# Working on veekun, need opinions



## Zhorken (May 18, 2012)

A lot of veekun's effect descriptions (mainly for moves and items) haven't been touched in ages, so not only are they outdated, but they're not written consistently in spots.  With B/W 2 coming out in Japan in a month, I figured, hey, I should totally overhaul _all_ the words.  Ability effects are already mine so why not.

Anyway, we need a consistent term for the stat boosts/drops that work on a scale of -6 to +6 stages and are accompanied by a shower of upward or downward lights and a sound effect, as opposed to just any old thing altering your stats.  A lot of things work with them specifically--Psych Up, Unaware, etc.  Right now we use "stat changes" or "stat modifiers" without being consistent.

And that's what I need opinions on!

I don't like "modifiers" because it sounds really vague, like it _should_ include stuff like Huge Power or Choice Bands.  "Changes" isn't perfect, but as far as I can see, it's a huge step up; it sounds a lot more like these... changes.  Like, there's an actual specific point where the stats _change_ here, not just some passive boost that's present.  I've met with mixed agreement, but my sample size is three people so far so that doesn't mean much.

Butterfree suggested "stat stages", which is very precise but a bit opaque--I'm worried that if people aren't already aware that those things work in stages, they just won't know _what_ we're talking about.  Like, "Is there some part of Pokémon mechanics I'm not aware of?  Evolution, level, stat stage???"

So yes, opinions would be lovely.  Suggestions for alternatives, too, if you have those.


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## 1. Luftballon (May 18, 2012)

changes ... lots of things change things, are those changes?

if three words isn't excessive, perhaps "temporary stat changes"; that feels a bit cumbersome, though. "stat changes" and then things that care about stages specifically talk about "stat change stages"? "change" seems like a better word to use than "modifier", in any case, though, yes.

if it's any consolation, nobody else seems to have been able to find a consistent way of doing it, either!


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## Music Dragon (May 18, 2012)

I'd go with "stat stages"; it really is the least ambiguous.


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## Spoon (May 19, 2012)

Stat points, maybe?

Edit: Or values? 
I think the games use stages.


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## RespectTheBlade (May 19, 2012)

Perhaps Stat Effect? I like res's suggestion of "temporary stat changes", too; just "stat changes" seems like it could be confused with the paralysis/poison/etc. kind of stat changes.


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## Mai (May 19, 2012)

"Stat stages" sounds a bit awkward, but I don't think people should have _too_ much trouble getting used to it. I'd say either that or "stat changes".


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## Superbird (May 19, 2012)

I agree with stat stages.


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## Zhorken (May 19, 2012)

Spoon said:


> Stat points, maybe?
> 
> Edit: Or values?
> I think the games use stages.


Yeah, the games use "stages", but they also use "base stats" to mean effort, so I'm not taking that as the final word.  "Stat points" makes me think of effort, and they're not points anyway; "stat values" makes me think of the actual stats, and that would peevee Eevee since, as he says, _everything's_ a value.  [size=-1](... That was an honest typo but I'm leaving it in.)[/size]

Never mind I meant that the games use "changes".  They don't use "stages" anywhere.



Mai said:


> "Stat stages" sounds a bit awkward, but I don't think people should have _too_ much trouble getting used to it. I'd say either that or "stat changes".


Yeah, that's true.  Especially when we get actual pages about game mechanics up and actually explain what the difference is.

EDIT:


RespectTheBlade said:


> Perhaps Stat Effect? I like res's suggestion of "temporary stat changes", too; just "stat changes" seems like it could be confused with the paralysis/poison/etc. kind of stat changes.


... help I am confused by this post

Those are called "_status_ changes" or "status effects".  ... More commonly "effects".  So "stat effect" is more confusable...


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## Cerberus87 (May 19, 2012)

I've always seen it used as "stat modifiers".

Also, I don't agree that you should count Choice Band as stat modifier because of the meaning of the word, since they operate differently.


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## Adriane (May 19, 2012)

Cerberus said:


> Also, I don't agree that you should count Choice Band as stat modifier because of the meaning of the word, since they operate differently.


Zhorken's not saying it actually _should_, but the term somewhat suggests that.


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## Kratos Aurion (May 19, 2012)

Eh, I don't think "stat stages" is terribly easy to confuse. If nothing else, the word "stage" is easier to imagine in the sentences you'd use in the descriptions.

"Raises the user's Attack by two (stat) stages."

In that context, at least, I feel it's unambiguous enough, and while most sites aren't totally consistent, a lot of them _do_ use that terminology, so it's not as though no one at all is used to hearing it. With "modifier" you'd have to word it like

"Increases the user's Attack modifier by two."

or something, which works but doesn't sound as simple. And maybe it's because I just woke up, but I'm having trouble picturing how you'd word this sort of thing with "stat changes" at all. Maybe it'd help if you could explain a bit more about how specifically you're going to be rewriting the various descriptions so it's a bit clearer how the term you're looking for will be used?

The only other thing I can think of right now that I'd sort of like is "stat levels", which is similar to stages and I've seen used elsewhere, but since the word "level" is obviously already used by the game there is potential for confusion there, I guess. You would have to use the full phrase "stat levels" each time, anyway, where with stages you could leave off the "stat" and still maintain clarity.


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## Zhorken (May 19, 2012)

Kratos Aurion said:


> Eh, I don't think "stat stages" is terribly easy to confuse. If nothing else, the word "stage" is easier to imagine in the sentences you'd use in the descriptions.
> 
> "Raises the user's Attack by two (stat) stages."
> 
> ...


We already use "stages" for _individual_ stages, like in your first example, but something like Psych Up would be "copies the target's stat changes/modifiers/whatever".  That's another reason argument for "stages"; if we're going to be using it _anyway_, we may as well use it in every grammatical context.  I've pretty much settled on "stat stages" though.

EDIT: Hmmm, it's still pretty awkward in places, e.g. Unaware: "This Pokémon ignores other Pokémon's stat stages..."


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## Kratos Aurion (May 19, 2012)

Combine the two?

"This Pokémon ignores changes/modifications to the other Pokémon's stat stages"?


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## Butterfree (May 20, 2012)

Kratos Aurion said:


> Combine the two?
> 
> "This Pokémon ignores changes/modifications to the other Pokémon's stat stages"?


I'm in favor of this. It seems pretty clear and nonawkward, and "stages" definitely helps imply things like Huge Power aren't counted.


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