# Cats (2019) Mafia



## JackPK

The moon shines brightly as the cats of the Jellicle tribe go about their nightly business in the barren city streets and alleyways. Throughout the empty town, handbills and video screens warn of the looming threat of Macavity, a criminal cat with devious intentions. What will this scoundrel's next big scheme be? The Jellicle cats can only shudder in anticipation...

*Night Zero has begun. Please submit your night actions. Everyone who has been pinged below should have received their role PM; if you have not, tell me ASAP.

Day One will begin May 30 at 3pm EST/7pm UTC.*



Spoiler: Game rules




The usual mafia rules: You may only post in the game thread during the day phase, dead players are not allowed to continue posting/private communications, etc.
No out-of-game-thread communication is permitted unless explicitly stated by me. I'll set up group PMs here on the forums for anyone allowed to privately communicate.
Please do not screencap your role PM or directly quote it at length. It's OK to quote small fragments or paraphrase it (or, of course, falsify small fragments or paraphrasings for a fakeclaim). If you don't know if a fragment counts as "small", try to err on the side of not directly quoting it (or just ask me).
In-thread votes will be accepted only when formatted in *bold*. You can also unvote or vote to abstain from lynching anyone. No hammering; at the day's deadline, votes will be tallied and the largest plurality of votes will be enacted. Ties will be broken by random number generator.
Please do not abuse the react feature. That includes living or dead players using reacts on old or recent posts for the purpose of surreptitiously conveying hints.






Spoiler: Player list and pings



@Butterfree
@Mawile
@Keldeo
@Herbe
@kyeugh
@mewtini
@Seshas
@IndigoEmmy
@kokorico
@I liek Squirtles
@Trebek
@rari_teh
@myuma
@M Plus 7
@Tofu
@Bluwiikoon
@Stryke
@Vipera Magnifica
@RedneckPhoenix 
@Superjolt 
@Mr. Ultracool


----------



## JackPK

The sun rises on the city, and with it, so too do the cats rise to start the day. As they congregate, though, they find one of their number missing: *Mawile*. An investigation of his usual prowling spot, an old chair perched on a garbage heap in a back alley, turns up no clues but a tattered handbill warning of Macavity... it's almost like Mawile disappeared into thin air!

*Mawile is dead. He was not scum.

Day One has begun. You may now post and discuss who to lynch today. Abstaining (no lynching) is allowed. Night One will begin June 2 at 3pm EST/7pm UTC*.



Spoiler: Pings and flips



@Butterfree
@Mawile - killed N0, *not scum*
@Keldeo
@Herbe
@kyeugh
@mewtini
@Seshas
@IndigoEmmy
@kokorico
@I liek Squirtles
@Trebek
@rari_teh
@myuma
@M Plus 7
@Tofu
@Bluwiikoon
@Stryke
@Vipera Magnifica
@RedneckPhoenix
@Superjolt
@Mr. Ultracool





Spoiler: Game summary so far



*N0
Mawile* was killed. He was *not scum*.


----------



## mewtini

good news guys


----------



## Bluwiikoon

Yo what up


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## Trebek

i have exceeded my expected lifespan by approximately three (3) minutes


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## Bluwiikoon

Same mood!! @ Trebek


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## kyeugh

mewtini said:


> good news guys


----------



## Trebek

kyeugh said:


> mewtini said:
> 
> 
> 
> good news guys
Click to expand...


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## mewtini

it feels like it's been so long since i've seen the opening of a mafia game. but that's only because it's been so long since i've seen the opening of a mafia game


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## mewtini

thanks tvt


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## Bluwiikoon

Ok but memes aside, this is the first mafia game I've played since uhhhhh 2006-2008ish? On the first vbulletin tcod, where I accidentally outed myself as lovers and died immediately the next night LOL.  I'm really excited and I hope we all have a fun time!!! And thus I also apologise if I don't understand some things due to lack of experience. I'll try my best!

Rip Mawile though  Too good for this world


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## Bluwiikoon

tfw no Mawile


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## mewtini

yeah i guess the whole experience-discussing song and dance might be good, since we have a fair number of new players?


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## Bluwiikoon

> An investigation of his usual prowling spot, an old chair perched on a garbage heap in a back alley, turns up no clues but a tattered handbill warning of Macavity... it's almost like Mawile disappeared into thin air!


Someone with more knowledge of the actual Cats lore able to explain some of this?  No body seems uhhhhh Mysterious


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## mewtini

i do not know lore beyond cats the musical but it reads like a vanilla scumkill to me


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## Bluwiikoon

Mawile's just taking a long vacation, guys! He's totally fine! ^^Denial who?


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## mewtini

but tbh i think i've just also been conditioned to be afraid of flavor speculation after Forum Revival TV Tropes Mafia Revival


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## Bluwiikoon

There are no murders in Ba Sing Se


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## kyeugh

Bluwiikoon said:


> An investigation of his usual prowling spot, an old chair perched on a garbage heap in a back alley, turns up no clues but a tattered handbill warning of Macavity... it's almost like Mawile disappeared into thin air!
> 
> 
> 
> Someone with more knowledge of the actual Cats lore able to explain some of this?  No body seems uhhhhh Mysterious
Click to expand...

i believe this clue was left behind by a disgruntled person with poor oral hygiene. mawile had the role of Racist Dentist, and refused to serve his aggressor despite their severe dental pain. the rotten-toothed fellow struck mawile in anger, unfortunately resulting in his death. the murderer left behind a warning against any others who refused to treat “m’cavity.”


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## mewtini

Spoiler: tierlist



*probably cats:*
Butterfree
Mawile
Keldeo
Herbe
kyeugh
mewtini
Seshas
IndigoEmmy
kokorico
I liek Squirtles
Trebek
rari_teh
myuma
M Plus 7
Tofu
Bluwiikoon
Stryke
Vipera Magnifica
RedneckPhoenix
Superjolt
Mr. Ultracool


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## Bluwiikoon

:3


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## kyeugh

can anyone confirm that there is a racist or otherwise bigoted/prejudiced dental technician in cats 2019?


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## Bluwiikoon

God, can't even get dental insurance in Catworld. What a cruel joke


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## Trebek

The true flavor plot twist is that the scum are the only ones who are actually cats. The rest are just LARPers who think theyre cats


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## kyeugh

Trebek said:


> The true flavor plot twist is that the scum are the only ones who are actually cats. The rest are just LARPers who think theyre cats


wow, i can’t believe cats 2019 is a microcosm for socialism.


----------



## mewtini

i can't believe


Mawile said:


> cats are fake


----------



## Bluwiikoon

The real cats were in our hearts all along!

They should probably, uh, not be in there


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## Trebek

youve heard of butterflies in your stomach, now get ready for cats in your heart! and also your stomach


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## Bluwiikoon

THE PAIN: TREMENDOUS


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## mewtini

lol ryan i should probably remember this but what is your mafia experience level


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## Trebek

mewtini said:


> lol ryan i should probably remember this but what is your mafia experience level


high in regards to town of salem-esque play, zero in regards to long term forum play


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## Bluwiikoon

I'm interested in knowing mewtini and qva's levels of expertise too! ^^ How many mafias have you guys mafiaed?


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## Herbe

omg you're fucking kidding me, mawile died???? my best friend and pal mawile is kill???????

guess I'll just have to hang out with my other best friend and pal, mewtini (when do we get to the part where you scumread me?)


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## mewtini

pretty much i've just got tvtropes + an MU game i played during tvtropes under my belt :>


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## Bluwiikoon

HERBE WE ARE

WE ARE JUST ANIMAL CROSSINGS BRO


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## mewtini

Herbe said:


> guess I'll just have to hang out with my other best friend and pal, mewtini (when do we get to the part where you scumread me?)


HERBEEEEEEEEEEEEEE


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## Bluwiikoon

Keldeoooooooo!


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## Herbe

Bluwiikoon said:


> HERBE WE ARE
> 
> WE ARE JUST ANIMAL CROSSINGS BRO


Bro. Bro we are literally just animals crossing.

Hi, I'm tangy, you might have noticed me as Extra #3 in Cats (2019)


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## Bluwiikoon

Herbe said:


> Bluwiikoon said:
> 
> 
> 
> HERBE WE ARE
> 
> WE ARE JUST ANIMAL CROSSINGS BRO
> 
> 
> 
> Bro. Bro we are literally just animals crossing.
> 
> Hi, I'm tangy, you might have noticed me as Extra #3 in Cats (2019)
Click to expand...

I'm Bob and the bugs whisper to me! :D My special talents include eating snacks and doing nothing


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## Herbe

anyway basically at any point in my life that i wasn't on TCoD mafia, I was probably on town of salem, so I'm mid-tier experienced I would say. idk if I'll be as good playing town as I am playing the Big Bad but we'll see!!!


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## Bluwiikoon

If you ARE town... 

No reason to distrust anyone as of yet tho! ^^


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## mewtini

Herbe said:


> Big Bad


ptsd


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## Herbe

listen, I've moved on from my days of evil!!! even replaced my edgydark black and white pfp with a positive one!!! come on its me tangy!!!!


----------



## Trebek

how anyone could mistrust someone with that pfp is beyond me


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## Bluwiikoon

Tangy would never!!


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## kyeugh

Bluwiikoon said:


> I'm interested in knowing mewtini and qva's levels of expertise too! ^^ How many mafias have you guys mafiaed?


hmmm i would say not more than half a dozen real games but i’ve flopped around helplessly or kind of just vibed in more than that


----------



## Bluwiikoon

Just vibin seems valid! ^^ I unno what to do on day 1 so I'm just uhhhh treating this like a Discord chat LOL

All we need is pictures of peoples' cats! And dozens of unrelated tangents!


----------



## Zori

obligatory lulToS



Herbe said:


> (when do we get to the part where you scumread me?)


right now


----------



## mewtini

is it bad if i admit that i am so clueless about what to do d1 that i'm just waiting for keldeoooo


----------



## kyeugh




----------



## Herbe

mewtini said:


> is it bad if i admit that i am so clueless about what to do d1 that i'm just waiting for keldeoooo


I'm right there with ya.
Keldeoooooo!!


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## Zori

flavor speculation would probably turn up results if I knew anything about the flavor


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## Bluwiikoon

KELDEOOOOOO


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## Zori

kyeugh said:


>


that is
slightly big


----------



## mewtini

its RVS time


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## kyeugh

it’s only been like forty five minutes, i don’t feel like going super aggro when we only have like five people in the thread... i think the best thing to do is wait for people to show up rn


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## Zori

mewtini said:


> its RVS time


rari v seshas?


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## Bluwiikoon

:o KITTY!!! QVA'S KITTY!!! _AAAAAAAAAAAAA_

Brain instantly melts when I see a cat


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## mewtini

just kidding. keldeooo ...


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## Trebek

Seshas said:


> obligatory lulToS


desperate times call for desperate measures


----------



## kyeugh

Seshas said:


> kyeugh said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> that is
> slightly big
Click to expand...

so


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## Bluwiikoon

Theory: Cats good

Sofd


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## Zori

kyeugh said:


> so


it detracts from the cuteness when the picture is too big to fit on my screen


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## Herbe

expanded feline


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## kyeugh

simply click the picture tbh


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## Bluwiikoon

Xenforooooo!!

(We probably need smaller fullwidth images in the css... maybe!)


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## Zori

kyeugh said:


> simply click the picture tbh


shhhhhhh
I am ignorant of forum features

in any case I'm feeling fairly confident in V!kyeugh


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## Zori

I keep on thinking that the "(2" in the title is a notification h


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## kyeugh

Seshas said:


> in any case I'm feeling fairly confident in V!kyeugh


this shall be your downfall


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## mewtini

Seshas said:


> in any case I'm feeling fairly confident in V!kyeugh


i thought this but also i'm going to admittedly be very  at her and herbe for a while looool


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## mewtini

Seshas said:


> I keep on thinking that the "(2" in the title is a notification h


SAME


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## Zori

kyeugh said:


> this shall be your downfall


I have a between 76 and 71% chance of being correct


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## Bluwiikoon

I'm excited for more people to show up! ^^ I set an alarm for game start and everything because I really didn't wanna miss it

Lemme tell ya, if I died n0 and didn't get to use the cool Bob images I saved I woulda been Sad :(


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## Herbe

everybody come join the Trusts Kyeugh party!!!!
we have brownies


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## Zori

Bluwiikoon said:


> I'm excited for more people to show up! ^^ I set an alarm for game start and everything because I really didn't wanna miss it
> 
> Lemme tell ya, if I died n0 and didn't get to use the cool Bob images I saved I woulda been Sad :(


Moral of the story
RIP Mawile


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## Herbe

somebody bring mawile back!!


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## mewtini

Bluwiikoon said:


> I set an alarm for game start and everything because I really didn't wanna miss it


i know omg. i was WATCHING the clock. i really just had to get that legendary post #3 in.
anyway i should probably stop giving latecomers extra posts to work through.,


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## Herbe

i have the strongest feeling that im gonna get mislynched like D2 lmao
my past sins haunt me


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## Bluwiikoon

Me and mewtini furiously refreshing the forum at game start


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## kyeugh

Bluwiikoon said:


> Lemme tell ya, if I died n0 and didn't get to use the cool Bob images I saved I woulda been Sad :(


god yeah i was really paranoid i would get shot n0 because of last game even though that doesn’t really make any sense


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## Herbe

mewtini said:


> anyway i should probably stop giving latecomers extra posts to work through.,


my entire job is giving latecomers more posts to work through
think we can hit page 60 in D1 again?


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## qenya

kyeugh said:


> i think the best thing to do is wait for people to show up rn


hello I am here. and super excited to be playing again! last few Days of tvt mafia really dragged on, huh

albeit less happy that Mawile is dead already. :c

nothing else in particular to add yet. agree that there doesn't seem anything unusual about the death flavour.


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## mewtini

Herbe said:


> think we can hit page 60 in D1 again?


we definitely CAN. but should we? time will tell. i cant wait for everyone else to show up.


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## Bluwiikoon

Spoiler: tierlist



Hardread everyone... as FREND!!!


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## kyeugh

greetings fellow chicken


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## Bluwiikoon

The chickens are honorary cats :D


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## kyeugh




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## Herbe

kyeugh said:


> View attachment 572


he is an Little Diffrent. Nothin wrong with that


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## Bluwiikoon

That cat chungy!!! Rounde


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## IndigoClaudia

Here i am.


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## Bluwiikoon

:3 IT'S INDIGOOOOO!!!!

I am really excited for game!!


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## IndigoClaudia

Same. I need a cat-avatar. BRB


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## IndigoClaudia

Well... i'm surprised i didn't have to dig down deep to find this.


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## Bluwiikoon

You know we're doing good because it's page 5 and we haven't yet devolved into cheezburger memes :D


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## IndigoClaudia

ngl i was about to put cat memes up right as you said that xD.


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## Bluwiikoon

The meme hivemind too stronk!


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## IndigoClaudia




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## IndigoClaudia

rip mawile.


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## Bluwiikoon

Things cats probably meme about:
-HAHA EAT RAT
-That ONE spot you just can't reach to groom
-Claws stuck
-MOTH IN HOUSE


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## IndigoClaudia

I can always ask my cat to confirm if this is true

He sleepy boy.


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## Bluwiikoon

He's gorgeous omg!!! :D I love black cats


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## IndigoClaudia

His name is Jupiter, named after the greek god of the universe. We mostly call him buddy, because he is my buddy. :3


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## Bluwiikoon

People psychoanalysing me based on my first 6 pages of posts: Bro he just
_He just never shuts up_


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## Bluwiikoon

I can't speak for all of TCoD but I am sending Jupiter telekinetic scritchies for sure :D


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## IndigoClaudia

_But does anyone shut up in mafia?_


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## IndigoClaudia

Bluwiikoon said:


> I can't speak for all of TCoD but I am sending Jupiter telekinetic scritchies for sure :D


Jupiter does quite enjoy those telekinetic scritchies. :D


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## Bluwiikoon

IndigoEmmy said:


> _But does anyone shut up in mafia?_


Only with an intervention! :D

(mafia pwease no stabby)


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## IndigoClaudia

Stabbying is no fun. Unless you are the mafia.


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## Butterfree

Dear god you guys now I know how the TVT revival mafia players felt


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## Bluwiikoon

We're just super excited! ^^


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## IndigoClaudia

I'm sorting through my computer of every cat related image i can find


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## IndigoClaudia

There! The perfect icon! A reference to something that nobody here will likely get, but half the internet is crazy about anyway.


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## Bluwiikoon

Actual discussion thoughts tho:

If it wasn't just a random kill, is it worth assuming Mawile was chosen as the mafia's target due to his good plays in TVTropes Mafia? Whilst also leaving other experienced players alone so as to frame them as scumreads due to said experience


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## IndigoClaudia

Who seems suspicious to all of y'all?

Blu and probably Mewtini don't seem super suspicious to me, but idk.


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## Bluwiikoon

I've no clear suspicions as of yet! Might be able to get more spicy reads as everybody filters in :D


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## mewtini

@ blu's post, i thought about that but think it might be a little too tinfoil-y for me to feel great about entertaining too much



IndigoEmmy said:


> Who seems suspicious to all of y'all?
> 
> Blu and probably Mewtini don't seem super suspicious to me, but idk.


can you talk more about why that is? or is it just Our Vibes

i don't think i have any thoughts about anyone yet, i feel pretty good about blu for now though


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## IndigoClaudia

It's the vibes.


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## Trebek

idk how i feel about attributing suspicion based off of what has basically been 6 pages of memeposting but Mawile being targeted could make sense?


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## mewtini

idek why i asked if it was anything other than vibes considering nothing's happened yet lmfao
continually reminding myself this is a NEW mafia game


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## Keldeo

Hi everyone, excited to be here! Haven't read a word of the thread and might not be able to until tomorrow ^_^"

Prewritten post: 

- Role claiming is probably not a good idea unless you have relevant information or you are about to be lynched. We don’t need to give the mafia more info than we need to.

- There are some people here, including me, who tend to make lots of posts or long posts and use mafia-specific terminology. If anything is confusing please speak up, miscommunication sucks.

- If you're town, posting your thoughts and ideas is good and helpful, even if other people already said them or you think you might be suspected for going against the consensus! I know that posting without worrying about if you might be wrong or if other people will think worse of you is a lot easier said than done. But if you don't post a lot, it's harder to get a read on you, and reading townies correctly makes it easier to find mafia.

/soapbox. Let's have a great game!


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## IndigoClaudia

There could be a cop around, so it's still reasonable to ask. Idk who'd reveal themselves as cop this early though?


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## Bluwiikoon

You're probably definitely right in that I shouldn't try to galaxy brain just yet, just uhhhh finding things to potentially speculate about for now ^^ Early stages!


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## mewtini

ftr i think a big shift in my thinking post-tvt/my MU game is that i realized i didn't really try hard enough to like, build a towncore, so i think that talking about people who seem _not as _suspicious is valuable as well hahahaha


Trebek said:


> idk how i feel about attributing suspicion based off of what has basically been 6 pages of memeposting but Mawile being targeted could make sense?


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## Bluwiikoon

If anyone is cop, definitely don't out yourself yet!! We need you, bro!

Accumulate the Evidence


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## Zori

You know I'm not mafia because I'm not cruel enough to kill someone before they have a chance to play the game they've been waiting for for weeks


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## mewtini

oh yeah, i'm also interested in why @.seshas reads skylar as villagery at this stage because i kinda feel it but i suspect they felt it more than me


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## Trebek

mewtini said:


> ftr i think a big shift in my thinking post-tvt/my MU game is that i realized i didn't really try hard enough to like, build a towncore, so i think that talking about people who seem _not as _suspicious is valuable as well hahahaha


yeah thats a valid point, i think im just too scared of reading too deeply into anything until someone more knowledgeable does it first


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## mewtini

hahahahha poor mawile indeed tbh :C


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## Zori

mewtini said:


> oh yeah, i'm also interested in why @.seshas reads skylar as villagery at this stage because i kinda feel it but i suspect they felt it more than me


Their entrance isn't as content-oriented as TvT


----------



## mewtini

Trebek said:


> yeah thats a valid point, i think im just too scared of reading too deeply into anything until someone more knowledgeable does it first


no! posting pure thoughts is good. infinitely better than waiting for other people to either a) hopefully say what you were thinking or b) potentially mislead you


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## mewtini

Seshas said:


> Their entrance isn't as content-oriented as TvT


HA yeah i was reading her entrance here and her tvt entrance side-by-side tbqh. i agree. wasn't sure if it was maybe just because a lot more people were talking content there than here, but i think she was a little ringleadery in it in tvt ...


----------



## IndigoClaudia

Seshas said:


> mewtini said:
> 
> 
> 
> oh yeah, i'm also interested in why @.seshas reads skylar as villagery at this stage because i kinda feel it but i suspect they felt it more than me
> 
> 
> 
> Their entrance isn't as content-oriented as TvT
Click to expand...





Spoiler: Don't read if you are mafia



I feel like saying "IS SESHAS COP!!??!" But then the mafia would get suspicious.








THIS IS A JOKE


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## Zori

the react notifications are happening too fast I can't keep up


----------



## IndigoClaudia

Seshas said:


> the react notifications are happening too fast I can't keep up


same here actually


----------



## Zori

IndigoEmmy said:


> Seshas said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> mewtini said:
> 
> 
> 
> oh yeah, i'm also interested in why @.seshas reads skylar as villagery at this stage because i kinda feel it but i suspect they felt it more than me
> 
> 
> 
> Their entrance isn't as content-oriented as TvT
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Don't read if you are mafia
> 
> 
> 
> I feel like saying "IS SESHAS COP!!??!" But then the mafia would get suspicious.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> THIS IS A JOKE
Click to expand...

If I was cop I wouldn't check anyone N0 because I'm not cruel enough to blast a mafia out of a game theyve been waiting weeks for


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## Bluwiikoon

TCoD Reacts to: Cat Mafia posts!

THIS EPISODE: cat


----------



## Trebek

Seshas said:


> If I was cop I wouldn't check anyone N0 because I'm not cruel enough to blast a mafia out of a game theyve been waiting weeks for


truly a kindred spirit


----------



## IndigoClaudia

Seshas said:


> IndigoEmmy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Seshas said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> mewtini said:
> 
> 
> 
> oh yeah, i'm also interested in why @.seshas reads skylar as villagery at this stage because i kinda feel it but i suspect they felt it more than me
> 
> 
> 
> Their entrance isn't as content-oriented as TvT
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Don't read if you are mafia
> 
> 
> 
> I feel like saying "IS SESHAS COP!!??!" But then the mafia would get suspicious.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> THIS IS A JOKE
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> If I was cop I wouldn't check anyone N0 because I'm not cruel enough to blast a mafia out of a game theyve been waiting weeks for
Click to expand...

I'll remember this statement if you are cop and the mafia wins and you will never forget it seshas.


----------



## Zori




----------



## IndigoClaudia

Seshas said:


>


What?
*Seshas is evolving.*


----------



## Zori

If I was a Doctor tho I'd definitely use my action N0


----------



## Zori

Emmy
Serious question:


Spoiler: Serious Question for Emmy



Are you mafia?


----------



## IndigoClaudia

Now we just have to wait for @rari_teh to evolve.


----------



## Herbe

if i had a night action i'd definitely target mewtini n0
this will be fact in all future TCoD games, for we now have a Diet Rivalry


----------



## IndigoClaudia

Seshas said:


> Emmy
> Serious question:
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Serious Question for Emmy
> 
> 
> 
> Are you mafia?


No.


----------



## mewtini

ooh ooh let's play the cop cover game

fr though - i will note that i'm trying my Hardest not to read _too_ much into how people are playing here versus how they played in tvt (like, emmy's posting is markedly different - not in a bad way necessarily) because i feel like a lot of us, esp those who've only played these two games pretty much, are likely to redefine our metas. well, at least i know that i am
i will probably fail at restraining myself every now and then though



Herbe said:


> if i had a night action i'd definitely target mewtini n0
> this will be fact in all future TCoD games, for we now have a Diet Rivalry


herbe are you saying you're going to immediately kill me if you roll maf in tarot
its not a rivalry.... we are Friend


----------



## IndigoClaudia

IndigoEmmy said:


> Seshas said:
> 
> 
> 
> Emmy
> Serious question:
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Serious Question for Emmy
> 
> 
> 
> Are you mafia?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No.
Click to expand...

Also it's sad because i was hoping i would be mafia for this game and i obviously can't during snom mafia. Maybe during AC mafia?


----------



## Trebek

Herbe said:


> if i had a night action i'd definitely target mewtini n0


i second this


----------



## IndigoClaudia

Trebek said:


> Herbe said:
> 
> 
> 
> if i had a night action i'd definitely target mewtini n0
> 
> 
> 
> i second this
Click to expand...

I third this. Mewtini would be fun to target.
Also it's just fun to jump on random "buses" just because i can.


----------



## Zori

N0 *Emmy*
This is my contribution to Cop CoverTM


----------



## Bluwiikoon

Bro what if... hwat if........ we just don't lynch anyone and the mafia agrees not to stabby anyone and we just sing and dance and be joyous :D Imagine!



Spoiler



Me when I get stabby'd the next night:


----------



## Zori

Bluwiikoon said:


> Bro what if... hwat if........ we just don't lynch anyone and the mafia agrees not to stabby anyone and we just sing and dance and be joyous :D Imagine!
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler
> 
> 
> 
> Me when I get stabby'd the next night: View attachment 575


I think the mafia already blasted that out of the water
Mawile


----------



## mewtini

Seshas said:


> N0 *Emmy*
> This is my contribution to Cop CoverTM


:D if i'm cop n0 green seshas


----------



## IndigoClaudia

Bluwiikoon said:


> Bro what if... hwat if........ we just don't lynch anyone and the mafia agrees not to stabby anyone and we just sing and dance and be joyous :D Imagine!
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler
> 
> 
> 
> Me when I get stabby'd the next night: View attachment 575


It's good in theory. I don't know how well it would actually play out.


----------



## mewtini

IndigoEmmy said:


> I third this. Mewtini would be fun to target.


g-guys wtf. im scared


----------



## Zori

Seshas said:


> N0 *Emmy*
> This is my contribution to Cop CoverTM


definitely not because I feel guilty for tunneling her in TvT


----------



## IndigoClaudia

This is my contribution to Cop CoverTM:

I have no idea yet 
but Blu and Mewtini have good vibes.


----------



## Bluwiikoon

Seshas said:


> N0 *Emmy*
> This is my contribution to Cop CoverTM


If I'm cop, N0 Keldeo


----------



## IndigoClaudia

Seshas said:


> Seshas said:
> 
> 
> 
> N0 *Emmy*
> This is my contribution to Cop CoverTM
> 
> 
> 
> definitely not because I feel guilty for tunneling her in TvT
Click to expand...

Let's be honest you probably would have won if you didn't kill me. :3 plus i'm bad at lying.


----------



## rari_teh

wooooo finally caught up!! how are you doing my good clowder? :D


----------



## IndigoClaudia

Bluwiikoon said:


> Seshas said:
> 
> 
> 
> N0 *Emmy*
> This is my contribution to Cop CoverTM
> 
> 
> 
> If I'm cop, N0 Keldeo
Click to expand...

*Keldeo, Mewtini, Bluwiiiiiiiiikoon, Seshas, Me*


----------



## kyeugh

i'm a cop.  i know it seems suspicious to counterclaim this late, but i wanted seshas to run their course as long as possible to maximize spew.  here are my results:

n0 kyeugh: stupid fucking dumbass

with this in mind, i'm going to park my vote on *kyeugh*, and i suggest others do the same. if i'm right, it'll be final 3 tomorrow, and we can go for seshas due to their fake copclaim. gg y'all, it's been really fun playing with you guys (as town this time) and solving this puzzle together.


----------



## IndigoClaudia

rari_teh said:


> wooooo finally caught up!! how are you doing my good clowder? :D


How about a glaring? We don't all trust we aren't the mafia.

Glaring definition: A group of cats that don't trust eachother.


----------



## IndigoClaudia

kyeugh said:


> i'm a cop.  i know it seems suspicious to counterclaim this late, but i wanted seshas to run their course as long as possible to maximize spew.  here are my results:
> 
> n0 kyeugh: stupid fucking dumbass
> 
> with this in mind, i'm going to park my vote on *kyeugh*, and i suggest others do the same. if i'm right, it'll be final 3 tomorrow, and we can go for seshas due to their fake copclaim. gg y'all, it's been really fun playing with you guys (as town this time) and solving this puzzle together.


Seems legit.


----------



## mewtini

kyeugh said:


> with this in mind, i'm going to park my vote on *kyeugh*,


skylar is jester confirmed


----------



## kyeugh

mewtini said:


> kyeugh said:
> 
> 
> 
> with this in mind, i'm going to park my vote on *kyeugh*,
> 
> 
> 
> skylar is jester confirmed
Click to expand...

fuck.  good point.

*unvote*


----------



## IndigoClaudia

mewtini said:


> kyeugh said:
> 
> 
> 
> with this in mind, i'm going to park my vote on *kyeugh*,
> 
> 
> 
> skylar is jester confirmed
Click to expand...

Yeah i was kinda getting that. Don't lynch her. Or maybe thats what she wants us to think 

EEEEEHHHH Mafia is so hard sometimes.


----------



## mewtini

i was kidding to be clear
also my earlier cop cover joke was just me heart-eyesing seshas for joining me on the train. if i'm cop n0 green rari :p


----------



## Butterfree

For the record I’m out of town for the weekend so my presence for this day will be very limited and written on my phone.

If I’m cop, I checked kyeugh as not mafia N0.


----------



## Bluwiikoon

Kyeugh is only joke!

(I hope Kyeugh is only joke because ma'am please don't self-depreciate ;o; QVA IS GOODE)


----------



## rari_teh

Bluwiikoon said:


> An investigation of his usual prowling spot, an old chair perched on a garbage heap in a back alley, turns up no clues but a tattered handbill warning of Macavity... it's almost like Mawile disappeared into thin air!
> 
> 
> 
> Someone with more knowledge of the actual Cats lore able to explain some of this?  No body seems uhhhhh Mysterious
Click to expand...

I haven’t watched the movie or the musical, but I’ve read the Wikipedia page and I think he’s likely to be Gus


kyeugh said:


>


omg your cat looks a lot like mine about eight years ago


Seshas said:


> in any case I'm feeling fairly confident in V!kyeugh


ptsd²


----------



## Zori

Brief Explanation of Cop CoverTM

There's probably a CopTM in the game
We don't want Mafia to know who the CopTM is
But if mafia finds them before they claim, we lose their results
That would be BadTrademark Pending

Solution: Everyone pretends they are the CopTM and gives results so when the actual CopTM dies, we know all the results they had
BUT
If any CopTM gives a wrong result, Mafia knows instantly they are not the CopTM
So don't give out checks randomly, or that would be SuboptimalTM


----------



## IndigoClaudia

Seshas said:


> Brief Explanation of Cop CoverTM
> 
> There's probably a CopTM in the game
> We don't want Mafia to know who the CopTM is
> But if mafia finds them before they claim, we lose their results
> That would be BadTrademark Pending
> 
> Solution: Everyone pretends they are the CopTM and gives results so when the actual CopTM dies, we know all the results they had
> BUT
> If any CopTM gives a wrong result, Mafia knows instantly they are not the CopTM
> So don't give out checks randomly, or that would be SuboptimalTM


Guys what if all the town if cops and all the mafia is evil mafia cops and the mafia don't know who the mafia is.


----------



## Zori

IndigoEmmy said:


> Guys what if all the town if cops and all the mafia is evil mafia cops and the mafia don't know who the mafia is.


There once was a game where everyone got to chose their roles after being sent their alignment
someone legitimately chose to be a Mafia Cop


----------



## IndigoClaudia

Seshas said:


> BadTrademark Pending


Seshas sorry to get back to you so late but Bad is already copyrighted by the BadTM  Company.


----------



## kyeugh

cop cover is good.  i think the odds that there is actually just a normal cop in this game are pretty high.  i know i was kind of against it last game, but that's because i thought the presence of a cop wasn't necessarily a given, and also i was trying to kill you all
if i'm cop then n0 mewtini green


----------



## Zori

kyeugh said:


> and also i was trying to kill you all


fair enough


----------



## mewtini

kyeugh said:


> and also i was trying to kill you all


;___;


----------



## IndigoClaudia

Seshas said:


> kyeugh said:
> 
> 
> 
> and also i was trying to kill you all
> 
> 
> 
> fair enough
Click to expand...

Seshas is still traumatized kyeugh don't bring that up in his presence XD


----------



## IndigoClaudia

mewtini said:


> kyeugh said:
> 
> 
> 
> and also i was trying to kill you all
> 
> 
> 
> ;___;
Click to expand...

I was TRYING to tell you. :P


----------



## rari_teh

I gotta say, when I was cop in TVT I was super antsy about covering, esp when very few people posted covers. I’m glad that pretty much everybody is covering now tbh
If I’m cop N0 *Seshas* btw


----------



## Zori

IndigoEmmy said:


> Seshas is still traumatized kyeugh don't bring that up in his presence XD


Hey it only took me ~30 hours


----------



## Zori

Seshas said:


> IndigoEmmy said:
> 
> 
> 
> Seshas is still traumatized kyeugh don't bring that up in his presence XD
> 
> 
> 
> Hey it only took me ~30 hours
Click to expand...

to get over that


----------



## IndigoClaudia

rari_teh said:


> I gotta say, when I was cop in TVT I was super antsy about covering, esp when very few people posted covers. I’m glad that pretty much everybody is covering now tbh
> If I’m cop N0 *Seshas* btw


It makes the actual cops feel more secure i'm sure. But then the mafia could also interfere.

*AND WE DON'T WANT THAT.*


----------



## Bluwiikoon

Deploy pats to Seshas and mewtini ;o;


----------



## qenya

mewtini said:


> fr though - i will note that i'm trying my Hardest not to read _too_ much into how people are playing here versus how they played in tvt (like, emmy's posting is markedly different - not in a bad way necessarily) because i feel like a lot of us, esp those who've only played these two games pretty much, are likely to redefine our metas. well, at least i know that i am


that, yes. also the fact that, in tvt, almost nobody knew each other already - now we're mostly all a bit more familiar with each other and probably less guarded. would be surprised if >50% of us had similar metas to last game!

If I'm cop, N0 mewtini green.


----------



## Zori

IndigoEmmy said:


> rari_teh said:
> 
> 
> 
> I gotta say, when I was cop in TVT I was super antsy about covering, esp when very few people posted covers. I’m glad that pretty much everybody is covering now tbh
> If I’m cop N0 *Seshas* btw
> 
> 
> 
> It makes the actual cops feel more secure i'm sure. But then the mafia could also interfere.
> 
> *AND WE DON'T WANT THAT.*
Click to expand...

Solution:
Don't make your decisions based on who the CopTM results


----------



## mewtini

IndigoEmmy said:


> It makes the actual cops feel more secure i'm sure. But then the mafia could also interfere.


it doesn't really matter if mafia interferes though



Bluwiikoon said:


> Deploy pats to Seshas and mewtini ;o;


v appreciated <3


----------



## kyeugh

IndigoEmmy said:


> rari_teh said:
> 
> 
> 
> I gotta say, when I was cop in TVT I was super antsy about covering, esp when very few people posted covers. I’m glad that pretty much everybody is covering now tbh
> If I’m cop N0 *Seshas* btw
> 
> 
> 
> It makes the actual cops feel more secure i'm sure. But then the mafia could also interfere.
> 
> *AND WE DON'T WANT THAT.*
Click to expand...

i don't think the mafia would ever be so brazen tbh.  probably scum will just claim green on people they know to be innocent
anyway if i'm cop n0 indigoemmy


----------



## IndigoClaudia

IndigoEmmy said:


> Bluwiiiiiiiiikoon





kyeugh said:


> n0 kyeugh: stupid fucking dumbass





IndigoEmmy said:


> kyeugh said:
> 
> 
> 
> i'm a cop.  i know it seems suspicious to counterclaim this late, but i wanted seshas to run their course as long as possible to maximize spew.  here are my results:
> 
> n0 kyeugh: stupid fucking dumbass
> 
> with this in mind, i'm going to park my vote on *kyeugh*, and i suggest others do the same. if i'm right, it'll be final 3 tomorrow, and we can go for seshas due to their fake copclaim. gg y'all, it's been really fun playing with you guys (as town this time) and solving this puzzle together.
> 
> 
> 
> Seems legit.
Click to expand...




kyeugh said:


> mewtini said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> kyeugh said:
> 
> 
> 
> with this in mind, i'm going to park my vote on *kyeugh*,
> 
> 
> 
> skylar is jester confirmed
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> fuck.  good point.
> 
> *unvote*
Click to expand...




Seshas said:


> Brief Explanation of Cop CoverTM
> 
> There's probably a CopTM in the game
> We don't want Mafia to know who the CopTM is
> But if mafia finds them before they claim, we lose their results
> That would be BadTrademark Pending
> 
> Solution: Everyone pretends they are the CopTM and gives results so when the actual CopTM dies, we know all the results they had
> BUT
> If any CopTM gives a wrong result, Mafia knows instantly they are not the CopTM
> So don't give out checks randomly, or that would be SuboptimalTM





IndigoEmmy said:


> Guys what if all the town if cops and all the mafia is evil mafia cops and the mafia don't know who the mafia is.





IndigoEmmy said:


> Seshas said:
> 
> 
> 
> BadTrademark Pending
> 
> 
> 
> Seshas sorry to get back to you so late but Bad is already copyrighted by the BadTM  Company.
Click to expand...




Bluwiikoon said:


> Deploy pats to Seshas and mewtini ;o;


Hardcore memery


----------



## Bluwiikoon

Earlygame is all just breadcrumbs anyway, right? It only uhhhhh leads to big reads depending on later deaths and revelations probably :D


----------



## Zori

kyeugh said:


> n0 indigoemmy


there ain't room for the two of us in this town


----------



## kyeugh

Bluwiikoon said:


> Earlygame is all just breadcrumbs anyway, right? It only uhhhhh leads to big reads depending on later deaths and revelations probably :D


i think you can get places by pushing people really hard for no reason on d1 tbh!  but i don't really feel like playing this game like that personally tbh.


----------



## Zori

Bluwiikoon said:


> Earlygame is all just breadcrumbs anyway, right? It only uhhhhh leads to big reads depending on later deaths and revelations probably :D


Usually until someone comes out with a legitimate scumread


----------



## IndigoClaudia

kyeugh said:


> n0 indigoemmy


This is false. 
This is false. 
This is false.


----------



## Bluwiikoon

When I had a cat, pushing her just made her not want to move even more tbh  She would sit on my pillow!!! I had to awkwardly scrunch into my bed!


----------



## Zori

IndigoEmmy said:


> kyeugh said:
> 
> 
> 
> n0 indigoemmy
> 
> 
> 
> This is false.
> This is false.
> This is false.
Click to expand...

2 Truths and a Lie?


----------



## IndigoClaudia

So wait i know absolutely no context to Cats (2019) mafia. Anyone care to explain what it is other than just mafia? WHAT IS THE MOVIE CATS?!

I didn't watch it cos' i heard it was bad.


----------



## IndigoClaudia

Bluwiikoon said:


> When I had a cat, pushing her just made her not want to move even more tbh  She would sit on my pillow!!! I had to awkwardly scrunch into my bed!


My cat does this all the time.


----------



## mewtini

cats is a film adaptation of the famous andrew lloyd webber musical by the same name :> the movie is indeed, apparently, bad. we are screening it today though (?!)


----------



## IndigoClaudia

Seshas said:


> IndigoEmmy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> kyeugh said:
> 
> 
> 
> n0 indigoemmy
> 
> 
> 
> This is false.
> This is false.
> This is false.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 2 Truths and a Lie?
Click to expand...

3 truths and a lie. The lie is not here in that post. Nor any other posts, for that matter.


----------



## Trebek

After learning the ins and outs of cop cover  TM  
if im cop n0 *herbe*

my brain is running moderately slower than a 2005 dell laptop atm


----------



## IndigoClaudia

mewtini said:


> cats is a film adaptation of the famous andrew lloyd webber musical by the same name :> the movie is indeed, apparently, bad. we are screening it today though (?!)


I saw a tiny bit of the musical. But i don't know the movie. I assume cats mafia is made for the meme.


----------



## mewtini

i'm so glad everyone's doing cover now though
rari was right that it was terrifying during tvt lol. esp because i don't think anyone knew what tf it was


----------



## IndigoClaudia

We should just put out whatever random garbage reads just to make sure the cops feel happy :3

Also i think that Kyeugh is town she's just trying to mess with us so i'm not gonna trust her all game. Sorry.


----------



## mewtini

IndigoEmmy said:


> Also i think that Kyeugh is town she's just trying to mess with us so i'm not gonna trust her all game. Sorry.


i'm confused by this


----------



## IndigoClaudia

mewtini said:


> IndigoEmmy said:
> 
> 
> 
> Also i think that Kyeugh is town she's just trying to mess with us so i'm not gonna trust her all game. Sorry.
> 
> 
> 
> i'm confused by this
Click to expand...

I mean she's just Sh*tposting. I don't think she's mafia tho


----------



## Zori

Trebek is a villager


----------



## Bluwiikoon

Bro imagine if Eifie was here  The mindgames!!

Sometimes I still hear their voice on the wind


----------



## IndigoClaudia

Bluwiikoon said:


> Bro imagine if Eifie was here  The mindgames!!
> 
> Sometimes I still hear their voice on the wind


We don't need kyeugh and Eifie in one game.

_*Shudders*_


----------



## Trebek

Seshas said:


> Trebek is a villager


:o


----------



## Zori

LOL I forgot M+7 signed up for this


----------



## mewtini

i miss queen eifie so much


Seshas said:


> Trebek is a villager


yeah?


IndigoEmmy said:


> I mean she's just Sh*tposting. I don't think she's mafia tho


i guess. i actually don't mind her posting, i think most of us are kind of memeing around since it's so early in d1 - i was mostly like ?! when you said you wouldn't trust her


----------



## IndigoClaudia

I need to look at everyone who's here. brb


----------



## mewtini

Seshas said:


> LOL I forgot M+7 signed up for this


the fact that you and eifie both reacted so strongly to m+7 is scaring me


----------



## Bluwiikoon

I'm gonna uhhh check my blood sugar status (pesky diabetes!) and get a drink and stuff, ping me if you need me for anything? :D

Remember to hydrate, TCoD! Eat food and drink beverage! Go to the bathroom!


----------



## Zori

Trebek said:


> yeah thats a valid point, i think im just too scared of reading too deeply into anything until someone more knowledgeable does it first


This post shows a legitimate solving mindset


----------



## mewtini

however: emmy disliking skylar's shitposting makes me think emmy villa?


----------



## IndigoClaudia

mewtini said:


> i was mostly like ?! when you said you wouldn't trust her


I mean as of rn i wouldn't trust her.

Plus she has a history of annihilating entire towns.


----------



## IndigoClaudia

Bluwiikoon said:


> Remember to hydrate, TCoD! Eat food and drink beverage! Go to the bathroom!


ITS MELON TIME!

*Eats cantalope*


----------



## Zori

mewtini said:


> Seshas said:
> 
> 
> 
> LOL I forgot M+7 signed up for this
> 
> 
> 
> the fact that you and eifie both reacted so strongly to m+7 is scaring me
Click to expand...

I've never actually played with them tbh


----------



## Zori

No posts in 1 minute? This game might actually have a bearable number of pages!


----------



## Trebek

Seshas said:


> This post shows a legitimate solving mindset


im glad thats how it came across  im trying to make sure to not drag over unideal ToS habits


----------



## mewtini

Seshas said:


> This post shows a legitimate solving mindset


gotcha! cool. agree


----------



## IndigoClaudia

Seshas said:


> No posts in 1 minute? This game might actually have a bearable number of pages!


I was off eating can*t*elope. 

And then i watched a ferret video sorry everyone i know i was supposed to watch cat videos instead. D:


----------



## kyeugh

what is m+7


----------



## Trebek

kyeugh said:


> what is m+7


m + 6 + 1


----------



## IndigoClaudia

Trebek said:


> kyeugh said:
> 
> 
> 
> what is m+7
> 
> 
> 
> m + 6 + 1
Click to expand...

Also, M + 4 + 3


----------



## I liek Squirtles

I've just come on right now, twelve pages,, my two cents are that the mafia is mr mistoffelees due to the thin air thing. Will update once I make it through the other 11 pages


----------



## Zori

kyeugh said:


> what is m+7


----------



## mewtini

kyeugh said:


> what is m+7


one of the players. they signed up and eifie was like "keldeo what have you unleashed"


----------



## kyeugh

Trebek said:


> kyeugh said:
> 
> 
> 
> what is m+7
> 
> 
> 
> m + 6 + 1
Click to expand...


fr though i laughed. unscheduled mirth


----------



## IndigoClaudia

mewtini said:


> kyeugh said:
> 
> 
> 
> what is m+7
> 
> 
> 
> one of the players. they signed up and eifie was like "keldeo what have you unleashed"
Click to expand...

Eifie can read the future y'know. She knows what havoc M+7 will cause.


----------



## Zori

kyeugh said:


> fr though i laughed. unscheduled mirth


someone needs to use reacts more


----------



## IndigoClaudia

kyeugh said:


> Trebek said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> kyeugh said:
> 
> 
> 
> what is m+7
> 
> 
> 
> m + 6 + 1
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> View attachment 576
> fr though i laughed. unscheduled mirth
Click to expand...

Kyeugh you broke a rule.

Cat memes only


----------



## Zori

Seshas said:


>


oh wait that's M-7
my bad


----------



## IndigoClaudia

IndigoEmmy said:


> kyeugh said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Trebek said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> kyeugh said:
> 
> 
> 
> what is m+7
> 
> 
> 
> m + 6 + 1
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> View attachment 576
> fr though i laughed. unscheduled mirth
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Kyeugh you broke a rule.
> 
> Cat memes only
Click to expand...


Try this.

(This is bad i know but it follows the rules)


----------



## IndigoClaudia

does anyone wants to see a picture of my cat sleeping in a chair?

All you need is to roleclaim as mafia and give your exact role. 
We do not claim any responsibilities of you getting lynched. Sorry.

So please roleclaim today for cute cats!


----------



## I liek Squirtles

Ok I'm caught up! 10 pages of shitpost and 2 of actual Content™️.


----------



## mewtini

concept. tropekiller role, but with the names of characters in _Cats (2019)_


----------



## I liek Squirtles

Also if folks need help with cats lore I can help


----------



## mewtini

(i joke. i thought about it when ils mentioned his guess at the mistoffelees kill)


----------



## IndigoClaudia

I liek Squirtles said:


> Also if folks need help with cats lore I can help


How many cats are in the movie cats?


----------



## Bluwiikoon

Damn Indigo I wish I could fulfill your cute cat sleeping in a chair offer  Alas


----------



## I liek Squirtles

IndigoEmmy said:
			
		

> How many cats are in the movie cats?


At least five.


----------



## IndigoClaudia

Bluwiikoon said:


> Damn Indigo I wish I could fulfill your cute cat sleeping in a chair offer  Alas


You aren't mafia, huh. I might be able to make an exception.

EDIT: the second i go to take a photo he runs out of said chair. Cats, Amirite?


----------



## Trebek

IndigoEmmy said:


> How many cats are in the movie cats?


2019 its right there in the thread title


----------



## IndigoClaudia

Trebek said:


> IndigoEmmy said:
> 
> 
> 
> How many cats are in the movie cats?
> 
> 
> 
> 2019 its right there in the thread title
Click to expand...

Subtle.


----------



## Bluwiikoon

To update on my prior post:
Blood sugar status: Really good!
Beverage status: Got

We hydratin now boys!!! Real gamer hours!


----------



## Zori

I am *The Chessmaster*, my power is *Kansas City Shuffle. *Each night, I can manipulate a person, roleblocking them and gaining a use of their ability. Additionally, I use the first role I steal as a shield for investigative and role-swapping abilities.
I targeted Odie_Pie N0, and I used their role as my shield, while getting their info. My shield is now the Crazy Prepared role.


----------



## IndigoClaudia

THE ONLY PEOPLE WHO READ THIS ARE PEOPLE IN DARK MODE. OR YOU COULD HIGHLIGHT IT I GUESS!


----------



## Zori

IndigoEmmy said:


> THE ONLY PEOPLE WHO READ THIS ARE PEOPLE IN DARK MODE. OR YOU COULD HIGHLIGHT IT I GUESS!


I ruined your master plan


----------



## Bluwiikoon

Suddenly I can't read


----------



## IndigoClaudia

Bluwiikoon said:


> Suddenly I can't read


This is good. Make sure not to be able to read Seshas's quote.


----------



## qenya

I liek Squirtles said:


> Also if folks need help with cats lore I can help


Oh yes please! I have the original poetry book but never seen the musical or the film, and probably won't make it to VM's screening tonight

you say Mr Mistoffelees is likely to be mafia - and presumably also Macavity (there never was a Cat of such deceitfulness and suavity!) - any other ideas? (you or anyone else)


----------



## rari_teh

Bluwiikoon said:


> Suddenly I can't read


----------



## Bluwiikoon

Any thoughts on whether the uhhhh old geezer cat would have had a specific role? Someone speculated that Mawile may be the geezer due to the flavor text (terrible at remembering names, I'm sorry!)


----------



## Mr. Ultracool

So, are we doing Hypocop? If I were Cop, I'd have visited I liek Squirtles on N0 and found out that he was town.


----------



## IndigoClaudia

kokorico said:


> screening tonight
> screening tonight
> screening tonight
> screening tonight
> *SCREENING TONIGHT*


elaborate pleeze?


----------



## IndigoClaudia

Mr. Ultracool said:


> So, are we doing Hypocop? If I were Cop, I'd have visited I liek Squirtles on N0 and found out that he was town.


But what if you found out he was mafia?


----------



## mewtini

IndigoEmmy said:


> elaborate pleeze?


look at the last few posts in the signup thread!


----------



## qenya

IndigoEmmy said:


> kokorico said:
> 
> 
> 
> screening tonight
> screening tonight
> screening tonight
> screening tonight
> *SCREENING TONIGHT*
> 
> 
> 
> elaborate pleeze?
Click to expand...

here you are!: https://forums.dragonflycave.com/threads/cats-2019-mafia-signups.18617/page-4#post-681308


----------



## I liek Squirtles

kokorico said:


> I liek Squirtles said:
> 
> 
> 
> Also if folks need help with cats lore I can help
> 
> 
> 
> Oh yes please! I have the original poetry book but never seen the musical or the film, and probably won't make it to VM's screening tonight
> 
> you say Mr Mistoffelees is likely to be mafia - and presumably also Macavity (there never was a Cat of such deceitfulness and suavity!) - any other ideas? (you or anyone else)
Click to expand...

Outside of Macavity I doubt any cat was purposely chosen to be mafia, simply because none of them are explictly evil (besides Macavity himself). I only think Mistoffelees is mafia because of the flavor text. We could easily be seeing mafia Victoria or Jennyanydots and I wouldn't be surprised.


----------



## IndigoClaudia

mewtini said:


> IndigoEmmy said:
> 
> 
> 
> elaborate pleeze?
> 
> 
> 
> look at the last few posts in the signup thread!
Click to expand...

m'afraid i can't make it. :C ahh well. i'm not missing out on anything amazing.


----------



## Mr. Ultracool

[/QUOTE]

But what if you found out he was mafia?
[/QUOTE]
Then I'd simultaneously realize that I wasn't the cop after all.


----------



## Bluwiikoon

Idk what my government assigned cat does in the movie but they seem cute


----------



## rari_teh

I liek Squirtles said:


> kokorico said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I liek Squirtles said:
> 
> 
> 
> Also if folks need help with cats lore I can help
> 
> 
> 
> Oh yes please! I have the original poetry book but never seen the musical or the film, and probably won't make it to VM's screening tonight
> 
> you say Mr Mistoffelees is likely to be mafia - and presumably also Macavity (there never was a Cat of such deceitfulness and suavity!) - any other ideas? (you or anyone else)
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Outside of Macavity I doubt any cat was purposely chosen to be mafia, simply because none of them are explictly evil (besides Macavity himself). I only think Mistoffelees is mafia because of the flavor text. We could easily be seeing mafia Victoria or Jennyanydots and I wouldn't be surprised.
Click to expand...

There’s also that Taylor Swift cat that was kind of like Macavity’s sidekick in the movie from what I remember of the Wikipedia plot summary


----------



## IndigoClaudia

But what if you found out he was mafia?
[/QUOTE]
Then I'd simultaneously realize that I wasn't the cop after all.
[/QUOTE]

Does this mean you are the cop?


----------



## IndigoClaudia

Btw nobody is allowed to quote that last post.


----------



## Mr. Ultracool

Wasn't that Grizzabella cat also important? I just watched up to the "Mungojerry and Rumpleteazer"- Number in music class once


----------



## IndigoClaudia

Heres some fun cat noises to lighten the mood


----------



## Zori

IndigoEmmy said:


> But what if you found out he was mafia?


Then I'd simultaneously realize that I wasn't the cop after all.
[/QUOTE]

Does this mean you are the cop?
[/QUOTE]
[/QUOTE]


----------



## Bluwiikoon

IndigoEmmy said:


> Btw nobody is allowed to quote that last post.


Quote button? I don't even know 'em!


----------



## IndigoClaudia

Seshas said:


> IndigoEmmy said:
> 
> 
> 
> But what if you found out he was mafia?
> 
> 
> 
> Then I'd simultaneously realize that I wasn't the cop after all.
Click to expand...

Does this mean you are the cop?
[/QUOTE]
[/QUOTE]
[/QUOTE]

This quote is so broken somehow .


----------



## Zori

so um
my flavor role is Macavity
Is that bad


----------



## qenya

I liek Squirtles said:


> We could easily be seeing mafia Victoria or Jennyanydots and I wouldn't be surprised.


who the hell is Victoria

that's not in The Naming of Cats

I'm beginning to suspect Cats (2019) may not be a great movie


----------



## IndigoClaudia

Seshas said:


> so um
> my flavor role is Macavity
> Is that bad


yep. I think so.


----------



## Zori

IndigoEmmy said:


> Seshas said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> IndigoEmmy said:
> 
> 
> 
> But what if you found out he was mafia?
> 
> 
> 
> Then I'd simultaneously realize that I wasn't the cop after all.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Does this mean you are the cop?
Click to expand...

[/QUOTE]
[/QUOTE]

This quote is so broken somehow .
[/QUOTE]
disagree
[/QUOTE]


----------



## Mr. Ultracool

IndigoEmmy said:


> Seshas said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> IndigoEmmy said:
> 
> 
> 
> But what if you found out he was mafia?
> 
> 
> 
> Then I'd simultaneously realize that I wasn't the cop after all.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Does this mean you are the cop?
Click to expand...

[/QUOTE]
[/QUOTE]

This quote is so broken somehow .
[/QUOTE]
We created a meownster.


----------



## IndigoClaudia

kokorico said:


> I'm beginning to suspect Cats (2019) may not be a great movie


Your role is Captain Obvious.
You point out obvious things.

(although this sounds more like something from tvt mafia instead of cats mafia)


----------



## Zori

I demand a picture of Emmy's cat now
I claimed Mafia twice


----------



## IndigoClaudia

Mr. Ultracool said:


> We created a meownster.


On that note, i have to leave right *MEOW*.
Bye peeps. Please don't lynch me.


----------



## IndigoClaudia

Seshas said:


> I demand a picture of Emmy's cat now
> I claimed Mafia twice


Ok seshas before i go let me take one more pic.


----------



## rari_teh

kokorico said:


> I'm beginning to suspect Cats (2019) may not be a great movie


whatever led you to this realization, I ask


----------



## qenya

IndigoEmmy said:


> Your role is Captain Obvious.
> You point out obvious things.


sssssh! don't out me to the mafia!!


----------



## Mr. Ultracool

Seshas said:


> so um
> my flavor role is Macavity
> Is that bad


So, you're the one definitely evil Cat in the Movie/Musical? Doesn't sound townaligned


----------



## Bluwiikoon

IndigoEmmy said:


> On that note, i have to leave right *MEOW*.
> Bye peeps. Please don't lynch me.


Damn, and I had the pitchforks ready and everything.


----------



## IndigoClaudia

˙uʍop ǝpᴉsdn


----------



## I liek Squirtles

Mr. Ultracool said:


> Wasn't
> 
> 
> 
> kokorico said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I liek Squirtles said:
> 
> 
> 
> We could easily be seeing mafia Victoria or Jennyanydots and I wouldn't be surprised.
> 
> 
> 
> who the hell is Victoria
> 
> that's not in The Naming of Cats
> 
> I'm beginning to suspect Cats (2019) may not be a great movie
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> She's the white ballet cat!
Click to expand...


----------



## Bluwiikoon

KITTYYYY!!!!!

Brain gone, need system reboot


----------



## IndigoClaudia

Goodbye! Have a Purrfect day!

Or a meowvelous day.

either one.

MEOW


----------



## Bluwiikoon

It's been three hours since D1 start, but it feels like barely any time at all ^^ Game is fun!

Still really anticipating the arrival of everybody else that we haven't seen yet :D


----------



## Bluwiikoon

Also sorry for contributing to the pile of 15 pages up to this point of uhhhhh Not Much Happening, to anybody catching up

I hope it's mildly entertaining at the very  least!


----------



## Superjolt

Hello! I just wanted to say that I’m busy helping my kitten sister move to her new apartment right now and probably won’t be able to read or check in again until Monday! (or should I say Meownday?)

If you need to get in touch, understand that I am unable to answer the phone right now and please leave a message at the tone!

Also, meow! :3


----------



## Bluwiikoon

Hi Superjolt!! :D Good luck with the big move! I bet your sister super SUPER appreciates the help at a time like this


----------



## Bluwiikoon

Tinhat time


Spoiler



What if Seshas is so comfortable claiming mafia because they know we'll all parse it as a joke and not take it seriously


----------



## kyeugh

Bluwiikoon said:


> Tinhat time
> 
> 
> Spoiler
> 
> 
> 
> What if Seshas is so comfortable claiming mafia because they know we'll all parse it as a joke and not take it seriously


----------



## mewtini

kyeugh said:


> Bluwiikoon said:
> 
> 
> 
> Tinhat time
> 
> 
> Spoiler
> 
> 
> 
> What if Seshas is so comfortable claiming mafia because they know we'll all parse it as a joke and not take it seriously
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 579
Click to expand...

expanded context: wifom is a powerful thing


----------



## Stryke

I'm also here too


----------



## mewtini

hi stryke!


----------



## Stryke

Hello there! I will send pictures of my cats when I can!


----------



## Bluwiikoon

kyeugh said:


> Bluwiikoon said:
> 
> 
> 
> Tinhat time
> 
> 
> Spoiler
> 
> 
> 
> What if Seshas is so comfortable claiming mafia because they know we'll all parse it as a joke and not take it seriously
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 579
Click to expand...

You got me there!


----------



## kyeugh

@RedneckPhoenix


----------



## Tangrowth

Good evening, everyone! Game hype!

I am really looking forward to playing this with you all. I appreciate understanding in advance as I try to adjust to this new place and what vaguely appears like a different kind of game setup than I’m used to... but I’m excited about it! It’s been too long since I’ve played mafia somewhere new.


----------



## Tangrowth

Woah that was weird, I am on mobile and posts did a thing, haha.

I unfortunately probably won’t have much time tonight but I should be around off and on tomorrow, in terms of IRL days that is. I’ll offer reads when I can get some semblance of caught up.


----------



## Tofu

I'm posting to say I exist and now I will go back and try to read things


----------



## mewtini

hello!!

if it makes newcomers feel better: the first like 10 pages are incredibly shitposty.


----------



## mewtini

well, not 10 exactly, but a fair chunk :p


----------



## Herbe

hello y'all!


mewtini said:


> ooh ooh let's play the cop cover game


I'm a man of my word, i told mewtini i always will target her n0:
n0: if I'm cop, *mewtini *checked not scum

maybe I'll just make like 7 different fakeclaims/covers and put equal effort into every one. i'll be a jack of all trades :> i can do it!! I'm skilled enough

mewtiniiiiiiii if i rand maf in tarot i won't kill you n0 :O but in exchange... i would like your trust right now. do you trust me yetttttt? we are Pals


----------



## Herbe

also just got back from my grandma's 81st birthday party :DDDD she's a sweetheart


----------



## Bluwiikoon

Happy birthday Herbe's grandma!!! :D


----------



## Bluwiikoon

I dreamt I was playing a Pokemon-themed maf game and I got hardread as Dumbass  

Not sure what that role would entail, but the subconscious speaketh!


----------



## Herbe

ooh ooh i got this one
rolecop cover claim:
n0 Dumbass check on Bluwiikoon (unsure if town aligned, mafia aligned, or selfaligned because dumbass gets confused very easily :>  )


----------



## mewtini

Herbe said:


> mewtiniiiiiiii if i rand maf in tarot i won't kill you n0 :O but in exchange... i would like your trust right now. do you trust me yetttttt? we are Pals


i trust you approximately as much as i trust anyone rn! (except for in our friendship. i trust you very deeply there.)
herbe my lad! how are the vibes?

also happy birthday to your grandmother omg!


----------



## Herbe

mewtini said:


> except for in our friendship. i trust you very deeply there


hell yeah!!!! >:D

the vibes are sublime! hung out with my kids cousins. i always forget that i'm good with kids lmao. my little niece literally climbed me like a tree. she's a born climber, she loves getting on my shoulders and being tall


----------



## Herbe

my kid cousins* i am not a father


----------



## Herbe

grammy appreciates your well wishes :))


----------



## mewtini

mewtini said:


> i trust you approximately as much as i trust anyone rn!


this sounded strangely ominous. i don't really have a read on anyone yet aside from a few slight townleans (+ of course, my hypocop clear ;) ) but it was kinda hard to tell with how this irl day went! haha.



Herbe said:


> i am not a father


lmao


----------



## mewtini

kinda hoping the next stretch is a bit less shitposty tbqh


----------



## Herbe

mewtini said:


> kinda hoping the next stretch is a bit less shitposty tbqh


at least copcovering is kinda mech useful? not too bad. i would like a well-paced Thinky bit soon though, i love that part of mafia


----------



## mewtini

yeah the copcovering is probably pretty useful! as i said before i'm really glad that people are actually participating in it, it did not go nearly that well last go-around.

as far as the Light Earlygame TRs i mentioned - rari, trebek, blu, and seshas seem to have good vibes so far! excited for some more content to come out hehehehe. anyway rip mawile


----------



## Bluwiikoon

I'll tone down my memery at least! I got really excited about being in a game and kind of uhhhhh forgot to have a brain ^^ Happens to the best of us?

Still a lot of Day left so plenty of time for actual good thoughts :D I get good vibes from mewtini but that could also just be me thinking she's cool and nice


----------



## Herbe

if it's time to start airing reads, copcover mewtini is acting cool and townie (or 3p shrugtownie like last game lmao)
very interested in bluwiikoon!!! would love to hear more from him, but the vibes are good there

not much else stands out to me right now


----------



## mewtini

Bluwiikoon said:


> I'll tone down my memery at least! I got really excited about being in a game and kind of uhhhhh forgot to have a brain ^^ Happens to the best of us?


it is ok! we are all vv excited!! i didn't mean to make anyone feel bad, it's just that if it continues for a lot longer i feel like it could end up counterproductive



Herbe said:


> (or 3p shrugtownie like last game lmao)


LMAO hardclaim 3p B)


----------



## Herbe

mewtini said:


> LMAO hardclaim 3p B)


i knew it!!!!

sidenote it almost sucks being town cause i gotta actually look out for town's best interests and not just like, shoot and derail. i can't meme all the time all the time :/// but i will still meme plenty!!


----------



## mewtini

just so i don't forget to post this - i will say that, especially for anyone who was involved in tvt, i'll probably significantly less off-the-wall active than i was then :p i begin Work soon


----------



## Bluwiikoon

I really wanna trust Herbe because we're animal crossing bros tbh :D He reads to me as making pretty careful posts amongst the memery, whether that be a good thing or a  thing


----------



## Herbe

Bluwiikoon said:


> He reads to me as making pretty careful posts amongst the memery


wait for real?? i felt like i was kinda just shooting off at the mouth

i mean i'd love to be seen as analytical in town's favor but i wasn't aware that was the current vibe, i'm still like 60% memeing


----------



## Herbe

animal crossing bros 4 life tho.  my AC buddy!!! :D


----------



## mewtini

mewtini said:


> as far as the Light Earlygame TRs i mentioned - rari, trebek, blu, and seshas seem to have good vibes so far!


oh i wanted to add skylar to this list, her comment about cop cover seemed pretty pro-town and i agree with seshas that her entrance is a lot different from her early d1 in tvtropes


----------



## mewtini

Herbe said:


> Bluwiikoon said:
> 
> 
> 
> He reads to me as making pretty careful posts amongst the memery
> 
> 
> 
> wait for real?? i felt like i was kinda just shooting off at the mouth
> 
> i mean i'd love to be seen as analytical in town's favor but i wasn't aware that was the current vibe, i'm still like 60% memeing
Click to expand...

lol to be quite honest i agree, i didn't read you as significantly less memey than anyone else (except for like, maybe ... me(me))


----------



## mewtini

which is incidentally why you're sorta lumped in with everyone else in the "idk yet!" pile for the time being


----------



## Herbe

mewtini said:


> which is incidentally why you're sorta lumped in with everyone else in the "idk yet!" pile for the time being


my current vibe:


----------



## mewtini

i love chris fleming so much


----------



## Herbe

that didn't need to show up twice but it's fine


----------



## Herbe

mewtini said:


> i love chris fleming so much


do you own a lizard? He finds himself very popular among women who own lizards


----------



## Trebek

VibeCheck time!


Spoiler



Everyone has good vibes <3



(but on a serious note, im going to hold out on cementing my vibes until we play out a bit more, i dont want to end up subconsciously basing more important decisions down the road solely off of memevibes)


----------



## Herbe

Trebek said:


> VibeCheck time!
> 
> 
> Spoiler
> 
> 
> 
> Everyone has good vibes <3
> 
> 
> 
> (but on a serious note, im going to hold out on cementing my vibes until we play out a bit more, i dont want to end up subconsciously basing more important decisions down the road solely off of memevibes)


very valid!


----------



## mewtini

i miss the comfort of being in mid/endgame and feeling secure in being suspicious of half of the roster


mewtini said:


> then again every time i post defending anyone i imagine the mafiachat just screenshotting me and going "lmao" and then i get sad because i've defenseposted for like half the roster at this point.,


i don't wanna be This Girl again........


----------



## Bluwiikoon

Deploy more pats to mewtini!! :<

It's bound to happen unless you have some Forbidden Knowledge imo ^^ For example I'm not sure if I would have read qva's posts as particularly suspicious during TvT if I wasn't already invited to graveyard chat. Good wolves play us all!


----------



## Bluwiikoon

IndigoEmmy did seem to have different vibes in her initial posts compared to TvT initial posts imo, but that could also definitely be just her adapting after learning more about general gameplay during the last game. It just kind of struck me as she was first posting in here, is all! I will still be keeping my eyes out


----------



## mewtini

yeah i want to say in the most neutral way possible that i'm not sure what to think of emmy just yet (and i owe her a fair read after the end of tvt, looool) because of her shift in posting. something that i will be looking out for as well!


----------



## mewtini

a big part of why i'm not as comfortable with reading skylar based on her entrance is that i think tvt's initial climate was also just hugely different, and as i said earlier, i'm trying to keep myself from extrapolating too much off of one game :p


----------



## Bluwiikoon

Shortlist of people we haven't heard_ too_ much from yet that I'm interested in:



Spoiler



Butterfree - understandable given she's busy with Real Life I think?
Keldeo - real interested in seeing the Keldeoposting in motion :D It seemed pretty fun in the last game, he seems to have a way of asking people just the right questions to get some big thinking happening
kokorico
I liek Squirtles - Knowledge of Cats lore could defs make for good flavor analysis :> I'm still wondering if they have any leads on what Mawile's role could have been based on flavor and character knowledge, whether that's relevant to current play or not.
myuma - they haven't posted anything in here yet, right?
M Plus 7
Tofu
Stryke
Vipera Magnifica - no posts as of writing :o
RedneckPhoenix - also no posts as of writing this!
Superjolt - He's busy with life circumstances too!
Mr. Ultracool - they definitely read everything if reaction notifs are anything to go by :D


----------



## mewtini

v early in the day, i'm guessing we'll hear a lot more relatively soon! ugh but i am impatient ...

idk if this is matters literally at all, but curious about skylar's somewhat random RNP ping in #303


----------



## Bluwiikoon

I'm gonna catch more Z's I think, hope everyone keeps staying hydrated and looks after their selves :D

I can only hope to make some actual smart thoughts later ^^ Until then, I guess any posts at all helps with the vibes and the reads?


----------



## kyeugh

mewtini said:


> idk if this is matters literally at all, but curious about skylar's somewhat random RNP ping in #303


 was just trying to get him to talk since he was the last person left that has definitely been Around but hadnt posted yet


mewtini said:


> a big part of why i'm not as comfortable with reading skylar based on her entrance is that i think tvt's initial climate was also just hugely different, and as i said earlier, i'm trying to keep myself from extrapolating too much off of one game :p


in that case simply stop thinking about tvt and start townreading me because i’m being a towny queen


----------



## kyeugh

the only people i’m not pretty much null on are

1) emmy, who i think is pretty much fine? i guess her entrance is a bit different but like her play generally feels exactly how it did for most of last game, i think she just didn’t really know what to do at first last time. she still has that relaxed stream of consciousness posting style that doesn’t feel too mediated upon, so i want to call her town for now

and 2) herbe, who i feel like is being pretty towny, largely because he’s kind of making observations about how his play has to be different this time, and i kind of want to read that as towny? but like it’s nowhere near outside of his wolf range and overtly drawing attention to how I’m Playing Town This Time could definitely be a wolf thing so i think i end up ambivalent on him

i want to like seshas also but i have no idea how they look as a wolf so i’m kind of fearful


----------



## haneko

Oh my gosh, eighteen pages already? Mafia days happen during real-life night for me due to my timezone, so that's why I haven't posted much. This is also my second mafia game ever, so please keep in mind I'm not very experienced at all!

No one seems particularly suspicious yet, probably because it's early in the game and all you guys have been doing is shitposting. :P But I'm excited to see where this will go.


----------



## mewtini

kyeugh said:


> in that case simply stop thinking about tvt and start townreading me because i’m being a towny queen


ftr i actually am mostly TRing you atm, i'm only nervous because i townread you hard during tvt (the main times i felt weird about you in earlygame were when you shaded seshas/rari hard for what felt like/turned out to be? no reason lol, so i guess i will wait for a weird sign like that to show up). 

i agree with pretty much everything you said though, and i feel _exactly_ the same way about herbe in particular; i like his posting but it doesn't take me as much out of "What if Wolf" as yours has so far. i don't think it would be a stretch for it to be a LAMIST move, but it's not like i'm actively reading it as wolfy or whatever :p


----------



## mewtini

kyeugh said:


> i want to like seshas also but i have no idea how they look as a wolf so i’m kind of fearful


also, yeah. seshas' posts about you and trebek make me like them, because i independently felt alright about you guys. tbqh it's almost nice to have gotten to see you/herbe as scum last game because i think that'll, uh, theoretically, make things easier now - not a luxury i have with seshas :T


----------



## mewtini

hit post too soon. mostly i liked that their posts in favor of you two came pretty much out of the blue and felt legitimate? idk


----------



## Keldeo

Just finished catching up! I'll split thoughts into a couple of posts so it's not too much of a wall, but first I think everyone should read this extremely important article about cop cover.


----------



## Keldeo

And literally right after I posted that I lost internet lol


----------



## Keldeo

Wahoo for autosave!

Happy belated birthday to your grandma, Herbe!



mewtini said:


> is it bad if i admit that i am so clueless about what to do d1 that i'm just waiting for keldeoooo





Herbe said:


> I'm right there with ya.
> Keldeoooooo!!





Bluwiikoon said:


> KELDEOOOOOO


omg you guys. vengefullyKeldeoooo!.png 



Seshas said:


> mewtini said:
> 
> 
> 
> the fact that you and eifie both reacted so strongly to m+7 is scaring me
> 
> 
> 
> I've never actually played with them tbh
Click to expand...

I have (once) and he's a delight and there's a reason I invited him here tbh!



I liek Squirtles said:


> Also if folks need help with cats lore I can help


ILS, Lorekeeper of Cats...!

@I liek Squirtles Rari said they thought Mawile could be the flavor Gus based on the blurb, do you think that'd make sense?


----------



## Keldeo

mewtini said:


> Seshas said:
> 
> 
> 
> Their entrance isn't as content-oriented as TvT
> 
> 
> 
> HA yeah i was reading her entrance here and her tvt entrance side-by-side tbqh. i agree. wasn't sure if it was maybe just because a lot more people were talking content there than here, but i think she was a little ringleadery in it in tvt ...
Click to expand...

@mewtini @Seshas Can you expand on this read for me? I agree she'd been making more jokes and stuff here, and I think I agree on her for separate reasons, but the SOD atmosphere here felt pretty diametrically opposed to TVTropes in content density.


Seshas said:


> Trebek said:
> 
> 
> 
> yeah thats a valid point, i think im just too scared of reading too deeply into anything until someone more knowledgeable does it first
> 
> 
> 
> This post shows a legitimate solving mindset
Click to expand...

I'm not entirely seeing this one, can you rephrase or tell me more?



mewtini said:


> as far as the Light Earlygame TRs i mentioned - rari, trebek, blu, and seshas seem to have good vibes so far! excited for some more content to come out hehehehe. anyway rip mawile


Can I ask you to talk a bit more about Rari, Trebek, and your read that Emmy is town for her read on kyeugh shitposting?



IndigoEmmy said:


> Who seems suspicious to all of y'all?
> 
> Blu and probably Mewtini don't seem super suspicious to me, but idk.


@IndigoEmmy Could you expand on why you think this more than vibes at all?



kyeugh said:


> i want to like seshas also but i have no idea how they look as a wolf so i’m kind of fearful


 @kyeugh What did you want to like about Seshas?


----------



## Keldeo

@Mawile - look how they massacred :( I hope you're vibing in graveyard chat!

@Tofu - hey, good to be playing with you! Can I ask what your experience is with mafia?

@Herbe - random question, do you think you like being mafia or town better? 

(I was gonna ping everyone but felt like it would be mean hehe, so:) kokorico, ILS, Trebek, myuma, rari, Blu, Stryke - have you got any particular thoughts on players so far? Even if they're not that fleshed out yet, it'd be cool to hear them.


----------



## Keldeo

I have town-leans-ish on mewtini for good tone(tm) and some small turns of phrase, Blu for tone and general excitement for the game even if he's been pretty bare with content, and kyeugh because -


kyeugh said:


> *the only people i’m not pretty much null on are*
> 
> 1) emmy, who i think is pretty much fine? i guess her entrance is a bit different but like her play generally feels exactly how it did for most of last game, i think she just didn’t really know what to do at first last time. she still has that relaxed stream of consciousness posting style that doesn’t feel too mediated upon, so i want to call her town for now
> 
> and 2) herbe, who i feel like is being pretty towny, largely because he’s kind of making observations about how his play has to be different this time, and i kind of want to read that as towny? but like it’s nowhere near outside of his wolf range and overtly drawing attention to how I’m Playing Town This Time could definitely be a wolf thing so *i think i end up ambivalent on him*


with asterisk for Respect, I that she basically ends up null on Herbe still. I don't have the best grasp on her wolfgame, but from what I remember it felt a bit more agendaed, like she wants to get stuff done and push things with her posts.

A step below that, Herbe's felt relaxed and very open about being town this time around, and I vaguely liked Rari jumping in a couple times with random points about flavor.

Seshas is interesting since I felt like I had an easy time understanding their points/logic in TVTropes but I haven't been sold on their content so far here even though everyone else seems to like their contentposting.

Agreeing that Indigo's entrance seemed tonally different from in TVT - somewhat more serious and straightforward - though I got the pure stream-of-consciousness Indigo vibes from a couple of her later posts.


----------



## mewtini

Keldeo said:


> Can you expand on this read for me? I agree she'd been making more jokes and stuff here, and I think I agree on her for separate reasons, but the SOD atmosphere here felt pretty diametrically opposed to TVTropes in content density.


when i read back over d1 tvt after that interaction with seshas, it was less the content-oriented nature of it specifically that made me feel better, and more that i remember her arguing with me/others in bizarre ways (and that she tried to *pass it off* as content-related). 

like, during flavorspec in that game, i mentioned that the kill flavor felt weird to me (and this was when a lot of people were tinfoil contemplating the possibility of a non-mafia kill) and she kept saying things that were only peripherally-relevant in a way that felt like it was meant to derail/antagonize me and discourage from in-depth speculation it'll be kind of awkward if it turns out that she actually believed it and i'm just shading her tvt performance needlessly

that doesn't really sound as organized as i want it to and this is getting long lmao but the point is that imo she made more 'grounded', less-attention grabbing plays in early tvt - that were intended to subtly interfere with discussion - than she is now as what i think is loltown. an aside is that i personally feel that, off of games that i've read where she played as town, i mostly agree with her and i clashed with her a lot with tvt; i am finding the bits of content that she's posted in here a lot easier to believe than i did last game, where i immediately disagreed with her dislike of rari/seshas



Keldeo said:


> Can I ask you to talk a bit more about Rari, Trebek, and your read that Emmy is town for her read on kyeugh shitposting?


rari is my hypocop clear
i don't feel super strongly about the other two, but my attempt at explanation:

for emmy it's that she feels _frustrated_ by not understanding skylar's behavior 100%; in 167 she briefly panicked about the fake jesterclaim and then said "i feel like she's town but i'm worried about it." on gut i'd feel like w!emmy would leave it alone instead of engaging as much as she did; neither of those things is actually AI, but i feel like her attitude towards it might have been?
trebek is my lightest TR out of the group and i kinda sheeped seshas on my initial agree - i read him as pure/lost but don't know how i feel about it now. also, as someone who knows him irl, i think that he is especially likely to be shy/hesitant to share thoughts for fear of messing up - regardless of alignment


----------



## Keldeo

Oh yeah very important question

@M Plus 7 what's your favorite Pokemon?


----------



## mewtini

Keldeo said:


> I don't have the best grasp on her wolfgame, but from what I remember it felt a bit more agendaed, like she wants to get stuff done and push things with her posts.


this is the better way of saying what i was thinking. she was pushing really hard against people in the early stages of tvtropes



Keldeo said:


> Seshas is interesting since I felt like I had an easy time understanding their points/logic in TVTropes but I haven't been sold on their content so far here even though everyone else seems to like their contentposting.


tbqh my seshas townlean is mostly that they voiced townreading skylar unprompted :p i don't feel as strongly positively about them as i did last game, so i'm keeping an eye out on that one


----------



## Keldeo

mewtini said:


> Spoiler
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Keldeo said:
> 
> 
> 
> Can you expand on this read for me? I agree she'd been making more jokes and stuff here, and I think I agree on her for separate reasons, but the SOD atmosphere here felt pretty diametrically opposed to TVTropes in content density.
> 
> 
> 
> when i read back over d1 tvt after that interaction with seshas, it was less the content-oriented nature of it specifically that made me feel better, and more that i remember her arguing with me/others in bizarre ways (and that she tried to *pass it off* as content-related).
> 
> like, during flavorspec in that game, i mentioned that the kill flavor felt weird to me (and this was when a lot of people were tinfoil contemplating the possibility of a non-mafia kill) and she kept saying things that were only peripherally-relevant in a way that felt like it was meant to derail/antagonize me and discourage from in-depth speculation it'll be kind of awkward if it turns out that she actually believed it and i'm just shading her tvt performance needlessly
> 
> that doesn't really sound as organized as i want it to and this is getting long lmao but the point is that imo she made more 'grounded', less-attention grabbing plays in early tvt - that were intended to subtly interfere with discussion - than she is now as what i think is loltown. an aside is that i personally feel that, off of games that i've read where she played as town, i mostly agree with her and i clashed with her a lot with tvt; i am finding the bits of content that she's posted in here a lot easier to believe than i did last game, where i immediately disagreed with her dislike of rari/seshas
> 
> 
> 
> Keldeo said:
> 
> 
> 
> Can I ask you to talk a bit more about Rari, Trebek, and your read that Emmy is town for her read on kyeugh shitposting?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> rari is my hypocop clear
> i don't feel super strongly about the other two, but my attempt at explanation:
> 
> for emmy it's that she feels _frustrated_ by not understanding skylar's behavior 100%; in 167 she briefly panicked about the fake jesterclaim and then said "i feel like she's town but i'm worried about it." on gut i'd feel like w!emmy would leave it alone instead of engaging as much as she did; neither of those things is actually AI, but i feel like her attitude towards it might have been?
> trebek is my lightest TR out of the group and i kinda sheeped seshas on my initial agree - i read him as pure/lost but don't know how i feel about it now. also, as someone who knows him irl, i think that he is especially likely to be shy/hesitant to share thoughts for fear of messing up - regardless of alignment
Click to expand...

Thanks! You're saying that mafia kyeugh is, like, meddlesome? I still feel like there wasn't any actual discussion to shutdown or interfere with in the earlygame but yeah, I haven't gotten any sense of that from after people started getting ~serious.

I actually have some personal theories about her scumtells based on thinking about her TVT game, but I'm gonna keep quiet on them for obvious reasons.

I see what you mean about Emmy better, and that's helpful to know about Trebek.


----------



## mewtini

Keldeo said:


> You're saying that mafia kyeugh is, like, meddlesome?


pretty much, yeah. but meddlesome in ways that weren't super flashy (i'm not at all huge on this this either, because of the climate so far as you said) - in tvt i felt like her earlygame shitposting was mostly done to blend in with the likes of eifie


----------



## mewtini

*eifie and mf


----------



## Keldeo

btw, @ Trebek (and everyone), it's good to put ideas out there and stuff even if you're kinda hesitant about it! Eifie worded it better than I can I think:



Eifie said:


> villagers should just post whatever the hell they want to post without worrying about how it's seen imo
> 
> (much easier said than done)


Also, whoops, brain fart on Rari being your check, mewt. I'll give my own n0 a little later.

I have to go now but I'll be back, like, Monday night? I have a busy day tomorrow hehe.


----------



## Keldeo

Keldeo said:


> tomorrow


Or I guess today because it's 6am. What is time.


----------



## mewtini

it wouldn't be keldeoposting if it didn't occur between the hours of 3 and 6am!


----------



## Keldeo

Okay one more thing and then I'm really going to sleep, there have been a decent number of references to TVTropes Mafia since a lot of people were in it / followed it. But I know there are also a good number of people who weren't in it, so if that's you, please don't feel discouraged or anything by all the references hehe! I'm sure anyone who was involved could explain everything that's relevant if you have questions about how the meta is being applied, and you can look at the thread yourself too if you want.


----------



## qenya

Keldeo said:


> (I was gonna ping everyone but felt like it would be mean hehe, so:) kokorico, ILS, Trebek, myuma, rari, Blu, Stryke - have you got any particular thoughts on players so far? Even if they're not that fleshed out yet, it'd be cool to hear them.


nope lol. I was expecting at least the first half of D1 to be mostly memes based on TVT D1, and got caught by surprise when everyone started actually playing :P Gonna reread, ask me again this evening


----------



## kyeugh

mewtini said:


> than she is now as what i think is loltown.


 i’m not being loltown >:(



Keldeo said:


> @kyeugh What did you want to like about Seshas


 i think i just like when people reads freely and on the fly without being pressed. and of course there’s an element of knowing they’re right about me being town, but. :p i’ll admit that’s not a super strong basis for a read, especially since i don’t really see where they’re coming from with the trebek thing.



mewtini said:


> trebek is my lightest TR out of the group and* i kinda sheeped seshas on my initial agree*





mewtini said:


> seshas' posts about you and trebek make me like them, because *i independently felt alright about you guys.*


 question mark


----------



## kyeugh

kyeugh said:


> i think i just like when people reads


* offer reads


----------



## mewtini

kyeugh said:


> question mark


i liked you/ryan initially, seshas solidified my positive ryan feelings, but when replying to keldeo i realized my ryan TR was mostly confbiased / i don’t totally get their posts, either


----------



## mewtini

i mostly have just been feeling alright about the new players pretty much because their Newness makes them sympathetic to me, haha


----------



## mewtini

er *me feel sympathetic to them


----------



## haneko

@Keldeo
Based on the fact this is Cats (2019) Mafia, the mafia members are probably Macavity (the film's antagonist, correct me if I'm wrong) and his cronies. According to post history and the "last seen" bit of their profiles, Tofu, rari_teh and M+7 were online during roughly the same time frame today (4:30AM GMT). This _could_ be a coincidence, or maybe not... if they're all mafia, they might be discussing something on their private mafia chat.

Vipera Magnifica and RedneckPheonix have been online, but haven't posted anything. Mr. Ultracool is watching (or more accurately, reacting) from the shadows. Lying low...? Superjolt and Butterfree haven't posted due to real-life things holding them up, so they're free from suspicion for now.

So far I'm inclined to think kyeugh isn't mafia because her playstyle is different to the tvtropes game.


----------



## haneko

Tofu, rari, and m+7 were online without really contributing much to the thread, which is what makes it suspicious. Just wanted to clarify that


----------



## mewtini

tofu and rari were both vibing in the cats stream last night, so i wouldn’t attribute suspicion based off of that (i am admittedly wary of activity/last seen reads nowadays)



myuma said:


> Mr. Ultracool is watching (or more accurately, reacting) from the shadows. Lying low...?


i also am probably gonna be null on him for a while, but it’s worth noting that he played like this as town in tvt


----------



## qenya

ok I'm ready to be actually useful

townreads:

ILS - hasn't said much, but what he has said has been useful flavour spec
kyeugh and Seshas are being solvy, volunteering reads on the spot / earlier than anyone else. (Though based off last game they seem to be some of the strongest players here and would probably be more than capable of faking it)
Bluwiikoon seems to be behaving very similarly to the way Emmy was last game! Very stream-of-consciousness, happy-go-lucky. Just doesn't seem anywhere near guarded enough to be mafia. Especially considering IIRC this is his first game?
mewtini is my hypocop check! and also just seems to be being generally friendly/supportive of people/helping town gel? admittedly this is a bit weak
scumreads:

Eifie is clearly lying about being a cat. she's not even on the player list!
that's it
I have warned y'all repeatedly that I'm not very good at this
null:

Agree Emmy is acting differently from last game, but like I said earlier, I don't think that's necessarily indicative of anything
Keldeo on the other hand is extremely similar: long posts where he does lots of busywork (collating posts / asking people for clarification / explaining rules etc) but doesn't provide much in the way of his own info. It still feels like a scum tactic to me, but last game he was a cop, so ¯\_(ツ)_/¯



mewtini said:


> as far as the Light Earlygame TRs i mentioned - rari, trebek, blu, and seshas seem to have good vibes so far! excited for some more content to come out hehehehe. anyway rip mawile


Like I said above I agree about seshas and blu, and you explained trebek a couple of posts up, but what about rari? curious about what you're basing that on as afaict she doesn't seem to have said much yet


----------



## mewtini

mewtini said:


> cats stream last night


+ so i think they probably returned to the forums afterward or something.


----------



## mewtini

kokorico said:


> but what about rari? curious about what you're basing that on as afaict she doesn't seem to have said much yet


she’s my hypocop check!


----------



## qenya

myuma said:


> According to post history and the "last seen" bit of their profiles, Tofu, rari_teh and M+7 were online during roughly the same time frame today (4:30AM GMT). This _could_ be a coincidence, or maybe not... if they're all mafia, they might be discussing something on their private mafia chat.
> 
> Vipera Magnifica and RedneckPheonix have been online, but haven't posted anything. Mr. Ultracool is watching (or more accurately, reacting) from the shadows. Lying low...? Superjolt and Butterfree haven't posted due to real-life things holding them up, so they're free from suspicion for now.


are we supposed to be considering people's online status / activity? feels a bit cheaty as it's outside knowledge


----------



## qenya

mewtini said:


> kokorico said:
> 
> 
> 
> but what about rari? curious about what you're basing that on as afaict she doesn't seem to have said much yet
> 
> 
> 
> she’s my hypocop check!
Click to expand...

oh right! sorry, haven't been keeping track of those


----------



## mewtini

i don’t think it’s illegal but it makes me slightly uncomfy

especially because i burned myself by mislynching people using that as justification lmfao


----------



## qenya

kokorico said:


> are we supposed to be considering people's online status / activity? feels a bit cheaty as it's outside knowledge


just ftr I'm not trying to have a go at you myuma, just wanting to clear up what the acceptable parameters of the game are


----------



## Bluwiikoon

:D myuma is another animal crossing cat bro!! The squad assembles

In response to Keldeo asking about thoughts, here's what I've got!

-Keldeo is my hypocop clear of course.

-I feel good about mewtini because she is very solvy rn and trying to puzzle things out with us. Still needs pats tho ;o; Nooo self-depreciation!! You did great last game imo! Pwease no feel bad

-I have some suspicions about Seshas for some reason  Could just be unfounded based on my earlier WIFOM tinhatting however! As far as I can recall, they didn't actually respond to my tinhatting (not that WMG deserves much of a response)

-kokorico's put some good thoughts out there in eir analysis post! Even if I'm wary of Seshas compared to kokorico, I respect eir thoughts on the matter. ^^ Agree about the Emmy thing

-kyeugh/qva feels alright to me so far. No super strong feelings but we'll see!

-Herbe is of course my AC bro >:o Tangyyy!! I wanna trust Herbe LOL

-myuma trying their best with the limited clues we have, which seems towny. :D Not sure how I feel about putting weight into online status but the effort feels towny. Also AC bro!

-IndigoEmmy feels different as I've mentioned, but again, could just be getting used to more mafia games. She hasn't really tried to contribute to any Vibe Discussions or speculation as of yet if that's worth noting.


----------



## I liek Squirtles

Keldeo said:


> I liek Squirtles said:
> 
> 
> 
> Also if folks need help with cats lore I can help
> 
> 
> 
> ILS, Lorekeeper of Cats...!
> 
> @I liek Squirtles Rari said they thought Mawile could be the flavor Gus based on the blurb, do you think that'd make sense?
Click to expand...

I think yes, though there isn't much to go off of besides the chair, which is where Gus is for about half his number in the show. Not super sure though.


As for my own thoughts on people, seshas pinged kinda towny for me? They were being helpful and explanatory. Now I realize that's pretty flimsy but. Yeah.


----------



## Zori

I am here now



Herbe said:


> sidenote it almost sucks being town cause i gotta actually look out for town's best interests and not just like, shoot and derail. i can't meme all the time all the time :/// but i will still meme plenty!!


Greater than random chance of being town



Keldeo said:


> Just finished catching up! I'll split thoughts into a couple of posts so it's not too much of a wall, but first I think everyone should read this extremely important article about cop cover.


been there, done that :P



Keldeo said:


> [Re: Kyeugh]
> @mewtini @Seshas Can you expand on this read for me? I agree she'd been making more jokes and stuff here, and I think I agree on her for separate reasons, but the SOD atmosphere here felt pretty diametrically opposed to TVTropes in content density.
> 
> [Re: Trebek]
> I'm not entirely seeing this one, can you rephrase or tell me more?


[Re: Kyeugh]
Fair enough
They didn't gut-ping me as fake-ish like they did in TvT though

[Re: Trebek]
The stated desire to solve in itself is more likely to come from town
But I don't see mafia stating that, and then openly not coming up with anything, given how much information they have at game-start


----------



## Zori

myuma said:


> @Keldeo
> Based on the fact this is Cats (2019) Mafia, the mafia members are probably Macavity (the film's antagonist, correct me if I'm wrong) and his cronies. According to post history and the "last seen" bit of their profiles, Tofu, rari_teh and M+7 were online during roughly the same time frame today (4:30AM GMT). This _could_ be a coincidence, or maybe not... if they're all mafia, they might be discussing something on their private mafia chat.


I feel like this is way too hardcore to come from mafia


----------



## rari_teh

Bluwiikoon said:


> Any thoughts on whether the uhhhh old geezer cat would have had a specific role? Someone speculated that Mawile may be the geezer due to the flavor text (terrible at remembering names, I'm sorry!)


When I said Gus, I was thinking of Bus (the fat cat who digs the restaurants’ trashcans for food), not Ian McKellen (poor guy)



kyeugh said:


> was just trying to get him to talk since he was the last person left that has definitely been Around but hadnt posted yet


He did the same thing on TVT IIRC? He was active on the forums for the entirety of D1 but didn’t show up until the last hours of the Day



Keldeo said:


> I don't have the best grasp on her wolfgame, but from what I remember it felt a bit more agendaed, like she wants to get stuff done and push things with her posts.


I have the same feeling. Thoughts™ incoming in another post, soon™



myuma said:


> Based on the fact this is Cats (2019) Mafia, the mafia members are probably Macavity (the film's antagonist, correct me if I'm wrong) and his cronies. According to post history and the "last seen" bit of their profiles, Tofu, rari_teh and M+7 were online during roughly the same time frame today (4:30AM GMT). This _could_ be a coincidence, or maybe not... if they're all mafia, they might be discussing something on their private mafia chat.


I don’t really feel like posting when I don’t think I’ll add to the discussion and the thread yesterday was pretty much only memes and cop covers (I’m glad we’re starting to try to sort things out now btw – not to shit on memeing, don’t get me wrong, it’s just that we’re on D1 and our first lynch will have little context to it unless something mad happens)
That and, well, the forums are much more than this thread, innit
I understand where you’re coming from, though, because I won’t lie that I sometimes also take a peek at the Currently Online list, but that’s too flimsy of an evidence to point mafia fingers imo


----------



## rari_teh

rari_teh said:


> I don’t really feel like posting when I don’t think I’ll add to the discussion and the thread yesterday was pretty much only memes and cop covers (I’m glad we’re starting to try to sort things out now btw – not to shit on memeing, don’t get me wrong, it’s just that we’re on D1 and our first lynch will have little context to it unless something mad happens)
> That and, well, the forums are much more than this thread, innit
> I understand where you’re coming from, though, because I won’t lie that I sometimes also take a peek at the Currently Online list, but that’s too flimsy of an evidence to point mafia fingers imo


reading back, this may have come up as a bit harsh, which I did not intend. if it did so, my apologies.


----------



## rari_teh

rough thoughts, brought to you by TV Tropes™:

- mewtini is my hypo n0 green, but even in the hypothesis that I’m not a cop, I’m vibing well with her postings
- kyeugh is playing very differently from TVT – as Keldeo & Co. already said, she’s feeling much more laid back and memey, nowhere near her accusatory game in TVT. this _could_ be her playing 4D chess to clear suspicions, but that’s too wifom-y and frankly I’d better not walk the paranoid path
- Keldeo is playing pretty much like he did on TVT imo? like, he’s giving out his thoughts, encouraging people to do so and moving conversation forward. likely town
- Emmy is indeed very different from her TVT self, but I don’t think she sounds like someone who’s being oriented by a scumchat
- kokorico is also a bit different from TVT? I feel like e’s not giving out unique takes as e was there, but then again that’s probably just em legitimately agreeing with the majority
- Blu has come off as pretty pure for me. I townread him slightly more than the average
- Herbe is vibing town, but so he was in TVT before the Mawile Incident™, so I’d rather push him towards my null pile
- I might be missing something, but I feel like Seshas is being less solvy than she was last time? I don’t know how her wolf game is and she’s definitely a strong player, so while I don’t really have anything for or against her, I’ll be sure to watch her out closely


----------



## rari_teh

also tbqf myuma using the login times to try and a-ha! the mafia came off as pretty towny to me imo


----------



## Zori

I was going to finger-of-suspicion kokorico for his attitudes towards the flavor spec and meta, but I think his lack of scumreads is more town-indicative than not
Since scumreads are probably seen as integral part of solving?
This read will change over the course of the day


----------



## mewtini

sup fellow cats
reading back now
i fell _back_ asleep after my last post at 11:30, now it's 3pm and i'm ready to vibe :|


----------



## rari_teh

mewtini said:


> i fell _back_ asleep after my last post at 11:30, now it's 3pm and i'm ready to vibe :|


big mood


----------



## haneko

Well, it looks like my conspiracy theory has been shot down. I don't think it's as convincing if less than three people were online at the same time. To me it seems like the people who lie low are usually mafia. Hopefully I didn't insult you too much, rari! Your reasoning to not post makes a lot of sense tbh.

Also, Blu & Herbe - I'm happy to be part of the acnh club :D though I don't own the game...  :'(


----------



## rari_teh

myuma said:


> Hopefully I didn't insult you too much, rari!


none taken ^^ you were trying your best


----------



## mewtini

ok i guess i'll just haphazardly listify it, i am barely awake so sorry in adv for screwups (i still refuse to proofread for some reason?) but i by and large agree with rari's list i think. list is sorted somewhat, from high-to-low (higher = townier, lower = less so) w the caveat i really do not feel that strongly about most of you guys yet so the disparity between highest and lowest is pretty shallow.

but i'll feel left out if i don't make a reads list so here we are

*the queen:* @Eifie even though i totally just overtook her reaction score \o/!!!!!!!! bow down!!!
*townleans:*
- _rari_ (hypocheck). if she weren't my check, i'd be feeling null-to-fine about her still, mostly just because i like that i agree with her takes right now and because she also vocally wanted town to keep up cop cover; not-hypocop!me's read mostly just depends on her continuing to post
- _bluwiikoon_ is feels like this game's indigoemmy i think. pretty much agree with what koko said, he doesn't seem guarded in the way that i'd envision a newbie wolf to be
- _skylar_, for reasons pretty much already stated; more relaxed, seems to be putting less effort into seeming down-to-earth, etc than in tvt
- _seshas_ is giving unprompted reads which feels good to me. however she and keldeo are the two on this list in my "I'm Scared of Their Wolgfame, for I Have Not Seen It Before" box, so i'm on the lookout
- _herbe_ is just relaxed/memeing similarly to skylar, but he also was way closer to that in his wolfgame than skylar was, so he gets to be a few spaces below her
- _kokorico_ - idk how e plays as town, but e can be here for the readlist
- _myuma_ gets to be here for their online activity solviness and eagerness!
*null, among those who've posted *(not including as-of-now inactives, or barely-actives)
- _keldeo_, mostly because i'm scared of him and i don't know his scumrange; it feels like his guiding-discussion strategy could appear as either alignment, and i don't really know his meta :p will hopefully sort this out as time goes on
- _ILS_, above trebek because of his flavorspec, but pretty null
- _trebek_, i explained earlier that i gut-read him as pure town but i got swayed back out of it when i actually put myself up to giving reasoning to keldeo :p and i think his early posts read like they could come out of either alignment from him
- _ultracool_ - no reason, just haven't seen much, but he did play fairly passively as town in tvt


----------



## mewtini

mewtini said:


> Wolgfame


damn i love this fire emblem tome


----------



## kyeugh

Seshas said:


> Greater than random chance of being town


disagree honestly


mewtini said:


> - _kokorico_ - idk how e plays as town, but e can be here for the readlist


i believe e was town for a decent chunk of tvt iirc


----------



## mewtini

kyeugh said:


> i believe e was town for a decent chunk of tvt iirc


not gonna lie to you i have no idea what was up with e's role!


kyeugh said:


> disagree honestly


i agree with this disagree


----------



## Zori

_Probably villager_
IndigoEmmy

_Did a concretely good thing_
myuma
Trebek

_Haven't reeeallly Read but Good Vibes_
Herbe
kyeugh
mewtini
rari_teh
Bluwiikoon

_Haven't Read_
Keldeo
I liek Squirtles

_Haven't Read, but they didn't really post iirc_
Butterfree
M Plus 7
Tofu
Stryke
Vipera Magnifica
RedneckPhoenix
Superjolt
Mr. Ultracool


_Iffy Vibes_
kokorico


----------



## kyeugh

mewtini said:


> it feels like his guiding-discussion strategy could appear as either alignment, and i don't really know his meta :p


very much possible fwiw, i think keldeo always _feels_ solvy and to glean alignment you pretty much have to look closely at how much of it is actually insightful solving vs smoke and mirrors
which can be tricky bc then it kind of looks bad for him if he’s not playing exceptionally which is not really fair tbh but like.


----------



## kyeugh

i can see a herbe/seshas scumteam lowkey. is that too obvious


----------



## Zori

kyeugh said:


> disagree honestly


I think W!Herbe is less likely to think this thought though
it's really just a lean


----------



## kyeugh

Seshas said:


> I think W!Herbe is less likely to think this thought though


 definitely don’t think so tbh, much of his posting last game was “self aware” about his (fake) position in the game


----------



## kyeugh

no shade herbe, we still stan


----------



## rari_teh

mewtini said:


> kyeugh said:
> 
> 
> 
> i believe e was town for a decent chunk of tvt iirc
> 
> 
> 
> not gonna lie to you i have no idea what was up with e's role!
Click to expand...

He was VT from N0 to D2. He turned into a terrorist N2 and his alignment flipped


----------



## mewtini

kyeugh said:


> i can see a herbe/seshas scumteam lowkey. is that too obvious


i think trebek/seshas is likelier? if we had to pair them up?

also herbe was super self-referential/meta last game, and it was part of what pocketed me. that is why i don't feel awesome about going off of that


----------



## mewtini

mewtini said:


> if we had to pair them up?


*if we had to pair seshas up with anyone



rari_teh said:


> He was VT from N0 to D2. He turned into a terrorist N2 and his alignment flipped


oh right! thanks, forgot


----------



## Zori

kyeugh said:


> definitely don’t think so tbh, much of his posting last game was “self aware” about his (fake) position in the game


fair enough then

I'm getting a solid [no vibes yet] from Squirtle


----------



## rari_teh

Seshas said:


> I'm getting a solid [no vibes yet] from Squirtle


same tbh


----------



## kyeugh

does anyone have meta on him? weirdly he feels like a big blind spot for me


----------



## Trebek

ok so i just woke up and in classic trebek fashion the first thing i did was get immediately intimidated by Lots of Posts and not being Convincing Enough TM 

group reads coming once i get my head screwed on and reread everything but just wanted to respond to some stuff that happened when i was asleep:


mewtini said:


> - _trebek_, i explained earlier that i gut-read him as pure town but i got swayed back out of it when i actually put myself up to giving reasoning to keldeo :p and i think his early posts read like they could come out of either alignment from him


not something i consciously thought about until you mentioned it, but i am realizing that this is likely the exact same type of posting i would do if i were scum. its just hard to think of Things To Say TM that would solidify non-scumminess when every time i think of something i immediately think "oh. if i were scum i would also think of doing the same thing bc it would appear as town haha"


mewtini said:


> as someone who knows him irl, i think that he is especially likely to be shy/hesitant to share thoughts for fear of messing up


imagine getting called out like that :(


Keldeo said:


> btw, @ Trebek (and everyone), it's good to put ideas out there and stuff even if you're kinda hesitant about it! Eifie worded it better than I can I think:
> 
> 
> 
> Eifie said:
> 
> 
> 
> villagers should just post whatever the hell they want to post without worrying about how it's seen imo
> 
> (much easier said than done)
Click to expand...

this is scawy

TLDR, i think im still too used to the ToS playstyle of "your personality doesnt really matter if you can just lie low/deterministically figure out the game" and not used enough to having to have Thoughts in a way that i can actually present to other people

...who knows if this post will mean anything long-run and i will actually go back and solidify my other reads Soon TM but just wanted to confirm that i am alive and around


----------



## Zori

I feel like any flips we get will solve Keldeo better than I can right now, so I'm going to leave that there

Rari has had [just chilling] vibes, which isn't necessarily bad, but not overly town-indicative


----------



## mewtini

kyeugh said:


> does anyone have meta on him? weirdly he feels like a big blind spot for me


i was going to ask YOU that. :( he hadn't played on here in a while before tvt had he? i remember trying to read old games from him and not finding much useful intel
i think i'm waiting to see if he posts actual content, what made me feel (VERY lightly) weird was that his flavorspec came even after other discussable stuff had come up and he hadn't gotten back around to a substantial post


----------



## kyeugh

Trebek said:


> not something i consciously thought about until you mentioned it, but i am realizing that this is likely the exact same type of posting i would do if i were scum. its just hard to think of Things To Say TM that would solidify non-scumminess when every time i think of something i immediately think "oh. if i were scum i would also think of doing the same thing bc it would appear as town haha"


i think i like this thought process tbh


----------



## Zori

Trebek said:


> not something i consciously thought about until you mentioned it, but i am realizing that this is likely the exact same type of posting i would do if i were scum. its just hard to think of Things To Say TM that would solidify non-scumminess when every time i think of something i immediately think "oh. if i were scum i would also think of doing the same thing bc it would appear as town haha"


My solution is to not give a crap about it and try to find posts/thoughts from other people that give you BadTrademarked Illegally Vibes


----------



## mewtini

Trebek said:


> not something i consciously thought about until you mentioned it, but i am realizing that this is likely the exact same type of posting i would do if i were scum. its just hard to think of Things To Say TM that would solidify non-scumminess when every time i think of something i immediately think "oh. if i were scum i would also think of doing the same thing bc it would appear as town haha"


you don't have to think "How Do I Prove Myself Townie?"!! keldeo is right that just posting your real/unfiltered thoughts will help other townies find you better than shying away will, even if you're horrifically wrong. i mean, i was wrong about everything in tvt, and i was towncore! :DDD

but i think that this quote feels townie to me regardless. interested in your readlist, no matter how unsophisticated you feel it may be


----------



## Zori

kyeugh said:


> Seshas said:
> 
> 
> 
> I think W!Herbe is less likely to think this thought though
> 
> 
> 
> definitely don’t think so tbh, much of his posting last game was “self aware” about his (fake) position in the game
Click to expand...

btw I think this read stemmed from my sucky play in Push The Button


----------



## Trebek

mewtini said:


> i mean, i was wrong about everything in tvt, and i was towncore! :DDD


oh yeah, my other big regret is that i lurked/read like 99% of tvt and it didnt help me learn how to play forum mafia at all LOL

readlist will come once i tackle some external things just so that my brain is less crammed


----------



## mewtini

Seshas said:


> btw I think this read stemmed from my sucky play in Push The Button


what do you mean?

ps. dude push the button was fcking traumatizing


----------



## mewtini

Trebek said:


> oh yeah, my other big regret is that i lurked/read like 99% of tvt and it didnt help me learn how to play forum mafia at all LOL


i went into tvt with much less recent awareness than you are coming into cats with. we are all just stumbling around tbh, i """Prepped""" for this game by reading every MU article and trying to make myself less neurotic than i was in tvt


----------



## Zori

mewtini said:


> what do you mean?
> 
> ps. dude push the button was fcking traumatizing


ikr
I was 100000% not self-aware at all
I think that's how I am for turbo-speed games


----------



## kyeugh

hey you guys should join the tcod minecraft (java edition) realm
it’s kyeugh approved


----------



## rari_teh

Trebek said:


> not something i consciously thought about until you mentioned it, but i am realizing that this is likely the exact same type of posting i would do if i were scum. its just hard to think of Things To Say TM that would solidify non-scumminess when every time i think of something i immediately think "oh. if i were scum i would also think of doing the same thing bc it would appear as town haha"


thesis: mafia tries to disguise as town, so towniness is scummy
antithesis: mafia would never openwolf unless they're already outed beyond repair
synthesis: rp scum in thread and get cleared by everybody because no way an actual mafioso would do that


----------



## mewtini

kyeugh said:


> it’s kyeugh approved


kyeughpproved


----------



## IndigoClaudia

back


----------



## kyeugh

rari_teh said:


> synthesis: rp scum in thread and get cleared by everybody because no way an actual mafioso would do that


*kills you*


----------



## mewtini

now that i feel a little better about both skylar and ryan i feel like i should like seshas' posts more than i do so far, since it was her who villaread them early on, but that might be me just being afraid of her Power


----------



## mewtini

mewtini said:


> now that i feel a little better about both skylar and ryan i feel like i should like seshas' posts more than i do so far, since it was her who villaread them early on, but that might be me just being afraid of her Power


this is likely not significant or fair though, because it's me subconsciously comparing her earlygame play now to the GOAT level stuff she pulled during mid/endgame tvt


----------



## IndigoClaudia

Goodbye everyone. I had fun playing mafia today.


----------



## kyeugh

IndigoEmmy said:


> Goodbye everyone. I had fun playing mafia today.


*kills you*


----------



## mewtini

noooo come back


----------



## Trebek

mewtini said:


> kyeugh said:
> 
> 
> 
> it’s kyeugh approved
> 
> 
> 
> kyeughpproved
Click to expand...

appreughved


----------



## kyeugh

yeah thats more like it man


----------



## kyeugh

btw guys i’m back with a new funny bit. lmk when you’re ready for it


----------



## mewtini

kyeugh said:


> btw guys i’m back with a new funny bit. lmk when you’re ready for it


*kills you*


----------



## rari_teh

Seshas said:


> btw I think this read stemmed from my sucky play in Push The Button





mewtini said:


> push the button was fcking traumatizing


push the button was the best, omg. gotta play it again sometime


----------



## kyeugh

mewtini said:


> kyeugh said:
> 
> 
> 
> btw guys i’m back with a new funny bit. lmk when you’re ready for it
> 
> 
> 
> *kills you*
Click to expand...

that was actually what the bit was going to be and now it’s not funny anymore. fuck you


----------



## kyeugh

don’t sad react. im sorry. im trying to delete it


----------



## mewtini

kyeugh said:


> that was actually what the bit was going to be and now it’s not funny anymore. fuck you


as for my own dead-on-arrival funny bit, i was going to revenge reply with "i'm sorry ___-chan " but i can't figure out a cringe name for you quickly enough for the joke to be relevant or funny.
this is a serious game of mafia


----------



## Keldeo

cyeugh-xan!



Spoiler



idk the context but surely this is also appropriate


kyeugh said:


> don’t sad react. im sorry. im trying to delete it


----------



## IndigoClaudia

mewtini said:


> i can't figure out a cringe name for you quickly enough for the joke to be relevant or funny.



Kyeughy-chan.


----------



## mewtini

the name i almost went with was skysky-chan


----------



## IndigoClaudia

mewtini said:


> the name i almost went with was skysky-chan


almost better than mine!


----------



## qenya

mewtini said:


> not gonna lie to you i have no idea what was up with e's role!


I was a VT up until the start of N2, when Butterfree decided to do some rebalancing and made me a terrorist instead. So for the first two days I was playing as town, not mafia. IIRC I didn't say much though - the only read I had was, as I mentioned earlier, being slightly doubtful of Keldeo, which turned out to be completely wrong. (My reads are never any good anyway, as my score to Seshas' quiz shows. So don't put too much stock in my list from earlier, I'm better once we have some actual mechanical info to work with.)


----------



## mewtini

gotcha, thanks! yeah tbh i kind of didn't remember 100% because i didn't remember you playing a lot until around when you were functionally mafia, and i thought for a second that your keldeo read was one that you threw out as mafia


----------



## Trebek

amateur hour vibe check time TM



Spoiler: the super best omega vibe



herbe - hypocop n0!





Spoiler: good vibes



mewtini - bonus points for being the person to first mention copcovers (i can see mafia jumping on a copcover bandwagon, but have a harder time imagining mafia instigating)
ils - idk the flavorspec felt good
seshas - i swear its not just that they TRed me lmao
rari
myuma
koko - something about the "is considering online status a cheaty move" struck me as benevolent
blu





Spoiler: unsure vibes



(none of these are particularly negative vibes, just unsure)
kyeugh - i want to lean good vibes on this one, but im scared about the possibility of her going "look at all the cool things im doing this game that are totally NOT what i did when i was the Bad Guy last game hahaha." dont want to read too much into that rn tho
emmy
keldeo - im scared of talented players using their powers for evil and playing themselves as benevolent, but jurys still out. maybe im just holding them to a higher standard than i should be?





Spoiler: no vibes as of yet



bfree
m+7
tofu
stryke
vm
rnp
superjolt
ultracool



i think i got everyone but if i missed someone by accident they are likely in the no current vibes category

rankings subject to change without warning


----------



## Zori

Trebek said:


> koko - something about the "is considering online status a cheaty move" struck me as benevolent


fair enough
I was thinking that mafia would do that, it's probably not as alignment indicative as I thought


----------



## mewtini

i was thinking that that remark was fairly NAI


----------



## Zori

mewtini said:


> i was thinking that that remark was fairly NAI


well
technically I was right
mafia _would_ do that (but town would too)


----------



## mewtini

Trebek said:


> im scared about the possibility of her going "look at all the cool things im doing this game that are totally NOT what i did when i was the Bad Guy last game hahaha."


huh. i know this isn't relevant because of your hypocheck, but i think i have gotten this vibe from herbe and not really from anyone else. do you think skylar's sounded performative? or is it just paranoia


----------



## Keldeo

mewtini said:


> kyeugh said:
> 
> 
> 
> question mark
> 
> 
> 
> i liked you/ryan initially, seshas solidified my positive ryan feelings, but when replying to keldeo i realized my ryan TR was mostly confbiased / i don’t totally get their posts, either
Click to expand...

Just to confirm, Ryan is Trebek?


----------



## mewtini

Seshas said:


> well
> technically I was right
> mafia _would_ do that (but town would too)


sorry, yeah - i was agreeing with you!


----------



## mewtini

Keldeo said:


> Just to confirm, Ryan is Trebek?


yes! i must wait 7 seconds before performing this action


----------



## Keldeo

myuma said:


> @Keldeo
> Based on the fact this is Cats (2019) Mafia, the mafia members are probably Macavity (the film's antagonist, correct me if I'm wrong) and his cronies. According to post history and the "last seen" bit of their profiles, Tofu, rari_teh and M+7 were online during roughly the same time frame today (4:30AM GMT). This _could_ be a coincidence, or maybe not... if they're all mafia, they might be discussing something on their private mafia chat.
> 
> Vipera Magnifica and RedneckPheonix have been online, but haven't posted anything. Mr. Ultracool is watching (or more accurately, reacting) from the shadows. Lying low...? Superjolt and Butterfree haven't posted due to real-life things holding them up, so they're free from suspicion for now.
> 
> So far I'm inclined to think kyeugh isn't mafia because her playstyle is different to the tvtropes game.


Thanks. This seems to mostly be about folks who haven't contributed that much - do you have any thoughts on people who have posted more than that, besides kyeugh? 

I get the same sense from the opening flavor post and what everyone's said that the Macavity flavor is mafia, yeah. I don't really think the online time means that much - if I'm doing the conversion right, I think that would've been about right after the Cats "afterparty" wrapped up?


----------



## Keldeo

mewtini said:


> tofu and rari were both vibing in the cats stream last night, so i wouldn’t attribute suspicion based off of that (i am admittedly wary of activity/last seen reads nowadays)
> 
> 
> 
> myuma said:
> 
> 
> 
> Mr. Ultracool is watching (or more accurately, reacting) from the shadows. Lying low...?
> 
> 
> 
> i also am probably gonna be null on him for a while, but it’s worth noting that he played like this as town in tvt
Click to expand...

lol yeah this.


----------



## Trebek

Seshas said:


> Trebek said:
> 
> 
> 
> koko - something about the "is considering online status a cheaty move" struck me as benevolent
> 
> 
> 
> fair enough
> I was thinking that mafia would do that, it's probably not as alignment indicative as I thought
Click to expand...

yeah, the way i thought about this was like
if koko is mafia and they (the people mentioned as being online) are town, koko wouldnt adress it as cheaty
if they are all mafia, then i wouldve expected koko to also be online at that time




mewtini said:


> Trebek said:
> 
> 
> 
> im scared about the possibility of her going "look at all the cool things im doing this game that are totally NOT what i did when i was the Bad Guy last game hahaha."
> 
> 
> 
> huh. i know this isn't relevant because of your hypocheck, but i think i have gotten this vibe from herbe and not really from anyone else. do you think skylar's sounded performative? or is it just paranoia
Click to expand...

Probably a bit of each, this was the post that first made me a little sus


kyeugh said:


> cop cover is good.  i think the odds that there is actually just a normal cop in this game are pretty high.  i know i was kind of against it last game, but that's because i thought the presence of a cop wasn't necessarily a given, and also i was trying to kill you all


cant draw too many vibes from it bc on surface level its a good post, but still a bit Hmmmmm about it. idk i think it was just the combination of aforementioned vibe and Must Justify (maybe im reading too harshly into it)


----------



## Keldeo

kokorico said:


> ok I'm ready to be actually useful
> 
> townreads:
> 
> ILS - hasn't said much, but what he has said has been useful flavour spec
> kyeugh and Seshas are being solvy, volunteering reads on the spot / earlier than anyone else. (Though based off last game they seem to be some of the strongest players here and would probably be more than capable of faking it)
> Bluwiikoon seems to be behaving very similarly to the way Emmy was last game! Very stream-of-consciousness, happy-go-lucky. Just doesn't seem anywhere near guarded enough to be mafia. Especially considering IIRC this is his first game?
> mewtini is my hypocop check! and also just seems to be being generally friendly/supportive of people/helping town gel? admittedly this is a bit weak
> scumreads:
> 
> Eifie is clearly lying about being a cat. she's not even on the player list!
> that's it
> I have warned y'all repeatedly that I'm not very good at this
> null:
> 
> Agree Emmy is acting differently from last game, but like I said earlier, I don't think that's necessarily indicative of anything
> Keldeo on the other hand is extremely similar: long posts where he does lots of busywork (collating posts / asking people for clarification / explaining rules etc) but doesn't provide much in the way of his own info. It still feels like a scum tactic to me, but last game he was a cop, so ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
> 
> 
> 
> mewtini said:
> 
> 
> 
> as far as the Light Earlygame TRs i mentioned - rari, trebek, blu, and seshas seem to have good vibes so far! excited for some more content to come out hehehehe. anyway rip mawile
> 
> 
> 
> Like I said above I agree about seshas and blu, and you explained trebek a couple of posts up, but what about rari? curious about what you're basing that on as afaict she doesn't seem to have said much yet
Click to expand...

Hm, can you talk to me a little bit about the ILS read / why you think a mafia wouldn't have the same ideas about the flavor? Going entirely off memory I feel like Rari has had similar magnitude of contributions in the flavor realm but you don't seem to have a read on them.

Mindmeld on Blu tbh. Not sure why more people haven't had this read actually, but I guess it's probably smart to wait for more concrete stuff than tone from him.

Do you have any further thoughts on Emmy's play viewing this game in a vacuum, or are you just neutral on her not taking into account the TVTropes comparison? 

And yes, I always play this way and there are always people who scumread me for it haha. (I would assert that asking questions may be easily fakeable but is not busywork btw.)


----------



## rari_teh

Trebek said:


> yeah, the way i thought about this was like
> if koko is mafia and they (the people mentioned as being online) are town, koko wouldnt adress it as cheaty
> if they are all mafia, then i wouldve expected koko to also be online at that time


the entire mafia wouldn’t necessarily be always online at the same time tbh


----------



## Keldeo

I actually think maybe koko doesn't stay stubborn about my playstyle seeming scummy to em as a mafia, when e knows from last game it's a playstyle thing and it's not actually a scum tactic. Kinda thin read, though.


----------



## mewtini

in re: ryan’s post. i’m not sure if i /agree/ with the overall conclusions (i think the bit about koko is a reach?) but i think i like this thought process

idk if this is a weird question? but. @.keldeo what would you say differentiates your scum from your town play


----------



## Trebek

rari_teh said:


> Trebek said:
> 
> 
> 
> yeah, the way i thought about this was like
> if koko is mafia and they (the people mentioned as being online) are town, koko wouldnt adress it as cheaty
> if they are all mafia, then i wouldve expected koko to also be online at that time
> 
> 
> 
> the entire mafia wouldn’t necessarily be always online at the same time tbh
Click to expand...

yeah, i didnt mean to say that it was a guarantee TR for koko, just that the vibes seemed most likely to lean in that direction


----------



## Herbe

Ughhhhhhhhhhhhh I'm so frustrated with myself. I failed to consider that if I played to my usual towngame early on in TVT, that immediately after my reputation would be tarnished when I'm actually town. Of course, "usual" is a stretch here, cause I haven't played forum mafia in forever, but I was legitimately trying to be town early on. I literally psyched myself out of knowing what happened to Jack d1 (I killed him) and I was like omg this flavor IS so weird!! I wonder what the hell happened??? Who killed jack????? like, in my head. not even performatively. kyeugh, you can vouch, in scumchat when i was losing my mind and mf was like "go to sleep herbe."

I also make this point because I have to pay attention to the fact that kyeugh and i are not a scumteam anymore and she's not distancing me, she's literally just reading me. And I know that I probably shouldn't be so meta cause that's not gonna wiggle me out of any scumreads but I'm not gonna censor my stream of consiousness for the sake of reads. 

Re: keldeo


Keldeo said:


> random question, do you think you like being mafia or town better?


Ask me again at the end of this game, cause I haven't played a game to its finish as town in recent memory. Right now I'm inclined to say mafia. It comes so much easier to me,,,,, also I miss having partners. I miss mawile!!!!! OOT communication is my favorite and I miss being able to bounce ideas off of other players. If anyone wants to loverize me (for real this time) please do!

Anyway I just re-caught up with the thread (and woke up for the day) so yeah. this post is long enough


----------



## Herbe

Forgot that I wanted to mention that y'all are doing the right thing by not townclearing me based on vibes when clearly I can craft whatever vibes I want as wolf! I'm just frustrated with myself.


----------



## Keldeo

kokorico said:


> kokorico said:
> 
> 
> 
> are we supposed to be considering people's online status / activity? feels a bit cheaty as it's outside knowledge
> 
> 
> 
> just ftr I'm not trying to have a go at you myuma, just wanting to clear up what the acceptable parameters of the game are
Click to expand...

Yeah there's no formal rule against considering or talking about it, but I think the general sentiment is it's an out-of-game element that doesn't really need to be brought into the game if we can help it?


----------



## Herbe

Keldeo said:


> kokorico said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> kokorico said:
> 
> 
> 
> are we supposed to be considering people's online status / activity? feels a bit cheaty as it's outside knowledge
> 
> 
> 
> just ftr I'm not trying to have a go at you myuma, just wanting to clear up what the acceptable parameters of the game are
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Yeah there's no formal rule against considering or talking about it, but I think the general sentiment is it's an out-of-game element that doesn't really need to be brought into the game if we can help it?
Click to expand...

oh yeah, I concur here. personally I think it's a bit against the spirit of the game.


----------



## mewtini

Keldeo said:


> Not sure why more people haven't had this read actually, but I guess it's probably smart to wait for more concrete stuff than tone from him.


what do you mean? i thought this was the consensus read on him (at least it was one i shared)


----------



## Keldeo

mewtini said:


> Keldeo said:
> 
> 
> 
> Not sure why more people haven't had this read actually, but I guess it's probably smart to wait for more concrete stuff than tone from him.
> 
> 
> 
> what do you mean? i thought this was the consensus read on him (at least it was one i shared)
Click to expand...

Didn't get that sense, but actually you, me, Emmy, (Herbe?) is a decent amount of the people who were posting reads early. Maybe I was focused in on the people who didn't give a read him.


----------



## mewtini

it seemed like a lot of people (me/koko/rari) all thought that blu seemed more relaxed than we'd expect from a newbie wolf
unless that wasn't what your mindmeld w koko on blu was referring to :T maybe i just got confused


----------



## kyeugh

i’m pretty sure blu mentioned having played mafia here back in the day but might be wrong? i’m a bit hesitant to clear him on the grounds of comfort level/inexperience... even if it is the case i kind of think it’s not really a great thing to base reads on, it kind of just assumes qualities about his play that i don’t think are really fair to assume


----------



## mewtini

he mentioned playing here a while ago, yeah. i'm not, like, clearing him - it's just that in the group of like, him/emmy/trebek/etc who hadn't posted much content yet, i liked his posting the best for whatever reason based on tone


----------



## Trebek

mewtini said:


> he mentioned playing here a while ago, yeah. i'm not, like, clearing him - it's just that in the group of like, him/emmy/trebek/etc who hadn't posted much content yet, i liked his posting the best for whatever reason based on tone


as someone in said group, i also agree with this tbh


----------



## Keldeo

Ah, I don't think I've gotten to where Rari had that thought yet.

Think I'm okay just letting Blu vibe for the day. Yeah he did say he's played before although years ago, and his content is not anything that really knocks my socks off, but I like his tone and presence.

@Bluwiikoon have you got any thoughts about Trebek and Rari?


----------



## Keldeo

Seshas said:


> myuma said:
> 
> 
> 
> @Keldeo
> Based on the fact this is Cats (2019) Mafia, the mafia members are probably Macavity (the film's antagonist, correct me if I'm wrong) and his cronies. According to post history and the "last seen" bit of their profiles, Tofu, rari_teh and M+7 were online during roughly the same time frame today (4:30AM GMT). This _could_ be a coincidence, or maybe not... if they're all mafia, they might be discussing something on their private mafia chat.
> 
> 
> 
> I feel like this is way too hardcore to come from mafia
Click to expand...

Eh, I more think this just antialigns them with... 2+ of that group? I don't see how this isn't something they could've noticed as mafia and pointed out to shade with minimal fake critical thought needed. 

I see where you're coming from on Trebek better and I do think I'm coming around on him a little.


----------



## kyeugh

i like blu too for the record, i think he’s felt pretty much fine. i just don’t want to do the “he feels pretty comfortable for a newbie so that’s a good look!” thing because i think it underestimates him/ sets a low bar for him for no particular reason


----------



## Herbe

I think I'm at a disadvantage reading kyeugh because of my previous confirmation bias. in the last game, I would see kyeugh's posts and be like "this is good wolf play but I'm afraid you might get scumread" cause i had that conf bias. Now that I'm in a whole different paradigm, I'm afraid of being like "oh kyeugh seems town this time! doesn't seem like she's playing wolf" bc my mind exaggerated her wolfiness all last game cause I was on the lookout for that already.

I waaaaaaaaaaaaant to trust keldeo but I'm terrified tbh. but give it a day and I think I'll settle in on town!keldeo.


----------



## mewtini

lol i was just about to ask herbe if he had any other Reads but i think i just got beaten out



Herbe said:


> I waaaaaaaaaaaaant to trust keldeo but I'm terrified tbh. but give it a day and I think I'll settle in on town!keldeo.


this is kind of where i'm at i'm just like  constantly


----------



## Keldeo

rari_teh said:


> also tbqf myuma using the login times to try and a-ha! the mafia came off as pretty towny to me imo


Okay, same question / request for elaboration to you -



Keldeo said:


> Eh, I more think this just antialigns them with... 2+ of that group? I don't see how this isn't something they could've noticed as mafia and pointed out to shade with minimal fake critical thought needed.


Also -


rari_teh said:


> I don’t think she [IndigoEmmy] sounds like someone who’s being oriented by a scumchat


this is an interesting take, can you point to the posts where you got this feeling?

Getting shades of the kind of... zany or oblique reads? that I remember rari making in early TVTropes but I'm not entirely there yet. tbh early TVTropes is kind of a blur but I remember being able to lock them in as town on d1 or d2 for that solviness so we'll see.


----------



## kyeugh

Herbe said:


> I think I'm at a disadvantage reading kyeugh because of my previous confirmation bias. in the last game, I would see kyeugh's posts and be like "this is good wolf play but I'm afraid you might get scumread" cause i had that conf bias. Now that I'm in a whole different paradigm, I'm afraid of being like "oh kyeugh seems town this time! doesn't seem like she's playing wolf" bc my mind exaggerated her wolfiness all last game cause I was on the lookout for that already.


 well if it helps, failing tone you can just work out that i’m town mathematically, because due to statistics/rng i probably didn’t role scum again this game since i just did last game. a bit of the old “numerical” approach there for you


----------



## kyeugh

kyeugh said:


> role


----------



## mewtini

a role? what's that?


----------



## Trebek

kyeugh said:


> well if it helps, failing tone you can just work out that i’m town mathematically, because due to statistics/rng i probably didn’t role scum again this game since i just did last game. a bit of the old “numerical” approach there for you


although, if we look at this game in a vacuum, you being scum in a previous game doesnt mean that theres a lower chance of you being scum this game -thinking-


----------



## kyeugh

mewtini said:


> a role? what's that?


i’m not roleclaiming this early smh. scummy inquiry tbh


----------



## kyeugh

Trebek said:


> kyeugh said:
> 
> 
> 
> well if it helps, failing tone you can just work out that i’m town mathematically, because due to statistics/rng i probably didn’t role scum again this game since i just did last game. a bit of the old “numerical” approach there for you
> 
> 
> 
> although, if we look at this game in a vacuum, you being scum in a previous game doesnt mean that theres a lower chance of you being scum this game -thinking-
Click to expand...

yeah it does


----------



## I liek Squirtles

A quick thought on myself, while I finish catching up on the thread: my Cats knowledge (meowledge) is independent of my alignment, I would know this regardless if I was mafia or town.


----------



## mewtini

kyeugh said:


> i’m not roleclaiming this early smh. scummy inquiry tbh


you got me there. i hardclaim The Man Behind the Man


----------



## kyeugh

lmfao

You are *Softocles*. Your power is I* Uploaded The Cats Wiki To Your Brain In Real Life*


----------



## qenya

Trebek said:


> cop cover is good. i think the odds that there is actually just a normal cop in this game are pretty high. i know i was kind of against it last game, but that's because i thought the presence of a cop wasn't necessarily a given, and also i was trying to kill you all
> 
> 
> 
> cant draw too many vibes from it bc on surface level its a good post, but still a bit Hmmmmm about it. idk i think it was just the combination of aforementioned vibe and Must Justify (maybe im reading too harshly into it)
Click to expand...

No comment on the ~vibes~, but on the cop role specifically, I'm actually wondering if we can count on there being a cop at all? According to the signup thread the setup was originally designed for 14 players, with additional slots being filled by vanilla townies and goons. It seems like a cop might be a tiny bit OP with only 14 players? Unless there are some mafia roles that could mess with its results.



Keldeo said:


> Hm, can you talk to me a little bit about the ILS read / why you think a mafia wouldn't have the same ideas about the flavor? Going entirely off memory I feel like Rari has had similar magnitude of contributions in the flavor realm but you don't seem to have a read on them.


Um... respectfully disagree? Looking back through the thread, the only actual game post rari made before I published my reads list was that Mawile might have been Gus (which she provided no reasoning for and later said was a typo). That and her hypocop result. Since then, yeah, she's posted more (and I don't disagree with anything she's said, except _maaaaaybe _her doubt about seshas) but at the time I don't think there was enough to base any sort of read on.

On ILS, the difference is that the mafia don't _need_ ideas about the flavour, because they already know their own roles and who did the killing. I think if ILS was mafia he would be considerably less likely to say anything about the flavour at all, either to try to hide it (if it contains hints) or to let other people waste time coming up with unhelpful ideas (if it doesn't).



Keldeo said:


> Do you have any further thoughts on Emmy's play viewing this game in a vacuum, or are you just neutral on her not taking into account the TVTropes comparison?


I'm not sure yet. There are a few things that seem _odd_:

"i was hoping i would be mafia for this game"
Said she liked the idea of cop cover but hasn't posted one
Has occasionally been acting really aggressive to people (kyeugh, seshas) and then immediately backing off
I don't think any of this necessarily screams "scum", but something to keep an eye on?


----------



## Keldeo

Eifie said:


> I am extremely pocketed by mewtini tbh and probably won't stop being so all game. just saying.


----------



## kyeugh

kokorico said:


> No comment on the ~vibes~, but on the cop role specifically, I'm actually wondering if we can count on there being a cop at all? According to the signup thread the setup was originally designed for 14 players, with additional slots being filled by vanilla townies and goons. It seems like a cop might be a tiny bit OP with only 14 players? Unless there are some mafia roles that could mess with its results.


i don’t think it would be op, cop is a pretty common role even in tiny mafia games and even if there’s no disruptive role


----------



## mewtini

Keldeo said:


> Eifie said:
> 
> 
> 
> I am extremely pocketed by mewtini tbh and probably won't stop being so all game. just saying.
Click to expand...

do people actually like, remember this quote independently, or is it just that it pops up in my signature approximately every 20th time my sig is loaded. lmfao


----------



## Keldeo

Seshas said:


> I was going to finger-of-suspicion kokorico for his attitudes towards the flavor spec and meta,


Can you expand on this part of the read?


----------



## Trebek

mewtini said:


> Keldeo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Eifie said:
> 
> 
> 
> I am extremely pocketed by mewtini tbh and probably won't stop being so all game. just saying.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> do people actually like, remember this quote independently, or is it just that it pops up in my signature approximately every 20th time my sig is loaded. lmfao
Click to expand...

yes


----------



## mewtini

kokorico said:


> on the cop role specifically, I'm actually wondering if we can count on there being a cop at all?


i really don't see why not tbh?


kokorico said:


> I think if ILS was mafia he would be considerably less likely to say anything about the flavour at all, either to try to hide it (if it contains hints) or to let other people waste time coming up with unhelpful ideas (if it doesn't).


idk if i agree with the second part of this; flavorspec seems like fair game for a wolf to try to distort or use to distract from content reads, etc. i don't see why w!ils wouldn't take the opportunity to make pretty easy initial plays - distorting flavorspec doesn't require any actual reads on players. not that i think ils is a wolf, i just don't agree w this premise


kokorico said:


> Said she liked the idea of cop cover but hasn't posted one


i kinda think she just didn't understand it tbh


----------



## Keldeo

Trebek said:


> not something i consciously thought about until you mentioned it, but i am realizing that this is likely the exact same type of posting i would do if i were scum. its just hard to think of Things To Say TM that would solidify non-scumminess when every time i think of something i immediately think "oh. if i were scum i would also think of doing the same thing bc it would appear as town haha"
> 
> TLDR, i think im still too used to the ToS playstyle of "your personality doesnt really matter if you can just lie low/deterministically figure out the game" and not used enough to having to have Thoughts in a way that i can actually present to other people


Hmm. Not sure how I feel about this actually.

Trebek, can I ask what you think is the most important thing for a town to do in the thread, vs. for a mafia to do, just in your opinion?


----------



## rari_teh

kyeugh said:


> Herbe said:
> 
> 
> 
> I think I'm at a disadvantage reading kyeugh because of my previous confirmation bias. in the last game, I would see kyeugh's posts and be like "this is good wolf play but I'm afraid you might get scumread" cause i had that conf bias. Now that I'm in a whole different paradigm, I'm afraid of being like "oh kyeugh seems town this time! doesn't seem like she's playing wolf" bc my mind exaggerated her wolfiness all last game cause I was on the lookout for that already.
> 
> 
> 
> well if it helps, failing tone you can just work out that i’m town mathematically, because due to statistics/rng i probably didn’t role scum again this game since i just did last game. a bit of the old “numerical” approach there for you
Click to expand...

I heard that there’s an entire city in the middle of Nevada that was built around this kind of statistics tbh


kokorico said:


> Said she liked the idea of cop cover but hasn't posted one


speaking from experience, she might be an actual cop who drew a redcheck and is too scared to hypo and become a target tbh

@.Keldeo response to your inquiries coming soon™


----------



## mewtini

mewtini said:


> i kinda think she just didn't understand it tbh


i say this because she replied with stuff labeled "my contribution to cop cover" in a way that made me think she intended those to be her cover, and that she wasn't trying to dodge it


----------



## qenya

kyeugh said:


> i’m not roleclaiming this early smh. scummy inquiry tbh


hardclaim: I received a role PM



kyeugh said:


> kokorico said:
> 
> 
> 
> No comment on the ~vibes~, but on the cop role specifically, I'm actually wondering if we can count on there being a cop at all? According to the signup thread the setup was originally designed for 14 players, with additional slots being filled by vanilla townies and goons. It seems like a cop might be a tiny bit OP with only 14 players? Unless there are some mafia roles that could mess with its results.
> 
> 
> 
> i don’t think it would be op, cop is a pretty common role even in tiny mafia games and even if there’s no disruptive role
Click to expand...

no? in a 14-player game, if the cop lives to D3, then there are potentially 2 living people they've greenchecked, with probably 9 people alive (assuming no abstains/successful doc protections). Then all they have to do is claim and reveal their results, and town has a ~50% chance of hitting scum just by randomly lynching, with reads probably bumping that up a bit.

I suppose this might just be an instance of me not being familiar with tcod meta


----------



## Trebek

Keldeo said:


> Hmm. Not sure how I feel about this actually.
> 
> Trebek, can I ask what you think is the most important thing for a town to do in the thread, vs. for a mafia to do, just in your opinion?


it feels to me like at this early stage in the game, if i were town i would be trying to establish/solidify a towncore, and if i was mafia i would be trying to make sure i am a part of that towncore, to make things easier down the line. but if i were mafia, the way i would do that is likely to try to make my own towncore-esque reads, since thats what i would be expecting the town to do, rather than only try to worm into other people's cores


----------



## kyeugh

actually i think the mafia should look at flavor more because every time we killed one of our own last game they glared at us in death and none of us noticed. just saying bro. just had to put that self own down


----------



## mewtini

also even if there isn't a cop there's still probably some sort of investigative role, right


kokorico said:


> hardclaim: I received a role PM


holy shit. counterclaim. koko is a wolf :O


----------



## kyeugh

kokorico said:


> no? in a 14-player game, if the cop lives to D3, then there are potentially 2 living people they've greenchecked, with probably 9 people alive (assuming no abstains/successful doc protections). Then all they have to do is claim and reveal their results, and town has a ~50% chance of hitting scum just by randomly lynching, with reads probably bumping that up a bit.


i mean yeah that math works but it would suggest cops are just op unless you have a shit ton of players which i don’t think is the case


----------



## Tofu

@Keldeo
I have zero Mafia experience!

To others: I don't mean to look sketchy based on the fact that I lurk on here and don't post, but tbh I have nothing to contribute right now. Also... First Mafia game... Trying to like learn and stuff so I will probably stare from afar like a gargoyle until I feel like I have something game-relevant to post.

Btw people watching when I am online and drawing conclusions based on that just makes me want to like... Live in a shack in the woods with no internet


----------



## mewtini

Tofu said:


> Btw people watching when I am online and drawing conclusions based on that just makes me want to like... Live in a shack in the woods with no internet


tbh invisible mode is your friend if you feel really awkward about that. i'm not on invisible (clearly) but i have the like "show current activity" setting off because tvtropes made me paranoid :(


----------



## Keldeo

Seshas said:


> kyeugh said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Seshas said:
> 
> 
> 
> I think W!Herbe is less likely to think this thought though
> 
> 
> 
> definitely don’t think so tbh, much of his posting last game was “self aware” about his (fake) position in the game
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> btw I think this read stemmed from my sucky play in Push The Button
Click to expand...

:O

Can you tell me more about this?



kokorico said:


> My reads are never any good anyway, as my score to Seshas' quiz shows.


I don't think accuracy of making reads on isolated posts actually translates to accuracy in a real game environment tbh, though it's fun


----------



## mewtini

Keldeo said:


> Eifie said:
> 
> 
> 
> I am extremely pocketed by mewtini tbh and probably won't stop being so all game. just saying.
Click to expand...

anyway, keldeo idk if this was just a meme but if it's not can you talk more about why this is? i just remember you being really weirded out when eifie initially said that and i don't think i'm playing that much more reliably right now


----------



## Keldeo

I see everyone's questions, am gonna take a break to eat and then continue to be here

*Trebek*

I'm vibing...?


----------



## rari_teh

Keldeo said:


> rari_teh said:
> 
> 
> 
> also tbqf myuma using the login times to try and a-ha! the mafia came off as pretty towny to me imo
> 
> 
> 
> Okay, same question / request for elaboration to you -
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Keldeo said:
> 
> 
> 
> Eh, I more think this just antialigns them with... 2+ of that group? I don't see how this isn't something they could've noticed as mafia and pointed out to shade with minimal fake critical thought needed.
> 
> Click to expand...
Click to expand...

…I didn’t consider that possibility. even though I still think the most plausible explanation is that she’s _yeah let’s go get ’em!_ town, this is def a thought to reconsider later down the line after we have more myumaterial to think about



Keldeo said:


> Also -
> 
> 
> 
> rari_teh said:
> 
> 
> 
> I don’t think she [IndigoEmmy] sounds like someone who’s being oriented by a scumchat
> 
> 
> 
> this is an interesting take, can you point to the posts where you got this feeling?
Click to expand...

like. for example, when everybody was shitposting, blu broke the memery by speculating why would mafia want Mawile dead. Emmy immediately followed with this:



IndigoEmmy said:


> Who seems suspicious to all of y'all?
> 
> 
> Blu and probably Mewtini don't seem super suspicious to me, but idk.


if I were her scumbuddy I’d be yelling in the PMs

there are prob other examples I could find if you want me to tbh, but I think this might be enough to show you what I’m talking about

also I kinda expected her to be more nervous if she were mafia? idk, this part is more of a gut feel than anything.


----------



## rari_teh

wtf keldeo


----------



## mewtini

uhhhhh


----------



## mewtini

it's early to vote innit

anyway
i agree with what rari said about blu/emmy - in the midst of the memery i was just thinking yesterday that a lot of scum would probably feel inclined to let it continue since it keeps town from actually getting speculation done. (i do think that, _compared to last game_, it's less outlandish to think that emmy is being coached - this is not a FoS, just a relevant thought)


----------



## I liek Squirtles

This is extremely weird but uhhh let's hold tight and see what Keldeo's explanation is


----------



## Trebek

i’m not going to overreact to this and be like “omg keldeos an exe” but it would be nice to have an explanation? esp bc it feels like keldeo asked me a question and i answered and then got voted without much of an acknowledgement to the post itself


----------



## Vipera Magnifica

Hmm... kinda weird I didn't automatically absorb Mawile's role, since I was given the role of taking over the role and power of the first non-mafia player to die.

Maybe, just maybe Mawile isn't truly dead. I think we should lynch *Mawile* just to make sure.


----------



## mewtini

i missed Vipera Magnifica, Snake Friend


----------



## mewtini

only hipsters remember when people left lynch votes on jack's dead body


----------



## Vipera Magnifica

I didn't want to post anything until after I'd read the whole thread, which I now have


----------



## mewtini

sup vm. how goes da feline life
obligatory q: any thoughts upon readthrough? vibes? comments?


----------



## Keldeo

Haha, sorry, I'll explain soon.



Trebek said:


> i’m not going to overreact to this and be like “omg keldeos an exe” but it would be nice to have an explanation? esp bc it feels like keldeo asked me a question and i answered and then got voted without much of an acknowledgement to the post itself


Sorry, I read your response, it was part of why I voted you. 

Can you go a little bit deeper on this for me? Why does me voting you without an explanation make you think I'm mafia - if I'm mafia, what do you think that I'm trying to accomplish by doing that, does that match with how I've represented my read on you and the vote itself? What concerns you about overreacting or saying I'm mafia?


----------



## mewtini

me waiting to understand this like


----------



## Zori

I can't really be on right now but I think I understand the premise behind Keldeo's vote

I still think Trebek is town for now, I think that it's kind of weak because Trebek I think is at the really new end of the mafia player spectrum


----------



## Trebek

Keldeo said:


> Can you go a little bit deeper on this for me? Why does me voting you without an explanation make you think I'm mafia - if I'm mafia, what do you think that I'm trying to accomplish by doing that, does that match with how I've represented my read on you and the vote itself? What concerns you about overreacting or saying I'm mafia?


sorry, i never actually meant to imply mafia! i meant exe in the executioner sense (aka your wincon is getting me lynched). In ToS, a common exe line would be to just immediately FoS the target and keep the foot on the gas pedal the entire time, eventually convincing the town that i am a valid lynch target, since the lengths of the days are not long enough for people to always realize what is happening. My point was that i didnt think thats what you were going for, since a) i doubt that type of attack works on forum mafia and b) i feel like you'd be too experienced of a player to do that.


----------



## mewtini

Seshas said:


> I can't really be on right now but I think I understand the premise behind Keldeo's vote
> 
> I still think Trebek is town for now, I think that it's kind of weak because Trebek I think is at the really new end of the mafia player spectrum


i get it but i don't like the phrasing of the push. trebek didn't say he thought keldeo was mafia


----------



## mewtini

ok i got ninja'd.


----------



## Keldeo

The tl;dr is that I wanted to _do something_ and push buttons and put down a vote (I don't think it's too ever early to vote, I was a little surprised by the relative lack of movement) and I also wanted to get into Trebek's head a little bit and this seemed like a fun way to do that.

I was a little pinged by this sequence -



Trebek said:


> not something i consciously thought about until you mentioned it, but i am realizing that this is likely the exact same type of posting i would do if i were scum. *its just hard to think of Things To Say TM that would solidify non-scumminess* when every time i think of something i immediately think "oh. if i were scum i would also think of doing the same thing bc it would appear as town haha"
> 
> 
> 
> Keldeo said:
> 
> 
> 
> btw, @ Trebek (and everyone), it's good to put ideas out there and stuff even if you're kinda hesitant about it! Eifie worded it better than I can I think:
> 
> 
> 
> Eifie said:
> 
> 
> 
> villagers should just post whatever the hell they want to post without worrying about how it's seen imo
> 
> (much easier said than done)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> this is scawy
> 
> TLDR, i think im still too used to the ToS playstyle of "your personality doesnt really matter if you can just lie low/deterministically figure out the game" and not used enough to *having to have Thoughts in a way that i can actually present to other people*
Click to expand...

because there's this sense of like, acute pressure to specifically post things that look good to other people rather than just post genuine thoughts, that I think is generally more likely to occur to a self-conscious wolf than to a newer-to-forum-mafia villager. I think as a self-conscious wolf it's easy to play up that self-consciousness and sort of just not do anything until the thread state settles down and you can make reads that don't draw a ton of attention to yourself.



Trebek said:


> it feels to me like at this early stage in the game, if i were town i would be trying to establish/solidify a towncore, and if i was mafia i would be trying to make sure i am a part of that towncore, to make things easier down the line. but if i were mafia, the way i would do that is likely to try to make my own towncore-esque reads, since thats what i would be expecting the town to do, rather than only try to worm into other people's cores


This response demonstrates that he knows about the towncore idea but I didn't get a firm sense of proactivity in solving or cooperation from his vibes reads post. His read on me kind of felt like he was accepting that I had been posting okay but then no-selling the entire read like "but maybe what if he's a good wolf."

Obviously it could just be that he's self-conscious and hesitant regardless of his alignment, and that would match completely with what mewtini said about him and with the mindset that he's been repping since essentially the start of the game, but I want to draw that out and I think to distinguish a wolf from a villager who's hesitant to get his feet wet I would like him to react to something that maybe blindsides him a little.


----------



## Keldeo

Trebek said:


> Keldeo said:
> 
> 
> 
> Can you go a little bit deeper on this for me? Why does me voting you without an explanation make you think I'm mafia - if I'm mafia, what do you think that I'm trying to accomplish by doing that, does that match with how I've represented my read on you and the vote itself? What concerns you about overreacting or saying I'm mafia?
> 
> 
> 
> sorry, i never actually meant to imply mafia! i meant exe in the executioner sense (aka your wincon is getting me lynched). In ToS, a common exe line would be to just immediately FoS the target and keep the foot on the gas pedal the entire time, eventually convincing the town that i am a valid lynch target, since the lengths of the days are not long enough for people to always realize what is happening. My point was that i didnt think thats what you were going for, since a) i doubt that type of attack works on forum mafia and b) i feel like you'd be too experienced of a player to do that.
Click to expand...

Ohh, sorry, I just assumed exe was another slang term for mafia. I've never encountered that role.

Do you have any thoughts about what this means for my alignment, if your thought was that I'm just probably not an executioner?


----------



## Trebek

Keldeo said:


> Ohh, sorry, I just assumed exe was another slang term for mafia. I've never encountered that role.
> 
> Do you have any thoughts about what this means for my alignment, if your thought was that I'm just probably not an executioner?


tbh, not really? reading through your rationale for it, your reads on what ive been saying make a lot of sense, and if the positions had been swapped/i had started this game with more of an idea of what to look for in people, i could totally see myself making the same reads/decisions.

the exe comment was more so oriented to frame the statement of "i want to read an explanation" than it was a genuine stab at your alignment, but after your recent posts it would definitely be off the table anyways (if such a role even existed in the first place. it doesnt feel like an exe would function nearly as well in forum play as it would in ToS)


----------



## Vipera Magnifica

mewtini said:


> sup vm. how goes da feline life
> obligatory q: any thoughts upon readthrough? vibes? comments?


I'm trying to keep neutral reads of everyone on D1 because there's nothing useful to go off of at this point. I could tunnel in on someone for something trivial like their response to a joke and then be reading everything they do as scummy due to confirmation bias, or I could just ｖｉｂｅ for now and wait for there to be some actual useful information.

I will say though that I am strongly townreading Tofu (who I live with) because she has never played mafia before, and she keeps asking me how a game of mafia works, and has asked stuff like "how do you know how many mafia there are" which wouldn't make sense for her to ask if she were mafia. Other than that we haven't discussed anything about our roles or anything about this game aside from how there are too many posts already.


----------



## mewtini

my 2 cents is that he and i post-game talked indepth about tvtropes and my MU game so there's like, some notions that i think he's absorbed from me, but that he doesn't have hands-on experience with. i honestly think that his content so far has been exactly NAI, i can see what you mean about the parts you bolded but it reads insecure town/possibly null-insecure more than anything to me

so i don't really have huge thoughts on this. i just got paranoid that it was a push on low-hanging fruit


Keldeo said:


> because there's this sense of like, acute pressure to specifically post things that look good to other people rather than just post genuine thoughts, that I think is generally more likely to occur to a self-conscious wolf than to a newer-to-forum-mafia villager.


i kinda disagree tbh? i felt this way big-time in tvt as an effective villager


Keldeo said:


> I don't think it's too ever early to vote, *I was a little surprised by the relative lack of movement*


are you? this doesn't make much sense to me either, and i don't know why (or what kind of) movement would have occurred when no one's been all that content-engaged and when i think a lot of people were just caught off-guard by your vote


----------



## rari_teh

@.Keldeo idk mate, I feel like your reasoning is kinda flimsy? like, isn’t it much more plausible that Trebek would vent about that in scumchat rather than in the normal thread if he’s mafia?



Vipera Magnifica said:


> she keeps asking me how a game of mafia works, and has asked stuff like "how do you know how many mafia there are" which wouldn't make sense for her to ask if she were mafia.


maybe she’s doing that to make you think she’s not mafia
wifom.3gpp


----------



## rari_teh

rari_teh said:


> maybe she’s doing that to make you think she’s not mafia
> wifom.3gpp


to be clear: this was a Joke™


----------



## mewtini

rari_teh said:


> to be clear: this was a Joke™


it's as that linked article (x) said! joke cover is essential!


----------



## Trebek

mewtini said:


> rari_teh said:
> 
> 
> 
> to be clear: this was a Joke™
> 
> 
> 
> it's as that linked article (x) said! joke cover is essential!
Click to expand...


----------



## Vipera Magnifica

rari_teh said:


> Vipera Magnifica said:
> 
> 
> 
> she keeps asking me how a game of mafia works, and has asked stuff like "how do you know how many mafia there are" which wouldn't make sense for her to ask if she were mafia.
> 
> 
> 
> maybe she’s doing that to make you think she’s not mafia
> wifom.3gpp
Click to expand...

I have done an ocular patdown, and I have assessed that she is not mafia


----------



## rari_teh

Vipera Magnifica said:


> rari_teh said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Vipera Magnifica said:
> 
> 
> 
> she keeps asking me how a game of mafia works, and has asked stuff like "how do you know how many mafia there are" which wouldn't make sense for her to ask if she were mafia.
> 
> 
> 
> maybe she’s doing that to make you think she’s not mafia
> wifom.3gpp
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I have done an ocular patdown, and I have assessed that she is not mafia
Click to expand...

hardclaim psychic cop


----------



## Keldeo

Trebek said:


> Keldeo said:
> 
> 
> 
> Ohh, sorry, I just assumed exe was another slang term for mafia. I've never encountered that role.
> 
> Do you have any thoughts about what this means for my alignment, if your thought was that I'm just probably not an executioner?
> 
> 
> 
> tbh, not really? reading through your rationale for it, *your reads on what ive been saying make a lot of sense,* and if the positions had been swapped/i had started this game with more of an idea of what to look for in people, i could totally see myself making the same reads/decisions.
> 
> the exe comment was more so oriented to frame the statement of "i want to read an explanation" than it was a genuine stab at your alignment, but after your recent posts it would definitely be off the table anyways (if such a role even existed in the first place. it doesnt feel like an exe would function nearly as well in forum play as it would in ToS)
Click to expand...

Huh, so like, if you're Trebek 
- you've never played forum mafia before but you've talked to mewtini about preconceptions and stuff that have you wanting to look good and understanding the importance of forming a towncore (I think? correct me if I have that wrong)
- you rand mafia, and you're the specifically self-conscious type who wants to actively look good and "leave no chinks in armor", and is maybe stressing out about that 
- and you have been externalizing it in the thread rather than mafia chat, presumably because you think overt concern for your own appearance and hedging about what you post is what looks towny 
- and you know that I'm town and that my points are actually true... 

I kind of don't think you admit that?


----------



## Vipera Magnifica

rari_teh said:


> hardclaim psychic cop


I'm saying I did an ocular assessment of the situation, garnered that she was not a security risk and I cleared her for passage. 



Spoiler


----------



## Trebek

Keldeo said:


> I kind of don't think you admit that?


little bit confused as to exactly what type of accusation you are going for here?


----------



## Keldeo

Like, maybe I'm making too much of this or projecting the wrong model of his actions or something? But

[self-conscious wolf who is scared of looking bad, and who thinks "caring about how they come across" will seem villagery]
and
[wolf who is TMIing / perspective slipping that my read is legit]

don't have a ton of overlap in my mind, besides maybe like "wolf whose main tactic to fake content is to not actually fake it, and post from a genuine place"


----------



## kyeugh

rari_teh said:


> like, isn’t it much more plausible that Trebek would vent about that in scumchat rather than in the normal thread if he’s mafia?


 not if he thinks vocalizing that self-consciousness is a towny look, as keldeo suggested in 


Keldeo said:


> I think as a self-conscious wolf it's easy to play up that self-consciousness and sort of just not do anything until the thread state settles down and you can make reads that don't draw a ton of attention to yourself.


i think everyone’s reactions to keldeo’s vote are a little odd


----------



## Trebek

my comments on your read were meant to be a critique of my own playstyle. like, i came in thinking that i had to play a certain way, and after reading what you said realized that i was actively shooting myself in the foot by playing like that. but frankly, idk where to go from there now, bc either i dont change how i talk, and this narrative continues, or i change it up, and then someone else goes "hey trebek immediately changed how he plays because someone FoS'ed him, that seems suspicious"


----------



## mewtini

kyeugh said:


> i think everyone’s reactions to keldeo’s vote are a little odd


idk. like. do you feel ready to vote? i realized after initially posting 'uh' that it was a gambit but i kind of hadn't reached that conclusion yet, so at first i was just like "wtf voting" combined w the fact that i didn't actually find a ton of issue with the post that i think sparked the vote


----------



## Keldeo

I guess idk what response I was really expecting from the first type of wolf there. 

But, well, I feel like if he's concerned about not getting pressured, I don't think that post, at face value, effects anything other than him continuing to be pressured. Does that make any sense? 



Trebek said:


> Keldeo said:
> 
> 
> 
> I kind of don't think you admit that?
> 
> 
> 
> little bit confused as to exactly what type of accusation you are going for here?
Click to expand...

Sorry - I'm trying to square my understanding of your response to me with my understanding of what your mindset would look like as a wolf here. I'm tentatively concluding that your reaction was towny, I think?


----------



## kyeugh

mewtini said:


> kyeugh said:
> 
> 
> 
> i think everyone’s reactions to keldeo’s vote are a little odd
> 
> 
> 
> idk. like. do you feel ready to vote? i realized after initially posting 'uh' that it was a gambit but i kind of hadn't reached that conclusion yet, so at first i was just like "wtf voting" combined w the fact that i didn't actually find a ton of issue with the post that i think sparked the vote
Click to expand...

i mean yeah why not. it’s extremely easy to unvote and it seemed clear enough to me that it was placed with the intention of drawing a response out of him, which it’s done. i find the surprise less weird than the fact that it kind of feels like people proceeded to kinda grill keldeo for the vote and want some sort of leakproof explanation out of him


----------



## Keldeo

Trebek said:


> my comments on your read were meant to be a critique of my own playstyle. like, i came in thinking that i had to play a certain way, and after reading what you said realized that i was actively shooting myself in the foot by playing like that. but frankly, idk where to go from there now, bc either i dont change how i talk, and this narrative continues, or i change it up, and then someone else goes "hey trebek immediately changed how he plays because someone FoS'ed him, that seems suspicious"


Hey, I don't want you to feel like you have to or don't have to change how you'll play. 

I think maybe I overemphasized "if you're town, post what you want without worrying about how you're being seen"... Maybe "if you're town, post what you think you should post, and it's on us if we can't work it out" is better.


----------



## mewtini

kyeugh said:


> it seemed clear enough to me that it was placed with the intention of drawing a response out of him


ok fair enough, i think i just had a cognitive lapse and i kinda posted before processing that it was a reaction test. as far as "everyone's reactions were a little odd" though - i can't speak for rari but going off of his earlier posts ILS had just finished catching up, i think, so i wouldn't call that one all that bizarre of a reaction either


----------



## Keldeo

kyeugh said:


> i think everyone’s reactions to keldeo’s vote are a little odd


Can you talk to me about specific reactions here? The general sense that I got was just people being confused, which I think is understandable enough because I just dropped a naked vote and peaced. 

How are you feeling about Trebek's reaction also? Do you think my read makes sense?


I'm actually not entirely clear, mewtini, how do you feel about how my vote affects your read on me? Like I understand your disagreements with my rationale for finding Trebek ~~wolfy originally, but I'm not sure how that makes you feel.


----------



## Trebek

Keldeo said:


> Sorry - I'm trying to square my understanding of your response to me with my understanding of what your mindset would look like as a wolf here. I'm tentatively concluding that your reaction was towny, I think?





Keldeo said:


> I think maybe I overemphasized "if you're town, post what you want without worrying about how you're being seen"... Maybe "if you're town, post what you think you should post, and it's on us if we can't work it out" is better.


this makes a lot more sense! i think i ended up misinterpreting your bid for understanding as a foregone conclusion that i was wolf, which ended up causing a bit of panic

frankly, at the end of the day, disregarding the internal monologue of "oh god im messing things up watch me die on the first day whatdoidowhatdoido", im not actually against the idea of an early vote like this, especially since that internal monologue is sort of what the point was supposed to be, in a way


----------



## rari_teh

Trebek said:


> Keldeo said:
> 
> 
> 
> I kind of don't think you admit that?
> 
> 
> 
> little bit confused as to exactly what type of accusation you are going for here?
Click to expand...

kinda feels like he’s trying to shade you and hoping it sticks tbqh


kyeugh said:


> i think everyone’s reactions to keldeo’s vote are a little odd





kyeugh said:


> i mean yeah why not. it’s extremely easy to unvote and it seemed clear enough to me that it was placed with the intention of drawing a response out of him, which it’s done. i find the surprise less weird than the fact that it kind of feels like people proceeded to kinda grill keldeo for the vote and want some sort of leakproof explanation out of him


am I having déjà vu?


----------



## mewtini

Keldeo said:


> I'm actually not entirely clear, mewtini, how do you feel about how my vote affects your read on me?


i don't really know! i guess my gut feeling is that i just don't think it's a play you would've made in tvt which makes me worry a bit. pretty much that and i think trebek is LHF as things stand but i don't feel like _awful_ about you ... just not as great as i did before. i also am suffering a bit from not totally understanding 538, but maybe i need to reread it again. it just felt like a more intimidating play than i've seen from you before

also that in tvt i don't think you ever started a vote train iirc


----------



## Keldeo

rari_teh said:


> kinda feels like he’s trying to shade you and hoping it sticks tbqh


No? That post is me arriving at the conclusion that he's town, because it'd be weird if he was mafia in that specific situation I posited. 

I feel like I'm not expressing my ideas very well overall today, sorry.

How do you feel about me and Trebek through all of this?


----------



## Trebek

mewtini said:


> trebek is LHF


don't think ive seen this acronym before?


----------



## mewtini

Trebek said:


> don't think ive seen this acronym before?


low-hanging fruit, a comparatively easy lynch/push


----------



## rari_teh

mewtini said:


> i just don't think it's a play you would've made in tvt which makes me worry a bit





mewtini said:


> i don't feel like _awful_ about you ... just not as great as i did before.





mewtini said:


> it just felt like a more intimidating play than i've seen from you before





mewtini said:


> also that in tvt i don't think you ever started a vote train iirc


my thoughts exactly tbh


----------



## Trebek

Keldeo said:


> No? That post is me arriving at the conclusion that he's town, because it'd be weird if he was mafia in that specific situation I posited.


this makes sense to me after calming down a bit
my gut reaction was that it seemed like an accusation, but i think thats just bc i happened to be the one being questioned in this scenario


----------



## kyeugh

Keldeo said:


> Can you talk to me about specific reactions here? The general sense that I got was just people being confused, which I think is understandable enough because I just dropped a naked vote and peaced.


 nothing specific, just like... a lot of people were like “uhhh??? what the hell this is weird” and i really don’t feel that it was especially weird. it’s NOT weird to just put a vote on someone to see where it goes in the beginning of the game. then when you came back to provide a pretty lucid explanation, a couple people (rari/mewtini) just started trying to poke holes in it for some reason. just the entire response seems overblown for what seems to me like a pretty innocuous thing



Keldeo said:


> How are you feeling about Trebek's reaction also? Do you think my read makes sense?


yeah your read checks out to me. i don’t think his response is doing him any favors but it’s not really making things worse either. feels like more of the exact vibes you were questioning in the first place i think



rari_teh said:


> am I having déjà vu?


 what


----------



## rari_teh

Keldeo said:


> rari_teh said:
> 
> 
> 
> kinda feels like he’s trying to shade you and hoping it sticks tbqh
> 
> 
> 
> No? That post is me arriving at the conclusion that he's town, because it'd be weird if he was mafia in that specific situation I posited.
> 
> I feel like I'm not expressing my ideas very well overall today, sorry.
> 
> How do you feel about me and Trebek through all of this?
Click to expand...

then why did you vote him in first place? I really don’t understand your move here tbh

my feelings: Trebek has come out townier than he was, maybe? just a little
about you, I really have zero idea what to make of this. for me it doesn’t make sense if you’re town, but it also doesn’t make sense if you’re mafia


----------



## Keldeo

mewtini said:


> Keldeo said:
> 
> 
> 
> I'm actually not entirely clear, mewtini, how do you feel about how my vote affects your read on me?
> 
> 
> 
> i don't really know! i guess my gut feeling is that i just don't think it's a play you would've made in tvt which makes me worry a bit. pretty much that and i think trebek is LHF as things stand but i don't feel like _awful_ about you ... just not as great as i did before. i also am suffering a bit from not totally understanding 538, but maybe i need to reread it again. it just felt like a more intimidating play than i've seen from you before
> 
> also that in tvt i don't think you ever started a vote train iirc
Click to expand...

Ahh. 

You wouldn't have been beholden to my mindset here, but something that hit kind of hard for me was in TVTropes graveyard chat, pre-my death, when Eifie said that all of the active town were gone (I think in the context of reversing the RNP wagon? I don't really remember.) Because I have/had thread presence and talk to people, but I'm not "active" in the sense of the opposite of "passive," I have to be pushed into taking stands, and even though it's warm and fuzzy and I can blame other people for starting mislynch wagons and everything, that's kind of not the type of towngame that I want to play. 

So like it's maybe a cop-out to say that I'm different from TVT because I am trying to play a bit differently, but it is what it is.


----------



## kyeugh

i feel like there is at least one wolf in the conversation bc i don’t think it would matter that much otherwise


----------



## Trebek

frankly, i dont think that a change in 'amount of intimidation' is necessarily alignment-indicative? ill have to mull over the past few pages for a while but honestly i think this might have improved my keldeo vibe check when all is said and done. while i personally had a mini-freakout session about it, i understand/respect why keldeo voted to far more of an extent than i understand the backlash it is getting


----------



## Trebek

rari_teh said:


> Keldeo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rari_teh said:
> 
> 
> 
> kinda feels like he’s trying to shade you and hoping it sticks tbqh
> 
> 
> 
> No? That post is me arriving at the conclusion that he's town, because it'd be weird if he was mafia in that specific situation I posited.
> 
> I feel like I'm not expressing my ideas very well overall today, sorry.
> 
> How do you feel about me and Trebek through all of this?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> then why did you vote him in first place? I really don’t understand your move here tbh
Click to expand...

the vote on me is what caused the sequence of events that then lead to the town conclusion


----------



## rari_teh

kyeugh said:


> rari_teh said:
> 
> 
> 
> am I having déjà vu?
> 
> 
> 
> what
Click to expand...

we had a very similar discussion in TVT D1 when you pressurevoted Seshas and I overreacted


----------



## Keldeo

rari_teh said:


> then why did you vote him in first place? I really don’t understand your move here tbh
> 
> my feelings: Trebek has come out townier than he was, maybe? just a little
> about you, I really have zero idea what to make of this. *for me it doesn’t make sense if you’re town, but it also doesn’t make sense if you’re mafia*


I wanted to vote someone, I thought he could be mafia, and given that he had posted a lot about his mindset, I had an idea about how he would react to my vote if he was mafia vs. if he was town. Does that help to clear it up?

Can you talk a little bit more about this bolded part?


----------



## Trebek

kyeugh said:


> i feel like there is at least one wolf in the conversation bc i don’t think it would matter that much otherwise


i actually am pretty inclined to agree with this. idk which side of the fence is more likely to be wolf at this moment, but i think theyre there


----------



## Keldeo

rari_teh said:


> kyeugh said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rari_teh said:
> 
> 
> 
> am I having déjà vu?
> 
> 
> 
> what
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> we had a very similar discussion in TVT D1 when you pressurevoted Seshas and I overreacted
Click to expand...

Unsure how to feel about the fact that it seems rari is parroting or following along after mewtini about some of this. 

I actually like that they make this comparison (^) because I think it makes sense if they're thinking (1) generally from the same POV as they had in TVT mafia and (2) from a POV that is considering my alignment / doesn't know that I'm town / thinks I could be mafia. Thoughts?


----------



## mewtini

kyeugh said:


> i feel like there is at least one wolf in the conversation bc i don’t think it would matter that much otherwise


i mean. i guess? idk i just don't really feel like it was much more than like, me/rari/ILS going "oh. what?", keldeo giving rationale, and me/rari asking about it. also i said this earlier but part of my reaction in 531 was that i thought keldeo was literally making up that trebek thought he (keldeo) was mafia as an intimidation tactic (i realize now that it was just keldeo not understanding). 

idk. i just don't think there were actually that many posts/a huge flurry about this and i don't think any of them were over-the-top? i admit i'm confused, but i'm not actually poking keldeo because i think it was a wolfy push


----------



## Keldeo

Trebek said:


> kyeugh said:
> 
> 
> 
> i feel like there is at least one wolf in the conversation bc i don’t think it would matter that much otherwise
> 
> 
> 
> i actually am pretty inclined to agree with this. idk which side of the fence is more likely to be wolf at this moment, but i think theyre there
Click to expand...

Can you two tell me more about this? Thread was kinda flagging before this so it makes sense to me for the conversation to be dominated by this discussion (well, I guess we kind of drowned out VM's entry, haha) and I don't feel terrible about anyone who's been involved.


----------



## Keldeo

Just to be clear, is the executioner that you guys are talking about usually an anti-town/wins with mafia third party, or a neutral-type third party, or like a town with two win conditions, or something else?


----------



## Trebek

Keldeo said:


> Trebek said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> kyeugh said:
> 
> 
> 
> i feel like there is at least one wolf in the conversation bc i don’t think it would matter that much otherwise
> 
> 
> 
> i actually am pretty inclined to agree with this. idk which side of the fence is more likely to be wolf at this moment, but i think theyre there
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Can you two tell me more about this? Thread was kinda flagging before this so it makes sense to me for the conversation to be dominated by this discussion (well, I guess we kind of drowned out VM's entry, haha) and I don't feel terrible about anyone who's been involved.
Click to expand...

i guess i am seeing 4 possibilities here:

Keldeo is mafia, and wanted to try and "catch me off guard" as an easy D1 vote, then realized it wouldnt work and backed off/decided i was town

Keldeo is town trying to push forward the conversation, and mewt/rari are mafia who want to turn the FoS back on him for "being too agressive/intimidating"

Everyone is town and we just had a nice group bonding exercise

I am mafia and yall got fooled B)

I personally know that the last case isnt true, but thats up to the rest of you to decide. Frankly, i think that either of the top two possibilities are more likely than the third.


----------



## mewtini

Keldeo said:


> Just to be clear, is the executioner that you guys are talking about usually an anti-town/wins with mafia third party, or a neutral-type third party, or like a town with two win conditions, or something else?


ryan knows better than me but aiui it's usually mafia-aligned but has an extra wincon fulfilled by getting some predetermined player lynched


----------



## Trebek

Keldeo said:


> Just to be clear, is the executioner that you guys are talking about usually an anti-town/wins with mafia third party, or a neutral-type third party, or like a town with two win conditions, or something else?


in ToS, exe is pure third party who only wins on the successful lynch of their (town-aligned) target. i really dont think thats whats happening here though, tbqh


----------



## Keldeo

Trebek said:


> i really dont think thats whats happening here though, tbqh


Oh yeah I understand this part, wanted to better understand the misunderstanding that we and mewtini had about your initial response.


----------



## Trebek

Keldeo said:


> Oh yeah I understand this part, wanted to better understand the misunderstanding that we and mewtini had about your initial response.


ahhhhh, ok. tbh, the intention was never really for the exe topic to actually become a relevant point of conversation, i just wanted to establish that i was trying to avoid having any instinctual responses to your vote/wanted to hear your rationale for it before saying anything (while at the same time not wanting to ghost thread)


----------



## Keldeo

Well, I know it's not the first of those, Trebek, but I think it's somewhat more likely 3 than 2, haha.

I do think if we are v/v, the groupings of like, [mewtini rari (maybe also throw ILS here?)] / [kyeugh, and I guess that's it actually] are pretty well anti-aligned.


----------



## Keldeo

Actually, nah, ILS's response doesn't really work for that since he wasn't involved in the post-explanation discussion.


----------



## mewtini

Trebek said:


> Keldeo is town trying to push forward the conversation, and mewt/rari are mafia who want to turn the FoS back on him for "being too agressive/intimidating"


i think it would be really shameful if w/w pushed on the same thing at the same time


----------



## mewtini

*at the same time like this
i must wait 2 seconds-


----------



## Keldeo

Oh also I kinda think that if we're v/v and someone involved is w, *someone* would have tried to feed or encourage my suspicion on Trebek? But the closest thing that happened to that was like... Mewtini saying that his content was kinda NAI, which obviously doesn't make sense for that.


----------



## kyeugh

Keldeo said:


> Trebek said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> kyeugh said:
> 
> 
> 
> i feel like there is at least one wolf in the conversation bc i don’t think it would matter that much otherwise
> 
> 
> 
> i actually am pretty inclined to agree with this. idk which side of the fence is more likely to be wolf at this moment, but i think theyre there
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Can you two tell me more about this? Thread was kinda flagging before this so it makes sense to me for the conversation to be dominated by this discussion (well, I guess we kind of drowned out VM's entry, haha) and I don't feel terrible about anyone who's been involved.
Click to expand...

i don’t really feel terrible either, but i feel like nothing you’ve done has really been that strange or confusing especially after you explained it. already i thought the “whoa what!?” was a bit much but i just don’t really understand all the resistance to what i feel was a fairly reasonable push to make, and it was made lightly at that. its true that the thread wasn’t exactly thriving before but i don’t think that inherently implies backlash to your vote; it just seems kind of weird that multiple people, all innocent, care this much about this. not impossibly weird, but i wouldn’t really be surprised if a wolf seized this opportunity to cast shade, either

i don’t really feel that strongly about this but yeah. it just seems like a weird thing. i don’t think its impossible that a wolf is driving it


----------



## mewtini

kyeugh said:


> i wouldn’t really be surprised if a wolf seized this opportunity to cast shade, either


oh that's true, i just didn't think much shade was being cast


----------



## kyeugh

i guess when i saw your vote i was just expecting ryan to answer and for people to engage with it and instead it just seemed like people were increasingly combative about it and i don’t really understand the cause for that


----------



## Trebek

mewtini said:


> Trebek said:
> 
> 
> 
> Keldeo is town trying to push forward the conversation, and mewt/rari are mafia who want to turn the FoS back on him for "being too agressive/intimidating"
> 
> 
> 
> i think it would be really shameful if w/w pushed on the same thing at the same time
Click to expand...

you could just be saying that bc its what we expect you to say -galaxy brain-

but in all seriousness, im starting to agree more with keldeo as time goes on - it definitely feels like there is anti-alignment going on somewhere

i do feel like if i was a wolf, i would be more inclined to try and throw shade back at keldeo than i would be to add shade to the already existing vote? it feels like a double vote onto someone out of the blue would be too risky of a move for wolves


----------



## Trebek

Trebek said:


> you could just be saying that bc its what we expect you to say -galaxy brain-


this should not at all be taken seriously


----------



## Keldeo

To be clear, by anti-alignment I mean "not wolf/wolf", rather than "specifically wolf/villager".



mewtini said:


> kyeugh said:
> 
> 
> 
> i wouldn’t really be surprised if a wolf seized this opportunity to cast shade, either
> 
> 
> 
> oh that's true, i just didn't think much shade was being cast
Click to expand...

Yeah, I agree. My thought is no one was really casting a lot of doubt on anyone. You initially on me I guess, but you kind of backed off after I explained. Rari maybe but they undercut it in literally the same post by saying they didn't think it'd make sense as mafia either.


----------



## mewtini

Trebek said:


> im starting to agree more with keldeo as time goes on - it definitely feels like there is anti-alignment going on somewhere


i thought keldeo was guessing that it was more likely a Villager Theater


Keldeo said:


> but I think it's somewhat more likely 3 than 2, haha.





kyeugh said:


> i guess when i saw your vote i was just expecting ryan to answer and for people to engage with it and instead it just seemed like people were increasingly combative about it and i don’t really understand the cause for that


idrk what else to say other than "i got confused and asked questions about it"


----------



## kyeugh

i definitely read stuff like “keldeo didnt play like this last time” and “hmmm seems odd for him to start a vote train” etc as like, if not shade then potential setup for a mislynch later
that may be a bit tinfoily and i don’t believe it really but its more the point that stuff is kind of pinging me that way at all based on a play that i still feel like was perfectly reasonable esp after explanation


----------



## Keldeo

Anyway *unvote*. I'm pretty satisfied with how that turned out.



Spoiler



@Eifie the _real_ reason that I can't rp Newcomb as town is that he ~holds nothing back~ and ~never FPSes~ and I can't help but do silly stuff like this


----------



## Trebek

mewtini said:


> Trebek said:
> 
> 
> 
> im starting to agree more with keldeo as time goes on - it definitely feels like there is anti-alignment going on somewhere
> 
> 
> 
> i thought keldeo was guessing that it was more likely a Villager Theater
Click to expand...

was mostly referring to this, just to make sure there isnt confusion:


Keldeo said:


> I do think if we are v/v, the groupings of like, [mewtini rari (maybe also throw ILS here?)] / [kyeugh, and I guess that's it actually] are pretty well anti-aligned.


----------



## kyeugh

mewtini said:


> idrk what else to say other than "i got confused and asked questions about it"


i mean that’s fair but it’s not really just you, more the trend of like... people having hostile reactions to what i thought was a solvy and somewhat toothless play, and then like. trying to rationalize why it might be coming from scum

i guess where i’m at is just, like, i feel like keldeo’s vote/push is exactly the kind of thing we _should_ be doing right now—taking minor leans we have and pushing on them to generate conversation, and running from there. the initial confusion on him dropping his vote and running makes sense, but like... idk, i just found it weird that people were so ?? about it. i honestly don’t really care about this that much but at the time it was mostly keldeo on the defense and no one was really sticking up for him so i wanted to say something about it and now i am still talking about it i guess


----------



## Trebek

Keldeo said:


> Anyway *unvote*. I'm pretty satisfied with how that turned out.


honestly, same here. idk exactly where my vibes on people have landed, but i know that itll be something i can refer to when new drama invariably happens.

(and frankly, next time this happens ill be much more equipped to respond without freaking out :p i'm too used to ToS bandwagon voting, not used to actually being able to make a case/convince people to unvote)


----------



## Trebek

kyeugh said:


> idk, i just found it weird that people were so ?? about it. i honestly don’t really care about this that much but at the time it was mostly keldeo on the defense and no one was really sticking up for him so i wanted to say something about it and now i am still talking about it i guess


wholeheartedly agree with this. i didnt exactly feel in a position to stick up for keldeo as it was happening, bc i thought that could be interpreted as openwolfing, but i support


----------



## kyeugh

here’s some catposting btw


----------



## Bluwiikoon

Keldeo said:


> Think I'm okay just letting Blu vibe for the day. Yeah he did say he's played before although years ago, and his content is not anything that really knocks my socks off, but I like his tone and presence.
> 
> @Bluwiikoon have you got any thoughts about Trebek and Rari?


If it helps, I could elaborate more about my prior experiences? ^^ For all intents and purposes I am pretty much a newbie, but if it contributes to discussion in any way I'm happy to help.

My thoughts regarding Trebek and Rari were pretty much uhhh "head empty, no thoughts". I reread a few Rari posts and they seem like they're trying their best, tryin' to contribute to discussion and stuff. Perhaps I oughta take more notes due to my ADHD, or just let stronger feelings keep carrying me :o

As for Trebek, no real thoughts, but given that you asked me about them and then proceeded to gently push them, I'd say you (Keldeo) definitely had some suspicions about them and were probably looking for confirmation. Did anything in particular about Trebek's posts seem odd to you?


----------



## rari_teh

Keldeo said:


> I have to be pushed into taking stands


you kinda weren’t when you voted trebek tbh


Keldeo said:


> Can you talk a little bit more about this bolded part?


it kinda is what it is, really. I still kinda can’t wrap my head around what you were trying to do there _regardless of alignment_, it’s just ????
I guess I kinda sorta understand it now after so much explaining, but I still have no idea on what would this imply regarding your alignment
in other words, no shade, but also no tr


Keldeo said:


> Unsure how to feel about the fact that it seems rari is parroting or following along after mewtini about some of this.


…not really? we’re just thinking similar tbh


----------



## Bluwiikoon

@IndigoEmmy Are you doing okay? Your last few posts in here seem a bit like maybe you were upset ;o; Or I could be reading too much into it!!

I would usually ask this kind of thing out of thread, but if it's game related I don't wanna uhhhhh inadvertently break The Rules


----------



## kyeugh

rari_teh said:


> you kinda weren’t when you voted trebek tbh


that’s the point; he’s trying to change that aspect of his play by taking a more active role, i.e. by pushing on herbe without being prompted



rari_teh said:


> it kinda is what it is, really. I still kinda can’t wrap my head around what you were trying to do there _regardless of alignment_, it’s just ????
> I guess I kinda sorta understand it now after so much explaining, but I still have no idea on what would this imply regarding your alignment


 he was just placing a vote based on a slight read to pressure trebek, then voiced his thought process aloud as he interpreted the reaction, and eventually unvoted as he was satisfied with the response that trebek gave. i don’t think it’s all that strange at all, and probably doesn’t really imply that much


----------



## kyeugh

kyeugh said:


> pushing on herbe


* pushing on trebek


----------



## Bluwiikoon

kyeugh said:


> i like blu too for the record, i think he’s felt pretty much fine. i just don’t want to do the “he feels pretty comfortable for a newbie so that’s a good look!” thing because i think it underestimates him/ sets a low bar for him for no particular reason


At the moment I'm just uhhhh not really responding to spec about me in particular because I don't wanna sway things one way or the other, but I just wanna say I appreciate kyeugh's thoughts here, and I feel like not wanting to underestimate the newbie feels pretty towny imo :D I think not immediately clearing me is a good play from an outside perspective, 'cause you never really know.

I'm totally town though you guys!! No guns in _these_ pockets!


----------



## Trebek

kyeugh said:


> rari_teh said:
> 
> 
> 
> you kinda weren’t when you voted trebek tbh
> 
> 
> 
> that’s the point; he’s trying to change that aspect of his play by taking a more active role, i.e. by pushing on herbe without being prompted
Click to expand...

you beat me to it oof


----------



## kyeugh

Trebek said:


> kyeugh said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rari_teh said:
> 
> 
> 
> you kinda weren’t when you voted trebek tbh
> 
> 
> 
> that’s the point; he’s trying to change that aspect of his play by taking a more active role, i.e. by pushing on herbe without being prompted
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> you beat me to it oof
Click to expand...

 fun fact about me, i have a weird habit of repeating everything i read in my head over and over in an attempt to make a shitty portmanteau. somehow i arrived at “yubeetoof” here


----------



## rari_teh

kyeugh said:


> rari_teh said:
> 
> 
> 
> you kinda weren’t when you voted trebek tbh
> 
> 
> 
> that’s the point; he’s trying to change that aspect of his play by taking a more active role, i.e. by pushing on herbe without being prompted
> 
> 
> 
> rari_teh said:
> 
> 
> 
> it kinda is what it is, really. I still kinda can’t wrap my head around what you were trying to do there _regardless of alignment_, it’s just ????
> I guess I kinda sorta understand it now after so much explaining, but I still have no idea on what would this imply regarding your alignment
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> he was just placing a vote based on a slight read to pressure trebek, then voiced his thought process aloud as he interpreted the reaction, and eventually unvoted as he was satisfied with the response that trebek gave. i don’t think it’s all that strange at all, and probably doesn’t really imply that much
Click to expand...

ah wait i think i got it now
he made a bold move to vary his playstyle and instigate conversation, and that was basically it?


----------



## kyeugh

rari_teh said:


> kyeugh said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rari_teh said:
> 
> 
> 
> you kinda weren’t when you voted trebek tbh
> 
> 
> 
> that’s the point; he’s trying to change that aspect of his play by taking a more active role, i.e. by pushing on herbe without being prompted
> 
> 
> 
> rari_teh said:
> 
> 
> 
> it kinda is what it is, really. I still kinda can’t wrap my head around what you were trying to do there _regardless of alignment_, it’s just ????
> I guess I kinda sorta understand it now after so much explaining, but I still have no idea on what would this imply regarding your alignment
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> he was just placing a vote based on a slight read to pressure trebek, then voiced his thought process aloud as he interpreted the reaction, and eventually unvoted as he was satisfied with the response that trebek gave. i don’t think it’s all that strange at all, and probably doesn’t really imply that much
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> ah wait i think i got it now
> he made a bold move to vary his playstyle and instigate conversation, and that was basically it?
Click to expand...

yep!


----------



## kyeugh

or, well, keldeo can feel free to correct me here, i don’t mean to speak for him. :x


----------



## mewtini

kyeugh said:


> i feel like keldeo’s vote/push is exactly the kind of thing we _should_ be doing right now—taking minor leans we have and pushing on them to generate conversation, and running from there.


oh i agree! but i don't think it's weird that given the state of the thread that a few people (not really 'everyone,' even - it was two of us!) were confused and asked about it. i didn't really mean to shade kel and most of the sussing you mentioned was stuff that i said when he directly asked me how i felt about him coming out of this

also fwiw i do think keldeo comes out of this looking more towny (or at least not any worse) overall now that i've become, um, literate and especially now that i see his post about trying to reshuffle his meta. i'm sorry that i didn't get what was happening earlier on :p


----------



## Trebek

mewtini said:


> also fwiw i do think keldeo comes out of this looking more towny (or at least not any worse) overall now that i've become, um, literate and especially now that i see his post about trying to reshuffle his meta. i'm sorry that i didn't get what was happening earlier on :p


this is about exactly my brain right now as well


----------



## rari_teh

yeah, if I didn’t make it clear enough I also don’t think Keldeo’s actions are necessarily mafia-indicative, esp now that I understand them
he’s in my null pile for now


----------



## Bluwiikoon

Given that Keldeo is my hypocop clear, I feel like rari's reactions to his pushing felt a bit strong. I would read the whole situation as uhhh

-Keldeo pushes Trebek to incite discussion
-rari and mewtini have their initial "wtf" reactions
-rari (or wolfchat in general) takes this as a chance to frame Keldeo's actions as extreme and/or a bit wolfy
-Everyone now has  vibes about Keldeo

Seems like people have backed down from both Trebek and Keldeo now, but may be worth noting for later? Additionally, since I townlean mewtini pretty hard I didn't read too much into her reactions to the situation.  But it seemed fairly reasonable?

rari has also uhhh reacted similarly to previous sudden pushes in tvt according to other posts, but that could also be a good cover for them, to act a similar way. 

This is all hypothetical however, and if Keldeo turns up red then uhhhh _oops_


----------



## rari_teh

Bluwiikoon said:


> -rari (or wolfchat in general) takes this as a chance to frame Keldeo's actions as extreme and/or a bit wolfy


ftr I never said that Keldeo was being wolfy iirc
it just. didn’t make sense for me regardless of alignment


----------



## mewtini

Bluwiikoon said:


> Additionally, since I townlean mewtini pretty hard I didn't read too much into her reactions to the situation.  But it seemed fairly reasonable?


oh, huh. i think it's kind of weird that you read me and rari so differently actually, unless you think she was just copying my opinions or something?


----------



## Bluwiikoon

It may be that I've seen more mewtini posts in general and thus have more of the good vibes tm. For some reason rari hasn't left too much of an impression on me otherwise. ^^; Just getting some thoughts out there, anyway!


----------



## mewtini

Bluwiikoon said:


> It may be that I've seen more mewtini posts in general and thus have more of the good vibes tm. For some reason rari hasn't left too much of an impression on me otherwise. ^^; Just getting some thoughts out there, anyway!


no, it's fair! she hasn't posted nearly as much as i have.
the reason i was wondering is that rari and i mostly agreed through most of it, though i think i softened on keldeo before she did


----------



## Bluwiikoon

Perhaps it was the frequency of posts compared to prior?


----------



## mewtini

hm, what do you mean?


----------



## Bluwiikoon

Like, not really getting too much of an impression from rari before due to lack of posts, but then the Trebek push makes them post a whole lot more in a short space.


----------



## kyeugh

mewtini said:


> i'm sorry that i didn't get what was happening earlier on :p


ftr i’m not shading you/rari, was just explaining the stuff that was pinging me


----------



## Bluwiikoon

There's still a whole lot of day left, but I feel that a lot of these discussion points/vibes do give any real!cops some good leads on where to check next. Again, though - don't feel pressured to reveal your Actual Cop status unless you're about to get lynched or have more than ~2 checks.


----------



## mewtini

Bluwiikoon said:


> If it helps, I could elaborate more about my prior experiences? ^^


oh hey! would you mind talking more about this?


----------



## Bluwiikoon

mewtini said:


> Bluwiikoon said:
> 
> 
> 
> If it helps, I could elaborate more about my prior experiences? ^^
> 
> 
> 
> oh hey! would you mind talking more about this?
Click to expand...

Sure thing! ^^ I think I only ever actually played one game before the vbulletin wipe of '08, but my involvement went as follows:

-Got lovers'd by somebody
-That somebody got suspicions thrown on them in thread
-I post like "guys, they're not mafia! I can't explain how but you just have to trust me"
-Get stabbed by mafia the next night because logically I could only be either cop or lovers 

Not sure how that particular game went thereafter, but I feel that in those days the threads and speculations were a lot more compact. Certainly, nowhere near as impressive as 30 pages on day 1!

Other than that, I have occasionally read some game threads (such as TvTropes mafia) and played a couple games on EpicMafia. Alas, I could only ever get two other friends to play on EpicMafia with me so it was always meme games. ^^;


----------



## mewtini

hey @Stryke! have noticed you following along. do you have any vibechecks/thoughts?


----------



## Bluwiikoon

My experiences are probably why I'm particularly passionate about the cop staying under wraps LOL. I was really happy when the hypocop train started in here :D


----------



## Bluwiikoon

In general I'm trying to contribute a bit more with less off-topic posts, but also, I hope everyone is keeping hydrated and looking after their selves rn! I gotta get a hydration refill myself ^^


----------



## Tangrowth

Wow, my schedule has been something. I'll do things, promise, my apologies everyone.


----------



## Stryke

mewtini said:


> hey @Stryke! have noticed you following along. do you have any vibechecks/thoughts?


ive had exactly one (1) bastard of a thought and that is what if i made a tier list based solely on responses from a magic 8 ball


----------



## Tangrowth

Keldeo said:


> Oh yeah very important question
> 
> @M Plus 7 what's your favorite Pokemon?


Oh man, put on the spot and everything. Hmmm... I'm not really sure. I think Toxapex.


----------



## Tangrowth

I think the approach I'll take for at least the time being is assume I'm replacing myself, prefer to realtime, but steadily catch up on the thread contents via reading back and ISOs.


----------



## Tangrowth

Is there anyone around right now that wants to talk to me about stuff? Haha.


----------



## mewtini

yep! hi


----------



## Tangrowth

Hey mewtini! How are you? What should I know about things?


----------



## Tangrowth

Also, this may sound really silly, but while my mafia experience is varied and long enough (10 years now), I recently-ish have come back from a hiatus and I've barely played any role madness since like 3-5 years ago, so you all will have to bear with me a bit, lol. What exactly is a hypocop?


----------



## mewtini

i'm alright! how're you doing?


M Plus 7 said:


> What exactly is a hypocop?


um, that depends on how much you've read (if you're starting from the beginning, i'd say that it'll probably help you to skim through the first few pages since a lot of it is just shitposting). also we don't have isos but i abuse the search function by putting in usernames and only searching within the thread.

in re: hypocop -


Seshas said:


> Brief Explanation of Cop CoverTM
> 
> There's probably a CopTM in the game
> We don't want Mafia to know who the CopTM is
> But if mafia finds them before they claim, we lose their results
> That would be BadTrademark Pending
> 
> Solution: Everyone pretends they are the CopTM and gives results so when the actual CopTM dies, we know all the results they had
> BUT
> If any CopTM gives a wrong result, Mafia knows instantly they are not the CopTM
> So don't give out checks randomly, or that would be SuboptimalTM


----------



## Tangrowth

I'm a bit stressed honestly, but otherwise pretty good. Glad to be here with you all even if it's been not much of a start yet. And yeah I've barely read anything unfortunately. Good to know about ISOs and hypocop, thanks for that.


----------



## Stryke

"Does *player* have good vibes?"

*It is decidedly so*
Stryke

*Signs point to yes*
Butterfree
Bluwiikoon

*Ask again later*
Keldeo
Herbe
Vipera Magnifica

*Most likely*
kyeugh
IndigoEmmy
ILS

*My reply is no*
mewtini

*Better not tell you now*
Seshas
Trebek

*Outlook good*
kokorico

*Outlook not so good*
rari_teh

*Reply hazy, try again*
myuma
Superjolt

*My sources say no*
M Plus 7
Mr. Ultracool

*Dont count on it*
Tofu

*Without a doubt*
RNP


----------



## Stryke

It would suck if I were on the table to be lynched at some point and this is somehow used against me, but at the same time, man, what a way to go


----------



## Tangrowth

What reads do you have, mewtini? Anyone I should look at with increased urgency, in your assessment?


----------



## Tangrowth

Stryke said:


> It would suck if I were on the table to be lynched at some point and this is somehow used against me, but at the same time, man, what a way to go


Are you in contention right now? Wait, how do I know the current vote tally? Please excuse all the questions, it's how I generally play but even more heightened here given circumstances.


----------



## Stryke

M Plus 7 said:


> Stryke said:
> 
> 
> 
> It would suck if I were on the table to be lynched at some point and this is somehow used against me, but at the same time, man, what a way to go
> 
> 
> 
> Are you in contention right now? Wait, how do I know the current vote tally? Please excuse all the questions, it's how I generally play but even more heightened here given circumstances.
Click to expand...

I hope not!


----------



## mewtini

M Plus 7 said:


> Are you in contention right now? Wait, how do I know the current vote tally? Please excuse all the questions, it's how I generally play but even more heightened here given circumstances.


he isn't! uh, so the current vote tally is manually counted by the mod - you vote by bolding a name. usually people kinda keep track of it themselves and share periodically. right now there are no active votes

writing a reply to your other post atm



Stryke said:


> It would suck if I were on the table to be lynched at some point and this is somehow used against me, but at the same time, man, what a way to go


hahahaha. i'll defend you and your magic 8 ball


----------



## Keldeo

Quick finishing up of stuff I didn't respond to earlier -

VM saying Tofu's town for asking him questions irl is like, either Tofu is a 4d chess master, they're mafia partners, or Tofu is just town, I think?



mewtini said:


> idk if this is a weird question? but. @.keldeo what would you say differentiates your scum from your town play


Nah that's a valid question. I'm not entirely sure how I'd play it on a new-style TCoD game, to be honest. As mafia I think I put a lot of importance into "looking good" or "doing reasonable things" - I think Skylar's right that there's a distinction between actually putting in work and trying to solve, and performatively doing so. Other than that, I guess I'm generally more decisive as mafia, although I'm trying to work on that, hehe.



Herbe said:


> Spoiler
> 
> 
> 
> Ughhhhhhhhhhhhh I'm so frustrated with myself. I failed to consider that if I played to my usual towngame early on in TVT, that immediately after my reputation would be tarnished when I'm actually town. Of course, "usual" is a stretch here, cause I haven't played forum mafia in forever, but I was legitimately trying to be town early on. I literally psyched myself out of knowing what happened to Jack d1 (I killed him) and I was like omg this flavor IS so weird!! I wonder what the hell happened??? Who killed jack????? like, in my head. not even performatively. kyeugh, you can vouch, in scumchat when i was losing my mind and mf was like "go to sleep herbe."
> 
> I also make this point because I have to pay attention to the fact that kyeugh and i are not a scumteam anymore and she's not distancing me, she's literally just reading me. And I know that I probably shouldn't be so meta cause that's not gonna wiggle me out of any scumreads but I'm not gonna censor my stream of consiousness for the sake of reads.
> 
> Re: keldeo
> 
> 
> Keldeo said:
> 
> 
> 
> random question, do you think you like being mafia or town better?
> 
> 
> 
> Ask me again at the end of this game, cause I haven't played a game to its finish as town in recent memory. Right now I'm inclined to say mafia. It comes so much easier to me,,,,, also I miss having partners. I miss mawile!!!!! OOT communication is my favorite and I miss being able to bounce ideas off of other players. If anyone wants to loverize me (for real this time) please do!
> 
> Anyway I just re-caught up with the thread (and woke up for the day) so yeah. this post is long enough
Click to expand...

Herbe scum king tbh!

I like his tone in the stream-of-consciousness stuff in this post, and in his next post reflecting on how he's going to read kyeugh. Guess I'd like to see some more actual stances from him if he can.

@Herbe, how do you feel about my reaction test on Trebek and what all happened after that? I noticed you liking posts and stuff. 



Tofu said:


> Btw people watching when I am online and drawing conclusions based on that just makes me want to like... Live in a shack in the woods with no internet


Aww, yeah, this is part of why I think reads on activity should be discouraged. Sometimes you just don't wanna play mafia and that's okay.



mewtini said:


> Keldeo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Eifie said:
> 
> 
> 
> I am extremely pocketed by mewtini tbh and probably won't stop being so all game. just saying.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> anyway, keldeo idk if this was just a meme but if it's not can you talk more about why this is? i just remember you being really weirded out when eifie initially said that and i don't think i'm playing that much more reliably right now
Click to expand...

Mm, like half a meme? It was me expressing the idea of TRing you, and the meme part is that Eifie's phrasing is more drastic than I currently feel (or probably ever do feel in mafia lol.) To why I'm reading you differently, I don't know, I just am? You've generally felt fair enough and genuine and that's good enough for me for right now.



Seshas said:


> I can't really be on right now but I think I understand the premise behind Keldeo's vote
> 
> I still think Trebek is town for now, I think that it's kind of weak because Trebek I think is at the really new end of the mafia player spectrum


@Seshas just curious, did my explanation meet your expectations?



mewtini said:


> Keldeo said:
> 
> 
> 
> I don't think it's too ever early to vote, *I was a little surprised by the relative lack of movement*
> 
> 
> 
> are you? this doesn't make much sense to me either, and i don't know why (or what kind of) movement would have occurred when no one's been all that content-engaged and when i think a lot of people were just caught off-guard by your vote
Click to expand...

I meant movement of any kind before I voted. We're like fairly into the game in terms of posts or time, I know early voting isn't a thing on TCoD much but there are people here who come from places it is.



Bluwiikoon said:


> As for Trebek, no real thoughts, but given that you asked me about them and then proceeded to gently push them, I'd say you (Keldeo) definitely had some suspicions about them and were probably looking for confirmation. Did anything in particular about Trebek's posts seem odd to you?


@Bluwiikoon good to hear more from you! I made a post about this later on (although I've now changed my mind), did you see that?

Also, what do you think of my read on rari's paranoia about me being kinda towny? I'm a little bit confused why you've mentally separated rari and mewtini's reactions since I read them as quite similar, but that might just be a me thing.


----------



## Keldeo

Hey MP, glad to see you around! I'm around if you want to talk in real time. 

Hypocop is another term for cop cover, if you're more familiar with that. 

ftr, I think I will be able to read MP fairly well once he does stuff because we just* got out of a town/town game together where we found each other pretty easily (*two months ago)


----------



## Tangrowth

mewtini said:


> M Plus 7 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Are you in contention right now? Wait, how do I know the current vote tally? Please excuse all the questions, it's how I generally play but even more heightened here given circumstances.
> 
> 
> 
> he isn't! uh, so the current vote tally is manually counted by the mod - you vote by bolding a name. usually people kinda keep track of it themselves and share periodically. right now there are no active votes
> 
> writing a reply to your other post atm
> 
> 
> 
> Stryke said:
> 
> 
> 
> It would suck if I were on the table to be lynched at some point and this is somehow used against me, but at the same time, man, what a way to go
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> hahahaha. i'll defend you and your magic 8 ball
Click to expand...

Thanks so much, everyone. That makes sense, I've played on sites where that is the case, just not commonly or anything. I am a bit surprised to hear no votes, is it typical here for players to generally wait on that until closer to EoD?


----------



## Keldeo

Spoiler: not related to anything






Keldeo said:


> You wouldn't have been *beholden* to my mindset


Does anyone know what word I could have meant here, because I do not think "beholden" works here

The closest thing I can think of is "beknownst," which, lol


----------



## Tangrowth

Keldeo said:


> Hey MP, glad to see you around! I'm around if you want to talk in real time.
> 
> Hypocop is another term for cop cover, if you're more familiar with that.
> 
> ftr, I think I will be able to read MP fairly well once he does stuff because we just* got out of a town/town game together where we found each other pretty easily (*two months ago)


Hey Keldeo! Cop cover, that makes sense. So fascinating, I love learning new terms for things.

I hope I can trust you here because I want to, lmao, but yeah, I feel likewise about my ability to see if you're town especially by d2 or d3, so I'm not too concerned about that at this time.


----------



## Keldeo

M Plus 7 said:


> Thanks so much, everyone. That makes sense, I've played on sites where that is the case, just not commonly or anything. I am a bit surprised to hear no votes, is it typical here for players to generally wait on that until closer to EoD?


Yeah, I think it's a combination of people not really tending to vote a lot and not having many suspicions. The meta here used to be a lot of abstains (no lynches) on early days, but I think we've shifted away from that.

I do want to think about building up some wagons maybe tonight or tomorrow.


----------



## Tangrowth

Keldeo said:


> Spoiler: not related to anything
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Keldeo said:
> 
> 
> 
> You wouldn't have been *beholden* to my mindset
> 
> 
> 
> Does anyone know what word I could have meant here, because I do not think "beholden" works here
> 
> The closest thing I can think of is "beknownst," which, lol
Click to expand...

Privy? Not sure what else tbh.


----------



## Tangrowth

Keldeo said:


> M Plus 7 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks so much, everyone. That makes sense, I've played on sites where that is the case, just not commonly or anything. I am a bit surprised to hear no votes, is it typical here for players to generally wait on that until closer to EoD?
> 
> 
> 
> Yeah, I think it's a combination of people not really tending to vote a lot and not having many suspicions. The meta here used to be a lot of abstains (no lynches) on early days, but I think we've shifted away from that.
> 
> I do want to think about building up some wagons maybe tonight or tomorrow.
Click to expand...

Oh wow, quite different than what I am used to, hahaha. This should be fun though.


----------



## Tangrowth

Also, your specific version of your avatar here is awesome, Keldeo. Probably my favorite from what I've seen. It's extra mystic or something.


----------



## RedneckPhoenix

hey gamers! fun fact, i'm pretty sure you show up as "online" if you even use a mobile web browser in which a tab of the forums is inactive yet open


----------



## Keldeo

MP, actually, if you're looking for things to poke into, starting at #509 is me voting Trebek as a reaction test and then a bunch of people talking about it. It'd be cool to get some fresh eyes on that but I understand if you want to try and get context first or something.


Hey RNP! How's it going?



Spoiler



gamer


----------



## Tangrowth

Keldeo said:


> MP, actually, if you're looking for things to poke into, starting at #509 is me voting Trebek as a reaction test and then a bunch of people talking about it. It'd be cool to get some fresh eyes on that but I understand if you want to try and get context first or something.
> 
> 
> Hey RNP! How's it going?
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler
> 
> 
> 
> gamer


That is fantastic, thanks. Let me take a look now.


----------



## Tangrowth

mewtini said:


> it's early to vote innit
> 
> anyway
> i agree with what rari said about blu/emmy - in the midst of the memery i was just thinking yesterday that a lot of scum would probably feel inclined to let it continue since it keeps town from actually getting speculation done. (i do think that, _compared to last game_, it's less outlandish to think that emmy is being coached - this is not a FoS, just a relevant thought)


This is an interesting thought -- are there any players in particular that stuck out to you as having potential in that way?


----------



## rari_teh

RedneckPhoenix said:


> hey gamers! fun fact, i'm pretty sure you show up as "online" if you even use a mobile web browser in which a tab of the forums is inactive yet open


oof, maybe I should turn on invisibility


----------



## RedneckPhoenix

sorry sorry i know i startled yall using an exclamation point. i only get one per month and i hadnt used it yet so i decided to do it right before midnight


----------



## Tangrowth

Vipera Magnifica said:


> I didn't want to post anything until after I'd read the whole thread, which I now have


This struck me as notable given the context for what seemingly was happening in thread at the time. I'm not sure why a player would say this and then not follow up with any reads or anything? To anyone who has meta here, does this mean anything to you?


----------



## Keldeo

Stryke said:


> Spoiler
> 
> 
> 
> "Does *player* have good vibes?"
> 
> *It is decidedly so*
> Stryke
> 
> *Signs point to yes*
> Butterfree
> Bluwiikoon
> 
> *Ask again later*
> Keldeo
> Herbe
> Vipera Magnifica
> 
> *Most likely*
> kyeugh
> IndigoEmmy
> ILS
> 
> *My reply is no*
> mewtini
> 
> *Better not tell you now*
> Seshas
> Trebek
> 
> *Outlook good*
> kokorico
> 
> *Outlook not so good*
> rari_teh
> 
> *Reply hazy, try again*
> myuma
> Superjolt
> 
> *My sources say no*
> M Plus 7
> Mr. Ultracool
> 
> *Dont count on it*
> Tofu
> 
> *Without a doubt*
> RNP


Hey Stryke, I have questions about some of these vibes. Is the magic 8-ball open for reasoning questions, or should I ask again later?


----------



## mewtini

M Plus 7 said:


> What reads do you have, mewtini? Anyone I should look at with increased urgency, in your assessment?


honestly i don't have strong reads in either direction yet; i'm pretty much splitting people into "likely/maybe town?" and "null" for now. my list right now is somewhere around this (rewriting it so it's not as dependent on tcodftalk) but is admittedly very fluid because i haven't totally sorted how i feel about the action in the last few pages


Spoiler: tierlist



*good vibes:*
- rari (by hypocop check)
- bluwiikoon (pro-keeping cop cover, feels like pure, unguarded town)
- skylar/kyeugh (different earlygame than when i recently saw her as scum, and i liked how she came off in the keldeo/rari/trebek talk)
- indigoemmy (seems relaxed? and i agree with her on blu seeming town)
- seshas (has been solvy but i'm not following her as well as i did in the last game where we were both innocent. volunteered reads unprompted, which feels good)
- keldeo (feeling better given the last few pages, i think; placing at the bottom of this tier due to paranoia)

*null:*
- herbe (has seemed relaxed, might move up; mostly afraid because he was super relaxed as a wolf)
- ILS/i liek squirtles (came in for some flavorspec, hasn't said much else)
- kokorico
- trebek
- m+7

*hasn't appeared yet/only made a few posts:*
- butterfree
- tofu
- vm
- superjolt
- rnp
- stryke
- mr. ultracool


----------



## Tangrowth

mewtini said:


> me waiting to understand this like


I like mewtini's continued responses throughout this stretch here, it reads authentic to me.


----------



## RedneckPhoenix

haha it's really funny that stryke said i have good vibes based on the relentless roleblocking i did last game. don't assume you're safe from being targetted you shrimp


----------



## RedneckPhoenix

just not with a role.


----------



## mewtini

M Plus 7 said:


> This is an interesting thought -- are there any players in particular that stuck out to you as having potential in that way?


kinda early to tell, i think - the players who were memeing most in the earliest hours of d1 are people who i read as towny right now (emmy/blu/kyeugh)


----------



## kyeugh

RedneckPhoenix said:


> just not with a role.


----------



## Keldeo

M Plus 7 said:


> Vipera Magnifica said:
> 
> 
> 
> I didn't want to post anything until after I'd read the whole thread, which I now have
> 
> 
> 
> This struck me as notable given the context for what seemingly was happening in thread at the time. I'm not sure why a player would say this and then not follow up with any reads or anything? To anyone who has meta here, does this mean anything to you?
Click to expand...

Interesting take. VM comes across to me as more of a lower volume "sit back, think hard, write a wallpost" type of person than a "post a ton in real time" person (shitposts not included), and so I think he would be telling the truth about this regardless of his alignment. I may be giving him too much slack, but I don't think him not having strong reads is very meaningful right now.


----------



## kyeugh

Keldeo said:


> M Plus 7 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Vipera Magnifica said:
> 
> 
> 
> I didn't want to post anything until after I'd read the whole thread, which I now have
> 
> 
> 
> This struck me as notable given the context for what seemingly was happening in thread at the time. I'm not sure why a player would say this and then not follow up with any reads or anything? To anyone who has meta here, does this mean anything to you?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Interesting take. VM comes across to me as more of a lower volume "sit back, think hard, write a wallpost" type of person than a "post a ton in real time" person (shitposts not included), and so I think he would be telling the truth about this regardless of his alignment. I may be giving him too much slack, but I don't think him not having strong reads is very meaningful right now.
Click to expand...

agreed, i also kind of feel like mafia vm doesn’t say the thing about tofu


----------



## Keldeo

Hmm, Mewtini, can you talk to me a bit more about your IndigoEmmy read? You seem to have more developed good feelings about her than I think I've had re: her at any point in this game.



kyeugh said:


> Spoiler
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RedneckPhoenix said:
> 
> 
> 
> just not with a role.
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 584
Click to expand...

Skylar what does this mean


----------



## Tangrowth

kyeugh said:


> rari_teh said:
> 
> 
> 
> like, isn’t it much more plausible that Trebek would vent about that in scumchat rather than in the normal thread if he’s mafia?
> 
> 
> 
> not if he thinks vocalizing that self-consciousness is a towny look, as keldeo suggested in
> 
> 
> Keldeo said:
> 
> 
> 
> I think as a self-conscious wolf it's easy to play up that self-consciousness and sort of just not do anything until the thread state settles down and you can make reads that don't draw a ton of attention to yourself.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> i think everyone’s reactions to keldeo’s vote are a little odd
Click to expand...

This is quite the ping.


----------



## kyeugh

Keldeo said:


> Skylar what does this mean


----------



## mewtini

Keldeo said:


> Hmm, Mewtini, can you talk to me a bit more about your IndigoEmmy read? You seem to have more developed good feelings about her than I think I've had re: her at any point in this game.


they're not strongly positive feelings, i just think she sounded stream-of-consciousness in places. also i'm trying to avoid the reflex of getting weird about her posting so differently from tvt; she isn't far from null


----------



## Tangrowth

rari_teh said:


> Trebek said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Keldeo said:
> 
> 
> 
> I kind of don't think you admit that?
> 
> 
> 
> little bit confused as to exactly what type of accusation you are going for here?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> kinda feels like he’s trying to shade you and hoping it sticks tbqh
> 
> 
> kyeugh said:
> 
> 
> 
> i think everyone’s reactions to keldeo’s vote are a little odd
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> kyeugh said:
> 
> 
> 
> i mean yeah why not. it’s extremely easy to unvote and it seemed clear enough to me that it was placed with the intention of drawing a response out of him, which it’s done. i find the surprise less weird than the fact that it kind of feels like people proceeded to kinda grill keldeo for the vote and want some sort of leakproof explanation out of him
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> am I having déjà vu?
Click to expand...

Love this response.


----------



## kyeugh

M Plus 7 said:


> Love this response.


how come


----------



## Tangrowth

Okay, that may be enough for now, but I at least have a couple of town reads out of it and a couple of ???? so that's something.



mewtini said:


> M Plus 7 said:
> 
> 
> 
> What reads do you have, mewtini? Anyone I should look at with increased urgency, in your assessment?
> 
> 
> 
> honestly i don't have strong reads in either direction yet; i'm pretty much splitting people into "likely/maybe town?" and "null" for now. my list right now is somewhere around this (rewriting it so it's not as dependent on tcodftalk) but is admittedly very fluid because i haven't totally sorted how i feel about the action in the last few pages
> 
> 
> Spoiler: tierlist
> 
> 
> 
> *good vibes:*
> - rari (by hypocop check)
> - bluwiikoon (pro-keeping cop cover, feels like pure, unguarded town)
> - skylar/kyeugh (different earlygame than when i recently saw her as scum, and i liked how she came off in the keldeo/rari/trebek talk)
> - indigoemmy (seems relaxed? and i agree with her on blu seeming town)
> - seshas (has been solvy but i'm not following her as well as i did in the last game where we were both innocent. volunteered reads unprompted, which feels good)
> - keldeo (feeling better given the last few pages, i think; placing at the bottom of this tier due to paranoia)
> 
> *null:*
> - herbe (has seemed relaxed, might move up; mostly afraid because he was super relaxed as a wolf)
> - ILS/i liek squirtles (came in for some flavorspec, hasn't said much else)
> - kokorico
> - trebek
> - m+7
> 
> *hasn't appeared yet/only made a few posts:*
> - butterfree
> - tofu
> - vm
> - superjolt
> - rnp
> - stryke
> - mr. ultracool
Click to expand...

Thanks so much for this. I'll try to circle back and engage you on any differences / specific thoughts and such once I get more integrated.


----------



## rari_teh

skylar what kind of cursed 90s mario shovelware are you resurrecting lmao


----------



## Tangrowth

mewtini said:


> M Plus 7 said:
> 
> 
> 
> This is an interesting thought -- are there any players in particular that stuck out to you as having potential in that way?
> 
> 
> 
> kinda early to tell, i think - the players who were memeing most in the earliest hours of d1 are people who i read as towny right now (emmy/blu/kyeugh)
Click to expand...

Good to know.


----------



## Tangrowth

Keldeo said:


> M Plus 7 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Vipera Magnifica said:
> 
> 
> 
> I didn't want to post anything until after I'd read the whole thread, which I now have
> 
> 
> 
> This struck me as notable given the context for what seemingly was happening in thread at the time. I'm not sure why a player would say this and then not follow up with any reads or anything? To anyone who has meta here, does this mean anything to you?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Interesting take. VM comes across to me as more of a lower volume "sit back, think hard, write a wallpost" type of person than a "post a ton in real time" person (shitposts not included), and so I think he would be telling the truth about this regardless of his alignment. I may be giving him too much slack, but I don't think him not having strong reads is very meaningful right now.
Click to expand...

This is helpful, thanks. I got a bit of a sense of that too in a subsequent post he made, so this probably falls into NAI then.


----------



## Tangrowth

kyeugh said:


> Keldeo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> M Plus 7 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Vipera Magnifica said:
> 
> 
> 
> I didn't want to post anything until after I'd read the whole thread, which I now have
> 
> 
> 
> This struck me as notable given the context for what seemingly was happening in thread at the time. I'm not sure why a player would say this and then not follow up with any reads or anything? To anyone who has meta here, does this mean anything to you?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Interesting take. VM comes across to me as more of a lower volume "sit back, think hard, write a wallpost" type of person than a "post a ton in real time" person (shitposts not included), and so I think he would be telling the truth about this regardless of his alignment. I may be giving him too much slack, but I don't think him not having strong reads is very meaningful right now.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> agreed, i also kind of feel like mafia vm doesn’t say the thing about tofu
Click to expand...

Yeah, I thought that was notable... although it could be a straight-up pocketing attempt that he felt sort of compelled to make given the circumstances.


----------



## kyeugh

mewtini said:


> they're not strongly positive feelings, i just think she sounded stream-of-consciousness in places. also i'm trying to avoid the reflex of getting weird about her posting so differently from tvt; she isn't far from null


 can you expand on what you feel is different about her posting? i feel like her activity in tvt was characterized by the stream of consciousness/memeing thing you’ve mentioned (present in this game so far), alongside reacting intensely to suspicion on her (present in this game), and being persuaded between votes fairly rapidly (n/a in this game so far). i’ve been getting pretty much identical vibes from her overall


----------



## Tangrowth

kyeugh said:


> M Plus 7 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Love this response.
> 
> 
> 
> how come
Click to expand...

Glad you asked, I should have elaborated. It felt real as I read it. I also think there's a bit of irony in the accusation -- a shading of someone that rari is accusing of shading -- that seems more natural of a town player than a manufactured read, if that makes sense.


----------



## kyeugh

rari_teh said:


> skylar what kind of cursed 90s mario shovelware are you resurrecting lmao



to tell the truth when i feel some kind of way about a post i just search through my camera roll for some kind of reaction image but i spent so long doing that i forgot what i was going to post and got distracted by the mario study cards


----------



## mewtini

kyeugh said:


> mewtini said:
> 
> 
> 
> they're not strongly positive feelings, i just think she sounded stream-of-consciousness in places. also i'm trying to avoid the reflex of getting weird about her posting so differently from tvt; she isn't far from null
> 
> 
> 
> can you expand on what you feel is different about her posting? i feel like her activity in tvt was characterized by the stream of consciousness/memeing thing you’ve mentioned (present in this game so far), alongside reacting intensely to suspicion on her (present in this game), and being persuaded between votes fairly rapidly (n/a in this game so far). i’ve been getting pretty much identical vibes from her overall
Click to expand...

honestly it's just that she's more serious/far less zany than she was in tvt (see: her mysterious informant reveal) to the point where i'm not thinking "ok, there's no way she's coached mafia" like i was then, as much as i tinfoiled in tvt. this is so not a real read on my part though, because it's perfectly plausible that she just doesn't have a role like MI where she roleplayed it or whatever, and the SoD environment here is so different from the one in tvt


----------



## mewtini

kyeugh said:


> when i feel some kind of way about a post


im scared


----------



## Tangrowth

Right now I'm feeling good enough about mewtini, rari, and Keldeo (unlikely ever lynching him d1 anyway for expected value reasons) to not want to vote them today. That's at least a starting point. My brain is increasingly fuzzy, so I'll return after sleep and things. I should be able to find enough time to continue digging in between work. I'm really enjoying this already.


----------



## Stryke

RedneckPhoenix said:


> haha it's really funny that stryke said i have good vibes based on the relentless roleblocking i did last game. don't assume you're safe from being targetted you shrimp


I was praying it would roll for bad vibes, but alas...


----------



## Stryke

Stryke said:


> RedneckPhoenix said:
> 
> 
> 
> haha it's really funny that stryke said i have good vibes based on the relentless roleblocking i did last game. don't assume you're safe from being targetted you shrimp
> 
> 
> 
> I was praying it would roll for bad vibes, but alas...
Click to expand...

(To be clear: I don't think RNP is scum atm, I just think it wouldve been funny if the magic 8 call decided his vibes were rancid)


----------



## RedneckPhoenix

i will bury you in a grave surrounded by hornets nests so your funeral will be a painful affair as your life was


----------



## mewtini

a last note on emmy is that i think she's the likeliest to have a rapidly-changing meta, so i just want to wait to hear more from her tbh


----------



## kyeugh

mewtini said:


> kyeugh said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> mewtini said:
> 
> 
> 
> they're not strongly positive feelings, i just think she sounded stream-of-consciousness in places. also i'm trying to avoid the reflex of getting weird about her posting so differently from tvt; she isn't far from null
> 
> 
> 
> can you expand on what you feel is different about her posting? i feel like her activity in tvt was characterized by the stream of consciousness/memeing thing you’ve mentioned (present in this game so far), alongside reacting intensely to suspicion on her (present in this game), and being persuaded between votes fairly rapidly (n/a in this game so far). i’ve been getting pretty much identical vibes from her overall
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> honestly it's just that she's more serious/far less zany than she was in tvt (see: her mysterious informant reveal) to the point where i'm not thinking "ok, there's no way she's coached mafia" like i was then, as much as i tinfoiled in tvt. this is so not a real read on my part though, because it's perfectly plausible that she just doesn't have a role like MI where she roleplayed it or whatever, and the SoD environment here is so different from the one in tvt
Click to expand...

hmmm okay that checks out. i guess personally i’m feeling like this is basically exactly how i’d expect her to act as town, but at the same time, maybe if she’s scum her teammates are encouraging her to act as normal as possible? but when you tell someone to act normal, it affects their perception of normalcy, right!? :woweek:


----------



## RedneckPhoenix

http://imgur.com/a/Yxxtfhm


day one: i'm doing recon on the cats. i believe one may have saw me. i must be careful in my future endeavors to complete the mission


----------



## mewtini

yeah, i guess i just think that she's reined in a bit right now compared to when she was town in last game. but i think there's a > 50% chance that it's circumstantial and she's just town


----------



## mewtini

also i'm gonna be honest and say that due to Forum Revival TV Tropes Mafia Revival trauma i'm just going to be a bit reserved in reading emmy/rnp/herbe :')


----------



## Herbe

kyeugh said:


> Herbe said:
> 
> 
> 
> I think I'm at a disadvantage reading kyeugh because of my previous confirmation bias. in the last game, I would see kyeugh's posts and be like "this is good wolf play but I'm afraid you might get scumread" cause i had that conf bias. Now that I'm in a whole different paradigm, I'm afraid of being like "oh kyeugh seems town this time! doesn't seem like she's playing wolf" bc my mind exaggerated her wolfiness all last game cause I was on the lookout for that already.
> 
> 
> 
> well if it helps, failing tone you can just work out that i’m town mathematically, because due to statistics/rng i probably didn’t role scum again this game since i just did last game. a bit of the old “numerical” approach there for you
Click to expand...

isn't that the gambler's fallacy? a series of independent events has no effect on each other's probabilities



Keldeo said:


> how do you feel about my reaction test on Trebek and what all happened after that? I noticed you liking posts and stuff.


when that happened I knew immediately that you were pushing on him, but not actually going "Lynch Trebek" so I kinda just sat down and tried to have faith in you/your push plan

i think me liking posts might be the purest stream of concsiousness that you can get out of me cause i don't remember anything I previously liked, 0 strategy goes into "like placement"

anyway i'm tired and will probably be of more use tomorrow. does the day phase end tomorrow? I'll have to get up before 2 pm, ughhh


----------



## kyeugh

honestly yeah. i think what’s going to form my read on emmy this game will be her votes more than anything. that’s the one core piece of her play that i think a theoretical scum team would want to exert control over. of course, now that i say this...


----------



## Herbe

mewtini said:


> also i'm gonna be honest and say that due to Forum Revival TV Tropes Mafia Revival trauma i'm just going to be a bit reserved in reading emmy/rnp/herbe :')


fair take tbh.


----------



## kyeugh

Herbe said:


> isn't that the gambler's fallacy? a series of independent events has no effect on each other's probabilities


nope


----------



## mewtini

Herbe said:


> does the day phase end tomorrow? I'll have to get up before 2 pm, ughhh


no it ends on the 2nd!


----------



## kyeugh

i need to remember to abuse the bookmarks feature this game


----------



## Herbe

mewtini said:


> Herbe said:
> 
> 
> 
> does the day phase end tomorrow? I'll have to get up before 2 pm, ughhh
> 
> 
> 
> no it ends on the 2nd!
Click to expand...

niiiiiiice.



kyeugh said:


> Herbe said:
> 
> 
> 
> isn't that the gambler's fallacy? a series of independent events has no effect on each other's probabilities
> 
> 
> 
> nope
Click to expand...


----------



## rari_teh

mewtini said:


> also i'm gonna be honest and say that due to Forum Revival TV Tropes Mafia Revival trauma i'm just going to be a bit reserved in reading emmy/rnp/herbe :')


me, but with kyeugh tbh


----------



## rari_teh

mewtini said:


> Herbe said:
> 
> 
> 
> does the day phase end tomorrow? I'll have to get up before 2 pm, ughhh
> 
> 
> 
> no it ends on the 2nd!
Click to expand...

what? I could swear it’d end tomorrow at 6pm UTC


----------



## mewtini

rari_teh said:


> me, but with kyeugh tbh


yeah, i kinda feel the same way - i think i just need to be more plugged into my gut feeling than i was in tvt. when i got scared because everyone else TRed her but me.,



JackPK said:


> *Night One will begin June 2 at 3pm EST/7pm UTC*.


----------



## kyeugh

i find it hard to believe anyone could not TR me in any game tbh


----------



## mewtini

i love that herbe is basically just trying to pay his reparations now


----------



## Herbe

mewtini said:


> i love that herbe is basically just trying to pay his reparations now


me re: my presence in TVT: "i'm sorry i'm sorry i'm trying to delete it"


----------



## Herbe

Herbe said:


> mewtini said:
> 
> 
> 
> i love that herbe is basically just trying to pay his reparations now
> 
> 
> 
> me re: my presence in TVT: "i'm sorry i'm sorry i'm trying to delete it"
Click to expand...

jk i'm actually pleased with my TVT presence I just have more work to do to in this game bc of it. which isn't necessarily a bad thing


----------



## kyeugh

Herbe said:


> mewtini said:
> 
> 
> 
> i love that herbe is basically just trying to pay his reparations now
> 
> 
> 
> me re: my presence in TVT: "i'm sorry i'm sorry i'm trying to delete it"
Click to expand...

you should wear it like a badge of honor


----------



## Herbe

kyeugh said:


> you should wear it like a badge of honor


ninja'd you >:D


----------



## rari_teh

Herbe said:


> mewtini said:
> 
> 
> 
> i love that herbe is basically just trying to pay his reparations now
> 
> 
> 
> me re: my presence in TVT: "i'm sorry i'm sorry i'm trying to delete it"
Click to expand...

I’ll say this much: if you’re mafia rn it’ll be a long way until I’ll be able to trust you as town in other game again lol


----------



## mewtini

Herbe said:


> kyeugh said:
> 
> 
> 
> you should wear it like a badge of honor
> 
> 
> 
> ninja'd you >:D
Click to expand...

skylar/herbe w/w confirmed. too much of a mindmeld to be a coincidence imo??!?!?!?!


----------



## Keldeo

Random thoughts: I thought MP was fine while he was here, though not a shining beacon of towniness (yet?) - I think the heftiest read I can make is that he didn't seem informed. I think if Tofu is mafia, VM is mafia, but not necessarily the other way around - I can see the idea that he probably doesn't need to post that information if he is mafia and she is town, but I think it's still possible that he would, since Tofu would be aware of it. Stryke's 8-ball has Interesting(TM) reads. I really want to townread Herbe for Carefree Like Placement, but like, it's Carefree Like Placement. 

I do want to do like, a wagon building exercise, given that we're about 1.5 days from the deadline... If you _had_ to vote, even if you're not super confident or it's only for now, where would you vote?


----------



## rari_teh

Keldeo said:


> I thought MP was fine while he was here, though not a shining beacon of towniness (yet?) - I think the heftiest read I can make is that he didn't seem informed


my read on M+7 is pretty much the same as yours tbh. he did seem like he was legit commenting on past happenings to give us actual insight
I don’t know him at all, but that vibed well with me

if EoD was like right now I’d probably either inactivelynch in panic or haphazardly pick someone from my null pile that other people are voting on, because I legit have no real scumreads atm


----------



## Keldeo

...I ask, as I scroll through the playerlist not really wanting to vote anyone.

I am going to roll with my gut and vote *myuma*, for now in italics. I think my second choice would be... Mr. Ultracool? Not sure.

It feels flatly unlikely that all scum are in the inactives right now, but most of everyone active has seemed kind of towny to me at some point, so idk.

@Eifie are you proud of me.


----------



## mewtini

someone from null or inactive i think. among people who have been active, maybe myuma?


----------



## mewtini

ok and now i see that you posted as much. nice


----------



## mewtini

Keldeo said:


> I think my second choice would be... Mr. Ultracool?


really? why? i think it’s kinda impossible to know about him when all he did preclaim in tvt was ... exactly what he’s doing now


----------



## mewtini

Keldeo said:


> I think if Tofu is mafia, VM is mafia, but not necessarily the other way around - I can see the idea that he probably doesn't need to post that information if he is mafia and she is town, but I think it's still possible that he would, since Tofu would be aware of it.


i agree with this i think


----------



## Trebek

im also leaning towards inactive, but if i had to pick someone who has been active, i would probably say uhhhm rari? i think im still having difficulty vibing with some of her reactions when i was getting lynched

mainly 


rari_teh said:


> kinda feels like he’s trying to shade you and hoping it sticks tbqh


like i can understand her not understanding keldeo's motives for voting me, but this particular message just felt a little too much of either a) pointing the FoS back onto Keldeo or b) convince me that shes my Friend and should be Town


veeeeeeeery light read on this and could be easily convinced otherwise, but if i had to pick thats what id go for.


----------



## mewtini

mewtini said:


> Keldeo said:
> 
> 
> 
> I think my second choice would be... Mr. Ultracool?
> 
> 
> 
> really? why? i think it’s kinda impossible to know about him when all he did preclaim in tvt was ... exactly what he’s doing now
Click to expand...

okay to be fair i’m now remembering he made like, two troperiffic posts i guess. but still.


----------



## mewtini

Trebek said:


> i would probably say uhhhm rari?


why rari over me?


----------



## mewtini

oh is it literally that quote, i see


----------



## Trebek

mewtini said:


> Trebek said:
> 
> 
> 
> i would probably say uhhhm rari?
> 
> 
> 
> why rari over me?
Click to expand...




mewtini said:


> oh is it literally that quote, i see


that quote is the main catalyst. i guess the way i interpreted it was that both of you were confused about the decision, but it felt like rari was trying to... idk... use her confusion to push things? instead of just voicing confusion? felt like a bit more agressive confusion than you demonstrated.


----------



## rari_teh

Trebek said:


> like i can understand her not understanding keldeo's motives for voting me, but this particular message just felt a little too much of either a) pointing the FoS back onto Keldeo or b) convince me that shes my Friend and should be Town


I know that just Stating This™ probably won’t do nothing, but it’s the truth really: that was just me genuinely saying what I was thinking about the situation – which is no longer what I subscribe to, mind you


----------



## Keldeo

mewtini said:


> mewtini said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Keldeo said:
> 
> 
> 
> I think my second choice would be... Mr. Ultracool?
> 
> 
> 
> really? why? i think it’s kinda impossible to know about him when all he did preclaim in tvt was ... exactly what he’s doing now
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> okay to be fair i’m now remembering he made like, two troperiffic posts i guess. but still.
Click to expand...

Yeah. Basically I knew he'd been here and reacting, but I couldn't remember any of his posts off the top of my head, as opposed to in TVTropes. Although I think his troping was all that made me originally not want to vote him there, lol.


----------



## Trebek

rari_teh said:


> Trebek said:
> 
> 
> 
> like i can understand her not understanding keldeo's motives for voting me, but this particular message just felt a little too much of either a) pointing the FoS back onto Keldeo or b) convince me that shes my Friend and should be Town
> 
> 
> 
> I know that just Stating This™ probably won’t do nothing, but it’s the truth really: that was just me genuinely saying what I was thinking about the situation – which is no longer what I subscribe to, mind you
Click to expand...

thats what i meant by very light read. i imagine once more discussion about other things ends up happening, the unideal vibes will probably go away. just a gut feeling i had in the moment.


----------



## mewtini

Keldeo said:


> Yeah. Basically I knew he'd been here and reacting, but I couldn't remember any of his posts off the top of my head, as opposed to in TVTropes. Although I think his troping was all that made me originally not want to vote him there, lol.


he hasn’t posted in here yet really i think, except to take a couple of semi-jovial posts literally (which he also did in tvt, which is also NAI for him now i think). he’ll probably be hard to sort honestly :/
i recall feeling the same way about voting him there too


----------



## Keldeo

Hmm, I don't really see that from rari the same way you do, Trebek. It feels like a natural reaction given that they misinterpreted my post that way.

@M Plus 7 when you get back, what did you like about my posting that you read earlier?

Have a wonderful night all o/


----------



## rari_teh

I think I’m also going to sleep tbh
nighty night to y’all who’s stayin’ <3


----------



## Herbe

Keldeo said:


> I do want to do like, a wagon building exercise, given that we're about 1.5 days from the deadline... If you _had_ to vote, even if you're not super confident or it's only for now, where would you vote?


if I had to vote.... for some reason I'd lean towards a kokorico vote. can't put my finger on why... i'd say vibes, but that might not be a "signal" as much as "amplified noise"

i'm using a lot of quotation marks today aren't i


----------



## Trebek

Keldeo said:


> Hmm, I don't really see that from rari the same way you do, Trebek. It feels like a natural reaction given that they misinterpreted my post that way.


the vibes i was unsure about were particularly from the reaction, but more from _how_ it happened. idk, im more likely than not splitting hairs over this, but it was an interesting thought experiment


----------



## Trebek

Trebek said:


> it was an interesting thought experiment


just to make clear, im not actually pushing rari or anything, this is mostly just me throwing my thoughts onto the page in response to keldeo's hypothetical lynchtrain question


----------



## haneko

Keldeo said:


> I get the same sense from the opening flavor post and what everyone's said that the Macavity flavor is mafia, yeah. I don't really think the online time means that much - if I'm doing the conversion right, I think that would've been about right after the Cats "afterparty" wrapped up?


That makes a lot of sense, then. I missed the Cats stream.

(I'm currently reading through all the posts I missed while I was asleep and figuring out how I went from "good vibes" to "lynch candidate" )


----------



## haneko

@Tofu 
Sorry if I made you feel uncomfortable! That wasn't my intention at all


----------



## haneko

_Current thoughts on the game:_

why does mafia take so much effort to play

Keldeo comes across as having an agenda, seeing as they're trying to push everyone to form a more solid town group. Seshas, rari, mewtini, & kyeugh overall seem pretty town to me. I haven't paid enough attention to Trebek & Herbe to really give a read on them tbh. Maybe because I just woke up & I'm sleepy.

Mr. Ultracool has been reacting without giving their opinions on the game... so I guess I'd vote for them. Even if they're not mafia, being voted for might provoke them into responding.

sorry for the triple post! Pretty sure that's bad practice. I will also refrain from looking at people's login times in the future; I didn't know it made people uncomfortable and/or went against the mafia spirit. Sorry everyone!


----------



## Trebek

myuma said:


> Keldeo comes across as having an agenda, seeing as they're trying to push everyone to form a more solid town group.


i guess this makes sense? i dont think it necessarily comes across as scum-indicative though, to me it seems mostly like a desire to see more gameplay, like what happened during the vote on me

tbh, i am saying this without actually knowing if you meant your read on keldeo as positive or negative, so this could be a completely useless statement lmao


before i actually fall asleep tho i should probably provide a minor update to where i stand, so that my thoughts are out there before i dissapear. most of my vibes have not changed, but i just want to compile some alterations based on what happened between keldeo and i. this should all have been said before, but its here in one spot.

keldeo: improved vibes
i may have lost 10 years of my life to this whole debacle, but at the end of the day i still respect the plays, and it still reads towny to me (there is the possibility that keldeo is wolf looking for LHF and then 'decided' that i came across town when he realized there would be backlash, but the vibes i get from that line dont feel particularly vibey)

kyeugh: minorly improved vibes
i got good vibes from the discourse between kyeugh and mewtini/rari about the logic behind the vote, but the minor reservations from my last VibeCheck still stand to some extent

mewtini/rari: no change in vibes, increased focus
i'm still seeing this whole scenario the way keldeo phrased it: if both keldeo and i are town (which i think is true), then it is highly likely that between kyeugh and mewt/rari, there is some form of opposition happening. i dont sense nearly strong enough vibes to determine which side would be which if this ended up being the case, so i dont want to make sweeping vibechecks based off of it (outside of the minor kyeugh vibecheck above), but i want to make sure that i keep the proceedings in mind when new conversations start happening (will mewt and rari always have similar opinions? will kyeugh butt heads with them again? will i ever stop using the word 'vibe' to describe all of my reads? find out next time on Cats!)

Will probably wake up and regret the phrasing on half of this post but i wanted to get something out there to spark conversation in the morning if nothing else.


----------



## Tofu

myuma said:


> @Tofu
> Sorry if I made you feel uncomfortable! That wasn't my intention at all


S'all good(man); I just like to go around my life in sneak mode


----------



## Mr. Ultracool

myuma said:


> Vipera Magnifica and RedneckPheonix have been online, but haven't posted anything. Mr. Ultracool is watching (or more accurately, reacting) from the shadows. Lying low...? Superjolt and Butterfree haven't posted due to real-life things holding them up, so they're free from suspicion for now.


I'm not lurking; I'm just not sure what to contribute to the discussion. Day 1 is always confusing, because no one knows anything yet


----------



## qenya

Keldeo said:


> ...I ask, as I scroll through the playerlist not really wanting to vote anyone.
> 
> I am going to roll with my gut and vote *myuma*, for now in italics. I think my second choice would be... Mr. Ultracool? Not sure.
> 
> It feels flatly unlikely that all scum are in the inactives right now, but most of everyone active has seemed kind of towny to me at some point, so idk.
> 
> @Eifie are you proud of me.


myuma? Really? After the checking-people's-online-times thing? I get that it's not necessarily alignment-indicative in itself, but it just comes across as posting whatever she can think of in an attempt to help because she doesn't have anything to add in the way of reads. I also don't think scumchat would have supported her going ahead with it given its questionability in terms of etiquette.

I guess I could get behind Ultracool - clearly keeping up with the reacts, but hasn't said much at all. "lynch inactives" feels more like a compromise than a strategy, though. @Mr. Ultracool - assuming you're still keeping up, do you have any thoughts to share?

Since you asked, my "gut feeling" is going with VM. I hate to buck with the crowd opinion but I just don't really see why town!he would share Tofu's question like that when he could just have said "we live together and she doesn't seem like she's hiding anything" - the extra detail seems kind of like embellishment. I feel like it makes more sense if they're either w/v and he's trying to curry favour with her, or w/w and he's trying to cover for her? (As usual with my "reads" though, take this with a pinch of salt - not really pushing for a VM lynch, happy to jump on whatever people think is the most sensible wagon.)


----------



## qenya

Mr. Ultracool said:


> myuma said:
> 
> 
> 
> Vipera Magnifica and RedneckPheonix have been online, but haven't posted anything. Mr. Ultracool is watching (or more accurately, reacting) from the shadows. Lying low...? Superjolt and Butterfree haven't posted due to real-life things holding them up, so they're free from suspicion for now.
> 
> 
> 
> I'm not lurking; I'm just not sure what to contribute to the discussion. Day 1 is always confusing, because no one knows anything yet
Click to expand...

Oops, sorry, didn't see this before my post above!

Literally anything you can think of is great to share, even if you're not certain about it or think it's probably just complete nonsense! No-one knows anything yet, yeah, but posting your impressions helps because it lets people get a feel for how you're thinking.


----------



## Zori

I haven't read the thread and my model for mafia gamesTM is falling apart
kokorico has decent vibes from the last two posts


----------



## Zori

Mr.Ultracool is at mixed vibes for me


----------



## mewtini

myuma said:


> (I'm currently reading through all the posts I missed while I was asleep and figuring out how I went from "good vibes" to "lynch candidate" )


oh to be clear. i would rather lynch an inactive than you tbh, i threw out your name in response to keldeo's q but i'm not, like. interested in it at all - i just went with it because i didn't think the online times thing was alignment-indicative necessarily and i feel slightly more okay about kokorico i think



myuma said:


> Keldeo comes across as having an agenda, seeing as they're trying to push everyone to form a more solid town group


this is valid and something that i/a few other people scumread him for in tvt lol. i can't tell where your head is at there as far as _which_ agenda you think he has, because i want to say i feel like he's acting town so far?



myuma said:


> Mr. Ultracool has been reacting without giving their opinions on the game... so I guess I'd vote for them. Even if they're not mafia, being voted for might provoke them into responding.


i mean i can vibe with pushing ultracool to respond, it's just :| because he played like this as town in tvt when he was trying to lay low and not claim his (later gamechanging, lol ...) power role so at this stage i feel awkward about actually killing him. would love to see more out of him though obvi



kokorico said:


> the extra detail seems kind of like embellishment.


oh, i thought the extra detail made sense when it felt like he included it to make sure we knew they weren't actually talking about the game illegally. hahahaha.


----------



## mewtini

ok so i know i shouldn't _really_ say anything more about the ministrife from last night but ... 

i wanted to express that tbh i was frustrated when i kept feeling like my actual level of care and my intentions were getting forcefully misrepresented/twisted, and maybe that annoyance made me come off worse? so i'm sorry about that. i think after a certain point i was reacting less to the actual situation and more to being driven by feeling mischaracterized in re: grilling keldeo/looking for "leak-proof" explanations when i genuinely felt like i was just. asking questions in real-time. idk. :(

after sleeping on it i still don't really feel like it was wolf-steered, primarily because of what keldeo said about the ramifications of him and trebek being v/v (and i'd extrapolate that IF there were any wolves in there, it would either be trebek or keldeo? more likely the former?). i also think kyeugh comes off of it looking slightly townier? and trebek stays right at null for me


----------



## mewtini

also bluwiikoon continues feeling town especially for admitting that he didn't really pay attention to my posts during the thing because he liked my tone earlier lol


----------



## Vipera Magnifica

M Plus 7 said:


> Vipera Magnifica said:
> 
> 
> 
> I didn't want to post anything until after I'd read the whole thread, which I now have
> 
> 
> 
> This struck me as notable given the context for what seemingly was happening in thread at the time. I'm not sure why a player would say this and then not follow up with any reads or anything? To anyone who has meta here, does this mean anything to you?
Click to expand...

I was typing a follow-up to that and got interrupted, so my thoughts came in a post about an hour later.



Keldeo said:


> I think if Tofu is mafia, VM is mafia, but not necessarily the other way around - I can see the idea that he probably doesn't need to post that information if he is mafia and she is town, but I think it's still possible that he would, since Tofu would be aware of it.


I don't know if that logic entirely checks out, when I'm mafia I often make a point of TRing town as town, for the dual reason of earning their trust and making them look suspicious if I die and flip mafia. Is that to say I am mafia in this game? No, but just want to make sure your logic is accurate. Also, if we were both mafia, I wouldn't be sticking my neck out so early just to publicly associate with another mafia. Either that or I’d mix it in with a couple other town reads. If anything I’m more cautious about TRing anyone in this game until I’m fairly certain they’re not mafia, especially after how everyone’s early-game reads on kyeugh helped her cruise to victory in tvt mafia.



Tofu said:


> myuma said:
> 
> 
> 
> @Tofu
> Sorry if I made you feel uncomfortable! That wasn't my intention at all
> 
> 
> 
> S'all good(man)
Click to expand...

hardclaim lawyer



kokorico said:


> Since you asked, my "gut feeling" is going with VM. I hate to buck with the crowd opinion but I just don't really see why town!he would share Tofu's question like that when he could just have said "we live together and she doesn't seem like she's hiding anything" - the extra detail seems kind of like embellishment. I feel like it makes more sense if they're either w/v and he's trying to curry favour with her, or w/w and he's trying to cover for her? (As usual with my "reads" though, take this with a pinch of salt - not really pushing for a VM lynch, happy to jump on whatever people think is the most sensible wagon.)


I could have just said “We live together and I don’t think she’s mafia” but wanted to delve a little deeper into my reasoning. I was already pretty sure she was town just from how she’s been acting, but the fact she asked how many mafia there are is what really convinced me. It didn’t seem like an act to me, unless my girlfriend is a much better actor than I give her credit for... also fwiw I don’t think she has any kind of read on me because I’ve been a lot more guarded about saying anything or reacting to anything out of respect for the game rules. As mewtini already kinda touched on I said what I said because I wanted to be honest about any communication that happened between us, because while it is VERY hard to not glean any kind of information out-of-thread just by how a person is acting when you’re living with them, I have been trying to keep the game as fair as possible.


----------



## Vipera Magnifica

Now for updated reads

I’m still cautious about reading anyone too early, but I feel the most okay about mewtini? She's being helpful and acting similar to how she was acting in tvt mafia, so I have a hard time believing she could be mafia.

Keldeo seems more likely town than mafia, but I am still not 100% certain. It doesn't seem like a good move for him to stick his neck out with a play like that if he's mafia, and I can understand the reasoning for doing that if he's town. But then again he's acting exactly as solvey as we'd expect v!Keldeo to act, and I wouldn't ever underestimate w!Keldeo's acting ability. I'm going to need a little bit more information before I really have a solid read here.

I don't have much of a strong feeling about anyone else. Emmy does come across as acting a bit differently from last game, but that could be due to circumstances outside the game and I'd like her to post some more today to get a better idea of what's going through her mind.


----------



## mewtini

Vipera Magnifica said:


> It doesn't seem like a good move for him to stick his neck out with a play like that if he's mafia, and I can understand the reasoning for doing that if he's town.


this is pretty much what makes me townlean him as well, pending more keldeocontent


----------



## kyeugh

i think i would prefer an inactive lynch right now. if you put a gun to my head and told me to vote an active player i might go... mewtini? i’m really not at all interested in doing that
i also don’t really want to explain it because it’s a baby lean that i don’t have any desire to pursue and i think if i start talking about it more than this it’s going to turn into a thing


----------



## kyeugh

i don’t really know whether i like koko’s posting or not. i think i have trouble interpreting how i feel about lines of logic that i find Weird—i honestly generally find it AI but i think there are good arguments for why it might be wolfy or towny so i just end up confused. similarly, i think my instinct is to scumleam rari door consistently misreading the keldeo situation and shading him for it, but in the end i think that actually comes out townier than not?


----------



## kyeugh

kyeugh said:


> door


----------



## kyeugh

i think at some point today i’m going to make a big post detailing where my head is at on everything, because i don’t think it’s clear and i don’t want to start the game off with people misinterpreting my feelings and then snowballing later tbh.


----------



## Bluwiikoon

Keldeo said:


> Bluwiikoon said:
> 
> 
> 
> As for Trebek, no real thoughts, but given that you asked me about them and then proceeded to gently push them, I'd say you (Keldeo) definitely had some suspicions about them and were probably looking for confirmation. Did anything in particular about Trebek's posts seem odd to you?
> 
> 
> 
> @Bluwiikoon good to hear more from you! I made a post about this later on (although I've now changed my mind), did you see that?
> 
> Also, what do you think of my read on rari's paranoia about me being kinda towny? I'm a little bit confused why you've mentally separated rari and mewtini's reactions since I read them as quite similar, but that might just be a me thing.
Click to expand...

Hi hi! I did indeed see your updated thoughts on Trebek (and just double-checked to refresh it in my brain). I do think them admitting your read on them was fair was towny, and overall I think the push you made got them to have a little more activity and helped people get more of the valuable reads. :D Any random push accomplishes _some_ form of discussion imo, and at this stage I think it's worth it (even though it's making people perceive you as a little aggressive this time. But you're my hypocop clear, so...! Ride or die!)

I made some other posts about it, but basically having hung out with mewtini in-thread a lot more, I've had a lot more good feelings from her and her play feels town to me. rari didn't leave much of an impression on me beforehand due to sparse posts, but they seemed to pick up in activity right around when The Grand Trebek Push was happening. After thinking on it some more and hearing other peoples' rari thoughts I am a bit unsure about my assessments and suspicions, but for now rari is just in my  pile until further notice.


----------



## Superjolt

Hai again everyone! :3

Gonna start reading now, 38 pages shouldn't be too bad to get through hopefully

Please bear with me as this will be the first mafia game I've played since October (and the first "discussion heavy" game I've been in since... April last year?! If you can even call it "discussion heavy" anyway, as that one only lasted 12 pages). Feels good to be getting back into the game again after so long!


----------



## mewtini

Superjolt said:


> Gonna start reading now, 38 pages shouldn't be too bad to get through hopefully


hey! we recapped a bit/offered some posts up for m+7 when he got into the game on page 33, that might be useful?


----------



## mewtini

mewtini said:


> page 33


er, page 32, sorry!


----------



## Bluwiikoon

Keldeo said:


> I do want to do like, a wagon building exercise, given that we're about 1.5 days from the deadline... If you _had_ to vote, even if you're not super confident or it's only for now, where would you vote?


If I absolutely _had_ to... I guess someone inactive, or someone I have  feelings about. So far those people would be Seshas (because of me tunnelling/tinhatting too hard after Jokes) or rari_teh (due to reasons Trebek mentioned in #715, and the big increase of their posting activity right as Trebek was getting pushed)

I'm interested in the potential several people have for adding to the game, so I hope even more folks get to be more active and contribute :D I wouldn't wanna lynch any particularly active people/people who contribute a lot at the moment (mewtini, kyeugh, keldeooooo!) due to the depth they add to discussions.


----------



## kyeugh

oh yeah seshas
i kind of wouldn’t oppose a seshas wagon? tbh? this is another case of “doesnt feel as solvey as i expect” which is maybe unfair


----------



## Bluwiikoon

Vipera Magnifica said:


> If anything I’m more cautious about TRing anyone in this game until I’m fairly certain they’re not mafia, especially after how everyone’s early-game reads on kyeugh helped her cruise to victory in tvt mafia.


Just wanna note that I feel that kyeugh played good in tvt and it was more than just vibes. She totally bussed her fellow wolves after all, and people keeping track of vote tallies w/ alignments just saw that she voted to lynch mafia at times and perceived that as towny. >:o Strategic! Devious!

Even if someone feels towny right now, there's many ways to throw a spanner into the works with their actions. We also can't assume that the wolves this time are good strategists (capable of masterminding potential wolf!emmy's actions for instance), since it could be literally anyone!


----------



## JackPK

Reminder: The day phase will end in *24 hours*.

Active votes:
Keldeo votes myuma (#710)



Spoiler: Full vote history



Active votes bolded.

kyeugh votes kyeugh (#162)
kyeugh unvotes (#166)
Keldeo votes Trebek (#509)
Keldeo unvotes (#589)
*Keldeo votes myuma (#710)*



Hope y'all don't mind me not hyperlinking the post numbers; it's a bit more of a hassle than I'm willing to do by hand since I don't have Butterfree's script.


----------



## Herbe

kokorico said:


> I also don't think scumchat would have supported her going ahead with it given its questionability in terms of etiquette.


this is just a random quote I picked out re: this topic (kokorico pls don't think I'm tunneling on you lmao) but even last game, as mafia, i can say that we weren't like. double checking everything that each other would post. sure we would suggest general directions and strategies but for the most part it wasn't like a Council of Scum that we would take our prospective posts to. so we should try not to give the mafia more credit than they deserve lmao


----------



## Herbe

i'm grumbling about the myuma vote. i don't vibe with it.


----------



## Herbe

*i dont vibe with it being the literal only vote and would rather the lynch not go there, is what I mean. i'm not grumbling at keldeo, you're fine bby


----------



## kyeugh

Bluwiikoon said:


> Vipera Magnifica said:
> 
> 
> 
> If anything I’m more cautious about TRing anyone in this game until I’m fairly certain they’re not mafia, especially after how everyone’s early-game reads on kyeugh helped her cruise to victory in tvt mafia.
> 
> 
> 
> Just wanna note that I feel that kyeugh played good in tvt and it was more than just vibes. She totally bussed her fellow wolves after all, and people keeping track of vote tallies w/ alignments just saw that she voted to lynch mafia at times and perceived that as towny. >:o Strategic! Devious!
> 
> Even if someone feels towny right now, there's many ways to throw a spanner into the works with their actions. We also can't assume that the wolves this time are good strategists (capable of masterminding potential wolf!emmy's actions for instance), since it could be literally anyone!
Click to expand...

this is a good post tbh.  i had vaguely good vibes about you before but i think definitely you are a strong townread now



Herbe said:


> *i dont vibe with it being the literal only vote and would rather the lynch not go there, is what I mean. i'm not grumbling at keldeo, you're fine bby


i do not think the lynch will go there tbh.  i will not vote myuma unless more information comes out implicating him which i doubt will happen

let's do this... for science.
*Seshas*


----------



## Butterfree

Hi everyone, I'm home and have just been frantically catching up with the thread in between falling asleep in my incorrect belief that the day was ending today. I clearly should have been proofreading the one-shot contest entries that I should _actually_ be turning in today. Will probably just make this one drop-in post, go off to do that, and then maybe return depending on what time it is by then.

Re: Keldeo and Trebek: I didn't find Keldeo's initial vote there suspicious, or the explanation in #527 (although I did disagree with it; I think feeling self-conscious as town and like you need it to be clear that you're town is pretty natural, especially if you're kind of new to this). I did, however, find his followup posts (#538 and #541) really confusing and had no idea what he was getting at with either of them even squinting and rereading them. I don't know if it's just me being half-asleep or what. Like... "If you're Trebek... [several bullet points assuming that he's mafia] I kind of don't think you admit that?"? What? And then something about a wolf perspective-slipping or TMIing? What was any of that about?

...Actually, looking at that again, maybe that was just supposed to say "If you're mafia" and not "If you're Trebek"? That would make a lot more sense. Did everyone else figure this out already and just not mention it, or did I miss something? God. I was so confused.

Although I don't find the initial vote suspicious I'm not sure I'm suspicious of mewtini/rari for finding it surprising and questioning it, either; we don't really do the pressure voting thing much here and it doesn't strike me as weird that it'd seem weird to someone who doesn't play on MU. Maybe largely because mewtini is the person I'm getting the best vibes off overall one way or another; she just feels very similar to TV Tropes Mafia (...where she was technically third party, but I think we all know she was basically playing as if she were town the entire time). Keldeo wanting to change his playstyle in response to TVT mafia is kind of convenient, but eh, prooobably checks out, unless there's further evidence.

One quote I stuck in my multiquote:



Trebek said:


> kyeugh said:
> 
> 
> 
> idk, i just found it weird that people were so ?? about it. i honestly don’t really care about this that much but at the time it was mostly keldeo on the defense and no one was really sticking up for him so i wanted to say something about it and now i am still talking about it i guess
> 
> 
> 
> wholeheartedly agree with this. i didnt exactly feel in a position to stick up for keldeo as it was happening, bc i thought that could be interpreted as openwolfing, but i support
Click to expand...

I'm confused by this. Why would sticking up for Keldeo when he's accusing you be seen as openwolfing?

Oh, also, flavor-wise, the kill being vanishing into thin air doesn't suggest Mr. Mistoffelees to me? In the movie, Macavity is disappearing cats into thin air throughout; I think it's pretty clearly just that.


----------



## kyeugh

Butterfree said:


> I'm confused by this. Why would sticking up for Keldeo when he's accusing you be seen as openwolfing?


 i assume it's just that the surface level logic of "i think the guy who is accusing me is town" is self-implicating?  honestly now that you mention it i think having that kind of thought is wolfier than not, hmm...


----------



## I liek Squirtles

Popping in to say a quick thought post-Keldeo-Trebek voting thing:

At first, I thought it was weird simply because the post was so curt, but as it unfolded it became clearer to me that either Keldeo and Trebek are both villager or both mafia (the former seems more likely to me in how they interacted).

What I *did* find suspicious, however, was how rari kind of went about everything. First how he quoted everything mewt said in #556. I got a little more suspicious when I reread on mewt's thoughts that rari was her hypoclear.

It feels a little WIFOM-y, like... it would be kinda obvious for the mafia to try to hypoclear their teammate because then they'd also be exposed but. it also feels like a four-dimension chess play and I don't know what to think.


----------



## kyeugh

hmmm... i'm not closed to one of rari/mewt being scum, but i definitely don't think they both are honestly.  it seems like a lot to me that they would, like, tag-team in that way, and it seems especially doubtful given that if they were actually cooperating to push some kind of anti-keldeo agenda there there probably would have been a vote.


----------



## Trebek

kyeugh said:


> Butterfree said:
> 
> 
> 
> I'm confused by this. Why would sticking up for Keldeo when he's accusing you be seen as openwolfing?
> 
> 
> 
> i assume it's just that the surface level logic of "i think the guy who is accusing me is town" is self-implicating?  honestly now that you mention it i think having that kind of thought is wolfier than not, hmm...
Click to expand...

in the heat of the moment, my brain processed the input of 'sticking up for keldeo' and concluded that it would be digging me deeper into the hole i was in. i am 100% vocal about supporting it now that i am able to spend time thinking about it without putting myself in panic mode


----------



## mewtini

will come back and read/respond but


kyeugh said:


> let's do this... for science.
> *Seshas*


i'm glad you did this, it was what i felt best about getting some vibechecks from. *seshas*


----------



## mewtini

I liek Squirtles said:


> I got a little more suspicious when I reread on mewt's thoughts that rari was her hypoclear.


why did this make you suspicious (of rari, you're saying)? not sure i'm following


----------



## IndigoClaudia

Bluwiikoon said:


> @IndigoEmmy Are you doing okay? Your last few posts in here seem a bit like maybe you were upset ;o; Or I could be reading too much into it!!


Nope! I'm doing fine. :D
thanks for asking though! it means a lot.


----------



## mewtini

Butterfree said:


> I'm confused by this. Why would sticking up for Keldeo when he's accusing you be seen as openwolfing?


yeah, so to expand on my nullread - the reason that i view trebek as supremely null is that i think that the following are equally likely: a) that he's town and legitimately does just agree with keldeo, or b) that he's a wolf and wanted to placate keldeo to get out of the interrogation room. i don't really know which i suspect is the case?


Butterfree said:


> Did everyone else figure this out already and just not mention it, or did I miss something? God. I was so confused.


man i'm so glad that someone else was confused by this


Butterfree said:


> ...where she was technically third party, but I think we all know she was basically playing as if she were town the entire time


lmfao


----------



## I liek Squirtles

mewtini said:


> why did this make you suspicious (of rari, you're saying)? not sure i'm following


At first I thought that you two were in cahoots, but that would be pretty obvious and dragging the whole ship down. I'm more in kyeugh's camp now where one of you is mafia (leaning more towards rari right now, tbh).


----------



## kyeugh

to be clear i'm not really in the camp of one of mewtini/rari definitely or even probably being mafia, it's just a world that i'm keeping in mind
what i mean is if rari died and flipped town it would not really affect my view of mewtini and vice versa


----------



## mewtini

I liek Squirtles said:


> At first I thought that you two were in cahoots, but that would be pretty obvious and dragging the whole ship down. I'm more in kyeugh's camp now where one of you is mafia (leaning more towards rari right now, tbh).


ok, so i'm going to put down the hypocop hat for a second.
if we assume v!me, w!rari, where rari is just sheeping me - i guess i just think that rari went too much out on a limb to be a wolf, although i agree with you/skylar that it would have, generally speaking, been a good time for _some_ wolf to come in and try to shade keldeo (if keldeo is villa). and i think that this makes it clear enough that she didn't understand keldeo's original goal:


rari_teh said:


> Keldeo said:
> 
> 
> 
> I have to be pushed into taking stands
> 
> 
> 
> you kinda weren’t when you voted trebek tbh
Click to expand...

then skylar saying "that was the point" and explaining her view triggered this response:


rari_teh said:


> ah wait i think i got it now
> he made a bold move to vary his playstyle and instigate conversation, and that was basically it?


which i feel fine about? what do you think


----------



## IndigoClaudia

IndigoEmmy said:


> Bluwiikoon said:
> 
> 
> 
> @IndigoEmmy Are you doing okay? Your last few posts in here seem a bit like maybe you were upset ;o; Or I could be reading too much into it!!
> 
> 
> 
> Nope! I'm doing fine. :D
> thanks for asking though! it means a lot.
Click to expand...

I'm am tired though.


----------



## Trebek

mewtini said:


> Butterfree said:
> 
> 
> 
> I'm confused by this. Why would sticking up for Keldeo when he's accusing you be seen as openwolfing?
> 
> 
> 
> yeah, so to expand on my nullread - the reason that i view trebek as supremely null is that i think that the following are equally likely: a) that he's town and legitimately does just agree with keldeo, or b) that he's a wolf and wanted to placate keldeo to get out of the interrogation room. i don't really know which i suspect is the case?
Click to expand...

me saying this probably wont amount to much, since im talking about myself, but i feel like the b) scenario would have ended up with me trying to exhibit more suspicion of keldeo after the fact.


----------



## mewtini

Trebek said:


> me saying this probably wont amount to much, since im talking about myself, but i feel like the b) scenario would have ended up with me trying to exhibit more suspicion of keldeo after the fact.


oh i don't actually scumread you, ftr, i'm just kinda Thinking? i don't think w!you _necessarily always_ shades keldeo, i think it would make sense to just try to get away


----------



## Trebek

mewtini said:


> i don't think w!you _necessarily always_ shades keldeo, i think it would make sense to just try to get away


oh yeah, im not trying to imply that was my _only_ line, bc thatd probably wolf flag me even more. just want to get my thought process out into the open so that people have more vibes to work with


----------



## I liek Squirtles

mewtini said:


> rari_teh said:
> 
> 
> 
> ah wait i think i got it now
> he made a bold move to vary his playstyle and instigate conversation, and that was basically it?
> 
> 
> 
> which i feel fine about? what do you think
Click to expand...

It still reads a little backpedally to me, so I'm still somewhat suspicious. Still only is D1 though, so ¯\_(ツ)_/¯


----------



## rari_teh

I liek Squirtles said:


> mewtini said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rari_teh said:
> 
> 
> 
> ah wait i think i got it now
> he made a bold move to vary his playstyle and instigate conversation, and that was basically it?
> 
> 
> 
> which i feel fine about? what do you think
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It still reads a little backpedally to me, so I'm still somewhat suspicious. Still only is D1 though, so ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Click to expand...

I see where you are coming from, really, it’s just that I genuinely didn’t understand Keldeo’s thought process behind that move until kyeugh put it in simple, straightforward words tbh

as to the people who are sussing me and/or mewtini for finding keldeo’s early vote weird, that I still struggle to understand tbh

I also think that it’s highly unlikely that there were no mafia members involved in that tbh, but at the same time when I analyse each actor in a vacuum I kinda think they lean more town than scum? idk what to make out of that


----------



## Vipera Magnifica

rari_teh said:


> as to the people who are sussing me and/or mewtini for finding keldeo’s early vote weird, that I still struggle to understand tbh


Hey remember in TVTropes Mafia when everyone suspected ILS and Ottercopter for how they reacted to a joke I made and neither of them were mafia? Are we really doing that again?

Also wow I almost forgot, I got a "strange message" from JackPK last night that said kokorico is the Mafia Don


----------



## mewtini

i think we should lynch jack tbh.


----------



## Vipera Magnifica

I am the Mysterious Informant, and I have information that *Eifie* is secretly pulling the strings from outside the game


----------



## mewtini

mysterious informant? dude i fcking love that cat


----------



## kyeugh

Vipera Magnifica said:


> Hey remember in TVTropes Mafia when everyone suspected ILS and Ottercopter for how they reacted to a joke I made and neither of them were mafia? Are we really doing that again?


 i’m not sure i see the connection


----------



## mewtini

i think vm is saying that the surprise reactions when he claimed OP god tier vigilante are approx. equal to the surprise reactions on keldeo's vote


----------



## kyeugh

mewtini said:


> i think vm is saying that the surprise reactions when he claimed OP god tier vigilante are approx. equal to the surprise reactions on keldeo's vote


 if that’s the case i don’t think that’s remotely true and i don’t see any value in comparing those two incidents tbh


----------



## mewtini

i agree, though i don't want to speak for vm


----------



## Bluwiikoon

Hi @Vipera Magnifica ! ^^ I haven't heard many thoughts from you so far this game, so do you have any particular leads or strong feelings at the moment? You clearly aren't keen on the rari/mewtini thing, but I'm curious what you think about any other vibes in the game at the moment.


----------



## IndigoClaudia

I'm gonna go out here even if it's not true and i lose the game for us all but i'm getting GOOD VIBES from mewtini.

Now Cop!Emmy might not be great at stuff like this but mewtini has some solid vibes. Let's not lynch her.


----------



## Superjolt

Bluwiikoon said:


> Hi Superjolt!! :D Good luck with the big move! I bet your sister super SUPER appreciates the help at a time like this


Thanks! :D She definitely appreciated it, she's been so overwhelmed with everything (with not being able to go to her college graduation ceremony, and having to pack and move everything from the house she was renting near her college back to our house and then having to re-pack everything once she figured out what she was bringing with her to the apartment) she was glad we were there and now I think she's just relieved that everything is finally done and she can settle into her new place!

And now for Some Thoughts on the game!

So I'm up to about page 16-17, and I don't have too much to say so far since it's been mostly sillyposting and not a whole lot has stuck out to me, but I do have a few things: 

Liiiight townlean for now on Emmy for #114 because I like that she asked this question in the middle of all the sillyposting, I think trying to spark serious discussion when things are mostly Not Serious looks good. I like mewtini based on tone so far, same goes for Blu and I like the excitement from Blu, so townleans there. Also kind of like Herbe who sounds legit excited to have rolled town. And if we're hypoclaiming, then Herbe is defintiely a *lean green townie machine!* Not sure about Seshas, kind of want to keep an eye there going forward maybe?

Quite a lack of voting so far, wish there were some votes being tossed around because it would help with vibes/reads (or at least for me!)

That's all I've got so far, I think.

Things seem to be taking a shift towards serious at the point I'm up to so should be interesting going forward. I'm feeling a little distracted and trying to resist reading more of Paranatural, hopefully I can get caught up tonight (or at least get up to page 35-ish)


----------



## mewtini

Superjolt said:


> I don't have too much to say so far since it's been mostly sillyposting


mm, if it helps, 497 onward is probably the most useful thing to look at? that and/or working backwards from here


----------



## mewtini

Superjolt said:


> she's been so overwhelmed with everything (with not being able to go to her college graduation ceremony, and having to pack and move everything from the house she was renting near her college back to our house and then having to re-pack everything once she figured out what she was bringing with her to the apartment) she was glad we were there and now I think she's just relieved that everything is finally done and she can settle into her new place!


oh yeah, also glad that she's moved in/things are settled!! :^) the coronavirus college experience really is ... something. ;(


----------



## Zori

hi
I haven't looked at this game in probably
whenever I made my last post
catching up now


----------



## rari_teh

I made a tierlist because why not


Spoiler: Roughly-ordered tierlist



*it me*
rari_teh – doing my best

*Town*
Bluwiikoon – the only person who posted a lot and I’ve not once vibed weirdly with

*Leaning town*
kyeugh – if she was mafia she’d probably press me + mewt nonstop after the trebekkening
mewtini – if I’m cop she’s locktown. very good vibes. we tend to have similar reads ig
M+7 – I like his stream-of-consciousness posting. maybe should put him one tier below tbh

*Slightly town*
kokorico – I like his posts. Behaviour matches townphase of tvt.
myuma – The little she posted felt towny imo, would like to see more
Butterfree – I like her longpost, but she’s some notches below M+7 for being more Thought Out™ instead of stream-of-consciousness. Hopefully we’ll get to see more of her in the next Days
IndigoEmmy – Acting kinda different, but that’s not alignment indicative ig
VM – I like his posts, but I’d like to see more thoughts. Much more.
Herbe – Sounds very towny but I’m wary bc he sounded exactly the same when he was wolf
Keldeo – I like how he moves conversation forward and I think he’s genuinely attempting to sort people out, though I figure w!Keldeo wouldn’t play much different. Still vibing more positively than negatively.
Superjolt – I think I like the way he’s presenting his thoughts. Excited to see the rest of it!

*Null* (would like to see more of all of these too)
Seshas
I liek Squirtles
Mr. Ultracool
Trebek

*post moar* (alphabetical order)
RNP
Stryke
Tofu


----------



## Zori

I think I'm legitimately losing my ability to form reads on people


----------



## Trebek

Seshas said:


> I think I'm legitimately losing my ability to form reads on people


i would agree with this if i ever had it :(


----------



## Zori

Herbe said:


> i'm grumbling about the myuma vote. i don't vibe with it.


PoorTM vibes from this post, in addition to them making clear their stance on Keldeo afterwards
In any case I don't think ? they could both be wolves


----------



## Zori

*Mr. Ultracool* probably, without really reading the thread


----------



## mewtini

Seshas said:


> PoorTM vibes from this post, in addition to them making clear their stance on Keldeo afterwards
> In any case I don't think ? they could both be wolves


can you expand on this? sorry


----------



## Zori

mewtini said:


> can you expand on this? sorry


Last time I wolfed, I subconsciously started defending the villagers who were wagons to look better
the appeasing keldeo part afterwards is probably just not-alignment-indicative though
(it got out of hand and I ended up strongarming a CFD on my mafia buddy)


----------



## Vipera Magnifica

Bluwiikoon said:


> Hi @Vipera Magnifica ! ^^ I haven't heard many thoughts from you so far this game, so do you have any particular leads or strong feelings at the moment? You clearly aren't keen on the rari/mewtini thing, but I'm curious what you think about any other vibes in the game at the moment.


I said my piece back like two pages ago and that's all I have to say in terms of leads. I don't think it's impossible or even unlikely that one of rari/mewtini is scum, I just think the basis for suspecting them feels pretty flimsy. I'm also just... not a huge fan of making snap judgments about people on D1 and it was certainly never part of the old TCoD meta. You folks can speculate all you want but I'd rather wait for more mech information instead of making decisions based purely on vibes.

*waves cane* back in my day, we *abstained* uphill, both ways, in the snow on D1


----------



## IndigoClaudia

Oh i'm singing my *Abstain* song! Doo doo doo i will sing it all day long. Doo doo doo it's fuuun! To *AAAAAbstain!*
my voooote 

issssss

*ABSTAIN*

Olé!


----------



## Zori

Why AbstainingTM is not generally good for town

An important factor to balance around when making a game is not Kills on Scum and Kills on Town (which dictate the course of the game)
Instead, it is important to focus on Kills Controlled by Scum and Kills Controlled by Town.
Kills controlled by town can hit town, but kills controlled by scum almost never hit scum
so we want, as town, to have as many chances to hit scum as possible
and we do that by taking control of as many kills as possible


----------



## IndigoClaudia

Seshas said:


> Why AbstainingTM is not generally good for town
> 
> An important factor to balance around when making a game is not Kills on Scum and Kills on Town (which dictate the course of the game)
> Instead, it is important to focus on Kills Controlled by Scum and Kills Controlled by Town.
> Kills controlled by town can hit town, but kills controlled by scum almost never hit scum
> so we want, as town, to have as many chances to hit scum as possible
> and we do that by taking control of as many kills as possible


I'm still singing the *Abstain *song. laaa laaa laaa 
i don't want to murder innocent peopleeeee


----------



## Zori

IndigoEmmy said:


> i don't want to murder innocent peopleeeee


You should probably find a normal town that's not threatened by being overrun with Mafia then


----------



## IndigoClaudia

Seshas said:


> IndigoEmmy said:
> 
> 
> 
> i don't want to murder innocent peopleeeee
> 
> 
> 
> You should probably find a normal town that's not threatened by being overrun with Mafia then
Click to expand...

You have a point.
*Seshas.*


----------



## Trebek

IndigoEmmy said:


> You have a point.
> *Seshas.*


is there a further read behind this, or is this just a gut response to seshas talking about why abstaining is bad?
bc in context it looks like the latter


----------



## Bluwiikoon

Out of curiosity, are vigilante roles fairly standard/common for vanilla mafia games? I'm wondering if by day 2 a vig may decide to target someone based on current spec :o


----------



## mewtini

Bluwiikoon said:


> Out of curiosity, are vigilante roles fairly standard/common for vanilla mafia games? I'm wondering if by day 2 a vig may decide to target someone based on current spec :o


that would be kinda hot tbh
the two games i've been in have had a vig, though in tvtropes it was by divine intervention/not originally that way i think (my 15-person MU game had two people who were each, like, half of a vigilante)


----------



## Zori

Bluwiikoon said:


> Out of curiosity, are vigilante roles fairly standard/common for vanilla mafia games? I'm wondering if by day 2 a vig may decide to target someone based on current spec :o


on ToS 2-Shot Vigilante is staple
In Vanilla, it's fairly common? in ~1/2 of games


----------



## Vipera Magnifica

Bluwiikoon said:


> Out of curiosity, are vigilante roles fairly standard/common for vanilla mafia games? I'm wondering if by day 2 a vig may decide to target someone based on current spec :o


What's the most likely w/v dyad right now? I suppose we could always take a stab at one of those and let the vig take out the other if we're wrong


----------



## Zori

Vipera Magnifica said:


> What's the most likely w/v dyad right now? I suppose we could always take a stab at one of those and let the vig take out the other if we're wrong


For the record, don't do this
W/V reads are usually really shaky, and not strong enough to justify doing this
The only exception I can think of is just PoE


----------



## Bluwiikoon

I feel that mislynches definitely still advance the game, since people can then look back at whomever voted and have more things to analyse ^^ Can definitely still understand where people on the abstain train are coming from though - self preservation vs uhhhh moving things along at a Cost


----------



## Keldeo

Trebek said:


> i may have lost 10 years of my life to this whole debacle


Sorry. Im sorry. Im trying to remove it


----------



## Zori

I understand why people feel like abstaining
but abstaining gives a free kill to the mafia and reduces the amount of shots we have to find the scum


----------



## mewtini

keldeoooo!


----------



## Trebek

Keldeo said:


> Trebek said:
> 
> 
> 
> i may have lost 10 years of my life to this whole debacle
> 
> 
> 
> Sorry. Im sorry. Im trying to remove it
Click to expand...

no dont! i didnt need those 10 years anyways! im sure they were lame


----------



## Keldeo

kokorico said:


> myuma? Really? After the checking-people's-online-times thing? I get that it's not necessarily alignment-indicative in itself, but it just comes across as posting whatever she can think of in an attempt to help because she doesn't have anything to add in the way of reads. I also don't think scumchat would have supported her going ahead with it given its questionability in terms of etiquette.
> 
> I guess I could get behind Ultracool - clearly keeping up with the reacts, but hasn't said much at all. "lynch inactives" feels more like a compromise than a strategy, though. @Mr. Ultracool - assuming you're still keeping up, do you have any thoughts to share?
> 
> Since you asked, my "gut feeling" is going with VM. I hate to buck with the crowd opinion but I just don't really see why town!he would share Tofu's question like that when he could just have said "we live together and she doesn't seem like she's hiding anything" - the extra detail seems kind of like embellishment. I feel like it makes more sense if they're either w/v and he's trying to curry favour with her, or w/w and he's trying to cover for her? (As usual with my "reads" though, take this with a pinch of salt - not really pushing for a VM lynch, happy to jump on whatever people think is the most sensible wagon.)


Eh, I still don't see how the online time read isn't easily faked to make up for not really having content. Their later posts have also been pretty bland and not really impressed me, particularly their kind of non-read on me that they posted a few posts above this. It's mostly gut as they haven't done anything overtly suspicious besides fit the profile of a blendy wolf, so I'd be fine to change my vote later on.

I don't really agree with the VM read in itself, but mmm, there's the offbeatish kokorico mafia read that I remember from TVTropes. I'm feeling pretty good about em.


----------



## Keldeo

Seshas said:


> I haven't read the thread and my model for mafia gamesTM is falling apart
> kokorico has decent vibes from the last two posts


Can you expand on your reasoning for the koko read?


----------



## Vipera Magnifica

I kinda disagree with everything seshas is saying but I will put my vote on *IndigoEmmy*


----------



## Bluwiikoon

How do I  react on mobile


----------



## Keldeo

mewtini said:


> i mean i can vibe with pushing ultracool to respond, it's just :| because he played like this as town in tvt when he was trying to lay low and not claim his (later gamechanging, lol ...) power role so at this stage i feel awkward about actually killing him. would love to see more out of him though obvi


Yeah, I guess on balance Ultracool has been pretty similar to TVTropes... Would like to see more from him if possible.


----------



## Keldeo

Press and hold the like icon, Blu!

mewtini's elaboration about her mindset in the vote situation feels... fairly genuine?

Kinda just rapidfire shooting off stuff here to get caught up, I don't have a ton of time for this game today


----------



## mewtini

Vipera Magnifica said:


> I kinda disagree with everything seshas is saying but I will put my vote on *IndigoEmmy*


just ftr, and you probably know this but i want to reiterate - aiui, what seshas is saying is pretty standard mafia play? what do you disagree with?


----------



## Keldeo

Vipera Magnifica said:


> I don't know if that logic entirely checks out, when I'm mafia I often make a point of TRing town as town, for the dual reason of earning their trust and making them look suspicious if I die and flip mafia. Is that to say I am mafia in this game? No, but just want to make sure your logic is accurate. Also, if we were both mafia, I wouldn't be sticking my neck out so early just to publicly associate with another mafia. Either that or I’d mix it in with a couple other town reads. If anything I’m more cautious about TRing anyone in this game until I’m fairly certain they’re not mafia, especially after how everyone’s early-game reads on kyeugh helped her cruise to victory in tvt mafia.


re: the logic part, maybe I phrased it badly - that is what I'm saying, that if you are mafia, I think it is still possible that you made that read to buddy up with a town Tofu. 

Your caution makes sense, I see what you mean about that. I just don't want to let that caution get in the way of having a semi-productive day 1.


----------



## Zori

Keldeo said:


> Can you expand on your reasoning for the koko read?


I don't rememer but I think it was him overthinking VM/Tofu


----------



## RedneckPhoenix

wow! i never knew voting at random was such a high level tactic!

what the fuck did seshas do to get a wagon


----------



## Keldeo

kyeugh said:


> i don’t really know whether i like koko’s posting or not. i think i have trouble interpreting how i feel about lines of logic that i find Weird—i honestly generally find it AI but i think there are good arguments for why it might be wolfy or towny so i just end up confused. similarly, i think my instinct is to scumleam rari door consistently misreading the keldeo situation and shading him for it, but in the end i think that actually comes out townier than not?


You don't have to answer if you're going to talk about it in your bigpost, but I'd like you to expand on these two reads if you can. I remember that e had some logic that was like, not really weird but sort of orthogonal to what I was thinking - I liked that from em in early TVTropes and I think e's got some of that going on right now. I also think rari shading me probably comes from a genuine place? Weirdly enough from 30,000 feet up, I think if there was a wolf in the conversation it would have been the person who was encouraging more suspicion and okay with my vote, but that's... you. So idk.


----------



## Keldeo

koko uses e/em btw


----------



## RedneckPhoenix

looking thru the thread again i cannot see anything that would make seshas seem suspicious. why


----------



## mewtini

RedneckPhoenix said:


> looking thru the thread again i cannot see anything that would make seshas seem suspicious. why


well:


kyeugh said:


> let's do this... for *science*.


----------



## Keldeo

I'm pretty interested in the genesis of this Seshas wagon as well, because they just like, haven't been here that much since people started doing actual content things, and idk if you can call that "not solvey" rather than "just not here"


----------



## mewtini

i pretty much just wanted to hear more from seshas tbh, that's about it


Keldeo said:


> idk if you can call that "not solvey" rather than "just not here"


i can't tell either for now


----------



## RedneckPhoenix

wowie! no reason? imagine that!

*kyeugh.*


----------



## Keldeo

Herbe said:


> *i dont vibe with it being the literal only vote and would rather the lynch not go there, is what I mean. i'm not grumbling at keldeo, you're fine bby


What's wrong with it being the only vote? Can you expand a bit more?

tbh when I asked people to give their answer to "who would you vote" I was also expecting them to like. Actually vote the people lol


----------



## mewtini

RedneckPhoenix said:


> wowie! no reason? imagine that!
> 
> *kyeugh.*


at risk of sounding like a woman with flipflopping morals, i actually am not against pressure voting, i just didn't realize it was going to happen here. w that in mind, i think i'm fine with skylar starting a sciwagon


----------



## Trebek

RedneckPhoenix said:


> wowie! no reason? imagine that!
> 
> *kyeugh.*


ehhhhhhhh

i mean the way im seeing it is that its similar to keldeo voting me, which i am a fan of


----------



## Keldeo

kyeugh said:


> Bluwiikoon said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Vipera Magnifica said:
> 
> 
> 
> If anything I’m more cautious about TRing anyone in this game until I’m fairly certain they’re not mafia, especially after how everyone’s early-game reads on kyeugh helped her cruise to victory in tvt mafia.
> 
> 
> 
> Just wanna note that I feel that kyeugh played good in tvt and it was more than just vibes. She totally bussed her fellow wolves after all, and people keeping track of vote tallies w/ alignments just saw that she voted to lynch mafia at times and perceived that as towny. >:o Strategic! Devious!
> 
> Even if someone feels towny right now, there's many ways to throw a spanner into the works with their actions. We also can't assume that the wolves this time are good strategists (capable of masterminding potential wolf!emmy's actions for instance), since it could be literally anyone!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> this is a good post tbh.  i had vaguely good vibes about you before but i think definitely you are a strong townread now
> 
> 
> 
> Herbe said:
> 
> 
> 
> *i dont vibe with it being the literal only vote and would rather the lynch not go there, is what I mean. i'm not grumbling at keldeo, you're fine bby
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> i do not think the lynch will go there tbh.  i will not vote myuma unless more information comes out implicating him which i doubt will happen
> 
> let's do this... for science.
> *Seshas*
Click to expand...

Can you refresh me on your thoughts about myuma?

Everyone's reactions to myumaposting is... interesting, in italics.


----------



## Vipera Magnifica

mewtini said:


> Vipera Magnifica said:
> 
> 
> 
> I kinda disagree with everything seshas is saying but I will put my vote on *IndigoEmmy*
> 
> 
> 
> just ftr, and you probably know this but i want to reiterate - aiui, what seshas is saying is pretty standard mafia play? what do you disagree with?
Click to expand...

I disagree that an abstain on D1 is helping the mafia. I don't really know if its standard play or not on MU, but I've been playing on TCoD for like 10 years and recklessly lynching on D1 is a lot more likely to help the mafia's chances.


----------



## Keldeo

n0 *Butterfree* btw!



Butterfree said:


> I did, however, find his followup posts (#538 and #541) really confusing and had no idea what he was getting at with either of them even squinting and rereading them. I don't know if it's just me being half-asleep or what. Like... "If you're Trebek... [several bullet points assuming that he's mafia] I kind of don't think you admit that?"? What? And then something about a wolf perspective-slipping or TMIing? What was any of that about?
> 
> ...Actually, looking at that again, maybe that was just supposed to say "If you're mafia" and not "If you're Trebek"? That would make a lot more sense. Did everyone else figure this out already and just not mention it, or did I miss something? God. I was so confused.


Sorry, it was a little bit over-elaborated. Essentially that first post was saying "if Trebek is mafia, and in this particular mindset that I thought he would be in, I don't think he would do the thing he did." And the second post was comparing what I thought the type of mafia he would be was, and the type of mafia that would respond in the way that he did to my pressure, and not seeing much overlap. Does that make more sense?

Also, that's good to know about the lore of Macavity disappearing.


----------



## mewtini

ah, my impression is that on MU i think d1 lynch happens without much hesitation. they also have a pretty extended random voting/push stage tbf. anyway i think my point is mostly that seshas' line of thought is pretty NAI, esp when we did decide on a d1 lynch when they first played with us tvt


----------



## mewtini

mewtini said:


> us tvt


*us in tvt


----------



## kyeugh

RedneckPhoenix said:


> wow! i never knew voting at random was such a high level tactic!
> 
> what the fuck did seshas do to get a wagon


well now you know

i don’t like pretty much any of vm’s posting except the tofu thing and am getting to the point of not caring about that anymore


----------



## Keldeo

As I understand it, the purpose of abstaining in old TCoDf meta was because the game was mostly played in the night. No one would really post anything meaningful in the day, so it'd be hard to make an informed decision without knowing PR actions, which there weren't many of on day 1. Also, the games would be balanced with respect to allowing multiple abstains at the start, whereas we have no guarantee that this game is. 

If the game is mostly played in the day, there is definitely enough evidence to make a more informed lynch starting on day 1. I do not think lynching someone at this point would be reckless.

I guess another way to explain it is that the lynch is [a kill not controlled entirely by the mafia], and using as many of those as possible increases our chances to hit all of the mafia. Our advantage over the mafia is that inherently, we have more numbers, and so most of the people voting at any time will be town.

But this is entirely a theoretical discussion so I don't want to get too bogged down in it.


----------



## Vipera Magnifica

If I wanted to play a MU game, I’d go on MU


----------



## mewtini

but ... we have a fair bit of day left, and i think we know more than enough to not be randomly lynching?


----------



## Keldeo

Vipera Magnifica said:


> If I wanted to play a MU game, I’d go on MU


Yeah, I feel that... I have Thoughts and stuff about how the meta is shifting here because of the influx of people who are used to playing, for lack of a better word, a more """serious""" and "day focused" game that kind of pushes aside the TCoDf veterans who don't want to spend multiple hours catching up on a game or something.

I don't know. The mafia section revival is still young and I guess it's us who determine its direction. If you want to vote abstain because you think it's the best decision, I'm not gonna stop you.


----------



## Keldeo

It's not like the scene here was very active before everyone came along, though! So I've appreciated the influx of people as a stimulus, and I think any hybridized meta that results might still work out for people.

Anyway, this might entirely just be me projecting stuff that I've been mulling over recently to a semi-unrelated situation. No need to respond.


----------



## Keldeo

(Also that's not to say that people who want to play a day-focused game aren't like ~true TCoDfers~! 

I'm done I promise.)


----------



## kyeugh

there are mechanical arguments to be made against abstaining but mostly i’m just like... why should we? i don’t really understand what it does for everyone aside from drag the game out. if the point of the game is to sort as many people as possible then doing nothing is the worst thing you can do, particularly now when the absolute worst outcome doesn’t meaningfully affect our chances of winning


----------



## kyeugh

Trebek said:


> RedneckPhoenix said:
> 
> 
> 
> wowie! no reason? imagine that!
> 
> *kyeugh.*
> 
> 
> 
> ehhhhhhhh
> 
> i mean the way im seeing it is that its similar to keldeo voting me, which i am a fan of
Click to expand...

 not really unless there’s actually something he’s expecting from me here


----------



## kyeugh

unless you mean my vote on seshas? which seems to be the case now that i’m thinking about it. lol


----------



## Trebek

kyeugh said:


> Trebek said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RedneckPhoenix said:
> 
> 
> 
> wowie! no reason? imagine that!
> 
> *kyeugh.*
> 
> 
> 
> ehhhhhhhh
> 
> i mean the way im seeing it is that its similar to keldeo voting me, which i am a fan of
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> not really unless there’s actually something he’s expecting from me here
Click to expand...

sorry, i meant that your vote on seshas was similar to keldeo's, which led to me being confused about rnp's return vote


----------



## mewtini

i don't want to drag this discussion out longer than necessary, and ofc i won't like, be upset if vm ultimately abstains - i just don't remember this topic coming up during tvt where the voting did start earlier, and vm was town d1 there, correct? if anything there was some culture confusion when i, as a mafia newcomer, had to be told that abstaining wasn't pro-town


----------



## Trebek

lulsniped


----------



## mewtini

mewtini said:


> i don't want to drag this discussion out longer than necessary, and ofc i won't like, be upset if vm ultimately abstains - i just don't remember this topic coming up during tvt where the voting did start earlier, and vm was town d1 there, correct? if anything there was some culture confusion when i, as a mafia newcomer, had to be told that abstaining wasn't pro-town


sorry, last thing. to be 100% fair, vm didn't actually vote d1 either (he left his vote on jack's corpse, hehe). it's just that he didn't voice this then, at a time when voting was way more Serious Business than i think it is right now


----------



## kyeugh

Keldeo said:


> kyeugh said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Bluwiikoon said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Vipera Magnifica said:
> 
> 
> 
> If anything I’m more cautious about TRing anyone in this game until I’m fairly certain they’re not mafia, especially after how everyone’s early-game reads on kyeugh helped her cruise to victory in tvt mafia.
> 
> 
> 
> Just wanna note that I feel that kyeugh played good in tvt and it was more than just vibes. She totally bussed her fellow wolves after all, and people keeping track of vote tallies w/ alignments just saw that she voted to lynch mafia at times and perceived that as towny. >:o Strategic! Devious!
> 
> Even if someone feels towny right now, there's many ways to throw a spanner into the works with their actions. We also can't assume that the wolves this time are good strategists (capable of masterminding potential wolf!emmy's actions for instance), since it could be literally anyone!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> this is a good post tbh.  i had vaguely good vibes about you before but i think definitely you are a strong townread now
> 
> 
> 
> Herbe said:
> 
> 
> 
> *i dont vibe with it being the literal only vote and would rather the lynch not go there, is what I mean. i'm not grumbling at keldeo, you're fine bby
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> i do not think the lynch will go there tbh.  i will not vote myuma unless more information comes out implicating him which i doubt will happen
> 
> let's do this... for science.
> *Seshas*
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Can you refresh me on your thoughts about myuma?
> 
> Everyone's reactions to myumaposting is... interesting, in italics.
Click to expand...

 i just don’t really feel any particular way about them and i think if we’re all just like “yep myuma seems fine” there’s good odds he’s a villager and we don’t get much information from that mislynch i guess? i’d rather have two wagons going on
if you’re just interested in like, feelings ABOUT myuma… idk, i guess i see where you’re coming from but i don’t think myuma seems especially more blend-wolfy than like half the roster at this point. i don’t think the online times thing means a _lot_ but i do think it’s somewhat more likely to occur to town. i didn’t feel comfortable at all drawing attention to that kind of information last game and got kind of :// when other people did but no longer care so much as town


----------



## kyeugh

i think my vote on seshas isnt quite like keldeo’s on you, because keldeo was trying to get you to talk more about a specific feature of your play that pinged him and i’m mostly going on vibes here

btw @rari_teh in re: my position on your tierlist, i think it’s worth noting that i probably wouldn’t have gone gung ho on you/mewt as a wolf. it’s just not worth it d1 i don’t think


----------



## Bluwiikoon

MU? I hardly even know you!

(I don't feel qualified to comment on the MU-gamestyle vs classictcod-gamestyle thing but uhhhh not all of us have even been there and are basically following through with how everyone else is playing rn  )


----------



## Trebek

kyeugh said:


> i think my vote on seshas isnt quite like keldeo’s on you, because keldeo was trying to get you to talk more about a specific feature of your play that pinged him and i’m mostly going on vibes here


fair enough. my 'ehhhhhh' about rnp's response still exists, though


----------



## mewtini

i honestly want to say it's towny for rnp? but as i have said:


mewtini said:


> also i'm gonna be honest and say that due to Forum Revival TV Tropes Mafia Revival trauma i'm just going to be a bit reserved in reading emmy/rnp/herbe :')


----------



## mewtini

(by which i mean: in a vacuum idk how i handle rnp here, and i don't personally agree w/his post. i just don't know what the post means for his alignment)


----------



## kyeugh

mewtini said:


> (by which i mean: in a vacuum idk how i handle rnp here, and i don't personally agree w/his post. i just don't know what the post means for his alignment)


 i don’t think it really comes off as particularly towny, especially since it’s a pretty intense reaction for something that’s imo not really significantly different from how we spent a lot of last game
also i don’t think i fully believe the pushback on perceived suboptimal play given the insistence on doctor blocking last time


----------



## RedneckPhoenix

you don't handle me you just lynch me, see that i'm town, and then i get mad at you


----------



## rari_teh

tbqf I think that’s just RNP being RNP there, but then again I recognize that this sort of thinking can easily lead to letting mafia live pretty much unnoticed

not sure if I like VM’s vote here tbqh



kyeugh said:


> btw @rari_teh in re: my position on your tierlist, i think it’s worth noting that i probably wouldn’t have gone gung ho on you/mewt as a wolf. it’s just not worth it d1 i don’t think


I figured you would’ve chased us because that’s what you did when I reacted to you pressurevoting Seshas in TVT tbh
though it’s good to know that you wouldn’t do that in this case ig


----------



## RedneckPhoenix

i WISH i was mafia. it's been so long since i've been able to Conspiratorialize


----------



## rari_teh

rari_teh said:


> tbqf I think that’s just RNP being RNP there, but then again I recognize that this sort of thinking can easily lead to letting mafia live pretty much unnoticed


Also in this thread I must voice that I feel similar towards ILS, Stryke and Ultracool. I feel like they’d all pretty much look the same if you were town or mafia (I could be very very wrong, though), also they don’t tend to post a lot so it’s even harder to get a grasp on a read


----------



## Bluwiikoon

Not particularly related to anything atm, but Keldeo's hypocop reminded me that as far as I can recall, only one person posted a red hypocop check. Is it better to just leave that be for now and analyse it more Tomorrow? After all, if it is correct or is a very lucky guess, that person may have a target on their head.


----------



## kyeugh

Bluwiikoon said:


> Not particularly related to anything atm, but Keldeo's hypocop reminded me that as far as I can recall, only one person posted a red hypocop check. Is it better to just leave that be for now and analyse it more Tomorrow?


huh i must’ve missed this, who was it


----------



## Bluwiikoon

kyeugh said:


> Bluwiikoon said:
> 
> 
> 
> Not particularly related to anything atm, but Keldeo's hypocop reminded me that as far as I can recall, only one person posted a red hypocop check. Is it better to just leave that be for now and analyse it more Tomorrow?
> 
> 
> 
> huh i must’ve missed this, who was it
Click to expand...

Would have to go back through the thread to find it (on mobile...!?) but I recall it being a red check on indigoemmy.


----------



## Stryke

RedneckPhoenix said:


> wow! i never knew voting at random was such a high level tactic!
> 
> what the fuck did seshas do to get a wagon





RedneckPhoenix said:


> wowie! no reason? imagine that!
> 
> *kyeugh.*


That's 4 times your allotted exclamation mark usage per month. Perish


----------



## mewtini

it was skylar joking about a red check on emmy lol


----------



## kyeugh

oh lmfao


----------



## mewtini

kyeugh said:


> i don’t think it really comes off as particularly towny, especially since it’s a pretty intense reaction for something that’s imo not really significantly different from how we spent a lot of last game
> also i don’t think i fully believe the pushback on perceived suboptimal play given the insistence on doctor blocking last time


cool, i guess i was thinking that rnp was playing more as like, textbook town/disliking votes he doesn't understand, because part of our clash in tvt was that we got frustrated by each other when he was playing less fancily than i wifomed myself into thinking

i'll just defer to you lol. i just don't really 'get' rnp, tbqh


----------



## Bluwiikoon

LOL no worries then! I've got bad memory and joke-parsing issues tbh


----------



## mewtini

RedneckPhoenix said:


> you don't handle me you just lynch me, see that i'm town, and then i get mad at you


im SORRY


----------



## mewtini

mewtini said:


> rnp was playing more as like, textbook town/disliking votes he doesn't understand,


by which i mean that maybe his ACTUAL playstyle as town is this, and that i just messed up on his playstyle last game, sorry idk how to make it clear. i just keep getting confused on this :p


----------



## kyeugh

mewtini said:


> kyeugh said:
> 
> 
> 
> i don’t think it really comes off as particularly towny, especially since it’s a pretty intense reaction for something that’s imo not really significantly different from how we spent a lot of last game
> also i don’t think i fully believe the pushback on perceived suboptimal play given the insistence on doctor blocking last time
> 
> 
> 
> cool, i guess i was thinking that rnp was playing more as like, textbook town/disliking votes he doesn't understand, because part of our clash in tvt was that we got frustrated by each other when he was playing less fancily than i wifomed myself into thinking
> 
> i'll just defer to you lol. i just don't really 'get' rnp, tbqh
Click to expand...

oh i don’t either, don’t defer to me tbh. but. if i had to derive a read from it i don’t think it would be a town one i guess
it’s a bit early to tell but i think it’s kind of unusual for him to care about something like this. conspiracy time, maybe he’s scum with seshas


----------



## kyeugh

RedneckPhoenix said:


> wow! i never knew voting at random was such a high level tactic!
> 
> what the fuck did seshas do to get a wagon





RedneckPhoenix said:


> looking thru the thread again i cannot see anything that would make seshas seem suspicious. why





RedneckPhoenix said:


> wowie! no reason? imagine that!
> 
> *kyeugh.*


----------



## mewtini

i just remember him being so detached/apathetic in tvtropes, so him caring is like :O to me right now
but he also entered the thread later/v differently so i can't tell if it's even relevant
also wouldn't defending a fellow wolf be super weird/obvious in this context anyway?!?!?! idk!


----------



## kyeugh

mewtini said:


> also wouldn't defending a fellow wolf be super weird/obvious in this context anyway?!?!?! idk!


 i don’t think it’s implausibly obvious—seshas is currently the leading wagon—and also i‘m kind of against throwing stuff out just bc it isn’t a particularly contrived conclusion. but this is by no means hard evidence of anything or even really a read so eh


----------



## mewtini

yeah. i guess i just like. don't know what his town vs. wolfgame looks like really, on further thought i agree that the thing wasn't actually towny though. i'm just scared of kneejerk scumreading him again


----------



## kyeugh

some stuff i missed before:


Keldeo said:


> kyeugh said:
> 
> 
> 
> i don’t really know whether i like koko’s posting or not. i think i have trouble interpreting how i feel about lines of logic that i find Weird—i honestly generally find it AI but i think there are good arguments for why it might be wolfy or towny so i just end up confused. similarly, i think my instinct is to scumleam rari door consistently misreading the keldeo situation and shading him for it, but in the end i think that actually comes out townier than not?
> 
> 
> 
> You don't have to answer if you're going to talk about it in your bigpost, but I'd like you to expand on these two reads if you can. I remember that e had some logic that was like, not really weird but sort of orthogonal to what I was thinking - I liked that from em in early TVTropes and I think e's got some of that going on right now. I also think rari shading me probably comes from a genuine place? Weirdly enough from 30,000 feet up, I think if there was a wolf in the conversation it would have been the person who was encouraging more suspicion and okay with my vote, but that's... you. So idk.
Click to expand...

 i just found the logic about myuma/vm a bit odd i guess. in general e seems to be mainly engaging with stuff that seems kind of off the wall to me and i think the vm thing was a bit strange at the time of its posting although i’m coming around  to it
i think rari is fine looking back tbh. slightly more leery of mewtini since she seemed very focused on how the whole thing impacted her optics. but meh


Keldeo said:


> I'm pretty interested in the genesis of this Seshas wagon as well, because they just like, haven't been here that much since people started doing actual content things, and idk if you can call that "not solvey" rather than "just not here"


 i am feeling a bit weaker on this after their posting about abstaining, and their comments about literally not reading the thread haha. but in general i think “not solvey” and “not here” might be connected here? i would have to double check but i had the impression at the time that seshas was somewhat keeping up but just didn’t have much to say, and also they haven’t been drawing conversation out of people in quite the same way as last time. which i think could be a matter of like, not feeling as free to speak as a wolf? i don’t know what to expect from their scum game


----------



## Keldeo

Uhh. Superjolt feels relaxed... RNP feels like RNP and I don't reeeally know how to read him except by [redacted] later on. I like the fact that rari made the MP7/Butterfree reads sort of in reference to each other. 

If you actually have a mafia check (in future) you should hard claim as the cop.

*unvote* I guess? idk where to vote. I'm not feeling rari for reasons I've discussed throughout, and I'm not really feeling the Seshas thing either tbh, I kinda came around on them offering up stuff in a relaxed way.


----------



## Stryke

Keldeo said:


> Stryke's 8-ball has Interesting(TM) reads.


Were you just being cheeky here or did you actually think there's something worth investigating? Bc I can't really tell lol sorry


----------



## Keldeo

idk I'm feeling good about the game state and the various tiers of towncore I've got, I guess what's going on is I don't really have a strong feeling among the people I'm _not_ townreading

@Seshas can you talk more about Herbe? I think the thing he's got going for him is the self-awareness about how he's different from TVTropes, which I like but I guess I shouldn't underestimate his acting ability, hehe...


----------



## Keldeo

Stryke said:


> Keldeo said:
> 
> 
> 
> Stryke's 8-ball has Interesting(TM) reads.
> 
> 
> 
> Were you just being cheeky here or did you actually think there's something worth investigating? Bc I can't really tell lol sorry
Click to expand...

It was a joke lol, hence the TM. I must wait 2 seconds before performing this action


----------



## Keldeo

Though, do you have any legit thoughts?


----------



## Stryke

Definitely not. Maybe I'll develop some later when I can sit down and analyze the running arguments we have at the moment, but this whole day phase has been a whirlwind ever since I joined and there were already 15 pages


----------



## rari_teh

by the way I’d love to hear more of @Herbe tbh
how are your overall Thoughts and Feelings™ as of now?


----------



## kyeugh

keldeo have you posted a reads list


----------



## Zori

Keldeo said:


> @Seshas can you talk more about Herbe? I think the thing he's got going for him is the self-awareness about how he's different from TVTropes, which I like but I guess I shouldn't underestimate his acting ability, hehe...


It's mostly just a
"I probably would write this post as mafia, but I'm not sure I would do it as town"
well I know I wouldn't do it as town because I was town and didn't do it but

so mostly just idk

I don't really feel like I can participate in thread for maybe until the morning maybe idk


----------



## Vipera Magnifica

Keldeo said:


> Vipera Magnifica said:
> 
> 
> 
> If I wanted to play a MU game, I’d go on MU
> 
> 
> 
> Yeah, I feel that... I have Thoughts and stuff about how the meta is shifting here because of the influx of people who are used to playing, for lack of a better word, a more """serious""" and "day focused" game that kind of pushes aside the TCoDf veterans who don't want to spend multiple hours catching up on a game or something.
> 
> I don't know. The mafia section revival is still young and I guess it's us who determine its direction. If you want to vote abstain because you think it's the best decision, I'm not gonna stop you.
Click to expand...

Alright, maybe it's not fair of me to want to resist change when the influx of new people is the only reason we're able to play mafia again on TCoDf in the first place. I've been trying to give this new meta a chance but it's just... not as enjoyable for me, at least not in early game. The days are just too long imo, and the threads gets too clogged with "filler". I felt similarly when playing TVTropes mafia, and it wasn't until the numbers started to thin down and we had a lot of mech information to think about that I actually started enjoying the game. Truth be told I'm not married to the idea of abstaining at all, in fact a lynch would help to speed the game up and get to the fun part faster, for better or worse. I don't want to let my feelings get in the way of what anyone else perceives as optimal play, so I'm just going to *unvote* and hang back for now, and let people do what they think is right. But when the time comes I'm still going to play the way _I_ think is right.

And sorry if any of the posts I made earlier came across as grumpy, I was just a little ticked off by seshas telling me how I should play. It's not really their fault though, it's just more of a cultural/generational disagreement.


----------



## mewtini

i'm going to move wagons i think
*mr ultracool *for now


----------



## Keldeo

kyeugh said:


> keldeo have you posted a reads list


No order within tiers, something like
Town: Keldeo, Butterfree
Okay, would not lynch today: kyeugh, mewtini, Trebek, rari_teh, Blu
Okay... 2!: Seshas, kokorico, Tofu, (gap) VM
?: Herbe, IndigoEmmy, I liek Squirtles, myuma, M Plus 7, Stryke, RNP, Superjolt, Mr. Ultracool

I think I've talked about all of my reasoning and stuff, lmk if there's something I can expand on.


----------



## kyeugh

huh could you explain why butterfree is so high? sorry if i missed you already explaining this


----------



## Keldeo

Butterfree is my n0.

Maaaybe move up kokorico? I think I also need to think more about kyeugh and mewtini but idk I don't really feel like doing that tonight sorry.

I actually kind of want to give Mr. Ultracool another day here now? Maybe?


----------



## mewtini

yeah i just moved to him because it's the other wagon and i don't think sitting on seshas will accomplish much if she isn't around tonight (also i feel less meh about seshas at the moment)

will probably figure out someone else to poke at in a bit though!


----------



## mewtini

actually wait, i thought you felt meh about ultracool before?


----------



## Keldeo

mewtini said:


> actually wait, i thought you felt meh about ultracool before?


Yeah, but then you brought up his troping and I figured him being kinda lurky is just par for the course for him. I'd probably go for him over Seshas if that's the choice here, but I don't love the current wagons overall.


----------



## mewtini

ok, cool. that's about how i feel. i don't think i want seshas down tbh, waiting on what else she says
also i recounted votes and see that technically i lied when i said ultracool was the only other wagon, but it was seshas who started that one a hundredish posts ago, and the other one is rnp's vote on skylar so. Like. i'll just go ponder tbh.

my worry with ultracool is that he kinda lurked throughout tvt, it just happened to be inconsequential after a certain amount of time because he claimed and the swapring confirmed that he was town. idk what i would've done if something like that didn't happen to him there, since his posting wouldn't have really resolved him

on the other hand: it was par for the course, so idk


----------



## kyeugh

there's pretty much no one i don't kind of want to give an extra day to, but at the same time i don't think we should abstain.
keldeo, when you say you're not in love with the current wagons, do you mean that's because they're not myuma, or is there a discrete list of people you'd prefer not to lynch?  sorry if that sounds snarky, i guess i'm just trying to work out where exactly you're at and what you would be okay with—it doesn't seem you're comfortable with lynching just anyone at the bottom of your reads list, since you'd rather not go for mr ultracool.


----------



## Keldeo

kyeugh said:


> there's pretty much no one i don't kind of want to give an extra day to, but at the same time i don't think we should abstain.


Mm, I feel this a lot. I think my nebulous discomfort with voting Mr. Ultracool because "like well he seems the same I guess" is pretty much the same as my nebulous discomfort with voting anyone else who hasn't posted much, so it probably doesn't mean that much lol.

I'm mainly just not really happy with Seshas/X wagons.


----------



## kyeugh

i have at last found a contribution to the catsposting


----------



## mewtini

if we're talking in black-and-white terms of who i would choose to remove from the game rn if i really had to (i.e. not the gray area of pressure votes or w/e), i'd say ultracool, but that's admittedly because it would likely be the lowest-impact move i could make? i agree with what skylar said

at the same time i feel the hesitance on ultracool - i brought it up after all :> - but idk if there's anyone else i'd point to right now, haha, and i don't wanna abstain either.


----------



## Keldeo

Maybe that means that I should vote *Mr. Ultracool* so that the wagons can be him and someone else?!


----------



## mewtini

mewtini said:


> if we're talking in black-and-white terms of who i would choose to remove from the game rn if i really had to (i.e. not the gray area of pressure votes or w/e), i'd say ultracool, but that's admittedly because it would likely be the lowest-impact move i could make? i agree with what skylar said
> 
> at the same time i feel the hesitance on ultracool - i brought it up after all :> - but idk if there's anyone else i'd point to right now, haha, and i don't wanna abstain either.


for the record though, i'm kind of hoping to have a less-null vote idea at some point so that i don't actually have to go with the Lowest-Impact Move


----------



## kyeugh

Keldeo said:


> kyeugh said:
> 
> 
> 
> there's pretty much no one i don't kind of want to give an extra day to, but at the same time i don't think we should abstain.
> 
> 
> 
> Mm, I feel this a lot. I think my nebulous discomfort with voting Mr. Ultracool because "like well he seems the same I guess" is pretty much the same as my nebulous discomfort with voting anyone else who hasn't posted much, so it probably doesn't mean that much lol.
> 
> I'm mainly just not really happy with Seshas/X wagons.
Click to expand...

hmm, okay.  that's fair enough.  i think i don't like the seshas wagon so much anymore, either—i like seshas's posting more now than i did then, and i think it didn't elicit quite the reaction i'd need to stay stapled to this vote.  i wonder what happens if i do this...  

*Stryke*


----------



## Keldeo

I mean, I say "wagons" when we have like, at most one or two votes on anyone right now.

Same on both counts mewtini, tbh. We'll figure it out before EOD, I'm sure.


----------



## rari_teh

I’m vibing with this idea tbh
vibing enough to be relatively comfortable into pressuring at this time of the Day
I want more words from Mr. *Stryke*


----------



## Herbe

hi guys, I've had a really long day ://



Keldeo said:


> Herbe said:
> 
> 
> 
> *i dont vibe with it being the literal only vote and would rather the lynch not go there, is what I mean. i'm not grumbling at keldeo, you're fine bby
> 
> 
> 
> What's wrong with it being the only vote? Can you expand a bit more?
> 
> tbh when I asked people to give their answer to "who would you vote" I was also expecting them to like. Actually vote the people lol
Click to expand...

i think my thought process was that it seemed lazy to just go for myuma. (typing this out, i disagree with myself) that was also kind of an Activity Push for ppl in my mind



rari_teh said:


> by the way I’d love to hear more of @Herbe tbh
> how are your overall Thoughts and Feelings™ as of now?


ughhhhhhh
I'm fond of the *stryke* wagon, or at least more fond of it than an ultracool wagon.
i'm already tired of people not trusting me and i guess I'm just gonna have to live with it and let myself be mechanically sorted eventually but damn i miss that sweet sweet towncred of last game. at least i don't necessarily need Vibe Towncred when I'm, y'know, actually town. 
i get VM's points abt the meta and honestly I relate slightly just because i'm already tired, i love nightplay. remember capitalist democracy mafia? i ended up making this whole post like d4 about my totally logical reasoning that deduced the mafia based on mine and other's night actions (and i was like 13 so i felt PROUD of that shit) and we got into like, a bidding war, and it was awesome. loved that game. idk why i went on this tangent. I guess I just meant that I feel more in my element when, a) I'm mafia so I don't have to put effort into reads and deductions,,,, or b) there's a mech-focused logic train to follow. god i love that shit. idk if me relating to VM's stuff is Cats-relevant but yeah.

I am so tired and I took 2 benadryl earlier today and still haven't gotten a proper nap.


----------



## Herbe

i want to vocally disagree with people more in this game. i think that discourse breeds insight, so i want to change my playstyle to fit that.


----------



## Herbe

my longpost is barely coherent. i apologize


----------



## mewtini

yeah i like the stryke wagon more than the ultracool wagon too, i just want to keep them competing lol. that's why i'm staying on for now



Herbe said:


> i'm already tired of people not trusting me and i guess I'm just gonna have to live with it


omg ;;
i mean i don't think you're actively being distrusted, but yeah, i'm being vigilant for sure lmao
i just wanna hear more player-reads from you, tbh :T


----------



## Herbe

fair mewt

i'm gonna be like, lazy and copy paste the player list and add notes to each person


----------



## Trebek

Herbe said:


> I guess I just meant that I feel more in my element when ... b) there's a mech-focused logic train to follow


this is 100% where im vibing at rn tbh. im just out here like dear god let me stay alive until i can form logical arguments


----------



## rari_teh

Herbe said:


> my longpost is barely coherent. i apologize


it isn’t, really
for me it did come out as legit, even though I can’t help not being wary :c
no need to apologize <3


----------



## Herbe

Spoiler: player list of herbe's reads rn



Butterfree - no thoughts head empty
Mawile - i miss my Pal
Keldeo - their presence is Amazing but not AI in my opinion
Herbe - littleman
kyeugh - i think she's town
mewtini - n0 hypocop, if i wasn't a hypocop i'd still put her in towncore
Seshas - not sure yet. not convinced she's town.
IndigoEmmy - could possibly be scum but that's not based on any mental evidence. 
kokorico - i know i hypothetically voted for you, i'm neutral on you though. i'd love to see more
I liek Squirtles - i think town for some reason but i forget the reason. but it was probably an ok reason.
Trebek - probably cool but not convinced he's town. i liked the keldeo/trebek interaction.
rari_teh - cool dude. probably town imo.
myuma - i haven't seen any really wolfy behavior imo but not sold on anything abt myuma
M Plus 7 - i distrust for some reason. idk why.
Tofu - i trust vm's reasoning. town but not towncore necessarily
Bluwiikoon - cool Pal. i really think this is a townie lmao
Stryke - hmmmmmmm. i really want to see the flip here.
Vipera Magnifica - seems as disgruntled a townie as i am (apologies if you're not disgruntled lmao just thinking out loud)
RedneckPhoenix - is RNPing. i think he's town :/
Superjolt - no thoughts here either
Mr. Ultracool - he made a VERY easy town meta for himself last game. i don't want to see him rely on that to carry him through reads in this game.


----------



## Herbe

this is a game of 21, right? would 5-6 mafia members (whether ingroup or outgroup) be a fair estimation in this game?


----------



## mewtini

i think it's been a little bit since my last readlist? i get distracted by intratier ordering a lot, so ... i'm going to make a less granularly-ordered one this time

i still have to reread after this for my hypothetical cool hot new wagon, but i'll go off of gut for this list and let it roll for now


Spoiler: mamma mia, here we go again



*the reaction score queen: *mewtini 

*cool:* 
_ordered-ish_
rari (hypo)
skylar
keldeo
blu
bfree

*sure:* 
_100% unordered_
herbe
seshas
m+7
emmy
koko

*don't want to commit to a read:*
_p much unordered?_
myuma
ils
rnp
trebek
stryke
tofu
vm
superjolt
ultracool


----------



## Herbe

mewt, tell me more about your m+7 read?


----------



## Stryke

"golly, only one page? Surely there can't be that much new developme-"


----------



## Stryke

Anyway, it's too late at night for me to go digging through the thread and formulate some opinions so don't expect much out of me right now. But from what I can tell, you guys don't really have any good grasp on who scum might be either, since there've been like 4 different wagons now and it hasn't really gotten us any closer to unearthing any mafioso. I doubt that anything I have to say will change that fact, so if you need a sacrifice, then c'est la vie, I suppose. That's not to say I'm resigned to my fate, to be clear; I'll try and post thoughts and defend myself tomorrow. This is just, like, stream of consciousness I guess


----------



## mewtini

Herbe said:


> mewt, tell me more about your m+7 read?


honestly it reminded me of some townies in the not-tvt game i played where commentary-style talk was more common/i wanna say that it felt stream-of-consciousness, but it doesn't exactly fall apart if i read it from the pov of someone who already knows alignments, so it's on the weaker end. also what he said about vm made sense for someone new to vm's/the tcodf meta i think:


M Plus 7 said:


> Vipera Magnifica said:
> 
> 
> 
> I didn't want to post anything until after I'd read the whole thread, which I now have
> 
> 
> 
> This struck me as notable given the context for what seemingly was happening in thread at the time. I'm not sure why a player would say this and then not follow up with any reads or anything? To anyone who has meta here, does this mean anything to you?
Click to expand...

i really want to hear more from him though and am kinda banking on waiting for keldeo to talk about him more lol. i just gut-feel a bit differently about him than null/noncommittal


----------



## mewtini

mewtini said:


> but it doesn't exactly fall apart if i read it from the pov of someone who already knows alignments


this is mostly because he didn't 100% substantiate what he said tho


----------



## Tangrowth

Hey, all! I'm going to be around in the morning prior to EoD for a few hours, timing things.



Keldeo said:


> Hmm, I don't really see that from rari the same way you do, Trebek. It feels like a natural reaction given that they misinterpreted my post that way.
> 
> @M Plus 7 when you get back, what did you like about my posting that you read earlier?
> 
> Have a wonderful night all o/


From what I read it reminded me of the DLP game with respect to genuine solving, thoughtful consideration, etc. I'd like to think that there are certain levels to your posting that you'd have trouble replicating if you're not town, and especially throughout the reaction test I had a hard time seeing that as anything but organic. Of course, I'll have to dig deeper, but you looked good enough that I wouldn't want to get rid of you this day phase for sure.


----------



## Trebek

mewtini said:


> if i read it from the pov of someone who already knows alignments


not sure i exactly get what you mean by this?


----------



## Tangrowth

Reading back the last handful or so of pages... wow, culture shock indeed, I uhhh would strongly advise against abstaining ever on Day 1, but that's certainly my opinion and I wouldn't want to tell anyone else how to play either. This game is fun with differing philosophies and perspectives. I can see why VM is going to be a difficult read for me in general just due to the incredibly diametrically opposed mafia game strategy, haha.


----------



## Tangrowth

Hey Trebek, I likely won't stay for long because of sleepy reasons, but do you want to chat briefly? What are your reads? Is there anything you think I should prioritize heavily first thing in the morning to help make a vote determination?


----------



## mewtini

Trebek said:


> mewtini said:
> 
> 
> 
> if i read it from the pov of someone who already knows alignments
> 
> 
> 
> not sure i exactly get what you mean by this?
Click to expand...

as in it's not impossible to read it from a wolf/TMI perspective. which is why i don't think i townread m+7 but i do light townlean him for now for the stream-of-consciousness


----------



## Tangrowth

Hey mewtini! Guess my ears were burning. Same question to you that I just asked Trebek by the way, although... I could simply refer to your updated reads list and use that as a launching pad. I may do that.


----------



## mewtini

M Plus 7 said:


> Hey mewtini! Guess my ears were burning. Same question to you that I just asked Trebek by the way, although... I could simply refer to your updated reads list and use that as a launching pad. I may do that.


yeah i'd probably just end up linking you there!
i'm around in realtime though :)


----------



## Trebek

M Plus 7 said:


> Hey Trebek, I likely won't stay for long because of sleepy reasons, but do you want to chat briefly? What are your reads? Is there anything you think I should prioritize heavily first thing in the morning to help make a vote determination?


havent devoted nearly enough brainpower to recent posts, but have still been mulling over the parties involved in keldeos vote on me from before.

I still have a sinking suspicion that at least one of the people involved was mafia just bc if not it feels like the whole thing would have been finished much faster. However, im not as predisposed to use this to be suspicious of rari/mewt as i was at about this time yesterday, mewt especially since i still have very good vibes about her concerning copcover. i am currently rereading recent posts for like the 7th time, just bc i am horrible at information retention, but i think im most likely going to put my reads on the back burner for now and see where the other trains go (as i mentioned earlier, i am hesitant to made reads that go too deep until more mech things happen, just bc that is definitely where my strength lies, as opposed to the very social aspect of D1)


----------



## mewtini

also here's this quickcount for a sense of the wagons, active votes bolded (for m+7 but also for everyone. pls lmk if it's wrong)


Spoiler: votes



keldeo/trebek, 508
keldeo/uvote, 589
keldeo/myuma 710
skylar/seshas 760
me/seshas 766
*seshas/ultracool 797*
vm/abstain 800
emmy/abstain 801
*emmy/seshas 805*
vm/emmy 819
rnp/skylar 833
keldeo/uvote 883
vm/uvote 892
*me/ultracool 893
keldeo/ultracool 905
skylar/stryke 907
rari/stryke 908*


----------



## Trebek

also, probably bears restating just so that it ends up on thread and not stuck in my brain, but the whole debacle makes me TR keldeo pretty strongly

omg what a power move with the votecount. im mcloving it


----------



## Tangrowth

Aaaaand I'm falling asleep at my desk, sorry folks. I promise I'll devote a solid chunk of time leading up to EoD though. I'll make a note of these last couple of posts specifically too. I appreciate it!


----------



## Trebek

M Plus 7 said:


> Aaaaand I'm falling asleep at my desk, sorry folks. I promise I'll devote a solid chunk of time leading up to EoD though. I'll make a note of these last couple of posts specifically too. I appreciate it!


sleep is important!


----------



## rari_teh

mewtini said:


> also here's this quickcount for a sense of the wagons, active votes bolded (for m+7 but also for everyone. pls lmk if it's wrong)
> 
> 
> Spoiler: votes
> 
> 
> 
> keldeo/trebek, 508
> keldeo/uvote, 589
> keldeo/myuma 710
> skylar/seshas 760
> me/seshas 766
> *seshas/ultracool 797*
> vm/abstain 800
> emmy/abstain 801
> *emmy/seshas 805*
> vm/emmy 819
> rnp/skylar 833
> keldeo/uvote 883
> vm/uvote 892
> *me/ultracool 893
> keldeo/ultracool 905
> skylar/stryke 907
> rari/stryke 908*


Herbe voted Stryke 910


----------



## Superjolt

Ok so I didn't get quite as far as I hoped, I'm still pretty exhausted from traveling over the weekend (16 hour drive both down and back!) I got up to somewhere around Keldeo voting Trebek but my brain really started fizzling out after this

Here's some more thoughts (just not totally organized):



Spoiler



Up to page 18 and I see that Keldeo kind of has the same thoughts/reads that I had (esp. on mewtini and Blu, and later others have similar thoughts as well so I'm glad I'm not the only one there. I like mewtini more as I go as she seems to get more solvey (also thanks to mewtini for pointing out pages/posts to me!)

Seshas is someone I really want to reread/ISO

I feel like I should have some opinion on kyeugh at this point but I kind of don't so she's maybe worth a reread too? I do see more posts from her coming up after Keldeo's vote so maybe that will help out a bit

Also want to reread rari posts

Keldeo seems okay for now. I do like that he voted to get people talking (and for the record I do agree with Keldeo that it's never too early to vote!). I'm good with him being town for now.

ILS seemed to get town reads for flavor spec for some reason, and then even pointed out himself that it's not something that should warrant a town read but he doesn't really do anything else? Like, I feel like that should have been paired with something else like "you're right that me flavor spec'ing doesn't mean anything, now let me actually Do Things!" but he really doesn't do anything else, and the next time he posts is in reaction to Keldeo's vote on Trebek I think? I'm pretty tired now so idk if this makes sense. Part of me wonders if this may not be a bad place to vote?

I feel like I've got a handful of town, and then a _ton_ of nulls but like not really any scum reads at this point so I feel like I'm missing something



I think I need more time to read/look things over. I'll only be around for about 4 hours tomorrow probably before EOD and idk if I'll be fully caught up by then, I might have to catch up during Night instead (which might be better actually, so glad that nights will be 48 hours!) I think by Day 2 I'll have a better grasp of things.


----------



## mewtini

rari_teh said:


> Herbe voted Stryke 910


ty!


----------



## JackPK

mewtini said:


> also here's this quickcount for a sense of the wagons, active votes bolded (for m+7 but also for everyone. pls lmk if it's wrong)
> 
> 
> Spoiler: votes
> 
> 
> 
> keldeo/trebek, 508
> keldeo/uvote, 589
> keldeo/myuma 710
> skylar/seshas 760
> me/seshas 766
> *seshas/ultracool 797*
> vm/abstain 800
> emmy/abstain 801
> *emmy/seshas 805*
> vm/emmy 819
> rnp/skylar 833
> keldeo/uvote 883
> vm/uvote 892
> *me/ultracool 893
> keldeo/ultracool 905
> skylar/stryke 907
> rari/stryke 908*


I notice you're missing a couple of votes I have recorded, but (blush) I had also missed a couple you recorded. Tomorrow before EOD I will do a double-check through the whole thread to make sure I haven't missed anything. Here's what I believe is accurate pending that double-check:

*Active votes*
Seshas votes Mr. Ultracool (#797)
IndigoEmmy votes Seshas (#805)
RedneckPhoenix votes kyeugh (#833)
mewtini votes Mr. Ultracool (#893)
Keldeo votes Mr. Ultracool (#905)
kyeugh votes Stryke (#907)
rari_teh votes Stryke (#909)
Herbe votes Stryke (#910)



Spoiler: Full vote history



Active votes bolded.

kyeugh votes kyeugh (#162)
kyeugh unvotes (#166)
Keldeo votes Trebek (#509)
Keldeo unvotes (#589)
Keldeo votes myuma (#710)
kyeugh votes Seshas (#760)
mewtini votes Seshas (#766)
*Seshas votes Mr. Ultracool (#797)*
Vipera Magnifica votes abstain (#800)
IndigoEmmy votes abstain (#801)
IndigoEmmy votes abstain (#803)
*IndigoEmmy votes Seshas (#805)*
Vipera Magnifica votes IndigoEmmy (#819)
*RedneckPhoenix votes kyeugh (#833)*
Keldeo unvotes (#883)
Vipera Magnifica unvotes (#892)
*mewtini votes Mr. Ultracool (#893)
Keldeo votes Mr. Ultracool (#905)
kyeugh votes Stryke (#907)
rari_teh votes Stryke (#909)
Herbe votes Stryke (#910)*


----------



## Keldeo

Not present rn, but one strategy I've seen to avoid missing votes with manual vote counting is that after each day ends, the flip isn't posted immediately, and there's an extra 10-15 minutes where people can PM the mod if there are any vote changes they missed. I'm not sure how frequently an error actually changes the result, so maybe the delayed gratification of not knowing the flip would be too much hehe.


----------



## RedneckPhoenix

kyeugh you fucker only i get to bully stryke


----------



## mewtini

Superjolt said:


> ILS seemed to get town reads for flavor spec for some reason, and then even pointed out himself that it's not something that should warrant a town read but he doesn't really do anything else? Like, I feel like that should have been paired with something else like "you're right that me flavor spec'ing doesn't mean anything, now let me actually Do Things!" but he really doesn't do anything else, and the next time he posts is in reaction to Keldeo's vote on Trebek I think? I'm pretty tired now so idk if this makes sense. Part of me wonders if this may not be a bad place to vote?


yep, i'd be ok with an ils wagon too tbh and i don't think flavorspec is ultratowny. on the other hand i feel like i owe it to him not to tunnel him since i screwed him over d1 last game. haha ... waiting to see if he comes back and vibes


----------



## mewtini

mewtini said:


> last game.


*in the last game we played, sorry


----------



## Butterfree

Can someone remind me why we’re suspicious of Stryke?

I guess I could kind of go for ILS given I’ve been side-eyeing a bit how he, knowing the Cats lore, tried to get everyone to think the death flavor suggested Mr. Mistoffelees instead of Macavity. But I don’t really understand why he would do such a thing as mafia, either; it’s not like there aren’t plenty of others who’ve seen the movie and could correct that?

I may not be properly back until ~half an hour before EoD, because work and after that I need to get groceries. Will try to keep up with the thread during breaks, though.


----------



## mewtini

ok i got stuck in a zoom bday party/really need to go sleep soon because it's 3:15am but i am going to just throw my thoughts down for now, because idk yet how active i'll be until nearish EoD, and then scuttle off for the night before i start deliriousposting again. secondary goal: gonna try to stop using the word "like," question marks, and "i think." let's see how far i get :|


mewtini said:


> i don't think flavorspec is ultratowny


just to clarify. i don't think it's actively _un_towny obviously, just that it didn't really make me strongly townlean him/i've left him in null p much all game ... uh ... i'm writing this part first, so maybe i'll have thought about it more by the time i finish this post


Spoiler: me talking about ILS, since he was lightly proposed as a wagon



i remember him being pretty reactive in tvtropes as town (those who played will know that i'm referring to the reaction to VM's joke) but i don't know if he posted enough/i know him well enough to say much else about his style beyond this. the main activity he's had so far in this game is the exchange from 763 to 777 (+ trebek vote surprise/loretalk, which i will call NAI). i'd really love some thoughts on him


I liek Squirtles said:


> mewtini said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rari_teh said:
> 
> 
> 
> ah wait i think i got it now
> he made a bold move to vary his playstyle and instigate conversation, and that was basically it?
> 
> 
> 
> which i feel fine about? what do you think
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It still reads a little backpedally to me, so I'm still somewhat suspicious. Still only is D1 though, so ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Click to expand...

this is so far his only read, i think. in a vacuum i feel slightly unsure about this (like, "he only appeared to shade?"), but i also wanted to bring it up because his play has been roughly the kind of thing that wrongly pinged me in tvt, but i am wondering if anyone feels anything other than null or townleany about him





Spoiler: me talking about skylar






kyeugh said:


> since she seemed very focused on how the whole thing impacted her optics. but meh


skimming over d1 tvt w!skylar makes me think that she wouldn't make this type of read (one that's small but makes sense) as a wolf? rari was overall more aggressive than me during all that than i was, so i think it makes sense for skylar to read me like that ...
also her 901 ("there's pretty much no one i don't kind of want to give an extra day to") didn't feel as agendaed as she did in tvt iirc. and 746 feels like a post that she would've just phrased as "idk why, i just feel bad" in the last game.
overall skylar isn't really throwing, like. shade that goes beyond normal pushing whereas she was pretty heavy-handed in sussing seshas/rari in earlygame tvt in a way that she's really not now (she also didn't previously go back and bother revising her reads during d1/d2 in the way that she has here, i think).

i don't really feel like reading more tvtropes tonight but i feel alright here





Spoiler: other thoughts



- i think that blu sounds really pure throughout all of this, for his attitudes toward cop cover, his general thought process (see 755), and how unguarded/relaxed he sounds
- still swinging between moderately strongly TRing keldeo and being paranoid because i don't think i'd pick up on it if he were scum. but: in a vacuum, i read him as town. @Keldeo (sorry for ping, just think that this could get buried) can you talk more about why trebek is a no-lynch for you today?
- ignoring the vm thing for now because idk how significant it is or isn't, i feel like it can't be 10000% NAI but i also think culture clash is a thing that happens ... ? i agreed with his actual reads in 743 though i think i'm pretty much ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ about being able to read him overall right now
- also i gutread herbe's like, meta-awareness as sincere (also he's poked people a bit more than he did in tvt, idk if that really makes a huge positive impact but still) i really am just going to hold off on reading him though, because i feel sort of head empty about the content he's produced so far. his quicktierlist in 917 is fine, but i don't 100% grasp his specific interest in stryke's flip when afaik stryke is pretty much getting voted because he's a nullread
- i ... really want butterfree to post more, though meatspace is meatspace. i gutread 761 well (which is why she was in my higher tier just now) but i couldn't really do a great job of explaining why, and i think if i made a more detailed list now i'd drop her down a tier. haven't played with her before and am rather intimidated by her and keldeo tbqh


gonna mull a bit over wagons briefly if i don't pass out first, it is now 4:20 (haha) 4:35 4:40 in the morning


----------



## mewtini

mewtini said:


> which i will call NAI


well, for now anyway, i think the surprise is a bit more NAI than the loretalk but it's a pretty small disparity


----------



## Keldeo

mewtini, I liked Trebek's reaction to my vote in the ways that I talked about directly after it, and the fact that he continued to post thoughts and stuff instead of retreating to "chill in the background" mode after an active person called him town.


----------



## Keldeo

I have only read this page since I left, and don't have time to do more right now :/ Will try to be back before the end of day, but not sure if I can make it.

Thanks for skylar thoughts, mewtini. I was beginning to feel kind of paranoid about her but I'm gonna table that feeling for now. Agreed that hearing more from Butterfree would be cool if she can swing it.

The depth and breadth of thought in mewtini's miscellanous reads feels pretty good to me.



Butterfree said:


> Can someone remind me why we’re suspicious of Stryke?
> 
> I guess I could kind of go for ILS given I’ve been side-eyeing a bit how he, knowing the Cats lore, tried to get everyone to think the death flavor suggested Mr. Mistoffelees instead of Macavity. But I don’t really understand why he would do such a thing as mafia, either; it’s not like there aren’t plenty of others who’ve seen the movie and could correct that?
> 
> I may not be properly back until ~half an hour before EoD, because work and after that I need to get groceries. Will try to keep up with the thread during breaks, though.


I think the Stryke thing is mainly that he has been around in the thread, but hasn't really posted much of anything. It's kind of the same with Mr. Ultracool actually, now that I'm thinking about it.

I'm not really sure how to read into what you bring up with ILS. I guess if he is mafia, that means the Mr. Mistoffelees flavor is probably town? I don't have a strong read on anything that he's posted either way. I think the kinda dogged shade on rari, who I think is town, that mewtini quoted is maybe a little scummy, but that's not a strong read at all.


----------



## mewtini

mewtini said:


> mewtini said:
> 
> 
> 
> which i will call NAI
> 
> 
> 
> well, for now anyway, i think the surprise is a bit more NAI than the loretalk but it's a pretty small disparity
Click to expand...

ok given the volume/nestedness of my post, i should have clarified that this was about the first sentence in the ILS spoiler


mewtini said:


> gonna mull a bit over wagons briefly if i don't pass out first


aight this is going to be more unedited than my above post but i wanna post it before going to bed, hah. sorrrrry. crossing a bit into deliriousposting now

right now there are votes on ultracool, stryke, and kyeugh (don't know if the last one matters or if it was a joke tbh; won't be talking about her since i gave thoughts above)

i was on ultracool because i'm hoping for some content from him, but i voiced my concerns about him (particularly his resolvability) in 900. tvt play aside (almost tempted to just ignore it at this point), i don't think this is that great of a wagon since it doesn't get us like ... any insight at this point, but:
i also don't think the stryke one is great either? just slightly better because stryke is more likely to talk than ultracool is
i'm p sure neither will go to EoD unless something changes
trebek most likely resolves himself/talks more later
hesitant about ILS but it's like 45% tvtropes guilt, very very slightly >_> about his efforts to make himself a contact point for cats lore, i think i prefer this to ultracool/stryke because people have talked about ILS. but this is also literally the exact case i made for him in tvt ... ... ...
i think i reflexively go ILS > stryke > ultracool out of this but then i doubt my ILS read
hoping to hear more from seshas but reiterating that the last few posts i saw from her made me less willing to sciencewagon, they felt like a return to solviness. also she wasn't that active (or as active, iirc?) during earlygame tvt and i could easily believe it's due to her having difficulty to read people preflips
this doesn't belong here but i'm just going through my nulls. other people listed in my null pile who i haven't talked about here are rnp (doesn't make more sense than others), tofu (nearly zeroposter), myuma (idrk, honestly, giving benefit of the doubt because new), kokorico (was in my "maybe" tier but i realize as i compile this that i can't get a read), and superjolt (feeling fine about his preliminary posts)
5:20, zzz. tempted to unvote but maybe i should go somewhere? um ... voting with my gut says *VM*, for now. would like to hear about his emmy vote
going to sleep and revisiting in the morning


----------



## mewtini

mewtini said:


> tvt play aside (almost tempted to just ignore it at this point), i don't think this is that great of a wagon since it doesn't get us like ... any insight at this point


also i think this is going to roll away into a lynch if we let it, scum isn't going to pop out for him and i think we have other thoughts circulating?


----------



## mewtini

sorry for saying i'd ignore vm and then turning around and voting for him lol :|



Keldeo said:


> I'm not really sure how to read into what you bring up with ILS. I guess if he is mafia, that means the Mr. Mistoffelees flavor is probably town?


i agreed with bfree on the flavor, but i've been feeling this whole time like our character names shouldn't like. matter that much?


----------



## Keldeo

Mm I feel you on not really wanting to lynch someone who's been inactive but also not really knowing where else to put the vote, haha...



mewtini said:


> i've been feeling this whole time like our character names shouldn't like. matter that much?


Nah yeah, that's cromulent to me.


----------



## mewtini

mewtini said:


> but i've been feeling this whole time like our character names shouldn't like. matter that much?


wait, this sounded rude. i was agreeing with you kel.


----------



## Bluwiikoon

Just woke up, so here's some sleepy thoughts!

I really like Superjolt and M+7's solvy-ness at the moment, they both read as trying real hard to catch up and formulate thoughts on things. M+7's tone in particular feels good to me ^^

I continue to read mewtini as very towny due to all her participation and analysis, and the good vibes tm. Solvy solvy

Keldeo is really good at inciting discussion and I think I'd feel good about him even without my hypoclearing him.

Hope everybody gets some good rest! Gotta look after yourselves to be able to brain good :D


----------



## qenya

Still reading the thread (seriously, I skipped one evening because I was tired and y'all have made nearly 250 posts!?!?) but I wanted to quickly comment on the "MU vs old TCoD meta" thing.

I come from a meta on the complete opposite end of the spectrum from MU (for example, any sort of discussion on D1, other than greetings and voting, is considered a scumtell), so I totally vibe with VM's frustration in that this sort of hyper-intense, psychological day-play is completely alien to me. That's not to say that I think it's _wrong_ - it's just a difference in culture/meta, and I'm sure I'll get used to it if it continues as the dominant playstyle! But it's not something that comes easily or naturally, and I feel the same sort of reticence that VM mentioned - I just don't find it nearly as engaging or enjoyable as the mechanical stuff that starts happening later on.

Case in point:


kyeugh said:


> in general e seems to be mainly engaging with stuff that seems kind of off the wall to me


To be blunt, this is because I have _no fucking clue what I'm doing_. This is exactly the second mafia game I've ever played where I've had to try to divine people's alignments from their grammar or whatever, and I'm just not any good at it yet. As far as I'm concerned, for now my utility to town in the first few day phases - PRs notwithstanding - is pretty much exclusively confined to my ability to _seem towny_, allowing better players to correctly sort me with minimal effort. (I don't seem to be doing as well at that in this game as I was in TVT, which is ironic given I was not in fact town-aligned for most of that.)

All of which is to say: Please be gentle with those of us who don't seem to be reading people effectively. And abstaining is not necessarily a disaster, though I agree it would be better to lynch someone if we have any idea of who might be an acceptable target.

Some actual game-related stuff will come when I've finished catching up.


----------



## haneko

I'm also avoiding giving reads because, to borrow kokorico's words, it doesn't come naturally to me. I'd prefer to wait until something like a mafia kill occurs before I start trying to deduce things for real.

On the other hand, I would prefer to get someone lynched on day 1, so I vote* Stryke*. Sorry Stryke, nothing personal. :P


----------



## Stryke

Looking at all the lynchtrains that have been active so far, I kinda don't feel good about any of them? Trebeks was just to get into his head a bit/ fish for information, seshas is... He was acting fishy, I guess? (Would help if someone explained that one to me), and me and Mr. Ultracool just haven't posted enough. And then there was like one vote on myuma too because I think we couldn't think of anyone better but that never really got off the ground. It all just kind of feels like shots in the dark. Though I've only ever played here, so perhaps that's the tcod meta/abstain mindset talking. Idk. I definitely felt very suspicious about keldeo voting trebek out of seemingly nowhere way back then, and then taking a minute to elaborate, but... Not suspicious enough to do anything about it, I guess


----------



## mewtini

Stryke said:


> seshas is... He was acting fishy, I guess? (Would help if someone explained that one to me)


i can’t speak for skylar, who was the other person who ever voted for her i think (actually idk why emmy voted on seshas, idk if it was serious) but
i wouldn’t even call her play _fishy_ or whatever it just didn’t feel quite as good as i hoped; i think it’s very possible that it’s just due to her having an overall less active d1 (as far as her engagement goes) which is why i was eh about continuing to press there



Stryke said:


> there was like one vote on myuma too because I think we couldn't think of anyone better


mmm, eh. i think this is maybe an oversimplification though i’m so far chalking it up to “keldeo had rationale for this vote that he just isn’t telling us.” i’m still working through how i feel about this though :’) 



Stryke said:


> I definitely felt very suspicious about keldeo voting trebek out of seemingly nowhere way back then, and then taking a minute to elaborate


do you feel that way now, or are you saying you felt that way as you read it? (i.e. did you read/vibe with his explanation?)

is there anyone else you have thoughts about?


----------



## mewtini

kokorico said:


> All of which is to say: Please be gentle with those of us who don't seem to be reading people effectively.


i feel like it would be kind of scummy (Ha Ha) if i just ignored this post, so i wanted to say that i’m sorry for being kind of complicit here; i am struggling a lot with sorting people out and i know it’s in part because i don’t totally know how to tell those who just aren’t as comfortable reading others apart from “people i really should be looking at”


----------



## Vipera Magnifica

mewtini said:


> 5:20, zzz. tempted to unvote but maybe i should go somewhere? um ... voting with my gut says *VM*, for now. would like to hear about his emmy vote
> going to sleep and revisiting in the morning


People have already mentioned that Emmy's play seems a little bit different, and I found it a little suspect how she immediately jumped on the abstain vote when I started it, and then two seconds later pounced on seshas. In retrospect this is probably just... Emmy being Emmy. I kind of wanted to see how she reacted to me voting for her, but she didn't react to it at all so I later retracted that vote. I wasn't really all that set on an Emmy lynch, but since people were just throwing votes out there that's where I went. I'm probably going to just stay as no vote, because while I guess yeah a D1 lynch gives us some information even if it's wrong, I'd just rather not be a part of it since it's not really my playstyle to vote without reasonable suspicion based on flips, voting history, role claims, and other mechanical information. In TVTropes mafia I basically washed my hands of it by leaving a joke vote on JackPK's dead body. Thinking back to that game none of the mafia really gave any tells on D1 anyway, so I'm going to continue to be skeptical about this kind of D1 play. If you asked me what the optimal way to play would be, it would be a D1 abstain followed by lynches every day after that, but since that's going against the grain of how people want to play I'm basically in a "whatever, do what you wanna do" mindset right now.

I'm just giving my earnest thoughts about the game and I don't really care how that makes me appear right now. If I were mafia I'd probably be making a more concerted effort to "look towny" but I'm not too worried about doing that as town. You can keep asking me questions if you want but I've pretty much said all I feel like saying at this time about my own thoughts. I don't have any real scum reads on anyone but I am reasonably confident that Tofu, mewtini, and bluwiikoon are town.


----------



## Stryke

mewtini said:


> do you feel that way now, or are you saying you felt that way as you read it? (i.e. did you read/vibe with his explanation?)
> 
> is there anyone else you have thoughts about?


I skimmed his explanation, and it just felt very weird to drop a lynch vote out of nowhere with no immediate rationale as to why, or even an implied rationale (like kyeugh just kinda dropped a lunch vote on me out of nowhere, but I feel like you could tell it was so she could get more information out of me and get me to post more), and then have it revealed as just kind of like a test for Trebek, to get into his head. Most of me just wants to chalk it up to the fact that Keldeo is like 3 parallel universe ahead of me and seems to know what he's doing here, but there's a part of me that just can't shake that it feels a bit off. And yeah, I know he said he's trying a new playstyle, but that kinda seems like a convenient enough excuse. As for everyone else, no thoughts really. That thing with Keldeo is the only thing that jumped out at me at first glance


----------



## Stryke

> lunch vote


----------



## Mr. Ultracool

I'm really, really sorry for not posting, like, at all, but I just genuinely can't manage to read anything of relevance out of toDay. The only things I found even slightly suspicious were the WIFOM-Macavity Claim and kyeugh imploring the Mafia to read more into the kill flavor, since they are pretty much the only ones who would know exactly why and how someone was killed :/


----------



## mewtini

Vipera Magnifica said:


> You can keep asking me questions if you want but I've pretty much said all I feel like saying at this time about my own thoughts.


thanks! yeah i just wanted a response tbqh, i also didn't think VM's comments last night made total sense as scum since they were semi-clearly going to attract some attention by virtue of their tone - like, i didn't agree but i think that's just a fundamental difference in playstyle? lmk what everyone else thinks about that


Vipera Magnifica said:


> I kind of wanted to see how she reacted to me voting for her, but she didn't react to it at all so I later retracted that vote


thanks for explaining the emmyvote, that makes sense to me for now and i would probably agree with you if i didn't think she was likely to play a bit erratically either way. i was hoping we'd see her reaction too ... 
(btw vm, i am sorry for maybe contributing to your frustration yesterday. that wasn't my intention)

ummm. someone tell me what to think about stryke's posting, idrk what to do since nothing that made me light TR him in tvt really applies right now (where he wasn't super active, but made a couple of bluntly-worded original takes that went against thread consensus and a sensical readlist)
i think i feel slightly worse maybe but that's only really because i can't tell how genuine the confusion is
i don't want the ultracool lynchtrain unless it starts turning something else up

*stryke *until further notice.,


----------



## mewtini

hey dude!


Mr. Ultracool said:


> kyeugh imploring the Mafia to read more into the kill flavor


what do you mean by this?


----------



## mewtini

mewtini said:


> i also didn't think VM's comments last night made total sense as scum


by which i mean - i don't really see why scum puts themselves on the radar just for the sake of like, justifying a vote to abstain


----------



## Mr. Ultracool

mewtini said:


> hey dude!
> 
> 
> Mr. Ultracool said:
> 
> 
> 
> kyeugh imploring the Mafia to read more into the kill flavor
> 
> 
> 
> what do you mean by this?
Click to expand...

Well, I just found it weird that kyeugh posted this, because I don't get why the Mafia should care about the flavor: 


> actually i think the mafia should look at flavor more because every time we killed one of our own last game they glared at us in death and none of us noticed. just saying bro. just had to put that self own down


----------



## mewtini

oh, gotcha.

i don't mind that comment because it was meant to be jovially self-referential as i read it (the joke being that main ingroup mafia in tvtropes didn't know when they killed off the secret, "outgroup" mafia). i don't think her saying that was alignment-indicative, but i think i like your thought


----------



## RedneckPhoenix

kyeugh said:


> i wonder what happens if i do this...
> 
> *Stryke*


you don't KNOW how to make fun of him like i do. he used to have a neckbeard


----------



## mewtini

Mr. Ultracool said:


> I just genuinely can't manage to read anything of relevance out of toDay


oh last thing. did you have any thoughts about the trebek reaction test?


----------



## Stryke

RedneckPhoenix said:


> kyeugh said:
> 
> 
> 
> i wonder what happens if i do this...
> 
> *Stryke*
> 
> 
> 
> you don't KNOW how to make fun of him like i do. he used to have a neckbeard
Click to expand...

m'lady


----------



## kyeugh

i think i’m kind of seeing where keldeo was coming from about myuma


----------



## Mr. Ultracool

Not really, no. It seemed like a pretty standard reaction test to me - though that might both be because the metas I've played in have been a bit different and because I might have skimmed over a few of the #973 posts.


----------



## mewtini

i do as well ftr


----------



## kyeugh

i think if the mr ultracool wagon turned into a myuma one and we were between stryke/myuma that would feel ideal


----------



## mewtini

mewtini said:


> i do as well ftr


er this was in response to skylar



Mr. Ultracool said:


> Not really, no. It seemed like a pretty standard reaction test to me - though that might both be because the metas I've played in have been a bit different and because I might have skimmed over a few of the #973 posts.


cool, thanks! i guess what i meant to ask was did it impact your reads of anyone involved?


----------



## Mr. Ultracool

mewtini said:


> cool, thanks! i guess what i meant to ask was did it impact your reads of anyone involved?


I don't really think so, but just to be safe I'm going to go and re-read now


----------



## mewtini

kyeugh said:


> i think if the mr ultracool wagon turned into a myuma one and we were between stryke/myuma that would feel ideal


i'll give it some weight :p *myuma*


----------



## mewtini

(i would feel comfortable in a stryke vote still, but i would rather stryke/myuma than x/ultracool right now i think)


----------



## rari_teh

I’m having a better gut feeling about my vote on stryke than I was having before, ngl
though then I remember that I questioned his alignment in tvt and in the end he was the only so-called doctor who was town so I really don’t know


----------



## mewtini

quickcount


Spoiler: current total



_stryke (4):_ skylar, rari, herbe, myuma
_mr. ultracool (2):_ seshas, emmy
_skylar (1):_ RNP
_myuma (1):_ mewtini





Spoiler: history



_(x/y = x voted for y)_

skylar/skylar (#162)
skylar/uvote (#166)
keldeo/trebek (#509)
keldeo/uvote(#589)
keldeo/myuma (#710)
skylar/seshas (#760)
mewtini/seshas (#766)
*seshas/ultracool (#797)*
VM/abstain (#800)
emmy/abstain (#801)
emmy/abstain (#803)
*emmy/seshas (#805)*
VM/emmy (#819)
*RNP/skylar (#833)*
keldeo/uvote (#883)
VM/uvote (#892)
mewtini/ultracool(#893)
*keldeo/ultracool (#905)
skylar/stryke (#907)
rari/stryke (#909)
herbe/stryke (#910)*
mewtini/VM (#950)
*myuma/stryke (#957)
mewtini/myuma (#979)*


----------



## mewtini

current total should have included the single vote on seshas


----------



## Tangrowth

Good morning!


----------



## mewtini

morning!


----------



## Tangrowth

Okay, if I am to understand correctly, I have about 2 hours. Let's see what I can contribute.


----------



## Tangrowth

mewtini said:


> morning!


Every time I'm in here, you're in here. That's pretty cool.


----------



## mewtini

i'm in here a lot because i get scared of getting left behind.
also i will be less active over the next hour bc of a meeting but i'll be back after that (~2pm)


----------



## Tangrowth

mewtini said:


> quickcount
> 
> 
> Spoiler: current total
> 
> 
> 
> _stryke (4):_ skylar, rari, herbe, myuma
> _mr. ultracool (2):_ seshas, emmy
> _skylar (1):_ RNP
> _myuma (1):_ mewtini
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler: history
> 
> 
> 
> _(x/y = x voted for y)_
> 
> skylar/skylar (#162)
> skylar/uvote (#166)
> keldeo/trebek (#509)
> keldeo/uvote(#589)
> keldeo/myuma (#710)
> skylar/seshas (#760)
> mewtini/seshas (#766)
> *seshas/ultracool (#797)*
> VM/abstain (#800)
> emmy/abstain (#801)
> emmy/abstain (#803)
> *emmy/seshas (#805)*
> VM/emmy (#819)
> *RNP/skylar (#833)*
> keldeo/uvote (#883)
> VM/uvote (#892)
> mewtini/ultracool(#893)
> *keldeo/ultracool (#905)
> skylar/stryke (#907)
> rari/stryke (#909)
> herbe/stryke (#910)*
> mewtini/VM (#950)
> *myuma/stryke (#957)
> mewtini/myuma (#979)*


I'll try to prioritize looking at these players first.


----------



## Tangrowth

mewtini said:


> i'm in here a lot because i get scared of getting left behind.
> also i will be less active over the next hour bc of a meeting but i'll be back after that (~2pm)


I understand that, usually I'm in mafia threads as much as I can be because I have an addiction.

I have some work I'll be juggling too, but otherwise I'll be here until EoD for sure.


----------



## Superjolt

Hey, could someone give me a lowdown on the current wagons and maybe point toward relevant posts? Also, Seshas was a wagon at one point?

Definitely won’t be caught up by eod but let’s see what I can do in the meantime


----------



## rari_teh

Superjolt said:


> Hey, could someone give me a lowdown on the current wagons and maybe point toward relevant posts? Also, Seshas was a wagon at one point?
> 
> Definitely won’t be caught up by eod but let’s see what I can do in the meantime


Seshas was a small wagon of two? people at its peak. now she only has one vote (IndigoEmmy, who parked her vote on her apparently out of spite after being told by Seshas not to abstain)

Ultracool and Stryke are almost the same thing: both posted a little, but neither actually voiced much their opinion and are walking rebuses
Stryke came back after his wagon inflated and gave a little bit of his reads, but most of it was kinda evasive imo? though that isn’t necessarily AI

kyeugh was voted by RNP as a joke/out of spite? only RNP knows


----------



## rari_teh

wrt myumawagon I have no idea why some are sussing them tbh


----------



## Tangrowth

rari_teh said:


> wrt myumawagon I have no idea why some are sussing them tbh


Hey rari! What's your read on myuma right now then?


----------



## Tangrowth

Having looked back, I see the suspicion surrounding Seshas as clearly culture clash. Not feeling a vote there.

I'd like to hear more about how Ultracool and Stryke play normally, does anyone know?


----------



## Tangrowth

Reading players due to meta reasons is going to be a challenge, but I welcome it.



myuma said:


> I'm also avoiding giving reads because, to borrow kokorico's words, it doesn't come naturally to me. I'd prefer to wait until something like a mafia kill occurs before I start trying to deduce things for real.
> 
> On the other hand, I would prefer to get someone lynched on day 1, so I vote* Stryke*. Sorry Stryke, nothing personal. :P


Myuma, can you speak to this some more if you don't mind? Why would you not find value in behavioral reads? Same question for koko and VM if they want.


----------



## IndigoClaudia

*Unvote*

I was just being petty actually.
Abstain song: Continue


----------



## Tangrowth

mewtini said:


> kokorico said:
> 
> 
> 
> All of which is to say: Please be gentle with those of us who don't seem to be reading people effectively.
> 
> 
> 
> i feel like it would be kind of scummy (Ha Ha) if i just ignored this post, so i wanted to say that i’m sorry for being kind of complicit here; i am struggling a lot with sorting people out and i know it’s in part because i don’t totally know how to tell those who just aren’t as comfortable reading others apart from “people i really should be looking at”
Click to expand...

mewtini, can you talk to me about this some more? Do you have any read on koko specifically?


----------



## Tangrowth

IndigoEmmy said:


> *Unvote*
> 
> I was just being petty actually.
> Abstain song: Continue


What do you mean by being petty?


----------



## IndigoClaudia

M Plus 7 said:


> IndigoEmmy said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Unvote*
> 
> I was just being petty actually.
> Abstain song: Continue
> 
> 
> 
> What do you mean by being petty?
Click to expand...

Seshas said i should vote for someone so i decided to vote for Seshas. I was just being petty, i don't actually think he's suspicious. Who knows though.


----------



## Tangrowth

IndigoEmmy said:


> M Plus 7 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> IndigoEmmy said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Unvote*
> 
> I was just being petty actually.
> Abstain song: Continue
> 
> 
> 
> What do you mean by being petty?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Seshas said i should vote for someone so i decided to vote for Seshas. I was just being petty, i don't actually think he's suspicious. Who knows though.
Click to expand...

Oh, of course, ignore me -- just being dense. Do you have any reads on anyone else?


----------



## Bluwiikoon

Oh gosh, end of Day is that soon, huh? Not sure where to throw my vote rn, but I'll try to keep up with everyone's analysis and try to think about it  At this point, I guess all we really have is vibes!


----------



## IndigoClaudia

> Oh, of course, ignore me -- just being dense. Do you have any reads on anyone else?


Mewtini, Blu = Good


----------



## Tangrowth

Bluwiikoon said:


> Oh gosh, end of Day is that soon, huh? Not sure where to throw my vote rn, but I'll try to keep up with everyone's analysis and try to think about it  At this point, I guess all we really have is vibes!


What vibes do you have right now? Apologies if you've spoken to this already, I still haven't read most of the thread, lol.


----------



## Tangrowth

IndigoEmmy said:


> Oh, of course, ignore me -- just being dense. Do you have any reads on anyone else?
> 
> 
> 
> Mewtini, Blu = Good
Click to expand...

Cool, I agree with you about mewtini. Can you speak more to the logic behind abstaining if you don't mind?


----------



## Tangrowth

Mr. Ultracool said:


> I'm really, really sorry for not posting, like, at all, but I just genuinely can't manage to read anything of relevance out of toDay. The only things I found even slightly suspicious were the WIFOM-Macavity Claim and kyeugh imploring the Mafia to read more into the kill flavor, since they are pretty much the only ones who would know exactly why and how someone was killed :/


This naturally reads sincere to me.


----------



## IndigoClaudia

Darn why do things come up when i play cats mafia. :C i have to go. Sorry something kinda happened. :C byee


----------



## Tangrowth

IndigoEmmy said:


> Darn why do things come up when i play cats mafia. :C i have to go. Sorry something kinda happened. :C byee


No worries, stay safe!


----------



## IndigoClaudia

M Plus 7 said:


> IndigoEmmy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Oh, of course, ignore me -- just being dense. Do you have any reads on anyone else?
> 
> 
> 
> Mewtini, Blu = Good
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Cool, I agree with you about mewtini. Can you speak more to the logic behind abstaining if you don't mind?
Click to expand...

Why kill if we don't know. But if i had to vote i'd vote for seshas. 

I'll be back in a few hours :D bye


----------



## rari_teh

I made a couple charts to help track us the vote history!
These don’t take into account Emmy’s recent unvote btw because it happened while I made the charts :v


Spoiler: Large Pictures™




———​


----------



## Tangrowth

Trebek said:


> M Plus 7 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Hey Trebek, I likely won't stay for long because of sleepy reasons, but do you want to chat briefly? What are your reads? Is there anything you think I should prioritize heavily first thing in the morning to help make a vote determination?
> 
> 
> 
> havent devoted nearly enough brainpower to recent posts, but have still been mulling over the parties involved in keldeos vote on me from before.
> 
> I still have a sinking suspicion that at least one of the people involved was mafia just bc if not it feels like the whole thing would have been finished much faster. However, im not as predisposed to use this to be suspicious of rari/mewt as i was at about this time yesterday, mewt especially since i still have very good vibes about her concerning copcover. i am currently rereading recent posts for like the 7th time, just bc i am horrible at information retention, but i think im most likely going to put my reads on the back burner for now and see where the other trains go (as i mentioned earlier, i am hesitant to made reads that go too deep until more mech things happen, just bc that is definitely where my strength lies, as opposed to the very social aspect of D1)
Click to expand...

While I appreciated this response, looking back at it, I'm unsure how much I like it. 

@Keldeo, when you return, can you talk to me about Trebek?


----------



## Bluwiikoon

M Plus 7 said:


> What vibes do you have right now? Apologies if you've spoken to this already, I still haven't read most of the thread, lol.


No worries! ^^ I feel pretty good about kyeugh and mewtini, and I really townlean mewtini especially. Keldeo is my cop cover but I also like how he incites discussions. Pretty good feelings about you too based on tone, and Superjolt ^^

The Great Trebek Push made me  about rari, purely based on the fact that I hadn't noticed much activity from them and then the Push resulted in a lot of activity from them in a short space of time. Other than that, not sure to make of RNP and Stryke :-( RNP is allegedly Always Like That, but it seems like they're a bit unhappy about any kind of voting on D1, particularly against Stryke. Meanwhile, Stryke's reaction to their wagon is equivalent to a (shrug)

Also not sure what to think of VM due to tone atm, or any people that haven't really posted much. But hey, probably more mech stuff on d2!


----------



## Tangrowth

IndigoEmmy said:


> M Plus 7 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> IndigoEmmy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Oh, of course, ignore me -- just being dense. Do you have any reads on anyone else?
> 
> 
> 
> Mewtini, Blu = Good
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Cool, I agree with you about mewtini. Can you speak more to the logic behind abstaining if you don't mind?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Why kill if we don't know. But if i had to vote i'd vote for seshas.
> 
> I'll be back in a few hours :D bye
Click to expand...

Well, I'm used to commonly playing games that are called mountainous, where there are no roles -- which, of course, is the extreme other side of things, but... from a mathematical standpoint, it puts town a worse position regardless of uncertainties to not use the best power they have in their arsenal, and that's the lynch.


----------



## Tangrowth

rari_teh said:


> I made a couple charts to help track us the vote history!
> These don’t take into account Emmy’s recent unvote btw because it happened while I made the charts :v
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Large Pictures™
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 592
> ———​View attachment 593


These are much appreciated, thank you!


----------



## Butterfree

kyeugh said:


> i think i’m kind of seeing where keldeo was coming from about myuma


Can you elaborate on what you’re thinking there?

I’m not really feeling Stryke or Ultracool; they’re not very active but they aren’t _not_ contributing, and their posting feels pretty pure to me. I always feel a bit funny about players who feel the need to talk a lot about how they’re town without it being a necessary point, which is something I’ve been vaguely squinting at in Herbe and VM, but on the other hand otherwise VM also feels extremely me in my mafia championships game on MU (where I was town), which makes me disinclined.

I honestly can’t really remember what myuma has been posting at all. I guess I will take a look when I’m actually home and see how I feel about it.


----------



## Tangrowth

Bluwiikoon said:


> M Plus 7 said:
> 
> 
> 
> What vibes do you have right now? Apologies if you've spoken to this already, I still haven't read most of the thread, lol.
> 
> 
> 
> No worries! ^^ I feel pretty good about kyeugh and mewtini, and I really townlean mewtini especially. Keldeo is my cop cover but I also like how he incites discussions. Pretty good feelings about you too based on tone, and Superjolt ^^
> 
> The Great Trebek Push made me  about rari, purely based on the fact that I hadn't noticed much activity from them and then the Push resulted in a lot of activity from them in a short space of time. Other than that, not sure to make of RNP and Stryke :-( RNP is allegedly Always Like That, but it seems like they're a bit unhappy about any kind of voting on D1, particularly against Stryke. Meanwhile, Stryke's reaction to their wagon is equivalent to a (shrug)
> 
> Also not sure what to think of VM due to tone atm, or any people that haven't really posted much. But hey, probably more mech stuff on d2!
Click to expand...

Awesome, this is definitely helpful, thanks. Can you expand on the rari thoughts there? Like, how would you think that impacts your read of their alignment at all?


----------



## Tangrowth

Butterfree said:


> kyeugh said:
> 
> 
> 
> i think i’m kind of seeing where keldeo was coming from about myuma
> 
> 
> 
> Can you elaborate on what you’re thinking there?
> 
> I’m not really feeling Stryke or Ultracool; they’re not very active but they aren’t _not_ contributing, and their posting feels pretty pure to me. I always feel a bit funny about players who feel the need to talk a lot about how they’re town without it being a necessary point, which is something I’ve been vaguely squinting at in Herbe and VM, but on the other hand otherwise VM also feels extremely me in my mafia championships game on MU (where I was town), which makes me disinclined.
> 
> I honestly can’t really remember what myuma has been posting at all. I guess I will take a look when I’m actually home and see how I feel about it.
Click to expand...

Oh, you played in Champs? Awesome! What game?

What about Stryke and Ultracool feels pure? I agree with you on the latter, not sure about the former.


----------



## kyeugh

M Plus 7 said:


> Having looked back, I see the suspicion surrounding Seshas as clearly culture clash. Not feeling a vote there.


i don’t think so honestly


----------



## Tangrowth

Superjolt said:


> Ok so I didn't get quite as far as I hoped, I'm still pretty exhausted from traveling over the weekend (16 hour drive both down and back!) I got up to somewhere around Keldeo voting Trebek but my brain really started fizzling out after this
> 
> Here's some more thoughts (just not totally organized):
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler
> 
> 
> 
> Up to page 18 and I see that Keldeo kind of has the same thoughts/reads that I had (esp. on mewtini and Blu, and later others have similar thoughts as well so I'm glad I'm not the only one there. I like mewtini more as I go as she seems to get more solvey (also thanks to mewtini for pointing out pages/posts to me!)
> 
> Seshas is someone I really want to reread/ISO
> 
> I feel like I should have some opinion on kyeugh at this point but I kind of don't so she's maybe worth a reread too? I do see more posts from her coming up after Keldeo's vote so maybe that will help out a bit
> 
> Also want to reread rari posts
> 
> Keldeo seems okay for now. I do like that he voted to get people talking (and for the record I do agree with Keldeo that it's never too early to vote!). I'm good with him being town for now.
> 
> ILS seemed to get town reads for flavor spec for some reason, and then even pointed out himself that it's not something that should warrant a town read but he doesn't really do anything else? Like, I feel like that should have been paired with something else like "you're right that me flavor spec'ing doesn't mean anything, now let me actually Do Things!" but he really doesn't do anything else, and the next time he posts is in reaction to Keldeo's vote on Trebek I think? I'm pretty tired now so idk if this makes sense. Part of me wonders if this may not be a bad place to vote?
> 
> I feel like I've got a handful of town, and then a _ton_ of nulls but like not really any scum reads at this point so I feel like I'm missing something
> 
> 
> 
> I think I need more time to read/look things over. I'll only be around for about 4 hours tomorrow probably before EOD and idk if I'll be fully caught up by then, I might have to catch up during Night instead (which might be better actually, so glad that nights will be 48 hours!) I think by Day 2 I'll have a better grasp of things.


I like how disorganized this is, I think it reads like cog turning.


----------



## Tangrowth

kyeugh said:


> M Plus 7 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Having looked back, I see the suspicion surrounding Seshas as clearly culture clash. Not feeling a vote there.
> 
> 
> 
> i don’t think so honestly
Click to expand...

Can you elaborate? It's possible I'm missing something.


----------



## kyeugh

M Plus 7 said:


> Can you elaborate? It's possible I'm missing something.


i started the wagon on seshas and it was because i thought their play felt different/less engaged from the previous game we played in


----------



## Tangrowth

kyeugh said:


> M Plus 7 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Can you elaborate? It's possible I'm missing something.
> 
> 
> 
> i started the wagon on seshas and it was because i thought their play felt different/less engaged from the previous game we played in
Click to expand...

Oh, I'm clearly missing context then, let me go back and look some more. Thank you!


----------



## Bluwiikoon

M Plus 7 said:


> Bluwiikoon said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> M Plus 7 said:
> 
> 
> 
> What vibes do you have right now? Apologies if you've spoken to this already, I still haven't read most of the thread, lol.
> 
> 
> 
> No worries! ^^ I feel pretty good about kyeugh and mewtini, and I really townlean mewtini especially. Keldeo is my cop cover but I also like how he incites discussions. Pretty good feelings about you too based on tone, and Superjolt ^^
> 
> The Great Trebek Push made me  about rari, purely based on the fact that I hadn't noticed much activity from them and then the Push resulted in a lot of activity from them in a short space of time. Other than that, not sure to make of RNP and Stryke :-( RNP is allegedly Always Like That, but it seems like they're a bit unhappy about any kind of voting on D1, particularly against Stryke. Meanwhile, Stryke's reaction to their wagon is equivalent to a (shrug)
> 
> Also not sure what to think of VM due to tone atm, or any people that haven't really posted much. But hey, probably more mech stuff on d2!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Awesome, this is definitely helpful, thanks. Can you expand on the rari thoughts there? Like, how would you think that impacts your read of their alignment at all?
Click to expand...

Sure thing! I feel like it's probably not necessarily indicative of anything right now, but I'd probably just want to keep an eye on other posts they make going forward. Others generally seem to feel ok about rari, so I don't really want to scumread them yet unless they make any other strange-feeling plays. Additionally, mewtini said that her and rari acted pretty similarly during the Trebek Incident, but I kinda skimmed mewtini's posts throughout that section due to having such a big townlean on her already ^^


----------



## Tangrowth

kyeugh said:


> oh yeah seshas
> i kind of wouldn’t oppose a seshas wagon? tbh? this is another case of “doesnt feel as solvey as i expect” which is maybe unfair


@kyeugh, do you mind expanding on the differences between Seshas here and what you expect for me? I've read around this part but it's still sort of unclear.


----------



## JackPK

Reminder: The day phase will end in *60 minutes*.

I have combed through the thread again as I said I would, and didn't find any votes I hadn't already recorded (except a couple of joke votes which I've opted to list below with a strikethrough for posterity).

*Active votes*
Seshas votes Mr. Ultracool (#797)
RedneckPhoenix votes kyeugh (#833)
Keldeo votes Mr. Ultracool (#905)
kyeugh votes Stryke (#907)
rari_teh votes Stryke (#909)
Herbe votes Stryke (#910)
myuma votes Stryke (#957)
mewtini votes myuma (#979)



Spoiler: Full vote history



Active votes bolded. Invalid votes stricken through.

kyeugh votes kyeugh (#162)
kyeugh unvotes (#166)
Keldeo votes Trebek (#509)
Vipera Magnifica votes Mawile (#516)
Keldeo unvotes (#589)
Keldeo votes myuma (#710)
kyeugh votes Seshas (#760)
mewtini votes Seshas (#766)
Vipera Magnifica votes Eifie (#781)
*Seshas votes Mr. Ultracool (#797)*
Vipera Magnifica votes abstain (#800)
IndigoEmmy votes abstain (#801)
IndigoEmmy votes abstain (#803)
IndigoEmmy votes Seshas (#805)
Vipera Magnifica votes IndigoEmmy (#819)
*RedneckPhoenix votes kyeugh (#833)*
Keldeo unvotes (#883)
Vipera Magnifica unvotes (#892)
mewtini votes Mr. Ultracool (#893)
*Keldeo votes Mr. Ultracool (#905)
kyeugh votes Stryke (#907)
rari_teh votes Stryke (#909)
Herbe votes Stryke (#910)*
mewtini votes Vipera Magnifica (#950)
*myuma votes Stryke (#957)*
mewtini votes Stryke (#965)
*mewtini votes myuma (#979)*
IndigoEmmy unvotes (#997)



I'll also give a 10-minute grace period between EOD and flips so anyone can alert me to overlooked votes (if any exist).


----------



## kyeugh

Butterfree said:


> Can you elaborate on what you’re thinking there?


 myuma’s posting overall has been just:

the comment about online times, specifically calling people out by name who were online but hadn’t posted and casting it as “suspicious”
describing keldeo as being “having an agenda” for trying to form a towncore (?)
neglecting to post reads despite having shaded five people to some extent, and townleaned five or six more; they say reads doesn’t come naturally to them but i feel they’ve demonstrated otherwise in even their limited posting, so to me this could conceivably just be an out from explaining in more detail
eventually just voting on the majority wagon
i don’t think this stuff is impossible from town, but meh, i can definitely see it as coming from a wolf who feels a bit too anxious to fully engage and is just trying to fly under the radar, either.


----------



## Tangrowth

Bluwiikoon said:


> M Plus 7 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Bluwiikoon said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> M Plus 7 said:
> 
> 
> 
> What vibes do you have right now? Apologies if you've spoken to this already, I still haven't read most of the thread, lol.
> 
> 
> 
> No worries! ^^ I feel pretty good about kyeugh and mewtini, and I really townlean mewtini especially. Keldeo is my cop cover but I also like how he incites discussions. Pretty good feelings about you too based on tone, and Superjolt ^^
> 
> The Great Trebek Push made me  about rari, purely based on the fact that I hadn't noticed much activity from them and then the Push resulted in a lot of activity from them in a short space of time. Other than that, not sure to make of RNP and Stryke :-( RNP is allegedly Always Like That, but it seems like they're a bit unhappy about any kind of voting on D1, particularly against Stryke. Meanwhile, Stryke's reaction to their wagon is equivalent to a (shrug)
> 
> Also not sure what to think of VM due to tone atm, or any people that haven't really posted much. But hey, probably more mech stuff on d2!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Awesome, this is definitely helpful, thanks. Can you expand on the rari thoughts there? Like, how would you think that impacts your read of their alignment at all?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Sure thing! I feel like it's probably not necessarily indicative of anything right now, but I'd probably just want to keep an eye on other posts they make going forward. Others generally seem to feel ok about rari, so I don't really want to scumread them yet unless they make any other strange-feeling plays. Additionally, mewtini said that her and rari acted pretty similarly during the Trebek Incident, but I kinda skimmed mewtini's posts throughout that section due to having such a big townlean on her already ^^
Click to expand...

Okay, cool, this works. Thanks much!

How are you feeling about the gamestate and your vote now then? Looks like we're 1 hour out. Are there players you want me to look at with urgency? I'm still making my way through mewtini's reads list and sort of digging back for various context, but I love taking requests anyway.


----------



## rari_teh

M Plus 7 said:


> rari_teh said:
> 
> 
> 
> wrt myumawagon I have no idea why some are sussing them tbh
> 
> 
> 
> Hey rari! What's your read on myuma right now then?
Click to expand...

Their posts ping me as excited!townie who’s a little frustrated by not being able to form concrete reads
I agree that defending them over their reads based on login time is kinda flimsy and not really AI, but I kinda have a good gut feeling about this?
If they’re ever lynched and flip red I’m going to look like a fool, but I don’t remember seeing anything coming from them that pinged me as weird


M Plus 7 said:


> I'd like to hear more about how Ultracool and Stryke play normally, does anyone know?


idk if I can vouch for how they _normally_ play, but I was with them in tvt (where the three of us were town), and what I can tell is that Ultracool tends to lurk and his rare postings are kinda… visceral, maybe I could use this word here? and he doesn’t tend to give many reads
Stryke struck me as odd in tvt (no pun intended), as like, he would give some blunt reads sometimes that kinda looked weird? (no offense intended)
also his doctor claim smelled a bit funny to me and there was definitely something up with the three claimed doctors at that point. my suspicion was that Stryke was mafia doctor, turns out that RNP was roleblocking him every night and he was the only town between the three of them. so yeah, maybe you should also ask someone else about Stryke’s playstyle lol


----------



## kyeugh

kyeugh said:


> either


idk why i wrote “either” here.


----------



## Tangrowth

kyeugh said:


> Butterfree said:
> 
> 
> 
> Can you elaborate on what you’re thinking there?
> 
> 
> 
> myuma’s posting overall has been just:
> 
> the comment about online times, specifically calling people out by name who were online but hadn’t posted and casting it as “suspicious”
> describing keldeo as being “having an agenda” for trying to form a towncore (?)
> neglecting to post reads despite having shaded five people to some extent, and townleaned five or six more; they say reads doesn’t come naturally to them but i feel they’ve demonstrated otherwise in even their limited posting, so to me this could conceivably just be an out from explaining in more detail
> eventually just voting on the majority wagon
> i don’t think this stuff is impossible from town, but meh, i can definitely see it as coming from a wolf who feels a bit too anxious to fully engage and is just trying to fly under the radar, either.
Click to expand...

Let me ISO them right now and see how I feel compared to your notes.


----------



## mewtini

yo i'm back. catching up


----------



## rari_teh

kyeugh said:


> neglecting to post reads despite having shaded five people to some extent, and townleaned five or six more; they say reads doesn’t come naturally to them but i feel they’ve demonstrated otherwise in even their limited posting, so to me this could conceivably just be an out from explaining in more detail


this legit got me thinking… hm.
Stryke is two votes ahead of the second wagon. What if we do something for science?
I’m no longer vibin. *myuma*


----------



## kyeugh

M Plus 7 said:


> kyeugh said:
> 
> 
> 
> oh yeah seshas
> i kind of wouldn’t oppose a seshas wagon? tbh? this is another case of “doesnt feel as solvey as i expect” which is maybe unfair
> 
> 
> 
> @kyeugh, do you mind expanding on the differences between Seshas here and what you expect for me? I've read around this part but it's still sort of unclear.
Click to expand...

it’s a bit nebulous, which is why i ultimately unvoted. mostly i remember seshas as a very active player who was questioning people and trying pretty hard to solve/sort from a pretty early point, so the fact the they’ve been a bit less engaged in this game suggested to me that maybe they’re being less forthcoming because they’re a wolf. however i’m not even sure they really were as active as i’m remembering because i didn’t bother to double check the beginning of tvt to verify, and i can buy that they’re just not as plugged into this game—they have made some posts that have the level of solviness and insight that i was expecting.


----------



## mewtini

M Plus 7 said:


> I see the suspicion surrounding Seshas as clearly culture clash. Not feeling a vote there


i don't think it's culture clash - i was seshas' biggest proponent in the last game we played, haha, and kyeugh and i were the only two ever on her wagon! the only person clashing with her is VM i guess. you'll probably end up finding a post of me saying this before circling back here, but she has the ability to make really sharp microreads (which she did regularly in the last game) that isn't showing up here. the thing is, in the last game she wasn't really around for the first few day phases either, and i'm going to reserve judgment because i don't actually feel bad vibes from her


M Plus 7 said:


> I'd like to hear more about how Ultracool and Stryke play normally, does anyone know?


ultracool was town (with an ultimately super influential PR) in the last game, and he posted like a couple of joke posts and a few very "visceral" posts as rari said - where he took people's phrases or jokes a bit too literally, but in a way that read scared town. i get the sameish vibe from him here. he was SUPER lurky there as well, i'm just afraid to give him too much of a pass because of that though

stryke was kinda weird last game (was clearly keeping up with the thread but not really talking) but when pinged/asked directly he gave pretty original/out-of-the-box ideas that were hard for me to read as well. but then he ended up being town doc


----------



## mewtini

mewtini said:


> kyeugh and i were the only two ever on her wagon!


in this game


----------



## rari_teh

mewtini said:


> mewtini said:
> 
> 
> 
> kyeugh and i were the only two ever on her wagon!
> 
> 
> 
> in this game
Click to expand...

Emmy was in as well


----------



## mewtini

kyeugh said:


> myuma’s posting overall has been just:
> 
> the comment about online times, specifically calling people out by name who were online but hadn’t posted and casting it as “suspicious”
> describing keldeo as being “having an agenda” for trying to form a towncore (?)
> neglecting to post reads despite having shaded five people to some extent, and townleaned five or six more; they say reads doesn’t come naturally to them but i feel they’ve demonstrated otherwise in even their limited posting, so to me this could conceivably just be an out from explaining in more detail
> eventually just voting on the majority wagon
> i don’t think this stuff is impossible from town, but meh, i can definitely see it as coming from a wolf who feels a bit too anxious to fully engage and is just trying to fly under the radar


i agree pretty much
the comment about online times could've been NAI but i also am just uncomfortable with people who show up only to shade :/


----------



## Tangrowth

Man, that's a tough read re: Seshas. The shading is my biggest problem with it. Holding the cards close to the chest... that could go either way. otherwise I could see the case for town.


----------



## mewtini

rari_teh said:


> Emmy was in as well


oh thanks, i forgot about that!


----------



## kyeugh

mewtini said:


> stryke was kinda weird last game (was clearly keeping up with the thread but not really talking)


for what it’s worth, my understanding is that this is pretty much how he plays. he can feel free to correct me on that though.

i’m kind of not feeling stryke overly much right now, so i’m going to switch to *myuma*. if anyone else comes off stryke i’ll probably switch back though, i want there to be two competing wagons here.


----------



## Tangrowth

Work thing popping up, but I'll be back in 15-20.


----------



## rari_teh

mewtini said:


> the comment about online times could've been NAI but i also am just uncomfortable with people who show up only to shade :/


eh, I agree that popping up just to voice shades doesn’t ring well, though it appears to be a trend with some new players
see serimachi in tvt who just popped up to suss eifie and then legit disappeared (both were town)


----------



## mewtini

@.skylar yeah that's the vibe i got, since stryke was inno! i just have a stronger gut feel about myuma. also although i don't think i love stryke's responses (the kind of shrugging, reticent ones) i don't know him well enough to read into them :/
and i honestly do not want an ultracool lynch, i've strengthened my opinion there



rari_teh said:


> see serimachi in tvt who just popped up to suss eifie


that was a pretty different shading energy though imo


----------



## rari_teh

mewtini said:


> that was a pretty different shading energy though imo


yeah, it was pretty different, but imho still similar in my eyes


----------



## kyeugh

mewtini said:


> also although i don't think i love stryke's responses (the kind of shrugging, reticent ones) i don't know him well enough to read into them :/


 hard to make a real read on this since it’s easy to fake and an intense reaction would probably be scumread, but i think this stuff could often come from vanilla town or town with a weak role too, especially if he’s not feeling particularly engaged with the game. idk. i’ll kick myself for saying that if he’s a wolf.


----------



## haneko

M Plus 7 said:


> Reading players due to meta reasons is going to be a challenge, but I welcome it.
> 
> 
> 
> myuma said:
> 
> 
> 
> I'm also avoiding giving reads because, to borrow kokorico's words, it doesn't come naturally to me. I'd prefer to wait until something like a mafia kill occurs before I start trying to deduce things for real.
> 
> On the other hand, I would prefer to get someone lynched on day 1, so I vote* Stryke*. Sorry Stryke, nothing personal. :P
> 
> 
> 
> Myuma, can you speak to this some more if you don't mind? Why would you not find value in behavioral reads? Same question for koko and VM if they want.
Click to expand...

I try to give reads but in all honesty I don’t think I’m good at it, so I don’t want to depend on them when it comes to my reasoning.

I made a few posts about my thoughts on other players earlier in the game because I wanted to contribute to the conversation somehow. Mainly because I think inactive players are more likely to get lynched earlier in the game, and I think they tend to look more suspicious overall


----------



## mewtini

rari_teh said:


> yeah, it was pretty different, but imho still similar in my eyes


idk. this isn't really worth talking about for now but i think that serimachi posting a few times to say "i can't keep up" and _not understanding eifie joking_ (which is probably cultureshock for anyone who's literal-minded) is way different from the myuma case at hand


----------



## mewtini

i have to read stryke again though, idk


----------



## rari_teh

mewtini said:


> rari_teh said:
> 
> 
> 
> yeah, it was pretty different, but imho still similar in my eyes
> 
> 
> 
> idk. this isn't really worth talking about for now but i think that serimachi posting a few times to say "i can't keep up" and _not understanding eifie joking_ (which is probably cultureshock for anyone who's literal-minded) is way different from the myuma case at hand
Click to expand...

you got a point there.


----------



## Keldeo

Quickly reading up since my last post and then I am here to do Deadline Things!


Stryke said:


> mewtini said:
> 
> 
> 
> do you feel that way now, or are you saying you felt that way as you read it? (i.e. did you read/vibe with his explanation?)
> 
> is there anyone else you have thoughts about?
> 
> 
> 
> I skimmed his explanation, and it just felt very weird to drop a lynch vote out of nowhere with no immediate rationale as to why, or even an implied rationale (like kyeugh just kinda dropped a lunch vote on me out of nowhere, but I feel like you could tell it was so she could get more information out of me and get me to post more), and then have it revealed as just kind of like a test for Trebek, to get into his head. Most of me just wants to chalk it up to the fact that Keldeo is like 3 parallel universe ahead of me and seems to know what he's doing here, but there's a part of me that just can't shake that it feels a bit off. And yeah, I know he said he's trying a new playstyle, but that kinda seems like a convenient enough excuse. As for everyone else, no thoughts really. That thing with Keldeo is the only thing that jumped out at me at first glance
Click to expand...

lol, FTR the reason I dropped the vote and didn’t explain for awhile was (1) because the whole point was to see his explanation and (2) because I went to go eat dinner


----------



## mewtini

sorry if me keeping votecount is annoying, i just really don't want a repeat of the ILS/otter situation from last game where i literally broke a tie without knowing it :|

active votes:
myuma (3): mewtini, rari, kyeugh
stryke (2): herbe, myuma
ultracool (2): seshas, keldeo
kyeugh (1): rnp

seshas/ultracool 797
rnp/kyeugh 833
keldeo/ultracool 905
herbe/stryke 910
myuma/stryke 957
mewtini/myuma 979
rari/myuma 1032
kyeugh/myuma 1040


----------



## haneko

Oh yeah, while I think Keldeo has an agenda, I specifically chose not to say whether it’s good or bad because I think it’s too early to say. If Keldeo is town, it makes a lot of sense they would want to play the way they are. Equally, their aggressive play style comes across to me as the sort of thing you would do to look town, but seeing as I only have one, rather shaky reason to say they are Mafia I don’t want to accuse them of anything


----------



## mewtini

i also don't think myuma voting on maj wagon is a great look but maybe it's early crossvoting?


----------



## Keldeo

M Plus 7 said:


> Trebek said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> M Plus 7 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Hey Trebek, I likely won't stay for long because of sleepy reasons, but do you want to chat briefly? What are your reads? Is there anything you think I should prioritize heavily first thing in the morning to help make a vote determination?
> 
> 
> 
> havent devoted nearly enough brainpower to recent posts, but have still been mulling over the parties involved in keldeos vote on me from before.
> 
> I still have a sinking suspicion that at least one of the people involved was mafia just bc if not it feels like the whole thing would have been finished much faster. However, im not as predisposed to use this to be suspicious of rari/mewt as i was at about this time yesterday, mewt especially since i still have very good vibes about her concerning copcover. i am currently rereading recent posts for like the 7th time, just bc i am horrible at information retention, but i think im most likely going to put my reads on the back burner for now and see where the other trains go (as i mentioned earlier, i am hesitant to made reads that go too deep until more mech things happen, just bc that is definitely where my strength lies, as opposed to the very social aspect of D1)
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> While I appreciated this response, looking back at it, I'm unsure how much I like it.
> 
> @Keldeo, when you return, can you talk to me about Trebek?
Click to expand...

I posted about this a little last night, but I liked his reaction to my vote a lot in real-time and I enjoyed the fact that he kept giving thoughts afterward instead of retreating into just continuing to post about being self-conscious or something. Not a vote I’m considering at least for today. 

This post could be like, setting up ~shade at Rari and Mewtini without committing but maybe he’d commit more as mafia? I don’t really know.


----------



## haneko

So yeah basically I’m trying not to look too inactive :|


----------



## kyeugh

myuma said:


> Oh yeah, while I think Keldeo has an agenda, I specifically chose not to say whether it’s good or bad because I think it’s too early to say.


 can you expand on this? i’m kind of confused. it seems like you’re basically saying “keldeo has an alignment, but it could be either,” which...


----------



## Keldeo

I actually really love Rari’s charting 

Next they’re going to say they have a spreadsheet like in TVTropes


----------



## Tofu

I have no idea and don't think I will by the time the day ends, so I *abstain*.


----------



## qenya

Oh god I forgot EoD was at 7pm now. *headless chicken flailing*



myuma said:


> I try to give reads but in all honesty I don’t think I’m good at it, so I don’t want to depend on them when it comes to my reasoning.
> 
> I made a few posts about my thoughts on other players earlier in the game because I wanted to contribute to the conversation somehow. Mainly because I think inactive players are more likely to get lynched earlier in the game, and I think they tend to look more suspicious overall


This is pretty much my thinking too, M+7. It's not that I "don't see value" in behavioural reads, it's just a style of play that I'm not used to and don't have any practice in.

As for the vote, if the wagons are going to be myuma/Stryke then I'm going to have to go for *Stryke*, (a) because I'm still not keen on the online times thing as scumplay - I get the reasons kyeugh's outlined why it _could_ be scummy, but I still think it's more _likely_ to be well-intentioned town - and (b) because I'm kinda reluctant to lynch someone who seems to be playing similarly to me. So I guess you could consider this a vote for "not myuma".


----------



## haneko

kyeugh: That is exactly what I’m saying. What goes on the end of your trailing “which...”

(that sounds unintentionally aggressive, sorry!)


----------



## Superjolt

rari_teh said:


> Superjolt said:
> 
> 
> 
> Hey, could someone give me a lowdown on the current wagons and maybe point toward relevant posts? Also, Seshas was a wagon at one point?
> 
> Definitely won’t be caught up by eod but let’s see what I can do in the meantime
> 
> 
> 
> Seshas was a small wagon of two? people at its peak. now she only has one vote (IndigoEmmy, who parked her vote on her apparently out of spite after being told by Seshas not to abstain)
> 
> Ultracool and Stryke are almost the same thing: both posted a little, but neither actually voiced much their opinion and are walking rebuses
> Stryke came back after his wagon inflated and gave a little bit of his reads, but most of it was kinda evasive imo? though that isn’t necessarily AI
> 
> kyeugh was voted by RNP as a joke/out of spite? only RNP knows
Click to expand...

I'm trying to go back and look at the progression on the Stryke wagon, were there specific posts you thought he was being evasive?

I feel like I'm moving pretty slow just trying to look back at how the wagons formed, does anyone have any questions or specifics they want me to look at? I know the deadline approacheth but I'll try to answer stuff now and do a proper catch up during the Night, I'm just not totally sure what to be doing right now


----------



## mewtini

Superjolt said:


> does anyone have any questions or specifics they want me to look at?


pretty much stryke's posts on page 47 vs myuma (kyeugh's 1026 is a good post about myuma)


----------



## kyeugh

myuma said:


> kyeugh: That is exactly what I’m saying. What goes on the end of your trailing “which...”
> 
> (that sounds unintentionally aggressive, sorry!)


 it’s just unclear to me what point you’re making there. it seems weird to me to point at behavior as “agendaed” but not come to any conclusion beyond that. i think you could do as much about any post in the game.


----------



## Keldeo

kyeugh said:


> M Plus 7 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> kyeugh said:
> 
> 
> 
> oh yeah seshas
> i kind of wouldn’t oppose a seshas wagon? tbh? this is another case of “doesnt feel as solvey as i expect” which is maybe unfair
> 
> 
> 
> @kyeugh, do you mind expanding on the differences between Seshas here and what you expect for me? I've read around this part but it's still sort of unclear.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> it’s a bit nebulous, which is why i ultimately unvoted. mostly i remember seshas as a very active player who was questioning people and trying pretty hard to solve/sort from a pretty early point, so the fact the they’ve been a bit less engaged in this game suggested to me that maybe they’re being less forthcoming because they’re a wolf. however i’m not even sure they really were as active as i’m remembering because i didn’t bother to double check the beginning of tvt to verify, and i can buy that they’re just not as plugged into this game—they have made some posts that have the level of solviness and insight that i was expecting.
Click to expand...

This is kind of where my head is at on Seshas rn, btw. I think people may be remembering their TVTropes late game too much as the benchmark for town them.


----------



## Tangrowth

Okay, I'm here until EoD now for sure at least.


----------



## mewtini

seshas barely posted in earlygame tvt


----------



## Tangrowth

mewtini said:


> M Plus 7 said:
> 
> 
> 
> I see the suspicion surrounding Seshas as clearly culture clash. Not feeling a vote there
> 
> 
> 
> i don't think it's culture clash - i was seshas' biggest proponent in the last game we played, haha, and kyeugh and i were the only two ever on her wagon! the only person clashing with her is VM i guess. you'll probably end up finding a post of me saying this before circling back here, but she has the ability to make really sharp microreads (which she did regularly in the last game) that isn't showing up here. the thing is, in the last game she wasn't really around for the first few day phases either, and i'm going to reserve judgment because i don't actually feel bad vibes from her
> 
> 
> M Plus 7 said:
> 
> 
> 
> I'd like to hear more about how Ultracool and Stryke play normally, does anyone know?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> ultracool was town (with an ultimately super influential PR) in the last game, and he posted like a couple of joke posts and a few very "visceral" posts as rari said - where he took people's phrases or jokes a bit too literally, but in a way that read scared town. i get the sameish vibe from him here. he was SUPER lurky there as well, i'm just afraid to give him too much of a pass because of that though
> 
> stryke was kinda weird last game (was clearly keeping up with the thread but not really talking) but when pinged/asked directly he gave pretty original/out-of-the-box ideas that were hard for me to read as well. but then he ended up being town doc
Click to expand...

This is incredibly helpful, thanks mewtini.


----------



## haneko

kyeugh: Keldeo strikes me as someone to watch just because they are so aggressive, but I also think my gut instinct is something to ignore because it’s rather weak evidence

i Have to log off now for irl stuff, see you all later! Gonna miss eod :/


----------



## Tangrowth

M Plus 7 said:


> Man, that's a tough read re: Seshas. The shading is my biggest problem with it. Holding the cards close to the chest... that could go either way. otherwise I could see the case for town.


Wait, what, I'm an idiot, why did I type Seshas here? I meant Myuma. Brain fail, this is why you don't have multiple ISOs open while trying to work. Seshas read coming up momentarily, lmao.


----------



## rari_teh

mewtini said:


> maj


who?


----------



## mewtini

rari_teh said:


> who?


majority. myuma parked their vote


----------



## Keldeo

That koko vote makes the wagons 3 Struke, 3 myuma? *myuma*


----------



## Bluwiikoon

M Plus 7 said:


> Bluwiikoon said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> M Plus 7 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Bluwiikoon said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> M Plus 7 said:
> 
> 
> 
> What vibes do you have right now? Apologies if you've spoken to this already, I still haven't read most of the thread, lol.
> 
> 
> 
> No worries! ^^ I feel pretty good about kyeugh and mewtini, and I really townlean mewtini especially. Keldeo is my cop cover but I also like how he incites discussions. Pretty good feelings about you too based on tone, and Superjolt ^^
> 
> The Great Trebek Push made me  about rari, purely based on the fact that I hadn't noticed much activity from them and then the Push resulted in a lot of activity from them in a short space of time. Other than that, not sure to make of RNP and Stryke :-( RNP is allegedly Always Like That, but it seems like they're a bit unhappy about any kind of voting on D1, particularly against Stryke. Meanwhile, Stryke's reaction to their wagon is equivalent to a (shrug)
> 
> Also not sure what to think of VM due to tone atm, or any people that haven't really posted much. But hey, probably more mech stuff on d2!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Awesome, this is definitely helpful, thanks. Can you expand on the rari thoughts there? Like, how would you think that impacts your read of their alignment at all?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Sure thing! I feel like it's probably not necessarily indicative of anything right now, but I'd probably just want to keep an eye on other posts they make going forward. Others generally seem to feel ok about rari, so I don't really want to scumread them yet unless they make any other strange-feeling plays. Additionally, mewtini said that her and rari acted pretty similarly during the Trebek Incident, but I kinda skimmed mewtini's posts throughout that section due to having such a big townlean on her already ^^
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Okay, cool, this works. Thanks much!
> 
> How are you feeling about the gamestate and your vote now then? Looks like we're 1 hour out. Are there players you want me to look at with urgency? I'm still making my way through mewtini's reads list and sort of digging back for various context, but I love taking requests anyway.
Click to expand...

Butterfree's thoughts on Herbe made me question Herbe's posting a bit, but other than that, I kinda feel like everyone else has pretty much every speculation point covered. IndigoEmmy still feels a bit different to me, but she still does the same thing of following along with everyone else's wagons and not inputting too much else otherwise, which is similar to her in tvt (where she was town).

Gonna have to look at vote tallies for now to decide  Not sure how much wagons can surge with 25 minutes left


----------



## mewtini

*active votes:*
myuma (4): mewtini, rari, kyeugh, keldeo
stryke (3): herbe, myuma, kokorico
ultracool (1): seshas
kyeugh (1): rnp

seshas/ultracool 797
rnp/kyeugh 833
keldeo/ultracool 905
herbe/stryke 910
myuma/stryke 957
mewtini/myuma 979
rari/myuma 1032
kyeugh/myuma 1040
tofu/abstain 1058
kokorico/stryke 1059
keldeo/myuma 1072


----------



## Tangrowth

myuma said:


> M Plus 7 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Reading players due to meta reasons is going to be a challenge, but I welcome it.
> 
> 
> 
> myuma said:
> 
> 
> 
> I'm also avoiding giving reads because, to borrow kokorico's words, it doesn't come naturally to me. I'd prefer to wait until something like a mafia kill occurs before I start trying to deduce things for real.
> 
> On the other hand, I would prefer to get someone lynched on day 1, so I vote* Stryke*. Sorry Stryke, nothing personal. :P
> 
> 
> 
> Myuma, can you speak to this some more if you don't mind? Why would you not find value in behavioral reads? Same question for koko and VM if they want.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I try to give reads but in all honesty I don’t think I’m good at it, so I don’t want to depend on them when it comes to my reasoning.
> 
> I made a few posts about my thoughts on other players earlier in the game because I wanted to contribute to the conversation somehow. Mainly because I think inactive players are more likely to get lynched earlier in the game, and I think they tend to look more suspicious overall
Click to expand...

The underlined part here could have villagery or wolfy equity... I'm not sure how to interpret it alongside everything else. This would be an easy enough of an NAI feeling to post about I suppose.

I have faith in anyone's ability to make reads. I say try not to worry about being right or wrong. Just go with your gut. The worst case scenario is it helps us make an assessment on you only, which is still good!


----------



## qenya

mewtini said:


> sorry if me keeping votecount is annoying, i just really don't want a repeat of the ILS/otter situation from last game where i literally broke a tie without knowing it :|


incidentally - it's very helpful and not annoying in the slightest! thank you for doing what I'm too lazy to, lol


----------



## mewtini

Bluwiikoon said:


> Not sure how much wagons can surge with 25 minutes left


a lot tbh :\ what do you think of them right now?


----------



## Tangrowth

Keldeo said:


> M Plus 7 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Trebek said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> M Plus 7 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Hey Trebek, I likely won't stay for long because of sleepy reasons, but do you want to chat briefly? What are your reads? Is there anything you think I should prioritize heavily first thing in the morning to help make a vote determination?
> 
> 
> 
> havent devoted nearly enough brainpower to recent posts, but have still been mulling over the parties involved in keldeos vote on me from before.
> 
> I still have a sinking suspicion that at least one of the people involved was mafia just bc if not it feels like the whole thing would have been finished much faster. However, im not as predisposed to use this to be suspicious of rari/mewt as i was at about this time yesterday, mewt especially since i still have very good vibes about her concerning copcover. i am currently rereading recent posts for like the 7th time, just bc i am horrible at information retention, but i think im most likely going to put my reads on the back burner for now and see where the other trains go (as i mentioned earlier, i am hesitant to made reads that go too deep until more mech things happen, just bc that is definitely where my strength lies, as opposed to the very social aspect of D1)
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> While I appreciated this response, looking back at it, I'm unsure how much I like it.
> 
> @Keldeo, when you return, can you talk to me about Trebek?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I posted about this a little last night, but I liked his reaction to my vote a lot in real-time and I enjoyed the fact that he kept giving thoughts afterward instead of retreating into just continuing to post about being self-conscious or something. Not a vote I’m considering at least for today.
> 
> This post could be like, setting up ~shade at Rari and Mewtini without committing but maybe he’d commit more as mafia? I don’t really know.
Click to expand...

Yeah, the shade was what I was worried about, especially since I'm town reading Rari and Mew, but I'm okay with giving Trebek another day based on the perception of the reaction testing.


----------



## rari_teh

M Plus 7 said:


> I have faith in anyone's ability to make reads. I say try not to worry about being right or wrong. Just go with your gut. The worst case scenario is it helps us make an assessment on you only, which is still good!


preach


----------



## Tangrowth

myuma said:


> So yeah basically I’m trying not to look too inactive :|


This feels a bit over-explainy in a wolfy way to me, like... I think what was said previously to it was OK, but this reads anxiously but not in a way that has to do with solving the game, if that makes sense?


----------



## kyeugh

perhaps we should lynch odie_pie


----------



## Keldeo

I think... my myuma read is largely gut and I see what people are saying about it seems like their posts could come from town, but I just read their posts and feel as though they’ve been saying things without those things meaning anything, or they’re so quick to backtrack when met with opposition that that basically is true

I also kind of liked Stryke’s pop-in about me in the same way that I liked his sort of against-the-grain posting about, say, VM in TVTropes. It feels more genuine.

Also Mr. Ultracool‘s pop-in mentioned a bunch of stuff that’s kind of orthogonal but makes me think his head is in the same space as it was in TVTropes.

I kind of want to wagon someone who’s present and reacting actually but... idk who lol


----------



## Stryke

rari_teh said:


> so yeah, maybe you should also ask someone else about Stryke’s playstyle lol


Not even Stryke knows Strykes playstyle.


----------



## Stryke

Keldeo said:


> Quickly reading up since my last post and then I am here to do Deadline Things!
> 
> 
> Stryke said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> mewtini said:
> 
> 
> 
> do you feel that way now, or are you saying you felt that way as you read it? (i.e. did you read/vibe with his explanation?)
> 
> is there anyone else you have thoughts about?
> 
> 
> 
> I skimmed his explanation, and it just felt very weird to drop a lynch vote out of nowhere with no immediate rationale as to why, or even an implied rationale (like kyeugh just kinda dropped a lunch vote on me out of nowhere, but I feel like you could tell it was so she could get more information out of me and get me to post more), and then have it revealed as just kind of like a test for Trebek, to get into his head. Most of me just wants to chalk it up to the fact that Keldeo is like 3 parallel universe ahead of me and seems to know what he's doing here, but there's a part of me that just can't shake that it feels a bit off. And yeah, I know he said he's trying a new playstyle, but that kinda seems like a convenient enough excuse. As for everyone else, no thoughts really. That thing with Keldeo is the only thing that jumped out at me at first glance
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> lol, FTR the reason I dropped the vote and didn’t explain for awhile was (1) because the whole point was to see his explanation and (2) because I went to go eat dinner
Click to expand...

Ok, that makes sense. Sorry for the shade earlier


----------



## Tangrowth

kokorico said:


> Oh god I forgot EoD was at 7pm now. *headless chicken flailing*
> 
> 
> 
> myuma said:
> 
> 
> 
> I try to give reads but in all honesty I don’t think I’m good at it, so I don’t want to depend on them when it comes to my reasoning.
> 
> I made a few posts about my thoughts on other players earlier in the game because I wanted to contribute to the conversation somehow. Mainly because I think inactive players are more likely to get lynched earlier in the game, and I think they tend to look more suspicious overall
> 
> 
> 
> This is pretty much my thinking too, M+7. It's not that I "don't see value" in behavioural reads, it's just a style of play that I'm not used to and don't have any practice in.
> 
> As for the vote, if the wagons are going to be myuma/Stryke then I'm going to have to go for *Stryke*, (a) because I'm still not keen on the online times thing as scumplay - I get the reasons kyeugh's outlined why it _could_ be scummy, but I still think it's more _likely_ to be well-intentioned town - and (b) because I'm kinda reluctant to lynch someone who seems to be playing similarly to me. So I guess you could consider this a vote for "not myuma".
Click to expand...

That's okay, I understand. I'll be the same way when I have to make mechanical reads like the mechanical dope that I am. But this is a team game, so I support all of you trying out reads at your pace. 

Why do you think it's more likely to be well-intentioned?


----------



## Trebek

Ok so i just woke up and forgot EoD was happening so i am now frantically trying to catch up on everything, should be able to before the day ends so that i can Contribute


----------



## mewtini

Keldeo said:


> I also kind of liked Stryke’s pop-in about me in the same way that I liked his sort of against-the-grain posting about, say, VM in TVTropes. It feels more genuine.


i thought this but didn't love that he kind of clearly didn't bother reading/understanding the play you made even after it had been explained out by a few people, i think his tvtropes posts were less pure-shade feeling

won't be mad if we lynch either one over the other as of now


----------



## Tangrowth

Keldeo said:


> kyeugh said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> M Plus 7 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> kyeugh said:
> 
> 
> 
> oh yeah seshas
> i kind of wouldn’t oppose a seshas wagon? tbh? this is another case of “doesnt feel as solvey as i expect” which is maybe unfair
> 
> 
> 
> @kyeugh, do you mind expanding on the differences between Seshas here and what you expect for me? I've read around this part but it's still sort of unclear.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> it’s a bit nebulous, which is why i ultimately unvoted. mostly i remember seshas as a very active player who was questioning people and trying pretty hard to solve/sort from a pretty early point, so the fact the they’ve been a bit less engaged in this game suggested to me that maybe they’re being less forthcoming because they’re a wolf. however i’m not even sure they really were as active as i’m remembering because i didn’t bother to double check the beginning of tvt to verify, and i can buy that they’re just not as plugged into this game—they have made some posts that have the level of solviness and insight that i was expecting.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> This is kind of where my head is at on Seshas rn, btw. I think people may be remembering their TVTropes late game too much as the benchmark for town them.
Click to expand...

Good to know, thanks both of you.


----------



## kyeugh

i  am going to play civ so my responses might be slow.  i kind of don't think i'm going to change my vote anyway though


----------



## Stryke

Why is there a wagon against myuma again? Not meant to be critical, just curious


----------



## mewtini

Trebek said:


> Ok so i just woke up and forgot EoD was happening so i am now frantically trying to catch up on everything, should be able to before the day ends so that i can Contribute


go back over the last few pages, there's some recapping/people (Me!) pointing to posts relevant to vote wagons right now


----------



## Bluwiikoon

mewtini said:


> Bluwiikoon said:
> 
> 
> 
> Not sure how much wagons can surge with 25 minutes left
> 
> 
> 
> a lot tbh :\ what do you think of them right now?
Click to expand...

Tbh I feel a little bad for myuma because they mentioned being a rather new player, but at the same time it'll suck if they are wolf and we let them get by on uhhhh pity? For now I feel better about some kind of lynch rather than no lynch at all :-(

Tempted to even out the votes so it's decided by dice roll, since there's still not a whole lot to go on other than just chance. But we'll see!


----------



## Tangrowth

myuma said:


> kyeugh: Keldeo strikes me as someone to watch just because they are so aggressive, but I also think my gut instinct is something to ignore because it’s rather weak evidence
> 
> i Have to log off now for irl stuff, see you all later! Gonna miss eod :/


Oof, this isn't ideal, I was hoping to interact more.


----------



## mewtini

strykeposting feels slightly more neutral versus myuma who i could choose to read as pretty wolfy or as uncertain-town


----------



## Keldeo

I also kind of don’t want to wagon someone who’s not here to claim... mrgle.


----------



## kyeugh

Stryke said:


> Why is there a wagon against myuma again? Not meant to be critical, just curious


basically this i think:




__





						Cats (2019) Mafia
					

Can you elaborate? It's possible I'm missing something.  i started the wagon on seshas and it was because i thought their play felt different/less engaged from the previous game we played in




					forums.dragonflycave.com


----------



## Tangrowth

Keldeo said:


> I think... my myuma read is largely gut and I see what people are saying about it seems like their posts could come from town, but I just read their posts and feel as though they’ve been saying things without those things meaning anything, or they’re so quick to backtrack when met with opposition that that basically is true
> 
> I also kind of liked Stryke’s pop-in about me in the same way that I liked his sort of against-the-grain posting about, say, VM in TVTropes. It feels more genuine.
> 
> Also Mr. Ultracool‘s pop-in mentioned a bunch of stuff that’s kind of orthogonal but makes me think his head is in the same space as it was in TVTropes.
> 
> I kind of want to wagon someone who’s present and reacting actually but... idk who lol


Mindmeld.


----------



## Superjolt

mewtini said:


> Superjolt said:
> 
> 
> 
> does anyone have any questions or specifics they want me to look at?
> 
> 
> 
> pretty much stryke's posts on page 47 vs myuma (kyeugh's 1026 is a good post about myuma)
Click to expand...

I'll take a look, are you referring to just Stryke's #922 though, or was there more from him worth a look?


----------



## mewtini

Keldeo said:


> I also kind of don’t want to wagon someone who’s not here to claim... mrgle.


i feel this but what would we pivot to ://///


----------



## Keldeo

Have liked MP7’s sort of cautionless EOD posting here, by the way.

tfw most everyone here is not someone I want to wagon though.


----------



## Tangrowth

Bluwiikoon said:


> mewtini said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Bluwiikoon said:
> 
> 
> 
> Not sure how much wagons can surge with 25 minutes left
> 
> 
> 
> a lot tbh :\ what do you think of them right now?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Tbh I feel a little bad for myuma because they mentioned being a rather new player, but at the same time it'll suck if they are wolf and we let them get by on uhhhh pity? For now I feel better about some kind of lynch rather than no lynch at all :-(
> 
> Tempted to even out the votes so it's decided by dice roll, since there's still not a whole lot to go on other than just chance. But we'll see!
Click to expand...

LET IT RAND

Seriously, not sure if we want to do that or not, but it's always fun.


----------



## Tangrowth

Keldeo said:


> I also kind of don’t want to wagon someone who’s not here to claim... mrgle.


Oh crap, I would never have even thought of that. Ugh. Hmmm. Are there any other players in your POE that you would consider?


----------



## Keldeo

@Superjolt I’d really appreciate hearing your quick takes on myuma and Stryke’s posting even in isolation of other factors


----------



## kyeugh

Keldeo said:


> I also kind of don’t want to wagon someone who’s not here to claim... mrgle.


i kind of think they would've done it before leaving if they were interested in doing so, right?


----------



## Tangrowth

Let me try to get a reads list up real fast, it'll be incomplete but it's something.


----------



## mewtini

Superjolt said:


> I'll take a look, are you referring to just Stryke's #922 though, or was there more from him worth a look?


oh sorry, basically his 922 and 958/962/a bit onwards. there's a light interaction and i talk about him a little in 965


----------



## Tangrowth

kyeugh said:


> Keldeo said:
> 
> 
> 
> I also kind of don’t want to wagon someone who’s not here to claim... mrgle.
> 
> 
> 
> i kind of think they would've done it before leaving if they were interested in doing so, right?
Click to expand...

Oh, that's a good point. If I were under that sort of pressure I would have thought to claim naturally I think.


----------



## Stryke

kyeugh said:


> Stryke said:
> 
> 
> 
> Why is there a wagon against myuma again? Not meant to be critical, just curious
> 
> 
> 
> basically this i think:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Cats (2019) Mafia
> 
> 
> Can you elaborate? It's possible I'm missing something.  i started the wagon on seshas and it was because i thought their play felt different/less engaged from the previous game we played in
> 
> 
> 
> 
> forums.dragonflycave.com
Click to expand...

Damn I see what you mean. I can completely see this from a new player like them, but it's like just off enough to introduce doubt :(


----------



## Keldeo

M Plus 7 said:


> Keldeo said:
> 
> 
> 
> I also kind of don’t want to wagon someone who’s not here to claim... mrgle.
> 
> 
> 
> Oh crap, I would never have even thought of that. Ugh. Hmmm. Are there any other players in your POE that you would consider?
Click to expand...

I mean... they kind of all run into the same problem of them not being here

Except for superjolt I guess but he’s clearly not current and that feels bad as a reaction mechanism as well


----------



## mewtini

kyeugh said:


> i kind of think they would've done it before leaving if they were interested in doing so, right?


maybe, or possibly newbie player just giving up ... ?


----------



## Bluwiikoon

I think after reading everyone's points I have stronger feelings about lynching *myuma* than Stryke, so I'll just park a vote there for now unless anything else comes to light.  Sorry myuma, it's gotta be someone ;o;


----------



## Stryke

Since I am dangerously close to being lynched atm, is there anything else you guys wanna ask me before you potentially lose your chance to?


----------



## mewtini

*active votes:*
myuma (5): mewtini, rari, kyeugh, keldeo, bluwiikoon
stryke (3): herbe, myuma, kokorico
ultracool (1): seshas
kyeugh (1): rnp

seshas/ultracool 797
rnp/kyeugh 833
keldeo/ultracool 905
herbe/stryke 910
myuma/stryke 957
mewtini/myuma 979
rari/myuma 1032
kyeugh/myuma 1040
tofu/abstain 1058
kokorico/stryke 1059
keldeo/myuma 1072
blu/myuma 1111


----------



## qenya

M Plus 7 said:


> Why do you think it's more likely to be well-intentioned?


In order for it to be a mafia tactic, most or all of the people she FoSed have to be mafia, and it must be the case either that it wasn't run past scumchat first or that none of them felt strongly about the etiquette. Like kyeugh said earlier, all of these things are individually possible, and not even unlikely, but altogether it just seems like too many chained conditions compared to myuma just being relatively inexperienced and contributing the first thing that came to mind.


----------



## Keldeo

Trying not to confirmation bias myself too much, so I’m gonna devils advocate the claiming/not claiming as maybe they’re not used to or don’t know they should be doing that

Like, I mentioned it in my first post but definitely didn’t press it as much as I did in TVT


----------



## qenya

kokorico said:


> most or all of the people she FoSed have to be mafia


er, have to be *non-mafia


----------



## mewtini

Stryke said:


> Since I am dangerously close to being lynched atm, is there anything else you guys wanna ask me before you potentially lose your chance to?


if you could choose to lynch someone right now who would it be?
there's a possibility (waiting on how the next like, 2 minutes go) that you don't have to claim but i guess i'd ask for that if it became more certain you're about to get killed :(


----------



## Tangrowth

*Super quick MP7 feels-based reads list*

Moderate town_:_
Keldeo _ (not engaging tinfoil at this time)_
kyeugh
mew
rari

Slight town:
Blu
Superjolt
Ultracool

Players are alphabetical within groups. I think that's it at the moment? Everyone else is in my POE by default or simply ??? because I have no read yet. I looked at Seshas quickly and couldn't make any real determination, despite liking their reasoning for why lynches are good and no lynching is bad.


----------



## Tangrowth

Stryke said:


> Since I am dangerously close to being lynched atm, is there anything else you guys wanna ask me before you potentially lose your chance to?


Any legacy reads or thoughts you have would be appreciated for sure.


----------



## Keldeo

Hm hm hm

I see what Mewtini is saying about *Stryke* kinda...

Also if he votes to self preserve, myuma is still in the lead


----------



## Stryke

mewtini said:


> Stryke said:
> 
> 
> 
> Since I am dangerously close to being lynched atm, is there anything else you guys wanna ask me before you potentially lose your chance to?
> 
> 
> 
> if you could choose to lynch someone right now who would it be?
> there's a possibility (waiting on how the next like, 2 minutes go) that you don't have to claim but i guess i'd ask for that if it became more certain you're about to get killed :(
Click to expand...

I don't even know man. I don't really want to say myuma because I can remember myself as a new player and all the mistakes I made, but that might be clouding my judgement. Sorry to ask a question in response, but what was the seshas wagon about?


----------



## mewtini

Keldeo said:


> I see what Mewtini is saying about *Stryke* kinda...


can you explain rq? i kinda meant it as a reason that i was staying on myuma for now


----------



## Tangrowth

kokorico said:


> M Plus 7 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Why do you think it's more likely to be well-intentioned?
> 
> 
> 
> In order for it to be a mafia tactic, most or all of the people she FoSed have to be mafia, and it must be the case either that it wasn't run past scumchat first or that none of them felt strongly about the etiquette. Like kyeugh said earlier, all of these things are individually possible, and not even unlikely, but altogether it just seems like too many chained conditions compared to myuma just being relatively inexperienced and contributing the first thing that came to mind.
Click to expand...

Hmmm... I don't think those assumptions have to be true. I appreciate this response though.


----------



## Trebek

Ok so i am still deciding where i want to park my vote but i just want to quickly respond to something that i might have worded poorly beforehand: 


M Plus 7 said:


> Keldeo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> M Plus 7 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Trebek said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> M Plus 7 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Hey Trebek, I likely won't stay for long because of sleepy reasons, but do you want to chat briefly? What are your reads? Is there anything you think I should prioritize heavily first thing in the morning to help make a vote determination?
> 
> 
> 
> havent devoted nearly enough brainpower to recent posts, but have still been mulling over the parties involved in keldeos vote on me from before.
> 
> I still have a sinking suspicion that at least one of the people involved was mafia just bc if not it feels like the whole thing would have been finished much faster. However, im not as predisposed to use this to be suspicious of rari/mewt as i was at about this time yesterday, mewt especially since i still have very good vibes about her concerning copcover. i am currently rereading recent posts for like the 7th time, just bc i am horrible at information retention, but i think im most likely going to put my reads on the back burner for now and see where the other trains go (as i mentioned earlier, i am hesitant to made reads that go too deep until more mech things happen, just bc that is definitely where my strength lies, as opposed to the very social aspect of D1)
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> While I appreciated this response, looking back at it, I'm unsure how much I like it.
> 
> @Keldeo, when you return, can you talk to me about Trebek?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I posted about this a little last night, but I liked his reaction to my vote a lot in real-time and I enjoyed the fact that he kept giving thoughts afterward instead of retreating into just continuing to post about being self-conscious or something. Not a vote I’m considering at least for today.
> 
> This post could be like, setting up ~shade at Rari and Mewtini without committing but maybe he’d commit more as mafia? I don’t really know.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Yeah, the shade was what I was worried about, especially since I'm town reading Rari and Mew, but I'm okay with giving Trebek another day based on the perception of the reaction testing.
Click to expand...

The point of the original post here was to _redact_ the shade i initially had for rari/mewt, not to introduce more.


----------



## mewtini

Stryke said:


> Sorry to ask a question in response, but what was the seshas wagon about?


pretty insignificant imo, i think it was people comparing her earlygame play here to her intense plays in the end of tvtropes (but i think its a false comparison looking back)


----------



## Keldeo

Man idk if I should just trust my gut or do the (booming voice) Correct Mechanical Play of allowing the lynchee to claim

Kermitflailing.gif


----------



## Tangrowth

Trebek said:


> Ok so i am still deciding where i want to park my vote but i just want to quickly respond to something that i might have worded poorly beforehand:
> 
> 
> M Plus 7 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Keldeo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> M Plus 7 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Trebek said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> M Plus 7 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Hey Trebek, I likely won't stay for long because of sleepy reasons, but do you want to chat briefly? What are your reads? Is there anything you think I should prioritize heavily first thing in the morning to help make a vote determination?
> 
> 
> 
> havent devoted nearly enough brainpower to recent posts, but have still been mulling over the parties involved in keldeos vote on me from before.
> 
> I still have a sinking suspicion that at least one of the people involved was mafia just bc if not it feels like the whole thing would have been finished much faster. However, im not as predisposed to use this to be suspicious of rari/mewt as i was at about this time yesterday, mewt especially since i still have very good vibes about her concerning copcover. i am currently rereading recent posts for like the 7th time, just bc i am horrible at information retention, but i think im most likely going to put my reads on the back burner for now and see where the other trains go (as i mentioned earlier, i am hesitant to made reads that go too deep until more mech things happen, just bc that is definitely where my strength lies, as opposed to the very social aspect of D1)
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> While I appreciated this response, looking back at it, I'm unsure how much I like it.
> 
> @Keldeo, when you return, can you talk to me about Trebek?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I posted about this a little last night, but I liked his reaction to my vote a lot in real-time and I enjoyed the fact that he kept giving thoughts afterward instead of retreating into just continuing to post about being self-conscious or something. Not a vote I’m considering at least for today.
> 
> This post could be like, setting up ~shade at Rari and Mewtini without committing but maybe he’d commit more as mafia? I don’t really know.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Yeah, the shade was what I was worried about, especially since I'm town reading Rari and Mew, but I'm okay with giving Trebek another day based on the perception of the reaction testing.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The point of the original post here was to _redact_ the shade i initially had for rari/mewt, not to introduce more.
Click to expand...

My bad, I clearly need to re-read with context then, thanks for the correction.


----------



## Keldeo

Stryke, yeah, any quick thoughts besides ones you’ve already posted would be grand.


----------



## Tangrowth

What's the current tally?


----------



## mewtini

mewtini said:


> *active votes:*
> myuma (4): mewtini, rari, kyeugh, bluwiikoon
> stryke (4): herbe, myuma, kokorico, keldeo
> ultracool (1): seshas
> kyeugh (1): rnp
> 
> seshas/ultracool 797
> rnp/kyeugh 833
> herbe/stryke 910
> myuma/stryke 957
> mewtini/myuma 979
> rari/myuma 1032
> kyeugh/myuma 1040
> tofu/abstain 1058
> kokorico/stryke 1059
> blu/myuma 1111
> keldeo/stryke 1120


----------



## Trebek

M Plus 7 said:


> Trebek said:
> 
> 
> 
> Ok so i am still deciding where i want to park my vote but i just want to quickly respond to something that i might have worded poorly beforehand:
> 
> 
> M Plus 7 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Keldeo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> M Plus 7 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Trebek said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> M Plus 7 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Hey Trebek, I likely won't stay for long because of sleepy reasons, but do you want to chat briefly? What are your reads? Is there anything you think I should prioritize heavily first thing in the morning to help make a vote determination?
> 
> 
> 
> havent devoted nearly enough brainpower to recent posts, but have still been mulling over the parties involved in keldeos vote on me from before.
> 
> I still have a sinking suspicion that at least one of the people involved was mafia just bc if not it feels like the whole thing would have been finished much faster. However, im not as predisposed to use this to be suspicious of rari/mewt as i was at about this time yesterday, mewt especially since i still have very good vibes about her concerning copcover. i am currently rereading recent posts for like the 7th time, just bc i am horrible at information retention, but i think im most likely going to put my reads on the back burner for now and see where the other trains go (as i mentioned earlier, i am hesitant to made reads that go too deep until more mech things happen, just bc that is definitely where my strength lies, as opposed to the very social aspect of D1)
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> While I appreciated this response, looking back at it, I'm unsure how much I like it.
> 
> @Keldeo, when you return, can you talk to me about Trebek?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I posted about this a little last night, but I liked his reaction to my vote a lot in real-time and I enjoyed the fact that he kept giving thoughts afterward instead of retreating into just continuing to post about being self-conscious or something. Not a vote I’m considering at least for today.
> 
> This post could be like, setting up ~shade at Rari and Mewtini without committing but maybe he’d commit more as mafia? I don’t really know.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Yeah, the shade was what I was worried about, especially since I'm town reading Rari and Mew, but I'm okay with giving Trebek another day based on the perception of the reaction testing.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The point of the original post here was to _redact_ the shade i initially had for rari/mewt, not to introduce more.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> My bad, I clearly need to re-read with context then, thanks for the correction.
Click to expand...

no problem! i have a horrible habit of making very easy-to-misinterpret posts right before going to sleep, i really should stop doing that


----------



## rari_teh

enough science
*@Stryke *
you have seven minutes to roleclaim


----------



## mewtini

@Stryke claim pls?


----------



## Stryke

Keldeo said:


> Stryke, yeah, any quick thoughts besides ones you’ve already posted would be grand.


Uhhhh I guess I thought IndigoEmmy was acting a bit strange? Like different than she was in tvt. I don't think it's worth pursuing this late into the game though because I don't want to introduce more confusion and it could easily be chalked up to having the experience of what mafias like now


----------



## Bluwiikoon

EoD going so fast nobody will see that I'm Bob


----------



## Tangrowth

Thanks, mew. Looks like these are going to be the counterwagons then. My gut wants to vote myuma, but I'm not townreading Stryke either and POE is a thing... but it feels even weirder I guess because I haven't been reading the whole thread and I at least got to interact with myuma a bit?


----------



## Tangrowth

Trebek said:


> M Plus 7 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Trebek said:
> 
> 
> 
> Ok so i am still deciding where i want to park my vote but i just want to quickly respond to something that i might have worded poorly beforehand:
> 
> 
> M Plus 7 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Keldeo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> M Plus 7 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Trebek said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> M Plus 7 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Hey Trebek, I likely won't stay for long because of sleepy reasons, but do you want to chat briefly? What are your reads? Is there anything you think I should prioritize heavily first thing in the morning to help make a vote determination?
> 
> 
> 
> havent devoted nearly enough brainpower to recent posts, but have still been mulling over the parties involved in keldeos vote on me from before.
> 
> I still have a sinking suspicion that at least one of the people involved was mafia just bc if not it feels like the whole thing would have been finished much faster. However, im not as predisposed to use this to be suspicious of rari/mewt as i was at about this time yesterday, mewt especially since i still have very good vibes about her concerning copcover. i am currently rereading recent posts for like the 7th time, just bc i am horrible at information retention, but i think im most likely going to put my reads on the back burner for now and see where the other trains go (as i mentioned earlier, i am hesitant to made reads that go too deep until more mech things happen, just bc that is definitely where my strength lies, as opposed to the very social aspect of D1)
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> While I appreciated this response, looking back at it, I'm unsure how much I like it.
> 
> @Keldeo, when you return, can you talk to me about Trebek?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I posted about this a little last night, but I liked his reaction to my vote a lot in real-time and I enjoyed the fact that he kept giving thoughts afterward instead of retreating into just continuing to post about being self-conscious or something. Not a vote I’m considering at least for today.
> 
> This post could be like, setting up ~shade at Rari and Mewtini without committing but maybe he’d commit more as mafia? I don’t really know.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Yeah, the shade was what I was worried about, especially since I'm town reading Rari and Mew, but I'm okay with giving Trebek another day based on the perception of the reaction testing.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The point of the original post here was to _redact_ the shade i initially had for rari/mewt, not to introduce more.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> My bad, I clearly need to re-read with context then, thanks for the correction.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> no problem! i have a horrible habit of making very easy-to-misinterpret posts right before going to sleep, i really should stop doing that
Click to expand...

I can relate to that, lmao.


----------



## rari_teh

rari_teh said:


> enough science
> *@Stryke *
> you have seven minutes to roleclaim


if the coloring of the ping makes it hard to see, this was a vote btw


----------



## mewtini

*active votes:*
stryke (5): herbe, myuma, kokorico, keldeo, rari
myuma (3): mewtini, kyeugh, bluwiikoon
ultracool (1): seshas
kyeugh (1): rnp

seshas/ultracool 797
rnp/kyeugh 833
herbe/stryke 910
myuma/stryke 957
mewtini/myuma 979
rari/myuma 1032
kyeugh/myuma 1040
tofu/abstain 1058
kokorico/stryke 1059
blu/myuma 1111
keldeo/stryke 1120
rari/stryke 1132


----------



## Tangrowth

I'll vote *myuma*.


----------



## Keldeo

You know what, my gut is never wrong. Except when it is.

*myuma*


----------



## Butterfree

Wait what I just got to a point in the thread saying EoD is at 7 (in five minutes) and not 7:30 like I thought.


----------



## Trebek

I am going to go with *myuma* for now, but would love to see a claim from stryke


----------



## Tangrowth

Butterfree said:


> Wait what I just got to a point in the thread saying EoD is at 7 (in five minutes) and not 7:30 like I thought.


That is correct, we're almost there.


----------



## mewtini

*active votes:*
stryke (4): herbe, myuma, kokorico, rari
myuma (5): mewtini, kyeugh, bluwiikoon, m+7, keldeo
ultracool (1): seshas
kyeugh (1): rnp

seshas/ultracool 797
rnp/kyeugh 833
herbe/stryke 910
myuma/stryke 957
mewtini/myuma 979
rari/myuma 1032
kyeugh/myuma 1040
tofu/abstain 1058
kokorico/stryke 1059
blu/myuma 1111
keldeo/stryke 1120
rari/stryke 1132
m+7/myuma 1140
keldeo/myuma 1141


----------



## Keldeo

... ...idk if I should be no longer vibing based on that.

my instinct is to accept the mind meld, though.


----------



## Butterfree

UGH I haven't even read the last several pages buuuuut where I had read up to I could nod along with kyeugh's case on *myuma*


----------



## Tangrowth

Keldeo said:


> ... ...idk if I should be no longer vibing based on that.
> 
> my instinct is to accept the mind meld, though.


Yeah, I'm a bit nervous about the consensus myself, but I feel good about the reasoning. I don't have anything else I feel personally invested in.


----------



## Stryke

Vanilla townie lmao. It's why I'm a tad bit more ho-hum about being lynched, bc it won't put town at as serious of a disadvantage as if I actually had a role


----------



## Butterfree

I'm sorry I was going to be caught up and read myuma's posts but then sudden deadline not being where I think for my second mafia game in a row >:/


----------



## Keldeo

Stryke not claiming is also like 

mrr



Butterfree said:


> Wait what I just got to a point in the thread saying EoD is at 7 (in five minutes) and not 7:30 like I thought.


Do you have quick thoughts on Stryke or myuma in the uh 2 minutes remaining?


----------



## mewtini

*active votes:*
stryke (4): herbe, myuma, kokorico, rari
myuma (7): mewtini, kyeugh, bluwiikoon, m+7, keldeo, trebek, bfree
ultracool (1): seshas
kyeugh (1): rnp

seshas/ultracool 797
rnp/kyeugh 833
herbe/stryke 910
myuma/stryke 957
mewtini/myuma 979
rari/myuma 1032
kyeugh/myuma 1040
tofu/abstain 1058
kokorico/stryke 1059
blu/myuma 1111
rari/stryke 1132
m+7/myuma 1140
keldeo/myuma 1141
trebek/myuma 1143
bfree/myuma 1147


----------



## Keldeo

Oh there it is


----------



## Bluwiikoon

I just wanna say it's been one heck of a Day and that I'm really happy I get to play my first mafia game in ~12 years with y'all :D Thanks for making it so fun!


----------



## Keldeo

Um I kind of think the higher expected value play is to vote *Stryke*

Idk aaaa


----------



## Vipera Magnifica

I JUST REMEMBERED SOMETHING IMPORTANT


----------



## mewtini

fingers crossed!!


----------



## Stryke

Hasta la Vista, babies, till next time


----------



## Tangrowth

Well, I guess do we lynch Stryke then? Someone will have to help me with the more mechanically correct move here. I can switch.


----------



## rari_teh

Stryke said:


> Vanilla townie lmao. It's why I'm a tad bit more ho-hum about being lynched, bc it won't put town at as serious of a disadvantage as if I actually had a role


too easy a cop out
I’m parking my vote
goodnight, fellows


----------



## Keldeo

glgl


----------



## mewtini

ugh
*stryke*


----------



## Tangrowth

*Stryke*


----------



## mewtini

dont like the VT claim
@Stryke cat name?


----------



## Tangrowth

Bluwiikoon said:


> I just wanna say it's been one heck of a Day and that I'm really happy I get to play my first mafia game in ~12 years with y'all :D Thanks for making it so fun!


Likewise, except first game on this site. I hope to have more time next phase and really get to know you all better!


----------



## Stryke

Glad u can play for longer, @myuma


----------



## JackPK

*The day phase is now over. 

Vote totals in a moment.*


----------



## Butterfree

Agh I am so sorry. I am triple-checking every EoD time in every mafia game I ever play ever again


----------



## kyeugh

haha no one can stop me from posting


----------



## Vipera Magnifica

THE KRABBY PATTY SECRET FORMULA IS


----------



## Keldeo

Vipera Magnifica said:


> THE KRABBY PATTY SECRET FORMULA IS


Everyone stop Killing Him Mid Sentence


----------



## JackPK

*Active votes*
Seshas votes Mr. Ultracool (#797)
RedneckPhoenix votes kyeugh (#833)
Herbe votes Stryke (#910)
myuma votes Stryke (#957)
kyeugh votes myuma (#1040)
Tofu votes abstain (#1058)
kokorico votes Stryke (#1059)
Bluwiikoon votes myuma (#1111)
rari_teh votes Stryke (#1132)
Trebek votes myuma (#1143)
Butterfree votes myuma (#1147)
Keldeo votes Stryke (#1155)
mewtini votes Stryke (#1162)
M Plus 7 votes Stryke (#1163)



Spoiler: Full vote history



Active votes bolded. Invalid votes stricken through.

kyeugh votes kyeugh (#162)
kyeugh unvotes (#166)
Keldeo votes Trebek (#509)
Vipera Magnifica votes Mawile (#516)
Keldeo unvotes (#589)
Keldeo votes myuma (#710)
kyeugh votes Seshas (#760)
mewtini votes Seshas (#766)
Vipera Magnifica votes Eifie (#781)
*Seshas votes Mr. Ultracool (#797)*
Vipera Magnifica votes abstain (#800)
IndigoEmmy votes abstain (#801)
IndigoEmmy votes abstain (#803)
IndigoEmmy votes Seshas (#805)
Vipera Magnifica votes IndigoEmmy (#819)
*RedneckPhoenix votes kyeugh (#833)*
Keldeo unvotes (#883)
Vipera Magnifica unvotes (#892)
mewtini votes Mr. Ultracool (#893)
Keldeo votes Mr. Ultracool (#905)
kyeugh votes Stryke (#907)
rari_teh votes Stryke (#909)
*Herbe votes Stryke (#910)*
mewtini votes Vipera Magnifica (#950)
*myuma votes Stryke (#957)*
mewtini votes Stryke (#965)
mewtini votes myuma (#979)
IndigoEmmy unvotes (#997)
rari_teh votes myuma (#1032)
*kyeugh votes myuma (#1040)
Tofu votes abstain (#1058)
kokorico votes Stryke (#1059)*
Keldeo votes myuma (#1072)
*Bluwiikoon votes myuma (#1111)*
Keldeo votes Stryke (#1120)
*rari_teh votes Stryke (#1132)*
M Plus 7 votes myuma (#1140)
Keldeo votes myuma (#1141)
*Trebek votes myuma (#1143)
Butterfree votes myuma (#1147)
Keldeo votes Stryke (#1155)
mewtini votes Stryke (#1162)
M Plus 7 votes Stryke (#1163)*



*Vote totals*
Stryke (7) (Herbe, myuma, kokorico, rari_teh, Keldeo, mewtini, M Plus 7)
myuma (4) (kyeugh, Bluwiikoon, Trebek, Butterfree)
Mr. Ultracool (1) (Seshas)
kyeugh (1) (RedneckPhoenix)
abstain (1) (Tofu)

If any votes are wrong or missing, you have *10 minutes* to alert me to them.


----------



## JackPK

The Jellicle cats spend the day debating which of their number might secretly be a villain. Fingers are pointed back and forth in speculation, but none carry the weight of enough evidence to secure a consensus. At the last moment before sunset, the vote flips rapidly back and forth between two cats and finally settles against *Stryke*, and the cats circle up and take him down to — you didn’t really think I was going to kill off cats in the flavor text, did you? — the Jellicle time-out basement, where he will be locked up until this whole business is resolved.

*Stryke is dead. He was not scum.*

*Night One has begun. Please submit your night actions.

Day Two will begin June 4 at 3pm EST/7pm UTC.*



Spoiler: Pings and flips



@Butterfree
@Mawile - killed N0, *not scum*
@Keldeo
@Herbe
@kyeugh
@mewtini
@Seshas
@IndigoEmmy
@kokorico
@I liek Squirtles
@Trebek
@rari_teh
@myuma
@M Plus 7
@Tofu
@Bluwiikoon
@Stryke - lynched D1, *not scum*
@Vipera Magnifica
@RedneckPhoenix
@Superjolt
@Mr. Ultracool





Spoiler: Game summary so far



*N0
Mawile* was killed. He was *not scum*.

*D1
Stryke* was lynched. He was *not scum*.


----------



## Herbe

us


----------



## JackPK

When the day breaks, the Jellicle cats find that now two of their number are missing. One turns up in the time-out basement, where they are left (after all, they must be there for a reason); meanwhile, the cats can find no trace of the other, save a tattered collar out on the cobblestone street.

*Seshas is dead. They were not scum.
myuma is dead. She was not scum.*

*Day Two has begun. You may now post and discuss who to lynch today. Abstaining (no lynching) is allowed. Night Two will begin June 7 at 3pm EST/7pm UTC.*



Spoiler: Pings and flips



@Butterfree
@Mawile - killed N0, *not scum*
@Keldeo
@Herbe
@kyeugh
@mewtini
@Seshas - killed N1, *not scum*
@IndigoEmmy
@kokorico
@I liek Squirtles
@Trebek
@rari_teh
@myuma - killed N1, *not scum*
@M Plus 7
@Tofu
@Bluwiikoon
@Stryke - lynched D1, *not scum*
@Vipera Magnifica
@RedneckPhoenix
@Superjolt
@Mr. Ultracool





Spoiler: Game summary so far



*N0
Mawile* was killed. He was *not scum*.

*D1
Stryke* was lynched. He was *not scum*.

*N0
Seshas* was killed. They were *not scum*.
*myuma* was killed. She was *not scum*.


----------



## Bluwiikoon

Yo what up


----------



## Trebek

oh no


----------



## mewtini

Stryke said:


> Glad u can play for longer, @myuma


:C


----------



## Bluwiikoon

This seems uhhhhh

Kind of... interesting? That the deaths are some of the main suspects we had   That's scary!


----------



## Trebek

looking at the flavor, my guess is that myuma was eliminated by some sort of vigilante-style player? one of them ended up in the time out basement, and she was the one with a train on her yesterday, so it is probably her over seshas


----------



## qenya

_well_

the flavour seems to indicate that one was a vigkill and one the mafia

but either seems a bit baffling for mafia to choose tbh, given that both were being either null- or lightly scumread by the majority of town

so idk?


----------



## rari_teh

…what


----------



## Trebek

ok while writing that i forgot that seshas was also a main player yesterday, but i still think that the time out basement is indicative of vigilante


----------



## Bluwiikoon

Very strange for the mafia to eliminate one of our main suspects... the vig I can understand, however!


----------



## mewtini

seshas was scary in tvtropes. makes sense mafia would also be afraid
maybe vig thought myuma could sort the EoD wagons somehow esp if they flipped red


----------



## Trebek

maybe we have a transporter? like all night actions targeting some other player were diverted to seshas/myuma and vice versa. actually targeting one of them seems weird for maf


----------



## mewtini

Bluwiikoon said:


> Very strange for the mafia to eliminate one of our main suspects... the vig I can understand, however!


idk if seshas was really a main suspect, though?


----------



## Trebek

mewtini said:


> Bluwiikoon said:
> 
> 
> 
> Very strange for the mafia to eliminate one of our main suspects... the vig I can understand, however!
> 
> 
> 
> idk if seshas was really a main suspect, though?
Click to expand...

maybe not main, but idk if i would target them as mafia


----------



## Bluwiikoon

mewtini said:


> Bluwiikoon said:
> 
> 
> 
> Very strange for the mafia to eliminate one of our main suspects... the vig I can understand, however!
> 
> 
> 
> idk if seshas was really a main suspect, though?
Click to expand...

Oh, good point! I kind of remember a Seshas train but it could also just be fear of their good playing like you said


----------



## mewtini

mewtini said:


> seshas was scary in tvtropes. makes sense mafia would also be afraid


by which i mean: she was impressive last game as town, so it could make sense for mafia to get rid of her earlier considering that she got off yesterDay pretty easily or if they thought she was a less likely mislynch?


----------



## mewtini

Bluwiikoon said:


> I kind of remember a Seshas train


it was only me/kyeugh and we weren't super committed i think


----------



## qenya

mewtini said:


> seshas was scary in tvtropes. makes sense mafia would also be afraid
> maybe vig thought myuma could sort the EoD wagons somehow esp if they flipped red


true

this means yesterDay's wagons were v/v which is. irritating for vca


----------



## Bluwiikoon

I've been asleep for 48 hours, excuse my rot-brain!


----------



## Trebek

mewtini said:


> mewtini said:
> 
> 
> 
> seshas was scary in tvtropes. makes sense mafia would also be afraid
> 
> 
> 
> by which i mean: she was impressive last game as town, so it could make sense for mafia to get rid of her earlier considering that she got off yesterDay pretty easily or if they thought she was a less likely mislynch?
Click to expand...

thats a good point, which would also imply that at least some mafia members were also in tvt (although now that i think about it, thats fairly likely anyways just considering the numbers)


----------



## mewtini

Trebek said:


> maybe not main, but idk if i would target them as mafia


who would you have?


----------



## Bluwiikoon

Hypocop: N1 mewtini green


----------



## RedneckPhoenix

dude what's even the point of living if i can't bully stryke.


----------



## rari_teh

wtf was the mafia’s reasoning behind this kill? even in the offchance of us being wrong about who was vigged and who was nightkilled, neither makes any sense for mafia??


----------



## Trebek

mewtini said:


> Trebek said:
> 
> 
> 
> maybe not main, but idk if i would target them as mafia
> 
> 
> 
> who would you have?
Click to expand...

off the top of my head im not sure, but i feel like it would end up being someone more TRed/solvey in chat


----------



## rari_teh

btw if I’m cop N1 IndigoEmmy green


----------



## qenya

Bluwiikoon said:


> Hypocop: N1 mewtini green


My N1 hypocop is *VM*, so I'm very sorry about FoSing him yesterday D:


----------



## qenya

rari_teh said:


> wtf was the mafia’s reasoning behind this kill? even in the offchance of us being wrong about who was vigged and who was nightkilled, neither makes any sense for mafia??


I think mewt's explanation of "they were intimidated by seshas" makes most sense tbh


----------



## mewtini

yeah im not as surprised as you guys but idk if i'm like super WTF about seshas, and its super unlikely myuma was the mafia kill :p


----------



## mewtini

mewtini said:


> but


idk why i put this word here


----------



## Bluwiikoon

So since a vig seems confirmed, would they not have made an action on N0 due to not having any reads on anybody yet? Or can we also assume doctors and or roleblockers?


----------



## Trebek

rari_teh said:


> wtf was the mafia’s reasoning behind this kill? even in the offchance of us being wrong about who was vigged and who was nightkilled, neither makes any sense for mafia??


if we are wrong about the vigging, what other options could exist to explain the flavor? 

(this sounds agressive, im just interesting in thinking about other possibilities so we dont hypofocus on one)


----------



## Bluwiikoon

Naughty cats go to cat jail


----------



## kyeugh

pretty sure i know who the vig is tbh


----------



## mewtini

Bluwiikoon said:


> So since a vig seems confirmed, would they not have made an action on N0 due to not having any reads on anybody yet? Or can we also assume doctors and or roleblockers?


doctors/RBs are common i think but i don't think the former is very unlikely


----------



## Trebek

Bluwiikoon said:


> So since a vig seems confirmed, would they not have made an action on N0 due to not having any reads on anybody yet? Or can we also assume doctors and or roleblockers?


could be down to individual mechanics: in ToS, vigs are not allowed to take N0 actions. not sure if there is a defined ruleset for vig in forum play that differs from that - if that is the case, then its likely not having reads


----------



## rari_teh

Bluwiikoon said:


> So since a vig seems confirmed, would they not have made an action on N0 due to not having any reads on anybody yet? Or can we also assume doctors and or roleblockers?


if I were the vig I wouldn’t kill anyone N0
N0 kills are essentially Russian roulette and there’s always a greater chance to hit an innocent than not


----------



## qenya

Bluwiikoon said:


> So since a vig seems confirmed, would they not have made an action on N0 due to not having any reads on anybody yet? Or can we also assume doctors and or roleblockers?


yeah, if I were vig, I wouldn't have hit anyone on N0. with zero information whatsoever the chances are you'd hit town

Jack explicitly said there would be no healer clash mechanic in this game, which maaaaaybe implies there is (at least one) healer? unless he's playing WIFOM with us :P


----------



## rari_teh

Trebek said:


> rari_teh said:
> 
> 
> 
> wtf was the mafia’s reasoning behind this kill? even in the offchance of us being wrong about who was vigged and who was nightkilled, neither makes any sense for mafia??
> 
> 
> 
> if we are wrong about the vigging, what other options could exist to explain the flavor?
> 
> (this sounds agressive, im just interesting in thinking about other possibilities so we dont hypofocus on one)
Click to expand...

the most reasonable explanation is indeed that of a vig
in fact, I can’t think of any other explanation rn
but there could be
even though it’s unlikely
anyway


----------



## mewtini

i was gonna say healclash but then saw koko's post and was like oh yeah.


----------



## Bluwiikoon

kyeugh said:


> pretty sure i know who the vig is tbh


This is pretty intriguing!


----------



## mewtini

it's really frustrating that the wagons were v/v tbh.


----------



## kyeugh

i think it makes perfect sense that the vig would hit myuma
mafia hitting seshas is less obvious but maybe that's the point, last game i was trying to hit people that were confusing/didn't give town much to work with.  i didn't hit anyone that was being widely read as town because those people were townreading me and it was better to keep them around.  that kind of makes me want to be suspicious of keldeo but it's like a huge reach


----------



## qenya

kyeugh said:


> mafia hitting seshas is less obvious but maybe that's the point, last game i was trying to hit people that were confusing/didn't give town much to work with.


this is true! hell, could even be an attempt to avoid doctors


----------



## Bluwiikoon

Is it worth wagoning for inactive folks today, and/or trying to draw some of the more lurky/inactive folks out of the woodwork? I'm also interested if anybody has more hypocop flips ^^


----------



## Bluwiikoon

The reason I mention inactives is that it feels like we're at a little bit of a standstill at the moment without more discussion and input from lots of different people. Being lurky has proven to be an effective strategy for scum in the past


----------



## mewtini

i have a list of q's i wanna ask people, will come back around in a bit to do so if its still worth


Bluwiikoon said:


> Is it worth wagoning for inactive folks today


i dont think both wagons should be inactives if thats what you mean
there's p much always some mafia in the active group, even if others are lurking

(also. im on a new keyboard that i hate if you could not tell. apostrophes? who are they)


----------



## Bluwiikoon

Apostrophes? What a catastrophe!


----------



## IndigoClaudia

Hey guys i no longer suspect seshas after the events of earlier


----------



## Tofu

Well that's interesting...


----------



## mewtini

IndigoEmmy said:


> Hey guys i no longer suspect seshas after the events of earlier


lol
actually one of the q's on my list. in #1000 you said that you were just being 'petty' when you first voted for seshas but later told m+7 like 10 posts later that if you were going to vote for anyone, it would be her. can you talk more abt that?


----------



## Bluwiikoon

Good to see you @Tofu !! :D Any stray thoughts about current mafia events or vibes about people?


----------



## Tofu

@Bluwiikoon 
Sort of, but I find it hard to develop vibes for people I don't know well, and since this is my first mafia game and I didn't directly follow TVT mafia, I don't have much to compare to. I'm also fairly new to the forums in general so I'm not used to seeing how everyone else types. I may have... other suspicions but I'm going to hold off saying anything until I absorb more.


----------



## mewtini

honestly, if you're up for it, hearing baby suspicions is still useful


----------



## mewtini

mewtini said:


> but *later *told m+7 like 10 posts *later*


i hate myself. ahem

okay so i decided that im not actually going to do work rn. therefore,



M Plus 7 said:


> mewtini said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> kokorico said:
> 
> 
> 
> All of which is to say: Please be gentle with those of us who don't seem to be reading people effectively.
> 
> 
> 
> i feel like it would be kind of scummy (Ha Ha) if i just ignored this post, so i wanted to say that i’m sorry for being kind of complicit here; i am struggling a lot with sorting people out and i know it’s in part because i don’t totally know how to tell those who just aren’t as comfortable reading others apart from “people i really should be looking at”
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> mewtini, can you talk to me about this some more? Do you have any read on koko specifically?
Click to expand...

@M Plus 7: forgot to answer this question in the EoD flurry. i don't really have any read on koko which makes me kind of antsy, but if it hadn't been for a specific comment, i probably wouldn't have had a read on em in the last game when e was town (e switched alignments partway through the game). no one else seems to feel badly about em so i'll just say my vibe is null/fine for now
@Superjolt: curious to hear your thoughts on EoD/thread at large once you've caught up! (same to trebek if he wants. i had seshas down for this question as well but ... RIP)
@Keldeo, your 1120 kind of confused me (i think you might have been responding to me saying "strykeposting feels slightly more neutral versus myuma who i could choose to read as pretty wolfy or as uncertain-town"?) wrt why it resulted in a stryke vote. this q kind of doesn't matter but could you talk abt your thinking there?


----------



## Keldeo

Man, someday I'll learn not to trust my gut on day 1. Sorry Myuma.

Agree that being put into the time-out basement implies some sort of town-aligned kill to me, i.e. a vig - the other reasons I can think for why someone might die all seem much less straightforward. The vig shooting a suspect is like, not very baffling to me haha, and then... I guess it could be a doctor or a roleblocker or something else that stopped the vig's kill n0. Or I could honestly imagine Jack not giving / Eifie getting Jack to not give the vig a n0 kill at all because dying n0 just kind of sucks.

Myuma being a villager... kind of makes me think getting antsy between the two wagons and swinging them back and forth last EOD was likely to be town too, rather than pursuing an agenda, but I should reread how that all went down. 

I'm very confused about the Seshas kill and if it's the reason Skylar gave 





kyeugh said:


> i think it makes perfect sense that the vig would hit myuma
> mafia hitting seshas is less obvious but maybe that's the point, last game i was trying to hit people that were confusing/didn't give town much to work with.  i didn't hit anyone that was being widely read as town because those people were townreading me and it was better to keep them around.  that kind of makes me want to be suspicious of keldeo but it's like a huge reach


that makes me want to lecture the mafia lol, like just kill people you can't mislynch, and if they were townreading you that just means they can't reevaluate later, man tapping on head gif. Killing someone for being confusing is kind of a bad reason, imo (and saying that I'm sure Jack's preparing a Keldeo Being Wrong About The Mafia's Motives slideshow in graveyard chat as we speak.) It kind of makes me wonder if someone might have redirected something onto Seshas? They should speak up if that's the case.

I am pretty busy this phase, might not be super engaged until like Saturday


----------



## kyeugh

Keldeo said:


> Killing someone for being confusing is kind of a bad reason, imo


 maybe!  i don't think it's good to assume every kill is being made for a good reason though—definitely didn't happen last game. :p if there's not a clear reason that seshas would be a good kill, i think it's kinda fair to assume it was done for a less-than-good reason, right?


----------



## Keldeo

mewtini said:


> @Keldeo, your 1120 kind of confused me (i think you might have been responding to me saying "strykeposting feels slightly more neutral versus myuma who i could choose to read as pretty wolfy or as uncertain-town"?) wrt why it resulted in a stryke vote. this q kind of doesn't matter but could you talk abt your thinking there?


Oh, no, it was in reference to this post of yours. It was also kind of a "I'm no longer vibing" vote with myuma being so far in the lead based on the votecount that you posted (it would have been 6-3 if Stryke had voted myuma in self-preservation)


----------



## rari_teh

Keldeo said:


> Eifie getting Jack to not give the vig a n0 kill at all because dying n0 just kind of sucks


just a reminder that Eifie said in tvt graveyard chat that she’d kill Flora N0 if she was vig from the beginning, so I guess this one’s a little far-fetched

wrt the possibility of a redirector, that would be interesting


----------



## Keldeo

If the kill got /deflected/ onto Seshas somehow then probably don't speak up, though, because that only guarantees a townie rather than a mafia. I think.



kyeugh said:


> Keldeo said:
> 
> 
> 
> Killing someone for being confusing is kind of a bad reason, imo
> 
> 
> 
> maybe!  i don't think it's good to assume every kill is being made for a good reason though—definitely didn't happen last game. :p if there's not a clear reason that seshas would be a good kill, i think it's kinda fair to assume it was done for a less-than-good reason, right?
Click to expand...

Yeah, I mean. The kill happened, so there was obviously some reason that it happened, whether that's something going on in the heads of the mafia where they wanted to target Seshas regardless of whether I think that's a good or a bad reason, or maybe some mechanical thing happened and they didn't actually mean to target Seshas. 

Doctor dodging was brought up and I guess that could make sense. I kinda doubt it was because of their reads because they weren't really current and didn't seem to be pushing anyone strongly, the only SR I can remember is kokorico? 

Snipping the later part of the vote history to stare at, I was kind of the only person swapping a lot at the end there so lol about that theory. Vague good vibes from rari and MP switching, maybe. 



Spoiler






JackPK said:


> kyeugh votes Stryke (#907)
> rari_teh votes Stryke (#909)
> *Herbe votes Stryke (#910)*
> mewtini votes Vipera Magnifica (#950)
> *myuma votes Stryke (#957)*
> mewtini votes Stryke (#965)
> mewtini votes myuma (#979)
> IndigoEmmy unvotes (#997)
> rari_teh votes myuma (#1032)
> *kyeugh votes myuma (#1040)
> Tofu votes abstain (#1058)
> kokorico votes Stryke (#1059)*
> Keldeo votes myuma (#1072)
> *Bluwiikoon votes myuma (#1111)*
> Keldeo votes Stryke (#1120)
> *rari_teh votes Stryke (#1132)*
> M Plus 7 votes myuma (#1140)
> Keldeo votes myuma (#1141)
> *Trebek votes myuma (#1143)
> Butterfree votes myuma (#1147)
> Keldeo votes Stryke (#1155)
> mewtini votes Stryke (#1162)
> M Plus 7 votes Stryke (#1163)*


----------



## Keldeo

Or 

mafia: how many levels of WIFOM are you on right now?
town: idk like maybe 5 or 6 my dude
mafia: you are like a little baby watch this 
mafia: (kills myuma in a burst of compression artifacts)


----------



## Keldeo

(to be clear I don't actually believe that theory, it is for The Joke)


----------



## Vipera Magnifica

Stryke's role claim and flip at the end of D1 made me realize something we completely overlooked.



JackPK said:


> I need *at least 14 players* for this game, and I can accommodate *up to a maximum of 25 players*. There are 14 power roles, and if we get extra players, the excess roles will be vanilla townies and vanilla scum. The ratio of scum-to-town will be 4-to-10 (29%) in a 14-player game and 6-to-19 (24%) in a 25-player game, and for in-between numbers, I'll distribute vanilla townie and vanilla scum roles so as to maintain a ratio between 24 and 29%.


If there are 21 players, and the ratio of scum-to-town is between 24 and 29%, then there must be 6 mafia in the player list (28.6%).

There are _only 14 power roles_, so this means the distribution of players should be:

10 town power roles
5 vanilla townies
4 mafia power roles
2 vanilla scum

Stryke actually was a vanilla townie, and there are 4 others, some of which may be dead already.

There are 6 mafia remaining, and 11 town.

The fact that we had competing v/v wagons yesterday makes it harder to sniff the mafia out based on voting history, but there could be some clues hidden there. I'll be posting my reads on that later.


----------



## Bluwiikoon

Damn that would be a lot of mafia  Scaryyy!


----------



## Bluwiikoon




----------



## Vipera Magnifica

I think that _6 mafia who can all communicate with each other _would be tremendously overpowered, and it's more likely that one of them is a terrorist, or another outgroup mafia. If we're lucky that person is already dead.


----------



## kyeugh

Vipera Magnifica said:


> If we're lucky that person is already dead.


 wouldn't we know?  or is jack doing the flips the same way butterfree did?


----------



## rari_teh

kyeugh said:


> Vipera Magnifica said:
> 
> 
> 
> If we're lucky that person is already dead.
> 
> 
> 
> wouldn't we know?  or is jack doing the flips the same way butterfree did?
Click to expand...

iirc Jack said that scum means mafia-aligned, but I might be misremembering


----------



## Vipera Magnifica

hey @JackPK, this a hypothetical question

_hypothetically_, would a terrorist flip as "not scum" on death in one of your games?


----------



## Tangrowth

Hey, everyone! FYI my schedule is pretty packed today unfortunately, but I'll be around ASAP.


----------



## JackPK

Vipera Magnifica said:


> hey @JackPK, this a hypothetical question
> 
> _hypothetically_, would a terrorist flip as "not scum" on death in one of your games?


I think this post from the sign-up thread covers it. (I generally don't treat flips/inspection results/actual alignments in different ways from each other unless it is intrinsic to the role, such as millers or godfathers.)


----------



## Keldeo

Vipera Magnifica said:


> hey @JackPK, this a hypothetical question
> 
> _hypothetically_, would a terrorist flip as "not scum" on death in one of your games?


snakewhistling itt

(actually, though, VM bringing up the fact that we actually know how many mafia PRs and stuff there are makes me feel better about him. Since literally no one else realized that, or if they were mafia they were keeping it quiet, it's just another thing he probably doesn't need to say as mafia, like his read on Tofu.)


----------



## Vipera Magnifica

well bummer then we're definitely still at 6 scum


----------



## Vipera Magnifica

Keldeo said:


> snakewhistling itt





Spoiler: town don't read this



HEY GUYS IT'S ME THE OUTGROUP MAFIA DON'T KILL ME PLEASE


----------



## kyeugh

i think we should kill vm.


----------



## Vipera Magnifica

There is actually someone I suspect after looking at voting records.

I'd like to wait a little more time before I say who that is though.

I encourage everyone to look through this and tell me what stands out to you.



Spoiler: D1 full vote history



Active votes bolded. Invalid votes stricken through.

kyeugh votes kyeugh (#162)
kyeugh unvotes (#166)
Keldeo votes Trebek (#509)
Vipera Magnifica votes Mawile (#516)
Keldeo unvotes (#589)
Keldeo votes myuma (#710)
kyeugh votes Seshas (#760)
mewtini votes Seshas (#766)
Vipera Magnifica votes Eifie (#781)
*Seshas votes Mr. Ultracool (#797)*
Vipera Magnifica votes abstain (#800)
IndigoEmmy votes abstain (#801)
IndigoEmmy votes abstain (#803)
IndigoEmmy votes Seshas (#805)
Vipera Magnifica votes IndigoEmmy (#819)
*RedneckPhoenix votes kyeugh (#833)*
Keldeo unvotes (#883)
Vipera Magnifica unvotes (#892)
mewtini votes Mr. Ultracool (#893)
Keldeo votes Mr. Ultracool (#905)
kyeugh votes Stryke (#907)
rari_teh votes Stryke (#909)
*Herbe votes Stryke (#910)*
mewtini votes Vipera Magnifica (#950)
*myuma votes Stryke (#957)*
mewtini votes Stryke (#965)
mewtini votes myuma (#979)
IndigoEmmy unvotes (#997)
rari_teh votes myuma (#1032)
*kyeugh votes myuma (#1040)
Tofu votes abstain (#1058)
kokorico votes Stryke (#1059)*
Keldeo votes myuma (#1072)
*Bluwiikoon votes myuma (#1111)*
Keldeo votes Stryke (#1120)
*rari_teh votes Stryke (#1132)*
M Plus 7 votes myuma (#1140)
Keldeo votes myuma (#1141)
*Trebek votes myuma (#1143)
Butterfree votes myuma (#1147)
Keldeo votes Stryke (#1155)
mewtini votes Stryke (#1162)
M Plus 7 votes Stryke (#1163)*


----------



## mewtini

mewtini said:


> actually one of the q's on my list. in #1000 you said that you were just being 'petty' when you first voted for seshas but later told m+7 like 10 posts later that if you were going to vote for anyone, it would be her. can you talk more abt that?


@IndigoEmmy, just in case you missed this!


----------



## mewtini

Vipera Magnifica said:


> I encourage everyone to look through this and tell me what stands out to you.


idk if you're going for pre- or mid-EoD voting flurry, but are you talking about herbe?


----------



## mewtini

(i am ignoring the rnp vote for now.)


----------



## Bluwiikoon

I think I see what VM is talking about


----------



## mewtini

am i just stupid


----------



## rari_teh

mewtini said:


> Vipera Magnifica said:
> 
> 
> 
> I encourage everyone to look through this and tell me what stands out to you.
> 
> 
> 
> idk if you're going for pre- or mid-EoD voting flurry, but are you talking about herbe?
Click to expand...

not sure if I follow…? what would be suspect about his vote?


----------



## Bluwiikoon

A certain person who voted a certain other person is no longer with us...


----------



## mewtini

literally i only guessed at it because i misread he was the first stryke vote :p i retract it


----------



## mewtini

Bluwiikoon said:


> A certain person who voted a certain other person is no longer with us...


ope
i didnt think about that since there were multiple ultracool votes and i figured seshas was one of the less TRed of the ultracool train?


----------



## rari_teh

Bluwiikoon said:


> A certain person who voted a certain other person is no longer with us...


I think that would be too obvious?
I mean, not like we should be always assuming that mafia is playing masterfully, but


----------



## Bluwiikoon

It's all I can see as a clue right now, but it could also definitely be some galaxy brain misleading by the wolves. 

I know we feel at the moment that Seshas' murder may be because wolves were intimidated by their prowess in previous games, but is it worth analysing the posts they've made in this thread to see if anything else sticks out?


----------



## mewtini

i have another conjecture as to what vm is referring to but i think it makes less sense than seshas. also i think im bad at this vote analysis game rn.


----------



## mewtini

skimming seshas' iso she TRed kyeugh/trebek, lightly sussed herbe in 796, but tbh idk if i think seshas got killed due to ultracool. looks like all they said was 


Seshas said:


> *Mr. Ultracool* probably, without really reading the thread


----------



## mewtini

oh and


Seshas said:


> Mr.Ultracool is at mixed vibes for me


----------



## Bluwiikoon

Iso just means uhhhh isolating their post history, right?


----------



## Bluwiikoon

Either that or we have some cd distribution happening around here


----------



## I liek Squirtles

Hello all,, sorry for the dumb questions but what are TR and CD?


----------



## mewtini

it does
ultracool train was me/seshas/keldeo at peak but seshas was pretty noncommittal about it
i'm biased because i liked ultracool's few posts but idk if that theory for seshas nk makes sense, like, none of us three really cared about it afaict lol and seshas wasn't getting collectively townread (or at least not more strongly than keldeo i think?)



I liek Squirtles said:


> Hello all,, sorry for the dumb questions but what are TR and CD?


CD isn't anything, blu was talking about .iso files i think
TR is townread


----------



## mewtini

mewtini said:


> it does


by which i mean iso = isolated post history


----------



## Vipera Magnifica

I want you folks to look at kyeugh's votes in particular



Spoiler: Full vote history



Active votes bolded. Invalid votes stricken through.

kyeugh votes kyeugh (#162)
kyeugh unvotes (#166)
Keldeo votes Trebek (#509)
Vipera Magnifica votes Mawile (#516)
Keldeo unvotes (#589)
Keldeo votes myuma (#710)
kyeugh votes Seshas (#760)
mewtini votes Seshas (#766)
Vipera Magnifica votes Eifie (#781)
*Seshas votes Mr. Ultracool (#797)*
Vipera Magnifica votes abstain (#800)
IndigoEmmy votes abstain (#801)
IndigoEmmy votes abstain (#803)
IndigoEmmy votes Seshas (#805)
Vipera Magnifica votes IndigoEmmy (#819)
*RedneckPhoenix votes kyeugh (#833)*
Keldeo unvotes (#883)
Vipera Magnifica unvotes (#892)
mewtini votes Mr. Ultracool (#893)
Keldeo votes Mr. Ultracool (#905)
kyeugh votes Stryke (#907)
rari_teh votes Stryke (#909)
*Herbe votes Stryke (#910)*
mewtini votes Vipera Magnifica (#950)
*myuma votes Stryke (#957)*
mewtini votes Stryke (#965)
mewtini votes myuma (#979)
IndigoEmmy unvotes (#997)
rari_teh votes myuma (#1032)
*kyeugh votes myuma (#1040)
Tofu votes abstain (#1058)
kokorico votes Stryke (#1059)*
Keldeo votes myuma (#1072)
*Bluwiikoon votes myuma (#1111)*
Keldeo votes Stryke (#1120)
*rari_teh votes Stryke (#1132)*
M Plus 7 votes myuma (#1140)
Keldeo votes myuma (#1141)
*Trebek votes myuma (#1143)
Butterfree votes myuma (#1147)
Keldeo votes Stryke (#1155)
mewtini votes Stryke (#1162)
M Plus 7 votes Stryke (#1163)*



kyeugh was the first person to vote for Seshas, who we know to be town.
kyeugh also started the Stryke wagon. Could this have possibly been to protect Mr. Ultracool? We'll come back to this later.
kyeugh finally voted for myuma, perhaps to distance herself from the wagon she started? myuma was, of course, town.

I just think it's a tad suspicious kyeugh _just happened_ to only vote for confirmed town. I'm parking my suspicion on *kyeugh* for the time being. I have noticed that mewtini also voted for the same three people, but unlike kyeugh she wasn't the one generating the momentum for those wagons. She also voted for Mr. Ultracool, so I think it's extremely likely that there is exactly one mafia between Mr. Ultracool/mewtini... and I'm leaning toward Mr. Ultracool.


----------



## kyeugh

not feeling this wagon tbh


----------



## rari_teh

Vipera Magnifica said:


> I want you folks to look at kyeugh's votes in particular
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Full vote history
> 
> 
> 
> Active votes bolded. Invalid votes stricken through.
> 
> kyeugh votes kyeugh (#162)
> kyeugh unvotes (#166)
> Keldeo votes Trebek (#509)
> Vipera Magnifica votes Mawile (#516)
> Keldeo unvotes (#589)
> Keldeo votes myuma (#710)
> kyeugh votes Seshas (#760)
> mewtini votes Seshas (#766)
> Vipera Magnifica votes Eifie (#781)
> *Seshas votes Mr. Ultracool (#797)*
> Vipera Magnifica votes abstain (#800)
> IndigoEmmy votes abstain (#801)
> IndigoEmmy votes abstain (#803)
> IndigoEmmy votes Seshas (#805)
> Vipera Magnifica votes IndigoEmmy (#819)
> *RedneckPhoenix votes kyeugh (#833)*
> Keldeo unvotes (#883)
> Vipera Magnifica unvotes (#892)
> mewtini votes Mr. Ultracool (#893)
> Keldeo votes Mr. Ultracool (#905)
> kyeugh votes Stryke (#907)
> rari_teh votes Stryke (#909)
> *Herbe votes Stryke (#910)*
> mewtini votes Vipera Magnifica (#950)
> *myuma votes Stryke (#957)*
> mewtini votes Stryke (#965)
> mewtini votes myuma (#979)
> IndigoEmmy unvotes (#997)
> rari_teh votes myuma (#1032)
> *kyeugh votes myuma (#1040)
> Tofu votes abstain (#1058)
> kokorico votes Stryke (#1059)*
> Keldeo votes myuma (#1072)
> *Bluwiikoon votes myuma (#1111)*
> Keldeo votes Stryke (#1120)
> *rari_teh votes Stryke (#1132)*
> M Plus 7 votes myuma (#1140)
> Keldeo votes myuma (#1141)
> *Trebek votes myuma (#1143)
> Butterfree votes myuma (#1147)
> Keldeo votes Stryke (#1155)
> mewtini votes Stryke (#1162)
> M Plus 7 votes Stryke (#1163)*
> 
> 
> 
> kyeugh was the first person to vote for Seshas, who we know to be town.
> kyeugh also started the Stryke wagon. Could this have possibly been to protect Mr. Ultracool? We'll come back to this later.
> kyeugh finally voted for myuma, perhaps to distance herself from the wagon she started? myuma was, of course, town.
> 
> I just think it's a tad suspicious kyeugh _just happened_ to only vote for confirmed town. I'm parking my suspicion on *kyeugh* for the time being. I have noticed that mewtini also voted for the same three people, but unlike kyeugh she wasn't the one generating the momentum for those wagons. She also voted for Mr. Ultracool, so I think it's extremely likely that there is exactly one mafia between Mr. Ultracool/mewtini... and I'm leaning toward Mr. Ultracool.


I kinda see where you’re coming from, but I don’t think I agree?
like, I might be being really naïve here, but didn’t pretty much everybody who ever voted D1 vote on Stryke, myuma and/or Ultracool?
if the problem’s starting wagons, Keldeo was the first to try a myumawagon and failed; does that mean that kyeugh is likelier to be maf than Keldeo only because she succeeded in her wagonmounting endeavours?
I don’t vibe with this tbh


----------



## mewtini

hm. idk tbh. i see your point but i feel less personally weird about it when i would've started the seshas train if she hadn't (i think i said as much when i joined the wagon). that probably doesn't make me look any better but meh ... i guess she made the case for myuma so mayyybe that's something but i remember thinking that stryke made sense as a pressure vote, and like i said i already wanted more out of seshas

i would probably sooner want to look at the people who flipped between myuma/stryke without giving much rationale (in the hopes of coming off towny-confused) if that makes sense


----------



## mewtini

also keldeo started the myuma thoughts


----------



## mewtini

oh rari just said that oops.


----------



## mewtini

if kyeugh is mafia again i will hate myself for this but 

i've talked a little about why i don't presently feel like she is, and evn if i didn't agree with her votes (which i kinda did this time around) i don't think placing the first vote on someone should be suspicious grounds in and of itself. granted i get really nervous about it and thats why i only ever follow people onto wagons lmfao


----------



## mewtini

mewtini said:


> suspicious grounds


that is not how one uses this phrase. 4 hours of sleep gang


----------



## Herbe

hi y'all.

n1 hypocop: *butterfree*

no that is not a vote i just bolded it to make it easier to read

when i was catching up with the thread and i got to the VM "look at this list" post kyeugh stood out to me too. i went to mini vindication station when vm said that was on his mind too lmao. not ready to vote just yet, but let's stir this pot a bit.


----------



## kyeugh

i'm not really sure in what way the pot is supposed to be stirred.  my votes made sense to me (and others!) at the time i made them and it's regrettable that they were landing on villagers but it's not like anyone had any better ideas.  not really going to defend myself beyond that, if you want to vote on me for it then whatever but i don't think it's productive to engage with it more than that


----------



## Butterfree

If I'm cop I checked myuma last night. :(



Keldeo said:


> If the kill got /deflected/ onto Seshas somehow then probably don't speak up, though, because that only guarantees a townie rather than a mafia. I think.


Can you clarify what you mean by "that only guarantees a townie rather than a mafia"? I don't think I follow.



Vipera Magnifica said:


> I just think it's a tad suspicious kyeugh _just happened_ to only vote for confirmed town.


Mmmm, only voting for townies seems like pretty tenuous evidence. There's nothing that makes it unlikely a townie would vote for three different townies on D1, and the fact the people kyeugh voted for happen to now be dead and confirmed thus doesn't really have anything to do with her alignment (in fact, if anything one would think if she were mafia the people she voted for would be people she saw as plausible lynch targets and might not go for in the night). I'm not sure this means anything? (And also if I'm a cop she's clear.)


----------



## mewtini

fwiw i really disagree with vm but i think he's been townier than not so far (tofu thing, stirring things up between this and the metatalk, bringing up game setup)? can other people give their thoughts on that



Butterfree said:


> Can you clarify what you mean by "that only guarantees a townie rather than a mafia"? I don't think I follow.


i think he was talking about case a) someone _deflecting _actions from a townie onto someone else versus case b) someone _redirecting_ actions from someone (mafia) to someone else


----------



## rari_teh

Butterfree said:


> Can you clarify what you mean by "that only guarantees a townie rather than a mafia"? I don't think I follow.


fwiw I think he meant that a mafia deflector wouldn’t target the mafia don, nor the mafia don’s nightkill target


----------



## Vipera Magnifica

Let's talk probability!

If kyeugh is town, and were to vote at random from the other players, the chance of hitting town would be 68.4%

13/19 = .684

If kyeugh were to pick another player, the chance of voting two town players in a row drops to 45.6%

(12/18)*(13/19)  = .667

Now if kyeugh were to vote one more player, the chance of voting three town players in a row drops to 29.5%

(11/17)*(12/18)*(13/19) = .295

Sure, it's still quite possible that kyeugh just was unlucky. If this were to happen to anyone else I might overlook it, but kyeugh was the person who started two of those wagons. If I were to wager on anyone being mafia right now, I'd bet my money on kyeugh.


----------



## mewtini

rari_teh said:


> fwiw I think he meant that a mafia deflector wouldn’t target the mafia don, nor the mafia don’s nightkill target


oh maybe. i was going off of


Keldeo said:


> It kind of makes me wonder if someone might have redirected something onto Seshas? They should speak up if that's the case.





Keldeo said:


> If the kill got /deflected/ onto Seshas somehow then probably don't speak up, though


----------



## Vipera Magnifica

If more persuasive evidence arises, I'm willing to move to a different wagon, but for now I still suspect kyeugh.

If kyeugh is mafia, then I also believe that rari_teh is mafia.


----------



## mewtini

Vipera Magnifica said:


> If kyeugh is mafia, then I also believe that rari_teh is mafia.


what correlation are you seeing?


----------



## kyeugh

Vipera Magnifica said:


> Let's talk probability!
> 
> If kyeugh is town, and were to vote at random from the other players, the chance of hitting town would be 68.4%
> 
> 13/19 = .684
> 
> If kyeugh were to pick another player, the chance of voting two town players in a row drops to 45.6%
> 
> (12/18)*(13/19)  = .667
> 
> Now if kyeugh were to vote one more player, the chance of voting three town players in a row drops to 29.5%
> 
> (11/17)*(12/18)*(13/19) = .295
> 
> Sure, it's still quite possible that kyeugh just was unlucky. If this were to happen to anyone else I might overlook it, but kyeugh was the person who started two of those wagons. If I were to wager on anyone being mafia right now, I'd bet my money on kyeugh.


 i’m not sure i understand the value in looking at my votes as if they’re random events. i didn’t get “unlucky” my reads were just wrong (as were everyone else’s apparently)


----------



## rari_teh

Vipera Magnifica said:


> Let's talk probability!
> 
> If kyeugh is town, and were to vote at random from the other players, the chance of hitting town would be 68.4%
> 
> 13/19 = .684
> 
> If kyeugh were to pick another player, the chance of voting two town players in a row drops to 45.6%
> 
> (12/18)*(13/19)  = .667
> 
> Now if kyeugh were to vote one more player, the chance of voting three town players in a row drops to 29.5%
> 
> (11/17)*(12/18)*(13/19) = .295
> 
> Sure, it's still quite possible that kyeugh just was unlucky. If this were to happen to anyone else I might overlook it, but kyeugh was the person who started two of those wagons. If I were to wager on anyone being mafia right now, I'd bet my money on kyeugh.


Still, wouldn’t it be even weirder for the mafia to kill someone who not only had an active wagon during the Day, but whose wagon was started by a maf who also happened to start the winning wagon?
Once again, I might be being naïve, but this still doesn’t make sense to me. Besides, if The Weather Channel says that there’s a 29.5% chance of raining, I’m getting my ass off the couch to take the clothes off the line.


----------



## Vipera Magnifica

mewtini said:


> Vipera Magnifica said:
> 
> 
> 
> If kyeugh is mafia, then I also believe that rari_teh is mafia.
> 
> 
> 
> what correlation are you seeing?
Click to expand...

Similar, possibly coordinated voting patterns, also rari_teh has been extremely quick to defend kyeugh


----------



## kyeugh

i spent like half of yesterday criticizing her read
this is weird vibes tbh


----------



## Herbe

Trebek said:


> rari_teh said:
> 
> 
> 
> wtf was the mafia’s reasoning behind this kill? even in the offchance of us being wrong about who was vigged and who was nightkilled, neither makes any sense for mafia??
> 
> 
> 
> if we are wrong about the vigging, what other options could exist to explain the flavor?
> 
> (this sounds agressive, im just interesting in thinking about other possibilities so we dont hypofocus on one)
Click to expand...

idk. lovers? fishing brothers? some sort of weird modified version of those? also, do we know which of seshas/myuma was timed-out and which was vanished?


kyeugh said:


> i spent like half of yesterday criticizing her read


you spent all of tvt distancing me like a pro


----------



## qenya

mewtini said:


> fwiw i really disagree with vm but i think he's been townier than not so far (tofu thing, stirring things up between this and the metatalk, bringing up game setup)? can other people give their thoughts on that


I would agree even if I didn't have a (hypo)greencheck on him! Especially calculating how many mafia there are - don't see why mafia!he would bring that up if it seemed like we were all overlooking it. (yeah, yeah, he could be wifom-ing, but let's be honest nobody really knows how to read that anyway)

To be honest, I wasn't really feeling the kyeugh thing but now VM's pointed out the number of mafia I'm starting to wonder. Consider this: On my spreadsheet there are 17 living players. Minus myself and my two greenchecks, that leaves 14 potential mafia, of which 6 are actually scum. That's an insanely high proportion! If any of my townreads are reliable at all (and I know I'm not great at reads, but I think they're at least better than random chance) I would expect a random lynch from my nullpile {Trebek, Emmy, M+7, RNP, Ultracool, Superjolt, Butterfree} to have at least a ~50% chance of hitting. So I concur with VM that it seems _weird_ for kyeugh to have hit three townies.

Something still feels off about VM's theory but I don't think it's so much of a reach that we should dismiss it out of hand


----------



## Butterfree

Incidentally I remembered M+7 asked me some questions I never got to answer yesterday, so for good measure:



M Plus 7 said:


> Oh, you played in Champs? Awesome! What game?
> 
> What about Stryke and Ultracool feels pure? I agree with you on the latter, not sure about the former.


I played in season 5 game 1! (I'm antialiasis.)

I guess Stryke being pure is kind of irrelevant now, but I believe was particularly thinking of stuff like #958, where he expressed not liking any of the opposing lynch trains while he was under attack. In general it felt like he was reasoning from a genuine, non-opportunistic perspective.


----------



## Vipera Magnifica

kyeugh said:


> Vipera Magnifica said:
> 
> 
> 
> Let's talk probability!
> 
> If kyeugh is town, and were to vote at random from the other players, the chance of hitting town would be 68.4%
> 
> 13/19 = .684
> 
> If kyeugh were to pick another player, the chance of voting two town players in a row drops to 45.6%
> 
> (12/18)*(13/19)  = .667
> 
> Now if kyeugh were to vote one more player, the chance of voting three town players in a row drops to 29.5%
> 
> (11/17)*(12/18)*(13/19) = .295
> 
> Sure, it's still quite possible that kyeugh just was unlucky. If this were to happen to anyone else I might overlook it, but kyeugh was the person who started two of those wagons. If I were to wager on anyone being mafia right now, I'd bet my money on kyeugh.
> 
> 
> 
> i’m not sure i understand the value in looking at my votes as if they’re random events. i didn’t get “unlucky” my reads were just wrong (as were everyone else’s apparently)
Click to expand...

exactly, they're _not _random events. They were informed choices. If you were town, with the information available to you, you would have an even lower percentage of voting for three townies.

If you're mafia, then you already know who all the town are.


----------



## Herbe

vm might be tunnling/overzealous here, and I don't think the sus on kyeugh is airtight


kokorico said:


> Something still feels off about VM's theory but I don't think it's so much of a reach that we should dismiss it out of hand


^ i agree with this from kokorico.


----------



## qenya

kokorico said:


> my nullpile {Trebek, Emmy, M+7, RNP, Ultracool, Superjolt, Butterfree}


(and yes, the implication here is that I was previously lightly TRing kyeugh, since she's being far more aggressive/vocally solvey than her scumgame in TVT)


----------



## rari_teh

Herbe said:


> also, do we know which of seshas/myuma was timed-out and which was vanished?


we theorize that myuma was vigged because a) it makes zero sense for mafia to kill the second largest wagon and b) a vig would want to flip her in the hopes that a redflip would elucidate voting movements


----------



## kyeugh

Vipera Magnifica said:


> kyeugh said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Vipera Magnifica said:
> 
> 
> 
> Let's talk probability!
> 
> If kyeugh is town, and were to vote at random from the other players, the chance of hitting town would be 68.4%
> 
> 13/19 = .684
> 
> If kyeugh were to pick another player, the chance of voting two town players in a row drops to 45.6%
> 
> (12/18)*(13/19)  = .667
> 
> Now if kyeugh were to vote one more player, the chance of voting three town players in a row drops to 29.5%
> 
> (11/17)*(12/18)*(13/19) = .295
> 
> Sure, it's still quite possible that kyeugh just was unlucky. If this were to happen to anyone else I might overlook it, but kyeugh was the person who started two of those wagons. If I were to wager on anyone being mafia right now, I'd bet my money on kyeugh.
> 
> 
> 
> i’m not sure i understand the value in looking at my votes as if they’re random events. i didn’t get “unlucky” my reads were just wrong (as were everyone else’s apparently)
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> exactly, they're _not _random events. They were informed choices. If you were town, with the information available to you, you would have an even lower percentage of voting for three townies.
> 
> If you're mafia, then you already know who all the town are.
Click to expand...

if this was true then town would just win every time


----------



## kyeugh

kokorico said:


> To be honest, I wasn't really feeling the kyeugh thing but now VM's pointed out the number of mafia I'm starting to wonder. Consider this: On my spreadsheet there are 17 living players. Minus myself and my two greenchecks, that leaves 14 potential mafia, of which 6 are actually scum. That's an insanely high proportion! If any of my townreads are reliable at all (and I know I'm not great at reads, but I think they're at least better than random chance) I would expect a random lynch from my nullpile {Trebek, Emmy, M+7, RNP, Ultracool, Superjolt, Butterfree} to have at least a ~50% chance of hitting. So I concur with VM that it seems _weird_ for kyeugh to have hit three townies.


this kind of makes sense except for that i wasn’t really trying to get seshas lynched and the myuma wagon wasn’t even mine. it’s not like i just shot three townies in a row

btw if i’m cop n1 rari green

also gonna do this for now *mr ultracool*


----------



## Butterfree

Vipera Magnifica said:


> Let's talk probability!
> 
> If kyeugh is town, and were to vote at random from the other players, the chance of hitting town would be 68.4%
> 
> 13/19 = .684
> 
> If kyeugh were to pick another player, the chance of voting two town players in a row drops to 45.6%
> 
> (12/18)*(13/19)  = .667
> 
> Now if kyeugh were to vote one more player, the chance of voting three town players in a row drops to 29.5%
> 
> (11/17)*(12/18)*(13/19) = .295
> 
> Sure, it's still quite possible that kyeugh just was unlucky. If this were to happen to anyone else I might overlook it, but kyeugh was the person who started two of those wagons. If I were to wager on anyone being mafia right now, I'd bet my money on kyeugh.


kyeugh isn't the only person playing, though. If every town player has a 29.5% chance of voting for three townies, then out of 13 townies probably four of them would happen to vote for three townies purely by coincidence in any given day (well, that's simplified because it's assuming everyone votes for three different people, but). Picking out one of them and then saying it's unlikely they'd vote three townies is fallacious.

I'd have to look at kyeugh's posts again to see how her starting the wagons might influence things, but statistically this is very misleading.


----------



## I liek Squirtles

Personally I'm not suuuper buying the 'Mr Ultracool is mafia because Seshas is dead' thing because it sticks out like a sore thumb to me. Similarly I'm not super buying VM's skylar theory but I'd still like to explore this a little bit for Science.



kyeugh said:


> i think if the mr ultracool wagon turned into a myuma one and we were between stryke/myuma that would feel ideal


I was looking through skylar's post history and I'm curious about this, since it would kind of feed into both theories.


----------



## mewtini

i'll be honest that on skim i feel like this is a bizarre tunnel
will read more indepth later


----------



## kyeugh

I liek Squirtles said:


> I was looking through skylar's post history and I'm curious about this, since it would kind of feed into both theories.


basically what i meant by this is that if we could move the vote off my partner mr ultracool and onto a pair of townies that would be best for me. hopefully that makes sense


----------



## Herbe

kyeugh said:


> I liek Squirtles said:
> 
> 
> 
> I was looking through skylar's post history and I'm curious about this, since it would kind of feed into both theories.
> 
> 
> 
> basically what i meant by this is that if we could move the vote off my partner mr ultracool and onto a pair of townies that would be best for me. hopefully that makes sense
Click to expand...

understandable, have a nice day


----------



## mewtini

like fwiw. if i were to be more liberal in my voting (and as i've admitted, i am really cagey about placing votes because i get scared of being called out for it) i def would have voted for 3 or 4 townies, for whom i had semigenuine suspicion, at some point during a single day in tvt or my other game. i don't love the probability argument tbh

i know anecdotal evidence != real evidence but i just wanted to say that


----------



## mewtini

mewtini said:


> semigenuine


*semistrong probably fits better


----------



## I liek Squirtles

kyeugh said:


> I liek Squirtles said:
> 
> 
> 
> I was looking through skylar's post history and I'm curious about this, since it would kind of feed into both theories.
> 
> 
> 
> basically what i meant by this is that if we could move the vote off my partner mr ultracool and onto a pair of townies that would be best for me. hopefully that makes sense
Click to expand...

gghhg sorry, I sent the post before I saw you voted for mr ultracool


----------



## Herbe

mewtini said:


> i don't love the probability argument tbh


i think this is the biggest thing that feels off to me right now abt vm's push. also i don't have a genuine scumread on kyeugh from behavior anyway, but.


----------



## mewtini

yeah i'm arguing this based on principle but i also am not SRing kyeugh at all rn. i'd probably be saying much of the same thing even if i did scumlean her tho.


----------



## kyeugh

I liek Squirtles said:


> kyeugh said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I liek Squirtles said:
> 
> 
> 
> I was looking through skylar's post history and I'm curious about this, since it would kind of feed into both theories.
> 
> 
> 
> basically what i meant by this is that if we could move the vote off my partner mr ultracool and onto a pair of townies that would be best for me. hopefully that makes sense
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> gghhg sorry, I sent the post before I saw you voted for mr ultracool
Click to expand...

omg no you’re good i wasn’t making a dig
reasonable post to raise even considering my vote honestly


----------



## Vipera Magnifica

kyeugh said:


> pretty sure i know who the vig is tbh


can you elaborate on this?


----------



## mewtini

um ... can she not elaborate on that tbh D:


----------



## Vipera Magnifica

why even say that at all then


----------



## mewtini

? i don't think saying it (when in context she was indirectly responding to people wondering about the existence of a vig) has anything to do with actually wanting to elaborate on power role spec, which no one should do regardless


----------



## mewtini

mewtini said:


> when in context she was indirectly responding to people wondering about the existence of a vig


well actually. this is just how i read it. idk if that was actually the point of the post or not, but either way


----------



## kyeugh

yeah i was just kind of thinking aloud bc vig stuff was being discussed
i don’t really want to push anyone to claim or paint a target on anyone’s back though


----------



## mewtini

also i agree with koko/herbe/whoever else said it that i don't want to like. shut down spec or anything out of hand, just ... i just think it's sort of an unconvincing argument :/


----------



## Herbe

mewtini said:


> ? i don't think saying it (when in context she was indirectly responding to people wondering about the existence of a vig) has anything to do with actually wanting to elaborate on power role spec, which no one should do regardless


does power role spec do more harm than good for town?


----------



## mewtini

yes
makes it easier for mafia to try to kill off a PR


----------



## Herbe

genuine question btw idk best practices


----------



## Herbe

ahhh. ninja'd. thank you. gotta wait 6 seconds


----------



## mewtini

no dw. i didn't know until eifie yelled at us all for cop speculation in tvt


----------



## qenya

Herbe said:


> does power role spec do more harm than good for town?


tradition says yes but I'm realising I can't actually articulate why


----------



## qenya

kokorico said:


> Herbe said:
> 
> 
> 
> does power role spec do more harm than good for town?
> 
> 
> 
> tradition says yes but I'm realising I can't actually articulate why
Click to expand...

goddammit, ninja'd FOUR times


----------



## mewtini

I liek Squirtles said:


> I'm not suuuper buying the 'Mr Ultracool is mafia because Seshas is dead' thing because it sticks out like a sore thumb to me


also agree with ils
similarly i think hard-hypothesizing possible w/w by "who most quickly defends who" is kind of naive. not that it never happens, but like, if skylar flipped red i wouldn't be changing my rari vibe esp considering trebekkening


----------



## Vipera Magnifica

also I’m fine with a *Mr. Ultracool* lynch, he’s pretty likely to be scum regardless of skylar’s alignment

even if Ultracool were to flip red kyeugh could just be throwing him under the bus right now


----------



## mewtini

i'm fine with *mr ultracool* for now but unless he talks drastically more than he has/did in tvt my d1 complaint about it being a useless (and imo, near-random at this point) lynch will probably stand
but ya know. the day is young!!


----------



## rari_teh

I’ll refrain from voting this early in the Day without a redcheck – esp given the flimsiness of the lynchtrain –, but I def wanna hear more from Ultracool


----------



## mewtini

honestly i'm just forcing myself to start voting more. life is short bro.
i still liked ultracool's few d1 posts tbh


----------



## kyeugh

tbh yeah i didn’t intend to start a thing here ope


----------



## mewtini

keldeoooo


----------



## rari_teh

let’s move this thread a bit shall we
@Bluwiikoon iirc you didn’t give your opinion on the matter yet. would you mind sharing your thoughts?


----------



## mewtini

actually tbh sorry to interrogate you more vm but


Vipera Magnifica said:


> he’s pretty likely to be scum regardless of skylar’s alignment


what do you mean by this. just statistically?


----------



## mewtini

oh, are you going off the seshas nkill


----------



## Bluwiikoon

rari_teh said:


> let’s move this thread a bit shall we
> @Bluwiikoon iirc you didn’t give your opinion on the matter yet. would you mind sharing your thoughts?


Tbh I'm about to sleep and will probably think it over a bit, but I just wanted to respond now so you know I saw this and I'm ruminating it ^^

Remember to rest and to hydrate, folks!


----------



## Vipera Magnifica

mewtini said:


> actually tbh sorry to interrogate you more vm but
> 
> 
> Vipera Magnifica said:
> 
> 
> 
> he’s pretty likely to be scum regardless of skylar’s alignment
> 
> 
> 
> what do you mean by this. just statistically?
Click to expand...

I think if skylar is town, there is a very good chance that Mr. Ultracool is mafia for the same reasons that people suspected him yesterday.

If my theory is correct and skylar is mafia, then it's just like her to bus her mafia partner to throw suspicion off herself, especially when she never intended for it to become a wagon and was only doing it as an empty gesture.


----------



## mewtini

i'm confused by the first half - he's actually playing similarly to how he was as town in tropes; it's just that it's pretty easy to replicate that as scum and am not seeing that as 'a very good chance.' that's the bit that i think comes up as a fairly random lynch actually

i see your logic in the second half


----------



## RedneckPhoenix

if i'm a cop then kyeugh is an asshole but innocent.

you stole my kill


----------



## kyeugh

what kill


----------



## mewtini

stryke i assume lol

i'm gonna think out loud for a bit so at least everything is in one place. more granular list this time because i love stress, ig. forced myself to be more selective about my TR tier this go-around
still mostly not ranked though

ps in my post above i meant to say "i'm not seeing that as 'a very good chance' of hitting scum"


Spoiler: some kind of tierlist








*s tier*
- mewtini 





*townread*
- rari (hypo n0). if i'm not cop, still vibing; fairly cautionless posting imo and has been drawing decently solvy-feeling comparisons (e.g. 564 and 1042, even if i didn't agree w the latter)
- kyeugh (hypo n1). if i'm not cop, also still vibing for now for reasons i've talked about
- keldeo. maybe i'll get duped here, but. i liked his EoD and the trebekkening.





* townlean*
- bfree, asking "why are we suspicious of stryke?" in 945/EoD feels like an unnecessary move for a wolf. not much in her iso as of yet and i am admittedly maybe getting lightpocketed because i've agreed a fair amount with the few posts she's written (on probability + voicing initial confusion with trebekkening)
- bluwiikoon (sounds pure, seems to have priorities in order. could go up but i'm tryna keep the TR section nice and lean.)
- m+7 (not much development from my last read, just putting him here for now. i talked about this a bit in 923, haven't gone back to read him over since)
- ultracool (between here and 'no thoughts')





*lightly concerned (by which i mean 'not townleaning')*
- superjolt, for being around but not "current" (as i think keldeo said) during EoD. i did think his initial thought-dump during his catchup felt like someone genuinely trying to piece the game together though, so ... idk.
- trebek, previously was in No Thoughts, Head Empty-ville but am moving him here for the same thing as superjolt. he came in late during EoD which obvi i'm not going to scumlean someone for, but idk if it's great that his only non-vote post during EoD was to fix his optics/clarify a post he made that wasn't related to the voting wagons. at t-minus-9 to EoD. i guess i say this w the allowance that maybe his lack of current-ness just due to being new? (newer than jolt at least) but





*have feelings but have (read) commitment issues*
- VM (could go in townlean for reasons i mentioned earlier. i feel like maybe we're just clashing this game, idk ...)
- herbe (could go in townlean i guess?)
- emmy (idk if i should be worried that she didn't answer my q before while she was still online/reacting inthread? i asked it kind of expecting that she'd just say "idk, just da vibe" but she wasn't super question dodgy last game)
- ILS i initially was kinda shrug in re: flavorspec because i don't really think individual flavor roles actually matter very much and wasn't going to change my read so long as he didn't talk about game content. but now he has. things i see upon reading back: he said seshas pinged him as town, which i guess could kinda go either way, idk. light rari shade that could be NAI but still makes me feel a little bit weird (the 763 - 777 thing i talked about in 946). but i like 1301 well enough i think?





*no thoughts. head empty*
- kokorico (i don't really have any explanation tbh, sorry)
- rnp (is rnp, and also isn't super active)
- tofu (low-poster)


_other thoughts:_
- would be interested in readlist from butterfree whenever she's able/willing
- VM said earlier that rari was suspiciously "quick to defend" skylar and i am kind of not seeing that tbh aside from the fact that rari's 1272 was the first response to VM's initial kyeughpush, which doesn't mean anything imo. also like, in that case i fall into the same boat because my post came right after rari's, unless VM just doesn't care as much because my voting patterns differed from kyeugh's or w/e (this should probably go in the list but, whatever. it's my post and i'm lazy hehe.)
- i miss seshas lol. bring seshas back
- i said earlier that it could be worth looking at people who flipflopped during EoD in an effort to Look Confused or noncommittally voted, thinking that "there has to have been at least one wolf present right ... ?" but i don't think the actual list really turns up much, like. trebek and maaaybe butterfree. i dunno
- mewt should probably start proofreading but she's going to hit Post reply anyway because she can't be fucked to go back over this
- *unvote* for now


----------



## mewtini

oh actually tierlist amendment, i'd move kokorico to townlean probably. eir accidental placement here is an artifact of my last list


----------



## kyeugh

mewtini said:


> stryke i assume lol


yeah but
>kill


----------



## mewtini

anyway i can't believe that so few posts have been made since earlier this evening. i am lonely in da thread rn.


----------



## mewtini

lmfao, > kill indeed, i was just thinking it was Classic RNP?


----------



## mewtini




----------



## mewtini

a lot of effort was put in 2nite
and i keep hitting post reply before i mean to


----------



## Tofu

I kind of wonder if any "twin" cats (Mungojerrie/Rumpleteazer or Plato and Socrates but the latter look like really minor characters I only found when I googled who the twin cats were) are inflating the mafia-aligned numbers (just by one I guess, but still) but if they are going to be like classic a twin/lovers role they'd both just die if one of them did. In the movie the calico ones (don't make me type Mungjeraoeunth/Ruda,.ic,au) were Macavity aligned for part of it so it's possible


----------



## Tofu

If I were Skylar and was mafia, I would want to go along with who the town wanted to lynch, especially if they happened to just be town, to look like I was part of the town consciousness; no need to start all of the wagons herself. Perhaps it was random unfortunate chance that they both happened to be town, but this would just be an added bonus for any mafia players posting here, because they could easily agree with the masses without any negative consequences to them or the mafia


----------



## Tofu

I didn't mean that to sound like I'm defending Skylar. I meant more like, the entire mafia got lucky that the town generally agreed with voting for town-aligned people. Because Skylar only really mentioned seshas and then just went along with the other votes... I'm saying it just happened to work out well for the mafia (and Skylar, if Skylar is mafia). Because it's early in the game and nobody knows who is who, the mafia can easily nudge the town in the wrong direction, especially if there are like six of them...?


----------



## Tofu




----------



## RedneckPhoenix

kyeugh said:


> mewtini said:
> 
> 
> 
> stryke i assume lol
> 
> 
> 
> yeah but
> >kill
Click to expand...

who started the goddamn wagon, again? on the innocent, extremely bully-able man?


----------



## kyeugh

Tofu said:


> I didn't mean that to sound like I'm defending Skylar. I meant more like, the entire mafia got lucky that the town generally agreed with voting for town-aligned people. Because Skylar only really mentioned seshas and then just went along with the other votes... I'm saying it just happened to work out well for the mafia (and Skylar, if Skylar is mafia). Because it's early in the game and nobody knows who is who, the mafia can easily nudge the town in the wrong direction, especially if there are like six of them...?


yeah i think this is kind of the thing honestly, mafia doesn’t really need to stick their neck out forming a bunch of wagons d1 because town probably will (and did) do the heavy lifting for them


----------



## kyeugh

RedneckPhoenix said:


> who started the goddamn wagon, again? on the innocent, extremely bully-able man?


 you could’ve voted on him if you cared so much smh


----------



## Tofu

Idk why but vm has been sitting around like this all day


----------



## mewtini

mewtini said:


> *lightly concerned (by which i mean 'not townleaning')*


gdi this was my favorite image link in the post, why did it break wtf
for yalls pleasure <3






anyway goooood morning to everyone except the mafia


----------



## kyeugh

mewtini said:


> anyway goooood morning to everyone except the mafia


man i’m allowed to have a good morning too


----------



## mewtini

*kyeugh*, that was a CRYSTAL CLEAR scumslip. wake up sheeple!


----------



## kyeugh

fuck. sorry rnp/mr ultracool, i was just weighing you guys down anyway. good luck


----------



## mewtini

(*unvote *lol)


----------



## Bluwiikoon

Howdy everybody! I got kinda slam dunked by real life today, but I think I'm gonna reread the events of last night and try to scrounge up some kind of helpful thoughts ^^ So far I feel that VM's theories on kyeugh make sense, yet the disputes against VM's theories also make sense  Ultracool train seems fine, probably need to get some more discussion going Today and see if Mr Ultracool can come and talk to us (also we need keldeoooo!)


----------



## Bluwiikoon

Just skimming back rn



I liek Squirtles said:


> Personally I'm not suuuper buying the 'Mr Ultracool is mafia because Seshas is dead' thing because it sticks out like a sore thumb to me. Similarly I'm not super buying VM's skylar theory but I'd still like to explore this a little bit for Science.
> 
> 
> 
> kyeugh said:
> 
> 
> 
> i think if the mr ultracool wagon turned into a myuma one and we were between stryke/myuma that would feel ideal
> 
> 
> 
> I was looking through skylar's post history and I'm curious about this, since it would kind of feed into both theories.
Click to expand...

@I liek Squirtles Hi buddy! ^^ Haven't seen you in thread for a little while, it's great to hear from you! Just wondering, what in particular made you feel strongly inclined to post your thoughts about the Ultracool and kyeugh theories?


----------



## Bluwiikoon

Alas I have accidentally claimed page 69. Sorry folks LOL


----------



## IndigoClaudia

I'm back!


----------



## mewtini

Bluwiikoon said:


> So far I feel that VM's theories on kyeugh make sense, yet the disputes against VM's theories also make sense


when you get a chance could you talk more about this? (sorry if i missed you talking about it earlier)


----------



## IndigoClaudia

Lol i need to reread this. It's only 69 (*laughs*) pages long so it shouldn't be too hard.


----------



## Herbe

i feel like i'm a bad townie cause I don't go back and reread enough


----------



## IndigoClaudia

Herbe said:


> i feel like i'm a bad townie cause I don't go back and reread enough


me too imao


----------



## kyeugh

i will never in my life read back or take notes
i will lose the game for town due to this and still not learn my lesson


----------



## Bluwiikoon

mewtini said:


> Bluwiikoon said:
> 
> 
> 
> So far I feel that VM's theories on kyeugh make sense, yet the disputes against VM's theories also make sense
> 
> 
> 
> when you get a chance could you talk more about this? (sorry if i missed you talking about it earlier)
Click to expand...

Yea no worries, I haven't said too much so far! Like, clearly taking the statistics out of context isn't necessarily indicative of anything, and prior to this I was feeling pretty good about kyeugh regardless (especially since she's one of your hypoclears, right?). It just makes me feel a bit more uncertain now, and I can't help but read obvious wolf jokes as ploys to deflect suspicion  Especially since, well, the jokes are happening just after people have voiced suspicions about her? Sorry kyeugh, no jokes allowed!

If kyeugh _were_ to flip red at any point, I'd have a keen interest on pushing people who were prominent/came out to talk during the statistics/kyeugh debate (such as Butterfree).


----------



## IndigoClaudia

kyeugh said:


> i will never in my life read back or take notes
> i will lose the game for town due to this and still not learn my lesson


Relatable.


----------



## IndigoClaudia

Bluwiikoon said:


> If kyeugh _were_ to flip red at any point, I'd have a keen interest on pushing people who were prominent/came out to talk during the statistics/kyeugh debate (such as Butterfree).


Announcement to all cops (if there are any): Please check kyeugh tonight.


----------



## Bluwiikoon

My goal isn't to win, but to make people think I'm cool and funny


----------



## IndigoClaudia

Bluwiikoon said:


> My goal isn't to win, but to make people think I'm cool and funny





IndigoEmmy said:


> Relatable.


----------



## IndigoClaudia

Bluwiikoon said:


> but to make people think I'm cool and funny


Don't worry blu, we already think you are! :D


----------



## mewtini

i think i just need to stop talking about this but like. i just don't really get it lol. the statistics debate isn't airtight, like, at all and i still think a lot of the argument around it was way more about the principle of the push and less about someone trying to cover for kyeugh


Bluwiikoon said:


> Especially since, well, the jokes are happening just after people have voiced suspicions about her?


she's been memey all game

also, yeah, she's my n1 hypocheck


----------



## mewtini

like, of course, when people flip wolf we look into their interactions with others. but i personally feel that debating the nature of the push is not ultra AI


----------



## Herbe

okay off topic but is kyeugh pronounced like Q? or like, kai-uh


----------



## IndigoClaudia

Herbe said:


> okay off topic but is kyeugh pronounced like Q? or like, kai-uh


Oh i always imagined it was pronounced either like
key-ugg
or Kay yeah ugh


----------



## mewtini

i believe q


----------



## Herbe

mewtini said:


> i believe q


makes sense tbh


----------



## mewtini

btw bluwiikoon i'm sorry if i seemed like i was coming down hard on you specifically. this will def not look fantastic for me if kyeugh does flip red but i am kind of frustrated by the push and would much rather talk about like ... other people, especially those who are sitting at nulls, and it's kind of :/ that discussion is halting for this one line of speculation. and there's not really a world where i vote for her today based on this argument when i'm TRing her (unless something else happens obvi)


----------



## IndigoClaudia

Should we just try and hang send kyeugh to the basement today?


----------



## mewtini

... why?


----------



## IndigoClaudia

mewtini said:


> ... why?


I'm not gonna actually quote him, but to quote seshas, 



> it's never a good idea to abstain.


----------



## mewtini

that doesn't really answer my question
why _decide _to lynch skylar with like 2 days left instead of. talking. about everyone as per usual


----------



## mewtini

like i'm not pro-abstain ftr


----------



## IndigoClaudia

mewtini said:


> like i'm not pro-abstain ftr


Like we've been saying, she is a lil' suspicious. If we can't find anyone else to hang, she'd be a good target. :D notice i haven't voted for her yet.


----------



## mewtini

i mean like. if it works out such that she ends up being a wagon then ofc i'll reevaluate. but i just don't register the probability thing as suspicious, or at least not more suspicious than the people i pointed out in my list who lurked through EoD and i don't see the value of saying "ok let's just declare her a wagon" when the day doesn't end until the 7th. i should stop talking about this/i know i sound defensive but somehow no other thread of discussion has come up and i feel seriously weird about the State of Affairs, i just don't know how to read people off of this scenario but i feel like there's some wolf influence in here even if i don't think it's VM

as i said earlier i'm not opposed to talking about it because i want to talk about _everything_, which is my point. halting discussion for something that imo isn't close to damning evidence feels bad to me

btw emmy can you answer my question from earlier


----------



## IndigoClaudia

mewtini said:


> btw emmy can you answer my question from earlier


i forgot already which one.


----------



## IndigoClaudia

mewtini said:


> why _decide _to lynch skylar with like 2 days left instead of. talking. about everyone as per usual


lol i just meant we should talk about her as well.


----------



## mewtini

mewtini said:


> IndigoEmmy said:
> 
> 
> 
> Hey guys i no longer suspect seshas after the events of earlier
> 
> 
> 
> lol
> actually one of the q's on my list. in #1000 you said that you were just being 'petty' when you first voted for seshas but later told m+7 like 10 posts later that if you were going to vote for anyone, it would be her. can you talk more abt that?
Click to expand...


----------



## IndigoClaudia

mewtini said:


> mewtini said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> IndigoEmmy said:
> 
> 
> 
> Hey guys i no longer suspect seshas after the events of earlier
> 
> 
> 
> lol
> actually one of the q's on my list. in #1000 you said that you were just being 'petty' when you first voted for seshas but later told m+7 like 10 posts later that if you were going to vote for anyone, it would be her. can you talk more abt that?
> 
> Click to expand...
Click to expand...

I do feel like she's kinda just trolling us and there isn't actual evidence she is townaligned but i'm probably overthinking it.

Also i don't trust her because of last game lol


----------



## Bluwiikoon

mewtini said:


> btw bluwiikoon i'm sorry if i seemed like i was coming down hard on you specifically. this will def not look fantastic for me if kyeugh does flip red but i am kind of frustrated by the push and would much rather talk about like ... other people, especially those who are sitting at nulls, and it's kind of :/ that discussion is halting for this one line of speculation. and there's not really a world where i vote for her today based on this argument when i'm TRing her (unless something else happens obvi)


No worries! :D The nature of the game is that uhhhh disagreements happen I think! I'll probably back off from kyeugh for now, give time for more discussion to happen 

Whole lot of lurkers we're not hearing too much from...


----------



## Bluwiikoon

Theory: All the letters in kyeugh's username are silent except for the y, because Why would it be any other way ^^


----------



## IndigoClaudia

Bluwiikoon said:


> Whole lot of lurkers we're not hearing too much from...


*whistle*


----------



## Bluwiikoon

mewtini said:


> btw bluwiikoon i'm sorry if i seemed like i was coming down hard on you specifically.


It's not you, it's me!


----------



## rari_teh

Herbe said:


> okay off topic but is kyeugh pronounced like Q? or like, kai-uh


this is another of those cases where I settle on a pronunciation for someone’s username and don’t even consider I might be wrong smh
I’ve always read kyeugh as ‘Q’ and Eifie as ‘aye-fee’
now Bluwiikoon I have no idea how to pronounce – is the 〈ii〉 read as ‘ee’ or as ‘I’?


IndigoEmmy said:


> mewtini said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> mewtini said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> IndigoEmmy said:
> 
> 
> 
> Hey guys i no longer suspect seshas after the events of earlier
> 
> 
> 
> lol
> actually one of the q's on my list. in #1000 you said that you were just being 'petty' when you first voted for seshas but later told m+7 like 10 posts later that if you were going to vote for anyone, it would be her. can you talk more abt that?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I do feel like she's kinda just trolling us and there isn't actual evidence she is townaligned but i'm probably overthinking it.
> 
> Also i don't trust her because of last game lol
Click to expand...

uuuuh you know she died right


----------



## I liek Squirtles

Bluwiikoon said:


> @I liek Squirtles Hi buddy! ^^ Haven't seen you in thread for a little while, it's great to hear from you! Just wondering, what in particular made you feel strongly inclined to post your thoughts about the Ultracool and kyeugh theories?


I feel Ultracool and kyeugh were getting the most scrutiny in toDay and I wanted to contribute to that discussion, particularly because I found them a little flimsy. I still do ftr (keyguh moreso than Ultracool). Also I wanted to post just because like... I hadn't posted in a hot second, haha


----------



## Bluwiikoon

Bluwiikoon is Bluicune! Blue Suicune :D


----------



## Vipera Magnifica

fwiw don't take my "statistics" post as the main argument against skylar, it's not really meant to be any kind of hard evidence nor is it anything less than a highly simplified model, it was more just me thinking "what are the chances someone would randomly vote for 3 townies from this setup" and then actually trying to _calculate_ those chances as best I could. the real thing that made me suspicious of her is the timing of her votes, and I have a hunch that several of the 6 mafia members are among the most active players

i'm only like 70% certain she's mafia at this point, but honestly i'd like to hear the reasons so many of you _don't_ think she's mafia. so far all i'm hearing is "good vibes" but considering this is the woman that played many of you like a fiddle in tvtropes mafia, you'd _think _people would be more wary of her ability to feign towniness


----------



## rari_teh

I liek Squirtles said:


> Bluwiikoon said:
> 
> 
> 
> @I liek Squirtles Hi buddy! ^^ Haven't seen you in thread for a little while, it's great to hear from you! Just wondering, what in particular made you feel strongly inclined to post your thoughts about the Ultracool and kyeugh theories?
> 
> 
> 
> I feel Ultracool and kyeugh were getting the most scrutiny in toDay and I wanted to contribute to that discussion, particularly because I found them a little flimsy. I still do ftr (keyguh moreso than Ultracool). Also I wanted to post just because like... I hadn't posted in a hot second, haha
Click to expand...

do you have thoughts about other people in general?


----------



## rari_teh

Vipera Magnifica said:


> i'm only like 70% certain she's mafia at this point, but honestly i'd like to hear the reasons so many of you _don't_ think she's mafia. so far all i'm hearing is "good vibes" but considering this is the woman that played many of you like a fiddle in tvtropes mafia, you'd _think _people would be more wary of her ability to feign towniness


most of my ‘good vibes’ abt kyeugh are based on three things:
1. she’s acting very, very differently from her tvt self;
2. Eifie specifically said (in graveyard chat iirc?) that town!kyeugh never stops memeing, which is checking out;
3. she had a golden opportunity to push on me and mewtini right after the trebekkening and she let us go when the three of us’s opinions were laid out more clearly

I reckon I might still be wrong about her, but I’m like 75% convinced she ain’t scum


----------



## mewtini

wait VM can you talk more about other reasons you think she’s mafia? aside from stats


----------



## mewtini

also i mentioned this in my longpost but why would skylar flipping red implicate rari and not me


----------



## mewtini

also i don’t think talking about metagame is just “good vibes”


----------



## mewtini

wait i'm stupid sorry. i totally didn't see you mention the other things in your post. ignore that bit :p


----------



## Vipera Magnifica

rari_teh said:


> 2. Eifie specifically said (in graveyard chat iirc?) that town!kyeugh never stops memeing, which is checking out;


are you saying that mafia!kyeugh wasn't memeing? i'm pretty sure kyeugh memes regardless of alignment


----------



## mewtini

she fucked around way more in tvt than she is now


----------



## mewtini

IndigoEmmy said:


> I do feel like she's kinda just trolling us and there isn't actual evidence she is townaligned but i'm probably overthinking it.
> 
> Also i don't trust her because of last game lol


was this in reply to my question ... ? or is this about skylar or something


----------



## Vipera Magnifica

mewtini, do you mind sharing why you TR kyeugh?


----------



## rari_teh

Vipera Magnifica said:


> rari_teh said:
> 
> 
> 
> 2. Eifie specifically said (in graveyard chat iirc?) that town!kyeugh never stops memeing, which is checking out;
> 
> 
> 
> are you saying that mafia!kyeugh wasn't memeing? i'm pretty sure kyeugh memes regardless of alignment
Click to expand...

she wasn't memeing a lot in my book, no
she was, like, at most the third or fourth memeiest player in that game. also she wasn't half as laid back as she is rn


----------



## mewtini

mewtini said:


> she fucked around way more in tvt than she is now


**less in tvt


----------



## kyeugh

it is indeed pronounced Q
before my username was difficult to pronounce so it just got shorted to Q a lot; now my username is literally Q but lengthened and harder to read.  i think if i just keep doing this for the next thousand years i will eventually arrive at peak efficiency


----------



## mewtini

Vipera Magnifica said:


> mewtini, do you mind sharing why you TR kyeugh?





mewtini said:


> since she seemed very focused on how the whole thing impacted her optics. but meh
> 
> 
> 
> skimming over d1 tvt w!skylar makes me think that she wouldn't make this type of read (one that's small but makes sense) as a wolf? rari was overall more aggressive than me during all that than i was, so i think it makes sense for skylar to read me like that ...
> also her 901 ("there's pretty much no one i don't kind of want to give an extra day to") didn't feel as agendaed as she did in tvt iirc. and 746 feels like a post that she would've just phrased as "idk why, i just feel bad" in the last game.
> overall skylar isn't really throwing, like. shade that goes beyond normal pushing whereas she was pretty heavy-handed in sussing seshas/rari in earlygame tvt in a way that she's really not now (she also didn't previously go back and bother revising her reads during d1/d2 in the way that she has here, i think).
> 
> i don't really feel like reading more tvtropes tonight but i feel alright here
Click to expand...

i can elaborate on this more if you want, i posted that just to get this out at like 4am or something lmao. it is admittedly metaheavy. kyeugh is also my hypocheck


----------



## kyeugh

i have a primary source telling me kyeugh is innocent

not related but i'm honestly still more bothered by the rnp interaction than i think i probably should be?  it keeps popping back up in my head


----------



## mewtini

i still think it's weird that no one's fully shown up to propose we talk about anyone else, and my gut feel is strongly that the lack of resistance from anyone but me/rari/kind of ILS isn't a great sign (the brief ultracool aside doesn't really count to me, that's an ez push either way). feels like we're just being allowed to go down this path tbh


----------



## mewtini

what are you thinking about it?


----------



## kyeugh

i honestly don't know?  i'm pretty sure logically it means nothing but also it feels weird and keeps re entering my thoughts


----------



## Vipera Magnifica

I mean honestly I'd love to hear from someone who isn't rari or mewtini about why they think skylar is town. Maybe then I'd drop it... for now.


----------



## mewtini

could you answer the other thing i asked about me vs rari being w/w with kyeugh


----------



## rari_teh

mewtini’s right, we’re stuck in a pointless loop that will lead us nowhere tbh

tbqf I’ve been feeling uneasy about ILS for quite some time. he seems super evadey whenever we try to get his opinion on anything that hasn’t been heavily talked about previously, and while I know that he was kinda acting like that in TVT iirc and he was, well, our doctor, I feel like there’s a higher-than-average chance of him being mafia.

what are y’all’s opinions?


----------



## rari_teh

also wrt rnp I’m still chalking that one up to rnp being rnp, though I know how dangerous this kind of thinking may be


----------



## kyeugh

i kind of feel for some reason that this is kind of just how he plays but i'm not really sure
like i said early in the game ils's meta is kind of a blind spot for me?  so i feel like i'm kind of in the dark here and he might be something i need to look at more closely.  i've mostly gotten okay feelings from his posting though, it all seems pretty reasonable to me and he's been critical of the thread's direction which i like.  that said he hasn't done much to change the direction really, so he could easily just be scum flying under the radar i guess...?  i don't know, i don't really get specifically bad feelings from him but i suppose he's tied with butterfree as far as like, not leaving much of an impression at all goes.


----------



## IndigoClaudia

mewtini said:


> IndigoEmmy said:
> 
> 
> 
> I do feel like she's kinda just trolling us and there isn't actual evidence she is townaligned but i'm probably overthinking it.
> 
> Also i don't trust her because of last game lol
> 
> 
> 
> was this in reply to my question ... ? or is this about skylar or something
Click to expand...

in response


----------



## mewtini

i guess this doesn't matter but i'm confused by the answer you gave (i thought it was skylar bc you answered in present tense) - why wouldn't you have trusted her post-tvt? she was town


----------



## mewtini

i feel fine about ILS, need to think about him more and am afraid of tunneling him again


----------



## rari_teh

mewtini said:


> am afraid of tunneling him again


this is exactly why I didn’t voice my suspicion earlier btw, while I didn’t hop on the original ILSwagon I feel like I would’ve sussed him given the right circumstances
the right circumstances being having no seshas to sheep and no otter to tunnel


----------



## Vipera Magnifica

mewtini said:


> could you answer the other thing i asked about me vs rari being w/w with kyeugh


i think you are town for Reasons™, though admittedly i'm a bit less sure than i was before
you're acting almost identical to how you were acting in tvt mafia and that seems harder to fake for someone who is new to it
also something else i won't elaborate on

if mr. ultracool were to flip mafia you'd be free of suspicion in my eyes


----------



## Tofu

I'm wondering why the same small handful of people are dominating the discussion. Boredom is a valid reason, but I see more investment in this. I read that much investment as suspicious, because it gives the power to a smaller group of people who are able to influence others by just being more vocal, which seems like a mafia-y thing to do. I would like to hear from some others who have managed to follow the discussion.

There are 17 people alive.

I'm side-eying Mewtini and Skylar at this point.

Btw, why would posting slightly or more or less memes mean anything lmao


----------



## mewtini

Tofu said:


> Btw, why would posting slightly or more or less memes mean anything lmao


because it would indicate a different playstyle than skylar's approach as mafia


----------



## mewtini

Tofu said:


> I would like to hear from some others who have managed to follow the discussion.


what people who have been vocal but have solicited other people's/lurker feedback


----------



## kyeugh

tbh i think if y’all think i’m suspicious just vote me because it seems like the premise is mostly my voting yesterday and “but she was mafia and looked towny last time” which are not really things that are going to change with discussion. all i can do is kind of keep playing and this is a dumb place for conversation to stall. but if i get lynched it’s going to be huge loltown

i kind of want to hear more from bfree but understand if she’s busy. i think her posts have been fairly reasonable so far but like when dont i think that. i’m also kind of curious where keldeo is looking right now. and it would be good to get a reads list from ils if possible. is it rude to tag people


----------



## mewtini

_keldeoooooooo_
anyway at risk of sounding like i'm purely self-defending, i think hedging is wayyy wolfier than having intense investment in the game. even though by rule of thumb mafia is usually present among the actives


----------



## mewtini

rari_teh said:


> what are y’all’s opinions?


my opinion is that it's not me, it's you <3


----------



## rari_teh

mewtini said:


> rari_teh said:
> 
> 
> 
> what are y’all’s opinions?
> 
> 
> 
> my opinion is that it's not me, it's you <3
Click to expand...

can’t argue with that. it’s not you, it’s me :3


----------



## kyeugh

i have a sneaking suspicion it is neither of you


----------



## mewtini

how dare you!?


----------



## Vipera Magnifica

mewtini said:


> Tofu said:
> 
> 
> 
> Btw, why would posting slightly or more or less memes mean anything lmao
> 
> 
> 
> because it would indicate a different playstyle than skylar's approach as mafia
Click to expand...

我以中文發布，而其他遊戲中則沒有。因此，我是清白的。


----------



## mewtini

anyone wanna start tagging people tbh


----------



## Herbe

sure mewt. i want to hear from @Butterfree , she's a strong TR for me and I value her opinion.


----------



## mewtini

@Keldeo we need you bro ...
glad for bfree tag tbh


----------



## mewtini

herbe can you talk about your butterfree read? i townlean her but am wary of TRing outright since she hasnt posted much


----------



## Herbe

mewtini said:


> herbe can you talk about your butterfree read? i townlean her but am wary of TRing outright since she hasnt posted much


i mean she's also my n1 hypocop clear but she doesn't seem agendaed, and her EoD posting stood out to me as seeming genuinely towny. if she weren't my n1 hypocop I'd just townlean but I'm choosing to be confident on this one (and you mewt!)


----------



## mewtini

forgot you copchecked, sorry! i agree


----------



## Trebek

So i havent posted in a while and have been going back and rereading, most of my thoughts are still jumbled but i wanted to quickly give my 2 cents on the kyeugh discussion before i go and write other things.

Frankly, i don't really see the point of directly comparing her play this game with her play last game, at least in a vacuum (i was guilty of doing this read D1, but after thinking about it i dont really like the way i was thinking about it)

if kyeugh is town, she would most likely want to switch things up, in order to avoid the sentiment of "well she was scum last game and is playing the exact same way now!" but w!kyeugh would likely think the exact same thing.

I'm not saying that we can't derive reads from her style, but i think a direct comparison to tvt would be a red herring.

Also, this was already discussed but i want to second the notion that the statistical analysis of the voting shouldnt imply anything, and frankly idk how i feel about it even being brought up in the first place (but im not going to spin that into a scumread just yet, bc i can understand the sentiment)


----------



## mewtini

i don't think your meta would do a 180 esp if you're someone who's played a fair number of games tbh. i think metagame matters some amount, but that's opinion; i'm actually increasingly bothered by the lack of resistance that i keep bringing up


----------



## Trebek

mewtini said:


> esp if you're someone who's played a fair number of games tbh


when writing the post i forgot that more than 2 mafia games existed in the universe. whoops.

although tbh, im not sure what would inspire w!kyeugh to support the killing of someone she had voted for, because of this exact dialogue


----------



## kyeugh

Trebek said:


> if kyeugh is town, she would most likely want to switch things up, in order to avoid the sentiment of "well she was scum last game and is playing the exact same way now!" but w!kyeugh would likely think the exact same thing.


fwiw i’m not really making any effort to play differently. i think those differences just arise naturally bc as wolf i’m trying to exert control over the situation, and could do so thanks to my (woefully incomplete) alignment knowledge. made it a lot easier to confidently form “reads” and whatnot. whereas here i’m just kind of vibing and rolling with shit as it comes, i guess not really trying quite as hard? which of course opens me up to fucking around a bit more because i’m not really trying to achieve or orchestrate anything, i’m just posting my brain vomit. obviously you can take that or leave it since it’s a bit wifomy but basically i’m not really putting that much thought into how i appear this game bc idrc. i don’t have to lead


----------



## kyeugh

kyeugh said:


> i don’t have to lead


not implying anything about last game here, mostly just that i don’t have to take as active or conscientious or strictly agendaed a role here


----------



## mewtini

kyeugh said:


> (woefully incomplete)


l o l


----------



## kyeugh

mewtini said:


> i don't think your meta would do a 180 esp if you're someone who's played a fair number of games tbh. i think metagame matters some amount, but that's opinion; i'm actually increasingly bothered by the lack of resistance that i keep bringing up


tbf i don’t think there hasn’t been resistance, obv you/rari are pushing back and bfree/ils have expressed doubt too. i think mostly it’s just not a big deal, i’m not really in peril
would be nice to look at other folks though


----------



## rari_teh

btw, trebek, now that you’re here, what are your thoughts on i liek squirtles?


----------



## RedneckPhoenix

*kyeugh*


----------



## kyeugh

i too vote my hypoclears


----------



## RedneckPhoenix

it was a bait


----------



## RedneckPhoenix

you fell for it, fool.


----------



## Trebek

After rereading ILS stuff, im still sorta Head Empty, but i find myself agreeing with a lot of what he's said, especially looking back on the trebekkening (while obv i know that the thy about both keldeo and i being wolf isnt true, its still a point that i objectively agree with). I've dialed back my rari/mewt suspicion since then, but his having the same suspicion doesn't necessarily strike me as a bad thing, bc it was what i was thinking at the time too. similarly, i haven't really gotten any negative vibes from him so far this day phase


----------



## qenya

Bluwiikoon said:


> Yea no worries, I haven't said too much so far! Like, clearly taking the statistics out of context isn't necessarily indicative of anything, and prior to this I was feeling pretty good about kyeugh regardless (especially since she's one of your hypoclears, right?). It just makes me feel a bit more uncertain now, and I can't help but read obvious wolf jokes as ploys to deflect suspicion  Especially since, well, the jokes are happening just after people have voiced suspicions about her? Sorry kyeugh, no jokes allowed!


This is pretty much how I feel as well, and considerably more eloquent than the way I was going to explain it. I don't really know what to think any more, haha.

I agree, though, that this doesn't seem like a vein of conversation that's likely to yield any more fruit. Even if we later decide to lynch kyeugh after all, it would be better to spend the remaining ~40 hours trying to find some other leads as well.

The people I most want to hear more from are Butterfree, Superjolt and Emmy. The first two are reasonably straightforward (people who haven't been behaving unusually but also haven't been around a great deal yet); for Emmy, the source of my concern is that she seems to be here, and even posting, but not really engaging with the game. Like, several people have asked her questions now and she's just ignored them. It could just be (and probably just is) unwillingness to participate for any combination of {lack of time, lack of interest, lack of experience}, but would feel more comfortable if she could say that herself.



Vipera Magnifica said:


> I have a hunch that several of the 6 mafia members are among the most active players


this is a good snake tbh. With how badly we screwed up yesterday, it would not surprise me at all if there were a couple of mafia influencing the direction of the conversation and the formation of the leading wagons. (This is another reason why the kyeugh thing unnerves me.)

I'll have a glance back shortly and see if I can scrape together anything about the people who _have_ been talking a lot.


----------



## Trebek

kokorico said:


> for Emmy, the source of my concern is that she seems to be here, and even posting, but not really engaging with the game.


this is actually something i was thinking of myself, but had not figured out how to word properly


----------



## kyeugh

RedneckPhoenix said:


> it was a bait


----------



## kyeugh

i agree about emmy but i’m not really sure what i want to hear from her other than like. Thoughts. generally


----------



## rari_teh

must say I also agree about emmy
I’ll take one for the team and be That Person™: @IndigoEmmy could you post your reads in general? a rough tierlist would be much appreciated


----------



## mewtini

cant fully pop in now but i've been (pretty transparently lol) wondering about emmy as well


----------



## Keldeo

mewtini said:


> @Keldeo we need you bro ...


Hi! I won a kind of exhausting game on another site early this morning and I'm still riding high, haha. I'll try to get caught up by tonight - ping me if you have any specific questions?


----------



## qenya

kokorico said:


> a vein of conversation that's likely to yield any more fruit


er, to mix metaphors horribly!

also, since we're talking about ILS, I kind of feel like he looks a lot townier than most of us at the moment. While he hasn't done a lot of posting in comparison to some people *cough*mewt*cough*, he has actually contributed stuff and not just nodded along with the consensus. Like his dubiousness about the possibility of Mr. Ultracool being mafia, and his contributions to flavour spec (which, yeah, I know he can contribute objective facts about the source material regardless of his alignment, but if the flavour is useful at all I would expect the mafia to be trying to _distract_ us from it, not _calling it out_. sorry. end rant).


----------



## IndigoClaudia

rari_teh said:


> must say I also agree about emmy
> I’ll take one for the team and be That Person™: @IndigoEmmy could you post your reads in general? a rough tierlist would be much appreciated


Tierlist huh. lol gimme a sec.


----------



## IndigoClaudia

Tierlist

*Scummy?*
Kyeugh

*Friendly (town)*
Bluwiikoon
Mewtini

*Idk*
Everyone else


----------



## rari_teh

-_-


----------



## mewtini

kokorico said:


> *cough*mewt*cough


i'm sorry......


----------



## Trebek

mewtini said:


> kokorico said:
> 
> 
> 
> *cough*mewt*cough
> 
> 
> 
> i'm sorry......
Click to expand...

not allowed


----------



## Trebek

IndigoEmmy said:


> Tierlist
> 
> *Scummy?*
> Kyeugh
> 
> *Friendly (town)*
> Bluwiikoon
> Mewtini


Do you have particular reasons and/or references for why those 3 are ranked?


----------



## mewtini

ok i feel legit kind of guilty. sorry if i'm overpowering the thread. i have a lot of thoughts and also i always hit post early so i end up with more multipost chains than intended. :|

anyway i'll force myself to vote somewhere. new maf game new me >:) *emmy*


----------



## Trebek

mewtini said:


> ok i feel legit kind of guilty. sorry if i'm overpowering the thread. i have a lot of thoughts and also i always hit post early so i end up with more multipost chains than intended. :|
> 
> anyway i'll force myself to vote somewhere. new maf game new me >:) *emmy*


don't feel guilty at all! the more content the better :^)

and yeah, i suppose i should actually follow up with my sentiments instead of just posting thoughts and then not commiting to anything. i'm gonna park my vote on *emmy* for now: would love to hear more about her reads


----------



## IndigoClaudia

Trebek said:


> IndigoEmmy said:
> 
> 
> 
> Tierlist
> 
> *Scummy?*
> Kyeugh
> 
> *Friendly (town)*
> Bluwiikoon
> Mewtini
> 
> 
> 
> Do you have particular reasons and/or references for why those 3 are ranked?
Click to expand...

nope.


----------



## IndigoClaudia

Trebek said:


> mewtini said:
> 
> 
> 
> ok i feel legit kind of guilty. sorry if i'm overpowering the thread. i have a lot of thoughts and also i always hit post early so i end up with more multipost chains than intended. :|
> 
> anyway i'll force myself to vote somewhere. new maf game new me >:) *emmy*
> 
> 
> 
> don't feel guilty at all! the more content the better :^)
> 
> and yeah, i suppose i should actually follow up with my sentiments instead of just posting thoughts and then not commiting to anything. i'm gonna park my vote on *emmy* for now: would love to hear more about her reads
Click to expand...

You really don't want to lynch me. Trust me.


----------



## kyeugh

IndigoEmmy said:


> Trust me.


we’re trying


----------



## mewtini

i dont want to lynch anyone tbh ... :C


----------



## kyeugh

mewtini said:


> i dont want to lynch anyone tbh ... :C


 not even the mafia? kinda scummy tbh


----------



## IndigoClaudia

Well i have to go now farewell friends.


----------



## Trebek

mewtini said:


> i dont want to lynch anyone tbh ... :C


we aren't tho! we're just putting them in time-out :)


----------



## qenya

mewtini said:


> ok i feel legit kind of guilty. sorry if i'm overpowering the thread. i have a lot of thoughts and also i always hit post early so i end up with more multipost chains than intended. :|


not in the slightest! I'm sorry, it was kind of an insensitive joke, meant to be about how you were carrying the conversation but it kinda flopped. You're fine, really, please carry on as much as you like!


----------



## rari_teh

y’know what? I’m vibing. mewt is right, what should I be afraid of.

*IndigoEmmy*


----------



## mewtini

kokorico said:


> I'm sorry, it was kind of an insensitive joke


no don't be! it was funny, i'm realizing that maybe i'm kind of touchy today hahaha. i said in tvtropes that if i don't force myself to post everything, i just get nervous and retreat into the background, and that's definitely what i'm trying to do this game as well :T


----------



## mewtini

in re ILS: i'm going through his post history and i think i haven't changed much from the read i gave in my longpost, i.e. "he's a blind spot for me, i guess i'm neither town nor scumleaning." if i HAD to choose in vacuum, i guess townlean, but among the thread actives i still am heavily townreading a lot of them, so ... idk. i have no clue how he would play as mafia, and my time with him in tvt didn't prepare me that well for this :p

i said earlier that i thought pointing out his doubts about the ultracool/kyeugh as possible mafia theory would be a weird/mildly silly place for a wolf to pop their head in, and the v/v or w/w theorizing he did about keldeo and trebek is actual contribution at least. maybe i sounded like i was  about the mere fact that he engaged in flavorspec, it was more that i thought the d1 flavor was like ... pretty spare lol and i kind of doubted/doubt that there's actually much to be found there, so i immediately felt weird that his only posting initially was about that


----------



## Butterfree

kokorico said:


> Like his dubiousness about the possibility of Mr. Ultracool being mafia, and his contributions to flavour spec (which, yeah, I know he can contribute objective facts about the source material regardless of his alignment, but if the flavour is useful at all I would expect the mafia to be trying to _distract_ us from it, not _calling it out_. sorry. end rant).


What do you think about my thought from previously in the game about how ILS was trying to direct us towards thinking the mafia might be Mr. Mistoffelees rather than the more obvious Macavity? That still strikes me as pretty funny and like an effort to mislead, though a bit confusingly obviously so if he is mafia. @I liek Squirtles Sorry, if you've responded about this before I think I missed it - why did the flavor make you think of Mistoffelees over what Macavity's doing for the entire movie?

At the moment my reads are something like this:

*Hypocop clear*
kyeugh

*Would be very surprised if mafia*
mewtini (already mentioned, but she seems extremely at ease and exactly like the way she was playing TVT, where she was not _technically_ town but I truly believe she was playing as if she were)
Bluwiikoon (agree with everyone else that his posting just feels incredibly pure)
M Plus 7 (asks good questions, responds naturally, feels very at ease; I say this not having any meta, but I get very good vibes)

*Leaning town*
rari_teh (feels like her TVT self, I think? Overall playing pretty inquisitively and naturally)
Tofu (would kind of like to read again, but I like her thoughts today; feels agendaless and makes good observations)
Mr. Ultracool (not a lot of content, but also just feels like he played in TVT)
RedneckPhoenix (okay this is purely a vague hunch, I should reread his actual posts and don't really remember what's making me feel like he's town, but)
IndigoEmmy (kiiiiind of different from TVT, but also not really how I'd expect mafia!Indigo to play, and also Reasons(tm))

*Null because I fear their scumgame*
Keldeo (his posting feels towny but I'm extremely wary that he feels super towny when mafia)
kokorico (solid-feeling thoughts, but e played scum really well in TVT and I think e could fake it)

*Null because I have not properly managed to form an opinion and probably need to reread them*
Trebek (I don't really feel like I got anything out of the push by Keldeo? He's posted plenty, it's just kind of gone in one eye and out the other for some reason and doesn't properly stick; this happens a lot at the start of a game playing for the first time with people I'm not familiar with. Tofu would be the same except I managed to actually notice some posts by her when catching up earlier)
Superjolt (I don't remember what he's posted at all)

*The vaguest of bad vibes*
Herbe (lingering kneejerk D1 "he sure likes to remind us how town he is", but hasn't really given me any bad feelings otherwise)

*Maybe scummy??*
VM (I feel weird about the statistical push on kyeugh and he's pushing kind of hard for particular lynches and particular associations? But then again it doesn't really feel like his TVT game, where he was scum, I think?)
ILS (mostly the misleading flavor talk, to be honest, I don't know why I'm so stuck on this and it still feels like a weird mafia move but it Bugs Me)

I don't really have any firm scumreads at the moment. I want to do some rereading and figure out some thoughts. I've been preoccupied with this one-shot contest I was judging whose results were just posted, but hopefully over the weekend I can read back a bit and get a better grasp on something. In particular I haven't really looked back at exactly how voting went yesterday which is probably a good idea.


----------



## mewtini

Butterfree said:


> Trebek (I don't really feel like I got anything out of the push by Keldeo?


yeah, i thought trebek came off of it kind of null (though i know kel read trebek's reaction as towny) and i'm under the impression that my take on it isn't a hugely popular one


----------



## mewtini

Butterfree said:


> *Maybe scummy??*
> VM (I feel weird about the statistical push on kyeugh and he's pushing kind of hard for particular lynches and particular associations? But then again it doesn't really feel like his TVT game, where he was scum, I think?)
> ILS (mostly the misleading flavor talk, to be honest, I don't know why I'm so stuck on this and it still feels like a weird mafia move but it Bugs Me)


i have the same weird feelings too but i can't tell if they're pinging me as actual wolves or merely as anti-town? like i think VM is tunneling but when he was scum he lay pretty low ... wrt ILS for now i'm just siding with "that flavorspec seems like a weird mafia move" and figuring i'll sort it later


----------



## rari_teh

I’m hemming and hawing about posting this, but fuck it

I’ve been thinking about VM’s posts lately and I have this increasing impression that he might be an alien
seriously, hear me out. he posted this in response to mewtini toDay:



Vipera Magnifica said:


> i think you are town for Reasons™, though admittedly i'm a bit less sure than i was before
> you're acting almost identical to how you were acting in tvt mafia and that seems harder to fake for someone who is new to it
> also something else i won't elaborate on


I feel like this is unnecessary copbait that serves pretty much no purpose other than raising mafia eyebrows tbh
couple this with semi-constant shitstirring and his fierce push on a kyeughwagon and you have the perfect plan for an alien win
like. let’s say VM’s wagoncrafting succeeds, kyeugh is lynched and flips green. who would automatically be sussed by the entire town toMorrow?

god this is going to look terrible for me if kyeugh ever flips red, but I think I’m confident enough to believe she won’t


----------



## Herbe

rari_teh said:


> I’m hemming and hawing about posting this, but fuck it
> 
> I’ve been thinking about VM’s posts lately and I have this increasing impression that he might be an alien
> seriously, hear me out. he posted this in response to mewtini toDay:
> 
> 
> 
> Vipera Magnifica said:
> 
> 
> 
> i think you are town for Reasons™, though admittedly i'm a bit less sure than i was before
> you're acting almost identical to how you were acting in tvt mafia and that seems harder to fake for someone who is new to it
> also something else i won't elaborate on
> 
> 
> 
> I feel like this is unnecessary copbait that serves pretty much no purpose other than raising mafia eyebrows tbh
> couple this with semi-constant shitstirring and his fierce push on a kyeughwagon and you have the perfect plan for an alien win
> like. let’s say VM’s wagoncrafting succeeds, kyeugh is lynched and flips green. who would automatically be sussed by the entire town toMorrow?
> 
> god this is going to look terrible for me if kyeugh ever flips red, but I think I’m confident enough to believe she won’t
Click to expand...

not to tinfoil hat, but i strangely agree with you..... i'm interested in the theory, at least

also an *emmy* vote sounds fine to me right now. i don't mind the emmy/ultracool wagon split, but I do want to note that I'm not 100% convinced it's not v/v  :/// alienspec kinda weirds me out of a vm wagon though. i feel like everyone has kinda Meh reasons for townreading VM from what I've seen so far.

yes my opinions fluctuate and what about it


----------



## Keldeo

Just finished catching up, gonna compile thoughts and stuff in a bit!



rari_teh said:


> I’m hemming and hawing about posting this, but fuck it
> 
> I’ve been thinking about VM’s posts lately and I have this increasing impression that he might be an alien
> seriously, hear me out. he posted this in response to mewtini toDay:
> 
> 
> 
> Vipera Magnifica said:
> 
> 
> 
> i think you are town for Reasons™, though admittedly i'm a bit less sure than i was before
> you're acting almost identical to how you were acting in tvt mafia and that seems harder to fake for someone who is new to it
> also something else i won't elaborate on
> 
> 
> 
> I feel like this is unnecessary copbait that serves pretty much no purpose other than raising mafia eyebrows tbh
> couple this with semi-constant shitstirring and his fierce push on a kyeughwagon and you have the perfect plan for an alien win
> like. let’s say VM’s wagoncrafting succeeds, kyeugh is lynched and flips green. who would automatically be sussed by the entire town toMorrow?
> 
> god this is going to look terrible for me if kyeugh ever flips red, but I think I’m confident enough to believe she won’t
Click to expand...

Sorry, I'm pretty confused by this. I don't think that post would make him any more of a target than anyone else who's given a hypocop result? And I think the only things from him that I'd describe as "shitstirring" are talking about abstaining on day 1, which I believe he believes regardless of his alignment, and his thoughts about kyeugh, when I don't think he's even voting her right now - were you talking about something else?

Also, Alien is a third party, so if kyeugh is town he wouldn't know she was town - like, are you saying that you don't think that he actually believes in his kyeugh read? I don't really get that impression from his posting about it.


----------



## Keldeo

Ah, Herbe, same questions to you. Can you talk more about this impression that you're getting from VM's posts, because I'm not getting it at all?

Also, I don't think we have any missing kill except the possible n0 vig* so if anyone's an alien, they wouldn't have been activated and therefore can be daykilled safely. 

* bad theory: the n0 mafia kill was stopped and the vig killed Mawile. I am choosing not to believe in this theory because damn vig, that would be harsh.


----------



## rari_teh

Keldeo said:


> Sorry, I'm pretty confused by this. I don't think that post would make him any more of a target than anyone else who's given a hypocop result?


not really? the very point of hypocopping is to enable cops to stealthily give their reads without raising suspicion. many people don’t even stick to their covers in their reads
VM didn’t even give cop cover in this game if my spreadsheet is right; he had zero good reason to say _oh by the way I have a super secret second reason to townread you, not telling you though_ unless i’m missing something obvious



Keldeo said:


> Also, Alien is a third party, so if kyeugh is town he wouldn't know she was town - like, are you saying that you don't think that he actually believes in his kyeugh read? I don't really get that impression from his posting about it.


I am definitely saying that he doesn’t actually think that kyeugh is mafia


----------



## rari_teh

rari_teh said:


> I am definitely saying that he doesn’t actually think that kyeugh is mafia


in the hypothesis of my theory being correct, that is


----------



## Keldeo

Uh, this might just be a misunderstanding or miscommunication between us about the point of hypocopping, but I really see no difference between VM saying "n0 mewtini" and saying "I have a secret reason to townread you, mewtini" as methods to lay down cover for the cop. 

btw, I don't want VM to feel pressured to give up what that secret reason is if he doesn't want to.



rari_teh said:


> Keldeo said:
> 
> 
> 
> Also, Alien is a third party, so if kyeugh is town he wouldn't know she was town - like, are you saying that you don't think that he actually believes in his kyeugh read? I don't really get that impression from his posting about it.
> 
> 
> 
> I am definitely saying that he doesn’t actually think that kyeugh is mafia
Click to expand...

Okay, can you expand on this for me? You seem to have had this theory for a while given that that post is kinda old - what exactly about his posts about kyeugh makes you think that?


----------



## mewtini

good evening yall. i have arrived. thank you to keldeoooo for the 15 react notifications, your donation is much appreciated <3


----------



## rari_teh

Keldeo said:


> Uh, this might just be a misunderstanding or miscommunication between us about the point of hypocopping, but I really see no difference between VM saying "n0 mewtini" and saying "I have a secret reason to townread you, mewtini" as methods to lay down cover for the cop.


it possibly is? because for me there’s a very wide gap between the two things
saying “n0 mewtini” means “this is likely false, but here it is”
casually saying “i have a secret reason to tr mewtini” on the other hand is a fairly serious claim, especially given that there potentially are other roles that may enable you to infer other people’s alignment


Keldeo said:


> btw, I don't want VM to feel pressured to give up what that secret reason is if he doesn't want to.


if this wasn’t clear, me neither! if this isn’t just part of an alien ploy, by all means don’t talk about it until you feel comfortable to do so


Keldeo said:


> Okay, can you expand on this for me? You seem to have had this theory for a while given that that post is kinda old - what exactly about his posts about kyeugh makes you think that?


nothing in particular, I just believe that VM is crafty enough to be able to believably claim to scumread someone he doesn’t actually scumread
(I’ll confess that this is very possibly confbias on my part, but still)


----------



## mewtini

so i just am antsy to post and i'm going to line-by-line these posts if that's ok tbh.


Keldeo said:


> I really see no difference between VM saying "n0 mewtini" and saying "I have a secret reason to townread you, mewtini" as methods to lay down cover for the cop.


i was about to agree with you but idk about this since VM said he had Secret Reasons but was doubting his read/beginning to feel weird about me :p

also if VM is alien it doesn't impact the veracity of his kyeugh read (i still think he's tunneling town? probably?)
in re: game setup. going off of jack's specs for this game, we know that there are 6 mafia, but wouldn't the existence of 3p/hypoalien cut into our town roster a bit?


----------



## mewtini

idk why i said 'in re' when i'm just bringing up this new point lol. 2am vibes


----------



## mewtini

Herbe said:


> i feel like everyone has kinda Meh reasons for townreading VM from what I've seen so far.


i don't love his posting and part of me will probably feel vindicated if he does flip red (sorry), but i - as someone who has never played as mafia before, haha - want to believe that a wolf wouldn't drag themselves directly into the spotlight like this


----------



## rari_teh

rari_teh said:


> infer other people’s alignment


other people’s alignment*s*
I should be sleeping lol



mewtini said:


> in re: game setup. going off of jack's specs for this game, we know that there are 6 mafia, but wouldn't the existence of 3p/hypoalien cut into our town roster a bit?


this is a very good point


----------



## mewtini

Keldeo said:


> bad theory: the n0 mafia kill was stopped and the vig killed Mawile. I am choosing not to believe in this theory because damn vig, that would be harsh.


or maybe odd-number-night vigilante?


----------



## mewtini

(ftr i subscribe to "vig just didn't fire n0" though.)



mewtini said:


> i was about to agree with you but idk about this since VM said he had Secret Reasons but was doubting his read/beginning to feel weird about me :p


also i didn't explain this well enough. i was just thinking that if he were genuinely copbaiting he would have tried to actually stand by his """check""" on me so as to bait mafia into the kill, idk if someone else said that and i missed it but


----------



## Keldeo

rari - I mean, what is conveyed by saying "n0 mewtini" is "if I am the cop, my n0 check is mewtini, so I will act as though she is confirmed town to me in order to keep up pretenses of being the cop." It's not good to "drop cover" and contradict that later on because then the mafia will know you're actually the cop, haha. To me, this is substantially similar to "mewtini, I have a reason to townread you - therefore, I'm acting as though you're town to me." Does this make sense? I don't think it's super productive to keep talking about this one point because what interests me more about your read is how you came to it.

Like... at the core, I'm still not sure why you think VM is an alien based on that rather than, like, a mafia faking a scumread on someone you think is town? Or a town who really does scumread said town, because you think VM's scumread is only fake if it's in the alien-him world where it's faked? idk, does this question make sense to you.



			
				mewtini said:
			
		

> also if VM is alien it doesn't impact the veracity of his kyeugh read


mewtini, what rari's read rests on is that VM's supposed alien plan involves kyeugh flipping town, which would flip suspicion onto himself - as a result, I'm trying to get into rari's head and wondering what about his read seems non-genuine to rari. re: game setup, from what Jack posted in the signup thread I think any alien would count under the "not mafia" count, yeah.



Butterfree said:


> Keldeo said:
> 
> 
> 
> If the kill got /deflected/ onto Seshas somehow then probably don't speak up, though, because that only guarantees a townie rather than a mafia. I think.
> 
> 
> 
> Can you clarify what you mean by "that only guarantees a townie rather than a mafia"? I don't think I follow.
Click to expand...

To be clear, I was speculating about the situations of X having redirected Y's action to target Seshas, in which case Y could be mafia carrying the nightkill, versus X having deflected actions targeting Y in order to target Seshas, in which case Y could be town (because they'd be the mafia's target). I think this is what mewtini was saying at the time this was posted.


----------



## mewtini

Keldeo said:


> To me, this is substantially similar to "mewtini, I have a reason to townread you - therefore, I'm acting as though you're town to me."


but this is what i'm saying. he's not acting like i'm town to him;


Vipera Magnifica said:


> i think you are town for Reasons™, though admittedly i'm a bit less sure than i was before


----------



## Keldeo

Ohh, okay, that makes sense to me. I guess we were all talking past each other, lol.

mewtini, how do you feel about the fact of rari's making that read? It feels out of left field + "evidence of background processing"-y to me, which strikes me as vaguely similar to how I remember town them in TVTropes, like... digging up new angles on things, even if those things had been foregrounded in the thread discussion.

(also, I am going to keep townreading them for mentioning their spreadsheet until they inevitably do it as mafia, and you can't stop me.)


----------



## mewtini

Keldeo said:


> (also, I am going to keep townreading them for mentioning their spreadsheet until they inevitably do it as mafia, and you can't stop me.)


haaahahahaha

also i agree, i think she's been playing pretty similar to how she was in tvt for a while now? i guess i could see (tenuously related) flashbacks to w!kokorico trying to posit mawile as alien - i mostly bring this up so that anyone else who thinks of it sees this first - but this is like, fairly different. with the context that rari is still my strongest TR/one of my hypoclears


----------



## mewtini

saying for posterity that i feel faintly weird about herbe's reply post


----------



## mewtini

Keldeo said:


> re: game setup, from what Jack posted in the signup thread I think any alien would count under the "not mafia" count, yeah.


this sucks tbh.


----------



## rari_teh

Keldeo said:


> It's not good to "drop cover" and contradict that later on because then the mafia will know you're actually the cop, haha.


did you drop a “not” here or I’m more sleep-deprived than I thought I was?


Keldeo said:


> Like... at the core, I'm still not sure why you think VM is an alien based on that rather than, like, a mafia faking a scumread on someone you think is town? Or a town who really does scumread said town, because you think VM's scumread is only fake if it's in the alien-him world where it's faked? idk, does this question make sense to you.


ok I definitely didn’t express myself right: alien!VM is just a theory that’s been bugging me for the last few hours, not what I think is more likely to be the case
I think he’s most likely either a townie who scumreads kyeugh (though that wouldn’t explain his shift in behaviour) or a mafioso who tried to mislynch kyeugh (but that wouldn’t explain the Tofu clear thing except maybe by hopes of clearing by association? probably not)

I also think there’s a nonzero chance that his scumread on kyeugh is fabricated because her votes legit made sense in real time, so it wouldn’t be too much of a stretch for alien!VM/mafia!VM to conveniently take them out of context and craft a spurious correlation


----------



## mewtini

rari_teh said:


> did you drop a “not” here or I’m more sleep-deprived than I thought I was?


he said it correctly, i think. if you hypocop and later forget/"drop" cover then mafia immediately knows to pass you over in their cop hunt



rari_teh said:


> I also think there’s a nonzero chance that his scumread on kyeugh is fabricated because her votes legit made sense in real time, so it wouldn’t be too much of a stretch for alien!VM/mafia!VM to conveniently take them out of context and craft a spurious correlation


yeah this is the flipside to "VM is so out there that he's probably just town" and is also why i went lowkey sicko mode earlier today before i collected myself :p


----------



## mewtini

OH omg keldeo did drop the 'not,' sorry!


----------



## mewtini

i kind of think that if i were more honest with myself i'd want to start wagoning vm, but i'm afraid of pulling a "mewt during RNP lynch" and just witchhunting people whose posts i especially disagree with


----------



## rari_teh

btw to clear any possible confusion: my goal venting my theory was to see if it actually made sense or not, not to start a vm wagon
I think Emmy is currently looking way worse than VM; we can scrutinize him more extensively by toMorrow and then maybe start a wagon if our conclusion leans toward alien!vm, provided that the vig and the mafia don’t shoot him N2


----------



## Keldeo

Oops, yeah, dropped a "not" - sorry about that. That makes more sense, Rari, thanks.


On that note, where I weigh in on the VM/kyeugh discussion:

My thought on the read itself is that I disagree with VM's initial assertion that kyeugh is more scummy because she led wagons onto villagers, in a vacuum. I do think that fact is potentially scum-indicative because my impression of mafia kyeugh is that she's somewhat hesitant to bus/more likely to just push villagers, and also kind of agenda-y in doing so, but it's not damning to me because town can be wrong, and I agree with Butterfree in that I see no real motive for mafia kyeugh to self-incriminate in that way by killing Seshas the next night.

My own thoughts about Skylar herself are that she felt fairly not agenda-y and relaxed early on, and that was the root of my early townread on her. I thought she also had a decent reaction to my push on Trebek, although her initial reaction to my vote could have been TMI of me as town, and her pushing that there was a mafia in the conversation between me/her/Trebek/rari/mewtini feels a little off given that I ended up townreading everyone there. I'm gonna put a pin in looking back at her votes from yesterday. 

My thoughts on what it says about VM are... hm. The statistics thing seemed kind of excessive, like he was pushing on something that looks bad rather than is bad (although I know he said that wasn't the actual point). But it still seems like kind of a bold move for mafia at this stage. I do also want to pull out this post -


Vipera Magnifica said:


> mewtini said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Vipera Magnifica said:
> 
> 
> 
> If kyeugh is mafia, then I also believe that rari_teh is mafia.
> 
> 
> 
> what correlation are you seeing?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Similar, possibly coordinated voting patterns, also rari_teh has been extremely quick to defend kyeugh
Click to expand...

This is not un-fakeable, but it's decent evidence imo (along with the Ultracool/Skylar w/w read) that VM has been like, actually thinking about the ramifications of his SRs and stuff. So that makes me think the read is ~more likely genuine.

I definitely think VM is not w/w with Skylar for this - Skylar's sort of shruggy/blase reaction to being pushed made me think it could be that way, but on balance, I just don't think a VM/Skylar team gains from VM going after her like this.


----------



## mewtini

rari_teh said:


> btw to clear any possible confusion: my goal venting my theory was to see if it actually made sense or not, not to start a vm wagon
> I think Emmy is currently looking way worse than VM; we can scrutinize him more extensively by toMorrow and then maybe start a wagon if our conclusion leans toward alien!vm, provided that the vig and the mafia don’t shoot him N2


yeah thanks for clarifying! i didn't mean that i'm pro-VM wagon rn, i just mean that my gut feelings are very like >:( but i've talked extensively about how he's not actually my main scumlean or anything like that. just a big ? in my brain rn. (i'd probably poke at superjolt/emmy/maybe trebek, i forget who else, before that)



Keldeo said:


> her pushing that there was a mafia in the conversation between me/her/Trebek/rari/mewtini feels a little off given that I ended up townreading everyone there.


oh, a q: do you not feel weird about trebek's reaction coming out of it? i thought he was kind of performative in agreeing with/solidifying skylar's stance there

i don't think the "similar, possibly coordinated voting patterns" quote really means the same thing to me as it does to you honestly



Keldeo said:


> my impression of mafia kyeugh is that she's somewhat hesitant to bus


not to detract from everything else but didn't she bus somewhat generously last game hahahaha


----------



## Keldeo

I realize I just got done saying that I'm not sure where I land on VM and Skylar, besides "maybe v/v pending further exploration", but I'm somewhat side-eyeing people who had sort of an "I encourage where this is going, but hey it could be wrong" reaction to his initial push. It feels like keeping options open. Primarily ILS's response below, but I also found koko and Herbe's responses looking back.



I liek Squirtles said:


> Similarly I'm not super buying VM's skylar theory but I'd still like to explore this a little bit for Science.





kokorico said:


> So I concur with VM that it seems _weird_ for kyeugh to have hit three townies.
> 
> Something still feels off about VM's theory but I don't think it's so much of a reach that we should dismiss it out of hand


(this gets a bit of a pass maybe because e has a hypocheck on VM, and also came down on the side of VM in a part I snipped out of this quote)


Herbe said:


> vm might be tunnling/overzealous here, and I don't think the sus on kyeugh is airtight
> 
> 
> kokorico said:
> 
> 
> 
> Something still feels off about VM's theory but I don't think it's so much of a reach that we should dismiss it out of hand
> 
> 
> 
> ^ i agree with this from kokorico.
Click to expand...

Someone talk to me about these reactions? I'm not sure if I'm just seeing things because tired.


----------



## mewtini

i love keldeo. i love people who agree with me.


Keldeo said:


> It feels like keeping options open


yes tbh


----------



## mewtini

on a less gutfeel note though it obviously is more than possible that people just didn't want to shut others down, but i just ... thought it was so _weird_ ...


----------



## Keldeo

Sorry, I'll get to more developed Trebek thoughts in a sec. I thought I explained them fairly well yesterDay, is there something that confuses you wrt that?/can you point out specifically the performative parts so that I can take a more directed look?



mewtini said:


> Keldeo said:
> 
> 
> 
> my impression of mafia kyeugh is that she's somewhat hesitant to bus
> 
> 
> 
> not to detract from everything else but didn't she bus somewhat generously last game hahahaha
Click to expand...

Oh no, sorry, all the words in what I was thinking didn't really translate to all the page haha. Hesitant to bus/more likely to just push villagers _specifically in the early game_ - like, all of her major pushes in early game TVT (I'm thinking of Seshas and rari here) were town iirc.



mewtini said:


> i would probably sooner want to look at the people who flipped between myuma/stryke without giving much rationale (in the hopes of coming off towny-confused) if that makes sense


Also, sorry if you mentioned it later and I missed it, but can you tell me more about if you looked into this?


----------



## Tangrowth

Okay, I'm here! Until I fall asleep, anyway. I'm going to try to speedread and realtime.


----------



## Tangrowth

If anyone has interesting stuff to throw at me, let me know with the mention thingy as always and I'll try to prioritize appropriately.


----------



## Keldeo

Spoiler






Keldeo said:


> Sorry,
> 
> Oh no, sorry,
> 
> Also, sorry


:V


----------



## Keldeo

M Plus 7 said:


> If anyone has interesting stuff to throw at me, let me know with the mention thingy as always and I'll try to prioritize appropriately.


Hey MP, glad you're here! I'm not sure how caught up you are, but imo the biggest event so far toDay is VM casing kyeugh and a bunch of stuff resulting from that starting at #1270


----------



## Tangrowth

Keldeo said:


> M Plus 7 said:
> 
> 
> 
> If anyone has interesting stuff to throw at me, let me know with the mention thingy as always and I'll try to prioritize appropriately.
> 
> 
> 
> Hey MP, glad you're here! I'm not sure how caught up you are, but imo the biggest event so far toDay is VM casing kyeugh and a bunch of stuff resulting from that starting at #1270
Click to expand...

Thanks, Keldeo! The answer is... not very, haha, but I appreciate you all being patient with me and I'll try to continue to make reads nonetheless. It's sort of like I'm a constant replacement for myself.

Let me take a look at that now.


----------



## mewtini

M Plus 7 said:


> If anyone has interesting stuff to throw at me, let me know with the mention thingy as always and I'll try to prioritize appropriately.


if it helps i have an annotated readlist though it's from (irl) last night


----------



## Tangrowth

mewtini said:


> M Plus 7 said:
> 
> 
> 
> If anyone has interesting stuff to throw at me, let me know with the mention thingy as always and I'll try to prioritize appropriately.
> 
> 
> 
> if it helps i have an annotated readlist though it's from (irl) last night
Click to expand...

Thank you! Definitely helps.


----------



## Trebek

Just catching up on recent discourse, not sure how much unique vibes i have to add to the VM discussion except for that i 100% agree with what keldeo said here:



Keldeo said:


> My thought on the read itself is that I disagree with VM's initial assertion that kyeugh is more scummy because she led wagons onto villagers, in a vacuum. I do think that fact is potentially scum-indicative because my impression of mafia kyeugh is that she's somewhat hesitant to bus/more likely to just push villagers, and also kind of agenda-y in doing so, but it's not damning to me because town can be wrong, and I agree with Butterfree in that I see no real motive for mafia kyeugh to self-incriminate in that way by killing Seshas the next night.


i have more emotional investment in the "kyeugh isnt mafia" camp than i have in the "VM is sus for FoSing kyeugh" camp, but still something that i am going to keep on the back burner of my brain.

also, i would be really surprised if it turned out that the n0 kill was a vig kill - flavorwise, i feel like it makes much more sense for a townkill to have the same flavor as a lynching and for the mafiakills to involve disappearance


----------



## Trebek

although, with all that in mind, i still think i want to keep my vote parked on emmy for now and see if she has more to say, unless something monumental happens


----------



## Tangrowth

Spoiler






Vipera Magnifica said:


> Let's talk probability!
> 
> If kyeugh is town, and were to vote at random from the other players, the chance of hitting town would be 68.4%
> 
> 13/19 = .684
> 
> If kyeugh were to pick another player, the chance of voting two town players in a row drops to 45.6%
> 
> (12/18)*(13/19)  = .667
> 
> Now if kyeugh were to vote one more player, the chance of voting three town players in a row drops to 29.5%
> 
> (11/17)*(12/18)*(13/19) = .295
> 
> Sure, it's still quite possible that kyeugh just was unlucky. If this were to happen to anyone else I might overlook it, but kyeugh was the person who started two of those wagons. If I were to wager on anyone being mafia right now, I'd bet my money on kyeugh.





I struggle to understand this mindset. Players in this game aren't playing in a vacuum, so I don't think random voting is a sensible proxy for about anything.

In my experience, I actually would assert that players who start wagons are more likely to be _town _than scum, but it absolutely is player and situation dependent.


----------



## rari_teh

Keldeo said:


> I realize I just got done saying that I'm not sure where I land on VM and Skylar, besides "maybe v/v pending further exploration", but I'm somewhat side-eyeing people who had sort of an "I encourage where this is going, but hey it could be wrong" reaction to his initial push. It feels like keeping options open. Primarily ILS's response below, but I also found koko and Herbe's responses looking back.


I see where you’re coming from, but I def don’t feel the same way tbh
I see it more like _I am intrigued, but still not convinced by this. Let’s talk more and I’ll see if I can make my mind about it_



Trebek said:


> also, i would be really surprised if it turned out that the n0 kill was a vig kill - flavorwise, i feel like it makes much more sense for a townkill to have the same flavor as a lynching and for the mafiakills to involve disappearance


very good catch tbh

I’m probably going to bed rn. good night y’all <3


----------



## Tangrowth

Spoiler






Butterfree said:


> Incidentally I remembered M+7 asked me some questions I never got to answer yesterday, so for good measure:
> 
> 
> 
> M Plus 7 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Oh, you played in Champs? Awesome! What game?
> 
> What about Stryke and Ultracool feels pure? I agree with you on the latter, not sure about the former.
> 
> 
> 
> I played in season 5 game 1! (I'm antialiasis.)
> 
> I guess Stryke being pure is kind of irrelevant now, but I believe was particularly thinking of stuff like #958, where he expressed not liking any of the opposing lynch trains while he was under attack. In general it felt like he was reasoning from a genuine, non-opportunistic perspective.
Click to expand...





Oh, cool! I played in Season 5 too! Game 9.


----------



## Keldeo

OH I completely forgot about the n0 flavor haha. Thanks for the reminder. 

--

@Vipera Magnifica I have a couple questions -



Vipera Magnifica said:


> fwiw don't take my "statistics" post as the main argument against skylar, it's not really meant to be any kind of hard evidence nor is it anything less than a highly simplified model, it was more just me thinking "what are the chances someone would randomly vote for 3 townies from this setup" and then actually trying to _calculate_ those chances as best I could. the real thing that made me suspicious of her is the timing of her votes, and *I have a hunch that several of the 6 mafia members are among the most active players*
> 
> i'm only like 70% certain she's mafia at this point, but honestly i'd like to hear the reasons so many of you _don't_ think she's mafia. so far all i'm hearing is "good vibes" but considering this is the woman that played many of you like a fiddle in tvtropes mafia, you'd _think _people would be more wary of her ability to feign towniness


Can I ask, who are these people / why do you have that hunch?



Vipera Magnifica said:


> mewtini said:
> 
> 
> 
> actually tbh sorry to interrogate you more vm but
> 
> 
> Vipera Magnifica said:
> 
> 
> 
> he’s pretty likely to be scum regardless of skylar’s alignment
> 
> 
> 
> what do you mean by this. just statistically?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I think if skylar is town, there is a very good chance that Mr. Ultracool is mafia for *the same reasons that people suspected him yesterday.*
> 
> If my theory is correct and skylar is mafia, then it's just like her to bus her mafia partner to throw suspicion off herself, especially when she never intended for it to become a wagon and was only doing it as an empty gesture.
Click to expand...

Can you talk a bit more about Mr. Ultracool being mafia in a Skylar town world? In other words, what reasons are you picking out here?

He's still been lurking, so I feel like maybe we'll just have to bite the bullet and time-out him at some point, but because he lurked in TVTropes, I don't actually know if that makes him mafia Mr. Ultracool instead of just Mr. Ultracool, haha.


----------



## mewtini

Keldeo said:


> Also, sorry if you mentioned it later and I missed it, but can you tell me more about if you looked into this?


yeah. idk if it was that fruitful tbh. it's one of the things substantiating my trebek worry. during the last 10 minutes of EoD he wrote 2 posts (1124, 1131) correcting m+7's interpretation of something he'd said, and wrote a third post (1143) where he kind of casually voted for myuma

the other person is bfree but like, to a lesser degree; in 1015 she says stryke feels pure to her and in 1147 she votes myuma because she agreed with skylar's case (keeping in mind that skylar is a bfree hypoclear)


Spoiler: EoD vote history (from skylar starting strykewagon)



skylar/stryke (#907)
rari/stryke (#909)
*herbe/stryke (#910)*
mewtini/VM (#950)
*myuma/stryke (#957)*
mewtini/myuma (#979)
emmy/uvote (#997)
rari/myuma (#1032)
*skylar/myuma (#1040)
tofu/abstain (#1058)
kokorico/stryke (#1059)*
keldeo/myuma (#1072)
*blu/myuma (#1111)*
keldeo/stryke (#1120)
*rari/stryke (#1132)*
m+7/myuma (#1140)
*keldeo/myuma (#1141)
trebek/myuma (#1143)
bfree/myuma (#1147)
keldeo/stryke (#1155)
mewtini/stryke (#1162)
m+7/stryke (#1163)*


----------



## Trebek

mewtini said:


> where he kind of casually voted for myuma


yeah, i fully admit that i played last EoD poorly: i totally forgot about it until a little bit before it happened, and ended up making my decision/vote without clearly articulating. i didnt switch my vote over to stryke after his vt claim bc i personally found it more likely than not to be true, but i didnt trust my gut enough to try and say anything about it / convince people to not flip stryke


----------



## Tangrowth

Vipera Magnifica said:


> fwiw don't take my "statistics" post as the main argument against skylar, it's not really meant to be any kind of hard evidence nor is it anything less than a highly simplified model, it was more just me thinking "what are the chances someone would randomly vote for 3 townies from this setup" and then actually trying to _calculate_ those chances as best I could. the real thing that made me suspicious of her is the timing of her votes, and I have a hunch that several of the 6 mafia members are among the most active players
> 
> i'm only like 70% certain she's mafia at this point, but honestly i'd like to hear the reasons so many of you _don't_ think she's mafia. so far all i'm hearing is "good vibes" but considering this is the woman that played many of you like a fiddle in tvtropes mafia, you'd _think _people would be more wary of her ability to feign towniness


VM, do you suspect anyone in particular of this?


----------



## Trebek

Trebek said:


> more likely than not to be true


so after re-checking the numbers, this wouldnt statistically be true (there are 11 people who would feasibly claim vt, and 5 of them are actually vt) - my stryke sympathy was more of a gut feeling than anything


----------



## mewtini

keldeo i'm answering your other question still, but i feel like i should probably clarify that my point was that i was concerned that he was weirdly optics-focused in an EoD scenario rather than wagoninvestigating/catching up


----------



## Tangrowth

Keldeo said:


> mewtini said:
> 
> 
> 
> @Keldeo we need you bro ...
> 
> 
> 
> Hi! I won a kind of exhausting game on another site early this morning and I'm still riding high, haha. I'll try to get caught up by tonight - ping me if you have any specific questions?
Click to expand...

Shhhhh, that game never happened.


----------



## Trebek

mewtini said:


> keldeo i'm answering your other question still, but i feel like i should probably clarify that my point was that i was concerned that he was weirdly optics-focused in an EoD scenario rather than wagoninvestigating/catching up


i can't think of a good way to say this that doesnt come across as bonus optics, but fwiw i totally admit that my priorities were scrambled last EoD


----------



## Trebek

Trebek said:


> mewtini said:
> 
> 
> 
> keldeo i'm answering your other question still, but i feel like i should probably clarify that my point was that i was concerned that he was weirdly optics-focused in an EoD scenario rather than wagoninvestigating/catching up
> 
> 
> 
> i can't think of a good way to say this that doesnt come across as bonus optics, but fwiw i totally admit that my priorities were scrambled last EoD
Click to expand...

as far as what i made posts about


----------



## Tangrowth

Trebek said:


> mewtini said:
> 
> 
> 
> keldeo i'm answering your other question still, but i feel like i should probably clarify that my point was that i was concerned that he was weirdly optics-focused in an EoD scenario rather than wagoninvestigating/catching up
> 
> 
> 
> i can't think of a good way to say this that doesnt come across as bonus optics, but fwiw i totally admit that my priorities were scrambled last EoD
Click to expand...

What do you mean by bonus optics?


----------



## Tangrowth

So... I read everything super quickly, but I'm not sure how much of it I truly absorbed. It does seem like VM's case is the main Thing of Interest. I'm still not really sure how to interpret it, so perhaps someone with more VM meta can help me there, but it seems almost NAI because I could see it being a town tunnel but also something that would be easy enough to replicate as wolf, so ???


----------



## Keldeo

mewtini said:


> Spoiler: some kind of tierlist
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *s tier*
> - mewtini
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *townread*
> - rari (hypo n0). if i'm not cop, still vibing; fairly cautionless posting imo and has been drawing decently solvy-feeling comparisons (e.g. 564 and 1042, even if i didn't agree w the latter)
> - kyeugh (hypo n1). if i'm not cop, also still vibing for now for reasons i've talked about
> - keldeo. maybe i'll get duped here, but. i liked his EoD and the trebekkening.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> * townlean*
> - bfree, asking "why are we suspicious of stryke?" in 945/EoD feels like an unnecessary move for a wolf. not much in her iso as of yet and i am admittedly maybe getting lightpocketed because i've agreed a fair amount with the few posts she's written (on probability + voicing initial confusion with trebekkening)
> - bluwiikoon (sounds pure, seems to have priorities in order. could go up but i'm tryna keep the TR section nice and lean.)
> - m+7 (not much development from my last read, just putting him here for now. i talked about this a bit in 923, haven't gone back to read him over since)
> - ultracool (between here and 'no thoughts')
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *lightly concerned (by which i mean 'not townleaning')*
> - superjolt, for being around but not "current" (as i think keldeo said) during EoD. i did think his initial thought-dump during his catchup felt like someone genuinely trying to piece the game together though, so ... idk.
> - trebek, previously was in No Thoughts, Head Empty-ville but am moving him here for the same thing as superjolt. he came in late during EoD which obvi i'm not going to scumlean someone for, but idk if it's great that his only non-vote post during EoD was to fix his optics/clarify a post he made that wasn't related to the voting wagons. at t-minus-9 to EoD. i guess i say this w the allowance that maybe his lack of current-ness just due to being new? (newer than jolt at least) but
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *have feelings but have (read) commitment issues*
> - VM (could go in townlean for reasons i mentioned earlier. i feel like maybe we're just clashing this game, idk ...)
> - herbe (could go in townlean i guess?)
> - emmy (idk if i should be worried that she didn't answer my q before while she was still online/reacting inthread? i asked it kind of expecting that she'd just say "idk, just da vibe" but she wasn't super question dodgy last game)
> - ILS i initially was kinda shrug in re: flavorspec because i don't really think individual flavor roles actually matter very much and wasn't going to change my read so long as he didn't talk about game content. but now he has. things i see upon reading back: he said seshas pinged him as town, which i guess could kinda go either way, idk. light rari shade that could be NAI but still makes me feel a little bit weird (the 763 - 777 thing i talked about in 946). but i like 1301 well enough i think?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *no thoughts. head empty*
> - kokorico (i don't really have any explanation tbh, sorry)
> - rnp (is rnp, and also isn't super active)
> - tofu (low-poster)
> 
> 
> _other thoughts:_
> - would be interested in readlist from butterfree whenever she's able/willing
> - VM said earlier that rari was suspiciously "quick to defend" skylar and i am kind of not seeing that tbh aside from the fact that rari's 1272 was the first response to VM's initial kyeughpush, which doesn't mean anything imo. also like, in that case i fall into the same boat because my post came right after rari's, unless VM just doesn't care as much because my voting patterns differed from kyeugh's or w/e (this should probably go in the list but, whatever. it's my post and i'm lazy hehe.)
> - i miss seshas lol. bring seshas back
> - i said earlier that it could be worth looking at people who flipflopped during EoD in an effort to Look Confused or noncommittally voted, thinking that "there has to have been at least one wolf present right ... ?" but i don't think the actual list really turns up much, like. trebek and maaaybe butterfree. i dunno
> - mewt should probably start proofreading but she's going to hit Post reply anyway because she can't be fucked to go back over this
> - *unvote* for now


mewtini, can you expand on your read on Superjolt here? When I said he wasn't "current" I was just saying he wasn't like, caught up on the thread while he was EODing, which I'm personally fine with since he wasn't around until Monday.

Agree with you on ILS's rari shade I think. Can you expand on what you like about ILS's 1301, Butterfree's 945, and my EOD?


----------



## Keldeo

Oh and imo, Rari in general has felt quick to push against suspicion this game. I don't remember off the top of my head exactly who they were defending, though.


----------



## Trebek

M Plus 7 said:


> Trebek said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> mewtini said:
> 
> 
> 
> keldeo i'm answering your other question still, but i feel like i should probably clarify that my point was that i was concerned that he was weirdly optics-focused in an EoD scenario rather than wagoninvestigating/catching up
> 
> 
> 
> i can't think of a good way to say this that doesnt come across as bonus optics, but fwiw i totally admit that my priorities were scrambled last EoD
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> What do you mean by bonus optics?
Click to expand...

i didnt want what i said to come across as "im just saying this to cover up for something i did in the past that went over suboptimally"

no clue if the phrase bonus optics means what i wanted it to there but it sounded cool :)


----------



## Keldeo

M Plus 7 said:


> So... I read everything super quickly, but I'm not sure how much of it I truly absorbed. It does seem like VM's case is the main Thing of Interest. I'm still not really sure how to interpret it, so perhaps someone with more VM meta can help me there, but it seems almost NAI because I could see it being a town tunnel but also something that would be easy enough to replicate as wolf, so ???


Yeah I kind of feel like I've had to read him through mindset things that are like, adjacent to the case itself. 

What do you think of Skylar/kyeugh right now?


----------



## Keldeo

Actually, Trebek, where do you come down about Skylar overall / where's your head at in general? I noted down that these posts that you made about it earlier seemed a bit noncommittal.



Spoiler






Trebek said:


> So i havent posted in a while and have been going back and rereading, most of my thoughts are still jumbled but i wanted to quickly give my 2 cents on the kyeugh discussion before i go and write other things.
> 
> Frankly, i don't really see the point of directly comparing her play this game with her play last game, at least in a vacuum (i was guilty of doing this read D1, but after thinking about it i dont really like the way i was thinking about it)
> 
> if kyeugh is town, she would most likely want to switch things up, in order to avoid the sentiment of "well she was scum last game and is playing the exact same way now!" but w!kyeugh would likely think the exact same thing.
> 
> I'm not saying that we can't derive reads from her style, but i think a direct comparison to tvt would be a red herring.
> 
> Also, this was already discussed but i want to second the notion that the statistical analysis of the voting shouldnt imply anything, and frankly idk how i feel about it even being brought up in the first place (but im not going to spin that into a scumread just yet, bc i can understand the sentiment)





Trebek said:


> mewtini said:
> 
> 
> 
> esp if you're someone who's played a fair number of games tbh
> 
> 
> 
> when writing the post i forgot that more than 2 mafia games existed in the universe. whoops.
> 
> although tbh, im not sure what would inspire w!kyeugh to support the killing of someone she had voted for, because of this exact dialogue
Click to expand...


----------



## Tangrowth

Keldeo said:


> M Plus 7 said:
> 
> 
> 
> So... I read everything super quickly, but I'm not sure how much of it I truly absorbed. It does seem like VM's case is the main Thing of Interest. I'm still not really sure how to interpret it, so perhaps someone with more VM meta can help me there, but it seems almost NAI because I could see it being a town tunnel but also something that would be easy enough to replicate as wolf, so ???
> 
> 
> 
> Yeah I kind of feel like I've had to read him through mindset things that are like, adjacent to the case itself.
> 
> What do you think of Skylar/kyeugh right now?
Click to expand...

I was confused for a bit who Skylar was, but then I figured it out through context, lmao.

But seriously, I'm torn. I think some of their posts and lines of thinking have hit my gut as towny. My brain didn't like the "lynch me if you want" (paraphrasing) post. I'll have to ISO her I think... but in the morning or something, haha. What are your thoughts?


----------



## Tangrowth

Keldeo said:


> Oh and imo, Rari in general has felt quick to push against suspicion this game. I don't remember off the top of my head exactly who they were defending, though.


What do you make of that specifically?


----------



## Trebek

currently townleaning skylar

going back to reread her posts rn but i think the predominant Thought in my head is that i really wouldnt understand w!skylar's motivation for killing off myuma/seshas (whichever one it was)


----------



## Tangrowth

Trebek said:


> currently townleaning skylar
> 
> going back to reread her posts rn but i think the predominant Thought in my head is that i really wouldnt understand w!skylar's motivation for killing off myuma/seshas (whichever one it was)


I'm curious, how often do you use something like night kill analysis to inform your reads?


----------



## mewtini

Keldeo said:


> I thought I explained them fairly well yesterDay, is there something that confuses you wrt that?/can you point out specifically the performative parts so that I can take a more directed look?


sorry, had to vanish for a bit and i kind of don't feel like post-hunting at the moment/need to reread tbh, but i'll talk about the like, story arc of my trebekfeelings? disclaimer that i am likely confbiasing because i latched on a bit to his EoD, and i don't really want this to be taken as a trebek push

i just keep feeling like he made a show of saying he understood/agreed with what you were doing in what could have been an effort to escape suspicion. once it ended (and tbh, this might be me reacting to getting lightly sussed) he namedropped me and rari a few times for our involvement in the whole thing - even after his read had changed to say "i no longer am as suspicious of them" - at the same time as taking the chance to say he strongly TRs you for putting him through it in the first place, and kyeugh (who i felt kind of ? about at the time) for siding with you in it

a lot of this is reliant on that i still don't really understand the confusion about/suspicion surrounding the reactions to your initial vote, and that i get the optics-concerned vibe from some other parts of his posting


----------



## Trebek

M Plus 7 said:


> Trebek said:
> 
> 
> 
> currently townleaning skylar
> 
> going back to reread her posts rn but i think the predominant Thought in my head is that i really wouldnt understand w!skylar's motivation for killing off myuma/seshas (whichever one it was)
> 
> 
> 
> I'm curious, how often do you use something like night kill analysis to inform your reads?
Click to expand...

this is my first game, so im still trying to work out which type of analysis works the best for me as far as making reads goes, but in a vacuum i think i feel more confident using night kill/mech analysis than thread analysis


----------



## Tangrowth

mewtini said:


> Keldeo said:
> 
> 
> 
> I thought I explained them fairly well yesterDay, is there something that confuses you wrt that?/can you point out specifically the performative parts so that I can take a more directed look?
> 
> 
> 
> sorry, had to vanish for a bit and i kind of don't feel like post-hunting at the moment/need to reread tbh, but i'll talk about the like, story arc of my trebekfeelings? disclaimer that i am likely confbiasing because i latched on a bit to his EoD, and i don't really want this to be taken as a trebek push
> 
> i just keep feeling like he made a show of saying he understood/agreed with what you were doing in what could have been an effort to escape suspicion. once it ended (and tbh, this might be me reacting to getting lightly sussed) he namedropped me and rari a few times for our involvement in the whole thing - even after his read had changed to say "i no longer am as suspicious of them" - at the same time as taking the chance to say he strongly TRs you for putting him through it in the first place, and kyeugh (who i felt kind of ? about at the time) for siding with you in it
> 
> a lot of this is reliant on that i still don't really understand the confusion about/suspicion surrounding the reactions to your initial vote, and that i get the optics-concerned vibe from some other parts of his posting
Click to expand...

What makes you think that interpretation as opposed to one where Trebek is flip-flopping a bit and then concerned about optics because he lacks information and is concerned about his own ML respectively?


----------



## Tangrowth

Trebek said:


> M Plus 7 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Trebek said:
> 
> 
> 
> currently townleaning skylar
> 
> going back to reread her posts rn but i think the predominant Thought in my head is that i really wouldnt understand w!skylar's motivation for killing off myuma/seshas (whichever one it was)
> 
> 
> 
> I'm curious, how often do you use something like night kill analysis to inform your reads?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> this is my first game, so im still trying to work out which type of analysis works the best for me as far as making reads goes, but in a vacuum i think i feel more confident using night kill/mech analysis than thread analysis
Click to expand...

Oh right, I forgot how new you were. I appreciate this regardless, thanks!


----------



## mewtini

M Plus 7 said:


> What makes you think that interpretation as opposed to one where Trebek is flip-flopping a bit and then concerned about optics because he lacks information and is concerned about his own ML respectively?


literally just the EoD, because he wasn't a wagon


----------



## Trebek

M Plus 7 said:


> Trebek said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> M Plus 7 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Trebek said:
> 
> 
> 
> currently townleaning skylar
> 
> going back to reread her posts rn but i think the predominant Thought in my head is that i really wouldnt understand w!skylar's motivation for killing off myuma/seshas (whichever one it was)
> 
> 
> 
> I'm curious, how often do you use something like night kill analysis to inform your reads?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> this is my first game, so im still trying to work out which type of analysis works the best for me as far as making reads goes, but in a vacuum i think i feel more confident using night kill/mech analysis than thread analysis
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Oh right, I forgot how new you were. I appreciate this regardless, thanks!
Click to expand...

well, first game with a little asterisk next to it: my major experience is from Town of Salem, which is why i feel a lot better about the mechanical side of things - theres not really much time to make deep personality reads in those games


----------



## Keldeo

Skylar thoughts are I townleaned her pretty early on for like, not seeming that pushy, and a little bit of sheeping the thread and general depth of thought / engagement / whatever - I know the latter is stuff that can be faked but it was enough that I wanted to give her a day. Right now I'm kinda pending rereading her EOD because I haven't reread any of d1 yet, and that might have to wait until tomorrow.



M Plus 7 said:


> Keldeo said:
> 
> 
> 
> Oh and imo, Rari in general has felt quick to push against suspicion this game. I don't remember off the top of my head exactly who they were defending, though.
> 
> 
> 
> What do you make of that specifically?
Click to expand...

Mm... not much tbh, was kind of a side note I wanted to put out there after thinking a bit about VM saying that Rari was quick to defend Skylar. This is something I might revisit if I have time because it's definitely stuck out to me and there could be a pattern.

Thanks, mewtini - I feel as though Trebek's thoughts today haven't really been as conclusive as anything yesterday. I kind of think he has felt optics-focused for the entire game, so without looking back I'm not sure if I'll see what you do, except that in a vacuum mafia are less likely to care between v/v wagons and stuff.


----------



## Tangrowth

mewtini said:


> M Plus 7 said:
> 
> 
> 
> What makes you think that interpretation as opposed to one where Trebek is flip-flopping a bit and then concerned about optics because he lacks information and is concerned about his own ML respectively?
> 
> 
> 
> literally just the EoD, because he wasn't a wagon
Click to expand...

I see, that makes sense, since he wasn't under any serious pressure or anything.


----------



## Tangrowth

Yeah, I'm going to have to go back and dig tomorrow, I'm probably just out of steam here. Then I'll throw down an updated / more thorough reads list, that's the plan anyway.


----------



## mewtini

Keldeo said:


> mewtini, can you expand on your read on Superjolt here? When I said he wasn't "current" I was just saying he wasn't like, caught up on the thread while he was EODing, which I'm personally fine with since he wasn't around until Monday.


ohhh, gotcha. what i meant was that he appeared inthread and was (presumably?) around during the time, but wasn't seeming as close to what i consider Archetypal Townie Behavior at EoD would be - trying to quickly get vibes off of the main wagons and acting accordingly. he asked about relevant posts in 991 though to his credit and maybe i'm just holding him to a slightly higher standard because i think (?) he has some level of experience playing



Keldeo said:


> Agree with you on ILS's rari shade I think. Can you expand on what you like about ILS's 1301, Butterfree's 945, and my EOD?


tbh i have since backtracked on 1301. i think at the time i just thought that a wolf wouldn't pop in to say "these theories are flimsy" but i slipped back into "i don't like the VM push and it's weird that ILS encouraged it" and then into mostly null on that

i was thinking that butterfree asking "why are we suspicious of stryke" in 945 felt unnecessary for mafia, esp combined with her calling stryke's posts pure. that's a pretty light read though

your EoD felt like someone actually trying to figure out wtf was going on, i guess, and your voteflipping made sense to me in real-time. stuff like you wanting to wagon present players, getting roleclaims, and being concerned about the myuma-pile on in 1146 felt good


----------



## Keldeo

Alright I think these are my last questions. screams in multiquote.

@Butterfree can you talk a bit more about your RNP and IndigoEmmy reads? I guess I'm interested in any change on the people you said you'd need to reread after you reread them, as well.



Spoiler






rari_teh said:


> mewtini’s right, we’re stuck in a pointless loop that will lead us nowhere tbh
> 
> tbqf I’ve been feeling uneasy about ILS for quite some time. he seems super evadey whenever we try to get his opinion on anything that hasn’t been heavily talked about previously, and while I know that he was kinda acting like that in TVT iirc and he was, well, our doctor, I feel like there’s a higher-than-average chance of him being mafia.
> 
> what are y’all’s opinions?





@rari_teh can you point to some specific posts of ILS's that make you think that? What do you think of koko and Butterfree's points about his flavor speculation, or does that not really sway you that much?



Spoiler






Tofu said:


> I'm wondering why the same small handful of people are dominating the discussion. Boredom is a valid reason, but I see more investment in this. I read that much investment as suspicious, because it gives the power to a smaller group of people who are able to influence others by just being more vocal, which seems like a mafia-y thing to do. I would like to hear from some others who have managed to follow the discussion.
> 
> There are 17 people alive.
> 
> I'm side-eying Mewtini and Skylar at this point.
> 
> Btw, why would posting slightly or more or less memes mean anything lmao





@Tofu, do you have any reads other than these on Mewtini and Skylar? Do you bring in any other reasons besides your activity/investment read, to these suspicions?

ftr, my personal take on that is that I think some people dominating the discussion is a function of playstyle and time someone is willing to spend on the game being unequal between players, and those traits doesn't entirely indicate alignment to me.


----------



## Keldeo

@Superjolt and @Mr. Ultracool, hope you're doing alright - it would be cool to get some thoughts from you about the day's events! For a more direct question, I'd be interested in your thoughts about Vipera Magnifica's case on kyeugh and the resulting discussions, as well as the current wagons. 

By the way, if anyone has problems with being pinged/mentioned/@'d, please let me know. I know some people were kind of hesitant to ping people earlier, and I don't know if that's an actual issue that people are having.


----------



## mewtini

M Plus 7 said:


> mewtini said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> M Plus 7 said:
> 
> 
> 
> What makes you think that interpretation as opposed to one where Trebek is flip-flopping a bit and then concerned about optics because he lacks information and is concerned about his own ML respectively?
> 
> 
> 
> literally just the EoD, because he wasn't a wagon
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I see, that makes sense, since he wasn't under any serious pressure or anything.
Click to expand...

i probably should have elaborated more for The Thread's Sake. what i mean is that, obvi, if he was town and concerned about getting mislynched, prioritizing self-defense makes sense, but that wasn't the case. coming in and acting kind of non-urgently/clarifying non-related posts instead of quickly vibechecking the two wagoned players is what felt weird to me


----------



## mewtini

M Plus 7 said:


> My brain didn't like the "lynch me if you want" (paraphrasing) post.


i didn't either but i think it makes some sense if you consider that thread discussion pretty much stalled entirely because of the talk about the VM push on her


----------



## mewtini

fking hit post reply again
- and that (as i read it) she was trying to move things along a bit


----------



## Keldeo

Haha I lied, more questions.

@Herbe Can you talk a little more about your Emmy thoughts / why you're voting her and why you think the wagons could be v/v?



kokorico said:


> Vipera Magnifica said:
> 
> 
> 
> I have a hunch that several of the 6 mafia members are among the most active players
> 
> 
> 
> this is a good snake tbh. With how badly we screwed up yesterday, it would not surprise me at all if there were a couple of mafia influencing the direction of the conversation and the formation of the leading wagons. (This is another reason why the kyeugh thing unnerves me.)
> 
> I'll have a glance back shortly and see if I can scrape together anything about the people who _have_ been talking a lot.
Click to expand...

@kokorico Could you elaborate on who specifically you're looking at with this / where you're thinking after this glance back?

@Bluwiikoon Sorry if you did so and I just didn't see it, I've been a bit scattered - can you sum up where your head is at for me? And this is maybe a weird question, but how/have the EOD wagon flips changed what you've been thinking?

--

Me and my seer cover (new band name): Keldeo, Butterfree, M Plus 7
Yeah!: mewtini, rari_teh (maybe?), Bluwiikoon (some amount of read decay from d1)
Yeah?: Tofu (via VM), Vipera Magnifica, kokorico
Uhh, mrgle, will review their EODs and stuff when I am not sleepy: kyeugh, Trebek, Superjolt
Eh: Herbe, I liek Squirtles, IndigoEmmy, RedneckPhoenix, Mr. Ultracool

or something. I'm not super happy with my reads, I feel like there are too many players I don't have a strong grasp on, but I have a decent amount of time tomorrow to reread and firm stuff up!

I'll *vote Mr. Ultracool* just as a [pokes], I think this makes the current votecount
4 - IndigoEmmy - mewtini, Trebek, rari, Herbe
3 - Mr. Ultracool - Skylar, VM, Keldeo


----------



## Bluwiikoon

Keldeo said:


> @Bluwiikoon Sorry if you did so and I just didn't see it, I've been a bit scattered - can you sum up where your head is at for me? And this is maybe a weird question, but how/have the EOD wagon flips changed what you've been thinking?


Hi Keldeooooo! (Unrelatedly, omg it saves posts-in-progress between phone and pc :o Had to switch for more comfortable writing!)

After reading other peoples' thoughts a bit more, I feel better about kyeugh than I did in my previous post where I was starting to have Doubts. She's definitely a smart player as we've seen, but I trust mewtini's judgement in that kyeugh is more relaxed and memey and contributing more to town than not.

VM comes out of the kyeugh speculation looking a bit worse if we all accept kyeugh as town, since it could all be a push to discredit someone we perceive as town over uhhh current lynch targets. But, trying to use mech stuff as speculation could also be a very towny move? It just all, hmm, feels very aggressive. ILS also continues to feel  to me, for posting sparsely yet feeling inclined to comment on the rari shade and kyeugh shade. I also don't think ILS's flavor spec could necessarily be ultra towny if there's no Strange Circumstances to hide

By EOD wagon flips you mean uhhh Stryke, myuma and Seshas' nonscum flips, right? It is unfortunate but I honestly feel like given the circumstances, we didn't have too much to go on yesterDay  Vig resolving one of our suspects is a bit useful so we can speculate about other things toDay, but I do still feel like the mafia's choice of going after Seshas was a bit strange, even if they did perhaps fear their playstyle? Regardless of Seshas' activity in previous games, I feel that they didn't contribute _too_ much to the discussion in this game and remained a bit quiet overall. But if mafia members have been in prior games with Seshas and the kill wasn't random, I'd be inclined to  @ players who have been in more than one game (and aren't a dumb newbie like me LOL)

I still don't feel too bad about either an Ultracool or IndigoEmmy lynch, however, this post from Indigo has me feeling a little strange:


IndigoEmmy said:


> You really don't want to lynch me. Trust me.


That and her not really wanting to read or speculate is uhhhh. Hmm. I see a few possibilities:

Emmy is actually cop and is saving spicy reads for later
Emmy is (unactivated?) alien and trying to seem like she has an important role so mafia will target her
Emmy is mafia and trying to seem like cop/alien so town gets nervous about lynching, along with trying to stay under the radar a bit
Emmy is just town and doesn't want to get lynched
That's all I've really got for now, though I do still feel strange about Herbe based on what Butterfree has been saying (LAMIST stuff in day 1)


----------



## Butterfree

I’m not done catching up but re: whether mafia!kyeugh is reluctant to bus, all I can think of is her brazenly leading a lynch on RNP _after M&F had been inspected as mafia_


----------



## RedneckPhoenix

emmy saying "you don't want to lynch me" is either a real beginner scum move or a real beginner town power role move. i'm not moving my vote out of spite for kyeugh but just contemplating


----------



## RedneckPhoenix

(sorry, i currently don't have the energy to be as much of a dumbass as usual. i got sick)


----------



## kyeugh

Butterfree said:


> I’m not done catching up but re: whether mafia!kyeugh is reluctant to bus, all I can think of is her brazenly leading a lynch on RNP _after M&F had been inspected as mafia_


full disclosure this was mostly because panini said i shouldn’t and i was like


----------



## kyeugh

Bluwiikoon said:


> Emmy is mafia and trying to seem like cop/alien so town gets nervous about lynching, along with trying to stay under the radar a bit


honestly i think the “oh you’ll regret this” thing is pretty much how she acted even when she had a fairly weak role last game so i’m not really reading it one way or the other personally


----------



## kyeugh

i am still trying to work out how i feel about emmy, but something i want to bring up is that i feel like emmy’s play last game was very much with the flow; she was pretty easily persuaded to change votes and mostly seemed to kind of float around consensus. in this game i feel she’s been a bit more against the grain. i’m not particularly suspecting vm right now, but IF emmy flips red, my eyes are going to be on him. with her abstain vote yesterday and her scumread on me that she doesn’t want to substantiate, i don’t think it’s impossible that she’s basically following his lead.
i would probably be side-eyeing him for this if i was more convinced of emmy’s scumminess, but meh, i’m having kind of a hard time being super convinced of anyone’s alignment right now.


----------



## Vipera Magnifica

M Plus 7 said:


> Vipera Magnifica said:
> 
> 
> 
> fwiw don't take my "statistics" post as the main argument against skylar, it's not really meant to be any kind of hard evidence nor is it anything less than a highly simplified model, it was more just me thinking "what are the chances someone would randomly vote for 3 townies from this setup" and then actually trying to _calculate_ those chances as best I could. the real thing that made me suspicious of her is the timing of her votes, and I have a hunch that several of the 6 mafia members are among the most active players
> 
> i'm only like 70% certain she's mafia at this point, but honestly i'd like to hear the reasons so many of you _don't_ think she's mafia. so far all i'm hearing is "good vibes" but considering this is the woman that played many of you like a fiddle in tvtropes mafia, you'd _think _people would be more wary of her ability to feign towniness
> 
> 
> 
> VM, do you suspect anyone in particular of this?
Click to expand...

I honestly think mewtini is being duped by skylar like she was last game, and I feel sorry for her if that's the case.

When it comes to rari I don't think there's any duping at all, I genuinely think they're in cahoots.

I really think I should trust my gut on this and there are things that skylar has said that have made me  but it seems like there's no use pushing for a kyeugh lynch today. I guess we'll find out eventually whether I was right or wrong on this but boy do I hope I'm right.


----------



## Vipera Magnifica

@kyeugh If I'm wrong about you I will donate $30 to the charity or bail fund of your choosing


----------



## kyeugh

poggers moment
i will do the same if you are right


----------



## Vipera Magnifica

you offered that up pretty easily

perhaps my one way train to vindication station has been rerouted to clown town


----------



## I liek Squirtles

Hello all!! I'm getting caught up on thread all will post a tier list of my reads in a bit. I'll only have access to mobile today.

One thing I will clear up now @Butterfree is that I flavor spec'd the death as Mr. Mistoffelees instead of Macavity for a very stupid reason, I forgot this was 2019 and not stage show, where Macavity is not Suave or has Magic (extremely basic mistake and ik it sounds flimsy but it is true,,)


----------



## RedneckPhoenix

i will agree with vm: i'm having less fun with the current mafia style than i did with old school tcodfia tbh. all yall talking and shit, boring


----------



## Tofu

Keldeo said:


> @Tofu, do you have any reads other than these on Mewtini and Skylar? Do you bring in any other reasons besides your activity/investment read, to these suspicions?
> 
> ftr, my personal take on that is that I think some people dominating the discussion is a function of playstyle and time someone is willing to spend on the game being unequal between players, and those traits doesn't entirely indicate alignment to me.


So... To me there is a clear lovefest happening through likes and the sort of insta-defend mechanic going on with Skylar/Mewtini. This is either just human nature of wanting to be in some group mentality/wanting to be friends/(possibly is friends I don't know y'all), but it seems irrational to me. From my perspective, _people are defending Skylar too much and ignoring or misinterpreting posts that indicate suspicion_.

Rari I just think is like good at mafia or something I'm not sure what to think. We played Push the Button together idk much about you but we won as aliens, so, clearly.

Most of what I have seen of people defending Skylar has been "oh, hypocop" and, while I get why people do that, it irritates me because clearly not everyone is a cop and it's like an excuse to just give a name with no reasoning under the guise of covering for the real cop. Information without reason makes me suspicious, and why are so many people doing it for the same person?

I didn't read vm's statistic thing as a Skylar wagon.

I'm going to repeat it because it'll be ignored. I don't think vm's statistic thing was a Skylar wagon.

I read it as just an interesting post trying to figure out probabilities, when at that point we had limited information (and, we still do). Because of that post, I think it helped me to gain perspective on what we could be dealing with in the game, and, while I think vm is rightly suspicious of Skylar, I don't think the numbers were meant to be a clear indication but were just for like, interest/observation (which is what we're supposed to be doing, right...) To me it looks like it's being skewed and not being looked at objectively.

That being said, at this point, lynching or vigging Skylar would reveal more valuable information than not doing so. Imo, of course. I feel like Skylar is a liability or something because people are too emotional over whether she is town or not. It would also reveal who was susceptible to that group mentality/hive mind thing and would either clear or make others suspicious by association, which I think is valuable in determining whether everyone else's reads are objective. What we need right now is information and I think that is more valuable than potentially losing another town, since we are still early in the game. That being said, I'm not committing to a vote just yet.

I don't think we should bother with Emmy at this point. Emmy hasn't been participating much and from what little I know about her, I think if she were mafia she'd be participating more (just a hunch). I think Emmy is vanilla town. I could be wrong but, fight me.

I am 95% on what vm's role is. I mentioned this to Jack previously because I thought I was cheating basically, and now I know even more than when I initially contacted him so it's like... I'm going to just try to separate what I know from the game and what I know in person. I don't want to not mention it at all because I think it could help, but, I am not planning on elaborating on this.

Oh wait; forget I said all that. I'll just "hypocop" that he's in the clear. Yeah. That'll work.


----------



## kyeugh

Tofu said:


> Most of what I have seen of people defending Skylar has been "oh, hypocop" and, while I get why people do that, it irritates me because clearly not everyone is a cop and it's like an excuse to just give a name with no reasoning under the guise of covering for the real cop. Information without reason makes me suspicious, and why are so many people doing it for the same person?


i think this is kind of a mischaracterization? people have absolutely not just been going “hypocop skylar good ” and leaving it at that. and also, yeah, if people acted like hypocop clears weren’t sufficient for a read then ? that defeats the purpose of hypocop as you say.

this entire post kind of pings weird to me, like it’s acting like people who disagree with the theory are doing so because they’re ignoring evidence or being sheep or teaming with me or something, rather than that people simply don’t think the case is that strong and disagree with it for valid reasons.



Tofu said:


> To me it looks like it's being skewed and not being looked at objectively.


as far as this goes, i think the point is kind of that it isn’t objective and that the numbers don’t really mean that much. i don’t think vm was trying to be intentionally misleading with them or anything, but it’s still not that useful to arbitrarily assign probability to non-random events like this and then expect to divine useful meaning from the results. butterfree and m+7 made pretty good posts about this too.


----------



## mewtini

tbh i just have Reasons that i’m pretty sure skylar is town and maybe i will leave it at that for now. sorry

skimmed tofu’s post but am on mobile and i guess i’ll talk more later hehe but it’s kind of weird. “people are emotional over her being town” is kind of ??? and i’m not a fan of pure information lynching. granted i also have investment in keeping her around because i think she’s a good player and useful to town (if not mafia, which i don’t believe she is)

also i maintain that the reaction lovefest would be a dumb wolf move :p


----------



## mewtini

Tofu said:


> Emmy hasn't been participating much and from what little I know about her, I think if she were mafia she'd be participating more (just a hunch). I think Emmy is vanilla town. I could be wrong but, fight me.


she is far less participatory than she was last game though

and she was essentially vanilla town there lol


----------



## kyeugh

i’m driving back down to tallahassee this weekend starting rn, so it’s gonna be a bit patchy. please ping me liberally if you want my attention.


----------



## mewtini

Tofu said:


> So... To me there is a clear lovefest happening through likes and the sort of insta-defend mechanic going on with Skylar/Mewtini. This is either just human nature of wanting to be in some group mentality/wanting to be friends/(possibly is friends I don't know y'all), but it seems irrational to me. From my perspective, _people are defending Skylar too much and ignoring or misinterpreting posts that indicate suspicion_.
> 
> Rari I just think is like good at mafia or something I'm not sure what to think. We played Push the Button together idk much about you but we won as aliens, so, clearly.


why is there separation between me and rari? we’ve both gotten pointed out for “insta-defending” so i’m just wondering


----------



## mewtini

yeah i’ll have to come back later but.

i don’t want to lynch someone purely because their associations are more in-depth than others’ are. i want to lynch someone who i think could be scum


----------



## Mr. Ultracool

Sorry for only checking in this late - somehow, I must have accidentally unsubscribed from this thread or something, because according to my notifications, no one posted anything since yesterday.
That said, isn't this


Vipera Magnifica said:


> kyeugh said:
> 
> 
> 
> pretty sure i know who the vig is tbh
> 
> 
> 
> can you elaborate on this?
Click to expand...

]
basically fishing, i.e. antitown play?


----------



## mewtini

i thought about that too but gave it the benefit of the doubt


----------



## Vipera Magnifica

well if i had any doubts about mr ultracool being mafia i don’t any longer


----------



## JackPK

Due to outside circumstances *Superjolt* has had to drop out and has requested a sub-in. *Mist1422* will be taking over for him.


----------



## mewtini

... pointing out fishing is probably NAI


----------



## Trebek

Vipera Magnifica said:


> well if i had any doubts about mr ultracool being mafia i don’t any longer





mewtini said:


> ... pointing out fishing is probably NAI


i’m inclined to agree with mewt on this one - i’m not sure i see the universe in which this specific ultracool post is the one that solidifies a scumread, unless i’m missing part of vm’s argument?


----------



## Vipera Magnifica

skimming the whole thread  and _that's_ the only thing he points out is  to me

and how do we know skylar wasn't the one fishing to get the vig to say something?


----------



## Vipera Magnifica

if anything it just reinforces my gut theory that they're working together


----------



## mewtini

yeah but if he’s still catching up then it’s. like.


----------



## Trebek

i guess? the vibe i got was that he had just come back to thread and made that post before reading through everything else, but that vibe could swing either way depending on future posts


----------



## Trebek

lmao ninjad. must wait at least 5 seconds


----------



## Vipera Magnifica

@Tofu In the event that I die and have not yet claimed my role, I want you to tell the thread my role so that there can be no confusion about it.

I have verified the legality of this maneuver with JackPK.



Spoiler: coded message for Tofu



Question 1: What was the name of the drunk guy at improv who shat himself?

Kevin = A
Marcus = B
Noah = C

Question 2: What was the first pool movie we watched?

The Joker = D
The Lighthouse = E
Uncut Gems = F

Question 3: What is the name of the foster rabbit in your living room?

Mochi = G
Boris = H
Raul = I

Put together the letters to determine my role

ADG = Vanilla Townie
ADH = Jailer
ADI = Watcher
AEG = Role Cop
AEH = Lyncher
AEI = Guardian Angel
AFG = Vanilla Townie
AFH = Doctor
AFI = Alien
BDG = Universal Backup
BDH = Mayor
BDI = Mafia Spy
BEG = Lover Maker
BEH = Cop
BEI = Bodyguard
BFG = Vanilla Townie
BFH = Lie Detector
BFI = Nexus
CDG = Tracker
CDH = Serial Killer
CDI = Executioner
CEG = Oracle
CEH = Bus Driver
CEI = Vigilante
CFG = Parity Cop
CFH = Vanilla Townie
CFI = Motion Detector



In the event that I die and flip mafia, disregard this message.


----------



## mewtini

ok i said i was going to come back and actually post but i think what i would have said has already been posted (especially wrt being suspicious of people who've voiced discontent with The Numbers argument)


Tofu said:


> I didn't read vm's statistic thing as a Skylar wagon.


just to be clear i fully understand that he didn't intend (or says he didn't intend) for that to be 100% of his push, but he IS still making a push so i don't really know what this sentence means ... ?

vm continues pinging me and i'm maybe irrationally frustrated but ... i'd disengage if it weren't _still _the main thing getting talked about. i am beginning to care a bit less about my "this seems too brazen/impassioned for a wolf" rationale for maybe seeing him as town because there is something that feels calculated to me about his posting. idk. tinfoil maybe VM is bussing someone lmfao.

if i had to lynch someone exactly now i think it would probably still be emmy because Gut Feeling, but it's the sort of gut feeling that could be explained by "she doesn't have time to hang around inthread as much as tvt." she was a lot more easily swayed during tvtropes and part of me wants to say that maybe her play here is just that she's got a game under her belt but ... idk, her dodging questions and sort of fanning flames feels bad to me


----------



## mewtini

ok and now vm posted and i'm immediately like "oh no. this sounds towny" again


----------



## IndigoClaudia

Bluwiikoon said:


> Emmy is just town and doesn't want to get lynched


This one is accurate.


----------



## kyeugh

Vipera Magnifica said:


> if anything it just reinforces my gut theory that they're working together


we are remember?


kyeugh said:


> fuck. sorry rnp/mr ultracool, i was just weighing you guys down anyway. good luck


----------



## Tofu

I vote *Mr. Ultracool*


----------



## kyeugh

Vipera Magnifica said:


> and how do we know skylar wasn't the one fishing to get the vig to say something?


“i think i know who the vig is”
vig: “whoa, nice! how’d you guess it was me?”


----------



## Trebek

was on mobile for a while, but back on my computer now so i will be more alive/present.

and yeah, tbh i see skylars vigpost as too upfront to be a wifom


----------



## kyeugh

i think i don’t really understand the ultracool thing but i’m not sure i fully believe the emmy thing either? hmmmm.


----------



## mewtini

i don't really believe the emmy thing 100% either but i believe in it more than other things i think?


----------



## mewtini

also imo the emmy thing is stronger than the ultracool argument (maybe. just unclear because. ultracool hasn't really posted a ton)


----------



## Trebek

mewtini said:


> i don't really believe the emmy thing 100% either but i believe in it more than other things i think?


thats where im standing right now as well. it just feels like a better decision in my brain rn than the ultracool line


----------



## JackPK

Reminder: The day phase will end in *23 hours 30 minutes*.

Active votes:
kyeugh votes Mr. Ultracool (#1299)
Vipera Magnifica votes Mr. Ultracool (#1326)
RedneckPhoenix votes kyeugh (#1453)
mewtini votes IndigoEmmy (#1472)
Trebek votes IndigoEmmy (#1473)
rari_teh votes IndigoEmmy (#1482)
Herbe votes IndigoEmmy (#1489)
Keldeo votes Mr. Ultracool (#1567)
Tofu votes Mr. Ultracool (#1604)



Spoiler: Full vote history



Active votes bolded.

Vipera Magnifica votes kyeugh (#1270)
*kyeugh votes Mr. Ultracool (#1299)
Vipera Magnifica votes Mr. Ultracool (#1326)*
mewtini votes Mr. Ultracool (#1327)
mewtini unvotes (#1340)
mewtini votes kyeugh (#1357)
mewtini unvotes (#1359)
*RedneckPhoenix votes kyeugh (#1453)
mewtini votes IndigoEmmy (#1472)
Trebek votes IndigoEmmy (#1473)
rari_teh votes IndigoEmmy (#1482)
Herbe votes IndigoEmmy (#1489)
Keldeo votes Mr. Ultracool (#1567)
Tofu votes Mr. Ultracool (#1604)*


----------



## IndigoClaudia

*Mr Ultracool*

Because i need to vote. Sorry.


----------



## Mr. Ultracool

IndigoEmmy said:


> Announcement to all cops (if there are any): Please check kyeugh tonight.


Telling the cop whom to check seems quite fishy, too - what if the Maf has a Watcher? 
*IndigoEmmy*


----------



## mewtini

can you elaborate on that? that's a post that felt like pretty normal emmy to me actually


----------



## mewtini

oh wait, i see what you mean. ok. i think that post is NAI for her but i understand


----------



## mewtini

i feel kind of fine about ultracool tbh.


----------



## rari_teh

all caught up!
btw hi mist ^^



Trebek said:


> i didnt switch my vote over to stryke after his vt claim bc i personally found it more likely than not to be true, but i didnt trust my gut enough to try and say anything about it / convince people to not flip stryke


…and in the end this was probably surprisingly the best move, bc if you managed to flip myuma she’d flip green and you’d look bad



Keldeo said:


> Oh and imo, Rari in general has felt quick to push against suspicion this game. I don't remember off the top of my head exactly who they were defending, though.


you’re possibly thinking of the infamous time I light-defended Trebek and then later when I defended myuma after you fished for a possible wagon
tbh I’m always quick to push against suspicion when I’m pretty sure the suspect is town



Tofu said:


> Rari I just think is like good at mafia or something I'm not sure what to think. We played Push the Button together idk much about you but we won as aliens, so, clearly.


your praise flatters me tbh, though you should keep in mind that a) this is only my second mafia game and b) while we won as aliens in push the button, that’s because I was voted out with a human


----------



## mewtini

@Mr. Ultracool i forget, what's your experience level again?


----------



## mewtini

oh yeah, hi mist!!! my alien bff <333


----------



## IndigoClaudia

Wait so far am i just about to get voted to be lynched. Or is that ultracool. There's no substantial evidence either way though right?


----------



## mewtini

it's like 5 you 4 ultracool

not "evidence" but there has been some casing


----------



## mewtini

there's like a full day left though :p


----------



## Trebek

the way i see it (at least this is my mentality), the votes are mostly indications from the voters of who they want to hear more from / further discussion about in order to make better decisions


----------



## rari_teh

Keldeo said:


> @rari_teh can you point to some specific posts of ILS's that make you think that? What do you think of koko and Butterfree's points about his flavor speculation, or does that not really sway you that much?


I specifically remember that mewtini asked his opinion on something mid-D1 and he simply did not answer
then much later (prob over one meatspace day) she mentioned how he was kind of active at that point but still ignored her question
and then he acknowledged it with something like “haha, right?” and didn’t answer!
I couldn’t find the posts because “ils” is too short for the xenforo search gods and I wasn’t able to find his ack by doing a ISO on him, so I may be misremembering something, but I remember that pinged me as suss

also this post


I liek Squirtles said:


> Outside of Macavity I doubt any cat was purposely chosen to be mafia, simply because none of them are explictly evil (besides Macavity himself). I only think Mistoffelees is mafia because of the flavor text. We could easily be seeing mafia Victoria or Jennyanydots and I wouldn't be surprised.


while admittedly NAI, does smell like a maf whose cat is obviously evil (e.g. Growltiger) and is hopefully trying to set up town‘s mind that the cats’ roles in the movie don’t reflect their alignments, which frankly doesn’t make sense

wrt flavour speculation I believe it’s not even close to being alignment-indicative, specially considering that no shenanigans seem to have occurred up to this point


----------



## IndigoClaudia

Ok you reeeeaaallly don't want to vote for me. Remember last time?


----------



## IndigoClaudia

rari_teh said:


> cat


Welp should i reveal what cat i am?


----------



## Trebek

IndigoEmmy said:


> Ok you reeeeaaallly don't want to vote for me. Remember last time?


i mean, not everyone here played in tvt, but beyond that, the events of tvt wouldn't have any bearing on what alignment you flipped this game, so i don't think thats a necessarily valid defense


----------



## mewtini

IndigoEmmy said:


> Ok you reeeeaaallly don't want to vote for me. Remember last time?


i mean tbh last time was pretty different. i don't think seshas should have really played it much differently


----------



## IndigoClaudia

Trebek said:


> IndigoEmmy said:
> 
> 
> 
> Ok you reeeeaaallly don't want to vote for me. Remember last time?
> 
> 
> 
> i mean, not everyone here played in tvt, but beyond that, the events of tvt wouldn't have any bearing on what alignment you flipped this game, so i don't think thats a necessarily valid defense
Click to expand...

(I'm trying to guilt people into not voting for me lol)


----------



## IndigoClaudia

mewtini said:


> IndigoEmmy said:
> 
> 
> 
> Ok you reeeeaaallly don't want to vote for me. Remember last time?
> 
> 
> 
> i mean tbh last time was pretty different. i don't think seshas should have really played it much differently
Click to expand...




IndigoEmmy said:


> Trebek said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> IndigoEmmy said:
> 
> 
> 
> Ok you reeeeaaallly don't want to vote for me. Remember last time?
> 
> 
> 
> i mean, not everyone here played in tvt, but beyond that, the events of tvt wouldn't have any bearing on what alignment you flipped this game, so i don't think thats a necessarily valid defense
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> (I'm trying to guilt people into not voting for me lol)
Click to expand...


That was all a joke btw


----------



## mewtini

IndigoEmmy said:


> Welp should i reveal what cat i am?


just in case cat role matters, i wouldn't reveal unless you're really in danger


----------



## rari_teh

Trebek said:


> the way i see it (at least this is my mentality), the votes are mostly indications from the voters of who they want to hear more from / further discussion about in order to make better decisions


this is my mentality as well tbh
this is a new era of rari



IndigoEmmy said:


> rari_teh said:
> 
> 
> 
> cat
> 
> 
> 
> Welp should i reveal what cat i am?
Click to expand...

if you feel comfortable doing so…? I wouldn’t do it in the moment bc we have no idea if that could be used against us by some wacky role and there’s plenty of day ahead, but


----------



## Trebek

IndigoEmmy said:


> That was all a joke btw


i support jokes as much as the next guy, but i would still be interested in hearing your Thoughts about the game at large. i feel like most of what we have gotten has been reads w/o explanation and question dodging


----------



## IndigoClaudia

Ok unless i'm about to get lynched i won't reveal what cat i am. Because i am certainly not an evil looking cat


----------



## IndigoClaudia

Trebek said:


> IndigoEmmy said:
> 
> 
> 
> That was all a joke btw
> 
> 
> 
> i support jokes as much as the next guy, but i would still be interested in hearing your Thoughts about the game at large. i feel like most of what we have gotten has been reads w/o explanation and question dodging
Click to expand...

I don't have too many thoughts until people reveal there roles.


----------



## mewtini

honestly i agree with ils that none of the cats other than macavity are really 'evil looking' so tbh it probably doesn't matter but. what if there's a trope killer. but for cat names.


rari_teh said:


> I specifically remember that mewtini asked his opinion on something mid-D1 and he simply did not answer
> then much later (prob over one meatspace day) she mentioned how he was kind of active at that point but still ignored her question
> and then he acknowledged it with something like “haha, right?” and didn’t answer!


i don't really remember the last thing happening but yeah the rest of it is the 763 exchange i keep referring back to

tbh although i'm on emmy i'm concerned that this discussion isn't going to resolve all that well or interestingly (partially because of the ambivalence of both wagons rn). i think some of us just feel like she feels different from tvtropes and others don't feel that way


----------



## IndigoClaudia

mewtini said:


> tbh although i'm on emmy i'm concerned that this discussion isn't going to resolve all that well or interestingly (partially because of the ambivalence of both wagons rn). i think some of us just feel like she feels different from tvtropes and others don't feel that way


I'm just trying a new way of playing tbh.


----------



## Mr. Ultracool

IndigoEmmy said:


> Ok unless i'm about to get lynched i won't reveal what cat i am. Because i am certainly not an evil looking cat


Well, you've made it pretty clear that you're a power role of some kind, thus painting yourself as a prime target for the mafia to kill toNight. So, it would perhaps be helpful for the Town if you claim before you (most likely) die?


----------



## mewtini

i mean. idrk how to articulate it because it's gut feeling and i really would hate to ML her again hahaha, but like. emmy wasn't content heavy in tvtropes either, but she also was really active and didn't independently FoS people. her push on skylar (sorry to mention this again) is like considerably more concerted than most of what she did in tvtropes and the question-dodging feels weird to chalk up to a New Playstyle



Mr. Ultracool said:


> Well, you've made it pretty clear that you're a power role of some kind


i don't really think she did


----------



## mewtini

i might end up scouting out a new wagon anyway but i want to put it out there that i am #wondering about this


----------



## IndigoClaudia

Mr. Ultracool said:


> IndigoEmmy said:
> 
> 
> 
> Ok unless i'm about to get lynched i won't reveal what cat i am. Because i am certainly not an evil looking cat
> 
> 
> 
> Well, you've made it pretty clear that you're a power role of some kind, thus painting yourself as a prime target for the mafia to kill toNight. So, it would perhaps be helpful for the Town if you claim before you (most likely) die?
Click to expand...

I'm Alonzo. The mafia can't kill me unless they try to kill me three nights in a row or i'm the only one left. So basically, i'm here for the long haul.


----------



## mewtini

oh also, fwiw, the town power role claim probably matters slightly less than it normally does when like 2/3 of the mafia's possible targets are power roles?


----------



## Keldeo

I’m like not here but 

Mr. Ultracool so do you think Emmy is town or mafia...? Do you have any other reads you want to share?


----------



## Trebek

Mr. Ultracool said:


> IndigoEmmy said:
> 
> 
> 
> Ok unless i'm about to get lynched i won't reveal what cat i am. Because i am certainly not an evil looking cat
> 
> 
> 
> Well, you've made it pretty clear that you're a power role of some kind, thus painting yourself as a prime target for the mafia to kill toNight. So, it would perhaps be helpful for the Town if you claim before you (most likely) die?
Click to expand...

hmmmmm. this seems a little pushy? i feel like my stance on emmy is more towards vt/w, since (obviously i dont know emmy's brain so this is speculation) power role emmy would have more of a reason to actively claim/defend herself than just like, trying to guilt people lol. this frankly comes across as pushing for information / trying to push discussion off of yourself

maybe im reading into this with too much of a triggerhappy mentality, but it seems off.


----------



## IndigoClaudia

Trebek said:


> Mr. Ultracool said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> IndigoEmmy said:
> 
> 
> 
> Ok unless i'm about to get lynched i won't reveal what cat i am. Because i am certainly not an evil looking cat
> 
> 
> 
> Well, you've made it pretty clear that you're a power role of some kind, thus painting yourself as a prime target for the mafia to kill toNight. So, it would perhaps be helpful for the Town if you claim before you (most likely) die?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> hmmmmm. this seems a little pushy? i feel like my stance on emmy is more towards vt/w, since (obviously i dont know emmy's brain so this is speculation) power role emmy would have more of a reason to actively claim/defend herself than just like, trying to guilt people lol. this frankly comes across as pushing for information / trying to push discussion off of yourself
> 
> maybe im reading into this with too much of a triggerhappy mentality, but it seems off.
Click to expand...

I'm just a very durable towny. I can get lynched though easily. :C


----------



## Keldeo

That’s a weird power but also a weirdly specific power and idrk what to make of it

Three nights in a row is, uh, a lot

Do any Cats lore knowers habe useful info about Alonzo?


----------



## mewtini

it's kind of depressing that emmy just claimed tbh


----------



## mewtini

but also ... weird power?


----------



## Herbe

I've got a lot going on in my personal life right now, I might have to go flora-esque and check out of the game for a couple days. sorry everyone


----------



## Keldeo

Oh wait that’s the stage show wiki? Is Alonzo in the film?


----------



## mewtini

Keldeo said:


> Oh wait that’s the stage show wiki? Is Alonzo in the film?


yup though i do not know anything about him.


----------



## IndigoClaudia

Keldeo said:


> Oh wait that’s the stage show wiki? Is Alonzo in the film?


I have no idea. It was linked in my role PM.


----------



## Herbe

*unvote *cause i haven't been caught up w the thread so i'm uninformed rn


----------



## IndigoClaudia

IndigoEmmy said:


> Keldeo said:
> 
> 
> 
> Oh wait that’s the stage show wiki? Is Alonzo in the film?
> 
> 
> 
> I have no idea. It was linked in my role PM.
Click to expand...

There was another link if you want it. Idk i got two but i picked the most relevant.


----------



## Keldeo

Herbe. Take care.

Also false alarm, Alonzo is indeed in the film, although idk how his role there makes him a three shot bulletproof(?)


----------



## mewtini

tbh i feel like something really weird just happened but i odn't know exactly what


----------



## Trebek

yeah, definitely going to be rereading the last few minutes quite a few times in order to let everything soak in


----------



## IndigoClaudia

mewtini said:


> tbh i feel like something really weird just happened but i odn't know exactly what


I actually do too.


----------



## IndigoClaudia

I should also mention that my role PM said something "mysterious" would happen on the fifth night.


----------



## mewtini

emmy (this isn't me suspicion throwing) why'd you decide to claim just now?


----------



## Keldeo

I mean I kind of don’t know how my cat is my role, so that’s not really useful.

I am, anyway, leaning to the side of thinking that the actual cat is probably not relevant to alignment besides the really obvious ones like Macavity, so I’m only inherently suspicious of that claim if someone counterclaims Alonzo


----------



## IndigoClaudia

mewtini said:


> emmy (this isn't me suspicion throwing) why'd you decide to claim just now?


Because i felt pressured.


----------



## Keldeo

IndigoEmmy said:


> mewtini said:
> 
> 
> 
> emmy (this isn't me suspicion throwing) why'd you decide to claim just now?
> 
> 
> 
> Because i felt pressured.
Click to expand...

No pressure as I ask this, but why did you feel pressured? There’s a day left in the phase.


----------



## mewtini

Trebek said:


> Mr. Ultracool said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> IndigoEmmy said:
> 
> 
> 
> Ok unless i'm about to get lynched i won't reveal what cat i am. Because i am certainly not an evil looking cat
> 
> 
> 
> Well, you've made it pretty clear that you're a power role of some kind, thus painting yourself as a prime target for the mafia to kill toNight. So, it would perhaps be helpful for the Town if you claim before you (most likely) die?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> hmmmmm. this seems a little pushy? i feel like my stance on emmy is more towards vt/w, since (obviously i dont know emmy's brain so this is speculation) power role emmy would have more of a reason to actively claim/defend herself than just like, trying to guilt people lol. this frankly comes across as pushing for information / trying to push discussion off of yourself
> 
> maybe im reading into this with too much of a triggerhappy mentality, but it seems off.
Click to expand...

idk what to make of this either but i think emmy tries to guilt town regardless of her role, but "claim before you die" could be fine ... ? the 'most likely' is awkward though ...



Keldeo said:


> I mean I kind of don’t know how my cat is my role, so that’s not really useful.


same here. it's also why i was :/ about ILS flavorspec, i don't think cat = role. at least not in my case


----------



## Trebek

Hmmm, i cant tell if i want to devote extra brain power into hyperlink-meta. my first thought was "hmm its weird that the link was for the stage production and not the film", but frankly we have no way of knowing if the role pm's are consistent between everyone. it's very possible that emmy got both hyperlinks.

but at the same time, this feels like one of those movie moments where if people forget the teeny detail thats bothering them, then everyone dies. so at the end of the day, idk, but its something to think about


----------



## IndigoClaudia

Keldeo said:


> IndigoEmmy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> mewtini said:
> 
> 
> 
> emmy (this isn't me suspicion throwing) why'd you decide to claim just now?
> 
> 
> 
> Because i felt pressured.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No pressure as I ask this, but why did you feel pressured? There’s a day left in the phase.
Click to expand...

idk actually and i kind of regret it. It's not really something i'm worried about because the mafia have to spend three whole days trying to kill me so it's a better idea for them to find someone else with a power role.


----------



## mewtini

IndigoEmmy said:


> Because i felt pressured.


by who? i thought the majority was telling you not to claim

wait, it's not even three-shot bulletproof, it's _three nights in a row_. that really is weirdly specific


----------



## rari_teh

IndigoEmmy said:


> I'm Alonzo. The mafia can't kill me unless they try to kill me three nights in a row or i'm the only one left. So basically, i'm here for the long haul.


I don’t buy this tbh? because…



Keldeo said:


> Oh wait that’s the stage show wiki? Is Alonzo in the film?


he is a very minor character in the film. The Cats Musical Wiki’s page on the 2019 movie lists 14 cats as main characters (obviously none of them being Alonzo). 14 is super duper coincidentally the minimum number of players for this game as per JackPK, who also said that the rest would be filled with vanilla town/mafia roles.

this claim smells fishier than nam pla.


----------



## Trebek

mewtini said:


> i think emmy tries to guilt town regardless of her role


this could be entirely true, my thought process at the time was "would vanilla emmy react differently than power emmy" but my thought process there is biased bc i know how id react in that situation


----------



## IndigoClaudia

Trebek said:


> emmy got both hyperlinks.


i did


----------



## IndigoClaudia

Trebek said:


> mewtini said:
> 
> 
> 
> i think emmy tries to guilt town regardless of her role
> 
> 
> 
> this could be entirely true, my thought process at the time was "would vanilla emmy react differently than power emmy" but my thought process there is biased bc i know how id react in that situation
Click to expand...

Power Emmy is like 90% Quieter and 110% Memey-er


----------



## mewtini

rari_teh said:


> he is a very minor character in the film. The Cats Musical Wiki’s page on the 2019 movie lists 14 cats as main characters (obviously none of them being Alonzo). 14 is super duper coincidentally the minimum number of players for this game as per JackPK, who also said that the rest would be filled with vanilla town/mafia roles.


this is actually a pretty good catch tbh.
did anyone else get both hyperlinks ... ? i know this is splitting hairs but my role pm link was to the 2019 version


----------



## Trebek

rari_teh said:


> IndigoEmmy said:
> 
> 
> 
> I'm Alonzo. The mafia can't kill me unless they try to kill me three nights in a row or i'm the only one left. So basically, i'm here for the long haul.
> 
> 
> 
> I don’t buy this tbh? because…
> 
> 
> 
> Keldeo said:
> 
> 
> 
> Oh wait that’s the stage show wiki? Is Alonzo in the film?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> he is a very minor character in the film. The Cats Musical Wiki’s page on the 2019 movie lists 14 cats as main characters (obviously none of them being Alonzo). 14 is super duper coincidentally the minimum number of players for this game as per JackPK, who also said that the rest would be filled with vanilla town/mafia roles.
> 
> this claim smells fishier than nam pla.
Click to expand...

honestly, im glad someone else brought this up too, i could tell if i was going crazy about the link thing

one possible line (im not sure if i actually believe this) is that Alonzo was intentionally chosen in order to reduce the risk of someone else counter-cat-claiming?


----------



## IndigoClaudia

rari_teh said:


> this claim smells fishier than nam pla.


I was confused about this too. I'm not sure the reason for this tbh.


----------



## mewtini

Trebek said:


> one possible line (im not sure if i actually believe this) is that Alonzo was intentionally chosen in order to reduce the risk of someone else counter-cat-claiming?


too tinfoil-y i think unless we go down the path of "mafia coached her into that" :/
ugh i really do not want to end up getting screwed over by me tunneling emmy again


----------



## Trebek

mewtini said:


> rari_teh said:
> 
> 
> 
> he is a very minor character in the film. The Cats Musical Wiki’s page on the 2019 movie lists 14 cats as main characters (obviously none of them being Alonzo). 14 is super duper coincidentally the minimum number of players for this game as per JackPK, who also said that the rest would be filled with vanilla town/mafia roles.
> 
> 
> 
> this is actually a pretty good catch tbh.
> did anyone else get both hyperlinks ... ? i know this is splitting hairs but my role pm link was to the 2019 version
Click to expand...

mine also was. this is what i was worried about thinking too hard about earlier, but i honestly dont see a reason why Jack would give some people just one link and other people two different links


----------



## Trebek

mewtini said:


> Trebek said:
> 
> 
> 
> one possible line (im not sure if i actually believe this) is that Alonzo was intentionally chosen in order to reduce the risk of someone else counter-cat-claiming?
> 
> 
> 
> too tinfoil-y i think unless we go down the path of "mafia coached her into that" :/
Click to expand...

fair enough. still trying to figure out which of my Thoughts are good and which are tinfoil. still sorta sus about the whole situation tho


----------



## IndigoClaudia

Trebek said:


> mewtini said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rari_teh said:
> 
> 
> 
> he is a very minor character in the film. The Cats Musical Wiki’s page on the 2019 movie lists 14 cats as main characters (obviously none of them being Alonzo). 14 is super duper coincidentally the minimum number of players for this game as per JackPK, who also said that the rest would be filled with vanilla town/mafia roles.
> 
> 
> 
> this is actually a pretty good catch tbh.
> did anyone else get both hyperlinks ... ? i know this is splitting hairs but my role pm link was to the 2019 version
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> mine also was. this is what i was worried about thinking too hard about earlier, but i honestly dont see a reason why Jack would give some people just one link and other people two different links
Click to expand...

They could be inconsistent idk. 

So nobody else got two links? i did so no one else did? weird.


----------



## mewtini

anyway i kind of think this might be a weird line of reasoning to descend fully into. like. it's possible she just saw the cat name, looked it up, and produced a link right?


----------



## mewtini

- ok and now i realize that the dialogue here shows that that doesn't really work, actually


----------



## IndigoClaudia

mewtini said:


> anyway i kind of think this might be a weird line of reasoning to descend fully into. like. it's possible she just saw the cat name, looked it up, and produced a link right?


I don't even know where on the internet one could find random characters from the movie Cats (2019)


----------



## IndigoClaudia

IndigoEmmy said:


> mewtini said:
> 
> 
> 
> anyway i kind of think this might be a weird line of reasoning to descend fully into. like. it's possible she just saw the cat name, looked it up, and produced a link right?
> 
> 
> 
> I don't even know where on the internet one could find random characters from the movie Cats (2019)
Click to expand...

It's a wonder jack found them at all


----------



## Keldeo

I kind of don’t want to read into links - the reason I brought Alonzo in the show up was because I was confused about the link being to the show wiki, but talking about links in PMs gets into weird, sort of outside of the scope of the game stuff imo.


----------



## mewtini

IndigoEmmy said:


> I don't even know where on the internet one could find random characters from the movie Cats (2019)


idrk what this means but to clarify -
i was defending you there and saying that maybe you saw the name alonzo in your pm, looked it up, and ran into the stage performance link and posted that here (and not the exact link you got in your pm)


----------



## mewtini

but i think this is not really the path to go down probably


----------



## mewtini

IndigoEmmy said:


> It's a wonder jack found them at all


huh?


----------



## IndigoClaudia

mewtini said:


> IndigoEmmy said:
> 
> 
> 
> I don't even know where on the internet one could find random characters from the movie Cats (2019)
> 
> 
> 
> idrk what this means but to clarify -
> i was defending you there and saying that maybe you saw the name alonzo in your pm, looked it up, and ran into the stage performance link and posted that here (and not the exact link you got in your pm)
Click to expand...

lol i thought you meant i googled a character from cats (2019) and i linked it.


----------



## IndigoClaudia

mewtini said:


> IndigoEmmy said:
> 
> 
> 
> It's a wonder jack found them at all
> 
> 
> 
> huh?
Click to expand...

I mean where does one find a Cats (2019) wiki on the internet. I was mostly joking.


----------



## Trebek

Keldeo said:


> I kind of don’t want to read into links - the reason I brought Alonzo in the show up was because I was confused about the link being to the show wiki, but talking about links in PMs gets into weird, sort of outside of the scope of the game stuff imo.


yeah, i think i am going to stop thinking about PM meta, i dont want to be stuck in tinfoil hat land for the rest of the Day. i still have some reservations about the actual claim itself, tho


----------



## IndigoClaudia

Trebek said:


> Keldeo said:
> 
> 
> 
> I kind of don’t want to read into links - the reason I brought Alonzo in the show up was because I was confused about the link being to the show wiki, but talking about links in PMs gets into weird, sort of outside of the scope of the game stuff imo.
> 
> 
> 
> yeah, i think i am going to stop thinking about PM meta, i dont want to be stuck in tinfoil hat land for the rest of the Day. i still have some reservations about the actual claim itself, tho
Click to expand...

This is all a good idea. Private Message links really don't have to do with the actually game.


----------



## IndigoClaudia

IndigoEmmy said:


> Private Message links really don't have to do with the actually game.


Actual game.


----------



## Keldeo

Uh, I guess ultimately, if your cat name is Alonzo please speak up because that means for sure that Emmy is lying.

I guess I can see what rari/mewt/Trebek kinda are saying about the minor character deal, but that’s kind of small and I need to reread and puzzle out this whole sequence again I think. I’m with mewtini that I feel like something important just happened but idk what it is yet lol

Trebek, what are your reservations about the claim itself?

Emmy, do you have any other reads or reasons for them besides the ones that you have earlier?

I have a bit of a headache so I’m gonna actually catch up later ^^” Stay hydrated, friends!


----------



## IndigoClaudia

Keldeo said:


> mmy, do you have any other reads or reasons for them besides the ones that you have earlier?


No but i encourage people to roleclaim or something.


----------



## IndigoClaudia

IndigoEmmy said:


> Keldeo said:
> 
> 
> 
> mmy, do you have any other reads or reasons for them besides the ones that you have earlier?
> 
> 
> 
> No but i encourage people to roleclaim or something.
Click to expand...

Unless your like vigilante or cop or whatever.


----------



## Keldeo

Why


IndigoEmmy said:


> IndigoEmmy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Keldeo said:
> 
> 
> 
> mmy, do you have any other reads or reasons for them besides the ones that you have earlier?
> 
> 
> 
> No but i encourage people to roleclaim or something.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Unless your like vigilante or cop or whatever.
Click to expand...

? Why?


----------



## Keldeo

idk what happened with that quote, sorry


----------



## mewtini

Keldeo said:


> I guess I can see what rari/mewt/Trebek kinda are saying about the minor character deal


ftr i don't fully subscribe to it, i think it's interesting though and seems like another classic town!rari find



IndigoEmmy said:


> No but i encourage people to roleclaim or something.


no tbh
it'll narrow down "more powerful" PRs


----------



## Trebek

honestly, my gut is just telling me that its a weird role power that conveniently explains night immunity if emmy is mafia. there is also a possibility that emmy has a different power role and wants to avoid being night targeted, but i feel like if i was mafia i would recognize and try to kill her anyways.

i just have trouble putting faith in the claim, regardless of which way she eventually flips


----------



## IndigoClaudia

mewtini said:


> Keldeo said:
> 
> 
> 
> I guess I can see what rari/mewt/Trebek kinda are saying about the minor character deal
> 
> 
> 
> ftr i don't fully subscribe to it, i think it's interesting though and seems like another classic town!rari find
> 
> 
> 
> IndigoEmmy said:
> 
> 
> 
> No but i encourage people to roleclaim or something.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> no tbh
> it'll narrow down "more powerful" PRs
Click to expand...

I just don't want to be lynching random people.
Actually just because i haven't seen her on much i'd have to say butterfree is a bit suspicious to me imao but it's not enough to be a vote.


----------



## mewtini

yeah i need to go back over this because something fucked up just happened imo
i don't know who to blame/FoS coming out of it yet but atm i feel fine about keeping my emmyvote :v


----------



## mewtini

IndigoEmmy said:


> Actually just because i haven't seen her on much i'd have to say butterfree is a bit suspicious to me imao but it's not enough to be a vote.


what about other people who've not been on much :|


----------



## Trebek

also 3 nights in a row honestly feels like it could be unbalanced. like if i had that role i would 100% be trying to play myself up as a PR to bait mafia attacks


----------



## mewtini

huff

ryan do you still have feelings about ultracool? iirc (lazy, sorry) you thought he could be trying to divert attention?


----------



## mewtini

also yeah i just kind of am disbelieving emmy's roleclaim out of hand right now because it literally would make her effectively NK immune


----------



## Trebek

urgh idk what to think bc im still weirded out by ultracool's last post


----------



## Trebek

ok wow ninjad lemme actually respond to that question hehe


----------



## Trebek

Mr. Ultracool said:


> IndigoEmmy said:
> 
> 
> 
> Ok unless i'm about to get lynched i won't reveal what cat i am. Because i am certainly not an evil looking cat
> 
> 
> 
> Well, you've made it pretty clear that you're a power role of some kind, thus painting yourself as a prime target for the mafia to kill toNight. So, it would perhaps be helpful for the Town if you claim before you (most likely) die?
Click to expand...

basically, my main angst about this is that it seems like a super convenient way for ultracool to try to divert attention from his train over to emmy's train. i would feel a lot better about this post if he didnt currently have however many votes on him, which admittedly might be a logical fallacy on my end


----------



## IndigoClaudia

Trebek said:


> also 3 nights in a row honestly feels like it could be unbalanced. like if i had that role i would 100% be trying to play myself up as a PR to bait mafia attacks


I ruined my potential waaah i'm actually a cop mafia please remember i'm a cop i totally lied about my role from before.


----------



## IndigoClaudia

IndigoEmmy said:


> Trebek said:
> 
> 
> 
> also 3 nights in a row honestly feels like it could be unbalanced. like if i had that role i would 100% be trying to play myself up as a PR to bait mafia attacks
> 
> 
> 
> I ruined my potential waaah i'm actually a cop mafia please remember i'm a cop i totally lied about my role from before.
Click to expand...

this is a joke btw. 
To mafia: Or is it?


----------



## IndigoClaudia

mewtini said:


> IndigoEmmy said:
> 
> 
> 
> Actually just because i haven't seen her on much i'd have to say butterfree is a bit suspicious to me imao but it's not enough to be a vote.
> 
> 
> 
> what about other people who've not been on much :|
Click to expand...

Well those people are also suspicious.

idk i'm not very good at mafia lol.


----------



## rari_teh

mewtini said:


> did anyone else get both hyperlinks ... ? i know this is splitting hairs but my role pm link was to the 2019 version


I didn’t and I doubt anyone “else” did tbh


Trebek said:


> one possible line (im not sure if i actually believe this) is that Alonzo was intentionally chosen in order to reduce the risk of someone else counter-cat-claiming?


without a shade of doubt

sorry, but I don’t even understand how people actually took that claim at face value
the role would be absurdly OP if true and the cat, if in the game, would very obviously be a VT or a vanilla mafia

@IndigoEmmy if you’re not lying, since you’re online, pls provide within three minutes the MU wiki link to your power role that JackPK provided in your rolecard


----------



## rari_teh

rari_teh said:


> @IndigoEmmy if you’re not lying, since you’re online, pls provide within three minutes the MU wiki link to your power role that JackPK provided in your rolecard


sorry if this came out as harsh tbh, not my intention. it’s just that in my head there is precisely 0% chance that your claim is real


----------



## Keldeo

rari_teh said:


> mewtini said:
> 
> 
> 
> did anyone else get both hyperlinks ... ? i know this is splitting hairs but my role pm link was to the 2019 version
> 
> 
> 
> I didn’t and I doubt anyone “else” did tbh
> 
> 
> Trebek said:
> 
> 
> 
> one possible line (im not sure if i actually believe this) is that Alonzo was intentionally chosen in order to reduce the risk of someone else counter-cat-claiming?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> without a shade of doubt
> 
> sorry, but I don’t even understand how people actually took that claim at face value
> the role would be absurdly OP if true and the cat, if in the game, would very obviously be a VT or a vanilla mafia
> 
> @IndigoEmmy if you’re not lying, since you’re online, pls provide within three minutes the MU wiki link to your power role that JackPK provided in your rolecard
Click to expand...

This is getting into “how many vowels are in the town win condition in your role card within 5 minutes” territory and that’s just like... I would rather catch people based on their posts or their actions haha


----------



## kyeugh

mixed thoughts here. two main theories i’m entertaining.
i don’t think emmy came up with that role. it doesn’t really sound like her imo, and it is very specific. alonzo also seems a bit random. imo either:

this is her actual role, and she’s telling the truth.
her scumbuddies invented this in case she ever had to roleclaim, and she jumped on the first post urging her to do so.
i think in a world where emmy is scum, i’m also suspecting vm/tofu. tofu’s last post has me considering that a bit more strongly, but for now my okay feelings on vm have me more inclined to believe emmy is telling the truth right now.


----------



## IndigoClaudia

rari_teh said:


> mewtini said:
> 
> 
> 
> did anyone else get both hyperlinks ... ? i know this is splitting hairs but my role pm link was to the 2019 version
> 
> 
> 
> I didn’t and I doubt anyone “else” did tbh
> 
> 
> Trebek said:
> 
> 
> 
> one possible line (im not sure if i actually believe this) is that Alonzo was intentionally chosen in order to reduce the risk of someone else counter-cat-claiming?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> without a shade of doubt
> 
> sorry, but I don’t even understand how people actually took that claim at face value
> the role would be absurdly OP if true and the cat, if in the game, would very obviously be a VT or a vanilla mafia
> 
> @IndigoEmmy if you’re not lying, since you’re online, pls provide within three minutes the MU wiki link to your power role that JackPK provided in your rolecard
Click to expand...

Alright let me see if i can find it.
...

I can't find it. Maybe it was made up?


----------



## Keldeo

Not saying I don’t share your doubt Rari, just questioning the... viability of this line of questioning 

Sorry, I should probably actually stop posting for a bit.


----------



## Bluwiikoon

*IndigoEmmy* tbh :( Sorry Indigo, this is all too suspect for me


----------



## IndigoClaudia

Bluwiikoon said:


> *IndigoEmmy* tbh :( Sorry Indigo, this is all too suspect for me


Alright. Time to actual roleclaim?


----------



## Trebek

IndigoEmmy said:


> Bluwiikoon said:
> 
> 
> 
> *IndigoEmmy* tbh :( Sorry Indigo, this is all too suspect for me
> 
> 
> 
> Alright. Time to actual roleclaim?
Click to expand...

:o


----------



## rari_teh

Keldeo said:


> I would rather catch people based on their posts or their actions haha


boldly fakeclaiming at the face of the smallest of pressures is quite the action in my book tbh


----------



## rari_teh

IndigoEmmy said:


> Bluwiikoon said:
> 
> 
> 
> *IndigoEmmy* tbh :( Sorry Indigo, this is all too suspect for me
> 
> 
> 
> Alright. Time to actual roleclaim?
Click to expand...

quod erat demonstrandum

at this point, better actual roleclaim than not tbh


----------



## IndigoClaudia

I am Skimbleshanks. I'm the cop. I'm dead tonight. Goodbye.


----------



## IndigoClaudia

IndigoEmmy said:


> I am Skimbleshanks. I'm the cop. I'm dead tonight. Goodbye.


Mewtini and Seshas are both not scum.


----------



## Butterfree

Uhhhh, yeah, Indigo's claim sounds kind of wild, and allllso as much as talking about specifics of role PMs feels a little borderline, I can't help but imagine something like this sequence of events:

- Indigo is some cat that sounds evil
- In a panic, to find a different cat to claim, she follows the wiki link to her actual cat (which goes to their 2019 page), then clicks the "Characters" link in the menu near the top
- Oh look under "A" there's Alonzo
- does not think to specifically go to 2019 movie Alonzo

??? Right? I mean.


----------



## kyeugh

well what were your checks then


----------



## IndigoClaudia

IndigoEmmy said:


> IndigoEmmy said:
> 
> 
> 
> I am Skimbleshanks. I'm the cop. I'm dead tonight. Goodbye.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mewtini and Seshas are both not scum.
Click to expand...

But seshas is dead.


----------



## kyeugh

seem leg


----------



## IndigoClaudia

Butterfree said:


> Uhhhh, yeah, Indigo's claim sounds kind of wild, and allllso as much as talking about specifics of role PMs feels a little borderline, I can't help but imagine something like this sequence of events:
> 
> - Indigo is some cat that sounds evil
> - In a panic, to find a different cat to claim, she follows the wiki link to her actual cat (which goes to their 2019 page), then clicks the "Characters" link in the menu near the top
> - Oh look under "A" there's Alonzo
> - does not think to specifically go to 2019 movie Alonzo
> 
> ??? Right? I mean.


Why must i play mafia with smart people? Everything but the "evil sounding cat" is completely right. >:C


----------



## Butterfree

OKAY that was quite a ninja. Uh.


----------



## rari_teh

…I’ll buy it.
if you don’t die tonight, you’ll be lynched tomorrow.
*Mr Ultracool*


----------



## IndigoClaudia

rari_teh said:


> …I’ll buy it.
> if you don’t die tonight, you’ll be lynched tomorrow.
> *Mr Ultracool*


I was gonna inspect either kyeugh or butterfree tonight.


----------



## kyeugh

*tofu
*


----------



## Herbe

I'm barely keeping up. But if emmy is telling the truth, do we need to continue copcovering? or is there a chance that there's more than one cop in the game?


----------



## IndigoClaudia

*Tofu *is also a lil' suspicious maybe idk i'm just doing it cos someone else did it do you know what i don't need a reason this is awkward ill stop now bye


----------



## Butterfree

Soooo I do buy this, because my Reasons(tm) that I mentioned for thinking Indigo was town previously were that her lack of cop cover and the post about how we'd regret lynching her sounded to me like the way Indigo might play if she were actually cop.


----------



## Trebek

rari_teh said:


> …I’ll buy it.
> if you don’t die tonight, you’ll be lynched tomorrow.
> *Mr Ultracool*


i agree with the first and last part of this. i’m cool with emmys claim for now, and i also still have some concerns about *Mr Ultracool*. however, i feel like “if you don’t die tonight” completely ignores the fact that there are likely  town protection roles


----------



## IndigoClaudia

@mewtini can you help verify that you are not scum and i am indeed right?


----------



## Butterfree

Does anyone want to counterclaim cop? I am not an actual cop.


----------



## rari_teh

Herbe said:


> I'm barely keeping up. But if emmy is telling the truth, do we need to continue copcovering? or is there a chance that there's more than one cop in the game?


doesn’t hurt to keep covering, I’d say



Trebek said:


> i feel like “if you don’t die tonight” completely ignores the fact that there are likely town protection roles


very good catch tbh


----------



## IndigoClaudia

Butterfree said:


> Does anyone want to counterclaim cop? I am not an actual cop.


I'd counterclaim cop but i already claimed so that doesn't work too well :|


----------



## rari_teh

Butterfree said:


> Does anyone want to counterclaim cop? I am not an actual cop.


me neither. any cops or Skimbleshanks, please speak up


----------



## Herbe

I am a rolecop. I have inspected both @Butterfree  and @mewtini . Bfree, mewtini, I don't want to reveal your roles without your permission, but do either of you have reason to believe I am not lying?


----------



## Trebek

rari_teh said:


> Trebek said:
> 
> 
> 
> i feel like “if you don’t die tonight” completely ignores the fact that there are likely town protection roles
> 
> 
> 
> very good catch tbh
Click to expand...

obviously, there’s the whole wifom of “do we attack open cop” but regardless of which side of the coin the wifom falls on, we should take survival as scum evidence


----------



## Herbe

before I reveal, that is. y'all may have picked up on my tangywhistling.


----------



## Trebek

shouldn’t* aaaaa


----------



## IndigoClaudia

Herbe said:


> I am a rolecop. I have inspected both @Butterfree  and @mewtini . Bfree, mewtini, I don't want to reveal your roles without your permission, but do either of you have reason to believe I am not lying?


----------



## Bluwiikoon

Well geez that's unfortunate  Sorry for adding onto the pressure, I'd hate it if we legitimately lose a cop. The weird fake triple bulletproof role makes sense as a way of trying to discourage mafia from stabbing Emmy, alas

*Tofu* for now because science probably only works with a bit of pressure? I'm not super invested in tofu wagon but I'm interested in hearing what they have to say


----------



## IndigoClaudia

It was nice knowing y'all


----------



## Trebek

if i can be so bold as to ask, emmy, what was the inspiration behind/the thought process of making the fake claim?

asking for Reasons ™ that i can explain afterwards


----------



## Butterfree

Herbe said:


> I am a rolecop. I have inspected both @Butterfree  and @mewtini . Bfree, mewtini, I don't want to reveal your roles without your permission, but do either of you have reason to believe I am not lying?


...Huh.

No, I don't have any reason to think you're lying. You can reveal my role if you like.


----------



## Bluwiikoon

IndigoEmmy said:


> It was nice knowing y'all


You never know, someone could decide to protect you toNight?


----------



## Herbe

Butterfree, you are a Fishing Brother.

I was curious if the double kill was a brother-related incident?


----------



## Herbe

Healing role might want to flip a coin between me and emmy tonight, if a rolecop and a cop in the same game is plausible


----------



## IndigoClaudia

Bluwiikoon said:


> IndigoEmmy said:
> 
> 
> 
> It was nice knowing y'all
> 
> 
> 
> You never know, someone could decide to protect you toNight?
Click to expand...

PWEEEEEEEESE do this please


----------



## Butterfree

Nope! My fishing brother partner is still alive and well. I've been assuming the extra kill was a vig.


----------



## IndigoClaudia

Trebek said:


> if i can be so bold as to ask, emmy, what was the inspiration behind/the thought process of making the fake claim?
> 
> asking for Reasons ™ that i can explain afterwards


Well blu put it pretty nicely:



Bluwiikoon said:


> he weird fake triple bulletproof role makes sense as a way of trying to discourage mafia from stabbing Emmy, alas


----------



## Herbe

Butterfree said:


> Nope! My fishing brother partner is still alive and well. I've been assuming the extra kill was a vig.


oh, great then! :D I guess vig makes the most sense here in the end, haha


----------



## Trebek

me when people start claiming


----------



## Trebek

IndigoEmmy said:


> Trebek said:
> 
> 
> 
> if i can be so bold as to ask, emmy, what was the inspiration behind/the thought process of making the fake claim?
> 
> asking for Reasons ™ that i can explain afterwards
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Well blu put it pretty nicely:
> 
> 
> 
> Bluwiikoon said:
> 
> 
> 
> he weird fake triple bulletproof role makes sense as a way of trying to discourage mafia from stabbing Emmy, alas
> 
> Click to expand...
Click to expand...

sorry, i didn’t word my question terribly well. the triple bulletproof idea is def a very good one! i was just wondering if it was the first idea you came up with, or if you thought about multiple different ways you could fake claim, etc etc


----------



## IndigoClaudia

Trebek said:


> IndigoEmmy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Trebek said:
> 
> 
> 
> if i can be so bold as to ask, emmy, what was the inspiration behind/the thought process of making the fake claim?
> 
> asking for Reasons ™ that i can explain afterwards
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Well blu put it pretty nicely:
> 
> 
> 
> Bluwiikoon said:
> 
> 
> 
> he weird fake triple bulletproof role makes sense as a way of trying to discourage mafia from stabbing Emmy, alas
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> sorry, i didn’t word my question terribly well. the triple bulletproof idea is def a very good one! i was just wondering if it was the first idea you came up with, or if you thought about multiple different ways you could fake claim, etc etc
Click to expand...

Nope i was totally just making things up as i go!


----------



## Bluwiikoon

As per my speculation several pages back, I have reason to believe that Emmy is actually an alien.


----------



## IndigoClaudia

Bluwiikoon said:


> As per my speculation several pages back, I have reason to believe that Emmy is actually an alien.


Spooky


----------



## IndigoClaudia

IndigoEmmy said:


> Bluwiikoon said:
> 
> 
> 
> As per my speculation several pages back, I have reason to believe that Emmy is actually an alien.
> 
> 
> 
> Spooky
Click to expand...

I'm not though :C


----------



## Trebek

IndigoEmmy said:


> Trebek said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> IndigoEmmy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Trebek said:
> 
> 
> 
> if i can be so bold as to ask, emmy, what was the inspiration behind/the thought process of making the fake claim?
> 
> asking for Reasons ™ that i can explain afterwards
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Well blu put it pretty nicely:
> 
> 
> 
> Bluwiikoon said:
> 
> 
> 
> he weird fake triple bulletproof role makes sense as a way of trying to discourage mafia from stabbing Emmy, alas
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> sorry, i didn’t word my question terribly well. the triple bulletproof idea is def a very good one! i was just wondering if it was the first idea you came up with, or if you thought about multiple different ways you could fake claim, etc etc
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Nope i was totally just making things up as i go!
Click to expand...

cool! i vibe with that, and i think i was tinfoil hatting anyways

(basically, to explain more in depth, i had a sudden “oh no” moment of “what if w!emmy double fake claimed to convince people she was a cop”, which was partially aligned with skylar’s idea about mafia collaboratively coming up with a fake claim for emmy. the “oh no” has since then evacuated my brain)


----------



## Herbe

IndigoEmmy said:


> Trebek said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> IndigoEmmy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Trebek said:
> 
> 
> 
> if i can be so bold as to ask, emmy, what was the inspiration behind/the thought process of making the fake claim?
> 
> asking for Reasons ™ that i can explain afterwards
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Well blu put it pretty nicely:
> 
> 
> 
> Bluwiikoon said:
> 
> 
> 
> he weird fake triple bulletproof role makes sense as a way of trying to discourage mafia from stabbing Emmy, alas
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> sorry, i didn’t word my question terribly well. the triple bulletproof idea is def a very good one! i was just wondering if it was the first idea you came up with, or if you thought about multiple different ways you could fake claim, etc etc
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Nope i was totally just making things up as i go!
Click to expand...

mmmmmm this feels very genuine!emmy but idk if it's alignment indicative, other than making me think that she's not being coached

Idk if trusting emmy is the mechanically safe option because a rolecop and a cop in the same game gives me pause. like, what the hell does the mafia have to balance out this situation? something scary I think. 

not voting just yet, I want tofu to show up (i still don't really understand tofu's wagon? can somebody explain?)


----------



## Bluwiikoon

IndigoEmmy said:


> IndigoEmmy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Bluwiikoon said:
> 
> 
> 
> As per my speculation several pages back, I have reason to believe that Emmy is actually an alien.
> 
> 
> 
> Spooky
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I'm not though :C
Click to expand...

That's what someone who's trying to get stabbed by mafia would say! >:3


----------



## IndigoClaudia

Listen i just need to survive a bit more so my reaction score can surpass mewtini and eifie.


----------



## Trebek

it just seems far less likely than emmy genuinely being a cop/not wanting to get stabby stabbed

although honestly, blu’s alienthoughts could hold promise? but if they did, that’s still enough in my book to warrant stopping the emmy train


----------



## IndigoClaudia

IndigoEmmy said:


> Listen i just need to survive a bit more so my reaction score can surpass mewtini and eifie.


YOU DID IT BLU I HAVE 1000 REACTION SCORE NOW!!!!!! THANKS!


----------



## Novae

hey gamers it's me


----------



## Trebek

Herbe said:


> IndigoEmmy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Trebek said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> IndigoEmmy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Trebek said:
> 
> 
> 
> if i can be so bold as to ask, emmy, what was the inspiration behind/the thought process of making the fake claim?
> 
> asking for Reasons ™ that i can explain afterwards
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Well blu put it pretty nicely:
> 
> 
> 
> Bluwiikoon said:
> 
> 
> 
> he weird fake triple bulletproof role makes sense as a way of trying to discourage mafia from stabbing Emmy, alas
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> sorry, i didn’t word my question terribly well. the triple bulletproof idea is def a very good one! i was just wondering if it was the first idea you came up with, or if you thought about multiple different ways you could fake claim, etc etc
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Nope i was totally just making things up as i go!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> mmmmmm this feels very genuine!emmy but idk if it's alignment indicative, other than making me think that she's not being coached
> 
> Idk if trusting emmy is the mechanically safe option because a rolecop and a cop in the same game gives me pause. like, what the hell does the mafia have to balance out this situation? something scary I think.
> 
> not voting just yet, I want tofu to show up (i still don't really understand tofu's wagon? can somebody explain?)
Click to expand...

i say this with full acknowledgement that ToS balance is far different than forum mafia, but i frankly don’t see an issue with role cop and cop coexisting (although normally it comes with the package deal of there being a mafia that flips green)


----------



## Novae

I have read approximately nothing but for the time being ignore my usertitle

Any relevant mechanical info/places to start reading


----------



## Herbe

Herbe said:


> hi y'all.
> 
> n1 hypocop: *butterfree*
> 
> no that is not a vote i just bolded it to make it easier to read
> 
> when i was catching up with the thread and i got to the VM "look at this list" post kyeugh stood out to me too. i went to mini vindication station when vm said that was on his mind too lmao. not ready to vote just yet, but let's stir this pot a bit.





Herbe said:


> Trebek said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rari_teh said:
> 
> 
> 
> wtf was the mafia’s reasoning behind this kill? even in the offchance of us being wrong about who was vigged and who was nightkilled, neither makes any sense for mafia??
> 
> 
> 
> if we are wrong about the vigging, what other options could exist to explain the flavor?
> 
> (this sounds agressive, im just interesting in thinking about other possibilities so we dont hypofocus on one)
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> idk. lovers? fishing brothers? some sort of weird modified version of those? also, do we know which of seshas/myuma was timed-out and which was vanished?
> 
> 
> kyeugh said:
> 
> 
> 
> i spent like half of yesterday criticizing her read
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> you spent all of tvt distancing me like a pro
Click to expand...


these were my bfree tangywhistles btw. post 1271 i hypocopped you and then 1290 something I made the fishing brothers comment. I was hoping you'd pay attention to my hypo of you and when you saw the FB comment, it might click (literally FB is so rare the only place I have ever seen it is on tcod, mafiauniverse doesn't even have a wiki page for it, so i thought it was a gamble to bring it up and might be too obvious)


----------



## Butterfree

Mist1422 said:


> I have read approximately nothing but for the time being ignore my usertitle
> 
> Any relevant mechanical info/places to start reading


Hi, the thread is currently on fire after IndigoEmmy claimed triple bulletproof and then actually cop, and then Herbe claimed rolecop (and correctly identified my role, fishing brother).

Other points of discussion: VM has been campaigning to lynch kyeugh, there's also wagons on Tofu and Mr. Ultracool


----------



## Bluwiikoon

What's the fishing brothers' special powers? :o


----------



## Butterfree

Herbe said:


> Herbe said:
> 
> 
> 
> hi y'all.
> 
> n1 hypocop: *butterfree*
> 
> no that is not a vote i just bolded it to make it easier to read
> 
> when i was catching up with the thread and i got to the VM "look at this list" post kyeugh stood out to me too. i went to mini vindication station when vm said that was on his mind too lmao. not ready to vote just yet, but let's stir this pot a bit.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Herbe said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Trebek said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rari_teh said:
> 
> 
> 
> wtf was the mafia’s reasoning behind this kill? even in the offchance of us being wrong about who was vigged and who was nightkilled, neither makes any sense for mafia??
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> if we are wrong about the vigging, what other options could exist to explain the flavor?
> 
> (this sounds agressive, im just interesting in thinking about other possibilities so we dont hypofocus on one)
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> idk. lovers? fishing brothers? some sort of weird modified version of those? also, do we know which of seshas/myuma was timed-out and which was vanished?
> 
> 
> kyeugh said:
> 
> 
> 
> i spent like half of yesterday criticizing her read
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> you spent all of tvt distancing me like a pro
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> these were my bfree tangywhistles btw. post 1271 i hypocopped you and then 1290 something I made the fishing brothers comment. I was hoping you'd pay attention to my hypo of you and when you saw the FB comment, it might click (literally FB is so rare the only place I have ever seen it is on tcod, mafiauniverse doesn't even have a wiki page for it, so i thought it was a gamble to bring it up and might be too obvious)
Click to expand...

Haha, I did notice the fishing brothers comment but by that point I think I'd forgotten that you were the one that hypocopped me and figured it was just a coincidence based on TCoD meta.


----------



## Herbe

if we're taking it from the TCoD mafia rules sticky, they both pick a target at night, if one dies than the other brother kills the target of the dead brother.


----------



## Novae

Butterfree said:


> Mist1422 said:
> 
> 
> 
> I have read approximately nothing but for the time being ignore my usertitle
> 
> Any relevant mechanical info/places to start reading
> 
> 
> 
> Hi, the thread is currently on fire after IndigoEmmy claimed triple bulletproof and then actually cop, and then Herbe claimed rolecop (and correctly identified my role, fishing brother).
> 
> Other points of discussion: VM has been campaigning to lynch kyeugh, there's also wagons on Tofu and Mr. Ultracool
Click to expand...

Did emmy explain why she changed her claim?

And what's the cases on qva/tofu/ultracool, or is it something I should skim for myself?


----------



## Herbe

Butterfree said:


> Haha, I did notice the fishing brothers comment but by that point I think I'd forgotten that you were the one that hypocopped me and figured it was just a coincidence based on TCoD meta.


totally justified lmao


----------



## Butterfree

Bluwiikoon said:


> What's the fishing brothers' special powers? :o


Fishing brothers are a pair of townies; if one of them dies, the other gets to make a revenge kill, sort of like a one-shot vig.


----------



## Bluwiikoon

I feel that a cop claim 22 hours before the deadline is a little suspect, unless Emmy is actively trying to get targeted by mafia. I certainly don't want to underestimate her play

I'm not saying it's aliens but


----------



## rari_teh

Mist1422 said:


> Did emmy explain why she changed her claim?


because some of us didn’t buy it in the least and she was the leading wagon


----------



## Trebek

hey herbe:

you said you also investigated mewt, right? i don’t want to give the maf too much role info early on, so the question i want to ask is, do you think mewt would have any motivation to false claim in the event that you are dead and she’s on the chopping block?


----------



## Novae

rari_teh said:


> Mist1422 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Did emmy explain why she changed her claim?
> 
> 
> 
> because some of us didn’t buy it in the least and she was the leading wagon
Click to expand...

I would prefer to hear it directly from @IndigoEmmy because this feels like spin tbh


----------



## Herbe

Trebek said:


> hey herbe:
> 
> you said you also investigated mewt, right? i don’t want to give the maf too much role info early on, so the question i want to ask is, do you think mewt would have any motivation to false claim in the event that you are dead and she’s on the chopping block?


i don't think so. but mewt's result confused me, as it's not neccessarily alignment indicative (but leans town usually)


----------



## Herbe

emmy investigating mewt and coming back with a green check makes sense role-wise, though, don't take it as if it doesn't. it actually makes me feel better abt emmy just a smidge


----------



## Trebek

Herbe said:


> Trebek said:
> 
> 
> 
> hey herbe:
> 
> you said you also investigated mewt, right? i don’t want to give the maf too much role info early on, so the question i want to ask is, do you think mewt would have any motivation to false claim in the event that you are dead and she’s on the chopping block?
> 
> 
> 
> i don't think so. but mewt's result confused me, as it's not neccessarily alignment indicative (but leans town usually)
Click to expand...

alright, thanks! i wanted to try and find some balance between mechclear and tipping off the mafia to a PR, which is why i asked it like that


----------



## Bluwiikoon

Idk I feel like since mewtini is townleaning for a lot of people, giving her a greencheck is relatively safe. I really don't think Emmy is cop anymore, we have no way of knowing if she actually did check Seshas or just took that as another Safe false claim due to Seshas alignment being known


----------



## Herbe

Trebek said:


> Herbe said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Trebek said:
> 
> 
> 
> hey herbe:
> 
> you said you also investigated mewt, right? i don’t want to give the maf too much role info early on, so the question i want to ask is, do you think mewt would have any motivation to false claim in the event that you are dead and she’s on the chopping block?
> 
> 
> 
> i don't think so. but mewt's result confused me, as it's not neccessarily alignment indicative (but leans town usually)
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> alright, thanks! i wanted to try and find some balance between mechclear and tipping off the mafia to a PR, which is why i asked it like that
Click to expand...

i really appreciate it, actually! 

just to be clear I don't get alignments in my results


----------



## Herbe

oh blu, i think a mewt/sesh check claim is really easy/lowhanging fruit too. but i dont think its implausable that shes telling the truth


----------



## IndigoClaudia

Bluwiikoon said:


> I feel that a cop claim 22 hours before the deadline is a little suspect, unless Emmy is actively trying to get targeted by mafia. I certainly don't want to underestimate her play
> 
> I'm not saying it's aliens but


Maybe it's best to let the mafia believe i'm trying for them to kill me xD

Anyway byeeee


----------



## Trebek

Herbe said:


> Trebek said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Herbe said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Trebek said:
> 
> 
> 
> hey herbe:
> 
> you said you also investigated mewt, right? i don’t want to give the maf too much role info early on, so the question i want to ask is, do you think mewt would have any motivation to false claim in the event that you are dead and she’s on the chopping block?
> 
> 
> 
> i don't think so. but mewt's result confused me, as it's not neccessarily alignment indicative (but leans town usually)
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> alright, thanks! i wanted to try and find some balance between mechclear and tipping off the mafia to a PR, which is why i asked it like that
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> i really appreciate it, actually!
> 
> just to be clear I don't get alignments in my results
Click to expand...

well otherwise it would be a strictly better cop :p

rolecop functions a bit differently in ToS, which is why i wanted to make sure i had all my ducks in a row (since role names are alignment indicative, rolecop in ToS always returns a set of three similar roles, one town one maf one 3p)


----------



## Butterfree

I think the existence of a role and alignment cop together prooobably does check out; Herbe clearly is genuinely a rolecop for checking me correctly, and as I said I've been thinking Indigo was the cop for a while now and this all seems an unlikely way for things to play out if she were mafia - I'd imagine she would've not gone for the strange Alonzo claim first if she were? Trebek's suggestion that this might mean there's something like a mafia godfather that inspects innocent but can be detected by the rolecop is interesting.

I'm going to do some rereading now, probably sanity check Indigo and then take another look at Tofu and Ultracool?


----------



## Butterfree

And also Superjolt/Trebek if I have time, of course, I'm just hoping to be able to form an opinion on the actual current wagons rather than just reread something unrelated. :P


----------



## mewtini

hey what the fuck 44 notifs. hi guys?!


----------



## rari_teh




----------



## mewtini

ok i quickly caught up, i have a thing going on irl so i wont be on for long. i'll choose to believe emmy tbh. i like cops ... In Mafia. *tofu*

i believe herbe, the thing he said about my role appearing as both alignments is legit i'd say. ping me if you have questions/want me to look at stuff


----------



## mewtini

have to go back but the main reason i'd doubt emmy at all is the fact that she claimed this early, but idk if i wanna read into that just yet


----------



## mewtini

mewtini said:


> i believe herbe, the thing he said about my role appearing as both alignments is legit i'd say.


i realize that bfree also confirmed, i just want to add credibility to them both so no one comes in and tinfoils them w/w


----------



## Vipera Magnifica

something's not sitting right with me... in old tcodf meta it was pretty common for the mafia to have a role cop and the town to have a regular cop

i'm immediately kinda side-eyeing Herbe's role cop claim... correctly identifying Butterfree's role may show that he is a role cop but it doesn't say anything about his alignment... in fact I'd scumlean anyone who claims role cop just based on it almost never seeing use in the town, at least from what I remember. Has JackPK played any mafia outside of tcod forums?

i'm not advocating we lynch Herbe but I would be careful about regarding him as town


----------



## Vipera Magnifica

also hello that's a lot of fresh information to unpack


----------



## mewtini

do you actively scumlean him or are you just saying that this doesn't clear him


----------



## Vipera Magnifica

he's in my "keep an eye on this one" pile


----------



## mewtini

i am doubtful of herbe being mafia purely because (and i don't have time to go back into my existing herbethoughts) he claimed because cop claims were being solicited, right? seems to me like if he were mafia he'd spend another night or so figuring out roles for the sake of mafia getting a better kill shot


----------



## mewtini

actually maybe that doesn't really make sense. i'm flashfire typing


----------



## mewtini

yeah scratch that. basically i think it's an organic enough roleclaim.


----------



## Butterfree

Vipera Magnifica said:


> something's not sitting right with me... in old tcodf meta it was pretty common for the mafia to have a role cop and the town to have a regular cop
> 
> i'm immediately kinda side-eyeing Herbe's role cop claim... correctly identifying Butterfree's role may show that he is a role cop but it doesn't say anything about his alignment... in fact I'd scumlean anyone who claims role cop just based on it almost never seeing use in the town, at least from what I remember. Has JackPK played any mafia outside of tcod forums?
> 
> i'm not advocating we lynch Herbe but I would be careful about regarding him as town


Hmm. Yeah, good point, Herbe's not _clear_ even if he's a rolecop. I'll think on that one better later after my current rereading.


----------



## mewtini

i'mma head out now, glad i came back on a whim just now tbh, i would have been blindsided even more
ping and i can try to quickly answer but i'll probably be back in a few hours


----------



## I liek Squirtles

I want to believe Emmy but the targets of her investigation are a bit sus to me. Like mewt, somebody who has been read overwhelmingly townie, and seshas, who flipped upon death, are a little too easy, know what I mean?

Allow me to indulge in a tinfoil hat: would it be possible for the mafia to have some kind of tracking role, and for this to be some kind of elaborate bait to figure out who the healing role(s) are?

I'll write more later tonight (heading back home now, and going back to old posts is kinda hard on mobile lole,,)


----------



## Herbe

Vipera Magnifica said:


> something's not sitting right with me... in old tcodf meta it was pretty common for the mafia to have a role cop and the town to have a regular cop
> 
> i'm immediately kinda side-eyeing Herbe's role cop claim... correctly identifying Butterfree's role may show that he is a role cop but it doesn't say anything about his alignment... in fact I'd scumlean anyone who claims role cop just based on it almost never seeing use in the town, at least from what I remember. Has JackPK played any mafia outside of tcod forums?
> 
> i'm not advocating we lynch Herbe but I would be careful about regarding him as town


yeah I knew it was gonna be brought up like this, i was surprised that rolecop wasnt a scum role here either. i think bc i know that rolecops are usually scum, w!me would be a lot more careful about claiming rolecop, and would probably just counterclaim regular cop. (maybe w different sanity)

my cat is victoria and apparently since im a new baby i spend my free time figuring out what the other jellicle cats do in their free time

basically i just hope i hit a mafia member so i can expose them and clear myself in the process.


----------



## Trebek

Butterfree said:


> Vipera Magnifica said:
> 
> 
> 
> something's not sitting right with me... in old tcodf meta it was pretty common for the mafia to have a role cop and the town to have a regular cop
> 
> i'm immediately kinda side-eyeing Herbe's role cop claim... correctly identifying Butterfree's role may show that he is a role cop but it doesn't say anything about his alignment... in fact I'd scumlean anyone who claims role cop just based on it almost never seeing use in the town, at least from what I remember. Has JackPK played any mafia outside of tcod forums?
> 
> i'm not advocating we lynch Herbe but I would be careful about regarding him as town
> 
> 
> 
> Hmm. Yeah, good point, Herbe's not _clear_ even if he's a rolecop. I'll think on that one better later after my current rereading.
Click to expand...

i think in a vacuum rolecop is NAI, but Herbe's claim feels good to me tbh. i do actually agree with what mewt said -


mewtini said:


> seems to me like if he were mafia he'd spend another night or so figuring out roles for the sake of mafia getting a better kill shot


im not sure what would inspire w!herbe to claim rn, unless we want to dive into wifom/tinfoilhat arguments that at that point could be applied to any player lmao


----------



## mewtini

Herbe said:


> my cat is victoria and apparently since im a new baby i spend my free time figuring out what the other jellicle cats do in their free time


this is so fucking cute


----------



## Vipera Magnifica

mewtini said:


> yeah scratch that. basically i think it's an organic enough roleclaim.


i think it might be the actual mafia role cop seizing an opportune moment to claim? either that or he has a mafia teammate that is the role cop

i actually had the thought there might be a mafia role cop even before herbe claimed, so this... this really doesn't sit well with me


----------



## Trebek

tbh, if were being pragmatic: barring the scenario where herbe is mafia and finds a mafia friend to do tag team fake role clear shenanigans, it doesnt actually matter what his alignment is exactly now as long as we can verify all of his reads


----------



## Trebek

Trebek said:


> finds a mafia friend to do tag team fake role clear shenanigans


and this is hella risky if we have other investigative-type roles. hell, we could always have emmy check herbe (i really dont think that theyre a w/w pair)


----------



## mewtini

Vipera Magnifica said:


> i think it might be the actual mafia role cop seizing an opportune moment to claim? either that or he has a mafia teammate that is the role cop


idk. meh because why not claim later then tbh, “cops please claim” != “RCops claim pls” but not everyone knows that


----------



## I liek Squirtles

(Also what is NAI)


----------



## Herbe

I liek Squirtles said:


> (Also what is NAI)


not alignment indicative


----------



## Trebek

Ok so i went back and looked at the trains that are happening rn to stop myself from tinfoilhatting myself into oblivion, but honestly my vibe rn is just sorta 


Herbe said:


> (i still don't really understand tofu's wagon? can somebody explain?)


unless im just legally blind, idk if this ever got answered


----------



## mewtini

i think skylar started it as a science wagon
i hopped on for now because tofu's posts feel odd


----------



## Butterfree

IndigoEmmy reread: okay, yeah, either her claim is legit or she's been planning out this fakeclaim for the entire game.

First, after checking mewtini N0, she is really insistent that she's getting the _best vibes_ from mewtini, and also talks a lot about cops:



IndigoEmmy said:


> Who seems suspicious to all of y'all?
> 
> Blu and probably Mewtini don't seem super suspicious to me, but idk.





IndigoEmmy said:


> There could be a cop around, so it's still reasonable to ask. Idk who'd reveal themselves as cop this early though?





IndigoEmmy said:


> Trebek said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Herbe said:
> 
> 
> 
> if i had a night action i'd definitely target mewtini n0
> 
> 
> 
> i second this
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I third this. Mewtini would be fun to target.
> Also it's just fun to jump on random "buses" just because i can.
Click to expand...




IndigoEmmy said:


> This is my contribution to Cop CoverTM:
> 
> I have no idea yet
> but Blu and Mewtini have good vibes.





IndigoEmmy said:


> rari_teh said:
> 
> 
> 
> I gotta say, when I was cop in TVT I was super antsy about covering, esp when very few people posted covers. I’m glad that pretty much everybody is covering now tbh
> If I’m cop N0 *Seshas* btw
> 
> 
> 
> It makes the actual cops feel more secure i'm sure. But then the mafia could also interfere.
> 
> *AND WE DON'T WANT THAT.*
Click to expand...




IndigoEmmy said:


> I'm gonna go out here even if it's not true and i lose the game for us all but i'm getting GOOD VIBES from mewtini.
> 
> Now Cop!Emmy might not be great at stuff like this but mewtini has some solid vibes. Let's not lynch her.


Meanwhile, she's suspicious of Seshas D1...



IndigoEmmy said:


> M Plus 7 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> IndigoEmmy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Oh, of course, ignore me -- just being dense. Do you have any reads on anyone else?
> 
> 
> 
> Mewtini, Blu = Good
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Cool, I agree with you about mewtini. Can you speak more to the logic behind abstaining if you don't mind?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Why kill if we don't know. But if i had to vote i'd vote for seshas.
> 
> I'll be back in a few hours :D bye
Click to expand...

...so yeah, checks out she'd check Seshas N1. And then on D2, she makes this post that sounds like a joke but:



IndigoEmmy said:


> Hey guys i no longer suspect seshas after the events of earlier


----------



## Trebek

mewtini said:


> i think skylar started it as a science wagon
> i hopped on for now because tofu's posts feel odd


ok, that was about the same conclusion i had reached myself. i'm a fan of science, but i still have my reservations about ultracool. might switch up my vote pending on how the science goes


----------



## Trebek

Butterfree said:


> IndigoEmmy said:
> 
> 
> 
> Hey guys i no longer suspect seshas after the events of earlier
Click to expand...

ooooh, i had totally forgotten about that


----------



## IndigoClaudia

Butterfree said:


> IndigoEmmy reread: okay, yeah, either her claim is legit or she's been planning out this fakeclaim for the entire game.
> 
> First, after checking mewtini N0, she is really insistent that she's getting the _best vibes_ from mewtini, and also talks a lot about cops:
> 
> 
> 
> IndigoEmmy said:
> 
> 
> 
> Who seems suspicious to all of y'all?
> 
> Blu and probably Mewtini don't seem super suspicious to me, but idk.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> IndigoEmmy said:
> 
> 
> 
> There could be a cop around, so it's still reasonable to ask. Idk who'd reveal themselves as cop this early though?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> IndigoEmmy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Trebek said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Herbe said:
> 
> 
> 
> if i had a night action i'd definitely target mewtini n0
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> i second this
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I third this. Mewtini would be fun to target.
> Also it's just fun to jump on random "buses" just because i can.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> IndigoEmmy said:
> 
> 
> 
> This is my contribution to Cop CoverTM:
> 
> I have no idea yet
> but Blu and Mewtini have good vibes.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> IndigoEmmy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rari_teh said:
> 
> 
> 
> I gotta say, when I was cop in TVT I was super antsy about covering, esp when very few people posted covers. I’m glad that pretty much everybody is covering now tbh
> If I’m cop N0 *Seshas* btw
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It makes the actual cops feel more secure i'm sure. But then the mafia could also interfere.
> 
> *AND WE DON'T WANT THAT.*
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> IndigoEmmy said:
> 
> 
> 
> I'm gonna go out here even if it's not true and i lose the game for us all but i'm getting GOOD VIBES from mewtini.
> 
> Now Cop!Emmy might not be great at stuff like this but mewtini has some solid vibes. Let's not lynch her.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Meanwhile, she's suspicious of Seshas D1...
> 
> 
> 
> IndigoEmmy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> M Plus 7 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> IndigoEmmy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Oh, of course, ignore me -- just being dense. Do you have any reads on anyone else?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Mewtini, Blu = Good
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Cool, I agree with you about mewtini. Can you speak more to the logic behind abstaining if you don't mind?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Why kill if we don't know. But if i had to vote i'd vote for seshas.
> 
> I'll be back in a few hours :D bye
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> ...so yeah, checks out she'd check Seshas N1. And then on D2, she makes this post that sounds like a joke but:
> 
> 
> 
> IndigoEmmy said:
> 
> 
> 
> Hey guys i no longer suspect seshas after the events of earlier
> 
> Click to expand...
Click to expand...

This is exactly what happened.


----------



## mewtini

yeah i buy that tbh. maybe this explains why she dodged me asking about seshas?


----------



## mewtini

Bluwiikoon said:


> I feel that a cop claim 22 hours before the deadline is a little suspect, unless Emmy is actively trying to get targeted by mafia. I certainly don't want to underestimate her play
> 
> I'm not saying it's aliens but


is this functionally different from claiming during EoD though? this is also i think emmy's first time wielding a strong PR which might be making me less sus
also i think having town rcop + cop just means that there's definitely a wolf that flips green (i.e. godfather)

the fakeclaim is kind of weird in the world where she's a wolf lol. although i initially thought maybe it was written for her by scumbuddies (as skylar specced).


----------



## mewtini

either way herbe is definitely a rolecop, we just don't know his alignment. i think that's the important takeaway


----------



## Trebek

mewtini said:


> the fakeclaim is kind of weird in the world where she's a wolf lol. although i initially thought maybe it was written for her by scumbuddies (as skylar specced).


yeah, this is why i asked emmy what her thought process was concerning fakeclaim, to see if anything slipped. i got good vibes from that interaction tho

frankly, there could also be both town rcop and mafia rcop


----------



## Butterfree

Exciting news: it looks like it would be very easy to add an ISO link to posts


----------



## mewtini

Butterfree said:


> Exciting news: it looks like it would be very easy to add an ISO link to posts


thank fucking god

as far as The Wagons, i think the ultracool post trebek pointed out (1613) is maybe irksome and tofu could be read as towny for posting pretty boldly? my reluctance is that ultracool's offhand comments felt good but ... i'll stay on tofu for the time being because it looks like the wagons are moving to tofu/ultracool and i want to keep it a bit more even (i think ultracool is handily leading), but yeah. i will now readily admit that my kneejerk vote on tofu was kind of resultant of me seeing posts and going "nice, a train," wanting to get off of the emmy wagon, and my disagreements with her post


----------



## mewtini

@Herbe do you only receive role names?


----------



## mewtini

mewtini said:


> my reluctance is that ultracool's offhand comments felt good


this is lowkey super nebulous and if anyone asks me to explain why this is, i will not be able to tell you very coherently. stuff like "why would kyeugh talk about flavor like this" felt more like they came from town pov than not but idrk


----------



## kyeugh

from my pov

definitely town:

me
mewt
rari
butterfree
emmy
unsure:

herbe
vm
tofu
mist
koko
ils
trebek
ultracool
m+7
keldeo
i think if you shot randomly in that second list it would probably be >50% chance of hitting scum? ish?


----------



## rari_teh

I liek Squirtles said:


> I want to believe Emmy but the targets of her investigation are a bit sus to me. Like mewt, somebody who has been read overwhelmingly townie, and seshas, who flipped upon death, are a little too easy, know what I mean?
> 
> Allow me to indulge in a tinfoil hat: would it be possible for the mafia to have some kind of tracking role, and for this to be some kind of elaborate bait to figure out who the healing role(s) are?
> 
> I'll write more later tonight (heading back home now, and going back to old posts is kinda hard on mobile lole,,)


I see where you’re going, but let’s take a different spin on this: forget the copclaim. She said she’s Skimbleshanks, who’s a darling of a cat in the movie and very unlikely to be mafia.

Is there anyone here, besides IndigoEmmy, who is Skimbleshanks?

Of course, that could be Mawile, Seshas or myuma, but that would be a hell of a lucky move on Emmy’s part if fake


----------



## mewtini

the iso link.... butterfree i love you



rari_teh said:


> I see where you’re going, but let’s take a different spin on this: forget the copclaim. She said she’s Skimbleshanks, who’s a darling of a cat in the movie and very unlikely to be mafia.


excellent point

i like that ILS said what he said though


----------



## rari_teh

mewtini said:


> i like that ILS said what he said though


me too tbh


----------



## Bluwiikoon

Speculating on whether Indigo is cop feels bad imo. Just gives mafia more of an incentive to shank her, which is bad because she's alien :-(


----------



## Trebek

omg that ISO button is glorious


----------



## IndigoClaudia

Bluwiikoon said:


> Speculating on whether Indigo is cop feels bad imo. Just gives mafia more of an incentive to shank her, which is bad because she's alien :-(


I'm definitely not an alien.


----------



## mewtini

Bluwiikoon said:


> Speculating on whether Indigo is cop feels bad imo. Just gives mafia more of an incentive to shank her, which is bad because she's alien :-(


i don't really get your alien theory. is it just because she claimed early? she faces equal odds of getting hit by mafia if she more conventionally claimed during EoD as a wagonleader

also speculating about her copness makes sense rn because the alternative is "she's completely lying"


----------



## Bluwiikoon

IndigoEmmy said:


> Bluwiikoon said:
> 
> 
> 
> Speculating on whether Indigo is cop feels bad imo. Just gives mafia more of an incentive to shank her, which is bad because she's alien :-(
> 
> 
> 
> I'm definitely not an alien.
Click to expand...


----------



## mewtini

i think i am facing read decay on bluwiikoon tbh


----------



## Butterfree

As you may have noticed, ISO should be working now! Check the top right corner of any post; beside the share button, there should now be a link that says "ISO". This will take you directly to a search of that user's posts in the current thread.


----------



## mewtini

i should probably stop posting because i'm literally avoiding socializing rn (don't worry, i am being coronasafe) and i'm talking out of my ass right now tbh but yeah. have fun yall


----------



## IndigoClaudia

I have to check mine now


----------



## kyeugh

mewtini said:


> i think skylar started it as a science wagon
> i hopped on for now because tofu's posts feel odd


partly not science tbh. i got odd vibes from her last post; she might just be really pocketed which would be understandable but i don’t think the alternate situations are that absurd.


----------



## mewtini

cool tbh. in the time since i made my last post i reread tofu's iso i have decided that i feel weird again. but then again a few people are being weird about seeing multiple worlds in this game :/


----------



## Bluwiikoon

In a world where Indigo is cop, I don't want her to get shanked.

In a world where Indigo is alien, I also don't want her to get shanked!


----------



## IndigoClaudia

Bluwiikoon said:


> In a world where Indigo is cop, I don't want her to get shanked.
> 
> In a world where Indigo is alien, I also don't want her to get shanked!


Welp i must be dooooomed


----------



## mewtini

i should probably stop backing off as hard due to my "wolf no post Controversy" thoughts


----------



## IndigoClaudia

IndigoEmmy said:


> Bluwiikoon said:
> 
> 
> 
> In a world where Indigo is cop, I don't want her to get shanked.
> 
> In a world where Indigo is alien, I also don't want her to get shanked!
> 
> 
> 
> Welp i must be dooooomed
Click to expand...

Also i'm not alien. Although maybe it's best that mafia thinks that.


----------



## Bluwiikoon

IndigoEmmy said:


> IndigoEmmy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Bluwiikoon said:
> 
> 
> 
> In a world where Indigo is cop, I don't want her to get shanked.
> 
> In a world where Indigo is alien, I also don't want her to get shanked!
> 
> 
> 
> Welp i must be dooooomed
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Also i'm not alien. Although maybe it's best that mafia thinks that.
Click to expand...


----------



## Herbe

mewtini said:


> @Herbe do you only receive role names?


yes. and it's not a hyperlink to a wiki page for the role, it's just the name


----------



## IndigoClaudia

Bluwiikoon said:


> IndigoEmmy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> IndigoEmmy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Bluwiikoon said:
> 
> 
> 
> In a world where Indigo is cop, I don't want her to get shanked.
> 
> In a world where Indigo is alien, I also don't want her to get shanked!
> 
> 
> 
> Welp i must be dooooomed
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Also i'm not alien. Although maybe it's best that mafia thinks that.
> 
> Click to expand...
Click to expand...

Why are you insistent that i'm an alien lol.


----------



## mewtini

Herbe said:


> mewtini said:
> 
> 
> 
> @Herbe do you only receive role names?
> 
> 
> 
> yes. and it's not a hyperlink to a wiki page for the role, it's just the name
Click to expand...

cool
i feel even better about herbe's claim then

tbh blu what. can you explain the alien thought. is it tinfoil/jovial or something you're actually pushing? that sounds kind of rude but


----------



## IndigoClaudia

Also, you know i'm not mafia because if i were mafia i'd kill Mewtini first, then kyeugh so i could have the highest popularity score.


----------



## mewtini

Bluwiikoon said:


> IndigoEmmy said:
> 
> 
> 
> Also i'm not alien. Although maybe it's best that mafia thinks that.
Click to expand...

in particular why this reaction to her quote here. it makes sense to me


----------



## IndigoClaudia

mewtini said:


> Bluwiikoon said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> IndigoEmmy said:
> 
> 
> 
> Also i'm not alien. Although maybe it's best that mafia thinks that.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> in particular why this reaction to her quote here. it makes sense to me
Click to expand...

I think blu is just meming.


----------



## Novae

VM town for paranoia on Herbe
I liked and agree with Butterfree's analysis on Emmy so I think they're either both town or both scum and iirc herbe's check seems to mostly clear butterfree?


----------



## Bluwiikoon

I have good reasons for thinking the way I do, promise! I outlined a basic premise in #1848 but going into more details may be dangerous.


----------



## mewtini

i wasn't sure because his vote is still on you last i checked


----------



## IndigoClaudia

Bluwiikoon said:


> I have good reasons for thinking the way I do, promise! I outlined a basic premise in #1848 but going into more details may be dangerous.


Dangerous for you?


----------



## IndigoClaudia

Or for me or someone else?


----------



## rari_teh

Bluwiikoon said:


> I have good reasons for thinking the way I do, promise! I outlined a basic premise in #1848 but going into more details may be dangerous.


I don’t see what the danger would be tbh. It is to the best interest both of the town and of the mafia to know who’s alien, if there’s one.
unless by “dangerous” you mean “this info is intrinsically connected to my own role”, in which case I’d say it’s probably better to not say it for now


----------



## IndigoClaudia

rari_teh said:


> Bluwiikoon said:
> 
> 
> 
> I have good reasons for thinking the way I do, promise! I outlined a basic premise in #1848 but going into more details may be dangerous.
> 
> 
> 
> I don’t see what the danger would be tbh. It is to the best interest both of the town and of the mafia to know who’s alien, if there’s one.
> unless by “dangerous” you mean “this info is intrinsically connected to my own role”, in which case I’d say it’s probably better to not say it for now
Click to expand...

But blu couldn't know because of his own role because... i'm not alien... so this can't be because of his own role.
I swear!​


----------



## Trebek

rari_teh said:


> it’s probably better to not say it for now


i think i know what could be happening, but i agree with rari here


----------



## rari_teh

@I liek Squirtles do you think there’s a possibility that Skimbleshanks is an alien?


----------



## IndigoClaudia

Trebek said:


> rari_teh said:
> 
> 
> 
> it’s probably better to not say it for now
> 
> 
> 
> i think i know what could be happening, but i agree with rari here
Click to expand...

but but but...  im not alien so blu couldn't know!


----------



## IndigoClaudia

ANYWAY BYE PEOPLE ILL HAVE FUN DYING LOL!


----------



## IndigoClaudia

Actually i gotta eat bye


----------



## Bluwiikoon

Anyway, hope everybody is keeping hydrated and fed! ^^ Get a sleep if you need one!


----------



## mewtini

i agree with rari wrt alien/cop/whatever spec

on another note. is it bad that i keep thinking about the thing that vm said about tofu in an attempt to sort them? i think vm is probably town though

i think tofu could maybe fall kind of directly into the archetype of wolf making calculated longposts (also she hasn't replied to the questions from earlier right?). i kinda want to actually talk about her now ...


----------



## Butterfree

I get what Bluwii is thinking and it's not suspicious. It's best let go.


----------



## rari_teh

I have some tofuthoughts, but I’ll only share them when Tofu appears again tbh


----------



## mewtini

mewtini said:


> i should probably stop backing off as hard due to my "wolf no post Controversy" thoughts


mostly trying to stay #true to myself because my instinct was to back off of talking about tofu earlier, haaa ...
btw jk about blu's vote being on emmy, i realized i miscounted



Spoiler: vote hist



VM/kyeugh 1270
kyeugh/ultracool 1299
*VM/ultracool 1326*
mewtini/ultracool 1327
mewtini/unvote 1340
mewtini/kyeugh 1357
mewtini/unvote 1359
*rnp/kyeugh 1453*
mewtini/emmy 1472
trebek/emmy 1473
rari/emmy 1482
*herbe/emmy 1489
keldeo/ultracool 1567
tofu/ultracool 1604*
emmy/ultracool 1612
*ultracool/emmy 1614*
blu/emmy 1717
*rari/ultracool 1730
kyeugh/tofu 1732
emmy/tofu 1634
trebek/ultracool 1736
blu/tofu 1747*


something like this


----------



## Trebek

eh screw it

i still have my previous Thoughts about ultracool and don’t have as many thoughts about tofu, but what better way to develop more thoughts than to do some science

*tofu*


----------



## mewtini

oh wait i messed something up (forgot my own vote lol.)


Spoiler: vote history



kyeugh/ultracool 1299
*VM/ultracool 1326*
mewtini/ultracool 1327
mewtini/unvote 1340
mewtini/kyeugh 1357
mewtini/unvote 1359
*rnp/kyeugh 1453*
mewtini/emmy 1472
trebek/emmy 1473
rari/emmy 1482
*herbe/emmy 1489
keldeo/ultracool 1567
tofu/ultracool 1604*
emmy/ultracool 1612
*ultracool/emmy 1614*
blu/emmy 1717
*rari/ultracool 1730
kyeugh/tofu 1732
emmy/tofu 1634*
trebek/ultracool 1736
*blu/tofu 1747
mewtini/tofu 1797
trebek/tofu 1876*


----------



## Herbe

mewtini said:


> mewtini said:
> 
> 
> 
> i should probably stop backing off as hard due to my "wolf no post Controversy" thoughts
> 
> 
> 
> mostly trying to stay #true to myself because my instinct was to back off of talking about tofu earlier, haaa ...
> btw jk about blu's vote being on emmy, i realized i miscounted
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler: vote hist
> 
> 
> 
> VM/kyeugh 1270
> kyeugh/ultracool 1299
> *VM/ultracool 1326*
> mewtini/ultracool 1327
> mewtini/unvote 1340
> mewtini/kyeugh 1357
> mewtini/unvote 1359
> *rnp/kyeugh 1453*
> mewtini/emmy 1472
> trebek/emmy 1473
> rari/emmy 1482
> *herbe/emmy 1489
> keldeo/ultracool 1567
> tofu/ultracool 1604*
> emmy/ultracool 1612
> *ultracool/emmy 1614*
> blu/emmy 1717
> *rari/ultracool 1730
> kyeugh/tofu 1732
> emmy/tofu 1634
> trebek/ultracool 1736
> blu/tofu 1747*
> 
> 
> something like this
Click to expand...

mewt remember to count unvotes


----------



## Herbe

Herbe said:


> mewtini said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> mewtini said:
> 
> 
> 
> i should probably stop backing off as hard due to my "wolf no post Controversy" thoughts
> 
> 
> 
> mostly trying to stay #true to myself because my instinct was to back off of talking about tofu earlier, haaa ...
> btw jk about blu's vote being on emmy, i realized i miscounted
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler: vote hist
> 
> 
> 
> VM/kyeugh 1270
> kyeugh/ultracool 1299
> *VM/ultracool 1326*
> mewtini/ultracool 1327
> mewtini/unvote 1340
> mewtini/kyeugh 1357
> mewtini/unvote 1359
> *rnp/kyeugh 1453*
> mewtini/emmy 1472
> trebek/emmy 1473
> rari/emmy 1482
> *herbe/emmy 1489
> keldeo/ultracool 1567
> tofu/ultracool 1604*
> emmy/ultracool 1612
> *ultracool/emmy 1614*
> blu/emmy 1717
> *rari/ultracool 1730
> kyeugh/tofu 1732
> emmy/tofu 1634
> trebek/ultracool 1736
> blu/tofu 1747*
> 
> 
> something like this
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> mewt remember to count unvotes
Click to expand...

namely mine


----------



## mewtini

haha OOPS. i will fix this later tbh. i threw it together while speed-catching up earlier.


----------



## Trebek

mewtini said:


> oh wait i messed something up (forgot my own vote lol.)
> 
> 
> Spoiler: vote history
> 
> 
> 
> kyeugh/ultracool 1299
> *VM/ultracool 1326*
> mewtini/ultracool 1327
> mewtini/unvote 1340
> mewtini/kyeugh 1357
> mewtini/unvote 1359
> *rnp/kyeugh 1453*
> mewtini/emmy 1472
> trebek/emmy 1473
> rari/emmy 1482
> *herbe/emmy 1489
> keldeo/ultracool 1567
> tofu/ultracool 1604*
> emmy/ultracool 1612
> *ultracool/emmy 1614*
> blu/emmy 1717
> *rari/ultracool 1730
> kyeugh/tofu 1732
> emmy/tofu 1634*
> trebek/ultracool 1736
> *blu/tofu 1747
> mewtini/tofu 1797
> trebek/tofu 1876*


lmao, for a moment i was like


----------



## mewtini

jk i'll fix it now i just searched thread for 'unvote' and herbe was the only one i was missing i think.


Spoiler: VOTE HISTORY III



VM/kyeugh 1270
kyeugh/ultracool 1299
*VM/ultracool 1326*
mewtini/ultracool 1327
mewtini/unvote 1340
mewtini/kyeugh 1357
mewtini/unvote 1359
*rnp/kyeugh 1453*
mewtini/emmy 1472
trebek/emmy 1473
rari/emmy 1482
herbe/emmy 1489
*keldeo/ultracool 1567
tofu/ultracool 1604*
emmy/ultracool 1612
*ultracool/emmy 1614*
herbe/unvote 1653
blu/emmy 1717
*rari/ultracool 1730
kyeugh/tofu 1732
emmy/tofu 1634*
trebek/ultracool 1736
*blu/tofu 1747
mewtini/tofu 1797
trebek/tofu 1876*


----------



## mewtini

tofu (5): skylar, emmy, blu, mewtini, trebek
ultracool (3): VM, keldeo, tofu, rari
emmy (1): ultracool
kyeugh (1): rnp


----------



## Mr. Ultracool

Whoops, I totally forgot in the upheaval caused by the claims, but for now, I'm going to

*unvote*


----------



## rari_teh

mewtini said:


> ultracool (3): VM, keldeo, tofu, rari


----------



## Herbe

ill go *monsieur ultracool* for right now to balance the wagons. also, mewt, you said (3) for mr. uc but then listed vm,keldeo,tofu, and rari, which is 4


----------



## mewtini

i'm doing my best i promise.,


----------



## Herbe

mr. ultracool your icon makes me want to trust you so desperately though


----------



## I liek Squirtles

rari_teh said:


> @I liek Squirtles do you think there’s a possibility that Skimbleshanks is an alien?


I don't think so, since he isn't an outsider to the cats. Everybody holds him in pretty high esteem. The only reason he -might- be an alien is that he interacts with humans a lot by virtue of his position but that seems flimsy to me.


----------



## mewtini

I liek Squirtles said:


> I don't think so, since he isn't an outsider to the cats.


wouldn't it be so depressing if grizabella were alien


----------



## Trebek

does alien victory come at the expense of town victory, or can they both happen simultaneously? ToS does multiple faction victory a lot for 3p, but idk if forum meta is different


----------



## mewtini

Trebek said:


> does alien victory come at the expense of town victory, or can they both happen simultaneously? ToS does multiple faction victory a lot for 3p, but idk if forum meta is different


as per mafia subforum rules, it ends the game;


Butterfree said:


> The game ends whenever:
> - there are only mafiosi (possibly including the terrorist) left alive, in which case the mafia wins.
> - there are only innocents (and possibly the alien and/or terrorist) left alive, in which case the innocents win (the terrorist and alien lose, however).
> - the only players left alive are the alien and/or terrorist, in which case everyone loses.
> *- an activated alien is voted to be executed, in which case the activated alien wins.*
> - the only players left are lovers, in which case they win.


idk how jack is doing it though


----------



## mewtini

another +town point for herbe: the signaling makes more sense from a pro-town perspective i think


----------



## mewtini

not impossible if not from a town pov though of course. but i also think he had no incentive to claim yet if he's a wolf


----------



## Trebek

mewtini said:


> not impossible if not from a town pov though of course. but i also think he had no incentive to claim yet if he's a wolf


this is where i’m at rn. if i start thinking about “he claimed bc he knew this is what we would think” i just end up in an endless wifom loop, and there are much more productive things to do than that


----------



## Bluwiikoon

I would like to stress that I'm serious about Indigo being alien. I can't say much else.


----------



## mewtini

brief/quickly written list coming out of this is something like

*towncore*
me, rari, skylar, bfree
and then
*yeah*
emmy, keldeo, herbe, vm, bluwiikoon (between this and below list i think)
*sure*
trebek, kokorico, mist, ils, m+7
*huff*
tofu, ultracool, rnp


----------



## Trebek

i’m still unsure how many grains of salt i am attributing to blu’s alienspec of emmy, but it does lead me to believe that if it isn’t emmy, that there is an alien somewhere else


----------



## mewtini

i'm vibing for now. vm is a volatile read, ils might move up tbh, i have keldeo paranoia, and the blu thing is maybe me just not grasping something but i'll trust in bfree seeming to understand it


----------



## mewtini

Trebek said:


> i’m still unsure how many grains of salt i am attributing to blu’s alienspec of emmy, but it does lead me to believe that if it isn’t emmy, that there is an alien somewhere else


what do you mean?


----------



## Tofu

mewtini said:


> i think tofu could maybe fall kind of directly into the archetype of wolf making calculated longposts (also she hasn't replied to the questions from earlier right?). i kinda want to actually talk about her now ...


Wait what didn't I reply to? I went through things where people tagged me. I have read everything as far as I know and I don't think I missed anything. Legit confused.

Kind of surprised people actually felt the need to vote for me because I haven't been participating a whole lot and just like ranted this morning. I'm not going to try to defend my own grumpness because that's usually how my inner typing dialogue comes across, woopsie poopsie.

I think it'd make more sense to like, play this game by finding the mafia instead of jumping on a train that had no reasoning behind it.

More importantly, did you all want my reasoning for Mr. Ultracool? I thought the last post was weird (like just saying he got no notifications seems like a weird excuse; I'd believe someone if they said "oh woops I've been busy") and noticed he has been following and liking things but not talking (so in short, I think he had been looking at this thread during the time he said he wasn't). For me that was enough for a vote instead of just abstaining again.


----------



## Trebek

mewtini said:


> Trebek said:
> 
> 
> 
> i’m still unsure how many grains of salt i am attributing to blu’s alienspec of emmy, but it does lead me to believe that if it isn’t emmy, that there is an alien somewhere else
> 
> 
> 
> what do you mean?
Click to expand...

the way i see it, i’m reading blu as the role you had in tvt, just played differently. it almost feels like he’s making the posts in order to alert the alien to his presence.


----------



## mewtini

Trebek said:


> the way i see it, i’m reading blu as the role you had in tvt, just played differently. it almost feels like he’s making the posts in order to alert the alien to his presence.


yeah but my tvt role was kind of weird/uncommon. idk about this


----------



## Trebek

mewtini said:


> Trebek said:
> 
> 
> 
> the way i see it, i’m reading blu as the role you had in tvt, just played differently. it almost feels like he’s making the posts in order to alert the alien to his presence.
> 
> 
> 
> yeah but my tvt role was kind of weird/uncommon. idk about this
Click to expand...

who knows if there’s an alien in this game, but i would be much less surprised now if there was one than i would’ve been yesterday


----------



## mewtini

Tofu said:


> Wait what didn't I reply to? I went through things where people tagged me. I have read everything as far as I know and I don't think I missed anything. Legit confused.


the series of posts on page 80, sorry!


----------



## Bluwiikoon

I mentioned it but I'm not super invested in the Tofu wagon, we just kinda want to see how you respond under pressure 

I should have more info for you guys tomorrow


----------



## mewtini

they weren't questions, just things that you didn't re-engage with


----------



## mewtini

Tofu said:


> More importantly, did you all want my reasoning for Mr. Ultracool? I thought the last post was weird (like just saying he got no notifications seems like a weird excuse; I'd believe someone if they said "oh woops I've been busy") and noticed he has been following and liking things but not talking (so in short, I think he had been looking at this thread during the time he said he wasn't). For me that was enough for a vote instead of just abstaining again.


yeah fair post. tbf i'm presently, like, fine with lynching ultracool; my earlier resistance was that he lurked as town in tvtropes and that was why i didn't fully engage with the train


----------



## Vipera Magnifica

i really don't get why there is a tofu wagon at all right now and i don't think it's a very good idea

i know out of thread information is basically cheating but as we have quickly learned it is basically impossible _not _to read your significant other when you are in a mafia game together and are around each other 24/7. i am more convinced of her being town than anything in this game right now, and she knows i am town as well. that's another reason i left the coded message for her, because she's the only one i fully trust. in truth she already figured out my role but wasn't allowed to say anything, but now that i have made that information available, she can say what my role is should i die. i don't know what her role is but i do know she's town and i feel kinda guilty knowing that because... but yeah... in the future we are just not going to be in any games together, which is why she dropped out of ACNH mafia

also nothing about her posts seems irregular, she has genuinely been frustrated by this game for a number of reasons (and i know because she keeps making _comments_). from her perspective i can see that this game hasn't been exactly... new player friendly, and it might be better if we could avoid using unnecessary acronyms when it's just as easy to type out the actual phrase (hell even i had to constantly google stuff in tvtropes mafia)


----------



## mewtini

the biggest pro-tofu argument for me atm is probably that vm is vouching for her, to be honest
@rari_teh how about those thoughts :D


----------



## rari_teh

simplified ordered tierlist bc it’s been ages since I last posted one

*slow blinks*
me
mewtini
skylar

*purr*
Butterfree
Bluwiikoon
Emmy
Herbe
M+7
Tofu
Trebek

*meow*
kokorico
I liek Squirtles
Keldeo

*waves tail*
VM

*???*
Superjolt chem
RNP
Ultracool


----------



## Vipera Magnifica

Vipera Magnifica said:


> in truth she already figured out my role but wasn't allowed to say anything, but *now that i have made that information available*, she can say what my role is should i die


made that information available _in-thread_, I meant to say


----------



## mewtini

mewtini said:


> Trebek said:
> 
> 
> 
> the way i see it, i’m reading blu as the role you had in tvt, just played differently. it almost feels like he’s making the posts in order to alert the alien to his presence.
> 
> 
> 
> yeah but my tvt role was kind of weird/uncommon. idk about this
Click to expand...

for reference. the role i had in tvt was a 3p role who won with the game's alien, but couldn't communicate with them. (i got scared of it and played it as vanilla town though.)


----------



## rari_teh

mewtini said:


> @rari_teh how about those thoughts :D


here goes: I quite believe that Tofu is town. I’m not, like, currently freaking out about the wagon or anything because I think it’s more _science!_ than anything and I feel like people will jump off as soon as she says more (I hope)

my reasoning behind this, vm-vouching aside, is that her posts during the vm/kyeugh scuffle and also this one:


Tofu said:


> I'm wondering why the same small handful of people are dominating the discussion. Boredom is a valid reason, but I see more investment in this. I read that much investment as suspicious, because it gives the power to a smaller group of people who are able to influence others by just being more vocal, which seems like a mafia-y thing to do. I would like to hear from some others who have managed to follow the discussion.
> 
> There are 17 people alive.
> 
> I'm side-eying Mewtini and Skylar at this point.
> 
> Btw, why would posting slightly or more or less memes mean anything lmao


ping me as super 

	
	
		
		
	


	




 newbie town

I know this is mostly a gut read, but I feel like it’s more substantiated than most gut reads I get

in short, unless madness ensues, I wouldn’t vote Tofu. ’tis all


----------



## rari_teh

the image got huge, apologies for that


----------



## Trebek

rari_teh said:


> mewtini said:
> 
> 
> 
> @rari_teh how about those thoughts :D
> 
> 
> 
> here goes: I quite believe that Tofu is town. I’m not, like, currently freaking out about the wagon or anything because I think it’s more _science!_ than anything and I feel like people will jump off as soon as she says more (I hope)
> 
> my reasoning behind this, vm-vouching aside, is that her posts during the vm/kyeugh scuffle and also this one:
> 
> 
> Tofu said:
> 
> 
> 
> I'm wondering why the same small handful of people are dominating the discussion. Boredom is a valid reason, but I see more investment in this. I read that much investment as suspicious, because it gives the power to a smaller group of people who are able to influence others by just being more vocal, which seems like a mafia-y thing to do. I would like to hear from some others who have managed to follow the discussion.
> 
> There are 17 people alive.
> 
> I'm side-eying Mewtini and Skylar at this point.
> 
> Btw, why would posting slightly or more or less memes mean anything lmao
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> ping me as super
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> newbie town
> 
> I know this is mostly a gut read, but I feel like it’s more substantiated than most gut reads I get
> 
> in short, unless madness ensues, I wouldn’t vote Tofu. ’tis all
Click to expand...

this is about where my head is at as well


----------



## Vipera Magnifica

hardclaiming tofu and i as lovers (but not in this game)


----------



## Trebek

hmm, how would one go about counterclaiming that *thinking emoji*


----------



## rari_teh

Trebek said:


> hmm, how would one go about counterclaiming that *thinking emoji*


----------



## Trebek

how have i never seen that before what


----------



## mewtini

yeah i admit i’m like trying to resist tunneling her, i just am trying to go with my gut more often this game and i didn’t like 1581 or whatever it was because i disagreed with it kind of patently

i will probably just be voting to balance wagons for now tbh


----------



## Tofu

@Vipera Magnifica I kinda just typed this because I thought I might die but, if you get to, then I get to make one too



Spoiler: coded message for vm



Question 1: Where is the sound still buffering?

The Flagler Museum = A
Ding Darling = B
The Dali Museum = C

Question 2: Whose skeleton have I yet to assemble?

Harold = D
Monty = E
Bernice = F

Question 3: What's the new queen's name?

Maypop = G
Francesca = H
Daffodil = I

Put together the letters to determine my role

ADG = Innocent Child
ADH = Vanilla Town
ADI = Alien
AEG = Doctor
AEH = Lovers
AEI = Lie Detector
AFG = Cop
AFH = Doctor
AFI = Serial Killer
BDG = Jailkeeper
BDH = Lynchproof
BDI = Lover Maker
BEG = Bodyguard
BEH = Survivor
BEI = Oracle
BFG = Bus Driver
BFH = Bulletproof
BFI = Vigilante
CDG = Motion Detector
CDH = Backup
CDI = Tracker
CEG = Vanilla Town
CEH = Executioner
CEI = Watcher
CFG = Vanilla Town
CFH = Commuter
CFI = Role Blocker



Anyway re @mewtini do you mean like, this post?



mewtini said:


> why is there separation between me and rari? we’ve both gotten pointed out for “insta-defending” so i’m just wondering


I was kinda like trying to make a joke saying I don't know anything about rari other than we played Push The Button together (obviously I remember I threw them under the bus in order to win as alien as a group--sorry lol). Didn't mean to be confusing but more like meant that was kind of the only way I differentiate rari from other people in my brain because there are a portion of people idk on here. I was also kinda incorrect in thinking rari joined as one of the people from another mafia forum--forgot where I thought I heard that (probably vm but maybe I just got people confused because I don't know everyone as well and mixed someone up).

I think some of my "insta-defending" sentiments just come from the reactions I see below the posts, like if the same people always like the same person's posts. (Although at the same time I think some people, just based on personality, are more inclined to do this or not do this. Even depending on where you look at the forums from, like if you're viewing from a phone it might be inconvenient to hit the like button a bunch of times)


----------



## Vipera Magnifica

AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH


----------



## Bluwiikoon

I really like hitting the Like button, it's pleasing


----------



## rari_teh

Tofu said:


> I think some of my "insta-defending" sentiments just come from the reactions I see below the posts, like if the same people always like the same person's posts. (Although at the same time I think some people, just based on personality, are more inclined to do this or not do this. Even depending on where you look at the forums from, like if you're viewing from a phone it might be inconvenient to hit the like button a bunch of times)


in my defense, I tend to react to pretty much everything tbh


----------



## RedneckPhoenix

IndigoEmmy said:


> Bluwiikoon said:
> 
> 
> 
> Emmy is just town and doesn't want to get lynched
> 
> 
> 
> This one is accurate.
Click to expand...

bing bing wahoo
*emmy*


----------



## Trebek

you know what? i’m gonna consider this science to be successful science

back over to
*mr. ultracool*


----------



## kyeugh

come on man


----------



## Trebek

kyeugh said:


> come on man


are you responding to me or did i ninja your post :o


----------



## rari_teh

RedneckPhoenix said:


> IndigoEmmy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Bluwiikoon said:
> 
> 
> 
> Emmy is just town and doesn't want to get lynched
> 
> 
> 
> This one is accurate.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> bing bing wahoo
> *emmy*
Click to expand...

I refuse to comment


----------



## kyeugh

Trebek said:


> kyeugh said:
> 
> 
> 
> come on man
> 
> 
> 
> are you responding to me or did i ninja your post :o
Click to expand...

ninjad


----------



## rari_teh

btw I gotta say that VM and Tofu’s coded roleclaims are the cutest thing <3


----------



## mewtini

RedneckPhoenix said:


> bing bing wahoo
> *emmy*


huh


----------



## Butterfree

*Thoughts on Ultracool*

I like his thought in #968 about why kyeugh wants the mafia to look at the flavor more; I don't think it was actually a suspicious post on kyeugh's part, but it's an original, off-kilter sort of thought that sounds like he's genuinely looking for stuff that might be suspect?

Then, in #974, he opines that the Trebek reaction test just seemed like a reaction test, rather than trying to throw shade - which makes his generally noncommittal nature and refusal to give opinions D1 more convincing, I think? Like, here's mewtini prompting him with an opportunity to commit to something and go along with existing suspicions in the thread, but he still maintains he doesn't think anything of it, which makes it sound like the lack of significant reads is genuine and not a result of just being nervous about giving thoughts as mafia.

On the other hand, in #978 he promises to go reread the Keldeo/Trebek interaction and then just disappears. I guess that could happen as town. @Mr. Ultracool Did you do this reread, and did you have any further thoughts?

Then his #1588 where he says he accidentally unsubscribed is kind of weird, but on the other hand he's also coming in with the same _sort_ of thought as earlier, noticing something he finds suspect and picking it out. #1613 is another original thought along those lines.

Overall I think he's definitely been more erratic today, but I'm still not suuuuper inclined to vote for him at the moment. Lurky mafia seems more likely to make non-attention-grabby posts and go with the flow a bit, I think, rather than coming up with these sorts of original suspicions pointing out stuff nobody else has noticed and _actively_ maintaining he doesn't find stuff that's being pointed out by others suspect. Not impossible, and obviously I've never seen how he plays as mafia, but it feels like odd scum play.

*Tofu*

She's basically not present at all on D1; makes a brief remark that she dislikes the thought of people scrutinizing others' online activity (can't be assed to keep reading back, but I'm assuming this was in response to Trebek(?)'s speculation about people who were online at the same time), then votes to abstain because she has no idea.

She vaguely mentions having suspicions she doesn't want to elaborate on in #1227.

She makes three posts in a row starting with #1347, the ones I originally townread, where she speculates about there potentially being lovers and suggests re kyeugh discussion that the mafia would probably go along with the town's lynches rather than starting their own, and that at the beginning of the game the mafia could probably easily nudge the town to vote incorrectly rather than having to do it themselves. I still think these are pretty good thoughts.

#1429 suspects mewtini and kyeugh for dominating the discussion, because being that invested and contributing so much is something mafia are more likely to do. I don't agree with this, but it seems like it comes from an okay place.

#1581 is kind of frustrated at the townreads on kyeugh, that people are defending her on the basis of "hypocop" (this is probably mostly referring to me). She suggests everyone's kind of blindly trusting her and mewtini, and says we should lynch kyeugh for the information content; she thinks Indigo is probably vanilla town and is 95% certain about VM's role.

(For the record, I hypocopped kyeugh before she came under suspicion by anyone; subsequently, I tried to act as if I might be an actual cop with a greencheck on her, because that's the point of hypocop. I found VM's statistical reasoning dodgy for the reasons I stated, and I definitely _do_ think it was proposed with the intention of persuading us to vote kyeugh; as I recall, he made that post after I questioned the idea that it was necessarily suspicious that kyeugh had voted for three townies. Now that I've dropped the pretense of possibly being a cop, for the record, I don't actually strongly townread kyeugh's behaviour in the thread; I picked her out as likely town at the very start, but since then have felt less confident, hence why I did admit I'd have to reread how kyeugh started the wagons.)

Then, finally, in #1604 she votes Ultracool after VM scumreads his comeback post.

I dunno, I don't feel great about lynching either of them? Tofu's _really_ against the grain and that frustration feels genuine. I'm not wild about her and VM vouching for each other based on IRL behaviour and commenting on the game privately (I heartly agree that we really don't need to use a billion opaque mafia acronyms, though), and I'm still not sure I trust VM, but that also seems like sort of a ridiculous play if they're actually both scum? Ugh.


----------



## RedneckPhoenix

i haven't had an idea what i was doing for abt 5 years and i don't intend to pretend that i do

shit's like "i have a thought about the thought that guy had about a thought that guy had" and i'm just here like "mechanical information pls :("


----------



## rari_teh

Butterfree said:


> I'm assuming this was in response to Trebek(?)'s speculation about people who were online at the same time


that speculation was from myuma iirc



Butterfree said:


> that also seems like sort of a ridiculous play if they're actually both scum?


def agree. though if Tofu’s indeed town, that doesn’t say much about VM’s alignment, as he could want to clear himself by association


----------



## Vipera Magnifica

Butterfree said:


> I'm not wild about her and VM vouching for each other based on IRL behaviour and commenting on the game privately (I heartly agree that we really don't need to use a billion opaque mafia acronyms, though), and I'm still not sure I trust VM, but that also seems like sort of a ridiculous play if they're actually both scum? Ugh.


yeah i am very sorry about this... we have decided it's basically going to be impossible for us to be in any future games together


----------



## Trebek

rari_teh said:


> Butterfree said:
> 
> 
> 
> that also seems like sort of a ridiculous play if they're actually both scum?
> 
> 
> 
> def agree. though if Tofu’s indeed town, that doesn’t say much about VM’s alignment, as he could want to clear himself by association
Click to expand...

yeah i don’t think they’re both scum, but the scenarios of them both being town and tofu town/vm maf both make more sense to me than tofu maf/vm town


----------



## kyeugh

i think where i’m at is like... i am 95% sure all the mafia are contained in the bottom list here. if i take out the people i want to townread (vm, tofu, keldeo, herbe), i’m left with:

mist
koko
ils
trebek
ultracool
m+7
... hey, that’s 6!

lol if that’s the actual scumteam. i guess my POE is list, pretty much. i think going on this i’m okay with a *mr ultracool *lynch rn, but a few caveats there: if even one of those players flips town, one of vm/tofu/keldeo/herbe is almost certainly scum. because i’m pretty sure i haven’t already narrowed down the exact scumteam d2, i’m extremely hesitant to offer any of those four a strong townlean based on vibes tbh. and if it has to be one of them, i think it’s tofu, hence my vote there. that’s basically how i’m seeing the game right now.


----------



## Butterfree

I think I'm done playing for tonight, by the way (well, I'll probably keep reading the thread and might make small posts but I'm not doing any more rereading). My presence may be somewhat spotty tomorrow because it's my husband's birthday and we're going to see his family, and because EoD is right around dinnertime (I _think_, will double check because UGH), I'm not confident I'll be around for the actual end, but I'll definitely be sure to figure out a vote before that point.


----------



## mewtini

@Butterfree can i ask if there’s anywhere you /do/ want to vote?

i am actually gone mostly fr right now but yeah. 
@Tofu since you know vm’s role, does it seem consistent to you wrt how he’s been playing? i guess you’ll probably say yeah but i figure i should ask

*ultracool*


----------



## qenya

so um, this is not even slightly what I was expecting to come back to, but?

Seems people have pretty much verified Emmy's claim already so I don't really have much more to add to that, but I'd like to remind everyone that Jack explicitly said this game would not have the healer clash mechanic, so if there are doctor(s), please don't second-guess yourself about healing her, just do it!

regarding other people:

I... don't really see why people are looking at Tofu? even for Science(tm)? nothing she's said has been remotely antitown and then there's the whole thing with being unable to hide from VM as well
herbe as rolecop is an interesting one! I agree it's usually a mafia role but presumably he knows that too and would want avoid the scrutiny? that is, in the world where herbe is mafia, I don't think he claims? (unless wifom)
Butterfree, you say you're basically a "one-shot vig" after your partner dies. Does that mean you get to choose who you kill after being told you can do so? Because the version in the rules sticky says fishing brothers pick their targets in _advance_ and immediately kill them if the other dies, which isn't quite the same thing. Just trying to get a feel for how strong this role is.
after doing some re-reading, I am not really vibing any more with VM's thing about kyeugh. while, yes, she looks a bit odd when you look at the votes in isolation, she wasn't actually tunnelling a great deal, it was more just sort of flitting around trying to start conversations / get people to talk. and toDay she's basically just been doing more of the same, just without the votes
i shall restrain myself from voting for RNP on principle because I did the same thing last game and it didn't go well for town
(this is post is shorter and later than usual because I spent all day playing Wargroove, oops. please understand. will try to be more present irl-tomorrow)


----------



## Butterfree

kokorico said:


> Butterfree, you say you're basically a "one-shot vig" after your partner dies. Does that mean you get to choose who you kill after being told you can do so? Because the version in the rules sticky says fishing brothers pick their targets in _advance_ and immediately kill them if the other dies, which isn't quite the same thing. Just trying to get a feel for how strong this role is.


It's set up slightly differently here than in the mafia rules sticky; I get to choose a player to kill during the next night phase _after_ my partner dies.


----------



## kyeugh

kokorico said:


> because I spent all day playing Wargroove


 understandable have a nice day


kokorico said:


> nothing she's said has been remotely antitown and then there's the whole thing with being unable to hide from VM as well


 i disagree tbh, but also like. is anyone jumping out at you as antitown? i’m getting ok vibes at minimum from basically everyone so i don’t think that can be the standard upon which we base our votes


----------



## Vipera Magnifica

also yeah probably done for the night

Tofu and I are going off to watch more Death Note


----------



## Butterfree

mewtini said:


> @Butterfree can i ask if there’s anywhere you /do/ want to vote?


Probably VM if anyone at the moment; he's the one person who's done something I've found kind of concretely dodgy. I think I can _probably_ buy that ILS was just thinking of the stage show, but haven't actually gone through his posts otherwise to see how I feel about him, and I'd still really like to reread Trebek and Superjolt, and possibly kyeugh. I will do my best tomorrow, dunno if I'll get through all of them.


----------



## Novae

I have VM as town so I'm slightly willing to trust the Tofu read but also I'm painfully aware of how easy it is for someone to pocket you if you're close with them (thanks @Seshas)

otherwise I suppose the only one in qva's list that I'd doubt is keldeo because a) he's a good wolf and b) I've read like, none of his posts so


----------



## qenya

Butterfree said:


> kokorico said:
> 
> 
> 
> Butterfree, you say you're basically a "one-shot vig" after your partner dies. Does that mean you get to choose who you kill after being told you can do so? Because the version in the rules sticky says fishing brothers pick their targets in _advance_ and immediately kill them if the other dies, which isn't quite the same thing. Just trying to get a feel for how strong this role is.
> 
> 
> 
> It's set up slightly differently here than in the mafia rules sticky; I get to choose a player to kill during the next night phase _after_ my partner dies.
Click to expand...

oh, that's good! means you (or your partner) get more information to plan your kill with!



kyeugh said:


> is anyone jumping out at you as antitown? i’m getting ok vibes at minimum from basically everyone so i don’t think that can be the standard upon which we base our votes


this is true. I too have a disappointing lack of scumreads

if we assume there's at least one or two wolves among the most active players, as VM (IIRC?) suggested, then I think PoE suggests Keldeo? but I don't really like that either - he's playing virtually identically to last game (except the trebekkening)

at the moment I think the best option is one of the relatively inactives/lurkers, like ultracool or maybe M+7?

it also occurs to me that mist hasn't actually said anything game-related yet since subbing in despite being online and acknowledging the thread


----------



## qenya

kokorico said:


> it also occurs to me that mist hasn't actually said anything game-related yet since subbing in despite being online and acknowledging the thread


ffs


----------



## kyeugh

keldeo is a tough one tbh, but honestly i think if he’s scum someone that isn’t me is going to have to figure that out


----------



## Trebek

kyeugh said:


> keldeo is a tough one tbh, but honestly i think if he’s scum someone that isn’t me is going to have to figure that out


yeah, ive been gut townleaning keldeo ever since the trebekkening. not sure what it would take to convince me otherwise but it could probably be done?


----------



## rari_teh

kyeugh said:


> keldeo is a tough one tbh, but honestly i think if he’s scum someone that isn’t me is going to have to figure that out


problem is, if we all leave it to somebody else and he’s maf…


----------



## kyeugh

kokorico said:


> if we assume there's at least one or two wolves among the most active players, as VM (IIRC?) suggested, then I think PoE suggests Keldeo? but I don't really like that either - he's playing virtually identically to last game (except the trebekkening)


mm, fair point... tbh the last couple posts are making me think i really need to look closer at keldeo. it didn’t even occur to me that everyone on my list of six is pretty much inactive.

i’m going to reread his iso. my vote might end up here later. thinking about it now i think his iso was pretty weird, and i also wonder if he’s trying to pocket me on purpose.


----------



## kyeugh

kyeugh said:


> thinking about it now i think his iso was pretty weird


* his eod


----------



## kyeugh

oh, i’ve been leaving blu out of my lists. that makes it seven, not six.


----------



## Bluwiikoon

I got a hypocop green on Keldeo so that's the sum of my feelings rn, in addition to my green on mewtini.

Is it mainly the alien stuff that makes you suspect me?


----------



## kyeugh

kyeugh said:


> oh, i’ve been leaving blu out of my lists. that makes it seven, not six.


rnp too lol.

so revised list:

rnp
blu
mist
m+7
koko
ils
trebek
ultracool
keldeo pending. i feel more okay putting tofu/vm aside now.


----------



## mewtini

ok, hi. going to make a big push to catch up tonight, probably starting with the developments of earlier/when i was rapidfire posting, so that i'm #current going into EoD and hopefully i will not stay up until 4am today. fingers crossed bro.


----------



## mewtini

keldeo i see you reacting rn. and may i just say. today was so wild.


----------



## Keldeo

I'm also here and catching up! It turns out "not playing mafia for a few hours" is an effective home remedy for mild headaches :p

re: posts on this page, @kyeugh @kokorico and also @Butterfree iirc - is there something specific I've done that you have an issue with, or is it more like, I've just not done enough for you to townread me and you're scared of my mafia game? If it's the latter, I guess that's fair (if a little frustrating lol) but if it's the former, I'd like to address it.


----------



## mewtini

sorry in advance for the nature of these next several posts, it'll probably be pretty rehashy and i'll be annotating pretty much post-by-post as i find stuff that's interesting. i was talking all day obvi but i was super in and out (basically was bouncing around cleaning for a thing that was happening at my house) and hadn't formed coherent reads or any real sense of linearity, so i'm taking the opportunity now to do so :p




Keldeo said:


> It turns out "not playing mafia for a few hours" is an effective home remedy for mild headaches :p


honestly yes. this game is very Head Hurt


----------



## mewtini

*first up! ultracool stuff:*
his playstyle is no longer quite as lurky as it was in tvtropes so i'm going to disregard that line of thought for now and just say that i don't independently care much about his d1. 

thus ...... i focus on His Actual Posting. 

overwhelmingly i notice that it's pretty like, """mech"""-related. he's pretty detached but i guess i come back around to a null on him; someone wolf!lurking around the thread, or innocent!someone trying to catch up, are i think equally fairly liable to pull out specific posts that go against the codified Way That You Should Play Mafia (like fishing, feeling weird about the cop discussion quoted) because they're easier to comment on and quite frankly i think that's NAI? 

now that i think about it that way, i think that i'll formally drop the light defending i did earlier on. i agree with what butterfree said - in that he didn't really take opportunities to shade, and he showed up with 'original' thoughts - but i'm not sure i'm as convinced of a town-positive read for him or that it's _odd _scumplay, because reading back, i think his content might have been more easily reproducible as maf than i realized, and it doesn't help a ton that he hasn't really discussed individual players beyond stuff like this

on the other hand i don't find myself really wanting to lynch him so we will see where the night takes me <3


Spoiler: quotes






Mr. Ultracool said:


> Well, I just found it weird that kyeugh posted this, because I don't get why the Mafia should care about the flavor:
> 
> 
> 
> actually i think the mafia should look at flavor more because every time we killed one of our own last game they glared at us in death and none of us noticed. just saying bro. just had to put that self own down
Click to expand...




Mr. Ultracool said:


> Sorry for only checking in this late - somehow, I must have accidentally unsubscribed from this thread or something, because according to my notifications, no one posted anything since yesterday.
> That said, isn't this
> 
> 
> Vipera Magnifica said:
> 
> 
> 
> can you [kyeugh] elaborate on this [kyeugh saying "pretty sure i know who the vig is"]?
> 
> 
> 
> basically fishing, i.e. antitown play?
Click to expand...




Mr. Ultracool said:


> IndigoEmmy said:
> 
> 
> 
> Announcement to all cops (if there are any): Please check kyeugh tonight.
> 
> 
> 
> Telling the cop whom to check seems quite fishy, too - what if the Maf has a Watcher?
> *IndigoEmmy*
Click to expand...


----------



## rari_teh

kyeugh said:


> oh, i’ve been leaving blu out of my lists. that makes it seven, not six.


what makes you shortlist blu tbh? while he did undergo some Read Decay® for me, I still don’t see him as a probable maf…?


----------



## mewtini

*the roleclaimfest, pt. i:*


Mr. Ultracool said:


> Well, you've made it pretty clear that you're a power role of some kind, thus painting yourself as a prime target for the mafia to kill toNight. So, it would perhaps be helpful for the Town if you claim before you (most likely) die?





Spoiler: quotes






Trebek said:


> hmmmmm. this [the post above] seems a little pushy? i feel like my stance on emmy is more towards vt/w, since (obviously i dont know emmy's brain so this is speculation) power role emmy would have more of a reason to actively claim/defend herself than just like, trying to guilt people lol. this frankly comes across as pushing for information / trying to push discussion off of yourself





Trebek said:


> basically, my main angst about this is that it seems like a super convenient way for ultracool to try to divert attention from his train over to emmy's train. i would feel a lot better about this post if he didnt currently have however many votes on him, which admittedly might be a logical fallacy on my end





Trebek said:


> yeah, i think i am going to stop thinking about PM meta, i dont want to be stuck in tinfoil hat land for the rest of the Day.





Trebek said:


> honestly, my gut is just telling me that its a weird role power that conveniently explains night immunity if emmy is mafia





+v trebek i think, in the world where emmy is town like i believe she is (pending me finishing readthrough). no reason for a wolf to go into defense mode here
otherwise why not let this go on. also tbqh i forgot to include this ultracool post above but it is a tonal shift from the rest of his posting, hm ...



kyeugh said:


> _(theorizing while the weird claim was still hanging over everyone) _
> her scumbuddies invented this in case she ever had to roleclaim, and she jumped on the first post urging her to do so.


also tbh if emmy were mafia ... i know that not everything gets run by everyone in the mafia but like. would they really have let her post a claim that was that insane tbh.


----------



## mewtini

*the roleclaimfest, pt. ii:*
- tinfoil possible for someone to claim that herbe/bfree are w/w because they substantiated the rolecop/fishing brother claims. but to recap, i will put that to rest, because i think/believe herbe knows my role given what little he's said about it. so unless y'all think it's herbe/bfree/me as w/w/w together ... three for three villagers babey!
- ignoring the alien discourse tbh because i think i'm just missing something there, but it later made me uncomfortable that blu was as insistent as he was about it. maybe he was memeing though. i haven't actually gotten to that part of the thread fully yet lol


Herbe said:


> Idk if trusting emmy is the mechanically safe option because a rolecop and a cop in the same game gives me pause. like, what the hell does the mafia have to balance out this situation? something scary I think.


reads to me like herbe has truly not considered the existence of a godfather, lmao, though this could come from a wolfy place i suppose


Herbe said:


> these were my bfree tangywhistles btw. post 1271 i hypocopped you and then 1290 something I made the fishing brothers comment. I was hoping you'd pay attention to my hypo of you and when you saw the FB comment, it might click (literally FB is so rare the only place I have ever seen it is on tcod, mafiauniverse doesn't even have a wiki page for it, so i thought it was a gamble to bring it up and might be too obvious)


i like this post and as i said earlier i think this sort of extended dogwhistle makes more sense as town than it does as mafia (otherwise why not just lay low until a claim/explanation became more necessary)


Trebek said:


> you said you also investigated mewt, right? i don’t want to give the maf too much role info early on, so the question i want to ask is, do you think mewt would have any motivation to false claim in the event that you are dead and she’s on the chopping block?


this is a really solvy question imo

i like VM's paranoia about herbe but i don't know if it makes him as towny as i thought it did at the time



I liek Squirtles said:


> Allow me to indulge in a tinfoil hat: would it be possible for the mafia to have some kind of tracking role, and for this to be some kind of elaborate bait to figure out who the healing role(s) are?


disagree because of _how_ the claim went down, but seems like a decent ils thought i guess? also w this in mind, herbe suggesting a coinflip heal makes me think he's even townier. either way. he is a rolecop and i read the claim pretty organically (also herbe mentioning that he knew rolecop could look suboptimal, and that he would have claimed some type of regular cop as a wolf, sat well with me)


----------



## mewtini

mewtini said:


> this is a really solvy question imo


i kinda don't get it but it still feels solvy lmfao.


----------



## Keldeo

Okay, quick thoughts, bolding people's names for readability: 

I see no reason to vote out *Emmy* today unless someone shows up and counterclaims. 

The whole coded messages thing, while I'm like... fairly opposed to on principle because it seems pretty close to private communications (not saying that VM and Tofu don't seem aware of this, they do), makes me think that *VM/Tofu* are probably just two town, because I believe VM's read on Tofu regardless of his alignment and I think mechanics liker VM probably wouldn't want to box himself into a fake claim so soon. I don't really want to wagon Tofu today. 

I think *Herbe's* rolecop hinting and claim felt like they could have come from mafia and I'm wondering why people besides VM don't seem to think so. I don't think the argument that he wouldn't have claimed because it looks suspicious holds water, that's just a big WIFOM to me and making big claims seems to be in Herbe's mafia range (see: The Mawile Incident). 

I do believe that Herbe is a rolecop regardless of his alignment, and probably gave a truthful result on *Butterfree*, which makes me think she just has to be town now? Like, I don't really see how a fishing brother could be or would be a useful role as mafia, since the whole point is you can get "revenge" if you get nightkilled, right. I do think that whoever her "brother" is should _not_ claim right now. Tiny tinfoil here that they're w/w but... I think that'll come out in the wash eventually, if we never get a "brother" claim. 

*Blu*'s treatment of the whole claim / suspicion (not just the alien thing, but also the alien thing) is raising my eyebrows a bit, particularly because his responses to my questions felt a little noncommittal and my initial read of him was pretty much just for tone and activity that have fallen off a bit today. I think people like Trebek and Butterfree may just be seeing something that I'm not about the theory, though.

I think *Mr. Ultracool* had a weird approach/perspective on Emmy's claim that I want to point out in a bit and so I think I'd like to keep my vote on him. But I also liked the against-the-grain things that Butterfree pointed out. I'm going to reread him and some other people now to see if I feel best voting here or somewhere else, because I don't want to vote Tofu over him.

--

Happy birthday to your husband, Butterfree!

Mildly interesting story about mafia playing with SOs: Apparently in one game I was playing, a couple were able to conceal their playing from each other, even while spending all their time together because they were literally in the late stages of planning their wedding. (The game was played on anonymous accounts with strict rules against hinting your identity.)

@rari_teh why am I a meow and what can I do to become a purr? This is a very important question.


----------



## mewtini

*post-roleclaimfest:*


kyeugh said:


> [starting the tofu wagon was] partly not science tbh. i got odd vibes from her last post; she might just be really pocketed which would be understandable but i don’t think the alternate situations are that absurd.


i didn't really consider her just being pocketed by vm tbh and maybe it makes me feel better about her. but i also did not think the alternate worlds were nearly as absurd as she made them out to be and i guess there's just a weird perspective-skewing effect i get off of her/VM's posts in almost equal measure (sort of how i felt about RNP discourse in tvtropes) that makes me gut uneasy (will ISO her later). i agree with rari's 1914 that her concerted post about "certain people dominating" could just be newbie town

as of now i think i will probably come out of this saying that either way, tofu is more likely to be villa, and VM is possibly of either alignment


Mist1422 said:


> VM town for paranoia on Herbe
> I liked and agree with Butterfree's analysis on Emmy so I think they're either both town or both scum and iirc herbe's check seems to mostly clear butterfree?


mist appearing


Trebek said:


> i’m still unsure how many grains of salt i am attributing to blu’s alienspec of emmy, but it does lead me to believe that if it isn’t emmy, that there is an alien somewhere else


i don't really agree with this because the alien-assistant role is so like, left-field, but think i like that trebek (after hearing me talk about my role post-tvt) made this connection?


----------



## RedneckPhoenix

going back and reading always helps. tbh i didnt even see emmy claim a role

that said? it reminds me heavily as someone in ToS who's mafia claiming to be a Survivor (someone who is able to guard at night, and wins just by staying alive)

in and of that, because the mafia won't kill one of their own, the mafioso can intentionally not kill someone and say "i was attacked by the mafia" and whatnot


i'm sticking with my emmy vote.


----------



## RedneckPhoenix

also emmy isn't activated alien cuz there were mafia kills both nights. don't fear it


----------



## mewtini

RedneckPhoenix said:


> that said? it reminds me heavily as someone in ToS who's mafia claiming to be a Survivor (someone who is able to guard at night, and wins just by staying alive)


hey, do you mind expanding on this? i thought survivor was usually 3rd-party (off of googling just now), and she did offer herself up for the nightkill either way honestly just by having claimed a power role


----------



## mewtini

*the last few pages:*


kokorico said:


> I agree it's [herbe's rolecop] usually a mafia role but presumably he knows that too and would want avoid the scrutiny? that is, in the world where herbe is mafia, I don't think he claims?


yes tbh. herbe said that he was aware of that _as he was claiming_ and even if you can think yourself into the "well maybe he wants us to think that he knows that so that we think that he's actually innocent," i honestly would just say that in that scenario he simply doesn't claim right then (which i still think arose because he was drawn out by "cops please claim") or he just claims regular cop, and is able to do fine there anyway since he'd be mafia

inb4 someone jokes about me being herbe pocketed again. i promise it is not just tone this time ok



kyeugh said:


> kokorico said:
> 
> 
> 
> if we assume there's at least one or two wolves among the most active players, as VM (IIRC?) suggested, then I think PoE suggests Keldeo? but I don't really like that either - he's playing virtually identically to last game (except the trebekkening)
> 
> 
> 
> mm, fair point... tbh the last couple posts are making me think i really need to look closer at keldeo. it didn’t even occur to me that everyone on my list of six is pretty much inactive.
> 
> i’m going to reread his iso. my vote might end up here later. thinking about it now i think his [EoD] was pretty weird, and i also wonder if he’s trying to pocket me on purpose.
Click to expand...

interested in hearing you expand on the second sentence later because the keldeo mentions in this group of posts kind of blindsided me
doubtful that your list contains all scum though, precisely because they're all like. people not getting widely townread hahaha.


----------



## mewtini

mewtini said:


> sentence


not sentence, paragraph


----------



## rari_teh

Keldeo said:


> @rari_teh why am I a meow and what can I do to become a purr? This is a very important question.


it’s mostly that, while your posts are very effective in moving the conversation forward and making people talk – which is great – as others pointed out, I don’t think you’d behave much differently as mafia?
and like. while I feel good about most of your posts, there were some things that gave me a little pause, trebekkening aside? like for example when I was pushing against Emmy’s fakeclaim you seemed very adamant on letting that one pass – but then again turns out that Emmy is (probably) just a cop, so I don’t know what mafia!you would gain from letting Emmy slide either
it’s just
you’re a puzzle to me, mate 3:

as to what can you do to climb my catlist, probably just keep being yourself I guess? if you’re town I’ll probably have more things to feel good about as time goes on and I’ll just accept that you’re unlikely to be mafia
like on tvt, where you were one of my only suspicions D1 and then raised to my towncore by D3 ~


----------



## Keldeo

RedneckPhoenix said:


> going back and reading always helps. tbh i didnt even see emmy claim a role
> 
> that said? it reminds me heavily as someone in ToS who's mafia claiming to be a Survivor (someone who is able to guard at night, and wins just by staying alive)
> 
> in and of that, because the mafia won't kill one of their own, the mafioso can intentionally not kill someone and say "i was attacked by the mafia" and whatnot
> 
> 
> i'm sticking with my emmy vote.


Sorry, did you end up seeing that she claimed cop? I see what you mean about her original claim, but I feel like we probably shouldn't vote out an un-counterclaimed cop if at all possible.


----------



## Trebek

oh god i started reading that and thought the bolds were votes and got so confused


----------



## Keldeo

Hi Jack I would like to vote *the mafia*


----------



## RedneckPhoenix

Keldeo said:
			
		

> Sorry, did you end up seeing that she claimed cop? I see what you mean about her original claim, but I feel like we probably shouldn't vote out an un-counterclaimed cop if at all possible.


why tf would a legit cop counterclaim, that'd fuck their whole game up. probably a mafia member was like "hey that role claim is fucking insane maybe just go with a cop claim to bait out the real cop for Murdering purposes"


----------



## rari_teh

RedneckPhoenix said:


> Keldeo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sorry, did you end up seeing that she claimed cop? I see what you mean about her original claim, but I feel like we probably shouldn't vote out an un-counterclaimed cop if at all possible.
> 
> 
> 
> why tf would a legit cop counterclaim, that'd fuck their whole game up. probably a mafia member was like "hey that role claim is fucking insane maybe just go with a cop claim to bait out the real cop for Murdering purposes"
Click to expand...

’tis a plausible theory, ngl, though too wifomy for my tastes
might reassess later given the right (or wrong?) circumstances


----------



## Trebek

mewtini said:


> mewtini said:
> 
> 
> 
> this is a really solvy question imo
> 
> 
> 
> i kinda don't get it but it still feels solvy lmfao.
Click to expand...

Basically, i wanted to try and use herbes knowledge to mechclear you while giving maf as little information as possible.



mewtini said:


> ]
> 
> 
> Trebek said:
> 
> 
> 
> i’m still unsure how many grains of salt i am attributing to blu’s alienspec of emmy, but it does lead me to believe that if it isn’t emmy, that there is an alien somewhere else
> 
> 
> 
> i don't really agree with this because the alien-assistant role is so like, left-field
Click to expand...

idk. the way i was looking at it was that alien-assistant was just as likely to appear as alien itself, which is why i reacted the way i did to blu being so adamant about alien


----------



## Trebek

RedneckPhoenix said:


> Keldeo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sorry, did you end up seeing that she claimed cop? I see what you mean about her original claim, but I feel like we probably shouldn't vote out an un-counterclaimed cop if at all possible.
> 
> 
> 
> why tf would a legit cop counterclaim, that'd fuck their whole game up. probably a mafia member was like "hey that role claim is fucking insane maybe just go with a cop claim to bait out the real cop for Murdering purposes"
Click to expand...

this sort of feels like its implying that no one should ever counterclaim, ever, because _what if_. support/healer roles exist so that counterclaiming can be done safely


----------



## Keldeo

RedneckPhoenix said:


> Keldeo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sorry, did you end up seeing that she claimed cop? I see what you mean about her original claim, but I feel like we probably shouldn't vote out an un-counterclaimed cop if at all possible.
> 
> 
> 
> why tf would a legit cop counterclaim, that'd fuck their whole game up. probably a mafia member was like "hey that role claim is fucking insane maybe just go with a cop claim to bait out the real cop for Murdering purposes"
Click to expand...

Hmm... I see your point, but I think the real cop should actually counterclaim if it isn't Emmy. Essentially, Emmy fake claiming cop here is like the real cop getting a free mafia check (while we have no evidence that a doctor is dead, even), which is really powerful, so why wouldn't they reveal that. So because there has not been a counterclaim, I'm assuming that Emmy is actually the cop. I guess another way to think about it is that if she is the cop, voting her out is really bad, whereas if she isn't the cop, we'll be able to catch on eventually if she's like not dead in N days or something.

It did cross my mind that Emmy's claim could be fake and baiting a counterclaim / doctor heals / etc., because it was sort of abrupt and her checks don't really give much information. But Butterfree read through and saw that her checks made sense with what she had posted, so I guess I'm trusting in that, too.

(I think if Emmy is mafia, this post makes RNP like 100% town, makes me look really silly, and also [redacted], but I'm not sure what it makes him if Emmy is town)


----------



## Keldeo

Trebek said:


> RedneckPhoenix said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Keldeo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sorry, did you end up seeing that she claimed cop? I see what you mean about her original claim, but I feel like we probably shouldn't vote out an un-counterclaimed cop if at all possible.
> 
> 
> 
> why tf would a legit cop counterclaim, that'd fuck their whole game up. probably a mafia member was like "hey that role claim is fucking insane maybe just go with a cop claim to bait out the real cop for Murdering purposes"
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> this sort of feels like its implying that no one should ever counterclaim, ever, because _what if_. support/healer roles exist so that counterclaiming can be done safely
Click to expand...

idk I mean, I see what he means - it's super early for a cop to claim. I guess that begs the question of why Emmy first claimed under so little pressure but I'm like, okay with the answer to that being /shrug


----------



## Trebek

Keldeo said:


> Trebek said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RedneckPhoenix said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Keldeo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sorry, did you end up seeing that she claimed cop? I see what you mean about her original claim, but I feel like we probably shouldn't vote out an un-counterclaimed cop if at all possible.
> 
> 
> 
> why tf would a legit cop counterclaim, that'd fuck their whole game up. probably a mafia member was like "hey that role claim is fucking insane maybe just go with a cop claim to bait out the real cop for Murdering purposes"
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> this sort of feels like its implying that no one should ever counterclaim, ever, because _what if_. support/healer roles exist so that counterclaiming can be done safely
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> idk I mean, I see what he means - it's super early for a cop to claim. I guess that begs the question of why Emmy first claimed under so little pressure but I'm like, okay with the answer to that being /shrug
Click to expand...

the first time i drafted that post, the first sentence was "i sorta get what hes saying here". somehow that just completely got lost between me thinking it and hitting post tho lmao
right now im just like. how bad is it actually if emmy is mafia and people arent counterclaiming bc of what rnp said? its not like w!emmy is throwing her weight around to try to get us to mislynch


----------



## rari_teh

Trebek said:


> Keldeo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Trebek said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RedneckPhoenix said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Keldeo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sorry, did you end up seeing that she claimed cop? I see what you mean about her original claim, but I feel like we probably shouldn't vote out an un-counterclaimed cop if at all possible.
> 
> 
> 
> why tf would a legit cop counterclaim, that'd fuck their whole game up. probably a mafia member was like "hey that role claim is fucking insane maybe just go with a cop claim to bait out the real cop for Murdering purposes"
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> this sort of feels like its implying that no one should ever counterclaim, ever, because _what if_. support/healer roles exist so that counterclaiming can be done safely
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> idk I mean, I see what he means - it's super early for a cop to claim. I guess that begs the question of why Emmy first claimed under so little pressure but I'm like, okay with the answer to that being /shrug
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> the first time i drafted that post, the first sentence was "i sorta get what hes saying here". somehow that just completely got lost between me thinking it and hitting post tho lmao
> right now im just like. how bad is it actually if emmy is mafia and people arent counterclaiming bc of what rnp said? its not like w!emmy is throwing her weight around to try to get us to mislynch
Click to expand...

something terrifying just passed through my head
what if rnp is the real cop


----------



## Trebek

Keldeo said:


> I'm like, okay with the answer to that being /shrug


i admittedly havent been on tcod for nearly as long as a lot of people, and dont really know the ins and outs of peoples personalities, but if i try to put myself in emmy's shoes i can see myself winding up copclaiming under little pressure, and for now im happy with that reasoning


----------



## Keldeo

rari_teh said:


> Trebek said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Keldeo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Trebek said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RedneckPhoenix said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Keldeo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sorry, did you end up seeing that she claimed cop? I see what you mean about her original claim, but I feel like we probably shouldn't vote out an un-counterclaimed cop if at all possible.
> 
> 
> 
> why tf would a legit cop counterclaim, that'd fuck their whole game up. probably a mafia member was like "hey that role claim is fucking insane maybe just go with a cop claim to bait out the real cop for Murdering purposes"
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> this sort of feels like its implying that no one should ever counterclaim, ever, because _what if_. support/healer roles exist so that counterclaiming can be done safely
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> idk I mean, I see what he means - it's super early for a cop to claim. I guess that begs the question of why Emmy first claimed under so little pressure but I'm like, okay with the answer to that being /shrug
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> the first time i drafted that post, the first sentence was "i sorta get what hes saying here". somehow that just completely got lost between me thinking it and hitting post tho lmao
> right now im just like. how bad is it actually if emmy is mafia and people arent counterclaiming bc of what rnp said? its not like w!emmy is throwing her weight around to try to get us to mislynch
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> something terrifying just passed through my head
> what if rnp is the real cop
Click to expand...

Maaan, this was [redacted]

If he's the real cop, I think he should hard claim. With where the thread seems to be at, I don't think we're voting out Emmy if that doesn't happen. But it is his decision tbh.


----------



## Trebek

also wow, cant believe i missed my chance to make the first post on page 100 special


----------



## Keldeo

Mewtini, can you talk to me more about Herbe? I don't see the long-term hinting about his role to Butterfree as towny since his role isn't super alignment-indicative - it seems mainly like a way to justify his role to Butterfree/to the thread later on, which can come from either alignment. 

I understand what you mean about not knowing why he'd want to claim at that point, but his posts after that subject seemed kind of focused on like... comparing himself and Emmy and sort of casting doubt on her claim in conjunction with his. Him suggesting a coinflip heal between Emmy and himself, ostensibly a much less powerful role, was the main thing that stuck out as weird to me. I think if the whole point of his claim was to compare their roles and potentially draw town healing to himself, that makes it more than worth the potential scrutiny from "well, he claimed a role that often is mafia" (particularly because that line of reasoning can be WIFOMed out of, like many people did.)


----------



## mewtini

i got trapped talking to my parents this whole time so i haven't gotten any farther but. sup.


----------



## mewtini

Keldeo said:


> his posts after that subject seemed kind of focused on like... comparing himself and Emmy and sort of casting doubt on her claim in conjunction with his.


i guess i'm operating under the assumption that herbe isn't realizing that "cops please counterclaim" is distinct from "_regular cops_ please counterclaim" but maybe you're catching a nuance that i'm not?



Keldeo said:


> I don't see the long-term hinting about his role to Butterfree as towny since his role isn't super alignment-indicative - it seems mainly like a way to justify his role to Butterfree/to the thread later on, which can come from either alignment.


i don't really know role cop metagame/strategy to be quite honest w you but i don't really get why he'd have to justify his role to butterfree? like if butterfree is indeed town, just saying "i have checked butterfree as green" is far different from "butterfree are you <role>"


----------



## mewtini

Keldeo said:


> Him suggesting a coinflip heal between Emmy and himself, ostensibly a much less powerful role, was the main thing that stuck out as weird to me.


oh i think i just messed up on that read. honestly i initially read that thing as an extension of the healer strategy discussed during tvtropes, where the intent was theoretically to prevent mafia from just killing doctors, but uh ... that does not apply here since the doctors (well, """doctors""") were known to the thread/mafia. heh


----------



## mewtini

Keldeo said:


> I'm wondering why people besides VM don't seem to think so.


honestly probably because VM is far more meta/mech focused than most of the thread atm


----------



## Keldeo

Sorry, I don't understand your questions? What I'm saying is that Herbe could be a mafia role cop, where laying down breadcrumbs to Butterfree that he knew her role was fishing brother would demonstrate to her that he was indeed a role cop. So then (with Emmy being town in this world), after the call for counterclaims, he sees the opportunity to truthfully claim his role, while allowing him to cast doubt on the real town cop.

btw why is it called fishing brothers... is the implication that the guys who give out fishing rods in Pokemon are capable of killing


----------



## Keldeo

omg, I had the opportunity to make a fishing license / license to kill pun and didn't take it


----------



## I liek Squirtles

eyy i said i'd do this and Here it is. 

Mewt

Offering a ton of insight and good lines of questioning consistently. Can't say anything that's not been said tbh

Keldeo, Trebek

At the beginning of the game, I was suspicious of Keldeo since he seemed a bit more reserved than he did in tvt, where he pinged me as town as much as Mewtini does now. 
My suspicions peaked during the whole Keldeo-Trebek back-and-forth (first vote in the game, came very suddenly). Once the whole thing resolved, though, I was more at ease about both,
especially with their D2 contributions. Still Keldeo seems a bit more opaque than in tvt where he was taking the role Mewt is now (which. valid, folks get tired). 

Emmy
I don't know if it was her experience or if she was being coached, but I felt pretty waffly about her, even after her claim.
I feel a bit better about her rn 

rari_teh
can't really blame them from suspecting my irregularities in thread and for pushing on them, which reads as town to me.

Butterfree
I think I inherently trust massive walls of text lmao so bfree has been pinging pretty town for me

VM, Tofu
See above. I also find their involvement in thread , even VM trying to wagon kyeugh. I read it as an attempt to get the ball rolling on -something- and it succeeded in doing that.

kyeugh
vibing with her and her defenses, but i'm going to reread when i am not tired


Blu
I'm getting worse vibes here. His interactions are mostly limited to popping in and asking people thoughts, and I'm warier here. He keeps coming back to Emmy- first by bringing up
kyeugh's joke hypocop claim (#869), throwing suspicion on her again in #1073, and voting for her in #1717. Then there's the whole alien thing, and that *really* piqued my interest.
This quote, in particular:



Bluwiikoon said:


> Speculating on whether Indigo is cop feels bad imo. Just gives mafia more of an incentive to shank her, which is bad because she's alien :-(


It's jokey, but it comes well after the whole alien debacle. Trying to halt discussion on Emmy's identity as cop seems as if he's trying to change the topic at hand and have folks
eventually forget about her. In case she is the real cop, and Emmy is out of sight out of mind, she proves an easy target for the mafia. It's late, and I'm sure I misinterpreted something
because of the hour, but his pigeonholing on Emmy rubs me a really bad way. 

I'll vote* Bluwikoon* for now.


----------



## mewtini

i think i'm just not expressing myself very well atm

i'm saying that if herbe thought _all _cops needed to counterclaim, then claiming against cop!emmy wouldn't be shading her, it would just be doing what he thought was like, the correct play
i don't think mafia needs to go out on a limb like this to discredit emmy when they can just nightkill her, so i don't see why herbe wouldn't just wait to claim later _unless_ he thought he was supposed to counterclaim


----------



## I liek Squirtles

As for those I didn't mention, I'm null on those, with the exception of RNP, whose latest comments are more towny to me.


----------



## mewtini

hey ils :D


----------



## Keldeo

mewtini said:


> i think i'm just not expressing myself very well atm
> 
> i'm saying that if herbe thought _all _cops needed to counterclaim, then claiming against cop!emmy wouldn't be shading her, it would just be doing what he thought was like, the correct play
> i don't think mafia needs to go out on a limb like this to discredit emmy when they can just nightkill her, so i don't see why herbe wouldn't just wait to claim later _unless_ he thought he was supposed to counterclaim


Well, if she's town, they couldn't be sure of nightkilling her right now since there could be a doctor around, right? That, to me, provides the missing reasoning behind mafia Herbe's claim.


----------



## I liek Squirtles

Hi! and sorry for interrupting the herbe discussion,,


----------



## mewtini

king ils has christened page 101



Keldeo said:


> Well, if she's town, they couldn't be sure of nightkilling her right now since there could be a doctor around, right? That, to me, provides the missing reasoning behind mafia Herbe's claim.


oh i'm a fool. sorry, i just really did not think about that, am slow right now. i'm in agreement now :')))


----------



## Keldeo

Hey ILS!

I think the current wagons are Mr. Ultracool and Tofu (going back to do a count now) - I know you said Mr. Ultracool is null, but it would be great to get any more detailed thoughts on him, if you have them? Also, do you have any thoughts on Tofu alone or is she sort of lumped in with thinking VM is town?


----------



## I liek Squirtles

I am going to bed rn but I'll provide those ASAP


----------



## mewtini

Keldeo said:


> btw why is it called fishing brothers... is the implication that the guys who give out fishing rods in Pokemon are capable of killing


i love keldeo



rari_teh said:


> it’s mostly that, while your posts are very effective in moving the conversation forward and making people talk – which is great – as others pointed out, I don’t think you’d behave much differently as mafia?
> and like. while I feel good about most of your posts, there were some things that gave me a little pause, trebekkening aside? like for example when I was pushing against Emmy’s fakeclaim you seemed very adamant on letting that one pass – but then again turns out that Emmy is (probably) just a cop, so I don’t know what mafia!you would gain from letting Emmy slide either


first sentence: keldeo gives me the same pause. i think that the important thing is mostly to figure out like ... where his guidance is actually leading, and if that looks like it's a good place or not. right now i feel like it is (need to iso him still, that's what i was gonna do before i had to leave)

the rest of it - i didn't really read it as him letting it pass, i thought it was him just not wanting to go into like. linkspec and outright pressuring her? need to reread


RedneckPhoenix said:


> why tf would a legit cop counterclaim, that'd fuck their whole game up. probably a mafia member was like "hey that role claim is fucking insane maybe just go with a cop claim to bait out the real cop for Murdering purposes"


this has been handled already but to reiterate. aiui counterclaiming is part of the Correct Play because it reveals mafia, which is always the first priority; if emmy gets counterclaimed, she's likely mafia, we lynch her. cop gets killed the night after (well, hopefully healed) but at least we're down a wolf


Trebek said:


> idk. the way i was looking at it was that alien-assistant was just as likely to appear as alien itself


thanks for clarifying. i kind of disagree tbh especially where as things stand, we have 6 mafia and everyone else is either town or 3p - an alien-assistant role feels like it cuts into that a bit too much to me?


Keldeo said:


> I guess that begs the question of why Emmy first claimed under so little pressure but I'm like, okay with the answer to that being /shrug


this is also my main question around that whole roleclaim but i genuinely am kind of just thinking that's how she is. and like. this is the point of hoping for counterclaims to come out if they exist


I liek Squirtles said:


> It's jokey, but it comes well after the whole alien debacle. Trying to halt discussion on Emmy's identity as cop seems as if he's trying to change the topic at hand and have folks eventually forget about her. In case she is the real cop, and Emmy is out of sight out of mind, she proves an easy target for the mafia. It's late, and I'm sure I misinterpreted something because of the hour, but his pigeonholing on Emmy rubs me a really bad way.


honestly i really agree with this and i'm just so glad that someone else got irked by this particular post
blu is tricky for me because he was a big toneread for me and he just felt SO pure d1 but something about his alien posting (not the theory existing itself, but the way in which he did it) does not sit right with me because, if i read it with w!blu in mind, it's a way to incite panic and funnel it into getting a cop lynched (especially when he didn't tinfoil it)

i'm trusting bfree for now though on that front


----------



## mewtini

i wouldn't say i actually scumread bluwiikoon at the moment just to be clear, i just feel vindicated that that post pinged someone else :p


----------



## Keldeo

Yeah I vibe strongly with feeling weird about the Blu alien thing, but if Butterfree says it should be let go, I'm gonna let it go for now.

Also yeah - rari, what I was getting at about Emmy's original claim was not disagreement with your pressing it (I was also skeptical of it) but disagreement with the ways in which you went about it. Because like... it's not barred by the rules, but I semi-strongly feel that like, links and parts of role PMs, similarly to online times, aren't really fair game to speculate about because they aren't "part of the game," at least not as much as posts or actions. 

Also also, given Emmy being town as an assumption, Rari's stubborn treatment of Emmy's original claim was like... I don't really see a mafia them going after someone they know to be town in that way? It was the like, visceral reaction of "oh your claim is so fake" specifically that I see as kind of hard to fake, like their one kind of melodramatic "oh snap, I can't unsee that" post in TVT.


----------



## Trebek

mewtini said:


> Trebek said:
> 
> 
> 
> idk. the way i was looking at it was that alien-assistant was just as likely to appear as alien itself
> 
> 
> 
> thanks for clarifying. i kind of disagree tbh especially where as things stand, we have 6 mafia and everyone else is either town or 3p - an alien-assistant role feels like it cuts into that a bit too much to me?
Click to expand...

thats valid tbh. i think im just biased bc my tvt experience was lurking/talking with you, who happened to have that role.

i do still think that _if_ an alien-assistant appears, it's likely to be blu. im not using that as an excuse to not think of other possibilities tho


----------



## mewtini

more keldeo thoughts before i iso some people
i think we need to be wary of actually suspecting him just because "his play could be NAI" and because we're scared of his wolf game, especially when consensus has been that he's playing exactly as he did in tvtropes. on my gut/due to some subtleties of his tone i feel like he's probably just town and i think he could be doing far less in terms of giving insight, etc, and still be just as towny-looking

like has he actually _done_ anything that makes him look worse than others, aside from play a game that could hypothetically be similar to a playstyle that apparently none of us know about? idk. i don't think i ever vote keldeo today and i don't really want him to be the first step in a process of elimination/PoE when he's immensely useful as town and, in particular, when i don't actually scumread him above other people yet

and now i will read back


----------



## mewtini

Trebek said:


> i think im just biased bc my tvt experience was lurking/talking with you, who happened to have that role.


also remember that i got doubted a lot for claiming that role tbh. a lot of people read it as purely opportunistic, which is what - combined with this game's size/the ramifications such a role has on setup - makes me think that it's a semi-rare role

if blu is indeed alien-assistant 2.0 i'll just leave the game though


----------



## Keldeo

Keldeo said:


> Also yeah - rari, what I was getting at about Emmy's original claim was not disagreement with your pressing it (I was also skeptical of it) but disagreement with the ways in which you went about it. Because like... it's not barred by the rules, but I semi-strongly feel that like, links and parts of role PMs, similarly to online times, aren't really fair game to speculate about because they aren't "part of the game," at least not as much as posts or actions.
> [/QUOTE
> Pardon the weird comparison but how I think of it is like, if we were actually a group of cats discussing trying to find the evil cats, there's no real corresponding reasoning to "when the forum says they were last online" or "what page their role PM links to", haha
> 
> I recognize that I might have a minority opinion here and again that this isn't actually barred by any rules formally, so.


----------



## mewtini

F for the missing bracket in kel's quote


----------



## Trebek

mewtini said:


> Trebek said:
> 
> 
> 
> i think im just biased bc my tvt experience was lurking/talking with you, who happened to have that role.
> 
> 
> 
> also remember that i got doubted a lot for claiming that role tbh. a lot of people read it as purely opportunistic, which is what - combined with this game's size/the ramifications such a role has on setup - makes me think that it's a semi-rare role
> 
> if blu is indeed alien-assistant 2.0 i'll just leave the game though
Click to expand...

yeah. my initial Thoughts about this weren't necessarily thoughts about how likely the role was to appear - just Thoughts about what would happen if the role existed.


----------



## mewtini

mewtini said:


> more keldeo thoughts before i iso some people
> i think we need to be wary of actually suspecting him just because "his play could be NAI" and because we're scared of his wolf game, especially when consensus has been that he's playing exactly as he did in tvtropes. on my gut/due to some subtleties of his tone i feel like he's probably just town and i think he could be doing far less in terms of giving insight, etc, and still be just as towny-looking
> 
> like has he actually _done_ anything that makes him look worse than others, aside from play a game that could hypothetically be similar to a playstyle that apparently none of us know about? idk. i don't think i ever vote keldeo today and i don't really want him to be the first step in a process of elimination/PoE when he's immensely useful as town and, in particular, when i don't actually scumread him above other people yet
> 
> and now i will read back


i know that he's like. a good player obviously. but i think it's meh to hold him to the standard of the Flawless Wolf Player that we think he _could_ be as opposed to just focusing on what he's trying to push us towards


----------



## Keldeo

Also just my 2c, I've never seen alien assistant before, and in a game starting with only 10 people who couldn't win with mafia, it does seem weird for there to be two third parties there. Like, there'd be only 8 townies of 14.

I do agree that the possibility popping up for Trebek is mildly solve-y seeming.


----------



## mewtini

Keldeo said:


> I've never seen alien assistant before


yes you have! me! :D


----------



## Trebek

yeah, in retrospect my initial read was heavily biased by the fact that that i basically experienced tvt entirely vicariously through mewt. i dont want to disregard it in the case that blu comes back into the spotlight, but i'm totally happy to put that Thought in cryogenics for now


----------



## Keldeo

(before TVTropes, I mean)



mewtini said:


> mewtini said:
> 
> 
> 
> more keldeo thoughts before i iso some people
> i think we need to be wary of actually suspecting him just because "his play could be NAI" and because we're scared of his wolf game, especially when consensus has been that he's playing exactly as he did in tvtropes. on my gut/due to some subtleties of his tone i feel like he's probably just town and i think he could be doing far less in terms of giving insight, etc, and still be just as towny-looking
> 
> like has he actually _done_ anything that makes him look worse than others, aside from play a game that could hypothetically be similar to a playstyle that apparently none of us know about? idk. i don't think i ever vote keldeo today and i don't really want him to be the first step in a process of elimination/PoE when he's immensely useful as town and, in particular, when i don't actually scumread him above other people yet
> 
> and now i will read back
> 
> 
> 
> i know that he's like. a good player obviously. but i think it's meh to hold him to the standard of the Flawless Wolf Player that we think he _could_ be as opposed to just focusing on what he's trying to push us towards
Click to expand...

If it helps for context, Butterfree, qva, Mist, and RNP have seen my mafia game fairly recently, and MP7 very recently, and I snowed at least Butterfree and MP7 fairly well. 

I am actually going to go read Mr. Ultracool and reread EOD1 now so I can get sleep before waking up for EOD, haha


----------



## Keldeo

ultracool (8): VM, keldeo, tofu, rari, herbe, trebek, skylar, mewtini
tofu (2): emmy, blu
Emmy (1): rnp
Blu (1): ILS

Hmm... this is a weird wagon formation. I did not realize it was that many on Ultracool, with only Butterfree and semi-mewtini that I can remember defending him.

tbh if I color it in it seems mostly pure (Herbe and Trebek stick out there), but Mr. Ultracool is like, the lurky type that I can imagine active townies all dogpiling, almost regardless of his alignment.


----------



## mewtini

oh jeez wtf
i've been keeping count but didn't realize it was that uh. dire or stacked of a situation.
much to think about


----------



## Keldeo

Hey Trebek, where do you weigh in on Ultracool, Herbe, and ILS?


----------



## mewtini

i think at this point since ultracool has been talking more, mafia would be more likely to try to interfere with/reroute his wagon if he were indeed a wolf


----------



## Keldeo

I guess Butterfree didn't even really defend him so much as like, say why he wasn't her top suspect.



mewtini said:


> i think at this point since ultracool has been talking more, mafia would be more likely to try to interfere with/reroute his wagon if he were indeed a wolf


If he's mafia, you think other mafia would be like, actively sticking their neck out for him? 

tbh it felt like the wagons on Emmy and Tofu both kind of collapsed, and everyone from there went onto Ultracool.


----------



## mewtini

i don't know about sticking their neck out, since there's kind of not much to talk about with him and most of the pro-ultracool casing has been done pretty much by me, but like
it just feels weird to have that many votes at once on someone who hasn't done very much of anything and not have anyone actually scumread him iirc. except for i think VM, who only scumread ultracool because he said "isn't fishing anti-town" (which, like, it is). some effort to break down the wagon wouldn't necessarily be sticking their neck out imo because all it would take is "let's not lynch the lurker" and some kind of case on literally anyone else, right?


Keldeo said:


> tbh it felt like the wagons on Emmy and Tofu both kind of collapsed, and everyone from there went onto Ultracool.


pretty much yeah


----------



## Keldeo

Oh yeah, mewtini, I wanted your feedback on my thought about these two posts in particular. It seems kind of like Mr. Ultracool thinks Emmy is mafia in the first one and then town in the second one (presenting Emmy as a mafia kill target?) which is a bit weird to me. He was also clearly present afterwards and reacting but not posting anything, although he did that in TVTropes too.


Mr. Ultracool said:


> IndigoEmmy said:
> 
> 
> 
> Announcement to all cops (if there are any): Please check kyeugh tonight.
> 
> 
> 
> Telling the cop whom to check seems quite fishy, too - what if the Maf has a Watcher?
> *IndigoEmmy*
Click to expand...




Mr. Ultracool said:


> IndigoEmmy said:
> 
> 
> 
> Ok unless i'm about to get lynched i won't reveal what cat i am. Because i am certainly not an evil looking cat
> 
> 
> 
> Well, you've made it pretty clear that you're a power role of some kind, thus painting yourself as a prime target for the mafia to kill toNight. So, it would perhaps be helpful for the Town if you claim before you (most likely) die?
Click to expand...


----------



## Keldeo

mewtini said:


> it just feels weird to have that many votes at once on someone who hasn't done very much of anything and not have anyone actually scumread him iirc. except for i think VM, who only scumread ultracool because he said "isn't fishing anti-town" (which, like, it is). some effort to break down the wagon wouldn't necessarily be sticking their neck out imo because all it would take is "let's not lynch the lurker" and some kind of case on literally anyone else, right?


Yeah, that's fair. Do you have anyone else you'd like to wagon if you're getting cold feet about him?

I'd be vaguely paranoid that "let's not lynch the lurker" is exactly what you're doing right now if you weren't Emmy's n0 lol.


----------



## mewtini

er, the first one came before she claimed at all though and the second comes after her fakeclaim, right? so idk if i see much relation
my main thought is just that the second one is weird


----------



## Keldeo

No, she claimed being Alonzo / triple-bulletproof right after the second post.


----------



## mewtini

Keldeo said:


> Yeah, that's fair. Do you have anyone else you'd like to wagon if you're getting cold feet about him?


in an "who do i actually want to lynch now that we're close to EoD" sense, no not really. i kind of don't care that much about an ultracool lynch anymore, i'm only thinking about it that way now because i feel like an 8 to 2 wagon split is awkward and is more unanimous than like anything in tvtropes except for when we voted to kill someone who got inspected as mafia :p


----------



## mewtini

i'll probably look into whether or not there is anyone else i want to wagon though because i am feeling some type of way about that vote distribution. but seeing as it's like 4am, probably won't happen in any meaningful way :p



Keldeo said:


> No, she claimed being Alonzo / triple-bulletproof right after the second post.


oh, sorry, misread
uuuh ... i don't concretely know what i think about that honestly. that is really weird


----------



## mewtini

all that elapsed is emmy saying "you'll regret lynching me" and some reveal talk
is _that_ the watcher tactic in action?


----------



## Trebek

Keldeo said:


> Hey Trebek, where do you weigh in on Ultracool, Herbe, and ILS?


i dont feel terribly good about ultracool. i mentioned this earlier, but my gut gave me red flags at 1638, just in the way that he was almost blackmailing emmy into a claim? didnt help that the only post hes made since then has been to unvote.

ive spend a while debating back and forth on what alignment i think herbe falls into. i keep psyching myself out with wifom arguments of like "w! herbe wouldnt claim this early! maybe w!herbe knew I'd think that! maybe v!herbe knew id think that id think that!" times infinity. As it currently stands, my gut is still telling me to trust him, but i wouldnt give him a get out of jail free card.

i'm mostly Head Empty on ILS at the moment. i def appreciated his reads, especially on blu, but idk how i feel about translating that read into an immediate blu vote (this admittedly might be bc part of my brain is still tinfoilhatting a 3p blu lmao)


----------



## mewtini

... yeah that's exactly what you're getting at isn't it.


----------



## mewtini

mewtini said:


> all that elapsed is emmy saying "you'll regret lynching me" and some reveal talk
> is _that_ the watcher tactic in action?


to elaborate. i'm pretty sure i see what keldeo is saying now.
ultracool abruptly offers emmy up as a mafia kill after discussing the watcher role (which feels like it's too obvious, almost?) in an attempt to figure out what healers try to protect her


----------



## Keldeo

Yeah, I looked over his ISO and idk. Could be mafia, I'm kinda hung up on that contradiction I just pointed out and he hasn't really answered any questions I've asked him. Could be town, he lurked through TVT and I see what Butterfree means about him pointing out like, oblique things that the thread at large isn't really considering -



Mr. Ultracool said:


> I'm really, really sorry for not posting, like, at all, but I just genuinely can't manage to read anything of relevance out of toDay. The only things I found even slightly suspicious were the WIFOM-Macavity Claim and kyeugh imploring the Mafia to read more into the kill flavor, since they are pretty much the only ones who would know exactly why and how someone was killed :/


This seems pretty pure maybe?

An 8-2 wagon is just like... I really don't know how often that actually ends up flipping mafia, lol. I agree with you that I don't know why his partners are letting this happen if they can help it - could just be that the thread momentum is just against them or something?

I'm not super invested in stopping the wagon. Maybe I'll try to science or something because I don't want EOD to be a nothingburger if he is actually just a town that a lot of town shrug-voted.


----------



## mewtini

but then there's still the weird wagon composition that i'm worried about, huff


----------



## mewtini

oh ninja'd.


----------



## Keldeo

mewtini said:


> all that elapsed is emmy saying "you'll regret lynching me" and some reveal talk
> is _that_ the watcher tactic in action?


Oh, I guess I should be clear that what I'm looking at there is Mr. Ultracool's mindset wrt what he thinks about Emmy's alignment. I think mafia watcher is... a really rare role, so though it's not out of the question I don't put a lot of stock into that theory, particularly because if Emmy is town, no one besides her would know that she would claim cop.


----------



## Trebek

hnnnnnnng. on the one hand, this wagon feels too lopsided to be actually hitting a mafia


----------



## mewtini

ooh, okay, sorry. got overexcited there. i thought i'd figured out a puzzle lmao. i was mostly thinking that nothing of substance had elapsed between the two posts and that him offering her up as the nightkill was like ... quick

i'm not totally sure what you're asking for in that case tbh


----------



## Trebek

hit send by accident rip

on the other hand, i really dont know who i would switch my vote to


----------



## Keldeo

Keldeo said:


> no one besides her would know that she would claim cop.


What I mean by this is like, hypothetical AU Emmy is, say, actually bulletproof, claims when asked, and is never gonna be a healer target. The watcher plan, already somewhat contrived, is totally busted.


----------



## mewtini

i don't think i'm following, i'm sorry


----------



## Trebek

Keldeo said:


> Keldeo said:
> 
> 
> 
> no one besides her would know that she would claim cop.
> 
> 
> 
> What I mean by this is like, hypothetical AU Emmy is, say, actually bulletproof, claims when asked, and is never gonna be a healer target. The watcher plan, already somewhat contrived, is totally busted.
Click to expand...

my laggy brain has been struggling to fully piece together the argument from the last few posts (not anything against what youre saying, i just have low reading comprehension)

is the scenario youre considering w!ultracool convincing w!emmy to adjust claim to cop in order to utilize a w!watcher?


----------



## Keldeo

Basically, what I noticed originally was that Ultracool was treating Emmy with suspicion in the first post and then seemed to be considering the world where she was town in the second post - not damning but it stuck out to me. It's not anything to do with the actual content of the posts / the watcher theory, because mafia Ultracool couldn't know that town Emmy would actually claim a valuable, doctor-worthy role.



Trebek said:


> ive spend a while debating back and forth on what alignment i think herbe falls into. i keep psyching myself out with wifom arguments of like "w! herbe wouldnt claim this early! maybe w!herbe knew I'd think that! maybe v!herbe knew id think that id think that!" times infinity. As it currently stands, my gut is still telling me to trust him, but i wouldnt give him a get out of jail free card.


What did you think about my and mewtini's discussion of Herbe earlier?

Same thought on ILS tbh, I appreciated his read wall and think it probably makes him not mafia partners with Blu but idk if I've been able to take a lot else from it.


----------



## mewtini

damn i really overthought that. thanks. agree. ugh but the wagon comp ... i just don't think ultracool is like, unpopular enough for no one to come to his rescue somewhat?


----------



## Trebek

Keldeo said:


> Trebek said:
> 
> 
> 
> ive spend a while debating back and forth on what alignment i think herbe falls into. i keep psyching myself out with wifom arguments of like "w! herbe wouldnt claim this early! maybe w!herbe knew I'd think that! maybe v!herbe knew id think that id think that!" times infinity. As it currently stands, my gut is still telling me to trust him, but i wouldnt give him a get out of jail free card.
> 
> 
> 
> What did you think about my and mewtini's discussion of Herbe earlier?
Click to expand...

I definitely found myself nodding along to a lot of the ideas in the discussion - thats actually where most of the basis of me being unsure comes from, since i was townleaning him a lot more earlier. the discussion didnt flip my opinion of him, but it definitely convinced me to keep an extra eye out in future interactions.


----------



## mewtini

i'm comfortable on my vote but that lopsidedness just feels like a bad omen :| idek who else i'd wagon atm. stress moment


----------



## mewtini

mewtini said:


> comfortable


i meant to say 'comfortable enough' because without that second word the post sounds stupid.


----------



## Trebek

mewtini said:


> i'm comfortable on my vote but that lopsidedness just feels like a bad omen :| idek who else i'd wagon atm. stress moment


this is me rn as well :( hopefully EoD will bring about more stuffs


----------



## Keldeo

Oh yeah starting to look at EOD1 reminded me -

@M Plus 7 Hope you can make it in for EOD tbh! Cliffs notes on the last however many pages: 
- IndigoEmmy fakeclaimed a weird role and then claimed Skimbleshanks, cop with n0 mewtini and n1 Seshas
- Herbe claimed Victoria, role cop with n0 mewtini and n1 Butterfree as "fishing brother", which she confirmed (one of a pair of vengefuls who gets a revenge kill when the other person dies)
- Mr. Ultracool is the main wagon right now with no real counterwagon
- there's an ISO button now!

(Am I giving MP7 cliffs because I want him to be town and get engaged? Yes. Will I probably keep giving him another day here just because I invited him and want him to be town? Yes. Do I actually think he's town... uh... pending until he does deeper analysis. Liked the agendalessness in his EOD1, his tone, and his questions well enough. I think he's accurate in saying that he seems like he's replacing in for himself every time he enters thread, and that's sort of getting in the way of me seeing something really unfakeable.)


----------



## RedneckPhoenix

i'm always 100% town. gm's are too scared to give me a mafia role


----------



## RedneckPhoenix

i will hard claim that i am not a cop.


----------



## RedneckPhoenix

it's 3 am i'm going to bed start a wagon on the game itself pls


----------



## mewtini

i know i said i'd iso keldeo and like. i did go through for a bit. but it's 4am and my head is just like


kyeugh said:


> keldeo is a tough one tbh, but honestly i think if he’s scum someone that isn’t me is going to have to figure that out


at least for toDay :|


----------



## Keldeo

mewtini said:


> i'm comfortable on my vote but that lopsidedness just feels like a bad omen :| idek who else i'd wagon atm. stress moment


Hmm... same tbh. I am going to be the change I want to see in the world and *vote Herbe*, which actually just makes it 7-2-1 so I guess it's not really a change.

Herbe >= Ultracool >= anyone else of like... [MP7, RNP, ILS, maybe Blu] I guess >> Tofu/Emmy, maybe.

@Eifie I am starting a wagon. Shower me in praise.


----------



## Keldeo

Keldeo said:


> Herbe >= Ultracool >= anyone else of like... [MP7, RNP, ILS, maybe Blu] I guess >> Tofu/Emmy, maybe.


...This is like super cryptic, sorry. This is a ranking of my willingness to vote out people today.


----------



## mewtini

i considered herbe when i was replying to your question, but i think i'd be more willing to try it out if i wasn't worried it'd go directly to EoD. then again i kind of just want another wagon right now. mmffff ...

his 1733 also makes me think he didn't set out to go after emmy/discredit her


Herbe said:


> I'm barely keeping up. But if emmy is telling the truth, do we need to continue copcovering? or is there a chance that there's more than one cop in the game?


but i also don't really know much about rolecops, and whether they're like _rarely_ seen as town or just not clearing
on iso: 
*on d1 -*
spends a while talking about tvtropes' effects on his game now (basically that he has to put in more effort to be townread here, since he pocketed everyone as endearing-mafia last game). in 726 says he'd go for a kokorico lynch (after keldeo asked the thread about their gut-lynches), says that the myuma lynch feels "lazy" and then votes for stryke 

*on d2 -*
kind of encourages the VM push, hypocop clears butterfree, shows interest in rari's alien!VM theory in 1489. claims as rolecop upon butterfree/rari soliciting cop counterclaims, asks butterfree if her fishing brother is alive/if she has insight into the double nightkill (i could read this as having a wolfy motive), suggests that healing roles coinflip between him and emmy. in 1765 says that he doesn't know if trusting emmy is "mechanically safe" because rolecop + cop as town feels OP, says that emmy's clears are fakeable


----------



## mewtini

mewtini said:


> kind of encourages the VM push


on kyeugh, sorry

on reread i am maybe not vibing on herbe anymore, provided that rolecop really does veer mafia in alignment
huff. i don't really want to go to sleep while still on the majority side of a 7/2 split tbh. *herbe*


----------



## Keldeo

Keldeo said:


> Keldeo said:
> 
> 
> 
> Herbe >= Ultracool >= anyone else of like... [MP7, RNP, ILS, maybe Blu] I guess >> Tofu/Emmy, maybe.
> 
> 
> 
> ...This is like super cryptic, sorry. This is a ranking of my willingness to vote out people today.
Click to expand...

Oh, oops, I missed Mist. They should also be in that bracketed group, except maybe not because I don't want to vote them out the day they subbed in.

I kind of see what you were saying about Superjolt's EOD1, mewtini. It seems he asked a lot of people about what he should look at / said he would look into things, but never really gave thoughts, even though it seemed like he had time. I know he wasn't caught up, but I guess I'd expect more engagement or something?


----------



## mewtini

why is emmy in your list?


----------



## Keldeo

Oh, Tofu/Emmy are just there as the current wagons that I very much do not want to vote for. (counting Emmy as technically a wagon since I think RNP's vote is still on her)

I would say rolecops are just not clearing - they're not like, actively mafia-indicative imo, or if they are it's just barely. This is me speaking from a broader view, I'm not super knowledgable about the old TCoDf meta, which seems to be where Jack was coming from with this setup given the fishing brothers.

Honestly, what I should be doing if I'm channeling Eifie is either hard defending Mr. Ultracool or hard going after him, and I bet Eifie would do the former because of the wagon formation, but I feel like being Keldeo and hedging on him.


----------



## mewtini

fwiw me moving votes is also partly inspired by the fact that i don't think VM is lying about old tcodf meta


----------



## mewtini

where rolecops seem to slightly at least indicate mafia ... ?
i think i'm maybe also reading a lot into his fishing brothers question tbh.


----------



## mewtini

mewtini said:


> his


um, herbe's


----------



## Trebek

urrrrrgh, idk how i feel about herbe voting. i mean obviously part of it is the fact that im not scumreading him quite as much as the two of you are - and its also probably me underestimating the power of non-mech play. i just am not sure what herbe could do between now and EoD to sway peoples opinions one way or another. idk, im sort of rambling, but i would want herbe to make one more check and make a decision based off of that

this is most likely also just me being much more used to the idea of town aligned rolecops being commonplace


----------



## Keldeo

mewtini said:


> where rolecops seem to slightly at least indicate mafia ... ?
> i think i'm maybe also reading a lot into his fishing brothers question tbh.


You're talking about his question to Butterfree about whether the extra n1 kill was a result of the fishing brothers, right? I guess I could see it as role fishing since a "yes" answer would indicate that exactly Seshas had been the other one - but eh, I think it could be genuine. It doesn't move the needle a lot for me.


----------



## mewtini

i also just kind of don't want to be on ultracool overnight tbh.


----------



## mewtini

Keldeo said:


> I guess I could see it as role fishing since a "yes" answer would indicate that exactly Seshas had been the other one


er, or mawile, right

yeah that's fair. it's not WHY i'm voting him, i think it's just one of the things standing out to me (where the main thing is his interaction with emmy)


----------



## Keldeo

Trebek said:


> urrrrrgh, idk how i feel about herbe voting. i mean obviously part of it is the fact that im not scumreading him quite as much as the two of you are - and its also probably me underestimating the power of non-mech play. i just am not sure what herbe could do between now and EoD to sway peoples opinions one way or another. idk, im sort of rambling, but *i would want herbe to make one more check and make a decision based off of that*
> 
> this is most likely also just me being much more used to the idea of town aligned rolecops being commonplace


Can you talk about how you would make this decision? I don't really think he's lying about his role no matter what.

Also, what I would like Herbe to do is react :O Maybe he has a perfectly fine explanation for that heal flip post I found weird.


----------



## mewtini

Keldeo said:


> role fishing


ha ha


----------



## Keldeo

mewtini said:


> Keldeo said:
> 
> 
> 
> I guess I could see it as role fishing since a "yes" answer would indicate that exactly Seshas had been the other one
> 
> 
> 
> er, or mawile, right
> 
> yeah that's fair. it's not WHY i'm voting him, i think it's just one of the things standing out to me (where the main thing is his interaction with emmy)
Click to expand...

 I'm probably just misunderstanding the role, but wouldn't Mawile being the other bro mean that Butterfree would have to kill someone that night?


----------



## mewtini

oh sorry, i missed that part. thought it was just a oneshot vig after the fishing bro dies


----------



## mewtini

ok now that i think about what would have actually had to have happened, my point is insignificant, whoops :p i was theorizing about like, mafia trying to block a vigkill, because i kept thinking that a fishing bro pair would have 2 kills. not 1 like it actually is


----------



## Trebek

Keldeo said:


> Trebek said:
> 
> 
> 
> urrrrrgh, idk how i feel about herbe voting. i mean obviously part of it is the fact that im not scumreading him quite as much as the two of you are - and its also probably me underestimating the power of non-mech play. i just am not sure what herbe could do between now and EoD to sway peoples opinions one way or another. idk, im sort of rambling, but *i would want herbe to make one more check and make a decision based off of that*
> 
> this is most likely also just me being much more used to the idea of town aligned rolecops being commonplace
> 
> 
> 
> Can you talk about how you would make this decision? I don't really think he's lying about his role no matter what.
> 
> Also, what I would like Herbe to do is react :O Maybe he has a perfectly fine explanation for that heal flip post I found weird.
Click to expand...

tbh, this is why i shouldnt post while tired. i was lowkey forgetting about the fact that him being scum doesnt show up in any mechanical tells, so my previous thoughts about giving him another check are sorta moot lmao. outside of maybe having emmy check him? (which we could theoretically do just since i really dont think the two of them are w/w)

this brings something up that i hadnt thought about earlier. If herbe is mafia and emmy is town, then he would have no reason to believe that she isnt a cop, which then would beg the question: why would he claim in the face of a potential cop when he himself admitted that people could read into it as a scummy claim? idk, something to think about


----------



## mewtini

Trebek said:


> If herbe is mafia and emmy is town, then he would have no reason to believe that she isnt a cop, which then would beg the question: why would he claim in the face of a potential cop when he himself admitted that people could read into it as a scummy claim?


this is kinda what keldeo and i were talking about. it would be to discredit her somehow (he did shade her a bit, as i talked about)


----------



## mewtini

but the slight flimsiness of that is what makes me go Hmm


----------



## mewtini

my thought process is pretty much that if ultracool is mafia, then something went really sideways for the wolfteam, and i want more VM thoughts about herbe i think

i am comforted only by the knowledge that there are 12/13 people outside of my towncore and that like half of them are scum


----------



## Trebek

mewtini said:


> Trebek said:
> 
> 
> 
> If herbe is mafia and emmy is town, then he would have no reason to believe that she isnt a cop, which then would beg the question: why would he claim in the face of a potential cop when he himself admitted that people could read into it as a scummy claim?
> 
> 
> 
> this is kinda what keldeo and i were talking about. it would be to discredit her somehow (he did shade her a bit, as i talked about)
Click to expand...

orgh, apparently i didnt understand your interaction as much as i originally thought, lmao. still sorta Hmm tho


----------



## mewtini

yeah, it's Hmm because it would be predicated upon a rolecop trying to overpower an actual cop which is kind of a mountainous battle imo
i don't think i'll stay on herbe but i want some actually competing wagon action


----------



## mewtini

mewtini said:


> i don't think i'll stay on herbe but i want some actually competing wagon action


and i don't want to vote for tofu atm tbh


----------



## mewtini

Keldeo said:


> An 8-2 wagon is just like... I really don't know how often that actually ends up flipping mafia, lol. I agree with you that I don't know why his partners are letting this happen if they can help it - could just be that the thread momentum is just against them or something?


also like. since there's at least one wolf amongst the super-active posters. i kind of doubt that there's no one with the credibility to at least say _something_ to slow the wagon, idk


----------



## Keldeo

Another EOD1 thought: koko consistently strongly defending myuma's time-last-seen read, including through EOD, seems okay for em given myuma was town. I kind of don't understand eir reads today and e's been a bit more absent, but eh, good enough I guess?

I keep feeling worse about Trebek when he's not here, and I see what the read on his EOD1 as kind of disengaged, but then I talk to him and he feels, like, fair enough lol. Reading some weirdness / possible partner-ness into his desire to not vote Herbe here for reasons that mewtini and I were just talking through, but that's maybe kind of premature.

*You thought this would be a top tier, but it's me,* Keldeo
*Indigo Emmy and the Night Zero* (new new band name): Emmy, mewtini
*Townreads:* Butterfree, rari_teh, Tofu, VM
*kyeugh:* kyeugh
*Not in the above or below tier:* kokorico, Trebek, Bluwiikoon
*Bottom tier, vaguely ordered but not really:* MP7 (should probably be in the above tier because I'm not actually ~that~ willing to vote him out, on reflection), RNP, ILS, Ultracool, Mist, Herbe

Because the bottom tier is exactly six people, I'm probably placing some people too high... but I don't really feel like moving anyone right now, so I'm not really sure where that would be.


----------



## Trebek

yeah, i think whats holding me back is just the knowledge that if i was in v!herbe's position and the wagon went to him rn i would have zero idea what to do / just sorta flounder and get lynched

but, to quote hamilton, i realized three fundamental truths at the exact same time:
i'm not herbe
i dont like uneven wagons
i like science

... *herbe *hehe


----------



## Keldeo

Trebek said:


> i'm not herbe
> i dont like uneven wagons
> i like science


I think I missed this part of Hamilton.


----------



## mewtini

Keldeo said:


> If it helps for context, Butterfree, qva, Mist, and RNP have seen my mafia game fairly recently, and MP7 very recently, and I snowed at least Butterfree and MP7 fairly well.


@M Plus 7 i am curious to hear what you think of keldeo's posting whenever you return. quote very related



Keldeo said:


> koko consistently strongly defending myuma's time-last-seen read, including through EOD, seems okay for em given myuma was town


yeah, this is also why i've moved koko into my townlean pile


----------



## Trebek

Keldeo said:


> Trebek said:
> 
> 
> 
> i'm not herbe
> i dont like uneven wagons
> i like science
> 
> 
> 
> I think I missed this part of Hamilton.
Click to expand...

Director's cut


----------



## mewtini

is the directors cut of a broadway musical just the off-bway version


----------



## Trebek

depends on which one you like more


----------



## mewtini

anyway i’m going to sleep fr now. scared to watch the thread explode when i wake up


----------



## Keldeo

btw kyeugh: kyeugh means she's kyeugh... I was gonna ISO her but didn't get a chance to, so I'm stuck at thinking she was towny early on and haven't really looked back. Had the random thought that how she pushed for the wagons to shift around EOD1 is weird if Mr. Ultracool actually is mafia, but it's kind of a shallow thought / I'm not in love with it.

i believe this is the votecount:

Ultracool (5): VM, tofu, rari, herbe, skylar
Herbe (3): keldeo, mewtini, trebek
Tofu (2): emmy, blu
Emmy (1): rnp
Blu (1): ILS

I am going to sleep too, will be back before the deadline!


----------



## Trebek

i guess i sleep too, now that friends are gone :(


----------



## Keldeo

Kept from sleep by the chilling scenarios of VM/Tofu or Herbe/Butterfree being mafia partners. eek. 

Also I wanted to be clear about stuff like the codes and link reads - I have strong opinions about what should be “acceptable” or “allowed” or “within the game” in mafia, but they are just my opinions tbh! You all do you.


----------



## Bluwiikoon

Guys I just don't want Emmy to be a potential mafia target during the Night :( Because she's the alien


----------



## Bluwiikoon

*Unvote* for now because we seem to be done with the tofu science?  And again, not really invested in that wagon at the moment


----------



## kyeugh

rari_teh said:


> what makes you shortlist blu tbh? while he did undergo some Read Decay® for me, I still don’t see him as a probable maf…?


 i’m not really shortlisting him as probable maf; that list contains people i don’t actively believe are _likely_ to be town, so it includes null reads too. i think herbe can go there too for now.


mewtini said:


> something about his alien posting (not the theory existing itself, but the way in which he did it) does not sit right with me because, if i read it with w!blu in mind, it's a way to incite panic and funnel it into getting a cop lynched (especially when he didn't tinfoil it)


 huh? isn’t suggesting someone is alien like the opposite of trying to get them lynched?


Keldeo said:


> Hmm... this is a weird wagon formation. I did not realize it was that many on Ultracool, with only Butterfree and semi-mewtini that I can remember defending him.


 this has me feeling really bad tbh. i think this makes me not want to vote him, like it keeps happening and the mafia keeps totally letting it.


Keldeo said:


> Herbe >= Ultracool >= anyone else of like... [MP7, RNP, ILS, maybe Blu] I guess >> Tofu/Emmy, maybe.


 why is ultracool above mp7/rnp/ils/blu here?

i’m kind of considering a vote between ils/rnp right now.


----------



## kyeugh

@Keldeo in re my fear of you being a wolf: without rereading that eod, i guess i’m kind of thinking the myuma thing was a bit odd. i think i don’t really understand why you ultimately went to stryke, and letting me make that myuma post/pulling a bunch of people into the wagon without really commenting on it even though it was initially your scumlean seems kind of weird.

definitely not impossible that you did this as town, but i think you starting this wagon and then sort of kicking back and backing off pushing it too strongly once it looks like a townie is going to put in the work on it could come from scum too. again, this is without rereading, so i might be totally misremembering and maybe you did say some stuff etc, but this is my memory of it rn. 

i think your feelings about vm’s push on me poke a hole in this somewhat, but it still wouldn’t be implausible by any means that you do that as a wolf.

i feel good about your herbe vote though.


----------



## qenya

Keldeo said:


> re: posts on this page, @kyeugh @kokorico and also @Butterfree iirc - is there something specific I've done that you have an issue with, or is it more like, I've just not done enough for you to townread me and you're scared of my mafia game? If it's the latter, I guess that's fair (if a little frustrating lol) but if it's the former, I'd like to address it.


the latter I guess? when I said "PoE" I literally just meant that everyone else in that category (kyeugh, rari, mewtini, bluwiikoon, VM) has done one or more things to make me relatively convinced of their towniness, while you've been more sort of just resolutely plodding along

which is just your playstyle, last game as well as this one, which is why (as I said) I wouldn't be comfortable at all with lynching you based on it



rari_teh said:


> something terrifying just passed through my head
> what if rnp is the real cop


n0: green on stryke
d1: stryke flips green
n1: green on stryke
(concludes he must be insane)

---

re: herbe - totally spaced this yesterday but I once played in a game with a 3p rolecop. don't really want to explain their win condition in detail because I hope to use it in a setup of my own one day, but it was compatible with a town win. it's not that I think that's what's going on here, but my point is that umming and ahing about whether herbe's claim is alignment indicative _in and of itself_ is kind of a waste of time when it could literally be anything

what _is_ interesting though is that he decided to target butterfree, who yesterDay had not much of a in-thread presence so is a bit of an odd target (unlike mewtini who apparently was targeted n0 by absolutely fucking every town PR)

@Herbe could you talk a bit about your motivation for checking butterfree?


----------



## qenya

kyeugh said:


> @Keldeo in re my fear of you being a wolf: without rereading that eod, i guess i’m kind of thinking the myuma thing was a bit odd. i think i don’t really understand why you ultimately went to stryke


my understanding was that he switched to stryke because stryke claimed and myuma was offline and not going to. making stryke the more mechanically correct lynch


----------



## qenya

kokorico said:


> kyeugh said:
> 
> 
> 
> @Keldeo in re my fear of you being a wolf: without rereading that eod, i guess i’m kind of thinking the myuma thing was a bit odd. i think i don’t really understand why you ultimately went to stryke
> 
> 
> 
> my understanding was that he switched to stryke because stryke claimed and myuma was offline and not going to. making stryke the more mechanically correct lynch
Click to expand...

(several other people did the same thing iirc)


----------



## kyeugh

hmm. i think that still doesn’t really change my feelings because w!keldeo would know both were town anyway and i think he’d still have that thought as scum.


----------



## kyeugh

oh yeah the other big thing about keldeo is that i think there’s pretty much no way all the active players are town and i’m basically certain me/mewt/rari/bfree are, and feel pretty good about vm/tofu, so it’s making me sideye him a bit.


----------



## Butterfree

Keldeo said:


> I'm also here and catching up! It turns out "not playing mafia for a few hours" is an effective home remedy for mild headaches :p
> 
> re: posts on this page, @kyeugh @kokorico and also @Butterfree iirc - is there something specific I've done that you have an issue with, or is it more like, I've just not done enough for you to townread me and you're scared of my mafia game? If it's the latter, I guess that's fair (if a little frustrating lol) but if it's the former, I'd like to address it.


Catching up. I don't believe I made any mention of you on this page - you're still in my "you sound very town, but in the same sort of way you sound very town when you're mafia and hence I don't really trust you" category. Honestly I don't think I'm going to be able to attempt to sort you until later in the game when there's more information than your general in-thread behaviour, so I've kind of put you aside for the moment.


----------



## Vipera Magnifica

Herbethoughts...

Just thinking about how this was originally a 14 player set up, I have a very hard time believing there could be a role cop AND regular cop on the town side of things, especially in the meta that JackPK would be accustomed to playing

This would leave me to believe that either Emmy or Herbe must be mafia, and given the little breadcrumbs of foreshadowing that Butterfree pointed out, I’m more inclined to believe Emmy. There is that, and I just don't believe that a role cop in this game would likely be town-aligned.

There is the argument that he wouldn't make the claim as a mafia-aligned player, knowing that we'd immediately be suspicious of a role cop, but then again I'm sure that was going to be his excuse in the first place. It seems to me like the goal of mafia!Herbe claiming would be to cast doubt on Emmy and draw away the healers.

I also think that it's quite possible there is a mafia role cop among the scum team that is just feeding Herbe information, and Herbe was chosen to stick his neck out because his role is more expendable... remember that there are 2 vanilla mafia in this game. I don't really have any evidence to support this theory but if I were part of the mafia it's what I'd suggest doing.

While I still feel like Ultracool is mafia, I think there's a bit more evidence against *Herbe *at this point, and I'm okay with a wagon shift for science.


----------



## Novae

Keldeo said:


> Oh, oops, I missed Mist. They should also be in that bracketed group, except maybe not because I don't want to vote them out the day they subbed in.


do you want s7g1? because that's how you get s7g1

(context: I subbed into a scum slot at 8v2 that was about to get policy lynched for being inactive, then proceeded to endgame as scum)


----------



## Novae

I'm not fully convinced on Herbe being scum, I think a town rolecop makes sense in a setup that's primarily PRs


----------



## Butterfree

Keldeo said:


> Sorry, I don't understand your questions? What I'm saying is that Herbe could be a mafia role cop, where laying down breadcrumbs to Butterfree that he knew her role was fishing brother would demonstrate to her that he was indeed a role cop. So then (with Emmy being town in this world), after the call for counterclaims, he sees the opportunity to truthfully claim his role, while allowing him to cast doubt on the real town cop.
> 
> btw why is it called fishing brothers... is the implication that the guys who give out fishing rods in Pokemon are capable of killing


Story: the fishing brothers role, like the alien role, came from the Nordic International Mathematical Olympiad teams, who first taught me to play mafia; I didn’t make up any of this, it’s all them

Where I’m at I’m intrigued by Keldeo’s thoughts on Herbe, hmmm.


----------



## Butterfree

Keldeo said:


> Also just my 2c, I've never seen alien assistant before, and in a game starting with only 10 people who couldn't win with mafia, it does seem weird for there to be two third parties there. Like, there'd be only 8 townies of 14.
> 
> I do agree that the possibility popping up for Trebek is mildly solve-y seeming.


Alien assistant, on the other hand, was a role that I made up wholesale for TV Tropes Mafia 1.0. I have not seen it in any other game. It’s not impossible that Jack could have used it here, I guess, but to be clear, my defense of Bluwii’s alien speculation is absolutely not based on him being alien assistant.


----------



## mewtini

kyeugh said:


> huh? isn’t suggesting someone is alien like the opposite of trying to get them lynched?


only if they were activated, right
but tbh i think i figured something out and i’m going to let it go for now heh


----------



## mewtini

Mist1422 said:


> I'm not fully convinced on Herbe being scum, I think a town rolecop makes sense in a setup that's primarily PRs


this is also my big reservation. that the game was literally set up to be 100% power roles if it only hit minimum capacity


----------



## mewtini

Spoiler: vote history



VM/kyeugh 1270
kyeugh/ultracool 1299
VM/ultracool 1326
mewtini/ultracool 1327
mewtini/unvote 1340
mewtini/kyeugh 1357
mewtini/unvote 1359
rnp/kyeugh 1453
mewtini/emmy 1472
trebek/emmy 1473
rari/emmy 1482
herbe/emmy 1489
keldeo/ultracool 1567
*tofu/ultracool 1604*
emmy/ultracool 1612
ultracool/emmy 1614
herbe/unvote 1653
blu/emmy 1717
*rari/ultracool 1730*
kyeugh/tofu 1732
*emmy/tofu 1634*
trebek/ultracool 1736
blu/tofu 1747
mewtini/tofu 1797
trebek/tofu 1876
ultracool/unvote 1884
*herbe/ultracool 1886
rnp/emmy 1926*
trebek/ultracool 1927
*kyeugh/ultracool 1939*
mewtini/ultracool 1941
*ils/blu 1996
keldeo/herbe 2056
mewtini/herbe 2059
trebek/herbe 2084*
blu/unvote 2095
*VM/herbe 2104*


herbe (4): keldeo, mewt, trebek, vm
ultracool (4): tofu, rari, herbe, skylar
tofu (1): emmy
blu (1): ils


----------



## Vipera Magnifica

seems to me if Jack wanted to throw in some extra town inforoles he'd add in a tracker or watcher

town cop and town role cop together in the 14-player setup would be pretty OP in favor of town


----------



## mewtini

yeah i think i agree tbh.


Vipera Magnifica said:


> There is the argument that he wouldn't make the claim as a mafia-aligned player, knowing that we'd immediately be suspicious of a role cop, but then again I'm sure that was going to be his excuse in the first place. It seems to me like the goal of mafia!Herbe claiming would be to cast doubt on Emmy and draw away the healers.


vm phrasing it like this makes me a bit less hedgey about voting herbe tbh and thinking about it in a 14-player setup is a bit much even with a mafia godfather/some wolf that inspects green
i feel kind of bad though because whenever herbe reappears there's like, p much nothing he'll be able to do to change his wagon's mind i feel like, based on this argument lol


----------



## Vipera Magnifica

crapcrapcrap

I just discovered JackPK actually has used a town rolecop before.

Now I'm no longer sure... *unvote*


----------



## mewtini

unsure what to make of that game's setup looking kind of mafia-skewed though? ugh


----------



## mewtini

mewtini said:


> unsure what to make of that game's setup looking kind of mafia-skewed though? ugh


which would make it a bit different to have a cop + rcop both on town there. the town/scum ratio was super high and mafia still won
the coinflip heal comment is still weird when the healers aren't known and when rcop is weaker than alignment cop. also the below quote seems to imply that, because having rcop + cop is OP, there can be only one of those on the town side. and like. it sure as hell isn't the rcop.



Herbe said:


> Idk if trusting emmy is the mechanically safe option because a rolecop and a cop in the same game gives me pause. like, what the hell does the mafia have to balance out this situation? something scary I think.


----------



## mewtini

mewtini said:


> the town/scum ratio was super high


sorry, *scum/town ratio was high and mafia still won with the double cops on town's side


----------



## Vipera Magnifica

Actually even if one of my main assumptions for suspecting Herbe turned out to be wrong, it doesn't mean that the other reasons for suspecting him are wrong as well. Back on the *Herbe *wagon I go.



mewtini said:


> mewtini said:
> 
> 
> 
> the town/scum ratio was super high
> 
> 
> 
> sorry, *scum/town ratio was high and mafia still won with the double cops on town's side
Click to expand...

Double cops? I see only one rcop


----------



## mewtini

by double i meant rcop + cop, sorry


----------



## mewtini

oh wait. is it only one rcop.  i misread, my bad


----------



## mewtini

i was just thinking wtf that is so weird ajldghfjhldf


----------



## Vipera Magnifica

there wasn't a regular cop in that game


----------



## Vipera Magnifica

ah yeah, ninja'd


----------



## mewtini

yeah, sorry about that!
anyway i think the other stuff, like what i just mentioned in 2116, still stands regardless


----------



## Vipera Magnifica

you know in the (less than likely) event that Herbe is lynched and flips town, at least then we can reasonably assume Emmy is mafia


----------



## mewtini

at least then we wouldn't have an outed cop on d2 tbh.

plot twist there's only a town rolecop in this game and we all get played


----------



## Trebek

just woke up, will reread the stuff i missed a few times to make sure it sinks in, but so far it’s making me more confident in the herbe train than i was last night. 


Butterfree said:


> Keldeo said:
> 
> 
> 
> Also just my 2c, I've never seen alien assistant before, and in a game starting with only 10 people who couldn't win with mafia, it does seem weird for there to be two third parties there. Like, there'd be only 8 townies of 14.
> 
> I do agree that the possibility popping up for Trebek is mildly solve-y seeming.
> 
> 
> 
> Alien assistant, on the other hand, was a role that I made up wholesale for TV Tropes Mafia 1.0. I have not seen it in any other game. It’s not impossible that Jack could have used it here, I guess, but to be clear, my defense of Bluwii’s alien speculation is absolutely not based on him being alien assistant.
Click to expand...

well. now i feel silly :p


----------



## rari_teh

mewtini said:


> i think we need to be wary of actually suspecting him just because "his play could be NAI" and because we're scared of his wolf game, especially when consensus has been that he's playing exactly as he did in tvtropes. on my gut/due to some subtleties of his tone i feel like he's probably just town and i think he could be doing far less in terms of giving insight, etc, and still be just as towny-looking
> 
> like has he actually done anything that makes him look worse than others, aside from play a game that could hypothetically be similar to a playstyle that apparently none of us know about? idk. i don't think i ever vote keldeo today and i don't really want him to be the first step in a process of elimination/PoE when he's immensely useful as town and, in particular, when i don't actually scumread him above other people yet


my sincere thoughts are that, bar something mad happening, we should just let keldeo be for the time being and only deeply scrutinize him if we get to a point where everybody else is improbable to be mafia
i reckon this kend of strategy may be risky, but it’s the best i could come up with tbh



Keldeo said:


> I kind of see what you were saying about Superjolt's EOD1, mewtini. It seems he asked a lot of people about what he should look at / said he would look into things, but never really gave thoughts, even though it seemed like he had time. I know he wasn't caught up, but I guess I'd expect more engagement or something?


methinks that superjolt leaving the game due to meatspace requirements more than explains his lack of segue on eod

coming soon, in this very thread, my herbe longpost


----------



## mewtini

that's where i am on keldeo as well, yeah

also yeah i think the superjolt slot just has to get reevaluated as mist starts talking more tbh


----------



## Novae

meatspace?


----------



## mewtini

Mist1422 said:


> meatspace?


in real life


----------



## Novae

mewtini said:


> Mist1422 said:
> 
> 
> 
> meatspace?
> 
> 
> 
> in real life
Click to expand...

i guessed but now I would like to know where that concept comes from


----------



## rari_teh

wrt herbe i really don’t think that wolf!he would claim at that point? i feel like this entire wagon is too flimsy to be secure and it just exists because ultracool having 8 votes on him at the same time and nobody really caring screams town
cop or not, emmy is most likely town because nobody counterclaimed skimbleshanks – if fakeclaimed this would only be possible if a) real skimbleshanks doesn’t want to counterclaim for some obscure reason or b) mawile, seshas or myuma is real skimbleshanks (which has a relatively low chance of 15%)

which brings us to this brilliant idea that we somehow let die


Trebek said:


> tbh, this is why i shouldnt post while tired. i was lowkey forgetting about the fact that him being scum doesnt show up in any mechanical tells, so my previous thoughts about giving him another check are sorta moot lmao. outside of maybe having emmy check him? (which we could theoretically do just since i really dont think the two of them are w/w)


imho our best solution here would be let herbe live and have @IndigoEmmy and @Herbe check each other toNight. if they’re v/v, which i think is likely, it’ll check out and both will be mechcleared forever more. if something doesn’t check out, herbe is likely to be the wolf and our best lynch candidate for toMorrow.

that being said, the already cited fact that the ultracool wagon grew to eight people without people noticing and nobody really came to his defense makes me worry that both wagons are v/v, which is highly troubling
i’m not hopping off coolwagon as of yet because herbe pings more town to me than ultracool, but i’m def worried and would love to see another wagon


----------



## rari_teh

Mist1422 said:


> mewtini said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mist1422 said:
> 
> 
> 
> meatspace?
> 
> 
> 
> in real life
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> i guessed but now I would like to know where that concept comes from
Click to expand...

’tis the natural artificial antithesis to cyberspace


----------



## rari_teh

rari_teh said:


> which has a relatively low chance of 15%


provided emmy fakeclaimed skimbleshanks, that is


----------



## mewtini

i think herbe is more likely to be mafia than mr. uc is, just by virtue of the ultracool wagon buildup honestly. and then the other stuff/shading as a bonus.
i might be confbiasing myself into this now that i've slept on it, but his claim feels less believable to me than emmy's does, and i think exactly one of them is scum, right? so we could heal emmy and hope that that checks out, but then we need another suspect and i don't want to lynch ultracool given The Wagon.


----------



## Novae

mewt can you walk me through exactly what made your herbe read change

because you believed them pretty strongly and thought they were town yesterday


----------



## Keldeo

Rari, can you explain more why you don’t feel Herbe would have claimed as mafia in that spot? What do you think Mr. Ultracool’s partners were doing re: that wagon if he was mafia?

Mist, where do you come down on Herbe and Ultracool yourself?


----------



## mewtini

Mist1422 said:


> mewt can you walk me through exactly what made your herbe read change


i thought his claim felt genuine enough on first read, and i didn't fully consider the fact that the initial setup was for 14 people/the ramifications of having a town rolecop + cop (specifically that i wasn't thinking about it in terms of 'is it emmy or is it herbe'). i didn't really put it together until talking through it with keldeo, not sure if you've seen that. my longposting from page 100ish was me going over yesterday's posts - including the roleclaims - after i'd only really skimmed them during the day, so my thoughts there are a lot closer to my actual thinking on deepread than what i'd said earlier while flitting in and out


mewtini said:


> i think i'm just not expressing myself very well atm
> 
> i'm saying that if herbe thought _all _cops needed to counterclaim, then claiming against cop!emmy wouldn't be shading her, it would just be doing what he thought was like, the correct play
> i don't think mafia needs to go out on a limb like this to discredit emmy when they can just nightkill her, so i don't see why herbe wouldn't just wait to claim later _unless_ he thought he was supposed to counterclaim





Keldeo said:


> Well, if she's town, they couldn't be sure of nightkilling her right now since there could be a doctor around, right? That, to me, provides the missing reasoning behind mafia Herbe's claim.





mewtini said:


> oh i'm a fool.


and then i realized that it wouldn't be literally pointless for w!herbe to try to discredit emmy, and i'm not sure i see a town agenda to "healers should decide between healing me or emmy" when there's not really a reason to just direct heals to the stronger cop. this also is reliant on me being pretty sure that emmy is cop by her breadcrumbing though, and that everything i complained about with respect to her playstyle earlier on is explained away by her claim


----------



## mewtini

so the way i see it emmy is always villa, and he shaded her quite a lot (and imo should have just not made that heal comment) if he's also villa
hearing that rolecop isn't role-indicative gave me pause also and even though i think the claim was made at a normal enough time if we say that herbe assumed that a cop ctrclaim necessitated rolecop, the rest of it still is kinda meh


----------



## mewtini

i'll be kinda like :| if herbe flips town, but this case feels better to me than the other wagons at present


----------



## mewtini

mewtini said:


> when there's not really a reason to *not* just direct heals to the stronger cop


dropped a word


----------



## JackPK

Reminder: The day phase will end in *2 hours*.

*Active votes*
Tofu votes Mr. Ultracool (#1604)
rari_teh votes Mr. Ultracool (#1730)
IndigoEmmy votes Tofu (#1734)
Herbe votes Mr. Ultracool (#1886)
RedneckPhoenix votes IndigoEmmy (#1926)
kyeugh votes Mr. Ultracool (#1939)
I liek Squirtles votes Bluwiikoon (#1996)
Keldeo votes Herbe (#2056)
mewtini votes Herbe (#2059)
Trebek votes Herbe (#2084)
Vipera Magnifica votes Herbe (#2118)



Spoiler: Full vote history



Active votes bolded. Invalid votes stricken through.

Vipera Magnifica votes kyeugh (#1270)
kyeugh votes Mr. Ultracool (#1299)
Vipera Magnifica votes Mr. Ultracool (#1326)
mewtini votes Mr. Ultracool (#1327)
mewtini unvotes (#1340)
mewtini votes kyeugh (#1357)
mewtini unvotes (#1359)
RedneckPhoenix votes kyeugh (#1453)
mewtini votes IndigoEmmy (#1472)
Trebek votes IndigoEmmy (#1473)
rari_teh votes IndigoEmmy (#1482)
Herbe votes IndigoEmmy (#1489)
Keldeo votes Mr. Ultracool (#1567)
*Tofu votes Mr. Ultracool (#1604)*
IndigoEmmy votes Mr. Ultracool (#1612)
Mr. Ultracool votes IndigoEmmy (#1613)
Herbe unvotes (#1653)
Bluwiikoon votes IndigoEmmy (#1717)
*rari_teh votes Mr. Ultracool (#1730)*
kyeugh votes Tofu (#1732)
*IndigoEmmy votes Tofu (#1734)*
Trebek votes Mr. Ultracool (#1736)
Bluwiikoon votes Tofu (#1747)
mewtini votes Tofu (#1797)
Trebek votes Tofu (#1876)
Mr. Ultracool unvotes (#1884)
*Herbe votes Mr. Ultracool (#1886)
RedneckPhoenix votes IndigoEmmy (#1926)*
Trebek votes Mr. Ultracool (#1927)
*kyeugh votes Mr. Ultracool (#1939)*
mewtini votes Mr. Ultracool (#1941)
*I liek Squirtles votes Bluwiikoon (#1996)
Keldeo votes Herbe (#2056)
mewtini votes Herbe (#2059)
Trebek votes Herbe (#2084)*
Bluwiikoon unvotes (#2095)
Vipera Magnifica votes Herbe (#2104)
Vipera Magnifica unvotes (#2114)
*Vipera Magnifica votes Herbe (#2118)*


----------



## Keldeo

Yeah idk after sleeping I think if Blu were being malicious with the alien thing, i.e. trying to spin the alien thing into an Emmy miskill, he’d be trying harder because alien being voted out while unactivated makes the most sense. Also I think I realized something about it.



kyeugh said:


> Keldeo said:
> 
> 
> 
> Herbe >= Ultracool >= anyone else of like... [MP7, RNP, ILS, maybe Blu] I guess >> Tofu/Emmy, maybe.
> 
> 
> 
> why is ultracool above mp7/rnp/ils/blu here?
> 
> i’m kind of considering a vote between ils/rnp right now.
Click to expand...

I guess just because like, he hasn’t really been here and there are still reasons I’m suspicious. I agree that the wagon formation is pretty meh and last time it was like that in a game I was in I probably would have benefited from just clearing the person, but like, I just can’t bring myself to clear him.  

Tell me more about ILS/RNP? I thought RNP’s posting about Emmy read as fairly sincere.


kyeugh said:


> @Keldeo in re my fear of you being a wolf: without rereading that eod, i guess i’m kind of thinking the myuma thing was a bit odd. i think i don’t really understand why you ultimately went to stryke, and letting me make that myuma post/pulling a bunch of people into the wagon without really commenting on it even though it was initially your scumlean seems kind of weird.
> 
> definitely not impossible that you did this as town, but i think you starting this wagon and then sort of kicking back and backing off pushing it too strongly once it looks like a townie is going to put in the work on it could come from scum too. again, this is without rereading, so i might be totally misremembering and maybe you did say some stuff etc, but this is my memory of it rn.
> 
> i think your feelings about vm’s push on me poke a hole in this somewhat, but it still wouldn’t be implausible by any means that you do that as a wolf.
> 
> i feel good about your herbe vote though.


Oh, I was on my phone and you were doing a fine job explaining it so I didn’t feel the need to go into depth about my own thoughts haha. Also I swapped onto Stryke at the end because imo it’s better to vote out someone who has claimed rather than someone who hasn’t, even if you’re scumreading the latter more, and especially when that claim is VT (because then the other person has a nonzero chance of being some power role)


----------



## rari_teh

Keldeo said:


> Rari, can you explain more why you don’t feel Herbe would have claimed as mafia in that spot? What do you think Mr. Ultracool’s partners were doing re: that wagon if he was mafia?


from what the more experienced players said, rolecop is a traditionally mafia role (despite not being impossible to be town), so I guess that any idea of counterclaiming a cop with a rolecop would make the rolecop look bad
and I get the reasoning that w!herbe could do that in a flimsy attempt of directing the doctor’s heal towards him, but that proposition pinged me as naïve more than anything, and naïve is definitely not the best descriptor to herbe’s wolfgame if tvt is to be believed

he could be wolfing really well and playing 4D chess with me and my gut, but I think it’s too risky to lynch a claimed, possibly town-aligned rolecop that won’t even be here to fend for himself on eod iirc over a lurker while there are ways to mech-confirm his alignment by toMorrow

wrt ultracool’s mafia partners, no idea. that’s part of why i think that this all is a v/v shitfest, but i’d rather lynch the unclaimed


----------



## rari_teh

what i mean is, i really don't want to vote ultracool bc he’s likely v, but i really _really_ don’t want to lynch herbe bc he’s a likely-v PR


----------



## mewtini

rari_teh said:


> and I get the reasoning that w!herbe could do that in a flimsy attempt of directing the doctor’s heal towards him, but that proposition pinged me as naïve more than anything, and naïve is definitely not the best descriptor to herbe’s wolfgame if tvt is to be believed


i kinda thought that wolf herbe thrived off of seeming naive tbh?


----------



## Tangrowth

OMG I'm so sorry, things have been whatever, at least I'm here now.


----------



## Novae

idk though like

what use is a mafia rolecop in a setup where every town is a PR


----------



## Tangrowth

Oh hey Mist!


----------



## Keldeo

Hmm, you raise a good point about the possibility of mechanical confirmation, Rari.

I don’t agree with the people saying Herbe and Emmy has to be one mafia and one town, because I feel like both being town is possible as a design decision if the mafia has like, multiple roles that would fool one, like a godfather or some way to tamper with inspections. So I guess I’m still wary about that too.


----------



## Novae

hey m+!


----------



## Keldeo

Hey MP!


Mist1422 said:


> idk though like
> 
> what use is a mafia rolecop in a setup where every town is a PR


To tell which people are strong PRs


----------



## Tangrowth

going to see my replies and pings quickly and also down with realtiming


----------



## rari_teh

Keldeo said:


> I thought RNP’s posting about Emmy read as fairly sincere.


not only that, but mafia!rnp would have nothing to gain by hardclaiming not-cop when i suspected he might be the real cop



mewtini said:


> i kinda thought that wolf herbe thrived off of seeming naive tbh?


seeming naïve, yes. being naïve, def no


----------



## mewtini

Keldeo said:


> I don’t agree with the people saying Herbe and Emmy has to be one mafia and one town


to be clear i don't say this purely because of game design theorizing, i'm just latching onto the heal comment



rari_teh said:


> he could be wolfing really well and playing 4D chess with me and my gut, but I think it’s too risky to lynch a claimed, possibly town-aligned rolecop that won’t even be here to fend for himself on eod iirc over a lurker while there are ways to mech-confirm his alignment by toMorrow


yeah this is fair tbh. i just am like ... who else ...


----------



## Keldeo

Keldeo said:


> Hmm, you raise a good point about the possibility of mechanical confirmation, Rari.
> 
> I don’t agree with the people saying Herbe and Emmy has to be one mafia and one town, because I feel like both being town is possible as a design decision if the mafia has like, multiple roles that would fool one, like a godfather or some way to tamper with inspections. So I guess I’m still wary about that too.


Like, if they’re both town or even if Emmy is town and Herbe is mafia, maybe mafia has a roleblocker or something and just prevents Emmy from getting that result, or something... Maybe I’m getting too into the weeds here.


----------



## mewtini

agree that rnp sounded fine



rari_teh said:


> seeming naïve, yes. being naïve, def no


yeah, i don't really know if i'm following why this would change how you'd read the heal remark though?


----------



## Butterfree

So, the way I see the Herbe situation is: Indigo’s cop claim puts the mafia in trouble: there is probably at least one doctor in the game, no danger of a healer clash so zero reason doctors wouldn’t heal Indigo, so the mafia is highly unlikely to be able to actually nightkill her. The mafia has two ways out: somehow get Emmy lynched despite the claim, or divert healers onto someone else. And... conveniently, suddenly Herbe appears, attempting both those things?

One could wonder why he didn’t just counterclaim regular cop - but by claiming rolecop instead, he can give actual provable rolecop results, making himself look more credible than Indigo, and also when Indigo flips town that doesn’t necessarily implicate him.

It all just. Fits really well? I’m wary that I’m narrative-building but it seems strikingly in line with the mafia’s agendain that precise situation.


----------



## Tangrowth

Keldeo said:


> Oh yeah starting to look at EOD1 reminded me -
> 
> @M Plus 7 Hope you can make it in for EOD tbh! Cliffs notes on the last however many pages:
> - IndigoEmmy fakeclaimed a weird role and then claimed Skimbleshanks, cop with n0 mewtini and n1 Seshas
> - Herbe claimed Victoria, role cop with n0 mewtini and n1 Butterfree as "fishing brother", which she confirmed (one of a pair of vengefuls who gets a revenge kill when the other person dies)
> - Mr. Ultracool is the main wagon right now with no real counterwagon
> - there's an ISO button now!
> 
> (Am I giving MP7 cliffs because I want him to be town and get engaged? Yes. Will I probably keep giving him another day here just because I invited him and want him to be town? Yes. Do I actually think he's town... uh... pending until he does deeper analysis. Liked the agendalessness in his EOD1, his tone, and his questions well enough. I think he's accurate in saying that he seems like he's replacing in for himself every time he enters thread, and that's sort of getting in the way of me seeing something really unfakeable.)


Thank you so much for this! I'll uhh see what to think about all of that, haha. 

Also, ISO button?!!? It's like Christmas morning.


----------



## mewtini

yeah bfree just pretty much said what i was thinking, except better than how i was phrasing it. :')


----------



## rari_teh

mewtini said:


> rari_teh said:
> 
> 
> 
> he could be wolfing really well and playing 4D chess with me and my gut, but I think it’s too risky to lynch a claimed, possibly town-aligned rolecop that won’t even be here to fend for himself on eod iirc over a lurker while there are ways to mech-confirm his alignment by toMorrow
> 
> 
> 
> yeah this is fair tbh. i just am like ... who else ...
Click to expand...

my woes exactly
i don’t like to have my vote parked on ultracool, but the competing wagon leaves me no choice


----------



## Butterfree

Fuck it, I’m feeling bold (and am not 100% sure how much more time I’ll have to read before EoD), let’s vote *Herbe*.


----------



## Tangrowth

mewtini said:


> Keldeo said:
> 
> 
> 
> If it helps for context, Butterfree, qva, Mist, and RNP have seen my mafia game fairly recently, and MP7 very recently, and I snowed at least Butterfree and MP7 fairly well.
> 
> 
> 
> @M Plus 7 i am curious to hear what you think of keldeo's posting whenever you return. quote very related
> 
> 
> 
> Keldeo said:
> 
> 
> 
> koko consistently strongly defending myuma's time-last-seen read, including through EOD, seems okay for em given myuma was town
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> yeah, this is also why i've moved koko into my townlean pile
Click to expand...

Well, the statement is certainly true given I was in that game Keldeo mentioned which just finished, but I was on the town side there unfortunately. 

I would say my understanding of his meta is a bit different now than I thought previously, so I'll need to re-calibrate a bit. He was very... methodical in that game, for lack of a better term. I feel more energy and tone here, from what I recall. I'm not sure how much of that is AI versus being at MU versus here, but if anything based on what I remember of his posting here, if I had to make a super quick judgment, I actually feel *better* about him here now after that game ended. I'll need to ISO though. I promise I should have time to do that next phase. XD


----------



## rari_teh

mewtini said:


> yeah, i don't really know if i'm following why this would change how you'd read the heal remark though?


I’m saying that a rolecop appearing to counterclaim a cop and then suggesting to be healed instead right after is _too obvious to be mafia!herbe_
call it a wifom, but I’m drinking from the goblet on the other side tyvm


----------



## Keldeo

I am gonna quickly eat something and then I’ll be back.

@Bluwiikoon if you had to choose between the two main wagons (Ultracool and Herbe) (with a third option of starting a new wagon) what would you pick?


----------



## mewtini

herbe (5): keldeo, mewt, trebek, VM, bfree
ultracool (4): tofu, rari, herbe, kyeugh
tofu (1): emmy

i think


----------



## Tangrowth

Thanks mew. I had some townie vibes from Ultracool earlier but I think nothing of Herbe. ISO button away!

Seriously, I love whoever put this in.


----------



## Trebek

yeah, my gut wants to go for a night phase mech clear between emmy and herbe, but there are just so many ways that can go wrong (a mafia role blocker could negate emmys claim which would throw shade on herbe even if he’s town)
 and i also don’t want to not lynch someone


----------



## mewtini

M Plus 7 said:


> Thanks mew. I had some townie vibes from Ultracool earlier but I think nothing of Herbe. ISO button away!
> 
> Seriously, I love whoever put this in.


another thing is that ultracool's wagon grew to intense majority (8 votes on him, 2 on the next wagon) which makes me 
the herbethoughts have all come fairly recently, i've linked to a few posts on that/talked about it just now too ofc


----------



## Novae

mewtini said:


> herbe (5): keldeo, mewt, trebek, VM, bfree
> ultracool (4): tofu, rari, herbe, kyeugh
> tofu (1): emmy
> 
> i think


rnp is on emmy and ILS is on bluwii


----------



## Keldeo

Hm I guess the Herbe wagon also doesn’t have... that much resistance. Except I feel pretty good about everyone who’s popped on, and also it absolutely does have resistance from rari (though I think they’re town) and mist lol


----------



## mewtini

Trebek said:


> yeah, my gut wants to go for a night phase mech clear between emmy and herbe, but there are just so many ways that can go wrong (a mafia role blocker could negate emmys claim which would throw shade on herbe even if he’s town)
> and i also don’t want to not lynch someone


yeah fwiw i think emmy is getting roleblocked tonight no matter what :p unless another PR comes out


----------



## rari_teh

i’m calling that herbe is going to flip green and i’m going to dab all over the thread eifie style toMorrow


----------



## mewtini

assuming that there is a mafia roleblocker


----------



## mewtini

Keldeo said:


> Hm I guess the Herbe wagon also doesn’t have... that much resistance. Except I feel pretty good about everyone who’s popped on, and also it absolutely does have resistance from rari (though I think they’re town) and mist lol


yeah, i was just thinking that it seems to be ... rolling along. man. stress moment, continued


----------



## Keldeo

rari_teh said:


> i’m calling that herbe is going to flip green and i’m going to dab all over the thread eifie style toMorrow


If Herbe flips red I get to dab on the thread in return, deal?


----------



## Tangrowth

That doesn't sound too promising from a gamestate reads perspective... do people think that Ultracool or Herbe would be considered to be dead weight and bussed or not?


----------



## mewtini

i feel better about at least one of my nulls (mist) resisting though than everyone piling onto ultracool


----------



## Butterfree

M Plus 7 said:


> Thanks mew. I had some townie vibes from Ultracool earlier but I think nothing of Herbe. ISO button away!
> 
> Seriously, I love whoever put this in.


You’re welcome.


----------



## mewtini

M Plus 7 said:


> That doesn't sound too promising from a gamestate reads perspective... do people think that Ultracool or Herbe would be considered to be dead weight and bussed or not?


ultracool maybe but (imo) he wouldn't be hard to at least nominally defend
herbe i don't think would be dead weight really, either. but i'm wondering if it's just that not everyone has had time to respond to the talk about him since it's come up more recently, idk


----------



## rari_teh

Keldeo said:


> rari_teh said:
> 
> 
> 
> i’m calling that herbe is going to flip green and i’m going to dab all over the thread eifie style toMorrow
> 
> 
> 
> If Herbe flips red I get to dab on the thread in return, deal?
Click to expand...

deal! :3


----------



## Trebek

maybe...

the towncore is the mafia


----------



## rari_teh

Trebek said:


> maybe...
> View attachment 604
> the towncore is the mafia


*mewtini*


----------



## Tangrowth

Butterfree said:


> M Plus 7 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks mew. I had some townie vibes from Ultracool earlier but I think nothing of Herbe. ISO button away!
> 
> Seriously, I love whoever put this in.
> 
> 
> 
> You’re welcome.
Click to expand...

Butterfree is locktown.


----------



## rari_teh

jk *ultracool*


----------



## Tangrowth

mewtini said:


> M Plus 7 said:
> 
> 
> 
> That doesn't sound too promising from a gamestate reads perspective... do people think that Ultracool or Herbe would be considered to be dead weight and bussed or not?
> 
> 
> 
> ultracool maybe but (imo) he wouldn't be hard to at least nominally defend
> herbe i don't think would be dead weight really, either. but i'm wondering if it's just that not everyone has had time to respond to the talk about him since it's come up more recently, idk
Click to expand...

Your perspective is greatly appreciated!


----------



## Tangrowth

Lol, I like it, Trebek, although insert sentiment about something something tinfoil not useful this early whatever.


----------



## Keldeo

mewtini said:


> M Plus 7 said:
> 
> 
> 
> That doesn't sound too promising from a gamestate reads perspective... do people think that Ultracool or Herbe would be considered to be dead weight and bussed or not?
> 
> 
> 
> ultracool maybe but (imo) he wouldn't be hard to at least nominally defend
> herbe i don't think would be dead weight really, either. but i'm wondering if it's just that not everyone has had time to respond to the talk about him since it's come up more recently, idk
Click to expand...

Yeah I can imagine that if Herbe is mafia any of his partners would be blindsided by the wagon coming along kind of out of nowhere, particularly if they thought the day’s vote was secure on Town Ultracool

I’m not sure if they’d react by putting up resistance or trying to go for the bus tbh


----------



## Keldeo

I don’t know why autocorrect thinks Town should be capitalized. Yes? Yes Town?


----------



## Trebek

M Plus 7 said:


> Lol, I like it, Trebek, although insert sentiment about something something tinfoil not useful this early whatever.


oh, 100%. entirely for the memes right now, although i did have a bad dream last night about this exact scenario


----------



## Tangrowth

Trebek said:


> M Plus 7 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Lol, I like it, Trebek, although insert sentiment about something something tinfoil not useful this early whatever.
> 
> 
> 
> oh, 100%. entirely for the memes right now, although i did have a bad dream last night about this exact scenario
Click to expand...

I have a running theory that unprompted dreams about mafia posts are town tells.


----------



## mewtini

i do too, as someone who has semi-regular unprompted dreams about mafia posts. that doesn't really help anyone else clear me though.


----------



## mewtini

Keldeo said:


> Yeah I can imagine that if Herbe is mafia any of his partners would be blindsided by the wagon coming along kind of out of nowhere, particularly if they thought the day’s vote was secure on Town Ultracool


yeah. that's why i think that the somewhat low resistance here isn't as meaningful as the ultracool wagon, where it grew to overwhelming majority like ... silently?


----------



## Tangrowth

mewtini said:


> i do too, as someone who has semi-regular unprompted dreams about mafia posts. that doesn't really help anyone else clear me though.


I do too, let's start a mafia dream club!


----------



## Trebek

i’ve said this many times before but

coop dreaming when


----------



## Tangrowth

I'm looking back now, does anyone have any idea around what page range the Ultracool wagon started?


----------



## mewtini

M Plus 7 said:


> I'm looking back now, does anyone have any idea around what page range the Ultracool wagon started?


skylar placed the first vote on him in post 1299 (so page 65 i think? division hard)


----------



## Tangrowth

mewtini said:


> M Plus 7 said:
> 
> 
> 
> I'm looking back now, does anyone have any idea around what page range the Ultracool wagon started?
> 
> 
> 
> skylar placed the first vote on him in post 1299 (so page 65 i think? division hard)
Click to expand...

You're a lifesaver.


----------



## Keldeo

In no particular order it’d be nice to get your thoughts on Ultracool’s ISO (it’s really short), Herbe’s ISO, and IndigoEmmy’s claim and People’s reactions (can’t fetch the link but search for Skimbleshanks)


----------



## Tangrowth

Keldeo said:


> In no particular order it’d be nice to get your thoughts on Ultracool’s ISO (it’s really short), Herbe’s ISO, and IndigoEmmy’s claim and People’s reactions (can’t fetch the link but search for Skimbleshanks)


I'm down with that.


----------



## mewtini

M Plus 7 said:


> I'm looking back now, does anyone have any idea around what page range the Ultracool wagon started?


fwiw though it's been slow-growing. looking at vote history is maybe also useful 


Spoiler: vote hist



VM/kyeugh 1270
kyeugh/ultracool 1299
VM/ultracool 1326
mewtini/ultracool 1327
mewtini/unvote 1340
mewtini/kyeugh 1357
mewtini/unvote 1359
rnp/kyeugh 1453
mewtini/emmy 1472
trebek/emmy 1473
rari/emmy 1482
herbe/emmy 1489
keldeo/ultracool 1567
*tofu/ultracool 1604*
emmy/ultracool 1612
ultracool/emmy 1614
herbe/unvote 1653
blu/emmy 1717
rari/ultracool 1730
kyeugh/tofu 1732
*emmy/tofu 1634*
trebek/ultracool 1736
blu/tofu 1747
mewtini/tofu 1797
trebek/tofu 1876
ultracool/unvote 1884
*herbe/ultracool 1886
rnp/emmy 1926*
trebek/ultracool 1927
*kyeugh/ultracool 1939*
mewtini/ultracool 1941
*ils/blu 1996
keldeo/herbe 2056
mewtini/herbe 2059
trebek/herbe 2084*
blu/unvote 2095
VM/herbe 2104
VM/unvote 2114
*VM/herbe 2119
bfree/herbe 2163*
rari/mewtini 2184
*rari/ultracool 2186*


----------



## mewtini

ok just realized that some of that bolding is wrong/leaves stuff out so maybe just ignore it heh.


----------



## Keldeo

Btw re: reading MP7, there’s something I’m looking for whose name will sound really dumb if I say it, but it’s essentially an intense emotional reaction along the lines of how Rari originally reacted to the Alonzo claim - he’s self aware about it but I think if he does it it’ll make him town

If he doesn’t do it I don’t think it makes him mafia, but I’m wary


----------



## Tangrowth

Keldeo said:


> Btw re: reading MP7, there’s something I’m looking for whose name will sound really dumb if I say it, but it’s essentially an intense emotional reaction along the lines of how Rari originally reacted to the Alonzo claim - he’s self aware about it but I think if he does it it’ll make him town
> 
> If he doesn’t do it I don’t think it makes him mafia, but I’m wary


LMAO, yeah, I uhh don't have enough grounding in the game for that yet, but it is certainly a Thing that could happen at some point whenever I feel like I get a strong feeling about someone or something.


----------



## Tangrowth

M Plus 7 said:


> Keldeo said:
> 
> 
> 
> Btw re: reading MP7, there’s something I’m looking for whose name will sound really dumb if I say it, but it’s essentially an intense emotional reaction along the lines of how Rari originally reacted to the Alonzo claim - he’s self aware about it but I think if he does it it’ll make him town
> 
> If he doesn’t do it I don’t think it makes him mafia, but I’m wary
> 
> 
> 
> LMAO, yeah, I uhh don't have enough grounding in the game for that yet, but it is certainly a Thing that could happen at some point whenever I feel like I get a strong feeling about someone or something.
Click to expand...

I need to find a better name for it anyway, it only is called that thanks to an infamous quote from a Syndicate mafia player who sadly doesn't play much anymore.


----------



## Bluwiikoon

Keldeo said:


> I am gonna quickly eat something and then I’ll be back.
> 
> @Bluwiikoon if you had to choose between the two main wagons (Ultracool and Herbe) (with a third option of starting a new wagon) what would you pick?


I think *Herbe* for now. In day one they kept mentioning how towny they are and uhhhh honestly? I feel like a rolecop is kind of a huge risk for any town power roles, especially considering y'all are saying rolecop is usually a mafia role >:o Unless we get a specific cat claim from Herbe that people knowledgeable in The Lore can explain as being rolecop AND town, I'm ok putting my vote there. Sorry tangy bro ;o;

Tfw I realise my grocery delivery arrives anywhere in the next two hours  Sorry if I get sparse, I'll try my best!


----------



## rari_teh

what troubles me more is that herbe isn’t even here and isn’t likely to be before being lynched thrown in the basement

@Herbe PLEASE come and claim your cat
the only way the wagon may dissolve is if you catclaim and nobody counters it


----------



## Keldeo

Bluwiikoon said:


> Keldeo said:
> 
> 
> 
> I am gonna quickly eat something and then I’ll be back.
> 
> @Bluwiikoon if you had to choose between the two main wagons (Ultracool and Herbe) (with a third option of starting a new wagon) what would you pick?
> 
> 
> 
> I think *Herbe* for now. In day one they kept mentioning how towny they are and uhhhh honestly? I feel like a rolecop is kind of a huge risk for any town power roles, especially considering y'all are saying rolecop is usually a mafia role >:o Unless we get a specific cat claim from Herbe that people knowledgeable in The Lore can explain as being rolecop AND town, I'm ok putting my vote there. Sorry tangy bro ;o;
> 
> Tfw I realise my grocery delivery arrives anywhere in the next two hours  Sorry if I get sparse, I'll try my best!
Click to expand...

Oh yeah, he claimed Victoria, who spies on the other cats? Are there any Cats lore knowers around who can shed light on that?

I don’t think it’s usually a mafia role, it’s just possible for it to be mafia, especially more so than cop.


----------



## mewtini

Bluwiikoon said:


> I feel like a rolecop is kind of a huge risk for any town power roles, especially considering y'all are saying rolecop is usually a mafia role


oh, yeah. if herbe himself is the rolecop (i.e. it's not a scenario where someone else is feeding him info) then there's also the question of him, as mafia, finding a strong PR and supplying the mafia with a last nightkill before getting lynched

sounds like rolecop isn't necessarily mafia though so there is that


----------



## Vipera Magnifica

M Plus 7 said:


> Trebek said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> M Plus 7 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Lol, I like it, Trebek, although insert sentiment about something something tinfoil not useful this early whatever.
> 
> 
> 
> oh, 100%. entirely for the memes right now, although i did have a bad dream last night about this exact scenario
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I have a running theory that unprompted dreams about mafia posts are town tells.
Click to expand...

I had a dream a few days ago that I was playing mafia on another forum and they had an algorithm that could solve the whole game on D1. It made it not very fun.


----------



## rari_teh

Keldeo said:


> Oh yeah, he claimed Victoria, who spies on the other cats? Are there any Cats lore knowers around who can shed light on that?


oh yeah i’d forgotten about that! :o
@I liek Squirtles you around to comment?


----------



## Bluwiikoon

If there are roleblockers it would be pretty silly of them to target an alien and not an actual cop LOL


----------



## rari_teh

Vipera Magnifica said:


> M Plus 7 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Trebek said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> M Plus 7 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Lol, I like it, Trebek, although insert sentiment about something something tinfoil not useful this early whatever.
> 
> 
> 
> oh, 100%. entirely for the memes right now, although i did have a bad dream last night about this exact scenario
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I have a running theory that unprompted dreams about mafia posts are town tells.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I had a dream a few days ago that I was playing mafia on another forum and they had an algorithm that could solve the whole game on D1. It made it not very fun.
Click to expand...

they asked if they could, but they forgot to ask whether they should


----------



## Trebek

if herbe flips red, there’s also the implication of _who did he actually investigate_, since he can easily leak any mafia role names that could come across as NAI, and instead investigate other people secretly. that’s a tinfoil hat that i am not going to devote any more thought to unless he flips red though


----------



## rari_teh

Bluwiikoon said:


> If there are roleblockers it would be pretty silly of them to target an alien and not an actual cop LOL


yeah mate i think i see where you’re going with this, and for your image’s sake i’d say it’d probably for the best if you dropped this line of thinking for now tbh


----------



## Butterfree

Keldeo said:


> Bluwiikoon said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Keldeo said:
> 
> 
> 
> I am gonna quickly eat something and then I’ll be back.
> 
> @Bluwiikoon if you had to choose between the two main wagons (Ultracool and Herbe) (with a third option of starting a new wagon) what would you pick?
> 
> 
> 
> I think *Herbe* for now. In day one they kept mentioning how towny they are and uhhhh honestly? I feel like a rolecop is kind of a huge risk for any town power roles, especially considering y'all are saying rolecop is usually a mafia role >:o Unless we get a specific cat claim from Herbe that people knowledgeable in The Lore can explain as being rolecop AND town, I'm ok putting my vote there. Sorry tangy bro ;o;
> 
> Tfw I realise my grocery delivery arrives anywhere in the next two hours  Sorry if I get sparse, I'll try my best!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Oh yeah, he claimed Victoria, who spies on the other cats? Are there any Cats lore knowers around who can shed light on that?
> 
> I don’t think it’s usually a mafia role, it’s just possible for it to be mafia, especially more so than cop.
Click to expand...

Victoria is the “new guy” in the 2019 movie; she’s learning about the Jellicle tribe. The rolecop claim checks out with it. It’s sort of unusual to make her mafia, when she’s kind of the main character, but I’m not sure we should quite trust in the cats being alignment-indicative in general (I imagine Macavity is mafia, but otherwise it’s probably a toss-up).


----------



## rari_teh

rari_teh said:


> it’d probably


it’d **be* probably for the best
smh where my head at


----------



## Tangrowth

Ultracool's ISO is... thin, to say the least.



Mr. Ultracool said:


> I'm really, really sorry for not posting, like, at all, but I just genuinely can't manage to read anything of relevance out of toDay. The only things I found even slightly suspicious were the WIFOM-Macavity Claim and kyeugh imploring the Mafia to read more into the kill flavor, since they are pretty much the only ones who would know exactly why and how someone was killed :/


I still think this sounds genuine, but I suppose a scum!UltraCool could be channeling something NAI into a thing here.

Otherwise I got a big *shrug* for the rest of the ISO.


----------



## Vipera Magnifica

rari_teh said:


> rari_teh said:
> 
> 
> 
> it’d probably
> 
> 
> 
> it’d **be* probably for the best
> smh where my head at
Click to expand...

who is this be and why are we lynching them


----------



## qenya

eehhhhh

it hasn't escaped my notice that we're approaching EoD and herbe hasn't answered my question yet, though in fairness don't think he's been online yet

also this makes sense as an explanation:



Butterfree said:


> So, the way I see the Herbe situation is: Indigo’s cop claim puts the mafia in trouble: there is probably at least one doctor in the game, no danger of a healer clash so zero reason doctors wouldn’t heal Indigo, so the mafia is highly unlikely to be able to actually nightkill her. The mafia has two ways out: somehow get Emmy lynched despite the claim, or divert healers onto someone else. And... conveniently, suddenly Herbe appears, attempting both those things?


tentatively parking on *herbe* for now, though I don't promise not to change my mind later if he comes back and says something convincing


----------



## Tangrowth

Opened up Herbe's ISO, and I have a silly read, but...



Herbe said:


> omg you're fucking kidding me, mawile died???? my best friend and pal mawile is kill???????
> 
> guess I'll just have to hang out with my other best friend and pal, mewtini (when do we get to the part where you scumread me?)


Can someone better inform me what Herbe's mafia history is like? and/or if this kind of reaction is typically over-the-top? Because... I got a bit of a ping that this could be newbie scum entrance of ZOMG SOMEONE KILLED MY FRIEND feel, which I have actually seen on occasion.


----------



## Tangrowth

Okay, that read may be negated a bit just by how expressive Herbe is in general, if the posting here is more typical than AI.


----------



## Keldeo

Spoiler



If Herbe is mafia, I think he was probably bussed if he goes over instead of Ultracool. I think Trebek and Blu are the most likely to be bussers given their wagon position and how they maneuvered around the vote, but I'm not discounting any weirdness that happens in the next hour

I also think Herbe/Blu being mafia partners makes Butterfree like, even more super likely to be town, but ask me about this one later because that's a lot of moving parts


----------



## mewtini

M Plus 7 said:


> Can someone better inform me what Herbe's mafia history is like? and/or if this kind of reaction is typically over-the-top? Because... I got a bit of a ping that this could be newbie scum entrance of ZOMG SOMEONE KILLED MY FRIEND feel, which I have actually seen on occasion.


that's NAI memeing
he and mawile were scumbuddies with a really tight bond in the last game they played together


----------



## Vipera Magnifica

Trebek said:


> if herbe flips red, there’s also the implication of _who did he actually investigate_, since he can easily leak any mafia role names that could come across as NAI, and instead investigate other people secretly. that’s a tinfoil hat that i am not going to devote any more thought to unless he flips red though


this has been bothering me


----------



## Tangrowth

mewtini said:


> M Plus 7 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Can someone better inform me what Herbe's mafia history is like? and/or if this kind of reaction is typically over-the-top? Because... I got a bit of a ping that this could be newbie scum entrance of ZOMG SOMEONE KILLED MY FRIEND feel, which I have actually seen on occasion.
> 
> 
> 
> that's NAI memeing
> he and mawile were scumbuddies with a really tight bond in the last game they played together
Click to expand...

Ah, so there goes that, thanks mew.


----------



## qenya

Butterfree said:


> I’m not sure we should quite trust in the cats being alignment-indicative in general (I imagine Macavity is mafia, but otherwise it’s probably a toss-up).


also: if herbe is a rolecop, who's to say he doesn't get cat names as well? he could have targeted Mawile on n0, knowing that Mawile was going to be nightkilled in order to find out Mawile's cat name (Victoria), giving the mafia a name they could easily claim later with no risk of being counterclaimed

it's a bit sketchy as theories go, but imo even more reason not to treat his cat name as alignment-indicative


----------



## Tangrowth

Keldeo said:


> Spoiler
> 
> 
> 
> If Herbe is mafia, I think he was probably bussed if he goes over instead of Ultracool. I think Trebek and Blu are the most likely to be bussers given their wagon position and how they maneuvered around the vote, but I'm not discounting any weirdness that happens in the next hour
> 
> I also think Herbe/Blu being mafia partners makes Butterfree like, even more super likely to be town, but ask me about this one later because that's a lot of moving parts


Why was this spoilered? Not that I mind, the spoiler here is cool.


----------



## rari_teh

kokorico said:


> it hasn't escaped my notice that we're approaching EoD and herbe hasn't answered my question yet, though in fairness don't think he's been online yet


he posted this yesterday


Herbe said:


> I've got a lot going on in my personal life right now, I might have to go flora-esque and check out of the game for a couple days. sorry everyone


so i guess it’s unlikely he’ll be appearing before being cellar’d


----------



## mewtini

kokorico said:


> he could have targeted Mawile on n0, knowing that Mawile was going to be nightkilled in order to find out Mawile's cat name (Victoria), giving the mafia a name they could easily claim later with no risk of being counterclaimed


wait, what? isn't this when he grabbed butterfree's fishing brother role


----------



## Tangrowth

is cellar'd what were using instead of lynched? because I'm game for that if so, lmao


----------



## qenya

mewtini said:


> kokorico said:
> 
> 
> 
> he could have targeted Mawile on n0, knowing that Mawile was going to be nightkilled in order to find out Mawile's cat name (Victoria), giving the mafia a name they could easily claim later with no risk of being counterclaimed
> 
> 
> 
> wait, what? isn't this when he grabbed butterfree's fishing brother role
Click to expand...

I thought he said he targeted you n0 and butterfree n1


----------



## mewtini

mewtini said:


> kokorico said:
> 
> 
> 
> he could have targeted Mawile on n0, knowing that Mawile was going to be nightkilled in order to find out Mawile's cat name (Victoria), giving the mafia a name they could easily claim later with no risk of being counterclaimed
> 
> 
> 
> wait, what? isn't this when he grabbed butterfree's fishing brother role
Click to expand...

wait i'm misremembering, but -
he said he targeted me n0 and i'm pretty sure he does know my role, so i'm not with this train of thought


----------



## mewtini

ninja'd!


----------



## Trebek

just a vocab check, is bussing the term for scum upvoting other scum to try and self clear?


----------



## rari_teh

M Plus 7 said:


> is cellar'd what were using instead of lynched? because I'm game for that if so, lmao


yes lmao


----------



## mewtini

wait. uhhhh. i think i just realized something. stay tuned while i try to figure out how to talk about it


Trebek said:


> just a vocab check, is bussing the term for scum upvoting other scum to try and self clear?


yup


----------



## Trebek

mewtini said:


> mewtini said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> kokorico said:
> 
> 
> 
> he could have targeted Mawile on n0, knowing that Mawile was going to be nightkilled in order to find out Mawile's cat name (Victoria), giving the mafia a name they could easily claim later with no risk of being counterclaimed
> 
> 
> 
> wait, what? isn't this when he grabbed butterfree's fishing brother role
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> wait i'm misremembering, but -
> he said he targeted me n0 and i'm pretty sure he does know my role, so i'm not with this train of thought
Click to expand...

i’m pretty sure koko’s thought process lies in the same speculate-space that mine was

aka mewt/herbe w/w, herbe gets a free investigate and throws mewts role out instead


----------



## Keldeo

mewtini said:


> mewtini said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> kokorico said:
> 
> 
> 
> he could have targeted Mawile on n0, knowing that Mawile was going to be nightkilled in order to find out Mawile's cat name (Victoria), giving the mafia a name they could easily claim later with no risk of being counterclaimed
> 
> 
> 
> wait, what? isn't this when he grabbed butterfree's fishing brother role
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> wait i'm misremembering, but -
> he said he targeted me n0 and i'm pretty sure he does know my role, so i'm not with this train of thought
Click to expand...

Yeah, I don't think that theory makes sense, koko. If mewtini was actually like... [insert role that appears on town much more than mafia] I don't think Herbe's claim about it would have made sense and that would have been the end of that.


----------



## mewtini

mewtini said:


> wait. uhhhh. i think i just realized something. stay tuned while i try to figure out how to talk about it


i may reneg on herbe being mafia

related question. why do we think seshas got nk'ed?


----------



## Trebek

which honestly i’m not that invested in that thought process until herbe flips, be that today or later, but the fact that i was able to conceive of that line of play and it didn’t ping me as absolutely stupid gave me another Hmmm point against herbe


----------



## qenya

mewtini said:


> mewtini said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> kokorico said:
> 
> 
> 
> he could have targeted Mawile on n0, knowing that Mawile was going to be nightkilled in order to find out Mawile's cat name (Victoria), giving the mafia a name they could easily claim later with no risk of being counterclaimed
> 
> 
> 
> wait, what? isn't this when he grabbed butterfree's fishing brother role
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> wait i'm misremembering, but -
> he said he targeted me n0 and i'm pretty sure he does know my role, so i'm not with this train of thought
Click to expand...

no, sorry, I just rechecked - he said he'd checked you and butterfree but not in what order! not that it matters much (swap mawile for seshas)

If he has actually done something to make you think he knows your role then yeah, disregard me I guess. It just occurred to me that he hadn't actually proved he'd checked you


----------



## rari_teh

Trebek said:


> mewtini said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> mewtini said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> kokorico said:
> 
> 
> 
> he could have targeted Mawile on n0, knowing that Mawile was going to be nightkilled in order to find out Mawile's cat name (Victoria), giving the mafia a name they could easily claim later with no risk of being counterclaimed
> 
> 
> 
> wait, what? isn't this when he grabbed butterfree's fishing brother role
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> wait i'm misremembering, but -
> he said he targeted me n0 and i'm pretty sure he does know my role, so i'm not with this train of thought
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> i’m pretty sure koko’s thought process lies in the same speculate-space that mine was
> 
> aka mewt/herbe w/w, herbe gets a free investigate and throws mewts role out instead
Click to expand...

yeah, in that world that would make sense. though i’m 99% sure that mewtini is town, so i’m pretty much discarding this hypothesis


----------



## Vipera Magnifica

Trebek said:


> mewtini said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> mewtini said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> kokorico said:
> 
> 
> 
> he could have targeted Mawile on n0, knowing that Mawile was going to be nightkilled in order to find out Mawile's cat name (Victoria), giving the mafia a name they could easily claim later with no risk of being counterclaimed
> 
> 
> 
> wait, what? isn't this when he grabbed butterfree's fishing brother role
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> wait i'm misremembering, but -
> he said he targeted me n0 and i'm pretty sure he does know my role, so i'm not with this train of thought
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> i’m pretty sure koko’s thought process lies in the same speculate-space that mine was
> 
> aka mewt/herbe w/w, herbe gets a free investigate and throws mewts role out instead
Click to expand...

this is an interesting thought, but couldn't be true because town!emmy cleared mewtini


----------



## mewtini

kokorico said:


> no, sorry, I just rechecked - he said he'd checked you and butterfree but not in what order! not that it matters much (swap mawile for seshas)


i think i was his n0 and butterfree was his n1, by my hypocop check list


----------



## Trebek

mewtini said:


> mewtini said:
> 
> 
> 
> wait. uhhhh. i think i just realized something. stay tuned while i try to figure out how to talk about it
> 
> 
> 
> i may reneg on herbe being mafia
> 
> related question. why do we think seshas got nk'ed?
Click to expand...

honestly, the way i remembered it was that we were all sorta confused about why it happened, and then the conversation sorta just moved on? i might be misremembering


----------



## Trebek

Vipera Magnifica said:


> Trebek said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> mewtini said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> mewtini said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> kokorico said:
> 
> 
> 
> he could have targeted Mawile on n0, knowing that Mawile was going to be nightkilled in order to find out Mawile's cat name (Victoria), giving the mafia a name they could easily claim later with no risk of being counterclaimed
> 
> 
> 
> wait, what? isn't this when he grabbed butterfree's fishing brother role
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> wait i'm misremembering, but -
> he said he targeted me n0 and i'm pretty sure he does know my role, so i'm not with this train of thought
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> i’m pretty sure koko’s thought process lies in the same speculate-space that mine was
> 
> aka mewt/herbe w/w, herbe gets a free investigate and throws mewts role out instead
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> this is an interesting thought, but couldn't be true because town!emmy cleared mewtini
Click to expand...

wow, imagine remembering things

smooth brain moment


----------



## mewtini

talking about the seshas kill is kind of important to me to be honest
i don't want to say a lot more but. is there any possibility that rolecop is outgroup or something somehow? not really, right?


----------



## qenya

Trebek said:


> honestly, the way i remembered it was that we were all sorta confused about why it happened, and then the conversation sorta just moved on? i might be misremembering


yeah, iirc, the best we could come up with is that they were intimidated by seshas

fwiw I really don't think mewtini is scum, I was thinking along the lines of "what if herbe was only pretending to know her role"


----------



## Trebek

yeah, the fact that emmy also clears basically drives my speculation into the dirt, bc i like, super highly doubt there’s w/w/w 4d chess happening


----------



## rari_teh

Trebek said:


> wow, imagine remembering things
> 
> smooth brain moment


me atm
why do i even have a spreadsheet if i’m not consulting it when i need it smh


----------



## Trebek

mewtini said:


> talking about the seshas kill is kind of important to me to be honest
> i don't want to say a lot more but. is there any possibility that rolecop is outgroup or something somehow? not really, right?


i wouldn’t exactly see the point, bc normally the reason rolecop works is through its ability to communicate its findings, privately in the case of mafia. at least that’s how i remember the role working


----------



## Keldeo

mewtini said:


> mewtini said:
> 
> 
> 
> wait. uhhhh. i think i just realized something. stay tuned while i try to figure out how to talk about it
> 
> 
> 
> i may reneg on herbe being mafia
> 
> related question. why do we think seshas got nk'ed?
Click to expand...

Tell me more :O

I think since no redirecting role has spoken up, Seshas may have been killed for... idk, maybe the mafia figured something out about them and wanted them dead? Maybe some influential mafia were around for TVTropes and thought they'd be a threat later on?


----------



## rari_teh

mewtini said:


> related question. why do we think seshas got nk'ed?





mewtini said:


> talking about the seshas kill is kind of important to me to be honest
> i don't want to say a lot more but. is there any possibility that rolecop is outgroup or something somehow? not really, right?


we think seshas was nightkilled because we assume she’s the one who vanished (just like mawile), though it could be something else and the maf nk was blocked somehow?

somebody mentioned that rolecops may be 3p (koko?) but i don’t see how one could be outgroup maf


----------



## Trebek

i mean maybe, and this is extra speculation, v!herbe being rolecop is balanced out by there being a w!rolecop, who investigates seshas n0? is that what you’re thinking, mewt?


----------



## qenya

Trebek said:


> i mean maybe, and this is extra speculation, v!herbe being rolecop is balanced out by there being a w!rolecop, who investigates seshas n0? is that what you’re thinking, mewt?


this seems like an awful lot of cops needed to make this theory work, compared


----------



## Keldeo

mewtini said:


> talking about the seshas kill is kind of important to me to be honest
> i don't want to say a lot more but. is there any possibility that rolecop is outgroup or something somehow? not really, right?


I don't really get where you're going with this. I think possibly? If the role cop would be outgroup who doesn't know all the mafia, they could try to identify mafia via rolecopping, right?


----------



## qenya

kokorico said:


> Trebek said:
> 
> 
> 
> i mean maybe, and this is extra speculation, v!herbe being rolecop is balanced out by there being a w!rolecop, who investigates seshas n0? is that what you’re thinking, mewt?
> 
> 
> 
> this seems like an awful lot of cops needed to make this theory work, compared
Click to expand...

sorry! hit post too soon

this seems like an awful lot of cops needed to make this theory work, compared to the simpler solution of just "seshas is a skilled player who the mafia didn't want around any longer than necessary"

the main takeaway I got from TVT is that the mafia think everything through much less than everyone suspects


----------



## rari_teh

kokorico said:


> Trebek said:
> 
> 
> 
> i mean maybe, and this is extra speculation, v!herbe being rolecop is balanced out by there being a w!rolecop, who investigates seshas n0? is that what you’re thinking, mewt?
> 
> 
> 
> this seems like an awful lot of cops needed to make this theory work, compared
Click to expand...

this is role madness tbh, so i wouldn’t say that his theory is too farfetched
there are six mafia after all


----------



## Tangrowth

Can someone quickly supply me with... like really quick data as to Herbe meta, if they don't mind? I think it'd help me right now.


----------



## Trebek

rari_teh said:


> kokorico said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Trebek said:
> 
> 
> 
> i mean maybe, and this is extra speculation, v!herbe being rolecop is balanced out by there being a w!rolecop, who investigates seshas n0? is that what you’re thinking, mewt?
> 
> 
> 
> this seems like an awful lot of cops needed to make this theory work, compared
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> this is role madness tbh, so i wouldn’t say that his theory is too farfetched
> there are six mafia after all
Click to expand...

my speculation is also partially coming from the bias of playing on ToS where there are borderline zero vanilla roles, so cop+clashing rolecops happens almost guaranteed. obv that might not apply here, but just wanted to get my thoughts out


----------



## kyeugh

Keldeo said:


> Tell me more about ILS/RNP? I thought RNP’s posting about Emmy read as fairly sincere.


 i guess his posting felt... ok? i don’t feel that strongly about it and there are many other people i’m townleaning more heavily so he ends up close to the bottom; ils too. also isn’t he still voting on emmy anyway. 


mewtini said:


> related question. why do we think seshas got nk'ed?


they lasted too long last time


----------



## Keldeo

M Plus 7 said:


> Can someone quickly supply me with... like really quick data as to Herbe meta, if they don't mind? I think it'd help me right now.


He played a little old TCoDf mafia (very night action focused, low activity days) and then wasn't on TCoD for a while. His first game after coming back was the recently completed TVTropes Mafia, where he was mafia


----------



## mewtini

hmmmf
how significant/powerful of a role is (town) rolecop, is it really incompatible with there also being a cop on the town side


----------



## Keldeo

kyeugh said:


> Keldeo said:
> 
> 
> 
> Tell me more about ILS/RNP? I thought RNP’s posting about Emmy read as fairly sincere.
> 
> 
> 
> i guess his posting felt... ok? i don’t feel that strongly about it and there are many other people i’m townleaning more heavily so he ends up close to the bottom; ils too. also isn’t he still voting on emmy anyway.
> 
> 
> mewtini said:
> 
> 
> 
> related question. why do we think seshas got nk'ed?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> they lasted too long last time
Click to expand...

Yeah that's what I'm saying about RNP, like, Emmy is really not going to be wagoned today so the uselessness of the vote makes it read somewhat more genuinely. Does that make sense?


----------



## mewtini

i'm sorry for being cryptic, i'm just thinking that [redacted]


----------



## Novae

I kinda agree with the keldeo take on RNP


----------



## Tangrowth

Keldeo said:


> M Plus 7 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Can someone quickly supply me with... like really quick data as to Herbe meta, if they don't mind? I think it'd help me right now.
> 
> 
> 
> He played a little old TCoDf mafia (very night action focused, low activity days) and then wasn't on TCoD for a while. His first game after coming back was the recently completed TVTropes Mafia, where he was mafia
Click to expand...

how would you summary the style of play there?


----------



## Keldeo

mewtini said:


> hmmmf
> how significant/powerful of a role is (town) rolecop, is it really incompatible with there also being a cop on the town side


Not super powerful, but I think it would depend heavily on the roles that the mafia have and whether or not a rolecop could catch them out

I don't think it's actually incompatible with a cop with both being town, which is what I've been saying, but for Herbe specifically I'm still stuck with how he reacted/interacted with Emmy's claim.


----------



## rari_teh

M Plus 7 said:


> Can someone quickly supply me with... like really quick data as to Herbe meta, if they don't mind? I think it'd help me right now.


I can vouch for his tvt game, in which he was extremely crafty and pocketed most people pretty soon
turns out that he was the Big Bad with an outgroup mafia as a mentor (mawile) with whom he had private comms. mawile became the prime lynchee D2, so herbe panicked and claimed lovers. when one Day later people decided to lynch mawile anyway bc I had a redcheck on him, he claimed that he wouldn’t die with mawile, just lose and become a bitter widower. that’s when most people started getting iffy about his alignment, but there were still some that held that he was just a 3p who had already lost the game. he lasted for a couple more days before being finally lynched.


----------



## Trebek

mewtini said:


> hmmmf
> how significant/powerful of a role is (town) rolecop, is it really incompatible with there also being a cop on the town side


the way i see it, not incompatible at all. generally, rolecop has issues determining alignment, even if they know powers. cop does the exact opposite, so if they know of each others existence they offset each others weaknesses


----------



## Tangrowth

summarize, rather


----------



## kyeugh

mewtini said:


> hmmmf
> how significant/powerful of a role is (town) rolecop, is it really incompatible with there also being a cop on the town side


tbh i think it’s just weird? i don’t really know that it’s super _powerful_, but if you have a cop that straight up checks alignment then i think a rolecop (who as a role is functionally more useful to the mafia) seems kind of... idk. why have one, it’s the same thing but worse and town doesn’t benefit that much from it. it is just kind of strange tbh


----------



## mewtini

Keldeo said:


> Not super powerful, but I think it would depend heavily on the roles that the mafia have and whether or not a rolecop could catch them out


ok
i'm going to stand down then
maybe i will explain someday but i don't think i want to right now


----------



## Tangrowth

rari_teh said:


> M Plus 7 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Can someone quickly supply me with... like really quick data as to Herbe meta, if they don't mind? I think it'd help me right now.
> 
> 
> 
> I can vouch for his tvt game, in which he was extremely crafty and pocketed most people pretty soon
> turns out that he was the Big Bad with an outgroup mafia as a mentor (mawile) with whom he had private comms. mawile became the prime lynchee D2, so herbe panicked and claimed lovers. when one Day later people decided to lynch mawile anyway bc I had a redcheck on him, he claimed that he wouldn’t die with mawile, just lose and become a bitter widower. that’s when most people started getting iffy about his alignment, but there were still some that held that he was just a 3p who had already lost the game. he lasted for a couple more days before being finally lynched.
Click to expand...

this is awesome, thank you rari


----------



## kyeugh

redundant is the word i’m looking for. i think it makes more sense for *herbe* to mafia than not


----------



## Keldeo

Like if the mafia roles are like, (examples) poisoner godfather roleblocker and another rolecop or something, then rolecop is very powerful because a result on those means guilty

If they're like, idk, doctor and bulletproof for some weird reason, rolecop is not powerful


----------



## Trebek

for all we know, role names could have been set up in this game so that rolecop has a super hard time gleaning alignment. is such a thing possible?


----------



## Keldeo

Keldeo said:


> kyeugh said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Keldeo said:
> 
> 
> 
> Tell me more about ILS/RNP? I thought RNP’s posting about Emmy read as fairly sincere.
> 
> 
> 
> i guess his posting felt... ok? i don’t feel that strongly about it and there are many other people i’m townleaning more heavily so he ends up close to the bottom; ils too. also isn’t he still voting on emmy anyway.
> 
> 
> mewtini said:
> 
> 
> 
> related question. why do we think seshas got nk'ed?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> they lasted too long last time
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Yeah that's what I'm saying about RNP, like, Emmy is really not going to be wagoned today so the uselessness of the vote makes it read somewhat more genuinely. Does that make sense?
Click to expand...

Like I disagree with the take but I also disagreed with him blocking Stryke in TVTropes lol.


----------



## rari_teh

mewtini said:


> hmmmf
> how significant/powerful of a role is (town) rolecop, is it really incompatible with there also being a cop on the town side


I don’t think it would be incompatible, not really


mewtini said:


> i'm sorry for being cryptic, i'm just thinking that [redacted]


not to rush your thoughts, but i’d like to remind you that there are only 40 mins before eod, so i’d start talking a bit more asap if i were you


----------



## Keldeo

Trebek said:


> for all we know, role names could have been set up in this game so that rolecop has a super hard time gleaning alignment. is such a thing possible?


Very possible imo, if mafia have roles that can also be town - though that just makes rolecop itself kind of a useless role as town since... you can't get anyone's alignment, you can just check claims, and if mafia have roles that can also be town they'd just true claim.


----------



## kyeugh

Keldeo said:


> Yeah that's what I'm saying about RNP, like, Emmy is really not going to be wagoned today so the uselessness of the vote makes it read somewhat more genuinely. Does that make sense?


 i think it makes sense but i don’t think i want to assume that/clear him for it. i think alternatively he might just not really be paying attention/doesn’t want to vote for herbe... seems like when he placed the vote he was at the point in the thread where emmy had a ton of momentum and it seemed safe, and he just never adjusted it


----------



## mewtini

rari_teh said:


> not to rush your thoughts, but i’d like to remind you that there are only 40 mins before eod, so i’d start talking a bit more asap if i were you


no i know, sorry. i'm just going to vibe for now


----------



## Keldeo

kyeugh said:


> Keldeo said:
> 
> 
> 
> Yeah that's what I'm saying about RNP, like, Emmy is really not going to be wagoned today so the uselessness of the vote makes it read somewhat more genuinely. Does that make sense?
> 
> 
> 
> i think it makes sense but i don’t think i want to assume that/clear him for it. i think alternatively he might just not really be paying attention/doesn’t want to vote for herbe... seems like when he placed the vote he was at the point in the thread where emmy had a ton of momentum and it seemed safe, and he just never adjusted it
Click to expand...

Ehh, I guess. I think he was talking about that before I started the Herbe wagon, but I see what you're saying.


----------



## kyeugh

i have to get back on the road in a bit lol. be4 i go are there any thoughts anyone wants from me


----------



## Keldeo

I'm pretty sure both ILS and RNP both went to sleep before I started to science, actually

which is rip because it would've been cool to get reactions from them, but sleep is important.


----------



## Keldeo

kyeugh said:


> i have to get back on the road in a bit lol. be4 i go are there any thoughts anyone wants from me


Can I get your thoughts on Blu/Mist/MP7 so far this EOD?


----------



## mewtini

herbe (8): keldeo, mewtini, trebek, VM, bfree, blu, koko, kyeugh
ultracool (3): tofu, rari, herbe
tofu (1): emmy
blu (1): ils
emmy (1): rnp

what is happening tbh


----------



## Keldeo

mewtini said:


> herbe (8): keldeo, mewtini, trebek, VM, bfree, blu, koko, kyeugh
> ultracool (3): tofu, rari, herbe
> tofu (1): emmy
> blu (1): ils
> emmy (1): rnp
> 
> what is happening tbh


omg what...


----------



## Tofu

I am keeping my Ultracool vote for now. Herbe being Victoria makes a lot of sense to me in the Cats lore so I wouldn't want to vote Herbe yet. In addition to the fact that Herbe said he might not be around much today, he wouldn't be here to answer any questions/defend himself in the wagon. On the chance those two elements are true...? I'm keeping my vote. Just wanted to check in and let people know I've been reading but still unchanged vote-wise.


----------



## rari_teh

mewtini said:


> herbe (8): keldeo, mewtini, trebek, VM, bfree, blu, koko, kyeugh
> ultracool (3): tofu, rari, herbe
> tofu (1): emmy
> blu (1): ils
> emmy (1): rnp
> 
> what is happening tbh


I’ll concede that statistically it’s more likely that herbe’s scumbuddies are bussing him now than ultracool’s were bussing him before, given how rapid herbe’s ascent was
but i’m stubborn and won’t change my vote


----------



## I liek Squirtles

rari_teh said:


> Keldeo said:
> 
> 
> 
> Oh yeah, he claimed Victoria, who spies on the other cats? Are there any Cats lore knowers around who can shed light on that?
> 
> 
> 
> oh yeah i’d forgotten about that! :o
> @I liek Squirtles you around to comment?
Click to expand...


Now I am!! It makes sense to me, what with her being now and trying to learn from everyone and figuring what everyone does in each musical number

I'm also haven't forgotten abt giving my thoughts on tofu and mr uc!! today is my mom's birthday so we've been celebrating and stuff. I'm working on those quick since we've only a little time left


----------



## mewtini

could the mafia just be panicking over this and reacting by bussing??



Tofu said:


> Herbe being Victoria makes a lot of sense to me in the Cats lore so I wouldn't want to vote Herbe yet.


ftr there's not really confusion about whether or not he's telling the truth about his role/cat


----------



## Keldeo

Uhhhh

*unvote*?!

I think kokorico's turn on Herbe is kind of opportunistic and could be a bus as well, but do I really believe that 2-3 mafia are on inactive partner Herbe...


----------



## Keldeo

omg wait idk why I did that because it doesn't change anything

*Herbe*


----------



## kyeugh

Keldeo said:


> Can I get your thoughts on Blu/Mist/MP7 so far this EOD?


 i think m+7 looks pretty good honestly. his posting feels very genuine/searching to me. blu is kind of a black hole i think, he seems pretty concerned about the alien thing and i think a lot of his other posts about the stuff that’s actually going upon seem kind of token/put upon maybe? i still don’t really know mist’s meta very well, somehow, but they seem pretty much same as usual to me. maybe slightly more forthcoming. gonna need to see more posting tbh, but i liked superjolt’s posting before so that’s a point in the slot’s favor ig


----------



## mewtini

rari_teh said:


> but i’m stubborn


it's not you, it's me, cont


----------



## Keldeo

mewtini said:


> could the mafia just be panicking over this and reacting by bussing??


Yeah idk is this

mafia see me push a case on someone they know to be town and ride along with it because it makes me/us look bad later on
vs.
mafia see me push a case on their town partner and get supported by probably multiple townies, turn up the BUS IDLE because they don't think they can stop the train


----------



## rari_teh

Keldeo said:


> omg wait idk why I did that because it doesn't change anything


it kinda does tbh?


----------



## Vipera Magnifica

@Tofu please follow my lead on this

@kyeugh I have just one question for you and then I will let you off the hook forever

between Tofu and I, one of us is the vigilante, and one of us is a watcher

you said:



kyeugh said:


> pretty sure i know who the vig is tbh


please tell me which one of us is the vigilante, and explain how you know this

if I am satisfied with your answer, I will no longer suspect you

if not, the vigilante will kill you


----------



## Novae

my posting schedule is entirely arbitrary as both alignments tbh

anyway gonna vote *Ultracool* because I don't think herbe flips scum here

I don't think ultracool does either but


----------



## rari_teh

mewtini said:


> rari_teh said:
> 
> 
> 
> but i’m stubborn
> 
> 
> 
> it's not you, it's me, cont
Click to expand...

never forget, good sport. it’s not you, it’s me ~


----------



## kyeugh

I liek Squirtles said:


> today is my mom's birthday


wtf ils’s mom is does married to bfree??


----------



## Trebek

Keldeo said:


> Trebek said:
> 
> 
> 
> for all we know, role names could have been set up in this game so that rolecop has a super hard time gleaning alignment. is such a thing possible?
> 
> 
> 
> Very possible imo, if mafia have roles that can also be town - though that just makes rolecop itself kind of a useless role as town since... you can't get anyone's alignment, you can just check claims, and if mafia have roles that can also be town they'd just true claim.
Click to expand...

yeah, that’s what i was actually expecting to be true in this AU: the role cop functions the best if it can be combined with a copcheck. my assumption would be that if there were roles that could be NAI, like a role blocker, then the roles would be roles where alignment could be determined through thread presence and night action history

idk, i’m thinking too hard about this particular thing and not hard enough about the rest of EoD, i’m gonna go back and reread now


----------



## Butterfree

For what it’s worth, in case it relates to what mewtini is thinking: I don’t think that it’s impossible to have both a town rolecop and an alignment cop. If Herbe were to flip town, I don’t think that this would implicate Indigo. My suspicion of Herbe does not depend on him being town being incompatible with Indigo being town; it’s his specific behaviour in response to Indigo’s claim.


----------



## mewtini

for posterity - it does not 100% relate. but ty!


----------



## Keldeo

Keldeo said:


> mafia see me push a case on their _town_ partner and get supported by probably multiple townies, turn up the BUS IDLE because they don't think they can stop the train


wires got crossed 

mafia see _town_ me push a case on their partner and get supported by probably multiple townies, turn up the BUS IDLE because they don't think they can stop the train


----------



## Keldeo

Please click the BUS IDLE link I've been waiting to use that in a mafia game forever


----------



## kyeugh

Vipera Magnifica said:


> @Tofu please follow my lead on this
> 
> @kyeugh I have just one question for you and then I will let you off the hook forever
> 
> between Tofu and I, one of us is the vigilante, and one of us is a watcher
> 
> you said:
> 
> 
> 
> kyeugh said:
> 
> 
> 
> pretty sure i know who the vig is tbh
> 
> 
> 
> please tell me which one of us is the vigilante, and explain how you know this
> 
> if I am satisfied with your answer, I will no longer suspect you
> 
> if not, the vigilante will kill you
Click to expand...

i was pretty sure it was you. you seemed to be looking for guidance before, and suggested the presence of a vig iirc before we knew for sure there was one: https://forums.dragonflycave.com/threads/cats-2019-mafia.18670/post-682169

then you reacted pretty strongly to me mentioning it and tried to get me to talk about it, and apparently never forgot about it. i’ve been pretty much counting on getting shot tonight since you started pushing me anyway tbh. maybe it comes out to be tofu and haha lolskylar but i’ve been thinking it was you for a while now.


----------



## Novae

I'm in this awkward position where I'm kinda hating bfree/mewtini progression on herbe but it's probably just me being bad because like, they have mech stuff going for them if herb is town?


----------



## Keldeo

Mist1422 said:


> I'm in this awkward position where I'm kinda hating bfree/mewtini progression on herbe but it's probably just me being bad because like, they have mech stuff going for them if herb is town?


I think they're both mechanically near clear no matter Herbe's alignment, do you disagree?


----------



## I liek Squirtles

Keldeo said:


> Please click the BUS IDLE link I've been waiting to use that in a mafia game forever


I can smell this sound. ready 2 go on a fieldtrip


----------



## Novae

Keldeo said:


> Mist1422 said:
> 
> 
> 
> I'm in this awkward position where I'm kinda hating bfree/mewtini progression on herbe but it's probably just me being bad because like, they have mech stuff going for them if herb is town?
> 
> 
> 
> I think they're both mechanically near clear no matter Herbe's alignment, do you disagree?
Click to expand...

butterfree sure but I don't remember seeing a clearing claim from mewtini


----------



## Keldeo

Butterfree said:


> My suspicion of Herbe does not depend on him being town being incompatible with Indigo being town; it’s his specific behaviour in response to Indigo’s claim.


Also, this is true for me as well and this is why I think I'm sticking on Herbe


----------



## rari_teh

Mist1422 said:


> Keldeo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mist1422 said:
> 
> 
> 
> I'm in this awkward position where I'm kinda hating bfree/mewtini progression on herbe but it's probably just me being bad because like, they have mech stuff going for them if herb is town?
> 
> 
> 
> I think they're both mechanically near clear no matter Herbe's alignment, do you disagree?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> butterfree sure but I don't remember seeing a clearing claim from mewtini
Click to expand...

Emmy cleared her n0


----------



## Keldeo

Mist1422 said:


> Keldeo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mist1422 said:
> 
> 
> 
> I'm in this awkward position where I'm kinda hating bfree/mewtini progression on herbe but it's probably just me being bad because like, they have mech stuff going for them if herb is town?
> 
> 
> 
> I think they're both mechanically near clear no matter Herbe's alignment, do you disagree?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> butterfree sure but I don't remember seeing a clearing claim from mewtini
Click to expand...

Oh, Emmy claimed to have cop checked her



Spoiler



would Mist have mist this as mafia?


----------



## mewtini

we're at 25 minutes to EoD
is there another person who anyone wants to push


----------



## Keldeo

Uh hey Mr. Ultracool, I see you're reacting to stuff but not posting, do you have any thoughts?


----------



## qenya

mewtini said:


> herbe (8): keldeo, mewtini, trebek, VM, bfree, blu, koko, kyeugh
> ultracool (3): tofu, rari, herbe
> tofu (1): emmy
> blu (1): ils
> emmy (1): rnp
> 
> what is happening tbh


holy shit
uh

wasn't the reason we were doubtful of the ultracool wagon that nobody really seemed to be opposing it? and now the same thing is happening with herbe

i swear to god, if this is another v/v


----------



## mewtini

kokorico said:


> wasn't the reason we were doubtful of the ultracool wagon that nobody really seemed to be opposing it? and now the same thing is happening with herbe


yeah though i think herbe is more likely to be getting bussed right now due to the rapid onset
ultracool's wagon grew so slowly that maf could have avoided it if they wanted to i think


----------



## Keldeo

I liek Squirtles said:


> Keldeo said:
> 
> 
> 
> Please click the BUS IDLE link I've been waiting to use that in a mafia game forever
> 
> 
> 
> I can smell this sound. ready 2 go on a fieldtrip
Click to expand...

What vote would you place if you had to decide between the top two wagons (Herbe / Ultracool)?


----------



## Bluwiikoon

I can't speak for anyone else but I just trust butterfree's judgement on the Herbe matter tbh


----------



## rari_teh

mewtini said:


> we're at 25 minutes to EoD
> is there another person who anyone wants to push


i was thinking vm but now that he hardclaimed vig/watcher i’m like whatwhatwhat
up for wagonhopping to other people though



kokorico said:


> i swear to god, if this is another v/v


then I’ll dab harder tbh
this is 75% v/v in my head


----------



## Keldeo

mewtini said:


> kokorico said:
> 
> 
> 
> wasn't the reason we were doubtful of the ultracool wagon that nobody really seemed to be opposing it? and now the same thing is happening with herbe
> 
> 
> 
> yeah though i think herbe is more likely to be getting bussed right now due to the rapid onset
> ultracool's wagon grew so slowly that maf could have avoided it if they wanted to i think
Click to expand...

Yeah I think just saying they're at similar positions numbers-wise is a little reductive - while I think large swings can indicate v/v with townies not sure who to go onto, it's been a faster ramp-up and I think the early part of the wagon is fairly pure


----------



## Tangrowth

Herbe ISO

It is occasionally a bit difficult to sift through the shitposting and manner of speaking to find the real content here, but I think I see enough to give pause for the current wagon.

A general beef I have with Herbe's posting is that the game-related content to non-game-related content ratio is really bad... could indicate that Herbe is having trouble manufacturing reads.



Spoiler






Herbe said:


> i have the strongest feeling that im gonna get mislynched like D2 lmao
> my past sins haunt me





This feels a bit overly self-aware but in a concerned way. It's a slight read, but I give more townie points than not to this. Some scum players *think* to post stuff like this, others don't, and I'm making a determination that this is more likely due to a genuine concern than not.



Spoiler






Herbe said:


> if it's time to start airing reads, copcover mewtini is acting cool and townie (or 3p shrugtownie like last game lmao)
> very interested in bluwiikoon!!! would love to hear more from him, but the vibes are good there
> 
> not much else stands out to me right now





This is the first real reads post from what I could tell... it could go either way, but "not much else stands out to me right now" the sentiment combined with the diction feels a bit open. Most of Herbe's posts fall into this category from what I can tell, and it is difficult to make a true read. However...



Spoiler






Herbe said:


> Ughhhhhhhhhhhhh I'm so frustrated with myself. I failed to consider that if I played to my usual towngame early on in TVT, that immediately after my reputation would be tarnished when I'm actually town. Of course, "usual" is a stretch here, cause I haven't played forum mafia in forever, but I was legitimately trying to be town early on. I literally psyched myself out of knowing what happened to Jack d1 (I killed him) and I was like omg this flavor IS so weird!! I wonder what the hell happened??? Who killed jack????? like, in my head. not even performatively. kyeugh, you can vouch, in scumchat when i was losing my mind and mf was like "go to sleep herbe."
> 
> I also make this point because I have to pay attention to the fact that kyeugh and i are not a scumteam anymore and she's not distancing me, she's literally just reading me. And I know that I probably shouldn't be so meta cause that's not gonna wiggle me out of any scumreads but I'm not gonna censor my stream of consiousness for the sake of reads.
> 
> Re: keldeo
> 
> 
> Keldeo said:
> 
> 
> 
> random question, do you think you like being mafia or town better?
> 
> 
> 
> Ask me again at the end of this game, cause I haven't played a game to its finish as town in recent memory. Right now I'm inclined to say mafia. It comes so much easier to me,,,,, also I miss having partners. I miss mawile!!!!! OOT communication is my favorite and I miss being able to bounce ideas off of other players. If anyone wants to loverize me (for real this time) please do!
> 
> Anyway I just re-caught up with the thread (and woke up for the day) so yeah. this post is long enough
Click to expand...




I'm not too sure, but if I had to guess I don't think this post comes from scum as often as it does from town. It's too stream-of-consciousness, for one, from my perception of the way Herbe plays and in general... I don't think scum!Herbe thinks to make a post this long-winded because they may be concerned they're overdoing it. What really stands out to me though is the underlined sentence, that seems like a genuine thought. With that said, I suppose scum!Herbe could playing that up for lack of being able to force genuine reads and such, so it's not definitive or anything.

That's all behavioral, which is more my forte to say the least. As for the claim... I could see it being fake given what already is purported to be claimed by Emmy being cop. I don't know that town cop + town role cop seems balanced.

Personally though, I think I see enough potential for townieness here that I'd rather go for Ultracool than Herbe, so...

*vote Ultracool*


----------



## Vipera Magnifica

kyeugh said:


> Vipera Magnifica said:
> 
> 
> 
> @Tofu please follow my lead on this
> 
> @kyeugh I have just one question for you and then I will let you off the hook forever
> 
> between Tofu and I, one of us is the vigilante, and one of us is a watcher
> 
> you said:
> 
> 
> 
> kyeugh said:
> 
> 
> 
> pretty sure i know who the vig is tbh
> 
> 
> 
> please tell me which one of us is the vigilante, and explain how you know this
> 
> if I am satisfied with your answer, I will no longer suspect you
> 
> if not, the vigilante will kill you
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> i was pretty sure it was you. you seemed to be looking for guidance before, and suggested the presence of a vig iirc before we knew for sure there was one: https://forums.dragonflycave.com/threads/cats-2019-mafia.18670/post-682169
> 
> then you reacted pretty strongly to me mentioning it and tried to get me to talk about it, and apparently never forgot about it. i’ve been pretty much counting on getting shot tonight since you started pushing me anyway tbh. maybe it comes out to be tofu and haha lolskylar but i’ve been thinking it was you for a while now.
Click to expand...

I am satisfied with this answer. I lied about both of our roles, but wanted to see how you would react. If you came up with some role reason for knowing the vig and actually did identify one of us, or took too long to respond, I would have known you were mafia.


----------



## kyeugh

i’ve been idling in a gas station parking lot forever now, really gotta go. hopefully i don’t die tonight tbh! honestly i’m not sure why vm wouldn’t kill me regardless of my answer there so i expect i probably will. if so, it has been fun and i wish my scummates rnp and ultracool good luck!


----------



## I liek Squirtles

Ok so ultracool seems a bit fishy to me, if only because of VM's decisive statement in #1590. ALSO there's something here that Mr. Ultracool posted that also makes me suspect Tofu as well, since I'm a bit more inclined to believe VM is vig:



Mr. Ultracool said:


> IndigoEmmy said:
> 
> 
> 
> Announcement to all cops (if there are any): Please check kyeugh tonight.
> 
> 
> 
> Telling the cop whom to check seems quite fishy, too - what if the Maf has a Watcher?
> *IndigoEmmy*
Click to expand...

*Mr. Ultracool*


----------



## mewtini

herbe (8): keldeo, mewtini, trebek, VM, bfree, blu, koko, kyeugh
ultracool (5): tofu, rari, herbe, mist, m+7
tofu (1): emmy
blu (1): ils
emmy (1): rnp


M Plus 7 said:


> This feels a bit overly self-aware but in a concerned way. It's a slight read, but I give more townie points than not to this. Some scum players *think* to post stuff like this, others don't, and I'm making a determination that this is more likely due to a genuine concern than not.


tbh after having seen him in tropes, i think that if any scum player would think to say stuff like this, it would be herbe


----------



## I liek Squirtles

well there goes the tofu thing i said lol, ninja'd


----------



## kyeugh

Vipera Magnifica said:


> kyeugh said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Vipera Magnifica said:
> 
> 
> 
> @Tofu please follow my lead on this
> 
> @kyeugh I have just one question for you and then I will let you off the hook forever
> 
> between Tofu and I, one of us is the vigilante, and one of us is a watcher
> 
> you said:
> 
> 
> 
> kyeugh said:
> 
> 
> 
> pretty sure i know who the vig is tbh
> 
> 
> 
> please tell me which one of us is the vigilante, and explain how you know this
> 
> if I am satisfied with your answer, I will no longer suspect you
> 
> if not, the vigilante will kill you
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> i was pretty sure it was you. you seemed to be looking for guidance before, and suggested the presence of a vig iirc before we knew for sure there was one: https://forums.dragonflycave.com/threads/cats-2019-mafia.18670/post-682169
> 
> then you reacted pretty strongly to me mentioning it and tried to get me to talk about it, and apparently never forgot about it. i’ve been pretty much counting on getting shot tonight since you started pushing me anyway tbh. maybe it comes out to be tofu and haha lolskylar but i’ve been thinking it was you for a while now.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I am satisfied with this answer. I lied about both of our roles, but wanted to see how you would react. If you came up with some role reason for knowing the vig and actually did identify one of us, or took too long to respond, I would have known you were mafia.
Click to expand...

ohh...!! dope tbh. in that case, i didn’t just say that thing about rnp and ultracool.


----------



## mewtini

i'm obsessed with vm's test just now tbh.


----------



## Trebek

ngl if this flips v/v again i might end up actually devoting brainpower to the tinfoilhat memepost from earlier


----------



## Trebek

mewtini said:


> i'm obsessed with vm's test just now tbh.


same tbh


----------



## mewtini

I liek Squirtles said:


> Ok so ultracool seems a bit fishy to me, if only because of VM's decisive statement in #1590.


i'm confused on this honestly


----------



## Keldeo

Bluwiikoon said:


> I can't speak for anyone else but I just trust butterfree's judgement on the Herbe matter tbh


(if this is a bus, I don't see why he would defer the responsibility)


----------



## mewtini

mewtini said:


> I liek Squirtles said:
> 
> 
> 
> Ok so ultracool seems a bit fishy to me, if only because of VM's decisive statement in #1590.
> 
> 
> 
> i'm confused on this honestly
Click to expand...

ftr, vm's 1590 is him saying "ultracool is def mafia" because ultracool said that fishing was anti-town. i don't really find it that convincing


----------



## Tangrowth

Bluwiikoon said:


> I can't speak for anyone else but I just trust butterfree's judgement on the Herbe matter tbh


What do you mean by this?


----------



## I liek Squirtles

*unvote*, I am Extremely confused now


----------



## Keldeo

I liek Squirtles said:


> Ok so ultracool seems a bit fishy to me, if only because of VM's decisive statement in #1590. ALSO there's something here that Mr. Ultracool posted that also makes me suspect Tofu as well, since I'm a bit more inclined to believe VM is vig:
> 
> 
> 
> Mr. Ultracool said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> IndigoEmmy said:
> 
> 
> 
> Announcement to all cops (if there are any): Please check kyeugh tonight.
> 
> 
> 
> Telling the cop whom to check seems quite fishy, too - what if the Maf has a Watcher?
> *IndigoEmmy*
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *Mr. Ultracool*
Click to expand...

I kind of don't understand this vote tbh

Gonna read up MP7's big post


----------



## Tangrowth

trying to catch up on what was said while I was doing that now in a haste


----------



## Mr. Ultracool

Keldeo said:


> Uh hey Mr. Ultracool, I see you're reacting to stuff but not posting, do you have any thoughts?


I'm pretty surprised by both of the wagons that popped up, because herbe doesn't really seem all that scummy to me - however, I also know that I'm town, myself, so I'm absolutely unsure of what to do right now. For the moment, I'd rather vote *herbe*, although I'd really like to switch off again, later. Should I perhaps claim my role? It would perhaps explain some things that made me seem scummy.


----------



## Tangrowth

kyeugh said:


> i’ve been idling in a gas station parking lot forever now, really gotta go. hopefully i don’t die tonight tbh! honestly i’m not sure why vm wouldn’t kill me regardless of my answer there so i expect i probably will. if so, it has been fun and i wish my scummates rnp and ultracool good luck!


*head explodes due to WIFOM*


----------



## Trebek

what i’m asking myself about herbe rn is: if we think that we can get more information about his alignment in the future (be it through a cop check or just herbe posting more), which is more detrimental to town? killing off a v!rolecop, or letting a w!rolecop get another check off?


----------



## mewtini

i don't love ils' last post but i'm also kind of scared about possible worlds where herbe is a rolecop and mafia and gets another possibly-townwrecking PR check


----------



## Bluwiikoon

M Plus 7 said:


> Bluwiikoon said:
> 
> 
> 
> I can't speak for anyone else but I just trust butterfree's judgement on the Herbe matter tbh
> 
> 
> 
> What do you mean by this?
Click to expand...

Butterfree was the first one I can recall having suspicions about Herbe based on D1 "haha, it's so different playing as town!" esque posts Herbe made. It really made me reconsider my Herbe feelings because up until then I felt they were legit towny, and the rolecop stuff also seems suspect imo.


----------



## mewtini

ninjad


----------



## rari_teh

Mr. Ultracool said:


> Keldeo said:
> 
> 
> 
> Uh hey Mr. Ultracool, I see you're reacting to stuff but not posting, do you have any thoughts?
> 
> 
> 
> I'm pretty surprised by both of the wagons that popped up, because herbe doesn't really seem all that scummy to me - however, I also know that I'm town, myself, so I'm absolutely unsure of what to do right now. For the moment, I'd rather vote *herbe*, although I'd really like to switch off again, later. Should I perhaps claim my role? It would perhaps explain some things that made me seem scummy.
Click to expand...

hi, good to see you!
i’d be happy with a roleclaim ig, but i don’t think it’s too necessary given how far ahead herbe is, so do whatever your heart says is right


----------



## Tangrowth

Keldeo said:


> I liek Squirtles said:
> 
> 
> 
> Ok so ultracool seems a bit fishy to me, if only because of VM's decisive statement in #1590. ALSO there's something here that Mr. Ultracool posted that also makes me suspect Tofu as well, since I'm a bit more inclined to believe VM is vig:
> 
> 
> 
> Mr. Ultracool said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> IndigoEmmy said:
> 
> 
> 
> Announcement to all cops (if there are any): Please check kyeugh tonight.
> 
> 
> 
> Telling the cop whom to check seems quite fishy, too - what if the Maf has a Watcher?
> *IndigoEmmy*
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *Mr. Ultracool*
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I kind of don't understand this vote tbh
> 
> Gonna read up MP7's big post
Click to expand...

Your input would be incredibly appreciated for sure.


----------



## Keldeo

rari_teh said:


> Mr. Ultracool said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Keldeo said:
> 
> 
> 
> Uh hey Mr. Ultracool, I see you're reacting to stuff but not posting, do you have any thoughts?
> 
> 
> 
> I'm pretty surprised by both of the wagons that popped up, because herbe doesn't really seem all that scummy to me - however, I also know that I'm town, myself, so I'm absolutely unsure of what to do right now. For the moment, I'd rather vote *herbe*, although I'd really like to switch off again, later. Should I perhaps claim my role? It would perhaps explain some things that made me seem scummy.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> hi, good to see you!
> i’d be happy with a roleclaim ig, but i don’t think it’s too necessary given how far ahead herbe is, so do whatever your heart says is right
Click to expand...

Uh yeah don't roleclaim unless you're actually about to die imo


----------



## Tangrowth

Trebek said:


> what i’m asking myself about herbe rn is: if we think that we can get more information about his alignment in the future (be it through a cop check or just herbe posting more), which is more detrimental to town? killing off a v!rolecop, or letting a w!rolecop get another check off?


I understand the inclination, but I'm very much against information lynches personally.


----------



## mewtini

@Keldeo is there anyone specific you think could actually be bussing herbe right now? not looking for names necessarily, i just want to know if it's super possible we're just dogpiling a townie again. sorry if i missed it or if i read it and it evacuated my brain

ils' justification in voting on ultracool feels rushed in a bad way to me, but then again he unvoted right after ... hard to tell bc i think he was thrown by VM's "claim"


----------



## Bluwiikoon

Got a low blood sugar so apologies if I have more brainrot than usual ^^; The snacks take a while to kick in!


----------



## mewtini

M Plus 7 said:


> I understand the inclination, but I'm very much against information lynches personally.


i don't think trebek is describing an infolynch


----------



## Trebek

M Plus 7 said:


> Trebek said:
> 
> 
> 
> what i’m asking myself about herbe rn is: if we think that we can get more information about his alignment in the future (be it through a cop check or just herbe posting more), which is more detrimental to town? killing off a v!rolecop, or letting a w!rolecop get another check off?
> 
> 
> 
> I understand the inclination, but I'm very much against information lynches personally.
Click to expand...

that’s also the side i’m leaning towards at the moment, but i’m not sure if my vote has changed yet. it is really close tho


----------



## I liek Squirtles

mewtini said:


> i don't love ils' last post but i'm also kind of scared about possible worlds where herbe is a rolecop and mafia and gets another possibly-townwrecking PR check


tbh the thing that's been worrying me the most about herbe is, if he's mafia, that he's already gotten a townwrecking PR check and the mafia have their sights set for a primo kill toNight


----------



## qenya

Trebek said:


> what i’m asking myself about herbe rn is: if we think that we can get more information about his alignment in the future (be it through a cop check or just herbe posting more), which is more detrimental to town? killing off a v!rolecop, or letting a w!rolecop get another check off?


ooh this is a good point

probably the former tbqh

......swapping so close to eod probably doesn't look great for me, huh, but fine, *Ultracool*

(I still think Ultracool is less likely to be mafia but the town utility argument is a strong one)


----------



## mewtini

I liek Squirtles said:


> tbh the thing that's been worrying me the most about herbe is, if he's mafia, that he's already gotten a townwrecking PR check and the mafia have their sights set for a primo kill toNight


yeah. 
but then i wonder bc his most recent check was on butterfree and apparently nothing happened with whatever they thought of my role n0


----------



## Tangrowth

mewtini said:


> M Plus 7 said:
> 
> 
> 
> I understand the inclination, but I'm very much against information lynches personally.
> 
> 
> 
> i don't think trebek is describing an infolynch
Click to expand...

Oh, I misread a bit, I see what he's saying now, disregard. I like the line of thinking from Trebek but as for whether it should influence someone's vote I'll *shrug*.


----------



## Tangrowth

UC, what are your other reads, anything else you'd like to share?


----------



## Keldeo

Uhh... tbh, although I appreciate that he made them, MP7's thoughts don't move the needle that much for me. They seem to be mostly based on little fiddly tone/mindset things from day 1, which afaict are things that mafia Herbe excels at faking - I townread him for his early tone despite the fact that he didn't give a lot of reads early on in TVTropes



mewtini said:


> @Keldeo is there anyone specific you think could actually be bussing herbe right now? not looking for names necessarily, i just want to know if it's super possible we're just dogpiling a townie again. sorry if i missed it or if i read it and it evacuated my brain
> 
> ils' justification in voting on ultracool feels rushed in a bad way to me, but then again he unvoted right after ... hard to tell bc i think he was thrown by VM's "claim"


I thiiink so and I can name names later if you want, and same, hmm


----------



## mewtini

*ultracool*
pls claim

herbe (6): keldeo, trebek, VM, bfree, blu, kyeugh
ultracool (7): tofu, rari, herbe, mist, m+7, koko, mewtini
tofu (1): emmy
emmy (1): rnp


----------



## Vipera Magnifica

mewtini said:


> mewtini said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I liek Squirtles said:
> 
> 
> 
> Ok so ultracool seems a bit fishy to me, if only because of VM's decisive statement in #1590.
> 
> 
> 
> i'm confused on this honestly
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> ftr, vm's 1590 is him saying "ultracool is def mafia" because ultracool said that fishing was anti-town. i don't really find it that convincing
Click to expand...

to be fair this was from when i was in the tinfoil headspace that skylar _had _to be mafia and was buddies with ultracool (but in actuality i guess i just really really _wanted_ him to be mafia)

i have since removed the clown makeup and left that tunnel


----------



## Trebek

mewt, question for you (this might change my vote)

in the hypothetical situation that herbe is maf and you are town, would you consider his check on you as a reason to be scared about getting mafkilled? if the answer is yes, then i feel more inclined to believe herbe is town


----------



## mewtini

Trebek said:


> in the hypothetical situation that herbe is maf and you are town, would you consider his check on you as a reason to be scared about getting mafkilled? if the answer is yes, then i feel more inclined to believe herbe is town


precisely


----------



## Tangrowth

Keldeo said:


> Uhh... tbh, although I appreciate that he made them, MP7's thoughts don't move the needle that much for me. They seem to be mostly based on little fiddly tone/mindset things from day 1, which afaict are things that mafia Herbe excels at faking - I townread him for his early tone despite the fact that he didn't give a lot of reads early on in TVTropes
> 
> 
> 
> mewtini said:
> 
> 
> 
> @Keldeo is there anyone specific you think could actually be bussing herbe right now? not looking for names necessarily, i just want to know if it's super possible we're just dogpiling a townie again. sorry if i missed it or if i read it and it evacuated my brain
> 
> ils' justification in voting on ultracool feels rushed in a bad way to me, but then again he unvoted right after ... hard to tell bc i think he was thrown by VM's "claim"
> 
> 
> 
> I thiiink so and I can name names later if you want, and same, hmm
Click to expand...

This is good to know. I think I'll still keep my vote where it is pending UC further posts or something, but it does compel me to doubt the interpretation a bit more.


----------



## Trebek

ok after i asked that i realized that relies on herbe checking you n0 and i don’t remember which order it was


----------



## mewtini

Trebek said:


> ok after i asked that i realized that relies on herbe checking you n0 and i don’t remember which order it was


he did

your post is exactly why i was being cryptic before btw, that was what i had just realized


----------



## Vipera Magnifica

Bluwiikoon said:


> I can't speak for anyone else but I just trust butterfree's judgement on the Herbe matter tbh


if you think emmy is alien then why would you think herbe isn't town-aligned?

this doesn't make sense

*ultracool*


----------



## Trebek

mewtini said:


> Trebek said:
> 
> 
> 
> ok after i asked that i realized that relies on herbe checking you n0 and i don’t remember which order it was
> 
> 
> 
> he did
> 
> your post is exactly why i was being cryptic before btw, that was what i had just realized
Click to expand...

spicy 

*mr ultracool*


----------



## Keldeo

Vipera Magnifica said:


> Bluwiikoon said:
> 
> 
> 
> I can't speak for anyone else but I just trust butterfree's judgement on the Herbe matter tbh
> 
> 
> 
> if you think emmy is alien then why would you think herbe isn't town-aligned?
> 
> this doesn't make sense
> 
> *ultracool*
Click to expand...

VM I think he's _saying_ he thinks Emmy is alien 

skylar airpods dot png


----------



## Bluwiikoon

Vipera Magnifica said:


> Bluwiikoon said:
> 
> 
> 
> I can't speak for anyone else but I just trust butterfree's judgement on the Herbe matter tbh
> 
> 
> 
> if you think emmy is alien then why would you think herbe isn't town-aligned?
> 
> this doesn't make sense
> 
> *ultracool*
Click to expand...

Why wouldn't it make sense tho?


----------



## mewtini

herbe (4): keldeo, bfree, blu, kyeugh
ultracool (9): tofu, rari, herbe, mist, m+7, koko, mewtini, vm, trebek
tofu (1): emmy
emmy (1): rnp

@Mr. Ultracool claim :')


----------



## Keldeo

Mr. Ultracool, claim?


----------



## mewtini

mewtini said:


> Trebek said:
> 
> 
> 
> in the hypothetical situation that herbe is maf and you are town, would you consider his check on you as a reason to be scared about getting mafkilled? if the answer is yes, then i feel more inclined to believe herbe is town
> 
> 
> 
> precisely
Click to expand...

can someone heal me tbh, and trust me if you TR me


----------



## Bluwiikoon

Mr. Ultracooooool!


----------



## rari_teh

@Mr. Ultracool great moment to roleclaim


----------



## Keldeo

mewtini said:


> mewtini said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Trebek said:
> 
> 
> 
> in the hypothetical situation that herbe is maf and you are town, would you consider his check on you as a reason to be scared about getting mafkilled? if the answer is yes, then i feel more inclined to believe herbe is town
> 
> 
> 
> precisely
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> can someone heal me tbh, and trust me if you TR me
Click to expand...

Over Emmy? Genuine question


----------



## mewtini

Keldeo said:


> Over Emmy? Genuine question


i've got it :)


----------



## Bluwiikoon

Will explain alien stuff tomorrow if I live. Peace!


----------



## I liek Squirtles

spicy shit going down rn tbh,, this is some wild shit


----------



## Vipera Magnifica

Bluwiikoon said:


> Vipera Magnifica said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Bluwiikoon said:
> 
> 
> 
> I can't speak for anyone else but I just trust butterfree's judgement on the Herbe matter tbh
> 
> 
> 
> if you think emmy is alien then why would you think herbe isn't town-aligned?
> 
> this doesn't make sense
> 
> *ultracool*
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Why wouldn't it make sense tho?
Click to expand...

at least ONE of them has to be an actual town cop??


----------



## Trebek

mewt, apologies if my last minute epiphany screws you over, i understand why you wanted to hold off before


----------



## Keldeo

God it's 8+ against meaningless counterwagon again

I just don't think this flips mafia lol


----------



## Mr. Ultracool

I'm really, really, sorry for being this lurky, but apparently, I'm a* Gumbie Cat *who is only able to post in the thread a limited amount of times per day in exchange for being a *Thief* at night.


----------



## rari_teh

omg it’s gonna eeeeeend
good night my kittens
good luck to us all <3


----------



## mewtini

ah fuck
*herbe*


----------



## Keldeo

?? What is a thief


----------



## I liek Squirtles

*herbe*


----------



## Tangrowth

I don't know what that means.


----------



## mewtini

wait tbh. no i just am afraid tf *ultracool*


----------



## Vipera Magnifica

*herbe*


----------



## Trebek

heck idk what to do uhhh *herbe*


----------



## qenya

Keldeo said:


> Over Emmy? Genuine question


yes!!! no time to explain


----------



## mewtini

Trebek said:


> mewt, apologies if my last minute epiphany screws you over, i understand why you wanted to hold off before


if someone heals me i (and emmy) are good :)


----------



## I liek Squirtles

Googling seems to suggest they are a Flavor Cop


----------



## rari_teh

who tf is gumbie cat??


----------



## Keldeo

Is gumbie the name of a cat?

I am so confused

glgl???


----------



## Trebek

actually no. i’m not vibing *mr ultracool*


----------



## mewtini

kokorico said:


> Keldeo said:
> 
> 
> 
> Over Emmy? Genuine question
> 
> 
> 
> yes!!! no time to explain
Click to expand...

notice that i don't say 'over emmy'
i'll handle her


----------



## I liek Squirtles

Jennyanydots!


----------



## Mr. Ultracool

A thief can steal items at night, apparently, there are some around. Perhaps the Catnip?


----------



## Keldeo

I liek Squirtles said:


> Jennyanydots!


What does this mean


----------



## Tangrowth

I am likewise confused, please clarify UC?

Otherwise I'll stay with UC as my vote.


----------



## Vipera Magnifica

I liek Squirtles said:


> Jennyanydots!


that's ME


----------



## qenya

mewtini said:


> kokorico said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Keldeo said:
> 
> 
> 
> Over Emmy? Genuine question
> 
> 
> 
> yes!!! no time to explain
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> notice that i don't say 'over emmy'
> i'll handle her
Click to expand...

uh... ok, maybe I was wrong about what was going on there

please ignore me


----------



## rari_teh

gumbie cat???!?


----------



## JackPK

*The day phase is now over. Vote totals coming in a moment.*


----------



## Trebek

mobile is really stressing me out rn tbh


----------



## Mr. Ultracool

Vipera Magnifica said:


> I liek Squirtles said:
> 
> 
> 
> Jennyanydots!
> 
> 
> 
> that's ME
Click to expand...

It's me, too! What's your proposed ability`?


----------



## Vipera Magnifica

GOD DAMN IT


----------



## rari_teh

yeah i don’t vibe with this at all
who’s going to be lynched anyway? i’m 100% confused


----------



## Tofu

I don't feel good about my vote


----------



## Vipera Magnifica

me neither


----------



## Trebek

:( vibes


----------



## Mr. Ultracool

Neither do I : /


----------



## JackPK

*Active votes*
Tofu votes Mr. Ultracool (#1604)
IndigoEmmy votes Tofu (#1734)
Herbe votes Mr. Ultracool (#1886)
RedneckPhoenix votes IndigoEmmy (#1926)
Butterfree votes Herbe (#2163)
rari_teh votes Mr. Ultracool (#2186)
Bluwiikoon votes Herbe (#2207)
kyeugh votes Herbe (#2277)
Keldeo votes Herbe (#2296)
Mist1422 votes Mr. Ultracool (#2302)
M Plus 7 votes Mr. Ultracool (#2326)
Mr. Ultracool votes Herbe (#2343)
kokorico votes Mr. Ultracool (#2358)
I liek Squirtles votes Herbe (#2390)
mewtini votes Mr. Ultracool (#2392)
Vipera Magnifica votes Herbe (#2393)
Trebek votes Mr. Ultracool (#2400)



Spoiler: Full vote history



Active votes bolded. Invalid votes stricken through.

Vipera Magnifica votes kyeugh (#1270)
kyeugh votes Mr. Ultracool (#1299)
Vipera Magnifica votes Mr. Ultracool (#1326)
mewtini votes Mr. Ultracool (#1327)
mewtini unvotes (#1340)
mewtini votes kyeugh (#1357)
mewtini unvotes (#1359)
RedneckPhoenix votes kyeugh (#1453)
mewtini votes IndigoEmmy (#1472)
Trebek votes IndigoEmmy (#1473)
rari_teh votes IndigoEmmy (#1482)
Herbe votes IndigoEmmy (#1489)
Keldeo votes Mr. Ultracool (#1567)
*Tofu votes Mr. Ultracool (#1604)*
IndigoEmmy votes Mr. Ultracool (#1612)
Mr. Ultracool votes IndigoEmmy (#1613)
Herbe unvotes (#1653)
Bluwiikoon votes IndigoEmmy (#1717)
rari_teh votes Mr. Ultracool (#1730)
kyeugh votes Tofu (#1732)
*IndigoEmmy votes Tofu (#1734)*
Trebek votes Mr. Ultracool (#1736)
Bluwiikoon votes Tofu (#1747)
mewtini votes Tofu (#1797)
Trebek votes Tofu (#1876)
Mr. Ultracool unvotes (#1884)
*Herbe votes Mr. Ultracool (#1886)
RedneckPhoenix votes IndigoEmmy (#1926)*
Trebek votes Mr. Ultracool (#1927)
kyeugh votes Mr. Ultracool (#1939)
mewtini votes Mr. Ultracool (#1941)
I liek Squirtles votes Bluwiikoon (#1996)
Keldeo votes Herbe (#2056)
mewtini votes Herbe (#2059)
Trebek votes Herbe (#2084)
Bluwiikoon unvotes (#2095)
Vipera Magnifica votes Herbe (#2104)
Vipera Magnifica unvotes (#2114)
Vipera Magnifica votes Herbe (#2118)
*Butterfree votes Herbe (#2163)*
rari_teh votes mewtini (#2184)
*rari_teh votes Mr. Ultracool (#2186)
Bluwiikoon votes Herbe (#2207)*
kokorico votes Herbe (#2221)
*kyeugh votes Herbe (#2277)*
Keldeo unvotes (#2295)
*Keldeo votes Herbe (#2296)
Mist1422 votes Mr. Ultracool (#2302)
M Plus 7 votes Mr. Ultracool (#2326)*
I liek Squirtles votes Mr. Ultracool (#2329)
I liek Squirtles unvotes (#2340)
*Mr. Ultracool votes Herbe (#2343)
kokorico votes Mr. Ultracool (#2358)*
mewtini votes Mr. Ultracool (#2363)
Vipera Magnifica votes Mr. Ultracool (#2370)
Trebek votes Mr. Ultracool (#2371)
mewtini votes Herbe (#2388)
*I liek Squirtles votes Herbe (#2390)
mewtini votes Mr. Ultracool (#2392)
Vipera Magnifica votes Herbe (#2393)*
Trebek votes Herbe (#2394)
*Trebek votes Mr. Ultracool (#2400)*



*Vote totals*
Mr. Ultracool (8) (Tofu, Herbe, rari_teh, Mist1422, M Plus 7, kokorico, mewtini, Trebek)
Herbe (7) (Butterfree, Bluwiikoon, kyeugh, Keldeo, Mr. Ultracool, I liek Squirtles, Vipera Magnifica)
Tofu (1) (IndigoEmmy)
IndigoEmmy (1) (RedneckPhoenix)

If any votes are wrong or missing, you have *10 minutes* to alert me to them.


----------



## JackPK

After the cats spend most of the day unsure of what to do and without any real leads, several major claims come out in rapid fire near the end of the day, and suspicions heat up as a result. Once again, the cats come down to the wire debating back and forth between two options, but this time, when they grab *Mr. Ultracool* and toss him into the time-out basement, out of his pockets rolls a suspicious canister of catnip. Only a villain would dare use such a dastardly substance! Their daily work done, the cats disperse to their nightly routines reassured at having found and neutralized a threat.

*Mr. Ultracool is dead. He was scum.

Night Two has begun. Please submit your night actions.

Day Three will begin June 9 at 3pm EST/7pm UTC.*



Spoiler: Pings and flips



@Butterfree
@Mawile - killed N0, *not scum*
@Keldeo
@Herbe
@kyeugh
@mewtini
@Seshas - killed N1, *not scum*
@IndigoEmmy
@kokorico
@I liek Squirtles
@Trebek
@rari_teh
@myuma - killed N1, *not scum*
@M Plus 7
@Tofu
@Bluwiikoon
@Stryke - lynched D1, *not scum*
@Vipera Magnifica
@RedneckPhoenix
@Superjolt
@Mr. Ultracool - lynched D2, *scum*





Spoiler: Game summary so far



*N0
Mawile* was killed. He was *not scum*.

*D1
Stryke* was lynched. He was *not scum*.

*N1
Seshas* was killed. They were *not scum*.
*myuma* was killed. She was *not scum*.

*D2
Mr. Ultracool* was lynched. He was *scum*.


----------



## qenya

JackPK said:


> his pockets


are you _sure_ we're cats


----------



## IndigoClaudia

Bye everyone.


----------



## rari_teh

kokorico said:


> JackPK said:
> 
> 
> 
> his pockets
> 
> 
> 
> are you _sure_ we're cats
Click to expand...


----------



## Herbe

god I really gotta start fucking waking up before EoD


----------



## Novae

is night talk allowed or something


----------



## JackPK

Preferably not! But since people are just making jokes instead of doing anything game-relevant, I haven't yet felt the need to crack down on it.


----------



## JackPK

The cats wake up to find another of their number missing, and sure enough, *I liek Squirtles* is found imprisoned in the time-out basement.

*I liek Squirtles is dead. He was not scum.

Day Three has begun. You may now post and discuss who to lynch today. Abstaining (no lynching) is allowed. Night Three will begin June 12 at 3pm EST/7pm UTC.*



Spoiler: Pings and flips



@Butterfree
@Mawile - killed N0, *not scum*
@Keldeo
@Herbe
@kyeugh
@mewtini
@Seshas - killed N1, *not scum*
@IndigoEmmy
@kokorico
@I liek Squirtles - killed N2, *not scum*
@Trebek
@rari_teh
@myuma - killed N1, *not scum*
@M Plus 7
@Tofu
@Bluwiikoon
@Stryke - lynched D1, *not scum*
@Vipera Magnifica
@RedneckPhoenix
@Mist1422
@Mr. Ultracool - lynched D2, *scum*





Spoiler: Game summary so far



*N0
Mawile* was killed. He was *not scum*.

*D1
Stryke* was lynched. He was *not scum*.

*N1
Seshas* was killed. They were *not scum*.
*myuma* was killed. She was *not scum*.

*D2
Mr. Ultracool* was lynched. He was *scum*.

*N2
I liek Squirtles* was killed. He was *not scum*.


----------



## Bluwiikoon

Yo what up


----------



## Bluwiikoon

So it appears the mafia kill failed, but the vig kill went through?


----------



## Trebek




----------



## rari_teh

no mafia kill? wut


----------



## Bluwiikoon

Great work, healers and or bodyguards!! You did it! :D


----------



## Vipera Magnifica

Bluwiikoon said:


> So it appears the mafia kill failed, but the vig kill went through?


That seems to be what the flavor text would imply


----------



## Trebek

rari_teh said:


> no mafia kill? wut





mewtini said:


> Keldeo said:
> 
> 
> 
> Over Emmy? Genuine question
> 
> 
> 
> i've got it :)
Click to expand...

what a power move


----------



## Bluwiikoon

True to my word, here's what was happening with the alien spec:

I wanted to attempt to protect Emmy (who seems very likely to be our cop) by insisting that she's the alien. That's all!


----------



## rari_teh

talking about @IndigoEmmy, what was your n2 read?


----------



## qenya

so... I guess we're assuming that a doctor successfully protected the mafia's target? who was presumably emmy?


----------



## kyeugh

wait why does the flavor imply a vig kill


----------



## rari_teh

Bluwiikoon said:


> True to my word, here's what was happening with the alien spec:
> 
> I wanted to attempt to protect Emmy (who seems very likely to be our cop) by insisting that she's the alien. That's all!


funnily (?) enough, the lack of mafia kill could mean either that our protective roles did a stellar job or that the mafia targetted an alien


----------



## mewtini

HELL YEAHHHHHH i did it boys


----------



## Bluwiikoon

Either Emmy or mewtini got protected, since it seems mewtini has a protective role :D


----------



## rari_teh

kyeugh said:


> wait why does the flavor imply a vig kill


ils went to the basement instead of disappearing mysteriously


----------



## mewtini

love being alive. yw emmy


----------



## qenya

kyeugh said:


> wait why does the flavor imply a vig kill


ILS was put in the "time out basement", like the lynch targets, instead of disappearing


----------



## Vipera Magnifica

kyeugh said:


> wait why does the flavor imply a vig kill


the time-out basement is where cats go who are offed by the town


----------



## Trebek

so maybe not vig, but more likely than not its a non-maf kill


----------



## Tofu

I'm surprised at ils being town-aligned, since looking through the ISO he was defending Ultracool a little.


----------



## mewtini

@anon doctor i fuckin love you
anyway i don't think its necessarily vig tbh.
calming down now .. this is awkward because i was about to make a case against ILS ...


----------



## Bluwiikoon

So, would toDay's agenda be analysing people who were reluctant to vote Ultracool throughout the thread? :o


----------



## mewtini

lol tofu ninja'd me
i was gonna come in and vote him imjmediately


----------



## mewtini

Bluwiikoon said:


> So, would toDay's agenda be analysing people who were reluctant to vote Ultracool throughout the thread? :o


yeah, with the big caveat that he was a lurker and i think some people's reluctance was more representative of being afraid of the 'easy' lynch


----------



## Trebek

mewtini said:


> lol tofu ninja'd me
> i was gonna come in and vote him imjmediately


yeah this is an interesting position now lmao


----------



## Herbe

Oh my god you are fucking KIDDING me. 

I targeted ILS tonight because I had a light scumread on him and was hoping, praying to find mafia, but of course I wake up and he's fuckin dead by vig. 

At least we know we have a cool active doc.


----------



## Trebek

Do we think there is merit in looking at people whos vote shifted from UC to herbe last minute in an attempt to flip the vote? or can we chalk that up to instinctual reactions to the roleclaim


----------



## Vipera Magnifica

mewtini said:


> @anon doctor i fuckin love you
> anyway i don't think its necessarily vig tbh.
> calming down now .. this is awkward because i was about to make a case against ILS ...


with his behavior at EOD i would have immediately done the same


----------



## rari_teh

mewtini said:


> lol tofu ninja'd me
> i was gonna come in and vote him imjmediately


thanks, vig, for clearing that one up before us ig :v


----------



## Herbe

Also, hi, guys, turns out everyone wanted me dead yesterday and I slept right through it? What was that all about?
Gimme a while and I'll gather my thoughts on that whole situation.


----------



## mewtini

yeah but tbh that is why i was going to complain about ILS. F


----------



## mewtini

btw i feel like this situation locks herbe as town.


----------



## rari_teh

Herbe said:


> Oh my god you are fucking KIDDING me.
> 
> I targeted ILS tonight because I had a light scumread on him and was hoping, praying to find mafia, but of course I wake up and he's fuckin dead by vig.
> 
> At least we know we have a cool active doc.


what was his role?


----------



## Bluwiikoon

Sorry I ended up being real suspicious yesterday btw, but I hope you'll forgive me and accept my explanation ;o; I'm all about protecting the detective!


----------



## mewtini

Herbe said:


> I targeted ILS tonight because I had a light scumread on him and was hoping, praying to find mafia, but of course I wake up and he's fuckin dead by vig.


by night action order, did he die before you got his role?


----------



## Trebek

mewtini said:


> btw i feel like this situation locks herbe as town.


inclined to agree with this, especially given the last minute realization from EoD


----------



## mewtini

Bluwiikoon said:


> Sorry I ended up being real suspicious yesterday btw, but I hope you'll forgive me and accept my explanation ;o; I'm all about protecting the detective!


you are good tbh! so sorry i didn't catch on earlier, it was a good take


----------



## Vipera Magnifica

mewtini said:


> btw i feel like this situation locks herbe as town.


but _does _it though_?_


----------



## Tofu

Vipera Magnifica said:


> mewtini said:
> 
> 
> 
> @anon doctor i fuckin love you
> anyway i don't think its necessarily vig tbh.
> calming down now .. this is awkward because i was about to make a case against ILS ...
> 
> 
> 
> with his behavior at EOD i would have immediately done the same
Click to expand...

Yeah, offering up a role name for Ultracool's generic roleclaim looked really odd to me.


----------



## mewtini

also, i think this means there is no mafia roleblocker
i wrote a whole damn essay on sunday night because i panicked and was like what if i get roleblocked and emmy dies anyway


----------



## Trebek

mewtini said:


> Bluwiikoon said:
> 
> 
> 
> Sorry I ended up being real suspicious yesterday btw, but I hope you'll forgive me and accept my explanation ;o; I'm all about protecting the detective!
> 
> 
> 
> you are good tbh! so sorry i didn't catch on earlier, it was a good take
Click to expand...

yeah, i tinfoilhatted the hell out of that without considering the more obvious conclusion


----------



## mewtini

Vipera Magnifica said:


> but _does _it though_?_


yes tbh


----------



## Bluwiikoon

Full disclosure I was willing to be bait if it meant Emmy could live for another day. She's important now!!


----------



## Herbe

rari_teh said:


> Herbe said:
> 
> 
> 
> Oh my god you are fucking KIDDING me.
> 
> I targeted ILS tonight because I had a light scumread on him and was hoping, praying to find mafia, but of course I wake up and he's fuckin dead by vig.
> 
> At least we know we have a cool active doc.
> 
> 
> 
> what was his role?
Click to expand...

Bit sus on this cause I specifically am not going to reveal his role. Revealing the role of dead players only helps mafia figure out who's left, I don't see a situation where this helps town.
I got the result before he died I guess. Maybe I just went to talk to him in time out.


----------



## Herbe

Does anyone want to see the notes I frantically typed up after waking up post-eod and trying to figure out what the hell was going on/who to target

After I eat an actual meal today I'll go back and make a longpost about yesterday


----------



## Vipera Magnifica

mewtini said:


> Vipera Magnifica said:
> 
> 
> 
> but _does _it though_?_
> 
> 
> 
> yes tbh
Click to expand...

how so


----------



## Bluwiikoon

Heeeerbe!!! Eat some food! ENGAGE NUTRIENCE


----------



## qenya

mewtini said:


> Vipera Magnifica said:
> 
> 
> 
> but _does _it though_?_
> 
> 
> 
> yes tbh
Click to expand...

can you please explain this for us dimwitted mortals?


----------



## mewtini

Vipera Magnifica said:


> how so


i don't really want to dredge it back up/draw attention to it. read through the last bit of EoD


----------



## Tofu

mewtini said:


> Vipera Magnifica said:
> 
> 
> 
> how so
> 
> 
> 
> i don't really want to dredge it back up/draw attention to it. read through the last bit of EoD
Click to expand...

Please dredge


----------



## Tofu

for reasons


----------



## rari_teh

Herbe said:


> Bit sus on this cause I specifically am not going to reveal his role. Revealing the role of dead players only helps mafia figure out who's left, I don't see a situation where this helps town.


eh, i asked bc i wanted to know what we lost with his death, but you’re right tbh


----------



## Trebek

ftr, the dredging is risky also for reasons


----------



## Vipera Magnifica

i still have no idea what mewtini is talking about


----------



## qenya

Vipera Magnifica said:


> i still have no idea what mewtini is talking about


----------



## mewtini

it's within the last three pages of EoD, i promise, but tbh i'm just going to ask for trust because i don't want to quote/directly pull it up. Risk


----------



## Trebek

mindmelding with mewt on this one tbh


----------



## rari_teh

yeah I have to agree with mewt/Trebek on this one


----------



## mewtini

lmfao guys let's just form a commune <3


----------



## Vipera Magnifica




----------



## mewtini

mewtini said:


> anyway i don't think its necessarily vig tbh.


i take this back tbh
it makes so much sense that a vig would go for ILS given that we apparently all thought he was sus as hell


----------



## mewtini

sorry vm tbh.
btw if anyone quotes the post i'm referring to, i'll automatically scumread you. That's a Promise!


----------



## Vipera Magnifica

mewtini said:


> mewtini said:
> 
> 
> 
> anyway i don't think its necessarily vig tbh.
> 
> 
> 
> i take this back tbh
> it makes so much sense that a vig would go for ILS given that we apparently all thought he was sus as hell
Click to expand...

i hypovigged ILS last night


----------



## Trebek

mewtini said:


> sorry vm tbh.
> btw if anyone quotes the post i'm referring to, i'll automatically scumread you. That's a Promise!


*slowly hits backspace button*
jkjk i would never do that


----------



## Tofu

I think I found the post(s) in question, Mewt, but I still don't think it necessarily means anything...


----------



## mewtini

i respectfully disagree
seshas was a pretty undesirable nightkill imo


----------



## Vipera Magnifica

do you think maybe the healer did the coinflip between Emmy/Herbe and the mafia just went for it anyway?


----------



## mewtini

last night? it's possible mafia might've gone for me hoping that the other healer didn't trust me (and instead targeted emmy) even though that's kind of a dumb gamble


----------



## mewtini

if we assume for sure that ILS isn't a vig kill
that or they hit an alien. LMAO


----------



## Trebek

mewtini said:


> if we assume for sure that ILS isn't a vig kill
> that or they hit an alien. LMAO


oof if thats the case


----------



## Bluwiikoon

I trust mewtini! :D


----------



## Bluwiikoon

I hope Emmy didn't just assume that she would perish and actually sent in a check ;o;


----------



## mewtini

Bluwiikoon said:


> I trust mewtini! :D


yeah i trust you too tbh tbh. i was just stupid and didn't realize you were trying to flood the thread with alienchat


----------



## Tofu

Did I miss something where people think there are two town-aligned healers?


----------



## Bluwiikoon

Just wait until you hear about the night clowns!


----------



## qenya

still clueless, I'm afraid

I see several interesting things, but I don't get how any of them clear herbe

oh well, it would be kinda stupid to mistrust you given you've literally been cleared by a cop


----------



## Tofu

And why would you flaunt it


----------



## mewtini

i'm not 100% healer. @Herbe can confirm. i just got lucky and could swing it last night


----------



## mewtini

herbe is only a wolf if this was a huge and weird long con


----------



## mewtini

so for that reason
i think there has to be another doc
having .5 of a doc is a little silly


----------



## Tofu

A bunch of posts happened above my last post, sorry. I was saying, why would mewt want to publicly claim to be a healer?


----------



## mewtini

because i was trying to stay alive but also keep emmy alive :p


----------



## Vipera Magnifica

mewtini said:


> because i was trying to stay alive but also keep emmy alive :p


why were you saying you didn't want to dredge up stuff if you were just going to say it anyway

i am so lost


----------



## mewtini

sorry VERY adrenaline-ridden today because i thought i was going to be dead hahaha

even if i got killed emmy would stay alive, because i was protecting her. so i figured i'd hail mary, where mary = the other doc that i wasn't sure existed at the time
also i didn't expect to have to claim right then either but i wanted herbe alive when i realized ultracool was probably maf and that herbe might not be


----------



## mewtini

Vipera Magnifica said:


> mewtini said:
> 
> 
> 
> because i was trying to stay alive but also keep emmy alive :p
> 
> 
> 
> why were you saying you didn't want to dredge up stuff if you were just going to say it anyway
> 
> i am so lost
Click to expand...

i realized that staying 100% cryptic would just stall discussion lol.


----------



## Bluwiikoon

Thank you mewtini for your hard work! :D I hope we hear from Emmy real soon


----------



## mewtini

thank you king. i was so terrified.
because right after the fact i realized that if a mafia roleblocker existed, emmy would probably die if the 2nd healer followed my lead


----------



## mewtini

mewtini said:


> i realized that staying 100% cryptic would just stall discussion lol.


i would still appreciate it if others assist in keeping things a bit buried, though. i hope you understand


----------



## Bluwiikoon

One heck of a scary night!!! It is extremely good that a mafia kill got either blocked or healed though :D A success!!!


----------



## Vipera Magnifica

it's possible the roleblocker blocked Emmy, but let's wait and see


----------



## mewtini

oh i forgot about that. that is true ...
plot twist """thief""" = roleblocker >:3 fingers crossed


----------



## Vipera Magnifica

mewtini said:


> oh i forgot about that. that is true ...
> plot twist """thief""" = roleblocker >:3 fingers crossed


god i hope so


----------



## mewtini

actually no tbh. why would the roleblocker bother doing that when they could block me and have her just die


----------



## Bluwiikoon

My face if Emmy got blocked


----------



## mewtini

ohhhh wait, what you describe is the safer play. they were probably scared she'd get 2 heals. gotcha


----------



## Vipera Magnifica

mewtini said:


> actually no tbh. why would the roleblocker bother doing that when they could block me and have her just die


because there's another healer?


----------



## mewtini

i was thinking that since i was getting heavily TRed that mafia would be forced to assume that the healer would target me


----------



## Vipera Magnifica

the healer was asked to coinflip between Emmy/Herbe, i don't know what page it was on, but that would have been the correct play


----------



## Vipera Magnifica

oh wait no that was Herbe who asked for that lol


----------



## qenya

so, anyway, I did a thing:



Spoiler



Vipera Magnifica votes kyeugh (#1270)
kyeugh votes Mr. Ultracool (#1299)
Vipera Magnifica votes Mr. Ultracool (#1326)
mewtini votes Mr. Ultracool (#1327)
mewtini unvotes (#1340)
mewtini votes kyeugh (#1357)
mewtini unvotes (#1359)
RedneckPhoenix votes kyeugh (#1453)
mewtini votes IndigoEmmy (#1472)
Trebek votes IndigoEmmy (#1473)
rari_teh votes IndigoEmmy (#1482)
Herbe votes IndigoEmmy (#1489)
Keldeo votes Mr. Ultracool (#1567)
*Tofu votes Mr. Ultracool (#1604)*
IndigoEmmy votes Mr. Ultracool (#1612)
Mr. Ultracool votes IndigoEmmy (#1613)
Herbe unvotes (#1653)
Bluwiikoon votes IndigoEmmy (#1717)
rari_teh votes Mr. Ultracool (#1730)
kyeugh votes Tofu (#1732)
*IndigoEmmy votes Tofu (#1734)*
Trebek votes Mr. Ultracool (#1736)
Bluwiikoon votes Tofu (#1747)
mewtini votes Tofu (#1797)
Trebek votes Tofu (#1876)
Mr. Ultracool unvotes (#1884)
*Herbe votes Mr. Ultracool (#1886)
RedneckPhoenix votes IndigoEmmy (#1926)*
Trebek votes Mr. Ultracool (#1927)
kyeugh votes Mr. Ultracool (#1939)
mewtini votes Mr. Ultracool (#1941)
I liek Squirtles votes Bluwiikoon (#1996)
Keldeo votes Herbe (#2056)
mewtini votes Herbe (#2059)
Trebek votes Herbe (#2084)
Bluwiikoon unvotes (#2095)
Vipera Magnifica votes Herbe (#2104)
Vipera Magnifica unvotes (#2114)
Vipera Magnifica votes Herbe (#2118)
*Butterfree votes Herbe (#2163)*
rari_teh votes mewtini (#2184)
*rari_teh votes Mr. Ultracool (#2186)
Bluwiikoon votes Herbe (#2207)*
kokorico votes Herbe (#2221)
*kyeugh votes Herbe (#2277)*
Keldeo unvotes (#2295)
*Keldeo votes Herbe (#2296)
Mist1422 votes Mr. Ultracool (#2302)
M Plus 7 votes Mr. Ultracool (#2326)*
I liek Squirtles votes Mr. Ultracool (#2329)
I liek Squirtles unvotes (#2340)
*Mr. Ultracool votes Herbe (#2343)
kokorico votes Mr. Ultracool (#2358)*
mewtini votes Mr. Ultracool (#2363)
Vipera Magnifica votes Mr. Ultracool (#2370)
Trebek votes Mr. Ultracool (#2371)
mewtini votes Herbe (#2388)
*I liek Squirtles votes Herbe (#2390)
mewtini votes Mr. Ultracool (#2392)
Vipera Magnifica votes Herbe (#2393)*
Trebek votes Herbe (#2394)
*Trebek votes Mr. Ultracool (#2400)*



my thoughts are that neither ILS nor VM look great from this, since they switched to Herbe just before EoD. so I totally get mewt's plan to look closely at ils today... even though obviously it didn't work out

VM, what was your reasoning behind switching to Herbe?

btw, since we're talking about eod, figured I'd quickly explain this:


kokorico said:


> yes!!! no time to explain


I had recently been rereading d1 and somehow had managed to convince myself that mewt was one half of a lover pair

obviously I no longer think this


----------



## mewtini

they were but also i think that it's more likely they would've been between me and emmy when the coinflip remark became part of the argument for herbe being a wolf

that post of herbe's came way before he was getting sussed


----------



## mewtini

kokorico said:


> I had recently been rereading d1 and somehow had managed to convince myself that mewt was one half of a lover pair


koko we are lovers in my heart for your attempt to protect me <333


----------



## Bluwiikoon

So for mechanically cleared town we have uhhhh IndigoEmmy, mewtini, Butterfree and Herbe, right?


----------



## mewtini

herbe isn't mech clear i think, i just very strongly believe it and will not really be reassessing it unless something really weird happens


----------



## Herbe

how do i access my thread bookmarks :(


----------



## Herbe

Me asking for a coinflip heal was a) to reduce the chance mafia would go for either one of us and b) assuming that rolecop and cop were equally powerful.


----------



## mewtini

Herbe said:


> how do i access my thread bookmarks :(


----------



## Vipera Magnifica

kokorico said:


> VM, what was your reasoning behind switching to Herbe?


iirc i was panic flipping between both of them and wanted to vote ultracool after he claimed the same cat as me last second but votes closed right before i could do that


----------



## mewtini

yeah btw i think VM is pretty much clear too given that counterclaim lmao.


----------



## Bluwiikoon

Spoiler: Current confirmed flips



*Butterfree
IndigoEmmy
Herbe
mewtini
Mawile - killed N0, not scum*
*Stryke - lynched D1, not scum
Seshas - killed N1, not scum
myuma - killed N1, not scum*
*I liek Squirtles - killed N2, not scum

Mr. Ultracool - lynched D2, scum 

Unresolved:*
Keldeo
kyeugh
kokorico
Trebek
rari_teh
M Plus 7
Tofu
Bluwiikoon
Vipera Magnifica
RedneckPhoenix
Mist1422


----------



## Trebek

mewtini said:


> sorry VERY adrenaline-ridden today because i thought i was going to be dead hahaha


i wouldve felt so bad if i got you killed


----------



## Vipera Magnifica

eeeeemmmmmmmyyyyyyyyyy


----------



## Herbe

Take a look for just one moment at the wagon on me: *Butterfree*, Bluwiikoon, kyeugh, Keldeo, *Mr. Ultracool*, I liek Squirtles, Vipera Magnifica
I typed out a whole notes thing that landed me to inspect ILS tonight cause I was pretty sure there's a >50% chance there's a second wolf on the wagon.

Bluwiikoon - Hmmmmmmmmm........ I'm just not sure. Sure, decoying for emmy was good, but isn't flooding chat with stuff that's not wolfhunting/derailey stuff a scum tactic?
kyeugh - I don't have a genuine scumread on her but I wouldn't put her in towncore. ppl rand mafia twice in a row sometimes, it's not implausible.
ILS - rest in peace king. my notes also looked at his vote on Blu and said if he's scum, blu probably isn't, but that's out the window. I totally scumread him last night :/
Vipera Magnifica - the "i regret my vote" after votes closed backs up his statement i think. i'll call it at town for now, everything considered.

_Keldeo_ - keldeo stands out to me here. Keldeo is a good player. Why did he lock on to me so quick? why did he think he was so airtight on me? i just think he's better as town than this.

*keldeo,* keldeo, what are your thoughts today, pal?

(the MU power of just going and fuckin voting is kicking into my playstyle)


----------



## mewtini

so ... 21 players, 6 scum, 15 town initially --> 5 scum/10 town (+3rd party???) remaining

rn my head is at

*towncore (for mech or for Reasons):* mewt, emmy, bfree, skylar, rari, herbe (unless he thought things out vvv well)
*town, but not quite core: *VM (unless he last-minute counterclaimed jennyanydots to clear himself lol), blu (unless the alien thing was SUPER performative), trebek, rnp, kokorico
*hmmmmmm: *keldeo, mist, tofu, m+7

not bad honestly


----------



## mewtini

*keldeo* tbh


----------



## mewtini

WTF herbe beat me
i must wait 7 sec


----------



## Herbe

mewtini said:


> so ... 21 players, 6 scum, 15 town initially --> 5 scum/10 town (+3rd party???) remaining
> 
> rn my head is at
> 
> *towncore (for mech or for Reasons):* mewt, emmy, bfree, skylar, rari, herbe (unless he thought things out vvv well)
> *town, but not quite core: *VM (unless he last-minute counterclaimed jennyanydots to clear himself lol), blu (unless the alien thing was SUPER performative), trebek, rnp, kokorico
> *hmmmmmm: *keldeo, mist, tofu, m+7
> 
> not bad honestly


mewt, sell me on the kyeugh towncore read?


----------



## mewtini

mewtini said:


> *keldeo* tbh


this is not 100% genuine btw. but good place to start outside of my very extensive town group



Herbe said:


> mewt, sell me on the kyeugh towncore read?


reasons that i cant really elaborate on, i don't blame you for not putting her in towncore


----------



## IndigoClaudia

Am i actualy still alive?


----------



## mewtini

IndigoEmmy said:


> Am i actualy still alive?


it's like christmas morning!
who'd you check?


----------



## IndigoClaudia

mewtini said:


> IndigoEmmy said:
> 
> 
> 
> Am i actualy still alive?
> 
> 
> 
> it's like christmas morning!
> who'd you check?
Click to expand...

Kyeugh... i couldn't get a result. :C suspicious...


----------



## Vipera Magnifica

IndigoEmmy said:


> mewtini said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> IndigoEmmy said:
> 
> 
> 
> Am i actualy still alive?
> 
> 
> 
> it's like christmas morning!
> who'd you check?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Kyeugh... i couldn't get a result. :C suspicious...
Click to expand...

I knew it... Emmy was probably blocked


----------



## IndigoClaudia

mewtini said:


> it's like christmas morning!


Christmas morning but like ominous because it involves a lot more death than normal Christmas.


----------



## Herbe

Here's the ult wagon.* Mr. Ultracool *(8) (Tofu, *Herbe*, rari_teh, Mist1422, M Plus 7, kokorico, *mewtini*, Trebek) 
this wagon seems... odd to me? why isn't more towncore here? all these other people are in my "huh? sure" tier tbh

emmy probably got blocked..... Feck. Cause it could totally frame kyeugh.


----------



## mewtini

ftr rari is also towncore for me for reasons

rip for emmy getting roleblocked


----------



## IndigoClaudia

I mean... maybe you just can't check kyeugh because she's like... ultramafia. It's too soon to vote but like. I'm leaning towards her maybe?


----------



## Vipera Magnifica

IndigoEmmy said:


> mewtini said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> IndigoEmmy said:
> 
> 
> 
> Am i actualy still alive?
> 
> 
> 
> it's like christmas morning!
> who'd you check?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Kyeugh... i couldn't get a result. :C suspicious...
Click to expand...

Would you mind sharing why you chose kyeugh to inspect?


----------



## mewtini

it's pretty def a roleblock honestly lol. if she were ultramafia it would be green (godfather) :p

i think trebek was really towny and wouldn't have had to say [redacted post] as mafia, that was pretty clearly just him trying to vote for the right person


----------



## mewtini

mewtini said:


> be green (godfather) :p


as in your result would have been town


----------



## mewtini

Herbe said:


> this wagon seems... odd to me? why isn't more towncore here? all these other people are in my "huh? sure" tier tbh


some bussing probably


----------



## IndigoClaudia

Vipera Magnifica said:


> IndigoEmmy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> mewtini said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> IndigoEmmy said:
> 
> 
> 
> Am i actualy still alive?
> 
> 
> 
> it's like christmas morning!
> who'd you check?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Kyeugh... i couldn't get a result. :C suspicious...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Would you mind sharing why you chose kyeugh to inspect?
Click to expand...

Cause i thot she was a bit suspicious.


----------



## rari_teh

mewtini said:


> *town, but not quite core: *VM (unless he last-minute counterclaimed jennyanydots to clear himself lol)


this hypothesis would only work if either a) mafia!vm knows that jennyanydots is dead fsr or b) jennyanydots is mafia, which i’m not particularly inclined to believe tbh
i guess that puts vm in a situation where there’s almost no way he’s mafia imho



mewtini said:


> *hmmmmmm: *keldeo, mist, tofu, m+7


would you mind explaining your m+7 thoughts? i’m kinda surprised to see him this far low tbh


----------



## mewtini

yeah to be clear i'm pretty damn sure VM is town
i don't think part (b) really matters though. i think any cat can be of any alignment, other than macavity himself

tbqh, i think m+7 has been pretty neutral-feeling to me lately even though i liked his initial posts. if i were a bit more stringent with my list i'd probably move koko/rnp down to hmmmm but koko making the remark about thinking i was a lover-type role warmed my heart

and trebek would probably stay in the town, but not core bracket


----------



## mewtini

basically it's not me sussing m+7. but he falls below other players for me


----------



## mewtini

if i'm wrong about someone in my towncore it's probably butterfree
but i feel pretty good rn


----------



## IndigoClaudia

I now have learned over 30 logical fallacies which may actually be useful in mafia. Bring it on, mafia!


----------



## Herbe

mewtini said:


> if i'm wrong about someone in my towncore it's probably butterfree
> but i feel pretty good rn


dude


----------



## Herbe

if i'm also in towncore i cleared her mechanically and you have like -2 reason to mistrust butterfree


----------



## mewtini

omg lmao
yes i forgot. i take it back


----------



## Vipera Magnifica

Dark Fishing Brothers... they will fish up... your _death_


----------



## rari_teh

Vipera Magnifica said:


> Dark Fishing Brothers... they will fish up... your _death_


smells fishy, i dare to say


----------



## mewtini

rari is kicked out of my towncore


----------



## Trebek

Vipera Magnifica said:


> Dark Fishing Brothers... they will fish up... your _death_


fishin for catnip


----------



## mewtini

kokorico said:


> I had recently been rereading d1 and somehow had managed to convince myself that mewt was one half of a lover pair


wait i wanna know who


----------



## mewtini

was it with rari tbh lmao


----------



## qenya

how the hell did you know that


----------



## mewtini

i didn't want to do this, but seeing as i am about to die, i have no choice but to claim: i am *The Best Mafia Player, and Person, Alive*. my power is *Knowing What Anyone Is Thinking, About Anything, at All Times*.

(it's just that rari and i keep getting associated inthread tbh.)


----------



## Trebek

mewt we need more mech clear than that...

what am i thinking about right now


----------



## mewtini

how i am the best mafia player, and person, alive?


----------



## Trebek

aight, mewt is mechcleared


----------



## qenya

d'aww


----------



## mewtini

don't get me wrong tbh. rari and i are definitely lovers. just not technically.


----------



## rari_teh

i did some more vote history graphs during the night and i almost forgot to post, so here they are
joke votes (such as qva voting for herself D1) are left out for clarity’s sake



Spoiler: D1 vote history












Spoiler: D1 vote history (cropped to the beginning of the main wagons’ formation)












Spoiler: D2 vote history










it’s interesting to see how there were visibly many more votes D2 than D1
also interesting how both Days experienced their share of last-minute vote madness


----------



## Trebek

i was gonna point out the large UC spike at around 1900 as maybe a bus, but then i checked and it was me, mewt, and kyeugh lmao


----------



## kyeugh

mewtini said:


> reasons that i cant really elaborate on, i don't blame you for not putting her in towncore


 well i do. smh my head come on man


IndigoEmmy said:


> Kyeugh... i couldn't get a result. :C suspicious...




i know this doesn't mean much but i would have definitely switched to ultracool if i was around at eod yesterday because lol the post restriction claim.


----------



## mewtini

i literally lol'd seeing that emmypost because i realized it was tvtropes bodyswapping PTSD


----------



## Butterfree

Hmmmmrrrrghhh. Where my head is at right now is a stubborn contrarianness. I'm still kind of tunneled on Herbe because I was so sure I was on to something yesterday damn it and then it didn't actually resolve. >:/ I know what mewtini is talking about but I'm not 100% convinced that actually clears him? Like, are there not other explanations for the thing? Hoooowever, I do admit it doesn't seem terribly likely that we had wagons on two mafia members. If we _did_, there's no way the mafia didn't attempt to get another wagon off the ground - the only one that could even _potentially_ fit the bill there is Tofu, started by kyeugh. Which did admittedly get several votes very suddenly, but then kind of died off when the Herbe wagon took off... which is probably another hint that Herbe was a town wagon being partially pushed by the mafia to counter Ultracool. Mrrrgh. But my tunnel's so warm and comfortable! >:(

My brain made up this whole tinfoil theory reading the end of day about why VM didn't _actually_ vote for Ultracool when he counterclaimed, where VM's mafia and pretended to counterclaim for town cred, but no, when I type that out it doesn't actually make any sense.

I feel bad suspecting Bluwii for following _me_ in voting for Herbe, but he went from voting Emmy to Tofu to Herbe (all the counterwagons to Ultracool one after another), and justifying a vote for the town wagon over the mafia wagon on the basis that you're just following someone in towncore is pretty convenient, and it's true that making a big show of how you're trying to protect the doctor with this big flashy speculation gambit isn't necessarily _actually_ towny. I'd have to have another look at his posts, buuuut it's a plausible lead.

However, Trebek _also_ moved from IndigoEmmy to Tofu to Herbe, though with stops on Ultracool between each, and moved back and forth between Herbe and Ultracool last minute. Just looking at the vote progression, that could be a thing of trying to seem willing to lynch Ultracool while actually jumping ship to any other viable wagon that comes along? Again, though, would have to actually read to see how much sense those votes make in context. I promise I will Actually go read Trebek this time.

Keldeo definitely stands out for starting the Herbe wagon. Was on Ultracool for much of the day, but this could easily be distancing. I continue to be exceedingly wary of Keldeo's wolf game. I'm not sure I'd get all that much out of reading his ISO because I'm sure he'll sound very reasonable and towny about everything and then he'll smilingly stab us all in the back because that is what he does, but maybe if I have time after Trebek and Bluwii?

kyeugh, meanwhile, started the Tofu wagon and ended on Herbe, and had that post on D1 where she wanted to remove the Ultracool wagon from consideration, so I'm definitely interested in rereading her too.

Mist hasn't been much of a presence, but _only_ voted for Ultracool yesterday, so definitely seems less likely to be mafia.

All in all, I have a lot of reading to do. Öööörgh.


----------



## rari_teh

Butterfree said:


> However, Trebek _also_ moved from IndigoEmmy to Tofu to Herbe, though with stops on Ultracool between each, and moved back and forth between Herbe and Ultracool last minute. Just looking at the vote progression, that could be a thing of trying to seem willing to lynch Ultracool while actually jumping ship to any other viable wagon that comes along? Again, though, would have to actually read to see how much sense those votes make in context. I promise I will Actually go read Trebek this time.


trebek’s last vote was what ultimately tipped the scale and sent him to the basement, so if anything this only makes him look townier tbh


----------



## Novae

note to self: there is indeed a multiquote function so you can use it to do VCA once your wifi comes back


----------



## rari_teh

sorry for the possibly stupid question, but does VCA stand for?


----------



## mewtini

vote count analysis uwu


----------



## Butterfree

rari_teh said:


> Butterfree said:
> 
> 
> 
> However, Trebek _also_ moved from IndigoEmmy to Tofu to Herbe, though with stops on Ultracool between each, and moved back and forth between Herbe and Ultracool last minute. Just looking at the vote progression, that could be a thing of trying to seem willing to lynch Ultracool while actually jumping ship to any other viable wagon that comes along? Again, though, would have to actually read to see how much sense those votes make in context. I promise I will Actually go read Trebek this time.
> 
> 
> 
> trebek’s last vote was what ultimately tipped the scale and sent him to the basement, so if anything this only makes him look townier tbh
Click to expand...

Ohhh, was it! Good point. Likely not Trebek, then. :P


----------



## Bluwiikoon

If it helps, my vote on Tofu yesterDay was to add pressure because we were trying to see how they'd react to a bit of pushing 

I prooobably need to do more active playing? I hate to say it, but I just find it easier trying to come up with things based on other peoples' thoughts and feedback  After a certain amount of analysis my brain just forgets how to process words. Thinking... is hard!

Quarantine is ass for many reasons but I also don't appreciate it halting the progress on my ADHD therapy


----------



## Trebek

Butterfree said:


> rari_teh said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Butterfree said:
> 
> 
> 
> However, Trebek _also_ moved from IndigoEmmy to Tofu to Herbe, though with stops on Ultracool between each, and moved back and forth between Herbe and Ultracool last minute. Just looking at the vote progression, that could be a thing of trying to seem willing to lynch Ultracool while actually jumping ship to any other viable wagon that comes along? Again, though, would have to actually read to see how much sense those votes make in context. I promise I will Actually go read Trebek this time.
> 
> 
> 
> trebek’s last vote was what ultimately tipped the scale and sent him to the basement, so if anything this only makes him look townier tbh
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Ohhh, was it! Good point. Likely not Trebek, then. :P
Click to expand...

for context about my votes, i spend most of yesterday suspicious of UC because of his posting during emmy's claiming shenanigans, but was also thinking that just having my vote on him the whole day would accomplish anything: the emmy and tofu votes were mainly for science. I was admittedly a little more sold on the herbe train, but reneged on that after [redacted]


----------



## Trebek

Bluwiikoon said:


> I hate to say it, but I just find it easier trying to come up with things based on other peoples' thoughts and feedback


this was totally where i was during D1 discussion, lol. just glad that theres a bit more mechanical stuff to analyze now


----------



## Trebek

kyeugh said:


> i wish my scummates rnp and ultracool good luck!


----------



## rari_teh




----------



## mewtini

guys, hot take. what if the ultracool wagon got messed up because he's outgroup mafia lol.


----------



## mewtini

bussing also still possible but that 8/2 split from earlier was ... something ...


----------



## Trebek

that is actually a possible take tbh

also i posted that meme on mobile and just got back on computer and let me just formally apologize for how big that image is


----------



## Herbe

when will mr. keldeo return to grace us with his presence....


----------



## mewtini

hi king herbe, my FAVORITE wagonmate


----------



## rari_teh

keldeoooo.png


----------



## Trebek

keldeo.mp4


----------



## Keldeo

ilu all but I really can't be here until tomorrow night, sorry! >_>

@Eifie please check off the "Keldeo defends a wolf for like no reason seriously he really wasn't all that towny lol" square on your bingo card thanks


----------



## qenya

mewtini said:


> guys, hot take. what if the ultracool wagon got messed up because he's outgroup mafia lol.


gosh that certainly is a Theory

if he was outgroup then I can certainly empathise with the "aaaaa I have no idea what to do" that probably resulted in his lurking

if true, I suppose we should be suspicious of anyone who parked on him early and didn't switch to Herbe later? that's, um... Tofu? and also Herbe himself ig


----------



## qenya

kokorico said:


> if true, I suppose we should be suspicious of anyone who parked on him early and didn't switch to Herbe later? that's, um... Tofu? and also Herbe himself ig


Mist, M+7 and Trebek wouldn't look great either

in fact it would completely reverse all my original conclusions, ugh

extremely tinfoil: herbe is actually ingroup mafia. the mafia didn't try to push for a third wagon because they thought ultracool was town.
(this requires him to be intentionally pocketing mewt fsr, hence the "secret tell", but... I mean, don't we all secretly want to pocket mewt?)


----------



## qenya

regarding emmy's block, I don't think we can treat it as alignment-indicative on kyeugh as has been suggested

emmy didn't say anything in-thread about who she was going to target (hell, she was certain she was going to die), so no way the mafia could have known it would be kyeugh, whether to protect scum!kyeugh or to frame town!kyeugh


----------



## Tofu

kokorico said:


> mewtini said:
> 
> 
> 
> guys, hot take. what if the ultracool wagon got messed up because he's outgroup mafia lol.
> 
> 
> 
> gosh that certainly is a Theory
> 
> if he was outgroup then I can certainly empathise with the "aaaaa I have no idea what to do" that probably resulted in his lurking
> 
> if true, I suppose we should be suspicious of anyone who parked on him early and didn't switch to Herbe later? that's, um... Tofu? and also Herbe himself ig
Click to expand...

I voted for Ultracool early because he said some thing about "oh woops I didn't get notifications for these posts for the past day" or whatever and I thought it was lying because he had liked one of my posts during the timeframe he said he was not online. It was a hunch based on that seeming dishonest (and was ultimately right I guess). I kept my vote parked there because ultimately the other wagons confused me more than my initial hunch so I didn't change it. At the EOD I got really confused with all the rapid posting but by that time, I thought changing it would be a bad idea because I was more sure of my initial vote than I would feel of changing it at that point.


----------



## Tofu

My current suspicions have been parked on Blu, if only because of tone, idk... Another hunch that may or may not be correct but I'm going to comb through some more posts later.


----------



## qenya

that's fair, good logic on ultracool! I should say ftr that I don't especially doubt you, I'm just kinda riffing off "if this were true, what would it imply? would it contradict anything we know?"

bluwiikoon is an interesting read. butterfree said something similar earlier:


Butterfree said:


> I feel bad suspecting Bluwii for following _me_ in voting for Herbe, but he went from voting Emmy to Tofu to Herbe (all the counterwagons to Ultracool one after another), and justifying a vote for the town wagon over the mafia wagon on the basis that you're just following someone in towncore is pretty convenient, and it's true that making a big show of how you're trying to protect the doctor with this big flashy speculation gambit isn't necessarily _actually_ towny. I'd have to have another look at his posts, buuuut it's a plausible lead.


I haven't really been looking at him tbh, pretty much just wrote him off as "seems towny" on d1 on the basis of his excitability and then forgot about him, oops

just glanced through his ISO, and this post is interesting, where he justifies his vote for herbe:


Bluwiikoon said:


> M Plus 7 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Bluwiikoon said:
> 
> 
> 
> I can't speak for anyone else but I just trust butterfree's judgement on the Herbe matter tbh
> 
> 
> 
> What do you mean by this?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Butterfree was the first one I can recall having suspicions about Herbe based on D1 "haha, it's so different playing as town!" esque posts Herbe made. It really made me reconsider my Herbe feelings because up until then I felt they were legit towny, and the rolecop stuff also seems suspect imo.
Click to expand...

if you think about it, it's... not actually a reason at all? it's like he decided he was going to vote for herbe, and then couched it in something that sounded vaguely logicky and herbe-related

especially: "rolecop stuff also seems suspect"? but butterfree backed up herbe's rolecop claim! if he trusts her, why doesn't he believe it?

this is all a bit sketchy and not sure I'd feel comfy voting for him based on it, but, uh.


----------



## Bluwiikoon

To clarify, what seemed suspect about the rolecop stuff is the fact that people were saying that it's normally a mafia-aligned role. That's all!

I'm happy to answer questions if anyone has 'em, just on general I'm having a hard time activating my brain. ^^; Additionally I stopped being as memey and exciteable because uhhhh people really didn't like having to catch up on pages of memery and I get really worried about being too annoying.  I've been trying to rein myself in a bit!


----------



## Bluwiikoon

If I haven't been as active as I was on D1 that's also because real life is being a bit, uh, bad to me right now

Everything happens all at once!!


----------



## Vipera Magnifica

Just going to spew some thoughts

I like the idea that Ultracool being outgroup mafia could have been the reason the wagon stayed uncontested for so long. I had just thought it was the mafia being resigned to losing one of their own and bussing him for town cred but that theory makes slightly more sense.

Emmy being blocked could have been because the mafia expected her to inspect Herbe, but whether that was because Herbe is mafia and didn't want to be inspected, or the mafia wanted to paint suspicion on Herbe, I have no clue.. WIFOM.pdf



Butterfree said:


> My brain made up this whole tinfoil theory reading the end of day about why VM didn't _actually_ vote for Ultracool when he counterclaimed, where VM's mafia and pretended to counterclaim for town cred, but no, when I type that out it doesn't actually make any sense.


I am still really salty about EoD because like... Jack closed the votes within seconds of me realizing what had happened, which is where the


Vipera Magnifica said:


> GOD DAMN IT


came from

I was RELIEVED when I saw that Ultracool still had the majority vote though



Butterfree said:


> I feel bad suspecting Bluwii for following _me_ in voting for Herbe, but he went from voting Emmy to Tofu to Herbe (all the counterwagons to Ultracool one after another), and justifying a vote for the town wagon over the mafia wagon on the basis that you're just following someone in towncore is pretty convenient, and it's true that making a big show of how you're trying to protect the doctor with this big flashy speculation gambit isn't necessarily _actually_ towny. I'd have to have another look at his posts, buuuut it's a plausible lead.


I did find it a little odd how Blu parked on Herbe even though he was suspecting Emmy of being an alien... but their excuse of protecting the cop _kinda _makes sense? But also kinda doesn't... if people actually believed the alien story there's a chance Emmy would just get offed by the vig... and I found it a little weird he only said he'd explain the alien gambit after I pointed out the contradiction of Blue casting doubt on _both _cops. Maybe it was a town play, but it's not one I fully understand the thought process behind.

I'm feeling a little deflated because I thought I was going to come into this day phase knowing a lot more but now I feel like I know even less than I did before. I want whatever D2 VM was on. All my townreads have come into question and aside from mewtini being town, nothing seems certain. But even then I can't say for certain she's not lover-paired with a mafia. My outlook on this whole game has been



Spoiler


----------



## kyeugh

so are we pretty sure there is indeed an outgroup then
it would make sense given the whole six mafia thing, but.  just to be sure.  i'm uncertain whether the outgroup mafia spec is specifically in response to ultracool's wagon being so lopsided or if it's just something we've already been assuming


----------



## Trebek

Vipera Magnifica said:


> Emmy being blocked could have been because the mafia expected her to inspect Herbe, but whether that was because Herbe is mafia and didn't want to be inspected, or the mafia wanted to paint suspicion on Herbe, I have no clue.. WIFOM.pdf


i don’t think we should try to think about if emmy’s rb is alignment indicative of herbe bc honestly if i’m a mafia role blocker N2 i’m blocking emmy no matter what bc cop scary


----------



## Trebek

from what i gathered the speculation came about specifically bc of how the voting went yesterDay, but i wouldn’t be surprised if some people were already suspecting that outgroup existed


----------



## Tofu

At some point earlier (probably shortly after vm posted about how many mafia-aligned players there should be) there was speculation about outgroup mafia because of the fact that 6 mafia-aligned players who could all communicate with each other seems like it'd be too overpowered


----------



## mewtini

kyeugh said:


> it would make sense given the whole six mafia thing, but. just to be sure. i'm uncertain whether the outgroup mafia spec is specifically in response to ultracool's wagon being so lopsided or if it's just something we've already been assuming


VM mentioned it earlier because we were thinking 6 ingroup mafia would suck, so i figured that if there is outgroup mafia, it probably included ultracool



kokorico said:


> if [outgroup] true, I suppose we should be suspicious of anyone who parked on him early and didn't switch to Herbe later? that's, um... Tofu? and also Herbe himself ig


meh, i think at that point we'd be back to just thinking about v/v wagons and people possibly switching to feign ... emotion (similar to what made us think about ILS; i realize that he's town so that doesn't work 100% but whatever)



kokorico said:


> (this requires him to be intentionally pocketing mewt fsr, hence the "secret tell", but... I mean, don't we all secretly want to pocket mewt?)


lmfao. i want to believe he wouldn't go for that again. i'm unpocketable this game, baby!
but yeah ftr i do truly believe that the 'secret tell' is too significant of a thing to be skipped over. my other theory is that there's a mafia rolecop and _they_ figured something out

also if keldeo is a wolf though then i think that makes ultracool ingroup. that or kel just figured it out, he's been talking about uc all game


----------



## mewtini

mewtini said:


> meh, i think at that point we'd be back to just thinking about v/v wagons and people possibly switching to feign ... emotion (similar to what made us think about ILS; i realize that he's town so that doesn't work 100% but whatever)


actually jk we already did this didn't we.,



kokorico said:


> Mist, M+7 and Trebek wouldn't look great either


why trebek tbh. he moved and with justification
mist and m+7 are in my suspectland so i'm vibing with that though


----------



## mewtini

Vipera Magnifica said:


> I did find it a little odd how Blu parked on Herbe even though he was suspecting Emmy of being an alien... but their excuse of protecting the cop _kinda _makes sense?





Vipera Magnifica said:


> But even then I can't say for certain she's not lover-paired with a mafia.


lol i am definitely not lover-paired, but i will continue pushing my Reasons(tm) defenses that i suspect are why you bring that possibility up


----------



## mewtini

ok i meant to ACTUALLY reply to first quote and say that in retrospect i find it pretty clear that he never actually suspected that :p


----------



## mewtini

kokorico said:


> if you think about it, it's... not actually a reason at all? it's like he decided he was going to vote for herbe, and then couched it in something that sounded vaguely logicky and herbe-related


tbh blu is on my list as "could be a wolf but i would be sad" so i don't want to like, kill spec here, but also i don't think it's as contentless as you say it is. herbe's "look at me i'm so town now" shenanigans is what made a _lot_ of people feel weird early on, and the rolecop metagame stuff probably was legit confusing


----------



## Bluwiikoon

This _is_ my first game since uhhhh 2008 so I'm like @___@ So many things! It's so much different playing than just being a spectator, haha!

I'm interested in what Keldeo has to say to defend himself, but if he's got Real Life happening then that kinda sucks. :-( I don't wanna be too hasty voting, but he makes sense as a person who _could_ be mafia but could also hide it very well because of his playstyle.


----------



## mewtini

honestly if it's not keldeo then something has gone horribly wrong for my roster analysis
then the possible wolves would all be lurkers + maybe blu
not taking into account the wagon to kill off a town PR in that case


----------



## mewtini

mewtini said:


> maybe one of blu/kokorico/rnp


----------



## Novae

ultracool ingroup, herbe not group - people voting ultracool late @ 8v2 then voting herbe @ EoD look bad
ultracool ingroup, herbe ingroup - probably same as above+people not voting look bad
ultracool outgroup, herbe not group - people parked on ultracool before 8v2 look bad?
ultracool outgroup, herbe ingroup - people parked on ultracool look bad, herbe voters look very good


----------



## Novae

will potentially worldbuild with this at some point, maybe


----------



## Trebek

if both UC and herbe were maf, i’d imagine maf would want to bus UC first bc w!herbe’s role is likely more powerful

i don’t subscribe to w!herbe but it’s something to think about


----------



## Trebek

@ mewtini, you said you have reason to trust skylar? trying to figure out where everyone stands in my brain


----------



## Herbe

i have arrived~ the spec so far seems fascinating.


----------



## Trebek

in re: mewt

is your rationale threadbased or [redacted] bc if it’s the former then maybe i just have to go ISO again


----------



## mewtini

Trebek said:


> @ mewtini, you said you have reason to trust skylar? trying to figure out where everyone stands in my brain


yup. i'm pretty certain about it. it is by [redacted] though.
to recap/revise because i'm avoiding Work and i didn't have time to give some short rationales last time:

*towncore:*
_me_, because i am *The Best Mafia Player, and Person, Alive*
_rari_, for reasons
_skylar_, for reasons (reasserting that this and the above reasons make rari/skylar locktown for me)
_emmy_, because i believe her copclaim and also i like being copchecked as green
_herbe_, because [redacted]
_bfree_, by role

*town, not quite core (ordered):*
_VM_, by jennyanydots counterclaim (could go up, i only am not because the ones above are more mech-related)
_trebek_, for his EoD and flip between herbe/ultracool
_rnp_, for the hard not-copclaim (a little ways below trebek imo)
_kokorico_, kind of unsure but the myuma defense and lovers remark look good for em. there is a reason i put em at the bottom of this list but i need to figure something else out first.

*hmmmmm (orderedish):*
_tofu_, could be newbie town/i'll follow VM for a bit in trusting her, but she hasn't said anything that would convince me to move her into the above tier
_mist_, gave some off-the-cuff reads ("VM town for herbe paranoia") but is pretty null tbh. i liked superjolt's posting but it wasn't super alignment-indicative either
_m+7_, liked his posting early on but also didn't know if it was all that AI and his lurking hasn't really helped. also iirc did not look great during the ultracool thing but admittedly he and i were both reading ultracool's posting as innocent
_keldeo_, for starting the herbe train and trying to keep a town PR wagon going. also maybe confbias but i'm pretty sure that everyone in my towncore is indeed town - and i think that the scumteam excluding keldeo would be a bizarrely inactive/lurky team


----------



## mewtini

btw. why did none of us consider that maybe mafia fired at someone outside of me/emmy and just hit a town bulletproof. lol


----------



## mewtini

it makes me really antsy that my not-townread ring is made up of everyone who i'm not as personally close with and i keep worrying it's confbias but like. my towncore + VM is mostly just mech/mech-adjacent stuff. idk


----------



## Trebek

yeah, frankly i’m mindmelding with mewt’s towncore/am willing to go her Reasons for rari/skylar, so now i guess it’s up to ordering everyone else lmao

also yeah town bulletproof could totally have been what happened


----------



## Trebek

although excluding mewts towncore and me leaves 7 people, which seems slightly low for there still being 5 maf. i don’t have any counteropinions about towncore tho so ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ unless someone is out here playing 8d chess


----------



## mewtini

i think it's possible that i'm wrong about like 1 person in towncore but i prefer to think that i've just solved the game


----------



## mewtini

that is a joke btw. i'm sure there's something crucial that i'm horrifically off-base about hahahahaha


----------



## Trebek

frankly the only other thing i can think of is like

mewt/emmy/herbe just absolutely galaxy brain-ing on all of us

and honestly if that’s true they deserve to win rn


----------



## IndigoClaudia

mewtini said:


> _me_, because i am *The Best Mafia Player, and Person, Alive*
> _rari_, for reasons
> _skylar_, for reasons (reasserting that this and the above reasons make rari/skylar locktown for me)
> _emmy_, because i believe her copclaim and also i like being copchecked as green
> _herbe_, because [redacted]


all of these reasons are very lol.


----------



## mewtini

Trebek said:


> mewt/emmy/herbe just absolutely galaxy brain-ing on all of us


perish the thought tbh



IndigoEmmy said:


> all of these reasons are very lol.


lol yeah. but they're true!!


----------



## mewtini

last thing (sorrysorry). i would've probably paranoia-posited previously (PP-PP for short) that emmy isnt necessarily lock but no one else has counterclaimed, so ...


----------



## mewtini

and then she got roleblocked lol so.


----------



## Trebek

everyone knows that the true mafia are the friends you made along the way


----------



## Trebek

also, bonus town points to herbe for actually saying he investigated someone last night, imo w!herbe likely would’ve “gotten roleblocked”


----------



## mewtini

that's probably NAI isn't it? w!herbe would know that emmy would come back with something making it clear she got [mafia] roleblocked (unless you're saying he just blames it on a hypothetical town roleblocker or something like that)


----------



## Trebek

mewtini said:


> that's probably NAI isn't it? w!herbe would know that emmy would come back with something making it clear she got [mafia] roleblocked (unless you're saying he just blames it on a hypothetical town roleblocker or something like that)


aw heck, you’re probably right, but part of me still wants to believe w!herbe would still have an easier time justifying 2 roleblockers than coming up with a fake role for a dead person

basically i’m TRing herbe for more reasons than just [redacted]


----------



## Herbe

i think trebek is pocketing me, i'd be offended if the EoD yesterday where he literally saved my life didn't happen :3


----------



## Trebek

:o is pocketing a good or bad connotation in this context


----------



## mewtini

herbe what are your lynch thoughts for the day tbh. i guess i should start thinking more about that but i don't wanna


----------



## mewtini

at least i've got a process of elim set up...........


----------



## Herbe

Trebek said:


> :o is pocketing a good or bad connotation in this context


bad if you're wolf, harmless if you're not


mewtini said:


> herbe what are your lynch thoughts for the day tbh. i guess i should start thinking more about that but i don't wanna


i'm looking at a blu/keldeo vote myself


----------



## Trebek

that is good to know :p

yeah i’m honestly feeling the same? don’t want to press too hard until keldeo gets back tho


----------



## mewtini

Trebek said:


> don’t want to press too hard until keldeo gets back tho


lol i think you're feeling more pacifistic than i am toDay

herbe talk to me about your thoughts on each? i'm not convinced on wagoning blu over like m+7, but i guess blu being more active might be useful


----------



## Bluwiikoon

Aww geez :< EoD isn't for quite a while yet, right? Just wondering when a roleclaim would be sufficient


----------



## Bluwiikoon

I'm trying really hard, I promise! My head is just so empty at the moment and I'm embarrassed that I can't think of anything smart


----------



## mewtini

Bluwiikoon said:


> Aww geez :< EoD isn't for quite a while yet, right? Just wondering when a roleclaim would be sufficient


def not needed yet hahaha!


----------



## mewtini

blu what are your lynchthoughts (if any)?


----------



## kyeugh

not sure i get why everyone’s townreading herbe but i feel  about him 
gonna iso keldeo but i doubt i’ll make any conclusions from it


----------



## Novae

hmm

if herbe was mafia he would know mewtini's role and via that would probably either block mewtini and kill emmy or vice versa, unless herbe and mewtini are both mafia, which I find unlikely

yes?


----------



## mewtini

kyeugh said:


> not sure i get why everyone’s townreading herbe but i feel  about him


you don't know what [redacted] is do you
idk if i'd be townreading him without it ftr


----------



## mewtini

ok mist just said the quiet part out loud. yep


----------



## kyeugh

Mist1422 said:


> hmm
> 
> if herbe was mafia he would know mewtini's role and via that would probably either block mewtini and kill emmy or vice versa, unless herbe and mewtini are both mafia, which I find unlikely
> 
> yes?


didn’t mewtini ask doctor to go on her last night


----------



## mewtini

yeah. but i healed emmy last night


----------



## Bluwiikoon

I'm honestly feeling more and more  about Keldeo. His playstyle being the same in most circumstances would definitely do a really good job of masking himself if he is mafia. There was some weird posts from him around EOD yesterDay too, right?

It is so hard to form thoughts on other people that don't say too much  Other than that, I have some minor feelings about kyeugh. Not because of emmy's failed check (although, she did "ask" the cop to inspect kyeugh at some point I believe) but just more and more Strange Things building up. May be WIFOM but I don't always buy that the jokes are complete jokes LOL


----------



## kyeugh

oh what how did i miss that


----------



## mewtini

yeah haha. it's kinda complicated tbh. i've purposefully not really explained it out :T


----------



## kyeugh

Bluwiikoon said:


> Not because of emmy's failed check (although, she did "ask" the cop to inspect kyeugh at some point I believe)


i’m not sure what this means


----------



## mewtini

Bluwiikoon said:


> just more and more Strange Things building up


what are the strange things tbh
i think the joking is 100% neither here nor there honestly


----------



## kyeugh

speaking of my hilarious jokes i’m pretty sure the mechanically correct thing to do is lynch rnp since ultracool flipped scum


----------



## Bluwiikoon

;o; Sorryyyy augh this is why it sucks to not take notes. I'm not sure which specific posts to point to without like, browsing the whole thread again (on mobile!)

I guess in the end it is mostly feelings... Sorry sorry I'm deleting it as fast as I can-


----------



## mewtini

kyeugh said:


> speaking of my hilarious jokes i’m pretty sure the mechanically correct thing to do is lynch rnp since ultracool flipped scum


are you just memeing about you being w/w/w with rnp and ultra, or are you fr


----------



## rari_teh

kyeugh said:


> speaking of my hilarious jokes i’m pretty sure the mechanically correct thing to do is lynch rnp since ultracool flipped scum


…why?


----------



## rari_teh

nvm, mewt ninja’d me with the explanation


----------



## Herbe

mewt im gonna be honest i forgot about m+7's place in the game
idk.... i could go for a MP7 lynch over a blu lynch


----------



## rari_teh

btw here’s my tierlist as of now ~

*locktown* (mech only)
rari, your friendly neighbourhood cat
mewtini because Reasons™
kyeugh because Reasons™
emmy because Cop™
Herbe because [redacted]™
Butterfree — confirmed role; w/w with Herbe is unrealistic

*either town or i suck*
Trebek — he was the casting vote that sent Ultracool to the basement
RNP — if he was mafia he’d have no reason to hardclaim not-cop when i suspected Emmy was fakeclaiming and RNP was the real cop who didn’t want to out himself
Bluwiikoon — pings super pure since the beginning. i get y’all’s reservations around his sheeping of Butterfree and the alien thing, but c’mon, mate
VM — nobody counterclaimed Jennyanydots. there’s a slight chance he’s lying and the real gumbie cat is dead, but how would he know that?!

*townlean*
kokorico — his posts sound genuinely solvy and are (almost?) always well referenced, even if I don’t agree much with some of his reads
Tofu — she pings me as a newbie who isn’t much sure of what she’s doing but is trying her best
M+7 — i liked a lot his thoughtposts when he first appeared here, but there was a lot of read decay and, while they definitely exist, i don’t recall any recent posts from him, which is probably bad? though this may change according to his future posts

*null to hmmm*
Mist1422 — almost everything they say is mech iirc? their vote yesterDay looked good, but i don’t have much material to work on and the little material that exists isn’t much AI
Keldeo — while he pushes discussion forward a lot, his posts are chiefly NAI, which makes him a walking puzzle to my eyes. i wouldn’t like to see him go this soon mainly because there probably won’t be anybody else in the thread to push other people into giving their opinions, but then again his wagon diversion yesterDay doesn’t look any good

please note that if the outgroup!ultracool theory is correct, my reads on Trebek and Keldeo lose a lot of value (though i’d still have a townlean on Trebek)

needless to say, i’m afraid i’m missing something huge here. there are five mafia around and only five people below the _either town or i suck_ tier, which most likely means that i suck


----------



## Herbe

rari_teh said:


> i wouldn’t like to see him go this soon mainly because there probably won’t be anybody else in the thread to push other people into giving their opinions


we gotta be the change we want to see in the world
also wolf-led discussion is never good


----------



## qenya

mewtini said:


> *towncore:*
> _me_, because i am *The Best Mafia Player, and Person, Alive*
> _rari_, for reasons
> _skylar_, for reasons (reasserting that this and the above reasons make rari/skylar locktown for me)


look

mewt

we all love you dearly, and I know you have a green copcheck

but seriously

you can't just go "these people who nobody has any mechreads on are town because I say so"

that's not how this works

that's not how any of this works



rari_teh said:


> mewtini because Reasons™
> kyeugh because Reasons™


especially when one of them proceeds to post almost THE EXACT SAME TIERLIST

seriously, does _nobody else_ see how _really fucking weird_ this is


----------



## qenya

I'm sorry, I think that came out a little bit more harshly than I intended

not trying to tunnel you, I just. ugh. nothing makes sense, even though the mech situation is _really not complicated_, and I don't like it

don't play mafia while tired, kids


----------



## mewtini

kokorico said:


> especially when one of them proceeds to post almost THE EXACT SAME TIERLIST


i wonder if there could be a connection ...


kokorico said:


> you can't just go "these people who nobody has any mechreads on are town because I say so"


tbh i'm just posting my tierlist and i have my own near-mech reasons why i am 95% certain those two people are town. putting them lower just because no one else is privy to those reasons wouldn't be a legit tierlist from me :| i'm not annoyed with anyone else for not putting them in their towncores, but they are in mine, and at this point it doesn't make sense for me from a pro-town standpoint to reveal what those reasons are. sorry


----------



## rari_teh

koko. i understand how frustrating/borderline absurd this might sound, but really. you just have to trust us on this one for the time being
in some Days’ time it all will be clear as water tbh


----------



## Trebek

mewtini said:


> i wonder if there could be a connection ...


ooooh maybe [this message has been redacted]?


----------



## mewtini

Trebek said:


> ooooh maybe [this message has been redacted]?


fuck, you figured us out. we- [redacted]


----------



## rari_teh

Trebek said:


> mewtini said:
> 
> 
> 
> i wonder if there could be a connection ...
> 
> 
> 
> ooooh maybe [this message has been redacted]?
Click to expand...

well, actually ███████ ███ ███ ███████ ██████ ███
which is kind of █████████ ██████████, but


----------



## Trebek

rari_teh said:


> Trebek said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> mewtini said:
> 
> 
> 
> i wonder if there could be a connection ...
> 
> 
> 
> ooooh maybe [this message has been redacted]?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> well, actually ███████ ███ ███ ███████ ██████ ███
> which is kind of █████████ ██████████, but
Click to expand...


----------



## mewtini

kokorico said:


> even though the mech situation is _really not complicated_, and I don't like it


also, hehe, idk if this is the case, sadly ... 

anyway i am sorry for being cryptic and for how frustrating i realize it could be, but. i don't think town wants me to be any more transparent than i am tbh.


----------



## mewtini

wait, actually. what makes you say that the mech situation isn't complicated


----------



## qenya

mewtini said:


> wait, actually. what makes you say that the mech situation isn't complicated


uh, I'm gonna be honest, this was not the part of my post I expected you to find particularly interesting

but I mean:

n0: mafia kills someone.

d1: town lynches someone who seemed scummy.

n1: mafia kills someone. vig kills someone who was a sensible vig target.

d2: cop claims. town lynches someone who seemed scummy.

n2: mafia fails to kill anyone, presumably because the claimed cop was successfully healed. mafia roleblocks the claimed cop. vig kills someone who was a sensible vig target.

none of this seems unusual? have I missed something? there's herbe ig, but tbh that barely even qualifies as vanilla based on some games I've seen in the archives here

when I say the mech situation "isn't complicated" I mean everything mechanical that's happened so far has a clear and obvious explanation


----------



## qenya

rari_teh said:


> koko. i understand how frustrating/borderline absurd this might sound, but really. you just have to trust us on this one for the time being


if one of you flips red I reserve the right to obnoxiously dab all over the thread


----------



## rari_teh

kokorico said:


> I mean everything mechanical that's happened so far has a clear and obvious explanation


I disagree. heavily

mafia killing seshas makes no sense unless they know something we don’t
mafia targetting someone who’s obviously being healed and not even roleblocking the declared healer is at the very least questionable strategy

either the mafia’s play is, uh, subpar, or there were things that went on that we don’t know about
regarding the lack of kill, i’d say they likely targetted a townie that’s out of the spotlight and popped a vest, but that’s just a theory


----------



## rari_teh

kokorico said:


> rari_teh said:
> 
> 
> 
> koko. i understand how frustrating/borderline absurd this might sound, but really. you just have to trust us on this one for the time being
> 
> 
> 
> if one of you flips red I reserve the right to obnoxiously dab all over the thread
Click to expand...

if one of us flips red i ask the vig to kill the other two of us in the following nights


----------



## mewtini

kokorico said:


> this was not the part of my post I expected you to find particularly interesting


hey i found the rest of it interesting too, that's why i replied to that part first!

i find it weird to assume that this game has gone that simply considering that this is a role madness game on The Cave of Dragonflies Forums tbh


----------



## Keldeo

rari_teh said:


> Trebek said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> mewtini said:
> 
> 
> 
> i wonder if there could be a connection ...
> 
> 
> 
> ooooh maybe [this message has been redacted]?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> well, actually ███████ ███ ███ ███████ ██████ ███
> which is kind of █████████ ██████████, but
Click to expand...




Spoiler












(hi! gonna try to catch up now)


----------



## qenya

mewtini said:


> this is a role madness game


is it though? I remember rari said that earlier too (since apparently you're just. like. psychically linked) but I thought the whole point of this was that it was a nice non-shenanigans game to let us all cool off after tv tropes

according to the signup thread itself, there are 7 people without any power roles at all


----------



## mewtini

kokorico said:


> according to the signup thread itself, there are 7 people without any power roles at all


yeah. and 14 people with power roles.


----------



## Bluwiikoon

I don't even know what half the standard roles do but I have no choice but to stan the ot3


----------



## rari_teh

kokorico said:


> mewtini said:
> 
> 
> 
> this is a role madness game
> 
> 
> 
> is it though? I remember rari said that earlier too (since apparently you're just. like. psychically linked) but I thought the whole point of this was that it was a nice non-shenanigans game to let us all cool off after tv tropes
> 
> according to the signup thread itself, there are 7 people without any power roles at all
Click to expand...

think like this: if i, mewt and kyeugh were w/w/w together, how much sense would it make to publicly imply that we have a mech link?


----------



## mewtini

rari_teh said:


> think like this: if i, mewt and kyeugh were w/w/w together, how much sense would it make to publicly imply that we have a mech link?


what if that's just what we want everyone to think.xml


----------



## qenya

mewtini said:


> kokorico said:
> 
> 
> 
> according to the signup thread itself, there are 7 people without any power roles at all
> 
> 
> 
> yeah. and 14 people with power roles.
Click to expand...

oh

oh wait

it occurs to me that I may have been coming at this from completely the wrong angle

quick question, anyone can answer: on tcod, is it normal for people with non-compulsive non-investigative PRs to make use of them almost every night?



rari_teh said:


> think like this: if i, mewt and kyeugh were w/w/w together, how much sense would it make to publicly imply that we have a mech link?


I don't see how it makes any sense _regardless_ of your alignment

that's why I'm reacting so strongly to it

but seriously, can we just drop this. I'm tired and I'm not feeling well and either it will turn out to make sense or it won't and it's just a game anyway


----------



## rari_teh

kokorico said:


> quick question, anyone can answer: on tcod, is it normal for people with non-compulsive non-investigative PRs to make use of them almost every night?


I can’t say for the others, but the only role I can think of that I wouldn’t necessarily use every night if I had is vig



kokorico said:


> but seriously, can we just drop this


this tbh


----------



## mewtini

kokorico said:


> I don't see how it makes any sense _regardless_ of your alignment


building a towncore?

hope you feel better btw


----------



## Bluwiikoon

Kokooo make sure you get some rest! ;o; I hope you feel better soon!


----------



## RedneckPhoenix

sorry i'm late

i jailed emmy, so emmy is either mafia or was targetted by mafia, if the vigkill went thru


----------



## mewtini

that's hot tbh
are those the only options though? mafia could have just gone for someone else, right?


----------



## RedneckPhoenix

gonna go read thru thread brb


----------



## Keldeo

RedneckPhoenix said:


> sorry i'm late
> 
> i jailed emmy, so emmy is either mafia or was targetted by mafia, if the vigkill went thru


Hmmmm mm.

I don't think those are the only two options either ftr.


----------



## mewtini

i think this just means my original fear is a possibility again
mafia roleblocked me and tried to kill emmy
not necessarily true (i.e. if they assume there was another doc, or ... a jailer ...) but :^/


----------



## mewtini

mewtini said:


> just


i do not want that word there


----------



## Trebek

yeah, while that is interesting, it doesnt eliminate the possibility of "lmao bulletproof vest"


----------



## Trebek

RedneckPhoenix said:


> sorry i'm late
> 
> i jailed emmy, so emmy is either mafia or was targetted by mafia, if the vigkill went thru


this is also... quite a bomb to drop on chat, if jailer here works any similarly to jailer in ToS. were you able to / did you use your night action the first 2 nights?


----------



## Keldeo

mewtini, can you rank your reasons(TM) clears on rari, kyeugh, and Herbe on a scale from "could possibly be mafia" to "if mafia, Jack has gone mad with power"


----------



## RedneckPhoenix

i jailed stryke first bc it was funny and then i jailed kyeugh outta spite.


----------



## Trebek

hmmmm

sounds like jailed targets arent notified of it in this game then, bc i feel like stryke wouldve mentioned that on the chopping block


----------



## Bluwiikoon

What does jailing someone do? :o


----------



## RedneckPhoenix

blocks and protects


----------



## mewtini

Keldeo said:


> mewtini, can you rank your reasons(TM) clears on rari, kyeugh, and Herbe on a scale from "could possibly be mafia" to "if mafia, Jack has gone mad with power"


rari (100%) > kyeugh (98%) >= herbe (95%). w!herbe could theoretically have orchestrated [redacted], but it seems like an odd limb to go out on at this point


----------



## RedneckPhoenix

no night actions at all, no being attacked at all


----------



## mewtini

mewtini said:


> kyeugh (98%) >= herbe (95%)


i typed >= before i put the numbers in ...


----------



## Trebek

so, if we believe rnp, that means that we dont actually know if there is a mafia roleblocker
neato


----------



## RedneckPhoenix

's why i hypocleared kyeugh but then i thought "well, she might be a different mafia role" and un-cleared


----------



## Bluwiikoon

Edits to current roster chart! (smash bros music)



Spoiler



*Butterfree
IndigoEmmy
Herbe
mewtini
Mawile - killed N0, not scum*
*Stryke - lynched D1, not scum
Seshas - killed N1, not scum
myuma - killed N1, not scum*
*I liek Squirtles - killed N2, not scum

Mr. Ultracool - lynched D2, scum 

Claims:*
RedneckPhoenix - Jailer
kyeugh - Part of mysterious ot3
rari_teh - Part of mysterious ot3

*Unknown:*
Keldeo
kokorico
Trebek
M Plus 7
Tofu
Bluwiikoon (I promise I'm town guys!!! )
Vipera Magnifica
Mist1422


----------



## Keldeo

Why are you clearing Herbe and Butterfree again, Blu? I don’t disagree, but would like to hear from you.


----------



## Bluwiikoon

Herbe cleared Butterfree as a fishing brother, and Herbe also claimed to have inspected mewtini n0, and yet mewtini was not shanked already despite apparently having a role that the mafia would not enjoy. ^^


----------



## Keldeo

Bluwiikoon said:


> Herbe cleared Butterfree as a fishing brother, and Herbe also claimed to have inspected mewtini n0, and yet mewtini was not shanked already despite apparently having a role that the mafia would not enjoy. ^^


Cool, thank you. Who are your main suspicions within the bottom pile? Is there anyone besides me that you think we should be looking at?


----------



## rari_teh

Bluwiikoon said:


> Keldeo
> kokorico
> Trebek
> M Plus 7
> Tofu
> Bluwiikoon (I promise I'm town guys!!! )
> Vipera Magnifica
> Mist1422


lest we forget, given that all claims are genuine one of these is bfree’s fishing brother and five of these are mafia


----------



## Bluwiikoon

Keldeo said:


> Bluwiikoon said:
> 
> 
> 
> Herbe cleared Butterfree as a fishing brother, and Herbe also claimed to have inspected mewtini n0, and yet mewtini was not shanked already despite apparently having a role that the mafia would not enjoy. ^^
> 
> 
> 
> Cool, thank you. Who are your main suspicions within the bottom pile? Is there anyone besides me that you think we should be looking at?
Click to expand...

So if three of the remaining people are town or 3p, then, uhhhh (checks writing on hand)

Keldeo - Sorry to suspect you bro but I'd probably mark you as red 
kokorico - Idk sorry
Trebek - We had some good feelings about them during the Trebekkening! Which, of course, was spearheaded by Keldeo...
M Plus 7 - Idk tbh
Tofu - VM was like  at her role, and yet didn't move to lynch her. I'd assume 3p unless they're in it together
Bluwiikoon - I'm town, of course.
Vipera Magnifica - Just vibes tbh, and if we accept kyeugh as innocent then the statistics REALLY looks bad
Mist1422 - Idk


----------



## Bluwiikoon

*The great kyeugh statistics debate I mean


----------



## mewtini

if there's a 3p in this game i'll be so upset about the weird ratios hahaha


----------



## Trebek

mewtini said:


> if there's a 3p in this game i'll be so upset about the weird ratios hahaha


honestly yeah i know i was all like owo aliens? before but im seriously starting to doubt it


----------



## mewtini

like 6 mafia is already ... steep ...


----------



## Keldeo

mewtini said:


> honestly if it's not keldeo then something has gone horribly wrong for my roster analysis
> then the possible wolves would all be lurkers + maybe blu
> not taking into account the wagon to kill off a town PR in that case


Something has gone wrong with your roster analysis, and I’d like to work with you (general you) to figure out why that is. We were able to yeet a super easy target yesterday and that kind of points me at the mafia not being willing or able to stop it, which... I don't really know what to do with that yet. 

The outgroup mafia idea is interesting and actually occurred to me after the flip - I'll keep it in mind, but I'm inclined to simplify and assume he was in-group to focus on interactions, particularly because I think if Ultracool was ingroup, he would have been pretty bussable. I don't really agree with the idea of clearing Herbe for not killing mewtini, but I also think Herbe is _probably_ town no matter if Ultracool was ingroup or outgroup. 

It seems like people's scumreads on me amount to me being wrong yesterday, and not having whatever redacted reasons to towncore me? Which is, like, understandable, but gently, that frustrates me because it makes me feel like I have to play a perfect game in order to get any townreads that aren’t basically nullreads because paranoia because I’m a scary mafia or whatever. Like... do you not think that if I actually knew everyone’s alignments I maybe wouldn’t loltunnel and do stuff that makes me look bad? Haha.


----------



## Bluwiikoon

VM and tofu COULD both be wolves actually, since Tofu was given VM's role in code and didn't try to lynch him either. Or they're both green and Trebek played us all


----------



## mewtini

Bluwiikoon said:


> Tofu was given VM's role in code and didn't try to lynch him either


mmmf, or VM's role wasn't strong enough to warrant targeting yet
i think VM is probably town



Keldeo said:


> Something has gone wrong with your roster analysis,


omfg this was such a. sharp line. my GOD, keldeo. ily


----------



## Keldeo

Urgh, I'm sorry if that still sounds harsh. I’m just... pretty tired of being misyeeted for not being a good villager, haha. 

Which is on me, I mean, projecting town is a two-way street and I guess I haven’t been able to give you all enough yet. That’s fine.


----------



## Bluwiikoon

If VM is Jennyanydots, what does a Jennyanydots do?


----------



## Trebek

Bluwiikoon said:


> Or they're both green and Trebek played us all


I would never!


----------



## mewtini

Keldeo said:


> Urgh, I'm sorry if that still sounds harsh. I’m just... pretty tired of being misyeeted for not being a good villager, haha.


keldeo if it makes you feel better i got there mostly by process of elimination bro. the day is young


----------



## Keldeo

btw: if it isn't clear, I am saying yeet instead of lynch. Easy, fun, and free, 10/10 would recommend.



Bluwiikoon said:


> If VM is Jennyanydots, what does a Jennyanydots do?


I don't think VM should answer this question.

Can you explain more about why you think VM and Tofu's code help to make VM mafia and Tofu town?


----------



## rari_teh

Bluwiikoon said:


> VM and tofu COULD both be wolves actually, since Tofu was given VM's role in code and didn't try to lynch him either. Or they're both green and Trebek played us all


or wolf!(VM/Tofu) posted the code with a wrong answer


----------



## Bluwiikoon

Keldeo said:


> Can you explain more about why you think VM and Tofu's code help to make VM mafia and Tofu town?


My thoughts actually Evolved between that post and the next and I started thinking that they would both have to be the same alignment for it to make sense, right? But then...


rari_teh said:


> Bluwiikoon said:
> 
> 
> 
> VM and tofu COULD both be wolves actually, since Tofu was given VM's role in code and didn't try to lynch him either. Or they're both green and Trebek played us all
> 
> 
> 
> or wolf!(VM/Tofu) posted the code with a wrong answer
Click to expand...


----------



## Bluwiikoon

I learned how to select multiple words at once on mobile! :D I will become a tech-savvy grandpa yet


----------



## mewtini

supertinfoil: jennyanydots isn't a town role, VM truthfully counterclaimed against ultracool, but one of the two is outgroup
l o l


----------



## mewtini

(i mostly joke.)

me scrambling to figure out what the hole in my roster analysis is Something


----------



## Keldeo

mewtini said:


> Keldeo said:
> 
> 
> 
> Urgh, I'm sorry if that still sounds harsh. I’m just... pretty tired of being misyeeted for not being a good villager, haha.
> 
> 
> 
> keldeo if it makes you feel better i got there mostly by process of elimination bro. the day is young
Click to expand...

Okay, let's talk about the people you're eliminating? Can you elaborate more on how koko and RNP looked good and how MP7 looked bad? I haven't done any deep rereading yet, but I'm gonna dig in tonight.


----------



## Bluwiikoon

I like my roster analysis because assuming all the mech things are Correct I have, at the very least, a 1/4 chance of being right about whomst I specced as mafia members  LOL


----------



## Bluwiikoon

That's probably how you math, I don't take criticism


----------



## Bluwiikoon

Basically I'm saying that if I'm wrong about my reads, at least two of them with be correct (2/8) because there's five red and three green


----------



## Bluwiikoon

ASSUMING we have five mafia left


----------



## mewtini

Keldeo said:


> Okay, let's talk about the people you're eliminating? Can you elaborate more on how koko and RNP looked good and how MP7 looked bad? I haven't done any deep rereading yet, but I'm gonna dig in tonight.


koko's lovers remark felt kind of unnecessary for a wolf but i am reevaluating tbh because i felt null about em for a while before that and i need to process recent happenings, RNP talking about the cop stuff with us felt good and now that he's claimed i don't really have qualms putting him in town. m+7 doesn't look _bad_ but he was at mostly null for me for the last stretch as well so i also feel fine enough putting him in my PoE



Bluwiikoon said:


> ASSUMING we have five mafia left


i think this is definitively the case by setup


----------



## Trebek

is jailer necessarily alignment indicative? aka do we know if rnp's motivation was protecting or role blocking emmy


----------



## mewtini

i'm pretty sure jailer is town


----------



## mewtini

at least on Mafia Scum Dot Net it is. also it's like. far more useful for town than mafia lol


----------



## Trebek

mewtini said:


> i'm pretty sure jailer is town


that was my assumption too, but didnt want to get too comfy especially considering that so many people are already being spoken for


----------



## mewtini

no yeah i appreciate that you asked that tbh, i forgot to point it out


----------



## Bluwiikoon

Imagine getting throughly memed on by RNP's blocking roles in TWO games!

(rip Stryke :-( alas)


----------



## mewtini

Trebek said:


> is jailer necessarily alignment indicative? aka do we know if rnp's motivation was protecting or role blocking emmy


also even if it weren't, RNP's explanation of his hypoclear (and his un-clear) checks out


----------



## Bluwiikoon

It explains RNP's defense of Stryke D1 too because he could logically conclude Stryke isn't a killer because uhhhh Mawile still got shanked, despite him blocking Stryke

We all know by now that Stryke flipped green anyway, but still!! I feel that RNP's roleclaim makes sense for now


----------



## Keldeo

I felt like his cop discussion was likely coming from a genuine place, but... hm. I'm not super comfortable labeling jailer as guaranteed town, don't think his claim clears him, but don't really want to talk about that because I don't think discussing that would be super productive. I see what you mean about MP, have been pretty underwhelmed by him so far.



JackPK said:


> Mr. Ultracool (8) (Tofu, Herbe, rari_teh, Mist1422, M Plus 7, kokorico, mewtini, Trebek)
> Herbe (7) (Butterfree, Bluwiikoon, kyeugh, Keldeo, Mr. Ultracool, I liek Squirtles, Vipera Magnifica)
> Tofu (1) (IndigoEmmy)
> IndigoEmmy (1) (RedneckPhoenix)


^ if my starting point is Emmy cop, mewtini her check, Butterfree probably fishing bro (I think this votecount obliterates the 1% world where she's mafia with Herbe), and trusting mewtini on rari/Herbe/kyeugh being town (but I should also probably talk more about why I think Herbe is town now given Ultracool being mafia, no matter whether he was ingroup or outgroup)

this means there were at least 2 bussers on Mr. Ultracool, which... ??? Kinda weird stuff considering all of the people on him were there for EOD and could easily have swapped.


----------



## Keldeo

mewtini said:


> Trebek said:
> 
> 
> 
> is jailer necessarily alignment indicative? aka do we know if rnp's motivation was protecting or role blocking emmy
> 
> 
> 
> also even if it weren't, RNP's explanation of his hypoclear (and his un-clear) checks out
Click to expand...

Oh yeah, I guess. I imagine the mafia would be able to choose who sent the kill, though, right?


----------



## Bluwiikoon

Is there anyone on the EOD wagon for ultracool that didn't resurface before the day was over?


----------



## mewtini

er, is that how it works? i thought there was just a mafia don or something


----------



## Trebek

i might just be forgetting the amount of people in this game, but does that vote count include non-voters? or did everone vote


----------



## Bluwiikoon

Iirc EOD was page 121, but I imagine it would go back a bit further than that


----------



## Keldeo

Everyone voted yesterday.



mewtini said:


> er, is that how it works? i thought there was just a mafia don or something


Oh, right. I guess I'm just used to the MU style of the kill being assigned, I don't remember how Jack does it.


----------



## Bluwiikoon

What if it's everyone attacking at once and you get pummelled by six (five) cats

Sextuply disappeared!!!


----------



## Keldeo

Keldeo said:


> Oh, right. I guess I'm just used to the MU style of the kill being assigned, I don't remember how Jack does it.


From what I can tell it looks like Jack used a don (one specific person has to carry the kill) in Hamilton, Capitalist Democracy 2, and Retro Pokechoice.


----------



## Bluwiikoon

I gotta eat foood but now I'm really engrossed  I think revisiting the roster chart helped me organise my brain a little more today!


----------



## Novae

blu/qva/keldeo/VM - on herbe at EoD (and unflipped/cleared)

lemme go grab the 8/2 thing


----------



## Keldeo

I think I’m going to live in the world where Ultracool was I group for tonight so I can be more productive doing some ISOing when I get back, but it’d be cool for people to talk to me about what wagon they think his partners would be on, in that case?

He’d be an easy target for sure and so maybe they saw the writing on the wall about that and just went for it, but if Herbe is town I’m kind of puzzled by that choice given how contested EOD was. I’m also maybe underestimating how bussy the average wolf is heh.

Mist, can you tell me about conclusions after you’re done doing your thing?


----------



## Novae

Keldeo said:


> ultracool (8): VM, keldeo, tofu, rari, herbe, trebek, skylar, mewtini
> tofu (2): emmy, blu
> Emmy (1): rnp
> Blu (1): ILS


that's kind of awkward because herbe and mewtini are the only people on the UC wagon I'd be willing to clear

let's crosscheck hold


----------



## Novae

moved ultracool > herbe: VM, Keldeo, Skylar/qva/kyuegh
stayed on ultracool: tofu, trebek, rari
clear on original ultra wagon: herbe (stayed), mewtini (stayed)
never voted ultra: RNP (parked on emmy), Emmy (parked on tofu), ILS (moved from blu to herbe), butterfree (not voting > herbe), ultra (not voting > herbe), blu (tofu > herbe)
moved to ultracool after 8v2: mist (hi), MP7, koko

that's just going off those two VCs, lemme reformat so I can process this


----------



## Novae

Moved off of ultracool at the 8v2, voted herbe at EoD: {VM, Keldeo, kyuegh}
Stayed on ultracool between 8v2 and EoD: {tofu, trebek, rari, *Herbe, mewtini*}
Moved onto the ultracool wagon between 8v2 and EoD: {*Mist*, MP7, koko}
off-wagon through EoD: {RNP, *Emmy*}
Weren't voting Ultracool at any point, ended on herbe: {*ILS, Butterfree, Ultra, *Blu}

cutting out the clears we end up with:
{VM, Keldeo, kyuegh}
{tofu, trebek, rari}
{MP7, koko}
{RNP}
{Blu}
in order

Probably 2-3 scum in the first one, one in the second, none in the third, and one in {RNP/Blu}

So if I had to give a solve it'd be VM/Keldeo/kyuegh/Blu/tofu, with tofu swappable with trebek/rari


----------



## Novae

there's my analysis @Keldeo


----------



## Bluwiikoon

Kyeugh is clear because of mewtini's mech clear on her though  And I'm also town!


----------



## Bluwiikoon

Rari is similarly clear for mech reasons that can't be elaborated on (but I trust mewtini!)


----------



## Novae

wait since when did mewtini have a mech clear on kyeugh

also is it kyeugh or kyuegh

ping test 123

ok I've been spelling it wrong this entire time good job mist


----------



## Novae

idk I guess trebek probably doesn't look as good as tofu

lemme double check EoD stuff real quick


----------



## Bluwiikoon

Role shenanigans I think, but it's probably for town's best interests not to poke at it too much.


----------



## Novae

no trebek might be clear

uhhh

@mewtini can you confirm who if anyone you have as mech clear and how solid each clear is please

I may have to redo that


----------



## Novae

mafia is hard y'all

why can't I just do *the mafia* for a free win


----------



## Bluwiikoon

I feel like if I were wolf I'd just let you keep thinking they're not cleared because I'm on your suspect list 

Similarly similarly, RNP also seems to have a legit claim as town jailer


----------



## Novae

that is also fair and I would not say that I am not illiterate!

I do think *Vipera Magnifica* does indeed look pretty bad though from how yesterday went down with the flipflopping on herbe


----------



## mewtini

Mist1422 said:


> no trebek might be clear
> 
> uhhh
> 
> @mewtini can you confirm who if anyone you have as mech clear and how solid each clear is please
> 
> I may have to redo that


hello alien bff!
rari is mech clear, solidly, kyeugh is near-mech clear - i put them at like 100% and 98% respectively lol
fwiw i think trebek was super towny at EoD for his role in lynching ultracool (without his vote it would've randed or just fallen apart)
VM counterclaimed ultracool which makes me think he's either town or just not ingroup with ultracool


----------



## Novae

well that's unfortunate because that's like, my entire PoE

MP7/koko/RNP/Keldeo/tofu/blu are leftovers

idk an RNP/Keldeo/tofu/blu scumteam is...possible? ultracool might have to be outgroup for that though

what makes the most sense rn is RNP/Keldeo/tofu/blu/VM/Ultra, with ultra being outgroup

but would there really be an outgroup in the smaller setup?


----------



## Vipera Magnifica

Trebek said:


> also, bonus town points to herbe for actually saying he investigated someone last night, imo w!herbe likely would’ve “gotten roleblocked”


i mean let's be real... saying you inspected the dead person is pretty much the cop out that i'd expect w!herbe to say; even if he chose to share the role he could just make something up and we wouldn't exactly know

i'm with koko in being annoyed that towncore is adding folks to towncore without actual mechanical clears on them... mewtini _not dying _is not evidence of anything, and please don't make me tap the sign that says "don't assume the mafia is always playing optimally" (like seriously guys i get that mewtini had some kind of important role but like... the mafia could have still gone after the cop and blocked mewtini... this would corroborate RNP's story)

i'm going to laugh like hell if RNP turns out to be mafia roleblocker though


----------



## Bluwiikoon

But if Herbe is wolf why would wolfteam not shank mewtini on N1  Her role seems disruptive to wolf play


----------



## mewtini

Mist1422 said:


> but would there really be an outgroup in the smaller setup?


outgroup was mostly theorized about because we know there are exactly 6 mafia, which we thought was a sort of high number for 21 players, but it's possible that town power or something balances out a large outgroup ... ???

my PoE right now is keldeo/you/tofu/m+7/koko/possibly blu



Vipera Magnifica said:


> i'm with koko in being annoyed that [mewtini?] is adding folks to towncore without actual mechanical clears on them...


i mean. as i said. i get it. but it is also like ... just _my_ towncore. *i* have reasons to put them there. i fully don't expect anyone else to sheep me on it and if i didn't have my own reasons for those two people, i probably wouldn't put rari/skylar in there, but i'm not going to artificially move people in my towncore into a lower tier when i make posts just so that the rest of town agrees with it more. it is really frustrating that town expects full transparency when that isn't always the strategy and is how PRs get killed off
if no maf kill occurred n1 i'd be like, ok maybe herbe is just a wolf, but seshas still feels like a nearly random kill



Vipera Magnifica said:


> like seriously guys i get that mewtini had some kind of important role but like... the mafia could have still gone after the cop and blocked mewtini...


uh, are you talking about me surviving last night in re: my guess at villager herbe? i've been referring to me surviving n1. i believe rnp's story atm


----------



## rari_teh

and why would they cellar seshas of all people, who was even a wagon at one point of D1?

you know what? i’m a lover of science. let’s keep this lynchrace perfectly balanced, as all things should be. *vipera magnifica*


----------



## mewtini

so me/herbe on keldeo, rari/mist on VM? lmfao


----------



## Vipera Magnifica

Bluwiikoon said:


> But if Herbe is wolf why would wolfteam not shank mewtini on N1  Her role seems disruptive to wolf play


If Herbe is wolf why should we take the fact he inspected mewtini on _N1_ at face value

I'm still like... 50% certain that Herbe is mafia. I'm also 50% certain he's town.


----------



## mewtini

Vipera Magnifica said:


> If Herbe is wolf why should we take the fact he inspected mewtini on _N1_ at face value


we've talked about this. he and i talked about my role, i have reason to believe he knows it. he also apparently correctly identified butterfree's role (also he inspected me on n0, vm)


----------



## mewtini

mewtini said:


> if no maf kill occurred n1 i'd be like, ok maybe herbe is just a wolf, but seshas still feels like a nearly random kill


by which i mean: if i got healed or something and mafia targeted me


----------



## mewtini

mewtini said:


> it's possible that town power or something balances out a large outgroup


**ingroup


----------



## Vipera Magnifica

mewtini said:


> Vipera Magnifica said:
> 
> 
> 
> If Herbe is wolf why should we take the fact he inspected mewtini on _N1_ at face value
> 
> 
> 
> we've talked about this. he and i talked about my role, i have reason to believe he knows it. he also apparently correctly identified butterfree's role (also he inspected me on n0, vm)
Click to expand...

Yeah... you talked about the role on D2... how do you know he actually inspected you N0 and not N1

You can't discount the possibility of him doing that if he's mafia


----------



## mewtini

Vipera Magnifica said:


> Yeah... you talked about the role on D2... how do you know he actually inspected you N0 and not N1


because he hypocleared me on n0 and butterfree on n1


----------



## mewtini

i mean he could've just lied but. that is why i believe it for now.


----------



## Bluwiikoon

Tangy would never!!


----------



## mewtini

mewtini said:


> i mean he could've just lied but. that is why i believe it for now.


like he COULD have just said "mewtini green n0" on d1 and just ... decided to check me the night after instead ... ? that still doesn't make sense though, even if he technically could have done it


----------



## Vipera Magnifica

mewtini said:


> Vipera Magnifica said:
> 
> 
> 
> Yeah... you talked about the role on D2... how do you know he actually inspected you N0 and not N1
> 
> 
> 
> because he hypocleared me on n0 and butterfree on n1
Click to expand...

did he hypocop both of you in that order?

i see, yeah that seems too convoluted for w!herbe to do that in reverse order of the people he inspected

i am now at 80% sure Herbe is town


----------



## Keldeo

Not really here but like the mafia could easily have chosen to Doctor dodge or hunt for the cop or full doctor or something? but I think Herbe is town anyway as the counterwagon so this is just quibbling


----------



## mewtini

hahahaha, yeah. he posted about it on those respective days.


----------



## Vipera Magnifica

mewtini said:


> hahahaha, yeah. he posted about it on those respective days.


sorry, i didn't know about the hypoclear stuff

i see why some people keep a spreadsheet


----------



## mewtini

Keldeo said:


> Not really here but like the mafia could easily have chosen to Doctor dodge or hunt for the cop or full doctor or something? but I think Herbe is town anyway as the counterwagon so this is just quibbling


yeah i mean i acknowledge that herbe isn't actually locktown, i just won't be trying to lynch him all that soon



Vipera Magnifica said:


> sorry, i didn't know about the hypoclear stuff


no you're good! sorry if i was aggro. it has been a long day


----------



## Vipera Magnifica

mewtini said:


> Vipera Magnifica said:
> 
> 
> 
> sorry, i didn't know about the hypoclear stuff
> 
> 
> 
> no you're good! sorry if i was aggro. it has been a long day
Click to expand...

fwiw i thought i was the one being aggro, i think you were fine


----------



## Bluwiikoon

Mewtiniiii make sure you get some rest if you're in need of it!

I wanted to potentially play more spyro today but it is also super late  Alas


----------



## Trebek

mewtini said:


> it is really frustrating that town expects full transparency when that isn't always the strategy and is how PRs get killed off


i heavily agree with this, to the point where people continuously asking for transparency / getting annoyed about it lowkey pings me as mafia fishing for info

as a general thing, not at that point with anyone here just yet bc obviously people have different thought processes / approach the game differently


----------



## Vipera Magnifica

wow we still have 2 days left to discuss huh

i thought the day was ending tomorrow


----------



## mewtini

Vipera Magnifica said:


> wow we still have 2 days left to discuss huh
> 
> i thought the day was ending tomorrow


bro WHAT i thought the same


----------



## Trebek

yo does that mean i can sleep in tomorrow nice

jk im not going to anyways


----------



## Vipera Magnifica

Bluwiikoon said:


> I wanted to potentially play more spyro today but it is also super late  Alas


I still need to finish Spyro 3...


----------



## Trebek

i found my PSP buried under other stuff last night and have spent like the last 24 hours playing Puzzle Quest tbhtbh


----------



## Vipera Magnifica

I have just spent all day looking at MtG cards for my snakey commander deck

this isn't relevant to mafia at all

unless... somehow I make a game of Mafia: The Gathering


----------



## Vipera Magnifica

damn it ILS is the only one I know in this game who'd be able to give me ideas for that

I shouldn't have hypovigged him


----------



## Vipera Magnifica

okay

Please don,t beeb beeb
because i,m sleep ....


----------



## Trebek

Vipera Magnifica said:


> I have just spent all day looking at MtG cards for my snakey commander deck
> 
> this isn't relevant to mafia at all
> 
> unless... somehow I make a game of Mafia: The Gathering


wait dont sleep we need to talk about this plz


----------



## Vipera Magnifica

Trebek said:


> Vipera Magnifica said:
> 
> 
> 
> I have just spent all day looking at MtG cards for my snakey commander deck
> 
> this isn't relevant to mafia at all
> 
> unless... somehow I make a game of Mafia: The Gathering
> 
> 
> 
> wait dont sleep we need to talk about this plz
Click to expand...

sorry hildy it's too late



Spoiler


----------



## kyeugh

mewtini said:


> kyeugh said:
> 
> 
> 
> speaking of my hilarious jokes i’m pretty sure the mechanically correct thing to do is lynch rnp since ultracool flipped scum
> 
> 
> 
> are you just memeing about you being w/w/w with rnp and ultra, or are you fr
Click to expand...

 first one


rari_teh said:


> either the mafia’s play is, uh, subpar


 nods

i was already debating a rnp lynch this morning and he’s really making me simultaneously want it and back off it

i don’t hate a vm lynch i guess, but lowkey pretty sure he wasn’t lying about being vig. i think the test doesn’t make any sense unless he was going to be okay with an “idk” answer or has somehow been trying to get people to read him as vig for the whole game fsr 

i kind of feel for kennel which is going to make me feel so betrayed if he’s scum


----------



## Tangrowth

Good evening, everyone! I should actually have a solid chunk of time tonight to really dive into ISOs, looking forward to it!


----------



## kyeugh

kyeugh said:


> kennel


----------



## Trebek

kyeugh said:


> kyeugh said:
> 
> 
> 
> kennel
Click to expand...


----------



## Herbe

kyeugh said:


> kyeugh said:
> 
> 
> 
> kennel
Click to expand...

typo in the groupchat. get her ass


----------



## kyeugh

kennellllllllllll

not quite the same ring


----------



## Vipera Magnifica

bro you just posted kennel

you are going to gain reaction score


----------



## Trebek

Spoiler


----------



## Vipera Magnifica

who are the enemy of cats? dogs

and where does dog lives? _kennel_

keldeo is mafia

*mic drop*


----------



## RedneckPhoenix

btw i am Gus the Theatre Cat, and apparently i'm so annoying that i occupy someone's entire night by talking to them.


this is the second game in a row in which i block/jail by being so annoying the target can't function. i'm starting to think this is intentional


----------



## Tangrowth

Okay, I am here now, just checking in. I'm going to start ISOing now, but I'll also be around to realtime!


----------



## Trebek

btw, i might have just missed this, but did we actually confirm a bfree clear? or are we just going off the assumption that both fishing buds are town? which i am totally cool with, but want to make sure


----------



## mewtini

fishing brothers is traditionally town in old tcodf meta


----------



## Tangrowth

Trebek said:


> btw, i might have just missed this, but did we actually confirm a bfree clear? or are we just going off the assumption that both fishing buds are town? which i am totally cool with, but want to make sure


I would be shocked if the fishing buds role was scum personally.


----------



## mewtini

if it's something else here, then that's unfortunate tbh.


----------



## mewtini

how's it going m+7?!


----------



## Tangrowth

mewtini said:


> how's it going m+7?!


Pretty good, thanks for asking! I've been super busy. How are you?


----------



## mewtini

same on both fronts honestly! good to see you in Cats (2019) this fine evening (or morning, who knows)


----------



## Keldeo

Hey I'm here for a couple hours!

ISOed Ultracool real quick and I don't know if any of his posting in itself is super useful. Like he shades people, but he had so little influence that I don't feel like it really means anything. Here are most of his posts about living people:



Spoiler: Shade on kyeugh d1 and VM d2






Mr. Ultracool said:


> Well, I just found it weird that kyeugh posted this, because I don't get why the Mafia should care about the flavor:
> 
> 
> 
> actually i think the mafia should look at flavor more because every time we killed one of our own last game they glared at us in death and none of us noticed. just saying bro. just had to put that self own down
Click to expand...




Mr. Ultracool said:


> That said, isn't this
> 
> 
> Vipera Magnifica said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> kyeugh said:
> 
> 
> 
> pretty sure i know who the vig is tbh
> 
> 
> 
> can you elaborate on this?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> ]
> basically fishing, i.e. antitown play?
Click to expand...




I think the bottom quote here is interesting because he seems to sort of... presuppose (@ sanderidge) that kyeugh is town there - i.e. VM asking kyeugh to elaborate on a role read is only antitown if kyeugh is town, right. He did sort of the same thing with Emmy later on, in that shifting viewpoint thing where he sort of presumed she was town when he was asking her to claim, so I guess that reaffirms the read on kyeugh. 

He also didn't give any read on anyone involved in The Trebekkening despite mewtini's asking him about it multiple times, and he seemed hesitant to vote Herbe for some reason. But the way that the wagons moved just seems so weird to me if they're partners, plus mewtini's thing? I'll check that out. 


Spoiler






Mr. Ultracool said:


> Not really, no. It seemed like a pretty standard reaction test to me - though that might both be because the metas I've played in have been a bit different and because I might have skimmed over a few of the #973 posts.





Mr. Ultracool said:


> Keldeo said:
> 
> 
> 
> Uh hey Mr. Ultracool, I see you're reacting to stuff but not posting, do you have any thoughts?
> 
> 
> 
> I'm pretty surprised by both of the wagons that popped up, because herbe doesn't really seem all that scummy to me - however, I also know that I'm town, myself, so I'm absolutely unsure of what to do right now. For the moment, I'd rather vote *herbe*, although I'd really like to switch off again, later. Should I perhaps claim my role? It would perhaps explain some things that made me seem scummy.
Click to expand...


----------



## Tangrowth

mewtini said:


> same on both fronts honestly! good to see you in Cats (2019) this fine evening (or morning, who knows)


Evening for me, but thank you, and likewise!


----------



## Tangrowth

Hello, Keldeo! Oooh, awesome, I'll take a look.


----------



## Keldeo

Hey MP. How much have you read, and how are you feeling about the game right now?


----------



## Trebek

mewtini said:


> fishing brothers is traditionally town in old tcodf meta





M Plus 7 said:


> Trebek said:
> 
> 
> 
> btw, i might have just missed this, but did we actually confirm a bfree clear? or are we just going off the assumption that both fishing buds are town? which i am totally cool with, but want to make sure
> 
> 
> 
> I would be shocked if the fishing buds role was scum personally.
Click to expand...

ill take it from the two of you, sounds good enough for me!


----------



## Tangrowth

Keldeo said:


> Hey MP. How much have you read, and how are you feeling about the game right now?


I have not read anything since the flip, haha, but I am ISOing Blu now actually! Any suggestions for who I should look at after that?

I'm feeling pretty good considering we now have a red flip to use as a basis for analysis! How about you?


----------



## mewtini

M Plus 7 said:


> Any suggestions for who I should look at after that?


my PoE right now is koko/keldeo/mist/tofu/you/blu if that helps


----------



## mewtini

also i am indeed around but i think i'm letting this game stress me out a bit too much, lol, so i'm forcing myself to be a bit more laid back tonight :p am available though


----------



## Keldeo

Mist1422 said:


> but would there really be an outgroup in the smaller setup?


Oh yeah, wait, the setup started with 4 mafia and then any additional members would have been vanilla, right? That doesn't actually seem like enough for there to be an outgroup.


----------



## mewtini

ohhhhh, yeah, i always forget to scale my setup-thoughts to the 14-player version ...


----------



## Keldeo

I mean... maybe three mafia and a terrorist or something? Because the outgroup would also have to be a power role.


----------



## Tangrowth

mewtini said:


> M Plus 7 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Any suggestions for who I should look at after that?
> 
> 
> 
> my PoE right now is koko/keldeo/mist/tofu/you/blu if that helps
Click to expand...

That is good to know, thanks! Do you mind pointing me towards a post of yours where you have reasons? Actually, maybe I'll just peek inside your ISO.


----------



## Tangrowth

mewtini said:


> also i am indeed around but i think i'm letting this game stress me out a bit too much, lol, so i'm forcing myself to be a bit more laid back tonight :p am available though


I totally understand that.


----------



## Tangrowth

Keldeo said:


> Mist1422 said:
> 
> 
> 
> but would there really be an outgroup in the smaller setup?
> 
> 
> 
> Oh yeah, wait, the setup started with 4 mafia and then any additional members would have been vanilla, right? That doesn't actually seem like enough for there to be an outgroup.
Click to expand...

What's an outgroup? Not familiar with that term, haha.


----------



## mewtini

M Plus 7 said:


> That is good to know, thanks! Do you mind pointing me towards a post of yours where you have reasons? Actually, maybe I'll just peek inside your ISO.


2629 is where i last talked about it. disclaimer tbh that my PoE is kind of reasonless, it's just that i have a really big pool of townreads/mech clears that i'm going off of. and that i'm probably semiwrong about


----------



## mewtini

M Plus 7 said:


> What's an outgroup? Not familiar with that term, haha.


outgroup mafia wins with the mafia but doesn't communicate with the main/ingroup mafia (or doesn't know who they are?)


----------



## Tangrowth

mewtini said:


> M Plus 7 said:
> 
> 
> 
> That is good to know, thanks! Do you mind pointing me towards a post of yours where you have reasons? Actually, maybe I'll just peek inside your ISO.
> 
> 
> 
> 2629 is where i last talked about it. disclaimer tbh that my PoE is kind of reasonless, it's just that i have a really big pool of townreads/mech clears that i'm going off of. and that i'm probably semiwrong about
Click to expand...

Awesome, thanks!


----------



## Tangrowth

mewtini said:


> M Plus 7 said:
> 
> 
> 
> What's an outgroup? Not familiar with that term, haha.
> 
> 
> 
> outgroup mafia wins with the mafia but doesn't communicate with the main/ingroup mafia (or doesn't know who they are?)
Click to expand...

Ohhh, okay, like lost wolf. Got it.


----------



## Keldeo

mewtini said:


> it is also like ... just _my_ towncore. *i* have reasons to put them there. i fully don't expect anyone else to sheep me on it


Wait, mewtini, should I or should I not be sheeping you on rari / kyeugh / Herbe, haha


----------



## mewtini

Keldeo said:


> Wait, mewtini, should I or should I not be sheeping you on rari / kyeugh / Herbe, haha


oh i mean, i would very much appreciate if you'd sheep me on them :>


----------



## mewtini

but my point in context was that if i weren't me/didn't have certain intel, i probably would not be towncoring them either, even though i think that they've been towny enough (i am admittedly getting a bit paranoid about herbe, need to figure that out)


----------



## mewtini

i kinda think that if herbe is indeed town (to be clear, i'm still townleaning him) then mafia probably has a rolecop to balance it out? is that a fair assumption ...


----------



## Trebek

yeah im inclined to townlean herbe still (unless im only thinking of n levels of wifom and hes at n+1 lmao), and i would be willing to bet that if one rolecop exists, then one also exists on the other side (if that is the case, thats even more reason to TR herbe since the other one hasnt claimed if they exist)


----------



## Herbe

mewtini said:


> i kinda think that if herbe is indeed town (to be clear, i'm still townleaning him) then mafia probably has a rolecop to balance it out? is that a fair assumption ...


maybe something like a framer to fuck with my results


----------



## mewtini

Herbe said:


> maybe something like a framer to fuck with my results


hmmm.
why would that be the case. framer is alignment-based yeah?


----------



## Trebek

there could be a framer-type that interacts with herbe, but frankly that seems too niche/seems like it would tip the mafia off to the existence of a rolecop since they dont show up every game


----------



## mewtini

Trebek said:


> yeah im inclined to townlean herbe still (unless im only thinking of n levels of wifom and hes at n+1 lmao), and i would be willing to bet that if one rolecop exists, then one also exists on the other side (if that is the case, thats even more reason to TR herbe since the other one hasnt claimed if they exist)


that's my thing. it is possible for herbe to be mafia and i don't really wanna mislead you guys into never actually checking him out, it's just that i kinda think myself into circles when i consider [redacted]. idrk what you mean by the second half though, tbh, it would be a counterclaim opportunity :/


----------



## Herbe

mewtini said:


> Herbe said:
> 
> 
> 
> maybe something like a framer to fuck with my results
> 
> 
> 
> hmmm.
> why would that be the case. framer is alignment-based yeah?
Click to expand...

idk, if i announce who i'm checking, a framer could target my target and make them look like Godfather or something (Or red for Emmy) and that would be a pretty powerful anti rolecop role, since a) wrong answer, mislynch and b) possibility of lynching me bc i was wrong


----------



## mewtini

what i mean is that i don't think a _role_ framer makes sense unless something is just weird here. that goes above my mafia-role-knowledge paygrade.


----------



## Herbe

also, if we want to cat clear me:
-i claimed victoria
-no one counterclaimed 
-why would a role exist to get a cat's name so mafia can claim that cat after the OG is dead. that sounds dumb and unrealistic
-victoria is obvi in the game
-shes a main character and Good Cat
-if cats have bearing on role, >rand chance I'm town


----------



## Herbe

mewtini said:


> what i mean is that i don't think a _role_ framer makes sense unless something is just weird here. that goes above my mafia-role-knowledge paygrade.


fair enough, i just imagined it as regular framer, that inserts like Mafioso or something generic in there


----------



## Herbe

this is mega stream of consciousness by the way


----------



## Trebek

mewtini said:


> Trebek said:
> 
> 
> 
> yeah im inclined to townlean herbe still (unless im only thinking of n levels of wifom and hes at n+1 lmao), and i would be willing to bet that if one rolecop exists, then one also exists on the other side (if that is the case, thats even more reason to TR herbe since the other one hasnt claimed if they exist)
> 
> 
> 
> that's my thing. it is possible for herbe to be mafia and i don't really wanna mislead you guys into never actually checking him out, it's just that i kinda think myself into circles when i consider [redacted]. idrk what you mean by the second half though, tbh, it would be a counterclaim opportunity :/
Click to expand...

i might have wifomed myself into the wrong conclusion on the second half now that i think about it lmao


----------



## Herbe

Herbe said:


> also, if we want to cat clear me:
> -i claimed victoria
> -no one counterclaimed
> -why would a role exist to get a cat's name so mafia can claim that cat after the OG is dead. that sounds dumb and unrealistic
> -victoria is obvi in the game
> -shes a main character and Good Cat
> -if cats have bearing on role, >rand chance I'm town


*if cats have bearing on alignment


----------



## Keldeo

M Plus 7 said:


> Keldeo said:
> 
> 
> 
> Hey MP. How much have you read, and how are you feeling about the game right now?
> 
> 
> 
> I have not read anything since the flip, haha, but I am ISOing Blu now actually! Any suggestions for who I should look at after that?
> 
> I'm feeling pretty good considering we now have a red flip to use as a basis for analysis! How about you?
Click to expand...

Hm, cool, okay. Why'd you start with Blu?

Me and VM are the wagons right now so it'd be interesting to get your takes on them.

I'm feeling pretty similar, but I was getting paranoid about Ultracool being outgroup meaning interactions don't matter, but maybe I shouldn't be?


----------



## mewtini

Herbe said:


> fair enough, i just imagined it as regular framer, that inserts like Mafioso or something generic in there


when alignment-neutral role titles exist (as we know) i think a town rolecop's success just gets left up to luck tbh.



Herbe said:


> also, if we want to cat clear me:
> -i claimed victoria
> -no one counterclaimed
> -why would a role exist to get a cat's name so mafia can claim that cat after the OG is dead. that sounds dumb and unrealistic
> -victoria is obvi in the game
> -shes a main character and Good Cat
> -if cats have bearing on role, >rand chance I'm town


what do you mean by #3?
also, i don't think cats have bearing on alignment (except for a very few roles that i'm pretty sure are attached to certain cats, aside from macavity) but this also doesn't do very much other than solidify that you were telling the truth about your role itself, which i think thread reached consensus on :o it would be lowkey tragic if victoria ended up being fucking mafia here though, omg.

what other #thoughts do you have? (ps when you popped up in thread i got really paranoid that i left you on read and then i realized it was my fault for just saying 'omg F'.,)


----------



## mewtini

lol i literally forgot vm was a wagon


----------



## Keldeo

mewtini said:


> i kinda think that if herbe is indeed town (to be clear, i'm still townleaning him) then mafia probably has a rolecop to balance it out? is that a fair assumption ...





Trebek said:


> yeah im inclined to townlean herbe still (unless im only thinking of n levels of wifom and hes at n+1 lmao), and i would be willing to bet that if one rolecop exists, then one also exists on the other side (if that is the case, thats even more reason to TR herbe since the other one hasnt claimed if they exist)


Can you explain this one to me? Maybe it's because it's late but I don't understand the relevance of both sides having a rolecop.


----------



## mewtini

Keldeo said:


> I'm feeling pretty similar, but I was getting paranoid about Ultracool being outgroup meaning interactions don't matter, but maybe I shouldn't be?


yeah now that the 14 setup thing with outgroup was pointed out i realize that maybe it's a nonfactor, thank god
it's going to be mildly difficult to figure out reads via interactions though i think considering that. i led the "but ultracool did this as town!" force, heh ... but Try We Must.


----------



## mewtini

Keldeo said:


> Can you explain this one to me? Maybe it's because it's late but I don't understand the relevance of both sides having a rolecop.


mostly i'm thinking that rolecop is a relatively powerful role for mafia and that it's mildly weird if we have a rolecop + cop and they have ???, but maybe i just keep thinking this because i keep remembering that rolecop is an either-alignment role. just reflexively trying to balance it out, idk - i think the idea came up earlier and i'm just regurgitating it now


----------



## Herbe

mewtini said:


> (ps when you popped up in thread i got really paranoid that i left you on read and then i realized it was my fault for just saying 'omg F'.,)


irl laughing at this



mewtini said:


> what do you mean by #3?


I was devils advocating myself and being like "ooooooooo if w!herbe had a mafia buddy that could ID cat names you could have just stolen that from like, mawile or somebody" but realised that was ridiculous so i just wrote down why it was ridiculous


mewtini said:


> when alignment-neutral role titles exist (as we know) i think a town rolecop's success just gets left up to luck tbh.


yeah looking back this was just stream of consciousness bs since i don't get alignment info anyway. didn't think abt that one too hard :/ vanilla mafioso probably just shows up as vanilla to me


----------



## Trebek

Keldeo said:


> mewtini said:
> 
> 
> 
> i kinda think that if herbe is indeed town (to be clear, i'm still townleaning him) then mafia probably has a rolecop to balance it out? is that a fair assumption ...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Trebek said:
> 
> 
> 
> yeah im inclined to townlean herbe still (unless im only thinking of n levels of wifom and hes at n+1 lmao), and i would be willing to bet that if one rolecop exists, then one also exists on the other side (if that is the case, thats even more reason to TR herbe since the other one hasnt claimed if they exist)
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Can you explain this one to me? Maybe it's because it's late but I don't understand the relevance of both sides having a rolecop.
Click to expand...

pretty sure it was a bad take from me bc tired

my initial thought was if town and maf rolecops exist, v!rolecop claiming would make w!rolecop afraid to claim

but then i remembered that theres literally no way to tell them apart so w!rolecop would just counterclaim and there goes my logic down the drain


----------



## mewtini

Herbe said:


> vanilla mafioso probably just shows up as vanilla to me


lmfao can you imagine

*JackPK to Herbe:* <player> is a *Mafia Goon.
Herbe to self:* nice


----------



## mewtini

the real dream is getting "Vanilla" for either VT or goon. hahaha


----------



## Trebek

oh god that would be so scary


----------



## Keldeo

mewtini said:


> the real dream is getting "Vanilla" for either VT or goon. hahaha


If Herbe's town, I'd assume this is what he would get, ftr. I guess it might not have been a design decision that would have factored in in the original game, though, since no one would have been vanilla.


----------



## Keldeo

Either that or like, Vanilla and Goon or Townie and Goon, maybe.


----------



## mewtini

hey herbe. was ILS a PR?


----------



## mewtini

also


Herbe said:


> irl laughing at this


:((((


----------



## mewtini

also, fwiw. if ultracool is ingroup then VM looks really good tbh.


----------



## mewtini

mewtini said:


> also, fwiw. if ultracool is ingroup then VM looks really good tbh.


on the other hand i thought VM was tunnelling ultracool as it was happening so now i'm back to "long-con bus?"land


----------



## Herbe

mewtini said:


> hey herbe. was ILS a PR?


yes


----------



## Herbe

that's why i'm so cautious about spilling his role :/ if he was vanilla i just would have said he's vanilla lmao


----------



## mewtini

yeah i probably should've just assumed he had a power role from your response earlier, i kinda forgot until the second after i'd asked :')


----------



## Keldeo

Oh @M Plus 7 actually, whenever you're done with that ISO I'd be interested in a general reads list / rainbow / gun-to-head thing from you. I feel like I don't have a good idea of where your head is at in general.


----------



## Keldeo

Ahh sorry I keep getting distracted. 



Keldeo said:


> I think I’m going to live in the world where Ultracool was I group for tonight so I can be more productive doing some ISOing when I get back, but it’d be cool for people to talk to me about what wagon they think his partners would be on, in that case?
> 
> He’d be an easy target for sure and so maybe they saw the writing on the wall about that and just went for it, but if Herbe is town I’m kind of puzzled by that choice given how contested EOD was. I’m also maybe underestimating how bussy the average wolf is heh.


No one answered my open question :(



Mist1422 said:


> that is also fair and I would not say that I am not illiterate!
> 
> I do think *Vipera Magnifica* does indeed look pretty bad though from how yesterday went down with the flipflopping on herbe


@Mist1422 what do you mean by flipflopping on Herbe?

mewtini, are you still around - is there any read in particular that you'd like me to look at or shore up? Otherwise I'll just try to power through some more ISOs of people who aren't clear.


----------



## Keldeo

Keldeo said:


> @Mist1422 what do you mean by flipflopping on Herbe?


or like what specifically you're thinking about / can you expand a bit more on what you meant here and what you're thinking about now given VM's counterclaim of Ultracool?


----------



## mewtini

Keldeo said:


> No one answered my open question :(


haha oops. i have no clue honestly. given that the tides flipped right at the end i assume they'd be pretty split, yeah? some bussing him, and in the world where we assume herbe is town, some trying to give enough weight to the town PR wagon



Keldeo said:


> mewtini, are you still around - is there any read in particular that you'd like me to look at or shore up? Otherwise I'll just try to power through some more ISOs of people who aren't clear.


kokorico/m+7, maybe? i looked through both, mostly the latter, but wouldn't mind a keldeopinion


----------



## Trebek

Keldeo said:


> No one answered my open question :(


honestly, i wonder if mafia decided to vote half and half between the two trains? if they saw the writing on the wall, then maybe they decided that if they split between the two, then no matter what train we thought they were on we wouldnt be able to figure everything out? this is just sorta rambly/stream of consciousness and would also imply that the mafia voting UC werent on at the end of EoD, since the vote tipped over by only 1 and any maf could have swung that back around

or both trains were w/w and i just suck


----------



## mewtini

lol ryan and i fucking mindmelded


----------



## mewtini

oh actually i read past 'half and half' and we didn't totally but i'll take it


----------



## Trebek

mewtini said:


> lol ryan and i fucking mindmelded


hehe


----------



## Trebek

mewtini said:


> oh actually i read past 'half and half' and we didn't totally but i'll take it


yeah, i think i was considering a more premeditated split, but its also totally possible that it was just "EoD crazy many things happening"


----------



## mewtini

mewtini said:


> oh actually i read past 'half and half' and we didn't totally but i'll take it


wait, nvm. i misread. yes i agree tbh.


----------



## Trebek

reading hard :(


----------



## Keldeo

So MP7 is interesting because like I said, I guess I was... expecting more from him? I was giving him some space early on because I know he's legitimately pretty busy so I don't really want to hold that against him. 

Their ISO is mostly real-timing/questions, and I feel like I don't gain a lot from that especially because most of their questions are somewhat objective information-seeking that could come from either alignment. I have a hard time seeing how exactly they're synthesizing the answers to their other questions in arriving at reads because they haven't posted most of their reads. 

EOD1 they swapped between Stryke and myuma a bunch, which I read in the moment as an indecisive town trying to do the right thing with incomplete info, but could probably also be compatible with mafia who didn't actually care who got yeeted there. 

I think their approach to EOD2 yields the most for analysis right now. They essentially townread Ultracool for sincerity in one post d1 and then maintained that as a light townread/towny vibes into d2, so their switch onto Ultracool after ISOing Herbe looks pretty good for them given that, tbh. However, their EOD2 post on Herbe was pretty waffly, a good amount of "I guess this could be mafia or town," not super deep analysis - I could see that as possibly setting up a late-EOD swap back onto Herbe or something. They didn't actually do that after Ultracool claimed, though (the last quote here is at :01, which looks decent.) Any other thoughts on this would be appreciated.


Spoiler: some Ultracool/Herbe posts






M Plus 7 said:


> Mr. Ultracool said:
> 
> 
> 
> I'm really, really sorry for not posting, like, at all, but I just genuinely can't manage to read anything of relevance out of toDay. The only things I found even slightly suspicious were the WIFOM-Macavity Claim and kyeugh imploring the Mafia to read more into the kill flavor, since they are pretty much the only ones who would know exactly why and how someone was killed :/
> 
> 
> 
> This naturally reads sincere to me.
Click to expand...




M Plus 7 said:


> Herbe ISO
> 
> It is occasionally a bit difficult to sift through the shitposting and manner of speaking to find the real content here, but I think I see enough to give pause for the current wagon.
> 
> A general beef I have with Herbe's posting is that the game-related content to non-game-related content ratio is really bad... could indicate that Herbe is having trouble manufacturing reads.
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Herbe said:
> 
> 
> 
> i have the strongest feeling that im gonna get mislynched like D2 lmao
> my past sins haunt me
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This feels a bit overly self-aware but in a concerned way. It's a slight read, but I give more townie points than not to this. Some scum players *think* to post stuff like this, others don't, and I'm making a determination that this is more likely due to a genuine concern than not.
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Herbe said:
> 
> 
> 
> if it's time to start airing reads, copcover mewtini is acting cool and townie (or 3p shrugtownie like last game lmao)
> very interested in bluwiikoon!!! would love to hear more from him, but the vibes are good there
> 
> not much else stands out to me right now
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This is the first real reads post from what I could tell... it could go either way, but "not much else stands out to me right now" the sentiment combined with the diction feels a bit open. Most of Herbe's posts fall into this category from what I can tell, and it is difficult to make a true read. However...
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Herbe said:
> 
> 
> 
> Ughhhhhhhhhhhhh I'm so frustrated with myself. I failed to consider that if I played to my usual towngame early on in TVT, that immediately after my reputation would be tarnished when I'm actually town. Of course, "usual" is a stretch here, cause I haven't played forum mafia in forever, but I was legitimately trying to be town early on. I literally psyched myself out of knowing what happened to Jack d1 (I killed him) and I was like omg this flavor IS so weird!! I wonder what the hell happened??? Who killed jack????? like, in my head. not even performatively. kyeugh, you can vouch, in scumchat when i was losing my mind and mf was like "go to sleep herbe."
> 
> I also make this point because I have to pay attention to the fact that kyeugh and i are not a scumteam anymore and she's not distancing me, she's literally just reading me. And I know that I probably shouldn't be so meta cause that's not gonna wiggle me out of any scumreads but I'm not gonna censor my stream of consiousness for the sake of reads.
> 
> Re: keldeo
> 
> 
> Keldeo said:
> 
> 
> 
> random question, do you think you like being mafia or town better?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Ask me again at the end of this game, cause I haven't played a game to its finish as town in recent memory. Right now I'm inclined to say mafia. It comes so much easier to me,,,,, also I miss having partners. I miss mawile!!!!! OOT communication is my favorite and I miss being able to bounce ideas off of other players. If anyone wants to loverize me (for real this time) please do!
> 
> Anyway I just re-caught up with the thread (and woke up for the day) so yeah. this post is long enough
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm not too sure, but if I had to guess I don't think this post comes from scum as often as it does from town. It's too stream-of-consciousness, for one, from my perception of the way Herbe plays and in general... I don't think scum!Herbe thinks to make a post this long-winded because they may be concerned they're overdoing it. What really stands out to me though is the underlined sentence, that seems like a genuine thought. With that said, I suppose scum!Herbe could playing that up for lack of being able to force genuine reads and such, so it's not definitive or anything.
> 
> That's all behavioral, which is more my forte to say the least. As for the claim... I could see it being fake given what already is purported to be claimed by Emmy being cop. I don't know that town cop + town role cop seems balanced.
> 
> Personally though, I think I see enough potential for townieness here that I'd rather go for Ultracool than Herbe, so...
> 
> *vote Ultracool*
Click to expand...




M Plus 7 said:


> I am likewise confused, please clarify UC?
> 
> Otherwise I'll stay with UC as my vote.








Spoiler: silly read






M Plus 7 said:


> Also, your specific version of your avatar here is awesome, Keldeo. Probably my favorite from what I've seen. It's extra mystic or something.


[man and butterfly meme] is this a pocket attempt?



tl;dr... the switch onto Ultracool is probably the towniest thing here, it reads more like "ehh Herbe is townier" than "Ultracool is mafia", which would garner less cred if it were a bus. But body of work is lacking - they have a kind of bare ISO, and I haven't been able to get into their head and see them process/solve for the most part. That's somewhat problematic to me because I'm pretty sure if they make their process transparent and I can really dig in then they're town.

I'm interested in this Blu ISO that they're apparently doing, and reads in general, but I guess they're probably no longer here, which. Hm. I guess we still have tomorrow?


----------



## Keldeo

I really feel like I should have a better idea about MP7 based on all that but I kind of don't. I dunno, maybe that in itself should be a signal that something's up? Or am I just not weighing their vote enough?


Don't have time to do a full kokorico ISO so I just searched for Ultracool mentions, I may look more at em in the morning but I think e's low on my priority list right now just based on that. These aren't out of the realm of bussing, but I think e looks fairly good from these where e tries to put suspicion onto Ultracool on d1 and d2:



Spoiler






kokorico said:


> I guess I could get behind Ultracool - clearly keeping up with the reacts, but hasn't said much at all.





kokorico said:


> at the moment I think the best option is one of the relatively inactives/lurkers, like ultracool or maybe M+7?






I thiiink e was the first person to call out the Herbe wagon being enormously lopsided / proposing v/v, which e probably didn't need to do if e was mafia with Mr. Ultracool. I am wondering, though, @kokorico during last EOD did it occur to you to try to push forward a third wagon, if you thought neither was a great option? Who would you have pushed if viability was not a consideration?



kokorico said:


> Trebek said:
> 
> 
> 
> what i’m asking myself about herbe rn is: if we think that we can get more information about his alignment in the future (be it through a cop check or just herbe posting more), which is more detrimental to town? killing off a v!rolecop, or letting a w!rolecop get another check off?
> 
> 
> 
> ooh this is a good point
> 
> probably the former tbqh
> 
> ......swapping so close to eod probably doesn't look great for me, huh, but fine, *Ultracool*
> 
> (I still think Ultracool is less likely to be mafia but the town utility argument is a strong one)
Click to expand...

Also, this post is kind of weird to make as Ultracool's mafia partner imo. Like, if this is a bus, all the credit for eir vote goes to Trebek, while e also doesn't even get credit anyway because e's still pushing Ultracool as less likely to be mafia, and again this is more "not a vote for Herbe" than "a vote for Ultracool". Does that make sense?


----------



## Keldeo

Also eir paranoia about weirdness with mewtini and rari feels like TMI-less paranoia in the (insert poptepic "aah, so it's like that" reaction image) way given that mewtini is cop cleared and apparently 100% trusts rari.

Had some thoughts about Blu, but now I kind of want to hold them back until after MP7 posts their ISO.

Trebek is town for now for me based on that last-minute vote switch. I'm... wary that I did a pretty similar thing in my first wolfgame that had people clearing me until LYLO, so I guess I just think we should keep in mind that he shouldn't be mindlessly cleared.

I'm willing to accept RNP's claim at face value, but I don't think jailer is necessarily a town role given what we've seen so far this setup and some ideas I have about how Jack designs things. I can expand on these reasons later. 

The combined weight of things in favor of VM/Tofu (both of them clearing each other, VM counterclaiming Ultracool) feels like... maybe flighty compared to other things? That's definitely not the right word, someone ask me to explain this later if that doesn't make sense, which it probably doesn't. I remember VM being very willing to switch onto Ultracool after his kyeugh push, though, so I'll ISO both for interactions later.

Gotta reread Superjolt from d1 and Mist's earlier posting, and of course they voted Ultracool over Herbe, but Mist's analysis of the wagons today felt kind of shallow/procedural to me. I think if they're mafia the conclusions they drew make it very plausible that exactly MP is their partner, and they both bussed Ultracool to pick up credit from a flagging thread position. 

I think that's everyone outside the consensus core? I definitely do not have enough mafia, but I don't really know who I'm misclearing in a ingroup Ultracool world, hm. 

Feedback/discussion of any of these reads would be appreciated.

*Vote M Plus 7* for now. Come do stuff!


----------



## Tofu

I don't like posting unless I have a legit observation to post but I just felt the need to say that, based on the new discussions since I was here earlier today, it's just... Very likely there are multiple scum in people's cleared lists. The numbers don't add up based on what I know.



Bluwiikoon said:


> VM and tofu COULD both be wolves actually, since Tofu was given VM's role in code and didn't try to lynch him either. Or they're both green and Trebek played us all


(what did Trebek do re vm/my roles? I missed something?)

As for the me/vm thing with one of us being mafia, just... lol. I understand questioning of our roles based on the fact that there must be something off in some of the lists, but it's pointing in the wrong direction.

Blu, why in the heck would either of us give each other our (correct) roles if one of us were mafia? We would already know each other were mafia if we were both in-group (barring a third party role). I know I can't really prove this but it'd be extremely difficult for one of the two of us to lie about being town to the other (and, seriously, well played if this is the case, but there is Evidence I don't want to reveal because I don't want anyone to know either of our roles.).

Also, @Bluwiikoon , I'd like to know why you wanted the mafia to think emmy was an alien to cover up the cop role, only to reveal it the next day, when the mafia would see that and surely be trying to kill her next chance they get? And would likely keep trying? I find this solution short-sighted and wonder what you thought would happen next/long-term with this.

I had initially been kind of clear on Skylar but now I'm wondering why again she's pushing for people to read vm as the vig. Why would town want to expose the vig role? I feel like we already have enough of an obligation now that our (theoretical) cop has been outed and feel like we need to protect emmy. So... Why would we want mafia to know about two more "important" roles? I don't like.

This space reserved for me grumping about the unproductiveness of "science" voting.



Trebek said:


> mewtini said:
> 
> 
> 
> fishing brothers is traditionally town in old tcodf meta
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> M Plus 7 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Trebek said:
> 
> 
> 
> btw, i might have just missed this, but did we actually confirm a bfree clear? or are we just going off the assumption that both fishing buds are town? which i am totally cool with, but want to make sure
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I would be shocked if the fishing buds role was scum personally.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> ill take it from the two of you, sounds good enough for me!
Click to expand...

There are these twin calico cats who drug everyone in the movie (forgot their names, went back and found my post 1347 where I mentioned this):


Tofu said:


> I kind of wonder if any "twin" cats (Mungojerrie/Rumpleteazer or Plato and Socrates but the latter look like really minor characters I only found when I googled who the twin cats were) are inflating the mafia-aligned numbers (just by one I guess, but still) but if they are going to be like classic a twin/lovers role they'd both just die if one of them did. In the movie the calico ones (don't make me type Mungjeraoeunth/Ruda,.ic,au) were Macavity aligned for part of it so it's possible


A scum-aligned (or 3p what?) fishing brothers wouldn't be totally out of the picture based on the Cats lore imo, but I'm not sure how much I believe it yet because I like Butterfree's thoughts. But I'm keeping it in mind. Those two characters are burglar cats who later feel bad about drugging everyone at the end so they could maybe go either way... Or 3p, which would be weird and I'm not sure how that role would really work.

I need to go back and ISO people who I don't have opinions on (M+7, Trebek, Keldeo, Kokorico) before I contribute more.

canyoureallytrustanyone.jpg


----------



## Tofu

Sorry I meant to quote this under my bit about Skylar above (mostly so I can find it later without swimming in ISO)



kyeugh said:


> i don’t hate a vm lynch i guess, but lowkey pretty sure he wasn’t lying about being vig. i think the test doesn’t make any sense unless he was going to be okay with an “idk” answer or has somehow been trying to get people to read him as vig for the whole game fsr


----------



## Butterfree

(I am working on catching up intermittently, bear with me)



Vipera Magnifica said:


> I did find it a little odd how Blu parked on Herbe even though he was suspecting Emmy of being an alien... but their excuse of protecting the cop _kinda _makes sense?


For what it’s worth, hoping to dissuade the mafia from targeting Emmy is exactly what I assumed Bluwiikoon was doing there. There was some particular post that especially glaringly hinted this to me, but I can’t be assed to find it right now. Even if Bluwiikoon is mafia, I don’t think there’s any way this is a walkback; it’d have been planned as an effort to appear to be trying to help town.


----------



## Butterfree

Trebek said:


> mewtini said:
> 
> 
> 
> that's probably NAI isn't it? w!herbe would know that emmy would come back with something making it clear she got [mafia] roleblocked (unless you're saying he just blames it on a hypothetical town roleblocker or something like that)
> 
> 
> 
> aw heck, you’re probably right, but part of me still wants to believe w!herbe would still have an easier time justifying 2 roleblockers than coming up with a fake role for a dead person
> 
> basically i’m TRing herbe for more reasons than just [redacted]
Click to expand...

He didn’t actually come up with a fake role for a dead person, though? He went “oh I totally inspected ILS but I’m not going to tell you what his role was because it’d help the mafia”? Did I miss something?


----------



## Bluwiikoon

Tofu said:


> I don't like posting unless I have a legit observation to post but I just felt the need to say that, based on the new discussions since I was here earlier today, it's just... Very likely there are multiple scum in people's cleared lists. The numbers don't add up based on what I know.
> 
> 
> 
> Bluwiikoon said:
> 
> 
> 
> VM and tofu COULD both be wolves actually, since Tofu was given VM's role in code and didn't try to lynch him either. Or they're both green and Trebek played us all
> 
> 
> 
> (what did Trebek do re vm/my roles? I missed something?)
Click to expand...

Trebek is unrelated to you guys; I basically posted a list of who I'd suspect of being red/green and I gave Trebek a green. Since I'm also green, that would mean only one of you/VM would be green if we accept there's five mafia left. However, after that I then realised that you two would have to be the same alignment (or one of you lied to the other).



> As for the me/vm thing with one of us being mafia, just... lol. I understand questioning of our roles based on the fact that there must be something off in some of the lists, but it's pointing in the wrong direction.
> 
> Blu, why in the heck would either of us give each other our (correct) roles if one of us were mafia? We would already know each other were mafia if we were both in-group (barring a third party role). I know I can't really prove this but it'd be extremely difficult for one of the two of us to lie about being town to the other (and, seriously, well played if this is the case, but there is Evidence I don't want to reveal because I don't want anyone to know either of our roles.).


Idk I'm not very smart :( I'm sowwy



> Also, @Bluwiikoon , I'd like to know why you wanted the mafia to think emmy was an alien to cover up the cop role, only to reveal it the next day, when the mafia would see that and surely be trying to kill her next chance they get? And would likely keep trying? I find this solution short-sighted and wonder what you thought would happen next/long-term with this.


I mean, everyone kept discussing matters as if Emmy was definitely cop, so I don't think anyone bought my alienposting. I didn't know we had multiple protective roles too, so hopefully Emmy is reasonably safe for now? I just felt that if I kept alienposting it would be more detrimental to town. Again, nobody seemed to buy it anyway so it probably didn't even protect Emmy.  

Again, I'm not very smart!


----------



## Butterfree

mewtini said:


> mewtini said:
> 
> 
> 
> if no maf kill occurred n1 i'd be like, ok maybe herbe is just a wolf, but seshas still feels like a nearly random kill
> 
> 
> 
> by which i mean: if i got healed or something and mafia targeted me
Click to expand...

It bothers me that nobody’s considering the possibility of a) some form of redirection, b) mafia not thinking mewtini’s role is so important it should be the immediate nightkill, c) mafia assuming mewtini might get healed, etc.


----------



## Vipera Magnifica

mewtini said:


> i kinda think that if herbe is indeed town (to be clear, i'm still townleaning him) then mafia probably has a rolecop to balance it out? is that a fair assumption ...





Trebek said:


> yeah im inclined to townlean herbe still (unless im only thinking of n levels of wifom and hes at n+1 lmao), and i would be willing to bet that if one rolecop exists, then one also exists on the other side (if that is the case, thats even more reason to TR herbe since the other one hasnt claimed if they exist)


I have never once seen a game where both town and mafia had a rolecop and I heavily doubt Jack would do this


----------



## Tofu

Mist1422 said:


> Moved off of ultracool at the 8v2, voted herbe at EoD: {VM, Keldeo, kyuegh}
> Stayed on ultracool between 8v2 and EoD: {tofu, trebek, rari, *Herbe, mewtini*}
> Moved onto the ultracool wagon between 8v2 and EoD: {*Mist*, MP7, koko}
> off-wagon through EoD: {RNP, *Emmy*}
> Weren't voting Ultracool at any point, ended on herbe: {*ILS, Butterfree, Ultra, *Blu}
> 
> cutting out the clears we end up with:
> {VM, Keldeo, kyuegh}
> {tofu, trebek, rari}
> {MP7, koko}
> {RNP}
> {Blu}
> in order
> 
> Probably 2-3 scum in the first one, one in the second, none in the third, and one in {RNP/Blu}
> 
> So if I had to give a solve it'd be VM/Keldeo/kyuegh/Blu/tofu, with tofu swappable with trebek/rari


My list is kind of like

Scum somewhere between kyeugh, mist, maybe rari?
I dunno about mp7, blu, koko, keldeo, trebek yet (have to go read and I will try I promise) but statistically should have a few scum in there
rnp is just, chaotic neutral/what

I'm also not wholly convinced of a few of the people who have been omitted from this list, but I know you based it on the UC votes. Still, I'm placing you in my suspicious list now purely because of your version of the list. Honestly, if I were forced to rank everyone, mine would nearly be opposite of yours, or at least a few notable swaps from top/bottom/top/bottom. I know you tried to base it on voting but you aren't taking into account other actions of the individuals/other conversations/whatever, and those are important along with the voting record.

My problem with these lists in general are that other people's clears are not my clears and shouldn't be everyone else's. I view Mewtini as town right now but I don't necessarily trust her reads on people because she hasn't given reasons (and I fully understand not wanting to do that! But based on the fact that I don't have all of the information she has, I don't feel okay about drawing the SAME conclusion about everyone she has cleared, just based on the fact that I town read her). Same goes for anyone else clearing other people really, because, even if I trust my judgement that they are town, I'm not sure I can trust their judgement of others. Like for example my only cleared list are myself and vm, but that info alone tips me off to the fact that many of these lists are flawed.


----------



## Vipera Magnifica

Butterfree is 99.7% town for me because the only situation in which she could be mafia is if she was pulling the long con when bussing w!herbe, and that would be an extremely risky play for her considering herbe is the only one mechanically clearing her right now (unless the other fishing brother comes forward)

actually would it be a bad idea for butterfree to say who the other fishing bro is right now? it's not exactly a super powerful role and it would give us another cleared townie (and would make her even townier because if she was mafia she'd have to give up the name of another mafia to corroborate her claim). I understand if she thinks it would be a bad idea to claim.

I'm liking Butterfree's analysis in this game a lot so I'd like to know... @Butterfree where do your suspicions currently lie?


----------



## Vipera Magnifica

Vipera Magnifica said:


> Butterfree is 99.7% town for me because the only situation in which she could be mafia is if she was pulling the long con when bussing w!herbe, and that would be an extremely risky play for her considering herbe is the only one mechanically clearing her right now (unless the other fishing brother comes forward)


I guess it's not the _only_ situation in which she could be mafia

Maybe Dark Fishing Brothers are real... I want to believe...


----------



## Novae

Tofu said:


> I know you tried to base it on voting but you aren't taking into account other actions of the individuals/other conversations/whatever, and those are important along with the voting record


pfft bold of you to assume I’ve read anything else


----------



## RedneckPhoenix

*emmy*

i'm not smart and emmy's been quiet so i'm just sticking to the one hunch i have


----------



## kyeugh

Tofu said:


> I had initially been kind of clear on Skylar but now I'm wondering why again she's pushing for people to read vm as the vig. Why would town want to expose the vig role? I feel like we already have enough of an obligation now that our (theoretical) cop has been outed and feel like we need to protect emmy. So... Why would we want mafia to know about two more "important" roles? I don't like.


 two more? also i don’t really feel i’ve  “exposed” anything that wasn’t already exposed. if vm is vig and really didn’t want to be read that way, i doubt he’d put me in a situation where odds were pretty good i was going to lay a case for why i thought he was the vig. to me it’s more valuable to discuss that information openly to explain my reasoning for a townread than it is to stay hush hush about a hunch i’ve already explained based on information the mafia definitely already observed and have their own ideas about.



RedneckPhoenix said:


> *emmy*
> 
> i'm not smart and emmy's been quiet so i'm just sticking to the one hunch i have


this is starting to bug me tbh


----------



## kyeugh

can someone explain to me why we’re townreading rnp? roleblocker is a pretty much a scum role afaik. it seems weird to me that the idea that role might be scum aligned is just like, a possibility people are lightly entertaining


----------



## kyeugh

well, to be clear i don’t think it’s impossible it’s a town role, i know it can be and i’ve seen it that way before… but i feel like it’s pretty commonly scum, too, and i feel like we’re kind of letting him off the hook because he’s giving information and we’re kinda going “ah classic” even though there’s not necessarily a reason it would be towny


----------



## Novae

roleblocker is usually like 50/50

did rnp claim his action last night


----------



## kyeugh

Mist1422 said:


> roleblocker is usually like 50/50
> 
> did rnp claim his action last night


 he blocked emmy (who claimed cop), which tracks because she said she couldn't get a result for her target (me) last night


----------



## Tofu

kyeugh said:


> Tofu said:
> 
> 
> 
> I had initially been kind of clear on Skylar but now I'm wondering why again she's pushing for people to read vm as the vig. Why would town want to expose the vig role? I feel like we already have enough of an obligation now that our (theoretical) cop has been outed and feel like we need to protect emmy. So... Why would we want mafia to know about two more "important" roles? I don't like.
> 
> 
> 
> two more? also i don’t really feel i’ve  “exposed” anything that wasn’t already exposed. if vm is vig and really didn’t want to be read that way, i doubt he’d put me in a situation where odds were pretty good i was going to lay a case for why i thought he was the vig. to me it’s more valuable to discuss that information openly to explain my reasoning for a townread than it is to stay hush hush about a hunch i’ve already explained based on information the mafia definitely already observed and have their own ideas about.
> 
> 
> 
> RedneckPhoenix said:
> 
> 
> 
> *emmy*
> 
> i'm not smart and emmy's been quiet so i'm just sticking to the one hunch i have
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> this is starting to bug me tbh
Click to expand...

Oh shoot, wrong emphasis. I should have read more like, two "more important" as in, two roles that will appear more valuable than other roles. Not "two more" important. So, knowing both the vig and cop would spread our protection resources thinner (and we don't even know what those are yet).

On rnp's post... Yeah I dunno. Emmy isn't particularly consistently active, so I don't think that's a great reason to vote for her. (unless this is "for science" to get her to talk but I think we already know all we need to know about her role)


----------



## Vipera Magnifica

kyeugh said:


> can someone explain to me why we’re townreading rnp? roleblocker is a pretty much a scum role afaik. it seems weird to me that the idea that role might be scum aligned is just like, a possibility people are lightly entertaining


he said he was the jailer


----------



## kyeugh

Vipera Magnifica said:


> kyeugh said:
> 
> 
> 
> can someone explain to me why we’re townreading rnp? roleblocker is a pretty much a scum role afaik. it seems weird to me that the idea that role might be scum aligned is just like, a possibility people are lightly entertaining
> 
> 
> 
> he said he was the jailer
Click to expand...

 did he?  he said he _jailed_ emmy, but he never said he was a _jailer_ as far as i can tell, and he described his power as roleblocking and didn't specify anything else.


----------



## kyeugh

RedneckPhoenix said:


> blocks and protects


oh!


----------



## Tofu

Also, vm wasn't lying about one of the two of us being vig.


----------



## Tangrowth

My schedule is something right now, my apologies all. Definitely will be around throughout the day as I balance work.


----------



## Trebek

Butterfree said:


> Trebek said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> mewtini said:
> 
> 
> 
> that's probably NAI isn't it? w!herbe would know that emmy would come back with something making it clear she got [mafia] roleblocked (unless you're saying he just blames it on a hypothetical town roleblocker or something like that)
> 
> 
> 
> aw heck, you’re probably right, but part of me still wants to believe w!herbe would still have an easier time justifying 2 roleblockers than coming up with a fake role for a dead person
> 
> basically i’m TRing herbe for more reasons than just [redacted]
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> He didn’t actually come up with a fake role for a dead person, though? He went “oh I totally inspected ILS but I’m not going to tell you what his role was because it’d help the mafia”? Did I miss something?
Click to expand...

i meant this more in the sense of like, if a herbe train happened again we would likely press him into revealing ILS’s role in order to clear himself, and he’d have to have thought about that ahead of time


kyeugh said:


> Vipera Magnifica said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> kyeugh said:
> 
> 
> 
> can someone explain to me why we’re townreading rnp? roleblocker is a pretty much a scum role afaik. it seems weird to me that the idea that role might be scum aligned is just like, a possibility people are lightly entertaining
> 
> 
> 
> he said he was the jailer
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> did he?  he said he _jailed_ emmy, but he never said he was a _jailer_ as far as i can tell, and he described his power as roleblocking and didn't specify anything else.
Click to expand...

also, for the record, w!roleblocker can suuuper easily claim jailer the moment any mafia attack fizzles, so idk how i feel about rnp


----------



## kyeugh

currently looking at the player list and if i put aside vm/keldeo/herbe + my towncore right now, my list of *shrug* is kind of getting narrowed down... i have some kind of opinion on pretty much everyone there but koko.  can anyone offer thoughts on em?  i feel like stuff has been said but it's been sort of few and far between, and i don't think i have a strong feeling on em.  feels like a bit of a blind spot for me.


----------



## Butterfree

To be honest I don’t see why jailer would be an exclusively-town role. For mafia it’s basically a nerfed roleblocker (can block townies, but the mafia can’t simultaneously attempt to kill them.

I think I’d rather keep my fishing brother under wraps just for the moment, because once the mafia knows _both_ of us they’re likely to be able to stop the revenge shot and render our power moot - kill one of us and then block the other the next night, say - while revealing just _one_ is pretty safe. But depending on where the discussion goes today we might have to anyway. We’ll see.

More thoughts coming later after work.


----------



## mewtini

won’t be able to properly post for a bit but i take back my rnp clear tbh, i realized something new lol. i was partly operating off of bias because when i looked “jailer” up it showed up as pro-town and that i vaguely liked rnp hard-claiming not cop but yeah


----------



## Vipera Magnifica

Tofu said:


> Also, vm wasn't lying about one of the two of us being vig.


confirming this

i only made that gambit _because_ i knew one of us was the vigilante... i lied about lying about it because i figured the vig might get roleblocked but i guess the cat's out of the bag now (there's a good chance they might just waste a block on the wrong person anyway)

the thing about one of us being a watcher was a lie, i figured kyeugh might feasibly know who the vig is if she was a watcher, but only town!kyeugh would say "this isn't right, i'm the watcher actually" and mafia!kyeugh would come up with a different excuse. skylar's response to that test isn't one that makes me think it's impossible for her to be scum, but i am certainly more inclined to trust her for the time being


----------



## kyeugh

just done a quick iso on koko... i think i feel okay about em?  a few things in particular:


kokorico said:


> mewtini said:
> 
> 
> 
> herbe (8): keldeo, mewtini, trebek, VM, bfree, blu, koko, kyeugh
> ultracool (3): tofu, rari, herbe
> tofu (1): emmy
> blu (1): ils
> emmy (1): rnp
> 
> what is happening tbh
> 
> 
> 
> holy shit
> uh
> 
> wasn't the reason we were doubtful of the ultracool wagon that nobody really seemed to be opposing it? and now the same thing is happening with herbe
> 
> i swear to god, if this is another v/v
Click to expand...

 this pings pretty towny to me.


kokorico said:


> Trebek said:
> 
> 
> 
> what i’m asking myself about herbe rn is: if we think that we can get more information about his alignment in the future (be it through a cop check or just herbe posting more), which is more detrimental to town? killing off a v!rolecop, or letting a w!rolecop get another check off?
> 
> 
> 
> ooh this is a good point
> 
> probably the former tbqh
> 
> ......swapping so close to eod probably doesn't look great for me, huh, but fine, *Ultracool*
> 
> (I still think Ultracool is less likely to be mafia but the town utility argument is a strong one)
Click to expand...

 i think this feels towny too?  drawing attention to the optics of a vote change might be something a wolf would do, but meh, i think given that ultracool flipped red, e doesn't point out how it looks weird when switching to a scummate.  wifom i guess but i feel okay about this, feels like a towny thought process to me.


kokorico said:


> oh
> 
> oh wait
> 
> it occurs to me that I may have been coming at this from completely the wrong angle
> 
> quick question, anyone can answer: on tcod, is it normal for people with non-compulsive non-investigative PRs to make use of them almost every night?


 also i feel pretty good about this, haha.  rip.

another thing is that e spent kind of a lot of time sticking up for ils in a point in the thread where iirc no one really had strong feelings about him one way or the other (maybe some light scumreading i guess but i think most everyone was null on him?).  since he flipped town i think that's a good look for em, that sort of play would be sort of strange (albeit not impossible) for a wolf.  i thiiiink i feel ok about koko all things considered here?

can someone remind me what the wagons are right now.


----------



## kyeugh

Tofu said:


> Also, vm wasn't lying about one of the two of us being vig.


 i'm a little bit weirded out by this since you just shaded me for speculating about the vig role tbh.



Vipera Magnifica said:


> i only made that gambit _because_ i knew one of us was the vigilante... i lied about lying about it because i figured the vig might get roleblocked but i guess the cat's out of the bag now (there's a good chance they might just waste a block on the wrong person anyway)


 this makes enough sense and is pretty much what i was thinking tbh.  i think the test was a pretty good look for you in the end regardless.


----------



## mewtini

kyeugh said:


> can someone remind me what the wagons are right now.


i think it’s still me/herbe on keldeo and mist/rari on VM


----------



## Vipera Magnifica

I think I'm going to drop a vote on *RedneckPhoenix* for now because if it turns out there was a mafia roleblocker practically openwolfing and we did nothing to stop that I'm going to be extremely angry


----------



## kyeugh

yeah i'm vibing with that tbh
*redneckphoenix*


----------



## Vipera Magnifica

and to elaborate on that thought, I think the pros of potentially removing a mafia roleblocker would outweigh the cons of potentially losing a jailer


----------



## Tofu

Last Saturday:


RedneckPhoenix said:


> IndigoEmmy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Bluwiikoon said:
> 
> 
> 
> Emmy is just town and doesn't want to get lynched
> 
> 
> 
> This one is accurate.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> bing bing wahoo
> *emmy*
Click to expand...


and today:


RedneckPhoenix said:


> *emmy*
> 
> i'm not smart and emmy's been quiet so i'm just sticking to the one hunch i have



What is your problem with emmy
Why vote for her before and then jail/block/whatever you did
If you're town, it sure is... an annoying town

Parking on *Redneckphoenix* for now because what


----------



## Tofu

Sorry, I had typed up that thing without seeing those new posts on rnp. Nice.


----------



## mewtini

mmm
i'll join the train, sorry herbe
*RNP*


----------



## mewtini

Tofu said:


> If you're town, it sure is... an annoying town


i am paranoid because this was literally my logic last game and i proceeded to lynch rnp over a confirmed mafia but he does feel different this game/i think there's probably more reason to push here, at least for now


----------



## kyeugh

mewtini said:


> and i proceeded to lynch rnp over a confirmed mafia


----------



## mewtini

kyeugh said:


> mewtini said:
> 
> 
> 
> and i proceeded to lynch rnp over a confirmed mafia
Click to expand...

*kyeugh*


----------



## Trebek

yeah i’m vibing with this. i wasn’t vibing as much earlier bc i’m used to jailer being a far more powerful role than it seems to be here (and honestly, i would rather take the risk of getting someone else to heal emmy than the risk of w!”jailer” repeatedly rbing emmy)

bing wahoo *rnp*


----------



## mewtini

but yeah *rnp*, i'll have to think harder about this later but


----------



## Trebek

also “emmys been quiet” seems like
intentionally misinformed considering that she hasn’t been withholding any information afaik? like i guess there’s a difference between quiet and “quiet” but it still pings me


----------



## kyeugh

Trebek said:


> i’m used to jailer being a far more powerful role than it seems to be here


 how so


----------



## Trebek

kyeugh said:


> Trebek said:
> 
> 
> 
> i’m used to jailer being a far more powerful role than it seems to be here
> 
> 
> 
> how so
Click to expand...

in town of salem, jailer gets private anonymous communication with the jailee and also reserves the power to execute the jailee, essentially putting the jailee in a mandatory claim or die scenario


----------



## Trebek

alongside the blocking and protecting


----------



## Bluwiikoon

Jailer would make a pretty convincing cover for a mafia roleblocker, huh? I see where all you guys are coming from

And if I revisit my Spicy Roster List, marking RNP as red allows someone else whom is Unconfirmed to be green (like a greenlist of Me, VM and Tofu, and possibly Trebek or koko). I think I like that a bit more, especially since either VM or Tofu are confirmed vig now? It also doesn't do us any favours for the cop to get roleblocked out of some weird memey grudge.

*RedneckPhoenix*


----------



## kyeugh

wow red and green are the christmas colors huh... santa is godfather


----------



## Trebek

*santa*


----------



## Vipera Magnifica

I'd be worried at how fast this wagon is picking up if it wasn't for the fact I townlean almost everyone on it

I guess I'm wondering now who exactly _did _the mafia try to kill if RNP is a mafia roleblocker?


----------



## Trebek

Trebek said:


> kyeugh said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Trebek said:
> 
> 
> 
> i’m used to jailer being a far more powerful role than it seems to be here
> 
> 
> 
> how so
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> in town of salem, jailer gets private anonymous communication with the jailee and also reserves the power to execute the jailee, essentially putting the jailee in a mandatory claim or die scenario
Click to expand...

also in this case it’s much harder to fake claim jailer since the jailees can vouch for having been jailed

which is why initially i was like ooh spicy jailer nice love it


----------



## rari_teh

ok. i just caught up and have a longpost in the works, but i gotta do this first
i see where y’all are coming from wrt rnp, but i don’t love how fast this wagon is growing and frankly i think that keldeo is more likely to be maf than vm
so *keldeo* for now


----------



## Trebek

what if maf is mewt/skylar/rari/herbe/emmy and they’re all  just furiously dabbing on us rn

plz don’t take this seriously


----------



## kyeugh

Vipera Magnifica said:


> I'd be worried at how fast this wagon is picking up if it wasn't for the fact I townlean almost everyone on it


 same and also ultracool.jpg has me kind of shrug about disavowing wagons for this reason rn


----------



## Bluwiikoon

Trebek said:


> Trebek said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> kyeugh said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Trebek said:
> 
> 
> 
> i’m used to jailer being a far more powerful role than it seems to be here
> 
> 
> 
> how so
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> in town of salem, jailer gets private anonymous communication with the jailee and also reserves the power to execute the jailee, essentially putting the jailee in a mandatory claim or die scenario
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> also in this case it’s much harder to fake claim jailer since the jailees can vouch for having been jailed
> 
> which is why initially i was like ooh spicy jailer nice love it
Click to expand...

Additionally since we know Emmy is a little inexperienced, she wouldn't know if anything special happens when you get Jailed as opposed to Roleblocked imo


----------



## kyeugh

Bluwiikoon said:


> Trebek said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Trebek said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> kyeugh said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Trebek said:
> 
> 
> 
> i’m used to jailer being a far more powerful role than it seems to be here
> 
> 
> 
> how so
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> in town of salem, jailer gets private anonymous communication with the jailee and also reserves the power to execute the jailee, essentially putting the jailee in a mandatory claim or die scenario
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> also in this case it’s much harder to fake claim jailer since the jailees can vouch for having been jailed
> 
> which is why initially i was like ooh spicy jailer nice love it
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Additionally since we know Emmy is a little inexperienced, she wouldn't know if anything special happens when you get Jailed as opposed to Roleblocked imo
Click to expand...

 i’m not sure i get what you mean by this


----------



## Trebek

Bluwiikoon said:


> Trebek said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Trebek said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> kyeugh said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Trebek said:
> 
> 
> 
> i’m used to jailer being a far more powerful role than it seems to be here
> 
> 
> 
> how so
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> in town of salem, jailer gets private anonymous communication with the jailee and also reserves the power to execute the jailee, essentially putting the jailee in a mandatory claim or die scenario
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> also in this case it’s much harder to fake claim jailer since the jailees can vouch for having been jailed
> 
> which is why initially i was like ooh spicy jailer nice love it
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Additionally since we know Emmy is a little inexperienced, she wouldn't know if anything special happens when you get Jailed as opposed to Roleblocked imo
Click to expand...

i wouldn’t be all that surprised if she got the same message from both jailer and roleblocker, that seems to be the vibe i’ve gotten here as opposed to ToS


----------



## Trebek

but ofc that’s up to our lord and savior jack to decide


----------



## Bluwiikoon

kyeugh said:


> Bluwiikoon said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Trebek said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Trebek said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> kyeugh said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Trebek said:
> 
> 
> 
> i’m used to jailer being a far more powerful role than it seems to be here
> 
> 
> 
> how so
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> in town of salem, jailer gets private anonymous communication with the jailee and also reserves the power to execute the jailee, essentially putting the jailee in a mandatory claim or die scenario
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> also in this case it’s much harder to fake claim jailer since the jailees can vouch for having been jailed
> 
> which is why initially i was like ooh spicy jailer nice love it
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Additionally since we know Emmy is a little inexperienced, she wouldn't know if anything special happens when you get Jailed as opposed to Roleblocked imo
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> i’m not sure i get what you mean by this
Click to expand...

Presumably someone who got Jailed would specifically know they were in jail, according to what Trebek outlined  Whereas Emmy only said her cop check failed


----------



## Bluwiikoon

You guys probably know more about it than me tbh, I'm just speculating :o Jailer is still a relatively unknown role to me


----------



## Trebek

Bluwiikoon said:


> kyeugh said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Bluwiikoon said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Trebek said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Trebek said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> kyeugh said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Trebek said:
> 
> 
> 
> i’m used to jailer being a far more powerful role than it seems to be here
> 
> 
> 
> how so
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> in town of salem, jailer gets private anonymous communication with the jailee and also reserves the power to execute the jailee, essentially putting the jailee in a mandatory claim or die scenario
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> also in this case it’s much harder to fake claim jailer since the jailees can vouch for having been jailed
> 
> which is why initially i was like ooh spicy jailer nice love it
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Additionally since we know Emmy is a little inexperienced, she wouldn't know if anything special happens when you get Jailed as opposed to Roleblocked imo
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> i’m not sure i get what you mean by this
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Presumably someone who got Jailed would specifically know they were in jail, according to what Trebek outlined  Whereas Emmy only said her cop check failed
Click to expand...

sorry, i might have been accidentally misleading about this, i was referring to a different format of mafia that i played in the past, so don’t take anything i said as indicative of how the rules here work, i was just outlining my thought process


----------



## Trebek

of my initial rnp reaction


----------



## kyeugh

Bluwiikoon said:


> Presumably someone who got Jailed would specifically know they were in jail, according to what Trebek outlined


 the thing trebek described is from a different meta, it almost certainly doesn’t work that way here. as he says, whether emmy got roleblocked of jailed her only indication either way would be her lack of inspection result


----------



## rari_teh

Keldeo said:


> I'm feeling pretty similar, but I was getting paranoid about Ultracool being outgroup meaning interactions don't matter, but maybe I shouldn't be?


i was thinking, if ultracool was outgroup and outgroup is (likely) terrorist, wouldn’t he blow himself up at the last moment before being lynched? :|



Keldeo said:


> EOD1 they swapped between Stryke and myuma a bunch, which I read in the moment as an indecisive town trying to do the right thing with incomplete info, but could probably also be compatible with mafia who didn't actually care who got yeeted there.


uuuuuh wouldn’t that be the opposite? like, i may be being naïve, but wouldn’t a mafia who knows that the wagons are v/v just park at one of the wagons because who cares who’s going to be lynched?



Tofu said:


> Or 3p, which would be weird and I'm not sure how that role would really work.


if there’s a 3p i definitely don’t think it’s fishing bros/lovers/whatever role that comes in pairs, given the high mafia-to-town ratio



Bluwiikoon said:


> I didn't know we had multiple protective roles too, so hopefully Emmy is reasonably safe for now?


idk. if rnp is town, it’s kinda pointless for him to heal emmy every night given that it would also block her reads, and mewt isn’t a full healer iirc, whatever that means



kyeugh said:


> RedneckPhoenix said:
> 
> 
> 
> *emmy*
> 
> i'm not smart and emmy's been quiet so i'm just sticking to the one hunch i have
> 
> 
> 
> this is starting to bug me tbh
Click to expand...

i think this is most likely just him having fun at our reactions tbh. i mean, if i were mafia with rnp i’d be screaming in the scumchat



Tofu said:


> Also, vm wasn't lying about one of the two of us being vig.


uuuuh why would you say this out loud tbh


----------



## Bluwiikoon

For what it's worth I think everyone appreciates your input, Trebek! ^^


----------



## Trebek

also just to make sure i didn’t somehow invalidate my vote earlier

*rnp*


----------



## mewtini

i lowkey think there's just not a 3p tbh.


rari_teh said:


> uuuuuh wouldn’t that be the opposite? like, i may be being naïve, but wouldn’t a mafia who knows that the wagons are v/v just park at one of the wagons because who cares who’s going to be lynched?


not if they're feigning confusion


----------



## kyeugh

rari_teh said:


> i think this is most likely just him having fun at our reactions tbh. i mean, if i were mafia with rnp i’d be screaming in the scumchat


maybe! but i think it’s still pretty frustrating and i’m just not really into the whole “well by now we should expect this guy to play against his own interests” thing


----------



## mewtini

mewtini said:


> i lowkey think there's just not a 3p tbh.


don't quote me on this though. it just doesn't make sense in the 14-setup is my thought


----------



## mewtini

rari_teh said:


> i was thinking, if ultracool was outgroup and outgroup is (likely) terrorist, wouldn’t he blow himself up at the last moment before being lynched? :|


this is kind of a good take tho


----------



## kyeugh

i kinda feel like there isn’t an outgroup


----------



## Trebek

how does terrorist work again?


----------



## kyeugh

Trebek said:


> how does terrorist work again?


aiui aligned with mafia, doesn’t know the other mafia (might know just one), not in scum chat, can blow themselves up on someone


----------



## mewtini

kyeugh said:


> i kinda feel like there isn’t an outgroup


yeah with the 14-setup in mind, i'm in agreement



Trebek said:


> how does terrorist work again?


they pick someone to blow up/daykill in the thread (and die with them)


----------



## Bluwiikoon

Given we know of a few powerful town roles right now, I'm not sure why a terrorist wouldn't kaboom yet unless it's a self preservation thing.  It's surely more dangerous to let cops and semi-healers roam free


----------



## Trebek

kyeugh said:


> Trebek said:
> 
> 
> 
> how does terrorist work again?
> 
> 
> 
> aiui aligned with mafia, doesn’t know the other mafia (might know just one), not in scum chat, can blow themselves up on someone
Click to expand...

yeah, that doesn’t really vibe with what we saw from UC

i doubt outgroup tbh


----------



## Vipera Magnifica

mewtini said:


> i lowkey think there's just not a 3p tbh.


idk, i still think there could be an alien and i shudder to think they might have just been activated last night

i'm disinclined to believe it's RNP at least, because in what world was he the high priority target for the mafia last night?


----------



## Bluwiikoon

This is my Cats 2019 character, Explodeytippytoes. They die in the first twelve seconds of the movie for the sake of gratuitous CGI effects


----------



## Trebek

Bluwiikoon said:


> This is my Cats 2019 character, Explodeytippytoes. They die in the first twelve seconds of the movie for the sake of gratuitous CGI effects


i mean the movie budgets gotta go somewhere


----------



## Vipera Magnifica

maybe the terrorrist is Old Deuteronomy.. why else wear an oversized fur coat if not to hide bombs?


----------



## mewtini

Vipera Magnifica said:


> idk, i still think there could be an alien and i shudder to think they might have just been activated last night


yeah there's still an alien/bulletproof hit possibility, you're right


----------



## Trebek

Vipera Magnifica said:


> mewtini said:
> 
> 
> 
> i lowkey think there's just not a 3p tbh.
> 
> 
> 
> idk, i still think there could be an alien and i shudder to think they might have just been activated last night
> 
> i'm disinclined to believe it's RNP at least, because in what world was he the high priority target for the mafia last night?
Click to expand...

also disinclined to believe RNP, bc this doesn’t feel like an alien who got activated and decided to suddenly make themself less likeable

if he’s alien and acting like this from the getgo that’s a huge gamble that he gets stabbed before getting put in the basement


----------



## Trebek

believe rnp is alien*


----------



## kyeugh

hmmm, thinking for a minute, the facts are that emmy didn’t die last night, there was no mafia kill, AND she had her action blocked.  if we take mewtini at her word that she healed emmy, the worlds here are:

v!rnp jailed emmy, and the mafia targeted her.
w!rnp targeted emmy, and the mafia targeted someone else, who was either bulletproof, an alien, or protected by a second town healer.
i’m kind of thinking the first option is more probable here? i’m going to *unvote* for now.


----------



## kyeugh

ok some people said all this stuff while i was typing. FINE.


----------



## Trebek

yeah, i think i give slightly more credence to the second option bc of [redacted] but that is a good point, hmmm


----------



## mewtini

i guess i'm wondering why the mafia would have targeted her either way? it was clear she was going to get healed by at least one person


----------



## Trebek

i think at that point it comes down to “how many levels of wifom is the mafia on”


----------



## kyeugh

mewtini said:


> i guess i'm wondering why the mafia would have targeted her either way? it was clear she was going to get healed by at least one person


good question tbh, but unless another healer comes forward i think it’s probably the most logical assumption 

btw if rnp does flip red i think there’s almost definitely another healer, your half healerness only makes sense to me if rnp is town and occupies the other half there


----------



## rari_teh

or “how recklessly is the mafia playing”


----------



## rari_teh

ninja’d


----------



## Trebek

kyeugh said:


> mewtini said:
> 
> 
> 
> i guess i'm wondering why the mafia would have targeted her either way? it was clear she was going to get healed by at least one person
> 
> 
> 
> good question tbh, but unless another healer comes forward i think it’s probably the most logical assumption
> 
> btw if rnp does flip red i think there’s almost definitely another healer, your half healerness only makes sense to me if rnp is town and occupies the other half there
Click to expand...

gonna pose a question in response to this, idk the answer to it:
if rnp flipping red likely implies a healer, would you consider a healer revealing as a reason to scum lean rnp


----------



## mewtini

ehhhh. i think the mechanically safer play for them is to just target a third person and get a more-guaranteed kill?


----------



## mewtini

but also i literally don't know where i stand on this lol so


----------



## Vipera Magnifica

mewtini said:


> i guess i'm wondering why the mafia would have targeted her either way? it was clear she was going to get healed by at least one person


good... point

it makes perfect sense that they'd want to roleblock her though since there's not really a role that can stop that from happening


----------



## kyeugh

Trebek said:


> i think at that point it comes down to “how many levels of wifom is the mafia on”


disagree tbh, i don’t think it’s really wifom to make an unidentifiable play that actually makes it harder for them to win. it’s just a bad move. i doubt they targeted emmy because they thought


Trebek said:


> kyeugh said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> mewtini said:
> 
> 
> 
> i guess i'm wondering why the mafia would have targeted her either way? it was clear she was going to get healed by at least one person
> 
> 
> 
> good question tbh, but unless another healer comes forward i think it’s probably the most logical assumption
> 
> btw if rnp does flip red i think there’s almost definitely another healer, your half healerness only makes sense to me if rnp is town and occupies the other half there
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> gonna pose a question in response to this, idk the answer to it:
> if rnp flipping red likely implies a healer, would you consider a healer revealing as a reason to scum lean rnp
Click to expand...

ayup


----------



## mewtini

oh yeah, i think roleblocking her makes 100% sense regardless. i don't think kill-targeting her does though


----------



## kyeugh

kyeugh said:


> disagree tbh, i don’t think it’s really wifom to make an unidentifiable play that actually makes it harder for them to win. it’s just a bad move. i doubt they targeted emmy because they thought


lol i meant to delete this


----------



## mewtini

i agreed with it tbh.


----------



## kyeugh

mewtini said:


> oh yeah, i think roleblocking her makes 100% sense regardless. i don't think kill-targeting her does though


if rnp is scum mafia probably _didn’t_ target emmy tbh


----------



## rari_teh

Trebek said:


> if rnp flipping red likely implies a healer, would you consider a healer revealing as a reason to scum lean rnp


definitely, yes


----------



## kyeugh

Trebek said:


> if rnp flipping red likely implies a healer, would you consider a healer revealing as a reason to scum lean rnp


 galaxy brain play: w!trebek asks this, i say yes, he claims healer, we lynch v!rnp


----------



## Trebek

rari_teh said:


> Trebek said:
> 
> 
> 
> if rnp flipping red likely implies a healer, would you consider a healer revealing as a reason to scum lean rnp
> 
> 
> 
> definitely, yes
Click to expand...

well, i can’t actually do anything like claim with this info lmao

but everyone else do whatever you want with this


----------



## Trebek

kyeugh said:


> Trebek said:
> 
> 
> 
> if rnp flipping red likely implies a healer, would you consider a healer revealing as a reason to scum lean rnp
> 
> 
> 
> galaxy brain play: w!trebek asks this, i say yes, he claims healer, we lynch v!rnp
Click to expand...

god i wish i was in a position to do that


----------



## rari_teh

rari_teh said:


> definitely, yes


i mean, i wouldn’t roleclaim if i were the healer because that’s painting a target in the back of your own jacket, but yes


----------



## Trebek

rari_teh said:


> rari_teh said:
> 
> 
> 
> definitely, yes
> 
> 
> 
> i mean, i wouldn’t roleclaim if i were the healer because that’s painting a target in the back of your own jacket, but yes
Click to expand...

yeah, wasn’t fishing for a healer claim right now, but i wanted to check where people at off on it in case something along these lines ends up happening later


----------



## rari_teh

Trebek said:


> rari_teh said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rari_teh said:
> 
> 
> 
> definitely, yes
> 
> 
> 
> i mean, i wouldn’t roleclaim if i were the healer because that’s painting a target in the back of your own jacket, but yes
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> yeah, wasn’t fishing for a healer claim right now, but i wanted to check where people at off on it in case something along these lines ends up happening later
Click to expand...

fwiw it didn’t come off for me as fishing for a roleclaim either
i just wanted to make my stance clear lol


----------



## rari_teh

holy shit we’re over 3000 posts :o


----------



## Trebek

rari_teh said:


> holy shit we’re over 3000 posts :o


holy carp


----------



## Bluwiikoon

I kinda read last Night as uhhhh mewtini saying she'll protect Emmy and asking any living healer to heal her, and then the heal being Successful and the maf targeting mewtini Just In Case because y'know, we coulda lost a healer already without knowing and because mewtini seems to have a strong role.  But that's just my theory!


----------



## rari_teh

Bluwiikoon said:


> I kinda read last Night as uhhhh mewtini saying she'll protect Emmy and asking any living healer to heal her, and then the heal being Successful and the maf targeting mewtini Just In Case because y'know, we coulda lost a healer already without knowing and because mewtini seems to have a strong role.  But that's just my theory!


so you’re saying that mewtini is not really a healer? i don’t follow


----------



## kyeugh

rari_teh said:


> Bluwiikoon said:
> 
> 
> 
> I kinda read last Night as uhhhh mewtini saying she'll protect Emmy and asking any living healer to heal her, and then the heal being Successful and the maf targeting mewtini Just In Case because y'know, we coulda lost a healer already without knowing and because mewtini seems to have a strong role.  But that's just my theory!
> 
> 
> 
> so you’re saying that mewtini is not really a healer? i don’t follow
Click to expand...

i think the reasoning is like... mewtini said she would target emmy and asked the other healer (if present) to go onto her. the mafia took a gamble that there was no other healer and targeted mewtini, but she was indeed projected and that’s why there was no kill?


----------



## Novae

hmm 5 scum alive

RNP isn't technically clear but if he told the truth about his ability and mewtini is a healer who targeted emmy he's clear because why would he protect the kill target

yes? maybe?


----------



## Novae

butterfree/herbe/mewtini/emmy/RNP/tofu mech clear (assuming I read correctly and tofu claimed vig, not VM)


----------



## kyeugh

Mist1422 said:


> hmm 5 scum alive
> 
> RNP isn't technically clear but if he told the truth about his ability and mewtini is a healer who targeted emmy he's clear because why would he protect the kill target
> 
> yes? maybe?


 because emmy wouldn’t be the kill target in that case


----------



## mewtini

Bluwiikoon said:


> I kinda read last Night as uhhhh mewtini saying she'll protect Emmy and asking any living healer to heal her, and then the heal being Successful and the maf targeting mewtini Just In Case


yeah. i kinda panicked because i wasn't even sure if there was another healer lol and i figured at least emmy was safe regardless of whether or not i survived

though if rnp is mafia (roleblocker, presumably) and they all saw my partialclaim, would they assume that i was the only doctor or part of a healing pair? if they assume it's just me, then they might've just targeted me and gotten screwed imagine ILS randed unfortunate doctor again

but that still seems like, a Gamble


----------



## mewtini

Mist1422 said:


> (assuming I read correctly and tofu claimed vig, not VM)


one of tofu/VM is vig apparently


----------



## Novae

kyeugh said:


> Mist1422 said:
> 
> 
> 
> hmm 5 scum alive
> 
> RNP isn't technically clear but if he told the truth about his ability and mewtini is a healer who targeted emmy he's clear because why would he protect the kill target
> 
> yes? maybe?
> 
> 
> 
> because emmy wouldn’t be the kill target in that case
Click to expand...

then what happened to the kill


----------



## kyeugh

Mist1422 said:


> kyeugh said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mist1422 said:
> 
> 
> 
> hmm 5 scum alive
> 
> RNP isn't technically clear but if he told the truth about his ability and mewtini is a healer who targeted emmy he's clear because why would he protect the kill target
> 
> yes? maybe?
> 
> 
> 
> because emmy wouldn’t be the kill target in that case
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> then what happened to the kill
Click to expand...

it was blocked by another healer. if rnp is scum there are probably two healers imo


----------



## mewtini

that's the q


----------



## Novae

Keldeo
kyeugh
kokorico
Trebek
rari_teh
M Plus 7
Tofu
Bluwiikoon
Vipera Magnifica

5 scum in this, assuming all the above clears are legit, and we know there's a vig between tofu/VM


----------



## Novae

and mewtini claimed mech clear on kyeugh right


----------



## Bluwiikoon

You're not gonna put yourself on that list? :o


----------



## mewtini

Mist1422 said:


> and mewtini claimed mech clear on kyeugh right


i claimed mech on rari and almost-mech on kyeugh


----------



## kyeugh

Mist1422 said:


> and mewtini claimed mech clear on kyeugh right


yes, and rari


----------



## mewtini

mewtini said:


> almost-mech


read "not impossible, but i won't be going there for a while"


----------



## mewtini

i still put it at like 100%/98% lol.


----------



## Novae

Bluwiikoon said:


> You're not gonna put yourself on that list? :o


no, because I'm town, lol


----------



## Novae

Keldeo
kokorico
Trebek
M Plus 7
Tofu
Bluwiikoon
Vipera Magnifica

this is like, an okay PoE? but it doesn't really make sense unless ultracool was outgroup in which case herbe isn't really clear


----------



## kyeugh

Mist1422 said:


> Keldeo
> kokorico
> Trebek
> M Plus 7
> Tofu
> Bluwiikoon
> Vipera Magnifica
> 
> this is like, an okay PoE? but it doesn't really make sense unless ultracool was outgroup in which case herbe isn't really clear


 this is pretty much where i'm at too except rnp is in there


----------



## kyeugh

kyeugh said:


> Mist1422 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Keldeo
> kokorico
> Trebek
> M Plus 7
> Tofu
> Bluwiikoon
> Vipera Magnifica
> 
> this is like, an okay PoE? but it doesn't really make sense unless ultracool was outgroup in which case herbe isn't really clear
> 
> 
> 
> this is pretty much where i'm at too except rnp is in there
Click to expand...

oh and also you are too. :p


----------



## mewtini

oh hey, that's almost my PoE!


----------



## mewtini

except mist/rnp are in there and trebek maybe isn't


----------



## rari_teh

kyeugh said:


> rari_teh said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Bluwiikoon said:
> 
> 
> 
> I kinda read last Night as uhhhh mewtini saying she'll protect Emmy and asking any living healer to heal her, and then the heal being Successful and the maf targeting mewtini Just In Case because y'know, we coulda lost a healer already without knowing and because mewtini seems to have a strong role.  But that's just my theory!
> 
> 
> 
> so you’re saying that mewtini is not really a healer? i don’t follow
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> i think the reasoning is like... mewtini said she would target emmy and asked the other healer (if present) to go onto her. the mafia took a gamble that there was no other healer and targeted mewtini, but she was indeed projected and that’s why there was no kill?
Click to expand...

ooooh so the point is that there would be another healer whose identity is unknown to us who healed mewtini, under the assumption that RNP is mafia? makes sense


----------



## kyeugh

mewtini said:


> and trebek maybe isn't


why not


----------



## kyeugh

rari_teh said:


> kyeugh said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rari_teh said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Bluwiikoon said:
> 
> 
> 
> I kinda read last Night as uhhhh mewtini saying she'll protect Emmy and asking any living healer to heal her, and then the heal being Successful and the maf targeting mewtini Just In Case because y'know, we coulda lost a healer already without knowing and because mewtini seems to have a strong role.  But that's just my theory!
> 
> 
> 
> so you’re saying that mewtini is not really a healer? i don’t follow
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> i think the reasoning is like... mewtini said she would target emmy and asked the other healer (if present) to go onto her. the mafia took a gamble that there was no other healer and targeted mewtini, but she was indeed projected and that’s why there was no kill?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> ooooh so the point is that there would be another healer whose identity is unknown to us who healed mewtini, under the assumption that RNP is mafia? makes sense
Click to expand...

indeed yeah, it's a pretty good theory tbh and _if _rnp flips red i might go so far as to say that it's probably what happened? but i don't think it's really changing how i view the situation, like it isn't particularly incriminating


----------



## Novae

I am not willing to put RNP in the PoE until we get an alternate explanation on where the kill went

unless the team is like

RNP/Tofu/VM/+2 and there was a 1-shot vig


----------



## Trebek

tbh it could also be a smorgasbord of the two scenarios (v!rnp targets emmy, maf target mewt who gets healed) but that would imply jailer+healer+whatever mewt is which makes me shudder to consider maf power roles

ok maybe i talked myself out of this as i was writing it but imma hit post anyways


----------



## mewtini

kyeugh said:


> why not


i could be convinced maybe but i still feel p good about his EoD. w!trebek has no reason to figure out (+post) what i was breadcrumbing unless he actively wanted to bus ultracool or ultracool was indeed outgroup, because he was the deciding vote/i'd think mafia would be more cognizant of that. saying something like that aloud means he was fine with potentially getting other people to follow his vote


----------



## kyeugh

Mist1422 said:


> I am not willing to put RNP in the PoE until we get an alternate explanation on where the kill went
> 
> unless the team is like
> 
> RNP/Tofu/VM/+2 and there was a 1-shot vig


 what's wrong with the current explanation
it's not conclusive but it's certainly sufficient to put him in the poe for me at least.  there are worlds that make sense where he's mafia


----------



## Novae

town cascades (barring shenanigans):
herbe > mewtini > rari/kyeugh/emmy
herbe > butterfree


----------



## rari_teh

Mist1422 said:


> Keldeo
> kokorico
> Trebek
> M Plus 7
> Tofu
> Bluwiikoon
> Vipera Magnifica
> 
> this is like, an okay PoE? but it doesn't really make sense unless ultracool was outgroup in which case herbe isn't really clear


my list is similar to this, only it’s you instead of Trebek (and my kokoro says blu is town)


----------



## Novae

kyeugh said:


> Mist1422 said:
> 
> 
> 
> I am not willing to put RNP in the PoE until we get an alternate explanation on where the kill went
> 
> unless the team is like
> 
> RNP/Tofu/VM/+2 and there was a 1-shot vig
> 
> 
> 
> what's wrong with the current explanation
> it's not conclusive but it's certainly sufficient to put him in the poe for me at least.  there are worlds that make sense where he's mafia
Click to expand...

what current explanation

also I think his conviction on emmy has been pretty towny


----------



## mewtini

Mist1422 said:


> also I think his conviction on emmy has been pretty towny


how so


----------



## kyeugh

Mist1422 said:


> town cascades (barring shenanigans):
> herbe > mewtini > rari/kyeugh/emmy
> herbe > butterfree


aren't mewtini > rari/me/emmy town anyway by virtue of emmy's green check on mewt


----------



## Novae

mewtini said:


> Mist1422 said:
> 
> 
> 
> also I think his conviction on emmy has been pretty towny
> 
> 
> 
> how so
Click to expand...

iirc he was like this as town in tvtropes and the second MU invitational


----------



## mewtini

tbh i think he's playing differently than tvtropes


----------



## Novae

kyeugh said:


> Mist1422 said:
> 
> 
> 
> town cascades (barring shenanigans):
> herbe > mewtini > rari/kyeugh/emmy
> herbe > butterfree
> 
> 
> 
> aren't mewtini > rari/me/emmy town anyway by virtue of emmy's green check on mewt
Click to expand...

oh

technically no but that'd be a separate cascade


----------



## kyeugh

Mist1422 said:


> kyeugh said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mist1422 said:
> 
> 
> 
> I am not willing to put RNP in the PoE until we get an alternate explanation on where the kill went
> 
> unless the team is like
> 
> RNP/Tofu/VM/+2 and there was a 1-shot vig
> 
> 
> 
> what's wrong with the current explanation
> it's not conclusive but it's certainly sufficient to put him in the poe for me at least.  there are worlds that make sense where he's mafia
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> what current explanation
> 
> also I think his conviction on emmy has been pretty towny
Click to expand...

bro we've been talking about it for the last three pages and i've quoted you explaining it already too >:(

if rnp is scum then he blocked emmy and the mafia kill landed on someone who was either bulletproof, an alien, or was protected by a second town healer (that probably exists in the world where rnp is scum, because mewtini is only a half healer)


----------



## mewtini

oh, question. if rnp is villa, then does it make sense for mafia to assume there was a second healer? it wasn't known that i was only a partial healer


----------



## kyeugh

mewtini said:


> oh, question. if rnp is villa, then does it make sense for mafia to assume there was a second healer? it wasn't known that i was only a partial healer


 hm, i don't think so tbh.  unless *tinfoils* herbe is also mafia 

with this in mind i think it might actually be harder to explain the lack of a kill right now if rnp _isn't_ mafia?


----------



## Novae

kyeugh said:


> Mist1422 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> kyeugh said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mist1422 said:
> 
> 
> 
> I am not willing to put RNP in the PoE until we get an alternate explanation on where the kill went
> 
> unless the team is like
> 
> RNP/Tofu/VM/+2 and there was a 1-shot vig
> 
> 
> 
> what's wrong with the current explanation
> it's not conclusive but it's certainly sufficient to put him in the poe for me at least.  there are worlds that make sense where he's mafia
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> what current explanation
> 
> also I think his conviction on emmy has been pretty towny
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> bro we've been talking about it for the last three pages and i've quoted you explaining it already too >:(
> 
> if rnp is scum then he blocked emmy and the mafia kill landed on someone who was either bulletproof, an alien, or was protected by a second town healer (that probably exists in the world where rnp is scum, because mewtini is only a half healer)
Click to expand...

I said I think RNP is clear unless the kill was stopped by other means why’d you dispute that it’s confusing me


----------



## kyeugh

Mist1422 said:


> I said I think RNP is clear unless the kill was stopped by other means why’d you dispute that it’s confusing me


 because "unless the kill was stopped by other means" is a _huge_ if and i don't see why you're not including him in the POE with that massive caveat


----------



## mewtini

kyeugh said:


> mewtini said:
> 
> 
> 
> oh, question. if rnp is villa, then does it make sense for mafia to assume there was a second healer? it wasn't known that i was only a partial healer
> 
> 
> 
> hm, i don't think so tbh.  unless *tinfoils* herbe is also mafia
> 
> with this in mind i think it might actually be harder to explain the lack of a kill right now if rnp _isn't_ mafia?
Click to expand...

yeah ... now i'm hmmming because i essentially just doctorclaimed at EoD.


----------



## mewtini

maybe that adds credence to the idea of mafia just targeting me then?


----------



## Tofu

Mewt, I don't want to like, out you, but I think people aren't getting that you were a one-shot healer (I thought you made this clear like at the start of toDay but maybe I imagined it). I'm assuming you have a kind of JOAT role or something... Meaning you could have other abilities during other night phases. Feel free to just deny/ignore this if you don't want anyone to know, but I just want people to consider that possibility.

I would also think that would mean there would likely be another doctor who is permanently a doctor (if they are still alive).


----------



## kyeugh

to resummarize (mostly for my own use):

if rnp _is _scum, he blocked emmy and the mafia targeted someone else—likely mewtini, who would be covered by an unknown town healer
if rnp _isn_'t scum, he and mewt both protected emmy, and the mafia probably targeted her for some reason?
in either of these cases, it's possible the mafia simply targeted someone bulletproof/alien.
i can't really wrap my head around the second bulletpoint though?  is there any explanation for this that i'm missing other than that the mafia just made a really suboptimal move for some reason?


----------



## Novae

if RNP was scum why not block mewtini and shoot emmy though


----------



## Novae

kyeugh said:


> to resummarize (mostly for my own use):
> 
> if rnp _is _scum, he blocked emmy and the mafia targeted someone else—likely mewtini, who would be covered by an unknown town healer
> if rnp _isn_'t scum, he and mewt both protected emmy, and the mafia probably targeted her for some reason?
> in either of these cases, it's possible the mafia simply targeted someone bulletproof/alien.
> i can't really wrap my head around the second bulletpoint though?  is there any explanation for this that i'm missing other than that the mafia just made a really suboptimal move for some reason?


if RNP is town there’s probably a mafia roleblocker that was on mewtini, yes?


----------



## Trebek

mewtini said:


> maybe that adds credence to the idea of mafia just targeting me then?





kyeugh said:


> to resummarize (mostly for my own use):
> 
> if rnp _is _scum, he blocked emmy and the mafia targeted someone else—likely mewtini, who would be covered by an unknown town healer
> if rnp _isn_'t scum, he and mewt both protected emmy, and the mafia probably targeted her for some reason?
> in either of these cases, it's possible the mafia simply targeted someone bulletproof/alien.
> i can't really wrap my head around the second bulletpoint though?  is there any explanation for this that i'm missing other than that the mafia just made a really suboptimal move for some reason?


as far as the second bullet point goes:

if i was maf after last EoD, there’s a chance that i would’ve gotten pinged by mewts confidence and decided to take the risk of there maybe being another healer targeting mewt 

just a possible explanation


----------



## mewtini

Trebek said:


> if i was maf after last EoD, there’s a chance that i would’ve gotten pinged by mewts confidence and decided to take the risk of there maybe being another healer targeting mewt


what do you mean by pinged here


----------



## mewtini

Mist1422 said:


> if RNP is town there’s probably a mafia roleblocker that was on mewtini, yes?


if they assume there's only one healer then yeah
this all falls apart if herbe is indeed mafia tbh


----------



## mewtini

Tofu said:


> I think people aren't getting that you were a one-shot healer (I thought you made this clear like at the start of toDay but maybe I imagined it)


i'm not a one-shot healer fwiw. that's why i was afraid that there might not be another doctor


----------



## Trebek

mewtini said:


> Trebek said:
> 
> 
> 
> if i was maf after last EoD, there’s a chance that i would’ve gotten pinged by mewts confidence and decided to take the risk of there maybe being another healer targeting mewt
> 
> 
> 
> what do you mean by pinged here
Click to expand...

like, it would have flagged me as “hmm, she’s probably being serious i shouldn’t attack emmy”

might have used ping incorrectly heh


----------



## kyeugh

Mist1422 said:


> if RNP was scum why not block mewtini and shoot emmy though


 who knows.  no matter what the mafia's actions last night are a pretty big question mark though


Mist1422 said:


> if RNP is town there’s probably a mafia roleblocker that was on mewtini, yes?


 that seems like fair conjecture but i'm not sure it's a safe assumption


----------



## Novae

mewtini and Emmy seem like the most logical kills last night, maybe herbe 

Outside shot of Tofu/VM I guess?


----------



## rari_teh

mewtini said:


> oh, question. if rnp is villa, then does it make sense for mafia to assume there was a second healer? it wasn't known that i was only a partial healer


i’m inclined to believe so, yes. specially since jack said that if there were multiple healers there wouldn’t be healclash, which would be unnecessary to say if there weren’t multiple healers

but in any case (i.e. regardless of RNP’s alignment) i think that three healing roles are a bit too much for a 14-people game? so i’m inclined to believe that there are no other doctors


----------



## Trebek

for all we know mafia could have been expecting a mysterious third healer to coin flip between emmy and mewt, in which case the best choice would be RB emmy and kill mewt/someone random


----------



## mewtini

rari_teh said:


> but in any case (i.e. regardless of RNP’s alignment) i think that three healing roles are a bit too much for a 14-people game?


not if rnp is roleblocker and was just lying tbh, then 1.5ish doctors sounds fine to me i think?



rari_teh said:


> which would be unnecessary to say if there weren’t multiple healers


i think he specifically said that it didn't have any bearing on whether or not there existed more than one healer


----------



## mewtini

ftr i'm not totally speccing w!rnp as a jailer, i've been thinking about it as a roleblocker. maybe that'll make my posts make a bit more sense haha


----------



## Trebek

tinfoilhat time rnp blocked emmy and no one died it’s emmy

jkjkjk


----------



## rari_teh

mewtini said:


> not if rnp is roleblocker and was just lying tbh, then 1.5ish doctors sounds fine to me i think?


very good point tbh


----------



## kyeugh

Trebek said:


> tinfoilhat time rnp blocked emmy and no one died it’s emmy
> 
> jkjkjk


 this is what he said when he revealed that he'd blocked emmy.  it'll be huge loltown if it's true tbh


----------



## rari_teh

if rnp dies and flips green, emmy survives and she checks an obvious town as green i’ll be inclined to believe that rnp’s tinfoil is legit


----------



## mewtini

i'd scream


----------



## kyeugh

hm, i'm going to put my vote back on *redneckphoenix*. i think no matter what this is a very useful flip that will answer a lot of questions for us


----------



## mewtini

i want to say _no infolynching!!!_ but i'm vibing with my vote heh


----------



## kyeugh

it's not even necessarily an infolynch, i think the odds that he flips scum are like 50% tbh?  maybe more?  but even if he doesn't it won't be a huge deal, we'll learn a lot from it.  so i feel ok sitting here


----------



## Butterfree

kyeugh said:


> hmmm, thinking for a minute, the facts are that emmy didn’t die last night, there was no mafia kill, AND she had her action blocked.  if we take mewtini at her word that she healed emmy, the worlds here are:
> 
> v!rnp jailed emmy, and the mafia targeted her.
> w!rnp targeted emmy, and the mafia targeted someone else, who was either bulletproof, an alien, or protected by a second town healer.
> i’m kind of thinking the first option is more probable here? i’m going to *unvote* for now.


Isn't it pretty possible that the mafia gambled on there not being a second doctor and targeted mewtini, who was then healed by a second doctor that did in fact exist?


----------



## mewtini

yeah, that's why i brought up that i hadn't said yet that i wasn't a full doctor. in that case there's another doctor but the mafia might not have realized that

but then it comes down to 'would they have been that convinced that there was only one doctor'


----------



## Novae

no infolynching

also am I insane for considering a world where butterfree is a mafia fishing brother who was partnered with mawile and scum![tofu/VM] is fakeclaiming the vig shots


----------



## kyeugh

Butterfree said:


> kyeugh said:
> 
> 
> 
> hmmm, thinking for a minute, the facts are that emmy didn’t die last night, there was no mafia kill, AND she had her action blocked.  if we take mewtini at her word that she healed emmy, the worlds here are:
> 
> v!rnp jailed emmy, and the mafia targeted her.
> w!rnp targeted emmy, and the mafia targeted someone else, who was either bulletproof, an alien, or protected by a second town healer.
> i’m kind of thinking the first option is more probable here? i’m going to *unvote* for now.
> 
> 
> 
> Isn't it pretty possible that the mafia gambled on there not being a second doctor and targeted mewtini, who was then healed by a second doctor that did in fact exist?
Click to expand...

yep, i have come around to this tbh.


----------



## Novae

also am I correct in remembering that whichever of tofu/VM wasn't the vig claimed watcher?

because if that's legit it could be helpful


----------



## kyeugh

Mist1422 said:


> also am I correct in remembering that whichever of tofu/VM wasn't the vig claimed watcher?


 that part was a lie

also i don't think mafia fishing brothers really makes sense tbh.  nothing is impossible but it's going to be a while before i start seriously considering that


----------



## mewtini

i believe so yeah


----------



## rari_teh

Mist1422 said:


> also am I insane for considering a world where butterfree is a mafia fishing brother who was partnered with mawile and scum![tofu/VM] is fakeclaiming the vig shots


considering that myuma appeared on the basement, i’d say yes


----------



## mewtini

wait, was it a lie?


----------



## kyeugh

Vipera Magnifica said:


> the thing about one of us being a watcher was a lie, i figured kyeugh might feasibly know who the vig is if she was a watcher, but only town!kyeugh would say "this isn't right, i'm the watcher actually" and mafia!kyeugh would come up with a different excuse. skylar's response to that test isn't one that makes me think it's impossible for her to be scum, but i am certainly more inclined to trust her for the time being


----------



## rari_teh

***in the basement. fuck me


----------



## rari_teh

so we’re at 2/3 of D3… at the moment the wagons are
RedneckPhoenix: 6 (Bluwiikoon, Trebek, kyeugh, Vipera Magnifica, Tofu, mewtini)
Keldeo: 2 (Herbe, rari_teh)
IndigoEmmy: 1 (RedneckPhoenix)
Vipera Magnifica: 1 (Mist1422)


----------



## Trebek

hrmmmmmm brain hurt


----------



## Keldeo

rari_teh said:


> so we’re at 2/3 of D3… at the moment the wagons are
> RedneckPhoenix: 6 (Bluwiikoon, Trebek, kyeugh, Vipera Magnifica, Tofu, mewtini)
> Keldeo: 2 (Herbe, rari_teh)
> IndigoEmmy: 1 (RedneckPhoenix)
> Vipera Magnifica: 1 (Mist1422)


You’re missing my vote on MP7.

This is an interesting wagon. Like, I’m genuinely interested to read up and see what happened.


----------



## JackPK

Reminder: The day phase will end in *23 hours 45 minutes*. Sorry that I keep aiming for 24 hours and slightly missing it haha

Active votes:
Herbe votes Keldeo (#2539)
Mist1422 votes Vipera Magnifica (#2779)
Keldeo votes M Plus 7 (#2899)
RedneckPhoenix votes IndigoEmmy (#2911)
Vipera Magnifica votes RedneckPhoenix (#2931)
Tofu votes RedneckPhoenix (#2934)
mewtini votes RedneckPhoenix (#2941)
Bluwiikoon votes RedneckPhoenix (#2946)
rari_teh votes Keldeo (#2951)
Trebek votes RedneckPhoenix (#2965)
kyeugh votes RedneckPhoenix (#3075)



Spoiler: Full vote history



Active votes bolded. Invalid votes stricken through.

*Herbe votes Keldeo (#2539)*
mewtini votes Keldeo (#2541)
*Mist1422 votes Vipera Magnifica (#2779)*
rari_teh votes Vipera Magnifica (#2785)
*Keldeo votes M Plus 7 (#2899)
RedneckPhoenix votes IndigoEmmy (#2911)
Vipera Magnifica votes RedneckPhoenix (#2931)*
kyeugh votes RedneckPhoenix (#2932)
*Tofu votes RedneckPhoenix (#2934)*
mewtini votes RedneckPhoenix (#2936)
mewtini votes kyeugh (#2939)
Trebek votes RedneckPhoenix (#2940)
*mewtini votes RedneckPhoenix (#2941)
Bluwiikoon votes RedneckPhoenix (#2946)*
Trebek votes Santa (#2948)
*rari_teh votes Keldeo (#2951)
Trebek votes RedneckPhoenix (#2965)*
kyeugh unvotes (#2983)
*kyeugh votes RedneckPhoenix (#3075)*


----------



## rari_teh

Keldeo said:


> You’re missing my vote on MP7.


woot, thanks for the heads up

so we’re at 2/3 of D3… at the moment the wagons are
RedneckPhoenix: 6 (Bluwiikoon, Trebek, kyeugh, Vipera Magnifica, Tofu, mewtini)
Keldeo: 2 (Herbe, rari_teh)
IndigoEmmy: 1 (RedneckPhoenix)
Vipera Magnifica: 1 (Mist1422)
M Plus 7: 1 (Keldeo)


----------



## rari_teh

woop, ninja’d by the GM


JackPK said:


> Trebek votes Santa (#2948)


lol


----------



## Trebek

i would’ve been concerned if that wasn’t an invalid vote lmao


----------



## kyeugh

anxiously awaiting keldeo to read up


----------



## Keldeo

kyeugh said:


> anxiously awaiting keldeo to read up


kyeuuuuugh!


----------



## Keldeo

Tofu said:


> Blu, why in the heck would either of us give each other our (correct) roles if one of us were mafia?


Noting that I'm also confused about Blu's perspective re: this read he had. I guess process of elimination makes sense but it feels hasty.


----------



## IndigoClaudia

*redneckpheonix*

i'll explain why in an hour or so!


----------



## IndigoClaudia

EMMY OUT

MIC DROP


----------



## Keldeo

I think the reason that I want to sheep mewtini on her clears is that it simplifies things heavily and contracts the pool of people to focus on, for me, but I see what people are saying about not having enough mafia in the rest. I know I still haven't talked about what makes Herbe town in both worlds to me hrm.



M Plus 7 said:


> My schedule is something right now, my apologies all. Definitely will be around throughout the day as I balance work.


I know you're not like trying to avoid me but please come and talk to me man. I want to get there if you're town.



kyeugh said:


> currently looking at the player list and if i put aside vm/keldeo/herbe + my towncore right now, my list of *shrug* is kind of getting narrowed down... i have some kind of opinion on pretty much everyone there but koko.  can anyone offer thoughts on em?  i feel like stuff has been said but it's been sort of few and far between, and i don't think i have a strong feeling on em.  feels like a bit of a blind spot for me.


If you want to talk more about koko, I looked at em a bit last night. I think we have a similar view on em that e's fairly towny for how e treated Ultracool, in an ingroup Ultracool world. (In an outgroup Ultracool world, that self-consciousness about eir vote reads kind of weirdly to me, like preemptively giving eir future self slack for voting a "townie".) I'm not as sold on the defending ILS thing that you mentioned as you seem to be but I guess it makes sense for town em in either world.


----------



## mewtini

Keldeo said:


> I think the reason that I want to sheep mewtini on her clears is that it simplifies things heavily and contracts the pool of people to focus on, for me, but I see what people are saying about not having enough mafia in the rest.


hahaha. yeah it's freaking me out too, honestly. i will preemptively say that, if push comes to shove, i'll probably be a bit less tight-lipped - i just don't see a point in elaborating right now



Keldeo said:


> I know I still haven't talked about what makes Herbe town in both worlds to me hrm.


yeah i am still wondering/curious about this! something happened and now i'm kind of freaked about herbe lol

in re: kokorico i kind of just don't think defending townies takes all that much work and it keeps em at a nebulous read for me, at least compared to the clear list


----------



## Keldeo

Butterfree said:


> For mafia it’s basically a nerfed roleblocker (can block townies, but the mafia can’t simultaneously attempt to kill them.


This was basically my thought about jailer btw, but also I think Jack is the type of GM to add tradeoff-type roles, like I vaguely remember the money system in Capitalist Democracy mafia being like? So then in the original 14-player game, with a vig apparently in this setup, the mafia would actually be able to defensively jail and protect one of their own, but in exchange for losing that player's power that night. I think that's kind of an interesting dynamic idk.

I don't think Butterfree should claim her brother either.


----------



## mewtini

mewtini said:


> in re: kokorico i kind of just don't think defending townies takes all that much work and it keeps em at a nebulous read for me, at least compared to the clear list


to be quite honest i feel kind of weird about the encounter i had with em and i think i need to sit with it a bit longer to make sure it's not just an emotional read on my part. i'd previously been townleaning em for the ILS/myuma defenses but like, in the worst case, is it difficult to defend town when you know they're town ... ?


----------



## Keldeo

No, it's not really that hard to defend town when you know they're town. I guess it's just a weird strategy to defend town LHF.

What do you think of koko's interactions with Ultracool / eir shift onto Ultracool, mewtini? I talked about this a bit last night and so did Skylar in a post after that one I quoted. Do you think that was a bus, because it doesn't suuuper read that way to me (i.e. koko is either not mafia, or one of em/Ultracool would be outgroup - I know the outgroup theory is kind of, mm, restricted at this point)


----------



## Keldeo

I'll laugh so hard if kokorico is actually nitroglycerchicken terrorist again tbh


----------



## Keldeo

Hmmm. I generally agree with what people are saying about RNP where I'm at but now I want to hear whatever Emmy has to say. 



rari_teh said:


> ok. i just caught up and have a longpost in the works, but i gotta do this first
> i see where y’all are coming from wrt rnp, but *i don’t love how fast this wagon is growing* and *frankly i think that keldeo is more likely to be maf than vm*
> so *keldeo* for now


Tell me about these bolded sections? I don't think wagon speed is indicative of that much. 

Do you have any interest in engaging with me or like... talking about my actual content? I know mewtini is clearing you but it feels kind of misrepresentative that you've painted everything that I did as NAI.


----------



## IndigoClaudia

I'm back
kinda


----------



## Keldeo

Trebek said:


> what if maf is mewt/skylar/rari/herbe/emmy and they’re all  just furiously dabbing on us rn
> 
> plz don’t take this seriously


The big dab mafia team is Herbe/Emmy where Herbe rolecopped Seshas as the cop so Emmy could claim, and is just making up something vague about mewtini's role

(also not serious)


----------



## Keldeo

IndigoEmmy said:


> I'm back
> kinda


Hi! Can you explain your RNP vote?


----------



## Keldeo

I'm going to be a hipster and stay off wagon because it doesn't need my help, but hmmmm mmm.

I agree that Emmy does plainly seems like a bad target for the mafia kill last night? But I kind of don't want to try to mindread the mafia's nightkill here because with the Seshas kill I think there's probably something going on that's mysterious/non-obvious here.


----------



## IndigoClaudia

Keldeo said:


> IndigoEmmy said:
> 
> 
> 
> I'm back
> kinda
> 
> 
> 
> Hi! Can you explain your RNP vote?
Click to expand...

1 - lots of others are doing it
2 - I'm getting interesting vibes.


----------



## Keldeo

Oh, sorry, I thought there was something mechanical about it. Carry on, hehe.


----------



## Keldeo

Keldeo said:


> I'll laugh so hard if kokorico is actually nitroglycerchicken terrorist again tbh


okay now I agree with people saying that terrorist probably would have exploded any one of the claims by now, unless there’s some restriction on their action or... something


----------



## Keldeo

kyeugh said:


> Mist1422 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> kyeugh said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mist1422 said:
> 
> 
> 
> hmm 5 scum alive
> 
> RNP isn't technically clear but if he told the truth about his ability and mewtini is a healer who targeted emmy he's clear because why would he protect the kill target
> 
> yes? maybe?
> 
> 
> 
> because emmy wouldn’t be the kill target in that case
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> then what happened to the kill
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> it was blocked by another healer. if rnp is scum there are probably two healers imo
Click to expand...

There are two cats inside you. One of them heals with magic, and the other heals with nanobots


----------



## rari_teh

Keldeo said:


> rari_teh said:
> 
> 
> 
> ok. i just caught up and have a longpost in the works, but i gotta do this first
> i see where y’all are coming from wrt rnp, but *i don’t love how fast this wagon is growing* and *frankly i think that keldeo is more likely to be maf than vm*
> so *keldeo* for now
> 
> 
> 
> Tell me about these bolded sections? I don't think wagon speed is indicative of that much.
Click to expand...

the main thing is that the way the wagon grew was kinda jarring for me tbh
like

somebody: uuuh hey guys what if rnp is mafia roleblocker? lmao emmy vote weird
literally everybody: omg *votes*

when rnp’s vote wasn’t really AI and his role can be just as well another town half-doctor? this is way too flimsy in my view to grow that fast, and while i’m sure at least two people involved in that rapidwagonforming are town, the smell isn’t good for me
and even if he is indeed the mafia roleblocker (which frankly is a theory i have difficulty believing in) i can kinda see it as rapid bussing btw



Keldeo said:


> Do you have any interest in engaging with me or like... talking about my actual content? I know mewtini is clearing you but it feels kind of misrepresentative that you've painted everything that I did as NAI.


tbh I did a semi-rough ISO of your posts last irl-night and i couldn’t pinpoint a single post that was either damning or redeeming, and considering that (maybe unfortunately? sorry lol) your wagon doesn’t seem to be in the way of prosperity, i think i’m comfortable for the time being to just say that you are a big puzzle with lots of pieces that, when put together, form an absolutely unclear image
my scumlean on you is based on that, on your myuma and herbe wagonmounting and on the fact that i have too few neutrals
even if i didn’t █████████████████████████████ mewtini i’d still have the same stance on you tbh


----------



## Trebek

Keldeo said:


> I don't think wagon speed is indicative of that much.


i feel like im agreeing with this? idk, it feels like at this point in the day phase, where theres still 22 hours before anyone dies, the mafia can super easily decide to just speed up or slow down a wagon, bc its not like they have to actually commit to a bus.


----------



## rari_teh

Keldeo said:


> Trebek said:
> 
> 
> 
> what if maf is mewt/skylar/rari/herbe/emmy and they’re all  just furiously dabbing on us rn
> 
> plz don’t take this seriously
> 
> 
> 
> The big dab mafia team is Herbe/Emmy where Herbe rolecopped Seshas as the cop so Emmy could claim, and is just making up something vague about mewtini's role
> 
> (also not serious)
Click to expand...

to be extremely honest i had a megatinfoil epiphany a few hours ago where this (kel’s joke) is true
i’ll only air it toMorrow if some specific things that would lead credence to it happen tbh


----------



## rari_teh

rari_teh said:


> to be extremely honest i had a megatinfoil epiphany a few hours ago where this (kel’s joke) is true


partly true, that is
there’s one detail that’s slightly different


----------



## kyeugh

rari_teh said:


> the main thing is that the way the wagon grew was kinda jarring for me tbh
> like
> 
> somebody: uuuh hey guys what if rnp is mafia roleblocker? lmao emmy vote weird
> literally everybody: omg *votes*


i think this kind of misses the point of the wagon but also yeah, if someone looks scummy in a way that a lot of people think makes sense and there are a lot of people sitting in the thread at that time, then the wagon is going to blow up pretty quickly. while that can be the result of foul play it doesn’t really have to be and unless you’re scumreading one of the early voters i don’t think it really makes sense to regard it that way


----------



## rari_teh

kyeugh said:


> unless you’re scumreading one of the early voters i don’t think it really makes sense to regard it that way


i kind of am tbh


----------



## kyeugh

spill!!!!


----------



## rari_teh

tofu


----------



## Keldeo

kyeugh said:


> this is pretty much where i'm at too except rnp is in there





mewtini said:


> oh hey, that's almost my PoE!





Spoiler


----------



## mewtini

Keldeo said:


> kyeugh said:
> 
> 
> 
> this is pretty much where i'm at too except rnp is in there
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> mewtini said:
> 
> 
> 
> oh hey, that's almost my PoE!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler
Click to expand...

the image broke and now im sad.


----------



## rari_teh

_sad trombone noises_


----------



## Keldeo

:<



Spoiler: hi guys I'm back with a working bit






			https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/698034599044841523/720743047306149908/unknown.png


----------



## mewtini

i love keldeo


----------



## Trebek

that was the most pure set of posts ive seen on this thread ngl


----------



## Trebek

rari_teh said:


> tofu


would be interested in hearing more about this :0


----------



## Tofu

As would I... I gave my reasons for voting. Rnp annoyed and confused me and I wanted to hear others' opinions.


----------



## rari_teh

Trebek said:


> rari_teh said:
> 
> 
> 
> tofu
> 
> 
> 
> would be interested in hearing more about this :0
Click to expand...

it is a collection of small things tbh
- her thoughts seem to be extremely reactive and against the grain, and not in a good way
- the fact that she threw shade on kyeugh for vigspeccing (when it was VM who pressed her to explain her thoughts) and then a few pages after, completely out of nowhere, claimed that there is indeed a vig between her and VM pings me in a terrible way
- if my megatinfoil is right (which is seeping into my brain by the minute and will probably only be shaken off once rnp flips red), tofu is maf


----------



## rari_teh

Tofu said:


> As would I... I gave my reasons for voting. Rnp annoyed and confused me and I wanted to hear others' opinions.


oh and by the way wasn’t it you who was staunchily against sciencevoting right until sciencevoting rnp? (apologies if i’m misremembering)


----------



## Keldeo

rari_teh said:


> - her thoughts seem to be extremely reactive and against the grain, and not in a good way


How is this scummy to you / can you point at specific examples? To my mind, stubbornly acting against the grain draws attention in a way that a newer mafia is more likely to avoid. And how do you factor in her vote on Ultracool?

I guess my POV is there doesn't seem like a ton of reason for me to distrust VM's read on her atm.


----------



## Vipera Magnifica

mewtini said:


> i love keldeo





Spoiler


----------



## rari_teh

Keldeo said:


> rari_teh said:
> 
> 
> 
> - her thoughts seem to be extremely reactive and against the grain, and not in a good way
> 
> 
> 
> How is this scummy to you / can you point at specific examples? To my mind, stubbornly acting against the grain draws attention in a way that a newer mafia is more likely to avoid. And how do you factor in her vote on Ultracool?
Click to expand...

her vote on ultracool could just as well be bussing or distancing tbh

now wrt specific examples:


Tofu said:


> I'm wondering why the same small handful of people are dominating the discussion. Boredom is a valid reason, but I see more investment in this. I read that much investment as suspicious, because it gives the power to a smaller group of people who are able to influence others by just being more vocal, which seems like a mafia-y thing to do. I would like to hear from some others who have managed to follow the discussion.
> 
> There are 17 people alive.
> 
> I'm side-eying Mewtini and Skylar at this point.
> 
> Btw, why would posting slightly or more or less memes mean anything lmao


i formerly saw this as excited!newbie townie looking for mafia, but i’m increasingly seeing this more like excited!newbie mafia fishing for improbable wagons, in the same way that ultracool was doing with kyeugh and others D1


Tofu said:


> Most of what I have seen of people defending Skylar has been "oh, hypocop" and, while I get why people do that, it irritates me because clearly not everyone is a cop and it's like an excuse to just give a name with no reasoning under the guise of covering for the real cop. Information without reason makes me suspicious, and why are so many people doing it for the same person?
> […]
> I read it as just an interesting post trying to figure out probabilities, when at that point we had limited information (and, we still do). Because of that post, I think it helped me to gain perspective on what we could be dealing with in the game, and, while I think vm is rightly suspicious of Skylar, I don't think the numbers were meant to be a clear indication but were just for like, interest/observation (which is what we're supposed to be doing, right...) To me it looks like it's being skewed and not being looked at objectively.


this feels like an extremely pushy attempt to fuel kyeugh’s wagon, as in speaking about subjective stuff as if it was objective, if that makes sense

there’s probably more, but i think that’s enough for now. tell me if i’m wrong


----------



## Keldeo

Hey devil's advocate, why would RNP claim to have jailed Emmy if the conclusion is that this situation is more likely if he's mafia? Like Emmy isn't gonna get suspected, so just for kicks, or so that someone would make this argument, or because the plan around mewtini's heal was still opaque?


----------



## mewtini

i have some feelings on this but need to substantiate them a bit (have been playing very lazily since midyesterday) but fwiw i think at least one of the wolves is going to be like. 'findable' or conspicuous looking ... i'm probably getting sucked into confbiasing everyone/getting triggerhappy i think but i think falling into the "they seem towny" trap works for like everyone in my PoE/nonclear pile right now haha. does that make sense?


----------



## mewtini

also if one of VM/tofu is mafia i think it's not VM


----------



## mewtini

mewtini said:


> i think but i think


jfc


----------



## rari_teh

fuck my life. *unvote*


----------



## kyeugh

Keldeo said:


> Hey devil's advocate, why would RNP claim to have jailed Emmy if the conclusion is that this situation is more likely if he's mafia? Like Emmy isn't gonna get suspected, so just for kicks, or so that someone would make this argument, or because the plan around mewtini's heal was still opaque?


 maybe he thought the thing about "i blocked her and there was no kill" would work?

i think if he's scum then maybe this entire thing isn't cohesively orchestrated but rather a series of decisions that made sense to him at the time: claiming his role and being honest about his targets so he could get information out and be townread for it; suggesting that emmy is mafia because he blocked her and there was no kill and the connection is an understandable one to make at surface level; pretending to be disengaged with the game to remove liability from himself for his reads/decisions etc.


----------



## Keldeo

Mm, okay, that makes sense, Skylar. I do think he's telling the truth about being disengaged from the thread regardless of his alignment, but I get that that doesn't really influence the main point you're making. 



rari_teh said:


> fuck my life. *unvote*


Hmm?

Can you explain what you mean when you say Tofu's vote could be bussing/distancing? Like technically any vote on mafia could be that way, is there like, something specific that makes you think that?

Also, sorry if you mentioned it somewhere, but can you just clarify for me what your current read on RNP is?


----------



## Keldeo

mewtini said:


> i have some feelings on this but need to substantiate them a bit (have been playing very lazily since midyesterday) but fwiw i think at least one of the wolves is going to be like. 'findable' or conspicuous looking ... i'm probably getting sucked into confbiasing everyone/getting triggerhappy i think but i think falling into the "they seem towny" trap works for like everyone in my PoE/nonclear pile right now haha. does that make sense?


Sorry, I'm kind of not understanding what you're getting at here? Can you rephrase or something?

Gonna talk about Herbe and then do some more ISOs/interaction searching for a bit here. I feel somewhat better about Ultracool being in-group because of the small setup read, I think.


----------



## mewtini

when half of the roster is mechcleared, we have to heavily reassess those clears and/or look really carefully at those who aren't. for part (a), i'm a little afraid that i'm giving herbe too much of a pass (though i don't really regret it at EoD considering we still hit scum). for part (b) i was saying that i'm admittedly confbiasing myself into finding suspicious things in latter group's posting, but within that frame of reference i am growing less sympathetic to the "newbie mafia wouldn't put themselves out there" train of thought, which is still what i think the pro-tofu defenses have mostly amounted to unless i'm missing something


----------



## mewtini

not to say that that isn't a valid archetype, i just don't think it holds so much that tofu is significantly less worth looking into than others in the PoE


----------



## mewtini

also part (a) depends a lot on me grasping the numerous worlds we talked about and i've been phoning it in all day so i need to read back and think harder there


----------



## Keldeo

Okay, thanks, I understand better. I'm going to take more of a look at Tofu for sure then, but I just keep coming back to the fact that VM on day 2 or whatever was like, the strongest thing he believes in is that Tofu is town? I don't know. I know it's kind of bad to make a read based on a read based on out-of-game stuff.


----------



## rari_teh

Keldeo said:


> rari_teh said:
> 
> 
> 
> fuck my life. *unvote*
> 
> 
> 
> Hmm?
Click to expand...

I am getting more convinced that my theory is correct. If it is, there’s little to no way that you’re mafia. Still won’t air it until toMorrow if the happenings keep corroborating the tinfoil, though


Keldeo said:


> Can you explain what you mean when you say Tofu's vote could be bussing/distancing? Like technically any vote on mafia could be that way, is there like, something specific that makes you think that?


there is something specific, but it is intrinsically connected to my major theory and i’d rather not say it for the moment, sorry
also the fact that my tinfoil is going to become either very likely to be true or completely impossible depending on this Night’s flips and happenings is what keeps me from starting a Tofu wagon tbh


Keldeo said:


> Also, sorry if you mentioned it somewhere, but can you just clarify for me what your current read on RNP is?


for me he’s likely telling the truth tbh


----------



## Keldeo

Is there a reason that you don't want to just make your tinfoil/theory public now so that we can discuss it with all the available information? I don't really know how to evaluate this.


----------



## Novae

did herbe claim a result from last night?

I don't remember


----------



## mewtini

Mist1422 said:


> did herbe claim a result from last night?
> 
> I don't remember


claimed he investigated ILS, who died; ILS was one of the town PRs. didn't reveal it for fear of narrowing down possibilities for mafia


----------



## Keldeo

I liek Squirtles said:


> spicy shit going down rn tbh,, this is some wild shit


ILS was underappreciated in his time tbh.


----------



## mewtini

@I liek Squirtles i'm sorry you died. ily king


----------



## Tangrowth

Hey everyone! Phew. Actually have some time now. I'm almost done with my Blu ISO from yesterday, so I hope to post that momentarily.


----------



## rari_teh

Keldeo said:


> Is there a reason that you don't want to just make your tinfoil/theory public now so that we can discuss it with all the available information? I don't really know how to evaluate this.


yes, there is. i ask you to bear with me for a Day, because at this moment there’s a good chance i’m very wrong. but depending on how things go (specially how rnp flips), i’m probably very right
i’d also like to not discuss this any further for the Day because i feel like it’s unnecessarily diverting town’s attention too much tbh


----------



## mewtini

interesting?

i think i'm mostly waiting on the town!herbe case atm


----------



## Tangrowth

*ISO of Blu*

In doing this ISO I was specifically trying to make an alignment read but also look for potential w/w, v/w, or v/v interactions, but with a heavy emphasis on w/w or w/v. Any input would be incredibly appreciated.



Spoiler






Bluwiikoon said:


> Actual discussion thoughts tho:
> 
> If it wasn't just a random kill, is it worth assuming Mawile was chosen as the mafia's target due to his good plays in TVTropes Mafia? Whilst also leaving other experienced players alone so as to frame them as scumreads due to said experience





I'm not sure what to make of this, but after reviewing Blu's ISO in full, a substantial amount of posts and/or reads are made in this fashion, like... suggesting shade without committing to it? I lean towards it being wolfier than not.



Spoiler






Bluwiikoon said:


> :D myuma is another animal crossing cat bro!! The squad assembles
> 
> In response to Keldeo asking about thoughts, here's what I've got!
> 
> -Keldeo is my hypocop clear of course.
> 
> -I feel good about mewtini because she is very solvy rn and trying to puzzle things out with us. Still needs pats tho ;o; Nooo self-depreciation!! You did great last game imo! Pwease no feel bad
> 
> -I have some suspicions about Seshas for some reason  Could just be unfounded based on my earlier WIFOM tinhatting however! As far as I can recall, they didn't actually respond to my tinhatting (not that WMG deserves much of a response)
> 
> -kokorico's put some good thoughts out there in eir analysis post! Even if I'm wary of Seshas compared to kokorico, I respect eir thoughts on the matter. ^^ Agree about the Emmy thing
> 
> -kyeugh/qva feels alright to me so far. No super strong feelings but we'll see!
> 
> -Herbe is of course my AC bro >:o Tangyyy!! I wanna trust Herbe LOL
> 
> -myuma trying their best with the limited clues we have, which seems towny. :D Not sure how I feel about putting weight into online status but the effort feels towny. Also AC bro!
> 
> -IndigoEmmy feels different as I've mentioned, but again, could just be getting used to more mafia games. She hasn't really tried to contribute to any Vibe Discussions or speculation as of yet if that's worth noting.






Now I know this is an early-game reads list, so I don't expect this to be airtight, but there are a couple of minor observations I want to make. First, it feels sort of... player salad-y to me, like some of these reads are vague enough that I cannot obtain an interpretation of anything alignment-indicative, and the player is mentioned for no apparent reason (like a null read)? Second, some of the wording reads rather stilted or using vocabulary that I think purposefully sidesteps giving an alignment read. And lastly, I'm getting slight w/w potential for Blu/Keldeo here given the way Blu addresses it in an awkward way.



Spoiler






Bluwiikoon said:


> M Plus 7 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Bluwiikoon said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> M Plus 7 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Bluwiikoon said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> M Plus 7 said:
> 
> 
> 
> What vibes do you have right now? Apologies if you've spoken to this already, I still haven't read most of the thread, lol.
> 
> 
> 
> No worries! ^^ I feel pretty good about kyeugh and mewtini, and I really townlean mewtini especially. Keldeo is my cop cover but I also like how he incites discussions. Pretty good feelings about you too based on tone, and Superjolt ^^
> 
> The Great Trebek Push made me  about rari, purely based on the fact that I hadn't noticed much activity from them and then the Push resulted in a lot of activity from them in a short space of time. Other than that, not sure to make of RNP and Stryke :-( RNP is allegedly Always Like That, but it seems like they're a bit unhappy about any kind of voting on D1, particularly against Stryke. Meanwhile, Stryke's reaction to their wagon is equivalent to a (shrug)
> 
> Also not sure what to think of VM due to tone atm, or any people that haven't really posted much. But hey, probably more mech stuff on d2!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Awesome, this is definitely helpful, thanks. Can you expand on the rari thoughts there? Like, how would you think that impacts your read of their alignment at all?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Sure thing! I feel like it's probably not necessarily indicative of anything right now, but I'd probably just want to keep an eye on other posts they make going forward. Others generally seem to feel ok about rari, so I don't really want to scumread them yet unless they make any other strange-feeling plays. Additionally, mewtini said that her and rari acted pretty similarly during the Trebek Incident, but I kinda skimmed mewtini's posts throughout that section due to having such a big townlean on her already ^^
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Okay, cool, this works. Thanks much!
> 
> How are you feeling about the gamestate and your vote now then? Looks like we're 1 hour out. Are there players you want me to look at with urgency? I'm still making my way through mewtini's reads list and sort of digging back for various context, but I love taking requests anyway.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Butterfree's thoughts on Herbe made me question Herbe's posting a bit, but other than that, I kinda feel like everyone else has pretty much every speculation point covered. IndigoEmmy still feels a bit different to me, but she still does the same thing of following along with everyone else's wagons and not inputting too much else otherwise, which is similar to her in tvt (where she was town).
> 
> Gonna have to look at vote tallies for now to decide  Not sure how much wagons can surge with 25 minutes left
Click to expand...





I'm struggling a bit to see the progression from the last reads list to some of the reads given here, and I'm torn about it. The bit about RNP reads potentially w/w or w/v.



Spoiler






Bluwiikoon said:


> I think after reading everyone's points I have stronger feelings about lynching *myuma* than Stryke, so I'll just park a vote there for now unless anything else comes to light.  Sorry myuma, it's gotta be someone ;o;





Bluwiikoon said:


> This seems uhhhhh
> 
> Kind of... interesting? That the deaths are some of the main suspects we had   That's scary!








Spoiler






Bluwiikoon said:


> Very strange for the mafia to eliminate one of our main suspects... the vig I can understand, however!






These two posts in succession stood out as a bit stilted.



Spoiler






Bluwiikoon said:


> Just skimming back rn
> 
> 
> 
> I liek Squirtles said:
> 
> 
> 
> Personally I'm not suuuper buying the 'Mr Ultracool is mafia because Seshas is dead' thing because it sticks out like a sore thumb to me. Similarly I'm not super buying VM's skylar theory but I'd still like to explore this a little bit for Science.
> 
> 
> 
> kyeugh said:
> 
> 
> 
> i think if the mr ultracool wagon turned into a myuma one and we were between stryke/myuma that would feel ideal
> 
> 
> 
> I was looking through skylar's post history and I'm curious about this, since it would kind of feed into both theories.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> @I liek Squirtles Hi buddy! ^^ Haven't seen you in thread for a little while, it's great to hear from you! Just wondering, what in particular made you feel strongly inclined to post your thoughts about the Ultracool and kyeugh theories?
Click to expand...





The fact that Blu asked ILS about this without directly offering any input on the theories at face value is questionable, but it also reads like a question one would ask a partner... if I didn't already know ILS flipped town. So otherwise it's just strange.



Spoiler






Bluwiikoon said:


> Keldeo said:
> 
> 
> 
> I am gonna quickly eat something and then I’ll be back.
> 
> @Bluwiikoon if you had to choose between the two main wagons (Ultracool and Herbe) (with a third option of starting a new wagon) what would you pick?
> 
> 
> 
> I think *Herbe* for now. In day one they kept mentioning how towny they are and uhhhh honestly? I feel like a rolecop is kind of a huge risk for any town power roles, especially considering y'all are saying rolecop is usually a mafia role >:o Unless we get a specific cat claim from Herbe that people knowledgeable in The Lore can explain as being rolecop AND town, I'm ok putting my vote there. Sorry tangy bro ;o;
> 
> Tfw I realise my grocery delivery arrives anywhere in the next two hours  Sorry if I get sparse, I'll try my best!
Click to expand...







Spoiler






Bluwiikoon said:


> M Plus 7 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Bluwiikoon said:
> 
> 
> 
> I can't speak for anyone else but I just trust butterfree's judgement on the Herbe matter tbh
> 
> 
> 
> What do you mean by this?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Butterfree was the first one I can recall having suspicions about Herbe based on D1 "haha, it's so different playing as town!" esque posts Herbe made. It really made me reconsider my Herbe feelings because up until then I felt they were legit towny, and the rolecop stuff also seems suspect imo.
Click to expand...





I personally don't think from a wagon perspective that Herbe/UC was w/w, so this is in retrospect a problematic vote post.



Spoiler






Bluwiikoon said:


> Will explain alien stuff tomorrow if I live. Peace!






The "if I live" bit reads very awkwardly tacked on, especially considering the circumstances of claims.



Spoiler






Bluwiikoon said:


> I'm honestly feeling more and more  about Keldeo. His playstyle being the same in most circumstances would definitely do a really good job of masking himself if he is mafia. There was some weird posts from him around EOD yesterDay too, right?
> 
> It is so hard to form thoughts on other people that don't say too much  Other than that, I have some minor feelings about kyeugh. Not because of emmy's failed check (although, she did "ask" the cop to inspect kyeugh at some point I believe) but just more and more Strange Things building up. May be WIFOM but I don't always buy that the jokes are complete jokes LOL






This also reads vaguely like Keldeo could be a Blu wolfmate.



Spoiler






Bluwiikoon said:


> Keldeo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Bluwiikoon said:
> 
> 
> 
> Herbe cleared Butterfree as a fishing brother, and Herbe also claimed to have inspected mewtini n0, and yet mewtini was not shanked already despite apparently having a role that the mafia would not enjoy. ^^
> 
> 
> 
> Cool, thank you. Who are your main suspicions within the bottom pile? Is there anyone besides me that you think we should be looking at?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> So if three of the remaining people are town or 3p, then, uhhhh (checks writing on hand)
> 
> Keldeo - Sorry to suspect you bro but I'd probably mark you as red
> kokorico - Idk sorry
> Trebek - We had some good feelings about them during the Trebekkening! Which, of course, was spearheaded by Keldeo...
> M Plus 7 - Idk tbh
> Tofu - VM was like  at her role, and yet didn't move to lynch her. I'd assume 3p unless they're in it together
> Bluwiikoon - I'm town, of course.
> Vipera Magnifica - Just vibes tbh, and if we accept kyeugh as innocent then the statistics REALLY looks bad
> Mist1422 - Idk
Click to expand...





I'm... not sure what to make of these reads.



Spoiler






Bluwiikoon said:


> Jailer would make a pretty convincing cover for a mafia roleblocker, huh? I see where all you guys are coming from
> 
> And if I revisit my Spicy Roster List, marking RNP as red allows someone else whom is Unconfirmed to be green (like a greenlist of Me, VM and Tofu, and possibly Trebek or koko). I think I like that a bit more, especially since either VM or Tofu are confirmed vig now? It also doesn't do us any favours for the cop to get roleblocked out of some weird memey grudge.
> 
> *RedneckPhoenix*






This smells like a potential bus.

--------------------------------------------------------------

Conclusion: There's a ratio of game-related content to non-game-related content especially early that is a bit less than desirable. Many scattered awkward moments, including reads that aren't really reads? Potential w/w equity with Keldeo and RNP that I think is at least notable.

I strongly think Blu should be in the POE.

My plan is to look into RNP next given the wagon formation and the way I interpreted that Blu vote, but I'll also take other suggestions.


----------



## Novae

mewtini said:


> Mist1422 said:
> 
> 
> 
> did herbe claim a result from last night?
> 
> I don't remember
> 
> 
> 
> claimed he investigated ILS, who died; ILS was one of the town PRs. didn't reveal it for fear of narrowing down possibilities for mafia
Click to expand...

hmm

maybe he should say what subalignment (investigative, protective, killing, blocking, other)


----------



## mewtini

Mist1422 said:


> maybe he should say what subalignment (investigative, protective, killing, blocking, other)


er ... does this help the issue tbh?


----------



## mewtini

actually i guess it does. i am just PR afraid.


----------



## Novae

I mean if herbe dies before he gets to reveal it we lose the info and holding onto it becomes worthless

So I would say probably just out it


----------



## Herbe

kyeugh said:


> Trebek said:
> 
> 
> 
> i think at that point it comes down to “how many levels of wifom is the mafia on”
> 
> 
> 
> disagree tbh, i don’t think it’s really wifom to make an unidentifiable play that actually makes it harder for them to win. it’s just a bad move. i doubt they targeted emmy because they thought
> 
> 
> Trebek said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> kyeugh said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> mewtini said:
> 
> 
> 
> i guess i'm wondering why the mafia would have targeted her either way? it was clear she was going to get healed by at least one person
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> good question tbh, but unless another healer comes forward i think it’s probably the most logical assumption
> 
> btw if rnp does flip red i think there’s almost definitely another healer, your half healerness only makes sense to me if rnp is town and occupies the other half there
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> gonna pose a question in response to this, idk the answer to it:
> if rnp flipping red likely implies a healer, would you consider a healer revealing as a reason to scum lean rnp
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> ayup
Click to expand...




rari_teh said:


> Trebek said:
> 
> 
> 
> if rnp flipping red likely implies a healer, would you consider a healer revealing as a reason to scum lean rnp
> 
> 
> 
> definitely, yes
Click to expand...


Actually, because I think the info will help town now, ILS was a doctor.
(I just finished reading everything and how convenient that y'all were asking about it now)


----------



## Herbe

those quotes were the ones that inspired me


----------



## Novae

PRs:
tofu/VM
mewtini
emmy
RNP
Herbe
ILS
Butterfree
Butterfree's partner

so we have two more

this might almost be too many PR claims I might be convinced to go after RNP


----------



## rari_teh

F for the lost quotes


----------



## Novae

well.


----------



## Bluwiikoon

If my writing style is awkward and or stilted, that's because it's literally just how I type  I'm uhhhh sorry? I also have a really hard time fully committing to any feelings because anxiety and my brain is wired funny and I forget things really easily. I don't know what else I can say


----------



## mewtini

Mist1422 said:


> this might almost be too many PR claims I might be convinced to go after RNP





mewtini said:


> won’t be able to properly post for a bit but i take back my rnp clear tbh, i realized something new lol.


what mist said is what i realized :p


----------



## mewtini

even moreso with ils as the doctor.... did homeboy die protecting me. F


----------



## mewtini

the fucking fact that this is the second game in a row where ils is a doomed doc. at least we didn't mislynch him this time i guess. >:


----------



## rari_teh

Herbe said:


> ILS was a doctor


this is why i didn’t want to out my theory like that smh
ils being a town doctor --> almost impossible that mewtini and rnp are town healing roles as well
which means rnp is lying, which means my tinfoil is down the drain
*rnp* for great justice


----------



## mewtini

galaxy brain play, herbe read through all that and learned that claiming ils as a doctor would get an rnp mislynch-


----------



## rari_teh

mewtini said:


> the fucking fact that this is the second game in a row where ils is a doomed doc. at least we didn't mislynch him this time i guess. >:


we vigged him, so it’s still tragic :(((


----------



## Herbe

yea fuckit i have so little reason to believe in *rnp*'s innocence


----------



## mewtini

Herbe said:


> yea fuckit i have so little reason to believe in *rnp*'s innocence


what is the 'little reason' tho?


----------



## Herbe

mewtini said:


> galaxy brain play, herbe read through all that and learned that claiming ils as a doctor would get an rnp mislynch-


Okay but it makes sense that I wanted to guard the fact that we lost our doctor until the moment it would be more useful for town than for mafia to know


----------



## mewtini

no king. i understand.


----------



## Herbe

mewtini said:


> Herbe said:
> 
> 
> 
> yea fuckit i have so little reason to believe in *rnp*'s innocence
> 
> 
> 
> what is the 'little reason' tho?
Click to expand...

just a turn of phrase, i wasn't thinking about anything in particular


----------



## Tangrowth

rari_teh said:


> View attachment 615
> F for the lost quotes


Aw shit, I knew I should have double checked, lmao. I'll try to make sure not to do that again! XD


----------



## mewtini

it would b nice if i had any grasp of the gamestate rn. i miss my blind confidence from yesterday


----------



## kyeugh

mewtini said:


> galaxy brain play, herbe read through all that and learned that claiming ils as a doctor would get an rnp mislynch-


i know this is a joke but the possibility that trebek’s probing might have been in coordination with herbe’s info just now is a bit 

obviously not sold on that whatsoever and will not be changing my vote but i do kind of think i know where i’ll be looking if he flips green


----------



## mewtini

yeah i don't think herbe looks awesome in that case


----------



## Trebek

mewtini said:


> galaxy brain play, herbe read through all that and learned that claiming ils as a doctor would get an rnp mislynch-


i almost tinfoilhatted about this tbh but thats mostly just bc im worried that im missing something like, devastatingly important in the gamestate rn


----------



## Trebek

kyeugh said:


> mewtini said:
> 
> 
> 
> galaxy brain play, herbe read through all that and learned that claiming ils as a doctor would get an rnp mislynch-
> 
> 
> 
> i know this is a joke but the possibility that trebek’s probing might have been in coordination with herbe’s info just now is a bit
Click to expand...

yeah, i realized that something like that could happen as i was posting it, but i also didnt want to like

not say anything

i guess


----------



## rari_teh

Trebek said:


> kyeugh said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> mewtini said:
> 
> 
> 
> galaxy brain play, herbe read through all that and learned that claiming ils as a doctor would get an rnp mislynch-
> 
> 
> 
> i know this is a joke but the possibility that trebek’s probing might have been in coordination with herbe’s info just now is a bit
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> yeah, i realized that something like that could happen as i was posting it, but i also didnt want to like
> 
> not say anything
> 
> i guess
Click to expand...

ok this is the last thing i’ll say about my tinfoil for toDay: if rnp flips green this will corroborate my hypothesis even further


----------



## RedneckPhoenix

shoutouts to kyeugh being a shitter and lynching me twicd


----------



## Herbe

fair enough but come on


----------



## Herbe

@ppl who are gonna scumread me yet again

like i get it but im just personally frustrated


----------



## rari_teh

Herbe said:


> @ppl who are gonna scumread me yet again
> 
> like i get it but im just personally frustrated


relax my king
90% says rnp will flip red and i will townread you to the end of the game


----------



## RedneckPhoenix

oh no i don't mean "shitty person" i mean like the smash definition of shitter. like someone who's Good at the Game but also vaguely infuriating to play against


----------



## Tofu

rari_teh said:


> Tofu said:
> 
> 
> 
> As would I... I gave my reasons for voting. Rnp annoyed and confused me and I wanted to hear others' opinions.
> 
> 
> 
> oh and by the way wasn’t it you who was staunchily against sciencevoting right until sciencevoting rnp? (apologies if i’m misremembering)
Click to expand...

Yeah I thought of how that response would look, but my definition of science-voting is to prompt a response from the person who is being voted _for_; for me, my vote for rnp was because I would not care at all if he were lynched and I wanted to see if others felt the same; it was not to ask rnp to justify any prior actions. Honestly it was a spite vote because I am grumpy and he doesn't seem to be taking anything seriously. I mean, to each, but why would I even want him on our side if he's trolling our own town members like emmy? The tofu has become annoyed and is leaving the vote there until I find a better reason. Also, other people agreed with me before I even saw there were a few rnp votes, so I wasn't even the first person voting for him... Not sure why I'm even being looked at other than the "I need to justify a scumread on my roster thing" reason.

You quoted a few other of my older posts, and at this point I don't even care to defend them because I was speculating and I'm a newbie at this game. My opinions will change slightly as new information is revealed (uh, isn't that the point of this game?) and it doesn't make any sense at all to quote things I posted multiple days ago and think it's even relevant.

At this point, I'm not going to waste my time defending myself when it seems like people have stopped talking about me in the few hours I haven't checked this thread. But I do want to say that the consequences of me being lynched are going to be awkward for town, but I'll just, leave it at that because I'm not willing to role claim.


----------



## Vipera Magnifica

rari_teh said:


> mewtini said:
> 
> 
> 
> the fucking fact that this is the second game in a row where ils is a doomed doc. at least we didn't mislynch him this time i guess. >:
> 
> 
> 
> we vigged him, so it’s still tragic :(((
Click to expand...




Spoiler


----------



## rari_teh

Tofu said:


> why would I even want him on our side if he's trolling our own town members like emmy?


because he isn’t trolling emmy ffs
if town, he genuinely believed in D2 that she could be either cop or mafia, so he jailed her so that she couldn’t kill or be killed. since there was no mafia kill last night, he deduced that she could be the don and voted for her


Tofu said:


> it doesn't make any sense at all to quote things I posted multiple days ago and think it's even relevant.


sorry, but in no world do posts stop being alignment-indicative with time


----------



## RedneckPhoenix

the only person i would troll is stryke and you fuckers took him from me so now i have to Actually play the game


----------



## Vipera Magnifica

@RedneckPhoenix what cat are you


----------



## RedneckPhoenix

when stryke died i sorta spammed jack with "what is this all about. why am i even here anymore. what's the point."


----------



## rari_teh

Vipera Magnifica said:


> @RedneckPhoenix what cat are you


he said it, he’s gus the theatre cat


----------



## mewtini

RedneckPhoenix said:


> when stryke died i sorta spammed jack with "what is this all about. why am i even here anymore. what's the point."


you're here to vibe with us bro!


----------



## Vipera Magnifica

oh yeah


----------



## RedneckPhoenix

Vipera Magnifica said:


> @RedneckPhoenix what cat are you


i told you already i'm Gus the Theatre Cat


i talk so much abt my theatre days that they can't act or be killed because nothing could hurt them more than listening to me for another minute more


----------



## Keldeo

Essentially my town read on Herbe for ~wagonomics~ runs along similar lines to Butterfree's. I'm assuming that Mr. Ultracool was legitimately an ingroup member of the mafia, which seems like a reasonable assumption at this point - to expand on that, I understand the point about the weird wagon formation, but it just seems sort of excessive for there to be an outgroup in a 4-mafia game, and I would expect the outgroup to be a terrorist because PR but then they haven't done anything that I'd expect the terrorist to do. 

In the mafia/mafia wagons case, no one would have pushed a third option, which seems just like... it's not out of the realm of possibility, but I think that would be some hard commitment to bussing, in a situation where they could have probably pushed someone else and gotten the volatile wagons to swing elsewhere? Especially when town Mewtini asked about it -



mewtini said:


> we're at 25 minutes to EoD
> is there another person who anyone wants to push


This post is #2318, and every single vote after that is on either Ultracool or Herbe, rather than any sort of third option:



JackPK said:


> M Plus 7 votes Mr. Ultracool (#2326)
> Mr. Ultracool votes Herbe (#2343)
> kokorico votes Mr. Ultracool (#2358)
> I liek Squirtles votes Herbe (#2390)
> mewtini votes Mr. Ultracool (#2392)
> Vipera Magnifica votes Herbe (#2393)
> Trebek votes Mr. Ultracool (#2400)


So of course one option is that maybe Herbe and Ultracool's teammates were not around after that post to shift anything, but actually most people were around - the people who weren't posting were Mist, RNP, Emmy, and Butterfree. Obviously Emmy and Butterfree are basically clear, and like I've said Butterfree doesn't make sense along with wolf Herbe to me. That means at least two teammates of hypothetical Herbe / Ultracool mafia, as well as Ultracool himself, were around and didn't make any move to discuss other people or change the wagons, and that... doesn't really make sense to me.

I know there's a lot of stuff that was posted since I started writing this post but I'm having trouble processing all of it and worlds and so I'm going to take a break from the game. But I'll for sure be in later tonight.


----------



## RedneckPhoenix

i made a whole deal abt this. i don't know anything about cats, i couldn't make this up if i tried


----------



## RedneckPhoenix

the image i was given is of a vaguely middle-aged looking cat grabbing at the wall and looking like a dog who just shit on the floor and is guilty about it


----------



## RedneckPhoenix

wearing like a gray plaid bathrobe? or maybe an old suit? looks like he's in a barn?


----------



## rari_teh

RedneckPhoenix said:


> i made a whole deal abt this. i don't know anything about cats, i couldn't make this up if i tried


not sure if i understand where you’re going with this…?


----------



## rari_teh

ah ok nvm


----------



## RedneckPhoenix

just that i keep getting annoying roleblocking roles.


----------



## RedneckPhoenix

someone who knows abt cats can prolly confirm it


----------



## rari_teh

our resident cats connoisseur ils isn’t alive to tell (rip :c), but from what i remember from the movie it checks out
though this isn’t alignment-indicative tbh


----------



## mewtini

Keldeo said:


> town Mewtini


god what a queen  

thanks for the post kel. that makes sense but now i feel bad about having one person less to be afraid of.


Keldeo said:


> I think that would be some hard commitment to bussing, in a situation where they could have probably pushed someone else and gotten the volatile wagons to swing elsewhere?


especially this sentence makes sense i think


----------



## Vipera Magnifica

right yeah that's Ian McKellan cat

doesn't strike me as mafia-aligned but there aren't even 6 evil cats in the movie so Jack probably had to take some liberties with the roles


----------



## RedneckPhoenix

from what i hear of this guy from jack apparently he reminisces on his... jellicle days? the fuck is a jellicle


----------



## Herbe




----------



## Herbe

i HAD to find that picture


----------



## RedneckPhoenix

that's it! that's the fucker


----------



## RedneckPhoenix

is he wearing gloves or do Cat hands just look like that


----------



## rari_teh

RedneckPhoenix said:


> is he wearing gloves or do Cat hands just look like that


it’s just the horrible cgi, believe it or not


----------



## RedneckPhoenix

anyways i'm town and abt to get lynched for not "playing the game right" ama


----------



## Herbe

ughhhhh i might regret this but i think rnp might be telling the truth fr.
*unvote*


----------



## Herbe

jailer could perhaps be mafia (cause i believe him where he explained how Theatre Cat blocks/protects) but shit man, rolecop is more likely than jailer to be mafia. idk i might change my mind on voting but here i am rn


----------



## mewtini

herbe stop ninja'ing me wtf. *i* was about to unvote. now i can't. it's like when you're at a restaurant and someone else orders what you wanted, and you get scared of being unoriginal so you get something else that you don't even want - *unvote*


----------



## mewtini

(the truth is just that i'm reading back rn and i suddenly feel guilty for sitting on rnp. i might come back to the wagon later lol but time will tell)


----------



## Herbe

>:3 i'm dastardly


----------



## rari_teh

guys y’all are ninjaing me >:(
*unvote* as well, and hear me out

it’s pretty much confirmed that RNP is a roleblocker, right
why would the mafia just let their roleblocker be lynched with a cop and an unknown number of healers alive?


----------



## mewtini

mewtini said:


> (the truth is just that i'm reading back rn and i suddenly feel guilty for sitting on rnp. i might come back to the wagon later lol but time will tell)


also i'm probably going to regret saying this but if he's mafia roleblocker/jailer, i think this wagon grew in a very weird way


----------



## mewtini

guys what the fuck


----------



## Herbe

did keldeo wagon just disappear? did we all decide he was cool and town now?


----------



## Herbe

Triple Mindmeld
Triple Mindmeld
Triple Mindmeld


----------



## mewtini

Herbe said:


> did keldeo wagon just disappear? did we all decide he was cool and town now?


no tbh but i couldn't figure out how to build an actual case and i was mostly scared of him to begin with because he was in my PoE and less because of anything beyond him pushing your wagon. still #thinking though


----------



## rari_teh

Herbe said:


> did keldeo wagon just disappear? did we all decide he was cool and town now?


apparently so…? i just decided that i want to let him vibe for a while, at least


----------



## mewtini

rari_teh said:


> why would the mafia just let their roleblocker be lynched with a cop and an unknown number of healers alive?


to be fair i guess it isn't really an unknown number now. ha, ha ...


----------



## Trebek

rari_teh said:


> it’s pretty much confirmed that RNP is a roleblocker, right
> why would the mafia just let their roleblocker be lynched with a cop and an unknown number of healers alive?


would’ve quad mindmelded if i wasn’t afk smh y’all should’ve waited for me *unvote*

honestly now wtf do i do
life is confusing


----------



## Bluwiikoon

I don't know what's happening!


----------



## mewtini

now i'm uncomfy tbh


----------



## Herbe

i could vibe with an *mp7* vote myself


----------



## mewtini

this is a lot. anyway i'mma actually read the thread for the first time in like a day, brb


----------



## Herbe

Direct Action


----------



## RedneckPhoenix

what's a jellicle


----------



## mewtini

Herbe said:


> i could vibe with an *mp7* vote myself


por que


----------



## Bluwiikoon

I should set an alarm for uhhhh around EOD tomorrow so I don't miss stuff  Remember to do something similar if you also want to be around, everybody!


----------



## mewtini

RedneckPhoenix said:


> what's a jellicle


we r the jellicle cats


----------



## rari_teh

mewtini said:


> Herbe said:
> 
> 
> 
> i could vibe with an *mp7* vote myself
> 
> 
> 
> por que
Click to expand...

tambem nao sei


----------



## Herbe

rari_teh said:


> mewtini said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Herbe said:
> 
> 
> 
> i could vibe with an *mp7* vote myself
> 
> 
> 
> por que
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> tambem nao sei
Click to expand...

at first i was looking at a blu/keldeo split, someone suggested mp7 when i said that, it stuck with me (and i said i'd want that over Blu, still,  and we're letting Keldeo vibe, so)


----------



## RedneckPhoenix

soy calvo


----------



## Bluwiikoon

My life is such a mess rn that I legitimately need alarm reminders to be awake at normal human hours


----------



## RedneckPhoenix

not just yr life tbf that's just sorta the state of things innjt


----------



## kyeugh

rari_teh said:


> why would the mafia just let their roleblocker be lynched with a cop and an unknown number of healers alive?


 well they're not, there's still a bunch of time left in the day

i'm a bit alarmed that people seemed on board with this and were tracking with the logic and are now unvoting because he showed up and provided literally no defense other than "well i'm town"


----------



## mewtini

ftr my reasoning was actually the roleblocker thought. i think i might hop back on lol.


----------



## mewtini

but yeah, i keep forgetting how much time there is left still, huff


----------



## rari_teh

so if i didn’t miss anything we’re at

RedneckPhoenix: 5 (Bluwiikoon, Tofu, Vipera Magnifica, kyeugh, IndigoEmmy)
M Plus 7: 2 (Keldeo, Herbe)
IndigoEmmy: 1 (RedneckPhoenix)
Vipera Magnifica: 1 (Mist1422)
[no vote]: 6 (Butterfree, kokorico, mewtini, rari_teh, Tofu, Trebek)


----------



## RedneckPhoenix

kyeugh said:


> i'm a bit alarmed that people seemed on board with this and were tracking with the logic and are now unvoting because he showed up and provided literally no defense other than "well i'm town"


i did literally gave all the info i could short of c/ping my role pm


----------



## kyeugh

RedneckPhoenix said:


> kyeugh said:
> 
> 
> 
> i'm a bit alarmed that people seemed on board with this and were tracking with the logic and are now unvoting because he showed up and provided literally no defense other than "well i'm town"
> 
> 
> 
> i did literally gave all the info i could short of c/ping my role pm
Click to expand...

 you did that earlier today and the wagon developed on you _because_ of that. you haven't provided any information that impacts any of that since you jumped back into the thread a few hours ago, is my point. not that i expected you to since you'd already said all that you probably will, but i am side-eyeing the unvotes (herbe's in particular)


----------



## RedneckPhoenix

no fuck you that's not how this works


i'm talking about the info i gave in the past hour about my literal role pm, i.e. all the shit about gus which allowed yall to find the literal same image used in my pm.


----------



## rari_teh

yeah ftr i didn’t unvote because of rnp’s late “defense”
though i agree you have a point


----------



## kyeugh

i'm not sure why that would affect anyone's read on you to any capacity.  you could literally be mafia and still be gus the theater cat, it doesn't mean anything


----------



## rari_teh

kyeugh said:


> i'm not sure why that would affect anyone's read on you to any capacity.  you could literally be mafia and still be gus the theater cat, it doesn't mean anything


once again, this did not affect my read in the slightest


----------



## rari_teh

and i have a feeling that it didn’t affect mewtini, trebek and herbe’s reads either tbqh


----------



## RedneckPhoenix

ok but i did get people to start talking about me again.

i did /something/ at least


----------



## RedneckPhoenix

let me have this dude


----------



## mewtini

lol. i just realized the roleblocker thing (which i guess is kinda moot)/the huge wagon at the same time as realizing that i have no grasp on earlier discussion today tbh.


----------



## rari_teh

welp, to be fair, yeah, you did


----------



## mewtini

btw, i don't think blu is w/w with rnp, given how he talked about the jailer role


----------



## rari_teh

rari_teh said:


> welp, to be fair, yeah, you did


this refers to rnp rekindling talk about himself


----------



## kyeugh

rari_teh said:


> and i have a feeling that it didn’t affect mewtini, trebek and herbe’s reads either tbqh


 indeed, i'm replying to rnp specifically

at any rate i don't think the unvotes were _because_ of him popping back into the thread, but the point i think is that it's a bit frustrating/confusing that we spent a good chunk of the day shifting through the mech and carving out the logic on this wagon, only for four people to spontaneously unvote in rapid succession for reasons that are pretty opaque to me


----------



## Tangrowth

mewtini said:


> btw, i don't think blu is w/w with rnp, given how he talked about the jailer role


Wait, can you explain this to me?


----------



## mewtini

mewtini said:


> btw, i don't think blu is w/w with rnp, given how he talked about the jailer role


by which i mean


Bluwiikoon said:


> Presumably someone who got Jailed would specifically know they were in jail, according to what Trebek outlined  Whereas Emmy only said her cop check failed


i think he fr didn't understand the jailer role


----------



## kyeugh

hm yeah i think i agree


----------



## Tangrowth

mewtini said:


> mewtini said:
> 
> 
> 
> btw, i don't think blu is w/w with rnp, given how he talked about the jailer role
> 
> 
> 
> by which i mean
> 
> 
> Bluwiikoon said:
> 
> 
> 
> Presumably someone who got Jailed would specifically know they were in jail, according to what Trebek outlined  Whereas Emmy only said her cop check failed
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> i think he fr didn't understand the jailer role
Click to expand...

Hmmm... I like it. It could be faked, but you're right that it reads like genuine lack of knowledge there.


----------



## Trebek

hrrrmmmm i might have just thought of a thing but idk if it’s valid

does someone have the votes from D2 (not the final tally but like the history) i’m having issues finding it on mobile


----------



## Trebek

mewtini said:


> mewtini said:
> 
> 
> 
> btw, i don't think blu is w/w with rnp, given how he talked about the jailer role
> 
> 
> 
> by which i mean
> 
> 
> Bluwiikoon said:
> 
> 
> 
> Presumably someone who got Jailed would specifically know they were in jail, according to what Trebek outlined  Whereas Emmy only said her cop check failed
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> i think he fr didn't understand the jailer role
Click to expand...

i do agree with this take, but does the take change when considering that w!rnp might not be jailer


----------



## kyeugh

JackPK said:


> Active votes bolded. Invalid votes stricken through.
> 
> kyeugh votes kyeugh (#162)
> kyeugh unvotes (#166)
> Keldeo votes Trebek (#509)
> Vipera Magnifica votes Mawile (#516)
> Keldeo unvotes (#589)
> Keldeo votes myuma (#710)
> kyeugh votes Seshas (#760)
> mewtini votes Seshas (#766)
> Vipera Magnifica votes Eifie (#781)
> *Seshas votes Mr. Ultracool (#797)*
> Vipera Magnifica votes abstain (#800)
> IndigoEmmy votes abstain (#801)
> IndigoEmmy votes abstain (#803)
> IndigoEmmy votes Seshas (#805)
> Vipera Magnifica votes IndigoEmmy (#819)
> *RedneckPhoenix votes kyeugh (#833)*
> Keldeo unvotes (#883)
> Vipera Magnifica unvotes (#892)
> mewtini votes Mr. Ultracool (#893)
> Keldeo votes Mr. Ultracool (#905)
> kyeugh votes Stryke (#907)
> rari_teh votes Stryke (#909)
> *Herbe votes Stryke (#910)*
> mewtini votes Vipera Magnifica (#950)
> *myuma votes Stryke (#957)*
> mewtini votes Stryke (#965)
> mewtini votes myuma (#979)
> IndigoEmmy unvotes (#997)
> rari_teh votes myuma (#1032)
> *kyeugh votes myuma (#1040)
> Tofu votes abstain (#1058)
> kokorico votes Stryke (#1059)*
> Keldeo votes myuma (#1072)
> *Bluwiikoon votes myuma (#1111)*
> Keldeo votes Stryke (#1120)
> *rari_teh votes Stryke (#1132)*
> M Plus 7 votes myuma (#1140)
> Keldeo votes myuma (#1141)
> *Trebek votes myuma (#1143)
> Butterfree votes myuma (#1147)
> Keldeo votes Stryke (#1155)
> mewtini votes Stryke (#1162)
> M Plus 7 votes Stryke (#1163)*


----------



## mewtini

Trebek said:


> i do agree with this take, but does the take change when considering that w!rnp might not be jailer


no because blu still should've known about the fakeclaim, yeah?


----------



## rari_teh

M Plus 7 said:


> mewtini said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> mewtini said:
> 
> 
> 
> btw, i don't think blu is w/w with rnp, given how he talked about the jailer role
> 
> 
> 
> by which i mean
> 
> 
> Bluwiikoon said:
> 
> 
> 
> Presumably someone who got Jailed would specifically know they were in jail, according to what Trebek outlined  Whereas Emmy only said her cop check failed
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> i think he fr didn't understand the jailer role
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Hmmm... I like it. It could be faked, but you're right that it reads like genuine lack of knowledge there.
Click to expand...

also if rnp is lying and is just a mafia roleblocker, mafia!blu wouldn’t know that about jailers either


----------



## Tangrowth

Trebek said:


> mewtini said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> mewtini said:
> 
> 
> 
> btw, i don't think blu is w/w with rnp, given how he talked about the jailer role
> 
> 
> 
> by which i mean
> 
> 
> Bluwiikoon said:
> 
> 
> 
> Presumably someone who got Jailed would specifically know they were in jail, according to what Trebek outlined  Whereas Emmy only said her cop check failed
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> i think he fr didn't understand the jailer role
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> i do agree with this take, but does the take change when considering that w!rnp might not be jailer
Click to expand...

Oh that's a good point, why would someone fake claim jailer though? That's a genuine question, not sure about that sort of thing myself.


----------



## Trebek

mewtini said:


> Trebek said:
> 
> 
> 
> i do agree with this take, but does the take change when considering that w!rnp might not be jailer
> 
> 
> 
> no because blu still should've known about the fakeclaim, yeah?
Click to expand...

aight, fair enough ig


----------



## rari_teh

ninja’d by trebek lol


----------



## Trebek

Trebek said:


> mewtini said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Trebek said:
> 
> 
> 
> i do agree with this take, but does the take change when considering that w!rnp might not be jailer
> 
> 
> 
> no because blu still should've known about the fakeclaim, yeah?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> aight, fair enough ig
Click to expand...

still iffy tho but i’m gonna focus on another take atm


----------



## mewtini

do you think they're w/w or do you just not agree with my post


----------



## rari_teh

mewtini said:


> Trebek said:
> 
> 
> 
> i do agree with this take, but does the take change when considering that w!rnp might not be jailer
> 
> 
> 
> no because blu still should've known about the fakeclaim, yeah?
Click to expand...

not necessarily? he could know about the fakeclaim, but not about the mechanics of the fake role


----------



## Trebek

mewtini said:


> do you think they're w/w or do you just not agree with my post


i agree with your post but don’t want to leave stones unturned bc i’m scared of missing something big


----------



## mewtini

i mean i don't think the primary thing of importance now is if they're w/w together necessarily, i just felt like pointing it out because i was reading


----------



## Trebek

kyeugh said:


> JackPK said:
> 
> 
> 
> Active votes bolded. Invalid votes stricken through.
> 
> kyeugh votes kyeugh (#162)
> kyeugh unvotes (#166)
> Keldeo votes Trebek (#509)
> Vipera Magnifica votes Mawile (#516)
> Keldeo unvotes (#589)
> Keldeo votes myuma (#710)
> kyeugh votes Seshas (#760)
> mewtini votes Seshas (#766)
> Vipera Magnifica votes Eifie (#781)
> *Seshas votes Mr. Ultracool (#797)*
> Vipera Magnifica votes abstain (#800)
> IndigoEmmy votes abstain (#801)
> IndigoEmmy votes abstain (#803)
> IndigoEmmy votes Seshas (#805)
> Vipera Magnifica votes IndigoEmmy (#819)
> *RedneckPhoenix votes kyeugh (#833)*
> Keldeo unvotes (#883)
> Vipera Magnifica unvotes (#892)
> mewtini votes Mr. Ultracool (#893)
> Keldeo votes Mr. Ultracool (#905)
> kyeugh votes Stryke (#907)
> rari_teh votes Stryke (#909)
> *Herbe votes Stryke (#910)*
> mewtini votes Vipera Magnifica (#950)
> *myuma votes Stryke (#957)*
> mewtini votes Stryke (#965)
> mewtini votes myuma (#979)
> IndigoEmmy unvotes (#997)
> rari_teh votes myuma (#1032)
> *kyeugh votes myuma (#1040)
> Tofu votes abstain (#1058)
> kokorico votes Stryke (#1059)*
> Keldeo votes myuma (#1072)
> *Bluwiikoon votes myuma (#1111)*
> Keldeo votes Stryke (#1120)
> *rari_teh votes Stryke (#1132)*
> M Plus 7 votes myuma (#1140)
> Keldeo votes myuma (#1141)
> *Trebek votes myuma (#1143)
> Butterfree votes myuma (#1147)
> Keldeo votes Stryke (#1155)
> mewtini votes Stryke (#1162)
> M Plus 7 votes Stryke (#1163)*
Click to expand...

er, sorry i meant the UC/herbe vote (did i get my days wrong lmao)


----------



## rari_teh

kyeugh said:


> JackPK said:
> 
> 
> 
> Active votes bolded. Invalid votes stricken through.
> 
> kyeugh votes kyeugh (#162)
> kyeugh unvotes (#166)
> Keldeo votes Trebek (#509)
> Vipera Magnifica votes Mawile (#516)
> Keldeo unvotes (#589)
> Keldeo votes myuma (#710)
> kyeugh votes Seshas (#760)
> mewtini votes Seshas (#766)
> Vipera Magnifica votes Eifie (#781)
> *Seshas votes Mr. Ultracool (#797)*
> Vipera Magnifica votes abstain (#800)
> IndigoEmmy votes abstain (#801)
> IndigoEmmy votes abstain (#803)
> IndigoEmmy votes Seshas (#805)
> Vipera Magnifica votes IndigoEmmy (#819)
> *RedneckPhoenix votes kyeugh (#833)*
> Keldeo unvotes (#883)
> Vipera Magnifica unvotes (#892)
> mewtini votes Mr. Ultracool (#893)
> Keldeo votes Mr. Ultracool (#905)
> kyeugh votes Stryke (#907)
> rari_teh votes Stryke (#909)
> *Herbe votes Stryke (#910)*
> mewtini votes Vipera Magnifica (#950)
> *myuma votes Stryke (#957)*
> mewtini votes Stryke (#965)
> mewtini votes myuma (#979)
> IndigoEmmy unvotes (#997)
> rari_teh votes myuma (#1032)
> *kyeugh votes myuma (#1040)
> Tofu votes abstain (#1058)
> kokorico votes Stryke (#1059)*
> Keldeo votes myuma (#1072)
> *Bluwiikoon votes myuma (#1111)*
> Keldeo votes Stryke (#1120)
> *rari_teh votes Stryke (#1132)*
> M Plus 7 votes myuma (#1140)
> Keldeo votes myuma (#1141)
> *Trebek votes myuma (#1143)
> Butterfree votes myuma (#1147)
> Keldeo votes Stryke (#1155)
> mewtini votes Stryke (#1162)
> M Plus 7 votes Stryke (#1163)*
Click to expand...

those are from D1 tbh
these are D2:


JackPK said:


> Vipera Magnifica votes kyeugh (#1270)
> kyeugh votes Mr. Ultracool (#1299)
> Vipera Magnifica votes Mr. Ultracool (#1326)
> mewtini votes Mr. Ultracool (#1327)
> mewtini unvotes (#1340)
> mewtini votes kyeugh (#1357)
> mewtini unvotes (#1359)
> RedneckPhoenix votes kyeugh (#1453)
> mewtini votes IndigoEmmy (#1472)
> Trebek votes IndigoEmmy (#1473)
> rari_teh votes IndigoEmmy (#1482)
> Herbe votes IndigoEmmy (#1489)
> Keldeo votes Mr. Ultracool (#1567)
> *Tofu votes Mr. Ultracool (#1604)*
> IndigoEmmy votes Mr. Ultracool (#1612)
> Mr. Ultracool votes IndigoEmmy (#1613)
> Herbe unvotes (#1653)
> Bluwiikoon votes IndigoEmmy (#1717)
> rari_teh votes Mr. Ultracool (#1730)
> kyeugh votes Tofu (#1732)
> *IndigoEmmy votes Tofu (#1734)*
> Trebek votes Mr. Ultracool (#1736)
> Bluwiikoon votes Tofu (#1747)
> mewtini votes Tofu (#1797)
> Trebek votes Tofu (#1876)
> Mr. Ultracool unvotes (#1884)
> *Herbe votes Mr. Ultracool (#1886)
> RedneckPhoenix votes IndigoEmmy (#1926)*
> Trebek votes Mr. Ultracool (#1927)
> kyeugh votes Mr. Ultracool (#1939)
> mewtini votes Mr. Ultracool (#1941)
> I liek Squirtles votes Bluwiikoon (#1996)
> Keldeo votes Herbe (#2056)
> mewtini votes Herbe (#2059)
> Trebek votes Herbe (#2084)
> Bluwiikoon unvotes (#2095)
> Vipera Magnifica votes Herbe (#2104)
> Vipera Magnifica unvotes (#2114)
> Vipera Magnifica votes Herbe (#2118)
> *Butterfree votes Herbe (#2163)*
> rari_teh votes mewtini (#2184)
> *rari_teh votes Mr. Ultracool (#2186)
> Bluwiikoon votes Herbe (#2207)*
> kokorico votes Herbe (#2221)
> *kyeugh votes Herbe (#2277)*
> Keldeo unvotes (#2295)
> *Keldeo votes Herbe (#2296)
> Mist1422 votes Mr. Ultracool (#2302)
> M Plus 7 votes Mr. Ultracool (#2326)*
> I liek Squirtles votes Mr. Ultracool (#2329)
> I liek Squirtles unvotes (#2340)
> *Mr. Ultracool votes Herbe (#2343)
> kokorico votes Mr. Ultracool (#2358)*
> mewtini votes Mr. Ultracool (#2363)
> Vipera Magnifica votes Mr. Ultracool (#2370)
> Trebek votes Mr. Ultracool (#2371)
> mewtini votes Herbe (#2388)
> *I liek Squirtles votes Herbe (#2390)
> mewtini votes Mr. Ultracool (#2392)
> Vipera Magnifica votes Herbe (#2393)*
> Trebek votes Herbe (#2394)
> *Trebek votes Mr. Ultracool (#2400)*


----------



## kyeugh

mfw i mislabel my bookmarks


----------



## Trebek

keldeo, what was your mentality at the end of D2 as far as UC vs Herbe?


----------



## mewtini

kyeugh said:


> mfw i mislabel my bookmarks


mfw you use bookmarks???
i should do that, instead i just take notes and when i lose motivation to keep any sort of "important post" list i just fall apart. that is why i suck so hard today tbh.


----------



## rari_teh

mewtini said:


> kyeugh said:
> 
> 
> 
> mfw i mislabel my bookmarks
> 
> 
> 
> mfw you use bookmarks???
> i should do that, instead i just take notes and when i lose motivation to keep any sort of "important post" list i just fall apart. that is why i suck so hard today tbh.
Click to expand...

me_irl
i just knew the page where the D2 votelist was because i have the chart data at hand, so it’s easy to pinpoint the last page of each day


----------



## Trebek

mewtini said:


> i suck so hard today tbh.


why this false tho


----------



## Trebek

but yeah i thought of a Thing, want to hear from keldeo first tho

lowkey might bring back the keldbus


----------



## mewtini

owo??!


----------



## Trebek

Trebek said:


> but yeah i thought of a Thing, want to hear from keldeo first tho
> 
> lowkey might bring back the keldbus


wait, i thought the wrong way about my own idea

lowkey might kill the nonexistent keldbus


----------



## mewtini

bro don't get me hype like that. i want Strife


----------



## Trebek

Trebek said:


> Trebek said:
> 
> 
> 
> but yeah i thought of a Thing, want to hear from keldeo first tho
> 
> lowkey might bring back the keldbus
> 
> 
> 
> wait, i thought the wrong way about my own idea
> 
> lowkey might kill the nonexistent keldbus
Click to expand...

which is sad bc my hesitant idea might [redacted] herbe again

ok i’m shutting up now, will explain soon ™


----------



## rari_teh

mewtini said:


> owo??!


*notices wagon* *wags tail*


----------



## kyeugh

mewtini said:


> kyeugh said:
> 
> 
> 
> mfw i mislabel my bookmarks
> 
> 
> 
> mfw you use bookmarks???
> i should do that, instead i just take notes and when i lose motivation to keep any sort of "important post" list i just fall apart. that is why i suck so hard today tbh.
Click to expand...

i only have two bookmarks, end of d1 and start of d2, except they're mislabelled and say end of d2 and start of d3, hence me quoting the wrong post


----------



## mewtini

ok, read back. *redneckphoenix*


----------



## mewtini

got confused in the balance between healing roles/rnp


----------



## mewtini

mewtini said:


> got confused in the balance between healing roles/rnp


and everything else really. i was not in a worldbuilding mood today ig.


----------



## mewtini

Trebek said:


> i do agree with this take, but does the take change when considering that w!rnp might not be jailer


also agree that it doesn't hold 100% if rnp is just a roleblocker, my logic was that he/mafia formulating the fakeclaim would have discussed it so blu wouldn't be a total outsider to the concept of jailer. either way he def didn't know what a jailer is, i just don't expect him to be blindsided by that - even a fakeclaim - if they're both working together, but maybe i'm assuming too much intrafactional awareness


----------



## Bluwiikoon

I legitimately don't know a thing, my guys


----------



## Bluwiikoon

I can kinda figure out PoE from context but FoS still has me stumped


----------



## mewtini

PoE = process of elimination, FoS = finger of suspicion!


----------



## Trebek

mewtini said:


> Trebek said:
> 
> 
> 
> i do agree with this take, but does the take change when considering that w!rnp might not be jailer
> 
> 
> 
> also agree that it doesn't hold 100% if rnp is just a roleblocker, my logic was that he/mafia formulating the fakeclaim would have discussed it so blu wouldn't be a total outsider to the concept of jailer. either way he def didn't know what a jailer is, i just don't expect him to be blindsided by that - even a fakeclaim - if they're both working together, but maybe i'm assuming too much intrafactional awareness
Click to expand...

yeah like i agreed with what you were thinking ftr. just wanted to make sure that i still agreed with it in that context

anyways if i try to think too hard about other things im gonna lose my train of thought about [redacted 2 electric boogaloo] so imma wait for keldeo hehe


----------



## rari_teh

KELDEOOO.PCX


----------



## Bluwiikoon

I could always be outgroup!  I don't even know what an outgroup mafia does though except uhhhh snakewhistle and go boom

I feel Concerns about people who are tunnelling onto me but have not otherwise participated much, considering I am town. I'm just clueless about how to play if I'm being honest


----------



## rari_teh

afaik the only person who really tunneled you, like, to the point of voting, was ils tbh


----------



## Bluwiikoon

I must be real confused then because it feels like MP7 was coming down on me pretty hard


----------



## kyeugh

poe = the dragon warrior. skidoosh


----------



## RedneckPhoenix

it's spelled po you fucking fake fan


----------



## RedneckPhoenix

*kyeugh*

unforgivable


----------



## Butterfree

Ugggggh here I was sitting down to read Bluwii's ISO after catching up again and then of course I fall asleep and now I feel like death and really need to just get back to bed

As far as I'd gotten reading it I was starting to feel like 'oh no, he's towny'. All the early posting sounds very pure to me. I guess I will have to get further tomorrow. Why do you guys post so much.

Re: some of the overarching concerns of today's discussions: having an outgroup mafia doesn't seem _impossible_ to me, but it'd be kind of unconventional in the 14-person setup, especially since it's very likely not a mafia doctor (the point of outgroup mafia doctor is to cause healer clashes but here there is no healer clashing) and if there were a terrorist I agree with previous contentions that surely if that's what Ultracool was he'd have exploded before dying.

I think the RNP wagon is interesting for the various mech reasons that have been outlined and I'm kind of tempted to vote it, but I don't want to without finishing at least some of the reading that I've been trying to do all day, ugh.

I still don't understand why you'd say "FoS" instead of just using the verb "suspect".

That's it for now, my brain is leaking out of my ears. Man. I will decide on something tomorrow before EoD.


----------



## rari_teh

Butterfree said:


> I still don't understand why you'd say "FoS" instead of just using the verb "suspect".


I see a difference tbh
FoSing is voicing suspicion, while suspecting is just… well, suspecting, not necessarily sharing it with others


----------



## Trebek

rari_teh said:


> Butterfree said:
> 
> 
> 
> I still don't understand why you'd say "FoS" instead of just using the verb "suspect".
> 
> 
> 
> I see a difference tbh
> FoSing is voicing suspicion, while suspecting is just… well, suspecting, not necessarily sharing it with others
Click to expand...

i just like sounding hip and cool with the forum-goers tbh


----------



## Trebek

man i really wish keldeo.docx was here rn


----------



## rari_teh

me too tbh :c
i want to hear what he thinks of the situation, especially wrt blu and rnp in this order
keldeooooo.odg


----------



## Butterfree

Bluwiikoon said:


> Given that Keldeo is my hypocop clear, I feel like rari's reactions to his pushing felt a bit strong. I would read the whole situation as uhhh
> 
> -Keldeo pushes Trebek to incite discussion
> -rari and mewtini have their initial "wtf" reactions
> -rari (or wolfchat in general) takes this as a chance to frame Keldeo's actions as extreme and/or a bit wolfy
> -Everyone now has  vibes about Keldeo
> 
> Seems like people have backed down from both Trebek and Keldeo now, but may be worth noting for later? Additionally, since I townlean mewtini pretty hard I didn't read too much into her reactions to the situation.  But it seemed fairly reasonable?
> 
> rari has also uhhh reacted similarly to previous sudden pushes in tvt according to other posts, but that could also be a good cover for them, to act a similar way.
> 
> This is all hypothetical however, and if Keldeo turns up red then uhhhh _oops_


@Bluwiikoon, I found this post interesting because it’s reasoning from “Given that Keldeo is my hypocop clear...” and going from there to finding the push on him suspicious. Seeing as we now know (presumably) that you’re not an actual cop, can you tell us if this was actually pure putting yourself in a world where you’ve cleared him or if you had some particular reason to believe he’s town?


----------



## Bluwiikoon

Butterfree said:


> Bluwiikoon said:
> 
> 
> 
> Given that Keldeo is my hypocop clear, I feel like rari's reactions to his pushing felt a bit strong. I would read the whole situation as uhhh
> 
> -Keldeo pushes Trebek to incite discussion
> -rari and mewtini have their initial "wtf" reactions
> -rari (or wolfchat in general) takes this as a chance to frame Keldeo's actions as extreme and/or a bit wolfy
> -Everyone now has  vibes about Keldeo
> 
> Seems like people have backed down from both Trebek and Keldeo now, but may be worth noting for later? Additionally, since I townlean mewtini pretty hard I didn't read too much into her reactions to the situation.  But it seemed fairly reasonable?
> 
> rari has also uhhh reacted similarly to previous sudden pushes in tvt according to other posts, but that could also be a good cover for them, to act a similar way.
> 
> This is all hypothetical however, and if Keldeo turns up red then uhhhh _oops_
> 
> 
> 
> @Bluwiikoon, I found this post interesting because it’s reasoning from “Given that Keldeo is my hypocop clear...” and going from there to finding the push on him suspicious. Seeing as we now know (presumably) that you’re not an actual cop, can you tell us if this was actually pure putting yourself in a world where you’ve cleared him or if you had some particular reason to believe he’s town?
Click to expand...

Yeah, it was pretty much me going all-or-nothing on the cover. ^^ It doesn't work if you don't commit, right? I basically picked Keldeo just because I like him, and I didn't have much else to go on in D1

I also got real zesty in my attempts to Protect Cop in D2 as y'all know  That's basically where my brain was coming from for these interactions


----------



## Keldeo

Ugh really sorry, kept sitting down to read things in this game and then like immediately getting pulled away. I need some sleep before EOD, I'm going to catch up and give quick takes and then do that.


----------



## Keldeo

I'm like... unreasonably upset that I didn't get to do the ISOs I wanted to. Like me @ myself: you have already read all of these words in this internet game why do you want to read them again so much.

MP7's thoughts on Blu are ... meh? decent? I like the critical thought about the possibility that he and I are partners but mostly it seems like, not super deep and I don't really feel strongly moved by it idk. I kind of want to keep my vote here for science and see if they wow me at EOD or something.

Tofu is a player in this mafia game and I still want to know about rari's theory of everything or whatever because I think Tofu's EOD pop-in about Ultracool with defense of Herbe looks fairly good for her.

I 100% believe that RNP is Gus the Theater Cat and probably a jailer, but along the same lines as others, and as I sorta talked around earlier, I don't think that makes him town? Like I think there's a more clear mafia than town motivation / world for his block last night, is the tl;dr.

I pretty much agree with the read that Blu/RNP aren't partners because of Blu's going along with what Trebek was saying about the jailkeeper at first (and I think that makes Trebek/RNP probably not partners either, come to think of it.) I had misgivings about Blu's level of confidence, but I'll take his explanation for it at face value and I think there's a good chance that RNP flips mafia.



Trebek said:


> keldeo, what was your mentality at the end of D2 as far as UC vs Herbe?


I thought Herbe was pretty likely to be mafia mostly because of a narrative I was thinking about wrt his weird coinflip thing with Emmy's claim, and then of course he wasn't around at EOD to change my mind and I wasn't super swayed by any defenses of him / cases on UC. UC was more null / not my first choice target particularly given how often a midday 8-2 wagon is Just Town Here. 

The morning of EOD I was balancing like, getting confirmation biased with people agreeing with me on Herbe vs. panicking about thread flow when the wagon swung a ton toward Herbe near the end. Ultracool's last posts just confused me, I kind of thought the claim was too out there to be a plausible mafia fakeclaim and sort of [kermitflailing.gif] rode with my Herbe vote at the end.



Herbe said:


> did keldeo wagon just disappear? did we all decide he was cool and town now?


That is a decision you won't regret!

I'll be here in like 5 hours or something, I'm pretty fine with the current "wagons"


----------



## Keldeo

I mean, I see what like Rari is saying about consensus-y-ness, and maybe my own reads are too consensus given that I am sort of in the consensus POE, but... I feel like given the Ultracool weirdness this mafia team seems somewhat unconcerned with their people dying, in general? That actually points in the direction of a misclear/deep mafia if RNP’s mafia but I don’t want to think about who that could be jsut this minute


----------



## RedneckPhoenix

i have literally never seen a mafia jailer


----------



## RedneckPhoenix

you're wasting a lynch and getting rid of one of your power roles bc "man suspicious"


----------



## RedneckPhoenix

it's complete bullshit and i'm sick and fucking tired of getting lynched as town because the town doesn't fuckin vibe with me


----------



## Novae

rnp is town by the way i just wanted to let you all know that


----------



## rari_teh

my professor who was supposed to be in class went completely MIA and left us hanging, so it’s mafia time ig


Keldeo said:


> Tofu is a player in this mafia game and I still want to know about rari's theory of everything or whatever because I think Tofu's EOD pop-in about Ultracool with defense of Herbe looks fairly good for her.


fwiw my tinfoil of everything and everyone has fallen apart :c
i was doing a Herbe ISO and noticed a particular thing in a particular post (read: dogwhistle that nobody caught on) that almost completely threw my tinfoil out of the window
still there may be some things to take from it though


Keldeo said:


> Like I think there's a more clear mafia than town motivation / world for his block last night, is the tl;dr.


I digress


Keldeo said:


> I mean, I see what like Rari is saying about consensus-y-ness, and maybe my own reads are too consensus given that I am sort of in the consensus POE, but... I feel like given the Ultracool weirdness this mafia team seems somewhat unconcerned with their people dying, in general? That actually points in the direction of a misclear/deep mafia if RNP’s mafia but I don’t want to think about who that could be jsut this minute


fwiw there’s still some reasonable time until EoD
don’t jinx it lmao


----------



## rari_teh

RedneckPhoenix said:


> i have literally never seen a mafia jailer


fwiw you could as well be Gus and a mafia roleblocker :T


RedneckPhoenix said:


> you're wasting a lynch and getting rid of one of your power roles bc "man suspicious"





RedneckPhoenix said:


> it's complete bullshit and i'm sick and fucking tired of getting lynched as town because the town doesn't fuckin vibe with me


i am most inclined to believe that you are telling the truth, unfortunately
but the only thing that stops me from actively campaigning against your wagon is the fact that two half-doctors plus one full doctor make zero sense in this scenario unless the mafia has something ridiculously OP
in other words, when you flip town i’ll vote herbe (who is the one who claimed that ILS was doctor)


Mist1422 said:


> rnp is town by the way i just wanted to let you all know that


i also think so, but you seem to _know_ so
how do you know so, if you don’t mind saying


----------



## qenya

holy shit, uh, that was an eventful 24 hours to read through

I admit that the mech situation turns out not to have been quiet as clear cut as I thought, but, uh... very baffled by the subsequent direction the thread then took? like afaict it boils down to:

everyone: you're wrong, koko! there was probably another role involved
RNP: hello, I am the other role involved
everyone: seems implausible *lynches*

given that:
- RNP's claim explains what happened last Night
- nobody has presented evidence to contradict him
- the role RNP claimed is rarely if ever scum
does balance of probability not suggest that maybe he's just telling the truth?

tl;dr: I know this is a little pot-calling-the-kettle-black but I really think y'all are overthinking this

(1/?)


----------



## RedneckPhoenix

mist was being sarcastic and saying "wowie rnp is claiming town again? shocker"


----------



## rari_teh

rari_teh said:


> but the only thing that stops me from actively campaigning against your wagon is the fact that two half-doctors plus one full doctor make zero sense in this scenario unless the mafia has something ridiculously OP
> in other words, when you flip town i’ll vote herbe (who is the one who claimed that ILS was doctor)


to clarify why i’m not voting herbe instead of you: as per herbe’s post history and [redacted] i am most inclined to believe that he is town, while what i have towards you is just a strong townlean
if you flip green, though, i’ll still feel vindicated in a way


----------



## RedneckPhoenix

bc obviously we can't both be town


----------



## rari_teh

RedneckPhoenix said:


> bc obviously we can't both be town


you can, but i would be side-eyeing jack for putting three healers in a fourteen-people game


----------



## rari_teh

just to be sure, i don’t remember where my vote is at and i frankly don’t want to be in the wrong side of history
bc i’m increasingly worried that herbe is just wolfing really well again
*unvote* if i didn’t unvote already


----------



## rari_teh

i am sure that at least one person is going to read over all of this and think that i’m w/w with rnp, and if he flips red i’ll be the biggest clown in the universe and scumread by many with a reasonable motive, but
like
what he’s saying makes sense. the logic checks out. ISO him if you haven’t
it is just an extremely against-the-grain read that, if true, is duping literally everybody here but rnp himself
it’s just
argh


----------



## Trebek

Keldeo said:


> Trebek said:
> 
> 
> 
> keldeo, what was your mentality at the end of D2 as far as UC vs Herbe?
> 
> 
> 
> I thought Herbe was pretty likely to be mafia mostly because of a narrative I was thinking about wrt his weird coinflip thing with Emmy's claim, and then of course he wasn't around at EOD to change my mind and I wasn't super swayed by any defenses of him / cases on UC. UC was more null / not my first choice target particularly given how often a midday 8-2 wagon is Just Town Here.
> 
> The morning of EOD I was balancing like, getting confirmation biased with people agreeing with me on Herbe vs. panicking about thread flow when the wagon swung a ton toward Herbe near the end. Ultracool's last posts just confused me, I kind of thought the claim was too out there to be a plausible mafia fakeclaim and sort of [kermitflailing.gif] rode with my Herbe vote at the end.
Click to expand...

frankly, i vibe enough with this to disregard whatever weird tinfoil thinking i was doing last night

which is lowkey depressing bc now i have to try thinking about other things

and yeah i’m also like
deeply concerned
about mafia having a big foothold in towncore being the reason why everything is just sorta vibing atm


----------



## kyeugh

kokorico said:


> given that:
> - RNP's claim explains what happened last Night
> - nobody has presented evidence to contradict him
> - the role RNP claimed is rarely if ever scum
> does balance of probability not suggest that maybe he's just telling the truth?


i don’t think anyone thinks he totally made everything up, it’s just that he can be telling the truth and still be mafia, and it makes some sense for that to be the case.


----------



## Trebek

Trebek said:


> Keldeo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Trebek said:
> 
> 
> 
> keldeo, what was your mentality at the end of D2 as far as UC vs Herbe?
> 
> 
> 
> I thought Herbe was pretty likely to be mafia mostly because of a narrative I was thinking about wrt his weird coinflip thing with Emmy's claim, and then of course he wasn't around at EOD to change my mind and I wasn't super swayed by any defenses of him / cases on UC. UC was more null / not my first choice target particularly given how often a midday 8-2 wagon is Just Town Here.
> 
> The morning of EOD I was balancing like, getting confirmation biased with people agreeing with me on Herbe vs. panicking about thread flow when the wagon swung a ton toward Herbe near the end. Ultracool's last posts just confused me, I kind of thought the claim was too out there to be a plausible mafia fakeclaim and sort of [kermitflailing.gif] rode with my Herbe vote at the end.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> frankly, i vibe enough with this to disregard whatever weird tinfoil thinking i was doing last night
Click to expand...

ok actually not fully disregarding: i am pretty sure keldeo and herbe are w/w, unless UC had a supremely impactful w!PR


----------



## Trebek

are NOT oops hehe


----------



## qenya

regarding the quantity of town doctors: I agree! doctor + jailkeeper + whatever mewtini is seems kind of ridiculous in what was originally a 14-person setup with 4 mafia (_unless_, and I know this is a stretch but I'm not quite ready to give it up yet, Jack didn't expect the jailkeeper and/or mewtini to want to operate every night).

(aside: considering that last game I apparently managed to successfully dupe everyone, including the rest of the mafia, into thinking I was one of no fewer than FIVE town doctors, I'm equal parts appreciative and exasperated that someone seems to be trying almost the exact same thing again)

but all this means is that one of {herbe, RNP, mewtini} is probably lying. mewt has a green copcheck that would require a series of highly implausible coincidences to explain away, and I've explained why I don't think it's RNP... which leaves herbe.

I was going to summarise the case against w!herbe here, but rari just handily did it for me, thank you rari:


rari_teh said:


> as per herbe’s post history and [redacted] i am most inclined to believe that he is town


now, let's say for the sake of argument that he is indeed a rolecop, did check mewtini n0, and signalled it to her in a way that proved that's what happened. for the record I still don't like this "hey mewtini can just say people are town for Reasons and we all believe her! :D" thing, but I accept I'm in the minority there, and anyway the bit with herbe doesn't rely on that

consider:
- we clearly don't know everything the mafia do about their reasoning for targets (cf. Seshas)
- while mewt is being cagey about the exact details of her role (for good reason!) she's definitely not actually a full doctor or anything like that
- mewt, who is basically the town leader, has proceeded to put herbe in her towncore (going so far as to clear someone else based solely on his testimony) and everyone else is ~going with the flow~

so: _why on earth_ are people taking it as virtually certain that w!Herbe would have killed mewtini above all else, when there's no guarantee she has a particularly strong role, and her survival has provided him with such an excellent return on investment so far? in fact I could see this being the mafia's plan from the very outset: their rolecop uses up a check to convince ultra-popular!mewtini that he's town, and then he's pretty much set for the rest of the game!

for this reason, I think *herbe* is the most sensible lynch at the moment and will require considerable convincing to change my mind.

tl;dr: my w!herbe theory that I earlier referred as "tinfoil" has been elevated to headcanon in light of new evidence.

(2/?)


----------



## rari_teh

Trebek said:


> ok actually not fully disregarding: i am pretty sure keldeo and herbe are [not] w/w, unless UC had a supremely impactful w!PR


considering how relatively easy he was bussed i am inclined to believe this is not the case


----------



## rari_teh

*easily


----------



## kyeugh

kokorico said:


> so: _why on earth_ are people taking it as virtually certain that w!Herbe would have killed mewtini above all else, when there's no guarantee she has a particularly strong role, and her survival has provided him with such an excellent return on investment so far?


 the most likely alternative case is that the mafia targeted emmy, which makes way, way less sense.


----------



## Trebek

rari_teh said:


> Trebek said:
> 
> 
> 
> ok actually not fully disregarding: i am pretty sure keldeo and herbe are [not] w/w, unless UC had a supremely impactful w!PR
> 
> 
> 
> considering how relatively easy he was bussed i am inclined to believe this is not the case
Click to expand...

coolio B)


----------



## rari_teh

kokorico said:


> (aside: considering that last game I apparently managed to successfully dupe everyone, including the rest of the mafia, into thinking I was one of no fewer than FIVE town doctors, I'm equal parts appreciative and exasperated that someone seems to be trying almost the exact same thing again)


tinfoil: the town has actually one full doctor and two half-doctors because that’s Jack’s way of trolling us into thinking that somebody may be lying
(to be clear: i am joking)


kokorico said:


> so: _why on earth_ are people taking it as virtually certain that w!Herbe would have killed mewtini above all else, when there's no guarantee she has a particularly strong role, and her survival has provided him with such an excellent return on investment so far? in fact I could see this being the mafia's plan from the very outset: their rolecop uses up a check to convince ultra-popular!mewtini that he's town, and then he's pretty much set for the rest of the game!


i am vibing, but i’m also iffy about voting herbe because i have difficulty believing in herbe/ultracool being w/w and no solid third wagon ever arising


----------



## Trebek

kokorico said:


> - the role RNP claimed is rarely if ever scum


what concerns me is that the role rnp claimed doesn’t necessarily line up with the powers that we have seen him demonstrate? like, we know he has roleblocking power but we currently have no way to justify if rnp can also protect, seeing as mewt also presumably targeted emmy last night (yes, this relies on trust in mewts capabilities, but that is a choice i am making and not everyone has to)

still iffy, and can also see the herbe arguments, but at the end of the day idk. most of what i was trying to brainstorm last night was revolving around the mafias place in the chaotic EoD2 but i don’t want to infolynch herbe to figure out more about his wagon

not saying i’ll never lynch him, just not purely as an infolynch


----------



## rari_teh

rari_teh said:


> i am vibing, but i’m also iffy about voting herbe because i have difficulty believing in herbe/ultracool being w/w and no solid third wagon ever arising


i mean, they _could_ be, but that would cement the theory that the mafia has zero idea of what they’re doing


----------



## kyeugh

i think if rnp flips green we can be pretty damn sure about herbe, but at the moment i don’t think there’s MORE reason to resolve him than rnp. i will agree that herbe isn’t being scrutinized closely enough and that mewtini is giving him too much of a free pass.


----------



## qenya

kyeugh said:


> i don’t think anyone thinks he totally made everything up, it’s just that he can be telling the truth and still be mafia, and it makes some sense for that to be the case.


with the greatest of respect, I believe this was addressed in the third bullet point you quoted



kyeugh said:


> kokorico said:
> 
> 
> 
> so: _why on earth_ are people taking it as virtually certain that w!Herbe would have killed mewtini above all else, when there's no guarantee she has a particularly strong role, and her survival has provided him with such an excellent return on investment so far?
> 
> 
> 
> the most likely alternative case is that the mafia targeted emmy, which makes way, way less sense.
Click to expand...

but why? if RNP were the wolf, wouldn't it have made vastly more sense for him to block mewtini, who had _said_ she was going to try to heal emmy? that would free up emmy for the mafia's nightkill

and yes, in this scenario there would probably be another town doctor - but mewtini had instructed them to heal her instead of emmy

(this next bit was going to be catchup post 3/4 but while I'm replying to other stuff from you I might as well add it in:)



kyeugh said:


> poe = the dragon warrior. skidoosh


nonsense! poe = miniboss in the forest temple. smh


----------



## rari_teh

in an ideal world we’d lynch someone else and have herbe inspect rnp because no way they’re w/w, but that’s nigh impossible given how much time we have


----------



## rari_teh

kokorico said:


> and yes, in this scenario there would probably be another town doctor - but mewtini had instructed them to heal her instead of emmy


in this scenario it’s ils tbh
he died for our sins


----------



## kyeugh

kokorico said:


> but why? if RNP were the wolf, wouldn't it have made vastly more sense for him to block mewtini, who had _said_ she was going to try to heal emmy? that would free up emmy for the mafia's nightkill


good question, but the fact is that no matter what they almost certainly targeted someone who got healed (and likely who’d they have reason to believe might be healed that night). why they’d do so either way is pretty unclear. ultimately the fact that the kill didn’t go through probably means they made a suboptimal move either way, so it’s a big question mark no matter what.


----------



## kyeugh

kokorico said:


> with the greatest of respect, I believe this was addressed in the third bullet point you quoted


i don’t think it is, if he’s scum he’s quite possibly roleblocker which is often scum.


----------



## Trebek

kokorico said:


> and yes, in this scenario there would probably be another town doctor - but mewtini had instructed them to heal her instead of emmy


i agree that in this case the case the objective best decision is roleblock mewt and kill emmy, but consider what happens if even a sliver of doubt creeps in: maybe mewt is RB immune? what if the healer is actually coinflipping!
if i were maf, the moment i doubted anything about the situation, i would find that strat too
risky, bc i don’t want to run the risk of letting emmy get another check. at that point, i would consider it safer to keep emmy on RB lockdown until i figure out a way to ensure i can kill her, if that makes sense?


----------



## Trebek

[QUOTE="Trebek, post: 684852, member: 23106]case the case
[/QUOTE]
smh my head


----------



## Trebek

wow rip that quote please everyone avert your
gaze


----------



## kyeugh

Trebek said:


> the objective best decision


tbh i think it’s crucial to consider that the mafia is not really making these and i don’t think it’s good to base our speculation on assuming they are because if they were this wouldn’t be happening rn at all


----------



## mewtini

h-hi guys


----------



## Trebek

kyeugh said:


> Trebek said:
> 
> 
> 
> the objective best decision
> 
> 
> 
> tbh i think it’s crucial to consider that the mafia is not really making these and i don’t think it’s good to base our speculation on assuming they are because if they were this wouldn’t be happening rn at all
Click to expand...

yeah, my point is that i don’t think the objective best decision is what happened :^)


----------



## Trebek

mewtini said:


> h-hi guys


omg hi



i must wait 8
seconds


----------



## rari_teh

Trebek said:


> maybe mewt is RB immune?


wut


----------



## Trebek

rari_teh said:


> Trebek said:
> 
> 
> 
> maybe mewt is RB immune?
> 
> 
> 
> wut
Click to expand...

ftr i’m not saying i believe that, my point is that any possible thing that could disrupt
the mafias plan would ultimately, in my
opinion, lead them to RB emmy
instead of kill


----------



## kyeugh

i kind of don’t get why the objective best move would be to kill emmy anyway? blocking her pretty much completely eliminates her utility since she doesn’t have any thread presence otherwise, meanwhile shooting mew takes out a healer and a town leader


----------



## Trebek

kyeugh said:


> i kind of don’t get why the objective best move would be to kill emmy anyway? blocking her pretty much completely eliminates her utility since she doesn’t have any thread presence otherwise, meanwhile shooting mew takes out a healer and a town leader


objective in the universe where mafia is sure that mewt is getting extra protection from someone else


----------



## mewtini

i guess this goes back to "do they assume two healers" if rnp is scum?


----------



## kyeugh

i guess we can see in hindsight that block mewt -> kill emmy ensures a kill while the inverse doesn’t, but clearly the mafia BELIEVED whatever they did was going to result in a kill or else they wouldn’t have done it
easiest assumption to me is that they simply assumed mewt was unprotected and went for her, blocking emmy to eliminate her utility for the day


----------



## Trebek

exactly


----------



## rari_teh

kyeugh said:


> i guess we can see in hindsight that block mewt -> kill emmy ensures a kill while the inverse doesn’t, but clearly the mafia BELIEVED whatever they did was going to result in a kill or else they wouldn’t have done it
> easiest assumption to me is that they simply assumed mewt was unprotected and went for her, blocking emmy to eliminate her utility for the day


i still think it’s possible that they hit a bulletproof or an alien
also maybe [william of occam raised from the dead to ensure that this sentence is redacted]


----------



## kyeugh

kyeugh said:


> i guess we can see in hindsight that block mewt -> kill emmy ensures a kill while the inverse doesn’t, but clearly the mafia BELIEVED whatever they did was going to result in a kill or else they wouldn’t have done it
> easiest assumption to me is that they simply assumed mewt was unprotected and went for her, blocking emmy to eliminate her utility for the day


going from here, rnp’s scumlean on emmy has simply been to provide some cover for blocking her. he did not jail her with the intention of protecting her, because he suspected her before and after the night, and his first assumption when she survived and there was no nightkill wasn’t that he’d protected her but rather that he’d stopped the kill from firing at all

i’ll feel very silly if he flips green but to me this is the most logical explanation of what happened last night


----------



## kyeugh

rari_teh said:


> i still think it’s possible that they hit a bulletproof or an alien


i don’t tbh. if it was bulletproof i think they would say so. MAYBE alien but i kind of doubt it


----------



## mewtini

rari_teh said:


> i still think it’s possible that they hit a bulletproof or an alien
> also maybe [william of occam raised from the dead to ensure that this sentence is redacted]


yeah i was going to say that it's still an option for this to have happened but is it safer/more sensical to assume that? idk


----------



## rari_teh

kyeugh said:


> kyeugh said:
> 
> 
> 
> i guess we can see in hindsight that block mewt -> kill emmy ensures a kill while the inverse doesn’t, but clearly the mafia BELIEVED whatever they did was going to result in a kill or else they wouldn’t have done it
> easiest assumption to me is that they simply assumed mewt was unprotected and went for her, blocking emmy to eliminate her utility for the day
> 
> 
> 
> going from here, rnp’s scumlean on emmy has simply been to provide some cover for blocking her. he did not jail her with the intention of protecting her, because he suspected her before and after the night, and his first assumption when she survived and there was no nightkill wasn’t that he’d protected her but rather that he’d stopped the kill from firing at all
> 
> i’ll feel very silly if he flips green but to me this is the most logical explanation of what happened last night
Click to expand...

i’ll admit that this makes sense tbh


----------



## Trebek

sigh

at first i was gonna be like lmao didn’t rnp suspect emmy D2 why would he protect her

but nope. that makes perfect sense from a jailer PoV


----------



## mewtini

by the way i'll be the first to admit that i gave herbe too much of a free pass but hey! i got ultracool out of it! but idk why we'd resolve him before rnp still?


----------



## mewtini

if rnp is villa and emmy is the don ... something something clown town fr. but i'm not super incentivized to assume that either, aside from being panoramic about this. ha


----------



## qenya

answers to specific questions people asked me a while ago (don't worry, I'll come back to more recent posts in a moment)



mewtini said:


> kokorico said:
> 
> 
> 
> Mist, M+7 and Trebek wouldn't look great either
> 
> 
> 
> why trebek tbh. he moved and with justification
> mist and m+7 are in my suspectland so i'm vibing with that though
Click to expand...

yes, but then he moved _back_ again, _without_ justification

(he may have explained that later, I don't recall - either way the conversation has kind of moved on from this lol)



Keldeo said:


> I am wondering, though, @kokorico during last EOD did it occur to you to try to push forward a third wagon, if you thought neither was a great option? Who would you have pushed if viability was not a consideration?


no, my mindset at that point was basically "neither seems like an ideal lynch but I don't have any better ideas, what's the least bad option?" I fully accept that I was wrong about that!


----------



## Trebek

the scenario where emmy is somehow don is extra loltown bc if that’s the case where was counterclaim

bc i highly doubt there’s no cop in this game


----------



## rari_teh

kokorico said:


> mewtini said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> kokorico said:
> 
> 
> 
> Mist, M+7 and Trebek wouldn't look great either
> 
> 
> 
> why trebek tbh. he moved and with justification
> mist and m+7 are in my suspectland so i'm vibing with that though
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> yes, but then he moved _back_ again, _without_ justification
> 
> (he may have explained that later, I don't recall - either way the conversation has kind of moved on from this lol)
Click to expand...

he was the casting vote that sent ultracool to the cellar
later he explained that he moved votes because [redacted] cleared herbe
this is anything but suspicious tbh


----------



## rari_teh

Trebek said:


> the scenario where emmy is somehow don is extra loltown bc if that’s the case where was counterclaim
> 
> bc i highly doubt there’s no cop in this game


in that scenario i’d say dead
also in that scenario i’d say emmy should bet in the powerball


----------



## mewtini

rari_teh said:


> later he explained that he moved votes because [redacted] cleared herbe


he actually explained it exactly as it was happening
looking at vote history seems to show that trebek moved between the two a decent amount, i'm not fully sure what koko is referring to


----------



## qenya

rari_teh said:


> kokorico said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> mewtini said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> kokorico said:
> 
> 
> 
> Mist, M+7 and Trebek wouldn't look great either
> 
> 
> 
> why trebek tbh. he moved and with justification
> mist and m+7 are in my suspectland so i'm vibing with that though
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> yes, but then he moved _back_ again, _without_ justification
> 
> (he may have explained that later, I don't recall - either way the conversation has kind of moved on from this lol)
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> he was the casting vote that sent ultracool to the cellar
> later he explained that he moved votes because [redacted] cleared herbe
> this is anything but suspicious tbh
Click to expand...

the context here is that we were speculating about ultracool being outgroup mafia


----------



## mewtini

but then he wouldn't care if herbe got lynched


----------



## mewtini

if we assume v/v, maybe i'm missing the point hehe


----------



## rari_teh

kokorico said:


> rari_teh said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> kokorico said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> mewtini said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> kokorico said:
> 
> 
> 
> Mist, M+7 and Trebek wouldn't look great either
> 
> 
> 
> why trebek tbh. he moved and with justification
> mist and m+7 are in my suspectland so i'm vibing with that though
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> yes, but then he moved _back_ again, _without_ justification
> 
> (he may have explained that later, I don't recall - either way the conversation has kind of moved on from this lol)
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> he was the casting vote that sent ultracool to the cellar
> later he explained that he moved votes because [redacted] cleared herbe
> this is anything but suspicious tbh
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> the context here is that we were speculating about ultracool being outgroup mafia
Click to expand...

I think that speculation has been out of the window for quite some time tbh


----------



## rari_teh

mewtini said:


> but then he wouldn't care if herbe got lynched


I _could_ see m!trebek pretending to care and doing that to gain cred with you and your close followers, but i definitely certainly do not believe that to be the case


----------



## mewtini

it's technically true but still would kind of ignore the rest of his solviness since d1


----------



## Trebek

rari_teh said:


> you and your close followers


cult of mewt tbhtbh


----------



## rari_teh

also outgroup mafia in a 14-player role madness with 2/7 mafia is very weird and farfetched


----------



## rari_teh

Trebek said:


> rari_teh said:
> 
> 
> 
> you and your close followers
> 
> 
> 
> cult of mewt tbhtbh
Click to expand...

the OG sinister minister. praise mewtini


----------



## Novae

rari_teh said:


> how do you know so, if you don’t mind saying


i don't, but hyperprojecting confidence is an important skill on ToS


----------



## Trebek

honestly alternate universe where somehow mewt and co is scum and the moment this game ends mewt furiously dabs on me for the next 8 months whenever mafia gets discussed


----------



## mewtini

i WISH i were scum


----------



## Trebek

Mist1422 said:


> rari_teh said:
> 
> 
> 
> how do you know so, if you don’t mind saying
> 
> 
> 
> i don't, but hyperprojecting confidence is an important skill on ToS
Click to expand...

quite true, and something i’ve been trying to dial back on here bc it can totally come across the other way


----------



## qenya

mewtini said:


> but then he wouldn't care if herbe got lynched


...huh?

ok, I'm not sure this is the best use of our time, but to lay it all out again

- there was speculation that ultracool might have been outgroup mafia
- I reasoned if that were the case, we should have been looking at people who parked on ultracool early and remained voting for him at eod
- based on the list of votes, people this applied to were tofu, mist, m+7, trebek
- this whole thing was mostly just spitballing and nobody afaik has used it for anything



rari_teh said:


> I think that speculation has been out of the window for quite some time tbh


yes, hence: "either way the conversation has kind of moved on from this lol"

honestly in hindsight I should have just ignored the question. smh


----------



## Novae

the real alternate universe is where butterfree/VM/tofu are all scum and we're just looking the wrong way


----------



## mewtini

oh, sorry, i was saying that if herbe is villager and ultracool wasn't known to ingroup mafia, then trebek would have had no reason to 'figure out' the two wagons as they'd seem v/v - which disagrees with the erratic and fairly-reasoned switching that he did


----------



## Trebek

for the record, i did do some mulling over what koko is talking about regarding EoD2, and my conclusion was that, if UC is in group and herbe is town, we should look at people who parked on UC but weren’t around at the end of the day, bc in the case where the wagons were w/v, mafia should have likely realized that only one vote needed to flop to herbe to lynch him

this is all speculation that’s not useful rn bc it would depend on herbes flip but thought i’d bring it up


----------



## Novae

hmm

I should probably reread EoD2 under the assumption that UC isn't group and see what that gets


----------



## Trebek

Trebek said:


> for the record, i did do some mulling over what koko is talking about regarding EoD2, and my conclusion was that, if UC is in group and herbe is town, we should look at people who parked on UC but weren’t around at the end of the day, bc in the case where the wagons were w/v, mafia should have likely realized that only one vote needed to flop to herbe to lynch him
> 
> this is all speculation that’s not useful rn bc it would depend on herbes flip but thought i’d bring it up


(or look at people who flipped herbe late, but again don’t want to think too hard about this without having a lock on herbe)


----------



## Trebek

i mean idk about other people but i sorta doubt any outgroup exists

that’s just how i be vibin


----------



## mewtini

if an outgroup does exist it wasn't ultracool (by terrorist theory)


----------



## Novae

terrorist theory?

I'm at a point where I don't think there's a world that makes sense where UC isn't outgroup unless it's exactly like, RNP/Blu/[tofu/VM]/Keldeo/kyeugh and that really does not make sense


----------



## mewtini

in the original 14-setup there were 4 mafia
so only one could have been outgroup, and since everyone had a PR at that point (and by site meta) that outgroup role would most likely be terrorist/bomber. if that were ultracool, seeing as he was around at EoD, why wouldn't he have blown someone up before getting lynched


----------



## rari_teh

what mewt said
also if there is a terrorist alive right now, why didn’t they explode emmy?


----------



## qenya

mewtini said:


> in the original 14-setup there were 4 mafia
> so only one could have been outgroup, and since everyone had a PR at that point (and by site meta) that outgroup role would most likely be terrorist/bomber. if that were ultracool, seeing as he was around at EoD, why wouldn't he have blown someone up before getting lynched


because he didn't have any scumreads and didn't want to risk accidentally killing one of his scumteam?

I agree it's not the #mechanicallycorrect thing to do, but recall that he's relatively inexperienced


----------



## qenya

kokorico said:


> he's relatively inexperienced


at tcod-style/forum mafia, that is


----------



## rari_teh

kokorico said:


> mewtini said:
> 
> 
> 
> in the original 14-setup there were 4 mafia
> so only one could have been outgroup, and since everyone had a PR at that point (and by site meta) that outgroup role would most likely be terrorist/bomber. if that were ultracool, seeing as he was around at EoD, why wouldn't he have blown someone up before getting lynched
> 
> 
> 
> because he didn't have any scumreads and didn't want to risk accidentally killing one of his scumteam?
> 
> I agree it's not the #mechanicallycorrect thing to do, but recall that he's relatively inexperienced
Click to expand...

bruh
emmy and herbe were both claimed cops


----------



## qenya

rari_teh said:


> bruh
> emmy and herbe were both claimed cops


shit, sorry, I forgot that was the same Day

ignore me please


----------



## kyeugh

i feel like if we didn’t play tvt immediately before this we’d be having like 95% less outgroup discussion


----------



## rari_teh

kyeugh said:


> i feel like if we didn’t play tvt immediately before this we’d be having like 95% less outgroup discussion


if one could pin a post to the thread, i would pin this one tbh


----------



## Tangrowth

Hey all! Things are a thing. I'm here until EOD though!

I'll have to see if I can find the updated tally.


----------



## RedneckPhoenix

fuck i'm a moron

*kyeugh*

it's incredibly obvious to me now. kyeugh and emmy are /both/ scum


----------



## RedneckPhoenix

emmy asks kyeugh why kill didnt go thru, kyeugh says you were roleblocked, kyeugh throws suspicion on me


----------



## rari_teh

i have Reasons to believe that kyeugh is town
i think you’re going too deep into the tinfoil there pal


----------



## RedneckPhoenix

kyeugh has been the one making the most "science votes" on non-mafia people which develop into a science wagon and then a science lynch and nothing ever leads back to her


----------



## RedneckPhoenix

rari_teh said:


> i have Reasons to believe that kyeugh is town
> i think you’re going too deep into the tinfoil there pal


it tastes so good


----------



## RedneckPhoenix

seriously though if i'm about to be lynched by someone who's ignoring literally all the evidence i provide and making other people disbelieve me, i might as well FoS her


----------



## mewtini

science voting isn't auto-scummy though.
it's tinfoil possible that emmy is the don and you caught her which would be loltown but i'm not sure i see that implicating skylar specifically (for anything other than saying "maybe we shouldn't townread rnp for jailer alone" and worldbuilding with ... all of us)


----------



## mewtini

RedneckPhoenix said:


> seriously though if i'm about to be lynched by someone who's ignoring literally all the evidence i provide and making other people disbelieve me, i might as well FoS her


ok. what do you think happened?


----------



## kyeugh

i’m not ignoring any evidence, the wagon on you is based on the information you provided


----------



## RedneckPhoenix

i jail stryke n0 for funsies, haha

n1 i jail kyeugh, she figures out there's a town roleblocker of some sort

d2 i hard claim not-cop, implying i'm a power role other than cop

n2 i jail emmy, skylar immediately knows what happened, tells emmy to pretend to have copchecked her but failed

d3 she tells emmy to double down on the cop claim to build emmy's credibility and coppiness, because there's room for 2 cops in a 14 player game so a seperate cop claim wouldn't be that odd.


i sincerely believe this.


----------



## RedneckPhoenix

either don't lynch me today or lynch me, and when i flip green, lynch one of those two tomorrow


----------



## RedneckPhoenix

or vigkill one of em. i'm not picky when it comes to killing mafia


----------



## kyeugh

btw if rnp flips town it’s on sight for herbe


----------



## rari_teh

RedneckPhoenix said:


> d2 i hard claim not-cop, implying i'm a power role other than cop


uuuuh how so? the implied statement i see is that you’re town and you want to be sure that nobody is FoSing possible-cop because they think you’re the real cop who’s afraid to claim

otherwise, while I 100% see where you’re going, I have Reasons to believe that kyeugh is not mafia


----------



## RedneckPhoenix

when rnp flips town i'm declaring open season on kyemmy


----------



## RedneckPhoenix

rari_teh said:


> RedneckPhoenix said:
> 
> 
> 
> d2 i hard claim not-cop, implying i'm a power role other than cop
> 
> 
> 
> uuuuh how so? the implied statement i see is that you’re town and you want to be sure that nobody is FoSing possible-cop because they think you’re the real cop who’s afraid to claim
> 
> otherwise, while I 100% see where you’re going, I have Reasons to believe that kyeugh is not mafia
Click to expand...

yes but what are the reasons

i wanna help the got damn town but when you're dodging like this i cant


----------



## rari_teh

RedneckPhoenix said:


> rari_teh said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RedneckPhoenix said:
> 
> 
> 
> d2 i hard claim not-cop, implying i'm a power role other than cop
> 
> 
> 
> uuuuh how so? the implied statement i see is that you’re town and you want to be sure that nobody is FoSing possible-cop because they think you’re the real cop who’s afraid to claim
> 
> otherwise, while I 100% see where you’re going, I have Reasons to believe that kyeugh is not mafia
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> yes but what are the reasons
> 
> i wanna help the got damn town but when you're dodging like this i cant
Click to expand...

if i say, i may put people in danger and i do not like it
if this wagon grows i’ll probably spill the beans, but you have to trust me. i see the same dots you’re seeing and i see that when connected they produce a nifty picture of a sirfetch’d with a gun in the wing, but i am saying that i have solid reasons to trust kyeugh at this point


----------



## JackPK

Reminder: The day phase will end in *2 hours*.

*Active votes*
Mist1422 votes Vipera Magnifica (#2779)
Keldeo votes M Plus 7 (#2899)
Vipera Magnifica votes RedneckPhoenix (#2931)
Tofu votes RedneckPhoenix (#2934)
Bluwiikoon votes RedneckPhoenix (#2946)
kyeugh votes RedneckPhoenix (#3075)
IndigoEmmy votes RedneckPhoenix (#3099)
Herbe votes M Plus 7 (#3236)
mewtini votes RedneckPhoenix (#3297)
kokorico votes Herbe (#3339)
RedneckPhoenix votes kyeugh (#3411)



Spoiler: Full vote history



Active votes bolded. Invalid votes stricken through.

Herbe votes Keldeo (#2539)
mewtini votes Keldeo (#2541)
*Mist1422 votes Vipera Magnifica (#2779)*
rari_teh votes Vipera Magnifica (#2785)
*Keldeo votes M Plus 7 (#2899)*
RedneckPhoenix votes IndigoEmmy (#2911)
*Vipera Magnifica votes RedneckPhoenix (#2931)*
kyeugh votes RedneckPhoenix (#2932)
*Tofu votes RedneckPhoenix (#2934)*
mewtini votes RedneckPhoenix (#2936)
mewtini votes kyeugh (#2939)
Trebek votes RedneckPhoenix (#2940)
mewtini votes RedneckPhoenix (#2941)
*Bluwiikoon votes RedneckPhoenix (#2946)*
Trebek votes Santa (#2948)
rari_teh votes Keldeo (#2951)
Trebek votes RedneckPhoenix (#2965)
kyeugh unvotes (#2983)
*kyeugh votes RedneckPhoenix (#3075)
IndigoEmmy votes RedneckPhoenix (#3099)*
rari_teh unvotes (#3141)
rari_teh votes RedneckPhoenix (#3172)
Herbe votes RedneckPhoenix (#3175)
Herbe unvotes (#3220)
mewtini unvotes (#3222)
rari_teh unvotes (#3225)
Trebek unvotes (#3233)
*Herbe votes M Plus 7 (#3236)
mewtini votes RedneckPhoenix (#3297)*
RedneckPhoenix votes kyeugh (#3311)
rari_teh unvotes (#3333)
*kokorico votes Herbe (#3339)
RedneckPhoenix votes kyeugh (#3411)*


----------



## Tangrowth

*ISO of RNP*

This is a strange one because RNP's ISO is so short, and what is there was a real struggle to try to get anything alignment-indicative out of, especially since he strikes me as a very... unique player, in a good way but it also makes assessments inevitably difficult. I also wanted to look into the circumstances surrounding the claim and wagon formation to try and provide necessary context.

The conclusion I am making is that RNP has a great sense of humor.



Spoiler






RedneckPhoenix said:


> wow! i never knew voting at random was such a high level tactic!
> 
> what the fuck did seshas do to get a wagon








Spoiler






RedneckPhoenix said:


> looking thru the thread again i cannot see anything that would make seshas seem suspicious. why






These two read like potential TMI to me.



Spoiler






RedneckPhoenix said:


> sorry i'm late
> 
> i jailed emmy, so emmy is either mafia or was targetted by mafia, if the vigkill went thru








Spoiler






RedneckPhoenix said:


> i jailed stryke first bc it was funny and then i jailed kyeugh outta spite.








Spoiler






RedneckPhoenix said:


> blocks and protects








Spoiler






RedneckPhoenix said:


> 's why i hypocleared kyeugh but then i thought "well, she might be a different mafia role" and un-cleared








Spoiler






RedneckPhoenix said:


> *emmy*
> 
> i'm not smart and emmy's been quiet so i'm just sticking to the one hunch i have






I... have been trying to parse out the exact series of these posts with respect to the claim. The logic is... hard to follow for that of a villager.

The more recent behavior is also sort of a *shrug* I don't really know what's going on? I buy the theory that it is more likely a flailing wolf trying to make things stick than the other way around, but other opinions are welcome. I wish I could have come to some sort of behavioral conclusion that helped more.


----------



## Tangrowth

That updated vote tally is a godsend.

I need to go back and see why koko is voting Herbe, I don't recall that.


----------



## kyeugh

M Plus 7 said:


> That updated vote tally is a godsend.
> 
> I need to go back and see why koko is voting Herbe, I don't recall that.


good starting place: 




__





						Cats (2019) Mafia
					

I mean, I see what like Rari is saying about consensus-y-ness, and maybe my own reads are too consensus given that I am sort of in the consensus POE, but... I feel like given the Ultracool weirdness this mafia team seems somewhat unconcerned with their people dying, in general? That actually...




					forums.dragonflycave.com


----------



## Trebek

god idk what’s happening anymore but i also don’t want to get to EoD without voting so i guess i just have to Think ™ more


----------



## Tangrowth

kyeugh said:


> M Plus 7 said:
> 
> 
> 
> That updated vote tally is a godsend.
> 
> I need to go back and see why koko is voting Herbe, I don't recall that.
> 
> 
> 
> good starting place:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Cats (2019) Mafia
> 
> 
> I mean, I see what like Rari is saying about consensus-y-ness, and maybe my own reads are too consensus given that I am sort of in the consensus POE, but... I feel like given the Ultracool weirdness this mafia team seems somewhat unconcerned with their people dying, in general? That actually...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> forums.dragonflycave.com
Click to expand...

Much appreciated!


----------



## rari_teh

M Plus 7 said:


> These two read like potential TMI to me.


I don’t see it

I made a post some time ago that tentatively explains in less knotty terms what rnp is saying, i’ll see if i can find it so that i can quote it to you


----------



## RedneckPhoenix

kyeugh is controlling the thread again shoutouts


----------



## qenya

M Plus 7 said:


> That updated vote tally is a godsend.
> 
> I need to go back and see why koko is voting Herbe, I don't recall that.


tl;dr: role distribution doesn't make sense if both RNP and Herbe are telling the truth, and imo wolf!Herbe is more likely than wolf!RNP

evidently I'm not going to convince the rest of town, but everyone seems to agree that if RNP flips green tonight Herbe ought to be the next lynch or vigkill, so I'm cool with that ig


----------



## rari_teh

@M Plus 7:


rari_teh said:


> if town, he genuinely believed in D2 that she could be either cop or mafia, so he jailed her so that she couldn’t kill or be killed. since there was no mafia kill last night, he deduced that she could be the don and voted for her


----------



## Keldeo

Hey hey, gonna eat something and then be here!

MP7 can you walk through the town RNP and mafia RNP mindsets/logic that you see there for me?



Trebek said:


> god idk what’s happening anymore but i also don’t want to get to EoD without voting so i guess i just have to Think ™ more


same lol the x hours of sleep didn’t really help


----------



## RedneckPhoenix

cant wait for AC mafia when i'm a roleblocker and get lynched by a kyeugh wagon again


----------



## kyeugh

kokorico said:


> M Plus 7 said:
> 
> 
> 
> That updated vote tally is a godsend.
> 
> I need to go back and see why koko is voting Herbe, I don't recall that.
> 
> 
> 
> tl;dr: role distribution doesn't make sense if both RNP and Herbe are telling the truth, and imo wolf!Herbe is more likely than wolf!RNP
> 
> evidently I'm not going to convince the rest of town, but everyone seems to agree that if RNP flips green tonight Herbe ought to be the next lynch or vigkill, so I'm cool with that ig
Click to expand...

big agree on the second part


----------



## rari_teh

kokorico said:


> tl;dr: role distribution doesn't make sense if both RNP and Herbe are telling the truth, and imo wolf!Herbe is more likely than wolf!RNP


i have a conjecture that would allow both rnp and herbe to be town, but it is a bit farfetched tbh


Spoiler: confbiasy theory



maybe town!herbe is so convinced that town!RNP is mafia that he decided to gamble on whatever towncred he has by affirming that ils was doctor when in fact he was not


----------



## Tangrowth

rari_teh said:


> M Plus 7 said:
> 
> 
> 
> These two read like potential TMI to me.
> 
> 
> 
> I don’t see it
> 
> I made a post some time ago that tentatively explains in less knotty terms what rnp is saying, i’ll see if i can find it so that i can quote it to you
Click to expand...

I definitely would love to hear that.


----------



## rari_teh

M Plus 7 said:


> rari_teh said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> M Plus 7 said:
> 
> 
> 
> These two read like potential TMI to me.
> 
> 
> 
> I don’t see it
> 
> I made a post some time ago that tentatively explains in less knotty terms what rnp is saying, i’ll see if i can find it so that i can quote it to you
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I definitely would love to hear that.
Click to expand...

i quoted it and pinged you lol


----------



## Tangrowth

rari_teh said:


> @M Plus 7:
> 
> 
> rari_teh said:
> 
> 
> 
> if town, he genuinely believed in D2 that she could be either cop or mafia, so he jailed her so that she couldn’t kill or be killed. since there was no mafia kill last night, he deduced that she could be the don and voted for her
Click to expand...

I think that's plausible, but Occam's Razor implies otherwise?


----------



## kyeugh

RedneckPhoenix said:


> cant wait for AC mafia when i'm a roleblocker and get lynched by a kyeugh wagon again


 you know i wasn't the first vote on you right?  vm voted for you and several others (including me) voted for you pretty quickly after that.  we've gotten here because many people had a discussion about the events of last night, together.  i get that you're frustrated but your tone is kind of irking me here, i don't really like being treated like i'm some kind of dick that's just serially dunking on for no reason other than to be cruel.  i am not singlehandedly pushing you into your grave here.



rari_teh said:


> maybe town!herbe is so convinced that town!RNP is mafia that he decided to gamble on whatever towncred he has by affirming that ils was doctor when in fact he was not


 very doubtful, herbe is not all that convinced rnp is scum at all afaict


----------



## Tangrowth

kokorico said:


> M Plus 7 said:
> 
> 
> 
> That updated vote tally is a godsend.
> 
> I need to go back and see why koko is voting Herbe, I don't recall that.
> 
> 
> 
> tl;dr: role distribution doesn't make sense if both RNP and Herbe are telling the truth, and imo wolf!Herbe is more likely than wolf!RNP
> 
> evidently I'm not going to convince the rest of town, but everyone seems to agree that if RNP flips green tonight Herbe ought to be the next lynch or vigkill, so I'm cool with that ig
Click to expand...

Your perspective is valuable nonetheless. I'll see what I think of it.


----------



## rari_teh

M Plus 7 said:


> rari_teh said:
> 
> 
> 
> @M Plus 7:
> 
> 
> rari_teh said:
> 
> 
> 
> if town, he genuinely believed in D2 that she could be either cop or mafia, so he jailed her so that she couldn’t kill or be killed. since there was no mafia kill last night, he deduced that she could be the don and voted for her
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I think that's plausible, but Occam's Razor implies otherwise?
Click to expand...

dude, no offense to rnp but, this is rnp
there is no occam’s razor


----------



## Tangrowth

rari_teh said:


> M Plus 7 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rari_teh said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> M Plus 7 said:
> 
> 
> 
> These two read like potential TMI to me.
> 
> 
> 
> I don’t see it
> 
> I made a post some time ago that tentatively explains in less knotty terms what rnp is saying, i’ll see if i can find it so that i can quote it to you
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I definitely would love to hear that.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> i quoted it and pinged you lol
Click to expand...

Haha, yeah, I got it, my bad -- also trying to read back at the same time.

What did you think of the TMI though? I couldn't get anything else with respect to behavior there, but that reads very much to me like RNP knows Seshas is town. Do you have a different interpretation?


----------



## Tofu

I am at work and will be until the end of the day so not sure I'll be able to like, stay updated on what is happening.

I'm not sure whether I want to withdraw my rnp vote or not but I'll try to pop in at some point and decide. idk what to think anymore and I don't find anyone else's posts particularly illuminating to me.


----------



## Tangrowth

rari_teh said:


> M Plus 7 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rari_teh said:
> 
> 
> 
> @M Plus 7:
> 
> 
> rari_teh said:
> 
> 
> 
> if town, he genuinely believed in D2 that she could be either cop or mafia, so he jailed her so that she couldn’t kill or be killed. since there was no mafia kill last night, he deduced that she could be the don and voted for her
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I think that's plausible, but Occam's Razor implies otherwise?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> dude, no offense to rnp but, this is rnp
> there is no occam’s razor
Click to expand...

Haha, I can see why you'd say that. I'll consider it.


----------



## rari_teh

kyeugh said:


> very doubtful, herbe is not all that convinced rnp is scum at all afaict


eh, you’re right, forgot about that


M Plus 7 said:


> What did you think of the TMI though? I couldn't get anything else with respect to behavior there, but that reads very much to me like RNP knows Seshas is town. Do you have a different interpretation?


the same interpretation as i had D1 tbh
that people were voting seshas based solely on vague gut feels that don’t really say anything and rnp got annoyed by it


----------



## kyeugh

M Plus 7 said:


> What did you think of the TMI though? I couldn't get anything else with respect to behavior there, but that reads very much to me like RNP knows Seshas is town. Do you have a different interpretation?


 i know you're not asking me but i didn't really read it this way personally.  i think if he flips red then we can look back on it and i guess say that's what it was, but it seemed kind of innocuous to me, just a strong reaction to the concept of a poorly-substantiated (i.e. virtually random) wagon rather than to the person it happened to be on


----------



## Tangrowth

rari_teh said:


> kyeugh said:
> 
> 
> 
> very doubtful, herbe is not all that convinced rnp is scum at all afaict
> 
> 
> 
> eh, you’re right, forgot about that
> 
> 
> M Plus 7 said:
> 
> 
> 
> What did you think of the TMI though? I couldn't get anything else with respect to behavior there, but that reads very much to me like RNP knows Seshas is town. Do you have a different interpretation?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> the same interpretation as i had D1 tbh
> that people were voting seshas based solely on vague gut feels that don’t really say anything and rnp got annoyed by it
Click to expand...

Right, but wouldn't a consideration of the gamestate preclude such a reaction? If that makes sense.


----------



## rari_teh

M Plus 7 said:


> rari_teh said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> kyeugh said:
> 
> 
> 
> very doubtful, herbe is not all that convinced rnp is scum at all afaict
> 
> 
> 
> eh, you’re right, forgot about that
> 
> 
> M Plus 7 said:
> 
> 
> 
> What did you think of the TMI though? I couldn't get anything else with respect to behavior there, but that reads very much to me like RNP knows Seshas is town. Do you have a different interpretation?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> the same interpretation as i had D1 tbh
> that people were voting seshas based solely on vague gut feels that don’t really say anything and rnp got annoyed by it
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Right, but wouldn't a consideration of the gamestate preclude such a reaction? If that makes sense.
Click to expand...

if rnp was being that solvy i would be scumreading him right now


----------



## Tangrowth

kyeugh said:


> M Plus 7 said:
> 
> 
> 
> What did you think of the TMI though? I couldn't get anything else with respect to behavior there, but that reads very much to me like RNP knows Seshas is town. Do you have a different interpretation?
> 
> 
> 
> i know you're not asking me but i didn't really read it this way personally.  i think if he flips red then we can look back on it and i guess say that's what it was, but it seemed kind of innocuous to me, just a strong reaction to the concept of a poorly-substantiated (i.e. virtually random) wagon rather than to the person it happened to be on
Click to expand...

Input appreciated always regardless of who I'm asking, so I'm glad you said so too!

Huh, maybe I feel differently about it because I wasn't involved in the heat of the moment, so to speak. I'll take what you're both saying into consideration for sure.


----------



## Tangrowth

rari_teh said:


> M Plus 7 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rari_teh said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> kyeugh said:
> 
> 
> 
> very doubtful, herbe is not all that convinced rnp is scum at all afaict
> 
> 
> 
> eh, you’re right, forgot about that
> 
> 
> M Plus 7 said:
> 
> 
> 
> What did you think of the TMI though? I couldn't get anything else with respect to behavior there, but that reads very much to me like RNP knows Seshas is town. Do you have a different interpretation?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> the same interpretation as i had D1 tbh
> that people were voting seshas based solely on vague gut feels that don’t really say anything and rnp got annoyed by it
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Right, but wouldn't a consideration of the gamestate preclude such a reaction? If that makes sense.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> if rnp was being that solvy i would be scumreading him right now
Click to expand...

So you're saying he seems more villagery when wolf and vice versa? That's good to know.


----------



## rari_teh

M Plus 7 said:


> rari_teh said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> M Plus 7 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rari_teh said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> kyeugh said:
> 
> 
> 
> very doubtful, herbe is not all that convinced rnp is scum at all afaict
> 
> 
> 
> eh, you’re right, forgot about that
> 
> 
> M Plus 7 said:
> 
> 
> 
> What did you think of the TMI though? I couldn't get anything else with respect to behavior there, but that reads very much to me like RNP knows Seshas is town. Do you have a different interpretation?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> the same interpretation as i had D1 tbh
> that people were voting seshas based solely on vague gut feels that don’t really say anything and rnp got annoyed by it
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Right, but wouldn't a consideration of the gamestate preclude such a reaction? If that makes sense.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> if rnp was being that solvy i would be scumreading him right now
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> So you're saying he seems more villagery when wolf and vice versa? That's good to know.
Click to expand...

precisely ~


----------



## qenya

M Plus 7 said:


> So you're saying he seems more villagery when wolf and vice versa? That's good to know.


last game the town literally lynched him in preference to someone with a red copcheck


----------



## Tangrowth

Seems like a difficult player to read regardless. I've definitely played with players like this before, but it's always a Fun Time (because I'm a masochist who actually likes to try figuring all of this out behaviorally).


----------



## Tofu

I'm gonna *unvote* for now brb


----------



## kyeugh

M Plus 7 said:


> kyeugh said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> M Plus 7 said:
> 
> 
> 
> What did you think of the TMI though? I couldn't get anything else with respect to behavior there, but that reads very much to me like RNP knows Seshas is town. Do you have a different interpretation?
> 
> 
> 
> i know you're not asking me but i didn't really read it this way personally.  i think if he flips red then we can look back on it and i guess say that's what it was, but it seemed kind of innocuous to me, just a strong reaction to the concept of a poorly-substantiated (i.e. virtually random) wagon rather than to the person it happened to be on
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Input appreciated always regardless of who I'm asking, so I'm glad you said so too!
> 
> Huh, maybe I feel differently about it because I wasn't involved in the heat of the moment, so to speak. I'll take what you're both saying into consideration for sure.
Click to expand...

 something important to consider i think is that for a long time, conventional tcod meta was basically to abstain d1 barring extenuating circumstances, so i think every game there's a bit of resistance to the idea of lynching d1 based on little gut feels or whatever.


----------



## Tangrowth

kokorico said:


> M Plus 7 said:
> 
> 
> 
> So you're saying he seems more villagery when wolf and vice versa? That's good to know.
> 
> 
> 
> last game the town literally lynched him in preference to someone with a red copcheck
Click to expand...

LMAO, I'm assuming that's reductive, but even if so, that's something.


----------



## Trebek

just to make sure i’m not missing anything (trying to weigh pros and cons for each situation before i vote)

the consensus seems to be that rnp flipping green implies we should vigkill herbe, but do we have any consensus on what happens if rnp flips red? is w/w or w/v more likely between rnp and herbe


----------



## Tangrowth

kyeugh said:


> M Plus 7 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> kyeugh said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> M Plus 7 said:
> 
> 
> 
> What did you think of the TMI though? I couldn't get anything else with respect to behavior there, but that reads very much to me like RNP knows Seshas is town. Do you have a different interpretation?
> 
> 
> 
> i know you're not asking me but i didn't really read it this way personally.  i think if he flips red then we can look back on it and i guess say that's what it was, but it seemed kind of innocuous to me, just a strong reaction to the concept of a poorly-substantiated (i.e. virtually random) wagon rather than to the person it happened to be on
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Input appreciated always regardless of who I'm asking, so I'm glad you said so too!
> 
> Huh, maybe I feel differently about it because I wasn't involved in the heat of the moment, so to speak. I'll take what you're both saying into consideration for sure.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> something important to consider i think is that for a long time, conventional tcod meta was basically to abstain d1 barring extenuating circumstances, so i think every game there's a bit of resistance to the idea of lynching d1 based on little gut feels or whatever.
Click to expand...

Oh, yeah, that is a point for sure. Thank you. That's such a foreign concept to me now, haha.


----------



## Tangrowth

Trebek said:


> just to make sure i’m not missing anything (trying to weigh pros and cons for each situation before i vote)
> 
> the consensus seems to be that rnp flipping green implies we should vigkill herbe, but do we have any consensus on what happens if rnp flips red? is w/w or w/v more likely between rnp and herbe


Has anyone looked at that specifically? If not, I can do so quickly here.


----------



## Trebek

basically, i’m worried that me voting off of gut feels or personality analysis is going to go horribly wrong, so i want to try to make as unbiased of a priority queue as possible as far as who to vote for if that makes sense


----------



## rari_teh

M Plus 7 said:


> kokorico said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> M Plus 7 said:
> 
> 
> 
> So you're saying he seems more villagery when wolf and vice versa? That's good to know.
> 
> 
> 
> last game the town literally lynched him in preference to someone with a red copcheck
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> LMAO, I'm assuming that's reductive, but even if so, that's something.
Click to expand...

believe me when i say that it’s not reductive at all :c


----------



## Tangrowth

rari_teh said:


> M Plus 7 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> kokorico said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> M Plus 7 said:
> 
> 
> 
> So you're saying he seems more villagery when wolf and vice versa? That's good to know.
> 
> 
> 
> last game the town literally lynched him in preference to someone with a red copcheck
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> LMAO, I'm assuming that's reductive, but even if so, that's something.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> believe me when i say that it’s not reductive at all :c
Click to expand...

Sounds like an incredible story, haha.


----------



## rari_teh

M Plus 7 said:


> Trebek said:
> 
> 
> 
> just to make sure i’m not missing anything (trying to weigh pros and cons for each situation before i vote)
> 
> the consensus seems to be that rnp flipping green implies we should vigkill herbe, but do we have any consensus on what happens if rnp flips red? is w/w or w/v more likely between rnp and herbe
> 
> 
> 
> Has anyone looked at that specifically? If not, I can do so quickly here.
Click to expand...

i would say w/v, though it’s better to ISO tbh


----------



## mewtini

Trebek said:


> the consensus seems to be that rnp flipping green implies we should vigkill herbe, but do we have any consensus on what happens if rnp flips red? is w/w or w/v more likely between rnp and herbe


i’m not caught up but i’ve been thinking that koko will probably not look great if that comes to pass


----------



## rari_teh

mewtini said:


> Trebek said:
> 
> 
> 
> the consensus seems to be that rnp flipping green implies we should vigkill herbe, but do we have any consensus on what happens if rnp flips red? is w/w or w/v more likely between rnp and herbe
> 
> 
> 
> i’m not caught up but i’ve been thinking that koko will probably not look great if that comes to pass
Click to expand...

this tbh
i am also probably not going to look great tbqh


----------



## Tangrowth

Spoiler






kokorico said:


> regarding the quantity of town doctors: I agree! doctor + jailkeeper + whatever mewtini is seems kind of ridiculous in what was originally a 14-person setup with 4 mafia (_unless_, and I know this is a stretch but I'm not quite ready to give it up yet, Jack didn't expect the jailkeeper and/or mewtini to want to operate every night).
> 
> (aside: considering that last game I apparently managed to successfully dupe everyone, including the rest of the mafia, into thinking I was one of no fewer than FIVE town doctors, I'm equal parts appreciative and exasperated that someone seems to be trying almost the exact same thing again)
> 
> but all this means is that one of {herbe, RNP, mewtini} is probably lying. mewt has a green copcheck that would require a series of highly implausible coincidences to explain away, and I've explained why I don't think it's RNP... which leaves herbe.
> 
> I was going to summarise the case against w!herbe here, but rari just handily did it for me, thank you rari:
> 
> 
> rari_teh said:
> 
> 
> 
> as per herbe’s post history and [redacted] i am most inclined to believe that he is town
> 
> 
> 
> now, let's say for the sake of argument that he is indeed a rolecop, did check mewtini n0, and signalled it to her in a way that proved that's what happened. for the record I still don't like this "hey mewtini can just say people are town for Reasons and we all believe her! :D" thing, but I accept I'm in the minority there, and anyway the bit with herbe doesn't rely on that
> 
> consider:
> - we clearly don't know everything the mafia do about their reasoning for targets (cf. Seshas)
> - while mewt is being cagey about the exact details of her role (for good reason!) she's definitely not actually a full doctor or anything like that
> - mewt, who is basically the town leader, has proceeded to put herbe in her towncore (going so far as to clear someone else based solely on his testimony) and everyone else is ~going with the flow~
> 
> so: _why on earth_ are people taking it as virtually certain that w!Herbe would have killed mewtini above all else, when there's no guarantee she has a particularly strong role, and her survival has provided him with such an excellent return on investment so far? in fact I could see this being the mafia's plan from the very outset: their rolecop uses up a check to convince ultra-popular!mewtini that he's town, and then he's pretty much set for the rest of the game!
> 
> for this reason, I think *herbe* is the most sensible lynch at the moment and will require considerable convincing to change my mind.
> 
> tl;dr: my w!herbe theory that I earlier referred as "tinfoil" has been elevated to headcanon in light of new evidence.
> 
> (2/?)
Click to expand...





I like the thinking here, even if I'm not sure how I feel about the likelihood of it. And fwiw, I've seen enough wolf jailkeepers or similar roles in my anecdotal experience, even if town it is the more natural utility -- but I also don't play full role madness often, so I'm not sure how valuable my perspective is there.


----------



## Keldeo

Okay I'm here until EOD! Need to read up more than the most recent few pages and then I'll get in real time



rari_teh said:


> believe me when i say that it’s not reductive at all :c


smh smh "the town" did not kill him, there was one (1) town on his wagon


----------



## mewtini

won't be caught up for a bit, but rq -


kokorico said:


> in fact I could see this being the mafia's plan from the very outset: their rolecop uses up a check to convince ultra-popular!mewtini that he's town, and then he's pretty much set for the rest of the game!


does this ... make sense? the check on me was n0 haha, i was def not ultra-popular yet :p unless they just saw the mafia-vs-not-mafia roster and was like "it's her! she is Special" (thanks if that's the case guys)



Keldeo said:


> smh smh "the town" did not kill him, there was one (1) town on his wagon


oh my god don't remind me


----------



## rari_teh

Keldeo said:


> rari_teh said:
> 
> 
> 
> believe me when i say that it’s not reductive at all :c
> 
> 
> 
> smh smh "the town" did not kill him, there was one (1) town on his wagon
Click to expand...

i did not remember that :c
tbh good for town


----------



## Trebek

so basically, this is what i’m thinking rn as far as Do I Vote RNP

if rnp flips red, then maybe koko looks bad? maybe rari? at the end of the day (heh) we’ve found a maf and we can figure out the rest later

if rnp flips green, then herbe likely gets vig killed or lynched. if herbe flips red then we end up with a 1 for 1 trade which is ok i guess? and if herbe is green then LolTown ™ 

i’m leaning more towards a rnp vote than away, but am going to hold off until i can further convince myself that a) rnp is def maf or b) v/v rnp/herbe is def not a possibility


----------



## Tangrowth

Keldeo said:


> Okay I'm here until EOD! Need to read up more than the most recent few pages and then I'll get in real time
> 
> 
> 
> rari_teh said:
> 
> 
> 
> believe me when i say that it’s not reductive at all :c
> 
> 
> 
> smh smh "the town" did not kill him, there was one (1) town on his wagon
Click to expand...

LOL.


----------



## mewtini

Trebek said:


> until i can further convince myself that a) rnp is def maf or b) v/v rnp/herbe is def not a possibility


when are you going to get either a or b tbh


----------



## Tangrowth

Also, hi Keldeo!


----------



## mewtini

mewtini said:


> Trebek said:
> 
> 
> 
> until i can further convince myself that a) rnp is def maf or b) v/v rnp/herbe is def not a possibility
> 
> 
> 
> when are you going to get either a or b tbh
Click to expand...

this isn't me pressuring, just, idk what could happen to make either conclusive before the flips


----------



## Trebek

mewtini said:


> Trebek said:
> 
> 
> 
> until i can further convince myself that a) rnp is def maf or b) v/v rnp/herbe is def not a possibility
> 
> 
> 
> when are you going to get either a or b tbh
Click to expand...

rereading, further thinking, idkidk


----------



## Butterfree

Hi guys I just got out of work and I see there are like six new pages but I’d like to share with you a quote from the MafiaScum wiki that I checked because I really really could have sworn I had definitely heard of mafia jailkeepers before:



> Mafia Jailkeepers are not unheard of, but overkill for many games as they can generally get by with either a Doctor or a Roleblocker. (Note, however, that it's fairly common for Mafia to _claim_ to be a Jailkeeper when they're actually a Roleblocker; this is hard to disprove without a Role Cop and makes the role sound more townsided.)


----------



## Trebek

mewtini said:


> mewtini said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Trebek said:
> 
> 
> 
> until i can further convince myself that a) rnp is def maf or b) v/v rnp/herbe is def not a possibility
> 
> 
> 
> when are you going to get either a or b tbh
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> this isn't me pressuring, just, idk what could happen to make either conclusive before the flips
Click to expand...

it was less of a “this needs to happen in thread between now and eod” and more “what do i need to reanalyze/how can i justify my line of thinking even if i make an oops”


----------



## mewtini

what bfree quoted is exactly what made me think about RB!rnp claiming jailer


----------



## qenya

Keldeo said:


> smh smh "the town" did not kill him, there was one (1) town on his wagon


in fairness, the mafia didn't know that. most of us were outgroup and kind of. accidentally coordinated?

speaking for myself, I was about 50/50 rnp was mafia and was trying to bus him


----------



## Trebek

Butterfree said:


> (Note, however, that it's fairly common for Mafia to _claim_ to be a Jailkeeper when they're actually a Roleblocker; this is hard to disprove without a Role Cop and makes the role sound more townsided.)
Click to expand...

just gonna re-emphasize this rq


----------



## Tangrowth

@Trebek 

I searched Herbe's ISO for all mentions of RNP, and I only received two results, both from today:



Spoiler






Herbe said:


> yea fuckit i have so little reason to believe in *rnp*'s innocence






In isolation this could be a bus.



Spoiler






Herbe said:


> ughhhhh i might regret this but i think rnp might be telling the truth fr.
> *unvote*






But then I don't know what to make of this then?

I would say they're w/w compatible. Likely? Not sure about that.


----------



## kyeugh

if rnp/herbe are v/v that will be hilarious i think

also if rnp is scum that will also be hilarious because it means the fake mafia team i've been pretending to call out was actually mafia


----------



## qenya

mewtini said:


> won't be caught up for a bit, but rq -
> 
> 
> kokorico said:
> 
> 
> 
> in fact I could see this being the mafia's plan from the very outset: their rolecop uses up a check to convince ultra-popular!mewtini that he's town, and then he's pretty much set for the rest of the game!
> 
> 
> 
> does this ... make sense? the check on me was n0 haha, i was def not ultra-popular yet :p unless they just saw the mafia-vs-not-mafia roster and was like "it's her! she is Special" (thanks if that's the case guys)
Click to expand...

I mean







this has not qualitatively changed much since n0


----------



## mewtini

tbh it has, but also that's like ... not ... evidence? what
i'm not buying that they just decided i'd be town leader before i had said a word lol


----------



## mewtini

unless you're joking and i'm just being highstrung rn but


----------



## Trebek

M Plus 7 said:


> @Trebek
> 
> I searched Herbe's ISO for all mentions of RNP, and I only received two results, both from today:
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Herbe said:
> 
> 
> 
> yea fuckit i have so little reason to believe in *rnp*'s innocence
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> In isolation this could be a bus.
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Herbe said:
> 
> 
> 
> ughhhhh i might regret this but i think rnp might be telling the truth fr.
> *unvote*
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> But then I don't know what to make of this then?
> 
> I would say they're w/w compatible. Likely? Not sure about that.
Click to expand...

thanks!


----------



## Tangrowth

No problem!


----------



## Tangrowth

Is there anything else that has been discussed that could use a similar quick analysis?


----------



## Vipera Magnifica

caught up with discussion

RNP's last couple of posts read off to me as genuine indignation and I'm kinda losing faith in the idea that he's a w!roleblocker

going to *unvote *for now


----------



## Keldeo

I feel like others have said what I think about the claims better than I could. I'm having a pretty hard time wrapping my head around a world where both RNP and Herbe are town just because... 1.5 doctors and a jailkeeper?, and I don't think Herbe was fake checking RNP because (1) lol fake checks am I right, and (2) I think he would have rescinded the check then when he unvoted RNP. And I think Herbe is more/most likely town because of the wagons yesterday since Ultracool was most likely ingroup, which... 

hmm, mrgle, etc


----------



## kyeugh

M Plus 7 said:


> Spoiler
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Herbe said:
> 
> 
> 
> ughhhhh i might regret this but i think rnp might be telling the truth fr.
> *unvote*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> But then I don't know what to make of this then?
Click to expand...

 do you make anything of this?  to be honest herbe's unvote kind of pings me, and this post in particular feels a bit openwolfy maybe:


Herbe said:


> jailer could perhaps be mafia (cause i believe him where he explained how Theatre Cat blocks/protects) but shit man, rolecop is more likely than jailer to be mafia. idk i might change my mind on voting but here i am rn


if rnp is scum, i expect that his teammates didn't think the wagon would pick up as much traction as it did, and hoped it would fizzle out on its own eventually.  it popped up pretty early and didn't seem significantly more threatening at the outset than other wagons that had fallen apart did.  when herbe eventually unvoted, i very much received impressions of mafia going "shit, this wagon isn't going anywhere unless someone does something about it" and taking action.  of course that's not necessarily the case but that is the way it felt to me in the moment.


----------



## mewtini

mewtini said:


> tbh it has, but also that's like ... not ... evidence? what
> i'm not buying that they just decided i'd be town leader before i had said a word lol


ok i realize you were joking on that but the original theory is still like, tenuous, and it makes more sense to either figure out or shelf the n1 kill than it does to decide that mafia set about pocketing me from n0


----------



## Keldeo

Vipera Magnifica said:


> caught up with discussion
> 
> RNP's last couple of posts read off to me as genuine indignation and I'm kinda losing faith in the idea that he's a w!roleblocker
> 
> going to *unvote *for now


Yeah he reads as really genuine here, and I do feel bad if he is town, but like from a setup speculation perspective it seems so weird to me

I'm torn on behavior because I'm pretty sure he is a much better actor than people think...? I'm holding in my head meowfia + both games on MU here


----------



## mewtini

yeah i was also thinking about his wolfgame in the MU invitational


----------



## mewtini

but like. the town protective power if true. :|


----------



## kyeugh

i lowkey don't think w!herbe is trying conscientiously to pocket mewtini n0 because i think he'd probably feel too guilty to do that lol.  i would anyway


----------



## mewtini

kyeugh said:


> i lowkey don't think w!herbe is trying conscientiously to pocket mewtini n0 because i think he'd probably feel too guilty to do that lol.  i would anyway


yeah. i HOPE you two would feel too guilty to.


----------



## Keldeo

That's not meant to be like a backhanded compliment, like, RNP has really impressed me before



M Plus 7 said:


> Is there anything else that has been discussed that could use a similar quick analysis?


Can you look at the context surrounding the Herbe vote/unvote on RNP?


----------



## Tangrowth

kyeugh said:


> M Plus 7 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Herbe said:
> 
> 
> 
> ughhhhh i might regret this but i think rnp might be telling the truth fr.
> *unvote*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> But then I don't know what to make of this then?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> do you make anything of this?  to be honest herbe's unvote kind of pings me, and this post in particular feels a bit openwolfy maybe:
> 
> 
> Herbe said:
> 
> 
> 
> jailer could perhaps be mafia (cause i believe him where he explained how Theatre Cat blocks/protects) but shit man, rolecop is more likely than jailer to be mafia. idk i might change my mind on voting but here i am rn
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> if rnp is scum, i expect that his teammates didn't think the wagon would pick up as much traction as it did, and hoped it would fizzle out on its own eventually.  it popped up pretty early and didn't seem significantly more threatening at the outset than other wagons that had fallen apart did.  when herbe eventually unvoted, i very much received impressions of mafia going "shit, this wagon isn't going anywhere unless someone does something about it" and taking action.  of course that's not necessarily the case but that is the way it felt to me in the moment.
Click to expand...

It is pretty strange for sure. I'm trying to put myself in the mindset of v!Herbe vs. w!Herbe there... and the unvote does read a bit unprompted. 

In combination with the other post you noted though (not sure how I missed it, but I also looked really quickly, so thanks for that, I blame the search function though and not myself!)... that does read like someone that is thinking about wolf strategy in a way that I think wouldn't come naturally to a villager, even though maybe it depends on the type of player.

It is definitely plausible that they are w/w.


----------



## mewtini

mewtini said:


> but like. the town protective power if true. :|


btw no one has counterclaimed doctor


----------



## qenya

mewtini said:


> tbh it has, but also that's like ... not ... evidence? what
> i'm not buying that they just decided i'd be town leader before i had said a word lol





mewtini said:


> unless you're joking and i'm just being highstrung rn but


li'l bit of column A, li'l bit of column B

reacts are not at all the best metric of this but you are definitely one of the most active/known people on tcod in general and it doesn't seem totally out of the realm of possibility

like, it's not really the main part of my argument and it doesn't make much difference to the lynch target or to our plans based on rnp's flip, but I don't think it's as patently absurd as you're making out


----------



## mewtini

yeah i'm sorry if i overreacted, it was more of a "this doesn't seem very productive" at this point of EoD and i'm kinda stressed by the proceedings


----------



## Tangrowth

Keldeo said:


> Vipera Magnifica said:
> 
> 
> 
> caught up with discussion
> 
> RNP's last couple of posts read off to me as genuine indignation and I'm kinda losing faith in the idea that he's a w!roleblocker
> 
> going to *unvote *for now
> 
> 
> 
> Yeah he reads as really genuine here, and I do feel bad if he is town, but like from a setup speculation perspective it seems so weird to me
> 
> I'm torn on behavior because I'm pretty sure he is a much better actor than people think...? I'm holding in my head meowfia + both games on MU here
Click to expand...

But genuine here does not necessarily mean villagery genuine, right? Like... it could be a thoroughly frustrating situation for RNP to be in regardless of alignment. Combined with his... suspicions, I actually think it may seem more like a caught wolf trying to make shit up than a villager, but then again, RNP seems like an unpredictable type. What do you think?


----------



## Tangrowth

mewtini said:


> yeah i was also thinking about his wolfgame in the MU invitational


Can you expand on this?


----------



## Vipera Magnifica

Keldeo said:


> I'm torn on behavior because I'm pretty sure he is a much better actor than people think...? I'm holding in my head meowfia + both games on MU here


Maybe I am just underestimating his acting ability then

man I really don't know


----------



## kyeugh

mm, i don't know, i think it's pretty unlikely.  mewtini is my biffle but i don't really think the mafia team gets together and goes "well people like mewt, i think we should try and make an effort to pocket her, that'll pay off!" just because she's personally well-liked


----------



## Tangrowth

Keldeo said:


> That's not meant to be like a backhanded compliment, like, RNP has really impressed me before
> 
> 
> 
> M Plus 7 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Is there anything else that has been discussed that could use a similar quick analysis?
> 
> 
> 
> Can you look at the context surrounding the Herbe vote/unvote on RNP?
Click to expand...

I guess I just did that, lmao, my bad for not quoting it to begin with. What do you make of it?


----------



## mewtini

M Plus 7 said:


> mewtini said:
> 
> 
> 
> yeah i was also thinking about his wolfgame in the MU invitational
> 
> 
> 
> Can you expand on this?
Click to expand...

just that town!rnp (as i saw him in the game we played before this, where he got lynched over confirmed wolf) seemed scummier/less interested in the game's proceedings than he does here (yes, fr), which i read as more similar to his MU wolfgame


----------



## Bluwiikoon

I've not been awake for long and bro the mindgames


----------



## rari_teh

M Plus 7 said:


> that does read like someone that is thinking about wolf strategy in a way that I think wouldn't come naturally to a villager, even though maybe it depends on the type of player.


this isn’t valid imo
you can easily conjecture about how a wolf would think without being wolf yourself bc people aren’t villa/wolf for life


----------



## Tangrowth

mewtini said:


> M Plus 7 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> mewtini said:
> 
> 
> 
> yeah i was also thinking about his wolfgame in the MU invitational
> 
> 
> 
> Can you expand on this?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> just that town!rnp (as i saw him in the game we played before this, where he got lynched over confirmed wolf) seemed scummier/less interested in the game's proceedings than he does here (yes, fr), which i read as more similar to his MU wolfgame
Click to expand...

Oh, interesting, thanks!


----------



## mewtini

mewtini said:


> mewtini said:
> 
> 
> 
> but like. the town protective power if true. :|
> 
> 
> 
> btw no one has counterclaimed doctor
Click to expand...

by which i mean. idk why the "maybe ILS wasn't really doctor" thing continues on when the doctor probably should have counterclaimed to send herbe into the wolfgrave by now. as it stands we have no reason to believe that the proposition, if rnp is v, is doctor + partial heal + jailer, which doesn't fit in 14-player


----------



## Tangrowth

rari_teh said:


> M Plus 7 said:
> 
> 
> 
> that does read like someone that is thinking about wolf strategy in a way that I think wouldn't come naturally to a villager, even though maybe it depends on the type of player.
> 
> 
> 
> this isn’t valid imo
> you can easily conjecture about how a wolf would think without being wolf yourself bc people aren’t villa/wolf for life
Click to expand...

Sure, but I don't think it's probable. I don't think of wolf strategy when I'm town nearly as much as I do when I'm a wolf, so I'm less likely to make posts speculating about it.


----------



## rari_teh

mewtini said:


> M Plus 7 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> mewtini said:
> 
> 
> 
> yeah i was also thinking about his wolfgame in the MU invitational
> 
> 
> 
> Can you expand on this?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> just that town!rnp (as i saw him in the game we played before this, where he got lynched over confirmed wolf) seemed scummier/less interested in the game's proceedings than he does here (yes, fr), which i read as more similar to his MU wolfgame
Click to expand...

for the record i have looked into his MU invitational game and came to the opposite final conclusion
he was extremely solvy there and barely trolling at all


----------



## rari_teh

mewtini said:


> mewtini said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> mewtini said:
> 
> 
> 
> but like. the town protective power if true. :|
> 
> 
> 
> btw no one has counterclaimed doctor
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> by which i mean. idk why the "maybe ILS wasn't really doctor" thing continues on when the doctor probably should have counterclaimed to send herbe into the wolfgrave by now. as it stands we have no reason to believe that the proposition, if rnp is v, is doctor + partial heal + jailer, which doesn't fit in 14-player
Click to expand...

there would be no real doctor to counterclaim in that scenario :P


----------



## mewtini

so even if herbe is wolf, i think that ILS was probably just the doctor, meaning that rnp is still the most sensical lynch. i think?



rari_teh said:


> he was extremely solvy there and barely trolling at all


i think this depends on who coaches him/what his mindstate is. stryke wasn't even in that game lol


----------



## mewtini

rari_teh said:


> there would be no real doctor to counterclaim in that scenario :P


are you proposing that it would just be me and a jailer as town healing?


----------



## rari_teh

M Plus 7 said:


> rari_teh said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> M Plus 7 said:
> 
> 
> 
> that does read like someone that is thinking about wolf strategy in a way that I think wouldn't come naturally to a villager, even though maybe it depends on the type of player.
> 
> 
> 
> this isn’t valid imo
> you can easily conjecture about how a wolf would think without being wolf yourself bc people aren’t villa/wolf for life
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Sure, but I don't think it's probable. I don't think of wolf strategy when I'm town nearly as much as I do when I'm a wolf, so I'm less likely to make posts speculating about it.
Click to expand...

in this case


M Plus 7 said:


> maybe it depends on the type of player


----------



## rari_teh

mewtini said:


> rari_teh said:
> 
> 
> 
> there would be no real doctor to counterclaim in that scenario :P
> 
> 
> 
> are you proposing that it would just be me and a jailer as town healing?
Click to expand...

ayup


----------



## kyeugh

mewtini said:


> rari_teh said:
> 
> 
> 
> there would be no real doctor to counterclaim in that scenario :P
> 
> 
> 
> are you proposing that it would just be me and a jailer as town healing?
Click to expand...

that would be my assumption


----------



## mewtini

we're both nerfed though :|


----------



## mewtini

ugh my head hurts


----------



## mewtini

ok. i see. thought i was on to something there.
i still feel like it's more likely that it's just me + a doctor but maybe i'm just clinging onto conventional roles at that point


----------



## Tangrowth

rari_teh said:


> M Plus 7 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rari_teh said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> M Plus 7 said:
> 
> 
> 
> that does read like someone that is thinking about wolf strategy in a way that I think wouldn't come naturally to a villager, even though maybe it depends on the type of player.
> 
> 
> 
> this isn’t valid imo
> you can easily conjecture about how a wolf would think without being wolf yourself bc people aren’t villa/wolf for life
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Sure, but I don't think it's probable. I don't think of wolf strategy when I'm town nearly as much as I do when I'm a wolf, so I'm less likely to make posts speculating about it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> in this case
> 
> 
> M Plus 7 said:
> 
> 
> 
> maybe it depends on the type of player
> 
> Click to expand...
Click to expand...

For sure, it's possible. I can tell RNP approaches the game differently enough from the way I do that I wouldn't necessarily know what he's doing here, but it's still a consideration.


----------



## Keldeo

*unvote*

mmm


----------



## kyeugh

mewtini said:


> we're both nerfed though :|


that's why there are two of you


----------



## rari_teh

i’d say two nerfed doctors is enough for ten townies tbh


----------



## Vipera Magnifica

is there even another wagon rn or is it just rnp


----------



## mewtini

lol. yes. gdi i miss my blind resolve


----------



## Tangrowth

M Plus 7 said:


> rari_teh said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> M Plus 7 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rari_teh said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> M Plus 7 said:
> 
> 
> 
> that does read like someone that is thinking about wolf strategy in a way that I think wouldn't come naturally to a villager, even though maybe it depends on the type of player.
> 
> 
> 
> this isn’t valid imo
> you can easily conjecture about how a wolf would think without being wolf yourself bc people aren’t villa/wolf for life
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Sure, but I don't think it's probable. I don't think of wolf strategy when I'm town nearly as much as I do when I'm a wolf, so I'm less likely to make posts speculating about it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> in this case
> 
> 
> M Plus 7 said:
> 
> 
> 
> maybe it depends on the type of player
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> For sure, it's possible. I can tell RNP approaches the game differently enough from the way I do that I wouldn't necessarily know what he's doing here, but it's still a consideration.
Click to expand...

Herbe about RNP, sorry, derp alert. I need more coffee.


----------



## Keldeo

Vipera Magnifica said:


> is there even another wagon rn or is it just rnp


I was going to vote up MP7 as counterwagon but I actually like the conviction/analysis in his posts well enough here

aaargh


----------



## mewtini

Vipera Magnifica said:


> is there even another wagon rn or is it just rnp


it's pretty much just rnp ...


----------



## rari_teh

Vipera Magnifica said:


> is there even another wagon rn or is it just rnp


he’s the only one with more than one


----------



## Tangrowth

Keldeo said:


> Vipera Magnifica said:
> 
> 
> 
> is there even another wagon rn or is it just rnp
> 
> 
> 
> I was going to vote up MP7 as counterwagon but I actually like the conviction/analysis in his posts well enough here
> 
> aaargh
Click to expand...

How dare you.


----------



## rari_teh

@Vipera Magnifica:
RNP | blu, tofu, qva, emmy, mewt
emmy | RNP
vm | mist
m+7 | herbe
herbe | koko
qva | rnp


----------



## rari_teh

sorry, forgot tofu’s unvote

RNP | blu, qva, emmy, mewt
emmy | RNP
vm | mist
m+7 | herbe
herbe | koko
qva | rnp


----------



## kyeugh

Vipera Magnifica said:


> is there even another wagon rn or is it just rnp


 there are two on keldeo i believe?  unless someone unvoted

also i feel like this is pre-empting a "it's bad if there's only one wagon" thing but like, i think right now there are definitely scum on rnp's wagon atm regardless of his alignment because we are close to eod, and they're either pushing his wagon along or bussing him


----------



## Keldeo

*Herbe*

I'm actually pretty sold on Herbe and RNP being v/w or w/v now 

Even though I believe in RNP being mafia more than Herbe perhaps [redacted] will let me [redacted]...


----------



## Tangrowth

I wouldn't be opposed to a counterwagon... does anyone have any thoughts there? I did think Blu seemed like someone who needed some pressure when I ISOd there, but I also still haven't looked at a lot of people in that way, so that may be undue attention or something.


----------



## qenya

rari_teh said:


> emmy | RNP
> qva | rnp


----------



## kyeugh

oh what happened to the keldeo thing.


----------



## mewtini

godddd
man are we at rnp/herbe given how discussion is going?


----------



## Keldeo

kyeugh said:


> also i feel like this is pre-empting a "it's bad if there's only one wagon" thing but like, i think right now there are definitely scum on rnp's wagon atm regardless of his alignment because we are close to eod, and they're either pushing his wagon along or bussing him


Who do you think these people would be?


----------



## mewtini

i got ninjad.


kyeugh said:


> oh what happened to the keldeo thing.


people on wagon got afraid (by which i mean i did)


----------



## Trebek

i think i’m convincing myself more to vote rnp? idk tho bc i think i’m selfishly wanting rnp to be scum above herbe at that point (if herbe flips red then the basis for people TRing me goes down the drain and that’s spoopy)


----------



## kyeugh

Keldeo said:


> kyeugh said:
> 
> 
> 
> also i feel like this is pre-empting a "it's bad if there's only one wagon" thing but like, i think right now there are definitely scum on rnp's wagon atm regardless of his alignment because we are close to eod, and they're either pushing his wagon along or bussing him
> 
> 
> 
> Who do you think these people would be?
Click to expand...

 blu/tofu, i guess, since i don't think it's me/mewt/emmy


----------



## Tangrowth

Keldeo said:


> *Herbe*
> 
> I'm actually pretty sold on Herbe and RNP being v/w or w/v now
> 
> Even though I believe in RNP being mafia more than Herbe perhaps [redacted] will let me [redacted]...


Why not w/w?

w/v could make sense though.


----------



## Keldeo

mewtini said:


> godddd
> man are we at rnp/herbe given how discussion is going?


I kind of don't think they can be w/w. I see what people are saying about that one post about the jailer and Herbe's unvote but it feels... somewhat strange that Herbe would explicitly call out ILS as the doctor, after people had said that there being a doctor would make RNP mafia? Like that just seems like a recipe for getting your teammate killed


----------



## rari_teh

kokorico said:


> rari_teh said:
> 
> 
> 
> emmy | RNP
> qva | rnp
Click to expand...

i dun goofed again


kyeugh said:


> oh what happened to the keldeo thing.


i unvoted


----------



## Keldeo

kyeugh said:


> oh what happened to the keldeo thing.


I'm bleeding town.


----------



## Tangrowth

Keldeo said:


> mewtini said:
> 
> 
> 
> godddd
> man are we at rnp/herbe given how discussion is going?
> 
> 
> 
> I kind of don't think they can be w/w. I see what people are saying about that one post about the jailer and Herbe's unvote but it feels... somewhat strange that Herbe would explicitly call out ILS as the doctor, after people had said that there being a doctor would make RNP mafia? Like that just seems like a recipe for getting your teammate killed
Click to expand...

Hadn't thought about that, makes sense to me.


----------



## rari_teh

kyeugh said:


> Keldeo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> kyeugh said:
> 
> 
> 
> also i feel like this is pre-empting a "it's bad if there's only one wagon" thing but like, i think right now there are definitely scum on rnp's wagon atm regardless of his alignment because we are close to eod, and they're either pushing his wagon along or bussing him
> 
> 
> 
> Who do you think these people would be?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> blu/tofu, i guess, since i don't think it's me/mewt/emmy
Click to expand...

we vibin?
*Tofu*


----------



## kyeugh

i think it doesn't really matter to me if herbe/rnp goes although i think if there's suddenly a big herbe wagon at the end it's probably because he's town
however regardless of who we lynch, if it's between those two, if the lynchee flips green the vig needs to hit the other


----------



## kyeugh

rari_teh said:


> kyeugh said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Keldeo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> kyeugh said:
> 
> 
> 
> also i feel like this is pre-empting a "it's bad if there's only one wagon" thing but like, i think right now there are definitely scum on rnp's wagon atm regardless of his alignment because we are close to eod, and they're either pushing his wagon along or bussing him
> 
> 
> 
> Who do you think these people would be?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> blu/tofu, i guess, since i don't think it's me/mewt/emmy
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> we vibin?
> *Tofu*
Click to expand...


----------



## Bluwiikoon

Believe you me, the last thing I need in my life right now is some pressure. 

Someone showed me a hamster video and I cried


----------



## Tangrowth

Bluwiikoon said:


> Believe you me, the last thing I need in my life right now is some pressure.
> 
> Someone showed me a hamster video and I cried


LOL.


----------



## Trebek

i’m also highly on board with the idea of herbe/rnp being w/v or v/w, i’m not really vibing with either w/w or v/v explanations


----------



## kyeugh

i think if we lynch someone other than herbe/rnp that's probably.  bad.  i don't think we should start a third wagon but will not be particularly suspicious of anyone voting on herbe


----------



## Keldeo

Like can people considering them being w/w talk about how that makes any sense? The rolecop claim is just so weird to me, especially because in that world Herbe would have hard bussed and then reneged on it for ?? reasons.


----------



## kyeugh

Keldeo said:


> Like can people considering them being w/w talk about how that makes any sense? The rolecop claim is just so weird to me, especially because in that world Herbe would have hard bussed and then reneged on it for ?? reasons.


 i think the random reneging is already weird no matter what


----------



## mewtini

evening it out i think. *herbe*

so now it's actually 
RNP (3): blu, skylar, emmy
herbe (3): koko, keldeo, mewt
vm (1): mist
m+7 (1): herbe
skylar (1): rnp

right? i'm dangerously unclear on votecount atm


----------



## Tangrowth

Keldeo said:


> Like can people considering them being w/w talk about how that makes any sense? The rolecop claim is just so weird to me, especially because in that world Herbe would have hard bussed and then reneged on it for ?? reasons.


The reneging is strange tbh.


----------



## mewtini

sorry i hadn't considered me + jailer as the town healing :((((


----------



## Tangrowth

*RNP*


----------



## mewtini

oh i messed up hold on

RNP (4): blu, skylar, emmy, m+7
herbe (3): koko, keldeo, mewt
vm (1): mist
m+7 (1): herbe
skylar (1): rnp
tofu (1): rari


----------



## rari_teh

*herbe*
sorry mate


----------



## Trebek

i’m gonna go *herbe* for now bc of [nope] but my vote may or may not [nuh uh] in the next 45 minutes


----------



## Keldeo

My hesitation on Herbe is just that the wagons yesterday would have been pretty weird if w/w, no?


----------



## Vipera Magnifica

I'm leaning more towards *Herbe *than RNP tbh


----------



## Keldeo

Bluwiikoon said:


> Someone showed me a hamster video and I cried


I think you're now contractually obligated to show us this video in turn


----------



## rari_teh

*unvote*


----------



## mewtini

Keldeo said:


> My hesitation on Herbe is just that the wagons yesterday would have been pretty weird if w/w, no?


yeah ... i was trying to balance wagons but they have not stayed balanced ha


----------



## kyeugh

can someone explain the herbe thing to me

i don't really understand this except for in relation to rnp in which case it seems to me like it makes more sense to just shoot rnp and resolve herbe with the vig if necessary


----------



## Keldeo

rari_teh said:


> *herbe*
> sorry mate





Trebek said:


> i’m gonna go *herbe* for now bc of [nope] but my vote may or may not [nuh uh] in the next 45 minutes





Vipera Magnifica said:


> I'm leaning more towards *Herbe *than RNP tbh


Can you all tell me more?


----------



## Trebek

kyeugh said:


> can someone explain the herbe thing to me
> 
> i don't really understand this except for in relation to rnp in which case it seems to me like it makes more sense to just shoot rnp and resolve herbe with the vig if necessary


i’m in agreement but am currently [lol]


----------



## mewtini

Trebek said:


> i’m in agreement but am currently [lol]


huh


----------



## rari_teh

i just want to keep the wagons perfectly balanced as all things etc etc
sincerely i think they’re v/v and mafia is laughing hysterically


----------



## Bluwiikoon

Keldeo said:


> Bluwiikoon said:
> 
> 
> 
> Someone showed me a hamster video and I cried
> 
> 
> 
> I think you're now contractually obligated to show us this video in turn
Click to expand...

You asked for it! 









						PY7N3aJsUpgqzTRp GIF by 1monkeyshort | Gfycat
					

Watch and share PY7N3aJsUpgqzTRp GIFs by 1monkeyshort on Gfycat




					gfycat.com


----------



## mewtini

rari_teh said:


> i just want to keep the wagons perfectly balanced as all things etc etc
> sincerely i think they’re v/v and mafia is laughing hysterically


i'm so sorry if this just went over my head but i thought we'd decided against v/v because that is what puts the excess healing power on town?


----------



## Keldeo

kyeugh said:


> can someone explain the herbe thing to me
> 
> i don't really understand this except for in relation to rnp in which case it seems to me like it makes more sense to just shoot rnp and resolve herbe with the vig if necessary


Yeah for me it's in relation to *RNP*. I'm kind of no longer vibing because that makes sense to me and that seemed like a big swing.


----------



## Tangrowth

Keldeo said:


> kyeugh said:
> 
> 
> 
> can someone explain the herbe thing to me
> 
> i don't really understand this except for in relation to rnp in which case it seems to me like it makes more sense to just shoot rnp and resolve herbe with the vig if necessary
> 
> 
> 
> Yeah for me it's in relation to *RNP*. I'm kind of no longer vibing because that makes sense to me and that seemed like a big swing.
Click to expand...

The swing was a bit alarming, lol.


----------



## Keldeo

Bluwiikoon said:


> Keldeo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Bluwiikoon said:
> 
> 
> 
> Someone showed me a hamster video and I cried
> 
> 
> 
> I think you're now contractually obligated to show us this video in turn
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You asked for it!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> PY7N3aJsUpgqzTRp GIF by 1monkeyshort | Gfycat
> 
> 
> Watch and share PY7N3aJsUpgqzTRp GIFs by 1monkeyshort on Gfycat
> 
> 
> 
> 
> gfycat.com
Click to expand...

This is the best post in this thread.


----------



## Keldeo

M Plus 7 said:


> Keldeo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> kyeugh said:
> 
> 
> 
> can someone explain the herbe thing to me
> 
> i don't really understand this except for in relation to rnp in which case it seems to me like it makes more sense to just shoot rnp and resolve herbe with the vig if necessary
> 
> 
> 
> Yeah for me it's in relation to *RNP*. I'm kind of no longer vibing because that makes sense to me and that seemed like a big swing.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The swing was a bit alarming, lol.
Click to expand...

Do you have a reads list, even if it's vibes?


----------



## Vipera Magnifica

I changed my mind... *RNP *again


----------



## rari_teh

mewtini said:


> rari_teh said:
> 
> 
> 
> i just want to keep the wagons perfectly balanced as all things etc etc
> sincerely i think they’re v/v and mafia is laughing hysterically
> 
> 
> 
> i'm so sorry if this just went over my head but i thought we'd decided against v/v because that is what puts the excess healing power on town?
Click to expand...

i think that [redacted] solidly places herbe into town
i think that rnp’s behaviour from start to end puts him into town
also i have the same tinfoil as him wrt emmy
i think the inconsistency is not alignment indicative, if there even is an inconsistency


----------



## kyeugh

kyeugh said:


> i think if there's suddenly a big herbe wagon at the end it's probably because he's town


shakes finger


----------



## Tofu

Spoiler: Mist like mentioning me a lot






Mist1422 said:


> well that's unfortunate because that's like, my entire PoE
> 
> MP7/koko/RNP/Keldeo/tofu/blu are leftovers
> 
> idk an RNP/Keldeo/tofu/blu scumteam is...possible? ultracool might have to be outgroup for that though
> 
> what makes the most sense rn is RNP/Keldeo/tofu/blu/VM/Ultra, with ultra being outgroup
> 
> but would there really be an outgroup in the smaller setup?





Mist1422 said:


> butterfree/herbe/mewtini/emmy/RNP/tofu mech clear (assuming I read correctly and tofu claimed vig, not VM)





Mist1422 said:


> I am not willing to put RNP in the PoE until we get an alternate explanation on where the kill went
> 
> unless the team is like
> 
> RNP/Tofu/VM/+2 and there was a 1-shot vig





Mist1422 said:


> mewtini and Emmy seem like the most logical kills last night, maybe herbe
> 
> Outside shot of Tofu/VM I guess?





Mist1422 said:


> no infolynching
> 
> also am I insane for considering a world where butterfree is a mafia fishing brother who was partnered with mawile and scum![tofu/VM] is fakeclaiming the vig shots





Mist1422 said:


> also am I correct in remembering that whichever of tofu/VM wasn't the vig claimed watcher?
> 
> because if that's legit it could be helpful





Mist1422 said:


> the real alternate universe is where butterfree/VM/tofu are all scum and we're just looking the wrong way





Mist1422 said:


> terrorist theory?
> 
> I'm at a point where I don't think there's a world that makes sense where UC isn't outgroup unless it's exactly like, RNP/Blu/[tofu/VM]/Keldeo/kyeugh and that really does not make sense






I see a lot of focus on my from Mist. Anything you want to say or ask? Like, a large portion of your recent ISO concerns me, as well as me/vm.

Rari has also voted for me in the past in addition to today. Honestly I don't get it, but whatever.


----------



## rari_teh

then *herbe* it is


----------



## Trebek

Keldeo said:


> rari_teh said:
> 
> 
> 
> *herbe*
> sorry mate
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Trebek said:
> 
> 
> 
> i’m gonna go *herbe* for now bc of [nope] but my vote may or may not [nuh uh] in the next 45 minutes
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Vipera Magnifica said:
> 
> 
> 
> I'm leaning more towards *Herbe *than RNP tbh
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Can you all tell me more?
Click to expand...




mewtini said:


> Trebek said:
> 
> 
> 
> i’m in agreement but am currently [lol]
> 
> 
> 
> huh
Click to expand...




M Plus 7 said:


> Keldeo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> kyeugh said:
> 
> 
> 
> can someone explain the herbe thing to me
> 
> i don't really understand this except for in relation to rnp in which case it seems to me like it makes more sense to just shoot rnp and resolve herbe with the vig if necessary
> 
> 
> 
> Yeah for me it's in relation to *RNP*. I'm kind of no longer vibing because that makes sense to me and that seemed like a big swing.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The swing was a bit alarming, lol.
Click to expand...

alright, i’m done meming- *rnp*

i was interested in seeing how the mafia would react to a herbe wagon suddenly appearing: would they wagon it, or double down on rnp?


----------



## Tangrowth

Keldeo said:


> M Plus 7 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Keldeo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> kyeugh said:
> 
> 
> 
> can someone explain the herbe thing to me
> 
> i don't really understand this except for in relation to rnp in which case it seems to me like it makes more sense to just shoot rnp and resolve herbe with the vig if necessary
> 
> 
> 
> Yeah for me it's in relation to *RNP*. I'm kind of no longer vibing because that makes sense to me and that seemed like a big swing.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The swing was a bit alarming, lol.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Do you have a reads list, even if it's vibes?
Click to expand...

Oh, good question! A lot of it would be just vibes... but absolutely, let me do that.


----------



## kyeugh

Tofu said:


> Spoiler: Mist like mentioning me a lot
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mist1422 said:
> 
> 
> 
> well that's unfortunate because that's like, my entire PoE
> 
> MP7/koko/RNP/Keldeo/tofu/blu are leftovers
> 
> idk an RNP/Keldeo/tofu/blu scumteam is...possible? ultracool might have to be outgroup for that though
> 
> what makes the most sense rn is RNP/Keldeo/tofu/blu/VM/Ultra, with ultra being outgroup
> 
> but would there really be an outgroup in the smaller setup?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mist1422 said:
> 
> 
> 
> butterfree/herbe/mewtini/emmy/RNP/tofu mech clear (assuming I read correctly and tofu claimed vig, not VM)
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mist1422 said:
> 
> 
> 
> I am not willing to put RNP in the PoE until we get an alternate explanation on where the kill went
> 
> unless the team is like
> 
> RNP/Tofu/VM/+2 and there was a 1-shot vig
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mist1422 said:
> 
> 
> 
> mewtini and Emmy seem like the most logical kills last night, maybe herbe
> 
> Outside shot of Tofu/VM I guess?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mist1422 said:
> 
> 
> 
> no infolynching
> 
> also am I insane for considering a world where butterfree is a mafia fishing brother who was partnered with mawile and scum![tofu/VM] is fakeclaiming the vig shots
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mist1422 said:
> 
> 
> 
> also am I correct in remembering that whichever of tofu/VM wasn't the vig claimed watcher?
> 
> because if that's legit it could be helpful
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mist1422 said:
> 
> 
> 
> the real alternate universe is where butterfree/VM/tofu are all scum and we're just looking the wrong way
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mist1422 said:
> 
> 
> 
> terrorist theory?
> 
> I'm at a point where I don't think there's a world that makes sense where UC isn't outgroup unless it's exactly like, RNP/Blu/[tofu/VM]/Keldeo/kyeugh and that really does not make sense
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I see a lot of focus on my from Mist. Anything you want to say or ask? Like, a large portion of your recent ISO concerns me, as well as me/vm.
> 
> Rari has also voted for me in the past in addition to today. Honestly I don't get it, but whatever.
Click to expand...

this seems like a thing to discuss tomorrow tbh


----------



## Keldeo

rari_teh said:


> mewtini said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rari_teh said:
> 
> 
> 
> i just want to keep the wagons perfectly balanced as all things etc etc
> sincerely i think they’re v/v and mafia is laughing hysterically
> 
> 
> 
> i'm so sorry if this just went over my head but i thought we'd decided against v/v because that is what puts the excess healing power on town?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> i think that [redacted] solidly places herbe into town
> i think that rnp’s behaviour from start to end puts him into town
> also i have the same tinfoil as him wrt emmy
> i think the inconsistency is not alignment indicative, if there even is an inconsistency
Click to expand...

You've not actually addressed the setup thing in this post? If you have an explanation for that I'm very interested in hearing it, otherwise I'm not too swayed by [redacted] and behavior


----------



## Bluwiikoon

Considering we know who the vig is (supposedly!), keeping RNP alive may enable a roleblock on vm/tofu that we don't want if he flips red  Assuming there is no other role-blocking role and he doesn't just go for emmy again or mewtini


----------



## Keldeo

kyeugh said:


> Tofu said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Mist like mentioning me a lot
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mist1422 said:
> 
> 
> 
> well that's unfortunate because that's like, my entire PoE
> 
> MP7/koko/RNP/Keldeo/tofu/blu are leftovers
> 
> idk an RNP/Keldeo/tofu/blu scumteam is...possible? ultracool might have to be outgroup for that though
> 
> what makes the most sense rn is RNP/Keldeo/tofu/blu/VM/Ultra, with ultra being outgroup
> 
> but would there really be an outgroup in the smaller setup?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mist1422 said:
> 
> 
> 
> butterfree/herbe/mewtini/emmy/RNP/tofu mech clear (assuming I read correctly and tofu claimed vig, not VM)
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mist1422 said:
> 
> 
> 
> I am not willing to put RNP in the PoE until we get an alternate explanation on where the kill went
> 
> unless the team is like
> 
> RNP/Tofu/VM/+2 and there was a 1-shot vig
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mist1422 said:
> 
> 
> 
> mewtini and Emmy seem like the most logical kills last night, maybe herbe
> 
> Outside shot of Tofu/VM I guess?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mist1422 said:
> 
> 
> 
> no infolynching
> 
> also am I insane for considering a world where butterfree is a mafia fishing brother who was partnered with mawile and scum![tofu/VM] is fakeclaiming the vig shots
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mist1422 said:
> 
> 
> 
> also am I correct in remembering that whichever of tofu/VM wasn't the vig claimed watcher?
> 
> because if that's legit it could be helpful
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mist1422 said:
> 
> 
> 
> the real alternate universe is where butterfree/VM/tofu are all scum and we're just looking the wrong way
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mist1422 said:
> 
> 
> 
> terrorist theory?
> 
> I'm at a point where I don't think there's a world that makes sense where UC isn't outgroup unless it's exactly like, RNP/Blu/[tofu/VM]/Keldeo/kyeugh and that really does not make sense
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I see a lot of focus on my from Mist. Anything you want to say or ask? Like, a large portion of your recent ISO concerns me, as well as me/vm.
> 
> Rari has also voted for me in the past in addition to today. Honestly I don't get it, but whatever.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> this seems like a thing to discuss tomorrow tbh
Click to expand...

We have time, it's fair to bring it up now.


----------



## Tofu

My confusion about rnp is because, if he were town and protected her by jailing her, why would he then go vote for her the next day? Unless there was some mechanic where he could actually talk to her during the night phase and suspected something... I'm just too confused to commit to a vote on him, but could maybe be convinced. Or maybe my confusion _should _convince me, but, I have work brain right now.


----------



## rari_teh

Tofu said:


> Rari has also voted for me in the past in addition to today. Honestly I don't get it, but whatever.


i am now in agreement with skylar that it is a bit too late for discussing alternate wagons
i shall make my case on you tomorrow though


----------



## kyeugh

man sorry but the whole [redacted] thing seems weird to me.  why are we still calling it this if it's apparently a thing you can find in thread and people are just openly discussing it anyway


----------



## Keldeo

btw MP7 did I answer all your questions? I know you asked me some but I think I probably answered them in the course of doing normal stuff



Trebek said:


> Keldeo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rari_teh said:
> 
> 
> 
> *herbe*
> sorry mate
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Trebek said:
> 
> 
> 
> i’m gonna go *herbe* for now bc of [nope] but my vote may or may not [nuh uh] in the next 45 minutes
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Vipera Magnifica said:
> 
> 
> 
> I'm leaning more towards *Herbe *than RNP tbh
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Can you all tell me more?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> mewtini said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Trebek said:
> 
> 
> 
> i’m in agreement but am currently [lol]
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> huh
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> M Plus 7 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Keldeo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> kyeugh said:
> 
> 
> 
> can someone explain the herbe thing to me
> 
> i don't really understand this except for in relation to rnp in which case it seems to me like it makes more sense to just shoot rnp and resolve herbe with the vig if necessary
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Yeah for me it's in relation to *RNP*. I'm kind of no longer vibing because that makes sense to me and that seemed like a big swing.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The swing was a bit alarming, lol.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> alright, i’m done meming- *rnp*
> 
> i was interested in seeing how the mafia would react to a herbe wagon suddenly appearing: would they wagon it, or double down on rnp?
Click to expand...

Who if anyone do you think is most likely to be mafia here in the quoted posts, and what would they be doing?


----------



## mewtini

tofu's post makes me feel :/?
what tf is the votecount tbh i tried counting and things happened too fast


----------



## Trebek

Tofu said:


> My confusion about rnp is because, if he were town and protected her by jailing her, why would he then go vote for her the next day? Unless there was some mechanic where he could actually talk to her during the night phase and suspected something... I'm just too confused to commit to a vote on him, but could maybe be convinced. Or maybe my confusion _should _convince me, but, I have work brain right now.


his jail also functions as a role block, so it would be reasonable for him to assume that he either a) protected emmy from death or b) stopped emmy from killing


----------



## Tofu

kyeugh said:


> Tofu said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Mist like mentioning me a lot
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mist1422 said:
> 
> 
> 
> well that's unfortunate because that's like, my entire PoE
> 
> MP7/koko/RNP/Keldeo/tofu/blu are leftovers
> 
> idk an RNP/Keldeo/tofu/blu scumteam is...possible? ultracool might have to be outgroup for that though
> 
> what makes the most sense rn is RNP/Keldeo/tofu/blu/VM/Ultra, with ultra being outgroup
> 
> but would there really be an outgroup in the smaller setup?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mist1422 said:
> 
> 
> 
> butterfree/herbe/mewtini/emmy/RNP/tofu mech clear (assuming I read correctly and tofu claimed vig, not VM)
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mist1422 said:
> 
> 
> 
> I am not willing to put RNP in the PoE until we get an alternate explanation on where the kill went
> 
> unless the team is like
> 
> RNP/Tofu/VM/+2 and there was a 1-shot vig
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mist1422 said:
> 
> 
> 
> mewtini and Emmy seem like the most logical kills last night, maybe herbe
> 
> Outside shot of Tofu/VM I guess?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mist1422 said:
> 
> 
> 
> no infolynching
> 
> also am I insane for considering a world where butterfree is a mafia fishing brother who was partnered with mawile and scum![tofu/VM] is fakeclaiming the vig shots
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mist1422 said:
> 
> 
> 
> also am I correct in remembering that whichever of tofu/VM wasn't the vig claimed watcher?
> 
> because if that's legit it could be helpful
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mist1422 said:
> 
> 
> 
> the real alternate universe is where butterfree/VM/tofu are all scum and we're just looking the wrong way
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mist1422 said:
> 
> 
> 
> terrorist theory?
> 
> I'm at a point where I don't think there's a world that makes sense where UC isn't outgroup unless it's exactly like, RNP/Blu/[tofu/VM]/Keldeo/kyeugh and that really does not make sense
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I see a lot of focus on my from Mist. Anything you want to say or ask? Like, a large portion of your recent ISO concerns me, as well as me/vm.
> 
> Rari has also voted for me in the past in addition to today. Honestly I don't get it, but whatever.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> this seems like a thing to discuss tomorrow tbh
Click to expand...

Yeah sorry, was just looking through ISO and wanted to paste it before I forgot. I would be okay with discuss next day phase (but might forget so wanted others to see)


----------



## kyeugh

Tofu said:


> My confusion about rnp is because, if he were town and protected her by jailing her, why would he then go vote for her the next day?


 he wasn't protecting her, he was blocking her because he thought she was scum, and then voted her because he thought his block had prevented her from carrying out the nightkill.  he still scumreads her


----------



## mewtini

*RNP*


----------



## Vipera Magnifica

Bluwiikoon said:


> Considering we know who the vig is (supposedly!), keeping RNP alive may enable a roleblock on vm/tofu that we don't want if he flips red  Assuming there is no other role-blocking role and he doesn't just go for emmy again or mewtini


this is part of why i went back to RNP tbh

also while I think of this, if RNP flips red, I think it's safe for Butterfree to claim the other fishing brother


----------



## Keldeo

Tofu said:


> My confusion about rnp is because, if he were town and protected her by jailing her, why would he then go vote for her the next day? Unless there was some mechanic where he could actually talk to her during the night phase and suspected something... I'm just too confused to commit to a vote on him, but could maybe be convinced. Or maybe my confusion _should _convince me, but, I have work brain right now.


I think if he was town, the reasoning he gave was that Emmy could be the one doing the mafia kill, based on there being no kill. The jailkeeper role that he claimed roleblocks the target and protects them, there's no talking mechanic.


----------



## Keldeo

Vipera Magnifica said:


> also while I think of this, if RNP flips red, I think it's safe for Butterfree to claim the other fishing brother


Ooh yeah, this is a good idea imo.


----------



## Trebek

Keldeo said:


> btw MP7 did I answer all your questions? I know you asked me some but I think I probably answered them in the course of doing normal stuff
> 
> 
> 
> Trebek said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Keldeo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rari_teh said:
> 
> 
> 
> *herbe*
> sorry mate
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Trebek said:
> 
> 
> 
> i’m gonna go *herbe* for now bc of [nope] but my vote may or may not [nuh uh] in the next 45 minutes
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Vipera Magnifica said:
> 
> 
> 
> I'm leaning more towards *Herbe *than RNP tbh
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Can you all tell me more?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> mewtini said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Trebek said:
> 
> 
> 
> i’m in agreement but am currently [lol]
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> huh
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> M Plus 7 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Keldeo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> kyeugh said:
> 
> 
> 
> can someone explain the herbe thing to me
> 
> i don't really understand this except for in relation to rnp in which case it seems to me like it makes more sense to just shoot rnp and resolve herbe with the vig if necessary
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Yeah for me it's in relation to *RNP*. I'm kind of no longer vibing because that makes sense to me and that seemed like a big swing.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The swing was a bit alarming, lol.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> alright, i’m done meming- *rnp*
> 
> i was interested in seeing how the mafia would react to a herbe wagon suddenly appearing: would they wagon it, or double down on rnp?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Who if anyone do you think is most likely to be mafia here in the quoted posts, and what would they be doing?
Click to expand...

i was pinged by vm flipping to herbe immediately after me, then flipping to rnp immediately after you. don’t want to pursue this exactly today tho since there’s still a fair chance hes vig


----------



## Tofu

No honestly I might not have time to discuss; I am working until 30 minutes after the day phase ends and might not be here consistently


----------



## kyeugh

Tofu said:


> kyeugh said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Tofu said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Mist like mentioning me a lot
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mist1422 said:
> 
> 
> 
> well that's unfortunate because that's like, my entire PoE
> 
> MP7/koko/RNP/Keldeo/tofu/blu are leftovers
> 
> idk an RNP/Keldeo/tofu/blu scumteam is...possible? ultracool might have to be outgroup for that though
> 
> what makes the most sense rn is RNP/Keldeo/tofu/blu/VM/Ultra, with ultra being outgroup
> 
> but would there really be an outgroup in the smaller setup?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mist1422 said:
> 
> 
> 
> butterfree/herbe/mewtini/emmy/RNP/tofu mech clear (assuming I read correctly and tofu claimed vig, not VM)
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mist1422 said:
> 
> 
> 
> I am not willing to put RNP in the PoE until we get an alternate explanation on where the kill went
> 
> unless the team is like
> 
> RNP/Tofu/VM/+2 and there was a 1-shot vig
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mist1422 said:
> 
> 
> 
> mewtini and Emmy seem like the most logical kills last night, maybe herbe
> 
> Outside shot of Tofu/VM I guess?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mist1422 said:
> 
> 
> 
> no infolynching
> 
> also am I insane for considering a world where butterfree is a mafia fishing brother who was partnered with mawile and scum![tofu/VM] is fakeclaiming the vig shots
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mist1422 said:
> 
> 
> 
> also am I correct in remembering that whichever of tofu/VM wasn't the vig claimed watcher?
> 
> because if that's legit it could be helpful
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mist1422 said:
> 
> 
> 
> the real alternate universe is where butterfree/VM/tofu are all scum and we're just looking the wrong way
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mist1422 said:
> 
> 
> 
> terrorist theory?
> 
> I'm at a point where I don't think there's a world that makes sense where UC isn't outgroup unless it's exactly like, RNP/Blu/[tofu/VM]/Keldeo/kyeugh and that really does not make sense
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I see a lot of focus on my from Mist. Anything you want to say or ask? Like, a large portion of your recent ISO concerns me, as well as me/vm.
> 
> Rari has also voted for me in the past in addition to today. Honestly I don't get it, but whatever.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> this seems like a thing to discuss tomorrow tbh
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Yeah sorry, was just looking through ISO and wanted to paste it before I forgot. I would be okay with discuss next day phase (but might forget so wanted others to see)
Click to expand...

nah it's good i didn't mean to be snappy with it, it just seems like a thing that maybe warrants a more extended discussion than we can have right now with the limited time/presence of other discussion going on


----------



## rari_teh

Keldeo said:


> You've not actually addressed the setup thing in this post? If you have an explanation for that I'm very interested in hearing it, otherwise I'm not too swayed by [redacted] and behavior


i’m just saying that maybe the setup is either indeed lopsided or mafia has some big fucking guns laying dormant


Tofu said:


> My confusion about rnp is because, if he were town and protected her by jailing her, why would he then go vote for her the next day? Unless there was some mechanic where he could actually talk to her during the night phase and suspected something... I'm just too confused to commit to a vote on him, but could maybe be convinced. Or maybe my confusion _should _convince me, but, I have work brain right now.


i explained this to you earlier toDay. i feel like you are being disingenuous


kyeugh said:


> man sorry but the whole [redacted] thing seems weird to me.  why are we still calling it this if it's apparently a thing you can find in thread and people are just openly discussing it anyway


tbh because it’s easier to call it that way at this point lol


----------



## Trebek

but frankly, these vote flops are revitalizing my big tinfoilhat theory, but i don’t want to think about that before flips


----------



## kyeugh

Vipera Magnifica said:


> also while I think of this, if RNP flips red, I think it's safe for Butterfree to claim the other fishing brother


 wait why, just for the clear?


----------



## Vipera Magnifica

Tofu said:


> My confusion about rnp is because, if he were town and protected her by jailing her, why would he then go vote for her the next day? Unless there was some mechanic where he could actually talk to her during the night phase and suspected something... I'm just too confused to commit to a vote on him, but could maybe be convinced. Or maybe my confusion _should _convince me, but, I have work brain right now.


If that was the case he would have talked to Stryke and Skylar as well


----------



## Bluwiikoon

Tofu good luck with your work!! Hang in there! ;o;


----------



## mewtini

kyeugh said:


> Vipera Magnifica said:
> 
> 
> 
> also while I think of this, if RNP flips red, I think it's safe for Butterfree to claim the other fishing brother
> 
> 
> 
> wait why, just for the clear?
Click to expand...

no roleblocker then


----------



## Keldeo

kyeugh said:


> Vipera Magnifica said:
> 
> 
> 
> also while I think of this, if RNP flips red, I think it's safe for Butterfree to claim the other fishing brother
> 
> 
> 
> wait why, just for the clear?
Click to expand...

For the clear, and because the situation where mafia can just kill one of them and block the other becomes no longer possible if RNP is mafia. Now they have to fear the revenge vig shot so they can't eliminate the clear villagers.


----------



## mewtini

most likely anyway


----------



## mewtini

lol jk.


----------



## kyeugh

oh fsr i didn't consider that the fishing brother's kill could be blocked


----------



## Bluwiikoon

I'd lean towards keeping fishing brother a secret unless they're in immediate danger imo


----------



## Keldeo

kyeugh said:


> oh fsr i didn't consider that the fishing brother's kill could be blocked


I don't actually know if it can, but from how Butterfree described it earlier it seems reasonable?


----------



## rari_teh

Bluwiikoon said:


> I'd lean towards keeping fishing brother a secret unless they're in immediate danger imo


this tbh
if mafia knows who the fishing brother is, they’ll never kill either of them and we’ll never get our second vigkill


----------



## kyeugh

idk, i think the mafia are unlikely to kill a fishing brother unless they have no other option, so it's probably good for that information to be public so we have a bigger group of locktowns and can better filter out the scum.  i'm vibing with this tbh


----------



## rari_teh

rari_teh said:


> Bluwiikoon said:
> 
> 
> 
> I'd lean towards keeping fishing brother a secret unless they're in immediate danger imo
> 
> 
> 
> this tbh
> if mafia knows who the fishing brother is, they’ll never kill either of them and we’ll never get our second vigkill
Click to expand...

maybe not even if the fishing brother is in danger


----------



## mewtini

does anyone have a votecount? if not i can ... do it..... 
also mafia is actively disincentivized to kill fishing brothers, so we get a bigger towncore


----------



## Trebek

but if mafia know both fishing brothers, they turn into vanilla town


----------



## mewtini

unless we really want the vigkill that is heh


----------



## kyeugh

rari_teh said:


> Bluwiikoon said:
> 
> 
> 
> I'd lean towards keeping fishing brother a secret unless they're in immediate danger imo
> 
> 
> 
> this tbh
> if mafia knows who the fishing brother is, they’ll never kill either of them and we’ll never get our second vigkill
Click to expand...

 i think the one-shot kill is less useful (esp considering we have an actual vig) than sorting as many people as possible without having to risk a mislynch/vig misfire


----------



## Trebek

is that a risk we want to take


----------



## rari_teh

RNP is ahead by a fuckton of votes
i have no idea how many a fuckton is, but it is at least 2 ig


----------



## Keldeo

I guess in the end it's up to whether Butterfree/her partner think it's better to be quasi-vanilla but clear in thread, or possibly get to use their ability but not have her partner be cleared.


----------



## kyeugh

Trebek said:


> but if mafia know both fishing brothers, they turn into vanilla town


more like two locktown bombs tbh


----------



## mewtini

kyeugh said:


> i think the one-shot kill is less useful (esp considering we have an actual vig) than sorting as many people as possible without having to risk a mislynch/vig misfire


er, in that case they can just roleclaim before a mislynch?

also i hate to say it but is htis productive


----------



## rari_teh

kyeugh said:


> rari_teh said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Bluwiikoon said:
> 
> 
> 
> I'd lean towards keeping fishing brother a secret unless they're in immediate danger imo
> 
> 
> 
> this tbh
> if mafia knows who the fishing brother is, they’ll never kill either of them and we’ll never get our second vigkill
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> i think the one-shot kill is less useful (esp considering we have an actual vig) than sorting as many people as possible without having to risk a mislynch/vig misfire
Click to expand...

oh come on we all suspect who the vig is
they’re set to die sooner or later tbh


----------



## Trebek

inb4 mafia fishing bros


----------



## kyeugh

mewtini said:


> kyeugh said:
> 
> 
> 
> i think the one-shot kill is less useful (esp considering we have an actual vig) than sorting as many people as possible without having to risk a mislynch/vig misfire
> 
> 
> 
> er, in that case they can just roleclaim before a mislynch?
> 
> also i hate to say it but is htis productive
Click to expand...

i mean, no, that doesn't achieve the same thing at all

also i don't really see why not tbh


----------



## Vipera Magnifica

rari_teh said:


> Bluwiikoon said:
> 
> 
> 
> I'd lean towards keeping fishing brother a secret unless they're in immediate danger imo
> 
> 
> 
> this tbh
> if mafia knows who the fishing brother is, they’ll never kill either of them and we’ll never get our second vigkill
Click to expand...

it's more useful to town to be able to narrow down the pool of potential mafia


----------



## rari_teh

mewtini said:


> also i hate to say it but is htis productive


not at all
maybe i should side-eye whoever began talking about this obvious distraction


----------



## kyeugh

rari_teh said:


> kyeugh said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rari_teh said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Bluwiikoon said:
> 
> 
> 
> I'd lean towards keeping fishing brother a secret unless they're in immediate danger imo
> 
> 
> 
> this tbh
> if mafia knows who the fishing brother is, they’ll never kill either of them and we’ll never get our second vigkill
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> i think the one-shot kill is less useful (esp considering we have an actual vig) than sorting as many people as possible without having to risk a mislynch/vig misfire
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> oh come on we all suspect who the vig is
> they’re set to die sooner or later tbh
Click to expand...

well yeah, we all are, unless we win first, which is not impossible even without vig/fishing brothers related kills in the equation at all


----------



## mewtini

i didn't mean to point at anyone for this, i just don't see what it has to do with the lynch, sorry


----------



## Keldeo

mewtini said:


> also i hate to say it but is htis productive


Yeah idk uhhh

I'm kind of waiting on MP7's reads list but does anyone else want to toss around other reads / worlds? I'm pretty okay with the wagons still


----------



## Keldeo

mewtini said:


> i didn't mean to point at anyone for this, i just don't see what it has to do with the lynch, sorry


idk do you feel like we should be yeeting/considering someone else?


----------



## kyeugh

i mean if people have stuff to say about the lynch they're free to do so but i don't think we should be disallowed from talking about anything else?  it's not like we're beating people down for discussing lynch related stuff


----------



## Tangrowth

*MP7 vibes-based reads list*



Spoiler



Moderate to strong town
Butterfree
Emmy
mewtini

Slight to moderate town
Keldeo
koko
kyuegh
rari

Upper POE
Herbe
Mist
Tofu
Trebek
VM

Lower POE
Blu
RNP



Alphabetical within tiers.

@Keldeo


----------



## mewtini

i didn't mean to imply that. but i thought the lynch was still contested and we don't have much time


----------



## rari_teh

kyeugh said:


> rari_teh said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> kyeugh said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rari_teh said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Bluwiikoon said:
> 
> 
> 
> I'd lean towards keeping fishing brother a secret unless they're in immediate danger imo
> 
> 
> 
> this tbh
> if mafia knows who the fishing brother is, they’ll never kill either of them and we’ll never get our second vigkill
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> i think the one-shot kill is less useful (esp considering we have an actual vig) than sorting as many people as possible without having to risk a mislynch/vig misfire
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> oh come on we all suspect who the vig is
> they’re set to die sooner or later tbh
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> well yeah, we all are, unless we win first, which is not impossible even without vig/fishing brothers related kills in the equation at all
Click to expand...

i think it would be better if we discussed this tomorrow tbh
it’s less than 30 min until sundown and this discussion has nothing to do with our current tricky situation


----------



## Keldeo

Blu, how's it going? Where's your head at?


----------



## kyeugh

rari_teh said:


> kyeugh said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rari_teh said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> kyeugh said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rari_teh said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Bluwiikoon said:
> 
> 
> 
> I'd lean towards keeping fishing brother a secret unless they're in immediate danger imo
> 
> 
> 
> this tbh
> if mafia knows who the fishing brother is, they’ll never kill either of them and we’ll never get our second vigkill
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> i think the one-shot kill is less useful (esp considering we have an actual vig) than sorting as many people as possible without having to risk a mislynch/vig misfire
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> oh come on we all suspect who the vig is
> they’re set to die sooner or later tbh
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> well yeah, we all are, unless we win first, which is not impossible even without vig/fishing brothers related kills in the equation at all
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> i think it would be better if we discussed this tomorrow tbh
> it’s less than 30 min until sundown and this discussion has nothing to do with our current tricky situation
Click to expand...

i mean feel free to talk about the tricky situation then


----------



## kyeugh

M Plus 7 said:


> *MP7 vibes-based reads list*
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler
> 
> 
> 
> Moderate to strong town
> Butterfree
> Emmy
> mewtini
> 
> Slight to moderate town
> Keldeo
> koko
> kyuegh
> rari
> 
> Upper POE
> Herbe
> Mist
> Tofu
> Trebek
> VM
> 
> Lower POE
> Blu
> RNP
> 
> 
> 
> Alphabetical within tiers.
> 
> @Keldeo


can you explain your koko read a bit or link me to a post where you did? sorry if you've already explained this and i'm forgetting


----------



## Tangrowth

Keldeo said:


> btw MP7 did I answer all your questions? I know you asked me some but I think I probably answered them in the course of doing normal stuff
> 
> 
> 
> Trebek said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Keldeo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rari_teh said:
> 
> 
> 
> *herbe*
> sorry mate
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Trebek said:
> 
> 
> 
> i’m gonna go *herbe* for now bc of [nope] but my vote may or may not [nuh uh] in the next 45 minutes
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Vipera Magnifica said:
> 
> 
> 
> I'm leaning more towards *Herbe *than RNP tbh
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Can you all tell me more?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> mewtini said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Trebek said:
> 
> 
> 
> i’m in agreement but am currently [lol]
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> huh
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> M Plus 7 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Keldeo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> kyeugh said:
> 
> 
> 
> can someone explain the herbe thing to me
> 
> i don't really understand this except for in relation to rnp in which case it seems to me like it makes more sense to just shoot rnp and resolve herbe with the vig if necessary
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Yeah for me it's in relation to *RNP*. I'm kind of no longer vibing because that makes sense to me and that seemed like a big swing.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The swing was a bit alarming, lol.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> alright, i’m done meming- *rnp*
> 
> i was interested in seeing how the mafia would react to a herbe wagon suddenly appearing: would they wagon it, or double down on rnp?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Who if anyone do you think is most likely to be mafia here in the quoted posts, and what would they be doing?
Click to expand...

I think so yeah, thanks for checking though!


----------



## Keldeo

M Plus 7 said:


> *MP7 vibes-based reads list*
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler
> 
> 
> 
> Moderate to strong town
> Butterfree
> Emmy
> mewtini
> 
> Slight to moderate town
> Keldeo
> koko
> kyuegh
> rari
> 
> Upper POE
> Herbe
> Mist
> Tofu
> Trebek
> VM
> 
> Lower POE
> Blu
> RNP
> 
> 
> 
> Alphabetical within tiers.
> 
> @Keldeo


Can you explain about me, koko, and Tofu/VM being where you put them? What do you think of the earlier Blu/RNP not w/w read for Blu not seeming to understand about the jailer, I don't remember if you said?


----------



## Keldeo

Oh actually I think that post Tofu made a couple minutes ago about not understanding why town jailkeeper RNP would vote Emmy actually makes her and RNP probably not mafia together, either - both because of the pressing on RNP and because of the confusion about the jailkeeper role.


----------



## Tangrowth

Keldeo said:


> I guess in the end it's up to whether Butterfree/her partner think it's better to be quasi-vanilla but clear in thread, or possibly get to use their ability but not have her partner be cleared.


Yeah, I agree with this.


----------



## Bluwiikoon

Keldeo said:


> Blu, how's it going? Where's your head at?


Not gonna lie my brain is white static at this point    Everyone seems to have a good grasp on things and I'm not really sure what I can contribute aside from just stray thoughts as they come to me. Mafia... is a tricky game!

I really wanna believe VM/Tofu are town for reasons. I guess when more flips come to light, I should revisit my Roster List tomorrow?


----------



## Butterfree

So, hmm. I kiiiind of want to vote Herbe, because like I said I'm still side-eyeing him for the same reasons as yesterday. I'm starting to think maybe we just have a very, very bussy mafia, and they hoped to gain Herbe towncred by letting the wagons be mostly even and then letting Ultracool die?

On the other hand, for all the mechanical reasons outlined previously, RNP is pretty suspect, and also the sudden move onto Herbe a little while back was kind of huh...?

Ngggh. I think I agree with the previously provided reasoning that ultimately, if RNP is mafia and we don't lynch him now, his roleblocking could stop the vig from getting him tonight, while Herbe is more likely to be safely vigged? *RNP*


----------



## mewtini

Bluwiikoon said:


> I really wanna believe VM/Tofu are town for reasons


if you can - what are the reasons rq?


----------



## Keldeo

Bluwiikoon said:


> Keldeo said:
> 
> 
> 
> Blu, how's it going? Where's your head at?
> 
> 
> 
> Not gonna lie my brain is white static at this point    Everyone seems to have a good grasp on things and I'm not really sure what I can contribute aside from just stray thoughts as they come to me. Mafia... is a tricky game!
> 
> I really wanna believe VM/Tofu are town for reasons. I guess when more flips come to light, I should revisit my Roster List tomorrow?
Click to expand...

Okay, thanks, anything you can do is good! Are those reasons something you can talk about? Do you have any other stray thoughts?


----------



## Trebek

Butterfree said:


> ultimately, if RNP is mafia and we don't lynch him now, his roleblocking could stop the vig from getting him tonight, while Herbe is more likely to be safely vigged?


this is my pragmatic reason for voting rnp as well


----------



## Bluwiikoon

mewtini said:


> Bluwiikoon said:
> 
> 
> 
> I really wanna believe VM/Tofu are town for reasons
> 
> 
> 
> if you can - what are the reasons rq?
Click to expand...

If one of them is vig, the other's surely gotta be town since they did the coded role reveals! It's not impossible for them to be lying to the other, but they've been pretty upfront with how difficult dishonesty would be in a shared physical space.


----------



## Tangrowth

kyeugh said:


> M Plus 7 said:
> 
> 
> 
> *MP7 vibes-based reads list*
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler
> 
> 
> 
> Moderate to strong town
> Butterfree
> Emmy
> mewtini
> 
> Slight to moderate town
> Keldeo
> koko
> kyuegh
> rari
> 
> Upper POE
> Herbe
> Mist
> Tofu
> Trebek
> VM
> 
> Lower POE
> Blu
> RNP
> 
> 
> 
> Alphabetical within tiers.
> 
> @Keldeo
> 
> 
> 
> can you explain your koko read a bit or link me to a post where you did? sorry if you've already explained this and i'm forgetting
Click to expand...

Oh no worries! I'm sort of in ever-replacement mode based on my schedule, lol. I really liked koko's train of thought earlier today with respect to Herbe and RNP; even though I didn't necessarily agree with it, I think it was a uniquely solvey way of looking at it.

I seem to remember liking another one of their posts earlier in the game for a similar reason, but I can't recall lmao.


----------



## Keldeo

Spoiler: silly read



If we are all Jellicles, why is Gus The Theater Cat reminiscing on his former Jellicle days





Butterfree said:


> So, hmm. I kiiiind of want to vote Herbe, because like I said I'm still side-eyeing him for the same reasons as yesterday. I'm starting to think maybe we just have a very, very bussy mafia, and they hoped to gain Herbe towncred by letting the wagons be mostly even and then letting Ultracool die?
> 
> On the other hand, for all the mechanical reasons outlined previously, RNP is pretty suspect, and also the sudden move onto Herbe a little while back was kind of huh...?
> 
> Ngggh. I think I agree with the previously provided reasoning that ultimately, if RNP is mafia and we don't lynch him now, his roleblocking could stop the vig from getting him tonight, while Herbe is more likely to be safely vigged? *RNP*


Hey Butterfree! I think I agree about the vig safety thing. Can you talk to me more about what you think is going on in a Herbe/Ultracool partners world, or any other reads you think are worth mentioning?


----------



## Vipera Magnifica

If there's a mafia roleblocker that isn't RNP, I'm gonna vig Jack


----------



## kyeugh




----------



## mewtini

Vipera Magnifica said:


> If there's a mafia roleblocker that isn't RNP, I'm gonna vig Jack


me rn

also we have 15 minutes left. why


----------



## Tangrowth

Keldeo said:


> M Plus 7 said:
> 
> 
> 
> *MP7 vibes-based reads list*
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler
> 
> 
> 
> Moderate to strong town
> Butterfree
> Emmy
> mewtini
> 
> Slight to moderate town
> Keldeo
> koko
> kyuegh
> rari
> 
> Upper POE
> Herbe
> Mist
> Tofu
> Trebek
> VM
> 
> Lower POE
> Blu
> RNP
> 
> 
> 
> Alphabetical within tiers.
> 
> @Keldeo
> 
> 
> 
> Can you explain about me, koko, and Tofu/VM being where you put them? What do you think of the earlier Blu/RNP not w/w read for Blu not seeming to understand about the jailer, I don't remember if you said?
Click to expand...

Spoke to koko just now... Tofu and VM are perhaps my two biggest behavioral ???'s right now, so I guess I should actually ISO them with higher priority. They're mostly just because I don't have any reason to town read them in that way.

I liked your logic. I could still see a w/w pairing, but I think w/v is pretty plausible.

What's your reads list right now? Should I be considering anything that you think I may have missed?


----------



## Tangrowth

Keldeo said:


> Oh actually I think that post Tofu made a couple minutes ago about not understanding why town jailkeeper RNP would vote Emmy actually makes her and RNP probably not mafia together, either - both because of the pressing on RNP and because of the confusion about the jailkeeper role.


Oh, that's a good point!


----------



## Keldeo

M Plus 7 said:


> I liked your logic. I could still see a w/w pairing, but I think w/v is pretty plausible.


Are you "fair enough"ing me


----------



## rari_teh

Bluwiikoon said:


> they've been pretty upfront with how difficult dishonesty would be in a shared physical space


fwiw i once rolled my mother in secret santa and she didn’t ever suspect i had picked her
difficult, yes. impossible, no way


----------



## kyeugh

rari_teh said:


> Bluwiikoon said:
> 
> 
> 
> they've been pretty upfront with how difficult dishonesty would be in a shared physical space
> 
> 
> 
> fwiw i once rolled my mother in secret santa and she didn’t ever suspect i had picked her
> difficult, yes. impossible, no way
Click to expand...

*santa*


----------



## Bluwiikoon

Keldeo said:


> Do you have any other stray thoughts?



RNP intimidates me 
I'm nervous about MP7's scumlean on me considering I am literally just town. It's good to analyse everybody you can, but I'm feeling a bit singled-out!
Am I the only surviving townie who [redacted] because that sure doesn't do me any favours


----------



## mewtini

uh fwiw if rnp is a wolf and was just lying about jailkeeper/other mafia got confused it might not rule out some of those w/w pairings right? (i talked about this last night and at first thought it still did, but then i went back on it)


----------



## Keldeo

I feel like I keep feeling worse about MP7 when they aren't here and then feel good about their posts as they're making them. It'd probably be disrespecting their mafia game to say that their posts here are like, superbly towny, but hrrgh tone good


----------



## mewtini

Bluwiikoon said:


> Am I the only surviving townie who [redacted] because that sure doesn't do me any favours


wait what


----------



## Trebek

blu depending on what [lmao] is i might agree


----------



## Tangrowth

Keldeo said:


> M Plus 7 said:
> 
> 
> 
> I liked your logic. I could still see a w/w pairing, but I think w/v is pretty plausible.
> 
> 
> 
> Are you "fair enough"ing me
Click to expand...

LMAO, nah, I think your logic makes the most sense.


----------



## Bluwiikoon

Basically I have no way of mech clearing myself


----------



## Butterfree

Keldeo said:


> Spoiler: silly read
> 
> 
> 
> If we are all Jellicles, why is Gus The Theater Cat reminiscing on his former Jellicle days
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Butterfree said:
> 
> 
> 
> So, hmm. I kiiiind of want to vote Herbe, because like I said I'm still side-eyeing him for the same reasons as yesterday. I'm starting to think maybe we just have a very, very bussy mafia, and they hoped to gain Herbe towncred by letting the wagons be mostly even and then letting Ultracool die?
> 
> On the other hand, for all the mechanical reasons outlined previously, RNP is pretty suspect, and also the sudden move onto Herbe a little while back was kind of huh...?
> 
> Ngggh. I think I agree with the previously provided reasoning that ultimately, if RNP is mafia and we don't lynch him now, his roleblocking could stop the vig from getting him tonight, while Herbe is more likely to be safely vigged? *RNP*
> 
> 
> 
> Hey Butterfree! I think I agree about the vig safety thing. Can you talk to me more about what you think is going on in a Herbe/Ultracool partners world, or any other reads you think are worth mentioning?
Click to expand...

Bluwii ISO left me hopelessly confused. He just feels so towny and genuine. Maybe I'm wrong and being duped, but.

If Herbe/Ultracool are partners, I'm imagining a mafia that's playing the long game, very deliberately trying to set themselves up so that the wagon analysis leaves them spotless and gives them the cred to be trusted to control discussion from there. Would fit well with mafia in the towncore, which is something I think we all kind of suspect anyway...? I've had no time to reread more and figure out who that could be.


----------



## mewtini

ohh.


----------



## Tangrowth

Bluwiikoon said:


> Keldeo said:
> 
> 
> 
> Do you have any other stray thoughts?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RNP intimidates me
> I'm nervous about MP7's scumlean on me considering I am literally just town. It's good to analyse everybody you can, but I'm feeling a bit singled-out!
> Am I the only surviving townie who [redacted] because that sure doesn't do me any favours
Click to expand...

I do apologize if you feel I've put undue attention on you, ideally I would want to ISO everyone I can right now but I haven't gotten around to it. Did you have any questions for me about it?


----------



## kyeugh

wow what the fuck?


----------



## Tofu

oh fine *rnp*


----------



## Tangrowth

Keldeo said:


> I feel like I keep feeling worse about MP7 when they aren't here and then feel good about their posts as they're making them. It'd probably be disrespecting their mafia game to say that their posts here are like, superbly towny, but hrrgh tone good


Haha, it's funny you say that because it's how I was reading you in the 9er, but then again it's how I was reading everyone in that game, lmao. ZOMG.


----------



## Trebek

kyeugh said:


> View attachment 622
> wow what the fuck?


----------



## Keldeo

M Plus 7 said:


> What's your reads list right now? Should I be considering anything that you think I may have missed?


No order within tiers, something like

Keldeo: Keldeo
clear: Butterfree, IndigoEmmy, mewtini
okay mewtini + good thoughts otherwise: rari, kyeugh
good: kokorico
uh sure fair enough: M Plus 7, Tofu, Vipera Magnifica, Trebek (probably multiple mafia in here?? because I'm way more confident in my higher tiers)
hmm: Mist, Blu
imo exactly 1 mafia in: Herbe, RNP

Would just like to see more from you in general I guess but not sure what's possible with 8 minutes left haha


----------



## Trebek

Trebek said:


> kyeugh said:
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 622
> wow what the fuck?
Click to expand...

rip the image i guess


----------



## mewtini

god that is huge.
anything else we need to figure out because time sure is a-wastin D:


----------



## Tangrowth

Keldeo said:


> M Plus 7 said:
> 
> 
> 
> What's your reads list right now? Should I be considering anything that you think I may have missed?
> 
> 
> 
> No order within tiers, something like
> 
> Keldeo: Keldeo
> clear: Butterfree, IndigoEmmy, mewtini
> okay mewtini + good thoughts otherwise: rari, kyeugh
> good: kokorico
> uh sure fair enough: M Plus 7, Tofu, Vipera Magnifica, Trebek (probably multiple mafia in here?? because I'm way more confident in my higher tiers)
> hmm: Mist, Blu
> imo exactly 1 mafia in: Herbe, RNP
> 
> Would just like to see more from you in general I guess but not sure what's possible with 8 minutes left haha
Click to expand...

Cool, thanks man!


----------



## Trebek

mewtini said:


> god that is huge.
> anything else we need to figure out because time sure is a-wastin D:


mobile D:


----------



## Tangrowth

I'd rather stay on RNP but the wagons being what they are seems right.


----------



## Keldeo

mewtini said:


> god that is huge.
> anything else we need to figure out because time sure is a-wastin D:


I am nervous, but Blu's hamster video makes me feel at peace


----------



## Vipera Magnifica

Tofu said:


> oh fine *rnp*


If rnp flips green and you get lynched because of this I am going to laugh extremely hard


----------



## Trebek

nervous and paranoid, but have not had any earth shattering revelations that would move me off rnp


----------



## Tangrowth

Trebek said:


> nervous and paranoid, but have not had any earth shattering revelations that would move me off rnp


Yeah, mood.


----------



## kyeugh

rinp (rip rnp)
rip ronp.

btw if rnp is town _do_ we think it's likely the mafia have another roleblocker? i kind of don't know what to expect as far as mafia prs go


----------



## mewtini

do we really get a red flip out of this
i know this was said with ultracool but D:
i guess it doesn't matter now


----------



## rari_teh

kyeugh said:


> rinp (rip rnp)
> rip ronp.
> 
> btw if rnp is town _do_ we think it's likely the mafia have another roleblocker? i kind of don't know what to expect as far as mafia prs go


we have no idea tbh


----------



## Keldeo

Oh to be a hamster curled into a ball...


----------



## mewtini

if rnp flips red i'll LOL at the mafia being incredibly bussy in earlygame


----------



## Bluwiikoon

My role is *The Hamster*, my alignment is *curl into ball*.


----------



## rari_teh

goodbye, cruel world
rnp is flipping green in one minute from now and we’re all gonna get mad at ourselves


----------



## Vipera Magnifica

this past 15 minutes has felt like an hour tbh


----------



## Trebek

rari_teh said:


> kyeugh said:
> 
> 
> 
> rinp (rip rnp)
> rip ronp.
> 
> btw if rnp is town _do_ we think it's likely the mafia have another roleblocker? i kind of don't know what to expect as far as mafia prs go
> 
> 
> 
> we have no idea tbh
Click to expand...

probably yes? i think if town has a roleblocker maf should as well, but i don’t think it should go the other way


----------



## kyeugh

mewtini said:


> if rnp flips red i'll LOL at the mafia being incredibly bussy in earlygame


 tbf it's not like attempts weren't made to move the vote off him
if he's red they decided to bus because it was there best remaining option, right


----------



## mewtini

well it is 2:59
good luck and good night to all, but especially to my mason rari :)


----------



## Keldeo

kyeugh said:


> rinp (rip rnp)
> rip ronp.
> 
> btw if rnp is town _do_ we think it's likely the mafia have another roleblocker? i kind of don't know what to expect as far as mafia prs go


Man I'm aaa if he really is town here

I think that would be plausible? Like, then there would be multiple "strong" town power roles and it'd be weird if they didn't have a way to get past those somehow


----------



## kyeugh

Vipera Magnifica said:


> this past 15 minutes has felt like an hour tbh


 i've just been waiting for this to end so i can play planet zoo tbh.


----------



## Keldeo

kyeugh said:


> mewtini said:
> 
> 
> 
> if rnp flips red i'll LOL at the mafia being incredibly bussy in earlygame
> 
> 
> 
> tbf it's not like attempts weren't made to move the vote off him
> if he's red they decided to bus because it was there best remaining option, right
Click to expand...

I feel like there are definitely mafia on RNP right now regardless of his alignment  t b h


----------



## Trebek

mewtini said:


> well it is 2:59
> good luck and good night to all, but especially to my mason rari :)


i knew it


----------



## RedneckPhoenix

i'm not gonna vote for herb to save my own ass.


----------



## qenya

mewtini said:


> good luck and good night to all, but especially to my mason rari :)


wait is this a joke or


----------



## rari_teh

good night to all town!
good night mason! <3


----------



## kyeugh

Keldeo said:


> kyeugh said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> mewtini said:
> 
> 
> 
> if rnp flips red i'll LOL at the mafia being incredibly bussy in earlygame
> 
> 
> 
> tbf it's not like attempts weren't made to move the vote off him
> if he's red they decided to bus because it was there best remaining option, right
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I feel like there are definitely mafia on RNP right now regardless of his alignment  t b h
Click to expand...

same, for sure.


----------



## Keldeo

RedneckPhoenix said:


> i'm not gonna vote for herb to save my own ass.


----------



## JackPK

*The day phase is now over. Vote totals in a moment.*


----------



## Tangrowth

This was fun, glgl, hope to talk to you all again soon!


----------



## Trebek

kokorico said:


> mewtini said:
> 
> 
> 
> good luck and good night to all, but especially to my mason rari :)
> 
> 
> 
> wait is this a joke or
Click to expand...

don’t think so, been thinking about this for a while


----------



## kyeugh

mewtini said:


> well it is 2:59
> good luck and good night to all, but especially to my mason rari :)


----------



## RedneckPhoenix

you're all simultaneously too paranoid and not paranoid enough, 2/10


----------



## rari_teh

good night rnp
i will avenge you tomorrow if i am not being a complete clown


----------



## RedneckPhoenix

no you won't mafia's gonna wagon h a r d


----------



## kyeugh

mafia's gonna wagon


----------



## RedneckPhoenix

town loses this matchup gg


----------



## Trebek

smh is my tinfoil legit


----------



## RedneckPhoenix

farewell all! i wish i could say it's been a pleasure but i hate lying.


----------



## RedneckPhoenix

i'm coming for you in hell, stryke


----------



## rari_teh

Trebek said:


> smh is my tinfoil legit


’tis be the question in everybody’s heads


----------



## kyeugh

simply don't get lynched next time tbh


----------



## Keldeo

Are we supposed to be able to post before Jack posts the votecounts/flip? I thought it was discouraged.


----------



## Vipera Magnifica

kyeugh said:


> simply don't get lynched next time tbh


rip to keith but im different


----------



## rari_teh

Keldeo said:


> Are we supposed to be able to post before Jack posts the votecounts/flip? I thought it was discouraged.


votecounts are 10 min before flip
i think between EoD and votecount is ok…?


----------



## Bluwiikoon

No more votes though or Jack will remove your skeleton


----------



## Trebek

rari_teh said:


> Keldeo said:
> 
> 
> 
> Are we supposed to be able to post before Jack posts the votecounts/flip? I thought it was discouraged.
> 
> 
> 
> votecounts are 10 min before flip
> i think between EoD and votecount is ok…?
Click to expand...

i was under the assumption that memery is chill


----------



## JackPK

*Active votes*
Mist1422 votes Vipera Magnifica (#2779)
Bluwiikoon votes RedneckPhoenix (#2946)
kyeugh votes RedneckPhoenix (#3075)
IndigoEmmy votes RedneckPhoenix (#3099)
Herbe votes M Plus 7 (#3236)
kokorico votes Herbe (#3339)
RedneckPhoenix votes kyeugh (#3411)
M Plus 7 votes RedneckPhoenix (#3570)
Keldeo votes RedneckPhoenix (#3586)
Vipera Magnifica votes RedneckPhoenix (#3590)
rari_teh votes Herbe (#3594)
Trebek votes RedneckPhoenix (#3595)
mewtini votes RedneckPhoenix (#3609)
Butterfree votes RedneckPhoenix (#3661)
Tofu votes RedneckPhoenix (#3687)



Spoiler: Full vote history



Active votes bolded. Invalid votes stricken through.

Herbe votes Keldeo (#2539)
mewtini votes Keldeo (#2541)
*Mist1422 votes Vipera Magnifica (#2779)*
rari_teh votes Vipera Magnifica (#2785)
Keldeo votes M Plus 7 (#2899)
RedneckPhoenix votes IndigoEmmy (#2911)
Vipera Magnifica votes RedneckPhoenix (#2931)
kyeugh votes RedneckPhoenix (#2932)
Tofu votes RedneckPhoenix (#2934)
mewtini votes RedneckPhoenix (#2936)
mewtini votes kyeugh (#2939)
Trebek votes RedneckPhoenix (#2940)
mewtini votes RedneckPhoenix (#2941)
*Bluwiikoon votes RedneckPhoenix (#2946)*
Trebek votes Santa (#2948)
rari_teh votes Keldeo (#2951)
Trebek votes RedneckPhoenix (#2965)
kyeugh unvotes (#2983)
*kyeugh votes RedneckPhoenix (#3075)
IndigoEmmy votes RedneckPhoenix (#3099)*
rari_teh unvotes (#3141)
rari_teh votes RedneckPhoenix (#3172)
Herbe votes RedneckPhoenix (#3175)
Herbe unvotes (#3220)
mewtini unvotes (#3222)
rari_teh unvotes (#3225)
Trebek unvotes (#3233)
*Herbe votes M Plus 7 (#3236)*
mewtini votes RedneckPhoenix (#3297)
RedneckPhoenix votes kyeugh (#3311)
rari_teh unvotes (#3333)
*kokorico votes Herbe (#3339)
RedneckPhoenix votes kyeugh (#3411)*
Tofu unvotes (#3460)
Vipera Magnifica unvotes (#3495)
Keldeo unvotes (#3531)
Keldeo votes Herbe (#3544)
rari_teh votes Tofu (#3558)
mewtini votes Herbe (#3567)
*M Plus 7 votes RedneckPhoenix (#3570)*
rari_teh votes Herbe (#3572)
Trebek votes Herbe (#3573)
Vipera Magnifica votes Herbe (#3575)
rari_teh unvotes (#3577)
*Keldeo votes RedneckPhoenix (#3586)
Vipera Magnifica votes RedneckPhoenix (#3590)
rari_teh votes Herbe (#3594)
Trebek votes RedneckPhoenix (#3595)
mewtini votes RedneckPhoenix (#3609)
Butterfree votes RedneckPhoenix (#3661)*
kyeugh votes Santa (#3675)
*Tofu votes RedneckPhoenix (#3687)*



*Vote totals*
RedneckPhoenix (10) (Bluwiikoon, kyeugh, IndigoEmmy, M Plus 7, Keldeo, Vipera Magnifica, Trebek, mewtini, Butterfree, Tofu)
Herbe (2) (kokorico, rari_teh)
Vipera Magnifica (1) (Mist1422)
M Plus 7 (1) (Herbe)
kyeugh (1) (RedneckPhoenix)

If any votes are wrong or missing, you have *10 minutes* to alert me to them.


----------



## JackPK

ftr, limited memery is chill but I'd appreciate it if y'all didn't fill up close to a whole page when you're not supposed to be talking lol


----------



## RedneckPhoenix

drew a picture of a clown and was gonna post it as an insult but i can't figure out how to post images


----------



## RedneckPhoenix

i'll stop talking now


----------



## JackPK

Today the votes coalesce sooner and more steadily than on previous days, with suspicion coalescing around two cats. Finally, the votes stack up nearly unanimously against one of the suspects, and the cats toss *RedneckPhoenix* into the time-out basement. However, a thorough search uncovers nothing suspicious on his person.

*RedneckPhoenix is dead. He was not scum.

Night Three has begun. Please submit your night actions.

Day Four will begin June 4 at 3pm EST/7pm UTC.*



Spoiler: Pings and flips



@Butterfree
@Mawile - killed N0, *not scum*
@Keldeo
@Herbe
@kyeugh
@mewtini
@Seshas - killed N1, *not scum*
@IndigoEmmy
@kokorico
@I liek Squirtles - killed N2, *not scum*
@Trebek
@rari_teh
@myuma - killed N1, *not scum*
@M Plus 7
@Tofu
@Bluwiikoon
@Stryke - yeeted D1, *not scum*
@Vipera Magnifica
@RedneckPhoenix - yeeted D1, *not scum*
@Mist1422
@Mr. Ultracool - yeeted D2, *scum*





Spoiler: Game summary so far



*N0
Mawile* was killed. He was *not scum*.

*D1
Stryke* was yeeted. He was *not scum*.

*N1
Seshas* was killed. They were *not scum*.
*myuma* was killed. She was *not scum*.

*D2
Mr. Ultracool* was yeeted. He was *scum*.

*N2
I liek Squirtles* was killed. He was *not scum*.

*D3
RedneckPhoenix* was yeeted. He was *not scum*.


----------



## rari_teh




----------



## JackPK

whoops copy-paste error

*Day Four will begin June 14 at 3pm EST/7pm UTC.*


----------



## Vipera Magnifica

Jack wtf I didn't know you were introducing a time-travel mechanic


----------



## kyeugh




----------



## JackPK

Morning breaks, and the cats find their number whittled down alarmingly. No less than three Jellicles are missing, and though two are found down in the time-out basement, there is no sign that any of them were nefarious or threatening in any way.

*IndigoEmmy is dead. She was not scum.
Herbe is dead. He was not scum.
Tofu is dead. She was not scum.

Day Four has begun. You may now post and discuss who to lynch today. Abstaining (no lynching) is allowed. Night Four will begin June 17 at 3pm EST/7pm UTC.*



Spoiler: Pings and flips



@Butterfree
@Mawile - killed N0, *not scum*
@Keldeo
@Herbe - killed N3, *not scum*
@kyeugh
@mewtini
@Seshas - killed N1, *not scum*
@IndigoEmmy - killed N3, *not scum*
@kokorico
@I liek Squirtles - killed N2, *not scum*
@Trebek
@rari_teh
@myuma - killed N1, *not scum*
@M Plus 7
@Tofu - killed N3, *not scum*
@Bluwiikoon
@Stryke - yeeted D1, *not scum*
@Vipera Magnifica
@RedneckPhoenix - yeeted D1, *not scum*
@Mist1422
@Mr. Ultracool - yeeted D2, *scum*





Spoiler: Game summary so far



*N0
Mawile* was killed. He was *not scum*.

*D1
Stryke* was yeeted. He was *not scum*.

*N1
Seshas* was killed. They were *not scum*.
*myuma* was killed. She was *not scum*.

*D2
Mr. Ultracool* was yeeted. He was *scum*.

*N2
I liek Squirtles* was killed. He was *not scum*.

*D3
RedneckPhoenix* was yeeted. He was *not scum*.

*D4
IndigoEmmy was killed. She was not scum.
Herbe was killed. He was not scum.
Tofu was killed. She was not scum.*


----------



## Bluwiikoon

Yo what up


----------



## mewtini

oh my fucking god


----------



## Bluwiikoon

Jesus christ


----------



## Bluwiikoon

Ok fam lemme uhhhh grab the Roster list


----------



## Vipera Magnifica

well, gg :/


----------



## mewtini

wait wtf. so did town just genuinely have insane healing power? dude F for the rnp/herbe theory


----------



## qenya

well, that's... not ideal

so, uh, some rethinking required about how many doctors there are!? if herbe was not in fact lying


----------



## qenya

also, wait there are TWO vigs now? what the hell is this setup


----------



## Bluwiikoon

Roster a la Day 4



Spoiler



*Butterfree
mewtini
Mawile - killed N0, not scum*
*Stryke - lynched D1, not scum
Seshas - killed N1, not scum
myuma - killed N1, not scum*
*I liek Squirtles - killed N2, not scum
RedneckPhoenix - lynched D3, not scum
IndigoEmmy - killed N3, not scum
Herbe - killed N3, not scum
Tofu - killed N3, not scum

Mr. Ultracool - lynched D2, scum 

Claims:* 
kyeugh - Part of mysterious ot3
rari_teh - Part of mysterious ot3
Vipera Magnifica - vig

*Unknown:*
Keldeo
kokorico
Trebek
M Plus 7
Bluwiikoon
Mist1422



Knowing that I'm town, I therefore vote to get the ball rolling with *Keldeo*.


----------



## Bluwiikoon

kokorico said:


> also, wait there are TWO vigs now? what the hell is this setup


I assumed they shot at Herbe and herbe was lovers with someone :(


----------



## mewtini

Bluwiikoon said:


> I assumed they shot at Herbe and herbe was lovers with someone :(


that's a good thought, though i'm wondering if the flavor would have been a bit different if that were the case?


----------



## Vipera Magnifica

Tofu was Lynchproof


----------



## mewtini

but on the other hand
> two vigs


----------



## Bluwiikoon

Hmm, it could also have been fishing brothers?


----------



## Novae

I'm not sure if there's majority but this is quite possibly a day off from a scum win if we execute the wrong person so let's slow down

Massclaiming is the right play here yes


----------



## mewtini

Vipera Magnifica said:


> Tofu was Lynchproof


ohhhh my god is that why she said we'd regret voting her up for lynch.


----------



## Novae

Bluwiikoon said:


> Hmm, it could also have been fishing brothers?


ILS was checked as a doctor and RNP claimed jailer so no


----------



## Vipera Magnifica

mewtini said:


> Vipera Magnifica said:
> 
> 
> 
> Tofu was Lynchproof
> 
> 
> 
> ohhhh my god is that why she said we'd regret voting her up for lynch.
Click to expand...

She said it would be awkward, which it would lol


----------



## Bluwiikoon

Mewtini, did you protect someone last Night?


----------



## Novae

PRs:
Indigo
Herbe
Butterfree
Butterfree's partner
mewtini
ILS
Tofu
VM
RNP


----------



## mewtini

Bluwiikoon said:


> Mewtini, did you protect someone last Night?


i did not


----------



## Novae

Butterfree should claim who their partner is that gets a clear I believe


----------



## Bluwiikoon

Should I claim?


----------



## rari_teh

welp, I was going to make my case on how RNP could be right and Emmy could be the don, but I guess that’s out of the window now :T

also three kills what the fuck
at least that explains the abundance of doctors


----------



## Novae

mewtini said:


> Bluwiikoon said:
> 
> 
> 
> Mewtini, did you protect someone last Night?
> 
> 
> 
> i did not
Click to expand...

are you still maintaining your mech clears on kyeugh and rari


----------



## Trebek

jesus christ wtf


----------



## Novae

My intuition has been pretty on point all game and it's telling me to kill keldeo tbh


----------



## Trebek

frankly part of me has had a tinfoilhat all game that the mafia was like “yo what if we posed as masons” so idk who to trust anymore


----------



## Trebek

Trebek said:


> frankly part of me has had a tinfoilhat all game that the mafia was like “yo what if we posed as masons” so idk who to trust anymore


although emmy flipping green sorta memes on this theory


----------



## mewtini

Mist1422 said:


> are you still maintaining your mech clears on kyeugh and rari


on rari yeah, i am paranoid-wondering about skylar atm because i have pretty good reason to think she's town but it's possible she's not



Trebek said:


> frankly part of me has had a tinfoilhat all game that the mafia was like “yo what if we posed as masons” so idk who to trust anymore


-_-


----------



## qenya

Mist1422 said:


> PRs:
> Indigo
> Herbe
> Butterfree
> Butterfree's partner
> mewtini
> ILS
> Tofu
> VM
> RNP


so that means there is one remaining unclaimed town PR, yes? Which presumably is some sort of KP since Tofu being lynchproof and Herbe being a rolecop suggests that they weren't _also_ lovers


----------



## Novae

it's exlo so I feel like mewtini should probably be fullclaiming?


----------



## qenya

Trebek said:


> Trebek said:
> 
> 
> 
> frankly part of me has had a tinfoilhat all game that the mafia was like “yo what if we posed as masons” so idk who to trust anymore
> 
> 
> 
> although emmy flipping green sorta memes on this theory
Click to expand...

unless mewtini is a godfather


----------



## Trebek

mewtini said:


> -_-


hey i still trust you :p am also paranoid wondering about skylar but that’s not something that necessarily needs to be addressed today


----------



## Novae

kokorico said:


> Mist1422 said:
> 
> 
> 
> PRs:
> Indigo
> Herbe
> Butterfree
> Butterfree's partner
> mewtini
> ILS
> Tofu
> VM
> RNP
> 
> 
> 
> so that means there is one remaining unclaimed town PR, yes? Which presumably is some sort of KP since Tofu being lynchproof and Herbe being a rolecop suggests that they weren't _also_ lovers
Click to expand...

maybe

I'm thinking about something insane like an n2 kill getting delayed or butterfree's partner being like seshas and bfree holding onto the kill until now but like...none of those are good targets


----------



## mewtini

should i claim fr?


----------



## Bluwiikoon

My government-assigned cat is Cassandra, my power is Vanilla, my alignment is town.


----------



## Novae

mewtini said:


> should i claim fr?


I vote yes


----------



## Bluwiikoon

What kind of lame power is heart, anyway!?


----------



## Trebek

Bluwiikoon said:


> What kind of lame power is heart, anyway!?


infinite love reaccs on every post


----------



## Novae

Bluwiikoon said:


> My government-assigned cat is Cassandra, my power is Vanilla, my alignment is town.


I am coricopat, also vanilla, also town, but probably not spelled correctly


----------



## Trebek

ok yeah no reason to not claim at this point bc it’s down to the wire 

Syllabub, vanilla town (my favorite ice cream flavor! jk it’s not)


----------



## mewtini

mm. ok.
i'm mr. mistoffelees, the jack of all trades because he's figuring out his nascent magic skills or w/e


----------



## Trebek

hmmm do we believe in 3 vtown claims

rip me claiming 3rd tho


----------



## Vipera Magnifica

I shot three townies, I give the fuck up on this game


----------



## Bluwiikoon

Butterfreeeeeee we need your lore powers!!!


----------



## mewtini

Vipera Magnifica said:


> I shot three townies, I give the fuck up on this game


VM did you also target myuma?


----------



## Trebek

Vipera Magnifica said:


> I shot three townies, I give the fuck up on this game


i sad reacted but *:(* for emphases


----------



## Novae

Trebek said:


> hmmm do we believe in 3 vtown claims
> 
> rip me claiming 3rd tho


if I can count there's confirmed to be 5 vanilla total this game

but no scum are probably going to be claiming VT here


----------



## Trebek

Mist1422 said:


> Trebek said:
> 
> 
> 
> hmmm do we believe in 3 vtown claims
> 
> rip me claiming 3rd tho
> 
> 
> 
> if I can count there's confirmed to be 5 vanilla total this game
> 
> but no scum are probably going to be claiming VT here
Click to expand...

ohhh for some reason i thought it was 4 with stryke being one

rip counting


----------



## mewtini

Trebek said:


> ohhh for some reason i thought it was 4 with stryke being one


mist meant by game setup i think. 10 PRs, 5 vanillas


----------



## Trebek

mewtini said:


> Trebek said:
> 
> 
> 
> ohhh for some reason i thought it was 4 with stryke being one
> 
> 
> 
> mist meant by game setup i think. 10 PRs, 5 vanillas
Click to expand...

yeah for some reason i thought game setup was 4


----------



## qenya

Mist1422 said:


> PRs:
> Indigo
> Herbe
> Butterfree
> Butterfree's partner
> mewtini
> ILS
> Tofu
> VM
> RNP


hold on a moment - mewtini claimed masons with rari, right? So that means rari is the tenth PR

so where the hell did the extra kill come from


----------



## Vipera Magnifica

mewtini said:


> Vipera Magnifica said:
> 
> 
> 
> I shot three townies, I give the fuck up on this game
> 
> 
> 
> VM did you also target myuma?
Click to expand...

ye


----------



## mewtini

kokorico said:


> so where the hell did the extra kill come from


me!


----------



## Trebek

mewtini said:


> kokorico said:
> 
> 
> 
> so where the hell did the extra kill come from
> 
> 
> 
> me!
Click to expand...

spicy


----------



## Novae

okay I'm confused

mewtini, what is your mech clear on rari
VM and mewtini, who did you both shoot


----------



## rari_teh

okay, with my mason’s blessing, i am ready to claim
i am a limited neighbourizer. every Night i can choose somebody to open daychat with for a Day.
Days 1, 3 and 4 i picked mewtini. Day 2 i picked skylar.
I am 100% sure that mewtini is town. I am about 90% sure that skylar is town.


----------



## mewtini

yeah. so i can rotate between heal/track/vig (but i have to use all three before repeating). i tracked seshas n0 (she didn't do anything, so she's likely a VT - or just had a oneshot power?), vigged myuma n1 with VM i guess, and healed emmy n3. i was responsible for the tofu kill though heh :T had a bad feeling because she namedropped JoaT in one of her posts so i started tinfoiling herbe/tofu, esp off of their iso, but i guess she just figured me out


----------



## qenya

oh, as for claims, I'm the Maitre D', also vanilla town


----------



## Bluwiikoon

If the max game size was 25, I guess all the vanilla roles got unique cats?  Maybe?


----------



## Trebek

mewtini said:


> (she didn't do anything, so she's likely a VT - or just had a oneshot power?)


if she was a VT, then we are likely looking at false VT claims rn


----------



## mewtini

rari_teh said:


> i am a limited neighbourizer. every Night i can choose somebody to open daychat with for a Day.
> Days 1, 3 and 4 i picked mewtini. Day 2 i picked skylar.
> I am 100% sure that mewtini is town. I am about 90% sure that skylar is town.


and i'll corroborate this claim :> not Technically masons, but this is why there's been a rari/me/skylar ring


----------



## Bluwiikoon

I was vanilla town before it was cool >:-(


----------



## Vipera Magnifica

Mist1422 said:


> okay I'm confused
> 
> mewtini, what is your mech clear on rari
> VM and mewtini, who did you both shoot


I shot Herbe


----------



## Trebek

yo i just learned that if u turn ur phone sideways signatures show up 

anyways


----------



## mewtini

mewtini said:


> i tracked seshas n0 (she didn't do anything, so she's likely a VT - or just had a oneshot power?)


actually i should specifically mention that i got 'no result' so maybe i just got blocked or something and she wasn't just VT
also the events of last night i think mean that there's no roleblocker? emmy died and my kill went through, unless something weird happened for someone else


----------



## qenya

so that's all the town PRs accounted for

which means presumably Butterfree's partner is one of Keldeo, M+7, kyeugh or Trebek

with the other 3 being VTs or mafia?


----------



## Bluwiikoon

Things sure look bleak right now :( However I do have more cute animal videos if anyone needs a cheering up!


----------



## rari_teh

which means that emmy was nightkilled, probably


----------



## qenya

kokorico said:


> so that's all the town PRs accounted for
> 
> which means presumably Butterfree's partner is one of Keldeo, M+7, kyeugh or Trebek
> 
> with the other 3 being VTs or mafia?


(disclaimer: struggling to update my spreadsheet in real time with all these claims, so sorry if I forgot someone)


----------



## Trebek

mewtini said:


> mewtini said:
> 
> 
> 
> i tracked seshas n0 (she didn't do anything, so she's likely a VT - or just had a oneshot power?)
> 
> 
> 
> actually i should specifically mention that i got 'no result' so maybe i just got blocked or something and she wasn't just VT
> also the events of last night i think mean that there's no roleblocker? emmy died and my kill went through, unless something weird happened for someone else
Click to expand...

there’s a chance mafia doubled down and killed+rbed emmy in case she got healed (since the vibe was that you couldn’t heal her again)


----------



## rari_teh

kokorico said:


> so that's all the town PRs accounted for
> 
> which means presumably Butterfree's partner is one of Keldeo, M+7, kyeugh or Trebek
> 
> with the other 3 being VTs or mafia?


not kyeugh


----------



## Trebek

kokorico said:


> kokorico said:
> 
> 
> 
> so that's all the town PRs accounted for
> 
> which means presumably Butterfree's partner is one of Keldeo, M+7, kyeugh or Trebek
> 
> with the other 3 being VTs or mafia?
> 
> 
> 
> (disclaimer: struggling to update my spreadsheet in real time with all these claims, so sorry if I forgot someone)
Click to expand...

i will hardclaim Not fishing partner, if that helps narrow it down


----------



## rari_teh

@Keldeo and @M Plus 7 please claim fishing brothers, whoever you are


----------



## Trebek

Trebek said:


> kokorico said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> kokorico said:
> 
> 
> 
> so that's all the town PRs accounted for
> 
> which means presumably Butterfree's partner is one of Keldeo, M+7, kyeugh or Trebek
> 
> with the other 3 being VTs or mafia?
> 
> 
> 
> (disclaimer: struggling to update my spreadsheet in real time with all these claims, so sorry if I forgot someone)
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> i will hardclaim Not fishing partner, if that helps narrow it down
Click to expand...

unless i’m like an amnesiac fisher and i don’t remember enjoying fishing? doubt it tho lmao


----------



## Bluwiikoon

Butterfreeeeeee!


----------



## qenya

Trebek said:


> kokorico said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> kokorico said:
> 
> 
> 
> so that's all the town PRs accounted for
> 
> which means presumably Butterfree's partner is one of Keldeo, M+7, kyeugh or Trebek
> 
> with the other 3 being VTs or mafia?
> 
> 
> 
> (disclaimer: struggling to update my spreadsheet in real time with all these claims, so sorry if I forgot someone)
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> i will hardclaim Not fishing partner, if that helps narrow it down
Click to expand...

catclaim?


----------



## rari_teh

ftr kyeugh also has a power role
which is


----------



## Bluwiikoon

Kyeugh is fish?


----------



## Trebek

Trebek said:


> ok yeah no reason to not claim at this point bc it’s down to the wire
> 
> Syllabub, vanilla town (my favorite ice cream flavor! jk it’s not)





kokorico said:


> Trebek said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> kokorico said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> kokorico said:
> 
> 
> 
> so that's all the town PRs accounted for
> 
> which means presumably Butterfree's partner is one of Keldeo, M+7, kyeugh or Trebek
> 
> with the other 3 being VTs or mafia?
> 
> 
> 
> (disclaimer: struggling to update my spreadsheet in real time with all these claims, so sorry if I forgot someone)
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> i will hardclaim Not fishing partner, if that helps narrow it down
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> catclaim?
Click to expand...


----------



## qenya

Trebek said:


> Trebek said:
> 
> 
> 
> ok yeah no reason to not claim at this point bc it’s down to the wire
> 
> Syllabub, vanilla town (my favorite ice cream flavor! jk it’s not)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> kokorico said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Trebek said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> kokorico said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> kokorico said:
> 
> 
> 
> so that's all the town PRs accounted for
> 
> which means presumably Butterfree's partner is one of Keldeo, M+7, kyeugh or Trebek
> 
> with the other 3 being VTs or mafia?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> (disclaimer: struggling to update my spreadsheet in real time with all these claims, so sorry if I forgot someone)
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> i will hardclaim Not fishing partner, if that helps narrow it down
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> catclaim?
> 
> Click to expand...
Click to expand...

Sorry! Missed that


----------



## rari_teh

Bluwiikoon said:


> Kyeugh is fish?





rari_teh said:


> not kyeugh


----------



## Bluwiikoon

Thank you! My brain somehow ejected that info


----------



## rari_teh

np lmao
it happens to everybody


----------



## mewtini

rari_teh said:


> ftr kyeugh also has a power role
> which is


yeah. so it's me, rari, skylar, VM, tofu, bfree, bfree's partner, herbe, emmy, rnp, ILS - that's 11 PRs lmao. stryke was probably VT, i want to say that myuma would have claimed if they weren't VT, and seshas probably didn't do anything n0


----------



## mewtini

mewtini said:


> stryke was probably VT,


er, definitely tbh


----------



## Trebek

mewtini said:


> mewtini said:
> 
> 
> 
> stryke was probably VT,
> 
> 
> 
> er, definitely tbh
Click to expand...

it’s probably safer to assume that he was tbh


----------



## rari_teh

mewtini said:


> rari_teh said:
> 
> 
> 
> ftr kyeugh also has a power role
> which is
> 
> 
> 
> yeah. so it's me, rari, skylar, VM, tofu, bfree, bfree's partner, herbe, emmy, rnp, ILS - that's 11 PRs lmao. stryke was probably VT, i want to say that myuma would have claimed if they weren't VT, and seshas probably didn't do anything n0
Click to expand...

someone is lying big time


----------



## mewtini

Trebek said:


> it’s probably safer to assume that he was tbh


he said as much :p


----------



## Trebek

mewtini said:


> Trebek said:
> 
> 
> 
> it’s probably safer to assume that he was tbh
> 
> 
> 
> he said as much :p
Click to expand...

for some reason i thought u were talking about seshas whoopsie lmao


active VT claims are me, blu, mist, koko


----------



## Bluwiikoon

So, peeping at the cast list on catsfandom dot wiki, are most of the wolves gonna be side-characters rather than main? I started trying to compile a list of cat claims but admittedly I haven't been the best at keeping track ^^;


----------



## Trebek

Trebek said:


> mewtini said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Trebek said:
> 
> 
> 
> it’s probably safer to assume that he was tbh
> 
> 
> 
> he said as much :p
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> for some reason i thought u were talking about seshas whoopsie lmao
> 
> 
> active VT claims are me, blu, mist, koko
Click to expand...

my priority list for how much i trust the claims rn is likely

me (lmao)
blu
koko
mist


----------



## mewtini

i don't think the VT claims are significantly less sus than the PR claims/unsure if that's how i'd think about it
someone in power role town is lying


----------



## mewtini

mewtini said:


> significantly less sus


*more. i must wait 7 seconds!


----------



## qenya

Bluwiikoon said:


> So, peeping at the cast list on catsfandom dot wiki, are most of the wolves gonna be side-characters rather than main? I started trying to compile a list of cat claims but admittedly I haven't been the best at keeping track ^^;


The main cast list has 14 characters and the setup was originally for 10 town + 4 wolves
I think it's a pretty safe bet that, like town, the wolf PRs have main characters and the goons have side-characters
Which means it's probably very easy for a goon to fakeclaim VT


----------



## Trebek

mewt and rari is your 90% on skylar from mechanics discussed in private chat? or chat vibes


----------



## Bluwiikoon

Marked myself as unknown alignment (grey) for the sake of fairness but uhhhh here's this! Pls add to it if you have input


----------



## rari_teh

Trebek said:


> active VT claims are me, blu, mist, koko


and stryke!


----------



## mewtini

Trebek said:


> mewt and rari is your 90% on skylar from mechanics discussed in private chat? or chat vibes


she claimed to rari and it's a towny role, but it could have been made up. the vibes were good/i've seen snippets of it too but i'm not going to defend her from scrutiny anymore - i just had enough reason to not want her to be talked about earlier on/have to claim


----------



## rari_teh

Trebek said:


> mewt and rari is your 90% on skylar from mechanics discussed in private chat? or chat vibes


chat, and thread, vibes
she could as well be lying as far as mechanics go tbqh


----------



## qenya

Bluwiikoon said:


> Marked myself as unknown alignment (grey) for the sake of fairness but uhhhh here's this! Pls add to it if you have input
> 
> View attachment 629
> View attachment 630


RNP claimed Gus, Herbe claimed Victoria, I claimed Maitre D'


----------



## Vipera Magnifica

please let skylar be mafia, it would be the only thing that'd make me feel better about this game


----------



## Trebek

mewtini said:


> Trebek said:
> 
> 
> 
> mewt and rari is your 90% on skylar from mechanics discussed in private chat? or chat vibes
> 
> 
> 
> she claimed to rari and it's a towny role, but it could have been made up. the vibes were good/i've seen snippets of it too but i'm not going to defend her from scrutiny anymore - i just had enough reason to not want her to be talked about earlier on/have to claim
Click to expand...




rari_teh said:


> Trebek said:
> 
> 
> 
> mewt and rari is your 90% on skylar from mechanics discussed in private chat? or chat vibes
> 
> 
> 
> chat, and thread, vibes
> she could as well be lying as far as mechanics go tbqh
Click to expand...

 thanks!

that’s probably something we can think about later, i bet we can find a safer lynch today that isnt as likely to backfire


----------



## mewtini

*locktown:* me, rari, bfree, bfree's partner, VM
*everyone else:* skylar, keldeo, trebek, mist, m+7, koko, blu


----------



## Bluwiikoon

I see Bustopher Jones and all I can think of is a cat with the power of bussing


----------



## Trebek

mewtini said:


> *locktown:* me, rari, bfree, bfree's partner, VM
> *everyone else:* skylar, keldeo, trebek, mist, m+7, koko, blu


and bfree’s partner is one of the “everyone else” right

oh boy


----------



## mewtini

mewtini said:


> *locktown:* me, rari, bfree, bfree's partner, VM
> *everyone else:* skylar, keldeo, trebek, mist, m+7, koko, blu


w the obvious caveat that idk who the partner is lmao


----------



## mewtini

ninjad tbh


----------



## Bluwiikoon

I've said it before and I'll say it again

_Butterfreeeeeeee!_


----------



## Trebek

bfree.png


----------



## Bluwiikoon

Does mafia only auto-win if they outpower us (2:1 ratio)?


----------



## mewtini

Bluwiikoon said:


> Does mafia only auto-win if they outpower us (2:1 ratio)?


yeah once they outnumber town i think?


----------



## Bluwiikoon

I am very scared if we don't lynch a wolf today I tell you hwat


----------



## mewtini

that's why we're going to buckle down and lynch a mfing wolf today!!! we got this


----------



## qenya

Bluwiikoon said:


> I am very scared if we don't lynch a wolf today I tell you hwat


...hell, with the number of people who died last Night I think it's actually MyLo, unless kyeugh's role is something protecty?


----------



## qenya

kokorico said:


> unless kyeugh's role is something protecty


(and town-aligned)


----------



## Bluwiikoon

What's a MyLo?


----------



## mewtini

Bluwiikoon said:


> What's a MyLo?


mislynch or lose


----------



## mewtini

mewtini said:


> mislynch **and* lose


----------



## Novae

so under the assumptions that bfree and her partner are both town and alive and none of the dead town are lying about being PRs that means that [mewtini/rari/skylar/VM] has one scum assuming no more PR claims happen


----------



## qenya

Bluwiikoon said:


> MyLo


"mislynch and lose", i.e., if we lynch a townie the wolves will win

actually I miscalculated, we can afford to lose a townie as long as VM kills a wolf next Night

(but let's not let it get that far, obviously)


----------



## Novae

so one of mewtini's clears on rari/skylar is bad most likely


----------



## Novae

mewtini, why can't rari be a mafia neighborizer to you?


----------



## Bluwiikoon

Can't wait for the fishing brother claim to narrow things down tbh


----------



## Trebek

ok after rerading D3 votes, and D2 votes with the knowledge of herbe’s flip, i’m getting the worst vibes from *keldeo *rn


----------



## mewtini

Mist1422 said:


> so one of mewtini's clears on rari/skylar is bad most likely


yeah that's why i've been loosening it on skylar
tbh i didn't think mafia neighborizer made sense as a role, but beyond that i guess it's just that i'd think that over like 1.5k messages i'd have gotten some sense of something going on, which i haven't - whenever we've been neighbored her inthread presence has been pretty reliant on what we talk about, which makes me feel like it's unlikely that she's aligned elsewhere. tbh i accepted a while ago t/contenthat if she's a wolf she deserves the win lol


----------



## mewtini

but anyway i'm pretty sure that i want to hit *keldeo* next


----------



## Bluwiikoon

Good news though! We can confirm kyeugh's wolfbuddy joke (her/rnp/ultracool) was an actual Humour Joke and not a Misdirection Joke because rnp flipped green :D


----------



## Trebek

(also, rereading D2 votes makes me more inclined to townlean koko)


----------



## mewtini

now that we're in some sort of a predicament/i'm feeling honest today i'll say that i have inexplicable kokorico feelings, especially now that i think it's possible skylar is mafia


----------



## mewtini

mewtini said:


> tbh i accepted a while ago *t/contenthat* if she's a wolf she deserves the win lol


what the hell
i meant to say "inthread presence/content" and somehow it did NOT end up in the correct sentence


----------



## qenya

mewtini said:


> i have inexplicable kokorico feelings


Aww. I have inexplicable feelings about you, too.

(But fr, what does this mean lmao)


----------



## Bluwiikoon

mewtini I would like to make a special request that you keep toNight's use of your powers a secret  If you weren't already!


----------



## Novae

mewtini said:


> Mist1422 said:
> 
> 
> 
> so one of mewtini's clears on rari/skylar is bad most likely
> 
> 
> 
> yeah that's why i've been loosening it on skylar
> tbh i didn't think mafia neighborizer made sense as a role, but beyond that i guess it's just that i'd think that over like 1.5k messages i'd have gotten some sense of something going on, which i haven't - whenever we've been neighbored her inthread presence has been pretty reliant on what we talk about, which makes me feel like it's unlikely that she's aligned elsewhere. tbh i accepted a while ago t/contenthat if she's a wolf she deserves the win lol
Click to expand...

mafia neighborizer is totally a role but I get your point

still I don't think it should be treated as a mechanical clear


----------



## mewtini

kokorico said:


> mewtini said:
> 
> 
> 
> i have inexplicable kokorico feelings
> 
> 
> 
> Aww. I have inexplicable feelings about you, too.
> 
> (But fr, what does this mean lmao)
Click to expand...

that i'm kind of scumleaning you but i can't in good conscience say why


----------



## rari_teh

mewtini said:


> Mist1422 said:
> 
> 
> 
> so one of mewtini's clears on rari/skylar is bad most likely
> 
> 
> 
> yeah that's why i've been loosening it on skylar
> tbh i didn't think mafia neighborizer made sense as a role, but beyond that i guess it's just that i'd think that over like 1.5k messages i'd have gotten some sense of something going on, which i haven't - whenever we've been neighbored her inthread presence has been pretty reliant on what we talk about, which makes me feel like it's unlikely that she's aligned elsewhere. tbh i accepted a while ago t/contenthat if she's a wolf she deserves the win lol
Click to expand...

same thing about mewtini tbh. if she’s mafia i’m gonna scream a lot
like, i posted more in the masonchat than here. like way more
btw i gotta say i admire mewt’s ability of talking in two places at the same time without losing pace lmao


----------



## mewtini

because i keep trying to reason about it and i haven't been able to figure out exactly what it is


----------



## rari_teh

*keldeooooo*


----------



## Trebek

mewtini said:


> kokorico said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> mewtini said:
> 
> 
> 
> i have inexplicable kokorico feelings
> 
> 
> 
> Aww. I have inexplicable feelings about you, too.
> 
> (But fr, what does this mean lmao)
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> that i'm kind of scumleaning you but i can't in good conscience say why
Click to expand...

my current vibe on koko is

e was active at EoD2 and saw me cast the vote that pushed UC to one above Herbe, while e emself had a vote on Herbe. w!koko could have easily flipped to v!herbe in the confusion, yet didnt.


----------



## rari_teh

Trebek said:


> while e emself had a vote on Herbe. w!koko could have easily flipped to v!herbe in the confusion, yet didnt.


wut


----------



## Trebek

rari_teh said:


> Trebek said:
> 
> 
> 
> while e emself had a vote on Herbe. w!koko could have easily flipped to v!herbe in the confusion, yet didnt.
> 
> 
> 
> wut
Click to expand...

vote on UC wow typing is hard


----------



## rari_teh

idk if that’s AI tbh
it would look extremely weird for koko if e flipped and then UC was vigged/lynched the next Day and flipped mafia


----------



## Bluwiikoon

I am really sad that Herbe flipped green :(


----------



## Trebek

rari_teh said:


> idk if that’s AI tbh
> it would look extremely weird for koko if e flipped and then UC was vigged/lynched the next Day and flipped mafia


yeah maybe i’m reading into this too hard

there was just a huge amount of vote swapping happening in the last like 5 minutes of D2 so that’s why i thought about it


----------



## mewtini

just to be clear i'm not trying to push koko right now, but since we're in claiming season anyway i figure i should be less secretive about my reads tbh. rari's been hearing like 75% of my raw thinking since i'm still a bit cagey about talking about my thoughts in thread (yeah, shocking, i know)


----------



## Butterfree

Oh man, what. Can’t believe RNP and Herbe were both town, whyyyyy my perfect Herbe theory

My partner is M Plus 7.


----------



## Trebek

M+8-1 really do be fishing for reads


----------



## Trebek

Trebek said:


> M+8-1 really do be fishing for reads


ok horrible jokes aside imo this solidifies keldeo.ogg


----------



## Butterfree

I definitely agree that mewtini presenting the rari/Skylar situation as mech clears is kind of misleading, if it was actually just a neighbor chat thing?? Kind of making me side-eye all of them except mewtini was checked green...


----------



## mewtini

Trebek said:


> Trebek said:
> 
> 
> 
> M+8-1 really do be fishing for reads
> 
> 
> 
> ok horrible jokes aside imo this solidifies keldeo.ogg
Click to expand...

how so? (not disagreement, just curious)


----------



## mewtini

Butterfree said:


> I definitely agree that mewtini presenting the rari/Skylar situation as mech clears is kind of misleading, if it was actually just a neighbor chat thing?? Kind of making me side-eye all of them except mewtini was checked green...


yeah i'm sorry about that, with rari it was that i was/am certain that she's town based off of our extensive conversations but that i knew i wouldn't be able to defend her inthread - without claiming - if it came to it since she'd talked far more to me than in here. i was trying to hint at skylar not being at the same level, but when she hypocopped rari as green it seemed like a good faith move (that she like, had to 'figure out' rari was town)


----------



## Butterfree

I’mmmm most inclined to look at skylar and Keldeo, I think? Or like. I still do want to finally read Trebek etc. I don’t feel like I know anything at this point. Ugh.


----------



## Bluwiikoon

Roster WITH fishing brother!



Spoiler



*Butterfree
mewtini
Vipera Magnifica
M Plus 7
Mawile - killed N0, not scum*
*Stryke - lynched D1, not scum
Seshas - killed N1, not scum
myuma - killed N1, not scum*
*I liek Squirtles - killed N2, not scum
RedneckPhoenix - lynched D3, not scum
IndigoEmmy - killed N3, not scum
Herbe - killed N3, not scum
Tofu - killed N3, not scum

Mr. Ultracool - lynched D2, scum 

Unknown?:*
rari_teh - Town neighbourizer
kyeugh - Was in neighbour!chat with rari
Bluwiikoon - Claimed vanilla town (Cassandra)
kokorico - Claimed vanilla town (Maitre D')
Trebek - Claimed vanilla town (Syllabub)
Mist1422 - Claimed vanilla town (Coricopat)
Keldeo


----------



## Trebek

mewtini said:


> Trebek said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Trebek said:
> 
> 
> 
> M+8-1 really do be fishing for reads
> 
> 
> 
> ok horrible jokes aside imo this solidifies keldeo.ogg
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> how so? (not disagreement, just curious)
Click to expand...

it was mostly just that m+7 was one of the people i was side eyeing alongside keldeo.ppt but this hopefully removes him from that equation


----------



## Trebek

hnnnnng, how confident are we in fishing brothers being town? it feels like the number of non-cleared people is too close to the number of mafia, and i feel like i’m missing something big


----------



## rari_teh

Trebek said:


> hnnnnng, how confident are we in fishing brothers being town? it feels like the number of non-cleared people is too close to the number of mafia, and i feel like i’m missing something big


we ARE missing something big tbh
we have more claimed town power roles than there are town power roles as per jack’s signup post
somebody is lying bright and bold


----------



## Bluwiikoon

Would it help if I appended power claims to the roster? ^^


----------



## mewtini

we are missing something huge but i don't know if i'm inclined to think it's in butterfree/m+7 tbh


----------



## Bluwiikoon

Roster WITH power claims!



Spoiler



*Butterfree - Fishing Brother
mewtini - Triple changer (can either vig, heal or follow) (I don't know the proper name I'm sorry OTL)
Vipera Magnifica - Vig
M Plus 7 - Fishing Brother

Mawile - killed N0, not scum*
*Stryke - lynched D1, not scum
Seshas - killed N1, not scum
myuma - killed N1, not scum*
*I liek Squirtles - killed N2, not scum** - Healer :(*
*RedneckPhoenix - lynched D3, not scum** - Jailer*
*IndigoEmmy - killed N3, not scum** - Cop*
*Herbe - killed N3, not scum** - Rolecop
Tofu - killed N3, not scum - Lynchproof

Mr. Ultracool - lynched D2, scum 

Unknown?:*
rari_teh - Town neighbourizer
kyeugh - Was in neighbour!chat with rari, supposedly has A Power
Bluwiikoon - Claimed vanilla town (Cassandra)
kokorico - Claimed vanilla town (Maitre D')
Trebek - Claimed vanilla town (Syllabub)
Mist1422 - Claimed vanilla town (Coricopat)
Keldeo


----------



## Novae

keldeo and skylar need to claim

we should be able to get a mechanical hit toDay


----------



## rari_teh

since the thread got a little quieter i guess it’s time for my daily vote charts update:



Spoiler: D1 vote history












Spoiler: D1 vote history (cropped to the beginning of the main wagons’ formation)












Spoiler: D2 vote history












Spoiler: D3 vote history









i mean, i wish yesterday’s votes were mor useful given that now we know that the wagons were v/v, but it still might be something to look at


----------



## Bluwiikoon

It's gonna be real fun to look at everything once the game is over imo ^^ I'm also curious as to how graveyard chat has been going!


----------



## rari_teh

btw @kyeugh once you log in i believe you should claim maybe even before catching up tbh

if only ILS was here to tell us what claim is the fishiest tbh… poor doctor :c


----------



## Novae




----------



## Bluwiikoon

Make sure you all hydrate and eat food btw!!! I've been forgetting to hydrate since game start and I crave beverage ^^;


----------



## Bluwiikoon

Game start? I mean Day start.


----------



## rari_teh

oh btw i think i forgot to catclaim
name’s munkustrap, nice to meet ya :P


----------



## Trebek

rari_teh said:


> oh btw i think i forgot to catclaim
> name’s munkustrap, nice to meet ya :P


ngl after reading munkustrap flavor i’d be incredibly shocked if it flipped red


----------



## Herbe

I spent all night drawing this to post it if I got nightkilled
Pretend this was posted at start of day


----------



## kyeugh

i’m old deuteronomy, a one-shot necromancer.  last night i attempted to revive ils; obviously that did not work, and i suspect that used up my shot so i’m probably effectively VT now.


----------



## kyeugh

also *keldeo*


----------



## mewtini

kyeugh said:


> i’m old deuteronomy, a one-shot necromancer.  last night i attempted to revive ils; obviously that did not work, and i suspect that used up my shot so i’m probably effectively VT now.


rari just now: "maybe i'll signal to her to revive ILS!"
F


----------



## rari_teh

one Day too late, one roleblocker too much :c


----------



## kyeugh

btw, the fact that it didn’t go through suggests to me that i got blocked, and the fact that i got blocked and not mewt is making me feel a bit worse about mewt or rari than i would otherwise.  i’m not sure why scum would choose to block me there.


----------



## mewtini

kyeugh said:


> i’m not sure why scum would choose to block me there.


this is also what i'm wondering?! but also it maybe makes me feel worse about /you/ than i would otherwise. ow my head ...


----------



## rari_teh

kyeugh said:


> btw, the fact that it didn’t go through suggests to me that i got blocked, and the fact that i got blocked and not mewt is making me feel a bit worse about mewt or rari than i would otherwise.  i’m not sure why scum would choose to block me there.


i see where you’re going, but i can read this in two other ways:

a) someone in mafia noticed herbe’s dogwhistle to mewtini during an ISO (he said, when clearing her D1, that he’d be “a jack of all trades”). they deduced that she was lying about not being limited to one heal. a mafia rolecop checked you, saw that you’re a necro and they decided to block you.

b) you are lying and trying to push me and mewt to the fire :(


----------



## mewtini

*kyeugh* tbh. it's time for a wagon split after that #betrayal


----------



## mewtini

rari_teh said:


> someone in mafia noticed herbe’s dogwhistle to mewtini during an ISO


the post for reference btw


Herbe said:


> I'm a man of my word, i told mewtini i always will target her n0:
> n0: if I'm cop, mewtini checked not scum
> 
> maybe I'll just make like 7 different fakeclaims/covers and put equal effort into every one. *i'll be a jack of all trades* :> i can do it!! I'm skilled enough


----------



## Trebek

mewtini said:


> rari_teh said:
> 
> 
> 
> someone in mafia noticed herbe’s dogwhistle to mewtini during an ISO
> 
> 
> 
> the post for reference btw
> 
> 
> Herbe said:
> 
> 
> 
> I'm a man of my word, i told mewtini i always will target her n0:
> n0: if I'm cop, mewtini checked not scum
> 
> maybe I'll just make like 7 different fakeclaims/covers and put equal effort into every one. *i'll be a jack of all trades* :> i can do it!! I'm skilled enough
> 
> Click to expand...
Click to expand...

rereading this in context makes me more depressed about herbe dying :(


----------



## kyeugh

rari_teh said:


> a) someone in mafia noticed herbe’s dogwhistle to mewtini during an ISO (he said, when clearing her D1, that he’d be “a jack of all trades”). they deduced that she was lying about not being limited to one heal. a mafia rolecop checked you, saw that you’re a necro and they decided to block you.


this is way, way more assumptions to make  :|a

i think if one of mew/rari are scum, it is more likely rari than mewt bc we know for certain mewt is a joat (by virtue of that herbe thing, but also bc there were three kills last night and idk how else that works out)

i am kind of not super interested in exploring this today though, since we only get one lynch and i‘m a lot more  about keldeo


----------



## mewtini

honestly as far as pure roles go i think joat is less alignment-indicative than neighborizer, even though i know that i'm town


----------



## rari_teh

ok maybe i shouldn’t say this because if skylar is actually telling the truth about her role this can end up horribly bad, but in retrospect it is mildly alarming that she was convinced pretty much instantly about my alignment

like, she voluntarily role- and catclaimed in the first page of the chat


----------



## kyeugh

mewtini said:


> honestly as far as pure roles go i think joat is less alignment-indicative than neighborizer, even though i know that i'm town


disagree, scum joat seems pretty weird to me and several extra kills for mafia seems kind of unnecessary especially if there are other power roles


----------



## kyeugh

rari_teh said:


> ok maybe i shouldn’t say this because if skylar is actually telling the truth about her role this can end up horribly bad, but in retrospect it is mildly alarming that she was convinced pretty much instantly about my alignment
> 
> like, she voluntarily role- and catclaimed in the first page of the chat


is neighborizer supposed to be AI or not then??

it seemed like a pretty towny role to me that was obviously... not a lie, since we were in the conversation... and its utility seems pretty limited to me if i just clam up the entire time

the only reason i’m revising my opinion about its towniness now is because if there is one scum between you/mewt i think it is less likely to be joat


----------



## mewtini

hm ok. idk all i ever know is whatever i find on mafiascum or mafiawiki lmao where joat is listed as any alignment


----------



## qenya

mewtini said:


> that i'm kind of scumleaning you but i can't in good conscience say why


well, uh, ok then. not really sure what to do with that. lmk if you think of anything concrete you want to ask me, I guess?

as far as the current topic of discussion goes:


kyeugh said:


> i’m old deuteronomy, a one-shot necromancer.  last night i attempted to revive ils; obviously that did not work, and i suspect that used up my shot so i’m probably effectively VT now.


can one of the neighbours confirm whether kyeugh did in fact claim this to them earlier?

the reason I ask this is that if she _didn't_, it's a hilariously convoluted thing to come up with on the spot and probably confirms her as town

if she _did_, then I'm looking at her a bit more askance because this supposed roleblock could just be an excuse to explain why she's not going to revive anyone now or ever, despite approaching endgame

it would be surprising to me if Jack ruled that a one-shot role getting blocked, still used up the shot


----------



## mewtini

kokorico said:


> can one of the neighbours confirm whether kyeugh did in fact claim this to them earlier?


it was claimed, yep


----------



## qenya

kokorico said:


> can one of the neighbours confirm whether kyeugh did in fact claim this to them earlier?


I should learn to check for ninjas before hitting post, lmao


----------



## rari_teh

kyeugh said:


> mewtini said:
> 
> 
> 
> honestly as far as pure roles go i think joat is less alignment-indicative than neighborizer, even though i know that i'm town
> 
> 
> 
> disagree, scum joat seems pretty weird to me and several extra kills for mafia seems kind of unnecessary especially if there are other power roles
Click to expand...

both as listed as any alignment in mafiascum fwiw


----------



## kyeugh

kokorico said:


> it would be surprising to me if Jack ruled that a one-shot role getting blocked, still used up the shot


i asked him about this and haven’t received a response yet, but i did _use_ my power once which is supposed to be how many times i’m allowed to use it, so i’m just assuming it’s used up tbh

and if not, well.  it seems unlikely to me that i will get to use it anyway now that the Cat (2019) is out of the bag


----------



## rari_teh

ninja’d by mewt like six posts earlier. fml


----------



## mewtini

rari_teh said:


> both as listed as any alignment in mafiascum fwiw


yeah, though neighborizer is mentioned specifically as 'pro-town'
i guess this doesn't really matter it's just an uncomfy time for me


----------



## rari_teh

kyeugh said:


> kokorico said:
> 
> 
> 
> it would be surprising to me if Jack ruled that a one-shot role getting blocked, still used up the shot
> 
> 
> 
> i asked him about this and haven’t received a response yet, but i did _use_ my power once which is supposed to be how many times i’m allowed to use it, so i’m just assuming it’s used up tbh
> 
> and if not, well.  it seems unlikely to me that i will get to use it anyway now that the Cat (2019) is out of the bag
Click to expand...

if you use it next Night and get simultaneously killed i am inclined to believe that the revival is going to go through tbh


----------



## rari_teh

mewtini said:


> rari_teh said:
> 
> 
> 
> both as listed as any alignment in mafiascum fwiw
> 
> 
> 
> yeah, though neighborizer is mentioned specifically as 'pro-town'
> i guess this doesn't really matter it's just an uncomfy time for me
Click to expand...

same tbh


----------



## kyeugh

rari_teh said:


> kyeugh said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> kokorico said:
> 
> 
> 
> it would be surprising to me if Jack ruled that a one-shot role getting blocked, still used up the shot
> 
> 
> 
> i asked him about this and haven’t received a response yet, but i did _use_ my power once which is supposed to be how many times i’m allowed to use it, so i’m just assuming it’s used up tbh
> 
> and if not, well.  it seems unlikely to me that i will get to use it anyway now that the Cat (2019) is out of the bag
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> if you use it next Night and get simultaneously killed i am inclined to believe that the revival is going to go through tbh
Click to expand...

i believe so yeah, i’m actually not limited to using it at night (if i’m interpreting the role pm correctly); it just doesn’t revive the player until the following day phase


----------



## Trebek

kokorico said:


> it would be surprising to me if Jack ruled that a one-shot role getting blocked, still used up the shot


yeah honestly this is the part that makes me the most suspicious. Normally RB prevents the one-shot action from actually being consumed, instead of being consumed but not having an effect? thats just my take on it tho


----------



## Trebek

oh rip sniped

must wait 7 seconds


----------



## mewtini

Trebek said:


> yeah honestly this is the part that makes me the most suspicious. Normally RB prevents the one-shot action from actually being consumed, instead of being consumed but not having an effect? thats just my take on it tho


i think this detail isn't the issue as much as claiming a roleblock for a potentially-fake power is


----------



## rari_teh

kyeugh said:


> rari_teh said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> kyeugh said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> kokorico said:
> 
> 
> 
> it would be surprising to me if Jack ruled that a one-shot role getting blocked, still used up the shot
> 
> 
> 
> i asked him about this and haven’t received a response yet, but i did _use_ my power once which is supposed to be how many times i’m allowed to use it, so i’m just assuming it’s used up tbh
> 
> and if not, well.  it seems unlikely to me that i will get to use it anyway now that the Cat (2019) is out of the bag
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> if you use it next Night and get simultaneously killed i am inclined to believe that the revival is going to go through tbh
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> i believe so yeah, i’m actually not limited to using it at night (if i’m interpreting the role pm correctly); it just doesn’t revive the player until the following day phase
Click to expand...

then what are you waiting for? submit the revive again tbh!


----------



## mewtini

rari_teh said:


> then what are you waiting for? submit the revive again tbh!


plot twist: terrorist shows up


----------



## rari_teh

btw i didn’t respond to this:


kyeugh said:


> rari_teh said:
> 
> 
> 
> a) someone in mafia noticed herbe’s dogwhistle to mewtini during an ISO (he said, when clearing her D1, that he’d be “a jack of all trades”). they deduced that she was lying about not being limited to one heal. a mafia rolecop checked you, saw that you’re a necro and they decided to block you.
> 
> 
> 
> this is way, way more assumptions to make  :|a
Click to expand...

unfortunately, yes, i agree. which means that b is probably more likely :((


----------



## qenya

mewtini said:


> rari_teh said:
> 
> 
> 
> then what are you waiting for? submit the revive again tbh!
> 
> 
> 
> plot twist: terrorist shows up
Click to expand...

*Bomb ky*- no not really


----------



## rari_teh

mewtini said:


> rari_teh said:
> 
> 
> 
> then what are you waiting for? submit the revive again tbh!
> 
> 
> 
> plot twist: terrorist shows up
Click to expand...

mfw kokorico liked that post o.o


----------



## mewtini

kokorico said:


> *Bomb ky*- no not really


i'd fucking scream


----------



## kyeugh

rari_teh said:


> btw i didn’t respond to this:
> 
> 
> kyeugh said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rari_teh said:
> 
> 
> 
> a) someone in mafia noticed herbe’s dogwhistle to mewtini during an ISO (he said, when clearing her D1, that he’d be “a jack of all trades”). they deduced that she was lying about not being limited to one heal. a mafia rolecop checked you, saw that you’re a necro and they decided to block you.
> 
> 
> 
> this is way, way more assumptions to make  :|a
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> unfortunately, yes, i agree. which means that b is probably more likely :((
Click to expand...

what about the other option when i’m telling the truth :wowee:

the only reason i’m expressing suspicion on either of you is because i got blocked which doesn’t make sense.  it would be weird if i did not have this reaction.  i don’t see how me meanwhile making a claim that’s not immediately falsifiable results in me actually being nefarious


----------



## qenya

I will however *vote kyeugh* because this whole sequence of coincidences is sounding more and more contrived the more I think about it

(I reserve the right to hop off the wagon later if keldeo shows up and makes an ass of himself, but that's the way I'm thinking rn)


----------



## kyeugh

rari_teh said:


> kyeugh said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rari_teh said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> kyeugh said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> kokorico said:
> 
> 
> 
> it would be surprising to me if Jack ruled that a one-shot role getting blocked, still used up the shot
> 
> 
> 
> i asked him about this and haven’t received a response yet, but i did _use_ my power once which is supposed to be how many times i’m allowed to use it, so i’m just assuming it’s used up tbh
> 
> and if not, well.  it seems unlikely to me that i will get to use it anyway now that the Cat (2019) is out of the bag
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> if you use it next Night and get simultaneously killed i am inclined to believe that the revival is going to go through tbh
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> i believe so yeah, i’m actually not limited to using it at night (if i’m interpreting the role pm correctly); it just doesn’t revive the player until the following day phase
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> then what are you waiting for? submit the revive again tbh!
Click to expand...

for jack to answer me about whether my action was used


----------



## mewtini

my angy vote was halfway a meme tbh. i'm kind of ?_? at the chain of events though - i agree that it makes no sense for you to have gotten roleblocked but i'm unsure which way that actually makes me lean


----------



## kyeugh

i think if i’m scum i probably don’t do the thing that puts me at odds with the two people townreading me most strongly, when i could just.  say i haven’t used my action yet, or something


----------



## Vipera Magnifica

kyeugh said:


> mewtini said:
> 
> 
> 
> honestly as far as pure roles go i think joat is less alignment-indicative than neighborizer, even though i know that i'm town
> 
> 
> 
> disagree, scum joat seems pretty weird to me and several extra kills for mafia seems kind of unnecessary especially if there are other power roles
Click to expand...

Agreed, and let's not forget Emmy had a greencheck on mewtini. How exactly is mewtini supposed to be a godfather and a JOAT?

Out of mewtini/rari/skylar the one I have a feeling is most likely mafia is rari.

I am going to be extremely shocked if *Keldeo *is not mafia.


----------



## kyeugh

oh yeah i actually did completely forget about emmy


----------



## mewtini

kyeugh said:


> oh yeah i actually did completely forget about emmy


i didn't!!! :( anyway i'm getting cold feet and will vibe on the safe *keldeo* wagon for now because i don't feel like thinking hard rn


----------



## Bluwiikoon




----------



## Vipera Magnifica

I don't think it's possible there is a mafia rolecop given that Herbe was a town rolecop. Jack (let alone anyone from tcod meta) would never give both town and mafia a rolecop, and if I'm wrong about that I don't know Jack.

skylar, I think the only reason you were blocked is because you told rari your role...


----------



## kyeugh

what’s the probable town/scum ratio rn
i kinda feel like town should not fire any more night shots if it’s as close as i’m thinking


----------



## kyeugh

Vipera Magnifica said:


> I don't think it's possible there is a mafia rolecop given that Herbe was a town rolecop. Jack (let alone anyone from tcod meta) would never give both town and mafia a rolecop, and if I'm wrong about that I don't know Jack.
> 
> skylar, I think the only reason you were blocked is because you told rari your role...


honestly this seems increasingly likely to me too, especially because i’m almost sure rari would’ve predicted that i would attempt to use my power last night

but. i do think keldeo is probably safer for now, i’m not 100% sure on it and i think i saw someone say  we might be in mylo?


----------



## kyeugh

btw the fact that herbe flipped scum probably means that town had a full doctor, a joat with healing, AND a jailer, plus scum apparently has a roleblocker.  i feel like jack has probably been laughing at our mech spec this entire time


----------



## kyeugh

kyeugh said:


> herbe flipped scum


* town


----------



## Vipera Magnifica

I really should look back at who was originally saying "If RNP flips green, then town should vig Herbe"


Spoiler











They didn't even try to roleblock me because they knew I was going to kill Herbe, all according to keikaku


----------



## mewtini

Vipera Magnifica said:


> I really should look back at who was originally saying "If RNP flips green, then town should vig Herbe"


i don't know if she was the first but


kyeugh said:


> i think it doesn't really matter to me if herbe/rnp goes although i think if there's suddenly a big herbe wagon at the end it's probably because he's town
> however regardless of who we lynch, if it's between those two, if the lynchee flips green the vig needs to hit the other


----------



## kyeugh

Vipera Magnifica said:


> I really should look back at who was originally saying "If RNP flips green, then town should vig Herbe"


idk who said it first but i definitely said it a lot, and butterfree jumps out in my memory as someone who did too

tbh though. it really did seem to be pretty airtight. this game is something


----------



## mewtini

but also like. the theory made sense. so :C


----------



## kyeugh

haha ninja’d haha haha lol


----------



## mewtini

honestly in the event where rari has just been the mafia's agent for pocketing me all this time i'll just. accept it. i'm in too deep to change course now i feel like >:


----------



## rari_teh

kyeugh said:


> rari_teh said:
> 
> 
> 
> btw i didn’t respond to this:
> 
> 
> kyeugh said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rari_teh said:
> 
> 
> 
> a) someone in mafia noticed herbe’s dogwhistle to mewtini during an ISO (he said, when clearing her D1, that he’d be “a jack of all trades”). they deduced that she was lying about not being limited to one heal. a mafia rolecop checked you, saw that you’re a necro and they decided to block you.
> 
> 
> 
> this is way, way more assumptions to make  :|a
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> unfortunately, yes, i agree. which means that b is probably more likely :((
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> what about the other option when i’m telling the truth :wowee:
> 
> the only reason i’m expressing suspicion on either of you is because i got blocked which doesn’t make sense.  it would be weird if i did not have this reaction.  i don’t see how me meanwhile making a claim that’s not immediately falsifiable results in me actually being nefarious
Click to expand...

if you are telling the truth, i completely understand how would you get suspicious of me/mewtini. i would be as well in your place
which brings me to an admittedly wifomy question: why the hell would mafia!me be ok with my scumbuddies blocking you if the obvious implication is that I, who otherwise would be mostly cleared, would be sussed by you?

another conjecture as to why mafia could’ve blocked you: they were probably as ?_? as town was about our three-way clear. mewtini is obviously not the center of it as she’s some sort of healing role, so whatever’s going on must be about either me or you. also why would mewtini and I clear each other 100% but you only 90%? what if they blocked you to see wtf would happen?


kyeugh said:


> rari_teh said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> kyeugh said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rari_teh said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> kyeugh said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> kokorico said:
> 
> 
> 
> it would be surprising to me if Jack ruled that a one-shot role getting blocked, still used up the shot
> 
> 
> 
> i asked him about this and haven’t received a response yet, but i did _use_ my power once which is supposed to be how many times i’m allowed to use it, so i’m just assuming it’s used up tbh
> 
> and if not, well.  it seems unlikely to me that i will get to use it anyway now that the Cat (2019) is out of the bag
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> if you use it next Night and get simultaneously killed i am inclined to believe that the revival is going to go through tbh
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> i believe so yeah, i’m actually not limited to using it at night (if i’m interpreting the role pm correctly); it just doesn’t revive the player until the following day phase
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> then what are you waiting for? submit the revive again tbh!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> for jack to answer me about whether my action was used
Click to expand...

why tbh? if you send your action while it was used up, it’ll just fail again smh



Vipera Magnifica said:


> I really should look back at who was originally saying "If RNP flips green, then town should vig Herbe"
> 
> 
> Spoiler
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> They didn't even try to roleblock me because they knew I was going to kill Herbe, all according to keikaku


iirc it was kyeugh :/


----------



## rari_teh

rari_teh said:


> another conjecture as to why mafia could’ve blocked you: they were probably as ?_? as town was about our three-way clear. mewtini is obviously not the center of it as she’s some sort of healing role, so whatever’s going on must be about either me or you. also why would mewtini and I clear each other 100% but you only 90%? what if they blocked you to see wtf would happen?


this gains even more credit when you factor in that it was obvious that the vig was going to kill herbe. if they deduced that mewtini’s limitations meant that she couldn’t heal twice in a row and they were going to kill emmy anyway, they didn’t have any mechanically correct option for a roleblocking target


----------



## Vipera Magnifica

is2g Tofu has been whining for days about how "rari is totally mafia" and I'm kinda believing it now

rari do you mind recapping why you were pushing so hard for a Tofu lynch?


----------



## kyeugh

rari_teh said:


> why tbh? if you send your action while it was used up, it’ll just fail again smh


? i don’t really get why i must do this immediately, it seems normal to me to just wait a minute for him to answer

speaking of which: he just replied that my power was indeed consumed, and suggested that there’s some precedent for that ruling in the game already. so uh. that is great tbh

rip ils fr this time


----------



## kyeugh

btw im like 75% on trebek being mafia at this point
trebek/keldeo/mist/rari/blu? idk


----------



## Vipera Magnifica

kyeugh said:


> btw im like 75% on trebek being mafia at this point
> trebek/keldeo/mist/rari/blu? idk


honestly i am vibing with this


----------



## rari_teh

Vipera Magnifica said:


> is2g Tofu has been whining for days about how "rari is totally mafia" and I'm kinda believing it now
> 
> rari do you mind recapping why you were pushing so hard for a Tofu lynch?


omg lol. this gets funnier considering that for the longest time _both my flashmasons_ were suspicious of Tofu while I was convinced that she was town
like, i only changed my mind yesterDay

my (former) reasoning lays majorly on some jarring behaviour from her part D3, namely:
a) she pressed on kyeugh insisting that her speculation around the identity of the vig was anti-town and a scumtell (while kyeugh had only elaborated on that because you pressed her into doing it). not even fourty posts later, Tofu herself says completely out of the blue that there was indeed a vig between her and you. i couldn’t, and still cannot, wrap my head around what she was thinking with that.

b) she made a post speculating what would mewtini be… and correctly guessed that she was a JoaT. which is, like, a super rare role that i definitely didn’t think she, as a newbie, would’ve known of the existence. i myself first heard of it when mewtini roleclaimed to me. i (and mewt) suspected that she heard it from a mafia rolecop.

also c) she was extremely insistent on mewtini+I+skylar to spill the beans about what was going about us, which is in my view a highly anti-town move. obviously if we’re not saying it it’s because we believe we have a risk of being nk’d if it gets out.

also also d) her defense of “old posts shouldn’t be used to analyze one’s alignment” sounded as a desperate newbie!mafia move to try and clear herself


----------



## Trebek

kyeugh said:


> btw im like 75% on trebek being mafia at this point


is there a reason that this has changed from previously? or is the conclusion just based off of currently claimed PRs


----------



## kyeugh

blu may switch for koko there
 can someone remind me of emmy’s cop checks again


----------



## rari_teh

rari_teh said:


> also c) she was extremely insistent on mewtini+I+skylar to spill the beans about what was going about us, which is in my view a highly anti-town move. obviously if we’re not saying it it’s because we believe we have a risk of being nk’d if it gets out.


btw i’m side-eyeing kokorico for the exact same reason


----------



## rari_teh

kyeugh said:


> blu may switch for koko there
> can someone remind me of emmy’s cop checks again


n0 mewt green
n1 seshas green
n2 kyeugh fail


----------



## kyeugh

ic ic. hmm


----------



## mewtini

i don't totally know her answer but i've been pushing for it really hard in our out-of-thread talk (going so far as to build a case, which is why i vigged tofu) and i think some of it springboarded off of that


rari_teh said:


> this gets funnier considering that for the longest time _both my flashmasons_ were suspicious of Tofu while I was convinced that she was town


yeah ftr i kept pushing a tofu case to rari and it was rari who shot me down when i thought about trying to talk the thread into it (a lot of "you and skylar keep saying she seems weird, i don't see it"), it was only at EoD where she was like "ok vig her if you want tbh"


----------



## mewtini

lol the first part was written way earlier and i forgot to delete it. nice


----------



## kyeugh

iirc the current living players are

me
mewt
vm
rari
mist
bfree
mp7
keldeo
blu
koko
did i miss anyone there?


----------



## mewtini

trebek


----------



## Trebek

nah im dead dont worry bout me


----------



## Vipera Magnifica

rari_teh said:


> b) she made a post speculating what would mewtini be… and correctly guessed that she was a JoaT. which is, like, a super rare role that i definitely didn’t think she, as a newbie, would’ve known of the existence. i myself first heard of it when mewtini roleclaimed to me. i (and mewt) suspected that she heard it from a mafia rolecop.


whoops, I actually told her about the existence of this role when we were coming up with stuff for Tarot Mafia 
when mewtini claimed "half-doctor" I knew like right away it was JoaT


----------



## rari_teh

Vipera Magnifica said:


> whoops, I actually told her about the existence of this role when we were coming up with stuff for Tarot Mafia


uh-oh lmao
loltown strikes again


----------



## kyeugh

ooh, right.

me - me
mewt - cop clear, joat
vm - almost definitely vig unless he’s basically riding tofu’s corpse
rari - flash neighborizer
mist - ?
bfree - cop clear, fishing brother
mp7 - fishing brother
keldeo - ?
blu - ?
koko - ?
trebek - ?
there are probably 5 scum remaining. most of them are in those question marks, almost certain. rari might be in there, but i think she’s probably at the bottom of the POE right this moment.


----------



## mewtini

rari remember when we literally fucking said "what if she knows of it from vm"
mfw. ah well


----------



## mewtini

kyeugh said:


> most of them are in those question marks, almost certain.


lol. yeah. fwiw most of those guys have claimed VT - mist/koko/trebek/blu have - but stryke was VT, seshas might have been (going off of my tracking result, not very conclusive) and myuma is a question mark?/probably would have claimed if they were a PR but who knows


----------



## mewtini

mewtini said:


> kyeugh said:
> 
> 
> 
> most of them are in those question marks, almost certain.
> 
> 
> 
> lol. yeah. fwiw most of those guys have claimed VT - mist/koko/trebek/blu have - but stryke was VT, seshas might have been (going off of my tracking result, not very conclusive) and myuma is a question mark?/probably would have claimed if they were a PR but who knows
Click to expand...

+ mawile


----------



## kyeugh

tbh i’m kind of approaching the point of no return, where people who resist my POE without fairly compelling evidence just get kicked up higher on my POE.


----------



## Trebek

mewtini said:


> kyeugh said:
> 
> 
> 
> most of them are in those question marks, almost certain.
> 
> 
> 
> lol. yeah. fwiw most of those guys have claimed VT - mist/koko/trebek/blu have - but stryke was VT, seshas might have been (going off of my tracking result, not very conclusive) and myuma is a question mark?/probably would have claimed if they were a PR but who knows
Click to expand...

yeah, my best guess atm is that 2 VT claims are legit and 2 are fake


----------



## Trebek

Trebek said:


> mewtini said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> kyeugh said:
> 
> 
> 
> most of them are in those question marks, almost certain.
> 
> 
> 
> lol. yeah. fwiw most of those guys have claimed VT - mist/koko/trebek/blu have - but stryke was VT, seshas might have been (going off of my tracking result, not very conclusive) and myuma is a question mark?/probably would have claimed if they were a PR but who knows
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> yeah, my best guess atm is that 2 VT claims are legit and 2 are fake
Click to expand...

actually, maybe 3 if we have to account for 5 mafia


----------



## mewtini

Trebek said:


> actually, maybe 3 if we have to account for 5 mafia


hahahaha are you just saying "my claim is real" because respect tbh. i love to see it


----------



## Trebek

mewtini said:


> Trebek said:
> 
> 
> 
> actually, maybe 3 if we have to account for 5 mafia
> 
> 
> 
> hahahaha are you just saying "my claim is real" because respect tbh. i love to see it
Click to expand...

maybe


----------



## Bluwiikoon

I shoulda pretended I was the healer so mafia woulda stabbed me instead of someone actually important :-( But then again, my Big Brain Plays haven't exactly been the best for me (lol emmy!alienposting)


----------



## Trebek

kyeugh said:


> rari_teh said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> kyeugh said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> kokorico said:
> 
> 
> 
> it would be surprising to me if Jack ruled that a one-shot role getting blocked, still used up the shot
> 
> 
> 
> i asked him about this and haven’t received a response yet, but i did _use_ my power once which is supposed to be how many times i’m allowed to use it, so i’m just assuming it’s used up tbh
> 
> and if not, well.  it seems unlikely to me that i will get to use it anyway now that the Cat (2019) is out of the bag
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> if you use it next Night and get simultaneously killed i am inclined to believe that the revival is going to go through tbh
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> i believe so yeah, i’m actually not limited to using it at night (if i’m interpreting the role pm correctly); it just doesn’t revive the player until the following day phase
Click to expand...

how would this interact with role block? like you submit it during the day, and then get roleblocked the next night?


----------



## Trebek

maybe i’m overthinking it but that feels like a bit of a contradiction


----------



## rari_teh

Trebek said:


> kyeugh said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rari_teh said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> kyeugh said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> kokorico said:
> 
> 
> 
> it would be surprising to me if Jack ruled that a one-shot role getting blocked, still used up the shot
> 
> 
> 
> i asked him about this and haven’t received a response yet, but i did _use_ my power once which is supposed to be how many times i’m allowed to use it, so i’m just assuming it’s used up tbh
> 
> and if not, well.  it seems unlikely to me that i will get to use it anyway now that the Cat (2019) is out of the bag
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> if you use it next Night and get simultaneously killed i am inclined to believe that the revival is going to go through tbh
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> i believe so yeah, i’m actually not limited to using it at night (if i’m interpreting the role pm correctly); it just doesn’t revive the player until the following day phase
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> how would this interact with role block? like you submit it during the day, and then get roleblocked the next night?
Click to expand...

if it’s the same as it was in tvt, she would have to be blocked the previous night


----------



## rari_teh

rari_teh said:


> Trebek said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> kyeugh said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rari_teh said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> kyeugh said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> kokorico said:
> 
> 
> 
> it would be surprising to me if Jack ruled that a one-shot role getting blocked, still used up the shot
> 
> 
> 
> i asked him about this and haven’t received a response yet, but i did _use_ my power once which is supposed to be how many times i’m allowed to use it, so i’m just assuming it’s used up tbh
> 
> and if not, well.  it seems unlikely to me that i will get to use it anyway now that the Cat (2019) is out of the bag
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> if you use it next Night and get simultaneously killed i am inclined to believe that the revival is going to go through tbh
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> i believe so yeah, i’m actually not limited to using it at night (if i’m interpreting the role pm correctly); it just doesn’t revive the player until the following day phase
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> how would this interact with role block? like you submit it during the day, and then get roleblocked the next night?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> if it’s the same as it was in tvt, she would have to be blocked the previous night
Click to expand...

…oh.


----------



## Trebek

rari_teh said:


> Trebek said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> kyeugh said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rari_teh said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> kyeugh said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> kokorico said:
> 
> 
> 
> it would be surprising to me if Jack ruled that a one-shot role getting blocked, still used up the shot
> 
> 
> 
> i asked him about this and haven’t received a response yet, but i did _use_ my power once which is supposed to be how many times i’m allowed to use it, so i’m just assuming it’s used up tbh
> 
> and if not, well.  it seems unlikely to me that i will get to use it anyway now that the Cat (2019) is out of the bag
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> if you use it next Night and get simultaneously killed i am inclined to believe that the revival is going to go through tbh
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> i believe so yeah, i’m actually not limited to using it at night (if i’m interpreting the role pm correctly); it just doesn’t revive the player until the following day phase
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> how would this interact with role block? like you submit it during the day, and then get roleblocked the next night?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> if it’s the same as it was in tvt, she would have to be blocked the previous night
Click to expand...

as in if she was blocked last night, she can’t revive during this day?


----------



## mewtini

rari_teh said:


> if it’s the same as it was in tvt, she would have to be blocked the previous night


wait but


----------



## mewtini

rari_teh said:


> …oh.


lol ninjad


----------



## Trebek

oh wait did you guys think of something i didn’t lmao


----------



## mewtini

i was just thinking "if she were blocked during the night and it didn't work, then she shouldn't be able to retry during the dayphase" but then i got confused and didn't say anything else other than 'wait' heh


----------



## mewtini

if that's what y'all are thinking


----------



## mewtini

mewtini said:


> if that's what y'all are thinking


oh. reading other people's posts helps. yes we are all on the same page.


----------



## rari_teh

that’s what i was thinking too, to be clear


----------



## Trebek

i wasn’t actually thinking that far ahead, i was just pinged by the combination of “i can use my action during the day” and “oh hecc i got roleblocked last night”


----------



## mewtini

get on our level ryan


----------



## Trebek

i’m Sorry i cant have Out of Thread Communication ¯\_(ツ)_/¯


----------



## mewtini

we can have it too, it would just be illegal. <3


----------



## kyeugh

it is also possible i’m misreading it, specifically the role pm uses the verbiage “at any point in the game” but that might refer to, like, when i’m allowed to use it/when the target has to have died to be a valid target/i am just reading way too much into it


----------



## rari_teh

kyeugh said:


> it is also possible i’m misreading it, specifically the role pm uses the verbiage “at any point in the game” but that might refer to, like, when i’m allowed to use it/when the target has to have died to be a valid target/i am just reading way too much into it


i would understand this as “regardless of the Time of the Day” as well tbqh


----------



## Trebek

kyeugh said:


> it is also possible i’m misreading it, specifically the role pm uses the verbiage “at any point in the game” but that might refer to, like, when i’m allowed to use it/when the target has to have died to be a valid target/i am just reading way too much into it


in that case, what was your thought process behind using your action last night, instead of last day?


----------



## kyeugh

i think functionally it’s not really “using it during the day” already since it activates overnight no matter what. i was sorta just interpreting it as, like, i can submit during the day and then it still goes through that night if i get lynched or something? now that i’m saying it out loud it sounds stupid and i’m probably misinterpreting it and jack is loling


----------



## Trebek

idk why i said in that case


----------



## kyeugh

Trebek said:


> kyeugh said:
> 
> 
> 
> it is also possible i’m misreading it, specifically the role pm uses the verbiage “at any point in the game” but that might refer to, like, when i’m allowed to use it/when the target has to have died to be a valid target/i am just reading way too much into it
> 
> 
> 
> in that case, what was your thought process behind using your action last night, instead of last day?
Click to expand...

that i wasn’t getting lynched and it didn’t matter? idk


----------



## rari_teh

kyeugh said:


> Trebek said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> kyeugh said:
> 
> 
> 
> it is also possible i’m misreading it, specifically the role pm uses the verbiage “at any point in the game” but that might refer to, like, when i’m allowed to use it/when the target has to have died to be a valid target/i am just reading way too much into it
> 
> 
> 
> in that case, what was your thought process behind using your action last night, instead of last day?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> that i wasn’t getting lynched and it didn’t matter? idk
Click to expand...

but why waste time tbh? i think trebek got a very interesting point tbh


----------



## Trebek

rari_teh said:


> kyeugh said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Trebek said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> kyeugh said:
> 
> 
> 
> it is also possible i’m misreading it, specifically the role pm uses the verbiage “at any point in the game” but that might refer to, like, when i’m allowed to use it/when the target has to have died to be a valid target/i am just reading way too much into it
> 
> 
> 
> in that case, what was your thought process behind using your action last night, instead of last day?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> that i wasn’t getting lynched and it didn’t matter? idk
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> but why waste time tbh? i think trebek got a very interesting point tbh
Click to expand...

also (i swear i’m not intentionally tunneling my brains just slow) i feel like the decision would’ve been influenced by the fear of a mafia roleblocker?


----------



## mewtini

i'm not talking because you guys are phrasing it better than me but i agree that this is sort of weird given that we know a roleblocker is about


----------



## rari_teh

mewtini said:


> i'm not talking because you guys are phrasing it better than me but i agree that this is sort of weird given that we know a roleblocker is about


and that said roleblocker, in D3, was likely to be RNP, who blocked Emmy
which means that kyeugh was likely free to act


----------



## kyeugh

rari_teh said:


> kyeugh said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Trebek said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> kyeugh said:
> 
> 
> 
> it is also possible i’m misreading it, specifically the role pm uses the verbiage “at any point in the game” but that might refer to, like, when i’m allowed to use it/when the target has to have died to be a valid target/i am just reading way too much into it
> 
> 
> 
> in that case, what was your thought process behind using your action last night, instead of last day?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> that i wasn’t getting lynched and it didn’t matter? idk
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> but why waste time tbh? i think trebek got a very interesting point tbh
Click to expand...

you are thinking way, way harder about this than i was. it’s not wasted time because it’s not really time sensitive as long as i don’t die, which i didn’t. and even if it was i don’t really think it matters since if i’m lying i’m lying about all of it? idk why we’re talking about this or why it’s interesting tbh


----------



## Trebek

i mean the reason i’m thinking about it is bc when looking at my PoE you’re probably the most likely to fill in the 5th slot

and bc i got pinged by you sorta singling me out among the question marks of your PoE, which would make sense if the other question marks were also scum


----------



## rari_teh

kyeugh said:


> it’s not wasted time because it’s not really time sensitive as long as i don’t die, which i didn’t.


or you aren’t roleblocked, which you allegedly were


kyeugh said:


> even if it was i don’t really think it matters since if i’m lying i’m lying about all of it?


yeah, but this inconsistency can be a sign that you are lying about it all e.e


----------



## Trebek

also frankly why shouldn’t we talk about it? we got a lot of day in front of us so i don’t see the reason to panic-shut down lines of conversation


----------



## kyeugh

rari_teh said:


> yeah, but this inconsistency can be a sign that you are lying about it all e.e


there’s no inconsistency??  i’m yet to understand what’s confusing about me not immediately hitting enter on a power i only get to use once


----------



## rari_teh

Trebek said:


> also frankly why shouldn’t we talk about it? we got a lot of day in front of us so i don’t see the reason to panic-shut down lines of conversation


this tbh
i do not like this response one bit tbh


----------



## kyeugh

i’m not panic shutting anything down, i just literally don’t understand in what way this matters at all


----------



## Trebek

it matters to me bc i know that your list of 5 ?s doesn’t cover the mafia bc i’m one of those ?s but that’s just me


----------



## rari_teh

kyeugh said:


> rari_teh said:
> 
> 
> 
> yeah, but this inconsistency can be a sign that you are lying about it all e.e
> 
> 
> 
> there’s no inconsistency??  i’m yet to understand what’s confusing about me not immediately hitting enter on a power i only get to use once
Click to expand...

what would you have to gain by waiting until EoD to submit your action while you could, or you believed you could, just as well send it before?!


----------



## Trebek

kyeugh said:


> rari_teh said:
> 
> 
> 
> yeah, but this inconsistency can be a sign that you are lying about it all e.e
> 
> 
> 
> there’s no inconsistency??  i’m yet to understand what’s confusing about me not immediately hitting enter on a power i only get to use once
Click to expand...

the confusion isn’t about you not immediately hitting enter

the confusion is your responses to me asking about your thought process

bc if it’s a power you only get to use once, i wouldn’t then expect your response to be “you’re thinking about this more than i am”


----------



## kyeugh

rari_teh said:


> kyeugh said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rari_teh said:
> 
> 
> 
> yeah, but this inconsistency can be a sign that you are lying about it all e.e
> 
> 
> 
> there’s no inconsistency??  i’m yet to understand what’s confusing about me not immediately hitting enter on a power i only get to use once
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> what would you have to gain by waiting until EoD to submit your action while you could, or you believed you could, just as well send it before?!
Click to expand...

 because i wasn’t sure i wanted to use it until the day was over?  this is so not confusing


----------



## kyeugh

Trebek said:


> kyeugh said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rari_teh said:
> 
> 
> 
> yeah, but this inconsistency can be a sign that you are lying about it all e.e
> 
> 
> 
> there’s no inconsistency??  i’m yet to understand what’s confusing about me not immediately hitting enter on a power i only get to use once
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> the confusion isn’t about you not immediately hitting enter
> 
> the confusion is your responses to me asking about your thought process
> 
> bc if it’s a power you only get to use once, i wouldn’t then expect your response to be “you’re thinking about this more than i am”
Click to expand...

 no, the thing you guys are thinking hard about is the exact timing that i submitted my action at, to which my response is “i didn’t think that much about it because it has literally no impact on the execution of the power,” which i feel like is... normal?


----------



## Trebek

kyeugh said:


> Trebek said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> kyeugh said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rari_teh said:
> 
> 
> 
> yeah, but this inconsistency can be a sign that you are lying about it all e.e
> 
> 
> 
> there’s no inconsistency??  i’m yet to understand what’s confusing about me not immediately hitting enter on a power i only get to use once
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> the confusion isn’t about you not immediately hitting enter
> 
> the confusion is your responses to me asking about your thought process
> 
> bc if it’s a power you only get to use once, i wouldn’t then expect your response to be “you’re thinking about this more than i am”
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> no, the thing you guys are thinking hard about is the exact timing that i submitted my action at, to which my response is “i didn’t think that much about it because it has literally no impact on the execution of the power,” which i feel like is... normal?
Click to expand...

the whole reason any of this was brought up was bc i was wondering about the interaction between your role and a role blocker

in which case the timing would literally have an impact on the execution of the power


----------



## mewtini

kyeugh said:


> to which my response is “i didn’t think that much about it because it has literally no impact on the execution of the power,” which i feel like is... normal?


not if we knew that someone else had received the roleblock in your place?


----------



## kyeugh

yes, and i’m explaining that i did not consider the exact time that i submitted my action to be relevant to whether or not it got blocked.  which is why i don’t think it matters, and why i think it’s weird that we’re talking about it like it’s some kind of evidence of my alignment.


----------



## Trebek

i’m gonna be loltown if this crashes and burns but tbh this whole interaction feels a little too contradictory/abrasive for someone who was in towncore for a good portion of the game

*kyeugh*


----------



## kyeugh

mewtini said:


> kyeugh said:
> 
> 
> 
> to which my response is “i didn’t think that much about it because it has literally no impact on the execution of the power,” which i feel like is... normal?
> 
> 
> 
> not if we knew that someone else had received the roleblock in your place?
Click to expand...

 what?  you can’t possibly know that, roleblocks are sent in at night, and also: i wasn’t sure if i wanted to use my power at all until like an IRL day into the night


----------



## rari_teh

kyeugh said:


> yes, and i’m explaining that i did not consider the exact time that i submitted my action to be relevant to whether or not it got blocked.  which is why i don’t think it matters, and why i think it’s weird that we’re talking about it like it’s some kind of evidence of my alignment.


it’s definitely not evidence, but a possible sign
now, your reaction is being definitely  tbqh
also not an evidence, but a sign


----------



## kyeugh

rari_teh said:


> kyeugh said:
> 
> 
> 
> yes, and i’m explaining that i did not consider the exact time that i submitted my action to be relevant to whether or not it got blocked.  which is why i don’t think it matters, and why i think it’s weird that we’re talking about it like it’s some kind of evidence of my alignment.
> 
> 
> 
> it’s definitely not evidence, but a possible sign
> now, your reaction is being definitely  tbqh
> also not an evidence, but a sign
Click to expand...

can you please explain to me how it’s a sign of anything because that’s what i’ve been asking for like five posts now and you guys just keep saying that me being weirded out by it makes me scummy


----------



## Trebek

for posterity’s sake: my vote is not at all tied to the mechanical discussion, it is tied to the dialogue


----------



## mewtini

kyeugh said:


> what? you can’t possibly know that, roleblocks are sent in at night, and also: i wasn’t sure if i wanted to use my power at all until like an IRL day into the night


i might just be confused because i'm kind of catching up. aren't we talking about when we knew rnp had roleblocked emmy and were debating whether or not _he_ was the mafia roleblocker?


----------



## rari_teh

kyeugh said:


> mewtini said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> kyeugh said:
> 
> 
> 
> to which my response is “i didn’t think that much about it because it has literally no impact on the execution of the power,” which i feel like is... normal?
> 
> 
> 
> not if we knew that someone else had received the roleblock in your place?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> what?  you can’t possibly know that, roleblocks are sent in at night, and also: i wasn’t sure if i wanted to use my power at all until like an IRL day into the night
Click to expand...

mate
you said you were pretty sure that rnp was the maf roleblocker
rnp blocked emmy
ergo you weren’t blocked


----------



## kyeugh

rari_teh said:


> kyeugh said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> mewtini said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> kyeugh said:
> 
> 
> 
> to which my response is “i didn’t think that much about it because it has literally no impact on the execution of the power,” which i feel like is... normal?
> 
> 
> 
> not if we knew that someone else had received the roleblock in your place?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> what?  you can’t possibly know that, roleblocks are sent in at night, and also: i wasn’t sure if i wanted to use my power at all until like an IRL day into the night
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> mate
> you said you were pretty sure that rnp was the maf roleblocker
> rnp blocked emmy
> ergo you weren’t blocked
Click to expand...

 o... k?  i’m really not understanding what this has to do with the timing of my action.  i got blocked last night, at which point rnp was already dead


----------



## Trebek

kyeugh said:


> rari_teh said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> kyeugh said:
> 
> 
> 
> yes, and i’m explaining that i did not consider the exact time that i submitted my action to be relevant to whether or not it got blocked.  which is why i don’t think it matters, and why i think it’s weird that we’re talking about it like it’s some kind of evidence of my alignment.
> 
> 
> 
> it’s definitely not evidence, but a possible sign
> now, your reaction is being definitely  tbqh
> also not an evidence, but a sign
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> can you please explain to me how it’s a sign of anything because that’s what i’ve been asking for like five posts now and you guys just keep saying that me being weirded out by it makes me scummy
Click to expand...

the way i see it is your reactions flag me as scum who was riding along in towncore for a while and is now suddenly having to tie together their narrative now that they are being prodded


----------



## rari_teh

Trebek said:


> i’m gonna be loltown if this crashes and burns but tbh this whole interaction feels a little too contradictory/abrasive for someone who was in towncore for a good portion of the game
> 
> *kyeugh*


i’m super tempted to hop in, but i won’t until keldeo appears and starts speaking
i mean, if i don’t like his words i will not hop in, but


----------



## Trebek

kyeugh said:


> rari_teh said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> kyeugh said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> mewtini said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> kyeugh said:
> 
> 
> 
> to which my response is “i didn’t think that much about it because it has literally no impact on the execution of the power,” which i feel like is... normal?
> 
> 
> 
> not if we knew that someone else had received the roleblock in your place?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> what?  you can’t possibly know that, roleblocks are sent in at night, and also: i wasn’t sure if i wanted to use my power at all until like an IRL day into the night
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> mate
> you said you were pretty sure that rnp was the maf roleblocker
> rnp blocked emmy
> ergo you weren’t blocked
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> o... k?  i’m really not understanding what this has to do with the timing of my action.  i got blocked last night, at which point rnp was already dead
Click to expand...

bc rari mentioned that if this role worked the way it worked in tvt, rnp having blocked emmy the night before would’ve allowed you to revive ils without consequences


----------



## rari_teh

kyeugh said:


> rari_teh said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> kyeugh said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> mewtini said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> kyeugh said:
> 
> 
> 
> to which my response is “i didn’t think that much about it because it has literally no impact on the execution of the power,” which i feel like is... normal?
> 
> 
> 
> not if we knew that someone else had received the roleblock in your place?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> what?  you can’t possibly know that, roleblocks are sent in at night, and also: i wasn’t sure if i wanted to use my power at all until like an IRL day into the night
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> mate
> you said you were pretty sure that rnp was the maf roleblocker
> rnp blocked emmy
> ergo you weren’t blocked
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> o... k?  i’m really not understanding what this has to do with the timing of my action.  i got blocked last night, at which point rnp was already dead
Click to expand...

bruh.ogg


----------



## kyeugh

Trebek said:


> kyeugh said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rari_teh said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> kyeugh said:
> 
> 
> 
> yes, and i’m explaining that i did not consider the exact time that i submitted my action to be relevant to whether or not it got blocked.  which is why i don’t think it matters, and why i think it’s weird that we’re talking about it like it’s some kind of evidence of my alignment.
> 
> 
> 
> it’s definitely not evidence, but a possible sign
> now, your reaction is being definitely  tbqh
> also not an evidence, but a sign
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> can you please explain to me how it’s a sign of anything because that’s what i’ve been asking for like five posts now and you guys just keep saying that me being weirded out by it makes me scummy
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> the way i see it is your reactions flag me as scum who was riding along in towncore for a while and is now suddenly having to tie together their narrative now that they are being prodded
Click to expand...

i don’t have a “narrative,” i’ve explained exactly what i’ve done all game on pretty clear terms and you‘re deciding to hyperfixate on a random piece of irrelevant information as “inconsistent” and reading my frustration as scummy


----------



## Trebek

kyeugh said:


> Trebek said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> kyeugh said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rari_teh said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> kyeugh said:
> 
> 
> 
> yes, and i’m explaining that i did not consider the exact time that i submitted my action to be relevant to whether or not it got blocked.  which is why i don’t think it matters, and why i think it’s weird that we’re talking about it like it’s some kind of evidence of my alignment.
> 
> 
> 
> it’s definitely not evidence, but a possible sign
> now, your reaction is being definitely  tbqh
> also not an evidence, but a sign
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> can you please explain to me how it’s a sign of anything because that’s what i’ve been asking for like five posts now and you guys just keep saying that me being weirded out by it makes me scummy
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> the way i see it is your reactions flag me as scum who was riding along in towncore for a while and is now suddenly having to tie together their narrative now that they are being prodded
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> i don’t have a “narrative,” i’ve explained exactly what i’ve done all game on pretty clear terms and you‘re deciding to hyperfixate on a random piece of irrelevant information as “inconsistent” and reading my frustration as scummy
Click to expand...

i mean, it would also be nice if you explained why you’re scum reading me more than your other ?s

made me feel like maf was you and the other ?s


----------



## Trebek

also, idk how this is irrelevant when if you aren’t lying about your role, this could have been the difference between ils coming back or not


----------



## rari_teh

Trebek said:


> kyeugh said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Trebek said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> kyeugh said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rari_teh said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> kyeugh said:
> 
> 
> 
> yes, and i’m explaining that i did not consider the exact time that i submitted my action to be relevant to whether or not it got blocked.  which is why i don’t think it matters, and why i think it’s weird that we’re talking about it like it’s some kind of evidence of my alignment.
> 
> 
> 
> it’s definitely not evidence, but a possible sign
> now, your reaction is being definitely  tbqh
> also not an evidence, but a sign
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> can you please explain to me how it’s a sign of anything because that’s what i’ve been asking for like five posts now and you guys just keep saying that me being weirded out by it makes me scummy
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> the way i see it is your reactions flag me as scum who was riding along in towncore for a while and is now suddenly having to tie together their narrative now that they are being prodded
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> i don’t have a “narrative,” i’ve explained exactly what i’ve done all game on pretty clear terms and you‘re deciding to hyperfixate on a random piece of irrelevant information as “inconsistent” and reading my frustration as scummy
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> i mean, it would also be nice if you explained why you’re scum reading me more than your other ?s
> 
> made me feel like maf was you and the other ?s
Click to expand...

especially considering that there must be one mafia in me/mewt/vm/kyeugh if everything else is right


----------



## kyeugh

i was not scumreading you more than anyone else, but the fact that you seem very conscious of my singular opinion and decided to express that by hyperfocusing on a random aspect of my role is getting me there


----------



## mewtini

so excited for @Keldeo to claim so i can decide who i'm voting on first


----------



## Trebek

rari_teh said:


> Trebek said:
> 
> 
> 
> i’m gonna be loltown if this crashes and burns but tbh this whole interaction feels a little too contradictory/abrasive for someone who was in towncore for a good portion of the game
> 
> *kyeugh*
> 
> 
> 
> i’m super tempted to hop in, but i won’t until keldeo appears and starts speaking
> i mean, if i don’t like his words i will not hop in, but
Click to expand...

for the record i totally am vibing with the keldeo.wav vote as well, but i want to have both on the table for people rereading to see


----------



## Trebek

kyeugh said:


> i was not scumreading you more than anyone else, but the fact that you seem very conscious of my singular opinion and decided to express that by hyperfocusing on a random aspect of my role is getting me there


what did you mean when you put me at 75% scum then? i asked about that earlier and never saw a response


----------



## kyeugh

Trebek said:


> kyeugh said:
> 
> 
> 
> i was not scumreading you more than anyone else, but the fact that you seem very conscious of my singular opinion and decided to express that by hyperfocusing on a random aspect of my role is getting me there
> 
> 
> 
> what did you mean when you put me at 75% scum then? i asked about that earlier and never saw a response
Click to expand...

i already made a post explaining who i believe is probably scum, and you were on that list with the rest of the ?s.  therefore you are probably scum by process of elimination.  i don’t think it’s that weird


----------



## Trebek

kyeugh said:


> Trebek said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> kyeugh said:
> 
> 
> 
> i was not scumreading you more than anyone else, but the fact that you seem very conscious of my singular opinion and decided to express that by hyperfocusing on a random aspect of my role is getting me there
> 
> 
> 
> what did you mean when you put me at 75% scum then? i asked about that earlier and never saw a response
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> i already made a post explaining who i believe is probably scum, and you were on that list with the rest of the ?s.  therefore you are probably scum by process of elimination.  i don’t think it’s that weird
Click to expand...

i was the only one singled out from the ?s
that’s why i’m confused


----------



## rari_teh

kyeugh said:


> Trebek said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> kyeugh said:
> 
> 
> 
> i was not scumreading you more than anyone else, but the fact that you seem very conscious of my singular opinion and decided to express that by hyperfocusing on a random aspect of my role is getting me there
> 
> 
> 
> what did you mean when you put me at 75% scum then? i asked about that earlier and never saw a response
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> i already made a post explaining who i believe is probably scum, and you were on that list with the rest of the ?s.  therefore you are probably scum by process of elimination.  i don’t think it’s that weird
Click to expand...

yeah, but you said he is more likely to be scum than the others. why?


----------



## kyeugh

rari_teh said:


> kyeugh said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Trebek said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> kyeugh said:
> 
> 
> 
> i was not scumreading you more than anyone else, but the fact that you seem very conscious of my singular opinion and decided to express that by hyperfocusing on a random aspect of my role is getting me there
> 
> 
> 
> what did you mean when you put me at 75% scum then? i asked about that earlier and never saw a response
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> i already made a post explaining who i believe is probably scum, and you were on that list with the rest of the ?s.  therefore you are probably scum by process of elimination.  i don’t think it’s that weird
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> yeah, but you said he is more likely to be scum than the others. why?
Click to expand...

no, i didn’t.  i only mentioned trebek by name because he was someone i had not mentioned as being potential mafia before, and had only just gotten to the point of thinking he was more likely than not to be scum, while everyone else i’ve been pretty iffy on for the entire game.


----------



## mewtini

kyeugh said:


> no, i didn’t. i only mentioned trebek by name because he was someone i had not mentioned as being potential mafia before, and had only just gotten to the point of thinking he was more likely than not to be scum, while everyone else i’ve been pretty iffy on for the entire game.


fair, i don't think it's weird either for trebek to have mentioned it since you hadn't responded to him when he'd asked specifically if it was by process of elimination


----------



## Trebek

to reiterate the question i asked before then: was there a specific reason that you changed your mind on me being scum?


----------



## rari_teh

kyeugh said:


> rari_teh said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> kyeugh said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Trebek said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> kyeugh said:
> 
> 
> 
> i was not scumreading you more than anyone else, but the fact that you seem very conscious of my singular opinion and decided to express that by hyperfocusing on a random aspect of my role is getting me there
> 
> 
> 
> what did you mean when you put me at 75% scum then? i asked about that earlier and never saw a response
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> i already made a post explaining who i believe is probably scum, and you were on that list with the rest of the ?s.  therefore you are probably scum by process of elimination.  i don’t think it’s that weird
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> yeah, but you said he is more likely to be scum than the others. why?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> no, i didn’t.  i only mentioned trebek by name because he was someone i had not mentioned as being potential mafia before, and had only just gotten to the point of thinking he was more likely than not to be scum, while everyone else i’ve been pretty iffy on for the entire game.
Click to expand...

welp, just did an ISO and you’re right. sorry about that one :c


----------



## kyeugh

regardless of whether i can actually submit my action during the day or i’m just misreading my role pm, the power still activates overnight, so it makes sense to assume it’s blocked by roleblockers the night it fires, regardless of when i send jack the specific message designating my target.  and again, this is assuming i didn’t misread it, which i’m increasingly convinced i did, because the ability to submit a power like this during the day seems kind of useless and arbitrary when it activates overnight anyway.

i am only frustrated because i have acted in a way that i feel makes sense, and having some trivial aspect of my play that i have pretty much not put that much thought into—and am still certain has no bearing on the actual execution of the power at all—pulled out as some kind of gotcha because it doesn’t align with how tvt functioned (?) is a bit aggravating.  exaggerating a trivial detail like this is the exact kind of thing mafia would do, and the fact that trebek is making his argument against me because he felt threatened by me mentioning him by name exactly once is setting off all kinds of alarm bells—not to mention the fact that he felt the need to point out that he’s ok with the keldeo wagon.  (i am not as pinged by rari because it feels much, much less reactionary from them.)

... even so, i don’t really see any reason we should lynch anyone other than keldeo today, unless he comes in and makes some mind-blowing case for his innocence.


Trebek said:


> to reiterate the question i asked before then: was there a specific reason that you changed your mind on me being scum?


 yes, because a bunch of people died and flipped town last night and mp7 is now clear, so the group of people who could be scum is far smaller, and you’re in it.  previously you were ranking above tofu and probably herbe for me.


----------



## Trebek

kyeugh said:


> Trebek said:
> 
> 
> 
> to reiterate the question i asked before then: was there a specific reason that you changed your mind on me being scum?
> 
> 
> 
> yes, because a bunch of people died and flipped town last night and mp7 is now clear, so the group of people who could be scum is far smaller, and you’re in it.  previously you were ranking above tofu and probably herbe for me.
Click to expand...

ok, that makes perfect sense-thanks!

although tbh, idk how else i was supposed to react in that situation: my PoE has 4 “likely mafia” in it and then 1 person who has to come from towncore, and then the person who i suspect most from towncore drops a FoS on me out of the blue without explaining it until much later

it still seems to me like a mafia who’s willing to bus 4 members as long as it solidifies the 5th ¯\_(ツ)_/¯


----------



## rari_teh

kyeugh said:


> regardless of whether i can actually submit my action during the day or i’m just misreading my role pm, the power still activates overnight


uuh what? i see that you mean that the person would rise from the dead the Day after, but – correct me if i’m wrong – if you can submit an action during the Day, for all intents and purposes it happened during the Day and any subsequent blockings won’t affect it, right?


----------



## Trebek

kyeugh said:


> not to mention the fact that he felt the need to point out that he’s ok with the keldeo wagon.


i might just be ignorant on this front, but why does this set off alarm bells? it’s not like there’s only 1 mafia left to find


----------



## rari_teh

Trebek said:


> it still seems to me like a mafia who’s willing to bus 4 members as long as it solidifies the 5th ¯\_(ツ)_/¯


especially considering that if we mislynch today and the vig either does nothing or misfires, mafia will win :(


----------



## mewtini

kyeugh said:


> pulled out as some kind of gotcha because it doesn’t align with how tvt functioned (?) is a bit aggravating.


... i still think this is a mischaracterization, though? 

pointing out a possible mechanical inconsistency isn't an arbitrary _gotcha!_ moment, since (i think) all we know/can assume is that the applicable roleblock would be the roleblock from last night, making it rightfully confusing that you mentioned thinking about using your power now despite having just had it blocked - unless you were thinking that the roleblock mechanics would allow you to use it now, even ahead of any roleblock that would happen tonight (?).

aiui the optimal strategy would be to revive a useful town PR as soon as you felt able and as soon as it seemed like it was a safe time to (which yesterDay would have been since we thought there was a strong possibility that rnp was the mafia roleblocker). barring something else (hoping to wait until someone else's death to revive them, ... i can't really think of anything else actually) i'm not sure why submitting it during a non-roleblocked time would be less than ideal. 

i'm actually interested in keldeo's claim because, if it ends up the case that you and keldeo are w/w, he has a weaker role than you (or he's vanilla) since under that assumption you've been pushing to bus him for a bit now


----------



## kyeugh

rari_teh said:


> kyeugh said:
> 
> 
> 
> regardless of whether i can actually submit my action during the day or i’m just misreading my role pm, the power still activates overnight
> 
> 
> 
> uuh what? i see that you mean that the person would rise from the dead the Day after, but – correct me if i’m wrong – if you can submit an action during the Day, for all intents and purposes it happened during the Day and any subsequent blockings won’t affect it, right?
Click to expand...

no, i would not assume this at all.  it is not an action that occurs during the day, otherwise the player would spring up immediately.  if i can indeed submit it during the day, i would assume it could be blocked any time between then and when the revival actually occurs—so in essence, blockable overnight.


----------



## mewtini

i got slightly ninja'd by mech talk tbh so sorry about that


----------



## rari_teh

kyeugh said:


> rari_teh said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> kyeugh said:
> 
> 
> 
> regardless of whether i can actually submit my action during the day or i’m just misreading my role pm, the power still activates overnight
> 
> 
> 
> uuh what? i see that you mean that the person would rise from the dead the Day after, but – correct me if i’m wrong – if you can submit an action during the Day, for all intents and purposes it happened during the Day and any subsequent blockings won’t affect it, right?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> no, i would not assume this at all.  it is not an action that occurs during the day, otherwise the player would spring up immediately.  if i can indeed submit it during the day, i would assume it could be blocked any time between then and when the revival actually occurs—so in essence, blockable overnight.
Click to expand...

so you’re saying that you think that sending your action during the Day would be tantamount to queuing you Night action in advance – which is always a valid move for when the player knows they won’t be able to log in during the Night? then i don’t see how “you can send in your action whenever” and “you can only send in your action during the Night” are any different


----------



## kyeugh

rari_teh said:


> kyeugh said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rari_teh said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> kyeugh said:
> 
> 
> 
> regardless of whether i can actually submit my action during the day or i’m just misreading my role pm, the power still activates overnight
> 
> 
> 
> uuh what? i see that you mean that the person would rise from the dead the Day after, but – correct me if i’m wrong – if you can submit an action during the Day, for all intents and purposes it happened during the Day and any subsequent blockings won’t affect it, right?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> no, i would not assume this at all.  it is not an action that occurs during the day, otherwise the player would spring up immediately.  if i can indeed submit it during the day, i would assume it could be blocked any time between then and when the revival actually occurs—so in essence, blockable overnight.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> so you’re saying that you think that sending your action during the Day would be tantamount to queuing you Night action in advance – which is always a valid move for when the player knows they won’t be able to log in during the Night? then i don’t see how “you can send in your action whenever” and “you can only send in your action during the Night” are any different
Click to expand...

me either, this is what i’ve been saying this entire time over and over.


----------



## rari_teh

kyeugh said:


> rari_teh said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> kyeugh said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rari_teh said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> kyeugh said:
> 
> 
> 
> regardless of whether i can actually submit my action during the day or i’m just misreading my role pm, the power still activates overnight
> 
> 
> 
> uuh what? i see that you mean that the person would rise from the dead the Day after, but – correct me if i’m wrong – if you can submit an action during the Day, for all intents and purposes it happened during the Day and any subsequent blockings won’t affect it, right?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> no, i would not assume this at all.  it is not an action that occurs during the day, otherwise the player would spring up immediately.  if i can indeed submit it during the day, i would assume it could be blocked any time between then and when the revival actually occurs—so in essence, blockable overnight.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> so you’re saying that you think that sending your action during the Day would be tantamount to queuing you Night action in advance – which is always a valid move for when the player knows they won’t be able to log in during the Night? then i don’t see how “you can send in your action whenever” and “you can only send in your action during the Night” are any different
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> me either, this is what i’ve been saying this entire time over and over.
Click to expand...

then – pardon the question – why even point out that you could send your action whenever to begin with if such detail would be completely pointless?


----------



## Trebek

ok i’m probably gonna back off a bit on this now bc obv i’m biased since i know my claim is legit lmao

but i would be interested in other people’s thoughts on all this once they catch up!


----------



## rari_teh

i am especially interested to hear keldeo’s words
not only about this clusterfuck, but about things in general and most importantly his cat identity


----------



## kyeugh

rari_teh said:


> kyeugh said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rari_teh said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> kyeugh said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rari_teh said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> kyeugh said:
> 
> 
> 
> regardless of whether i can actually submit my action during the day or i’m just misreading my role pm, the power still activates overnight
> 
> 
> 
> uuh what? i see that you mean that the person would rise from the dead the Day after, but – correct me if i’m wrong – if you can submit an action during the Day, for all intents and purposes it happened during the Day and any subsequent blockings won’t affect it, right?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> no, i would not assume this at all.  it is not an action that occurs during the day, otherwise the player would spring up immediately.  if i can indeed submit it during the day, i would assume it could be blocked any time between then and when the revival actually occurs—so in essence, blockable overnight.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> so you’re saying that you think that sending your action during the Day would be tantamount to queuing you Night action in advance – which is always a valid move for when the player knows they won’t be able to log in during the Night? then i don’t see how “you can send in your action whenever” and “you can only send in your action during the Night” are any different
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> me either, this is what i’ve been saying this entire time over and over.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> then – pardon the question – why even point out that you could send your action whenever to begin with if such detail would be completely pointless?
Click to expand...

because it was a thought i had in response to another post, and there was no particular reason not to say it.  i’m not really holding myself back from posting stuff if it’s not Super Useful, that’s never been my approach.


----------



## rari_teh

kyeugh said:


> rari_teh said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> kyeugh said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rari_teh said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> kyeugh said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rari_teh said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> kyeugh said:
> 
> 
> 
> regardless of whether i can actually submit my action during the day or i’m just misreading my role pm, the power still activates overnight
> 
> 
> 
> uuh what? i see that you mean that the person would rise from the dead the Day after, but – correct me if i’m wrong – if you can submit an action during the Day, for all intents and purposes it happened during the Day and any subsequent blockings won’t affect it, right?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> no, i would not assume this at all.  it is not an action that occurs during the day, otherwise the player would spring up immediately.  if i can indeed submit it during the day, i would assume it could be blocked any time between then and when the revival actually occurs—so in essence, blockable overnight.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> so you’re saying that you think that sending your action during the Day would be tantamount to queuing you Night action in advance – which is always a valid move for when the player knows they won’t be able to log in during the Night? then i don’t see how “you can send in your action whenever” and “you can only send in your action during the Night” are any different
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> me either, this is what i’ve been saying this entire time over and over.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> then – pardon the question – why even point out that you could send your action whenever to begin with if such detail would be completely pointless?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> because it was a thought i had in response to another post, and there was no particular reason not to say it.  i’m not really holding myself back from posting stuff if it’s not Super Useful, that’s never been my approach.
Click to expand...

mm. i still think that this all is  at best for your image, but i’ll let it slide for the moment bc i’m more interested in figuring keldeo out at this point


----------



## kyeugh

Trebek said:


> kyeugh said:
> 
> 
> 
> not to mention the fact that he felt the need to point out that he’s ok with the keldeo wagon.
> 
> 
> 
> i might just be ignorant on this front, but why does this set off alarm bells? it’s not like there’s only 1 mafia left to find
Click to expand...

because it could be a bus for precisely that reason, and i don’t think anyone would actually assume your vote on me was specifically to shield keldeo; it seems more likely you’d think that of your own vote if that’s what it was, and assume others might come to the same conclusion because it’s obvious to you.


Trebek said:


> although tbh, idk how else i was supposed to react in that situation: my PoE has 4 “likely mafia” in it and then 1 person who has to come from towncore, and then the person who i suspect most from towncore drops a FoS on me out of the blue without explaining it until much later


 while i agree that it’s not an absurd read, i find it really weird that you say you don’t know how else you would react in that situation, and then in the same breath say that my read was “out of the blue without explaining.”  the reasoning in both cases is implicit, and pretty much identical: adjusting reads to suit new mechanical (and public) information.


----------



## Trebek

kyeugh said:


> Trebek said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> kyeugh said:
> 
> 
> 
> not to mention the fact that he felt the need to point out that he’s ok with the keldeo wagon.
> 
> 
> 
> i might just be ignorant on this front, but why does this set off alarm bells? it’s not like there’s only 1 mafia left to find
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> because it could be a bus for precisely that reason, and i don’t think anyone would actually assume your vote on me was specifically to shield keldeo; it seems more likely you’d think that of your own vote if that’s what it was, and assume others might come to the same conclusion because it’s obvious to you.
> 
> 
> Trebek said:
> 
> 
> 
> although tbh, idk how else i was supposed to react in that situation: my PoE has 4 “likely mafia” in it and then 1 person who has to come from towncore, and then the person who i suspect most from towncore drops a FoS on me out of the blue without explaining it until much later
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> while i agree that it’s not an absurd read, i find it really weird that you say you don’t know how else you would react in that situation, and then in the same breath say that my read was “out of the blue without explaining.”  the reasoning in both cases is implicit, and pretty much identical: adjusting reads to suit new mechanical (and public) information.
Click to expand...

in re: the first thing - i didn’t actually think about that, so it’s good to know that that’s how other people could see it

the second thing - my response to the situation was not that you made that read about me: i understood that it was a PoE. my response was based on how you went about it


----------



## kyeugh

are you saying that you always understood where my read on you was coming from, and were just responding to the fact that i mentioned you as potential scum at all?


----------



## Trebek

kyeugh said:


> are you saying that you always understood where my read on you was coming from, and were just responding to the fact that i mentioned you as potential scum at all?


i can understand that your PoE ends up with me on the bottom. what flagged me is that you mentioned my name specifically, with no mention of “oh i’m mentioning trebek now that other people are dead”, and then ignored me asking if there were any other reasons behind your decision


----------



## mewtini

kyeugh said:


> i don’t think anyone would actually assume your vote on me was specifically to shield keldeo; it seems more likely you’d think that of your own vote if that’s what it was


uh ... but saying "oh, i could go with keldeo, but i want people to see this" in response to rari's "i'm deciding between these two wagons" doesn't seem that weird to me? i think this is a skewed take and is also kind of what most of us, including you, have been doing when keldeo has been presented as the 'safe' wagon for a bit of time now


----------



## kyeugh

mewtini said:


> kyeugh said:
> 
> 
> 
> i don’t think anyone would actually assume your vote on me was specifically to shield keldeo; it seems more likely you’d think that of your own vote if that’s what it was
> 
> 
> 
> uh ... but saying "oh, i could go with keldeo, but i want people to see this" in response to rari's "i'm deciding between these two wagons" doesn't seem that weird to me? i think this is a skewed take and is also kind of what most of us, including you, have been doing when keldeo has been presented as the 'safe' wagon for a bit of time now
Click to expand...

i’m not really sure how these are the same thing at all.  one is saying that keldeo is the best wagon up front and explicitly, the other is like, feeling the need to remind the thread for posterity that you’re not anti-anti-keldeo because someone else mentioned that they want to put their vote there.


----------



## Trebek

kyeugh said:


> mewtini said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> kyeugh said:
> 
> 
> 
> i don’t think anyone would actually assume your vote on me was specifically to shield keldeo; it seems more likely you’d think that of your own vote if that’s what it was
> 
> 
> 
> uh ... but saying "oh, i could go with keldeo, but i want people to see this" in response to rari's "i'm deciding between these two wagons" doesn't seem that weird to me? i think this is a skewed take and is also kind of what most of us, including you, have been doing when keldeo has been presented as the 'safe' wagon for a bit of time now
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> i’m not really sure how these are the same thing at all.  one is saying that keldeo is the best wagon up front and explicitly, the other is like, feeling the need to remind the thread for posterity that you’re not anti-anti-keldeo because someone else mentioned that they want to put their vote there.
Click to expand...

it’s not that someone else mentioned that there vote was there lmao

it’s because my vote was on him when i moved to you


----------



## kyeugh

Trebek said:


> kyeugh said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> mewtini said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> kyeugh said:
> 
> 
> 
> i don’t think anyone would actually assume your vote on me was specifically to shield keldeo; it seems more likely you’d think that of your own vote if that’s what it was
> 
> 
> 
> uh ... but saying "oh, i could go with keldeo, but i want people to see this" in response to rari's "i'm deciding between these two wagons" doesn't seem that weird to me? i think this is a skewed take and is also kind of what most of us, including you, have been doing when keldeo has been presented as the 'safe' wagon for a bit of time now
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> i’m not really sure how these are the same thing at all.  one is saying that keldeo is the best wagon up front and explicitly, the other is like, feeling the need to remind the thread for posterity that you’re not anti-anti-keldeo because someone else mentioned that they want to put their vote there.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> it’s not that someone else mentioned that there vote was there lmao
> 
> it’s because my vote was on him when i moved to you
Click to expand...

 that’s exactly why it’s extraneous to re-mention for everyone that you’re not against the keldeo wagon, and why i’m making this read, and why am saying all this stuff at all.

i’m kind of weary of overexplaining everything and having those explanations repeatedly misinterpreted ad infinitum tbh.  i’m going to log off the thread for probably like a day, ping me if you need something answered and i’ll go back and look at it ig.


----------



## Trebek

kyeugh said:


> Trebek said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> kyeugh said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> mewtini said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> kyeugh said:
> 
> 
> 
> i don’t think anyone would actually assume your vote on me was specifically to shield keldeo; it seems more likely you’d think that of your own vote if that’s what it was
> 
> 
> 
> uh ... but saying "oh, i could go with keldeo, but i want people to see this" in response to rari's "i'm deciding between these two wagons" doesn't seem that weird to me? i think this is a skewed take and is also kind of what most of us, including you, have been doing when keldeo has been presented as the 'safe' wagon for a bit of time now
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> i’m not really sure how these are the same thing at all.  one is saying that keldeo is the best wagon up front and explicitly, the other is like, feeling the need to remind the thread for posterity that you’re not anti-anti-keldeo because someone else mentioned that they want to put their vote there.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> it’s not that someone else mentioned that there vote was there lmao
> 
> it’s because my vote was on him when i moved to you
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> that’s exactly why it’s extraneous to re-mention for everyone that you’re not against the keldeo wagon, and why i’m making this read, and why am saying all this stuff at all.
> 
> i’m kind of weary of overexplaining everything and having those explanations repeatedly misinterpreted ad infinitum tbh.  i’m going to log off the thread for probably like a day, ping me if you need something answered and i’ll go back and look at it ig.
Click to expand...

i mean you said that you assumed i reiterated it “because someone else mentioned that they want to put their vote there” so i just wanted to clarify


----------



## kyeugh

kyeugh said:


> i’m kind of weary of overexplaining everything and having those explanations repeatedly misinterpreted ad infinitum tbh. i’m going to log off the thread for probably like a day, ping me if you need something answered and i’ll go back and look at it ig.


sorry if this seems snippy btw; i know you guys are genuinely confused and whatnot, and i am partly to blame for that, but i did genuinely say the same thing


Spoiler: over






kyeugh said:


> i think functionally it’s not really “using it during the day” already since it activates overnight no matter what. i was sorta just interpreting it as, like, i can submit during the day and then it still goes through that night if i get lynched or something?








Spoiler: and over






kyeugh said:


> it’s not wasted time because it’s not really time sensitive as long as i don’t die








Spoiler: and over






kyeugh said:


> my response is “i didn’t think that much about it because it has literally no impact on the execution of the power,”








Spoiler: and over






kyeugh said:


> yes, and i’m explaining that i did not consider the exact time that i submitted my action to be relevant to whether or not it got blocked.








Spoiler: and over






kyeugh said:


> regardless of whether i can actually submit my action during the day or i’m just misreading my role pm, the power still activates overnight, so it makes sense to assume it’s blocked by roleblockers the night it fires, regardless of when i send jack the specific message designating my target.








Spoiler: and over






kyeugh said:


> it is not an action that occurs during the day, otherwise the player would spring up immediately. if i can indeed submit it during the day, i would assume it could be blocked any time between then and when the revival actually occurs—so in essence, blockable overnight.





before it finally sunk in, which... again i’m genuinely not blaming anyone and i apologize if i hurt any feelings or irritated anyone, but it’s still an exasperating/draining place to be in from my pov, which is why i just need to not look at the thread for a bit, heh.


----------



## kyeugh

Spoiler: over






kyeugh said:


> genuinely


/spoiler]


Spoiler: and over






kyeugh said:


> genuinely


/spoiler]


Spoiler: and over






kyeugh said:


> genuinely





lolskylar


----------



## kyeugh

kyeugh said:


> Spoiler: over
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> kyeugh said:
> 
> 
> 
> genuinely
> 
> 
> 
> /spoiler]
> 
> 
> Spoiler: and over
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> kyeugh said:
> 
> 
> 
> genuinely
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> /spoiler]
> 
> 
> Spoiler: and over
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> kyeugh said:
> 
> 
> 
> genuinely
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> lolskylar
Click to expand...

/spoiler]lolskylar


----------



## mewtini

still kind of overly stressed out from yesterday so i'll probably be spotty for the next while still until i bother making a legitimate case, but i'm just making a post to say where my head is at: i think the team is skylar/keldeo/mist/blu/koko and i'm just going to talk about my gut feelings for the time being. sorry that this isn't cross-referenced or anything, but i realized that i probably won't post all day unless i just say this right now. [a sidenote is that it is still technically possible for VM to be in the scumteam in the event that he's actually just claiming tofu's kills or something; on the other hand i kind of think he's just town ... ? unsure, haven't really looked at his interactions too much. something to look out for is that him getting roleblocked toNight could be an attempt to frame him on that basis, especially now that it's been brought up a few times - me now, skylar previously in 3993.]

i'm going to stand by my villa reads on rari and trebek until they flip, and maybe it's unfortunate but i really really believe in both of them for the reasons that i've already discussed: trebek's ultracool/herbe vote behavior just makes no sense otherwise, he's been genuinely solvy after his quiet earlygame in a way that shows towniness to me, and my irl/personality read on him makes me even more sure of this. i've been talking to rari like 24/7 whenever we've been neighbored and she and i have tinfoiled about every possible pairing and team that there is _and_ her game here is identical to her game in tvt except for the fact that she's been acting in alignment with me/quieter inthread because of our communications.

from the scuffle last night, rari/skylar and trebek/skylar are _never_ w/w pairs, and i maintain now that there was something not right with skylar's response to trebek's (reasonable) push.

if keldeo/skylar are indeed co-wolves like i think they are, there's no way that skylar isn't the one with the PR (or, at the very least, the better PR) given how she's been gently pushing on keldeo all game, and is now trying to gain towncred from sending keldeo to the basement. (i know that i'm doing a 180, but given that i've known about her necromancer claim since d3, i was trying to avoid having her to claim just in case she was telling the truth; in that scenario, she almost certainly wouldn't get to use her power if it had come to that).

i'm going to go with *kyeugh* tbh, sorry buddy. keldeo is probably also a wolf, but i'm guessing that dispatching skylar is actually probably more ideal if my theory is right. i'll come back later to re-evaluate but i figured it'd be better to get this out there/break the silence a bit.


----------



## mewtini

i don't really recall if i'd already voted but it made for a good end-of-post bit so w/e tbh.


----------



## mewtini

mewtini said:


> i'm going to go with *kyeugh* tbh, sorry buddy. keldeo is probably also a wolf, but i'm guessing that dispatching skylar is actually probably more ideal if my theory is right. i'll come back later to re-evaluate but i figured it'd be better to get this out there/break the silence a bit.


i guess we're in MyLo so the "safe" lynch is the more ideal one, but i also am not entirely convinced that w!keldeo is any more guaranteed or failsafe than w!skylar (aside from me having covered for her for the past while). ahem. and now i will stop talking and pretend that this game doesn't exist for the next few hours -


----------



## Trebek

my worry with “safe” lynch is that if we just safe lynch the next few days, it just gives whichever wolf is already partially in towncore more time to establish themselves as towncore, and just choosing a safe lynch early in the day and sitting on it is gonna stagnate discussion.


----------



## mewtini

i mean - we literally have to safelynch now or we just lose the game instantly. on the other hand i am not entirely sure what the safest lynch actually is, other than “avoid the three mech clears” or whatever. hahaha. but also, yeah, we can’t just pick someone and stop talking for the rest of toDay, you’re right


----------



## Novae

:woweek:

that is all, for now

more content when I come back from something that may or may not be a therapy session I'm not sure yet


----------



## Vipera Magnifica

i really don't think skylar is a safe lynch at all and i think it's more likely than not she is town

@mewtini are you able to vig tonight? if we both use vig powers tonight, even if one of us dies and the other is blocked, we should still get one kill through... this will help us get the numbers back on our side


----------



## mewtini

Vipera Magnifica said:


> i really don't think skylar is a safe lynch at all and i think it's more likely than not she is town
> 
> @mewtini are you able to vig tonight? if we both use vig powers tonight, even if one of us dies and the other is blocked, we should still get one kill through... this will help us get the numbers back on our side


i’m fine vibing back onto keldeo tbh, but i felt the need to Make My Case in the event that i die tonight heh

i’m not able to vig though sadly :(


----------



## mewtini

can you talk more about why you think she’s likelier to be town than keldeo?


----------



## Vipera Magnifica

by PoE i think the scum team is probably keldeo/mist/blu/trebek and one of either rari/skylar though i'm not 100% sure about koko


----------



## mewtini

cool, thanks. that makes sense and is probably closer to where i’d be at if i didn’t trust trebek; i also don’t think that trebek/keldeo can be w/w given what happened on d1 during the reaction test


----------



## Vipera Magnifica

mewtini said:


> cool, thanks. that makes sense and is probably closer to where i’d be at if i didn’t trust trebek; i also don’t think that trebek/keldeo can be w/w given what happened on d1 during the reaction test


i've been thinking about that and get the feeling the reaction test might have been staged to make us think keldeo/trebek couldn't be w/w


----------



## mewtini

idk. i think it went farther than it should have if it was just scum theater, but that’s a fair thought


----------



## mewtini

sorry if this is a redundant question. i thought you were actually sort of sus of skylar earlier on; what makes you think she's town over trebek?


----------



## rari_teh

doesn’t anyone else think that Keldeo’s silence since the beginning of the Day is at the very least suspicious? almost as if he’s a goon or a weak mafia PR and he’s taking one for the team and embracing the lynch. if all other people who are high enough in most people’s PoEs are mafia as well – which i’m inclined to believe they are –, the best strategy is to let the goon die giving towncred to a mafia PR in the process. due to her easily faked claims and, in hindsight, consistent anti-town wagonbuilding, i’m also inclined to believe that *kyeugh* is a valuable mafia member.

now watch keldeo log in and distance from kyeugh


----------



## Novae

I am not scum tbh! I do agree PoE is the best way to go forward but it feels slightly unfortunate because I am simply vibing here and I'm at the middle/bottom


----------



## Bluwiikoon

I'm literally vanilla town and I don't know how I can improve the vibes  I do however have this image of Bob dressed up as vanilla ice cream!



I've kind of spent the whole game feeling useless because literally all I can do is post words and I'm not good at words at the best of times ^^;


----------



## Bluwiikoon

It is a very quiet Day so far


----------



## mewtini

ikr ...


----------



## Trebek

:(


----------



## rari_teh

it’s probably just the mafia freaking out about the current situation tbh
i’m pretty positive we’re going to hit scum no matter which of the current wagons win tbh


----------



## Bluwiikoon

Thank god we have PoE!!


----------



## Bluwiikoon

I'm wondering if it does the mafia any favours to push hard on someone they know is one of the uncleared town, or if they'll just keep vanilla townies alive to make PoE harder for power!town  No sir I don't like it!


----------



## Trebek

Bluwiikoon said:


> I'm wondering if it does the mafia any favours to push hard on someone they know is one of the uncleared town, or if they'll just keep vanilla townies alive to make PoE harder for power!town  No sir I don't like it!


my best guess is that they might try to push uncleared town during day, but we will be safe at night :p


----------



## Bluwiikoon

I'm definitely alien and not second healer so mafia better not stab me!  It would be a Huge Shame


----------



## Bluwiikoon

I'll hypoheal mewtini if I have to!!! You can't stop me!!


----------



## mewtini

Bluwiikoon said:


> I'll hypoheal mewtini if I have to!!! You can't stop me!!


blu is locktown


----------



## Keldeo

Imagine posting while playing this game.

Night flips kind of make me want to turn my reads upside down ugh


----------



## Keldeo

Mist1422 said:


> this is quite possibly a day off from a scum win if we execute the wrong person


Yeah pretty sure it is LYLO today unless there's outgroup.

Oooorgh.


----------



## rari_teh

look who’s alive!
catname and role, please?


----------



## Keldeo

Bluwiikoon said:


> My government-assigned cat is Cassandra, my power is Vanilla, my alignment is town.


OMG


----------



## Keldeo

Hahahaha the one game I soft my flavor

_I'm_ Cassandra the vanilla town, *Bluwiikoon* is mafia

@Eifie please prepare dab gifs


----------



## rari_teh

-_-


----------



## Keldeo

I'm so hyped, I haven't gotten to case someone I knew was mafia in like, literally ever

I... honestly kind of don't know why he would claim there but I'll take it lol


----------



## Keldeo

rari_teh said:


> -_-


lol this makes me feel like I'm missing something, which I probably am but

aaaaaa


----------



## Keldeo

@Vipera Magnifica just curious, can you explain Tofu's answers to the code thing?


----------



## rari_teh

to be pretty honest i fully believe this is a gambit to get yourself lynched instead of kyeugh
which is bloody smart if you ask me

i don’t buy it, though, and i hope the rest won’t as well


----------



## mewtini

LMAO


----------



## Keldeo

Uh, what? Why would I ever want myself to be lynched?

If you're town I need to work with you. What can I do to prove myself?


----------



## mewtini

mewtini said:


> blu is locktown


im gonna feel so foolish if the unthinkable happens, but


----------



## mewtini

jk i'm kinda just being facetious but i am finding this a doubtful move rn


----------



## rari_teh

Keldeo said:


> Uh, what? Why would I ever want myself to be lynched?
> 
> If you're town I need to work with you. What can I do to prove myself?





mewtini said:


> if keldeo/skylar are indeed co-wolves like i think they are, there's no way that skylar isn't the one with the PR (or, at the very least, the better PR) given how she's been gently pushing on keldeo all game, and is now trying to gain towncred from sending keldeo to the basement. (i know that i'm doing a 180, but given that i've known about her necromancer claim since d3, i was trying to avoid having her to claim just in case she was telling the truth; in that scenario, she almost certainly wouldn't get to use her power if it had come to that).
> 
> i'm going to go with *kyeugh* tbh, sorry buddy. keldeo is probably also a wolf, but i'm guessing that dispatching skylar is actually probably more ideal if my theory is right. i'll come back later to re-evaluate but i figured it'd be better to get this out there/break the silence a bit.





rari_teh said:


> doesn’t anyone else think that Keldeo’s silence since the beginning of the Day is at the very least suspicious? almost as if he’s a goon or a weak mafia PR and he’s taking one for the team and embracing the lynch. if all other people who are high enough in most people’s PoEs are mafia as well – which i’m inclined to believe they are –, the best strategy is to let the goon die giving towncred to a mafia PR in the process. due to her easily faked claims and, in hindsight, consistent anti-town wagonbuilding, i’m also inclined to believe that *kyeugh* is a valuable mafia member.


----------



## Keldeo

I'll grab my flavor soft once I'm done catching up. I am going to do everything in my power to prevent us from losing by lunching me today. Thanks for your consideration haha

Building on Mewtini's list of like
mechanics: (keldeo), mewtini, rari, bfree, mp7, VM
everyone else: skylar, trebek, mist, koko
mafia: blu

The exact world being Skylar/Trebek/Mist/Koko/Blu is... I think there are not enough PRs, if everyone was telling the truth? It also just doesn't make a ton of sense for four of the mafia to claim VT, because 3-4 living people in the mafia would be PRs. 

So the tinfoil/alternate worlds I'm seeing are like 
- I don't think a mafia vig makes sense in a 10:4 setup so then VM would have to be like, exactly claiming Tofu's shots, I think. I kind of don't think this is true because if he did figure out Tofu's role after she claimed, he likely would have just shot her, right? And he'd have to have been setting the Tofu pocket up far in advance. I guess that's not impossible but. Probably the least likely person here?
- mewtini godfather, with whatever JOAT being a member of the mafia, and her claim at EOD2 was in order to bait the real doctor into not healing Emmy (but I don't know if that amount of kill power makes sense on mafia - maybe it's a one-shot vig or something?)
- Butterfree is a dark fishing brother, MP is goon or something, and Butterfree's partner was someone else and explained the extra kill last night, which godfather mewtini just claimed...? (this is super convoluted and I don't think it's actually possible)
- Butterfree / MP7 being (oooh) dark fishing brothers makes sense if Jack was aiming to subvert expectations, which seems like a Jack thing to do. 
- Rari, because like, a limited neighborizer is by no means a clear... This is probably compatible with mewtini being town if Rari has just been playing really well in neighbor chat or something? Like sure, this would be their first scum game right, but I don't think there's anything mechanical that actually rules them out and what is this push on me/kyeugh lol


----------



## Keldeo

Vipera Magnifica said:


> I am going to be extremely shocked if *Keldeo *is not mafia.


Everyone how shocked!


----------



## Bluwiikoon

Bruh lol


----------



## Keldeo

Spoiler: look at this graph



Town PRs: (5/10)
ILS
RNP
Emmy
Herbe
Tofu (according to VM)

Vanilla town: (2/5)
Stryke
Keldeo

Living PR claims: (6/5)
Vipera Magnifica (vigilante)
Butterfree (fishing bro, always with MP7 if mafia) 
M Plus 7 (probable fishing bro, always with Butterfree if mafia) 
mewtini (is godfather, or there is a redirector on mafia who got very lucky, if she is mafia)
rari_teh (neighborizer)
kyeugh (one-shot necromancer who was blocked)

Living vanilla claims: (4/3)
Bluwiikoon
kokorico
Trebek
Mist1422

Unknown:
Mawile
Seshas
myuma
Mr. Ultracool

Mr. Ultracool, if ingroup (not a big if at this point), was likely either a weak PR or vanilla because any possible world had at least one busser... I'm leaning toward weak PR because of the five mafia left, 3 PRs, 2 vanilla is somewhat more viable for worldbuilding than 4 PRs, 1 vanilla. This actually probably doesn't matter because mafia PRs can always have claimed vanilla.

--

So if N of 3 of the unconfirmed vanilla claims are vanilla mafia, 4-N of the power role claims are mafia power roles. At least 2 of the PR claims need to be real, otherwise we wouldn't have enough town PRs total. So any N from 0-3 would work even if some of them are mechanically dubious.

I find Skylar's claim and focus on me and later Trebek fairly problematic and I can talk about this more later. Her insistence on Herbe being mafia yesterday and her pushing RNP are also like straightforwardly bad looks. I think Rari's vote on/conversation with kyeugh makes them probably not w/w - if they are, I'm going to mindread that the exact world is that Rari is bussing kyeugh toDay to set me up toMorrow. 

At least one PR claim is lying, so then if I had to choose one between Rari and kyeugh in the "simple world" where all of the straightforward town-seeming PRs are town... Both of their claims are pretty much flavor-clear and Skylar's claim is better in terms of the role being more likely town if it's true, but Skylar's role is literally unprovable now according to her. But I don't think mafia have a flavor cop after Blu's claim, so maybe they got lucky about it. Gun-to-head, maybe kyeugh because of her behavioral scumminess?

So the world I was thinking about, Blu/kyeugh/koko/Mist/Trebek, is actually a possible world after counting the PRs but really I don't see why mafia would all claim VT. Unless they have scummy roles, which is possible with Herbe being town. - BUT Trebek and Skylar are like definitely not w/w behaviorally after that conversation. That means at least one more PR is lying. Could possibly swap Rari for Skylar here?

Almost becoming enamored of dark fishing brothers theory because the wagon formation and ugh MP7's hedgy post on Herbe... Blu/kyeugh/Butterfree/MP7/(either Mist or kokorico) maybe makes sense? That would allow for maximum non-bussers, which makes sense to me conceptually. This is only if like mafia fishing brothers are actually a thing - it's an interesting setup design if that's the case. I think dark fishing brothers means mewtini and VM would both be town, because with that amount of town kills, it could make sense for mafia to be able to equalize their numbers / retaliate.

I don't think I can solve this completely mechanically.

--

Mr. Ultracool (8) (Tofu, Herbe, rari_teh, Mist1422, M Plus 7, kokorico, mewtini, Trebek)
Herbe (7) (Butterfree, Bluwiikoon, kyeugh, Keldeo, Mr. Ultracool, I liek Squirtles, Vipera Magnifica)

This is still a weird as hell wagon formation. Unconfirmed on Herbe are [Butterfree, kyeugh, VM] (where VM is basically... pretty close to clear as far as I'm concerned - I should probably fully interrogate my thoughts about this) vs. unconfirmed on Mr. Ultracool are [rari, Mist, MP7, koko, Trebek].



@M Plus 7 why did you not vote with your fishing brother at EOD2?


----------



## Keldeo

Votes should be on me or Blu today btw.


----------



## Keldeo

Oh lol another point against VM being partners with Butterfree/MP7 is that he was the first person to call out the possibility of dark fishing brothers iirc


----------



## mewtini

rari_teh said:


> to be pretty honest i fully believe this is a gambit to get yourself lynched instead of kyeugh





Keldeo said:


> Votes should be on me or Blu today btw.


hm

i'm going to sleep soon so i will engage with the rest of this later though, sorry; gn keldeoooo!


----------



## Keldeo

I know they're both busy. But I haven't been able to find MP7 and they've not been interacting with me. Butterfree has made long posts but doesn't actually have a good record. Galaxy brain??









Keldeo said:


> Oh lol another point against VM being partners with Butterfree/MP7 is that he was the first person to call out the possibility of dark fishing brothers iirc


I think I'm on VM is not mafia anyway, because a mafia vig is wild and I'm like... I think mafia VM would just have shot Tofu earlier if he had figured that out. I think that's what I'm hanging the read on.

I think I'm also close to locking mewtini because godfather her + mafia one-shot vig is just weird and convoluted and if I assume that mewtini claimed early to Rari, that would mean she was exactly with Rari. I know she represented her clear on Rari as real, but I don't really love that world. Why would she just not claim actual masons trying to fake out people with a doctor claim or something, and let the kill go unclaimed?


----------



## rari_teh

ok i’ll bite, but only temporarily
why do you assume that if vm is mafia he must be a dark vig?
skylar herself said that, if he’s mafia, he’s “riding tofu’s corpse”

in other words, if vm is mafia, he’s literally anything but a vig and all his future vigkills will be “blocked” or “deflected”


----------



## Keldeo

Oh no, brain fart, claiming masons doesn't make sense unless they're also with kyeugh, because Rari neighborized her. Don't think that was the move for Rari if they were building up to a mason claim.



Keldeo said:


> Butterfree has made long posts but doesn't actually have a good record.


i.e. voting Herbe, essentially, and this isn't a good record thing, but... not doing super much with a confirmed town status, particularly today? That's why I was vaguely suspicious of Panini in TVT.


----------



## Keldeo

rari_teh said:


> ok i’ll bite, but only temporarily
> why do you assume that if vm is mafia he must be a dark vig?
> skylar herself said that, if he’s mafia, he’s “riding tofu’s corpse”
> 
> in other words, if vm is mafia, he’s literally anything but a vig and all his future vigkills will be “blocked” or “deflected”


So like if VM is mafia, Tofu would be the vig whose ILS and Herbe kills he's claiming, right?

I actually thought she claimed to him earlier, she claimed to him d2. I guess I just don't know why he wouldn't attempt to nightkill Tofu that night, because unless he's with mewtini Emmy was apparently being protected? And given everything else we know, I think the two options are that the kill was on Indigo that night or the kill was on ILS's doctor target. I don't think ILS would target Tofu that night.


----------



## Keldeo

I'm like pretty sure that if (mewtini is town and) ILS targeted a living player that night, that person is clear because the "why target Emmy" argument from earlier still applies I think? But I don't have a lot of confidence in my ability to mindread that heal.


----------



## Keldeo

I liek Squirtles said:


> Ok so ultracool seems a bit fishy to me, if only because of VM's decisive statement in #1590. ALSO *there's something here that Mr. Ultracool posted that also makes me suspect Tofu as well*, since I'm a bit more inclined to believe VM is vig:
> 
> 
> 
> Mr. Ultracool said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> IndigoEmmy said:
> 
> 
> 
> Announcement to all cops (if there are any): Please check kyeugh tonight.
> 
> 
> 
> Telling the cop whom to check seems quite fishy, too - what if the Maf has a Watcher?
> *IndigoEmmy*
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *Mr. Ultracool*
Click to expand...

This is why I think he wouldn't heal Tofu, ftr.


----------



## Trebek

Keldeo said:


> I actually thought she claimed to him earlier, she claimed to him d2. I guess I just don't know why he wouldn't attempt to nightkill Tofu that night, because unless he's with mewtini Emmy was apparently being protected?


i can 100% see tofu being vig and w!vm not nightkilling - it’d be way too suspicious if someone codeclaimed to someone else and then immediately died imo


----------



## rari_teh

Keldeo said:


> I actually thought she claimed to him earlier, she claimed to him d2. I guess I just don't know why he wouldn't attempt to nightkill Tofu that night


maybe because all the scumreads she was voicing were wrong tbh
a vig who doesn’t know where to shoot is as good to the mafia as a second don


----------



## kyeugh

i’m not sure i understand why vm would target tofu. regardless of his alignment i think he had her pocketed basically immediately and if he was scum it would be good for him to have her around


----------



## Keldeo

Trebek said:


> Keldeo said:
> 
> 
> 
> I actually thought she claimed to him earlier, she claimed to him d2. I guess I just don't know why he wouldn't attempt to nightkill Tofu that night, because unless he's with mewtini Emmy was apparently being protected?
> 
> 
> 
> i can 100% see tofu being vig and w!vm not nightkilling - it’d be way too suspicious if someone codeclaimed to someone else and then immediately died imo
Click to expand...

Is this something you can see or something that you believe in?


----------



## kyeugh

also this blu thing is hilarious but i don’t think it’s totally impossible keldeo is faking it? i kind of want to wait it out but i’m not sure what could happen that would push me more to one way


----------



## Trebek

Keldeo said:


> Trebek said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Keldeo said:
> 
> 
> 
> I actually thought she claimed to him earlier, she claimed to him d2. I guess I just don't know why he wouldn't attempt to nightkill Tofu that night, because unless he's with mewtini Emmy was apparently being protected?
> 
> 
> 
> i can 100% see tofu being vig and w!vm not nightkilling - it’d be way too suspicious if someone codeclaimed to someone else and then immediately died imo
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Is this something you can see or something that you believe in?
Click to expand...

that will be determined based on if vig kills continue to happen


----------



## kyeugh

Trebek said:


> Keldeo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Trebek said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Keldeo said:
> 
> 
> 
> I actually thought she claimed to him earlier, she claimed to him d2. I guess I just don't know why he wouldn't attempt to nightkill Tofu that night, because unless he's with mewtini Emmy was apparently being protected?
> 
> 
> 
> i can 100% see tofu being vig and w!vm not nightkilling - it’d be way too suspicious if someone codeclaimed to someone else and then immediately died imo
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Is this something you can see or something that you believe in?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> that will be determined based on if vig kills continue to happen
Click to expand...

not really sold on this tbh, the mafia have a roleblocker


----------



## Keldeo

kyeugh said:


> also this blu thing is hilarious but i don’t think it’s totally impossible keldeo is faking it? i kind of want to wait it out but i’m not sure what could happen that would push me more to one way


Oh oops I completely forgot to get my soft.



Keldeo said:


> Me and my *seer* cover (new band name)


This is an awful band name imo tbh. No one calls cops seers / cop cover seer cover here so I didn't want to use it too much but. 

I'll case Blu tomorrow maybe... kinda fading and I basically pretzeled my brain trying to think about this mechanically and failing


----------



## Trebek

kyeugh said:


> Trebek said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Keldeo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Trebek said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Keldeo said:
> 
> 
> 
> I actually thought she claimed to him earlier, she claimed to him d2. I guess I just don't know why he wouldn't attempt to nightkill Tofu that night, because unless he's with mewtini Emmy was apparently being protected?
> 
> 
> 
> i can 100% see tofu being vig and w!vm not nightkilling - it’d be way too suspicious if someone codeclaimed to someone else and then immediately died imo
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Is this something you can see or something that you believe in?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> that will be determined based on if vig kills continue to happen
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> not really sold on this tbh, the mafia have a roleblocker
Click to expand...

i mean, i still dont know if that is the case (i know your claim relies on a mafia role blocker existing, but my feelings on that have already been said)


----------



## mewtini

kyeugh said:


> not really sold on this tbh, the mafia have a roleblocker


yeah this is problematic [well, if they do indeed have a roleblocker]
on the other hand, i've done some Thinking after making my longpost and mafia blu makes less sense to me than town vm does given the position we're in tbh
will have to revisit this tomorrrrrrow


----------



## mewtini

mewtini said:


> on the other hand, i've done some Thinking after making my longpost and *mafia blu makes less sense to me than mafia VM does* given the position we're in tbh


jesus. corrected


----------



## kyeugh

Trebek said:


> kyeugh said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Trebek said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Keldeo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Trebek said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Keldeo said:
> 
> 
> 
> I actually thought she claimed to him earlier, she claimed to him d2. I guess I just don't know why he wouldn't attempt to nightkill Tofu that night, because unless he's with mewtini Emmy was apparently being protected?
> 
> 
> 
> i can 100% see tofu being vig and w!vm not nightkilling - it’d be way too suspicious if someone codeclaimed to someone else and then immediately died imo
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Is this something you can see or something that you believe in?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> that will be determined based on if vig kills continue to happen
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> not really sold on this tbh, the mafia have a roleblocker
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> i mean, i still dont know if that is the case (i know your claim relies on a mafia role blocker existing, but my feelings on that have already been said)
Click to expand...

 my point is more that until you know for sure there isn’t, if there’s no vig kill it doesn’t necessarily imply mafia because it could just as well be him getting blocked to bait the lynch. i wouldn’t really set myself up to make a decision based on that


----------



## kyeugh

mewtini said:


> mewtini said:
> 
> 
> 
> on the other hand, i've done some Thinking after making my longpost and *mafia blu makes less sense to me than mafia VM does* given the position we're in tbh
> 
> 
> 
> jesus. corrected
Click to expand...

can you explain why mafia blu makes less sense to you? sorry if you already did


----------



## Trebek

kyeugh said:


> Trebek said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> kyeugh said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Trebek said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Keldeo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Trebek said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Keldeo said:
> 
> 
> 
> I actually thought she claimed to him earlier, she claimed to him d2. I guess I just don't know why he wouldn't attempt to nightkill Tofu that night, because unless he's with mewtini Emmy was apparently being protected?
> 
> 
> 
> i can 100% see tofu being vig and w!vm not nightkilling - it’d be way too suspicious if someone codeclaimed to someone else and then immediately died imo
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Is this something you can see or something that you believe in?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> that will be determined based on if vig kills continue to happen
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> not really sold on this tbh, the mafia have a roleblocker
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> i mean, i still dont know if that is the case (i know your claim relies on a mafia role blocker existing, but my feelings on that have already been said)
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> my point is more that until you know for sure there isn’t, if there’s no vig kill it doesn’t necessarily imply mafia because it could just as well be him getting blocked to bait the lynch. i wouldn’t really set myself up to make a decision based on that
Click to expand...

yeah i get that, but that wasn’t the point i was going for - a vig kill implies town, a lack of a vig kill warrants further discussion


----------



## Trebek

my opinions about a mafia roleblocker are existent independently of how it affects my future reads on VM, if that makes sense


----------



## kyeugh

ultimately i think vm pretty much gets blocked no matter what tonight so i’m definitely going to be suspicious of any attempts to read into a lack of a kill as AI

i’m definitely not closed to the idea of him being scum but that’s not going to be how i get there tbh, since it’s impossible to make a meaningful conclusion by analyzing the presence/absence of a nightkill until we know for certain there’s no roleblocker afoot (and i know for certain there is one personally)


----------



## kyeugh

you know, if keldeo/blu are w/w, this is kind of a genius gambit


----------



## mewtini

kyeugh said:


> can you explain why mafia blu makes less sense to you? sorry if you already did


i'll try to get back to this later when it isn't 3am but it's honestly semi-flimsy because it's partially based on my overarching you/keldeo w/w theory


----------



## Vipera Magnifica

I'm kinda surprised there's doubt whether I'm the real vig but if you want I can decode the coded messages and provide evidence that I claimed vig to Tofu and she claimed Lynchproof to me


----------



## Vipera Magnifica

Also for what it's worth I think Keldeo voting blu is a late bussing attempt


----------



## Bluwiikoon

Keldeo is literally mafia and I am literally vanilla town my dudes. I would not pay much credence to anything he says anymore since it's clearly designed to split and confuse town


----------



## Bluwiikoon

Keldeo doesn't post for the whole Day, and then suddenly comes in to throw shade at me once mewtini jokes I'm locktown?


----------



## Bluwiikoon

I kind of hate this tbh because I'm not in a wholly good brainspace to get framed by scum like this.  But I guess I'm the Easy Target because I'm potentially one of the only real VT left

I reserve the right to say "I told you so!" if I get lynched or vigged.


----------



## Vipera Magnifica

Bluwiikoon said:


> Keldeo is literally mafia


Of that much we are in agreement


----------



## Bluwiikoon

If I was mafia, why would Keldeo choose to bus _me _instead of counterclaiming one of the other vanilla town claims? Surely it makes more sense to throw suspicion on an actual townie rather than one of your scumbuddies, given that it's kind of a game of numbers right now.

He is playing a huge game of deception!!


----------



## Novae

I think keldeo and blu are w/w lol

I will explain why after “work”/once I’m on break


----------



## mewtini

ok i still don't feel like fully casing, and my motivation to post is kind of dwindling because i feel strong Wolf Influence in the posts recently (rip MyLo sitch) but i'm still gonna ... trudge forward with my in-the-moment takes ... For Town! this is maybe the most that i've ever had to silence my self-consciousness in mafia! wow!

i still think it's bizarre that keldeo/kyeugh/VM are pushing the blu/keldeo vote split today, even after having been repeatedly called out on it, and my Soulread says that blu is unfortunate town - partly just bc i wanna believe in him, partly because i think that if they're w/w blu doesn't respond like, with what i read as genuine surprise, and partly because during the silence yesterday (which i think was mafia-sanctioned) blu seemed pretty distinct from that all. also in what world does blu near-immediately claiming a cat look less suspicious than already-suspected keldeo "counterclaiming" hours and hours later with a weak flavor softclaim smh. VM comes in after the scuffle with skylar (which, by the way, i'm pretty sure mafia is attempting to cover up) and says this


Vipera Magnifica said:


> i really don't think skylar is a safe lynch at all and i think it's more likely than not she is town


without so much as acknowledging what happened even though - and it'll be loltown if i'm wrong - skylar's thing (or as i see it, slip) was the topic of semi-heated discussion for a good several posts. he then proceeds to ignore my question:


mewtini said:


> sorry if this is a redundant question. i thought you were actually sort of sus of skylar earlier on; what makes you think she's town over trebek?


i would bet money on trebek flipping green and given that VM tried to case skylar in earlygame and that his only reason to stop suspecting her, as far as i can see, is that she picked up on (or "picked up on") VM's vig softclaims - given that he never came close to following my lead on 'clearing' skylar. he then says that he sees the trebekkening as possible wolf theater, but i would counter that i think his earlygame push on skylar is just as likely to be wolf theater, especially given skylar's pretty blase/limited reactions - which while not NAI alone, still do ping me as weird

regardless of all this i think the lynch should still fall between keldeo/skylar, and absolutely not blu since we're in MyLo


----------



## Bluwiikoon

Mist1422 said:


> I think keldeo and blu are w/w lol
> 
> I will explain why after “work”/once I’m on break


You can explain your reasonings, but you will still be wrong 

More thoughts:
-If I'm wolf, why would one of my first actions toDay be to vote Keldeo instead of someone actually town?
-If I'm wolf, why has no-one ever defended me from peoples' suspicions 
-If I'm wolf why do I make such dumb posts and dumb plays LOL. Wolfchat would never allow my stupidity to reign free

Honestly I am feeling very attacked. Both town and mafia are kinda slammin me and I feel isolated :( At least if I was wolf I'd have wolfchat to talk to, but as it is I'm like, the only person advocating for myself. Feels bad


----------



## mewtini

blu no. see my post above you. i have faith ... if you're a wolf i'll feel like a tool but i'm just totally owning my takes now


----------



## Bluwiikoon

MEWTINIIIII

We stan a queen


----------



## mewtini

btw if keldeo is mafia then he and ultracool are probably the two wolves without power roles :^/


----------



## Bluwiikoon

That was a bit of a ninja! I do apologise

Even so I'm just (big emoji with wibbly eyes)


----------



## mewtini

mewtini said:


> which while not NAI alone


fucking, ***AI
also i think since blu has been one of the lower townreads for a while that it's still likely opportunistic for keldeo to counterclaim him in an attempt to force a w/v wagon


----------



## mewtini

anyway. i think we're at like
skylar (4): mewt, rari, trebek, koko
keldeo (3): vm, blu, skylar
blu (1): keldeo


----------



## kyeugh

i’m not sure why i wouldn’t push the blu/keldeo thing given there’s a very high chance at least one of them is a wolf and the alternative is accepting the wagon on myself

btw i have to say that i find rari’s progression of “keldeo is probably mafia, therefore we should try to vote for the person that’s probably bussing him” rather than just voting the person that’s probably mafia to be kind of confusing unless i’m misunderstanding what they meant in that post


----------



## mewtini

mewtini said:


> also in what world does blu near-immediately claiming a cat look ***more suspicious than already-suspected keldeo "counterclaiming" hours and hours later with a weak flavor softclaim smh.


um, correcting. i am not on the ball this Day at all, tf



kyeugh said:


> btw i have to say that i find rari’s progression of “keldeo is probably mafia, therefore we should try to vote for the person that’s probably bussing him” rather than just voting the person that’s probably mafia to be kind of confusing unless i’m misunderstanding what they meant in that post


rari's/my thought process is that you are both pretty much equally likely to be scum, and that keldeo is just a goon
in terms of anti-town behavior i think it's actually more difficult to find that kind of thing in keldeo's iso than it is in yours


----------



## mewtini

it is also the reason that i think she and i are both accepting of a keldeo lynch
but it's not my preference


----------



## kyeugh

i’m lowkey kind of doomer status about this game because the wagon on me is completely unfalsifiable and no one really seems willing to fine be the benefit of the doubt so there’s nothing i can really do about it short of wait for some actual scum to fuck up. game is pretty much lost unless someone decides to unvote me fsr tbh


----------



## kyeugh

kyeugh said:


> fine be


give me


----------



## kyeugh

i really do think that given we’re in mylo the wisest move is to vote either blu or keldeo given they almost certainly contain a wolf and are like, explicitly diametric due to the counterclaiming. if you think keldeo is likely to be a wolf then i kind of don’t see why you don’t vote for him given the blu thing tbh

esp when the other option boils down to choosing to interpret my posting cynically even though all the information i’ve provided could easily be (and is) correct/truthful and my tone is just bad

i wouldn’t really care that much about this if it isn’t literally going to end the game in a town loss if you lynch me


----------



## kyeugh

in fact if we lynch scum today i’m 100% open to being vigkilled tonight if that helps you guys solve and it doesn’t cost the game


----------



## mewtini

mewtini said:


> given that VM tried to case skylar in earlygame and that his only reason to stop suspecting her, as far as i can see, is that she picked up on (or "picked up on") VM's vig softclaims - given that he never came close to following my lead on 'clearing' skylar.


hey remember 3968 when VM said


Vipera Magnifica said:


> I really should look back at who was originally saying "If RNP flips green, then town should vig Herbe"


and ignored it when it came out that it was probably just skylar


----------



## mewtini

this is the comfiest tunnel ever. i hope that skylar isn't town and i didn't just burn this bridge tbh.


----------



## kyeugh




----------



## mewtini

skylar noooooooo


----------



## Vipera Magnifica

mewtini said:


> i still think it's bizarre that keldeo/kyeugh/VM are pushing the blu/keldeo vote split today


slow down now, the only one pushing for a blu/keldeo vote split is keldeo, i am TELLING you to vote keldeo because i don't believe for a second he is town

most of us had blu in our PoE already so if keldeo wanted us to slip up and ML blu, he wouldn't have had to say anything. it's obvious keldeo is going to get voted out today, so in a last-ditch effort to set scum up for an easy win, he shows up just to make blu look towny with that bus. he wouldn't have needed to say anything if blu was town... and yeah i get that could just be a WIFOM to lead us to that same conclusion but i'm pretty sure it isn't


----------



## Trebek

i mean i still think it’s set up as a distraction from what happened earlier in the day but ¯\_(ツ)_/¯


----------



## kyeugh

if you meant the bridge of our friendship then don't worry, our bond can withstand you being very wrong or evil in a mafia game just like it withstood me being evil last game 

i'm on my third cup of coffee, so i'm gonna buckle down and do some worldbuilding real quick, mostly for my own sake.  longpost ahoy.

i probably won't be around toMorrow if there is a toMorrow; either i get lynched toDay and the game ends overnight, or we lynch scum and i get vigged overnight.  if we lynch scum toDay and i do not get vigged overnight i am going to be kind of annoyed tbh, because that means it's just going to be another day of some wolf pushing a mislynch against me smh.  anyway, hopefully this will be of some use to someone when i flip.

anyway, just to sort of refresh myself on the remaining players:

butterfree (fishing brother; confirmed by herbe)
keldeo (seer)
kyeugh (necromancer)
mewtini (joat; confirmed by herbe)
kokorico (vt?)
trebek (vt?)
rari (flash neighborizer)
mp7 (fishing brother; confirmed by butterfree)
bluwiikoon (vt)
vm (vigilante)
mist (vt?)
of which probably five are scum.  the list of players who from my pov cannot be scum:


Spoiler: clears




butterfree (cop clear from emmy)
kyeugh (ohaider)
mewtini (cop clear from emmy)
mp7 (association with butterfree)



this is honestly not a bad number of locktowns tbh, it leaves me with only 7 potential mafia, the significant majority of which are actually mafia.  that means if i can pick out just _two_ of the following players, the rest are almost definitely mafia:


Spoiler: potential mafia




keldeo
kokorico
trebek
rari
bluwiikoon
vm
mist



sorry for the excessive listing here, i know it's kind of implicit/deducible without me spelling it out this way but it helps me to periodically make posts like this so i can refer to them.  sort of like public notes, heh.

right now, my tentative group of almost certain mafia are (keldeo/bluwiikoon)+kokorico+trebek+mist.  if keldeo and blu are w/w, then that list is comprehensive; if not, then either rari or vm is mafia.  i'm honestly not too sure how i'd go about making the decision on which of them that is tbh, i imagine they'll both last until the end of the game if the mafia don't win first.

the current wagon on me is kind of cementing my views on trebek/koko/keldeo as sure mafia.  consider that just under half of the current remaining players are mafia; if the mafia votes monolithically, literally every single town player has to vote against them, on the same wagon, to counteract a mislynch.  that's not currently necessary because, well, every town player is _not_ voting on the same wagon; mewtini's vote on me alone is enough to cement a mafia win right now.  mafia is not voting uniformly right now so as not to draw attention to the fact that they're piling up for a mislynch (i imagine keldeo's push/vote on blu is probably mostly motivated by breaking up that uniformity), but they are voting just enough to tip my wagon past keldeo's, who is someone that even most voters on my wagon consider to be likely mafia.  curious tbh!

i'm not sure i think this wagon is actually wolf-_driven_; rari and mewt both seem to feel i'm scummy kind of independently, but trebek is definitely doing his best to make me look bad, and is trying to minimize discussion that might draw townies off my wagon. i know this didn't really ping anyone else, probably because no one else has mechanical confirmation of a mafia roleblocker, but something else that's making me scratch my head about him is the way he kind of pre-emptively set up justification for a potential vm lynch tomorrow if no vigkill occurs. he backtracked on it a little bit when i contested it, but the point still stands. this kind of makes me want to townlean vm more than not. i'm starting to suspect somewhat that trebek is actually the blocker himself, no hard evidence there but i have been getting vibes from his responses to my discussion of the roleblocker that are giving me that impression. he's been playing a very self-conscious game, and i think it would fit there. maybe not though, it could just be him trying a bit too hard to prevent tmi.

there is definitely, for sure, 100% at least one wolf between keldeo/blu, possibly two.  so i see absolutely no reason we should be voting for anyone else right now; anything else is pretty much just a guess, no matter how solid you feel your read is.  the only complete guarantee that every single one of us has right now is that there's a wolf in keldeo/blu.  i can't really wrap my mind around a sincere motivation for putting off that resolution.

so, um, to summarize, my wagon is currently being weighted by several bad actors (trebek/koko), though town (mewt, maybe rari?) is not doing it any favors tbh.  keldeo is 95% scum here, which i don't think y'all really disagree with?  but i don't think it's really clear to anyone else how much the rest of this is smoke and mirrors, and that you guys are giving trebek way too much of a free pass here for basically no reason.

i'll feel silly if he flips town in the end, but meh, i really really doubt it at this point.  for that to be true, it would have to mean that my wagon is like 50-75% townies right now even though the game is 50% scum and keldeo is almost certainly a wolf, which just doesn't make any sense flat out.

anyway, i guess my bottom line here is that if there's a shred of you that believes there's a _possibility_ i might not be mafia, please vote for keldeo.  it doesn't seem like most of you disbelieve he's mafia, and lynching him doesn't preclude you getting around to me later if you _really_ still feel that. i'm pretty much begging you to wait to do that for a time when town isn't so close to losing, though. we are really coming down to the wire here, and if town doesn't consolidate and make the right decision, we are going to lose toDay.


----------



## mewtini

Vipera Magnifica said:


> slow down now, the only one pushing for a blu/keldeo vote split is keldeo, i am TELLING you to vote keldeo because i don't believe for a second he is town


fair. skylar is as well though
can you answer my question from earlier?


----------



## Vipera Magnifica

i'm going to read through kyeugh and rari's ISO and try to see who comes off as more wolfy to me

if skylar is mafia it might mean there's no roleblocker at all and i can just vig her tonight. her story is she was roleblocked but that doesn't mean anything if she's lying about that. i stopped tunneling on skylar earlier because i was embarrassed about it and the fact she so casually said she'd donate $30 if i was right made me reconsider, but that could have easily been a bluff, and during times like these she probably wanted to donate money anyway. i mean i do, it's why i made the wager in the first place. i probably should have thought more about how easy it would be to bluff that.

I'm still a little bit sus about rari but their explanation of why they were voting Tofu makes more sense to me now and i'm feeling a bit better about them. If i had to pick a scum between them I'm leaning _slightly _toward skylar but that might change after reading both their ISOs.

I really do think keldeo is the safest lynch today but I could always try vigging skylar/rari tonight. yeah it probably won't work but if what i said earlier is correct about there being no roleblocker if it's skylar, it might work in that scenario. and _hoo boy do i reaaaaally wanna be the one to finish skylar off if she is scum... vindication station here i come_


----------



## kyeugh

Vipera Magnifica said:


> stopped tunneling on skylar earlier because i was embarrassed about it and the fact she so casually said she'd donate $30 if i was right made me reconsider, but that could have easily been a bluff, and during times like these she probably wanted to donate money anyway. i mean i do, it's why i made the wager in the first place. i probably should have thought more about how easy it would be to bluff that.


 haha, i was kind of wondering if you were thinking about that.  it is indeed true that i probably would've made that wager regardless of my alignment tbh.  i do already know the outcome of the bet after all. :p  but the fact that i know i'll win it definitely made me feel a lot more comfortable following that up without thinking too hard about it.


----------



## Vipera Magnifica

@Butterfree please help you're the only one whose judgment i fully trust in this game anymore


----------



## kyeugh

Vipera Magnifica said:


> if skylar is mafia it might mean there's no roleblocker at all and i can just vig her tonight. her story is she was roleblocked but that doesn't mean anything if she's lying about that.


oh yeah speaking of this, i know it’s a lot to ask but i kind of think both you and mewt should shoot me tonight bc the odds one of you gets blocked is like. basically 100%


----------



## mewtini

i'd be fine with a keldeo lynch/skylar vig but my concern that VM could just be mafia is kind of making me reluctant to go for that. tbh if i had a vig action left i'd just do it myself for sweet justice, but i cannot

also this may sound self-contradictory but i'm not really sure how we got to the "keldeo is 99% mafia" conclusion to begin with, iirc it began with skylar talking about her PoE early on and throwing keldeo out there continually afterward since he was the only active poster who she wasn't actively townreading. has he done anything anti-town aside from pushing herbe as a lynch target? because i still think he's only seen as the safe lynch because literally everyone keeps saying "eh we could just lynch keldeo today" (which is actually, ironically, part of why i think he's mafia; i'm p sure he's getting continually bussed)


----------



## Vipera Magnifica

kyeugh said:


> Vipera Magnifica said:
> 
> 
> 
> if skylar is mafia it might mean there's no roleblocker at all and i can just vig her tonight. her story is she was roleblocked but that doesn't mean anything if she's lying about that.
> 
> 
> 
> oh yeah speaking of this, i know it’s a lot to ask but i kind of think both you and mewt should shoot me tonight bc the odds one of you gets blocked is like. basically 100%
Click to expand...

...

okay...

mewtini can't vig tonight but yeah i probably will vig you... i ain't falling for your mind games


----------



## kyeugh

mewtini said:


> also this may sound self-contradictory but i'm not really sure how we got to the "keldeo is 99% mafia"


he’s 99% mafia to me, because from my pov it’s exceedingly clear that there are scum sitting on my wagon to divert from him. less certain for the rest of you, i assume.


----------



## kyeugh

Vipera Magnifica said:


> kyeugh said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Vipera Magnifica said:
> 
> 
> 
> if skylar is mafia it might mean there's no roleblocker at all and i can just vig her tonight. her story is she was roleblocked but that doesn't mean anything if she's lying about that.
> 
> 
> 
> oh yeah speaking of this, i know it’s a lot to ask but i kind of think both you and mewt should shoot me tonight bc the odds one of you gets blocked is like. basically 100%
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> ...
> 
> okay...
> 
> mewtini can't vig tonight but yeah i probably will vig you... i ain't falling for your mind games
Click to expand...

she can’t? i thought since she did it last night she got all her powers restored.


----------



## mewtini

oh i agree there are mafia on both wagons



kyeugh said:


> she can’t? i thought since she did it last night she got all her powers restored.


nah dude. that happened last night.


----------



## kyeugh

mewtini said:


> because i still think he's only seen as the safe lynch because literally everyone keeps saying "eh we could just lynch keldeo today" (which is actually, ironically, part of why i think he's mafia; i'm p sure he's getting continually bussed)


btw, the only person going “eh” about it that’s actually voting for him is vm. both blu and i have pretty strong reasons to believe he’s scum; the other fence sitters are all on me.


----------



## kyeugh

mewtini said:


> oh i agree there are mafia on both wagons
> 
> 
> 
> kyeugh said:
> 
> 
> 
> she can’t? i thought since she did it last night she got all her powers restored.
> 
> 
> 
> nah dude. that happened last night.
Click to expand...

oh! sigh. i guess that would be too easy, huh. i really don’t want to have to fight this exact same fight toMorrow tbh. if we make it that far


----------



## kyeugh

my ego is kind of at peace after making that wallpost because i think laying out my case/pov like that is really all i can do at this point, so if town loses now it's no longer on me.


----------



## Vipera Magnifica

mewtini said:


> i'd be fine with a keldeo lynch/skylar vig but my concern that VM could just be mafia is kind of making me reluctant to go for that. tbh if i had a vig action left i'd just do it myself for sweet justice, but i cannot


OK FINE I'LL CROSS REFERENCE WITH MY CLAIM TO TOFU

Please see here

I can't really prove that the drunk guy at improv who shat himself was named Noah but I can probably give evidence for the other two questions

Here's a picture of us watching The Lighthouse in Tofu's pool. She bought a projector and a screen back in April and we watched this movie then. I guess this doesn't prove it was the first movie we saw but I saw Joker in theaters and haven't seen Uncut Gems at all.



Spoiler







The third question is a lot easier to prove! We called him Raul because his skin was falling off when we took him in and since then he's been nursed back to health. We named him after the companion Raul in Fallout: New Vegas who is a ghoul (and voiced by Danny Trejo).



Spoiler







Happy now?


----------



## kyeugh

it would be so funny if you left up a wolfchat pm tab in that photo of your computer


----------



## Vipera Magnifica

kyeugh said:


> mewtini said:
> 
> 
> 
> because i still think he's only seen as the safe lynch because literally everyone keeps saying "eh we could just lynch keldeo today" (which is actually, ironically, part of why i think he's mafia; i'm p sure he's getting continually bussed)
> 
> 
> 
> btw, the only person going “eh” about it that’s actually voting for him is vm. both blu and i have pretty strong reasons to believe he’s scum; the other fence sitters are all on me.
Click to expand...

since when am i going "eh" 

i'm fully convinced keldeo is scum


----------



## Keldeo

My activity is indicative of nothing except for my schedule. I can link a game with Sunday to Friday day phases where I made a shtick of not showing up until Wednesdays.

It's also preposterous that I'd ever counterclaim my partner here. Your scribe's handwriting is abysmal.

I'll write my own wallposts in the evening or something haha, being tunneled all day is energy-draining but I'll feel bad if I don't actually put in the work


----------



## Keldeo

Here's a fun "bit of trivia" about Cats (2019) Mafia: There are actually 21 cats, not 2019.


----------



## kyeugh

Vipera Magnifica said:


> kyeugh said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> mewtini said:
> 
> 
> 
> because i still think he's only seen as the safe lynch because literally everyone keeps saying "eh we could just lynch keldeo today" (which is actually, ironically, part of why i think he's mafia; i'm p sure he's getting continually bussed)
> 
> 
> 
> btw, the only person going “eh” about it that’s actually voting for him is vm. both blu and i have pretty strong reasons to believe he’s scum; the other fence sitters are all on me.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> since when am i going "eh"
> 
> i'm fully convinced keldeo is scum
Click to expand...

 fair enough, i guess i was mostly thinking in the sense that you're not fully convinced i'm not scum, and are largely voting here because you know that if i am scum, you'll be able to shoot me successfully tonight?  so this just seems like the reasonable place for you to land, not necessarily because of a ride or die conviction of his wolfiness.

now that you say it outright, though, i believe that you believe it tbh.


----------



## kyeugh

if me and keldeo are v/v it's going to be huge fucking clowntown but would kind of explain why most of the (potential) wolves are kicking back atm ig

i don't believe that though since i have more cause to believe that vm is town/trebek is scum than i do that keldeo is town


----------



## kyeugh

i'm kind of depressed that no one has any comments about my wagon analysis.  does anyone have any takes on it


----------



## Butterfree

I'm sorry I've been trying to reread kyeugh but it's so many posts and I keep zoning out and doing something else

I'm currently recovering from a tooth extraction on strong painkillers and should have today and tomorrow free so hopefully I can be around more?

Biggest Thoughts I've had today: yeah I don't really buy Keldeo's counterclaim at all as it stands, the 'softclaim' cited feels super weak and like something you might dig up in hindsight, not something you'd actually do to softclaim your cat. (Like, if it'd been some form of calling himself a seer in a way that seems jokey, fair enough... but just calling it "seer cover"?) Meanwhile kyeugh's claim feels... very convenient? Like, oh, I've got a one-shot power but I got blocked and can't use it anymore so I can't prove it. Not impossible that it's genuine, but it'd be a very easy claim for mafia to make and I'm kind of side-eyeing it.

Ugh. I remember at some point relatively early in the game having serious thoughts that kyeugh might be mafia but refraining from voicing them to keep up cop cover, but I can't remember why at all. Hopefully if I keep reading I'll find it again and see if it still makes sense?


----------



## kyeugh

oh one thing i will add to the wagon analysis: given that we're in mylo, i don't really think it makes any sense at all that me/keldeo are w/w, when the mafia could just pile up and almost certainly force a mislynch and end the game toNight rather than sitting by and allowing one of their own to get lynched.  keldeo's thing with blu is definitely not an attempt at that, either, because if it was there'd be more than one vote there by now


----------



## Trebek

kyeugh said:


> oh one thing i will add to the wagon analysis: given that we're in mylo, i don't really think it makes any sense at all that me/keldeo are w/w, when the mafia could just pile up and almost certainly force a mislynch and end the game toNight rather than sitting by and allowing one of their own to get lynched.  keldeo's thing with blu is definitely not an attempt at that, either, because if it was there'd be more than one vote there by now


i mean, i feel like if the mafia wanted to force a mislynch, they wouldn’t have done it by now: showing their hand too early would blow their cover. if mafia were to pile, i would expect it to be at the end of the day, so idkidk if “mafia hadn’t piled yet” can be evidence for anything


----------



## Trebek

idk*2 apparently

love autocorrect on mobile


----------



## kyeugh

Trebek said:


> kyeugh said:
> 
> 
> 
> oh one thing i will add to the wagon analysis: given that we're in mylo, i don't really think it makes any sense at all that me/keldeo are w/w, when the mafia could just pile up and almost certainly force a mislynch and end the game toNight rather than sitting by and allowing one of their own to get lynched.  keldeo's thing with blu is definitely not an attempt at that, either, because if it was there'd be more than one vote there by now
> 
> 
> 
> i mean, i feel like if the mafia wanted to force a mislynch, they wouldn’t have done it by now: showing their hand too early would blow their cover. if mafia were to pile, i would expect it to be at the end of the day, so idkidk if “mafia hadn’t piled yet” can be evidence for anything
Click to expand...

that’s the point, yeah. they’d only have to force it if the wagons were w/w. they aren’t, and there are one or more villagers on me, so it isn’t necessary.


----------



## Trebek

kyeugh said:


> Trebek said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> kyeugh said:
> 
> 
> 
> oh one thing i will add to the wagon analysis: given that we're in mylo, i don't really think it makes any sense at all that me/keldeo are w/w, when the mafia could just pile up and almost certainly force a mislynch and end the game toNight rather than sitting by and allowing one of their own to get lynched.  keldeo's thing with blu is definitely not an attempt at that, either, because if it was there'd be more than one vote there by now
> 
> 
> 
> i mean, i feel like if the mafia wanted to force a mislynch, they wouldn’t have done it by now: showing their hand too early would blow their cover. if mafia were to pile, i would expect it to be at the end of the day, so idkidk if “mafia hadn’t piled yet” can be evidence for anything
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> that’s the point, yeah. they’d only have to force it if the wagons were w/w. they aren’t, and there are one or more villagers on me, so it isn’t necessary.
Click to expand...

my point was that we can’t tell if they have to or not yet, because even if they have to they likely won’t until later in the day


----------



## JackPK

Reminder: The day phase will end in *23 hours 45 minutes*.

*Active votes*
Bluwiikoon votes Keldeo (#3757)
kyeugh votes Keldeo (#3920)
kokorico votes kyeugh (#3955)
Vipera Magnifica votes Keldeo (#3959)
Trebek votes kyeugh (#4044)
mewtini votes kyeugh (#4098)
rari_teh votes kyeugh (#4112)
Keldeo votes Bluwiikoon (#4129)



Spoiler: Full vote history



Active votes bolded.

*Bluwiikoon votes Keldeo (#3757)*
Trebek votes Keldeo (#3874)
mewtini votes Keldeo (#3876)
rari_teh votes Keldeo (#3887)
*kyeugh votes Keldeo (#3920)*
mewtini votes kyeugh (#3926)
*kokorico votes kyeugh (#3955)
Vipera Magnifica votes Keldeo (#3959)*
mewtini votes Keldeo (#3961)
*Trebek votes kyeugh (#4044)
mewtini votes kyeugh (#4098)
rari_teh votes kyeugh (#4112)
Keldeo votes Bluwiikoon (#4129)*


----------



## kyeugh

Trebek said:


> kyeugh said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Trebek said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> kyeugh said:
> 
> 
> 
> oh one thing i will add to the wagon analysis: given that we're in mylo, i don't really think it makes any sense at all that me/keldeo are w/w, when the mafia could just pile up and almost certainly force a mislynch and end the game toNight rather than sitting by and allowing one of their own to get lynched.  keldeo's thing with blu is definitely not an attempt at that, either, because if it was there'd be more than one vote there by now
> 
> 
> 
> i mean, i feel like if the mafia wanted to force a mislynch, they wouldn’t have done it by now: showing their hand too early would blow their cover. if mafia were to pile, i would expect it to be at the end of the day, so idkidk if “mafia hadn’t piled yet” can be evidence for anything
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> that’s the point, yeah. they’d only have to force it if the wagons were w/w. they aren’t, and there are one or more villagers on me, so it isn’t necessary.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> my point was that we can’t tell if they have to or not yet, because even if they have to they likely won’t until later in the day
Click to expand...

 that’s not really true. i don’t see why the mafia would just sit there and vibe until eod with all but one vote on scum when they could spend the day pushing a mislynch instead. (which is what’s happening.)


----------



## Keldeo

Since votes aren't locked, mafia literally don't have to commit to anything here until the last minute.


----------



## Trebek

kyeugh said:


> Trebek said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> kyeugh said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Trebek said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> kyeugh said:
> 
> 
> 
> oh one thing i will add to the wagon analysis: given that we're in mylo, i don't really think it makes any sense at all that me/keldeo are w/w, when the mafia could just pile up and almost certainly force a mislynch and end the game toNight rather than sitting by and allowing one of their own to get lynched.  keldeo's thing with blu is definitely not an attempt at that, either, because if it was there'd be more than one vote there by now
> 
> 
> 
> i mean, i feel like if the mafia wanted to force a mislynch, they wouldn’t have done it by now: showing their hand too early would blow their cover. if mafia were to pile, i would expect it to be at the end of the day, so idkidk if “mafia hadn’t piled yet” can be evidence for anything
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> that’s the point, yeah. they’d only have to force it if the wagons were w/w. they aren’t, and there are one or more villagers on me, so it isn’t necessary.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> my point was that we can’t tell if they have to or not yet, because even if they have to they likely won’t until later in the day
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> that’s not really true. i don’t see why the mafia would just sit there and vibe until eod with all but one vote on scum when they could spend the day pushing a mislynch instead. (which is what’s happening.)
Click to expand...

because if they pushed a mislynch early, people would call it out like you are rn? i just think that this is an argument of “will they or won’t they” that we shouldn’t be drawing conclusions from


----------



## Trebek

in fact, mafia could very well allow a w/w wagon to happen, let the town split votes between which person they think is wolf, and then suddenly swing votes to a town at the last moment


----------



## Novae

I’m of the opinion that koko/Trebek/rari has a mafia who carries extra KP actually or at least an important role that mafia need to survive today


----------



## Novae

Actually, I think there’s a good chance the mafia team is just those three, keldeo, and blu

keldeo/blu flavor thunderdome doesn’t make sense because in a game with a limited number of good flavors, why wouldn’t mafia be given fakeclaims?


----------



## Trebek

Mist1422 said:


> I’m of the opinion that koko/Trebek/rari has a mafia who carries extra KP actually or at least an important role that mafia need to survive today


i can’t do much to defend myself here as VT, but i am incredibly doubtful about rari being mafia

like, _incredibly_


----------



## Novae

So like

I don’t buy Blu claiming flavor that they didn’t know wasn’t in the game as mafia
I don’t buy Keldeo setting up a crumb for flavor they didn’t know was in the game as mafia

so what does that mean?

*both of them knew the flavor was not in the game and this was planned all along*


----------



## kyeugh

Trebek said:


> in fact, mafia could very well allow a w/w wagon to happen, let the town split votes between which person they think is wolf, and then suddenly swing votes to a town at the last moment


if we were playing a game that actually ended exactly when the timer ran out, yes, maybe this would be a viable strategy.  as it stands, all the mafia suddenly swinging to a third wagon here would do is alarm people and point out exactly who the mafia are.

you're kind of missing the point in a big way here, which is that there is no reason for the mafia to concede a lynch of one of their own here when we're in mylo and town isn't agreed on who scum is anyway.  pretty much everyone left has been online and given some input, but no one has meaningfully proposed a other option, aside from keldeo's blu thing.  however the game is close enough right now that if me/keldeo were w/w, you would expect there to be an attempt at a third wagon, because that is the best way for the mafia to win right now, and there's no reason to wait on it and allow these wagons to become increasingly cemented.  the wagon composition points to v/w.


----------



## kyeugh

Mist1422 said:


> Actually, I think there’s a good chance the mafia team is just those three, keldeo, and blu


 something like this tbh.



Mist1422 said:


> *both of them knew the flavor was not in the game and this was planned all along*


 how would they know that?


----------



## Novae

kyeugh said:


> Mist1422 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Actually, I think there’s a good chance the mafia team is just those three, keldeo, and blu
> 
> 
> 
> something like this tbh.
> 
> 
> 
> Mist1422 said:
> 
> 
> 
> *both of them knew the flavor was not in the game and this was planned all along*
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> how would they know that?
Click to expand...

because it would be a provided fakeclaim tbh!


----------



## kyeugh

i have never heard of a provided fakeclaim and am pretty doubtful something like that is at play here.  i don't know jack's gming style that well but it doesn't sound particularly likely to me


----------



## Trebek

kyeugh said:


> you're kind of missing the point in a big way here, which is that there is no reason for the mafia to concede a lynch of one of their own here when we're in mylo and town isn't agreed on who scum is anyway.


i’m... not missing that point? i get that mafia shouldn’t concede a lynch of one of their own, all i am saying is that they don’t necessarily have to take action rn

it feels like you’re trying to twist my posts here, and i don’t really get why


----------



## Novae

kyeugh said:


> i have never heard of a provided fakeclaim and am pretty doubtful something like that is at play here.  i don't know jack's gming style that well but it doesn't sound particularly likely to me


then what would mafia do when they had to claim their flavor?


----------



## kyeugh

Trebek said:


> kyeugh said:
> 
> 
> 
> you're kind of missing the point in a big way here, which is that there is no reason for the mafia to concede a lynch of one of their own here when we're in mylo and town isn't agreed on who scum is anyway.
> 
> 
> 
> i’m... not missing that point? i get that mafia shouldn’t concede a lynch of one of their own, all i am saying is that they don’t necessarily have to take action rn
> 
> it feels like you’re trying to twist my posts here, and i don’t really get why
Click to expand...

 i'm not twisting your posts, i'm saying that yes, they pretty much do have to take action right now.  your argument is that we can't conclude anything because maybe they're going to suddenly swing in the future or something, and i'm saying no, that would be kind of a bad play and i don't think it's reasonable to assume that strongly enough to shut down speculation/wagon analysis.


----------



## Trebek

kyeugh said:


> Trebek said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> kyeugh said:
> 
> 
> 
> you're kind of missing the point in a big way here, which is that there is no reason for the mafia to concede a lynch of one of their own here when we're in mylo and town isn't agreed on who scum is anyway.
> 
> 
> 
> i’m... not missing that point? i get that mafia shouldn’t concede a lynch of one of their own, all i am saying is that they don’t necessarily have to take action rn
> 
> it feels like you’re trying to twist my posts here, and i don’t really get why
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> i'm not twisting your posts, i'm saying that yes, they pretty much do have to take action right now.  your argument is that we can't conclude anything because maybe they're going to suddenly swing in the future or something, and i'm saying no, that would be kind of a bad play and i don't think it's reasonable to assume that strongly enough to shut down speculation/wagon analysis.
Click to expand...

but i wasn’t trying to shut down speculation! i’m trying to say that your initial claim that the wagons can’t _possibly_ be w/w felt more like a bygone conclusion than speculation, which is something we can’t conclude without reading the mafia’s minds


----------



## kyeugh

Mist1422 said:


> kyeugh said:
> 
> 
> 
> i have never heard of a provided fakeclaim and am pretty doubtful something like that is at play here.  i don't know jack's gming style that well but it doesn't sound particularly likely to me
> 
> 
> 
> then what would mafia do when they had to claim their flavor?
Click to expand...

 poke around on the wiki and hope they pick something that no one actually got, i guess.  i think the current understanding is that flavor probably doesn't necessarily imply alignment for the most part anyway, since very few of the characters are actually evil, or something?  so they could conceivably just claim their actual cat and come up with a fake role or whatever, unless they happened to have the single evil cat.  that's my understanding of it at least.


----------



## Trebek

yeah, i was under the impression that most mafia could feasibly get away with claiming their actual cat, with just a different role


----------



## Novae

okay so

if blu is mafia and keldeo is not, why does blu claim flavor first
if keldeo is mafia and blu is not, why does keldeo bother crumbing


----------



## kyeugh

Trebek said:


> kyeugh said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Trebek said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> kyeugh said:
> 
> 
> 
> you're kind of missing the point in a big way here, which is that there is no reason for the mafia to concede a lynch of one of their own here when we're in mylo and town isn't agreed on who scum is anyway.
> 
> 
> 
> i’m... not missing that point? i get that mafia shouldn’t concede a lynch of one of their own, all i am saying is that they don’t necessarily have to take action rn
> 
> it feels like you’re trying to twist my posts here, and i don’t really get why
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> i'm not twisting your posts, i'm saying that yes, they pretty much do have to take action right now.  your argument is that we can't conclude anything because maybe they're going to suddenly swing in the future or something, and i'm saying no, that would be kind of a bad play and i don't think it's reasonable to assume that strongly enough to shut down speculation/wagon analysis.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> but i wasn’t trying to shut down speculation! i’m trying to say that your initial claim that the wagons can’t _possibly_ be w/w felt more like a bygone conclusion than speculation, which is something we can’t conclude without reading the mafia’s minds
Click to expand...

 you can't completely conclude anything other than info yielded by your role without reading anyone's minds though, that's the nature of the game.  everything in this game is going to be speculation because there's always a chance someone is lying.  i made some analysis into wagon composition and you pushed back on it by trying to suggest that we can't meaningfully deduce anything, which i am inclined to view as an attempt to shut down speculation.


----------



## mewtini

Mist1422 said:


> okay so
> 
> if blu is mafia and keldeo is not, why does blu claim flavor first
> if keldeo is mafia and blu is not, why does keldeo bother crumbing





Butterfree said:


> yeah I don't really buy Keldeo's counterclaim at all as it stands, the 'softclaim' cited feels super weak and like something you might dig up in hindsight, not something you'd actually do to softclaim your cat. (Like, if it'd been some form of calling himself a seer in a way that seems jokey, fair enough... but just calling it "seer cover"?)


tbh this


----------



## Trebek

kyeugh said:


> Trebek said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> kyeugh said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Trebek said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> kyeugh said:
> 
> 
> 
> you're kind of missing the point in a big way here, which is that there is no reason for the mafia to concede a lynch of one of their own here when we're in mylo and town isn't agreed on who scum is anyway.
> 
> 
> 
> i’m... not missing that point? i get that mafia shouldn’t concede a lynch of one of their own, all i am saying is that they don’t necessarily have to take action rn
> 
> it feels like you’re trying to twist my posts here, and i don’t really get why
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> i'm not twisting your posts, i'm saying that yes, they pretty much do have to take action right now.  your argument is that we can't conclude anything because maybe they're going to suddenly swing in the future or something, and i'm saying no, that would be kind of a bad play and i don't think it's reasonable to assume that strongly enough to shut down speculation/wagon analysis.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> but i wasn’t trying to shut down speculation! i’m trying to say that your initial claim that the wagons can’t _possibly_ be w/w felt more like a bygone conclusion than speculation, which is something we can’t conclude without reading the mafia’s minds
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> you can't completely conclude anything other than info yielded by your role without reading anyone's minds though, that's the nature of the game.  everything in this game is going to be speculation because there's always a chance someone is lying.  i made some analysis into wagon composition and you pushed back on it by trying to suggest that we can't meaningfully deduce anything, which i am inclined to view as an attempt to shut down speculation.
Click to expand...

ok, i’m sorry if that’s how i came across. the reason i responded the way i did was meant to open up speculation, because i felt like you were opening and closing the spec entirely in one post


----------



## kyeugh

Mist1422 said:


> okay so
> 
> if blu is mafia and keldeo is not, why does blu claim flavor first
> if keldeo is mafia and blu is not, why does keldeo bother crumbing


 i read blu's claim as a response to keldeo's vote on him tbh.  blu seems to feel like he has no one on his side/is at risk, so he was providing the information he had, i guess.


----------



## mewtini

kyeugh said:


> i read blu's claim as a response to keldeo's vote on him tbh. blu seems to feel like he has no one on his side/is at risk, so he was providing the information he had, i guess.


huh
he claimed during massclaim


----------



## Novae

okay but keldeo instantly said he had a crumb so it pretty much had to have been planned out somehow

Yes? Maybe?


----------



## mewtini

i ... do not think so


----------



## kyeugh

Trebek said:


> kyeugh said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Trebek said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> kyeugh said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Trebek said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> kyeugh said:
> 
> 
> 
> you're kind of missing the point in a big way here, which is that there is no reason for the mafia to concede a lynch of one of their own here when we're in mylo and town isn't agreed on who scum is anyway.
> 
> 
> 
> i’m... not missing that point? i get that mafia shouldn’t concede a lynch of one of their own, all i am saying is that they don’t necessarily have to take action rn
> 
> it feels like you’re trying to twist my posts here, and i don’t really get why
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> i'm not twisting your posts, i'm saying that yes, they pretty much do have to take action right now.  your argument is that we can't conclude anything because maybe they're going to suddenly swing in the future or something, and i'm saying no, that would be kind of a bad play and i don't think it's reasonable to assume that strongly enough to shut down speculation/wagon analysis.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> but i wasn’t trying to shut down speculation! i’m trying to say that your initial claim that the wagons can’t _possibly_ be w/w felt more like a bygone conclusion than speculation, which is something we can’t conclude without reading the mafia’s minds
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> you can't completely conclude anything other than info yielded by your role without reading anyone's minds though, that's the nature of the game.  everything in this game is going to be speculation because there's always a chance someone is lying.  i made some analysis into wagon composition and you pushed back on it by trying to suggest that we can't meaningfully deduce anything, which i am inclined to view as an attempt to shut down speculation.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> ok, i’m sorry if that’s how i came across. the reason i responded the way i did was meant to open up speculation, because i felt like you were opening and closing the spec entirely in one post
Click to expand...

 you are welcome to do that tbh!  i want to have a conversation about it, and you did bring up alternate worlds that i engaged with!  but the whole, like, "you can't conclude that because it's possible it will turn out to be false" thing isn't really constructive and just has a chilling effect, which is why i pushed back on that.  the thing about the mafia swinging last-minute rather than interacting with the thread as it develops is indeed something, but i just don't feel it's particularly likely (or at least, not likelier than these wagons being v/w), and it's more something to speculate about if it eventually happens rather than discrediting interpretations of the current situation because it _could_ happen, it hink.


----------



## mewtini

it's a possibility but a far one from "_had to have been_ planned out"


----------



## kyeugh

mewtini said:


> kyeugh said:
> 
> 
> 
> i read blu's claim as a response to keldeo's vote on him tbh. blu seems to feel like he has no one on his side/is at risk, so he was providing the information he had, i guess.
> 
> 
> 
> huh
> he claimed during massclaim
Click to expand...

 oh!  i thought he claimed after all that but i might be thinking that because that's when keldeo pulled it back up.  i did not check and kinda don't want to search for it so i will take you at your word tbh


----------



## qenya

wow, ok, shit went down while I was offline

even if keldeo is a wolf, his logic's not wrong: there's no earthly way he and blu can possibly be v/v, so given we're in mylo it would be silly not to vote for one or the other

and the least towny of the two of them is obviously *Keldeo*, given the absurdity of saying "seer cover" was an attempt at foreshadowing his cat

I still think kyeugh and keldeo are likely to be w/w but it makes sense to go for the least uncertain of the two. at this point actual numbers are more important than PRs (if kyeugh even has a PR)

another thing that occurred to me while reading:



kyeugh said:


> you're kind of missing the point in a big way here, which is that there is no reason for the mafia to concede a lynch of one of their own here when we're in mylo


why not though?

if we are in mylo now, then we will still be in mylo toMorrow if we haven't already lost

mafia can easily afford to lose one of their own if they don't feel confident in their ability to force a mislynch toDay


----------



## Trebek

kyeugh said:


> mewtini said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> kyeugh said:
> 
> 
> 
> i read blu's claim as a response to keldeo's vote on him tbh. blu seems to feel like he has no one on his side/is at risk, so he was providing the information he had, i guess.
> 
> 
> 
> huh
> he claimed during massclaim
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> oh!  i thought he claimed after all that but i might be thinking that because that's when keldeo pulled it back up.  i did not check and kinda don't want to search for it so i will take you at your word tbh
Click to expand...

yeah, i believe blu actually claimed vt first (and actually preluded to his vt claim at the end of yesterDay, which i responded to at the time bc i got what he was getting at)


----------



## kyeugh

kokorico said:


> why not though?
> 
> if we are in mylo now, then we will still be in mylo toMorrow if we haven't already lost
> 
> mafia can easily afford to lose one of their own if they don't feel confident in their ability to force a mislynch toDay


 i don't think their odds really get _better_ tomorrow when we have an additional flip to go on


----------



## mewtini

kyeugh said:


> mewtini said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> kyeugh said:
> 
> 
> 
> i read blu's claim as a response to keldeo's vote on him tbh. blu seems to feel like he has no one on his side/is at risk, so he was providing the information he had, i guess.
> 
> 
> 
> huh
> he claimed during massclaim
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> oh!  i thought he claimed after all that but i might be thinking that because that's when keldeo pulled it back up.  i did not check and kinda don't want to search for it so i will take you at your word tbh
Click to expand...

yeah, he claimed at the start of d4 in 3785 after mist asked everyone to. he was actually the first claimer.


----------



## kyeugh

wait we're talking about his cat claim here, right


----------



## Trebek

kyeugh said:


> wait we're talking about his cat claim here, right


unless i’m misremembering, he claimed cat and role simultaneously


----------



## kyeugh

ok yeah it was all at the same time


----------



## mewtini

Bluwiikoon said:


> My government-assigned cat is Cassandra, my power is Vanilla, my alignment is town.


----------



## kyeugh

ninja’d haha lol hahaha ninja lol haha


----------



## Trebek

just a random nugget of thought, but i would’ve expected mist to claim vt at the same time they asked for a mass claim, instead of waiting for blu to claim vt first


----------



## Bluwiikoon

What does crumbing mean in the context of this game? ^^;

Wouldn't be surprised if maf were trying to get actual town/VT to claim cats first so they could not have any counterclaims to any false claims they posted afterwards. Or so they could do what Keldeo did and _pretend_ they have a counterclaim


----------



## mewtini

Bluwiikoon said:


> What does crumbing mean in the context of this game? ^^;


leaving hints for later! like keldeo breadcrumbing his "seer" thing for cassandra (well, supposedly)


----------



## Novae

mewtini said:


> i ... do not think so


but like

after claiming why do you instantly say you have a crumb if you don't know you've crumbed in advance


----------



## kyeugh

the crumb for his role was probably pre-planned imo but like i don't know that that necessarily implies the flavor claim was.  that's what you're saying right?


----------



## Bluwiikoon

Unless mafia have a secret rolecop I'm not sure how or why Keldeo would know I'm Cassandra and plan that far in advance ?__?


----------



## kyeugh

just occurred to me that even in the best case scenario where we lynch scum today (making the town:scum ratio 6:4), if vm is town, the mafia will probably kill him and block mewt, guaranteeing two townie kills if vm aims at me and reducing the ratio to 4:4, i.e. parity, so mafia will win overnight even if we hit scum today unless vm hits scum overnight or doesn't shoot at all


----------



## kyeugh

so um.  i rescind your invitation to shoot me toNight tbh.  maybe you will do so anyway but just want to put it on the record that if i am town and you lynch me today OR shoot me toNight, it's gg


----------



## kyeugh

unless vm is lying/not actually vig ofc, in which case there will only be one nightkill anyway and the game will continue.  so i guess i'm mostly talking to him here, in case he is actually vig.


----------



## Trebek

kyeugh said:


> just occurred to me that even in the best case scenario where we lynch scum today (making the town:scum ratio 6:4), if vm is town, the mafia will probably kill him and block mewt, guaranteeing two townie kills if vm aims at me and reducing the ratio to 4:4, i.e. parity, so mafia will win overnight even if we hit scum today unless vm hits scum overnight or doesn't shoot at all


either that or if the maf have a roleblocker, they wait until the night where they think vm will shoot one of them, and rb/kill him then. if hes gonna shoot town theres no reason to kill him :p


----------



## kyeugh

Trebek said:


> kyeugh said:
> 
> 
> 
> just occurred to me that even in the best case scenario where we lynch scum today (making the town:scum ratio 6:4), if vm is town, the mafia will probably kill him and block mewt, guaranteeing two townie kills if vm aims at me and reducing the ratio to 4:4, i.e. parity, so mafia will win overnight even if we hit scum today unless vm hits scum overnight or doesn't shoot at all
> 
> 
> 
> either that or if the maf have a roleblocker, they wait until the night where they think vm will shoot one of them, and rb/kill him then. if hes gonna shoot town theres no reason to kill him :p
Click to expand...

that's kinda true, i guess it doesn't particularly matter if they kill him specifically but as long as he shoots me and they shoot another townie (which they can be reasonably certain they'll be able to do if they block mewt), the game is over anyway


----------



## kyeugh

i was just listing out the potential worlds here and realized that i'm kind of just assuming mafia win at parity here for some reason, but thinking about it i guess that's actually probably not the case since it wasn't in tvt?  so maybe vm actually can afford one more misfire, it'll just put us back in mylo and give mafia the ability to leave the fate of the game up to a rand if they must, so...  i guess whether he fires toNight comes down to whether he's sure enough about the alignment of his target or the information the kill would provide to make such a risk worth taking.  that's a bit less dire.  i think i still don't really advise shooting me since it gives the mafia a 50+% chance of winning the game during the following Day, which—while better than a 100% chance that Night—is still pretty unideal.


----------



## rari_teh

Bluwiikoon said:


> Mist1422 said:
> 
> 
> 
> I think keldeo and blu are w/w lol
> 
> I will explain why after “work”/once I’m on break
> 
> 
> 
> You can explain your reasonings, but you will still be wrong
> 
> More thoughts:
> -If I'm wolf, why would one of my first actions toDay be to vote Keldeo instead of someone actually town?
> -If I'm wolf, why has no-one ever defended me from peoples' suspicions
> -If I'm wolf why do I make such dumb posts and dumb plays LOL. Wolfchat would never allow my stupidity to reign free
> 
> Honestly I am feeling very attacked. Both town and mafia are kinda slammin me and I feel isolated :( At least if I was wolf I'd have wolfchat to talk to, but as it is I'm like, the only person advocating for myself. Feels bad
Click to expand...

another one: if blu’s wolf, why was he the first person to post an actually game-relevant post D1?

when i logged in after one entire irl-day and saw that there were ~4 new pages of posts i expected that the discussion would have actually gone significantly forward tbh
’tis only about 12 hours until EoD and the mafia is leading the discussion like a ringmaster leads a circus pony tbh


----------



## Trebek

rari_teh said:


> ’tis only about 12 hours until EoD and the mafia is leading the discussion like a ringmaster leads a circus pony tbh


yeah, the presence (or lack thereof) of people is lowkey stressing me out
what am i missing :(


----------



## rari_teh

Trebek said:


> rari_teh said:
> 
> 
> 
> ’tis only about 12 hours until EoD and the mafia is leading the discussion like a ringmaster leads a circus pony tbh
> 
> 
> 
> yeah, the presence (or lack thereof) of people is lowkey stressing me out
> what am i missing :(
Click to expand...

i am fairly sure that we have a pretty similar PoE, so i’m probably missing whatever you are missing as well tbh
though they only need one townvote on who they want to eliminate amidst the seemingly unavoidable pre-EoD confusion, so maybe they’re going quiet to wait for a more solid response from our fishing bros tbh


----------



## Trebek

rari_teh said:


> Trebek said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rari_teh said:
> 
> 
> 
> ’tis only about 12 hours until EoD and the mafia is leading the discussion like a ringmaster leads a circus pony tbh
> 
> 
> 
> yeah, the presence (or lack thereof) of people is lowkey stressing me out
> what am i missing :(
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> i am fairly sure that we have a pretty similar PoE, so i’m probably missing whatever you are missing as well tbh
> though they only need one townvote on who they want to eliminate amidst the seemingly unavoidable pre-EoD confusion, so maybe they’re going quiet to wait for a more solid response from our fishing bros tbh
Click to expand...

this is part of what’s stressing me out about my PoE :( i’m fairly convinced by vm’s documentation of his codeclaim to tofu, and i really want blu to be town, but if that happens then PoE leads me to believing in dark fishing bro’s, which also doesn’t seem right


----------



## rari_teh

Trebek said:


> i’m fairly convinced by vm’s documentation of his codeclaim to tofu


he didn’t, and can’t, prove his answer to the first question tbh
he might as well have claimed bodyguard to her


----------



## Trebek

rari_teh said:


> Trebek said:
> 
> 
> 
> i’m fairly convinced by vm’s documentation of his codeclaim to tofu
> 
> 
> 
> he didn’t, and can’t, prove his answer to the first question tbh
> he might as well have claimed bodyguard to her
Click to expand...

yeah, it could very well have been a BG or GA claim, but it’s got me thinking just enough to be paranoid about my PoE :/


----------



## rari_teh

my PoE right now is qva > keldeo > mist > koko > vm tbh
like, vm is def the least likely to be lying, but if he’s telling the truth then blu is mafia, and if blu is mafia then he deserves the win for perfectly acting like the purest of townies since D1 tbh


----------



## Trebek

rari_teh said:


> my PoE right now is qva > keldeo > mist > koko > vm tbh
> like, vm is def the least likely to be lying, but if he’s telling the truth then blu is mafia, and if blu is mafia then he deserves the win for perfectly acting like the purest of townies since D1 tbh


i agree with this, my only paranoia caveat is that if vig kills keep happening and vm gets confirm town, idk wether i am more likely to believe blu is mafia or bfree/m+7 are mafia and one of mist/koko is town


----------



## rari_teh

Trebek said:


> idk wether i am more likely to believe blu is mafia or bfree/m+7 are mafia and one of mist/koko is town


tbqh i’m only sure that bfree/mp7 are town because everytime someone said “what if” everybody said that mafia fishing bros don’t exist, but if i discarded that i’d def be more inclined to believe that bfree/mp7 are mafia rather than blu tbh
not for anything damning that they did, but because it’d take the best of hollywood to put up the act that blu would have been putting tbh


----------



## Trebek

rari_teh said:


> Trebek said:
> 
> 
> 
> idk wether i am more likely to believe blu is mafia or bfree/m+7 are mafia and one of mist/koko is town
> 
> 
> 
> tbqh i’m only sure that bfree/mp7 are town because everytime someone said “what if” everybody said that mafia fishing bros don’t exist, but if i discarded that i’d def be more inclined to believe that bfree/mp7 are mafia rather than blu tbh
> not for anything damning that they did, but because it’d take the best of hollywood to put up the act that blu would have been putting tbh
Click to expand...

yeah, we’re basically mindmelding rn


it’s just frustrating bc i know most people are having a much easier time with their PoE by chucking me in there


----------



## Keldeo

I'm personally in knee deep in dark fishing brothers tinfoil rn for what that's worth to you. :V



rari_teh said:


> if blu’s wolf, why was he the first person to post an actually game-relevant post D1?


Do you actually think this makes him town... It is also, to your other points, really not that hard for mafia to go "haha I'm just a townie."

I am slowly casing him / town casing myself, will post at some point before sleep tonight.


----------



## Keldeo

Like Butterfree's turn on me here is pretty opportunistic and ignores the larger context around my claiming my soft. I can't help but think that she's been keeping me at null because "zomg he's a good wolf" in order to keep that option open.

Vibes in a similar direction on koko. Man.


----------



## Keldeo

Actually think _possibly_ Butterfree (and by extension MP7) and definitely VM are both spewed town from Blu's posting - specifically Blu shifting blame/reasoning onto Butterfree's Herbe vote, and Blu basically rolefishing VM after his Jennyanydots claim.


----------



## Keldeo

I 100% think VM should holster tonight if there is a tonight, btw, not worth losing the game on a wrong shot.


----------



## Novae

I don't get why people are actually considering VM as scum role-wise

I don't think a mafia vig makes any sense in 10v4


----------



## Butterfree

Keldeo said:


> Like Butterfree's turn on me here is pretty opportunistic and ignores the larger context around my claiming my soft. I can't help but think that she's been keeping me at null because "zomg he's a good wolf" in order to keep that option open.
> 
> Vibes in a similar direction on koko. Man.


What larger context around the softclaim am I missing exactly? Because you literally just cited the fact you once called it "seer cover", a common term for the thing.


----------



## Keldeo

*Bluwiikoon is mafia.*

In short, Blu has not placed a vote or made a read this game where I'm convinced he actually believes the person he's talking about is mafia. He's placed votes and stated suspicions, sure, but crucially none of them are strong and founded in his own belief. 

The town are trying to find mafia! The town develop beliefs that people are mafia, strong beliefs that sometimes are wrong. The mafia aren't trying to find mafia, because they already know who they are. The mafia know that if they don't actually call townies mafia, they won't be visibly wrong. They are protected by their TMI.

Scroll through his ISO and find me somewhere he actually suspects someone. Here are some posts where he expresses suspicion on people, which is usually immediately followed by a hedge:



Spoiler






Bluwiikoon said:


> -I have some suspicions about Seshas for some reason  Could just be unfounded based on my earlier WIFOM tinhatting however! As far as I can recall, they didn't actually respond to my tinhatting (not that WMG deserves much of a response)





Bluwiikoon said:


> I guess someone inactive, or someone I have  feelings about. So far those people would be Seshas (because of me tunnelling/tinhatting too hard after Jokes) or rari_teh (due to reasons Trebek mentioned in #715, and the big increase of their posting activity right as Trebek was getting pushed)





Bluwiikoon said:


> The Great Trebek Push made me  about rari, purely based on the fact that I hadn't noticed much activity from them and then the Push resulted in a lot of activity from them in a short space of time. Other than that, not sure to make of RNP and Stryke :-( RNP is allegedly Always Like That, but it seems like they're a bit unhappy about any kind of voting on D1, particularly against Stryke. Meanwhile, Stryke's reaction to their wagon is equivalent to a (shrug)





Bluwiikoon said:


> IndigoEmmy still feels a bit different to me, but she still does the same thing of following along with everyone else's wagons and not inputting too much else otherwise, which is similar to her in tvt (where she was town).





Bluwiikoon said:


> VM comes out of the kyeugh speculation looking a bit worse if we all accept kyeugh as town, since it could all be a push to discredit someone we perceive as town over uhhh current lynch targets. But, trying to use mech stuff as speculation could also be a very towny move? It just all, hmm, feels very aggressive. ILS also continues to feel  to me, for posting sparsely yet feeling inclined to comment on the rari shade and kyeugh shade. I also don't think ILS's flavor spec could necessarily be ultra towny if there's no Strange Circumstances to hide





Bluwiikoon said:


> Keldeo - Sorry to suspect you bro but I'd probably mark you as red
> kokorico - Idk sorry
> Trebek - We had some good feelings about them during the Trebekkening! Which, of course, was spearheaded by Keldeo...
> M Plus 7 - Idk tbh
> Tofu - VM was like  at her role, and yet didn't move to lynch her. I'd assume 3p unless they're in it together
> Bluwiikoon - I'm town, of course.
> Vipera Magnifica - Just vibes tbh, and if we accept kyeugh as innocent then the statistics REALLY looks bad
> Mist1422 - Idk






He's . He says people "look a bit worse". He marks people as red. He justifies (or avoids) suspicion based on other people's reads. Are you convinced at all that he himself thinks these people are mafia?

And some super non-specific shade casting posts:


Spoiler






Bluwiikoon said:


> So, would toDay's agenda be analysing people who were reluctant to vote Ultracool throughout the thread? :o





Bluwiikoon said:


> Is it worth wagoning for inactive folks today, and/or trying to draw some of the more lurky/inactive folks out of the woodwork? I'm also interested if anybody has more hypocop flips ^^





Bluwiikoon said:


> The reason I mention inactives is that it feels like we're at a little bit of a standstill at the moment without more discussion and input from lots of different people. Being lurky has proven to be an effective strategy for scum in the past






As a result, he's been able to avoid accountability this entire game - for both his lack of suspicions and for the votes, on town, that he has placed.



Bluwiikoon said:


> I think after reading everyone's points I have stronger feelings about lynching *myuma* than Stryke, so I'll just park a vote there for now unless anything else comes to light.  Sorry myuma, it's gotta be someone ;o;


His vote on town myuma just because he prefers them to town Stryke, based on other people's points.



Bluwiikoon said:


> If it helps, my vote on Tofu yesterDay was to add pressure because we were trying to see how they'd react to a bit of pushing


His vote on Tofu justified in hindsight as pressure. Note that he never made a read on this reaction.



Bluwiikoon said:


> I think *Herbe* for now. In day one they kept mentioning how towny they are and uhhhh honestly? I feel like a rolecop is kind of a huge risk for any town power roles, especially considering y'all are saying rolecop is usually a mafia role >:o Unless we get a specific cat claim from Herbe that people knowledgeable in The Lore can explain as being rolecop AND town, I'm ok putting my vote there. Sorry tangy bro ;o;


His vote on Herbe (over Mr. Ultracool, despite saying he was fine with the Ultracool train earlier.) Note how he defers blame to Butterfree, and how he never actually expresses that he thinks Herbe is mafia. Rolecop is a risk. Other people are saying it's usually mafia.



Bluwiikoon said:


> And if I revisit my Spicy Roster List, marking RNP as red allows someone else whom is Unconfirmed to be green (like a greenlist of Me, VM and Tofu, and possibly Trebek or koko). I think I like that a bit more, especially since either VM or Tofu are confirmed vig now? It also doesn't do us any favours for the cop to get roleblocked out of some weird memey grudge.


His vote on RNP. Again, this is so position-y. Marking RNP as mafia allows someone else in the POE to be town: of course. Does he actually believe RNP is mafia and roleblocking the cop out of agenda, or does RNP have a weird memey grudge? 

I townread him for tone too, early. I fell into that trap. Him reminding people to stay hydrated and posting cute pictures is so awesome, and I really truly wish there were more _people_ like him who played mafia.

But here, he just isn't motivated to solve the game. He is putting on the act of being a clueless townie, and using people townreading him for that act in order to coast on his lack of actual material stances, and his lack of any action that has led to a mafia death.

--

*I am town.*

If you're town and voting me right now, it's going to lose the game. I don't blame you - I've played pretty poorly, I've wagoned townies and badly setup speculated and been less than engaged this crucial phase.

But ask anyone who's towned against me to describe me as the mafia alignment, and you might get under-the-radar, or reasonable. The wolf in your town core, the one whose backstab you don't see coming. 

This game I've been flashy, bold, noticeable. I've taken stances. I've posted my thoughts transparently. Visibly reaction testing Trebek and trying to get wagons formed on day 1, visibly starting the Herbe wagon on day 2, visibly counterclaiming Blu today - all things I didn't need to do as mafia, where my priority is to stay under the radar and survive. All things that I did here, as town, to create a cohesive, solving town environment.

I seriously need to sleep so I'm not going to self-ISO because I've posted like 300 times, which should probably be a towntell in itself, but


Keldeo said:


> Maybe that means that I should vote *Mr. Ultracool* so that the wagons can be him and someone else?!


This is a post I made day 1 that I straight-up did not need to make about Mr. Ultracool if I was his partner.

And like, I said that I had a flavor soft the moment that I counterclaimed. I don't understand at all Butterfree / mewtini / kokorico's argument that I made it up somehow.

-- 

Mechanically the votes should be between me and the person who is confirmed mafia to me but I guess that isn't happening. 

I don't have a team or unified theory of everything, sorry. I think VM and mewtini are town, and Butterfree and MP might be town but I'm smitten with the dark fishing bros theory. I'm currently at yeet Blu figure the rest out tomorrow tbh.

And like I said... I really don't fault you if you vote me out here, but I also really don't want this game to end this way. Please read what I've written and not continue to tunnel me? 

Thanks for bearing with me. I'll try to be back before the deadline.


----------



## Keldeo

Butterfree said:


> Keldeo said:
> 
> 
> 
> Like Butterfree's turn on me here is pretty opportunistic and ignores the larger context around my claiming my soft. I can't help but think that she's been keeping me at null because "zomg he's a good wolf" in order to keep that option open.
> 
> Vibes in a similar direction on koko. Man.
> 
> 
> 
> What larger context around the softclaim am I missing exactly? Because you literally just cited the fact you once called it "seer cover", a common term for the thing.
Click to expand...

The context that I said that I softed the moment I claimed. If I were not Cassandra, how would I have known that I had even posted a soft? I never ever call it seer cover, seer isn't a known or used term here.


----------



## Keldeo

Mist1422 said:


> I don't get why people are actually considering VM as scum role-wise
> 
> I don't think a mafia vig makes any sense in 10v4


I don't think anyone's arguing that he's a mafia vig. aiui the argument that he's mafia stems from the idea that Tofu was the real town vig and VM is just claiming her role since he's the only one who knew it.

I think Blu role fishing him pretty much makes him town, though.


----------



## Keldeo

Compare Blu's questions about the jailer re: RNP to Blu's question about what Jennyanydots does re: VM.


----------



## Keldeo

Blu is a hard type of mafia to catch because he has great tone, which naturally serves to dispel smaller suspicions, and he hasn't done anything overtly scummy (besides have a poor voting record, but so do many town, here.) 

But that latter part is the key. He's not done anything overtly scummy that you can point to, he has no awful-looking extreme push on a town like I do, _because_ he hasn't made any pushes of his own. It's a "negative space" read.


----------



## Keldeo

Wooo I'm on a roll.

These are his posts referring to the him/me situation today:


Bluwiikoon said:


> -If I'm wolf, why would one of my first actions toDay be to vote Keldeo instead of someone actually town?
> -If I'm wolf, why has no-one ever defended me from peoples' suspicions
> -If I'm wolf why do I make such dumb posts and dumb plays LOL. Wolfchat would never allow my stupidity to reign free





Bluwiikoon said:


> Unless mafia have a secret rolecop I'm not sure how or why Keldeo would know I'm Cassandra and plan that far in advance ?__?


Like, I just counterclaimed him. If he's town, my claim is impossible, he should know I'm mafia. If he's town, he now has a suspect where he doesn't need to have any concerns or interpretations to waffle about, finally! Why is that not showing in his posts?


----------



## Novae

that was him defending against the w/w arguments iirc


----------



## Keldeo

Mist1422 said:


> that was him defending against the w/w arguments iirc


That's my point, why is he acting as though he is a wolf in a world where I'm a wolf and arguing against that, instead of acting as though he's a villager in a world where I'm a wolf and pouncing on me?


----------



## Novae

from what I saw he was acting like it was a foregone conclusion you were wolf and didn't want to tie himself in


----------



## Keldeo

Mafia Keldeo shuts up and rolls over because he wants to avoid spew, town Keldeo stays up til 6 writing a case when the game is probably lost anyway because he’s a clown. Woweek 

Sketched out a little by Mist taking issue with what amounts to a half asleep footnote on my Blu case and nothing else

Swinging back around to MP7’s absence as just plain scummy for her I know she likes a good LYLO. Blu deferringto Butterfree in this world would just be a Blu thing especially as he didn’t follow up by encouraging suspicion onto Bfree because of Herbe flipping town (in fact discouraged it because of Butterfree’s supposed confirmed status.) Look at the dark side, they have fishing brothers


----------



## Keldeo

Postgame cred: Mist, Bfree, MP7, [Trebek or koko], [rari or skylar]


----------



## Keldeo

Keldeo said:


> Postgame cred: Mist, Bfree, MP7, [Trebek or koko], [rari or skylar]


Gdi lol that’s one too many partners 

I need sleep, bye


----------



## kyeugh

Trebek said:


> rari_teh said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Trebek said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rari_teh said:
> 
> 
> 
> ’tis only about 12 hours until EoD and the mafia is leading the discussion like a ringmaster leads a circus pony tbh
> 
> 
> 
> yeah, the presence (or lack thereof) of people is lowkey stressing me out
> what am i missing :(
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> i am fairly sure that we have a pretty similar PoE, so i’m probably missing whatever you are missing as well tbh
> though they only need one townvote on who they want to eliminate amidst the seemingly unavoidable pre-EoD confusion, so maybe they’re going quiet to wait for a more solid response from our fishing bros tbh
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> this is part of what’s stressing me out about my PoE :( i’m fairly convinced by vm’s documentation of his codeclaim to tofu, and i really want blu to be town, but if that happens then PoE leads me to believing in dark fishing bro’s, which also doesn’t seem right
Click to expand...

 i feel like this should be pinging everyone that isn’t you


Keldeo said:


> Mafia Keldeo shuts up and rolls over because he wants to avoid spew, town Keldeo stays up til 6 writing a case when the game is probably lost anyway because he’s a clown. Woweek


 huge mood


----------



## Bluwiikoon

?__?

I hope you know that none of that dignifies a response because Keldeo essentially outed himself as wolf to me with his false counterclaim

I am far too tired for this!


----------



## kyeugh

i’m not sure i’m actually fully convinced by keldeo’s posting but he makes some points and is true that it’s going to be silly if he gets lynched and flips town and we lose because we never at any point in the game put any pressure on blu

so i am going to put a vote on *bluwiikoon *to see what he has to say although the odds i move off this vote are decent tbh


----------



## Bluwiikoon

Tbh just stab me so I have one less thing to cope with at the moment  I don't wanna be too #tmi on main but I am not dealing very well with things in general and I don't need a game of all things to make me cry

*Bluwiikoon*


----------



## Keldeo

Bluwiikoon said:


> Tbh just stab me so I have one less thing to cope with at the moment  I don't wanna be too #tmi on main but I am not dealing very well with things in general and I don't need a game of all things to make me cry
> 
> *Bluwiikoon*


Oh no, I’m really sorry to hear that :c 

I hope whatever you’re dealing with gets better for you soon!! Mafia is just a game, not more important than life or anything else.


----------



## Novae

Keldeo said:


> Postgame cred: Mist, Bfree, MP7, [Trebek or koko], [rari or skylar]


uhhh...blu?


----------



## Vipera Magnifica

Hmmmmmm

At this point, we really should decide between Keldeo/blu, because there is no doubt at least one of them is mafia.

I'm going to keep my vote on Keldeo for the time being but I'm interested to see how these wagons evolve.


----------



## kyeugh

Mist1422 said:


> Keldeo said:
> 
> 
> 
> Postgame cred: Mist, Bfree, MP7, [Trebek or koko], [rari or skylar]
> 
> 
> 
> uhhh...blu?
Click to expand...




Keldeo said:


> Gdi lol that’s one too many partners


?


----------



## mewtini

Trebek said:


> rari_teh said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Trebek said:
> 
> 
> 
> i’m fairly convinced by vm’s documentation of his codeclaim to tofu
> 
> 
> 
> he didn’t, and can’t, prove his answer to the first question tbh
> he might as well have claimed bodyguard to her
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> yeah, it could very well have been a BG or GA claim, but it’s got me thinking just enough to be paranoid about my PoE :/
Click to expand...

straight up if bfree/mp7 are dark fishing brothers i'm just going to lose the game on it and call it a day. i'm thinking about the possibility that tofu claimed vig to VM and he claimed bodyguard/GA instead to her before i get there tbqh, i'm just accepting that i won't catch bfree if she is actually mafia because i'm just not going to make it to that place i think

i guess i'll respond to the rest of this but i'm like. lol.
*this is the third wagon rising that we all talked about*


----------



## mewtini

kyeugh said:


> i feel like this should be pinging everyone that isn’t you


lol why tbh


Keldeo said:


> But that latter part is the key. He's not done anything overtly scummy that you can point to, he has no awful-looking extreme push on a town like I do, _because_ he hasn't made any pushes of his own. It's a "negative space" read.


tbh tho this is how i feel about you? besides the herbe/ultracool thing you've sort of been dormant

keldeo i read your case, i'm not ignoring it, but it didn't move the needle for me. i think blu sounds exactly like devastated/dejected townie right now, and that he sounded exactly like nervous/unfamiliar town for the rest of the game. your 'shade-casting' quotes _aren't casting any shade_, and even though i kept him near the bottom of my townreads as well because of the hedging, i'm still siding with him as town and you/kyeugh as w/w wagons attempting to force a villager in the middle. i won't be moving my vote unless [redacted] happens tbhtbh.


----------



## mewtini

if i slightly back up in the tunnel i _guess_ i could switch blu for koko or something but. Gut Feel Says: Tunnel


----------



## mewtini

the keldeo/blu dichotomy is still being artificially forced and i'm still going to side-eye everyone who insists on them being 'diametrically opposed' when blu claimed in an authentic way and keldeo, having had hours upon hours to figure out his re-entrance, fakecounterclaimed in what i still think was an attempt to get another wagon rising


----------



## mewtini

skylar (3): mewt, rari, trebek
keldeo (2): vm, koko
blu (3): keldeo, skylar, blu


----------



## mewtini

@Bluwiikoon pls take care of yourself/don't push yourself, but if you're town and able, _please_ move your vote. as it is mafia could still force a majority vote on you right before EoD and instantly win. i hope you are doing okay tbh


----------



## rari_teh

mewtini said:


> @Bluwiikoon pls take care of yourself/don't push yourself, but if you're town and able, _please_ move your vote. as it is mafia could still force a majority vote on you right before EoD and instantly win. i hope you are doing okay tbh


still not caught up, but i must second this. please unvote. we're at 6v/5w. one parked vote from a townie is enough to warrant a mafia win.


----------



## Trebek

kyeugh said:


> Trebek said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rari_teh said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Trebek said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rari_teh said:
> 
> 
> 
> ’tis only about 12 hours until EoD and the mafia is leading the discussion like a ringmaster leads a circus pony tbh
> 
> 
> 
> yeah, the presence (or lack thereof) of people is lowkey stressing me out
> what am i missing :(
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> i am fairly sure that we have a pretty similar PoE, so i’m probably missing whatever you are missing as well tbh
> though they only need one townvote on who they want to eliminate amidst the seemingly unavoidable pre-EoD confusion, so maybe they’re going quiet to wait for a more solid response from our fishing bros tbh
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> this is part of what’s stressing me out about my PoE :( i’m fairly convinced by vm’s documentation of his codeclaim to tofu, and i really want blu to be town, but if that happens then PoE leads me to believing in dark fishing bro’s, which also doesn’t seem right
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> i feel like this should be pinging everyone that isn’t you
Click to expand...

what exactly do you mean by this? i was just laying out my thought process about my PoE :p


----------



## kyeugh

mewtini said:


> lol why tbh


because it’s trebek saying “if i’m wrong about anything here then the only possibility is dark fishing brothers” except the only person with a mechanical clear on trebek is himself, so actually the more immediate possibility is that he’s scum


----------



## kyeugh

i think it makes sense for you to have that thought but if anyone else is looking at it and agreeing then that should immediately implicate you tbh


----------



## Trebek

kyeugh said:


> mewtini said:
> 
> 
> 
> lol why tbh
> 
> 
> 
> because it’s trebek saying “if i’m wrong about anything here then the only possibility is dark fishing brothers” except the only person with a mechanical clear on trebek is himself, so actually the more immediate possibility is that he’s scum
Click to expand...

well, i sorta assumed that my PoE was made with the caveat that i know my role ??? and that other people would acknowledge that bc the post was made by me?

i don’t like this vibe tbh


----------



## kyeugh

Trebek said:


> kyeugh said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> mewtini said:
> 
> 
> 
> lol why tbh
> 
> 
> 
> because it’s trebek saying “if i’m wrong about anything here then the only possibility is dark fishing brothers” except the only person with a mechanical clear on trebek is himself, so actually the more immediate possibility is that he’s scum
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> well, i sorta assumed that my PoE was made with the caveat that i know my role ??? and that other people would acknowledge that bc the post was made by me?
> 
> i don’t like this vibe tbh
Click to expand...

i mean yes? at what point did i dispute that

i’m just pointing out that no one else knows your role so the implications for literally anyone else reading that post are actually bad for you if they share your instantly


----------



## kyeugh

kyeugh said:


> instantly


* uncertainty


----------



## Novae

keldeo/blu/Trebek/koko/rari/qva PoE

I think qva is most likely to be scum here because of PR count? let’s rethink


----------



## Trebek

kyeugh said:


> Trebek said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> kyeugh said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> mewtini said:
> 
> 
> 
> lol why tbh
> 
> 
> 
> because it’s trebek saying “if i’m wrong about anything here then the only possibility is dark fishing brothers” except the only person with a mechanical clear on trebek is himself, so actually the more immediate possibility is that he’s scum
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> well, i sorta assumed that my PoE was made with the caveat that i know my role ??? and that other people would acknowledge that bc the post was made by me?
> 
> i don’t like this vibe tbh
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> i mean yes? at what point did i dispute that
> 
> i’m just pointing out that no one else knows your role so the implications for literally anyone else reading that post are actually bad for you if they share your instantly
Click to expand...

i just don’t exactly get how “trebek makes a PoE that doesn’t include himself bc he knows his role” is scummy behavior, because that’s how _everyone_ makes their PoE

and like i guess i understand what you mean (?)but it still feels a bit like a reach


----------



## rari_teh

Mist1422 said:


> Keldeo said:
> 
> 
> 
> Postgame cred: Mist, Bfree, MP7, [Trebek or koko], [rari or skylar]
> 
> 
> 
> uhhh...blu?
Click to expand...

mate
that’s a mafiaslip if i’ve ever seen a mafiaslip


----------



## kyeugh

Trebek said:


> kyeugh said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Trebek said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> kyeugh said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> mewtini said:
> 
> 
> 
> lol why tbh
> 
> 
> 
> because it’s trebek saying “if i’m wrong about anything here then the only possibility is dark fishing brothers” except the only person with a mechanical clear on trebek is himself, so actually the more immediate possibility is that he’s scum
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> well, i sorta assumed that my PoE was made with the caveat that i know my role ??? and that other people would acknowledge that bc the post was made by me?
> 
> i don’t like this vibe tbh
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> i mean yes? at what point did i dispute that
> 
> i’m just pointing out that no one else knows your role so the implications for literally anyone else reading that post are actually bad for you if they share your instantly
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> i just don’t exactly get how “trebek makes a PoE that doesn’t include himself bc he knows his role” is scummy behavior, because that’s how _everyone_ makes their PoE
> 
> and like i guess i understand what you mean (?)but it still feels a bit like a reach
Click to expand...

i just said twice that i understand why you have that PoE and don’t think it’s scummy for you to have it

i’m saying that no one else has the clear on yourself that you do so if anyone else shares your position of uncertainty on the wagons, you are the most likely scum, not the fishing brothers. it’s not a reach it’s just how the logic should work


----------



## mewtini

i am pretty sure trebek is referring to you using the word 'ping' tbh



rari_teh said:


> mate
> that’s a mafiaslip if i’ve ever seen a mafiaslip





mewtini said:


> blu is locktown


----------



## Novae

Mist1422 said:


> Moved off of ultracool at the 8v2, voted herbe at EoD: {VM, Keldeo, kyuegh}
> Stayed on ultracool between 8v2 and EoD: {tofu, trebek, rari, *Herbe, mewtini*}
> Moved onto the ultracool wagon between 8v2 and EoD: {*Mist*, MP7, koko}
> off-wagon through EoD: {RNP, *Emmy*}
> Weren't voting Ultracool at any point, ended on herbe: {*ILS, Butterfree, Ultra, *Blu}
> 
> cutting out the clears we end up with:
> {VM, Keldeo, kyuegh}
> {tofu, trebek, rari}
> {MP7, koko}
> {RNP}
> {Blu}
> in order
> 
> Probably 2-3 scum in the first one, one in the second, none in the third, and one in {RNP/Blu}
> 
> So if I had to give a solve it'd be VM/Keldeo/kyuegh/Blu/tofu, with tofu swappable with trebek/rari


This is invisible for some reason but


----------



## Trebek

kyeugh said:


> Trebek said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> kyeugh said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Trebek said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> kyeugh said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> mewtini said:
> 
> 
> 
> lol why tbh
> 
> 
> 
> because it’s trebek saying “if i’m wrong about anything here then the only possibility is dark fishing brothers” except the only person with a mechanical clear on trebek is himself, so actually the more immediate possibility is that he’s scum
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> well, i sorta assumed that my PoE was made with the caveat that i know my role ??? and that other people would acknowledge that bc the post was made by me?
> 
> i don’t like this vibe tbh
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> i mean yes? at what point did i dispute that
> 
> i’m just pointing out that no one else knows your role so the implications for literally anyone else reading that post are actually bad for you if they share your instantly
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> i just don’t exactly get how “trebek makes a PoE that doesn’t include himself bc he knows his role” is scummy behavior, because that’s how _everyone_ makes their PoE
> 
> and like i guess i understand what you mean (?)but it still feels a bit like a reach
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> i just said twice that i understand why you have that PoE and don’t think it’s scummy for you to have it
> 
> i’m saying that no one else has the clear on yourself that you do so if anyone else shares your position of uncertainty on the wagons, you are the most likely scum, not the fishing brothers. it’s not a reach it’s just how the logic should work
Click to expand...

do you mean if anyone else shares my uncertainty, or posts about my uncertainty?


----------



## kyeugh

kyeugh/keldeo v/v - possible
kyeugh/bluwiikoon v/v - possible
keldeo/bluwiikoon v/v - impossible
i can’t really get past the fact that no one seems to care about this even though we’re in mylo


----------



## Novae

Moved onto the ultracool wagon between 8v2 and EoD: {Mist, MP7, koko}
off-wagon through EoD: {RNP, Emmy}
Weren't voting Ultracool at any point, ended on herbe: {ILS, Butterfree, Ultra, Blu}

cutting out the clears we end up with:
{VM, Keldeo, kyuegh}
{tofu, trebek, rari}
{MP7, koko}
{RNP}
{Blu}


----------



## mewtini

kyeugh said:


> kyeugh/keldeo v/v - possible
> kyeugh/bluwiikoon v/v - possible
> keldeo/bluwiikoon v/v - impossible
> i can’t really get past the fact that no one seems to care about this even though we’re in mylo


why are you voting on blu rn over keldeo tbh?


----------



## Novae

kyeugh said:


> kyeugh/keldeo v/v - possible
> kyeugh/bluwiikoon v/v - possible
> keldeo/bluwiikoon v/v - impossible
> i can’t really get past the fact that no one seems to care about this even though we’re in mylo


Tofu, VM, Butterfree, MP7, Herbe, ILS, mewtini, Emmy, and RNP were/are all PRs

Rari’s claim should be confirmed fake to you

and I think you should care about this


----------



## kyeugh

Trebek said:


> kyeugh said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Trebek said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> kyeugh said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Trebek said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> kyeugh said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> mewtini said:
> 
> 
> 
> lol why tbh
> 
> 
> 
> because it’s trebek saying “if i’m wrong about anything here then the only possibility is dark fishing brothers” except the only person with a mechanical clear on trebek is himself, so actually the more immediate possibility is that he’s scum
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> well, i sorta assumed that my PoE was made with the caveat that i know my role ??? and that other people would acknowledge that bc the post was made by me?
> 
> i don’t like this vibe tbh
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> i mean yes? at what point did i dispute that
> 
> i’m just pointing out that no one else knows your role so the implications for literally anyone else reading that post are actually bad for you if they share your instantly
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> i just don’t exactly get how “trebek makes a PoE that doesn’t include himself bc he knows his role” is scummy behavior, because that’s how _everyone_ makes their PoE
> 
> and like i guess i understand what you mean (?)but it still feels a bit like a reach
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> i just said twice that i understand why you have that PoE and don’t think it’s scummy for you to have it
> 
> i’m saying that no one else has the clear on yourself that you do so if anyone else shares your position of uncertainty on the wagons, you are the most likely scum, not the fishing brothers. it’s not a reach it’s just how the logic should work
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> do you mean if anyone else shares my uncertainty, or posts about my uncertainty?
Click to expand...

 your position is that we’re missing something here, but you aren’t sure what, because from your pov the _only_ alternative option is for the fishing brothers to be scum. what i’m saying is that if anyone else agrees you’re missing something (like rari was), they do not have that clear on you, so you come up as an option too, and a more likely one than the fishing brothers as butterfree has a green check. that’s all i’m saying.


----------



## mewtini

which claim? with rari that makes 10 town PRs, which is fine


----------



## kyeugh

Mist1422 said:


> kyeugh said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> kyeugh/keldeo v/v - possible
> kyeugh/bluwiikoon v/v - possible
> keldeo/bluwiikoon v/v - impossible
> i can’t really get past the fact that no one seems to care about this even though we’re in mylo
> 
> 
> 
> Tofu, VM, Butterfree, MP7, Herbe, ILS, mewtini, Emmy, and RNP were/are all PRs
> 
> Rari’s claim should be confirmed fake to you
> 
> and I think you should care about this
Click to expand...

except rari literally neighborized me?


----------



## mewtini

mewtini said:


> which claim? with rari that makes 10 town PRs, which is fine


ohhh nvm i'm a fool i understand the numbers part now


----------



## Novae

kyeugh said:


> Mist1422 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> kyeugh said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> kyeugh/keldeo v/v - possible
> kyeugh/bluwiikoon v/v - possible
> keldeo/bluwiikoon v/v - impossible
> i can’t really get past the fact that no one seems to care about this even though we’re in mylo
> 
> 
> 
> Tofu, VM, Butterfree, MP7, Herbe, ILS, mewtini, Emmy, and RNP were/are all PRs
> 
> Rari’s claim should be confirmed fake to you
> 
> and I think you should care about this
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> except rari literally neighborized me?
Click to expand...

yeah?

so you should know it’s a mafia PR


----------



## kyeugh

mewtini said:


> kyeugh said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> kyeugh/keldeo v/v - possible
> kyeugh/bluwiikoon v/v - possible
> keldeo/bluwiikoon v/v - impossible
> i can’t really get past the fact that no one seems to care about this even though we’re in mylo
> 
> 
> 
> why are you voting on blu rn over keldeo tbh?
Click to expand...

 it was mostly in the hopes of getting him to talk as i said, because he pretty much hasn’t had to defend himself all game and i’ll feel silly if he’s scum and wins because we never pushed him to. it seems that isn’t going to happen but i’m still curious what happens if we leave the pressure on for a little longer.


----------



## rari_teh

Keldeo said:


> This game I've been flashy, bold, noticeable. I've taken stances. I've posted my thoughts transparently. Visibly reaction testing Trebek and trying to get wagons formed on day 1, visibly starting the Herbe wagon on day 2, visibly counterclaiming Blu today - all things I didn't need to do as mafia, where my priority is to stay under the radar and survive. All things that I did here, as town, to create a cohesive, solving town environment.


at least one mafioso must try try to steer discussion, otherwise the mafia’s job can get really difficult tbh

also this entire paragraph is giving me the vibes of a politician who’s being sued up his ass for innumerous counts of corruption and is desperately trying to save face in a rally tbh


Keldeo said:


> I've posted like 300 times, which should probably be a towntell in itself


wasn’t it you who said a couple Days ago that activity is not synonym with alignment? because whoever said that was right then


Keldeo said:


> And like, I said that I had a flavor soft the moment that I counterclaimed. I don't understand at all Butterfree / mewtini / kokorico's argument that I made it up somehow.





Keldeo said:


> The context that I said that I softed the moment I claimed. If I were not Cassandra, how would I have known that I had even posted a soft? I never ever call it seer cover, seer isn't a known or used term here.


you had over one irl-day to merrily peruse all of your post history and cherry-pick any word from your 300+ posts and claim it was a breadcrumb. i can’t even fathom how mist fell for it. oh wait, i can, he’s probably your scumbuddy


Mist1422 said:


> keldeo/blu/Trebek/koko/rari/qva PoE
> 
> I think qva is most likely to be scum here because of PR count? let’s rethink


in what world are skylar and trebek mafia together?!


----------



## Trebek

also, idk why we are assuming bfree got greenchecked when emmy checked mewt and seshas

bfree only got rolecleared


----------



## kyeugh

Mist1422 said:


> kyeugh said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mist1422 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> kyeugh said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> kyeugh/keldeo v/v - possible
> kyeugh/bluwiikoon v/v - possible
> keldeo/bluwiikoon v/v - impossible
> i can’t really get past the fact that no one seems to care about this even though we’re in mylo
> 
> 
> 
> Tofu, VM, Butterfree, MP7, Herbe, ILS, mewtini, Emmy, and RNP were/are all PRs
> 
> Rari’s claim should be confirmed fake to you
> 
> and I think you should care about this
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> except rari literally neighborized me?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> yeah?
> 
> so you should know it’s a mafia PR
Click to expand...

i guess. i’m not really confident in the success of a rari wagon right now and there’s still definitely scum in keldeo/blu though.


----------



## Novae

kyeugh said:


> Mist1422 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> kyeugh said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mist1422 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> kyeugh said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> kyeugh/keldeo v/v - possible
> kyeugh/bluwiikoon v/v - possible
> keldeo/bluwiikoon v/v - impossible
> i can’t really get past the fact that no one seems to care about this even though we’re in mylo
> 
> 
> 
> Tofu, VM, Butterfree, MP7, Herbe, ILS, mewtini, Emmy, and RNP were/are all PRs
> 
> Rari’s claim should be confirmed fake to you
> 
> and I think you should care about this
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> except rari literally neighborized me?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> yeah?
> 
> so you should know it’s a mafia PR
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> i guess. i’m not really confident in the success of a rari wagon right now and there’s still definitely scum in keldeo/blu though.
Click to expand...

I suppose this passes the vibe check


----------



## mewtini

Trebek said:


> also, idk why we are assuming bfree got greenchecked when emmy checked mewt and seshas
> 
> bfree only got rolecleared


i think people just misremembered which copcheck it was
either way i don't think dark fishing bros theory should be the main talk of EoD insofar as voting


----------



## kyeugh

Trebek said:


> also, idk why we are assuming bfree got greenchecked when emmy checked mewt and seshas
> 
> bfree only got rolecleared


is that the case? you might be right about that, i forget. whether that’s true or not though, i still think it’s safer to assume you’re a wolf than both butterfree and mp7 tbh.


----------



## Trebek

yeah, for the record i never intended for that to be the topic of the day, i just dragged out my reaction to skylar’s response to my PoE a little longer than was necessary ;(


----------



## kyeugh

i get that this is coming from me but i still really want to know if anyone actually has a solid reason we’re not honing in on


kyeugh said:


> kyeugh/keldeo v/v - possible
> kyeugh/bluwiikoon v/v - possible
> keldeo/bluwiikoon v/v - impossible
> i can’t really get past the fact that no one seems to care about this even though we’re in mylo


i get that this is coming from me but i still really want to know if anyone actually has a solid reason we’re not honing in on this. regardless of your feelings on me, it’s still just feelings, and it seems weird to me that people are willing to stake the game on that if they don’t have to.


----------



## kyeugh

why did xenforo duplicate my draft


----------



## Novae

Okay so

let’s work with the assumptions that all our clears (mewt, butterfree, MP7, VM) are legit

we know at least one of the following is true:

Keldeo/Blu are mafia together
I am mafia (:woweek:)
Skylar/rari are mafia together
We know there are 3-X mafia in Trebek/koko, where X is the amount of those that are true


----------



## kyeugh

kyeugh said:


> regardless of your feelings on me, it’s still just feelings


----------



## kyeugh

Mist1422 said:


> we know at least one of the following is true:
> 
> Keldeo/Blu are mafia together
> I am mafia (:woweek:)
> Skylar/rari are mafia together


 sorry, huh? can you expand on this?


----------



## Novae

kyeugh said:


> Mist1422 said:
> 
> 
> 
> we know at least one of the following is true:
> 
> Keldeo/Blu are mafia together
> I am mafia (:woweek:)
> Skylar/rari are mafia together
> 
> 
> 
> 
> sorry, huh? can you expand on this?
Click to expand...

If all three are false we have 7 town which is too many


----------



## kyeugh

i see


----------



## mewtini

ez, it's possible for VM to be uncleared


----------



## mewtini

jk mostly i believe that you're a wolf.


----------



## Novae

mewtini said:


> jk mostly i believe that you're a wolf.


well that’s a woweek and a hope I can prove you wrong before it’s too late from me


----------



## Novae

When’s deadline and what’s votecount


----------



## kyeugh

that does seem like the best explanation tbh
i'm not a wolf with rari and keldeo/blu being v/v seems unlikely to me because that would mean there are literally zero votes on mafia right now


----------



## kyeugh

Mist1422 said:


> When’s deadline and what’s votecount


two hours and ten minutes (3:00PM EST)


mewtini said:


> skylar (3): mewt, rari, trebek
> keldeo (2): vm, koko
> blu (3): keldeo, skylar, blu


----------



## kyeugh

i am going to go back to *keldeo* for now
kind of curious if blu shows back up to move his vote at any point


----------



## Novae

Yeah I’m going to vote *Keldeo* since I don’t think there’s enough traction for Trebek/koko and I think even if Blu flips mafia, Keldeo still does


----------



## Novae

I think if blu is mafia and keldeo is villager, both the self-vote and him focusing on arguing against them being partners is incredibly strange play

So I don't think it happens


----------



## kyeugh

tbh the thing i'm kind of turning over in my head about keldeo's self-defense is that he's _right_ in the sense that his wolf game is not really this ostentatious or risky, and him sticking his neck out to make the pushes he has doesn't align with my existing understanding of his scum play.

but on the other hand he said like d1 that he's trying to change the way he plays to be more active anyway so like.  pretty much regardless of his alignment, he's concerting some kind of effort to play that way where he normally wouldn't.  if it's true that he normally plays this way as town, then he wouldn't have to try and play "more actively" because by his admission this already looks like his default town game, so if it's also true that he's attempting to push himself to play more actively than usual, doesn't that actually kind of suggest wolfiness more than not...?  this is definitely reachy but it's something i've been thinking about since reading his post so it seemed worth a mention.


----------



## Butterfree

Yeah, I was rolecopped, not greenchecked.

Anyway, I have finally finished my long-awaited kyeugh ISO, over the course of which the gamestate has obviously kind of moved on, but I was GOING to finish this damn it.

I think there's a lot in here that seems scummy in hindsight, _especially_ if Keldeo is also scum:

- She leapt strongly to Keldeo's defense over the Trebek vote on D1, and continued to defend him a lot for most of the game, or be very vague and waffly about possible suspicion on him. At one point she vaguely expressed suspicion of Keldeo but concluded that was a huge reach; at another point she said if Keldeo's scum somebody other than her is going to have to figure it out. After this she relented and said she'd have to look at Keldeo's ISO, but then never did. She expressed some suspicion of Keldeo again after Keldeo voted Herbe, but said she felt good about his Herbe vote (and promised to ISO him again but never did, instead ISOing kokorico). Only today, with Keldeo clearly about to come seriously under fire, did she vote Keldeo, and even then she's still been kind of resistant, challenging the idea mafia!Keldeo is any more likely than mafia!blu, specifically insisting there's no possible way she's mafia with Keldeo, and changing her vote to blu.
- She was weirdly back-and-forth on Ultracool. She expressly wanted to kill the Ultracool wagon in favor of Stryke/myuma, and was then invested in keeping those two (v/v) wagons competitive; then later she voted Ultracool under pressure but then kind of discouraged it again, saying she didn't mean to start a thing here; then later said she didn't understand the Ultracool wagon despite having voted it herself; then ended up voting Ultracool anyway when that's where the thread was going; then agreed with Keldeo that the lack of resistance to Ultracool meant he wasn't mafia and wanted to vote between ILS/RNP instead (both town). Said after Ultracool was revealed to be mafia that she would've switched to him, but obviously that doesn't mean much.
- She was possibly the person most insistent that if RNP flipped town, the vig should definitely shoot Herbe. I can't go after this _too_ hard, since I bought the idea too, but she was _really_ pushing for and emphasizing this across several posts - and of course, turned out they were both town.
- In general, she's spent a lot of effort campaigning for wagons that turned out to be on town - which could just be bad luck/failed reads as with all of us, buuuut she's _also_ spent very little effort _opposing_ town wagons, as far as I could see. The strongest defense she's mounted was for Keldeo; she's expressed townreads at various points, but at least in the notes I wrote down I didn't really note much of anything in the way of resistance to any serious wagon, as if she was pretty much good with anyone that was getting seriously pushed.
- I also found it weird that shortly after saying that IndigoEmmy flipping red would implicate Tofu, IndigoEmmy made her cop claim and this prompted kyeugh, who believed Emmy, to... vote Tofu. (She went on to explain her reasoning for the Tofu vote as being that if one of her narrowed-down suspect list were to flip town, that'd mean there's one scum in VM/Tofu/Keldeo/Herbe and she's most suspicious of Tofu... but then why did she vote Tofu _over_ someone on the actual suspect list?)
- Finally: today she made this bold move of offering to be vigged tonight if it helped town solve, which sounds like a very towny move - only of course then she realizes that if she's town then this would mean town loses, so this shouldn't happen. Only kyeugh herself had _already_ figured out near the beginning of today that vigs shouldn't risk shooting town tonight. So by all appearances she knew from the start she wouldn't actually have to follow through on this, which makes it seem like kind of an opportunistic move to suggest it.

All that said, I don't think I see any reason not to resolve blu/Keldeo first, and I still think it's fairly obviously *Keldeo*.


----------



## JackPK

Reminder: The day phase will end in *85 minutes*.

*Active votes*
Vipera Magnifica votes Keldeo (#3959)
Trebek votes kyeugh (#4044)
mewtini votes kyeugh (#4098)
rari_teh votes kyeugh (#4112)
Keldeo votes Bluwiikoon (#4129)
kokorico votes Keldeo (#4258)
Bluwiikoon votes Bluwiikoon (#4310)
kyeugh votes Keldeo (#4365)
Mist1422 votes Keldeo (#4366)
Butterfree votes Keldeo (#4369)



Spoiler: Full vote history



Active votes bolded.

Bluwiikoon votes Keldeo (#3757)
Trebek votes Keldeo (#3874)
mewtini votes Keldeo (#3876)
rari_teh votes Keldeo (#3887)
kyeugh votes Keldeo (#3920)
mewtini votes kyeugh (#3926)
kokorico votes kyeugh (#3955)
*Vipera Magnifica votes Keldeo (#3959)*
mewtini votes Keldeo (#3961)
*Trebek votes kyeugh (#4044)
mewtini votes kyeugh (#4098)
rari_teh votes kyeugh (#4112)
Keldeo votes Bluwiikoon (#4129)
kokorico votes Keldeo (#4258)*
kyeugh votes Bluwiikoon (#4309)
*Bluwiikoon votes Bluwiikoon (#4310)
kyeugh votes Keldeo (#4365)
Mist1422 votes Keldeo (#4366)
Butterfree votes Keldeo (#4369)*


----------



## kyeugh

Butterfree said:


> Only today, with Keldeo clearly about to come seriously under fire, did she vote Keldeo, and even then she's still been kind of resistant, challenging the idea mafia!Keldeo is any more likely than mafia!blu, specifically insisting there's no possible way she's mafia with Keldeo, and changing her vote to blu.


 i can kind of see where you're coming from with a lot of this post, but i really don't get this.  in a vacuum i guess i can see what you're saying, but pretty much _no one_ has wanted to press on keldeo this entire game, and even now, when we can be virtually certain that one of keldeo/blu are scum, he'd only arrived at a majority a few hours ago.  i've been trying to get people to acknowledge this all day, and have been sitting on this vote here for _ages_ and very actively campaigning for other people to do the same, which is not exactly reluctantly moving onto him because he's under fire.  i get that there's an element of self-preservation at play there, but i don't think it's really fair to say that i've been dragging my feet on the keldeo thing and trying to hedge on the whole blu when i've been pretty transparent about my thinking during all this and it's been an uphill battle until a few hours ago anyway.

also, i'm still open to being shot tonight.  there was just a brief moment of panic when i thought it would actually immediately end the game if i was, so i was being very vocal about the fact that yeah please don't shoot me if you don't want to lose, but i've since revised my opinion because i can see that's not actually the case.


----------



## kyeugh

i honestly kind of selfishly _want_ to be shot because i really don't want to have to make this laborious argument for another three irl days when i can just die and everyone can see in an instant that they've been misled by wolves this entire time, but i get that doing so would put the mafia in a position to force the vote to a rand if they wanted to, so i'm not going to really push it.


----------



## Butterfree

kyeugh said:


> also, i'm still open to being shot tonight. there was just a brief moment of panic when i thought it would actually immediately end the game if i was, so i was being very vocal about the fact that yeah please don't shoot me if you don't want to lose, but i've since revised my opinion because i can see that's not actually the case.


Wait, did I miss something? I thought this was still true? We're at 5/11 mafia, if we lynch mafia it'll be 4/10, and then if mafia and vig both shoot town it'll be 4/8? Right?


----------



## Bluwiikoon

mewtini said:


> @Bluwiikoon pls take care of yourself/don't push yourself, but if you're town and able, _please_ move your vote. as it is mafia could still force a majority vote on you right before EoD and instantly win. i hope you are doing okay tbh


Aaaa you're right, I'm really sorry. >< I'm having a bit of a Time but that's still no reason to sabotage the game for town

*Keldeo*


----------



## kyeugh

Butterfree said:


> kyeugh said:
> 
> 
> 
> also, i'm still open to being shot tonight. there was just a brief moment of panic when i thought it would actually immediately end the game if i was, so i was being very vocal about the fact that yeah please don't shoot me if you don't want to lose, but i've since revised my opinion because i can see that's not actually the case.
> 
> 
> 
> Wait, did I miss something? I thought this was still true? We're at 5/11 mafia, if we lynch mafia it'll be 4/10, and then if mafia and vig both shoot town it'll be 4/8? Right?
Click to expand...

only if they win at parity and not majority, which i don’t think it’s the case since it wasn’t for tvt, unless i’m mistaken.


----------



## mewtini

Bluwiikoon said:


> Aaaa you're right, I'm really sorry. >< I'm having a bit of a Time but that's still no reason to sabotage the game for town
> 
> *Keldeo*


ty!! and i really hope you're alright man

keldeo (6): vm, koko, skylar, mist, bfree, blu
skylar (3): mewt, rari, trebek
blu (1): keldeo

i think


----------



## kyeugh

are we allowed to ask @JackPK whether it’s parity or majority tbh.


----------



## Butterfree

Oh, hmm. Are we sure? I don't know if that's something Jack would GM the way I did, especially since it was majority in TVT mainly because _technically_ it was "all innocents are dead" and I just allowed the rest to be skipped when mafia victory was actually _guaranteed_.


----------



## JackPK

kyeugh said:


> are we allowed to ask @JackPK whether it’s parity or majority tbh.


It's whatever the scum have in their wincon in their role PMs.


----------



## kyeugh

JackPK said:


> kyeugh said:
> 
> 
> 
> are we allowed to ask @JackPK whether it’s parity or majority tbh.
> 
> 
> 
> It's whatever the scum have in their wincon in their role PMs.
Click to expand...

any scum have an insight tbh?


----------



## Trebek

any scum wanna come forward and tell us :p


----------



## Butterfree

Oh no.

I'm going to say that means we should not risk it.


----------



## kyeugh

agreed tbh! unending pain


----------



## rari_teh

kyeugh said:


> JackPK said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> kyeugh said:
> 
> 
> 
> are we allowed to ask @JackPK whether it’s parity or majority tbh.
> 
> 
> 
> It's whatever the scum have in their wincon in their role PMs.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> any scum have an insight tbh?
Click to expand...

@Keldeo care to share?


----------



## Vipera Magnifica

I read through skylar's ISO and am pretty sure she is scum now fwiw. And I'm vibing with Butterfree's logic, so I am going to try vigging skylar tonight. There's no evidence there actually is a roleblocker, but if there is and I get blocked tonight, I'm down for a kyeugh lynch tomorrow.

God I am actually kinda mad I let myself get talked out of my tunnel on skylar from a few days ago. I WAS RIGHT but just didn't have a ton of evidence to show it yet. Town's chances of winning are pretty slim at this point but let me have this one little victory... VonLPose.jpg

If I'm wrong and cause the mafia to win let's just forget all about it okay


----------



## Butterfree

kyeugh said:


> i can kind of see where you're coming from with a lot of this post, but i really don't get this. in a vacuum i guess i can see what you're saying, but pretty much _no one_ has wanted to press on keldeo this entire game, and even now, when we can be virtually certain that one of keldeo/blu are scum, he'd only arrived at a majority a few hours ago. i've been trying to get people to acknowledge this all day, and have been sitting on this vote here for _ages_ and very actively campaigning for other people to do the same, which is not exactly reluctantly moving onto him because he's under fire. i get that there's an element of self-preservation at play there, but i don't think it's really fair to say that i've been dragging my feet on the keldeo thing and trying to hedge on the whole blu when i've been pretty transparent about my thinking during all this and it's been an uphill battle until a few hours ago anyway.


As for this: I'll admit that at this point in the ISO I was pretty deep in the kyeugh/Keldeo w/w tunnel. _However_, by the time you voted Keldeo today, the only votes that had been placed were bluwii on Keldeo, Trebek on Keldeo, mewtini on Keldeo, and rari_teh on Keldeo. So yes, I would _definitely_ say Keldeo was under fire. Votes only moved onto you after you came in.


----------



## mewtini

damn now i'm out of my VM tunnel, i just thought it was weird he kept defending skylar once evidence had actually cropped up


----------



## Vipera Magnifica

mewtini said:


> damn now i'm out of my VM tunnel, i just thought it was weird he kept defending skylar once evidence had actually cropped up


I thought the skylar wagon was meant to be a distraction to move the vote off Keldeo but now I see they're probably w/w


----------



## Bluwiikoon

Seems a little quiet for EoD at the moment  Scary scary

How's everybody holding up?


----------



## mewtini

wasn't going to mention for fear of derailment, but it looks like things are kind of quiet now, and i figure i'll say it just in case i die: the coexistence of town cop/rolecop points at a mafia godfather. idk how jack would handle the flip, but if it's held constant wrt the copcheck, they could have died already and flipped green


----------



## kyeugh

the mafia definitely do not kill butterfree or mp7 tonight.  i'm fairly sure no one with a vt claim dies either, because it narrows down the pool of people who can be telling the truth about it.  mafia certainly don't kill me because i'm the probabllynche  tomorrow and it's not like there's anything that can possibly clear me any time soon since there's nothing actually damning me either.

imo the most likely things to occur tonight are either that mewt gets blocked and vm dies but his kill goes through, or they just kill mewt and don't block anyone (meaning vm's kill still goes through).  i think it would be a bit silly for the mafia to block vm, since it just robs them of an extra townie kill unless they suspect he's bluffing.

at this point, assuming keldeo flips red, the probable mafia are rari/trebek/koko/mist tbh.  mist is swappable for blu.

i invite vm to shoot me tonight because i don't want to have to repeat this Day, but i am somewhat cynical about how much it will actually help town tbh.  assuming we don't lose immediately, we have at best a 50% chance of winning because the mafia will be able to form a block and force a rand.  so i do still think our _best _shot at winning is if vm doesn't shoot at all, but honestly, i'm lowkey just ready to take the L on this game because it's almost not worth having to shout at a brick wall for another 72 hours.

looking back, if i'd just clammed up with rari i'd be 100% clear right now and we'd have an extra doctor.  depressing.  honestly that fuck up probably cost the game.  sorry y'all.  i can never trust again   it's still  that no one seems to want to consider the world where rari is scum and blocked me because they predicted my move, because that would be the most rational thing for scum to do and it perfectly explains pretty much everything that has happened since then, but.

(it is also kind of weird in retrospect that it took me this long into the day to realize that there's no way rari isn't scum.  i'm kind of just putting the pieces together i guess.  i can't really blame mewt for being so pocketed given she doesn't have any mechanical reason to believe i'm telling the truth. rari has played really well tbh! )


----------



## mewtini

Bluwiikoon said:


> Seems a little quiet for EoD at the moment  Scary scary
> 
> How's everybody holding up?


hi king. it's stressful but we are vibing. i just drank a liter of water at once


----------



## Bluwiikoon

Mewtini getting hella hydrated holy shit!!! 

I have consumed nutrient and will also hydrate :D


----------



## Trebek

mewtini said:


> wasn't going to mention for fear of derailment, but it looks like things are kind of quiet now, and i figure i'll say it just in case i die: the coexistence of town cop/rolecop points at a mafia godfather. idk how jack would handle the flip, but if it's held constant wrt the copcheck, they could have died already and flipped green


shoot, i never thought about this bc i was only going off of how godfather operated in ToS, but this could actually explain some of the rougher edges


----------



## Trebek

i frankly don’t see why w!rari would choose to neighborize in the way they did


----------



## mewtini

kyeugh said:


> (it is also kind of weird in retrospect that it took me this long into the day to realize that there's no way rari isn't scum. i'm kind of just putting the pieces together i guess. i can't really blame mewt for being so pocketed given she doesn't have any mechanical reason to believe i'm telling the truth. rari has played really well tbh! )


i am sorry tbh


----------



## mewtini

Trebek said:


> i frankly don’t see why w!rari would choose to neighborize in the way they did


yeah. like she picked me n0 and then we kinda strategized after that together on who to choose ... she had me fairly pocketed by end of d1, even though i didn't claim to her until a while later. idk why she chooses to reneighborize me as a wolf


----------



## Bluwiikoon

If rari is wolf I will hand them my wig


----------



## rari_teh

mewtini said:


> wasn't going to mention for fear of derailment, but it looks like things are kind of quiet now, and i figure i'll say it just in case i die: the coexistence of town cop/rolecop points at a mafia godfather. idk how jack would handle the flip, but if it's held constant wrt the copcheck, they could have died already and flipped green


the godfather would probably be myuma in that scenario


----------



## kyeugh

mewtini said:


> wasn't going to mention for fear of derailment, but it looks like things are kind of quiet now, and i figure i'll say it just in case i die: the coexistence of town cop/rolecop points at a mafia godfather. idk how jack would handle the flip, but if it's held constant wrt the copcheck, they could have died already and flipped green


hey, that’d be nice if we secretly have another dead wolf. it could only be myuma in that case, right? unless rnp was the godfather and was claiming the real roleblocker’s actions as his own...  i kinda doubt anyone else blocks stryke though.


----------



## mewtini

if rari is a wolf then i'm gonna say it now. absolute fucking GOAT


----------



## mewtini

it could be tofu too tbh.


----------



## Trebek

at the end of the day (get it bc eod haha), i trust mewt’s ability to read rari from 3 Day’s worth of private conversation


----------



## rari_teh

mewtini said:


> Trebek said:
> 
> 
> 
> i frankly don’t see why w!rari would choose to neighborize in the way they did
> 
> 
> 
> yeah. like she picked me n0 and then we kinda strategized after that together on who to choose ... she had me fairly pocketed by end of d1, even though i didn't claim to her until a while later. idk why she chooses to reneighborize me as a wolf
Click to expand...

i wouldn’t tbh

i wish i were wolf so that i could be flattered by y’all’s compliments tbh


----------



## Trebek

if i were w!rari i’d target kyeugh D4

but that’s just me


----------



## Trebek

haha ninjad lol ninjad haha


----------



## Trebek

what’s the current vote count? still worried about a large wolf swing last minute, even in this AU where only 4 are alive


----------



## mewtini

fr if rari has been duping me this whole time i will be really really proud of her for it. but yeah - i mean the possibilities for GF would be myuma/ils/herbe/tofu (non-mafia nightkills) but ILS was checked and herbe claimed, so it's down to myuma/tofu. i kind of want to believe it's tofu but that's just because that was my shot lol.

anyway we have 15 minutes left, if anyone else has anything they want to say pls do - i just wanted to get that possibility out there because it didn't seem like it had been thought of



Trebek said:


> if i were w!rari i’d target kyeugh D4


huh, what do you mean?


----------



## kyeugh

mewtini said:


> it could be tofu too tbh.


oh yeah!

i don’t really know why rari neighborized this way either but the odds that i got blocked of all people for any other reason are basically zero. and you will all see that i’ve been telling the truth all along at some point tbh.

if i do die toNight, when i flip green, i absolutely think it should implicate rari. it just makes sense.


----------



## mewtini

keldeo (6): vm, koko, skylar, mist, bfree, blu 
skylar (3): mewt, rari, trebek 
blu (1): keldeo 

i don't think it's changed since i did this count


----------



## Trebek

mewtini said:


> Trebek said:
> 
> 
> 
> if i were w!rari i’d target kyeugh D4
> 
> 
> 
> huh, what do you mean?
Click to expand...

you were basically mechclearing rari D3, so if i was rari i’d go back to kyeugh to try to fully cement the double pocket


----------



## Bluwiikoon

I fear the swings and the vote changes! I'd imagine at least one vote on Keldeo is a wolf to lead us into a false sense of security   before they flipflop


----------



## Vipera Magnifica

there is no way skylar _isn't_ wolf, just based on PR claims

there should only be 10 town power roles
Emmy - confirmed cop
Herbe - confirmed rolecop
ILS - confirmed doctor
RNP - confirmed jailer
Tofu - confirmed lynchproof
Butterfree - fishing brother, least likely to be scum after mewtini
MP7 - see above
Mewtini - greenchecked by Emmy and confirmed JoaT by Herbe
rari - confirmed neighborizer by both mewtini and skylar
VM - I know I'm vigilante ofc

which leaves only skylar, who has to be mafia


----------



## rari_teh

fwiw my count is the same


----------



## mewtini

rari_teh said:


> fwiw my count is the same


#JustMasonThings


----------



## kyeugh

Vipera Magnifica said:


> there is no way skylar _isn't_ wolf, just based on PR claims
> 
> there should only be 10 town power roles
> Emmy - confirmed cop
> Herbe - confirmed rolecop
> ILS - confirmed doctor
> RNP - confirmed jailer
> Tofu - confirmed lynchproof
> Butterfree - fishing brother, least likely to be scum after mewtini
> MP7 - see above
> Mewtini - greenchecked by Emmy and confirmed JoaT by Herbe
> rari - confirmed neighborizer by both mewtini and skylar
> VM - I know I'm vigilante ofc
> 
> which leaves only skylar, who has to be mafia


well no, as i've been saying, if i'm not mafia then rari is.  i will agree there's certainly one between us and rari does have their role confirmed which is a good look for them, so i don't completely disagree with this thought process, but it doesn't mean that it's literally impossible i'm not mafia or something.


----------



## kyeugh

Bluwiikoon said:


> I fear the swings and the vote changes! I'd imagine at least one vote on Keldeo is a wolf to lead us into a false sense of security   before they flipflop


tbh yeah, if there's a swing i expect it'll be keldeo and maybe koko (?) onto me at the last minute.  i'm kind of surprised keldeo's still voting where he is.

btw, jack gives a ten minute grace period after eod to correct your vote—is that only if what he has down for you is erroneous, or can you actually just choose to change your vote during that period because you feel like it?


----------



## mewtini

it's in case he messes up thread votecount i believe


----------



## Vipera Magnifica

kyeugh said:


> Vipera Magnifica said:
> 
> 
> 
> there is no way skylar _isn't_ wolf, just based on PR claims
> 
> there should only be 10 town power roles
> Emmy - confirmed cop
> Herbe - confirmed rolecop
> ILS - confirmed doctor
> RNP - confirmed jailer
> Tofu - confirmed lynchproof
> Butterfree - fishing brother, least likely to be scum after mewtini
> MP7 - see above
> Mewtini - greenchecked by Emmy and confirmed JoaT by Herbe
> rari - confirmed neighborizer by both mewtini and skylar
> VM - I know I'm vigilante ofc
> 
> which leaves only skylar, who has to be mafia
> 
> 
> 
> well no, as i've been saying, if i'm not mafia then rari is.  i will agree there's certainly one between us and rari does have their role confirmed which is a good look for them, so i don't completely disagree with this thought process, but it doesn't mean that it's literally impossible i'm not mafia or something.
Click to expand...

if i were mafia i'd probably try to come up with a very underutilized role that wouldn't be counterclaimed, like necromancer

you have nothing to actually support that claim while rari has mewtini and (ironically) you to support theirs


----------



## JackPK

kyeugh said:


> btw, jack gives a ten minute grace period after eod to correct your vote—is that only if what he has down for you is erroneous, or can you actually just choose to change your vote during that period because you feel like it?


Only if I made an error.


----------



## Bluwiikoon

It's probably still too early to call it, but I'd be interested in reading Keldeo's ISO to see just who he's shaded and who he's defended over the course of the game when he flips.


----------



## kyeugh

Vipera Magnifica said:


> kyeugh said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Vipera Magnifica said:
> 
> 
> 
> there is no way skylar _isn't_ wolf, just based on PR claims
> 
> there should only be 10 town power roles
> Emmy - confirmed cop
> Herbe - confirmed rolecop
> ILS - confirmed doctor
> RNP - confirmed jailer
> Tofu - confirmed lynchproof
> Butterfree - fishing brother, least likely to be scum after mewtini
> MP7 - see above
> Mewtini - greenchecked by Emmy and confirmed JoaT by Herbe
> rari - confirmed neighborizer by both mewtini and skylar
> VM - I know I'm vigilante ofc
> 
> which leaves only skylar, who has to be mafia
> 
> 
> 
> well no, as i've been saying, if i'm not mafia then rari is.  i will agree there's certainly one between us and rari does have their role confirmed which is a good look for them, so i don't completely disagree with this thought process, but it doesn't mean that it's literally impossible i'm not mafia or something.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> if i were mafia i'd probably try to come up with a very underutilized role that wouldn't be counterclaimed, like necromancer
> 
> you have nothing to actually support that claim while rari has mewtini and (ironically) you to support theirs
Click to expand...

yeah, i'm not disagreeing with that.  i understand how it _looks_, i'm just disagreeing that it actually means i'm 100% mafia, because there is still a possible (and actual) world in which i'm not, and rari is instead.


----------



## Keldeo

mewtini said:


> keldeo (6): vm, koko, skylar, mist, bfree, blu
> skylar (3): mewt, rari, trebek
> blu (1): keldeo
> 
> i don't think it's changed since i did this count


Dare I say dead air dead villager?


----------



## Trebek

Bluwiikoon said:


> It's probably still too early to call it, but I'd be interested in reading Keldeo's ISO to see just who he's shaded and who he's defended over the course of the game when he flips.


i think if keldeo flips red, the trebekkening would implicate either keldeo/kyeugh wolftheater or keldeo/me wolftheater


----------



## mewtini

ok mafia, time for y'all to mass-flip onto blu so we know who you guys are <3


----------



## mewtini

Trebek said:


> Bluwiikoon said:
> 
> 
> 
> It's probably still too early to call it, but I'd be interested in reading Keldeo's ISO to see just who he's shaded and who he's defended over the course of the game when he flips.
> 
> 
> 
> i think if keldeo flips red, the trebekkening would implicate either keldeo/kyeugh wolftheater or keldeo/me wolftheater
Click to expand...

also koko iirc, i remember feeling some emotion reading their interactions but i might be misremembering


----------



## Novae

@Vipera Magnifica will not be shooting until and unless butterfree or MP7 is nightkilled


----------



## Novae

or a kill fails at night

in either case, we discuss who dies beforehand


----------



## Trebek

Mist1422 said:


> or a kill fails at night
> 
> in either case, we discuss who dies beforehand


i don’t vibe with this mandate

vm do your thing


----------



## rari_teh

farewell, my dears. at least we’re lynching a mafia.


----------



## Bluwiikoon

Do we play the Majora's Mask final hours theme or is that a toMorrow thing


----------



## mewtini

what if mafia had a redirector. wouldnt that be an lol


----------



## Novae

no!

it's 6v5 right now so even if a wolf dies today, a misshot at night costs us the game


----------



## Vipera Magnifica

Mist1422 said:


> or a kill fails at night
> 
> in either case, we discuss who dies beforehand


----------



## Novae

how dare you use my favorite reaction image against me tbh


----------



## Trebek

t


Vipera Magnifica said:


> Mist1422 said:
> 
> 
> 
> or a kill fails at night
> 
> in either case, we discuss who dies beforehand
Click to expand...

this is the energy i wish i had


----------



## JackPK

*The day phase is now over. Vote totals in a moment.*


----------



## kyeugh

Trebek said:


> Mist1422 said:
> 
> 
> 
> or a kill fails at night
> 
> in either case, we discuss who dies beforehand
> 
> 
> 
> i don’t vibe with this mandate
> 
> vm do your thing
Click to expand...

mfw i know the alignment of vm's proposed target and it is the opposite of mine


----------



## Bluwiikoon

I'm envisioning VM tonight in a western standoff


----------



## Vipera Magnifica

the fact scum hasn't last-minute vote rushed onto kyeugh proves she's not town tbh


----------



## Keldeo

Just wanted to say, btw, that I’m irked by the implication that I was actually here and reading while not posting to craft a flavor claim or something, and that being tunneled in LYLO is pretty soul-sucking regardless of your alignment.

Good luck, have fun!


----------



## Keldeo

I love you all!


----------



## rari_teh

Trebek said:


> this is the energy i wish i had


me_irl


----------



## mewtini

Keldeo said:


> I love you all!


i love you too keldeo ;;


----------



## JackPK

*Active votes*
Vipera Magnifica votes Keldeo (#3959)
Trebek votes kyeugh (#4044)
mewtini votes kyeugh (#4098)
rari_teh votes kyeugh (#4112)
Keldeo votes Bluwiikoon (#4129)
kokorico votes Keldeo (#4258)
kyeugh votes Keldeo (#4365)
Mist1422 votes Keldeo (#4366)
Butterfree votes Keldeo (#4369)
Bluwiikoon votes Keldeo (#4374)



Spoiler: Full vote history



Active votes bolded.

Bluwiikoon votes Keldeo (#3757)
Trebek votes Keldeo (#3874)
mewtini votes Keldeo (#3876)
rari_teh votes Keldeo (#3887)
kyeugh votes Keldeo (#3920)
mewtini votes kyeugh (#3926)
kokorico votes kyeugh (#3955)
*Vipera Magnifica votes Keldeo (#3959)*
mewtini votes Keldeo (#3961)
*Trebek votes kyeugh (#4044)
mewtini votes kyeugh (#4098)
rari_teh votes kyeugh (#4112)
Keldeo votes Bluwiikoon (#4129)
kokorico votes Keldeo (#4258)*
kyeugh votes Bluwiikoon (#4309)
Bluwiikoon votes Bluwiikoon (#4310)
*kyeugh votes Keldeo (#4365)
Mist1422 votes Keldeo (#4366)
Butterfree votes Keldeo (#4369)
Bluwiikoon votes Keldeo (#4374)*



*Vote totals*
Keldeo (6) (Vipera Magnifica, kokorico, kyeugh, Mist1422, Butterfree, Bluwiikoon)
kyeugh (3) (Trebek, mewtini, rari_teh)
Bluwiikoon (1) (Keldeo)

If any votes are wrong or missing, you have *10 minutes* to alert me to them.


----------



## JackPK

After a more quiet, uncertain day, the cats jostle back and forth between three suspects. Gradually, the votes accumulate onto *Keldeo*, who is escorted to the time-out basement. A full pat-down reveals another canister of catnip, revealing his traitorous alignment.

*Keldeo is dead. He was scum.*

*Night Four has begun. Please submit your night actions.

As half the players are now dead, we are now moving to 48-hour days and 24-hour nights.

Day Five will begin June 18 at 3pm EST/7pm UTC.* 



Spoiler: Pings and flips



@Butterfree
@Mawile - killed N0, *not scum*
@Keldeo - yeeted D4, *scum*
@Herbe - killed N3, *not scum*
@kyeugh
@mewtini
@Seshas - killed N1, *not scum*
@IndigoEmmy - killed N3, *not scum*
@kokorico
@I liek Squirtles - killed N2, *not scum*
@Trebek
@rari_teh
@myuma - killed N1, *not scum*
@M Plus 7
@Tofu - killed N3, *not scum*
@Bluwiikoon
@Stryke - yeeted D1, *not scum*
@Vipera Magnifica
@RedneckPhoenix - yeeted D1, *not scum*
@Mist1422
@Mr. Ultracool - yeeted D2, *scum*





Spoiler: Game summary so far



*N0
Mawile* was killed. He was *not scum*.

*D1
Stryke* was yeeted. He was *not scum*.

*N1
Seshas* was killed. They were *not scum*.
*myuma* was killed. She was *not scum*.

*D2
Mr. Ultracool* was yeeted. He was *scum*.

*N2
I liek Squirtles* was killed. He was *not scum*.

*D3
RedneckPhoenix* was yeeted. He was *not scum*.

*N4
IndigoEmmy* was killed. She was *not scum*.
*Herbe* was killed. He was *not scum*.
*Tofu* was killed. She was *not scum*.

*D4
Keldeo* was yeeted. He was *scum*.


----------



## JackPK

The atmosphere continues to be tense as the cats rise for another day and another life-or-death choice. As usual, one of their number is missing; this time, it's *Vipera Magnifica*, of whom no trace can be found but a lonely trace of dust on the windowsill he once made his perching spot.

*Vipera Magnifica is dead. He was not scum.*

*Day Five has begun. You may now post and discuss who to yeet today. Abstaining (no yeeting) is allowed. Night Five will begin June 20 at 3pm EST/7pm UTC.* 



Spoiler: Pings and flips



@Butterfree
@Mawile - killed N0, *not scum*
@Keldeo - yeeted D4, *scum*
@Herbe - killed N3, *not scum*
@kyeugh
@mewtini
@Seshas - killed N1, *not scum*
@IndigoEmmy - killed N3, *not scum*
@kokorico
@I liek Squirtles - killed N2, *not scum*
@Trebek
@rari_teh
@myuma - killed N1, *not scum*
@M Plus 7
@Tofu - killed N3, *not scum*
@Bluwiikoon
@Stryke - yeeted D1, *not scum*
@Vipera Magnifica - killed N4, *not scum*
@RedneckPhoenix - yeeted D3, *not scum*
@Mist1422
@Mr. Ultracool - yeeted D2, *scum*





Spoiler: Game summary so far



*N0
Mawile* was killed. He was *not scum*.

*D1
Stryke* was yeeted. He was *not scum*.

*N1
Seshas* was killed. They were *not scum*.
*myuma* was killed. She was *not scum*.

*D2
Mr. Ultracool* was yeeted. He was *scum*.

*N2
I liek Squirtles* was killed. He was *not scum*.

*D3
RedneckPhoenix* was yeeted. He was *not scum*.

*N3
IndigoEmmy* was killed. She was *not scum*.
*Herbe* was killed. He was *not scum*.
*Tofu* was killed. She was *not scum*.

*D4
Keldeo* was yeeted. He was *scum*.

*N4
Vipera Magnifica* was killed. He was *not scum*.


----------



## Trebek

bad news guys


----------



## Novae

Trebek said:


> bad news guys


what is it?


----------



## Novae

mewtini, got any relevant info?


----------



## Trebek

Mist1422 said:


> Trebek said:
> 
> 
> 
> bad news guys
> 
> 
> 
> what is it?
Click to expand...

vm’s dead


----------



## Novae

Trebek said:


> Mist1422 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Trebek said:
> 
> 
> 
> bad news guys
> 
> 
> 
> what is it?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> vm’s dead
Click to expand...

:pensive_snake:


----------



## rari_teh

good morning town
good morning *kyeugh*


----------



## Novae

I for one am hyped we successfully yeeted a wolf yesterday


----------



## kyeugh

can’t wait  for trebek to do it next


----------



## Trebek

kyeugh said:


> can’t wait  for trebek to do it next


i’ll give it a few minutes  i’m flattered that you thought of me tho <3


----------



## Novae

@mewtini 
One kinda important thing, how much did rari mention about their chat with kyeugh to you D3?


----------



## kyeugh

i’m  sad because i just  spent the last hour making a high effort meme in case i died but now that vm is dead it won’t be funny anymore even if i do


----------



## rari_teh

Mist1422 said:


> I for one am hyped we successfully yeeted a wolf yesterday


I had a gif saved for the occasion but, given the current situation we are in, I don’t think it’s warranted yet :P


----------



## rari_teh

kyeugh said:


> i’m  sad because i just  spent the last hour making a high effort meme in case i died but now that vm is dead it won’t be funny anymore even if i do


pretend you died and post it anyway


----------



## mewtini

Mist1422 said:


> @mewtini
> One kinda important thing, how much did rari mention about their chat with kyeugh to you D3?


a lot
i have seen their entire log tbh
also i’ll be spotty for the next few hours (i am obtaining a dog lmao) but i really am still alive huh. i’m sorry @Vipera Magnifica for doubting you. you were a king


----------



## rari_teh

mewtini said:


> i am obtaining a dog lmao


hello, i am the pet tax collector


----------



## Trebek

mewtini said:


> i am obtaining a dog lmao


Dogs (2020)


----------



## kyeugh

rari_teh said:


> kyeugh said:
> 
> 
> 
> i’m  sad because i just  spent the last hour making a high effort meme in case i died but now that vm is dead it won’t be funny anymore even if i do
> 
> 
> 
> pretend you died and post it anyway
Click to expand...




Spoiler


----------



## Novae

Okay yeah

I am now of the belief that rari and kyeugh cannot be mafia together

as such, there are confirmed to be three mafia between me/Blu/Trebek/koko

yes?


----------



## Trebek

kyeugh said:


> rari_teh said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> kyeugh said:
> 
> 
> 
> i’m  sad because i just  spent the last hour making a high effort meme in case i died but now that vm is dead it won’t be funny anymore even if i do
> 
> 
> 
> pretend you died and post it anyway
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler
Click to expand...

this is true art


----------



## Novae

kyeugh said:


> rari_teh said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> kyeugh said:
> 
> 
> 
> i’m  sad because i just  spent the last hour making a high effort meme in case i died but now that vm is dead it won’t be funny anymore even if i do
> 
> 
> 
> pretend you died and post it anyway
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler
Click to expand...

you meme but that’s incredibly good art


----------



## Trebek

Mist1422 said:


> Okay yeah
> 
> I am now of the belief that rari and kyeugh cannot be mafia together
> 
> as such, there are confirmed to be three mafia between me/Blu/Trebek/koko
> 
> yes?


unsure - there actually is a non-negligible chance that a godfather already died and flipped green - that could explain why mafia didn’t attempt to swing the vote yesterDay even with some town not voting

in which case it would be two mafia between the four of us

so either 2 or 3


----------



## rari_teh

kyeugh said:


> rari_teh said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> kyeugh said:
> 
> 
> 
> i’m  sad because i just  spent the last hour making a high effort meme in case i died but now that vm is dead it won’t be funny anymore even if i do
> 
> 
> 
> pretend you died and post it anyway
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler
Click to expand...

LMAOOOOOO
I want to unvote now just because of this masterpiece tbh


----------



## kyeugh

the fact that they didn’t swing the vote kind of makes me think they win at majority rather than parity tbh


----------



## Trebek

kyeugh said:


> the fact that they didn’t swing the vote kind of makes me think they win at majority rather than parity tbh


either that, or they are further away from parity/majority than town thinks (hence godfather spec, even if mafia don’t want to talk about godfather spec bc they want the mysterious final member to be a mislynch)


----------



## Novae

I don’t believe a godfather would flip as not scum?

I could buy outgroup either existing or having flipped but a godfather seems weird to me


----------



## Trebek

Mist1422 said:


> I don’t believe a godfather would flip as not scum?
> 
> I could buy outgroup either existing or having flipped but a godfather seems weird to me


idk if we can rule it out tho

i wasn’t thinking about it at first because GF would flip red in Town of Salem, but ToS also reveals role on death so i’m now taking that with a grain of salt


----------



## Trebek

and besides, even if it turns out to be not the case, it’ll be interesting to see how different people talk about it


----------



## Novae

I also think that GF speculation doesn’t really matter? Because like, RNP was confirmed jailkeeper and iirc the other yeets were VT claims so it can’t have us be wrong on kyeugh/rari v/w


----------



## rari_teh

Mist1422 said:


> I also think that GF speculation doesn’t really matter? Because like, RNP was confirmed jailkeeper and iirc the other yeets were VT claims so it can’t have us be wrong on kyeugh/rari v/w


myuma was unclaimed tbh


----------



## kyeugh

yeah i’m kind of undecided on how i believe gf would flip
i do think that gf spec is not way too useful atm just because its main utility is in figuring out how many mafia there are left and given that we’re not in lylo (i believe?) either way and the answer is “multiple” no matter what, i think the presence or absence of a gf shouldn’t really affect our solving that much at this time
if there’s a gf i think it pretty much has to be myuma though.  i was thinking yesterday maybe it could be rnp bc he could be using the actual roleblocker’s actions as cover, but like, i really don’t see anyone else making the choices he claimed
and i kinda don’t buy the tofu thing just because it just makes the most sense to me that she/vm were being honest about everything


----------



## mewtini

oh yeah i didn’t mean the gf thing to distract too much. i just thought i was going to die tbh and wanted to get it on the table in case.

also i healed rari last night because i thought vm was going to vig her


----------



## kyeugh

i was just about to ask what you did tbh.  very interesting


----------



## mewtini

and figured if he was mafia like i tinfoiled, or if he went for skylar, that it wouldn’t matter otherwise


----------



## mewtini

awk if rari is mafia but ill vibe


----------



## Novae

rari_teh said:


> Mist1422 said:
> 
> 
> 
> I also think that GF speculation doesn’t really matter? Because like, RNP was confirmed jailkeeper and iirc the other yeets were VT claims so it can’t have us be wrong on kyeugh/rari v/w
> 
> 
> 
> myuma was unclaimed tbh
Click to expand...

yes but we’re treating it as a VT claim for the purposes of PR counting

I’m specifically wondering if any of Tofu/RNP/Herbe could be a godfather and be falsely taking up a PR slot

Mewtini shot Tofu right?


----------



## kyeugh

the results of the night are very clear and make perfect sense from my pov and i feel silly for not predicting it
they also make by far the most sense if mafia win at majority


----------



## kyeugh

how would it be herbe? like if there was a different mafia rolecop and he was claiming their results as cover?


----------



## Novae

I was actually almost entirely sure mewtini was going to die so that comes as a bit of a shock to me tbh


----------



## rari_teh

Mist1422 said:


> rari_teh said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mist1422 said:
> 
> 
> 
> I also think that GF speculation doesn’t really matter? Because like, RNP was confirmed jailkeeper and iirc the other yeets were VT claims so it can’t have us be wrong on kyeugh/rari v/w
> 
> 
> 
> myuma was unclaimed tbh
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> yes but we’re treating it as a VT claim for the purposes of PR counting
> 
> I’m specifically wondering if any of Tofu/RNP/Herbe could be a godfather and be falsely taking up a PR slot
> 
> Mewtini shot Tofu right?
Click to expand...

mewtini and VM, simultaneously


----------



## rari_teh

Mist1422 said:


> I was actually almost entirely sure mewtini was going to die so that comes as a bit of a shock to me tbh


fwiw i thought that too


----------



## Novae

kyeugh said:


> how would it be herbe? like if there was a different mafia rolecop and he was claiming their results as cover?


I was actually thinking it wasn’t possible for herbe or RNP but now that you bring it up just maybe


----------



## mewtini

VM and i shot myuma, VM shot ILS, i shot tofu, VM shot herbe


----------



## Novae

rari_teh said:


> Mist1422 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rari_teh said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mist1422 said:
> 
> 
> 
> I also think that GF speculation doesn’t really matter? Because like, RNP was confirmed jailkeeper and iirc the other yeets were VT claims so it can’t have us be wrong on kyeugh/rari v/w
> 
> 
> 
> myuma was unclaimed tbh
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> yes but we’re treating it as a VT claim for the purposes of PR counting
> 
> I’m specifically wondering if any of Tofu/RNP/Herbe could be a godfather and be falsely taking up a PR slot
> 
> Mewtini shot Tofu right?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> mewtini and VM, simultaneously
Click to expand...

I thought VM shot Herbe?


----------



## mewtini

regretting that i didn’t just track last night because i thought i’d die tonight. didn’t think that VM would die because i forgot about the very real chance he was town. :(


----------



## Novae

I am also a little bit starting to tinfoil mewtini for not protecting VM but it’s not too big of a jump in logic so I’ll leave it alone for now

Also I keep forgetting about the cop check


----------



## kyeugh

i really thought you were gonna track him tbh
it would’ve almost certainly turned up two wolves too, unless he didn’t shoot/shot rari


----------



## rari_teh

Mist1422 said:


> rari_teh said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mist1422 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rari_teh said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mist1422 said:
> 
> 
> 
> I also think that GF speculation doesn’t really matter? Because like, RNP was confirmed jailkeeper and iirc the other yeets were VT claims so it can’t have us be wrong on kyeugh/rari v/w
> 
> 
> 
> myuma was unclaimed tbh
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> yes but we’re treating it as a VT claim for the purposes of PR counting
> 
> I’m specifically wondering if any of Tofu/RNP/Herbe could be a godfather and be falsely taking up a PR slot
> 
> Mewtini shot Tofu right?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> mewtini and VM, simultaneously
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I thought VM shot Herbe?
Click to expand...

whooops, read the question as “mewtini shot myuma” D:
mewtini shot Tofu, yes.


----------



## mewtini

kyeugh said:


> i really thought you were gonna track him tbh
> it would’ve almost certainly turned up two wolves too, unless he didn’t shoot/shot rari


i thought about that but i didn’t think i’d live to report back!!


----------



## kyeugh

that’s fair, hindsight is also 20/20
just sadboiz looking back on it

i’m interested in what everyone thinks happened last night btw


----------



## Novae

kyeugh said:


> that’s fair, hindsight is also 20/20
> just sadboiz looking back on it
> 
> i’m interested in what everyone thinks happened last night btw


wdym?


----------



## kyeugh

like why there was only one kill


----------



## Novae

kyeugh said:


> like why there was only one kill


Because VM read and agreed with my argument for holstering most likely


----------



## rari_teh

either VM shot me and mewtini protected me or VM got scared about the possibility of a parity win and folded

mafia probably killed VM because they saw a full vig as a bigger threat than a cloudy-powered JoaT tbh


----------



## Trebek

kyeugh said:


> that’s fair, hindsight is also 20/20
> just sadboiz looking back on it
> 
> i’m interested in what everyone thinks happened last night btw


my guess is that either:
mafia decided that vm was more likely to target mafia than town, and decided to rb/kill him

mafia decided to kill vm, and vm targeted rari


----------



## Trebek

rari_teh said:


> either VM shot me and mewtini protected me or VM got scared about the possibility of a parity win and folded
> 
> mafia probably killed VM because they saw a full vig as a bigger threat than a cloudy-powered JoaT tbh


this, especially bc mewt can’t currently kill


----------



## Novae

Also, like

I think if mafia want to win this they can’t do it in F3

Because we have kinda stopped considering dark fishing bros


----------



## Trebek

F3?


----------



## Novae

Trebek said:


> F3?


final 3 tbh!


----------



## rari_teh

Trebek said:


> rari_teh said:
> 
> 
> 
> either VM shot me and mewtini protected me or VM got scared about the possibility of a parity win and folded
> 
> mafia probably killed VM because they saw a full vig as a bigger threat than a cloudy-powered JoaT tbh
> 
> 
> 
> this, especially bc mewt can’t currently kill
Click to expand...

they could’ve wifomed her ‘can’t kill’ claim, but apparently either didn’t or shrugged it off tbh



Mist1422 said:


> I think if mafia want to win this they can’t do it in F3


forgive my ignorance, but what is F3?


----------



## rari_teh

ninja’d by the answer :P


----------



## Novae

What did skylar claim as her power?


----------



## rari_teh

Mist1422 said:


> What did skylar claim as her power?


one-shot necro
claimed to be roleblocked N3 while trying to revive ils and claimed that Jack considered that as her single shot used


----------



## kyeugh

Mist1422 said:


> What did skylar claim as her power?


one shot necromancer, i used it on ils night before last and it was blocked, jack has confirmed to me privately that that used up my shot


----------



## rari_teh

*being used


----------



## Novae

I mean
who roleblocks skylar n3, wasn’t she solidly in the PoE at that time?


----------



## kyeugh

imo the only things realistic to assume that vm might have done last night are shoot me, shoot rari, or shoot no one.

we'll never know if he indeed shot but if he did, the results would have been really bad for the mafia no matter what.  if he shot me, i'd flip town, which would blow a hole in their entire plan for toDay.  if he shot rari, well, he'd shoot rari, and they'd be down one.  his kill would still go through even if they killed him, so he needed to be blocked; but if they just blocked him and killed someone else, he'd come in the next day to say he was blocked, which wouldn't work either.  so the only thing the mafia could do to keep my lynch on the table is both block and shoot him, hence the single kill.  regardless of who or whether he shot, that was the safest play for mafia to make.

we're currently at 4:9 mafia:town, so the mafia can't force a rand today.  their best bet was to shut up and kill vm, and bank on just one townie believing believing rari over me, which is to be fair not a bad wager whatsoever—and it means that keeping mewt around wasn't the worst thing in the world either, because i can't imagine a whole lot that's going to get her to vote against rari at this point, which means the mafia pretty much have my lynch in the bag.  that'll bring us down to parity, and there's no one left to block them and no more vig to shoot one of them down overnight, so they'll certainly win overNight, because all they have to do is kill mewt (who can't possibly be protected).  pretty good plan tbh.

no new information is going to come out in my defense today, unless i can somehow prove the presence of a roleblocker (besides the fact that it's the most logical explanation of the lack of kill tonight imo, regardless of what you think of my alignment; both w!me and w!rari would have reasons to block vm's shot last Night).  that is the current state of the game, though, so it is pretty much up to you guys to make the right decision.  all i ask is that you all really, really examine your feelings about rari, because if even one townie makes the wrong decision, we all lose.  on the other hand, if we do lynch rari today, i think it's pretty much game over for the mafia.  i'm basically the last good townie mislynch left.  if the game goes on to toMorrow, the remaining townies are going to have a very good idea of who the remaining wolves are.

anyway, there's nowhere for me to put my vote today but *rari_teh*.


----------



## kyeugh

Mist1422 said:


> I mean
> who roleblocks skylar n3, wasn’t she solidly in the PoE at that time?


 rari would, because i fullclaimed to them when they neighborized me, and they predicted that i would use my power to revive ils.


----------



## rari_teh

Mist1422 said:


> I mean
> who roleblocks skylar n3, wasn’t she solidly in the PoE at that time?


’twas N2
I mistyped


----------



## rari_teh

kyeugh said:


> Mist1422 said:
> 
> 
> 
> I mean
> who roleblocks skylar n3, wasn’t she solidly in the PoE at that time?
> 
> 
> 
> rari would, because i fullclaimed to them when they neighborized me, and they predicted that i would use my power to revive ils.
Click to expand...

you could’ve linked to the post where I actually dogwhistled you to revive him tbh
which was, for context, after you were allegedly roleblocked and before you appeared inthread


----------



## rari_teh

rari_teh said:


> Mist1422 said:
> 
> 
> 
> I mean
> who roleblocks skylar n3, wasn’t she solidly in the PoE at that time?
> 
> 
> 
> ’twas N2
> I mistyped
Click to expand...

wait
nevermind
’twas indeed N3
I’m confused
too many nights


----------



## Trebek

important question for mewt/rari

are you neighbor buddies again today


----------



## kyeugh

rari_teh said:


> kyeugh said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mist1422 said:
> 
> 
> 
> I mean
> who roleblocks skylar n3, wasn’t she solidly in the PoE at that time?
> 
> 
> 
> rari would, because i fullclaimed to them when they neighborized me, and they predicted that i would use my power to revive ils.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> you could’ve linked to the post where I actually dogwhistled you to revive him tbh
> which was, for context, after you were allegedly roleblocked and before you appeared inthread
Click to expand...

 did not notice that!  i am infamously immune to the snakewhistle tbh!  i'm unclear on what the takeaway is supposed to be from it anyway, though; if you're mafia it's just posturing for plausible deniability anyway, baiting to double check that i'd used up my power already.


----------



## mewtini

Trebek said:


> important question for mewt/rari
> 
> are you neighbor buddies again today


yes!


----------



## mewtini

i will catch up eventually tbh sorry.


----------



## kyeugh

what really
why tbh


----------



## kyeugh

rari_teh said:


> Mist1422 said:
> 
> 
> 
> I was actually almost entirely sure mewtini was going to die so that comes as a bit of a shock to me tbh
> 
> 
> 
> fwiw i thought that too
Click to expand...


----------



## Trebek

mewtini said:


> Trebek said:
> 
> 
> 
> important question for mewt/rari
> 
> are you neighbor buddies again today
> 
> 
> 
> yes!
Click to expand...

cool

or should i say

*kyeugh*-ll


----------



## mewtini

kyeugh said:


> what really
> why tbh


why not tbh
(the legit answer is that having a mason has been sanity-saving and that i think that we’re both just comfy with being each others’ sounding boards, as opposed to earlier on when we were trying to use it to build a towncore to uh ... some avail)


----------



## mewtini

kyeugh said:


> i am infamously immune to the snakewhistle tbh!


lmfao ...


----------



## kyeugh

mewtini said:


> kyeugh said:
> 
> 
> 
> what really
> why tbh
> 
> 
> 
> why not tbh
> (the legit answer is that having a mason has been sanity-saving and that i think that we’re both just comfy with being each others’ sounding boards, as opposed to earlier on when we were trying to use it to build a towncore to uh ... some avail)
Click to expand...

because they said they were almost certain you were going to die


----------



## mewtini

Trebek said:


> mewtini said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Trebek said:
> 
> 
> 
> important question for mewt/rari
> 
> are you neighbor buddies again today
> 
> 
> 
> yes!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> cool
> 
> or should i say
> 
> *kyeugh*-ll
Click to expand...

idk if this is weird to ask but was my/rari’s reply related to your vote fsr?


----------



## mewtini

kyeugh said:


> mewtini said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> kyeugh said:
> 
> 
> 
> what really
> why tbh
> 
> 
> 
> why not tbh
> (the legit answer is that having a mason has been sanity-saving and that i think that we’re both just comfy with being each others’ sounding boards, as opposed to earlier on when we were trying to use it to build a towncore to uh ... some avail)
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> because they said they were almost certain you were going to die
Click to expand...

they said as much to me in our thread too tbh


----------



## rari_teh

kyeugh said:


> what really
> why tbh





kyeugh said:


> rari_teh said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mist1422 said:
> 
> 
> 
> I was actually almost entirely sure mewtini was going to die so that comes as a bit of a shock to me tbh
> 
> 
> 
> fwiw i thought that too
> 
> Click to expand...
Click to expand...

you are absolutely right, it was a nigh irrational decision. i knew i was probably going to have no neighbour today, but frankly, what would be the point anymore. that chat is being the place i have to loosen the pressure and analyze things with a trustworthy company, and sometimes just… chat. i don’t think i would be able to chill half as much if i picked anyone else alive really, especially with the “one wolf in you/me” climate that is building up
so i figured, if i'm wrong, the chat will live. if i'm right… welp, what's the point anyway


----------



## Trebek

mewtini said:


> Trebek said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> mewtini said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Trebek said:
> 
> 
> 
> important question for mewt/rari
> 
> are you neighbor buddies again today
> 
> 
> 
> yes!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> cool
> 
> or should i say
> 
> *kyeugh*-ll
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> idk if this is weird to ask but was my/rari’s reply related to your vote fsr?
Click to expand...

i was likely to vote skylar anyways, but this cemented it. in a world where the wagons are pretty blatantly rari vs. skylar, i don’t see the world in which w!rari targets mewt for the third day in a row


----------



## kyeugh

Trebek said:


> i don’t see the world in which w!rari targets mewt for the third day in a row


why not


----------



## mewtini

Trebek said:


> mewtini said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Trebek said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> mewtini said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Trebek said:
> 
> 
> 
> important question for mewt/rari
> 
> are you neighbor buddies again today
> 
> 
> 
> yes!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> cool
> 
> or should i say
> 
> *kyeugh*-ll
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> idk if this is weird to ask but was my/rari’s reply related to your vote fsr?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> i was likely to vote skylar anyways, but this cemented it. in a world where the wagons are pretty blatantly rari vs. skylar, i don’t see the world in which w!rari targets mewt for the third day in a row
Click to expand...

i understand what skylar is saying about rari targeting me being kind of silly, i guess it’s possible w!rari just wants to keep her Main Defender alive so idk if it’s foolproof to think this way but yeah


----------



## Trebek

kyeugh said:


> Trebek said:
> 
> 
> 
> i don’t see the world in which w!rari targets mewt for the third day in a row
> 
> 
> 
> why not
Click to expand...

w!raris job in this scenario is to convince as many townies to misvote as possible (as an extra addendum, in the AU where only 3 mafia are alive rn, just one misvote wouldn’t cut it), so why continue to target someone you already have pocketed in a life or death scenario


----------



## Trebek

mewtini said:


> Trebek said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> mewtini said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Trebek said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> mewtini said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Trebek said:
> 
> 
> 
> important question for mewt/rari
> 
> are you neighbor buddies again today
> 
> 
> 
> yes!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> cool
> 
> or should i say
> 
> *kyeugh*-ll
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> idk if this is weird to ask but was my/rari’s reply related to your vote fsr?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> i was likely to vote skylar anyways, but this cemented it. in a world where the wagons are pretty blatantly rari vs. skylar, i don’t see the world in which w!rari targets mewt for the third day in a row
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> i understand what skylar is saying about rari targeting me being kind of silly, i guess it’s possible w!rari just wants to keep her Main Defender alive so idk if it’s foolproof to think this way but yeah
Click to expand...

it might not be foolproof, but it’s the scenario that i think is more likely to be true


----------



## kyeugh

Trebek said:


> kyeugh said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Trebek said:
> 
> 
> 
> i don’t see the world in which w!rari targets mewt for the third day in a row
> 
> 
> 
> why not
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> w!raris job in this scenario is to convince as many townies to misvote as possible (as an extra addendum, in the AU where only 3 mafia are alive rn, just one misvote wouldn’t cut it), so why continue to target someone you already have pocketed in a life or death scenario
Click to expand...

w!rari only has to convince a single townie to misvote right now, i don't see why they wouldn't choose mewt there?


----------



## Trebek

mewtini said:


> Trebek said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> mewtini said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Trebek said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> mewtini said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Trebek said:
> 
> 
> 
> important question for mewt/rari
> 
> are you neighbor buddies again today
> 
> 
> 
> yes!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> cool
> 
> or should i say
> 
> *kyeugh*-ll
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> idk if this is weird to ask but was my/rari’s reply related to your vote fsr?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> i was likely to vote skylar anyways, but this cemented it. in a world where the wagons are pretty blatantly rari vs. skylar, i don’t see the world in which w!rari targets mewt for the third day in a row
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> i understand what skylar is saying about rari targeting me being kind of silly, i guess it’s possible w!rari just wants to keep her Main Defender alive so idk if it’s foolproof to think this way but yeah
Click to expand...

rari can do this without neighborizing you again tho. if you weren’t neighbors today and rari said “it’s bc i thought u were gonna die ”, would you townread her any less?


----------



## Trebek

kyeugh said:


> Trebek said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> kyeugh said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Trebek said:
> 
> 
> 
> i don’t see the world in which w!rari targets mewt for the third day in a row
> 
> 
> 
> why not
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> w!raris job in this scenario is to convince as many townies to misvote as possible (as an extra addendum, in the AU where only 3 mafia are alive rn, just one misvote wouldn’t cut it), so why continue to target someone you already have pocketed in a life or death scenario
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> w!rari only has to convince a single townie to misvote right now, i don't see why they wouldn't choose mewt there?
Click to expand...

 we don’t know if there are 3 or 4 mafia currently alive, and the fact that some people are blatantly ignoring that this alternate universe exists is sorta pinging me tbh


----------



## rari_teh

kyeugh said:


> Trebek said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> kyeugh said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Trebek said:
> 
> 
> 
> i don’t see the world in which w!rari targets mewt for the third day in a row
> 
> 
> 
> why not
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> w!raris job in this scenario is to convince as many townies to misvote as possible (as an extra addendum, in the AU where only 3 mafia are alive rn, just one misvote wouldn’t cut it), so why continue to target someone you already have pocketed in a life or death scenario
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> w!rari only has to convince a single townie to misvote right now, i don't see why they wouldn't choose mewt there?
Click to expand...

i digress
even if we were at lylo, it would get pretty fucking obvious at the moment when w!me’s scumbuddies piled on you on EoD


----------



## Trebek

kyeugh said:


> Trebek said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> kyeugh said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Trebek said:
> 
> 
> 
> i don’t see the world in which w!rari targets mewt for the third day in a row
> 
> 
> 
> why not
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> w!raris job in this scenario is to convince as many townies to misvote as possible (as an extra addendum, in the AU where only 3 mafia are alive rn, just one misvote wouldn’t cut it), so why continue to target someone you already have pocketed in a life or death scenario
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> w!rari only has to convince a single townie to misvote right now, i don't see why they wouldn't choose mewt there?
Click to expand...

my main point was that w!rari has _already _succeeded on the mewt front, so i don’t vibe with a retarget


----------



## kyeugh

rari_teh said:


> kyeugh said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Trebek said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> kyeugh said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Trebek said:
> 
> 
> 
> i don’t see the world in which w!rari targets mewt for the third day in a row
> 
> 
> 
> why not
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> w!raris job in this scenario is to convince as many townies to misvote as possible (as an extra addendum, in the AU where only 3 mafia are alive rn, just one misvote wouldn’t cut it), so why continue to target someone you already have pocketed in a life or death scenario
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> w!rari only has to convince a single townie to misvote right now, i don't see why they wouldn't choose mewt there?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> i digress
> even if we were at lylo, it would get pretty fucking obvious at the moment when w!me’s scumbuddies piled on you on EoD
Click to expand...

indeed, you will probably not have to even do that
but it's still true that it's technically all you _must_ do


----------



## Trebek

like why wouldn’t w!rari target me? we have had pretty similar thought processes the last few days, and that would’ve driven the nail in the coffin. rari choosing to target mewt is irrational in the _exact_ ways that i would expect from v!rari


----------



## kyeugh

because you're both mafia tbh


----------



## Trebek

kyeugh said:


> because you're both mafia tbh


i mean, that very well could be how other people see it, but that's not going to stop me from putting my thoughts out in chat, because i do genuinely believe rari is town


----------



## Trebek

Trebek said:


> kyeugh said:
> 
> 
> 
> because you're both mafia tbh
> 
> 
> 
> i mean, that very well could be how other people see it, but that's not going to stop me from putting my thoughts out in chat, because i do genuinely believe rari is town
Click to expand...

even in the hypothetical world where i dont know my own alignment, i put rari as more likely to be town than myself


----------



## kyeugh

you may do so, but i'm not really trying to convince you of anything because you're a wolf defending your partner and there is no way your vote moves off me anyway
i'm just pointing out how this thinking doesn't and shouldn't hold for anyone else reading it because they're not you, even if it's easy to read it and nod along because they agree with the argument it's supporting
if the actual townies remaining don't even pay consideration to the world where i'm telling the truth and grapple with the things i'm saying rather than trying to ad hoc rationalize how rari is telling the truth here, this day is a waste of time and we've already lost


----------



## rari_teh

i don’t think w!trebek would go this out to defend his partner tbh
but then again it’s me, his alleged scumbuddy who’s saying this, so read this as you want tbh


----------



## Trebek

i'm not against different lines of thought / people laying out opposing opinions in thread btw, if thats how this is coming across

but i would rather have two differing opinions that are both fleshed out, rather than

person A: opinion
person B: nah cuz ur wolf lol

which is sort of how its felt for a while now?


----------



## kyeugh

no, it's more that the things you're saying literally_ only_ make sense from your pov, and that's happened a few times. which i'm trying to call attention to because you're not even in the clear and it's something people should be thinking more deeply about for reasons other than the ones you are stating, since they don't apply to anyone else


----------



## Trebek

i... don't get how my opinions only make sense from my pov?


----------



## kyeugh

in other words i’m not arguing with you or trying to change your mind because you and i both know that isn’t going to happen, i’m just qualifying your posts for other people’s consideration 


Trebek said:


> i... don't get how my opinions only make sense from my pov?


the answer to “why doesn’t rari target me?” is just as easily “because you’re partners” to everyone except you and rari


----------



## rari_teh

Trebek said:


> i... don't get how my opinions only make sense from my pov?


fwiw i’d say that if there’s somebody here whose reads only make sense from their own pov that person is kyeugh tbh
her entire case on “rari is mafia” hangs on her claim that she was a one-shot necro who was blocked and the only person who could ever think of blocking her would be w!me
which, frankly


----------



## kyeugh

rari_teh said:


> Trebek said:
> 
> 
> 
> i... don't get how my opinions only make sense from my pov?
> 
> 
> 
> fwiw i’d say that if there’s somebody here whose reads only make sense from their own pov that person is kyeugh tbh
> her entire case on “rari is mafia” hangs on her claim that she was a one-shot necro who was blocked and the only person who could ever think of blocking her would be w!me
> which, frankly
Click to expand...

 i think there's a pretty big difference here.  maybe it's semantics, but the wagons here are me and you, and it's the job of everyone else to figure out what they think about that and why.  people can only use the information they know and the feelings they have to reach those conclusions, but when you use information only you know, you can't reach a conclusion that's extensible to anyone else.  that's the point i'm making.  it's one thing to explain your reasoning for your own vote (logically sound), but another to to make a persuasive case to others based on information none of them have (logically fallacious), which is the distinction i'm trying to draw explicitly when i engage with his posts, because the lines can become blurred when you're not thinking about it too much.  people can only use their own judgement, and trebek's self-clear (and any reasoning extending from it) should not factor into that judgement for anyone except himself.  that's not the same as me offering my information, because the wagon is _about_ me, and that information is necessary for everyone to consider their positions.


----------



## kyeugh

@mewtini, i'm curious what you think the scumteam is.


----------



## Trebek

kyeugh said:


> rari_teh said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Trebek said:
> 
> 
> 
> i... don't get how my opinions only make sense from my pov?
> 
> 
> 
> fwiw i’d say that if there’s somebody here whose reads only make sense from their own pov that person is kyeugh tbh
> her entire case on “rari is mafia” hangs on her claim that she was a one-shot necro who was blocked and the only person who could ever think of blocking her would be w!me
> which, frankly
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> i think there's a pretty big difference here.  maybe it's semantics, but the wagons here are me and you, and it's the job of everyone else to figure out what they think about that and why.  people can only use the information they know and the feelings they have to reach those conclusions, but when you use information only you know, you can't reach a conclusion that's extensible to anyone else.  that's the point i'm making.  it's one thing to explain your reasoning for your own vote (logically sound), but another to to make a persuasive case to others based on information none of them have (logically fallacious), which is the distinction i'm trying to draw explicitly when i engage with his posts, because the lines can become blurred when you're not thinking about it too much.  people can only use their own judgement, and trebek's self-clear (and any reasoning extending from it) should not factor into that judgement for anyone except himself.  that's not the same as me offering my information, because the wagon is _about_ me, and that information is necessary for everyone to consider their positions.
Click to expand...

me saying my opinion was never to directly influence people's votes. what i am trying to say is "this is my opinion. if you entertain the train of thought where i am town, then maybe you can see where i am coming from. make whatever decisions you want based off of that."

and it feels weird to be told that the intention of my posts is something other than what i'm intending with them.


----------



## kyeugh

Trebek said:


> kyeugh said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rari_teh said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Trebek said:
> 
> 
> 
> i... don't get how my opinions only make sense from my pov?
> 
> 
> 
> fwiw i’d say that if there’s somebody here whose reads only make sense from their own pov that person is kyeugh tbh
> her entire case on “rari is mafia” hangs on her claim that she was a one-shot necro who was blocked and the only person who could ever think of blocking her would be w!me
> which, frankly
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> i think there's a pretty big difference here.  maybe it's semantics, but the wagons here are me and you, and it's the job of everyone else to figure out what they think about that and why.  people can only use the information they know and the feelings they have to reach those conclusions, but when you use information only you know, you can't reach a conclusion that's extensible to anyone else.  that's the point i'm making.  it's one thing to explain your reasoning for your own vote (logically sound), but another to to make a persuasive case to others based on information none of them have (logically fallacious), which is the distinction i'm trying to draw explicitly when i engage with his posts, because the lines can become blurred when you're not thinking about it too much.  people can only use their own judgement, and trebek's self-clear (and any reasoning extending from it) should not factor into that judgement for anyone except himself.  that's not the same as me offering my information, because the wagon is _about_ me, and that information is necessary for everyone to consider their positions.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> me saying my opinion was never to directly influence people's votes. what i am trying to say is "this is my opinion. if you entertain the train of thought where i am town, then maybe you can see where i am coming from. make whatever decisions you want based off of that."
> 
> and it feels weird to be told that the intention of my posts is something other than what i'm intending with them.
Click to expand...

i'm not telling you what your intentions are; i've said several times now that i understand why _you_'re making your posts, and i'm just outlining clearly that the reasoning shouldn't work to anyone else reading it, because it's easy to nod along with something making an argument you already agree with and feel more convicted as a result even though logically it shouldn't have that effect.  which, of _course_ i'll want to do that, because from my pov everyone is nodding along with you even though i know for a fact you're leading them astray. if you're going to keep suggesting that's wolfy even though i've spelled this out in excruciating detail three times now, that's fine, but i'm not going to stop how i'm posting and i'm not going to explain it anymore.


----------



## rari_teh

kyeugh said:


> rari_teh said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Trebek said:
> 
> 
> 
> i... don't get how my opinions only make sense from my pov?
> 
> 
> 
> fwiw i’d say that if there’s somebody here whose reads only make sense from their own pov that person is kyeugh tbh
> her entire case on “rari is mafia” hangs on her claim that she was a one-shot necro who was blocked and the only person who could ever think of blocking her would be w!me
> which, frankly
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> i think there's a pretty big difference here.  maybe it's semantics, but the wagons here are me and you, and it's the job of everyone else to figure out what they think about that and why.  people can only use the information they know and the feelings they have to reach those conclusions, but when you use information only you know, you can't reach a conclusion that's extensible to anyone else.  that's the point i'm making.  it's one thing to explain your reasoning for your own vote (logically sound), but another to to make a persuasive case to others based on information none of them have (logically fallacious), which is the distinction i'm trying to draw explicitly when i engage with his posts, because the lines can become blurred when you're not thinking about it too much.  people can only use their own judgement, and trebek's self-clear (and any reasoning extending from it) should not factor into that judgement for anyone except himself.  that's not the same as me offering my information, because the wagon is _about_ me, and that information is necessary for everyone to consider their positions.
Click to expand...

so you’re saying that the difference is that trebek did not vote?


----------



## kyeugh

rari_teh said:


> kyeugh said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rari_teh said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Trebek said:
> 
> 
> 
> i... don't get how my opinions only make sense from my pov?
> 
> 
> 
> fwiw i’d say that if there’s somebody here whose reads only make sense from their own pov that person is kyeugh tbh
> her entire case on “rari is mafia” hangs on her claim that she was a one-shot necro who was blocked and the only person who could ever think of blocking her would be w!me
> which, frankly
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> i think there's a pretty big difference here.  maybe it's semantics, but the wagons here are me and you, and it's the job of everyone else to figure out what they think about that and why.  people can only use the information they know and the feelings they have to reach those conclusions, but when you use information only you know, you can't reach a conclusion that's extensible to anyone else.  that's the point i'm making.  it's one thing to explain your reasoning for your own vote (logically sound), but another to to make a persuasive case to others based on information none of them have (logically fallacious), which is the distinction i'm trying to draw explicitly when i engage with his posts, because the lines can become blurred when you're not thinking about it too much.  people can only use their own judgement, and trebek's self-clear (and any reasoning extending from it) should not factor into that judgement for anyone except himself.  that's not the same as me offering my information, because the wagon is _about_ me, and that information is necessary for everyone to consider their positions.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> so you’re saying that the difference is that trebek did not vote?
Click to expand...

not even close. ?_?


----------



## Trebek

kyeugh said:


> Trebek said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> kyeugh said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rari_teh said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Trebek said:
> 
> 
> 
> i... don't get how my opinions only make sense from my pov?
> 
> 
> 
> fwiw i’d say that if there’s somebody here whose reads only make sense from their own pov that person is kyeugh tbh
> her entire case on “rari is mafia” hangs on her claim that she was a one-shot necro who was blocked and the only person who could ever think of blocking her would be w!me
> which, frankly
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> i think there's a pretty big difference here.  maybe it's semantics, but the wagons here are me and you, and it's the job of everyone else to figure out what they think about that and why.  people can only use the information they know and the feelings they have to reach those conclusions, but when you use information only you know, you can't reach a conclusion that's extensible to anyone else.  that's the point i'm making.  it's one thing to explain your reasoning for your own vote (logically sound), but another to to make a persuasive case to others based on information none of them have (logically fallacious), which is the distinction i'm trying to draw explicitly when i engage with his posts, because the lines can become blurred when you're not thinking about it too much.  people can only use their own judgement, and trebek's self-clear (and any reasoning extending from it) should not factor into that judgement for anyone except himself.  that's not the same as me offering my information, because the wagon is _about_ me, and that information is necessary for everyone to consider their positions.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> me saying my opinion was never to directly influence people's votes. what i am trying to say is "this is my opinion. if you entertain the train of thought where i am town, then maybe you can see where i am coming from. make whatever decisions you want based off of that."
> 
> and it feels weird to be told that the intention of my posts is something other than what i'm intending with them.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> i'm not telling you what your intentions are; i've said several times now that i understand why _you_'re making your posts, and i'm just outlining clearly that the reasoning shouldn't work to anyone else reading it, because it's easy to nod along with something making an argument you already agree with and feel more convicted as a result even though logically it shouldn't have that effect.  which, of _course_ i'll want to do that, because from my pov everyone is nodding along with you even though i know for a fact you're leading them astray. if you're going to keep suggesting that's wolfy even though i've spelled this out in excruciating detail three times now, that's fine, but i'm not going to stop how i'm posting and i'm not going to explain it anymore.
Click to expand...

the fact that we keep talking in circles is i think indicative of the fact that you don't actually understand why i'm making my posts


----------



## kyeugh

Trebek said:


> kyeugh said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Trebek said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> kyeugh said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rari_teh said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Trebek said:
> 
> 
> 
> i... don't get how my opinions only make sense from my pov?
> 
> 
> 
> fwiw i’d say that if there’s somebody here whose reads only make sense from their own pov that person is kyeugh tbh
> her entire case on “rari is mafia” hangs on her claim that she was a one-shot necro who was blocked and the only person who could ever think of blocking her would be w!me
> which, frankly
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> i think there's a pretty big difference here.  maybe it's semantics, but the wagons here are me and you, and it's the job of everyone else to figure out what they think about that and why.  people can only use the information they know and the feelings they have to reach those conclusions, but when you use information only you know, you can't reach a conclusion that's extensible to anyone else.  that's the point i'm making.  it's one thing to explain your reasoning for your own vote (logically sound), but another to to make a persuasive case to others based on information none of them have (logically fallacious), which is the distinction i'm trying to draw explicitly when i engage with his posts, because the lines can become blurred when you're not thinking about it too much.  people can only use their own judgement, and trebek's self-clear (and any reasoning extending from it) should not factor into that judgement for anyone except himself.  that's not the same as me offering my information, because the wagon is _about_ me, and that information is necessary for everyone to consider their positions.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> me saying my opinion was never to directly influence people's votes. what i am trying to say is "this is my opinion. if you entertain the train of thought where i am town, then maybe you can see where i am coming from. make whatever decisions you want based off of that."
> 
> and it feels weird to be told that the intention of my posts is something other than what i'm intending with them.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> i'm not telling you what your intentions are; i've said several times now that i understand why _you_'re making your posts, and i'm just outlining clearly that the reasoning shouldn't work to anyone else reading it, because it's easy to nod along with something making an argument you already agree with and feel more convicted as a result even though logically it shouldn't have that effect.  which, of _course_ i'll want to do that, because from my pov everyone is nodding along with you even though i know for a fact you're leading them astray. if you're going to keep suggesting that's wolfy even though i've spelled this out in excruciating detail three times now, that's fine, but i'm not going to stop how i'm posting and i'm not going to explain it anymore.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> the fact that we keep talking in circles is i think indicative of the fact that you don't actually understand why i'm making my posts
Click to expand...

we keep talking in circles because i keep doing the thing i just wrote a novel about up there and you keep having the exact same reaction every time.

again, sorry if this seems snippy, it’s just really exasperating being the only remaining person in the game that’s not either a wolf or being hopelessly misled by wolves, especially when it’s going to cost the game and is so, so clear from my perspective. but i do applaud the wolves for strong-arming the thread into this position tbh. it’s definitely something, the way that by its nature this strategy pretty much culminates in me and me alone feeling like i’m going crazy, which is exactly why it works. if you guys win you deserve it but you should still feel guilty


----------



## rari_teh

kyeugh said:


> rari_teh said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> kyeugh said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rari_teh said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Trebek said:
> 
> 
> 
> i... don't get how my opinions only make sense from my pov?
> 
> 
> 
> fwiw i’d say that if there’s somebody here whose reads only make sense from their own pov that person is kyeugh tbh
> her entire case on “rari is mafia” hangs on her claim that she was a one-shot necro who was blocked and the only person who could ever think of blocking her would be w!me
> which, frankly
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> i think there's a pretty big difference here.  maybe it's semantics, but the wagons here are me and you, and it's the job of everyone else to figure out what they think about that and why.  people can only use the information they know and the feelings they have to reach those conclusions, but when you use information only you know, you can't reach a conclusion that's extensible to anyone else.  that's the point i'm making.  it's one thing to explain your reasoning for your own vote (logically sound), but another to to make a persuasive case to others based on information none of them have (logically fallacious), which is the distinction i'm trying to draw explicitly when i engage with his posts, because the lines can become blurred when you're not thinking about it too much.  people can only use their own judgement, and trebek's self-clear (and any reasoning extending from it) should not factor into that judgement for anyone except himself.  that's not the same as me offering my information, because the wagon is _about_ me, and that information is necessary for everyone to consider their positions.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> so you’re saying that the difference is that trebek did not vote?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> not even close. ?_?
Click to expand...

i legitimately do not understand what you’re saying the difference is tbh. idk whether i’m being thickskulled or you’re trying to gaslight me, but this is what i’m understanding of what you say:

Trebek’s views hang on him being town. Trebek gives his views. Those should only work under his POV and be pretty much discarded.
Your views hang on you being town. You give your views and lay down your vote. Those should be considered seriously by everybody, despite hanging on the fact that only you can confirm what you are alleging.
which, in my eyes, is a complete double standard.


----------



## kyeugh

those eyebrows really blend into the skin tone so it just looks like it’s frowning.


----------



## kyeugh

rari_teh said:


> kyeugh said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rari_teh said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> kyeugh said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rari_teh said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Trebek said:
> 
> 
> 
> i... don't get how my opinions only make sense from my pov?
> 
> 
> 
> fwiw i’d say that if there’s somebody here whose reads only make sense from their own pov that person is kyeugh tbh
> her entire case on “rari is mafia” hangs on her claim that she was a one-shot necro who was blocked and the only person who could ever think of blocking her would be w!me
> which, frankly
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> i think there's a pretty big difference here.  maybe it's semantics, but the wagons here are me and you, and it's the job of everyone else to figure out what they think about that and why.  people can only use the information they know and the feelings they have to reach those conclusions, but when you use information only you know, you can't reach a conclusion that's extensible to anyone else.  that's the point i'm making.  it's one thing to explain your reasoning for your own vote (logically sound), but another to to make a persuasive case to others based on information none of them have (logically fallacious), which is the distinction i'm trying to draw explicitly when i engage with his posts, because the lines can become blurred when you're not thinking about it too much.  people can only use their own judgement, and trebek's self-clear (and any reasoning extending from it) should not factor into that judgement for anyone except himself.  that's not the same as me offering my information, because the wagon is _about_ me, and that information is necessary for everyone to consider their positions.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> so you’re saying that the difference is that trebek did not vote?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> not even close. ?_?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> i legitimately do not understand what you’re saying the difference is tbh. idk whether i’m being thickskulled or you’re trying to gaslight me, but this is what i’m understanding of what you say:
> 
> Trebek’s views hang on him being town. Trebek gives his views. Those should only work under his POV and be pretty much discarded.
> Your views hang on you being town. You give your views and lay down your vote. Those should be considered seriously by everybody, despite hanging on the fact that only you can confirm what you are alleging.
> which, in my eyes, is a complete double standard.
Click to expand...

 i really don’t want to talk about this anymore man. it’s not a double standard if you understanding what i’m actually saying but this is a pointless and really frustrating line of discussion. i promise i’m not gaslighting you though.


----------



## kyeugh

if butterfree/mp7 are actually mafia i’m going to rope.


----------



## Trebek

i would be highly interested in an external point of view on these interactions (and also the altercation at the beginning of yesterDay), because i think both sides feel like they're being gaslighted in one way or another


----------



## rari_teh

Trebek said:


> i would be highly interested in an external point of view on these interactions (and also the altercation at the beginning of yesterDay), because i think both sides feel like they're being gaslighted in one way or another


i definitely second this.


----------



## qenya

Trebek said:


> i would be highly interested in an external point of view on these interactions (and also the altercation at the beginning of yesterDay), because i think both sides feel like they're being gaslighted in one way or another


I mean I'm still here and reading in more or less real time but I'm just as torn as the rest of the peanut gallery

I can see and understand both Trebek's and kyeugh's reasoning for believing each other to be mafia, but unfortunately both are predicated on their own knowledge, which each of them could be lying about

for whichever of them is not mafia, I can totally see how that would feel really alienating! you know the other one is lying but you can't prove it, or prove that you're not lying yourself

but fuck if I know how to resolve it


----------



## qenya

I'm sorry, that was basically the least helpful reply imaginable, haha


----------



## mewtini

still can’t rly be here but in re: the skylar/trebek thing i think it’s kind of ??? to like ... drive home the point that non-trebek players can’t clear him just because he can/will clear himself. i don’t know if it’s more nuanced than that in reality but that is all i’ve managed to glean, and i don’t say that at all sarcastically 

to which i will reply that i independently TR him and am not sheeping his self-clear, hahaha


----------



## Trebek

kokorico said:


> I'm sorry, that was basically the least helpful reply imaginable, haha


dont be sorry! im just glad other people are here :^)


----------



## Trebek

mewtini said:


> still can’t rly be here but in re: the skylar/trebek thing i think it’s kind of ??? to like ... drive home the point that non-trebek players can’t clear him just because he can/will clear himself. i don’t know if it’s more nuanced than that in reality but that is all i’ve managed to glean, and i don’t say that at all sarcastically
> 
> to which i will reply that i independently TR him and am not sheeping his self-clear, hahaha


i think this is what was stressing me out, but i didnt know how to articulate it. I obviously cant speak to skylar's mindset when talking about this but the way her posts came across really felt like they were just ignoring the fact that people can and have assembled independent reads of us


----------



## kyeugh

tbh i hate to be that guy but i’m going through it a bit right now and at this point this game is pretty much just a net stressor and doesn’t appear to be going anywhere soon, and the fact that i’m already not 100% is just compounding my anxiety about this game which just makes my posting worse which compounds my anxiety ad infinitum. i thought i was going to have the energy to advocate for myself for one last Day but it’s only been a few hours and i already don’t really feel like i have it in me anymore.

so i’m just gonna chalk this up to an L tbh, if we win  at this point it’s obviously not going to be because of anything i say anyway. it was a lot of fun hanging out with y’all the first couple days! gl gl. this post is not intended to guilt anyone btw, and sincerely gj to the mafia whoever you are. it’s been fun, i just want to duck out because it’s beginning not to be and i’d rather quit while i’m ahead and focus on some other stuff rather than grow to resent this experience tbh. this is not a ragequit btw


----------



## qenya

oh, actually, maybe I do have something to add

when kyeugh et al were arguing yesterDay about whether she should attempt to resubmit her action, she said this:


kyeugh said:


> speaking of which: [Jack] just replied that my power was indeed consumed, and suggested that there’s some precedent for that ruling in the game already. so uh. that is great tbh


at the time I was thinking that it seemed a bit odd for a oneshot role to be rendered _completely ineffective_ by a single lucky choice from a roleblocker. I'll grant you it may just be differences in meta, but where at my home forum it's never been ruled to work that way because it really sucks for the person who got blocked. they had their one chance to shine and it got fucked up

but now that all the PRs are accounted for... what could that "precedent" possibly have been? given that kyeugh is the only person so far to claim a oneshot role of any sort? 

I guess this is pretty weak but it's all I've got. I have been very clear all game that my reads are way worse than my mech game so idk I'm just trying to help where I can


----------



## qenya

christ, one hell of a thing to be ninja'd by

sorry kyeugh


----------



## mewtini

skylar ily queen :(


----------



## Trebek

kokorico said:


> oh, actually, maybe I do have something to add
> 
> when kyeugh et al were arguing yesterDay about whether she should attempt to resubmit her action, she said this:
> 
> 
> kyeugh said:
> 
> 
> 
> speaking of which: [Jack] just replied that my power was indeed consumed, and suggested that there’s some precedent for that ruling in the game already. so uh. that is great tbh
> 
> 
> 
> at the time I was thinking that it seemed a bit odd for a oneshot role to be rendered _completely ineffective_ by a single lucky choice from a roleblocker. I'll grant you it may just be differences in meta, but where at my home forum it's never been ruled to work that way because it really sucks for the person who got blocked. they had their one chance to shine and it got fucked up
> 
> but now that all the PRs are accounted for... what could that "precedent" possibly have been? given that kyeugh is the only person so far to claim a oneshot role of any sort?
> 
> I guess this is pretty weak but it's all I've got. I have been very clear all game that my reads are way worse than my mech game so idk I'm just trying to help where I can
Click to expand...

my guess is that the precedent was more aimed at general mafia games, not this one in particular


----------



## Butterfree

I think what kyeugh is saying is that her presenting her opinion is obviously just her own POV because she's one of the wagons in question, while she wants to emphasize that anyone else's opinion may also be coming from a wolf?

Does anyone have a handy list of all the claims that have been made? I'm still inclined to think it's kyeugh since yesterday, especially with Keldeo being mafia, but I've yet to properly put together what I think the full team is.


----------



## Butterfree

Either way, sorry you're feeling that way, Skylar, I hope you feel better if you step away for a bit. :c


----------



## mewtini

Butterfree said:


> Does anyone have a handy list of all the claims that have been made?


someone else might have a better list but here is mine from memory:

- mewtini (copclear + JoaT)
- kyeugh (old deuteronomy, one-shot necromancer)
- rari (munkustrap, neighborizer)
- butterfree (fishing brother)
- mp7 (fishing brother)
- bluwiikoon (cassandra, VT)
- mist (forgot the cat, VT)
- trebek (forgot the cat, VT)
- koko (maitre d', VT)


----------



## mewtini

oh forgot to add 'rolecopped' to bfree.


----------



## mewtini

..... oops and i'm mistoffelees


----------



## Butterfree

What about the dead people?


----------



## mewtini

ok i'm going to stop posting soon but i'll go back over happenings at some point tonight, didn't get a chance to earlier because i was on mobile all day. throwing my hat in the *kyeugh* ring in the meantime


----------



## Novae

mewtini said:


> ..... oops and i'm mistoffelees


[insert mist pun here]


----------



## mewtini

Butterfree said:


> What about the dead people?


oh, sorry!

- rnp (jailer)
- VM (jennyanydots, vig)
- herbe (victoria, rolecop)
- emmy (cop)
- ultracool (?)
- keldeo (?)
- myuma (?)
- tofu (lynchproof)
- ILS (doctor, acc. to herbe)
- stryke (VT)
- mawile (?)
- seshas (? but i tracked her n0 and got no result)


----------



## Novae

Butterfree said:


> What about the dead people?


VM vig, Tofu yeetproof [potential GF], RNP jailer, emmy cop, herbe rolecop, ILS doc via herbe result


----------



## mewtini

ftr i think that, if there is a godfather, it's equally likely to be myuma tbh? idk. just inclined to think so since VM was town. i agree that maybe that's not the most productive train of thought to go with but like ... thinking of a 3-person scumteam feels far different to me than thinking of a 4-person scumteam :/ mostly because i can neatly throw 3 people from my personal list into a wolfsquad -


----------



## mewtini

not that we should be split down the 3 or 4-road by any means, that was confusing. just voicing my own weirdness about the topic


----------



## mewtini

granted, in the broader sense, i also feel like there must be a godfather in the game because the coexistence of rolecop and cop is really weird otherwise. i think


----------



## Novae

that's probably fair? but it doesn't confirm that a godfather would flip as not scum or even if it does that it's not still alive

I think we should treat this as if there are 4 scum alive rn


----------



## Trebek

yeah, i think im just confbiased bc my PoE makes much more sense if 3 mafia are alive :p


----------



## rari_teh

me as well tbh
i did a myuma ISO and, while some things are  in hindsight, it would make no sense for keldeo to bus the godfather out of nowhere


----------



## rari_teh

ok, the thread has been silent for a while, so lookatthisgraph.mp3



Spoiler: D1 vote history












Spoiler: D1 vote history (cropped to the beginning of the main wagons’ formation)












Spoiler: D2 vote history












Spoiler: D3 vote history












Spoiler: D4 vote history









i was going to say that one of those sharp rises on keldeo’s wagon was likely to be a bus, but then i looked into the vote history and i’m not that sure anymore tbh


----------



## Novae

I would say look into that huge rise of the RNP wagon because it might have been to save keldeo tbh


----------



## rari_teh

Mist1422 said:


> I would say look into that huge rise of the RNP wagon because it might have been to save keldeo tbh


good thought! i just checked and it was vm, qva, tofu, mewt, trebek and blu… given that most of those are conftown, i don’t think that was coördinated
i was also going to look at vm’s wagon’s genesis that day, but that one was, well, you and me :v


----------



## Trebek

Oh, someone was asking about cat names/roles earlier, i am Syllabub


----------



## Butterfree

Okay. Ten town power roles. The claimed power roles that we have are, in order of town confirmedness (from my POV):

- butterfree (fishing brother)
- mp7 (fishing brother)
- emmy (cop, flipped town)
- VM (jennyanydots, vig, flipped town)
- tofu (lynchproof, flipped town)
- rnp (jailer, flipped town)
- herbe (victoria, rolecop, flipped town)
- ILS (doctor, acc. to herbe, flipped town)
- mewtini (copclear + JoaT)
- rari (munkustrap, neighborizer)
- kyeugh (old deuteronomy, one-shot necromancer)

That's eleven people, so assuming the dead people who flipped town are genuinely town, at least one of rari and kyeugh _must_ be mafia.

The godfather speculation... leaves me kind of ehhh. Thing is, godfather who not only inspects but _flips_ as town strikes me as pretty weird? Outgroup mafia flipping town kind of makes sense; the mafia will have interacted with them as if they were town. But having a godfather ingroup mafia who flips town just kind of puts everything up in the air; suddenly we can't even do wagon analysis on apparent town wagons? It strikes me as confusing in an unfair way. The way I'd GM a godfather role, at least, would involve them appearing town _to a cop_, but still _flipping_ correctly. So mewtini could theoretically be a godfather, but again seems unlikely when she was also rolecopped as a JOAT; the godfatherness would have to be an invisible modifier on the JOAT role, and at that point the whole logic of cops and rolecops coexisting because of a godfather breaks down because the rolecop can't investigate them as a godfather either. So, I dunno, I'm inclined to assume everyone who flipped town is an actual townie, and mewtini is probably just a townie too.

Could rari and kyeugh _both_ be mafia, and the whole conflict between them wolf theater to ensure we clear rari after lynching kyeugh? Mmmm, feels like a stretch, but I guess I wouldn't entirely put it past this mafia? If they _are_ both mafia, then there was one more town power role in the unclaimed dead villagers, while otherwise they all happen to be vanilla town, which is a _little_ funny, but I guess we have some circumstantial evidence: mewtini's tracking result suggests Seshas had no night action; myuma didn't feel the need to claim when she had to leave when she was one of the leading wagons and wouldn't be back for EoD; Mawile we of course know nothing about but it doesn't feel too bad to assume _one_ dead villager simply happened to be a townie as opposed to three. There's no obvious town role we'd expect to be seeing in that list, either. So my working assumption will be they probably just were all VT and only one of rari and kyeugh is lying.

With 21 players and 6 mafia, there'd be five vanilla townies on top of the power roles and two vanilla mafia goons. We've got five VT claims (Bluwiikoon, Mist, Trebek, kokorico, and Stryke), but obviously, if the three dead unclaimed townies were all VT, that means three of them are actually mafia. Stryke is dead and confirmed townie, so effectively that means three out of Bluwii/Mist/Trebek/kokorico must be mafia. The one I'm most inclined to call town is probably Bluwii? Otherwise Keldeo's counterclaim was some real 4D chess to... make Bluwii look townier when Keldeo flipped? Actually that's not impossible and could be kind of clever, hrmm. But Bluwii's reaction there struck me as very genuine, and Bluwii's ISO again felt super towny to me even when I went into it suspicious, so I'm still disinclined.

_Technically_, if most of us accept the premise that there's one mafia in [rari, kyeugh] and three mafia in [Bluwii, Mist, Trebek, kokorico], we've got better chances lynching within the latter, if we think there's at all a significant chance we're all being bamboozled by rari. I still think I've found pretty significant evidence kyeugh is mafia, particularly since Keldeo is scum. But I haven't actually reread rari or any of the others so I'm left what-if-ing. Hrmmm. I would like to do more reading, but there's no way I'm going to manage to ISO everyone before the day ends.


----------



## rari_teh

btw i realized something the other night
if the fishing brothers are mafia like trebek was tinfoiling and the mafia wins at parity, we should *not* kill any of them, otherwise the mafia will have two shots and autowin the next Night
in other words, discussing their alignment is, in the situation we find ourselves in, kind of a moot point


----------



## Novae

Butterfree said:


> Could rari and kyeugh _both_ be mafia, and the whole conflict between them wolf theater to ensure we clear rari after lynching kyeugh?


I am strongly of the opinion that it's a no because I don't think rari could fake a neighbor chat with kyeugh to the extent they did


----------



## mewtini

fwiw the quotes i saw were like, directly quoted/'linked' from their pm (i imagine jack allowed that because people in the thread wouldn't know if i was lying about this or not?) but yeah


----------



## mewtini

i think rari/kyeugh are literally never mafia together given how she's talked about kyeugh to me


----------



## Novae

I mean

Claim-wise I’m leaning rari as town

But that kyeugh comic was incredibly towny


----------



## rari_teh

gentle reminder that there are only 24 hours until EoD
I would love to hear from @M Plus 7 given that he didn’t appear yesterDay and lots of things happened


----------



## JackPK

Reminder: The day phase will end in *24 hours*.

*Active votes*
rari_teh votes kyeugh (#4453)
kyeugh votes rari_teh (#4513)
Trebek votes kyeugh (#4524)
mewtini votes kyeugh (#4583)



Spoiler: Full vote history



Active votes bolded.

*rari_teh votes kyeugh (#4453)
kyeugh votes rari_teh (#4513)
Trebek votes kyeugh (#4524)
mewtini votes kyeugh (#4583)*


----------



## Novae

rari_teh said:


> gentle reminder that there are only 24 hours until EoD
> I would love to hear from @M Plus 7 given that he didn’t appear yesterDay and lots of things happened


(mp7 uses she/her btw)


----------



## rari_teh

sorry! thanks for correcting me, mist


----------



## mewtini

reading back on the day now


kyeugh said:


> @mewtini, i'm curious what you think the scumteam is.


um, right now i'm at you/mist/koko/blu. i guess if the fishing brothers are mafia then probably you/mist (swappable w koko)/fishing brothers but that doesn't really matter just yet tbh, i am probably just leaning towards the first


----------



## mewtini

Trebek said:


> rari can do this without neighborizing you again tho. if you weren’t neighbors today and rari said “it’s bc i thought u were gonna die ”, would you townread her any less?


oh def not. i understand skylar's argument too though and i think that the moment rari and i started using the mechanic to create a persistent mason chat, it stopped being super alignment-indicative (though i independently believe in her because 


Trebek said:


> we don’t know if there are 3 or 4 mafia currently alive, and the fact that some people are blatantly ignoring that this alternate universe exists is sorta pinging me tbh


i do not think this is pingworthy tbh, but i get this feel. i still think it doesn't really matter; we lynch skylar first, then uh ... idk who after that (if it were up to me it would probably be mist?) and, um, see how the vibes are


Trebek said:


> i mean, that very well could be how other people see it, but that's not going to stop me from putting my thoughts out in chat, because i do genuinely believe rari is town


stuff like this is why i feel pretty at peace with rari/trebek not being w/w tbh even though it is Possible. i don't think their interactions/rari's descriptions of him in private (sorrrrry) make sense with them being co-mafia


Butterfree said:


> I think what kyeugh is saying is that her presenting her opinion is obviously just her own POV because she's one of the wagons in question, while she wants to emphasize that anyone else's opinion may also be coming from a wolf?


i don't really know what differentiates this from my understanding/description of it honestly?


Butterfree said:


> Outgroup mafia flipping town kind of makes sense; the mafia will have interacted with them as if they were town.


the reason that i even brought up the godfather flipspec was because, according to what little jack has said, it sounds like outgroup mafia would flip red if they existed/exist (meaning that it would have stayed consistent with an inspection result). on the other hand i - sorry for repeating this - really didn't intend for it to become a distracting line of thought


Butterfree said:


> Otherwise Keldeo's counterclaim was some real 4D chess to... make Bluwii look townier when Keldeo flipped? Actually that's not impossible and could be kind of clever, hrmm. But Bluwii's reaction there struck me as very genuine, and Bluwii's ISO again felt super towny to me even when I went into it suspicious, so I'm still disinclined.


this is pretty much where i'm at

also if i'm being fully honest skylar's last posts make me kind of waver on sympathy-TRing her tbh because i wonder if a wolf would care that much, or if it's just really intense dedication to the W, man i think friendship is clouding my thinking rn. there's no way for rari/kyeugh to be v/v is there ... ? otherwise villa!necro!kyeugh doesn't get blocked there. ugh

lol what if the scumteam were just bfree/mp7/mist/blu (or koko). i'd lose my damn mind


----------



## mewtini

mewtini said:


> we lynch skylar first, then uh ... idk who after that (if it were up to me it would probably be mist?) and, um, see how the vibes are


i like how i said this and proceeded to write the rest of my post in a constant state of self-doubt


----------



## mewtini

mewtini said:


> lol what if the scumteam were just bfree/mp7/mist/blu (or koko). i'd lose my damn mind


a reason for this to not be true is that mp7's iso on blu kind of doesn't make real sense if they're w/w


----------



## Tangrowth

I am so sorry, everyone! In addition to other IRL circumstances, I had developments throughout this week (that are certainly good!) that necessitated significant time spent elsewhere. I hope you can understand.

I... need to sleep shortly, lol, so I'll be around in the morning prior to EOD!


----------



## Novae

it seems we are getting close to EoD tbh so I will be putting my vote on *kyeugh* to prevent any last-minute shenanigans

I'm still not 100% sold on this, but I think it's a better idea than letting wagons be split at EoD

unless @rari_teh @Trebek and @mewtini all show up soon


----------



## JackPK

Reminder: The day phase will end in *2 hours*.

*Active votes*
rari_teh votes kyeugh (#4453)
kyeugh votes rari_teh (#4513)
Trebek votes kyeugh (#4524)
mewtini votes kyeugh (#4583)
Mist1422 votes kyeugh (#4612)



Spoiler: Full vote history



Active votes bolded.

*rari_teh votes kyeugh (#4453)
kyeugh votes rari_teh (#4513)
Trebek votes kyeugh (#4524)
mewtini votes kyeugh (#4583)
Mist1422 votes kyeugh (#4612)*


----------



## Trebek

i am here, just don’t have anything new to share at the moment

but will be around until EoD if anyone else pops up


----------



## mewtini

yeah same boat. i'm vibing


----------



## Tangrowth

Okay, I'm here! XD

Now to try to figure out what to do, lmao.


----------



## rari_teh

me as well tbh


----------



## Tangrowth

If anyone could point me towards Important Things, it would be appreciated incredibly! Otherwise I am going to try to be efficient.


----------



## mewtini

mp7 yoooooo


----------



## Tangrowth

mewtini said:


> mp7 yoooooo


Hey, mewtini! What's up?


----------



## Trebek

mp7 eyyyyyy

would be interested in your thoughts on interactions between me/kyeugh, especially at the start of D4


----------



## mewtini

M Plus 7 said:


> mewtini said:
> 
> 
> 
> mp7 yoooooo
> 
> 
> 
> Hey, mewtini! What's up?
Click to expand...

prepping myself for a pseudo-stressful EoD honestly! i am compiling stuff for you atm, give me a sec


----------



## Trebek

mewtini said:


> M Plus 7 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> mewtini said:
> 
> 
> 
> mp7 yoooooo
> 
> 
> 
> Hey, mewtini! What's up?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> prepping myself for a pseudo-stressful EoD honestly! i am compiling stuff for you atm, give me a sec
Click to expand...

mewt will probably be able to compile stuff better/more objectively than my vague pointer, so let’s stick with that :p


----------



## Tangrowth

You are awesome, thank you mewtini!

And sure, I'll start looking there, thanks Trebek!


----------



## rari_teh

yeah i was going to compile a little something but i think that it’s better if mewt does it tbh, given that i’m apparently the counterwagon and the conflict of interest could make my recap partial tbh


----------



## Tangrowth

I really appreciate you all being so patient and understanding with me. It is atypical for me to miss a phase entirely. Hopefully that doesn't happen anymore!


----------



## mewtini

M Plus 7 said:


> If anyone could point me towards Important Things, it would be appreciated incredibly! Otherwise I am going to try to be efficient.


gonna do this across a few posts because if i don't i won't post for like half an hour

current claims:


Spoiler: living players/cats/roles



- mewtini (copclear + JoaT)
- kyeugh (old deuteronomy, one-shot necromancer)
- rari (munkustrap, neighborizer)
- butterfree (fishing brother, rolecopped)
- mp7 (fishing brother)
- bluwiikoon (cassandra, VT)
- mist (forgot the cat, VT)
- trebek (syllabub, VT)
- koko (maitre d', VT)





Spoiler: dead players/cats/roles



- rnp (jailer)
- VM (jennyanydots, vig)
- herbe (victoria, rolecop)
- emmy (cop)
- ultracool (?)
- keldeo (?)
- myuma (?)
- tofu (lynchproof)
- ILS (doctor, acc. to herbe)
- stryke (VT)
- mawile (?)
- seshas (? but i tracked her n0 and got no result)


----------



## Tangrowth

mewtini said:


> M Plus 7 said:
> 
> 
> 
> If anyone could point me towards Important Things, it would be appreciated incredibly! Otherwise I am going to try to be efficient.
> 
> 
> 
> gonna do this across a few posts because if i don't i won't post for like half an hour
> 
> current claims:
> 
> 
> Spoiler: living players/cats/roles
> 
> 
> 
> - mewtini (copclear + JoaT)
> - kyeugh (old deuteronomy, one-shot necromancer)
> - rari (munkustrap, neighborizer)
> - butterfree (fishing brother, rolecopped)
> - mp7 (fishing brother)
> - bluwiikoon (cassandra, VT)
> - mist (forgot the cat, VT)
> - trebek (syllabub, VT)
> - koko (maitre d', VT)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler: dead players/cats/roles
> 
> 
> 
> - rnp (jailer)
> - VM (jennyanydots, vig)
> - herbe (victoria, rolecop)
> - emmy (cop)
> - ultracool (?)
> - keldeo (?)
> - myuma (?)
> - tofu (lynchproof)
> - ILS (doctor, acc. to herbe)
> - stryke (VT)
> - mawile (?)
> - seshas (? but i tracked her n0 and got no result)
Click to expand...

Lmao, thank you!


----------



## rari_teh

the cats mewt forgot to name:

mewtini: Mr. Mistoffelees
mist: Coricopat
rnp: Gus the Theatre Cat
emmy: Skimbleshanks

we don’t know the others. i suspect you and bfree must be mungojerrie and rumpleteazer bc that’s the only thing that makes sense (is that right?)


----------



## mewtini

M Plus 7 said:


> Lmao, thank you!


bfree's 4369 is probably a good place to start with skylar's iso. the wagons atm are i guess skylar vs. rari because, based on interactions, they can't really be w/w and there's probably a wolf between the two; skylar claimed one-shot necromancer to rari in a temporary neighbor chat, but then claimed to have gotten blocked later and connected that to having claimed to rari (beginning in 3919, i would maybe read through about 4100 if you can, there was some surrounding tense talk about it)


----------



## Tangrowth

rari_teh said:


> the cats mewt forgot to name:
> 
> mewtini: Mr. Mistoffelees
> mist: Coricopat
> rnp: Gus the Theatre Cat
> emmy: Skimbleshanks
> 
> we don’t know the others. i suspect you and bfree must be mungojerrie and rumpleteazer bc that’s the only thing that makes sense (is that right?)


Yep, that's right!


----------



## Tangrowth

mewtini said:


> M Plus 7 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Lmao, thank you!
> 
> 
> 
> bfree's 4369 is probably a good place to start with skylar's iso. the wagons atm are i guess skylar vs. rari because, based on interactions, they can't really be w/w and there's probably a wolf between the two; skylar claimed one-shot necromancer to rari in a temporary neighbor chat, but then claimed to have gotten blocked later and connected that to having claimed to rari (beginning in 3919, i would maybe read through about 4100 if you can, there was some surrounding tense talk about it)
Click to expand...

Makes sense to me. Thank you!


----------



## mewtini

ok actually idrk what else to grab because i think that was pretty much the most important objective info i could give, so ping me if you have other q's/other people should feel free to chip in lmao


----------



## mewtini

the non-objective info: my 2c is that i think trebek is town (based partially on my own personality read of him, but) and that rari is town; we've been neighborchatting all game except for d2, when she talked to skylar, and i have difficulty figuring out any potential w/w pair with her because she's seemed eager to talk about pretty much anyone. i also have seen all the messages between rari/skylar (so i steadfastly believe they cannot be w/w)


----------



## mewtini

this is admittedly kind of fucking up my reasoning because it means that i'm locked into pretty much one scumteam though


----------



## Trebek

as a side note that i don’t think has been mentioned yet: i have a feeling that me/skylar are v/w, because i feel like mafia would’ve jumped on our interactions to create dueling wagons if we were v/v

that’s my biased take on it since i know my role but does that make sense to anyone else?


----------



## rari_teh

Trebek said:


> as a side note that i don’t think has been mentioned yet: i have a feeling that me/skylar are v/w, because i feel like mafia would’ve jumped on our interactions to create dueling wagons if we were v/v
> 
> that’s my biased take on it since i know my role but does that make sense to anyone else?


fwiw it does make sense for me tbh
though we admittedly shouldn’t always take for granted that the mafia is playing well tbh


----------



## Trebek

rari plz you’re giving me too much reaction score it’s dangerous for my self esteem


----------



## Tangrowth

mewtini said:


> the non-objective info: my 2c is that i think trebek is town (based partially on my own personality read of him, but) and that rari is town; we've been neighborchatting all game except for d2, when she talked to skylar, and i have difficulty figuring out any potential w/w pair with her because she's seemed eager to talk about pretty much anyone. i also have seen all the messages between rari/skylar (so i steadfastly believe they cannot be w/w)


This is good to know.

I'll be sure to let you all know what questions I have. Just sort of absorbing as much as I can. XD


----------



## mewtini

Trebek said:


> as a side note that i don’t think has been mentioned yet: i have a feeling that me/skylar are v/w, because i feel like mafia would’ve jumped on our interactions to create dueling wagons if we were v/v


idk how far i'm willing to read into it but i do genuinely think it's weird that the interactions haven't gotten discussed, like at all; only the claim itself attracted any talk


----------



## Trebek

rari_teh said:


> Trebek said:
> 
> 
> 
> as a side note that i don’t think has been mentioned yet: i have a feeling that me/skylar are v/w, because i feel like mafia would’ve jumped on our interactions to create dueling wagons if we were v/v
> 
> that’s my biased take on it since i know my role but does that make sense to anyone else?
> 
> 
> 
> fwiw it does make sense for me tbh
> though we admittedly shouldn’t always take for granted that the mafia is playing well tbh
Click to expand...

that’s valid, i think i’m just perpetually scared of being 4D chessed on


----------



## mewtini

and yeah ftr if skylar gets lynched and flips red i think trebek/rari should be cleared tbh


----------



## Trebek

i would use it to clear rari, but idk how much it would clear me


----------



## Tangrowth

Trebek said:


> as a side note that i don’t think has been mentioned yet: i have a feeling that me/skylar are v/w, because i feel like mafia would’ve jumped on our interactions to create dueling wagons if we were v/v
> 
> that’s my biased take on it since i know my role but does that make sense to anyone else?


That's actually a good theory. Sometimes these sort of selfish reads can be totally accurate!


----------



## Tangrowth

That BFree kyeugh ISO is really well done. I'm trying to see what I can glean from reading in conjunction with looking at kyeugh's ISO right now myself.


----------



## mewtini

ngl i think part of my skylar paranoia would have fallen apart if we were in a world where keldeo was innocent, but we are not. hallelujah!


Trebek said:


> i would use it to clear rari, but idk how much it would clear me


er, i said that because skylar chasing after you has been done in a patently like ... dogged way, i don't think she ever pushes at you like that if you were cowolves


----------



## rari_teh

Trebek said:


> i would use it to clear rari, but idk how much it would clear me


fwiw how you pointed out the flaws in skylar’s claim (which ultimately might have outed her as a wolf) and then how hard skylar pushed you as scumbuddies with me should clear you of any suspicions as well


----------



## Trebek

mewtini said:


> ngl i think part of my skylar paranoia would have fallen apart if we were in a world where keldeo was innocent, but we are not. hallelujah!
> 
> 
> Trebek said:
> 
> 
> 
> i would use it to clear rari, but idk how much it would clear me
> 
> 
> 
> er, i said that because skylar chasing after you has been done in a patently like ... dogged way, i don't think she ever pushes at you like that if you were cowolves
Click to expand...

ahhh, ok! i was thinking about the scenario more from my interactions towards her, not the other way around. that makes more sense :p


----------



## rari_teh

ok, so this is my try at a D4 recap. but please take this with a grain of salt considering skylar voted for me
i also might be forgetting something. yesterDay was a bit wild

- skylar claimed that she was a one-shot necromancer (which she had previously done in private to me in flashneighbourchat) and that her sole shot was blocked two Nights after i neighbourized her, while she tried to revive doc!ils. she concluded that her being blocked could only be an indicative of me being mafia.
- she alleged that she thought that she could revive at any time, but later said that in her head there was no difference between sending her revive during the Day or the Night (?). she was reluctant when trebek suggested her to try to revive again during the Day to test if her shot had indeed been used up, as she didn’t even confirm with Jack if her being blocked meant that her shot was gone. she finally asked jack about her shot and claimed that it was indeed used up.
- amidst this turmoil, in came Keldeo counterclaiming Bluwiikoon’s Cassandra. a grand total of zero people believed his claim except maybe mist. any attempts of steering the discussion back to qva were suffocated by kel’s incessant push towards blu.
- qva voted blu to press him into speaking and he self-voted and quit the thread in anxiety. later he came back only to move his vote back to Keldeo. he hasn’t been back since.
- skylar first said that she was open to being vigged to prove her innocence, but later retracted when she realized that might cost town the win. then she came back to campaigning for her vig, and finally parked at “please don’t vig me”
- vm fullclaimed vig and planned to vig qva, against the pleas of some people who thought that mafia could win at parity and any chance of error should be taken into account (qva, bfree, mist iirc).
- we lynched keldeo (kel 6 × qva 3 × blu 1). vm either didn’t shoot qva or was blocked, and he was nightkilled.


----------



## Tangrowth

Thanks rari! That helps for sure. I wish I had more time, lol.


----------



## mewtini

rari_teh said:


> she alleged that she thought that she could revive at any time, but later said that in her head there was no difference between sending her revive during the Day or the Night (?). she was reluctant when trebek suggested her to try to revive again during the Day to test if her shot had indeed been used up, as she didn’t even confirm with Jack if her being blocked meant that her shot was gone. she finally asked jack about her shot and claimed that it was indeed used up.


i think it was you who suggested that
but yeah that talk was mostly centered on the worry of a mafia roleblocker being around; we were assuming that if a role could use its power during the daytime, that being "roleblocked" would necessitate a roleblocker targeting you the previous night (and skylar had openly posited that the mafia roleblocker was rnp, who was still alive). so the contradiction that popped up/gave rise to drama was around the fact that a one-shot would presumably ask/be vigilant insofar as when it was safe to use a power or when roleblockers seemed liable to be targeting you


----------



## mewtini

mewtini said:


> (and skylar had openly posited that the mafia roleblocker was rnp, who was still alive)


er who had just been lynched actually. lol.


----------



## rari_teh

rari_teh said:


> - amidst this turmoil, in came Keldeo counterclaiming Bluwiikoon’s Cassandra. a grand total of zero people believed his claim except maybe mist. any attempts of steering the discussion back to qva were suffocated by kel’s incessant push towards blu.


i forgot to mention: keldeo claimed that he had breadcrumbed his catname in earlygame and held that as solid proof that he was the real cassandra and blu was mafia. his alleged breadcrumb was referring to his copcover once as “seer cover”. i don’t recall how popular this ‘evidence’ was, but i, trebek, mewt and bfree did not buy it at the time


----------



## Butterfree

I still wish I had more reading time, and am about to try to do a little more reading, but in the meantime, I'm going to vote *kyeugh*, since nothing's really happened to change my thoughts on the ISO.


----------



## Tangrowth

Butterfree said:


> I still wish I had more reading time, and am about to try to do a little more reading, but in the meantime, I'm going to vote *kyeugh*, since nothing's really happened to change my thoughts on the ISO.


Hey BFree! I am definitely interested in whatever other thoughts you may have.


----------



## mewtini

it is kind of making me uncomfortable that 100% of the thread rn is my towncore


----------



## mewtini

at ... 35 to EoD


----------



## Tangrowth

mewtini said:


> it is kind of making me uncomfortable that 100% of the thread rn is my towncore


Wait, why would that be bad?


----------



## Butterfree

M Plus 7 said:


> Butterfree said:
> 
> 
> 
> I still wish I had more reading time, and am about to try to do a little more reading, but in the meantime, I'm going to vote *kyeugh*, since nothing's really happened to change my thoughts on the ISO.
> 
> 
> 
> Hey BFree! I am definitely interested in whatever other thoughts you may have.
Click to expand...

I posted pretty much all my thoughts here.


----------



## mewtini

M Plus 7 said:


> mewtini said:
> 
> 
> 
> it is kind of making me uncomfortable that 100% of the thread rn is my towncore
> 
> 
> 
> Wait, why would that be bad?
Click to expand...

not _bad_ necessarily, just feels weird that literally no mafia (or who i think could be mafia) are around during what i think is an important end-of-phase juncture?


----------



## Tangrowth

Butterfree said:


> M Plus 7 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Butterfree said:
> 
> 
> 
> I still wish I had more reading time, and am about to try to do a little more reading, but in the meantime, I'm going to vote *kyeugh*, since nothing's really happened to change my thoughts on the ISO.
> 
> 
> 
> Hey BFree! I am definitely interested in whatever other thoughts you may have.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I posted pretty much all my thoughts here.
Click to expand...

Thank you! Haha. I'm being pulled in way too many tabs at once, so this is always helpful.


----------



## Tangrowth

mewtini said:


> M Plus 7 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> mewtini said:
> 
> 
> 
> it is kind of making me uncomfortable that 100% of the thread rn is my towncore
> 
> 
> 
> Wait, why would that be bad?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> not _bad_ necessarily, just feels weird that literally no mafia (or who i think could be mafia) are around during what i think is an important end-of-phase juncture?
Click to expand...

Hmmm... yeah, I guess that makes sense. But maybe they feel demotivated or it's just not alignment-indicative?


----------



## mewtini

yeah. i can't really tell and some of skylar's last posts (where she expresses a _lot_ of frustration with the thread) make me paranoia-TR her but i don't truly believe her case over anyone else's ... i'm just second-guessing myself a lot atm


----------



## mewtini

if skylar is town i'm going to feel like, incredibly guilty. but perhaps even more than that i will feel incredibly confused


----------



## rari_teh

mewtini said:


> if skylar is town i'm going to feel like, incredibly guilty. but perhaps even more than that i will feel incredibly confused


me_irl


----------



## Tangrowth

mewtini said:


> yeah. i can't really tell and some of skylar's last posts (where she expresses a _lot_ of frustration with the thread) make me paranoia-TR her but i don't truly believe her case over anyone else's ... i'm just second-guessing myself a lot atm


I understand the feeling, haha.


----------



## mewtini

i'm so excited to post the rari & mewt neighborchat montage in post-game tbh


----------



## rari_teh

mewtini said:


> i'm so excited to post the rari & mewt neighborchat montage in post-game tbh


omg me too tbh :D
i wonder how’s graveyard chat like


----------



## rari_teh

M Plus 7 said:


> mewtini said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> M Plus 7 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> mewtini said:
> 
> 
> 
> it is kind of making me uncomfortable that 100% of the thread rn is my towncore
> 
> 
> 
> Wait, why would that be bad?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> not _bad_ necessarily, just feels weird that literally no mafia (or who i think could be mafia) are around during what i think is an important end-of-phase juncture?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Hmmm... yeah, I guess that makes sense. But maybe they feel demotivated or it's just not alignment-indicative?
Click to expand...

i had a Thought™. maybe they’re doing what keldeo tried to do D2 with ultracool. build a large wagon, and then instill fear by saying that such a large wagon with little to no opposition must surely be a mislynch


----------



## Novae

mewtini said:


> it is kind of making me uncomfortable that 100% of the thread rn is my towncore


fear not I am back from lunch to reactivate your paranoia


----------



## mewtini

i feel comfortable now


----------



## rari_teh

rari_teh said:


> M Plus 7 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> mewtini said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> M Plus 7 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> mewtini said:
> 
> 
> 
> it is kind of making me uncomfortable that 100% of the thread rn is my towncore
> 
> 
> 
> Wait, why would that be bad?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> not _bad_ necessarily, just feels weird that literally no mafia (or who i think could be mafia) are around during what i think is an important end-of-phase juncture?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Hmmm... yeah, I guess that makes sense. But maybe they feel demotivated or it's just not alignment-indicative?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> i had a Thought™. maybe they’re doing what keldeo tried to do D2 with ultracool. build a large wagon, and then instill fear by saying that such a large wagon with little to no opposition must surely be a mislynch
Click to expand...

…especially considering that, if they did that more late in the Day, they would’ve successfully mislynched Herbe (see the graph) :(


----------



## Novae

I still have a Lot of paranoia on kyeugh tbh because like...why make an entire art meme to style on someone you're killing anyway?


----------



## Novae

I'm probably just overthinking this tbh but like

idk, if this were another site I would state "weh" but that term holds no power in this domain


----------



## Tangrowth

Mist1422 said:


> I still have a Lot of paranoia on kyeugh tbh because like...why make an entire art meme to style on someone you're killing anyway?


Wait, what do you mean?


----------



## mewtini

Mist1422 said:


> I still have a Lot of paranoia on kyeugh tbh because like...why make an entire art meme to style on someone you're killing anyway?


i get that. my personality read says she does it as either alignment but ...
what do you make of the fact that keldeo flipped red with respect to this? i think for me w!skylar was cemented by keldeo having indeed been mafia


----------



## mewtini

M Plus 7 said:


> Mist1422 said:
> 
> 
> 
> I still have a Lot of paranoia on kyeugh tbh because like...why make an entire art meme to style on someone you're killing anyway?
> 
> 
> 
> Wait, what do you mean?
Click to expand...

this post


----------



## rari_teh

Mist1422 said:


> I still have a Lot of paranoia on kyeugh tbh because like...why make an entire art meme to style on someone you're killing anyway?


kyeugh is the memeing queen tbh (ehr, i mean, not to dethrone @Eifie )
i don’t think that making a high-effort meme around a scenario that wouldn’t exist outside fiction is above her tbh


----------



## Tangrowth

mewtini said:


> M Plus 7 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mist1422 said:
> 
> 
> 
> I still have a Lot of paranoia on kyeugh tbh because like...why make an entire art meme to style on someone you're killing anyway?
> 
> 
> 
> Wait, what do you mean?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> this post
Click to expand...

oh noooo it's broken for me ?? XD


----------



## mewtini

M Plus 7 said:


> oh noooo it's broken for me ?? XD


weird. it's post #4464


----------



## Novae

mewtini said:


> Mist1422 said:
> 
> 
> 
> I still have a Lot of paranoia on kyeugh tbh because like...why make an entire art meme to style on someone you're killing anyway?
> 
> 
> 
> i get that. my personality read says she does it as either alignment but ...
> what do you make of the fact that keldeo flipped red with respect to this? i think for me w!skylar was cemented by keldeo having indeed been mafia
Click to expand...

I am quite illiterate tbh but I remember someone (bfree?) making a big case on it and my reaction being "hmm, yes, this seems smart"


rari_teh said:


> Mist1422 said:
> 
> 
> 
> I still have a Lot of paranoia on kyeugh tbh because like...why make an entire art meme to style on someone you're killing anyway?
> 
> 
> 
> kyeugh is the memeing queen tbh (ehr, i mean, not to dethrone @Eifie )
> i don’t think that making a high-effort meme around a scenario that wouldn’t exist outside fiction is above her tbh
Click to expand...

I suppose so tbh


----------



## rari_teh

Mist1422 said:


> idk, if this were another site I would state "weh" but that term holds no power in this domain


----------



## mewtini

Mist1422 said:


> I am quite illiterate tbh but I remember someone (bfree?) making a big case on it and my reaction being "hmm, yes, this seems smart"


that was here (#4369)


----------



## Novae

also is it me or are koko and blue conspicuously absent today tbh?

I know blu mentioned having some issues yesterday so I'm willing to give him the benefit of the doubt but I really do not remember much from koko


----------



## mewtini

rari and i were just talking about that tbh tbh. those two + you were what i was mainly referring to when i was like "where tf is my non-towncore"


----------



## Novae

I see tbh


----------



## mewtini

we have ... 15 minutes to EoD ...


----------



## Trebek

hmmmnmnmnmng


----------



## Novae

I can count and there's 9 people alive right now, yes?

assuming kyeugh is mafia, either rari or mewtini dies tonight

leaves:
mist
blu
koko
trebek
MP7
butterfree
rari/mewtini


----------



## mewtini

dark fishing brothers desu?! i joke
if we mislynch here then we lose don't we (either maf reaches parity now, or they reach majority with the NK). :|


----------



## mewtini

or am i miscounting


----------



## rari_teh

if you are miscounting so am i :\


----------



## Novae

mewtini said:


> dark fishing brothers desu?! i joke
> if we mislynch here then we lose don't we (either maf reaches parity now, or they reach majority with the NK). :|


assuming no scum flipped as not scum (outgroup/godfather/third party counting as scum numerically), correct


----------



## mewtini

hnng
i don't think i have anywhere 'safer' where i'd even consider putting my vote
if rari is indeed the mafia here i am sorry tbh :v


----------



## rari_teh

Mist1422 said:


> mewtini said:
> 
> 
> 
> dark fishing brothers desu?! i joke
> if we mislynch here then we lose don't we (either maf reaches parity now, or they reach majority with the NK). :|
> 
> 
> 
> assuming no scum flipped as not scum (outgroup/godfather/third party counting as scum numerically), correct
Click to expand...

iirc jack said either on the signup post or in tvt graveyard chat that outgroup always flips as scum in the games he GMs


----------



## rari_teh

god why is this eod so heartwrenching


----------



## Butterfree

Been looking quickly through some of rari_teh's interactions with Keldeo. They look pretty good at a glance? Sort of belligerent a lot of the time, lots of in-thread back and forth, had Keldeo at the bottom of their reads list at one point (prior to the counterclaim fiasco), considered him largely NAI but didn't seem to want to give him a pass for it.


----------



## mewtini

rari_teh said:


> god why is this eod so heartwrenching


bc it marks the end of our masonry tbh,


----------



## rari_teh

mewtini said:


> rari_teh said:
> 
> 
> 
> god why is this eod so heartwrenching
> 
> 
> 
> bc it marks the end of our masonry tbh,
Click to expand...

omg. yes D:
one of us is definitely dying tonight :c


----------



## Tangrowth

Butterfree said:


> Been looking quickly through some of rari_teh's interactions with Keldeo. They look pretty good at a glance? Sort of belligerent a lot of the time, lots of in-thread back and forth, had Keldeo at the bottom of their reads list at one point (prior to the counterclaim fiasco), considered him largely NAI but didn't seem to want to give him a pass for it.


Trying to look at this super quickly now myself.


----------



## Novae

hmm

now I'm wondering if telling VM not to shoot yesterday was a poor decision


----------



## mewtini

he was between rari/kyeugh; if he shot rari then it was my heal that saved her, if he shot at kyeugh then he must've gotten roleblocked + killed i think?


----------



## mewtini

mewtini said:


> he was between rari/kyeugh; if he shot rari then it was my heal that saved her, if he shot at kyeugh then he must've gotten roleblocked + killed i think?


or they roleblocked + killed him in the first one too lol oops


----------



## rari_teh

Mist1422 said:


> hmm
> 
> now I'm wondering if telling VM not to shoot yesterday was a poor decision


if he didn’t shoot i don’t think it was because he was swayed by you and bfree tbh
in vm’s words, he does whatever he wants with his nk


----------



## mewtini

5 minutes lads D:
hey mafia. massvoting time tbh!


----------



## Trebek

bro this is so stressful where is everyone


----------



## Novae

aye, fair enough


----------



## Trebek

catch me frantically refreshing the page tbh

what’s votecount rn, 4-1?


----------



## Tangrowth

Ughhh more time is needed! Haha.

I think the most convincing things I've seen so far are interactive things. I do think kyeugh looks worse as a potential Keldeo wolfmate than rari does from that perspective.


----------



## rari_teh

5:1


----------



## Tangrowth

*kyeugh*

Fingers crossed.


----------



## mewtini

i guess we will find out one way or another in a moment ... eek


----------



## Trebek

so hype to write my 5 paragraph apology essay if this goes south tbhtbh


----------



## Tangrowth

I'm so sorry too if my not being around made this much harder. glgl


----------



## mewtini

Trebek said:


> so hype to write my 5 paragraph apology essay if this goes south tbhtbh


me too LMAO

My First Mistake: Trusting the Hacker Known as Rari_teh


----------



## qenya

*rari_teh*


----------



## mewtini

M Plus 7 said:


> I'm so sorry too if my not being around made this much harder. glgl


mp7 it was v fun to play with you tbh. ;__;


----------



## Trebek

M Plus 7 said:


> I'm so sorry too if my not being around made this much harder. glgl


don’t be sorry! <3


----------



## Butterfree

kokorico said:


> *rari_teh*


....so just openwolfing now I guess?


----------



## Tangrowth

mewtini said:


> M Plus 7 said:
> 
> 
> 
> I'm so sorry too if my not being around made this much harder. glgl
> 
> 
> 
> mp7 it was v fun to play with you tbh. ;__;
Click to expand...

Likewise, I am definitely going to play here again, with more available time next time for sure!


----------



## rari_teh

omg it’s gonna eeeeeeend D:


----------



## mewtini

hey guys get koko next

For Town!


----------



## Tangrowth

Butterfree said:


> kokorico said:
> 
> 
> 
> *rari_teh*
> 
> 
> 
> ....so just openwolfing now I guess?
Click to expand...

I guess? But why? XD


----------



## Trebek

i belieeeeeeeeve


----------



## mewtini

it is incredibly weird that e would bother to do that with such a majority now tbh.


----------



## qenya

M Plus 7 said:


> Butterfree said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> kokorico said:
> 
> 
> 
> *rari_teh*
> 
> 
> 
> ....so just openwolfing now I guess?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I guess? But why? XD
Click to expand...

because it's MyLo

get in here @Bluwiikoon


----------



## Trebek

uhhhhhh


----------



## JackPK

*The day phase is now over.*

*Active votes*
rari_teh votes kyeugh (#4453)
kyeugh votes rari_teh (#4513)
Trebek votes kyeugh (#4524)
mewtini votes kyeugh (#4583)
Mist1422 votes kyeugh (#4612)
Butterfree votes kyeugh (#4654)
M Plus 7 votes kyeugh (#4711)
kokorico votes rari_teh (#4716)



Spoiler: Full vote history



Active votes bolded.

*rari_teh votes kyeugh (#4453)
kyeugh votes rari_teh (#4513)
Trebek votes kyeugh (#4524)
mewtini votes kyeugh (#4583)
Mist1422 votes kyeugh (#4612)
Butterfree votes kyeugh (#4654)
M Plus 7 votes kyeugh (#4711)
kokorico votes rari_teh (#4716)*



If any votes are wrong or missing, you have *10 minutes* to alert me to them.


----------



## mewtini

j-jack close voting lmfao


----------



## qenya

godfuckingdammit


----------



## mewtini

mewtini said:


> j-jack close voting lmfao


ninja'd in the best way


----------



## Trebek

man with how much EoD ages me idk how much more mafia i can play before i just keel over


----------



## Tangrowth

Trebek said:


> man with how much EoD ages me idk how much more mafia i can play before i just keel over


LMAO, this is a mood.


----------



## Tangrowth

But I have been playing for 10 years now and I'm still not dead, so that's something.


----------



## rari_teh

… :(


----------



## qenya

M Plus 7 said:


> But I have been playing for 10 years now and I'm still not dead, so that's something.


or _are_ you?


----------



## Tangrowth

kokorico said:


> M Plus 7 said:
> 
> 
> 
> But I have been playing for 10 years now and I'm still not dead, so that's something.
> 
> 
> 
> or _are_ you?
Click to expand...

Ghost Plus 7


----------



## rari_teh

welp mates… ’twas good playing with y’all tbh
soulcrushing, but fun. like mafia is


----------



## Trebek

M Plus 7 said:


> kokorico said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> M Plus 7 said:
> 
> 
> 
> But I have been playing for 10 years now and I'm still not dead, so that's something.
> 
> 
> 
> or _are_ you?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Ghost Plus 7
Click to expand...

the 7 is how many lives mafia has burnt through


----------



## JackPK

Filler post goes here so the end-of-day post can be at the top of a page


----------



## JackPK

Having come to a consensus, the cats haul *kyeugh* down to the time-out basement. As the town members are distracted trying to determine the presence or absence of suspicious materials on kyeugh’s person, the scum reveal themselves and take action!

Butterfree and M Plus 7 wrestle the remaining townies to the floor, and kokorico takes out a canister of catnip and doses them with a plume of the drug. rari_teh takes mewtini by the hand, chuckles lightly, and says, “Sorry, ‘mason,’ ” before giving a snap and vanishing her from the room entirely. With all the Jellicle cats at their mercy, Macavity’s gang is assured control of the Jellicle ball...

*kyeugh was yeeted.
She was not scum.

The scum have achieved parity with town.
Scum win!*



Spoiler: Game summary



*N0
Mawile* was killed. He was *not scum*.

*D1
Stryke* was yeeted. He was *not scum*.

*N1
Seshas* was killed. They were *not scum*.
*myuma* was killed. She was *not scum*.

*D2
Mr. Ultracool* was yeeted. He was *scum*.

*N2
I liek Squirtles* was killed. He was *not scum*.

*D3
RedneckPhoenix* was yeeted. He was *not scum*.

*N3
IndigoEmmy* was killed. She was *not scum*.
*Herbe* was killed. He was *not scum*.
*Tofu* was killed. She was *not scum*.

*D4
Keldeo* was yeeted. He was *scum*.

*N4
Vipera Magnifica* was killed. He was *not scum*.

*D5
kyeugh* was killed. She was *not scum*.

*Scum win!*





Spoiler: Roles and alignments



@Butterfree: *Fishing Brother*
@Mawile: *Vanilla*
@Keldeo: *Vanilla*
@Herbe: *Rolecop*
@kyeugh: *Necromancer*
@mewtini: *Jack of All Trades*
@Seshas: *Limited Neighborizer*
@IndigoEmmy: *Cop*
@kokorico: *Roleblocker*
@I liek Squirtles: *Doctor*
@Trebek: *Vanilla*
@rari_teh: *Limited Neighborizer*
@myuma: *Miller & Motion Detector*
@M Plus 7: *Fishing Brother*
@Tofu: *Lynchproof*
@Bluwiikoon: *Vanilla*
@Stryke: *Vanilla*
@Vipera Magnifica: *Vigilante*
@RedneckPhoenix: *Jailkeeper*
@Mist1422: *Vanilla*
@Mr. Ultracool: *Vanilla*



Role PMs will be split into two separate posts below, as the forum software does not permit me to put more than 20 images in one post.


----------



## JackPK

Spoiler: Scum Role PMs






Spoiler: rari_teh — Macavity — scum leader and Limited Neighborizer



You are *Macavity*. You are the scum leader and your role is *Limited Neighborizer*.







_Macavity, Macavity, there's no one like Macavity.
There never was a cat of such deceitfulness and suavity.
He always has an alibi and one or two to spare.
Whatever time the deed took place, Macavity wasn't there._

You are *Macavity*, known as the “Napoleon of Crime,” the leader of a band of scum who want to eliminate the Jellicle tribe. You specialize in spreading rumors and whispers to deflect suspicion off you.

As the scum leader, you perform the factional night kill and can privately communicate with the other scum at any time. As a *Limited Neighborizer*, you also have the power to choose another player each night and have private communications with them throughout the following day phase. (You may not continue to communicate with that player after the end of the following day phase.)

You are aligned with the *scum*. Your win condition is *to outnumber or equal the townies*.

The other scum are kokorico, Keldeo, Mr. Ultracool, Butterfree, and M Plus 7.





Spoiler: kokorico — Bombalurina — Roleblocker



You are *Bombalurina*. You are part of the scum faction and your role is *Roleblocker*.







_And they say that all the cats whose wicked deeds are widely known
Are nothing more than agents for the cat who all the time
Just controls the operations: the Napoleon of Crime!_

You are *Bombalurina*, the second-in-command of the band of scum who want to eliminate the Jellicle tribe. You specialize in using catnip to incapacitate other cats.

You will inherit the factional night kill if the scum leader dies, and you can privately communicate with the other scum at any time. As a *Roleblocker*, you also have the power to choose another player each night and prevent them from using any night actions.

You are aligned with the *scum*. Your win condition is *to outnumber or equal the townies*.

The other scum are rari_teh, Keldeo, Mr. Ultracool, Butterfree, and M Plus 7.





Spoiler: Keldeo — Growltiger — Vanilla



You are *Growltiger*. You are part of the scum faction and your role is *Vanilla*.







_And they say that all the cats whose wicked deeds are widely known
Are nothing more than agents for the cat who all the time
Just controls the operations: the Napoleon of Crime!_

You are *Growltiger*, part of a band of scum who want to eliminate the Jellicle tribe.

You can privately communicate with the other scum at any time. As a *Vanilla*, you have no special powers or traits. You are third in line in the scum faction, so you will inherit the scum’s factional night kill if both the scum leader and the scum roleblocker die.

You are aligned with the *scum*. Your win condition is *to outnumber or equal the townies*.

The other scum are rari_teh, kokorico, Mr. Ultracool, Butterfree, and M Plus 7.





Spoiler: Mr. Ultracool — Griddlebone — Vanilla



You are *Griddlebone*. You are part of the scum faction and your role is *Vanilla*.







_And they say that all the cats whose wicked deeds are widely known
Are nothing more than agents for the cat who all the time
Just controls the operations: the Napoleon of Crime!_

You are *Griddlebone*, part of a band of scum who want to eliminate the Jellicle tribe.

You can privately communicate with the other scum at any time. As a *Vanilla*, you have no special powers or traits. You are fourth in line in the scum faction, so you will inherit the scum’s factional night kill after the deaths of the scum leader, the scum roleblocker, and your fellow vanilla scum.

You are aligned with the *scum*. Your win condition is *to outnumber or equal the townies*.

The other scum are rari_teh, kokorico, Keldeo, Butterfree, and M Plus 7.





Spoiler: Butterfree — Mungojerrie — Fishing Brother



You are *Mungojerrie*. You are part of the scum faction and your role is *Fishing Brother*.







_If the area window is found ajar, and the basement looks like a field of war,
If after supper one of the girls suddenly misses her Woolworth pearls:
The family will say: 'It's that horrible cat! Was it Mungojerrie - or Rumpleteazer?'
And most of the time they leave it at that._

You are *Mungojerrie*, one-half of a duo of infamous cat burglars and part of a band of scum who want to eliminate the Jellicle tribe. You have a special connection with your partner Rumpleteazer, who is *M Plus 7*.

You can privately communicate with the other scum at any time. As a *Fishing Brother*, you have the power to kill one player of your choice during the next night phase after Rumpleteazer dies. You are last in line to inherit the scum’s factional night kill, and you can only inherit it after you’ve used your Fishing Brother kill.

You are aligned with the *scum*. Your win condition is *to outnumber or equal the townies*.

The other scum are rari_teh, kokorico, Keldeo, Mr. Ultracool, and M Plus 7.





Spoiler: M Plus 7 — Rumpleteazer — Fishing Brother



You are *Rumpleteazer*. You are part of the scum faction and your role is *Fishing Brother*.







_If the area window is found ajar, and the basement looks like a field of war,
If after supper one of the girls suddenly misses her Woolworth pearls:
The family will say: 'It's that horrible cat! Was it Mungojerrie - or Rumpleteazer?'
And most of the time they leave it at that._

You are *Rumpleteazer*, one-half of a duo of infamous cat burglars and part of a band of scum who want to eliminate the Jellicle tribe. You have a special connection with your partner Mungojerrie, who is *Butterfree*.

You can privately communicate with the other scum at any time. As a *Fishing Brother*, you have the power to kill one player of your choice during the next night phase after Mungojerrie dies. You are last in line to inherit the scum’s factional night kill, and you can only inherit it after you’ve used your Fishing Brother kill.

You are aligned with the *scum*. Your win condition is *to outnumber or equal the townies*.

The other scum are rari_teh, kokorico, Keldeo, Mr. Ultracool, and Butterfree.


----------



## Trebek

welp time to work on that essay :(


----------



## rari_teh

welp. i’m sorry y’all


----------



## Trebek

rari i can’t believe this


----------



## JackPK

Spoiler: Town Role PMs






Spoiler: Herbe — Victoria — Rolecop



You are *Victoria*. Your role is *Rolecop*.







_All that I wanted was to be wanted.
Too young to wander London streets, alone and haunted.
Born into nothing; at least you have something -
Something to cling to, visions of dazzling rooms I'll never get let into.
And the memories were lost long ago,
But at least you have beautiful ghosts._

You are *Victoria*, an abandoned kitten longing to find a place where she belongs. Newly introduced into the Jellicle tribe, you spend your nights learning what each of your fellow cats does in their spare time.

As a *Rolecop*, you have the power to inspect another player each night and discover the name of their role or roles. However, this does not tell you their alignment.

You are aligned with the *town*. Your win condition is *for all the scum to be dead*.





Spoiler: kyeugh — Old Deuteronomy — Necromancer



You are *Old Deuteronomy*. Your role is *Necromancer*.







_And the Jellicle leader will soon appear
And make what is known as the Jellicle choice:
When Old Deuteronomy, just before dawn,
Through a silence you feel you could cut with a knife,
Announces the cat who can now be reborn
And come back to a different Jellicle life._

You are *Old Deuteronomy*, the ancient matriarch of the Jellicle tribe. At the annual Jellicle Ball, it is your responsibility to choose a cat who will ascend to the Heaviside Layer and be reborn into a new life.

As a one-shot *Necromancer*, you have the power to choose one dead player at any time in the course of the game, and at the start of the next day phase, they will be returned to life. You may only use this power once.

You are aligned with the *town*. Your win condition is *for all the scum to be dead*.





Spoiler: myuma — Grizabella — Miller & Motion Detector



You are *Grizabella*. Your roles are *Miller* and *Motion Detector*.







_Remark the cat who hesitates towards you
In the light of the door which opens on her like a grin.
You see the border of her coat is torn and stained with sand,
And you see the corner of her eye twists like a crooked pin._

You are *Grizabella*, a once-glamorous cat who has become an exile from the Jellicle tribe, cruelly mistrusted by the other cats. You dream of your long-lost glory days as you stay on the outskirts of the colony, watching the activities that go on in the night.

As a *Miller*, you will be seen as scum by inspections. (You will still flip as not scum if you are killed.) As a *Motion Detector*, you have the power to choose another player each night to detect whether any actions were performed by or on that player.

You are aligned with the *town*. Your win condition is *for all the scum to be dead*.





Spoiler: mewtini — Mr. Mistoffelees — Jack of All Trades



You are *Mr. Mistoffelees*. Your role is *Jack of All Trades*.







_And we all say: ‘Oh! Well, I never!
Was there ever a cat so clever
As magical Mr. Mistoffelees?’_

You are *Mr. Mistoffelees*, the Jellicle tribe’s magician-in-training who can tap into many kinds of magic but specializes in none.

As a *Jack of All Trades*, you have the power to choose another player each night and either kill them, track them (to learn whom they targeted), or heal them (to protect them from being killed). You must use all three options before you can repeat a power you’ve already used (and then must use all three again before you can repeat again, and so on).

You are aligned with the *town*. Your win condition is *for all the scum to be dead*.





Spoiler: I liek Squirtles — Munkustrap — Doctor



You are *Munkustrap*. Your role is *Doctor*.







_Jellicle Cats come out tonight.
Jellicle Cats, come one, come all.
The Jellicle Moon is shining bright.
Jellicles come to the Jellicle Ball._

You are *Munkustrap*, a leader in the Jellicle tribe who guards vulnerable cats and guides them in the Jellicle way of life.

As a *Doctor*, you have the power to protect another player each night, preventing them from being killed.

You are aligned with the *town*. Your win condition is *for all the scum to be dead*.





Spoiler: Vipera Magnifica — Jennyanydots — Vigilante



You are *Jennyanydots*. Your role is *Vigilante*.







_But when the day’s hustle and bustle is done,
Then the Gumbie Cat’s work is but hardly begun._

You are *Jennyanydots*, the old Gumbie Cat who keeps the household running with her army of mice and cockroaches. Now, with the Jellicle tribe under attack, maybe you can put that army to an even better use...

As a *Vigilante*, you have the power to kill another player each night.

You are aligned with the *town*. Your win condition is *for all the scum to be dead*.





Spoiler: Tofu — Bustopher Jones — Lynchproof



You are *Bustopher Jones*. Your role is *Lynchproof*.







_He's the cat we all greet as he walks down the street
In his coat of fastidious black;
And we're all of us proud to be nodded or bowed to
By Bustopher Jones in white spats._

You are *Bustopher Jones*, a hoity-toity cat of the upper classes. You are well known among your peers in the Jellicle tribe, and their trust in you could be your saving grace.

As a one-shot *Lynchproof*, you will automatically survive the first time the town tries to lynch you.

You are aligned with the *town*. Your win condition is *for all the scum to be dead*.





Spoiler: Seshas — the Rum Tum Tugger — Limited Neighborizer



You are the *Rum Tum Tugger*. Your role is *Limited Neighborizer*.







_The Rum Tum Tugger is a curious cat,
And there isn't any use for you to doubt it.
For he will do as he do, do,
And there's no doing anything about it._

You are the *Rum Tum Tugger*, a womanizing tomcat who can’t make up his mind and does whatever he likes, without regard for what anyone thinks.

As a *Limited Neighborizer*, you have the power to choose another player each night and have private communications with them throughout the following day phase. (You may not continue to communicate with that player after the end of the following day phase.)

You are aligned with the *town*. Your win condition is *for all the scum to be dead*.





Spoiler: RedneckPhoenix —  Gus the Theatre Cat — Jailkeeper



You are *Gus the Theatre Cat*. Your role is *Jailkeeper*.







_I have played in my time every possible part,
And I used to know seventy speeches by heart.
I'd extemporize back chat, I knew how to gag,
And I knew how to let the cat out of the bag._

You are *Gus the Theatre Cat*, an old Jellicle actor who loves to talk about the good old days when he was in his prime. In fact, you could talk all night long about it, keeping one of your fellow cats busy and unable to do anything else.

As a *Jailkeeper*, you have the power to choose another player each night and prevent them from using night actions and from being killed.

You are aligned with the *town*. Your win condition is *for all the scum to be dead*.





Spoiler: IndigoEmmy — Skimbleshanks — Cop



You are *Skimbleshanks*. Your role is *Cop*.







_Down the corridor he paces
And examines all the faces
Of the travellers in the first and the third.
He establishes control by a regular patrol,
And he'd know at once if anything occurred._

You are *Skimbleshanks*, the railway cat who ensures the trains run smoothly. You have an eye for detail and a reputation for keeping things under control.

As a *Cop*, you have the power to inspect another player each night and discover their alignment.

You are aligned with the *town*. Your win condition is *for all the scum to be dead*.





Spoiler: Bluwiikoon — Cassandra — Vanilla



You are *Cassandra*. Your role is *Vanilla*.







_When you fall on your head, do you land on your feet?
Are you tense when you sense there's a storm in the air?
Can you find your way blind when you're lost in the street?
Do you know how to go to the Heaviside Layer?
Because Jellicles can and Jellicles do!_

You are *Cassandra*, a member of the Jellicle tribe.

As a *Vanilla*, you have no special powers or traits. 

You are aligned with the *town*. Your win condition is *for all the scum to be dead*.





Spoiler: Mawile — Demeter — Vanilla



You are *Demeter*. Your role is *Vanilla*.







_When you fall on your head, do you land on your feet?
Are you tense when you sense there's a storm in the air?
Can you find your way blind when you're lost in the street?
Do you know how to go to the Heaviside Layer?
Because Jellicles can and Jellicles do!_

You are *Demeter*, a member of the Jellicle tribe.

As a *Vanilla*, you have no special powers or traits. 

You are aligned with the *town*. Your win condition is *for all the scum to be dead*.





Spoiler: Superjolt/Mist1422 — Coricopat — Vanilla



You are *Coricopat*. Your role is *Vanilla*.







_When you fall on your head, do you land on your feet?
Are you tense when you sense there's a storm in the air?
Can you find your way blind when you're lost in the street?
Do you know how to go to the Heaviside Layer?
Because Jellicles can and Jellicles do!_

You are *Coricopat*, a member of the Jellicle tribe.

As a *Vanilla*, you have no special powers or traits. 

You are aligned with the *town*. Your win condition is *for all the scum to be dead*.





Spoiler: Stryke — Jellylorum — Vanilla



You are *Jellylorum*. Your role is *Vanilla*.







_When you fall on your head, do you land on your feet?
Are you tense when you sense there's a storm in the air?
Can you find your way blind when you're lost in the street?
Do you know how to go to the Heaviside Layer?
Because Jellicles can and Jellicles do!_

You are *Jellylorum*, a member of the Jellicle tribe.

As a *Vanilla*, you have no special powers or traits. 

You are aligned with the *town*. Your win condition is *for all the scum to be dead*.





Spoiler: Trebek — Syllabub — Vanilla



You are *Syllabub*. Your role is *Vanilla*.







_When you fall on your head, do you land on your feet?
Are you tense when you sense there's a storm in the air?
Can you find your way blind when you're lost in the street?
Do you know how to go to the Heaviside Layer?
Because Jellicles can and Jellicles do!_

You are *Syllabub*, a member of the Jellicle tribe.

As a *Vanilla*, you have no special powers or traits. 

You are aligned with the *town*. Your win condition is *for all the scum to be dead*.


----------



## Trebek

THE PFP CHANGE OMG


----------



## Tangrowth

Well, this was fun. I do wish I had been around so I could have actually powerwolfed, hehe. See you all in another one, and thanks for having me!


----------



## Tangrowth

rari_teh said:


> welp. i’m sorry y’all


Incredible PFP change.


----------



## Novae

:woweek:


----------



## qenya

Oh my god, poor myuma! That's a horrible role. Miller alongside a town PR that's really easy for scum to fakeclaim, eek.


----------



## Trebek

i’m never going to confidently push someone ever again


----------



## Tangrowth

Trebek said:


> i’m never going to confidently push someone ever again


I know this feeling well. You seriously tried your best from everything I could tell, and as long as you had fun and feel like you learned about yourself and can improve, I think that's a game you should be proud of. 

You will be wrong again at some point, it happens to all of us!


----------



## rari_teh

for real, i felt like the biggest asshole in the world dissociating myself from mafia!me in that neighbourchat
it was, at the same time, genuinely where i could vent and air and just chill and also the place that haunted me at night for what i was doing
i am especially sorry, mewtini :((( i hope we can be, one day, masons for real… we were on a roll there
something must be said about a private comm when it manages to get four times longer than the scumchat


----------



## Tangrowth

M Plus 7 said:


> Trebek said:
> 
> 
> 
> i’m never going to confidently push someone ever again
> 
> 
> 
> I know this feeling well. You seriously tried your best from everything I could tell, and as long as you had fun and feel like you learned about yourself and can improve, I think that's a game you should be proud of.
> 
> You will be wrong again at some point, it happens to all of us!
Click to expand...

To add to this: It doesn't mean you shouldn't believe in yourself or your cases if you feel you have reason to. Sometimes you will get it right, and it will be worth the subsequent euphoria. That's a solid part of why I'm still playing even after everything that's happened in my life during my career.

Another part is the people. Mafia folks are some of the best, especially when you find a great community.

Needless to say, I felt overwhelmingly welcome and at ease here, and I hope to play with as many of you as possible again.


----------



## Mawile

btw I still find it hilarious that I was killed off n0 so that the mafia wouldn't have to deal with me basically


----------



## JackPK

The full night action log can be found here, if anyone is interested!


----------



## Tangrowth

rari_teh said:


> for real, i felt like the biggest asshole in the world dissociating myself from mafia!me in that neighbourchat
> it was, at the same time, genuinely where i could vent and air and just chill and also the place that haunted me at night for what i was doing
> i am especially sorry, mewtini :((( i hope we can be, one day, masons for real… we were on a roll there
> something must be said about a private comm when it manages to get four times longer than the scumchat


You did what you felt you needed to in order to win! That's fine for sure.


----------



## Trebek

M Plus 7 said:


> M Plus 7 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Trebek said:
> 
> 
> 
> i’m never going to confidently push someone ever again
> 
> 
> 
> I know this feeling well. You seriously tried your best from everything I could tell, and as long as you had fun and feel like you learned about yourself and can improve, I think that's a game you should be proud of.
> 
> You will be wrong again at some point, it happens to all of us!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> To add to this: It doesn't mean you shouldn't believe in yourself or your cases if you feel you have reason to. Sometimes you will get it right, and it will be worth the subsequent euphoria. That's a solid part of why I'm still playing even after everything that's happened in my life during my career.
> 
> Another part is the people. Mafia folks are some of the best, especially when you find a great community.
> 
> Needless to say, I felt overwhelmingly welcome and at ease here, and I hope to play with as many of you as possible again.
Click to expand...

this genuinely means a lot

thank you <3


----------



## Tangrowth

Trebek said:


> M Plus 7 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> M Plus 7 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Trebek said:
> 
> 
> 
> i’m never going to confidently push someone ever again
> 
> 
> 
> I know this feeling well. You seriously tried your best from everything I could tell, and as long as you had fun and feel like you learned about yourself and can improve, I think that's a game you should be proud of.
> 
> You will be wrong again at some point, it happens to all of us!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> To add to this: It doesn't mean you shouldn't believe in yourself or your cases if you feel you have reason to. Sometimes you will get it right, and it will be worth the subsequent euphoria. That's a solid part of why I'm still playing even after everything that's happened in my life during my career.
> 
> Another part is the people. Mafia folks are some of the best, especially when you find a great community.
> 
> Needless to say, I felt overwhelmingly welcome and at ease here, and I hope to play with as many of you as possible again.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> this genuinely means a lot
> 
> thank you <3
Click to expand...

Absolutely, it's all true. I genuinely admired your play especially considering how early you are in your career. I think you have only one way to go and it's up!


----------



## qenya

Mawile said:


> btw I still find it hilarious that I was killed off n0 so that the mafia wouldn't have to deal with me basically


Ah, honestly the N0 kill was pretty arbitrary. Sorry.

We didn't want to kill any of the people who led town in TVT since we thought they might be targeted by doctors, and we didn't want to kill anyone for whom this was their first game. That left very few options.


----------



## Butterfree

This game was a great time! I'm sorry for bamboozling you all (largely thanks to my convenient proven role that sounded town). Thanks for playing, everyone~ And Jack for GMing, of course!


----------



## Tangrowth

Butterfree said:


> This game was a great time! I'm sorry for bamboozling you all (largely thanks to my convenient proven role that sounded town). Thanks for playing, everyone~ And Jack for GMing, of course!


I want to echo the thanks to Jack as well, this game was interesting!


----------



## Novae

I have a really bad track record on games I replace in D2


----------



## Mawile

kokorico said:


> Ah, honestly the N0 kill was pretty arbitrary. Sorry.
> 
> We didn't want to kill any of the people who led town in TVT since we thought they might be targeted by doctors, and we didn't want to kill anyone for whom this was their first game. That left very few options.


actually it worked out since I was super busy the first couple week(s?) of the game lol


----------



## Tangrowth

Mist1422 said:


> I have a really bad track record on games I replace in D2


That's an intriguing stat!


----------



## Novae

M Plus 7 said:


> Mist1422 said:
> 
> 
> 
> I have a really bad track record on games I replace in D2
> 
> 
> 
> That's an intriguing stat!
Click to expand...

I am specifically talking about this game and s6g11 tbh but it quite is


----------



## sanderidge

_wow _that was a REALLY WILD ride. i cannot believe i read 238 pages of a mafia game i was not involved in at all but i think i learned some things about How Play Mafia (and also the shenanigans were very fun to >:O at). it was really fun to watch! thank you all for a good thread to read while procrastinating


----------



## JackPK

sanderidge said:


> _wow _that was a REALLY WILD ride. i cannot believe i read 238 pages of a mafia game i was not involved in at all but i think i learned some things about How Play Mafia (and also the shenanigans were very fun to >:O at). it was really fun to watch! thank you all for a good thread to read while procrastinating


Oh I didn't realize you were spectating! I'll go add you to graveyard chat too so you can see what went on there!


----------



## Novae

I have changed my avatar as a reaction to this game tbh


----------



## Mawile

gotta say though that this game was super entertaining to watch and I did not expect the fishing brothers to secretly be dark fishing brothers tbh


----------



## mewtini

rari fucking GOAT


----------



## mewtini

i literally cannot even be mad


----------



## Trebek

mewtini said:


> rari fucking GOAT


can’t believe this

i spent so much time going “lmao raris reacting to all of my posts it’s almost like she’s trying to pocket me”


----------



## Trebek

Spoiler


----------



## mewtini

jack how much did it suck to watch me get absolutely duped over the course of 2.5k messages


----------



## JackPK

mewtini said:


> jack how much did it suck to watch me get absolutely duped over the course of 2.5k messages


incredibly so, but at the same time I was in awe of rari


----------



## Novae

rari played out of their mind this game tbh and I haven't even read neighbor chat yet


----------



## mewtini

fr though congrats to mafia tbh, that was insane. i am so annoyed that the dark fishing brothers tinfoil became real. also @skylar i hope someday we have a game where we stay solidly in each other’s (real) towncore :( sorry braintwin


----------



## Trebek

ok last meme before i go actually write an essay about how bad i feel about tunneling skylar 



Spoiler


----------



## Bluwiikoon

Bruh


----------



## Trebek

yo wait real question

how did rari know to claim ILS’s cat


----------



## qenya

Oh yeah, rari's epic pocketing skills 100% carried us through the game. Without her there's no earthly way we would've survived this long.


----------



## kyeugh

i'm not even mad rari is mafia because i had several irl days to come to terms with that
i just can't believe that pretty much every single person had a dark fishing brothers tinfoil but we were all like "eh... nahhhh"


----------



## Trebek

didn’t keldeo bring it up first? incredible tbh


----------



## Trebek

and we all sorta vibed with bfree being actually copchecked for a day and no one bothered to correct it

i knew something was up


jk i didn’t oof


----------



## qenya

Trebek said:


> yo wait real question
> 
> how did rari know to claim ILS’s cat


We figured out pretty early on that the 14 power roles corresponded with the 14 main cast members on the Cats! (2019) wiki. We already knew most of them from a combination of claims, neighbourising and just knowing our own roles. That left us with four possibilities for fakeclaiming, and we knew that Seshas and ILS each had one of those and were already dead, so we decided it was worth the risk to try and claim one of them.


----------



## Trebek

kokorico said:


> Trebek said:
> 
> 
> 
> yo wait real question
> 
> how did rari know to claim ILS’s cat
> 
> 
> 
> We figured out pretty early on that the 14 power roles corresponded with the 14 main cast members on the Cats! (2019) wiki. We already knew most of them from a combination of claims, neighbourising and just knowing our own roles. That left us with four possibilities for fakeclaiming, and we knew that Seshas and ILS each had one of those and were already dead, so we decided it was worth the risk to try and claim one of them.
Click to expand...

what a power move tbhtbh

i’m not even angry about that


----------



## qenya

kokorico said:


> Seshas and ILS each had one of those


*Seshas, ILS and Tofu


----------



## mewtini

Trebek said:


> didn’t keldeo bring it up first? incredible tbh


in neighbor chat rari was like “lol what if keldeo only brought it up to discredit the theory” and i was like :O

if i’d taken her theorizing more seriously i ironically might have been able to solve the game hahahaha


----------



## Bluwiikoon

@rari_teh Wig deployed!


Great work on the masterplays! Y'all sure got me 

_And I was vanilla town the whole time-_

(Also I forgot it was EoD because I was playing Wii bowling I'm sorry ;o;)


----------



## Trebek

Bluwiikoon said:


> @rari_teh Wig deployed!
> 
> View attachment 640
> Great work on the masterplays! Y'all sure got me
> 
> _And I was vanilla town the whole time-_
> 
> (Also I forgot it was EoD because I was playing Wii bowling I'm sorry ;o;)


honestly i could go for some wii bowling rn

wii sports mafia when


----------



## mewtini

Trebek said:


> wii sports mafia when


i call the best character that there is:


----------



## Trebek

mewtini said:


> Trebek said:
> 
> 
> 
> wii sports mafia when
> 
> 
> 
> i call the best character that there is:
Click to expand...

he’s the godfather obviously


----------



## mewtini

Trebek said:


> he’s the godfather obviously


karma for me getting bamboozled by macavity himself >:(


----------



## Trebek

mewtini said:


> Trebek said:
> 
> 
> 
> he’s the godfather obviously
> 
> 
> 
> karma for me getting bamboozled by macavity himself >:(
Click to expand...

third times the charm


----------



## Novae

I can't wait to bamboozle all of you someday


----------



## Trebek

Mist1422 said:


> I can't wait to bamboozle all of you someday


i can't wait to get through a game without being bamboozled :(


----------



## JackPK

*A quick postmortem:*

This was a lot of fun, y'all! I have to say I was almost constantly at the edge of my seat, and over the course of the game there were several points where I went back and forth between being sure that one faction or the other was set for certain victory. Both sides played very impressively.

As I mentioned in passing in graveyard chat, the main function of having two neighborizers was intended to be the development of duelling towncores, where the town would have to figure out which towncore was more trustworthy. Unfortunately, that didn't happen — Seshas had the bad luck of neighborizing rari N0, which tipped the scum off and led them to kill Seshas ASAP to prevent the rest of the town from finding out there were two neighborizers. This, I think, ultimately tilted the information flow of the game a little too much in the scum's favor and played a big part in allowing the scum to clinch a win. On the other hand, I can't think of what I would have done differently, since any method of mechanically guiding the town neighborizer away from scum on N0 would have implicitly turned the neighborizer into a pseudo-inspection role, which was the complete opposite of how I wanted the role to work. I guess I just have to chalk this particular oddity up to swinginess.

The one thing I wish I could get a do-over on is writing the text of the Necromancer role. I will be the first to admit it was sloppy and I didn't think through it well enough. In retrospect, instead of the vague "at any time during the game" phrasing, I should have been clearer about what I intended, which was to express "you have the option to use this on any night, but you aren't obligated to use it on any particular night." That's my fault for not giving that text a closer proofread before sending out role PMs. I also think I fumbled the one-shot nature — I wasn't aware that the role is typically one-successful-shot, so I treated it as analogous to each of the JOAT's individual shots, which I'd already established as being lost when roleblocked. I must apologize to kyeugh for how these fumbles affected her in particular and caused unintended ways for the other players to call out aspects of her roleclaim as unusual and fake-sounding.

Finally, I have to bookend this game by giving another enormous thank-you to @Eifie for helping me work out the setup and troubleshoot it. In particular, she suggested the neighborizers and rolecop, which turned out to be pivotal to the game.

Thank you all so much for participating! Hope to see y'all again in the next game~


----------



## Trebek

JackPK said:


> As I mentioned in passing in graveyard chat, the main function of having two neighborizers was intended to be the development of duelling towncores, where the town would have to figure out which towncore was more trustworthy. Unfortunately, that didn't happen — Seshas had the bad luck of neighborizing rari N0, which tipped the scum off and led them to kill Seshas ASAP to prevent the rest of the town from finding out there were two neighborizers. This, I think, ultimately tilted the information flow of the game a little too much in the scum's favor and played a big part in allowing the scum to clinch a win. On the other hand, I can't think of what I would have done differently, since any method of mechanically guiding the town neighborizer away from scum on N0 would have implicitly turned the neighborizer into a pseudo-inspection role, which was the complete opposite of how I wanted the role to work. I guess I just have to chalk this particular oddity up to swinginess.


I definitely agree that it shouldn't have been set up any differently, sometimes RNG just does that :( sometimes a neighborizer accidentally hits the mafia, and on the flip side sometimes the cop finds a mafia the first night

definitely emo about my personal play, but it was a very well set up game! <3


----------



## Zori

wpwp wolves tbh


----------



## I liek Squirtles

Boooo man I was so happy when ultracool got yeeted yesterDay. Gg maf, that was masterful


----------



## I liek Squirtles

Trebek said:


> yo wait real question
> 
> how did rari know to claim ILS’s cat


Wait what I missed this, when did rari claim munkustrap


----------



## Zori

Espurr gang


----------



## rari_teh

I liek Squirtles said:


> Trebek said:
> 
> 
> 
> yo wait real question
> 
> how did rari know to claim ILS’s cat
> 
> 
> 
> Wait what I missed this, when did rari claim munkustrap
Click to expand...

i was macavity, leader of the mafia and scum limited neighbourizer! seshas was a town limited neighbourizer who had the bad luck of picking me for D1 (that’s why she got nk’d). kokorico deduced that the town neighbourizer must’ve been the leader of the jellicles, as i am the leader of the mafia and the mafia’s counterpart of seshas’ cat. koko was wrong, but fortunately the real munkustrap was already dead

fun fact: for the most part we assumed that seshas was old deuteronomy… until qva claimed od to me in the private chat. things could have gone terribly wrong for me if mewtini ever asked for my catname in the private comm

other fun fact: a name that was tossed up and down in the scumchat as a probably secure fakeclaim was syllabub/vt… imagine our faces @Trebek 



Seshas said:


> Espurr gang


espurr gang… :((


----------



## mewtini

rari_teh said:


> things could have gone terribly wrong for me if mewtini ever asked for my catname in the private comm


*i can't believe i never thought to do this*
FUCK it literally never occurred to me


----------



## rari_teh

mewtini said:


> rari_teh said:
> 
> 
> 
> things could have gone terribly wrong for me if mewtini ever asked for my catname in the private comm
> 
> 
> 
> *i can't believe i never thought to do this*
> FUCK it literally never occurred to me
Click to expand...

to be fair, neither did skylar :P


----------



## Zori

rari_teh said:


> mewtini said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rari_teh said:
> 
> 
> 
> things could have gone terribly wrong for me if mewtini ever asked for my catname in the private comm
> 
> 
> 
> *i can't believe i never thought to do this*
> FUCK it literally never occurred to me
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> to be fair, neither did skylar :P
Click to expand...

and neither did you


----------



## Trebek

rari_teh said:


> other fun fact: a name that was tossed up and down in the scumchat as a probably secure fakeclaim was syllabub/vt… imagine our faces @Trebek


bro that wouldve been my shining moment

instead i get this :(


----------



## rari_teh

Seshas said:


> rari_teh said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> mewtini said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rari_teh said:
> 
> 
> 
> things could have gone terribly wrong for me if mewtini ever asked for my catname in the private comm
> 
> 
> 
> *i can't believe i never thought to do this*
> FUCK it literally never occurred to me
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> to be fair, neither did skylar :P
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> and neither did you
Click to expand...

omg. how did this not occur to me lmao


----------



## Tangrowth

I was wondering what my UT would be, then I realized. Heh.


----------



## qenya

UT?


----------



## Tangrowth

kokorico said:


> UT?


Oh, I mean, undertitle.


----------



## qenya

M Plus 7 said:


> kokorico said:
> 
> 
> 
> UT?
> 
> 
> 
> Oh, I mean, undertitle.
Click to expand...

Oh, right.

I was going to go for "cockblocker" but I chickened out.


----------



## Trebek

kokorico said:


> M Plus 7 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> kokorico said:
> 
> 
> 
> UT?
> 
> 
> 
> Oh, I mean, undertitle.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Oh, right.
> 
> I was going to go for "cockblocker" but I chickened out.
Click to expand...

anything is possible if you truly believe


----------



## Novae

Seshas said:


> Espurr gang


every squad got the:
cute one
psychopath


----------

