# Pokémafia - Super Mystery Dungeon



## Zori (Sep 19, 2022)

*Night 0*







_They soon parted ways with their partner and headed back to Nuzleaf's house to sleep. They thought about sneaking in, but Nuzleaf was probably out still, and even if he wasn't he probably wouldn't mind. They didn't envy having Carracosta as a parent.
The door creaked open to darkness and silence. They went to their bed and curled up in it.
The blue light crept in at their closed eyes. The stillness of the night air only aggravated it...

---

"I, the Dashing Wanderer, have lead the Expedition Society to Serene Village!"
The group laughed while they merrily set up their tents under the starry sky._​
*Rolecards are going out shortly.
Night 0 will start in roughly 1 hour, and last 48 hours.
Day 1 will begin on Wednesday at 19:00 UTC.*


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## Zori (Sep 19, 2022)

*Night 0 begins officially. It will end in 48 hours.*



Spoiler: Pings



@M&F 
@JackPK 
@Zero Moment 
@Novae 
@haneko 
@Herbe 
@RedneckPhoenix 
@qenya


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## Zori (Sep 21, 2022)

*Day 1*







_Fennekin woke up to a dim periwinkle sky outside their window._
(I can probably sleep a bit more before school... It's not like I'll miss Riolu banging on my door anyways...)

_---

When they opened their eyes again, sunlight streamed through the window. The leaves' shadows danced across the floor.
They groggily lifted their head out of bed._
(I'm late! I knew I shouldn't have gone back to sleep...)
_They bolted to the door. Nuzleaf wasn't home, but that didn't come as much of a surprise anymore._
(The sun still isn't over there when I cross the bridge. Maybe if I sprint all-out, I can get there in ti-)
_They collided directly with Lombre's back, knocking both of them into the grass in the middle of the town square. They furiously apologized and braced to be scolded, but when they opened their eyes, Lombre was standing up, turned away from them. Their confusion was interrupted by a shout.

"You wrote this, didn't you?"

They saw Roselia, standing in front of Shelmet and waving a piece of paper in front of his face. Shelmet, eyes downturned, remained silent. She read from the paper.

"How many players are either aligned with the Dark or capable of winning alongside the Dark? Sound familiar?"

The rest of the adults stood transfixed in a circle around the two, silently watching them. Nobody dared intervene. An eerie silence fell over the town.

"For Arceus' sake, say something! Answer me!"
Roselia pulled one of her roses back, then mercilessly struck Shelmet with a Vine Whip. Many faces twisted into grimaces and winces, but nobody said a word. 

Something blocked their view of the scene. They heard Carracosta's voice in a whisper. "You should go to school." 
His voice dropped off awkwardly for a moment. "This isn't something that a kid like you should be seeing."

They plodded along the path up to the school. The adults were not the best at hiding things: something had clearly happened, but they didn't know what. They decided that they would talk it over with Riolu and the others at the school when they got there._​*Nobody has died.

The following rolecard has been discarded.*


Spoiler: Shelmet



*Shelmet
Serene Village Vanguard*



You are *Shelmet, Serene Village Vanguard.* You win when you reach parity with the *Light* while at least one *Dark *player is alive.



*Day 1 begins, and will last 48 hours (and 5 minutes) unless a 24 hour extension is voted on.
Night 1 will likely begin Friday, 19:00 UTC.*



Spoiler: Pings



@M&F
@JackPK
@Zero Moment
@Novae
@haneko
@Herbe
@RedneckPhoenix
@qenya


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## Zero Moment (Sep 21, 2022)




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## Novae (Sep 21, 2022)

hi y’all! excited to be here

slank cover that i have just moved into college and am adjusting so won’t be around much


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## qenya (Sep 21, 2022)

hello i am here, like two hours late

glad i didn't miss anything important lol


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## RedneckPhoenix (Sep 21, 2022)

hmmm.


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## JackPK (Sep 21, 2022)

rolecard was "discarded"... honestly not sure whether to take that as a mechanical thing (we didn't have enough players sign up so X role wasn't filled) or a flavor thing (shelmet evolves by discarding its shell to become accelgor)

as eifie I'm sure would say, not worth the spec either way, probably


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## JackPK (Sep 21, 2022)

also hi everyone, glad to see nothing tragic has happened overnight. lets keep it up and get this bread xoxo


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## M&F (Sep 21, 2022)

I wonder if we got a successful block on the nightkill quite this early? that's optimistic, but not altogether impossible -- and a little less improbable than it might normally be, given that we're running on a smaller player total than Zori seems to have intended for this setup


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## RedneckPhoenix (Sep 21, 2022)

gonna tentatively place a vote on *herbe* for now, fulfill the quota


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## RedneckPhoenix (Sep 21, 2022)

people say things and talk and shit i'll read it on my break


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## M&F (Sep 21, 2022)

so, are we in for another round of backstage shenanigans abruptly coming to light on D1, or is that vote just for a laff?


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## Novae (Sep 22, 2022)

i hardclaim gay


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## M&F (Sep 22, 2022)

Novae said:


> i hardclaim gay


I find it hard to believe zori would put such a ridiculously overpowered role in her setup.


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## RedneckPhoenix (Sep 22, 2022)

my role is "you choose a player, if they try to kill someone you roleblock them and they learn your name, if not nothing happens, and you can't target the same person twice in a row"

and, y'know, tradition, used it on herbe, who i predict will Not Say Anything abt being blocked


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## Herbe (Sep 22, 2022)

you are the absolute worst yknow that right


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## Herbe (Sep 22, 2022)

gimme a minute to deal with this i gotta get off my damn mobileposting scenario


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## RedneckPhoenix (Sep 22, 2022)

it didn't specify mafia kills so i guess it would work on a vig or an sk or whatever but shrug


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## RedneckPhoenix (Sep 22, 2022)

i'm pancham, who's apparently a bully and a friend of shelmet's but i haven't fuckin played smd in ages and fuck my break's over see you in 3 hours


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## Herbe (Sep 22, 2022)

alright i think *rnp* is the poisoner and made some bullshit up about that role - i mean come on. not being able to target the same person twice in a row and yet having your roleblocker identity totally blown open (while Knowing that you're blocked) without having any definite knowledge of if your roleblock worked or not? like yeah the no kills thing is a factor so like you would know that way hypothetically but it just seems like a fantastic way to get killed the next day.

anyway I'm Jirachi I'm the oracle and I got a poem last night about not just worrying about night kills but also that there's a poisoner out there. and i Did get the "rnp visited you last night" message so i'm willing to bet it's a poisoner role that can be used instead of the nightkill that reveals poisoner identity to debuff it or something


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## Herbe (Sep 22, 2022)

excellent job getting ahead of the narrative though darling very 4d chess of you


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## Herbe (Sep 22, 2022)

Herbe said:


> alright i think *rnp* is the poisoner and made some bullshit up about that role - i mean come on. not being able to target the same person twice in a row and yet having your roleblocker identity totally blown open (while Knowing that you're blocked) without having any definite knowledge of if your roleblock worked or not? like yeah the no kills thing is a factor so like you would know that way hypothetically but it just seems like a fantastic way to get killed the next day.


this is me mechanically trying to poke holes in this because fundamentally i know he is lying about his role so he's gotta have some reason to be lying.


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## Herbe (Sep 22, 2022)

god there's just no world where i survive to day two is there. either i get voted out today or poisoned and die tomorrow night or i get nightkilled tomorrow to frame RNP by my poisoner accusation if by some world that's what's goin on. (which.... i mean he's demonstrably lying about Something here at the end of the day so scenario 3 is a long shot but like. point is im dying.) its a shame cause like i fucking love the oracle role


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## Novae (Sep 22, 2022)

same as it ever was


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## Herbe (Sep 22, 2022)

my poem also mentioned quartz lens/ infectious stones, rocks for the record


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## M&F (Sep 22, 2022)

the two of yall sure have an idea of what constitutes flirting, you know that?

anyway, here we go again. from the top...
-RNP is claiming roleblocker, with some specific stipulations. ostensibly: he can't pick the same target consecutively; he can _only_ block killing actions; and if he does block a kill, the target... well, "learns his name", but that's not altogether totally specific. like, I can't tell if the message the target would be getting is "you have been targeted by RNP", or "you have been roleblocked by RNP", or even "you have been roleblocked by RNP right on your kill action". or just "RNP". that's almost certainly not it but it'd be funny as hell-- you roll up into the night like whaddup I got a kill and the GM just turns your way and says "no. RNP."
-Herbe is putting up a contradictory claim; they're claiming oracle, which would lack a kill action, and would also most likely be able to tell pretty easily if they had in fact been roleblocked in a given night (they wouldn't be receiving info in that case). they're claiming that they nonetheless did "learn RNP's name" last night -- specifically, that they got an "RNP targeted you" message.
-Herbe is also claiming that the information they got last night was... in the form of a poem... about quartz lens and poisonous stones? (istfg Zori--) telling them that, in addition to the typical nightkill, we're potentially dealing with a poisoner. Herbe is furthermore theorizing that RNP is this poisoner, that the namedrop situation is most likely the cost of doing business that way, and that RNP is preemptively pushing for a lynch in order to get ahead of Herbe claiming to have received that message.

anyway, having summarized it, I think I'll get to trying to reason my way through these claims in my next post


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## Novae (Sep 22, 2022)

i believe herbe because of them saying they got the message from rnp

i don't necessarily disbelieve rnp due to this


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## M&F (Sep 22, 2022)

well then, let's have a good look at what we have here in our palms, shall we?

RNP's claim is, for the most part, actually not all that implausible. a roleblocker that _only_ blocks kills may seem overly narrow, but for a _town_ roleblocker, that's ultimately a net positive -- means you can blindfire the power without taking on much of a risk of interfering with useful town powers, while retaining the ability to stop what's usually the scum team's most crucial ability. conversely, not being able to target players consecutively isn't an entirely unfair tradeoff for that; what it essentially does is take away your ability to completely lock down a particular mafiosx's kills by targeting them persistently. still though, the part where your target _also_ gets a friendly little note about your actions is where I start to think I may be looking at one too many added stipulations for totally fair plausibility here -- and lo, that's also precisely the part of the role that even Herbe is corroborating here, so it'd be a safe assumption to make that it's legitimate, whatever else about the role is or isn't.

(it's also worth noting that RNP is flavorclaiming Pancham, and that discarded PM flavor we have on our palms from the Day text is Pancham's bestie, Shelmet, as a scum role. I don't think that should go unnoted, but I also don't think it necessarily, or even probably, amounts to something.)

Herbe's claims, on the other hand, are frankly raising a couple of red flags for me. I'm not going to shade just the concept of an oracle that receives information in vague fanciful forms, but the thing that's tripping me up here is that Herbe hasn't led by claiming what _question_ they asked to receive that answer. now, the other part of it all is strictly speculation, which means it's passible of simply coming from a place of being town but also wrong, but the explicative they've offered up to possibly explain RNP's actions isn't really holding water. see, a regular poison kill is close to on par with a regular vannila kill in terms of efficacy -- the delay can be costly, but it can also help to throw off the town powers' efforts at identifying or preventing the kill. the added stipulation of notifying the victim of the poisoning, though, assuming it's the only added stipulation, makes this a strictly _inferior_ method of killing, as it potentially draws attention from the selfsame town powers that it's supposed to be evading. I can't imagine that being a favourable choice in lieu of a regular nightkill. most crucially, though... _what kind of mafia poisoner unpromptedly attempts to lynch their poison victim_? that player is about to die anyway!

so yeah -- so far, what this looks like to me is that RNP might actually be telling the truth this time, and Herbe might be offering up a hasty emergency fakeclaim to stay above the water. still, we have the rest of the Day to keep the discussion going.

(plus, it might not be worthwhile to discard the possibility that one or both of the lovebirds here are simply not playing to their wincon. for starters, this might just be RNP's idea of payback for PLA Mafia just now--)


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## RedneckPhoenix (Sep 22, 2022)

hey zori you forgot the rule about screenshotting/cping role pm's 

i'm not gonna do it unless you say that's intentional but I Was Tempted


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## RedneckPhoenix (Sep 22, 2022)

anyways the specific language, paraphrased slightly for rules' sake, is "if they're performing an action that would kill someone else, they'll be stopped from performing it, but they'll know that you visited them."


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## RedneckPhoenix (Sep 22, 2022)

idk if "someone else" means "not me, rnp" or "not the target"


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## Zori (Sep 22, 2022)

as a general rule you shouldnt copy paste or screenshot conversation messages etc etc


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## Herbe (Sep 22, 2022)

M&F said:


> but the thing that's tripping me up here is that Herbe hasn't led by claiming what _question_ they asked to receive that answer.


i don't ask questions (presumably so that zori can share what she planned to share without dealing with me throwing curveballs or anything), i just learn something about the game every night. also the action /can/ be roleblocked so like rnp is not a roleblocker.

anyway i asked clarification and my poems in particular can be shared verbatim but not other parts of pms 

_Beware not bloodied blade alone:
 But the quartz lens marred with infectious stone.
Beware the truth that the rock doth kill:
 And "good news" is a herald for the ill._


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## Herbe (Sep 22, 2022)

i do trust mf to a certain extent with her Knowledge of balance and such so there's a chance i'm just wrong here, or maybe i was trying to connect the dots that i saw super hard without looking for other answers. conf bias and all that. point is that rnp is not a roleblocker and i didn't use an action (the info comes to me passively even though it can be blocked or messed with)


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## JackPK (Sep 22, 2022)

generally here M&F is persuasive to me (as always) and I am trying to logic things out without being influenced by her, but of course that's difficult to impossible

biggest point, I think, is that a poisoner is basically certainly not going to try to start a yeet train on their poison target. so I think that says for sure that RNP is not a poisoner (and is not ingroup mafia with someone else who is a poisoner, not that that's exactly relevant to this debate)

_*IF*_ herbe's poem is real, that does point to a poisoner existing, though, so in the hypothetical world that herbe's poem is real, that would indicate that either the hypo!notRNP!poisoner is 3p and we separately have a blocked/healed mafia kill that we don't know about, or the hypo!notRNP!poisoner is mafia which clears RNP from being mafia (he could still be 3p but shrug who knows)

meanwhile basically all that's been "confirmed" about RNP's role is that it announced itself to herbe overNight -- which honestly could be anything and iirc town!RNP has a track record of fibbing about his role for benign reasons, so honestly I'm not sold on the weird roleblocker claim but I don't think that my thinking RNP could be fibbing necessarily means he'd be anti-town for doing it

tl;dr at this point I feel like RNP is more likely town than not in the sum of all these scenarios, whereas herbe could go either way. this could be v/v spidermans pointing at each other or it could be v/w... it's probably not w/w wolf theater? but one or both could very well be 3p resulting in this being antitown/antitown theater. idk

the day phase is still early, I'm not pressed to place my vote yet. I want to see how things continue to play out here

incidentally @haneko you haven't posted yet! and @Zero Moment @qenya y'all haven't posted since the start of the day! I'm interested to hear the three of y'all's thoughts on this


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## M&F (Sep 22, 2022)

Herbe said:


> _And "good news" is a herald for the ill._











JackPK said:


> generally here M&F is persuasive to me (as always) and I am trying to logic things out without being influenced by her, but of course that's difficult to impossible


that's cute that you think you can resist my power, mortal.

anyway, a role that passively receives random setup information without inputting questions... I don't think it's typically referred to as an _oracle_. like, I don't think there's a typical name for it regardless, so Zori might just have branded it as a variant oracle; still, any terminological imprecision here could be a symptom of a claim being made up on the spot. ... I sure enjoy playing mafia as someone who has a hard time discerning malicious intent-



JackPK said:


> incidentally @haneko you haven't posted yet! and @Zero Moment @qenya y'all haven't posted since the start of the day! I'm interested to hear the three of y'all's thoughts on this


and yeah, speak up yall! like, I don't think that'd be the best way to settle this, but we _could_ theorically shelve the RNP v Herbe situation for one phase just to see if someone actually dies of poison... so I can and will start pressuring yall inactives if I feel it'd be productive,


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## Herbe (Sep 22, 2022)

it wasn't branded as an oracle that was just what I thought the role was called


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## Herbe (Sep 22, 2022)

i'm jirachi so i'm the astronomer that looks at the stars (is she trying to give the role name the astronomer?) otherwise i didn't get an actual role title. just got told what the role does which is lets me recieve some cryptic info on the game every night. cause i'm looking at the stars and figuring stuff out that way


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## Herbe (Sep 22, 2022)

if i don't die of poison i at least think that there was a poisoner active last night and that's why we don't have a kill.


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## Herbe (Sep 22, 2022)

(i didn't go double check my pm before talking about stuff and i dismissed astronomer as flavor stuff since i didn't recognize it and register it as A Role Name... it's Expedition Society Astronomer so i really did just read it as flavor.) also for the record if i was fakeclaiming/mafia this would be the worst most panicked lying i've ever done where i really wouldn't have that much reason to panic with an entire day ahead of me and not that serious of a push on me

like seriously i am just completely fucking floundering but that's borne from me telling the truth in a scattered not-well-planned-out way tbh.... which we will all see confirmed when i flip town/talk in the postgame. aurgh. like i know none of this is a good defense i am some degree of self aware

anyway rnp is lying about something. increasingly suspicious this really is payback for PLA. *unvote* bc i think keeping him and me alive is worth the solve for tomorrow (and hey if i survive i have an additional lore drop which would be confirmed when y'all kill me tomorrow and i flip town)


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## RedneckPhoenix (Sep 22, 2022)

Herbe said:


> _Beware not bloodied blade alone:
> But the quartz lens marred with infectious stone.
> Beware the truth that the rock doth kill:
> And "good news" is a herald for the ill._


i don't doubt that this was a part of herbe's role pm but herbe you do know that a) the way characters "die" in smd is by turning to stone, which was lined out in the sign-up post, and b) quartz lenses are used for telescopes which an astronomer would have

did... did you just post your flavor, herbe.


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## Herbe (Sep 22, 2022)

RedneckPhoenix said:


> Herbe said:
> 
> 
> > _Beware not bloodied blade alone:
> ...


if i did zori would have modkilled me or will modkill me. i asked and she said i could post my poem result verbatim but like. no i didn't know that and no i didn't remember reading that in the sign up post because i am bad at paying attention to things.

I also think that that could indicate that i was poisoned by someone this night


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## Herbe (Sep 22, 2022)

it wasn't part of my role pm !! it was a result from last night !!


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## Herbe (Sep 22, 2022)

i feel like i'm watching myself crash a car in a dream and the steering wheel isn't working.


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## qenya (Sep 22, 2022)

JackPK said:


> incidentally @haneko you haven't posted yet! and @Zero Moment @qenya y'all haven't posted since the start of the day! I'm interested to hear the three of y'all's thoughts on this


i have been awork, sorry! but i have tomorrow off so i can make it to the end of the Day without any other hiatuses (hiati?)

it's probably just as well i was absent though since it was an absolute rollercoaster reading this page with RNP and Herbe dripfeeding info about their roles... i think i would have jumped to a hasty and wrong conclusion if I'd only had half of it to go on.

anyway. fundamentally - RNP and Herbe are contradicting each other, right? RNP says his role only informs his targets if they would be killing someone that night; Herbe says they were informed of the targeting even though they weren't killing anyone. so either one of them is lying or a third person is fucking with them (which I think we can assume implies a scum role since otherwise they would have cleared it up by now? proooobably?)

i don't see how Herbe could be lying because RNP had already explained his role before Herbe came in-thread, so if they _had_ tried to kill someone N0 they could just have... not mentioned receiving the message. RNP lying to frame Herbe seems weird too, though, because his deception would be immediately obvious as soon as Herbe flipped green; I think the only situation where it would make sense is if the mafia were confident about being able to win immediately on N1 or otherwise protecting RNP from the D2 vote somehow.

so that leaves the "third role shenangians" option. but i'm having trouble with that too because I have no idea what that could be. it can't just be some kind of redirector because Herbe was not, in fact, roleblocked. the only thing I can think of is a role that causes someone's night action to announce itself to its targets for the duration of that night, used on RNP. but it seems like quite a stretch to have two roles that would naturally interfere with each other like that in an 8-person setup... _(Eifie's voice echoes: "stop doing setup spec")_

so yeah that was a lot of words to say i am undecided so far. i will mull it over some more.


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## qenya (Sep 22, 2022)

JackPK said:


> biggest point, I think, is that a poisoner is basically certainly not going to try to start a yeet train on their poison target. so I think that says for sure that RNP is not a poisoner (and is not ingroup mafia with someone else who is a poisoner, not that that's exactly relevant to this debate)
> 
> _*IF*_ herbe's poem is real, that does point to a poisoner existing, though, so in the hypothetical world that herbe's poem is real, that would indicate that either the hypo!notRNP!poisoner is 3p and we separately have a blocked/healed mafia kill that we don't know about, or the hypo!notRNP!poisoner is mafia which clears RNP from being mafia (he could still be 3p but shrug who knows)


oh and yeah agree with all of this (except i don't think a third-party player is likely with only 8 players; I know zori said survivors might exist in the signup thread, but in her shoes that's one of the first i'd cut if downsizing from 10 players to 8)


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## Zero Moment (Sep 22, 2022)

tbh I feel like Herbe's roleposting is too detailed to be born from the aether (and if not, good job!) so I don't feel any inclination to vote for them.
On the other hand I feel like RNP's shtick has gotten stale and I'm kinda lowkey peeved about This Shit Happening Again. Not enough to put forth a vote but like.


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## RedneckPhoenix (Sep 22, 2022)

I have been helpfully informed that despite language indicating to the contrary, my role will inform a player of my visit regardless of whether they were attempting a kill. I will consider the further ramifications of this revelation while performing duties at my place of employment.


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## qenya (Sep 22, 2022)




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## Novae (Sep 22, 2022)

traditional mafia gaming i see


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## Novae (Sep 22, 2022)

*Zero Moment*

hello


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## Novae (Sep 22, 2022)

*unvote*

nvm i'm gonna try reengaging again later


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## Herbe (Sep 22, 2022)

RedneckPhoenix said:


> I have been helpfully informed that despite language indicating to the contrary, my role will inform a player of my visit regardless of whether they were attempting a kill. I will consider the further ramifications of this revelation while performing duties at my place of employment.


fascinating development and i don’t think you’d be incentivized to do this here if you were W so i townread you now that i have no reason to think youre mechlying 

i do still think there’s a poisoner out there fwiw which would explain no kill tonight


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## haneko (Sep 22, 2022)

hi everyone, just trying to wrap my head around herbe/rnp-posting  sorry if i am not particularly active, but i definitely want to try to understand the game more than i did last time.

TL;DR I'm more inclined to believe Herbe than RNP



M&F said:


> Herbe is putting up a contradictory claim; they're claiming oracle, which would lack a kill action


The roles in this game seem pretty non-traditional to me; I wouldn't rule out an oracle having the ability to kill, or block, or anything else. 

On the topic of Herbe, I think the only thing we can gain from the poem right now is that there's a poisoner around. "Quartz lens" does seem most likely to belong to Herbe the astronomer, tbh, but it could also just be flavour?

My thoughts on the poem:

_Beware not bloodied blade alone: = _Mafia nightkills aren't the only way to die
_
But the quartz lens marred with infectious stone. =_
This is the most ambiguous line to me. If RNP is a poisoner, and the quartz lens symbolises Herbe - the astronomer - this could symbolise Herbe getting poisoned.
_
Beware the truth that the rock doth kill: = _People who die are "turned to stone"_
And "good news" is a herald for the ill. = _People who get visited will get poisoned.

Based on the last two lines it seems like getting turned to rock is a slow process... that seems consistent with the effects of poisoners being delayed. And if Herbe wrote this himself, then, of course it's consistent with his claims... but the level of desperation in his posts seems like he's not lying. 



RedneckPhoenix said:


> I have been helpfully informed that despite language indicating to the contrary, my role will inform a player of my visit regardless of whether they were attempting a kill.


This seems like 1) an easy thing to make up, 2) very fishy from a gameplay perspective; since I can't see how that would help a town!roleblocker!RNP stay alive... RNP, do you get informed whether or not your roleblock has succeeded the same night you perform the block, or do you have to wait until the day?

Targets being informed of a visit feels a lot more appropriate for a poisoner since it would set up breadcrumbs for villagers to catch a hostile role.

Placing a vote on *RNP* for Pressure (tm)


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## haneko (Sep 22, 2022)

Oh yeah, the other meanings to the 2nd line of the poem i could think of were:


Herbe has the ability to perform kills - maybe his lens can turn people to stone? I feel like there's less evidence for this than RNP the poisoner
There is somebody with a role that gives people contagious stone - so like, if their target interacts with somebody else, that somebody else gets turned to stone, or something like that. (if anyone has played SMD and knows lore that confirms this please say)
I just feel like infectious is a really weird way to describe stone.
Quartz lens could refer to someone other than Herbe... maybe there's a Diancie/Carbink in our midst?


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## Herbe (Sep 22, 2022)

haneko said:


> _And "good news" is a herald for the ill. = _People who get visited will get poisoned.


you've got a good potential take on this for sure but i did think that this was a reference to the "good news guys" daystart meme although it could definitely be deeper than that


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## RedneckPhoenix (Sep 23, 2022)

targets being informed of a visit for a poisoner equals a dead poisoner d2


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## RedneckPhoenix (Sep 23, 2022)

haneko said:


> And if Herbe wrote this himself,


themself


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## Herbe (Sep 23, 2022)

i mean sure yeah but that's only if a) the person connects the dots (and normally people wouldn't be given the poem w the info cause that's my role) and b) the person says something in the thread about it and c) town correctly connects that to the death the next night/doesn't attribute it to other things

no longer accusing you of poisoner fwiw


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## Zori (Sep 23, 2022)

*Vote Count

Herbe (1) *- RedeckPhoenix
*RedneckPhoenix (1) *- haneko


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## RedneckPhoenix (Sep 23, 2022)

what was i saying

oh yeah i still think it's herbe unless literally anyone else can explain the nokill to save a town


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## RedneckPhoenix (Sep 23, 2022)

theoretically save a town? save a theoretical town? whatever


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## RedneckPhoenix (Sep 23, 2022)

also also i totally wouldn't put it above herbe to just write poetry to try to "prove" oracleness like did you forget the literal inciting event of our dating was a rap battle


----------



## RedneckPhoenix (Sep 23, 2022)

i got a poem last night that proves zori was lying and there is totally an alien in this game see

_The light of ruin, brought up from rest,
Whilst rain and snow swirled
Beware the monster, the vermin, the pest
Who came from another world_


----------



## Novae (Sep 23, 2022)

RedneckPhoenix said:


> what was i saying
> 
> oh yeah i still think it's herbe unless literally anyone else can explain the nokill to save a town


could just not have an n0 kill since 8p


----------



## RedneckPhoenix (Sep 23, 2022)

no rule against n0 kills in signups, next


----------



## RedneckPhoenix (Sep 23, 2022)

oh also unless i wake up in the middle of the night day i will not be awake for eod. or sod. such is the way of the night shift


----------



## haneko (Sep 23, 2022)

i am actually getting whiplash from this

*unvote rnp*


----------



## haneko (Sep 23, 2022)

Herbe said:


> no longer accusing you of poisoner fwiw


...can you explain this? You were extremely sure RNP was lying and that they were a poisoner, then abandoned that idea very suddenly.


----------



## Novae (Sep 23, 2022)

RedneckPhoenix said:


> no rule against n0 kills in signups, next


did you miss the "since 8p" part

could have been a change in downsizing


----------



## Herbe (Sep 23, 2022)

my fucking god rnp if we’re gonna see me flip either way and i could literally Have Game Information Spoonfed To Me and you’ll see if it’s legit or not by my flip fucking kill me tomorrow and get something more out of my role at least


----------



## RedneckPhoenix (Sep 23, 2022)

Herbe said:


> my fucking god rnp if we’re gonna see me flip either way and i could literally Have Game Information Spoonfed To Me and you’ll see if it’s legit or not by my flip fucking kill me tomorrow and get something more out of my role at least


----------



## Herbe (Sep 23, 2022)

haneko said:


> Herbe said:
> 
> 
> > no longer accusing you of poisoner fwiw
> ...


yea i was connecting the dots between the poisoner-poem i got and rnps claim that people would only get successfully roleblocked and notified of his visit if they had a killing power. Since i got notified anyway i was sure he was lying and i thought i was given the Key to the situation (him being a notifying poisoner). But then he said Zori clarified that his targets are notified of him showing up either way so I do believe him that he targeted me. And mf explained that poisoner-notification would be pretty broken in typical mafia setups so (and also why would poisoner bus their target)… i was willing to look past that and confbias when rnp was Literally Lying about the situation in which i’d be notified of his visit, but it turned out to be a GM misunderstanding


----------



## Herbe (Sep 23, 2022)

really hate how this probably v/v kerfuffle took all the focus away today from anything although i guess we did get two people to talk about our roles.


----------



## Novae (Sep 23, 2022)

wheres that one post eifie made hold on


----------



## Novae (Sep 23, 2022)




----------



## Novae (Sep 23, 2022)

anyway random.org decreed that *haneko* must die


----------



## qenya (Sep 23, 2022)

yeah occam's razor is just that herbe and RNP are townies bouncing off each other... i guess RNP _could_ just have been fishing for herbe's role, but it still seems like a pretty convoluted way of going about it. maybe we can come back to him again if he tries anything similar.

i do agree with herbe's interpretation of the poem. i didn't think it even needed pointing out that "good news" seems like a reference to the "good news guys" meme but apparently it did. unfortunately if there _is_ a poisoner running around then the lack of a N0 kill is entirely worthless to us in terms of figuring out who it is

my main thought rn is that since we wasted a bunch of time figuring that out it would be a good idea to ask for an *extension*


----------



## Novae (Sep 23, 2022)

agree with the *extension*


----------



## RedneckPhoenix (Sep 23, 2022)

*no extension* chaos reigns


----------



## Novae (Sep 23, 2022)

*zero moment*

actually gonna try to elaborate on this - his earlier post just felt like kind of a token response to the herbe/rnp situation and almost felt like it was TMIing rnp town with the "not this again but not enough to vote"


----------



## RedneckPhoenix (Sep 23, 2022)

i'm going to sleep but if y'all got any sense at all herbe'll be gone by the time i wake up


----------



## Novae (Sep 23, 2022)

oh my god don't talk down to people just because they don't see what you think is obvious

you're not completely infallible


----------



## RedneckPhoenix (Sep 23, 2022)

i was just tryna talk like a cowboy but go off


----------



## Novae (Sep 23, 2022)

sorry that i'm still bitter over legends arceus i guess


----------



## Herbe (Sep 23, 2022)

*extension* pls uwu


----------



## Herbe (Sep 23, 2022)

it would have to be majority request,,,, 2 more people would need to ask extension for it granted right?


----------



## M&F (Sep 23, 2022)

hah, funny thing, I was all set up to post about how we're running out of time and we need to either decide we're going to be lynching Herbe, or if not, solving for who else it's going to be

do I really, really want an extension about it, though? ... ... well, I don't know if that'll be good for the game as a whole, but personally I could use one, as AstraZeneca is presently kicking my ass and I probably will not be able to spit out a list of reads with great speed. *extension* me, then, I suppose!

for the record, as needlessly abrasive as he's being about it, I don't disagree with RNP; we have less of a loud screaming problem considering that that contradiction between RNP and Herbe has vanished, but assuming RNP is being truthful, the facts would remain that a) RNP targeted Herbe with an anti-kill roleblock last Night.; b) no one died last night; and c) at the moment, we exclusively have Herbe's word on the matter that the absence of a kill last Night is due to a poisoner, and not a plain and simple roleblock to the head. we could, theorically, let this one sit for a while and see if someone actually dies of poison, but I think y'all know where I stand, better we actually solve for this here and now. I hear what you guys are saying about this possibly being a role that's a little too elaborate to have simply come out of Herbe making shit up, but I think that's both an overestimative of how complex the role being claimed there really is, and an underestimative of how crafty Herbe can be. (I do, at least, agree that it's sensible that Zori may have simply worked in a way to make sure there's no N0 death in order to compensate for the low player count)

in any case, though, I wanna see yalls reads. not just on RNP and Herbe, but on the public. I'll be right behind yall there, too, just... pending the amount of time it'll take me to stay focused on figuring stuff out while I'm in a state and a half


----------



## Herbe (Sep 23, 2022)

M&F said:


> we could, theorically, let this one sit for a while and see if someone actually dies of poison, but I think y'all know where I stand, better we actually solve for this here and now.


then put a vote on me *mf*!!!

yes yes my head's on the block, we still need another vote for the extension to be a majority vote, and for all intents and purposes it would be more self-preservatory for me to vote for ZM (who by the way i am not opposed to voting nor really super townread; novae's assessment works pretty well in my eyes)

but i SR mf more than ZM and yes maybe i'm being a bit OMGUS here but i think the way that she's going about this is not her town play !! i think she is looking at a situation in which there's a possible wagon heading for someone V and is nudging that along to get other people to vote without placing a vote down herself so that when i flip she can dodge some of the heat for bussing me. like the discrepancy between her words + vote placement is just really getting me. 

i also think that she's flattering me midway through as a way to keep the reasoning behind her pressure solid. she even agrees that it would make sense for zori to not put in a n0 kill to make up for low players - so why is she so set on solving me today? just because there doesn't seem to be a better option immediately available and I happened to be the one targeted by some accusations and misunderstandings of role powers? when, hey, we could wait a day, I'd be able to drop a new poem, we'd figure the roleblock and maybe solvekill me tomorrow and then you'd have a) another poem that would be confirmed by my town death (or hey!!! unconfirmed!!!!!! but still, watching me have to come up with something would still give some insight to mafia motivations if i was a scum flip!!!) and b) an idea if the poisoner is around or not. like yes looking at her facts there it's not the most unreasonable solve but the fact that she hasn't voted me about it, she's even entertaining other potential reasons, and yet still is saying that she thinks i need to go today and we shouldn't wait... yeah it just rings wrong for me.

anyway i'd like more discussion on why she thinks solving me is the best move for today and why she hasn't voted me about it if that's what she so strongly believes

also would love zm to show up too like idk if there needs to be more pressure there for any engagement to happen but still


----------



## qenya (Sep 23, 2022)

M&F said:


> assuming RNP is being truthful, the facts would remain that a) RNP targeted Herbe with an anti-kill roleblock last Night.; b) no one died last night; and c) at the moment, we exclusively have Herbe's word on the matter that the absence of a kill last Night is due to a poisoner, and not a plain and simple roleblock to the head.


the problem I have with assuming RNP v / Herbe w is that it doesn't make any sense for Herbe to have revealed that they received the targeting message from RNP. at the time they said that, we were all still under the mistaken impression that receiving that message meant you tried to use a kill action... even if they did in fact use a non-killing action and noticed the discrepancy, I don't see why they would have intentionally drawn attention to themselves


----------



## Zori (Sep 23, 2022)

*extension*

there thats 5/9

right now is a pretty inconvenient time to end day
i could but id have to skip lunch which would be unideal
might do votecounts on the road but being shuttled between appointments rigth now

*day will end in 24h 12m*


----------



## qenya (Sep 23, 2022)

i think this is what the wagons look like atm
*Herbe (1) *- RedeckPhoenix
*Novae (1)* - Zero Moment
*M&F (1)* - Herbe


----------



## qenya (Sep 23, 2022)

sorry, brainfart lol

_this_ is what the wagons look like atm :P
*Herbe (1) *- RedeckPhoenix
*Zero Moment (1)* - Novae
*M&F (1)* - Herbe


----------



## RedneckPhoenix (Sep 23, 2022)

qenya said:


> the problem I have with assuming RNP v / Herbe w is that it doesn't make any sense for Herbe to have revealed that they received the targeting message from RNP. at the time they said that, we were all still under the mistaken impression that receiving that message meant you tried to use a kill action... even if they did in fact use a non-killing action and noticed the discrepancy, I don't see why they would have intentionally drawn attention to themselves


prolly cuz i directly called herbe out and prolly cuz we're dating and prolly cuz it's funny and prolly cuz wifom reasons and prolly cuz


----------



## JackPK (Sep 23, 2022)

new tcod mafia meta: RNP and Herbe will draw attention to themselves (regardless of their alignments)


----------



## Herbe (Sep 23, 2022)

JackPK said:


> new tcod mafia meta: RNP and Herbe will draw attention to themselves (regardless of their alignments)


----------



## Herbe (Sep 23, 2022)

RedneckPhoenix said:


> qenya said:
> 
> 
> > the problem I have with assuming RNP v / Herbe w is that it doesn't make any sense for Herbe to have revealed that they received the targeting message from RNP. at the time they said that, we were all still under the mistaken impression that receiving that message meant you tried to use a kill action... even if they did in fact use a non-killing action and noticed the discrepancy, I don't see why they would have intentionally drawn attention to themselves
> ...


none of these are good reasons for that; our relationship isn’t gonna actually affect my meta that much (bar that i totally would have chosen mafia in PLA given the choice - it’s not gonna affect anything here)


----------



## M&F (Sep 24, 2022)

well, we have one read, I suppose! and everyone else is still exclusively talking about RNP and Herbe, if they're posting at all. fantastic job, everyone, we're using that extra time so productively

anyways, I'll have to gauge yet how much good faith I should actually be ascribing to that vote of Herbe's, but just ahead of anything else, it seems like there's something I'm not making myself crystal clear about here. when I say I'm intent on solving Herbe as soon as possible, I don't necessarily mean that in the sense of solving through a lynch; I mean it in the sense of properly figuring if we, collectively, believe Herbe or not. so if that's been a relentless misapplication of the terminology, well -- what can I say if not whopsie.


----------



## Zero Moment (Sep 24, 2022)

If thou continue to need mine opinion on the matter... the rnp/herbe thing is looking like a v/v situation, yes. Assuming that player action didn't prevent a kill, it's possible that the Dark players weren't able use their killing action N0. I personally amn't allowed to act until N1.


----------



## Zori (Sep 24, 2022)

*Vote Count

Herbe (1) *- RedeckPhoenix
*Zero Moment (1) *- Novae
*M&F (1) *- Herbe


----------



## Herbe (Sep 24, 2022)

M&F said:


> well, we have one read, I suppose! and everyone else is still exclusively talking about RNP and Herbe, if they're posting at all. fantastic job, everyone, we're using that extra time so productively
> 
> anyways, I'll have to gauge yet how much good faith I should actually be ascribing to that vote of Herbe's, but just ahead of anything else, it seems like there's something I'm not making myself crystal clear about here. when I say I'm intent on solving Herbe as soon as possible, I don't necessarily mean that in the sense of solving through a lynch; I mean it in the sense of properly figuring if we, collectively, believe Herbe or not. so if that's been a relentless misapplication of the terminology, well -- what can I say if not whopsie.


mmmmm... yeah that's not how i took it,,,,,,, anyway. you're not jazzed that everyone is still talking about us but you want everyone to figure out if they believe me asap? so that people will Stop Poasting About It?


----------



## Novae (Sep 24, 2022)

Zero Moment said:


> If thou continue to need mine opinion on the matter... the rnp/herbe thing is looking like a v/v situation, yes. Assuming that player action didn't prevent a kill, it's possible that the Dark players weren't able use their killing action N0. I personally amn't allowed to act until N1.


interesting, is that specific to your role? mine's allowed to act n0


----------



## JackPK (Sep 24, 2022)

Novae said:


> Zero Moment said:
> 
> 
> > If thou continue to need mine opinion on the matter... the rnp/herbe thing is looking like a v/v situation, yes. Assuming that player action didn't prevent a kill, it's possible that the Dark players weren't able use their killing action N0. I personally amn't allowed to act until N1.
> ...


same, I also was allowed to act n0 (but opted not to for Reasons fwiw)


----------



## JackPK (Sep 24, 2022)

sorting through my poe... bear with. greenest at the top, reddest at the bottom

*me*
JackPK

*(spongebob plankton's computer voice) **1% evil, 99% hot gas*
RNP
Herbe (although post #90 allllllllllmost makes me suspicious of activated alien???? god please zori don't let there already have been an activated alien this early in this game)

*townread*
qenya -- I liked the acknowledgement in #46 that she'd have jumped to a hasty conclusion with less information, and that she was not jumping to said conclusion at that point -- feels towny at an inflection point where scum could've easily tried to push

*persuasive longposts make it hard for me to distrust (I am fundamentally vulnerable in this way)*
M&F

*null*
Novae -- pressurevotes with no explanation in #52 and #78 would pinged red for me for anyone else but I feel like that kinda may just be your playstyle?
haneko -- poem analysis felt like an honest attempt at trying to be solvey but I thought that was ultimately not an avenue to solve anything imo? (eifie's voice echoes "stop trying to solve")

*light scumread*
Zero Moment -- for the same reasons highlighted by Novae in #82, which I coincidentally noted while going through the thread assembling this post before I got to #82 and remembered that oh, someone already said that


----------



## JackPK (Sep 24, 2022)

which I guess means the best place for my vote is on *Zero Moment*


----------



## Novae (Sep 24, 2022)

JackPK said:


> pressurevotes with no explanation in #52 and #78 would pinged red for me for anyone else but I feel like that kinda may just be your playstyle?


yeah no i'm just Like That

i like it less than you do


----------



## Zero Moment (Sep 24, 2022)

Novae said:


> interesting, is that specific to your role? mine's allowed to act n0


yup, instead I had to choose what was apparently some flavor last night. Won't know if it actually does anything mechanically until tonight?


----------



## Novae (Sep 24, 2022)

Zero Moment said:


> Novae said:
> 
> 
> > interesting, is that specific to your role? mine's allowed to act n0
> ...


wait do you not have an ability until then?


----------



## Zero Moment (Sep 24, 2022)

Novae said:


> wait do you not have an ability until then?


no I do, I just don't know if the choice I made is actually meaningful yet.


----------



## Novae (Sep 24, 2022)

oh

hm

*unvote*


----------



## Novae (Sep 24, 2022)

would it be too rolefishy to ask what flavor you picked

i have a guess but want to confirm


----------



## Novae (Sep 24, 2022)

actually don't answer that


----------



## Zero Moment (Sep 24, 2022)

Before you ask, no, it had nothing to do with whatever was going on with that Shelmet thing at the start of day.


----------



## Novae (Sep 24, 2022)

yeah i figured

i think i know what's going on and i probably shouldn't read into this as AI but in the condition where it is in fact meant to be and i'm blatantly ignoring it i don't want to look like a clown again


----------



## Novae (Sep 24, 2022)

actually i just remembered that zori specifically designs her games to not be flavor/mech solvable at least conventionally

so yeah this probably is a pointless line of inquiry


----------



## Novae (Sep 24, 2022)

hey @JackPK did you not factor my elaborated read on ZM into your read on me at all? if we had the same thought reading the same posts i feel like that'd be something you'd note in your read on me somewhere


----------



## RedneckPhoenix (Sep 24, 2022)

Zero Moment said:


> Novae said:
> 
> 
> > interesting, is that specific to your role? mine's allowed to act n0
> ...


----------



## RedneckPhoenix (Sep 24, 2022)

(the joke is red flags)


----------



## RedneckPhoenix (Sep 24, 2022)

i'm still sayin' it's herbe yo. occam's razor, kill got blocked. hell of a lot simpler than a poetry based Informed role being targetted by me, rnp, and the night kill not going off n0, when it's tcod tradition to mention "yo no kills n0" in the startup post if that's a thing that's happening


----------



## qenya (Sep 24, 2022)

for what it's worth I too could and did use my action on N0



JackPK said:


> god please zori don't let there already have been an activated alien this early in this game


the signup thread explicitly said no aliens and that exactly one faction would win (+/- third parties if any existed)


----------



## haneko (Sep 24, 2022)

Wow, I love trying to make an honest attempt at playing the game and have it called "stop trying to solve."

I'm gonna put a vote on *Herbe* just to see what happens. Sorry, you're going to die for the sake of info.

</salt>


----------



## Zero Moment (Sep 24, 2022)

nyeh. it's 4am and I need to go pass out. gonna drop an *abstain* here I guess. please do not run a train on me while I'm out, I'll try to make it to day end.


----------



## Zori (Sep 24, 2022)

*Vote Count

Herbe (2) *- RedeckPhoenix, haneko
*Zero Moment (1) *- JackPK
*M&F (1) *- Herbe
*abstain (1) *- Zero Moment

~4 hours left in day


----------



## Herbe (Sep 24, 2022)

if i vote for abstain does it randomize between me and abstain or does a Person Vote take precedent in that scenario

mleh. i’m gonna go to a chilifest i might be back before eod


----------



## Zori (Sep 24, 2022)

Herbe said:


> if i vote for abstain does it randomize between me and abstain or does a Person Vote take precedent in that scenario


it is randomized


----------



## JackPK (Sep 24, 2022)

haneko said:


> Wow, I love trying to make an honest attempt at playing the game and have it called "stop trying to solve."


oh god no I wasn't trying to say you shouldn't solve! I was making a joke that that's what Eifie would say since she has (memetically recently) infamously been against speculation about how games are set up. I'm personally all for solving, I just was commenting that I wasn't sure that was a particular avenue that would be fruitful for solving. I'm sorry my joke was clumsy and hurt your feelings!


----------



## JackPK (Sep 24, 2022)

Novae said:


> hey @JackPK did you not factor my elaborated read on ZM into your read on me at all? if we had the same thought reading the same posts i feel like that'd be something you'd note in your read on me somewhere


"has the same read as me" is the kind of thing that I personally don't really think factors into townread/scumread imo? since at least in theory, scum who are trying to fake being town should be volunteering plausible reads to blend in

see also: I also have M&F at neither townread nor scumread even though I've repeatedly commented I'm pocketed by her longposts


----------



## Novae (Sep 24, 2022)

bleh

i'm sketched out by zm claim and think his posts have not been that good but it seems mechanically plausible enough that i don't want to kill

killing herbe for info feels kinda weh when they feel socially towny imo

haneko's frustration at jack feels kinda towny too


----------



## Novae (Sep 24, 2022)

why am i bad at mafia now i hate it here


----------



## Herbe (Sep 24, 2022)

*abstain* rn to save my skin a little bit but i’m still out on my chili day adventure


----------



## qenya (Sep 24, 2022)

Novae said:


> why am i bad at mafia now i hate it here


mood tbh

like i mentioned at the end of the last game i played in (contest pokémafia), i am kind of tired of trying to divine things from tone, but... it's kind of hard to do anything else either on D1 when there's next to no mech, eh


----------



## qenya (Sep 24, 2022)

ok, well... I said I didn't think the world where Herbe is a wolf didn't seem to make sense, and nothing else has come to light since then, so if there are really not going to be any other viable wagons I'm going to vote *abstain* too

it rankles because it does reduce town KP, but it's better than the alternative... hopefully something else comes up in the next *checks clock* 29 minutes


----------



## Zori (Sep 24, 2022)

*Night 1*







_Fennekin walked back to the town feeling antsy. They figured that all of their classmates probably felt the same, since they walked home in a group. The sounds of footsteps filled the dusky sky.

The town square was cleared out by the time they got there. For a while, they all sat by the lake, watching the moon.

Tomorrow, they would probably find Budew and everything would go back to normal, right?
Slowly, the students dispersed until only they and Riolu remained, mesmerised by the splashing of the waves, the sounds of their breathing, and the sparkling stars above..._​*Nobody has died.

Night 1 begins, and will last 48 hours (minus 5 minutes).
Day 1 will begin Monday, 19:00 UTC.*



Spoiler: Pings



@M&F
@JackPK
@Zero Moment
@Novae
@haneko
@Herbe
@RedneckPhoenix
@qenya


----------



## Zori (Sep 26, 2022)

daystart may be delayed for a few hours bc parents signed me up for something w/out telling me nya


----------



## Zori (Sep 26, 2022)

*Day 2*







_Another nightmare.
Fennekin sat up with a jolt and stood up blankly. They thoughtlessly walked out the door and over the bridge. The stars shined brightly above as the cold night air whipped through the town.

In the town square there lay a paper. They picked it up and began to read from it.

"Begin with 0."_

(That seems easy enough...)

_"Add 1 if there is a Light-aligned role that passively receives information each night in the form of poetry."

The wind's swirling felt stronger than before. The stars' glow felt somehow eerie...

"Add 2 if there is a Light-aligned role with a night action that announces itself to its target and blocks killing actions performed by its target."

They looked up at the sky, a whirlwind of leaves surrounding them, opening the night sky. That light... it felt like it pierced their soul. They stood, transfixed by it.

"Add 4 if there is a role that could reasonably be described as a poisoner. What is the result?"

Fennekin felt a tap on their shoulder.

"Remember... you're never alone..."_​*Novae was found petrified. They were Fennekin.

Shelmet's rolecard was tampered with.

Day 2 begins, and will last 45 hours and 45 minutes unless a 24 hour extension is voted on.
Night 2 will likely begin Wednesday, 19:00 UTC.*



Spoiler: Pings



@M&F
@JackPK
@Zero Moment
@haneko
@Herbe
@RedneckPhoenix
@qenya


----------



## M&F (Sep 26, 2022)

okay, so, my apologies for completely vanishing ultimately last Day; turns out that the vaccine side effect situation was... actually going to get worse before it could get better, to say the least.

anyway, I've only been back up and at 'em since roughly today afternoon, so, it's still going to take me a while to be useful vis-a-vis continuing topics from the previous Day. assuming there are any of interest remaining anyway, I'm not even done reading the EoD

still, I see no sense in holding this much back, so, one express morsel: I'm a little puzzled as to how my night actions may or may not relate to that alert we're getting about the Shelmet rolecard here. pondering if it'd be worthwhile to roleclaim in order to see if there's any solving the confusion with that. I can't say I feel like I'm on the verge of unlocking something exceptionally helpful vis-a-vis scumhunting, in any case, and I don't want to have to chase Eifie's ghost from my basement with a broom again.


----------



## Zero Moment (Sep 26, 2022)

uhhh. okay. no notice of what Novae's alignment was, but I'd think it was Light? And the numbers in the flavor count up to 7, which is the number of players that're left. No idea if this is a misdirect or not.


----------



## RedneckPhoenix (Sep 26, 2022)

[placeholder text]


----------



## Zero Moment (Sep 26, 2022)

[placeholder reply]


----------



## Herbe (Sep 27, 2022)

_Forsee the change in village life
A task anew to mar the strife
If role and path are understood
Then alteration shan't make good_

boy cryptic was an understatement wasn't it

anyway yeah. i think the flavor refers back to night 0's flavor which was talking about how many players were out there that were dark-aligned or capable of winning with the dark. with the knowledge that potentially 3rd parties exist that can win alongside one faction or the other, this flavor clue might either be a) a red herring (why would we be supposed to figure the game out from flavor idk idk) or b) point to there not being a poisoner, for a result of a reasonable 3 players darkaligned/capable of winning with dark as 3rd parties? 

which is just like... then what the fuck did my first poem mean then. and how does any of this connect to the shelmet being tampered with? anyway.


----------



## JackPK (Sep 27, 2022)

"they were Fennekin" with no mention of alignment...

given that Fennekin was the viewpoint perspective in the D1/N1 posts as well, it feeeeeeeeels like that should mean town, but idk if that's just my gut telling me "main character = good"... perhaps since there was no notice of alignment, that could mean Novae was a 3p?

(eifie's voice cries out. "stop setup speccing")


----------



## JackPK (Sep 27, 2022)

M&F I hope you're feeling better and I look forward to hearing what you think of yesterDay's EOD!


----------



## haneko (Sep 27, 2022)

@JackPK No worries about the "stop setup spec" thing, I was just having a bad day then

I am a bit confused why no one died yesterDay; there were votes cast and iirc Herbe had a slight majority?


----------



## Zero Moment (Sep 27, 2022)

there were 3 abstain votes to 2 herbe votes


----------



## haneko (Sep 27, 2022)

Ah ok, I only saw one abstain - must have missed the rest


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## haneko (Sep 27, 2022)

That was not an expression of doubt - reread the thread and qenya, zm & herbe abstained

also @Zero Moment  - I know you're Riolu.

Might as well stir the pot to see what happens lmao


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## Zero Moment (Sep 27, 2022)

Indeed, I am Riolu.


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## Zero Moment (Sep 27, 2022)

how u kno tho


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## qenya (Sep 27, 2022)

good news guys? (i was kinda afraid of some kind of mega death orgy to make up the previous quiet night)

annoying that we don't get a flip though. like i said yesterday i don't think 3rd parties are likely. at first i was thinking the game was flipless but actually, based on this:


Herbe said:


> Forsee the change in village life
> A task anew to mar the strife
> If role and path are understood
> Then alteration shan't make good


i'm wondering if "alteration" means there's a role that's fucking with the flips?


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## RedneckPhoenix (Sep 27, 2022)

fuck it
*herbe*


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## RedneckPhoenix (Sep 27, 2022)

trusting instincts and whatnot


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## RedneckPhoenix (Sep 27, 2022)

...ohohohohoh.

eeheeheeheehee.


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## RedneckPhoenix (Sep 27, 2022)

's funny, right. i'd expect zori to proofread poems with gusto. use proper spelling and such.

seems unlikely zori'd spell somethin' wrong, right? specially a word like "foresee". pretty uncommon, right? you'd wanna spell that right if you were gonna use it.

but i know someone who spells it "forsee". haven't corrected them yet, cuz it's cute. but...
View attachment Screenshot_20220927-073757_Telegram.jpg


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## RedneckPhoenix (Sep 27, 2022)

...pretend that attached right.


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## haneko (Sep 27, 2022)

ok so I know who the protagonist and sidekick are in game, however I do not know their alignments. I can choose to protect one of them each night, so if they get targeted by a kill action, I die instead. 

Haven't used my ability yet since I don't know if either ZM or Novae are Light.

I'm buizel flavour wise

I feel like we're not going to get very far without a Mass Roleclaim tbh (I thiiink mf also floated this idea Some posts earlier?)


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## haneko (Sep 27, 2022)

oh yeah by protagonist/sidekick I mean Fennekin/Riolu


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## Zero Moment (Sep 27, 2022)

Yup, I am the Partner. On N0 I was asked to pick two characters from the list of PSMD starter pokemon, one of which would be assigned to me. I chose Fennekin and Riolu. 
During D1 start I saw those names mentioned in the flavor, but I thought it was just flavor based on my choice. Turns out the Player was also in the game, and species chosen by me.


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## Zori (Sep 27, 2022)

Dropping this here for general information:
I realized that this might not be intuitive for all situations, and that this could cause confusion or a different result happen than may be expected according to standard expectations.

*Order of Operations:*
Manipulative Actions (Roleblocks, Redirections, etc.)
Protective Actions (Doctors, etc.)
Miscellanea (Up to host discretion)
Killing Actions (Anything that kills people)
Investigative Actions (Anything that returns feedback to you)

All actions (with the exception of Manipulative Actions) are queued up to occur in a specific, predetermined order, and are then processed serially.
Passive abilities often take effect as soon as they are triggered and process immediately after the action that triggers them.


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## haneko (Sep 27, 2022)

gonna set aside my pet theory that tampering is a cult like mechanic and place a random vote on someone who hasn't flavor claimed yet...

one dodgy website later -

View attachment IMG_20220927_220350.jpg

sorry *qenya* - this is a vote to try and get some info on what your flavour is and some info about the night actions you can perform


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## qenya (Sep 28, 2022)

no need to apologise! though you could just have asked :P

i'm espurr, but i don't have any information about other players' characters like you two seem to. my flavour basically just describes me as a quiet student who keeps an eye out for their classmates (heavily abbreviated).

i am going to be the dissenting voice and say i don't like the idea of a massclaim so early in the game though. we've had literally one death so far. maybe let's wait at least one more round to give the inforole(s) more time to collect useful information before outing them?


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## RedneckPhoenix (Sep 28, 2022)

*herbe*


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## Zero Moment (Sep 28, 2022)

I'm good with a *Herbe* now tbh


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## JackPK (Sep 28, 2022)

I agree with qenya that it seems way too early for a massclaim.

idk that a misspelling in the poem is grounds to suggest it's fake (irony that I'm saying this, given I'm a copy editor) but on the other hand I don't particularly have any leads strong enough for me to suggest an alternate wagon

as a matter of principle, though, I do think having competing wagons is preferable over a single one just so we can (over)analyze, like, wagonomics and shit. idk. does anyone have suggestions for a second wagon


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## Herbe (Sep 28, 2022)

tinfoil rnp strikes again etc etc

augh i guess i oughta Consider things (and probably suggest a second wagon considering my head's on the block again) before going to sleep so there'll be time to Discuss and such

gimme a second im gonna comb through thread


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## Herbe (Sep 28, 2022)

readsish:

i think rnp is the role he claims he is (and i hate to base it off flavor but i do think that what today's flavor is trying to tell us is that there are 3 dark aligned/capable of winning with dark, and that the cryptic first poem was intentionally misleading perhaps)

jack is feeling Especially towny this game

feeling the next amount of most good about qenya esp in approaches to gameplay thus far

haneko and zm are vaguely at the same level for me i guess? i think that zm probably does have the role he claims but its not necessarily light-indicative tbh. so maybe putting haneko vaguely above zm here - have really appreciated haneko's activity level

and lastly i just have this itching feeling that mf is not town this game tbh tbh tbh. i mean. i don't think that whatever's going on with the shelmet role is /good/ for town, i really want to hear what she has to say now that she's claimed affiliation. i just. yknow. also would like to hear her dish out a reads spread tbh. 

anyway - my suggestions counterwagonwise are zm or mf, leaning mf, but i'll wait to place a vote for now and see what happens when i wake up


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## RedneckPhoenix (Sep 28, 2022)

*herbe*


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## qenya (Sep 28, 2022)

as i keep saying, i don't think herbe is a great choice ... the copyediting thing is a neat catch that ordinarily i would find compelling, but on its own and set against the towniness of D1 i don't think it's enough to make me want to elim there

i'm in the same boat with jack of not having a better idea though. in the interest of stimulating discussion before EoD... how about *M&F*. i am curious to hear more about her hint about how she's related to whatever's going on with the shelmet thing. i agree with herbe that ZM is probably next on the PoE after that.

i am going to miss EoD probably on account of D&D but i will do my best to check in again before then


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## qenya (Sep 28, 2022)

oh i guess we can still vote for an *extension*. i'm gonna do that just cause it would be more convenient for me personally scheduling-wise, but not gonna be particularly annoyed if nobody else agrees


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## Herbe (Sep 28, 2022)

*mf *for now, for pressure and to balance out my wagon…… all my previous comments stand


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## M&F (Sep 28, 2022)

well, consider myself pressured, I suppose

read postening to follow


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## M&F (Sep 28, 2022)

so first off, from the top, let's see where we stand discussionwise. this morning's cadaver turned up alignmentless -- something I did _not_ notice the first read through, whops -- and people have generally found it confusing and annoying. (for my money, the simplest assumption would probably be that the mafia has access to a Janitor power, ie, something they can use to scrub info out of the deads). then RNP is... kind of just clearly tunnelled at this point (and for the record, "forsee" is not an _incorrect_ spelling, although granted it is uncommon). and we have a few flavor claims! I don't remember full well pushing for a massclaim, but, well, I wouldn't be against it at this juncture exactly; let's keep in mind that this is a pretty small game, so, "too early" might be later than you'd imagine. and then, for last, we have a bit of actual readposting, god bless, and... wagonomics, which I'm personally really not a fan of, but eh, that's a tactical disagreement, not something that would necessarily push me to side-eye people for engaging in it at all (although I will probably not be very charitable towards people when I ponder their possible motives for engaging in wagonomics)-

... aaaaand I have an appointment coming up soon, so I'll have to leave it at that opener for now. annoying, but I'll be back in an hour to make some real progress on the part where I contribute my own thing


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## M&F (Sep 28, 2022)

although, before I dash off, I may as well claim my flavor too. why not, after all? it's really nothing so interesting. I'm just your run-of-the-mill, yet dazzlingly attractive wanderer...







expedition society? I hardly know... herity!


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## Herbe (Sep 28, 2022)

View attachment 209DB7EA-C9B8-4D63-8A15-199BAC263A80.jpeg
(Source)

look its not that i think you would openly claim a scum aligned role name as scum but…. this you? what’s your role do? (this was the only result i found while googling the title)


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## qenya (Sep 28, 2022)

hmm, i'm not reading that as a roleclaim, she seemed pretty clear that it was just flavour. it doesn't seem especially AI to me.

nothing here about what she mentioned at start of day though, which surprises me... i wonder if she misunderstood the question or something. almost inclined to townlean on that, since i would expect at least an attempt at a plausible explanation otherwise... hmm


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## Zero Moment (Sep 28, 2022)

tbf I don't think the roles names actually correspond to mafia role names. Shelmet was supposedly the Serene Village Vanguard. I think they just describe the who of our characters, not the what.
oh also *extend-o-matic*


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## JackPK (Sep 28, 2022)

yeah, Ampharos in SMD is apparently "the Dashing Wanderer" in-game so I agree with qenya, I'm not inclined to take that as game-mechanical


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## qenya (Sep 28, 2022)

ugh god i don't know what to do. *unvote*


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## qenya (Sep 28, 2022)

three minutes to EoD, right?


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## JackPK (Sep 28, 2022)

if I'm hastily re-reading the votes right, there's what, RNP and ZM sitting on Herbe, Herbe still on M&F, and haneko's still parked on qenya? did I miss any?


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## Zori (Sep 28, 2022)

qenya said:


> three minutes to EoD, right?


yes


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## qenya (Sep 28, 2022)

ugh. god. fine. *M&F.* let it rand


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## JackPK (Sep 28, 2022)

Herbe said:


> View attachment 1173
> (Source)
> 
> look its not that i think you would openly claim a scum aligned role name as scum but…. this you? what’s your role do? (this was the only result i found while googling the title)


upon hasty consideration I do not like this post, putting my vote on *Herbe*


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## JackPK (Sep 28, 2022)

explaining quickly if I can get this in under the buzzer. taking M&F's uncapitalized "wanderer" word and looking it up as a mafia role without checking whether it has a mystery dungeon flavor as well feels, to me, like possibly bad faith pushing


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## Zori (Sep 28, 2022)

*Vote Count

Herbe (3) *- RedneckPhoenix, Zero Moment, JackPK
*M&F (2) *- Herbe, qenya
*qenya (1) *- haneko

*Day is over.*


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## Zori (Sep 28, 2022)

*Night 2*





​(I'm in class right now so I'll start night quickly then try to write flavor in a few hours when I have the time)

*Herbe was executed. They were Jirachi.

Night 2 begins, and lasts 48 hours.
Day 3 will begin Friday, 19:00 UTC.*



Spoiler: Pings



@M&F
@JackPK
@Zero Moment
@haneko
@RedneckPhoenix
@qenya


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## Zori (Sep 28, 2022)

_Another long day. This time, the curse's hold on the village was undeniable.
Riolu payed no attention to the lesson at school. Nobody blamed them for it.

A daydream._
(Why... why would you do that? You knew you shouldn't have gone off alone...)

_They came to the town square, where the adults were huddled in a mass.
Roselia pressed a flower into Jirachi's chest. "Give me my child back."

Jirachi stammered. "Well, the thing is--"

Roselia punched him in the face. "Give. Me. Back. My. Child."

Before Jirachi could do anything, Roselia extended a vine. In a flash, she started pinning Jirachi to the ground. The adults surrounded them with somber demeanors.
Riolu snapped out of their trance._

"Please, stop fighting!"

_"They stole my child from me. They stole your best friend from you... why? Why do you want to stop me from killing him?"_

"This isn't a solution. It'll only... make things worse... Why... why can't we trust each other?"

_"Why, you--"
They sucker punched her in the gut, tears pouring from their eyes. They looked pleadingly into the sky as she slumped to the ground, unconscious. They picked Jirachi's limp body off the ground._

"Come on. We're going. We shouldn't be here right now."​


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## Zori (Sep 30, 2022)

*Day 3*







_Another night of unrest.
Riolu lay on their back in the woods. A tear rolled down their cheek. The moon glistened above, the pre-dawn glow filtering through the canopy. They saw Jirachi gently stroke their forehead, but they had no strength to do anything but stare at the fading stars and clouds.

(Why... How... How... could they be so bad... conceal such darkness...)
(They're killing us all inside...)

A glowing smile tugged at the corner of their memory.

(Why... why did it have to be her...)

---

The sun shined high in the sky, burning their eyes. It seemed to burn so brightly... 
The wind began to pick up, rustling the leaves around them and gathering the clouds. An ethereal glimmer... They jolted upright to see Pancham's ghostly face.

He smirked. "Heh, to think I'd be relying on you, of all people?" They tilted their head and flashed a smile back. Pancham's gaze turned somber as he turned to look them in the eyes. He put his hand on their shoulder. "Don't give up, got it? You know deep down that you carry the truth that could help us... These scarfs, huh. They're really something..."

They returned his gaze. "I will." They looked into each others' eyes for a few moments before they turned to glance around.

Pancham smiled. "Yeah, she's here. She's hardly left your side, even."

A ghostly Fennekin stood next to a nearby tree, slowly advancing towards them. Both of them broke into wide grins, and ran forward to hug each other.

"Remember... even during the darkest night... you'll always have a light to guide you."

---

Another night, another note found in the town square.
"Begin with 0. Add 1 if there is a Light-aligned role whose flavour is Buizel. Add 2 if there is a Light-aligned role whose flavour is Riolu. Add 4 if there is a Light-aligned role whose flavour is Ampharos."
The adults were continuously puzzled by these notes. They had no idea who they were coming from..._​
*RedneckPhoenix has died. They were Pancham.
Jirachi's rolecard was tampered with.

Day 3 begins and will last 48 hours, unless a 24 hour extension is voted on.
Night 3 will likely begin Sunday, 19:00 UTC.*


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## Zori (Sep 30, 2022)

Spoiler: Pings



@M&F
@JackPK
@Zero Moment
@haneko
@qenya


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## JackPK (Sep 30, 2022)

so uhhhh did anyone else's role change overNight or just me

(same alignment same flavor, but my night action changed)

View attachment limmy.jpg


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## Zero Moment (Sep 30, 2022)

...no, my role did not change in the slightest.


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## haneko (Sep 30, 2022)

mine hasn't changed either

also qenya thanks for answering my question and so sorry I didn't come back to the thread (actually, sorry to everyone) - I came back to this thread after EOD fearing I'd accidentally started a wagon against you :')

Jack pk, if you feel like it wouldn't be dangerous to share, can you explain what your action changed from/to?


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## haneko (Sep 30, 2022)

reading jack as towny BC he seems confused about the change


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## qenya (Sep 30, 2022)

well, i can tell you mine certainly didn't! i was _actually_ the oracle, always have been and still am. (so it's just as well herbe got corrected about their misapprehension that _they_ were the oracle way back at the start of the game, otherwise i would have been gunning in completely the wrong direction, haha.)

first, i apologise for any confusion that arose from my questions getting published in the start-of-day flavour every day... i did my best to steer people away from the most incorrect interpretations but i think perhaps there might have been a couple of occasions when folks got distracted by irrelevancies. oh well i can clear everything up now.

as well as the normal restriction (questions have to relate to the pre-game setup, so i can't just ask what alignment or role a player is), i'm also restricted to questions answerable with a single digit (zero to nine). however it turned out to be a lot more exploitable than i think zori anticipated. i have been diligently softing them in my first post every day so here's the details...


Zori said:


> How many players are either aligned with the Dark or capable of winning alongside the Dark?





qenya said:


> two


pretty standard first question. as well as being helpful to get a handle on the difficulty of the game, this also suggested to me that there were zero third parties, because otherwise there would only be one slot left for actual mafia. so i tried to talk down that possibility when it came up.

during day 1 i realised that "a single digit" is another way of saying "3.3 bits of information", so i could basically finagle the question into being 3 yes-or-no questions every night. (sorry again zori.) so my second question was a lot more complex:


Zori said:


> _Begin with 0. Add 1 if there is a Light-aligned role that passively receives information each night in the form of poetry. Add 2 if there is a Light-aligned role with a night action that announces itself to its target and blocks killing actions performed by its target. Add 4 if there is a role that could reasonably be described as a poisoner. What is the result?_





qenya said:


> 3


this was basically my way of trying to clear herbe and rnp since they had provided enough info about their rolecards that i could ask about the alignments of those instead, getting around the restriction. a negative result wouldn't necessarily have made them mafia; they might also have been lying (or mistaken) about the details of their roles, or maybe i might just have technically misphrased something. but in the event it transpired that they were indeed both telling the truth and both town (which i thought was the most likely outcome anyway, but always good to get a mechclear). it is slightly aggravating that both are now dead so there's not much benefit to having their alignments confirmed, but whatever.

as for the poisoner question, i'm not really sure where that leaves us. i think herbe was right about their first poem talking about something to do with nightkills, because the "good news" thing does seem like a reference to the "good news guys" meme, and "infectious stone" calls to mind the fact that Novae was "found petrified" after N1. but it seems poison was not the solution after all. and nothing else springs to mind.

i think i should probably apologise for how EoD2 turned out as well... to herbe in spectator chat, if nobody else. i knew MF was the correct wagon to stay on since i had a mechclear on herbe, but i panicked as the timer ticked down, and also i was kind of distracted since i was being a little bit rude to my D&D table by playing mafia here on the side (not that my attention was really needed, our ranger was doing a backstory exposition subplot for most of the session, but). i eventually ended up in the right place i guess but, well, you know how it turned out.

arguably i should have claimed there, to get everyone else off herbe's wagon, but i couldn't quite bring myself to put myself in the line of fire because i knew i could probably solve the game with my N2 question. that could very easily have been the wrong call, but... well, see for yourself:


Zori said:


> Begin with 0. Add 1 if there is a Light-aligned role whose flavour is Buizel. Add 2 if there is a Light-aligned role whose flavour is Riolu. Add 4 if there is a Light-aligned role whose flavour is Ampharos.


the answer i got for this one was 4, which i think says pretty clearly that haneko and ZM have both got quite a lot of explaining to do. not much more to say really. it also neatly ties up that thing with haneko being able to confirm ZM's flavour yesterday... lovely bit of wolf theatre.

we have a whole 48 hours to vote so i'm quite open to being told there's something i've missed, but it's gonna have to be good because from where i'm standing this seems really quite unambiguous.

i am gonna plop myself on *Zero Moment* because i feel vaguely more threatened by him than by haneko, but we don't really know what either of their roles are/which might pose the most threat, so if there's another inforole floating around out there that could shed some light (Jack? MF?), it would be much appreciated.


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## Zero Moment (Sep 30, 2022)

wait a second


qenya said:


> questions have to relate to the pre-game setup


so what you're saying is, you _only_ receive info about how the game started, and not how things have changed as the game has progressed?


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## haneko (Sep 30, 2022)

qenya said:


> it also neatly ties up that thing with haneko being able to confirm ZM's flavour yesterday... lovely bit of wolf theatre.


Your post was quite the infodump. @_@

My reaction to reading today's number puzzle thingy in the flavour was seeing myself be featured with the correct alignment and trying to decide whether or not to trust the flavour on the other two. (As I said earlier, I do not know the alignments of Novae or ZM. I only know they are Fennekin/Riolu).

Secondly, doesn't the normal oracle role involve Zori *answering* your questions rather than *asking you*?  It's possible you may have made a mistake in the quotes, but if it's accurate, I'm not inclined to believe your takes on alignment any more than someone else's.


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## qenya (Sep 30, 2022)

well yeah, oracles would be broken as fuck if they could freely double as cops, watchers, etc. why do you ask?


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## qenya (Sep 30, 2022)

qenya said:


> well yeah, oracles would be broken as fuck if they could freely double as cops, watchers, etc. why do you ask?


er, this was in reply to ZM, sorry. ninja'ed


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## haneko (Sep 30, 2022)

In a less accusatory tone, can you explain how exactly your oracle role works? I'm very confused about who is supplying the information on the setup here.


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## Zero Moment (Sep 30, 2022)

qenya said:


> well yeah, oracles would be broken as fuck if they could freely double as cops, watchers, etc. why do you ask?


Ha-ha! Well then, your tea reading does not, in fact, contradict my claims! For you see, my flavor at the start of the game was not Riolu! My flavor was The Partner until I took a choice Night 0!


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## qenya (Sep 30, 2022)

haneko said:


> Secondly, doesn't the normal oracle role involve Zori *answering* your questions rather than *asking you*? It's possible you may have made a mistake in the quotes, but if it's accurate, I'm not inclined to believe your takes on alignment any more than someone else's.


yep, that's how an oracle works. just to be clear, those quotes in my post are linking back to this thread, not to my role PM - you can see if you click on the permalinks next to each one. the ones from Zori are where my daily questions got posted in the start-of-day flavour, which as I mentioned is a particular wrinkle of my role, and the ones from me are where i "softed" the answers earlier - that means subtly hiding inforole information in public posts so that hopefully it can be picked up on even after your death. obviously in the actual role PM it was me asking the questions and Zori answering them, yes.


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## qenya (Sep 30, 2022)

Zero Moment said:


> qenya said:
> 
> 
> > well yeah, oracles would be broken as fuck if they could freely double as cops, watchers, etc. why do you ask?
> ...


...

.......

.................

fuck you did say that yesterDay didn't you.

ok it's _possible_ i may have been a bit hasty. goddammit.


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## Zori (Sep 30, 2022)

errata:
redneck phoenix was petrified
sorry i slept really bad


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## qenya (Sep 30, 2022)

ok, well, we still have a pretty damning result on *haneko*, at least. i guess the aim for the rest of the day is to sort ZM vs Jack.


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## qenya (Sep 30, 2022)

_kicking_ myself for that. zori must have been beside herself laughing at me as she sent the result. i am very sorry ZM.

(not that this _clears_ you, you understand, it just means you're not guaranteed implicated. but.)


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## JackPK (Sep 30, 2022)

haneko said:


> Jack pk, if you feel like it wouldn't be dangerous to share, can you explain what your action changed from/to?


Yeah, we're late game enough that I think it's basically time for everyone to fullclaim anyway. I'm happy to start that:

I am Deerling, a light-aligned "Serene Village Socialite". my original power was a JOAT variant with one-shot uses of "jailkeep a player", "protect a player from abilities that all Dark players share", and "chain a player". ("Jailkeep" = they cannot die that night, but they are roleblocked, and if they try to kill, I die. "Chain" = they cannot die that night, but if I die that night or the subsequent day, they lose all their powers.)

I opted to not do anything n0, chained RNP n1, and protected qenya from Dark players' shared abilities n2. I was hoping to save my jailkeep for toNight as we're in or approaching LyLo, but got screwed out of that by my action changing >:(

My new power I won't be able to use until the upcoming night phase, and mechanically I thiiiiiiiiink its main effect is in fact useless at this point (it won't have a useful effect until the night afterward, at which point the game will inevitably have already ended unless we have a no-kill night and/or a no-yeet day between now and then). But it does have a secondary effect of informing my target of "a vague paraphrase" of its effect, so I prefer not to share that at this time so it can be used to verify my claim iff my target and I both survive to toMorrow.


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## haneko (Sep 30, 2022)

I believe qenya is lying.

I'm also going to fullclaim - I am Buizel, the Expedition Society Underwater Specialist. I win when all Dark players are dead. I am informed who the player character and partner are at the end of N0. I don't know their alignments. 

At night: If I guess someone's flavour character correctly, and they are killed, I will die instead of them. N1 I guessed that Herbe was Jirachi. N2 I guessed that qenya was Espurr.

I can choose to learn what the player's or partner's abilities are. Once I do, I become unable to do any other night actions and if they are killed, I will die instead of or alongside them, depending on the ability used to kill. (I have not chosen to do this since I don't know their alignments).


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## haneko (Sep 30, 2022)

I'll also stick a vote on *qenya* for the sake of self-preservation


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## M&F (Sep 30, 2022)

goddammit I can't believe EoD snuck up on me and I ended up not being useful once again. I am the best fucking mafia player in this entire internet

anyway, lots read and I literally just committed a nap; feel free to buzz me to post about anything that's prioritary, otherwise I will be catching up slooooowly


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## haneko (Oct 1, 2022)

Seeing as ZM seems to have been cleared, I am willing to use my night action to learn their abilities and protect them from further harm for the rest of the game, if other people think it'd be useful.

More info about my role: the very first line of my role PM calls me the Expedition Society Guardian Angel. I don't know if anyone else has a slightly different flavour between the title and description...


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## M&F (Oct 1, 2022)

alright, so let's see where we're standing around here

-first of all, it's interesting to me that no one's commenting on Jack hammering Herbe last EoD. ... jackhammering. I suppose it's hard to tell what that would or wouldn't have accomplished when we still aren't getting any flips, at all. from where I'm standing it's probably a good thing it happened, since I know I'm town and at this point that's kind of the extent of it; still, I figured more people would have opinions about it
-although it's worth mentioning that Herbe's name, as well as the Jirachi flavor, keep coming up with a blue highlight in modposts, which is distinct both from the night deads (no color highlight) and from the Shelmet flavor (red highlight). I should think that we're not getting a flip exclusively in the form of color-coding, but clearly stranger things have happened in this setup
-speaking of which -- an entire ass role change? I guess we're not talking about that a whole lot either, but I can't blame yall, I too don't even want to start thinking about that- and for the record, my role is exactly where I left it last time
-which also reminds to mention, we have another notification of someone's role being tampered with. and this one, this time, has nothing to do with my actions, although all put together that confuses me more, not less. in any case, I'll probably want to fullclaim as soon as I'm done parsing everything else around here, so, look forward to sharing in the confusion with me, I guess

and then there's the next topic which is... a boulder. so I'll at least get this part of the post out of the gate before I go unravel _that_ enormity


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## qenya (Oct 1, 2022)

hmm ok, gonna be honest I was semi-hoping for some sort of defence from haneko beyond the old OMGUS. oh well.

I am not quite sure what to make of her talking about ZM being "cleared" out of nowhere. at first it seems like she's trying to pull the wool over our eyes by pretending something's been decided when it hasn't, but it seems too blatant an attempt, so maybe reverse psychology? could go either way. I notice she also expressed a "townread" on Jack at the very beginning of the day, before I published my results. would definitely feel more comfortable with something mechanical... god i'm such an idiot, if only I'd not fucked up the question we could've been done by now



M&F said:


> I'll probably want to fullclaim as soon as I'm done parsing everything else around here


could I ask you to do your claim last? I think we're only waiting for ZM now. that way it will give us the greatest chance of catching inconsistencies with Jack's or ZM's claims


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## haneko (Oct 1, 2022)

qenya said:


> hmm ok, gonna be honest I was semi-hoping for some sort of defence from haneko beyond the old OMGUS. oh well.


I mean, my defense is literally:

1. I know I'm light-aligned,
2. My role hasn't been tampered with,
3. Since I'm Light, the answer to your question can't be 3,
4. You're saying your answer was 3.

Conclusion: You're lying, or you've got the wrong information somehow (which could suggest a fakeclaim).

FWIW, I also find the things you softed to be so subtle I couldn't imagine picking up on them after your death. Which again, if you were fakeclaiming, would make sense.


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## haneko (Oct 1, 2022)

oh wow that looks weird on mobile lol



qenya said:


> I am not quite sure what to make of her talking about ZM being "cleared" out of nowhere.


you're literally the one who suggested he was unlikely to be Dark.


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## haneko (Oct 1, 2022)

M&F said:


> I suppose it's hard to tell what that would or wouldn't have accomplished when we still aren't getting any flips, at all.


Yeah, I agree that's why there is little talk about it. I don't really know what to think.



M&F said:


> we have another notification of someone's role being tampered with. and this one, this time, has nothing to do with my actions


...You're able to change people's role PMs?!


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## haneko (Oct 1, 2022)

I can't ISO you MF :'0


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## haneko (Oct 1, 2022)

Ah, ok, you mentioned it earlier. I'll be waiting for your claim


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## Zero Moment (Oct 1, 2022)

qenya said:


> I think we're only waiting for ZM now.


My role equivalent... probably has a name that I don't recall, but what I do is every Night I take up the abilities of one of the dead players. The flavor makes it kinda unclear whether I pull from the list of all the dead players or just the player that was lynched the previous Day, but w/e. (the wording also specifies that I use "one" of their abilities, does anyone have two? er, besides our Jack, now that I think about it....) I'm not informed of what the ability does, only that it'll be classified as Helpful, Harmful, or Neutral, and what kind of targets it takes. I'm also unable to kill with these abilities (the guilt I have is immense) but if I would have I'm notified who I would've.

On D1 I wasn't actually aware that I was taking from dead players, I thought I was pulling from a random ability from a list. I was very disappointed that next Night.
Last Night I received an ability from Herbe, which was Harmful. I used it on RNP (it's what they would have wanted) but didn't get any feedback on it, so, shrug?


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## qenya (Oct 2, 2022)

Zero Moment said:


> Last Night I received an ability from Herbe, which was Harmful. I used it on RNP (it's what they would have wanted) but didn't get any feedback on it, so, shrug?


oooh now this is a spicy claim. right off the bat, obviously it's completely inconsistent with what Herbe said their role was, which has been confirmed both by my questions and by their flip as town, sooo... hmm. it sounds like you're saying you don't target anyone, it just comes to you, so not some kind of redirector? i confess i'm a bit stumped otherwise.

the lack of an explanation kinda makes me _more_ inclined to believe you, since otherwise i would be suspicious of it too conveniently fitting the available information. but maybe that's the whole point. gotta love that WIFOM

the other thing that stands out is that your claims for who you got abilities from matches with the rolecards that were stated to have been "tampered with" - a non-player on N1, and Herbe on N2. is this anything? MF already said she had something to do with the N1 one, right?

i think it's time for you to break the knot MF... please say you have something that can


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## Zero Moment (Oct 2, 2022)

qenya said:


> a non-player on N1


no, I didn't get anything N1 because nobody died. I was Very Sad.
but it's possible that they had their poetry as a passive alongside a usable night action. 
and yeah, I don't target a player to get their ability, it gets assigned to me.


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## qenya (Oct 2, 2022)

Zero Moment said:


> qenya said:
> 
> 
> > a non-player on N1
> ...


right yes, I got that, just meant like, the coincidence of an "odd one out" on the same night your passive didn't go off, combined with it matching up on the other night, just stood out to me. idk. it's seeming more like "probably nothing" the more i think about it (although then i'm curious where the "Herbe's rolecard was tampered with" actually _did_ from...)

not much more to guess at without MF showing up but reminder that it's 3 hours to EoD, pls get your votes in people  would be bad to get this far and lose through apathy


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## qenya (Oct 2, 2022)

JackPK said:


> I opted to not do anything n0, chained RNP n1, and protected qenya from Dark players' shared abilities n2. I was hoping to save my jailkeep for toNight as we're in or approaching LyLo, but got screwed out of that by my action changing >:(


actually no yeah there's one more thing i'm wondering... jack, why did you pick me to protect last night? at first i'd thought you'd picked up on my softclaims and realised i had a useful inforole, but with what's been said today, i've been wondering if i was being too subtle... was that it, or was there some other reasoning behind it?


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## qenya (Oct 2, 2022)

qenya said:


> not much more to guess at without MF showing up but reminder that it's 3 hours to EoD


i just checked telegram and realised that today is the brazilian general election so that might be why she's been a bit absent

as per usual i am open to an *extension* if it helps anybody with scheduling, doesn't make any difference either way to me


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## M&F (Oct 2, 2022)

right, so, tell-all time it is. as I've mentioned, I am Ampharos, the dashing wanderer! ... but like, not as in the mafia role that apparently also exists and is called that. never heard of that one in my life previously. (although I sure as hell am stowing that list Herbe popped up with somewhere, I'm sure I'll be able to use it for many inscrutable and malicious GMing purposes-). no, rather, the thing is... well, let's be blunt, the whole Dashing Wanderer thing is a positive spin that Ampharos puts on the fact that he is, like a certain character that postcedes him in the Pokémon franchise, _pants with directions_. he is, in fact, so absolutely ditzy, that there's more than one scene in which he just sort of walks right into everyone around him while trying to figure out which way he's actually supposed to go

and _that_ is the foundation of my role. each night, I can "bump into" a player, and then, if that player visited someone else or was visited by someone else, I "bump into" that other player as well, so and so forth but exluding repeats; at the end of the day, I'm informed of how many people I bumped into. nothing else, just the headcount.

I can also make some pretty goofy choices vis-a-vis who I can target with this power, incidentally, and I was informed of that upfront on my PM without even asking. N0, I put one of those goofy choices to use and targeted myself; however, I turned up a measily count of 1, presumably indicating that I visited a player, ie me (the fact that my target player was visited by me is not counted in the final number). N1, I considered checking out Herbe but it seemed like a crapshoot (if they were lying about the pseudo-oracle thing they would presumably avoid taking trackable night actions afterward if they possibly could), so I indulged my curiosity and tried out the other of my goofy options: checking out the discardee role. since that turned up a count of 0, I presumed that the public notification of "tampering" came from me; I wouldn't remotely describe what I was doing as "tampering" since it was a measly info check, but as best as my info held no one else targeted the discarded role on the same night.

... and then, this night, we have another "tampering notification", but I didn't target Herbe. so that's what's puzzling me, although having thought more about it, I suppose I should figure that the "tampering notification" occours anytime any role targets a role that isn't presently fully in the game, and it _was_ just me checking out Shelmet last night, while tonight someone was snopping around Herbe's cadaver unbeknowst to any info my role pulls. and boy, my role has really not pulled  much info of any use up until now, huh

all I _can_ offer up is that I checked out qenya last night, eyebrows aheft about her weird wobbly EoD yesterDay, but as I'm walking in with another 0 in my hands, either she's telling the truth, or she took care to lie in a way that would match her night action patterns to a role like mine. which is why I've been taking my sweet time sorting through that claim, because it's so absolutely crucial to solve for toDay that I determine which of those two it is. but I suppose I'm just going to get pounded in the butt by the EoD again if I keep taking so long with shit, so, time to get decisive. ... just give me like, another couple minutes-


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## M&F (Oct 2, 2022)

wait, hold up, did jack just claim he targeted qenya N2, contradicting my info?


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## M&F (Oct 2, 2022)

qenya said:


> i just checked telegram and realised that today is the brazilian general election so that might be why she's been a bit absent


you would not BELIEVE the line at my polling place- I'm home now at least though!


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## M&F (Oct 2, 2022)

unless otherwise claimed I'm just going to assume that Jack's weird role change superseded his night action N2, thus he didn't successfully target qenya after all

it's enough to be frantically ISOing two people already


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## qenya (Oct 2, 2022)

:3c


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## JackPK (Oct 2, 2022)

qenya said:


> JackPK said:
> 
> 
> > I opted to not do anything n0, chained RNP n1, and protected qenya from Dark players' shared abilities n2. I was hoping to save my jailkeep for toNight as we're in or approaching LyLo, but got screwed out of that by my action changing >:(
> ...


I did not pick up on that, I just skimmed through a reread of the Day's posts and felt that you were being the most helpful/solvey, so I figured therefore there was a better-than-coin-flip chance that you'd be the nightkill target


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## qenya (Oct 2, 2022)

M&F said:


> unless otherwise claimed I'm just going to assume that Jack's weird role change superseded his night action N2, thus he didn't successfully target qenya after all


well, zori already laid out night action order for us, so it should be pretty easy to verify, right?



Zori said:


> Dropping this here for general information:
> I realized that this might not be intuitive for all situations, and that this could cause confusion or a different result happen than may be expected according to standard expectations.
> 
> *Order of Operations:*
> ...


...honestly i am having trouble parsing this but i will get back to you. one sec


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## qenya (Oct 2, 2022)

hm. i guess it depends whether whatever changed jack's role (...or so he claims) counts as a "manipulative action" or "miscellanea"


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## M&F (Oct 2, 2022)

okay, so, here goes: I think the present situation makes me a little more sympathetic to qenya's strange choices in last night's EoD -- perhaps I should have picked up on it, too, as clearly exasperated as she was at the point when she went "ugh god fine let it rand". otoh, I keep seeing but so many small red flags with haneko. like "pressure voting" people at the ass-end of EoD and not moving off, or being weirdly hasty to proclaim that Jack sounds towny earlier today (don't we know that mafiosxs sometimes just... act like they're confused)

so, barring any extensions, park my ass on *haneko* and cross my fingers about it; although frankly I think I'd rather just get this poll done with today, I don't know if that'd be better for the game but I have a different poll to spend the rest of today worried about-


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## M&F (Oct 2, 2022)

btw, jack, was your deceased jailer action "prevents the target from using or being targeted by night actions", or was it "prevents the target from targeting or being targeted by night actions"? or something else altogether?

because if your jailing was supposed to stop qenya's non-targeting night action from going through, it ostensibly didn't either


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## qenya (Oct 2, 2022)

M&F said:


> because if your jailing was supposed to stop qenya's non-targeting night action from going through, it ostensibly didn't either


no no, he said the jailkeeper was the one JOAT ability he didn't get to use


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## M&F (Oct 2, 2022)

ah, I see. so what did he claim to use N2? healing?


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## M&F (Oct 2, 2022)

ah, I see -- basically healing, albeit apparently phrased specifically as protection against mafia factional actions. well, that still targets no matter how you look at it, I suppose, so back to square one


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## qenya (Oct 2, 2022)

"protecting from dark players' shared abilities", which I take to mean basically "healing", yeah, assuming the mafia has a normal factional nightkill

which i guess they don't, necessarily. especially given herbe's cryptic first poem


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## M&F (Oct 2, 2022)

yeah, my GMese tells me this is a way to hedge information about what exactly the mafia's action analogous to a nightkill is, but we seem to be shit out of luck wrt figuring out what it _actually_ is unless someone makes a breakthrough on interpreting Herbe's poem, and frankly figuring that out doesn't really solve for toDay either


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## M&F (Oct 2, 2022)

(although if Jack is scum too -- very plausible w/w with haneko -- he'd also have incentive to put on his own GMese to continue concealing the secret of what the mafia's got in their trunk, which he'd now, but not want us to)


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## qenya (Oct 2, 2022)

so based on what you've said i'm thinking jack is probably looking sketchier than ZM, but just thinking about ways we could figure it out for certain...

obviously i am going to put through a more tightly worded question tonight, enabling us to _actually_ solve the game, for real this time. so after we dispose of haneko (who seems to have gone into antispew? valid tbh, i would in her shoes) the remaining mafioso needs to off or roleblock me in order to stay alive, thus needing to visit me.

so MF, you can target one of either Jack or ZM (_don't say which_), and the two of them can promise not to use any night actions (at least not any night actions targeting anyone). that way, if i die, you'll know whether your target is innocent or guilty based on whether or not they come back as having targeted someone. right?

the only way this doesn't work is if the remaining mafioso can simultaneously kill/roleblock me and _also_ visit the other suspect. or if they can somehow kill/roleblock me without visiting me. i'm not quite sure how to get around that possibility.


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## qenya (Oct 2, 2022)

oh, btw there is technically one other possibility... which is that Novae, who we don't have any information about at all, was the second mafioso and we'll all just win as soon as we elim haneko

i haven't really been considering it seriously, firstly because it doesn't seem very likely when the "petrification" death flavour sounds mafia-coded (esp based on herbe's first poem), and secondly (and more pertinently) because it doesn't affect what the correct course of action should be. but i thought i would mention it for completeness.


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## M&F (Oct 2, 2022)

that seems reasonable, yeah; the good ole coinflip. wish there was a better thing we could do to coordinate these powers, but, well, yours is plainly more useful than mine by a long shot, which is why we're probably looking at a dead you tomorrow


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## M&F (Oct 2, 2022)

and I mean, if we win with this lynch, then cool, we won and there's nothing else to be done; we have to make plans specifically for if the game is still rolling after this


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## M&F (Oct 2, 2022)

man, I thought this was going to be a lot more frantic of an EoD. is it really just me and qenya in here?


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## JackPK (Oct 2, 2022)

I agree with *haneko* for today

I was hoping to use my new night action's announcement-to-the-target side effect as a verification method for my new role, but your plan seems better qenya! so I will refrain from using my night action

(of course your plan is predicated on M&F being town -- have I overlooked a confirmation/pseudoconfirmation that she's telling the truth about her role? I recall somebody was sus about her early on, and I just know if she's indeed scum, graveyard chat is going to be absolutely bemoaning this plan. scum!M&F easily kills qenya, says she pinged either me or ZM doing it, and gets the other to vote with her to hit parity...)


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## JackPK (Oct 2, 2022)

(brain frantically panicking worrying town is about to lose this game. what if qenya/M&F are scumteam and qenya's questions being posted in the thread is not an oracle role at all but instead a scum broadcaster role whose night action is to give zori a message to be posted in the daypost. we have had a role like that in tcodfia in the past, I forget which game, but I remember it. I have (checks watch) 5 minutes to shower before I have to start work so I absolutely cannot ISO and figure out whether this is a possibility. godspeed I hope this panic attack is wrong)


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## qenya (Oct 2, 2022)

JackPK said:


> (of course your plan is predicated on M&F being town -- have I overlooked a confirmation/pseudoconfirmation that she's telling the truth about her role? I recall somebody was sus about her early on, and I just know if she's indeed scum, graveyard chat is going to be absolutely bemoaning this plan. scum!M&F easily kills qenya, says she pinged either me or ZM doing it, and gets the other to vote with her to hit parity...)


yep, my last question (well, question-component) was asking whether there was a Light-aligned Ampharos role, and I got told that there was. I think the flavours are pretty ironclad now that everybody has claimed theirs and nobody has counterclaimed anybody


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## qenya (Oct 2, 2022)

JackPK said:


> (brain frantically panicking worrying town is about to lose this game. what if qenya/M&F are scumteam and qenya's questions being posted in the thread is not an oracle role at all but instead a scum broadcaster role whose night action is to give zori a message to be posted in the daypost. we have had a role like that in tcodfia in the past, I forget which game, but I remember it. I have (checks watch) 5 minutes to shower before I have to start work so I absolutely cannot ISO and figure out whether this is a possibility. godspeed I hope this panic attack is wrong)


oh this is a fascinating idea... gonna admit, that didn't occur to me as an accusation i might have to defend against, and i'm not sure how i even would, it seems inherently unfalsifiable. i guess you could ask me to ask a question that i would have no other way of knowing, and confirm that i got the right answer back? but that would take a whole extra day/night cycle, which we don't have if both mafia are still left... mrgrgr. maybe i should have claimed yesterDay after all


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## M&F (Oct 2, 2022)

well, yeah, it is a good question; I too am putting my faith on qenya here without anyone else's claims or mechinfo to go off of -- just that her claim doesn't contradict my knowledge and I've made the final executive decision to believe her over haneko. I didn't even properly catch the part where her claim clears me, but what can I say, it's hard to complain about that when I almost got halfway afk lynched last time-


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## M&F (Oct 2, 2022)

it might help to consider that I was probably going to look like the scumteam of whoever I backed here no matter what


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## M&F (Oct 2, 2022)

but yeah, it's just, like -- you _should_ consider every possible scenario, but at some point you're going to have to decide which one your find more or less likely, because there just isn't a risk-free choice to take. wouldn't be much of a game if it consisted of risk-free choices, y'know?


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## JackPK (Oct 2, 2022)

(quickly popping back in in between work)



qenya said:


> JackPK said:
> 
> 
> > (of course your plan is predicated on M&F being town -- have I overlooked a confirmation/pseudoconfirmation that she's telling the truth about her role? I recall somebody was sus about her early on, and I just know if she's indeed scum, graveyard chat is going to be absolutely bemoaning this plan. scum!M&F easily kills qenya, says she pinged either me or ZM doing it, and gets the other to vote with her to hit parity...)
> ...


incredible, I love it, wonderful. I had forgotten about that



qenya said:


> JackPK said:
> 
> 
> > (brain frantically panicking worrying town is about to lose this game. what if qenya/M&F are scumteam and qenya's questions being posted in the thread is not an oracle role at all but instead a scum broadcaster role whose night action is to give zori a message to be posted in the daypost. we have had a role like that in tcodfia in the past, I forget which game, but I remember it. I have (checks watch) 5 minutes to shower before I have to start work so I absolutely cannot ISO and figure out whether this is a possibility. godspeed I hope this panic attack is wrong)
> ...


let me quickly think this through -- if we yeet haneko and the game continues, there will only be four of us left, so there can't be two scum left after that (2v2 would be parity), and you've already confirmed Ampharos/M&F, so therefore you only need to check me and ZM. "Add 1 if Deerling is light aligned, add 2 if {ZM's flavor that I don't have time to go check} is light aligned," and then you still have the add-4 question available, right?

what if you say "add 4 if Deerling's original role PM includes the word 'three' ". granted this only works if you survive to toMorrow to give a result and I survive to toMorrow to tell you if you got it right, but still

or am I overlooking a third question that you need to ask tonight?


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## qenya (Oct 2, 2022)

JackPK said:


> let me quickly think this through -- if we yeet haneko and the game continues, there will only be four of us left, so there can't be two scum left after that (2v2 would be parity), and you've already confirmed Ampharos/M&F, so therefore you only need to check me and ZM. "Add 1 if Deerling is light aligned, add 2 if {ZM's flavor that I don't have time to go check} is light aligned," and then you still have the add-4 question available, right?
> 
> what if you say "add 4 if Deerling's original role PM includes the word 'three' ". granted this only works if you survive to toMorrow to give a result and I survive to toMorrow to tell you if you got it right, but still
> 
> or am I overlooking a third question that you need to ask tonight?


that works fine except for the fact that if _you're_ the second mafioso, you can just lie about what the correct answer is in order to cast doubt on me

it occurs to me though that we don't actually need to check both you and ZM? because if one of you is town, the other must be mafia

so i could do something like: add 1 if Deerling is light-aligned, add 2 if Deerling's original role PM includes the word 'three', add 4 if [something that only ZM knows]. that way either of you could confirm it. does that work?


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## qenya (Oct 2, 2022)

assuming ZM gets on in time to suggest something to fill in that blank.


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## Zero Moment (Oct 2, 2022)

I guess I'm fine with *Haneko*


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## JackPK (Oct 2, 2022)

qenya said:


> JackPK said:
> 
> 
> > let me quickly think this through -- if we yeet haneko and the game continues, there will only be four of us left, so there can't be two scum left after that (2v2 would be parity), and you've already confirmed Ampharos/M&F, so therefore you only need to check me and ZM. "Add 1 if Deerling is light aligned, add 2 if {ZM's flavor that I don't have time to go check} is light aligned," and then you still have the add-4 question available, right?
> ...


yeah! that seems like it works to me!


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## qenya (Oct 2, 2022)

ZM, you have 8 minutes to come up with something lol


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## Zero Moment (Oct 2, 2022)

uhhhhhh shit


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## qenya (Oct 2, 2022)

all we need is a yes-or-no question about your role PM that i couldn't possibly know the answer to


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## Zero Moment (Oct 2, 2022)

how about
if the Partner's role PM says the word passionate


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## qenya (Oct 2, 2022)

nice! i'll go with that :)


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## Zori (Oct 2, 2022)

*Haneko *will be executed. Stand by as I write flavor.


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## Zori (Oct 2, 2022)

*Game End*







_Riolu and Jirachi stood in the woods next to the Serene Village school.
With a silent nod, they strode out. The sound of rustling leaves jolted the other school students.

Deerling turned around in an instant. "R-Riolu! I... I... I'm glad you're safe..." Riolu met Espurr's gaze, and she only smirked and chuckled.
Goomy's gaze wandered off into the sky. Farfetched looked up from his papers slowly.

Buizel ran up to Jirachi and gave them a hug. They gasped, and heard Deerling's voice utter their thoughts. "Buizel... you're... covered in bruises! Here... we need to treat some of these..."

Buizel murmered to Jirachi. "I'm glad you're okay. Both of you. I couldn't stand losing either of you."

They stood up and beckoned to the group.
"Come. We have somewhere we need to go."

---

Ampharos sat at the top of Revelation Mountain, just outside a glowing barrier. They had tried to pound for so long, but all it did was make their arms hurt.

"Please... just break already! I need you to!"

They looked at the Expedition Society Badge at their hand. "What's the point? Why... why should I care what everyone thinks of me... I... I hate this! This is all so stupid!"
With a scream of frustration, they hurled the Badge down the side of the mountain.

"Huh?"

---

Riolu stood in front of Ampharos, holding the Expedition Society Badge in their raised hand. Ampharos charged at them and snarled. In a flash, they stepped aside and threw Ampharos to the ground.
"Only you can do this. But you have to clear the shadow that lingers in your heart."

A voice rang out. "It's over, Ampharos."
Espurr walked up to the prone leader of the Expedition Society.
"It's time to teach them, now." She then turned to the opposite direction and spoke sweetly. "It's okay, you can come out now."
Budew peeked their head out to look at the group.

Jirachi and Buizel stared at Ampharos in shock. Ampharos curled up on the ground, a wave of despair crossing their face.
"You must... you have to hate me... I've done something terrible... Ugh! Why do I even... I hate you! I hate all of you! I-"

Buizel hugged them. "I know you're in pain. I know I've been negligent. If I can help in any way, I'll do it, now or future. If... If you'll forgive me..."

Ampharos gazed into their eyes. "Will... would you forgive me?"

Buizel nodded. "Of course I will. After all, you're my friend, aren't you?"_​
*haneko was executed. They were Buizel.

The game has ended in a victory for the Dark.
Winners
M&F - Ampharos - Roleguesser / 2-Shot Roleswapper
qenya - Espurr - Godfather Oracle

DISCARDED - Shelmet - Bookie Vigilante -> Astronomer

Others
Novae - Fennekin/Player Character - 3-Shot Ability Blocker
Zero Moment - Riolu/Partner - Rolling Backup (Last Death)
JackPK - Deerling - Protective JoAT -> Bookie Vigilante
RedneckPhoenix - Pancham - Kill Blocker
Herbe - Jirachi - Astronomer -> Bookie Vigilante -> Proctective JoAT
haneko - Buizel - Claim Bodyguard / 1-Shot Limited Rolecop*


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## Zori (Oct 2, 2022)

Spoiler: Pings



@M&F
@qenya
@Novae
@Zero Moment
@JackPK
@RedneckPhoenix 
@Herbe 
@haneko


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## qenya (Oct 2, 2022)




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## M&F (Oct 2, 2022)

mother of god, I had no idea I was going to be as poorly available for this game as I was. to qenya, for carrying the shit out of our here team, I put forth nothing less than both my apologies as well as my fathomless admiration

although ultimately the inactivity might have helped out a little on my end. I fuss so much over not sounding mafia, that I forget that some of the things mafiosxs do are also sometimes just... strategically good things to do as a mafiosx. like shutting the hell up every once in a while-

anyway, let's see how hard herbe was rolling in deadchat, what with that hunch of theirs on my alignment -- although frankly, I lied very little before N2 and I feel as if that bad feeling of herbe's would have been there all the same if I had been town after all-


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## Zori (Oct 2, 2022)

Spoiler: Novae - Villager Ability Blocker



*Player Character
Human with a Righteous Heart*
​
You are *the Player Character, the Human. *You win when all *Dark *players are dead.

One day, you woke up next to a lake with no memories of your previous life, only that you had one. You have a strong moral compass, and are willing to delve into Mystery Dungeons to save people you don't even know! This is how you met your first classmates at the Serene Village School. You want to get to the bottom of the mystery that's engulfed the village and, most importantly, save everybody from it.

On Night 0, *choose a Pokémon* from among the playable game characters to be your flavor. (This is all starters from Gens 1-6, plus Pikachu and Riolu.)

You have an intense drive to protect people from harm, even if you barely know them. Up to *three times per game, *at night, you may *describe an ability.* This description must include a *time of action*, such as "during the day, choose a player" or "during the night, choose a player." If your description matches *exactly one *ability in the game, that ability will *not function tonight.* If your description matches no ability, or multiple abilities, *nothing happens.


On Night 0, she became:*

*Fennekin
Human with a Righteous Heart*





You are *Fennekin, the Human. *You win when all *Dark *players are dead.

One day, you woke up next to a lake with no memories of your previous life, only that you had one. You have a strong moral compass, and are willing to delve into Mystery Dungeons to save people you don't even know! This is how you met your first classmates at the Serene Village School. You want to get to the bottom of the mystery that's engulfed the village and, most importantly, save everybody from it.

You have an intense drive to protect people from harm, even if you barely know them. Up to *three times per game, *at night, you may *describe an ability.* This description must include a *time of action*, such as "during the day, choose a player" or "during the night, choose a player." If your description matches *exactly one *ability in the game, that ability will *not function tonight.* If your description matches no ability, or multiple abilities, *nothing happens.*





Spoiler: Zero Moment - Villager Execution Backup



*The Partner
Serene Village "Problem Child"*
​
You are *the Partner, the Serene Village "Problem Child." *You win when all *Dark *players are dead.

You are a student who goes to Serene Village School. You live with your adoptive dad, Carracosta, who scolds you often, but you both care deeply about each other. You're on generally positive terms with most of the village (except a few who don't like your rambunctiousness), but you felt a vague disconnect between yourself and the other students, a gap that was only filled by the mysterious arrival of the Player some time later. You want to make as many friends as you can and are sometimes clingy to the ones you have, but everyone who you talk to can tell that you're a very genuine and passionate child.

On Night 0, *choose two Pokémon* from among the playable game characters, one of which will be your flavor. (This is all starters from Gens 1-6, plus Pikachu and Riolu.)

The guilt you have for killing is immense. Each night except for night 0, you will try to truly connect and understand the person who you... couldn't save. Couldn't absolve from guilt. You will be *prompted to use one of their abilities. *You *do not know what it is,* only the types of targets it takes, and whether it is *helpful, harmful, or neutral*. You feel their spirit lingering near... very tangibly, even if nobody else can. You *cannot kill.* If you would kill, you instead *learn who you would.*

Remember, for their sake...

*On Night 0, he became:*

*Riolu
Serene Village "Problem Child"*





You are *Riolu, the Serene Village "Problem Child." *You win when all *Dark *players are dead.

You are a student who goes to Serene Village School. You live with your adoptive dad, Carracosta, who scolds you often, but you both care deeply about each other. You're on generally positive terms with most of the village (except a few who don't like your rambunctiousness), but you felt a vague disconnect between yourself and the other students, a gap that was only filled by the mysterious arrival of the Player some time later. You want to make as many friends as you can and are sometimes clingy to the ones you have, but everyone who you talk to can tell that you're a very genuine and passionate child.

The guilt you have for killing is immense. Each night except for night 0, you will try to truly connect and understand the person who you... couldn't save. Couldn't absolve from guilt. You will be *prompted to use one of their abilities. *You *do not know what it is,* only the types of targets it takes, and whether it is *helpful, harmful, or neutral*. You feel their spirit lingering near... very tangibly, even if nobody else can. You *cannot kill.* If you would kill, you instead *learn who you would.*

Remember, for their sake...





Spoiler: Herbe - Villager Astrologist



*Jirachi
Expedition Society Astronomer*





You are *Jirachi, the Expedition Society Astronomer. *You win when all *Dark *players are dead.

A self-proclaimed genius, you work a job for the Expedition Society that suits you best. You love being alone with the stars and the planets. You like your fellow society members in all their quirky little personalities, but nothing can beat laying down and staring at the stars all day, even if they are a bit cryptic sometimes. You don't exactly know why the Expedition Society took a trip to Serene Village, but you're always ready to roll with it.

Each night, you will *learn a piece of cryptic information relating to the game's setup.* This action _can_ be roleblocked or otherwise tampered with.

*On Night 1, he became:*

*Jirachi
Expedition Society Astronomer?*





You are *Jirachi, the Expedition Society Astronomer? *You win when all *Dark *players are dead.

A self-proclaimed genius, you work a job for the Expedition Society that suits you best. You love being alone with the stars and the planets. You like your fellow society members in all their quirky little personalities, but nothing can beat laying down and staring at the stars all day, even if they are a bit cryptic sometimes. You don't exactly know why the Expedition Society took a trip to Serene Village, but you're always ready to roll with it.

You have a headache... so many incongruous thoughts... you can't remember...

You know the terrain of the woods around Serene Village like the back of your hand. You know how to avoid being spotted, how to set traps, how to navigate the trees... You kind of had a phase that you went through with that, but you can finally put it to a use. Each night, you may choose a player to be made a *bait *for one day. They *will* *know *about this and learn a vague paraphrase of your ability. *If the bait is executed tomorrow, *you may *lure* one of their voters into the woods and *kill them.*





Spoiler: JackPK - Villager Protective JoAT



*Deerling
Serene Village Socialite*





You are *Deerling, the Serene Village Socialite. *You win when all *Dark *players are dead.

Of the students who go to the Serene Village School, you are the most outgoing. You usually attempt to stand up for what you think is right, but you have a soft side too that just likely to be around the other students... maybe you just stand up for the people you pay attention to, but making them happy is the right thing to do, right? You like school life, and you don't want it to change one bit.

Each night, you may *choose one* of the following actions:

Invite a player over to just... play at a sleepover. They *cannot die tonight*, but are *roleblocked*. If they try to *kill* during this time, you die.
Invite a player to talk about feelings. They are *immune to abilities that all Dark players share* tonight.
Confess that you like a player. They *cannot die tonight*, but if you die tonight or tomorrow, they *lose all their abilities.*
You can only use each ability *once.

On Night 2, he became:*

*Deerling
Serene Village Socialite*





You are *Deerling, the Serene Village Socialite. *You win when all *Dark *players are dead.

Of the students who go to the Serene Village School, you are the most outgoing. You usually attempt to stand up for what you think is right, but you have a soft side too that just likely to be around the other students... maybe you just stand up for the people you pay attention to, but making them happy is the right thing to do, right? You like school life, and you don't want it to change one bit.

You have a headache... something feels... terribly wrong...

You know the terrain of the woods around Serene Village like the back of your hand. You know how to avoid being spotted, how to set traps, how to navigate the trees... You kind of had a phase that you went through with that, but you can finally put it to a use. Each night, you may choose a player to be made a *bait *for one day. They *will* *know *about this and learn a vague paraphrase of your ability. *If the bait is executed tomorrow, *you may *lure* one of their voters into the woods and *kill them.*





Spoiler: RedneckPhoenix - Villager Kill Blocker



*Pancham
Serene Village Bully*





You are *Pancham, the Serene Village Bully. *You win when all *Dark *players are dead.

You, along with your buddy Shelmet, like to push around the other students at the Serene Village School, with daring them to go into Mystery Dungeons as one of your favorites. You might seem cold and mean on the outside, but you actually care a lot about your classmates: life wouldn't really be the same without them, and despite what other people think of you, you want to do your best to be involved in fighting any mysterious curses that have befallen the village. You may be a little scared, but you're sure that there's _something_ you can do...

Each night, you may dare somebody to enter a Mystery Dungeon to pester them and keep them occupied while asserting your superiority. If they are *performing an action that would kill* someone else, they will *be stopped *from performing it, but they will *know that you visited them. *You *cannot* target the same player two nights in a row. may not want to be seen as weak, but you still want to help.





Spoiler: haneko - Villager Bodyguard / 1-Shot Limited Rolecop



*Buizel
Expedition Society Underwater Specialist*





You are *Buizel, the Expedition Society Guardian Angel. *You win when all *Dark *players are dead.

You work a job for the Expedition Society, and it was... decent. It feels nice to provide a skillset that the others in the society couldn't, but it was... somehow unfulfilling to you. You felt like something was missing. When those two showed up at the Society's doors, you felt something connect, something you didn't have before. You have an inkling of why the Expedition Society came to Serene Village. Those two are likely at the center of it, and you're ready to dive right in.

You know who *the Player Charater *and *their Partner* are here in Serene Village. You do not know their alignments. Each night, you may select one of them to *protect.* If they would die that night, you *die instead.*

Once per game, at night, you may *instead* decide to watch over them from all dangers. Select one of them to *learn their abilities.* Once this happens, you cannot use your previous ability. From then on, if they would die, you will die either *instead of* or *in addition to* them, depending on the ability that would have killed them.



*On Night 0, the Dark players could select their roles from among the following:*



Spoiler: M&F/qenya/Discard - Dark Role Guesser / Roleswapper




*Ampharos*
_Expedition Society Chief_
*The Dashing Wanderer*





​You are *Ampharos, Dashing Wanderer Turned to the Dark.* You win when you reach parity with the *Light* while at least one *Dark *player is alive.

You have an insatiable wanderlust, a desire to explore all parts of this world, and a feeling of being abnormal, disconnected from society: it was for this reason that you started the Expedition Society in Lively Town.  Things started off well, but your relationships with your fellow Expedition Socialites are... rocky. Your dramatic flair and airheaded persona constantly make you the butt of their jokes, and you feel incredible impostor syndrome being the head of a group that doesn't even acknowledge all the hard work you put in to build the Society from the ground up. You feel trapped, cornered... so you made a plan. You feel intense resentments towards the people who trampled over your dream... You'll get back at them. You have your methods. You have moles in the village. Your plan is already in motion.

Each night, you may use your exploratory senses to *guess somebody's role. *You will learn *how accurate you were *interpreted as a Pokémon move: higher power generally means more correct.

Additionally, up to twice per game at night, you may use your swagger to confuse your enemies or friends. Choose two players and *swap all their abilities*. These players do not have to be alive: you may also target the discarded rolecard. If you choose any player or that *does not belong to a living player, *it will be *publicly announced *that their rolecard was tampered with in some way. *Their win conditions will not change.*

This one is the integral part of the plan, the key thing that allowed all of your plan to fall into place around it. Each night, you or one of your teammates may give a player a *cursed Expedition Society badge.* This badge symbolises all you have gained and lost, all that you were given and all that was snatched away, slowly, insidiously.... your invisible resentment fills them overflowing with malice. You will not be ignored. The night they receive the badge, their body starts to stiffen and their dreams become more lucid: they are either *roleblocked *or *learn false information, *depending on their role. The night afterwards they will be *petrified, *dying *without their alignment being revealed.* This ability cannot be removed, traded, or copied in any way.





Spoiler: M&F/qenya/Discard - Dark Godfather Setup Oracle



*Espurr
Serene Village Psychic Spy*





​You are *Espurr, Serene Village Psychic Spy.* You win when you reach parity with the *Light* while at least one *Dark *player is alive.

You truly want to help the residents of Serene Village. You knew about Ampharos's bitter scheming from the moment he stepped foot in Serene Village: strong emotions read like an open book, even to non-psychics. And yet, the entirety of both the village and his Society seemed to... turn a blind eye to him? It felt really odd to you that they could be so entirely oblivious. You tried bringing it up to Deerling and co., but they dismissed you and started talking about something else. You don't want to hurt your friends. Far from it. You... just want them to be aware that people like Ampharos exist and that they should make him feel loved if its their place to, instead of brushing him off like everybody has been doing. Make him feel... not so incredibly alone. You're not in a good place to reach out to Ampharos directly, but you feel like supporting his plan is your best shot at waking up the villagers to not create more villains, villains that could be a lot more harmful than Ampharos...

Each night, you may use your psychic powers to read the minds of the villagers around you. Ask up to *2 questions* that can be answered with *one word.* This will be answered to the best of my ability. You *must* select one of these questions to be *posted publicly* at the start of the day, without the answer.

You understand and empathise with your fellow plotters, and see the paths their past selves could have taken instead. Once per game, at night, you may *learn what rolecards you and your known teammates would have* if they had been a Light character. (All rolecards were created, then alignments were randomised.)

Your mind is especially resilient to being probed. Each night, you may *submit a rolecard. *You *appear to be* this rolecard to most abilities *until you submit a different rolecard*. You also make sure to protect your physical environment as well as your mind: If you *die in the night*, your *alignment will not be revealed. *These abilities *cannot be blocked.*

Ampharos gave you a stash of these... Each night, you or one of your teammates may give a player a *cursed Expedition Society badge. *You don't know exactly what this does, but you sensed from Ampharos that they were critical to his plan...





Spoiler: M&F/qenya/Discard - Dark Bookie Vigilante



*Shelmet
Serene Village Vanguard*



You are *Shelmet, Serene Village Vanguard.* You win when you reach parity with the *Light* while at least one *Dark *player is alive.

You were Pancham's wingman since... a while ago. You both attended the Serene Village School as your first school, and you've helped him push other people around, hoping for some sort of recognition... you don't remember how it got like this. He always brushes you off, and everyone else at the school hates you. At least, the hateful glares you get from Deerling when Goomy started crying... Espurr's and the Player's disapproving glances in your direction... you felt lost, hopeless in the hole you created. You wanted to scream. You wanted to be noticed in the endless stream of the village's babbling gossip. You wanted to... cry. Break something. Show them how much it hurts. Ampharos, like fate's kind hand guided him, offered you an opportunity: you took it up without hesitation.

You know the terrain of the woods around Serene Village like the back of your hand. You know how to avoid being spotted, how to set traps, how to navigate the trees despite your lack of limbs... You kind of had a phase that you went through with that, but you can finally put it to a use. Each night, you may choose a player to be made a *bait *for one day. They *will* *know *about this and learn a vague paraphrase of your ability. *If the bait is executed tomorrow, *you may *lure* one of their voters into the woods and *kill them. *

Ampharos gave you a bunch of these... Each night, you or one of your teammates may give a player a *cursed Expedition Society badge. *You don't know exactly what this does, he said they were very important...


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## Zori (Oct 2, 2022)

im curious how you guys liked the setup fwiw
its the first one ive designed in a _long _time and i think it turned out okay
i think the 10p one would have been better but


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## Eifie (Oct 2, 2022)

JackPK said:


> haneko said:
> 
> 
> > Wow, I love trying to make an honest attempt at playing the game and have it called "stop trying to solve."
> ...


infamous?! excuse you?!

also, I am instituting a new rule that whenever someone talks about me they should tag me so that I may more easily bask in the attention, good or bad

also Keldeo owes me a drawing of Barfie  thanks MF!


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## JackPK (Oct 2, 2022)

oh my GOD it was qenya/M&F scumteam after all. HOW did my stupid brain create a wild hunch at the absolute last minute and have it be CORRECT (but also wrong because qenya's role was infuriatingly closer to what she actually claimed than what my wild hunch was)


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## JackPK (Oct 2, 2022)

good job qenya and M&F. clap emoji


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## M&F (Oct 2, 2022)

Eifie said:


> also Keldeo owes me a drawing of Barfie  thanks MF!


if the bet was hinging on mafia winning, all your thanks are belong to qenya tbh



JackPK said:


> oh my GOD it was qenya/M&F scumteam after all. HOW did my stupid brain create a wild hunch at the absolute last minute and have it be CORRECT (but also wrong because qenya's role was infuriatingly closer to what she actually claimed than what my wild hunch was)


well, in what were perhaps a couple of excessively honest posts back there, I wasn't kidding about the no risk-free choice thing, yeah?


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## Eifie (Oct 2, 2022)

M&F said:


> Eifie said:
> 
> 
> > also Keldeo owes me a drawing of Barfie  thanks MF!
> ...


no, the bet was on your alignment!


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## M&F (Oct 2, 2022)

Eifie said:


> M&F said:
> 
> 
> > Eifie said:
> ...


then thank zori--


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## Zero Moment (Oct 2, 2022)

aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa

I had a feeling this was game end


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## Eifie (Oct 2, 2022)

thank you everyone except MF!


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## M&F (Oct 2, 2022)

speaking of which, I have some stuff to stop procastinating on now, much as I'd like to rifle through the little details of the setup and give zori some proper feedback; hopefully some other time, if revisiting the topic later doesn't become too awkward. it's hard to gauge just from the actual performance, too, considering how much me and qenya got by on town misplays-


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## Zero Moment (Oct 2, 2022)

what a bastardly setup, I love it


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## qenya (Oct 2, 2022)

this is not gonna do wonders for my "everyone keeps scumreading me with very little justification" problem, is it


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## Eifie (Oct 2, 2022)

has anyone yet commented on the flavour because that ending was the cutest thing I have ever seen besides Wooloo


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## M&F (Oct 2, 2022)

oh yeah, forreal, the flavor in this game overall has been top of the fuckin' notch.


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## qenya (Oct 2, 2022)

Zori said:


> im curious how you guys liked the setup fwiw
> its the first one ive designed in a _long _time and i think it turned out okay
> i think the 10p one would have been better but


to give this some kind of answer... as much as i'm pleased with my performance, it did feel like there was slightly too much power on our team. my first attempt at my fake rolecard was pretty overpowered compared to the actual town roles because i was expecting everyone else to have multiple roles, like us. you could probably have nixed MF's roleswapping and my oracle definitely needed nerfing, a one-word answer is way too much information... there's a reason why it's usually just yes/no

just my initial spur-of-the-moment thoughts. maybe it would turn out different if you ran it a second time somewhere else


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## qenya (Oct 2, 2022)

and finally of course... thank you for running the game, zori! was a blast


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## Zori (Oct 2, 2022)

qenya said:


> to give this some kind of answer... as much as i'm pleased with my performance, it did feel like there was slightly too much power on our team. my first attempt at my fake rolecard was pretty overpowered compared to the actual town roles because i was expecting everyone else to have multiple roles, like us. you could probably have nixed MF's roleswapping and my oracle definitely needed nerfing, a one-word answer is way too much information... there's a reason why it's usually just yes/no


i think town partially got unlucky
we had a roleblocker, doctor, and a player that could block poison by describing it
town could have easily blocked _all_ your kills in another run if they found out the kill mechanism
which is why i put herbe's role in!
maybe i was too vague with it, idk


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## Zori (Oct 2, 2022)

it was a quite swingy game for sure
the town's abilities were simple-ish but pretty powerful
the one thing i did notice is that it probably could have used another info role to balance all the kill manipulation roles they had


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## RedneckPhoenix (Oct 2, 2022)

also replace the poison roleblock with a regular kill, i'd say

after 2 games in a row with them i can confidently say it is Not A Fun Role To Play With


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## haneko (Oct 3, 2022)

thank you for the game zori!

thoughts:

- flavour was really good! it made me nostalgic for my time spent playing mystery dungeon. I think it was pretty much my favourite thing about this game.
- I think some of the hints towards the custom game mechanics (like how you mentioned there was a way for town to do kills) were too vague to be understood. basically agree with you on that
- role pms was often vague


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## Novae (Oct 3, 2022)

novae loses by doing absolutely nothing!


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## Zori (Oct 3, 2022)

im glad that people liked the flavor!  
i spent a lot of time on it uwu


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## Zero Moment (Oct 3, 2022)

I'd be down with some proper bastard mafia sometime tbh
as long as it's proper bastard and not kaizo "oops all terrorists" bastard


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## Ys_ (Oct 3, 2022)

It was a fun game to watch! Good game everyone and ty Zori for hosting. :)


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## Eifie (Oct 3, 2022)

Zero Moment said:


> I'd be down with some proper bastard mafia sometime tbh
> as long as it's proper bastard and not kaizo "oops all terrorists" bastard


_whips out my notebook_ so, how bastard are we talking here...? (asking for a friend)


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## RedneckPhoenix (Oct 3, 2022)

Zero Moment said:


> I'd be down with some proper bastard mafia sometime tbh
> as long as it's proper bastard and not kaizo "oops all terrorists" bastard


he who lives in glass ought not cast stones


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## RedneckPhoenix (Oct 3, 2022)

anyways. i'm writing my next game still. it's less bastard and more horrifying role madness, but still.


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## RedneckPhoenix (Oct 3, 2022)

should sate some of you.


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