# Nidoran: Gender issue



## Lady Grimdour (Feb 1, 2009)

Since we already have gender-specific Pokemon evolutions(ie Ralts-Gallade, among others), wouldn't it make sense if both Nidoran genders were given the same Pokedex entry instead of being classed as different Pokemon? Their evolutions can stay separate, obviously.

Then we can have / - / - / instead of having separate evolution stages.

Also, the ability for Nidoqueen to breed with Nidoking.


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## Darksong (Feb 1, 2009)

Yes. The fact that only the child can breed is disturbing. o_O

I think that they keep it like this because if they just made Nidoran one Pokemon, then it would lessen the number of Pokemon. And, since the male and female evolutions are named differently anyway, why not have different Nidoran?


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## Lady Grimdour (Feb 1, 2009)

Darksong said:


> Yes. The fact that only the child can breed is disturbing. o_O
> 
> I think that they keep it like this because if they just made Nidoran one Pokemon, then it would lessen the number of Pokemon. And, since the male and female evolutions are named differently anyway, why not have different Nidoran?


Just for continuity, per se.

We already have the gender differences in D/P, so it sort of would make sense to retcon one of them.


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## Kai Lucifer (Feb 1, 2009)

But then that would destroy 2 pokemon from the original dex in a sense. Also, the name differences would make it hard for them to be genderised. The only reason they're like that was because there were no genders in the RGB series.


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## Lady Grimdour (Feb 1, 2009)

Kai said:


> But then that would destroy 2 pokemon from the original dex in a sense. Also, the name differences would make it hard for them to be genderised. The only reason they're like that was because there were no genders in the RGB series.


Well Nidorino/Nidorina don't need to be classed as one, just Nidoran. They should've done away with it once gender came in with everything.


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## Alexi (Feb 3, 2009)

Agree with breeding.

Not with combining.


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## Noctowl (Feb 3, 2009)

Alexi said:


> Agree with breeding.
> 
> Not with combining.


Same. I dunno, the thing that makes them special is that they are seperate...and I'd like them to stay that way.


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## nothing to see here (Feb 3, 2009)

I've always considered the Nidorans to be just male and female members of the same species (along with the other male/female split-species, like Illumise/Volbeat, Latios/Latias, Tauros/Miltank, and so on.)

It is a bit silly for the unevolved Nidorans to take up two Pokédex spaces... especially since they don't even have different _names,_ unlike all the other gender-split species and even their own evolved forms.  But since they've been that way since the first games, they're probably not ever going to fix it.  Same way with the Nidorina/Nidoqueen breeding issue--since it's been that way since G/S/C and they didn't change it in the 3rd-gen games, they probably aren't going to change it.  Either that or there's actually some top-secret reason why the adult female Nidos can't breed, which Nintendo/Gamefreak just hasn't told anyone about yet for whatever reason.

I guess the real question here isn't "Why don't they combine the two Nidorans into a single Pokémon with gender differences?"... it's more like "Why did they put a Pokémon that depends so heavily on gender differences into the games at a time when genders/gender differences didn't exist yet?"


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## Mudkipz (Feb 3, 2009)

I'd prefer if there was yet another Nidoran, one that was gender-nuetral and could breed with both other nidorans.


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## Pikachu Goddess (Feb 4, 2009)

> Originally Posted by Darksong
> Yes. The fact that only the child can breed is disturbing. o_O
> 
> I think that they keep it like this because if they just made Nidoran one Pokemon, then it would lessen the number of Pokemon. And, since the male and female evolutions are named differently anyway, why not have different Nidoran?


My thoughts exactly.


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## allitersonance (Feb 4, 2009)

It's kind of too late for that.

Anyway, I'd say probably not. They can just stay counterparts the way miltank is to tauros or illumise and volbeat. Although they look a lot more like the same species than the other counterpart pokemon, they do have differences, like different moves and stats.

Adult female nidos should be able to breed, of course.


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## Butterfree (Feb 4, 2009)

Uh, you couldn't combine Nidoran because they have _different stats_. Different moves. Functionally, they're two different Pokémon in every way except for sharing a line for the purposes of breeding; all other such Pokémon are also considered separate species.

But yes, Nidorina and Nidoqueen should be able to breed.


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## EvilCrazyMonkey (Feb 4, 2009)

Aren't Nidorina and Nidoqueen not allowed to breed because if they made male babies, it technically wouldn't be within their evolution line?
But then again, Nidoran (f) can breed, so.


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## nothing to see here (Feb 5, 2009)

> Uh, you couldn't combine Nidoran because they have different stats. Different moves. Functionally, they're two different Pokémon in every way except for sharing a line for the purposes of breeding; all other such Pokémon are also considered separate species.


But all of the Wormadam forms have those exact same differences between them.  Different types, different moves, and (if I remember right) they might even have different stats, but all three are counted as the same Pokémon in the Pokédex.  Heck, the Wormadam forms even have different TM compatibility lists, which is a difference that even the Nidorans don't have.

Actually, now that I think of it, _all_ of the other "same name, different form" Pokémon work that way... except the Nidorans.  I guess the only real problem with combining the Nidorans would be the empty slot you'd have in the National Pokédex order afterward... you can't just have an empty slot, but they they've never added a new Pokémon into an already-existing slot before either.


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## H20firefly (Feb 16, 2009)

EvilCrazyMonkey said:


> Aren't Nidorina and Nidoqueen not allowed to breed because if they made male babies, it technically wouldn't be within their evolution line?
> But then again, Nidoran (f) can breed, so.


no, because it is always the females first evolution stage that hatches from eggs

Nidorina and Nidoqueen should breed
Nidoran M/F should not be combined


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## Butterfree (Feb 16, 2009)

El Garbanzo said:


> But all of the Wormadam forms have those exact same differences between them.  Different types, different moves, and (if I remember right) they might even have different stats, but all three are counted as the same Pokémon in the Pokédex.  Heck, the Wormadam forms even have different TM compatibility lists, which is a difference that even the Nidorans don't have.
> 
> Actually, now that I think of it, _all_ of the other "same name, different form" Pokémon work that way... except the Nidorans.  I guess the only real problem with combining the Nidorans would be the empty slot you'd have in the National Pokédex order afterward... you can't just have an empty slot, but they they've never added a new Pokémon into an already-existing slot before either.


But those "same name, different form" Pokémon are _forms_, not genders. Forms are by definition different in significant ways; genders, on the other hand, just might have some body parts look slightly different and that's it.


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## Meowzie-chan (Feb 21, 2009)

I'm pretty sure that almost every Pokémon Forum EVER has gone through this debate since D/P came out. 

The answer will always be no. It's not going to happen.

But the breeding thing? WHY?! Why did Nintendo DO that back in GSC? Now we're stuck with it!


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## Zeph (Feb 21, 2009)

EvilCrazyMonkey said:


> Aren't Nidorina and Nidoqueen not allowed to breed because if they made male babies, it technically wouldn't be within their evolution line?
> But then again, Nidoran (f) can breed, so.


They'd probably just make it the same way Volbeat/Illumise breed - if the baby is female, it'll be a Nidoran(F), if it's male it'll be a Nidoran(M).


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## 1. Luftballon (Feb 22, 2009)

Zephyrous Castform said:


> They'd probably just make it the same way Volbeat/Illumise breed - if the baby is female, it'll be a Nidoran(F), if it's male it'll be a Nidoran(M).


Wait, the male offspring of an Illumise is a Volbeat?


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## Greenumbreon (Mar 4, 2009)

sreservoir said:
			
		

> Wait, the male offspring of an Illumise is a Volbeat?


Yeah, that's where I got my volbeat for my Emerald's Hoenn Dex, 'cause I couldn't find the damn thing anywhere else. I just bred my illumise, and got a volbeat on the first egg.

Religous dude on why NidoEvo can't evolve: "It is because the Lord Arceus made them them that way."
Me: "No, it's because Nintedo is very forgetful and way too consistent."
Religous dude: "ARCEUS MADE THEM THAT WAY! ACCEPT IT OR YOU'LL BE BURNED AT THE STAKE!"

Yeah, there's my thoughts.


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## Jdrawer (Mar 9, 2009)

El Garbanzo said:


> But all of the Wormadam forms have those exact same differences between them.  Different types, different moves, and (if I remember right) they might even have different stats, but all three are counted as the same Pokémon in the Pokédex.


No they're not!


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## EvilCrazyMonkey (Mar 10, 2009)

Wait are Volbeat and Illumise like single-gendered now or something.



Jdrawer said:


> No they're not!


Actually, they are counted as the same Pokémon.
While, yes, their appearances, types, movesets, and base stats are different, they actually count as one pokémon (nat. dex #413 / sinnoh dex #46). The pokédex (once upgraded right outside of – I think – Canalave City) will show the three forms in the "different forms" section or something.


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