# Double-Take Mafia



## Keldeo (Jul 6, 2018)

At the end of another normal day, a flyer appears on the town bulletin board.



> Theme song (thanks Stryke!)
> 
> All role PMs have been sent out! Let me know if you didn't get your role or have a question about it.
> 
> *It is now Night 0. 48 hours for night actions.*


The strange message brings about some discussion, but no one will admit to posting it. The villagers head to bed, confused but not yet fearful.


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## Keldeo (Jul 8, 2018)

Quick night phase extension because I'm still waiting on a couple more actions. You can also tell me if you don't want to do anything tonight.


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## Keldeo (Jul 8, 2018)

In the morning, another mysterious flyer appears, even before the earliest wakers check the bulletin board.

As the townspeople congregate in the square, someone strikes up a discussion... 



> Someone lost this ability:
> 
> - Network: (active, nightly, single target) You may communicate freely with your target only during the day phase immediately after you use this ability. You can't communicate with anyone who's eliminated, and you can't target the same person on consecutive nights with this ability.
> 
> *It is now Day 1. 96 hours for discussion.*


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## Eifie (Jul 8, 2018)

:|

I am shocked. (I am not shocked.)


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## Eifie (Jul 8, 2018)

To clarify: that was my ability, and I lost it, and I also learned that RedNeckPhoenix visited me last night. It is probably not that easy, but there you go.


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## Eifie (Jul 9, 2018)

somebody talk to me pls


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## Zero Moment (Jul 9, 2018)

Damn, that sounded like a pretty good power.


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## RedneckPhoenix (Jul 9, 2018)

ooooo0 spooky visitation

In all seriousness, that was totally me. The murdering-ness wasn't, though.


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## Eifie (Jul 9, 2018)

RedneckPhoenix said:


> ooooo0 spooky visitation
> 
> In all seriousness, that was totally me. The murdering-ness wasn't, though.


Want to tell us what you did do?


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## RedneckPhoenix (Jul 10, 2018)

I visited you. Just. Visited your house. 'Sall the power does, is let you know I visited you in the night.


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## Eifie (Jul 10, 2018)

RedneckPhoenix said:


> I visited you. Just. Visited your house. 'Sall the power does, is let you know I visited you in the night.


I'm guessing that action is mandatory?


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## Stryke (Jul 10, 2018)

Frankly, I think the theme song is ballin; truly one of the 21st centurys classics.

Incidentally, I had a very uneventful night; nothing happened on my end.


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## Butterfree (Jul 10, 2018)

Hmm. It is interesting to be able to talk with the 'victim' of the night. Presumably you didn't activate anything that'd tell you who targeted you, then, Eifie? It was kind of a glaring omission to not make that clear initially - you made it sound like you did some kind of tracking, but if not, then that seems to corroborate RedneckPhoenix's account - a killing power that tells the victim they were targeted seems pretty impractical in this setup (unless he just happened to have a second passive ability that does that).


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## Eifie (Jul 10, 2018)

I intentionally didn't say how I'd found that out to see how RNP would react. I totally buy his claim.


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## Eifie (Jul 10, 2018)

Eifie said:


> I intentionally didn't say how I'd found that out to see how RNP would react. I totally buy his claim.


To be clear (I should not post at 7:30 am immediately after waking up), I did not do any kind of tracking.


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## sanderidge (Jul 10, 2018)

checking in! i'm feeling much more myself now that i'm home from AX, so i should be able to talk a decent amount now. 

i don't have anything to add to discussion, though.


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## Flora (Jul 12, 2018)

I am alive, in some definition of the word!

Anyway: Oof, that power loss sounds Rough. Sadly, I ain’t got nothin to report, so...


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## Eifie (Jul 12, 2018)

So, good talk, everyone. It would be kind of nice to do something today since everyone has two lives anyway so we can be a bit less cautious (and I am worried about dying tonight), but I guess it's too late for that...


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## Keldeo (Jul 13, 2018)

The discussion continues, but no clear suspects emerge. The townspeople mill about the square some more before walking back to their homes for the night.

*No one died.

It is now Night 1. 48 hours for night actions.*


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## Keldeo (Jul 13, 2018)

A few clarifications:

- No ability has the exact same flavor name as another in this game and anyone who loses an ability in the night will also be notified.
- Any killing actions are resolved at the end of the night, so night actions will complete even if the owner loses the ability in the same night. It is possible to lose both abilities in one phase if someone is killed twice, is killed once and loses the other ability through another effect, etc.


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## Keldeo (Jul 15, 2018)

The sun rises on, unsurprisingly, another flyer detailing another ability. A quick headcount reveals everyone is still present, however.



> - Intercept: (active, nightly, single target) If your target is killed overnight or in the day phase immediately after you use this ability, they will survive and you will lose this ability. You can't target the same person on consecutive nights with this ability.
> 
> *It is now Day 2. 96 hours for discussion.*


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## Stryke (Jul 15, 2018)

Huh. Looks like we got a successful mafia block, which is pretty sweet. Anyone wanna take credit?


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## Flora (Jul 15, 2018)

Hey! It was me! That was mine!

Someone really wants Eifie dead, I guess.


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## Eifie (Jul 15, 2018)

Flora said:


> Hey! It was me! That was mine!
> 
> Someone really wants Eifie dead, I guess.


Oh... haha... awkward...

So, uh, I thought I was going to die last night since the mafia needs to actually eliminate people, so I yolo'd (yolt'd?) my other ability (one-shot kill) on Flora.

I picked Flora at random out of the 4 people I didn't have reason to feel good about, figuring I had a 50/50 chance, which is pretty good. People I do feel good about:

The person I targeted with my ability the first night, because the first thing I did was grill them over IM so that I could get instant responses, meaning they can't have had the chance to consult with anyone else before telling me their powers. Their tone sounded really genuine to me, and again, I gave them basically zero chance to actually think about their responses before sending them.
RNP - it would be pretty silly of a mafia member to target their intended kill for the night with an ability that lets them know you're targeting them. That'd just call unnecessary attention to you.

So that means a kill actually was blocked last night! Conveniently, the person I talked to yesterday has a roleblocking ability, so I suggest they come out and tell us who they targeted with it. Or they could have targeted me since I told them I intended to shoot Flora, and then the mafia targeted either Flora or me, in which case keep quiet, I guess.


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## sanderidge (Jul 15, 2018)

hello! given that eif is confirmed town (bc she died a little), i feel pretty okay about going ahead and saying that im the one with the roleblock. i blocked phoenix last night (lowkey just to see what would happen) and I'm not gonna jump to conclusions about that, but. putting it out there.


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## Eifie (Jul 15, 2018)

sanderidge said:


> hello! given that eif is confirmed town (bc she died a little), i feel pretty okay about going ahead and saying that im the one with the roleblock. i blocked phoenix last night (lowkey just to see what would happen) and I'm not gonna jump to conclusions about that, but. putting it out there.


Huh. Maybe I should be revising my opinion on RNP, then, since he has some sort of possible connection to two kills now...

Of course, there's also the possibility of something else stopping the mafia kill. In a bit of a hurry right now, but I'll think about this more later.


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## Butterfree (Jul 15, 2018)

Flora said:


> Hey! It was me! That was mine!
> 
> Someone really wants Eifie dead, I guess.


Was Intercept your first or second ability?


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## Zero Moment (Jul 15, 2018)

sanderidge said:


> hello! given that eif is confirmed town (bc she died a little), i feel pretty okay about going ahead and saying that im the one with the roleblock. i blocked phoenix last night (lowkey just to see what would happen) and I'm not gonna jump to conclusions about that, but. putting it out there.


Did you block me N0? I got notified that my action had no effect then.


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## sanderidge (Jul 15, 2018)

i... 

okay, this is embarassing, but apparently i did? i thought i'd forgotten to send in an action (bc i was away at the con and missed the night phase) but now that i check my sent messages i'd asked keldeo a question before i left and also sent in an action with my reply.

more specifically, it was phrased "block zm if this reply still gets to you in time, and idle if not", so i guess i assumed it didn't work? 

well. so. thats that.


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## Eifie (Jul 16, 2018)

Shower thought: is it possible for Flora to have eaten both kills, but only lost one ability? Depending on the order of night actions, if Intercept was Flora's first ability, it could technically work out:


 I shoot Flora
 Flora loses her first ability (Intercept)
 Mafia shoots me
 Flora's action still goes through, so according to the description of her ability: I survive and Flora loses this ability (Intercept). So actually nothing happens, because she can't lose Intercept again.

Kind of contrived, but it'd be interesting if that's what happened. Maybe it's the kind of thing Flora could ask Keldeo about. Relatedly, I know I wasn't roleblocked or anything along those lines, because I got confirmation that my shot was used up and Keldeo told me that my shot wouldn't be used if I got blocked.

(Also, heads up: I am having surgery first thing tomorrow morning () and I am getting conflicting reports on how long I will be in indescribable pain/high as a kite, so I might not be around tomorrow.)


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## Flora (Jul 16, 2018)

Butterfree said:


> Was Intercept your first or second ability?


‘Twas my first!


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## Eifie (Jul 16, 2018)

(lol jk I'm basically all right now, but don't really feel up to thinking)

Since my brain is demanding a break right now: does anyone else have any opinions on RNP having some sort of connection to two night kills/attempts now? To recap: him having targeted me on the first night, and sande's blocking him corresponding to a missing mafia kill (unless that contrived situation I mentioned yesterday is what happened). Personally, I think it's probably a coincidence and something else interfered with the mafia kill.


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## RedneckPhoenix (Jul 16, 2018)

oh hey is that why stryke isn't all freaked out this morning


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## RedneckPhoenix (Jul 16, 2018)

(sh. i didn't mean to hit the submit button yet.)
Anyways I tried to visit Stryke last night; Guess I got blocked. I just assumed Stryke didn't feel like telling everyone he got visited.


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## Stryke (Jul 16, 2018)

RedneckPhoenix said:


> (sh. i didn't mean to hit the submit button yet.)
> Anyways I tried to visit Stryke last night; Guess I got blocked. I just assumed Stryke didn't feel like telling everyone he got visited.


Yeah, you must've been blocked; I never got messages about you visiting me.


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## Butterfree (Jul 16, 2018)

Hrmmm.

Eifie's posts today don't quite make sense to me, and it's making me wary.



Eifie said:


> Oh... haha... awkward...
> 
> So, uh, I thought I was going to die last night since the mafia needs to actually eliminate people, so I yolo'd (yolt'd?) my other ability (one-shot kill) on Flora.
> 
> ...


So if Eifie is telling the truth here, there are two straightforward possible scenarios that could have happened last night (discounting more outlandish possibilities involving more role complications):

1) Eifie was targeted by the mafia, Flora lost her ability because she intercepted that kill, and Eifie's attempted kill on Flora was blocked by some other means (or potentially was also counted as "targeting" the Intercept ability).

2) Eifie's attempted kill on Flora took her Intercept ability, and the mafia kill was blocked by some other means.

Eifie suggests sanderidge should reveal who they blocked, unless they targeted her. This suggests Eifie is assuming scenario 2 - in scenario 1 the mafia _wasn't_ blocked, so sande's target wouldn't tell us anything (unless it _were_ Eifie, but Eifie instructs them to keep quiet if that's the case). I found this a little weird, since scenario 1 was the first one I thought of - wouldn't it be pretty natural to assume the mafia did target Eifie and that thus a non-Eifie sande target isn't that likely to be relevant? This isn't necessarily incriminating, but I was surprised at her apparent thought process here.



Eifie said:


> Shower thought: is it possible for Flora to have eaten both kills, but only lost one ability? Depending on the order of night actions, if Intercept was Flora's first ability, it could technically work out:
> 
> 
> I shoot Flora
> ...


But _then_ she mentions actually she knows she wasn't roleblocked or anything and got confirmation that her shot was used up. Why didn't she mention this in the previous post, where she _explicitly brought up the possibility that maybe sande blocked her_? That really doesn't seem like a simple oversight - if you know your shot went through, you probably aren't going to speculate about the possibility you were blocked without remembering that. What reason could there have been to expressly choose to withhold this information and indicate that maybe she _was_ blocked? This is pretty weird to me.


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## Eifie (Jul 16, 2018)

I didn't know at the start of the day, because Keldeo forgot to send my the confirmation PM. I asked about it later.


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## Eifie (Jul 16, 2018)

Eifie said:


> I didn't know at the start of the day, because Keldeo forgot to send my the confirmation PM. I asked about it later.


Checked the timestamps and wait, misremembering. A bit after the day started but before I posted, I asked if I would get a confirmation PM and Keldeo was like whoops, yeah, forgot. Then the next day it occurred to me that maybe I wouldn't lose my shot if I'd been roleblocked, so I asked about it.

Also, re: the first point: not really? I think the natural thing to assume is that my kill went through, especially since I knew the identity of a roleblocker and was _pretty _ sure they would not block me. The double Interceptor loss didn't occur to me until a while after that, when I posted about it.


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## Butterfree (Jul 18, 2018)

Eifie said:


> Checked the timestamps and wait, misremembering. A bit after the day started but before I posted, I asked if I would get a confirmation PM and Keldeo was like whoops, yeah, forgot. Then the next day it occurred to me that maybe I wouldn't lose my shot if I'd been roleblocked, so I asked about it.
> 
> Also, re: the first point: not really? I think the natural thing to assume is that my kill went through, especially since I knew the identity of a roleblocker and was _pretty _ sure they would not block me. The double Interceptor loss didn't occur to me until a while after that, when I posted about it.


Ahhh, that makes sense, then. That correction also reads very genuine and like an unlikely thing to fake as mafia, so that makes me feel better about you.

On to the next mild thing of note, then:



RedneckPhoenix said:


> (sh. i didn't mean to hit the submit button yet.)
> Anyways I tried to visit Stryke last night; Guess I got blocked. I just assumed Stryke didn't feel like telling everyone he got visited.


Here you're implying you saw Stryke's post before learning you were blocked. Assuming Stryke just didn't feel like telling everyone he got visited seems funny. Is there a reason you didn't post then?


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## Keldeo (Jul 20, 2018)

The discussion remains inconclusive as night falls on the town.

*No one died.

It is now Night 2. 48 hours for night actions.*

(Also, if you are having trouble with activity and would like the day phases to be longer, or you think they're too long and want them to be shorter, please let me know! I picked 4 days pretty much at random and it looks like discussion is losing steam near the ends of phases.)


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## Keldeo (Jul 22, 2018)

The townspeople return to the square for what seems another totally normal morning, until someone notices that one person is missing.



> *Flora, the Town-aligned Diviner, has been eliminated.* Flora had the following abilities:
> 
> - Intercept: (active, nightly, single target) If your target is killed overnight or in the day phase immediately after you use this ability, they will survive and you will lose this ability. You can't target the same person on consecutive nights with this ability.
> 
> - Prophesy: (active, nightly, single target) When you lose this ability, one of your most recent target's abilities will be revealed publicly along with their name. If your target hasn't lost any abilities, it will be their first ability. If they have lost their first ability, it will be their second ability. You do not need to designate a new target every night, but if your target has been eliminated since you designated them, nothing will be revealed.


Upon further examination, the townspeople find another paper haphazardly pinned to the bulletin board, underneath the daily flyer. It's written in Flora's distinctive handwriting:



> Eifie has this ability.
> 
> - Pull Strings: (active, once in the game, single target) If you use this ability during a night phase, your target will be killed at the end of the night. If you use this ability during a day phase, your target will be killed as soon as the host processes your action, and the day's duration and vote count will be reset. You may only use this ability once, but using it doesn't count as losing it for the purposes of elimination.


*It is now Day 3. 96 hours for discussion.*


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## Eifie (Jul 22, 2018)

Oof. Well, that kill wasn't all that surprising, since I already said in the thread that I had no powers left. We really should get to doing something. Does anyone have thoughts on like, anyone?

I'm thinking something like this:

Probably town:
- sanderidge: Like I said before, I found her pretty genuine when I talked to her privately, although this doesn't really mean anything to the rest of you.

Leaning town:
- RNP: A bit more uncertain now, but what I said before (him targeting the person to be killed with his visiting power would be pretty strange if he was mafia) still stands.
- Butterfree: I like her questions. A mafia could ask them too, but eh, leaning town for now.

No opinion, because they've barely done anything:
- Zero Moment
- Stryke

I wouldn't be opposed to lynching one of the bottom two.


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## Butterfree (Jul 22, 2018)

RedneckPhoenix, whom did you target last night?

Eifie, out of curiosity, what's your role name?

Keldeo, how does lynching work in this game - does the person just lose one ability, or do they actually die?


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## Eifie (Jul 22, 2018)

Socialite.


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## Keldeo (Jul 22, 2018)

Butterfree said:


> Keldeo, how does lynching work in this game - does the person just lose one ability, or do they actually die?


The person loses one ability.


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## sanderidge (Jul 22, 2018)

frowns. i blocked flora last night, but as we can all see, that didn't do anything. i asked keldeo about it, and my action was definitely received, but the answer specifically said i can't be confirmed as to whether it went through or not? i guess we have a swappy role?


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## Eifie (Jul 22, 2018)

sanderidge said:


> frowns. i blocked flora last night, but as we can all see, that didn't do anything. i asked keldeo about it, and my action was definitely received, but the answer specifically said i can't be confirmed as to whether it went through or not? i guess we have a swappy role?


Actually, now it makes a bit more sense why we got information on me. Maybe it used Flora's target from the previous night instead; it does say one of her most recent targets. She could have used both her actions on me, or maybe her bodyguard target counted for the other thing too?

This isn't really well-thought-out right now because typing everything I'm thinking from my phone is too much effort, so maybe I'll write something better later.


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## Eifie (Jul 22, 2018)

Oh, also it says you do not need to designate a new target each night.


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## RedneckPhoenix (Jul 23, 2018)

I. I targeted. Flora.

Either this is the biggest coincidence I've ever seen, or there's some crazy fuckery going on that I'm not aware of. Is there some sort of role that lets you replace someone's role with a kill or something of the sort, or am I just the unluckiest person to ever live?


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## Butterfree (Jul 23, 2018)

Huh. Well, that'd explain why no one was speaking up to say they were targeted by you. Is there a reason you went for Flora?

It occurred to me too that the way Flora's action is described could possibly mean blocking it just means blocking the latest target switch, but it does seem sort of a weird way for it to function, hrrmmmm.

I'm wondering how many mafia members there might be in the game. I was thinking two would be normal for a game of seven here, but if we have to lynch each of them twice, that means we'd have to lynch correctly _four_ times, which I think would make the game _significantly_ harder for town - after all, we don't actually know the person's alignment after we lynch them the first time, since the actual abilities aren't supposed to necessarily be alignment-indicative, so each of those four times is still pretty much equivalent to getting a single lynch right in a normal mafia game. I need to brush up on my probability theory, but even with everyone having two lives, with us having only some chance of getting each lynch right while the mafia is sure to hit a town member each night, I'm pretty sure this significantly skews things the mafia's way. So, assuming Keldeo accounted for this, maybe we only have a single mafia member here? That'd be nice.

Let's definitely lynch someone today. I'd be okay with Zero Moment or Stryke, unless they have something mindblowing to say.


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## sanderidge (Jul 23, 2018)

it really would be nice if there was only one mafia, then we only have to guess correctly once, then we can lynch again the next day and win! unless they have some sort of multiple kill ability? but that seems overpowered. 

at any rate, given the possibility of just one mafia (and/or the possibility of having to rat out and lynch more than that), i also think we should lynch today? zm or stryke sounds good to me!


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## Eifie (Jul 23, 2018)

Butterfree said:


> I'm wondering how many mafia members there might be in the game. I was thinking two would be normal for a game of seven here, but if we have to lynch each of them twice, that means we'd have to lynch correctly _four_ times, which I think would make the game _significantly_ harder for town - after all, we don't actually know the person's alignment after we lynch them the first time, since the actual abilities aren't supposed to necessarily be alignment-indicative, so each of those four times is still pretty much equivalent to getting a single lynch right in a normal mafia game. I need to brush up on my probability theory, but even with everyone having two lives, with us having only some chance of getting each lynch right while the mafia is sure to hit a town member each night, I'm pretty sure this significantly skews things the mafia's way. So, assuming Keldeo accounted for this, maybe we only have a single mafia member here? That'd be nice.


There are other ways of balancing things, most significantly (imo) that investigative roles can happily investigate away until they lose one power, and only then reveal themselves to give us their info. It's hard to think about how much each player having two lives skews things one way or another, but I'd be surprised if there was only one mafia member. I've been wondering about this too.


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## Zero Moment (Jul 23, 2018)

_"Working the streets is tough. Always is, no matter where you are. Places like these are tougher, though. I got a better track record than most, so I got called in for this one. Problem is? The townsfolk ain't in a cooperative mood. You ask, they don't tell. The local fuzz clammed up, too. Can't even go the, uh, 'dubiously legal' route, either, with all these fancy security systems everyone's got hooked up nowadays. So I had to go with Ol' Unreliable—stakeout and stalking. An' unreliable is just as it's proven to be, seeing as I've got squat to show for my work. First night went bad- some stranger caught me as I was setting up, had to bail since my cover was blown. Next two nights went smoothly, for all the good that did. No usable information, as far as I can tell. But hey, that's the gig.

So there's my life story. Now would you kindly get that light outta my face?"_


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## sanderidge (Jul 23, 2018)

what does thst mean


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## Stryke (Jul 23, 2018)

_A fighter
A sighter
Two friends on the phone.
A talker
A blocker
Now I think we're done.

But wait! Just pause! There's one more I forgot.
One little inspector, among the lot.
Stryking at night, with knowledge to accrue;
Can you guess which character matches up to who?_


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## Butterfree (Jul 23, 2018)

Well, they sure had something mindblowing to say, I guess. Zero Moment seems to be claiming some kind of investigative role (tracker?) and Stryke inspector? Can you elaborate upon what your actions have been thus far?



			
				sanderidge said:
			
		

> it really would be nice if there was only one mafia, then we only have to guess correctly once, then we can lynch again the next day and win! unless they have some sort of multiple kill ability? but that seems overpowered.


We won't know that we guessed correctly after the first time, though. The mafia kill is separate from the actual abilities, so that's not going to be revealed.


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## sanderidge (Jul 23, 2018)

Butterfree said:


> We won't know that we guessed correctly after the first time, though. The mafia kill is separate from the actual abilities, so that's not going to be revealed.


heckin heck i keep forgetting that bit entirely. ugh.


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## Stryke (Jul 23, 2018)

Butterfree said:


> Well, they sure had something mindblowing to say, I guess. Zero Moment seems to be claiming some kind of investigative role (tracker?) and Stryke inspector? Can you elaborate upon what your actions have been thus far?


Yeah, as I inferred, I am an inspector. I can find out anyone's first abilities, or second ability if they already lost their first. Speaking of which, I've already figured out everyone's first abilities, and they're all there in the poem (including Eifie and Flora's, even though we all already know what they are), so feel free to use that information as you wish. I'm not explicitly revealing what anyone's first ability is without their permission though; I don't want to roleclaim for any of you guys before you yourself are ready to.


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## Eifie (Jul 24, 2018)

Well, none of those sound like RNP's sleepwalking thing. If his first ability is the one I'm guessing it is, I'm pretty curious about it. RNP, want to tell us anything?


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## Butterfree (Jul 24, 2018)

Well, my first ability is definitely in there and there's no other way for him to know, so Stryke's claim is bulletproof as far as I'm concerned.

Zero Moment, exactly how does your role work and whom did you target?


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## Butterfree (Jul 24, 2018)

Stryke said:


> Yeah, as I inferred, I am an inspector. I can find out anyone's first abilities, or second ability if they already lost their first. Speaking of which, I've already figured out everyone's first abilities, and they're all there in the poem (including Eifie and Flora's, even though we all already know what they are), so feel free to use that information as you wish. I'm not explicitly revealing what anyone's first ability is without their permission though; I don't want to roleclaim for any of you guys before you yourself are ready to.


Wait a minute. How have you inspected everyone? It's only day three.


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## Stryke (Jul 24, 2018)

Butterfree said:


> Wait a minute. How have you inspected everyone? It's only day three.


Well, Eifie and Flora have already had their first abilities revealed, so that's 2, and I've inspected 3 people so far, so that makes 5. As for #6, well, one of the abilities I saw was "Phone a Friend", where you can have out of thread communications with another designated player on here (Not saying who has the ability or who the designated player is for obvious reasons). So, I figure that person #6 must also have the Phone a Friend as a first ability, since there's no good reason it would be a second ability if the other person with it has it as their first.


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## Butterfree (Jul 24, 2018)

Thank you! I actually worked that out like a minute after I posted it, but wanted you to answer in case it was something like a slip about knowing a mafia partner's ability.

So, we feel comfortable revealing that sande and I are the friends on the phone. While I don't know their alignment and can't 100% trust them, I can confirm they've been very responsive on Telegram and seem pretty genuine.


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## Zero Moment (Jul 24, 2018)

Butterfree said:


> Well, my first ability is definitely in there and there's no other way for him to know, so Stryke's claim is bulletproof as far as I'm concerned.
> 
> Zero Moment, exactly how does your role work and whom did you target?


My first ability is Watch. It is literally the Watcher role's ability. I targeted you on N0 (blocked), Eifie N1 (only targeted by Flora), and sanderidge N2 (not targeted by anyone).

I'll assume you weren't asking about my second ability, in case it's not wise to reveal it yet (I'll note that most people haven't claimed theirs), but I will reveal it if asked.
I will say, however, that my second ability is mutually-exclusive with my first, and as such I haven't used it yet.


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## RedneckPhoenix (Jul 24, 2018)

"a talker" sounds like me


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## RedneckPhoenix (Jul 24, 2018)

Oh, wait, first abilities, huh.

I got challenge.


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## Eifie (Jul 24, 2018)

Only targeted by Flora, huh? So that means the mafia kill that night was definitely blocked somehow...

Does anyone have any insight on what could have happened there? Otherwise maybe we should be looking into RNP, who, incidentally, seems to be the fighter Stryke was talking about.


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## Butterfree (Jul 24, 2018)

RedneckPhoenix said:


> Oh, wait, first abilities, huh.
> 
> I got challenge.


Challenge? Is that The Thing?

I'd assume Eifie was the talker, what with her verified first ability being to pick someone to talk with.


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## Eifie (Jul 25, 2018)

Man, I'd forgotten about The Thing. Nya ha, good times!


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## sanderidge (Jul 25, 2018)

apparently my 2am shitpost did not go through and i am back like a day later to say yes i am a friend constantly on the phone with bfree

also, what's the thing??


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## Zero Moment (Jul 25, 2018)

So, Stryke and I have claimed now, and I assume neither of us look like good candidates to lynch. The only person I can think of that looks at all suspicious is RP, should we have him do a full claim, since he's only really hinted at what he's got?


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## Butterfree (Jul 25, 2018)

Yeah, that sounds good.


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## RedneckPhoenix (Jul 26, 2018)

aight
so
Challenge, that's my first'un. I choose someone during the day and you can only vote for me or them. The other one is, as stated, Impress, which lets me visit someone each night and let em know I visited them. That's also the one I think something screwy is happening with, because whenever I use it, they seem to get attacked. I dunno.


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## Butterfree (Jul 26, 2018)

Okay, so you used it on Eifie N0 and Flora N2. Who did you use it on N1?


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## RedneckPhoenix (Jul 26, 2018)

Stryke


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## Eifie (Jul 26, 2018)

So RNP, you never answered Butterfree's question last game day either, did you?



Butterfree said:


> On to the next mild thing of note, then:
> 
> 
> Here you're implying you saw Stryke's post before learning you were blocked. Assuming Stryke just didn't feel like telling everyone he got visited seems funny. Is there a reason you didn't post then?


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## Keldeo (Jul 26, 2018)

Just a heads-up that I won't be able to update tonight or tomorrow, so the deadline's extended until around 5:30 pm PDT on July 27, a little over 46 hours from this post.


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## RedneckPhoenix (Jul 26, 2018)

I don't remember, honestly. Maybe I just forgot about the game or summat.


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## Eifie (Jul 27, 2018)

Okay, well, we have about 24 hours left, and I guess no one has anything they want to say about the lack of mafia kill the second night? Assuming the mafia wouldn't just randomly abstain from killing, that makes RNP look real bad, since if ZM's not lying Flora definitely can't have eaten both kills. Ugh, but I feel like RNP is just making himself look way too suspicious to actually be a mafia member??

Blah, I'll just vote *RedNeckPhoenix* for now. I am absolutely open to other options.


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## Zero Moment (Jul 27, 2018)

*RedneckPhoenix *looks right to me.


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## RedneckPhoenix (Jul 27, 2018)

Meh, I'll never get to use this otherwise. Eifie seems the most suspicious to me, what with being able to pull strings and being rather enthusiastic to start lynching.

*I challenge Eifie.*


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## Keldeo (Jul 27, 2018)

_"It's time to duel!"_

In the midst of conversation, a fight breaks out!

*The day's duration and vote count have been reset. Votes may only be cast for RedneckPhoenix or Eifie today.

96 more hours for discussion.*


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## Keldeo (Jul 27, 2018)

Forgot to clarify: discussion may continue as normal, so you can post things besides a vote for RedneckPhoenix or Eifie.


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## sanderidge (Jul 27, 2018)

huh. well, *RedneckPhoenix* anyway.


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## Zero Moment (Jul 27, 2018)

Yup. *RedneckPhoenix*.


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## RedneckPhoenix (Jul 27, 2018)

i'm satisfied now 

i knew i was getting got i just didnt want to waste my ability


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## Eifie (Jul 27, 2018)

Nya ha! Have some death! (Ahem, if every other one of my posts is a Henry quote, it's because I'm replaying Awakening for the first time in 5 years.)

*RedneckPhoenix* again.


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## Butterfree (Jul 28, 2018)

Hmm, okay.

My second ability is healing, and on the second night I healed RedneckPhoenix. That seems to make it fairly likely that RedneckPhoenix was the mafia target and that that's where the mafia kill went. That would also mean RedneckPhoenix is very unlikely to be mafia. Sooo I'm actually going to go *Eifie*, I think.


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## Eifie (Jul 28, 2018)

Butterfree said:


> Hmm, okay.
> 
> My second ability is healing, and on the second night I healed RedneckPhoenix. That seems to make it fairly likely that RedneckPhoenix was the mafia target and that that's where the mafia kill went. That would also mean RedneckPhoenix is very unlikely to be mafia. Sooo I'm actually going to go *Eifie*, I think.


Well, this sudden change doesn't make any sense to me. Why do you think it's so much more likely that the kill was prevented by your heal than by sande's block? It would make sense if you also gave some _other_ reason for preferring lynching me over RNP,  because now we have equal amounts of evidence pointing to him being mafia and not mafia, but you haven't. Instead you're voting for someone who was targeted by the mafia the first night? As far as I can tell RNP and I should be basically equal in your eyes, since the reasoning you just applied to him also applies to me.

A couple of pages ago you even posted to agree with ZM about RNP seeming like our best lead and pushed him to make a full claim, which makes this even more bizarre. It looks like you're just looking for an excuse to vote either not RNP, or me in particular.


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## sanderidge (Jul 28, 2018)

i'm thinking i agree with eifie more on this, actually, partly because the quote "i'm satisfied now  / i knew i was getting got i just didnt want to waste my ability" doesn't. sound town to me (it sounds like someone who's given up?) 

and, well. given that contrived set of coincidences with the house visits + my block + no death, changing to lynch someone else now seems like a really sudden turn. so my vote's staying the same if/until anything else comes up.


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## Butterfree (Jul 28, 2018)

Oookay, looks like I misread when I was skimming through the thread earlier; I read sanderidge's post about blocking Flora last night like it was about N1, which would've meant it couldn't be sande's block that stopped the mafia kill. Never mind!

In that case, I'll go with *RedneckPhoenix*.


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## Eifie (Jul 29, 2018)

Heh, well, I don't think mafia you would backpedal like that, so okay, I'll accept that for now. A little strange because we've talked about that block more than once in the context of the missing kill (at least, I've asked if anyone had any other explanations several times), but eh, I'll look over that discussion later and see.


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## Stryke (Jul 29, 2018)

Guess that leaves my vote; you probably already know who I'm thinking though. Sorry, *RedneckPhoenix*.


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## RedneckPhoenix (Jul 30, 2018)

I salute thee! Though I am innocent, it was a valiant effort! Never be afraid of failure!

Let it be known that *RedneckPhoenix* dies with pride! I shall meet you all in the afterlife when the mafia kills us all.


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## Keldeo (Jul 30, 2018)

The requisite crowd of people gathered around the fight is more a half-circle chanting, "Go Eifie!"

"Okay, fine, I surrender," says *RedneckPhoenix*. "Go Eifie!"



> - Challenge: (active, once in the game during the day, single target) Once you activate this ability, votes may only be cast for you or your target for the rest of the day, and the day's duration and vote count will be reset. You may only use this ability once, but using it doesn't count as losing it for the purposes of elimination.
> 
> *It is now Night 3. 48 hours for night actions.*


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## Keldeo (Aug 1, 2018)

The next day's newspaper headlines read:

_EIFIE GOES
Local woman wins lengthy overseas trip_

The few townspeople still willing to discuss the mysterious flyers regard each other suspiciously. It looks like someone else won't be around.



> *Eifie, the Town-aligned Socialite, has been eliminated.* Eifie had the following abilities:
> 
> - Network: (active, nightly, single target) You may communicate freely with your target only during the day phase immediately after you use this ability. You can't communicate with anyone who's eliminated, and you can't target the same person on consecutive nights with this ability.
> 
> ...


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## sanderidge (Aug 1, 2018)

master eif pls come back dont go on vacation now


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## Eifie (Aug 1, 2018)




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## sanderidge (Aug 4, 2018)

are we gonna... should we do anything


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## Keldeo (Aug 4, 2018)

72 hour extension. If there's no votes by then, no one will be lynched.


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## Butterfree (Aug 5, 2018)

Hmm. Well, I'm inclined to lynch *RedneckPhoenix* again, as he's been suspect, and then tomorrow, nobody should actually be dead and we'll have a bit more information.

I know abilities aren't supposed to be alignment-indicative in this game, but I can't help noting that both sanderidge and Stryke have abilities that are kind of more beneficial to mafia than town - Stryke more so, since he discovers _abilities_, which are explicitly not supposed to be alignment-indicative - that's extremely useful for the mafia, who'll find out what power roles to target, but not that useful for town. Mafia pretty much have no incentive to lie about their abilities in this game, so we can pretty much expect to get accurate information simply by asking for claims.


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## Stryke (Aug 6, 2018)

Butterfree said:


> Hmm. Well, I'm inclined to lynch *RedneckPhoenix* again, as he's been suspect, and then tomorrow, nobody should actually be dead and we'll have a bit more information.
> 
> I know abilities aren't supposed to be alignment-indicative in this game, but I can't help noting that both sanderidge and Stryke have abilities that are kind of more beneficial to mafia than town - Stryke more so, since he discovers _abilities_, which are explicitly not supposed to be alignment-indicative - that's extremely useful for the mafia, who'll find out what power roles to target, but not that useful for town. Mafia pretty much have no incentive to lie about their abilities in this game, so we can pretty much expect to get accurate information simply by asking for claims.


Y'know, I haven't really thought about it that much, but when you put it that way, I guess it does sound a bit suspect. But in my defense, I've been trying to help out the town as best I can with my ability. For instance, my roleclaim post didn't just serve as an attempt to get me off the list of potential lynchees; it gave you guys ideas of what other abilities could be floating out there so you could have more information to go off of, and later, made sure that you guys couldn't lie about your abilities (and yes I know Butterfree said mafia don't have incentive to lie about their abilities, but it never hurts to have confirmation of that). 

I realize that its kind of pompous of me to assume those two things, and maybe I'm completely wrong on both points, but the main overarching point of all that was I'm just trying to do the best I can for the town with what I got.


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## Zero Moment (Aug 6, 2018)

Also looking to lynch *RedneckPhoenix*. I watched over him last night just in case he wasn't the mafia and they had been looking to finish him, but nobody showed up.


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## Stryke (Aug 6, 2018)

Zero Moment said:


> Also looking to lynch *RedneckPhoenix*. I watched over him last night just in case he wasn't the mafia and they had been looking to finish him, but nobody showed up.


Oh yeah, I forgot to mention: I'mma lynch *RedneckPhoenix* as well.


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## Butterfree (Aug 7, 2018)

Stryke, what was the result of your night action?

Did anyone get told RNP targeted them (and RNP, whom did you target)?


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## sanderidge (Aug 7, 2018)

checking in! I'll also vote for *RedneckPhoenix*. 

also the house ac is down so it's really hot to sit where my laptop can charge, so I'll be mostly posting from my phone. these darn uppercase "I"s.


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## RedneckPhoenix (Aug 7, 2018)

hi


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## Butterfree (Aug 7, 2018)

Who was your target?


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## Butterfree (Aug 7, 2018)

Guys, work with me here. Can you please answer my questions? Otherwise I'll be forced to start to regard evasiveness as suspect.


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## Stryke (Aug 7, 2018)

Butterfree said:


> Stryke, what was the result of your night action?


Tried inspecting Phoenix to see if there were any significant details he left out about his second ability, but it must not have gone through, because I never got the results.


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## RedneckPhoenix (Aug 8, 2018)

oh yeah i targetted sande


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## Butterfree (Aug 9, 2018)

Hrrrmmm.

Well, sande says you did and they just didn't register it until now, but I find this a little convenient. My vote's staying on RNP, and if he turns out to be mafia (and lynching him doesn't end the game), I'm going to have to start side-eyeing sande a little more.

Meanwhile, to something rather more interesting: Zero Moment claims to have watched over RedneckPhoenix last night and that he wasn't targeted - but I targeted him last night. sande targeted Stryke (which they told me yesterday privately before Stryke claimed to have been blocked in the thread), so clearly I wasn't blocked. How do you explain this discrepancy, ZM?


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## Zero Moment (Aug 9, 2018)

Hm, that's interesting. My report specifically stated that nobody visited him last night. So the only thing I can think of is either your action failed and you weren't informed, or your action was redirected to someone else. _Or_ your ability doesn't count as 'visiting' for some reason. What exactly were you attempting?


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## Butterfree (Aug 9, 2018)

Healing. It was a last-ditch effort to see if I could actually potentially clear RedneckPhoenix if there were no kill. Probably not the best choice in retrospect, but I got hung up on that idea after the confusion yesterday.

In theory the issue could be that it doesn't actually count as visiting unless the person actually needs healing, but that's an unnecessarily complex way for the role to work. I wish the mechanics here weren't so up in the air; it's hard to reason about night actions when we have no idea how they're actually resolved.


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## Keldeo (Aug 10, 2018)

(apologies for the late update, I've been a little under the weather lately)



> *RedneckPhoenix, the Town-aligned Duelist, has been eliminated.*


As RedneckPhoenix walks away, sanderidge and Stryke exchange knowing looks.

"So you two were behind those posters!" Butterfree says. 

"Here's how it's gonna go down," Stryke says. "You two can't touch us. In the next couple of days, we'll 'eliminate you.' And then we'll own this town."

sanderidge: "By 'eliminate', he means, 'send you on overseas trips.' "

Zero Moment: "Come on. Like, seven people live in this town. What's the point of all this? Was this all some sort of ploy to send people on overseas trips?"

sanderidge and Stryke had already walked away.

--

With 4 players left, the number of non-eliminated mafia is greater than or equal to the number of non-eliminated town. *The Mafia team of sanderidge and Stryke wins!*



Spoiler: Roles and setup notes



[hide=Eifie, Town Socialite (neighborizer, one-shot vig)]- *Network:* (active, nightly, single target) You may communicate freely with your target only during the day phase immediately after you use this ability. You can't communicate with anyone who's eliminated, and you can't target the same person on consecutive nights with this ability.

- *Pull Strings:* (active, once in the game, single target) If you use this ability during a night phase, your target will be killed at the end of the night. If you use this ability during a day phase, your target will be killed as soon as the host processes your action, and the day's duration and vote count will be reset. You may only use this ability once, but using it doesn't count as losing it for the purposes of elimination.





Spoiler: Zero Moment, Town Detective (watcher, tracker)



- *Watch:* (active, nightly, single target) Learn the names of any player(s), besides yourself, who visit your target. You can't target yourself with this ability.

- *Track:* (active, nightly, single target) Learn the names of any player(s) who your target visits. You can't use this ability in the same night as Watch.





Spoiler: RedneckPhoenix, Town Duelist (one-shot gladiator, loud visitor)



- *Challenge:* (active, once in the game during the day, single target) Once you activate this ability, votes may only be cast for you or your target for the rest of the day, and the day's duration and vote count will be reset. You may only use this ability once, but using it doesn't count as losing it for the purposes of elimination.

- *Impress:* (active, nightly, single target) Your chosen target will be alerted that you visited them in the night.





Spoiler: Butterfree, Town Ally (neighbor with sanderidge, indecisive doctor)



- *Phone a Friend:* (passive) You can communicate freely with {sanderidge} as long as you have access to this ability and that player has access to the ability {Phone an Ally}.

- *Heal:* (active, nightly, single target) Your chosen target cannot be killed overnight. You can't target yourself with this ability, and you can't target the same person on consecutive nights with this ability.





Spoiler: Flora, Town Diviner (indecisive bodyguard, "role oracle")



- *Intercept:* (active, nightly, single target) If your target is killed overnight or in the day phase immediately after you use this ability, they will survive and you will lose this ability. You can't target the same person on consecutive nights with this ability. 

- *Prophesy:* (active, nightly, single target) When you lose this ability, one of your most recent target's abilities will be revealed publicly along with their name. If your target hasn't lost any abilities, it will be their first ability. If they have lost their first ability, it will be their second ability. You do not need to designate a new target every night, but if your target has been eliminated since you designated them, nothing will be revealed.


"visit" was meant to be synonymous with "successfully target" for Zero Moment's abilities. Flora's ability was supposed to function like this, with targets carrying over between nights. The original role can't be roleblocked but I didn't include that in this version, so being roleblocked just prevented the change in target.



Spoiler: sanderidge, Mafia Friend (neighbor with Butterfree, indecisive roleblocker)



- *Phone an Ally:* (passive) You can communicate freely with {Butterfree, who does not know your alignment,} as long as you have access to this ability and that player has access to the ability {Phone a Friend}.

- *Dissuade:* (active, nightly, single target) Your chosen target's active action(s) overnight will not be carried out. You can't target the same person on consecutive nights with this ability.





Spoiler: Stryke, Mafia Lurker (indecisive role cop, one-shot ninja)



- *Inspect:* (active, nightly, single target) If your target hasn't lost any abilities, learn their first ability. If they have lost their first ability, learn their second ability. You can't target the same person on consecutive nights with this ability. 

- *Sneak:* (active, once in the game, no target) The night that you use this ability, investigative roles will find that you didn't visit anyone. You may only use this ability once, but using it doesn't count as losing it for the purposes of elimination.





Spoiler: Shared mafia abilities



- *Mafia Kill:* (active, compulsory nightly, single target) Kill your chosen target. You can use this ability in the same night as any of your other active abilities. This kill will be carried out by the member of the Mafia who sends the kill order, and the last kill order received will be processed. If no kill orders are sent, a random living member of the Mafia will kill a random living member of the Town. You can't target yourself or your Mafia partner with this ability.

- *Mafia Contact:* (passive) Your Mafia partner is *sanderidge/Stryke*. You can communicate freely with them.[/hide]
Both mafia were meant to be able to "infiltrate" the town to an extent, with abilities that could let them find or circumvent town's strongest roles.





Spoiler: Night actions



*Night 0*
sanderidge roleblocks Zero Moment.
Eifie networks with sanderidge.
Stryke role-cops Butterfree.
Flora targets Stryke with Prophesy.
Butterfree heals sanderidge.
sanderidge kills Eifie.
Flora bodyguards Butterfree.
RedneckPhoenix visits Eifie.
Zero Moment watches Butterfree, but is roleblocked.

→ Stryke learns Butterfree's ability Phone A Friend. 
Flora's Prophesy target is now Stryke. 
Eifie and sanderidge can communicate for the next day phase.
Eifie is alerted of RedneckPhoenix's visit.
Zero Moment learns that he couldn't get any results.

Eifie is killed, losing the ability Network. 

*Day 1*
No one is lynched.

*Night 1*
sanderidge roleblocks RedneckPhoenix.
Stryke role-cops RedneckPhoenix.
Flora targets Eifie with Prophesy.
Butterfree heals RedneckPhoenix.
sanderidge kills RedneckPhoenix, but RedneckPhoenix is healed.
Eifie kills Flora.
Flora bodyguards Eifie.
RedneckPhoenix visits Stryke, but is roleblocked.
Zero Moment watches Eifie.

→ Stryke learns RedneckPhoenix's ability Challenge. 
Flora's Prophesy target is now Eifie. 
Eifie used up the shot of Pull Strings.
Zero Moment learns that Flora targeted Eifie.

Flora is killed, losing the ability Intercept.

*Day 2*
No one is lynched.

*Night 2*
sanderidge roleblocks Flora.
Stryke role-cops Zero Moment.
Flora targets Butterfree with Prophesy, but is roleblocked. Flora's Prophesy target doesn't change from Eifie.
Butterfree heals Eifie.
Stryke kills Flora.
RedneckPhoenix visits Flora.
Zero Moment watches sanderidge.

→ Stryke learns Zero Moment's ability Watch. 
Flora is alerted of RedneckPhoenix's visit.
Zero Moment learns that no one targeted sanderidge.

Flora is killed, losing the ability Prophesy. Flora is now eliminated.
Eifie's ability Pull Strings is revealed.

*Day 3*
RedneckPhoenix challenges Eifie. Only RedneckPhoenix and Eifie can be lynched today.
RedneckPhoenix is lynched, losing the ability Challenge. 

*Night 3*
Stryke uses Sneak. Stryke can't be seen by Zero Moment.
sanderidge roleblocks Butterfree.
Butterfree heals RedneckPhoenix, but is roleblocked. 
Stryke kills Eifie.
RedneckPhoenix visits sanderidge.
Zero Moment watches RedneckPhoenix.

→ sanderidge is alerted of RedneckPhoenix's visit.
Zero Moment learns that no one targeted RedneckPhoenix, since Butterfree was roleblocked.
Stryke used up the shot of Sneak.

Eifie is killed, losing the ability Pull Strings. Eifie is now eliminated.

*Day 4*
RedneckPhoenix is lynched, losing the ability Impress. RedneckPhoenix is now eliminated. The Mafia win.


When designing this setup I actually thought that mafia would be disadvantaged by the core mechanic, because town has more coordination than if each ability were given to a separate player. Single-target actions can incriminate players instead of abilities, so town could potentially catch 2 of the 4 effective mafia in one night (having lots of "indecisive" actions was meant to mitigate this). 

In practice, though, I think the mechanic (and the execution) turned out more scum-sided - it's possible for town to lose even when they've caught both the mafia, just because they can't lynch quickly enough - and in this setup in particular, the mafia had too many ways to counteract town's actions, and I wasn't clear about how some roles functioned, which led to confusion. If there's interest in another game with this mechanic down the line, I'll be keeping this in mind.

In any case, thanks for playing, everyone! I hope you found the game fun!


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## Eifie (Aug 10, 2018)

SANDERIDGE WT ACTUAL F


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## sanderidge (Aug 10, 2018)

yall that was WILD


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## Eifie (Aug 10, 2018)

Butterfree said:


> I know abilities aren't supposed to be alignment-indicative in this game, but I can't help noting that both sanderidge and Stryke have abilities that are kind of more beneficial to mafia than town - Stryke more so, since he discovers _abilities_, which are explicitly not supposed to be alignment-indicative - that's extremely useful for the mafia, who'll find out what power roles to target, but not that useful for town. Mafia pretty much have no incentive to lie about their abilities in this game, so we can pretty much expect to get accurate information simply by asking for claims.


lol @ this, good post

Also, I spent most of my alive time and all of my dead time telling Keldeo about how so very mafia you were, heheh...


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## sanderidge (Aug 10, 2018)

nyahaha! also, due to my sheer amount of social networking, stryke's ability, and flora's well timed demise, we knew what Everyone could do for pretty much the entire game. the only surprise was butterfree being a doc, but even then! hehehe.


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## Eifie (Aug 10, 2018)

Eifie said:


> lol @ this, good post
> 
> Also, I spent most of my alive time and all of my dead time telling Keldeo about how so very mafia you were, heheh...


Eifie: so it's bfree and ZM, eh :O

in which I get everything completely wrong


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## Eifie (Aug 10, 2018)

good excerpts:













Butterfree is mafia ChillyRey is the god damn tracker goodbye


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## Flora (Aug 10, 2018)

WHAT that’s just mean. That is so MEAN

But wow was this a trip. Good god.


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## RedneckPhoenix (Aug 10, 2018)

stryke is fucking spying on me he had all the same targets

get out of my house stryke


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## Stryke (Aug 10, 2018)

RedneckPhoenix said:


> stryke is fucking spying on me he had all the same targets
> 
> get out of my house stryke


But your room is so nice


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## RedneckPhoenix (Aug 10, 2018)

I'm hiring an exterminator


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## Stryke (Aug 10, 2018)

RedneckPhoenix said:


> I'm hiring an exterminator


S***.


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## Zero Moment (Aug 11, 2018)

Damnit RP why did you have to be so damn suspicious all game


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## RedneckPhoenix (Aug 11, 2018)

I gave you all my targets each night what else was I supposed to do


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## Butterfree (Aug 11, 2018)

God damn it. I was thinking the whole game "Oh, making the healer neighbors with a mafia member would totally be a neat thing to do in a mafia game, _it might be sanderidge_". I spent a while thinking it might be sanderidge and Eifie, telling sanderidge stuff in the hope of being able to gauge if Eifie said something that sounded like she knew what I'd been saying to sanderidge, and then I very deliberately didn't tell sanderidge that I was a doctor (only to go on to reveal it in the thread after misreading some posts, welp). But I admit I wasn't fully thinking through at the end that if there were two mafia (and RedneckPhoenix wasn't one of them) we'd be losing next turn because there were too few of us.

ZM why did you spend the whole game watching instead of tracking when you also had tracking, tracking is way more useful, argh

I definitely think this was a very scumsided setup with two mafia. The mafia don't have to bullshit anything because they've got other roles that they can use alongside the kill; the only way to catch them is if they're acting shady in the thread or if ZM caught one of their night visits, and _even if he did catch a night visit_, that wouldn't necessarily prove the night visit was a kill, because they've also got other verifiable actions where they target a player with something innocuous. Meanwhile, there's also very little reason for the mafia to say anything remotely risky in the thread - being lynched once does zero harm to their cause, so they don't even need to get themselves worked up the first time they're suspected, and they pretty much don't have to make up anything that might be contradicted because they've genuinely got potentially innocuous night actions that they also used (they just have to lie about their motivations for their targets). And then on top of that comes the bit where the town has to lynch correctly four times, while the mafia only need six town deaths to win: effectively, just two mislynches (which is how many it takes to even know it was a mislynch, so effectively just a single wrongly accused townie) means town inevitably loses! That's _really_ lopsided. I think it'd be neat to do this concept again at some point (it makes for a meatier seven-person game than most), but it'd have to be seriously rebalanced.


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## Zero Moment (Aug 12, 2018)

> ZM why did you spend the whole game watching instead of tracking when you also had tracking, tracking is way more useful, argh


Really? I thought tracking wasn't very useful. Tracking only gives a single result, whereas watching can see what a bunch of people did. Also if you track you get a single person's action without context, but if you watch someone who dies and there's only one visitor you _know_ that's the killer.

I just got unlucky with my actions T_T


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