# Gender



## Clover (Jun 30, 2010)

Well, we have the sexuality poll. This is a slightly different take: are you cisgendered, transgendered, neither, both? I'm guessing there will be more discrete than diffuse results here than there are on the sexuality thread. Hopefully we can spark some conversation...!

Personally, I'm very cisgendered female. Skirts and dressies are pretty. :3

(for those who didn't pass basic bio)


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## Blastoise Fortooate (Jun 30, 2010)

This is the most politically correct gender poll _ever_. :-3

Yeah, I'm a maley male of maleness.


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## Zuu (Jun 30, 2010)

I possess a Y chromosome; I would be fine with possessing two X chromosomes or the way I am. I don't specifically identify with the gender binary, though I use male pronouns to refer to myself.


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## departuresong (Jun 30, 2010)

I possess a Y chromosome and don't care about genders. At all.


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## Autumn (Jun 30, 2010)

I possess two X chromosomes and identify as female. I am boring :V


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## Barubu (Jun 30, 2010)

@ Leafpool: I, too, am boring as I have an X and a Y Chromosome and identify as male. :l


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## Zeph (Jun 30, 2010)

I AM A MANLY MAN who likes other men BUT I'M STILL MANLY RAAAH.


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## Flora (Jun 30, 2010)

I identify as female (with two X chromosomes btw).


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## goldenquagsire (Jun 30, 2010)

I have a Y chromosome but it's kinda complicated. Like, I consider myself male in the sense that I'm happy to have guy parts but I have issues with the societal concept of gender. I put my vote in the 'other' bracket because it was the easy option. :P


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## hopeandjoy (Jun 30, 2010)

Two Xs and identify as female.

And though I'm jealous of males sometimes, I'm happy being female.


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## surskitty (Jun 30, 2010)

I identify as _awesome_.


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## octobr (Jun 30, 2010)

Two X's, male identity, and goddamn confident enough to like Disney Princesses.


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## Dinru (Jun 30, 2010)

Two X chromosomes and don't give a damn about gender in general. As far as the general public is concerned, I'm female enough to be a "she".


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## Jolty (Jun 30, 2010)

two X, identify as male

this poll is frickin' sweet by the way


anyone whose identity corresponds with their sex and thinks they're boring: no you're not, I would MUCH rather be like that. Gimme a Y chromosome omg


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## Noctowl (Jun 30, 2010)

Two Xs and a girl. Yay.


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## Butterfree (Jun 30, 2010)

I chose the first option, but I don't really particularly "identify" as female so much as just... accept that I'm biologically a woman. Gender, as its own thing separate from biological sex, doesn't really exist in my head. There are stereotypes about "masculine" and "feminine" things, but I've always been a firm believer in the idea that women can like "masculine" things and men can like "feminine" things if they damn well please, without having to first identify as the "appropriate" gender. So what's left of the concept of gender is... pretty meaningless to me, really. I consider myself female _because_ I have two X chromosomes, nothing more and nothing less, and what that means to me is simply that I have a vagina and am subject to the same stereotypes, prejudices, assumptions, expectations, privileges, etc. as other biological females.

Which is of course not to dismiss people who actually identify as transgendered; they obviously know better what they're feeling than I do. My point is just that I personally can't really wrap my head around the concept of specifically identifying as some gender independent of your biological sex, so I'm not sure if my vote is entirely accurate.


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## Tailsy (Jun 30, 2010)

I'm happy with being cisgendered.

Man, I'm _hip_.


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## surskitty (Jun 30, 2010)

Jessie said:


> I'm happy with being cisgendered.
> 
> Man, I'm _hip_.


Are you hip or do you have hips?  It's an important question.


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## Elliekat (Jun 30, 2010)

Two X, female, you know the drill :P

Actually I have no idea what half the things in the "other" selection mean so I wouldn't really know, but I do identify as a girl.


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## hopeandjoy (Jun 30, 2010)

James said:


> I identify as _awesome_.


...Prussia?

Sorry... I had to.


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## Tailsy (Jun 30, 2010)

James said:


> Are you hip or do you have hips?  It's an important question.


Whatever you want me to have 8)


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## Chopsuey (Jun 30, 2010)

Schizophrenic moron. Oh, wait, this isn't about your mental state...



Blastoise said:


> Yeah, I'm a maley male of maleness.


EDIT: Okay, some people think I look like a girl solely because I have my hair as long as I can. D: Nothing else.


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## Bluberry Bat (Jun 30, 2010)

Haha, yes, this poll is rather amazing.

Well most people who have been here long enough probably already know I'm an XY who identifies female. :V They'll also know I'd like to impale said Y on a rusty spigot and bath in its blood, but that's besides the point. (Srsly tradsies to any one of you double-X's. I'll go ahead and echo the comment: anyone who feels 'boring' feel -lucky- for being so. :V )

I'm a tad awkward though, in a way. I feel _strongly_ female, can't stand being referred to as male, want the body (And every function that comes with it; which turns into the primary crazy-calls from people on all ends), but it's all moreso a personal comfort of my physical self thing than anything. I've no real bearing on gender roles and don't care for them one bit. I've no plans of ever going out of my way to fulfil any that I don't feel like filling, and I'd say I've got an adequate mix of both 'male' and 'female' traits to go around.

(By the way Verne, have I told you lately how awesome you are?)


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## Autumn (Jun 30, 2010)

Butterfree said:


> I chose the first option, but I don't really particularly "identify" as female so much as just... accept that I'm biologically a woman. Gender, as its own thing separate from biological sex, doesn't really exist in my head. There are stereotypes about "masculine" and "feminine" things, but I've always been a firm believer in the idea that women can like "masculine" things and men can like "feminine" things if they damn well please, without having to first identify as the "appropriate" gender. So what's left of the concept of gender is... pretty meaningless to me, really. I consider myself female _because_ I have two X chromosomes, nothing more and nothing less, and what that means to me is simply that I have a vagina and am subject to the same stereotypes, prejudices, assumptions, expectations, privileges, etc. as other biological females.


this is actually kind of how I feel but I didn't know how to go about wording it. :V


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## Dinru (Jun 30, 2010)

L'il Dwagie said:


> Haha, yes, this poll is rather amazing.
> 
> Well most people who have been here long enough probably already know I'm an XY who identifies female. :V They'll also know I'd like to impale said Y on a rusty spigot and bath in its blood, but that's besides the point. (Srsly tradsies to any one of you double-X's. I'll go ahead and echo the comment: anyone who feels 'boring' feel -lucky- for being so. :V )
> 
> ...


I would trade with you if I could ;~;


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## Shiny Grimer (Jun 30, 2010)

Essentially what Butterfree said. I'm XX and I'm female, but honestly my being female means, to me, that I have two xx chromosomes and yeah... it doesn't say anything about me. There are "feminine" things as dictated by society and "masculine" things; I happen to like things from both categories (as I am certain that there are people with XY chromosomes who identify as female and like "masculine" things and people with XX chromosomes who identify as male and like "feminine" things, etc.) I probably wouldn't be more comfortable having a Y chromosome so yeah.

I'd be interested in knowing more about this. If you feel that you _should_ be the other gender, then I get that perfectly. If you feel that you should be the other gender because you like dresses/action figures/other stereotypical thing, that's what I would like to understand. I should probably lurk more blogs. :x


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## Arylett Charnoa (Jun 30, 2010)

Biologically female, quite strongly mentally female. Everyone seems to get the impression that because I don't do stereotypical girlythings (like shave), that I'm gender confused. But I'm not. I like being a woman quite a lot and I feel like on the inside I am very feminine, but not in the same stereotypical way. Not the whole OH MY GOD PINK LIPSTICK way. Just... like a woman, I guess. I don't know if that makes sense. Being feminine to me means something different than it seems to mean to most people. I love things like dresses though and skirts. Being a man would feel... just so wrong to me.


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## Clover (Jul 1, 2010)

Arylett Dawnsborough said:


> Being a man would feel... just so wrong to me.


Permanently, yeah, but... if there was some TG gun or misfile or magical DVD or something (I read too many of this sort of comic...), I'd try it, if it was for like a number of hours or a day, week at most. For the novelty of it and all. :x


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## ultraviolet (Jul 1, 2010)

I'm a lady and I've never really felt otherwise, but I imagine having a penis would be twice as cool as having a vagina. :/


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## departuresong (Jul 1, 2010)

ultraviolet said:


> I'm a lady and I've never really felt otherwise, but I imagine having a penis would be twice as cool as having a vagina. :/


*multiple orgasms*

Enough said.


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## Tailsy (Jul 1, 2010)

departuresong said:


> *multiple orgasms*
> 
> Enough said.


Not that cool. :B


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## Involuntary Twitch (Jul 1, 2010)

ultraviolet said:


> I'm a lady and I've never really felt otherwise, but I imagine having a penis would be twice as cool as having a vagina. :/


I was gonna post but then you said this, so I can't do much besides agree. Having a penis would be cool. But not permanently. Like... a detatchable penis or something. Impress your friends!

I like having boobs and wearing skirts though! Being a girl is fun c:



departuresong said:


> *multiple orgasms*
> 
> Enough said.


...And then there's, yeah, this.


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## Arylett Charnoa (Jul 1, 2010)

departuresong said:


> *multiple orgasms*
> 
> Enough said.


It's harder for most of us to even get orgasms.


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## Blastoise Fortooate (Jul 1, 2010)

departuresong said:


> *multiple orgasms*
> 
> Enough said.


Yeah but girls pay for it with menstruation and childbirth and menopause and having to wear those tiny little pointy shoes. ''<


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## octobr (Jul 1, 2010)

Pro to penis:


STICKING IT PLACES


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## see ya (Jul 1, 2010)

I possess an XX, but I don't really feel one way or the other very strongly, and when I do it fluctuates. Some days I would kill to be a guy, and others I happily prance out of my house in makeup and heels. I don't really get what it feels like to be "male" or "female", because in my mind I'm just myself, and the idea of having a gender "identity" is a concept I've wrestled with for a while. Also sometimes me and my body have existential conflicts, what with me being female and possessing the ability to make babies and all, and how sometimes I kind of feel like that's a threat to my individuality, but that's a whole 'nother kettle of fish.



departuresong said:


> *multiple orgasms*
> 
> Enough said.


Point taken. Still, it's just one good thing amidst a bunch of not-so-cool things.


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## ultraviolet (Jul 1, 2010)

> *multiple orgasms*


sure but it's not even kind of obvious how to even masturbate I mean really


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## Minish (Jul 1, 2010)

Multiple orgasms are ridiculously overrated. Most of us stop giving a shit after the first one. :P

I'm XX, identify as female, etc. I feel very lucky to be satisfied with my sex and gender roughly aligning, as I can imagine (though obviously not all that clearly) how confusing and frustrating it must be to not be cisgendered. :( I'd swap if I could! I don't really care much about sex or gender.

I guess I'm kind of genderqueer. I used to be insulted with male pronouns because I wasn't girly, and it really really hurt me, but now I'm like... yeah, whatever. Genderfluid maybe? Thankfully it's a lot easier and much more acceptable to be a genderfluid female.


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## Jolty (Jul 1, 2010)

departuresong said:


> *multiple orgasms*
> 
> Enough said.


eh it's not what it's cracked up to be


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## Tailsy (Jul 1, 2010)

Blastoise said:


> Yeah but girls pay for it with menstruation and childbirth and menopause and having to wear those tiny little pointy shoes. ''<


You don't _have_ to wear tiny pointy shoes! Or go through childbirth, either. And I suppose if you were really extreme you could become emaciated and prevent menstruating. But then you wouldn't have to worry about it very soon anyway if you went and did _that_...


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## Worst Username Ever (Jul 1, 2010)

Two X and identify as female. I don't care much for what is "feminine" or "masculine", though-I'm not particularily any of them. Though, it would actually be fun being a boy for just a day/week just to see what it's like-but I like and prefer being a girl.


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## Esque (Jul 1, 2010)

Two X.  Identify as female.

By identify as female, I mean I deal with a lot of blood on a monthly basis and it's painful.  And I like my pretty hair.  And that's it.


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## Aisling (Jul 1, 2010)

Arylett Dawnsborough said:


> It's harder for most of us to even get orgasms.


Sounds like a personal problem to me :I
unless you mean an orgasm _during_ sex before the guy has one as I have absolutely no experience in that area


XX, identify as female. I was a total tomboy as a kid, being the only chick in school who was into Pokemon and video games in general (and DINOSAURS) and I've apparently developed strange tastes for things I'll squeal over and call "cute" (reptilian things, like DINOSAURS). But recently I've found myself embracing things people would probably find more feminine, like pretty clothes and wishing I was small enough to wear them, having kids (like, literally having kids, it's a weird fetish I'll probably only get to live out once :<)... and other than having periods I generally like the idea that I'm a woman. If that makes sense.


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## surskitty (Jul 1, 2010)

Blastoise said:


> having to wear those tiny little pointy shoes. ''<


I've gotten out of that fairly well so far.


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## #1 bro (Jul 3, 2010)

I'm a man, more or less as straight and "normal" when it comes to gender as you can get. That said, I don't necessarily like "manly" things (I don't watch sports at all, for instance). 

It does occur to me that men are _dramatically_ better off than women in the overall big picture of things. A woman has to deal with periods, childbirth, the media's attack on her body image (admittedly this can be a problem for men too), sexism, the necessity to groom for half an hour in the morning if she want to be able to even go outside, and an entire childhood spent in psychological warfare with her fellow women. The only major benefit I can see to being a woman is that women appear to be able to make friends of the same sex more easily than men can, and they often grow closer with other women than men can with other men.


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## Autumn (Jul 3, 2010)

Zeta Reticuli said:


> the necessity to groom for half an hour in the morning if she want to be able to even go outside


not all women do that. I for one don't put on makeup or wear jewelry and I don't fuss about what clothes to wear either.


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## Blastoise Fortooate (Jul 3, 2010)

maybe related: a lesbian reporter lives as a man for a year and a half to find out about things on the other side of the gender line


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## ultraviolet (Jul 3, 2010)

> the necessity to groom for half an hour in the morning if she want to be  able to even go outside


what

it takes me ten-fifteen minutes at the most normally, half an hour if I'm going to a party or some other occasion


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## Equinoxe (Jul 3, 2010)

Zeta Reticuli said:


> the necessity to groom for half an hour in the morning if she want to be able to even go outside


No offense, but it takes, like, not even a minute to get my hair into position.
Not all women have to perform "beauty-duties", for example I never put on make-up or anything of the sort. I prefer to look like myself :B


Anyway, concerning the poll: XX and female. I'm happy to be a woman and I like to be feminine even though my brain is (at some parts) more masculine than feminine. And I'm stereotypically only interested in manly men~

For some strange reason I do find getting people confused of my gender/sex on the internet fun, which is why I often use male characters as my avatars on forums and such (no idea _why_ it's fun).


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## Jolty (Jul 3, 2010)

Zeta Reticuli said:


> childbirth
> the necessity to groom for half an hour in the morning if she want to be able to even go outside


>implying those things aren't optional



Blastoise said:


> maybe related: a lesbian reporter lives as a man for a year and a half to find out about things on the other side of the gender line


oh man I remember seeing this article years ago it was awesome


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## thunder (Jul 3, 2010)

I am male and accidently messed up the poll by pressing the wrong button, is there a way to fix that?


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## Jason-Kun (Jul 3, 2010)

XY and indentify as male.


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## spaekle (Jul 3, 2010)

Zeta Reticuli said:


> the necessity to groom for half an hour in the morning if she want to be able to even go outside


I think this is more of a matter of what society in general _expects_ women to do. I have known people who will consider a girl a slob or just look down on her for not wearing makeup. :\


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## Cap'n Sofa (Jul 3, 2010)

XY, and I identify as male because I am physically male. It wouldn't be that bad if I somehow spontaneously became female or anything, aside from the initial "HOLY SH*T HOW THE F**K DID THAT EVEN HAPPEN* reaction. I don't really care and don't lean toward either stereotype.


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## Clover (Jul 3, 2010)

thunder said:


> I am male and accidently messed up the poll by pressing the wrong button, is there a way to fix that?


Uh maybe; clarify what you voted as and what you wanted to vote as?


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## Shiny Grimer (Jul 3, 2010)

that article said:
			
		

> ...I like it more now because I think it's more of a privilege."


Hmm, with all due respect, I disagree with her that being a woman is "a privilege".


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## Esque (Jul 3, 2010)

... said:


> Hmm, with all due respect, I disagree with her that being a woman is "a privilege".


I think I can agree with you on this.  It's kind of something half of the population is born with. -.-



			
				sofa said:
			
		

> XY, and I identify as male because I am physically male. It wouldn't be that bad if I somehow spontaneously became female or anything, aside from the initial "HOLY SH*T HOW THE F**K DID THAT EVEN HAPPEN* reaction. I don't really care and don't lean toward either stereotype.


Wow, epic reaction there. : D


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## @lex (Jul 4, 2010)

I'm biologically and mentally and physically male, although I can be quite feminine at times~

Actually, having the ability to flip at will (along with flipping making me look more different, too) would be AWESOME.


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## Dannichu (Jul 4, 2010)

Zeta Reticuli said:


> It does occur to me that men are _dramatically_ better off than women in the overall big picture of things. A woman has to deal with periods, childbirth, the media's attack on her body image (admittedly this can be a problem for men too), sexism, the necessity to groom for half an hour in the morning if she want to be able to even go outside, and an entire childhood spent in psychological warfare with her fellow women. The only major benefit I can see to being a woman is that women appear to be able to make friends of the same sex more easily than men can, and they often grow closer with other women than men can with other men.


It's true, and studies generally show that the social things (the expectation to spend time looking good, the psychological warfare, etc) are far more damaging than the biological things like periods. This isn't to say that men get an entirely sweet deal; the expectation of masculinity is very burdensome and is the root cause of the vast amount of homophobia. 

Basically, society's concepts of what is masculine and what is feminine is a) crap, and b) damaging to everyone.


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## Zeph (Jul 4, 2010)

Dannichu said:


> Basically, society's concepts of what is masculine and what is feminine is a) crap, and b) damaging to everyone.


I agree 100%. Although amusingly, on the flipside, people expect me to be extremely camp and such purely because of my sexuality and get surprised when they realise that I'm awful with fashion and whatnot. Well, it makes me laugh anyway.


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## Arylett Charnoa (Jul 4, 2010)

... said:


> Hmm, with all due respect, I disagree with her that being a woman is "a privilege".


I think she just feels like that because she's grateful to be a woman. Becoming a man made her have identity issues, and she was just grateful to go back to the way she was, so it felt like a "privilege" to her, if that makes sense. Made her appreciate what she took for granted and such.


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## ... (Jul 6, 2010)

Biological gender and gender perception are, obviously, not one and the same. Femininity and masculinity do not coincide with what genitals one was born with, nor do the mannerisms one possesses that correspond to either sex. I am male and I identify as a male, despite my sexuality. We should all be happy with what gender we were given at birth, for that is how we were originally and shouldn't try to change that, despite any misconceptions we may have about either sex. Appreciate what you've got. I know I do.


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## Flora (Jul 6, 2010)

Ryubane said:


> We should all be happy with what gender we were given at birth, for that is how we were originally and shouldn't try to change that, despite any misconceptions we may have about either sex. Appreciate what you've got.


okay so even though i'm a girl and am perfectly happy being one (no matter how tomboyish I may act) , I would like to complain about this idea.

some people are born guys, but are _also_ born with the feeling that they are girls or should be girls. likewise, some are born girls and are _born _feeling that they should be guys.  And that's not even considering those who were born _outside_ the gender binary.

speaking of those outside the gender binary, do you suggest that they should consider themselves neither male nor female? correct me if i'm wrong, but i'm pretty sure genderqueers are _expected_ to choose between male and female. (plus identifying as neither would probably be like walking around with a sign saying "please make fun of me")

also, dude, transgenders don't have an identity contrary to that which they were born because of any _misconceptions;_ it's a feeling they were born with.


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## Tailsy (Jul 6, 2010)

Ryubane said:


> Biological gender and gender perception are, obviously, not one and the same. Femininity and masculinity do not coincide with what genitals one was born with, nor do the mannerisms one possesses that correspond to either sex. I am male and I identify as a male, despite my sexuality. We should all be happy with what gender we were given at birth, for that is how we were originally and shouldn't try to change that, despite any misconceptions we may have about either sex. Appreciate what you've got. I know I do.








u mad


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## Zuu (Jul 6, 2010)

Ryubane said:


> Biological gender and gender perception are, obviously, not one and the same. Femininity and masculinity do not coincide with what genitals one was born with, nor do the mannerisms one possesses that correspond to either sex. I am male and I identify as a male, despite my sexuality. We should all be happy with what gender we were given at birth, for that is how we were originally and shouldn't try to change that, despite any misconceptions we may have about either sex. Appreciate what you've got. I know I do.


no u

and what I mean by that is that you have a lot of nerve to come in here and say that to some people who are actually having to deal with an innate sense of _wrongness_ with their body that you've likely never had to deal with! it sucks, and it affects their life strongly, and if they want something done about it, what the fuck does that have to do with you? is it going to hurt to see someone who's physically a woman passing as a man on the street?


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## Vladimir Putin's LJ (Jul 6, 2010)

Ryubane said:


> We should all be happy with what gender we were given at birth, for that is how we were originally and shouldn't try to change that, despite any misconceptions we may have about either sex. Appreciate what you've got. I know I do.


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## Ruby (Jul 6, 2010)

I agree with VPLJ.


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## spaekle (Jul 6, 2010)

Ryubane said:


> Biological gender and gender perception are, obviously, not one and the same. Femininity and masculinity do not coincide with what genitals one was born with, nor do the mannerisms one possesses that correspond to either sex. I am male and I identify as a male, despite my sexuality. We should all be happy with what gender we were given at birth, for that is how we were originally and shouldn't try to change that, despite any misconceptions we may have about either sex. Appreciate what you've got. I know I do.


lol, I was waiting for this post.


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## Jolty (Jul 6, 2010)

Ryubane said:


> We should all be happy with what gender we were given at birth, for that is how we were originally and shouldn't try to change that, despite any misconceptions we may have about either sex. Appreciate what you've got. I know I do.


you have two choices

1) feel miserable forever but your family and friends still love you

2) be happy with yourself but probably lose a great deal of people in your life

WHICH DO YOU PICK


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## Crazy Linoone (Jul 6, 2010)

Ryubane said:


> Biological gender and gender perception are, obviously, not one and the same. Femininity and masculinity do not coincide with what genitals one was born with, nor do the mannerisms one possesses that correspond to either sex. I am male and I identify as a male, despite my sexuality. We should all be happy with what gender we were given at birth, for that is how we were originally and shouldn't try to change that, despite any misconceptions we may have about either sex. Appreciate what you've got. I know I do.


what

I don't know how these people manage to stay here for so long without realizing that the mass majority of this forums is pro-LGBT.


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## ... (Jul 6, 2010)

Dear God what have I done?

I said to appreciate what you were given, and what you've got. I could have gone on longer about how gender also corresponds to spirituality, but abridged it for various reasons. I obviously didn't mean to offend anybody, but once again I seem to have forgotten that this forum is LGBT-dominant. My thoughts are just as strong as anyone else's, and I hope that any one of you know that and can accept my thoughts just as well as yours. I don't oppose trans-gender people of any kind at all, but I would definitely prefer such people to choose one over the other. As Flora and Ashes said, it _is_ expected for them to choose. So apparently it isn't just me who shares this thought.


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## Flora (Jul 6, 2010)

Ryubane said:


> how gender also corresponds to spirituality


...i fail to see the correlation.


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## Zora of Termina (Jul 6, 2010)

> We should all be happy with what gender we were given at birth, for that  is how we were originally and shouldn't try to change that, despite any  misconceptions we may have about either sex. Appreciate what you've  got. I know I do.



I'm not even in the group he's bitching about and I feel insulted.

ANYWAY to stay on topic, XX chromosomes and identify as female, nothing more to really say.


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## octobr (Jul 6, 2010)

Ryubane said:


> I don't oppose trans-gender people of any kind at all, but I would definitely prefer such people to choose one over the other.


I don't even know what you mean here ??


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## Minish (Jul 6, 2010)

Ryubane said:


> Dear God what have I done?
> 
> I said to appreciate what you were given, and what you've got. I could have gone on longer about how gender also corresponds to spirituality, but abridged it for various reasons. I obviously didn't mean to offend anybody, but once again I seem to have forgotten that this forum is LGBT-dominant. My thoughts are just as strong as anyone else's, and I hope that any one of you know that and can accept my thoughts just as well as yours. I don't oppose trans-gender people of any kind at all, but I would definitely prefer such people to choose one over the other. As Flora and Ashes said, it _is_ expected for them to choose. So apparently it isn't just me who shares this thought.


say WHAT now

What do you mean, appreciate? Nobody cares whether you meant to offend anybody, or that ~everyone is entitled to their own opinion~ because our opinions... aren't really all that oppressive to other people.

You don't oppose transgender people, but you reckon they should stick with a body that they feel is completely at odds with their mind and feels horrifyingly uncomfortable and just _wrong_? And you say _you don't oppose transgender people_?

Bringing 'appreciation' in makes no sense, nobody thinks "I'm a girl in a man's body, but hey, I guess I should just be thankful for having a body at all".

Grrrrrgh.

ETA: Also, any particular reason why we should be happy with the body we got at birth? We can't say, sorry nature, but my sex and gender don't align and I'm going to have to intervene? I don't think you understand what sort of a hassle transgendered people have to go through just to feel comfortable in their own bodies. :|


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## spaekle (Jul 6, 2010)

Ryubane said:


> Dear God what have I done?
> 
> I said to appreciate what you were given, and what you've got. I could have gone on longer about how gender also corresponds to spirituality, but abridged it for various reasons. I obviously didn't mean to offend anybody, but once again I seem to have forgotten that this forum is LGBT-dominant. My thoughts are just as strong as anyone else's, and I hope that any one of you know that and can accept my thoughts just as well as yours. I don't oppose trans-gender people of any kind at all, but I would definitely prefer such people to choose one over the other. As Flora and Ashes said, it _is_ expected for them to choose. So apparently it isn't just me who shares this thought.


Ookay, so this issue is mostly with people who "can't pick one or the other"?

We shouldn't _have_ to pick one or the other, because the gender binary is ridiculous and oppressive. Just because I'm expected to doesn't mean I'm going to do it, either. There are a _whole lot of things_ people in my life expect me to do that I'm not going to, and most of them happen to be related to my assigned gender role in one form or another. Am I selfish? Yeah, but so are they for wanting me to do things that would only make _them_ happy. This also applies to whatever higher spiritual being that probably doesn't exist may think. Doing things just because other people want you to isn't going to result in a very good life. 

Another fun fact: I posted this article in the LGBT club a long time ago but it goes well in this thread too. Science is awesome. :v


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## ... (Jul 6, 2010)

Spaekle Oddberry said:


> Just because I'm expected to doesn't mean I'm going to do it, either. There are a _whole lot of things_ people in my life expect me to do that I'm not going to, and most of them happen to be related to my assigned gender role in one form or another. Am I selfish? Yeah, but so are they for wanting me to do things that would only make _them_ happy.


This is what I've been trying to get at. It's expected, but not necessary. 

And Cirrus, when the hell did I say that?


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## Clover (Jul 7, 2010)

Ryubane said:


> And Cirrus, when the hell did I say that?





Cirrus said:


> say WHAT now
> 
> 
> 
> ...


It was unclear what, specifically, you were asking that you said. Citations added.




Ryubane said:


> This is what I've been trying to get at. It's expected, but not necessary.


You're not making any sense whatsoever, you realize.


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## ... (Jul 7, 2010)

Ryubane said:
			
		

> This is what I've been trying to get at. It's expected, but not necessary.


When I said this, I meant that it was expected by others for trans-gender individuals to choose between male or female. That being said, it isn't 100% necessary for them to do so. No one can force them to make that decision; they will make it only if they want to, and that's that.


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## Flora (Jul 7, 2010)

Ryubane said:


> No one can force them to make that decision; they will make it only if they want to, and that's that.


you're pretty much saying that they _have _to decide, and that they _have _to decide that they're the sex they were assigned.

key word being _assigned._


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## octobr (Jul 7, 2010)

Ryubane said:


> When I said this, I meant that it was expected by others for trans-gender individuals to choose between male or female. That being said, it isn't 100% necessary for them to do so. No one can force them to make that decision; they will make it only if they want to, and that's that.


oh MAN you mean we get to CHOOSE

WHY DID NO ONE TELL ME THIS


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## 1. Luftballon (Jul 7, 2010)

oh shit did we just bump into religious issues?


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## Clover (Jul 7, 2010)

sreservoir said:


> oh shit did we just bump into religious issues?


Well, the only thing mentioned on that route is Ryubane's "I could have gone on longer about how gender also corresponds to spirituality, but abridged it for various reasons." (implying that he mentioned anything about "how gender corresponds to spirituality", which... he didn't)

But. It's a tcodf srsbusiness thread. It'll end up that way sooner or later.


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## Jester (Jul 7, 2010)

This is serious buisness, Apparently.


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## 1. Luftballon (Jul 7, 2010)

this kind of religious issues,


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## ... (Jul 7, 2010)

Seriously, guys, if I knew this was going to rapidly devolve into this sort of discussion, I would have posted something in the Serious Business forum. Just let it go. I meant nothing by it.


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## Minish (Jul 7, 2010)

Ryubane said:


> Seriously, guys, if I knew this was going to rapidly devolve into this sort of discussion, I would have posted something in the Serious Business forum. Just let it go. I meant nothing by it.


Don't post very unpopular opinions here if you aren't willing to explain and back them up, then.

The only reason people have taken what might seem like OTT offence is because it's an important issue close to many forum members' hearts (and also because your opinion is outdated and doesn't make much sense).


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## ... (Jul 7, 2010)

It's not that I wasn't willing, it's that I just wasn't expecting that I'd have to on this level. 

And yes, I know this now. End of discussion. Bye.


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## Zuu (Jul 7, 2010)

Ryubane said:


> It's not that I wasn't willing, it's that I just wasn't expecting that I'd have to on this level.
> 
> And yes, I know this now. End of discussion. Bye.


dude don't say ~anything~ if you don't even have anything to back it up

see ya


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## H-land (Jul 10, 2010)

I've got one X and one Y and identify as male.
I've got to say, though, I'm rather surprised that we have more females than males on this forum. I guess I haven't been keeping up with all the new members that've been coming in. Though honestly, it might have even been this way when I joined the forum. It's hard to say.


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## surskitty (Jul 11, 2010)

It's always been that way.


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## Clover (Jul 13, 2010)

Changed the wording, as the previous answers discriminated against those users with chromosomal disorders.


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## Ruby (Jul 14, 2010)

Is the rest of the Pokemon community mostly female too?


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## Blastoise Fortooate (Jul 14, 2010)

MidnightSaboteur said:


> Changed the wording, as the previous answers discriminated against those users with chromosomal disorders.


Because I'm sure we have lots of those. (I have actually no idea if we do. Do we?) The political correctness in the polls is now even more hilarious.


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## Starly (Jul 14, 2010)

I have an X and Y chromosone and I identify as a male, though people have called me a girl (a truckdriver told my mom to tell her little girl (me) not to run through the streets) because I used to grow my hair long/refuse to get it cut.


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## surskitty (Jul 14, 2010)

Blastoise said:


> Because I'm sure we have lots of those. (I have actually no idea if we do. Do we?) The political correctness in the polls is now even more hilarious.


I can think of at least one user who falls in that category.  o.o


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## opaltiger (Jul 14, 2010)

Blastoise said:


> Because I'm sure we have lots of those. (I have actually no idea if we do. Do we?) The political correctness in the polls is now even more hilarious.


It's not political correctness, it's common courtesy.


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## Adriane (Jul 14, 2010)

Blastoise said:


> Because I'm sure we have lots of those. (I have actually no idea if we do. Do we?) The political correctness in the polls is now even more hilarious.


Hi. I have Klinefelter's Syndrome.


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## Blastoise Fortooate (Jul 14, 2010)

James said:


> I can think of at least one user who falls in that category.  o.o





> Hi. I have Klinefelter's Syndrome.


Ah. Question answered, then.





opaltiger said:


> It's not political correctness, it's common courtesy.


Can't it be both?


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## surskitty (Jul 14, 2010)

Political correctness has negative connotations.  :|


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## Adriane (Jul 14, 2010)

James said:


> Political correctness has negative connotations.  :|


I cannot stress this enough. The entire concept of "political correctness" is Tauros poop :|


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## Blastoise Fortooate (Jul 14, 2010)

Vixie said:


> I cannot stress this enough. The entire concept of "political correctness" is Tauros poop :|


I agree; that's not to say some of it's elements aren't present in the poll.


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## surskitty (Jul 14, 2010)

Iiiiiii don't think so.  The poll's polite, inclusive, and not cisnormative.


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## Blastoise Fortooate (Jul 14, 2010)

Oh Ruby. Always so, so correct in her summaries of the situations that I've dived into unthinkingly. :/

I think it would be wise for me to shut up here; I didn't mean 'politically correct' in a derogatory way, in any case.


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## Amfibbian (Jul 14, 2010)

Hallo. 
I lack a Y chromosome and identify as male. :v 

Although if you met me you would never guess I have two X chromosomes. Everyone sees me as a guy, and only know otherwise once someone who knows me ruins it by saying my name or telling the person that I'm a girl, which pisses me off to no end. Once I got security called on me for using the girls room at school, but the security guards know me so nothing happened.


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## Ruby (Jul 14, 2010)

Blastoise said:


> Oh Ruby. Always so, so correct in her summaries of the situations that I've dived into unthinkingly. :/


I'm sorry, I deleted the message after I realized other people had posted while I was typing!  

Edit:  For anyone interested, I simply said I couldn't help but feel the awkwardness of Blastoise's situation.


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## shadow_lugia (Jul 14, 2010)

I have female organs in my body and in my head.


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## octobr (Jul 14, 2010)

You should really get that checked out man.


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## Thorne (Jul 15, 2010)

I possess a Y chromosome and identify as male but I'm one of the most unmanly men to walk down the road of manhood.

Not that it bothers me or anything but still.

In other news there's a whole lotta more biological females on this forum than I thought.


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## Green (Jul 15, 2010)

i identify as male.


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## surskitty (Jul 15, 2010)

KronoGreen said:


> i am a _man_. who beats up women.
> 
> i like to pretend i'm a big yellow spiky lightning bird.


Would you mind doing us all a favour and not acting your age?


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## Green (Jul 15, 2010)

James said:


> Would you mind doing us all a favour and not acting your age?


sure. i'll edit the post.

sorry for being an ass.


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