# Pokémon Mafia: Arceus - Game Thread



## qenya (Sep 1, 2022)

*Night 0*





The rift is quiet, and Hisui sleeps... Pokémon roam the wilds, the clans rest, and the folk of Jubilife Village lie peacefully in their homes, not anticipating the nightmare soon to unfold.

*Role PMs are being sent out. Please select your characters. Day 1 will begin on 2022-09-02 (Friday) at 23:00 UTC, with a 24-hour delay if not everyone has chosen yet.*



Spoiler: Pings / Playerlist



@M&F
@JackPK
@lolfoxes (@Wisper & @Zori)
@Zero Moment
@RedneckPhoenix
@Herbe
@haneko
@Butterfree


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## qenya (Sep 2, 2022)

*Day 1*





A bright summer's morning dawns, a faint pleasant breeze blowing gently down Floaro Main Street. Against all odds, the world is much the same as the people of Hisui left it the day before. As the village awakens and townsfolk begin to go about their daily business, nobody appears unaccounted for.

A neatly handwritten notice has been pinned to the wall outside the Galaxy Team's living quarters. Its subject matter is alarming, but it seems so divorced from reality that nobody really knows what to make of it. Except whoever put it there, presumably.


Spoiler: Anonymous Role PM Fragment



While you are alive, at the beginning of each day phase, a random living player will be selected, and all other living players will be privately informed that they are conspiring against that player. If you are selected, instead only you will be informed that there is no conspiracy that day.

During the day, all living players may vote on whether or not they believe there is a conspiracy, in addition to the ordinary elimination poll. If there is a conspiracy and the target of the conspiracy correctly identifies this, they will be granted 1 extra elimination vote during the next day phase. If there is not a conspiracy and a majority of living players correctly identify this, then each player who guessed correctly will be granted 1 extra elimination vote during the next day phase. You do not have a conspiracy vote (although you may pretend that you do and it will be included in vote totals).

If nobody gains an extra vote as a result of this minigame, you may target a player during the following night. That player dies.

This role PM, excluding your alignment and identity, will be published to the thread at the beginning of each day you are alive to clarify these mechanics.



*Nobody has died.* _(I'd be quite impressed if someone had managed it, but...)_

*Day 1 has begun. 48 hours for discussion. Voting will end on 2022-09-04 (Sunday) at 23:00 UTC.*



Spoiler: Pings / Playerlist



@M&F
@JackPK
@lolfoxes (@Wisper & @Zori)
@Zero Moment
@RedneckPhoenix
@Herbe
@haneko
@Butterfree
and, fine... @Eifie 





Spoiler: Unselected Characters






Spoiler: M&F - Dorian & Buizel



*Dorian & Buizel*
_"If there really are Buizel bigger than mine, I’d love to see them alongside the one I have, for comparison’s sake. One that’s at least around 2'8" would be great!"_

Your beloved Buizel is the talk of the town; its sleek fur, its shining eyes, its graceful tails. But you can't help but wonder. Surely there must be bigger Buizel out there? Wouldn't it be exciting to see such a huge Buizel? Maybe one of these mysterious strangers who keep falling out of the sky can help you find one.

You are aligned with the *Villagers*. You win when all living players are *Villagers*, or when nothing can prevent this from happening. _(You don't win if all players die simultaneously.)_





Spoiler: JackPK - Professor Laventon & Rowlet/Cyndaquil/Oshawott



*Professor Laventon & Rowlet/Cyndaquil/Oshawott (your choice)*
_"Come now — I am a scientist! My job is to observe and explain any and all phenomena. I concern myself only with facts!"_

You've travelled to this new unexplored region to document its native Pokémon species, but now your compatriots are trying to pop each other off! That's just not cricket. Well, one mustn't grumble. It would be a jolly poor show if you couldn't use your top-notch research skills to root out some useful information, eh?

You are aligned with the *Villagers*. You win when all living players are *Villagers*, or when nothing can prevent this from happening. _(You don't win if all players die simultaneously.)_





Spoiler: lolfoxes - Cyllene & Abra



*Cyllene & Abra*
_"Try to retain your composure, if you can. Allowing your emotions to run amok will only make you vulnerable."_

You are known for your fair and even-minded captaincy of the Galaxy Team's Survey Corps, always offering everyone a fair hearing.

Your alignment is the *Spectators' Choice*. They may pick any alignment that I am capable of moderating, including one that does not otherwise exist in this game. You may communicate with them freely in a group PM until they make a decision (which they may do at any time, using any method they wish, including the acceptance of bribes). The spectators are, of course, permitted to privately communicate with each other outside the group PM.

If you don't have an alignment when the game ends, you lose.





Spoiler: Zero Moment - Emmet & Eelektross



*Emmet & Eelektross*
_"What I do. What I say. Always the same. Follow the rules. Safe driving! Follow the schedules. Everyone smile! Check safety. Everything's ready! Aim for victory! All aboard!"_

Your brother was taken from you. Nobody else seems to remember him, but you do. It has taken you a long time to complete your research, neglecting your duties as a Subway Boss, but now you are ready to travel to the Sinnoh of old to find him. You will go to verrrrrry great lengths to get him back.

You are aligned with the *Subway Bosses*, and may communicate with your brother Ingo in private if he is present in the game. You win when the *Subway Bosses* compose 50% or more of living players, in which case you leave the game and the game continues (unless all other living players are *Villagers*, in which case they lose).

Once per night, the two of you may collectively choose one of your partner Pokémon to Dynamax for the duration of the night. _(This does not count as a night action.)_





Spoiler: RedneckPhoenix - Calaba & Bibarel



*Calaba & Bibarel*
_"I don’t need any help from your sort. Or the Diamond Clan, for that matter. That young lady, Arezu, offered to help, but associating with the Diamond Clan... It just won’t do."_

You've been Ursaluna's warden for many decades now. When you've lived as long as that, you learn something about who can safely trust whom.

You are aligned with the *Pearl Clan*, and may communicate with them in private. You win when all living players are *Pearl Clan*, or when nothing can prevent this from happening. _(You don't win if all players die simultaneously.)_

Each night, one *Pearl Clan* member may target a player. That player dies. _(You can't use this action at the same time as the one granted by your role.)_





Spoiler: Herbe - Volo & Giratina



*Volo & Giratina*
_"My desire to meet Arceus cannot be contained any longer! I need to know what it is! I MUST know what it is! If I can meet Arceus myself, then I may also be able to subjugate its power... And using that, I will attempt to create a new, better world!"_

You are the brilliant mastermind behind the space-time rift. By allowing Giratina entrance to this world, you can usurp almighty Arceus' power and become as a God yourself. But for that to happen... first, everyone in Hisui must die.

You are *self-aligned*. You win when you are the only living player, or when nothing can prevent this from happening.





Spoiler: haneko - Melli & Skuntank



*Melli & Skuntank*
_"Oh, Adaman. Oh, oh, oh, you silly, foolish boy. Don’t you understand anything? Everyone has work they are suited to and work they are not."_

You are Lord Electrode's warden and you are just so incredibly fucking irritating, oh my god. Literally just your mere presence fucks stuff up for everyone around you. I hope you're happy, you little prick.

You are aligned with the *Diamond Clan*, and may communicate with them in private. You win when all living players are *Diamond Clan*, or when nothing can prevent this from happening. _(You don't win if all players die simultaneously.)_

Each night, one *Diamond Clan* member may target a player. That player dies.





Spoiler: Butterfree - Ingo & Sneasler



*Ingo & Sneasler*
_"I’m starting to recall a man who looked...like me. We’d battle and discuss Pokémon, I think..."_

You woke up here in Hisui some years ago with no knowledge of your past, save flashes of memories that come and go and a vague sense that you are not where you're supposed to be. But as the rift grows, you're beginning to piece things together again. Recently you saw someone, someone new and yet also someone you recognised, a silhouette that looked familiar, just a flash in the snow, and then he was gone... If it means answers about your past, you'll stop at nothing to find him again, and your dear friend Lady Sneasler will help you every step of the way.

You are aligned with the *Subway Bosses*, and may communicate with your brother Emmet in private if he is present in the game. You win when the *Subway Bosses* compose 50% or more of living players, in which case you leave the game and the game continues (unless all other living players are *Villagers*, in which case they lose).

Once per night, the two of you may collectively choose one of your partner Pokémon to Dynamax for the duration of the night. _(This does not count as a night action.)_


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## qenya (Sep 2, 2022)

goddammit half my fuckin images have broken

oh well you can still right-click and open in new tab to see them if you really care that much I guess.


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## JackPK (Sep 2, 2022)

good news everyone (except qenya's images)


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## JackPK (Sep 2, 2022)

aww, ingo and emmet both not getting chosen. poor guys


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## M&F (Sep 2, 2022)

qenya said:


> *Nobody has died.* _(I'd be quite impressed if someone had managed it, but...)_


the best time to plant a tree was 20 years ago; the next best time is right now

*Explode RedneckPhoenix*


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## lolfoxes (Sep 3, 2022)

Hi everyone! Excited to be here.

~W


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## lolfoxes (Sep 3, 2022)

nya

-nya


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## lolfoxes (Sep 3, 2022)

me being too lazy to change my username before the game and not not wanting to change it during the game or sign as the new one because that'd confuse people

~W


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## Herbe (Sep 3, 2022)

Meow...  A lot to absorb here already!!!


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## M&F (Sep 3, 2022)

anyways, relentless memery aside -- we get something to chew on from the start, so, why not start chewing, eh

it looks like we've got one hell of a panoply of possible alignments running around here -- you've got the multiball mafia, you've got a full third-party faction, you've got at least one lone self-aligned role that didn't get picked, and you've even got freakin Spectators' Choice up there in case this salad needed wasabi

still, one thing that's possible to discern up there is that RedneckPhoenix and haneko were presented with at least one mafia-aligned option that they didn't pick -- which is no guarantee that they didn't have any other scum options to pick from, but it does put them both at higher odds than average of being villa, I'd expect


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## lolfoxes (Sep 3, 2022)

there are 24 total rolecards for 8 players
??? town
??? diamond
??? pearl
2 subway bosses
??? self aligned cards
can anyone whos played the game give a rough estimate of how many diamond or pearl clan members exist in the game for a possible upper cap
otherwise i might guess at something like 10/4/4/2/4?

-nya


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## M&F (Sep 3, 2022)

oh, and aside all the PMs that aren't in the game, there's that piece of the one that _is_ in, huh? I imagine we're not exactly at liberty to ask for clarifications on this role that isn't ours, but it beats me whether "1 extra elimination vote" here means doublevoting or the ability to lynch an additional player.

anyway, the fact that it all leads up to a nightkill for the role's owner and it doesn't seem to include any benefits for town makes it seem to me very much like a self-aligned role, although I think I'm going to need time to fully wrap my head around what this conspiracy minigame is and what our options in the face of it are


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## qenya (Sep 3, 2022)

M&F said:


> it beats me whether "1 extra elimination vote" here means doublevoting or the ability to lynch an additional player.


"1 extra elimination vote" means that that player's elimination vote (as opposed to their conspiracy vote) counts as 1 more when tallying them up. So doublevoting, yes


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## JackPK (Sep 3, 2022)

lolfoxes said:


> there are 24 total rolecards for 8 players
> ??? town
> ??? diamond
> ??? pearl
> ...


I'm betting the upper cap is capped based on game balance rather than number of characters in PLA, since PLA has a character from both clans for each of the 5 areas + a leader for each clan = 6 members in each clan, which sounds excessive for a 24-rolecard 8-player game


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## lolfoxes (Sep 3, 2022)

also worth noting that M&F and Jack are the _only _ones who have a revealed thrown village card
if its about half/half for town non-town cards total

~1/8 TTT
~3/8 TTN
~3/8 TNN
~1/8 NNN

if they threw a T card then that rules out NNN
chance theyre holding a T card right now is approx i think (1/7 + 3/14)? which is in the ballpark of 35%
as opposed to the ballpart of 65% of all the ppl who threw nontown cards?
idk
maths

-nya


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## M&F (Sep 3, 2022)

lolfoxes said:


> there are 24 total rolecards for 8 players
> ??? town
> ??? diamond
> ??? pearl
> ...


better someone who played the game drop the stats, but bulbapedia does tell me each clan has their 1 leader, 5 wardens, and also 1 former member (although those would be at least as likely to be self-aligned roles or even villa I'd imagine), to a potential total of 7

(although in any case it's not necessarily going to be as 1:1 as all that -- Ingo is with Pearl Clan in the games but here he's with Emmet instead)

there may or may not be an upper limit on how many possible villagers there are to work with in the game either, although, well, see the dude I didn't pick -- yall tell me how relevant he is exactly, but he doesn't even have a page on bulbapedia.


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## Herbe (Sep 3, 2022)

didn't play PLA, were there other subway bosses than Ingo and Emmet? Do y'all think we have to worry about that faction anymore after the two didn't get picked?


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## lolfoxes (Sep 3, 2022)

Herbe said:


> didn't play PLA, were there other subway bosses than Ingo and Emmet? Do y'all think we have to worry about that faction anymore after the two didn't get picked?


ive played BW and ingo/emmet are the only two subway bosses there
idk if they added another one but if i had to guess id guess probably not

-nya


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## M&F (Sep 3, 2022)

lolfoxes said:


> also worth noting that M&F and Jack are the _only _ones who have a revealed thrown village card
> if its about half/half for town non-town cards total
> 
> ~1/8 TTT
> ...


I hope this isn't going to turn out to be a monty hall problem--

anyway, I suppose there's no two ways around it; by the same logic I've used earlier, me and Jack are both looking more suspicious than average right now. I did pick villa still, but, well, that's exactly what I'd be claiming if I hadn't, obviously

nonetheless though, I may as well fully claim what my options were; besides that villa PM that I tossed, there was a mob one -- Diamond Clan, to be specific. so, if you take my word for it anyway, my options were T/T/N


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## lolfoxes (Sep 3, 2022)

we tossed our spec choice one and a self aligned one

but the wording of the card made the self aligned one seem benign

~W


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## lolfoxes (Sep 3, 2022)

oh also the emmet role kinda makes this irrelevant

but our flavor is someone who is not in legends arceus

so there's that as well

~W


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## lolfoxes (Sep 3, 2022)

M&F said:


> I hope this isn't going to turn out to be a monty hall problem--


yes
monty hall is breaking my brain
im trying to tell if thats correct or not

Oops! We ran into some problems.
You must wait at least 6 seconds before performing this action.


-nya


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## lolfoxes (Sep 3, 2022)

nyanty hall problem

~w


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## JackPK (Sep 3, 2022)

M&F said:


> anyway, I suppose there's no two ways around it; by the same logic I've used earlier, me and Jack are both looking more suspicious than average right now. I did pick villa still, but, well, that's exactly what I'd be claiming if I hadn't, obviously
> 
> nonetheless though, I may as well fully claim what my options were; besides that villa PM that I tossed, there was a mob one -- Diamond Clan, to be specific. so, if you take my word for it anyway, my options were T/T/N


likewise, my claim also holds no water because it's exactly what I'd falseclaim if I were falseclaiming, but I did also pick villa and my options were TTN

the other one I tossed was Palina from Pearl Clan, whose flavor description talked a lot about a bond with Growlithe that I don't have the brains to try to correlate with a role to imagine what role that might've been, if it was anything more specific than just generic scum


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## lolfoxes (Sep 3, 2022)

lolfoxes said:


> oh also the emmet role kinda makes this irrelevant
> 
> but our flavor is someone who is not in legends arceus


ive seen pla!emmet fanart so much on twitter that i wasnt sure

-nya


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## M&F (Sep 3, 2022)

JackPK said:


> likewise, my claim also holds no water because it's exactly what I'd falseclaim if I were falseclaiming, but I did also pick villa and my options were TTN
> 
> the other one I tossed was Palina from Pearl Clan, whose flavor description talked a lot about a bond with Growlithe that I don't have the brains to try to correlate with a role to imagine what role that might've been, if it was anything more specific than just generic scum


oh yeah, it may also be worth mentioning -- my mob option actually looked a lot like it wasn't vannila, although both of the PMs that did turn up are vannila


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## lolfoxes (Sep 3, 2022)

the discarded ones don't seem to be vanilla? at least not necessarily

~w


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## M&F (Sep 3, 2022)

oh, yeah, the discarded PMs all don't have revealed role powers anyway, I got that mixed up


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## lolfoxes (Sep 3, 2022)

hm

i wonder if non town pickers would have been told what an available town role did for fakeclaim reasons

~w


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## M&F (Sep 3, 2022)

kay, so, I've narrowed down the possible realities with the conspiracy thing:

There is a conspiracy (the randomly selected player is anyone other than the conspiracy runner)
-Everyone gets a PM, except for the target
-Target can get a doublevote if they vote that yes, there is a conspiracy
-If they vote no, or don't vote: the conspiracy runner gets a nightkill
-What everyone else votes straight-up does not matter

There is no conspiracy (the randomly selected player is the conspiracy runner)
-Only the conspiracy runner gets a PM
-Everyone who votes no gets a doublevote, if most people vote no
-If most people vote yes: the conspiracy runner gets a nightkill

the likeliest scenario we'll be dealing with in any given Day is that there is indeed a conspiracy; in those scenarios, the player who is the conspiracy target can simply note that they didn't get a PM and vote Yes, although the risk would remain that there is no conspiracy and they just screwed themselves out of a doublevote that a bunch of other people may be getting for themselves. in any case, though, in those scenarios, the players other than the conspiracy target always have the option of blowing the whistle and essentially conceding the conspiracy target a doublevote; this is risky, as the conspiracy target is randomly selected and we can't all too well vet for them to be town, but an anti-town doublevote is still less of a hazard than an anti-town nightkill, and that's likely what we'd be eating obligatorily if the conspiracy target does not vote yes.

all put together, blowing the whistle seems like the better option (provided there is a conspiracy, anyway), although we do have about 48 hours to discuss whether we want to do that or not


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## lolfoxes (Sep 3, 2022)

lolfoxes said:


> hm
> 
> i wonder if non town pickers would have been told what an available town role did for fakeclaim reasons
> 
> ~w


im guessing given the track record of fakeclaims on this site that no

-nya


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## Zero Moment (Sep 3, 2022)

Butterfree, my Schrödinger's Brother! I am glad we both realized what a terrible idea it would be trying to get us both in top 4, or top 2, and instead opened the box to some other choice.


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## RedneckPhoenix (Sep 3, 2022)

*herbe*
i'm at work you'll have to wait for the explanation/punchline/whatever till later


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## RedneckPhoenix (Sep 3, 2022)

for reasons that some may or may not know herbe has some kind of incentive to choose ingroup to maximize the chance of getting to conspire with a certain person through the course of the game, and as such an incentive to choose another role over the cool 3p; this did not work out, seemingly.

to metagame even harder, herbe seemed jealous of me when i kept rolling 3p in town of salem so something much more enticing must have come up


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## RedneckPhoenix (Sep 3, 2022)

also i'm just gonna say it cuz i don't want this kill falling into a seemingly-evil role's hands: zm there's a conspiracy against you


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## M&F (Sep 3, 2022)

ah, so we've taken our first foray into metaing vis-a-vis what people would pick if given a choice, huh? I thought we'd at least buy each other dinner before that-


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## RedneckPhoenix (Sep 3, 2022)

also i would like to mention that i will not be around for eod since it's literally exactly at the time i start work


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## Butterfree (Sep 3, 2022)

M&F said:


> kay, so, I've narrowed down the possible realities with the conspiracy thing:
> 
> There is a conspiracy (the randomly selected player is anyone other than the conspiracy runner)
> -Everyone gets a PM, except for the target
> ...


Thanks for laying this all out, when I read the daystart post last night I was far too tired and headachey to process what on earth

Either way, yeah, I don't see much reason not to reveal the conspiracy, unless we're _really_ determined that the player in question doublevoting would be particularly alarming? And like, if the conspiracy target is a mafia member with a partner, wouldn't the partner just tell them about the conspiracy either way...?

A thought I had re role PMs was that maybe powers were decided afterwards to balance whatever team composition we wound up with, since the whole choosing your alignment thing would otherwise make for a pretty swingy game. Dunno.


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## Herbe (Sep 3, 2022)

RedneckPhoenix said:


> for reasons that some may or may not know herbe has some kind of incentive to choose ingroup to maximize the chance of getting to conspire with a certain person through the course of the game, and as such an incentive to choose another role over the cool 3p; this did not work out, seemingly.
> 
> to metagame even harder, herbe seemed jealous of me when i kept rolling 3p in town of salem so something much more enticing must have come up


first off, _honey, _i think the incentive you're bringing up now is a double edged sword - "this did not work out, seemingly." (idk how obvious it is but the plot is that we would have picked maf in order to be on the same team because we are dating.) but there are two competing mafia factions, both of which want the other dead and all the villagers dead. so the chances that we would have actually ended up on the same team is a coinflip. (i think, right? HDRD and HPRP are options along with HDRP and HPRD... seems 50/50 unless theres some monty hall bullshit).  to metagame even even harder you were sooooo psyched when you thought i was on your mafia team in TOS (it wasn't, someone else picked my name cause blah blah blah shenanigans but rnp told me after the game he thought it was me and was like yoooooo and addressed this rando as such) so it's not like this incentive wouldn't be there for you either although your odd little mindgames could be at play here (such as WIFOMing me trying to pick mafia and knowing he could probably get a guaranteed mafkill in this scenario.) (maybe involving figuring the thing out about the low chance with the seperate ingroups and bailing in order to target me about it)

tl;dr i'm not sure that this scenario/accusation/even incentive is AI for RNP but it sure is shenanigans

second, dearest_, _that 3p role was not cool at all lmao. be the last one surviving? thats sooo rare for me and honestly would stress me out. i'm not good at not getting killed lmao. even on my best days i don't seem towny while Literally Town. i'm an odd little fellow and that doesn't mean that i will probably survive that long. my public unclaimed role would just be boring for me tbh.

third, sweetheart, i wasn't jealous i was mad you kept using scrolls to Serial Killer me!!!!!!! didn't mean /i/ wanted to be serial killer meant that you're bullying me !!!!!!!!!!

.....anyway you totally would have been right and i do prefer playing scum/ingroup (and everyone knows that in my meta) but i literally was not given the option. :/


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## Herbe (Sep 3, 2022)

*theres a conspiracy* boldvote (is that how we do it here)


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## haneko (Sep 3, 2022)

can confirm a conspiracy is afoot


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## JackPK (Sep 3, 2022)

*conspiracy yes* (do we indeed have to bold this? the message in the D1 post calls it a "vote" so I guess yes?)


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## qenya (Sep 3, 2022)

JackPK said:


> do we indeed have to bold this? the message in the D1 post calls it a "vote" so I guess yes?


it would make it easier for me to record if you did, please :D


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## Zero Moment (Sep 3, 2022)

RedneckPhoenix said:


> also i'm just gonna say it cuz i don't want this kill falling into a seemingly-evil role's hands: zm there's a conspiracy against you


knew it


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## lolfoxes (Sep 3, 2022)

if i'm parsing the role correctly the optimal way to do it is for everyone but zm to vote no?

and then if zm is the one with the role we all get a doublevote and that gets publicly confirm, if not zm does and he's cleared from it?

i think?

~w


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## JackPK (Sep 3, 2022)

lolfoxes said:


> if i'm parsing the role correctly the optimal way to do it is for everyone but zm to vote no?
> 
> and then if zm is the one with the role we all get a doublevote and that gets publicly confirm, if not zm does and he's cleared from it?
> 
> ...


I don't think the player with the conspiracy role and the target of the conspiracy are necessarily the same person? and in fact since we all but ZM were privately informed of the conspiracy against ZM, based on the fragment in the D1 post, I think that actually clears ZM from having the conspiracy role?


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## JackPK (Sep 3, 2022)

so since we all got PMed that ZM is the target of the conspiracy, that means we already know he doesn't have the conspiracy role

honestly what MF gamed out seems bulletproof to me which makes me kind of wonder what the point of this role is. unless kate just didn't expect it to be gamed out like this immediately lol 

as far as I can tell, assuming we all blow the whistle every day (and vote no if we all agree there's no whistle to be blown), all that happens is one (or all but the conspiracy role, on a no) person/people get extra weight on their vote and the conspiracy role gets jack shit. sounds like it kinda sucks to be the conspiracy role, tbh


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## qenya (Sep 3, 2022)

*EoD is in slightly under 25 hours

Elimination votes:*
None

*Conspiracy votes:*
Conspiracy - Herbe (#41), Jack (#43)
No conspiracy - None


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## qenya (Sep 3, 2022)

Corrected votecount, courtesy of the spectator chat who are vastly more competent than me apparently lol

*Elimination votes:*
Herbe - RedneckPhoenix (#34)

*Conspiracy votes:*
Conspiracy - Herbe (#41), Jack (#43)
No conspiracy - None


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## lolfoxes (Sep 3, 2022)

Zero Moment said:


> RedneckPhoenix said:
> 
> 
> > also i'm just gonna say it cuz i don't want this kill falling into a seemingly-evil role's hands: zm there's a conspiracy against you
> ...


ngl this is like the towniest post in the thread

-nya


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## M&F (Sep 3, 2022)

Herbe said:


> first off, _honey_








herbe is turning into him someone please call the super girls

(actually reading the thread in 3... 2...)


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## lolfoxes (Sep 3, 2022)

im hyperfixating on crossword
im also gay

-nya


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## lolfoxes (Sep 3, 2022)

*haneko*

ill just drop this here and going back to crossword
-nya


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## Herbe (Sep 3, 2022)

M&F said:


> Herbe said:
> 
> 
> > first off, _honey_
> ...


oh my god do you have any idea how much of a tokyo mew mew stan i am like have i mentioned this before :3


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## RedneckPhoenix (Sep 3, 2022)

Spoiler: image






giratina when herbe doesn't pick self-aligned


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## Butterfree (Sep 3, 2022)

*There is a conspiracy afoot*


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## lolfoxes (Sep 3, 2022)

*there is no conspiracy in ba sing se*

~w


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## lolfoxes (Sep 3, 2022)

oh wait hydra happened and i missed posts

sigh

~w


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## lolfoxes (Sep 3, 2022)

lolfoxes said:


> oh wait hydra happened and i missed posts
> 
> sigh
> 
> ~w


gay issue

-nya


----------



## lolfoxes (Sep 3, 2022)

lolfoxes said:


> lolfoxes said:
> 
> 
> > oh wait hydra happened and i missed posts
> ...


:p

<3

~w


----------



## M&F (Sep 3, 2022)

JackPK said:


> as far as I can tell, assuming we all blow the whistle every day (and vote no if we all agree there's no whistle to be blown), all that happens is one (or all but the conspiracy role, on a no) person/people get extra weight on their vote and the conspiracy role gets jack shit. sounds like it kinda sucks to be the conspiracy role, tbh


exactly -- and to be frank it makes me wonder whether the public drop we're getting is entirely honest. no better place for some bastardry than a role for which the defining mechanic is conspiracy, right? still, this is complicated enough without adding that yomi layer on top, so it's probably best we get used to it before we start questioning it

anyway, that sure is a show going on between RNP and Herbe, huh? it's only been an exchange of like a couple of posts, but, let's see, from the top:
-Herbe and RNP had been wanting to be gay and do crimes in this game; however -- and both of them have acknowledged as much, I think? -- they are not, to the best of their knowledge, in the same faction after all (which is sensible, given the abundance of factions and the fact that cooperating on picking the same one after getting their PMs would definitely have been a breach of the rules).
-RNP is pushing Herbe, based on that knowledge coupled with the assumption that Herbe may have tried taking a shot in the dark with one of the two mafia factions anyway, backed up by the arguments that a) Herbe forwent a likely serial killer PM (per the public drop) despite having previously seemed interested in playing as SK, so they must have been even more interested in another one of their options; b) Herbe's typical preferred alignment to play is, indeed, mafia
-(as Herbe correctly points out subsequently, though, it's worth noting that it's just as plausible for RNP to have taken that shot in the dark, potentially making this a tiss between mafiosxs from different sides of the multiball; at least, though, we do know that RNP opted against at least one possible scum PM)
-anyway, besides the above, Herbe is claiming in response that a) they were not, in fact, particularly interested in playing SK, and especially not in dealing with a survivor wincon (although SKs do traditionally have some limited deathproofing in order to make the wincon a little less of an ordeal); b) although they acknowledge that they prefer to play as mafia, none of their PMs had that option at all

I do think I wouldn't have picked mafia if I were Herbe -- the thing with them preferring to play ingroup isn't much of a secret at all, and if you're going to be playing with a meta-target on your back from the start, the last thing you want is to pick a faction where you're not expendable. but that's not what they're saying, now is it? they're saying they didn't have mafia options at all -- which seems unlikely to me that any player wouldn't have that if qenya had any interest in this game actually having a mafia faction--

(although we do have pretty preciously little to go off of when speculating on other players' full arrays of PMs, anyway, especially because we're not exactly going to get anyone truthfully claiming "oh yeah all my options were anti-town")



lolfoxes said:


> *haneko*
> 
> ill just drop this here and going back to crossword
> -nya


actually, while you're at it, could you help me with this crossword hint? I'm a little stumped

3 ACROSS - Your reasoning for that vote.


----------



## lolfoxes (Sep 3, 2022)

M&F said:


> 3 ACROSS - Your reasoning for that vote.


how many letters, any hints?

~w


----------



## lolfoxes (Sep 4, 2022)

M&F said:


> 3 ACROSS - Your reasoning for that vote.


what type of crossword are you doing that has a 3 across lmao
that implies that 1 across is 2 letters long or that 1 and 2 have no across clues

its mostly probably not alignment indicative and talking about the conspiracy as the only thing is like, meh
but its the sort of thing that a mafia could do and at the very least haneko isnt displaying much energy

-nya


----------



## Zero Moment (Sep 4, 2022)

*There is a conspiracy against me!*


----------



## RedneckPhoenix (Sep 4, 2022)

*cosnflpry*


----------



## RedneckPhoenix (Sep 4, 2022)

...hm. wait.


----------



## RedneckPhoenix (Sep 4, 2022)

nvm conspiracy is just "while you are alive" not a night action

was boutta ask why someone else got to use a night action n0 and i didn't


----------



## lolfoxes (Sep 4, 2022)

good morning chat

~w


----------



## Herbe (Sep 4, 2022)

aurgh. i don't want to let it rand between me and haneko but i also just don't feel like i have any good reason outside of self-preservation to vote haneko. haneko has not arrived to self advocate at all or push back on the vote though.

brrreeeeerrrrrrghhhhhhhhhhh *haneko* for now but just for the sake of self pres


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## lolfoxes (Sep 4, 2022)

arguably, this is a meta tell, but i'm not confident on saying it actually is one without seeing haneko play town

~w


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## qenya (Sep 4, 2022)

About 3 hours to EoD!

*Elimination votes:*
Herbe - RedneckPhoenix (#34)
haneko - lolfoxes (#54), Herbe (#70)

*Conspiracy votes:*
Conspiracy - Herbe (#41), Jack (#43), Butterfree (#57), Zero Moment (#65), RedneckPhoenix (#66)*
No conspiracy - lolfoxes (#58)

*this is my best guess at what this post means but please let me know before EoD if i'm misinterpreting


----------



## RedneckPhoenix (Sep 4, 2022)

Herbe said:


> aurgh. i don't want to let it rand between me and haneko


ok hold up i would like to remind everyone that the reason me and herbe are dating is BECAUSE herbe wanted a vote to rand


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## RedneckPhoenix (Sep 4, 2022)

this is herbe rolling ingroup for the first time in a long time and playing cautiously bc they don't want it to end


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## Herbe (Sep 4, 2022)

RedneckPhoenix said:


> Herbe said:
> 
> 
> > aurgh. i don't want to let it rand between me and haneko
> ...


Yeah I Wasn’t One Half Of The Rand That Time Though


----------



## RedneckPhoenix (Sep 4, 2022)

town herbe would have voted for me and made the rand, and i quote, "spicier"


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## Herbe (Sep 4, 2022)

Fuck you for stealing that idea from me while i’m trying to eat dinner and having to mobilepost


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## Herbe (Sep 4, 2022)

i was gonna do it out of spite but now i can’t even —- AAAUFURTHGHTHR*RNP*SJFJDJGJjfjgjdejs ugh. I just wanted to eat my dinner first you Fool. ruining my spite by calling it first


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## Herbe (Sep 4, 2022)

i can’t even do the right spite calculus right now and all the Spite Payoff from voting him got diluted from his callout >:(


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## RedneckPhoenix (Sep 4, 2022)

i'm actually gonna ask for an *extension* cuz if things keep going as they are i'm gonna be working during all the day hours and off during night hours


----------



## RedneckPhoenix (Sep 4, 2022)

plus it's almost eod and nobody's here


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## JackPK (Sep 4, 2022)

heavily tempted to vote RNP on grounds that this push against Herbe feels like openwolfing since it's only(? unless I missed something?) nominally based on vibes about how RNP thinks Herbe would have chosen a role, which feels like an intentionally insubstantial argument to me

however, based on my memory of past games (y'all it feels like it's been so long since I've played much mafia, contest pokemafia notwithstanding) I don't thiiiiiiink RNP is the type to openwolf? however, I can't remember how many times (if any) he was wolf at all in those past games


----------



## JackPK (Sep 4, 2022)

meanwhile the lolfoxes hydra is giving me mixed signals but I can't tell whether I'm actually suspicious of them or if their respective posting styles are just dissonant enough to jostle my brain


----------



## JackPK (Sep 4, 2022)

I keep getting confused which side of the lolfoxes hydra is doing what -- case in point, I was about to complain that wisper voted haneko and declined to explain why and zori had to come in and explain, but then I looked back and zori was in fact the one who voted haneko

this is probably the reason for why my brain can't latch onto what to think about them


----------



## lolfoxes (Sep 4, 2022)

we're like, basically the same person, kinda

so it's fine

~w


----------



## Herbe (Sep 4, 2022)

JackPK said:


> heavily tempted to vote RNP on grounds that this push against Herbe feels like openwolfing since it's only(? unless I missed something?) nominally based on vibes about how RNP thinks Herbe would have chosen a role, which feels like an intentionally insubstantial argument to me


fwiw i do think rnp is being genuine in why he suspects me he's just ridiculously tunneled about it


----------



## Herbe (Sep 4, 2022)

whether that suspicion is coming from a villagery or a "im ingroup and they must be opposite-ingroup" place (or whatever other alignment) is up for anyones guess tho


----------



## M&F (Sep 4, 2022)

oh shitd eod soon time to work fast


----------



## M&F (Sep 4, 2022)

kay so I think an *extension* would be good as well if that's how we're doing it, if only because this day's only just gotten spicy and it doesn't look like most of the playerbase's been around to eat the peppers

assuming the ref will call it where lands though, well...
-I'm not voting for haneko; it's a little early for what's practically an inactive lynch (slightly better than one since haneko demonstrably has been around and still only contributed a very small and easy contribution, but still)
-so if it's down to the mess between Herbe and RNP, I'm actually slightly more in favour of lynching *Herbe*, as I remain somewhat skeptical of the whole no possible mafia PMs thing; I realize that's not exactly something they can argue against, but, well, I think it's probably the least worse option if we're out of time


----------



## M&F (Sep 4, 2022)

lolfoxes said:


> what type of crossword are you doing that has a 3 across lmao
> that implies that 1 across is 2 letters long or that 1 and 2 have no across clues


also, be nice to me, crosswords in my country are built different-


----------



## qenya (Sep 4, 2022)

Ok... I'm not sure if this is the right call but given the general lack of disagreement with RNP's suggestion, and the apparent apathy, and the fact I did float the idea of allowing extensions in the signup thread, even though nobody seemed to care about it particularly at the time... I'm gonna give you folks the requested extension. I don't think it would be healthy to make a habit of this though - on future days I will be more strict with the time limit.

*24-hour extension. Day 1 will now end on 2022-09-05 (Monday) at 23:00 UTC.* _(There will be no further extensions unless a day action is used.)_

*Elimination votes:*
Herbe - RedneckPhoenix (#34), M&F (#90)
haneko - lolfoxes (#54)
RedneckPhoenix - Herbe (#78)

*Conspiracy votes:*
Conspiracy - Herbe (#41), Jack (#43), Butterfree (#57), Zero Moment (#65), RedneckPhoenix (#66)*
No conspiracy - lolfoxes (#58)


----------



## Herbe (Sep 4, 2022)

mrg. *unvote* for now and i'll regroup later cause there's no point in keeping the vote on out of spite when it won't rand anymore and also, i do think rnp is being genuine in his tunnellogic


----------



## Herbe (Sep 4, 2022)

other than the haneko inactivecallout i wonder if bfree or zm have Thoughts to come talk about more with all this extra 24 hours


----------



## lolfoxes (Sep 5, 2022)

Herbe said:


> mrg. *unvote* for now and i'll regroup later cause there's no point in keeping the vote on out of spite when it won't rand anymore and also, i do think rnp is being genuine in his tunnellogic


zori (currently does not have account access) thinks this is villagery by the way

~w


----------



## lolfoxes (Sep 5, 2022)

M&F said:


> I do think I wouldn't have picked mafia if I were Herbe -- the thing with them preferring to play ingroup isn't much of a secret at all, and if you're going to be playing with a meta-target on your back from the start, the last thing you want is to pick a faction where you're not expendable. but that's not what they're saying, now is it? they're saying they didn't have mafia options at all -- which seems unlikely to me that any player wouldn't have that if qenya had any interest in this game actually having a mafia faction--


curious what changed between this and your herbe vote
-nya 
(paraphrased by w)


----------



## Zero Moment (Sep 5, 2022)

Herbe said:


> other than the haneko inactivecallout i wonder if bfree or zm have Thoughts to come talk about more with all this extra 24 hours


honestly RNP's initial callout post convinced me, and then herbe's defense(s) unconvinced me. Other than that, I've been waiting for haneko to come out and say... anything, really.


----------



## M&F (Sep 5, 2022)

lolfoxes said:


> M&F said:
> 
> 
> > I do think I wouldn't have picked mafia if I were Herbe -- the thing with them preferring to play ingroup isn't much of a secret at all, and if you're going to be playing with a meta-target on your back from the start, the last thing you want is to pick a faction where you're not expendable. but that's not what they're saying, now is it? they're saying they didn't have mafia options at all -- which seems unlikely to me that any player wouldn't have that if qenya had any interest in this game actually having a mafia faction--
> ...


I'm curious as to where you're seeing a change, really -- I voted based exactly on the argumentation you're quoting + urgency and no particular desire to let it rand

anyways, we did get the extension after all, so let's not disappoint qenya for handing that down, shall we? I want a little more in terms of analysis and reads and statements from everyone, including but not limited to the ones who have largely been silent so far

(and I will try to offer up some on my own as well when it's not midnight)


----------



## lolfoxes (Sep 5, 2022)

M&F said:


> I'm curious as to where you're seeing a change, really -- I voted based exactly on the argumentation you're quoting + urgency and no particular desire to let it rand


there's a dissonance between thinking herbe wouldn't have willingly picked mafia and wanting to vote them

~w


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## RedneckPhoenix (Sep 5, 2022)

hey herbe just for fun what's the name of your role and the other card you didn't pick


----------



## RedneckPhoenix (Sep 5, 2022)

(when herbe wakes up, of course. i know full well herbe is asleep rn.)


----------



## lolfoxes (Sep 5, 2022)

vague head thoughts

gooder
herbe
zm jack rnp
butterfree mf
haneko
badder

-nya


----------



## lolfoxes (Sep 5, 2022)

i think herbes flipping onto haneko to save themselves, then flipping off to rnp and then to unvote when extension was made shows a legitimate desire to actually vote out a mafia rather than just to survive another day
i think its probably the most solidly villagery thing that ive seen in the thread so far

-nya


----------



## haneko (Sep 5, 2022)

I am not very energetic BC I am pretty sick rn

I need to do some proper reading of everyone analyses and stuff so I can think of who to vote for


----------



## haneko (Sep 5, 2022)

ok, so first of all, I want to explain that I'm not doing meta reads of which alignment people are based on past games because I haven't participated in enough games to really do that IMO. I have ended up as mafia in every past game I can remember so far, though, so I can see why people are quick to learn towards mafia this time around - but I'd also like to point out that as lolfoxes said nobody's seen me play town. It seems kind of unfair to do meta reads on me when the meta doesn't show much other than "if haneko is mafia, which she usually is, she plays like this"

I don't think my playstyle would be much different between maf/villager for what it's worth.

Onto who to vote for. I'm going to choose *Butterfree* since she's also been inactive; she discarded a 3p role so her options must have been:

villager villager 3p
villager mafia 3p (x2 of these for the two different factions)
mafia mafia 3p
mafia 3p 3p (x2 for the two different factions)

basically there's a good chance she is either 3p or mafia. @Butterfree what say you?

(And yeah, this is mostly self preservation so that the EOD vote is at least a rand and not just me lol.)

Finally this is unrelated to everything but my other discarded role was part of the Undead Cult, a 3p faction. I'd like to know how many other people got a cult option and discarded it - the info I got suggests the Undead Cult is invisible to the game thread, but gets nightkills.


----------



## haneko (Sep 5, 2022)

also I forgor to bold my *there is a conspiracy *vote oops


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## Herbe (Sep 5, 2022)

haneko said:


> villager villager 3p
> villager mafia 3p (x2 of these for the two different factions)
> mafia mafia 3p
> mafia 3p 3p (x2 for the two different factions)


you didn’t include V33 (or 333 tbh)


----------



## haneko (Sep 5, 2022)

Herbe said:


> haneko said:
> 
> 
> > villager villager 3p
> ...


o ye

Thanks for pointing it out


----------



## Herbe (Sep 5, 2022)

RedneckPhoenix said:


> hey herbe just for fun what's the name of your role and the other card you didn't pick


what are you, a cop?


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## RedneckPhoenix (Sep 5, 2022)

what are you, scared?


----------



## Herbe (Sep 5, 2022)

i picked beauregard and beaugene instead of ginter and rotom


----------



## Herbe (Sep 5, 2022)

someone whose actually played pla can read into that if they want


----------



## RedneckPhoenix (Sep 5, 2022)

so you chose ginter and rotom, then


----------



## RedneckPhoenix (Sep 5, 2022)

assuming, of course, you even told the truth


----------



## Herbe (Sep 5, 2022)

no i picked - can you read??


----------



## Herbe (Sep 5, 2022)

you think i’m a little liar guy huh


----------



## RedneckPhoenix (Sep 5, 2022)

considering ginter would also be a third party role, yeah


----------



## lolfoxes (Sep 5, 2022)

haneko said:


> I don't think my playstyle would be much different between maf/villager for what it's worth.


you dont think = you don't know?

-nya


----------



## lolfoxes (Sep 5, 2022)

haneko said:


> villager villager 3p
> villager mafia 3p (x2 of these for the two different factions)
> mafia mafia 3p
> mafia 3p 3p (x2 for the two different factions)
> ...


this assumes that the chances of getting villa/3p/mafia are 33/33/33 which is probably not true
this logic would also apply to every player equally well, regardless of what card they discarded

-nya


----------



## M&F (Sep 5, 2022)

lolfoxes said:


> M&F said:
> 
> 
> > I'm curious as to where you're seeing a change, really -- I voted based exactly on the argumentation you're quoting + urgency and no particular desire to let it rand
> ...


so like, there's a "but" and a different sentence right after that part of the paragraph. hope that helps! <3

-----

anyway, I just gave the this day a second rinse to compose a full list of reads

Towniest
-M&F: not only is she the towniest and most pure being in this thread, she's also right about everything, including USamerican crosswords

Towny
-JackPK: the rare discarded villa PM thing is a point-against -- I have to acknowledge that regardless that it also applies to me -- but he's been present and willing to take an original side on each present discussion; better vibes than average as far as I'm concerned
-lolfoxes: generally one of the solvier players around here, prodding and pushing discussion forward. although, and I seem to have completely missed a spot check on this the first time around, they're claiming their PMs were town/third-party/third-party, which strikes me as unlikely in the same vein as Herbe's claimed set. as :thonk: as that leaves me, though, good presence currently weighs favourably against speculating on the PM choice situation as that's not exactly a landscape that any of us have a very broad view of at the moment (least of all since apparently there's _yet another_ distinct third-party alignment that didn't crop up in the discarded PMs hellooooo??)
-haneko: if it were by thread behavior alone I'd be sitting firmly on null here; cooperative when prodded, but offering mostly self-defense for reasoning. however, though, the other PM they're claiming to have discarded seems plausible, which would mean they discarded both that and the publicized mafia PM; I'm inclined to consider town/mafia/third-party a likelier PM spread than most, and absent a whole lot of other factors, I'm willing to consider this enough to push haneko into a light townread. (plus I suppose I too would pick town if I were constantly randing mafia on this forum--)

Null
-Zero Moment: relatively silent as always; there's not much to say about it either way
-Butterfree: presently our next most inactive player, having come around exactly once to comment on the conspiracy situation. still, my feelings on preferring not to just inactive lynch on D1 if it can be helped remain -- albeit not as strongly since, well, she has officially gotten a little more time to show up and thus far has not

I'm of Two Minds Here
-RedneckPhoenix: clearly very interested in lynching Herbe, which makes it unlikely he's on the same team as them. there are more plausible ways for it to land as such than a simple villa vs wolf situation, though; remember, in a multiball mafia scenario, one of the most reliable ways to play is by scumhunting the other team specifically. (third-party shenanigans also exist as an outstanding possibility, not to mention as the kind of faction I could easily imagine RNP picking, but short of a straight-up Lyncher there are not many kinds of third-party role which would motivate opening with an all-out attack on a member of a different, unknown faction)

Herbe
-Herbe: well, it's a whole ongoing situation and I'll need more than the one paragraph to analyze it properly; coming up next!

Scummiest
-qenya: seriously trying to convince us that, given 3 options, she decided to become the GM
-Eifie: rancid vibes. we should lynch immediately tbh. (love you!)


----------



## haneko (Sep 5, 2022)

lolfoxes said:


> haneko said:
> 
> 
> > I don't think my playstyle would be much different between maf/villager for what it's worth.
> ...


from my perspective, there isn't much of a difference between how I play maf and how I play town, imo. - is what I mean. 



lolfoxes said:


> haneko said:
> 
> 
> > villager villager 3p
> ...


I think those chances work as a rough estimate of what the probability of someone being mafia/3p is, and yeah, I know that the logic applies to every player. 

... Which means there are more non-townies than townies in this game, unless I've got it wrong. (That would also track with the undead cult thing. Would still like to know if any of you got a cult option! It sounds like a real threat to town and I think we should find ways to safeguard against it!)


----------



## M&F (Sep 5, 2022)

so, on Herbe

first of all, my previous reasoning on the likelihood that Herbe's PMs really were town/town/third-party seems to be shot right now; I think the presence of _yet another_ potential scum faction in this setup (sounds like a cult?) officially pushes the needle from "it would be challenging for qenya to ensure that this setup has mafiosxs at all" to "qenya probably was not planning for the scum in this setup to necessarily be mafia".

Herbe has also subsequently claimed their flavor, both active and discarded, at RNP's prodding! so I went and looked the stuff up on bulbapedia. this is what I've got:
-Beauregard is listed as a minor member of the Security Corps, ostensibly the average street cops of Jubilife Village. this strikes me as an obviously town flavor, especially if I consider that my own villa role is also a literal villager from Jubilife. (also, though, there are _so many_ names listed as members of the Security Corps specifically and Galaxy Team in general??? jesus fuck, turns out there's not actually much of an upper limit on how many possible named villa roles there are around here)
-Ginter is a merchant guy who sells stuff to the player. he's also Volo's boss -- and you might recall, Volo is the public third-party PM who Herbe has discarded. however, unless I'm missing something, I do not see where RNP is coming from with the assertion that he'd also necessarily be a self-aligned role; it seems to me like this Ginter really is just some merchant dude, while Volo's reasons for being self-aligned have everything to do with his larger story role and not so much to do with his guild affiliation.
these flavors do seem consistent with a town/town/third-party PM spread, and I think that speaks at least slightly favorably of Herbe. however, I wouldn't be rushing to consider it bulletproof; not when Ginter comes up after a small amount of wikiwalking off Volo, and not when a scum Herbe would likely have prodded qenya for some plausible fakeclaims to make up for not having actually played PLA.

(incidentally, Ginter does have a Bulbapedia page and official art, which is more than can be said for some of the other named roles around here -- so that does make it likelier that he's present as a real role and not a fakeclaim. which brings me to this important point, though: *if any of you other than Herbe happen to have a Ginter PM, I invite you to counterclaim*.)

anyway, as behavior goes, I'm not inclined to agree that Herbe's has been preponderantly towny so far; sure, parking on an inactive haneko would be a way for them to preserve themselves on the short term -- but one, it wouldn't be a great way as it's somewhat of a transparent self-pres move which would easily be countered by a sufficient amount of townies growing suspicious, and two, well, regardless if it'd have been an optimal game move, it goes without saying that Herbe runs on chaos and audacity at least as much as effective gameplay and probably more. unvoting afterwards, similarly, is the least they could not to be entirely obvious about parking on someone else strictly for self-pres. I don't think any part of this behavior is really alignment-indicative.

at most, what I would consider potentially alignment-indicative is that Herbe hadn't produced much in terms of solvy contribution before RNP came in like a wrecking ball, and they've mostly been playing defense since then. I think that's scummier than townier, although not by a huuuuge amount exactly.

still, I think what this all comes down to is that I'd give it rather low odds that RNP and Herbe are on the same team, which in turn means good odds that lynching one of them will yield productive results. so the question is -- which one?
-lynching RNP and getting a town flip would... not confirm much per se, but would mean that his takes on Herbe have been, if tunnelly, genuinely scumhunt-oriented
-lynching RNP and getting a scum flip would... place Herbe firmly at either town, or a different scumfaction
-lynching Herbe and getting a town flip would... look pretty bad for RNP
-lynching Herbe and getting a scum flip would... place RNP firmly at either town, or a different scumfaction

... so I guess the best conclusion I can draw from this is that analyzing specific player interactions in a scenario with this many possible factions sucks ass. lynching Herbe would be marginally more informative, but if your best-case scenario for a given choice of lynch is that it'll be a slightly revelatory mislynch, that's not great.

I will therefore *unvote* and continue observing how this develops, on the off-chance that this tree gets shaken enough for something meatier to fall off; I don't think that's likely, unfortunately, but until we're staring down EoD again I can't say I'm exceptionally pressed on letting the blade fall on one particular side of this one


----------



## M&F (Sep 5, 2022)

(god dammit I should not have gotten that rambly. my apologies to yall who are stuck reading my entire posts. although I'm also not that sorry)


----------



## Herbe (Sep 5, 2022)

i love attention


----------



## Herbe (Sep 5, 2022)

i do plan on doing Thoughts with my Brain in like idk an hour or two im just so wobbly right now


----------



## Herbe (Sep 5, 2022)

but like enough time to discuss it before eod but im not makin any promises of immediacy yk

Anyway im gonna go have a lunch


----------



## M&F (Sep 5, 2022)

you know, though, on second thought, a lot of the information that I actually somewhat get to use in this scenario came from Herbe being on the backfoot. if I want to see the full picture here, I think the shoe needs to be on the other foot, at least for a spell

so, *RedneckPhoenix* -- what all have you got for us?


----------



## Herbe (Sep 5, 2022)

(he's gonna be asleep for a while i think, had a full night's work and only went to sleep like two hours ago... let's Hope to see him before eod)


----------



## RedneckPhoenix (Sep 5, 2022)

ginter isn't a jubilife villager he's the leader of the ginkgo guild is why third party


----------



## RedneckPhoenix (Sep 5, 2022)

anyways you ever work 3 12-hour shifts in a row


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## RedneckPhoenix (Sep 5, 2022)

i was supposed to be asleep rn you know. i was s'posta be all snoozing for another, like, 2 hours. who's bitter? i'm not bitter.


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## RedneckPhoenix (Sep 5, 2022)

i genuinely have no brainpower to play rn. i was supPOSED to after a restful slumber but then motherfuckers started celebrating labor day in the next room so fuck me i guess


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## RedneckPhoenix (Sep 5, 2022)

reasons for voting berbe:


funny
2. i don't buy they chose town ovver 2 funni 3ps
3. gut feeling


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## RedneckPhoenix (Sep 5, 2022)

4. they're too far away for me to cuddle w/


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## RedneckPhoenix (Sep 5, 2022)

zzzz


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## qenya (Sep 5, 2022)

*About 3 hours to EoD.

Elimination votes:*
Herbe - RedneckPhoenix (#34)
haneko - lolfoxes (#54)
Butterfree - haneko (#104)
RedneckPhoenix - M&F (#126)

*Conspiracy votes:*
Conspiracy - Herbe (#41), Jack (#43), Butterfree (#57), Zero Moment (#65), RedneckPhoenix (#66), haneko (#105)
No conspiracy - lolfoxes (#58)


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## Herbe (Sep 5, 2022)

sorry a Whole Fucking Thing consumed my last hour

anyway to steal the whole tier thing. i was agonizing over this and reshuffling tbh.,

trust
rnp
lolfoxes
jack
mf
---
bfree
(zm, haneko)
untrust


its hard cause like theres definitely less Actually Town folk because of faction shenaniganery in such a small game. and im kinda worried that my tierlist is just an Active Player list yknow. i really really don't love the bfree inactive situation but i also know that she might be less prone to being inactive if she was mafia? again this isnt based on me doing my homework but just... idk. i know life busy-ness isn't alignment indicative but i'd think that maybe if she had an ingroup that was relying on her she'd be puttin in  more posts. i don't want to like... idk treat inactivity as TI. and maybe its part of a strategic thing! who knows. i'd be willing to leave a butterfree vote for the sake of pressure for now. buuuuuuut I think that that "unclaimed role" might might might be haneko's real role in a reach-out attempt to other outgroup folks, idk if cults get private comms? maybe they do maybe they don't? so like maybe there would be worth in a haneko vote here for 1) the sake of possibly un-culting ourselves or 2) revealing more about bfree upon flip. because conversely i don't think we learn anything on a butterfree flip here honestly. but if haneko is 3p then we don't learn anything about bfree either... hm. (and would we even Learn Anything if haneko was W? cause bfree could always randomly be the other faction in that scenario.)

rnp i think is genuine Wherever it's coming from. i really do think he would scheme about choosing town just to pull one over on me like this. he wins wifom w me every time :( i appreciate the foxes solvitude and such and i like the cut of jack's gib and his contributionopinions. i think mf could easily pull a fast one, no issue there at all, i think that her Activity isn't AI cause she is Active and Smart and although i like her progression on me and the rnp scenario i do think that it would be the best strategic move anyway not to just park on me during the whole extension if she was W. so i would probably want something a little more concrete, past d1, to move her up in my trustery.

alright lets look at votery. tbh ZM said that he was waiting for haneko to come say anything and idk if he's been online in the past 12 hours since haneko Did In Fact Say Something but it really is just such little activity. but honestly i'm really worried about him getting the doublevote without having a good read on his potential trustwormthiness... considering the imminent doublevote i'd place him at a bit higher threat level than he normally would. i don't love this because again i don't think we Big Learn but maybe this just isn't a game where we're able to Big Learn from flips bc so much multiballage. anyway. i'm not opposed to a 5 way randomization so why not *ZM*vote for now?


----------



## Herbe (Sep 5, 2022)

2hrs30 to talk it out babey


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## JackPK (Sep 5, 2022)

Oof, 2.5 hours left.

Much as a four-way (refresh page before posting:) five-way rand would be _hilarious_, it also would be extremely silly and not useful. Word vomit on the wagons incoming:

Herbe - I agree with M&F #121 and other posts that Herbe has seemed basically towny, and I'm really not inclined to use wifommy "what would this person pick?" logic

haneko - head empty, discussion so far seems to be in circles about whether their play style is an indicator despite them not having said much outside of aforementioned discussion of their play style... too meta for me to think through very hard. plus, they said they've been sick and I, bleeding heart, don't want to vote out a person D1 when they've been low-activity due to sickness

Butterfree - would love to hear more from her! definitely prefer not to do an inactive yeet on D1

RNP - my thoughts are still essentially as in my #82 where if it were anyone else, I'd feel like he's acting openwolfy, but also I feel like he's inclined to act like this naturally in general so I can't tell if it's an indicator

ZM - confirmed based on stated mechanics (unless those mechanics are bastardy?) to not be the conspiracy role, but that still doesn't clear him from being anything else. more active than Butterfree but I still feel like he goes in the low-activity prefer-not-to-yeet-yet bucket?

by process of elimination and because I am somewhat persuaded by M&F #121's logic in how Herbe/RNP can help solve each other, I kinda feel like yeeting RNP? but I'm open to being talked out of it and into something else since D1 with no nightkill N0 is such a null situation

*RNP*


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## Zero Moment (Sep 5, 2022)

Herbe said:


> alright lets look at votery. tbh ZM said that he was waiting for haneko to come say anything and idk if he's been online in the past 12 hours since haneko Did In Fact Say Something but it really is just such little activity. but honestly i'm really worried about him getting the doublevote without having a good read on his potential trustwormthiness... considering the imminent doublevote i'd place him at a bit higher threat level than he normally would. i don't love this because again i don't think we Big Learn but maybe this just isn't a game where we're able to Big Learn from flips bc so much multiballage. anyway. i'm not opposed to a 5 way randomization so why not *ZM*vote for now?


I read, I contemplated, and I did not see a reason to jump on the Haneko bandwagon. imo the doublevote is inconsequential since everyone getting it means the doubles are cancelled out for everyone except the conspirator, who essentially gets a half vote. I guess Haneko is the least in danger since the lolhydra is voting 'wrong' today.


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## Herbe (Sep 5, 2022)

Zero Moment said:


> Herbe said:
> 
> 
> > alright lets look at votery. tbh ZM said that he was waiting for haneko to come say anything and idk if he's been online in the past 12 hours since haneko Did In Fact Say Something but it really is just such little activity. but honestly i'm really worried about him getting the doublevote without having a good read on his potential trustwormthiness... considering the imminent doublevote i'd place him at a bit higher threat level than he normally would. i don't love this because again i don't think we Big Learn but maybe this just isn't a game where we're able to Big Learn from flips bc so much multiballage. anyway. i'm not opposed to a 5 way randomization so why not *ZM*vote for now?
> ...





qenya said:


> If there is a conspiracy and the target of the conspiracy correctly identifies this, they will be granted 1 extra elimination vote during the next day phase.


The doubles aren't cancelled out unless there's no conspiracy. So since there is a conspiracy only you get the doublevote


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## RedneckPhoenix (Sep 5, 2022)

JackPK said:


> *RNP*


imagine trying to surprisevote a player confirmed to be sleeping


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## RedneckPhoenix (Sep 5, 2022)

rude as hell


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## JackPK (Sep 5, 2022)

wasn't trying to surprise vote! this is just the time that I happened to be available IRL to sit down and work through my POE


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## RedneckPhoenix (Sep 5, 2022)

guessing you want me to roleclaim then.

i'm Tao Hua, aka that asshole who sends children out to the dangerous wilds to get materials just bc his granddaughter married someone he didn't like

for my role i send fuckers out to get whatever random junk i feel like in the moment and it has a 50/50 shot of either jailing them (They can't do their action or be targetted cuz they're busy climbing a mountain to get some salt) or killing them (get mauled by a wild pokemon)


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## RedneckPhoenix (Sep 5, 2022)

it might not be 50/50 actually it just said "a chance to result in their unfortunate removal" but whatever


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## Herbe (Sep 5, 2022)

that doesnt read super duper town-aligney to me tbh but would love if some other folk with rolesperience would weigh in before the next hour and a half passes


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## Herbe (Sep 5, 2022)

are you gonna killjail me tonight if i dont get voted :(


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## RedneckPhoenix (Sep 5, 2022)

well yes but tao hua is a villager. a very prominent one due to his stupid fucking dumb shit storyline you have to do just to buy fucking ultra balls like come the fuck on dude i'm trying to save the damn settlement here yo could you just talk to your grandson-in-law for three seconds so the damn chosen one can close the skyhole that would be fucking great thanks dick


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## Zero Moment (Sep 5, 2022)

Herbe said:


> The doubles aren't cancelled out unless there's no conspiracy. So since there is a conspiracy only you get the doublevote


_rereads the conspiracy message_
oh. I thought it was everyone who gets it right gets doubled vote.


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## Herbe (Sep 5, 2022)

we have an hour left for funky fresh beats where is mf my beloved.


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## lolfoxes (Sep 5, 2022)

*M&F*

going w/ gut here, zori approved

don't really see why rnp got votes? feels like it was just people trying to tie him/herbe into a conflict which feels kinda sus to me

~w


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## Herbe (Sep 5, 2022)

foxes you ninja'd me right as i was gonna do a Thing

I'm trusting rnp on the this-dude-is-definitely-a-villager claim for his role cause a)nobody has contradicted this yet in terms of villager flavor and b)it totally seems like something he would be inclined to pick as a role. Even if he plans on jailkilling me tomorrow i mean like. Yknow. I hope i don't die but I really do completely believe he is town at this point. So I don't wanna let him die for sure so i will probably move my vote to a place where it can rand out at least to give him a shot.

Considering the non-me votes placed right now look to be Bfree and now MF.... hm. I think MF as an option gives us loads of data as far as reads go and I was low-trust of her in the first place honestly. A bfree vote would not tell us anything tbh tbh tbh and im in the gutzone about *mf*; in any case i think that randing between her and RNP has less of a chance of killing town then just leaving RNP to dry.


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## Herbe (Sep 5, 2022)

hope she does show up to talk about it though before the next 25 minutes pass.


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## Herbe (Sep 5, 2022)

besides i really do think that somehow inactivebfree is slightly more believable as town-indicative than mafindicative, i just dont think thats the Strategy she would pick. could be benign. meanwhile mf is gonna fulleffort everything especially mafiaruns because she is awesome.


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## qenya (Sep 5, 2022)

EoD in about 20 minutes.

*Elimination votes:*
Herbe - RedneckPhoenix (#34)
Butterfree - haneko (#104)
RedneckPhoenix - M&F (#126), JackPK (#138)
M&F - lolfoxes (#151), Herbe (#152)

*Conspiracy votes:*
Conspiracy - Herbe (#41), Jack (#43), Butterfree (#57), Zero Moment (#65), RedneckPhoenix (#66), haneko (#105)
No conspiracy - lolfoxes (#58)


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## lolfoxes (Sep 5, 2022)

yeah
i dont really want to vote haneko today anymore
sleeby.

-nya


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## RedneckPhoenix (Sep 5, 2022)

ugh... i still think herbe is evil and i really think this is a misstep, but fuuuuuuuuuuck i'll vote *m&f *for selfpres i guess. hell ass shit fuck


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## RedneckPhoenix (Sep 5, 2022)

back to the fucking Thing logic of "i know i'm not bad, better to ice an unknown"


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## RedneckPhoenix (Sep 5, 2022)

except they used fire in that movie.


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## Herbe (Sep 5, 2022)

i do regret not hearing mf's dying thoughts and blindsiding her with this though cause in any case it would be wonderful to look back on and analyze post flip :/// this isnt idealwagon but rnp is conftown to me at this point so like i said better than the alternative


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## qenya (Sep 5, 2022)

*The day has ended. Please let me know asap if this votecount is inaccurate.

Elimination votes:*
Butterfree - haneko (#104)
RedneckPhoenix - M&F (#126), JackPK (#138)
M&F - lolfoxes (#151), Herbe (#152), RedneckPhoenix (#157)

*Conspiracy votes:*
Conspiracy - Herbe (#41), Jack (#43), Butterfree (#57), Zero Moment (#65), RedneckPhoenix (#66), haneko (#105)
No conspiracy - lolfoxes (#58)


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## M&F (Sep 5, 2022)

oh goddammit I just barely missed EoD

... as well as something significant clearly. oh well; discussion is over regardless, so, my peace on anything significant is hold


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## qenya (Sep 5, 2022)

*Night 1*





Though there is as yet no evidence that anyone has been harmed, the mysterious note weighs heavily on the townsfolk's minds. Convinced there is some threat to the village, they argue amongst themselves about what's to be done, the debate becoming more rancorous as the day draws on. Eventually they reason that even if they can't find anything directly suspicious about any among their number, executing someone arbitrary might at least reveal something interesting about where everyone else's loyalties lie.

The decision made, the village's skilled clothier Anthe is seized by both wrists and dragged out from their midst to a gallows, hastily whittled from solid oak by several Bidoof under the watchful eye of the Construction Corps. She begs for mercy, and when that bears no fruit, falls silent, her horror written on her face.

After the deed is done, her dwelling is searched for clues. To nobody's very great surprise, nothing out of the ordinary is found. The villagers shuffle off to their own homes, not meeting each other's gazes. Everyone sleeps poorly that night, and not just because of the unnatural thunderstorm that seems to blow in out of clear skies.

*M&F is dead. She was a Villager.

Zero Moment correctly identified the conspiracy against him. His vote will count twice in the next Day phase.

Night 1 has begun. Please send in your night actions. It will end on 2022-09-07 at 23:00 UTC.*



Spoiler: Pings / Playerlist



M&F
@JackPK
@lolfoxes (@Wisper & @Zori)
@Zero Moment
@RedneckPhoenix
@Herbe
@haneko
@Butterfree
(@Eifie)


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## qenya (Sep 7, 2022)

*Day 1*





A bright summer's morning dawns, a faint pleasant breeze blowing gently down Floaro Main Street. Against all odds, the world is much the same as the people of Hisui left it the day before. In fact... it's _exactly_ the same. It takes a little while for everyone to realise, and of course nobody can explain it, but it's undeniable: the whole village has been restored to its condition at the start of the previous day. Even the hastily constructed gallows of yesterday is nowhere to be seen, although the constant shameful reminder still looms large in the villagers' minds. A quick furtive check reveals that Anthe is still dead, but nobody else appears to be missing.

The handwritten notice on the wall of the living quarters is still there, too. Despite its rough treatment the day before as everyone passed it around, poring over it for hidden clues, it's once again in perfect, unspoiled condition.


Spoiler: Anonymous Role PM Fragment



While you are alive, at the beginning of each day phase, a random living player will be selected, and all other living players will be privately informed that they are conspiring against that player. If you are selected, instead only you will be informed that there is no conspiracy that day.

During the day, all living players may vote on whether or not they believe there is a conspiracy, in addition to the ordinary elimination poll. If there is a conspiracy and the target of the conspiracy correctly identifies this, they will be granted 1 extra elimination vote during the next day phase. If there is not a conspiracy and a majority of living players correctly identify this, then each player who guessed correctly will be granted 1 extra elimination vote during the next day phase. You do not have a conspiracy vote (although you may pretend that you do and it will be included in vote totals).

If nobody gains an extra vote as a result of this minigame, you may target a player during the following night. That player dies.

This role PM, excluding your alignment and identity, will be published to the thread at the beginning of each day you are alive to clarify these mechanics.



*Nobody has died.

Day 1 has begun. 48 hours for discussion. Voting will end on 2022-09-09 (Friday) at 23:00 UTC.*



Spoiler: Pings / Playerlist



M&F
@JackPK
@lolfoxes (@Wisper & @Zori)
@Zero Moment
@RedneckPhoenix
@Herbe
@haneko
@Butterfree
(@Eifie)


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## JackPK (Sep 7, 2022)

JackPK said:


> good news everyone (except qenya's images)


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## JackPK (Sep 7, 2022)

well, three things

1) day 1 again? huh? judging by the blurb this seems intentional rather than an error (can you confirm, kate?) so I guess someone's role has something to do with repeating a day or stopping days from incrementing or something? which would be pretty pointless unless one or more folks had roles with stipulations that only work on certain days, so I guess somebody(bodies) have that?

2) no death is good but surprising considering the number of factions there apparently are... maybe this is a sign that hopefully some of the factions didn't get picked by anyone so we're really hopefully dealing with just town vs. one faction (and maybe 3rd parties)?

3) mmmm I didn't say anything yesterday as people piled onto M&F because I didn't have a strong enough gut feeling to go out on a limb and defend her, but I do think that flip very much makes lolfoxes look bad considering they a) started the wagon out of nowhere and b) cited only "gut" and nothing else

oh. four things

*there is a conspiracy* against RNP


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## Butterfree (Sep 7, 2022)

Fascinating, wondering if whatever is causing the day to repeat is also why we had no death? Like, no actions actually took place in the night...?

Apologies for not being around yesterDay, I had a bad headache for the first half of the day that left me writing up cursory thoughts like "I will look at all this properly later" and then by the time I'd recovered had thoroughly forgotten this game was a thing until like an hour after EoD

I need to reread what happened yesterday better, off what I caught up on when I remembered the game I wasn't a fan of haneko pushing me on the basis of me somehow being likelier to be non-town because I'd discarded a third party(??) and then admitting later that this logic applies equally to everyone else but brushing it off in a very weird way that didn't really acknowledge that this invalidated the supposed reasoning for her vote? Like, if someone points out your vote is based on false premises you don't just go "yeah, I know" and move on, you'd at least go "Right, yeah, but Butterfree's been weirdly inactive, I'm sticking with my vote" or whatever? I don't even know if it's an antitown kind of weirdness but it was definitely weird.

But yeah, I do need to read the vote progression again.

*There is a conspiracy*


----------



## lolfoxes (Sep 8, 2022)

*there is no conspiracy*

y'all should probably reread the conspiracy post

~w


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## lolfoxes (Sep 8, 2022)

lolfoxes said:


> *there is no conspiracy*
> 
> y'all should probably reread the conspiracy post
> 
> ~w


ignore me i reread it

~w


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## lolfoxes (Sep 8, 2022)

JackPK said:


> 3) mmmm I didn't say anything yesterday as people piled onto M&F because I didn't have a strong enough gut feeling to go out on a limb and defend her, but I do think that flip very much makes lolfoxes look bad considering they a) started the wagon out of nowhere and b) cited only "gut" and nothing else


if you want something more substantial than gut this sets off my radar as a sort of looking for someone to blame, maybe cause of the excuse provided

~w


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## Herbe (Sep 8, 2022)

Butterfree said:


> Fascinating, wondering if whatever is causing the day to repeat is also why we had no death? Like, no actions actually took place in the night...?


i wouldn't have thought of this!! this is a good point

however Also, I roleblocked haneko last night. So after roleblockage and seeing that there's no deaths I feel comfy voting *haneko* for now. the thing you said could potentially be at play but it could also just be different things going on and since i have no reason to believe the roleblock didn't go through, i might have stopped the kill? also i guess rnp didn't jailkill me like i thought he would


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## Herbe (Sep 8, 2022)

*yes conspirnp*


----------



## RedneckPhoenix (Sep 8, 2022)

*butterfree*


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## RedneckPhoenix (Sep 8, 2022)

so funny story i totally made up the jailkill thing and i'm actually a cop and butterfree flipped red


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## RedneckPhoenix (Sep 8, 2022)

(they could be diamond, pearl, or 3p with said redcheck, but the check was Red)


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## Herbe (Sep 8, 2022)

RedneckPhoenix said:


> so funny story i totally made up the jailkill thing and i'm actually a cop and butterfree flipped red


weirdo behavior


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## JackPK (Sep 8, 2022)

a redcheck is always valuable so I'll vote *Butterfree* based on giving the benefit of the doubt that RNP is not lying, but I do want to hear two things -- 1) Butterfree, what's your response to this? and 2) RNP, if you're cop why would you fakeclaim something like jailkill that scum would presumably think is dangerous and want to quickly eliminate? wouldn't that have drawn unnecessary risk?



lolfoxes said:


> JackPK said:
> 
> 
> > 3) mmmm I didn't say anything yesterday as people piled onto M&F because I didn't have a strong enough gut feeling to go out on a limb and defend her, but I do think that flip very much makes lolfoxes look bad considering they a) started the wagon out of nowhere and b) cited only "gut" and nothing else
> ...


I mean, we're trying to find scum, we gotta throw every spaghetti at the wall to see what sticks and what doesn't. not really interested in pursuing this now that we have a lead with a way more substantial chance of finding scum. but yeah, I'm just curious about the timing and the reasoning considering that from my perspective, M&F was vaguely seeming solvier than most others in the thread. did your gut just make you feel like she was trying falsely to look solvey to lead us in the wrong direction or something...? anyway, again, I'm now more interested in the Butterfree/RNP lead, so no need for us to go in-depth into this toDay


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## RedneckPhoenix (Sep 8, 2022)

my reasoning as always is circuitous

see if you're scum and you see rnp with a role that has a chance to kill someone, you know he's prolly gonna use it every night and rack up a body count, mostly on the town side. yoh might even roleblock the guy if you're scared of him targetting your team, which would reveal to rnp the presence of a scum roleblocker

if you're town, you just steer clear of whatever the fuck rnp is doing and treat him more like an obstacle than a player in the game


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## RedneckPhoenix (Sep 8, 2022)

"rnp isn't the likelihood of multiple roleblockers in a 7 player game extremely slim" consider this: 21 rolecards


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## Zero Moment (Sep 8, 2022)

Oho! _Now_ the game is afoot. 

I'll be looking forward to the discourse when I wake up in the morning.


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## RedneckPhoenix (Sep 8, 2022)

*there is a conspiracy *etc etc


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## haneko (Sep 8, 2022)

*there is a conspiracy*

M&F's flip makes me feel rather suspicious of *lolfoxes*, so I'm going to put my vote on them for now.

@Butterfree
My vote against you was purely for self-preservation. I wanted it to at least rand if ithe situation didn't move past 1 vote me for that day.



Herbe said:


> however Also, I roleblocked haneko last night. So after roleblockage and seeing that there's no deaths I feel comfy voting *haneko* for now


my role is cogita & abra, all i can do is _protect_ myself from kills (with a decreasing chance each time i use it - Detect)


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## haneko (Sep 8, 2022)

i am not sure what the day repeat means, especially as killed people remain dead... 

i wonder what the cult is doing rn


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## Herbe (Sep 8, 2022)

i guessssss *butterfree* is the better option to see if rnp is truthing or not :/


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## lolfoxes (Sep 8, 2022)

i think that bfee kill is good
they were prob my first kill personally yesterday because i think a lot of ppl were worse

-nya


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## Zero Moment (Sep 8, 2022)

haneko said:


> my role is cogita & abra, all i can do is _protect_ myself from kills (with a decreasing chance each time i use it - Detect)


Do you get any notification that you were successful in the attempt?

*Butterfree* too, though I want to hear her defense before she bites it.


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## lolfoxes (Sep 8, 2022)

haneko said:


> my role is cogita & abra, all i can do is _protect_ myself from kills (with a decreasing chance each time i use it - Detect)


we discarded an abra card though? that seems kinda hmmm

~w


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## lolfoxes (Sep 8, 2022)

@haneko 
did you not that there was a red claimed on butterfree?

~w


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## lolfoxes (Sep 8, 2022)

lolfoxes said:


> @haneko
> did you not see that there was a red claimed on butterfree?
> 
> ~w


ebwop lol

~w


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## Herbe (Sep 8, 2022)

lolfoxes said:


> haneko said:
> 
> 
> > my role is cogita & abra, all i can do is _protect_ myself from kills (with a decreasing chance each time i use it - Detect)
> ...


ahhh this plus roleblock leads me to think that haneko is a good tomorrow target


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## Butterfree (Sep 9, 2022)

RedneckPhoenix said:


> so funny story i totally made up the jailkill thing and i'm actually a cop and butterfree flipped red


?? what on earth

Can't tell if this is some kind of super bizarre scum gambit, or if innocent cop RNP really did just for some reason make a very elaborate fake roleclaim on the basis of elaborate flimsy reasoning that the mafia wouldn't shoot him _and_ then get redirected or confused somehow...? Or, hrmm. Actually if this game does have multiple third parties I wouldn't be surprised if there's an alien in here? Which would explain making a baity fakeclaim and then, after no death, a bold attention-grabby accusation that'll lead people to kill him after my flip? Have aliens been a thing in recent TCoDf meta? Hrmmmmm.

All in all, proobably not risking a vote for RNP right now. (Guess I will officially go *haneko* for now, I agree the claim sounds suspect in addition to the more circumstantial weirdness of how yesterday's vote played out. Not super happy with today's explanation of it either.)

For what it's worth I'm Rye and Lucario, town vigilante, and did not target anyone last night. Still need to do that reread but it's 1AM and I need to draw and go to sleep.


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## lolfoxes (Sep 9, 2022)

Butterfree said:


> or if innocent cop RNP really did just for some reason make a very elaborate fake roleclaim on the basis of elaborate flimsy reasoning that the mafia wouldn't shoot him _and_ then get redirected or confused somehow...?


to be FAIR thats like, well within the range of things that i would Expect RNP To Do:tm:
-nya


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## Butterfree (Sep 9, 2022)

Specifically, not only is Abra a duplicate Pokémon, but the whole Detect thing just sounds kind of fishy to me as a power in mafia? Chance-based self-healing? If there's a villager who can do that, doesn't it leave the mafia majorly relying on RNG for their ability to win at all?


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## Butterfree (Sep 9, 2022)

qenya said:


> You win when all living players are *Pearl Clan*, or when nothing can prevent this from happening.


is apparently the mafia win condition. If there's a villager who always has a chance of healing themselves that merely decreases, doesn't that mean the situation where "nothing can prevent this from happening" simply cannot happen until they eliminate that specific player, which could take several shots if they're unlucky?


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## lolfoxes (Sep 9, 2022)

Butterfree said:


> qenya said:
> 
> 
> > You win when all living players are *Pearl Clan*, or when nothing can prevent this from happening.
> ...


well not really because at that point that player just gets yeeted during the day

~w


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## RedneckPhoenix (Sep 9, 2022)

i'm wagering, since haneko got blocked and bfree is scum, there's some kind of delayed kill going on around here like a poisoner or an arsonist. probably an arsonist, poisoners are boring


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## Zero Moment (Sep 9, 2022)

def something sus going on here


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## RedneckPhoenix (Sep 9, 2022)

also yeah haneko is sus but, like. redcheck goes first.


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## Zero Moment (Sep 9, 2022)

sus


----------



## qenya (Sep 9, 2022)

*About 12 and a half hours to EoD.

Elimination votes:*
Butterfree - RedneckPhoenix (#173), JackPK (#177), Herbe (#184), Zero Moment (#186)
lolfoxes - haneko (#182)
haneko - Butterfree (#191)

*Conspiracy votes:*
Conspiracy - JackPK (#166), Butterfree (#167), Herbe (#172), RedneckPhoenix (#181), haneko (#182)
No conspiracy - lolfoxes (#168)


----------



## lolfoxes (Sep 9, 2022)

good morning chat

busy most of the day, around if there's anything urgent?

~w


----------



## haneko (Sep 9, 2022)

lolfoxes said:


> haneko said:
> 
> 
> > my role is cogita & abra, all i can do is _protect_ myself from kills (with a decreasing chance each time i use it - Detect)
> ...


tbf cogita doesn't have her own Pokémon in the game, but she collabs with is cyllene's Abra so it must have stuck out to qenya. not really that weird



Butterfree said:


> If there's a villager who always has a chance of healing themselves that merely decreases, doesn't that mean the situation where "nothing can prevent this from happening" simply cannot happen until they eliminate that specific player, which could take several shots if they're unlucky?


in a game where there are 3p factions as well as multiple scum factions - all of which may have ability to kill - this seems like it would balance the game. imo 

posting now BC I am on mobile and don't want to lose what I've written. I will write more asap


----------



## haneko (Sep 9, 2022)

lolfoxes said:


> i think that bfee kill is good
> they were prob my first kill personally yesterday because i think a lot of ppl were worse
> 
> -nya


ok I've changed my mind. I also think that *Butterfree* kill is good BC then we can see if rnp really is a cop like he claims. if bfree flips town... then at least we know he is lying and can Yeet

but your second sentence here doesn't really make sense. if other people were worse why wouldnt you vote for them instead of bfree???



lolfoxes said:


> @haneko
> did you not that there was a red claimed on butterfree?
> 
> ~w


no, I skimmed the thread really quickly when making my earlier post and must have missed it.

you are sus.


----------



## Herbe (Sep 9, 2022)

[gone fishing]
[not that much is happening right at eod anyway today]


----------



## Herbe (Sep 9, 2022)

ah shit hadn’t refreshed till my post made stuff happen. still fishing though no promises i’m reading


----------



## lolfoxes (Sep 9, 2022)

haneko said:


> tbf cogita doesn't have her own Pokémon in the game, but she collabs with is cyllene's Abra so it must have stuck out to qenya. not really that weird


why did you assume that it was "oh not really that weird" instead of us lying?

~w


----------



## JackPK (Sep 9, 2022)

lolfoxes said:


> haneko said:
> 
> 
> > tbf cogita doesn't have her own Pokémon in the game, but she collabs with is cyllene's Abra so it must have stuck out to qenya. not really that weird
> ...


wait, in this hypothetical in which haneko is telling the truth about her pokemon, how could _you_ have been lying? your abra rolecard was posted publicly by qenya, not by you


----------



## JackPK (Sep 9, 2022)

("your discarded abra rolecard", I should clarify for anyone following along who may have gotten confused)


----------



## qenya (Sep 9, 2022)

apparently there was not anything urgent.

*The day has ended. Please let me know asap if there are errors in this votecount

Elimination votes:*
Butterfree - RedneckPhoenix (#173), JackPK (#177), Herbe (#184), Zero Moment (#186), haneko (#203)
haneko - Butterfree (#191)

*Conspiracy votes:*
Conspiracy - JackPK (#166), Butterfree (#167), Herbe (#172), RedneckPhoenix (#181), haneko (#182)
No conspiracy - lolfoxes (#168)


----------



## qenya (Sep 9, 2022)

*Night 1*





The day feels shorter than it was the first time around, perhaps because of the subdued atmosphere. Around lunchtime, one of the villagers pipes up, insisting he has strong evidence that a young girl named Sabi is secretly working against the village, and that she must be disposed of urgently as a matter of security. This seems like a fine idea. After all, if it turns out to have been a mistake, they can always murder him instead - a win-win situation.

Unlike Anthe, Sabi doesn't bother to put up much of a fight. She makes a half-hearted attempt at defending herself but then concedes her loss, rolling her eyes as if she'd rather just get it over with. The townsfolk drag the kid to Prelude Beach and throw her into the sea, trusting the waves to keep her from causing more harm to the village.

As soon as she touches the water, she explodes in a huge gout of flame and heat, evidently covered with some highly toxic or flammable substance. It's not clear what her stratagem was, but undoubtedly she must have been a representative of a nefarious criminal organisation, bent on killing the villagers as they slept!

Secure in the knowledge that they were correct and morally justified in their paedicide, the townsfolk turn in for the night. That unnatural thunderstorm seems to be blowing in again... perhaps it heralds some new age of prosperity for the village.

*Butterfree is dead. She was Diamond Clan.

RedneckPhoenix correctly identified the conspiracy against him. His vote will count twice in the next Day phase.

Night 1 has begun. Please send in your night actions. It will end on 2022-09-11 (Sunday) at 23:00 UTC.*



Spoiler: Pings / Playerlist



M&F
@JackPK
@lolfoxes (@Wisper & @Zori)
@Zero Moment
@RedneckPhoenix
@Herbe
@haneko
Butterfree
(@Eifie)


----------



## qenya (Sep 11, 2022)

*Day 1*





A bright summer's morning dawns, a faint pleasant breeze blowing gently down Floaro Main Street. Against all odds, the world is much the same as the people of Hisui left it the day before. This is getting a little ridiculous; how long will the village be caught in this weird time loop? Many of the townsfolk mutter darkly, insisting that they should be doing their best to find the person responsible.

Unlike the previous iteration of the day, however, all is not well with the remaining villagers. It doesn't take long for someone to notice all the bloody footprints and smears leading towards the village gates, and follow them to the ghastly scene.

The corpse nailed above the entrance is just about recognisable as Sanqua, the captain of the Construction Corps. Her beautiful silver-blue hair, the pride of the village's hairdresser, is still mostly attached to her scalp, but the skin on her face has been ripped to shreds and her ribcage and abdomen have been torn open. Entrails and organs spill out and dangle over the ground below. Her three mischievous Bidoof, who the townsfolk have warmed to and grown to love since they turned up in the village, are arranged neatly in a row to the side, their limbs twisted and their skins flayed.

At the back of the gathering crowd, several people turn aside to retch. Somebody incredibly sick and twisted must have orchestrated this.

It doesn't take long to figure out who is responsible. The gory trail leads in the opposite direction, too, to a house on the outskirts of the village. The door is locked, but the guards beat it in with only a few blows. It collapses easily, the hinges breaking from the frame in a shower of splinters.

Inside they find Irida, the leader of the Pearl Clan. Sketches of human anatomy and deranged scrawlings about blood and death lie all around, making it clear that she played a major part in Sanqua's death - although someone else must have carried out the deed itself, since her hands and clothes are pristine, unmarked by the ichor spread around the village. But whatever crimes she may be guilty of, it seems she has already paid for them: she lies on her futon, unmoving and unbreathing, staring sightlessly at the rafters, a greenish foam spilling from her lips.

The note warning of mysterious conspiracies is back in its position on the walls of the sleeping quarters, of course, but nobody spares it much of a glance. There are more important things to worry about. And anyway, they all know what it says by now.


Spoiler: Anonymous Role PM Fragment



While you are alive, at the beginning of each day phase, a random living player will be selected, and all other living players will be privately informed that they are conspiring against that player. If you are selected, instead only you will be informed that there is no conspiracy that day.

During the day, all living players may vote on whether or not they believe there is a conspiracy, in addition to the ordinary elimination poll. If there is a conspiracy and the target of the conspiracy correctly identifies this, they will be granted 1 extra elimination vote during the next day phase. If there is not a conspiracy and a majority of living players correctly identify this, then each player who guessed correctly will be granted 1 extra elimination vote during the next day phase. You do not have a conspiracy vote (although you may pretend that you do and it will be included in vote totals).

If nobody gains an extra vote as a result of this minigame, you may target a player during the following night. That player dies.

This role PM, excluding your alignment and identity, will be published to the thread at the beginning of each day you are alive to clarify these mechanics.



*Zero Moment has died. He was a Villager.
haneko has died. She was Pearl Clan.

Day 1 has begun. 48 hours for discussion. Voting will end on 2022-09-13 (Tuesday) at 23:00 UTC.*



Spoiler: Pings / Playerlist



M&F
@JackPK
@lolfoxes (@Wisper & @Zori)
Zero Moment
@RedneckPhoenix
@Herbe
haneko
Butterfree
(@Eifie)


----------



## lolfoxes (Sep 11, 2022)

same as it ever was

~w


----------



## lolfoxes (Sep 11, 2022)

right so does anyone wanna claim the conspiracy role?

~w


----------



## lolfoxes (Sep 11, 2022)

also does anyone wanna claim the haneko kill

that also feels kinda prudent

~w


----------



## lolfoxes (Sep 11, 2022)

also *there is a conspiracy* against rnp 

have thoughts, am keeping Quiet until more people post

~w


----------



## Herbe (Sep 11, 2022)

Eh..... huh. Final four eh? The last nights flavor makes me think there's definitely an arsonist in the mix. Also, I guess there has to be one pearl clan fella left too, based on flavor. Maybe thats the same role all rolled into one or maybe its two seperate fellas out of the 4 we got.


----------



## JackPK (Sep 12, 2022)

qenya said:


> Inside they find Irida, the leader of the Pearl Clan. Sketches of human anatomy and deranged scrawlings about blood and death lie all around, making it clear that she played a major part in Sanqua's death - although someone else must have carried out the deed itself, since her hands and clothes are pristine, unmarked by the ichor spread around the village.


So this basically means there's another Pearl Clan running around for sure, right? There's no way I'm misinterpreting this is there


----------



## JackPK (Sep 12, 2022)

haneko/Irida's death flavor also reads like poisoner to me? If we want to speculate on the flavor, that is


----------



## Herbe (Sep 12, 2022)

JackPK said:


> haneko/Irida's death flavor also reads like poisoner to me? If we want to speculate on the flavor, that is


Yeah, i think flavor is probably pretty trustworthy here


----------



## JackPK (Sep 12, 2022)

also *there is a conspiracy*


----------



## Herbe (Sep 12, 2022)

we just keep on *conspiring(yes)* against rnp don't we


----------



## lolfoxes (Sep 12, 2022)

i wanna flavor solve but the flavor makes my brain not happy to read sorry

~w


----------



## lolfoxes (Sep 12, 2022)

today is massclaim day by the way

@JackPK you first

~w


----------



## RedneckPhoenix (Sep 12, 2022)

greencheck on- a fucking corpse i guess


----------



## RedneckPhoenix (Sep 12, 2022)

*conspiracy.*


----------



## RedneckPhoenix (Sep 12, 2022)

herbe who did you roleblock.


----------



## Herbe (Sep 12, 2022)

foxes


----------



## Herbe (Sep 12, 2022)

figured they could probably be good enough (especially as a team) to be participatey in a way that doesn't run counter to scum interests and wanted to see what would happen. they havent claimed a role that i would be averse to blocking anyway


----------



## lolfoxes (Sep 12, 2022)

Fair Enough

useful one anyway

it's probably too much to hope that ZM was a vig who killed haneko and theres only one non-town alive rn right

~w


----------



## Herbe (Sep 12, 2022)

considering the poison hints in flavor probably yeah


----------



## Herbe (Sep 12, 2022)

rnp why did you sus me so hard and then never officially investigate me ever


----------



## Herbe (Sep 12, 2022)

lolfoxes said:


> useful one anyway


what did you mean by this


also i'm kinda sitting tinfoiling *rnp* for the lie then revision thing and such. i'm thinking maybe he has a role that could check out opposite aligned mafia but not necessarily meaning that he's town aligned - like maybe a byproduct of a certain targeting role. the whole greencheck on the corpse thing is adding to that suspicion for me


----------



## Herbe (Sep 12, 2022)

something something arsonist in the mix maybe it's a funky little odd role mechanic. butterfree was sooooo doused


----------



## lolfoxes (Sep 12, 2022)

Herbe said:


> what did you mean by this


mean it's a good block because it clears us from having done either kill last night ergo we are town send tweet

~w


----------



## Herbe (Sep 12, 2022)

lolfoxes said:


> Herbe said:
> 
> 
> > what did you mean by this
> ...


fuck yeah


----------



## Herbe (Sep 12, 2022)

well. "either kill" i still think there's poisoning afoot what with that green in the mouth there


----------



## Herbe (Sep 12, 2022)

but i don't think pearl clan would have targeted pearl clan so you're at least not that one


----------



## JackPK (Sep 12, 2022)

lolfoxes said:


> today is massclaim day by the way
> 
> @JackPK you first
> 
> ~w


"The player character" (with both the male and female PC options split-screened in the image in my role PM, nice touch) which I took in hopes it would have something powerful and important because the player character is always the most powerful and important character in a story amirite?

Unfortunately the power I got is that as long as I'm alive, the day counter doesn't increment, because my falling from the sky has caused wonky timespace distortions. It sucks! It honestly sucks to not have an active power, not to mention also to have no idea what my passive power helps or hurts with


----------



## Herbe (Sep 12, 2022)

(oh uh also considering the pearl clan goon was the one that took zm out. so they had their hands full)


----------



## lolfoxes (Sep 12, 2022)

Herbe said:


> but i don't think pearl clan would have targeted pearl clan so you're at least not that one


well the haneko stuff clears us of that anyway

day repeating honestly makes me think there's a diamond clan alive? which is Worrying

~w


----------



## JackPK (Sep 12, 2022)

oh whoa y'all posted a bunch while I was busy with work before I could get back to the thread


----------



## lolfoxes (Sep 12, 2022)

nvm lmao

~w


----------



## JackPK (Sep 12, 2022)

so that's me, rnp has claimed cop, herbe has claimed roleblocker, and I think that just leaves you lolfoxes?


----------



## JackPK (Sep 12, 2022)

so either you're the conspiracy generator or someone is lying, right?


----------



## lolfoxes (Sep 12, 2022)

JackPK said:


> so either you're the conspiracy generator or someone is lying, right?


i wouldn't ask about the conspiracy so much if i was causing it

we have eifie in our role pm

that's our role

~w


----------



## Herbe (Sep 12, 2022)

you're eifing?????


----------



## Herbe (Sep 12, 2022)

did you spectators choice somehow


----------



## JackPK (Sep 12, 2022)

plot twist lolfoxes is secretly being piloted by eifie instead of wisper and zori???


----------



## lolfoxes (Sep 12, 2022)

Herbe said:


> you're eifing?????


you know it!



Herbe said:


> did you spectators choice somehow


nope we're just town with an extra braincell

~w


----------



## JackPK (Sep 12, 2022)

so you're like neighbors but with somebody from out-of-game instead of another player in-game?


----------



## lolfoxes (Sep 12, 2022)

JackPK said:


> so you're like neighbors but with somebody from out-of-game instead of another player in-game?


aye

~w


----------



## lolfoxes (Sep 12, 2022)

@RedneckPhoenix @Herbe can you two claim flavor btw

ours is anabel

i may have made our choice exclusively on flavor I May Be A Little Bit Lesbian

~w


----------



## Herbe (Sep 12, 2022)

ehrmmmmmmm... and there are No Other Effects to this? cause like. the discarded spec choice said something about alignment fuckery,,,, wondering if there's a part two to that there


----------



## Herbe (Sep 12, 2022)

lolfoxes said:


> @RedneckPhoenix @Herbe can you two claim flavor btw





Herbe said:


> i picked beauregard and beaugene instead of ginter and rotom


----------



## Herbe (Sep 12, 2022)

whats your pokemon foxes


----------



## lolfoxes (Sep 12, 2022)

Herbe said:


> whats your pokemon foxes


snorlax but i'm pretending it's wooloo

~w


----------



## lolfoxes (Sep 12, 2022)

Herbe said:


> ehrmmmmmmm... and there are No Other Effects to this? cause like. the discarded spec choice said something about alignment fuckery,,,, wondering if there's a part two to that there


and no its specifically an extra player, no communication with the actual specs

(afaik mewtini is a spec and is not included, while eifie is there)
(actually you can see shes been getting pinged every daystart)


----------



## Herbe (Sep 12, 2022)

mrrrp.


----------



## lolfoxes (Sep 12, 2022)

i mean

if it makes you feel more relieved, we are Very Obviously not pearl from like, all of yesterday

and if jack is the one causing time shenanigans and not a diamond clan member we should be good then?

~w


----------



## Herbe (Sep 12, 2022)

i am contented for now


----------



## lolfoxes (Sep 12, 2022)

well that's unfortunate because i'm incredibly bored and want to play more mafia

~w


----------



## Herbe (Sep 12, 2022)

also i think rnp already flavor claimed as that one guy


----------



## Herbe (Sep 12, 2022)

;-;


----------



## RedneckPhoenix (Sep 12, 2022)

tao hua yeah


----------



## lolfoxes (Sep 12, 2022)

okay fair enough

how does the flavor work out on either case im curious


----------



## Herbe (Sep 12, 2022)

idk. i got this silcoon that's actually a cascoon or something


----------



## RedneckPhoenix (Sep 12, 2022)

i don't have a pokemon because i don't have a pokemon because i don't have a pokem

if you played the game you will know tao hua is very obsessed with his granddaughter and is constantly looking for reasons why her new husband is evil spawn of satan or whatever

stretch that out, other people who may do dear old granddaughter harm, paranoidly check their houses and shit for any signs of ne'er-do-well-ing


----------



## RedneckPhoenix (Sep 12, 2022)

Herbe said:


> rnp why did you sus me so hard and then never officially investigate me ever


eh


----------



## Herbe (Sep 12, 2022)

basically i show up and vent to people about how stupid it is that the prof doesn't see that it's a silcoon and me talking about it for so damn long and trying to get validation and emotional support about it takes the whole night. trying to convince people such and such


----------



## Herbe (Sep 12, 2022)

RedneckPhoenix said:


> i don't have a pokemon because i don't have a pokemon because i don't have a pokem


you don't happen to have a big bulky guy with claws that could have ripped someones flesh open huh?


----------



## Herbe (Sep 12, 2022)

i haven't played pla so eh hrm


----------



## RedneckPhoenix (Sep 12, 2022)

tao hua doesn't have a pokemon he too busy protecting granddaughter and not updating the shop inventory


----------



## Herbe (Sep 12, 2022)

mrrrrrrrrrp


----------



## RedneckPhoenix (Sep 12, 2022)

RedneckPhoenix said:


> Herbe said:
> 
> 
> > rnp why did you sus me so hard and then never officially investigate me ever
> ...


you ever tell the same joke over and over (read: tunnel someone you're close to ie stryke or herbe) and you think it'll never get boring but one day you realize you grew up and it's not fun anymore


----------



## lolfoxes (Sep 12, 2022)

talked a little bit out with zori

conspiracy role is ~never town here as unclaimed

can't be rnp because of the self target, very unlikely to be herbe because of the no kill n1 (+ social reads)

so it's gotta be *jackpk* from our pov

~w


----------



## Herbe (Sep 12, 2022)

RedneckPhoenix said:


> RedneckPhoenix said:
> 
> 
> > Herbe said:
> ...


cmon i'm placed on you right now, can't you just vote me for a second for flirting's sake


----------



## Herbe (Sep 12, 2022)

i miss the attention <3


----------



## RedneckPhoenix (Sep 12, 2022)

fiiiiiiine... i gueeeeeessss...

*herbe~*

then *unvote *after like a few minutes


----------



## JackPK (Sep 12, 2022)

lolfoxes said:


> talked a little bit out with zori
> 
> conspiracy role is ~never town here as unclaimed
> 
> ...


I agree with all those points, but I know I don't have it -- so I think you must have it and are I guess trying to put me on the defensive? Your claimed role hasn't visibly done anything like the other three of ours have, so you could easily be fakeclaiming

That would for sure tilt my vote toward you _except_ that as long as we keep correctly sharing conspiracy data, the conspiracy role will never get its kill, so that's low priority until we're sure there are no other anti-town kill powers around

But it looks like there's at least one anti-town kill power still around (whoever killed ZM) and maybe two (presumed poisoner who killed haneko, unless it was ZM or Butterfree), so unless the latter is already dead and the former is doubled up with the conspiracy role on you, then either RNP or Herbe must be lying

It's 1am and I'm thinking too hard about this too close to bedtime so I'm going to have t sleep on this. but right now I'm pretty sure I can only hope that the presumed poisoner was ZM/Bfree and the killer who killed ZM is *lolfoxes* because otherwise brain hurt ouchy ouchy


----------



## qenya (Sep 12, 2022)

EoD is in about 34 and a half hours.

*Elimination votes:*
JackPK - lolfoxes (#275)
lolfoxes - JackPK (#279)

*Conspiracy votes:*
you all know the deal, I cba to look up the post numbers. I accept this role was a mistake lol


----------



## RedneckPhoenix (Sep 12, 2022)

i... hm. so theoretically, the reason there was no n1 kill was herbe blocked haneko, right, and haneko winds up dead, and flipping pearl clan. i feel pretty inclined to trust herbe about that, though i may be biased

regarding jack and foxes, since neither of them feel keen on admitting to having the conspiracy role, i figure we vote out one and herbe roleblocks the other, since it's possible we still have 2 scum, whether antialigned or teamed up.

if herbe roleblocks jack/foxes and me or herbe dies anyways, the best case scenario is herbe dies and i use my double vote to vote out the other one. worst case, i die and herbe lives, with herbe roleblocking the remaining evildoer and forcing either a stalemate or putting the whole game up to a coin flip, depending on how qenya feels. either a coinflip from a randed vote or from whom the conspiracy thing targets if the remaining evildoer is the conspirator

obviously it would be better if i were to live since *conspiracy *(just making double sure my vote goes through) and double votes and such but i figure if the remaining person/persons is a poisoner then i might be dead already rip


----------



## RedneckPhoenix (Sep 12, 2022)

that said i think it's kind of too fortuitous that one would be able to communicate with a spectator, since, spectator chat? so i'm gonna go for *foxes*


----------



## RedneckPhoenix (Sep 12, 2022)

also one of the diamond clan wardens has a munchlax and no villager has a snorlax so that's probably important


----------



## RedneckPhoenix (Sep 12, 2022)

snorlax only appears in the wild and there's no mention of it in any dialogue text boxes iirc so i have to guess that's a Lie


----------



## RedneckPhoenix (Sep 12, 2022)

and Anabel isn't in PLA! what the fuck


----------



## RedneckPhoenix (Sep 12, 2022)

not even, like, tangentially related like emmet. anabel is just completely unrelated to PLA as a whole. the closest connection you could make is that anabel is a Faller, but, that's not even in relation to PLA that's just part of the ultra beast storyline in sumo, iirc


----------



## RedneckPhoenix (Sep 12, 2022)

and jack... i know i'm not the conspirator, and if foxes is evil it'd be easy to confirm come morning, so i have to figure it's either jack or herbe, and if it's herbe honestly fair play for keeping it under wraps like that genuinely impressed.

i... i'm looking for other possibilities, but herbe couldn't have poisoned someone AND roleblocked haneko in one night, i reckon, and if the game doesn't end after this... hang on, i could be mistaken, but didn't you say you blocked foxes last night herbe? if foxes is the poisoner then we probably don't have to worry about one of us keeling over tonight, right. and if herbe blocks jack, nobody should die, and i'll investigate one of you two, or if herbe roleblocks me and someone dies, we'll know it's jack...?

i need to go to bed tbh but like herbe does this seem like a solid plan to you. i'm taking notes


----------



## RedneckPhoenix (Sep 12, 2022)

the plan being vote fox block jack investigate herbe


----------



## lolfoxes (Sep 12, 2022)

JackPK said:


> the other one I tossed was Palina from Pearl Clan, whose flavor description talked a lot about a bond with Growlithe that I don't have the brains to try to correlate with a role to imagine what role that might've been, if it was anything more specific than just generic scum


we're looking at a pearl clan left right
jack claimed to toss a pearl clan

additionally, jack basically spends the entire game vaguing haneko
he pushes rnp really shallowly for reasons "maybe rnp is openwolfing for pushing herbe"
he pushes us for like, meh reasons but nothing spectacular
when we tried to reaction test haneko's abra claim he came to her defence

overall i think that if we are dealing with a pearl clan here then we are insanely unaligned with haneko, and jackpk is plausibly aligned with haneko
additionally we were roleblocked last night on a night where there were 2 kills, _and _the conspiracy role went off. so if we were the conspiracy role then that would force us to be roleblock immune

so if its us then we're a roleblock immune diamond clan member when we have flavor suggestion of another pearl clan member
i think occam's razor points to jack here
@RedneckPhoenix @Herbe 

-nya


----------



## lolfoxes (Sep 12, 2022)

idrk how trustworthy the "theres another pearl clan out there" is
jack could easily be diamond for all i know
i just think that his social game is meh and he's probably the least socially towny out of the 3 remaining
his pushes feel like they dont have that much substance and they have a weird amount of staying power that is like, he's not convinced of the read but he's also not gonna let it go
he feels overall kinda just... muted across the entire game
no villagery flashes or moments

-nya


----------



## lolfoxes (Sep 12, 2022)

RedneckPhoenix said:


> and Anabel isn't in PLA! what the fuck


it's almost like we claimed this d1

~w


----------



## Herbe (Sep 12, 2022)

RedneckPhoenix said:


> i... i'm looking for other possibilities, but herbe couldn't have poisoned someone AND roleblocked haneko in one night, i reckon, and if the game doesn't end after this... hang on, i could be mistaken, but didn't you say you blocked foxes last night herbe? if foxes is the poisoner then we probably don't have to worry about one of us keeling over tonight, right. and if herbe blocks jack, nobody should die, and i'll investigate one of you two, or if herbe roleblocks me and someone dies, we'll know it's jack...?


yeah i did. I think your reasoning there is solid, very fair chance that foxes is poisoner. also anabel not being in pla - i mean, yeah sure they admitted it and set it up, but i just. yknow. i trust you on the whole not even being tangentially related thing because emmett for sure was at least related somehow.


lolfoxes said:


> additionally we were roleblocked last night on a night where there were 2 kills, _and _the conspiracy role went off. so if we were the conspiracy role then that would force us to be roleblock immune


yeah but poisoner would have acted night before last and that was definitely a poison kill. also i don't think the conspiracy thing would be roleblockable, since it shows up as long as the conspirator is alive.

i don't really know what to think of the munchlax/snorlax diamond clan connection or the alignment stuff but i think that either way we solve this and i'm way more concerned about a scum aligned foxes with eif on their side tbh. *foxes* vote for now and i think rnp's solve plan will go fine


----------



## lolfoxes (Sep 12, 2022)

Herbe said:


> i'm way more concerned about a scum aligned foxes with eif on their side tbh


what lmao

~w


----------



## lolfoxes (Sep 12, 2022)

hey @JackPK do you have a pokemon

~w


----------



## RedneckPhoenix (Sep 12, 2022)

lolfoxes said:


> RedneckPhoenix said:
> 
> 
> > and Anabel isn't in PLA! what the fuck
> ...


if that mattered then mcm2 would have gone very differently


----------



## lolfoxes (Sep 12, 2022)

RedneckPhoenix said:


> lolfoxes said:
> 
> 
> > RedneckPhoenix said:
> ...


if our flavor not being in the game mattered you should have questioned it d1

~w


----------



## RedneckPhoenix (Sep 12, 2022)

lolfoxes said:


> RedneckPhoenix said:
> 
> 
> > lolfoxes said:
> ...


i was not all there d1 by virtue of being on the tail end of multiple 12 hour shifts


----------



## lolfoxes (Sep 12, 2022)

fair enough

anyway i think i can prove jack is lying about something anyway but i want him to answer my question

~w


----------



## lolfoxes (Sep 12, 2022)

also like, why are you assuming ZM wasn't the poisoner? @Herbe 

i don't think haneko would have been targeted by a non-town in that situation

~w


----------



## RedneckPhoenix (Sep 12, 2022)

also i was kind of skimming then. brain didn't mentally flag that anabel wasn't a pla character until you claimed snorlax and i realized "hey i didn't see a colossal blue bear thing when i was running around jubilife"


----------



## lolfoxes (Sep 12, 2022)

qenya said:


> As soon as she touches the water, she explodes in a huge gout of flame and heat, evidently covered with some highly toxic or flammable substance.


actually how do we know this wasnt the poisoner

like i feel like it's very unlikely that the role is still alive

~w


----------



## RedneckPhoenix (Sep 12, 2022)

my hunch is that diamond clan had an arsonist and a poisoner to go along with the whole "time is important" thing

plus sabi doesn't have any poison pokemon but other diamond wardens like mai and arezu Do


----------



## lolfoxes (Sep 12, 2022)

mai's main pokemon is a munchlax i don't remember arezu's

melli uses a skuntank though?

~w


----------



## lolfoxes (Sep 12, 2022)

i do want to point out though

there is literally 0 reason i would willingly pick melli as my flavor

which i think is a reasonable point

~w


----------



## RedneckPhoenix (Sep 12, 2022)

arezu's lilligant has poison jab, mai's rematch has a crobat and a weavile with poison jab


----------



## RedneckPhoenix (Sep 12, 2022)

plus the flavor could always be "the berries munchlax likes so much are poisonous to humans"


----------



## lolfoxes (Sep 12, 2022)

okay point but it's only one pokemon per trainer

~w


----------



## lolfoxes (Sep 12, 2022)

RedneckPhoenix said:


> plus the flavor could always be "the berries munchlax likes so much are poisonous to humans"


doesnt explain bfree death flavor

~w


----------



## JackPK (Sep 12, 2022)

lolfoxes said:


> hey @JackPK do you have a pokemon
> 
> ~w


bidoof, I guess bc that's the first thing the player can catch in PLA


----------



## RedneckPhoenix (Sep 12, 2022)

sabi has a magmortar, and, more to the point, a braviary with giant fucking psychic flames coming out of its head


----------



## lolfoxes (Sep 12, 2022)

JackPK said:


> lolfoxes said:
> 
> 
> > hey @JackPK do you have a pokemon
> ...


hm

not what i was expecting but i guess i can't disprove it

~w


----------



## lolfoxes (Sep 12, 2022)

either im being clowned on or jack is just clever about lying

@Herbe do you mind explaining exactly how your role works

~w


----------



## lolfoxes (Sep 12, 2022)

qenya said:


> Her three mischievous Bidoof


oh and there’s this 

still believe Jack now @RedneckPhoenix


----------



## RedneckPhoenix (Sep 12, 2022)

no, hence why herbe will be roleblocking jack tonight


----------



## lolfoxes (Sep 12, 2022)

RedneckPhoenix said:


> no, hence why herbe will be roleblocking jack tonight


okay so we have confirmation jack is lying so why us before him

~w


----------



## RedneckPhoenix (Sep 12, 2022)

we don't have confirmation for shit what do you mean


----------



## Herbe (Sep 12, 2022)

lolfoxes said:


> also like, why are you assuming ZM wasn't the poisoner? @Herbe
> 
> i don't think haneko would have been targeted by a non-town in that situation
> 
> ~w


why not? i really believe haneko was poisoned from flavor and i don't see how a poisoner is gonna be town aligned
and like why do i need to assume ZM /was/ the poisoner???? zm flipped town yeah ?? i just don't see poisoner town thats all. weird defenses here



lolfoxes said:


> qenya said:
> 
> 
> > As soon as she touches the water, she explodes in a huge gout of flame and heat, evidently covered with some highly toxic or flammable substance.
> ...


/covered/ with it seems very unlikely to be the role that /controls/ it. like why would a poisoner be slathered in their own poison. i still think that that's unrelated to the poisoner scenario although it might be somehow - butterfree was a daykill right, so would there have been time for her to have been poisoned previous to that but it not have been kicked in yet? i just don't think that flavor suggests controller rather than victim




lolfoxes said:


> @Herbe do you mind explaining exactly how your role works


i target someone to be roleblocked. that night they are roleblocked


----------



## Herbe (Sep 12, 2022)

all the holes in the persuasions here are making me increasingly confident about the foxes vote today and the jacksolve tomorrow/tonight lmao


----------



## lolfoxes (Sep 12, 2022)

Herbe said:


> lolfoxes said:
> 
> 
> > also like, why are you assuming ZM wasn't the poisoner? @Herbe
> ...


second quote rest won’t work
considered that too but it doesn’t line up with haneko getting poisoned

~w


----------



## lolfoxes (Sep 13, 2022)

okay summarizing this (mostly eifie's thoughts but they make sense to me)

a flavor check confirms that zm was sanqua and his partner pokemon was bidoof, which makes jack's claim impossible
it's most likely that butterfree was the one that killed haneko after her death (for reasons i do not understand), if you consider the flavor of her disappearing instantly along with the toxin stuff, and the fact that it's been essentially proven that there isnt a poisoner alive (unless theres 2 mafia of different factions or mafia + self aligned 3p in which case this game is kinda uh)

ergo jack is mafia and we are a red herring being set up

@RedneckPhoenix pinging you for this since your vote being double means you're the one we need to convince

~w


----------



## lolfoxes (Sep 13, 2022)

i do think non town herbe is still plausible (eifie did not mention that)

but jack is essentially confirmed as such, and this should effectively illustrate that

~w


----------



## RedneckPhoenix (Sep 13, 2022)

see i'm more inclined to believe jack if only because jack's claimed character is actually related to the game


----------



## RedneckPhoenix (Sep 13, 2022)

if this is a frenzy plant then sorry blame qenya


----------



## lolfoxes (Sep 13, 2022)

uwu

-nya


----------



## lolfoxes (Sep 13, 2022)

RedneckPhoenix said:


> see i'm more inclined to believe jack if only because jack's claimed character is actually related to the game


???????

are you kidding

~w


----------



## lolfoxes (Sep 13, 2022)

do you actually think i'm that non functional as mafia that this is ai

...sorry someone yell at me to shut up before i actually tilt

just

weh

~w


----------



## lolfoxes (Sep 13, 2022)

basically
jack is claiming to have the same pokemon as zero moment
last time someone claimed to have the same pokemon as another card, they were mafia

we are anabel. anabel is not in the game. emmet is not in the game. anabel is related to the game inasmuch as being a sinnoh secret police operative that could have a reason to investigate time rifts. emmet is confirmed to be a rolecord. this isn't a "blame qenya" moment because the evidence is there to show that characters that never appear in PLA have roles in this game

i respect whatever decision you come to, i just want to acknowledge that there is clear precedent in this thread for both 1. jack's claim overlap indicating a lie and 2. our claimed character not necessarily indicating a lie


----------



## lolfoxes (Sep 13, 2022)

lolfoxes said:


> basically
> jack is claiming to have the same pokemon as zero moment
> last time someone claimed to have the same pokemon as another card, they were mafia
> 
> ...


~nya


----------



## RedneckPhoenix (Sep 13, 2022)

have you played pla? this isn't, like, this isn't a dig, i'm just genuinely curious

ingo is in PLA. emmet is ingo's twin brother. ingo talks about emmet in the game, but can't remember him exactly or his name

it's extremely common in fics or comics or whatever to have emmet and ingo back as a duo. usually volo is there too and dating emmet fsr i don't get the ship personally


----------



## RedneckPhoenix (Sep 13, 2022)

also in canon the player character /caught/ those bidoof for the person who's name i forgot.


----------



## lolfoxes (Sep 13, 2022)

i havent played pla

anabel is definitely up there in one of the most fanficable characters of the pokemon universe
emmet is only pla fanficable because ingo is there

outing qenya as writing anabel fanfic-lite with the existence of our rolecard

~nya

p.s. I also will note that jack claimed to be holding palina before anybody else claimed cards, confirming for sure that at least _he was holding a pearl card_ in his hand. imo this is nail-in-the-coffin for our slot's perspective so idc enough to do the math on that, you can evaluate it for yourself


----------



## lolfoxes (Sep 13, 2022)

RedneckPhoenix said:


> also in canon the player character /caught/ those bidoof for the person who's name i forgot.


so why would they both exist at the same time

~w


----------



## RedneckPhoenix (Sep 13, 2022)

also also it doesn't even matter bc i genuinely believe herbe is town bc i know for a fact herbe doesn't have a switch and hasn't played pla but herbe also accurately described a character from pla, and with this herbetruthtelling, i believe herbe should be telling the truth about blocking jack tonight anyways


----------



## lolfoxes (Sep 13, 2022)

rather

why would the bidoof exist as both players' pokemon

that seems paradoxical, and not in the way that this plot is built on

~w


----------



## RedneckPhoenix (Sep 13, 2022)

i'm out of time on my lunch break i'll be back later


----------



## lolfoxes (Sep 13, 2022)

RedneckPhoenix said:


> usually volo is there too


i have seen a lot of volo enjoyers on twitter actually
volo seems cool enough even though i have no idea what he does besides be a guy with blonde hair and a name out of dnd

~nya


----------



## lolfoxes (Sep 13, 2022)

lolfoxes said:


> RedneckPhoenix said:
> 
> 
> > also in canon the player character /caught/ those bidoof for the person who's name i forgot.
> ...


one would think that jack would have already lost his bidoof by the time zm has died, if he had truly caught it to give to zm
however, jack is claiming to still own a bidoof. since we know for certain that the bidoof was not in jack's care 48 hours ago due to the flavor text surrounding zm's death, we know he was not in constant custody of the bidoof. there are two conclusions:

1. he is lying about his custody of the bidoof
2. he is a negligent pokemon trainer

pick your poison

~nya


----------



## lolfoxes (Sep 13, 2022)

tldr we both think
1. the wolf is objectively likely jack for mechanical reasons we've reiterated many times
2. the wolf is objectively likely jack for social reasons ive laid out at least once
3. we feel like we're pretty objectively unlikely to be aligned with haneko for reasons we've laid out before

if you chose to dismiss our points out of hand then there's not much we can do about it besides move on to the next game
if you deliberated on them and decided that you disagree then i guess itd be nice to say that so we have talking points on convincing you but the bottom line is that the flips will tell
unless you engage with the points we've laid out further i think we're just at an impasse

i just want you to know for postgame when we flip villa that the information _was_ there and the game wasn't unsolvable and didn't just come down to a "blame qenya" moment

~nya


----------



## lolfoxes (Sep 13, 2022)

lolfoxes said:


> tldr we both think


possibly all three of us
i dont really know eifie's stance on _all _of those points because my eyes have kinda been glazing over our chat but i know they support uh
at least #1

~nya


----------



## RedneckPhoenix (Sep 13, 2022)

the first tutorial pokemon you're forced to catch is a bidoof

how the builder corps quest works is you need to have a bidoof at the front of your party to calm the other three bidoof down enough so you may catch them such that builder corps person can have the 3 others while you keep the first

so the pc, in this canon, would be required to have at least had a bidoof at one point

also there's literally infinite bidoof in the wild.


----------



## RedneckPhoenix (Sep 13, 2022)

listen, i get where you're coming from, but generally speaking if you really want to make up fake flavor, google is right there


----------



## RedneckPhoenix (Sep 13, 2022)

even if anabel was in this game, there's one main point: _anabel is neither a villager nor galaxy team member_
so even if your claim of a character completely unrelated to the rest of this entire game and the original source material is true, by the rules and roles we know, they'd be third party at BEST


----------



## RedneckPhoenix (Sep 13, 2022)

if given the choice between voting a claim that's at the very least somewhat plausible, or voting a claim that is straight the fuck out of left field...?

well. lemme just make sure my vote is still on *foxes, *in case i accidentally took it off or something


----------



## lolfoxes (Sep 13, 2022)

RedneckPhoenix said:


> listen, i get where you're coming from, but generally speaking if you really want to make up fake flavor, google is right there


have you considered that our claim is out of left field because we aren’t lying to make it look more plausible

wronf quote but whatever


----------



## lolfoxes (Sep 13, 2022)

sorry that i got a bit heated there towards rnp
after your explanation i respect your decision

i think personally that you could get there if you were thinking big picture having to considering everything that happened as a whole, instead of getting hung up on one point like youre doing right now (because all living players right now have sticking points that you can get hung up on and push), but thats a skill that takes practice for sure
godspeed

-nya (not actually but i have no clue how im signing)


----------



## qenya (Sep 13, 2022)

*About half an hour to EoD.

Elimination votes:*
JackPK - lolfoxes (#275)
lolfoxes - JackPK (#279), RedneckPhoenix (#282), Herbe (#292)


----------



## qenya (Sep 13, 2022)

*The day has ended. Please hold for results.*


----------



## qenya (Sep 14, 2022)

*Endgame*​
The village square has all but devolved into a fistfight. Insults fly thick and fast, everyone believing the worst of each other. Eventually the argument coalesces around two figures. Anabel, a recent faller-from-the-sky, claims to have been a police investigator in the world she hailed from, and says her investigations have led to the undeniable truth, if only everyone would listen; but she is shouted down by a young red-haired boy who seems unconvinced by her credentials and believes her to be an imposter. She tries to reason with him, but it's futile; with the credibility he's gained from his efforts to uncover the mysterious conspirators, the town cannot be swayed. The boy orders his Goomy to restrain her, and she is dragged away.

Without the trusty Bidoof to assemble a gallows, more inventive measures of execution are required, and Lian has had plenty of time to practice his craft. Anabel does not receive the mercy of a swift death.

*lolfoxes are dead. They were a Villager.*

"Now," Lian says, turning to the assembled villagers, and a fearsome smile spreads across his face, "there are going to be some changes around here. From now on, you all answer to the Pearl Clan and _me_. Anyone who doesn't like that... Well, you saw what happened to _her_. We all know there aren't enough of you left to stand against me!"

Everyone is stunned into silence for a moment, but before anyone else has a chance to react, a low, menacing chuckle rings out behind him. A Galaxy Team guard steps out from the shadows - Beauregard, responsible for standing watch over the entrance to the Galaxy Team's headquarters.

"'Not enough of you'? What, did you think you were the only one with plans for this place? That once that stupid cop was out of the way, we'd just fold up and cower beneath your heel like those poor pathetic villagers?"

Lian goes to order his Goomy forward, intending to capture this insolent man and have him burned alive as an example to the rest of the village, but he is stopped short, suddenly breathless. He looks down to see the jagged, cruel-looking tip of a knife protruding through his chest, his life's blood already beginning to spread over the front of his clothing.

"Ah, I see you've met my friend," smirks Beauregard. "We've not talked much about his past, but he is absolutely _devoted_ to our cause. You know he's been the one behind all those conspiracy rumours that have been going around? A most ingenious distraction from our true purpose, I thought."

His monologue is wasted, however. Lian's eyes have already glazed over, his final choking gasps fading to nothing.

*RedneckPhoenix is dead. He was Pearl Clan.*

As soon as Lian's body hits the ground, a cold pale glow flares up, illuminating the whole square. Beauregard turns instantly, his eyes wide and crazed.

"Beaugene! I told that stupid professor you were really a Silcoon! Now that we've disposed of these meddlers, there's nobody standing in our way. We'll bring the world to its knees, Beaugene, you and me!"

The being taking shape before them indeed has the form of a Beautifly - albeit a huge one - its iridescent wings spreading the full length of the Galaxy Team headquarters. But somehow there is an undefinable wrongness about it, like its basic geometry doesn't quite match with the rest of the world. Beauregard and his follower drop to their knees, ecstasy written on their faces as the sickly light grows to envelop them. The other villagers turn to flee, but the world begins to fade away around them, replaced with something altogether far more alien. Impossible colours and incomprehensible shapes dance in front of their eyes, twisting their minds to better serve their new master. An elder evil has claimed this village for its own designs now, and it will not be resisted.

*The Cult of Beaugene (Herbe and JackPK) have won!*







_Several years later..._

A chill wind blows through the empty streets of Jubilife Village, whistling through holes in the tumbledown ruins and rustling the weeds that have grown to envelope the pastures. The few Celestic people who remain in Hisui avoid this place now, believing it to be cursed, and perhaps they are right. A great evil was born into the world here, and the scars that such a thing leaves behind take eternities to heal.

But for today, at least, the village is occupied. A chorus of bleats echoes down the abandoned avenues as a flock of fluffy, huggable Wooloo amble around, directed by a short dark-haired girl wearing what looks like a set of fine pyjamas. These creatures aren't native to the region, but since the settlements were abandoned they have thrived under her care and guidance. After all, in a place uninhabited, who is there to hinder their growth? One day, their descendants will encounter the Thing again, and this time they will defeat it. She is sure of it.

*Eifie has also won!*



Spoiler: Pings



@M&F
@JackPK
@lolfoxes (@Wisper & @Zori)
@Zero Moment
@RedneckPhoenix
@Herbe
@haneko
@Butterfree
@Eifie


----------



## lolfoxes (Sep 14, 2022)

now look what you've done

~w


----------



## lolfoxes (Sep 14, 2022)

i acknowledge that this was a fairly clear possibility from the start but i don't really feel like playing a game that's unwinnable by design was fun

sorry

~w


----------



## Zori (Sep 14, 2022)

fair
we had to assume 3v1 in order to have a chance as winning so it was best to consider rnp as v
i acknowledged the chance that rnp was w bit in any world where he was there was no point even trying the last day


----------



## JackPK (Sep 14, 2022)

incredible! (and of course eifie wins how could eifie _not_ win)

I gotta say, being 3p-whose-wincon-is-that-another-3p-gets-their-wincon is not the kind of game I would've picked from the start and I think that unfortunately showed in my awkward play, but it turned out to be a lot of fun anyway, and I managed to help Herbe win regardless so I'm pleased!


----------



## Novae (Sep 14, 2022)

im less mad about that and more mad about the "5 non town vs 3 town" part of it


----------



## Zori (Sep 14, 2022)

also like
game going to f4 in a 3v2v1v2 situation is basically a win for me 
there were no way we were going to win with literally 3 villas lol


----------



## Eifie (Sep 14, 2022)

thank god everyone was in fact not town jeez


----------



## Eifie (Sep 14, 2022)

it's no longer mean to post this meme


----------



## qenya (Sep 14, 2022)

yeah. there was still a chance for you to win on the last day - if you'd eliminated RNP, Jack and Herbe would have immediately met their wincon and left the game (same deal as the subway bosses) and left you as the only surviving player. but there wasn't really any way for you to know that so it was less fair than I would have liked. mostly the question at hand was "will RNP listen to you and vote out Jack, thereby ensuring his own victory"

I was quite surprised at how many people had the option to pick town and didn't, too; like Butterfree suggested in the signup thread, I thought people would instantly gravitate towards town roles, and that's why I didn't include that many, to ensure there were at least a couple of scum - but it seems the lure of interesting-sounding flavour was too strong. alas.


----------



## Herbe (Sep 14, 2022)

lolfoxes said:


> i don't really feel like playing a game that's unwinnable by design was fun
> 
> sorry
> 
> ~w


"by design" isn't quite fair to put it - all of this cult business actually came about because I chose the third party role that was "an AI is gonna generate your wincon the start of day 1" and what it came out with was a) i win when the role cop dies and b) i have a partner (who is not a traitor he is just good at mafia games.)

anyway! big props to jack for the partnership scenario and everything that went into that, ty for all the help !!!


----------



## Herbe (Sep 14, 2022)

although it did end up unbalancy at the end admittedly. To be fair if i had had my way we woulda voted RNP out this day too (because you were poisoned foxes and i wanted to cover my bases) (my poison was also a roleblock)


----------



## Novae (Sep 14, 2022)

idk how to respond to that isnt just venting salt so i just wont

congrats on the win


----------



## JackPK (Sep 14, 2022)

qenya said:


> yeah. there was still a chance for you to win on the last day - if you'd eliminated RNP, Jack and Herbe would have immediately met their wincon and left the game (same deal as the subway bosses) and left you as the only surviving player. but there wasn't really any way for you to know that so it was less fair than I would have liked. mostly the question at hand was "will RNP listen to you and vote out Jack, thereby ensuring his own victory"
> 
> I was quite surprised at how many people had the option to pick town and didn't, too; like Butterfree suggested in the signup thread, I thought people would instantly gravitate towards town roles, and that's why I didn't include that many, to ensure there were at least a couple of scum - but it seems the lure of interesting-sounding flavour was too strong. alas.


honestly I expected everybody to pick town and for town to win d1 by default because there was no anti-town. that's the entiiiire reason I picked Adaman, is so there would be at least some scum to make the game interesting. clearly I underestimated the rest of y'all haha


----------



## Herbe (Sep 14, 2022)

also i had an odd little votestealing mechanic where anybody who voted for me on an odd day would have their vote nullified for the day and would increase my power by one. plus jack had the daystall thing so as long as he was alive and it was day 1 (or 3) i couldn't be voted out. i tried tricking rnp into voting for me today but it was vetoed cause it was a joke vote (which, fair) 

salt understandable. thank you though


----------



## JackPK (Sep 14, 2022)

and then I ended up not even being proper scum anyway but getting 3p-ified instead. such is life


----------



## Herbe (Sep 14, 2022)

my /only options/ were 3ps


----------



## qenya (Sep 14, 2022)

yeah... I was worried the vote thievery would end up being too far over the top (since I originally wrote it expecting you to be working alone, Herbe) but it didn't actually end up affecting anything. in fact I think the two of you actually ended up underpowered compared to the Pearl Clan


----------



## JackPK (Sep 14, 2022)

also I would just like to share a meme which requires me to explain to the class (if folks haven't already read about it in graveyard chat) that part of my 3pification was that I got to pick another role out of the publicly-published discarded rolecards, and this is how I chose to do so:



JackPK said:


> I think it would be very funny and rancid to pick Melli so I'm going to pick *Melli
> 
> 
> 
> ...


which ironically ended up being completely irrelevant iirc (Melli's power stopped the clock on d1 which allowed Herbe to votesteal every day bc every day was odd-numbered... but then nobody voted for Herbe after that anyway iirc)


----------



## Herbe (Sep 14, 2022)

i really am just so delighted that my win condition was to ensure rnp's demise and also shaking my head that i prolonged it so long and didn't just Go For It once he mentioned coppitude but hey it worked out. again just so thrilled the AI told me to get his ass (even though i didn't have it confirmed it was him)


----------



## Herbe (Sep 14, 2022)

my glorious little beaugene... such pretty art. (ai generated?)


----------



## qenya (Sep 14, 2022)

For the curious:



Spoiler: Action Log



Night 0:
* M&F chooses Anthe & Wormadam (Village Self-Deflector-Iser)
* JackPK chooses Adaman & Leafeon (Diamond Clan Conspiracy Generator)
* lolfoxes chooses Anabel & Snorlax (Village Shadowhydra)
* Zero Moment chooses Sanqua & Bidoof & Bidoof & Bidoof (Village Multitasking Jack of All Trades (1-Shot Doctor, 1-Shot Vigilante, 1-Shot Roleblocker))
* RedneckPhoenix chooses Lian & Goomy (Pearl Clan Role Cop)
* Herbe chooses Beauregard & Beaugene (Random Alignment Macho Odd Day Reflexive Role Thief Roleblocker Poisoner)
    * Herbe acquires the wincon: Kill the Role Cop. (This is RedneckPhoenix.)
    * JackPK's faction/wincon is changed to: Self-aligned. You win if Herbe wins. You may communicate privately with Herbe. You may choose one of the 8 revealed characters and gain their ability at the end of Day 1.
* haneko chooses Irida (Pearl Clan 2-Shot Asceticiseriser)
* Butterfree chooses Sabi & Magmortar (Diamond Clan Arsonist)

Day 1:
* A conspiracy begins against Zero Moment.
* Herbe steals RedneckPhoenix's voting power.
* Herbe steals M&F's voting power.
* M&F is eliminated and flips as Villager.
* Zero Moment correctly identifies the conspiracy.
* JackPK acquires Melli's role ability (Phase Number Freezer).

Night 1:
* Herbe blocks and poisons haneko.
* Zero Moment does not use a night action.
* RedneckPhoenix investigates Butterfree and receives the result "Butterfree is an Arsonist".
* haneko tries to kill lolfoxes but is blocked by Herbe.
* Butterfree primes Zero Moment.

Day 1 (2):
* Zero Moment has 1 extra voting power from the conspiracy.
* A conspiracy begins against RedneckPhoenix.
* Butterfree is eliminated and flips as Diamond Clan.
* RedneckPhoenix correctly identifies the conspiracy.

Night 1 (2):
* Herbe blocks and poisons lolfoxes.
* Zero Moment heals RedneckPhoenix.
* haneko inflicts frostbite on Herbe's target(s) (lolfoxes) during the next night phase.
* RedneckPhoenix kills Zero Moment.
* haneko dies from poison.

Day 1 (3):
* RedneckPhoenix has 1 extra voting power from the conspiracy.
* A conspiracy begins against RedneckPhoenix.
* lolfoxes is eliminated and flips as Villager.
* Herbe and JackPK win. (Eifie also wins.)





Spoiler: Rolecard: M&F - Anthe & Wormadam



*Anthe & Wormadam - Self-Deflector-Iser*
_"This is what’s known as a Sandy Cloak... The way the sand wraps around Wormadam, it’s as if the very earth is giving it a loving hug!"_






(yes i know this is just the picture from her bulbapedia page but i could find
Literally Nothing Else on the internet. fan artists, you have let me down)​
A master clothier, you delight in drawing fashion inspiration from the appearances and behaviour of Pokémon. Your needlework is second to none.

Each night, you may target a player, tying them to their targets with fine silk thread. All actions used that night on that player's targets will target them instead.

You are aligned with the *Villagers*. You win when all living players are *Villagers*, or when nothing can prevent this from happening. _(You don't win if all players die simultaneously.)_





Spoiler: Rolecard: JackPK - Adaman & Leafeon



*Adaman & Leafeon - Mafia Cult Conspiracy Generator*
_"It’s a miracle you showed up on time, oh mighty leader of the Pearl Clan. I worried you’d get lost in the pointlessly vast space you’re so fond of and never show up."_





As the leader of the Diamond Clan, you are known as a wise and fair arbiter, even to those you disagree with. But rumour has it that under that surface lies a simmering resentment for the heretics of the Pearl Clan, and that you would stop at nothing to conspire against them... Or maybe it's all in their heads.

While you are alive, at the beginning of each day phase, a random living player will be selected, and all other living players will be privately informed that they are conspiring against that player. If you are selected, instead only you will be informed that there is no conspiracy that day.

During the day, all living players may vote on whether or not they believe there is a conspiracy, in addition to the ordinary elimination poll. If there is a conspiracy and the target of the conspiracy correctly identifies this, they will be granted 1 extra elimination vote during the next day phase. If there is not a conspiracy and a majority of living players correctly identify this, then each player who guessed correctly will be granted 1 extra elimination vote during the next day phase. You do not have a conspiracy vote (although you may pretend that you do and it will be included in vote totals).

If nobody gains an extra vote as a result of this minigame, you may target a player during the following night. That player dies.

This role PM, excluding your alignment and identity, will be published to the thread at the beginning of each day you are alive to clarify these mechanics.

You are aligned with the *Diamond Clan*, and may comm- hmm? What's this? Some kind of powerful force is twisting reality...!

You are now *self-aligned*. You win if Herbe wins. You may communicate privately with Herbe.

During Day 1, you may pick a second character from among the 8 rejected characters in the main thread. You gain the abilities (but not the alignment) of that character at the beginning of Night 1, in addition to your existing abilities. _(You can still only use one action each night.)_





Spoiler: Rolecard: lolfoxes - Anabel & Snorlax



*Anabel & Snorlax - Town Shadowhydra*
_"I must applaud Mr. Looker for that remarkable energy of his. He is in a class of his own, even within the elite members of the International Police... I would never have expected someone like him to serve under my command..."_





You are a highly trained operative of the International Police's Paradox Prevention Agency, sent back in time to the land of Hisui to ensure the local time-space fluctuations pose no danger to present-day Sinnoh. Cut off from your team, you will have to rely on your wits and the sage advice of your partner (codename: 100kr) to succeed in your mission.

At the beginning of Day 1, one active TCoD community member who is not a player in this game will be added to this role PM. You may communicate with them at any time about the game.

You are aligned with the *Villagers*. You win when all living players are *Villagers*, or when nothing can prevent this from happening. _(You don't win if all players die simultaneously.)_





Spoiler: Rolecard: Zero Moment - Sanqua & Bidoof & Bidoof & Bidoof



*Sanqua & Bidoof & Bidoof & Bidoof - Town Multitasking Jack of All Trades*
_"It’d be a shame to just send those Bidoof back into the wild, no? My Construction Corps could find a use for ’em. They’re just Pokémon being Pokémon. How’re they supposed to know our village is a strict no-chewing zone? Shows good taste on their part to come all the way here to gnaw on our woodwork, too."_





The Galaxy Team Construction Corps are always in need of able bodies to help with building efforts. These three Bidoof initially caused mischief when they arrived in Jubilife Village, but you've come to appreciate their unique talents.

Each of your Bidoof has a special ability, each of which you may use once during the game:

Target a player at night. You protect that player from up to one effect that would kill them that night.
Target a player at night. That player dies.
Target a player at night. That player's night actions, if any, are blocked.
You may perform multiple night actions during each night phase.

You are aligned with the *Villagers*. You win when all living players are *Villagers*, or when nothing can prevent this from happening. _(You don't win if all players die simultaneously.)_





Spoiler: Rolecard: RedneckPhoenix - Lian & Goomy



*Lian & Goomy - Mafia Role Cop*
_"And you—I’ve already deduced that you’ve come here to meet Kleavor. I’m right, aren’t I?"_





Some people have called you precocious, insinuating you're too young to protect the great Lord Kleavor. But you'll show them all. Nobody else is as skilled as you at guessing people's intentions.

Each night, you may target a player. You learn that player's role name, as close as possible to standard mafia terms (e.g. Vanilla, Doctor, Insane Cop), but not their alignment.

You are aligned with the *Pearl Clan*, and may communicate with them in private. You win when all living players are *Pearl Clan*, or when nothing can prevent this from happening. _(You don't win if all players die simultaneously.)_

Each night, one *Pearl Clan* member may target a player. That player dies. _(You can't use this action at the same time as the one granted by your role.)_





Spoiler: Rolecard: Herbe - Beauregard & Beaugene



*Beauregard & Beaugene - Macho Odd Day Reflexive Vote Thief Roleblocker Poisoner Hunter*
_"I don’t believe it... Professor Laventon seems to think that li’l Beaugene here is a Cascoon... But, errr, hello? It’s CLEARLY a Silcoon."_





Your beautiful Beaugene isn't going to evolve into a Beautifly after all? Unacceptable. This will not stand. You will bend the forces of chaos to your will to prevent it.

On odd days, whenever a player votes for you, their vote is nullified for the rest of the day and your vote's power is instead increased by 1. This applies even if they change their vote later in the day.

You cannot be protected from effects that would kill you.

Each night, you may target a player. That player is roleblocked. Next night, that player dies.

You are *self-aligned*. Your win condition will be generated by a GPT-3 model at the beginning of Day 1. If the resulting role PM contradicts other parts of the game, the game will be altered to compensate.

You are *self-aligned*. You win when the role cop dies. You have a partner. He is a Special Dual-Role Player. He is not a traitor, he is just a person who is good at mafia games.





Spoiler: Rolecard: haneko - Irida & Glaceon



*Irida & Glaceon - Mafia Asceticiseriser*
_"Allow Glaceon’s true strength to chill you to your depths!"_





You only came into your own as leader of the Pearl Clan very recently, and you're still anxious and doubt your own abilities. But when it really matters, you can be as firm and unyielding as a glacier for your people. You'll ensure victory over those heretics from the Diamond Clan if it kills you.

Up to twice during the game, during the night, you may target a living player. That player's own targets each suffer from frostbite during the following night. _(Frostbite means a player is blocked from peforming actions and cannot communicate with others, and they are informed whenever a living player targets them.)_

You are aligned with the *Pearl Clan*, and may communicate with them in private. You win when all living players are *Pearl Clan*, or when nothing can prevent this from happening. _(You don't win if all players die simultaneously.)_

Each night, one *Pearl Clan* member may target a player. That player dies. _(You can't use this action at the same time as the one granted by your role.)_





Spoiler: Rolecard: Butterfree - Sabi & Magmortar



*Sabi & Magmortar - Mafia Arsonist*
_"You made it all the way up here in this cold! But the question is...did you catch me? Or did I let myself get caught? Hmmm?"_





You delight in all sorts of puzzles and games and are fond of tormenting the travellers who come seeking Lord Braviary's wisdom, letting them get just close enough to you to savour the disappointment when they fail to reach you. But that joy will only hold your interest for so long... When you get tired, well, you always have your mighty Pokémon here to "protect" you. Surely nobody will notice if one more ill-prepared pilgrim loses their way in these snowy wastes.

Each night, you may either:

Target a player. You prime them with a flammable substance.
Breathe fire. All players who you previously primed die, and their bodies are charred so badly that their alignments are not revealed.
You are aligned with the *Diamond Clan*. Unfortunately, there are no other *Diamond Clan* players, so you have no access to a factional scumchat. You win when all living players are *Diamond Clan*, or when nothing can prevent this from happening. _(You don't win if all players die simultaneously.)_

Each night, one *Diamond Clan* member may target a player. That player dies. _(You can't use this action at the same time as the one granted by your role.)_





Spoiler: Rolecard: Eifie - Eifie & Wooloo



*Eifie & Wooloo*
_"Woooooloooooo"_

Clad in your your signature Wooloo pyjamas, your flock by your side, you look out over this new land. Not a doubt exists in your mind about the reason for your arrival here. These poor fools (with the possible exception of Professor Laventon) have never seen or heard of such a Pokémon as a Wooloo, but they are not to blame for their transgressions; you will swiftly cure them of their ignorance.

You are aligned with *Eifie*. You win when Wooloo is appreciated as the fluffiest, most huggable Pokémon in existence.


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## Novae (Sep 14, 2022)

qenya said:


> He is not a traitor, he is just a person who is good at mafia games.


oh my god


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## qenya (Sep 14, 2022)

Yeah, I wasn't sure how to interpret the "good at mafia games" bit but I selected Herbe's partner from the three players with he/him pronouns to make it match as closely as possible

Also informed each of the scumchats that there were no traitors in the game (there weren't anyway, that would've been too complicated for me to keep track of on top of all the other bullshit, but)


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## Eifie (Sep 14, 2022)

the AI-generated win condition idea is absolutely hilarious and I applaud you for it


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## Eifie (Sep 14, 2022)

(clearly he is good at mafia games since he won-)


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## Herbe (Sep 14, 2022)

i know right like i was blown away there was /no/ competition i had to take the Opportunity lmao


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## Eifie (Sep 14, 2022)

I have altered the game. pray that I do not alter it further


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## Herbe (Sep 14, 2022)

also fascinating that there was already a role cop picked out. like rnp could have picked any other 2 things but apparently it was a bona fide role cop choice already there for the AI to tunnel on


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## Butterfree (Sep 14, 2022)

I _would_ have picked town but I didn't have the option >:/

I figured there was no way a game where people pick their alignments could be anything resembling balanced and instead the point of the game would just be shenanigans, on which it delivered. Unfortunately I reluctantly picked mafia over the two third parties in the hope that then at least I'd get to have a partner, only to be the _only_ Diamond Clanner, and also didn't really get to do anything and also genuinely forgot about the game for most of the first day and then had a very busy day and wasn't even home in time to catch up before EoD on the second. Need to play another game on here soon to make up for it.


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## JackPK (Sep 14, 2022)

qenya said:


> Yeah, I wasn't sure how to interpret the "good at mafia games" bit but I selected Herbe's partner from the three players with he/him pronouns to make it match as closely as possible


 RNP has he/him pronouns........... I'm imagining the hilarious chaos that would've ensued if he had been selected


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## JackPK (Sep 14, 2022)

"hello herbe this is your partner. your wincon is to kill him. his wincon is for you to kill him."


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## qenya (Sep 14, 2022)

hey, whatever they're into is cool


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## Butterfree (Sep 14, 2022)

Also the GPT-generated win condition is _amazing_ I am dying


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## qenya (Sep 14, 2022)

Herbe said:


> also fascinating that there was already a role cop picked out. like rnp could have picked any other 2 things but apparently it was a bona fide role cop choice already there for the AI to tunnel on


yeah! that impressed me as well

in all honesty I had to retry several times with varying prompts to get it to work; I didn't save the rejects but iirc it kept trying to write trainerfic instead of an actual mafia role as instructed. once it did, though, oh god what a delivery


Butterfree said:


> I _would_ have picked town but I didn't have the option >:/
> 
> I figured there was no way a game where people pick their alignments could be anything resembling balanced and instead the point of the game would just be shenanigans, on which it delivered. Unfortunately I reluctantly picked mafia over the two third parties in the hope that then at least I'd get to have a partner, only to be the _only_ Diamond Clanner, and also didn't really get to do anything and also genuinely forgot about the game for most of the first day and then had a very busy day and wasn't even home in time to catch up before EoD on the second. Need to play another game on here soon to make up for it.


yeah. personally I thought you were doing very well at evading suspicion (even if it was unintentional!) and was rooting for you... but then RNP got his unfortunate lucky investigation on you and the writing was kind of on the wall. :( if not for that I think you would have gotten very close to victory! but it is a shame you didn't get to play on a team as you'd hoped. sorry about that.


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## Zori (Sep 14, 2022)

working on spinning up gamethread right now!
i havent had all the rolecards written but i have all the roles in shorthand on a pm so its only a matter of time tbh nya


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## JackPK (Sep 14, 2022)

I have a question! were the sets of 3 roles to pick from curated or randomly generated? 

I'm just curious since it sounds like the 3p role options were pretty heavily concentrated, and if that was random it's a hell of a coincidence, but if it was curated I'm curious why


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## Zori (Sep 14, 2022)

or rather, sign ups thread


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## Herbe (Sep 14, 2022)

JackPK said:


> "hello herbe this is your partner. your wincon is to kill him. his wincon is for you to kill him."


blood cult sacrifice! blood cult sacrifice!


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## qenya (Sep 14, 2022)

JackPK said:


> I have a question! were the sets of 3 roles to pick from curated or randomly generated?


the latter! I think I did say that on the signup thread, in fact, though it might not have been obvious enough. There were initially 27 rolecards, and I picked three for each player completely at random

by a bizarre quirk of RNG, the 3 rolecards that didn't get assigned to anyone were the three Miss Fortunes, who were all self-aligned doctors with the wincon "you win if any Miss Fortune is alive at the end of the game". if mewt had been playing after all then I guess they would have all gone to the final signup, Butterfree... perhaps she got off lightly in her quest to avoid self-alignment


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## M&F (Sep 14, 2022)

qenya said:


> the latter! I think I did say that on the signup thread, in fact, though it might not have been obvious enough. There were initially 27 rolecards, and I picked three for each player completely at random
> 
> by a bizarre quirk of RNG, the 3 rolecards that didn't get assigned to anyone were the three Miss Fortunes, who were all self-aligned doctors with the wincon "you win if any Miss Fortune is alive at the end of the game". if mewt had been playing after all then I guess they would have all gone to the final signup, Butterfree... perhaps she got off lightly in her quest to avoid self-alignment


"the illusion of choice" meme but all the options lead to "play survivor"--

anyway this game has been exactly as baffling and batshit as the premise called for, so what can I say? sold as promised! I suppose there would've been time and space (har) for more shenanigans if there were more players, but it would also have definitely broken poor qenya for good-

I can't say I wasn't expecting a lot of people to pick mafia when given the option, but I suppose that what didn't properly occour to me is that the whole alignment slurry situation would have drastically diluted the chances of people ending up as town regardless. but what can I say, I did not have long to adjust my play- but speaking of, I guess it's all the funnier that it was one of my measely few fellow townies who started the push on me. I really am just _that_ bad at coming across well that I can get mislynched in a game where that's literally less likely than not huh

if absolutely nothing else, I suppose the lesson to be taken away here for people aiming to design a mafia game (like, entirely on purpose) is this: don't let multiball mafia turn into the kingmaker scenario of the year for town- if/when I go there next I'll have to think of how to get town invested in swinging at one side or the other at a given time instead of just "everyone has to beat everyone else; you're the only ones who go into this without privileged knowledge".

anyway, good game yall!


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## RedneckPhoenix (Sep 14, 2022)

wow

boring


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## RedneckPhoenix (Sep 14, 2022)

i will admit to being salty about this and also say that herbe is being ignored for at least a few hours


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## RedneckPhoenix (Sep 14, 2022)

why can't i get a normal game as ingroup. why is it always fucked


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## RedneckPhoenix (Sep 14, 2022)

...wait. if herbe "cannot be protected from effects that would kill you" wouldn't I be able to just kill herbe since the roleblock couldn't protect them.

i'm going back to work.


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## RedneckPhoenix (Sep 14, 2022)

RedneckPhoenix said:


> wow
> 
> boring


boring as in the outcome not the game you did great qenya


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## RedneckPhoenix (Sep 14, 2022)

qenya said:


> yeah... I was worried the vote thievery would end up being too far over the top (since I originally wrote it expecting you to be working alone, Herbe) but it didn't actually end up affecting anything. in fact I think the two of you actually ended up underpowered compared to the Pearl Clan
> 
> underpowered
> 
> *underpowered*


sorry, what?


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## RedneckPhoenix (Sep 14, 2022)

herbe had 3 power roles and jack had 1-2, right. are we looking at the same rolecards


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## Zero Moment (Sep 14, 2022)

I can't believe I went and used my oneshot healing power on RNP and he went around and backstabbed me


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## qenya (Sep 14, 2022)

RedneckPhoenix said:


> herbe had 3 power roles and jack had 1-2, right. are we looking at the same rolecards


the conspiracy didn't help them at all (actually it was more of a hindrance since it was straightforward to narrow down who had it) and the vote thievery didn't end up getting used, so really all they had going for them was a roleblock+poisoning which had to be carried out on the same person. pretty in line with other 2-person factions imo?



M&F said:


> if absolutely nothing else, I suppose the lesson to be taken away here for people aiming to design a mafia game (like, entirely on purpose) is this: don't let multiball mafia turn into the kingmaker scenario of the year for town- if/when I go there next I'll have to think of how to get town invested in swinging at one side or the other at a given time instead of just "everyone has to beat everyone else; you're the only ones who go into this without privileged knowledge".


yeah, it's tricky. to some extent I think it may be unavoidable - if you have at least three distinct wincons, then it's inherently possible for one of them to become unachievable before the other two have been decided. but at the very least I think a good principle to follow would be that the less informed a faction is, the more members it should get. if I were actually trying to design a normal game, even with two scum factions I would be aiming for around two-thirds townies.


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## qenya (Sep 14, 2022)

RedneckPhoenix said:


> ...wait. if herbe "cannot be protected from effects that would kill you" wouldn't I be able to just kill herbe since the roleblock couldn't protect them.


I don't think the "Macho" modifier usually prevents killing night actions from being blocked or redirected, it just renders things like doctors and bodyguards ineffective


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## RedneckPhoenix (Sep 14, 2022)

yeah but a) we only had one actually useful role and b) our wincon was to be the last ones standing, not to just kill one specific player

plus herbe had a villager rolecard that wasn't part of the villagers faction and foxes had a card of a character who's not a villager or in the game at all actually but was a villager and was this revenge for frenzy plant. i feel like this is revenge for frenzy plant


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## RedneckPhoenix (Sep 14, 2022)

it's just a game rnp. just close the tab rnp.


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## haneko (Sep 14, 2022)

it was a fun game even if i was not good at playing it! thank you qenya


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## qenya (Sep 14, 2022)

RedneckPhoenix said:


> yeah but a) we only had one actually useful role and b) our wincon was to be the last ones standing, not to just kill one specific player
> 
> plus herbe had a villager rolecard that wasn't part of the villagers faction and foxes had a card of a character who's not a villager or in the game at all actually but was a villager and was this revenge for frenzy plant. i feel like this is revenge for frenzy plant


i definitely see the parallels! but it wasn't intentional, no. i just found it tough to link roles with flavour... several of them were quite a stretch. though there were others that weren't picked that were a lot more thematically appropriate, like volo, who would've manipulated nightkills and investigation results to trick people into killing each other, or iscan and palina, who could also win together if all other diamond/pearl clan members died.

personally i would just see this as a general feature of mafia games with flavour. an implausible flavourclaim is _less_ likely to be false, because someone who makes it up has a vested interest in it not arousing suspicion, whereas the GM can just do any shit they like. (i guess it could also be WIFOM, but I don't think our metagame has hit the point where that would be a good strategy)


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## Zori (Sep 14, 2022)

qenya said:


> because someone who makes it up has a vested interest in it not arousing suspicion


me in mafia choice mafia 2


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## JackPK (Sep 14, 2022)

qenya said:


> personally i would just see this as a general feature of mafia games with flavour. an implausible flavourclaim is _less_ likely to be false, because someone who makes it up has a vested interest in it not arousing suspicion, whereas the GM can just do any shit they like. (i guess it could also be WIFOM, but I don't think our metagame has hit the point where that would be a good strategy)


relevant note that if y'all look back at my fakeclaims in this game, I was doing a lot of stressing about attempting to make implausible things sound plausible by overexplaining the reasoning... which is not something that existed in my real role PM, my real role PM was very terse about it, so after I fakeclaimed I panicked that I looked more like I was justifying a fakeclaim than reporting a realclaim

don't know if that'll ever be relevant again in future games but it's worth perhaps keeping in the back of one's head, balancing the difference between what's plausible versus what's implausible in a GM way versus what's overexplained-to-justify-plausibility in a fakeclaim way


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## JackPK (Sep 14, 2022)

all of which, of course, boils down to WIFOM as you said kate


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## Eifie (Sep 14, 2022)

stop doing setup spec dot mp3


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## M&F (Sep 14, 2022)

yeah, it's like -- I don't think it's an inherently invalid line of inquiry, but you can't really be 100% sure you have the GM's number any more than you do the players'. it's something you can take into consideration but it should seldom be the single or foremost thing that your decision is based on. (plus, as has been extensively pointed out, you also need to not just lather up a Lynch All Liars frenzy where if the GM "lies" someone also gets it; you have to weigh whether lying about flavor actually benefits the player in some way in this situation if they do turn out to be scum.)

as with all manner of setup speculation, really -- I'm not of the mindset that it's absolutely useless, but if you could scumhunt _just_ by unraveling the setup, then you're not playing a well-designed game.


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