# Forum Revival TV Tropes Mafia Revival - D7



## Butterfree

The sun sets upon Troperville.

Something strange is in the air. You can all feel it as you retreat to your beds. Tonight, Someone Dies... probably.

*The night phase has begun. Please submit your night actions via PM to Butterfree. You should all have received your role PMs; if you did not, please contact me ASAP.

The day phase will begin on April 10th, 00:00 UTC. Do not post in the thread during the night phase.*




Spoiler: Game rules



- Players may only post during the day phase, unless specifically told otherwise by the Game Master.
- You may not communicate about the game with any other player outside of the game thread, unless a communication from the Game Master specifically tells you that you may communicate privately with someone in particular.
- Dead players may not post or privately communicate about the game with any living player, even if their role was previously allowed to.
- You may not quote or screenshot your role PM, but you may claim your role and explain what your role PM says in any amount of detail - the problem with significant quotes is the potential for _proving_ a claim on a level that goes against the spirit of the game, by providing e.g. specific phrasing about alignment that players could match to specific phrasing in their own role PMs, or something similar. So it would be perfectly kosher to say "I'm a Vigilante Man with the power Guns Akimbo and my role PM states that I can use my power on odd-numbered nights and that it'll only work on players with three-word power tropes" - you could be telling the truth but you also could just as well be making it up.
- During the day discussion, you can vote for a player at any time by typing the player's username in *bold*. You can change your vote at any time by bolding another name instead. If you want to erase your vote altogether, you can write *unvote* in bold.
- Abstaining (no lynching) is allowed. To vote to abstain, write *abstain* in bold.
- Day discussion always runs to the deadline; there is no "hammering" or such mechanics that can prematurely end the day.
- Flavor text may be relevant.
- There may be shenanigans.





Spoiler: Player/flip list



@Negrek - killed N3, *not mafia*
@Keldeo - killed D5, *not mafia*.
@JackPK - killed N0, *not mafia*
@Flora - killed D8, *mafia*
@I liek Squirtles - killed D1, *not mafia*
@kyeugh
@Ottercopter - killed N9, *not mafia*
@M&F - killed D5, *mafia*
@Mist1422 - killed D6, *not mafia*
@Eifie - killed N2, *not mafia*
@RedneckPhoenix - killed D4, *not mafia*
@Panini
@kokorico - killed D5, *not mafia*
@Boquise - killed N1, *not mafia*
@Seshas
@Stryke - killed N5, *not mafia*
@mewtini - killed D9, *not mafia*
@Mr. Ultracool - killed N7, *not mafia*
@IndigoEmmy
@rari_teh - killed N4, *not mafia*
@Mawile - killed D3, *mafia*
@Odie_Pie - killed D2, *not mafia*
@serimachi - killed N8, *not mafia*
@Herbe - killed D7, *mafia*
@Vipera Magnifica - killed N6, *not mafia*





Spoiler: Game summary



*N0*
*JackPK* was killed. He was *not mafia*.

*D1*
*I liek Squirtles* was killed. He was *not mafia*.

*N1*
*Boquise* was killed. He was *not mafia*.

*D2*
*Odie_Pie* was killed. She was *not mafia*.

*N2*
*Eifie* was killed. She was *not mafia*.

*D3*
*Mawile* was killed. He was *mafia*.

*N3*
*Negrek* was killed. She was *not mafia*.

*D4*
*RedneckPhoenix* was killed. He was *not mafia*.

*N4*
*rari_teh* was killed. She was *not mafia*.

*D5*
*kokorico* was killed. E was *not mafia*.
*Keldeo* was killed. He was *not mafia*.
*M&F* was killed. She was *mafia*.

*N5*
*Stryke* was killed. He was *not mafia*.

*D6*
*Mist1422* was killed. They were *not mafia*.

*N6*
*Vipera Magnifica* was killed. He was *not mafia*.

*D7*
*Herbe* was killed. He was *mafia*.

*N7*
*Mr. Ultracool* was killed. He was *not mafia*.

*D8*
*Flora* was killed. They were *mafia*.

*N8*
*serimachi* was killed. He was *not mafia*.

*D9*
*mewtini* was killed. She was *not mafia*.

*N9*
*Ottercopter* was killed. She was *not mafia*.


----------



## Butterfree

The sun rises slowly over Troperville, and as the residents cautiously gather for what they hope will be a simple headcount, they discover a dead body in their midst.

*JackPK* lies in the middle of the town square, eyes still wide open, staring towards the sky in what seems almost like silent indignation. No one is entirely sure what the cause of death might have been - he's just dead.

Ransacking his house, the townspeople find no weapons, no obvious signs of shady activity.

Not much is clear here, except one thing: they must find the ones who did this and make them pay.

*JackPK is dead. He was not mafia.

You may now post and discuss who to lynch today. Abstaining (no lynching) is allowed. The night phase will begin on April 13th, 0:00 UTC (but extensions may be granted).*



Spoiler: Pinging players



@Negrek
@Keldeo
@JackPK
@Flora
@I liek Squirtles
@kyeugh
@Ottercopter
@M&F
@Mist1422
@Eifie
@RedneckPhoenix
@Panini
@kokorico
@Boquise
@Seshas
@Stryke
@mewtini
@Mr. Ultracool
@IndigoEmmy
@rari_teh
@Mawile
@Odie_Pie
@serimachi
@Herbe
@Vipera Magnifica


----------



## kyeugh

good news guys


----------



## Negrek

Hmm, interesting. Normally I don't put a lot of stock into flavor text, but not sure what to expect for this game. Will be interesting to see in upcoming nights whether there's more of a "mafia" angle to day posts and whether this might actually indicate a non-mafia kill.


----------



## qenya

kyeugh said:


> good news guys


Yeah, I was a bit concerned that the game might go completely off the rails right away, with, like, four people of multiple different factions dying all at once. ;\


----------



## kyeugh

Negrek said:


> Hmm, interesting. Normally I don't put a lot of stock into flavor text, but not sure what to expect for this game. Will be interesting to see in upcoming nights whether there's more of a "mafia" angle to day posts and whether this might actually indicate a non-mafia kill.


kinda doubt this tbh


----------



## Zori

semi-flipless I see
it's probably a game-wide thing because night kills are pretty obviously not mafia unless we have something strange afoot


----------



## Negrek

kokorico said:


> Yeah, I was a bit concerned that the game might go completely off the rails right away, with, like, four people of multiple different factions dying all at once. ;\


I was kind of expecting something crazy, too! This would seem like the game for it.

Although I think it would be hard to top that one MF game where the Mafia managed to kill half the players on the first night.


----------



## Herbe

it's weird, it's almost like the game is starting... like, unnervingly normally, for a game of this size and hype.

I'm already on edge lmao. I definitely feel like things Are Not As They Seem


----------



## Mawile

I was expecting like two deaths minimum or something weird like that, just with the sheer number of people involved. It's kind of oddly relieving to see only one death?


----------



## Zori

Negrek said:


> Hmm, interesting. Normally I don't put a lot of stock into flavor text, but not sure what to expect for this game. Will be interesting to see in upcoming nights whether there's more of a "mafia" angle to day posts and whether this might actually indicate a non-mafia kill.


Are hints in flavor text a thing on this site
because they definitely aren't where I'm from


----------



## Eifie

kyeugh said:


> good news guys


----------



## Mawile

Seshas said:


> Are hints in flavor text a thing on this site
> because they definitely aren't where I'm from


Depends on the game and who's running it, honestly. Some people like it to be Important, so they make it relevant, and others don't really care much.


----------



## Eifie

Negrek said:


> I was kind of expecting something crazy, too! This would seem like the game for it.
> 
> Although I think it would be hard to top that one MF game where the Mafia managed to kill half the players on the first night.


haha, that was me! good times.


----------



## Eifie

Flavour text is almost certainly relevant this game; it was in the last TV Tropes mafia.

I must wait 11 seconds before performing this action!


----------



## qenya

Seshas said:


> Are hints in flavor text a thing on this site
> because they definitely aren't where I'm from


I skimmed a few old threads before this game started and it seems to happen sometimes, but not all or even most of the time. If I were Butterfree, I would deliberately phrase the flavour text ambiguously as a red herring to get people speculating about whether or not it's meaningful. Which is, in fact, what happened.


----------



## Negrek

Seshas said:


> Are hints in flavor text a thing on this site
> because they definitely aren't where I'm from


Rarely. However, the last time Butterfree ran a version of this game, it was a particularly wild setup (and I believe there was some kind of twist?). Like I said, generally it means nothing, but I'm expecting the unexpected here, heh.


----------



## Keldeo

Greetings, fellow innocents! I'm obviously not a member of any shady criminal enterprise plotting to take over this town, nor am I a werewolf, so I am typing this post with human hands that definitely do not have any blood on them!



Seshas said:


> Are hints in flavor text a thing on this site
> because they definitely aren't where I'm from


As a definite human person, I can tell you that most "traditional TCoDf" games are alignment-flips only, and it's possible but not guaranteed that flavor text means anything!


----------



## kyeugh

kokorico said:


> If I were Butterfree, I would deliberately phrase the flavour text ambiguously as a red herring to get people speculating about whether or not it's meaningful.


agreed that even if the flavor text ever means anything, it's probably doing this half the time too


----------



## kyeugh

Keldeo said:


> Greetings, fellow innocents! I'm obviously not a member of any shady criminal enterprise plotting to take over this town, nor am I a werewolf, so I am typing this post with human hands that definitely do not have any blood on them!


oh yeah?  post a screenshot of your role pm.


----------



## Mawile

Negrek said:


> (and I believe there was some kind of twist?)


I don't remember the exact details, but everything went off the rails really quickly. I also got (literally!) backstabbed in that game >:(



Keldeo said:


> As a definite human person,


Hello fellow human-shaped being! It is good to see that your human, blood-free hands are functioning properly. Like a human.


----------



## Herbe

I'm proud to report that my hands have all their blood stored safely inside them! No contaminated outside-blood here.


----------



## Eifie

y'all saying flavour text probably doesn't mean anything/is super red-herring-y gotta go do your homework and read the old tv tropes mafia

or do you need spoilers to have known all the stuff the flavour was pointing at. idk. it def was though.


----------



## Herbe

even if flavor text Does tell us stuff... i just feel like there wasn't a ton of info there for last night? I mean, maybe it's weird that his body was just smack in the middle of town square. but when does that edge over into overanalysing? I know we don't have a lot to go on, considering it's D1, but still.

speaking of... we got a goal today? cause with such a lack of info (whether that be from the one, nondescript death, or from investigators not having enough time to work) I don't see us necessarily lynching someone today. unless someone wants to come in and make money moves?


----------



## Herbe

on second thought, we have plenty of time to discuss, maybe it's too soon to call.


----------



## Eifie

I volunteer to be lynched!


----------



## Mawile

uh


----------



## Keldeo

Eifie, on a scale from "casual Discord mafia game" to "serious business," how seriously are you taking this game? :d

I remember SOP in a game this big usually just being to abstain until we have any information, but now we have new scumhunting techniques or something, so maybe we can figure something out.



kyeugh said:


> oh yeah?  post a screenshot of your role pm.


No, I'm a Rule-Abiding Rebel!



Negrek said:


> Hmm, interesting. Normally I don't put a lot of stock into flavor text, but not sure what to expect for this game. Will be interesting to see in upcoming nights whether there's more of a "mafia" angle to day posts and whether this might actually indicate a non-mafia kill.


Oh, and if you're referring to the "Ransacking his house, the townspeople find no weapons, no obvious signs of shady activity" line, I think that might just be a reference to Jack not being mafia?


----------



## mewtini

just poking my head in so as to not be inactive!flagged, but as someone who is only peripherally familiar with tcodf mafia, i’m also a) relieved to see that only one person was lost (kind of expected it to be bloodier?) and b) agree with keldeo that i think the most Solid part of the flavortext was just that jack wasn’t mafia. other than that i feel like a lot of it read red-herring-like? :T


----------



## Keldeo

Have you had any mafia experience on other sites, Mewtini? :0


----------



## Negrek

> Oh, and if you're referring to the "Ransacking his house, the townspeople find no weapons, no obvious signs of shady activity" line, I think that might just be a reference to Jack not being mafia?


Yeah, could read either as "no sign that he was Mafia" or "no sign of foul play."


----------



## Eifie

Keldeo said:


> Eifie, on a scale from "casual Discord mafia game" to "serious business," how seriously are you taking this game? :d


game? _game?!_ this is a matter of life and death!


----------



## mewtini

Keldeo said:


> Have you had any mafia experience on other sites, Mewtini? :0


i’ve played here but i wasn’t as involved as others. other than that just irl a few times :’)) definitely nothing as Crazy as this


----------



## mewtini

Negrek said:


> Yeah, could read either as "no sign that he was Mafia" or "no sign of foul play."


i thought about this too, but at least imo it seems to require some more mental gymnastics to read it as the latter? idk. i think “weapons” could go either way but it hinges on “shady activity” (which read more to me with a salem witch hunt vibe, but i could ofc see it going in the other direction too) ..,


----------



## Eifie

why is everyone reacting with silly hearts to my gruff and serious postings


----------



## kyeugh

i mean i think killing someone is foul play regardless of whether the mafia does it.  to me the description would sooner suggest a ninja or something but that's kind of reaching


----------



## Eifie

I personally am in my element when surrounded by corpses and blood. Ooh, death...


----------



## Mawile

Eifie said:


> I personally am in my element when surrounded by corpses and blood. Ooh, death...


There was a corpse! But I think all the blood is still inside it.


----------



## mewtini

kyeugh said:


> i mean i think killing someone is foul play regardless of whether the mafia does it.  to me the description would sooner suggest a ninja or something but that's kind of reaching


mostly i meant that i thought the house-ransacking didn't volunteer info having to do with the killing itself. the description that suggested a non-mafia kill to me was just that it was, like, bloodless or w/e


----------



## kyeugh

the whole description is weird but like ultimately someone still died and we don't know why the description is the way it is so i don't know why it would suggest third party over scum

like he is still.  very much dead.  whether it was by scum or not the flavor is still weird


----------



## Negrek

Yeah, I was more connecting it to the fact that the cause of death was unclear (e.g. not obviously shot or anything), so perhaps it was a death from some kind of power backfire, overdose, etc. rather than a traditional nightkill. But again, I would want to see how other day-texts were handled before trying to draw any actual conclusions, if even then.


----------



## Zori

are N0 Mafia kills TCoD normal


----------



## kyeugh

hmmm, yeah, backfire is possible for sure, although you'd still expect, like...  if jack was a killing role attempting to kill a redirecter, you'd think the flavor would reflect him killing himself by whatever means he normally would right?  like regardless of alignment the only way even that makes sense flavor-wise is if he himself has a power that allows him to kill silently (ie ninja)


----------



## kyeugh

tbh it reads like a poison kill or something but given that it is d1 that does not really make sense


Seshas said:


> are N0 Mafia kills TCoD normal


i would say so yeah


----------



## Mawile

Seshas said:


> are N0 Mafia kills TCoD normal


I think it's more common than not.


----------



## Herbe

Negrek said:


> perhaps it was a death from some kind of power backfire


The flavor said that we have to "find the ones who did this and make them pay." That leads me to believe that someone attacked JackPK with intent, and that it wasn't an accident. Also, if we want to scrutinize the word "ones" instead of "one," that means this kill is probably factional.

Conjecture? Maybe, but there's my two cents.


----------



## Eifie

Mawile said:


> There was a corpse! But I think all the blood is still inside it.


Oh. We'll need to fix that.


----------



## kyeugh

Herbe said:


> The flavor said that we have to "find the ones who did this and make them pay." That leads me to believe that someone attacked JackPK with intent, and that it wasn't an accident. Also, if we want to scrutinize the word "ones" instead of "one," that means this kill is probably factional.
> 
> Conjecture? Maybe, but there's my two cents.


this is way too far into the weeds imo


----------



## kyeugh

Eifie said:


> Oh. We'll need to fix that.


didn't get enough violence when you killed him so now you're coming back for more, eh?  i'm disgusted by scum like you


----------



## Novae

good evening y’all 

I’m planning on watching the first Pokémon movie so I’ll be around more tomorrow


----------



## Herbe

fair I guess kyeugh, I admit there's straw-grasping afoot


----------



## mewtini

Negrek said:


> so perhaps it was a death from some kind of power backfire, overdose, etc. rather than a traditional nightkill. But again, I would want to see how other day-texts were handled before trying to draw any actual conclusions, if even then.


neg did a better job saying what i was thinking. obviously this is all early-stage ... :')


Herbe said:


> The flavor said that we have to "find the ones who did this and make them pay." That leads me to believe that someone attacked JackPK with intent, and that it wasn't an accident. Also, if we want to scrutinize the word "ones" instead of "one," that means this kill is probably factional.
> 
> Conjecture? Maybe, but there's my two cents.


i really think that this flavortext is just a classic "Oh boy! Town vs. mafia!" setup such that at least idrk if it signifies anything


----------



## Novae

sike apparently that’s happening tomorrow not today
so I’m here for a few minutes ig


----------



## Eifie

kyeugh said:


> didn't get enough violence when you killed him so now you're coming back for more, eh?  i'm disgusted by scum like you


you think I do my own killing? how crass...


----------



## Novae

oh yeah and by obligation

dog


----------



## Eifie

Mist1422 said:


> oh yeah and by obligation
> 
> dog


dog!!!


----------



## Zori

*kyeugh*

I'm off for the night soon so bye


----------



## Eifie

Ooh, voting!

*Keldeo*!!!


----------



## Herbe

*abstain* until further notice


----------



## Mawile

Wait, why are we voting so early? The day phase only started like two hours ago.


----------



## Eifie

smh


----------



## Herbe

ill be honest i feel the same way mawile, i just wanted to counter the lynch-train, i think it's far too early


----------



## mewtini

Mawile said:


> Wait, why are we voting so early? The day phase only started like two hours ago.


was wondering the same. also an early *abstain *until ... conversation actually begins for real


----------



## Flora

oh whoops I! was playing animal crossing and suddenly three pages of posts

yeah it's! very strange that only one person died in this gigundo mafia game. unless there's, like, multiple scum factions and all but one opted to not murder? mafia is confusion

also, whoa, way too early to lynch, why this


----------



## Keldeo

Early voting is a thing on forums that Seshas et al. come from, and *Eifie* is just joking.

Eifie, Herbe, kyeugh, and mewtini seem relaxed!


----------



## Eifie

man I got a notif that Keldeo hearted my post and I was like "haha get a load of this guy hearting my vote on him" but then it turned out he was hearting some other post so now I'm disappointed


----------



## Eifie

Keldeo said:


> Early voting is a thing on forums that Seshas et al. come from, and *Eifie* is just joking.
> 
> Eifie, Herbe, kyeugh, and mewtini seem relaxed!


excuse you, I would never joke about such a serious matter.


----------



## Eifie

not that I'm playing the game, but hypothetically if I was playing the game and had to pick someone to call town right now, it'd be Herbe, but luckily I'm not playing the game and will continue to do so, or not do so.


----------



## Keldeo

Eifie said:


> excuse you, I would never joke about such a serious matter.


My God, You Are Serious!


----------



## Herbe

I have to admit I'm thoroughly enjoying the eifmemery


----------



## Mawile

I feel some emotion for the people who come to this thread later and have to read four pages of day 1 nonsense.


----------



## Eifie

by the way, Herbie is Barfie's child's name. he's a good boy.


----------



## Herbe

hypothetically, I might thank eifie if she were playing the game, but since she isn't, I'll just have to send good vibes in someone's general direction :>


----------



## Vipera Magnifica

Hmm... kinda weird I didn't automatically absorb JackPK's role, since I was given the role of taking over the role and power of the first non-mafia player to die.

Maybe, just maybe JackPK isn't truly dead. I think we should lynch *JackPK* just to make sure.


----------



## Eifie

Vipera Magnifica said:


> Hmm... kinda weird I didn't automatically absorb JackPK's role, since I was given the role of taking over the role and power of the first non-mafia player to die.
> 
> Maybe, just maybe JackPK isn't truly dead. I think we should lynch *JackPK* just to make sure.


I wouldn't be surprised if he isn't actually dead given the content of the Dies Wide Open trope bfree linked!


----------



## Herbe

Interesting! So Jack is either a) playing us fools and not dead or b) self-aligned/third party. 
I did notice that the death flip was "not mafia," not "not scum." I know games that have had that as an important difference, but idk if it's relevant here.


----------



## Herbe

Or maybe a third option I'm not thinking of! Quite interesting though either way. 

Sure, *JackPK.* Why the hell not.


----------



## kyeugh

Herbe said:


> Interesting! So Jack is either a) playing us fools and not dead or b) self-aligned/third party.
> I did notice that the death flip was "not mafia," not "not scum." I know games that have had that as an important difference, but idk if it's relevant here.


i dont know what the difference between these things is


Vipera Magnifica said:


> Hmm... kinda weird I didn't automatically absorb JackPK's role, since I was given the role of taking over the role and power of the first non-mafia player to die.
> 
> Maybe, just maybe JackPK isn't truly dead. I think we should lynch *JackPK* just to make sure.


 your mind


----------



## kyeugh

oh wait i just skimmed that post and assumed it was a joke based on the end


----------



## Herbe

kyeugh said:


> i dont know what the difference between these things is


if there's an explicit mafia faction, and then a seperate, evil faction that doesn't work like mafia, they'd both be scum but the second one would be not mafia
dunno if thats the case here but i guess we need more info


----------



## Novae

*Keldeo*

for glory


----------



## kyeugh

this is nice information. if vm is telling the truth maybe jack was godfather or something? maybe he was a third party killer who was redirected on himself? i don’t really think we should lynch him since i think it’s most likely that nothing happens in that case


----------



## Eifie

btw I saw people asking for screenshots of role PMs so here's mine


----------



## Herbe

Vipera Magnifica said:


> Hmm... kinda weird I didn't automatically absorb JackPK's role, since I was given the role of taking over the role and power of the first non-mafia player to die.
> 
> Maybe, just maybe JackPK isn't truly dead. I think we should lynch *JackPK* just to make sure.


Wait, I'm dumb, your power said non-mafia and not "town," and jack flipped not mafia. So for all intents and purposes you should have his role right? Weird things afoot but I retract my "third party" statement


----------



## kyeugh

Eifie said:


> btw I saw people asking for screenshots of role PMs so here's mine


bfree did not modkill you therefore this is fake. nice try, you lying filth


----------



## mewtini

Herbe said:


> Wait, I'm dumb, your power said non-mafia and not "town," and jack flipped not mafia. So for all intents and purposes you should have his role right? Weird things afoot but I retract my "third party" statement


i think this is why there's conversation about jackpk not even being dead


----------



## mewtini

let's just take his pulse smfh. ez


----------



## M&F

yeah, I'm with everyone who's surprised to see such a potentially janky game off to such an ostensibly normal start; but I assume nothing -- especially with a death that, flavoristically, sounds very third party-ish, unless we're to expect a Pstandard Psychic Pstance when we do lynch a mafiosx

unless we're maybe dealing with a set of Psycho Rangers and one of them is an Evil Genius I guess? that, or a Gratuitous Ninja really did carry out this night's attack, at the behest of Chandler's Law. or maybe an Almighty Janitor swooped in and wiped out the clues, although it'd be strange for us to be getting an alignment flip still...

unless, UNLESS. the lack of any indications of death is meant to validate VM's supposition that Jack isn't really dead. but it'd be tough to verify such a thing, even if we do follow along with the lynching plan.

eh, nonetheless, it'd be marginally more productive than abstaining, so I'll keep my chips on *JackPK* for now

(also, if reading all the messages up to here wasn't bad enough for others, have fun with all those life-draining links-)


----------



## kyeugh

i’d sooner assume vm’s power is somehow being suppressed than i would anything about weird life states


----------



## mewtini

kyeugh said:


> i’d sooner assume vm’s power is somehow being suppressed than i would anything about weird life states


yes i should clarify that this is what i actually believe, i was getting a little loopy before


----------



## Eifie

I kinda think Jack just has powers that activate once he dies like Claire did in the previous TV Tropes game and it's an exception or something to VM's claimed powers


----------



## Eifie

by which I mean I'm still not actually playing the game good night bye


----------



## kyeugh

hm yeah that kinda tracks. can you tell me more about what happened with claire


----------



## M&F

M&F said:


> or maybe an Almighty Janitor swooped in and wiped out the clues, although it'd be strange for us to be getting an alignment flip still...
> 
> unless, UNLESS. the lack of any indications of death is meant to validate VM's supposition that Jack isn't really dead. but it'd be tough to verify such a thing, even if we do follow along with the lynching plan.


incidentally, since I sort of lost my train of thought back there, I'm specifically theorizing these two things in tandem -- that Jack would've flipped something more ostensibly janky if not for the invervention of a janitor, or perhaps that the appearance of there being a death at all is the trick (although it'd be a pretty unusual trick if it's not to be foiled immediately by Jack just up and posting something today). all of this is far out there, I know, but this ain't a normal game, probably


----------



## kyeugh

wtf no get back here!!! you know you want to


----------



## kyeugh

M&F said:


> incidentally, since I sort of lost my train of thought back there, I'm specifically theorizing these two things in tandem -- that Jack would've flipped something more ostensibly janky if not for the invervention of a janitor, or perhaps that the appearance of there being a death at all is the trick (although it'd be a pretty unusual trick if it's not to be foiled immediately by Jack just up and posting something today). all of this is far out there, I know, but this ain't a normal game, probably


 do you think it’s plausible that a janitor might nullify any powers/actions related to their target? aside from the mafia nightkill ofc

i do find it kind of unlikely that a limited-shot janitor would spend a charge n0


----------



## Eifie

kyeugh said:


> hm yeah that kinda tracks. can you tell me more about what happened with claire


no I'm gone

it was something like, I think she died and flipped town? she died with a big smile on her face or a triumphant expression or something. and then once she was dead she became the feared Trope Killer! she was... idk if mafia or an independent, but she could kill people by writing down their tropes. similar to anti-claim if you're familiar with that. I think she had one kill per night and could stack them

bfeee couldn't reuse that role and the flavour for Jack's death is different but it feels like it could be something close to that?


----------



## Eifie

here's where Claire died in that game. ignore the blood coming out of her ears; that's because she was killed by a role who could kill people by saying "fuck you" to them in the thread.


----------



## Mawile

I hope this game doesn't hurt my head as much as the last instance did.


----------



## M&F

ah, a name killer, huh

but yeah, that would track; come to think of it, there's bunches of powers that don't transfer to backup, and that goes double for post-death powers. at least, that's a good deal more plausible than what I was getting at anyway

hmmm, I wonder if I should spitball some other kinds of roles that tend not to transfer to backup... but man, it's been too long since last I did any mafia


----------



## kyeugh

so if we assume jack isn’t fully dead and will come back to life later, would lynching him in his current ostensibly dead state even... do anything? my instinct is that he is functionally dead until he isn’t


----------



## kyeugh

Eifie said:


> here's where Claire died in that game. ignore the blood coming out of her ears; that's because she was killed by a role who could kill people by saying "fuck you" to them in the thread.


ty for this link and the explanation!


----------



## Eifie

kyeugh said:


> so if we assume jack isn’t fully dead and will come back to life later, would lynching him in his current ostensibly dead state even... do anything? my instinct is that he is functionally dead until he isn’t


I don't know if I expect him to come to life later but I do agree that trying to lynch him seems pointless because he's probably mechanically dead for the moment.

I really am going to sleep now, try not to miss me too much


----------



## M&F

probably not, but again, marginally more productive than abstaining

at least unless I come across something even more productive to do on this day, naturally


----------



## Negrek

Wow, so reading that previous thread is definitely reinforcing my suspicions over the lack of gore in this day's update post. :P

Whether Jack's going to revive or start doing spooky things from beyond the grave, he did at some point die, since he procced my own ability to learn the tropes of players who die (he was a Deadly Doctor). So I have no idea why someone else's death-triggered power wouldn't have activated last night.


----------



## Eifie

man since my online status is showing you can all see when I swear I'm going to bed and then check the thread a few minutes later


----------



## Ottercopter

My first thought about JackPK's death was poison, then maybe the fake death thing like everyone else was saying. Not much else to say for now?


----------



## Herbe

I was just voting him for the meme tbh. i know that voting for jack is probably functionally the same as abstaining


----------



## M&F

Negrek said:


> Wow, so reading that previous thread is definitely reinforcing my suspicions over the lack of gore in this day's update post. :P
> 
> Whether Jack's going to revive or start doing spooky things from beyond the grave, he did at some point die, since he procced my own ability to learn the tropes of players who die (he was a Deadly Doctor). So I have no idea why someone else's death-triggered power wouldn't have activated last night.


that sure is a claim and a half!

the trope given doesn't sound innocent to me, but it could just as easily be a nurse or other healing-with-drawback type of role; regardless, though, those do normally transfer to backup! so yeah, the lack of apparent foul play being indicative of foul play is sounding likelier to me, although it also is just possible that either VM or Negrek are lying to us

and if it came to that, well, Negrek's statement is a good deal more plausible


----------



## Mawile

Huh. If he was a Deadly Doctor, then maybe he was a vigilante with some kind of killing method that results in just dying suddenly(??), and it got used against him somehow?


----------



## mewtini

Negrek said:


> So I have no idea why someone else's death-triggered power wouldn't have activated last night.


roleblock?


----------



## Eifie

hmm I actually bothered to read the flavour instead of just skimming and I think the look of indignation on Jack's face is probably important

Deadly Doctor sounds to me the like doctor role that has a 50% chance of being a kill instead of a heal, or the role that only heals the target if they're actually attacked, and otherwise it kills them

also personally I was not expecting much n0. last time with 50 people there was only 1 death and it was only interesting because a mafia died due to bodyguard (and the flavour strongly implied something like this). I wouldn't expect a lot of n0 deaths because dying before the game even starts is pretty shitty


----------



## Negrek

Yeah, depending on how it worked. The way VM described his role, it sounded like it's something that wouldn't count as an action (happens automatically, doesn't target), which I would generally not expect to be roleblockable. But it could go either way.


----------



## mewtini

Eifie said:


> I think the look of indignation on Jack's face is probably important


yeah i think this was the bit of flavortext we all kind of ignored (in favor of dies wide open). this tracks with the backfire theory, kind of? either malevolently or benevolently


----------



## Zori

kyeugh said:


> do you think it’s plausible that a janitor might nullify any powers/actions related to their target? aside from the mafia nightkill ofc
> 
> i do find it kind of unlikely that a limited-shot janitor would spend a charge n0


If the janitor gets info on the killed person's role (which it would be kind of dumb otherwise), then N0 is the perfect time to kill someone and obscure their claim
it's certainly better than killing someone who already claimed on a previous day


----------



## Stryke

I opened this thread, hit jump to new, started to read, and then next thing I knew I was at the end and 3 minutes had passed. I have retained nothing I have read here tonight. I am going to go on record and agree with whatever the person above me said unless it is controversial in which case I do not. Thank you ladies and gentlemen and good night.


----------



## Zori

Jack was killed by Mafia => A Mafia-aligned Janitor exists => Negrek is probably Mafia
Negrek is Town => Jack was probably killed by 3p

*unvote*
I originally voted because I thought kyeugh's tone regarding the flavor discussion was fake, but upon rereading it was probably just confbias


----------



## Zori

If the kill was obscured in some way, there's a chance that Vipera just can't get abilities from clean-kills


----------



## Zori

fwiw unvote if you don't know who to vote
abstain if you think it would be beneficial not to lynch anyone today


----------



## Zori

I'm leaning Jack not killed by mafia, purely because of the nature of the flavor discussion
I'm going to actually go to bed soonTM


----------



## kyeugh

Seshas said:


> If the janitor gets info on the killed person's role (which it would be kind of dumb otherwise), then N0 is the perfect time to kill someone and obscure their claim
> it's certainly better than killing someone who already claimed on a previous day


huh i’ve never seen a janitor that receives information about their target’s role but a quick google confirms it’s a thing if that was indeed the case here then what you’re saying def tracks tbh

side note i don’t think negrek would claim to receive information on every dead player if they were indeed relying on information from x-shot janitor powers as their lie would be exposed as soon as they ran out of charges


----------



## Zori

ignore me I'm dumb I thought full roleflips or alignment flips were a thing
given flips are just mafia or not mafia, there's no reason for a janitor to exist, except for maybe a flavor janitor
which would be kind of underpowered probably


----------



## kyeugh

Eifie said:


> Deadly Doctor sounds to me the like doctor role that has a 50% chance of being a kill instead of a heal, or the role that only heals the target if they're actually attacked, and otherwise it kills them


admittedly i don’t really know jack’s meta but if either of these are true i can’t imagine why he would use his power n0 unless he was required to


----------



## kyeugh

ok i am past due to go to bed gn


----------



## Keldeo

Non-mechanically, I generally like, uhhh... most people's tone. kyeugh in particular, I guess, especially the "wait, don't go!" to Eifie. kyeugh/Seshas/Herbe/MF felt kinda legit in trying to figure out the mechanical thing. Eifie's early game memeing and repeated "going to bed for real, wait just one more thing" seemed pretty earnest, and it's really early but it matches what I know of her town game better than how I think she'd be playing this as mafia, so that's probably my strongest lean right now. Anyone else have thoughts on people outside of the mechanics?

Mechanically, not entirely sure what to make of the claims... There's something weird going on for sure. (cue Mock Surprise Reaction) 

I think the possibilities are:
(1) Jack "died" for the purposes of Negrek's power, but not for the purposes of VM's power, for some reason
(2) Jack died, but he is not actually "not mafia", he just revealed that way for some reason (but I don't know why he'd die if he was mafia... the mafia shot was blocked, and there's some town killing role out there, too? Some sort of conversion?)
(3) Jack died and is not mafia, but his power can't be taken by VM's power - VM, can you ask if there are any exceptions? 
(4) Someone is lying  

Option (3) with Jack having some post-death role (maybe he's a literal death doctor who can only doctor people from the grave?!) seems like the likeliest to me right now given what Eifie said about Claire's role last time. 

*Unvote Eifie, vote Mr. Ultracool* - hi, how's it going! Any thoughts on the game so far?

(As an aside: On the one other Xenforo forum I've played mafia, they only have a "like" react and it's banned in mafia games! It's been so fun to just heart people's posts.)


----------



## Mawile

Personally, I'm wondering if VM has some precise wording or other conditions in his role PM that he didn't bring up, because it's weird to supposedly have a power that gives you the power of the first non-mafia person to die and then not get that power. 

Based on how bizarre the last instance of this game was, though, I honestly wouldn't rule out Jack having some kind of ability only usable when he dies. Although, then again,


----------



## Mawile

NO I HIT POST INSTEAD OF TYPING MORE

Although, then again, in reading the Deadly Doctor tvtropes page, I'm not sure how well a post-death ability would fit that. There's probably more suitable tropes to have in place of Deadly Doctor, if he were to have an ability he can use after he dies.


----------



## Herbe

its 2 am in my timezone, my thinky brain is gone and i can barely parse the english language, im just gonna *unvote* for now before i fall asleep.
im sure i will have Thoughts and Such tomorrow haha


----------



## mewtini

Keldeo said:


> especially the "wait, don't go!" to Eifie.


we just all love eif tbh. <3



Mawile said:


> Personally, I'm wondering if VM has some precise wording or other conditions in his role PM that he didn't bring up, because it's weird to supposedly have a power that gives you the power of the first non-mafia person to die and then not get that power.


if it's *specifically *the first non-mafia person (and we take what's been said so far at face value) then i wonder if this power is even useful after this - or if it allows for the first-non-suppressed circumstance, or something? otherwise vm literally just lost his power lol ... or it was a fake non-mafia flip. idk.



Mawile said:


> Although, then again, in reading the Deadly Doctor tvtropes page, I'm not sure how well a post-death ability would fit that. There's probably more suitable tropes to have in place of Deadly Doctor, if he were to have an ability he can use after he dies.


not much to add here but i agree, i think post-death is stretching it a bit. also as eifie mentioned earlier the "indignant look" still seems more pertinent than we're giving it credit for, and imo it doesn't totally track if we assume there was no backfire and it wasn't something else fishy with the deadly doctor role

tl;dr it's 3am but everything is weird


----------



## mewtini

ok i just reread that and realized none of it made sense heheh. i apologize. gn zzz


----------



## Boquise




----------



## Boquise

Hi tbh. I have read up the game but atm i dont have much concrete thoughts. It is nice to play a role and flavour heavy game again.


----------



## Boquise

Eifie said:


> hmm I actually bothered to read the flavour instead of just skimming and I think the look of indignation on Jack's face is probably important
> 
> Deadly Doctor sounds to me the like doctor role that has a 50% chance of being a kill instead of a heal, or the role that only heals the target if they're actually attacked, and otherwise it kills them
> 
> also personally I was not expecting much n0. last time with 50 people there was only 1 death and it was only interesting because a mafia died due to bodyguard (and the flavour strongly implied something like this). *I wouldn't expect a lot of n0 deaths because dying before the game even starts is pretty shitty*


I didn't expect this coming from you tbh


----------



## Eifie

Boquise said:


> I didn't expect this coming from you tbh


I am of course speaking from the perspective of the Generic Mafia Player ™

give me the sweet release of death. vote eif today


----------



## Eifie

Keldeo has exactly the read on me that I expected him to have, for once. Since I historically wrongly tunnel him every single game, maybe that means he's actually mafia.


----------



## Eifie

did Mr. Ultracool like a bunch of my posts and then not post himself

good stuff. my kind of guy.


----------



## Eifie

Eifie said:


> did Mr. Ultracool like a bunch of my posts and then not post himself
> 
> good stuff. my kind of guy.


(then I looked at the timestamps of the notifs and actually he's probably just reading up)


----------



## Mr. Ultracool

Hi everyone! I'm just butting in to give my two cents about this:



Vipera Magnifica said:


> Hmm... kinda weird I didn't automatically absorb JackPK's role, since *I was given the role of taking over the role and power of the first non-mafia player to die.*


Perhaps we are overlooking something about the circumstances of JackPK's death and Vipera Magnifica's power didn't trigger after his death because he was not the first non-mafia player to die. In many games I played in the past, there has been an role capable of redirecting night actions onto other targets - perhaps we are dealing with one of these here and Jack PK was a member of the mafia instead of now being a member of  the walking dead. As for the alignment reveal, maybe there truly _is_ a tailor after all?


----------



## Eifie

Hi Mr. Ultracool!

oh yeah, for people unfamiliar with how tcodf mafia works that we tend to have mafia-aligned roles that don't know who the mafia is and flip as non-mafia. like terorists and mafia doctors... hey. that would make sense with Jack's indignant look, wouldn't it?!


----------



## Eifie

Eifie said:


> Hi Mr. Ultracool!
> 
> oh yeah, for people unfamiliar with how tcodf mafia works that we tend to have mafia-aligned roles that don't know who the mafia is and flip as non-mafia. like terorists and mafia doctors... hey. that would make sense with Jack's indignant look, wouldn't it?!


that would explain VM's ability not triggering also and make sense with what I vaguely remember from the trope page? maybe?


----------



## Eifie

Keldeo why are you even awake. it's 4 am.


----------



## Keldeo

Oh, that's a good idea! It would be pretty hilarious if Jack was a "lost mafia" who the mafia accidentally killed.


----------



## Keldeo

If they're not lying, do you think the claims mean anything about VM or Negrek's alignments? I feel like if they're telling the truth, both abilities seem villagery, probably VM's more so because Negrek's seems more like a generic info role. It's possible that he's just a universal backup who becomes the alignment of the first person to die, or something. 

I'm not really sure why they'd role reveal so early but also lie, if that's something they're doing - maybe I'm just not Properly Paranoid.


----------



## Eifie

I think early role reveals in the tcodf meta tend to be just town like, 95% of the time, so I'm putting them in like. Probably Just Town For Now, Rethink Later.


----------



## Boquise

Eifie said:


> did Mr. Ultracool like a bunch of my posts and then not post himself
> 
> good stuff. my kind of guy.


He liked my post before it was cool.


----------



## Eifie

Boquise said:


> He liked my post before it was cool.


none of your posts are cool


----------



## Mr. Ultracool

Eifie said:


> I think early role reveals in the tcodf meta tend to be just town like, 95% of the time, so I'm putting them in like. Probably Just Town For Now, Rethink Later.


Maybe it would be hepful if we knew what Trope VM and Negrek had. There's so many that could fit. You kill it, you bought it? (Member of the) Omniscient Council of Vagueness? It's not You, It's Me? Bread, Eggs, Milk, Non- Sequitur?


----------



## Keldeo

Mr. Ultracool said:


> Maybe it would be hepful if we knew what Trope VM and Negrek had. There's so many that could fit. You kill it, you bought it? (Member of the) Omniscient Council of Vagueness? It's not You, It's Me? Bread, Eggs, Milk, Non- Sequitur?


Just my opinion, but I don't think this is needed - it wouldn't surprise me if flavor affected some roles, given the trope killer example from the last time, and at least for me, knowing the trope name wouldn't help me in figuring them out that much (because if it was super suspicious, I'd guess they'd probably just find something else that would be plausible). What do you think about my point without knowing their tropes?


----------



## Mr. Ultracool

Oh, yeah, you're right! I completely forgot about that Trope Killer  As for wether tey are trustworthy, I'd personally think it to be weird for an "investigative" role to claim so early, but that might simply be due to not knowing so much about how this game is played here in TCoD. I mostly played on other sites so far, but there, most of us only ever revealed any information gained from our roles through Hypo- somethings.


----------



## Eifie

Mr. Ultracool said:


> Oh, yeah, you're right! I completely forgot about that Trope Killer  As for wether tey are trustworthy, I'd personally think it to be weird for an "investigative" role to claim so early, but that might simply be due to not knowing so much about how this game is played here in TCoD. I mostly played on other sites so far, but there, most of us only ever revealed any information gained from our roles through Hypo- somethings.


Ooh, can you say a bit more about your previous mafia playing experience?


----------



## Mr. Ultracool

Well, I started playing mafia online about a year ago on another Pokémon forum. Currently, I'm also actively playing on Reddit.


----------



## Eifie

Mr. Ultracool said:


> Well, I started playing mafia online about a year ago on another Pokémon forum. Currently, I'm also actively playing on Reddit.


Ooh, cool! I guess the tcodf meta will probably be weird for you then.


----------



## Mr. Ultracool

How so? I'd like to think that, especially in weird thematic round where no-one knew anything about the possible roles, things got plenty weird. Once, it became crucial to determine in which phase a meteor would react to what word to give extra abilities.


----------



## qenya

Christ, there are already seven pages of posts? How much strategising can you possibly fit into eight hours?

I agree with Mawile and mewtini that a post-death role is just a little too outlandish even for this game. So, going on the assumption that JackPK actually is dead:


Eifie said:


> oh yeah, for people unfamiliar with how tcodf mafia works that we tend to have mafia-aligned roles that don't know who the mafia is and flip as non-mafia. like terorists and mafia doctors... hey. that would make sense with Jack's indignant look, wouldn't it?!


That definitely makes the most sense to me, out of the theories put forward so far. From Negrek's claim, I was initially thinking that JackPK might have had some sort of killing role that presented itself as a doctor when inspected/flipped, but your version works without relying on non-standard roles. (Which, yes, there are likely to be a lot of in this game, but when we don't know what any of them are it doesn't make sense to speculate wildly.)

My second preference goes to the possibility that JackPK was a normal doctor who just happened to target a Perilous Old Fool. Again, neither is an unusual role; it fits with Negrek's claim; and it doesn't require any implausible coincidences beyond which single person was targeted by a single role.



Negrek said:


> Yeah, I was more connecting it to the fact that the cause of death was unclear (e.g. not obviously shot or anything), so perhaps it was a death from some kind of power backfire, overdose, etc. rather than a traditional nightkill. But again, I would want to see how other day-texts were handled before trying to draw any actual conclusions, if even then.


I'm with you on this one. I remember reading a mafia thread on TCoD where one of the mafiosi had a role that let them _affect the flavour text_. So I don't think it's worth putting too much stock into the flavour when we don't have anything to compare it to yet.



Keldeo said:


> If they're not lying, do you think the claims mean anything about VM or Negrek's alignments? I feel like if they're telling the truth, both abilities seem villagery, probably VM's more so because Negrek's seems more like a generic info role. It's possible that he's just a universal backup who becomes the alignment of the first person to die, or something.


I think M&F has it right when they said Negrek's claim was way more plausible than VM's. Negrek is now basically locked into telling us the tropes of everyone who dies, because not doing so would seem suspicious. If he were lying, then all it would take is a single rolecop somewhere in the town to guarantee he would slip up eventually. So it would be either an exceptionally stupid thing to do, or a magnificent bluff.

That's not to say that VM necessarily looks scummy to me - I have no idea, I'm afraid - never interacted with him.


----------



## Eifie

Mr. Ultracool said:


> How so? I'd like to think that, especially in weird thematic round where no-one knew anything about the possible roles, things got plenty weird. Once, it became crucial to determine in which phase a meteor would react to what word to give extra abilities.


Mostly like the culture around lynching and role-claiming and stuff. Since you knew what hypo is it sounds like the forum you played on is probably more hardcore.


----------



## Eifie

kokorico said:


> I agree with Mawile and mewtini that a post-death role is just a little too outlandish even for this game.


Well, there was a pretty significant one in the previous TV Tropes mafia.

In this case I think Jack was probably just a mafia doctor though. lolwolves.


----------



## Mr. Ultracool

Also, does anybody know whether or not communication outside of the game is permitted or not?


----------



## qenya

Mr. Ultracool said:


> Also, does anybody know whether or not communication outside of the game is permitted or not?


Oh, yeah, I was thinking of asking about that too. The rules sticky says it's not "unless otherwise stated", but that's quite old.


----------



## kyeugh

the rules are correct unless i’m very much mistaken


----------



## kyeugh

Mr. Ultracool said:


> Hi everyone! I'm just butting in to give my two cents about this:
> Perhaps we are overlooking something about the circumstances of JackPK's death and Vipera Magnifica's power didn't trigger after his death because he was not the first non-mafia player to die. In many games I played in the past, there has been an role capable of redirecting night actions onto other targets - perhaps we are dealing with one of these here and Jack PK was a member of the mafia instead of now being a member of  the walking dead. As for the alignment reveal, maybe there truly _is_ a tailor after all?


excellent insight. do you reckon vm's power got redirected onto someone else and they absorbed jack's power instead?  that would be hilarious lmao


----------



## Mawile

Eifie said:


> Well, there was a pretty significant one in the previous TV Tropes mafia.


It's like 5 AM here, but you know! Comment anyway!!

My reasoning for it being outlandish wasn't because of the idea of having a post-death ability, it was more of because of Jack's role(?) trope. A Deadly Doctor is assumedly alive in order to administer medicine and/or death, right? Although, then again we only know one of his tropes, what I'm assuming is the role and not the power. In retrospective, he could have had a power trope that allows for his spooky ghost to do whatever Deadly Doctor ghosts do, I guess?

Honestly, I kinda wanna buy into Keldeo's lost mafia theory because that would be kind of hilarious. Although, I also like the idea of VM's power bring redirected and someone else just, seemingly out of the blue being made into Jack's role. But then VM would basically be powerless, unless he gets another chance to back up whoever dies next? Although he did say first non-mafia to die, which doesn't sound like he would get another shot at absorbing someone's role.


----------



## kyeugh

another thing about someone having absorbed jack's role is that either they aren't saying so because they haven't come online yet, or they have some reason to withhold that information (ie they are anti-town) which is not really a good world lol

is there anyone that hasn't spoken still, i can't be fucked checking rn


----------



## Mawile

There's at least a couple, I think. I can't be bothered to cross check 9 pages of posts with the player list from my phone in bed, though.


----------



## kyeugh

glancing at the user list i believe panini, rarie_teh and serimachi have not spoken yet


----------



## Mawile

Hm, I guess with the Reveal that Jack was a Deadly Doctor, though, it might not be super great for someone to come forward with the information if they did absorb it, though? If we run under the assumption that a Deadly Doctor would have some kind of killing and/or healing ability, coming forward and saying that you have that role now could potentially make them a new target for the mafia.


----------



## kyeugh

mm, i kind of feel like at this point the mafia benefits more from keeping a role that has a 50% chance to kill its target alive at this point, esp when we have so little idea who mafia are, and _especially_ if the person with the power is obligated to use it as i'd assume based on the fact that jack fired his n0 fsr. town certainly benefits from that information being public too imo


----------



## kyeugh

kyeugh said:


> _especially_ if the person with the power is obligated to use it as i'd assume based on the fact that jack fired his n0 fsr


or, well, ostensibly i guess.  currently rolling on the assumption that jack died from his own power being reflected


----------



## Mawile

Oh wait, if there's a 50% chance of killing, then never mind my previous statement.


----------



## kyeugh

the 50% chance of killing thing is based on eifie's conjecture anyway.  personally i find something very fishy about a) that being the actual power of the role and b) jack firing n0, unless you are obligated to use the power, in which case... i definitely think town should know about who's holding the role tbh

however it is also likely that is not the power at all!  idrk.  just working with what we have i guess.  at any rate _i_ think it would be best for whoever's holding the power to come forward about it, not just so we can know who's holding the power itself but also so we can try and figure out what all happened last night. but others can feel free to argue me on that


----------



## Mawile

I mean, if it did end up in the hands of someone besides VM, then I agree that it would be beneficial to give a reveal for the sake of figuring out what happened last night. But I still kind of want to err on the side of caution, because if a Deadly Doctor can choose who to kill/heal without potentially accidentally killing them, then it could be risky to reveal that information early. Ultimately, it's up to whoever has that role now (if any), but that's just my opinion.

But then again, this is all running under the assumption that VM's power got redirected and someone got assigned a new role, which could be entirely untrue! We can't really do much more than speculate at this point, though, unless anyone mentions anything new.


----------



## Mawile

I don't know, I just don't really want to lose a vigilante/doctor super early if we can help it, since I feel like those are roles the mafia would want to take out. :/


----------



## Mr. Ultracool

Well, they'd definitely be in danger should they claim. Á propos danger, what would you say about a Hypocop approach, where all players write the results of their investigative actions as though they were a role that had one? That way, the maf doesn't instantly know what person is an investigative role, yet the town knows what they investigated in case they should die whilst triggering that one claimed ability to reveal their role.


----------



## kyeugh

Mawile said:


> I don't know, I just don't really want to lose a vigilante/doctor super early if we can help it, since I feel like those are roles the mafia would want to take out. :/


disagree. an obligate vigilante, even with a 50% success rate, is more destructive to town when information is this low than it is to scum, as the choice is effectively random and randomness favors scum as they’re lower in number


Mr. Ultracool said:


> Well, they'd definitely be in danger should they claim. Á propos danger, what would you say about a Hypocop approach, where all players write the results of their investigative actions as though they were a role that had one? That way, the maf doesn't instantly know what person is an investigative role, yet the town knows what they investigated in case they should die whilst triggering that one claimed ability to reveal their role.


 this sounds ok. you’re suggesting we all hypo claim deadly doctor?


----------



## Mr. Ultracool

No, I'm suggesting that we all claim Great Detective or Evil-Detecting Dog and say, for example, " In N0, I checked JackPK. He was shown to me as a Maf", or something, so that the _real_ Detective can post true results that we can then recognise due to one of us having a role that tells him what role the deceased had.


----------



## Mr. Ultracool

Also, I'm not sure how useful claiming DD or Vigilante would be.  What would that bring us? Maybe I'm missing something?


----------



## kyeugh

i’m not really sure either, which is why i said it seemed ok without saying much else, haha. 

i feel like the whole hypo cop thing would ultimately be kind of confusing given we don’t know the nature of the investigative roles in this game, but information is information i guess. can’t _hurt_...?


----------



## kyeugh

Mr. Ultracool said:


> Also, I'm not sure how useful claiming DD or Vigilante would be.  What would that bring us? Maybe I'm missing something?


wait, you mean like, how useful it would be ifthe actual person who absorbed jack’s powers came forth and said so assuming such a person exists? fairly useful i think seeing as we have no idea what happened last night and are unsure whether jack is even permanently dead


----------



## Mr. Ultracool

If they were indeed absorbed, that would be fantastic, yeah. I just don't get how the Vigilant stating that he's the Vigilante would help.


----------



## Mr. Ultracool

Also, I'd propose towards everyone to make random investigative-ish claims covering a variety of possible infom After all, if we don't know the inv. roles, the maf doesn't either.


----------



## Butterfree

Mr. Ultracool said:


> Also, does anybody know whether or not communication outside of the game is permitted or not?


Private communication between players is only allowed when your role PM (or later GM communication) specifically says that you may communicate privately with someone in particular. Otherwise, all game-related communication should happen in the thread.


----------



## Novae

Good morning

I don't mind leaving my vote on Keldeo for now, just out of gut feelings, though I will admit it's more based on me wanting them to be scum than an actual read


----------



## Novae

Gonna call Seshas town and request that y'all trust me

because meta:tm:


----------



## Zori

I don't see the benefit of hypocopping when there's no role flips tbh


----------



## Zori

I have some spoopy info that suggests that Mafia have a say in the death flavor
would be more precise but idk if that's legal


----------



## Mr. Ultracool

Does the spoopy info come from your role?


----------



## serimachi

Hi, guys. First time player here.

Obviously Eifie is acting incredibly suspicious, and this isn't her first rodeo. Hypotheses (in order of how likely I think they are):

She's an alien, or some other role that benefits by being lynched
She's just acting in character for a trope, or this is just her regular sense of humor
She's wants us to _think_ she is so obviously an alien or some other role that benefits from being lynched, so that we don't lynch her
Something I'm missing or misunderstanding about the game
If she's not distributing powers completely randomly, I think we should also consider that Butterfree might give the most powerful/important/interesting roles to experienced players or people she trusts, so as to keep the game interesting. This casts a little more doubt on Eifie and the likes of Negrek, mewtini, and other long-time forum go-ers. It's likely that one of them is the boss of the mafia.

I really have no idea about the death or the circumstances of the death, those are just my thoughts so far. I agree that based on the flavour text, JackPK doesn't seem like Mafia. 

Also, I didn't count on how it would genuinely make a part of me feel gross to vote on people to kill!   I'll *abstain* based on no good grounds to suspect anyone, unless someone explains to me why that's a bad idea.


----------



## Butterfree

The roles were distributed randomly using the list randomizer on random.org. Anyone could be the head of the mafia, or anything else.


----------



## Novae

serimachi said:


> this is just her regular sense of humor


I am confident to say that it is this


----------



## Eifie

I agree! I am incredibly suspicious!

Also the lost mafia thing was my idea, not Keldeo's, thank you very much


----------



## Eifie

Also, yeah, there's no point in leaving cop cover because we don't have role flips. Unless you want to rely on Negrek telling us dead people's tropes.


----------



## Mr. Ultracool

Actually, I would, yeah.


----------



## Eifie

I guess it can work as long as Negrek lives, assuming they're telling the truth.

I have an n0 green on Mist1422.


----------



## M&F

serimachi said:


> If she's not distributing powers completely randomly, I think we should also consider that Butterfree might give the most powerful/important/interesting roles to experienced players or people she trusts, so as to keep the game interesting. This casts a little more doubt on Eifie and the likes of Negrek, mewtini, and other long-time forum go-ers. It's likely that one of them is the boss of the mafia.


even if it were the case that roles weren't being distributed fully at random, I would, for future reference at least, argue that GMs who do make deliberate role assignments still probably aren't rooting it on some arbitrary sense of important roles for important people.

also, Eifie was claiming she wouldn't take this game seriously well before roles were assigned; her making good on that is... well, I'm not going to call it town play, but it isn't alignment-indicative. she's been pretty helpful despite herself for what it's worth

anyways, I figure this might help us stay on track wrt our speculations on Jack's role:


> A Deadly Doctor, simply put, is someone who fights or kills with a medical motif. He uses his medical knowledge to injure, torture or kill, and uses syringes, pills or surgical instruments or medical techniques to achieve his goals. He may wear his labcoat into battle as a Badass Longcoat.


notably, this is distinguished from a Combat Medic (ie, a character who is a doctor and also kicks ass, but doesn't necessarily use medical gear in the act of kicking ass) and from a Martial Medic who converts their experience in asskicking into a healing prowess. yeah, tropers are real nerdy like that.

this is why I'm most inclined to assume Jack's role was scum, with either a doctored death reveal or, as has been pointed out now and is likelier, a type of scum role that still flips innocent; doctors are what they are in mafia, but the trope-in-question is specifically more about the murder than the... unmurder. although, a terrorist-esque role with a healing power strikes me as phenomenally useless to the point of negative utility, unless they know who the mob are but not the other way around (or if they know each other and just can't communicate).

anyways, who wants to explain the hypo thing?


----------



## Zori

Mafia Killed Jack and doctored the flavor => Keldeo probably not Mafia?
also => Negrek more likely Mafia for his entrance


----------



## Eifie

M&F said:


> anyways, who wants to explain the hypo thing?








						#2: Seers/Cops and Keeping Good Cover (by Yates)
					






					www.mafiauniverse.com
				




hypo = cop cover

(@ people who know what this means, lmao I just noticed that article is by Yates)


----------



## Eifie

Seshas said:


> Mafia Killed Jack and doctored the flavor => Keldeo probably not Mafia?
> also => Negrek more likely Mafia for his entrance


where does the Keldeo thing come from?


----------



## Zori

Keldeo said:


> Oh, and if you're referring to the "Ransacking his house, the townspeople find no weapons, no obvious signs of shady activity" line, I think that might just be a reference to Jack not being mafia?


Assuming mafia screwed with the flavor intentionally, it doesn't really make sense to shut down flavor spec in the opening of the game


----------



## Eifie

I see! I don't really have thoughts on whether mafia messed with the flavour but I like that you had that thought.


----------



## Eifie

how does IndigoEmmy _still_ have the highest reaction score when y'all are showering my posts with love left and right. this is the real question guys.


----------



## kyeugh

if i’m cop n0 keldeo green


----------



## Zori

Eifie said:


> I see! I don't really have thoughts on whether mafia messed with the flavour but I like that you had that thought.


I have info that says that mafia are pulling strings behind the curtain
from which I inferred that Mafia doctoring the flavor is a possibility


----------



## kyeugh

Eifie said:


> how does IndigoEmmy _still_ have the highest reaction score when y'all are showering my posts with love left and right. this is the real question guys.


foul play?


----------



## Eifie

kyeugh said:


> if i’m cop n0 keldeo green


this checks out with the fact that @Keldeo and I are masons


----------



## Eifie

Seshas said:


> I have info that says that mafia are pulling strings behind the curtain
> from which I inferred that Mafia doctoring the flavor is a possibility


yeah I gotcha

they're not necessarily mutually exclusive but I pretty strongly believe that Jack was a mafia doctor (the kind that doesn't know the other mafia and flips as non mafia)


----------



## M&F

Eifie said:


> #2: Seers/Cops and Keeping Good Cover (by Yates)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.mafiauniverse.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> hypo = cop cover


I see I'll cooperate, but I also do think it's possible we just don't have a cop. in this here local meta, weaker inforoles tend to come more favoured!

now, give me a moment to overthink this, because taking a clear and sticking with it for good sure sounds like a lot. either that, or I have real results and am holding off to see if more people adhere to the cover thing


----------



## Keldeo

Wow, we're off to a really active start!

I think most of the role speculation about Jack is plausible (particularly Eifie's theory about him being "lost mafia" to resolve VM/Negrek's conflicting claims, in light of what MF pointed out about the trope, but I'm not sure about it) so I don't think we should like... act on any assumptions that Jack has any standard ability, though, given how weird some of these could be. 

In terms of hypo, I'm a little bit wary that without role flips, it could be controlled by Negrek on her own (e.g. someone gives wrong checks, dies, mafia Negrek "confirms" them as a cop). But besides locking into checks, I don't see a huge downside to sharing results? So if I'm a cop, my powers can't be used until the right moment and I have no idea when that is.

Please enjoy also the very serious article, Cheers/Jokes and Keeping A Good Atmosphere!



Mist1422 said:


> Gonna call Seshas town and request that y'all trust me
> 
> because meta:tm:


Tell me more about your meta? I'm leaning more toward town for them myself, but I'd like to hear from you.



serimachi said:


> Obviously Eifie is acting incredibly suspicious


In what way do you mean, just asking to be lynched or something else? (I will also chime in that this is her normal sense of humor - just trying to get a sense of how you're thinking here.)


----------



## M&F

Seshas said:


> Mafia Killed Jack and doctored the flavor => Keldeo probably not Mafia?
> also => Negrek more likely Mafia for his entrance


I also completely forgot to point out, but -- as much as half-truthfulness is a staple of mafia behavior in this board, this is pretty much concluding that Negrek must be lying based on the truthfulness of Negrek's information

like, it's not that I'm entirely taking Negrek's claim at face value, but assuming it's false prompts a whole other branch of speculation


----------



## Vipera Magnifica

Okay WOW this game has a lot of activity so far, to say the least.



mewtini said:


> if it's *specifically *the first non-mafia person (and we take what's been said so far at face value) then i wonder if this power is even useful after this - or if it allows for the first-non-suppressed circumstance, or something? otherwise vm literally just lost his power lol ... or it was a fake non-mafia flip. idk.


Alright, so upon re-reading my role, it says the first time a non-mafia player dies in the game, I will take on their role and power _as the next night phase begins_. Guess that means any speculation about JackPK's role was a colossal waste of time. Whoops.


----------



## M&F

Vipera Magnifica said:


> Alright, so upon re-reading my role, it says the first time a non-mafia player dies in the game, I will take on their role and power _as the next night phase begins_. Guess that means any speculation about JackPK's role was a colossal waste of time. Whoops.


ahahahahah that's also a swerve

but I mean, so much the better that we seem to be headed towards getting an actual confirmation of Jack's role; might shed some light on what to make of the speculators


----------



## I liek Squirtles

Wahoo!!! I had an exam yesterday and missed the bus. Now there's ten pages of thread. Give me a second and I will post more detailedly!


----------



## Eifie

Vipera Magnifica said:


> Okay WOW this game has a lot of activity so far, to say the least.
> 
> 
> 
> Alright, so upon re-reading my role, it says the first time a non-mafia player dies in the game, I will take on their role and power _as the next night phase begins_. Guess that means any speculation about JackPK's role was a colossal waste of time. Whoops.


.


----------



## Vipera Magnifica

I liek Squirtles said:


> Wahoo!!! I had an exam yesterday and missed the bus. Now there's ten pages of thread. Give me a second and I will post more detailedly!


For what it's worth, you can skip most of it.


----------



## Keldeo

MF, do you have any specific thoughts on the people who were speculating?

So the new simplest explanation is that no one lied, Jack was just a normal townie Death Doctor, and everyone's power was working as intended, right?


----------



## Eifie

Keldeo said:


> So the new simplest explanation is that no one lied, Jack was just a normal townie Death Doctor, and everyone's power was working as intended, right?


I still think the look of indignation is important and he might've been a mafia doctor >:(


----------



## Mr. Ultracool

Well, next phase one living player will know! Vipera Magnifica, would you claim?


----------



## Vipera Magnifica

Mr. Ultracool said:


> Well, next phase one living player will know! Vipera Magnifica, would you claim?


At this point I may as well claim, unless it would be against the town's interest in doing so.


----------



## Eifie

Vipera Magnifica said:


> At this point I may as well claim, unless it would be against the town's interest in doing so.


Haven't you already claimed? Unless you mean a full trope reveal, which I would not really be in favour of.


----------



## Mr. Ultracool

Well, you being a Death Doctor starting next phase is known to everyone already, so you would potentially be a mafia target anyways...


----------



## Vipera Magnifica

Eifie said:


> Haven't you already claimed? Unless you mean a full trope reveal, which I would not really be in favour of.


I mean, claiming universal backup is pretty much a non-claim, since that role is going to be immediately overwritten.


----------



## Vipera Magnifica

What I meant to say was, I will claim my new role tomorrow, just to put any speculation about JackPK's role to rest.


----------



## M&F

Keldeo said:


> MF, do you have any specific thoughts on the people who were speculating?


that there is a good question; I suppose I could do with some light rereading, at least to set expectations on how a forthcoming reveal will affect my view of the people who were speculating

one little thing that sticks out is that, if VM does successfully inherit the role, he can confirm for us whether Negrek was telling the truth about it

fwiw, myself, I still think it's likeliest that Jack had a scum role based on the flavor of the trope; if VM still doesn't have a power tomorrow, I'll be vindicated, but if he does, I'll be humbled, _I guess_


----------



## Eifie

M&F said:


> fwiw, myself, I still think it's likeliest that Jack had a scum role based on the flavor of the trope; if VM still doesn't have a power tomorrow, I'll be vindicated, but if he does, I'll be humbled, _I guess_


Personally if Jack is the kind of mafia doctor we've been talking about, I think it could go either way wrt VM inheriting his role. "Not mafia" could mean "flips not mafia" or it could mean "not mafia-aligned", so it'd be like, a GM thing. idk if it's the kind of thing we could ask about (I always prefer not asking the GM about stuff to keep the ~intrigue~, but...)


----------



## Eifie

Eifie said:


> Personally if Jack is the kind of mafia doctor we've been talking about, I think it could go either way wrt VM inheriting his role. "Not mafia" could mean "flips not mafia" or it could mean "not mafia-aligned", so it'd be like, a GM thing. idk if it's the kind of thing we could ask about (I always prefer not asking the GM about stuff to keep the ~intrigue~, but...)


tl;dr I'm clinging to my theory about the look of indignation regardless of what happens, god dammit


----------



## I liek Squirtles

Ok I'm all caught up I think! I have a question: what exactly are the Death Doctor's powers? Does it have a one-shot killing power or is it a 50/50 crapshoot of killing or healing?


----------



## Eifie

I liek Squirtles said:


> Ok I'm all caught up I think! I have a question: what exactly are the Death Doctor's powers? Does it have a one-shot killing power or is it a 50/50 crapshoot of killing or healing?


We have no idea.


----------



## Vipera Magnifica

I liek Squirtles said:


> Ok I'm all caught up I think! I have a question: what exactly are the Death Doctor's powers? Does it have a one-shot killing power or is it a 50/50 crapshoot of killing or healing?


Death Doctor was supposedly the trope the role was based on, so we don't know for certain what the role will be. But I'll wager it involves healing and/or killing.


----------



## Zori

M&F said:


> I also completely forgot to point out, but -- as much as half-truthfulness is a staple of mafia behavior in this board, this is pretty much concluding that Negrek must be lying based on the truthfulness of Negrek's information
> 
> like, it's not that I'm entirely taking Negrek's claim at face value, but assuming it's false prompts a whole other branch of speculation


Not really?
I was saying that if we get more evidence that Mafia have control over the death flavors, then I'd suspect Negrek purely because of his entrance post


----------



## kyeugh

Seshas said:


> Not really?
> I was saying that if we get more evidence that Mafia have control over the death flavors, then I'd suspect Negrek purely because of his entrance post


this doesn’t make sense to me and neither does your assumption that the mafia affected the flavor text based on info that “they are pulling the strings behind the scenes” unless you were withholding all of the information that makes that conclusion make any sense


----------



## Keldeo

Seshas, if the mafia controlled the flavor somehow, what did you think mafia Negrek’s agenda would be in suggesting that Jack’s kill might not have been carried out by the mafia? I thought she was mainly advocating for a “wait and compare” approach to the flavor.


----------



## M&F

Seshas said:


> Not really?
> I was saying that if we get more evidence that Mafia have control over the death flavors, then I'd suspect Negrek purely because of his entrance post


okay yeah, that actually makes a lot of sense

I also thought I remembered something similar out of her in a past game but my memory may just be playing tricks on me


----------



## kyeugh

negrek i think has had very normal takes on flavor text for someone who has experience with games like this one


----------



## Zori

kyeugh said:


> this doesn’t make sense to me and neither does your assumption that the mafia affected the flavor text based on info that “they are pulling the strings behind the scenes” unless you were withholding all of the information that makes that conclusion make any sense


2)


Seshas said:


> Not really?
> I was saying that *if we get more evidence* that Mafia have control over the death flavors, then I'd suspect Negrek purely because of his entrance post


1) It's mostly that Negrek just popped in and started talking immediately about the flavor
I should probably stop getting hung up on this and start scumhunting not conditional on a tinfoil


----------



## Keldeo

Oh, hmm, okay. I think it’s pretty typical for folks to talk about flavor very early on in games where it might possibly mean something, since there’s nothing else to go on. 

I’m gonna...
*unvote Mr. Ultracool, vote Boquise*, hi tbh


----------



## Eifie

Keldeo said:


> Oh, hmm, okay. I think it’s pretty typical for folks to talk about flavor very early on in games where it might possibly mean something, since there’s nothing else to go on.
> 
> I’m gonna...
> *unvote Mr. Ultracool, vote Boquise*, hi tbh


I keep meaning to ping @Boquise smh

I thought you said it was nice to be in a role and flavour-heavy game again, so come talk to me!


----------



## Eifie

hey @Keldeo I'm too lazy to open mason chat so wanna refresh me on what your thoughts on people are

mine are basically like...

outside of mech confirms Seshas is my most confident town because reasons, Herbe/kyeugh/mewt gave me a good impression just based on tone (lol tonereads in tcodf games), and I have an extremely bad townlean on serimachi for that post about me lol. I wanna let Mr. Ultracool stick around and have fun posting tropes. Negrek and VM are Town For Now, Think Later. everyone else is in an amorphous pile.


----------



## Novae

Keldeo said:


> Tell me more about your meta? I'm leaning more toward town for them myself, but I'd like to hear from you.


Seshas is a more mechanical player so I think mechspec is a logical first step in an unfamiliar setting


----------



## Novae

I would also like to say that there are approximately three people in this game I can claim to be able to read tbh

also on an unrelated note that someone will probably appreciate I am currently listening to the magikarp festival song


----------



## Eifie

Mist1422 said:


> I would also like to say that there are approximately three people in this game I can claim to be able to read tbh
> 
> also on an unrelated note that someone will probably appreciate I am currently listening to the magikarp festival song


am I one?!


----------



## Novae

Eifie said:


> am I one?!


You and keldeo are each .5 tbh


----------



## Eifie

Mist1422 said:


> You and keldeo are each .5 tbh


I can't decide if I'm extremely pleased or extremely angry about this


----------



## Novae

Eifie said:


> I can't decide if I'm extremely pleased or extremely angry about this


The latter is probably better since I was talking about HG1


----------



## Novae

However you did not comment on my magikarp festival so I am disappointed in you as well tbh


----------



## Zori

Mist1422 said:


> Seshas is a more mechanical player so I think mechspec is a logical first step in an unfamiliar setting


I always thought I was more reads-oriented
maybe it's just ToS forums that's super heavily mech biased


----------



## Keldeo

Eifie said:


> hey @Keldeo I'm too lazy to open mason chat so wanna refresh me on what your thoughts on people are
> 
> mine are basically like...
> 
> outside of mech confirms Seshas is my most confident town because reasons, Herbe/kyeugh/mewt gave me a good impression just based on tone (lol tonereads in tcodf games), and I have an extremely bad townlean on serimachi for that post about me lol. I wanna let Mr. Ultracool stick around and have fun posting tropes. Negrek and VM are Town For Now, Think Later. everyone else is in an amorphous pile.


Yeah, I'm trying to be a little mysterious because I really do not want to drown out people who have less time for this game.

I think I agree with most of your reads. I have a fake tone townlean on Mawile too. I'm not sure what to make of the fact that mewtini is reacting to stuff but doesn't feel pressured to post, I want to call it towny. kyeugh is probably a little bit higher than just pure tone for "feeling solvy" about the mechanical situation, and poking at Seshas this morning, but I've got to go check how she played in your memefest where she was mafia. I have the exact same bad townlean on serimachi, haha. MF also goes into my "stick around and have fun posting tropes" pile, tbh. I think MF had a good point about rereading people's speculation on Jack's death to see whether anyone might have been TMIing him actually not mafia, but I don't feel like rereading right now.

I'm feeling okay on Seshas for activity/tone, but I'm not super confident. Can you tell me more about them?

Also you should open mason chat, I sent you dogs.


----------



## serimachi

Keldeo said:


> In what way do you mean, just asking to be lynched or something else? (I will also chime in that this is her normal sense of humor - just trying to get a sense of how you're thinking here.)


Haha, well just in the first few pages, right?



Eifie said:


> I volunteer to be lynched!





Eifie said:


> I personally am in my element when surrounded by corpses and blood. Ooh, death...





Eifie said:


> Oh. We'll need to fix that.





Eifie said:


> you think I do my own killing? how crass...


Now don't get me wrong, it _is_ hilarious. But could it be something more..?


----------



## serimachi

I'll assume bad townlean means you guys are skeptical about me being an innocent. I don't know if it's a good idea to reveal power even in general terms, but I can see already some people have. Can anyone experienced in the game tell me when that's a good idea?


----------



## mewtini

late question but what did 'n0 green' mean? think i'm behind on the lingo lol


----------



## mewtini

Keldeo said:


> I'm not sure what to make of the fact that mewtini is reacting to stuff but doesn't feel pressured to post,


oh i should say that i've been in classes/etc so far today so i've just been kind of trying to keep up and not get hit with 6 new pages of spec later in the day. also i don't really have much intel to add that hasn't yet been said i feel :T


----------



## mewtini

will actually post in a few hours when i get to actually read through and collect my thoughts though


----------



## Eifie

serimachi said:


> I'll assume bad townlean means you guys are skeptical about me being an innocent. I don't know if it's a good idea to reveal power even in general terms, but I can see already some people have. Can anyone experienced in the game tell me when that's a good idea?


It means I think you're town right now but it's for a dumb reason and maybe I shouldn't.

People generally claim when they think their information is helpful and relevant.

@Keldeo it's because reasons but I'm fairly confident about those reasons. Also yeah I'm trying to make myself post less. heheh...

If Jack was a half-mafia like I think then I think town and mafia would be equally in the dark about it so I'm not sure there's really much useful to find there.


----------



## Eifie

ok one more post (I'm sorry I'm sorry)



mewtini said:


> late question but what did 'n0 green' mean? think i'm behind on the lingo lol


It means a cop check performed on n0 where the person was checked to be not mafia.

(i.e. "If I'm a cop I have an n0 green on X" means "If I'm a cop, I checked X on n0 and got not mafia")


----------



## Keldeo

mewt - No worries about being in class! "n0 green [user]" is shorthand for "I am claiming to be the cop, I inspected [user] on n0 and they were green" (town / village / innocent / not mafia.) I think it's because sometimes town and mafia are color coded as green and red, respectively. The claim doesn't have to be real - it could be part of a "hypoclaim" or "cop cover" strategy.

serimachi - Thanks for clarifying about Eifie! I don't mean to invalidate your read, but her unselfconsciousness about posting stuff like that as a joke makes me think she's more likely to be town, actually.

In addition to what Eifie said about claiming, I think it's also best to reveal your role and flavor close to the deadline if you are about to be lynched, because it looks like we won't be getting role flips.

Eifie - Okay! I would like to know more about Seshas reasons eventually, but it's okay if you don't want to say right now.


----------



## Keldeo

Mist1422 said:


> The latter is probably better since I was talking about HG1


As You Know, HG1 means Hydra Game 1, a game from a few months ago where you, Mist, were mafia and Eifie and I were town. Every account in the game was shared by two people - Eifie and I were playing in the same account, so I'm assuming that's what your "0.5" joke means.

Do you have any read on me and Eifie so far?


----------



## rari_teh

I’m siding with Eifie here, Jack is definitely dead and not town-aligned. The indignant look says all – unless mafia can fuck around with the flavour text, that is. The lack of sign of violence can be explained by Psychic Powers, poisoning or pretty much any ninja trope.

My thoughts so far… Eifie and serimachi are likely town and I have my suspicions around one person whom I’ll abstain from naming. Talking about abstaining, I don’t think it’s prudent to lynch anyone with the tiny amount of info we currently have, so I’ll *abstain*. Also, if I’m a cop, n0 green on Ultracool.



Vipera Magnifica said:


> Alright, so upon re-reading my role, it says the first time a non-mafia player dies in the game, I will take on their role and power _as the next night phase begins_. Guess that means any speculation about JackPK's role was a colossal waste of time. Whoops.


Womp womp. Now if Negrek is mafia and lying about Jack’s role, guess who’s gonna be murdered by sunrise?



Mawile said:


> I feel some emotion for the people who come to this thread later and have to read four pages of day 1 nonsense.


Tell me about it.


----------



## IndigoClaudia

Hee hee hee


----------



## IndigoClaudia

I'm brooding edgily.


----------



## IndigoClaudia

And lurking anyone want to just come see what i'm up to?


----------



## Mawile

IndigoEmmy said:


> And lurking anyone want to just come see what i'm up to?


Maybe I'm just tired, but I don't understand what this sentence means?


----------



## rari_teh

Mawile said:


> Maybe I'm just tired, but I don't understand what this sentence means?


I thought it was just me. Or maybe we’re both tired.


----------



## IndigoClaudia

heh i'm just lurking OMINSOUSLY WANNA ASK ME SOMETHING?


----------



## rari_teh

IndigoEmmy said:


> heh i'm just lurking OMINSOUSLY WANNA ASK ME SOMETHING?


What is the airspeed velocity of an unladen swallow?


----------



## IndigoClaudia

Umm... nanobots.


----------



## IndigoClaudia

and Edgy doctors. I know it all kid and you've come to the right place. But how do i know i should trust you?


----------



## rari_teh

Enlightening.


----------



## Mawile

Also re:Keldeo's post that I'm too lazy to quote, what does "fake tone townlean" mean? I understand townlean, but I don't know how to interpret that phrase as a whole. (Is it good or bad?)


----------



## Keldeo

Mawile, "fake tone townlean" is a townlean for having good tone, but on some level it's for "fake" or "bad" reasons that I don't entirely trust because you've probably been around the block enough to be able to fake what you've done so far as mafia too. It's kinda like Eifie's "lol tone reads" sentiment.



rari_teh said:


> I’m siding with Eifie here, Jack is definitely dead and not town-aligned. The indignant look says all – unless mafia can fuck around with the flavour text, that is. The lack of sign of violence can be explained by Psychic Powers, poisoning or pretty much any ninja trope.


Hi rari_teh! Sorry, I don't entirely understand this line of thought. He could be indignant about dying as an innocent, couldn't he? I guess if VM is around tomorrow, he can confirm whether or not Jack was "not mafia" (which doesn't tell us if he was town, but.)

Why do you think Eifie and serimachi are town? I think I agree - just trying to understand where you're coming from.


----------



## Eifie

I actually think I understand what IndigoEmmy is talking about but I can't find the reference from the old TV Tropes mafia because thread search doesn't work there. :(


----------



## rari_teh

IndigoEmmy said:


> and Edgy doctors. I know it all kid and you've come to the right place. But how do i know i should trust you?


There's no way to know. I have nothing. I might as well not even be rari_teh. Will you take the risk of trusting a stranger?


----------



## qenya

Eifie said:


> this checks out with the fact that @Keldeo and I are masons


To be clear (and you too @Keldeo), is this an actual roleclaim or just memery? I honestly can't tell at this point


----------



## IndigoClaudia

Hee hee i'm being cryptic on purpouse


----------



## IndigoClaudia

I'm being a bit memey and slightly role-y but it's kind of hard to do my role without being very subtle and i'm kind of late so i'm trying to hurry things up


----------



## Eifie

IndigoEmmy said:


> I'm being a bit memey and slightly role-y but it's kind of hard to do my role without being very subtle and i'm kind of late so i'm trying to hurry things up


lol well if the reference is what I think it is I guess you're town and bfree is pulling a lot of things from the last game :p


----------



## I liek Squirtles

kokorico said:


> To be clear (and you too @Keldeo), is this an actual roleclaim or just memery? I honestly can't tell at this point


Keldeo and Eifie are barfiemasons irl, I really don't know how much they're joking lmao

Was flavor text fuckery something that happened in the previous TVTropes mafia?


----------



## Novae

Seshas said:


> I always thought I was more reads-oriented
> maybe it's just ToS forums that's super heavily mech biased


Counterpoint

XX1


Keldeo said:


> As You Know, HG1 means Hydra Game 1, a game from a few months ago where you, Mist, were mafia and Eifie and I were town. Every account in the game was shared by two people - Eifie and I were playing in the same account, so I'm assuming that's what your "0.5" joke means.
> 
> Do you have any read on me and Eifie so far?


I have half a scumread on you and half of no read on Eifie


----------



## IndigoClaudia

hmm well then what am i?


----------



## Keldeo

Alright, I think I have a bad townlean on IndigoEmmy as well because this is her first game and I don't really think that she would think of faking this subtle wink-wink-nod-nod dance as the mafia alignment.



kokorico said:


> To be clear (and you too @Keldeo), is this an actual roleclaim or just memery? I honestly can't tell at this point


Sorry! It's just memery for the moment - it might turn out to be an actual roleclaim, but I can neither confirm nor deny at this point, hehe.

Have you got any other thoughts on the game?


----------



## IndigoClaudia

Ha ha i've played mafia before irl so llol


----------



## Eifie

IndigoEmmy said:


> hmm well then what am i?


----------



## IndigoClaudia

pm me what you think it is @Eifie


----------



## Herbe

okay hi hello I just spent 45 minutes reading the updates

I get weird town vibes from seshas but I think it's only weird to me because culture differences, but still. I'd feel safe calling her town though, I don't see anything like... malicious there I guess.

eifie is eifing. i can't necessarily tell her alignment one way or the other. im nearly inclined to say town, though, since she was being helpful here and there? just a smidge though. wouldn't want to overpower the memes. Also I don't know what the fuck a mason is and I'm too afraid to ask

I do have to admit that I'm overall useless in general when it comes to stuff like this. Inexperience and such. I think this might actually be my first serious mafia game as a guy with a frontal lobe lmao. But I'm trying!!!! I think tomorrow I'll be able to have more Informed Opinions and such. The... the VM misunderstanding reveal really made me sit for a minute. Wow. Tomorrow will be interesting. I don't think VM was confusing town on purpose though, although the idea did cross my mind (did a damn good job of it) Seemed genuine. 

Re:


rari_teh said:


> Womp womp. Now if Negrek is mafia and lying about Jack’s role, guess who’s gonna be murdered by sunrise?


If I understand this correctly... what's stopping the mafia from killing VM to frame Negrek as mafia? That almost seems too easy. I'd be cautious about implicating Negrek as mafia immediately if VM dies tomorrow.

also hi indigoemmy!


----------



## IndigoClaudia

@Herbe 
Whatsup.

BTW i'm a bit more complicated then you might think


----------



## Novae

rari_teh said:


> What is the airspeed velocity of an unladen swallow?


European or African?


----------



## IndigoClaudia

I have some plans he he he.


----------



## Novae

IndigoEmmy said:


> pm me what you think it is @Eifie


I’m pretty sure that’s not a thing that’s allowed


----------



## Eifie

IndigoEmmy said:


> pm me what you think it is @Eifie


smh that's not allowed!


----------



## IndigoClaudia

oh sorry


----------



## rari_teh

Keldeo said:


> Hi rari_teh! Sorry, I don't entirely understand this line of thought. He could be indignant about dying as an innocent, couldn't he? I guess if VM is around tomorrow, he can confirm whether or not Jack was "not mafia" (which doesn't tell us if he was town, but.)
> 
> Why do you think Eifie and serimachi are town? I think I agree - just trying to understand where you're coming from.


Hi there, mythical pony! My take on Jack is that he’s indignant about being killed by those he supported, but yes, he could also be indignant about dying as an innocent – I hadn’t thought about that.

I don’t know Eifie for longer than I’ve been on TCoD Forums (hint: not long), but it seems to me that her nonstop memeing is her usual self, if her behaviour in the signups post (and thus pre-assigning) says anything. Serimachi is 1) a newbie on mafia and 2) talking to detail about who he thinks is mafia and _let's go get them bad guys!_, so I assume he's very much a town.



Eifie said:


> I actually think I understand what IndigoEmmy is talking about but I can't find the reference from the old TV Tropes mafia because thread search doesn't work there. :(


ssshhhh


----------



## Herbe

listen just post it in this thread and we'll all promise to close our eyes


----------



## IndigoClaudia

Then keep it very quiet for it is your secret, Eifie.


----------



## Herbe

(that was @ eifie pming indigoemmy)


----------



## IndigoClaudia

I'll scramble the letters for y'all


----------



## mewtini

yeah just as an intermediary post, based on tone/vibe so far,


Herbe said:


> I think this might actually be my first serious mafia game as a guy with a frontal lobe lmao. But I'm trying!!!!


this is the boat that i'm in rn :(

i'm kind of ignoring indigoemmy right now lol but i agree with keldeo that it seems weird to be acting this intentionally suspicious as mafia, especially if she's actually played in any capacity irl.

also agree that eifie seems to be oddly helpful thus far so i've mentally pinned her as towny. same with seshas, though i feel a little bit weirder there and i'm not sure why (i've also never played with them before, while i've seen eifie play, so that is VERY grain-of-salt)



Herbe said:


> Also I don't know what the fuck a mason is and I'm too afraid to ask


i think this is just a group of people that communicates externally?


----------



## Mr. Ultracool

Seshas said:


> I have info that says that mafia are pulling strings behind the curtain
> from which I inferred that Mafia doctoring the flavor is a possibility


That piece of info still strikes me as pretty weird. Maybe it's not you, it's me, but I'm currently somewhat suspicious of where you could have gotten this from.


----------



## Eifie

I don't know what you people are talking about. I haven't posted anything helpful whatsoever! My reputation is being smeared! _Smeared_, I tell you!


----------



## mewtini

should clarify that what i said above meant i'm seeing indigoemmy as 3p or town



rari_teh said:


> My take on Jack is that he’s indignant about being killed by those he supported, but yes, he could also be indignant about dying as an innocent – I hadn’t thought about that.


oh, the first half of this is a really good take, and one i hadn't thought about prior - was only thinking a party-agnostic "backfire angst" thing, but i like the concept of it being factional surprise


----------



## Mawile

IndigoEmmy said:


> I'll scramble the letters for y'all


This is the most secure form of encryption, speaking as a computer science major.


----------



## IndigoClaudia

very very secure no one will ever bother with how painful this is.

trrmostsfyeoianiumn


----------



## IndigoClaudia

oh god even i couldn't do that.


----------



## Mawile

Mysterious Informant?


----------



## Boquise

Sounds like IndigoEmmy is breadcrumbring a role.


----------



## IndigoClaudia

NO! HOW COULD YOU!!!!??!


----------



## Eifie

gdi guys. I hope there isn't a trope killer.

well, here. https://forums.dragonflycave.com/threads/tv-tropes-mafia-day-7.11455/post-450544


----------



## IndigoClaudia

HOW COULD YOU GUESS THAT EASILY YOU CHEEKY EVIL LITTLE!?!?


----------



## I liek Squirtles

What's a tropekiller?

I think I'm picking up what IndigoEmmy is putting down? I'm not quite sure


----------



## IndigoClaudia

Oh, MY GOSH! spot on 
there really are two edgy doctors


----------



## mewtini

Mr. Ultracool said:


> I have info that says that mafia are pulling strings behind the curtain
> from which I inferred that Mafia doctoring the flavor is a possibility
> 
> 
> 
> That piece of info still strikes me as pretty weird. Maybe it's not you, it's me, but I'm currently somewhat suspicious of where you could have gotten this from.
Click to expand...

i also still am a bit suspicious of this. i think it's possible (anything is possible, lmfao) but given what little seshas has told us of their role i'm still not really understanding a) where this comes from, or b) what it even means ... waiting on more to come out before i think too hard on it


----------



## Eifie

I liek Squirtles said:


> What's a tropekiller?
> 
> I think I'm picking up what IndigoEmmy is putting down? I'm not quite sure


a role in the previous tv tropes mafia that could kill people by naming their trope.


----------



## Herbe

apparently in the last tvtropes mafia there was a killer that could write down someone's trope like a Death Note and kill them like that


----------



## IndigoClaudia

my power is exospeak and what she said


----------



## IndigoClaudia

> I am yet another Mysterious Informant. My power is Expospeak, and I can tell that there are magic doctors and Nanomachine using doctors. The two sides don't get along.


----------



## Boquise

I understand that there is weight in analysing the death of Jack and the circumstances in the obituary, since it is seemingly relevant based on the past game, but it is a bit unstimulating and I don't really see how that catches scum?


----------



## IndigoClaudia

that wasn't supposed to be that easy...


----------



## IndigoClaudia

Now i could totally be lying to you, but you never know.


----------



## Stryke

IndigoEmmy said:


> Umm... nanobots.


O_O


----------



## rari_teh

Herbe said:


> If I understand this correctly... what's stopping the mafia from killing VM to frame Negrek as mafia? That almost seems too easy. I'd be cautious about implicating Negrek as mafia immediately if VM dies tomorrow.


Nothing stops them from doing so, but if Negrek is indeed mafia, _everything_ stops them from _not _doing so.
In other words, RIP VM. I hope somebody protects him during the night.



mewtini said:


> i'm kind of ignoring indigoemmy right now lol but i agree with keldeo that it seems weird to be acting this intentionally suspicious as mafia, especially if she's actually played in any capacity irl.


My read on IndigoEmmy is that she’s some sort of Hermit Guru, probably independent.


----------



## IndigoClaudia

yes nanobots and mumbo jumbo magic doctors who hate eachother.


----------



## rari_teh

Mist1422 said:


> European or African?


Uh. I don’t know that.


----------



## IndigoClaudia

I mean the nanobots belong to a doctor


----------



## mewtini

rari_teh said:


> In other words, RIP VM. I hope somebody protects him during the night.


----------



## I liek Squirtles

I'm getting kinda not great vibes from rari_teh... they've been super quick to pounce on Negrek, hm.


----------



## Boquise

IndigoEmmy said:


> Now i could totally be lying to you, but you never know.





http://imgur.com/ZwWTENe


----------



## IndigoClaudia

I forget how do we guess who the mafia is again?


----------



## Keldeo

Uh... @Eifie, you had spoilers for the previous version of TV Tropes Mafia, right? I don't really understand the previous Mysterious Informant roleclaim, can you say what it is?

I really don't think it's a good idea for more people to claim their role or flavor, or to hint at their roles, unless they have useful information or they are about to die. 



Boquise said:


> I understand that there is weight in analysing the death of Jack and the circumstances in the obituary, since it is seemingly relevant based on the past game, but it is a bit unstimulating and I don't really see how that catches scum?


Flavor discussion is kind of like TCoDf's Random Voting Stage - random, not super serious early discussion when there is nothing else to go on. I'm interested to hear what you think when you are fully caught up!


----------



## IndigoClaudia

I've never been so annoyingly cryptic in my whole life.


----------



## rari_teh

rari_teh said:


> My read on IndigoEmmy is that she’s some sort of Hermit Guru, probably independent.


In the time it took me to write this bloody sentence, people already figured out Indigo’s trope smh


----------



## IndigoClaudia

OH yeah useful information just a sec.


----------



## mewtini

I liek Squirtles said:


> I'm getting kinda not great vibes from rari_teh... they've been super quick to pounce on Negrek, hm.


was wondering about this but couldn't tell if it was just borne out of the early negrek-VM associations, since they both semi-roleclaimed early on


----------



## Eifie

Keldeo said:


> Uh... @Eifie, you had spoilers for the previous version of TV Tropes Mafia, right? I don't really understand the previous Mysterious Informant roleclaim, can you say what it is?
> 
> I really don't think it's a good idea for more people to claim their role or flavor, or to hint at their roles, unless they have useful information or they are about to die.


It was basically a VT that was given some game-relevant information.

I strongly agree that people should avoid hinting at their roles for now.


----------



## Boquise

the farfetch'd dude seems town because i get those vibes.

I have only played with Keldeo once I think and he was scum. Maybe he is similar here but too little data.
I am a bit suspicious of Eifie for starting and talking about the N1 post and the circumstances about Jack so much and I am a bit surprised that she hasn't complained about my inactivity

But that sounds like silly things to scum read someone for tbh


----------



## IndigoClaudia

Now im totally gonna die oh crap why did i reveal my role.


----------



## IndigoClaudia

Or am i lying and just overreacting? you tell me?


----------



## Boquise

Keldeo said:


> Uh... @Eifie, you had spoilers for the previous version of TV Tropes Mafia, right? I don't really understand the previous Mysterious Informant roleclaim, can you say what it is?
> 
> I really don't think it's a good idea for more people to claim their role or flavor, or to hint at their roles, unless they have useful information or they are about to die.
> 
> 
> Flavor discussion is kind of like TCoDf's Random Voting Stage - random, not super serious early discussion when there is nothing else to go on. I'm interested to hear what you think when you are fully caught up!


I am kinda caught up. To like page 10. Then I got bored of the conversation and didnt really know how to start a new one. Difficult being the new kid on the block tbh

but nice to know. Is sad that I get bored of the topic. Before I liked talking about that stuff


----------



## IndigoClaudia




----------



## Herbe

is - is quoting (or supposedly quoting) your role pm word for word still against the rules? or was it ever? isn't it kinda gamethrowey?????? jeez


----------



## rari_teh

I liek Squirtles said:


> I'm getting kinda not great vibes from rari_teh... they've been super quick to pounce on Negrek, hm.


It’s less _pouncing_ and more _raising the consideration that they might not be town_. You gotta admit that claiming such a powerful role on d1 is suspicious, especially coming from someone who’s played a lot of mafia.


----------



## Herbe

to be fair im assuming mysterious informant is a town role but idk


----------



## Novae

um

I’m pretty sure quoting your rolecard is also not allowed


----------



## Eifie

Boquise said:


> the farfetch'd dude seems town because i get those vibes.
> 
> I have only played with Keldeo once I think and he was scum. Maybe he is similar here but too little data.
> I am a bit suspicious of Eifie for starting and talking about the N1 post and the circumstances about Jack so much and I am a bit surprised that she hasn't complained about my inactivity
> 
> But that sounds like silly things to scum read someone for tbh


I totally did complain about your inactivity in the post where I pinged you smh

I'm not going to try to get people to play Serious Mafia in a big tcodf game either, especially when I myself don't feel like playing :p


----------



## IndigoClaudia

oh am i quoting? or did i make that up. I am mysterious for a reason duh.


----------



## IndigoClaudia

I deleted it, anyway.


----------



## Novae

IndigoEmmy said:


> oh am i quoting? or did i make that up. I am mysterious for a reason duh.


I’m pretty sure faking quoting it is equally not allowed but I’m going based on offsite experience


----------



## Boquise

Eifie said:


> I totally did complain about your inactivity in the post where I pinged you smh
> 
> I'm not going to try to get people to play Serious Mafia in a big tcodf game either, especially when I myself don't feel like playing :p


smh how did i miss the ping
okej you can be town tbh


----------



## mewtini

uh ...


----------



## Keldeo

Quoting private communication like role PMs, editing posts, and deleting posts is generally against the mafia rules, but it would be good to get official ruling from @Butterfree on this.

I'm having a bit of trouble processing the thread, I feel like I've been missing posts. Let me go back over the past few pages.



Boquise said:


> the farfetch'd dude seems town because i get those vibes.
> 
> I have only played with Keldeo once I think and he was scum. Maybe he is similar here but too little data.
> I am a bit suspicious of Eifie for starting and talking about the N1 post and the circumstances about Jack so much and I am a bit surprised that she hasn't complained about my inactivity
> 
> But that sounds like silly things to scum read someone for tbh


How much have you talked to Eifie about the way that she approaches mafia? Given how uneasy she can get as the mafia alignment, I think this has been a very towny day from her so far.


----------



## Novae

the rules thread should probably have disallowed actions on it


----------



## Eifie

... lol @Butterfree we're probably not supposed to be able to delete our posts in the mafia forum


----------



## Flora

Eifie said:


> I'm too lazy to open mason chat so wanna refresh me on what your thoughts on people are


god this is the funniest mason claim I've ever read, thank you eifie. also MAN this game moves fast


----------



## Novae

I’m gonna go read tvtropes 

bye


----------



## Eifie

Boquise said:


> smh how did i miss the ping
> okej you can be town tbh


of course i'm town you fool i'm literally volume cleared :wowee:


----------



## IndigoClaudia

I did delete the post anyway. sorry if i broke the rules.


----------



## Boquise

Eifie said:


> I totally did complain about your inactivity in the post where I pinged you smh
> 
> I'm not going to try to get people to play Serious Mafia in a big tcodf game either, especially when I myself don't feel like playing :p


When do you feel like playing tho tbh

whenever you are town tho "feeling like playing" might be a strong word tbh


----------



## Boquise

Keldeo said:


> Quoting private communication like role PMs, editing posts, and deleting posts is generally against the mafia rules, but it would be good to get official ruling from @Butterfree on this.
> 
> I'm having a bit of trouble processing the thread, I feel like I've been missing posts. Let me go back over the past few pages.
> 
> 
> How much have you talked to Eifie about the way that she approaches mafia? Given how uneasy she can get as the mafia alignment, I think this has been a very towny day from her so far.


oh we have talked a lot about that and i know from when we hydra'd tbh
just wanted to be thorough.


----------



## Eifie

IndigoEmmy said:


> I did delete the post anyway. sorry if i broke the rules.


I recommend reading over the rules thread! https://forums.dragonflycave.com/threads/important-mafia-rules.10732/
It doesn't have a clear point-form list of disallowed actions for clear reference but it does mention things that are not allowed, at points. :p



Boquise said:


> When do you feel like playing tho tbh
> 
> whenever you are town tho "feeling like playing" might be a strong word tbh


this game? never.

did you like my role pm screenshot?


----------



## Boquise

Eifie said:


> I recommend reading over the rules thread! https://forums.dragonflycave.com/threads/important-mafia-rules.10732/
> It doesn't have a clear point-form list of disallowed actions for clear reference but it does mention things that are not allowed, at points. :p
> 
> 
> 
> this game? never.
> 
> did you like my role pm screenshot?


that was my point.

your role pm screenshot was glorious tbh


----------



## Herbe

eifie do you take screenshot commissions?


----------



## Eifie

Eifie said:


> did you like my role pm screenshot?


(note in case this is weird in the current context I posted a really obviously fake self-made rolecard earlier although personally I think I captured bfree's writing style perfectly.)


----------



## Eifie

Herbe said:


> eifie do you take screenshot commissions?


do you want a rolecard too? lemme see what I can do later. right now I'm feeling lazy.


----------



## Boquise

Eifie said:


> (note in case this is weird in the current context I posted a really obviously fake self-made rolecard earlier although personally I think I captured bfree's writing style perfectly.)


no what are you saying
It was very real. 
:wowee:


----------



## Eifie

Boquise said:


> that was my point.
> 
> your role pm screenshot was glorious tbh


oh lol

I mean in regular games even when I am complaining about not wanting to play mafia I usually try to get other people to post their thoughts and stuff

here I'm content to just vibe with 24 of my closest friends.


----------



## Boquise

Eifie said:


> oh lol
> 
> I mean in regular games even when I am complaining about not wanting to play mafia I usually try to get other people to post their thoughts and stuff
> 
> here I'm content to just vibe with 24 of my closest friends.


nice!
yeh but i think you have tried to get out thoughts as well tbh


----------



## IndigoClaudia

Ahh so @Eifie  used her subtle evil tricks to fool me into revealing a role regardless of if it's mine or not.
Very sneaky.


----------



## Eifie

Boquise said:


> nice!
> yeh but i think you have tried to get out thoughts as well tbh


I have done no such thing, how dare you


----------



## IndigoClaudia

I beg to differ.


----------



## I liek Squirtles

rari_teh said:


> It’s less _pouncing_ and more _raising the consideration that they might not be town_. You gotta admit that claiming such a powerful role on d1 is suspicious, especially coming from someone who’s played a lot of mafia.


That's true, especially that it's a role that could be easily faked. To be honest, I'm also a little suspicious of VM because they backtracked on their claim. It's still too early to be sure of much of anything, at any rate.


----------



## IndigoClaudia

I have at least ONE TRICK up my sleeve.



Spoiler: Off topic



Guys i literally just found a gigantamax centiskorch lucky me


----------



## Boquise

Eifie said:


> I have done no such thing, how dare you





http://imgur.com/3yzKFO6


----------



## IndigoClaudia

Eifies whole sleeve is crammed with tricks by the looks of it.


----------



## IndigoClaudia

Containing reverse psychology, general psychology and others.


----------



## IndigoClaudia

what's the ratio of town to mafia roughly?


----------



## Mawile

IndigoEmmy said:


> what's the ratio of town to mafia roughly?


We have no clue.


----------



## IndigoClaudia

oh no. this just got serious.


----------



## Boquise

less than 12, I'd imagine tbh


----------



## Panini

Hey polks! Haven't really had a chance to read up because I've been a little burned out this week but will be on the case momentarily. Looks like we're moving pretty fast though which is cool~!


----------



## IndigoClaudia

...the towns people could overrun us? hilarious right i'm the peak of comedy.


----------



## Herbe

we already have about 20 pages and its still D1.... it's kinda breakneck lmao


----------



## Panini

IndigoEmmy said:


> what's the ratio of town to mafia roughly?


Probably if this is role madness depends a lot on the types of role that are out there but going by the old like 1/4 method maybe 6 or 5 or something at most


----------



## Eifie

Herbe said:


> we already have about 20 pages and its still D1.... it's kinda breakneck lmao


meanwhile judging from the speed of the reacts I'd say Keldeo and I are both struggling not to post our butts off more lmao


----------



## IndigoClaudia

I think it was me who moved it fast 


Spoiler



NOT TO MENTION EIFIE WHO PSYCHOLOGIED ME INTO REVEALING MY ROLE LOL


----------



## Boquise

IndigoEmmy said:


> ...the towns people could overrun us? hilarious right i'm the peak of comedy.


yeah the town might overrun us, scary business tbh

oh no i made a scum slip smh


----------



## Eifie

IndigoEmmy said:


> I think it was me who moved it fast
> 
> 
> Spoiler
> 
> 
> 
> NOT TO MENTION EIFIE WHO PSYCHOLOGIED ME INTO REVEALING MY ROLE LOL


smfh I was trying to make you stop!!


----------



## Butterfree

For clarity, quoting or screenshotting role PMs is also not allowed.

I guess I should put some rules in the first post since we've got so many new players here; this is all stuff that would normally just be assumed. Apologies for not thinking to do that once we had so many new signups.


----------



## Boquise

Eifie said:


> smfh I was trying to make you stop!!


wow tbh

thats just evil tbh


----------



## IndigoClaudia

likely story but i'll believe it anyway.


----------



## Panini

Panini said:


> Probably if this is role madness depends a lot on the types of role that are out there but going by the old like 1/4 method maybe 6 or 5 or something at most


as in like 6/5 mafia present to like 19/18 something town, not counting 3p which there probably are in a game of this size unless Butterfree has some particular penchant against that

I might be lowballing idk


----------



## IndigoClaudia

> For clarity, quoting or screenshotting role PMs is also not allowed.
> 
> I guess I should put some rules in the first post since we've got so many new players here, this is all stuff that would normally just be assumed.


sorry bout that i've never played forum mafia and need to review the rules some more. I really apologize.


----------



## qenya

Phew thank god I finally caught up.



Keldeo said:


> Have you got any other thoughts on the game?


If this was addressed at me, then the only thing that's changed about my opinions since my last post is that I don't really see why we're still hypothesising about JackPK secretly being mafia. The only reason the possibility came up was that VM slightly misread his role (or so he claims), and the only other piece of evidence is the flavour text, which everyone seems to agree is unreliable at best and conceivably might be actively misleading.

I also have, if I've got the local lingo right, "half a scumread" on somebody, but as I'm not nearly as experienced as most of you, I feel like it would be unwise to start pointing the finger of suspicion without being more confident. But if there is general consensus that I probably ought to share, I'll happily do so.



IndigoEmmy said:


> Now im totally gonna die oh crap why did i reveal my role.


Don't worry too much about it! Roleclaiming doesn't necessarily make you a target. If you were telling the truth, then as you've now given away all your information, your role is essentially the same as a vanilla townie. If I were the mafia, I would be focusing on trying to identify and kill the power roles instead of just offing you. (Granted, the TCoD meta may be different from what I'm used to, and this is hardly a normal game, but still.)



Eifie said:


> I have done no such thing, how dare you


----------



## IndigoClaudia

Sooo.... lets review our list of suspucious people.



Spoiler: Suspicious people



Me
Eifie
Keldeo
actually scratch that were all just sh*tposting here or at least i am


----------



## Mr. Ultracool

Panini said:


> Probably if this is role madness depends a lot on the types of role that are out there but going by the old like 1/4 method maybe 6 or 5 or something at most


Do you suggest that we should claim? I'd probably be capable of pulling that off without harming town too much, too...


----------



## Eifie

I have also made a list of suspicious people!



Spoiler: Suspicious people!!!



Negrek
Keldeo
JackPK
Flora
I liek Squirtles
kyeugh
Ottercopter
M&F
Mist1422
Eifie
RedneckPhoenix
Panini
kokorico
Boquise
Seshas
Stryke
mewtini
Mr. Ultracool
IndigoEmmy
rari_teh
Mawile
Odie_Pie
serimachi
Herbe
Vipera Magnifica
[/hide]


----------



## IndigoClaudia

Hurting people is for chumps. plan accordingly.


----------



## Stryke

Eifie said:


> I have also made a list of suspicious people!
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Suspicious people!!!
> 
> 
> 
> Negrek
> Keldeo
> JackPK
> Flora
> I liek Squirtles
> kyeugh
> Ottercopter
> M&F
> Mist1422
> Eifie
> RedneckPhoenix
> Panini
> kokorico
> Boquise
> Seshas
> Stryke
> mewtini
> Mr. Ultracool
> IndigoEmmy
> rari_teh
> Mawile
> Odie_Pie
> serimachi
> Herbe
> Vipera Magnifica
> [/hide]


Who is [/hide]


----------



## IndigoClaudia

Eifie said:


> I have also made a list of suspicious people!
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Suspicious people!!!
> 
> 
> 
> undefined



probably the funniest thing i read all day.


----------



## Eifie

Stryke said:


> Who is [/hide]


The most suspicious of them all. I think this should be today's lynch.

*vote: [/hide]*


----------



## Herbe

iirc ottercopter and odie_pie (and maybe RNP but i dont remember) are the only ones who haven't spoken yet?  might have missed something in the 20 pages but i'm p sure


----------



## Mawile

I appreciate how we're still suspicious of Jack's dead body, according to Eifie's list.


----------



## Stryke

*vote: [/hide]*


----------



## IndigoClaudia

agreed. i haven't seem [/hide] or hair of them in this thread all day so they are probably the likely suspect.


----------



## Mr. Ultracool

Eifie said:


> I have also made a list of suspicious people!
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Suspicious people!!!
> 
> 
> 
> Negrek
> Keldeo
> JackPK
> Flora
> I liek Squirtles
> kyeugh
> Ottercopter
> M&F
> Mist1422
> Eifie
> RedneckPhoenix
> Panini
> kokorico
> Boquise
> Seshas
> Stryke
> mewtini
> Mr. Ultracool
> IndigoEmmy
> rari_teh
> Mawile
> Odie_Pie
> serimachi
> Herbe
> Vipera Magnifica
> [/hide]


Mr. [/Hide] it's not you, it's me


----------



## IndigoClaudia

and with that.
*vote: [/hide]*


----------



## Eifie

Herbe said:


> iirc ottercopter and odie_pie (and maybe RNP but i dont remember) are the only ones who haven't spoken yet?  might have missed something in the 20 pages but i'm p sure


Ottercopter posted once, I don't think RNP has posted yet. Sucks that we can't view postcounts with the new forum anymore, at least not that I can tell.


----------



## rari_teh

Herbe said:


> iirc ottercopter and odie_pie (and maybe RNP but i dont remember) are the only ones who haven't spoken yet?  might have missed something in the 20 pages but i'm p sure


I don't remember seeing any of them as well, but then again I must admit I might’ve skipped some usernames while I was catching up…


----------



## kyeugh

just caught up with five pages of backlog here and lost many subscriber

i feel like the game has progressed like not at all since i last spoke lol


----------



## Eifie

Okay once thing that works is clicking the Search on the top right, changing "Everywhere" to "This thread", and then entering the person's username and doing the search. Then you can see all their posts in this thread, if any.


----------



## kyeugh

Herbe said:


> iirc *ottercopter* and odie_pie (and maybe RNP but i dont remember) are the only ones who haven't spoken yet?  might have missed something in the 20 pages but i'm p sure





Ottercopter said:


> My first thought about JackPK's death was poison, then maybe the fake death thing like everyone else was saying. Not much else to say for now?


----------



## Zori

Mist1422 said:


> Counterpoint
> 
> XX1


Counter-counter-point: I was drunk on trying to balance games


Mr. Ultracool said:


> That piece of info still strikes me as pretty weird. Maybe it's not you, it's me, but I'm currently somewhat suspicious of where you could have gotten this from.


I got it from a source I can confirm as probably trustworthy


I liek Squirtles said:


> That's true, especially that it's a role that could be easily faked. To be honest, I'm also a little suspicious of VM because they backtracked on their claim. It's still too early to be sure of much of anything, at any rate.


That's not alignment indicative, I still sometimes misread my rolecard


IndigoEmmy said:


> what's the ratio of town to mafia roughly?


Typically it's between 2:1 and 3:1


----------



## rari_teh

Eifie said:


> Ottercopter posted once, I don't think RNP has posted yet. Sucks that we can't view postcounts with the new forum anymore, at least not that I can tell.


You actually can, kind of.


----------



## IndigoClaudia

guys what if it was fake death using fake poison?


----------



## Herbe

rari_teh said:


> You actually can, kind of.


"Oops! We ran into some problems."
://


----------



## kyeugh

does anyone have any actual scum reads?  i feel like i saw a few mentioned but pls gib definitive answer nao so i don't have to crawl through the last four pages again


----------



## Panini

Mr. Ultracool said:


> Do you suggest that we should claim? I'd probably be capable of pulling that off without harming town too much, too...


oof I'd say generally say no because I think basically you're completing a trade with mafia wherein you just hand them all the strong town roles on a platter and let them have at thee and all the mafia have to do is come up with some good fake claims which they can work out together in their private chat

Even in like really really big games I'd say the best times to claim are pretty much just what Keldeo said previously - if you have relevant info or if you're like absolutely about to die


----------



## kyeugh

i'd like to lay some vig cover rq btw

if i am vig jack dies n0


----------



## rari_teh

Herbe said:


> "Oops! We ran into some problems."
> ://


Oof. Lemme try again. Does this work?


----------



## Mr. Ultracool

Panini said:


> oof I'd say generally say no because I think basically you're completing a trade with mafia wherein you just hand them all the strong town roles on a platter and let them have at thee and all the mafia have to do is come up with some good fake claims which they can work out together in their private chat
> 
> Even in like really really big games I'd say the best times to claim are pretty much just what Keldeo said previously - if you have relevant info or if you're like absolutely about to die


 Sorry if that came out wrong, but I really didn't mean that in a massclaim sense!


----------



## Herbe

rari_teh said:


> Oof. Lemme try again. Does this work?


Yup! Cool cool. Useful!!


----------



## IndigoClaudia

it has worked.


----------



## Negrek

Eifie said:


> lol well if the reference is what I think it is I guess you're town and bfree is pulling a lot of things from the last game :p


Could you elaborate? What all have you noticed that you think was pulled from the last game?

In the last game, what did the deal turn out to be with the "two doctors who hate each other?" What did that refer to?

You're the only person playing that Butterfree told about the setup to the previous game, correct?


----------



## kyeugh

uhhh am i missing something or does the old tv tropes mafia thread just cut off randomly in the middle of the night on page 36

did that game actually not finish!?  is eifie our only source of role information from the previous game!?!!?!?!!

(short of actually reading the thread which i am not doing.  im not)


----------



## Panini

Mr. Ultracool said:


> Sorry if that came out wrong, but I really didn't mean that in a massclaim sense!


oh! Sorry, my bad then~ I'm not sure what you meant instead if you'd like to rephrase?


----------



## IndigoClaudia

Eifie has a new role now. The one they seek knowledge from and it's so DARN ANNOYING.


----------



## Eifie

Negrek said:


> Could you elaborate? What all have you noticed that you think was pulled from the last game?
> 
> In the last game, what did the deal turn out to be with the "two doctors who hate each other?" What did that refer to?
> 
> You're the only person playing that Butterfree told about the setup to the previous game, correct?





kyeugh said:


> uhhh am i missing something or does the old tv tropes mafia thread just cut off randomly in the middle of the night on page 36
> 
> did that game actually not finish!?  is eifie our only source of role information from the previous game!?!!?!?!!
> 
> (short of actually reading the thread which i am not doing.  im not)


TV Tropes mafia never finished, no. I think people basically stopped sending in night actions and it got inactive.

I don't know anything about the two warring doctor things, otherwise they wouldn't be in this game, I think. Secret stuff that I was spoiled on has been left out of this game as far as I know.


----------



## Negrek

The game never finished, and yeah, I'm wondering if Eifie is our only source of role info from the previous game.


----------



## kyeugh

dang ok that's fair enough

hey panini how much have you read!


----------



## Negrek

What other similarities have you noticed? Since you said "a lot" is the same.


----------



## IndigoClaudia

I feel conflicted. But maybe it's for the best things remain unspoiled but then again the game would progress slower.


----------



## Eifie

Negrek said:


> The game never finished, and yeah, I'm wondering if Eifie is our only source of role info from the previous game.


So there are others here that were in the game, like Mawile, maybe Flora, Jack I think (lol), you, off the top of my head. I don't know how much they actually know/remember. Mawile was mafia so they would've had access to more information than the general public but I don't know how that worked out.


----------



## Eifie

Negrek said:


> What other similarities have you noticed? Since you said "a lot" is the same.


Something I don't want to just hand to the mafia right now, sorry.


----------



## IndigoClaudia

To clarify. 
Dead people can't talk right?
(that's a kind of dumb question, isn't it.)


----------



## kyeugh

im still loling at boq calling me farfetch'd guy

i am qva for the record.  if that gives you any meta on me based on the game we played


----------



## Eifie

iirc the general hypothesis about the two kinds of doctors that don't get along is that they would cause healer clash if they both healed the same target. we had no confirmation either way.


----------



## Negrek

Eifie said:


> So there are others here that were in the game, like Mawile, maybe Flora, Jack I think (lol), you, off the top of my head. I don't know how much they actually know/remember. Mawile was mafia so they would've had access to more information than the general public but I don't know how that worked out.


Well, I meant in terms of having received information that the average person playing in the game wouldn't have. You're the only person Butterfree spoiled the setup for?


----------



## IndigoClaudia

Ahh yes doctors.


----------



## Eifie

Negrek said:


> Well, I meant in terms of having received information that the average person playing in the game wouldn't have. You're the only person Butterfree spoiled the setup for?


Mawile might have more, like I said. It wasn't Butterfree who spoiled me, but opal and surskitty told me some stuff after I died. I only know about some select stuff they thought was cool and a few questions I asked.


----------



## rari_teh

Eifie said:


> TV Tropes mafia never finished, no. I think people basically stopped sending in night actions and it got inactive.
> [/QUOTE
> If you guys start mass-ghosting this game, I swearragod I’ll… be very sad *:(*
> 
> 
> 
> Eifie said:
> 
> 
> 
> I don't know anything about the two warring doctor things, otherwise they wouldn't be in this game, I think. Secret stuff that I was spoiled on has been left out of this game as far as I know.
> 
> 
> 
> Hmm… If Jack was the Deadly Doctor, he could be one of the two warring doctors. Here’s to me speaking obvieties.
Click to expand...


----------



## Panini

Like you specifically claim? Me claim?


kyeugh said:


> dang ok that's fair enough
> 
> hey panini how much have you read!


Like uh, from page 17 or so up to here and then only the first 3 pages because I'm super slow about taking notes especially without an ISO fuction and I also want to be here for *~*~*LIVE PLAY*~*~*


----------



## IndigoClaudia

He could be the one who did magic because it sounds more likely.


----------



## Mawile

Eifie said:


> Mawile was mafia so they would've had access to more information than the general public but I don't know how that worked out.


I'm gonna be honest with you, I have almost no recollection of the previous game other than the fact that I provided the Single Most Confusing Post and then proceeded to get stabbed in the back. I read through the entire thread the other day and was like "wow what was I doing" and also "I have no recollection of most of this".


----------



## Eifie

dw I'll always be here to spam the thread

that said I'm gonna try really really hard to stop posting for now unless someone specifically addresses me because I really don't wanna overwhelm the thread, so k bye


----------



## Negrek

Eifie said:


> Mawile might have more, like I said. It wasn't Butterfree who spoiled me, but opal and surskitty told me some stuff after I died. I only know about some select stuff they thought was cool and a few questions I asked.


Mmm, okay. So Butterfree wouldn't actually be aware of what you did and didn't know about, necessarily.


----------



## Eifie

Eifie said:


> dw I'll always be here to spam the thread
> 
> that said I'm gonna try really really hard to stop posting for now unless someone specifically addresses me because I really don't wanna overwhelm the thread, so k bye


this was in reply to @rari_teh but quotes don't nest which is sad


----------



## IndigoClaudia

Eifie said:


> I would just like to emphasize that I never promised my game posts will contain meaningful content—


----------



## kyeugh

Eifie said:


> Something I don't want to just hand to the mafia right now, sorry.


----------



## Eifie

Negrek said:


> Mmm, okay. So Butterfree wouldn't actually be aware of what you did and didn't know about, necessarily.


She asked me what I was spoiled on before the game, so that that stuff could be left out. The rest should be publicly available information e.g. the nanobots thing.


----------



## rari_teh

I have wonderfully messed up formatting, haven’t I.


----------



## Negrek

Eifie said:


> She asked me what I was spoiled on before the game, so that that stuff could be left out. The rest should be publicly available information e.g. the nanobots thing.


Got it, thanks. I misunderstood the situation.


----------



## kyeugh

Panini said:


> Like uh, from page 17 or so up to here and then only the first 3 pages because I'm super slow about taking notes especially without an ISO fuction and I also want to be here for *~*~*LIVE PLAY*~*~*


ah, taking notes!  thats sure a thing i have done before :)

i was going to ask you if you had any leans but i guess you haven't read that much.  unless...?


----------



## IndigoClaudia

I'm thoroughly confused and at this point i don't even know where i stand.


----------



## kyeugh

i feel like i'm ddosing the forums just sitting here hitting refresh

i'm pretty sure it lets you know if anyone's posted since you last refreshed the page but like.  what if it doesn't check often enough


----------



## IndigoClaudia

Knowing human beings as a species i don't have a lead.


----------



## IndigoClaudia

kyeugh said:


> i feel like i'm ddosing the forums just sitting here hitting refresh
> 
> i'm pretty sure it lets you know if anyone's posted since you last refreshed the page but like.  what if it doesn't check often enough


Yeah i was feeling the same thing.


----------



## Mawile

kyeugh said:


> i'm pretty sure it lets you know if anyone's posted since you last refreshed the page but like.  what if it doesn't check often enough


I think the little bell icon has a notification dot if someone posted! But also then again I am also in this boat. My brain demands More Posts and More Content from this day 1 mafia game.


----------



## kyeugh

keldeo, sorry if you've already said this, but what do you believe the deal is with jack?


----------



## IndigoClaudia

tomorrow i am going to regret adding this to my list of watched threads.


----------



## rari_teh

Negrek said:


> Mmm, okay. So Butterfree wouldn't actually be aware of what you did and didn't know about, necessarily.





Eifie said:


> She asked me what I was spoiled on before the game, so that that stuff could be left out. The rest should be publicly available information e.g. the nanobots thing.


Petition to add a  reaction



kyeugh said:


> i feel like i'm ddosing the forums just sitting here hitting refresh
> 
> i'm pretty sure it lets you know if anyone's posted since you last refreshed the page but like.  what if it doesn't check often enough


I thought there was some very obvious way of seeing last posts in real-time and I was missing it. In other words, you three aren’t alone in this DDoS.


----------



## Mawile

rari_teh said:


>


----------



## rari_teh

IndigoEmmy said:


> tomorrow i am going to regret adding this to my list of watched threads.


As they say, RIP inbox


----------



## rari_teh

Mawile said:


>


----------



## IndigoClaudia

relax bros i disabled email notifications.


----------



## Negrek

rari_teh said:


> It’s less _pouncing_ and more _raising the consideration that they might not be town_. You gotta admit that claiming such a powerful role on d1 is suspicious, especially coming from someone who’s played a lot of mafia.


I'm curious: what makes you say my role is so powerful?


----------



## IndigoClaudia




----------



## Panini

kyeugh said:


> ah, taking notes!  thats sure a thing i have done before :)
> 
> i was going to ask you if you had any leans but i guess you haven't read that much.  unless...?


Yeah not really yet, although maybe that'll change once I get to the end. Usually I do this kind of thing later at night when less is happening because it takes me some deal of time to actually sink my teeth into stuff but I wanted to pop in the thread because, similar to the invitational, I'm trying to just like, go with the flow and not stress out so much about not having everything exactly in place to begin with. I'd like to say being here live for the last handful of pages helps but it seems like just a lot of raw mech talk is happening which isn't like,, bad or anything but probably contributes to a general sense of like idk where to focus so I'll just sit over here with the thread for a bit and try to get a better look.

If I had to say anything it'd probably be that Indigo is posting pretty loosely which should feel kind of pure? and like, non-nervous? (especially for a newer player but like, correct me if my understanding of your experience level is wrong)

Even that feels like it might be kind of a stretch given we haven't really cracked the top off of the bottle as far as read making content goes but


----------



## IndigoClaudia

Alright, i gtg. My family is expecting me to come to passover. (i'm an atheist but whatever) like three days late so see you tommorow 
can't wait to see who dies
Can't wait to see what happens


----------



## IndigoClaudia

Panini said:


> If I had to say anything it'd probably be that Indigo is posting pretty loosely which should feel kind of pure? and like, non-nervous? (especially for a newer player but like, correct me if my understanding of your experience level is wrong)


Ehh... it's not much but i have played IRL mafia before,


----------



## Panini

IndigoEmmy said:


>


see like

I feel silly making the read when stuff like this is what I'm talking about but like 
Just toan things


----------



## rari_teh

Negrek said:


> I'm curious: what makes you say my role is so powerful?


I’m certain that many (if not most) tropes are not only very revealing about one’s alignment as mafia/town/independent, but also provides much insight about one’s gimmick/power. Besides, if there is indeed a Trope Killer, well, you’re the killer’s phonebook.


----------



## IndigoClaudia

anyway now imma go for real bye chumps  good chums of mine


----------



## Novae

IndigoEmmy said:


>


*IndigoEmmy*


----------



## Keldeo

kyeugh said:


> keldeo, sorry if you've already said this, but what do you believe the deal is with jack?





Keldeo said:


> So the new simplest explanation is that no one lied, Jack was just a normal townie Death Doctor, and everyone's power was working as intended, right?


^ I'm believing in this explanation - the mafia just killed a town n0, VM and Negrek are telling the truth - unless/until something comes up that would cast doubt on it. I can see why the indignant stare could mean that he is actually "lost mafia", but I'm not overly swayed by the idea when I think this is simpler.

At some point this evening I'll make a more detailed post about the game, but I've barely thought about the last like... 10 pages, other than I think IndigoEmmy is very towny - she seems very pure and in-flow. While I'm fine with this pace in general, I was expecting the game to move much more slowly, hehe.


----------



## Keldeo

rari_teh said:


> I’m certain that many (if not most) tropes are not only very revealing about one’s alignment as mafia/town/independent, but also provides much insight about one’s gimmick/power. Besides, if there is indeed a Trope Killer, well, you’re the killer’s phonebook.


Negrek said she only learns the tropes of people who are already dead, so I don't see how this is that powerful in the way you say it is?


----------



## Novae

I’m sorta starting to get better vibes from keldeo’s posts

might be easier to form reads if I could remember who’s in this game


----------



## rari_teh

IndigoEmmy said:


>


----------



## Novae

ugh how do you iso people on this forum


----------



## Butterfree

Mist1422 said:


> ugh how do you iso people on this forum


You can click the "Search" button, select "This thread" instead of "Everywhere", and type the name of a player in the "By: Member" box.


----------



## kyeugh

i agree with your take on jack, keldeo.

unfortunately i think most of the information we have rn is not that useful for determining who to lynch _today_. negrek's claim seems unfalsifiable for the time being, and vm's will come to light in the morning. i don't really feel that we are any closer to understanding who scum is right now. i suppose the day is still young... mm. i don't really know what the best way forward is. definitely not emojiposting though.


----------



## Negrek

rari_teh said:


> I’m certain that many (if not most) tropes are not only very revealing about one’s alignment as mafia/town/independent, but also provides much insight about one’s gimmick/power. Besides, if there is indeed a Trope Killer, well, you’re the killer’s phonebook.


I only learn the tropes of people after they die, so we already know all their alignment info. Given the nature of this game, it's entirely possible that posthumous trope information may actually be useful to have somehow. However, off the bat I'm not seeing it, which is why I was comfotable claiming earlier than I usually would; I don't see what sitting on a bunch of dead people's tropes would get me. A bit salty that if I'd waited the whole thing would have been cleared up without me saying anything, but last night I didn't want us to get too into the weeds on "is JackPK dead or not," so I figured then was as good a time as any.


----------



## rari_teh

Keldeo said:


> Negrek said she only learns the tropes of people who are already dead, so I don't see how this is that powerful in the way you say it is?


…how could I have not computed that. My bad, I completely forgot that her power is contingent to the dead. I took mental notes through the first 18-odd pages before commenting, and memories sure got fuzzy.

I withdraw my assessment of her powers’s powerfulness.


----------



## Novae

Butterfree said:


> You can click the "Search" button, select "This thread" instead of "Everywhere", and type the name of a player in the "By: Member" box.


appreciated but also where is the search button


----------



## Boquise

kokorico said:


> Phew thank god I finally caught up.
> 
> 
> If this was addressed at me, then the only thing that's changed about my opinions since my last post is that I don't really see why we're still hypothesising about JackPK secretly being mafia. The only reason the possibility came up was that VM slightly misread his role (or so he claims), and the only other piece of evidence is the flavour text, which everyone seems to agree is unreliable at best and conceivably might be actively misleading.
> 
> I also have, if I've got the local lingo right, "half a scumread" on somebody, but as I'm not nearly as experienced as most of you, I feel like it would be unwise to start pointing the finger of suspicion without being more confident. But if there is general consensus that I probably ought to share, I'll happily do so.
> 
> 
> Don't worry too much about it! Roleclaiming doesn't necessarily make you a target. If you were telling the truth, then as you've now given away all your information, your role is essentially the same as a vanilla townie. If I were the mafia, I would be focusing on trying to identify and kill the power roles instead of just offing you. (Granted, the TCoD meta may be different from what I'm used to, and this is hardly a normal game, but still.)


----------



## kyeugh

Mist1422 said:


> appreciated but also where is the search button


it's part of the bar at the top of the page


----------



## Novae

kyeugh said:


> it's part of the bar at the top of the page


oh i c ty


----------



## Boquise

you guys better enjoy that meme

My browser froze and my task manager crashed so I had reboot the laptop, which made Windows believe it was the first time I had started the laptop so it ran the whole Windows set-up with me before letting me back. Needless to say, I spent the last hour eating ice cream tbh


----------



## Novae

I appreciate you and your memes tbh boq


----------



## rari_teh

The joys of Windows


----------



## Boquise

Thank you tbh


----------



## rari_teh

Well, I better start working on my essay. For those who don’t know me, that absolutely does *not* mean that I will sign off.


----------



## kyeugh

i actually do have to go eat rq so bbl


----------



## Mawile

In the meantime, I'd like to start a petition to call mafia "dark garys" and non-mafia "light garys".


----------



## Eifie

Mawile said:


> In the meantime, I'd like to start a petition to call mafia "dark garys" and non-mafia "light garys".


I'm a gray gary


----------



## Mr. Ultracool

Shouldn't we start to lynch one of those we think to be "dark garys"?
Until further notice, I'll

*abstain*

.


----------



## Boquise

rari_teh said:


> Well, I better start working on my essay. For those who don’t know me, that absolutely does *not* mean that I will sign off.


This is very nostalgic tbh. Had this been just two years ago, but at the same time (01:29), and deadline at 10:00 or something for some reason, I'd be right with you refreshing the page, eating ice cream and not working on my essay tbh


----------



## Boquise

Eifie said:


> I'm a gray gary


is that an indie claim tbh


----------



## Keldeo

Mr. Ultracool said:


> Shouldn't we start to lynch one of those we think to be "dark garys"?
> Until further notice, I'll
> 
> *abstain*
> 
> .


Do you have any particular suspects or people you trust so far, and why? I feel like your contributions have been pretty mechanics-focused so far - there's nothing wrong with that, just wondering if you've got any other thoughts.


----------



## Eifie

Sometimes I wonder if I should stop voting my fellow mason, but then I think:

[vengefully]


----------



## Eifie

Eifie said:


> Sometimes I wonder if I should stop voting my fellow mason, but then I think:
> 
> [vengefully]





Spoiler



(also I've been waiting _ages_ for someone to ask me why I'm voting my fellow mason so I can say "social distancing"


----------



## Mawile

Eifie said:


> why I'm voting my fellow mason


Hey Eifie, how come you're voting your fellow mason?


----------



## Eifie

Mawile said:


> Hey Eifie, how come you're voting your fellow mason?


social distancing.

*drops mic*


----------



## Eifie

Okay I'm gonna make a rare game-related post.

@kokorico I'm interested in hearing about your half a scumread! idc if you think it's silly or whatever, tell us about it.


----------



## Butterfree

To clarify this game's relation to the original TV Tropes Mafia: some concepts and overall themes carry over, as well as some roles. I did not include any of the twists Eifie could remember from the previous game, or otherwise any real _secrets_ that would give certain players from the previous game an unfair advantage. There are commonalities, and talking about the previous game is worthwhile to some extent, but the previous game does not give information that applies to this one - just because something was true there does not mean it's true here.


----------



## Butterfree

And yes, old TV Tropes Mafia never finished because everyone just lost interest, couldn't keep up with the thread, and stopped sending in their night actions. Please don't do that this time


----------



## Negrek

I appear to have deleted my role PM from the previous TVTropes Mafia game, and I am COLOSSALLY mad about it.


----------



## Mawile

Negrek said:


> I appear to have deleted my role PM from the previous TVTropes Mafia game, and I am COLOSSALLY mad about it.


Yeah, I wish I could see mine too. :/


----------



## Eifie

Negrek said:


> I appear to have deleted my role PM from the previous TVTropes Mafia game, and I am COLOSSALLY mad about it.


Aw man I kind of wanted to ask you what the trope was for your doctor role. Or it might've been Clover's. One of you was the lover and the other was a doctor.


----------



## Negrek

Eifie said:


> Aw man I kind of wanted to ask you what the trope was for your doctor role. Or it might've been Clover's. One of you was the lover and the other was a doctor.


That was TVTropes Mafia??? I was Clover's lover one time, but I thought that was Tales of Symphonia Mafia (which was also huge and crazy).


----------



## Eifie

Negrek said:


> That was TVTropes Mafia??? I was Clover's lover one time, but I thought that was Tales of Symphonia Mafia (which was also huge and crazy).


No, you were alien in ToS mafia!

God, I wish I had this good a memory for like. idk. my studies.


----------



## M&F

cor blimey, this thread was long enough before I took a nap and then there was the double postening

I need to start writing it down if I get reads on people too, because at this point I should know better than to rely on my memory

now then, as for productive post things... and woof, I'm going to start typing this after an entire dinner, so, time to be even more late to everything:

so, was indigoemmy claiming Mysterious Informant with the same info hopeandjoy had back in the day, or are we still waiting on the info? because thaaaat would make it even weirder to have a Deadly Doctor (presumably no longer) running around as that'd straight up be a third flavor
fwiw I'm still considering it a possibility that VM was lying about the backup thing and the neglected extra detail was a fabrication; mafiosi pull that pretty often with their fakeclaims. I'm not lending that theory any further credence at the moment than that it's technically possible, but it sure is
I also do think there's a solid likelihood that VM will croak next -- possibly because the mafia is invested in keeping Jack's secrets, sure, but moreso because the mafia would get a two-for-one in containing information from town and also offing someone who can, by the next day, turn himself into a confirmed innocent. and if Negrek isn't mafia, then getting people raring to lynch her would just be the cherry on top of the cake


----------



## kyeugh

pretty much agree with that mf

i think it's _possible_ that vm is lying, but... it seems like kind of pointless conjecture imo, atm the claim doesn't and hasn't really helped him in any way and it'll either turn out to be legit or not tomorrow so i don't think it matters that much right now

i am pretty sure emmy straight up claimed mysterious informant yeah.  i'm not sure i really understand wtf that means though, hope's post was kind of confusing to me and also i only tried reading it once


----------



## Eifie

I would absolutely not endorse lynching Negrek or even looking much more closely at her tomorrow if VM dies smh. I'm honestly happy to just accept both claims for now

yes, IndigoEmmy claimed Mysterious Informant. Mysterious Informants in the last game were vanilla town who got a bit of extra (mysterious) information about the setup in their role PMs. she got the exact same information that hope got in the previous TV Tropes game, so there's a mechanic that Butterfree is reusing.

also @M&F: in the previous game there were the two warring doctor types that the mysterious informants knew about, and there was also a mafia doctor or anti-healer or something (Tailsy). I am pretty sure she was not one of those two doctor types.


----------



## Herbe

mf I'm mostly on the same page as you but I just wanted to call to your attention


M&F said:


> cherry on top of the cake


just what exact kind of meal did you just eat? this is suspicious.... gotta scumread ya for it

/jk i just have nothing more insightful at the moment


----------



## Eifie

Oh yeah so when I was browsing to see if there was anything useful about Tailsy's role (there doesn't seem to have been) I remembered that Dannichu made this really helpful set of cliffnotes that people kept referring to. Please enjoy: https://forums.dragonflycave.com/threads/tv-tropes-mafia-day-7.11455/page-28#post-455015


----------



## rari_teh

Dannichu said:


> *Re: TV Tropes Mafia [DAY 5]*
> 
> Day 1* (page 1-10):


*looks at current page number*
Holy shit


----------



## M&F

Eifie said:


> yes, IndigoEmmy claimed Mysterious Informant. Mysterious Informants in the last game were vanilla town who got a bit of extra (mysterious) information about the setup in their role PMs. she got the exact same information that hope got in the previous TV Tropes game, so there's a mechanic that Butterfree is reusing.
> 
> also @M&F: in the previous game there were the two warring doctor types that the mysterious informants knew about, and there was also a mafia doctor or anti-healer or something (Tailsy). I am pretty sure she was not one of those two doctor types.


the one and the two I gathered; what I'm not clear on is, did indigoemmy also claim to have that information in the current game, or has indigoemmy just not... informed us yet? because in the former case, cfr my earlier bafflement, but in the latter case, well, indigoemmy better spill it before it ends up being too late



Herbe said:


> mf I'm mostly on the same page as you but I just wanted to call to your attention
> 
> just what exact kind of meal did you just eat? this is suspicious.... gotta scumread ya for it
> 
> /jk i just have nothing more insightful at the moment


look, if I didn't stick the landing with the idiom there, it'd be because I don't even like cherries on dessert anyway! I have no way of figuring that one out!


----------



## Eifie

M&F said:


> the one and the two I gathered; what I'm not clear on is, did indigoemmy also claim to have that information in the current game, or has indigoemmy just not... informed us yet? because in the former case, cfr my earlier bafflement, but in the latter case, well, indigoemmy better spill it before it ends up being too late


maybe she deleted more of her posts? she definitely confirmed it though


----------



## Eifie

IndigoEmmy said:


> Oh, MY GOSH! spot on
> there really are two edgy doctors





IndigoEmmy said:


> my power is exospeak and what she said





IndigoEmmy said:


> yes nanobots and mumbo jumbo magic doctors who hate eachother.





IndigoEmmy said:


> I mean the nanobots belong to a doctor


for M&F


----------



## Eifie

I'm gonna take the coward's way out and vote *Odie_Pie* who hasn't been on tcodf since April 1st because I'm having so much fun with everyone and don't want anyone who's actually posting to die


----------



## rari_teh

Eifie said:


> I'm gonna take the coward's way out and vote *Odie_Pie* who hasn't been on tcodf since April 1st because I'm having so much fun with everyone and don't want anyone who's actually posting to die


You know, there’s this neat little feature called abstention…


----------



## kyeugh

posting is a terminal disease and everyone who does it deserves to die. that’s a rule of the internet


----------



## Eifie

rari_teh said:


> You know, there’s this neat little feature called abstention…


no, lynching people we won't be able to sort any other way is important! I just can't bring myself to PoE (process of elimination) lynch people who are actually posting d1.


----------



## kyeugh

rari_teh said:


> You know, there’s this neat little feature called abstention…


but why


----------



## Herbe

I'm with Eifie on this actually
*Odie_Pie *


----------



## Zori

We should lynch someone D1
which is why we should unvote and not abstain


----------



## Eifie

I probably should have waited to put my vote down but it's not like I was bothering to make proper use of my vote to pressure people anyway

who knows, maybe kokorico's half-scum-read will blow me away and this won't actually be my final vote


----------



## M&F

rari_teh said:


> You know, there’s this neat little feature called abstention…


there is! cowards do it, usually! and I'm doing something marginally better than that right now!


----------



## kyeugh

why pressure to vote at all rn


----------



## rari_teh

Okay, okay, let’s do this then: if Odie-Pie doesn’t post until the very last hours of d1, everybody who isn’t adamant about their vote votes on Odie-Pie.


----------



## Mawile

Butterfree said:


> There may be shenanigans.


----------



## rari_teh

Or we vote on RedneckPhoenix, who didn’t pop in here at all yet has been active on the forums on other threads


----------



## Herbe

I mean we could at least ping him first. 

Hi @RedneckPhoenix ! What's up? I understand you probably don't have time to read 30 something pages but how's it going? Any thoughts?


----------



## Eifie

rari_teh said:


> Or we vote on RedneckPhoenix, who didn’t pop in here at all yet has been active on the forums on other threads


I picked Odie_Pie over RNP because RNP is actually on Telegram so Butterfree can always just prod him like "hey, the game is happening, go play" while as far as I know she has no way to contact Odie_Pie.

I'm now kind of annoyed that I went and did that because I didn't think about the fact that I now have to chill with that vote for 48 more hours.


----------



## kyeugh

am i missing something or can you not just revote


----------



## Eifie

kyeugh said:


> am i missing something or can you not just revote


I can but whomst.


----------



## kyeugh

oh idk. i thought you were saying you were locked into that vote until eod fsr


----------



## Eifie

Eifie said:


> I can but whomst.


(also the point was it's pretty hollow now that it's like, well, I'm probably gonna end up back there at the end of the day anyway.)


----------



## Keldeo

The Day is young, Eifie!



rari_teh said:


> Okay, okay, let’s do this then: if Odie-Pie doesn’t post until the very last hours of d1, everybody who isn’t adamant about their vote votes on Odie-Pie.


Why did you support abstaining rather than lynching Odie-Pie at first, I don't quite understand?

Also, you talked about a suspicion you were keeping under wraps in #254. Would you mind talking about that now or do you still want to keep it hidden?

Also also, could you briefly describe your background with mafia, if you haven't already - I forget if you mentioned somewhere?

--

@Butterfree, what happens if votes are tied at the deadline?

Given the typical TCoDf meta, I doubt that Butterfree would make it a d1 abstain game-ruining for town or something. And I feel like we should just let the chips fall where they may regarding votes - I don't want to push anyone into voting something they don't believe in. But given the nonzero amount of content so far today, I'd prefer to lynch someone.


----------



## Butterfree

I think I'd go with a random tiebreak this time around, probably, since extending the day to make you discuss this even more would just make this game even more nightmarishly long


----------



## M&F

god I thought butterfree meant _now_ and that gave me a start


----------



## RedneckPhoenix

jesus fucking christ guys


----------



## RedneckPhoenix

like it's been a little more than 24 hours. it's at least 20 posts per hour, definitely more. how


----------



## Mawile

RedneckPhoenix said:


> like it's been a little more than 24 hours. it's at least 20 posts per hour, definitely more. how


We like to talk.


----------



## Eifie

The more people go "wtf" at the post count, the more tempted I am to show off these postcounts after d1 in an 8-player game I played in recently (I'm bbt!)


----------



## Eifie

Eifie said:


> The more people go "wtf" at the post count, the more tempted I am to show off these postcounts after d1 in an 8-player game I played in recently (I'm bbt!)


(for further shock value I should also mention that day phase was only 24 hours long )


----------



## Negrek

Eifie said:


> No, you were alien in ToS mafia!
> 
> God, I wish I had this good a memory for like. idk. my studies.


Looking back, you're right! ToS Mafia was the game where I died immediately and was pissed because my role was super cool and I'd been so excited to play it. And yes, TVTropes Mafia does indeed appear to be the game where I was Clover's lover, which means that it was also the game where I got overwhelmed and shamefully ghosted on her, which is likely why all my associated private messages are deleted. Unfortunately I can't remember what was going on with the doctor thing or what was up with that ring of ~5 people who were associated somehow, other than confirming that yeah, I was definitely lovers with Clover.

In any case, rereading the old TVTropes Mafia thread to figure out more about that was very enlightening, and I recommend doing that if you can stomach it or at least taking a look at the summary link Eifie posted.



M&F said:


> because thaaaat would make it even weirder to have a Deadly Doctor (presumably no longer) running around as that'd straight up be a third flavor


Hmm, why do you think Deadly Doctor would necessarily be a third flavor? It seems to me like either someone using nanomachines _or_ someone using magic could have the power to kill as well as heal. And if one of them is a killer while the other only heals, it wouldn't be surprising that the two would hate each other... The previous TVT Mafia had at least three doctors, in any case, and all of them apparently of different flavors. More than three would be a _lot_ for a 25-person setup, but if Butterfree was fond of what she'd done with the doctor roles last time, I could plausibly see three running around out there, although I'd certainly hope there wouldn't be more.

At this point I don't have any strong suspicions about anyone. I was initially suspicious of VM, and I think failed backup would be a good claim for a mafioso, as it's low-profile and difficult to disprove. Bringing it up right away would be a sort of weird move, though, and misreading the role PM is super relatable, no particular reason to doubt that that's what happened. At this point I'm just curious to see how what info VM comes back with tomorrow, if he survives. I think IndigoEmmy is very likely to be innocent. Would love to hear more from people who haven't posted much yet.


----------



## rari_teh

Keldeo said:


> Why did you support abstaining rather than lynching Odie-Pie at first, I don't quite understand?


I supported abstaining first because I think it may not be wise to kill off somebody who has a higher chance to be town than mafia – we know absolutely nothing about her and there are more townsfolk than mafiosi. But then again, if she doesn’t show up on d1 at all and nobody knows her outside of the site, might as well kill the inactive.



Keldeo said:


> Also, you talked about a suspicion you were keeping under wraps in #254. Would you mind talking about that now or do you still want to keep it hidden?


Well… I didn’t want to say anything because my suspicion might not have passed through the mafiosi’s heads, and if it’s true and they find out, the player in question would be boned… Though now I have a better explanation for that, so I might as well say everything.

I thought that Seshas could be an infiltrator. As in, a non-mafia that had access to the mafia chatroom, or to parts of its log. That would explain their cryptic comments on the mafia pulling strings around. But now that I know of the existence of Mysterious Informants, I reckon it’s more likely that they’re one.



Keldeo said:


> Also also, could you briefly describe your background with mafia, if you haven't already - I forget if you mentioned somewhere?


Took enough time until someone asked, lol. As some might’ve suspected, this is my first time playing Mafia. I mean, once upon a time, when I was like 12, I used to play a(n offline) game we called _Detective_ which is quite possibly related to Mafia – it involved drawing cards (as in regular French deck playing cards) to determine roles and winking at people to kill them (if you’re a mafioso). There was no day/night mechanic, no special powers or gimmicks, no aliens and no GM, but there were mafiosi, detectives, _innocents_ and sometimes doctors (who’d blow the dead a kiss to bring them back to life). It was very _not mafia_, but it was similar.



Eifie said:


> The more people go "wtf" at the post count, the more tempted I am to show off these postcounts after d1 in an 8-player game I played in recently (I'm bbt!)


WTF?! That’s more comments than about two thirds of the posts in r/all!


----------



## rari_teh

Negrek said:


> Clover's lover


How appropriate


----------



## kyeugh

rari_teh said:


> I thought that Seshas could be an infiltrator. As in, a non-mafia that had access to the mafia chatroom, or to parts of its log. That would explain their cryptic comments on the mafia pulling strings around. But now that I know of the existence of Mysterious Informants, I reckon it’s more likely that they’re one.


i am very interested in this theory.

for one thing, i think if seshas were town and had information about something like this, they would say it outright rather than beating around the bush. the coyness doesn’t protect them from the scum who already know what they’re talking about, it only makes things unclear for town. so i disagree that seshas is more likely to be a mysterious informant.

i have other reasons for being drawn to this idea, but voting *seshas *for now. i have a long drive tomorrow and need to sleep. will be inactive tomorrow until the evening. gn y’all


----------



## Eifie

bruh Seshas is really obviously mysterious informant lol, those were the reasons I've been talking about all day


----------



## kyeugh

i don’t think it’s that obvious. obvious would be if they were forthright with their information—currently we know THEY know something, but not how, and they are intentionally cagey about revealing it. vaguely hinting at useful information does not smack of town to me.


----------



## Negrek

Well, infiltrator is an interesting option. Ordinarily I would say that role doesn't strike me as Butterfree's style; I imagine it's been used in a couple games here before, but it's very rare.

On the _other_ hand, there was a player who claimed essentially that plus, like, five other abilities in the previous game, so who knows? I dearly hope that if that role was real and not just an elaborate lie, Butterfree would not have chosen to reprise it, but maybe an infiltrator without all the . It doesn't seem _likely_ to me that that's what Seshas' role is, but it is _possible_. And on that note, @Eifie, was what was up with Adriane's role something that you found out about? Because good lord.

But back to this game. I don't follow why Seshas would necessarily want to give up that they're an infiltrator right off if they were town? That's obviously a super powerful role, and one where you're going to get a ton more information if you keep quiet and go with the flow for a while. They would be making themselves a huge target if that was their claim, unless they were also immune to mafia kills. Unless the mafia were informed ahead of time that someone was watching them, I don't know why they would take Seshas' vagueing to mean that they had access to the mafia chat. Like, that sort of info isn't something you'd get as a standard inspector or something, but if I were mafia I don't think my mind would immediately jump to "I'm being watched" if I saw Seshas' statements.


----------



## Eifie

on forums other than tcod people don't actually go claiming their roles d1 willy-nilly smh

he was also pretty forthright about it, he said it right away and has been solving based on it ever since. since he wasn't around for the last TV Tropes mafia where there were mysterious informants he has no reason to think mafia would be able to figure out his role from those comments

Seshas and IndigoEmmy are basically lock town imo


----------



## Negrek

Haha, failed to finish a sentence. *an infiltrator without all the extra bells and whistles is a possibility.


----------



## Eifie

Negrek said:


> Well, infiltrator is an interesting option. Ordinarily I would say that role doesn't strike me as Butterfree's style; I imagine it's been used in a couple games here before, but it's very rare.
> 
> On the _other_ hand, there was a player who claimed essentially that plus, like, five other abilities in the previous game, so who knows? I dearly hope that if that role was real and not just an elaborate lie, Butterfree would not have chosen to reprise it, but maybe an infiltrator without all the . It doesn't seem _likely_ to me that that's what Seshas' role is, but it is _possible_. And on that note, @Eifie, was what was up with Adriane's role something that you found out about? Because good lord.
> 
> But back to this game. I don't follow why Seshas would necessarily want to give up that they're an infiltrator right off if they were town? That's obviously a super powerful role, and one where you're going to get a ton more information if you keep quiet and go with the flow for a while. They would be making themselves a huge target if that was their claim, unless they were also immune to mafia kills. Unless the mafia were informed ahead of time that someone was watching them, I don't know why they would take Seshas' vagueing to mean that they had access to the mafia chat. Like, that sort of info isn't something you'd get as a standard inspector or something, but if I were mafia I don't think my mind would immediately jump to "I'm being watched" if I saw Seshas' statements.


pretty sure Adriane's claimed role was 99% bullshit but I don't know for sure


----------



## Eifie

Eifie said:


> pretty sure Adriane's claimed role was 99% bullshit but I don't know for sure


also she was the mafia don.


----------



## Negrek

lol, beautiful. Reading back through that old thread and man was that ever A Claim.


----------



## kyeugh

Negrek said:


> But back to this game. I don't follow why Seshas would necessarily want to give up that they're an infiltrator right off if they were town? That's obviously a super powerful role, and one where you're going to get a ton more information if you keep quiet and go with the flow for a while. They would be making themselves a huge target if that was their claim, unless they were also immune to mafia kills.


 this is a fair analysis, but the alternate world is that they’re a mysterious informant who just has information about... something mafia related?  and imo mentioning such a thing vaguely paints a bigger target than explaining it outright, as it provides scum incentive to kill them before they reveal more. so i don’t think their behavior really makes sense in that world either.


----------



## Eifie

kyeugh said:


> this is a fair analysis, but the alternate world is that they’re a mysterious informant who just has information about... something mafia related?  and imo mentioning such a thing vaguely paints a bigger target than explaining it outright, as it provides scum incentive to kill them before they reveal more. so i don’t think their behavior really makes sense in that world either.


I mean... that's also pretty awesome because mysterious informants are basically vanilla and if mafia waste a kill on them out of fear that's a _good_ thing.

this is why it's important for people to not just spill their entire roles!


----------



## kyeugh

Eifie said:


> he was also pretty forthright about it, he said it right away and has been solving based on it ever since. l


 said what? he said he had information that suggested that the mafia were “pulling the strings behind the scenes.” i very much doubt that’s the extent of the information he received. am i missing a more illuminating post or something?


----------



## kyeugh

Eifie said:


> I mean... that's also pretty awesome because mysterious informants are basically vanilla and if mafia waste a kill on them out of fear that's a _good_ thing.


i mean... for some value of good, in the sense that it doesn’t kill a power role, sure. but “mafia don’t kill a power role” is the most likely outcome of the scum night kill this early on anyway, and it costs useful information, so it hardly seems optimal.


----------



## Mawile

I feel that Seshas' information is lacking in comparison to IndigoEmmy's, because with the latter, we got specific flavor about having two doctors, one sciencey and one magical. But then with Seshas, all he's revealed is that the mafia are "pulling strings", which seems a lot more vague in comparison? If I remember correctly, in the last game the Mysterious Informant information was more along the lines of IndigoEmmy's, where it gave something more concrete to work on. So I'm also kind of inclined to believe that maybe he's not giving us the whole thing?


----------



## rari_teh

Negrek said:


> I don't follow why Seshas would necessarily want to give up that they're an infiltrator right off if they were town? That's obviously a super powerful role, and one where you're going to get a ton more information if you keep quiet and go with the flow for a while. They would be making themselves a huge target if that was their claim, unless they were also immune to mafia kills. Unless the mafia were informed ahead of time that someone was watching them, I don't know why they would take Seshas' vagueing to mean that they had access to the mafia chat. Like, that sort of info isn't something you'd get as a standard inspector or something, but if I were mafia I don't think my mind would immediately jump to "I'm being watched" if I saw Seshas' statements.


I don't think that his behaviour indicated that he wanted to reveal his role, whatever that is – I mean, all he said was vague af. I don’t know, the informant thing was just a theory that I all but discarded when I learned that Mysterious Informants are a thing. It might as well be Epileptic Trees.


----------



## Eifie

Seshas said:


> I have some spoopy info that suggests that Mafia have a say in the death flavor
> would be more precise but idk if that's legal


I mean, this tracks perfectly well to me.


----------



## Negrek

Most of the MI infobits are pretty vague/cryptic, so I could buy Seshas having gotten one that suggested that the flavor text was untrustworthy and which might have even said "the mafia are pulling strings behind the scenes" in so many words, and then not much more than that.

I could see it going either way. Providing that sort of vague info could be a sign that you know more or have ways of learning more, and the mafia would be wise to kill you. Or, because it's a pretty minor piece of info and it's not clear where it came from, the mafia might be willing to let it slide in favor of looking for known powerful roles. Really depends on who else they saw as potential targets, I'd say. I feel like people tend to be vague early in the game, and while I definitely raised an eyebrow over Seshas' posts, they didn't strike me as super mafia-indicative, either. I agree that vague hinty-hinting isn't the most town thing ever, but it also doesn't ping strongly non-town to me in this case, either.


----------



## Eifie

kyeugh said:


> i mean... for some value of good, in the sense that it doesn’t kill a power role, sure. but “mafia don’t kill a power role” is the most likely outcome of the scum night kill this early on anyway, and it costs useful information, so it hardly seems optimal.


baiting nightkills is a VT's ultimate goal in several communities including I'm pretty sure the one Seshas comes from

not that I think it's particularly relevant because idk if he was thinking this hard about it, my point is just that I really really strongly believe that being vague about one's role is not suspicious behavior.


----------



## kyeugh

re negrek, agreed that this isn’t damning but i do feel worse about it than anything else at this point


----------



## rari_teh

Eifie said:


> pretty sure Adriane's claimed role was 99% bullshit but I don't know for sure


I mean, I wasn’t even in that game and just by Negrek’s account of it I’m already 99% sure it was bullshit. Why would Butterfree make such an OP role



Mawile said:


> I feel that Seshas' information is lacking in comparison to IndigoEmmy's, because with the latter, we got specific flavor about having two doctors, one sciencey and one magical. But then with Seshas, all he's revealed is that the mafia are "pulling strings", which seems a lot more vague in comparison? If I remember correctly, in the last game the Mysterious Informant information was more along the lines of IndigoEmmy's, where it gave something more concrete to work on. So I'm also kind of inclined to believe that maybe he's not giving us the whole thing?


Maybe IndigoEmmy was more eager to share what she knows, maybe Seshas’s informant powers are more limited, if that makes any kind of sense. For all we know, Emmy could be playing 4D chess and claiming to be a Mysterious Informant using recycled information from the last game to be seen as an obvious townie (to be clear: this is just me stating a remote yet concrete possibility. I almost fully believe that Emmy is indeed a MI vanilla townie).


----------



## kyeugh

Eifie said:


> baiting nightkills is a VT's ultimate goal in several communities including I'm pretty sure the one Seshas comes from
> 
> not that I think it's particularly relevant because idk if he was thinking this hard about it, my point is just that I really really strongly believe that being vague about one's role is not suspicious behavior.


i might agree if the theoretical role in question was anything other than “i have a specific piece of useful information”


----------



## mewtini

reaffirming that i'm alive and returning with a few gems/things i agree with from the last LITERALLY 20 pages



Eifie said:


> The most suspicious of them all. I think this should be today's lynch.
> *vote: [/hide]*





Mawile said:


> In the meantime, I'd like to start a petition to call mafia "dark garys" and non-mafia "light garys".





Eifie said:


> I would absolutely not endorse lynching Negrek or even looking much more closely at her tomorrow if VM dies smh. I'm honestly happy to just accept both claims for now





Negrek said:


> I was initially suspicious of VM, and I think failed backup would be a good claim for a mafioso, as it's low-profile and difficult to disprove. Bringing it up right away would be a sort of weird move, though, and misreading the role PM is super relatable, no particular reason to doubt that that's what happened. At this point I'm just curious to see how what info VM comes back with tomorrow, if he survives. I think IndigoEmmy is very likely to be innocent. Would love to hear more from people who haven't posted much yet.





kyeugh said:


> for one thing, i think if seshas were town and had information about something like this, they would say it outright rather than beating around the bush.


is it possible that this is just a part of the trope? i'm uncomfortable with going after seshas when, even if they haven't volunteered all of what was meant by their "intel", they've still helped analysis in a fair few ways beyond it


----------



## rari_teh

Sorry for asking what’s probably a highly stupid question, but what on Earth is a VT?


----------



## Eifie

also last game one mysterious informant was told something that paraphrased as "someone in the mafia is genre-savvy (link to trope page about genre-savvy) so yeah there were some mysterious informant hints that seemed basically useless


----------



## Eifie

rari_teh said:


> Sorry for asking what’s probably a highly stupid question, but what on Earth is a VT?


sorry! it's vanilla town, i.e. someone with no powers. don't apologize, I'm trying not to use lingo but I'm so used to it that I forget sometimes.


----------



## Negrek

rari_teh said:


> Sorry for asking what’s probably a highly stupid question, but what on Earth is a VT?


"Vanilla Town(ie)", an innocent-aligned player with no powers.


----------



## mewtini

also in the event that there are possibly mysterious informants (and that indigoemmy wasn't lying about it) ... indigoemmy also seemed somewhat forced to obscure information in a way that seemed like it wasn't entirely her choice (even if she was enjoying it, lol) which makes me less likely to suspect anything about seshas just yet


----------



## Herbe

Seshas said:


> I have info that says that mafia are pulling strings behind the curtain
> from which I inferred that Mafia doctoring the flavor is a possibility


I'm kinda spectating this discussion but I'd figure I'd be helpful and throw out seshas's specific claim here. To be frank, I still townread seshas. I think kyeugh is kinda reaching w this vote, and that seshas's behavior is overall more townish, even if its a different type of townish than we're used to.


----------



## mewtini

in the time it took me to type that, literally 5 posts came up. i love to see it


----------



## Eifie

mewtini said:


> also in the event that there are possibly mysterious informants (and that indigoemmy wasn't lying about it) ... indigoemmy also seemed somewhat forced to obscure information in a way that seemed like it wasn't entirely her choice (even if she was enjoying it, lol) which makes me less likely to suspect anything about seshas just yet


hmm, I think she was just doing it for fun


----------



## mewtini

Herbe said:


> I'm kinda spectating this discussion but I'd figure I'd be helpful and throw out seshas's specific claim here. To be frank, I still townread seshas. I think kyeugh is kinda reaching w this vote, and that seshas's behavior is overall more townish, even if its a different type of townish than we're used to.


frankly it makes me uncomfortable/somewhat suspicious that kyeugh is this set on voting seshas out when i don't think that anyone else is doing anything but townread them right now


----------



## mewtini

Eifie said:


> hmm, I think she was just doing it for fun


that's fair! i'm not super compelled, it just seemed like a possible pattern, especially when i don't feel like seshas was being coy just to fuck with us all


----------



## Eifie

okay now that I'm feeling comforted that people aren't going to jump on the person who I've thought was the most obvious town in the thread I'm gonna take a breath and go to sleep. :p see y'all tomorrow!


----------



## Eifie

mewtini said:


> frankly it makes me uncomfortable/somewhat suspicious that kyeugh is this set on voting seshas out when i don't think that anyone else is doing anything but townread them right now


reminder to self, check out qva's votes on people in my meme game tomorrow and see if I should be worried about having her in my town pile


----------



## Herbe

goodnight eifie! don't bite the bedbugs! :>


----------



## kyeugh

i don’t really want to get into the weeds too much on this bc this minor lean is not a hill i want to die on but by his own admission seshas has information that he has not expressed yet (“i would be more precise but”)

the vote was to put pressure on him to get him to explain himself (the day is like 1/3 over, who is voting to lynch right now?) and i thought that was kind of transparent tbh, i find it kind of odd that he is being defended like this

not removing my vote until he explains a bit since that was the point of it


----------



## mewtini

mewtini said:


> that's fair! i'm not super compelled, it just seemed like a possible pattern, especially when i don't feel like seshas was being coy just to fuck with us all


also as a followup to this (might be a reach, i just really don't think seshas is anything but town atm) if seshas & indigoemmy both have mysterious informant, i don't think it would take anything more than "you can't say xyz without obscuring it somewhat" for indigoemmy to go ham with it in the way that she did, and it would make sense when seshas was being (imo?) helpful while not entirely roleclaiming or beating around the bush. i don't see being roundabout as an automatic scumflag



Eifie said:


> go to sleep. :p see y'all tomorrow!


niiiight


----------



## rari_teh

mewtini said:


> frankly it makes me uncomfortable/somewhat suspicious that kyeugh is this set on voting seshas out when i don't think that anyone else is doing anything but townread them right now


I must say, before that post I didn’t think anything of qva. Now I can’t help but suspect her of being mafia.



Eifie said:


> sorry! it's vanilla town, i.e. someone with no powers. don't apologize, I'm trying not to use lingo but I'm so used to it that I forget sometimes.


No, it’s perfectly fine! It’s me who should, as they say, _lurk moar_.


----------



## rari_teh

kyeugh said:


> who is voting to lynch right now?


Pretty much everybody?


----------



## rari_teh

Eifie said:


> okay now that I'm feeling comforted that people aren't going to jump on the person who I've thought was the most obvious town in the thread I'm gonna take a breath and go to sleep. :p see y'all tomorrow!


Good night! See ya later :3


----------



## kyeugh

i very much doubt anyone has placed a vote yet with the full intention of lynching


----------



## rari_teh

I don’t doubt, but I ain’t sure either.


----------



## Eifie

my vote on Keldeo was with full intention of lynching!!!

also I felt I should be explicit that at the moment I'm not super uncomfortable with qva's vote and just want to look into previous games to be sure

I was just instinctively like "what??? no!!!" at the reasoning but I can fully appreciate finding behavior one is not used to suspicious because in my first real mafia game I tunneled town because I thought it was super suspicious that they were intent on self-preservation when they were a competing wagon for lynch and everyone else was like "no Eifie that's literally how we play the game here" and I ignored them. hehe.


----------



## rari_teh

I spy with my little eye a user who was last seen in a private conversation according to The Forum Gods™. I wonder if that’s an indication of being mafia. Probably not, because I wasn’t suspecting of them, but still.

I think imma go to sleep now. It’s three in the morning here. Nighty night everyone, it’s been a pleasure <3


----------



## kyeugh

that checks out! i don’t find your behavior all that suspicious either, just kinda unexpected i suppose

also ngl i COMPLETELY forgot about the meme game and just got a brain blast skimming its summary. how could i forget!? it produced my most beloved content after all


----------



## Herbe

goodnight rari_teh! it's 1 am for me but I have a feeling my sleep cycle won't let me sleep for a whiiiile


----------



## Eifie

rari_teh said:


> I spy with my little eye a user who was last seen in a private conversation according to The Forum Gods™. I wonder if that’s an indication of being mafia. Probably not, because I wasn’t suspecting of them, but still.
> 
> I think imma go to sleep now. It’s three in the morning here. Nighty night everyone, it’s been a pleasure <3


hehe, they could always just be rechecking their role PM, or asking the GM a question, or messaging someone else about something completely unrelated! generally I think using such information to make reads is probably not encouraged, though I don't think there's an explicit rule against it?

I swear I'm going to sleep now


----------



## kyeugh

yeah i feel like i’m gonna suffer driving down i95 for six hours on as many hours of sleep but w/e. gn fr


----------



## Eifie

kyeugh said:


> that checks out! i don’t find your behavior all that suspicious either, just kinda unexpected i suppose
> 
> also ngl i COMPLETELY forgot about the meme game and just got a brain blast skimming its summary. how could i forget!? it produced my most beloved content after all


I'm sorry I felt really bad after about responding so strongly, it's just a thing I have a really strong opinion about >_>


----------



## kyeugh

it’s ok!! i appreciate the pushback, feels decently real/towny imo and you raised good points. but ultimately it is the kind of thing i’d like to see he himself talk about before i back off too much i think. it’s the only real feeling i have about anything right now so i wanna roll with it.


----------



## rari_teh

Eifie said:


> hehe, they could always just be rechecking their role PM, or asking the GM a question, or messaging someone else about something completely unrelated! generally I think using such information to make reads is probably not encouraged, though I don't think there's an explicit rule against it?
> 
> I swear I'm going to sleep now


In my defense, I wasn’t looking for it – my cursor just happened to land on the username and, well…

If only we could post while asleep…


----------



## kyeugh

the burden of Posting while awake is already too heavy to bear


----------



## rari_teh

kyeugh said:


> yeah i feel like i’m gonna suffer driving down i95 for six hours on as many hours of sleep but w/e. gn fr


Good night! Have a safe travel ~


----------



## Eifie

rari_teh said:


> In my defense, I wasn’t looking for it – my cursor just happened to land on the username and, well…
> 
> If only we could post while asleep…


it's no problem, there's always out-of-game information like that that we just can't help noticing and having in the back of our minds when we're in a game! I just wanted to caution you against using it as the basis for a read (not that you actually were in that post, I know)


----------



## Eifie

kyeugh said:


> it’s ok!! i appreciate the pushback, feels decently real/towny imo and you raised good points. but ultimately it is the kind of thing i’d like to see he himself talk about before i back off too much i think. it’s the only real feeling i have about anything right now so i wanna roll with it.


oh yeah, could I ask what makes my response feel towny to you as opposed to hard defending a mafia teammate or something?


----------



## Keldeo

(smh I refreshed the bottom of page 27, was happy people gave the thread a break for like an hour, then saw the three new pages)

I've only skimmed this discussion (I thiiink Seshas is MI and town, but now I'm scared that villager Eifie has just fed mafia them that line) but some things I wanted to pull out -



kyeugh said:


> the vote was to put pressure on him to get him to explain himself (the day is like 1/3 over, who is voting to lynch right now?) and i thought that was kind of transparent tbh, *i find it kind of odd that he is being defended like this*





kyeugh said:


> it’s ok!! *i appreciate the pushback, feels decently real/towny imo and you raised good points.* but ultimately it is the kind of thing i’d like to see he himself talk about before i back off too much i think. it’s the only real feeling i have about anything right now so i wanna roll with it.


@kyeugh I can understand wanting to vote someone to pressure and I do want to hear Seshas's response. But where were you going / what were you thinking with the bolded part of this first quote? Did something change between these posts - if so, what?



Mawile said:


> I feel that Seshas' information is lacking in comparison to IndigoEmmy's, because with the latter, we got specific flavor about having two doctors, one sciencey and one magical. But then with Seshas, all he's revealed is that the mafia are "pulling strings", which seems a lot more vague in comparison? If I remember correctly, in the last game the Mysterious Informant information was more along the lines of IndigoEmmy's, where it gave something more concrete to work on. *So I'm also kind of inclined to believe that maybe he's not giving us the whole thing?*


@Mawile, where does this aspect put you with regard to Seshas's alignment? You've put this thought out there but I'm not entirely sure where it leads... does it make you think Seshas is more/less suspicious, MI or not an MI?


----------



## kyeugh

Keldeo said:


> @kyeugh I can understand wanting to vote someone to pressure and I do want to hear Seshas's response. But where were you going / what were you thinking with the bolded part of this first quote? Did something change between these posts - if so, what?


(last post i swear) eh nothing really changed. i do appreciate seeing eif’s take but it’s not really what i was looking for when i made the vote and i wasn’t anticipating that much resistance from a third party


----------



## kyeugh

Eifie said:


> oh yeah, could I ask what makes my response feel towny to you as opposed to hard defending a mafia teammate or something?


i don’t think seshas is mafia basically no matter what—only anti-town third party MAYBE, and solitary even then. i can’t really conceive of a situation i believe in even a little bit rn in which you are defending him for selfish reasons


----------



## Eifie

dw Keldeo I wouldn't have gone out in this limb if I wasn't super super convinced that Seshas is a mysterious informant. I haven't been wrong about a mech read yet...!

@ qva: oh hmm maybe I need to reread your posts about the vote. I was probably a bit distracted by seeing red or whatever. So what were your thoughts on the whole infiltration thing?


----------



## Mawile

Personally, I'm leaning towards Seshas as a MI, because the information and phrasing of having the "mafia pull the strings" sounds like information given to an MI, based on Eifie saying that "there were some mysterious informant hints that seemed basically useless". I was under the impression that more of them were like IndigoEmmy's based on my (admittedly brief) skim through the original thread.

It also kind of feels like Seshas was using the information to legitimately try and piece together some claims about who to be suspicious about early in the game (as in, like the first few pages). It just feels like a towny thing to do? I've never played with Seshas before, so I have no clue how he usually plays.


----------



## Keldeo

Hmm, what was your purpose in drawing the comparison with IndigoEmmy, then? The wording of your first post that I quoted seemed a little skeptical of Seshas - did your opinion change during the conversation?



Eifie said:


> dw Keldeo I wouldn't have gone out in this limb if I wasn't super super convinced that Seshas is a mysterious informant. I haven't been wrong about a mech read yet...!




Tell me how you feel about rari_teh? My eyes are kinda glazing over and I might put off focused rereading until tomorrow but I feel like they've been playing alright (in an alignment sense) given this is their first game.


----------



## Eifie

I think most of them were more like IndigoEmmy's and then there was the random-ass Genre-Savvy one that I don't think anyone could make heads nor tails of.


----------



## Mawile

My opinion did change after Eifie pointed out the one genre savvy clue given in the previous game. I was skeptical at first because I was purely drawing a comparison to IndigoEmmy's MI information and was running under the assumption that MIs had clues more along the lines of hers.


----------



## Eifie

Keldeo said:


> Hmm, what was your purpose in drawing the comparison with IndigoEmmy, then? The wording of your first post that I quoted seemed a little skeptical of Seshas - did your opinion change during the conversation?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Tell me how you feel about rari_teh? My eyes are kinda glazing over and I might put off focused rereading until tomorrow but I feel like they've been playing alright (in an alignment sense) given this is their first game.


I was actually literally thinking like 5 minutes ago while pretending to sleep that I like their posts a lot, and then started worrying that I'm just doing the thing of reading everyone who posts a lot to be town. I mean it's certainly enough to earn them a couple day passes from be barring any mech info to the contrary.

There aren't any particular posts that I can think of to point to, just like, a general "body of work" sorta thing.


----------



## rari_teh

Hehehe, I also like your posts a lot :3

There’s nobody who’s currently very high in my suspicions as of now, but I won’t deny there’s a couple of people out there that gave me some mafia vibes


----------



## Keldeo

rari_teh said:


> there’s a couple of people out there that gave me some mafia vibes


Could you tell me more?


----------



## rari_teh

Keldeo said:


> Could you tell me more?


Well… I won’t deny, for like 50% of the time I’ve been here I was pretty sure _you_ were mafia. I don’t remember exactly what post first made me think that, but… lately I’ve been reassessing that evaluation. Not entirely convinced either way.

And Mawile. I also don’t quite remember what was it (I should really have taken better notes), but something seems _off_ (sorry!). Those are more gut feelings than actual readings, anyway.

Then there’s the wide majority which I’ve never been quite sold on one way or the other, of course.


----------



## Keldeo

Thanks! It's fair to have gut feelings right now, I'd appreciate hearing a bit more about your reasoning if you get a chance.


----------



## Eifie

I feel like a lot of people have mentioned doubts about Keldeo, so I'm interested to hear what they're seeing. I kind of expected more people to be townreading him.


----------



## qenya

Eifie said:


> @kokorico I'm interested in hearing about your half a scumread! idc if you think it's silly or whatever, tell us about it.





Eifie said:


> I feel like a lot of people have mentioned doubts about Keldeo, so I'm interested to hear what they're seeing. I kind of expected more people to be townreading him.


Well, maybe I can help there!

My impressions pretty much exactly match rari_teh's. The tentative feeling I was unsure about sharing was that *Keldeo* was coming off as mafia to me. The posts since last night are starting to shift my opinion the other way, but the jury's still out.

My reasoning was that most of his posts so far, excluding tomfoolery, consisted of things that were nominally useful to town and came across as him trying to be helpful, but actually provided little new information or insight and didn't require a great deal of effort to come up with. Things like explaining mechanics and TCoD meta to new players, voting for inactive players to prod them into talking (without tagging them??), asking other people about their reads (including, once, on himself!) and summarising the town's hypotheses or collating them into lists.

He freely volunteered his reads in #65, at the top of #125, and again in #244, but other than that I don't recall seeing any actual new contributions, except last night when he voiced his support for IndigoEmmy. Though even that wasn't exactly enormously useful - I agree with everyone else who's spoken that she's highly unlikely to be pulling a fast one.

_Standard disclaimer: I don't know any of you, and have zero mafia experience on TCoD and not much anywhere else. Take my analysis with a pinch of salt._


----------



## Novae

Eifie said:


> I feel like a lot of people have mentioned doubts about Keldeo, so I'm interested to hear what they're seeing. I kind of expected more people to be townreading him.


something something hero syndrome


----------



## Zori

Ok
I'm Mysterious Informant
My piece of info is "mafia has someone pulling the strings behind the curtain"


----------



## Zori

kyeugh said:


> i don’t really want to get into the weeds too much on this bc this minor lean is not a hill i want to die on but by his own admission seshas has information that he has not expressed yet (“i would be more precise but”)


This was because I wasn't sure whether I could quote my rolecard in this particular instance


----------



## kyeugh

i have to be honest i’m not really sure what level of substance is to be expected from anyone right now. keldeo has made some useful posts—prodding and collating _are_ useful, and also just how he plays—and that’s a lot more than like half the member list has done at this point. that seems like a really weird thing to scum read him for to me, why not do the same to like the half dozen people who have actually barely posted


----------



## kyeugh

this probably seems like a really sudden reversal but after sleeping on it i’m pretty much ready to take that at face value seshas lol

in particular i think eif’s example of a basically useless MI tidbit from the previous game is changing my mind more than anything

*unvote*

how do you you feel about my push on you though


----------



## Eifie

I'll make an actual post later but, hehe, one thing people always suspect Keldeo for is for asking so many questions :p I'm actually grateful that he's been doing it for me tbh.


----------



## Vipera Magnifica

jeeeeesus my brain cannot keep up with this thread, most of our games didn't have half as many posts as this _in their entirety_. I think social media has puréed my brain and made it where I don't have the attention span for this kind of thing anymore.

I guess I won't mind if i do get offed right away. In fact, oh yeah, I forgot to mention another part of my role: I learn the name of all the mafia members on N1, and I also have unlimited daytime vigilante kills. Would be a real shame if something were to happen to me tonight~


----------



## IndigoClaudia

oh god what did i miss?


----------



## IndigoClaudia

Also how much sleep did you guys actually get last night?


----------



## Eifie

I slept almost 8 hours tyvm >:(

still too lazy to address Keldeo stuff so here's just a list of where I'm at now that I no longer have to keep secrets about people's implied roles and stuff. roughly ordered within tiers, sort of, I tried (highest = most towny)

*The Queen*
Eifie!

*My mech clears* (all totally legit, I am very powerful. fear me, mafia.)
Mist1422
Keldeo

*Town by role claim*
IndigoEmmy
Seshas

*Town For Now, Rethink Later*
Negrek
Vipera Magnifica

*Probably town I hope* (hopefully 0-1 mafia in here, 2 if I'm really bad. okay I tried to order this but it's basically just random)
mewtini
rari_teh
Herbe
kyeugh (haven't re-evaled yet. will think later. cool with this for now.)
serimachi

*I Like One Or Two Posts They Made*
Mawile
kokorico (I like the Keldeo case, doesn't feel like an opportunistic push because I feel like... Keldeo would not be the target of choice for that. he's Keldeoooo!. like he's so like friendly and nice and stuff that I feel like it would be a difficult push to try to get people to agree to because I think people just generally are more resistant to suspecting people who are friendly and nice idk.)

*Let Them Vibe*
Mr. Ultracool
M&F

*I Expect More And Hope To See More!*
@Boquise
@Panini

*The Rest Pile*
Flora
I liek Squirtles
Ottercopter
RedneckPhoenix
Stryke
Odie_Pie

huh, the rest pile is actually sorta manageable now. I highly doubt that it actually contains all the mafia though lol.


----------



## IndigoClaudia

Oh gosh now people talked about me all night like IM A SUSPECT!!??!


----------



## IndigoClaudia

Eifie said:


> I'm a gray gary


Naw, Eifie your a dark gray gary.


----------



## mewtini

Eifie said:


> *The Queen*
> Eifie!


.


----------



## Novae

Eifie can you talk to me a bit about your probably town pile minus mewtini and Herbe


----------



## IndigoClaudia

I feel underestimated...


----------



## mewtini

kyeugh said:


> i have to be honest i’m not really sure what level of substance is to be expected from anyone right now. keldeo has made some useful posts—prodding and collating _are_ useful, and also just how he plays—and that’s a lot more than like half the member list has done at this point. that seems like a really weird thing to scum read him for to me, why not do the same to like the half dozen people who have actually barely posted


quoting bc i agree and kind of didn't suspect so many early Malevolent Reads on keldeo (or the early-game suspicion of eifie from that one guy, though that might've just been a lack of familiarity with the tcodf dynamic? i can't be fucked to go back and look). part of me is a little like gut-suspicious but that's only because i'm a mafia newbie and keldeo's skill scares me lmfao


kyeugh said:


> *unvote*
> 
> how do you you feel about my push on you though


curious to hear about this from seshas, even if i still trust them for now


Vipera Magnifica said:


> I guess I won't mind if i do get offed right away. In fact, oh yeah, I forgot to mention another part of my role: I learn the name of all the mafia members on N1, and I also have unlimited daytime vigilante kills. Would be a real shame if something were to happen to me tonight~


and quoting this one for ?! value


----------



## IndigoClaudia

OK i just got caught up.


----------



## Eifie

Mist1422 said:


> Eifie can you talk to me a bit about your probably town pile minus mewtini and Herbe


Yeah. So for kyeugh it's honestly like. Very old meta. I just remember her being so uncomfortable and unwilling to engage as mafia and I know I should look more closely at this but I'm too lazy smh. I've like nodded along to most of her takes (Seshas being a glaring exception) and I feel like a lot of her posting is like stream-of-consciousness in what feels like a towny way to me. I feel like going out on a limb with that Seshas move is an attention-grabbing move that I'm not sure she'd want to do as mafia.

rari_teh I just, like, like the effort in their posting. I haven't like closely analyzed it by any means, but they feel, like, pure. It's partly tone I guess and partly just "you seem to be doing your best. that makes me happy. please live."

For serimachi, it was their post about me. I felt like they genuinely did not know that the mafia are random and that important roles aren't pre-assigned. So that would imply that either they're not mafia or they are mafia with a ~big name~ being an actual mafia boss type role. The second one is probably not that distant a possibility, but I kinda want to just ignore it for now so that I can say I have a read and cut my pile of nulls down to something more manageable.

So a lot of these are just kinda like hip-fire reads in order to try to decrease the size of my null pool for now.


----------



## mewtini

also idk if this is still a topic of discourse but i also want to like, formally take back the shade i briefly threw on kyeugh last night. i was kind of  because the way it read to me she cast suspicion on seshas without (i thought) any rationale/i kind of felt like it was a reach and i read her early explanation as a bit of an awk backpedal

but after sleeping on it and reading back through her justification and eifie talking about it after the fact i'm a bit more comforted now


----------



## Eifie

I am like almost certainly giving a mafia too much credit because they're posting and I like when people post but I'm fine with that for d1 tbh.


----------



## mewtini

Eifie said:


> I've like nodded along to most of her takes (Seshas being a glaring exception) and I feel like a lot of her posting is like stream-of-consciousness in what feels like a towny way to me. I feel like going out on a limb with that Seshas move is an attention-grabbing move that I'm not sure she'd want to do as mafia.


love that i said "idk if we're talking about this" only for the page to refresh and this to show up ..., but yeah this is what made me change my mind. at the time i thought maybe she didn't realize that there wasn't anyone else (afaik) who was suspicious of seshas and i thought maybe it was a





kind of moment but i also realized that the mechanic you mention in the last part of what i quoted could have been the reason for that


----------



## mewtini

idk why i used the word mechanic lol but. y'all know what i mean, hopefully


----------



## Eifie

mewtini said:


> love that i said "idk if we're talking about this" only for the page to refresh and this to show up ..., but yeah this is what made me change my mind. at the time i thought maybe she didn't realize that there wasn't anyone else (afaik) who was suspicious of seshas and i thought maybe it was a
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> kind of moment but i also realized that the mechanic you mention in the last part of what i quoted could have been the reason for that


lmfao I was literally going to post this tweet earlier in the game when people were complaining about so many posts just for the sorry i'm sorry bit

yeah like I should honestly probably look more closely at that kind of backpedal but also I can sympathize because after I made my posts I was like FUCK WHY DID I DO THAT and just wanted to smooth things over in any way possible because I got too intense so I can't really judge.


----------



## mewtini

heart react for the dril love



Eifie said:


> yeah like I should honestly probably look more closely at that kind of backpedal but also I can sympathize because after I made my posts I was like FUCK WHY DID I DO THAT and just wanted to smooth things over in any way possible because I got too intense so I can't really judge.


yeah i think it's kind of impossible to tell rn and i've really liked her tone aside from this, so i think i'm just going to keep it in the back of my mind for now


----------



## mewtini

take a shot every time i say 'i think' or 'maybe'


----------



## Eifie

I tried to look at the meme game (where qva was mafia) and came to the conclusion it's probably impossible to glean anything from it because it's a meme game. I did notice a lot of what felt like qva trying to shade people whenever she could in that game, though. meanwhile here I don't think she's expressed any suspicions except on Seshas and she probably could've given more at this point...? she's mostly felt like she's in the same position as me where I just. don't really actually suspect anyone.


----------



## mewtini

Eifie said:


> meanwhile here I don't think she's expressed any suspicions except on Seshas and she probably could've given more at this point...?


yeah. the fact that i think she's arguably cultivated Kinship makes me feel ok with laying off


----------



## mewtini

on that note i still don't really suspect anyone except for that cheeky mf *[/hide]*


----------



## Eifie

I am extremely pocketed by mewtini tbh and probably won't stop being so all game. just saying.


----------



## Zori

Mawile said:


> I feel that Seshas' information is lacking in comparison to IndigoEmmy's, because with the latter, we got specific flavor about having two doctors, one sciencey and one magical. But then with Seshas, all he's revealed is that the mafia are "pulling strings", which seems a lot more vague in comparison? If I remember correctly, in the last game the Mysterious Informant information was more along the lines of IndigoEmmy's, where it gave something more concrete to work on. So I'm also kind of inclined to believe that maybe he's not giving us the whole thing?


On my forum, this would be more scum indicative for the fencesitting with the tide, but it's probably skewed by TCoD people being much more commital with their votes
so in other words it's glorified null read


----------



## I liek Squirtles

Vipera Magnifica said:


> jeeeeesus my brain cannot keep up with this thread, most of our games didn't have half as many posts as this _in their entirety_. I think social media has puréed my brain and made it where I don't have the attention span for this kind of thing anymore.
> 
> I guess I won't mind if i do get offed right away. In fact, oh yeah, I forgot to mention another part of my role: I learn the name of all the mafia members on N1, and I also have unlimited daytime vigilante kills. Would be a real shame if something were to happen to me tonight~


Uhhh holy shit

This is some truly wild stuff,, which means the mafia must have some wilder stuff and now I really don't know what to expect from roles in this game lmao


----------



## Zori

I liek Squirtles said:


> Uhhh holy shit
> 
> This is some truly wild stuff,, which means the mafia must have some wilder stuff and now I really don't know what to expect from roles in this game lmao


derpcleared


----------



## Ottercopter

Vipera Magnifica said:


> jeeeeesus my brain cannot keep up with this thread, most of our games didn't have half as many posts as this _in their entirety_. I think social media has puréed my brain and made it where I don't have the attention span for this kind of thing anymore.
> 
> I guess I won't mind if i do get offed right away. In fact, oh yeah, I forgot to mention another part of my role: I learn the name of all the mafia members on N1, and I also have unlimited daytime vigilante kills. Would be a real shame if something were to happen to me tonight~


That's a pretty strong claim. How would people feel about abstaining for today and having you kill whoever we mighta voted for (like that inactive person Eifie mentioned) to test it? I guess it wouldn't technically have to be this specific day phase, just a general idea.


----------



## Ottercopter

Or is this sarcastic and I'm just really bad at discerning tone...?


----------



## Eifie

im dying

(because VM shot me. eek!)


----------



## Ottercopter

...Yeah, ignore me, I'm not thinking straight. I took "names" to mean like tropes or something, but even that would be quite a bit, huh?


----------



## Zori

Ottercopter said:


> That's a pretty strong claim. How would people feel about abstaining for today and having you kill whoever we mighta voted for (like that inactive person Eifie mentioned) to test it? I guess it wouldn't technically have to be this specific day phase, just a general idea.


*Ottercopter*
gg


----------



## Eifie

I wonder if I should think anything about two people coming into the thread at the same time to comment on VM's "claim"

god I hate killing people— I mean, ooh! blood!


----------



## mewtini

Ottercopter said:


> That's a pretty strong claim. How would people feel about abstaining for today and having you kill whoever we mighta voted for (like that inactive person Eifie mentioned) to test it? I guess it wouldn't technically have to be this specific day phase, just a general idea.


tbh i got about as far as you did and then went "oh. it's a shitpost"

fr though do we actually have any ideas other than "kill the inactive, shrug"


----------



## Zori

The vote is because he wanted to test it during this day, which is _exactly what mafia would want to make sure they don't get baited on the nightkill._


----------



## Ottercopter

It was something I'd initially waved off, but when I saw ILS's comment, I thought about it a bit more and wondered if maybe I'd been wrong to do that is all.


----------



## mewtini

Eifie said:


> I wonder if I should think anything about two people coming into the thread at the same time to comment on VM's "claim"
> 
> god I hate killing people— I mean, ooh! blood!


if they're now catching up, and read back only the last few pages, they'd see that i quoted it so it's possible they just saw it from me?


----------



## Eifie

Ottercopter said:


> It was something I'd initially waved off, but when I saw ILS's comment, I thought about it a bit more and wondered if maybe I'd been wrong to do that is all.


hmm, ok. so have you been reading everything that's been going on, then? I'd love to hear your other thoughts!


----------



## mewtini

Seshas said:


> The vote is because he wanted to test it during this day, which is _exactly what mafia would want to make sure they don't get baited on the nightkill._


ah fuck. i see your point, i wrote it off since she said she was out of practice and i figured she was just orienting herself


----------



## Eifie

mewtini said:


> ah fuck. i see your point, i wrote it off since she said she was out of practice and i figured she was just orienting herself


I think it's also something everyone just generally does here in order to confirm people's roleclaims and decide whether to trust them so idk if it's necessarily alignment-indicative


----------



## Zori

to be clear, bringing up / believing Vipera's claim isn't scummy
it just puts me off that Otter's first reaction is to ask him to prove himself


----------



## Zori

Squirtle's first reaction is mafia role-spec which pings townie unless he was intentional about trying to get derpcleared


----------



## mewtini

Seshas said:


> it just puts me off that Otter's first reaction is to ask him to prove himself


fair. i wasn't sure - it seemed like it was in response to how outlandish vm's claim was (as otter apparently didn't initially realize it was a joke), and less a "prove yourself, vig!"


----------



## Eifie

Seshas said:


> Squirtle's first reaction is mafia role-spec which pings townie unless he was intentional about trying to get derpcleared


hmm I can actually sorta vibe with that maybe


----------



## mewtini

maybe i'm just being too nice to everyone lol idk :(


----------



## Eifie

mewtini said:


> maybe i'm just being too nice to everyone lol idk :(


I don't wanna kill my friends :(


----------



## mewtini

Seshas said:


> Squirtle's first reaction is mafia role-spec which pings townie unless he was intentional about trying to get derpcleared


sorry, am unfamiliar with lingo. can you explain this to me?


----------



## Zori

mewtini said:


> maybe i'm just being too nice to everyone lol idk :(


being too nice >> being toxic


----------



## Zori

mewtini said:


> sorry, am unfamiliar with lingo. can you explain this to me?


Squirtle's first reaction to Vipera's claim was to speculate about what roles the mafia would have. Since mafia would know what roles the mafia would have, Squirtle is likely town unless he made this post intentionally to give this reaction.
If Squirtle legitimately believed Vipera's claim, it's sort of hard to believe they were so intentional on the other front.


----------



## Eifie

man I gotta learn how to make micro-reads


----------



## Ottercopter

Wondering about roles doesn't seem /that/ farfetched to me. Nobody's gonna claim to know about what other people's/alignments' roles, especially on just day 1. Just because they stuck "mafia" in front doesn't make him any more or less suspicious to me.
Aaaand I don't really have any further thoughts because they got lost between reading all 34 pages of thread. I'll try going back and keeping notes from here on. '-'


----------



## Zori

@:Ottercopter The whole read depends on Squirtle making the post without thinking too deeply about it.


----------



## mewtini

Ottercopter said:


> Wondering about roles doesn't seem /that/ farfetched to me. Nobody's gonna claim to know about what other people's/alignments' roles, especially on just day 1. Just because they stuck "mafia" in front doesn't make him any more or less suspicious to me.


his read less "oh wow! i wonder what roles are out there, oh boy! (hehehe ...)" and more "what the fuck" which makes me agree with seshas' read


----------



## mewtini

ope and then seshas said just as much


----------



## Eifie

Ottercopter said:


> Wondering about roles doesn't seem /that/ farfetched to me. Nobody's gonna claim to know about what other people's/alignments' roles, especially on just day 1. Just because they stuck "mafia" in front doesn't make him any more or less suspicious to me.
> Aaaand I don't really have any further thoughts because they got lost between reading all 34 pages of thread. I'll try going back and keeping notes from here on. '-'


Is there anything that happened that you think is important at all, even if it's not necessarily like a "thought" or anything useful to say? Like what were some things that you remember from reading?

I'm wondering because it feels a bit like you know stuff that's happening in the thread in a way that doesn't match up with your actual thread presence and I'm trying to figure out how I should feel about it. Like that you did read VM's claim before and waved it off, and that you're aware that I suggested lynching someone who hasn't been online for a while, but at the same time you don't have any further thoughts.


----------



## Mawile

Vipera Magnifica said:


> I guess I won't mind if i do get offed right away. In fact, oh yeah, I forgot to mention another part of my role: I learn the name of all the mafia members on N1, and I also have unlimited daytime vigilante kills. Would be a real shame if something were to happen to me tonight~





mewtini said:


> tbh i got about as far as you did and then went "oh. it's a shitpost"





mewtini said:


> - it seemed like it was in response to how outlandish vm's claim was (as otter apparently didn't initially realize it was a joke)


I'm confused by how we know if VM is joking or not? Is it because his role seems overpowered in addition to having the universal backup, or did I miss something else?


----------



## mewtini

Mawile said:


> I'm confused by how we know if VM is joking or not? Is it because his role seems overpowered in addition to having the universal backup, or did I miss something else?


"unlimited vigilante kills" and knowing the entire mafia roster seems like a bit much


----------



## mewtini

but tbh. idrk anymore.


----------



## Negrek

He's joking--in the same post where he says he can't handle the pace of the game, he posts an outlandishly overpowered roleclaim that has nothing to do with his previous claims. He was essentially claiming "I'm out, please kill me."

I think it's kind of great that VM's managed to cause so much wild stuff to happen already in this game, and I think entirely unintentionally? Like, I'm pretty sure he didn't intend for anybody to take his claim seriously.


----------



## Eifie

Mawile said:


> I'm confused by how we know if VM is joking or not? Is it because his role seems overpowered in addition to having the universal backup, or did I miss something else?


lol he was just saying that because he wanted to be killed n1.

I'm not sure how I can further explain how knowing who all the mafia are and being able to kill them all immediately is literally just like, god


----------



## Eifie

hard claim death miller that wins with the mafia btw


----------



## Negrek

Which incidentally, I would rather he not die because I'd really like to know what's up with the "Deadly Doctor" trope, but I get it if he wants out.


----------



## rari_teh

kokorico said:


> [a short essay on Keldeo]


Thanks for putting into words what I could not. I fully subscribe to this read.



kyeugh said:


> that seems like a really weird thing to scum read him for to me, why not do the same to like the half dozen people who have actually barely posted


I see barely posting more like a sign of laziness and/or disinterest than a sign of being scum. Ech, maybe I’m being naïve.



mewtini said:


> also idk if this is still a topic of discourse but *i also want to like, formally take back the shade i briefly threw on kyeugh last night.* i was kind of  because the way it read to me she cast suspicion on seshas without (i thought) any rationale/i kind of felt like it was a reach and i read her early explanation as a bit of an awk backpedal
> 
> but after sleeping on it and reading back through her justification and eifie talking about it after the fact i'm a bit more comforted now


So do I. I guess I just didn’t know you (qva) enough, or just was way too overran by shock and drowsiness.



mewtini said:


> fr though do we actually have any ideas other than "kill the inactive, shrug"


Talking about the inactive: I just sent @Odie_Pie an email. I hope she reads it. It would be a pity to kill off for ghosting a person who has a higher chance to be town.

Or maybe their role doesn’t allow talking during the day? Who knows…



Seshas said:


> The vote is because he wanted to test it during this day, which is _exactly what mafia would want to make sure they don't get baited on the nightkill._





Eifie said:


> it feels a bit like you know stuff that's happening in the thread in a way that doesn't match up with your actual thread presence and I'm trying to figure out how I should feel about it. Like that you did read VM's claim before and waved it off, and that you're aware that I suggested lynching someone who hasn't been online for a while, but at the same time you don't have any further thoughts.


Holy fucking shit, what an insight. I can’t unsee that now. I shall vote *Ottercopter* as well.


----------



## Eifie

mfw when my totally hilarious side-splitting joke goes unappreciated


----------



## mewtini

rari_teh said:


> I see barely posting more like a sign of laziness and/or disinterest than a sign of being scum. Ech, maybe I’m being naïve.


i think this is less an assumption of "inactives are scum" and more that when so many of us are having issues picking out suspects among the active posters, it doesn't make sense to just cull off an inactive until we get more intel? at least that's where my head is at


rari_teh said:


> I can’t unsee that now. I shall vote *Ottercopter* as well.


i'm also suspicious but i'm holding off until we're all genuinely in the voting phase


----------



## mewtini

mewtini said:


> it doesn't make sense to just cull off an inactive until we get more intel?


***it makes MORE sense.

jesus.


----------



## rari_teh

Also, between people spending pages and pages discussing the possibility that Jack’s death is a forgery, the speculation about Seshas being infiltrated in the mafia and now people seriously believing that VM’s obvious outtake was a roleclaim, Butterfree must be laughing her ass off at this moment.


----------



## Keldeo

Eifie said:


> I feel like a lot of people have mentioned doubts about Keldeo, so I'm interested to hear what they're seeing. I kind of expected more people to be townreading him.


I’ve been overwhelmed and low efforting for like the past 500 posts lol, of course people are SRing me.

I’m not here for another few hours.


----------



## mewtini

mewtini said:


> i think this is less an assumption of "inactives are scum" and more that when so many of us are having issues picking out suspects among the active posters, it makes more sense to just cull off an inactive until we get more intel? at least that's where my head is at


to this end i'm personally kind of against doing anything other than a) investigate otter more or b) lynch an inactive, for the time being. summarizing because i think my take was unclear, even if i hadn't made the rough typo


----------



## Eifie

This is gonna go in my like top 3 most stupid posts but I just hate the idea of jumping on someone who just got back in the thread. It's like, I want people come and post with me and play the game and have fun! I don't wanna punish them for posting. :( So... I wanna talk with Rebecca (Ottercopter) a bit more first!

I am fully aware that this is not in line with how one should play mafia. :p This has been eif's wax philosophical power hour


----------



## rari_teh

mewtini said:


> i think this is less an assumption of "inactives are scum" and more that when so many of us are having issues picking out suspects among the active posters, it doesn't make [more] sense to just cull off an inactive until we get more intel? at least that's where my head is at


’Tis a very valid point. I’m, for the time being, sticking with my vote, though.


----------



## Eifie

maybe we should play more stuff like resistance where you don't actually have to tell people "no, you don't get to play the game anymore, we are voting you out." 

ok i'm done


----------



## mewtini

Eifie said:


> So... I wanna talk with Rebecca (Ottercopter) a bit more first!


no i totally agree! sorry. i don't mean to imply that she's on my hitlist at all lmao, far from it. i just meant that atm the awkward reads we had on her are the only leads we have thus far so i think investigation is in order. ftr i was defending otter earlier for the same reasons you gave, i just wanted to make sure that i put it out there that i don't think we really have anything else yet, and i'm also more in favor of voting an inactive out for now


----------



## Butterfree

rari_teh said:


> Also, between people spending pages and pages discussing the possibility that Jack’s death is a forgery, the speculation about Seshas being infiltrated in the mafia and now people seriously believing that VM’s obvious outtake was a roleclaim, Butterfree must be laughing her ass off at this moment.


----------



## Eifie

https://i.imgur.com/cASGVr6.png[/img

i agree completely


----------



## mewtini

Eifie said:


> [/img


i agree completely


----------



## Eifie

gdi


----------



## Eifie

mewtini said:


> i agree completely


our next suspect


----------



## rari_teh

Eifie said:


> This is gonna go in my like top 3 most stupid posts but I just hate the idea of jumping on someone who just got back in the thread. It's like, I want people come and post with me and play the game and have fun! I don't wanna punish them for posting. :( So... I wanna talk with Rebecca (Ottercopter) a bit more first!


Even if this post was pretty stupid, it was pretty fucking cute too, ngl


----------



## Negrek

I saw the fabled "oops" gif, too, and was like, uh oh, did Butterfree realize something unfortunate about her setup? :P


----------



## mewtini

i move to lynch: *[/img*. i know we were talking about [/hide] before, but i just don't like the cut of *[/img*'s jib


----------



## mewtini

rari_teh said:


> Even if this post was pretty stupid, it was pretty fucking cute too, ngl


this has me fucking loling


----------



## mewtini

last silly remark: we really are at 700 posts huh?


----------



## Butterfree

Negrek said:


> I saw the fabled "oops" gif, too, and was like, uh oh, did Butterfree realize something unfortunate about her setup? :P


XenForo's media feature just asks for a link with no further elaboration, and I gave it one of the several links Giphy offered to me, which then apparently turned out not to be the link XenForo wanted okay

(I should have just used a regular img tag but I was like hey the new forum software has a media tag, let's try it)


----------



## Mawile

rari_teh said:


> discussing the possibility that Jack’s death is a forgery, the speculation about Seshas being infiltrated in the mafia and now people seriously believing that VM’s obvious outtake was a roleclaim,


inb4 these are all right somehow, causing Butterfree to laugh even more at our expense


----------



## Eifie

just testing


----------



## mewtini

god i haven't seen that video in a hot second. i missed her


----------



## rari_teh

Now that video was something


----------



## kyeugh

i don’t feel that strongly one way or the other about the rebecca thing tbh. i kind of don’t like rari’s vote


----------



## kyeugh

ok i have to drive again. i hope you enjoyed my deep insight


----------



## rari_teh

kyeugh said:


> i don’t feel that strongly one way or the other about the rebecca thing tbh. i kind of don’t like rari’s vote


Could you elaborate?


----------



## kyeugh

no


----------



## rari_teh

kyeugh said:


> no


I meant after you’re done driving -.-


----------



## Eifie

idk about kyeugh but I kind of wondered if the "I can't unsee it" might be a disproportionate reaction to what is a kind of meh and not necessarily scum-indicative thing. I'm too lazy to look into it tbh. peasants, do the work for me.


----------



## Ottercopter

Okay, just went through the thread again including my bad read of VM's joke claim, _yuck,_ but I still don't have any insights that someone else hasn't already said. I don't even really know how to defend myself besides just that I'm a natural lurker and I don't like to post unless I have something that could further the conversation.
Offtopic example, but I've been part of tCoD for well over a decade by now and I can recite a lot of things I remember, but I doubt anyone would be able to say much they remember about me. Hell, i was shocked when I first heard that Eifie remembered me from playing Mafia. I'll try and post more if that clears suspicion, but mostly reading and not actually contributing isn't new for me.

I guess I don't like that Seshas said we should lynch someone day 1 when there wasn't much to go by a while back? But they're also voting for me right now, so I have plenty of incentive to say that.


----------



## Ottercopter

Eifie said:


> idk about kyeugh but I kind of wondered if the "I can't unsee it" might be a disproportionate reaction to what is a kind of meh and not necessarily scum-indicative thing. I'm too lazy to look into it tbh. peasants, do the work for me.


I lost track, where did "I can't unsee it" come from?


----------



## Eifie

Ottercopter said:


> Okay, just went through the thread again including my bad read of VM's joke claim, _yuck,_ but I still don't have any insights that someone else hasn't already said. I don't even really know how to defend myself besides just that I'm a natural lurker and I don't like to post unless I have something that could further the conversation.
> Offtopic example, but I've been part of tCoD for well over a decade by now and I can recite a lot of things I remember, but I doubt anyone would be able to say much they remember about me. Hell, i was shocked when I first heard that Eifie remembered me from playing Mafia. I'll try and post more if that clears suspicion, but mostly reading and not actually contributing isn't new for me.
> 
> I guess I don't like that Seshas said we should lynch someone day 1 when there wasn't much to go by a while back? But they're also voting for me right now, so I have plenty of incentive to say that.


I think it's okay if you don't feel you have much original content to add, if you just kind of like posts you agree with (as in the actual Like button) and chime in when you can that seems cool. I'm actually really enjoying what the emoji reactions add to the game :p I think it's pretty useful to Like posts you agree with just to give people a sort of idea of where you are.

re: your other post, I was referring to what rari_teh posted when they voted you:



rari_teh said:


> Holy fucking shit, what an insight. I can’t unsee that now. I shall vote *Ottercopter* as well.


----------



## rari_teh

Eifie said:


> idk about kyeugh but I kind of wondered if the "I can't unsee it" might be a disproportionate reaction to what is a kind of meh and not necessarily scum-indicative thing. I'm too lazy to look into it tbh. peasants, do the work for me.


I think I didn’t express myself properly. When I first read Ottercopter’s reaction to VM’s outtake, I didn’t think much of it – it was just odd/amusing that the joke flew above her head. But then in came Seshas with that analysis that made sense of the whole situation with such logic that now I can’t believe in any other explanation. If Otter’s been lurking through the whole thing and didn’t bat an eye to pretty much anything, but suddenly got that defensive over the ridiculous “claim” of the existence of a severely OP townie, demanding immediate proof of it, the only plausible explanation would be that 1. she’s a mafiosa and 2. there’s no mafia counterpart to VM’s fake OP townie, because of course there’s no such thing.



Ottercopter said:


> I'll try and post more if that clears suspicion, but mostly reading and not actually contributing isn't new for me.


There’s no need to not be yourself. Not posting isn’t suspicious – at least not by my standards, but I doubt that someone disagrees. Panini and RNP barely posted and nobody’s talking about them being mafia. What is suspicious is your sudden high reaction to a misinterpreted joke of that caliber.


----------



## rari_teh

rari_teh said:


> What is suspicious is your sudden high reaction to a misinterpreted joke of that caliber.


I mean, if M&F (who posted quite a bit and isn’t particularly suspicious by my standards) had the same reaction you had, I (and Seshas, I suppose) would be voting for them.


----------



## mewtini

Eifie said:


> idk about kyeugh but I kind of wondered if the "I can't unsee it" might be a disproportionate reaction to what is a kind of meh and not necessarily scum-indicative thing. I'm too lazy to look into it tbh. peasants, do the work for me.


fwiw i can't find it now but rari_teh has responded in similar ways to any mildly interesting or against-the-grain read


Ottercopter said:


> I guess I don't like that Seshas said we should lynch someone day 1 when there wasn't much to go by a while back?


i'm not very mafia-experienced but i'm under the impression that a) seshas' Homeland plays faster games of mafia than we do haha and b) it at least speeds up process of elimination. i understand not feeling similarly but i think it's not a very sus mindset, at least from where i stand right now


----------



## mewtini

Eifie said:


> idk about kyeugh but I kind of wondered if the "I can't unsee it" might be a disproportionate reaction to what is a kind of meh and not necessarily scum-indicative thing. I'm too lazy to look into it tbh. peasants, do the work for me.


despite what i said above, i do feel a little odd about it and am uncomfortable with the vote placement, but i also was kind of weirded out that kyeugh says this after having placed a vote against seshas with maybe less (transparent?) rationale*

* i know this was later explained as a pressurizing vote, but it wasn't initially billed as such


----------



## mewtini

mewtini said:


> kyeugh says this


ok so i'm illiterate today


rari_teh said:


> What is suspicious is your sudden high reaction to a misinterpreted joke of that caliber.


idk if i read this sinisterly tbqh. maybe i'm just sympathetic because


mewtini said:


> maybe i'm just being too nice to everyone lol idk :(


----------



## mewtini

god i'm so sorry that i'm now quadposting, but my paragraph from my last post didn't go through fsr. second bit was meant to say

idk if i read it that sinisterly tbqh. maybe i'm just sympathetic because i have a complex about not being active/having enough insight to keep up in mafia, which it sounded like otter maybe also shared, so i can kind of believe that she just lurked until she eventually decided not to. and i didn't feel it was a huge "high reaction" so much as an attempt to defuse what she maybe saw as a tense moment. but.... maybe i'm just being too nice


----------



## Herbe

(hi everyone, I am present and reading, I'll probably offer my thoughts in a bit, today's the fishing tourney in animal crossing though so that's got my attention for the next hour and a half)


----------



## mewtini

mewtini said:


> despite what i said above, i do feel a little odd about it and am uncomfortable with the vote placement, but i also was kind of weirded out that kyeugh says this after having placed a vote against seshas with maybe less (transparent?) rationale*
> 
> * i know this was later explained as a pressurizing vote, but it wasn't initially billed as such


LASt thing i swear. i didn't mean for this to be a shade-throw, but i am personally confused on whether or not at this stage we're all seeing a vote as a *serious!!! *action or if it's more of a pressurizing move. 'weirded out' was a bad turn of phrase, it's just that kyeugh specifically saw voting earlier as a gentle? action but is actually reading rari_teh's vote more seriously than i thought it was meant. but perhaps i'm just not really understanding which way she leans on its direness


----------



## kyeugh

mewtini said:


> despite what i said above, i do feel a little odd about it and am uncomfortable with the vote placement, but i also was kind of weirded out that kyeugh says this after having placed a vote against seshas with maybe less (transparent?) rationale*
> 
> * i know this was later explained as a pressurizing vote, but it wasn't initially billed as such


what other kind of vote would it be? there is no hammer and the day doesn’t end no matter what until the 13th, so it seems weird to me that anyone would assume i was trying to actually get lynched with my singular low evidence vote

anyway i don’t like rari’s vote tbh because their vote on me pinged me as kind of weird/sudden, but i try not to base my reads on the way people read me, so i kind of tucked it away. but that combined with how they seemed confused at the notion of a pressure vote and their imo overblown reaction to the analysis on rebecca gives me kinda opportunistic vibes

not strong ones mind you but i still don’t like it


----------



## kyeugh

mewtini said:


> LASt thing i swear. i didn't mean for this to be a shade-throw, but i am personally confused on whether or not at this stage we're all seeing a vote as a *serious!!! *action or if it's more of a pressurizing move. 'weirded out' was a bad turn of phrase, it's just that kyeugh specifically saw voting earlier as a gentle? action but is actually reading rari_teh's vote more seriously than i thought it was meant. but perhaps i'm just not really understanding which way she leans on its direness


 this is fair but my reaction is guided by the fact that rari themselves didn’t seem to see voting as gentle and has still been doing it anyway


----------



## mewtini

kyeugh said:


> this is fair but my reaction is guided by the fact that rari themselves didn’t seem to see voting as gentle and has still been doing it anyway


thanks for clarifying! in that case i agree a bit more. i think i'd chalked it up to them later understanding your intent in voting and just learning new tricks so to speak. also that at that juncture we were still waiting for more explanation out of otter, which seemed consistent with rari just testing out the pressure tactic. 

idk how to read them since i feel like they've kind of been reactionary about everything, not just this new thing, and while i'm still leaning incredibly neutral/positive on almost everyone i understand too that the otter lead briefly seemed really significant


----------



## rari_teh

mewtini said:


> fwiw i can't find it now but rari_teh has responded in similar ways to any mildly interesting or against-the-grain read


Yeah, I do recognize that does summarize me quite well :v



mewtini said:


> i didn't feel it was a huge "high reaction" so much as an attempt to defuse what she maybe saw as a tense moment. but.... maybe i'm just being too nice


Reading those posts again, I think I can see what you mean – Otter would be more like “that’s absurd, if you’re not lying than prove it!” than unnerved about the possibility of VM telling the truth. Still, maybe I’m being mean, but I still think that Seshas’s read makes more sense.



mewtini said:


> LASt thing i swear. i didn't mean for this to be a shade-throw, but i am personally confused on whether or not at this stage we're all seeing a vote as a *serious!!! *action or if it's more of a pressurizing move. 'weirded out' was a bad turn of phrase, it's just that kyeugh specifically saw voting earlier as a gentle? action but is actually reading rari_teh's vote more seriously than i thought it was meant. but perhaps i'm just not really understanding which way she leans on its direness


My 2¢: there’s still more than a full Earth day before d1 ends. Given the activity of this thread, there’s a lot of room for people to change their minds about their vote, me included. So, right now, votes aren’t _that _big of a deal.


----------



## rari_teh

kyeugh said:


> anyway i don’t like rari’s vote tbh because their vote on me pinged me as kind of weird/sudden


If this is any indicative of my stance on votes at this time of d1, I don’t even remember voting on qva at a point last night


----------



## mewtini

rari_teh said:


> So, right now, votes aren’t _that _big of a deal.


thanks for saying this. sorry if i seemed like i was kicking up a lot of dust, i agree but didn't know if that was also how everyone else was seeing things. reading back is sorta reinforcing that i think otter was acting fairly normal, if a bit nervous to enter """late""", and while i appreciated seshas' read i think it depended a lot more on intentionality that idk if i believe otter had. if otter had been really active i probably would have taken seshas at face value, tbh, but i'm really unsure whether or not she genuinely was just a lurker at heart for a while

on reread, eifie's remark about how otter seemed oddly informed made me wonder for a moment, but as of right now i don't think i'm disbelieving otter just yet. waiting it out i suppose



rari_teh said:


> If this is any indicative of my stance on votes at this time of d1, I don’t even remember voting on qva at a point last night


i don't recall this either but i don't feel like reading back atm


----------



## Eifie

mewtini said:


> fwiw i can't find it now but rari_teh has responded in similar ways to any mildly interesting or against-the-grain read


Yeah, that's why I've kind of started wondering if, hm, should I care more about that? idk.

I think kyeugh has sort of said a few things I was thinking so yeah maybe @rari_teh could tell us a bit more about how their opinion on votes has changed over the course of the day and why?


----------



## Eifie

oh wait I didn't notice qva said "vote on me". I thought she meant the vote on ottercopter.


----------



## kyeugh

Eifie said:


> oh wait I didn't notice qva said "vote on me". I thought she meant the vote on ottercopter.


i did, but the vote on ottercopter felt weirder to me than it would have if they didnt vote me (imo) hastily before too


----------



## M&F

god man, I try to catch up to this thread and something stupid comes up everytime I'm about to. hopefully now that I started typing a post, nothing else will interrupt me

(protip: something interrupted me immediately after I typed that)



rari_teh said:


> I spy with my little eye a user who was last seen in a private conversation according to The Forum Gods™. I wonder if that’s an indication of being mafia. Probably not, because I wasn’t suspecting of them, but still.


so like, besides what other people have said about this one, what do you mean there are people who don't tab out whenever they open a mafia PM??? I picked up the habit from being a frequent GM and now I catch myself doing it for regular correspondence all the time



mewtini said:


> on that note i still don't really suspect anyone except for that cheeky mf *[/hide]*


this is because I keep saying mean things to Eifie isn't it-



Butterfree said:


> [image]


hold onto that feeling! and then, when it's MFia, you'll know how I feel!



Ottercopter said:


> Offtopic example, but I've been part of tCoD for well over a decade by now and I can recite a lot of things I remember, but I doubt anyone would be able to say much they remember about me. Hell, i was shocked when I first heard that Eifie remembered me from playing Mafia. I'll try and post more if that clears suspicion, but mostly reading and not actually contributing isn't new for me.


what! I remember you from playing mafia also, and I don't normally remember things!



rari_teh said:


> I mean, if M&F (who posted quite a bit and isn’t particularly suspicious by my standards) had the same reaction you had, I (and Seshas, I suppose) would be voting for them.


are you questioning my sarcasm detection senses, child

anyways! as ignobile as it'd be to get out of these going-on-40 pages of discussion on what's not a specialized mafia forum nothing other than inactive lynch, that's D1 for ya; I'm sure a great deal of the kick back and forth here is going to come up useful later, but in the present moment, firm scumreads are going to be a thing of rarity.

I do think rari_teh and kyeugh are both playing pretty aggressively; I feel like this is in-charcacter for inno kyeugh, and don't know what it means for rari_teh. it doesn't necessarily mean scum, I know that I myself have been known for that streak (in fact, remember when I ended up stupidly getting people on board with lynching an activated alien)

speaking of which, though, I did also get the feeling that Keldeo is gently _off_ in this game. like, he's doing his usual thing, but I sensed a lack of going all the way in it; maybe it's his self-admitted low engagement with this game in particular, but then, mafiosi do sometimes claim that in order to get away with playing hands-off, so... cooooould go either way.

but we all know that the realest kind of scum here is *Eifey* and-


----------



## Eifie

rari_teh said:


> I must say, before that post I didn’t think anything of qva. Now I can’t help but suspect her of being mafia.
> 
> 
> No, it’s perfectly fine! It’s me who should, as they say, _lurk moar_.


@kyeugh: oh yeah, you mean this?


----------



## Eifie

Nyahaha! Your votes will only make me stronger!


----------



## mewtini

M&F said:


> this is because I keep saying mean things to Eifie isn't it-


it's like MC Ride, but it's MF [/hide]


----------



## rari_teh

kyeugh said:


> i did, but the vote on ottercopter felt weirder to me than it would have if they didnt vote me (imo) hastily before too


Ok, I’m looking though all of my posts for my reply to Eifie’s question and I can’t find the post where I voted on you. Maybe I’m being blind, but are you really sure I did?


----------



## mewtini

rari_teh said:


> Ok, I’m looking though all of my posts for my reply to Eifie’s question and I can’t find the post where I voted on you. Maybe I’m being blind, but are you really sure I did?


i'm pretty sure you didn't, i also went back and i think kyeugh is just misremembering the brief "is she mafia" suspicion


----------



## Eifie

M&F said:


> anyways! as ignobile as it'd be to get out of these going-on-40 pages of discussion on what's not a specialized mafia forum nothing other than inactive lynch, that's D1 for ya; I'm sure a great deal of the kick back and forth here is going to come up useful later, but in the present moment, firm scumreads are going to be a thing of rarity.


this is probably accurate


----------



## kyeugh

Eifie said:


> @kyeugh: oh yeah, you mean this?


 oh yeah idk why i thought this was a vote fsr

but it is the same energy of “now that you have said a somewhat negative thing about xyz i am scumreading them”


----------



## Eifie

hmm, luckily I am totally masons with Keldeo so I don't actually have to consider this, but my impression from having seen Keldeo be mafia twice recently(ish) is that as mafia he likes to be seen doing work and having Very Deep Thoughts that are meant to look very towny in a sense of "I am totally a town who is totally probing extremely deeply into this thing because I am totally a town who cares", so if I wasn't masons with Keldeo this would actually make me lean more towards him being town, hehe.


----------



## Eifie

kyeugh said:


> oh yeah idk why i thought this was a vote fsr
> 
> but it is the same energy of “now that you have said a somewhat negative thing about xyz i am scumreading them”


Yeah, I gotcha. Not sure right now if it's more "town excited to find a lead" or "scum excited to find an opportunity to shade".

I hope I will be able to take firmer stances on people when we have more flips. >_>


----------



## mewtini

kyeugh said:


> but it is the same energy of “now that you have said a somewhat negative thing about xyz i am scumreading them”


agree it's the same energy, but still want to reiterate that idk if it means almost anything coming out of rari so far. i still think they've acted really consistently, i just can't tell if it's due to being happy!town or opportunistic!scum. i also kind of believe that they just came around on gentle voting after you explained yourself earlier, so i still don't feel that weird about their otter vote? idk


----------



## mewtini

mewtini said:


> i also kind of believe that they just came around on gentle voting


in particular, iirc rari is new to mafia, so it seemed plausible to me reading through that they were just picking new things up as they went. sorry. i should probably take more time to consolidate my posts haha but i keep getting anxious about getting sniped and my posts becoming obsolete as i type them


----------



## Eifie

Eifie said:


> hmm, luckily I am totally masons with Keldeo so I don't actually have to consider this, but my impression from having seen Keldeo be mafia twice recently(ish) is that as mafia he likes to be seen doing work and having Very Deep Thoughts that are meant to look very towny in a sense of "I am totally a town who is totally probing extremely deeply into this thing because I am totally a town who cares", so if I wasn't masons with Keldeo this would actually make me lean more towards him being town, hehe.


Here's one example of this, along with an absolutely hilarious reaction: https://www.mafiauniverse.com/forum...-The-Mafia-Championship?p=3522881#post3522881 (spoilers: he did not keep his word)

It's kind of hard to provide other examples because they tend to not make much sense without context, but it's a consistent pattern that I've noticed


----------



## Novae

Seshas said:


> being too nice >> being toxic


at a certain point is there really a difference 


Eifie said:


> hard claim death miller that wins with the mafia btw


:wowee:


----------



## mewtini

Mist1422 said:


> at a certain point is there really a difference


:((((((((((((((((


----------



## Novae

mewtini said:


> :((((((((((((((((


look I’ve played with a certain person (seshas knows who) enough times to get annoyed at “omg guys why aren’t you being nice to everyone” attitudes


----------



## Novae

anyway back to catching up
on a side note because delay oneshot is a fantastic game


----------



## Keldeo

Relevant to some people's read on me: the low engagement is a function of me not having enough time to sit down with the thread and really drill in, which is true regardless of my alignment. I'll kick it up a notch soon(tm)

Oh, Eifie, I definitely don't think kokorico's read on me was opportunistic because e asked the question about whether we were actually masons (indicating that e was trying to get a read on me, imo) way before Rari expressed their suspicion on me. I don't know if having the read itself makes em towny per se, but maybe that buttresses your thoughts?

Tell me more about why mewtini is pocketing you? I think I'm maybe townreading her too but it's, like, literally all tone and she seems participatory and trying to figure stuff out. 

@rari_teh and @kokorico both said that my later posting had them feeling better about me so I'm interested to hear what they mean by that / what made them think so, because my own perception is that I got less engaged later on.


----------



## kyeugh

mewtini said:


> agree it's the same energy, but still want to reiterate that idk if it means almost anything coming out of rari so far. i still think they've acted really consistently, i just can't tell if it's due to being happy!town or opportunistic!scum. i also kind of believe that they just came around on gentle voting after you explained yourself earlier, so i still don't feel that weird about their otter vote? idk


i mean that’s valid! i’m not saying it’s necessarily a scum thing but i don’t like the pattern being established and if something makes me feel weird i try not to be charitable with assuming their motivations if i don’t know them


----------



## Novae

Eifie said:


> hmm, luckily I am totally masons with Keldeo so I don't actually have to consider this, but my impression from having seen Keldeo be mafia twice recently(ish) is that as mafia he likes to be seen doing work and having Very Deep Thoughts that are meant to look very towny in a sense of "I am totally a town who is totally probing extremely deeply into this thing because I am totally a town who cares", so if I wasn't masons with Keldeo this would actually make me lean more towards him being town, hehe.


this is a good way to put it

I sort of saw it in his second(?) post but haven’t really been seeing it since


----------



## Eifie

Keldeo said:


> Oh, Eifie, I definitely don't think kokorico's read on me was opportunistic because e asked the question about whether we were actually masons (indicating that e was trying to get a read on me, imo) way before Rari expressed their suspicion on me. I don't know if having the read itself makes em towny per se, but maybe that buttresses your thoughts?


Oh, I agree, I remembered that too.



Keldeo said:


> Tell me more about why mewtini is pocketing you? I think I'm maybe townreading her too but it's, like, literally all tone and she seems participatory and trying to figure stuff out.


I mean I don't actually know if it's intentional but she basically expresses agreement with all my posts and likes 99% of my stuff which is basically the way to my heart because I live for The Adoration of the Masses. I feel way too biased to do anything but townread her at this point. :p


----------



## rari_teh

Eifie said:


> I think kyeugh has sort of said a few things I was thinking so yeah maybe @rari_teh could tell us a bit more about how their opinion on votes has changed over the course of the day and why?


It hasn’t changed much really. What I could say that changed is that before qva’s move on Seshas, I didn’t consider the possibility of a strategy that included temporarily voting on someone you weren’t almost sure to be aligned to the side you oppose (still, I wouldn’t be comfortable in using such a strategy).

Better explaining, I use my votes as a way of signaling “that’s a person I find highly likely to be scum. Let’s discuss so that either I change my mind before the deadline or more people vote on that person.” That’s why I said to Keldeo about Eifie voting on Odie_Pie:



rari_teh said:


> I supported abstaining first because I think it may not be wise to kill off somebody who has a higher chance to be town than mafia – we know absolutely nothing about her and there are more townsfolk than mafiosi. But then again, if she doesn’t show up on d1 at all and nobody knows her outside of the site, might as well kill the inactive.


Which brings us to another question…



kyeugh said:


> but it is the same energy of “now that you have said a somewhat negative thing about xyz i am scumreading them”


I can see how one could read me like that, but that wasn’t it. Like I said, I didn’t consider the possibility of a strategy that included temporarily voting on someone you weren’t almost sure to be aligned to the side you oppose. Meaning that, in yesterday’s rari’s head, _qva votes on town = qva scum_. Still I didn’t think that was enough to vote on you.



kyeugh said:


> oh yeah idk why i thought this was a vote fsr


Maybe you view votes more lightly than I do?

(I hope I don’t screw up formatting this time)


----------



## kyeugh

hard read keldeo and eif are scum and them talking about mason chat is actually a huge power move


----------



## kyeugh

rari i was feeling better about you bc of what mewt has said in your defense but that post kind of makes me feel worse again


----------



## mewtini

kyeugh said:


> rari i was feeling better about you bc of what mewt has said in your defense but that post kind of makes me feel worse again


can you explain this more?


----------



## mewtini

Eifie said:


> which is basically the way to my heart because I live for The Adoration of the Masses.


bruh i thought we had a bond. this is literally like finding out you're only liked because you're rich


----------



## mewtini

mewtini said:


> bruh i thought we had a bond. this is literally like finding out you're only liked because you're rich


----------



## Zori

Rari is probably town since scum, especially newb scum, is less likely to throw their full weight into a wagon so early in its formation I think


----------



## kyeugh

mewtini said:


> can you explain this more?


you saying that their vote was just them learning/adopting the pressure vote from my move on seshas made me feel better about it but in that last post they say outright:





rari_teh said:


> Better explaining, I use my votes as a way of signaling “that’s a person I find highly likely to be scum. Let’s discuss so that either I change my mind before the deadline or more people vote on that person.”


and that is in the present tense


----------



## M&F

Eifie said:


> Here's one example of this, along with an absolutely hilarious reaction: https://www.mafiauniverse.com/forum...-The-Mafia-Championship?p=3522881#post3522881 (spoilers: he did not keep his word)


gasp! keldeo drove a man to suicide! evil! mafia!

also like, noted, but Keldeo _is_ maintaining the appearance of engagement, it just still managed to strike me as less voluntary than usual! at any rate, there's both a town and a mafia way to read such a thing, so it's not a hard read by any means; it may or may not help to orient us on why several people are mildly FoSing him though

but at any rate, man, reading people is going to be real challenging in this game, even besides the newcomers. like, we sure as hell aren't getting much out of comparing mewtini or herbe to their own past performances


----------



## M&F

M&F said:


> but at any rate, man, reading people is going to be real challenging in this game, even besides the newcomers. like, we sure as hell aren't getting much out of comparing mewtini or herbe to their own past performances


and for clarity, this is less of a directed burn than some of the more visible examples of how some of us just aren't going to show up with the same playstyle we used to have Back In The Day

this goes even for old bags like say Negrek- whoops that also reads very much like a directed burn doesn't it


----------



## mewtini

M&F said:


> but at any rate, man, reading people is going to be real challenging in this game, even besides the newcomers. like, we sure as hell aren't getting much out of comparing mewtini or herbe to their own past performances


;( i'm sorry for being a baby the last time i played mafia.



rari_teh said:


> It hasn’t changed much really. What I could say that changed is that before qva’s move on Seshas, I didn’t consider the possibility of a strategy that included temporarily voting on someone you weren’t almost sure to be aligned to the side you oppose (still, I wouldn’t be comfortable in using such a strategy).
> 
> Better explaining, I use my votes as a way of signaling “that’s a person I find highly likely to be scum. Let’s discuss so that either I change my mind before the deadline or more people vote on that person.”





kyeugh said:


> and that is in the present tense


gotcha. tbh i haven't really intended to bodyshield rari in the way that i think i keep accidentally doing but i guess what they said there still seems like they're just bandwagoning, albeit a bit naively imo, and it doesn't read like a big contradiction to me? saying "i think that person is a suspect" seems more or less like "i think that person should be pressured/interrogated" to me and i can understand there maybe being a lack of nuance especially if it is an innocent bandwagon effect

maybe i'm just being obtuse, i'm sorry


----------



## mewtini

if that's still me missing your point then i'm v open to hearing. i'm pretty sure i just didn't see whatever you saw


----------



## Eifie

@Keldeo may need to step aside because I feel like mewtini and I are basically the same person


----------



## mewtini

Eifie said:


> @Keldeo may need to step aside because I feel like mewtini and I are basically the same person


no girl. i'm still #hurt from before


----------



## kyeugh

i think there’s a big difference between “i think this person is LIKELY to be scum and need to be convinced otherwise” and “i want this person to talk more” and it seems rari thinks so too


----------



## kyeugh

Eifie said:


> @Keldeo may need to step aside because I feel like mewtini and I are basically the same person


but I’M the same person as mewtini! are we... a godhead!?


----------



## mewtini

kyeugh said:


> but I’M the same person as mewtini! are we... a godhead!?


godhead? ... turntechGodhead?


----------



## mewtini

someone lmk how to angry react my own post. anyway



kyeugh said:


> i think there’s a big difference between “i think this person is LIKELY to be scum and need to be convinced otherwise” and “i want this person to talk more” and it seems rari thinks so too


ok ... this is fair. i think maybe i'm just not totally understanding why you think they have that mindset because i thought they were conflating the two, tbh


----------



## M&F

Eifie said:


> Keldeo may need to step aside because I feel like mewtini and I are basically the same person


that's impossible! I'm fond of mewtini!-


----------



## mewtini

M&F said:


> I'm fond of mewtini!-


omg i'm fond of m-


----------



## kyeugh

mewtini said:


> ok ... this is fair. i think maybe i'm just not totally understanding why you think they have that mindset because i thought they were conflating the two, tbh


i don’t think they were at all. they definitely see the distinction, they just don’t think wanting someone to talk more is worth a vote. that’s why they assumed i was gung ho about seshas based on my vote, and they also specified earlier that they were suspicious of me and wanted me to talk but didn’t think i was LIKELY to be scum which is why they didn’t vote. given they vote for one of these feelings and not the other i’d say they’re distinguishing them more than i do


----------



## kyeugh

mewtini said:


> omg i'm fond of m-


god the preview image on this is my favorite part of opm


----------



## mewtini

kyeugh said:


> i don’t think they were at all. they definitely see the distinction, they just don’t think wanting someone to talk more is worth a vote. that’s why they assumed i was gung ho about seshas based on my vote, and they also specified earlier that they were suspicious of me and wanted me to talk but didn’t think i was LIKELY to be scum which is why they didn’t vote. given they vote for one of these feelings and not the other i’d say they’re distinguishing them more than i do


ok! i think i understand a bit more now. in that case, i'm wondering - and sorry if you've already said so - are you primarily just concerned that they were 'convinced' (quotes optional) after a single read? or is it that they haven't relented? or ... ? 

(idk if this was clear, but the reason i'm kind of unconcerned/apathetic is that i didn't see gullibility or whatever as something to be worried about, though that could change depending on how this continues to pan out)


----------



## mewtini

continuing to say that, even if i can definitely construe it as an opportunistic take, i don't even know how dangerous it is considering that they kind of backed off of it. they haven't unvoted afaik, but they also haven't put a lot of effort into leading others to the same conclusion; they've chiefly just been a follower in this game (sorry to beat a dead horse). even though in that one long post they mentioned vote placement being a way to get others to vote for someone, i don't know if i believe yet that that's their end game, since they've seemed very content to have their vote just exist in the ether for the time being


----------



## mewtini

basically i think that
a) it's just someone new at mafia just being someone new at mafia, easily convinced, and doesn't really internalize that unvoting is a mechanic (granted this is part of your issue, which i understand)
OR
b) it could be mafia trying to stir up trouble, but they're not doing a particularly good job of it, seeing as they've actually played things pretty calmly in this particular case and things still feel fairly smooth to me


----------



## rari_teh

kyeugh said:


> you saying that their vote was just them learning/adopting the pressure vote from my move on seshas made me feel better about it but in that last post they say outright:
> 
> 
> 
> rari_teh]
> Better explaining said:
> 
> 
> 
> i think there’s a big difference between “i think this person is LIKELY to be scum and need to be convinced otherwise” and “i want this person to talk more” and it seems rari thinks so too
> 
> 
> 
> No, I don’t think so, actually. For me to be convinced otherwise, I also need to hear some explaining from the person I’m voting on. I’m at the same time pressuring the voted and provoking discussion.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> mewtini said:
> 
> 
> 
> i guess what they said there still seems like they're just bandwagoning, albeit a bit naively imo, and it doesn't read like a big contradiction to me? saying "i think that person is a suspect" seems more or less like "i think that person should be pressured/interrogated" to me and i can understand there maybe being a lack of nuance especially if it is an innocent bandwagon effect
> 
> 
> maybe i'm just being obtuse, i'm sorry
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I guess you could call me being almost 100% convinced by Seshas as _naïvely bandwagoning_; I shan’t comment on that because of the Dunning-Kruger Effect.
> 
> I just don’t quite understand why qva is scumreading me over my early, and susceptible to change, vote on Otter, though.
> 
> 
> 
> Mist1422 said:
> 
> 
> 
> on a side note because delay oneshot is a fantastic game
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> YES! I still haven’t completed the Solstice, though :(
Click to expand...


----------



## kyeugh

mewtini said:


> ok! i think i understand a bit more now. in that case, i'm wondering - and sorry if you've already said so - are you primarily just concerned that they were 'convinced' (quotes optional) after a single read? or is it that they haven't relented? or ... ?
> 
> (idk if this was clear, but the reason i'm kind of unconcerned/apathetic is that i didn't see gullibility or whatever as something to be worried about, though that could change depending on how this continues to pan out)


  yeah, basically. i don’t like that they are swayed enough my imo only very slightly compelling posts to place votes that by their own admission represent serious suspicion. in the best case, it’s gullible town (which means easily swayed by scum); in the worst it’s bad faith.


----------



## kyeugh

rari_teh said:


> I just don’t quite understand why qva is scumreading me over my early, and susceptible to change, vote on Otter, though.


 i’m not really SCUMreading you, else i’d be voting. but it isn’t just this vote; you were also too easily swayed about me, i think, although you didn’t place a vote there. it’s the pattern.


----------



## rari_teh

Leave it to me to screw up formatting… :(



kyeugh said:


> i don’t think they were at all. they definitely see the distinction, they just don’t think wanting someone to talk more is worth a vote. that’s why they assumed i was gung ho about seshas based on my vote, and they also specified earlier that they were suspicious of me and wanted me to talk but didn’t think i was LIKELY to be scum which is why they didn’t vote. given they vote for one of these feelings and not the other i’d say they’re distinguishing them more than i do


I didn’t vote for you because I didn’t, and don’t, think that you are scum. Besides, I didn’t need to put pressure on you to talk more. Eifie was already doing that job way better than I ever could.



mewtini said:


> continuing to say that, even if i can definitely construe it as an opportunistic take, i don't even know how dangerous it is considering that they kind of backed off of it. they haven't unvoted afaik, but they also haven't put a lot of effort into leading others to the same conclusion; they've chiefly just been a follower in this game (sorry to beat a dead horse). even though in that one long post they mentioned vote placement being a way to get others to vote for someone, i don't know if i believe yet that that's their end game, since they've seemed very content to have their vote just exist in the ether for the time being


Exactly this.



mewtini said:


> basically i think that
> 
> a) it's just someone new at mafia just being someone new at mafia, easily convinced, and doesn't really internalize that unvoting is a mechanic (granted this is part of your issue, which i understand)
> 
> OR
> 
> b) it could be mafia trying to stir up trouble, but they're not doing a particularly good job of it, seeing as they've actually played things pretty calmly in this particular case and things still feel fairly smooth to me


Alright, _fine,_, if it will make y’all happy I’ll *unvote* for now. But I’ll be clear: if by tomorrow night I still ain’t convinced that Otter is town, I’ll vote them.


----------



## mewtini

rari_teh said:


> No, I don’t think so, actually. For me to be convinced otherwise, I also need to hear some explaining from the person I’m voting on. I’m at the same time pressuring the voted and provoking discussion.


if you don't conflate the two things - is the reason you didn't vote for kyeugh, then, because she was more active than otter at the time and better able to semi-immediately give her justification for voting?



rari_teh said:


> I guess you could call me being almost 100% convinced by Seshas as _naïvely bandwagoning_


what convinced you about seshas' argument such that the other ideas (that otter was lurking, etc) fell away? did something about otter's replies thus far make you distrust her?



rari_teh said:


> I just don’t quite understand why qva is scumreading me over my early, and susceptible to change, vote on Otter, though.


not really sure of what to make of this, because part of me feels like it either *a) *reinforces that there's just a fundamental difference in how we're all interpreting The Seriousness of Voting and the percentage of distrust for someone required to vote, or *b) *is actually now an attempt to stir the pot and cast suspicion on kyeugh


----------



## mewtini

ok sorry some of my post just became irrelevant


----------



## Eifie

rari_teh said:


> I didn’t vote for you because I didn’t, and don’t, think that you are scum.


hmm, now I'm getting confused (well, I was already confused, but I'm still confused). how does this fit in with the post where you said you couldn't help but suspect her of being mafia?


----------



## Zori

tired because long DnD session but being swayed by the opinions of the people who seem to be leading town is pretty normal, especially if you're in consensus sitting on the null line or below


----------



## Eifie

I'm actually not sure I care that much about the answer to my question because what I'm thinking right now is... okay, maybe rari_teh is saying things right now that are confusing or contradictory. But being contradictory isn't an inherently scummy thing.

And my current take (which keeps flipping back and forth lol) is like... okay, say you rolled mafia and you're going to go into the game taking the line that you don't believe in lynching people without that much to go on, abstaining d1 seems like a good idea, etc. etc. Does it make sense that you would then start hopping on lynch trains when the opinion of the thread makes it seem like maybe you can get away with it, in order to get town mislynched? imo it doesn't really. I think the tack someone like that would want to take is to stay _off_ those wagons and then if they do get mislynched they can be all "see, I told you so" in order to try to raise themselves in people's esteem.


----------



## rari_teh

mewtini said:


> ok sorry some of my post just became irrelevant


It happens, LOL

I’ll leave out what was directly answered by the post I made while you typed, but if you still have questions left unanswered, do ask.



mewtini said:


> what convinced you about seshas' argument such that the other ideas (that otter was lurking, etc) fell away? did something about otter's replies thus far make you distrust her?


As Eifie previously said,


Eifie said:


> I'm wondering because it feels a bit like you [Ottercopter] know stuff that's happening in the thread in a way that doesn't match up with your actual thread presence and I'm trying to figure out how I should feel about it. Like that you did read VM's claim before and waved it off, and that you're aware that I suggested lynching someone who hasn't been online for a while, but at the same time you don't have any further thoughts.


It strikes me as very suspicious the fact that it was specifically a quasi-superhero “roleclaim” that Otter perceived as critical enough to be commented on. As she herself said upon a request for comment…



Ottercopter said:


> I still don't have any insights that someone else hasn't already said. I don't even really know how to defend myself besides just that I'm a natural lurker and I don't like to post unless I have something that could further the conversation.


Maybe I’m being too paranoid, but the red flags I see are too big to ignore as of now.




mewtini said:


> not really sure of what to make of this, because part of me feels like it either a) reinforces that there's just a fundamental difference in how we're all interpreting The Seriousness of Voting and the percentage of distrust for someone required to vote, or b) is actually now an attempt to stir the pot and cast suspicion on kyeugh


I’ll stress this so that no shadow of doubt is left: I _do not believe_ that Kyeugh is mafia. She’s just another townie who isn’t reading me right.


----------



## rari_teh

Eifie said:


> hmm, now I'm getting confused (well, I was already confused, but I'm still confused). how does this fit in with the post where you said you couldn't help but suspect her of being mafia?


Because it was inconsistent. Everything she did up to that point made me think she was likely town, so her vote left me in shock.


----------



## mewtini

rari_teh said:


> It strikes me as very suspicious the fact that it was specifically a quasi-superhero “roleclaim” that Otter perceived as critical enough to be commented on. As she herself said upon a request for comment…


what do you think of i liek squirtles as of right now?


----------



## rari_teh

mewtini said:


> what do you think of i liek squirtles as of right now?


He seems to get suspicious easily.

When I raised the possibility that Negrek could be mafia, he thought I was mafia trying to throw shade at her (although I didn’t even say I believed her to be mafia (I never did), only speculated about possible scenarios regarding VM’s powers in d2). When I explained myself, he agreed, on the grounds that Negrek’s role could easily be faked, and also mentioned that he was suspicious of VM because of his backtrack on his role’s powers (which was most likely a honest mistake). Then, finally, when he took VM’s outtake as true, he mused about what kind of OP shit must exist among the mafia.

I believe he’s town, though you can never be 100% sure.


----------



## kyeugh

i’d like to specify since i feel like it’s starting to feel like this is a thing that i’m pushing: i don’t care about this that much and did not want to talk about it this long, i just keep getting questioned about it

which is fine but i want to make it clear that this isn’t something i’m trying to drag out/convince you guys of. however i will say that every time rari posts i feel worse about it lol


----------



## rari_teh

Keldeo said:


> @rari_teh and @kokorico both said that my later posting had them feeling better about me so I'm interested to hear what they mean by that / what made them think so, because my own perception is that I got less engaged later on.


My perception of you shifted because your comments apparently became more helpful in a communitarian sense, if that makes sense. Before, you seemed to my eyes more like you were commenting as an outsider rather than a member.

Hooray for late reply


----------



## rari_teh

kyeugh said:


> i’d like to specify since i feel like it’s starting to feel like this is a thing that i’m pushing: i don’t care about this that much and did not want to talk about it this long, i just keep getting questioned about it
> 
> which is fine but i want to make it clear that this isn’t something i’m trying to drag out/convince you guys of. however i will say that every time rari posts i feel worse about it lol


If you could elaborate on what on my latest posts rubs you the wrong way, I’d really appreciate, though I do understand if you don’t want to drag this any further.


----------



## mewtini

rari_teh said:


> He seems to get suspicious easily.
> 
> When I raised the possibility that Negrek could be mafia, he thought I was mafia trying to throw shade at her (although I didn’t even say I believed her to be mafia (I never did), only speculated about possible scenarios regarding VM’s powers in d2). When I explained myself, he agreed, on the grounds that Negrek’s role could easily be faked, and also mentioned that he was suspicious of VM because of his backtrack on his role’s powers (which was most likely a honest mistake). *Then, finally, when he took VM’s outtake as true, he mused about what kind of OP shit must exist among the mafia.*
> 
> I believe he’s town, though you can never be 100% sure.


can i also ask why you're reading this as suspicion on ILS' part (bold in particular) rather than pure surprise? i kind of thought you were in agreement with seshas' back-to-back reads about ILS and otter


----------



## rari_teh

mewtini said:


> can i also ask why you're reading this as suspicion on ILS' part (bold in particular) rather than pure surprise? i kind of thought you were in agreement with seshas' back-to-back reads about ILS and otter


No, I do agree with Seshas’ take. Maybe I shouldn’t have lumped that one together with the others, but I see role-spec as a kind of suspicion. Speculating what could hit is close to speculating who to hit.

I’m bad at semantics, probably.


----------



## rari_teh

who **could* hit, not who to hit. Derp.


----------



## kyeugh

rari_teh said:


> If you could elaborate on what on my latest posts rubs you the wrong way, I’d really appreciate, though I do understand if you don’t want to drag this any further.


 its not really a specific thing, i just feel like in attempting to dissuade my suspicions you’re just doubling down on the things that made me uneasy initially


----------



## kyeugh

and i will reiterate that uneasy does not necessarily = scumreading here


----------



## rari_teh

kyeugh said:


> its not really a specific thing, i just feel like in attempting to dissuade my suspicions you’re just doubling down on the things that made me uneasy initially


That does make sense. Thanks.


----------



## Keldeo

We've now outposted Eifie's Memefest!

/villagery pop-out


----------



## kyeugh

Keldeo said:


> We've now outposted Eifie's Memefest!
> 
> /villagery pop-out


 the post:Sofistickaeted Play Scripte ratio of this thread is  frankly embarrassing compared to the memefest’s


----------



## RedneckPhoenix

no idea who the mafia is i'm just here for the ride tbh


----------



## Eifie

I can't believe there have been no posts the entire time I was in the shower. Has something happened? Does anyone need help?!


----------



## mewtini

Eifie said:


> I can't believe there have been no posts the entire time I was in the shower. Has something happened? Does anyone need help?!


ikr? i'm depressed about it


----------



## rari_teh

What a weird silence


----------



## M&F

hello, future person reading this, and my condolences for how insufferable it must be to go through 40 pages of stuff only to get to the part where everyone seems to be mawing about there not being enough posts-


----------



## mewtini

M&F said:


> hello, future person reading this, and my condolences for how insufferable it must be to go through 40 pages of stuff only to get to the part where everyone seems to be mawing about there not being enough posts-


hey. HEY. suffering is relative, ok!?


----------



## Vipera Magnifica

Mawile said:


> I'm confused by how we know if VM is joking or not? Is it because his role seems overpowered in addition to having the universal backup, or did I miss something else?


Joking? You think I'm _joking_? My claim was 100% serious, and you know what? Having just consulted my role PM again... I see now that I also get the irl bank account details of all players in the mafia, starting on N1! Can't believe I missed that...


----------



## mewtini

Vipera Magnifica said:


> Joking? You think I'm _joking_? My claim was 100% serious, and you know what? Having just consulted my role PM again... I see now that I also get the irl bank account details of all players in the mafia, starting on N1! Can't believe I missed that...





			
				VM three hours from now said:
			
		

> Alright, so upon re-reading my role, it says that I actually get the irl bank account details of all the members of the mafia as the_ second _night phase begins. Guess that means any speculation about my awesome, sexy powers was a colossal waste of time. Whoops.


----------



## kyeugh

oh, i don’t think so. i’m not falling for the old “give a tcod person my bank information” trick again.


----------



## Eifie

smh Keldeo I've been waiting hours for you to post and you're just haha reacting to everything smh


----------



## Keldeo

I'll make a big post in like... an hour, I don't want to spam the thread with my responses while catching up.

Can you refresh me on your Herbe probably town read? I felt like he was more engaged in the early game, which is fine but my vague good feels on him are waning a little. I do like the continuity in his read on Seshas when he pointed it out to kyeugh.


----------



## Keldeo

Catchup part 1:

The way IndigoEmmy went about claiming is still super pure, even not considering the fact that Mysterious Informants from the last game were town (afaik?)



Mr. Ultracool said:


> Do you suggest that we should claim? I'd probably be capable of pulling that off without harming town too much, too...


Mm, kinda like the concern for town in this Ultracool post, although this is a quite thin read. Would still like to hear more from him.



Herbe said:


> I'm with Eifie on this actually
> *Odie_Pie *


Herbe, can you tell me more about this vote, you also brought inactives up a little earlier iirc? Also any thoughts on recent events, opting to play Animal Crossing instead of mafia is extremely understandable, haha.



rari_teh said:


> Well… I didn’t want to say anything because my suspicion might not have passed through the mafiosi’s heads, and if it’s true and they find out, the player in question would be boned… Though now I have a better explanation for that, so I might as well say everything.





rari_teh said:


> [quote of mawile post saying that he's suspicious of Seshas because their info seemed more limited than Indigo's]
> Maybe IndigoEmmy was more eager to share what she knows, maybe Seshas’s informant powers are more limited, if that makes any kind of sense. For all we know, Emmy could be playing 4D chess and claiming to be a Mysterious Informant using recycled information from the last game to be seen as an obvious townie (to be clear: this is just me stating a remote yet concrete possibility. I almost fully believe that Emmy is indeed a MI vanilla townie).


These are fairly pure thoughts from Rari, I think - the second post in particular has this nice combination of like, out-there speculation plus diffusing Mawile's suspicion on Seshas, which they could've allowed to continue. (I thought Mawile's explanation of their suspicion there was fine.) I haven't gotten to the voting reasoning discussion yet, didn't really understand that in real time.


Negrek's treatment of the Seshas situation is pretty reasonable, which isn't like blindingly towny but I like it. I also still like her claim, though less so than VM. re: this from kokorico, which I missed initially - 


Spoiler






kokorico said:


> I think M&F has it right when they said Negrek's claim was way more plausible than VM's. Negrek is now basically locked into telling us the tropes of everyone who dies, because not doing so would seem suspicious. If he were lying, then all it would take is a single rolecop somewhere in the town to guarantee he would slip up eventually. So it would be either an exceptionally stupid thing to do, or a magnificent bluff.





I wasn't saying she was lying about her role - I was thinking it wouldn't be that far-fetched for her role, in a vacuum, to be real but also be on mafia. But in context, I feel like mafia Negrek might also want to keep her role and her role's info to herself / promote confusion by letting people continue to think something weird happened with Jack's life status.  

Weirdish feels about kyeugh's push on Seshas, specifically a bit confused about how she connects the ideas of "Seshas is not more likely to be MI than an 'infiltrator' role", "I want Seshas to explain themself more", and "I think Seshas has been hiding some of their information." Maybe it'll click more for me as I keep reading.


----------



## Keldeo

Actually, nvm, how kyeugh explained that does make sense to me, if you connect the first/third points and second/third points separately. I guess she was just being a bit indirect about wanting Seshas to explain their info?


----------



## Herbe

Hello! I am here! Sorry I said I'd be more active earlier tonight but things in meatspace happened and I haven't had a laptop in my hands till now (and dear God I refuse to do mafia posts on my phone. my eyes and fingers don't work that way.)

I agree that I was more engaged in the early game I think,,, I think it's because I feel a lot more comfortable arguing/discussing mech things than reads. To put it on the table, I feel kinda timid about going hard after people based on reads and feelings d1, since I'm inexperienced and I know somehow I'm gonna fuck it up of course. Also.... there were significantly less moving parts earlier in the game...

I actually relate to mewtini a lot in this game, although I know I should probably be posting As Much as her for that to hold weight! also: I should really start taking notes! All these damn names floating around. Once I get some notes typed up (which... will probably be on things moving forward, and not necessarily retroactively unless I find time for that) then I'll post them if they make any sense/would be helpful, and aren't too unintelligible. 

Uhhhhh, my Thoughts: (it's been a couple hours since I caught myself up, so apologies if I've said things already hashed)
Was otter's post kinda cagey? Yes. And I think seshas's take on it is entirely plausible. I don't necessarily want to lynch on "cagey" d1, though. rari went kinda ham on it and while that does make me uncomfortable, my gut doesn't say it's malicious. I don't think aggressive play necessarily equals scum. Otter's cageyness is useful information going forward, but (and maybe this is my non-confrontational coming out) I don't want to jump her ass immediately.

On my vote on odie_pie, well, worst case is we lynch an inactive town, who isn't helping us anyway other than having +1 in our numbers (they're not using their possibly good role by using night actions/discussing and helping town or offering their thoughts.) Which is obviously not ideal!! But I'm okay with that worst case, since mislynching is always a probability, yeah? Best case: assuming there are like, what, 5 or 6 mafia (iirc what someone said about the usual ratios earlier in the thread) then we take out 1/5 or 1/6 of the mafia. Even an inactive mafia is an essential boost to their numbers, so it's more important to them than it is to us. If taking out inactive players is more of a bad thing for town than I think, pleaseeeee let me know, this is just my best guess of the situation. Let Me Be Better At This Game Please

Seshas said something in the last... 800 posts... about it being important to lynch d1 even purely for process of elimination, or someone said something about abstaining after 800 pages of discussion being quite dissappointing, and yeah... I really respect seshas's play style right now, even if it is culturally more "aggressive" than I'm used to. Call me pocketed but I trust them. (am I using that word correctly?)

My strongest townreads right now are seshas and mewtini fwiw. Keldeo, I have like... 80% good vibes from you (I'm a sucker for long, well thought out contributions) but I know how damn good you are at mafia so obv I'm worried about you pulling the wool over my eyes hypothetically, if you were scum. But like I said, 80% good vibes. We're cool. 

If you have anything else you want to ask me/want to know from me let me know!! :> im trying to be a little helperman


----------



## Herbe

Oh! Also I wanted to give fair warning that my "spring break" is about to end monday and I'm going back to having online school from monday to like. the 24th ish. So I might decrease just the slightest in activity. Or maybe I'll increase because I'll use this to procrastinate!!! Who knows!!!!


----------



## mewtini

Herbe said:


> To put it on the table, I feel kinda timid about going hard after people based on reads and feelings d1, since I'm inexperienced and I know somehow I'm gonna fuck it up of course. Also.... there were significantly less moving parts earlier in the game...
> 
> I actually relate to mewtini a lot in this game, although I know I should probably be posting As Much as her for that to hold weight! also: I should really start taking notes! All these damn names floating around.


the first sentence is how i felt as this whole thing started ha!! this is still my first True Game :x and i have inactive-flagging anxiety so i'm just talking too damn much. more relatedly, i'm probably going to be going back and taking notes/maybe ?!?!bigposting!?!? in the next little while, who knows, the night (2) is (:03) young (am).

doing the classic Things I Agree With, Things I Don't deal:


Keldeo said:


> But in context, I feel like mafia Negrek might also want to keep her role and her role's info to herself / promote confusion by letting people continue to think something weird happened with Jack's life status.





Herbe said:


> If taking out inactive players is more of a bad thing for town than I think, pleaseeeee let me know, this is just my best guess of the situation. Let Me Be Better At This Game Please


lol me too bro. i've also been pro-inactive lynching during this thread but it was under exactly this assumption, so uh, someone lmk! thanks in adv!


Herbe said:


> I don't necessarily want to lynch on "cagey" d1, though. rari went kinda ham on it and while that does make me uncomfortable, my gut doesn't say it's malicious.





Herbe said:


> Otter's cageyness is useful information going forward, but (and maybe this is my non-confrontational coming out) I don't want to jump her ass immediately.


and then i found out after this that not much was said that i didn't agree with p much immediately, except (and i'm sorry to dig this back up in the recap phase)


Keldeo said:


> Actually, nvm, how kyeugh explained that does make sense to me, if you connect the first/third points and second/third points separately.


i still am ever so slightly :|a about what happened during that whole ordeal. idk if you're still going back (obviously don't worry about it in that case) but can you elaborate on this part a bit more?


----------



## rari_teh

Herbe said:


> (and dear God I refuse to do mafia posts on my phone. my eyes and fingers don't work that way.)


Ah, a fellow man of culture, I see *swishes glass of brandy*



Herbe said:


> I feel kinda timid about going hard after people based on reads and feelings d1, since I'm inexperienced and I know somehow I'm gonna fuck it up of course.


Lesson learned…



Herbe said:


> Best case: assuming there are like, what, 5 or 6 mafia (iirc what someone said about the usual ratios earlier in the thread) then we take out 1/5 or 1/6 of the mafia. Even an inactive mafia is an essential boost to their numbers, so it's more important to them than it is to us.


I hadn’t thought things from that perspective. Hm.


----------



## mewtini

rari_teh said:


> Lesson learned…


ftr i (at least personally) had no issue with you raising issue during ottertime! i think especially at this juncture it's valuable to hear from everyone. in my case i was concerned w/keeping the peace in that moment but it would be kind of sad imo if you didn't let us know about future gut feelings/logic reads ;(


----------



## mewtini

mewtini said:


> issue with you raising issue


sigh


----------



## rari_teh

mewtini said:


> ftr i (at least personally) had no issue with you raising issue during ottertime! i think especially at this juncture it's valuable to hear from everyone. in my case i was concerned w/keeping the peace in that moment but it would be kind of sad imo if you didn't let us know about future gut feelings/logic reads ;(


I still plan on sharing my reads and (most) gut feelings, but I’ll be more cautious about how I present them…



mewtini said:


> ottertime


lol


----------



## Keldeo

If I'm understanding what you mean by "cautious" correctly, there's no need to be cautious, rari! The more sincere thoughts you give, the more people can interpret where you're coming from and be swayed by your ideas.  

I think lynching inactive people is probably something we can afford to do for a bit, especially if the next best alternative is abstaining - abstaining essentially trades away a chance to resolve the alignment of someone who we don't know a lot about. There are (probably) active mafia so it won't be a winning strategy, of course, but we'll have to deal with inactive people sooner or later because if they don't get more active, it's hard to read them.


Herbe, why do you townread mewtini?

mewtini - still reading, yeah. There's the sort of implied "I don't think town MI Seshas would have hidden all of their information" between the first and third points, and the second point is also implied and connects to the vote, if that makes sense? Like I can construct a potential root of kyeugh's initial line of thought as similar to Mawile's - "MIs wouldn't get so little information (so Seshas is hiding something / not a MI, so that makes me suspicious that they're 3p / I want them to explain)"

Also you both seem to think I'm good at this game... I'll have you know I just played like three town games where I had no idea what was going on and was really wrong! You Have No Idea Who You're Dealing With!


----------



## rari_teh

Keldeo said:


> Also you both seem to think I'm good at this game... I'll have you know I just played like three town games where I had no idea what was going on and was really wrong! You Have No Idea Who You're Dealing With!


I smell Dunning-Kruger. Your experience makes you think you’re not experienced enough.


----------



## Keldeo

Also, mewtini, have you got any spicy takes? (something you've thought that you don't think anyone else has posted about?)


----------



## mewtini

Keldeo said:


> Also, mewtini, have you got any spicy takes? (something you've thought that you don't think anyone else has posted about?)


as of now i don't think so, but i'm actually starting to go back and try to compile notes to verify this. i'll report back uwu


----------



## Herbe

I went back to look for specific things that gave me Good Feels, here are some in random order (with comments!) 



mewtini said:


> was wondering about this but couldn't tell if it was just borne out of the early negrek-VM associations, since they both semi-roleclaimed early on


this was a comment on someone else's take and it seems like... actually Involved and Thinky. like, you can tell she's puzzling things out outside of just thinking up shit to say in the middle of being in the thread.


mewtini said:


> also idk if this is still a topic of discourse but i also want to like, formally take back the shade i briefly threw on kyeugh last night. i was kind of  because the way it read to me she cast suspicion on seshas without (i thought) any rationale/i kind of felt like it was a reach and i read her early explanation as a bit of an awk backpedal
> 
> but after sleeping on it and reading back through her justification and eifie talking about it after the fact i'm a bit more comforted now


I really like how this shade-retraction is worded. it's specific and not just "well shit, my bandwagon failed, let's hop off."


mewtini said:


> fr though do we actually have any ideas other than "kill the inactive, shrug"


"kill the inactive, shrug" would theoretically be perfectly acceptable for a mafia member (yes.... I realise that I'm voting for an inactive right now until further notice :/// just saying that her looking for more ideas than that is townish to me)


mewtini said:


> i just meant that atm the awkward reads we had on her are the only leads we have thus far so i think investigation is in order.


just goes with my Involved And Cares And Such quotes


mewtini said:


> continuing to say that, even if i can definitely construe it as an opportunistic take, i don't even know how dangerous it is considering that they kind of backed off of it. they haven't unvoted afaik, but they also haven't put a lot of effort into leading others to the same conclusion; they've chiefly just been a follower in this game (sorry to beat a dead horse). even though in that one long post they mentioned vote placement being a way to get others to vote for someone, i don't know if i believe yet that that's their end game, since they've seemed very content to have their vote just exist in the ether for the time being


i just really fail to believe that mafia!mewtini would give as much of a shit to really dig this deep for this take tbh. she seems genuinely investigatey about this, and definitely isn't jumping ppls asses even when it would hypothetically be easy to cast stronger suspicion on others

so yeah! there's my evidence and such. I suppose it is useful to collate things like that instead of relying on general vibe checks. thanks for the push keldeo!! might do more like this in the future should the mood strike me (or someone asks me to)


----------



## mewtini

Keldeo said:


> Also, mewtini, have you got any spicy takes? (something you've thought that you don't think anyone else has posted about?)


i'm exactly at the halfway point but i have a few (maybe unimportant, tbh) qs. i'll maybe return later with more, idk if that'll be tonight or tomorrow, depends on how strong my will is! (or how much i care about my ongoing sleep deprivation.)
---------------------
1. what is the current climate in re: indigoemmy? are we trusting the roleclaim at the moment? fsr i'm perfectly good with reading back through our thread but can't get up the spirit to fully read (beyond skimming) the MI talk in tvt mafia #1, but i kind of wonder if it was possible for that roleclaim to be faked when she was a bit lackadaisical about it here:


IndigoEmmy said:


> Or am i lying and just overreacting? you tell me?


(tbh i don't think this is actually anything significant, AND i forget what info was even deleted; did she post her role pm or something?) 
obviously she was having fun with things (hahaha to say the least), it's just that afaik she's given us exactly the same information as was given through informant!hopeandjoy in tvt #1. either way i kind of don't care about this, it's just a thought and at some point i think eifie declared emmy mechcleared and i didn't realize that was the consensus

2. i forget what i've said about ILS in the past (other than when rari and i were talking about seshas' take on ILS' genuine-seeming response to VM's superpower claim) but looking back and connecting the dots, i actually kind of understand what rari meant here:


rari_teh said:


> He seems to get suspicious easily. [...]
> I believe he’s town, though you can never be 100% sure.


and at the time i wasn't sure because i was slightly uncomfortable with rari's reaction to otter, but atm i can't tell if ILS is just inactive and occasionally popping in to offer insights that, imo, have been low-hanging fruit: he wasn't alone when he posted about the possibility of mafia!negrek, though notably i don't think anyone else questioned/is questioning VM's slipup, other than ILS. (the benevolent seshas/rari/me read notwithstanding, i think the alternative to 'inactivity' is something kind of questionable)


I liek Squirtles said:


> That's true, especially that it's a role that could be easily faked. To be honest, I'm also a little suspicious of VM because they backtracked on their claim. It's still too early to be sure of much of anything, at any rate.


given that we had been establishing a flow chart between negrek/vm (whose roles, if true - and i have no reason to believe they aren't - are obviously v connected during n0/d1/n1), i guess i just feel a little bit ? that he was suspicious of both claims, but maybe that's just due to how i saw it as a bit of a clear-cut situation; either negrek and vm both correctly roleclaimed, and checking on VM would check this out, OR (mafia!)negrek was lying and VM is a loose end, OR they're both lying and outcome 2 happens anyway. (*by the way* was there real discussion of protecting him, if only for verification's sake?)

also having sorted through the thread/checking most of the list for inactivity, i don't think we were aware that flora has only posted twice (once during early game, without any of the then-ongoing flavorspec, and once in 347 for a short post). insignificant but i figure i'll save someone else the time that i spent checking/would like to hear from as many people as possible


----------



## mewtini

in re: ils i forgot to mention


I liek Squirtles said:


> I'm getting kinda not great vibes from rari_teh... they've been super quick to pounce on Negrek, hm.


and this may just be up to how i read context but at the time i thought rari's negrek discussion seemed more solvy than shit-stirring, and other than the seshas read thing (idk what else to refer to it as), i don't think i've seen ils post anything of any other nature


----------



## mewtini

tbh also total disclaimer that this is only based on me literally going back to page one and reading until page 21, so i think there's a distinct possibility i exaggerated things that no longer matter.

also how the fuck do you guys manage to make such long posts ... all the time ... lol. i feel WINDED right now


----------



## Keldeo

Catchup part 2.

I think in a vacuum it's notable that what Otter wanted to post about first was proving a supposed strong town role, but ehh, I don't think her post is like, super damning in the context of her being on TCoDf. I think wanting to try to prove roles and reading over the thread without posting any thoughts are not really that scummy for most people here. I also don't think she was advocating for VM to like prove himself immediately, she mentioned it was a general idea that could be on a future day, so I'm not sure where Seshas got that. I'm interested in more from Otter - I think that would be more readable. 



Eifie said:


> idk about kyeugh but I kind of wondered if the "I can't unsee it" might be a disproportionate reaction to what is a kind of meh and not necessarily scum-indicative thing. I'm too lazy to look into it tbh. peasants, do the work for me.


Hmm. I thought it was disproportionate, but also I find Rari's explanation fine, and I get the point that you and mewtini raised (in different words) that Rari has been kind of... agendaless in their posts. This is an off-the-cuff read and I probably need to look at them more, but it's like, they have made these kinda sheepy scumreads but they're not really strongly pushing them to other people, and their internal viewpoint seems consistent too. Does that make sense... I might be biased by the fact that a lot of their posting has read genuinely/pure to me :V

I'm not sure how to feel about kyeugh's push on Rari overall, but I do like that she felt weird about Rari's original suspicion of her but didn't push it immediately, she brought it up after she saw a pattern, and the second post quoted here is really thoughtful about Rari's POV imo. Her position on them seems fluid in a good way.


Spoiler






kyeugh said:


> anyway i don’t like rari’s vote tbh because their vote on me pinged me as kind of weird/sudden, but i try not to base my reads on the way people read me, so i kind of tucked it away. but that combined with how they seemed confused at the notion of a pressure vote and their imo overblown reaction to the analysis on rebecca gives me kinda opportunistic vibes
> 
> not strong ones mind you but i still don’t like it





kyeugh said:


> i don’t think they were at all. they definitely see the distinction, they just don’t think wanting someone to talk more is worth a vote. that’s why they assumed i was gung ho about seshas based on my vote, and they also specified earlier that they were suspicious of me and wanted me to talk but didn’t think i was LIKELY to be scum which is why they didn’t vote. given they vote for one of these feelings and not the other i’d say they’re distinguishing them more than i do





Definitely don't think they're partners, or that kyeugh and mewtini are partners, based off the prolonged and like, tricky nature of the conversation. I know that probably doesn't make sense but I don't strongly think any of them are mafia so it likely won't come into play.

Mewtini also felt pretty natural and flowy, especially in that conversation. But I think want to see a bit more original stuff from her, it's possible I'm overcompensating for Eifie feeling very pocketed by her :P

I like Herbe's recent posting - it feels natural and genuine. Pretty comfortable with him as town for now.


----------



## Keldeo

Questions for folks:

@rari_teh, what makes you think that kyeugh is town? Also, can I get a quick summary of your reads so far, I feel like you've been pretty present and transparent but also you've changed your mind on things so it's hard for me to get a full picture of where you are right now.

@Herbe, what do you think about kyeugh and rari independently, and their discussion with mewtini about the voting thing?



kyeugh said:


> i don’t think seshas is mafia basically no matter what—only anti-town third party MAYBE, and solitary even then. i can’t really conceive of a situation i believe in even a little bit rn in which you are defending him for selfish reasons


 @kyeugh, forgive me if you addressed this somewhere and I missed it, but what made you think Seshas wasn't mafia? And you pointed out kokorico's read on me but I'm not sure if you were disagreeing with it or expressing a read on em, do you have any thoughts on em emself? - Also, most important question, do you have any particular townreads so far? 




kokorico said:


> Spoiler: referenced rari_teh post
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rari_teh said:
> 
> 
> 
> Well… I won’t deny, for like 50% of the time I’ve been here I was pretty sure _you_ [Keldeo] were mafia. I don’t remember exactly what post first made me think that, but… lately I’ve been reassessing that evaluation. Not entirely convinced either way.
> 
> And Mawile. I also don’t quite remember what was it (I should really have taken better notes), but something seems _off_ (sorry!). Those are more gut feelings than actual readings, anyway.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> My impressions pretty much exactly match rari_teh's. The tentative feeling I was unsure about sharing was that *Keldeo* was coming off as mafia to me.
Click to expand...

 @kokorico, when you said your impressions matched rari's, did that also include a read on Mawile or was that about something else / just generally because you were suspecting me?



Eifie said:


> *The Queen*
> Eifie!
> [snip]


@Eifie can you tell me about Mawile being the I Like One Or Two Posts tier, and since you're masons with me and not a cop, do you have any opinion on Mist's posts? 

I generally have pretty similar thoughts to your list. Maybe I'm doing the thing where I townread everyone :wowee: I think you made a good point about serimachi that I didn't really consider, but I don't know if I'd put them in that tier. 


Spoiler



Maybe talk to me more about my rari take? idk. My really awful read is that rari has outside communication with someone because they've said "RNP" and "qva" when I... don't think anyone else has? Maybe you did?





Mist1422 said:


> Eifie can you talk to me a bit about your probably town pile minus mewtini and Herbe


 @Mist1422, why'd you ask about these people (rari, kyeugh, serimachi) in specific? Do you have a further read on that group / what's your read on mewtini and Herbe? Do you have any other thoughts you'd like to share?


----------



## Keldeo

Kinda meh on most of my reads tbh, but I have townreads that I feel some amount of good about on like 10 people, and that's fair enough for d1. Eifie, I know you were concerned about townreading people who were posting, but also I feel like high postcount ~= town is somewhat valid for TCoDf d1s, taking into account that this is an atypical TCoDf d1.

Not being sure about kyeugh's push on Rari is not actually a correct representation of my thoughts. I think I like her overall.

Mewtini can be town now for putting the work in via rereading 20 pages. >o< (I also like that she noticed the things she's pointed out.)




mewtini said:


> 1. what is the current climate in re: indigoemmy? are we trusting the roleclaim at the moment?


 I haven't read any of TVTropes 1, but (1) I don't think that IndigoEmmy would have known enough about that game to have known about Mysterious Informants existing, so her roleclaim's probably true, and (2) I think her claim of it was towny - specifically the way that she went about, like, dancing around having the information and sort of drip-feeding it into the thread and being very "ha ha you'll never guess" about it...

I do take back my earlier read that this was her first mafia game since she's played irl, and it's possible that she got fed the information for (1) through a mafia chat, but then (2) is still true so I'm pretty sure she is town. I think the posts like the one you quoted, such as feeling underestimated and being playful about the possibility that she's mafia, are probably a sentiment she'd feel as either alignment. 

What do you think?



			
				mewtini said:
			
		

> (the benevolent seshas/rari/me read notwithstanding, i think the alternative to 'inactivity' is something kind of questionable)


 Sorry, what does this mean?


			
				mewtini said:
			
		

> atm i can't tell if ILS is just inactive and occasionally popping in to offer insights that, imo, have been low-hanging fruit: he wasn't alone when he posted about the possibility of mafia!negrek, though notably i don't think anyone else questioned/is questioning VM's slipup, other than ILS.)


It sounds like you have an opposite read to rari there, is that right?

I don't have a super strong opinion on ILS, I see what you mean about his early posting but I could also see it going either way. What do you think of the "derpclear" that Seshas pointed out? It makes sense to me but it's really not at the strength level of like, a "body of work" read.

I probably won't be here very much before the deadline.


----------



## mewtini

Keldeo said:


> I haven't read any of TVTropes 1, but (1) *I don't think that IndigoEmmy would have known enough about that game to have known about Mysterious Informants existing*, so her roleclaim's probably true, and (2) I think her claim of it was towny - specifically the way that she went about, like, dancing around having the information and sort of drip-feeding it into the thread and being very "ha ha you'll never guess" about it...


yeah this is why i think it was a reach on my part, but one where it was a remote possibility IF she had the #guts for it. also in 497 when butterfree said


> There are commonalities, and talking about the previous game is worthwhile to some extent, but the previous game does not give information that applies to this one - just because something was true there does not mean it's true here.


i wasn't sure if this meant that a full role-recycle would ever happen, and i guess that's maybe a pointless q to ask since it's definitionally answerless during the game's run, but. basically i don't really know why she's been read as pure town aside from her roleclaim, because i don't think it's beyond imagination that if she were ever genuinely suspected (which she hasn't been) that she would grow desperate. so i guess i just didn't read her as being super in-flow. 

(i also liked a point made earlier, maybe by you? about how she wouldn't have made attention-grabbing moves as mafia, but i also think it's possible - assuming she knew about the hopeandjoy informant role - that she thought roleclaiming would save her regardless)


----------



## mewtini

Keldeo said:


> Sorry, what does this mean?


basically i meant that either ils was a) genuinely inactive and just showing up to agree with (very, very) easy to read group sentiments, or b) he was trying to feign involvement, but i really do think it's completely impossible to tell which right now. (oh, and the seshas read was in reference to when he reacted to VM's unlim-vigilante claim; not sure if that was also unclear in my phrasing)


Keldeo said:


> It sounds like you have an opposite read to rari there, is that right?


i was with rari, i think, in not really thinking anything of ils until i read from p0-p21


Keldeo said:


> What do you think of the "derpclear" that Seshas pointed out?


i agreed with it! but i didn't think it was super foolproof. i thought it made sense since ils had been responsive, but not entirely attentive, and it was a (seemingly) off-the-cuff post from ils that seshas was referring to. basically everything that ils has said has seemed similarly in-the-moment which makes me swing between "inactive but wants to be involved" and "unsavory but wants to avoid getting flagged"


----------



## mewtini

Keldeo said:


> I see what you mean about his early posting but I could also see it going either way.


tl;dr i agree with you lol, honestly i think that the moment i feel anything off about anyone i start trying to deconstruct exactly why and maybe i hyperbolize it a bit in the process. i'm having a really hard time suspecting any of the active players with, like, maybe .5 of an exception (that i need to think more about, that's kind of why i'm rereading) and it's really criminally easy to instantly and habitually separate out the quieter people or the entirely inactives from the superactives


----------



## Keldeo

Thanks!  

I thought Rari was expressing a townlean on ILS there, and I don't think activity is that alignment indicative for ILS but I think your pair of takes on it make sense. Wahoo, deconstruction of thoughts!



mewtini said:


> basically i don't really know why she's been read as pure town aside from her roleclaim, because *i don't think it's beyond imagination that if she were ever genuinely suspected (which she hasn't been) that she would grow desperate. so i guess i just didn't read her as being super in-flow.*


Hmm, I'm having a little trouble understanding how these thoughts fit together for you. 

I have the exact opposite read on her "flowiness" - I feel like that sequence makes more sense if you read through with the idea that she's an excited townie who wants to have fun claiming information she thinks is useful but also wants to at least try to hide her role, vs. she's mafia and was, like, told that other people know that Mysterious Informant is a role that exists and she needs to claim it so people townread her. I feel like it would come out much more rigidly / some of her reactions wouldn't have happened the way they did if it were the latter case. Also, in that world, why claim it just then - she was not really getting heat iirc?

You're right, it is probably a bad assumption to just assume that all Mysterious Informants will still be town or something like that. I still feel like the way she claimed and a few later posts she made were pretty unselfconscious even if she is a mafia Mysterious Informant.



			
				mewtini said:
			
		

> (i also liked a point made earlier, maybe by you? about how she wouldn't have made attention-grabbing moves as mafia, but i also think it's possible - assuming she knew about the hopeandjoy informant role - that she thought roleclaiming would save her regardless)


I think that point was Eifie's, about kyeugh suspecting Seshas?


----------



## mewtini

Keldeo said:


> Hmm, I'm having a little trouble understanding how these thoughts fit together for you.


ha sorry honestly i might be incapable of 100% coherence (5am vibes) but i can try :') at the time i didn't read her as super confident necessarily, but i think i'm biased because of her (tbh relatable) panic about accidental rulebreaking. i think we also haven't seen her under any pressure - not that she should be under any - but it's kind of hard to say anything when she's only been in play for very comparatively quiet parts of the day. hoooowever,



Keldeo said:


> I have the exact opposite read on her "flowiness" - I feel like that sequence makes more sense if you read through with the idea that *she's an excited townie who wants to have fun claiming information she thinks is useful but also wants to at least try to hide her role*, vs. she's mafia and was, like, told that other people know that Mysterious Informant is a role that exists and she needs to claim it so people townread her. I feel like it would come out much more rigidly / some of her reactions wouldn't have happened the way they did if it were the latter case.


this is legit. admittedly i skimmed this part of the thread bc i thought i remembered what went down, so iirc i also didn't know that she hadn't really played mafia at that point (she confirmed later that she's a bit newer, though). i guess i'm curious about why you think the second possibility isn't possible; this is also maybe a reach, but even though a lot of us haven't read tvt #1, there are still some of us who have who could be in scumchat and who would realize that hopeandjoy's role was entirely public. and tbh i think from seeing her around that she could make anything sound cute and happy, full compliments to her


Spoiler: far reach



this is the paraphrased pm that emmy posted:


IndigoEmmy said:


> I am yet another Mysterious Informant. My power is Expospeak, and I can tell that there are magic doctors and Nanomachine using doctors. The two sides don't get along.


but it doesn't really seem to match her grammatical style which made me briefly go into Conspirator Mode and wonder if she typed it herself but then again she might've just been really careful? lol





Keldeo said:


> Also, in that world, why claim it just then - she was not really getting heat iirc?


agree!


----------



## mewtini

mewtini said:


> agree!


that is to say: i kind of am just tired!loopy and going through the full thread for the first time, so i think it's very fair as i said before that i might just be going ham; neither of these points are things i'm super committed to or in love with, i'm just kinda speculating full-out since this is the first chance i've gotten to read everything at once


----------



## Keldeo

That's totally fair, these thoughts are good. I hope you get a good night's sleep!!


mewtini said:


> i guess i'm curious about why you think the second possibility isn't possible; this is also maybe a reach, but even though a lot of us haven't read tvt #1, there are still some of us who have who could be in scumchat and who would realize that hopeandjoy's role was entirely public.


No, I think it's a decent argument that if any mafia were familiar with the first game, they'd be trying to harness that knowledge to make good fake claims or something. What I mean is I have a bit of a hard time seeing IndigoEmmy, like... being _told_ to claim Mysterious Informant in the thread, and then like, posting the letters jumbled up and getting play-irritated at Eifie for "tricking her" into claiming it and stuff.

The other alternate possibility that I haven't thought about that much is that she's mafia and also a Mysterious Informant, I guess?


----------



## mewtini

Keldeo said:


> I think that point was Eifie's, about kyeugh suspecting Seshas?


i'm not gonna lie i thought it was about emmy but i might just not be remembering correctly, i'll have to check on that



Eifie said:


> Seshas and IndigoEmmy are basically lock town imo


also i didn't really think to look at this earlier even though the spoilered far-reach was something i immediately wondered because, even w/out all the memes about eifie and i bouncing off of each other, i actually have agreed with most of her takes thus far. 



Keldeo said:


> The other alternate possibility that I haven't thought about that much is that she's mafia and also a Mysterious Informant, I guess?


this is possible! idk how faithful bfree is being to the tropes' alignments but it sounded like MI is typically a benevolent trope, so i didn't really think of this earlier



Keldeo said:


> What I mean is I have a bit of a hard time seeing IndigoEmmy, like... being _told_ to claim Mysterious Informant in the thread, and then like, posting the letters jumbled up and getting play-irritated at Eifie for "tricking her" into claiming it and stuff.


this is also fair and i think that whole sequence is one of my hangups, too, i just ... idk. she seems enthusiastic enough that she would either decide to do this alone or be inspired to with very little effort? but i think there are other things about my take that don't make sense, primarily the reveal timing, but i'm really just fully out on a limb and rolling with it



Keldeo said:


> since you're masons with me and not a cop


on that note can you just verify (guessing yes?) whether or not this was also a meme, i feel like it'd be amiss for me to just ignore this phrase


----------



## mewtini

mewtini said:


> amiss


... *remiss


mewtini said:


> whether or not this was also a meme,


also amending this to just be "meme for the time being" for greater ambiguity


----------



## Keldeo

Yeah, I'm always masons with Eifie as a meme for the time being.


----------



## mewtini

just signing off: i've officially gotten through everything but i think the main points brought up during the second half of the thread were the 2 voting dramas, so i'm going to actually go to sleep at the green-eared hour of 5:50am and actually compile everything tomorrow :D


----------



## M&F

aha, weaklings! I'm about to make a long post on mobile,  and I'll link to TV tropes the entire time I do it!

... don't mind me not putting any quotes on this post btw

wrt activity in general: I feel it's worth pointing out that, although a relative dearth of engagement can be scummy, a high level of engagement as mafia... well, it can be very risky, but there are some crucial rewards at stake for the ones who pursue it. deflecting blame from a scumbuddy, or distancing oneself from one to earn Townie Points... not to mention that speculating on town's power roles and hunting for third-parties is very much in a mafiosx's interest (much as I hate to say it because I'll do the former out of sheer nerdy curiosity anyway)

which is all to say, careful about townreading someone just because they contribute! gotta make sure their contributions are helping town, too. although this is certainly something far easier to examine in the long-term; right now, lynching ostensibly useful posters sure seems less appealling than offing inactives

speaking of, I can't remember what prompted me thinki ng about it now, but I was thinking it'd be hilarious and adorable if it turned out mewtini and herbe were mafia together rn. like, I'd still lynch them both but I'd hate to,

wrt IndigoEmmy -- the impression I got is that she was being coy with her info because she was roleplaying the part of Mysterious Informant as given to her, and frankly I'm not sure why no one else seems to have arrived at that conclusion earlier!

wrt I Liek Squirtles -- I'll need to refreshen up on the fabled derpclear, but otherwise, I do have to point I've seen more activity from him in other games where he was town. again, this sort of thing can come with either a scummy explanation or a neutral one, but it Sure Is


----------



## Keldeo

Ohh, that makes sense wrt IndigoEmmy, haha.

MF, is there anyone who’s particularly active who you don’t think has been very towny? I think it’s good to keep in mind that activity =/= town but I feel like I’ve got decent reasons for townreading some of the people who have been more around.

Also your power level in linking to TV Tropes from mobile... I shudder to think of your Charged Attack!


----------



## kyeugh

i think the stuff about emmy is reaching

to answer your questions keldeo: i was fairly sure seshas was either mi or infiltrator, neither of which are scum

i need to reread to get a better grasp on kokorico but you are definitely in my town pile and the only thing i can remember em doing at all rn is posting an imo pretty bad take on you so that’s not really a good look. but idk that it’s necessarily scummy. will need to take another look at it. my intent with the post you’re referring to was to disagree with er take though, not to shade them


----------



## M&F

Keldeo said:


> Also your power level in linking to TV Tropes from mobile... I shudder to think of your Charged Attack!


this isn't even my final form!

I was more making an advertence than anything, since I feel like some of the recent reads have been veering into the direction of "I'm townreading x for being active and helpful"; it'll be a lot easier to determine who's actually being helpful on the long run for sure, I'd just be wary of letting people Score Points now when it's muddier. (fwiw I did voice my tentative skepticism of your activity in particular; I guess your more recent posts feel more like your usual self though, so hmmmmmmmmmmmm.)

oh yeah, I also completely forgot to post about this earlier, but -- we sure didn't continue the cop cover thing for very long, huh?


----------



## Eifie

Keldeo I'm masons with you _and_ a cop. Come on dude.

idk why I tried to read the thread when I just want to go back to sleep

I'm going to completely ignore any IndigoEmmy stuff because come on guys. she's obviously town lol.


----------



## Eifie

I had double digit notifications when I woke up and half of them were Keldeo haha-ing my posts

Keldeo asked about my Herbe read and yeah I was also losing confidence because he stopped posting and then he came back and posted some stuff and I'm fine again

he also said at some point that activity tends to correlate with being town on tcodf and like yeah cool but missing just one mafia means we lose, so. but idc much about that right now anyway I don't need to be 100% correct on d1

I can't believe Herbe doesn't townread me smh I am offended   

also @rari_teh nooo don't say lesson learned, I appreciate all your posts. please just post how you feel like posting. it's our job to read you correctly.


----------



## Eifie

@Boquise whenever we're on the phone and you ask what I'm up to and I say "haha totally nothing haha" the actual answer is "playing the mafia game that I can't talk to you about out of thread" so come play plzzzzz


----------



## mewtini

kyeugh said:


> i think the stuff about emmy is reaching





Eifie said:


> I'm going to completely ignore any IndigoEmmy stuff because come on guys. she's obviously town lol.


hoping this doesn't come off as a backpedal but yeah, now that i've ... slept i'm reading back now and definitely am a lot less interested in the train of thought i had going than i was when i was talking about it lmfao. idk. i know it's day one but the impatient part of me is depressed that there aren't any scumreads ;( so i'm like, nonkek sorry for kind of wasting everyone's reading time on that bit. :T

i am wondering if anyone had thoughts on what i said about ils though, aside from what mf said



M&F said:


> wrt IndigoEmmy -- the impression I got is that she was being coy with her info because she was roleplaying the part of Mysterious Informant as given to her, and frankly I'm not sure why no one else seems to have arrived at that conclusion earlier!


tbh i think when i made this claim with seshas it was kind of unpopular (in retrospect, that was for other reasons) so fsr i conflated them and then i kind of discarded it when i was In Thought last night


M&F said:


> wrt I Liek Squirtles -- I'll need to refreshen up on the fabled derpclear, but otherwise, I do have to point I've seen more activity from him in other games where he was town. again, this sort of thing can come with either a scummy explanation or a neutral one, but it Sure Is


can you talk more about this? i don't really know anything about anyone's game and i think this one is skewed because of how quickly we've moved within less than a day so maybe i'm just misreading. but if i've counted right he's made 7 posts so far: two of them are just "i'm alive/not caught up yet" posts, and the rest fall into the type that i talked about


----------



## mewtini

mewtini said:


> can you talk more about this? i don't really know anything about anyone's game and i think this one is skewed because of how quickly we've moved within less than a day so maybe i'm just misreading. but if i've counted right he's made 7 posts so far: two of them are just "i'm alive/not caught up yet" posts, and the rest fall into the type that i talked about


oh. i misread mf's original post (thought it was implying ils' play was more consistent with town), whoops


----------



## Eifie

personally I don't find it useful to make activity reads compared to previous games on anyone who isn't used to games of moderate activity level like this one. the people in this game that _are_ accustomed to games of at least this activity level are like... me, Keldeo, kyeugh sort of?, Mist1422, Seshas I assume, Boquise, and Panini. I think I got everyone?

oh yeah someone said something about rari_teh using nicknames and I've definitely said both "RNP" and "qva" this game, the latter multiple times, although idk the timelines of when I said them and when rari_teh did


----------



## Eifie

Eifie said:


> personally I don't find it useful to make activity reads compared to previous games on anyone who isn't used to games of moderate activity level like this one. the people in this game that _are_ accustomed to games of at least this activity level are like... me, Keldeo, kyeugh sort of?, Mist1422, Seshas I assume, Boquise, and Panini. I think I got everyone?


(and in all these cases the games to compare to would not be on tcodf)


----------



## Novae

Keldeo said:


> @Mist1422, why'd you ask about these people (rari, kyeugh, serimachi) in specific? Do you have a further read on that group / what's your read on mewtini and Herbe? Do you have any other thoughts you'd like to share?


I was getting better gut vibes off of mewtini and herbe 

that’s pretty much it


----------



## IndigoClaudia

mewtini said:


> this is the paraphrased pm that emmy posted:
> 
> 
> 
> IndigoEmmy said:
> I am yet another Mysterious Informant. My power is Expospeak, and I can tell that there are magic doctors and Nanomachine using doctors. The two sides don't get along.
> 
> 
> 
> but it doesn't really seem to match her grammatical style which made me briefly go into Conspirator Mode and wonder if she typed it herself but then again she might've just been really careful? lol
> but it doesn't really seem to match her grammatical style which made me briefly go into Conspirator Mode and wonder if she typed it herself but then again she might've just been really careful? lol
Click to expand...

Alright then here's a better way to phrase that.



Spoiler: Far better



lel i'm a Spooky wooky mysterious informant. I speak in exospeak, and the spooky magic doctor and the nanobot machines doctor and they don't like eachother much.


----------



## mewtini

now that i actually have some written notes, i think i'm just going to post my pseudotier list at this point - esp because i'm concerned that my 5am posts made it look like my reads changed a bit more than they actually did. these are maybe in order for the most part, trying to do this on some sort of gradient (so higher overall, but it's d1 muddy in a few places (there's not much difference between the bottom half of maybe-town and the tier below it other than "i inexplicably felt like putting them there"). also i fell hard into the active/inactive bias, oops

*town probably? *mostly ranked

seshas (partly by roleclaim)
herbe
emmy (partly by roleclaim)
kyeugh
vm (partly by roleclaim. also, unclear but i don't think matters much in either direction, since iirc he kind of forfeited, right?)
rari
eif
negrek (liked her at first and haven't seen much of lately)
*town, maybe? *sort of ranked, muddy in the middle

keldeo (toss up between these top lists)
kokorico
mr. ultracool (true neutral read. active enough, hasn't said a lot but seems like a newer player)
serimachi (mostly neutral read; i liked the tone of their initial post suspecting eifie but imo it could have ultimately not meant as much as i thought it did back then. also they haven't said anything since post 246, despite having been online a lot more recently than that)
mist (also mostly neutral read, just haven't seen very much from them; has solicited opinions once which was cool but i don't think i've seen more than that. though they also turned up mechclear in eifie's list, unsure where that came from?)
mawile
ils (for reasons described, toss up between this list and the one below)
*don't really know what to think *sort of ranked but not really, muddier in the middle as well
_[ps half of these are just for inactivity, or for not giving info
that i thought was substantial (relatively, anyway), so grain
of salt tbh since a lot of these guys r probably just overwhelmed]_

mf (high in this tier just for being active, this is also a toss up categorization for me)
boquise (kinda same as serimachi but with more activity and without seri's towny entrance)
panini
stryke (4 posts, none substantive, has been recently active)
odie_pie (0 posts)
flora (2 posts, early game/during setup)
rnp (3 posts, none substantive)
*already ranked but i like their trope skill*

mf
ok there was someone else who was supposed to be here but i forget who it was
*DEFINITELY scum!!1!1*

[/hide]
[/img
the girl reading this </3


----------



## mewtini

mewtini said:


> so higher overall = townier


fixing


----------



## qenya

I'm a little bit lost and think I need to go back and re-read to figure out why we're all suddenly FoSing rari_teh, among other things, but I can reply to some of the things directly addressed at me.



Keldeo said:


> @rari_teh and @kokorico both said that my later posting had them feeling better about me so I'm interested to hear what they mean by that / what made them think so, because my own perception is that I got less engaged later on.


For my part, actually that decrease in engagement was what made you seem more towny. To clarify, it's not _making little contribution_ that I find/found suspicious, it's making little contribution _while also posting a lot _(even excluding jokes). (Since she expressed confusion that I wasn't going after actual inactives, I think kyeugh also misunderstood this distinction.)

Also IIRC you were one of the first people to voice your support for obvtown IndigoEmmy (in the same message you explained you and Eifie weren't really masons), even before people twigged her role, which seems an oddly specific limb to go out on if you were mafia.



Keldeo said:


> I wasn't saying she was lying about her role - I was thinking it wouldn't be that far-fetched for her role, in a vacuum, to be real but also be on mafia. But in context, I feel like mafia Negrek might also want to keep her role and her role's info to herself / promote confusion by letting people continue to think something weird happened with Jack's life status.


Ah, ok, I misunderstood that. I'm not sure how we would go about proving/disproving it.

Also apologies for misgendering you earlier @Negrek.



Keldeo said:


> @kokorico, when you said your impressions matched rari's, did that also include a read on Mawile or was that about something else / just generally because you were suspecting me?


No, I was talking about her read, and her level of confidence in her read, on you. I have no read on Mawile. I don't even remember any of his posts, eek.


----------



## mewtini

kokorico said:


> FoSing rari_teh


sorry! can you explain what this means


----------



## Eifie

Mist1422 is my n0 green check.

FoS means finger of suspicion, or just, like, suspecting someone openly.


----------



## qenya

mewtini said:


> sorry! can you explain what this means


pointing the Finger of Suspicion, i.e., suggesting rari might be mafia


----------



## mewtini

Eifie said:


> Mist1422 is my n0 green check.


tbqh i didn't realize you weren't memeing about that until just now


----------



## Eifie

mewtini said:


> tbqh i didn't realize you weren't memeing about that until just now


I have never memed in my life, bro!

It's my cop cover though, so it doesn't mean everyone else should be taking it as fact. I'm too lazy to find the posts about it again but I recommend going back and reading them


----------



## mewtini

Eifie said:


> It's my cop cover though, so it doesn't mean everyone else should be taking it as fact. I'm too lazy to find the posts about it again but I recommend going back and reading them


yeah i'm p sure i thought it was even more meme than normal since it was in the mechclear tier, alongside only keldeo :P


kokorico said:


> To clarify, it's not _making little contribution_ that I find/found suspicious, it's making little contribution _while also posting a lot _(even excluding jokes).


i kind of am sad that this was posted before i finalized my list because it does change one of my cusp reads


----------



## mewtini

mewtini said:


> posted before i finalized my list


gdi, *after.


----------



## Eifie

I'm considering going back to making no contribution while also posting a lot tbh


----------



## mewtini

Eifie said:


> I'm considering going back to making no contribution while also posting a lot tbh





kyeugh said:


> wtf no


----------



## Ottercopter

serimachi said:


> Hi, guys. First time player here.
> 
> [......]
> 
> Also, I didn't count on how it would genuinely make a part of me feel gross to vote on people to kill!   I'll *abstain* based on no good grounds to suspect anyone, unless someone explains to me why that's a bad idea.


Not saying this is SUPER suspicious, certainly not enough to nominate or anything, just making a quick note that Serimachi abstained pretty early and hasn't said much. Since there hasn't been too much to talk about recently.


----------



## Keldeo

Mewtini, where are you at on Maile?

Interested to hear any other reads you get after reading up, kokorico!



Eifie said:


> Keldeo I'm masons with you _and_ a cop. Come on dude.


Forgive me for thinking we had the same role!


----------



## Keldeo

Otter, you didn’t like Seshas for saying we should lunch someone early, right? Is it just like all early mentions of voting that make you a bit suspicious, or are the reads more nuanced than I’m thinking of them?


----------



## Ottercopter

Yep! Day phases are so long... Although yeah, fair point, early voting for a lynching definitely felt more suspicious than early abstaining, which didn't really seem off to me until days later when I'm trying to find things to make note of that people haven't already said. 
Starting to think that's a worse habit than I initially thought it would be, heh.


----------



## Eifie

Yeah I'm so bored today haha. Can't really be bothered to read more posts. I hope exciting stuff happens tonight!


----------



## Keldeo

Ottercopter said:


> Yep! Day phases are so long... Although yeah, fair point, early voting for a lynching definitely felt more suspicious than early abstaining, which didn't really seem off to me until days later when I'm trying to find things to make note of that people haven't already said.
> Starting to think that's a worse habit than I initially thought it would be, heh.


Okay!

I’m interested in how you feel about Seshas and Rari given their thoughts on you earlier?

Are there any people you particularly trust right now?


----------



## Zori

I feel dead inside
I skimmed but I didn't really catch up

@:Keldeo Otter's reaction was in line with a Mafia thought process, and is probably less in line with Town thought process depending on meta stuff
I'd give them a ~50% mafia flip rate for now


----------



## Keldeo

Eifie said:


> Yeah I'm so bored today haha. Can't really be bothered to read more posts. I hope exciting stuff happens tonight!


Wanna flash wagon Boquise? I think my vote’s still on him.


----------



## Zori

Ottercopter said:


> Starting to think that's a worse habit than I initially thought it would be, heh.


maybe it just went over my head because im tired but what is this habit


----------



## mewtini

Ottercopter said:


> Not saying this is SUPER suspicious, certainly not enough to nominate or anything, just making a quick note that Serimachi abstained pretty early and hasn't said much. Since there hasn't been too much to talk about recently.


fair pull. i think they abstained early as a bit of an inactive because they might've gotten scared by some early gentle voting, but that's just my theory



Keldeo said:


> Mewtini, where are you at on Maile?


honestly pretty close to neutral, i put him below my other pure neutrals because i felt like (moreso than mf, who was the cusp-read i later commented i was unsure about post-kokorico's remarks) he started to veer towards "talking pretty frequently, but not saying much" for me. he participated in early flavorspec so i was chill with him then because he was pretty much in league with everyone else. he later went up in towniness for me, because he was receptive/open when neg explained away a lot of the confusion around seshas' role, so for a while i had neutral-good vibes.

i guess my main qualm nowadays is that idk how to read his post after VM's superpower claim:


Mawile said:


> I'm confused by how we know if VM is joking or not? Is it because his role seems overpowered in addition to having the universal backup, or did I miss something else?


because it was something that even otter, after not being involved in much discussion, realized pretty quickly (??? i think? that was a weird timeline honestly) and that given he's been keeping with a pattern of activity-punctuated-by-nontrivial-posts i was confused that he, one of the more cerebral? posters, was thrown off guard by/felt the need to investigate a claim that i thought was a really obvious shitpost. so maybe i'm paranoid, it just seemed off

ALSO, i totally forgot otter in making my list, and want to mention that she's between kokorico and mr. ultracool in the second tier haha


----------



## Eifie

Keldeo said:


> Wanna flash wagon Boquise? I think my vote’s still on him.


that would be pretty hilarious but I have a vague wondering if him not caring much about the game makes him more likely town

idfk


----------



## Ottercopter

Seshas said:


> maybe it just went over my head because im tired but what is this habit


Impulse posting things just because I haven't posted much or noticed much, but wanna contribute (Mewitti said something earlier about us both having a complex about being insightful enough for Mafia and that's pretty spot-on).

(Keldeo, thoughts on Rari and Seshas in progress, reviewing stuff now. Although I feel like this'll be hard to answer in a neutral-sounding way when they're both suspicious of me.)


----------



## Eifie

I hope @Mr. Ultracool posts some tropes again soon because I've seen him around liking stuff


----------



## Mawile

I had a migraine basically all day yesterday so now I have to catch up. :( Long (?) thought-containing post will be coming soon.


----------



## Boquise

Eifie said:


> @Boquise whenever we're on the phone and you ask what I'm up to and I say "haha totally nothing haha" the actual answer is "playing the mafia game that I can't talk to you about out of thread" so come play plzzzzz


hello tbh


----------



## Keldeo

It’s okay to not be insightful!! Post silly thoughts and stuff you haven’t thought too hard about! \o/

I like mewtini’s process in Mawile in #878.

Eifie, idk either lol but I was mainly thinking that him being around but not really talking to you much was like, adjacent to his play in Small Town Mafia? I skimmed everyone but you in that game so tell me if I’m wrong hehe.


----------



## Keldeo

And Here He Comes Now!


----------



## Eifie

Boquise said:


> hello tbh


hello spouse

there's lots of juicy content now, wow me!


----------



## kyeugh

i really want rnp/stryke/flora to exist more

how do you y’all get a read on mist btw?? i feel like every game i just see them saying they haven’t read much but will catch up later and they always get townread fsr

that said they always are actually town so maybe that’s cause for a town lean lol


----------



## Eifie

Keldeo said:


> It’s okay to not be insightful!! Post silly thoughts and stuff you haven’t thought too hard about! \o/


yeah I mean have you guys seen my posts :p


----------



## Boquise

Keldeo said:


> Wanna flash wagon Boquise? I think my vote’s still on him.


----------



## kyeugh

Eifie said:


> hello spouse


soft boq/eifie lovers claim eh


----------



## mewtini

kyeugh said:


> how do you y’all get a read on mist btw?? i feel like every game i just see them saying they haven’t read much but will catch up later and they always get townread fsr


fwiw this literally is exactly my read, my ranking of them was based off of that and eifie's (possible cover) mechclear


----------



## mewtini

Eifie said:


> yeah I mean have you guys seen my posts :p


yes. they make me insecure


----------



## Boquise

farfetch'd, the chicken and eifie seem town to me tbh


look
it was ages ago where i played at a new place and had to balance between being serious or go full meme. It is a hard balance to find smh and i am used to go by prior knowledge of peeps to do my reads. I am reading tho tbh


----------



## Boquise

Eifie said:


> hello spouse
> 
> there's lots of juicy content now, wow me!


sup spouse is the juice apples or oranges tbh


----------



## mewtini

Boquise said:


> farfetch'd, the chicken


cute names for your pet chickens tbh


----------



## Eifie

Boquise said:


> farfetch'd, the chicken and eifie seem town to me tbh
> 
> 
> look
> it was ages ago where i played at a new place and had to balance between being serious or go full meme. It is a hard balance to find smh and i am used to go by prior knowledge of peeps to do my reads. I am reading tho tbh


wow! I'm town!

tell me more.


----------



## Boquise

Eifie said:


> wow! I'm town!
> 
> tell me more.


no tbh


----------



## kyeugh

hey keldeo have you given a read on eif yet aside from the mason thing? also how do you feel about mist bc now i’m thinking about this


----------



## kyeugh

mewtini said:


> cute names for your pet chickens tbh


i am in fact farfetch’d, the chicken


----------



## Eifie

Boquise said:


> no tbh


are you avoiding me again

do I have to go full eif on you


----------



## Boquise

That was the fastest like I have ever seen.

Like, Farfetch'd. You liked that post probably 0,001 seconds after I posted it. Mad respects my dude. You are 100% town forever to me now tbh


----------



## kyeugh

i’m simply sitting here hitting refresh


----------



## Boquise

Eifie said:


> are you avoiding me again
> 
> do I have to go full eif on you


----------



## Boquise

kyeugh said:


> i’m simply sitting here hitting refresh


whats your game take


----------



## Keldeo

kyeugh said:


> hey keldeo have you given a read on eif yet aside from the mason thing? also how do you feel about mist bc now i’m thinking about this


I mean, she’s my mason so I’m biased, but even if she weren’t I think I would lock her town at this point. She’s extremely inside her town meta and outside her mafia meta in her memes and attitude and patterns of activity. I can explain in more detail if needed.

I have no real read on Mist. Kinda like them locking Seshas town early. Kiiinda like them not explaining stuff even if I wish they would, they don’t seem like preoccupied with seeming towny or how people are reading them, but they’re being shielded by Eif and probably part of it stems from time issues so that doesn’t really hold. Don’t like that they’re not here more I guess.


----------



## Keldeo

Like worst case for Eif imo is she’s 3p with a fun role/fakeclaim that she can spin as towny.


----------



## Boquise

Okay I am going to listen to some dwarf metal and play a little more seriously tbh


----------



## kyeugh

Boquise said:


> whats your game take


 i’m mostly thinking about how it feels like so much has happened, stuff that felt vaguely serious/important at the time, and yet i still have no strong feelings about anyone except for that i’m townreading people who i always townread in every game even when they’re wolves


----------



## Eifie

with my full tmi that Mist is my n0 green, I will say that I think that as mafia he would have "better" (as in, less prompting of a SIGHHHH from me) reads on me and Keldeo


----------



## Boquise

The one thing that pauses me on you, Eifie, is that this is your home court and not MU. I play radically differently on my home community versus MU. Tho you are still like light years from your scum game and iirc you have told me that people here usually suspect you just because you are a threat/helpful with stuff. I might be rambling and misremembering.


----------



## mewtini

Keldeo said:


> Kinda like them locking Seshas town early.


i did wanna mention earlier that i wish they were more of a presence but they've seemed pretty much the mirror opposite of how i'd see a malevolent inactive player; the like, one time that mist has genuinely shown up it was to vouch for someone who we have no other real reasons to distrust


----------



## Keldeo

Eifie said:


> with my full tmi that Mist is my n0 green, I will say that I think that as mafia he would have "better" (as in, less prompting of a SIGHHHH from me) reads on me and Keldeo


I don’t remember them having reads on us, can you explain?


----------



## Boquise

kyeugh said:


> i’m mostly thinking about how it feels like so much has happened, stuff that felt vaguely serious/important at the time, and yet i still have no strong feelings about anyone except for that i’m townreading people who i always townread in every game even when they’re wolves


That is very vague. I like it! Thank you Farfetch'd, the chicken, for your assistance tbh


----------



## Eifie

Boquise said:


> The one thing that pauses me on you, Eifie, is that this is your home court and not MU. I play radically differently on my home community versus MU. Tho you are still like light years from your scum game and iirc you have told me that people here usually suspect you just because you are a threat/helpful with stuff. I might be rambling and misremembering.


I think I'm playing a lot like my MU town game rn, do you disagree? I also think this is a pretty good analogue to a low-to-moderate activity MU game

the phrase you're probably looking for is "fear read" and I suspect that's why mewt has me so low on her list and Herbe refuses to actually townread me >:( I'm kinda just gritting my teeth and dealing with it because they have no way of knowing that in the past year I've become literally incapable of making game-related posts as mafia


----------



## Eifie

Keldeo said:


> I don’t remember them having reads on us, can you explain?


he has "half a scumread" on you and a null-read on me which he always insists on doing in games where I'm extremely obvious town and he should know that smfh

remember the hydra game I played with boq where I posted my ass off and also caught a mafia in literally 88 posts? he still refused to call me town and I was so annoyed smh

meanwhile in our hydra game 1 he pulled out a tmi town read on you/us very early on


----------



## Negrek

I've been paying attention, but won't have time to make a substantial post at all today, unfortunately. There's no one particularly standing out to me as obvious mafia, and neither is anybody going after anyone I feel strongly to be innocent, either, so I don't have anything pressing to add.

However, since we're starting to come up pretty hard against the end of the day, I think we probably want to figure out where we're going before we completely run out of time to discuss. It doesn't look like anyone has any very strong feelings about targets, so are we looking at abstain? Lynch inactive? Or is there anyone that people do feel like they'd be ready to lynch based on actually thinking they're mafia?

I'm not terribly fond of abstaining myself, and am pretty eh about lynching inactive, but at this point I don't feel like I have any strong mafia targets, so I guess I'm leaning most towards the latter.


----------



## mewtini

Eifie said:


> low-to-moderate activity


oh dear god


Eifie said:


> I suspect that's why mewt has me so low on her list


oh for posterity this is actually not the case lol. i just haven't townLocked you but i kind of have reasons that i'm strongly townreading you; there's no one in my probable-town who's on the cusp of not being in that list as of now.


----------



## Mr. Ultracool

Eifie said:


> I hope @Mr. Ultracool posts some tropes again soon because I've seen him around liking stuff
> 
> 
> 
> kyeugh said:
> 
> 
> 
> the day doesn’t end no matter what until the 13th,
> 
> 
> 
> I'm so used to 24- hour phases that I was fully expecting D1 to end 2 Days ago. After that didn't turn out to be the case yesterday, I was too confused to contribute much. Just how long are these things, anyways?
Click to expand...


----------



## kyeugh

Boquise said:


> That is very vague. I like it! Thank you Farfetch'd, the chicken, for your assistance tbh


my feelings are also vague tbf

i really don't have a good grasp on this game so far and i think i'm kind of having a hard time bc it's like... 50% tcod meta which is kind of weird for me.  with the invitationals on mu at least it was like 90% tcod with a handful of non-tcod folks and it was easier to compartmentalize, rn i feel like half the roster is playing a slightly different game from me


----------



## Boquise

Eifie said:


> I think I'm playing a lot like my MU town game rn, do you disagree? I also think this is a pretty good analogue to a low-to-moderate activity MU game
> 
> the phrase you're probably looking for is "fear read" and I suspect that's why mewt has me so low on her list and Herbe refuses to actually townread me >:( I'm kinda just gritting my teeth and dealing with it because they have no way of knowing that in the past year I've become literally incapable of making game-related posts as mafia


I don't disagree, but you also have more authority with your posts which changes the dynamic.


----------



## Eifie

it ends in 5.5 hours I think? Butterfree never stated phase lengths but from what we've seen I'm guessing it's either 72/48 or 72/72? I forgot how long n0 was


----------



## Eifie

Boquise said:


> I don't disagree, but you also have more authority with your posts which changes the dynamic.


that is true, I am Queen Eif.


----------



## Boquise

kyeugh said:


> my feelings are also vague tbf
> 
> i really don't have a good grasp on this game so far and i think i'm kind of having a hard time bc it's like... 50% tcod meta which is kind of weird for me.  with the invitationals on mu at least it was like 90% tcod with a handful of non-tcod folks and it was easier to compartmentalize, rn i feel like half the roster is playing a slightly different game from me


that is why I like it. I feel the exact same minus I have less knowledge than you currently. It is something I could jive with basically.
When you talk about the invitational, do you mean the one that wasnt that long ago? The one I played?


----------



## mewtini

Negrek said:


> However, since we're starting to come up pretty hard against the end of the day, I think we probably want to figure out where we're going before we completely run out of time to discuss. It doesn't look like anyone has any very strong feelings about targets, so are we looking at abstain? Lynch inactive? Or is there anyone that people do feel like they'd be ready to lynch based on actually thinking they're mafia?


i am currently in favor of lynching inactive, i have a few kind-of suspicions but i don't really know if anyone else shares them tbh


----------



## kyeugh

Boquise said:


> that is why I like it. I feel the exact same minus I have less knowledge than you currently. It is something I could jive with basically.
> When you talk about the invitational, do you mean the one that wasnt that long ago? The one I played?


yeah!  i'm qva


----------



## Boquise

Eifie said:


> that is true, I am Queen Eif.


of smolness tbh


----------



## kyeugh

mewtini said:


> i am currently in favor of lynching inactive, i have a few kind-of suspicions but i don't really know if anyone else shares them tbh


gib


----------



## Eifie

I'm in favour of lynching someone we won't be able to solve over not lynching at all, and this isn't like a mostly-vanilla game like I'm used to so I don't think every lynch has to be like super-useful and forcing people to take stances and stuff, you know? We should have a lot of cool role stuff going on in the night to help us out.


----------



## Eifie

Boquise said:


> of smolness tbh


*Boquise*


----------



## Boquise

kyeugh said:


> yeah!  i'm qva


oh! Makes sense then tbh
you seem more on the ball in this game than the invitational afaik? Like the first few posts I read of you felt like veteran town


----------



## Boquise

Eifie said:


> *Boquise*





http://imgur.com/av138yX


----------



## kyeugh

i think i feel a bit less outclassed in this game than i did in the invitational... is that mean to say

also i learned a lot from that game, both about playing and also about the people in it (many of whom are in this game)

come to think of it maybe i should be more suspicious of keldeo


----------



## Boquise

rari_teh said:


> I’m siding with Eifie here, Jack is definitely dead and not town-aligned. The indignant look says all – unless mafia can fuck around with the flavour text, that is. The lack of sign of violence can be explained by Psychic Powers, poisoning or pretty much any ninja trope.
> 
> My thoughts so far… Eifie and serimachi are likely town and I have my suspicions around one person whom I’ll abstain from naming. Talking about abstaining, I don’t think it’s prudent to lynch anyone with the tiny amount of info we currently have, so I’ll *abstain*. Also, if I’m a cop, n0 green on Ultracool.
> 
> 
> 
> Womp womp. Now if Negrek is mafia and lying about Jack’s role, guess who’s gonna be murdered by sunrise?
> 
> 
> 
> Tell me about it.


Why did you abstain from wanting to say who you were/are suspicious of?


----------



## Boquise

kyeugh said:


> i think i feel a bit less outclassed in this game than i did in the invitational... is that mean to say
> 
> also i learned a lot from that game, both about playing and also about the people in it (many of whom are in this game)
> 
> come to think of it maybe i should be more suspicious of keldeo


thats why i am not giving him a town read atm tbh
thing is, i feel like eifie would get Keldeo if he is scum and she is town. So yeah.


----------



## Eifie

Boquise said:


> thats why i am not giving him a town read atm tbh
> thing is, i feel like eifie would get Keldeo if he is scum and she is town. So yeah.


luckily we're masons and I don't have to bother because otherwise I definitely need more than one game day to read Keldeo properly


----------



## mewtini

kyeugh said:


> gib


ok my only genuinely sincere :|a vibe is still about ils. i'd be open to re-explaining if that's something anyone wants (now that i'm not snoozing-while-typing) but it's also not something i'm going to fight super hard for, because it's not like i have him scumlocked so much as i just feel weird every time i read back through

that being said, and correct me if i'm wrong, but i think it's probably more beneficial to lynch people who are only mostly-inactive instead of fully-inactive? which leads me to people like rnp, stryke, or flora. i mostly say this because i feel like an odie_pie, who's made literally no posts (as opposed to 2, or 3, or 4) is more likely to be ghosting the entire game rather than just ignoring thread because they're occupied with mafiachat and ~ Life ~, and i don't think there's any huge opportunity cost right now of lynching a mostly-inactive rather than a fully-inactive player.

between those three, i actually think (based on just online-ness, post frequency, and post timing) that rnp is who i currently like the least, since he's actually posted in some wide-ish distribution across the thread (in the 500s and in 802) and was online late last night, which reads more of possible awareness or being involved ingame than flora, who posted in the very beginning only to ghost the thread, or stryke, who issued a few joke posts (all in the 300s) and could have ghosted, because he wasn't online for a while between there (iirc like since the 400s). that being said i might change that because he just came online as i'm typing this lmao


----------



## kyeugh

hm yeah that's legit
i kind of like eif's (non-masonic) reasoning on him and i've liked his posting so i guess i'll keep him on my town pile for now


----------



## kyeugh

tbf i think it's likely that this is just a much bigger/more active game than some people bargained for and with that in mind i think only a handful of people ghosting out is actually fairly good
but yeah even so i think the people who aren't really posting ought to be the default lynches unless something else comes forward ig


----------



## mewtini

kyeugh said:


> tbf i think it's likely that this is just a much bigger/more active game than some people bargained for and with that in mind i think only a handful of people ghosting out is actually fairly good
> but yeah even so i think the people who aren't really posting ought to be the default lynches unless something else comes forward ig


i agree with the first sentence which is why i'm pointing to people who actually have been sort of keeping up, idk? like right now we all seem to be leaning towards an inactive lynch regardless, which seems better to me than abstaining, if that is the case and i'd rather go with lynching one of those three over total ghosts because i think that any involvement is much more indicative of even still playing the game than 0 involvement


----------



## Eifie

kyeugh said:


> tbf i think it's likely that this is just a much bigger/more active game than some people bargained for and with that in mind i think only a handful of people ghosting out is actually fairly good
> but yeah even so i think the people who aren't really posting ought to be the default lynches unless something else comes forward ig


mm it's hard to distinguish between town disinterest and mafia lurking so idk how indicative any of it is

the reason I prefer lynching the person who's probably never going to post is that there's probably no chance that they can do anything that will make us able to read them, while theoretically the people who exist but aren't posting could at some point start posting and we might be able to get some sort of read


----------



## kyeugh

wtf mewtini play mafia more
you are reading WAY more than me


----------



## kyeugh

Eifie said:


> mm it's hard to distinguish between town disinterest and mafia lurking so idk how indicative any of it is
> 
> the reason I prefer lynching the person who's probably never going to post is that there's probably no chance that they can do anything that will make us able to read them, while theoretically the people who exist but aren't posting could at some point start posting and we might be able to get some sort of read


this kind of makes sense but i guess i feel like lynching the guy that basically isn't in the game isn't THAT much different from just abstaining
i mean i guess the chance they'll flip scum is technically there but like...


----------



## Keldeo

kyeugh said:


> tbf i think it's likely that this is just a much bigger/more active game than some people bargained for and with that in mind i think only a handful of people ghosting out is actually fairly good


Yeah, I feel very hesitant in applying "low activity / reading but not posting / going after low-hanging fruit = scummy" reads to the people who aren't used to this type of activity.

On that note, I feel obligated to advertise the mafia championships! If you like this pace, rep TCoD this summer by playing a game with strangers from around the internet! :wowee:!


----------



## Eifie

kyeugh said:


> this kind of makes sense but i guess i feel like lynching the guy that basically isn't in the game isn't THAT much different from just abstaining
> i mean i guess the chance they'll flip scum is technically there but like...


yeah it's like basically "abstaining" because killing people who might actually post makes me sad

as I said before I am taking the coward's way out


----------



## kyeugh

Keldeo said:


> On that note, I feel obligated to advertise the mafia championships! If you like this pace, rep TCoD this summer by playing a game with strangers from around the internet! :wowee:!


is the pace actually like this?  i would have expected quite a lot worse


----------



## Boquise

lynching inactives is usually a great way for scum to win tbh


----------



## Eifie

kyeugh said:


> is the pace actually like this?  i would have expected quite a lot worse


it's like double this


----------



## mewtini

Eifie said:


> the reason I prefer lynching the person who's probably never going to post is that there's probably no chance that they can do anything that will make us able to read them, while theoretically the people who exist but aren't posting could at some point start posting and we might be able to get some sort of read


i still kinda disagree just because i don't think we lose literally anything if we lynch someone who's posted a few times (and posted absolutely nothing beyond "wow this is moving fast") over odie_pie, who is afaik the only remaining person who is completely inactive. 

we know that there are at least a few ghosts given how insane this game is (i'm kind of seeing vm as a de facto one, it's just that he began ghosting later into the game). i think it's far less useful to lynch ghosts - who aren't helpful, and who wouldn't be contributing to mafiachat since i expect at least one person is totally just vanishing - than it is to lynch people who are BOTH unhelpful and actually just engaged enough that it could be scumlurk


----------



## Boquise

IndigoEmmy's damage control after the role reveal is pretty interesting. I read it as she has no one in private coaching her. Town or indie. Ez tbh


----------



## Eifie

Boquise said:


> lynching inactives is usually a great way for scum to win tbh


do you have a good lynch candidate in mind tbh

because basically everyone who is very actively posting is in my town pile rn


----------



## kyeugh

eh i feel like inactive scum is kind of a thing more than usual on tcod but i might be wrong about that
what happens if we run out of actives!?


----------



## mewtini

Eifie said:


> yeah it's like basically "abstaining" because killing people who might actually post makes me sad
> 
> as I said before I am taking the coward's way out


like atm i really am against lynching any actives but i'm still so strongly in favor of ils due to what i said earlier, and that i think he's a VERY slightly less inactive example of an rnp player. i think it's a smarter bet than flora or odie


----------



## kyeugh

mewtini said:


> i still kinda disagree just because i don't think we lose literally anything if we lynch someone who's posted a few times (and posted absolutely nothing beyond "wow this is moving fast") over odie_pie, who is afaik the only remaining person who is completely inactive.
> 
> we know that there are at least a few ghosts given how insane this game is (i'm kind of seeing vm as a de facto one, it's just that he began ghosting later into the game). i think it's far less useful to lynch ghosts - who aren't helpful, and who wouldn't be contributing to mafiachat since i expect at least one person is totally just vanishing - than it is to lynch people who are BOTH unhelpful and actually just engaged enough that it could be scumlurk


do you have anyone in mind that meets these requirements aside from ils
i don't... _hate_ an ils lynch i guess but meh


----------



## Boquise

Eifie said:


> do you have a good lynch candidate in mind tbh
> 
> because basically everyone who is very actively posting is in my town pile rn


no tbh
general rule of thumb is that one very active individual should be scum tho.

I am reading atm tbh


----------



## mewtini

mewtini said:


> like atm i really am against lynching any actives but i'm still so strongly in favor of ils due to what i said earlier, and that i think he's a VERY slightly less inactive example of an rnp player. i think it's a smarter bet than flora or odie


and the word 'strongly' here is very relative, i just mean over abstaining, which i don't feel is worthwhile? but i might be wrong since this is still my first game


----------



## Eifie

I'm basically cool lynching anyone I don't have in my town pile it's just that telling them "you don't get to be part of the shenanigans of the inaugural tcodf mafia revival game" makes me sad :'(


----------



## Keldeo

kyeugh said:


> is the pace actually like this?  i would have expected quite a lot worse


It's a bit worse - my game last year and Butterfree's game two years ago both had about 1200 posts in a (time-wise) shorter d1 with fewer players. There is a somewhat stricter post restriction this year, but I'm not sure how much that'll help.


----------



## mewtini

kyeugh said:


> do you have anyone in mind that meets these requirements aside from ils
> i don't... _hate_ an ils lynch i guess but meh


rnp is second. it's not really that i'm anti-ils in particular, it's just that i'm wary of the lurker pattern he and rnp both have, and they haven't helped town (or, tbf, anyone) much yet - whether due to inactivity or other reasons


----------



## Boquise

i am the new kid on the block with zero experience with how things are going around here nor do i have any idea of what usually makes anyone scum or town on this site, like what the usual scum/town mentality is, so I will most likely not vote at all today unless I get a classic scum read.


----------



## Stryke

mewtini said:


> ok my only genuinely sincere :|a vibe is still about ils. i'd be open to re-explaining if that's something anyone wants (now that i'm not snoozing-while-typing) but it's also not something i'm going to fight super hard for, because it's not like i have him scumlocked so much as i just feel weird every time i read back through
> 
> that being said, and correct me if i'm wrong, but i think it's probably more beneficial to lynch people who are only mostly-inactive instead of fully-inactive? which leads me to people like rnp, stryke, or flora. i mostly say this because i feel like an odie_pie, who's made literally no posts (as opposed to 2, or 3, or 4) is more likely to be ghosting the entire game rather than just ignoring thread because they're occupied with mafiachat and ~ Life ~, and i don't think there's any huge opportunity cost right now of lynching a mostly-inactive rather than a fully-inactive player.
> 
> between those three, i actually think (based on just online-ness, post frequency, and post timing) that rnp is who i currently like the least, since he's actually posted in some wide-ish distribution across the thread (in the 500s and in 802) and was online late last night, which reads more of possible awareness or being involved ingame than flora, who posted in the very beginning only to ghost the thread, or stryke, who issued a few joke posts (all in the 300s) and could have ghosted, because he wasn't online for a while between there (iirc like since the 400s). that being said i might change that because he just came online as i'm typing this lmao


I actually have this open in a tab on my phone and I am just constantly refreshing it every 15 minutes or so or whenever I get the chance to. I'm pretty much all caught up on what you guys are saying most of the time, I just don't have anything to say myself because I usually never do; I'm way more of a casual player. If you really want my thoughts, I'm down with lynching Odie_Pie-- they haven't been active on the site at all since signups, and with the night ending soon, I don't see that changing anytime between now and then. That's just my two cents though; I'm open to ideas.


----------



## Boquise

kyeugh said:


> is the pace actually like this?  i would have expected quite a lot worse


when i played in the finals, m plus 7 my hero posted like 300-500 times or something on D1. I dont remember the number.


----------



## kyeugh

mewtini said:


> and the word 'strongly' here is very relative, i just mean over abstaining, which i don't feel is worthwhile? but i might be wrong since this is still my first game


nah this is valid tbh, i think lynching actives > lynching inactives > abstaining is pretty commonly accepted practice
it's just... lynching ANY active isn't necessarily better than lynching inactives i guess, like i don't think voting townleans just bc they're active is good and at this point it seems like a lot of people are townleaning basically everyone that's active


----------



## mewtini

kyeugh said:


> do you have anyone in mind that meets these requirements aside from ils
> i don't... _hate_ an ils lynch i guess but meh


again i kinda don't care if it's specifically ils i just feel somewhat strongly that any of the light posters are more likely to be lurkers. it doesn't make sense to me that mafia would be the one guy who has never said anything; wouldn't someone in mafiachat have poked him to talk here at least once?

can you explain to me what your 'meh' emotion is?


----------



## Boquise

Eifie said:


> I'm basically cool lynching anyone I don't have in my town pile it's just that telling them "you don't get to be part of the shenanigans of the inaugural tcodf mafia revival game" makes me sad :'(


lets no lynch and then scum should honour that with abstaining from their kill tbh


----------



## mewtini

mewtini said:


> can you explain to me what your 'meh' emotion is?


posted this as you replied, sorry. And Now I Wait 12 Seconds Before Posting, thanks xenforo


----------



## Eifie

Boquise said:


> lets no lynch and then scum should honour that with abstaining from their kill tbh


no I want to die


----------



## Keldeo

Hey Stryke! Do you have any thoughts about any of the more active players?

mewtini, Odie hasn't been on the forums so I doubt the mafia could reach them anyway. The fact that there isn't much resistance to their lynch is maybe like, a sliver towny but /shrug. 

Eifie, how do you feel about Boq emphasizing his newness to the site / the fact that this is different from sites on which he's played before? I don't know what to think about it. Is it something he thinks regardless of alignment?


----------



## mewtini

kyeugh said:


> it's just... lynching ANY active


do you class ils as an active? full disclosure that i just don't really townlean him at this point in time so maybe that's extra-why i prefer him over rnp


----------



## mewtini

Keldeo said:


> mewtini, Odie hasn't been on the forums so I doubt the mafia could reach them anyway. The fact that there isn't much resistance to their lynch is maybe like, a sliver towny but /shrug.


just to be clear, this is what i've been saying 100% for my last several posts


----------



## Eifie

Keldeo said:


> Eifie, how do you feel about Boq emphasizing his newness to the site / the fact that this is different from sites on which he's played before? I don't know what to think about it. Is it something he thinks regardless of alignment?


well, sort of, but I think it's mostly in regards to stuff like etiquette.

I'm honestly just too done with this day phase to be absorbing much at this point. how do you play those 3-week day phase games Keldeo wtf


----------



## Boquise

Eifie said:


> no I want to die


i will take you to f3 this game tbh


----------



## mewtini

kyeugh said:


> wtf mewtini play mafia more
> you are reading WAY more than me


i wanted to play more!! i was just SCARED

tbh the cynic in me is wondering if this inactivity/lurker convo is going to end up acting as a honeypot, seeing as there's probably/def some mafiosx who's active and maybe has to do damage control and warn mafiachat if it ends up being the case that i'm not far off w my guesses


----------



## kyeugh

mewtini said:


> can you explain to me what your 'meh' emotion is?


i just don't really feel that strongly about it but tbh my eyes kind of glazed over on your post bc i just have not really been coping well with posts that are longer than two lines in this game so far.  will give it a better read later


mewtini said:


> do you class ils as an active? full disclosure that i just don't really townlean him at this point in time so maybe that's extra-why i prefer him over rnp


ehh not really.  mostly i was just saying that for your benefit since it seems like you're sort of unsure whether the thing you're saying is good or not ("i'm new so maybe not")


----------



## mewtini

mewtini said:


> warn mafiachat


then again it would still be sus if everyone poured in all at once lol. so i doubt they would be like Guys, Go To Thread Now! but i wonder


----------



## Stryke

Keldeo said:


> Hey Stryke! Do you have any thoughts about any of the more active players?


Not really. If you give me more time I could probably come up with an in-depth analysis of all the active players, but I'm mostly in the same boat as you guys, with no one particularly standing out as suspicious to me.


----------



## Boquise

Panini said:


> oof I'd say generally say no because I think basically you're completing a trade with mafia wherein you just hand them all the strong town roles on a platter and let them have at thee and all the mafia have to do is come up with some good fake claims which they can work out together in their private chat
> 
> Even in like really really big games I'd say the best times to claim are pretty much just what Keldeo said previously - if you have relevant info or if you're like absolutely about to die


Hi Panini!
Out of all the posts that had happened between this and your last one, why was this particular the one which you wanted to quote and address?


Mr. Ultracool said:


> Do you suggest that we should claim? I'd probably be capable of pulling that off without harming town too much, too...


----------



## Eifie

mewtini said:


> then again it would still be sus if everyone poured in all at once lol. so i doubt they would be like Guys, Go To Thread Now! but i wonder


that was basically what I wondered might be happening with that VM claim thing

something like, a mafia member sees it, posts it in mafia chat

people are like "huh what" and also like "oh yeah I should probably be posting in thread. this is an easy thing to reply to"

or something


----------



## Boquise

oh it was a question towards you.

Nevermind me :wowee:


----------



## Boquise

What's VM?


----------



## qenya

Boquise said:


> What's VM?


Vipera Magnifica, the dude who roleclaimed channeler


----------



## Eifie

Vipera Magnifica said:


> jeeeeesus my brain cannot keep up with this thread, most of our games didn't have half as many posts as this _in their entirety_. I think social media has puréed my brain and made it where I don't have the attention span for this kind of thing anymore.
> 
> I guess I won't mind if i do get offed right away. In fact, oh yeah, I forgot to mention another part of my role: I learn the name of all the mafia members on N1, and I also have unlimited daytime vigilante kills. Would be a real shame if something were to happen to me tonight~


@Boquise: VM made this joke claim and like, a few hours (and some number of posts) after he made it multiple people came into the thread at once taking it seriously and commenting on it


----------



## mewtini

kyeugh said:


> i just don't really feel that strongly about it but tbh my eyes kind of glazed over on your post bc i just have not really been coping well with posts that are longer than two lines in this game so far.  will give it a better read later






kyeugh said:


> ehh not really.  mostly i was just saying that for your benefit since it seems like you're sort of unsure whether the thing you're saying is good or not ("i'm new so maybe not")


this is exactly my fear lol. also i'm kinda scared of being seen as inconsistent for playing a bit more aggressively recently given how, like, mediatory i was for so much of the thread


----------



## Keldeo

Eifie said:


> @Boquise: VM made this joke claim and like, a few hours (and some number of posts) after he made it multiple people came into the thread at once taking it seriously and commenting on it


It wasn't really at once, it was ILS the next morning and Otter like 10 minutes after that, supposedly spurred by ILS's post


----------



## Boquise

kokorico said:


> Vipera Magnifica, the dude who roleclaimed channeler


thanks tbh


----------



## Eifie

mewtini said:


> this is exactly my fear lol. also i'm kinda scared of being seen as inconsistent for playing a bit more aggressively recently given how, like, mediatory i was for so much of the thread


inconsistency can be a villagery trait and villagers should just post whatever the hell they want to post without worrying about how it's seen imo

(much easier said than done)


----------



## Boquise

Eifie said:


> @Boquise: VM made this joke claim and like, a few hours (and some number of posts) after he made it multiple people came into the thread at once taking it seriously and commenting on it


oh cool tbh


----------



## Eifie

Keldeo said:


> It wasn't really at once, it was ILS the next morning and Otter like 10 minutes after that, supposedly spurred by ILS's post


I meant multiple people came in at around the same time, a few hours later.


----------



## Keldeo

Eifie said:


> inconsistency can be a villagery trait and villagers should just post whatever the hell they want to post without worrying about how it's seen imo
> 
> (much easier said than done)


I feel like mewtini has been somewhat implicitly self-conscious for the whole game, and I'm partially townreading her for that seeming genuine :wowee:


----------



## Keldeo

Stryke feels pretty similar to Resistance tbh.

lol cross-game type reads, lol two post reads, etc.


----------



## Boquise

rari_teh said:


> Or we vote on RedneckPhoenix, who didn’t pop in here at all yet has been active on the forums on other threads


Are reads like these legal here?


----------



## Boquise

Keldeo said:


> Eifie, how do you feel about Boq emphasizing his newness to the site / the fact that this is different from sites on which he's played before? I don't know what to think about it. Is it something he thinks regardless of alignment?


Is there something that bothers you with that tbh?


----------



## mewtini

Boquise said:


> Are reads like these legal here?


someone else might know better but i've thought it worked (in moderation) to indicate lurking over inactivity, esp when the react functions are so easily usable


----------



## Eifie

Boquise said:


> Are reads like these legal here?


ah, the good old days, when mods were able to see even people who had made themselves invisible in the "people who have viewed this thread" list to tell us who's been viewing the thread but not posting


----------



## Keldeo

The element of incorporating out-of-game-thread information into that read is not explicitly banned but is discouraged, I think?



Boquise said:


> Is there something that bothers you with that tbh?


You've brought it up a couple times and it feels like it could be an excuse for being somewhat "off" for people who know your town game. It also feels like it could be a genuine thought from either alignment, so I didn't really know what to make of it and wanted Eifie's take. I won't bug you about it since you're catching up.


----------



## Boquise

mewtini said:


> someone else might know better but i've thought it worked (in moderation) to indicate lurking over inactivity, esp when the react functions are so easily usable


sounds like when eifie made reads on me in a mu game based on my activity on discord tbh


----------



## Eifie

Boquise said:


> sounds like when eifie made reads on me in a mu game based on my activity on discord tbh


wasn't that a game I wasn't even in


----------



## Boquise

Keldeo said:


> The element of incorporating out-of-game-thread information into that read is not explicitly banned but is discouraged, I think?
> 
> 
> You've brought it up a couple times and it feels like it could be an excuse for being somewhat "off" for people who know your town game. It also feels like it could be a genuine thought from either alignment, so I didn't really know what to make of it and wanted Eifie's take. I won't bug you about it since you're catching up.


eh it is pretty difficult to be in an environment that is unknown to you. So yeah, it is an excuse/reason for why I am off and struggling making reads tbh


----------



## Boquise

Eifie said:


> wasn't that a game I wasn't even in


sure was tbh!


----------



## mewtini

@.keldeo i don't know if you've spoken to this or not (i don't think you have) but do you have any thoughts surrounding an eventual lynch target? you talked to me about odie but brought up the exact reason that i think lynching them is a waste over literally anyone else


----------



## Eifie

Boquise said:


> sure was tbh!


smh smearing my reputation by leaving out the details


----------



## mewtini

mewtini said:


> @.keldeo i don't know if you've spoken to this or not (i don't think you have) but do you have any thoughts surrounding an eventual lynch target? you talked to me about odie but brought up the exact reason that i think lynching them is a waste over literally anyone else


and rn we're like 12hrs away from the deadline :(


----------



## Eifie

Eifie said:


> smh smearing my reputation by leaving out the details


I'm glad this was post #1000 but I wish it had included a woweesprite


----------



## Eifie

mewtini said:


> and rn we're like 12hrs away from the deadline :(


I think it's actually 4.5 hours!


----------



## Boquise

Eifie said:


> smh smearing my reputation by leaving out the details


----------



## mewtini

Eifie said:


> I think it's actually 4.5 hours!


ok. imagine not knowing timezones tbh. i repeat my prior question but w/50% more desperation now


----------



## Stryke

Keldeo said:


> Stryke feels pretty similar to Resistance tbh.
> 
> lol cross-game type reads, lol two post reads, etc.


Don't know what this means but I hope it's good!


----------



## Boquise

rari_teh said:


> Sorry for asking what’s probably a highly stupid question, but what on Earth is a VT?


Dumb read of me maybe, but imo rari's posts have been very game related and analytical, aka looking like they know their shit. So this question kinda caught me off guard. I guess some would see it as faking a dumb tell but meh. I feel like they'd ask scum chat this instead of asking it here, especially if they are AS new at the game as it looks like here. So town.

Impressive posts with that in mind tbh


----------



## Eifie

I keep struggling with what I think about ILS because first I thought he was pretty shady with showing up to answer the VM claim thing that had happened a few hours prior and not posting about anything else, and then Seshas made that post that sounded so smart and intelligent and I was like "god maybe he's just town", and now mewt is talking about him again and I'm like "what if I should listen to my initial feelings instead", and the result is that if I vote for him and he flips town I'm going to be like "SEE you absolute FOOL why didn't you just listen to Seshas and the totally cool and smart and intelligent-sounding post" but if he flips mafia I can be like "bbt goat" so now i'm torn


----------



## Keldeo

Haha, sorry, Stryke! It means I liked your last post before that because you seemed similar enough to the Resistance game where you were just Resistance/innocent. But I'm not sure because obviously this is mafia and that's Resistance, and you haven't posted that much.



mewtini said:


> @.keldeo i don't know if you've spoken to this or not (i don't think you have) but do you have any thoughts surrounding an eventual lynch target? you talked to me about odie but brought up the exact reason that i think lynching them is a waste over literally anyone else


Ehh. I don't think lynching *Odie_pie* would be a waste - I don't really have leads, not super swayed by your cases on like ILS/RNP but I guess I wouldn't hate lynching them either, outside of "they are actually here and I don't want to kill anyone who is actually here on the first day of the forum revival mafia, gdi." I think I would be okay with any lynch outside like... Eifie's town piles from the 600s plus like Boq and MF? maybe?


----------



## Eifie

thank you Keldeo for making me feel not totally ridiculous and overly-emotional about people's feelings in a game about stringing people up and killing them despite their protests


----------



## Keldeo

Boquise said:


> Dumb read of me maybe, but imo rari's posts have been very game related and analytical, aka looking like they know their shit. So this question kinda caught me off guard. I guess some would see it as faking a dumb tell but meh. I feel like they'd ask scum chat this instead of asking it here, especially if they are AS new at the game as it looks like here. So town.
> 
> Impressive posts with that in mind tbh


Yeah, I was wondering how much mafia Rari has watched before, since they came up with, for example, the infiltrator idea out of nothing? Because they said this is their first game they've played, I agree that I don't think asking about "VT" was, like, a fake dumbtell.


----------



## Eifie

Keldeo said:


> Yeah, I was wondering how much mafia Rari has watched before, since they came up with, for example, the infiltrator idea out of nothing? Because they said this is their first game they've played, I agree that I don't think asking about "VT" was, like, a fake dumbtell.


unless I'm mixing them up with someone else, I asked them and they said they played on some other pokemon forum for like a year and also play on reddit


----------



## Keldeo

Mr. Ultracool said that, Eif.


Eifie said:


> thank you Keldeo for making me feel not totally ridiculous and overly-emotional about people's feelings in a game about stringing people up and killing them despite their protests


Haha, I mean, I'm voting Odie fully expecting them to flip town like 70% of the time and mafia like 30% of the time (~= random chance.) I won't be overly surprised if they flip town or mafia, but I don't think it's a huge loss right now if they are town and just haven't seen the game thread, and I'm ~reluctant to vote elsewhere.


----------



## mewtini

Eifie said:


> unless I'm mixing them up with someone else, I asked them and they said they played on some other pokemon forum for like a year and also play on reddit


iirc this is rari's first game. at least that's what i've been basing my thoughts off of


----------



## Boquise

I liek Squirtles said:


> Uhhh holy shit
> 
> This is some truly wild stuff,, which means the mafia must have some wilder stuff and now I really don't know what to expect from roles in this game lmao


this is a pop-in


----------



## mewtini

Keldeo said:


> Yeah, I was wondering how much mafia Rari has watched before, since they came up with, for example, the infiltrator idea out of nothing? Because they said this is their first game they've played, I agree that I don't think asking about "VT" was, like, a fake dumbtell.


idk i think if you look up lists of niche mafia roles infiltrator could've easily come up in that search. i had no clue what vt meant either


----------



## Eifie

oh.


----------



## mewtini

Boquise said:


> this is a pop-in


god thank you


----------



## Keldeo

On the topic of Ultracool, Eifie, I don't know what to make of him not feeling as comfortable with contributing when the phase turned out to be longer than he thought?

But I'm used to different phase lengths so idk maybe I'm just projecting comfort?


----------



## Boquise

Ottercopter said:


> That's a pretty strong claim. How would people feel about abstaining for today and having you kill whoever we mighta voted for (like that inactive person Eifie mentioned) to test it? I guess it wouldn't technically have to be this specific day phase, just a general idea.





Ottercopter said:


> Or is this sarcastic and I'm just really bad at discerning tone...?





Ottercopter said:


> ...Yeah, ignore me, I'm not thinking straight. I took "names" to mean like tropes or something, but even that would be quite a bit, huh?





Ottercopter said:


> It was something I'd initially waved off, but when I saw ILS's comment, I thought about it a bit more and wondered if maybe I'd been wrong to do that is all.


----------



## Eifie

Keldeo said:


> On the topic of Ultracool, Eifie, I don't know what to make of him not feeling as comfortable with contributing when the phase turned out to be longer than he thought?
> 
> But I'm used to different phase lengths so idk maybe I'm just projecting comfort?


I dunno see what I said earlier about basically being saturated with information

maybe ask me on d2

I'm in the process of shutting down and reverting to shitposts. send help


----------



## Boquise

Seshas said:


> Squirtle's first reaction to Vipera's claim was to speculate about what roles the mafia would have. Since mafia would know what roles the mafia would have, Squirtle is likely town unless he made this post intentionally to give this reaction.
> If Squirtle legitimately believed Vipera's claim, it's sort of hard to believe they were so intentional on the other front.


This is a good point that I did not consider. I just find it weird that Squirtle popped in to react to that and did not stay afterwards


----------



## Eifie

boq re-enacting eif's internal struggle live 1080p 2020 colourized


----------



## Boquise

Ottercopter said:


> Wondering about roles doesn't seem /that/ farfetched to me. Nobody's gonna claim to know about what other people's/alignments' roles, especially on just day 1. Just because they stuck "mafia" in front doesn't make him any more or less suspicious to me.
> Aaaand I don't really have any further thoughts because they got lost between reading all 34 pages of thread. I'll try going back and keeping notes from here on. '-'


this reads as damage control to me tbh


----------



## mewtini

going to genuinely post about this/recap in a second, sorry if i end up repeating myself but


----------



## Panini

Rip I thought deadline was midnight on the 13th and not midnight on the 12th so was accounting on another full day to get my stuff sorted
Sorry for not being around I've just had a fair bit to do and been mobile only for the past day and a half
I got to page 20 something?? Before turning in for the night, I'll try to quick read the rest and come up with some more composed thoughts shortly


----------



## Eifie

it's Panini!!!


----------



## Boquise

The oddest thing with it all is that that role claim is obviously a joke. There is zero balance there and would just make the game unfun for scum regardless. Any reaction that isn't:
 /ignore, ,  or   is highly suspect and feels unreal tbh.


----------



## kyeugh

tell me who to vote for tbh i really do not know
i feel like odie is kind of a last resort though


----------



## kyeugh

Boquise said:


> The oddest thing with it all is that that role claim is obviously a joke. There is zero balance there and would just make the game unfun for scum regardless. Any reaction that isn't:
> /ignore, View attachment 370, View attachment 371 or View attachment 372  is highly suspect and feels unreal tbh.


i really agree with this but then like the fact that it happened twice... idk


----------



## mewtini

Boquise said:


> The oddest thing with it all is that that role claim is obviously a joke. There is zero balance there and would just make the game unfun for scum regardless. Any reaction that isn't:
> /ignore, View attachment 370, View attachment 371 or View attachment 372  is highly suspect and feels unreal tbh.


he was joking


----------



## mewtini

mewtini said:


> he was joking


oh tbh i didn't click on links hold up


----------



## mewtini

nevermind it turns out i just hit reply, and didn't realize the images came thru as links on my end because i'm an idiot. agree with boquise


----------



## Keldeo

Boquise said:


> this reads as damage control to me tbh


I guess it's just me but I still don't have like, a strong opinion on those Otter posts.

You're saying this is like, ILS v/otter w and otter trying to tamp down on the derpclear? I could see it - I actually think that if wolf/wolf otter/ILS, maybe she latches onto Seshas's idea more instead of shrugging and leaving herself neutral on ILS.

I have to go. Please hold otter to posting the thoughts about rari and Seshas I asked her for.


----------



## Eifie

kyeugh said:


> i really agree with this but then like the fact that it happened twice... idk


also kind of with Mawile, who was like "are we sure it's a joke? how do we know?" or something


----------



## Mawile

Opinions/thoughts/brain garbage, in a completely unsorted fashion (I doubt any of this is Actually Insightful):

Keldeo posts a lot and I like how he helps to get more information out of people in a way that doesn't feel overly aggressive.
Eifie claims both mason and cop, which I assume means that she was recruited into the masons N0?
VM confused me with his joke post because I immediately thought back to whoever it was in the last TVTropes Mafia that claimed that one really complicated role about needing to get the Big Bad lynched or whatever and didn't want to deal with a headache like that again.
I think ILS's utter confusion post and Ottercopter's whole taking it seriously thing a page later also threw me off somewhat and made me think it was real, and I got even more confused.
And then people helpfully outright told me that it was a joke, so thank you

kyeugh felt somewhat aggressive at times? I might just not be used to people using votes as a way to pressure people into explaining themselves, though.
rari_teh seems reluctant/afraid of giving opinions and feelings now, and I don't know if this is because of people viewing them as suspicious or for some other reasons.
Herbe seems to have primarily given a thorough opinion about mewtini and not really many other people? He briefly mentioned positive opinions about Seshas and Keldeo too, but that's about it, from what I remember seeing.
mewtini posts a lot and seems to have consistently useful/insightful posts instead of just a whole lot of memes. (Not that memes are bad, but useful posts are always nice.) I like seeing her posts.
Seshas seems like a legitimate MI if we're going by the basis of his clue being weird like the Genre Savvy one in the last game. Felt a little weird to divulge that information early, but it felt like he was using it for genuine speculation about the mafia potentially doctoring flavor text (?) really early on.
IndigoEmmy seems like a legitimate MI because of her general roleplaying. Boquise mentioned that it seems like "she has no one in private coaching her", and I feel inclined to agree with this.
I can't think of thoughts about other people right now, but I think I got most of the active people??
I don't have any reads on people so everyone is just in an amorphous blob of "probably town".


I have so many tabs open please help me
My head hurts and I want to lay down
tl;dr I wrote all this up and then realized that I don't have any outright suspicions on people, so everyone is just "probably town" in my head. Also everyone kept posting in the like half hour it took me to write this up :(


----------



## Panini

Boquise said:


> Hi Panini!
> Out of all the posts that had happened between this and your last one, why was this particular the one which you wanted to quote and address?


Yo boq!
Literally just bc he quoted me first so I assumed the question was directed at me in some way more than an open question? Also tbh because pure mech is easy to talk about without having read up beforehand and I had barely read the thread atp


----------



## Eifie

Keldeo said:


> I have to go. Please hold otter to posting the thoughts about rari and Seshas I asked her for.


excuse you I didn't give you permission to leave


----------



## Boquise

Sometimes when I want to insert images, the browser completely freezes whilst the site tauntily updates when I am missing new post. This calls for turning off the computer and heating up some of my cinnamon apple dough tbh


----------



## mewtini

mewtini said:


> i guess my main qualm nowadays is that idk how to read his post after VM's superpower claim
> because it was something that even otter, after not being involved in much discussion, realized pretty quickly (??? i think? that was a weird timeline honestly) and that given he's been keeping with a pattern of activity-punctuated-by-nontrivial-posts i was confused that he, one of the more cerebral? posters, was thrown off guard by/felt the need to investigate a claim that i thought was a really obvious shitpost. so maybe i'm paranoid, it just seemed off


in the meantime as i write up my Super Cool and Very Convincing Post, i wanna dredge this back up


----------



## mewtini

(in re: mawile)


----------



## kyeugh

i kind of believe mawile is being genuine but also i don’t agree with like any of his posts


----------



## Eifie

oh that reminds me @Keldeo asked me about the one or two Mawile posts that I liked and they were the ones about thinking Seshas was using his claimed role information in a towny way. it was basically exactly what I had already been saying so there's that. but I liked it ok that's why the tier is pretty low and called "They Made A Post I Liked" or something


----------



## Keldeo

Eifie said:


> excuse you I didn't give you permission to leave


I'll try to pop in but I'll be super multitasking.



Mawile said:


> VM confused me with his joke post because I immediately thought back to whoever it was in the last TVTropes Mafia that claimed that one really complicated role about needing to get the Big Bad lynched or whatever and didn't want to deal with a headache like that again.
> 
> I think ILS's utter confusion post and Ottercopter's whole taking it seriously thing a page later also threw me off somewhat and made me think it was real, and I got even more confused.
> And then people helpfully outright told me that it was a joke, so thank you


What do you make of this explanation, Mewtini? I think it seems like, fair enough. 

@Mawile do you have any alignment read on rari / kyeugh / Herbe based on what you mentioned about them?


----------



## Boquise

Panini said:


> Yo boq!
> Literally just bc he quoted me first so I assumed the question was directed at me in some way more than an open question? Also tbh because pure mech is easy to talk about without having read up beforehand and I had barely read the thread atp


yeah i noticed that afterwards.

People focusing on mech talk is usually people I can't help myself from scum reading. Since it really is super easy to talk about without reading whilst looking like one is contributing (sometimes it even can derail a game when several people start talking/arguing about some mech nonsense instead of solving). You didn't really capitalise on that tho so we good tbh


----------



## Boquise

kyeugh said:


> i kind of believe mawile is being genuine but also i don’t agree with like any of his posts


what exactly is it you disagree with and why?


----------



## Boquise

Keldeo said:


> I guess it's just me but I still don't have like, a strong opinion on those Otter posts.
> 
> You're saying this is like, ILS v/otter w and otter trying to tamp down on the derpclear? I could see it - I actually think that if wolf/wolf otter/ILS, maybe she latches onto Seshas's idea more instead of shrugging and leaving herself neutral on ILS.
> 
> I have to go. Please hold otter to posting the thoughts about rari and Seshas I asked her for.


I am not saying that this is ILS v/Otter w
What made you interpret it as such tbh?


----------



## kyeugh

Boquise said:


> what exactly is it you disagree with and why?


my main takeaways from mawile are that he finds keldeo’s early posts scummy (disagree), and then the thing about how do we know vm is joking


----------



## kyeugh

kyeugh said:


> my main takeaways from mawile are that he finds keldeo’s early posts scummy (disagree), and then the thing about how do we know vm is joking


* found?


----------



## Boquise

kokorico said:


> Well, maybe I can help there!
> 
> My impressions pretty much exactly match rari_teh's. The tentative feeling I was unsure about sharing was that *Keldeo* was coming off as mafia to me. The posts since last night are starting to shift my opinion the other way, but the jury's still out.
> 
> My reasoning was that most of his posts so far, excluding tomfoolery, consisted of things that were nominally useful to town and came across as him trying to be helpful, but actually provided little new information or insight and didn't require a great deal of effort to come up with. Things like explaining mechanics and TCoD meta to new players, voting for inactive players to prod them into talking (without tagging them??), asking other people about their reads (including, once, on himself!) and summarising the town's hypotheses or collating them into lists.
> 
> He freely volunteered his reads in #65, at the top of #125, and again in #244, but other than that I don't recall seeing any actual new contributions, except last night when he voiced his support for IndigoEmmy. Though even that wasn't exactly enormously useful - I agree with everyone else who's spoken that she's highly unlikely to be pulling a fast one.
> 
> _Standard disclaimer: I don't know any of you, and have zero mafia experience on TCoD and not much anywhere else. Take my analysis with a pinch of salt._


This is a good chicken tbh


----------



## Keldeo

Boquise said:


> I am not saying that this is ILS v/Otter w
> What made you interpret it as such tbh?


Sorry, how else is it damage control? Otter wasn't talking about her original thought on VM's claim in that post, she was talking about Seshas's read on ILS, afaict.


----------



## kyeugh

oh i think i thought that koko post you just quoted was mawile


----------



## Boquise

Keldeo said:


> Sorry, how else is it damage control? Otter wasn't talking about her original thought on VM's claim in that post, she was talking about Seshas's read on ILS, afaict.


yeah but where do you get that I am saying that ILS is v? How is that connected to me thinking that Otter is damage controlling their own posts?


----------



## mewtini

ok i'll split my initial long post up into multiple smaller boys because i want to get my mawile thoughts out.

 i'm kind of unconvinced.
as i said before, i was okay with him just for being involved and active during d1. i gave him the benefit of the doubt when he made the incredibly rough take on VM's ""roleclaim"" because i didn't think it would be a great look to jump on him in that moment. i appreciate kyeugh taking it as a genuine claim and can understand why, but imo mawile's style has NOT been centered around making off-the-cuff posts which is frankly the only situation in which i think misunderstanding VM's claim would realistically happen. the way he posted is only consistent with ... if anyone had read VM's post once, it would be clear it was a joke.


mewtini said:


> i'm having a really hard time suspecting any of the active players with, like, maybe .5 of an exception (that i need to think more about, that's kind of why i'm rereading)


and for future reference, the .5 was referring to mawile. i'm not voting for him now because ... active player attachment <3 but i've been sus for a bit now


----------



## mewtini

mewtini said:


> the way he posted is only consistent with


with having read everyone's posts EXCEPT for vm's


----------



## Keldeo

Boquise said:


> yeah but where do you get that I am saying that ILS is v? How is that connected to me thinking that Otter is damage controlling their own posts?


I don't see how you were thinking that Otter was damage controlling her own posts based on that post because it wasn't about her previous posts, can you explain? I thought you meant that wolf Otter was controlling the damage (meaning correct townreads) resulting from the reactions to VM's claim.


----------



## Keldeo

inb4 "how does Keldeo know ILS is town" I don't, I'm talking about the hypothetical world that I thought you were talking about


----------



## Eifie

my current brain is what if I ignore the smart and intelligent-sounding Seshas post and just vote ILS and hope he doesn't feel like he's being punished for actually coming in and posting a bit if he turns out to be town after all because he's probably having a lot of trouble keeping up anyway


----------



## Boquise

Mawile said:


> I'm confused by how we know if VM is joking or not? Is it because his role seems overpowered in addition to having the universal backup, or did I miss something else?


smh

uuh i think this reaction is a bit better. ILS and Otter has already received some suspicion of their reaction. Regardless of their alignment, I dont think a scum would come in and make a third confused post because they should view it as something they dont want to touch. This reads more like someone newly awake tbh

or idk. I am looking at what I see as "optimal play" or "probable mentality of scum" so it is awfully subjective.


----------



## kyeugh

Eifie said:


> my current brain is what if I ignore the smart and intelligent-sounding Seshas post and just vote ILS and hope he doesn't feel like he's being punished for actually coming in and posting a bit if he turns out to be town after all because he's probably having a lot of trouble keeping up anyway


 this is kiiiind of where i’m at rn re ils but also i don’t have a super good grasp on what’s up with him and am kind of just glazing over at all this/nodding with whichever explanation i vibe with the most lol
so much has happened toDay and also i’m slightly drunk rn so trying to process this ils situation i barely really understand the basis of is kind of hard for me rn


----------



## mewtini

Boquise said:


> uuh i think this reaction is a bit better. ILS and Otter has already received some suspicion of their reaction. Regardless of their alignment, I dont think a scum would come in and make a third confused post because they should view it as something they dont want to touch. This reads more like someone newly awake tbh


basically i can roll with this for now, but it would be i think the only 'newly awake' post that mawile has issued all thread, unless i'm forgetting about something


----------



## Boquise

Keldeo said:


> I don't see how you were thinking that Otter was damage controlling her own posts based on that post because it wasn't about her previous posts, can you explain? I thought you meant that wolf Otter was controlling the damage (meaning correct townreads) resulting from the reactions to VM's claim.


Iirc I quoted Otter's post and said it was damage control and prior I had quoted their whole sling of posts. So I am a bit confused why you don't see it as that?

I paused on Squirtle after reading Seshas's post but still concluded that it looked bad.

I really don't see how this can be confusing? My posts have been kinda free flow-y with that


----------



## Novae

oh boy 10 pages what did I miss


----------



## kyeugh

Mist1422 said:


> oh boy 10 pages what did I miss


we mist you!


----------



## Eifie

Mist1422 said:


> oh boy 10 pages what did I miss


some lame-o started spamming the thread with nonsense

oh wait that was me


----------



## Eifie

kyeugh said:


> this is kiiiind of where i’m at rn re ils but also i don’t have a super good grasp on what’s up with him and am kind of just glazing over at all this/nodding with whichever explanation i vibe with the most lol
> so much has happened toDay and also i’m slightly drunk rn so trying to process this ils situation i barely really understand the basis of is kind of hard for me rn


I feel like boq has been pretty much going through the same thing 24 hours delayed in the past couple of pages so maybe it would help you to read over it

being drunk sounds like an enviable position


----------



## Keldeo

Boquise said:


> Iirc I quoted Otter's post and said it was damage control and prior I had quoted their whole sling of posts. So I am a bit confused why you don't see it as that?
> 
> I paused on Squirtle after reading Seshas's post but still concluded that it looked bad.
> 
> I really don't see how this can be confusing? My posts have been kinda free flow-y with that


Okay, maybe I should have started off by asking you how Otter's post about her read on ILS is damage control for her read on VM. They are about different topics, so I am still confused about how it is "damage control." Just giving another read to try to distract from her earlier read that wasn't received well...?


----------



## Boquise

Eifie said:


> I feel like boq has been pretty much going through the same thing 24 hours delayed in the past couple of pages so maybe it would help you to read over it
> 
> being drunk sounds like an enviable position


that reminds me
I should drink

thanks for reminding me spouse tbh


----------



## Boquise

Keldeo said:


> Okay, maybe I should have started off by asking you how Otter's post about her read on ILS is damage control for her read on VM. They are about different topics, so I am still confused about how it is "damage control." Just giving another read to try to distract from her earlier read that wasn't received well...?


I did not get that Otter was making a read out of Squirtle... Maybe I misread some posts? Afaik her postings were limited to reacting to VM's claim and then awkwardly damage controlling their reaction, especially after being questioned about it


----------



## kyeugh

Eifie said:


> I feel like boq has been pretty much going through the same thing 24 hours delayed in the past couple of pages so maybe it would help you to read over it
> 
> being drunk sounds like an enviable position


i’ve been reading it! i’m just not like, really internalizing it i guess. i guess i don’t understand what the big differences between ils’/mawile’s/otter’s reactions were. why focus on ils here


----------



## Keldeo

Like, in a vacuum, yeah I would read quoting a sequence of posts X, then quoting post Y and saying it's damage control, as directly relating X to Y. But in this case I don't see how X relates to Y, so I interpreted your thought as a read on Y alone. Can you help me understand what you were thinking?


----------



## Keldeo

Oh, okay. 



Ottercopter said:


> Wondering about roles doesn't seem /that/ farfetched to me. Nobody's gonna claim to know about what other people's/alignments' roles, especially on just day 1. Just because they stuck "mafia" in front doesn't make him any more or less suspicious to me.
> Aaaand I don't really have any further thoughts because they got lost between reading all 34 pages of thread. I'll try going back and keeping notes from here on. '-'


I am pretty sure the "he" here is ILS and this is in response to Seshas's read, not another elaboration on her thoughts/reaction about VM?


----------



## Boquise

Ottercopter said:


> Okay, just went through the thread again including my bad read of VM's joke claim, _yuck,_ but I still don't have any insights that someone else hasn't already said. I don't even really know how to defend myself besides just that I'm a natural lurker and I don't like to post unless I have something that could further the conversation.
> Offtopic example, but I've been part of tCoD for well over a decade by now and I can recite a lot of things I remember, but I doubt anyone would be able to say much they remember about me. Hell, i was shocked when I first heard that Eifie remembered me from playing Mafia. I'll try and post more if that clears suspicion, but mostly reading and not actually contributing isn't new for me.
> 
> I guess I don't like that Seshas said we should lynch someone day 1 when there wasn't much to go by a while back? But they're also voting for me right now, so I have plenty of incentive to say that.


man this is so hard


----------



## Boquise

I think if i reverse uno card it, it can look like Seshas' is pouncing on a struggling villa. Like it is a super good place to start a fake case, but Seshas has their claim meh


----------



## Eifie

kyeugh said:


> i’ve been reading it! i’m just not like, really internalizing it i guess. i guess i don’t understand what the big differences between ils’/mawile’s/otter’s reactions were. why focus on ils here


I guess for me it's the fact that it's one of his like, 7 posts, and that he was the one to actually bring it up a few hours after the claim was made, which seems like, incongruent. Like his posting patterns make it look like he's not keeping up that much and I think he mostly was responding to stuff that was happening right then, so then that one post about VM's claim that happened a few hours earlier was like, hm. And then he never posted about anything after, so that's also like, hm. And I wondered if it was the kind of thing that came up in mafia chat and that's how that happened.


----------



## kyeugh

hm ok i can see that tbh
y’all are saying it’s probably not otter w/ils w?


----------



## Boquise

Keldeo said:


> Like, in a vacuum, yeah I would read quoting a sequence of posts X, then quoting post Y and saying it's damage control, as directly relating X to Y. But in this case I don't see how X relates to Y, so I interpreted your thought as a read on Y alone. Can you help me understand what you were thinking?


"That ILS post looks like a pop-in. He could be scum."
"this is some awkward dance made by otter"
"hmm it just got more awkward"
"where did squirtle go btw"
"otter looks pretty bad ngl tbh"
"oh this seshas post has a good point for why squirtle's reaction is townie. But I like that I am getting somewhere ):"

tl;dr: my thoughts were separated from each other.


----------



## Eifie

kyeugh said:


> hm ok i can see that tbh
> y’all are saying it’s probably not otter w/ils w?


I don't really have an opinion on that myself I guess, because it felt (to re-use the same word because I can't think of a better one) ~incongruent~ for both of them but also like can that really be it. Can it really be that easy. probably not. idk?


----------



## Keldeo

kyeugh said:


> hm ok i can see that tbh
> y’all are saying it’s probably not otter w/ils w?


That was just me, I think. What do you think of it?

I think if they are partners, Otter's reaction to Seshas's read on ILS was a little weird, it kept her options open for no reason kinda when I think multiple people had "derpcleared" ILS for his reaction.

That goes against Eifie's read that the claim was mentioned in mafia chat and that's why they both popped in to talk about it.


----------



## Keldeo

It's a pretty weak unaligned read and probably jumping the gun a little but it makes sense to me. idk.


----------



## Eifie

Keldeo said:


> That was just me, I think. What do you think of it?
> 
> I think if they are partners, Otter's reaction to Seshas's read on ILS was a little weird, it kept her options open for no reason kinda when I think multiple people had "derpcleared" ILS for his reaction.
> 
> That goes against Eifie's read that the claim was mentioned in mafia chat and that's why they both popped in to talk about it.


I suppose I could see it as a sort of soft bus, but idk if a feel of "pay attention to him not me" is how a bus works


----------



## Boquise

Eifie said:


> hmm, luckily I am totally masons with Keldeo so I don't actually have to consider this, but my impression from having seen Keldeo be mafia twice recently(ish) is that as mafia he likes to be seen doing work and having Very Deep Thoughts that are meant to look very towny in a sense of "I am totally a town who is totally probing extremely deeply into this thing because I am totally a town who cares", so if I wasn't masons with Keldeo this would actually make me lean more towards him being town, hehe.


this is interesting since I am coming to the opposite read based on the Very Deep Thoughts thing tbh


----------



## Boquise

Keldeo said:


> Oh, okay.
> 
> 
> I am pretty sure the "he" here is ILS and this is in response to Seshas's read, not another elaboration on her thoughts/reaction about VM?


oh yeah thats true
I was so caught in it feeling so over-explainy that I didnt realise who the subject was of that post. Could be w/w


----------



## Keldeo

Boquise said:


> this is interesting since I am coming to the opposite read based on the Very Deep Thoughts thing tbh


Can you elaborate when you're done catching up?


----------



## Eifie

Boquise said:


> this is interesting since I am coming to the opposite read based on the Very Deep Thoughts thing tbh


imo he's mostly posting regular-level thoughts and not the kind of things that have a specifically LAMIST (Look At Me I'm So Towny) feel that's like "this is an extremely nuanced opinion because I am heavily analyzing every tiny thing to find wolves"


----------



## Boquise

rari_teh said:


> He seems to get suspicious easily.
> 
> When I raised the possibility that Negrek could be mafia, he thought I was mafia trying to throw shade at her (although I didn’t even say I believed her to be mafia (I never did), only speculated about possible scenarios regarding VM’s powers in d2). When I explained myself, he agreed, on the grounds that Negrek’s role could easily be faked, and also mentioned that he was suspicious of VM because of his backtrack on his role’s powers (which was most likely a honest mistake). Then, finally, when he took VM’s outtake as true, he mused about what kind of OP shit must exist among the mafia.
> 
> I believe he’s town, though you can never be 100% sure.


The thing with people when they get suspicious easily is that they, if they are scum, like to test the waters. Prod a little. Playing as scum is like playing a game of Jenga and the town players are the jenga blocks.


----------



## Boquise

M&F said:


> hello, future person reading this, and my condolences for how insufferable it must be to go through 40 pages of stuff only to get to the part where everyone seems to be mawing about there not being enough posts-


----------



## Eifie

Eifie said:


> imo he's mostly posting regular-level thoughts and not the kind of things that have a specifically LAMIST (Look At Me I'm So Towny) feel that's like "this is an extremely nuanced opinion because I am heavily analyzing every tiny thing to find wolves"


I wanted to make a hilarious joke that wolf Keldeo is basically Keldeo RPing Newcomb, but town Keldeo is also kind of like Keldeo RPing Newcomb


----------



## Mawile

Keldeo said:


> do you have any alignment read on rari / kyeugh / Herbe based on what you mentioned about them?


rari gives me mild suspicion in that they were willing to give opinions before and now stated that they're reluctant. I almost kind of feel like the backtracking on wanting to give opinions thing is some kind of preemptive cover up? As in, it's a excuse to only post heavily curated opinions for the sake of keeping secrets. I would put them at the lower end of my amorphous blob of "probably town", in the "potentially less likely to be town" section.

kyeugh seems to be pushing to be aggressive in a way that feels like she's trying hard to be beneficial to town, but I don't know if it's an act or not. (I don't know if this is typical behavior for her town game?) However, I feel that it would be even more suspicious if she were to suddenly change her act later on to be less aggressive, as it could be a sign that she was told to tone it down by someone else. She also goes in the "potentially less likely to be town" blob section for now.

Herbe gives me mild weirdness (not necessarily suspicion). It's just kind of a bit weird to me that he focused so hard on giving an opinion about mewtini with quoted posts to give exact evidence and hasn't even really mentioned much about other people? It could just be an oversight on his end, but I still find it odd. Out of the three, though, Herbe gives me the least level of caution in comparison and would therefore go to the "probably town" amorphous blob, unless he manages to post something that gives me bad feelings.


----------



## mewtini

otter - i don't really care much either way about her now, i guess i understand why there are damage control vibes but i kind of think she was far more of a derpclear to me than ils is in retrospect. also i'm maybe being more pragmatic than some others are about not wanting to suspect ppl for being active d1; i don't feel that way about anyone other than otter, who i want to give more time to, 

and even if she is mafia it doesn't really matter to me as long as we get anyone who i still think would be a better lynch,
ie my boy:
ILS - i like seshas' takes overall but i think it was maybe too generous to ils because it didn't consider the patterns that i've been working to establish the last dozen pages or so. otter's initial post-VM questioning still reads better to me than mawile's or ils' because it sounded the most rattled/confused, which could potentially be true of town; i maintain that mawile sounded too resolute and that ils' surprise sounded too vague.

also it kind of bothers me that seshas' comment there cleared all suspicion from ILS even now, when i think it's obvious that even if their take was a smart thought in the moment, it doesn't check out when he came out of NOWHERE on a very mafia-bait post. i'm going to again recount ils' posts so far and try to include context. 
(for the sake of transparency, this recap is excluding 210, 224, 273, and 304 where he sounded pretty much like a normal town - in a scenario where it was excessively easy to sound like normal town)



I liek Squirtles said:


> I'm getting kinda not great vibes from rari_teh... they've been super quick to pounce on Negrek, hm.


this is from the first pair of roleclaims: when negrek had claimed to learn the ability of all players who die and when vm had claimed to absorb the ability of all non-mafia who die. i didn't, and still don't, think it was a far stretch to consider the implications of the fact that a direct factcheck had just been announced, especially to rari_teh who's been playing gullible!town and has toyed/run thought experiments with multiple people in an attempt to scum or townread. "super quick to pounce" was, if i remember correctly, one of the more accusatory remarks made in early game.

also, while negrek wasn't widely suspected (most people, including me, didn't) it still wasn't that weird of a take from rari_teh when seshas, who was already sounding kinda trustworthy, had separately mentioned "mafia" and "negrek" in the same sentence



rari_teh said:


> It’s less _pouncing_ and more _raising the consideration that they might not be town_. You gotta admit that claiming such a powerful role on d1 is suspicious, especially coming from someone who’s played a lot of mafia.





I liek Squirtles said:


> That's true, especially that it's a role that could be easily faked. To be honest, I'm also a little suspicious of VM because they backtracked on their claim. It's still too early to be sure of much of anything, at any rate.


the VM suspicion is weird to me; i think most of us read it as genuine, and VM also volunteered to claim roles the next day to factcheck negrek. (VM also later essentially volunteered to be lynched because he's throwing the game, which is even less reason VM would be mafia lol, but ils maybe didn't see that. just a thought)

and FINALLY we have


I liek Squirtles said:


> Uhhh holy shit
> 
> This is some truly wild stuff,, which means the mafia must have some wilder stuff and now I really don't know what to expect from roles in this game lmao


which i still think sounds like a pop-in. on the off-chance that otter really is mafia, they DID successfully distract because everyone immediately believed ils was just being silly


----------



## Keldeo

Eifie said:


> boq re-enacting eif's internal struggle live 1080p 2020 colourized


I like his catchup so far. Tell me what you think of it later on?



Spoiler






Eifie said:


> I wanted to make a hilarious joke that wolf Keldeo is basically Keldeo RPing Newcomb, but town Keldeo is also kind of like Keldeo RPing Newcomb


The wolf RP is better because I actually kill wolves!


----------



## mewtini

in closing.... (and sorry if i've missed something relevant, have only been periodically checking),

*i liek squirtles*. between him/otter/mawile, otter and mawile are still voices i want to hear from (particularly otter, though i admit you guys have pushed her a few spaces lower in my ranking) so i'd rather lynch him for being honestly pretty quiet and posting only very flimsy content. i can be convinced to go for redneckphoenix instead, if people would rather go with someone ever so slightly less active, but i have more reasons i'm against ils; even if he's town, we don't lose out any more than we probabilistically would by lynching odie or RNP, since he hasn't said anything but was still involved in a few scenarios that i find sketchy


----------



## mewtini

gonna go catch up now


----------



## Zori

that was an activity spike O_O


----------



## Eifie

Keldeo said:


> Spoiler
> 
> 
> 
> The wolf RP is better because I actually kill wolves!





Spoiler: secret mason chat for masons only



full version of the joke that I thought of immediately after clicking post reply: wolf Keldeo is basically Keldeo RPing Newcomb, while town Keldeo is like Keldeo trying to RP Newcomb but he fails a little because without TMI he can't just make a big list of town and a small list containing all the wolves and be 100% correct


----------



## mewtini

Mawile said:


> It's just kind of a bit weird to me that he focused so hard on giving an opinion about mewtini with quoted posts to give exact evidence and hasn't even really mentioned much about other people?


[slight conflict of interest but i promise i'd say it even if it weren't my name mentioned]

herbe has seemed really self-conscious in his posts to the point where i think the fact he volunteered info there has less to do with who it was and more to do with keldeo having solicited that information


----------



## Boquise

M&F said:


> aha, weaklings! I'm about to make a long post on mobile,  and I'll link to TV tropes the entire time I do it!
> 
> ... don't mind me not putting any quotes on this post btw
> 
> wrt activity in general: I feel it's worth pointing out that, although a relative dearth of engagement can be scummy, a high level of engagement as mafia... well, it can be very risky, but there are some crucial rewards at stake for the ones who pursue it. deflecting blame from a scumbuddy, or distancing oneself from one to earn Townie Points... not to mention that speculating on town's power roles and hunting for third-parties is very much in a mafiosx's interest (much as I hate to say it because I'll do the former out of sheer nerdy curiosity anyway)
> 
> which is all to say, careful about townreading someone just because they contribute! gotta make sure their contributions are helping town, too. although this is certainly something far easier to examine in the long-term; right now, lynching ostensibly useful posters sure seems less appealling than offing inactives
> 
> speaking of, I can't remember what prompted me thinki ng about it now, but I was thinking it'd be hilarious and adorable if it turned out mewtini and herbe were mafia together rn. like, I'd still lynch them both but I'd hate to,
> 
> wrt IndigoEmmy -- the impression I got is that she was being coy with her info because she was roleplaying the part of Mysterious Informant as given to her, and frankly I'm not sure why no one else seems to have arrived at that conclusion earlier!
> 
> wrt I Liek Squirtles -- I'll need to refreshen up on the fabled derpclear, but otherwise, I do have to point I've seen more activity from him in other games where he was town. again, this sort of thing can come with either a scummy explanation or a neutral one, but it Sure Is


so i have had a super difficult time following M&F's posts. They pop in. Make some largish post with links to tv tropes and barely engages with posts or with players in real time. I also don't really get the point of them, like how they are coming from someone who wants to figure out the game. They just exist in a vacuum to me.


----------



## mewtini

Boquise said:


> so i have had a super difficult time following M&F's posts. They pop in. Make some largish post with links to tv tropes and barely engages with posts or with players in real time. I also don't really get the point of them, like how they are coming from someone who wants to figure out the game. They just exist in a vacuum to me.


lol yeah i kind of see m&f as questionable; part of me has written them off bc they're joking around but i also wonder if it's like, rapport-building. or equivalently if it qualifies as saying a lot while saying nothing of use


----------



## Panini

Boquise said:


> yeah i noticed that afterwards.
> 
> People focusing on mech talk is usually people I can't help myself from scum reading. Since it really is super easy to talk about without reading whilst looking like one is contributing (sometimes it even can derail a game when several people start talking/arguing about some mech nonsense instead of solving). You didn't really capitalise on that tho so we good tbh


Tbh I thought you might say something like this and I don't disagree, it just felt a bit bad to try and pass it off as something it wasn't when it essentially just boiled down to me being ineffectual

I find it kind of interesting @Eifie was one of the first people to float Odie as a lynch when iirc during the first MU-TCOD invitational I'm pretty sure she was resistant to the idea of killing DarkAura who was put in kind o the same position? Would be interested in hearing her process on that

(For ref my own feelings are that I'm not crazy about the idea of the 0 poster lynch but if inactive slots have to be manually resolved it's not a terrible option)

I have no idea how to find the start of this otter/ILS/Seshas stuff, your Iso system perplexes and bemuses me.


----------



## Eifie

Boquise said:


> so i have had a super difficult time following M&F's posts. They pop in. Make some largish post with links to tv tropes and barely engages with posts or with players in real time. I also don't really get the point of them, like how they are coming from someone who wants to figure out the game. They just exist in a vacuum to me.


I'm glad someone else agrees

@Keldeo that was actually why she was specifically left out of my "Let Them Vibe" list a while ago but I was just kinda like shrug, whatever later because no one else cared so I let you add her


----------



## Panini

As in like I know how to do it but is there a way to sort chronologically?


----------



## Eifie

Panini said:


> I find it kind of interesting @Eifie was one of the first people to float Odie as a lynch when iirc during the first MU-TCOD invitational I'm pretty sure she was resistant to the idea of killing DarkAura who was put in kind o the same position? Would be interested in hearing her process on that


I've said it like a gazillion times by now!

I don't wanna tell people who might actually play later that they don't get to be a part of all the fun shenanigans of our revival game on d1 when I have basically no suspicions that I feel super-strongly about. It's sad.


----------



## mewtini

mewtini said:


> in closing.... (and sorry if i've missed something relevant, have only been periodically checking),
> 
> *i liek squirtles*. between him/otter/mawile, otter and mawile are still voices i want to hear from (particularly otter, though i admit you guys have pushed her a few spaces lower in my ranking) so i'd rather lynch him for being honestly pretty quiet and posting only very flimsy content. i can be convinced to go for redneckphoenix instead, if people would rather go with someone ever so slightly less active, but i have more reasons i'm against ils; even if he's town, we don't lose out any more than we probabilistically would by lynching odie or RNP, since he hasn't said anything but was still involved in a few scenarios that i find sketchy


last thing before i briefly stfu and go back to do the catch-up-and-reply dance. reiterating that i am against the zero-vote lynch, when, as keldeo said earlier, odie is so absent to the point of it being possible that IF they rolled mafia, they could be nonparticipatory in mafia chat. 

i'm genuinely ok with rnp instead, and i wouldn't be _upset_ if the consensus rolled around to odie, but i don't really understand what the defenses in favor of ils are - beyond players not wanting to punish anyone for d1 activity. as far as im concerned odie is a non-player and if we skip ils and rnp it goes down to flora. 

so if someone could explain their pro-ils sentiments i would be really curious to hear


----------



## Boquise

Ottercopter said:


> Yep! Day phases are so long... Although yeah, fair point, early voting for a lynching definitely felt more suspicious than early abstaining, which didn't really seem off to me until days later when I'm trying to find things to make note of that people haven't already said.
> Starting to think that's a worse habit than I initially thought it would be, heh.


This is to me good thoughts and all but the post kinda breaks the immersion I had of the post I commented as "this makes this so hard". In that post, it felt coming from someone who was unsure how to play/contribute/get a grip on the game whereas here it feels like a firm grip.

I am sorry if this is disheartening you Otter. I dont mean to be a critic ):


----------



## Boquise

Ottercopter said:


> Impulse posting things just because I haven't posted much or noticed much, but wanna contribute (Mewitti said something earlier about us both having a complex about being insightful enough for Mafia and that's pretty spot-on).
> 
> (Keldeo, thoughts on Rari and Seshas in progress, reviewing stuff now. Although I feel like this'll be hard to answer in a neutral-sounding way when they're both suspicious of me.)


so you were impulse posting before because you had not posted that much prior to that?


----------



## Eifie

I liek Squirtles said:


> Uhhh holy shit
> 
> This is some truly wild stuff,, which means the mafia must have some wilder stuff and now I really don't know what to expect from roles in this game lmao


@Panini I think you can just start here


----------



## Boquise

Boquise said:


> hello tbh




Caught up. Need to catch up on the posts I have missed smh
also fyi i am mostly skimming long posts because i have a short attention span atm tbh


----------



## Boquise

Eifie said:


> that would be pretty hilarious but I have a vague wondering if him not caring much about the game makes him more likely town
> 
> idfk


sorry tbh
i am a mood player

when i am in a not good mood it gets hard for me to engage especially in new places
atm i am in a sloppy mood so i will play sloppily tbh


----------



## Boquise

Keldeo said:


> Can you elaborate when you're done catching up?


I feel like you post a lot but I don't really get the sense of it. It looks good on a surface level. Your questions of me on the ILS/otter thing felt like you wanted to create a talking point by poking at some details. Even tho I had misread one post lmao, but that was what I felt, or feel. Idk


----------



## Boquise

Boquise said:


> sorry tbh
> i am a mood player
> 
> when i am in a not good mood it gets hard for me to engage especially in new places
> atm i am in a sloppy mood so i will play sloppily tbh


i am also trying to ignore the crippling anxiety based on that work starts on tuesday tbh


----------



## kyeugh

i agree about mf but also feel preemptively like it’s the “i just don’t have any feelings about anyone” thing that so many people have been saying so i haven’t really been raising my eyebrows at it ig. i think she has kind of tempered prevailing sentiments in ways i agree with so i haven’t been really watching her as closely/thinking about her so deeply. negrek is in this exact same boat for me actually 

that said idrk where she (or negrek) stand on any specific person; their takes on players have been p hedgy imo and i’d be interested in seeing reads lists


----------



## Boquise

Keldeo said:


> I like his catchup so far. Tell me what you think of it later on?
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler
> 
> 
> 
> The wolf RP is better because I actually kill wolves!


what was it with my catch-up that was to your liking tbh


----------



## Eifie

kyeugh said:


> i agree about mf but also feel preemptively like it’s the “i just don’t have any feelings about anyone” thing that so many people have been saying so i haven’t really been raising my eyebrows at it ig. i think she has kind of tempered prevailing sentiments in ways i agree with so i haven’t been really watching her as closely/thinking about her so deeply. negrek is in this exact same boat for me actually
> 
> that said idrk where she (or negrek) stand on any specific person; their takes on players have been p hedgy imo and i’d be interested in seeing reads lists


@Negrek in the same boat hahahahahahaha

anyway yeah I've basically been ignoring any doubt I feel about Negrek atm because I'm just like "whatever, roleclaim, evaluate later". In particular there was a post where they said they were pleased about VM's "claim" causing so much stuff to happen but then proceeded to offer completely zero thoughts about any of the stuff that happened. I remember raising my eyebrows a lot but then being like "whatever. roleclaim." and moving on


----------



## kyeugh

haha wait i forgot about negrek’s claim. that puts them above mf for me. still ideally want to see a reads list though


----------



## Eifie

it's almost 5 pm and I need to brush my teeth and eat breakfast somebody kick me out


----------



## Boquise

Panini said:


> Tbh I thought you might say something like this and I don't disagree, it just felt a bit bad to try and pass it off as something it wasn't when it essentially just boiled down to me being ineffectual
> 
> I find it kind of interesting @Eifie was one of the first people to float Odie as a lynch when iirc during the first MU-TCOD invitational I'm pretty sure she was resistant to the idea of killing DarkAura who was put in kind o the same position? Would be interested in hearing her process on that
> 
> (For ref my own feelings are that I'm not crazy about the idea of the 0 poster lynch but if inactive slots have to be manually resolved it's not a terrible option)
> 
> I have no idea how to find the start of this otter/ILS/Seshas stuff, your Iso system perplexes and bemuses me.


well i did go back and look and corrected myself. What I was actually looking at was who and what did you choose to respond to with your limited posts. If you were limited to just one or two players, so that is why I first took notice of you replying to that post because it felt like the only convo you were in whilst other stuff was taking place at the same time. Your reaction to my post (and kinda this post too) were kinda more aggressive than I anticipated they'd be.

I really dont remember who Odie was... the cute dog from Garfield tbh?


----------



## kyeugh

wtf foh eif go brush


----------



## mewtini

Boquise said:


> I really dont remember who Odie was... the cute dog from Garfield tbh?


odie is the only standing inactive. 0 posts and unreachable


----------



## Boquise

Eifie said:


> it's almost 5 pm and I need to brush my teeth and eat breakfast somebody kick me out


i'll tell Barfie to kick your butt up to the toothbrush tbh


----------



## kyeugh

Boquise said:


> I really dont remember who Odie was... the cute dog from Garfield tbh?





kyeugh said:


> odie


----------



## Boquise

who dares painting a picture of a PUPPY being KICKED?! THIS IS UNACCEPTABLE.


----------



## Boquise

read list i guess tbh


Boquise



Eifie
kyeugh
kokorico
Seshas
IndigoEmmy
rari_teh
mewtini
mawile


Negrek
Keldeo
Panini
Herbe
Stryke
Mist1422


Flora
RedneckPhoenix
Mr. Ultracool
Odie_Pie
serimachi
Vipera Magnifica


I liek Squirtles
Ottercopter
M&F


----------



## Boquise

can I see the votes or is there someone keeping track on em


----------



## Eifie

Boquise said:


> can I see the votes or is there someone keeping track on em


poor Butterfree is probably reading every post and keeping track of them manually

meanwhile I keep forgetting who I'm even voting


----------



## Boquise

If this game has indies then I think inactives could be amongst them. Thats usually where indies hide ime. 

I want to say that I am not a fan of VM coming in making a joke claim and not stay to sow the reactions. Or like, bask in the confusion and laughs their tomfoolery caused. Like that is the point of making jokes: stroking your ego tbh


----------



## mewtini

Boquise said:


> I want to say that I am not a fan of VM coming in making a joke claim and not stay to sow the reactions. Or like, bask in the confusion and laughs their tomfoolery caused. Like that is the point of making jokes: stroking your ego tbh


LOL. this has been brought up a lot but i'm pretty sure vm literally does not care at this point/is fine with getting killed off


----------



## Eifie

so boq

a) can I have my own woweesprite tier
b) I will happily accept the pocket for now and maybe wonder later if you might be overcompensating for last game where you overcompensated for a previous game by refusing to townread obvtown me but might just not ever wonder because townreads are my biggest weakness


----------



## Zori

Odie isn't a good lynch because mafia have little incentive to save him


----------



## Boquise

Eifie said:


> poor Butterfree is probably reading every post and keeping track of them manually
> 
> meanwhile I keep forgetting who I'm even voting


----------



## Boquise

Eifie said:


> so boq
> 
> a) can I have my own woweesprite tier
> b) I will happily accept the pocket for now and maybe wonder later if you might be overcompensating for last game where you overcompensated for a previous game by refusing to townread obvtown me but might just not ever wonder because townreads are my biggest weakness


a) okay tbh
b)


----------



## Boquise

Seshas said:


> Odie isn't a good lynch because mafia have little incentive to save him


----------



## Boquise

mewtini said:


> LOL. this has been brought up a lot but i'm pretty sure vm literally does not care at this point/is fine with getting killed off


but but but
why even make a joke 

like
if throw in some dynamite in a house, ofc you'd watch the kaboom!


----------



## Eifie

I'm glad my boyfriend is winning over my friends with his vast collection of memes


----------



## Boquise

i will vote squirtles despite their noble name to moralise mewtini and because aside from the one post we have discussed, there was one older post that made me go HMM. But I dont remember which and I want to drink my drink and watch Survivor and post memes tbh


----------



## Zori

idk newcomer meta on this site but I think mafia are less likely to be swamped because they have the power of confbias on their side


----------



## Boquise

i'mma ask the glorious question i havent got to ask sincerely for years

how do i vote tbh


----------



## Eifie

Boquise said:


> i'mma ask the glorious question i havent got to ask sincerely for years
> 
> how do i vote tbh


bold the person's name

I'll probably vote later. like 10 seconds to eod. :wowee:


----------



## mewtini

Boquise said:


> i'mma ask the glorious question i havent got to ask sincerely for years
> 
> how do i vote tbh


posting their bolded username


----------



## mewtini

eifie was more on the #ball than me. :')


----------



## Boquise

Eifie said:


> I'm glad my boyfriend is winning over my friends with his vast collection of memes





http://imgur.com/S3ZJrBO


----------



## Boquise

*IliekSquirtles*


----------



## Herbe

Hello everyone I'm on f***ing page 42 right now so I'll see y'all in like, a half hour minimum
@Keldeo I did see your questions but I'm gonna wait to answer till I read everything new


----------



## mewtini

Herbe said:


> Hello everyone I'm on f***ing page 42 right now so I'll see y'all in like, a half hour minimum
> @Keldeo I did see your questions but I'm gonna wait to answer till I read everything new


bro. godspeed.


----------



## Eifie

Boquise said:


> http://imgur.com/S3ZJrBO


WOLFCHAT GIF


----------



## Boquise

Seshas said:


> idk newcomer meta on this site but I think mafia are less likely to be swamped because they have the power of confbias on their side


nah depends tbh

When I am scum I do get stressed and feel swamped when other players post a lot and fast. Like, sure, you are scum and you post yourself up there to the top town. But then if you aren't in the thread, people will start forgetting why you are town read. Like, the reads people have of you will grow thinner. It is like the recency effect. As town idgaf because I can run off and then come back later and still post in ease. I dont need to build an image there because I already have one (town). Idk if this makes sense. 

And even with confbias, you will need to make your posts to match the thread flow so you don't tl;dr or accidentally out your partners.


----------



## Boquise

Herbe said:


> Hello everyone I'm on f***ing page 42 right now so I'll see y'all in like, a half hour minimum
> @Keldeo I did see your questions but I'm gonna wait to answer till I read everything new


----------



## Panini

Eifie said:


> I've said it like a gazillion times by now!
> 
> I don't wanna tell people who might actually play later that they don't get to be a part of all the fun shenanigans of our revival game on d1 when I have basically no suspicions that I feel super-strongly about. It's sad.


hweh
I mean I get it, I guess it's just a sore sticking point for me that you'd feel differently about this game for reasons when if you had had this attitude before that would have been nice for me 



Eifie said:


> @Panini I think you can just start here


Thank ye
I think my thoughts pretty much line up with what Seshas' immediate interpretation was anyway: it looks kind of derpy for ILS whereas I think the backtracking and suggestion for an abstain is kind of worse from Ottercopter. That being said I kind of want to question whether mafia floats the latter that transparently unless they don't really realize the implication of what they're saying or their confident in playing it off as a good idea  so idk. It's just v fumble overall.


----------



## Zori

*newcomer mafia


----------



## Boquise

Eifie said:


> WOLFCHAT GIF





http://imgur.com/LoAZ6k9


----------



## Keldeo

Skimmed, I have like 20 minutes here. I know people have asked me stuff, will try to get to it.



Seshas said:


> Odie isn't a good lynch because mafia have little incentive to save him


I honestly don't care as much about doing a Good Lynch today as much as I want to give everyone who's actually here like 72 more hours with the game, hehe. But I'm just being soft I think.

I gotta think more deeply/actually read the ILS cases, atm I'd vote him to get a lynch over abstaining. Does anyone know how many abstains there have been?


----------



## Boquise

Seshas said:


> *newcomer mafia


oh!


----------



## Eifie

Panini said:


> hweh
> I mean I get it, I guess it's just a sore sticking point for me that you'd feel differently about this game for reasons when if you had had this attitude before that would have been nice for me


I do like to be inconvenient to the mafia tbh


----------



## Panini

I'm kinda HRnm about Stryke tending to get slotted up/glossed over more than the other low posters


----------



## kyeugh

Panini said:


> I'm kinda HRnm about Stryke tending to get slotted up/glossed over more than the other low posters


 yes


----------



## Eifie

I don't understand the Seshas post but I guess other people do so they can deal with it

I kind of enjoy the lulz of not knowing who is voting what but it's probably a good idea to ask @Butterfree for a current vote count

also I think I'm voting boq so I'll *unvote*


----------



## Boquise

so is it like normal for there to be the exact same role twice?


----------



## kyeugh

Boquise said:


> so is it like normal for there to be the exact same role twice?


for tv tropes mafia apparently


----------



## Boquise

kyeugh said:


> for tv tropes mafia apparently


oh okay


----------



## Mawile

Boquise said:


> oh okay


I personally wouldn't wanna write 25 distinct roles if I was Butterfree.


----------



## Eifie

Mawile said:


> I personally wouldn't wanna write 25 distinct roles if I was Butterfree.


(let's not tell him about the mashes)


----------



## Mawile

Eifie said:


> (let's not tell him about the mashes)


(the what)


----------



## Keldeo

I liek Squirtles said:


> That's true, especially that it's [Negrek's role is] a role that could be easily faked. To be honest, I'm also a little suspicious of VM because they backtracked on their claim. It's still too early to be sure of much of anything, at any rate.


idk if there was a dropped "not" somewhere here but I'm hmming at the double suspicion that Mewtini pointed out plus the fact that I think someone (kokorico?) had pointed out before this that Negrek's role wasn't actually very easily faked.

At the same time I still like Seshas's read on the "Uhh holy shit" post.


----------



## Eifie

Butterfree liked my post about Negrek and the "same boat" thing and I'm so glad



Mawile said:


> (the what)


(on mafia universe there are large games (like 60-90 players, up to like 120 for the yearly anniversary mash) called "mashes" and they have a lot of unique roles. there was a recent bastard mash of 82(?) and I'm pretty sure all roles were unique and there were no vanillas)


----------



## Keldeo

MF is in my "let them vibe" tier because I really enjoy when I hover over her links and they are funny things. I don't have a strong opinion on her content so far, I think it's pretty been NAI for her.


----------



## Boquise

Mawile said:


> I personally wouldn't wanna write 25 distinct roles if I was Butterfree.


it wasnt meant as criticism tbh! Just good to know tbh


----------



## Boquise

Eifie said:


> Butterfree liked my post about Negrek and the "same boat" thing and I'm so glad
> 
> 
> 
> (on mafia universe there are large games (like 60-90 players, up to like 120 for the yearly anniversary mash) called "mashes" and they have a lot of unique roles. there was a recent bastard mash of 82(?) and I'm pretty sure all roles were unique and there were no vanillas)


Even vanillas use to have their own unique flavour, such as in the mafia anniversary game


----------



## Mawile

Eifie said:


> (on mafia universe there are large games (like 60-90 players, up to like 120 for the yearly anniversary mash) called "mashes" and they have a lot of unique roles. there was a recent bastard mash of 82(?) and I'm pretty sure all roles were unique and there were no vanillas)


(oh ok)



Boquise said:


> it wasnt meant as criticism tbh! Just good to know tbh


Nah I was just joking, don't worry.


----------



## Keldeo

Mewtini I think we were maybe talking past each other on Odie. I think you can make like some read based on how the thread handles a 0-posting slot or whatever, but town Eifie brought the idea of lynching them up first and I think any read like "oh the thread doesn't seem opposed to this lynch" is going to be cursory and not really move the needle for me up to the "don't actually want to kill this person toDay" tier.


----------



## Boquise

Keldeo said:


> MF is in my "let them vibe" tier because I really enjoy when I hover over her links and they are funny things. I don't have a strong opinion on her content so far, I think it's pretty been NAI for her.


Who do you want to push?


----------



## Eifie

Boquise said:


> Even vanillas use to have their own unique flavour, such as in the mafia anniversary game


Keldeo and I were the flavour for the mason roles!!!

what a coincidence with this rand, eh.


----------



## Keldeo

Boquise said:


> Who do you want to push?


No one lol. I don't have any real scumreads.


----------



## Keldeo

Seshas said:


> idk newcomer meta on this site but I think mafia are less likely to be swamped because they have the power of confbias on their side


Who does this apply to iyo? I don't particularly remember anyone saying that they were like excessively swamped or not swamped although I'm sure that applies to many people.


----------



## Boquise

Keldeo said:


> No one lol. I don't have any real scumreads.


thats a bit weird to me, considering you have done a lot of big posts with lots of thoughts and they dont seem to amount to a lot? I guess you have town reads?

This reminds me in the one game where I played with you and you were scum. You kinda spent D1 working against the most primary pushes (like the one going on me) but not coming up with alternatives (until like eod1 or sod2). 

I'mma watch swedish survivor now tbh


----------



## Keldeo

Boquise said:


> thats a bit weird to me, considering you have done a lot of big posts with lots of thoughts and they dont seem to amount to a lot? I guess you have town reads?
> 
> This reminds me in the one game where I played with you and you were scum. You kinda spent D1 working against the most primary pushes (like the one going on me) but not coming up with alternatives (until like eod1 or sod2).
> 
> I'mma watch swedish survivor now tbh


Yep! I am really bad at scumreading people. Eifie can (I hope) tell you that this is ~my town meta more recently


----------



## Eifie

Keldeo said:


> Yep! I am really bad at scumreading people. Eifie can (I hope) tell you that this is ~my town meta more recently


I endorse this, especially since I also have no scumreads


----------



## Keldeo

Also I've like mainly focused on the active players, who I think all have been vaguely to extremely towny, so /shrug

Ottercopter like randomly brought up serimachi's early abstain being suspicious in conjunction with him not saying anything later on. It feels like a weird push because like... the thread was pretty past that at that point, and a couple of people had liked serimachi (the vocal Eifie being one of them) so it felt kind of agendaless or whatever, but also it wasn't really something that I agreed with


----------



## mewtini

Keldeo said:


> I gotta think more deeply/actually read the ILS cases, atm I'd vote him to get a lynch over abstaining. Does anyone know how many abstains there have been?


i think serimachi's abstain stands from like really early on, idk if there were any others (i abstained early on too during the early-vote-joking but have, ofc, since voted)


----------



## mewtini

Panini said:


> it looks kind of derpy for ILS whereas I think the backtracking and suggestion for an abstain is kind of worse from Ottercopter.


what about the fact that ILS has visited to cast suspicion and subsequently disappeared multiple times, when otter has at least held conversations with ppl


----------



## Keldeo

Also Boq I liked your catchup because your early game felt kind of like... timid, shy? appease-y? toward Eifie in particular and that felt a bit put-upon, whereas your catchup felt natural/genuine/flowy, particularly the way you reacted to new information coming in re: the Otter/ILS situation, and also went a bit against-the-grain at points

Will try to pop in before deadline but no guarantees


----------



## mewtini

Keldeo said:


> Mewtini I think we were maybe talking past each other on Odie. I think you can make like some read based on how the thread handles a 0-posting slot or whatever, but town Eifie brought the idea of lynching them up first and I think any read like "oh the thread doesn't seem opposed to this lynch" is going to be cursory and not really move the needle for me up to the "don't actually want to kill this person toDay" tier.


oh yeah, understand. no i wasn't really using odie-votes as alignment flags, i just personally really do not want to vote for him when i think there are multiple logically better options that, as far as i can see, wouldn't hurt us


----------



## Eifie

Hmm. Okay maybe I can do something useful with my vote. What if I vote *Ottercopter* so that maybe there can be ~competing wagons~ or something


----------



## mewtini

mewtini said:


> as far as i can see, wouldn't hurt us


which is the only real rationale for inactive-lynching. we don't want to vote for actives (me 10000% included) for their insight, nor semi-actives who could provide insight and might not have had time to participate in day 1. but i still like vehemently maintain that there are a few people who fall right in between


----------



## Butterfree

I have no idea how the votes stand right now to be honest, I’ve been catching up on mobile

Reminder that you’ve got two hours left in the day.


----------



## Boquise

Keldeo said:


> Yep! I am really bad at scumreading people. Eifie can (I hope) tell you that this is ~my town meta more recently


i have heard of that but like, it was the same during that D1. We'll see how the game develops. What I am observing is that some are trying to not stamp in the sand and just go somewhere whereas your what if posts can put peeps back in stamping the sand. Whether that is deliberate or not, I do not know yet tbh


----------



## kyeugh

wait, _two hours_?? the deadline isn’t in est??? everything isn’t about me?????


----------



## Negrek

Eifie said:


> @Negrek in the same boat hahahahahahaha


Ffffuck yoooooouuuuu

I haven't said much because I haven't got much to say, which is pretty common in the first couple of days of play. I feel like most speculation based on a handful of posts is grasping at straws; unless some mafia member screws up royally right away (which certainly does happen), I think there's rarely enough to go on without the benefit of a couple more flips and info picked up during the night. I'll post when I have something to say, but I don't like talking to fill up air. Like I said, my reads are that no one in particular stands out as scummy to me, and as far as "pretty much confirmed innocent" goes, that's only IndigoEmmy and honestly probably VM, to my eyes.

One thing I did think was interesting was Keldeo's earlier post about rari_teh referring to kyeugh as qva despite not knowing her, but Eifie was the first one to use that name in the thread (on page 10, I think?), so no dice there.

To be honest, I'm a bit baffled by all the assertions that ILS' reaction to VM's joke post is suspicious; likewise Ottercopter's. If you took it seriously, it was a very surprising post, and I don't think it odd that someone would pop up to respond even if they hadn't said much before. I also especially fail to see how wondering about what powers the mafia might have if the innocents really did have such a ridiculous role on their side is thinking about things from a mafia point of view, as I believe someone said shortly after he made that comment. As for my opinion on the chaos VM's post caused, some people freaked out and made confused posts; I didn't see anything alignment-indicative about them. If anything I'm more inclined to believe that people posting their misreads are more likely to be innocent, because I would hope that if someone saw that and ran off to scumchat with an "oh no that power is insane what do we do???" at least *someone* there would have been able to tell them to chill and not draw attention to themselves over a silly joke post.

At this point I would certainly like to hear more out of ILS, but he wouldn't be my first lynch target. He (and Stryke, and Ottercopter) have at least shown an interest in engaging with what's going on, while I agree there isn't much value in voting out Odi_Pie. So, with that in mind, I think my vote is actually *RedNeckPhoenix*, since as far as I'm aware he hasn't shown up to except to comment a couple of times on how fast the game is moving. I would hope to see more out of ILS, Stryke, and Ottercopter in the future, but I don't actually see any of them as particularly mafia at this point, and if they're actually going to play then we'll learn more about them anyhow; if not, then they will make easy lynch targets if there's no more obvious target later on.

(Also I'm pretty sure Flora has done basically nothing this game, too? But I'm used to the days when she didn't post at all in any of her games, so even a little engagement is kind of a surprise, heh.)


----------



## Negrek

kyeugh said:


> wait, _two hours_?? the deadline isn’t in est??? everything isn’t about me?????


Butterfree's weird timezone strikes again, lol


----------



## kyeugh

fuck. ok. i thought i had wayyy more time. i’m going to go read the relevant stuff again. would anyone mind pitching me their vote (particularly the ils/otter wagon proponents)?


----------



## mewtini

Negrek said:


> So, with that in mind, I think my vote is actually *RedNeckPhoenix*,


and i agree with neg's analysis of rnp, but i'm going to repeat that


Negrek said:


> I'm aware he hasn't shown up to except to comment a couple of times on how fast the game is moving.


this is also true of ils except that he had also made sus comments long before the VM reaction, which i can understand being seen as benign


----------



## mewtini

kyeugh said:


> fuck. ok. i thought i had wayyy more time. i’m going to go read the relevant stuff again. would anyone mind pitching me their vote (particularly the ils/otter wagon proponents)?


i forget if you saw mine, but my pitch spanned 1090, 1092, and 1103


----------



## Boquise

i am okay with Redneckphoenix as a target but it is quite a boring place to be

we wont learn much from that flip


----------



## mewtini

mewtini said:


> this is also true of ils except that he had also made sus comments long before the VM reaction, which i can understand being seen as benign


in particular, my discomfort was _not_ because of his reaction alone (i wrote it off because i agreed w seshas) but because i really didn't like the callout pattern even beforehand, one which was also seen by rari_teh. this is also why i'm more ok with otter, because she didn't have ils-style callouts under her belt


----------



## kyeugh

Negrek said:


> One thing I did think was interesting was Keldeo's earlier post about rari_teh referring to kyeugh as qva despite not knowing her, but Eifie was the first one to use that name in the thread (on page 10, I think?), so no dice there.


 what do you mean by this? it seems like you’re maybe saying keldeo doesn’t know me so it’s surprising he’d call me qva and not kyeugh (thus suggesting he might’ve picked it up in wolfchat), but if that’s indeed what you meant, keldeo def knows me and i played as qva with him on another forum

that said, this was legit panini’s tell in that one game looool. #tbt


----------



## mewtini

kyeugh said:


> it seems like you’re maybe saying keldeo doesn’t know me so it’s surprising he’d call me qva and not kyeugh


this was about rari calling you qva, if i read it right


----------



## Negrek

kyeugh said:


> what do you mean by this? it seems like you’re maybe saying keldeo doesn’t know me so it’s surprising he’d call me qva and not kyeugh (thus suggesting he might’ve picked it up in wolfchat), but if that’s indeed what you meant, keldeo def knows me and i played as qva with him on another forum
> 
> that said, this was legit panini’s tell in that one game looool. #tbt


No, Keldeo pointed out that _rari_teh_ called you qva early on, and speculated that he might have picked that name up from mafia members. I know that Keldeo knows you, lol


----------



## Butterfree

Negrek said:


> Butterfree's weird timezone strikes again, lol


I live in the official default timezone, it’s you guys who are weird >:/


----------



## kyeugh

ohhh! i read it as keldeo’s post referring to me as qva, not rari referring to me as qva. whoops. i was kinda like ?? hahaha
that is actually an enlightened take even with eif’s calling me qva first not withstanding  but maybe i’m just looking for reasons to scumread rari


----------



## Eifie

I wish I knew the votecount lol

from the votes I remember there are 2 for ILS, 2 for Ottercopter, 1 for Odie_Pie, 1 for RNP, and ??? abstains


----------



## mewtini

kyeugh said:


> ohhh! i read it as keldeo’s post referring to me as qva, not rari referring to me as qva. whoops. i was kinda like ?? hahaha
> that is actually an enlightened take even with eif’s calling me qva first not withstanding  but maybe i’m just looking for reasons to scumread rari


honestly i've been trying to search for where the first qva mention came up but it's too short of a word to search on xenforo. have been googling for a bit about it hah.... this would be good to resolve


----------



## Eifie

mewtini said:


> honestly i've been trying to search for where the first qva mention came up but it's too short of a word to search on xenforo. have been googling for a bit about it hah.... this would be good to resolve


Negrek said page 10!


----------



## mewtini

mewtini said:


> but [an ils vote] is also not something i'm going to fight super hard for,


tbt to when i said this honestly. how my mind has since changed


Eifie said:


> Negrek said page 10!


oh oops! this is embarrassing lol imagine not reading


----------



## Eifie

mewtini said:


> tbt to when i said this honestly. how my mind has since changed
> 
> oh oops! this is embarrassing lol imagine not reading


it's not on page 10 I just checked but maybe around there


----------



## kyeugh

i’ve also said “i’m qva” explicitly i think twice now but i do think it’s kiiiind of a weird thing for someone who doesn’t know me to pick up? but definitely not impossible ig


----------



## Negrek

mewtini said:


> in particular, my discomfort was _not_ because of his reaction alone (i wrote it off because i agreed w seshas) but because i really didn't like the callout pattern even beforehand, one which was also seen by rari_teh. this is also why i'm more ok with otter, because she didn't have ils-style callouts under her belt


As far as I can see, the only posts where he's accused anyone of anything are one where he said he was getting "kinda not great vibes from" rari_teh and one where he was "a little suspicious of VM." The VM one in particular I'm not sure what he's getting at, but these don't really seem like "callouts" to me? Or much of a pattern? Posting vague things like this and then poofing is maybe a little like the mafia putting out feelers, but if actually mafia I feel like he wouldn't have just vanished after that last VM post once it became clear he'd drawn unwelcome attention with it.

The point about an RNP lynch not giving much information is fair; I'd kind of been thinking of all inactive lynches being pretty much equal here, but what would ILS' alignment tell us? Would we feel comfortable slotting Ottercopter as innocent or mafia based on what ILS flipped (or vice versa)?


----------



## Boquise

Eifie said:


> I wish I knew the votecount lol
> 
> from the votes I remember there are 2 for ILS, 2 for Ottercopter, 1 for Odie_Pie, 1 for RNP, and ??? abstains


iirc i have one from keldeo tbh


----------



## Eifie

Eifie said:


> it's not on page 10 I just checked but maybe around there


alternatively maybe Negrek uses 50 posts per page or something


----------



## Boquise

Butterfree said:


> I live in the official default timezone, it’s you guys who are weird >:/


i agree tbh


----------



## Eifie

Boquise said:


> iirc i have one from keldeo tbh


I think he moved to Odie_Pie


----------



## Negrek

Eifie said:


> it's not on page 10 I just checked but maybe around there


Ugh, I'll look again. I had to ctrl+F every page because qva is too short for the search.


----------



## Eifie

kyeugh said:


> i’ve also said “i’m qva” explicitly i think twice now but i do think it’s kiiiind of a weird thing for someone who doesn’t know me to pick up? but definitely not impossible ig


maybe he just didn't want to try to remember how to spell "kyeugh" because I remember that was why I wrote qva :wowee:


----------



## Herbe

Hi everyone I'm here, it took me like a whole ass hour+ to catch up, but I'm here
Just in case my post takes too damn long to type up, *ILiekSquirtles* is my vote for right now, give me a bit to explain myself though. tl;dr for reasons I've already stated, I trust mewtini, and I think her case on him is a solid d1 case as any. we certainly learn more from this flip at least. this is changing my vote from odiepie, bc this seems at the VERY least marginally more useful

Post with Quotes and Such coming y'alls way


----------



## kyeugh

Negrek said:


> As far as I can see, the only posts where he's accused anyone of anything are one where he said he was getting "kinda not great vibes from" rari_teh and one where he was "a little suspicious of VM." The VM one in particular I'm not sure what he's getting at, but these don't really seem like "callouts" to me? Or much of a pattern? Posting vague things like this and then poofing is maybe a little like the mafia putting out feelers, but if actually mafia I feel like he wouldn't have justThe point about an RNP lynch not giving much information is fair; I'd kind of been thinking of all inactive lynches being pretty much equal here, but what would ILS' alignment tell us? Would we feel comfortable slotting Ottercopter as innocent or mafia based on what ILS flipped (or vice versa)?





Negrek said:


> As far as I can see, the only posts where he's accused anyone of anything are one where he said he was getting "kinda not great vibes from" rari_teh and one where he was "a little suspicious of VM." The VM one in particular I'm not sure what he's getting at, but these don't really seem like "callouts" to me? Or much of a pattern? Posting vague things like this and then poofing is maybe a little like the mafia putting out feelers, but if actually mafia I feel like he wouldn't have just vanished after that last VM post once it became clear he'd drawn unwelcome attention with it.
> 
> The point about an RNP lynch not giving much information is fair; I'd kind of been thinking of all inactive lynches being pretty much equal here, but what would ILS' alignment tell us? Would we feel comfortable slotting Ottercopter as innocent or mafia based on what ILS flipped (or vice versa)?


i feel like this wasnt your intention but this post is communicating to me that an rnp vote and an ils one aren’t really that different in terms of information yield, and you concede that ils has done things that could be regarded as mildly suspicious even if you don’t think it’s damning whereas rnp is basically just null


----------



## Negrek

Huh, no, it looks like qva herself was the first to mention it, in a post on page 22. Which is considerably later than I thought. I need to look at rari_teh's post history again, then.


----------



## kyeugh

i didnt mean to quote that twice sorry


----------



## kyeugh

Eifie said:


> maybe he just didn't want to try to remember how to spell "kyeugh" because I remember that was why I wrote qva :wowee:


 just sound it out!


----------



## Eifie

Eifie said:


> alternatively maybe Negrek uses 50 posts per page or something


apparently we can't change posts per page on xenforo. I guess that's convenient since it means people can actually talk about page numbers


----------



## mewtini

Negrek said:


> As far as I can see, the only posts where he's accused anyone of anything are one where he said he was getting "kinda not great vibes from" rari_teh


maybe, i still think he had a bizarre reading in saying that rari was _pouncing _on you (and i think quoting "kinda not great vibes" ignores the most dramatic verb in ILS' post).



Negrek said:


> and one where he was "a little suspicious of VM." The VM one in particular I'm not sure what he's getting at, but these don't really seem like "callouts" to me? Or much of a pattern?


i think they seem more callout-y when he's barely been involved in discussion as is :/ i'd feel better if he just popped in at those same times to say "sorry, catching up"



Negrek said:


> but if actually mafia I feel like he wouldn't have just vanished after that last VM post once it became clear he'd drawn unwelcome attention with it.


he hadn't drawn unwelcome attention? he got instantly cleared?

my 2 cents is still pretty much just this


Negrek said:


> Posting vague things like this and then poofing is maybe a little like the mafia putting out feelers


and tbh i kind don't know what to make of negrek now because



kyeugh said:


> i feel like this wasnt your intention but this post is communicating to me that an rnp vote and an ils one aren’t really that different in terms of information yield, and you concede that ils has done things that could be regarded as mildly suspicious even if you don’t think it’s damning whereas rnp is basically just null


----------



## Eifie

I believe Negrek did actually put in the effort to ctrl-F "qva" on every page to try to find the first mention before making that long posts of theirs and that seems pretty legit to me!

It's totally the kind of Very Deep Thought and Totally Nuanced Read that wolf!Keldeo would do except Negrek isn't Keldeo so I think it's just a real thing. :p


----------



## mewtini

mewtini said:


> he hadn't drawn unwelcome attention? he got instantly cleared?


like yes there's unwelcome attention on him NOW but if he is also just combo inactive/mafia or something i don't want to involve the fact that he hasn't yet popped up hundreds of posts later


----------



## Negrek

kyeugh said:


> i feel like this wasnt your intention but this post is communicating to me that an rnp vote and an ils one aren’t really that different in terms of information yield, and you concede that ils has done things that could be regarded as mildly suspicious even if you don’t think it’s damning whereas rnp is basically just null


No, that's accurate. If lynching either is equivalent in terms of information gained, I'd rather go for the person who doesn't appear to have any interest in playing. If an ILS lynch would give us more information, that's the better choice. So, if ILS is mafia, what does that mean? If he's innocent, what does that mean?

I will admit that I'm also reluctant to go for an ILS lynch because I truly don't understand why mewtini's so adamant about it.


----------



## Herbe

Keldeo said:


> @Herbe, what do you think about kyeugh and rari independently, and their discussion with mewtini about the voting thing?


I will be entirely honest that I don't remember what voting thing you're talking about, @Keldeo , and I'd have to get a refresher but for right now I don't necessarily have the time to go back and investigate. I'm neutral on kyeugh, maybe the needle tips town but overall neutral. rari seems town to me tbh but that could change.


Mawile said:


> It's just kind of a bit weird to me that he focused so hard on giving an opinion about mewtini with quoted posts to give exact evidence and hasn't even really mentioned much about other people? It could just be an oversight on his end, but I still find it odd.


you can note that I got explicitly asked right after I said that I townread her:


Keldeo said:


> Herbe, why do you townread mewtini?





mewtini said:


> herbe has seemed really self-conscious in his posts to the point where i think the fact he volunteered info there has less to do with who it was and more to do with keldeo having solicited that information


yeah that's kinda true, although I wouldn't go to that effort for someone I didn't feel I had a really solid read on. also wdym by self-conscious?


----------



## kyeugh

Negrek said:


> No, that's accurate. If lynching either is equivalent in terms of information gained, I'd rather go for the person who doesn't appear to have any interest in playing. If an ILS lynch would give us more information, that's the better choice. So, if ILS is mafia, what does that mean? If he's innocent, what does that mean?
> 
> I will admit that I'm also reluctant to go for an ILS lynch because I truly don't understand why mewtini's so adamant about it.


i mean i kinda get that sentiment but i think if information yield is equal it makes more sense to go for the guy you think is even marginally more likely to be scum. not wanting to punish people for participating is respectable but the primary purpose of this game is to hunt scum. that is probably the reason mewt is adamant about it


----------



## mewtini

Negrek said:


> I will admit that I'm also reluctant to go for an ILS lynch because I truly don't understand why mewtini's so adamant about it.


i'm honestly not sure how to re-re-re-re-rephrase it without sounding like i'm pushing it too hard so bear with me if it comes off like that in the forthcoming summary. and i am also being genuine when i say i'm totally ok with an RNP vote (which is why i went so far as to mention it as an alternate vote when i finally voted ILS) and i was significantly more afraid of an odie lynch at the time than i currently am about RNP over ILS


----------



## kyeugh

i’m like borderline convincing myself to vote for ils lol but i actually get worse vibes from otter i thiiink?


----------



## Eifie

kyeugh said:


> i’m like borderline convincing myself to vote for ils lol but i actually get worse vibes from otter i thiiink?


as far as I know it's 3 ILS vs 2 Otter, wanna come on the Otter wagon with me for science?


----------



## Negrek

I guess what I should say is, I think I understand where mewtini is coming from, but I don't agree. I don't see ILS as particularly scummy, so in my mind, he and RNP are essentially equivalent outside of participation.

So again, what are we hoping to learn from ILS' death?


----------



## mewtini

kyeugh said:


> i’m like borderline convincing myself to vote for ils lol but i actually get worse vibes from otter i thiiink?


hahahaha also i understand the otter wagon and would be fine with that too, this is where i kinda feel eif's "i don't want to kill people just coming in :(((" vibes from earlier. i dont have the same sympathy for people who've posted fewer than 10 times, which otter at least has. will expand momentarily but i just thought losing inno!otter would be more of a loss than losing inno!ils or anything!rnp


----------



## kyeugh

Eifie said:


> as far as I know it's 3 ILS vs 2 Otter, wanna come on the Otter wagon with me for science?


*ottercopter*
lettuce science!
mostly i just don’t want to forget to vote for SOMEONE lol.


----------



## Boquise

Negrek said:


> As far as I can see, the only posts where he's accused anyone of anything are one where he said he was getting "kinda not great vibes from" rari_teh and one where he was "a little suspicious of VM." The VM one in particular I'm not sure what he's getting at, but these don't really seem like "callouts" to me? Or much of a pattern? Posting vague things like this and then poofing is maybe a little like the mafia putting out feelers, but if actually mafia I feel like he wouldn't have just vanished after that last VM post once it became clear he'd drawn unwelcome attention with it.
> 
> The point about an RNP lynch not giving much information is fair; I'd kind of been thinking of all inactive lynches being pretty much equal here, but what would ILS' alignment tell us? Would we feel comfortable slotting Ottercopter as innocent or mafia based on what ILS flipped (or vice versa)?


since squirtle has been discussed, we can look at those who were for and against voting them and so on etc


----------



## Boquise

otter is a good lynch too tbh


----------



## Boquise

@Keldeo what was it that you liked with my catchup tbh


----------



## Boquise

Herbe said:


> Hi everyone I'm here, it took me like a whole ass hour+ to catch up, but I'm here
> Just in case my post takes too damn long to type up, *ILiekSquirtles* is my vote for right now, give me a bit to explain myself though. tl;dr for reasons I've already stated, I trust mewtini, and I think her case on him is a solid d1 case as any. we certainly learn more from this flip at least. this is changing my vote from odiepie, bc this seems at the VERY least marginally more useful
> 
> Post with Quotes and Such coming y'alls way


----------



## Herbe

mewtini said:


> i just thought losing inno!otter would be more of a loss than losing inno!ils or anything!rnp


I'm kind of ambivalent on lynching otter; I'm w boq saying that she's a good lynch too, but the reason inno!ils really isn't giving us anything positive (vs inno!otter, who is doing at least marginally more), ils is just kinda popping in to throw suspicion then leaving, if I'm following the current discussion correctly. I feel good with my vote staying as it is.


----------



## Herbe

what's up boq?


----------



## Boquise

sorry herbe i dont mean that in a mean sense

It just feels opportunistic to me and the vote itself feels a bit cynical tbh
ive also waited for an opportunity to post that meme tbh


----------



## mewtini

Negrek said:


> No, that's accurate. If lynching either is equivalent in terms of information gained, I'd rather go for the person who doesn't appear to have any interest in playing. If an ILS lynch would give us more information, that's the better choice. So, if ILS is mafia, what does that mean? If he's innocent, what does that mean?


am writing this post in between replying to everything else so bear with me. 

i settled on ILS/RNP because they were both inactive, but not so inactive that they were confirmed to just be ghosting the game altogether. so my analysis is only between the two of them and is myopic in that way
this was also me being concerned that they were mafia feelers, but i think i noticed ILS more because he posted slightly more indepth analysis (not much, though) and so i now think RNP is more likely to just be inactive than ILS
RNP is closer to an infoless kill, a la odie_pie. he has said zilch so no one knows literally anything about him
ILS has a pattern that i am just made really uneasy by but i accept that my reads were just subjective
i chose not to bandwagon otter because a) sympathy and b) she's been more talkative at least than ILS
_i don't think we lose anything by voting ILS_ because he's said nothing of use, and we've talked about him and as boq said it'll produce so much more intel to watch how things pan out after this discussion
so basically we lose nothing, but gain nothing with RNP lynch, and i think we lose nothing and potentially gain with an ILS lynch
idk why my take is apparently getting controversial when i literally am whittling down "what's the most profitable, but safe (read: NOT an active player) vote" which i think is a much more pacifistic take than otter, which i'm just too cowardly to get behind


----------



## Boquise

Herbe said:


> what's up boq?


it just makes me pause
maybe i am paranoid


----------



## Eifie

mewtini said:


> i just thought losing inno!otter would be more of a loss than losing inno!ils or anything!rnp


I for one think losing mafia!RNP would be a devastating blow to use and civilizations everywhere


----------



## kyeugh

i think it’s more fun to let it rand tbh


----------



## mewtini

mewtini said:


> idk why my take is apparently getting controversial


this was meaner than intended and maybe i'm just on edge after hours of reading this thread, but neg's takes have confused me for what kyeugh initially replied with


----------



## kyeugh

Eifie said:


> I for one think losing mafia!RNP would be a devastating blow to use and civilizations everywhere


scummy sympathy tbh


----------



## Boquise

Negrek said:


> Huh, no, it looks like qva herself was the first to mention it, in a post on page 22. Which is considerably later than I thought. I need to look at rari_teh's post history again, then.


what is the purpose of this tbh


----------



## Herbe

No offense taken, I don't mind the pushback actually. I also appreciate a well placed meme


----------



## Boquise

mewtini said:


> am writing this post in between replying to everything else so bear with me.
> 
> i settled on ILS/RNP because they were both inactive, but not so inactive that they were confirmed to just be ghosting the game altogether. so my analysis is only between the two of them and is myopic in that way
> this was also me being concerned that they were mafia feelers, but i think i noticed ILS more because he posted slightly more indepth analysis (not much, though) and so i now think RNP is more likely to just be inactive than ILS
> RNP is closer to an infoless kill, a la odie_pie. he has said zilch so no one knows literally anything about him
> ILS has a pattern that i am just made really uneasy by but i accept that my reads were just subjective
> i chose not to bandwagon otter because a) sympathy and b) she's been more talkative at least than ILS
> _i don't think we lose anything by voting ILS_ because he's said nothing of use, and we've talked about him and as boq said it'll produce so much more intel to watch how things pan out after this discussion
> so basically we lose nothing, but gain nothing with RNP lynch, and i think we lose nothing and potentially gain with an ILS lynch
> idk why my take is apparently getting controversial when i literally am whittling down "what's the most profitable, but safe (read: NOT an active player) vote" which i think is a much more pacifistic take than otter, which i'm just too cowardly to get behind


I dont really get why you feel like your take is controversial when the majority seems to agree with you?


----------



## Herbe

that last responce was @ boq fwiw. everyone is talking over each otherrrrr


----------



## kyeugh

Boquise said:


> what is the purpose of this tbh


 i don’t know rari, if they called me “qva” before anyone said it in thread they probably got it from wolfchat


----------



## mewtini

Boquise said:


> I dont really get why you feel like your take is controversial when the majority seems to agree with you?





mewtini said:


> this was meaner than intended and maybe i'm just on edge after hours of reading this thread, but neg's takes have confused me for what kyeugh initially replied with


----------



## mewtini

also not counting up names/takes very well rn, i just got put off by the "idk why mewt is so adamant" when i think my rationale is somewhat clear


----------



## Boquise

kyeugh said:


> i don’t know rari, if they called me “qva” before anyone said it in thread they probably got it from wolfchat


yeah
i just feel like there are a lot of large posts about that subject which is uh a bit weird
kinda putting focus elsewhere from the main topics?


----------



## Negrek

Negrek said:


> Huh, no, it looks like qva herself was the first to mention it, in a post on page 22. Which is considerably later than I thought. I need to look at rari_teh's post history again, then.


Best I can tell, first time he called kyeugh qva was on page 29. So, still nothing there, I don't think.


----------



## Boquise

aah okej gotcha tbh sorry


----------



## Boquise

Negrek said:


> Best I can tell, first time he called kyeugh qva was on page 29. So, still nothing there, I don't think.


----------



## kyeugh

Boquise said:


> yeah
> i just feel like there are a lot of large posts about that subject which is uh a bit weird
> kinda putting focus elsewhere from the main topics?


i mean i think it’s kind of major/more conclusive than the vague vibes everything else is running on if it ends up looking like they got it from wolfchat 
but seems not so point taken lol


----------



## Keldeo

Boq, I answered your ping in... I think my most recent post?

Negrek that was a pretty throwaway read tbh and I don't put much stock into it either way though it makes me feel better that Eif did say "qva" first.

I'm vibing. *I liek Squirtles*


----------



## Eifie

Keldeo said:


> I'm vibing. *I liek Squirtles*


:O


----------



## Mawile

I haven't voted yet, so I'm currently going to throw my hat in the *I liek squirtles* ring, because my choice is either him or RNP because of mild inactivity and I agree with mewtini's post about reasons for lynching him over RNP. Hopefully we get something out of this.


----------



## kyeugh

Keldeo said:


> Boq, I answered your ping in... I think my most recent post?
> 
> Negrek that was a pretty throwaway read tbh and I don't put much stock into it either way though it makes me feel better that Eif did say "qva" first.
> 
> I'm vibing. *I liek Squirtles*


but remember when panini did this with bfree!?!?!?!  my storied experience tells me that name slips are the best kind of evidence of all


----------



## Negrek

mewtini said:


> also not counting up names/takes very well rn, i just got put off by the "idk why mewt is so adamant" when i think my rationale is somewhat clear


Sorry if that came across as dismissive. I understand your rationale, it just doesn't seem like such a big deal to me.

But I will change my vote to *ILiekSquirtles*.


----------



## Herbe

Eifie said:


> :O


is it possible for masons to divorce each other? there might be some trouble in paradise...


----------



## Boquise

Keldeo said:


> Boq, I answered your ping in... I think my most recent post?
> 
> Negrek that was a pretty throwaway read tbh and I don't put much stock into it either way though it makes me feel better that Eif did say "qva" first.
> 
> I'm vibing. *I liek Squirtles*


hmmm interestiiiing


----------



## Eifie

hmmm...


----------



## Keldeo

I am no longer vibing

*Ottercopter*


----------



## Boquise

*Otter*


----------



## Mawile

Hey Negrek, do you know if you get the tropes of the people we lynch, or is it just for nighttiime deaths?


----------



## Eifie

Keldeo said:


> I am no longer vibing
> 
> *Ottercopter*


LMAO

Keldeo what's going on lol


----------



## kyeugh

is it weird that i feel weird that this vote on ils is kind of lopsided given the kinda inconclusive reasoning
like i don't think it's a bad wagon but i feel weird that THIS many people think it's the BEST wagon


----------



## Boquise

aww Keldeo you so fast tbh 

smh just because I had to HMM smh


----------



## Keldeo

I mean maybe I shouldn't be offput by that because Negrek is town for claim reevaluate later and Mawile has been like... fine for now... I guess

Hmm etc


----------



## kyeugh

lmfao my brain is sore.  yall stretching it


----------



## Eifie

umm I think the votes just went

3-3 ILS-Otter
4-3 ILS-Otter (Keldeo)
5-3 ILS-Otter (Negrek)
4-4 ILS-Otter (Keldeo)
3-4 ILS-Otter (Boquise)

except not actually because I think I don't have Mawile's vote in my votecount


----------



## rari_teh

Hey y’all! I’m trying to catch up but it seems that I’m reading at the same pace people are writing, so I’m permanently stuck at 10 pages behind lol (I’m posting this from page 54)

I’m accumulating a lot of quotes to comment, long post will income once I catch up


----------



## Negrek

Mawile said:


> Hey Negrek, do you know if you get the tropes of the people we lynch, or is it just for nighttiime deaths?


My role PM says I'm informed "whenever a player dies."


----------



## kyeugh

inb4 rari is lynched the moment before they make their whopper of a post


----------



## Eifie

kyeugh said:


> is it weird that i feel weird that this vote on ils is kind of lopsided given the kinda inconclusive reasoning
> like i don't think it's a bad wagon but i feel weird that THIS many people think it's the BEST wagon


no, that would be part of what my science wagon was meant to possibly find out


----------



## rari_teh

By the way I just clicked on page 64 and it seems people are agreeing with Seshas and me, so fuck it, *Ottercopter *is my final vote


----------



## Panini

kyeugh said:


> but remember when panini did this with bfree!?!?!?!  my storied experience tells me that name slips are the best kind of evidence of all


Yknow tbf the exact context of that was people going ah yes Bfree/Panini because of that and then it turned out it was actually RNP/Panini and I just like giving people nicknames :I


----------



## Boquise

Keldeo said:


> Also Boq I liked your catchup because your early game felt kind of like... timid, shy? appease-y? toward Eifie in particular and that felt a bit put-upon, whereas your catchup felt natural/genuine/flowy, particularly the way you reacted to new information coming in re: the Otter/ILS situation, and also went a bit against-the-grain at points
> 
> Will try to pop in before deadline but no guarantees


i see tbh

sometimes i just have to appease Eifie tbh
otherwise no dinner for me smh


----------



## Eifie

rari_teh said:


> By the way I just clicked on page 64 and it seems people are agreeing with Seshas and me, so fuck it, *Ottercopter *is my final vote


(just a note that this was already in my votecount because I thought rari was already voting otter. maybe they weren't. idk.)


----------



## Keldeo

Eifie said:


> LMAO
> 
> Keldeo what's going on lol


I was like "okay ILS's posts were kind of weird and Otter was a little agendaless" but then I crossposted with like 2 ILS votes and I was :|

I'm not fully here


----------



## kyeugh

btw we still have an hour left right.  why does it feel like we're in the last five minutes


----------



## kyeugh

Panini said:


> Yknow tbf the exact context of that was people going ah yes Bfree/Panini because of that and then it turned out it was actually RNP/Panini and I just like giving people nicknames :I


oh yeah.  i just remember making the read and did not recall the actual scumteam at all lmfao


----------



## Boquise

Panini said:


> Yknow tbf the exact context of that was people going ah yes Bfree/Panini because of that and then it turned out it was actually RNP/Panini and I just like giving people nicknames :I


----------



## Herbe

weird???

also re: ils being Best wagon, kyeugh, just bc i feel fine about my vote doesn't mean that I don't think otter is also a fine lynch. this is just personal preference. i don't think either wagon is Bad per se

i don't feel like changing my vote though


----------



## Eifie

kyeugh said:


> oh yeah.  i just remember making the read and did not recall the actual scumteam at all lmfao


I made the read and said it indicated Panini had been talking to a non-bfree in scumchat!

give me my cred!!

the read was totally a joke add-on to me already burying Panini but


----------



## Negrek

kyeugh said:


> btw we still have an hour left right.  why does it feel like we're in the last five minutes


We have an hour, and Butterfree's post even says she's open to giving extensions. :P


----------



## mewtini

rari_teh said:


> By the way I just clicked on page 64 and it seems people are agreeing with Seshas and me, so fuck it, *Ottercopter *is my final vote


tbh i'm vibing with otter well enough too but a lot has happened in 10 pages


----------



## kyeugh

wait no wasn't it because rnp calls her bfree.  i'm pretty sure that's the case
this is irrelevant but i'm dreading re-reading which is what i'm supposed to be doing rn


----------



## Eifie

I think it's 4-4 ILS-Otter with Mawile's vote but I'm very confused about my count now

maybe we should look into one of those bots for counting bolded votes


----------



## rari_teh

Eifie said:


> (just a note that this was already in my votecount because I thought rari was already voting otter. maybe they weren't. idk.)


Pressure had made me unvote before, now I unvoted my unvote, if one can say that

I’ll start writing my big post bc there’s only one hour left; I can catch up during n1 if that’s the case…


----------



## Panini

mewtini said:


> what about the fact that ILS has visited to cast suspicion and subsequently disappeared multiple times, when otter has at least held conversations with ppl


But like
None of the conversations Otter has had have struck me as particularly substantial, I think if we're talking about play outside of this one incident neither ILS /not/ Otter have presented anything over surface level takes and the play inside the incident is more likely to be indicative due to the pressure (or lack of) faking reactions


----------



## kyeugh

i miss mu's autorefresh feature so much too
i keep refreshing but i'm anchored to like some random post halfway up the page so now i refresh by clicking the post number of the newest post i can see


----------



## Boquise

Ottercopter said:


> Yep! Day phases are so long... Although yeah, fair point, early voting for a lynching definitely felt more suspicious than early abstaining, which didn't really seem off to me until days later when I'm trying to find things to make note of that people haven't already said.
> Starting to think that's a worse habit than I initially thought it would be, heh.





Boquise said:


> This is to me good thoughts and all but the post kinda breaks the immersion I had of the post I commented as "this makes this so hard". In that post, it felt coming from someone who was unsure how to play/contribute/get a grip on the game whereas here it feels like a firm grip.
> 
> I am sorry if this is disheartening you Otter. I dont mean to be a critic ):


Fishing this up from the abyss.


----------



## mewtini

can someone tell me/pitch their reasons for switching votes, because i'm still gut-feeling sticking with ILS


----------



## Panini

kyeugh said:


> oh yeah.  i just remember making the read and did not recall the actual scumteam at all lmfao


I think though the context in this situation is different because the discrepancy is between your two completely different names rather than like a full username and a slight abbrev


----------



## Keldeo

Panini, any thoughts on the current wagons?


----------



## mewtini

mewtini said:


> can someone tell me/pitch their reasons for switching votes, because i'm still gut-feeling sticking with ILS


is it the negrek switch? as of rn i still am more scared of losing inno!otter but ... well i guess there's a bit of time left, it really does feel like the last 5 minutes


----------



## kyeugh

Panini said:


> I think though the context in this situation is different because the discrepancy is between your two completely different names rather than like a full username and a slight abbrev


yeah it def is, i wasn't really being fully serious about the entire thing
it seemed very doubtful to me that it would turn out they actually accidentally slipped like that.  but thinking of how a similar thing arose in that game was like a brain blast moment hahahaha


----------



## kyeugh

mewtini said:


> is it the negrek switch? as of rn i still am more scared of losing inno!otter but ... well i guess there's a bit of time left, it really does feel like the last 5 minutes


yeah i think people just want to keep the wagons even?  not 100%
you must wait 12 seconds before performing this action


----------



## Eifie

@Ottercopter @I liek Squirtles 

if you're online before the day ends pls try to pop in the thread because you're both in danger of being lynched!


----------



## Panini

Keldeo said:


> Panini, any thoughts on the current wagons?


I think most of the time here I go ottercopter over ILS still but I am sitting in a Safeway parking lot and need to drive home like, now, so I'm questioning if I feel confident enough that Ottercopter wolf fumbled over normal fumble because I might not be on again


----------



## kyeugh

Eifie said:


> @Ottercopter @I liek Squirtles
> 
> if you're online before the day ends pls try to pop in the thread because you're both in danger of being lynched!


----------



## Keldeo

kyeugh said:


> yeah i think people just want to keep the wagons even?  not 100%
> you must wait 12 seconds before performing this action


If the options are Otter and ILS, I honestly don't have a strong opinion, could probably see both ways. So I'm hashtag keeping the wagons close.

I don't think the "no one is defending Odie" read exists any more, which... still not entirely sure why people were against it. But it doesn't really matter maybe?


----------



## Boquise

kyeugh said:


> i miss mu's autorefresh feature so much too
> i keep refreshing but i'm anchored to like some random post halfway up the page so now i refresh by clicking the post number of the newest post i can see


man
I didnt know there was an auto refresh on mu. I am always stuck at some random post.

and I was a mod there once.

gives you perspective


----------



## Butterfree

For the record I don't want to extend the day in this game, we've had enough posts for D1 Jesus Christ

SUUUUUPERSTAR


----------



## mewtini

Keldeo said:


> which... still not entirely sure why people were against it.


just didn't see the point of it/it didn't seem useful p much, because i figured that even if they were mafia it didn't really matter since they're nonexistent. especially when there were feelings about other people


----------



## kyeugh

Keldeo said:


> If the options are Otter and ILS, I honestly don't have a strong opinion, could probably see both ways. So I'm hashtag keeping the wagons close.
> 
> I don't think the "no one is defending Odie" read exists any more, which... still not entirely sure why people were against it. But it doesn't really matter maybe?


honestly a lot of this debate is kind of unclear to me bc there seems to be a sense of "i don't want to kill people who want to play the game" prevailing but also it like... really does not feel like that is the actual reason any of this is happening


----------



## Eifie

Boquise said:


> man
> I didnt know there was an auto refresh on mu. I am always stuck at some random post.
> 
> and I was a mod there once.
> 
> gives you perspective
> View attachment 391


you once banned rythm from the server because you didn't know how to decrease its volume

did you really think you knew all of MU's features :p


----------



## mewtini

kyeugh said:


> "i don't want to kill people who want to play the game"


idk if this is referring in part to me but this isn't really my motivation


----------



## Boquise

Panini said:


> I think though the context in this situation is different because the discrepancy is between your two completely different names rather than like a full username and a slight abbrev


I am sorry Panini, but I am scum reading you currently because of stuff like this tbh


----------



## Eifie

kyeugh said:


> honestly a lot of this debate is kind of unclear to me bc there seems to be a sense of "i don't want to kill people who want to play the game" prevailing but also it like... really does not feel like that is the actual reason any of this is happening


I think that was only me and Keldeo?


----------



## kyeugh

mewtini said:


> idk if this is referring in part to me but this isn't really my motivation


it's not really, but it seemed to be the motivation for the rnp vote over the ils vote, the motivation for the odie vote over the anything else vote, etc


----------



## Boquise

Eifie said:


> you once banned rythm from the server because you didn't know how to decrease its volume
> 
> did you really think you knew all of MU's features :p


i have you know that i am the reason we have certain features after my mod tenure tbqh

i am a man of action tbqfh. A blunt hammer tbh.


----------



## kyeugh

Eifie said:


> I think that was only me and Keldeo?





Negrek said:


> No, that's accurate. If lynching either is equivalent in terms of information gained, I'd rather go for the person who doesn't appear to have any interest in playing.


----------



## mewtini

Eifie said:


> I think that was only me and Keldeo?





kyeugh said:


> it's not really, but it seemed to be the motivation for the rnp vote over the ils vote, the motivation for the odie vote over the anything else vote, etc


cool, thanks. sorry - wanted to clear it up just in case, because i did briefly mention sympathy for otter/i know i've been talking a lot so


----------



## Keldeo

Boquise said:


> I am sorry Panini, but I am scum reading you currently because of stuff like this tbh


She has consistently seemed like... "timewarping" / discussing stuff that's adjacent to the current thrust of the thread

Which might be because of time, idk I don't want to get on her case for playing the game in a Safeway parking lot, but it sticks out to me as well

I think an ISO might maybe make it clearer


----------



## I liek Squirtles

Eifie said:


> @Ottercopter @I liek Squirtles
> 
> if you're online before the day ends pls try to pop in the thread because you're both in danger of being lynched!


God I try to keep up with the thread and suddenly there's more things @_@ speed reading time


----------



## Keldeo

And Here He Comes Now!


----------



## kyeugh

I liek Squirtles said:


> God I try to keep up with the thread and suddenly there's more things @_@ speed reading time


bro you have posted not.  you are going to lose life


----------



## Eifie

He Arrives!


----------



## kyeugh

btw is there a reason flora/stryke are kinda skirting under the rug here?  is it ils/otter bc they're the ones who reacted weirdly to vm's thing?


----------



## Panini

Okay I'm just gonna park on *Odie_pie *and depart and try to make it back to my apartment by EOD. Sorry it's not terribly useful but on the off chance Otter/ILS pop up last minute and say something that'd change my mind I don't want to make it any more difficult


----------



## Eifie

Keldeo said:


> And Here He Comes Now!





Eifie said:


> He Arrives!





kyeugh said:


> bro you have posted not.  you are going to lose life


two kinds of people


----------



## Boquise

Keldeo said:


> She has consistently seemed like... "timewarping" / discussing stuff that's adjacent to the current thrust of the thread
> 
> Which might be because of time, idk I don't want to get on her case for playing the game in a Safeway parking lot, but it sticks out to me as well
> 
> I think an ISO might maybe make it clearer


I have been reading her closely and 9/10 of her posts are commenting on things that are really not moving the thread to anywhere. I dont really want to lynch her because I want to see more from her, but yeah


----------



## mewtini

kyeugh said:


> btw is there a reason flora/stryke are kinda skirting under the rug here?  is it ils/otter bc they're the ones who reacted weirdly to vm's thing?


flora is totally inactive (hasn't posted since pre-flavorspec) and tbh i just didn't figure out enough about stryke to make a decision. also i felt good enough about ils/rnp being relatively safe choices so i didn't feel like going out on a limb to make cases for stryke bc they seemed classic inactive


----------



## mewtini

mewtini said:


> flora is totally inactive (hasn't posted since pre-flavorspec) and tbh i just didn't figure out enough about stryke to make a decision. also i felt good enough about ils/rnp being relatively safe choices so i didn't feel like going out on a limb to make cases for stryke bc they seemed classic inactive


i did bring up flora a few times as a prospective lynch if the ils/rnp boats both sunk, i just see her as identical to an odie lynch so it was kind of a bland but fine possibility. but then no one else mentioned flora really so


----------



## kyeugh

ok, makes sense.  i'm glad that actually just checks out immediately lmao


----------



## Herbe

Keldeo's "And Here He Comes Now!" just reminded me of this and I felt it would be a disservice to not post it


----------



## Keldeo

(Flora uses they/them!)


----------



## Panini

Boquise said:


> I am sorry Panini, but I am scum reading you currently because of stuff like this tbh


Boq please smh
I don't know if I can take another rivalry game


----------



## mewtini

Keldeo said:


> (Flora uses they/them!)


thanks, sorry! totally forgot


----------



## Butterfree

Okay, here's some vote counts for you all:



Spoiler: Full vote history



Seshas votes kyeugh (#57)
Eifie votes Keldeo (#58)
Herbe votes abstain (#59)
mewtini votes abstain (#63)
Keldeo votes Eifie (#65)
Vipera Magnifica votes JackPK (#74)
Herbe votes JackPK (#77)
Mist1422 votes Keldeo (#81)
M&F votes JackPK (#88)
Seshas unvotes (#117)
Keldeo votes Mr. Ultracool (#125)
Herbe unvotes (#128)
Serimachi votes abstain (#186)
Keldeo votes Boquise (#233)
rari_teh votes abstain (#254)
Mr. Ultracool votes abstain (#488)
Eifie votes Odie_Pie (#513)
Herbe votes Odie_Pie (#518)
kyeugh votes Seshas (#543)
kokorico votes Keldeo (#612)
kyeugh unvotes (#617)
Seshas votes Ottercopter (#649)
rari_teh votes Ottercopter (#680)
M&F votes Eifie (#732)
rari_teh unvotes (#781)
Eifie votes Boquise (#929)
Keldeo votes Odie_pie (#1009)
mewtini votes I liek Squirtles (#1092)
Boquise votes I liek Squirtles (#1141)
Eifie unvotes (#1155)
Eifie votes Ottercopter (#1181)
Negrek votes RedneckPhoenix (#1186)
Herbe votes I liek Squirtles (#1211)
kyeugh votes Ottercopter (#1228)
Keldeo votes I liek Squirtles (#1254)
Mawile votes I liek Squirtles (#1256)
Negrek votes I liek Squirtles (#1258)
Keldeo votes Ottercopter (#1262)
Boquise votes Ottercopter (#1263)
rari_teh votes Ottercopter (#1275)
Panini votes Odie_pie (#1321)



Active votes:
Boquise votes Ottercopter (#1263)
Eifie votes Ottercopter (#1181)
Herbe votes I liek Squirtles (#1211)
Keldeo votes Ottercopter (#1262)
kokorico votes Keldeo (#612)
kyeugh votes Ottercopter (#1228)
M&F votes Eifie (#732)
Mawile votes I liek Squirtles (#1256)
mewtini votes I liek Squirtles (#1092)
Mist1422 votes Keldeo (#81)
Mr. Ultracool votes abstain (#488)
Negrek votes I liek Squirtles (#1258)
Panini votes Odie_pie (#1321)
rari_teh votes Ottercopter (#1275)
Serimachi votes abstain (#186)
Seshas votes Ottercopter (#649)
Vipera Magnifica votes JackPK (#74)

Vote counts:
*Ottercopter* (6) (Boquise, Eifie, Keldeo, kyeugh, rari_teh, Seshas)
*I liek Squirtles* (4) (Herbe, Mawile, mewtini, Negrek)
*Keldeo* (2) (kokorico, Mist1422)
*abstain* (2) (Mr. Ultracool, Serimachi)
*Eifie* (1) (M&F)
*Odie_pie* (1) (Panini)
*[JackPK]* (1) (Vipera Magnifica)


----------



## kyeugh

god bless you butter "dragon" free


----------



## Eifie

well there sure were some votes I didn't know about


----------



## Boquise

Panini said:


> Boq please smh
> I don't know if I can take another rivalry game


----------



## mewtini

the jackpk vote i'm. lol throwback


----------



## Herbe

i know some of the parked votes on like keldeo and eifie are probably just ppl forgetting they voted some 500 posts ago, but it still makes me go Hm


----------



## kyeugh

Herbe said:


> i know some of the parked votes on like keldeo and eifie are probably just ppl forgetting they voted some 500 posts ago, but it still makes me go Hm


same mood worm hat brain


----------



## Keldeo

I don't think people are giving Stryke/Flora passes for bad reasons. I think they're just under the radar because they haven't done anything that attracted attention? Which is maybe a tautology.

Stryke seems like he was in Resistance and Flora immediately believed Eifie's masons claim with me, are the things I remember that they've done


----------



## Eifie

Herbe said:


> i know some of the parked votes on like keldeo and eifie are probably just ppl forgetting they voted some 500 posts ago, but it still makes me go Hm


hehe I was vaguely wondering a while ago if butterfree likes the kind of roles where the person you're voting at the end of the day dies that night


----------



## Eifie

now that my science has gotten somewhere I kind of want off this wagon but I don't know where I want on


----------



## kyeugh

Keldeo said:


> I don't think people are giving Stryke/Flora passes for bad reasons. I think they're just under the radar because they haven't done anything that attracted attention? Which is maybe a tautology.
> 
> Stryke seems like he was in Resistance and Flora immediately believed Eifie's masons claim with me, are the things I remember that they've done


i kind of feel like flora is a worse vote than equally inactive players because they're usually this quiet iirc.  which is :/ but that is like all the meta i have on them so hm
was stryke a spy in that game?  i already don't remember


----------



## Stryke

Idk man I just never say anything when I play, I like to leave the theorizing to you guys for the most part because I am extremely unconfident in my own mafia abilities lol. If you have any questions for me that might help to put your mind at ease then just ask, I'll be happy to answer (maybe not atm though bc i have to eat now), but i just usually dont say much unprompted


----------



## rari_teh

rari’s bigass post part I  (pages 42 to 52)



mewtini said:


> (by the way was there real discussion of protecting [Vipera], if only for verification's sake?)


No, there wasn’t. As far as I remember, I just said I hoped a doctor protected him at night, and nobody else touched the issue.



Keldeo said:


> @rari_teh, what makes you think that kyeugh is town? Also, can I get a quick summary of your reads so far, I feel like you've been pretty present and transparent but also you've changed your mind on things so it's hard for me to get a full picture of where you are right now.


I will write a summary, but maybe it won’t be ready before d2 lol



Keldeo said:


> Maybe talk to me more about my rari take? idk. My really awful read is that rari has outside communication with someone because they've said "RNP" and "qva" when I... don't think anyone else has? Maybe you did?


By Arceus, no! People have been calling Kyeugh “qva” since pretty much the beginning and I deduced RNP was RedneckPhoenix because someone (Eifie?) listed them as somebody who hadn’t posted yet (this was in the page-20’s); looking at the CSV I’m keeping, the only user who matched the acronym was RedneckPhoenix



mewtini said:


> this is the paraphrased pm that emmy posted:
> 
> 
> 
> IndigoEmmy" said:
> 
> 
> 
> I am yet another Mysterious Informant. My power is Expospeak, and I can tell that there are magic doctors and Nanomachine using doctors. The two sides don't get along.
> 
> 
> 
> but it doesn't really seem to match her grammatical style which made me briefly go into Conspirator Mode and wonder if she typed it herself but then again she might've just been really careful? lol
Click to expand...

That had indeed stricken me as odd as well, but reading again I realised what must’ve happened. Emmy didn’t write that line indeed, who did it was _Butterfree_. She just changed the yous and yours to Is and mies. Her role PM must read:



> Your role is Mysterious Informant. Your power is Expospeak, and you can tell that there are magic doctors and Nanomachine using doctors. The two sides don't get along.


That would match perfectly the tone of my role PM, at least.

Am I right, @IndigoEmmy ?



Keldeo said:


> The other alternate possibility that I haven't thought about that much is that she's mafia and also a Mysterious Informant, I guess?


Maybe I’m being dense, but that doesn’t make sense to me at all. What would a mafia MI have to gain by sharing their secret with the town?



M&F said:


> we sure didn't continue the cop cover thing for very long, huh?


Nyet. I wonder if any genuine cops gave their hypo.



Eifie said:


> I had double digit notifications when I woke up and half of them were Keldeo haha-ing my posts


Off-topic, but that’s why I love the English language. You can verb any noun or noun any verb; everybody will understand and nobody will bat an eye.



Eifie said:


> also @rari_teh nooo don't say lesson learned, I appreciate all your posts. please just post how you feel like posting. it's our job to read you correctly.


I feel like it’s also my job to get my point across correctly. If people are misreading me, it’s also kind of my fault.



Eifie said:


> Mist1422 is my n0 green check.


Wait, did you just roleclaim as cop or is it just hypo??



Boquise said:


> Why did you abstain from wanting to say who you were/are suspicious of?


I was suspicious of Keldeo at that moment. Many long pages later, when most of my suspicions on him waned, I talked about it.



Eifie said:


> the reason I prefer lynching the person who's probably never going to post is that there's probably no chance that they can do anything that will make us able to read them


On the other hand, if Odie_Pie is town, the mafia will have to kill her off at some point as well…



Boquise said:


> Dumb read of me maybe, but imo rari's posts have been very game related and analytical, aka looking like they know their shit. So this question kinda caught me off guard. I guess some would see it as faking a dumb tell but meh. I feel like they'd ask scum chat this instead of asking it here, especially if they are AS new at the game as it looks like here. So town.
> 
> 
> Impressive posts with that in mind tbh


I gotta say I’m really flattered rn :3
If anyone missed, yes, this is my first time playing Mafia.



Keldeo said:


> Yeah, I was wondering how much mafia Rari has watched before, since they came up with, for example, the infiltrator idea out of nothing? Because they said this is their first game they've played, I agree that I don't think asking about "VT" was, like, a fake dumbtell.


I’ve never even watched mafia. This is literally my first experience with the game ever – the only thing I’ve seen from outside is the rules post in this very forum, back when I was assessing whether I’d join this game. I’d say the infiltrator idea came exactly from my lack of experience – since people were talking about how anything could happen (and anyone who’s hung around at the main site for long enough know that Butterfree likes good plot twists), I figured that a sheep in wolf’s clothing wasn’t too farfetched of a possibility.


----------



## Keldeo

kyeugh said:


> i kind of feel like flora is a worse vote than equally inactive players because they're usually this quiet iirc.  which is :/ but that is like all the meta i have on them so hm
> was stryke a spy in that game?  i already don't remember


That makes sense re: Flora

Stryke was Resistance/not a spy/innocent. But I don't remember how he was in memefest as mafia and he might have been similar

Waiting with bated breath for ILS's catchup commentary


----------



## Boquise

Stryke said:


> Idk man I just never say anything when I play, I like to leave the theorizing to you guys for the most part because I am extremely unconfident in my own mafia abilities lol. If you have any questions for me that might help to put your mind at ease then just ask, I'll be happy to answer (maybe not atm though bc i have to eat now), but i just usually dont say much unprompted


i feel awful for going hmm but you pop in right when eyes are being cast towards you :(

have you been reading the game?


----------



## mewtini

rari_teh said:


> looking at the CSV I’m keeping


holy shit lol


rari_teh said:


> That had indeed stricken me as odd as well, but reading again I realised what must’ve happened. Emmy didn’t write that line indeed, who did it was _Butterfree_. She just changed the yous and yours to Is and mies. Her role PM must read:


thanks, good take. idk why i didn't think of that, i just thought "ok, so she's forced to paraphrase"


rari_teh said:


> Wait, did you just roleclaim as cop or is it just hypo??


hypo as of now


----------



## Eifie

(@rari_teh it was me repeating my cop cover, which could totally be real btw.)


----------



## mewtini

Boquise said:


> i feel awful for going hmm but you pop in right when eyes are being cast towards you :(
> 
> have you been reading the game?


not a judgment either way but stryke said earlier that he'd been reading the game in near-real time, but was lurking


----------



## Stryke

Boquise said:


> i feel awful for going hmm but you pop in right when eyes are being cast towards you :(
> 
> have you been reading the game?


The whole time


----------



## Boquise

rari_teh said:


> I was suspicious of Keldeo at that moment. Many long pages later, when most of my suspicions on him waned, I talked about it.


I see. But why did you not want to say it right away?


----------



## kyeugh

rari_teh said:


> I was suspicious of Keldeo at that moment. Many long pages later, when most of my suspicions on him waned, I talked about it.


i feel like this dodges the question tbh

man idk i really want to feel good about you rari, it seems like everyone except me seems to be leaning town on you, but truly it seems like every time you make a post it just doesn't improve my understanding of anything and i can't help but get bad vibes from that
it's not even bc you're explaining badly or anything... i think some of your posts back when i was pressing on you were sort of unclear, but since then i think you've been fairly straightforward, it just doesn't seem to me like there is actually that much being said.  am i going crazy


----------



## Eifie

there's still 34 minutes left but I'm scared :(


----------



## Ottercopter

Oh god I didn't realize the deadline wasn't EST either, hi. I have returned from life stuff. *i liek squirtles *because I don't see any other way to survive, and I can see why people are suspicious of him even if I'm not quite convinced it's lynch worthy on just day 1.

Seshas's MI claim bothers me more than IndigoEmmy's because I'm not sure how we can verify it. Whereas if Negrek and VM are both telling the truth about their roles, we might be able to learn about IE's claim about the nanomachine vs magic doctor thing if VM takes over their role tomorrow. But I don't think it's damning, just something worth keeping in mind? And I agree that Rari_teh seems quick to pounce. Nothing really new here and nothing that would deserve (or recieve at this point) an immediate lynch train, but it's something....?

Uhhh I'm gonna skim their posts again, I just thought I should at least saying SOMETHING since we're down to half an hour and I dunno how long that'll take.

The one who was worried about discouraging me, you're fine. I don't feel upset about anything, I just wanted to explain my behavior so it might make a bit more sense.


----------



## Boquise

Stryke said:


> The whole time


that makes me feel better then

just throw out your thoughts on anything, like the hot topics (squirtle, otter) or anything else that has stricken your fancy. Dont worry. I am bad at mafia. It is okay tbh.


----------



## M&F

blargh, is the day actually ending?? because the last thing I read today was on like page 43 and let me tell you,


----------



## mewtini

kyeugh said:


> man idk i really want to feel good about you rari, it seems like everyone except me seems to be leaning town on you, but truly it seems like every time you make a post it just doesn't improve my understanding of anything and i can't help but get bad vibes from that
> it's not even bc you're explaining badly or anything... i think some of your posts back when i was pressing on you were sort of unclear, but since then i think you've been fairly straightforward, it just doesn't seem to me like there is actually that much being said.  am i going crazy


not to gaslight/i'm sorry for once again bodyshielding them, it just reads like novice real-time spec to me still. maybe it's bc i think i'd be playing a similar game if i weren't just forcing myself to talk more and be open about my takes (exactly bc i want to avoid seeming thin and drawing suspicion)


----------



## kyeugh

Ottercopter said:


> Seshas's MI claim bothers me more than IndigoEmmy's because I'm not sure how we can verify it. Whereas if Negrek and VM are both telling the truth about their roles, we might be able to learn about IE's claim about the nanomachine vs magic doctor thing if VM takes over their role tomorrow. But I don't think it's damning, just something worth keeping in mind? And I agree that Rari_teh seems quick to pounce. Nothing really new here and nothing that would deserve (or recieve at this point) an immediate lynch train, but it's something....?


lmfao these are like the main thoughts i have had this game and now i want to move my vote


----------



## mewtini

M&F said:


> blargh, is the day actually ending?? because the last thing I read today was on like page 43 and let me tell you,


tbh if you want a skimmable version i think everyone started dragging out old receipts anyway in their summaries from like page 50 or 55 onward, i would start there and go backward if you have time idk


----------



## RedneckPhoenix

yeah really like i was gonna catch up earlier and by the time i did there was another 20 entire pages of posts so i don't really care


----------



## Eifie

what if I indulge @Negrek

*RedneckPhoenix*


----------



## Eifie

... lol

i have to wait another 23 seconds blah blah


----------



## rari_teh

Boquise said:


> I see. But why did you not want to say it right away?


Because it was more of a gut feeling than anything. Since I really didn’t have a good explanation for it, I decided it was better to not risk it.



kyeugh said:


> i feel like this dodges the question tbh
> 
> man idk i really want to feel good about you rari, it seems like everyone except me seems to be leaning town on you, but truly it seems like every time you make a post it just doesn't improve my understanding of anything and i can't help but get bad vibes from that
> it's not even bc you're explaining badly or anything... i think some of your posts back when i was pressing on you were sort of unclear, but since then i think you've been fairly straightforward, it just doesn't seem to me like there is actually that much being said.  am i going crazy


I really don’t understand the bone you have to pick with me, lol. How am I dodging a question I answered pages and pages ago


----------



## RedneckPhoenix

normally i check for new posts every hour or so but in this game i hadn't even woken up yet and there were already like 20 pages.


----------



## mewtini

kyeugh said:


> lmfao these are like the main thoughts i have had this game and now i want to move my vote


can you talk a bit about why, i think a misread and getting rid of seshas early would also be a major loss if it's incorrect, and MI reads seem like they could literally be the phrase seshas gave (which sounds like bfree to me, anyway)


----------



## Keldeo

Ottercopter said:


> Seshas's MI claim bothers me more than IndigoEmmy's because I'm not sure how we can verify it. Whereas if Negrek and VM are both telling the truth about their roles, we might be able to learn about IE's claim about the nanomachine vs magic doctor thing if VM takes over their role tomorrow. But I don't think it's damning, just something worth keeping in mind? And I agree that Rari_teh seems quick to pounce. Nothing really new here and nothing that would deserve (or recieve at this point) an immediate lynch train, but it's something....?


I want to say this is like, pure in a "legitimately has nothing to do with what the thread is currently talking about" way

But it's also like mostly shade huh


----------



## Boquise

kyeugh said:


> i feel like this dodges the question tbh
> 
> man idk i really want to feel good about you rari, it seems like everyone except me seems to be leaning town on you, but truly it seems like every time you make a post it just doesn't improve my understanding of anything and i can't help but get bad vibes from that
> it's not even bc you're explaining badly or anything... i think some of your posts back when i was pressing on you were sort of unclear, but since then i think you've been fairly straightforward, it just doesn't seem to me like there is actually that much being said.  am i going crazy


alrightie lets have a workshop tbh

lets say rari is scum
this is apparently her first game
so okay we'll say she is getting coached in mafia chat on how to approach the game.

Why doesnt she ask her teammates what VT means? Like, that is such a snap question and it feels more natural to ask it where you feel the most comfortable, aka scum chat. That is how I reckon.

So, why do you think scum rari would pose that question here?


----------



## mewtini

mewtini said:


> MI reads


*MI intel, rather, and seshas volunteered it when it seemed relevant (and rn i believe them that the only withheld info was their actual role title)


----------



## kyeugh

mewtini said:


> can you talk a bit about why, i think a misread and getting rid of seshas early would also be a major loss if it's incorrect, and MI reads seem like they could literally be the phrase seshas gave (which sounds like bfree to me, anyway)


i mean to be honest... i am kind of done talking about the seshas thing.  sorry if that seems curt, it's not my intention, but like...  i'm fine reluctantly putting him in my town pile for the moment and just moving on
but the fact that otter has reservations about both seshas AND rari, the two people that i feel like only i have been wary about, is pocketing me pretty bad rn


----------



## Keldeo

I think Rari has done some things that are shifty and I can understand why their like contradictions seem weird to you, kyeugh, but especially taking into account that this is their first game I think they've been really towny.


----------



## Eifie

lol I mean I guess I'm fine here since RNP doesn't care

@RedneckPhoenix is there like, anything at all you wanna say about the game though?


----------



## mewtini

kyeugh said:


> i mean to be honest... i am kind of done talking about the seshas thing.  sorry if that seems curt, it's not my intention, but like...  i'm fine reluctantly putting him in my town pile for the moment and just moving on
> but the fact that otter has reservations about both seshas AND rari, the two people that i feel like only i have been wary about, is pocketing me pretty bad rn


oh did i just misread? i'm accidentally maybe just skimming everything since we're at the 30 min mark haha. sorry for pressing you, i thought you were about to change your vote to seshas


----------



## mewtini

ok i'm back to say: i reread your post and i'm still confused. who was "i want to move my vote" referring to


----------



## Boquise

RedneckPhoenix said:


> normally i check for new posts every hour or so but in this game i hadn't even woken up yet and there were already like 20 pages.


----------



## kyeugh

Boquise said:


> alrightie lets have a workshop tbh
> 
> lets say rari is scum
> this is apparently her first game
> so okay we'll say she is getting coached in mafia chat on how to approach the game.
> 
> Why doesnt she ask her teammates what VT means? Like, that is such a snap question and it feels more natural to ask it where you feel the most comfortable, aka scum chat. That is how I reckon.
> 
> So, why do you think scum rari would pose that question here?


bc it makes them look inexperienced which is clearly working in their favor rn?  maybe wolfchat told them what it meant but told them to ask in the thread anyway?  idk it doesn't really seem outside the realm of possibility to me
i'm not outright scumreading rari right now, mostly bc i'm not really fussed enough about it to make it an issue again when most people don't seem sold on it and there are bigger wagons to be worrying about, but it's just hard for me not to get weird vibes i guess
definitely some of the stuff they do is very towny!  undoubtedly, i can see where everyone is coming from.  but like... i just can't shake the feeling no matter how i go about reading their posts honestly.  idk.
i don't really want to derail right now, that wasn't my intention in bringing it up :x but i can talk about it more if you guys think it's a good time ig


----------



## kyeugh

mewtini said:


> ok i'm back to say: i reread your post and i'm still confused. who was "i want to move my vote" referring to


to Not-Otter, bc she is pocketing me rn by expressing doubt in the same people i feel weird about (and feel isolated about feeling weird about).  but i have not moved my vote, bc idk who i would actually move it to, and also this doesn't matter _that_ much but it's definitely pulling at me a little lol. i'm just acknowledging aloud that i'm having these thoughts


----------



## RedneckPhoenix

@Eifie i'm roleplaying


----------



## rari_teh

mewtini said:


> ok i'm back to say: i reread your post and i'm still confused. who was "i want to move my vote" referring to


In my understanding, she wants to move her vote to save Otter from the gallows


----------



## Eifie

I think trying to speed read the thread is probably a waste of time rn @I liek Squirtles


----------



## Eifie

RedneckPhoenix said:


> @Eifie i'm roleplaying


gamer


----------



## mewtini

kyeugh said:


> maybe wolfchat told them what it meant but told them to ask in the thread anyway?


gotcha. like honestly i understand other things you've brought up about rari but i don't think they've ever made truly horrific takes and then had to go "omg omg they're new :((". i have consistently felt that they have kept a very even vibe, honestly, even if that vibe is a bit high-energy, so idk if i'm sold on the idea that they're faking being new when they've played like it all game


----------



## Ottercopter

Eifie said:


> I think trying to speed read the thread is probably a waste of time rn @I liek Squirtles


This is the conclusion I'm reaching too, lol.


----------



## Eifie

idk what to do having my vote on RNP is useless


----------



## mewtini

also @I liek Squirtles my main post with my Main Thoughts and Concerns about you are in 1090, at least that's one post instead of like, hundreds


----------



## Boquise

kyeugh said:


> bc it makes them look inexperienced which is clearly working in their favor rn?  maybe wolfchat told them what it meant but told them to ask in the thread anyway?  idk it doesn't really seem outside the realm of possibility to me
> i'm not outright scumreading rari right now, mostly bc i'm not really fussed enough about it to make it an issue again when most people don't seem sold on it and there are bigger wagons to be worrying about, but it's just hard for me not to get weird vibes i guess
> definitely some of the stuff they do is very towny!  undoubtedly, i can see where everyone is coming from.  but like... i just can't shake the feeling no matter how i go about reading their posts honestly.  idk.
> i don't really want to derail right now, that wasn't my intention in bringing it up :x but i can talk about it more if you guys think it's a good time ig


nah is good.

That could be a possibility. But that would require some shrewd ultimate wifomers in the scum chat. Think Occam's razor. That they play on their inexperience (which is a real factor atm), yet manage to haul out good analytical posts and then spice it with a "whats vt".

I dont think I have seen a new player employ such tactics and I dont see why the scum team would even suggest that question. The only reason we are talking about that VT thing is, iirc, because I town read Rari for that. So I guess you could make a rari/me scum team. Here comes the wifom tbh


----------



## kyeugh

mewtini said:


> gotcha. like honestly i understand other things you've brought up about rari but i don't think they've ever made truly horrific takes and then had to go "omg omg they're new :((". i have consistently felt that they have kept a very even vibe, honestly, even if that vibe is a bit high-energy, so idk if i'm sold on the idea that they're faking being new when they've played like it all game


i don't really know that i'm Sold on it either but i'm still kind of shook by the juxtaposition of the v insightful infiltrator theory and not knowing what a VT is, even after their explanation
ngl i feel really bad for derailing the thread about this twenty minutes before eod and also rari i hope you don't think i dislike you or anything lol.  i hope that's not the tone i'm putting off here


Eifie said:


> idk what to do having my vote on RNP is useless


search your feelings


----------



## Butterfree

Spoiler: Full vote history



Seshas votes kyeugh (#57)
Eifie votes Keldeo (#58)
Herbe votes abstain (#59)
mewtini votes abstain (#63)
Keldeo votes Eifie (#65)
Vipera Magnifica votes JackPK (#74)
Herbe votes JackPK (#77)
Mist1422 votes Keldeo (#81)
M&F votes JackPK (#88)
Seshas unvotes (#117)
Keldeo votes Mr. Ultracool (#125)
Herbe unvotes (#128)
Serimachi votes abstain (#186)
Keldeo votes Boquise (#233)
rari_teh votes abstain (#254)
Mr. Ultracool votes abstain (#488)
Eifie votes Odie_Pie (#513)
Herbe votes Odie_Pie (#518)
kyeugh votes Seshas (#543)
kokorico votes Keldeo (#612)
kyeugh unvotes (#617)
Seshas votes Ottercopter (#649)
rari_teh votes Ottercopter (#680)
M&F votes Eifie (#732)
rari_teh unvotes (#781)
Eifie votes Boquise (#929)
Keldeo votes Odie_pie (#1009)
mewtini votes I liek Squirtles (#1092)
Boquise votes I liek Squirtles (#1141)
Eifie unvotes (#1155)
Eifie votes Ottercopter (#1181)
Negrek votes RedneckPhoenix (#1186)
Herbe votes I liek Squirtles (#1211)
kyeugh votes Ottercopter (#1228)
Keldeo votes I liek Squirtles (#1254)
Mawile votes I liek Squirtles (#1256)
Negrek votes I liek Squirtles (#1258)
Keldeo votes Ottercopter (#1262)
Boquise votes Ottercopter (#1263)
rari_teh votes Ottercopter (#1275)
Panini votes Odie_pie (#1321)
Ottercopter votes I liek squirtles (#1353)
Eifie votes RedneckPhoenix (#1360)



Active votes:
Boquise votes Ottercopter (#1263)
Eifie votes RedneckPhoenix (#1360)
Herbe votes I liek Squirtles (#1211)
Keldeo votes Ottercopter (#1262)
kokorico votes Keldeo (#612)
kyeugh votes Ottercopter (#1228)
M&F votes Eifie (#732)
Mawile votes I liek Squirtles (#1256)
mewtini votes I liek Squirtles (#1092)
Mist1422 votes Keldeo (#81)
Mr. Ultracool votes abstain (#488)
Negrek votes I liek Squirtles (#1258)
Ottercopter votes I liek Squirtles (#1353)
Panini votes Odie_pie (#1321)
rari_teh votes Ottercopter (#1275)
Seshas votes Ottercopter (#649)
Vipera Magnifica votes JackPK (#74)

Vote counts:
*Ottercopter* (5)
*I liek Squirtles* (5)
*Keldeo* (2)
*Eifie* (1)
*abstain* (1)
*Odie_pie* (1)
*RedneckPhoenix* (1)
*[JackPK]* (1)


----------



## RedneckPhoenix

look. i was given a role to play. i'm The Fool (which i feel is a little targetted tbh) and if i'm supposed to be stupid, then i'm stupid.


----------



## RedneckPhoenix

gonna play like a total dumbass, gonna throw out accusations almost at random, and i'm gonna have a worthless power. that's what i do


----------



## mewtini

kyeugh said:


> i don't really know that i'm Sold on it either but i'm still kind of shook by the juxtaposition of the v insightful infiltrator theory and not knowing what a VT is, even after their explanation


i'll let this die after this reply, but i still maintain that i've just gone and searched up mafia role lists just to be able to contribute while not knowing lingo


----------



## Eifie

RedneckPhoenix said:


> gonna play like a total dumbass, gonna throw out accusations almost at random, and i'm gonna have a worthless power. that's what i do


lmao rip


----------



## kyeugh

RedneckPhoenix said:


> look. i was given a role to play. i'm The Fool (which i feel is a little targetted tbh) and if i'm supposed to be stupid, then i'm stupid.


----------



## Keldeo

Eifie said:


> idk what to do having my vote on RNP is useless


idk what to do either. These wagons feel sticky.

Should I vote with you?


----------



## Eifie

Keldeo said:


> idk what to do either. These wagons feel sticky.
> 
> Should I vote with you?


I dunno I might go onto ILS


----------



## Keldeo

I'm cool with that I guess? I wish he gave thoughts man


----------



## Boquise

RedneckPhoenix said:


> look. i was given a role to play. i'm The Fool (which i feel is a little targetted tbh) and if i'm supposed to be stupid, then i'm stupid.


why are people outing themselves like this lol


----------



## I liek Squirtles

I am currently writing thoughts!! very sorry


----------



## kyeugh

i'm keeping my vote on otter rn to keep the wagons even but if y'all switch i'm switching to ils too bc that otter post is really getting to me lmfao


----------



## Eifie

btw qva is rising to one of my highest towns because of this EoD


----------



## mewtini

Eifie said:


> btw qva is rising to one of my highest towns because of this EoD


same.

poor ils.


----------



## Keldeo

Sorry ILS!! I don't mean to pressure you :(


----------



## Boquise

otter's last posts havent really swayed my mind so i am staying


----------



## RedneckPhoenix

hey remember that time i killed myself in your game eifie? fun times


----------



## rari_teh

I gotta say that the fact that people are thinking that I’m suspicious for being way too good for a rookie is really inflating my ego lol


----------



## Eifie

Boquise said:


> otter's last posts havent really swayed my mind so i am staying


I'm one of those people who tends to get reeeeally easily swayed by just the person who posted latest

I just feel a sense of genuine like "I want to help I just don't know how" coming from Ottercopter's posts and my heart goes out to it


----------



## Eifie

RedneckPhoenix said:


> hey remember that time i killed myself in your game eifie? fun times


it was a truly beautiful game


----------



## kyeugh

i don't really feel "swayed" so much as like, i feel kind of vindicated rn and i suddenly want to hear more from otter in a way that's not quite true of ils
if otter is scum i'm getting kind of spanked rn
jsut gonna bite the bullet tbh
*I liek Squirtles*


----------



## RedneckPhoenix

*rari_teh*

vanity is a terrible habit


----------



## Keldeo

Eifie said:


> btw qva is rising to one of my highest towns because of this EoD


I really loved her post about being pocketed by Otter


----------



## rari_teh

Just to recap, if we don’t manage to untie the votes, how is the lynch decided?


----------



## Eifie

rari_teh said:


> Just to recap, if we don’t manage to untie the votes, how is the lynch decided?


the tie is broken randomly


----------



## Boquise

Eifie said:


> I'm one of those people who tends to get reeeeally easily swayed by just the person who posted latest
> 
> I just feel a sense of genuine like "I want to help I just don't know how" coming from Ottercopter's posts and my heart goes out to it


yeah i understand that ):
it is the recency theory tbh


----------



## RedneckPhoenix

a cockfight in showdown with 6 metapod each


----------



## mewtini

does anyone know what the votecount is rn? going to go and count but scared i'll take too long


----------



## kyeugh

rari_teh said:


> Just to recap, if we don’t manage to untie the votes, how is the lynch decided?


i think it's random

hey isn't the fool, like.  another name for the alien.  i kind of want people to unvote rnp


----------



## Eifie

mewtini said:


> does anyone know what the votecount is rn? going to go and count but scared i'll take too long


I think 6-5 ILS-Otter


----------



## RedneckPhoenix

wonder if a votecount happened recently.


----------



## Herbe

t minus 10 minutes to eod, everybody


----------



## mewtini

RedneckPhoenix said:


> wonder if a votecount happened recently.


official was 9 minutes ago lol

thanks eif


----------



## Eifie

kyeugh said:


> i think it's random
> 
> hey isn't the fool, like.  another name for the alien.  i kind of want people to unvote rnp


it can be a lot of different roles

I have major doubts that he's an activated alien


----------



## RedneckPhoenix

trust me, you won't find my role through my flavor. not yet at least


----------



## I liek Squirtles

Ok SO

The reason why I popped in real quick in the VM post was because I was trying to post Something before getting killed off by being too inactive, but popping in to do a little thing still isn't . The pace of it all is honestly really fast and I've had a tough time assimilating it all because when I have thoughts things move onto something else and my thoughts feel a bit out of place.

At any rate, since there's not much time left in the day, Otter's post responding to where Sesha's derpclears me set off a few alarms for me, namely because they seemed to be trying to pull my name back into the ring of "not fully cleared" folks. There really hadn't been interaction between Seshas and myself (due to like, lack of posting on my part, sorry again), but I still think her suspicion was a little unfounded, I guess? not quite the word I'm looking for here


----------



## kyeugh

god i feel like i'm losing my mind right now


----------



## kyeugh

ngl i feel better about my ils vote now


----------



## Keldeo

I liek Squirtles said:


> Ok SO
> 
> The reason why I popped in real quick in the VM post was because I was trying to post Something before getting killed off by being too inactive, but popping in to do a little thing still isn't . The pace of it all is honestly really fast and I've had a tough time assimilating it all because when I have thoughts things move onto something else and my thoughts feel a bit out of place.
> 
> At any rate, since there's not much time left in the day, Otter's post responding to where Sesha's derpclears me set off a few alarms for me, namely because they seemed to be trying to pull my name back into the ring of "not fully cleared" folks. There really hadn't been interaction between Seshas and myself (due to like, lack of posting on my part, sorry again), but I still think her suspicion was a little unfounded, I guess? not quite the word I'm looking for here


Do you have thoughts about non-Otter people?


----------



## RedneckPhoenix

kyeugh said:


> god i feel like i'm losing my mind right now


damn, we gonna have to use a microscope to find it


----------



## kyeugh

RedneckPhoenix said:


> damn, we gonna have to use a microscope to find it


shut up fool


----------



## Boquise

man
i dont like that both squirtle and otter point fingers at each other smh


----------



## mewtini

I liek Squirtles said:


> Otter's post responding to where Sesha's derpclears me set off a few alarms for me, namely because they seemed to be trying to pull my name back into the ring of "not fully cleared" folks.


hm


----------



## RedneckPhoenix

one word insults are a sign of weakness in apes


----------



## mewtini

glad things aren't tied, i really don't feel like moving now


----------



## Eifie

ILS do you wanna roleclaim?


----------



## Keldeo

Eifie said:


> ILS do you wanna roleclaim?


@I liek Squirtles

*I liek Squirtles*


----------



## RedneckPhoenix

next person who reacts to one of my posts is getting voted


----------



## rari_teh

Eifie said:


> I think 6-5 ILS-Otter


It’s 6-4 ILS-Otter

Kyeugh changed her vote from Otter to ILS


----------



## RedneckPhoenix

*kyeugh*


----------



## Butterfree

Vote counts:
I liek Squirtles (7)
Ottercopter (3)
Keldeo (2)
Eifie (1)
abstain (1)
Odie_pie (1)
RedneckPhoenix (1)
kyeugh (1)
[JackPK] (1)


----------



## I liek Squirtles

I'm the magic doc that doesnt go along with Emmy's robot doc. If that seals my fate so be it. It's the truth


----------



## Eifie

RedneckPhoenix said:


> *kyeugh*


but I reacted first!!!


----------



## Keldeo

Oh, hmm, didn't know it wasn't tied. Still okay with that I think.


----------



## RedneckPhoenix

not what my screen says


----------



## I liek Squirtles

I'll vote *Ottercopter* to try and keep myself alive


----------



## kyeugh

dude PLEASE roleclaim


----------



## RedneckPhoenix

hey who wants to see a picture of my dog


----------



## Keldeo

I liek Squirtles said:


> I'm the magic doc that doesnt go along with Emmy's robot doc. If that seals my fate so be it. It's the truth


Uhhh jeez

Eifie do you know if the warring doctors were town in the last version?


----------



## mewtini

kyeugh said:


> dude PLEASE roleclaim


he did!!!


----------



## Boquise

I liek Squirtles said:


> I'm the magic doc that doesnt go along with Emmy's robot doc. If that seals my fate so be it. It's the truth


claim has been made


----------



## kyeugh

kyeugh said:


> dude PLEASE roleclaim


oh! you did already lmaoo


----------



## Eifie

Keldeo said:


> Uhhh jeez
> 
> Eifie do you know if the warring doctors were town in the last version?


no


----------



## qenya

Herbe said:


> i know some of the parked votes on like keldeo and eifie are probably just ppl forgetting they voted some 500 posts ago, but it still makes me go Hm


Yes hello this is me. I'm also still reading in near real time but yall are going too fast for me to keep up with the logic :( Gonna just *unvote* because I don't really get how you're deciding between ILS and ottercopter and either seems sufficiently inactive/nonparticipatory to be a non-awful choice.



Boquise said:


> I see. But why did you [rari_teh] not want to say it [that you scumread Keldeo] right away?


just want to say, as someone who was in a very similar position to rari_teh, a leading possibility is "I am new here and Keldeo is clearly part of the in-group, so I don't want to rock the boat without stronger evidence".

not that this is even relevant rn.


----------



## mewtini

welp.


----------



## Ottercopter

Uhhh crap, my role isn't as helpful as his (theoretically). Should I die instead? I can change my vote.


----------



## kyeugh

um um um!!! um!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


----------



## Eifie

I wrote a vote on ILS and just couldn't make myself pull the trigger

imo let him be for now and see if he gets counterclaimed tomorrow

I'm so sorry Rebecca

*Ottercopter*


----------



## mewtini

Ottercopter said:


> Uhhh crap, my role isn't as helpful as his (theoretically). Should I die instead? I can change my vote.


eep


----------



## Boquise

kokorico said:


> Yes hello this is me. I'm also still reading in near real time but yall are going too fast for me to keep up with the logic :( Gonna just *unvote* because I don't really get how you're deciding between ILS and ottercopter and either seems sufficiently inactive/nonparticipatory to be a non-awful choice.
> 
> 
> just want to say, as someone who was in a very similar position to rari_teh, a leading possibility is "I am new here and Keldeo is clearly part of the in-group, so I don't want to rock the boat without stronger evidence".
> 
> not that this is even relevant rn.


this is an acceptable reasoning that I can jive with tbh


----------



## Eifie

Ottercopter said:


> Uhhh crap, my role isn't as helpful as his (theoretically). Should I die instead? I can change my vote.


pls claim


----------



## rari_teh

Oh shit it’s gonna eeeeeeend!


----------



## Boquise

maybe we could vote panini tbh


----------



## Ottercopter

No, it's fine, I don't want the doctor killed. My role isn't that useful. I hope you all can look into this! 
*abstain*


----------



## Keldeo

kyeugh said:


> um um um!!! um!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


I kind of think both are town?!?


----------



## Eifie

Ottercopter said:


> No, it's fine, I don't want the doctor killed. My role isn't that useful. I hope you all can look into this!
> *abstain*


it's helpful if you tell us your role


----------



## I liek Squirtles

Ottercopter said:


> Uhhh crap, my role isn't as helpful as his (theoretically). Should I die instead? I can change my vote.


Please elaborate


----------



## mewtini

*ottercopter*


----------



## Boquise

*Panini*


----------



## kyeugh

*ottercopter*


----------



## Keldeo

Ottercopter said:


> No, it's fine, I don't want the doctor killed. My role isn't that useful. I hope you all can look into this!
> *abstain*


If you are dying you should claim fully


----------



## Eifie

*Panini*


----------



## Boquise

tho true that they not claiming is kinda scummy


----------



## Ottercopter

I don't know how!!! It's not quite a vanilla townie, it's just one where I'm supposed to get lynched. So mission accomplished?!


----------



## Herbe

What the fuck is happening I am barely keeping up with this


----------



## kyeugh

????????????????????????????????


----------



## Keldeo

Uhhhh what haha





Ottercopter said:


> I don't know how!!! It's not quite a vanilla townie, it's just one where I'm supposed to get lynched. So mission accomplished?!


----------



## mewtini

ok tbh im scared again *ils*


----------



## Boquise

Eifie said:


> *Panini*


what tbh


----------



## Eifie

*help*


----------



## Herbe

Ottercopter said:


> it's just one where I'm supposed to get lynched. So mission accomplished?!


WHAT


----------



## Mawile

Ottercopter said:


> I don't know how!!! It's not quite a vanilla townie, it's just one where I'm supposed to get lynched. So mission accomplished?!


PLEASE JUST CLAIM


----------



## Zori

I just got in
stuff is happening very quickly


----------



## Butterfree

*The day has ended. Please stay tuned for vote counts.*


----------



## Eifie

Boquise said:


> what tbh


i want off the wagons

Panini has done nothing

she parked on the 0-poster instead of choosing between two main wagons


----------



## Herbe

I am losing my fucking mind


----------



## Boquise

Ottercopter said:


> I don't know how!!! It's not quite a vanilla townie, it's just one where I'm supposed to get lynched. So mission accomplished?!


----------



## Butterfree

It's a strange, hectic day in Troperville.

First everyone worries maybe the dead body isn't _really_ dead at all, and proposes they should kill him again to make sure; then some people claim to have strange powers, or _very_ strange powers, and vigorously debate whether or not they were joking.

But finally, they settle on stringing up the absent *I liek Squirtles*, surely responsible for the dreadful murder of the probably-hopefully-dead *JackPK*. As they gather at his house, he awkwardly reminds them that actually, uh, he's a doctor, no mafia connections here.

So they turn around and instead bang on the door of the house opposite. *Ottercopter* answers the door, is very understanding, accepts her fate, and tells them helpfully as they're putting the noose around her neck that this is great actually because being lynched by a mob is exactly what she wanted.

The mob explodes into a confused panic. People want to lynch their Italian sandwiches maybe. Somewhere in the middle of it all, they just kind of grab *I liek Squirtles* and drag his feebly protesting self to the gallows. Accidentally.

An investigation of his house reveals it is very cute, and also he doesn't even have a phone, much less any secret mafia contacts. As the crowd disperses, each troper is pretty sure it was somebody else that hanged him.

*I liek Squirtles is dead. He was not mafia.

Please send in your night actions. The night will end on April 15th, 0:00 UTC (that's UTC, the Iceland time zone, the proper default timezone that all deadlines should be in).*

Final vote counts:
*I liek Squirtles* (5) (Herbe, Keldeo, Mawile, Negrek, mewtini)
*Ottercopter* (4) (I liek Squirtles, Seshas, kyeugh, rari_teh)
*(abstain)* (3) (Mr. Ultracool, Ottercopter, serimachi)
*Panini* (2) (Boquise, Eifie)
*Eifie* (1) (M&F)
*Keldeo* (1) (Mist1422)
*Odie_Pie* (1) (Panini)
*kyeugh* (1) (RedneckPhoenix)
*[JackPK]* (1) (Vipera Magnifica)
No vote (6) (Flora, JackPK, Stryke, IndigoEmmy, Odie_Pie, kokorico)



Spoiler: Full vote history



*Seshas* votes *kyeugh* (#57)
*Eifie* votes *Keldeo* (#58)
*Herbe* votes *abstain* (#59)
*mewtini* votes *abstain* (#63)
*Keldeo* votes *Eifie* (#65)
*Vipera Magnifica* votes *JackPK* (#74)
*Herbe* votes *JackPK* (#77)
*Mist1422* votes *Keldeo* (#81)
*M&F* votes *JackPK* (#88)
*Seshas* unvotes (#117)
*Keldeo* votes *Mr. Ultracool* (#125)
*Herbe* unvotes (#128)
*serimachi* votes *abstain* (#186)
*Keldeo* votes *Boquise* (#233)
*rari_teh* votes *abstain* (#254)
*Mr. Ultracool* votes *abstain* (#488)
*Eifie* votes *Odie_Pie* (#513)
*Herbe* votes *Odie_Pie* (#518)
*kyeugh* votes *Seshas* (#543)
*kokorico* votes *Keldeo* (#612)
*kyeugh* unvotes (#617)
*Seshas* votes *Ottercopter* (#649)
*rari_teh* votes *Ottercopter* (#680)
*M&F* votes *Eifie* (#732)
*rari_teh* unvotes (#781)
*Eifie* votes *Boquise* (#929)
*Keldeo* votes *Odie_Pie* (#1009)
*mewtini* votes *I liek Squirtles* (#1092)
*Boquise* votes *I liek Squirtles* (#1141)
*Eifie* unvotes (#1155)
*Eifie* votes *Ottercopter* (#1181)
*Negrek* votes *RedneckPhoenix* (#1186)
*Herbe* votes *I liek Squirtles* (#1211)
*kyeugh* votes *Ottercopter* (#1228)
*Keldeo* votes *I liek Squirtles* (#1254)
*Mawile* votes *I liek Squirtles* (#1256)
*Negrek* votes *I liek Squirtles* (#1258)
*Keldeo* votes *Ottercopter* (#1262)
*Boquise* votes *Ottercopter* (#1263)
*rari_teh* votes *Ottercopter* (#1275)
*Panini* votes *Odie_Pie* (#1321)
*Ottercopter* votes *I liek Squirtles* (#1353)
*Eifie* votes *RedneckPhoenix* (#1360)
*kyeugh* votes *I liek Squirtles* (#1406)
*RedneckPhoenix* votes *rari_teh* (#1407)
*Keldeo* votes *I liek Squirtles* (#1432)
*RedneckPhoenix* votes *kyeugh* (#1435)
*I liek Squirtles* votes *Ottercopter* (#1441)
*kokorico* unvotes (#1449)
*Eifie* votes *Ottercopter* (#1453)
*Ottercopter* votes *abstain* (#1459)
*mewtini* votes *Ottercopter* (#1463)
*Boquise* votes *Panini* (#1464)
*kyeugh* votes *Ottercopter* (#1465)
*Eifie* votes *Panini* (#1467)
*mewtini* votes *I liek Squirtles* (#1473)





Spoiler: Active votes



*Boquise* votes *Panini* (#1464)
*Eifie* votes *Panini* (#1467)
*Herbe* votes *I liek Squirtles* (#1211)
*I liek Squirtles* votes *Ottercopter* (#1441)
*Keldeo* votes *I liek Squirtles* (#1432)
*M&F* votes *Eifie* (#732)
*Mawile* votes *I liek Squirtles* (#1256)
*Mist1422* votes *Keldeo* (#81)
*Mr. Ultracool* votes *None* (#488)
*Negrek* votes *I liek Squirtles* (#1258)
*Ottercopter* votes *None* (#1459)
*Panini* votes *Odie_Pie* (#1321)
*RedneckPhoenix* votes *kyeugh* (#1435)
*Seshas* votes *Ottercopter* (#649)
*Vipera Magnifica* votes *JackPK* (#74)
*kyeugh* votes *Ottercopter* (#1465)
*mewtini* votes *I liek Squirtles* (#1473)
*rari_teh* votes *Ottercopter* (#1275)
*serimachi* votes *None* (#186)





Spoiler: Pings



@Negrek
@Keldeo
@JackPK
@Flora
@I liek Squirtles
@kyeugh
@Ottercopter
@M&F
@Mist1422
@Eifie
@RedneckPhoenix
@Panini
@kokorico
@Boquise
@Seshas
@Stryke
@mewtini
@Mr. Ultracool
@IndigoEmmy
@rari_teh
@Mawile
@Odie_Pie
@serimachi
@Herbe
@Vipera Magnifica


----------



## Butterfree

I have now created a small Python script to help me count votes in this game (and future mafia games, hopefully). It's very simple, and ideally we want to have a mafia hack that can _properly_ automate this, but this quick-and-dirty solution should make it easier for me to provide you with live vote counts without hastily screwing anything up. (To be clear, the actual noting down of who makes what vote in what post will still be done manually by me; you'll still be fine if you misspell the name of the player you're voting, etc., so long as I can clearly tell who you're voting for. The script just handles figuring out each player's active vote and tallying the votes.)

To put it to the test, I ran the full vote history I did yesterday through it for a proper automatically counted result, which _slightly_ changed yesterday's tally: I'd failed to include serimachi's abstain vote in the count and active vote list, and I'd accidentally managed to list Panini as the one voting Eifie yesterday in the final vote count, rather than M&F. These have now been corrected. (Obviously, this did not change the final result of the day.)


----------



## Butterfree

When the inhabitants of Troperville gather once again in the town square, one among their number is missing again.

After a quick headcount, they realize *Boquise* isn't there. There is no answer when they ring his doorbell. In the end, they break into his house and find him in his bed, smiling contentedly, dead without a mark on him.

After the clusterfuckery of yesterday, sparing guilty glances at the poor Squirtles at *I liek Squirtles*' house who no longer have anyone to like them, the town is a little hesitant. But ultimately, these murders are an attack on all of Troperville, and they must be avenged with more murder, obviously. The noose is hastily washed with somebody's garden hose, the pitchforks are readied, and the mob is ready to go.

*Boquise is dead. He was not mafia.

You have 72 hours to discuss. The day will end on April 18th, 0:00 UTC (Iceland time zone best time zone).*



Spoiler: Pings



@Negrek
@Keldeo
@JackPK
@Flora
@I liek Squirtles
@kyeugh
@Ottercopter
@M&F
@Mist1422
@Eifie
@RedneckPhoenix
@Panini
@kokorico
@Boquise
@Seshas
@Stryke
@mewtini
@Mr. Ultracool
@IndigoEmmy
@rari_teh
@Mawile
@Odie_Pie
@serimachi
@Herbe
@Vipera Magnifica


----------



## mewtini

oh.


----------



## mewtini

Butterfree said:


> (Iceland time zone best time zone).


i'm angry reacting both for the loss of one of my favorite posters and for this quote


----------



## Keldeo

*Ottercopter*

Hi, can you explain your role please?


----------



## kyeugh

rip tbh
i love that ils is actually a group of squirtles
so uh boq is smiling too huh


----------



## rari_teh

Holy shit, you guys D:


----------



## rari_teh

Keldeo said:


> *Ottercopter*
> 
> Hi, can you explain your role please?


That’s a way to start the day lol


----------



## Negrek

I liek Squirtles was a White Mage, so there goes our magic doctor, probably.

Boquise was A God Am I.

@Vipera Magnifica I know you aren't interested in playing anymore, but would you mind stopping by to say what happened to you last night?

And clearly, Ottercopter has some explaining to do...


----------



## rari_teh

I bet 1,000 pokédollars Otter was bluffing


----------



## mewtini

uh, what to make of zero marks and a smile ... another markless death??? god. what the fuck. part of me is like is this even a mafia kill? but it has to be right? ugh

i have stuff to ask/talk about that i compiled during night phase review but that'll be a bit


----------



## Keldeo

I mean my hypothesis aorn is that Otter's Just Mafia Here and claimed jester-like in order to sway people off her in the panic of deadline.

Boq is an interesting kill tbh that I assume is from the mafia given the similar ish death flavor to Jack? I looked over Panini last Night and noted a few wagon-related posts near EOD but it still felt kind of disengaged. It would be cool to get more game-related stuff from her toDay.

kyeugh, hmm... Too Happy To Live?


----------



## mewtini

@Vipera Magnifica can you help w/roleclaim?


----------



## rari_teh

mewtini said:


> i'm angry reacting both for the loss of one of my favorite posters and for this quote


It’s easier to accept the facts, mewtini. UTC _is_ best time zone.


----------



## kyeugh

kyeugh said:


> so uh boq is smiling too huh


actually i guess jack wasn’t smiling. idk if this makes me care more or less about that whole thing


----------



## mewtini

kyeugh said:


> actually i guess jack wasn’t smiling. idk if this makes me care more or less about that whole thing


he wasn't smiling, they're just both. """nonviolent""" deaths, eep


----------



## kyeugh

mewtini said:


> he wasn't smiling, they're just both. """nonviolent""" deaths, eep


true, but attention was drawn to his expression


----------



## Eifie

n1 Mr. Ultracool green


----------



## rari_teh

Wasn’t there someone in the last TV Tropes mafia who died smiling and his role allowed him to do stuff after death?

Isn’t A God Am I kinda compatible with that?


----------



## kyeugh

i’m sorry mewtini i promise i’ll go on pokémon showdown in a second


----------



## mewtini

Keldeo said:


> I mean my hypothesis aorn is that Otter's Just Mafia Here and claimed jester-like in order to sway people off her in the panic of deadline.


yeah. formal apology for the switch tbh, i got scared by this and didn't fully realize i was the deciding vote :(


----------



## kyeugh

rari_teh said:


> Wasn’t there someone in the last TV Tropes mafia who died smiling and his role allowed him to do stuff after death?
> 
> Isn’t A God Am I kinda compatible with that?


i think this might be what i was thinking of. eif do you remember who it was, i don’t want to read


----------



## Eifie

I am upset if we have a town vigilante and they didn't shoot Ottercopter last night

iirc Ottercopter's roleclaim was like, so close to the deadline that it might've been cutting it too close to be a bluff

either way we should vig her though


----------



## Eifie

kyeugh said:


> i think this might be what i was thinking of. eif do you remember who it was, i don’t want to read


it was Claire and she had like a triumphant grin on her face or something


----------



## mewtini

Eifie said:


> I am upset if we have a town vigilante and they didn't shoot Ottercopter last night
> 
> iirc Ottercopter's roleclaim was like, so close to the deadline that it might've been cutting it too close to be a bluff
> 
> either way we should vig her though


i wanna hear from her exactly because i felt like it was a panic response that could've actually made it true


----------



## rari_teh

Also @Eifie, @Negrek and @Mawile, I was thinking… you said deleted your role PMs from the last game, but did you also delete the email notification?


----------



## Ottercopter

I'm kinda hesitant to post my entire role because it sounds reactive to me...? Like, I'm a vanilla townie until /something/ happens. I thought that something was getting lynched, but when I read over my PM more carefully, it kinda obviously wasn't. But if I say what it is, it definitely won't happen. I've been wondering how to phrase this all night and I've got nothing...
Which I know sounds suspicious as hell, I realize I messed up in the worst possible way and I'm pretty much prepared to get lynched for real this time. It won't have any consequences for you except one less townie (and maybe the absence of whatever vague thing I think my role could possibly do), promise.

For what it's worth, A. I DID rescind my vote for Squirtles and offer to die when he said he was a doctor, and B. If I get nominated and lynched, I really will post everything I know about my role with about ten minutes to go...? It won't matter once I'm dead, after all.
----
Squirtles, though! I guess that his final words do confirm that we can almost definitely trust IndigoEmmy! And I wonder what it means that the two doctor factions don't get along...


----------



## Eifie

Negrek said:


> I liek Squirtles was a White Mage, so there goes our magic doctor, probably.
> 
> Boquise was A God Am I.
> 
> @Vipera Magnifica I know you aren't interested in playing anymore, but would you mind stopping by to say what happened to you last night?
> 
> And clearly, Ottercopter has some explaining to do...


see guys come on Jack's flavour doesn't seem like a counterpart to that. I told you he was a mafia doctor >:(


----------



## Herbe

re: the ottercopter situation, it was chaotic and I kinda went deer-in-headlights   

the A God Am I trope sounds super interesting  but idk how that reconciles with a not-mafia flip? seems p evil to me????


----------



## Eifie

rari_teh said:


> Also @Eifie, @Negrek and @Mawile, I was thinking… you said deleted your role PMs from the last game, but did you also delete the email notification?


I didn't delete my role PM from the last game, I have it. it's not useful. I was vanilla and then converted to mafia by a literal act of god (i.e., Butterfree/opal wanted to make up for the fact that the mafia were doing so badly so they converted the most active VT)


----------



## rari_teh

Eifie said:


> I am upset if we have a town vigilante and they didn't shoot Ottercopter last night


I wonder if Odie’s the vigilante. There was only one death this night after all…


----------



## kyeugh

mewtini said:


> i wanna hear from her exactly because i felt like it was a panic response that could've actually made it true


the main  thing is that looking back i don’t feel like her play really looked like the play of someone with a serious wagon on them who wanted to be lynched


----------



## mewtini

Ottercopter said:


> I'm kinda hesitant to post my entire role because it sounds reactive to me...?


tbh can you just give solid role details lol
the suspicion is already on :(


----------



## Eifie

rari_teh said:


> I wonder if Odie’s the vigilante. There was only one death this night after all…


let's not speculate


----------



## mewtini

odie hasn't been online since like april 1st (when i checked last night anyway) so


----------



## Herbe

Ottercopter said:


> But if I say what it is, it definitely won't happen.


this weirds me out


----------



## kyeugh

Eifie said:


> see guys come on Jack's flavour doesn't seem like a counterpart to that. I told you he was a mafia doctor >:(


honestly yeah this was kinda my thought but like
three healing roles!?


Herbe said:


> re: the ottercopter situation, it was chaotic and I kinda went deer-in-headlights
> 
> the A God Am I trope sounds super interesting  but idk how that reconciles with a not-mafia flip? seems p evil to me????


 yeah this is where i’m at
what if all the flips so far are wrong lol.


----------



## rari_teh

Ottercopter said:


> [many words]


I don’t buy this?



Herbe said:


> the A God Am I trope sounds super interesting  but idk how that reconciles with a not-mafia flip? seems p evil to me????


_Maybe_ he was 3p? Those flip up as not mafia, right?


----------



## kyeugh

Ottercopter said:


> l
> Squirtles, though! I guess that his final words do confirm that we can almost definitely trust IndigoEmmy! And I wonder what it means that the two doctor factions don't get along...


i assumed it meant that if they clashed the target died
ngl i kind of believe otter lol


----------



## mewtini

rari_teh said:


> _Maybe_ he was 3p? Those flip up as not mafia, right?


this is a fair guess tbh. but maybe he wasn't even mafia aligned 3p? i townread him because i thought he was playing like, helpful, even if he was aggressive. idk. I Liked Him. and i Miss Him


----------



## mewtini

kyeugh said:


> ngl i kind of believe otter lol


me as well. i will type not oneliners soon i promise


----------



## Herbe

yeah i think this would be a really dumb play for mafia!otter and i have more faith in her than that but i would love love love some more info
for informed decisions and such


----------



## kyeugh

tbh yeah i don’t really get the impression that boq was anti town
i feel like it’s kind of a moot point though tbh


----------



## Stryke

Ottercopter said:


> Squirtles, though! I guess that his final words do confirm that we can almost definitely trust IndigoEmmy! And I wonder what it means that the two doctor factions don't get along...


Probably cancels out bc PEMDAS or some shit. At least on the upside, there's no chance of that happening anymore  even though the chances of a doctor clash were already slim because this game is massive


----------



## Eifie

I did basically no rereading while the thread was closed. sorry not sorry

the two people that come to mind to look closely at today are M&F and Panini

my post about Panini at EoD was kind of harshly worded, sorry @Panini :( I was desperate to get something out before the day ended. anyway the thing that worries me there is that Panini didn't really make a stance (she said if she was voting for one she would vote for ILS but without an actual vote there that doesn't really mean anything to me) and instead voted on a wagon that was at that point not happening, in a case where there were two competing wagons and I think neither were capital-m Mafia-aligned. it kind of made me nervous even right there when it happened and I was like "what if we have t/t wagons and she's a wolf staying away???" so now that I think neither wagon was Mafia I'm getting confirmation bias like whoa. her reason for voting Odie_pie there was if she doesn't come back in time and her vote gets in the way or something but I don't know if that really feels _like_ her. like a lot of people on the wagons were clearly actively online right then to move their votes around and also the just not using her vote doesn't feel that town!Panini-like :( there's also the fact that she hasn't done much in the way of solving, keeps promising more content but hasn't delivered yet, and I am probably totally biased but I am not thrilled with her question to me about voting Odie_pie because I literally gave my reasons right in the post where I voted her. if she saw my vote she was the reasons. so the asking me about it kind of feels like asking to do something/shade.

it also sort of brings up alarm bells for me that M&F posted once close to EoD but never placed a non-joke vote which doesn't really jive with her like, not wanting to waste lynches? I expected her to have some sort of opinion or do something and as far as I recall she never did and again I think the wolves didn't care which of the two was lynched (until Rebecca made her claim)


----------



## rari_teh

kyeugh said:


> the main  thing is that looking back i don’t feel like her play really looked like the play of someone with a serious wagon on them who wanted to be lynched


My guess is that someone in the mafia chat suggested a last-minute bold roleclaim to try to panic someone into flipping the vote. If Otter really thought she’d win by being lynched, why the hell would she gloat about it while people could still flip votes? Idk mate…


----------



## Eifie

kyeugh said:


> honestly yeah this was kinda my thought but like
> three healing roles!?
> 
> yeah this is where i’m at
> what if all the flips so far are wrong lol.


yes, there were at least 3 doctors in the past tv tropes mafia


----------



## Ottercopter

Because I'm still town aligned.


----------



## Eifie

Herbe said:


> the A God Am I trope sounds super interesting  but idk how that reconciles with a not-mafia flip? seems p evil to me????


third-parties generally tend to flip non-mafia


----------



## kyeugh

rari_teh said:


> My guess is that someone in the mafia chat suggested a last-minute bold roleclaim to try to panic someone into flipping the vote. If Otter really thought she’d win by being lynched, why the hell would she gloat about it while people could still flip votes? Idk mate…


i don’t think she was gloating and also this makes a lot more reachy assumptions than not imo


----------



## kyeugh

Eifie said:


> yes, there were at least 3 doctors in the past tv tropes mafia


bruh


----------



## Herbe

thanks eif!
also i wonder what fuckin pagecount we'll hit toDay. 100? 150? who knows, go crazy-


----------



## mewtini

Ottercopter said:


> I'm kinda hesitant to post my entire role because it sounds reactive to me...? Like, I'm a vanilla townie until /something/ happens. I thought that something was getting lynched, but when I read over my PM more carefully, it kinda obviously wasn't. But if I say what it is, it definitely won't happen. I've been wondering how to phrase this all night and I've got nothing...
> 
> [...]
> 
> For what it's worth, A. I DID rescind my vote for Squirtles and offer to die when he said he was a doctor, and B. If I get nominated and lynched, I really will post everything I know about my role with about ten minutes to go...? It won't matter once I'm dead, after all. [...]


i think the worst case for you is to skirt around giving more details than that. "it definitely won't happen" is weirding me out too but i might be more inclined (personally) to let it go if you can give anything else

i think otter offering up A/B read kind of genuinely to me? but A is worrisome just because of the jesterclaim (but it sounds like it was a misread; jury is out). i also don't think she would sound so unwilling to die even if she were playing a jester longcon anyway, idk the more i read it the more it reads desperate!town to me but i really want more concrete role info

@Ottercopter what is your fear in posting more about your role? can you elaborate?


----------



## Eifie

Herbe said:


> thanks eif!
> also i wonder what fuckin pagecount we'll hit toDay. 100? 150? who knows, go crazy-


probably less than before because it's no longer a long weekend :p

I felt pretty blah about spending my entire weekend playing mafia so I'm going to try to stay away more but no matter how many times I say that it does not work.


----------



## Mawile

Negrek said:


> Boquise was A God Am I.


Based on the trope description, it almost reads as third party to me, especially the bit about "character may declare that they have transcended morality as well, and is Above Good and Evil". But if he flipped not mafia and is in fact town (and not third-party), then I'm not sure what role this could correspond to? My initial thought was that a cult leader as a third party could work with the flavor of declaring yourself as a god, but if "not mafia" means "definitely town" and not "potentially third party", then I don't know what other roles would really fit.



rari_teh said:


> Also @Eifie, @Negrek and @Mawile, I was thinking… you said deleted your role PMs from the last game, but did you also delete the email notification?


I tend to always turn off email notifications, plus I'm not even sure the email I used for my original account exists anymore.



Ottercopter said:


> Like, I'm a vanilla townie until /something/ happens


Care to elaborate on either part of this?


----------



## rari_teh

Eifie said:


> yes, there were at least 3 doctors in the past tv tropes mafia


Past TV Tropes mafia had 50+ people, though



Ottercopter said:


> Because I'm still town aligned.


[citation needed]


----------



## Eifie

rari_teh said:


> Past TV Tropes mafia had 50+ people, though
> 
> 
> [citation needed]


there were at least two of the clashing doctors, and then a mafia doctor

I really really think Jack was a mafia doctor

even @Keldeo didn't believe my mech read through smh Keldeo


----------



## mewtini

maybe a controversial q but how do people feel about negrek, specifically @Keldeo


----------



## kyeugh

Mawile said:


> Based on the trope description, it almost reads as third party to me, especially the bit about "character may declare that they have transcended morality as well, and is Above Good and Evil". But if he flipped not mafia and is in fact town (and not third-party), then I'm not sure what role this could correspond to? My initial thought was that a cult leader as a third party could work with the flavor of declaring yourself as a god, but if "not mafia" means "definitely town" and not "potentially third party", then I don't know what other roles would really fit.


any particular reason you’re only “almost” reading it as third party


----------



## Eifie

I would hope Butterfree does the thing where if an individual has a special win condition, if they achieve it they're victorious and leave the game and have their own special ending but the rest of the game continues to play out, but I don't think that usually happens on tcodf.

I kind of think thinking about Ottercopter's role is a needless distraction right now idk

@ town vig if you exist pleeeeeease vig her tonight. we can't risk lynching her.


----------



## mewtini

kyeugh said:


> any particular reason you’re only “almost” reading it as third party


idk if this is the case for mawile but the tvtropes page sounds mafiaesque unless you read a bit into it, ie past sentence 1 (also if mawile was trying to be, like, gentle in the wording - which he's tended to be - someone else had already guessed it was just mafia so mawile might've been trying to lightly disagree)


----------



## Ottercopter

mewtini said:


> @Ottercopter what is your fear in posting more about your role? can you elaborate?


My fear is that if it doesn't happen, I'll basically just be a vanilla townie. Whereas if it DOES happen, it /might?/ do something useful, like reveal outside information or a hint or something. But for what it's worth, that IS just me speculating.


----------



## Herbe

w negrek i feel like no one can really fact check her????? and that concerns me???? cause hell, I could look up tropes and assign plausible ones to dead ppl too. until VM saunters up here and claims then idk what to think.
that being said she doesn't give me horrible vibes, and I'm inclined to trust her, idk I'm just being cautious


----------



## mewtini

Ottercopter said:


> My fear is that if it doesn't happen, I'll basically just be a vanilla townie. Whereas if it DOES happen, it /might?/ do something useful, like reveal outside information or a hint or something. But for what it's worth, that IS just me speculating.


the thing is i feel like vanilla town isn't the worst thing to be, and roleclaiming and going VT would still >>> being dead by vig or by some other means, wouldn't it


----------



## Mawile

kyeugh said:


> any particular reason you’re only “almost” reading it as third party


The trope description mentions that the tropes of Above Good and Evil and A God Am I don't have to coincide, meaning that, in the context of this game, you could have a town-aligned A God Am I role.


----------



## Eifie

mewtini said:


> maybe a controversial q but how do people feel about negrek, specifically @Keldeo


I'm ok with Negrek for the moment

I think regardless of her alignment she is not lying about her role


----------



## Keldeo

Eifie said:


> @ town vig if you exist pleeeeeease vig her tonight. we can't risk lynching her.


Yeah this is probably a fair point. It crossed my mind that maybe a town vig did target Otter and she is, like, an activated alien now? I don't think it's worth outing a possible vig for that, though.

*Unvote Otter*

Kinda wanna believe Otter, but the same problem comes up as for if she was an actual jester or something - if she knew or sincerely believed that getting herself lynched would benefit herself, I am not sure why she wouldn't self-vote instead of abstaining.


----------



## mewtini

Herbe said:


> that being said she doesn't give me horrible vibes, and I'm inclined to trust her, idk I'm just being cautious


thanks for reply! 


Eifie said:


> I think regardless of her alignment she is not lying about her role


just ftr i wasn't asking because i doubt her role. i think it's a bit hard/weird to fake it

tbqh i have thoughts but am trying to decide if now is the time to give them, i don't want to derail but i also do think it's related


----------



## rari_teh

mewtini said:


> maybe a controversial q but how do people feel about negrek, specifically @Keldeo


I’m not sure. She does seem to be trying to be helpful, especially since the last third of d1, but once again, I have nothing to seal her as a 100% townie. In other words, she’s part of the Amorphous Blob™


----------



## Ottercopter

mewtini said:


> the thing is i feel like vanilla town isn't the worst thing to be, and roleclaiming and going VT would still >>> being dead by vig or by some other means, wouldn't it


Yeah, that's true. Okay, how about in ~50 hours? Sometime where we still have about a day afterward to deal with it?


----------



## mewtini

Keldeo said:


> if she knew or sincerely believed that getting herself lynched would benefit herself, I am not sure why she wouldn't self-vote instead of abstaining.


yep. seemed like a bad jester play and with votes that close, a really calculating jester could have easily flipped it last minute or not even made the claim to begin with


----------



## kyeugh

Mawile said:


> The trope description mentions that the tropes of Above Good and Evil and A God Am I don't have to coincide, meaning that, in the context of this game, you could have a town-aligned A God Am I role.


i mean the tvt page is not a mafia manual tbf. i don’t think it matters to the better like that
i feel like it’s p likely to be a third party role although i don’t think it really matters at this point


----------



## Eifie

mewtini said:


> yep. seemed like a bad jester play and with votes that close, a really calculating jester could have easily flipped it last minute or not even made the claim to begin with


people tend to do things that seem bizarre when they have a role they haven't completely thought out and understood

(but I don't really think she's a jester, at worst an alien, but even that, idk)


----------



## kyeugh

kyeugh said:


> i mean the tvt page is not a mafia manual tbf. i don’t think it matters to the better like that
> i feel like it’s p likely to be a third party role although i don’t think it really matters at this point


* letter


----------



## mewtini

Ottercopter said:


> Yeah, that's true. Okay, how about in ~50 hours? Sometime where we still have about a day afterward to deal with it?


i'm sorry, i'm not trying to interrogate you or anything (well i kind of am but not meanly) and lol tbh i feel kind of bad for you, but why later versus now?


----------



## Eifie

one reason that makes me think boq could indeed have been third-party is it felt like people thought he was town

and boq has this inverse meta where he tends to get highly scumread when he's town, and highly townread when he's non-town


----------



## rari_teh

Ottercopter said:


> Yeah, that's true. Okay, how about in ~50 hours? Sometime where we still have about a day afterward to deal with it?


That would be perf


----------



## Eifie

can I further the confirmation bias and speculate that maybe boq's somewhat vocal distrust of Panini and M&F could've been a factor in his death


----------



## Ottercopter

I'm hoping that that amount of time will give us a chance to learn more stuff or move the discussion forward toward finding a mafia member instead. 
That way, if my role does something, it still has a chance to work.


----------



## mewtini

Eifie said:


> can I further the confirmation bias and speculate that maybe boq's somewhat vocal distrust of Panini and M&F could've been a factor in his death


i was thinking about this but didnt know if it was too hot of a take


----------



## mewtini

Ottercopter said:


> I'm hoping that that amount of time will give us a chance to learn more stuff or move the discussion forward toward finding a mafia member instead.
> That way, if my role does something, it still has a chance to work.


ok i like this answer honestly


----------



## Keldeo

The trope talk is kind of going over my head right now, will catch up on it later. Boq's trope would be good to know, though.



mewtini said:


> maybe a controversial q but how do people feel about negrek, specifically @Keldeo


Initial thinking: like, fine, reasonable posting. Claim is pretty towny given the meta here - I don't remember what reaction she had toward VM specifically, I remember it being maybe flat but it was early so I don't think she would be committal either way, I could reread that. I agree with Eifie that she's probably telling the truth about her role, but I don't see her ability, in itself, as extremely alignment-indicative. She voted ILS but I don't remember her progression on him so want to look into that.



Spoiler



Super wild idea: Everyone dying happy will reincarnate later as part of a cult


----------



## Ottercopter

Just re-emphasizing here, my role PM DOES say that I'm town aligned, not a third party. And that a town win where I don't accomplish my role is preferable to a mafia win where I do.


----------



## Eifie

Eifie said:


> can I further the confirmation bias and speculate that maybe boq's somewhat vocal distrust of Panini and M&F could've been a factor in his death


if anyone brings up "blah blah possible frame" I'm gonna post mildly scolding faces at them because idk if I've literally ever actually seen a framing kill and definitely _definitely_ not on n1

i'm still living in woweeland with this one though


----------



## mewtini

Keldeo said:


> She voted ILS but I don't remember her progression on him so want to look into that.


these are my Thoughts that i have to collect into a postable format sometime soon

also keldeo your spoilerspec is kind of terrifying me rn


----------



## kyeugh

my thoughts on negrek are basically that i think everyone’s read on them is based 100% on their role and they seem fine with that
also i feel like scum would sooner go for negrek than someone like boq if their claim is legit
but meh. i think overall i feel fine. the role is good enough for me to lean town for now, would rather focus energy elsewhere


----------



## rari_teh

Keldeo said:


> Kinda wanna believe Otter, but the same problem comes up as for if she was an actual jester or something - if she knew or sincerely believed that getting herself lynched would benefit herself, I am not sure why she wouldn't self-vote instead of abstaining.


Maybe she didn’t know she could self-vote? Idk, I’m grasping at straws



mewtini said:


> tbqh i have thoughts but am trying to decide if now is the time to give them, i don't want to derail but i also do think it's related


Tell us when you’re comfortable, but do tell!


----------



## Mawile

Ottercopter said:


> That way, if my role does something, it still has a chance to work.


Just to clarify: do you know exactly what the trigger is for your role to change? I'm not asking you to tell us what it is just now.


----------



## mewtini

rari_teh said:


> Maybe she didn’t know she could self-vote?


even in this case she had many other ways to keep the vote on her; the hammer was SWINGING towards her before she claimed a jesteresque role. i don't really think she's dumb (even if i did mention she seemed a bit frazzled during d1) so i'm choosing to trust atm


----------



## Eifie

mewtini said:


> these are my Thoughts that i have to collect into a postable format sometime soon
> 
> also keldeo your spoilerspec is kind of terrifying me rn


good I'd be interested in hearing that

I'm too lazy to do anything except be like "hmm" about it myself

ok I probably wouldn't actually read what you write very carefully but you know


----------



## Ottercopter

rari_teh said:


> Maybe she didn’t know she could self-vote? Idk, I’m grasping at straws


I haven't played Mafia in maybe six or eight years, but I DO know self voting is a thing. I've seen Activated Aliens and the like do it.


----------



## Eifie

btw I just want to say that was the most fun EoD I've ever been a part of

most EoDs leave me with a mild feeling of self-loathing and nebulous anxiety after the green flip


----------



## kyeugh

i mean self voting kind of transparent isn’t it
not that “it’s good if i get lynched lole” isn’t basically as transparent as it gets but like


----------



## Eifie

maybe I'll pressure *Panini* a little even though she's gonna respond to this with a bunch of eloquent and hard-hitting posts that will make me go "sorry. i'm sorry. i'm trying to remove it"


----------



## rari_teh

Ottercopter said:


> I haven't played Mafia in maybe six or eight years, but I DO know self voting is a thing. I've seen Activated Aliens and the like do it.


Wait. Then if you knew self-voting is a thing, why didn’t you self-vote?


----------



## kyeugh

mewtini i don't have a gen 7 team smh


----------



## mewtini

rari_teh said:


> Wait. Then if you knew self-voting is a thing, why didn’t you self-vote?


no mafia reads maybe?

hot take: vengeful town would get to kill someone as they get lynched


----------



## kyeugh

eif do you have any scum reads right now?


----------



## rari_teh

Keldeo said:


> Super wild idea: Everyone dying happy will reincarnate later as part of a cult





Spoiler



𝕿𝖍𝖊 𝕮𝖍𝖚𝖗𝖈𝖍 𝖔𝖋 𝕳𝖔𝖑𝖞 𝕿𝖗𝖚𝖙𝖍





kyeugh said:


> i feel like scum would sooner go for negrek than someone like boq if their claim is legit


Unless Eifie is right and Panini and/or M&F had a part in it


----------



## Ottercopter

Mawile said:


> Just to clarify: do you know exactly what the trigger is for your role to change? I'm not asking you to tell us what it is just now.


I don't know if it changes, that's just a guess. But yes, I know the trigger.


----------



## Eifie

kyeugh said:


> eif do you have any scum reads right now?


scumleaning Panini and M&F


----------



## Mawile

Ottercopter said:


> I don't know if it changes, that's just a guess. But yes, I know the trigger.


Ah, by "change", I meant for you to flip from being vanilla town to having some type of other role/power.


----------



## Eifie

btw did anyone read my long post about Panini and M&F or did you just kinda like it because it was long and move on planning to read it later

no judgement tbh I know qva doesn't have the attention span for that post

@Keldeo read my post or I'm mason breaking up with you


----------



## Ottercopter

rari_teh said:


> Wait. Then if you knew self-voting is a thing, why didn’t you self-vote?


Panic, tbh. 

Uhhh, I'll answer anything else about me as it comes, but I'm gonna try and review the thread to talk about non-me stuff now if that's okay.


----------



## rari_teh

This might be a good time to post the part II of my (not so) bigass post



mewtini said:


> especially to rari_teh who's been playing gullible!town


Could you elaborate? Any gullibility in my part is definitely not intentional lol



kyeugh said:


> also rari i hope you don't think i dislike you or anything lol. i hope that's not the tone i'm putting off here


It’s fine ^^ I know this is just a game. Gripes and shades are self-contained to the game, pretty much like the lynchings and executions.


----------



## kyeugh

Eifie said:


> scumleaning Panini and M&F


is this due to boq's death or did that just add to the leans you already had
i know you posted your reasoning about them before you conjectured that he was killed for FoSing them but i'm curious which idea occurred to you first


----------



## Mawile

As in, like, "do you know the trigger that would cause you to stop being vanilla town and turn into something else".


----------



## Mawile

Mawile said:


> As in, like, "do you know the trigger that would cause you to stop being vanilla town and turn into something else".


(this was re: my last post)


----------



## Herbe

Eifie said:


> btw did anyone read my long post about Panini and M&F or did you just kinda like it because it was long and move on planning to read it later


... i don't remember seeing that one, was it this Day?


----------



## Eifie

kyeugh said:


> is this due to boq's death or did that just add to the leans you already had
> i know you posted your reasoning about them before you conjectured that he was killed for FoSing them but i'm curious which idea occurred to you first


no the thing about his death occurred to me after and then i was like, aha! see! i'm totally right! this is irrefutable evidence


----------



## kyeugh

Eifie said:


> no judgement tbh I know qva doesn't have the attention span for that post


i read it!  i kind of don't really feel anything about panini/mf and that post didn't really get me there but i could probably be convinced ig


----------



## Eifie

Herbe said:


> ... i don't remember seeing that one, was it this Day?


yes and I think you Liked it



Eifie said:


> I did basically no rereading while the thread was closed. sorry not sorry
> 
> the two people that come to mind to look closely at today are M&F and Panini
> 
> my post about Panini at EoD was kind of harshly worded, sorry @Panini :( I was desperate to get something out before the day ended. anyway the thing that worries me there is that Panini didn't really make a stance (she said if she was voting for one she would vote for ILS but without an actual vote there that doesn't really mean anything to me) and instead voted on a wagon that was at that point not happening, in a case where there were two competing wagons and I think neither were capital-m Mafia-aligned. it kind of made me nervous even right there when it happened and I was like "what if we have t/t wagons and she's a wolf staying away???" so now that I think neither wagon was Mafia I'm getting confirmation bias like whoa. her reason for voting Odie_pie there was if she doesn't come back in time and her vote gets in the way or something but I don't know if that really feels _like_ her. like a lot of people on the wagons were clearly actively online right then to move their votes around and also the just not using her vote doesn't feel that town!Panini-like :( there's also the fact that she hasn't done much in the way of solving, keeps promising more content but hasn't delivered yet, and I am probably totally biased but I am not thrilled with her question to me about voting Odie_pie because I literally gave my reasons right in the post where I voted her. if she saw my vote she was the reasons. so the asking me about it kind of feels like asking to do something/shade.
> 
> it also sort of brings up alarm bells for me that M&F posted once close to EoD but never placed a non-joke vote which doesn't really jive with her like, not wanting to waste lynches? I expected her to have some sort of opinion or do something and as far as I recall she never did and again I think the wolves didn't care which of the two was lynched (until Rebecca made her claim)


----------



## mewtini

ok, so, i'm gonna just post my current tierlist before i elaborate, but i will do that sometime soon! just wanted to make sure it wouldnt be too derailing. top list is pretty defined, even order (ie i don't trust the bottom _much_ less than the top), second/third are mostly ordered (top = i trust more, bottom = less)

*likely town? like 85% think so?*
emmy (roleclaim)
kyeugh
seshas (roleclaim)
VM (roleclaim)
eifie
rari
kokorico

*iiiiidk*
keldeo
mawile
ultracool
mist (havent seen much from them)
odie (inactive)
@RedneckPhoenix can you explain your end of day?
@Flora are you alive
@Stryke i am interested in your thoughts on the goings-on when you get a chance.

*maybe uncomfortable with*
negrek
panini (currently am following eif/keldeo's read)
mf

hopefully not missing anyone this time


----------



## Herbe

sorry eif i used up all my thinky/remembery brain on my ap calc today
lemme closeread it


----------



## kyeugh

i really can't get a handle on panini's meta (i say for like the third game in a row) but i don't really find the odie_pie vote that odd although i do find it useless/not different from abstaining
not wanting to fuck up developments that occur while she's gone feels like a reasonable and imo towny sentiment though


----------



## Eifie

mewtini said:


> panini (currently am following eif/keldeo's read)


oh did Keldeo say something about Panini or are you just referring to the fact that me and Keldeo are the same person 

god no matter how many times I use that emoji it doesn't get added to my recent smilies :(


----------



## Herbe

mewtini said:


> hopefully not missing anyone this time


not a single herbe in sight :((((


----------



## mewtini

Eifie said:


> oh did Keldeo say something about Panini or are you just referring to the fact that me and Keldeo are the same person


keldeo voted for panini at some point during the EoD clusterfuck didnt he?



Eifie said:


> god no matter how many times I use that emoji it doesn't get added to my recent smilies :(


:(


----------



## kyeugh

mewtini said:


> ok, so, i'm gonna just post my current tierlist before i elaborate, but i will do that sometime soon! just wanted to make sure it wouldnt be too derailing. top list is pretty defined, even order (ie i don't trust the bottom _much_ less than the top), second/third are mostly ordered (top = i trust more, bottom = less)
> 
> *likely town? like 85% think so?*
> emmy (roleclaim)
> kyeugh
> seshas (roleclaim)
> VM (roleclaim)
> eifie
> rari
> kokorico
> 
> *iiiiidk*
> keldeo
> mawile
> ultracool
> mist (havent seen much from them)
> odie (inactive)
> @RedneckPhoenix can you explain your end of day?
> @Flora are you alive
> @Stryke i am interested in your thoughts on the goings-on when you get a chance.
> 
> *maybe uncomfortable with*
> negrek
> panini (currently am following eif/keldeo's read)
> mf
> 
> hopefully not missing anyone this time


you're on my town list too mewmew-chan


----------



## Eifie

kyeugh said:


> i really can't get a handle on panini's meta (i say for like the third game in a row) but i don't really find the odie_pie vote that odd although i do find it useless/not different from abstaining
> not wanting to fuck up developments that occur while she's gone feels like a reasonable and imo towny sentiment though


mmf I just feel like she hasn't taken a stance on _anyone_ in this game and I know she's busy but even when overwhelmed in mashes she does spit out some reads


----------



## mewtini

Herbe said:


> not a single herbe in sight :((((


oh sorry! lol

let me amend/just going to repost so no one gets lost



Spoiler: mewt's tierlist



*likely town? like 85% think so?*
emmy (roleclaim)
kyeugh
seshas (roleclaim)
VM (roleclaim)
eifie
herbe
rari
kokorico

*iiiiidk*
keldeo
mawile
ultracool
mist (havent seen much from them)
odie (inactive)
@RedneckPhoenix can you explain your end of day?
@Flora are you alive
@Stryke i am interested in your thoughts on the goings-on when you get a chance.

*maybe uncomfortable with*
negrek
panini (currently am following eif/keldeo's read)
mf


----------



## Eifie

mewtini said:


> keldeo voted for panini at some point during the EoD clusterfuck didnt he?


nah that was me and boq


----------



## Herbe

i've never played w panini before so I'm kinda just going based off of y'alls experience rn


----------



## Eifie

mewtini said:


> ok, so, i'm gonna just post my current tierlist before i elaborate, but i will do that sometime soon! just wanted to make sure it wouldnt be too derailing. top list is pretty defined, even order (ie i don't trust the bottom _much_ less than the top), second/third are mostly ordered (top = i trust more, bottom = less)
> 
> *likely town? like 85% think so?*
> emmy (roleclaim)
> kyeugh
> seshas (roleclaim)
> VM (roleclaim)
> eifie
> rari
> kokorico
> 
> *iiiiidk*
> keldeo
> mawile
> ultracool
> mist (havent seen much from them)
> odie (inactive)
> @RedneckPhoenix can you explain your end of day?
> @Flora are you alive
> @Stryke i am interested in your thoughts on the goings-on when you get a chance.
> 
> *maybe uncomfortable with*
> negrek
> panini (currently am following eif/keldeo's read)
> mf
> 
> hopefully not missing anyone this time


serimachi?


----------



## mewtini

kyeugh said:


> you're on my town list too mewmew-chan


owo

but actually skylar is there a chance i could see your list? kind of interested in your Takes and since they've been more fluid than others' (which for posterity is kinda why i #trust you right now) i'd be curious to know where your head is at


----------



## mewtini

Eifie said:


> serimachi?


god damn it. i forgot they were playing and just 100% left them out of my notes. lmfao. i dont feel like reposting but seri was in "inactive, idk"


----------



## kyeugh

Eifie said:


> mmf I just feel like she hasn't taken a stance on _anyone_ in this game and I know she's busy but even when overwhelmed in mashes she does spit out some reads


i feel like she had lukewarm takes on ils/ottercopter and was on ottercopter when it was a minority wagon imo so that's something
honestly i don't think she was in a significantly different place than the rest of the game at that time seeing as almost everyone was just sort of picking whatever wagon they liked the most without believing that strongly in either
i have kind of come to expect more Content from her but like it's not just the reads that are lacking, it's her activity in general, so meh


----------



## kyeugh

ive been praying like this whole game that no one would ask me for a reads list bc my thoughts are not that organized
but sure i'll do it tbh it's probably time
i have to go set up the switch so my dad can play mario kart and then.  probably play it with him.  but i'll try and write a list tonight


----------



## mewtini

kyeugh said:


> ive been praying like this whole game that no one would ask me for a reads list bc my thoughts are not that organized
> but sure i'll do it tbh it's probably time
> i have to go set up the switch so my dad can play mario kart and then.  probably play it with him.  but i'll try and write a list tonight


haaahahaha i'm sorry. no pressure to, just have definitely been wondering in between your different rounds of spec


----------



## kyeugh

kyeugh said:


> i feel like she had lukewarm takes on ils/ottercopter and was on ottercopter when it was a minority wagon imo so that's something
> honestly i don't think she was in a significantly different place than the rest of the game at that time seeing as almost everyone was just sort of picking whatever wagon they liked the most without believing that strongly in either
> i have kind of come to expect more Content from her but like it's not just the reads that are lacking, it's her activity in general, so meh


this is supposed to say "when it was a minority wagon iirc" lol @ "the numbers are my opinion"


----------



## Eifie

lemme try mine

*The Queen*
Eifie!

*My Mech Clears*
Mr. Ultracool
Keldeo
Mist1422

*Basically lock town*
IndigoEmmy
Seshas

*Town for now, think later*
Vipera Magnifica
Negrek

*Probably town I hope*, hopefully 0-1 mafia here, 2 if I'm bad
kyeugh
mewtini
Herbe
rari_teh
kokorico

*Sure*
Mawile
serimachi (floating back to null because no/basically no activity since the last read)

*idc right now*
Ottercopter

*amorphous blob* unordered
Flora
RedneckPhoenix
Stryke
Odie_Pie

*I don't feel so good*
M&F
Panini


----------



## Stryke

mewtini said:


> @Stryke i am interested in your thoughts on the goings-on when you get a chance.


Not too many thoughts really. I really want to believe otter because it honestly does seem like just a string of unfortunate/ill-timed posts, but like... I could also see it as pretty scummy too, like maybe she actually is an alien type role and now she's trying to backpedal on it in a chance to get activated. But at the same time she seems like she knew she messed up and accidentally made herself seem a lot more scummy than she might be, and she's been really willing to cooperate too. I can see both sides of the story, so I'm definitely interested in whenever she elaborates on her role, maybe it'll help clear things up


----------



## mewtini

OKAY i decided i had stuff to add anyway so i'm reposting. again. this is probably the final time right? untagging my tags from earlier so as to not ping them a third time



Spoiler: mewt's tierlist



*likely town? like 85% think so?*
emmy (roleclaim)
kyeugh
seshas (roleclaim)
VM (roleclaim)
eifie (hypoclaim)
herbe (maybe i just feel validated by him tbh but i Accept)
rari
kokorico (i like their EoD d1)

*iiiiidk*
keldeo
mawile
ultracool (havent seen much from them) (hypo green n1)
mist (havent seen much from them) (hypo green n0)
seri (inactive?)
odie (inactive)
RNP can you explain your end of day?
flora are you alive
stryke (is answering my q as i post this :D)

*maybe uncomfortable with tbh*
negrek
panini (currently am following eif and boq (MAY HE REST IN PEACE :prayer:))
mf


[/QUOTE]


----------



## mewtini

Stryke said:


> Not too many thoughts really. I really want to believe otter because it honestly does seem like just a string of unfortunate/ill-timed posts, but like... I could also see it as pretty scummy too, like maybe she actually is an alien type role and now she's trying to backpedal on it in a chance to get activated. But at the same time she seems like she knew she messed up and accidentally made herself seem a lot more scummy than she might be, and she's been really willing to cooperate too. I can see both sides of the story, so I'm definitely interested in whenever she elaborates on her role, maybe it'll help clear things up


hi! thanks!
have you still been lurkfollowing? do you have anything to say about anyone else or any town/scumreads?


----------



## Eifie

kyeugh said:


> i feel like she had lukewarm takes on ils/ottercopter and was on ottercopter when it was a minority wagon imo so that's something
> honestly i don't think she was in a significantly different place than the rest of the game at that time seeing as almost everyone was just sort of picking whatever wagon they liked the most without believing that strongly in either
> i have kind of come to expect more Content from her but like it's not just the reads that are lacking, it's her activity in general, so meh


she's been like actually in the thread a few times to post about like... stuff no one cares about tbh. I swear she's been talking about reading back and taking notes and stuff? where is that smh


----------



## Keldeo

Eifie said:


> my post about Panini at EoD was kind of harshly worded, sorry @Panini :( I was desperate to get something out before the day ended. anyway the thing that worries me there is that Panini didn't really make a stance (she said if she was voting for one she would vote for ILS but without an actual vote there that doesn't really mean anything to me) and instead voted on a wagon that was at that point not happening, in a case where there were two competing wagons and I think neither were capital-m Mafia-aligned. it kind of made me nervous even right there when it happened and I was like "what if we have t/t wagons and she's a wolf staying away???" so now that I think neither wagon was Mafia I'm getting confirmation bias like whoa. her reason for voting Odie_pie there was if she doesn't come back in time and her vote gets in the way or something but I don't know if that really feels _like_ her. like a lot of people on the wagons were clearly actively online right then to move their votes around and also the just not using her vote doesn't feel that town!Panini-like :( there's also the fact that she hasn't done much in the way of solving, keeps promising more content but hasn't delivered yet, and I am probably totally biased but I am not thrilled with her question to me about voting Odie_pie because I literally gave my reasons right in the post where I voted her. if she saw my vote she was the reasons. so the asking me about it kind of feels like asking to do something/shade.
> 
> it also sort of brings up alarm bells for me that M&F posted once close to EoD but never placed a non-joke vote which doesn't really jive with her like, not wanting to waste lynches? I expected her to have some sort of opinion or do something and as far as I recall she never did and again I think the wolves didn't care which of the two was lynched (until Rebecca made her claim)


Hi homesleif. I have not reread basically at all but I think these reads are cromulent and solid directions to push. I also think they'll both post more today and would like to hear Panini's big thoughts that make you say you want to remove it :P

Can you tell me about the wagons being v/v (or v/3p)? That kinda maps to the EOD weirdness in everyone shifting back and forth, but also maps to I think a different world than I had in a v ILS / w Otter world. Otter's wagon looks very clean either way imo.


----------



## mewtini

Eifie said:


> she's been like actually in the thread a few times to post about like... stuff no one cares about tbh. I swear she's been talking about reading back and taking notes and stuff? where is that smh


ftr while i agree with you i actually feel worse about mf for reasons you have described as well


----------



## Stryke

mewtini said:


> hi! thanks!
> have you still been lurkfollowing? do you have anything to say about anyone else or any town/scumreads?


Tab is open on my phone and will likely stay that way until the end of the phase, so yeah, I'll be around, just call if you need me. And not particularly. They seem promising for sure, but I wanna see what they have to say first before I make any judgements of my own


----------



## Herbe

*Hotboy:*
Herbe!

*P dang sure is town:*
Seshas
IndigoEmmy
Eifie
Mewtini
Keldeo

*Townleaning but not entirely sure*
VM
Rari_teh
Kyeugh
Mawile
Mist1422
Otter I guess..

*Neutral read*
negrek
Kokorico
Mr.ultracool (I literally… don’t recall seeing his posts so idk)
Serimachi
Stryke
M&F (Toss up between Neutral and Hrm.)

*Hrm.*
Panini
rnp but that's just like a gut uneasiness


----------



## Herbe

congrats eifie you're on my townie rank

also i forgot to put any context above that lmao
i also copy pasted this from a word doc (didn't want to get interrupted while writing, and want to say something mid-post) and i had to manually delete the double spaces :///


----------



## Flora

mewtini said:


> @Flora are you alive





Eifie said:


> *amorphous blob* unordered
> Flora


a) amorphous blob checks out
b) oh, lord, so folks on telegram probably know but life has decided to gift me with a cat around the same time another is dying, and that combined with a still-going work schedule has made maf (esp. a game of this magnitude) v hard to partake in, f

gonna be honest, I've been skimming at BEST so i'mma need to catch up before I can make any, like, actual reads or anythin


----------



## mewtini

Flora said:


> a) amorphous blob checks out
> b) oh, lord, so folks on telegram probably know but life has decided to gift me with a cat around the same time another is dying, and that combined with a still-going work schedule has made maf (esp. a game of this magnitude) v hard to partake in, f
> 
> gonna be honest, I've been skimming at BEST so i'mma need to catch up before I can make any, like, actual reads or anythin


thanks!! no problem, i just realized at some point that we'd been calling you inactive but that we'd never ... tagged you i think?



Herbe said:


> *Townleaning but not entirely sure*
> VM
> Rari_teh
> Kyeugh
> Mawile
> Mist1422
> Otter I guess..


can you talk to me about this bracket? (other than otter)


----------



## Eifie

Keldeo said:


> Hi homesleif. I have not reread basically at all but I think these reads are cromulent and solid directions to push. I also think they'll both post more today and would like to hear Panini's big thoughts that make you say you want to remove it :P
> 
> Can you tell me about the wagons being v/v (or v/3p)? That kinda maps to the EOD weirdness in everyone shifting back and forth, but also maps to I think a different world than I had in a v ILS / w Otter world. Otter's wagon looks very clean either way imo.


I talked already in another post! can't believe you don't read your own posts smh. (onlookers don't it's not you, it's me me we're the same person. >:( )

anyway Ottercopter claimed literally at the moment of EoD after resisting it earlier and I think that's probably just too late for it to have been a calculated plan to get votes off her. and tbh I just believe the tone of her posts and stuff like she sounded so confused and like she didn't really understand her role and didn't know what to do in the last-minute panic.


----------



## Herbe

ah i forgot to put flora in my list
they go in neutral (no offense bb take care of ur cat)


----------



## mewtini

Eifie said:


> anyway Ottercopter claimed literally at the moment of EoD after resisting it earlier and I think that's probably just too late for it to have been a calculated plan to get votes off her. and tbh I just believe the tone of her posts and stuff like she sounded so confused and like she didn't really understand her role and didn't know what to do in the last-minute panic.


very agree with this for now, at least until she elaborates a bit in the eventual future. (also imo when she's not been directly FoS'ed she's sounded relatively relaxed? but maybe just how i've been reading)

also hypocop!eifie, why target mr. ultracool?


----------



## rari_teh

@Flora hope your cat wins this battle :(


----------



## rari_teh

People are posting tierlists and Keldeo asked for mine before eod1, so I made one as well.
As pretty much always, upper on the list = more likely to be town.

*Very Likely Town* (i.e. I’m Big Stupid™ if one of these is mafia)
Seshas
IndigoEmmy
Eifie
mewtini

*Strong townlean*
kokorico
kyeugh
Keldeo

*Mild townlean*
Mr. Ultracool (except if I’m a cop, he’s my hypo n0 green)
serimachi
Vipera Magnifica

*The Amorphous Blob™*
Negrek (might change depending on what VM says, if they appear)
Mist
Herbe
RNP
Flora
Mawile

*Mild scumlean*
Stryke
Panini
M&F

*Strong scumlean*
[/hide]

*Independent*
Ottercopter

*ERR 404*
Odie_Pie


----------



## Eifie

mewtini said:


> very agree with this for now, at least until she elaborates a bit in the eventual future. (also imo when she's not been directly FoS'ed she's sounded relatively relaxed? but maybe just how i've been reading)
> 
> also hypocop!eifie, why target mr. ultracool?


I don't get to pick my targets. otherwise I'd have probably checked like, Panini or Boquise n0 instead of Mist.


----------



## Herbe

mewtini said:


> can you talk to me about this bracket? (other than otter)


alright so that tier was more.... taking ppl out of neutral, rather than taking them out of probably def town? im hesitant to tooootally townread a ton of ppl
ok so VM is in my Townish cause their claim, rari seems.... fine? helpful? a good player but since this is like, first game, probably not a super calculated mafiaboy? kyeugh is cool, i don't necessarily agree with her all the time (if i remember correctly; 80 pages of dialogue have more or less coalesced into General Vibes and Memories of ppl) but it's cool, not malicious. mawile seems cool but i havent gotten to entirely vibecheck him yet, would love to talk more. mist was there as kind of an edgecase between townish and neutral


----------



## mewtini

Eifie said:


> I don't get to pick my targets. otherwise I'd have probably checked like, Panini or Boquise n0 instead of Mist.


yeah this is p much why i wondered; ty!


----------



## mewtini

rari_teh said:


> *Strong scumlean*
> [/hide]


LOL


rari_teh said:


> *Strong townlean*
> kokorico


is this because of koko's EoD?


----------



## Herbe

rari_teh said:


> *Strong townlean*
> kokorico


pitch this to me? i'm not sure i'm familiar enough w kokorico's posts to understand this


----------



## Eifie

hmmm the similarity of all these reads lists is making me think. I dunno what it's making me think, but it sure is doing so.


----------



## mewtini

Herbe said:


> pitch this to me? i'm not sure i'm familiar enough w kokorico's posts to understand this


for me koko is in my 'maybe' due to eir 1449 during end-of-day


----------



## Herbe

mewtini said:


> for me koko is in my 'maybe' due to eir 1449 during end-of-day


i will investigate..... (insert picture of me w a detective cap and pipe)


----------



## Eifie

@Keldeo how likely do you think it is that this game is easy?


----------



## mewtini

er not maybe, my p-sure-town


----------



## Herbe

my investigations have given me better vibes abt em but i'm not gonna repost a fixed tier list lmao


----------



## kyeugh

*locktown bc i never bus on a lylo*
kyeugh

*prob town*
eifie
mewtini
indigoemmy
stryke
mr ultracool

*not worrying about this for now*
negrek
vm
odie
ottercopter

*no thoughts head empty*
mist
seshas
serimachi
herbe (i feel like i'm missing something with this one since he's getting a lot of town leans)
flora
kokorico

*vaguely örgh status but i'm just sheeping eif tbh*
panini
mf
keldeo (ok eif has not expressed this read but i think keldeo is at least as implicated by boq's death as the other two, and he bamboozles me constantly, so i'm deciding to be kind of wary.  fwiw i think his posting has been good but.  it always is)
the people in this category i don't actually feel _bad_ about, but... these three in particular have raised some flags for some people, and were all FoS'd to some degree by boq, so they're on my "look closely" list

*bad vibes, inexplicably*
rari
mawile
i can't really explain the bad vibes i have as usual i just don't really get a good feeling from those two

hopefully i didn't miss anyone.  i'm not really stuck on this list and put minimal thought into it.  feel free to ask questions if you want but idfk honestly.  mario kart time


----------



## Herbe

thank you though mew


----------



## Eifie

omg don't sheep me I suck at scumreads


----------



## mewtini

ok things i have left to do: talk about neg

oh @.herbe you asked way earlier why i said you seemed self-conscious, it was just mostly bc you talked a lot earlier about how you felt uncomfortable speaking up due to being a first-timer


----------



## Herbe

kyeugh said:


> herbe (i feel like i'm missing something with this one since he's getting a lot of town leans)


i am simply a Good Boy and Friend


----------



## Eifie

@kyeugh for me the townread of Herbe is probably mostly just like, activity and feeling present in the thread. iirc he was pretty engaged at EoD yesterday which I think wolves were less likely to be. need to check because I also constantly confuse him with mewtini for some reason


----------



## Herbe

mewtini said:


> , it was just mostly bc you talked a lot earlier about how you felt uncomfortable speaking up due to being a first-timer


Yeah true. I think I'm starting to loosen up though (I hope?)


----------



## rari_teh

mewtini said:


> is this because of koko's EoD?





Herbe said:


> pitch this to me? i'm not sure i'm familiar enough w kokorico's posts to understand this


All of eir posts seem to be long, well founded and well thought out. Despite few and far-between, eir opinions don’t prey on low-hanging fruit and aren’t just reassurances of the majority thought, as would be expected from mafia. E’s vibing well enough for me to be almost sure e’s a townie with a busy-ish meat life.


----------



## mewtini

and @.rari i think you asked why i called you gullible!town, when i said it it maybe came off more rudely than i meant so i'm sorry for that. 

basically i'm currently townreading you mostly because i really like your analytical reads as a first-timer but i also think that you seem classically New to Mafia in that you jumped back and forth a lot (e.g. during the VM claim drama) but to your credit that combined with your very present self and your newness make me townread you


Herbe said:


> Yeah true. I think I'm starting to loosen up though (I hope?)


yes!

i do want to add as a small note that i still don't really get kyeugh's persistently bad vibes w rari (to the point of some especially pointed EoD remarks) but i feel better now that mawile, who i do feel weird about, is also in the bad-vibe list


----------



## mewtini

mewtini said:


> mawile, who i do feel weird about, is also in the bad-vibe list


ok my tier list does not reflect this tbh because i forgot to move him from my first list lmfao


----------



## Eifie

haha man I'm starting to see what qva was saying about rari_teh sounding like they were faking being a new player

but also if that was actually true I think they would be being even more careful about it after the accusation and not have written that post about kokorico like that


----------



## mewtini

Eifie said:


> haha man I'm starting to see what qva was saying about rari_teh sounding like they were faking being a new player
> 
> but also if that was actually true I think they would be being even more careful about it after the accusation and not have written that post about kokorico like that


tbh idk like. i feel like rari and i are kind of similar except that maybe i'm less reactionary and that i'm also the one being HYPOCRITICAL about "you seem new" when i am exactly as inexperienced, which everyone here can vouch for and that combined with how. comfy? they seemed during EoD/the maybe faking naivete (iirc they joked about it even) makes me pause even if i don't always agree w them


----------



## Keldeo

Eifie said:


> @Keldeo how likely do you think it is that this game is easy?


Mmm, not enough data to say yet imo, or maybe a better way to say it is that none of our two flips have like, completely flipped my worldview upside down, and my worldview is... similar enough to the readslists being posted?

Otter ?_? / role madness more generally = +hard
Friend ILS flipping v = ~+hard
I like the thread consensus towncore though!! = easy

I haven't critically thought about this game since the Day started, sorry. Ask me again later maybe?


----------



## rari_teh

@kyeugh when you’re done with Mario Kart, would you mind elaborating a little on your thoughts regarding Mawile? You have written enough to fill an essay about why you don’t get great vibes from me, but IIRC this is the first time you touch his name


----------



## Eifie

Keldeo said:


> Mmm, not enough data to say yet imo, or maybe a better way to say it is that none of our two flips have like, completely flipped my worldview upside down, and my worldview is... similar enough to the readslists being posted?
> 
> Otter ?_? / role madness more generally = +hard
> Friend ILS flipping v = ~+hard
> I like the thread consensus towncore though!! = easy
> 
> I haven't critically thought about this game since the Day started, sorry. Ask me again later maybe?


you think role madness = +hard?

I'm not sure I've seen a role madness game on tcodf that wasn't at least mildly townsided :p


----------



## mewtini

this isn't related and i'm still writing up some #thoughts but can we briefly acknowledge how cute bfree's flavor was


----------



## Eifie

I'm on principle not that comfortable with a lot of reads being consensus on d2 because games are almost never that easy but I also am not sure where I'd be going wrong...

if there's a mafia in my probably town list, I think it'd have to be in Herbe/rari_teh/kokorico... kyeugh is just so town and if mewtini is somehow mafia here she's going to absolutely _slay_ in champs man it's be amazing

meh. probably a bit early to be paranoid about my probably town list.


----------



## rari_teh

mewtini said:


> and @.rari i think you asked why i called you gullible!town, when i said it it maybe came off more rudely than i meant so i'm sorry for that.


No problem at all! It didn’t come as rude for me, I just wanted to understand what you meant by it ^^


mewtini said:


> i feel better now that mawile, who i do feel weird about, is also in the bad-vibe list


If that helps, I also don’t vibe well with Mawile?? Idk, I put him on my Amorphous Blob because I don’t have a good reason for that and I don’t trust my gut feelings that much


----------



## mewtini

Eifie said:


> I'm on principle not that comfortable with a lot of reads being consensus on d2 because games are almost never that easy but I also am not sure where I'd be going wrong...


just had a Vision of butterfree reading this and laughing. and now i'm depressed


----------



## Eifie

mewtini said:


> just had a Vision of butterfree reading this and laughing. and now i'm depressed


why was there still only one death last night Butterfree i am DISAPPOINT


----------



## rari_teh

Eifie said:


> why was there still only one death last night Butterfree i am DISAPPOINT


I call shielding shenanigans


----------



## mewtini

rari_teh said:


> I call shielding shenanigans


yeah. shielding or maybe nightimmune somehow?


----------



## Herbe

you also amorphous blobbed me rari
its ok its not like im gonna cry or anything


----------



## rari_teh

mewtini said:


> yeah. shielding or maybe nightimmune somehow?


Is that a thing that Exists™? Because that would be pretty fucking wild


----------



## rari_teh

Herbe said:


> you also amorphous blobbed me rari
> its ok its not like im gonna cry or anything


Hahahahah sorry! :(


----------



## mewtini

rari_teh said:


> Is that a thing that Exists™? Because that would be pretty fucking wild


kinda all i know about any not-super-popular roles is from skimming like mafiascum.net lmao but i believe that such roles do exist. idk about here obviously but


----------



## Herbe

no no its actually fine lmao reads are reads
ily


----------



## rari_teh

Herbe said:


> no no its actually fine lmao reads are reads
> ily


ily2 sz


----------



## Stryke

I've seen a lot of lists at this point and I have ranged anywhere from "Likely town" to "scum-leaning". It's nice to be seen as Mysterious and Alluring in this game.


----------



## mewtini

hard claim rari/herbe lovers tbh

this game has cute vibes rn im here for it


----------



## Eifie

whatever alignment he is I hope Stryke is getting great thrills from following along with us even though he doesn't have much to contribute


----------



## Herbe

mewtini said:


> hard claim rari/herbe lovers tbh
> 
> this game has cute vibes rn im here for it


----------



## rari_teh

Herbe said:


>


They found us out, honey :c


----------



## Ottercopter

Oh, another thing that just occured to me despite not really knowing how we'd get it to work.

We have good reason to trust IndigoEmmy since they told us about the Nano vs Magic doctor thing first! But Seshas's claim was a bit more vague and hard to verify. So have Seshas go first and say whether or not they learned anything new. If they and IE both got new info at night, then that's more reason to believe that Seshas is an MI too. If the answers contradict, that could make a good hint.

...Unless it's really common knowledge how MI's work and anyone could just be like "Of course they get new info every night, silly." I haven't played this game in a long time. Back to looking for more things!


----------



## mewtini

as i understand it MI just gets a piece of info in their role PM? but i wouldn't know

tbh i think seshas' piece of info (which they quoted) sounds exactly like bfree's writing style, and seshas isn't from tcod either so i trust that their supplied info is indeed what they got. that being said @Seshas i'm still interested in this, mostly because i don't know anything about MI other than what neg and eif have said

so idrc that seshas' claim was 'vague' when they didn't even know if rolecard quoting was allowed until dozens of posts later (after emmy had rapidclaimed)


----------



## M&F

christ, the postening is finally over. I've even managed a very once-overish read of it, like, no recollection of who exactly ended up voting whom or anything

quarantine mafia sure fucken... is. like, I was keeping up without too much trouble until that last bend; felt like it was a waste of time to even try to catch up, because there'd be another 15 pages to read once it was done. I know more than one player's expressed being simp for people who post often, but maybe just, consider not making me consider advocating for posting limits to keep this fun for more than a concentrated handful of people; the damage's already done to some extent but, forreal

anyways, useful postelage?

wrt ottercopter: since this is technically outlaw out-of-thread communication I suppose I should share with the class that, on D1, I prodded her with the fact that we were rolling and she was pretty surprised; I suppose such adds credence to her not having so much as read her role PM until crunchtime. that said, I highly doubt she's a third-party who wins by being lynched, because, panic or no, there's not a way in hell she wouldn't have kept it quiet if she'd read that; she's not new to mafia. what I do buy is that she either a) does have a convoluted but town-helpful role, in which case attempting to parse it properly in the middle of The Postening would have been genuinely headbreaking; or b) is mafia and took her time claiming because she was fishing for a quick defense, which she now has to find some way to make sound plausible.
in the former case, I do believe ottercopter really should share with the class; if activating her useful power depends on town, we can arrange for it, and if it depends on mafia, that's most likely what they're already expecting, and chances of them taking the bait, least of all on a player who's likely to get vigged on her own, are infinitesimal. in the latter case... well, in the latter case, bye otter~
(ftr, I also do not think that lynching ottercopter today would be risky at all. I do think it'd be a waste of a lynch though. vig can vig, unless it's taking vig suspiciously long to vig)
as for A God Am I: I do think it's very much possible for this to be a town role, just so long as Butterfree was running out of ideas or not too concerned with whether all of town's roles sound like town. my foremost guess would be Dreaming God, in which case, what we lost was a whole lot of swing probably
and I guess I should address that I'm being FoS'd? I can't exactly claim or disclaim what mafia was planning when they killed boquise (although that'll be my next subject of analysis, if executive dysfunction doesn't get the better of me this time), but I can mention I've at the very least persistently mentioned my suspicion of Keldeo as far as reads go, and I've been nothing if not very clear about why I was absent for EoD. I'm not really in the habit of trying to read every single player, especially not on D1; this, I presume long-time players will find consistent with my behavior on older games


----------



## M&F

(and oh yeah, I should also mention my read on Panini: my read on Panini is I don't even know if they were around on EoD either)


----------



## Stryke

Eifie said:


> whatever alignment he is I hope Stryke is getting great thrills from following along with us even though he doesn't have much to contribute


Believe me I'm having the time of my life watching it unfold


----------



## mewtini

maybe i need to rethink my mf read ...


M&F said:


> a) does have a convoluted but town-helpful role, in which case attempting to parse it properly in the middle of The Postening would have been genuinely headbreaking; or b) is mafia and took her time claiming because she was fishing for a quick defense, which she now has to find some way to make sound plausible.


exactly my spec rn on her


----------



## mewtini

ok this is bad lol i feel kind of useless once i end up anywhere near "And Now I Have No Scumreads"-land


----------



## kyeugh

simply vote one of my scumleans


----------



## mewtini

kyeugh said:


> simply vote one of my scumleans


aight bro lets go


----------



## M&F

mewtini said:


> maybe i need to rethink my mf read ...


however self-sabotagetastic, my advice is not to base your reads too much on who agrees with you : P


----------



## rari_teh

M&F said:


> since this is technically outlaw out-of-thread communication I suppose I should share with the class that, on D1, I prodded her with the fact that we were rolling and she was pretty surprised; I suppose such adds credence to her not having so much as read her role PM until crunchtime.


Welp, if prodding is technically outlawed then I’m an outlaw as well, as I’ve emailed Odie_Pie a “come play” (I’ve even stated that a thousand posts ago). Here’s a screenshot of my email so that no information is missed (the comment about the dogs is bc her blog, from which I took her email address, is pretty much about dog pics and legacy computers)


M&F said:


> and I guess I should address that I'm being FoS'd? I can't exactly claim or disclaim what mafia was planning when they killed boquise (although that'll be my next subject of analysis, if executive dysfunction doesn't get the better of me this time), but I can mention I've at the very least persistently mentioned my suspicion of Keldeo as far as reads go, and I've been nothing if not very clear about why I was absent for EoD. I'm not really in the habit of trying to read every single player, especially not on D1; this, I presume long-time players will find consistent with my behavior on older games


Wild thought: maybe mafia killed Boquise _expecting that we would suspect of MF and Panini?_


----------



## Herbe

rari_teh said:


> Wild thought: maybe mafia killed Boquise _expecting that we would suspect of MF and Panini?_


brave man, considering eifie said she'd side-eye anyone who said that today lmao


----------



## mewtini

M&F said:


> however self-sabotagetastic, my advice is not to base your reads too much on who agrees with you : P


oh for sure, that's not why i'm contemplating a rethink. idrk what to make of the fact that you weren't really around during d1; even though i totally buy inactivity because of real life?!?!, you still had time to make very long tropeladen posts ... and i like the content of your post now, not just because i agree, but because it takes effort and it seems like you did read back a fair enough bit, so the pure Effort Points i wanna give you are fucking with my head



rari_teh said:


> (the comment about the dogs is bc her blog, from which I took her email address, is pretty much about dog pics and legacy computers)


lmfao i love that you also have stalked her DOG BLOG omg twins


----------



## Eifie

rari_teh said:


> Wild thought: maybe mafia killed Boquise _expecting that we would suspect of MF and Panini?_


----------



## kyeugh

rari_teh said:


> Wild thought: maybe mafia killed Boquise _expecting that we would suspect of MF and Panini?_


@Eifie scolding time


----------



## rari_teh

Herbe said:


> brave man, considering eifie said she'd side-eye anyone who said that today lmao


I skimmed over that line lol

Sorry Eif, don’t scumread me over that plz


----------



## Eifie

with that poignant final post I am going to sleep


----------



## kyeugh

mewtini said:


> oh for sure, that's not why i'm contemplating a rethink. idrk what to make of the fact that you weren't really around during d1; even though i totally buy inactivity because of real life?!?!, you still had time to make very long tropeladen posts ... and i like the content of your post now, not just because i agree, but because it takes effort and it seems like you did read back a fair enough bit, so the pure Effort Points i wanna give you are fucking with my head


not making an effort is lowkey towny tbh
this hasn’t really changed my thoughts on mf but also i wasn’t scumreading her to begin with


----------



## mewtini

kyeugh said:


> not making an effort is lowkey towny tbh


oh fair. i think i keep forgetting that boq, <whoever else agreed>, and i all felt weird about mf long after she'd last appeared in thread. that being said, don't the long posts themselves count as ... effort? idk


----------



## mewtini

echoing a sentiment from way earlier that making big I Am Here, I Am Reading, Because I Am Town And I Totally Care posts are what flag this for me, but it's hard to tell with mf because it could also have been just pure memes, but pure memes that make me townread/neutralread don't usually take that much time to write


----------



## rari_teh

mewtini said:


> even though i totally buy inactivity because of real life?!?!, you still had time to make very long tropeladen posts


I agree that is indeed very suspicious, but idk how much time she spends on TV Tropes when she’s idling – with that I mean, it’s not out of the question the possibility of her being a heavy contributor to TV Tropes and knowing a lot of trope names from the top of the mind, which would make tropelinking very easy, but I do acknowledge that’s farfetched and most likely not the case


----------



## mewtini

hahaha oh i think mf is just a tropes addict. i just think the actual time it takes to even write the enclosing posts could have been at least somewhat spent reading like. 10 surrounding pages at least overall. in which case i wouldn't be suspecting rn. 

just to be clear i'm not scumreading, this is just currently one of the only directions i have any interest in atm


----------



## kyeugh

rari_teh said:


> I agree that is indeed very suspicious, but idk how much time she spends on TV Tropes when she’s idling – with that I mean, it’s not out of the question the possibility of her being a heavy contributor to TV Tropes and knowing a lot of trope names from the top of the mind, which would make tropelinking very easy, but I do acknowledge that’s farfetched and most likely not the case


i think it probably is the case tbh


----------



## rari_teh

mewtini said:


> it's hard to tell with mf because it could also have been just pure memes, but pure memes that make me townread/neutralread don't usually take that much time to write


Thanks for putting into words why Eifie’s memeing sounds towny and M&F’s don’t


----------



## mewtini

yeah. basically i need to shut up so i can write what i promised to post forever ago but the reason mf is in my hmmm pile is largely that she sunk enough time into this thread to not be inactive (and she def wasn't a lurker or anything) but willingly didn't use that time to read back or help town much until now? ugh idk i'm confusing myself


----------



## rari_teh

mewtini said:


> hahaha oh i think mf is just a tropes addict.





kyeugh said:


> i think it probably is the case tbh


Since y’all actually know MF and I don’t, I’ll agree with you and retract my statement on the farfetchedness.



rari_teh said:


> M&F’s don’t


**doesn’t*, you stupid espurr


----------



## M&F

mewtini said:


> oh for sure, that's not why i'm contemplating a rethink. idrk what to make of the fact that you weren't really around during d1; even though i totally buy inactivity because of real life?!?!, you still had time to make very long tropeladen posts ... and i like the content of your post now, not just because i agree, but because it takes effort and it seems like you did read back a fair enough bit, so the pure Effort Points i wanna give you are fucking with my head


I mean, I thought I was plenty active on D1; not on the post-per-second level that some folks have reached, but it was just EoD specifically that I couldn't keep up with. it's why I'm only really complaining now; I understand that mafia is a time commitment, it's just not normally to that level in TCoD



kyeugh said:


> not making an effort is lowkey towny tbh


I hate to self-sabotage yet again, but I beg to differ; not making an effort is like, the low-risk approach to being scum

(if anything, folks who usually play with me would know that "low-risk" is no part of my playbook, but that's neither here nor there)


----------



## mewtini

M&F said:


> I mean, I thought I was plenty active on D1


you'll probably see this when you keep reading downthread but i didn't mean 'not around' as in inactive, i meant as in noncontributory


----------



## rari_teh

M&F said:


> I hate to self-sabotage yet again, but I beg to differ


Big brain time: self-sabotage _could_ be a strategy to sound towny


----------



## M&F

also, for the record, linking to tropes really doesn't take all that long; remember that part where I did it on mobile,

only reason why I'm not doing it now because I just link to whatever tropes spontaneously come to me, and right now my head is pretty empty (in fact, I'm halfway sure that there's like a dumbness trope that applies to that last sentence, but)


----------



## mewtini

LOL though idk how i feel about this brand of spec :/


----------



## rari_teh

In a _nothing-to-lose_ way, that is

I must wait 18 seconds before the Xenforo gods allow me to post


----------



## mewtini

M&F said:


> also, for the record, linking to tropes really doesn't take all that long


god sorry i feel like i keep just grilling. it's not that i think you spent hours it's just that i would think a stereotypical town would devote like 5 of those 10 minutes to just catch up or say _something_ else

and honestly maybe i'm just really scared of mf because i know shes a veteran player and i'm swayed by eif


----------



## rari_teh

@M&F sorry if it’s coming off as if I’m trying to throw shade at you, but I couldn’t not post that thought


----------



## Eifie

I'll try to post less for MF

now zzz


----------



## kyeugh

i don’t think amount of effort really means anything tbh
but if anything i think scum is under more pressure to speak up than town bc town (esp vt) doesn’t really care if it dies esp d1
and there was a lot of talk about lynching yesterday


mewtini said:


> LOL though idk how i feel about this brand of spec :/


bad tbh


----------



## kyeugh

kyeugh said:


> and there was a lot of talk about lynching yesterday


 lynching inactives that is


----------



## mewtini

kyeugh said:


> i don’t think amount of effort really means anything tbh
> but if anything i think scum is under more pressure to speak up than town bc town (esp vt) doesn’t really care if it dies esp d1
> and there was a lot of talk about lynching yesterday
> 
> bad tbh


pointless post to say that i especially agree with everything in this post (beyond what a react could convey)
i have some thinking to do


----------



## rari_teh

mewtini said:


> and honestly maybe i'm just really scared of mf because i know shes a veteran player and i'm swayed by eif


I also must admit that if Eif didn’t FoS MF and Panini I’d have given less thought to them and probably even put ’em on the Amorphous Blob


----------



## kyeugh

i think it’s fair to be overwhelmed by this game and mf’s posts tend to be wordy regardless of alignment ime
that’s not grounds to clear her but i don’t think it’s really solid to lean scum on her for these reasons either


----------



## mewtini

i'll defer to you dude, i don't really know anything about mf's playstyle. she can be in my amorphous blob for now


----------



## kyeugh

eif is leaning scum on mf and knows her just as well if not better so idk
but i’m not reaaaally feeling it rn personally
oh yeah i’m supposed to explain mawile huh


----------



## kyeugh

here is a grain of salt for you before reading this post: i did not check back over mawile's posts before writing it
my impression of mawile is basically that he comes in to say either a) something that seems like insight but actually doesn't really get us anywhere, like the paragraph about whether boq was third party or not which both doesn't matter and didn't even reach a conclusion, or b) to express a read that i have disagreed with pretty much every time so far
that is pretty much the basis of my lean


----------



## M&F

rari_teh said:


> Big brain time: self-sabotage _could_ be a strategy to sound towny


lots of things can be either towny or a deliberate scum cover! 's the spice of the game, is it not? so by all means, WIFOM me babey,



mewtini said:


> god sorry i feel like i keep just grilling. it's not that i think you spent hours it's just that i would think a stereotypical town would devote like 5 of those 10 minutes to just catch up or say _something_ else
> 
> and honestly maybe i'm just really scared of mf because i know shes a veteran player and i'm swayed by eif


I'm going to like, acknolwedge that you've said so, but not prompt the grilling to drag itself all the way out; that'd just be defensive anyway

admittedly, I'm not sure where this persistent perspective that I've been uncontributive comes from, besides that Eifie said so; I'm not going to ask anyone to prove the absence of something but



rari_teh said:


> I also must admit that if Eif didn’t FoS MF and Panini I’d have given less thought to them and probably even put ’em on the Amorphous Blob


thus, the mystery of the very similar alignment opinions is solved in a less spectacular fashion than expected-

anyways, just mostly getting these out of my mind as I'm doing some digging right now; if I'm successful, expect:

a tighter handle on what boquise posted that might have gotten him killed, besides some vague recollection of who he's FoS'd;
a close look at who finished EoD with their vote on ILS -- underrated avenue so far btw


----------



## rari_teh

a) is definitely a part of why he vibes weirdly to me, but b) isn’t. What do you think, @mewtini?


----------



## mewtini

kyeugh said:


> here is a grain of salt for you before reading this post: i did not check back over mawile's posts before writing it
> my impression of mawile is basically that he comes in to say either a) something that seems like insight but actually doesn't really get us anywhere, like the paragraph about whether boq was third party or not which both doesn't matter and didn't even reach a conclusion, or b) to express a read that i have disagreed with pretty much every time so far
> that is pretty much the basis of my lean


i agree. just to clarify - part of rari's q was that, while you've been consistently unsure on them, you only now have listed mawile under that tier; did something change? i've kind of been hinting at my own discomfort for a while but i'm wondering where your turning point was


----------



## rari_teh

M&F said:


> a close look at who finished EoD with their vote on ILS -- underrated avenue so far btw


----------



## kyeugh

mewtini said:


> i agree. just to clarify - part of rari's q was that, while you've been consistently unsure on them, you only now have listed mawile under that tier; did something change? i've kind of been hinting at my own discomfort for a while but i'm wondering where your turning point was


i have pushed back on most of their posts so while it's true i haven't come out and say "i get bad vibes from this person" i don't really think it's out of the blue.  that was my first read list after all
nothing really changed except for that i didn't really feel like putting ONLY rari in my bad vibes list because that's not really accurate and also makes it look like i feel much more strongly about that read than i do


----------



## kyeugh

pretend my grammar/pronouns etc are right in that post
i just keep calling everyone "they" and then go back to check/adjust before posting but forget sometimes. :|


----------



## mewtini

M&F said:


> so by all means, WIFOM me babey,


hahahaha



M&F said:


> admittedly, I'm not sure where this persistent perspective that I've been uncontributive comes from, besides that Eifie said so; I'm not going to ask anyone to prove the absence of something but


i actually (truly) thought it before eifie ever said it, her and boq talking about it just gave me the #courage to say anything. i feel like you haven't produced much original content and have only posted about sentiments that were prevailing at the time (and even if you went 'against' the grain it was still in league with OTHER prevailing sentiments). that's kind of it. i can postdig if it helps


----------



## mewtini

rari_teh said:


> a) is definitely a part of why he vibes weirdly to me, but b) isn’t. What do you think, @mewtini?


b) isn't quite but i think mawile's reads have been either been something i disagreed with OR just so uninteresting that it doesn't mean a lot to me


----------



## mewtini

kyeugh said:


> i have pushed back on most of their posts so while it's true i haven't come out and say "i get bad vibes from this person" i don't really think it's out of the blue. that was my first read list after all


yeah, sorry! my phrasing sounded accusatory, i just wanted confirmation of this


----------



## mewtini

also you've pushed back against a lot of people and have been pretty good at being investigatory, so i wasn't sure if that was significant or a trend with mawile for you either. or if it was just another person you were getting info out of


----------



## rari_teh

kyeugh said:


> i just keep calling everyone "they" and then go back to check/adjust before posting but forget sometimes. :|


r/me_irl


----------



## kyeugh

mewtini said:


> also you've pushed back against a lot of people and have been pretty good at being investigatory, so i wasn't sure if that was significant or a trend with mawile for you either. or if it was just another person you were getting info out of


oh nah you're good haha, i didn't think you were being accusatory.  was just explaining
i am not usually a proponent of scumreading people bc their posts are only surface level bc i think that plenty of town players just... don't reach those deep insights as easily, and that's fine
but that combined with the consistently disagreeable reads is enough for me to start feeling weird


----------



## mewtini

kyeugh said:


> i am not usually a proponent of scumreading people bc their posts are only surface level bc i think that plenty of town players just... don't reach those deep insights as easily, and that's fine


(my final mf note for now, i swear: i agree w this reasoning generally, i am pushing a little bit at mf for it because i know she doesn't just fall into "plenty of town")


----------



## kyeugh

mm.  i'd agree but also i kind of believe that she's getting lost in the sauce with this immense deluge of Posting so i'm kind of willing to give her the benefit of the doubt for now
hopefully she's more active toDay though


----------



## rari_teh

Butterfree said:


> No vote (6) (Flora, JackPK, Stryke, IndigoEmmy, Odie_Pie, kokorico)


Undead JackPK confirmed (not really)


----------



## rari_teh

A thought just crossed my mind: if Negrek was mafia _and_ lying about her powers, it wouldn’t make sense for them to not kill Vipera this night. I mean, someone could’ve shielded VM, but then again who’d have killed Boq in that scenario?
Also, if Negrek is town, she has no good reason to lie about her powers, so she’s likely town.

Actually, wait a minute: why didn’t the mafia kill who’s likely to be the only doctor standing, namely VM?


----------



## mewtini

negrek post/EoD analysis incoming but 



rari_teh said:


> A thought just crossed my mind: if Negrek was mafia _and_ lying about her powers, it wouldn’t make sense for them to not kill Vipera this night. I mean, someone could’ve shielded VM, but then again who’d have killed Boq in that scenario?
> Also, if Negrek is town, she has no good reason to lie about her powers, so she’s likely town.
> 
> Actually, wait a minute: why didn’t the mafia kill who’s likely to be the only doctor standing, namely VM?


i kind of uncomfortably disagree with a lot of this

i think negrek lying => dead end tbh. then again she didn't make her roleclaim knowing she would get immediately hit with VM's role, which exists as a direct factcheck if he pops back in, _but_ making such an aggressive lie part of your play doesn't jive with her absence later and i think she's probably? good enough at mafia to know that.

also i think it's more likely than you think that VM got shielded or something. idk why boq ended up getting killed and it doesn't totally make sense to me either (i'm very anti-loopy spec mostly but i did admittedly wonder about if it was that he was FoS'ing certain players, i only admit that to say that i have no idea why he got killed). no one really knows wtf deadly doctor is other than VM probably so maybe maf didn't care, i have no clue

but idk if i believe neg is town just yet. hence extensiveish post coming soon


----------



## mewtini

ok reading back maybe i don't totally _uncomfortably disagree_ i just got a weird feeling when i read it and i never revised that sentence, hmm. idk


----------



## rari_teh

What does “anti-loopy spec” mean? Sorry for asking, but Google didn’t do favours


----------



## mewtini

rari_teh said:


> What does “anti-loopy spec” mean? Sorry for asking, but Google didn’t do favours


pretty much conspiracy theory/out there spec


----------



## Ottercopter

I think it means that roles appear flipped? Like, a town person showing up as Mafia when they die. I was an inspector in my first game, and a townie looked like mafia and a terrorist showed up as town. Bleh.

(I may not post that much tomorrow because I haven't been productive in a few days and this game's kind of a time sink. But I'll try and keep up!)


----------



## kyeugh

i don't really get why we're assuming vm got shielded?  i keep seeing this tossed around and don't get it

like in order for that to be true we have to make all of these assumptions:
- there are two killers (i.e. a mafia and a vig)
- there is a shielder of some kind
- the mafia targetted vm
- the shielder protected vm
- the vig targeted boq fsr
- also, the vig was either inactive n0 or the shielder happened to guess a target correctly that night too
for another thing i don't really understand what a "shielder" is supposed to be—to me it sounds identical to a doctor, which i don't think is what you're talking about here, or else a bodyguard, which would have died when they took the shot for vm

this is all vs the more obvious conclusion of
- there is no vig
- the mafia targeted boq last night fsr


----------



## mewtini

(dw! i just made up the phrase so i'm glad you asked, i'm really bad with that sometimes. both online and irl lol)


----------



## Ottercopter

Whoops, never mind. '-'


----------



## mewtini

kyeugh said:


> i don't really get why we're assuming vm got shielded? i keep seeing this tossed around and don't get it


oh i'm not assuming. just don't think it was impossible that it happened, but i also didn't think about it very hard and i appreciate your post ha


----------



## kyeugh

i think i'm misremembering how much this got brought up but rari keeps bringing up the shielding and eif keeps talking about a vig too and i feel like all the evidence points to these two things probably not existing (or, well, the vig not existing at least)
i mean i suppose it's _possible_ the vig just did nothing n0 and then got blocked last night but idk what the point in tossing that idea around rn is tbh


----------



## rari_teh

kyeugh said:


> i don't really get why we're assuming vm got shielded?  i keep seeing this tossed around and don't get it
> 
> like in order for that to be true we have to make all of these assumptions:
> - there are two killers (i.e. a mafia and a vig)
> - there is a shielder of some kind
> - the mafia targetted vm
> - the shielder protected vm
> - the vig targeted boq fsr
> - also, the vig was either inactive n0 or the shielder happened to guess a target correctly that night too
> for another thing i don't really understand what a "shielder" is supposed to be—to me it sounds identical to a doctor, which i don't think is what you're talking about here, or else a bodyguard, which would have died when they took the shot for vm
> 
> this is all vs the more obvious conclusion of
> - there is no vig
> - the mafia targeted boq last night fsr


We agree for once


----------



## rari_teh

Ottercopter said:


> I was an inspector in my first game, and a townie looked like mafia and a terrorist showed up as town. Bleh.


Terrorists show up as town AFAIK, but @.experienced players, is there a common-ish town role that flips mafia? o_O


----------



## kyeugh

miller


----------



## kyeugh

i'm still not 100% convinced we have an alignment cop tbh


----------



## rari_teh

kyeugh said:


> miller


Big yikes


kyeugh said:


> i'm still not 100% convinced we have an alignment cop tbh


What makes you think that?


----------



## mewtini

kyeugh said:


> i'm still not 100% convinced we have an alignment cop tbh


i'm still writing my thing but i have some reasons to believe that eifie is actually a legit cop (also rari has hypocopped and mentioned their read once in early thread and again recently, and their read coincides with eifie's mr. ultracool green)


----------



## kyeugh

awaiting longpost before engaging w that tbh


----------



## kyeugh

rari_teh said:


> What makes you think that?


nothing in particular i guess, it just seems like the roles we know of so far have either had some wacky drawback or been based on trope rather than up front knowledge


----------



## Mawile

kyeugh said:


> nothing in particular i guess, it just seems like the roles we know of so far have either had some wacky drawback or been based on trope rather than up front knowledge


Eifie did mention not being able to choose her targets. What roles are you thinking of that have a wacky drawback?


----------



## mewtini

lmfao i totally just deleted the two paragraphs i'd written so here we go again

i didn't think anything of negrek during d1 and i believe her roleclaim as i said above; it's kind of stupid to fake and wouldn't have done anything positively for her if she were non-green. she also did give us a role for d2 and i credit her with an early post where she actually volunteered info about tvt mafia #1 to give seshas some credibility; she did pretty well when she was around early game to play the mediation game, i think, which does make me autotrust people more

however i feel like incredibly weird about her EoD. her big long post in 1186 was really, like, kind of all over the place i thought (and someone else, i think keldeo, called it a 'throwaway read' a bit later - this was why i asked keldeo directly what he thought about neg. kel if it wasn't you i'm sorry for the misfired q). 



Negrek said:


> At this point I would certainly like to hear more out of ILS, but he wouldn't be my first lynch target. He (and Stryke, and Ottercopter) have at least shown an interest in engaging with what's going on, while I agree there isn't much value in voting out Odi_Pie. So, with that in mind, I think my vote is actually *RedNeckPhoenix*, since as far as I'm aware he hasn't shown up to except to comment a couple of times on how fast the game is moving. I would hope to see more out of ILS, Stryke, and Ottercopter in the future, but I don't actually see any of them as particularly mafia at this point, and if they're actually going to play then we'll learn more about them anyhow; if not, then they will make easy lynch targets if there's no more obvious target later on.


this didn't make a ton of sense to me (her logic about RNP versus odie was like ... a hybrid of my logic about RNP/ILS lynch > odie, except that she was against odie and ILS?). also she then literally said



Negrek said:


> As far as I can see, the only posts where he's accused anyone of anything are one where he said he was getting "kinda not great vibes from" rari_teh and one where he was "a little suspicious of VM." The VM one in particular *I'm not sure what he's getting at*, but these don't really seem like "callouts" to me? Or much of a pattern? *Posting vague things like this and then poofing is maybe a little like the mafia putting out feelers*, but if actually mafia I feel like he wouldn't have just vanished after that last VM post once it became clear he'd drawn unwelcome attention with it.
> 
> *The point about an RNP lynch not giving much information is fair*; I'd kind of been thinking of all inactive lynches being pretty much equal here, but what would ILS' alignment tell us?


(i also will note that the "kinda not great vibes" quote is not what i considered the most important part of the ILS post that i had been trying to figure things out from, and at the time i felt a little like neg was cherrypicking. that being said i fucked up and ILS clearly wasn't even mafia so that's a huge feelsbad)

_anyway_ and then kyeugh's reply to it validated me a bit in feeling that it was a contradictory post and also exactly sums up what i felt when i read it (also note that kyeugh wasn't even on board with the ILS wagon that i believed in at the time)



kyeugh said:


> i feel like this wasnt your intention but this post is communicating to me that an rnp vote and an ils one aren’t really that different in terms of information yield, and you concede that ils has done things that could be regarded as mildly suspicious even if you don’t think it’s damning whereas rnp is basically just null


and neg then directly said



Negrek said:


> No, that's accurate. If lynching either is equivalent in terms of information gained, I'd rather go for the person who doesn't appear to have any interest in playing. _If an ILS lynch would give us more information, that's the better choice._
> I will admit that I'm also reluctant to go for an ILS lynch because I truly don't understand why mewtini's so adamant about it.


italics felt like a retcon imo

basically the tldr as of now is that i thought negrek was putting undue effort into defending ILS, and this was honestly why i stayed the course with ILS and didn't switch to otter during this part of EoD. however, negrek _then_ issued a post that i now kind of view as an attempt to appease ... someone? me? idk:


Negrek said:


> Sorry if that ["idk why mewtini's so adamant about it from above quote"] came across as dismissive. I understand your rationale, it just doesn't seem like such a big deal to me.
> 
> But I will change my vote to *ILiekSquirtles*.


also, idk if this helps/which of my Dear Readers rn are trusting keldeo, but he had voted ILS with me before this negrek convo went down. when he voted ottercopter, it was just after this post (leading me to believe that maybe he, like me, thought negrek was suspiciously defending ILS) and iirc that's what prompted the mass exodus to the otter wagon.

*** another thing that i didn't feel like putting here via quotes is that negrek was _weirdly_ insistent on the qva/kyeugh tell, even after boq (rip) said that it felt suspicious for the derailing value it had, and i can't help but feel bad about it. also i see the point that eifie made, which was that manually searching the thread for "qva"'s first appearance seemed worthy of giving negrek Effort Points, but i also think that that mechanical effort is mentally low effort and one that would have benefitted unsavory!neg


----------



## mewtini

uh ok i didnt know how long that was. this sounds fake now that i realize exactly how longposty that was but i'm not really scumreading negrek yet, either, but i guess maybe she is the closest i have to such a read


----------



## kyeugh

mostly just the doctors, which i assume kill their targets when/if they clash
but also a lot of the roles have drawbacks in the sense that they're just passive even when they're informational, like negrek's/vm's/the MIs


----------



## mewtini

mewtini said:


> however, negrek _then_ issued a post that i now kind of view as an attempt to appease ... someone? me? idk:


i meant to emphasize that i really expected to have to fight a bit more to convince her, and it felt like maybe she just realized she was in the minority or something at this point and wanted to back out of it as well as she could


----------



## kyeugh

mewtini said:


> also, idk if this helps/which of my Dear Readers rn are trusting keldeo, but he had voted ILS with me before this negrek convo went down. when he voted ottercopter, it was just after this post (leading me to believe that maybe he, like me, thought negrek was suspiciously defending ILS) and iirc that's what prompted the mass exodus to the otter wagon.


eh i think this was bc he wanted to keep the wagons even tbh


mewtini said:


> *** another thing that i didn't feel like putting here via quotes is that negrek was _weirdly_ insistent on the qva/kyeugh tell, even after boq (rip) said that it felt suspicious for the derailing value it had, and i can't help but feel bad about it. also i see the point that eifie made, which was that manually searching the thread for "qva"'s first appearance seemed worthy of giving negrek Effort Points, but i also think that that mechanical effort is mentally low effort and one that would have benefitted unsavory!neg


and i'm pretty sure this was bc me and eifie kept talking about it, haha

the rest of the post is something, tbh, although i feel like the fact that ils indeed turned out to be a doctor kind of nullifies a lot of it?  idk.  negrek clearly wasn't defending a scummate so idk how their defense of him really implicates them exactly even if it did appear undue


----------



## mewtini

kyeugh said:


> eh i think this was bc he wanted to keep the wagons even tbh


i thought that too when i was writing but keldeo's "I'm vibing. <ILS vote>" to "I am no longer vibing <opposite wagon vote>" makes me unsure?



kyeugh said:


> idk. negrek clearly wasn't defending a scummate so idk how their defense of him really implicates them exactly even if it did appear undue


i'm not super concerned with whether neg was actually defending a scummate or not, it was that it seemed kind of like walls of text that existed to stall actual spec and weren't very infopacked either. i also am disadvantaged by not knowing neg's playstyle, it just seemed like somewhat erratic behavior


----------



## mewtini

honestly i might just be salty still and i understand what you're saying. i just feel weird vibes. that is all


----------



## kyeugh

i absolutely do not know negrek's playstyle either so input from someone who does would be good
(relatedly, rip to all the people who wake up to like four pages of just three people talking lol.)
it's true that their posts weren't really info-packed but i'd argue that it's bc their position wasn't really coming from a place of reasoning, but rather wanting to keep players in who intended on actually playing the game, and lynching players who didn't.  so they weren't really trying to convince you of a logical case against rnp/for ils so much as getting you to understand their viewpoint about what _kind_ of person ought to be lynched ig?
i could be wrong but i feel like during that debate you were placing a vote based on an actual read and they were placing theirs based on principle
and if that's true then by nature they're not really going to be info-packed since they're kind of just editorial
ultimately i think a useful way to come at it is, like...  assume negrek has shifty motivations, then try and work out whether their actions make sense under that pretense.  i don't really think they do


----------



## mewtini

ok! that's totally fair honestly, ty for putting it into perspective for me tbh

what i will say though is that, like. i'm not going to lie, i'm slightly distrustful of this motivation 


kyeugh said:


> but rather wanting to keep players in who intended on actually playing the game, and lynching players who didn't


when others have cited it and i kind of think it sounds a bit like an easy cop-out to drag people away because it can substitute for a lack of town-establishing evidence, which maybe worsened my view


----------



## mewtini

i know that what i said doesn't work in my exact post (since it was about ILS). i just do not like that in and of itself


----------



## kyeugh

i agree tbh.  i do not really like it either but i believe they believe it


----------



## M&F

alright, so, before I fall too far behind the present discussion, I'll share what I've found up until about page 50:



Boquise said:


> I understand that there is weight in analysing the death of Jack and the circumstances in the obituary, since it is seemingly relevant based on the past game, but it is a bit unstimulating and I don't really see how that catches scum?





Boquise said:


> the farfetch'd dude seems town because i get those vibes.
> 
> I have only played with Keldeo once I think and he was scum. Maybe he is similar here but too little data.
> I am a bit suspicious of Eifie for starting and talking about the N1 post and the circumstances about Jack so much and I am a bit surprised that she hasn't complained about my inactivity
> 
> But that sounds like silly things to scum read someone for tbh


(a/n: he reneged on that FoS at Eifie just a few posts later because she did ping him)


Boquise said:


> Why did you abstain from wanting to say who you were/are suspicious of?


(was aimed at Keldeo)


Boquise said:


> thats why i am not giving him a town read atm tbh
> thing is, i feel like eifie would get Keldeo if he is scum and she is town. So yeah.


so yeah, I don't know if he's going to flip the switch on that later, but as far as I am in this search, boquise was pretty vocal about FoSing Keldeo; maybe it's the confirmation bias getting to me, but also, it's not a fantastic look on the people who've been lowkey pocketing him, is it? I think kyeugh's been at it and maybe Eifie a little but my memory on this matter is kind of a blur; maybe that's gonna have to be a third thing to investigate

anyways, anyways, current subjects!

as for why VM wasn't targeted, I do think the far simplest explanation is that the mob expected him to be protected, even with one healer down. I'd say this lends additional credence to the theory that there were three doctors running around, and one was quite possibly scum
who's posted their cop covers yet? I think Eifie did but I don't know if anyone else did, and it's frustratingly topical despite that I was really hoping not to have to post mine very early


----------



## mewtini

final thing: that logic is also inconsistent when she avoided an odie lynch. but. maybe i'm just. really ?!?!?! about everyone who i felt added unnecessary chaos to EoD which is pretty much just negrek and RNP. also neg mostly sidestepped the otter discussion while peripherally mentioning it, which makes me (and yes, this is a reach) go  was it a ploy to get us away from otter?!?! but that's awk territory for me, who sort of likes otter rn.

(again, this doesn't really promote evil!neg, just possibly-oddly-interested-in-distraction!neg)

basically lol sorry maybe this was also a slight waste of reading time, but that's my out-on-a-limb theory for the night


----------



## mewtini

M&F said:


> who's posted their cop covers yet? I think Eifie did but I don't know if anyone else did, and it's frustratingly topical despite that I was really hoping not to have to post mine very early


eifie and rari!


----------



## M&F

two's better than one I guess!

what I _think_ my results are telling me is that Mawile (n0) and Negrek (n1) are both town.


----------



## mewtini

Huh.


----------



## rari_teh

mewtini said:


> i'm still writing my thing but i have some reasons to believe that eifie is actually a legit cop (also rari has hypocopped and mentioned their read once in early thread and again recently, and their read coincides with eifie's mr. ultracool green)


That doesn’t necessarily make sense? If I’m not mistaken, Eifie and I were not the only ones to give hypo reads on d1, and I didn’t even hypo on d2 because really what’s the point if only two people do it




kyeugh said:


> mostly just the doctors, which i assume kill their targets when/if they clash


Isn’t that true of any two doctors in pretty much every mafia game? I’m pretty sure I read that in the rules sticky


----------



## mewtini

rari_teh said:


> That doesn’t necessarily make sense? If I’m not mistaken, Eifie and I were not the only ones to give hypo reads on d1, and I didn’t even hypo on d2 because really what’s the point if only two people do it


ftr my "some reasons" != the parenthetical clause.

i think the only other hypo that i can recall was kyeugh and fsr i read it as a meme when she did

what doesn't make sense?


----------



## kyeugh

M&F said:


> alright, so, before I fall too far behind the present discussion, I'll share what I've found up until about page 50:
> [some posts]


i'm not sure where i stand on this but thought i'd throw this post in there, which stands out in my memory but it doesn't seem you've included unless i'm just glossing over it



M&F said:


> so yeah, I don't know if he's going to flip the switch on that later, but as far as I am in this search, boquise was pretty vocal about FoSing Keldeo; maybe it's the confirmation bias getting to me, but also, it's not a fantastic look on the people who've been lowkey pocketing him, is it? I think kyeugh's been at it and maybe Eifie a little but my memory on this matter is kind of a blur; maybe that's gonna have to be a third thing to investigate


are you saying i'm pocketing keldeo?  or being pocketed by keldeo?  i'm not sure what you mean here



M&F said:


> anyways, anyways, current subjects!
> 
> as for why VM wasn't targeted, I do think the far simplest explanation is that the mob expected him to be protected, even with one healer down. I'd say this lends additional credence to the theory that there were three doctors running around, and one was quite possibly scum
> who's posted their cop covers yet? I think Eifie did but I don't know if anyone else did, and it's frustratingly topical despite that I was really hoping not to have to post mine very early


agree on the first point.  cop cover: n0 green keldeo, n1 green stryke


----------



## kyeugh

rari_teh said:


> Isn’t that true of any two doctors in pretty much every mafia game? I’m pretty sure I read that in the rules sticky


i have literally never at any point in my mafia career encountered this situation


----------



## Vipera Magnifica

I haven't really been able to keep up with the discussion but uhh, I inherited the role White Mage. Seems like your standard doctor role but the flavor also hints towards there being some other kind of doctor that heals using technology.

The fact I didn't get Deadly Doctor is what interests me more. I guess it either means Negrek was lying, or I got ILS' role because Jack was actually mafia?


----------



## Negrek

I will respond to actual discussion later, but can we not do the cop cover thing? I get that it's supposed to give us reliable alignment reads if the cop dies before they can claim, but _we are not going to know when the cop dies_. I don't see it doing anything for us outside of helping narrow down who's an actual cop for the mafia.

Unless I'm missing something! But if I'm understanding the strategy correctly, it seems like something that makes sense in a game where roles are revealed on death but which is Bad for a setup like this.


----------



## mewtini

Vipera Magnifica said:


> I haven't really been able to keep up with the discussion but uhh, I inherited the role White Mage. Seems like your standard doctor role but the flavor also hints towards there being some other kind of doctor that heals using technology.
> 
> The fact I didn't get Deadly Doctor is what interests me more. I guess it either means Negrek was lying, or I got ILS' role because Jack was actually mafia?


it's ok. it's speedy. thanks for claiming. guessing the tech flavor is just to stay consistent with emmy's MI intel?

but uh. big Hrmmmmm. about the second sentence


----------



## kyeugh

Negrek said:


> I will respond to actual discussion later, but can we not do the cop cover thing? I get that it's supposed to give us reliable alignment reads if the cop dies before they can claim, but _we are not going to know when the cop dies_. I don't see it doing anything for us outside of helping narrow down who's an actual cop for the mafia.
> 
> Unless I'm missing something! But if I'm understanding the strategy correctly, it seems like something that makes sense in a game where roles are revealed on death but which is Bad for a setup like this.


as long as you're alive we will probably know when the cop dies


----------



## M&F

kyeugh said:


> are you saying i'm pocketing keldeo?  or being pocketed by keldeo?  i'm not sure what you mean here


that you're pocketing him, but you did just volunteer an additional boquise FoS from farther ahead in the thread than I've checked, so either I'm misremembering or you're a weathervane, I guess



Vipera Magnifica said:


> I haven't really been able to keep up with the discussion but uhh, I inherited the role White Mage. Seems like your standard doctor role but the flavor also hints towards there being some other kind of doctor that heals using technology.
> 
> The fact I didn't get Deadly Doctor is what interests me more. I guess it either means Negrek was lying, or I got ILS' role because Jack was actually mafia?


FUCK'S SAKE


----------



## M&F

M&F said:


> FUCK'S SAKE


that was supposed to be a quote trope to Anti-Climax, pretend you don't see the other thing-


----------



## Negrek

Vipera Magnifica said:


> I haven't really been able to keep up with the discussion but uhh, I inherited the role White Mage. Seems like your standard doctor role but the flavor also hints towards there being some other kind of doctor that heals using technology.
> 
> The fact I didn't get Deadly Doctor is what interests me more. I guess it either means Negrek was lying, or I got ILS' role because Jack was actually mafia?


Ooh, that's spicy! But you're supposed to get the powers the night _after_ they died, right? So if your re-read of your role PM is correct, there's no way you could have gotten ILS' role.

Could you take another look at the wording and ask Butterfree if your power will proc a second time if it fails on the first night? From the way you described it, it sounded like something that could only happen N0, so there would again be no way for you to have gained ILS' power. Otherwise, yeah, I guess Jack wasn't actually Town.


----------



## kyeugh

M&F said:


> that you're pocketing him, but you did just volunteer an additional boquise FoS from farther ahead in the thread than I've checked, so either I'm misremembering or you're a weathervane, I guess


what do you mean by "pocketing" here?  i feel like what you're saying doesn't really make sense with my understanding of the word


----------



## Mawile

Vipera Magnifica said:


> The fact I didn't get Deadly Doctor is what interests me more. I guess it either means Negrek was lying, or I got ILS' role because Jack was actually mafia?


I mean, if we're going by what VM said (that you inherit the role the following night, right?), then if Jack was mafia/third party, then it would be theoretically correct to have gotten ILS's role last night, as that was the night following ILS's death, and ILS was the first town-aligned person to die.


----------



## mewtini

oh, yeah. the timeline we'd all thought of was an n0 kill -> n1 inherit, not a d1 kill -> n1 inherit, which is actually what probably happened?


----------



## M&F

kyeugh said:


> what do you mean by "pocketing" here?  i feel like what you're saying doesn't really make sense with my understanding of the word


picking up the meaning through osmosis sometimes doesn't work I see-

I meant coddling, defending, and being prone to assume that the given individual is town


----------



## kyeugh

last Night was the Night_ of_ ils's death—the Night following his death would be toNight, no?


----------



## kyeugh

oh wait yeah ils was a lynch and boq died last night. derp derp derp etc


----------



## Negrek

kyeugh said:


> as long as you're alive we will probably know when the cop dies


Yeah, but are you seriously going to bank on that? I mean, if you're signing up to never lynch me, I'm down, sure. But that's even assuming you get the chance and I don't die in the night.

It's *also* assuming that the cop will have a trope that will obviously point to them being cop, which I don't think is a sure thing. I expect there to be some tropes where the mafia role associated with them is blindingly obvious, like White Mage, and some where the association is one that only Butterfree would guess in the absence of other information. Like if someone dies and their role is "world-weary cop" or something, then yeah, they're probably the cop, but I wouldn't rule out the cop getting assigned something like, idk, "street smart" or something.


----------



## Vipera Magnifica

Negrek said:


> Ooh, that's spicy! But you're supposed to get the powers the night _after_ they died, right? So if your re-read of your role PM is correct, there's no way you could have gotten ILS' role.


no, it just says the first time a _non-mafia_ player dies, I will take on their role at the beginning of the following night phase


----------



## kyeugh

M&F said:


> picking up the meaning through osmosis sometimes doesn't work I see-
> 
> I meant coddling, defending, and being prone to assume that the given individual is town


this has never been what pocketing means ime; it's when someone appeals to a specific player such that the player views them favorably
at any rate keldeo is currently in my shrug pile.  i just disagreed with mawile's assessment that his posts look scummy, because they looked pretty much normal to me, and the read seemed really weird given like half the roster was yet to speak substantially at the time


----------



## Negrek

kyeugh said:


> oh wait yeah ils was a lynch and boq died last night. derp derp derp etc


Oh, yeah, I hadn't actually considered that. Does it specifically say that it's a player dying _at night_, or just first non-Mafia player?


----------



## Negrek

well okay then


----------



## Negrek

To be honest, I had completely discounted the possibility of Jack secretly being Mafia, but it seems I've come down to either Jack's secretly mafia or VM's lying, so.


----------



## Mawile

Vipera Magnifica said:


> no, it just says the first time a _non-mafia_ player dies, I will take on their role at the beginning of the following night phase


So then, going by this, if Jack was town or third party, then you should have inherited Deadly Doctor, correct? So he would have needed to be mafia that flipped as innocent on death, right?


----------



## mewtini

jack was godfather confirmed


----------



## kyeugh

Negrek said:


> Yeah, but are you seriously going to bank on that? I mean, if you're signing up to never lynch me, I'm down, sure. But that's even assuming you get the chance and I don't die in the night.
> 
> It's *also* assuming that the cop will have a trope that will obviously point to them being cop, which I don't think is a sure thing. I expect there to be some tropes where the mafia role associated with them is blindingly obvious, like White Mage, and some where the association is one that only Butterfree would guess in the absence of other information. Like if someone dies and their role is "world-weary cop" or something, then yeah, they're probably the cop, but I wouldn't rule out the cop getting assigned something like, idk, "street smart" or something.


i'm pretty much banking on that yeah.  i don't think you're in serious danger of being lynched and if _boq_ died before you i feel like you're probably safe for a bit
and if you do die or the role isn't obvious etc...  i mean maybe it'll end up being useless but i don't think the mafia will actually triangulate who the cop is from this, so the worst case is it ends up being useless.  best case we can extract useful information from it


----------



## mewtini

wait i managed to totally misread ignore me


----------



## Negrek

> So then, going by this, if Jack was town or third party, then you should have inherited Deadly Doctor, correct? So he would have needed to be mafia that flipped as innocent on death, right?


Or what Seshas said about the day text not being trustworthy extends to the flips, too, which I dislike the thought of.


----------



## mewtini

wait. no i didn't. lol.



kyeugh said:


> i mean maybe it'll end up being useless but i don't think the mafia will actually triangulate who the cop is from this, so the worst case is it ends up being useless. best case we can extract useful information from it


agree with this tbh


----------



## mewtini

Negrek said:


> Or what Seshas said about the day text not being trustworthy extends to the flips, too, which I dislike the thought of.


ope. i feel like this is too far? Hopefully? aaah


----------



## kyeugh

i've been kind of toying with that idea too and yeah.  
i kind of like the idea that jack was mafia because it makes the facial expression in his death flavor make sense and also means there's probably another doctor out there still (assuming he was mafia doc, magic doc is gone, leaving tech doc)
but i don't like it because, uh, the implications.  of that.  oof


----------



## kyeugh

that is not what i wanted :eek: to turn into


----------



## Negrek

mewtini said:


> ope. i feel like this is too far? Hopefully? aaah


I hope! But I know to expect the unexpected from this game.


----------



## Negrek

On the bright side, if speculation's right and Jack was mafia doc AND Boquise was some sort of mafia based on his role trope, then we're down two already?

But that seems unlikely, who is surgical-striking all these damn mafia.


----------



## kyeugh

i am glad i did this instead of studying for my chem exam
not even joking tbh
gn yall


----------



## mewtini

so i'm just making sure i'm actually on the same page. doesn't this confirm that jack was mafia or that flavor/flip was messed with? we know neg's claim is real now that she's been verified by VM, probably. so. this could mean jack was taken down? :D 

(uh. how though. lucky vig? maybe i'm just behind/not keeping up with you guys oops)


----------



## mewtini

mewtini said:


> lucky vig?


lol and then i remembered the d1 flavor text about his death. jk. smh. maybe i need to go to sleep too


----------



## Mawile

mewtini said:


> doesn't this confirm that jack was mafia or that flavor/flip was messed with?


So since VM only takes non-mafia roles and didn't get Jack's role, Jack had to have been mafia. We don't know if it's something in his role that made him flip as innocent (which could be likely), or if the flavor text/flip itself got modified by the mafia (also likely, if the mafia are able to "pull the strings" as Seshas said).


----------



## mewtini

cool! so that's a good one down for us. in that case i am now curious about the mode of death tbh, especially since it's similar maybe (read: not bloody) to boq's ... these are kind of unsettling


----------



## Negrek

mewtini said:


> so i'm just making sure i'm actually on the same page. doesn't this confirm that jack was mafia or that flavor/flip was messed with? we know neg's claim is real now that she's been verified by VM, probably. so. this could mean jack was taken down? :D
> 
> (uh. how though. lucky vig? maybe i'm just behind/not keeping up with you guys oops)


I don't think it's confirmed. The way I see it, there are many ways we could have arrived here (in no particular order):

1. VM's lying completely about his power and its results
2. Jack was actually mafia and therefore didn't trigger VM's power on the first night
2a. Jack was some mafia-aligned or otherwise not sufficiently Town role that flips innocent regardless
2b. The flip was somehow doctored
2c. Someone blocked/redirected/something during the night in such a way that Jack flipped innocent even though he wasn't, he was innocent "at the time of role reveal" but somehow became mafia afterwards and before VM's power was triggered. Basically depends on where VM's power comes in Butterfree's nightly order of operations.
3. VM's power was somehow blocked on the first night and therefore only procced the first time when ILS died
4. VM's power was somehow altered/redirected/otherwise messed with last night, causing weirdness to happen
5. _My_ power was somehow messed with N0

Okay, I lied, it is in order: I think one or two are the most likely. But I can't choose between them at the moment.


----------



## rari_teh

Ok longpost bc meatspace pulled me for a bit



Negrek said:


> I will respond to actual discussion later, but can we not do the cop cover thing? I get that it's supposed to give us reliable alignment reads if the cop dies before they can claim, but _we are not going to know when the cop dies_. I don't see it doing anything for us outside of helping narrow down who's an actual cop for the mafia.
> 
> Unless I'm missing something! But if I'm understanding the strategy correctly, it seems like something that makes sense in a game where roles are revealed on death but which is Bad for a setup like this.


You are right. I won’t hypo n1 anymore, nor any other further n (although I’ll stand by my n0 hypo for consistency’s sake). Besides, unless I’m missing something, nobody in their right mind would hypo somebody red unless a) actually a cop or b) heavily wanting to throw shade, so



Negrek said:


> To be honest, I had completely discounted the possibility of Jack secretly being Mafia, but it seems I've come down to either Jack's secretly mafia or VM's lying, so.


I’d say maybe Jack was (mafia-leaning?) 3p and his win condition would be something on the lines of infecting everybody with something, but VM said his role PM explicitly said “not mafia”, so yeah


Negrek said:


> On the bright side, if speculation's right and Jack was mafia doc AND Boquise was some sort of mafia based on his role trope, then we're down two already?
> 
> But that seems unlikely, who is surgical-striking all these damn mafia.


Maybe there is indeed an OP townie out there and this whole game is just Butterfree laughing at the expense of the mafia’s misery and despair trying to track the spying sniper :^)


mewtini said:


> so i'm just making sure i'm actually on the same page. doesn't this confirm that jack was mafia or that flavor/flip was messed with? we know neg's claim is real now that she's been verified by VM, probably. so. this could mean jack was taken down? :D
> 
> (uh. how though. lucky vig? maybe i'm just behind/not keeping up with you guys oops)


Or maybe VM was somehow roleblocked? Although yeah, I reckon that wouldn’t make much sense thinking back on it


----------



## mewtini

rari_teh said:


> Or maybe VM was somehow roleblocked?


i mentioned this in super early game when it came up (before VM knew that his role was night-acting, not day-after-kill acting) and negrek commented that it sounds like a passive/not roleblockable which i might be on board with


----------



## mewtini

rari_teh said:


> I’d say maybe Jack was (mafia-leaning?) 3p and his win condition would be something on the lines of infecting everybody with something,


imagine if we had a fucking plaguebearer in this game tbh oh my GOD


----------



## mewtini

rari_teh said:


> You are right. I won’t hypo n1 anymore, nor any other further n


ok so this could have just narrowed down copreads somehow? :x


----------



## rari_teh

mewtini said:


> imagine if we had a fucking plaguebearer in this game tbh oh my GOD


It was COVID-19 Mafia all along! (dun dun DUUUUN)


----------



## rari_teh

mewtini said:


> ok so this could have just narrowed down copreads somehow? :x


How so?


----------



## mewtini

rari_teh said:


> How so?


full disclosure that i do not know the intricate parts of mafia such as this, haha, but


Negrek said:


> can we not do the cop cover thing? I get that it's supposed to give us reliable alignment reads if the cop dies before they can claim, but _we are not going to know when the cop dies_. I don't see it doing anything for us outside of helping narrow down who's an actual cop for the mafia.


i agree w kyeugh that this is probably hard since mafia will have to triangulate from existing cop covers, but the way i read it is that you just totally anti-hypocopped, narrowing down possibilities


----------



## rari_teh

Also idk if I can ask this outside this thread bc it kinda relates to mafia but it’s also not _directly_ about mafia, so I’ll take the safe option of asking it here anyway

Why doesn’t Mawile appear online even though he just posted? Is it a result of posting on mobile/funny cookie bug or something?


----------



## mewtini

don't mean to scold you though. i just don't really know how stuff like this works


----------



## mewtini

rari_teh said:


> Also idk if I can ask this outside this thread bc it kinda relates to mafia but it’s also not _directly_ about mafia, so I’ll take the safe option of asking it here anyway
> 
> Why doesn’t Mawile appear online even though he just posted? Is it a result of posting on mobile/funny cookie bug or something?


some people set their activity visibility to be invisible! so you can't see when they're online


----------



## rari_teh

I can’t even see how that could be taken as a scolding tbh lol



mewtini said:


> full disclosure that i do not know the intricate parts of mafia such as this, haha, but
> 
> i agree w kyeugh that this is probably hard since mafia will have to triangulate from existing cop covers, but the way i read it is that you just totally anti-hypocopped, narrowing down possibilities


Nobody knows even whether an actual cop hypocopped at any given point or not, so yeah, I still don’t follow?


----------



## rari_teh

mewtini said:


> some people set their activity visibility to be invisible! so you can't see when they're online


I had no idea that was a thing, but it does makes sense lol
Thanks!


----------



## Mawile

rari_teh said:


> I had no idea that was a thing, but it does makes sense lol
> Thanks!


It's in your settings! There's a box for showing your online activity, or something like that, and it's checked by default.


----------



## mewtini

rari_teh said:


> Nobody knows even whether an actual cop hypocopped at any given point or not, so yeah, I still don’t follow?


my thought was just that it narrowed down the number of possible cops for mafia to choose from, honestly. i don't think it makes a big difference, i was p much just springboarding off of negrek's logic that the hypocop trend could be harmful if it lets mafia narrow down


----------



## mewtini

i agree with you. i was thinking aloud tbh


----------



## Vipera Magnifica

One more thing before I hop off, since it's likely the mafia will want to kill me off now I've claimed doctor, and I don't see the benefit of sitting on this info even if I find its authenticity rather dubious: I got a "strange message" from someone via Butterfree last night saying that "kyeugh is not mafia". Considering that warning earlier that the mafia are "secretly pulling the strings", I don't exactly have a lot of "faith" in anything i have to "put in scare quotes".


----------



## Mawile

Were you told who sent the message or was it kept anonymous?


----------



## Vipera Magnifica

anonymous


----------



## rari_teh

Vipera Magnifica said:


> One more thing before I hop off, since it's likely the mafia will want to kill me off now I've claimed doctor, and I don't see the benefit of sitting on this info even if I find its authenticity rather dubious: I got a "strange message" from someone via Butterfree last night saying that "kyeugh is not mafia". Considering that warning earlier that the mafia are "secretly pulling the strings", I don't exactly have a lot of "faith" in anything i have to "put in scare quotes".


Let’s just say troperville!VM lives quite the surreal life lol


----------



## kyeugh

kyeugh said:


> good news guys


----------



## mewtini

This Just Got Interesting.


----------



## mewtini

angry reacting. skylar go to sleep


----------



## mewtini

VM do you have any idea why it got routed to you? i'm guessing not but it can't hurt to ask


----------



## rari_teh

mewtini said:


> VM do you have any idea why it got routed to you? i'm guessing not but it can't hurt to ask


If I may take a Wild Guess™, maybe there’s a cop-like role where the flip is routed to a random player


----------



## Vipera Magnifica

oh yeah and thanks for the bank account info, mafia, I'm currently buying a 42 gallon barrel of snake oil. not really sure what this stuff does... i assume it's like... oil you rub on your snakes?


----------



## mewtini

rari_teh said:


> If I may take a Wild Guess™, maybe there’s a cop-like role where the flip is routed to a random player


hmmmm. can you elaborate on what your wild guess is? eifie's hypocop is such that she can't control who she targets


----------



## kyeugh

Vipera Magnifica said:


> oh yeah and thanks for the bank account info, mafia, I'm currently buying a 42 gallon barrel of snake oil. not really sure what this stuff does... i assume it's like... oil you rub on your snakes?


 do you have proof for this? it seems like a pretty substantive claim. is this real...?


----------



## mewtini

so i'm wondering how your WG™ is different than a cop like hers, esp when it's at night, with private messaging, etc


----------



## mewtini

basically im wtf lol


----------



## Mawile

Hmm, maybe where Eifie can't choose her target (and gets a random target) but gets the result sent to her, maybe Wild Guess cop can choose the target but the information gets sent to someone random?


----------



## Herbe

gonna be real some of this hypocop stuff feels like its going over my head
what a world


----------



## Negrek

A role that gets to whisper to other players at night is one I've seen used in a number of games here before, so while it's weird that EVERYTHING is happening to VM, I don't think it's super out of left field. Could be either innocent or mafia sending the message, though, so I don't see any reason to assume that it's a _true_ message.


----------



## rari_teh

mewtini said:


> hmmmm. can you elaborate on what your wild guess is? eifie's hypocop is such that she can't control who she targets


This is literally the entirety of my guess, lol
Something like
*Cop: *Imma investigate kyeugh
*Butterfree:* *rolls dice* Sending kyeugh’s alignment to Vipera


----------



## kyeugh

Mawile said:


> Hmm, maybe where Eifie can't choose her target (and gets a random target) but gets the result sent to her, maybe Wild Guess cop can choose the target but the information gets sent to someone random?


you’d think someone would’ve got it n0 then? unless it got routed to scum or otherwise someone who didn’t feel like sharing


----------



## mewtini

Mawile said:


> Hmm, maybe where Eifie can't choose her target (and gets a random target) but gets the result sent to her, maybe Wild Guess cop can choose the target but the information gets sent to someone random?


bruh. head hurt tbh


----------



## Negrek

Mawile said:


> Hmm, maybe where Eifie can't choose her target (and gets a random target) but gets the result sent to her, maybe Wild Guess cop can choose the target but the information gets sent to someone random?


I haven't actually seen that myself, but it would be a cool role idea!


----------



## mewtini

Herbe said:


> gonna be real some of this hypocop stuff feels like its going over my head
> what a world


you are not alone homie


----------



## Mawile

kyeugh said:


> you’d think someone would’ve got it n0 then? unless it got routed to scum or otherwise someone who didn’t feel like sharing


Or maybe someone got their own result and went "wow, this is worthless"?


----------



## Negrek

kyeugh said:


> you’d think someone would’ve got it n0 then? unless it got routed to scum or otherwise someone who didn’t feel like sharing


Good point. Anyone have this happen to them N0?

or the whisperer could have sent it to Odie_Pie or something. =/


----------



## mewtini

honestly find it kind of bizarre that a cop would investigate kyeugh right now tbqh



Mawile said:


> Or maybe someone got their own result and went "wow, this is worthless"?


LOL


----------



## mewtini

like unless it was randed onto her. but we don't know anything ... i guess we'll have to crossref this somehow. jesus


----------



## rari_teh

Mawile said:


> Hmm, maybe where Eifie can't choose her target (and gets a random target) but gets the result sent to her, maybe Wild Guess cop can choose the target but the information gets sent to someone random?


Exactly


Negrek said:


> A role that gets to whisper to other players at night is one I've seen used in a number of games here before, so while it's weird that EVERYTHING is happening to VM, I don't think it's super out of left field. Could be either innocent or mafia sending the message, though, so I don't see any reason to assume that it's a _true_ message.



The only way to verify it would be an Actual Cop™ investigating kyeugh next night, but then again they wouldn’t be able to reliably tell us whether it’s true or not


----------



## kyeugh

Negrek said:


> A role that gets to whisper to other players at night is one I've seen used in a number of games here before, so while it's weird that EVERYTHING is happening to VM, I don't think it's super out of left field. Could be either innocent or mafia sending the message, though, so I don't see any reason to assume that it's a _true_ message.


i can think of a good reason! 
a whisperer would be interesting. a whisper who is also a cop seems surprising though. maybe a whisper in contact with a cop? cop eifie masons with whisperer keldeo!?
i’m guessing no one else has been whispered to yet


----------



## mewtini

yeah. all i will say is that i trust eifie's cop claim, but she can't even control her targets (which i also find as an additional reason to believe, since she def wouldn't have chosen ultracool given her reads hah)

and idk what other cops are actually out there obviously. or if there's another alignment cop. sigh


----------



## kyeugh

rari_teh said:


> Exactly
> 
> 
> The only way to verify it would be an Actual Cop™ investigating kyeugh next night, but then again they wouldn’t be able to reliably tell us whether it’s true or not


 this requires the cop to reveal themselves in order to confirm my alignment, which doesn’t seem worth it imo


----------



## rari_teh

Mawile said:


> Or maybe someone got their own result and went "wow, this is worthless"?


Taking into account that Butterfree’s day job is programming, I believe that she would have removed the investigated’s name from the random-picking roster lol


----------



## mewtini

kyeugh said:


> cop eifie masons with whisperer keldeo!?


.


----------



## Mawile

mewtini said:


> like unless it was randed onto her. but we don't know anything ... i guess we'll have to crossref this somehow. jesus


There's also the chance that it was randed onto Jack, ILS, or Boq, who all died before potentially revealing it.


----------



## Negrek

kyeugh said:


> i can think of a good reason!
> a whisperer would be interesting. a whisper who is also a cop seems surprising though. maybe a whisper in contact with a cop? cop eifie masons with whisperer keldeo!?
> i’m guessing no one else has been whispered to yet


fess up kyeugh you've just been whispering your innocence to anyone who will listen at night



mewtini said:


> yeah. all i will say is that i trust eifie's cop claim, but she can't even control her targets (which i also find as an additional reason to believe, since she def wouldn't have chosen ultracool given her reads hah)
> 
> and idk what other cops are actually out there obviously. or if there's another alignment cop. sigh


I'm pretty sure Eifie hasn't actually claimed cop?


----------



## rari_teh

mewtini said:


> yeah. all i will say is that i trust eifie's cop claim, but she can't even control her targets (which i also find as an additional reason to believe, since she def wouldn't have chosen ultracool given her reads hah)
> 
> and idk what other cops are actually out there obviously. or if there's another alignment cop. sigh


She could have picked Ultracool because he’s in pretty much everyone’s Amorphous Blob, so nobody would suspect a green (who hypos a red, btw?!)


----------



## rari_teh

Mawile said:


> There's also the chance that it was randed onto Jack, ILS, or Boq, who all died before potentially revealing it.


I want to believe Boquise would’ve revealed it in life. He got pretty active in the last day of d1


----------



## mewtini

Negrek said:


> I'm pretty sure Eifie hasn't actually claimed cop?


i can't really answer this 100% right now tbh


----------



## mewtini

rari_teh said:


> I want to believe Boquise would’ve revealed it in life. He got pretty active in the last day of d1


this was my thought as well


----------



## rari_teh

Negrek said:


> I'm pretty sure Eifie hasn't actually claimed cop?


She didn’t. Since she gave her n0 hypo she’s staying in character as a maybe-cop, but that could be just Eifie memeing


----------



## rari_teh

Just like the masons-with-Keldeo and lovers-with-Boquise things


----------



## Negrek

rari_teh said:


> She didn’t. Since she gave her n0 hypo she’s staying in character as a maybe-cop, but that could be just Eifie memeing


Okay, that's what I thought.


----------



## mewtini

she also gave a n1 hypo. basically. i know that one of her hypos was correct, but she might've just coinflip guessed it


----------



## rari_teh

mewtini said:


> she also gave a n1 hypo. basically. i know that one of her hypos was correct, but she might've just coinflip guessed it


Wait a minute, how do you know one of her hypos was correct?


----------



## kyeugh

ok i’m really going to bed but something i just thought of:
i know i said there’s probably no vig, but with 2 town aligned doctors there HAS to be another killing faction unless the mafia is huge, right?
like, correct me if my numbers are wrong here, but if we assume the mafia is six people (which i think is the upper limit) and they only get one nightkill per night (which may not be true tbf but is standard), it would still take them until day 7 to whittle the non-mafia population down to the point of a scum victory (from 19 -> 5), and that’s assuming the doctor never saves successfully and only townies ever get lynched.
that’s seems pretty town-biased, so there has to be another killing role in play, right? lmk if that adds up to y’all


----------



## Herbe

im also "???????" here abt knowing a hypo was correct
mewtini bby whats up


----------



## rari_teh

I gotta sleep bc it’s like 3 AM and I got classes in the morning, but I definitely want to hear an answer to that
Goodnight y’all


----------



## kyeugh

kyeugh said:


> ok i’m really going to bed but something i just thought of:
> i know i said there’s probably no vig, but with 2 town aligned doctors there HAS to be another killing faction unless the mafia is huge, right?
> like, correct me if my numbers are wrong here, but if we assume the mafia is six people (which i think is the upper limit) and they only get one nightkill per night (which may not be true tbf but is standard), it would still take them until day 7 to whittle the non-mafia population down to the point of a scum victory (from 19 -> 5), and that’s assuming the doctor never saves successfully and only townies ever get lynched.
> that’s seems pretty town-biased, so there has to be another killing role in play, right? lmk if that adds up to y’all


actually i think maybe seven days is normal. i don’t really know. what do you guys think about this


----------



## Negrek

kyeugh said:


> actually i think maybe seven days is normal. i don’t really know. what do you guys think about this


I think if I were making roles for a game this large I would have included some ways for there to be multiple kills per night in order to move things along faster. But I'm not Butterfree.


----------



## Negrek

also go to bed

And I want to hear from mewtini


----------



## Mawile

You'd also have to assume no alien (or other roles that don't get killed after one time being targeted at night) were hit for the 7 days to make sense, I think.


----------



## Negrek

Negrek said:


> And I want to hear from mewtini


oh my god I wrote a gigantic post about other stuff and now I can't post it because I don't want to distract from this


----------



## mewtini

rari_teh said:


> Wait a minute, how do you know one of her hypos was correct?


oh jeez. sorry i vanished for a bit there. 

this is not satisfactory but ... it's role-related info that i'd rather not entirely give away just yet, sorry, i just wanted to clear my initial cop!eif claim because i realized i'd inadvertently repeated it a weird number of times without substantiating it :T


----------



## M&F

right, so I'm back with more boquise quotes and- jesus okay VM just comes here to drop bombshells huh

fwiw one thing I do think about that message is that, if the one who sent it has control over who receives it, targeting VM makes a lot of sense; a bit of a gamble from the possibility that he might've been mobbed in the night, but a quasi-confirmed inno makes a safe drop place if one is willing to take that particular risk. alas, this doesn't tell us much about the veracity of the line

also, mewtini, is there at least not any chance of something that might help us determine which of Eifie's hypos is correct? I have to admit I was skeptical of the whole random-target cop biz because that's, like, a role of nothing but swing, but if there's reason to believe it's not just relish on the cop cover, I guess it's within the bounds of tv tropes mafia, maybe

anyways, do I even bother spilling the boquise quotes rn


----------



## mewtini

M&F said:


> also, mewtini, is there at least not any chance of something that might help us determine which of Eifie's hypos is correct?


i kind of ... can't, i'm sorry :')


M&F said:


> I have to admit I was skeptical of the whole random-target cop biz


yeah i felt that this was implicitly doubted, which was why i suddenly felt compelled to at least say something honestly to validate the hypocop claim


----------



## Negrek

Okay so I started typing this a while back and the discussion has definitely moved on; I just want to kind of throw it out there so it's out there but also definitely not forget about all this cop stuff. But I do have to tap out for the night, so first:

I guess I might as well admit I'm not getting any work done on what I was supposed to be doing anyway, so I'll do this now... regarding this post, kyeugh hit it nail on the head, really. I'm =/ over the apparent difference in philosophy here, and I am fully prepared to expound at length on why I think lynching non-participatory over participatory is the correct play when all else is equal, but I don't know that that would do anything but distract from actually figuring out who's mafia and is likely irrelevant now anyway, because I feel like we're headed towards suspecting someone at least semi-active today. So I won't go there unless you really want me to go there, lol

I think that mostly covers it? Except:



> basically the tldr as of now is that i thought negrek was putting undue effort into defending ILS, and this was honestly why i stayed the course with ILS and didn't switch to otter during this part of EoD. however, negrek then issued a post that i now kind of view as an attempt to appease ... someone? me? idk:


I changed my vote in response to Boquise's post about ILS' death providing more information than RNP's. I had been thinking of things purely from a perspective of "which one of these people in a vacuum is it going to be the most useful to lynch," while Boquise's was talking about looking at how other people reacted to the prospect of their being lynched. I thought Boquise had a good point and was willing if reluctant to switch my vote on the grounds that it would be more useful for ILS to die than RNP.

Clearly I should have done more to defend ILS, but at the time I didn't see much point: my only argument against not lynching him was that I thought the evidence for him being mafia was weak, and I couldn't point to anyone who would make a better target. It wasn't like I had any evidence of my own that could exonerate him. And between him and Ottercopter, I thought he was the one more likely to be mafia (but my _most likely_ scenario was that _neither_ of them were, which is why I had wanted to vote for someone entirely different). I am no longer so hot on Ottercopter (more on that later), but that was why I changed my vote to ILS and stuck there even after people started bailing.

Right now what's most interesting to me, aside from this mess with VM that I don't know what to do with at the moment and need to think about more, is what happened at EoD yesterday with everyone shuffling around their votes, and also how/why Boquise was the one to go down last night. These are things I hope to look into more deeply in the future.

Oh, and also what's up with Ottercopter is of a great deal of interest to me. I was really feeling like she was innocent yesterday, but, uh, that has definitely changed. I am especially unimpressed with the whole "I'll claim but not until 10 minutes before the end of the day!" thing, which has been walked back, but we're still looking at more than two days' wait before claiming? Like, the excuse is that she doesn't want to derail the discussion with info about her role, but I think that it's going to be a lot more deraily to have this claim dropped late in the discussion, when people will have already started forming opinions on who we might want to vote for at the end of the day and who might have to completely revise them in light of the new information. I think we want to get everything out on the table as quickly as possible so we have the maximum amount of time to consider the evidence with as full a context as possible. To me it looks like Ottercopter's playing for time to come up with some kind of defense for her really weird claim and/or hoping that if she can deflect and put it off long enough that people might forget about it. I am also really weirded out by the fact that she made that "I win if lynched" claim _at all_, since she was on her way to lynching (as far as she knew? Apparently she miscounted?)... Like, if she actually won if lynched, all she was doing there was giving people a huge incentive to jump off the train. If you win by getting lynched, the correct thing to do if you find yourself staring down a lynch is... to not say anything. So if she doesn't actually win by getting lynched, to me it seems like the most likely explanation is that she was mafia making a desperate last-ditch attempt to deflect votes. She could also be innocent and have just blurted that out because she didn't want to die, even though it would be a really bad choice! But the way she's been behaving since doesn't seem terribly innocent to me.

ALSO, someone asked ages ago (sorry too lazy to dredge this up) if I had e-mail alerts for the PM's I deleted pertaining to the last TVTropes Mafia. This is a good angle, but unfortunately I've never had e-mail notifications from TCoD turned on.


----------



## Herbe

the mewtini/cop stuff is weird and i genuinely don't know what to think
negrek i actually quite like your longpost and i have better overall vibes for you now
its too early in the morning for this tho, i have a headache. I'll catch you guys later


----------



## mewtini

Negrek said:


> I changed my vote in response to Boquise's post about ILS' death providing more information than RNP's. I had been thinking of things purely from a perspective of "which one of these people in a vacuum is it going to be the most useful to lynch," while Boquise's was talking about looking at how other people reacted to the prospect of their being lynched. I thought Boquise had a good point and was willing if reluctant to switch my vote on the grounds that it would be more useful for ILS to die than RNP.
> 
> Clearly I should have done more to defend ILS, but at the time I didn't see much point: my only argument against not lynching him was that I thought the evidence for him being mafia was weak, and I couldn't point to anyone who would make a better target. It wasn't like I had any evidence of my own that could exonerate him. And between him and Ottercopter, I thought he was the one more likely to be mafia (but my _most likely_ scenario was that _neither_ of them were, which is why I had wanted to vote for someone entirely different). I am no longer so hot on Ottercopter (more on that later), but that was why I changed my vote to ILS and stuck there even after people started bailing.


this part of your post (i haven't finished reading, will get there in a bit) makes sense, thanks for explaining this to me!


----------



## Keldeo

Hi, I'm too tired to do anything but haha react to funny posts for a while, but I will be actually present by Thursday hopefully! Please ping me if you have anything you want me to look at or answer.


----------



## Keldeo

Eifie said:


> you think role madness = +hard?
> 
> I'm not sure I've seen a role madness game on tcodf that wasn't at least mildly townsided :p


Oh, and this game's flavor of role madness seems to be +wacky, which doesn't inherently impact the accuracy of d2 reads lists, but imo is +hard because there's more mechanical talk and there's the inevitable weird consequences of the wacky stuff.

*Panini* hi! \o/


----------



## mewtini

Negrek said:


> I am especially unimpressed with the whole "I'll claim but not until 10 minutes before the end of the day!" thing, which has been walked back, but we're still looking at more than two days' wait before claiming? Like, the excuse is that she doesn't want to derail the discussion with info about her role, but I think that it's going to be a lot more deraily to have this claim dropped late in the discussion,


VERY agreed and was actually what made me start wondering about her :(



Negrek said:


> I am also really weirded out by the fact that she made that "I win if lynched" claim _at all_, since she was on her way to lynching (as far as she knew? Apparently she miscounted?)...


actually she counted correctly i think, when i got scared about her pseudojester claim i freaked out and switched votes. i don't understand her claim either but this is what makes me wonder if she panicked so hard that she told the truth? but she also later said that she misread, i think


----------



## mewtini

mewtini said:


> when i got scared about her pseudojester claim i freaked out and switched votes


meant to also say that i think i ended up being the deciding vote w/out realizing it


----------



## Negrek

mewtini said:


> actually she counted correctly i think, when i got scared about her pseudojester claim i freaked out and switched votes. i don't understand her claim either but this is what makes me wonder if she panicked so hard that she told the truth? but she also later said that she misread, i think


Oh, you're right, I totally missed your last vote after she said that. Bold is hard to see when it's only three letters, lol

now I really am leaving


----------



## M&F

well, we have less going on, so, time to post quotes before some freak accident happens and they disappear from my listing ig

this was a read list that he posted:


Boquise said:


> read list i guess tbh
> 
> View attachment 377
> Boquise
> 
> 
> View attachment 379
> Eifie
> kyeugh
> kokorico
> Seshas
> IndigoEmmy
> rari_teh
> mewtini
> mawile
> 
> View attachment 383
> Negrek
> Keldeo
> Panini
> Herbe
> Stryke
> Mist1422
> 
> View attachment 381
> Flora
> RedneckPhoenix
> Mr. Ultracool
> Odie_Pie
> serimachi
> Vipera Magnifica
> 
> View attachment 382
> I liek Squirtles
> Ottercopter
> M&F


I find it strange how high up Keldeo is considereing that this list both antecedes and postcedes quite a few posts where he expressess suspcion of keldeo. hmmmmmmmm...
(altho I'm not pretending like the elephant in the room isn't there at the bottom)

other quotes on Keldeo:


Boquise said:


> This is a good chicken tbh


this was in approval of a post putting him on blast


Boquise said:


> I feel like you post a lot but I don't really get the sense of it. It looks good on a surface level. Your questions of me on the ILS/otter thing felt like you wanted to create a talking point by poking at some details. Even tho I had misread one post lmao, but that was what I felt, or feel. Idk


aimed at Keldeo also

all of that said, though, he didn't seem to mind bouncing off Keldeo for speculation on whether rari_teh was being supported by scum buddies or not (and that particular topic was such a mess I couldn't bring myself to focus on it, so, I guess there shall be no quotes). anyways, it's weeeeeeeird.

on myself:


Boquise said:


> so i have had a super difficult time following M&F's posts. They pop in. Make some largish post with links to tv tropes and barely engages with posts or with players in real time. I also don't really get the point of them, like how they are coming from someone who wants to figure out the game. They just exist in a vacuum to me.


this was the only time he's posted about me, although somehow he's felt confident enough in that shallow read to subsequently put me at the bottom of his read list. but eh, it is what it is; no sense in defending myself from a dead dude

on ottercopter:


Boquise said:


> View attachment 369





Boquise said:


> this reads as damage control to me tbh


I only selected these two quotes to point to another possibility that's been emerging for me: boquise was pressuring ottercopter well before the EoD disaster, and was pushing to lynch her until the very end when he pushed Panini instead to break the increasingly head-hurting dichotomy.

so yeah, that'd be a terrible unreveal, but as far as killing people that were on scent goes, it's possible that this was for ottercopter. wouldn't exactly be a fantastic move, being that she's very unlikely survive much longer anyway, but we can't always assume the mob is playing well, can we?

of course, though, I'd now have to go check if boquise really stood out for any reason out of everyone else in the din that were the votes flying between ILS and Ottercopter, so... I guess that's one more thing to analyze! maybe I'll do it after I catch me some zzzzzzz



Negrek said:


> Ffffuck yoooooouuuuu


and lastly, I just quoted this one to showboat


----------



## Panini

Hey guys. Gonna go ahead and address this first:



Eifie said:


> my post about Panini at EoD was kind of harshly worded, sorry @Panini :( I was desperate to get something out before the day ended. anyway the thing that worries me there is that Panini didn't really make a stance (she said if she was voting for one she would vote for ILS but without an actual vote there that doesn't really mean anything to me) and instead voted on a wagon that was at that point not happening, in a case where there were two competing wagons and I think neither were capital-m Mafia-aligned. it kind of made me nervous even right there when it happened and I was like "what if we have t/t wagons and she's a wolf staying away???" so now that I think neither wagon was Mafia I'm getting confirmation bias like whoa. her reason for voting Odie_pie there was if she doesn't come back in time and her vote gets in the way or something but I don't know if that really feels _like_ her. like a lot of people on the wagons were clearly actively online right then to move their votes around and also the just not using her vote doesn't feel that town!Panini-like :( there's also the fact that she hasn't done much in the way of solving, keeps promising more content but hasn't delivered yet, and I am probably totally biased but I am not thrilled with her question to me about voting Odie_pie because I literally gave my reasons right in the post where I voted her. if she saw my vote she was the reasons. so the asking me about it kind of feels like asking to do something/shade.


That's okay! I get that it was a tense moment so like don't worry I always operate with assumption that sussing people isn't personal unless you make it so. And like honestly I kind of get this I think under normal circumstances it'd be a weird vote to make for me and I did a poor job of verbalizing it so I just to explain/reiterate fully why I did what I did:

1) If I'm being honest I think I felt in my gut before I actually realised it that the two wagons might not be solid enough to go all the way to EOD without some CFD activity. The VM interaction goes pretty thin as far as actual evidence - I think it's a valuable tidbit that could have built up a broader case but it felt a bit like that's all it was hinging on and definitely uncertain enough that a good claim from either of them could immediately derail the wagons, especially because neither of them had reappeared for some time in thread iirc.
I'm prepared for this game to be somewhat role driven. I don't think it would really match the theme if no one had interesting and polarising claims to make.
2) Normally this lack of faith in the current wagons would mean the onus falls on me to make a push somewhere else but I knew _for sure_ I would not be able to return to the thread for some time and might not be able to post again before EOD at all (which is what ended up happening) My bottom reads didn't feel particularly inspiring beyond just rand: Stryke, RNP, Odie - I feel about the same for all of these in that I don't think any of these slots get solved with suitable pressure. Bare in mind I'm used to the idea of replacements and modkills in the case of inactive slots - having to figure out how I feel about killing/not killing Odie is something I haven't really had to contemplate since I last played on a smaller forum like 5 years ago.
And even if they're just min posting in a normal mash I'd advocate for dealing with it by ITAs - but since we don't have those we have to consider utalising town KP in order to execute the POE or we just end up with the most cryptic players going deep into the endgame.
3) Voting Odie, while not an informative lynch is always always better than abstain or no lynch with the _assumption_ that Odie is never coming back to this game. (Obviously there's a chance they come back and everything is swell and dandy but as time goes on and everyone else increases in readbility it's actively harmful to keep a ? slot around, no offence intended) At least then if Odie dies we have recieved information about the slot and if it's a mafia slot we gain even more information about who was willing and not willing to vote there and we gain utility in the form of not having that be a risk for the deeper we go into the game.

tldr: I kind of anticipated that you might want to move off wagon if either popped up with a claim and didn't want to sink my vote on Otter in case she happened to be an important role. Odie was and still is exactly rand but it felt okay to call for something +utility to town in a situation where I did not feel strongly that anyone else was scum.

So like, to bring it back to what you're saying you're not wrong to interpret it as I wanted to stay away from those wagons but it's because they didn't have my confidence not because I was worried at all about making me look bad. It's also true that others were around to push onto other places but I don't really feel like other thoughts I had about who should be up for lynch were significantly better. Stryke if anything would have been my other pick but the reason for that was because no one had talked about him and it was even more not-happening than Odie.

Also the reason I asked you to expand on your reasoning of bringing up Odie in the first place was not because I didn't understand what you were saying the first time - what I was trying to point out is that it's inconsistent with how I know you've previously behaved around inactive slots _and that time you were town. _I let it go when you said you had said it gazillion times that you wanted everybody to just be able to enjoy the game because I figure there's some extenuating factors that affect how invested you are in this one and the size and setup of the game is also different (i.e. there should _be _other PRs in the game so it's less of a risk if you accidentally dome one). But I wasn't shading you for the sake of nothing, it was a mindset read.


----------



## Panini

Keldeo said:


> *Panini* hi! \o/


I wish we had a wave react


----------



## Panini

Also I'm sure this has been said (and like honestly I haven't looked through yet) but boq is such a weird flip, like the dude was fine yesterday but really not that fine with the PRs on the table and selection of strong leader-esque town still in the game. There's enough range in there that this would have to be a either a massive doc dodge, some kind of secret info based kill, a 3p kill or redirected.

If on the other hand we have some way of knowing for sure that was the maf kill, not only is mind boggled but I'd be sus of people who actually familiar the quality of Boq's play - I don't think what he did yesterday is enough for someone who's only just met him to perceive him as a threat tbh (sorry boq?)


----------



## Butterfree

Gentle reminder to be mindful that you’re not playing on MU and people here don’t know all the abbreviations etc. that are used there - if your post is full of CFD, ITAs, KP and POE, half of the players here aren’t going to know what you’re talking about. (To be honest I don’t remember most of these myself.) Try to stay away from jargon, or else explain it where you use it.


----------



## Panini

Here’s my cobbled together reads for today before I get some slep. Honestly, I’m still not very satisfied with myself I think for sure there’s at least a couple key players in Pure stack/Paranoia TL that are being mis-sorted but they’re the kind of people I’d do by associatives than outright so I’m avoiding it temporarily. I need to endeavour to look closer at the glut of people near the bottom - I think there’s a least a few that just aren’t standing out in my mind.

I’m not going to talk about these as I go because I want it to be not impossible to read but I’ll try running through it at the bottom IN THE SPOILER!! I did not proof this so sorry if the sentences are hard to read at all, if I need to reiterate something please feel free to ask.

Town Claims Inc. 
Negrek
Vipera Magnifica 
Seshas
IndigoEmmy

Pure Stack
Kokorico
Herbe

Paranoia Town Leans 
Eifie
Kyeugh 
Keldeo 
Mewtini

??
Ottercopter

Gut neutral-not good
RedneckPhoenix 
Mr. Ultracool
M&F*
Mawile*
Rari_teh*
Flora
Mist1422 

Gut Not good-would lynch
Odie_Pie
Stryke
Serimachi

*Players who I feel truly neutral about and need to reread for a better grasp on



Spoiler: More words please



I’m not taking anyone in Town Claims Inc. at anything other than face value for the moment. Negrek and VM have no motivation really to make such binding choices as early as they did. Negrek’s new information today basically makes this airtight to me and it corroborates with what VM has to say. I don’t think the Jack thing matters all that much at all. I think it’s likely if Jack had some kind of special die first, do things from behind the scenes, it wouldn’t be reasonable to expect VM to take that same role. It could of course be for a different reason but I don’t there’s any in particular that make me care. 
(In retrospect maybe the better way to handle this would have been to not have ILS claim and then have Negrek claim after VM, since I think most are worried about the latter and not the former slot but oh well?)

IndigoEmmy’s things is also corroborated and specifically about ILS so I feel good on that front. Seshas’s was more vague but I feel positive enough about the rest of their play that I actively don’t mind - they’ve been solvy and felt genuine to me throughout.

Herbe and kokorico both occupy a kind of space where I don’t actively remember much of what they’re saying/pushing but I feel good about them in thread. Herbe esp. Has kind of an agendaless vibe to him whereas I think my koko feels are based more on take mindmelds.

Paranoia town leans are placed in confidence order. I think even though I don’t like Eifie’s takes on me she’s playing on the whole a very vibrant and easy going game which is firmly different to her wolfy range. I also think like. If yesterday really was v/v all Eifie had to do was sit still and not tip the boat and she went for me instead very close to the buzzer anyway? Kyeugh and Keldeo are both just tone reads and very liable to change as we proceed. I don’t have very complex thoughts there apart from that I think qva is playing as assertive as I would expect for her town game; Keldeo is not asking questions to the point of excess so I don’t think he’s a wolf right now either. 

I don’t really like the way mewtini handled the Otter/ILS scenario because I feel like the idea that Otter had any more of a significant involvement with the game compared to ILS isn’t a true representation of what made those cases cogent but idk. They’ve been otherwise very involved and this is the point at which I start to kind of think like am I just overutilizing that reasoning so that things are less hard for me to think about. 

Hrmnm about ottercopter. I think others are right in saying that saying anything so panic stricken in the first place is somewhat poor jester play for someone already half on the chopping block and about to die and also what could possibly be the reason not to self vote there? That doesn’t really mean that Otter is necessarily more likely to have a town at-lynch role than a mafia or 3p at-lynch role though. I think putting that aside though the easy thing for me to believe right now is yesterday was v/v and wolves were snoozing during EOD so?? Maybe fine? I just will shelve until we get more stuff about it really.

Now that we’re in my Neutral to low stack I’m not really going to get to into the weeds about it like:


RedneckPhoenix said:


> hey who wants to see a picture of my dog


I’m not reading RNP off of this, let’s be real.
Mr.Ultracool never really responded to this exchange around pg 20: 





Panini said:


> oh! Sorry, my bad then~ I'm not sure what you meant instead if you'd like to rephrase?


Which I was waiting for and then disappeared shortly after so we kind of missed out on his lategame thoughts.

Flora’s reappearance is nice to see (hi!) but obviously there’ll have to be some time before they get caught up so I’m obligated to just set their slot aside for a bit. (hope things get better soon)

Chem is a notable case because I feel like he should have substantially more than he’s offered - in fact even if he advertised only being able to make 3 reads he really only made the one on Seshas strong enough to stand out. 





Mist1422 said:


> oh boy 10 pages what did I miss


This exit post also no great, sort of begs a follow up where none came. I feel bad for consistently reading Chem like this because the last time I made some sort of disengagement read I was big wrong and it’s not like he feels terribly awkward or anything like that. So I want to give him a chance. But equally I expect (and love to see!) a bit more of him - he’s decently transparent to me in mashes usually so I don’t know what it is about the smaller environment that makes me a bit more obscure to me.

Which leaves me with Stryke, Odie and Serimachi. I don’t really trust Stryke based on comments I’ve made previously about the way his slot has been handled and the stuff he’s said is a bit thin:


Stryke said:


> Not too many thoughts really. I really want to believe otter because it honestly does seem like just a string of unfortunate/ill-timed posts, but like... I could also see it as pretty scummy too, like maybe she actually is an alien type role and now she's trying to backpedal on it in a chance to get activated. But at the same time she seems like she knew she messed up and accidentally made herself seem a lot more scummy than she might be, and she's been really willing to cooperate too. I can see both sides of the story, so I'm definitely interested in whenever she elaborates on her role, maybe it'll help clear things up


This for example kind of goes back and forth without really settling on a kind of conclusion. Which I guess is in line with Keldeo’s speculation that he was kind of like this in the resistance game too, but I don’t really know what to make of his approach. It’s hard for me to accept his desire to be a passive member of the game because I’m concerned his slot will coast - if it wasn’t for some lucky night actions in Eifie’s meme game I literally never would have got him. @Stryke if you’re actually town, I’d really like to encourage you to come take a stab at putting some stuff out there. Even if you’re not confident in your mafia abilities, saying a lot of things and being wrong about some of them isn’t nearly as detrimental as being overly cautious to say anything. Do you have thoughts about Boq’s death or the EOD? Who do you trust the most right now?

Serimachi I feel like a lot of town cred got put on early for the post about Eifie and then we didn’t hear back. I agree at first when I read it I was like “pure player incoming” but I was disappointed with the lack of follow through and the more I read it the more I had the thought of “this is what I used to do as wolf where you just pick a player and get real verbose” so I’m feeling less good about it now.


----------



## Panini

Ahhh, I'm so sorry, I didn't even think how cryptic that might come across. I'll try to stay away from the abbreviations in the future, here's the ones I used above:
CFD - I probably should get out of the habit of using this one anyway since there's been some talk of replacing it but basically it means a quick vote change near the end of the day away from whoever has been previously discussed. (i.e. when I refer to eifie switching to me last minute)
ITAs - In thread Attacks. In large games there's sometimes a mechanic where you can make a public shot at another play during the day with a chance to hit. Kinda exists to make sure games don't take forever.
KP - Killing Power. Any role that kills another player such as vigilantes or what I'm refering to above which is basically the lynch.
POE - Process of Elimination. People you need to sort through in order to find the mafia.
Just in case it's not common here too, I use v/v to refer to interactions or wagons between two town members, w/w to refer to two mafia members ect.


----------



## rari_teh

Mornin', fellow citizens. I still didn't read Panini's Wall of Text™, but I wanna address this:



M&F said:


> I find it strange how high up Keldeo is considereing that this list both antecedes and postcedes quite a few posts where he expressess suspcion of keldeo. hmmmmmmmm...


This is indeed _very weird_. I wish one of us noticed that back then and asked him about it while he was still alive.



M&F said:


> so yeah, that'd be a terrible unreveal, but as far as killing people that were on scent goes, it's possible that this was for ottercopter. wouldn't exactly be a fantastic move, being that she's very unlikely survive much longer anyway, but we can't always assume the mob is playing well, can we?


This had crossed my mind as well. We tend to assume that the mafia is playing masterfully at all times, but nothing stops Randomness™ from rolling a majority of noobs as mafia.


----------



## rari_teh

mewtini said:


> oh jeez. sorry i vanished for a bit there.
> 
> this is not satisfactory but ... it's role-related info that i'd rather not entirely give away just yet, sorry, i just wanted to clear my initial cop!eif claim because i realized i'd inadvertently repeated it a weird number of times without substantiating it :T


I really hope you/we didn't just out you as a cop?? Regardless of the source of your information, I would bet that this has raised some eyebrows in the mafia chat


----------



## kyeugh

why you gotta say stuff like that smh


----------



## Eifie

I need to work soon but a couple of things.

1) Guys. Please stop talking about cop roles. Please stop openly speculating about cop roles and who might have them. The issue with this is that just the act of doing it gives mafia information to narrow down who might be a cop and who isn't, not to mention the thoughts you're giving them for free by speculating. I also don't really see any issue with the few people who have been posting cop cover continuing to do so; it's pretty harmless.

2) See I _told_ you that Jack was a mafia doctor. Also I feel like setup spec on what you would expect from balance and stuff just... doesn't really apply to tcodf. tcodf games are usually _ridiculously_ townsided in terms of roles. Two town doctors in a small game (, like even just 13) is perfectly common and actually probably much more common than not. Also re: something kyeugh was saying, I would really hope there would be a town vig and in general other roles that cause more death because I am really not here for a 25-player game where there's only one death per night, but I dunno because I think the general sentiment on tcodf is the town vigs are useless and never shoot.

3) Uhh... I forgot what 3 is. I feel like there was something else that I wanted to reply to straight away... oh well.

4) Okay there were a couple things I wanted to briefly mention... My point about M&F was that yesterday I felt her posts were mostly just talking about mechanics speculation (which does nothing for me because that is objective stuff that is really easy for mafia to talk about actively to make it look like they're contributing while leaving their positions on actual people in the thread completely open) and posts that were kind of just "hey don't forget to be paranoid and think about the 1% chance of X" which generally tend to make me look unfavourably on people because I think everyone knows about the 1% chance of X and it was d1 and if we constantly hedge on those chances we get absolutely nowhere, which is a pretty nice thing for the mafia. I also think this was pretty different from Meowfia where she was town and was willing to push decently hard on both me and RNP d1. She raised some suspicions of Keldeo but it feels pretty different from that considering she never even voted him (iirc? at least she ended the day on a joke vote that I think she made in one of the posts where she was talking about Keldeo) even when other people were talking about finding him suspicious and voting him. I see she's doing more stuff today but now that she's been called out the well is kind of poisoned for me (to use a phrase Keldeo described it as once :p) so I'm just like. urrrgh. idk.

5) As usual Panini's responses are making me want to go sorry I'm sorry I'm trying to remove it. Kind of the same thing as above where I'm like "HMMM now that you've been called out you're suddenly spitting out a bunch of effort posts" and should maybe be more reasonable but >:( I was getting kind of stuck in my ways, I guess!! I wanna have somewhere to go!! Also selfishly she at least seems willing to admit (somewhat) that I'm obvtown this game which she was not willing to do in the invitational where I was also obvtown and she was mafia because mafia always think it's a good idea to shade me for some reason even with repeated evidence that it will just invoke my wrath and lead to their doom (I can't woweesprite on mobile)

6) Oh yeah I remember. omg guys please stop sheeping me just because. I have lots of games where I'm lolwrong about everything okay :(


----------



## rari_teh

About Panini's longpost: I especially agree with her take on @Stryke. I understand not being too confident about mafia abilities (and I should probably filter more what I say), but if nobody but the experienced talked, this thread would be quite empty... How does your tierlist look like?

About Negrek's longpost: it made me push her up one tier.


----------



## kyeugh

Eifie said:


> 2) See I _told_ you that Jack was a mafia doctor. Also I feel like setup spec on what you would expect from balance and stuff just... doesn't really apply to tcodf. tcodf games are usually _ridiculously_ townsided in terms of roles. Two town doctors in a small game (, like even just 13) is perfectly common and actually probably much more common than not. Also re: something kyeugh was saying, I would really hope there would be a town vig and in general other roles that cause more death because I am really not here for a 25-player game where there's only one death per night, but I dunno because I think the general sentiment on tcodf is the town vigs are useless and never shoot.


i don’t really know what to expect from tcod generally but like... idk, i feel like given how the last tvt game went, surely when constructing the setup there’d be some thought put into not dragging it out endlessly, right? also, re: the vig thing, is it common for tcodf vigs to just not fire? i can’t recall a game i’ve been in here with a vig but if that’s true then lol

+1 about the cop spec btw. jeez


----------



## Eifie

kyeugh said:


> i don’t really know what to expect from tcod generally but like... idk, i feel like given how the last tvt game went, surely when constructing the setup there’d be some thought put into not dragging it out endlessly, right? also, re: the vig thing, is it common for tcodf vigs to just not fire? i can’t recall a game i’ve been in here with a vig but if that’s true then lol
> 
> +1 about the cop spec btw. jeez


Usually there's not much happening in the way of reads, and most of the game is happening during the night phases, which is why there are a lot of roles in a way that is pretty townsided in a vacuum.

From what I remember, vigilantes basically never shot for kind of the same reasons that we used to never really do much in the way of lynching in the first few days. So I don't think people liked the role that much or thought it was useful. To add to that, sometimes vigilantes had a mechanic where they would die if they killed an innocent.

I am hoping for and expecting the deaths to ramp up soon, yeah. I think in the previous game the sources of death were:
- the mafia factional kill
- Kratos ("lost mafia") killing people by saying "fuck you" to them
- Claire ("lost mafia"?) killing people by naming their tropes, usually in a batch like 3 people every 3 nights or 2 people after 2 nights
- once there was a backstabbing. it was unclear if that was Claire or Adriane who did it

The only other manners of death I can remember right now are terrorist blowing up and lover suicide.

Note: I can't actually check this because thread search doesn't work on threads before Xenforo so I can't quickly go and look at the deaths.


----------



## serimachi

Hi! Didn't notice Day 2 had started--figured it'd be in another thread.

Um, how do you guys find so much to speculate about?   I mean literally dozens of pages worth of speculation! I still feel like there's very little evidence of _anything_ right now. We have some hints of people with powers who are probably _not_ Mafia, but that's as solid as I feel about anything (and even that could just be trickery). 

I mean, I'm aware that I'm really inexperienced and the fact that I feel like we have very little to go on is probably just a consequence of that. But I just find it all very tough to follow.


----------



## rari_teh

serimachi said:


> Hi! Didn't notice Day 2 had started--figured it'd be in another thread.
> 
> Um, how do you guys find so much to speculate about?   I mean literally dozens of pages worth of speculation! I still feel like there's very little evidence of _anything_ right now. We have some hints of people with powers who are probably _not_ Mafia, but that's as solid as I feel about anything (and even that could just be trickery).
> 
> I mean, I'm aware that I'm really inexperienced and the fact that I feel like we have very little to go on is probably just a consequence of that. But I just find it all very tough to follow.


Why hello there! Good to see you around! :)
I'm curious, how closely have you been following the thread?


----------



## Zori

I am here
I have ~20 pages to read
help


----------



## Zori

@:Mewtini's post on page 84
I'm a vanilla townie that just had a bit of info included with their rolecard


----------



## kyeugh

serimachi said:


> Hi! Didn't notice Day 2 had started--figured it'd be in another thread.
> 
> Um, how do you guys find so much to speculate about?   I mean literally dozens of pages worth of speculation! I still feel like there's very little evidence of _anything_ right now. We have some hints of people with powers who are probably _not_ Mafia, but that's as solid as I feel about anything (and even that could just be trickery).
> 
> I mean, I'm aware that I'm really inexperienced and the fact that I feel like we have very little to go on is probably just a consequence of that. But I just find it all very tough to follow.


evidence doesn’t really come from nowhere, so the best thing to do is talk about whatever you can, even if it’s something small, and go from the reactions/dialogue that produces. it’s v understandable if you can’t keep pace with this giant thread, but do you have any thoughts at all to offer mayhaps? who are you talking about when you mention non-mafia powers?


----------



## Stryke

Ok yeah I'm here. I'll do my best to throw together a tier list before I leave for work in a couple hours


----------



## mewtini

won’t be around a lot today i think but that might change if i decide to procrastinate way more than i should latwr

also @cop spec talk, yeah i agree. i’m sorry


----------



## Ottercopter

Quick, write down any thoughts you had about things before you read this post! Seriously, seriously not trying to derail here no matter how much it looks like it. But it's been quiet enough for a bit (I guess because everyone's at work) that I think this might be an okay time to say it...? 

This is definitely the final nail in my role's coffin, but it's been distracting me the entire time since last night phase began and I don't think that's a good thing when we have mafia members to find (and also real life stuff that I haven't been able to focus on properly, silly as that is).



M&F said:


> in the former case, I do believe ottercopter really should share with the class; if activating her useful power depends on town, we can arrange for it, and if it depends on mafia, that's most likely what they're already expecting, and chances of them taking the bait, least of all on a player who's likely to get vigged on her own, are infinitesimal.





Negrek said:


> Oh, and also what's up with Ottercopter is of a great deal of interest to me. [...] Like, the excuse is that she doesn't want to derail the discussion with info about her role, but I think that it's going to be a lot more deraily to have this claim dropped late in the discussion, when people will have already started forming opinions on who we might want to vote for at the end of the day and who might have to completely revise them in light of the new information. I think we want to get everything out on the table as quickly as possible so we have the maximum amount of time to consider the evidence with as full a context as possible. [...] I am also really weirded out by the fact that she made that "I win if lynched" claim _at all_, since she was on her way to lynching (as far as she knew? Apparently she miscounted?)... Like, if she actually won if lynched, all she was doing there was giving people a huge incentive to jump off the train. If you win by getting lynched, the correct thing to do if you find yourself staring down a lynch is... to not say anything.


Good point.

You both said something like "She would never announce, she knows what she's doing!" And thanks, I love you for having confidence in me, but I totally did. My role was Thanatos Gambit and I'm a townie trying to get killed by the Mafia. I misread it as trying to get killed by the town, couldn't really tell you why. The problem is that the focus was obviously "You win if you're killed" and I focused instead on "Town win > mafia win" and the "Gambit" part, assuming that maybe if I died, there's be a reaction. Like a Mafia remember who voted for me (or killed me once I reread the PM and realized my error) might get revealed in the process. Or some other hint related to my role's secret plan, ooooooo~

But then I talked to someone uninvolved in the game last evening who told me that I probably really AM just someone who wants to be killed by the Mafia for a full win aaaand that's about it lol. I just didn't read my role properly (Which VM may not have either at first, so at least it's not just me), misinterpreted stuff, and blew my win condition up in a moment of panic. I was hoping maybe being vague about it would still give me a chance, but yeah, I don't see an out, especially with MF now confirming my thoughts that I've said enough for the Mafia to stay away from me (I definitely had the paranoid "what if MF is mafia and this just confirms this for them?! But I think Eif's right about paranoid 1% speculation not really being worth the effort). 
If survival, a lynch, and a vig kill are equal losses for me, I might as well just stay alive and try to help as a vanilla townie. That's the entire truth, however improbable that sounds.

(Butterfree, I'm sorry, I swear I didn't throw my role away on purpose (until just now, but I really do think it was over for me anyway) aaaaaaaaa)


----------



## Stryke

Ok, here it is. Take it as you will

*Whatever:*
Stryke

*Good vibes:*
Eifie
Keldeo
Negrek
Seshas
IndigoEmmy
Herbe
Panini

*Neutral vibes, leaning towards good:*
Mr. Ultracool
mewtini
kyeugh
Mawile
serimachi
kokorico

*Neutral vibes, leaning towards bad:*
Ottercopter
M&F
rari_teh

*Somewhat bad vibes:*
Vipera Magnifica
Mist1422

*Would like to hear more from them before I make a decision:*
Odie_Pie
RNP
Flora


----------



## IndigoClaudia

yay good vibes


----------



## mewtini

tbh i love that this tier list is. significantly different from the existing ones. hmm


----------



## mewtini

short quoteless posts bc i’m on mobile for the first time during this thread but p much everyone’s long posts (especially neg and otter) have pushed them up for me hah. big fan of otter’s explanation, doesn’t sound made up to me tbqh


----------



## qenya

rari_teh said:


> E’s vibing well enough for me to be almost sure e’s a townie with a busy-ish meat life.


How dare you, I'll have you know I'm a vegetarian D:<

but yeah, this is pretty accurate tbh.

As for actual game thoughts.

Honestly at this point Ottercopter just sounds to me like an alien who had never heard of aliens before (or who didn't immediately recognise that her role was alien - I know my role PM didn't explicitly state the standard mafia name of my role) and misunderstood her goal. Dunno if this conflicts with anything she's already said.

(Or she's some sort of "reverse alien" who needs to be lynched and _then_ nightkilled?)



Eifie said:


> can I further the confirmation bias and speculate that maybe boq's somewhat vocal distrust of Panini and M&F could've been a factor in his death


Not sure I dare say this but... does this not also apply to Keldeo? who he also spoke quite strongly against? which you didn't bring up until M&F did (in #1764)?

I concede I may have confbias too, but it's not as if boquise was being secretive about scumreading Keldeo. He talked about it several times. And I know you noticed, because you argued with him about it (in #1085). So why omit him from your list of "people boq FoSed"? I've been townreading you almost all game (and still am overall, for all the many other reasons people have given), and from tierlists it seems like everyone else is too, so this is a little baffling to me.



kyeugh said:


> i don't really get why we're assuming vm got shielded? i keep seeing this tossed around and don't get it
> 
> like in order for that to be true we have to make all of these assumptions:
> [long list of assumptions]
> 
> this is all vs the more obvious conclusion of
> - there is no vig
> - the mafia targeted boq last night fsr


Because the "obvious conclusion" doesn't explain why mafia _didn't_ target VM last night, given that, if he was being truthful, he was almost certainly going to become a doctor.

I'm not totally convinced VM was shielded either, but afaict, the alternative is that he is lying about something. That's eminently possible (he only tropeclaimed White Mage after Negrek had already named it), but it seems inconsistent with his activity. If he were actually carrying out some arcane plan that required us to believe he had an unusual power role, I feel like he would be putting a lot more effort into convincing us.

I also don't think there being more than one way to nightkill people is a terribly outlandish assumption in a game with ~20 players. It's not implausible that either the mafia or the hypothetical vig targeted Ottercopter last night and she is now an activated alien.


----------



## qenya

kokorico said:


> Honestly at this point Ottercopter just sounds to me like an alien who had never heard of aliens before (or who didn't immediately recognise that her role was alien - I know my role PM didn't explicitly state the standard mafia name of my role) and misunderstood her goal.


...obviously I wrote this before seeing otter's roleclaim

godfuckingdammit


----------



## mewtini

kokorico said:


> That's eminently possible (he only tropeclaimed White Mage after Negrek had already named it),


i’m wondering why he would’ve put the effort into not claiming deadly doctor (and instead white mage) if he were lying tbh


----------



## mewtini

but you’re kind of right, i think i’ve been 100% writing VM off because i figured the thread was just moving entirely too quickly


----------



## qenya

mewtini said:


> i’m wondering why he would’ve put the effort into not claiming deadly doctor (and instead white mage) if he were lying tbh


that too yeah. another reason to think he's legit


----------



## mewtini

also as another note, i cannot for the life of me find it rn (prolly due to mobile) but will quote it later maybe when i can,

someone said something about reading RNP’s EoD posts innocently (they quoted his “hey who wants to see my dog”) but this kind of makes no sense to me when they were clearly meant to derail lol. whether that makes me town or scumread him is something that i have no clue about but it sure was Something


----------



## mewtini

kokorico said:


> Not sure I dare say this but... does this not also apply to Keldeo? who he also spoke quite strongly against? which you didn't bring up until M&F did (in #1764)?


.


----------



## mewtini

kokorico said:


> or who didn't immediately recognise that her role was alien - I know my role PM didn't explicitly state the standard mafia name of my role


just want to say that even if this gets overwritten bc you hadn’t yet seen her roleclaim, i really like this point


----------



## kyeugh

kokorico said:


> Because the "obvious conclusion" doesn't explain why mafia _didn't_ target VM last night, given that, if he was being truthful, he was almost certainly going to become a doctor.





M&F said:


> as for why VM wasn't targeted, I do think the far simplest explanation is that the mob expected him to be protected, even with one healer down. I'd say this lends additional credence to the theory that there were three doctors running around, and one was quite possibly scum


----------



## qenya

OK, after reading otter's post, yeah, this is giving off what I will henceforth be calling "indigoemmy vibes"

as in, comes across as totally guileless - not inclined to disbelieve her without a good reason.



mewtini said:


> .


.. / -.. --- -. - / ..- -. -.. . .-. ... - .- -. -..


----------



## Eifie

kokorico said:


> Not sure I dare say this but... does this not also apply to Keldeo? who he also spoke quite strongly against? which you didn't bring up until M&F did (in #1764)?
> 
> I concede I may have confbias too, but it's not as if boquise was being secretive about scumreading Keldeo. He talked about it several times. And I know you noticed, because you argued with him about it (in #1085). So why omit him from your list of "people boq FoSed"? I've been townreading you almost all game (and still am overall, for all the many other reasons people have given), and from tierlists it seems like everyone else is too, so this is a little baffling to me.


Because I wasn't making a list of "people Boq suspected", I was saying "haha hey look, the two people I'm somewhat suspecting right now were the lowest on boq's tier list" and making a half-joke about lolconfbias.

I also haven't mason-broken-up with Keldeo yet so I'm not particularly concerned about that personally regardless.


----------



## mewtini

Eifie said:


> I also haven't mason-broken-up with Keldeo yet


eifie can we mason-date?


----------



## Eifie

mewtini said:


> eifie can we mason-date?


I'm considering multiple suitors at the moment


----------



## Eifie

I'm trying to cut down on posts but keep forgetting to say one thing: the mafia apparently targeting JackPK n0 is also kind of weird considering that he hasn't played mafia here in quite a while.

The mafia kills sort of look like an extreme version of doctor dodging but I don't know if that would really be their primary consideration n1 after two doctors had already died? I was thinking that earlier when I forgot that VM would be backing one of them up but also I think sometimes (usually?) backups can't use their new action until the next night?

It's just. ?_?


----------



## Eifie

Eifie said:


> I'm trying to cut down on posts but keep forgetting to say one thing: the mafia apparently targeting JackPK n0 is also kind of weird considering that he hasn't played mafia here in quite a while.
> 
> The mafia kills sort of look like an extreme version of doctor dodging but I don't know if that would really be their primary consideration n1 after two doctors had already died? I was thinking that earlier when I forgot that VM would be backing one of them up but also I think sometimes (usually?) backups can't use their new action until the next night?
> 
> It's just. ?_?


oh also (sorry sorry trying to remove it I'm going away now) I wondered if the satisfied expression on boq's face could mean he was a bodyguard who "did his job" by taking a kill for someone else

idk how that fits in with the trope and the no violence death (n0 was also no violence) and also I don't even remember the death flavour right now


----------



## qenya

kyeugh said:


> [quotes]


Oh, right, so you think the mafia _expected_ VM to be protected (presumably by himself)? Aaargh. Yes, ok, I admit I didn't think of that.

Is there any reason why VM shouldn't just say who he healed N1, to try to narrow down the possibilities? Would that give extra info to the mafia somehow? It's not like his cover can be any _more_ broken.



Eifie said:


> I was saying "haha hey look, the two people I'm somewhat suspecting right now were the lowest on boq's tier list" and making a half-joke about lolconfbias.


Wait, so what was the reason you suspected M&F and Panini in the first place then? (Or even, roughly when did you say it so I can track down the post myself?) I think I must have missed that.


----------



## Eifie

Sorry one more

I also want to emphasize that whatever I may or may not know for sure about Keldeo's alignment should not influence your (general you) thoughts about him until I actually hard claim it because we can still learn a lot about people by reading their discussions and suspicions on someone even if they're later confirmed town

I've also given some hypothetical thoughts on why if we're not masons I'm not that concerned rn and I can dig them up/summarize if anyone wants

Just don't want anyone to feel shut down by me and Keldeo's longed-for masonry! Please continue, ty


----------



## Eifie

kokorico said:


> Oh, right, so you think the mafia _expected_ VM to be protected (presumably by himself)? Aaargh. Yes, ok, I admit I didn't think of that.
> 
> Is there any reason why VM shouldn't just say who he healed N1, to try to narrow down the possibilities? Would that give extra info to the mafia somehow? It's not like his cover can be any _more_ broken.
> 
> 
> 
> Wait, so what was the reason you suspected M&F and Panini in the first place then? (Or even, roughly when did you say it so I can track down the post myself?) I think I must have missed that.


I made a long post about them as like one of my first posts of the day. Sorry I can't get it right now, am on phone and need to get back to work


----------



## qenya

Eifie said:


> I made a long post about them as like one of my first posts of the day. Sorry I can't get it right now, am on phone and need to get back to work


found it!

don't have time to comment rn (probably later) but hopefully the link is at least helpful to someone


----------



## Herbe

kokorico said:


> Because the "obvious conclusion" doesn't explain why mafia _didn't_ target VM last night, given that, if he was being truthful, he was almost certainly going to become a doctor.
> 
> I'm not totally convinced VM was shielded either, but afaict, the alternative is that he is lying about something. That's eminently possible (he only tropeclaimed White Mage after Negrek had already named it), but it seems inconsistent with his activity. If he were actually carrying out some arcane plan that required us to believe he had an unusual power role, I feel like he would be putting a lot more effort into convincing us.


Heyo I know this got resolved but I still wanted to throw in my opinion (just caught up for the day. I'm really wary of FoSing VM right now because he seems more plausible a doc than not (I think that's been a couple people's consensus yeah? in this discussion) and I will literally go stupid and go crazy if we mislynch a second doc. So there's my thoughts. Obviously discussion is cool but I think it's safest to steer towards someone else for an actual target today.


----------



## Herbe

Oh no. I forgot a closing parenthesis after day. I can no longer live with myself


----------



## mewtini

Herbe said:


> and I will literally go stupid and go crazy if we mislynch a second doc


lmfao yes same. i’m team VM for now at least

though i will say i’m really liking koko‘s recent posts and herbe coming out of his shell


----------



## mewtini

have to reread and actually think beyond “sounds good tbh” eventually but i figure i’ll be mostly gone today so want to voice my vibechecks while i’m here, even if they’re superficial


----------



## Herbe

mewtini said:


> though i will say i’m really liking koko‘s recent posts and herbe coming out of his shell


(insert joke about being good at coming out of shells bc im trans)


----------



## mewtini

Eifie said:


> the mafia apparently targeting JackPK n0 is also kind of weird considering that he hasn't played mafia here in quite a while.


i was wondering about this


Eifie said:


> oh also (sorry sorry trying to remove it I'm going away now) I wondered if the satisfied expression on boq's face could mean he was a bodyguard who "did his job" by taking a kill for someone else


interesting tbh


----------



## mewtini

especially when boq was such a ?!?!? mafia kill


----------



## M&F

now that's more like it, gang! I sign on at 17 and there are only two pages of additional post to contend with!-



Eifie said:


> 4) Okay there were a couple things I wanted to briefly mention... My point about M&F was that yesterday I felt her posts were mostly just talking about mechanics speculation (which does nothing for me because that is objective stuff that is really easy for mafia to talk about actively to make it look like they're contributing while leaving their positions on actual people in the thread completely open) and posts that were kind of just "hey don't forget to be paranoid and think about the 1% chance of X" which generally tend to make me look unfavourably on people because I think everyone knows about the 1% chance of X and it was d1 and if we constantly hedge on those chances we get absolutely nowhere, which is a pretty nice thing for the mafia. I also think this was pretty different from Meowfia where she was town and was willing to push decently hard on both me and RNP d1. She raised some suspicions of Keldeo but it feels pretty different from that considering she never even voted him (iirc? at least she ended the day on a joke vote that I think she made in one of the posts where she was talking about Keldeo) even when other people were talking about finding him suspicious and voting him. I see she's doing more stuff today but now that she's been called out the well is kind of poisoned for me (to use a phrase Keldeo described it as once :p) so I'm just like. urrrgh. idk.


yeah, I'd say you're overestimating people if you feel like considering the alternative take is some obvious shit that everyone knows about. like, even without being critical of everyone's skills, it's _hard_ to stay on track of who's likely to be town, why that is, and how much leeway it entails. like, here's an example: most people in this game feel that you're probably town -- as I do, as a matter of fact -- but they're also sheeping you far, far harder than what merits a read based on just "ech she's around and sounds like she's trying to help". there's a crucial difference between feeling like someone's town and having strong reasons to assume so; keeping those two apart isn't always as simple as you're making it out to be

and yeah, I was out and early and hardcore on the pushing at Meowfia -- and I remember you tunnelling on me for _that_ back then, even -- but that was because that game gave me a lot to grasp on right off the bat. meanwhile, D1 here (until EoD when I couldn't keep up) felt like it was largely some inane shit leading nonwhere at the speed of light. like, I dunno if I've been clear enough about that at the time, but a big reason why I didn't engage with some of the threads in D1 is that I felt like much of it was nothing on top of nothing. and well, what can I say, chasing nothing on top of nothing is how we now have a lynched doctor

I don't like dedicating that much of a given post to defending myself but I guess it's not better if I start not responding to speculation about me



Ottercopter said:


> You both said something like "She would never announce, she knows what she's doing!" And thanks, I love you for having confidence in me, but I totally did. My role was Thanatos Gambit and I'm a townie trying to get killed by the Mafia. I misread it as trying to get killed by the town, couldn't really tell you why. The problem is that the focus was obviously "You win if you're killed" and I focused instead on "Town win > mafia win" and the "Gambit" part, assuming that maybe if I died, there's be a reaction. Like a Mafia remember who voted for me (or killed me once I reread the PM and realized my error) might get revealed in the process. Or some other hint related to my role's secret plan, ooooooo~
> 
> But then I talked to someone uninvolved in the game last evening who told me that I probably really AM just someone who wants to be killed by the Mafia for a full win aaaand that's about it lol. I just didn't read my role properly (Which VM may not have either at first, so at least it's not just me), misinterpreted stuff, and blew my win condition up in a moment of panic. I was hoping maybe being vague about it would still give me a chance, but yeah, I don't see an out, especially with MF now confirming my thoughts that I've said enough for the Mafia to stay away from me (I definitely had the paranoid "what if MF is mafia and this just confirms this for them?! But I think Eif's right about paranoid 1% speculation not really being worth the effort).
> If survival, a lynch, and a vig kill are equal losses for me, I might as well just stay alive and try to help as a vanilla townie. That's the entire truth, however improbable that sounds.


och, kingmaker scenarios

yeah, that all tracks and also validates my speculation that your PM was rough to read in a hurry; call this 1% speculation if you will, though, I still consider it entirely possible that, as scum, you figured a sincere-sounding surrender would sound more genuine than an attempt to remain useful. regardless, though, I'd still rather the vig take care of this one -- if for no other reason than mercy -- and continue on the chase for new information



kokorico said:


> Oh, right, so you think the mafia _expected_ VM to be protected (presumably by himself)? Aaargh. Yes, ok, I admit I didn't think of that.
> 
> Is there any reason why VM shouldn't just say who he healed N1, to try to narrow down the possibilities? Would that give extra info to the mafia somehow? It's not like his cover can be any _more_ broken.


self-targeting healers are rare in the TCoD meta; the presumption is that he'd be healed by our presumably missing tech doctor. if that one is alive and kicking, I guess the good news is that there's some potential for WIFOM play there; if the mafia only has one kill to their name per night, they most likely can't take the risk of shooting VM as long as the threat of him being healed exists -- and conversely, the tech doctor might just have the freedom to heal someone else, further shriking the mob's chances of getting any solid kills done

as for VM saying who he's healed, there's no reason why not, but there's also no reason why. I feel like it'd be like, slightly worse than better, because it'd give the mafia some minor insight as to what VM's particular heal priorities are


----------



## Novae

Good morning (in some timezone at least)

I'm not that engaged rn and admittedly have read none of D2

Might do some analysis of the nightkill


----------



## Novae

Well Boq ended the day voting *Panini* tbh so I think that's a solid lead


----------



## mewtini

Mist1422 said:


> Well Boq ended the day voting *Panini* tbh so I think that's a solid lead


im not so sure on this now that panini has talked

granted i haven't fully read what panini said 100% but when i skimmed i was a bit less convinced of the anti-panini EoD case after reading her post in 1887


----------



## Novae

mewtini said:


> im not so sure on this now that panini has talked
> 
> granted i haven't fully read what panini said 100% but when i skimmed i was a bit less convinced of the anti-panini EoD case after reading her post in 1887


can you please link that tbh

I haven't read today and do not have the mental capacity rn to calculate what page that's on


----------



## mewtini

Mist1422 said:


> can you please link that tbh
> 
> I haven't read today and do not have the mental capacity rn to calculate what page that's on


here! eifie's longpost about her is also quoted in there so you can see what panini was responding to


----------



## Novae

much appreciated tbh! I'll go over it now


----------



## Novae

read and acknowledged

on a normal day I'd probably find somewhere else to move but today I'm feeling lazy and wanna go easy mode so


----------



## mewtini

hehe yeah. just wanted to make sure you saw that before votesitting (i recommend the same to anyone who comes in late and tries to vote otter tbh)


----------



## rari_teh

mewtini said:


> also @cop spec talk, yeah i agree. i’m sorry


I’m sorry as well. I shoulda kept my mouth shut.


kokorico said:


> Not sure I dare say this but... does this not also apply to Keldeo? who he also spoke quite strongly against? which you didn't bring up until M&F did (in #1764)?
> 
> 
> I concede I may have confbias too, but it's not as if boquise was being secretive about scumreading Keldeo. He talked about it several times. And I know you noticed, because you argued with him about it (in #1085). So why omit him from your list of "people boq FoSed"? I've been townreading you almost all game (and still am overall, for all the many other reasons people have given), and from tierlists it seems like everyone else is too, so this is a little baffling to me.


Because he wasn’t the only one to FoS Keldeo? Just right out of the bat, I can remember both you and I also expressed suspicions of Keldeo at some point in d1, and I’m pretty sure there was at least one more person who did so. Now, as far as I can remember, boq was the only to cast suspicion on M&F and Panini.

This doesn’t necessarily mean anything about Keldeo, M&F and Panini’s alignments, though.



kokorico said:


> Because the "obvious conclusion" doesn't explain why mafia didn't target VM last night, given that, if he was being truthful, he was almost certainly going to become a doctor.


Ok, I might be being naïve here, but… What if the mafia was also curious about VM?
I mean, what would they have to lose by leaving a known doctor alive for one night longer in a game with 20+ people? Just kill some townie who’s not seen as a high-profile target and has been helpful (e.g. Boquise) and you’re pretty much guaranteed that the kill will land




kokorico said:


> I'm not totally convinced VM was shielded either, but afaict, the alternative is that he is lying about something. That's eminently possible (he only tropeclaimed White Mage after Negrek had already named it)


I know that you stated your lack of suspicion on VM on the next sentence, but I can’t not address this: if Negrek named it after VM, she’d be the one who could be suspected. This is an unavoidable egg or chicken situation (pun not intended), and I think it’s kind of a moot point to cast suspicion on any of them based on that at this point.



mewtini said:


> someone said something about reading RNP’s EoD posts innocently (they quoted his “hey who wants to see my dog”) but this kind of makes no sense to me when they were clearly meant to derail lol. whether that makes me town or scumread him is something that i have no clue about but it sure was Something


My two cents: he’s either really The Fool, who could be meme!townie or 3p (maybe some sort of gimmicky alien? idk), or he reached a point where things were going fast and he (understandably) couldn’t be arsed to read 80+ pages of jibberjabber, so might as well throw everything to the air, roleclaim as jester and have some lulz with the chaos of EoD.



Eifie said:


> oh also (sorry sorry trying to remove it I'm going away now) I wondered if the satisfied expression on boq's face could mean he was a bodyguard who "did his job" by taking a kill for someone else
> 
> 
> idk how that fits in with the trope and the no violence death (n0 was also no violence) and also I don't even remember the death flavour right now


That… is quite a good theory, actually. Although I’d be hard-pressed to find a way to fit A God Am I onto the role of a bodyguard…

As per the nonviolence thing, I believe the mafia must have psychic or magic powers. It was suspicious when it was only Jack, now it’s a pattern.



M&F said:


> even without being critical of everyone's skills, it's hard to stay on track of who's likely to be town, why that is, and how much leeway it entails.


BIG MOOD


----------



## rari_teh

I was supposed to link “kept my mouth shut” to this but I forgot lol


----------



## Mawile

Eifie said:


> I am hoping for and expecting the deaths to ramp up soon, yeah. I think in the previous game the sources of death were:
> - the mafia factional kill
> - Kratos ("lost mafia") killing people by saying "fuck you" to them
> - Claire ("lost mafia"?) killing people by naming their tropes, usually in a batch like 3 people every 3 nights or 2 people after 2 nights
> - once there was a backstabbing. it was unclear if that was Claire or Adriane who did it
> 
> The only other manners of death I can remember right now are terrorist blowing up and lover suicide.


We had a few types of death, looking at the previous thread:
- Gunshot wound
- Bleeding from the ears
- A splatter of gore
- Terrorist blowing up
- Backstabbing
- Mysterious heart attacks
- Lover suicide



Eifie said:


> The mafia kills sort of look like an extreme version of doctor dodging but I don't know if that would really be their primary consideration n1 after two doctors had already died?


I feel like, if we run under the assumption that Jack wasn't the science doctor to ILS's White Mage and that we still have a science doctor active, then doctor dodging could make sense for n1. Assuming that VM got White Mage at the start of last night (he mentioned somewhere that he gets the power "as the next night phase begins") and that he may have been able to heal someone, we would have two doctors running around: VM and the unknown science doctor. It wouldn't have made a lot of sense for them to try to kill VM, since he would have been too obvious of a target due to inheriting either Deadly Doctor or White Mage last night, and none of us know who the science doctor is. I feel like if they wanted to guarantee a kill last night, they would have kind of needed to doctor dodge.


----------



## mewtini

rari_teh said:


> I know that you stated your lack of suspicion on VM on the next sentence, but I can’t not address this: if Negrek named it after VM, she’d be the one who could be suspected. This is an unavoidable egg or chicken situation (pun not intended), and I think it’s kind of a moot point to cast suspicion on any of them based on that at this point.


!!!!!!!!



rari_teh said:


> I believe the mafia must have psychic or magic powers. It was suspicious when it was only Jack, now it’s a pattern.


tbh yeah. idk what this looks like but i'm p sure the flavor matters somehow (maybe we need to remember this for ... Info tbh)



rari_teh said:


> My two cents: he’s either really The Fool, who could be meme!townie or 3p (maybe some sort of gimmicky alien? idk), or he reached a point where things were going fast and he (understandably) couldn’t be arsed to read 80+ pages of jibberjabber, so might as well throw everything to the air, roleclaim as jester and have some lulz with the chaos of EoD.


the fool/jester is a role but i'd rather not read too much into trope names. (that being said i can jive with a tentative 3p/sus placement for him rn.) tbh he was just kind of. odd/mean? but i couldn't tell if it was joke or not haha, i can't help but be a little suspicious - idk who in the town alignment would fuck with townies trying to figure out who to vote for



rari_teh said:


> Just kill some townie who’s not seen as a high-profile target and has been helpful (e.g. Boquise) and you’re pretty much guaranteed that the kill will land


i like this spec but i also am a little attached to the bodyguard theory rn (this is self-contradictory but granted idk if BG works with his trope). also i think MF's occam-razoresque idea about the mafia just thinking VM was going to get shielded makes the most sense by far as of now



rari_teh said:


> *Because he wasn’t the only one to FoS Keldeo? Just right out of the bat, I can remember both you and I also expressed suspicions of Keldeo at some point in d1, and I’m pretty sure there was at least one more person who did so.* Now, as far as I can remember, boq was the only to cast suspicion on M&F and Panini.


a +1 for the bold. 
also just ftr eifie also did wonder about mf/panini iirc (not reading back through thread at the moment, sorry)


----------



## mewtini

mewtini said:


> the fool/jester is a role but i'd rather not read too much into trope names


lmao that being said i wondered during his posting frenzy if he _was_ trying to get lynched, but that's still such a. bad way to go about it. also i just feel like the fool -> jester logic would be too obvious for the game honestly?  tbh


----------



## mewtini

mewtini said:


> tbh


i hate autoemojis so much


----------



## Mawile

mewtini said:


> lmao that being said i wondered during his posting frenzy if he _was_ trying to get lynched, but that's still such a. bad way to go about it. also i just feel like the fool -> jester logic would be too obvious for the game honestly?  tbh





RedneckPhoenix said:


> trust me, you won't find my role through my flavor. not yet at least


There's this quote, but it could also be a deliberate attempt to mislead us.


----------



## rari_teh

mewtini said:


> lmao that being said i wondered during his posting frenzy if he _was_ trying to get lynched, but that's still such a. bad way to go about it. also i just feel like the fool -> jester logic would be too obvious for the game honestly?  tbh


I see that more like just having fun at our expense while we were too desperate to think anything really
I mean, if you look at his _picture of my dog_ comment with a detached/disinterested outlook, isn’t it Hilarious in Hindsight?


mewtini said:


> i hate autoemojis so much


Autoemojis are the bane of my existence and up to this very moment I was in a blissful ignorance thinking that this forum didn’t have those. Now I’m scared of typing emoticons


----------



## Butterfree

Emoticons are not automatically converted to emoji, but if you type convertible words between colons, like :shrug:, that will get converted to .

If you just want to say you shrugged, might I suggest the tried and true asterisk?


----------



## mewtini

yeah i'll have to revert to asterisks. at some point i started using colons because i was coming from discord lingo


----------



## mewtini

rari_teh said:


> I see that more like just having fun at our expense while we were too desperate to think anything really
> I mean, if you look at his _picture of my dog_ comment with a detached/disinterested outlook, isn’t it Hilarious in Hindsight?


it was. it was just also. kind of irritating. idk. unless he's town throwing the game/not planning on playing anymore ... i'm probably thinking too hard about something that doesn't matter yet, it just bothered me and i'm salty


----------



## mewtini

Mawile said:


> There's this quote, but it could also be a deliberate attempt to mislead us.


good find. i think this read more as him trying to mess with us (maybe just for fun idk) than an actual play or attempt to mislead? but i really have no coherent thoughts other than "uh"


----------



## rari_teh

Butterfree said:


> Emoticons are not automatically converted to emoji, but if you type convertible words between colons, like :shrug:, that will get converted to .
> 
> If you just want to say you shrugged, might I suggest the tried and true asterisk?


Thank Arceus for the webmaster.
I myself am more of a fan of the good old kaomoji ¯\_(ツ)_/¯


mewtini said:


> it was. it was just also. kind of irritating. idk. unless he's town throwing the game/not planning on playing anymore ... i'm probably thinking too hard about something that doesn't matter yet, it just bothered me and i'm salty


That’s exactly why I think it was just lulz. Being obnoxious just for the sake of it, laughing both at one’s own actions and at the angry reactions of the flabbergasted public. Mission accomplished for RNP, I guess.


----------



## M&F

Mist1422 said:


> Well Boq ended the day voting *Panini* tbh so I think that's a solid lead


folks have already pointed to panini's post and all but there's another issue I feel is at hand: boq wasn't pushing that hard for Panini anyway. like, the vote was just to get off the ILS or ottercopter train; earlier in the day, he expresses being suspicious of Panini but not wanting to push/vote.



rari_teh said:


> Now, as far as I can remember, boq was the only to cast suspicion on M&F and Panini.


is that a fact?

anyway, RNP feels very much like a dead end; vig fodder for after Ottercopter, really. microanalysis of blatant mockery isn't very likely to yield us much of anything new

I was also thinking -- if we _were_ to start pushing/lynching inactives, it may or may not be ideal to do so while Negrek is still around, so we can at least get one thing out of them as they depart. (even with that in play, though, lynching inactives is a last resort; let it not distract)


----------



## Eifie

I looked at the stuff I previously skimmed over and like... I honestly just have no idea what I want to do today. I'm already bored of my two pushes.

Maybe it's time to actually revert to memes!


----------



## rari_teh

Eifie said:


> I looked at the stuff I previously skimmed over and like... I honestly just have no idea what I want to do today. I'm already bored of my two pushes.
> 
> Maybe it's time to actually revert to memes!


That would be great to bring spirits up!

btw may I bring attention to the fact that the post numbers are already looking like years?


----------



## Mawile

Ah, is it time for memes? Here's an image.


----------



## rari_teh

Cat memes are the best!


----------



## Herbe

so is discussion just... stalled????


----------



## Mawile

Yes.


----------



## Mawile

We live in fear of reaching page 100, so there are no more posts.


----------



## mewtini

Herbe said:


> so is discussion just... stalled????


my boy, be the change you want to see in the world. Unstall It.

aight 2 posts left until page 100. dear lord


----------



## Mawile

mewtini said:


> aight 2 posts left until page 100. dear lord


one more post one more post


----------



## rari_teh

Mawile said:


> one more post one more post


wait guys, isn’t it actually 11 more posts? (10 with this one)


----------



## mewtini

rari_teh said:


> wait guys, isn’t it actually 11 more posts? (10 with this one)


IM A FOOL! god damn. you're correct smh.


----------



## Mawile

I'll have to vote to lynch you for such a disappointing realization :(


----------



## Herbe

Alright. I'm looking at the man in the mirror, I'm asking him to make a change....

So what are our viable options for today? As far as I see it, Panini kinda cleared herself with a longpost that made people trust her. I know she's probably good enough to like, do that even as scum, but I read it and got good vibes so there's that. I know people are cautious about M&F but I don't see any real push to lynch her, and I do like her contributions more lately, so blame me for getting suckered by anyone who makes long, well thought out posts. What else is there? We're wanting a vig to take Ottercopter I think? That would probably be a wasted lynch anyway. RNP is meh as a wagon. I think someone still has a vote on panini, which I do not support at this point (although I was kinda buying it back before the longpost. Sorry. I'm sorry. I'm trying to remove it) And does anyone want to go back to taking Odie out just to clear that slot? Is that really better than nothing (abstaining), strat wise? I also have Not Great feels on serimachi... if anyone wants to remind me why y'all townread them, hit me with it. Wasn't it the post about Eif? I think it might be a bit far to give someone a Whole Townie Pass based on that. 

I'm kinda driving myself WIFOM crazy thinking about if VM is gonna be the next target, and if he can heal himself (which we have to assume he can, for the sake of not giving the mafia too much info), and if he's gonna heal himself with the expectation of being the next target. But then you go back and forth in circular reasoning trying to predict the mafia's next move.

Going off of the actual kills (which I believe are just standard mafia kills tbh. occams razor and such) then I think the mafia might be trying to be unpredictable? Cause the boq kill certainly stirred up "huh?"s like crazy. On the other hand, a VM kill would be predictable, and people wouldn't really be talking themselves mad over it. So maybe they're trying to confuse us on purpose.

So my ideal train, based on bad vibes, is on serimachi. (However, I'm not gonna put my actual vote in bold until I get some actual evidence to support the vibe check.) If not serimachi, I think I'd be cool with a RNP or Odie wagon. M&F is also obviously an option, and I wouldn't like, try to stop an M&F wagon, even though her more recent posts have been giving me more good feelings. If there are any other viable options, let's hear them too. Feel free to change my mind on this, guys. (Idk if all my thoughts have already been laid out before and if they have im sorry ://// but these are my thoughts as of now!)


----------



## mewtini

honestly thank god conversation stalled lol i needed a breather. Just Spending Time with my Friends <3


----------



## mewtini

ok nvm

my boy herbe!!! hes growing!!!!! gotta read now


----------



## Herbe

(We can have friend meme time as well, don't have to be one or the other! Also yay :))) I'm photosynthesizing and stuff!! a little growman)


----------



## rari_teh

Mawile said:


> I'll have to vote to lynch you for such a disappointing realization :(



You wouldn’t!!!


----------



## rari_teh

I don’t even think I mentioned it, but last night I dreamt I was here playing mafia with you all and we were having a grand old time :) It had been a while since I’d last had a wholesome dream…

About Herbe’s longpost, though, idk mate, after better thinking I don’t know if M&F is solid enough? I mean, her last posts made me feel like she might be town after all and we’re all ruffled by Eif’s suspicion :(


----------



## mewtini

ok herbe and i aren't lovers i promise i just think his posts are so cute HAHA anyway:



Herbe said:


> Alright. I'm looking at the man in the mirror, I'm asking him to make a change....


yes king. 2020 is the year of change, and of ... covid's global spread ... but change



Herbe said:


> As far as I see it, Panini kinda cleared herself with a longpost that made people trust her.


idrk how others feel about it all the way but i do feel a bit better about it, at least for now. her comments about her reasons for camping between the two wagons seem easily explained but i never went back all the way to read beyond skimming (i keep saying i'll do that and then i don't, imagine having a real life in meatspace smh)



Herbe said:


> I know people are cautious about M&F but I don't see any real push to lynch her, and I do like her contributions more lately, so blame me for getting suckered by anyone who makes long, well thought out posts.


same and same tbh



Herbe said:


> We're wanting a vig to take Ottercopter I think?


herbe how do you feel about her roleclaim? i sort of liked it


Herbe said:


> RNP is meh as a wagon.


Sorry. Im sorry. Im trying to remove it. (i agree now that theres actually ?real stuff? to discuss for sure)


Herbe said:


> I think someone still has a vote on panini, which I do not support at this point


yeah that's mist iirc


Herbe said:


> And does anyone want to go back to taking Odie out just to clear that slot? Is that really better than nothing (abstaining), strat wise?


i think it could lessen a maf count if odie happened to roll maf but it would also maybe be unideal. it's hard to tell, because even if


Herbe said:


> if anyone wants to remind me why y'all townread them, hit me with it. Wasn't it the post about Eif? I think it might be a bit far to give someone a Whole Townie Pass based on that.


this is p much why. i agree with you. seri has just been inactive to the point of unreadability imo beyond that first post


Herbe said:


> Cause the boq kill certainly stirred up "huh?"s like crazy.


i agreed with you about the unpredictability possibility except for him _smiling_ so now idk
they ARE mafia they have no incentive to protect odie


----------



## mewtini

mewtini said:


> i think it could lessen a maf count if odie happened to roll maf but it would also maybe be unideal. it's hard to tell, because even if





mewtini said:


> they ARE mafia they have no incentive to protect odie


my quotes got in the way and cut my sentences in half, these are supposed to be together


----------



## Herbe

mewtini said:


> herbe how do you feel about her roleclaim? i sort of liked it


My heart says "yeah it's cool!! lil friend!!!" but I don't want to be too gullible. who knows if there's even a vig anyway. regardless I think it would be silly to lynch her even if there is a vig.


----------



## Herbe

rari_teh said:


> About Herbe’s longpost, though, idk mate, after better thinking I don’t know if M&F is solid enough? I mean, her last posts made me feel like she might be town after all and we’re all ruffled by Eif’s suspicion :(


i mean yeah eif did tell us to stop sheeping her lmao
fwiw, m&f is my least favorite out of what I saw as options


----------



## mewtini

the last few hours have been so weird because i'm trying to keep up with thread so i keep checking back but then there aren't any posts. and then i try to do irl work but getting worried that the thread exploded and i'll have to do catchup work. ad infinitum

tl;dr herbe i like your takes and appreciate your commitment to simplicity/shying away from crazy spec lol. it seems very pragmatic!town to me



Herbe said:


> if he's gonna heal himself with the expectation of being the next target.


i think mf said this above, but self-healing docs are really uncommon, at least as far as i've seen


Herbe said:


> If not serimachi, I think I'd be cool with a RNP or Odie wagon. M&F is also obviously an option, and I wouldn't like, try to stop an M&F wagon,


not a disagreement, just a q: why are you more feelsbad about seri as opposed to RNP/odie? is it the semi-inactive => lurker, totally-inactive => not playing thing i was getting myself twisted about during d1? is it that RNP reads not sus to you post-EoD?


----------



## mewtini

oh we. are on page 100. 

_oh boy!_



Herbe said:


> My heart says "yeah it's cool!! lil friend!!!" but I don't want to be too gullible. who knows if there's even a vig anyway. regardless I think it would be silly to lynch her even if there is a vig.


p much same :( but idk. i'll have to get back to this later if it's still relevant, i kind of think her claim makes sense but at the same time i don't have any true scumreads at all and now it's just a pool of people i don't feel _bad_ about, just unsure about


----------



## rari_teh

holy shit we hit 100



Herbe said:


> i mean yeah eif did tell us to stop sheeping her lmao
> fwiw, m&f is my least favorite out of what I saw as options


I also don’t know what to think of serimachi, really. His silence is more disheartening than damning for me… At least he _said something_, what about Flora who just ???


----------



## mewtini

rari_teh said:


> holy shit we hit 100
> 
> I also don’t know what to think of serimachi, really. His silence is more disheartening than damning for me… At least he _said something_, what about Flora who just ???


flora did give reasons she was inactive, but because of that similar level of inactivity i see her in the same tier as everyone else
also tbh i don't really count seri's posts as really Saying Something when he was gone for so long in between idk. they're all about the same to me atm

also does anyone have strykethoughts


----------



## mewtini

mewtini said:


> flora did give reasons she was inactive,


this sounded so heartless given their (i misgendered in the post above again, vv sorry) circumstances but


----------



## rari_teh

mewtini said:


> tl;dr herbe i like your takes and appreciate your commitment to simplicity/shying away from crazy spec lol. it seems very pragmatic!town to me


I also gotta say, your (Herbe) lack of reads on d1 had indeed made me wonder if you were mafia, but now I see you’re probably just a shy town who’s gaining confidence. I appreciate :)


----------



## Herbe

mewtini said:


> not a disagreement, just a q: why are you more feelsbad about seri as opposed to RNP/odie? is it the semi-inactive => lurker, totally-inactive => not playing thing i was getting myself twisted about during d1? is it that RNP reads not sus to you post-EoD?


RNP just seems like, benign to me. Like weird, yes, but maybe that's just how he operates. here's a serimachi post (1 out of... 4 total) that gave me weird feels particularly


serimachi said:


> Um, how do you guys find so much to speculate about?  I mean literally dozens of pages worth of speculation! I still feel like there's very little evidence of _anything_ right now. We have some hints of people with powers who are probably _not_ Mafia, but that's as solid as I feel about anything (and even that could just be trickery).
> 
> I mean, I'm aware that I'm really inexperienced and the fact that I feel like we have very little to go on is probably just a consequence of that. But I just find it all very tough to follow.


It just feels so vague and excusey?? also inexperienced people have at least been talking this game??????? it just immediately made me think "is this a wolf tryna avoid getting inactivechecked" cause its like LAMIST, I guess



rari_teh said:


> I also don’t know what to think of serimachi, really. His silence is more disheartening than damning for me… At least he _said something_, what about Flora who just ???


i forgot flora was playing no cap. but her cats about to pass away :(( they have good reason... flora can stay neutral on my list for now. it feels more like real life inactivity that scum!inactivity


----------



## Stryke

mewtini said:


> also does anyone have strykethoughts


I think he seems like a pretty cool guy :P


----------



## Herbe

rari_teh said:


> also gotta say, your (Herbe) lack of reads on d1 had indeed made me wonder if you were mafia, but now I see you’re probably just a shy town who’s gaining confidence. I appreciate :)


:3 maybe I will get promoted from Amorphous Blob to Cool Amorphous Blob....
still hardclaim lovers w you tho /s


----------



## mewtini

yeah quite honestly i think i townread herbe earlier because i thought he sounded so sweet and because he seemed to fall into agreement with me a lot. lmfao. it was a tenuous vibecheck of mine, but now that he's beginning to post more i think i'm solidly pro-herbe

if herbe is mafia i'll have to quit the game though so Don't Disappoint Me


----------



## Herbe

i don't have strykethoughts lmao. no thoughts head empty. would love to hear if anyone else does


----------



## mewtini

Herbe said:


> i forgot flora was playing no cap. but her cats about to pass away :(( they have good reason... flora can stay neutral on my list for now. it feels more like real life inactivity that scum!inactivity


hypocritical post given i just also fucked up but flora uses they/them :') i just keep. messing up. also, yeah, i agree for now but wonder if it's Possible ... it's a dead end rn though


----------



## rari_teh

mewtini said:


> flora did give reasons she was inactive, but because of that similar level of inactivity i see her in the same tier as everyone else
> also tbh i don't really count seri's posts as really Saying Something when he was gone for so long in between idk. they're all about the same to me atm
> 
> also does anyone have strykethoughts


I mean, seri’s first post was Saying Something at that time, but iirc none of Flora’s posts ever did

Regarding Stryke… He’s very often online, but speaks very rarely and very very rarely (only when prodded iirc) he shares his thoughts. I mean, I do understand that some people prefer to lurk and that isn’t necessarily indicative of alignment, but he doesn’t even react to posts? Idk man, gives me bad vibes.


----------



## Herbe

mewtini said:


> if herbe is mafia i'll have to quit the game though so Don't Disappoint Me


 perish the thought! I would never dissappoint you, queen


----------



## Herbe

mewtini said:


> hypocritical post given i just also fucked up but flora uses they/them :')


ugh i literally used her then them in the same sentence. Brain. You are also not cis. Get it together.


----------



## Herbe

rari_teh said:


> Regarding Stryke… He’s very often online, but speaks very rarely and very very rarely (only when prodded iirc) he shares his thoughts. I mean, I do understand that some people prefer to lurk and that isn’t necessarily indicative of alignment, but he doesn’t even react to posts? Idk man, gives me bad vibes.


I can understand that, yeah. goes in my I'd Be Cool With This Wagon pile.

it would also be cool if more than 3 people were having this conversation but whatevs O_O


----------



## mewtini

Herbe said:


> It just feels so vague and excusey?? also inexperienced people have at least been talking this game??????? it just immediately made me think "is this a wolf tryna avoid getting inactivechecked" cause its like LAMIST, I guess


thanks! yeah i don't have great seri vibes and i'm glad someone else agrees; i'm just being cautious of accidentally becoming another inactive-wagon champion because i'm still sort of beating myself up over ils. buddy i'm sorry. :(



rari_teh said:


> I mean, seri’s first post was Saying Something at that time, but iirc none of Flora’s posts ever did


i think flora's posts were just them popping in very early game iirc and then they came back when i tagged them? def haven't ever said anything but that is actually exactly why i inactive-IRL read them; in my brain at least, mafia would say something that seemed to be of value but was actually just ez consensus or available upon skimming, which is also why i'm with herbe about seri and some other people.

that being said

there is likely some maf among the active players as well, as much as i hate to say it


----------



## mewtini

rari_teh said:


> Regarding Stryke… He’s very often online, but speaks very rarely and very very rarely (only when prodded iirc) he shares his thoughts. I mean, I do understand that some people prefer to lurk and that isn’t necessarily indicative of alignment, but he doesn’t even react to posts? Idk man, gives me bad vibes.


yeah, stryke is in the pile that i had otter in earlier. we should probably ping him lmfao. 

total inactivity (other than flora, who seems to have real shit maybe going on) is sus to me because we have the react functionality, and stryke seems to have proven himself to be keeping up? idk! i don't want to shade him either i'm just also :/

mental note to ask stryke about his tierlist, which differed a lot from everyone else's so far


----------



## Herbe

mewtini said:


> that being said
> 
> there is likely some maf among the active players as well, as much as i hate to say it


well, yeah. naturally. :(((( 



Spoiler



y'all what if butterfree is scum



I'll take the hit and go with the *serimachi* vote, to hopefully pressure some info out. Not gonna make mewtini do another inactive wagon. @serimachi hello! whatcha thinkin bout the game? what are you up to? any thoughts are valid, spill!


----------



## mewtini

Spoiler



lmao butterfree is scum and SHES the mafia pulling the strings by modding :0000


----------



## mewtini

page 101. over 2k posts. damn

also serimachi, when you get here, i'd be interested in a (however vague you want) tierlist - seems to be useful for getting a sense of general vibe and how people are reading players. idk


----------



## rari_teh

serimachi said:
			
		

> [many words that Herbe quoted and I’m too lazy to tag here]


Under the risk of getting some shifty looks, I think I kinda understand what seri was trying to say?? Like, we spent some 15? 20? pages discussing the possibility of _Jack’s corpse being undead_, then we spent another good amount of pages speculating about Seshas’s obscure words – which was pretty much ended by _one single post by Seshas_ when she came back from IRL® and claimed Mysterious Informant, then there was the VM outtake/Noodle Incident that needn’t to be explained. Yeah, if serimachi’s been logging in only seldomly, I can understand why he’d say that.


mewtini said:


> there is likely some maf among the active players as well, as much as i hate to say it


Statistically, there definitely is. I have my suspicions, but I shouldn’t say anything because a) it’s just a gut feeling, b) we’ve been playing along well and c) I’d have to find some real good evidence to point fingers.


----------



## Herbe

@ rari's point.... Yeah, fair I guess. Maybe I jumped too early, haha.

Still gonna keep the vote for pressures sake, but we can still investigate other avenues. No shifty looks, dw


----------



## mewtini

rari_teh said:


> Yeah, if serimachi’s been logging in only seldomly, I can understand why he’d say that.


this is lowkey a big if. i wish i'd been checking when they were logging in (stalker claim rip), like i was with otter earlier, but alas

also not to beat a dead horse but seri's post has infinitely more "pretending to be naive" value than any of the controversy with rari from earlier lol



rari_teh said:


> Statistically, there definitely is.


:(



rari_teh said:


> I have my suspicions, but I shouldn’t say anything because a) it’s just a gut feeling, b) we’ve been playing along well and c) I’d have to find some real good evidence to point fingers.


i'm interested even if it's just a gut feel, but i understand if you want to keep it under wraps for now


----------



## Herbe

rari_teh said:


> I have my suspicions, but I shouldn’t say anything because a) it’s just a gut feeling, b) we’ve been playing along well and c) I’d have to find some real good evidence to point fingers.


not to be dramatic but as soon as you're ready I really want to hear lmao. discussion is good!!! rooting out the maf will likely be uncomfortable esp with more active players but we gotta do it!!!


----------



## mewtini

no true shifty looks here either, though :/


----------



## Herbe

mewtini said:


> also not to beat a dead horse but seri's post has infinitely more "pretending to be naive" value than any of the controversy with rari from earlier lol


you put my vibes into words omg


----------



## mewtini

Herbe said:


> you put my vibes into words omg


nvm guys. herbe and i are lovers now <3


----------



## Herbe

lovers polycule


----------



## mewtini

uh just for posterity i don't actually claim that serimachi is feigning newness lol. just that their post didn't feel as authentic to me as others' have, and felt like it had some lurking potential; i hope we get something better to go off of than analyzing post count soon


----------



## rari_teh

mewtini said:


> this is lowkey a big if. i wish i'd been checking when they were logging in (stalker claim rip), like i was with otter earlier, but alas


I’ll shamefully step forward and declare myself guilty of sometimes taking a peek at the frontpage to see who’s online. That, by the way, may or may not feed into my gut feel I mentioned…
It’s worth noting that as per what I learned earlier today, the absence of a person’s name on the online list doesn’t mean that they aren’t online, so there’s that.



mewtini said:


> also not to beat a dead horse but seri's post has infinitely more "pretending to be naive" value than any of the controversy with rari from earlier lol


I hadn’t thought of that?? Hm. I’ll read seri’s post history again.



mewtini said:


> i'm interested even if it's just a gut feel, but i understand if you want to keep it under wraps for now





Herbe said:


> not to be dramatic but as soon as you're ready I really want to hear lmao. discussion is good!!! rooting out the maf will likely be uncomfortable esp with more active players but we gotta do it!!!


Sorry, I’ll stay hush for the moment D:
I’m afraid of taking a misstep and then be accused of Wrongful Shade™, or worse, convincing a majority of their guilt and cause yet another wrongful death. I’ll be dredging up my sus’s post history, though, maybe I can grasp onto something…


----------



## rari_teh

mewtini said:


> nvm guys. herbe and i are lovers now <3


Don’t you _dare_ stealing him from me! >:(


----------



## Herbe

rari_teh said:


> Don’t you _dare_ stealing him from me! >:(


shh bby is ok


----------



## mewtini

rari_teh said:


> I hadn’t thought of that?? Hm. I’ll read seri’s post history again.


aaah no, this isn't a real claim ;( what herbe quoted just felt very LAMIST to me



rari_teh said:


> the absence of a person’s name on the online list doesn’t mean that they aren’t online, so there’s that.


yeah but if you're committed like me you'll remember who's set to invisible and who isn't ;)



rari_teh said:


> Sorry, I’ll stay hush for the moment D:


no don't be! i understand. i wasn't sure if it was another instance of being afraid/nervous like with some of the early/ongoing (?) keldeo worries, i'm just very curious and am hoping you can talk about this soon in a way that doesn't make you feel too uncomfy


----------



## rari_teh

mewtini said:


> what herbe quoted just felt very LAMIST to me


Ok I only now noticed that LAMIST is an acronym, and not _lame_ + _-ist_ lol
I do agree they push very hard the “sorry lol am just a n00b” agenda – literally three out of his four posts mention it in some way. Hm 



mewtini said:


> early/ongoing (?) keldeo worries


I’ll say this much: my suspicion isn’t on Keldeo. (Not that I trust him 100% though)


----------



## mewtini

rari_teh said:


> Ok I only now noticed that LAMIST is an acronym, and not _lame_ + _-ist_ lol


oh yes sorry. Look At Me, I'm So Town for anyone reading this hah

and oh yeah, i more meant a scenario that was similar to that, not that it was necessarily kel himself


----------



## Herbe

nooo my lovers are angry reacting meee
i am a Fool
i wonder if there's a couples counselor role


----------



## kyeugh

Herbe said:


> which we have to assume he can, for the sake of not giving the mafia too much info


 no we don’t tbh

will read the rest later


----------



## rari_teh

serimachi said:


> Also, I didn't count on how it would genuinely make a part of me feel gross to vote on people to kill!  I'll *abstain* based on no good grounds to suspect anyone, unless someone explains to me why that's a bad idea.


Eh, gotta agree that this excerpt could be the very definition of LAMIST… Though looking at his (not so many) posts I kinda see both reads as equally plausible?

I’d say I wouldn’t be comfortable voting for him as of now tbqh


----------



## mewtini

hi skylar :>



kyeugh said:


> no we don’t tbh


if we're thinking about the same thing (unlikely selfheal?), i also replied to this bit earlier


----------



## mewtini

rari_teh said:


> Eh, gotta agree that this excerpt could be the very definition of LAMIST… Though looking at his (not so many) posts I kinda see both reads as equally plausible?
> 
> I’d say I wouldn’t be comfortable voting for him as of now tbqh


i'm ngl i just think serimachi is a dead end, when inactive lynching remains a last resort and the day is young. i don't think that post is quite as LAMIST as the one herbe later quoted, i just want to voice that idk if this matters 100% yet


----------



## mewtini

i am ok with a seri wagon if it really comes to it, but i've learned my lesson :(


----------



## rari_teh

mewtini said:


> i'm ngl i just think serimachi is a dead end, when inactive lynching remains a last resort and the day is young. i don't think that post is quite as LAMIST as the one herbe later quoted, i just want to voice that idk if this matters 100% yet


I think this matters 15% at most rn, but since we’re talking about it, wynaut?


----------



## Herbe

mewtini said:


> if we're thinking about the same thing (unlikely selfheal?), i also replied to this bit earlier


yeah i accepted mewtini's point tbh
i don't expect anyone else to vote for him rn


----------



## Herbe

*by Him i mean seri, cause i'm just doing it for the sake of doing something, and pressuring a semi inactive


----------



## mewtini

Herbe said:


> i don't expect anyone else to vote for him rn


sorry! i don't want to shut you down either, i'm glad you said something because i did wonder about seri (esp when everyone else was autotownreading him)


----------



## mewtini

rari_teh said:


> I think this matters 15% at most rn, but since we’re talking about it, wynaut?


which part are you asking about, sorry?


----------



## Eifie

I think every wagon is a dead end and we are all town. Butterfree is making the kills via a secret poll in a telegram channel that only spectators can access. The roles are all randomized from the mafiascum wiki and none of our night actions actually do anything. All of our role PMs were made in MS Paint. All of the posts in this thread are posted by bots at random intervals generated using Markov chains. Everybody on reddit is a robot except you.


----------



## rari_teh

mewtini said:


> which part are you asking about, sorry?


I’m talking about all the spec regarding seri
It ain’t much relevant as of now, but since somebody started talking about him, might as well talk about him
(maybe I’m being too simplistic)


----------



## Keldeo

Herbe/mewtini, talk to me about how you feel about the thoughts "serimachi's mindset of 'there not being enough to go on' has been consistent throughout this game" and "that makes serimachi town"? Without looking back I believe in the first and idk how I feel about the second but it would be nice I guess.

Also, thoughts on Eifie's villa read on serimachi's thought that the roles were not assigned randomly, which might mean that if he is mafia he has a Known Name on his team.

He feels sincere enough to me, but I agree that I would like to hear more from @serimachi , particularly the people he feels are less likely to be mafia based on their roles.

Still not here, sorry.


----------



## Eifie

Keldeo said he only had time to haha-react to funny posts, but he love-reacted to my 100% serious post just now. This is a clear contradiction.


----------



## Eifie

see y'all in like 46 hours tbh


----------



## rari_teh

Eifie said:


> I think every wagon is a dead end and we are all town. Butterfree is making the kills via a secret poll in a telegram channel that only spectators can access. The roles are all randomized from the mafiascum wiki and none of our night actions actually do anything. All of our role PMs were made in MS Paint. All of the posts in this thread are posted by bots at random intervals generated using Markov chains. Everybody on reddit is a robot except you.


You’re saying that I’m a bot?! Hahahahahah how prepostruntime error 8: stack overflow


----------



## mewtini

Eifie said:


> All of the posts in this thread are posted by bots at random intervals generated using Markov chains


damn girl you a programmer tho? 

anyway i'll reply to everything else momentarily


----------



## rari_teh

Keldeo said:


> Also, thoughts on Eifie's villa read on serimachi's thought that the roles were not assigned randomly, which might mean that if he is mafia he has a Known Name on his team.


----------



## mewtini

Keldeo said:


> Also, thoughts on Eifie's villa read on serimachi's thought that the roles were not assigned randomly, which might mean that if he is mafia he has a Known Name on his team.


in the meantime before i reply - i'm not going to lie, i didn't really understand what the random/not-random assignment meant


----------



## Keldeo

Spoiler






Eifie said:


> Keldeo said he only had time to haha-react to funny posts, but he love-reacted to my 100% serious post just now. This is a clear contradiction.


I'm volume clear, try again. 



I'm totally still not here but Otter's claim was what I was expecting if she was telling the truth about the whole "it will never happen if I say it", which... :/ It's more plausible to me now that her EOD was genuine. Either way would not really support lunching her.

I am still strongly townreading Eifie, kyeugh, mewtini, rari_teh, IndigoEmmy, and Seshas.



rari_teh said:


>


What are your thoughts on that point?


----------



## rari_teh

mewtini said:


> in the meantime before i reply - i'm not going to lie, i didn't really understand what the random/not-random assignment meant


Basically seri specced in his very first post around the idea of Butterfree assigning more important roles manually to people she trusted more, which Butterfree obviously immediately denied.


----------



## mewtini

rari_teh said:


> Basically seri specced in his very first post around the idea of Butterfree assigning more important roles manually to people she trusted more, which Butterfree obviously immediately denied.


oh. wtf. gotcha. yeah i remembered that discussion in earlythread, i just didn't know what they were even asking her about really. ty


----------



## rari_teh

Keldeo said:


> What are your thoughts on that point?


If serimachi is ever confirmed mafia, one of the Old Timers™ is all but confirmed to be the mafia don


----------



## Keldeo

rari_teh said:


> If serimachi is ever confirmed mafia, one of the Old Timers™ is all but confirmed to be the mafia don


If that were true, why would he speculate on it in the thread?

wifom.gif


----------



## mewtini

rari_teh said:


> If serimachi is ever confirmed mafia, one of the Old Timers™ is all but confirmed to be the mafia don


seri asked that so early though. do we even know that they know who the bigshots here are? (since they're not tcod-familiar iirc?)


----------



## Herbe

Keldeo said:


> "serimachi's mindset of 'there not being enough to go on' has been consistent throughout this game"


i don't necessarily think that you can make a broad statement of this based on 4 posts? my suspicion isn't about inconsistency, it's that it feels.... fake? to me? overly-naive?
i'm not scumlocked on serimachi but it's my best lynch idea right now


----------



## Herbe

mewtini said:


> seri asked that so early though. do we even know that they know who the bigshots here are? (since they're not tcod-familiar iirc?)


hypothetically, it's entirely possible that mafiachat just talked about how experienced they were in relation to each other. maybe n0, since it was early in the day he said that.


----------



## mewtini

mewtini said:


> i'm ngl i just think serimachi is a dead end, when inactive lynching remains a last resort and the day is young. i don't think that post is quite as LAMIST as the one herbe later quoted, i just want to voice that idk if this matters 100% yet





rari_teh said:


> I think this matters 15% at most rn, but since we’re talking about it, wynaut?


so - i don't think it matters yet because seri is currently (and likely will be, at least until next day phase) in the inactive-lynch pile. i'd rather try to get somewhere with something more solid than that, but i def wasn't against toying with it for a bit since we don't have any other ideas i think? at least i really do not rn, not to the point of campaigning for anything



Keldeo said:


> Herbe/mewtini, talk to me about how you feel about the thoughts "serimachi's mindset of 'there not being enough to go on' has been consistent throughout this game" and "that makes serimachi town"? Without looking back I believe in the first and idk how I feel about the second but it would be nice I guess.


are you asking about these two things independently, or in tandem?


----------



## mewtini

Keldeo said:


> Also, thoughts on Eifie's villa read on serimachi's thought that the roles were not assigned randomly, which might mean that if he is mafia he has a Known Name on his team.


i'm going to expose myself and say that i don't really know what the phrase 'villa read' means, oops. i thought a bit ago that this was kind of a dead-end too but upon thought i guess it is kind of weird, i like herbe's post about it above and it seems like something a silly mafioso could do hahaha



Keldeo said:


> I'm totally still not here but Otter's claim was what I was expecting if she was telling the truth about the whole "it will never happen if I say it", which... :/ It's more plausible to me now that her EOD was genuine. Either way would not really support lunching her.


+1. her roleclaim lined up pretty well with her EoD and i think that what mf said about, like, how maybe trying to paraphrase/parse her role during the pressure of EoD was 'headbreaking' sums up my thoughts pretty well; i'm not even really advocating a vigilante kill either. i want to hear more from her


----------



## rari_teh

Keldeo said:


> If that were true, why would he speculate on it in the thread?
> 
> wifom.gif


Maybe out of naïveté
Maybe he isn’t mafia after all
Maybe that absurd speculation is a part of his “sorry, newcomer ” act and was suggested by the mafia (this one I highly doubt)


mewtini said:


> seri asked that so early though. do we even know that they know who the bigshots here are? (since they're not tcod-familiar iirc?)


I thought everybody in the mafia knew who’s the don. Don’t they??


----------



## Herbe

mewtini said:


> i'd rather try to get somewhere with something more solid than that


yeah to be fair this discussion just started because i was bored of there not being discussion so serimachi was my best idea a couple pages ago
please, actively entertain other ideas! seriously, that's why i made my bigpost


----------



## mewtini

Keldeo said:


> Also, thoughts on Eifie's villa read on serimachi's thought that the roles were not assigned randomly, which might mean that if he is mafia he has a Known Name on his team.


i'd like to hear your thoughts on this too though; it seems like you have something in mind? (then again maybe not since you mentioned that they felt sincere)


----------



## Herbe

rari_teh said:


> I thought everybody in the mafia knew who’s the don. Don’t they??


by bigshots mewtini probably means well known, good players on the forum. like negrek


----------



## mewtini

rari_teh said:


> I thought everybody in the mafia knew who’s the don. Don’t they??


they do! i meant bigshot as in people who are Big Mafia Players on this site that would make them think bfree assigned those people, specifically, to maf


----------



## Keldeo

Urgh, sorry, I thought it was serimachi who posted being surprised at how many pages of speculation there had been in the way early game, but it was actually kokorico. Never mind my first question.

Mewtini, a villa read is a townread, sorry. I'm not sure how they could be independent since the second statement depends on the first, but the question doesn't actually work anyway.


----------



## rari_teh

mewtini said:


> they do! i meant bigshot as in people who are Big Mafia Players on this site that would make them think bfree assigned those people, specifically, to maf


Aaaah got it.
Well, that question is as easy as hovering one’s mouse pointer over a player’s username. Keldeo’s eighth TCoDversary was in April 5th and you (mewtini) are here for over nine years.


----------



## mewtini

Keldeo said:


> I'm not sure how they could be independent since the second statement depends on the first, but the question doesn't actually work anyway.


tbh i was just trying to figure out what villa read meant after seeing it for the 5th time and i just decided to give up and wait for an explanation :') sorry. just got myself confused



Keldeo said:


> Herbe/mewtini, talk to me about how you feel about the thoughts "serimachi's mindset of 'there not being enough to go on' has been consistent throughout this game" and "that makes serimachi town"? Without looking back I believe in the first and idk how I feel about the second but it would be nice I guess.


it has been consistent throughout this game, i just don't know what 'consistency' means when it's across posts 246 and 1900. they were around to wonder about eifie (and i get that her memeing could seem weird to a first-timer) but then disappeared/didn't reply to the posts afterward saying "nah, that's just how she is" which is sort of weird idk i guess but

on the other hand if seri were actually mafia and participating in wolfchat i would think that they'd dissuade them from being that weird about her (i mean i guess it did make eif - and therefore me, who has been inadvertently sheeping her - townread, but w/e). idk. i just think it's hard to talk about when it's only 4 posts; if this had happened d1 when i was less wary i'd probably go for a baby version of an ILS read, but


----------



## mewtini

rari_teh said:


> Well, that question is as easy as hovering one’s mouse pointer over a player’s username. Keldeo’s eighth TCoDversary was in April 5th and you (mewtini) are here for over nine years.


if seri really were as naive/disengaged as they'd been saying, i wouldn't take it for granted that they knew this. also i've been here for a long time but i was a) gone for a long time, so i haven't even really read a lot of mafia here, and def not enough to know others' playstyles and b) i'm not a mafia veteran and this is still my first game as someone with a functioning frontal lobe


----------



## Keldeo

Villa read is actually when you think someone has a large European estate, which they must have bought through their mafia connections

but yeah disregard my points about seri, I was remembering the wrong post. No real opinion on him.


----------



## Herbe

well, guess we're just kinda sitting until seri responds
i reaaaaally wish mist1422 would unvote panini. especially considering he said he didn't even read anything she said. 
. wait, am I on to something here? anyone want to revisit the mist1422 case? i know eifie hypocop cleared him but thats hypothetical

ofc i could be rememebering wrong and someone else altogether was the one that voted panini w/o reading her post


----------



## mewtini

Herbe said:


> well, guess we're just kinda sitting until seri responds
> i reaaaaally wish mist1422 would unvote panini. especially considering he said he didn't even read anything she said.
> . wait, am I on to something here? anyone want to revisit the mist1422 case? i know eifie hypocop cleared him but thats hypothetical
> 
> ofc i could be rememebering wrong and someone else altogether was the one that voted panini w/o reading her post


mist voted panini at first without reading (based off of boq's read during EoD) but i linked mist to panini's longpost that (for now) clears her. mist said that they read it but i think they were signing off for the day or something and are revisiting it later

idk if there's much to the mist case rn honestly


----------



## mewtini

hit post too soon. idk if there's a lot, i think they're an inactive who's been slightly more active than others; they also said earlygame that seshas was green which agrees with my own read, and idk how they know that but i'm fine with it for now

i'm ok if you want to look back obviously. i don't really have thoughts other than Hmm. (Mostly) Inactive!


----------



## kyeugh

are we sussing on seri because they said they can’t keep up and don’t think there are any solid leads rn


----------



## mewtini

kyeugh said:


> are we sussing on seri because they said they can’t keep up and don’t think there are any solid leads rn


p much, just weird post vibe but that's likely confbias


----------



## Herbe

that's fine mewtini it was just kinda crackpot lmao

and i really don't have any better ideas at the moment kyeugh, they just gave me fakey vibes


----------



## mewtini

Herbe said:


> that's fine mewtini it was just kinda crackpot lmao


oh at this point i'm not anti-crackpot :D as long as we all realize it's maybe crackpot so far given the info we have. feel free to discuss hehe, i'll be maybe less active because i have something due soon but i'm around im dropping out


----------



## rari_teh

mewtini said:


> if seri really were as naive/disengaged as they'd been saying, i wouldn't take it for granted that they knew this. also i've been here for a long time but i was a) gone for a long time, so i haven't even really read a lot of mafia here, and def not enough to know others' playstyles and b) i'm not a mafia veteran and this is still my first game as someone with a functioning frontal lobe


First of all, I must commend you for remembering the password of a forum account you haven’t been to in a long time
He could have taken a hint from this:


Eifie said:


> in!
> 
> I hope it doesn't matter that I got spoiled on a lot of the twists of the last one?





kokorico said:


> Oh wow, I remember TCoD! I don't think I ever posted much and hell if I know what my username used to be, but this place was the shit in like 2011-2012.


and similar comments about ye olde days and the last TV Tropes Mafia on the first pages of this very thread


----------



## rari_teh

I’d say this speculation is too crackpot to warrant a wagon for the time being, but not crackpot enough to be undiscussable


----------



## mewtini

rari_teh said:


> First of all, I must commend you for remembering the password of a forum account you haven’t been to in a long time


haha! thanks, but it was definitely not a huge feat. my disappearance from tcod was certainly a dramatic one



rari_teh said:


> and similar comments about ye olde days and the last TV Tropes Mafia on the first pages of this very thread


i fear this is borderline too crackpot. idk why a new user would assume someone being around for a while would make them mafiamaster3000

also i really don't want either of those people to be implicated :C


----------



## mewtini

i think once we get to that point maybe we have to accept that there's not enough to go on haha


----------



## rari_teh

mewtini said:


> i fear this is borderline too crackpot. idk why a new user would assume someone being around for a while would make them mafiamaster3000


Not necessarily *mafiamaster*, but more experienced. He said…


serimachi said:


> If she's not distributing powers completely randomly, I think we should also consider that Butterfree might give the most powerful/important/interesting roles to experienced players or people she trusts, so as to keep the game interesting.





mewtini said:


> i think once we get to that point maybe we have to accept that there's not enough to go on haha


I subscribe to this. We’re trying to get a read on a person who posted four times on a +2000-post thread. There’s no _good _reason to say serimachi is mafia or town atm imo
I suggest we move topics? If I may pull one person to the spotlights who’s not speaking much, @Stryke, hi, hello, how are you?


----------



## Herbe

Yeah it's cool to move topics.
We have two more irl days to talk, anyway, so I bet we'll get somewhere eventually


----------



## mewtini

rari_teh said:


> I suggest we move topics? If I may pull one person to the spotlights who’s not speaking much, @Stryke, hi, hello, how are you?


i was hoping someone would turn to this tbh


rari_teh said:


> Not necessarily *mafiamaster*, but more experienced. (+ quotes)


yeah that's fair! idk what to make of it, like, if i read it a certain way i'm like "ok derpclear" but if i read it other ways, ... well.

i didn't mean to shut you down either btw


----------



## mewtini

rari_teh said:


> @Stryke, hi, hello, how are you?


when you get here i'd also be interested in hearing about your tierlist (like particularly strong pulls in either direction), i'm trying to figure out what to make of its discrepancies with a lot of the other lists floating around


----------



## Stryke

mewtini said:


> when you get here i'd also be interested in hearing about your tierlist (like particularly strong pulls in either direction), i'm trying to figure out what to make of its discrepancies with a lot of the other lists floating around


Yeah, alright, I'll elaborate on my bad vibes people because that's where I have the most to say.
With VM, it just seems like he always knows what to say to rile us up. It was his roleclaim that incited a bunch of discussion, and was inadvertently what made us lynch ILS I feel, since if I remember right ILS' reaction to that was what made us suspicious of him to begin with. Now in this day phase, he came out of nowhere real quick to say he got a mysterious message that supposedly clears kyeugh of any scum connotations, and we all jumped on that again. It all just feels like a lot of clever misdirection to incite discussion that doesn't even matter in the long run and only serves to distract us from rooting out other scum and go after innocents. For all I know, he could be 100% telling the truth, but I am getting very bad vibes from all the stuff he's been saying in general.
As for Mist, it's just the fact that he's only been posting like two sentence posts at most. I haven't played that many games with him, so I'm not in too much of a position to make judgements I guess, but I know that he's not a newcomer to mafia, so it's a bit odd that he doesn't have any posts with that much substance in them yet. I might be wrong here since I'm on mobile and can't really check, but I feel like everyone else that's been active on this thread has had at least one post that was a paragraph or longer, save for Odie_Pie, who isn't here, Flora, who has their own stuff to deal with rl, and RNP, who looks like he's just here to shitpost. Just kinda waiting to see some more stuff from him, really


----------



## kyeugh

is there any particular reason we stopped talking about who the boq lynch might implicate
i think that was a much better line of discussion tbh


----------



## rari_teh

kyeugh said:


> is there any particular reason we stopped talking about who the boq lynch might implicate
> i think that was a much better line of discussion tbh


iirc we pretty much settled on “he was helpful town who wasn’t likely to be protected by a doctor”


----------



## rari_teh

If you have theories of your own regarding boq’s murder, by all means do tell


----------



## Eifie

@Stryke, that's pretty cool. It sounds like you do have original thoughts after all! And I am interested in hearing them because you seem to be seeing things from a refreshingly different point of view.

Can you tell me about good vibes on Panini?


----------



## rari_teh

Stryke said:


> With VM, it just seems like he always knows what to say to rile us up. It was his roleclaim that incited a bunch of discussion, and was inadvertently what made us lynch ILS I feel, since if I remember right ILS' reaction to that was what made us suspicious of him to begin with. Now in this day phase, he came out of nowhere real quick to say he got a mysterious message that supposedly clears kyeugh of any scum connotations, and we all jumped on that again. It all just feels like a lot of clever misdirection to incite discussion that doesn't even matter in the long run and only serves to distract us from rooting out other scum and go after innocents. For all I know, he could be 100% telling the truth, but I am getting very bad vibes from all the stuff he's been saying in general.


I’ve been trying to cook up a good counterpoint to this but I kinda… can’t? The only part of this that I cannot get under to is your flimsy connection between Vipera and the genesis of ILS’s lynchtrain: no way in hell would mafia!Vipera be able to guess that a) people would take his joke seriously, b) one of those people would be ILS and c) his reaction would ultimately result in his lynching

Apart from that, yeah, you’re right…? I don’t know, I don’t get any weird vibes from VM, I genuinely think he’s just happened to have a lot of wacky shit happening to him. I don’t deny I might as well be wrong, though.


----------



## kyeugh

eh i don’t really have any theories so much as just like
i think speculating around the things boq said is more productive than just aiming at random people and hoping it sticks


----------



## Eifie

@Keldeo, I forget how you felt about M&F and I'm still too lazy to check mason chat, obviously. Can you remind me? Is there anything you'd like to know that would help you sort her?

I'm pretty whatever about M&F's answers to me but I also don't feel like engaging with them because I think it will just end up being a debate about how mafia should be played and I'm totally not here for that. I think there might be a more interesting dynamic to observe between M&F and someone she's suspicious of. It's kind of a weird ask, but maybe Keldeo will want to humour me.


----------



## Eifie

Xenforo that is not the beaming face with smiling eyes emoji. Please.


----------



## Stryke

rari_teh said:


> I’ve been trying to cook up a good counterpoint to this but I kinda… can’t? The only part of this that I cannot get under to is your flimsy connection between Vipera and the genesis of ILS’s lynchtrain: no way in hell would mafia!Vipera be able to guess that a) people would take his joke seriously, b) one of those people would be ILS and c) his reaction would ultimately result in his lynching
> 
> Apart from that, yeah, you’re right…? I don’t know, I don’t get any weird vibes from VM, I genuinely think he’s just happened to have a lot of wacky shit happening to him. I don’t deny I might as well be wrong, though.


Yeah I'm not saying he had it all planned from the start but I wouldn't be surprised if he was looking to ruffle some feathers. ILS just happened to be caught in the chaos and it just snowballed from there


----------



## mewtini

kyeugh said:


> is there any particular reason we stopped talking about who the boq lynch might implicate
> i think that was a much better line of discussion tbh


i kinda think that the three of us who were here didn't know how to talk about that lol. at least i didn't :x and i thought we'd reached consensus that he was either bodyguard (the semiweird theory that the flavor made me gravitate towards) or just a confusingish killing off of a useful town


----------



## mewtini

but also tbh i was actually genuinely interested in just hearing real thoughts from stryke so i'm glad that this offshoot convo happened, it'd been bothering me a bit for a while


----------



## mewtini

Stryke said:


> Yeah I'm not saying he had it all planned from the start but I wouldn't be surprised if he was looking to ruffle some feathers. ILS just happened to be caught in the chaos and it just snowballed from there


do you think he intended for his "roleclaim" to be taken seriously ... ? idk i don't really think it was even a ruffle attempt there, i just don't know if i agree with the premise of this part


----------



## Stryke

mewtini said:


> do you think he intended for his "roleclaim" to be taken seriously ... ? idk i don't really think it was even a ruffle attempt there, i just don't know if i agree with the premise of this part


I mean... yeah. Obviously not the part about lynching JackPK, but the very first post he made in the thread was to roleclaim. I guess maybe it could be seen as trying to raise a valid point about how weird it is that he didn't get Jack's role even though that was supposed to be his thing, but its still very weird to me that he roleclaimed right off the bat.


----------



## Stryke

Also its getting late and I still have some physics work to do, so I'm just gonna post Panini thoughts tmrw. I'll still be around to make short posts though


----------



## mewtini

Stryke said:


> I mean... yeah. Obviously not the part about lynching JackPK, but the very first post he made in the thread was to roleclaim. I guess maybe it could be seen as trying to raise a valid point about how weird it is that he didn't get Jack's role even though that was supposed to be his thing, but its still very weird to me that he roleclaimed right off the bat.


oh i meant his joke claim, sorry


----------



## mewtini

might've misinterpreted what you said oops


----------



## rari_teh

It’s half past one in the morning, so I’m signing off. Sleep tight y’all! :3
I will be looking forward to your thoughts regarding Panini tomorrow


----------



## mewtini

Stryke said:


> but its still very weird to me that he roleclaimed right off the bat.


er, i think this was because negrek had roleclaimed a very related role just before tbh


----------



## Stryke

mewtini said:


> er, i think this was because negrek had roleclaimed a very related role just before tbh


VM roleclaimed in post #74, and Negrek roleclaimed in post #105.


----------



## mewtini

Stryke said:


> VM roleclaimed in post #74, and Negrek roleclaimed in post #105.


oh wow. i totally must've flipped that. lmfao sorry for every post i'd made assuming this was the other way around

anyway i still think that vm claimed it because of a pretty ez reason lol, jack showing up as non-mafia would've confused vm who thought that he'd get any non-mafia role?


----------



## mewtini

sorry if i'm coming off aggressive, i really see no reason to assume that vm has been lying at any point so far when he a) has seemed so casual when he's appeared thus far, b) made an early roleclaim for a pretty benevolent reason, i think? and c) made it a point to say he'd absorbed ILS' role, instead of just saying he got deadly doctor from jack after he'd reread his role - it doesn't seem like the logical step a red-aligned person would make, it just wasn't even necessary to say that to get credibility


----------



## mewtini

then again every time i post defending anyone i imagine the mafiachat just screenshotting me and going "lmao" and then i get sad because i've defenseposted for like half the roster at this point.,


----------



## Stryke

mewtini said:


> sorry if i'm coming off aggressive, i really see no reason to assume that vm has been lying at any point so far when he a) has seemed so casual when he's appeared thus far, b) made an early roleclaim for a pretty benevolent reason, i think? and c) made it a point to say he'd absorbed ILS' role, instead of just saying he got deadly doctor from jack after he'd reread his role - it doesn't seem like the logical step a red-aligned person would make, it just wasn't even necessary to say that to get credibility


I don't mind, you're just trying to defend your viewpoint, I get it. I admit VM has been pretty casual and chill thus far, so I can see how it'd be a bit of a stretch. I just don't like all the discussion that's been forming with him at the center, and its happened enough times for me to get a bit wary of what he says that ends up sparking these discussions


----------



## mewtini

no that's fair! thanks for voicing your thoughts, too, especially since no one else has been really saying as much. i concede a lot of weird stuff has been happening to him, it just seems _so_ random that it never sparked "is he making it up?" flags for me


----------



## M&F

seri is increasingly striking me as an useful inactive lynch piñata, yeah; if we drive that train in and the result we get is mafia, that's potentially be a solid source of raised eyebrows; it'd clear Eifie more solidly for one, and it'd possibly turn that strange bit of speculation into a lead

that said, I do think we can still keep discussing boq, because while the healer-dodging explains why the mob would've avoided more obvious targets, there could still be something short of random.org that made him a priority out of the low priorities

that, and also, investigating the ILS wagon for scum hopping on the opportunity; I haven't been able to get around to that task yet but you're all invited-



Eifie said:


> I'm pretty whatever about M&F's answers to me but I also don't feel like engaging with them because I think it will just end up being a debate about how mafia should be played and I'm totally not here for that.


I feel like we've ended up doing the same thing on meowfia too lmao


----------



## Panini

Just popping in to drop some thoughts off about stuff that’s been said since I left:

It’s kind of hard not to sympathise with serimachi’s plight considering I think this thread is pretty easy to get lost in. I think part of the reason the newbie vibe feels a bit stilted is like. The vagueness to being surprised at a lot of speculation when as town that’s kind of what you expect going into it because you don’t actually know anything combined with like. That big paragraph about Eifie but no one else really given a glance? Like there’s a big disconnect between coming in D1 and writing some different explanations for “why is Eifie sus” and then coming in D2 and taking the opposite, more idk approach.

It might help to hear a bit more specifically how extensive your experience is @serimachi if you don’t mind getting further into that. Have you played IRL? If not have you read games prior to this one? Others have already said the “please take a stab at the speculation thing” so I won’t beat it to death or anything but it’d definitely be great to hear any more specific thoughts and names you have too.

Honestly I’m kind of coming around on Otter’s role claim. I think by default I find “I read this wrong the first time” to be a little easy to fake. But. Going back to what I said earlier I still think the ILS/Otter split happening all the way to the end makes me feel like Otter didn’t have a lot of movement from teammates to bail her out - and if they were waiting for her to come back and claim before saving her the right way to do that is not to have her claim jester.

I actually really like (and appreciate!) what Stryke came back with for the most part. The wall esp. Felt just kinda. Good. A little bit of variation from what we’re considering thread normal but not wildly agenda-like yknow. The followup post on VM/Mist reasoning was good too (even though what I think personally wrt to VM is more in line with mewtini’s thoughts in #2095). I’m a little surprised I’m that high up so I want to know what he has to say about me too really and personally I’d also like to hear a quick bit more about the Mr. Ultracool and rari_teh reads too if you have the time. 

Unsurprisingly I don’t find Mist’s (I feel weird calling you this instead of chem for some reason lol) return to thread satisfying and it makes me sad. Like voting me because Boq ended on me is so minimum leg work on night kill analysis that it might as well be unjustified. I also feel weird about acknowledging my post without really saying anything about it making some excuse about being too lazy to go somewhere else. Just feels a bit put upon and makes me personally grumpy because I’d prefer firmer words from him about how he feels about me given he’s one of the people in this game that I’m more familiar with and I’d like to think vice versa.

I second wagonanalysis in the morning might be good but just to reiterate if it is ILS/Otter both as villagers (or Otter as 3p, eitherway) there probably wouldn't be a lot of pressure for mafia to actually be _on_ the wagon since it was sitting that way for quite some time before EOD and no one on their team would've been in immediate danger


----------



## Eifie

*unvote Panini*

I'm cool giving her more time


----------



## Eifie

I think Ottercopter is most likely not an in-group mafia but I feel like I'll never be able to trust her more than like 40-50% after that EoD claim so I still advocate for a vigilante to resolve her. If she does actually flip mafia I'd actually be very suspicious of RNP, who was sort of derailing and distracting at the end of the day and adding more confusion and I've been wondering if there was a purpose to it. It reminds me a tiny bit of the time when he was kinda posting weird stuff as a last-ditch attempt to get people to vote me instead of Panini in the invitational.


----------



## Eifie

Oh yeah, I bothered to actually read the page for A God Am I and okay bodyguard does not fit that. I wonder if it could be something like he martyrs himself (takes the kill that night) in order to ~ascend~ and achieve something after his death?

Or maybe the mafia just plain killed him but what is that satisfied smile smh


----------



## Eifie

Eifie said:


> Oh yeah, I bothered to actually read the page for A God Am I and okay bodyguard does not fit that. I wonder if it could be something like he martyrs himself (takes the kill that night) in order to ~ascend~ and achieve something after his death?
> 
> Or maybe the mafia just plain killed him but what is that satisfied smile smh


And I also just remembered, here is the bodyguard flavour from the previous game.

Not that it necessarily has to be the same since some things must have changed, but there it is.


----------



## rari_teh

Come on guys this was the easiest catch-up EVER smh



M&F said:


> that, and also, investigating the ILS wagon for scum hopping on the opportunity; I haven't been able to get around to that task yet but you're all invited-


There was a moment at night I came very close to logging in just to call for this. I feel like there hasn’t been enough thought put into the composition of his wagon.

To facilitate things, here’s a list of every time somebody voted on ILS or moved their vote from ILS to someone else, followed by the Otterwagon × ILSwagon headcount at the time, largest wagon in bold (data taken from Butterfree’s EoD post):


*mewtini* votes *I liek Squirtles* (#1092)ILS 1 × 1 Otter (Largest: Keldeo, Odie_Pie (2))*Boquise* votes *I liek Squirtles* (#1141)*ILS *2 × 1 Otter (Largest: Keldeo, Odie_Pie, ILS (2))*Herbe* votes *I liek Squirtles* (#1211)*ILS *3 × 2 Otter*Keldeo* votes *I liek Squirtles* (#1254)*ILS* 4 × 3 Otter*Mawile* votes *I liek Squirtles* (#1256)*ILS* 5 × 3 Otter*Negrek* votes *I liek Squirtles* (#1258)*ILS *6 × 3 Otter*Keldeo* votes *Ottercopter* (#1262)*ILS* 5 × 4 Otter*Boquise* votes *Ottercopter* (#1263)ILS 4 × 5 *Otter**Ottercopter* votes *I liek Squirtles* (#1353)ILS 5 × 6 *Otter**kyeugh* votes *I liek Squirtles* (#1406)*ILS *6 × 4 Otter*Keldeo* votes *I liek Squirtles* (#1432)*ILS* 7 × 3 Otter*Ottercopter* votes *abstain* (#1459)*ILS* 6 × 5 Otter*mewtini* votes *Ottercopter* (#1463)ILS 5 × 6 *Otter**kyeugh* votes *Ottercopter* (#1465)ILS 4 × 6 *Otter**mewtini* votes *I liek Squirtles* (#1473)*ILS* 5 × 4 Otter

In the end, the people who had their votes on ILS were Herbe, Keldeo, Mawile, Negrek and mewtini.

What does this all mean? I still haven’t made my mind, but we may make something out of it. Still, during this discussion, I invite everybody to print this Panini quote out and hang on the wall for easy reference:



Panini said:


> just to reiterate if it is ILS/Otter both as villagers (or Otter as 3p, eitherway) there probably wouldn't be a lot of pressure for mafia to actually be _on_ the wagon since it was sitting that way for quite some time before EOD and no one on their team would've been in immediate danger


----------



## kyeugh

well i’m finally going to closely read the last seven pages so bear with me. thoughts below as i go. i have some information but i’d like to get through this first.
i like herbe in #1973. probably one of the townier posts i’ve seen here so far, feels very real/searchy and i think scum is ok with letting the thread languish so that’s a point in his favor


Herbe said:


> RNP just seems like, benign to me. Like weird, yes, but maybe that's just how he operates.


tbf yes it is pretty much classic rnp play to sort of just dick around, and he is basically always read as scum. except actually i think he tries a bit harder when he’s scum bc people are relying on him. so that’s something.
i was going to say that i don’t really see why he would claim his trope and not his power given the possible presence of a trope killer, but actually i don’t think there is one? they would’ve had plenty of chances to act by now. i dont think that’s why rnp felt comfortable divulging his trope, i still find that odd tbh but maybe he wasn’t alert to the potential of a trope killer—anyway, just. thoughts.


mewtini said:


> i think i'm solidly pro-herbe




yall touched on flora and i just want to chip in my two cents, tbh i don’t really get scum vibes yeah. like... they do have stuff going on irl but also they’re a pretty quiet player in games that don’t have 3000000 posts so eh this is basically the level of activity i would expect from town flora
i think if they were scum their teammates might issue them to post more if anything given the trend of falling back on inactives


rari_teh said:


> Sorry, I’ll stay hush for the moment D:
> I’m afraid of taking a misstep and then be accused of Wrongful Shade™, or worse, convincing a majority of their guilt and cause yet another wrongful death. I’ll be dredging up my sus’s post history, though, maybe I can grasp onto something…


i don’t like this tbh
the entire serimachi thing seems like lot of hot air to me honestly. i don’t really buy it at all and i think scum leans based on their like four posts is very much grasping at the straws and i dislike how little skepticism there seemed to be about it

is rari the same person who was looking at people’a forum activity and noting who was in PMs earlier? that + the checking how long people have been registered on tcod thing (??)... i really don’t like this energy


rari_teh said:


> I’ve been trying to cook up a good counterpoint to this but I kinda… can’t?


imo the counterpoint is that it’s not impossible or even implausible that these things all happened to vm, and just dumping the information into chat and then leaving is probably the LEAST schemey/scummy way to deal with it. stryke’s case here (against a probable doctor btw) is basically “this guy has a lot of information (... like 2 information) that people react strongly to. ergo scum” which honestly makes me regard stryke more suspiciously than vm


Eifie said:


> Oh yeah, I bothered to actually read the page for A God Am I and okay bodyguard does not fit that. I wonder if it could be something like he martyrs himself (takes the kill that night) in order to ~ascend~ and achieve something after his death?
> 
> Or maybe the mafia just plain killed him but what is that satisfied smile smh


agree with this. i get weird vibes from the fact that everyone kind of dropped the discussion of the only new information we got overnight bc they settled on some lukewarm idea of what his role might have been, and then got right back into pushing on random inactives. i really feel like a wolf might have been steering the narrative there honestly. weird vibes.

anyway that’s all my catch up. hopefully none of this draft got eaten while i was typing  it and it all holds  up


----------



## Eifie

rari_teh said:


> Still, during this discussion, I invite everybody to print this Panini quote out and hang on the wall for easy reference:


I think you've answered your own question on why people don't seem to care that much about the wagon formation. At least that's why I don't care at all at the moment. I would be pretty surprised if Ottercopter was an in-group mafia.


----------



## rari_teh

kyeugh said:


> i think if they were scum their teammates might issue them to post more if anything given the trend of falling back on inactives


Good point. Maybe we should start steering our attentions towards people who are always there, but not quite? As in, present enough not to be considered inactive, yet not so active that would be too hard to participate at the mafia chat at the same time?



kyeugh said:


> i don’t like this tbh


The moment I wrote that I was going to keep my suspicions for myself for the time being, I thought “oh boy, qva is sure gonna have a problem with this”. I guess I was right.



kyeugh said:


> the entire serimachi thing seems like lot of hot air to me honestly. i don’t really buy it at all and i think scum leans based on their like four posts is very much grasping at the straws and i dislike how little skepticism there seemed to be about it


I completely agree.



kyeugh said:


> is rari the same person who was looking at people’a forum activity and noting who was in PMs earlier? that + the checking how long people have been registered on tcod thing (??)... i really don’t like this energy


I think you didn’t get this one right. Back in the 2nd day of D1, as I signed off, I noted there was one person who was in a PM, but it’s not like I’m stalking people and noting what they are doing. As I said at the moment, my cursor rested on the username and I noticed they were in a PM. I didn’t even say who that was bc _that_ indeed would be shit-stirring for no good reason.

_The checking how long people have been registered on tcod thing_ was in the context of explaining how serimachi could easily know that there are both veterans and newbies in this game, as mewtini speculated that was a sign he was interacting in the mafia chat.



kyeugh said:


> imo the counterpoint is that it’s not impossible or even implausible that these things all happened to vm, and just dumping the information into chat and then leaving is probably the LEAST schemey/scummy way to deal with it. stryke’s case here (against a probable doctor btw) is basically “this guy has a lot of information (... like 2 information) that people react strongly to. ergo scum” which honestly makes me regard stryke more suspiciously than vm


I subscribe to this.


----------



## rari_teh

Eifie said:


> I think you've answered your own question on why people don't seem to care that much about the wagon formation. At least that's why I don't care at all at the moment. I would be pretty surprised if Ottercopter was an in-group mafia.


I still don’t buy that she’s innocent. Those moves at the end of d1… idk man, “I misread my rolecard and I’m actually useful to town” seems like a very cheap way out.


----------



## Eifie

rari_teh said:


> I still don’t buy that she’s innocent. Those moves at the end of d1… idk man, “I misread my rolecard and I’m actually useful to town” seems like a very cheap way out.


Not in-group mafia doesn't mean innocent. It just means "not known to the mafia".


----------



## Eifie

gotta love when most of your mech clears can't be bothered to post in the thread

@Mist1422 @Mr. Ultracool plz.


----------



## Novae

Eifie said:


> gotta love when most of your mech clears can't be bothered to post in the thread
> 
> @Mist1422 @Mr. Ultracool plz.


whatcha need tbh


----------



## kyeugh

rari_teh said:


> I think you didn’t get this one right. Back in the 2nd day of D1, as I signed off, I noted there was one person who was in a PM, but it’s not like I’m stalking people and noting what they are doing. As I said at the moment, my cursor rested on the username and I noticed they were in a PM. I didn’t even say who that was bc _that_ indeed would be shit-stirring for no good reason.
> 
> _The checking how long people have been registered on tcod thing_ was in the context of explaining how serimachi could easily know that there are both veterans and newbies in this game, as mewtini speculated that was a sign he was interacting in the mafia chat.


i mean i understand what you're doing i just don't really like the whole, like, using out-of-game information thing to form the basis for a read i guess
for one thing it doesn't require any actual analysis which is the kind of thing you'd expect scum to do
for another it just kind of takes me out of the game tbh


rari_teh said:


> The moment I wrote that I was going to keep my suspicions for myself for the time being, I thought “oh boy, qva is sure gonna have a problem with this”. I guess I was right.


i mean it's never too late!  i don't really understand the point in keeping them to yourself?  who does that benefit?  simply say your opinions tbh


----------



## rari_teh

Mist1422 said:


> whatcha need tbh


Thoughts


----------



## kyeugh

Mist1422 said:


> whatcha need tbh


who should i vote for


----------



## rari_teh

kyeugh said:


> i mean it's never too late! i don't really understand the point in keeping them to yourself? who does that benefit? simply say your opinions tbh


If I’m wrong, it benefits either who I’m suspecting of (who might get themself into a lynchtrain) or me (who might be seen as gratuitously throwing shade at somebody above suspicion, ergo scum)
If I’m right, with all gut feelings and zero solid evidence, spilling might make me a target for the mafia


----------



## kyeugh

rari_teh said:


> If I’m wrong, it benefits either who I’m suspecting of (who might get themself into a lynchtrain) or me (who might be seen as gratuitously throwing shade at somebody above suspicion, ergo scum)
> If I’m right, with all gut feelings and zero solid evidence, spilling might make me a target for the mafia


i mean yeah but those are just risks of participating in the game innit


----------



## Eifie

Do you wanna hear about a time when I was loudly extremely wrong leading to a town loss to make you feel better?

I also have an amusing anecdote of how Butterfree was gifted the loltown crown in our last invitational!

Be confident in your thoughts imo, I don't care who turns out to be wrong in the end. I don't care much about winning. I just wanna have fun playing our best (ish) together!


----------



## rari_teh

Y’know what? You both are right.

Mawile has given me the weirdest of vibes since the beginning. There’s nothing he’s done that solidly makes me say _that’s mafia!_, but… Yeah, I feel like there’s something fishy about him.


----------



## qenya

Agree with kyeugh that it's probably worth thinking more about what "A God Am I" means. What do people think of Dreaming God (basically a Jack of All Trades who only gets hints about what each power does)? It got suggested a few pages back but nobody really seemed to pay attention to it. imo it's just about the only plausible suggestion I've heard so far that allows Boquise to have been bodyguarding someone.

Beyond cultist (which I understand the mechanics of, but not familiar with the strategy/implications so not sure how to evaluate its likelihood), the only other thing I can think of is something that plays into the "delusions of grandeur" aspect, like an info-gathering role that actually gave him false info?



Herbe said:


> I'm really wary of FoSing VM right now because he seems more plausible a doc than not (I think that's been a couple people's consensus yeah? in this discussion) and I will literally go stupid and go crazy if we mislynch a second doc.


mmhm, that was supposed to be a reductio ad absurdum, not a fos: "that would mean VM was lying, which doesn't make sense for multiple reasons".

Re: Stryke's concerns: Sure, it's a bit concerning that we're basing a lot of logic on his roleclaim being accurate... but tbh I feel like all the previous reasons we trusted VM are still valid? Like, yeah, there's always gonna be a _chance_ he's misleading us, but we can't just go through the whole game saying "well, we can't really be _sure_ about _anyone_, might as well ignore everything I didn't come up with myself ¯\_(ツ)_/¯"



rari_teh said:


> Just right out of the bat, I can remember both you and I also expressed suspicions of Keldeo at some point in d1, and I’m pretty sure there was at least one more person who did so.


Sure, but Boquise was/is clearly far more experienced/a greater threat than either of us. In any case I wasn't saying mafia!Keldeo would probably have targeted him - tbh even if he were mafia I don't think he'd be so transparent as to go after his detractor(s) straight away - more just questioning why he wasn't mentioned at all, except by M&F, when people were talking about "who did boq suspect?"



rari_teh said:


> an unavoidable egg or chicken situation


you. I like you.


----------



## qenya

Eifie said:


> Do you wanna hear about a time when I was loudly extremely wrong leading to a town loss to make you feel better?


storytime!!!


----------



## kyeugh

it's really hard not to townread someone with a chicken pfp


----------



## rari_teh

Eifie said:


> Do you wanna hear about a time when I was loudly extremely wrong leading to a town loss to make you feel better?
> 
> I also have an amusing anecdote of how Butterfree was gifted the loltown crown in our last invitational!


Please tell! :D


----------



## Eifie

Okay I'll tell when I get off work.

Mawile was actually one of my thoughts for a next choice to push because I try to form an opinion on him and always end up back at solidly null. I just... am not sure what to do about it.


----------



## kyeugh

yeah mawile is in my bad vibes pile tbh
it's weird bc it seems like a lot of people feel this way but no one can put their finger on why exactly
i'm not sure if that suggests towniness or not


----------



## qenya

rari_teh said:


> Y’know what? You both are right.
> 
> Mawile has given me the weirdest of vibes since the beginning. There’s nothing he’s done that solidly makes me say _that’s mafia!_, but… Yeah, I feel like there’s something fishy about him.


Oh yeah that reminds me I was going to skim his D1 posts since I didn't pay much attention at the time

*half an hour later*

Seems to be:

~50% jokes and memes
~25% boggling at size/speed of thread
~15% speculation about JackPK's role (which mafia!he might already have known if JackPK was in-group mafia). Some of this, but not all, matches town consensus
~5% FoSing Seshas because their (alleged) MI info didn't seem as useful as IndigoEmmy's
longish post with his reads, which seem basically the same as everyone else's. Not sure whether to consider that a towntell or scumtell or neither
jumping on the ILS wagon at end of day
Like ILS and Otter, he initially didn't seem to recognise VM's omniscienceclaim as a joke.

not sure how to read this tbh. Like, there's not a lot of mechanically useful content, admittedly, but that could just be overwhelmedness, and what there is doesn't seem 100% recycled from the rest of town. Have any of y'all played with him much? Is this shitpost ratio normal?

And rari, do you have _any_ idea what it is that's giving you "weird vibes" about him? anything might be helpful even if not concrete, but "something fishy" is unfortunately not a lot to go on :P

(also yes, I do still plan to write up thoughts about Panini and MF but I also really need to stop procrastinating on lit review. sorry. maybe tomorrow.)


----------



## IndigoClaudia

kyeugh said:


> it's really hard not to townread someone with a chicken pfp


I'm going to change my profile pic, brb in just a second...


----------



## qenya

kokorico said:


> Like, there's not a lot of mechanically useful content


Sorry, tbh on reflection this phrasing is a bit harsh. What I meant is just that he's not been one of the most active people on the thread. (ofc we are all inactives compared to eifie)


----------



## Butterfree

Here's the loltown crown story:

In the last TCoD invitational on Mafia Universe, I got Boquise lynched on D1 (he was not mafia), then hard-defended another guy for the next two days (he was mafia) while tunneling extremely hard on my theory that it was Panini and another dude (neither of them was mafia). The obvious conclusion at this stage in the game was that the dude's partner was either me or Keldeo, as we were the two people who had been hard-defending him while everyone else's interactions with him pretty definitively disproved they could have reasonably been partners. I spent most of my time on this day arguing that no seriously guys I don't think it's Keldeo, and arguing that actually that other dude I'd thought was mafia with Panini wasn't _quite_ clear. I was lynched. On the following day, Keldeo was left as the sole obvious suspect, but I, still able to speak because dead townies could speak in this game, continued to argue for the other guy, and even accidentally attempted to vote for him too.

The day ended in a tie. Keldeo was lynched at random. It was Keldeo. I was Wrong About Literally Everything and also probably the main reason everyone didn't just vote Keldeo.


----------



## rari_teh

Welp, that’s a comedy of errors and a half lol


----------



## Keldeo

I think the abovementioned would be a great way to discredit Butterfree



Spoiler



I think the funniest moment for me is that Panini voted for the other guy on that last day, breaking the tie, but her vote was a couple seconds after the deadline and was not counted, and Panini I'm so sorry for not letting you live this down



*unvote Panini*


----------



## Eifie

kokorico said:


> Sorry, tbh on reflection this phrasing is a bit harsh. What I meant is just that he's not been one of the most active people on the thread. (ofc we are all inactives compared to eifie)


sorry I'm sorry I'm trying to remove it


----------



## Novae

loltown moments are always fun

S6G11 especially was a good time


----------



## Novae

also if you're wondering why I haven't been posting a better question is probably if I'm awake or not rn


----------



## mewtini

rari_teh said:


> Y’know what? You both are right.
> 
> Mawile has given me the weirdest of vibes since the beginning. There’s nothing he’s done that solidly makes me say _that’s mafia!_, but… Yeah, I feel like there’s something fishy about him.


kind of surprised you felt weird about this one, i have to catch up now (just woke up lmao and then take a Midterm) but i feel like a fair few people among the actives have alluded to this one


----------



## mewtini

mewtini said:


> weird about this one


*weird about saying this, rather


----------



## M&F

rari_teh said:


> To facilitate things, here’s a list of every time somebody voted on ILS or moved their vote from ILS to someone else, followed by the Otterwagon × ILSwagon headcount at the time, largest wagon in bold (data taken from Butterfree’s EoD post):
> 
> 
> *mewtini* votes *I liek Squirtles* (#1092)ILS 1 × 1 Otter (Largest: Keldeo, Odie_Pie (2))*Boquise* votes *I liek Squirtles* (#1141)*ILS *2 × 1 Otter (Largest: Keldeo, Odie_Pie, ILS (2))*Herbe* votes *I liek Squirtles* (#1211)*ILS *3 × 2 Otter*Keldeo* votes *I liek Squirtles* (#1254)*ILS* 4 × 3 Otter*Mawile* votes *I liek Squirtles* (#1256)*ILS* 5 × 3 Otter*Negrek* votes *I liek Squirtles* (#1258)*ILS *6 × 3 Otter*Keldeo* votes *Ottercopter* (#1262)*ILS* 5 × 4 Otter*Boquise* votes *Ottercopter* (#1263)ILS 4 × 5 *Otter**Ottercopter* votes *I liek Squirtles* (#1353)ILS 5 × 6 *Otter**kyeugh* votes *I liek Squirtles* (#1406)*ILS *6 × 4 Otter*Keldeo* votes *I liek Squirtles* (#1432)*ILS* 7 × 3 Otter*Ottercopter* votes *abstain* (#1459)*ILS* 6 × 5 Otter*mewtini* votes *Ottercopter* (#1463)ILS 5 × 6 *Otter**kyeugh* votes *Ottercopter* (#1465)ILS 4 × 6 *Otter**mewtini* votes *I liek Squirtles* (#1473)*ILS* 5 × 4 Otter
> 
> In the end, the people who had their votes on ILS were Herbe, Keldeo, Mawile, Negrek and mewtini.


thank you very much!

the things that stand out to me from the numbers alone are that mewtini cast the first vote (but that's, like, more something to remember about if any other alarming thing happens later), and that Herbe, Mawile and Negrek were parked on ILS. now, I have a clear on Negrek (or do I) and don't offhead have other reasons to be suspicious of Herbe, but hey, look which currently-under-scrutinity player shows up here!

of course, tho, it's not just about who-voted-whom; now there's the matter of jumping back in there to see what they were posting about their votes. (also why I'm already not really counting that mewtini hammered ILS back there, being that I remember that for the moment of white-hot panic it was).



rari_teh said:


> Still, during this discussion, I invite everybody to print this Panini quote out and hang on the wall for easy reference:


like, I agree that the mob didn't _have_ to take a stance on this one, but getting innocents lynched is 1+ and blending in is useful, so I do feel that it's useful to scrutinize, even if we get nothing out of it but more "HMMMMMMMMMMM"



kyeugh said:


> tbf yes it is pretty much classic rnp play to sort of just dick around, and he is basically always read as scum. except actually i think he tries a bit harder when he’s scum bc people are relying on him. so that’s something.
> i was going to say that i don’t really see why he would claim his trope and not his power given the possible presence of a trope killer, but actually i don’t think there is one? they would’ve had plenty of chances to act by now. i dont think that’s why rnp felt comfortable divulging his trope, i still find that odd tbh but maybe he wasn’t alert to the potential of a trope killer—anyway, just. thoughts.


oh yeah, I forget that rnp usually plays a little like this, but less blatantly, but we also did piss him off with the length of the thread. in any case, still vig fodder at worst



kyeugh said:


> yall touched on flora and i just want to chip in my two cents, tbh i don’t really get scum vibes yeah. like... they do have stuff going on irl but also they’re a pretty quiet player in games that don’t have 3000000 posts so eh this is basically the level of activity i would expect from town flora
> i think if they were scum their teammates might issue them to post more if anything given the trend of falling back on inactives
> i don’t like this tbh


neah, I'm p sure flora plays like this regardless of alignment, which doesn't help us determine anything but also, well, I do feel perfectly inclined to give them a break at the moment, leas of all when they're not the only possible inactive lynch atm



kyeugh said:


> agree with this. i get weird vibes from the fact that everyone kind of dropped the discussion of the only new information we got overnight bc they settled on some lukewarm idea of what his role might have been, and then got right back into pushing on random inactives. i really feel like a wolf might have been steering the narrative there honestly. weird vibes.


I do have to say that distracting from mechspec is like the opposite of what's thus far gotten people suspected-



kokorico said:


> Agree with kyeugh that it's probably worth thinking more about what "A God Am I" means. What do people think of Dreaming God (basically a Jack of All Trades who only gets hints about what each power does)? It got suggested a few pages back but nobody really seemed to pay attention to it. imo it's just about the only plausible suggestion I've heard so far that allows Boquise to have been bodyguarding someone.


hi, yes, that was me who suggested it! unfortunately, though, dreaming god being the walking jank it is, we're left with relatively little to discuss out of that conclusion. like, I suppose it's possible boq died using some super obtuse power, but I feel like most players, and especially the MU crowd which favors day play a little more than the old-timers here, would likely just steer clear of using night actions they don't understand



kyeugh said:


> it's really hard not to townread someone with a chicken pfp


totally buying that, other bird pfp haver


----------



## IndigoClaudia

guys i am confused and afraid and there are going to be all sorts of shenanigans we don't even know of and Oh, MY GOSH! what has happened?!?!!!!!!


----------



## mewtini

kyeugh said:


> tbf yes it is pretty much classic rnp play to sort of just dick around, and he is basically always read as scum. except actually i think he tries a bit harder when he’s scum bc people are relying on him. so that’s something.


ok! thanks. i wouldn't know stuff like this


kyeugh said:


>


tbh yes


kyeugh said:


> i think if [flora] were scum their teammates might issue them to post more if anything given the trend of falling back on inactives


this was also my thought, and that their posts felt sincere idk


kyeugh said:


> is rari the same person who was looking at people’a forum activity and noting who was in PMs earlier? that + the checking how long people have been registered on tcod thing (??)


yup

though i don't think they were really checking maliciously? it came up when we were talking about seri's random-mafia-assignment comment


kyeugh said:


> i don’t really buy it at all and i think scum leans based on their like four posts is very much grasping at the straws and i dislike how little skepticism there seemed to be about it


i agree. but i think there was less "no skepticism" and more "i guess this is what we're on now"


kyeugh said:


> imo the counterpoint is that it’s not impossible or even implausible that these things all happened to vm, and just dumping the information into chat and then leaving is probably the LEAST schemey/scummy way to deal with it.


yep


kyeugh said:


> which honestly makes me regard stryke more suspiciously than vm


yep


kyeugh said:


> agree with this. i get weird vibes from the fact that everyone kind of dropped the discussion of the only new information we got overnight bc they settled on some lukewarm idea of what his role might have been, and then got right back into pushing on random inactives. i really feel like a wolf might have been steering the narrative there honestly. weird vibes.


ftr the pushing on random inactives was still how we got around to stryke, who i feel weird about (i like his variant tierlist but i don't like that vm is there)

but also idk i guess i just didn't read it maliciously when it was conversation coming to a standstill, herbe (who you seem to now be in support of, right?) going "wait don't stop talking" and then putting out an idea he happened to have. i don't think there was anyone pretending it was a Good Idea, but i'm biased because i deadass didn't know what to make of boq and was kind of uncomfortable talking about it without others (who had more of an idea about it) around to buffer


----------



## Novae

whats a bird


----------



## kyeugh

M&F said:


> I do have to say that distracting from mechspec is like the opposite of what's thus far gotten people suspected-


it’s not really the mechspec so much as just, deciding he was Probably This and then just moving away from everything boq or boq-adjacent
like the speed at which it seems everyone collected decided there probably wasnt anything more worth reading into from the death is just weird imo. i want to come back around to it but need to be less busy before i start making any actually substantive posts


----------



## mewtini

M&F said:


> the things that stand out to me from the numbers alone are that mewtini cast the first vote


i was about to be like. MF. but. it wasn't - random - D:

and then i read your next paragraph and exhaled slowly. baby's first hammer tbh. :(


M&F said:


> like, I agree that the mob didn't _have_ to take a stance on this one, but getting innocents lynched is 1+ and blending in is useful, so I do feel that it's useful to scrutinize, even if we get nothing out of it but more "HMMMMMMMMMMM"


----------



## rari_teh

kokorico said:


> And rari, do you have any idea what it is that's giving you "weird vibes" about him? anything might be helpful even if not concrete, but "something fishy" is unfortunately not a lot to go on :P


That’s exactly why I didn’t want to say who it was lol, I don’t have anything quite solid

A few comments…

His reaction to VM’s jokeclaim sounded especially seedy considering a) three hours had passed since the “claim” and b) he quoted post-Seshas-reactions comments on the very same post, meaning that he probably did catch up and had time to think (but then again the mafia chat must’ve been especially paranoid overall in the case he’s mafia)
Some of his reads in these posts struck me as very odd at the time (i.e. casting mild suspicion on kyeugh and patting Keldeo’s head), yet I no longer suspect of Keldeo and I do admit that reading people over their reads isn’t ideal, so yeah, this is a flimsy talking point
I can’t help but find questionable how ILS’s lynch train didn’t have much traction until Keldeo, Mawile and Negrek voted him within the span of _less than three minutes_, all without much reasoning (although Keldeo moved his vote right after to Otter, yet later in the eod moved back to ILS). Makes me wonder whether this could be indicative of people combining votes on wolfchat, but then again that all could be a coincidence and I don’t feel like there are other reasons to distrust Negrek and Keldeo
So yeah, flimsy flimsy. Now you see why I didn’t want to name my suspicion…


----------



## Mawile

For what it's worth, I haven't slept well in several days! So you're getting a sleepy Mawile post instead of whatever it is I usually post. And I'm probably just going to dig myself further into a hole by posting since people are already suspicious of me :x



kokorico said:


> Like ILS and Otter, he initially didn't seem to recognise VM's omniscienceclaim as a joke.


I took it at face value. I take everyone's claims at face value and assume them to be true unless stated otherwise, because any other way of playing doesn't really make sense to me? I'm bad at reading tone online (and in person), so my best way of gathering information/forming opinions is to just assume that what everyone claims to be is true and then work off of that. If we're being completely honest: I'm not sure what I can do to convince people to not be suspicious of me?



kokorico said:


> not sure how to read this tbh. Like, there's not a lot of mechanically useful content, admittedly, but that could just be overwhelmedness, and what there is doesn't seem 100% recycled from the rest of town.


I am overwhelmed! The thread is long and people know how to analyze each other way better than I do, and people are able to phrase their thoughts in a much better way than I can.



kokorico said:


> Have any of y'all played with him much? Is this shitpost ratio normal?


I haven't played a game of mafia since 2016 at the latest (I can't find the last mafia game I actually participated in, and the last one I ran was in 2016, so I'm just going by that). For what it's worth, I spend a fair amount of time (when I'm actually online) reading the thread and typing up a post and then I get cold feet because I get worried that it sounds too much like someone else's post and then people will be even more suspicious of me. And then I delete the post and usually post a meme instead :x



M&F said:


> and that Herbe, Mawile and Negrek were parked on ILS. now, I have a clear on Negrek (or do I) and don't offhead have other reasons to be suspicious of Herbe, but hey, look which currently-under-scrutinity player shows up here!


I understand that I'm just digging myself further into a hole here, but I do have classes and can't be online all the time, so I set down a vote that I felt made sense (in my context of RNP vs ILS) and then went to class, logged back on right at 5 for the end of day and freaked out about Ottercopter along with everyone else.


----------



## mewtini

ftr: i am interested in boq spec if we can swing back around to that? (but i know kyeugh asked for who it was, dw)



rari_teh said:


> Now you see why I didn’t want to name my suspicion…


i kinda don't really get this because by my count like 3 of us have named mawile (at least kyeugh and i both did earlier, i think eifie? and someone else maybe i dont recall). which is to say, i wouldn't beat yourself up about bringing this up. mawile suspicion is one of the less out-there speculations i think you could have



rari_teh said:


> His reaction to VM’s jokeclaim sounded especially seedy considering a) three hours had passed since the “claim” and b) he quoted post-Seshas-reactions comments on the very same post, meaning that he probably did catch up and had time to think (but then again the mafia chat must’ve been especially paranoid overall in the case he’s mafia)


i feel bad for hammering this because i think everyone's sick of diving into people's reactions to this claim, but this is kinda what weirded me out. i said this earlier but the only scenario in which someone didn't see the jokeclaim as a joke is one where they posted without reading anything, which hasn't been consistent w mawile and doesn't seem to hold in that post either


rari_teh said:


> I can’t help but find questionable how ILS’s lynch train didn’t have much traction until Keldeo, Mawile and Negrek voted him within the span of _less than three minutes_, all without much reasoning (although Keldeo moved his vote right after to Otter, yet later in the eod moved back to ILS). Makes me wonder whether this could be indicative of people combining votes on wolfchat,


kinda don't like this

they weren't votecombining, i still thought keldeo felt somehow weird about neg's vote (or something happened; keldeo and negrek's votes were pretty clearly unaligned with each other lol) and i don't know if this makes sense either anyway?


----------



## mewtini

and then mawile immediately posts above me and now i feel bad F. reading


----------



## mewtini

Mawile said:


> I understand that I'm just digging myself further into a hole here, but I do have classes and can't be online all the time, so I set down a vote that I felt made sense (in my context of RNP vs ILS) and then went to class, logged back on right at 5 for the end of day and freaked out about Ottercopter along with everyone else.


i'll get back to the rest of this but i'm fine with this paragraph tbh. as someone who also has pacific-time classes i empathize


----------



## rari_teh

Mawile said:


> And I'm probably just going to dig myself further into a hole by posting since people are already suspicious of me :x


No, on the contrary! If you’re indeed innocent, it is exactly by explaining that you’re (hopefully) going to convince us of the truth.


mewtini said:


> i kinda don't really get this because by my count like 3 of us have named mawile (at least kyeugh and i both did earlier, i think eifie? and someone else maybe i dont recall). which is to say, i wouldn't beat yourself up about bringing this up. mawile suspicion is one of the less out-there speculations i think you could have


Those other times people cast suspicion on Mawile, they were more like offhand commentary rather than talking point proposals. The thread ain’t as active as it was at D1’s peak, pretty much anything you say here will become the talking point for a while


----------



## Eifie

I think mewtini just thinks everyone sounds sincere :p


----------



## mewtini

Eifie said:


> I think mewtini just thinks everyone sounds sincere :p


shit. you got me. (just ftr i'm not sure on mawile still, but i think his EoD makes sense)


----------



## rari_teh

@Eifie, if I may ask, what are your opinions on Mawile?


----------



## mewtini

Eifie said:


> I think mewtini just thinks everyone sounds sincere :p


in a less-meme response, i think it's that i think people sound sincere like 65% of the time and i don't really voice the remaining 35%


----------



## kyeugh

rari_teh said:


> @Eifie, if I may ask, what are your opinions on Mawile?


good mon, better mega, sendieren das tweetung


----------



## kyeugh

mewtini said:


> in a less-meme response, i think it's that i think people sound sincere like 65% of the time and i don't really voice the remaining 35%


GOTTA TELL YUO THE TRUTH MFER. IF YOUR NOT POSTING 100 % OF THE TIME. YOU R HURTIGN TOWN. AROOOOOO


----------



## Herbe

hello I just caught up and I have schoolwork to get to but I'm just gonna go ahead and *unvote* bc tbf my idea kinda already ran its course. might come vibe after i finish my work


----------



## mewtini

kyeugh said:


> GOTTA TELL YUO THE TRUTH MFER. IF YOUR NOT POSTING 100 % OF THE TIME. YOU R HURTIGN TOWN. AROOOOOO


sorry im sorry im trying to remove it


----------



## Negrek

Hooo, I thought the day ended in like three hours and I was Afraid, but thankfully it looks like I just got my days mixed up again. Posting to say I'll be back tonight to actually play a bit again.


----------



## Eifie

rari_teh said:


> @Eifie, if I may ask, what are your opinions on Mawile?


Basically completely null. Anything that may have moved the needle for me at any point has just faded by now.

Probably needs more scrutiny just because the nulls are where lots of mafia hang out, but god I'm so bad at suspecting my friends. Like literally almost any time someone posts anything my response is "okay you can be town"


----------



## rari_teh

Ok, the discussion seems to have stalled off and there are still 30 minutes until my stupid-late lunch arrives, so I’ll resort to posting cat memes


----------



## mewtini

i'm going to return (and maybe look at boq stuff when i do) in a couple hrs after i take my midterm. fingers crossed that i don't come back to 15 pages to quickly read


----------



## rari_teh

mewtini said:


> i'm going to return (and maybe look at boq stuff when i do) in a couple hrs after i take my midterm. fingers crossed that i don't come back to 15 pages to quickly read


Good luck with your midterm! =) See ya ’round


----------



## Eifie

mewtini said:


> i'm going to return (and maybe look at boq stuff when i do) in a couple hrs after i take my midterm. fingers crossed that i don't come back to 15 pages to quickly read


quick someone claim something spicy


----------



## Herbe

Eifie said:


> quick someone claim something spicy


i'm Clown Terrorist
I can pie someone in the face during the day but only once
they can't speak for the rest of the game (because they're busy w their pie snack)


----------



## Eifie

Herbe said:


> i'm Clown Terrorist
> I can pie someone in the face during the day but only once
> they can't speak for the rest of the game (because they're busy w their pie snack)


oh my god please pick me


----------



## kyeugh

gl mewtini!!
on mafia.gg there’s a role that forces its target to claim their role like “I am Cop” and people used to press me when i said shit like “I am Monky”


----------



## Novae

Eifie said:


> quick someone claim something spicy


hardclaim something spicy


----------



## Eifie

Mist1422 said:


> hardclaim something spicy


rly tho mist can you like give thoughts on the 3 people you said you could read


----------



## Eifie

Mist1422 said:


> ugh how do you iso people on this forum


@Mist1422

so hey who did you wanna ISO anyway. you never really said anything after this that indicated who you were looking at


----------



## Novae

I already established pretty early on that Seshas was town and I'm still sticking to that
I think you're town for pushing the gamestate forwards and someone (I think it was actually you) had a take on Keldeo being town that I agreed with
I'll meta panini soon:tm:


----------



## Novae

Eifie said:


> @Mist1422
> 
> so hey who did you wanna ISO anyway. you never really said anything after this that indicated who you were looking at


I don't actually remember lemme check


----------



## Novae

Oh I remembered it was rari

They liked one of my posts and I was like "hey I don't actually remember any of this person's posting lemme see if I can ISO them"

I did not have a conclusion worth sharing


----------



## Eifie

what do you think about EoD1 mist tbh


----------



## Novae

I haven't read any of it tbh

and I'm having trouble caring about this game at all tbh


----------



## Herbe

Mist1422 said:


> and I'm having trouble caring about this game at all tbh


how come? :'(


----------



## mewtini

Herbe said:


> i'm Clown Terrorist
> I can pie someone in the face during the day but only once
> they can't speak for the rest of the game (because they're busy w their pie snack)


is this true ... ? this seems kind of crazy, idk

i am back :D


----------



## Herbe

mewtini said:


> is this true ... ? this seems kind of crazy, idk


yes but I have to use a night action to bake the pie first so I can't prove it today :///

(/s)


----------



## Eifie

idk man what if I attempt to inject some spice by voting *Mawile* without any reason besides "he's managed to stay completely null to seemingly most of the people talking despite having a decent amount of posts"

I am also not thrilled (i.e. lowkey suspicious) with the people who were saying there were too many posts for them as an excuse to not post and who are continuing to not post despite the fact that the rate of posting has slowed down considerably today. can't even remember who they are but they're probably the amorphous blob of inactives that nobody wants to waste a lynch on and instead wait for them to be conveniently dealt with somehow in the future

so I guess I'd vote serimachi too


----------



## Eifie

by the way people not posting because they haven't read should know that you really really really don't need to read every post to be in the thread! read back a couple of pages from where you are maybe and then just post and talk to someone in real-time. I find that the most revealing thing about people anyway because it's not that hard for mafia to write a long and good-sounding post and then drop it into the thread and leave instead of having to interact with the context around it right away


----------



## Herbe

well, I have better vibes about mawile than I do about serimachi, so just for the sake of there being competition, I'll revote *serimachi*
was hoping they'd at least show up to say something??? after the tag and vote??? but nothing so ehm.


----------



## Herbe

(@mewtini bby you know I'm kidding about clown terrorism? Not to say that clown terrorism is anything less than serious irl but im not one lmao)


----------



## rari_teh

Eifie said:


> quick someone claim something spicy


Well isn’t that just perfect? I’m a Spices Salesman! Every night I pick somebody to send peppers, and the next day they have to claim something as absurd as possible within the realm of possibility

I picked Vipera Magnifica on both nights just for the lulz


----------



## mewtini

yall whats going on

are we memeing again

tbt to when i said i'd engage in actual analysis and i instead stared at a wall for 20 minutes


----------



## Eifie

mewtini said:


> yall whats going on
> 
> are we memeing again
> 
> tbt to when i said i'd engage in actual analysis and i instead stared at a wall for 20 minutes


the sadness when I meme so much that mewt thinks my actually serious post and vote are memes


----------



## mewtini

Eifie said:


> the sadness when I meme so much that mewt thinks my actually serious post and vote are memes


eifie don't even worry. we are in #sync (*NSYNC, even). i got your post, i was mostly responding to the rest ;)


----------



## mewtini

just kidding idk what's happening almost ever but i didn't read your post as _entirely_ memed, so that's something


----------



## mewtini

Herbe said:


> (@mewtini bby you know I'm kidding about clown terrorism? Not to say that clown terrorism is anything less than serious irl but im not one lmao)


ah, herbe. my sweet lad. pursue clown terrorism all that you want. anyone can be anything in this world as long as they set their mind to it <3


----------



## Negrek

kyeugh said:


> i was going to say that i don’t really see why he would claim his trope and not his power given the possible presence of a trope killer, but actually i don’t think there is one? they would’ve had plenty of chances to act by now.


At least in the last game, the trope killer appeared to have some kind of restriction on when/how often they could use their power. They didn't kill anybody for the first couple nights there, either (and then three in one night!).

Mmm, I'm not really feeling the Mawile suspicion. He hasn't made much of an impression on me one way or another, and no one appears to have anything much concrete to say about him, just general bad vibes?

I've been thinking about Boquise getting killed last night. I'm wondering whether it might mean that there's at least one person who plays on MU among the Mafia. Given how many there are in the game, that wouldn't exactly be a surprise, but that's what makes the most sense to me... If Boquise has a reputation as someone that's scary to play against and there aren't a lot of great targets, it seems reasonable that someone familiar with his reputation would want to get rid of him early. Since he also hadn't done much in the game, his death is also one that doesn't give us a lot to work with, and could sow a bit of confusion... Whether that was the intent or not, I think it's definitely done as much! I'm not totally sure who all is in the know about the MU metagame, but my guess is something like... Eifie, Panini, Keldeo, Mist1422? That's actually fewer than I was expecting; there are a lot of new faces in the game, and I don't know how many are coming from MU versus other environments/not actually having played at all.

Of course, it could be a misdirect/bodyguard kill/completely random, but if Boquise is indeed a feared player, I think it  also have been very strategic. Especially if you could turn around and try to turn his scant post history this game into implicating another player. (I say this, and then I do a search and it's eight FUCKING pages of posts, this fucking game.) Anyway, his biggest pushes were against Panini and Keldeo, but neither of them was super strong, and I think if either of them were mafia they wouldn't agree to go after Boquise to shut him up just over that. Like, that is an EXCELLENT way to get people going, "Hmm, that poor dearly departed Boquise, perhaps he had to die because he _knew too much_," and I don't think either Panini or Keldeo is that bad at Mafia. I'd be more suspicious of the people pointing their fingers at Keldeo over his death, which would be Eifie and mewtini. (re: post #1567, fight me tbh)

The other thing I wanted to do was review the EoD votes from yesterday, buuuut it's almost 4AM, so perhaps I will not just at the moment.


----------



## Eifie




----------



## Eifie

Keldeo please when are you going to talk


----------



## kyeugh

Negrek said:


> Anyway, his biggest pushes were against Panini and Keldeo, but neither of them was super strong, and I think if either of them were mafia they wouldn't agree to go after Boquise to shut him up just over that. Like, that is an EXCELLENT way to get people going, "Hmm, that poor dearly departed Boquise, perhaps he had to die because he _knew too much_," and I don't think either Panini or Keldeo is that bad at Mafia. I'd be more suspicious of the people pointing their fingers at Keldeo over his death, which would be Eifie and mewtini.


i don't really get this.  you just spent time saying that you think it's likely an MU player shut down boq early because they saw him as a threat.  why is him openly casting suspicion on one of the players you named as a suspect for that reason not as compelling a motive a some notion that boq is good at the game?  i don't think killing people who suspect you, especially when the suspicion they're casting is light, means you're incompetent scum.  it gets the job done and clearly there's no way to tell if that was the true intent behind the kill.


----------



## Eifie

kinda just posting for posterity or something that Panini and M&F today have both felt kind of like "I'm gonna post some stuff to get the heat off me and then stop when it is"


----------



## kyeugh

eifie what do you think if either one of them flips scum


----------



## Eifie

kyeugh said:


> eifie what do you think if either one of them flips scum


I think I will dab obnoxiously all over the thread

also I looked back a bit and M&F did post once yesterday afternoon which I forgot about. idk whether that fits under my description because idk how high to make my expectations


----------



## kyeugh

Eifie said:


> I think I will dab obnoxiously all over the thread


ok i guess i will not vote them then.  i do not want to be the pallbearer of this grim future


----------



## Eifie

Eifie said:


> also I looked back a bit and M&F did post once yesterday afternoon which I forgot about. idk whether that fits under my description because idk how high to make my expectations


I should also add that we're literally never going to know because "I didn't feel like playing mafia last night" is 100% valid

so at some point I have to make a decision on what I think is the most likely scenario I guess

but what's probably actually going to happen is the second there is a vote on M&F or Panini I will immediately get cold feet


----------



## Eifie

I miss boq :( I need him for this shit smh without boq I am merely one useless half of the best hydra on MU 2019 smh @Boquise


----------



## IndigoClaudia

Eifie said:


> I miss boq :(


wait did he DIE!?????!!!!!!?!?! DID WE LYNCH HIM WHY ISN'T HE HERE WHAT DID I MISS?


----------



## IndigoClaudia

guys we got to 2k posts here that's intense


----------



## rari_teh

IndigoEmmy said:


> wait did he DIE!?????!!!!!!?!?! DID WE LYNCH HIM WHY ISN'T HE HERE WHAT DID I MISS?


He was offed during the night :'(


----------



## IndigoClaudia

offed? i don't get it i'm a n00b...


----------



## kyeugh

IndigoEmmy said:


> offed? i don't get it i'm a n00b...


----------



## IndigoClaudia

kyeugh said:


> View attachment 411


A picture says a thousand words and i still don't get it.


----------



## Butterfree

The mafia can kill someone every night (as well as potentially other powers); last night (the second night of the game), Boquise was killed.


----------



## IndigoClaudia

oh that's what i thought but i wasn't sure. I do know the mafia kills people but i wasn't sure the meaning of the term "offed"


----------



## rari_teh

IndigoEmmy said:


> offed? i don't get it i'm a n00b...


Murdered :(


----------



## rari_teh

Leave it to me to answer to a hour-old question without refreshing the page first to see if it has been answered lol


----------



## IndigoClaudia

...I figured as much...


----------



## rari_teh

IndigoEmmy said:


> A picture says a thousand words and i still don't get it.


Read this article and you shall understand


----------



## kyeugh

its not that deep tbh i just like the monky pic


----------



## M&F

rari_teh said:


> I can’t help but find questionable how ILS’s lynch train didn’t have much traction until Keldeo, Mawile and Negrek voted him within the span of _less than three minutes_, all without much reasoning (although Keldeo moved his vote right after to Otter, yet later in the eod moved back to ILS). Makes me wonder whether this could be indicative of people combining votes on wolfchat, but then again that all could be a coincidence and I don’t feel like there are other reasons to distrust Negrek and Keldeo


aha, that page is a very useful one; thanks for plugging it!

I really do not like the look of Keldeo back there, kickstarting the train and then disavowing it. Mawile's casual bandwagon hop isn't the best look I've seen either. Negrek, at least, I recall having been speculating on ILS a stark ways before contributing a vote, that and I have her clear so.

hmmmmmmmm... I'm totally open to lynching Mawile today, especially if it's what it takes to get some lynching done in this day, but I'd like to see what happens if I press *Keldeo*.



kyeugh said:


> good mon, better mega, sendieren das tweetung


was? don't make me googletranslatieren you



kyeugh said:


> GOTTA TELL YUO THE TRUTH MFER. IF YOUR NOT POSTING 100 % OF THE TIME. YOU R HURTIGN TOWN. AROOOOOO


hey, leave me out of this



Negrek said:


> At least in the last game, the trope killer appeared to have some kind of restriction on when/how often they could use their power. They didn't kill anybody for the first couple nights there, either (and then three in one night!).


yeah, I was thinking the same thing -- either that, or an extant trope killer wouldn't want to immediately go executing the first person to claim a trope, because that'd just tip their hand right away. more advantageous, albeit a little risky, to let more people feel safe in doing so



Negrek said:


> I've been thinking about Boquise getting killed last night. I'm wondering whether it might mean that there's at least one person who plays on MU among the Mafia. Given how many there are in the game, that wouldn't exactly be a surprise, but that's what makes the most sense to me... If Boquise has a reputation as someone that's scary to play against and there aren't a lot of great targets, it seems reasonable that someone familiar with his reputation would want to get rid of him early. Since he also hadn't done much in the game, his death is also one that doesn't give us a lot to work with, and could sow a bit of confusion... Whether that was the intent or not, I think it's definitely done as much! I'm not totally sure who all is in the know about the MU metagame, but my guess is something like... Eifie, Panini, Keldeo, Mist1422? That's actually fewer than I was expecting; there are a lot of new faces in the game, and I don't know how many are coming from MU versus other environments/not actually having played at all.


eh. I feel like most of the MU regulars have been reacting to this like "what? boq? seriously?"; if anything, I feel like it might indicate non-MU regulars in the mob, especially since they figured to doctor-dodge, which is a lot more of an aspect of TCoD mafia play than it seems to be for MU. it's a reeeeeally tenuous thread though, especially considering that the mob is a group which can freely communicate, and there's every reason to expect at least one MU regular and at least one person more accostumed to the local meta (or even, in fact, someone who is both of those things at once); just so long as that's the case, ideas will flow freely between each playstyle

I also wouldn't discredit, or even consider it bad play, for them to have offed boq so as to not let tenuous FoSing develop into something worse, as much as that potentially implicates myself. if they think anything like Eifie does, that's more likely to be the cause than deliberate chaos-stirring, even

(also, ftr, Negrek, today I've been piling up quotes from boq in the previous day; might help you orient your speculation easier)



Eifie said:


> I should also add that we're literally never going to know because "I didn't feel like playing mafia last night" is 100% valid


sometimes a girl has to spend the half of an entire day playing civilization VI against herself-

at the risk of more "Eifie and MF debate meta-mafia", I do have to say I feel like the whole real-time-engagement expectation sounds a lot more like it belongs in MU than it does on a stage where mafia is a sideshow and has historically been played mostly at pretty slow paces (starting with the 72-hour phase standard, which I'd have to expect is longer than the usual mafia phase in a dedicated mafia forum). I realize that it's more helpful to be on the ball, but such things as taking your time, writing longer posts, and going longer than 2 hours without checking the thread are really a lot less alignment-indicative than the MU players are taking it to be, including the late boq



IndigoEmmy said:


> oh that's what i thought but i wasn't sure. I do know the mafia kills people but i wasn't sure the meaning of the term "offed"


don't make me _on_ you, pal-


----------



## IndigoClaudia

M&F said:


> don't make me _on_ you, pal-


Oh no what does On mean?


----------



## M&F

IndigoEmmy said:


> Oh no what does On mean?


you don't want to know that


----------



## IndigoClaudia

Oh no they're referencing tropes and scaring me simultaneously!!!


----------



## IndigoClaudia

wait... 
_I'll ON YOU!_ WHO'S SCARED NOW!?


----------



## rari_teh

Ooooh, melikes longpost!



M&F said:


> I really do not like the look of Keldeo back there, kickstarting the train and then disavowing it.


I think he was genuine when he said he wanted to keep both wagons balanced, but I might be taking him for granted.

Speaking of wagons, it’s less than eight hours ’til eod and all people who have been voted up to this point are clocking at a single vote if my count is right. Despite still not being 100% comfortable with it, I’m placing my vote on *Mawile* for the time being (sorry :c)


----------



## IndigoClaudia

actually very suspicious too and i wanna get into the action (of lynching people). Sorry, *Mawile*, but something just seems off about you.


----------



## Eifie

oh yeah I keep forgetting to ask this

hey @Panini can you tell me more about the thing where you were like "Keldeo isn't asking questions to the point of excess so I don't think he's mafia right now"? because like a) people have been suspecting Keldeo right now for how many questions he asks, and b) Keldeo asks five gazillion questions as town and is constantly wrongly suspected for it so I don't even get where this would come from. it was also extremely throwaway for someone that I would expect you to be much more careful trying to read especially given the last invitational


----------



## rari_teh

IndigoEmmy said:


> i wanna get into the action (of lynching people)


yikes o.o /s


----------



## IndigoClaudia

Keldeo is also suspicious...


----------



## Eifie

M&F said:


> at the risk of more "Eifie and MF debate meta-mafia", I do have to say I feel like the whole real-time-engagement expectation sounds a lot more like it belongs in MU than it does on a stage where mafia is a sideshow and has historically been played mostly at pretty slow paces (starting with the 72-hour phase standard, which I'd have to expect is longer than the usual mafia phase in a dedicated mafia forum). I realize that it's more helpful to be on the ball, but such things as taking your time, writing longer posts, and going longer than 2 hours without checking the thread are really a lot less alignment-indicative than the MU players are taking it to be, including the late boq


aside from the fact that you're literally quoting me saying that we'll never be able to tell, the point was that you and Panini both responded to being suspected with a sudden surge of activity that then died down. I'm comparing you to yourself earlier in the game, not to some other standard


----------



## Eifie

Keldeo has been mislynched in like 5 of the last 7 town games he's played or something. poor guy.


----------



## IndigoClaudia

then lets take pity and not lynch him.


----------



## rari_teh

Eifie said:


> oh yeah I keep forgetting to ask this
> 
> hey @Panini can you tell me more about the thing where you were like "Keldeo isn't asking questions to the point of excess so I don't think he's mafia right now"? because like a) people have been suspecting Keldeo right now for how many questions he asks, and b) Keldeo asks five gazillion questions as town and is constantly wrongly suspected for it so I don't even get where this would come from. it was also extremely throwaway for someone that I would expect you to be much more careful trying to read especially given the last invitational





IndigoEmmy said:


> Keldeo is also suspicious...


I might be being very naïve, but I no longer subscribe to the idea that Keldeo is mafia. I see his constant questioning as trying to be helpful and pushing the conversation forward – the only thing that I think I could see as suspicious is that, while he presses people up and down for their thoughts, he doesn’t actually give many thoughts of his own… Still, he ain’t in my sus list for now


----------



## Eifie

Eifie said:


> aside from the fact that you're literally quoting me saying that we'll never be able to tell, the point was that you and Panini both responded to being suspected with a sudden surge of activity that then died down. I'm comparing you to yourself earlier in the game, not to some other standard


also I think it applies a lot more to Panini... maybe I'd vote her again. I kept forgetting to ask her about Keldeo but now that I've written it out it's bothering me a lot


----------



## kyeugh

how do you expect keldeo would be asking if he were scum?


----------



## kyeugh

kyeugh said:


> how do you expect keldeo would be asking if he were scum?


* acting


----------



## Eifie

kyeugh said:


> how do you expect keldeo would be asking if he were scum?


Is that a question for me? If so I wouldn't be looking at the questions, I would be looking for the Very Deep Thoughts that I've talked about a couple times now

and tbqh, I would be checking if his behaviour actually lines up with someone who has no idea what the fuck is going on


----------



## rari_teh

I miss @Seshas’ thoughts and insights. Any words on the current wagons? (Mawile, Panini, Keldeo, serimachi)


----------



## rari_teh

rari_teh said:


> I miss @Seshas’ thoughts and insights. Any words on the current wagons? (Mawile, Panini, Keldeo, serimachi)


Xenforo didn’t tag because of the apostrophe >:(
@Seshas


----------



## mewtini

ok i had a full ass dream about this game

still unable to play seriously for a few hours (sorry) but i skimmed, why are we votetraining right now lol

might be able to make a post in a bit tho. and will then reappear after class


----------



## IndigoClaudia

I don't reappear after class i'm IN CLASS. Like right now.


----------



## Novae

I am back

Let me ISO Mawile


----------



## Panini

Eifie said:


> also I think it applies a lot more to Panini... maybe I'd vote her again. I kept forgetting to ask her about Keldeo but now that I've written it out it's bothering me a lot


honestly I don't really want to get into my personal circumstances right now and I think it would be detrimental for me to go back into making excuses for my time, so I'm just going to tell you instead that the slot I have for interacting with the thread is a couple hours before bed and last night I chose not to do that. Sorry.



Spoiler



Also honestly I wasn't expecting this to be nearly as mash like as it is so, there's that



Frankly I was hoping the extra effort I put into writing a wall would give you a good idea of where my head is at and that that would be equivalent to reflecting what I would normally say in pieced out thoughts throughout the day just in like, one chunk. Also I don't think think it's fair to pick this reasoning out about me and M&F as though it means we're sweating from your pressure when it seems like thread was kind of quiet yesterday and this is a read you could make just as easily about like Stryke/Mist/Serimachi off the top of my head


----------



## RedneckPhoenix

gonna stop complaining about the pagecount cuz you all know what you did. 

i'm suspicious of emmy but that just be because there was kind of a random defense of keldeo for no reason there. might be a mafia duo idk


----------



## Novae

Mawile said:


> And I'm probably just going to dig myself further into a hole by posting since people are already suspicious of me :x


I kinda wanna say this line alone makes Mawile likely town?

@Mawile how experienced of a mafia player are you? (mafia the game, not the alignment)


----------



## Eifie

Panini said:


> Also I don't think think it's fair to pick this reasoning out about me and M&F as though it means we're sweating from your pressure when it seems like thread was kind of quiet yesterday and this is a read you could make just as easily about like Stryke/Mist/Serimachi off the top of my head


at some point seemingly most of the active posters had you two in their scum leans and when you showed up and made a few big posts that all disappeared so yeah it looks pretty   to me

I already said that there's zero way to tell if someone stops posting because they have irl or just don't feel like playing or if they just feel like the heat is off them now but I can't just ignore everything that raises my eyebrows because of that


----------



## Panini

Eifie said:


> oh yeah I keep forgetting to ask this
> 
> hey @Panini can you tell me more about the thing where you were like "Keldeo isn't asking questions to the point of excess so I don't think he's mafia right now"? because like a) people have been suspecting Keldeo right now for how many questions he asks, and b) Keldeo asks five gazillion questions as town and is constantly wrongly suspected for it so I don't even get where this would come from. it was also extremely throwaway for someone that I would expect you to be much more careful trying to read especially given the last invitational


Maybe I need to take a closer look to re-evaluate how much he fits what I have thought up as his town mould vs his scum mould but 
I think Keldeo tends to make a lot of questions as either alignment - what I was more getting at is that those are more performative when he's scum and he cares about the answers considerably less. It's like filler that looks investigative but ultimately doesn't reveal a lot where as I think if the things he's asking about he seems to be more genuinely motivated to know that's a better look for him? 
It's hard to verbalise and it's going to sound kind of dumb to put it this way but I got what you mean by "RPing Newcomb" lol and I think there's a grain of truth to that.

Also Keldeo handing my ass to me last invitational doesn't really make me more likely to catch him this early so I'm not going to deny I don't feel that committal about it and probably won't until we have some flips and interactions to look at. Until then I'm just making my best stab at vibes and holding him at arms length until we get to that point - that's the whole reason the paranoia section is the paranoia section


----------



## Mawile

Mist1422 said:


> @Mawile how experienced of a mafia player are you? (mafia the game, not the alignment)


I can't find all the games I participated in on TCoD, but it probably wasn't a whole lot and they were all pre-2015. If anything, I have more experience running games than I do actually playing. If I remember correctly, in at least a few of the games I played back then, I would usually say something that wasn't thought out well and then would get lynched for it. So I guess the pattern might end up continuing, haha.


----------



## Eifie

Panini said:


> Maybe I need to take a closer look to re-evaluate how much he fits what I have thought up as his town mould vs his scum mould but
> I think Keldeo tends to make a lot of questions as either alignment - what I was more getting at is that those are more performative when he's scum and he cares about the answers considerably less. It's like filler that looks investigative but ultimately doesn't reveal a lot where as I think if the things he's asking about he seems to be more genuinely motivated to know that's a better look for him?
> It's hard to verbalise and it's going to sound kind of dumb to put it this way but I got what you mean by "RPing Newcomb" lol and I think there's a grain of truth to that.
> 
> Also Keldeo handing my ass to me last invitational doesn't really make me more likely to catch him this early so I'm not going to deny I don't feel that committal about it and probably won't until we have some flips and interactions to look at. Until then I'm just making my best stab at vibes and holding him at arms length until we get to that point - that's the whole reason the paranoia section is the paranoia section


hmm, okay. are there like particular posts you can point to that you think we're genuinely motivated in this game? or something you can think of off the top of your head?

a lot of people are suspecting him right now, do you have any thoughts on that?


----------



## Butterfree

A vote count, just to keep it straight:



Spoiler: Full vote history



*Keldeo* votes *Ottercopter* (#1488)
*Keldeo* unvotes (#1550)
*Eifie* votes *Panini* (#1577)
*Keldeo* votes *Panini* (#1882)
*Mist1422* votes *Panini* (#1940)
*Herbe* votes *serimachi* (#2001)
*Eifie* unvotes (#2101)
*Keldeo* unvotes (#2131)
*Herbe* unvotes (#2155)
*Eifie* votes *Mawile* (#2177)
*Herbe* votes *serimachi* (#2179)
*M&F* votes *Keldeo* (#2210)
*rari_teh* votes *Mawile* (#2215)
*IndigoEmmy* votes *Mawile* (#2216)





Spoiler: Active votes



*Eifie* votes *Mawile* (#2177)
*Herbe* votes *serimachi* (#2179)
*IndigoEmmy* votes *Mawile* (#2216)
*M&F* votes *Keldeo* (#2210)
*Mist1422* votes *Panini* (#1940)
*rari_teh* votes *Mawile* (#2215)



Vote counts:
*Mawile* (3) (Eifie, IndigoEmmy, rari_teh)
*serimachi* (1) (Herbe)
*Keldeo* (1) (M&F)
*Panini* (1) (Mist1422)
No vote (19) (Mawile, Flora, kyeugh, JackPK, Panini, Ottercopter, I liek Squirtles, Stryke, serimachi, Negrek, RedneckPhoenix, Vipera Magnifica, Mr. Ultracool, Odie_Pie, Seshas, kokorico, Keldeo, mewtini, Boquise)


----------



## IndigoClaudia

really people?


----------



## rari_teh

Panini said:


> Frankly I was hoping the extra effort I put into writing a wall would give you a good idea of where my head is at and that that would be equivalent to reflecting what I would normally say in pieced out thoughts throughout the day just in like, one chunk. Also I don't think think it's fair to pick this reasoning out about me and M&F as though it means we're sweating from your pressure when it seems like thread was kind of quiet yesterday and this is a read you could make just as easily about like Stryke/Mist/Serimachi off the top of my head


For the record: I currently have more doubts over Stryke and Mist than over Panini and MF.


Mawile said:


> If I remember correctly, in at least a few of the games I played back then, I would usually say something that wasn't thought out well and then would get lynched for it.


Aaaand now I’m sad about ILS again :c


----------



## Novae

yeah I think mawile's comment on them not being in a great spot then posting anyway is probably towny if they aren't an experienced player


----------



## Mawile

I mean, there isn't a whole lot I can do, since me not talking gives people bad vibes and me talking also gives people bad vibes.


----------



## IndigoClaudia

Mawile said:


> I mean, there isn't a whole lot I can do, since me not talking gives people bad vibes and me talking also gives people bad vibes.


I apologize for voting to lynch you.


----------



## IndigoClaudia

my vote is still *Mawile *though, so sorry.


----------



## kyeugh

toDay ends in like five hours right


----------



## IndigoClaudia

I'm still voting to lynch you anyway.


----------



## Eifie

Mist1422 said:


> yeah I think mawile's comment on them not being in a great spot then posting anyway is probably towny if they aren't an experienced player


hmm you think so?

who would you vote rn? I guess you're already voting but is that still the vote you want


----------



## Eifie

kyeugh said:


> toDay ends in like five hours right


yeah 4.5 ish


----------



## Herbe

i hate every vote rn lmao, including mine (*unvote*)
i mean yeah keldeo has fallen a bit in my Townthinkylist but i'm not totally behind lynching him
panini has got to be town imo. i know i simp for long thought out posts but fr.
and mawile??? let him vibe,,, idk I just feel uncomfortable lynching him, especially w mist's commentary. 
i'm more inclined to vote stryke, actually, with semi-inactive-butalsobad vibes.


----------



## Herbe

emmy that is the funniest 3 mafia posts in a row i have ever seen
fwiw we don't really take game stuff personal here, so it's fine


----------



## IndigoClaudia

my vote still stands i missed out on the lynching action last time so i want to get involved...
With Destroying the mafia.


----------



## Novae

Eifie said:


> I guess you're already voting but is that still the vote you want


not really?

help


----------



## Eifie

wait, people are actually willing to lynch an inactive?! I wish people had said this earlier before I got distracted by shiny things and now it's a harder decision to make


----------



## Eifie

Mist1422 said:


> not really?
> 
> help


woweek


----------



## IndigoClaudia

hmmm stryke is suspicious but all the vibes are...
oh no.

I SEEM AWFULLY SUSPICIOUS NOW BYE.


----------



## Herbe

Eifie the trains you start for science have taken off both days lmao
otter for science and now mawile


----------



## Herbe

F*** it, it's 4.5 hours till the end of the day, I'll just go ahead and vote *stryke.*
Not married to that vote by any means, but hey.


----------



## Eifie

Herbe said:


> Eifie the trains you start for science have taken off both days lmao
> otter for science and now mawile


Mawile was not really for science

I will almost certainly change my vote later but we still have 4.5 hours


----------



## IndigoClaudia

hmm... i'll go with *stryke* for now but mark my words any-non suspicious behavoir from stryke or suspicious behavoir from mawile and i'm back to mawile.


----------



## Herbe

Eifie said:


> Mawile was not really for science


Fair enough. 
(Sorry if I seem like I'm grumping, I'm having a bad day. Y'all don't deserve my grumps though :((( sorry)


----------



## IndigoClaudia

@Herbe for the record i didn't think you we're grumping.


----------



## Eifie

Herbe said:


> Fair enough.
> (Sorry if I seem like I'm grumping, I'm having a bad day. Y'all don't deserve my grumps though :((( sorry)


aww you don't seem like you're grumping

I'm sure I do because I've had this annoying headache for the past 18 hours or something


----------



## IndigoClaudia

@Eifie i didn't think you were grumping either but headaches suck.


----------



## M&F

Panini said:


> Maybe I need to take a closer look to re-evaluate how much he fits what I have thought up as his town mould vs his scum mould but
> I think Keldeo tends to make a lot of questions as either alignment - what I was more getting at is that those are more performative when he's scum and he cares about the answers considerably less. It's like filler that looks investigative but ultimately doesn't reveal a lot where as I think if the things he's asking about he seems to be more genuinely motivated to know that's a better look for him?
> It's hard to verbalise and it's going to sound kind of dumb to put it this way but I got what you mean by "RPing Newcomb" lol and I think there's a grain of truth to that.
> 
> Also Keldeo handing my ass to me last invitational doesn't really make me more likely to catch him this early so I'm not going to deny I don't feel that committal about it and probably won't until we have some flips and interactions to look at. Until then I'm just making my best stab at vibes and holding him at arms length until we get to that point - that's the whole reason the paranoia section is the paranoia section


thank you so much for putting it into words holy shit

the thing that first started bugging me about Keldeo is that, while asking questions a lot is what he does as town, there's persistently been something off about his approach in this game, and I think that's just it



Herbe said:


> (Sorry if I seem like I'm grumping, I'm having a bad day. Y'all don't deserve my grumps though :((( sorry)


pat pat

anyways, I also accept the Stryke wagon, although I'll only hop on if I deem it necessary


----------



## Stryke

Oh that's an L for me I guess


----------



## Keldeo

Give me a sec to eat something and then I’ll be here. Sorry for not contributing much toDay or following up on stuff, I’ve been really busy and burnt out on mafia.


----------



## Panini

Eifie said:


> at some point seemingly most of the active posters had you two in their scum leans and when you showed up and made a few big posts that all disappeared so yeah it looks pretty   to me
> 
> I already said that there's zero way to tell if someone stops posting because they have irl or just don't feel like playing or if they just feel like the heat is off them now but I can't just ignore everything that raises my eyebrows because of that


Yeah I mean it's fine for you to make the observation and I recognize those two things outwardly look the same. I'm just also not going to go without saying my piece on it.



Eifie said:


> hmm, okay. are there like particular posts you can point to that you think we're genuinely motivated in this game? or something you can think of off the top of your head?
> 
> a lot of people are suspecting him right now, do you have any thoughts on that?


God to answer this properly I'd have to like dig through because it's more of a concurrent thought than something in particular. I guess maybe the most exemplative would be something like Keldeo and mewtini's exchange on page 42? I just think it's a good conversation and I kind of like the blip in Keldeo's kyeugh progression during it



Spoiler






Keldeo said:


> Weirdish feels about kyeugh's push on Seshas, specifically a bit confused about how she connects the ideas of "Seshas is not more likely to be MI than an 'infiltrator' role", "I want Seshas to explain themself more", and "I think Seshas has been hiding some of their information." Maybe it'll click more for me as I keep reading.





Keldeo said:


> Actually, nvm, how kyeugh explained that does make sense to me, if you connect the first/third points and second/third points separately. I guess she was just being a bit indirect about wanting Seshas to explain their info?





Keldeo said:


> Kinda meh on most of my reads tbh, but I have townreads that I feel some amount of good about on like 10 people, and that's fair enough for d1. Eifie, I know you were concerned about townreading people who were posting, but also I feel like high postcount ~= town is somewhat valid for TCoDf d1s, taking into account that this is an atypical TCoDf d1.
> 
> Not being sure about kyeugh's push on Rari is not actually a correct representation of my thoughts. I think I like her overall.






As well as that I think he's forming more questions like: [Question][statement of own opinion before the answer comes]



Keldeo said:


> Oh, Eifie, I definitely don't think kokorico's read on me was opportunistic because e asked the question about whether we were actually masons (indicating that e was trying to get a read on me, imo) way before Rari expressed their suspicion on me. I don't know if having the read itself makes em towny per se, but maybe that buttresses your thoughts?
> 
> Tell me more about why mewtini is pocketing you? I think I'm maybe townreading her too but it's, like, literally all tone and she seems participatory and trying to figure stuff out.





Keldeo said:


> I'll make a big post in like... an hour, I don't want to spam the thread with my responses while catching up.
> 
> Can you refresh me on your Herbe probably town read? I felt like he was more engaged in the early game, which is fine but my vague good feels on him are waning a little. I do like the continuity in his read on Seshas when he pointed it out to kyeugh.


I think these are both pretty weak reasons though tbh and all I could think of off the top? so I guess I can see how others might be interpreting it the opposite way? It's kind of a blurry line to draw because I think the biggest thing is do I think the overall cadence is read-question-read-question or question-question-question-read. And overall I think Keldeo is more genuinely interacting with others than talking to himself so I think the former rather than the latter?  

I'm not that interested in persuing it today but I don't think it's a scummy conclusion to come up with the opposite read on him based on what he's doing is what I'm trying to say


----------



## Keldeo

Panini, you and MF seem to be arriving at opposite conclusions on me based on the same description of my scum game. It would be interesting to see you two talk about that. 

You said you felt neutral on Mawile in your read wall. Have you gotten the chance to reread him?


----------



## Panini

Keldeo said:


> Panini, you and MF seem to be arriving at opposite conclusions on me based on the same description of my scum game. It would be interesting to see you two talk about that.
> 
> You said you felt neutral on Mawile in your read wall. Have you gotten the chance to reread him?


That was next on my to do list. And like yeah, I guess it wasn't clear that I think you embody the more pointed mode than the fillery mode but my thoughts are right up there on that so there's not that much more I think I could provide off the cuff. Maybe I just have a less holistic view and that's why everyone feels like
it's considerably more off than I think it is? The more we talk about it the more I feel uncertain and skimming back through when Eifie asked me to pick out actual examples made me realise there was less I could actually point to than I thought there would be.

Mawile's next on my to do list since that seems to be a big discussion today


----------



## Eifie

Panini: makes post
me, every single time: sorry I'm sorry how could I suspect such a wholesome sandwich I'm trying to remove it

no the joke isn't old yet


----------



## Keldeo

ftr I skimmed the vast majority of toDay and don't think I'll have time to get caught up so I'll be jumping around for a bit. 

I just remembered Mr. Ultracool is a player and I think I'm mentally putting him / serimachi / etc. in a tier like, a little above Odie. Haven't been here today but kinda liked something they did day 1 or something. I think they would be pretty low-info options and wouldn't really want to go for one of them today.



Mawile said:


> I mean, there isn't a whole lot I can do, since me not talking gives people bad vibes and me talking also gives people bad vibes.


I think you should still talk even if you think it'll give people bad vibes! If you're town, not talking doesn't give anyone the chance to reevaluate on you or figure you out.


----------



## rari_teh

I’m really afraid of lynching another townie, but I’m not keen on changing votes at the moment. Depending on the size of the strykewagon I may hop, though.



Herbe said:


> (Sorry if I seem like I'm grumping, I'm having a bad day. Y'all don't deserve my grumps though :((( sorry)


You didn’t come off as grumpy at all for me. I hope your day gets better ^^


Eifie said:


> Panini: makes post
> me, every single time: sorry I'm sorry how could I suspect such a wholesome sandwich I'm trying to remove it
> 
> no the joke isn't old yet


This joke will never get old to me :D


----------



## rari_teh

Keldeo said:


> I think you should still talk even if you think it'll give people bad vibes! If you're town, not talking doesn't give anyone the chance to reevaluate on you or figure you out.


My thoughts exactly!


----------



## Eifie

lynching town is scary but ultimately it's pretty much inevitable in mafia and if we always temper our suspicions because we're scared we'll never get anywhere

trust me pushing Panini and M&F has been very scary for me. it's ok, chase your dreams! or like. whatever.


----------



## Eifie

@Keldeo my read on Panini/M&F is like a sine wave


----------



## Eifie

Eifie said:


> @Keldeo my read on Panini/M&F is like a sine wave


the joke, if anyone cared

my apologies I was supposed to say cosine

(TANGENT!!!)


----------



## Keldeo

Eifie, I'll get on MF thoughts for you, is there anything else you want to bounce around? Also, dogs in mason chat. Also, I didn't realize that was a reference and I was in that game lol.

My strong townreads earlier are all pretty much for appearing solvy and engaged with the thread, attempting to get people to go in useful directions, taking initiative in attempting to sort people - this last one is especially for mewtini, who I remember having this like restless energy around sorting the neutrals. If she's alive late and her hitrate is low I'll reevaluate, but like.

Even if she weren't my mason partner Eifie is blindingly town for meta reasons. I was worried I'd just let her coast off having a blindingly towny d1 when based on her thread presence she might be a target for mafia recruit actions if there are any, but tbh don't get paranoid about her unless like, her activity falls off a cliff and she stops making jokes.

I don't remember what all kyeugh has done today but I remember liking her EOD yesterday, especially if Otter is town. I'm also like totally TRing rari specifically for their comment about their CSV, change my mind.

Seshas and Indigo are more like towny roleclaims d1 and I'll let them coast for it. Indigo has continued to be pure today, tbh.


----------



## Keldeo

Also Eifie, is it a productive avenue for me to try to puzzle out flavor / Am I A God / that stuff, or has that ground been tread? I skimmed most of the talk about that.


----------



## Eifie

Keldeo said:


> Also Eifie, is it a productive avenue for me to try to puzzle out flavor / Am I A God / that stuff, or has that ground been tread? I skimmed most of the talk about that.


um, not sure. I'm personally not very interested but I think qva was and thought it was an important thing for people to be talking about so solely because I trust qva I'm gonna say, like, maybe you could look at it a bit?

also thanks for dogs I'll look later while not pretending to work while having too much of a headache to look at the big screen of code because I didn't want to take the afternoon off and use half a personal day because what if I get sick in December


----------



## Panini

While I am reading Mawile, can I please acquire thoughts on Mist one four two two?

I'm still not jazzed about his play so far and I'm no longer feeling that strong about Stryke so I am Considering


----------



## Eifie

Panini said:


> While I am reading Mawile, can I please acquire thoughts on Mist one four two two?
> 
> I'm still not jazzed about his play so far and I'm no longer feeling that strong about Stryke so I am Considering


I think I would probably be freaking out if my n0 check on him wasn't real, which it like, totally is bruh


----------



## rari_teh

Panini said:


> While I am reading Mawile, can I please acquire thoughts on Mist one four two two?
> 
> I'm still not jazzed about his play so far and I'm no longer feeling that strong about Stryke so I am Considering


Not very good, tbh? I don’t recall him ever giving out his thoughts in more than a couple sentences and he’s been very… absent? Not in a serimachi way, though, more like as if he weren’t really here

If a wagon is carried, I might hop (this is my second time saying this sentence today)


----------



## rari_teh

After a quick ISO, I seem to have recalled it right. All of his posts are short enough to fit in the tiny search preview box.


----------



## Eifie

actually I've realized that it's no longer productive to keep up cover because of a reason

hardclaim that I don't actually have an n0 on Mist, but I do have an actual mech clear on Mr. Ultracool from n1

there is nothing else useful I can tell you so don't ask tbh

I've been getting a bit of deja vu to Mist's behaviour in a previous game I played with him (Keldeo: matrix 9er) where he was basically not posting at all and it was a huge struggle to get people to lynch him. I think I only managed to have faith in myself there because he was posting actively in another game at the same time and then flipped villager there so I could rule out that it was just general disinterest in mafia or some other excuse


----------



## rari_teh




----------



## kyeugh

Eifie said:


> um, not sure. I'm personally not very interested but I think qva was and thought it was an important thing for people to be talking about so solely because I trust qva I'm gonna say, like, maybe you could look at it a bit?


i think i don't reaaaally care about the specifics of his role, if only bc i'm not confident we'll be able to get anything from it, but @Keldeo if you think you can figure something about by reading the page pleeeeeeeease share your thoughts bc that would actually be really nice information
my main reason for bringing it up before though is that i guess people were like "well he was probably just bodyguard" and then like.... moved on?  which i find really weird
like i guess it makes sense not to keep talking about something you don't know how to talk about but i just find that transition of, like, deconstructing new information and then just sliding back into the low information zone esp without really approaching any conclusions from the new information kind of unideal


----------



## Keldeo

Huh. Tell me more about the matrix9 comparison?

I believe Mist when they say they're having trouble caring about the game, which makes me struggle to arrive at actual thoughts on them because no matter their alignment they seem content to just drift along with the thread and not solve or take initiative in pushing anything :v

It's like vaguely towny that they seem to have had background thoughts like their mention of their rari ISO but I'm not putting that past them to be able to fake, so like, .


----------



## Keldeo

That's not a typo, my thought is the equivalent of like quoting their ISO and saying "."


----------



## Eifie

Keldeo said:


> Huh. Tell me more about the matrix9 comparison?
> 
> I believe Mist when they say they're having trouble caring about the game, which makes me struggle to arrive at actual thoughts on them because no matter their alignment they seem content to just drift along with the thread and not solve or take initiative in pushing anything :v
> 
> It's like vaguely towny that they seem to have had background thoughts like their mention of their rari ISO but I'm not putting that past them to be able to fake, so like, .


so the comparison has like lost a lot of merit because of his more recent posts

before those it felt very similar how I constantly had to ping him and drag him into the thread only for him to make few very short posts and not having any throwaway reads like I usually expect from him as town

one difference that I've noticed is that in matrix 9 he would promise content (I think?) and never deliver, while in this game he hasn't been doing so much of the "sorry I'll post content later"

not sure if I was just telling myself that because I didn't want to have a wrong n0


----------



## kyeugh

am i misremembering or was he like this in the invitational too?


----------



## Eifie

kyeugh said:


> am i misremembering or was he like this in the invitational too?


I feel like he gave more unprompted reads there

I did look into that yesterday and came out with very little conclusion smh


----------



## kyeugh

Eifie said:


> one difference that I've noticed is that in matrix 9 he would promise content (I think?) and never deliver, while in this game he hasn't been doing so much of the "sorry I'll post content later"


Sorry.  Im sorry.  Im trying to create it


----------



## Keldeo

Eifie said:


> I feel like he gave more unprompted reads there
> 
> I did look into that yesterday and came out with very little conclusion smh


They did, and they also had that push on RNP that doesn't match the strength of any read here really? Maybe their townread on Seshas or something


----------



## Eifie

I feel like people started talking about Mist earlier so maybe the more recent posts that made me feel different from matrix 9 were the whole "uh-oh heat on me gotta post my way out" thing


----------



## Keldeo

Eifie I kind of want to townread MF for scumreading me...


----------



## kyeugh

mist i think is at the bottom of the list of people i want to vote for right now tbh
like, not the very bottom, but out of the pool of people which i might potentially vote on ig?
i feel like this thread really isn't getting anywhere rn and probably won't before the end of the day so i kind of want to just throw my vote on mawile honestly


----------



## Eifie

people I would vote on rn are like... Mawile serimachi Stryke Mist (maybe) Flora RNP Odie_Pie

I actually think Odie_Pie is pretty likely to be mafia just based on the number of people in the thread that seem so towny


----------



## Herbe

okay after eif's hardclaim I would feel a lot more comfortable switching my vote to mist1422, should that be an actual wagon that happens, so count me in if that happens. 
eif is that list in order or random?


----------



## kyeugh

should we just kill odie so people stop wondering about it tbh


----------



## Eifie

Herbe said:


> okay after eif's hardclaim I would feel a lot more comfortable switching my vote to mist1422, should that be an actual wagon that happens, so count me in if that happens.
> eif is that list in order or random?


it's like somewhat ordered I guess but I only have extremely weak preferences that change by the minute


----------



## Eifie

kyeugh said:


> should we just kill odie so people stop wondering about it tbh


I dunno everyone seems to think it's a waste

I'm just worried that we won't have any actual way of clearing out people we can't read besides the lynch


----------



## rari_teh

kyeugh said:


> should we just kill odie so people stop wondering about it tbh


Odie’s going to die sooner or later. If they’re not mafia, she might even be killed by the mob.


----------



## Keldeo

Am I remembering right that Stryke was suspicious of VM for saying things that attracted attention? That seems genuine in the sense that I don't think anyone is about to hop on VM for those reasons - I don't think Stryke was aiming to like affect anything with that. This read maybe changes if he had more consensus other SRs. Does this make sense at all?

Eifie, talk to me about Mawile's defeatism / thinking that talking more will just dig the hole deeper even when there weren't that many actual votes on him. I feel like it could be from either alignment?


----------



## kyeugh

i feel like we are getting nowhere and odie is like the last truly inactive person aside from flora ig who i think we should leave alone for the time being
i'm kinda here for it tbh


----------



## Eifie

Keldeo re: Mawile I honestly have no idea and I'm just getting some flashbacks to when we chickened out of lynching Goldar in the hydra game because of his defeatism in the few minutes before EoD


----------



## kyeugh

rari_teh said:


> Odie’s going to die sooner or later. If they’re not mafia, she might even be killed by the mob.


why?  if i were scum i would leave odie alive as long as possible because they're doing absolutely nothing to jeopardize a mafia victory


----------



## rari_teh

Keldeo said:


> Am I remembering right that Stryke was suspicious of VM for saying things that attracted attention? That seems genuine in the sense that I don't think anyone is about to hop on VM for those reasons - I don't think Stryke was aiming to like affect anything with that. This read maybe changes if he had more consensus other SRs. Does this make sense at all?


If memory serves right, he wasn’t the only one casting suspicion on VM fwiw


----------



## Keldeo

Also what I like about MF is the fact that she has been wide-ranging in her focus - like, randomly looping in thoughts about other people in addition to talking about me. It's not like super town tier especially because she's wrong on me, but I feel like it's good for now etc. I think it's not alignment-indicative that her early posts were like longposts about flavor.

Also trope links funny


----------



## M&F

cor blimey I keep forgetting I have a _clear_ on Mawile

gonna have to counterbus *Stryke* for now; post of more substance possibly next up


----------



## rari_teh

kyeugh said:


> why?  if i were scum i would leave odie alive as long as possible because they're doing absolutely nothing to jeopardize a mafia victory


Eh, makes sense.


----------



## kyeugh

Keldeo said:


> Am I remembering right that Stryke was suspicious of VM for saying things that attracted attention? That seems genuine in the sense that I don't think anyone is about to hop on VM for those reasons - I don't think Stryke was aiming to like affect anything with that. This read maybe changes if he had more consensus other SRs. Does this make sense at all?


i disagree tbh.  what else would the purpose of that post have been?  and as rari says there were def people going "well i can't DISprove you...'
i don't know if it's enough for me to actually suspect stryke over but i definitely think that kind of argument (particularly against someone who probably holds a power role and said outright that he doesn't intend to hang around in the thread anymore) _could_ be one taken up by opportunistic scum


----------



## Keldeo

What I meant is like, VM isn't going to be the lynch today, so why would mafia Stryke go against the flow like that instead of just pushing against one of the thread consensus suspects? But if you're right that other people were hmming at VM at the time, the read is less valid.


----------



## kyeugh

Keldeo said:


> What I meant is like, VM isn't going to be the lynch today, so why would mafia Stryke go against the flow like that instead of just pushing against one of the thread consensus suspects? But if you're right that other people were hmming at VM at the time, the read is less valid.


i get where you're coming from here but i think it's worth noting that like... there wasn't much of a flow to speak of tbh, like even this far into the day there's not reaally anything being strongly advocated by_ anyone_ right now
just throwing some light shade out there and seeing where it goes is pretty much as intense as things have gotten toDay


----------



## Keldeo

M&F said:


> I really do not like the look of Keldeo back there, kickstarting the train and then disavowing it. Mawile's casual bandwagon hop isn't the best look I've seen either. Negrek, at least, I recall having been speculating on ILS a stark ways before contributing a vote, that and I have her clear so.
> 
> hmmmmmmmm... I'm totally open to lynching Mawile today, especially if it's what it takes to get some lynching done in this day, but I'd like to see what happens if I press *Keldeo*.


What exactly did I kickstart? There was already momentum against ILS, and Mawile and Negrek posted nearly at the same time as me so I don't think my vote played any role in their votes.


----------



## Panini

HHH 
Okay so Mawile's ISO is pretty thin but I don't really feel like it's any worse than some of the other less engaged players and I think there's certain moment in here that feel a little un-informed and like Mawile is not bouncing opinions off anyone in a way that seems kind of more trumped than I would expect if it was faked:



Mawile said:


> I was expecting like two deaths minimum or something weird like that, just with the sheer number of people involved. It's kind of oddly relieving to see only one death?





Mawile said:


> There's at least a couple, I think. I can't be bothered to cross check 9 pages of posts with the player list from my phone in bed, though.





Mawile said:


> I'm confused by how we know if VM is joking or not? Is it because his role seems overpowered in addition to having the universal backup, or did I miss something else?





Mawile said:


> Opinions/thoughts/brain garbage, in a completely unsorted fashion (I doubt any of this is Actually Insightful):
> 
> Keldeo posts a lot and I like how he helps to get more information out of people in a way that doesn't feel overly aggressive.
> Eifie claims both mason and cop, which I assume means that she was recruited into the masons N0?
> VM confused me with his joke post because I immediately thought back to whoever it was in the last TVTropes Mafia that claimed that one really complicated role about needing to get the Big Bad lynched or whatever and didn't want to deal with a headache like that again.
> I think ILS's utter confusion post and Ottercopter's whole taking it seriously thing a page later also threw me off somewhat and made me think it was real, and I got even more confused.
> And then people helpfully outright told me that it was a joke, so thank you





Mawile said:


> PLEASE JUST CLAIM


I'm starting to feel like maybe I'm just being too generous since everyone seems to embody this like, affable mindset that I can't bring myself to dislike but like idk I think it feels wrong to me
Can I get a resummarised case from someone on the wagon if they have a moment?


----------



## Keldeo

Panini, can you talk more about that third post you quote? 

My impression is that people are suspicious of it because he was taking the claim seriously after, I think, many hours had passed / there had been discussion of it as a joke. 

I think I believe Mawile actually since him taking it seriously is a throughline with him taking, for example, Eifie's hypoing seriously.


----------



## Stryke

Hhhhhhhh I have to drive to my dad's house in a couple minutes and that's roughly an hour drive so I will be unable to respond to any suspicions thrown my way until then. I should be back before EoD though


----------



## kyeugh

i honestly think the first quote isn't really that AI either?  like i can 100% see scum saying that and ime (take this with a big ol chunk of salt) it is in fact often scum saying things like that


----------



## Eifie

Panini said:


> I'm starting to feel like maybe I'm just being too generous since everyone seems to embody this like, affable mindset that I can't bring myself to dislike


fucking mood


----------



## Novae

Eifie said:


> woweek


same


----------



## Eifie

and no Panini I do not have a case, I just voted him because the thread stagnated and he's managed to stay basically entirely null to me despite a decent amount of posts


----------



## Keldeo

Oh Eifie, on a scale from "possibly plausible that he could turn out to be non-town" to "if Mr. Ultracool is anything but a townie, Butterfree has gone mad with power" how clear is your clear on him? I'm taking him off the table obviously, but I don't think I told you about the game I just played where there was a 66% cop that cleared one of the wolf PRs as town, so I am extra paranoid



kyeugh said:


> i honestly think the first quote isn't really that AI either?  like i can 100% see scum saying that and ime (take this with a big ol chunk of salt) it is in fact often scum saying things like that


Yeah imo the first two quotes are not AI. The last one is like, not w/w with Ottercopter, maybe towny.


----------



## Mawile

Stryke said:


> Oh that's an L for me I guess


f



Keldeo said:


> dig the hole deeper even when there weren't that many actual votes on him.


I'm generally referring to the fact that most people seem to be viewing me as completely neutral at best, and are actively suspicious of me at worst. I think the only tier list where I've been considered above neutral was Boq's?


----------



## Eifie

Keldeo said:


> Oh Eifie, on a scale from "possibly plausible that he could turn out to be non-town" to "if Mr. Ultracool is anything but a townie, Butterfree has gone mad with power" how clear is your clear on him? I'm taking him off the table obviously, but I don't think I told you about the game I just played where there was a 66% cop that cleared one of the wolf PRs as town, so I am extra paranoid


unless the PM is meant to intentionally mislead me, he is 100% town


----------



## kyeugh

yeah i get iffy vibes from mawile too but tbf to him i don't really know what he's supposed to do about it given that no one has a specific reason for feeling bad about him and he has offered read list and analysis.  like i'd probably be equally shrug status in that situation
but also.  it is that situation!  and it is not really improving.  so


----------



## mewtini

ugh so i'm finally back, i've read through but now i'm confused lol can someone pitch wagons to me please


----------



## Novae

kyeugh said:


> am i misremembering or was he like this in the invitational too?


yes, and this game is moving 10 times faster than that one was


----------



## Eifie

kyeugh said:


> yeah i get iffy vibes from mawile too but tbf to him i don't really know what he's supposed to do about it given that no one has a specific reason for feeling bad about him and he has offered read list and analysis.  like i'd probably be equally shrug status in that situation
> but also.  it is that situation!  and it is not really improving.  so


like I feel like any wagon sucks because I am playing the game by process of elimination. so I don't _have_ reasons for voting people besides "a significant number of other people feel like town to me"


----------



## kyeugh

mewtini said:


> ugh so i'm finally back, i've read through but now i'm confused lol can someone pitch wagons to me please


wagons are far too heavy for even a gigantic animal such as an elephant to throw comfortably, let alone meek humans living hundreds of miles from you.  grow up.


----------



## mewtini

kyeugh said:


> wagons are far too heavy for even a gigantic animal such as an elephant to throw comfortably, let alone meek humans living hundreds of miles from you.  grow up.


bold words from someone who hasn't replied to my text yet tbh

superficial thoughts incoming as i read through yet again


----------



## kyeugh

Eifie said:


> like I feel like any wagon sucks because I am playing the game by process of elimination. so I don't _have_ reasons for voting people besides "a significant number of other people feel like town to me"


def agree, i just kind of think that like... we're all feeling kind of vaguely bad about him and there's not a lot he can do even if he's villager so maybe we'll just all decide he's the guy and lynch him... idk??  it kind of feels like DADV but maybe that's the best case today


----------



## kyeugh

mewtini said:


> bold words from someone who hasn't replied to my text yet tbh


hey, that's not fair!  we're not allowed to talk to each other for any reason until the game is over, you know that!  it's _rules_!


----------



## Novae

was it ever confirmed that there even was a mafia


----------



## Eifie

kyeugh said:


> def agree, i just kind of think that like... we're all feeling kind of vaguely bad about him and there's not a lot he can do even if he's villager so maybe we'll just all decide he's the guy and lynch him... idk??  it kind of feels like DADV but maybe that's the best case today


yeah I mean he can claim later I guess.

when a lot of people express bad feelings about someone but nobody actually moves to vote them I usually find that pretty suspicious because I think that's a spot that tends to be occupied by mafia a lot of the time. that was a bit of why I voted, I guess.

now that other people actually voted idk what to do.


----------



## Eifie

Mist1422 said:


> was it ever confirmed that there even was a mafia





Eifie said:


> I think every wagon is a dead end and we are all town. Butterfree is making the kills via a secret poll in a telegram channel that only spectators can access. The roles are all randomized from the mafiascum wiki and none of our night actions actually do anything. All of our role PMs were made in MS Paint. All of the posts in this thread are posted by bots at random intervals generated using Markov chains. Everybody on reddit is a robot except you.


----------



## Novae

so it's just ToSFM3 again cool


----------



## kyeugh

Eifie said:


> yeah I mean he can claim later I guess.
> 
> when a lot of people express bad feelings about someone but nobody actually moves to vote them I usually find that pretty suspicious because I think that's a spot that tends to be occupied by mafia a lot of the time. that was a bit of why I voted, I guess.
> 
> now that other people actually voted idk what to do.


this is fair tbh
i kind of just want to wait around for him to claim and then place a vote then
is there any reason for him not to do it now?  i guess he's not in mortal peril rn but like i think at the rate things are going he'll get lynched (he's the biggest wagon rn right?  someone factcheck me on that)


----------



## Novae

Mist1422 said:


> so it's just ToSFM3 again cool


if you think I'm joking, this was at the top of my role PM


----------



## mewtini

i'm sorry i won't really be able to superpost or anything because of Life Circumstances right now. superficial thoughts as i read through again for the sake of making this post:

we _are _leaving otter alone for now, right?
mf seems ... fine, but i still wonder if she's maybe posting until the heat gets off of her? no strong feelings against her though - i sort of am wondering about 2210 where she says



M&F said:


> I realize that it's more helpful to be on the ball, but such things as taking your time, writing longer posts, and going longer than 2 hours without checking the thread are really a lot less alignment-indicative than the MU players are taking it to be


i mean. i am not MU, so. but i think some questioning (of those like stryke, seri, etc) of those who have literally posted fewer than 10 times is warranted

i feel colossally bad for mawile lol but i still feel kind of weird and don't see that going away anytime soon (this is still a main wagon right)(_tbh why hasn't he roleclaimed yet?)_
kind of opposed to the keldeo wagon but for reasons i can't totally put my finger on. i was a bit intimidated by his #interrogation earlier but now i'm kind of chilling, they don't seem performative as others have said - i also don't think i've felt like he's derailed either, really, even though his interrogation style would make it very easy for him to do so imo
speaking of, still strongly townreading eifie
i see some mist shade being thrown and i don't know if i think it's even worth pursuing that avenue with 2 hours left lol
i'm sorry to say this after i planned to leave it alone, i still feel faintly weird about negrek perhaps bc idk what this means



Negrek said:


> I'd be more suspicious of the people pointing their fingers at Keldeo over his death, which would be Eifie and mewtini.


(i don't recall doing or thinking this but maybe my short-term memory is just bad lmfao)
anyway i don't feel bad enough to pursue this over other wagons probably but hm

kind of don't know how i feel about emmy's posts recently but it's just because i feel odd about people who seem to be getting swayed easily? nor do i really know her reasons for suspecting keldeo (i know that there are people wondering about him and i sort of am wavering on that, but those people have given some reasons) and i know she's pretty much locktown so this is much more of a pipe thought than anything
don't like RNP a ton for coming in and throwing shade on emmy in 2234 for a post where i thought she was incredibly innocuous
i disagree that this line makes mawile especially towny



Mawile said:


> And I'm probably just going to dig myself further into a hole by posting since people are already suspicious of me :x



i like that herbe doesn't seem to make random claims/isn't swayed _too _easily, but is still not tunneling hard on anyone. seems towny imo
i'm still virtually unable to read panini so someone help me there please lol. maybe not today, it seems to not matter yet?


----------



## Eifie

kyeugh said:


> this is fair tbh
> i kind of just want to wait around for him to claim and then place a vote then
> is there any reason for him not to do it now?  i guess he's not in mortal peril rn but like i think at the rate things are going he'll get lynched (he's the biggest wagon rn right?  someone factcheck me on that)


I dunno. I'm used to it being ideal for people not to claim until the last minute if they're still about to die then but like yeah right now I'm basically just whiling away the time until like 5 min before end of day when people claim


----------



## mewtini

Eifie said:


> people I would vote on rn are like... Mawile serimachi Stryke Mist (maybe) Flora RNP Odie_Pie
> 
> I actually think Odie_Pie is pretty likely to be mafia just based on the number of people in the thread that seem so towny


tbh i kind of agree with this and i don't know how to feel about anyone who isn't the target of a mainwagon (mawile/stryke)

maybe i'm leaning towards an odie vote? idk! someone tell me what to do!!!


----------



## Eifie

mewtini said:


> idk! someone tell me what to do!!!


same


----------



## rari_teh

Panini said:


> Can I get a resummarised case from someone on the wagon if they have a moment?


The wagon is composed of Eifie, yours truly and nobody else atm. Like the other two ongoing wagons, it is mostly based off gut feelings and general weirdness, since there’s no public solid evidence against anybody as of now.


----------



## Panini

Okay I'll just take a second pass at it:


> Mawile said:
> I was expecting like two deaths minimum or something weird like that, just with the sheer number of people involved.* It's kind of oddly relieving to see only one death?*


My bad read here is that there's no expectation for more deaths and that he's openly speculating that there should have been more without feeling too self conscious on how that projects onto him


> Mawile said:
> There's at least a couple, I think. I can't be bothered to cross check 9 pages of posts with the player list from my phone in bed, though.


being more aware of who's playing and who's not playing is more natural when you're openly working with a subset of them

I don't feel like either of the above two are terribly clearing on their own it's more that I felt like I should pull them anyway because they were a part of the overall impression I was talking about.


> Mawile said:
> I'm confused by how we know if VM is joking or not? Is it because his role seems overpowered in addition to having the universal backup, or did I miss something else?


Isn't this the like
same exact thing we ended up starting on ILS/Otter for? I don't really see why him being suspicious about it hours after the fact that it had been explained is more likely to not be town - you could argue that it's trying to keep shade on a target but I think most people would supercede what they can push with the way they come off as being more important and this kind of shows Mawile's not really thinking about the latter (and also like, hasn't talked with anybody in wolf chat about whether this is still an opportunity or not)

Bare in mind I haven't played with Mawile before so I'm kind of tailoring this to my understanding of where his comfort and skill level is at but yea.


----------



## Ottercopter

Glad I'm not the only one who doesn't have strong feelings about lynching this close to the end, at least. Same problem as Eifie and Panini, I have a hard time pinning down suspicious vibes/behavior. ;-;

Serimachi lynch sounds fine, Stryke lynch sounds... maybe fine? I feel a little bad committing knowing that he's away for a bit, so hopefully we can have at useful discussion once he returns. And I know there was an entire questioning and response with Mawile, but I've kinda... forgotten it, lol. Trying to do too much in the game at once. I'll read it over again in about 40 mins when I've rested my brain a bit?


(There's not much of substance below here, it's just thoughts that people seem to like hearing generally.)
----


Spoiler: Vague and Not Helpful Tier List, no seriously, it's mostly neutrals



*I trust:*
-IndigoEmmy

*Good Vibes:*
-VM
-Mewtini (although I am ABSOLUTELY gonna admit that I might be biased because she believes me ;-;)
-Eifie (Shutting down cop spec sticks out as the most recent thing)
-Negrek (I guess knowing tropes doesn't have to be a town role, but it feels like it would be weirder as a mafia role.)
-Kyeugh

*Neutral:*
-Herbe (Closer to good)
-MF
-Panini
-Seshas
-Keldeo (I see where people distrustful of him are coming from, but Eifie vouches for him and it's still only day 2. After ILS, I have my doubts about trying to judge scumminess based mostly around how many thoughts someone's volunteering when we don't have much concrete info to go by. Which is fine, don't take this to mean I'm asking people to start claiming. Neutral good...?)
-Mist (closer to bad, but I don't feel strongly about it)
-Serimachi
-Kokorico
-Stryke
-Mr. Ultracool

????
Mawile


*Bad Vibes:*
-Rari_teh (Might be biased because they've distrusted me for a loooong time, even when I at least THOUGHT I was a townie. There's nothing really new here from the last time I was asked about my feelings.)

*Inactive:*
-Odie
-Flora (with reason)

*Inactive +:*
-RNP (I know he just posted, but based on her MI clam, I don't see any reason to suspect IE and I'm assuming he just hasn't looked. Like, I guess an MI doesn't necessarily have to be town aligned, but there's no reason to think it would be mafia aligned besides TWIST! either so far). Also, Kyuegh said that messing around is his normal playstyle, but even if it is, I don't see much to lose

*Just here for the food:*
Me





Spoiler



So I've spent the past couple days in the thread going back from the very start and trying to... abridge the game, essentially. I've got a google drive of a few hundred posts now, so i'm gonna review them one by one and do a stream of consciousness thing in case that helps...? And again, starting from the very start here, so most of this probably won't be current discussion relevant and some of it might be repetitive with stuff other people have already discussed.

I'm kinda wondering again what a _non-town aligned_ Deadly Doctor was actually supposed to do. Both the overnight death so far have been bloodless and there weren't more deaths back when JackPK could theoretically have sent in a night action either. I'd guess maybe they could sabotage a doctor so that their target would die, but that's so niche until you find out who a healer is. So eh.
Still unclear about the meaning of _"The Mafia has someone pulling the strings behind the curtain,"_plus I still feel like it's a bit at odds with IE's MI tip. Like, "There are rival nanomachine and magic doctors" immediately tells us that there are at least two doctors in the game, plus the hint about them not getting along. I think it's entirely possible that "pulling the strings" is one of those things that'll eventually make us smack our foreheads and go "Oh, duh" when we learn more info, but for now, I'm still a little apprehensive. A Mafia member would probably know that too.
Although something in Seshas's favor is that they didn't initially claim MI when they first posted the info because they were unsure of the rules. At that point, VM and Negrek HAD claimed, so if Seshas were faking MI, they probably coulda just said that.
At 614, Seshas notes that they "Weren't sure whether [they] could quite [their] rolecard.

After 244 (where he posts a lot of his thoughts of various players and as of 603, Keldeo spends a lot of time asking for people's thoughts about other players. Unless it's just because those are the posts of his I saved. Kokorico notes something kinda similar in 612.
The next post I have where Keldeo posts his own thoughts on people and events is 813.

Kokorico being wary of Keldeo is the only post of them I have saved so far and I hope there's more. I also see that MF thinks Keldeo seems off too and I thiiiiink they're some of the first?
Starting to see some obvious holes in the posts I collected, whoops. There's one here where Mr. Ultracool is quoted, but I don't have the original for context. And he posted so rarely that I don't have much to go by. Also, I missed two D1 tier lists, dammit.
Mewtini is the first person I see here to suspect ILS
[I don't have a lot of EoD posts, I think because I'm a little embarassed about what I did and subconsciously didn't look that closely, but I should probably check the actual thread over again. At least Rari_teh has the collection of votes in that one post?]
A God am I... Maybe they could redirect people's actions or see who targetted them? Sort of playing off that characteristic of being controlling or treating themselves as above everyone? Or just a cultist, like people were saying. 
But I dunno if either of those would fit dying smiling. It shouldn't even be that he wanted to get killed by the Mafia because that's me.
How do Mafia cults work, again? Recruit one person every night? So if Boq was the leader, what happens now?


Agreeing with the people saying VM would be a pretty easy target for the Mafia, so they might have avoided him because any number of people that could protect VM would probably try to. Whereas nobody would think to protect Boq, who was at least an active poster with noted Mafia experience.
Okay, I'm nearly caught up and this wasn't even a quarter as helpful as I was hoping it woulda been. Also, some of the Day 2 posts are outright out of order. Also also, I think my information retention has plummeted, so I think I should stop here.


----------



## Keldeo

What are your thoughts on mist themself, mewtini?



mewtini said:


> maybe i'm leaning towards an odie vote? idk! someone tell me what to do!!!


Yeah idk. I feel seomwhat uncomfortable about like every vote that I could place.


----------



## Herbe

there are 2 other wagons, rari?
also eifie said she'd probably switch vote later

i think enough people have been feeling weird about stryke all thread that it's not a terrible go, but yes, it is based off gut feelings and general weirdness. 

panini's evidence/take on mawile makes me feel quite better about him/kinda worse about people trying to lynch him


----------



## mewtini

Keldeo said:


> What are your thoughts on mist themself, mewtini?


kind of exactly ... neutral? not sure what to make of the fact that they're inactive, but like, unapologetically so - to the point where they're not posting in a LAMIST way, or trying to avoid getting inactive-flagged, they're just. There



Mist1422 said:


> and I'm having trouble caring about this game at all tbh


like this is just making me shrug a lot

so idk. i sort of don't feel like there's enough to go on and i almost feel like mist discourse is a waste of time at this part of the day


----------



## mewtini

in re: mawile, i know that i've said i felt weird about him, but i also feel basically null about him right now :x i won't contest a mawile wagon if it comes to that but fsr i feel better about a stryke wagon ... ? maybe biased because mawile has been more active and apologetic, but idk

i'm not as convinced by panini's post as herbe is, but the post did kinda encapsulate why i feel nothing about mawile at the end of the day. i DID feel odd but i also rationally know that it's the sort of discomfort that may very well 100% be "his takes aren't as informed or substantive as i want them to be" but i don't think that i feel like he's town either


----------



## rari_teh

Mist1422 said:


> was it ever confirmed that there even was a mafia


Is it even possible though?



kyeugh said:


> is there any reason for him not to do it now?  i guess he's not in mortal peril rn but like i think at the rate things are going he'll get lynched (he's the biggest wagon rn right?  someone factcheck me on that)





Herbe said:


> there are 2 other wagons, rari?


Unless I counted wrong, Stryke is ahead with 3 votes. Mawile has two and Panini has one (@Herbe)



mewtini said:


> we _are _leaving otter alone for now, right?


Seems like it.


----------



## Eifie

it feels like a waste of post to say meh, I wouldn't be surprised by either flip, but also meh, I wouldn't be surprised by either flip


----------



## mewtini

how do we feel about odie tbh :T


----------



## Eifie

mewtini said:


> how do we feel about odie tbh :T


god I wish this had been brought up earlier in the day because now that it feels like there's some resistance to the Mawile lynch I kind of want it to happen a bit more


----------



## Panini

*Mist1422 *I think this is where I feel the most uneasy in my heart as of right now tbh

I'd probably also be open to Seri or Odie but I don't want to get told off again TT /s


----------



## qenya

mewtini said:


> ugh so i'm finally back, i've read through but now i'm confused lol


Tell me about it! It feels like almost everyone we've looked at today has given us reasonable doubt:

Panini's explained her EOD1 and seems to know what she's doing
M&F has also been offering more now that the postening is more or less over
Mawile might not be terribly active but is being cogent
RNP shows no sign of doing other than trolling, which may be a pro or con depending on your point of view
Flora has a bona fide irl reason not to be here atm
Keldeo, well, we've discussed this at length, I still feel uneasy but I don't have anything more to offer and am starting to doubt myself
Stryke is providing a lot of original thought, although he hasn't given much to substantiate his unusual reads
serimachi: *crickets*
That list is broadly ordered by my impressions (most to least towny) but tbh there isn't much to go on at all. And just by numbers (assuming the ~25-30% mafia guess from upthread is still sensible) we've almost certainly missed at least one or two mafia in there, if not more.

Personally I'm not a big fan of the Stryke wagon because I don't see how his complaints against VM serve to help mafia, so I'm parking my vote on *serimachi* for now in the absence of better alternatives. but policy-lynching inactives is not much better than abstaining imo so I fully expect to be swayed to someone else at some point before eod

tl;dr:


Mist1422 said:


> help


----------



## Herbe

eif, mewtini, if y'all think odie would be a better lynch, I'll go with y'all
kinda seems like our least bad choice right now?


----------



## qenya

mewtini said:


> how do we feel about odie tbh :T


also would not object to this


----------



## mewtini

kyeugh said:


> i feel like we are getting nowhere and odie is like the last truly inactive person aside from flora ig who i think we should leave alone for the time being
> i'm kinda here for it tbh





kyeugh said:


> why? if i were scum i would leave odie alive as long as possible because they're doing absolutely nothing to jeopardize a mafia victory





Eifie said:


> I actually think Odie_Pie is pretty likely to be mafia just based on the number of people in the thread that seem so towny


last two are very legitimate remarks imo


----------



## Panini

Eifie said:


> god I wish this had been brought up earlier in the day because now that it feels like there's some resistance to the Mawile lynch I kind of want it to happen a bit more


A fair thought
I think it probably wouldn't come up early regardless since most people want to use the day to the fullest tho


----------



## Eifie

Herbe said:


> eif, mewtini, if y'all think odie would be a better lynch, I'll go with y'all
> kinda seems like our least bad choice right now?


ask me again in about an hour


----------



## Herbe

as i posted this, panini's and koko's posts juuuust came through lmao


----------



## Panini

and inactives always feels like a cop out kinda


----------



## Eifie

Panini said:


> and inactives always feels like a cop out kinda


yeah öörgh but I want to know if there really are a lot of mafia in there or if I'm terribly misreading several people

rrrrr


----------



## mewtini

i think the only semiactive player i'd feel moderately ok voting for right now is mawile but i feel so uneasy about how. evenly "okay" i feel about everyone, except for my few strong town reads and we all know who they are


----------



## mewtini

also because of what eifie just said i feel like at least lynching inactives will feel like we're narrowing down. at least given the fact that i feel like this day phase has revealed nothing except that my questionable feelings about a lot of people are now ... even more complex (MF especially)


----------



## Keldeo

Random thoughts on A God Am I, because bluh idk where to go wrt actual thread stuff:
- The fact that it goes to villainous characters / is associated woth a lot of villainous tropes has me scratching my head a bit about Boq's flip. Were 'villainous' tropes usually mafia in the older game, or did that not really factor into someone's alignment?
- Does not really make sense for Boq being a bodyguard, I think?
- Dreaming God or something might make sense, I think that was brought up at some point by someone. But the page says it relies on a self-proclamation - not actually having powers. Makes me think Boq might have to activate his ability in the thread?

Negrek's the source for this being Boq's power, right?

tl;dr I have no idea but it seems a little fishy but I still have no idea what to do with that.


----------



## Panini

Eifie said:


> yeah öörgh but I want to know if there really are a lot of mafia in there or if I'm terribly misreading several people
> 
> rrrrr


yeah I mean I don't disagree that's why I'm lowkey on board if the wagons stay in disarray

that was supposed to be connected to the other things so like: the reason why no one said anything earlier isn't necessary mawile it could just be people don't like considering it until they have

but I had to wait 7 seconds to perform the action so me post got split


----------



## mewtini

Keldeo said:


> Negrek's the source for this being Boq's power, right?


yeah


----------



## rari_teh

Ottercopter said:


> How do Mafia cults work, again? Recruit one person every night? So if Boq was the leader, what happens now?


If this article is an indicative of how would a cult work here, the one or two cultists are on their own and pretty much already lost


----------



## Keldeo

Sorry for all the typos :( I promise I'll get on the ball at some point. 



Eifie said:


> yeah öörgh but I want to know if there really are a lot of mafia in there or if I'm terribly misreading several people
> 
> rrrrr


You asked me if the game was hard. Who would be mafia that you're currently townreading to make the game hard? What are your doubts?

I feel pretty good about my strong town tier and have like no thoughts outside of that, haha... I think the reads I feel most doubtful about there are kyeugh/mewtini/rari, because kyeugh's fooled me before and I don't have a metric for mewtini/rari's scum ranges, but I still feel good about the reads.


----------



## mewtini

Keldeo said:


> I don't have a metric for mewtini/rari's scum ranges


i don't either tbh


----------



## rari_teh

Keldeo said:


> - Does not really make sense for Boq being a bodyguard, I think?


Okay, this is a long shot, but it’s something that passed through my mind: what if A God Am I means that he has delusions of immortality, and thus he’s a bodyguard?

but then again if that were true he wouldn’t die at home


----------



## Eifie

Keldeo said:


> You asked me if the game was hard. Who would be mafia that you're currently townreading to make the game hard? What are your doubts?
> 
> I feel pretty good about my strong town tier and have like no thoughts outside of that, haha... I think the reads I feel most doubtful about there are kyeugh/mewtini/rari, because kyeugh's fooled me before and I don't have a metric for mewtini/rari's scum ranges, but I still feel good about the reads.


I have been thinking about that but was unsure if it is productive to talk about right now

I think kyeugh is like 99% town and mewtini is like 90% town though


----------



## Keldeo

I mean, transparency, what else are we doing, etc.

With Herbe I'm not boosting him up to my top town tier because there's less of the, like, initiative or restlessness that I see in Mewtini (the former is the same with kyeugh, but kyeugh has had a greater volume / consistency / fluidity in her thoughts imo) - I remember there was a post at some point toDay where he just said like welp, guess there's nothing else to do right now, and on day 1 I had to prod him to give reasoning - but I've also felt like his posts and takes are like, fine and reasonable. I like his tone.


----------



## Keldeo

rari_teh said:


> but then again if that were true he wouldn’t die at home


Oh, I didn't even realize. I think him having died peacefully(?) in his bed is a pretty big point against him having intercepted some kind of kill...


----------



## Eifie

Keldeo said:


> I mean, transparency, what else are we doing, etc.
> 
> With Herbe I'm not boosting him up to my top town tier because there's less of the, like, initiative or restlessness that I see in Mewtini (the former is the same with kyeugh, but kyeugh has had a greater volume / consistency / fluidity in her thoughts imo) - I remember there was a post at some point toDay where he just said like welp, guess there's nothing else to do right now, and on day 1 I had to prod him to give reasoning - but I've also felt like his posts and takes are like, fine and reasonable. I like his tone.


the other 3 people in my probably town tier were Herbe, rari_teh, and Kokorico I think. I can't decide which one would be the one I was wrong about if any. personally I think maybe Herbe, but qva's take on rari_teh has been giving me a lot of pause because I think qva has really good instincts. and Kokorico I feel I'm just kinda townreading because everyone else does and they seem to have solid enough posts


----------



## Herbe

i am Simply Photosynthesizing
take me as I am


----------



## mewtini

Eifie said:


> personally I think maybe Herbe


i wondered earlier but my personal case in favor of town!herbe is that, regardless of alignment, he's new to the game and will be timid either way. with those anxieties in mind i feel like mafia!herbe would probably not have the growth curve that he's had in this game - where he started out quiet but grew into himself a bit and started fighting for or against people on occasion

on the other hand i think herbe is so likable that mafiachat totally would have appointed him to be the mafia rep among the actives :(((



Eifie said:


> qva's take on rari_teh has been giving me a lot of pause because I think qva has really good instincts


i've been thinking about this too today but also don't want to open this can of worms now


----------



## Keldeo

Yeah, I see that wrt Rari, Eifie... 

I don't actually think I have anything concrete I can point to on them besides the lol "keeping a CSV" read, which maybe means I'm being bamboozled, but they have posted like 200+ times in a huge thread and they keep doing these really small things that make me feel good. Like recently, talking about how Odie could get killed by the mafia... if they were involved with the mafia chat planning a kill last night, why would they think that? It could be faked but it feels more genuine. idk it's super nebulous.


----------



## rari_teh

mewtini said:


> on the other hand i think herbe is so likable that mafiachat totally would have appointed him to be the mafia rep among the actives :(((


I hadn’t thought about this possibility. Hm. (still townreading him tho)


Keldeo said:


> Oh, I didn't even realize. I think him having died peacefully(?) in his bed is a pretty big point against him having intercepted some kind of kill...


(but then again the mafia may be fucking around with the flavourtext)


----------



## mewtini

rari_teh said:


> I hadn’t thought about this possibility. Hm.


yeah i didn't say this with the intent of throwing suspicion on him. herbe remains one of my strong townreads, but i'm very afraid that he'll betray me lol. he's pocketing me just by being cute


----------



## mewtini

my read on him is one of my townreads that's like super contingent on tone, but as time goes on his growth curve is also adding to my Trust Level


----------



## Keldeo

rari_teh said:


> (but then again the mafia may be fucking around with the flavourtext)


...Right, ugh.

One hour left, what are the wagons? I could go for Odie, I guess, but I agree with Panini that any inactive feels like a cop-out, but I don't really have strong scumreads on anyone. Let me actually look over Mawile and Stryke again.


----------



## Herbe

so we're t-minus an hour, yeah? at least it actually feels like we have an hour left, vs it feeling like we had 5 minutes left at this time last day
also if y'all have any questions for me i'm happy to answer :> but it seems like i'm just kinda spectating a chat about me so idk if theres any call to action for me to Respond


----------



## qenya

rari_teh said:


> If this article is an indicative of how would a cult work here, the one or two cultists are on their own and pretty much already lost


extremely left-field guess: Eifie's "hardclaim n1 green" on Mr. Ultracool is from them being the cultists?

tbh I doubt this is worth speculating about 1 hour before the deadline though


----------



## rari_teh

@Keldeo: if I didn’t accidentally skip anything, the wagons are:

Stryke : Herbe, IndigoEmmy, M&F
Mawile : Eifie, rari_teh
Panini : Mist
Mist1422 : Panini
serimachi : kokorico


----------



## Keldeo

Keldeo said:


> Random thoughts on A God Am I, because bluh idk where to go wrt actual thread stuff:
> - The fact that it goes to villainous characters / is associated woth a lot of villainous tropes has me scratching my head a bit about Boq's flip. Were 'villainous' tropes usually mafia in the older game, or did that not really factor into someone's alignment?
> - Does not really make sense for Boq being a bodyguard, I think?
> - Dreaming God or something might make sense, I think that was brought up at some point by someone. But the page says it relies on a self-proclamation - not actually having powers. Makes me think Boq might have to activate his ability in the thread?
> 
> Negrek's the source for this being Boq's power, right?
> 
> tl;dr I have no idea but it seems a little fishy but I still have no idea what to do with that.


Continuing on this line, "godliness" or "being godlike" could relate to:
- omniscience or great knowledge, similar to what Ottercopter was proposing
- absolute or great power, although the page notes that just having godlike powers themselves doesn't count
- simple cockiness or confidence (implied overconfidence) - I guess I just don't have any idea how this would translate to an ability in a mafia game, haha. Besides a public action, maybe something that could possibly backfire?

Flavor spec is probably kinda useless.


----------



## Stryke

Do you guys want me to roleclaim or something


----------



## rari_teh

kokorico said:


> extremely left-field guess: Eifie's "hardclaim n1 green" on Mr. Ultracool is from them being the cultists?
> 
> tbh I doubt this is worth speculating about 1 hour before the deadline though


Holy shit I want to save this line of thought to pull on it on d3


----------



## mewtini

rari_teh said:


> Holy shit I want to save this line of thought to pull on it on d3


:/


----------



## rari_teh

Stryke said:


> Do you guys want me to roleclaim or something


Yes! At least I do.


----------



## Keldeo

Stryke said:


> Do you guys want me to roleclaim or something


Not until later, imo.


----------



## Herbe

Stryke said:


> Do you guys want me to roleclaim or something


Yeah that would be cool actually. Be our guest


----------



## mewtini

Stryke said:


> Do you guys want me to roleclaim or something


if you feel it would be valuable maybe, but if you'll be around for the rest of EoD i don't think you need to now


----------



## Eifie

Keldeo said:


> Not until later, imo.


what do you think is really going to happen in the next 40 minutes?


----------



## Herbe

Keldeo said:


> Not until later, imo.


oh, huh. Any specific reason you think so? should it be like t-30 min?


----------



## mewtini

tbh 1hr warning that i do want to see a roleclaim from @Mawile at some point before EoD depending on how voting is about to go down


----------



## Keldeo

Eifie said:


> what do you think is really going to happen in the next 40 minutes?


Sure, but on principle I don't think it would be great for him to claim unless he's dying for sure, and the wagons are super loose right now. Does that make sense? 

Like Stryke can claim now if he wants, but I don't want him to have to reveal that info if it's not actually useful to us.


----------



## Ottercopter

We should probably only get roleclaims from people about to die unless they have something immediately useful, right? Otherwise we're just narrowing down the field of cops, doctors, and other roles that the mafia's definitely gonna want to kill.


----------



## mewtini

that is also why i said he shouldn't feel the need to right now. i think it's likely that things tighten up a bit soon and the voting veers somewhere wild :|


----------



## Eifie

Keldeo said:


> Sure, but on principle I don't think it would be great for him to claim unless he's dying for sure, and the wagons are super loose right now. Does that make sense?
> 
> Like Stryke can claim now if he wants, but I don't want him to have to reveal that info if it's not actually useful to us.


meh idk, it's not like if he doesn't get lynched today we aren't still going to want to resolve him tomorrow


----------



## kyeugh

*odie_pie*
i think i would’ve laid my case on rari out toDay if i knew it was going to be so uneventful
might fuck around and do it tomorrow


----------



## qenya

Eifie said:


> meh idk, it's not like if he doesn't get lynched today we aren't still going to want to resolve him tomorrow


but surely it would then be better to have the information tomorrow, _after_ mafia do their nightkill?


----------



## kyeugh

someone should tell me why i should vote mawile over odie


----------



## mewtini

*mawile *(p much with the intent of keeping the top 2 wagons even for now; might switch later)

this puts us at

(3) Stryke: Herbe, IndigoEmmy, M&F
(3) Mawile: Eifie, rari_teh, mewtini
(1) Panini: Mist
(1) Mist1422: Panini
(1) serimachi: kokorico
(1) odie_pie: kyeugh


----------



## Panini

Eifie said:


> meh idk, it's not like if he doesn't get lynched today we aren't still going to want to resolve him tomorrow


hm still feels unnecessary if we're not going to end there, one unouted night can make a big difference depending on what it is?

On the other I get not wanting to repeat what happened to ILS so maybe a middle ground is best


----------



## Eifie

kokorico said:


> but surely it would then be better to have the information tomorrow, _after_ mafia do their nightkill?


I suppose

I'm just bored and feel like I'm waiting an hour for the inevitable


----------



## kyeugh

Eifie said:


> I suppose
> 
> I'm just bored and feel like I'm waiting an hour for the inevitable


the wagons are random! there’s no such thing as inevitable!


----------



## Ottercopter

Is there a good reason not to do say it now, Kyeugh? Even if we don't wanna start a last minute rari_teh wagon, we never know if you'll end up dead tomorrow before you can say it.



Eifie said:


> meh idk, it's not like if he doesn't get lynched today we aren't still going to want to resolve him tomorrow


Yeah, but tomorrow's a new day with at least sooooome new information in theory. It's another night for a theoretical cop to add to their list of inspected people or whatever.

God, i still dunno who to nominate today...


----------



## kyeugh

panini and mist sitting on their votes for each other is weird


----------



## mewtini

kyeugh said:


> someone should tell me why i should vote mawile over odie


i think the best point i've seen (still tenuous) is what you said, about how mawile feels more unresolvably uncomfortable and untrustworthy than others. other than that i still am more pro-odie and that might be my top preference rn, just waiting to see if it gains any traction ://


----------



## mewtini

Ottercopter said:


> Is there a good reason not to do say it now, Kyeugh? _Even if we don't wanna start a last minute rari_teh wagon, we never know if __you'll end up dead tomorrow before you can say it._


:C


----------



## kyeugh

Ottercopter said:


> Is there a good reason not to do say it now, Kyeugh? Even if we don't wanna start a last minute rari_teh wagon, we never know if you'll end up dead tomorrow before you can say it.


i don’t want to type it on my phone tbh. if i die overnight you know rari killed me! dohohohoh!


----------



## Herbe

mewtini said:


> just waiting to see if it gains any traction ://


tbh im only staying on stryke rn to keep the wagons even, but if you want to flip to odie w me (my preference anyway) then im down mewtini


----------



## Panini

kyeugh said:


> panini and mist sitting on their votes for each other is weird


If you make me pick between Mawile and Stryke I probably go Mawile > Stryke but I don't feel confident in either and would rather go here or Odie

Part of the reason I don't feel good about Chemist is _because _he's been sitting on me all day without really explaining himself so


----------



## kyeugh

if you do that i’ll probably go to mawile tbh


----------



## Ottercopter

For the record, not advocating a last minute lynch wagon for a non-Odie, Mawile, or Stryke person. I think we should stick to what we've decided at this point and not try to introduce someone new based on last minute panic if we don't have time to think it over???


----------



## Keldeo

I don't know how to process Mawile's self-consciousness and focus on optics. I honestly think the fact that he's talking openly about it is pretty towny, but I don't... have much of an opinion on his thoughts overall? So I can see what Eifie et al. are saying about him remaining like very null for everyone.


Mawile said:


> For what it's worth, I spend a fair amount of time (when I'm actually online) reading the thread and typing up a post and then I get cold feet because I get worried that it sounds too much like someone else's post and then people will be even more suspicious of me. And then I delete the post and usually post a meme instead :x


----------



## Eifie

kyeugh said:


> i don’t want to type it on my phone tbh. if i die overnight you know rari killed me! dohohohoh!


----------



## mewtini

Panini said:


> If you make me pick between Mawile and Stryke I probably go Mawile > Stryke but I don't feel confident in either and would rather go here or Odie


this is about how i feel i think

any case i make about stryke feels too much like ILS so im scared but honestly maybe i need to let go because


----------



## Eifie

Panini said:


> If you make me pick between Mawile and Stryke I probably go Mawile > Stryke but I don't feel confident in either and would rather go here or Odie
> 
> Part of the reason I don't feel good about Chemist is _because _he's been sitting on me all day without really explaining himself so


oh really? I thought you felt worse about Stryke


----------



## rari_teh

Panini said:


> Part of the reason I don't feel good about Chemist is _because _he's been sitting on me all day without really explaining himself so


I don’t know if that’s a good reason? I mean, qva’s been shading me since d1 and I don’t really have a reason to suspect of her


----------



## Keldeo

kokorico said:


> Keldeo, well, we've discussed this at length, I still feel uneasy but I don't have anything more to offer and *am starting to doubt myself*
> Stryke is providing a lot of original thought, although *he hasn't given much to substantiate his unusual reads*


Why for these bolded parts? I thought Stryke talked about some of his reads at length. I think I agree with your take on him below that, below.

What are your thoughts on Mawile vs. Stryke?


----------



## Panini

Eifie said:


> oh really? I thought you felt worse about Stryke


I felt were about Stryke because I think thread context makes him look bad but I kind like where he went today so I'm hm about it


----------



## Mawile

mewtini said:


> (_tbh why hasn't he roleclaimed yet?)_


I think the closest thing I can find to my role is a motion detector: basically I can choose a person and if they get targeted by a night action or if they use a night action themselves, I get notified. I haven't really gotten much out of it, unfortunately.


----------



## Keldeo

Panini said:


> I felt were about Stryke because I think thread context makes him look bad but *I kind like where he went today* so I'm hm about it


In what way?


----------



## qenya

Ottercopter said:


> For the record, not advocating a last minute lynch wagon for a non-Odie, Mawile, or Stryke person. I think we should stick to what we've decided at this point and not try to introduce someone new based on last minute panic if we don't have time to think it over???


Yeah tbh this is probably wise. Really don't want a situation where Stryke claims a power role and we all panic and switch to Mawile, who turns out to be the missing nanotech doc or something

So, since nobody else seems to be going for serimachi, I guess I'll join kyeugh on *Odie_Pie* just so we have a viable alternative wagon if that happens.


----------



## Panini

rari_teh said:


> I don’t know if that’s a good reason? I mean, qva’s been shading me since d1 and I don’t really have a reason to suspect of her


It's not really because he's reading me negatively so much as I don't think he's reading me, at least not openly


----------



## Eifie

I kind of want to join Panini on Mist but also kind of think I'm being stupid


----------



## Keldeo

Hmmm.



Mawile said:


> I think the closest thing I can find to my role is a motion detector: basically I can choose a person and if they get targeted by a night action or if they use a night action themselves, I get notified. I haven't really gotten much out of it, unfortunately.


Who did you target these first two nights? Would that be beneficial to say, do you think?


----------



## kyeugh

Mawile said:


> I think the closest thing I can find to my role is a motion detector: basically I can choose a person and if they get targeted by a night action or if they use a night action themselves, I get notified. I haven't really gotten much out of it, unfortunately.


is this an easy scum claim or villy bc he would’ve invented results as scum


----------



## Mawile

I'll also pile on the *Odie_Pie* wagon for now because I would rather not die.


----------



## mewtini

maybe i'm too trusting. motion detector doesn't sound like a made-up roleclaim
*stryke*

(4) Stryke: Herbe, IndigoEmmy, M&F, mewtini
(2) Mawile: Eifie, rari_teh
(1) Panini: Mist
(1) Mist1422: Panini
(1) serimachi: kokorico
(2) odie_pie: kyeugh, kokorico


----------



## Herbe

Eh I'm not gonna be timid about switching to *odie_pie,* this vote gives me the least anxiety tbh


----------



## Keldeo

kyeugh said:


> is this an easy scum claim or villy bc he would’ve invented results as scum


Dangerous to invent results if he didn't have this role just in case someone didn't act, right? But then again they could have been targeted I guess.



Panini said:


> It's not really because he's reading me negatively so much as I don't think he's reading me, at least not openly


Yeah, I think his vote on you was basically entirely a sheep on Boq.


----------



## mewtini

wait i'm SORRY for jumping but i need to fix the tally and i also want to move

(5) odie_pie: kyeugh, kokorico, mewtini, Mawile, Herbe
(2) Stryke: IndigoEmmy, M&F
(2) Mawile: Eifie, rari_teh
(1) Panini: Mist
(1) Mist1422: Panini

i think


----------



## kyeugh

bruh tf
*mawile*


----------



## mewtini

i'll ... stick to #periodic recounts


----------



## Stryke

*odie_pie*


----------



## Panini

Keldeo said:


> In what way?


From earlier:


Panini said:


> I actually really like (and appreciate!) what Stryke came back with for the most part. The wall esp. Felt just kinda. Good. A little bit of variation from what we’re considering thread normal but not wildly agenda-like yknow. The followup post on VM/Mist reasoning was good too (even though what I think personally wrt to VM is more in line with mewtini’s thoughts in #2095). I’m a little surprised I’m that high up so I want to know what he has to say about me too really and personally I’d also like to hear a quick bit more about the Mr. Ultracool and rari_teh reads too if you have the time.


Feel less staunch about it now because like time erosion but


----------



## Herbe

mewtini you didn't bold odie's name, you didnt actually switch lmao


----------



## Eifie

it's unfortunate that Mawile's role claim is just also null haha


----------



## Ottercopter

kyeugh said:


> is this an easy scum claim or villy bc he would’ve invented results as scum


First thing that comes to my mind is that there's a reaaaaally obvious person to target with that and I'm wondering if he checked VM. But that could out a doctor or a bodyguard just as easily since there was only one death last night, same as night 0, so I'm apprehensive about asking.


----------



## mewtini

mewtini said:


> wait i'm SORRY for jumping but i need to fix the tally and i also want to move
> 
> (5) odie_pie: kyeugh, kokorico, mewtini, Mawile, Herbe
> (2) Stryke: IndigoEmmy, M&F
> (2) Mawile: Eifie, rari_teh
> (1) Panini: Mist
> (1) Mist1422: Panini
> 
> i think


i should prolly actually vote

*odie_pie*


----------



## Keldeo

Whoa, okay.



Stryke said:


> *odie_pie*


Hi! What do you think about Mawile?


----------



## kyeugh

Keldeo said:


> Dangerous to invent results if he didn't have this role just in case someone didn't act, right? But then again they could have been targeted I guess.


 also he has eifie’s cop cover to lean on as well as mafia targeting dead people


----------



## mewtini

for posterity/all of us looking back on EoD, i want to say that voting odie_pie rn is probably incredibly insignificant when i think a lot of us are voting odie because we don't really know what else to do. at least that's my case


----------



## Keldeo

Ottercopter said:


> First thing that comes to my mind is that there's a reaaaaally obvious person to target with that and I'm wondering if he checked VM. But that could out a doctor or a bodyguard just as easily since there was only one death last night, same as night 0, so I'm apprehensive about asking.


Honestly I think the only result on VM that would be meaningful would be "no motion" because that makes his claim of receiving a message about kyeugh really weird.


----------



## Ottercopter

Doesn't look like this is actually necessary with the current numbers, but sure, *odie_pie.*


----------



## mewtini

i'm sorry in advance if i end up bonafide jumping wagons. i don't know what to think right now tbqh


----------



## Stryke

Man I'm on mobile so my thoughts will be abridged but basically what Eifie (I think?) said; I mostly have a null read w/ him. I like that he's been posting some reads though when he gets a chance


----------



## kyeugh

i don’t think people should vote odie as a stand in for abstaining tbh
the closer it comes to happening the more i’d rather it not lol


----------



## Stryke

Stryke said:


> Man I'm on mobile so my thoughts will be abridged but basically what Eifie (I think?) said; I mostly have a null read w/ him. I like that he's been posting some reads though when he gets a chance


For Keldeos question, ack


----------



## Ottercopter

Keldeo said:


> Honestly I think the only result on VM that would be meaningful would be "no motion" because that makes his claim of receiving a message about kyeugh really weird.


Ohhhhh, that's a good point! Do you think asking about the number of people who targetted VM would yield any useful info? Too vague?


----------



## Eifie




----------



## Keldeo

Stryke said:


> Man I'm on mobile so my thoughts will be abridged but basically what Eifie (I think?) said; I mostly have a null read w/ him. I like that he's been posting some reads though when he gets a chance


That's okay. Why vote on Odie? If you alone got to decide the lynch today / the current wagons weren't a factor, who would you go for?


----------



## rari_teh

Mawile said:


> I think the closest thing I can find to my role is a motion detector: basically I can choose a person and if they get targeted by a night action or if they use a night action themselves, I get notified. I haven't really gotten much out of it, unfortunately.





mewtini said:


> maybe i'm too trusting. motion detector doesn't sound like a made-up roleclaim


Doesn’t sound made-up, but it could be equally town or mafia


----------



## Keldeo

Ottercopter said:


> Ohhhhh, that's a good point! Do you think asking about the number of people who targetted VM would yield any useful info? Too vague?


Wait, Mawile, can you clarify what type of results you get? Based on the comparison to motion detector I thought it was just a yes or no.


----------



## Stryke

Keldeo said:


> That's okay. Why vote on Odie? If you alone got to decide the lynch today / the current wagons weren't a factor, who would you go for?


No idea. Sorry if it seems like I'm sheeping u Eifie, but I liked what u said that everyone seems towny enough that mafia Odie makes sense


----------



## rari_teh

So that’s what we’re doing? Lynching Odie?


----------



## Eifie

on one hand this is what I wanted and a lot of voters are people I think are not mafia and I doubt any mafia would want to defend mafia!Odie_pie anyway

on the other hand hmmm


----------



## kyeugh

Eifie said:


> on one hand this is what I wanted and a lot of voters are people I think are not mafia and I doubt any mafia would want to defend mafia!Odie_pie anyway
> 
> on the other hand hmmm


same


----------



## Stryke

Also I'm probably gonna be on mobile the rest of the day unfortunately so I won't be able to do many longposts or in depth thoughts on anyone


----------



## mewtini

*mawile* :( realized rari's right in re: motion detector. someone correct me if these counts are wrong please, i'm doing them speedily

(5) odie_pie: kokorico, Mawile, Herbe, Stryke, Ottercopter
(4) Mawile: Eifie, rari_teh, kyeugh, mewtini
(2) Stryke: IndigoEmmy, M&F
(1) Panini: Mist
(1) Mist1422: Panini


----------



## Eifie

kyeugh said:


> same


like that consolidated so much faster than any other wagon

is that just because it's the easiest vote to make

should i care
should i not care

?????????


----------



## mewtini

tbh q: why is panini still sitting on mist :T


----------



## Mawile

Keldeo said:


> Who did you target these first two nights? Would that be beneficial to say, do you think?


N0 was Herbe (just kinda picked at random, with 25 people on n0, I wasn't expecting much), and nothing happened.
N1 was VM, and I got that something happened.



Eifie said:


> it's unfortunate that Mawile's role claim is just also null haha


It's roleplaying?



Ottercopter said:


> Ohhhhh, that's a good point! Do you think asking about the number of people who targetted VM would yield any useful info? Too vague?


I basically just get something happened or nothing happened. No numbers, and I don't get information on whether the person left or if they got visited.


----------



## Keldeo

I don't want to vote anyone, can the mafia all reveal and we can hold hands and pet puppies and pick flowers



Eifie said:


> on one hand this is what I wanted and a lot of voters are people I think are not mafia and I doubt any mafia would want to defend mafia!Odie_pie anyway
> 
> on the other hand hmmm


Yeah, I don't really distrust anyone on the wagon. 

I think probably regardless of Odie's alignment the wagon could be a good hiding spot for a wolf but it's also entirely possible that the wagon is all villagers.


----------



## mewtini

Eifie said:


> is that just because it's the easiest vote to make


i think this is exactly why honestly. don't know if i believe it's any deeper than that


----------



## kyeugh

Eifie said:


> like that consolidated so much faster than any other wagon
> 
> is that just because it's the easiest vote to make
> 
> should i care
> should i not care
> 
> ?????????


mostly i keep thinking “man there are probably MULTIPLE wolves on there”
but like. also what i said before about scum not wanting odie dead


----------



## Panini

mewtini said:


> tbh q: why is panini still sitting on mist :T


I'm mulling it over.
I find the pile on a little unnerving too


----------



## kyeugh

Panini said:


> I'm mulling it over.
> I find the pile on a little unnerving too


go on mawile tbh


----------



## rari_teh

FWIW my independent speedcount is exactly the same as mewtini’s, so it’s probably right


----------



## Keldeo

@Herbe did you take an action on n0?





kyeugh said:


> mostly i keep thinking “man there are probably MULTIPLE wolves on there”
> but like. also what i said before about scum not wanting odie dead


Who would the wolves be iyo? I'm like... actually I don't actively feel awesome about anyone there but I like Otter and Herbe, and kinda kokorico idk. Not sure how to feel about Mawile and Stryke going for Odie.


----------



## mewtini

Keldeo said:


> Not sure how to feel about Mawile and Stryke going for Odie.


both of these guys are subjects of some sort of wagon, i think it makes sense that they'd go for the most neutral vote instead of pointing fingers at each other esp when they haven't interacted a lot inthread i think?


----------



## Eifie

Keldeo said:


> Not sure how to feel about Mawile and Stryke going for Odie.


I literally could try to just look but it's too much effort and I still have headache but
wasn't Stryke the leading wagon when Mawile voted Odie_pie?

@Mawile why did you vote Odie_pie instead of Stryke for self-preservation?


----------



## Panini

kyeugh said:


> go on mawile tbh


tbh that's science

*Mawile*


----------



## rari_teh

kyeugh said:


> but like. also what i said before about scum not wanting odie dead


If both Mawile and Stryke are mafia, they’d definitely want odie dead tbh


----------



## qenya

Keldeo said:


> Why for these bolded parts? I thought Stryke talked about some of his reads at length. I think I agree with your take on him below that, below.
> 
> What are your thoughts on Mawile vs. Stryke?


on you: tbh mostly I'm just second-guessing myself because the two people who agreed with me D1 are either dead (boq) or recanted (rari). Like I said, I have no actual new read-worthy info

on Stryke: he explained his thoughts on VM and Mist but not on rari, M&F or... the other person he said he was iffy about whose name briefly escapes me. Also he didn't make any attempt to counter mewtini's retort in support of VM

on Mawile vs. Stryke: actually tbh I found Mawile's defencepost earlier reasonably convincing. It was more "meh. yes, I have an excuse for being inactive, but I don't blame you for finding me scummy." than actually trying to make retorts against accusations - kinda would expect mafia!Mawile to be more vociferous. If they were the only options I would go for Stryke. But like I said I'm not 100% sold on that wagon either


----------



## Herbe

Keldeo said:


> @Herbe did you take an action on n0?


Nope, so that's fine at least. Wish VM was in the thread rn tho


----------



## Keldeo

If Odie is mafia, idek how mafia would treat her, actually. I think unless these wagons are w/w/w or something, which I highly doubt lol, probably they wouldn't bus her for no reason when there's someone else Right There and there are villagers getting cold feet on the Odie pile-on. And since she's so inactive, I doubt that we would just clear the whole wagon if she were to flip mafia. So those kind of eliminate the benefits of bussing.


----------



## mewtini

Herbe said:


> Nope, so that's fine at least. Wish VM was in the thread rn tho


@Vipera Magnifica hail mary


----------



## Panini

rari_teh said:


> If both Mawile and Stryke are mafia, they’d definitely want odie dead tbh


The and here is kind of big though

I don't think maybe we would have encountered earlier resistance if we were that on the ball


----------



## rari_teh

mewtini said:


> both of these guys are subjects of some sort of wagon, i think it makes sense that they'd go for the most neutral vote instead of pointing fingers at each other esp when they haven't interacted a lot inthread i think?


Idk. ILS and Otter pointed fingers to each other last night and now the consensus is that both are town?


----------



## mewtini

rari_teh said:


> Idk. ILS and Otter pointed fingers to each other last night and now the consensus is that both are town?


yeah but there was suspicion around them for pointing fingers
makes sense that mawile/stryke, two people who have been keeping track of thread/reading pretty regularly, would avoid that especially when odie is such an easy vote (almost akin to abstain) rn


----------



## Eifie

gdi my parents who have like barely ever made dinner for me in my life are calling me downstairs for dinner

excuse you guys i'm busy solving world politics


----------



## mewtini

i really really don't think an odie vote signifies alignment, and i dont think the pile-on matters. even if voting odie _shouldn't_ feel like a vote to abstain, it invariably does when odie hasn't shown up and none of us have talked to them

(5) odie_pie: kokorico, Mawile, Herbe, Stryke, Ottercopter
(5) Mawile: Eifie, rari_teh, kyeugh, mewtini, Panini
(2) Stryke: IndigoEmmy, M&F
(1) Panini: Mist
(1) Mist1422: Panini


----------



## Mawile

mewtini said:


> makes sense that mawile/stryke, two people who have been keeping track of thread/reading pretty regularly, would avoid that especially when odie is such an easy vote (almost akin to abstain) rn


To be fair, I would like to not die, and voting for Odie is my best shot at not dying right now.


----------



## Eifie

is Keldeo not voting

Keldeo stop this


----------



## kyeugh

Keldeo said:


> @Herbe did you take an action on n0?
> Who would the wolves be iyo? I'm like... actually I don't actively feel awesome about anyone there but I like Otter and Herbe, and kinda kokorico idk. Not sure how to feel about Mawile and Stryke going for Odie.


idk probably mawile/someone else? herbe or stryke? i don’t think otter/mawile are w/w bc if w!otter said that thing about mawile herring numbers from his power i don’t thiiink w!mawile would contradict it?


----------



## kyeugh

rari_teh said:


> If both Mawile and Stryke are mafia, they’d definitely want odie dead tbh


very good point


----------



## rari_teh

mewtini said:


> (5) Mawile: Eifie, rari_teh, kyeugh, mewtini, Panini
> (1) Mist1422: Panini


uh


----------



## Keldeo

I don't know who to vote.

*Mawile*? My towncore? I still don't feel 100% on the case. 



mewtini said:


> both of these guys are subjects of some sort of wagon, i think it makes sense that they'd go for the most neutral vote instead of pointing fingers at each other esp when they haven't interacted a lot inthread i think?


Why would that make sense?

I guess I would expect if exactly one of them is mafia, that person would have little preference between going after Odie and going after the other of the pair, just whichever had more traction, so that doesn't say much.

If both are mafia then it makes sense that they wouldn't want to go after each other of course, but I agree with Panini that that feels like... a little of a stretch just because they've both been up there.

I don't know how I feel about this.


----------



## mewtini

rari_teh said:


> uh


thanks!

(5) odie_pie: kokorico, Mawile, Herbe, Stryke, Ottercopter
(5) Mawile: Eifie, rari_teh, kyeugh, mewtini, Keldeo
(2) Stryke: IndigoEmmy, M&F
(1) Panini: Mist
(1) Mist1422: Panini


----------



## kyeugh

Eifie said:


> @Mawile why did you vote Odie_pie instead of Stryke for self-preservation?


this too man


----------



## Keldeo

Keldeo said:


> I don't know who to vote.
> 
> *Mawile*? My towncore?


...The above is not saying I would vote my towncore, it is saying that a lot of people I trust are on mawile, lol


----------



## Ottercopter

Okay, so if Mawile somehow lives, do we have any suggestions who he should target? Just in case?


----------



## Eifie

Keldeo said:


> ...The above is not saying I would vote my towncore, it is saying that a lot of people I trust are on mawile, lol


vote me coward


----------



## Keldeo

Ottercopter said:


> Okay, so if Mawile somehow lives, do we have any suggestions who he should target? Just in case?


No clue... whoever he fees like? I think motion detector is pretty weak in terms of giving actionable results, especially in role madness, unless it's late game.


----------



## rari_teh

Mawile said:


> To be fair, I would like to not die, and voting for Odie is my best shot at not dying right now.


Yeah, but when you voted on Odie_Pie, Stryke was the largest wagon


----------



## Eifie

mewtini said:


> thanks!
> 
> (5) odie_pie: kokorico, Mawile, Herbe, Stryke, Ottercopter
> (5) Mawile: Eifie, rari_teh, kyeugh, mewtini, Keldeo
> (2) Stryke: IndigoEmmy, M&F
> (1) Panini: Mist
> (1) Mist1422: Panini


Panini moved to Mawile


----------



## Mawile

kyeugh said:


> this too man


Because voting for Stryke would make the wagons unbalanced right now and would cause my death?


----------



## mewtini

Keldeo said:


> Why would that make sense?
> 
> I guess I would expect if exactly one of them is mafia, that person would have little preference between going after Odie and going after the other of the pair, just whichever had more traction, so that doesn't say much.
> 
> If both are mafia then it makes sense that they wouldn't want to go after each other of course, but I agree with Panini that that feels like... a little of a stretch just because they've both been up there.
> 
> I don't know how I feel about this.


i don't really know honestly. i kind of just threw that out and didn't check on what the leading wagons were at the time of the vote; odie rn is their best bet so i implicitly factored that in but i didn't look at the circumstances at Mawile/Stryke's voting times


----------



## Panini

mewtini said:


> thanks!
> 
> (5) odie_pie: kokorico, Mawile, Herbe, Stryke, Ottercopter
> (5) Mawile: Eifie, rari_teh, kyeugh, mewtini, Keldeo
> (2) Stryke: IndigoEmmy, M&F
> (1) Panini: Mist
> (1) Mist1422: Panini


Uh the opposite actually,

(5) odie_pie: kokorico, Mawile, Herbe, Stryke, Ottercopter
(6) Mawile: Eifie, rari_teh, kyeugh, mewtini, Keldeo, Panini
(2) Stryke: IndigoEmmy, M&F
(1) Panini: Mist


----------



## Eifie

i'm scared


----------



## mewtini

Eifie said:


> Panini moved to Mawile


ty

(6) Mawile: Eifie, rari_teh, kyeugh, mewtini, Keldeo, Panini
(5) odie_pie: kokorico, Mawile, Herbe, Stryke, Ottercopter
(2) Stryke: IndigoEmmy, M&F
(1) Panini: Mist


----------



## Keldeo

kyeugh said:


> idk probably mawile/someone else? herbe or stryke? i don’t think otter/mawile are w/w bc if w!otter said that thing about mawile herring numbers from his power i don’t thiiink w!mawile would contradict it?


I agree on the latter part, but it goes the other direction for me - I would expect them to have planned the claim better probably, i.e. Otter wouldn't have had the assumption about numbers / asked Mawile to provide it if he couldn't provide, vs. Mawile probably would provide it if he could provide


----------



## Eifie

Mawile said:


> Because voting for Stryke would make the wagons unbalanced right now and would cause my death?


When you made your vote, Stryke had like 4 votes and Odie_pie only had like 1 or 2.


----------



## kyeugh

Mawile said:


> Because voting for Stryke would make the wagons unbalanced right now and would cause my death?


 not taking about right now


----------



## Mawile

Eifie said:


> i'm scared


----------



## Eifie

fwiw I expect mafia chat to not be very coordinated

I think people always expect mafia chat to be more on the ball than it is


----------



## kyeugh

kyeugh said:


> not taking about right now


* talking, even


----------



## Keldeo

Mawile, what are your thoughts on Stryke? What do you make of him going for Odie instead of you?


----------



## Keldeo

Wait Panini, what happened to your read that Mawile was genuine / felt uninformed, again?


----------



## Panini

Keldeo said:


> Wait Panini, what happened to your read that Mawile was genuine / felt uninformed, again?


It's still there
I just
If it's Odie/Mawile/Stryke I'm not passionate about any of it so I'm mostly responding to movement with movement


----------



## Keldeo

Also, Panini, what are your thoughts on the odie pile-on? You've been like, present but kind of... low words/opinions on actual thread goings-on for what I would expect from you idk. Feel free to let me know if my expectations are unwarranted.


----------



## kyeugh

am i missing something or is “why didn’t you vote for stryke” “the wagons are currently unbalanced” weird


----------



## Eifie

Eifie said:


> When you made your vote, Stryke had like 4 votes and Odie_pie only had like 1 or 2.


@Mawile answer pls?


----------



## Keldeo

Yeah, I feel like no one feels passionate about anything this EOD. :|

I almost feel like because of that, if anyone who is currently a wagon is mafia, their partners are not present?


----------



## Mawile

My thoughts on Stryke are the following: I kind of agree with him on VM potentially being suspicious, as it seems like A Lot of weirdness has happened to VM especially with regards to him just jumping in the thread to throw us off conversation a lot, and I feel that's a valuable opinion to have, when everyone (including me) is just asuming that VM did get White Mage.

I don't really know, my notes on him aren't super long. My death is coming up soon, so I don't really have a lot of time to go and research again.


----------



## mewtini

Mawile said:


> My death is coming up soon, so I don't really have a lot of time to go and research again.


bro it's not though. if anyone moves to odie you're safe


----------



## rari_teh

kyeugh said:


> am i missing something or is “why didn’t you vote for stryke” “the wagons are currently unbalanced” weird


Very weird

This is the vote progression:


Spoiler



Keldeo > Ottercopter #1488
Keldeo > void #1550
Eifie > Panini #1577
Keldeo > Panini #1882
Mist1422 > Panini #1940
Herbe > serimachi #2001
Eifie > void #2101
Keldeo > void #2131
Herbe > void #2155
Eifie > Mawile #2177
Herbe > serimachi #2179
M&F > Keldeo #2210
rari_teh > Mawile #2215
IndigoEmmy > Mawile #2216
Herbe > void #2251
Herbe > Stryke #2259
IndigoEmmy > Stryke #2261
M&F > Stryke #2311
Panini > Mist1422 #2356
kokorico > serimachi #2357
kyeugh > Odie_Pie #2404
mewtini > Mawile #2407
kokorico > Odie_Pie #2429
Mawile > Odie_Pie #2434
mewtini > Stryke #2435
Herbe > Odie_Pie #2436
kyeugh > Mawile #2439
Stryke > Odie_Pie #2441
mewtini > Odie_Pie #2446
Ottercopter > Odie_Pie #2451
mewtini > Mawile #2466
Panini > Mawile #2479
Keldeo > Mawile #2495



Note how pretty much every Odie vote came after Mawile’s

I was feeling kinda uneasy about voting on Mawile, but now I’m feeling better tbh


----------



## Eifie

aaaaaaa aa


----------



## Mawile

kyeugh said:


> am i missing something or is “why didn’t you vote for stryke” “the wagons are currently unbalanced” weird


I don't even remember what the vote counts were when I voted tbh


----------



## Herbe

I'd feel better about someone investigating Mawile tonight and letting him live for another day tbh


----------



## Mawile

I am experiencing Stress


----------



## kyeugh

i feel increasingly good about this lynch but like i felt that way last time lole
no claim incoming though. hmmmmm


----------



## mewtini

Herbe said:


> I'd feel better about someone investigating Mawile tonight and letting him live for another day tbh


how strongly do you feel about this? i am maybe open to moving but am very uneasy about everything


----------



## Keldeo

and/or there are multiple mafia wagons and the mafia don't feel like they have the sway to change it, I guess?? This feels like a weird read on the situation but I don't know why.

Don't give up Mawile! There are 10 minutes left! Leave a legacy of gut feels even if you don't have time to do research?


----------



## mewtini

kyeugh said:


> i feel increasingly good about this lynch but like i felt that way last time lole
> no claim incoming though. hmmmmm


he did claim motion detector earlier, if that was true idk what else he could claim


----------



## kyeugh

i really think this is substantially better than odie rn


----------



## Panini

Keldeo said:


> Also, Panini, what are your thoughts on the odie pile-on? You've been like, present but kind of... low words/opinions on actual thread goings-on for what I would expect from you idk. Feel free to let me know if my expectations are unwarranted.


I think maybe the thing about it being fine because a lot of people have openly said that they acknowledge it to be the least difficult wagon and I kind of think most? Of it is people who I slotted into pure feeling townies so I kind of want to trust it
on the other hand sudden upshoots onto the easy option and away from people we've been talking about all day make me :S

I don't know what you mean by not what you'd expect from me because I'm always bad at coping at EOD (Hence Invitational thing I will never live down)


----------



## kyeugh

mewtini said:


> he did claim motion detector earlier, if that was true idk what else he could claim


that’s what i’m saying. last time i felt good until the claim; there is no claim on the way this time


----------



## mewtini

kyeugh said:


> i really think this is substantially better than odie rn


yeah i agree, but if anyone has strong reasons for someone to switch wagons and let mawile Live Another Day they have just enough time to compile it now ;(


----------



## Herbe

mewtini said:


> how strongly do you feel about this? i am maybe open to moving but am very uneasy about everything


Quite strongly. Please move :( Maybe its just because mawile read me correctly but yeah. I don't want to mislynch a town inforole


----------



## Eifie

@M&F are you here


----------



## mewtini

Herbe said:


> Quite strongly. Please move :( Maybe its just because mawile read me correctly but yeah. I don't want to mislynch a town inforole


herbe my boy ... you're killing me

someone correct me: is a town motion detector the hugest loss even if we fuck this one up?


----------



## Mawile

I WILL MOTION DETECT ANYONE TOMORROW NIGHT AND SOMEONE CAN DIRECTLY FACT CHECK ME


----------



## Herbe

I don't think M&F is online

@mewtini I would be happy if you would unvote and just let it rand at least


----------



## Eifie

mewtini said:


> herbe my boy ... you're killing me
> 
> someone correct me: is a town motion detector the hugest loss even if we fuck this one up?


motion detector tends to be a pretty useless role in most situations

however if we mislynch here I'll feel like today was just useless


----------



## mewtini

Mawile said:


> I WILL MOTION DETECT ANYONE TOMORROW NIGHT AND SOMEONE CAN DIRECTLY FACT CHECK ME


i feel. strange


----------



## rari_teh

Mawile said:


> I WILL MOTION DETECT ANYONE TOMORROW NIGHT AND SOMEONE CAN DIRECTLY FACT CHECK ME


"Quick, mafia chum! Raise your hand and ask to be motion-detected by me!"


----------



## kyeugh

mewtini said:


> herbe my boy ... you're killing me
> 
> someone correct me: is a town motion detector the hugest loss even if we fuck this one up?


i mean no tbh
also why should we... out cop for this
mawile/herbe lovers desu!?!?!?!?


----------



## Keldeo

I don't really understand the 0 to 60 urgency there :<


----------



## Negrek

Tch. I don't particularly like voting Odie_Pie and don't see much utility in them getting lynched, but I'm also super not feeling a Mawile lynch, so *Odie_Pie*

Apologies for not doing much at all today. I'll do my best to be more on the ball next go-round.


----------



## mewtini

kyeugh said:


> also why should we... out cop for this
> mawile/herbe lovers desu!?!?!?!?


tbh agree with both :(


Herbe said:


> @mewtini I would be happy if you would unvote and just let it rand at least


i'm sorry herbe. please forgive me


----------



## Mawile

It doesn't need to be cop! Just anyone with a night action or who can be targeted by one!!


----------



## kyeugh

Negrek said:


> Tch. I don't particularly like voting Odie_Pie and don't see much utility in them getting lynched, but I'm also super not feeling a Mawile lynch, so *Odie_Pie*
> 
> Apologies for not doing much at all today. I'll do my best to be more on the ball next go-round.


i am no longer vibing


----------



## Herbe

if we do what mawile suggests then I think Eif is the best candidate since most ppl townlock her


----------



## rari_teh

mewtini said:


> someone correct me: is a town motion detector the hugest loss even if we fuck this one up?


no tbh


----------



## mewtini

ope. randtime?
not a negrek eod vote fan rn

(6) Mawile: Eifie, rari_teh, kyeugh, mewtini, Keldeo, Panini
(6) odie_pie: kokorico, Mawile, Herbe, Stryke, Ottercopter, Negrek
(2) Stryke: IndigoEmmy, M&F
(1) Panini: Mist


----------



## Herbe

mewtini said:


> i'm sorry herbe. please forgive me


No irl hard feelings, we're still pals


----------



## kyeugh

bruh if we lynch odie im gonna go sicko mode


----------



## Butterfree

End of the day is postponed a bit by virtue of "I only just got back online and I've got like fifteen pages to go through", please carry on for now


----------



## mewtini

i feel really bad about mawile's 0 to 100


----------



## Eifie

gdi i could've gone to eat dinner

now it'll be cold


----------



## kyeugh

thank you lord


----------



## Mawile

mewtini said:


> i feel really bad about mawile's 0 to 100


Sorry am just stressed


----------



## Keldeo

Uhhhh.

If Mawile is mafia I think this means there are no wolves on his wagon.

I still... think Negrek is town because of her claim though.


----------



## mewtini

Mawile said:


> Sorry am just stressed


i'm sorry bro. we're still homies


----------



## Eifie

yeah Mawile we're bros 4 lyf ok!!!


----------



## Ottercopter

Herbe said:


> I'd feel better about someone investigating Mawile tonight and letting him live for another day tbh


I understand the principle, but I dunno how the risk/reward balance would go for theoretically outing someone who could prove Mawile's innocence. It's day 3 and there's still so many players. Revealing a cop so early with only three investigations and maybe one find (theoretically) would be preeeeeeeetty dangerous. ...Which I feel like other people must have said in the time it took for me to think of how to word this, lol.


----------



## kyeugh

i want to read stress about being lynched as wolfy but then forcibly remember when i got mad at being lynched as town two games in a row


----------



## Keldeo

Mawile said:


> Sorry am just stressed


I'm sorry :(

If you could decide the day's lynch and the current wagons were not a factor, who would you vote?


----------



## mewtini

on the other hand tbh is everyone on odie wagon very certain that randomized vote is what they truly want


----------



## Ottercopter

*It will only  be day 3 by then.


----------



## Herbe

fair otter but also he could just like?? watch a locktown tonight and see if info corroborates?


----------



## kyeugh

Ottercopter said:


> I understand the principle, but I dunno how the risk/reward balance would go for theoretically outing someone who could prove Mawile's innocence. It's day 3 and there's still so many players. Revealing a cop so early with only three investigations and maybe one find (theoretically) would be preeeeeeeetty dangerous. ...Which I feel like other people must have said in the time it took for me to think of how to word this, lol.


aren’t you voting odie? pls move tbh


----------



## Keldeo

Herbe said:


> fair otter but also he could just like?? watch a locktown tonight and see if info corroborates?


Are you thinking that if his role is true, he is town? Because I feel like it's maybe a bit more likely town because it's super weak on mafia, but it isn't like inherently towny.


----------



## Eifie

Herbe said:


> fair otter but also he could just like?? watch a locktown tonight and see if info corroborates?


one thing is that the person watched can claim if they did/didn't do anything but they don't know if they were visited

also I think he's telling the truth about his role but not sure if that necessarily means he's town


----------



## Herbe

Keldeo said:


> Are you thinking that if his role is true, he is town? Because I feel like it's maybe a bit more likely town because it's super weak on mafia, but it isn't like inherently towny.


i don't really see much mafia!use for his role tbh. i guess i was assuming that if it was true, he'd be town


----------



## mewtini

Herbe said:


> i don't really see much mafia!use for his role tbh. i guess i was assuming that if it was true, he'd be town


even if mawile is town
outing a cop to find that out is NOT an even trade


----------



## Eifie

Herbe said:


> i don't really see much mafia!use for his role tbh. i guess i was assuming that if it was true, he'd be town


yeah I'm trying to work through this

idfk


----------



## rari_teh

Herbe said:


> i don't really see much mafia!use for his role tbh. i guess i was assuming that if it was true, he'd be town


Mafia!use = is the don being spied on by cops?


----------



## mewtini

@Ottercopter please move tbh....


----------



## Keldeo

Eifie, how do you feel about Panini's posting this EOD?


----------



## Ottercopter

kyeugh said:


> aren’t you voting odie? pls move tbh


All right. *Mawile.*
(I know being pressured to do this isn't the best look, but hopefully people have decided on how they feel about me by now?)


----------



## Eifie

Keldeo said:


> Eifie, how do you feel about Panini's posting this EOD?


rrrrr
like off the top of my head I kinda like it but that's because she agrees with me lol


----------



## rari_teh

I don’t see any town!use to that actually, but it kinda also sounds like the gimmicky stuff some townies get?


----------



## Negrek

Yes, motion detector would be a weird power for the mafia. And Mawile is pretty much forced to claim an action every day now, which means that if he is mafia, which I think unlikely, he'd probably end up outing himself pretty fast.


----------



## Herbe

mewtini said:


> even if mawile is town
> outing a cop to find that out is NOT an even trade


that's true, that ideas bust. But he offered to watch someone thats town and see if they did anything/anyone visited them.


----------



## Mawile

Ottercopter said:


> I understand the principle, but I dunno how the risk/reward balance would go for theoretically outing someone who could prove Mawile's innocence.


It's why I'd like a few people to agree on one person for me to motion detect instead of having just one person pick.



Keldeo said:


> I'm sorry :(
> 
> If you could decide the day's lynch and the current wagons were not a factor, who would you vote?


coming up soon


----------



## mewtini

(7) Mawile: Eifie, rari_teh, kyeugh, mewtini, Keldeo, Panini, Ottercopter
(5) odie_pie: kokorico, Mawile, Herbe, Stryke, Negrek
(2) Stryke: IndigoEmmy, M&F
(1) Panini: Mist


----------



## Keldeo

I think the best mafia use of motion detector is to determine if a townie has a night action

So Mawile targeting Herbe n0 kind of makes me think that they're not w/w, which intersects weirdly with Herbe's defense of him now. I guess if he was mafia he could just have lied about his target, idk.


----------



## rari_teh

Ottercopter said:


> (I know being pressured to do this isn't the best look, but hopefully people have decided on how they feel about me by now?)


You’ve been upped to my Amorphous Blob/likely town tbh
Not only because of this move, mind you


----------



## mewtini

Herbe said:


> that's true, that ideas bust. But he offered to watch someone thats town and see if they did anything/anyone visited them.


even if mawile doesnt get lynched, people will still bring him back up bc they feel weird about him and the only way to put that to rest would be to check/investigate him somehow i feel like?


----------



## kyeugh

i feel like i never understand negrek’s votes or reasoning and would definitely be scum reading them if not for the role


----------



## Eifie

kyeugh said:


> i feel like i never understand negrek’s votes or reasoning and would definitely be scum reading them if not for the role


I think it's probably just a fundamentally different play style


----------



## Keldeo

I feel like my neutral feels on Mawile have changed from "I am not strongly swayed by much" to "I am swayed in two different directions by different things" in the span of like this hour


----------



## mewtini

Eifie said:


> I think it's probably just a fundamentally different play style


along with neg's snipervoting? she's voted pretty close to EoD amid chaos both times now

anyway this doesnt matter ig


----------



## Eifie

mewtini said:


> along with neg's snipervoting? she's voted pretty close to EoD amid chaos both times now
> 
> anyway this doesnt matter ig


the last time wasn't that close to eod iirc? like still 30-40 minutes left


----------



## rari_teh

Negrek said:


> Yes, motion detector would be a weird power for the mafia. And Mawile is pretty much forced to claim an action every day now, which means that if he is mafia, which I think unlikely, he'd probably end up outing himself pretty fast.


It’s very easy to lie about these results, though. Just say “yes movement”, if the person didn’t do nothing, claim somebody else did something to them


----------



## mewtini

Eifie said:


> the last time wasn't that close to eod iirc? like still 30-40 minutes left


misremembered honestly, ty. i got skewed because she hadn't appeared in thread recently (like she did earlier today at least)


----------



## Keldeo

@Stryke Hi, are you still here? Do you have any thoughts on whether Mawile's claim makes him town?


----------



## Eifie

will kyeugh hate me if I move


----------



## rari_teh

kyeugh said:


> i feel like i never understand negrek’s votes or reasoning and would definitely be scum reading them if not for the role


Same tbh


----------



## mewtini

Eifie said:


> will kyeugh hate me if I move


me and kyeugh tbh :(


----------



## Negrek

mewtini said:


> along with neg's snipervoting? she's voted pretty close to EoD amid chaos both times now
> 
> anyway this doesnt matter ig


I didn't want to vote at all today, but since I don't particularly want Mawile to die, and the vote was close, I figured I could at least try to prevent it.

Sorry if that made everyone more suspicious and want to switch to you, Mawile. =/


----------



## mewtini

Negrek said:


> I didn't want to vote at all today, but since I don't particularly want Mawile to die, and the vote was close, I figured I could at least try to prevent it.
> 
> Sorry if that made everyone more suspicious and want to switch to you, Mawile. =/


sorry if i sounded overly accusatory tbh. i did just remember wrong


----------



## kyeugh

Eifie said:


> I think it's probably just a fundamentally different play style


is it? last time it was “the votes are equal in information yield (false imo) but one is participating” and now it’s just outright voting for the guy who will yield zero information on flipping
idk


----------



## Mawile

Keldeo said:


> I'm sorry :(
> 
> If you could decide the day's lynch and the current wagons were not a factor, who would you vote?


I haven't been taking the best notes for d2, but I feel that I would still vote for an inactive because it doesn't make sense to me to keep around someone who isn't talking, rather than someone who's actively participating. So probably serimachi or Odie, but at least serimachi has at least posted a couple times.


----------



## Stryke

Keldeo said:


> @Stryke Hi, are you still here? Do you have any thoughts on whether Mawile's claim makes him town?


Not particularly. It sounds like a gimmicky town role, but other people have also pointed out how it could mafia, so I have no clue


----------



## Eifie

kyeugh said:


> is it? last time it was “the votes are equal in information yield (false imo) but one is participating” and now it’s just outright voting for the guy who will yield zero information on flipping
> idk


I think Negrek just pretty much doesn't do day play whatsoever


----------



## kyeugh

Eifie said:


> will kyeugh hate me if I move


i will simply hate your action.


----------



## mewtini

kyeugh said:


> is it? last time it was “the votes are equal in information yield (false imo) but one is participating” and now it’s just outright voting for the guy who will yield zero information on flipping
> idk


this is kinda the heart of my badly-written longpost about neg earlier, i feel like it reads as obtuse voting to me sometimes. but maybe i just don't get it


----------



## Negrek

kyeugh said:


> is it? last time it was “the votes are equal in information yield (false imo) but one is participating” and now it’s just outright voting for the guy who will yield zero information on flipping
> idk


Not my position at all. I can try to explain again if you want, but I'm not sure how much time we have? Or what good it would do, like Eifie says I think we must just approach this entirely differently.


----------



## kyeugh

yeah, it’s nbd, you still have your role going for you. i just really don’t get it tbh.


----------



## Eifie

@kyeugh @mewtini

if Mawile flips innocent, what would you conclude from these wagons?

I feel like there's no value at all if he flips town and I'm starting to get cold feet and wah


----------



## Herbe

Hardclaim Lovers with Mawile.
My role is basically that whoever targeted me N0 (or whoever targeted me first) got stuck in my honeypot and became my lover.

That's why I kinda seem desparate. :(((((


----------



## Eifie

Herbe said:


> Hardclaim Lovers with Mawile.
> My role is basically that whoever targeted me N0 (or whoever targeted me first) got stuck in my honeypot and became my lover.
> 
> That's why I kinda seem desparate. :(((((


*Odie_pie*


----------



## Keldeo

Wait kyeugh I don't get the narrative of Negrek and Mawile being w/w with Negrek making this really visible vote to save them. Do you think that's what's going on? I think it's pretty transparent that Negrek is making the vote because she's townreading / professing to townreading Mawile, not because of like the perceived information gain from the vOdie vote

This EOD feels super non-urgent even though the wagons are really close and I don't know why that is. The people who are the wagons are all kind of floaty and I'm blah


----------



## Ottercopter

*Odie_pie*


----------



## Negrek

what a twist!


----------



## Herbe

I'm so stressed right now oh my God


----------



## Panini

I feel nauseuous
I don't want it to rand but I'm worried I'm wrong


----------



## kyeugh

Eifie said:


> @kyeugh @mewtini
> 
> if Mawile flips innocent, what would you conclude from these wagons?
> 
> I feel like there's no value at all if he flips town and I'm starting to get cold feet and wah


we’ll have his wagon to look for one thing as well as this eod


----------



## Keldeo

Oh gdi I'm sorry.

*Odie_pie*

@Herbe did you guys get outside thread communication? Have you talked about his role at all?


----------



## Negrek

Keldeo said:


> think it's pretty transparent that Negrek is making the vote because she's townreading / professing to townreading Mawile, not because of like the perceived information gain from the vOdie vote


BINGO


----------



## Panini

Herbe said:


> Hardclaim Lovers with Mawile.
> My role is basically that whoever targeted me N0 (or whoever targeted me first) got stuck in my honeypot and became my lover.
> 
> That's why I kinda seem desparate. :(((((


dfhgdfs

*Odie*


----------



## Eifie

kyeugh said:


> we’ll have his wagon to look for one thing as well as this eod


people always say that stuff but I think a lot of the time it's just too nebulous


----------



## Mawile

Herbe said:


> That's why I kinda seem desparate. :(((((


am sorry ;-;


----------



## mewtini

ope
*odie*


----------



## kyeugh

Keldeo said:


> Wait kyeugh I don't get the narrative of Negrek and Mawile being w/w with Negrek making this really visible vote to save them. Do you think that's what's going on? I think it's pretty transparent that Negrek is making the vote because she's townreading / professing to townreading Mawile, not because of like the perceived information gain from the vOdie vote


i don’t think they’re ww, i just find it weird


----------



## Ottercopter

Okay, so again, any suggestions as to who Mawile watches tonight? Even if it's not a super useful role, it's still one that we should get as much out of as we can, right?


----------



## Eifie

I'm sad Herbe claimed before I could make my spicy switch and invoke ire tbh

I've been planning it for like half an hour


----------



## kyeugh

?? why did mawile not say anything about this


----------



## Eifie

@Herbe was Mawile's alignment ever told to you?


----------



## Keldeo

Ick I kind of think Odie flips town now because it was so close (but like Eifie said idk if mafia would defend lol)

imo the loverizing doesn't mean Mawile is 100% clear, since it was an effect of Herbe's role, but I don't want to kill Herbe too. And I think knowing that explains some of Mawile's shifts this EOD that I thought were strange


----------



## Eifie

Keldeo said:


> imo the loverizing doesn't mean Mawile is 100% clear, since it was an effect of Herbe's role, but I don't want to kill Herbe too. And I think knowing that explains some of Mawile's shifts this EOD that I thought were strange


basically my thoughts


----------



## Keldeo

kyeugh said:


> ?? why did mawile not say anything about this


I mean I think it makes his weird shift to focusing on self-preservation near the end here make more sense


----------



## qenya

Ottercopter said:


> Okay, so again, any suggestions as to who Mawile watches tonight? Even if it's not a super useful role, it's still one that we should get as much out of as we can, right?


Imo: Someone who we haven't really paid much attention to. That lessens the chance he will accidentally pick up someone else targetting his target, iyswim.

For the same reason he/we probably shouldn't announce his target before eod


----------



## rari_teh

Why not Stryke y’all???


----------



## kyeugh

my instinct is really not to believe this tbh


----------



## mewtini

Keldeo said:


> Ick I kind of think Odie flips town now because it was so close (but like Eifie said idk if mafia would defend lol)
> 
> imo the loverizing doesn't mean Mawile is 100% clear, since it was an effect of Herbe's role, but I don't want to kill Herbe too. And I think knowing that explains some of Mawile's shifts this EOD that I thought were strange


agree tbh. kind of switched votes since being on mawile does nothing now


----------



## Herbe

Keldeo said:


> @Herbe did you guys get outside thread communication? Have you talked about his role at all?


Yes, he's town, I got his role alignment and he told me his role


----------



## mewtini

rari_teh said:


> Why not Stryke y’all???


tbh..... i moved votes bc being on mawile does nothing but i'll vote again in case this switch happens lol. i don't want to kill herbe. 

bluh 
*stryke*


----------



## kyeugh

Keldeo said:


> I mean I think it makes his weird shift to focusing on self-preservation near the end here make more sense


i think it also makes perfect sense if they’re w/w


----------



## Keldeo

Mawile said:


> Herbe gives me mild weirdness (not necessarily suspicion). It's just kind of a bit weird to me that he focused so hard on giving an opinion about mewtini with quoted posts to give exact evidence and hasn't even really mentioned much about other people? It could just be an oversight on his end, but I still find it odd. Out of the three, though, Herbe gives me the least level of caution in comparison and would therefore go to the "probably town" amorphous blob, unless he manages to post something that gives me bad feelings.


hum


----------



## Negrek

Ottercopter said:


> Okay, so again, any suggestions as to who Mawile watches tonight? Even if it's not a super useful role, it's still one that we should get as much out of as we can, right?


I would want more time to think about this, but my gut is that Mawile should go with what he feels like. If there's a plan ahead of time it feels like it would be too easy to disrupt, while if Mawile does what he wants he's either going to a) screw up if mafia or b) potentially uncover something by accident. It's not an easy role to work with in terms of information content, unfortunately.


----------



## Eifie

kyeugh said:


> my instinct is really not to believe this tbh


I think Herbe is town though :(

I think the usual way lovers work is that the lover either takes on the other person's alignment, or they become like third-party but if the other person was mafia they're still in mafia chat and can pass things on to the lover


----------



## rari_teh

Fuck it, my wagon is dead. *Stryke*


----------



## Eifie

I want to give herbe a day tm


----------



## Herbe

I would love to see what the votecounts are right now tbh


----------



## qenya

Negrek said:


> I would want more time to think about this, but my gut is that Mawile should go with what he feels like. If there's a plan ahead of time it feels like it would be too easy to disrupt, while if Mawile does what he wants he's either going to a) screw up if mafia or b) potentially uncover something by accident. It's not an easy role to work with in terms of information content, unfortunately.


yes tbh this is basically what I was trying to say but more eloquent


----------



## Negrek

Keldeo said:


> hum


How on earth did you find that so fast, but also, yeah, that's a hmm.


----------



## Herbe

We didn't want to make it obvious!lovers before we had to, but here we are. ughhhhh lmao


----------



## Mawile

I'm just gonna go lay down for a bit if thats ok with people


----------



## Panini

kyeugh said:


> my instinct is really not to believe this tbh


If it was just Mawile I'd have more hangups but I get good vibes from Herbe and kind of trust him enough to be like

Not okay with chancing it


----------



## rari_teh

I lost track of the votes. Odie is definitely in front, only qva is voting Mawile.


----------



## Negrek

Oh way to not quote the relevant bit


----------



## Mawile

Negrek said:


> How on earth did you find that so fast, but also, yeah, that's a hmm.


I'm still allowed to say that it's weird that he latched on so hard to mewtini lol


----------



## Eifie

Mawile said:


> I'm still allowed to say that it's weird that he latched on so hard to mewtini lol


was someone jealous


----------



## Keldeo

Having trouble processing rn but I think "targeted me first so he became my lover" is pretty out there as a defense intersecting with Mawile's claim if they were both originally wolves (also motion detector makes sense to go first in order of night actions), which I think makes Herbe >rand to be originally town and telling the truth about at least his role

Could still be that Herbe was secretly converted to become mafia / get the mafia win condition because he loverized a mafia, but then I fall back on my townlean on him originally, because he would essentially have been converted for the entirety of the game 



Eifie said:


> I want to give herbe a day tm


So basically this


----------



## Herbe

i did kinda start lovers!cheating on you with rari and mewtini lmao


----------



## rari_teh

What Could Have Been if Butterfree didn’t need an extension…


----------



## mewtini

(1) Mawile: kyeugh
(8) odie_pie: kokorico, Mawile, Herbe, Stryke, Negrek, Eifie, Ottercopter, Keldeo, Panini
(4) Stryke: IndigoEmmy, M&F, mewtini, rari_teh
(1) Panini: Mist

something like this, didnt feel like reordering


----------



## Eifie

one like = one prayer that odie_pie will flip mafia and we can all live happily ever after


----------



## kyeugh

man i’m sorry i’m having a hard time understanding how otter’s claim was read as a mafia ploy but this is fine


----------



## Eifie

kyeugh said:


> man i’m sorry i’m having a hard time understanding how otter’s claim was read as a mafia ploy but this is fine


because we all trust Herbe, I think


----------



## mewtini

kyeugh said:


> man i’m sorry i’m having a hard time understanding how otter’s claim was read as a mafia ploy but this is fine


herbe pocketed us all by being a Good Boy and Friend for several dozen threads, and the ottercase ramped up too suddenly for anyone to know wtf was happening


----------



## Eifie

I never thought Ottercopter's claim was a mafia ploy anyway, get on my level   

(inb4 she dies at night and flips mafia)


----------



## Herbe

kyeugh said:


> man i’m sorry i’m having a hard time understanding how otter’s claim was read as a mafia ploy but this is fine


I would not be sticking my neck out this damn far if this was mafia!herbe about to lose fellowmafia!mawile tbh. There is no incentive here, it would be too big a risk


----------



## Keldeo

Wait, so clarify for me how the information exchange went? Herbe and Mawile, were you provided information about each other's roles immediately, or did you tell each other, or?


----------



## Negrek

I just think motion detector is a shit claim for mafia, and if they're lying we'll figure it out pretty fast. Plus I had never been convinced of Mawile being suspicious in the first place.


----------



## Keldeo

Eifie said:


> because we all trust Herbe, I think


/ Herbe would be squandering this cred entirely if anything ended up contradicting either of their claims


----------



## mewtini

Herbe said:


> I would not be sticking my neck out this damn far if this was mafia!herbe about to lose fellowmafia!mawile tbh. There is no incentive here, it would be too big a risk


this is also why i'm even more inclined to trust herbe tbh. lovers claim makes sense, even if they hadn't been super tight inthread earlier

also even though i know mawile was weird about herbe #supporting me in all my #endeavors, mawile also townread me early on too which makes me think they're not ultraopposed or split on one person anyway


----------



## Herbe

Keldeo said:


> Wait, so clarify for me how the information exchange went? Herbe and Mawile, were you provided information about each other's roles immediately, or did you tell each other, or?


So basically at the end of N0 Bfree told me that I found a catch! And that his alignment was town. Private comm was opened, and we talked about our roles from there.


----------



## kyeugh

this is still really fast!! idk i guess i haven’t been getting the same herbe vibes as y’all except for that one post but man i do not like how the lynch i felt secure in claims lovers with someone i feel meh about at the last second and everyone flakes off


Herbe said:


> I would not be sticking my neck out this damn far if this was mafia!herbe about to lose fellowmafia!mawile tbh. There is no incentive here, it would be too big a risk


how would this be a risk for scum!you?


----------



## mewtini

also the info exchange as described would take too long to lie about right now imo


----------



## Keldeo

kokorico, sorry but I see you liking stuff, can I get a textual summary of your thoughts on the whole situation?


----------



## Eifie

kyeugh said:


> this is still really fast!! idk i guess i haven’t been getting the same herbe vibes as y’all except for that one post but man i do not like how the lynch i felt secure in claims lovers with someone i feel meh about at the last second and everyone flakes off


I was already going to switch, if it helps :p


----------



## kyeugh

Eifie said:


> I was already going to switch, if it helps :p


----------



## Eifie

I feel like it's probably ok for me to just go and eat my lukewarm dinner

maybe I'll take my phone with me but idk if I'll look at it, I have a personal rule of no phones at the dinner table


----------



## rari_teh

Wild Thought: mafia!Mawile said he targeted mafia!Herbe on n0 so that some pages later mafia!Herbe could hardclaim honeypot lovers


----------



## qenya

Keldeo said:


> kokorico, sorry but I see you liking stuff, can I get a textual summary of your thoughts on the whole situation?


* was never on the Mawile train in the first place tbh
* didn't have a read on Herbe, happy to trust my other townreads' townreads on him
* agree with Neg that "motion detector" is a bit of a shit claim for mafia (admittedly disagree with Neg on several other things but not relevant rn)
* mostly just along for the ride and finding this all very entertaining


----------



## Herbe

kyeugh said:


> how would this be a risk for scum!you?


Cause I would be marrying myself to a hypo!teammate? way more devoutly than i would have needed to? and this is getting a bunch of attention on me anyway, like, fr


----------



## Ottercopter

Declaring lovers if they're w/w also makes them pretty obvious targets for a cop or any other investigative role or a blocking one and implicates them both, I would think. Like, we all like Herbe, but this is still pretty blatant bait for SOME sort of check into them.
Even if that type of role shouldn't hard claim/reveal tomorrow (still too early, yeah?), it can go on their list for when they DO choose to claim.


----------



## mewtini

Herbe said:


> Cause I would be marrying myself to a hypo!teammate? way more devoutly than i would have needed to? and this is getting a bunch of attention on me anyway, like, fr


yeah. this is a claim that gets made with the expectation/acceptance that checks will happen, not one that gets made on a whim

also as i said if herbe ends up being red i'm just going to throw the game and leave these forums for another 5 years tbh


----------



## rari_teh

Ottercopter said:


> Like, we all like Herbe, but this is still pretty blatant bait for SOME sort of check into them.


Yeah, but what’s the worst a cop could do tbh?


----------



## Zori

sorry for flaking, I had a complete lack of motivation due to a string of staying up late at night coupled with multitabling sucking up all of the brain I had intended to use for this game

what's happening


----------



## Zori

so Herbe claims lovers with Mawile, who claims motion detector?


----------



## rari_teh

Seshas said:


> sorry for flaking, I had a complete lack of motivation due to a string of staying up late at night coupled with multitabling sucking up all of the brain I had intended to use for this game
> 
> what's happening


- People are suspicious of Mawile
- People are suspicious of Stryke
- Both vote on Odie_Pie. People suspect.
- Strykewagon dwindles, Mawilewagon and Odiewagon compete
- Herbe hardclaims lovers with Mawile, Mawilewagon dismantles almost entirely


----------



## Keldeo

To add onto the multiple other people who said similar, lovers is a pretty quickly self-resolving claim, I would prefer not to lynch people that the mafia might have to kill if they are town, etc.



Seshas said:


> sorry for flaking, I had a complete lack of motivation due to a string of staying up late at night coupled with multitabling sucking up all of the brain I had intended to use for this game
> 
> what's happening


How to cliffs this situation lol. Most pressingly the current viable wagons are Odie_pie and Stryke I think


----------



## kyeugh

man i’m sorry i hear the stuff you guys are saying but i don’t feel good about it


----------



## Ottercopter

rari_teh said:


> Yeah, but what’s the worst a cop could do tbh?


Find two likely Mafia members in one night!


----------



## Zori

how are the wagon comps on Odie and Stryke
leaning Stryke given no other info, but depends on how the wagon died


----------



## Herbe

I welcome cops with open arms tonight tbh. Come in, have some tea.


----------



## rari_teh

Ottercopter said:


> Find two likely Mafia members in one night!


And then what?? It’s not like the cop could kill one of them if public opinion is siding with them


----------



## Zori

Who's claiming cop?


----------



## mewtini

Seshas said:


> how are the wagon comps on Odie and Stryke
> leaning Stryke given no other info, but depends on how the wagon died


stryke died when mawile talk ramped up
don’t have list rn because switched to mobile but odie is at 8, stryke at 4, mostly odie is getting treated as an easy vote lol


----------



## Herbe

we dont have a hard copclaim yet


----------



## kyeugh

rari_teh said:


> And then what?? It’s not like the cop could kill one of them if public opinion is siding with them


wh... what


----------



## rari_teh

Seshas said:


> how are the wagon comps on Odie and Stryke
> leaning Stryke given no other info, but depends on how the wagon died


The wagon died bc people had worst feelings about Mawile. Mawilewagon mostly jumped to Odie because that was the largest wagon at the time.


----------



## Zori

Did the Stryke wagon dwindle because he did something that people found townie, or was it because other people were scummier?


----------



## Keldeo

No one's claiming cop.

rari, then the cop would claim because trading two nights of checks + 2/(6-8?) wolves for one cop is a pretty good deal.



kyeugh said:


> man i’m sorry i hear the stuff you guys are saying but i don’t feel good about it


(think kyeugh is being really genuine rn in going against the thread consensus on this - like even if she's w, knows Mawile/Herbe are v/v, and is trying to mislynch them, it doesn't... make that much sense to me that she would keep visibly disagreeing with it)


----------



## Herbe

It dwindled because people thought mawile was acting more suspicious

Stryke didn't do anything to like, redeem himself, if that's what you're asking


----------



## Negrek

@Butterfree could you at least give us a hard cut-off time so we know how long we have?


----------



## rari_teh

kyeugh said:


> wh... what


People are siding with Mawile and Herbe because they trust Herbe. Good luck to the hypothetical cop who finds out they are mafia to try and convince people they are indeed mafia.


----------



## Keldeo

rari_teh said:


> People are siding with Mawile and Herbe because they trust Herbe. Good luck to the hypothetical cop who finds out they are mafia to try and convince people they are indeed mafia.


trust Destroyed with Facts and Mechanics


----------



## Zori

*Stryke*
given no other info, this is likely a lynch favored by scum a less than Mawile, since if the vote movement was significant, it was probably condoned by Mafia.


----------



## Zori

this is if we are assuming Mawile is town


----------



## mewtini

stryke 5/odie 8 by my count


----------



## Herbe

Eh I'll go *stryke*, I was only odievoting to save my husband


----------



## Negrek

Stryke hasn't claimed, correct?


----------



## Stryke

Gdi the days gonna end soon and my chances of lynch are good so I'll claim. I'm your tech doctor. I got nanobots. I healed Herbe N0 and VM N1. Probably gonna die now over the night but what the hell


----------



## qenya

Negrek said:


> Stryke hasn't claimed, correct?


Correct tbh


----------



## Zori

I'd rather not lynch Odie if I we help it, since it is informationless
Mafia can't puppet other Mafia votes, so Mafia has no reason to bail out Mafia!Odie unless he has some really powerful role


----------



## mewtini

Negrek said:


> Stryke hasn't claimed, correct?


don’t believe so. @Stryke ?

i’m not totally around rn so i’m sorry if i don’t get to vote switch quickly enough if something Happens


----------



## Negrek

ugh


----------



## Zori

Do we know anything else about the doctors?


----------



## mewtini

oh
yeah i might have to skrt. *unvote *tbh


----------



## Keldeo

Stryke said:


> Gdi the days gonna end soon and my chances of lynch are good so I'll claim. I'm your tech doctor. I got nanobots. I healed Herbe N0 and VM N1. Probably gonna die now over the night but what the hell


WAIT

this claim contradicts Mawile since he says he saw no movement on herbe n0


----------



## Zori

lol


----------



## rari_teh

Cold feet. *Odie_Pie*


----------



## Keldeo

Am I remembering that right?

I don't see why Stryke would claim a role that is definitely in the game and could counterclaim him though

Stryke could have been blocked I guess? Mawile's results tampered with?


----------



## mewtini

lol nvm tbh *stryke* i’m sorry

ok now i’m probably gone ?


----------



## Herbe

Stryke said:


> I healed Herbe N0 and VM N1.


oh this claim got me feelin some type of way


----------



## rari_teh

Keldeo said:


> WAIT
> 
> this claim contradicts Mawile since he says he saw no movement on herbe n0


HOLY SHIT YOU'RE RIGHT
*MAWILE*


----------



## Negrek

Mmm, so, lynch Stryke, and if he flips innocent, lynch Mawile tomorrow?


----------



## Keldeo

Uhhh I don't know. *Stryke*? There's something weird going on somewhere with someone's claims


----------



## mewtini

rari_teh said:


> HOLY SHIT YOU'RE RIGHT
> *MAWILE*


this isn’t necessarily an antimawile claim p sure


----------



## kyeugh

rari_teh said:


> People are siding with Mawile and Herbe because they trust Herbe. Good luck to the hypothetical cop who finds out they are mafia to try and convince people they are indeed mafia.


 they don’t have to convince anyone if they claim cop and no one else does
and if another scum member counter claimed and the original claimant was lynched and flipped town that would be like three scum nailed immediately


----------



## Stryke

Ah well. Just thought I'd let you know what you guys are getting into by lynching me. My chances of surviving to D3 are basically null at this point, so c'est la vie


----------



## Keldeo

If it's actually Mawile why would he claim no information when that's the easiest claim to randomly disprove

I don't see why either of them would lie but one of them has to be??


----------



## Negrek

It's really down to if you believe Mawile or Stryke at this point; I'm more positive about Mawile atm but not to a huge degree.


----------



## Zori

If one of Stryke and Mawile is a wolf it's probably Stryke
this might change depending on the situation/voters of the wagon shifts, but


----------



## Eifie

um

is it terrible that my first thought is "what if roleblock" instead of "lynch stryke"


----------



## Herbe

Keldeo said:


> WAIT
> 
> this claim contradicts Mawile since he says he saw no movement on herbe n0





rari_teh said:


> HOLY SHIT YOU'RE RIGHT
> *M*AWILE


Dude occams razor just says that he overlooked that it contradicted, this isnt antimawile lmao


----------



## rari_teh

Idk what to do anymore

halp


----------



## Stryke

Mrs. Obama it's been an honor


----------



## mewtini

anyone know vote count? tell me what to do pls

i’m in favor of leaving mawile alone so it’s between stryke/odie for me


----------



## Eifie

if Stryke is not the nanobot doctor then the real nanobot doctor will be able to counterclaim

idk if that's something we want to wait for/rely on

I just feel weird


----------



## Keldeo

Eifie said:


> um
> 
> is it terrible that my first thought is "what if roleblock" instead of "lynch stryke"


Yeah uh

I don't really see why either would lie (Stryke is in no danger!) and the wagons didn't really feel like exactly one wolf earlier, unless Stryke's partners were inactive, but lol wagon reads


----------



## Mawile

Keldeo said:


> Stryke could have been blocked I guess? Mawile's results tampered with?


If he was blocked, then I think it would show up as no movement? If my results were tampered with, I don't thiink I would have a way of knowing. Since I got in lovers with Herbe, I was definitely able to go and motion detect, so I don't think I was blocked?


----------



## Stryke

At least I learned to be more confident in my posting when I'm in mafia games


----------



## kyeugh

Stryke said:


> Ah well. Just thought I'd let you know what you guys are getting into by lynching me. My chances of surviving to D3 are basically null at this point, so c'est la vie


wait what is this your claim


----------



## rari_teh

Fuck it. *Stryke*


----------



## qenya

Keldeo said:


> Am I remembering that right?
> 
> I don't see why Stryke would claim a role that is definitely in the game and could counterclaim him though
> 
> Stryke could have been blocked I guess? Mawile's results tampered with?


You're overthinking this. *Stryke* sees a wagon forming against him, thinks "what's the easiest way I can dispel this"? In the heat of the moment, forgets he's contradicting someone we previously thought on balance was probably town.

...really hope I'm not wrong about this tbh. ;\


----------



## mewtini

ugh i’m sorry i’m afraid now especially since we don’t have a definite end time *odie*


----------



## Negrek

Eifie said:


> um
> 
> is it terrible that my first thought is "what if roleblock" instead of "lynch stryke"


Yeah, my immediate response is "one's lying" but my more reasoned response is "but this game be wack, yo." Not sure how we're going to untangle this outside of lynching one of them at this point, though? Is there an alternate scenario that seems plausible and also we have a snowball's chance at confirming somehow?


----------



## Zori

Keldeo said:


> Yeah uh
> 
> I don't really see why either would lie (Stryke is in no danger!) and the wagons didn't really feel like exactly one wolf earlier, unless Stryke's partners were inactive, but lol wagon reads


Tell me about the wagons


----------



## mewtini

damn it and then everyone comes in with stryke votes again. fuuuuck


----------



## Eifie

Keldeo said:


> I don't see why Stryke would claim a role that is definitely in the game and could counterclaim him though


the reason would be to draw out the real counterclaim


----------



## Negrek

mewtini said:


> ugh i’m sorry i’m afraid now especially since we don’t have a definite end time *odie*


At this point do we want to, like, ask for an extension? Would that be helpful?


----------



## rari_teh

Swearragod, if Stryke flips doctor I’m never voting again >:C


----------



## qenya

Negrek said:


> At this point do we want to, like, ask for an extension? Would that be helpful?


we just need to keep posting so fast that butterfree never catches up


----------



## mewtini

just for explanation in case: irl drama happening in my family rn and i’m in and out. that’s why i keep bouncing around


----------



## kyeugh

did stryke claim doctor? why is everyone saying that
i feel like i missed an important post


----------



## Stryke

kyeugh said:


> did stryke claim doctor? why is everyone saying that
> i feel like i missed an important post


Lol yeah


----------



## Zori

kyeugh said:


> did stryke claim doctor? why is everyone saying that
> i feel like i missed an important post


Stryke claimed nanobot doctor


----------



## Mawile

Stryke said:


> Gdi the days gonna end soon and my chances of lynch are good so I'll claim. I'm your tech doctor. I got nanobots. I healed Herbe N0 and VM N1. Probably gonna die now over the night but what the hell





kyeugh said:


> did stryke claim doctor? why is everyone saying that
> i feel like i missed an important post


----------



## rari_teh

kyeugh said:


> did stryke claim doctor? why is everyone saying that
> i feel like i missed an important post


He claimed to be Dr. Nanobots


----------



## Negrek

kyeugh said:


> did stryke claim doctor? why is everyone saying that
> i feel like i missed an important post


Yes he hard claimed nanobot doc, probably someone will post with the actual link while I'm typing this.


----------



## kyeugh

if stryke flips town that means the flips are borked no matter what


----------



## Eifie

Negrek said:


> Yeah, my immediate response is "one's lying" but my more reasoned response is "but this game be wack, yo." Not sure how we're going to untangle this outside of lynching one of them at this point, though? Is there an alternate scenario that seems plausible and also we have a snowball's chance at confirming somehow?


if no one counterclaims Stryke, he's probably telling the truth, yeah? I kind of prefer just... waiting for that. I know it's super dumb but I feel like they could both be telling the truth

this is even dumber but hosts can also make mistakes... ok probably one reason I keep thinking about this is in one game I was motion detector, detected no motion around someone who said he targeted me that night, and it turned out it was a modbot error where doc didn't register on motion detector

yes I know this is different because it's manual but you know

I kind of hate myself for posting this because it feels like not the most straightforward situation but idk it feels wrong


----------



## qenya

Negrek said:


> Yes he hard claimed nanobot doc, probably someone will post with the actual link while I'm typing this.


I gotchu: https://forums.dragonflycave.com/th...s-mafia-revival-d2.18577/page-136#post-676620

just realised he ninja'd me saying he _hadn't_ claimed yet. mildly irritating tbh


----------



## Eifie

is kyeugh counterclaiming


----------



## Eifie

@Stryke why did you heal VM when you have bad vibes about him tho


----------



## rari_teh

kyeugh said:


> if stryke flips town that means the flips are borked no matter what


Whadyamean?


----------



## Negrek

I'm not opposed to lynching neither of them today, but if we go that route I feel like we need a solid idea of how we plan to tackle the situation tomorrow.


----------



## Stryke

Eifie said:


> @Stryke why did you heal VM when you have bad vibes about him tho


I think he mentioned something about wanting out of the game anyway so I thought he'd be a likely mafia target


----------



## kyeugh

Eifie said:


> is kyeugh counterclaiming


no i just mean the two options are:
- stryke is actually not mafia, so jack’s flip was wrong
- stryke is mafia, so his flip is wrong


----------



## mewtini

*stryke* bc i remembered the antiVM post just now


----------



## Eifie

kyeugh said:


> no i just mean the two options are:
> - stryke is actually not mafia, so jack’s flip was wrong
> - stryke is mafia, so his flip is wrong


jack was deadly doctor tho


----------



## Keldeo

Negrek said:


> Yeah, my immediate response is "one's lying" but my more reasoned response is "but this game be wack, yo." Not sure how we're going to untangle this outside of lynching one of them at this point, though? Is there an alternate scenario that seems plausible and also we have a snowball's chance at confirming somehow?


Mm... I think the alternate scenario, if Stryke/Mawile/Herbe are v/v/v, is that Stryke got blocked or stopped somehow on night 1, or something else wack happened to Mawile's results. But unless we have a time-traveling motion detector, or someone wants to claim having blocked Stryke, I don't think we can prove or disprove that something weird along those lines happened. 

I'm aaa.


----------



## Eifie

Keldeo said:


> Mm... I think the alternate scenario, if Stryke/Mawile/Herbe are v/v/v, is that Stryke got blocked or stopped somehow on night 1, or something else wack happened to Mawile's results. But unless we have a time-traveling motion detector, or someone wants to claim having blocked Stryke, I don't think we can prove or disprove that something weird along those lines happened.
> 
> I'm aaa.


No Longer Vibing


----------



## Negrek

kyeugh said:


> no i just mean the two options are:
> - stryke is actually not mafia, so jack’s flip was wrong
> - stryke is mafia, so his flip is wrong


I'm dumb, how does Stryke flipping not mafia possibly mean Jack's flip was wrong?


----------



## Keldeo

kyeugh said:


> no i just mean the two options are:
> - stryke is actually not mafia, so jack’s flip was wrong
> - stryke is mafia, so his flip is wrong


Wait, I don't get it. Do you think Jack was the nanobot doctor?


----------



## kyeugh

Eifie said:


> jack was deadly doctor tho


yeah but he flipped not mafia. so if he was mafia doc his flip was wrong


----------



## rari_teh

I’ve flipped votes more times than I’m comfortable with in a very short timespan, so I’m locking my vote on Stryke and hoping the real nanobot man is JackPK or Odie (or serimachi)


----------



## Eifie

kyeugh said:


> yeah but he flipped not mafia. so if he was mafia doc his flip was wrong


omg I've said this for daaaaays

I think he was the half-mafia kind of mafia doctor


----------



## Keldeo

Stryke said:


> I think he mentioned something about wanting out of the game anyway so I thought he'd be a likely mafia target


But he could only be a mafia target if he was town?


----------



## Eifie

Eifie said:


> omg I've said this for daaaaays
> 
> I think he was the half-mafia kind of mafia doctor


it's also basically confirmed he was mafia by VM if you believe him


----------



## kyeugh

Eifie said:


> it's also basically confirmed he was mafia by VM if you believe him


 then why didn’t he flip that way again?


----------



## Zori

out of the loop but what did VM claim Jack was


----------



## Eifie

I don't like the idea of lynching a doctor claim that isn't counterclaimed

I also don't like the idea of lynching Herbe/Mawile right now

that's pretty much that


----------



## Stryke

Keldeo said:


> But he could only be a mafia target if he was town?


The thought that VM might be fishy only came to me as I was compiling my tier list. Before then I didn't have many thoughts on anyone


----------



## mewtini

Seshas said:


> out of the loop but what did VM claim Jack was


deadly doctor trope


----------



## Eifie

kyeugh said:


> then why didn’t he flip that way again?


half-mafia flip "not mafia"
like terrorist, mafia doctor (for some hosts), mafia roleblocker (for some hosts), etc


----------



## Negrek

Mmm, yeah. I wouldn't rule out there being a nano-doc AND a magic-doc AND an evil doc, but with the flavor of "docs hating each other," nanobot doc being mafia-aligned and white mage being innocent-aligned does make sense.


----------



## mewtini

does anyone have counts rn?


----------



## kyeugh

Seshas said:


> out of the loop but what did VM claim Jack was


vm didn’t claim it iirc, negrek did. ftr


----------



## qenya

Seshas said:


> out of the loop but what did VM claim Jack was


not town (because VM would have inherited Jack's role if Jack were town)


----------



## Eifie

@Stryke could you tell us your trope?


----------



## Keldeo

Eifie said:


> I don't like the idea of lynching a doctor claim that isn't counterclaimed
> 
> I also don't like the idea of lynching Herbe/Mawile right now
> 
> that's pretty much that


idr where my vote is 

*Vote Odie*


----------



## Zori

mewtini said:


> deadly doctor trope


So did Vipera not get any abilities today


----------



## Negrek

Or not mafia-flipping but half-mafia, like Eifie says.


----------



## Negrek

Seshas said:


> So did Vipera not get any abilities today


He said he picked up doctor (white mage).


----------



## mewtini

Seshas said:


> So did Vipera not get any abilities today


he gets only the first nonmaf, so he has white mage permanently now


----------



## Eifie

Negrek said:


> Mmm, yeah. I wouldn't rule out there being a nano-doc AND a magic-doc AND an evil doc, but with the flavor of "docs hating each other," nanobot doc being mafia-aligned and white mage being innocent-aligned does make sense.


I think the flavour just means that they healer clash


----------



## kyeugh

Eifie said:


> half-mafia flip "not mafia"
> like terrorist, mafia doctor (for some hosts), mafia roleblocker (for some hosts), etc


oh i see
by half mafia here do you just mean anti town 3p


----------



## Keldeo

kokorico said:


> not town (because VM would have inherited Jack's role if Jack were town)


I thought VM's claim was that he would have inherited the first non-mafia to die, which just makes this whole thing weirder


----------



## mewtini

it’s negrek who peeks at multiple tropes. not VM


----------



## qenya

Seshas said:


> So did Vipera not get any abilities today


VM got (claims he got) White Mage, which Negrek claims was ILS's trope

...we lynched ILS yesterday. not sure how far out of the loop you are


----------



## Stryke

Negrek said:


> Mmm, yeah. I wouldn't rule out there being a nano-doc AND a magic-doc AND an evil doc, but with the flavor of "docs hating each other," nanobot doc being mafia-aligned and white mage being innocent-aligned does make sense.


I do hate the white mage doc; it says in my PM that if some magic guy comes and does his thing on the same person as I do then it won't be good, but it doesn't elaborate on that. Never mentioned a deadly doc though. Was kind of sad when ILS flipped White Mage bc I couldn't have my heated rivalry with him in thread


----------



## rari_teh

Seshas said:


> out of the loop but what did VM claim Jack was


He claimed to inherit ILS’s role. That would make Jack mafia


----------



## Eifie

kyeugh said:


> oh i see
> by half mafia here do you just mean anti town 3p


no, I mean like a mafia role that doesn't get to be in mafia chat and doesn't know the mafia, and the mafia don't know them

they inspect and flip innocent and the town don't need to lynch them to win (I think) but they win with the mafia


----------



## kyeugh

Seshas said:


> So did Vipera not get any abilities today


vm had a one time power where he absorbs the power of the first dead townie
negrek is the one who informed us jack was deadly dr


----------



## Eifie

@kyeugh see terrorist in this list https://forums.dragonflycave.com/threads/important-mafia-rules.10732/


----------



## Zori

kk
Stryke can flip either alignment based of that tbh, although town is more likely


----------



## kyeugh

Eifie said:


> @kyeugh see terrorist in this list https://forums.dragonflycave.com/threads/important-mafia-rules.10732/


oh. checks out then


----------



## rari_teh

@Stryke what is your Trope Name and Power Trope?


----------



## mewtini

so is consensus that white mage and nano are town, and deadly dr was mafia? should i switch votes since there’s no ctrclaim


----------



## Panini

The important posts:


Mawile said:


> I think the closest thing I can find to my role is a motion detector: basically I can choose a person and if they get targeted by a night action or if they use a night action themselves, I get notified. I haven't really gotten much out of it, unfortunately.





Mawile said:


> *N0 was Herbe (just kinda picked at random, with 25 people on n0, I wasn't expecting much), and nothing happened.*
> N1 was VM, and I got that something happened.
> 
> 
> It's roleplaying?
> 
> 
> I basically just get something happened or nothing happened. No numbers, and I don't get information on whether the person left or if they got visited.





Herbe said:


> So basically at the end of N0 Bfree told me that I found a catch! And that his alignment was town. Private comm was opened, and we talked about our roles from there.





Stryke said:


> Gdi the days gonna end soon and my chances of lynch are good so I'll claim. I'm your tech doctor. I got nanobots. *I healed Herbe N0* and VM N1. Probably gonna die now over the night but what the hell


They contradict. I think if Herbe/Mawile doesn't make sense as a w/w claim because they're instantly busted if one of them flip/is ivestigated or outed somehow and the trade isn't worth it this early in the game
Which means I'm less inclined to believe *Stryke *contrary to what I said earlier????


----------



## Stryke

rari_teh said:


> @Stryke what is your Trope Name and Power Trope?


The Medic and Nanomachines


----------



## Keldeo

Yeah, I think I'm vibing with Stryke just being the nanobot doc and having gotten roleblocked...



Stryke said:


> I do hate the white mage doc; it says in my PM that if some magic guy comes and does his thing on the same person as I do then it won't be good, but it doesn't elaborate on that. Never mentioned a deadly doc though. Was kind of sad when ILS flipped White Mage bc I couldn't have my heated rivalry with him in thread


Somewhere Butterfree is shaking her fist at her intricate doctor rivalry storyline not working out


----------



## Panini

I was supposed to do something that started at 5 so I'm barely reading this 

tell me if I'm missing a point???


----------



## Eifie

mewtini said:


> so is consensus that white mage and nano are town, and deadly dr was mafia? should i switch votes since there’s no ctrclaim


that is my hypothesis and I strongly believe it. idk about consensus

waiting for a counterclaim could be playing right into the mafia's hands or whatever if they had Stryke made this claim to draw out the other doctor before he died, but... I think the identity of the nanobot doctor being revealed is less bad than lynching another doctor


----------



## Negrek

mewtini said:


> so is consensus that white mage and nano are town, and deadly dr was mafia? should i switch votes since there’s no ctrclaim


my consensus I don't know, my head hurts, and I would need to lie down if I wasn't already lying down


----------



## Mawile

Keldeo said:


> Somewhere Butterfree is shaking her fist at her intricate doctor rivalry storyline not working out


Butterfree is probably also shaking her fist at how long this end of day is. it never ends


----------



## mewtini

does anyone know if me switching my vote will actually help anything lol. i really cannot count on mobile


----------



## Eifie

Panini said:


> I was supposed to do something that started at 5 so I'm barely reading this
> 
> tell me if I'm missing a point???


stryke claimed nanobot doctor
however, his claim contradicted Mawile's because he said he targeted Herbe n0 but Mawile said there was no motion around Herbe n0

I do not support lynching either person atm


----------



## Negrek

I thought she had her script to do vote counting so she wouldn't need to go back through the whole thread???


----------



## Keldeo

Panini said:


> I was supposed to do something that started at 5 so I'm barely reading this
> 
> tell me if I'm missing a point???


No one has counterclaimed Stryke and according to VM, Jack's Deadly Doctor was not "not mafia", so it's also possible that Stryke got blocked unless you believe that Stryke is lying about a bunch of details of his PM to bait the counterclaim, or there are multiple mafias with doctor-like roles?


----------



## Eifie

Negrek said:


> I thought she had her script to do vote counting so she wouldn't need to go back through the whole thread???


she still needs to manually record the votes in some format, and then the script counts them, I think


----------



## mewtini

Negrek said:


> I thought she had her script to do vote counting so she wouldn't need to go back through the whole thread???


it only counts out of a manually compiled list iirc; she has to look for bold still, the script reads off the ACTIVE votes vs the old ones


----------



## Panini

Eifie said:


> stryke claimed nanobot doctor
> however, his claim contradicted Mawile's because he said he targeted Herbe n0 but Mawile said there was no motion around Herbe n0
> 
> I do not support lynching either person atm


Ugh

Wait why you're right though why would he claim a known role that's open to counterclaim

*Odie*


----------



## Eifie

Eifie said:


> stryke claimed nanobot doctor
> however, his claim contradicted Mawile's because he said he targeted Herbe n0 but Mawile said there was no motion around Herbe n0
> 
> I do not support lynching either person atm


oh lol I missed your earlier post and thought you were asking for cliffs


----------



## mewtini

*odie* lmfao. i agreed w panini and rn i’m sleeping her and eif because i’m too lost to do anything else and i’m scared of lynching a doctor


----------



## Eifie

Panini said:


> Ugh
> 
> Wait why you're right though why would he claim a known role that's open to counterclaim
> 
> *Odie*


(reason would be to get a counterclaim before he dies, but I think ~falling into that trap~ or whatever would be better than lynching an uncounterclaimed doctor again)


----------



## Negrek

mewtini said:


> it only counts out of a manually compiled list iirc; she has to look for bold still, the script reads off the ACTIVE votes vs the old ones


Ohhh, I thought it would scrape for bolded words.

godspeed Butterfree, but seriously how much time do we have


----------



## Keldeo

Negrek said:


> my consensus I don't know, my head hurts, and I would need to lie down if I wasn't already lying down


I am sitting on my bed and have been taking regular breaks to lie down and pound the floor in confusion


----------



## Eifie

Keldeo said:


> I am sitting on my bed and have been taking regular breaks to lie down and pound the floor in confusion


meanwhile my headache has mostly gone away for the first time in 24 hours

I guess I'm invigorated


----------



## Panini

I don't like speccing roleblocks because that's the easiest way to counter someone calling you out for a NA mistake

but this is like
a terrible thing to claim as maf over something you could just make up


----------



## Eifie

if it's actually true that Stryke/Mawile/Herbe are all town I'm going to feel so goat

if it's not true then I was never here and never posted a thing, obviously


----------



## rari_teh

@Panini Stryke had nothing to lose! He was going to be lynched anyway and people are scarred of lynching a doctor from last day! On the offchance nobody counterclaims, he’d be pretty much clear, like he is now


----------



## Mawile

Keldeo said:


> I am sitting on my bed and have been taking regular breaks to lie down and pound the floor in confusion


me_irl


----------



## Keldeo

@Herbe hi! How do you feel about these theories


----------



## Mawile

Real talk: n0 must have been a mess.


----------



## Stryke

rari_teh said:


> @Panini Stryke had nothing to lose! He was going to be lynched anyway and people are scarred of lynching a doctor from last day! On the offchance nobody counterclaims, he’d be pretty much clear, like he is now


Yeah it was more like "should I die today by not claiming or tonight by claiming"


----------



## Keldeo

rari_teh said:


> @Panini Stryke had nothing to lose! He was going to be lynched anyway and people are scarred of lynching a doctor from last day! On the offchance nobody counterclaims, he’d be pretty much clear, like he is now


Was he actually going to be lynched anyway? I thought the wagon was on Odie by a margin of a few votes at the time that he claimed.


----------



## mewtini

rn i’m figuring that accidentally lynching another doctor would be very bad and that “fucking up” and lynching odie would be less bad? maybe?


----------



## kyeugh




----------



## Stryke

Keldeo said:


> Was he actually going to be lynched anyway? I thought the wagon was on Odie by a margin of a few votes at the time that he claimed.


When I claimed it was something like 7 Odie 6 Me and I could tell it was probably gonna snowball from there


----------



## Eifie

did @Stryke give his trope yet


----------



## Negrek

Keldeo said:


> Was he actually going to be lynched anyway? I thought the wagon was on Odie by a margin of a few votes at the time that he claimed.


It was, but people were starting to move in his direction.


----------



## rari_teh

Keldeo said:


> Was he actually going to be lynched anyway? I thought the wagon was on Odie by a margin of a few votes at the time that he claimed.


IIRC we had no idea who was ahead


----------



## Stryke

Eifie said:


> did @Stryke give his trope yet


The Medic, Nanomachines


----------



## rari_teh

Eifie said:


> did @Stryke give his trope yet


The Medic, power is Nanomachines


----------



## Eifie

oh sorry totally missed that


----------



## Eifie

I feel okay with this. Negrek will find out Odie_pie's trope when they're lynched so if Odie_pie is town (pls no) Negrek can tell us if their trope is more doctor-like. And that's like, the only person not capable of counterclaiming Stryke if Stryke's not the real nanobot doctor.


----------



## kyeugh

does anyone know what the votes are right now


----------



## Butterfree

ALL RIGHT I am caught up sorry about that thank you for being a wild ride

Here's a vote count, day will end at *1:30 UTC* (in ~20 minutes).



Spoiler: Full vote history



*Keldeo* votes *Ottercopter* (#1488)
*Keldeo* unvotes (#1550)
*Eifie* votes *Panini* (#1577)
*Keldeo* votes *Panini* (#1882)
*Mist1422* votes *Panini* (#1940)
*Herbe* votes *serimachi* (#2001)
*Eifie* unvotes (#2101)
*Keldeo* unvotes (#2131)
*Herbe* unvotes (#2155)
*Eifie* votes *Mawile* (#2177)
*Herbe* votes *serimachi* (#2179)
*M&F* votes *Keldeo* (#2210)
*rari_teh* votes *Mawile* (#2215)
*IndigoEmmy* votes *Mawile* (#2216)
*Herbe* unvotes (#2251)
*Herbe* votes *Stryke* (#2259)
*IndigoEmmy* votes *Stryke* (#2261)
*M&F* votes *Stryke* (#2311)
*Panini* votes *Mist1422* (#2356)
*kokorico* votes *serimachi* (#2357)
*kyeugh* votes *Odie_Pie* (#2404)
*mewtini* votes *Mawile* (#2407)
*kokorico* votes *Odie_Pie* (#2429)
*Mawile* votes *Odie_Pie* (#2434)
*mewtini* votes *Stryke* (#2435)
*Herbe* votes *Odie_Pie* (#2436)
*kyeugh* votes *Mawile* (#2439)
*Stryke* votes *Odie_Pie* (#2441)
*mewtini* votes *Odie_Pie* (#2446)
*Ottercopter* votes *Odie_Pie* (#2451)
*mewtini* votes *Mawile* (#2466)
*Panini* votes *Mawile* (#2479)
*Keldeo* votes *Mawile* (#2495)
*Negrek* votes *Odie_Pie* (#2547)
*Ottercopter* votes *Mawile* (#2579)
*Eifie* votes *Odie_Pie* (#2612)
*Ottercopter* votes *Odie_Pie* (#2614)
*Keldeo* votes *Odie_Pie* (#2619)
*Panini* votes *Odie_Pie* (#2621)
*mewtini* votes *Odie_Pie* (#2624)
*mewtini* votes *Stryke* (#2638)
*rari_teh* votes *Stryke* (#2643)
*Seshas* votes *Stryke* (#2702)
*Herbe* votes *Stryke* (#2705)
*mewtini* unvotes (#2713)
*rari_teh* votes *Odie_Pie* (#2716)
*mewtini* votes *Stryke* (#2718)
*rari_teh* votes *Mawile* (#2720)
*Keldeo* votes *Stryke* (#2722)
*rari_teh* votes *Stryke* (#2739)
*kokorico* votes *Stryke* (#2740)
*mewtini* votes *Odie_Pie* (#2741)
*mewtini* votes *Stryke* (#2765)
*Keldeo* votes *Odie_Pie* (#2787)
*Panini* votes *Stryke* (#2806)
*Panini* votes *Odie_Pie* (#2819)
*mewtini* votes *Odie_Pie* (#2821)





Spoiler: Active votes



*Eifie* votes *Odie_Pie* (#2612)
*Herbe* votes *Stryke* (#2705)
*IndigoEmmy* votes *Stryke* (#2261)
*Keldeo* votes *Odie_Pie* (#2787)
*M&F* votes *Stryke* (#2311)
*Mawile* votes *Odie_Pie* (#2434)
*Mist1422* votes *Panini* (#1940)
*Negrek* votes *Odie_Pie* (#2547)
*Ottercopter* votes *Odie_Pie* (#2614)
*Panini* votes *Odie_Pie* (#2819)
*Seshas* votes *Stryke* (#2702)
*Stryke* votes *Odie_Pie* (#2441)
*kokorico* votes *Stryke* (#2740)
*kyeugh* votes *Mawile* (#2439)
*mewtini* votes *Odie_Pie* (#2821)
*rari_teh* votes *Stryke* (#2739)



Vote counts:
*Odie_Pie* (8) (Eifie, Keldeo, Mawile, Negrek, Ottercopter, Panini, Stryke, mewtini)
*Stryke* (6) (Herbe, IndigoEmmy, M&F, Seshas, kokorico, rari_teh)
*Panini* (1) (Mist1422)
*Mawile* (1) (kyeugh)
No vote (9) (Flora, JackPK, I liek Squirtles, serimachi, RedneckPhoenix, Vipera Magnifica, Mr. Ultracool, Odie_Pie, Boquise)[/spoiler]


----------



## Mawile

Butterfree said:


> Incorrect formatting: line 'kyeugh votes Mawile (#2439
> ' does not match vote pattern
> ~\Documents> python mafia-votecounter.py tvtmr\players.txt tvtmr\votes-d2.txt
> Players: ['Mawile', 'Herbe', 'Flora', 'kyeugh', 'M&F', 'JackPK', 'Panini', 'rari_teh', 'Ottercopter', 'I liek Squirtles
> ', 'Stryke', 'serimachi', 'Negrek', 'RedneckPhoenix', 'Vipera Magnifica', 'Mr. Ultracool', 'IndigoEmmy', 'Odie_Pie', 'S
> eshas', 'Eifie', 'kokorico', 'Keldeo', 'Mist1422', 'mewtini', 'Boquise']


f


----------



## rari_teh

Eifie said:


> I feel okay with this. Negrek will find out Odie_pie's trope when they're lynched so if Odie_pie is town (pls no) Negrek can tell us if their trope is more doctor-like. And that's like, the only person not capable of counterclaiming Stryke if Stryke's not the real nanobot doctor.


serimachi though


----------



## Eifie

Butterfree said:


> Incorrect formatting: line 'kyeugh votes Mawile (#2439
> ' does not match vote pattern
> ~\Documents> python mafia-votecounter.py tvtmr\players.txt tvtmr\votes-d2.txt
> Players: ['Mawile', 'Herbe', 'Flora', 'kyeugh', 'M&F', 'JackPK', 'Panini', 'rari_teh', 'Ottercopter', 'I liek Squirtles
> ', 'Stryke', 'serimachi', 'Negrek', 'RedneckPhoenix', 'Vipera Magnifica', 'Mr. Ultracool', 'IndigoEmmy', 'Odie_Pie', 'S
> eshas', 'Eifie', 'kokorico', 'Keldeo', 'Mist1422', 'mewtini', 'Boquise']


A LEAK


----------



## kyeugh

for posterity although my heart isn’t really in it
*odie_pie*


----------



## Eifie

rari_teh said:


> serimachi though


they at least posted once today so like. hopefully they. exist.


----------



## mewtini

kyeugh said:


> for posterity although my heart isn’t really in it
> *odie_pie*


i don't think anyone's heart is in either wagon tbqh.
of course the controversy dies down right as my house calms down huh


----------



## Keldeo

@ Stryke / Mawile / Herbe: If you're telling the truth, it's possible that you'll be targets tonight. Do you have any thoughts on people that you haven't posted?

@ whoever's catching up on this later, I'm sorry we posted so much :(

If I have time overnight or tomorrow, I'm going to work on cliffsnotes/charts since we're almost at 150 pages.


----------



## Negrek

Do we have any idea how we're going to untangle this whole mess tomorrow? The mafia could always zoom in and snipe Stryke, obviously, but if we end up with all three surviving the night, what do we do?


----------



## kyeugh

Negrek said:


> Do we have any idea how we're going to untangle this whole mess tomorrow? The mafia could always zoom in and snipe Stryke, obviously, but if we end up with all three surviving the night, what do we do?


 can they? don’t we still have two doctors?


----------



## Keldeo

Negrek said:


> Do we have any idea how we're going to untangle this whole mess tomorrow? The mafia could always zoom in and snipe Stryke, obviously, but if we end up with all three surviving the night, what do we do?


I guess we can just keep discussing it... I think it's possible that any of the people who aren't here will have more light to shed - whether that's some sort of inspection/information on one of them, or maybe one of them is actually the nanobot doctor.



Eifie said:


> they at least posted once today so like. hopefully they. exist.


Thoughts on who is mafia assuming Mawile/Herbe/Stryke are v/v/v? Do we just keep going through the POE :V

Also, do you have any salient thoughts on people's posting during this EOD? I think I liked kokorico and kyeugh's approaches, pending reread.


----------



## Eifie

Negrek said:


> Do we have any idea how we're going to untangle this whole mess tomorrow? The mafia could always zoom in and snipe Stryke, obviously, but if we end up with all three surviving the night, what do we do?


If nobody counterclaims Stryke tomorrow, I'd just believe him.

As for Herbe and Mawile, I like... well, would give them a day or two, tbh.

If there's a roleblocker or someone who can explain the Stryke/Mawile thing, I think it'd probably be best for them to claim tomorrow?


----------



## mewtini

Negrek said:


> Do we have any idea how we're going to untangle this whole mess tomorrow? The mafia could always zoom in and snipe Stryke, obviously, but if we end up with all three surviving the night, what do we do?


hopefully someone checks herbe or mawile (since they're alignment-tied now, right?) and lynching odie will tell us if stryke would've been counterclaimed; odie is the only person 100% not in play so if they are town (rip) and flip up with a nanobot dr trope then we all go "hmmm"



kyeugh said:


> can they? don’t we still have two doctors?


is it two? (and then assuming VM is around)


----------



## Negrek

Is VM even bothering to play anymore? And Stryke couldn't target himself. What am I missing?


----------



## Eifie

Keldeo said:


> I guess we can just keep discussing it... I think it's possible that any of the people who aren't here will have more light to shed - whether that's some sort of inspection/information on one of them, or maybe one of them is actually the nanobot doctor.
> 
> 
> Thoughts on who is mafia assuming Mawile/Herbe/Stryke are v/v/v? Do we just keep going through the POE :V
> 
> Also, do you have any salient thoughts on people's posting during this EOD? I think I liked kokorico and kyeugh's approaches, pending reread.


idfk I need to figure out who I'm probably reading wrong

I have a bad read from this eod that Panini is town. I am finding Negrek more towny now that we're more, like, in their element, you know?


----------



## kyeugh

i guess i didn’t think vm was actually just like completely peacing out of the game in every capacity


----------



## mewtini

kyeugh said:


> i guess i didn’t think vm was actually just like completely peacing out of the game in every capacity


i don't think he is, we just have to poke him maybe


----------



## Eifie

Negrek said:


> Is VM even bothering to play anymore? And Stryke couldn't target himself. What am I missing?


I have no idea but hopefully neither do the mafia so there's that

possibly the two doctors could target each other or possibly target other people, I think it should just be whoever they feel like so the mafia know as little as possible about who's off-limits to them tonight


----------



## Negrek

Should we attempt to ping VM? Should we ask him to target Stryke tomorrow night? Too fried to think this through properly rn.


----------



## Keldeo

kyeugh said:


> i guess i didn’t think vm was actually just like completely peacing out of the game in every capacity


I wouldn't fault him if he just checked out. The thread is huge and this EOD didn't really help, hehe. 



Eifie said:


> I have a bad read from this eod that Panini is town.


Tell me more?


----------



## Eifie

Negrek said:


> Should we attempt to ping VM? Should we ask him to target Stryke tomorrow night? Too fried to think this through properly rn.


maybe we should ping him and tell him to flip a coin between Stryke/whoever else he wants? I kinda don't want to give doctors exact targets


----------



## Negrek

Eifie said:


> maybe we should ping him and tell him to flip a coin between Stryke/whoever else he wants? I kinda don't want to give doctors exact targets


Sounds good to me.


----------



## Eifie

Keldeo said:


> Tell me more?


it's sooo dumb

well part of it is that I don't have the same feeling from the invitational where I posted that big case on her faking emotions at EoD2

the other part is well. she made that post voting Stryke. and then like a minute or two later was like "wait why claim something that can be obviously counterclaimed though" and switched to someone else. and I kinda just. feel like that was a real train of thought and that she doesn't know his alignment.

I said it was bad ok


----------



## rari_teh

@Vipera Magnifica Hi! It’s rari from the past. Please continue existing and skim over the last ~30 pages before choosing who to heal!


----------



## kyeugh

rari_teh said:


> @Vipera Magnifica Hi! It’s rari from the past. Please continue existing and skim over the last ~30 pages before choosing who to heal!


this is a lot to ask tbh? as eif says just flip a coin on healing stryke/someone else


----------



## Eifie

rari_teh said:


> @Vipera Magnifica Hi! It’s rari from the past. Please continue existing and skim over the last ~30 pages before choosing who to heal!


lmao asking him to read 600 posts

I was just gonna do this:

@Vipera Magnifica hey could you do us a favour tonight and flip a coin, and if it's heads heal Stryke and if it's tails heal whoever you want that isn't Stryke? pls and ty


----------



## Stryke

Do you guys care who I heal or can I just go ham


----------



## Herbe

Oh god im sorry im on page 139 I had to go downstairs and help my family wipe off our groceries I'll read as fast as possible


----------



## kyeugh

Stryke said:


> Do you guys care who I heal or can I just go ham


vm i thought


----------



## Eifie

kyeugh said:


> vm i thought


probably also flip a coin?


----------



## mewtini

yeah the heal-obscuring strategy should be in effect for both docs, right?


----------



## Mawile

Same here: do you want me to motion detect someone in particular?


----------



## Stryke

Eifie said:


> probably also flip a coin?


I have the perfect coin for this, it would be my pleasure


----------



## rari_teh

Or Eifie


----------



## Eifie

Mawile said:


> Same here: do you want me to motion detect someone in particular?


I think probably just don't tell us in advance. talk it over with Herbe during the night and pick someone?


----------



## qenya

Mawile said:


> Same here: do you want me to motion detect someone in particular?


As I said upthread: Pick someone probably-town-aligned that we haven't talked about much, who therefore isn't likely to be targeted at night.


----------



## mewtini

so are we sorted then, with 2min-ish left to go?


----------



## Keldeo

Stryke said:


> I have the perfect coin for this, it would be my pleasure


Please send pictures of this coin


----------



## qenya

mewtini said:


> so are we sorted then, with 2min-ish left to go?


Against all probability, tbh, I think so!


----------



## kyeugh

oh my god i just remembered something major


----------



## Keldeo

(If you're comfortable with it!)


----------



## mewtini

kyeugh said:


> oh my god i just remembered something major


please say sike tbh


----------



## Eifie

@Boquise


----------



## Ottercopter

kokorico said:


> As I said upthread: Pick someone probably-town-aligned that we haven't talked about much, who therefore isn't likely to be targeted at night.


Just in case you don't remember, don't pick me because I have no night actions.


----------



## mewtini

d2 goodnight to everyone tbh. godspeed to us indeed.


----------



## Butterfree

*The day has ended.* Please stay tuned for final vote count and flavor.


----------



## Butterfree

It's another chaotic evening for the Tropervillians. Tropervillains? Troperheroes? Who knows.

After a somewhat meandering discussion, somehow in the final hours they end up with two people confessing to a secret affair, another supposed doctor being suspected, contradictory claims, and an eventual push that probably the murders were committed by that one person who hasn't left the house at all since they began.

When the villagers gather at *Odie_Pie*'s house, they find her completely unresponsive - still alive and breathing, just not present somehow. They feel a little weird dragging her to the gallows in this state, but hey, _someone_'s got to be lynched.

*Odie_Pie is dead. She was not mafia.

Please send in your night actions. The night will end on April 20th, 0:00 UTC (Iceland time best time).*

Final vote counts:
*Odie_Pie* (9) (Eifie, Keldeo, Mawile, Negrek, Ottercopter, Panini, Stryke, kyeugh, mewtini)
*Stryke* (6) (Herbe, IndigoEmmy, M&F, Seshas, kokorico, rari_teh)
*Panini* (1) (Mist1422)
No vote (9) (Flora, JackPK, I liek Squirtles, serimachi, RedneckPhoenix, Vipera Magnifica, Mr. Ultracool, Odie_Pie, Boquise)



Spoiler: Full vote history



*Keldeo* votes *Ottercopter* (#1488)
*Keldeo* unvotes (#1550)
*Eifie* votes *Panini* (#1577)
*Keldeo* votes *Panini* (#1882)
*Mist1422* votes *Panini* (#1940)
*Herbe* votes *serimachi* (#2001)
*Eifie* unvotes (#2101)
*Keldeo* unvotes (#2131)
*Herbe* unvotes (#2155)
*Eifie* votes *Mawile* (#2177)
*Herbe* votes *serimachi* (#2179)
*M&F* votes *Keldeo* (#2210)
*rari_teh* votes *Mawile* (#2215)
*IndigoEmmy* votes *Mawile* (#2216)
*Herbe* unvotes (#2251)
*Herbe* votes *Stryke* (#2259)
*IndigoEmmy* votes *Stryke* (#2261)
*M&F* votes *Stryke* (#2311)
*Panini* votes *Mist1422* (#2356)
*kokorico* votes *serimachi* (#2357)
*kyeugh* votes *Odie_Pie* (#2404)
*mewtini* votes *Mawile* (#2407)
*kokorico* votes *Odie_Pie* (#2429)
*Mawile* votes *Odie_Pie* (#2434)
*mewtini* votes *Stryke* (#2435)
*Herbe* votes *Odie_Pie* (#2436)
*kyeugh* votes *Mawile* (#2439)
*Stryke* votes *Odie_Pie* (#2441)
*mewtini* votes *Odie_Pie* (#2446)
*Ottercopter* votes *Odie_Pie* (#2451)
*mewtini* votes *Mawile* (#2466)
*Panini* votes *Mawile* (#2479)
*Keldeo* votes *Mawile* (#2495)
*Negrek* votes *Odie_Pie* (#2547)
*Ottercopter* votes *Mawile* (#2579)
*Eifie* votes *Odie_Pie* (#2612)
*Ottercopter* votes *Odie_Pie* (#2614)
*Keldeo* votes *Odie_Pie* (#2619)
*Panini* votes *Odie_Pie* (#2621)
*mewtini* votes *Odie_Pie* (#2624)
*mewtini* votes *Stryke* (#2638)
*rari_teh* votes *Stryke* (#2643)
*Seshas* votes *Stryke* (#2702)
*Herbe* votes *Stryke* (#2705)
*mewtini* unvotes (#2713)
*rari_teh* votes *Odie_Pie* (#2716)
*mewtini* votes *Stryke* (#2718)
*rari_teh* votes *Mawile* (#2720)
*Keldeo* votes *Stryke* (#2722)
*rari_teh* votes *Stryke* (#2739)
*kokorico* votes *Stryke* (#2740)
*mewtini* votes *Odie_Pie* (#2741)
*mewtini* votes *Stryke* (#2765)
*Keldeo* votes *Odie_Pie* (#2787)
*Panini* votes *Stryke* (#2806)
*Panini* votes *Odie_Pie* (#2819)
*mewtini* votes *Odie_Pie* (#2821)
*kyeugh* votes *Odie_Pie* (#2849)





Spoiler: Active votes



*Eifie* votes *Odie_Pie* (#2612)
*Herbe* votes *Stryke* (#2705)
*IndigoEmmy* votes *Stryke* (#2261)
*Keldeo* votes *Odie_Pie* (#2787)
*M&F* votes *Stryke* (#2311)
*Mawile* votes *Odie_Pie* (#2434)
*Mist1422* votes *Panini* (#1940)
*Negrek* votes *Odie_Pie* (#2547)
*Ottercopter* votes *Odie_Pie* (#2614)
*Panini* votes *Odie_Pie* (#2819)
*Seshas* votes *Stryke* (#2702)
*Stryke* votes *Odie_Pie* (#2441)
*kokorico* votes *Stryke* (#2740)
*kyeugh* votes *Odie_Pie* (#2849)
*mewtini* votes *Odie_Pie* (#2821)
*rari_teh* votes *Stryke* (#2739)


----------



## Butterfree

In the morning, the tropers convene to find *Eifie*'s body, staring glassy-eyed into the air in an alleyway. Like the previous victims, she doesn't have a mark on her. They find a gun when they search her, but no membership cards for suspicious clubs or shady phone numbers.

A headcount reveals nobody else has been hurt. That's something, they suppose.

*Eifie is dead. She was not mafia.

You have 72 hours to discuss. The day will end on April 23rd, 0:00 UTC (UNIVERSAL time coordinated, because Iceland time is the correct time zone).*



Spoiler: Pings



@Negrek
@Keldeo
@JackPK
@Flora
@I liek Squirtles
@kyeugh
@Ottercopter
@M&F
@Mist1422
@Eifie
@RedneckPhoenix
@Panini
@kokorico
@Boquise
@Seshas
@Stryke
@mewtini
@Mr. Ultracool
@IndigoEmmy
@rari_teh
@Mawile
@Odie_Pie
@serimachi
@Herbe
@Vipera Magnifica


----------



## Herbe

eifie's sad react to this post is literally killing me oh my god. my poor eif


----------



## kyeugh

lmao the implication that mafia members have a Mafia Membership Card
but also :<


----------



## kyeugh

who am i going to sheep now!? doh doh doh...


----------



## Herbe

does gun = vig? negrek, what were your results?


----------



## Negrek

Odie_Pie was a Mysterious Informant.

Eifie was a Vigilante Man.


----------



## rari_teh

Holy fucking shit. I bet she was a cop.

Poor Eifie :'(


----------



## rari_teh

Negrek said:


> Odie_Pie was a Mysterious Informant.


WHOA! I wonder what piece of information will we never have?!


----------



## mewtini

NO


----------



## Negrek

...which is interesting, since she asked about someone vigging Ottercopter a couple times, I thought, and yet apparently did not do so herself?


----------



## Herbe

Fuuuuuuuuck.
Also, great, one of our limited MI's was the inactive, so there goes That information I guess. Hrmmm.


----------



## rari_teh

I have a bombshell to drop, but I’ll let everybody mourn Eifie first :(


----------



## mewtini

gotta get over my shock and read i guess. bruh


----------



## Herbe

I wish there was a  react emoji bc thats how im feeling about the vigging otter scenario.

Unless - hear me out negrek - you think maybe there's a swapper? who interfered with your role maybe? I don't know how that's possible, entirely, but just brainstorming here


----------



## rari_teh

Negrek said:


> ...which is interesting, since she asked about someone vigging Ottercopter a couple times, I thought, and yet apparently did not do so herself?


She always talked about how she wanted everybody to play the game and have fun and felt bad about offing people who were here and having a good time… I believe that’s why she didn’t kill anyone…! Poor Eif…


----------



## mewtini

those who were in prev game (i guess this is just one person now? jkfadhg) do three MIs make sense?


----------



## kyeugh

it does seem really really weird that eif was vig
lol @ odie having info


----------



## rari_teh

mewtini said:


> those who were in prev game (i guess this is just one person now? jkfadhg) do three MIs make sense?


IIRC two people? Mawile and Negrek? Or Keldeo was too…?


----------



## mewtini

just asking about Balance though i know talking about game 1 is a bit pointless. just trying to get my bearings rn; we have seshas/emmy/odie as three MIs as of now

don't know what to think about eif apparently being vig tbh


----------



## Herbe

they're more or less spicy vanilla town so I don't know why it wouldn't make sense?


----------



## rari_teh

Herbe said:


> they're more or less spicy vanilla town so I don't know why it wouldn't make sense?


Especially considering how vague some of the info they got is


----------



## kyeugh

yeah i think it seems fine


----------



## mewtini

Herbe said:


> they're more or less spicy vanilla town so I don't know why it wouldn't make sense?


yeah i agree! was just curious ha

what loose ends do we have to figure out from yesterDay? mawile motion detecting? the stryke drama? i dont remember what else


----------



## kyeugh

i wonder if vm submitted his night action


----------



## Negrek

Herbe said:


> I wish there was a  react emoji bc thats how im feeling about the vigging otter scenario.
> 
> Unless - hear me out negrek - you think maybe there's a swapper? who interfered with your role maybe? I don't know how that's possible, entirely, but just brainstorming here


I would be surprised if there's no swapper in this game, and it's always possible my results have been tampered with. I don't think it's very likely, though, since my power doesn't target but instead goes off for everyone who dies, and also doesn't go off until after that person dies, whereas swapping usually comes before death in the nightly order of operations. Also, who would it have been swapped with? Nobody else died. So I'd either get a random living player's trope, the trope of someone who'd previously died (at random), or a completely random one that Butterfree came up with? It's possible but seems pretty funky.

If there was any interference I would expect it to be either a complete role block or one of those roles that can edit results returned by other inforoles, e.g. the one I saw one time that would let you switch any instance of "Yes" to "No" or vice versa in a game where someone had that role where you can ask the DM yes-or-no questions.


----------



## Herbe

mewtini said:


> what loose ends do we have to figure out from yesterDay? mawile motion detecting? the stryke drama? i dont remember what else


Rari mentioned having a bombshell to drop?


----------



## rari_teh

Herbe said:


> Rari mentioned having a bombshell to drop?


I was going to wait until 15 minutes had passed, but if y’all want it I can say it now


----------



## kyeugh

rari_teh said:


> I was going to wait until 15 minutes had passed, but if y’all want it I can say it now


pls


----------



## Herbe

Your call, but I'm on the edge of my seat to hear it lmao


----------



## Negrek

mewtini said:


> those who were in prev game (i guess this is just one person now? jkfadhg) do three MIs make sense?


In the previous game at least four people claimed MI, and at least three were semi-confirmed (i.e. they died after claiming and flipped innocent).


----------



## Negrek

@Vipera Magnifica Did you heal anybody last night?


----------



## kyeugh

how many people were in that game again?


----------



## Negrek

50 lol


----------



## rari_teh

Before anything, about VM: [he logged in today](https://forums.dragonflycave.com/members/vipera-magnifica.2718/), so I imagine he must’ve sent his action

Anyway, onto the bombshell


----------



## kyeugh

hmmmmm


----------



## mewtini

rip the link but bombshell owo


----------



## kyeugh

post bonpshel


----------



## Mawile

Oh no Eifie :( The sad reacts are killing me inside.



rari_teh said:


> IIRC two people? Mawile and Negrek? Or Keldeo was too…?


According to one of the recap posts from the last game that I had to dig for, we had at least three confirmed MIs and five unconfirmed people who claimed MI. So about eight MIs out of 50, if we assume none were lying?


----------



## Herbe

rari_teh said:


> Anyway, onto the bombshell


i am refreshing this thread with the force of a thousand suns


----------



## rari_teh

Welp, blame kyeugh on this one. I’m lighting my cigarrette, for this is almost certainly my last Day alive.

I am a Private Detective and my power is Stalking Mission. Which means, I’m a regular alignment cop. No quirks that I know of.

N0 Mr. Ultracool: not mafia
N1 Mawile: mafia
N2 M&F: mafia

That is all information I got. I hope we do the right thing.


----------



## Novae

hello!

I should probably let y'all know I've given up on trying to play seriously because Stress:tm:

not about this game just in general


----------



## Novae

*Mawile*

cool I don't have to put effort in the next two days


----------



## kyeugh

and i oop


----------



## Herbe

Hm.
Hm hm hm.

Well, I personally 100% believe that you were interfered with N1, but I have no reason to trust *M&F.*


----------



## rari_teh

If *Mawile* is the train we’re taking today, so be it.


----------



## Herbe

(Please give me and mawile the benefit of the doubt. Also april 23 is my birthday and please don't inadvertently kill me on my birthday.)


----------



## mewtini

Herbe said:


> So basically at the end of N0 Bfree told me that I found a catch! And that his alignment was town. Private comm was opened, and we talked about our roles from there.


just so no one has to look back for this against their will


----------



## kyeugh

the info i mentioned at the last second yesterday made me feel bad about mawile so i’m fine pulling the trigger tbh
*mawile*


----------



## Negrek

@Mawile , what did you do last night?


----------



## Herbe

y'all really gonna kill me out here. Okay


----------



## mewtini

uhhh. is there a reason to vote? there is no day-ending hammer here is there? (Or Is There.)


----------



## kyeugh

mewtini said:


> uhhh. is there a reason to vote? there is no day-ending hammer here is there? (Or Is There.)


 is there a reason not to


----------



## kyeugh

i feel so vindicated. wahoo!


----------



## mewtini

kyeugh said:


> is there a reason not to


i guess not. my gut is just strongly like _why are we voting right now_ when we haven't even heard what mawile did and when we just established the possibility of redirects in a game this large, idrk


----------



## mewtini

even if i wasn't sure about mawile i'm just being emo right now i guess. would rather hear from everyone before vote placement :T


----------



## Negrek

Well, I figure Mist says they're out and just left a vote there since they won't be back anyway and wanted to toss something in.

Mawile was already super suspicious based on the contradiction that came up yesterday, so that's where I'd lean first look right now. If they flipped innocent, then at the moment where I'd look right now would be rari_teh and Stryke.


----------



## Mawile

Negrek said:


> @Mawile , what did you do last night?


As per suggestion, I motion detected someone who was believed to be town and who we haven't talked about too much. So I motion detected kokorico and found no movement.


----------



## mewtini

Negrek said:


> Mawile was already super suspicious based on the contradiction that came up yesterday, so that's where I'd lean first look right now. If they flipped innocent, then at the moment where I'd look right now would be rari_teh and Stryke.


yeah no i agree! just felt weird about voting >: mostly because i thought we were also waiting to hear from @Stryke in light of yesterDay's events


----------



## Negrek

@kokorico Do you think it makes sense that you weren't targeted/didn't use anything targeting last night? Would be best if you didn't say anything about your role/how you know unless you have another reason to claim, but since there are some targeting actions you'd know about (i.e. if anybody whispered to you about kyeugh), I'm wondering whether this sounds plausible to you.


----------



## Negrek

mewtini said:


> yeah no i agree! just felt weird about voting >: mostly because i thought we were also waiting to hear from @Stryke in light of yesterDay's events


I think votes only get counted at EOD, so I don't think people could end the day early by placing too many votes on Mawile.

Definitely agree that I'd like to hear from Stryke and a few other people as well!


----------



## Butterfree

As explained in the first post of the thread, there is no hammering mechanic - the day always runs the full length of the day.


----------



## Herbe

Welp. I have homework that I'm gonna go do. I would prefer people not jump on the lynching my husband train until all talk is on the table, but yeah.


----------



## kyeugh

i’ll be interested to see if people start counterclaimimg today.
rari, can you explain why you targeted who you did?


----------



## rari_teh

kyeugh said:


> i’ll be interested to see if people start counterclaimimg today.
> rari, can you explain why you targeted who you did?


Well, on N0, it was pretty random.

On N1, it was more based on gut feelings than anything. I spent quite some time rereading the post history of some people who vibed weirdly with me and, in the end, the one who sounded most suspicious was Mawile. I tested, bingo.

N2 was tougher. Even after rereading post histories, I was torn between M&F and Mist, and part of me also wanted to stalk Keldeo (I’m really pocketed by him atm, but the fact that he still vibed weirdly with a lot of people made me second-guess if the pocket around me belonged to a finely-tailored Italian suit). To make up my mind, I made a bigass table (partial screenshot here) to keep track of how was the count when each person cast their vote, keeping in mind Mawile is mafia. M&F’s movimentation weirded me out the most, so I chose to stalk her; bingo again.


----------



## mewtini

interested in rari's reply to that uwu


Mawile said:


> Herbe gives me mild weirdness (not necessarily suspicion). It's just kind of a bit weird to me that he focused so hard on giving an opinion about mewtini with quoted posts to give exact evidence and hasn't even really mentioned much about other people? It could just be an oversight on his end, but I still find it odd. Out of the three, though, Herbe gives me the least level of caution in comparison and would therefore go to the "probably town" amorphous blob, unless he manages to post something that gives me bad feelings.


also interested in a longer explanation about this post (lol unfortunate that i happen to be mentioned in it but the show must go on) since i don't really think it jives with my understanding of the lovers role? the context (as far as i looked back) was that keldeo asked mawile about rari/kyeugh/herbe opinions ("alignment read," not "reasons you may have weird feelings") and this quote was freely volunteered. it doesn't make utilitarian sense to me reading back with What We "Know" Now ... i know it isn't an ultrashade post, but any shade from mawile <-> herbe is bizarre given the situation right?

we know that both have been lovers and "town"-aligned (quotes bc uncertainty; this is just what we've been Told) since n0, right, so would there even ... be a reason to cast any doubt? idk i'm so confused all over again

other thoughts: i 100% believe that herbe/mawile are lovers, tbh, but i also am now wondering if it's the case that it could be a town-scum pair. in that case it would benefit herbe (well, both of them) to act as if mawile got realigned to town. this doesn't make the above quote make any more sense to me, but it could explain how we all feel so fine with herbe (who hasn't had to defend mawile the majority of the game) while feeling so weird about mawile


----------



## Mawile

rari_teh said:


> I am a Private Detective and my power is Stalking Mission. Which means, I’m a regular alignment cop. No quirks that I know of.


I know that I'm the one on the line here, but would it be at all possible that your results were modified at some point? We do know that the mafia have someone pulling the strings, according to Seshas' MI information.


----------



## mewtini

rari_teh said:


> the fact that he still vibed weirdly with a lot of people made me second-guess if the pocket around me belonged to a finely-tailored Italian suit


LOL


----------



## Novae

Negrek said:


> Well, I figure Mist says they're out and just left a vote there since they won't be back anyway and wanted to toss something in.


?


----------



## mewtini

Mawile said:


> I know that I'm the one on the line here, but would it be at all possible that your results were modified at some point? We do know that the mafia have someone pulling the strings, according to Seshas' MI information.


honestly i don't even think we have to rely on MI to wonder about the possibility of redirecting as i said earlier, but idk how we would test this or figure out what's happening


----------



## rari_teh

mewtini said:


> other thoughts: i 100% believe that herbe/mawile are lovers, tbh, but i also am now wondering if it's the case that it could be a town-scum pair. in that case it would benefit herbe (well, both of them) to act as if mawile got realigned to town. this doesn't make the above quote make any more sense to me, but it could explain how we all feel so fine with herbe (who hasn't had to defend mawile the majority of the game) while feeling so weird about mawile


My thought: maybe they are now 3p, but their flips are retained from the pre-lovers roles.



Mawile said:


> I know that I'm the one on the line here, but would it be at all possible that your results were modified at some point? We do know that the mafia have someone pulling the strings, according to Seshas' MI information.


I have no way of knowing if the results were tampered with.


----------



## Mawile

mewtini said:


> honestly i don't even think we have to rely on MI to wonder about the possibility of redirecting as i said earlier, but idk how we would test this or figure out what's happening


I feel like to test this, we would need to out another potential cop who would have had to check the same people on different days, which admittedly seems unlikely. This is also assuming that whoever would be able to tamper with results would have the ability to choose whose results to tamper each night.


----------



## mewtini

rari_teh said:


> My thought: maybe they are now 3p, but their flips are retained from the pre-lovers roles.


afaik lovers function dually (or trifold) as 3p, where they're pair-aligned, and then to their alignment. fsr i don't think totally pair-aligned lovers are all that common, but i don't really know. i don't know if the flip would make sense seeing as their factions _would_ change in herbe's claim, which i'm beginning to be more suspicious of as i keep reading back

ugh idk what to do i don't want to kill off herbe but i wonder if this is a tragic lovers scenario


----------



## kyeugh

mewtini said:


> other thoughts: i 100% believe that herbe/mawile are lovers, tbh, but i also am now wondering if it's the case that it could be a town-scum pair. in that case it would benefit herbe (well, both of them) to act as if mawile got realigned to town. this doesn't make the above quote make any more sense to me, but it could explain how we all feel so fine with herbe (who hasn't had to defend mawile the majority of the game) while feeling so weird about mawile


 this makes me wonder: if they’re town/scum, what are their win conditions? is it possible for them to both win? i feel like in a town/scum situation in which wincons are unaffected, it benefits herbe most to just come out and say that mawile is scum. so the three options are a) they’re both scum (this seems extremely unlikely to me), b) herbe is town and mawile lied to him about his alignment, or c) they somehow win together as town/scum
i guess the possibility also exists that they’re both non-lover scum but that seems far-fetched to me given it invites cop inspection which always ends poorly for them in that case


----------



## rari_teh

Lemme dig up a quote…



Eifie said:


> hardclaim that I don't actually have an n0 on Mist, but I do have an actual mech clear on Mr. Ultracool from n1


I wonder what was Eifie’s power trope.


----------



## kyeugh

btw, i know for sure there is a redirector. you’ll just have to trust me on that.


----------



## Mawile

rari_teh said:


> Lemme dig up a quote…


I wonder if her getting a mech clear was because of this part of the Vigilante Man trope:



			
				TVTropes said:
			
		

> Most Vigilantes will (try to) not hurt an Innocent Bystander; he will often go out of his way to avoid killing them, if possible.


Maybe she tried to do a kill (unsure why) and she got results back that she went out of her way to avoid killing Mr Ultracool that night?


----------



## mewtini

Mawile said:


> Maybe she tried to do a kill (unsure why) and she got results back that she went out of her way to avoid killing Mr Ultracool that night?


i'm guessing that that TVT quote is more closely connected with the trend of vigs committing suicide if they kill an innocent tbh


----------



## rari_teh

kyeugh said:


> mawile lied to him about his alignment


Didn’t Herbe claim that _Butterfree_ told him that Mawile was not mafia? I’m leaning more to the hypothesis of Herbe being scum.


----------



## rari_teh

Mawile said:


> I wonder if her getting a mech clear was because of this part of the Vigilante Man trope:
> 
> 
> 
> Maybe she tried to do a kill (unsure why) and she got results back that she went out of her way to avoid killing Mr Ultracool that night?


Or maybe she could choose whether she’d kill or inspect in the night?


----------



## mewtini

kyeugh said:


> this makes me wonder: if they’re town/scum, what are their win conditions? is it possible for them to both win?


the page that i dug up (i know this game is unusual but i'm taking what i can get) says a tragic pair could win if they were the last two standing, but anything else would normally be alignment based (where the wincons are diametrically opposed)


kyeugh said:


> b) herbe is town and mawile lied to him about his alignment


i think this is most likely


rari_teh said:


> Didn’t Herbe claim that _Butterfree_ told him that Mawile was not mafia? I’m leaning more to the hypothesis of Herbe being scum.


and herbe could have lied about this in an attempt to keep mawile away from suspicion tbh


----------



## mewtini

kyeugh said:


> btw, i know for sure there is a redirector. you’ll just have to trust me on that.


also in this case i think that, barring More Info from coming out (knock on mfing wood), we're going to have to decide who we want to gamble on between mawile and MF or decide who was more likely to be targeted by a redirector


----------



## Negrek

Mist1422 said:


> ?


In response to mewtini asking why people were voting already. From your post it sounded to me like you were checking out and wanted to throw in a last vote before you went, but if you had another reason, 



kyeugh said:


> this makes me wonder: if they’re town/scum, what are their win conditions? is it possible for them to both win? i feel like in a town/scum situation in which wincons are unaffected, it benefits herbe most to just come out and say that mawile is scum. so the three options are a) they’re both scum (this seems extremely unlikely to me), b) herbe is town and mawile lied to him about his alignment, or c) they somehow win together as town/scum
> i guess the possibility also exists that they’re both non-lover scum but that seems far-fetched to me given it invites cop inspection which always ends poorly for them in that case


I've pretty much assumed that Herbe and Mawile were a scum/town pair. However, Herbe said that Mawile's alignment info was received from Butterfree, not Mawile, so it wouldn't be a case of Mawile lying to Herbe as such. I'm also assuming Herbe's lying about that.

When I've used lovers in my games in the past, it's possible to win together as town/scum, but only if you're the last two standing. So it's possible that would be why Herbe would cover for Mawile.



rari_teh said:


> Lemme dig up a quote…
> 
> 
> 
> I wonder what was Eifie’s power trope.


It's possible that Eifie was a vigilante in addition to some other abilities, but the role trope really does sound straight vig. She was giving cop cover earlier, so I don't know that she actually did have a mech clear on Mr. Ultracool. It's also possible that something might have happened that convinced her of Mr. Ultracool's innocence that didn't involve her own power.


----------



## kyeugh

rari_teh said:


> Or maybe she could choose whether she’d kill or inspect in the night?


 oh, maybe.  i don’t remember the details of their claim. can they communicate out of thread?


----------



## mewtini

i love posting and immediately seeing neg's longpost come up. i feel validated rn


----------



## rari_teh

mewtini said:


> ugh idk what to do i don't want to kill off herbe but i wonder if this is a tragic lovers scenario


If that is the case, wouldn’t the mafia off Mawile the moment he started to push the town against the mafia, though? It would be ironic if Mawile was killed with a knife on the back again


----------



## kyeugh

Negrek said:


> I've pretty much assumed that Herbe and Mawile were a scum/town pair. However, Herbe said that Mawile's alignment info was received from Butterfree, not Mawile, so it wouldn't be a case of Mawile lying to Herbe as such. I'm also assuming Herbe's lying about that.
> 
> When I've used lovers in my games in the past, it's possible to win together as town/scum, but only if you're the last two standing. So it's possible that would be why Herbe would cover for Mawile.
> 
> It's possible that Eifie was a vigilante in addition to some other abilities, but the role trope really does sound straight vig. She was giving cop cover earlier, so I don't know that she actually did have a mech clear on Mr. Ultracool. It's also possible that something might have happened that convinced her of Mr. Ultracool's innocence that didn't involve her own power.


this is p much where i’m at i think esp wrt eif


----------



## Mawile

rari_teh said:


> It would be ironic if Mawile was killed with a knife on the back again


i swear if this happens again


----------



## kyeugh

rari_teh said:


> If that is the case, wouldn’t the mafia off Mawile the moment he started to push the town against the mafia, though? It would be ironic if Mawile was killed with a knife on the back again


 i’m not sure i understand this.


----------



## mewtini

Negrek said:


> I've pretty much assumed that Herbe and Mawile were a scum/town pair. However, Herbe said that Mawile's alignment info was received from Butterfree, not Mawile, so it wouldn't be a case of Mawile lying to Herbe as such. I'm also assuming Herbe's lying about that.


another thing to add is that it makes perfect sense imo for herbe to lie about this; at the juncture of the game where he said this (which isn't really a super malicious lie imo, but unfortunate for everyone else) it was coming up against the stryke/odie train and there was a decent amount of confusion going on (iirc?) 

it is in herbe's best interest to keep every wincon scenario open for himself. i also think he has been playing like exceptionally town thus far for reasons i've said before, so at this point i'm just going to assume that he was trying to cover for mawile 

(also agree w neg on eif)



rari_teh said:


> If that is the case, wouldn’t the mafia off Mawile the moment he started to push the town against the mafia, though?


maybe but i don't think it has much to do with discussion as it stands now, seeing as that hasn't come to pass yet


----------



## Negrek

The hypothesis that Eifie had some way to check alignment in addition to vigging is interesting! Being able to inspect *or* kill would be hella powerful, as would your kills not working if you happened to target non-mafia, but if Eifie was the vig variant that dies if they kill an innocent player, that would definitely explain why she hadn't shot anyone yet despite bringing up the possibility.



mewtini said:


> also in this case i think that, barring More Info from coming out (knock on mfing wood), we're going to have to decide who we want to gamble on between mawile and MF or decide who was more likely to be targeted by a redirector


At this point I'm very much leaning towards Mawile, simply because the bit with Stryke yesterday threw a lot of doubt on them to me. This isn't to let MF off the hook, but I feel like untangling this stuff with Mawile/Herbe is higher priority than dealing with her atm.



kyeugh said:


> oh, maybe.  i don’t remember the details of their claim. can they communicate out of thread?


So they say.


----------



## kyeugh

mewtini if you’re right then what would you suggest to do?


----------



## rari_teh

kyeugh said:


> oh, maybe.  i don’t remember the details of their claim. can they communicate out of thread?


Only if somebody here Sees Dead People


----------



## kyeugh

wat


----------



## mewtini

also another thing. im just extrapolating a bit from what herbe said


Herbe said:


> Hardclaim Lovers with Mawile.
> My role is basically that whoever targeted me N0 (or whoever targeted me first) got stuck in my honeypot and became my lover.


which kinda. i think it makes it very likely that it was an attempted kill or something (taking existing suspicions and discussion into consideration). F


----------



## mewtini

kyeugh said:


> mewtini if you’re right then what would you suggest to do?


i have no clue


----------



## rari_teh

kyeugh said:


> i’m not sure i understand this.


From what I see on MafiaScum, Tragic Lovers’s win condition is leaving only both alive. At some point, they have to push the town to kill the rest of the mafia – and that must happen before mafia becomes a majority, otherwise mafia wins and they lose.


----------



## Negrek

kyeugh said:


> i’m not sure i understand this.


In the last TVTropes Mafia, Mawile was mafia and died literally with a knife in the back, i.e. backstabbed. One of the other mafia claimed to have killed them. It was also plausible that one of the verified vigilantes, who died the same night, killed Mawile. The game never finished, so we never found out what was actually up with that.



rari_teh said:


> Only if somebody here Sees Dead People


also wat


----------



## mewtini

rari_teh said:


> Only if somebody here Sees Dead People


is this meant to be about a medium lol


----------



## kyeugh

rari_teh said:


> From what I see on MafiaScum, Tragic Lovers’s win condition is leaving only both alive. At some point, they have to push the town to kill the rest of the mafia – and that must happen before mafia becomes a majority, otherwise mafia wins and they lose.


 i don’t see why this suggests they’d kill mawile. they’d have to know they were tragic lovers.


----------



## rari_teh

kyeugh said:


> wat


I thought you were referring to Eifie. I just made a clown out of myself.


----------



## mewtini

kyeugh said:


> i don’t see why this suggests they’d kill mawile. they’d have to know they were tragic lovers.


with mawile's intel the pair now has the advantage of knowing what killing order to go in though, doesn't it? like i said earlier i don't think it matters yet/points to an immediate mafia kill of mawile (in the perfect world where town doesn't lynch or complicate anything) but it would eventually since they'd have to get rid of herbe, and herbe's influence? idk if that makes sense


----------



## Butterfree

(Incidentally, when this game finishes, I'll show you all what happened in the old TV Tropes Mafia too. Finally closure.)


----------



## mewtini

sorry i'm like pathetically conflicted about having to also kill off herbe in light of this but i'm now pretty sure that this is the scenario rn


Negrek said:


> At this point I'm very much leaning towards Mawile, simply because the bit with Stryke yesterday threw a lot of doubt on them to me. This isn't to let MF off the hook, but I feel like untangling this stuff with Mawile/Herbe is higher priority than dealing with her atm.


not that i disagree but could you explain this a bit more?


----------



## rari_teh

kyeugh said:


> i don’t see why this suggests they’d kill mawile. they’d have to know they were tragic lovers.


Well, they claimed lovers yesterday. If Herbe isn’t scum, wouldn’t tragic lovers be the only possibility?


----------



## kyeugh

rari_teh said:


> Well, they claimed lovers yesterday. If Herbe isn’t scum, wouldn’t tragic lovers be the only possibility?


no. they could just be normal lovers of opposite alignments. in that situation scum still doesn’t want to kill herbe because a single town death isn’t worth one of their own.


----------



## rari_teh

kyeugh said:


> they could just be normal lovers of opposite alignments.


Wait, I’m confused, what would be their win condition in this case? Sorry to Ask Stupid Questions


----------



## kyeugh

i don’t know. that’s what my post was about earlier.


----------



## rari_teh

kyeugh said:


> i don’t know. that’s what my post was about earlier.


oh ok. leave it to me to make a clown outta myself once again x.x


----------



## kyeugh

it happens to the best of us.


----------



## Novae

Negrek said:


> In response to mewtini asking why people were voting already. From your post it sounded to me like you were checking out and wanted to throw in a last vote before you went, but if you had another reason,


oh

no I'm just mentally checked out


----------



## Novae

I was going to say something but I forgot


----------



## mewtini

i thought oppositely aligned lovers was precisely what a tragic lover pair was, and is also the only possibility assuming that rari didn't get redirected and that herbe is town

also now that i think more about it, it makes more sense as to why mawile might've made the post i was questioning earlier; even if it were maybe self-sacrificial, throwing some doubt on herbe could help with later killing him off (what i'm attempting to describe is the inverse of what i mentioned with herbe trying to preserve as many wincons as he could. mawile doing this could also save him from later retconning on herbe and having more suspicion drawn to himself)


----------



## Mawile

Mist1422 said:


> I was going to say something but I forgot


fair tbh


----------



## kyeugh

mewtini said:


> i thought oppositely aligned lovers was precisely what a tragic lover pair was, and is also the only possibility assuming that rari didn't get redirected and that herbe is town


my understanding is that tragic lovers are a specific variant, and not one compatible with the lover assignment being pseudo-random as it allegedly was rather then assigned by butterfree pregame.


----------



## rari_teh

Just to clarify because I’m pretty sure that sooner or later somebody will question me about this:



			
				Someone would have said:
			
		

> Why didn’t you investigate Ottercopter if you were so suspicious about her?


On N1, because I thought people would sort her out the next Day after what happened on EoD and that would be a total waste of investigation.
On N2, because Otter’s actions on D2 convinced me that she isn’t mafia (probably 3p or, who knows, telling the truth)


----------



## mewtini

tbh smart move because i wondered, but i also thought that an MF read made total sense given discussion


----------



## Negrek

Butterfree said:


> (Incidentally, when this game finishes, I'll show you all what happened in the old TV Tropes Mafia too. Finally closure.)


I am delighted to hear you still have your notes about this from ten years ago!



mewtini said:


> sorry i'm like pathetically conflicted about having to also kill off herbe in light of this but i'm now pretty sure that this is the scenario rn
> 
> not that i disagree but could you explain this a bit more?


Basically, I wasn't feeling a Mawile lynch last night, but then Mawile said that they'd motion-detected Herbe N0 and gotten no movement. Stryke then popped up to claim they'd healed Herbe N0, which, if Mawile was _actually_ a motion detector, would have registered as activity.

At that point I was pretty much like... yeeeeeah, that makes me pretty suspicious of Mawile. It's possible that Stryke's lying or that his action was blocked/redirected and never reached Herbe. But now a new day rolls around, and we have another piece of evidence that points to Mawile being Mafia... It's still possible he's Town! But we're starting to have to believe multiple coincidences here. The most simple explanation is that Mawile's mafia.

Also, if Mawile dies and flips town, that would paint a big target on both Stryke and rari_teh, as far as I'm concerned. It's a bit surprising that Stryke was able to claim doctor and live the night, so of the two he's more suspicious in my mind. It's possible that they're both Town and weird stuff went down with their night actions (cop and doc sure are bold Mafia fakeclaims!), but again, if Mawile flips innocent, simplest explanation is that one or both is lying. So, I think even if Mawile were to flip innocent, we'd be set up with some good future targets after seeing his true alignment.

As for MF? If we lynch Mawile and he flips mafia, MF is immediately on the chopping block next as far as I'm concerned. I'm not opposed to sussing her out more today, either! I don't think she's a bad target, just that her death would put fewer immediate questions to rest. Definitely worth taking a look back and seeing who's been suspecting her, how she's been voting, etc. But all in all I'm liking Mawile better as a target just at the moment.


----------



## rari_teh

Negrek said:


> I am delighted to hear you still have your notes about this from ten years ago!


tbh, coming from Butterfree, I wasn’t surprised at all given the fact that (at least until little time ago) one could still browse 2003!TCoD lmao


Negrek said:


> At that point I was pretty much like... yeeeeeah, that makes me pretty suspicious of Mawile. It's possible that Stryke's lying or that his action was blocked/redirected and never reached Herbe. But now a new day rolls around, and we have another piece of evidence that points to Mawile being Mafia... It's still possible he's Town! But we're starting to have to believe multiple coincidences here. The most simple explanation is that Mawile's mafia.


I completely agree.


----------



## mewtini

thanks! totally agree with ... pretty much all of that



Negrek said:


> Basically, I wasn't feeling a Mawile lynch last night, but then Mawile said that they'd motion-detected Herbe N0 and gotten no movement. Stryke then popped up to claim they'd healed Herbe N0, which, if Mawile was _actually_ a motion detector, would have registered as activity.


yeah - we all mentioned EoD that motion-detecting was impossibly easy to fake, but looking back mawile could've said this after an attempted mafia kill? (since herbe said that mawile got trapped/loverized n0.) in which case it makes sense that mawile would choose herbe to fakeclaim this about; herbe would have no reason to counter, and lying and saying the motion-detect attempt went to anyone else would be significantly riskier

that scenario doesn't really say anything about stryke's claim, though, since i'm assuming herbe's role actually made him immune to a kill attempt, so that leaves us at null. either way i agree that a mawile flip will reveal more than an MF one - i kinda think that since this is looking like we'll hit an early consensus (? again knock on wood) that a lot of time can go into talking about/with MF and stryke, etc


----------



## rari_teh

As for MF, we could purposefully leave both her and Mawile with the same amount of votes and leave the decision to Random.org


----------



## M&F

goyvens do you people ever stop posting-

I suppose it's time for my tell-all, in any case, because I have much in the way of shit that's highly relevant to the jour's discussion


----------



## mewtini

rari_teh said:


> As for MF, we could purposefully leave both her and Mawile with the same amount of votes and leave the decision to Random.org


i hate to say this but i may be more on-board with just letting MF be next in line for now, even that's what comes to pass. also there _is_ still a redirect somewhere out there, so i'd rather just talk to MF before saying stuff like this

why cant we all just get along tbh.....! hardclaim there is no mafia. we are all just bffs


----------



## Mawile

mewtini said:


> that scenario doesn't really say anything about stryke's claim, though, since i'm assuming herbe's role actually made him immune to a kill attempt,


Food for thought: if this is true, then I would have needed to try to use the mafia kill on Herbe, right? So who killed Jack n0?


----------



## mewtini

M&F said:


> I suppose it's time for my tell-all


omfg. Anotha One


----------



## mewtini

Mawile said:


> Food for thought: if this is true, then I would have needed to try to use the mafia kill on Herbe, right? So who killed Jack n0?


vigilante? (that guess has its own issues though)
i hope everyone realizes i really am just throwing ideas around btw


----------



## Negrek

Mawile said:


> Food for thought: if this is true, then I would have needed to try to use the mafia kill on Herbe, right? So who killed Jack n0?


or you have a non-kill mafia night action and another mafioso went for Jack


----------



## mewtini

Negrek said:


> or you have a non-kill mafia night action and another mafioso went for Jack


hrm. and it wouldn't stack up if that non-kill action were motion detector either, right, due to stryke's claim


----------



## Negrek

mewtini said:


> hrm. and it wouldn't stack up if that non-kill action were motion detector either, right, due to stryke's claim


That's how I would interpret it.


----------



## rari_teh

kyeugh said:


> btw, i know for sure there is a redirector. you’ll just have to trust me on that.


Do you know whether this redirector redirects their target’s actions or deflects the actions targeting their target? Sorry if that makes little sense lol


----------



## kyeugh

rari_teh said:


> Do you know whether this redirector redirects their target’s actions or deflects the actions targeting their target? Sorry if that makes little sense lol


nope.


----------



## Mawile

M&F said:


> I suppose it's time for my tell-all, in any case, because I have much in the way of shit that's highly relevant to the jour's discussion


I'm excited for this.


----------



## M&F

so, my trope is Inspector Lestrade. my power is Hot Pursuit. my PM otherwise reads like that of a common alignment cop, but suffice to say that the flavor has given me every reason to assume that I do not have regular sanity.

this is why I was so invested in the cop cover thing; loved the idea, but felt like it'd be a dead giveaway if I went at it too enthusiastically -- not to mention that I also had the difficult task in my hands to figured out _just what hell sanity it is I have_. because the truth is, I have an N0 result on Mawile and an N1 result on Negrek as I claimed -- they both flipped mafia to me.

(I went and checked Keldeo N2, to see if I could finally set myself to ease on that front; it's yet another red result)

now, there are three things that such could possibly mean, and I'm nearly back to square one with it all, so:

option 1: I'm regular insane; therefore, Mawile, Negrek and Keldeo are town. I stuck to this assumption as of D1 because I kinda had to pick one by then and Negrek seemed genuinely town enough to me. but I also had trouble keeping that together in my head, which is why I kept going back and forth on pressuring Mawile -- like, a part of me kept going back to "if we pressure or lynch Mawile we can have something really, genuinely concrete to throw these results against", while the other part was "nah, I trust Negrek, better we chase regular reads and try not to stand out as cop, or worse, mislynched"
option 2: I'm the type of insane that always reads red (or the type of insane that gets random reads, and the random number god is mocking me). it'd make sense with the flavor and all, but that'd be _so annoying_
option 3: I'm not insane at all, and I genuinely just mech read all three mafiosi. this was unlikely the first time and just keeps on getting less likely, though. I'm not going to call it _impossible_, but assuming it at this juncture would be, at the very best, wishful thinking
regardless, though, I'm more confused than ever, after rari_teh's claim. on _that_, I posit two possibilities:

rari_teh is also insane, and either has a role PM that masks it better, or just hasn't thought of it; regular insane and random insane would be the possibilities that make sense here, I suppose
rari_teh is scum, and more to the point, playing terribly; possibly assumed that cop would be a safe fakeclaim after offing someone who claimed to have a mechanical clear
I'm a lot more inclined to believe the former given no further information, but of course, it will depend on what they have to say about it


----------



## mewtini

... we're really in for a _Day 3_ aren't we.


----------



## Mawile

To be fair, I also had the issue of having to realize that my flavor text gave me Actual Important Information, so you're not alone there.


----------



## kyeugh

i want to believe this bc it means i can go back to the comfy halcyon days of feeling weird about rari


----------



## rari_teh

M&F said:


> rari_teh is also insane, and either has a role PM that masks it better, or just hasn't thought of it; regular insane and random insane would be the possibilities that make sense here, I suppose
> rari_teh is scum, and more to the point, playing terribly; possibly assumed that cop would be a safe fakeclaim after offing someone who claimed to have a mechanical clear


On the first possibility, I have zero indication on my role PM that I am, somehow, insane. I can’t directly quote it because it’s against the rules, but you can trust me on that.

On the second possibility, to be frank, the entirety of the mafia would either have to be a bunch of idiots who have zero foresight or be eating me alive right now in the chat after such a terrible move.


----------



## kyeugh

rari_teh said:


> On the second possibility, to be frank, the entirety of the mafia would either have to be a bunch of idiots who have zero foresight or be eating me alive right now in the chat after such a terrible move.


maybe that’s exactly why we wouldn’t expect it! hiding in plain sight! dohohohohoh!


----------



## mewtini

MF is there any indication in your pm to make it seem like you are an insane cop? (i.e. is it possible rari also just doesn't know/hasn't figured it out?)


----------



## Novae

rari being insane is unlikely because that contradicts eifie's clear on ultracool


----------



## rari_teh

My two cents: either Mafia!M&F is claiming mad cop to take the credibility out of my claim or MadCop!M&F’s role makes her flip mafia despite being town-aligned.

Or she/I was deflected on N2.


----------



## mewtini

actually, i guess hot pursuit makes it clear enough, especially in concert with other flavor ...


----------



## kyeugh

Mist1422 said:


> rari being insane is unlikely because that contradicts eifie's clear on ultracool


wasn’t that just cop cover


----------



## mewtini

maybe i'm gullible but the ins and outs of mf's post make me very wary of assuming she's mafia now hah



rari_teh said:


> Or she/I was deflected on N2.


this is a Thought though


----------



## mewtini

kyeugh said:


> wasn’t that just cop cover


nope. she hardclaimed this clear, but said she has no real clear on mist


----------



## kyeugh

rari_teh said:


> Or she/I was deflected on N2.


can you walk me through this idgi


----------



## rari_teh

kyeugh said:


> wasn’t that just cop cover


We don’t know. Eifie hardclaimed her clear on Ultracool, _but_


----------



## kyeugh

i wonder if eif’s clear was from a similar thing to vm’s whisper about me
no point in wondering ig


----------



## kyeugh

i’m gonna watch a movie bbl.


----------



## rari_teh

kyeugh said:


> can you walk me through this idgi


Either somebody redirected my action to someone who was mafia or someone deflected actions targetting M&F to someone who was mafia.


----------



## serimachi

Aww, shoot. Now I feel bad that I ever mentioned suspecting Eifie.  It sounds like she was an important role, too, and not an alien or something like I suspected.

Out of general curiosity, and something I've been wondering, is it allowed for more than one person to have the same role?


----------



## mewtini

rari_teh said:


> Either somebody redirected my action to someone who was mafia or someone deflected actions targetting M&F to someone who was mafia.


tbh i don't think this is unlikely - rari had been posting cop cover so a redirector wouldn't have to think super hard to try to find someone's read to redirect


----------



## Mawile

serimachi said:


> Out of general curiosity, and something I've been wondering, is it allowed for more than one person to have the same role?


Assumedly yes, because we have multiple Mysterious Informants.


----------



## rari_teh

mewtini said:


> tbh i don't think this is unlikely - rari had been posting cop cover so a redirector wouldn't have to think super hard to try to find someone's read to redirect


I only posted cop cover on D1, though


----------



## mewtini

rari_teh said:


> I only posted cop cover on D1, though


i don't think it really matters how consistent you'd been tbh, though this is fair. would you then be guessing that mf got redirected, though?

(i have definite confbias/hope that rari got redirected and rari and mf aren't truly at odds ... but alas, the real world is unfair,)



mewtini said:


> tbh i don't think this is unlikely - rari had been posting cop cover so a redirector wouldn't have to think super hard to try to find someone's read to redirect


like yes this would be a gamble, but only a few people had been cop covering (eifie, rari, i have MF written in my notes as a claimant but don't remember when that cover was posted) and it would be better for maf/redirect to deflect any of those people's actions than to go for none


----------



## Mawile

Also inb4 we get even more roleclaims today that confuse everyone.


----------



## rari_teh

I reread my role PM and the only information it conveys that I forgot to mention is that some special roles may give me a misleading result (but I guess that isn’t a surprise to anyone, now, is it)


----------



## rari_teh

M&F said:


> option 2: I'm the type of insane that always reads red (or the type of insane that gets random reads, and the random number god is mocking me). it'd make sense with the flavor and all, but that'd be _so annoying_


I was thinking how this option seems to make the most sense and an idea hit me: if we don’t lynch you or Mawile today, why don’t you inspect ILS next Night? If he also flips red, the random gods would _really_ have to be mocking you if you can see green at all…


----------



## Mawile

rari_teh said:


> I was thinking how this option seems to make the most sense and an idea hit me: if we don’t lynch you or Mawile today, why don’t you inspect ILS next Night? If he also flips red, the random gods would _really_ have to be mocking you if you can see green at all…


can you inspect a dead person tho


----------



## mewtini

or MF could just inspect someone who she has a strong townlean on tbh. wouldn't be conclusive but ...


----------



## Novae

inspect yourself

simple easy


----------



## Novae

alternatively, you could ask the mafia to be nice and tell us who they're killing tonight, so you can investigate that person


----------



## rari_teh

Mist1422 said:


> inspect yourself
> 
> simple easy


She may see everyone _but herself_ as red, though


----------



## rari_teh

Mawile said:


> can you inspect a dead person tho


We almost lynched a dead person (votes on JackPK were counted at EoD); that makes me think that one can, indeed, inspect the dead.


----------



## Mawile

rari_teh said:


> We almost lynched a dead person (votes on JackPK were counted at EoD); that makes me think that one can, indeed, inspect the dead.


We also don't technically know that those results weren't tampered with either.


----------



## Mawile

Mawile said:


> We also don't technically know that those results weren't tampered with either.


re: their alignment flips on death

(you must wait 7 seconds before performing this action)


----------



## mewtini

i'm pretty sure ILS isn't mafia though, if VM is to be believed. i think that or eifie would be as close to certain as we can get


----------



## M&F

mewtini said:


> MF is there any indication in your pm to make it seem like you are an insane cop? (i.e. is it possible rari also just doesn't know/hasn't figured it out?)


one of the defining aspects of the Inspector Lestrade as a trope is that they tend to be completely wrong, so that Detective Protagonist looks more impressive when they're right. flavoristically, I suppose that'd lend credence to the existance of an actual sane cop among us, and if so that'd presumably be rari_teh, but the rub is that I can fully tell that their N2 result is incorrect, eh? but then, their N1 result matches one of mine, so... yeah see, this is a goddamn nightmare to untangle, and it is so before we even start assuming absolute truthfulness



Mist1422 said:


> rari being insane is unlikely because that contradicts eifie's clear on ultracool


goyvens, now I can't remember whether Eifie's mech clear was ultracool or, well, you



rari_teh said:


> Or she/I was deflected on N2.


that there's also a possibility I neglected to raise; I suppose that my experience as a GM in games that often do have redirectors is that, well... they're very often brought up in cases where there was no redirection at all, but in the rare occasions that they acquire a meaningful result, folks seldom consider redirection. it be like that I guess. if we do make that assumption though, we'd have to start asking ourselves what agenda a redirector could possibly have in the case-at-hand, because a town redirector normally has no reason to use their power much without duress (and less still not to claim if there's a possibility of such shedding light on a confusing situation), while a mafia redirector would probably have preferred one of two claimed healers last night.



rari_teh said:


> I was thinking how this option seems to make the most sense and an idea hit me: if we don’t lynch you or Mawile today, why don’t you inspect ILS next Night? If he also flips red, the random gods would _really_ have to be mocking you if you can see green at all…


re this, investigating myself, etc.: soz, my PM specifies that I target alive, non-self players. I suppose the next best thing would be to target someone who reads very strongly town to us

also -- I feel like Eifie's mech clear may have come from outside of her own role, which is why we should stop speculating about it immediately. it's the exact thing she told us not to do even!


----------



## rari_teh

Mawile said:


> We also don't technically know that those results weren't tampered with either.


ILS’s probably wasn’t, since Negrek confirmed he was a White Mage and VM claimed to inherit it.

…unless Negrek, VM and ILS are mafia [wifom.rmvb]


----------



## mewtini

M&F said:


> goyvens, now I can't remember whether Eifie's mech clear was ultracool or, well, you


the mech clear that she hardclaimed was on ultracool iirc


----------



## mewtini

M&F said:


> I suppose that'd lend credence to the existance of an actual sane cop among us, and if so that'd presumably be rari_teh, but the rub is that I can fully tell that their N2 result is incorrect, eh?


tbh i feel like, considering all the weird goings-on, the occam's razor approach is to assume that rari got redirected? (but then that's a whole other thing. maybe there is no razor approach here)


----------



## Novae

mewtini said:


> the mech clear that she hardclaimed was on ultracool iirc


this

she had a fake n0 on me that she said was cover when she hardclaimed the ultracool clear


----------



## mewtini

or that rari just lied i guess. but idk if there was a reason for them to do that when they did



Spoiler



aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa


----------



## Mawile

mewtini said:


> a


oh same


----------



## rari_teh

M&F said:


> that there's also a possibility I neglected to raise; I suppose that my experience as a GM in games that often do have redirectors is that, well... they're very often brought up in cases where there was no redirection at all, but in the rare occasions that they acquire a meaningful result, folks seldom consider redirection. it be like that I guess. if we do make that assumption though, we'd have to start asking ourselves what agenda a redirector could possibly have in the case-at-hand, because a town redirector normally has no reason to use their power much without duress (and less still not to claim if there's a possibility of such shedding light on a confusing situation), while a mafia redirector would probably have preferred one of two claimed healers last night.


Maybe kyeugh is the redirector and, suspecting me of being mafia, pointed me to someone she found seedy

I agree that the odds of redirector shenanigans are very dim, though. I think that Occam’s razor would dictate that your role makes you flip red despite not being so.


----------



## Stryke

Whoa wait what the fuck


----------



## Stryke

I healed Eifie


----------



## mewtini

rari_teh said:


> Maybe kyeugh is the redirector and, suspecting me of being mafia, pointed me to someone she found seedy


hm. if this were the case i don't think she would have gone a bit out on a limb to confirm there's a redirector among us?



rari_teh said:


> I think that Occam’s razor would dictate that your role makes you flip red despite not being so.


this feels more unlikely to me than a redirect landing


----------



## mewtini

Stryke said:


> I healed Eifie


ohshit.jpg

So Maybe Here Is A Redirect


----------



## rari_teh

Stryke said:


> Whoa wait what the fuck


Here’s a recap for you:

- I’m a cop. n0 green on Ultracool, n1 red on Mawile, n2 red on M&F
- M&F claims insane cop. n0 red on Mawile, n1 red on Negrek, n2 red on Keldeo

Confusion ensues


----------



## Mawile

Stryke said:


> I healed Eifie


----------



## Stryke

Havent had a chance to read through the thread yet so ill do that now but wtf


----------



## mewtini

wait actually someone redirecting stryke would make so much sense, since he'd made a doctor claim :T


----------



## rari_teh

Stryke said:


> I healed Eifie


VM must’ve healed Eifie as well! :o


----------



## Stryke

Goddammit i was THIS close to being helpful


----------



## mewtini

rari_teh said:


> VM must’ve healed Eifie as well! :o


i forgot this was a possibility


----------



## Mawile

Stryke said:


> Goddammit i was THIS close to being helpful


you KILLED her


----------



## mewtini

just going to lay down a ping rq @Vipera Magnifica when you get the chance. who did you heal?


----------



## Stryke

Mawile said:


> you KILLED her


IT MIGHTVE BEEN A GROUP EFFORT


----------



## Mawile

Stryke said:


> IT MIGHTVE BEEN A GROUP EFFORT


YOURE STILL AN ACCOMPLICE TO MURDER


----------



## mewtini

so either a) overdose or b) redirect, yeah?


----------



## rari_teh

mewtini said:


> hm. if this were the case i don't think she would have gone a bit out on a limb to confirm there's a redirector among us?


She could have gone “oh shit, they’re a cop and I’ve accidentally cast suspicion on M&F!” and confirmed the existence of a redirector to give credibility to the possibility that a redirector made M&F flip red.


----------



## Stryke

Ftr I have no clue if doctor clash actually kills the target since the PM doesnt clarify


----------



## Mawile

Stryke said:


> Ftr I have no clue if doctor clash actually kills the target since the PM doesnt clarify


One of the Mysterious Informant info things said that you guys hate each other so maybe that means your heals clash to kill the target


----------



## rari_teh

Though if Eif died of medicine clash/overdose, why didn’t anyone else die? Why did the mafia not kill anyone?


----------



## Mawile

rari_teh said:


> Though if Eif died of medicine clash/overdose, why didn’t anyone else die? Why did the mafia not kill anyone?


inb4 mafia also targeted Eifie


----------



## mewtini

rari_teh said:


> She could have gone “oh shit, they’re a cop and I’ve accidentally cast suspicion on M&F!” and confirmed the existence of a redirector to give credibility to the possibility that a redirector made M&F flip red.


idk tbh. it was riskier of her to have to make any "just trust me" claim than to do it another way i feel like? i am also biased since kyeugh is my strongest non-roleclaimed townread



Stryke said:


> Ftr I have no clue if doctor clash actually kills the target since the PM doesnt clarify


someone with a better memory, i thought nanobot dr and white mage were the ones that didn't get along?

i also forgot that stryke's doctor claim was so recent compared to rari's d1 cop cover, so i'm dropping the idea of rari getting redirected
which leads back into MF/rari drama again


----------



## Stryke

Mawile said:


> One of the Mysterious Informant info things said that you guys hate each other so maybe that means your heals clash to kill the target


yeah it does say that but doesnt elaborate. at first i thought it meant that the two healings cancel out and the target just doesnt get healed but *shrug*


----------



## rari_teh

I’ll head off to eat something, bbl


----------



## Stryke

also VM if youre out there we are rivals now and we must duel


----------



## Mawile

mewtini said:


> someone with a better memory, i thought nanobot dr and white mage were the ones that didn't get along?


Stryke is nanobots and VM is white mage, so yes, they don't get along.


----------



## mewtini

Stryke said:


> yeah it does say that but doesnt elaborate. at first i thought it meant that the two healings cancel out and the target just doesnt get healed but *shrug*


i think it's more likely that it's an overdose than a neutralization

uhhhh this may be a dumb thing to bring up but the flavor for eifie was still the same as the other (presumably) mafia kills. what do we think about that? also iirc the heals were done on a coin-flip principle, weren't they - idk if i totally think it was a clash over a redirect


----------



## Negrek

Don't have time to contribute meaningfully tonight--tomorrow I'll try to go through and compile a list of role and action claims to try and untangle what's been going on at night.

But remember that if you're positing healer clash for Eifie's death last night, you need to explain what happened to the actual mafia kill.


----------



## Zori

rari_teh said:


> Welp, blame kyeugh on this one. I’m lighting my cigarrette, for this is almost certainly my last Day alive.
> 
> I am a Private Detective and my power is Stalking Mission. Which means, I’m a regular alignment cop. No quirks that I know of.
> 
> N0 Mr. Ultracool: not mafia
> N1 Mawile: mafia
> N2 M&F: mafia
> 
> That is all information I got. I hope we do the right thing.


nice
*M&F*
we should lynch this first, since there are no strings attached


----------



## mewtini

Negrek said:


> But remember that if you're positing healer clash for Eifie's death last night, you need to explain what happened to the actual mafia kill.


yeah this is why i'm pretty reluctant to guess at a clash, but i think a redirect away (since the doctorclaims were so visible and recent) is likely, especially when eifie's death seems to match flavor with the other mafia kills


----------



## mewtini

Seshas said:


> *M&F*
> we should lynch this first, since there are no strings attached


also this is why i was kind of preferring MF before mawile/feeling weird as the day began since at least herbe isn't attached. but now i don't know what to feel since MF's roleclaim is so ... thorough?


----------



## Zori

I feel like M&F would be thorough with their role claim regardless of alignment
since they're so thorough with everything else


----------



## Stryke

rari_teh said:


> Here’s a recap for you:
> 
> - I’m a cop. n0 green on Ultracool, n1 red on Mawile, n2 red on M&F
> - M&F claims insane cop. n0 red on Mawile, n1 red on Negrek, n2 red on Keldeo
> 
> Confusion ensues


Read through all the posts prior to mine and I massively appreciate this bc it is hard for me to process that much text so thx for the cliff notes!



mewtini said:


> yeah no i agree! just felt weird about voting >: mostly because i thought we were also waiting to hear from @Stryke in light of yesterDay's events


so whatd you wanna know, specifically?


----------



## Zori

If Stryke was redirected N2, then rari is less likely to have been


----------



## mewtini

Seshas said:


> I feel like M&F would be thorough with their role claim regardless of alignment
> since they're so thorough with everything else


hmm. maybe fair. also seshas while you're here, do you have any overall thoughts on anything else?


----------



## mewtini

Stryke said:


> so whatd you wanna know, specifically?


pretty much it was just me wondering who you'd healed to see if anything would line up!


----------



## Zori

mewtini said:


> hmm. maybe fair. also seshas while you're here, do you have any overall thoughts on anything else?


I'm going to go look back at EoD with M!M&F and M!Mawile in mind tomorrow probably


----------



## Stryke

mewtini said:


> pretty much it was just me wondering who you'd healed to see if anything would line up!


Herbe N0, VM N1, Eifie N2

N0 was just random, N1 was because I thought VM was gonna get targeted bc he seemed like he wanted out of the game, N2 was bc Eifie told me to flip a coin between VM and any other person to heal, it landed on not VM, and I picked Eifie bc she seemed like a driving force behind the town discussion (esp since everyone tended to sheep her)

Really not sure why I didnt get stuck with lovers with Herbe, if what hes saying lines up... maybe Mawiles action took precedence over mine ig


----------



## mewtini

another few comments: seshas mentioning a thorough MF claim makes sense when paranoid (all-red) cop is the easiest of the cop types to fake, and it could have happened in order to discredit rari? idk - it also seems massively unlikely ~in my heart~ that there are two cops that are both insane/impaired in some way and i have more long-game desire to trust rari than MF but. obviously something is getting manipulated in the current tangle of things


----------



## mewtini

thanks for the recap!


Stryke said:


> Really not sure why I didnt get stuck with lovers with Herbe, if what hes saying lines up... maybe Mawiles action took precedence over mine ig


huh. this is an interesting point. idk if it seems like an answerable question


----------



## Negrek

On that note, if any of you out there have any information along the lines of "all cops are useless" or that otherwise mentions cops, now is probably going to be the most useful time to reveal it.


----------



## M&F

Seshas said:


> I'm going to go look back at EoD with M!M&F and M!Mawile in mind tomorrow probably


I can already give you this much for free: I was absent throughout EoD yesterday

also, now that all my cards are on the table, I suppose I consent to being lynched if it'll help gather information for town, much as I'd have liked a few more swings at figuring out what the hell is my sanity



Negrek said:


> On that note, if any of you out there have any information along the lines of "all cops are useless" or that otherwise mentions cops, now is probably going to be the most useful time to reveal it.


I have information that all cops are useless! but that's in real life, not in the game-


----------



## mewtini

M&F said:


> I have information that all cops are useless! but that's in real life, not in the game-


royalty status remark


M&F said:


> I suppose I consent to being lynched if it'll help gather information for town


im sad reacting for this :(


----------



## Zori

imo more likely rari was redirected than rari is insane


----------



## mewtini

Seshas said:


> imo more likely rari was redirected than rari is insane


i agree - am just trying to figure out with my new suspicion that stryke's heal was redirected


----------



## Mawile

Stryke said:


> Really not sure why I didnt get stuck with lovers with Herbe, if what hes saying lines up... maybe Mawiles action took precedence over mine ig


I mean it would make sense in terms of flavor for my role to have presedence, seeing as a motion detector needs to set up and watch for any movement all night, so I wouldn't get accurate results if you healed before I set up.


----------



## rari_teh

Mawile said:


> inb4 mafia also targeted Eifie


This doesn’t line up for me, honestly. Our running theory is that mafia targeted Boquise N1 because he wasn’t likely to be healed – I think we all can agree that Eifie had an obvious big target painted on her back after her cop roleplay and shepherding.


Stryke said:


> Really not sure why I didnt get stuck with lovers with Herbe, if what hes saying lines up... maybe Mawiles action took precedence over mine ig


I was thinking about this as well – the action that goes first should take precedence to everything (isn’t that a ground rule?), so you should have become stuck to Herbe, not Mawile. We (supposedly) know your action came first because if Mawile detects motion, his action should come after all motion is made.

My theory is that either you were roleblocked/redirected n0 or Herbe is full of shit.


----------



## Stryke

Mawile said:


> I mean it would make sense in terms of flavor for my role to have presedence, seeing as a motion detector needs to set up and watch for any movement all night, so I wouldn't get accurate results if you healed before I set up.


that would make sense, but it does raise the question of how you didnt notice me that night (that is what you said right?)


----------



## mewtini

rari_teh said:


> We (supposedly) know your action came first because if Mawile detects motion, his action should come after all motion is made.


i thought it was decided that mawile isn't motion-detector no matter what tbh


----------



## Mawile

Stryke said:


> that would make sense, but it does raise the question of how you didnt notice me that night (that is what you said right?)


Yeah, I got results of not seeing anything happen that night, but I wonder if me getting stuck to Herbe could have thrown that off somehow?


----------



## rari_teh

rari_teh said:


> My theory is that either you were roleblocked/redirected n0 or Herbe is full of shit.


(Or /you/ are full of shit, but that has been seeming less and less likely for me for some reason)


----------



## Stryke

rari_teh said:


> I was thinking about this as well – the action that goes first should take precedence to everything (isn’t that a ground rule?), so you should have become stuck to Herbe, not Mawile. We (supposedly) know your action came first because if Mawile detects motion, his action should come after all motion is made.
> 
> My theory is that either you were roleblocked/redirected n0 or Herbe is full of shit.


Oh yeah, that makes sense too; when Mawile said it, I was thinking like "oh, his action came last so that would be the one that takes effect since theres nothing to come after it and wipe out that connection", but now I'm not so sure. @Herbe , does it clarify which action takes precedence when more than one person targets you? (like first or last action)


----------



## Zori

I mean, it's possible mafia have something like an even-night strongman


----------



## rari_teh

mewtini said:


> i thought it was decided that mawile isn't motion-detector no matter what tbh


I think I missed something, what have we decided about Mawile’s role then?



Mawile said:


> I wonder if me getting stuck to Herbe could have thrown that off somehow?


I would believe that if Butterfree were using a bot to sort things out and send the PMs: I don’t think that would be intended behaviour. My 2¢


----------



## mewtini

Seshas said:


> I mean, it's possible mafia have something like an even-night strongman


what would this mean?


----------



## Mawile

rari_teh said:


> I think I missed something, what have we decided about Mawile’s role then?


I'm curious about this too.


----------



## mewtini

Negrek said:


> Basically, I wasn't feeling a Mawile lynch last night, but then Mawile said that they'd motion-detected Herbe N0 and gotten no movement. Stryke then popped up to claim they'd healed Herbe N0, which, if Mawile was _actually_ a motion detector, would have registered as activity.





mewtini said:


> yeah - we all mentioned EoD that motion-detecting was impossibly easy to fake, but looking back mawile could've said this after an attempted mafia kill? (since herbe said that mawile got trapped/loverized n0.) in which case it makes sense that mawile would choose herbe to fakeclaim this about; herbe would have no reason to counter, and lying and saying the motion-detect attempt went to anyone else would be significantly riskier
> 
> that scenario doesn't really say anything about stryke's claim, though, since i'm assuming herbe's role actually made him immune to a kill attempt, so that leaves us at null. either way i agree that a mawile flip will reveal more than an MF one - i kinda think that since this is looking like we'll hit an early consensus (? again knock on wood) that a lot of time can go into talking about/with MF and stryke, etc





Negrek said:


> or you [Mawile] have a non-kill mafia night action and another mafioso went for Jack





mewtini said:


> hrm. and it wouldn't stack up if that non-kill action were motion detector either, right, due to stryke's claim





Negrek said:


> That's how I would interpret it.


----------



## mewtini

sorry, i thought rari internalized/processed it because they'd reacted to all of my posts in that chain


----------



## mewtini

and if mawile is red as the copreads have said, the redirector wouldn't have targeted him.


----------



## M&F

fwiw, I suppose it'd be possible that the mob figured eifie was a safe kill on the assumption that the doctors would have more interest in protecting each other than an inno with a claim-not-claim

anyways, the thing we really need in order to get us on track with the night action speculation is confirmation as to who VM is targeting, so... someone mention him, because I have no idea if I'm getting the code on that right,


----------



## rari_teh

mewtini said:


> sorry, i thought rari internalized/processed it because they'd reacted to all of my posts in that chain


My finger is sometimes faster than my brain. Thanks for the recap!


----------



## mewtini

M&F said:


> anyways, the thing we really need in order to get us on track with the night action speculation is confirmation as to who VM is targeting, so... someone mention him, because I have no idea if I'm getting the code on that right,


yeah hahah. i pinged him earlier but now We Wait


----------



## Zori

mewtini said:


> what would this mean?


Strongman is a role that, when used, allows a kill to go through doctors
The point is that Mafia could have a doctor-bypassing ability that only works on even nights


----------



## Zori

Which may why the Bosquie kill seemed so off


----------



## Zori

Some sort of doctor bypass role for mafia doesn't seem that unlikely, especially since we've had 3 doctors so far, 2 of which have flipped not mafia


----------



## Zori

I probably should be going to bed now


----------



## rari_teh

Let’s wait and see whether the N3 kill will seem off


----------



## rari_teh

Seshas said:


> I probably should be going to bed now


Same. My brain isn’t working right anymore


----------



## mewtini

rari_teh said:


> Let’s wait and see whether the N3 kill will seem off


maybe the mafia will be very nice to us and not kill anyone. :D


----------



## rari_teh

mewtini said:


> why cant we all just get along tbh.....! hardclaim there is no mafia. we are all just bffs


Fridge Horror: We’re all BFFs… who paranoidly doubt each other to the point of murder


----------



## Mawile

rari_teh said:


> Fridge Horror: We’re all BFFs… who paranoidly doubt each other to the point of murder


Is this not how friends usually work?


----------



## rari_teh

With these lovely thoughts, I’m signing off to sleep. Good night everybody! <3


----------



## kyeugh

Negrek said:


> On that note, if any of you out there have any information along the lines of "all cops are useless" or that otherwise mentions cops, now is probably going to be the most useful time to reveal it.


acab


----------



## Zori

My brain: I am going to bed
My brain 30 seconds later: I will never ever go to bed


----------



## Mawile

kyeugh said:


> acab


can i claim i'm an MI now and my information just said this


----------



## kyeugh

i know who the redirector is. i haven’t said so because i don’t know if it’s the right time to reveal that information, or if it’s my place. what do you guys think?


----------



## Stryke

kyeugh said:


> i know who the redirector is. i haven’t said so because i don’t know if it’s the right time to reveal that information, or if it’s my place. what do you guys think?


I mean, I would kind of like to hear it: maybe it can shed some light on why Mawile didnt see me N0, or why my kill didnt go through last night


----------



## Stryke

Stryke said:


> I mean, I would kind of like to hear it: maybe it can shed some light on why Mawile didnt see me N0, or why my kill didnt go through last night


******HEAL NOT KILL


----------



## Negrek

Stryke said:


> ******HEAL NOT KILL


I am going to frame this post.


----------



## kyeugh

oooook


----------



## Mawile

Stryke said:


> ******HEAL NOT KILL


----------



## kyeugh

Stryke said:


> ******HEAL NOT KILL


----------



## mewtini

im losing my mind


----------



## kyeugh

hard read flora is nanomachine doc and stryke is nefarious scum indeed


----------



## Negrek

(fwiw kyeugh I would say for now let the redirector wait to come forward if they feel comfortable. I don't think it's CRITICAL that we know who they are, although it would certainly help a lot to know who they targeted)

(also not excluding the possibility of their being multiple redirect powers)


----------



## Negrek

*there

possibly going back to work now, but this is really more entertaining


----------



## Stryke

if this typo just ruined whatever credibility i had left i will be very upset with myself


----------



## Mawile

Stryke said:


> if this typo just ruined whatever credibility i had left i will be very upset with myself


i can't believe you're the killer


----------



## kyeugh

Negrek said:


> (fwiw kyeugh I would say for now let the redirector wait to come forward if they feel comfortable. I don't think it's CRITICAL that we know who they are, although it would certainly help a lot to know who they targeted)
> 
> (also not excluding the possibility of their being multiple redirect powers)


ok, this is how i feel too. i selfishly want to say it just so they can come confirm/clear me lol but i will keep mum for now.
however, if someone claims that isn’t the person i’m thinking of, i will say so.


----------



## mewtini

kyeugh said:


> ok, this is how i feel too. i selfishly want to say it just so they can come confirm/clear me lol but i will keep mum for now.
> however, if someone claims that isn’t the person i’m thinking of, i will say so.


tbh i don't think you're under suspicion/in a position where you need to say anything. at least i'm v comfortable just vibing

also while iconic, stryke's typo still means nothing, doesn't it? as far as alignment goes. considering that eifie was The Mafia Kill


----------



## kyeugh

mewtini said:


> tbh i don't think you're under suspicion/in a position where you need to say anything. at least i'm v comfortable just vibing


 it never hurts!



mewtini said:


> also while iconic, stryke's typo still means nothing, doesn't it? as far as alignment goes. considering that eifie was The Mafia Kill


unless..?


----------



## kyeugh

i can’t wait until keldeo logs on.

keldeoooooo!


----------



## mewtini

kyeugh said:


> haha jk. unless..?


is there actually a scenario where stryke's typo is significant? i'm guessing there are no more vigs ......unless..?


----------



## mewtini

mewtini said:


> is there actually a scenario where stryke's typo is significant?


other than the pure unadulterated power of the typo itself that is lmfao



kyeugh said:


> keldeoooooo!


----------



## Mawile

mewtini said:


> is there actually a scenario where stryke's typo is significant? i'm guessing there are no more vigs ......unless..?


For what it's worth, I can't imagine why you would want to claim doctor and actually be vig. Unless you're both


----------



## mewtini

hehe yeah. i mostly was trying to prevent the Epic Scenario of someone reading back and going "omfg why aren't you guys talking about this?!?!?!?!?!" by at least having SOMEone mention it


----------



## kyeugh

Mawile said:


> For what it's worth, I can't imagine why you would want to claim doctor and actually be vig. Unless you're both


 simply claim to have protected people who didn’t die, and when it fails point at the mafia or suggest redirection
hey wait a minute


----------



## kyeugh

jk no shade


----------



## Stryke

kyeugh said:


> i know who the redirector is. i haven’t said so because i don’t know if it’s the right time to reveal that information, or if it’s my place. what do you guys think?


hey just out of curiosity how did you find out? unless that would be giving away more than youre comfortable w/ right now which is cool and i respect that


----------



## Mawile

I keep refreshing and there's no new posts. I would like entertainment


----------



## mewtini

a follow-up q, but feel free to avoid it if you wish: is the redirector not mafia-aligned then? i'd been operating under that assumption


----------



## mewtini

that one kinda goes out to anyone. i just thought it was normally a red role


----------



## Herbe

hey yall i finished my homework and skimming through the thread these things popped up in view:



rari_teh said:


> My theory is that either you were roleblocked/redirected n0 or Herbe is full of shit.


bit harsh, yeah? 



Stryke said:


> Really not sure why I didnt get stuck with lovers with Herbe, if what hes saying lines up... maybe Mawiles action took precedence over mine ig





Stryke said:


> does it clarify which action takes precedence when more than one person targets you?


i think it would be the first person in the night action lineup? and wouldn't doc go near the end, cause if someone gets attacked, doc heals them afterward. meanwhile motion detector would set up/get stuck first. (also to y'all hypothesizing that he tried to murder me N1: he would still have gotten stuck before stryke came to heal)

i can deep read and offer more thoughts in the future. sorry for going awol while so much was happening


----------



## Herbe

also if anyone has questions for me ill answer best i can


----------



## Mawile

Herbe said:


> also if anyone has questions for me ill answer best i can


how do you feel about people trying to lynch me


----------



## Herbe

Mawile said:


> how do you feel about people trying to lynch me


not a fan of it, not one bit. didn't think "till death do us part" would threaten to come so soon.
also i haven't set up your life insurance yet to come to me so i would appreciate some time to set that up


----------



## Mawile

Herbe said:


> not a fan of it, not one bit. didn't think "till death do us part" would threaten to come so soon.
> also i haven't set up your life insurance yet to come to me so i would appreciate some time to set that up


it's ok my lawyer is on the phone w/ me right now and he says he can get it to you right away upon my death


----------



## kyeugh

Stryke said:


> hey just out of curiosity how did you find out? unless that would be giving away more than youre comfortable w/ right now which is cool and i respect that


don’t really want to say right now. 


mewtini said:


> a follow-up q, but feel free to avoid it if you wish: is the redirector not mafia-aligned then? i'd been operating under that assumption


idk, wouldn’t rule it out.


----------



## mewtini

Herbe said:


> also if anyone has questions for me ill answer best i can


no qs, but ily bb


----------



## Herbe

mewtini said:


> no qs, but ily bb





Spoiler: mawile don't look



ily too


----------



## Keldeo

Hey. Too tired to go back in much detail, so here's my take on mech stuff.

I know it's weird with Negrek's result and the flavor text, but I kinda don't think Eifie was a vig? She would absolutely shoot people regardless of her sentiment about wanting to keep folks around, because it's the #mechanicallycorrect thing to do. I don't know what that means wrt Negrek, though... I can't imagine why Negrek would lie about Eifie's trope? So I guess what I'm thinking is that her result got changed somehow, but that's kinda weird.

I also kinda doubt that Eifie had an alignment inspection ability because she seemed pretty unsure of her hypocop n0 on Mist. So I think I'd agree with Negrek that it seems more likely that something not involving her own power convinced her of that clear on Ultracool. I guess "vig, but you die if you shoot a townie" is a possibility, but it seems like kind of a mean role in a game like this one with weird information stuff going on.

Assuming that Herbe and Mawile are actually lovers, I think it makes perfect sense that Herbe would say that Mawile is town, no matter what either of their alignments are or what they know about the other, for simple self-preservation. 

I'm still... not really sure what to think about the Mawile motion detection/Stryke healing Herbe business. I actually kind of believe that Mawile is telling the truth about his role regardless of alignment, because multiple "no motion" claims is pretty bold, but then I don't see why he would have gotten the wrong result result n0. (alternatively, as mewtini/Negrek have posited, he's lying about his role and wants to out townies with actions since he's already on the chopping block)

If the redirector kyeugh mentioned is town and has any relevant information - which, imo, includes _not_ having redirected someone with relevant actions where there is a conflict that could be resolved via a redirect - I think they should definitely reveal. kyeugh, if the redirector doesn't reveal, I feel like you should probably reveal who they are because that seems a little bit suspicious to me?



Mawile said:


> I mean it would make sense in terms of flavor for my role to have presedence, seeing as a motion detector needs to set up and watch for any movement all night, so I wouldn't get accurate results if you healed before I set up.


This idea doesn't make any sense to me - what's the point of a motion detector who can't detect some motion?

--

@Herbe, I'm interested in why you believed at first that rari's result was tampered with n1 and not, like, that they were mafia trying to incriminate you? I can guess, but I don't want to assume when I can hear from you.

@rari_teh Can you talk to me about your end of day yesterday, and why you swapped off Mawile onto Stryke and Odie / didn't try to convince more people to go on Mawile? I'm not like, saying that you're lying - I don't know why you would in this situation, really - but your EOD just seems kind of hands-off about him, especially since at least kyeugh was interested in the wagon and it seems like you were convinced that Mawile was mafia. Also, can you walk me through if and how your positions on Stryke and Herbe's relative alignments to Mawile changed during the EOD?

@kyeugh I'm interested in "the info you mentioned at the last second yesterday" if you think it's appropriate to reveal. Unless that's just the redirector thing?



Mawile said:


> To be fair, I also had the issue of having to realize that my flavor text gave me Actual Important Information, so you're not alone there.


@Mawile - sorry, I don't understand the above post, can you explain? Also, could you explain your d1 post that was kinda shading Herbe - if Herbe was confirmed town to you, why was his focus on Mewtini weird?

--

@Eifie eternal 



Spoiler






Mist1422 said:


> inspect yourself
> 
> simple easy


I made this meme almost exactly two years ago (when I randed cop in a MFia, fittingly) and finally I get to use it


----------



## Keldeo

Alright, here's a hopefully exhaustive summary of unresolved mechanical or weird stuff. I would like to make an actual list/summary at some point unless someone gets to it before me.

I'll be back with non-mech stuff, like, at some point. I think the wagons should be Mawile/MF today pending more info.  


*Jack's flip:* JackPK flipped not mafia on N0. ILS claimed to be doctor and flipped not mafia on D1. VM claimed D1 that his role is to inherit the first "non-mafia" to die. VM said D2 that he inherited White Mage, a doctor role. Negrek said D1 that Deadly Doctor was Jack's role, and D2 that White Mage was ILS's role. 
— some possible resolutions: Jack was not mafia and an exception to VM's role; Jack wasn't "not mafia" even though he flipped that way; someone's lying

*Mawile / Stryke motion detection results:* Mawile claimed D2 to motion detect Herbe N0, seeing "no motion". Stryke claimed later D2 that he healed Herbe N0. Herbe claimed to be loverized to the first person to target him, and that he was loverized to Mawile. 
— some possible resolutions: Stryke was roleblocked or redirected N0; Mawile's result was altered N0 and his action took priority for Herbe's lovering thing; someone's lying

*rari_teh / MF cop results:*
- Rari claims sane cop: N0 green on Ultracool, N1 red on Mawile, N2 red on M&F
- M&F claims possibly insane cop: N0 red on Mawile, N1 red on Negrek, N2 red on Keldeo
- Eifie claimed D2 that she had a N1 green on Mr. Ultracool (we don't know how)
— some possible resolutions: Rari is sane, MF is insane, either [MF's N0 Mawile result or Rari's N1 Mawile result was altered] or [MF gets all red all the time], and Rari's N2 MF result was altered; or someone's lying

*Eifie's death:* Stryke claimed he healed Eifie N2, Eifie died anway.
— some possible resolutions: healer clash on Eifie N2; Stryke was roleblocked or redirected N2; the kill on Eifie bypassed protection somehow; Stryke is lying


*Death flavor:* No one has been physically wounded. Jack died outside indignant, Boq died in his bed smiling, Eif died in an alleyway with a gun. 

*VM's whisper:* VM claimed D2 to have gotten an anonymous message saying kyeugh isn't mafia. We don't know where it came from.

*Mysterious Informant info:* IndigoEmmy claimed D1 that the nanobot doctor (Stryke) and magic doctor (ILS->VM) don't get along, and we don't know what that means. Seshas claimed D1 that "mafia are pulling strings", and we don't know what that means. Odie_pie's info has been lost in time... like tears in rain...

*Unflipped people's roles:* We don't know them. According to Negrek, JackPK was Deadly Doctor, Boquise was A God Am I, Eifie was Vigilante Man, Odie was Mysterious Informant.


----------



## Keldeo

Oh, I never actually mentioned, I think my current assumption about the cop situation is that Rari is just a sane cop, Mawile/MF are just mafia, and Stryke is just the town doctor. 

MF's claim does seem really involved, but I don't think that changes the fact that the above seems to be the simplest case...? If she is actually not mafia, I guess my next assumption would be that she gets red results all the time, and Rari is sane and got messed with on N2, so then Mawile is still mafia, since that also helps to resolve the Stryke situation, I think.


----------



## Keldeo

Also @kyeugh can you talk to me about how your previous rari suspicion meshes with the conflicting claims between them and MF? I'm coming at this from a previously pretty pro-rari stance, so would be interested to hear more on your take.


(not ordered within tiers)
*Non-mech good feels:* kyeugh, mewtini, rari_teh
*Mech good feels:* Negrek, VM, IndigoEmmy, Seshas, Ultracool, Stryke, maybe Ottercopter
*Should probably be able to sort, but idk:* kokorico, Panini, Mist1422
*Less active folks:* Flora, serimachi, RedneckPhoenix
*Mech bad feels:* Mawile (+ Herbe by association), MF

Feel like I have too many in the higher tiers, but not quite sure yet where I'd be wrong. Given only what we know now, probably lunching through the bottom tier for now and then reevaluating with whatever pops out? If someone strongly disagrees with something here, please talk to me about it.

Unfortunately I'm still pretty busy so I'm not sure how much I can do for the rest of the Day, but I'll try to be here.


----------



## Keldeo

Oh also, I was rereading Eifie's memefest overnight, and I remembered that RNP randomly volunteering information about his role is like, moderately greater than random chance to be town for him.


----------



## Mr. Ultracool

Herbe said:


> I wish there was a  react emoji bc thats how im feeling about the vigging otter scenario.
> 
> Unless - hear me out negrek - you think maybe there's a swapper? who interfered with your role maybe? I don't know how that's possible, entirely, but just brainstorming here


Yeah, there is, indeed, a role swapper. The identity of him ties into Eifies Mech Clear of me, because it was me! N0, I started as a BodySwapper, a role that can steal that of another player by quoting him or her and inserting the phrase "it's not you, it's me" into the reply. Thus, I gained the role that Eifie _used_ to have before she swapped to Vigilante, allowing her to know that I am an innocent.


----------



## Mr. Ultracool

Also, my new role is basically a blue, as I'm a Mysterious Informant confirming the existence of an Evil Doctor. Since there was the suspicion that JackPK had been the DD, I'd think it's useless?


----------



## qenya

^ That's entirely plausible because Eifie also invoked the magic words on D2 against Keldeo, here: https://forums.dragonflycave.com/threads/forum-revival-tv-tropes-mafia-revival-d3.18577/post-675270

That means (assuming you're trustworthy) that Keldeo was the vig and is now the bodyswapper.

@Keldeo, earlier you said vig!Eifie "would absolutely shoot people regardless of her sentiment about wanting to keep folks around, because it's the #mechanicallycorrect thing to do". On the assumption that you also do #mechanicallycorrect things, if you were the vig in N0 and N1, who did you target? Or, alternatively, is this sequence of events not what actually happened?

Apologies I missed the first few hours of D3 - gotta sleep sometime. Catching up now.


----------



## qenya

kokorico said:


> Catching up now.


Wow okay what the fuck


----------



## kyeugh

Keldeo said:


> @kyeugh I'm interested in "the info you mentioned at the last second yesterday" if you think it's appropriate to reveal. Unless that's just the redirector thing?


yes, basically.


----------



## Mr. Ultracool

kokorico said:


> Wow okay what the fuck


Was there something important that happened on D2? I somewhat gave up on following that one as the page count seemed to double every time I visited the site


----------



## IndigoClaudia

lol i can't catch up to this... this is gonna take forever.


----------



## IndigoClaudia

HELL EIFIE DIED!!!?!?!?! whoa plot twist.


----------



## kyeugh

Mr. Ultracool said:


> Was there something important that happened on D2? I somewhat gave up on following that one as the page count seemed to double every time I visited the site


can you give a summary of your current understanding of the game?


----------



## IndigoClaudia

ok i've been skimming through and i saw this beauty.


rari_teh said:


> Fridge Horror: We’re all BFFs… who paranoidly doubt each other to the point of murder





Mawile said:


> Is this not how friends usually work?


----------



## IndigoClaudia

Making that my signature.


----------



## Mr. Ultracool

kyeugh said:


> can you give a summary of your current understanding of the game?


Well, I read through D1 and D3, but I stopped at around page 50 or so of D2


----------



## IndigoClaudia

Spoiler: Kind of off topic-ish?



I can't get the random signature thing to work aaack


----------



## IndigoClaudia

Spoiler: Follow up on kind of off-topic ish



If anyone can help it would be greatly appreciated.


----------



## qenya

My thoughts, in no particular order:

*The headline:* Either Mawile's action was redirected somehow, or (more likely, in my opinion, given how many different effects we seem to be attributing to redirectors) he's lying. It's not possible that he targetted me last night and received a result of "no movement". Right now, I think it would be unwise to explain exactly why, but as usual, I realise I'm the novice here and will do so if asked by a reasonable quorum of experienced players.
In case anyone doubted it, my suspicions about Keldeo have basically evaporated. As mafia, he would have had no reason whatsoever to point out the contradiction between Stryke's and Mawile's claims in real time at EOD yesterday, and Mr. Ultracool's claim above (which, like I said, checks out with everything we know so far) basically confirms it. I'm sorry Keldeo pls forgive :_(
I'm feeling a tad less antipathetic towards Stryke than I was yesterday. If Mawile is mafia then the contradiction about who targeted Herbe on N0 goes away, and if he was lying about being the nanotech doc, I don't see why he would falsely claim to have healed the _one person_ who in fact died, when he could claim to have healed pretty much anyone else (VM, for example) and probably gotten away with it.
"Cops": do your result PMs contain the username of the person you (attempted to) target? I know this game is supposed to be unusual in many ways, but I'm extremely doubtful that Butterfree would be evil enough to outright lie to investigative roles about who they inspected. Based on this discussion, I would expect her to either repeat the target back to you (so you know if your action was redirected, and who it was redirected to), or make a habit of _never_ repeating back the target (so you know there is always a possibility that your action was redirected).
Still curious about what vig!Keldeo did on N0 and N1. Or if he claims not to have been the vig at all.


----------



## IndigoClaudia

*Mawile*


----------



## IndigoClaudia

*Awkward silence for 45+ minutes*


----------



## Mr. Ultracool

Well, lynching Mawile or M&F _would _confirm or deny the cop claim, so...

*Lynching Mawile*


----------



## IndigoClaudia

Big Garage (lynching) - Town Square
Everythingone must go.
Well, except townaligned people


----------



## IndigoClaudia

...where is everyone


----------



## qenya

IndigoEmmy said:


> ...where is everyone


This is what a dayphase without Eifie looks like :(


----------



## IndigoClaudia

kokorico said:


> This is what a dayphase without Eifie looks like :(


TODAY FELLOW HUMAN BEANS, i will function as Eifie.


----------



## IndigoClaudia

guys i'm too tired to keep doing this how does eifie do this?



Eifie said:


> I would just like to emphasize that I never promised my game posts will contain meaningful content


----------



## Novae

I can be eifie!

:wowee:


----------



## IndigoClaudia

this is *VERY IMPORTANT*


----------



## Mr. Ultracool

Maybe we should vote for a standin Eifie, knowing fully that they couldn't replace the original?


----------



## IndigoClaudia

Vote in italic for stand-in-eifie


----------



## IndigoClaudia

Vote: _IndigoEmmy _for stand-in eifie


----------



## Mr. Ultracool

Seconding _IndigoEmmy _ for stand-in Eifie.


----------



## Zori

I think I'll pass on the 90 pages that D2 brought


----------



## IndigoClaudia

@Seshas 
Vote for Emmy!
2020 stand in Eifie


----------



## Vipera Magnifica

alright I've skimmed through the last however many pages and am somewhat able to contribute to discussion now

(also i feel kinda bad that everyone was pinging me on Friday; I only saw this after the fact)

I will answer the question you all want to know first: Yes, I sent in my night action last night. No, I did not heal Eifie, so she could not have died from healer clash. I healed kyeugh, and it's extremely unlikely _both_ of our heals could have been redirected.

This turn of events makes me believe Stryke must be telling the truth about his role. I mean, for one, no one counterclaimed him, and if he was just mafia claiming doctor to avoid a lynch, the mafia would have most likely killed me last night since they would know no one else was going to protect me, and in the hypothetical situation where Stryke was one of the mafia he could just say he flipped a coin and healed someone else, and the mafia took a risk.

That also raises the question why anyone would redirect Stryke unless they were mafia... and if the mafia was going to redirect Stryke's action, why not seize the opportunity to kill me? They'd have to know I'm the only one I couldn't heal. So why Eifie? I'd like to hear people's thoughts on this (Also I'm a little hurt there's a role called Vigilante Man and it's not me. I'm changing my trope name to Vigorous Medic if there are no objections.)

As for the whole cop situation, I think we should go ahead and lynch *Mawile* and see if that clears up who is sane. I think it's likely Herbe/Mawile are a town/scum pair, and if that's the case town can't win with them alive. It looks like most of us already had weird vibes about Mawile during the last day phase and only jumped off the bandwagon when Herbe hardclaimed lovers with Mawile. So rari_teh getting a scum read on Mawile only furthers my suspicion that he is the right person to lynch.


----------



## IndigoClaudia

Ok 5 minutes to cast your vote? or something like that?


----------



## Mawile

IndigoEmmy said:


> Ok 5 minutes to cast your vote? or something like that?


Like two days.


----------



## IndigoClaudia

no vote for the stand in Eifie...


----------



## IndigoClaudia

wait... Genius Idea. We should ask Eifie herself and have her nominate a vote as stand-in-eifie, counting as 2 votes!


----------



## Mawile

kokorico said:


> That means (assuming you're trustworthy) that Keldeo was the vig and is now the bodyswapper.


Keldeo hasn't bodyswapped with anyone else yet, right?


----------



## Mr. Ultracool

But isn't asking the dead about game maters somewhat... forbidden?


----------



## Keldeo

Man, I was really hoping you wouldn't claim that today, Mr. Ultracool. Can you do me a favor and not say more about how the power works? 

Yes, Eifie swapped with me yesterDay, which confirms her clear on Ultracool and the fact that I should have inspected as town last night. 

The reason I was dissuading speculation about Eifie being a vigilante was that I was not Vigilante Man but didn't want to say how I knew. I don't think there's any benefit to concealing it now that it's no longer my role - my trope was Non-Action Guy and my power was What Kind Of Lame Power Is Heart Anyway - I couldn't do anything at the start but from how it was written I would have gotten some kind of power upgrade at some point, but now I guess we don't get to know. So Negrek should have gotten that Eifie was Non-Action Guy at the time of her death.





Keldeo said:


> I don't know what that means wrt Negrek, though... I can't imagine why Negrek would lie about Eifie's trope? So I guess what I'm thinking is that her result got changed somehow, but that's kinda weird.


^ this still holds imo


----------



## Mr. Ultracool

Mawile said:


> Keldeo hasn't bodyswapped with anyone else yet, right?


Hey, maybe we could use the Grand Theft Me ability as a kind of cop equivalent? I'd persume it doesn't allow someone to swap with a maf, as the now town- aligned exmaf could simply spill the beans and post all his colleagues' names. So, if it doesn't work, maybe the snatcher could tell us so we can lynch the maf?


----------



## IndigoClaudia

this is Intense


----------



## Keldeo

Ultracool - Yes, we can use it as a cop ability / to build a network of town clears, but now that its activation method is out in the open, it would be harder because mafia can kill the person who gets the ability.

Butterfree couldn't answer my question about what would happen if I swapped with a mafia member, so I wouldn't assume anything. The overriding answer, I guess, is we just don't know what would happen.

@rari_teh I was hoping to swap with you undetected today. Would you mind doing a quote chain where we continually quote each other's posts and say the body swapping phrase? I know how many times it can bounce back in a day, but the mafia don't, which would maybe obscure who is actually the cop. Unless someone has a smarter idea for how to use this ability.


----------



## Mawile

Keldeo said:


> Butterfree couldn't answer my question about what would happen if I swapped with a mafia member, so I wouldn't assume anything. The overriding answer, I guess, is we just don't know what would happen.


I mean, we could try it.


----------



## Mawile

Mawile said:


> I mean, we could try it.


Everyone seems dead-set on me being mafia anyway.


----------



## IndigoClaudia

Sorry, *Mawile.*


----------



## Keldeo

Mawile, I tagged you and asked some questions. Could you answer them?


----------



## Keldeo

Oh, I could also say the body swapping phrase in response to multiple people because I know how Butterfree decides between many instances of the phrase, lol

Body swap cover?!


----------



## IndigoClaudia

so how does bodyswapping work again?


----------



## Mr. Ultracool

IndigoEmmy said:


> so how does bodyswapping work again?


It's not you, it's me.


----------



## Mr. Ultracool

^
Like that.


----------



## Keldeo

Keldeo said:


> @rari_teh I was hoping to swap with you undetected today. Would you mind doing a quote chain where we continually quote each other's posts and say the body swapping phrase? I know how many times it can bounce back in a day, but the mafia don't, which would maybe obscure who is actually the cop. Unless someone has a smarter idea for how to use this ability.


I guess this isn't actually useful because this still narrows the cop down to two people, assuming rari's telling the truth. :V

Ideas for how to use this ability + thoughts on Negrek getting the wrong role for Eifie would be appreciated.


----------



## Mawile

Keldeo said:


> This idea doesn't make any sense to me - what's the point of a motion detector who can't detect some motion?
> 
> @Mawile - sorry, I don't understand the above post, can you explain? Also, could you explain your d1 post that was kinda shading Herbe - if Herbe was confirmed town to you, why was his focus on Mewtini weird?


I mean, people have already established that I'm probably not a motion detector, so there's no need to continue to elaborate, right? You do have a point, it would be useless for a motion detector to not detect motion. I may or may not have been guessing at logistics here.

Re: "To be fair, I also had the issue of having to realize that my flavor text gave me Actual Important Information, so you're not alone there." My role PM had a bunch of flavor text at the top, with links to tropes and whatnot. One of these tropes stuck out to me, and I asked Butterfree if [flavor text trope redacted] meant [information redacted] and that I should/shouldn't [action redacted] because of this information, and it was confirmed to be important and that my assumption was correct. I would prefer to not give away what the flavor text exactly is.

Herbe was obviously confirmed town to me, but I just wanted to essentially publicly force him into trying to share more opinions about people earlier on. I figured that I would probably mess up sooner or later and people would be suspicious of me, and I didn't want people to be suspicious of him too. It's already bad enough that he's stuck in a lovers with me instead of Stryke.


----------



## Stryke

Petition for me to be Herbes jilted ex


----------



## Mawile

Keldeo said:


> Ideas for how to use this ability + thoughts on Negrek getting the wrong role for Eifie would be appreciated.


Maybe switch with someone believed to be town who hasn't roleclaimed?


----------



## IndigoClaudia

*mind blown*


----------



## Keldeo

Also, Eifie showing up with a gun is weird considering that my role had nothing to do with guns. I was thinking maybe someone gave her the gun? I don't think it's a great idea to claim that if that's the case, given we have a redirector running around. The question that idea raises, anyway, is where the first few guns went. Or the mafia could be manipulating the flavor text (possibly also extending to our knowledge of the dead person's flavor?) like Seshas proposed. 

I agree with VM (VVhite Mage) on the most likely situation re: Stryke. It's still weird because if everyone's telling the truth, Eifie had one layer of protection, and if mafia have a way to get around kills I'd expect them to target someone with a claimed useful role, since Eifie hadn't claimed? It could also be possible that someone redirected or blocked Stryke who is anti-town but not aligned with mafia, so they couldn't coordinate with mafia.


----------



## Mr. Ultracool

Mawile said:


> Maybe switch with someone believed to be town who hasn't roleclaimed?


I'd say that this "quote-chain" proposed earlier sounds like a good idea, especially concerning the fact that the switches past that certain threshold wouldn't count anymore.


----------



## Vipera Magnifica

Keldeo said:


> I agree with VM (VVhite Mage) on the most likely situation re: Stryke. It's still weird because if everyone's telling the truth, Eifie had one layer of protection, and if mafia have a way to get around kills I'd expect them to target someone with a claimed useful role, since Eifie hadn't claimed? It could also be possible that someone redirected or blocked Stryke who is anti-town but not aligned with mafia, so they couldn't coordinate with mafia.


VVHITE MAGE YES VERY GOOD

Also I just thought about the possibility someone is a Bus Driver and switched Eifie and the mafia's initial target.

That would resolve something like this:
Stryke heals Eifie
Mafia kills ???
Bus Driver switches Eifie and ???
Stryke's heal goes to ???
Mafia's kill goes to Eifie


----------



## mewtini

i just caught up and: what ... the hell

_Thoughts™:_ coming soon to a forum near you


----------



## IndigoClaudia

mewtini said:


> _Thoughts™:_ coming soon to a forum near you


The only forum near me is the one right in front of me so does this mean...


----------



## rari_teh

Wall of text incoming



Herbe said:


> bit harsh, yeah?


Sorry if that came out as harsh D: (I still think you’re likely to be lying about Mawile’s role, though)


Keldeo said:


> If the redirector kyeugh mentioned is town and has any relevant information - which, imo, includes _not_ having redirected someone with relevant actions where there is a conflict that could be resolved via a redirect - I think they should definitely reveal. kyeugh, if the redirector doesn't reveal, I feel like you should probably reveal who they are because that seems a little bit suspicious to me?


I do agree.


Keldeo said:


> @rari_teh Can you talk to me about your end of day yesterday, and why you swapped off Mawile onto Stryke and Odie / didn't try to convince more people to go on Mawile? I'm not like, saying that you're lying - I don't know why you would in this situation, really - but your EOD just seems kind of hands-off about him, especially since at least kyeugh was interested in the wagon and it seems like you were convinced that Mawile was mafia. Also, can you walk me through if and how your positions on Stryke and Herbe's relative alignments to Mawile changed during the EOD?


I panicked because as soon as Herbe claimed lovers, the Mawile wagon rapidly disintegrated. It went from the largest wagon with a fair margin to only kyeugh and I. Have a look at this screenshot:

It was very clear to me that Herbe’s reputation was so good that only kyeugh and I still held that Mawile was mafia. I concluded there would be no way to revive the wagon (I didn’t even think of roleclaiming atm, and I don’t think it would’ve been a smart move either), so I panicked and jumped ship to Stryke because I thought he seemed really suspicious at the time, yet I couldn’t confirm anything. I don’t remember why I moved to Odie at one point, but I can look at the thread and try to remember if you want me to.


kokorico said:


> do your result PMs contain the username of the person you (attempted to) target?


Mine do.


Vipera Magnifica said:


> I will answer the question you all want to know first: Yes, I sent in my night action last night. No, I did not heal Eifie, so she could not have died from healer clash. I healed kyeugh, and it's extremely unlikely _both_ of our heals could have been redirected.


imo this pretty much confirms that either a) Stryke is lying (unlikely) or b) there is a mafia strongman (less unlikely)


Mr. Ultracool said:


> But isn't asking the dead about game maters somewhat... forbidden?


Yes, it is. Very forbidden. Unless you’re dead too, that is.


Keldeo said:


> I was hoping to swap with you undetected today. Would you mind doing a quote chain where we continually quote each other's posts and say the body swapping phrase? I know how many times it can bounce back in a day, but the mafia don't, which would maybe obscure who is actually the cop. Unless someone has a smarter idea for how to use this ability.





Keldeo said:


> I guess this isn't actually useful because this still narrows the cop down to two people, assuming rari's telling the truth. :V
> 
> Ideas for how to use this ability + thoughts on Negrek getting the wrong role for Eifie would be appreciated.


I have an idea: we all know that Seshas and qva are town too; what if we do a four-way quote chain?


Keldeo said:


> Also, Eifie showing up with a gun is weird considering that my role had nothing to do with guns. I was thinking maybe someone gave her the gun? I don't think it's a great idea to claim that if that's the case, given we have a redirector running around. The question that idea raises, anyway, is where the first few guns went. Or the mafia could be manipulating the flavor text (possibly also extending to our knowledge of the dead person's flavor?) like Seshas proposed.


What if the _power that would develop_ you mentioned meant that Non-Action Hero became Vigilate Man, and Eifie somehow triggered that power?


Keldeo said:


> if everyone's telling the truth, Eifie had one layer of protection, and if mafia have a way to get around kills I'd expect them to target someone with a claimed useful role, since Eifie hadn't claimed?


Eifie was pretty steadfastly claiming that Ultracool was not mafia. Imo she’s the one who looked more like a cop among us, and to be very frank, I suspected that she was going to be the one who wouldn’t wake up toDay.


----------



## IndigoClaudia

rari_teh said:


>


this is very intense. I can't quite believe people are going to these lengths about it. yeesh.


----------



## IndigoClaudia

lol


----------



## rari_teh

IndigoEmmy said:


> this is very intense. I can't quite believe people are going to these lengths about it. yeesh.


I’m a detective, ma’am. With great power comes great responsability. *puts sunglasses*


----------



## IndigoClaudia

I'm a random girl who plays mafia. With great confusion comes a small chance of winning. *Accidentally drops sunglasses*


----------



## mewtini

rari_teh said:


> It was very clear to me that Herbe’s reputation was so good that only kyeugh and I still held that Mawile was mafia.


haven't finished reading but i don't think this is what happened. it's just that we (at least i) didn't want to risk killing herbe at that point, because the lovers claim itself was probably true, and we fell back on the "safer" wagon


----------



## IndigoClaudia

As previously mentioned. *Mawile* is still the most suspicious person imao


----------



## mewtini

mewtini said:


> haven't finished reading but i don't think this is what happened. it's just that we (at least i) didn't want to risk killing herbe at that point, because the lovers claim itself was probably true, and we fell back on the "safer" wagon


and also this situation was probably really easy for a wolf to take advantage of lmfao. have to read back and properly post after i finish some work, but i think it was keldeo who said a bit ago that the mawile ship is going to have to sink eventually because there's no way for herbe to win at the same time as town - unless his lover role lets him have two wincons, in which case, God Bless. it really hurts me to say this.


----------



## rari_teh

I was reading a thread on MafiaScum that someone (Keldeo?) linked to earlier and I found this:



			
				Battousai said:
			
		

> You shouldn't tell the player that their action was redirected no matter what, though when you give them "Player B is innocent" they can pretty much infer it, when they ask if you made a mistake and tell them no.


Does this mean that, if my actions were redirected, Butterfree would’ve said the name of the player it has been redirected to instead of the name of the player I targeted? Because if so, then I know for sure my flips weren’t redirected.


----------



## rari_teh

rari_teh said:


> I have an idea: we all know that Seshas and qva are town too; what if we do a four-way quote chain?


I’m also singling out this part of my longpost bc it’s too important to risk being buried by the rest of it. Also tagging @Keldeo @Seshas @kyeugh


----------



## Herbe

Keldeo said:


> @Herbe, I'm interested in why you believed at first that rari's result was tampered with n1 and not, like, that they were mafia trying to incriminate you? I can guess, but I don't want to assume when I can hear from you.


that cop claim is way too bold for a mafia member tbh. way too easy to get called out on/disproven, and i figured tamper shenanigans would be rampant here.


mewtini said:


> the mawile ship is going to have to sink eventually because there's no way for herbe to win at the same time as town - unless his lover role lets him have two wincons, in which case, God Bless. it really hurts me to say this.


basically if mawile dies, I don't instadie per se. I instantly lose, yes, but I can still participate in thread. I asked about the specifics of what would happen if mawile died, and (I'm being 100% honest here) butterfree told me that I'd still be in the game. I just really, really don't want that [him dying] to happen. No specifics beyond that, so if there are shenanigans there, we'll just have to wait and see.


----------



## mewtini

Herbe said:


> I instantly lose, yes


damn. but you can't win through town?


----------



## Mr. Ultracool

rari_teh said:


> I’m also singling out this part of my longpost bc it’s too important to risk being buried by the rest of it. Also tagging @Keldeo @Seshas @kyeugh


But shouldn't we include some people we suspect of being Maf if we're going to use this as a poor man's cop?


----------



## rari_teh

Herbe said:


> that cop claim is way too bold for a mafia member tbh. way too easy to get called out on/disproven, and i figured tamper shenanigans would be rampant here.
> 
> basically if mawile dies, I don't instadie per se. I instantly lose, yes, but I can still participate in thread. I asked about the specifics of what would happen if mawile died, and (I'm being 100% honest here) butterfree told me that I'd still be in the game. I just really, really don't want that [him dying] to happen. No specifics beyond that, so if there are shenanigans there, we'll just have to wait and see.


Funny because earlier toDay you said this:


Herbe said:


> y'all really gonna kill me out here. Okay


Almost like if you were backtracking now that Mawile being lynched is a real possibility and if he dies and you don’t it’s going to be mad suspicious


----------



## Herbe

mewtini said:


> damn. but you can't win through town?


As of the information I have right now, I'm lead to believe that I can't. My whole job is to keep mawile alive. However, there's the chance that things might change once mawile dies (which.... i have to assume is happening today.) Worst case, I become a benign third party, best case I get assimilated into the town.

Re: rari, it was kinda last resort trying to keep him alive. I was grasping at every straw I could because i didn't want to lose.


----------



## mewtini

rari_teh said:


> Almost like if you were backtracking now that Mawile being lynched is a real possibility and if he dies and you don’t it’s going to be mad suspicious


i dont think this is warranted lol
herbe not dying doesn't mitigate the fact that his winning condition is with mawile. not the worst backtrack ever


----------



## rari_teh

mewtini said:


> i just caught up and: what ... the hell
> 
> _Thoughts™:_ coming soon to a forum near you


You still writin’ those? I’m achin’ to read ’em :)


----------



## mewtini

rari_teh said:


> You still writin’ those? I’m achin’ to read ’em :)


yeah! but probably not for another hourish (well, i always say that and then i get impatient). trying to finish a Problem Set beforehand


----------



## Mawile

rari_teh said:


> View attachment 423


At least I'm not the only one with a spreadsheet for this game.


----------



## Mr. Ultracool

Mawile said:


> At least I'm not the only one with a spreadsheet for this game.


But what would a Maf need a Spreadsheet for? In my opinion, that makes M&F more suspicious than you, especially since the Copclaim didn't solely cast suspicion on you, Mawile. 
*
Lynching M&F*


----------



## mewtini

Mr. Ultracool said:


> But what would a Maf need a Spreadsheet for? In my opinion, that makes M&F more suspicious than you, especially since the Copclaim didn't solely cast suspicion on you, Mawile.


idrk why a spreadsheet makes mawile that much less suspicious. i don't think mafiachat is all-knowing


----------



## IndigoClaudia

do i need a spreadsheet?


----------



## Mawile

Spreadsheets make sense to my brain. It's hard to take notes on a 25 person mafia game without one, and I don't know how you guys manage to keep notes without them :(


----------



## IndigoClaudia

Simple: *I don't take notes. It's all in my head.*


----------



## Mawile

IndigoEmmy said:


> Simple: *I don't take notes. It's all in my head.*


Sounds rough tbh.


----------



## mewtini

Mawile said:


> Spreadsheets make sense to my brain. It's hard to take notes on a 25 person mafia game without one, and I don't know how you guys manage to keep notes without them :(


i have a really janky running text file hahahahaha


----------



## IndigoClaudia

it is. It's the roughest.


----------



## mewtini

mewtini said:


> i have a really janky running text file hahahahaha


... that i haven't updated since midway through d2. eep.


----------



## IndigoClaudia

oh no. What does it say about me?


----------



## kyeugh

is everyone actually taking notes

@rari_teh i don’t see why a four person quote chain is necessary. it seems to me like keldeo’s ideas sufficed and would be less of a pain to extract information from


----------



## Stryke

Mawile said:


> Spreadsheets make sense to my brain. It's hard to take notes on a 25 person mafia game without one, and I don't know how you guys manage to keep notes without them :(


I don't take notes, not even in my head. I simply just relearn every bit of information within this thread every time I reopen it


----------



## kyeugh

literally same. what do people even write that isn’t just copypasted from the thread
in which case just. reread it tbh


----------



## kyeugh

narrator voice: she has not reread once


----------



## Zori

I'm here maybe


----------



## IndigoClaudia

Seshas said:


> I'm here maybe


im not maybe. bye peeps.


----------



## Ottercopter

Herbe said:


> As of the information I have right now, I'm lead to believe that I can't. My whole job is to keep mawile alive. However, there's the chance that things might change once mawile dies (which.... i have to assume is happening today.) Worst case, I become a benign third party, best case I get assimilated into the town.
> 
> Re: rari, it was kinda last resort trying to keep him alive. I was grasping at every straw I could because i didn't want to lose.


Ayyyy benign third party party.

(I've been keeping up with the thread, but I've got a lot going on tonight, so you probably won't see much of me 'til tomorrow!) F's for Eifie
*Mawile.*


----------



## mewtini

ok i'm actually about to catch up now. at long last. stay tuned friends


----------



## mewtini

i'm reading through EoD with maf!mawile in mind - this is gonna be stream-of-consciousness/me just dredging up quotes, so excuse some maybe irrelevant things



Mawile said:


> I'll also pile on the *Odie_Pie* wagon for now because I would rather not die.





mewtini said:


> maybe i'm too trusting. motion detector doesn't sound like a made-up roleclaim
> *stryke*
> 
> (4) Stryke: Herbe, IndigoEmmy, M&F, mewtini
> (2) Mawile: Eifie, rari_teh
> (1) Panini: Mist
> (1) Mist1422: Panini
> (1) serimachi: kokorico
> (2) odie_pie: kyeugh, kokorico


these are two adjacent posts - i don't think mawile voting odie was as weird as we made it out to be (i placed my vote as mawile placed his, so at the time he voted, he actually was making the stryke/odie wagons even)



Panini said:


> I'm mulling it [sitting on Mist vote] over.
> I find the pile on a little unnerving too


a little unsure of how i feel about panini/her voting behavior still but maybe it means nothing?



mewtini said:


> i really really don't think an odie vote signifies alignment, and i dont think the pile-on matters. even if voting odie _shouldn't_ feel like a vote to abstain, it invariably does when odie hasn't shown up and none of us have talked to them


repeating this because i think there was some vote-digging going on earlier
but i haven't gotten to anything from toDay yet


----------



## Keldeo

rari_teh said:


> What if the _power that would develop_ you mentioned meant that Non-Action Hero became Vigilate Man, and Eifie somehow triggered that power?


Huh, was changing tropes a thing in the previous game? From the way it was worded, it seems like whatever it was was part of my power trope so I don't think it would actually change my power or character trope.


----------



## mewtini

EoD, cont.


Mawile said:


> [things that don't really matter here]
> I don't really know, my notes on [Stryke] aren't super long. My death is coming up soon, so I don't really have a lot of time to go and research again.


this final sentence read weirdly to me as it was happening so i'm bringing it back up (i also replied and was like "if one person switches wagons, you're safe bro") but also possibly pure stress response ig

that being said lol


kokorico said:


> on Mawile vs. Stryke: actually tbh I found Mawile's defencepost earlier reasonably convincing. It was more "meh. yes, I have an excuse for being inactive, but I don't blame you for finding me scummy." than actually trying to make retorts against accusations - kinda would expect mafia!Mawile to be more vociferous.


this was a #goodchicken take from koko just before madness ensued. i also agreed with it, but for what it's worth, mawile did end up coming back with what could be said to be a vociferous reply:


Mawile said:


> I WILL MOTION DETECT ANYONE TOMORROW NIGHT AND SOMEONE CAN DIRECTLY FACT CHECK ME


so take that as y'all will



Herbe said:


> Quite strongly. Please move :( Maybe its just because mawile read me correctly but yeah. I don't want to mislynch a town inforole


i'm not totally sure why herbe waited until kind-of last minute to reveal tbh? since lover isn't a power role. but other than that i think his behavior is consistent enough with his claims even if i think it's now canon that they're town/scum, etcetera


----------



## mewtini

the way that herbe phrased things ("got his alignment") is also a pretty good/speedy/nebulous way to make it seem like they're both town to protect mawile tbh


Herbe said:


> Yes, he's town, I got his role alignment and he told me his role


also, in re: mawile's one quote about (against?) herbe;


Mawile said:


> Herbe gives me mild weirdness (not necessarily suspicion). It's just kind of a bit weird to me that he focused so hard on giving an opinion about mewtini with quoted posts to give exact evidence and hasn't even really mentioned much about other people? It could just be an oversight on his end, but I still find it odd.


 if herbe's wincon works symmetrically - that is, mawile also instantly loses if herbe dies - the quote/throwing doubt on herbe doesn't really make sense. i think i posted earlier saying i was fine with this, since maybe mawile was trying to allow himself a window to later capitalize or something and lynch herbe for a mafia victory or something

BUT if they both lose immediately, then i don't get this anymore



Spoiler: more EoD quotes






kyeugh said:


> i mean no tbh
> also why should we... out cop for this
> mawile/herbe lovers desu!?!?!?!?





Keldeo said:


> I don't really understand the 0 to 60 urgency there :<





mewtini said:


> i feel really bad about mawile's 0 to 100





kyeugh said:


> ?? why did mawile not say anything about this





Keldeo said:


> imo the loverizing doesn't mean Mawile is 100% clear, since it was an effect of Herbe's role, but I don't want to kill Herbe too. And I think knowing that explains some of Mawile's shifts this EOD that I thought were strange


----------



## mewtini

i got up through when keldeo made his series of recap posts (around 3176) and will maybe shut up for now depending on if i find anything i want to dig up after that

rari/mf stuff
another thing to note is that between the rari/mf tangle, i'm more inclined to believe that rari is a sane cop and that mf is either a) insane or b) lying, and is actually a wolf



rari_teh said:


> I am a Private Detective and my power is Stalking Mission. Which means, I’m a regular alignment cop. No quirks that I know of.


the flavors of those tropes are much less inane cop than mf's
(tbh wild thought, with the below quote in mind: mf would have the easiest time faking a tropified role considering her encyclopedic knowledge of tropes)


Seshas said:


> I feel like M&F would be thorough with their role claim regardless of alignment
> since they're so thorough with everything else





Seshas said:


> If Stryke was redirected N2, then rari is less likely to have been





mewtini said:


> another few comments: seshas mentioning a thorough MF claim makes sense when paranoid (all-red) cop is the easiest of the cop types to fake, and it could have happened in order to discredit rari? idk - it also seems massively unlikely ~in my heart~ that there are two cops that are both insane/impaired in some way and i have more long-game desire to trust rari than MF but. obviously something is getting manipulated in the current tangle of things


other stuff


Stryke said:


> Goddammit i was THIS close to being helpful


this sounds kinda sincere to me tbh even though kyeugh's sort-of-not-really shade (about claiming to heal people who didn't die, etc, etc) made me legit go hmmm for a second since the nanobots role was public knowledge/possibly up for grabs as a claim. but no one's counterclaimed yet and the only person who wouldn't have been around enough to counter would be flora, i think, so i'm cool w stryke for now



serimachi said:


> Aww, shoot. Now I feel bad that I ever mentioned suspecting Eifie.  It sounds like she was an important role, too, and not an alien or something like I suspected.
> 
> Out of general curiosity, and something I've been wondering, is it allowed for more than one person to have the same role?


in case anyone wants to take a break from actually useful and ongoing discussion. anyone think this sounds lurky lol



M&F said:


> I have information that all cops are useless! but that's in real life, not in the game-


shesright.bmp



Herbe said:


> i think it would be the first person in the night action lineup? and wouldn't doc go near the end, cause if someone gets attacked, doc heals them afterward. meanwhile motion detector would set up/get stuck first. (also to y'all hypothesizing that he tried to murder me N1: he would still have gotten stuck before stryke came to heal)


probably just useful to put here in case it comes back up
also i was the one who initially guessed that mawile attacked herbe n1 but it's because i forgot how mafia kills work. lmfao. (and we don't think any kills so far have been due to any non-mafia entity, given the consistency of flavor; yum)

so then we think mawile must have a non-kill night action


----------



## mewtini

last post sorry. just finished everything.



Spoiler: current tierlist, sort of ordered



*trying her best*
mewtini :C

*mech-clear town (well, my interpretation of Clear)*
indigoemmy
seshas
rari
VM
stryke
MF (doublelisted below)
ultracool
negrek

*probably town, because i Believe™*
kyeugh
ottercopter
herbe (with an obvious caveat ...)
kokorico
keldeo

*idrk, nonnegative feelings*
mist

*inactive*
flora
redneckphoenix
serimachi

*hrm*
panini
MF
mawile





Vipera Magnifica said:


> That also raises the question why anyone would redirect Stryke unless they were mafia... and if the mafia was going to redirect Stryke's action, why not seize the opportunity to kill me? They'd have to know I'm the only one I couldn't heal. So why Eifie? I'd like to hear people's thoughts on this (Also I'm a little hurt there's a role called Vigilante Man and it's not me. I'm changing my trope name to Vigorous Medic if there are no objections.)


vigorous medic made me lol. anyway yeah VM's post here also presents some reasons i think i'm on board with stryke; as i said before, i also think that if there is a redirector out there who made an action last night, they would have gone for stryke since he was the easiest to find/most recent power role claimant. that would assume that the redirector was red though (and kyeugh has said that the alignment is unknown?)



Keldeo said:


> So Negrek should have gotten that Eifie was Non-Action Guy at the time of her death.


hm



mewtini said:


> this situation [herbe/mawile claiming lovers] was probably really easy for a wolf to take advantage of lmfao. have to read back and properly post after i finish some work, but i think it was keldeo who said a bit ago that the mawile ship is going to have to sink eventually because there's no way for herbe to win at the same time as town - _unless his lover role lets him have two wincons, in which case, God Bless._


italics is no longer true as confirmed by herbe after i made that post


----------



## kyeugh

i don't really know what to think of herbe but the impression i'm getting while reading your posts is that you're really straining yourself to keep him in your town bucket at the expense of considering the situation as it is.  i find it kind of odd that you're placing him so high above panini tbh.  can you explain why you're still town reading him?

also, when do you guys think i should call out the redirector?


----------



## mewtini

kyeugh said:


> the impression i'm getting while reading your posts is that you're really straining yourself to keep him in your town bucket at the expense of considering the situation as it is. i find it kind of odd that you're placing him so high above panini tbh. can you explain why you're still town reading him?


yeah! basically i think he's town/i strongly townread him before The Revelation (for reasons i'd already mentioned back then - investigative spirit/gradually growing into himself and posting more aggressively, beginning to tunnel, etc) i acknowledge i've been a bit muddy about my Actual Thoughts lately because i've felt like i've been a bit behind on everything. but no, my herbe townread isn't at the expense of the #situation; i'm in support of a mawile lynch over an MF one still, i mostly have been emphatic because rari posited that they were a scum/scum pair which i think is inconsistent

a better question is "does it matter" and i think the answer to that is no. 
so, to be clear: if EoD were now, i would place a mawile vote.

in re: panini, this maybe sounds fake but i initially didn't have an "idrk/nonnegative" tier and i threw it down last minute as i was getting ready to hit post. i meant to put panini there, not in the lowest tier, i just didn't feel like quintuple (or w/e) posting to fix the error. i have no strong opinions on panini either way haha


----------



## mewtini

mewtini said:


> beginning to tunnel


this was bad phrasing but this was referring to him independently asking for opinions about/from people, posting about serimachi, etc. even if that all did happen at an unfortunate juncture post-boq


----------



## mewtini

sorry i keep thinking of ways to better elaborate

the "town"read on herbe is now more representative of "i believe him" than of him actually being town. i just am pretty onboard with him now being 3p, is a better way of explaining it lol, so i guess functionally it is closer to how keldeo listed him - where mawile is in the lowest tier of trust and herbe is there by association. i was just trying to keep the town/scum pairing clear


----------



## rari_teh

I made an ordered tierlist since it’s been a while I last posted one.



Spoiler: Tierlist



*It’s a-me*
rari_teh

*Autoclear*
Seshas
IndigoEmmy
Vipera Magnifica
Mr. Ultracool

*♪ town.mid ♫*
mewtini
kyeugh
kokorico
Keldeo

*Townlean*
Negrek
Stryke

*Townlean is too strong of a word*
serimachi
Ottercopter

*Let Them Vibe™*
Panini
Mist1422

*suspicious.jpg*
M&F
Herbe

*FBI OPEN UP*
Mawile
[/hide]

*Who?!*
RedneckPhoenix
Flora


----------



## rari_teh

*it’s been a while *since* I last posted one >:c



kyeugh said:


> also, when do you guys think i should call out the redirector?


now tbh


----------



## Negrek

More later, but:



kyeugh said:


> also, when do you guys think i should call out the redirector?


I would say only if/when you think it would actually make a difference? I feel like either an MF lynch or Mawile lynch is very likely to happen today... is there any way the report of a redirector would change that? I feel like for all the contradictions around Mawile's claim, at least, to be resolved, there would need to have been multiple redirects at work.

Also, maybe something to keep in mind: Town wins when _all mafia killing roles_ are eliminated. Not all mafia. All mafia killing roles. So if we truly believe that Mawile doesn't have a killing role, we may not technically have to lynch him to win. I don't know that I'd trust Mawile enough to say that that means we actually shouldn't lynch him, and even if he can't kill anyone now there's nothing to say to me that he isn't a goon who will end up inheriting a kill power if we off the godfather, but the wincon might be something to keep in mind for the future if we're faced with a really hard choice.


----------



## Negrek

Ah, yes, and wrt Eifie's trope in light of the bodyswapping that's been going on, I don't like it, obvs, but I'm going to need to sit down and review the claimed chain of trope swaps before I have a good idea of what might actually have happened. If it's not something like Keldeo's role trope turning into another based on when a certain condition is met, my first thought was some player with the ability to "give out" the vigilante power; I played in at least one game where one player could give out guns/bulletproof vests, with guns being one-shot nightkills and bulletrpoofs being one-shot night protection, so possibly that could be going on here. Would that change a person's role trope? Ehhh, dunno.


----------



## Stryke

rari_teh said:


> *it’s been a while *since* I last posted one >:c
> 
> 
> now tbh


Who is this "since" scumbag and why has he earned your suspicion


----------



## Mawile

Negrek said:


> even if he can't kill anyone now there's nothing to say to me that he isn't a goon who will end up inheriting a kill power if we off the godfather


For what it's worth, my role PM specifically notes that I can't inherit the mafia head's killing ability, so do what you want with that knowledge.


----------



## Keldeo

Negrek, this is possibly a weird question but flavor-wise, how do you get the dead people's information? I'm not asking for a trope claim - just is it like an investigation you do, or something you hear, or do you just get the info? The fact that we don't know exactly how mafia are pulling strings still kinda bugs me, and if your role might be subject to that, it could explain the discrepancy here.



Negrek said:


> Ah, yes, and wrt Eifie's trope in light of the bodyswapping that's been going on, I don't like it, obvs, but I'm going to need to sit down and review the claimed chain of trope swaps before I have a good idea of what might actually have happened. If it's not something like Keldeo's role trope turning into another based on when a certain condition is met, my first thought was some player with the ability to "give out" the vigilante power; I played in at least one game where one player could give out guns/bulletproof vests, with guns being one-shot nightkills and bulletrpoofs being one-shot night protection, so possibly that could be going on here. Would that change a person's role trope? Ehhh, dunno.


Originally: Ultracool was Body Snatcher, Eif was [OG Eif role], I was Non-Action Guy
D1: Ultracool's bodyswap post —> Ultracool becomes [OG Eif role] (so she knew he was town), Eif becomes Body Snatcher, I was Non-Action Guy
D2: Eifie's bodyswap post —> Ultracool is [OG Eif role], Eif becomes Non-Action Guy, I become Body Snatcher

I assume Ultracool would've mentioned if Eif's original role was Vigilante Man, so I was thinking it couldn't be that you read the person's original trope or something.

Also, I'm currently guaranteed town if you believe Ultracool, since I haven't triggered a swap yet.


----------



## Mawile

Keldeo said:


> The fact that we don't know exactly how mafia are pulling strings still kinda bugs me, and if your role might be subject to that, it could explain the discrepancy here.


If more than one of the tropes we got is wrong because of this I'm gonna scream irl because that means my spreadsheet is wrong

Also I think Ultracool mentioned that he got Mysterious Informant from Eifie.


----------



## Negrek

Keldeo said:


> Negrek, this is possibly a weird question but flavor-wise, how do you get the dead people's information? I'm not asking for a trope claim - just is it like an investigation you do, or something you hear, or do you just get the info? The fact that we don't know exactly how mafia are pulling strings still kinda bugs me, and if your role might be subject to that, it could explain the discrepancy here.


I have "meta knowledge," so the answer just comes to me. In practice what happens is that after a player dies, Dragonfree PMs me their name and role. I assume there's no way to tamper with at least the lynch results, because they come immediately after the lynch happens, so there wouldn't be any time for someone else to get a night action in there to mess with things. Unless the mafia can do something during the day.

Somewhat related, but I'm curious why @Seshas interpreted "mafia pulling strings behind the scenes" to mean that the mafia were altering daytext somehow. Is there more to it than "pulling strings behind the scenes?" The first thing I think of on hearing that, personally, is that there might be some kind of puppetmaster power on the mafia side, whatever that might mean...


----------



## mewtini

Mawile said:


> For what it's worth, my role PM specifically notes that I can't inherit the mafia head's killing ability, so do what you want with that knowledge.


uh


----------



## Mawile

mewtini said:


> uh


Yes?


----------



## Herbe

so who's gonna hit this with me once mawile gets lynched
(and for what it's worth, although I refuse to actively vote for my lose condition, I'll go ahead and *unvote* to clear the path)


----------



## mewtini

oh my god lmao


----------



## Mr. Ultracool

Yeah, Eifies original role was Mysterious Imformant, but the Info was the existence of a Deadly Doctor who was, apparently, killed N0 :/

Also, I think I'll switch back to 

*Mawile*


----------



## Panini

I'm just gonna do a read up before I go to bed so I'm not totally behind and come back tomorrow for coherent thoughts

I get the impression today is kind of a Mechanics Tangle (tm) anyway so


----------



## Butterfree

Spoiler: Full vote history



*Mist1422* votes *Mawile* (#2933)
*Herbe* votes *M&F* (#2935)
*rari_teh* votes *Mawile* (#2936)
*kyeugh* votes *Mawile* (#2939)
*Seshas* votes *M&F* (#3094)
*IndigoEmmy* votes *Mawile* (#3196)
*Mr. Ultracool* votes *Mawile* (#3198)
*Vipera Magnifica* votes *Mawile* (#3212)
*IndigoEmmy* votes *Mawile* (#3225)
*IndigoEmmy* votes *Mawile* (#3247)
*Mr. Ultracool* votes *M&F* (#3260)
*Ottercopter* votes *Mawile* (#3276)
*Herbe* unvotes (#3299)
*Mr. Ultracool* votes *Mawile* (#3301)





Spoiler: Active votes



*IndigoEmmy* votes *Mawile* (#3247)
*Mist1422* votes *Mawile* (#2933)
*Mr. Ultracool* votes *Mawile* (#3301)
*Ottercopter* votes *Mawile* (#3276)
*Seshas* votes *M&F* (#3094)
*Vipera Magnifica* votes *Mawile* (#3212)
*kyeugh* votes *Mawile* (#2939)
*rari_teh* votes *Mawile* (#2936)



Vote counts:
*Mawile* (7) (IndigoEmmy, Mist1422, Mr. Ultracool, Ottercopter, Vipera Magnifica, kyeugh, rari_teh)
*M&F* (1) (Seshas)
No vote (17) (Mawile, Herbe, Flora, M&F, JackPK, Panini, I liek Squirtles, Stryke, serimachi, Negrek, RedneckPhoenix, Odie_Pie, Eifie, kokorico, Keldeo, mewtini, Boquise)


----------



## qenya

eh fuck it. I know I said I was going to keep quiet about what happened last night, at least for now, but y'all are jumping to massively incorrect conclusions and there's no way this ends well. I hope I don't regret revealing this later.

*Eifie's trope did actually spontaneously change* at the start of N2 from Non Action Guy to Vigilante Man - there was no messing with the flavour text or with Negrek's power. I know this because the same thing happened to me! At the start of N2, Butterfree told me (previously a Non Action Guy too) that I had acquired the desire to help the town find the path of justice and righteousness, with a snarky note about how the misguided among us have been starting lynch mobs against doctors and the catatonic. I became another White Mage - presumably she rolled on a list of roles for each Non Action Guy.

You can probably see where this is going. I knew both claimed doctors had already pledged to maybe heal each other, so the mafia probably wouldn't go after them. I thought it would be sensible to pick a different, experienced player high up on my probably-town list. So I healed Eifie.

I'm so sorry.

Upshots, if we can see any sort of silver lining here:

I'm not just "a tad less" suspicious about Stryke - he absolutely has to be town. In order to be mafia, Stryke would have to have killed Eifie and roleblocked me, somehow knowing in advance that I would target her, and he would have to have known before EOD2 that he needed to claim as doctor in order to pull it off. All of that seems _implausible_, to say the least.
The redirector/busdriver that kyeugh thinks exists didn't target Stryke, Eifie or Negrek, so its effect could have been used somewhere else. My bet is that it messed with the cops - I'm in agreement with mewtini that neither rari_teh nor M&F has been coming off as scummy.
The mafia nightkill didn't go through at all. Maybe they tried to off kyeugh (who VM says he protected N2)? Either that or they actually did target Eifie but she _also _died due to healer clash.
Again, I'm really sorry about how this ended up and I acknowledge that I'm way out of my league at this point. Assuming I survive next night, I promise to kill whoever y'all tell me to and not try to be clever about it.


----------



## qenya

kokorico said:


> I promise to kill whoever y'all tell me to


******HEAL NOT KILL


----------



## qenya

Butterfree said:


> Vote counts:
> *Mawile* (7) (IndigoEmmy, Mist1422, Mr. Ultracool, Ottercopter, Vipera Magnifica, kyeugh, rari_teh)
> *M&F* (1) (Seshas)
> No vote (17) (Mawile, Herbe, Flora, M&F, JackPK, Panini, I liek Squirtles, Stryke, serimachi, Negrek, RedneckPhoenix, Odie_Pie, Eifie, kokorico, Keldeo, mewtini, Boquise)


Oh right, I never actually voted. Still 36 hours to go but eh, this is the most obvious of obvious lynches.

*Mawile.*


----------



## Panini

Okay I got to the end but like jesus. Off the hip I think I don’t have that much to say that hasn’t already been said, my impression is that rari’s claim is to be believed at face value which means that the evidence stacking on *Mawile* (and kind of like, the handling by Herbe and Mawile today) is too much to bare without resolving at this point.

Re: M&F situation I think full red-check only cop sounds possible but not very practical and I’d be surprised to see it in setup? So proceeding with the idea that either M&F is lying or redirects are involved I second the idea to have the redirector claim if they feel like they have any information on those checks or the kills. 

Honestly I’m not sure if koko’s claim is super necessary but it makes so much sense as to the missing pieces of the puzzle that I'm obviously taking it at face value too. I think if we do have it cleared up that Eifie probably died due to healer clash then I think that equals town points for kyeugh/whoever else it turns out might have been healed since the shot had to go somewhere (barring of course as you say, mafia also stacking on eifie) Another possibility is someone having a straight roleblock and happening to pick the mafia that was carrying the kill (if individuals carrying the factional kill is a thing here, if it’s just one amorphous team that submits the kill I guess that’s not applicable).

I'll be back in the morning to sort other reads out.


----------



## Vipera Magnifica

@kokorico well that's a spicy little bombshell you just dropped on all of us. Care to prove it?

If kokorico is telling the truth (which, I am inclined to believe, since if it was a mafia fakeclaim it was entirely unwarranted) then we may need to take measures to avoid healer clash. Stryke should probably choose two potential healing targets (the two other healers please?) then flip a coin tonight to determine who to heal. kokorico and I can avoid those two and each heal someone else.


----------



## Stryke

kokorico said:


> ******HEAL NOT KILL


----------



## Stryke

So... I guess that makes FIVE healing roles in this game. I know not all of them were active at the same time, but that's crazy. I checked back at Eifies death post, and it's kind of odd that it doesn't seem to indicate anything about healer clash, which is also strange, but that's honestly less shade at kokorico and more shade at the notion of healer clash itself; if healer clash really does kill the target, then where did the mafia kill go? I think it seems reasonable to consider that healer clash just results in the two healings cancelling out each other, and Eifie happened to get offed by the mafia coincidentally, maybe as a third possiblity in addition to the ones kokorico mentioned about mafia targeting kyeugh or mafia targeting an already dead from healer clash eif. As for who I'm healing, coinflip between two healers sounds good to me


----------



## Zori

W!Mawile would be more likely to fake results if mafia had some sort of redirector role that could mess things up
If the redirector is wolf, it's likely they were using it to attempt to mess up investigatives N1, which would explain the Bosquie kill


----------



## Zori

If that is the case, then VM seems the most likely redirector target on N2


----------



## Zori

FoS'ing Panini here for wagon bouncing


----------



## IndigoClaudia

Stryke said:


> I guess that makes FIVE healing roles in this game.


yeesh lots of killing roles.
******HEAL NOT KILL

so if there are that many healing roles how many killing roles? Clearly only one or two because only one person dies a night, and to my knowledge seperate mafia would kill separate people? or does the big bad mafia boss who makes all the rules decide who gets killed.


----------



## IndigoClaudia

IndigoEmmy said:


> the big bad mafia boss who makes all the rules


The image was too big click here


----------



## IndigoClaudia

...this is what it is if you don't wanna click on a random link


----------



## Keldeo

Okay awesome, that kokorico claim clears up a good amount if e’s telling the truth, and it seems simpler if e is / I don’t entirely see why e’d lie. @kokorico were you What Kind Of Lame Power Is Heart and ~destined for greatness~ too? Haha.

One question it does raise is that Eifie should have been able to use her Vigilante Man powers so where did her kill go? She wouldn’t have killed kyeugh, she trusted her.


@ people who are positing that MF is not lying, what exactly are you thinking happened? I see the possibility but I think MF should not be trusted solely because she claimed whereas Mawile started openwolfing.

Evidently Mawile should have inspected red and I should have inspected green, so if MF’s telling the truth, either she gets all red or gets randomized results. Then to explain Rari’s result, either MF is also a miller, or rari got redirected or deflected last night (or Rari’s result was otherwise tampered with). The redirector should be able to confirm an alternate red result in the latter case. The former just seems kind of mean, but I guess is not out of the realm of possibility.


I wanted to explore the possibility of Herbe/Mawile being w/w and just hatching this weird lovers claim to save Mawile, because Herbe’s backtrack about possibly remaining in the game even if Mawile died was a little strange to me. I agree that Herbe’s posting seemed fine before, I do not think that Mawile dying and Herbe remaining alive should clear Herbe unless he explains why he didn’t want Mawile to die.


----------



## Mawile

Keldeo said:


> unless he explains why he didn’t want Mawile to die


I mean, he can't win unless I'm alive at the end of the game, so me getting lynched is a guaranteed loss for him. It's in his best interest for me to not be lynched, but we've both accepted that there's pretty much no hope of me surviving today's lynch.


----------



## IndigoClaudia

Sorry bucko.


----------



## Mawile

Also, I have to wonder if our two White Mages can healer clash. Based on the MI info, only the White Mage and Nanotech doctors hate each other and (apparently) clash to kill the target, but I wonder what happens if two White Mages hit the same person. Not saying that you should try it, but I'm just curious.


----------



## Vipera Magnifica

Mawile said:


> I mean, he can't win unless I'm alive at the end of the game, so me getting lynched is a guaranteed loss for him. It's in his best interest for me to not be lynched, but we've both accepted that there's pretty much no hope of me surviving today's lynch.


So I take it he's some kind of Guardian Angel type role?



Vipera Magnifica said:


> If kokorico is telling the truth (which, I am inclined to believe, since if it was a mafia fakeclaim it was entirely unwarranted) then we may need to take measures to avoid healer clash. Stryke should probably choose two potential healing targets (the two other healers please?) then flip a coin tonight to determine who to heal. kokorico and I can avoid those two and each heal someone else.


I confirmed with Butterfree that white magic clashing with nanotechnology will cause the target to die, but if two doctors use magic on the same target they will not die and the target will be protected. So yeah, only Stryke should state his potential targets and then kokorico and I can choose targets without fear of healer clash.


----------



## IndigoClaudia

Mawile said:


> Not saying that you should try it,


We should definitely try it. Experimentation is the only way to find out.


----------



## Vipera Magnifica

@Mawile you ninja'd me but I answered your question already


----------



## IndigoClaudia

Vipera Magnifica said:


> @Mawile you ninja'd me but I answered your question already


this is so sad guys can we get 50 likes.


----------



## mewtini

man. the koko roleclaim explains ... a fair amount



Seshas said:


> W!Mawile would be more likely to fake results if mafia had some sort of redirector role that could mess things up
> If the redirector is wolf, it's likely they were using it to attempt to mess up investigatives N1


this was my precisely my thought when i was "hmmmm" about mawile being motion detector (i know keldeo believes the claim, though, so i'm not super certain on my thoughts there).


Seshas said:


> FoS'ing Panini here for wagon bouncing


kind of confused, i didn't read back through panini's history but - by the voting history - she hadn't voted for anyone yet, right?


Panini said:


> Re: M&F situation I think full red-check only cop sounds possible but not very practical and I’d be surprised to see it in setup? So proceeding with the idea that either M&F is lying or redirects are involved I second the idea to have the redirector claim if they feel like they have any information on those checks or the kills.





Keldeo said:


> @ people who are positing that MF is not lying, what exactly are you thinking happened? I see the possibility but I think MF should not be trusted solely because she claimed whereas Mawile started openwolfing.


+1


Keldeo said:


> I agree that Herbe’s posting seemed fine before, I do not think that Mawile dying and Herbe remaining alive should clear Herbe unless he explains why he didn’t want Mawile to die.


tbh i still think the simplest explanation is that herbe was [feebly] trying to grasp at straws to keep his 3p win a possibility, and then just gave up. i don't think it clears him but it didn't really put much suspicion on him for me

also i'mma just *mawile*


----------



## Mawile

mewtini said:


> "hmmmm" about mawile being motion detector


For what it's worth, I'm definitely not a motion detector and my actual roleclaim would have outed me very quickly as not town.


----------



## mewtini

kyeugh said:


> i feel so vindicated. wahoo!


----------



## Mawile

I was either gonna claim motion detector or tracker, and I thought motion detector would be a bit easier to try and lie about, lol


----------



## Herbe

Keldeo said:


> I wanted to explore the possibility of Herbe/Mawile being w/w and just hatching this weird lovers claim to save Mawile, because Herbe’s backtrack about possibly remaining in the game even if Mawile died was a little strange to me. I agree that Herbe’s posting seemed fine before, I do not think that Mawile dying and Herbe remaining alive should clear Herbe unless he explains why he didn’t want Mawile to die.


yeah i was panicking cause my lose condition was Coming Right Up
i understand that I'm not cleared/gonna be cleared, i admit i've done a lot of things in the name of covering my ass but mawile dying removes my cover my ass incentive so i'll go back to normal friend herbe after toDay


----------



## mewtini

last comment for now i think - i know flavorreading is a bit tenuous but it's like, vaguely stressing me out that the flavor for eifie's kill sounded like a mafia hit even though it's (pretty much?) confirmed it was a healer clash :x


----------



## mewtini

mewtini said:


> last comment for now i think - i know flavorreading is a bit tenuous but it's like, vaguely stressing me out that the flavor for eifie's kill sounded like a mafia hit even though it's (pretty much?) confirmed it was a healer clash :x


er just to clarify i'm on-board with the clash hypothesis. mostly i said this to a) continue my trend of just posting whatever the hell comes to mind and b) just as a note going forward since i don't think i'm the only one who's factored in death flavors


----------



## RedneckPhoenix

so. we think it was a healer clash?


how interesting.


----------



## IndigoClaudia

Mawile said:


> For what it's worth, I'm definitely not a motion detector and my actual roleclaim would have outed me very quickly as not town.


SUSPICIOUS MUCH?


----------



## mewtini

IndigoEmmy said:


> SUSPICIOUS MUCH?


hahahaha


RedneckPhoenix said:


> so. we think it was a healer clash?
> 
> how interesting.


based off of what we know yeah. thoughts?


----------



## mewtini

well. "know"


----------



## Mawile

IndigoEmmy said:


> SUSPICIOUS MUCH?


:)


----------



## Stryke

Vipera Magnifica said:


> I confirmed with Butterfree that white magic clashing with nanotechnology will cause the target to die, but if two doctors use magic on the same target they will not die and the target will be protected.


So much for my theory then haha.


----------



## RedneckPhoenix

ahem.


Stryke performed no actions last night. 


I should know. I roleblocked him.


----------



## mewtini




----------



## Stryke

Also since healer clash=confirmed death now, let me just say sorry for partially accidentally killing you Eifie; it came from a place of love, honest!


----------



## Herbe

daaaaaaAAAAYYYYY THREE EVERYBODY


----------



## Stryke

RedneckPhoenix said:


> ahem.
> 
> 
> Stryke performed no actions last night.
> 
> 
> I should know. I roleblocked him.


Aw what I just frickin apologized


----------



## mewtini

idk if this is The Move but rnp who have you roleblocked in the past?


----------



## Stryke

Wait then if my heal didnt go through, then why did Eifie die? kokorico shouldve healed her??


----------



## Mawile

Herbe said:


> daaaaaaAAAAYYYYY THREE EVERYBODY


DAY THREE DAY THREE DAY THREE


----------



## mewtini

Stryke said:


> Wait then if my heal didnt go through, then why did Eifie die? kokorico shouldve healed her??


strong (doctor-bypassing) mafia hit, maybe? idk man.... idk anything anymore


----------



## RedneckPhoenix

Why should we think that there are so many as 5 healers in this game when it seems more likely that at least one is lying? Stryke paints a picture of a bumbling fool, but much like myself, he isn't /actually/ one. 

I can also be quite sure that ILS did not perform any actions Night Zero and that Kyeugh did not do anything Night One. 

Seriously, guys. Did any of you actually read the TV Tropes entry for The Fool? It's basically the opposite of the jester.


----------



## mewtini

RedneckPhoenix said:


> Seriously, guys. Did any of you actually read the TV Tropes entry for The Fool? It's basically the opposite of the jester.


lol i'm sorry RNP. i thought you were ghosting the game ngl
can you explain your reasoning for roleblocking n1 and n2?



RedneckPhoenix said:


> Why should we think that there are so many as 5 healers in this game when it seems more likely that at least one is lying?


fair

man do we have to investigate stryke all over again now


----------



## mewtini

mewtini said:


> man do we have to investigate stryke all over again now


er not stryke specifically. i mean the Situation at large


----------



## qenya

goddammit tcod, just when I think I've figured out what's going on 

(on the plus side this means I may not be responsible for eif's death so yay)


----------



## Keldeo

If Stryke continues to go un-counterclaimed as the nanobot doctor, I don't see why he isn't lying. 

I honestly don't see the problem with all our doctors - ILS and Stryke were the uncounterclaimed flavor doctors confirmed by IndigoEmmy. Then, VM wouldn't have been a healer if ILS wasn't first to die, kokorico wasn't a healer for the first two nights and wouldn't have been until some unknown activation condition, and Jack was according to VM not town-aligned.



mewtini said:


> (i know keldeo believes the claim, though, so i'm not super certain on my thoughts there).


Not since Mawile has been open about not being motion detector.


----------



## Mawile

I love how confusing this is getting. Spreadsheet time!


----------



## RedneckPhoenix

I threw a bunch of names I recognized into a list and rolled a die.


I've played mafia games with Stryke before. He's painting himself as inexperienced, but he's actually quite cunning when it comes down to it.


If this death is a healer clash, then there was either a bulletproof hit or the mafia's hitman was roleblocked.


----------



## mewtini

Keldeo said:


> Not since Mawile has been open about not being motion detector.


yeah i think my memory was just outdated, sorry about that

agree on the rest, i was forgetting VM was only a healer by chance.
i guess in this case there's the big q of how the eifie kill went through


----------



## Keldeo

Keldeo said:


> I don't see why he *is* lying.


Double negatives!

I have no idea what's going on with the situation, though, no matter if Stryke is or is not the doctor (because if RNP's block went through, his actual role shouldn't matter, and then we again have one claimed heal on Eif). Maybe RNP was redirected or blocked, so Stryke's heal still went through and clashed with kokorico's?


----------



## RedneckPhoenix

It's also worth noting that my ability also freezes *Daytime Abilities* the following day. Terrorists can't explode, gladiators can't challenge, and some other third thing.


----------



## Mawile

RedneckPhoenix said:


> some other third thing


What's the third thing?


----------



## mewtini

RedneckPhoenix said:


> I threw a bunch of names I recognized into a list and rolled a die.


so it wasn't based on your reads or green/red leans on anyone?


Keldeo said:


> Maybe RNP was redirected or blocked, so Stryke's heal still went through and clashed with kokorico's?


wondering about this but also wondering if it's too much action? then again i guess that's just how it is now huh


RedneckPhoenix said:


> and some other third thing.


color me interested


----------



## RedneckPhoenix

Like I couldn't think of another day ability. They're uncommon.


----------



## RedneckPhoenix

Party Host? Is that a day ability? I dunno. Butterfree just clarified that it doesn't stop post-lynch abilities, like the jester winning or a Hunter shooting.


----------



## Keldeo

RedneckPhoenix said:


> If this death is a healer clash, then there was either a bulletproof hit or the mafia's hitman was roleblocked.


Wait, I don't get it. Since you blocked Stryke, the death can't be a healer clash since there was no other healer for kokorico to clash with, unless like, Flora is the real nanobot doctor and healed Eif last night without claiming.


----------



## Stryke

I guess thatd explain why Eifie kept asking for someone to vig Otter on D2 instead of just doing it herself, if she was really a vig (she was, right? the swapping thing has made it even harder to keep track of who has what)


----------



## kyeugh

RedneckPhoenix said:


> I can also be quite sure that ILS did not perform any actions Night Zero and that Kyeugh did not do anything Night One.


can confirm this.  rnp is the person who i thought was redirector, but it seems i misinterpreted the information.  i was indeed targeted by him night one, though.  i can post the name of his power trope for confirmation if need be, though hopefully that isn't necessary.


----------



## Ottercopter

Keldeo said:


> Maybe RNP was redirected or blocked, so Stryke's heal still went through and clashed with kokorico's?


It's possible, but I feel like RNP would be a pretty weird target before now, right? This is the first time he's _really_ participated in the game.


----------



## Mawile

inb4 6 healers now


----------



## kyeugh

kyeugh said:


> can confirm this.  rnp is the person who i thought was redirector, but it seems i misinterpreted the information.  i was indeed targeted by him night one, though.  i can post the name of his power trope for confirmation if need be, though hopefully that isn't necessary.


btw note: this means there may be no redirector!


----------



## Keldeo

aiui, Eifie's ability was Mysterious Informant -(D1 swap)-> Body Snatcher -(D2 swap)-> Non-Action Guy -(activation)-> Vigilante Man.

...I also just put the pieces together on why Eifie was insisting that Jack must have been a half-mafia doc, given her original MI info, haha.


----------



## Mawile

kyeugh said:


> btw note: this means there may be no redirector!


oof this messes up the "Conspiracy Theories #2" portion of my speadsheet


----------



## qenya

Keldeo said:


> @kokorico were you What Kind Of Lame Power Is Heart and ~destined for greatness~ too? Haha.


I had What Kind of Lame Power is Heart, Anyway?, but I didn't have the words "destined for greatness" in my PM, no. I actually had no indication I was likely to acquire a role midgame. Until last night, I assumed I was just a VT.

If Stryke _didn't_ heal Eifie, then that explains why the flavour seemed the same as the previous two deaths (which presumably were mafia kills). But in that case I have no explanation for why my heal on Eifie didn't protect her.


----------



## Mawile

kokorico said:


> that explains why the flavour seemed the same as the previous two deaths (which presumably were mafia kills)


what if every death was a healer clash


----------



## Keldeo

kokorico said:


> I had What Kind of Lame Power is Heart, Anyway?, but I didn't have the words "destined for greatness" in my PM, no. I actually had no indication I was likely to acquire a role midgame. Until last night, I assumed I was just a VT.


Cool! I've been completely making up the destined for greatness / knowing that my ability would change part - it makes me feel better that you didn't just copy what I was saying. 

Mmm, uh... is there any indication that your heal might not work? Maybe it's some sort of fake role and so was Vigilante Man, which would explain the lack of Eifie's kill either??


----------



## RedneckPhoenix

Are we so sure that there are multiple types of doctors? I admit that I was biding my time until something interesting I could talk about came up, and not really reading much of the thread, but from my ISOs and searching specifically for the words "nanobot" "white mage" and "doctor", I'm not fully convinced we're not on a wild goose chase.


----------



## Mawile

RedneckPhoenix said:


> Are we so sure that there are multiple types of doctors? I admit that I was biding my time until something interesting I could talk about came up, and not really reading much of the thread, but from my ISOs and searching specifically for the words "nanobot" "white mage" and "doctor", I'm not fully convinced we're not on a wild goose chase.


IndigoEmmy has an Mysterious Informant role stating that there's two doctors, one sciency and one magic and that they hate each other or something along those lines.


----------



## Ottercopter

Well, IM brought up the nanobots vs magic doctors conflict first (sometime around post 262), then ILS confirmed that he was a magic doctor right before he died and flipped town somewhere in the early 70's if that helps.


----------



## RedneckPhoenix

I'll roll with it for now, but I'm keeping that and the fact that there could be both an Innocent and Mafia Mysterious Informant in the back of my mind.


So.


----------



## kyeugh

that doesn't really make sense tbh


----------



## RedneckPhoenix

What would be important is if we knew how many third-party roles there were/are. Jack's flavor reads to me like some sort of third-party role who died before he got a chance to do anything, hence the Indignation. Perhaps some sort of Serial Killer or something.

I don't know how to read Boq's death. Either some sort of role who was able to, I don't know, help someone with his dying breath, or, again, a third party who achieved a wincon. 


Eifie reads like a vigilante death.


I'm sure you've all come to these conclusions already, but I'm stating my thoughts


----------



## kyeugh

RedneckPhoenix said:


> What would be important is if we knew how many third-party roles there were/are


why tbh
i don't see how we'd ever figure this out with any amount of certainty or what we would _do_ with that information even if we did


----------



## Keldeo

RedneckPhoenix said:


> Are we so sure that there are multiple types of doctors?


I think so - IndigoEmmy's mysterious informant information is the same as hopeandjoy's information from the last TV Tropes game. And every claimed doctor, including town ILS right before he died, has confirmed/agreed that there are two types of doctors that don't get along.


----------



## Mawile

RedneckPhoenix said:


> What would be important is if we knew how many third-party roles there were/are.


I mean, you don't need to get rid of the third party roles to win, right, since town just needs to get rid of all the mafia killing roles? So it shouldn't matter.


----------



## Keldeo

@Ottercopter, have you got any other thoughts on the mechanical situations today, or other reads?

@Vipera Magnifica, sorry, could I just confirm whether you inherit the first "town" role or the first "not mafia" role?

I think the consensus is that Jack is third party or some sort of "mafia that flips as non-mafia"? Based on the combination of Eifie's Mysterious Informant info and Negrek's information confirming him as this third evil Deadly Doctor, the fact that he died on night 0 so the mafia probably killed him, and the fact that VM inherited ILS's role instead of Jack's role despite inheriting "not mafia" roles.


----------



## mewtini

RedneckPhoenix said:


> I'll roll with it for now, but I'm keeping that and the fact that there could be both an Innocent and Mafia Mysterious Informant in the back of my mind.





RedneckPhoenix said:


> Eifie reads like a vigilante death.





RedneckPhoenix said:


> What would be important is if we knew how many third-party roles there were/are.


i'm ... confused on all of these


----------



## Mawile

inb4 he's actually third party MI with a one-shot vig ability


----------



## kyeugh

rnp wins when he shoots a third party player ending the game instantly


----------



## Mawile

everyone is third party except RNP


----------



## mewtini

there is no mafia. only 3p


----------



## Mawile

mewtini said:


> there is no mafia. only 3p


correct


----------



## Stryke

Wild conspiracy theory: there are actually two opposing third party factions within the game. One comprises a small subset of the town that can kill off members of the much larger faction during the night, while the other factions main goal is to weed out the first faction during the day via lynching


----------



## RedneckPhoenix

stryke i know where you live


----------



## RedneckPhoenix

Look. I'm gonna be honest and say that the town is at a disadvantage here. Numbers aren't in our favor.

If, suddenly, someone posts "Disco Inferno" in chat and 4 more people die bc Arso, then there is a good chance we're even more fucked.


----------



## RedneckPhoenix

Third parties are dangerous, and given that there's weird, powerful town roles, there's probably super powerful TP's, more than than the usual "get lynched" and "kill" wincons.


----------



## mewtini

RedneckPhoenix said:


> Look. I'm gonna be honest and say that the town is at a disadvantage here. Numbers aren't in our favor.


i like. kind of don't know how one is meant to respond to this influx of information but how do you know this for sure


----------



## RedneckPhoenix

4 people die and not a single one is mafia. That usually translates to "we need to work hard"


----------



## qenya

Keldeo said:


> Mmm, uh... is there any indication that your heal might not work? Maybe it's some sort of fake role and so was Vigilante Man, which would explain the lack of Eifie's kill either??


If this turns out to be the case I will not be a happy chicken D:<

What I'm starting to get a bit nervous about is that we don't seem to have any idea what the mafia are doing. The innocent roles say that the town wins when all mafia _killing roles_ have been eliminated, which implies the existence of mafia _non-killing roles_. Yet, if we take all the claims so far (except Mawile's) at face value, then everything that's happened so far is accounted for. If the mafia had non-killing roles and were using them, I would expect there to be at least _some_ effect that we couldn't explain yet. So that makes me think at least one of the claims is probably false (either a complete lie, or a real role that's actually mafia-aligned).

It's worth mentioning that, up to now, I had been assuming that kyeugh's mystery redirector was mafia, on the basis that its net effect so far seemed to have been to generate a lot of FUD among town. To be honest I'm still a little bit unclear why town!RNP would have roleblocked Stryke when Stryke had claimed doctor, hadn't been counterclaimed, and had explicitly been given orders about which night action to take. "Stryke seems cunning" is... underwhelming, as reasoning goes.

Only, equally, I don't see why mafia!RNP would have claimed at all. So, um. we're back to square one.


----------



## Mawile

kokorico said:


> What I'm starting to get a bit nervous about is that we don't seem to have any idea what the mafia are doing.


:)


----------



## qenya

kokorico said:


> Yet, if we take all the claims so far (except Mawile's) at face value, then everything that's happened so far is accounted for.


Sorry, everything except the confusion about how many heals were on Eifie and how she died. I'm confusing myself lol


----------



## mewtini

kokorico said:


> It's worth mentioning that, up to now, I had been assuming that kyeugh's mystery redirector was mafia, on the basis that its net effect so far seemed to have been to generate a lot of FUD among town. To be honest I'm still a little bit unclear why town!RNP would have roleblocked Stryke when Stryke had claimed doctor, hadn't been counterclaimed, and had explicitly been given orders about which night action to take. "Stryke seems cunning" is... underwhelming, as reasoning goes.


this basically sums out how i've been feeling tbh. i thought that redirector was mafia for sure lol and then got confused as things moved on



RedneckPhoenix said:


> 4 people die and not a single one is mafia. That usually translates to "we need to work hard"


also i thought jack was likely lost mafia lol
sorry if it was a dumb question, the way you said it that authoritatively made me think you Knew Something else


----------



## mewtini

mewtini said:


> sums out


or sums up even


Mawile said:


> :)


>:(


----------



## Mawile

mewtini said:


> also i thought jack was likely lost mafia lol


Just gonna drop a little bit of (maybe useless) info here: speaking as mafia, I still don't know what was up with Jack.


----------



## qenya

Mawile said:


> Just gonna drop a little bit of (maybe useless) info here: speaking as mafia, I still don't know what was up with Jack.


I've been meaning to ask. If you're mafia, and your cover's been blown, why are you bothering hinting to us about things we don't know about? Presumably it would be better for your team to keep quiet. In fact, if I was in your scumchat, I would be screaming at you to stfu.


----------



## Mawile

kokorico said:


> I've been meaning to ask. If you're mafia, and your cover's been blown, why are you bothering hinting to us about things we don't know about? Presumably it would be better for your team to keep quiet. In fact, if I was in your scumchat, I would be screaming at you to stfu.


Cause it's fun? I wanna know stuff as much as you guys do.


----------



## Mawile

It's the same reason I haven't given you my actual roleclaim yet. It's more fun to wait.


----------



## Mr. Ultracool

Maybe you could post your claim in the form of an anagram, then? That worked out so well in the past! Or how about in Morse code?


----------



## Mawile

Or I could post it later on in the day phase and watch everyone try and figure it out! :) It's not super relevant to any current discussion.


----------



## Herbe

i no longer have any domain over mawile tbh. he's doin his own dance


----------



## IndigoClaudia

Mawile said:


> It's the same reason I haven't given you my actual role claim yet. It's more fun to wait.


We're lynching you pretty soon, can you just roleclaim anyway?


----------



## mewtini

IndigoEmmy said:


> We're lynching you pretty soon, can you just roleclaim anyway?


there's still like a day left and it's not like he's actually trying to help us 100% i think


----------



## IndigoClaudia

ok but you better tell us before we lynch you mawile.


----------



## Mawile

IndigoEmmy said:


> ok but you better tell us before we lynch you mawile.


I will! :)


----------



## qenya

Oh. Oh shit.

OK, this is a theory that just popped into my mind, prompted by RNP's speculation about third parties a moment ago. This might seem a little convoluted but bear with me.

Suppose that Mawile was _not a member of the mafia in-group_ - maybe a terrorist, maybe a third-party, hell, maybe even just a scummy-looking innocent. Under any of those circumstances, the mafia would believe he was an innocent, and would be delighted to target the two of them last night in order to get two nightkills for the price of one.

So, I think it's a reasonable assumption that one of these two is the case:

Mawile is in-group mafia, as we've been assuming, or
The mafia tried to off Mawile and Herbe last night and failed.
We'll take option 2 first. Why might the mafia try and fail to kill Mawile or Herbe?

It wasn't a doctor. Stryke and I targeted Eifie (and maybe roleblock shenanigans were involved); VM targeted kyeugh. I refuse to believe that there are MORE healing roles out there. It also wasn't town!RNP, who says he targeted Stryke, or mafia!RNP, who would have to be crazy to block his own faction nightkill. Eifie was a possibly-false vigilante, not a bodyguard, and no other possible bodyguards died. So either some unforeseen role was involved, or Mawile or Herbe was simply immune to nightkills.

Updating our possibilities:

Mawile is in-group mafia, or
Mawile and Herbe are non-mafia, and one of them was immune to nightkills on Night 2, or
Some other unknown role is involved.
Now, someone (kyeugh?) mentioned earlier that motion detector was an oddly cavalier claim. She's not wrong! A false claim of no movement, if it happens to land on a power role, is insanely easy to disprove. When Mawile claimed to have tracked me and found no movement, he must have known there would be a decent chance he would guess incorrectly and come off as scum. Arguably it was useful to out me as a doctor, but I'm not convinced that giving up a mafioso for the _chance_ to identify a power role is a good trade-off for mafia.

That leaves us with:

Mawile is in-group mafia and is playing very badly and giving away information to town for free after being outed, or
Mawile and Herbe are non-mafia, one of them was immune to nightkills on Night 2, and Mawile is now actively trying to be lynched, or
Some other unknown role is involved.
Option 2 should be sounding extremely scary riiight about now.

*TL;DR:* It might not be the _most_ likely scenario, but I think there is at least a non-negligible chance that Mawile is an activated alien. I propose we find someone else to lynch today and, since our only possibly-a-vig has gone to the angels, attempt to kill Mawile by healer clash during N3.* Unvote.*


----------



## qenya

(Thanks for coming to my TED talk. I will not taking questions immediately because I have a coursework deadline in fifty-eight minutes)


----------



## mewtini

the fact that mawile wow-reacted ... LOL. excited to hear keldeo's thoughts, but the way mawile's talked/alluded to his role ("my pm states that i don't inherit killing powers," etc) makes me think this is not the case? but i see your point. good idea tbh



kokorico said:


> Mawile is in-group mafia and is playing very badly and giving away information to town for free after being outed,


i guess i have to go back and look since i've not been very thread-involved today (have been in classes) but i kind of didn't think he'd given away anything that was actually valuable?


----------



## Ottercopter

(Keldeo, rereading the thread to post thoughts like you requested. Might be a bit, but I'll try and get it done tonight!)

Possible counterpoint to the activated alien theory, Butterfree's Mafia Rules thread says that an alien only shows up as mafia once they've been activated. Rari_teh says that they inspected Mawile as Mafia on night one, but there haven't really been any clear changes in the circumstances or number of deaths over the past three nights.
Eifie's death is pretty ambiguous with RNP's claim being at odds with the possibility of a healer clash, but... that's the night after.
And it's probably not a vigilante activation because I was a more obvious target for that and nobody's confessed to trying to kill Mawile even though we have a declared vigilante????


----------



## Herbe

i call shenanigans


----------



## Mawile

mewtini said:


> i kind of didn't think he'd given away anything that was actually valuable


I don't think so either tbh


----------



## mewtini

just ftr koko's recent thread involvement has cemented them as town for me. good spec that's not so out there as to be inviting chaos, but just out there enough to show that e's not just vibing along with the crowd



Ottercopter said:


> Rari_teh says that they inspected Mawile as Mafia on night one, but there haven't really been any clear changes in the circumstances or number of deaths over the past three nights.


yep

like if there are multiplying reasons to avoid a mawile lynch (which i don't think is/will be the case) then rari's other wolfread, MF, could be next in line - especially as the chances of a redirect or roleblock on rari seem to decrease - but idk if that's totally relevant exactly now?


----------



## Mawile

kokorico said:


> playing very badly


:( I'm just having fun


----------



## IndigoClaudia

Well people, i gotta call it a night.
Goodnight.


----------



## IndigoClaudia

Just to clarify: i still look at this thread on my kindle but for whatever reason i can't log in on my kindle so all i can do is see. SO I CAN see what shenanigans y'all get up to during the evening hours.


----------



## Panini

kokorico said:


> *TL;DR:* It might not be the _most_ likely scenario, but I think there is at least a non-negligible chance that Mawile is an activated alien. I propose we find someone else to lynch today and, since our only possibly-a-vig has gone to the angels, attempt to kill Mawile by healer clash during N3.* Unvote.*


Consider tho:


rari_teh said:


> Welp, blame kyeugh on this one. I’m lighting my cigarrette, for this is almost certainly my last Day alive.
> 
> I am a Private Detective and my power is Stalking Mission. Which means, I’m a regular alignment cop. No quirks that I know of.
> 
> N0 Mr. Ultracool: not mafia
> N1 Mawile: mafia
> N2 M&F: mafia
> 
> That is all information I got. I hope we do the right thing.


Rari getting a mafia check on Mawile N1 doesn't make sense if they're an alien that hadn't been activated yet because according to the game rules they should still be in pre-activation and show as not mafia right? So then either we have to speculate even _further _that there's some sort of messing around with Rari's results still or that they lied. Either feels like you're starting to approach the event horizon on Occam's razor.


----------



## RedneckPhoenix

innocent people don't use emoticons


----------



## Mawile

RedneckPhoenix said:


> innocent people don't use emoticons


:(


----------



## RedneckPhoenix

kokorico said:


> To be honest I'm still a little bit unclear why town!RNP would have roleblocked Stryke when Stryke had claimed doctor, hadn't been counterclaimed, and had explicitly been given orders about which night action to take. "Stryke seems cunning" is... underwhelming, as reasoning goes.



I have a personal vendetta against both Stryke and doctor claims.


----------



## Stryke

RedneckPhoenix said:


> I have a personal vendetta against both Stryke and doctor claims.


It's cool guys the vendetta against me and vendetta against doctors cancel out so really I'm the most trustworthy person here


----------



## mewtini

Mawile said:


> :(


:((


RedneckPhoenix said:


> I have a personal vendetta against both Stryke and doctor claims.


this ... seems insufficient?


----------



## Mawile

Stryke said:


> It's cool guys the vendetta against me and vendetta against doctors cancel out so really I'm the most trustworthy person here


Yeah, those canceling out is like how nanobot healing and magic healing cancel out to kill the target, right?


----------



## mewtini

tbh i know i'm memeing a lot but some of the stuff with rnp is literally making me feel like i'm just losing my mind


----------



## Stryke

RedneckPhoenix said:


> I have a personal vendetta against both Stryke and doctor claims.


Is this about mafia choice mafia or something totally different


----------



## rari_teh

I log off for ONE DAY and everything turns upside down lol

I’ll compile a Thoughts (R) post.


----------



## qenya

ok

I.. _may_ have completely forgotten about rari's n1 red on Mawile.

sorry about that.

but that doesn't mean I'm not still wary of his posting behaviour. he's still talking to everyone around him, which gives townies more competent than me the opportunity to make interaction reads. and, if really mafia, he has given us two big pieces of info which we might have guessed but are useful to have confirmed:

The mafia don has a killing ability that he (Mawile) can't inherit (#3293)
JackPK was not known to the mafia before D1 (#3399)
I just. don't know. none of this seems like normal scumplay and I don't like it at all.


----------



## Mawile

kokorico said:


> I just. don't know. none of this seems like normal scumplay and I don't like it at all.


Nah, I'm just legitimately unable to play a game of mafia regularly, I think.


----------



## Mawile

kokorico said:


> JackPK was not known to the mafia before D1 (#3399)


Just cause I don't know doesn't necessarily mean that nobody else knew.


----------



## RedneckPhoenix

Stryke said:


> Is this about mafia choice mafia or something totally different


This is why. I don't bring up your old posts, do I? No. Asshole.


----------



## mewtini

kokorico said:


> The mafia don has a killing ability that he (Mawile) can't inherit (#3293)


but idk if this reveals a lot about the game at large? it seems to just relate to mawile/his role, at least the way i'm interpreting it, in which case it means virtually nothing to us

like. fwiw i think mawile is playing less bizarrely for an outed wolf than RNP is for a town roleblocker lol


----------



## kyeugh

*weird out of the blue post that attempts to move pressure off mawile* seems normal *weird out of the blue post that attempts to move pressure off mawile* seems normal *weird out of the blue post that attempts to move pressure off mawile* seems nor


----------



## Mawile

kyeugh said:


> *weird out of the blue post that attempts to move pressure off mawile* seems normal *weird out of the blue post that attempts to move pressure off mawile* seems normal *weird out of the blue post that attempts to move pressure off mawile* seems nor


Would you like to add another post to the pile of posts trying to take pressure off me?


----------



## Mawile

It's the popular thing to do, apparently.


----------



## Panini

Yeah I don't think I feel particularly weird about Mawile's outted play either? As mewtini's said I don't think either of those points seems to break the game open in anyway. The one about JackPK if anything means he might be a 3P entity but we shouldn't be prescribing to that anyway in case it is in fact a lie?

As for the interaction reads: everyone on his team should be aware that he's outted as this point and to fake interactions anyway so there's no value here or there to like. poking in a couple one liners and having a little fun.


----------



## Mawile

Panini said:


> everyone on his team should be aware that he's outted as this point


If they're not aware that I've been outed by this point, even with just how I'm acting, I don't really know what to say.


----------



## mewtini

kyeugh said:


> *weird out of the blue post that attempts to move pressure off mawile* seems normal *weird out of the blue post that attempts to move pressure off mawile* seems normal *weird out of the blue post that attempts to move pressure off mawile* seems nor


not sure how sincere you were being, but if this was about kokorico's posts, i didn't really think e sounded like a wolf trying to deflect so much as e was throwing theories out there (/with how far the wagon's gone, i think someone trying to stop it now would be borderline foolish to do so) and koko then saying "oh, i forgot about the red read" sounded like a fair enough 'backtrack' to me

that being said i a) don't think stopping the lynch makes any sense, and my vote remains squarely on mawile lol and b) koko hasn't moved eir vote back onto mawile so idrk

i do think a more valuable use of our time would be talking about what we need to figure out, seeing as we have like 24 hours left and a (hopefully) decided lynch


----------



## Keldeo

kyeugh said:


> *weird out of the blue post that attempts to move pressure off mawile* seems normal *weird out of the blue post that attempts to move pressure off mawile* seems normal *weird out of the blue post that attempts to move pressure off mawile* seems nor





Panini said:


> Yeah I don't think I feel particularly weird about Mawile's outted play either? As mewtini's said I don't think either of those points seems to break the game open in anyway. The one about JackPK if anything means he might be a 3P entity but we shouldn't be prescribing to that anyway in case it is in fact a lie?
> 
> As for the interaction reads: everyone on his team should be aware that he's outted as this point and to fake interactions anyway so there's no value here or there to like. poking in a couple one liners and having a little fun.


Do either of you have non-mechanical takes on how people have handled the current situation / thoughts on RNP's claim and what happened to the kills last night? :0


----------



## qenya

mewtini said:


> but idk if this reveals a lot about the game at large? it seems to just relate to mawile/his role, at least the way i'm interpreting it, in which case it means virtually nothing to us


oh, hmm, really? I interpreted it as talking about mafia roles in general. Though yeah I can see how you got your read. He seems to have been hinting at being out-group mafia, doesn't he? (not that that's necessarily worth putting much stock in either, since we know for sure he's at least antitown)

[and, OOgame: If you actually _are_ just mafia, Mawile, then I apologise for saying you were "playing very badly" and hypo-telling you to stfu. that was uncalled for, however odd your playstyle seems to me.]

I think I'm just going to go to bed and hope to have descended a little way down Mt. Stupid tomorrow.


----------



## Mawile

kokorico said:


> [and, OOgame: If you actually _are_ just mafia, Mawile, then I apologise for saying you were "playing very badly" and hypo-telling you to stfu. that was uncalled for, however odd your playstyle seems to me.]


No worries! I thought it was funny.


----------



## mewtini

kokorico said:


> He seems to have been hinting at being out-group mafia, doesn't he?


honestly, i don't think we know, like, anything of value given his claims (other than he's maf); the "i don't inherit a killing ability" was only said as a kind of comical defense when someone (neg?) noted that town wins once all mafia killing roles get eliminated, not necessarily all maf

but also i do genuinely like that you even bothered writing out that take, i appreciate it


----------



## Mawile

mewtini said:


> "i don't inherit a killing ability" was only said as a kind of comical defense


:)


----------



## mewtini

like hypothetically, even if mawile isn't red (lmao), it would still clear things up more than any other lynch across the game. so


Mawile said:


> :)


bro don't taunt me like this

(also i guess i implied it was made-up? which wasn't an intended implication, tho i don't think it matters anyways)


----------



## Mawile

I mean, maybe some people can inherit a mafia killing ability. I can't :(


----------



## rari_teh

kokorico said:


> I thought it would be sensible to pick a different, experienced player high up on my probably-town list. So I healed Eifie.


♪ loving can hurt… sometimes… ♫ :'(


Keldeo said:


> I have no idea what's going on with the situation, though, no matter if Stryke is or is not the doctor (because if RNP's block went through, his actual role shouldn't matter, and then we again have one claimed heal on Eif). Maybe RNP was redirected or blocked, so Stryke's heal still went through and clashed with kokorico's?


This makes my head hurt tbh


RedneckPhoenix said:


> It's also worth noting that my ability also freezes *Daytime Abilities* the following day. Terrorists can't explode, gladiators can't challenge, and some other third thing.


The other third thing must be the it’s not you, it’s me thing… which leads me to think of useful ways to make everybody unsure whether Keldeo swaps tropes or not


Keldeo said:


> I've been completely making up the destined for greatness / knowing that my ability would change part


Wait, then how did you get that part right (your (Eif’s) ability changing later/gaining powers)?! Lucky guess?


Keldeo said:


> which would explain the lack of Eifie's kill either


Maybe vig kills happen after the action of whomever killed her.


RedneckPhoenix said:


> If, suddenly, someone posts "Disco Inferno" in chat and 4 more people die bc Arso, then there is a good chance we're even more fucked.


If something funky happens by tomorrow, I’m calling that typing out _Disco Inferno_ was an intentional trigger /s


Mawile said:


> It's the same reason I haven't given you my actual roleclaim yet. It's more fun to wait.


You’re just gonna make us wait until Negrek says your role, aren’t you :(


RedneckPhoenix said:


> innocent people don't use emoticons


How could you say such thing?! :o


----------



## Mawile

rari_teh said:


> You’re just gonna make us wait until Negrek says your role, aren’t you :(


Ah yes, I'll just post after I die.


----------



## mewtini

rari_teh said:


> Wait, then how did you get that part right (your (Eif’s) ability changing later/gaining powers)?! Lucky guess?


i think he was just referring to pm flavortext?


----------



## mewtini

rari_teh said:


> ♪ loving can hurt… sometimes… ♫ :'(


i'm not even lying rn i had a dream the other night that i got married to ed sheeran and i woke up in a cold sweat at 5:30am
anyway


rari_teh said:


> This makes my head hurt tbh


me @ everything


----------



## rari_teh

mewtini said:


> i think he was just referring to pm flavortext?


I don’t follow?


----------



## mewtini

rari_teh said:


> I don’t follow?


the destined for greatness thing was what keldeo had been saying was in the text of his role pm, but he later said he'd been making up that part of the flavor. there wasn't a guessing aspect to it


Keldeo said:


> I don't think there's any benefit to concealing it now that it's no longer my role - my trope was Non-Action Guy and my power was What Kind Of Lame Power Is Heart Anyway - I couldn't do anything at the start but from how it was written I would have gotten some kind of power upgrade at some point, but now I guess we don't get to know.





Keldeo said:


> @kokorico were you What Kind Of Lame Power Is Heart and ~destined for greatness~ too? Haha.


----------



## rari_teh

mewtini said:


> the destined for greatness thing was what keldeo had been saying was in the text of his role pm, but he later said he'd been making up that part of the flavor. there wasn't a guessing aspect to it


Got it. Thanks

Just to clarify: the running theory for Eifie’s murder is either mafia strongman bypassing kokorico’s heal or the heal not going through somehow?


----------



## mewtini

rari_teh said:


> Got it. Thanks
> 
> Just to clarify: the running theory for Eifie’s murder is either mafia strongman bypassing kokorico’s heal or the heal not going through somehow?


np! i don't think there's a running theory, we were all chilling once it seemed to definitively be a healer clash and i don't think a new agreement has emerged since RNP's claim

i can't believe i've infiltrated both your and herbe's signatures now ... i'm so honored


----------



## Panini

Keldeo said:


> Do either of you have non-mechanical takes on how people have handled the current situation / thoughts on RNP's claim and what happened to the kills last night? :0


I mean okay, I know you said non-mechanical but I think we're in too deep to go without incorporating it, so just to lay it out:
Stryke claimed to have Nanomachine doctored Eifie last night
Kokoriko claimed to have White Mage doctored Eifie last night
RNP claimed to have Roleblocked Stryke so then the only person doctoring Eifie should have Kokorico
But the kill went through anyway somehow (Or Eifie died somehow from an unidentified second source)

I'm having some trouble wrapping my head around this because I think RNP coming out of the woodwork to claim is very on par with what I know about his town game. In fact it's basically the same way he played MU invitational 2 where he was the only power role and putzed around a bit early game and lurked until he revealed in the late game for maximum role value. Also his claim makes little sense to disturb an already solved puzzle unless he really wants to put some leverage on koko/Stryke in spots where they would normally be clear but that doesn't make sense for me from a motivation stand point because mafia should be up on the numbers right now and don't need to make plays like this, even if losing Mawile today. (Arguably if Herbe is also maf and they're w/w lovers for some reason (lol) this is not as true but I kind of prescribe to the theory Herbe is just 3P or if maf is lying about the lovers thing).

RNP is shading Stryke - and admittedly Stryke has the clearest motive to lie about this given that he was up for lynch prior to his claim - however him being mafia solves functionally nothing in the what happened to Eifie problem because whether RNP stops Stryke from healing Eifie or whether RNP stops Stryke from doing nothing that should still leave one functional heal from Koko on her last night.
(Sidenote: Stryke's also not counter claimed as a nanomachine doctor for some reason even though we know that there's one in the game. It's possible the real one is open to the possibility of there being multiple ones and so hasn't yet come forward for their own safety? But that's the only explanation I can think of that isn't just. Stryke is the nanobot doc.)

So the natural conclusion are that Koko either:
a) healed Eifie but mafia got through anyway with some kind of strongman kill (the no-one-is-actually-lying world)
b) lied about healing Eifie, mafia killed her
c) clashed with yet ANOTHER nano doctor (imo very unlikely, also lol if Eifie had three doctors on her and died anyway) or was interfered with by ANOTHER redirector/roleblocker 

For a second I also considered "what if not all doctors are town aligned" but it seems deeply unfun to have the mafia doctor just mimic whoever the kill gets put on effectively making the town doc useless.

I think overall I kind of want to lean a)? even though it's the possibility that most relies on the idea that we don't have perfect enough information to fully solve the issue yet. It's mostly because I think putting everything aside kokorico's paranoia speculation is a little towny (yes, even if it comes off as a last ditch attempt to deshade Mawile, because Mawile's very clearly playing at this point as though he's outted so it doesn't make sense for the rest of his team to be trying to make weird plays to save him unless he has a very important role? also it feels fleshed enough out in tone that my gut is to believe he actually buys that take?)

If it's b) though I think that makes more sense as to why kokorico would sporadically out himself as a doc - I can see a world where Stryke and kokorico set up this to look like a doctor clash when it is in fact a normal kill and the RNP info being revealed later just kind of screws them unexpectedly. Caveat there is two things: 
a) refer back to to sidenote about will the real nanobot please stand up (if it's not stryke) 
b) like everyone else has been saying, weird tact when stryke could have said that he targeted literally anyone else.

It's possible instead that koko jumps on Stryke saying that he healed Eifie with a counter explanation for her death to try and paint emself in a good light with a back-able claim, but I think that makes the least sense because e'd be stepping in _knowing_ that the kill went through when it should have (and therefore Stryke was messed with) while making emself the reason why it supposedly shouldn't have.

Sorry if this is convuluted I'm basically saying:

I don't think RNP is lying in most worlds
I think the worlds are either all of them are telling the truth and the situation is such that we literally are just not accounting for things we don't know about yet OR it should probably be exactly koko and STryke if one of them is mafia but I think Stryke w has slightly more qualifications than koko w. Right now I'm leaning the former.


----------



## Mawile

For what it's worth, I'm just as confused about the Eifie situation as you all are (if not more).


----------



## kyeugh

mewtini said:


> not sure how sincere you were being, but if this was about kokorico's posts, i didn't really think e sounded like a wolf trying to deflect so much as e was throwing theories out there (/with how far the wagon's gone, i think someone trying to stop it now would be borderline foolish to do so) and koko then saying "oh, i forgot about the red read" sounded like a fair enough 'backtrack' to me


seems n


Keldeo said:


> Do either of you have non-mechanical takes on how people have handled the current situation / thoughts on RNP's claim and what happened to the kills last night? :0


rnp's claim aligns with the information i had on him, so i believe him well enough.  i find his play kind of weird but i mean i guess that's kind of classic tbh.  as for what happened last night... idk, i guess healer clash makes the most sense.  did that end up disproven somehow?  to be honest, a lot of the stuff that's happened toDay is kind of falling out of my brain and i only remember impressions, so i need to reread, haha.


----------



## mewtini

kyeugh said:


> seems n


:/


kyeugh said:


> idk, i guess healer clash makes the most sense. did that end up disproven somehow?


rnp's saying that he blocked one of the healers that would have been involved in the clash


----------



## Herbe

im just along for the ride right now tbh

crackpot: what if doctors switch nights on where their healing works? even number nights for white mage, and odd for nanobot, or vice versa? cause hoooo that's a lot of healing roles/heal targets to have otherwise in each night.
(obviously unlikely but might as well throw it out)


----------



## Herbe

nevermind thats dumb because how would healer clash get implemented. Sorry


----------



## Mawile

personally I would like to see Chaos and have Everyone Heal All The Time


----------



## Ottercopter

Okay, read through done! (After a few minor distractions including, but not limited to a Promare watch party. it was okay.) I don't have that much to say, especially after a lot of people already made good observations with various long posts, buuuut

Seshas mentioned the possibility that mafia can maybe bypass doctors on even numbered nights because we have so many doctors in the game. That feels like a bit much when, like someone else said, a lot of people seemed to inherit those roles by chance. But maybe the Mafia have a non-killing role that lets them do something along those lines? Like isolating a target from all other night actions, but only once? Or if certain conditions are met (maybe another trigger phrase like the roleswapping)? Eifie feels like a weird choice for that if there is some kind of doctor bypass either way. Why bypass a doctor for one night when you can guarantee a kill on them instead?
 Just throwing out random suggestions because I'm honestly having a hard time sorting out Eifie's death among all the doctor claims, healer clash, and roleblocking talk. I think that's a personal problem, though. 
Am I misremembering that if we take the situation at face value, there shouldn't've been a healer clash because of RNP's roleblocking?

Also, I'm skeptic of MF until we see how Mawile flips upon death, but if we're willing to try experimenting with flips to see why everyone she checked got Mafia... How about inspecting Ultracool? Or did someone already suggest that...?

Oh, and on the note of Mawile, probably goes without saying, buuuut I don't see much reason to give credence to anything he says (Gonna be pretty wary of Herbe too). Although there isn't really a point in lying about his trope specifically since Negrek should be able to reveal it the next day. God, there is so much to process today.


----------



## Keldeo

Ottercopter said:


> Am I misremembering that if we take the situation at face value, there shouldn't've been a healer clash because of RNP's roleblocking?


No, you're remembering correctly! If every claimed night action last night is true and succeeded, Eifie should have been healed by kokorico and no one else. 



Ottercopter said:


> I'm skeptic of MF until we see how Mawile flips upon death


Maybe this is a silly question, but what would Mawile's death flip (not mafia vs. mafia) mean for your interpretation of MF's alignment? Since you seem to think Mawile's anti-town, but seem to believe MF's claim later on in that sentence.

Do you have any generalized thoughts about Panini and Mist1422?


----------



## Ottercopter

Keldeo said:


> No, you're remembering correctly! If every claimed night action last night is true and succeeded, Eifie should have been healed by kokorico and no one else.
> 
> 
> Maybe this is a silly question, but what would Mawile's death flip (not mafia vs. mafia) mean for your interpretation of MF's alignment? Since you seem to think Mawile's anti-town, but seem to believe MF's claim later on in that sentence.
> 
> Do you have any generalized thoughts about Panini and Mist1422?


What Negrek said, basically! People had suspicions, but Rari_teh's roleclaim cemented Mawile's death and implicates MF so long as Mawile flips mafia. I don't really believe MF, it's just like when I tried to suggest we figure out who Mawile should motion detect. Juuuuuust in case, I don't wanna risk wasting a night action/possible information in this case.

No thoughts on Mist since they don't post much. Panini, I didn't really retain much. I guess they're okay? I'll look over their posts again tomorrow morning since I know they made a few long ones recently. Gonna sleep now, so take care.


----------



## Herbe

Ottercopter said:


> (Gonna be pretty wary of Herbe too)


This is entirely fair, and most of the reason that I've kinda been... wary about thoughtsposting I guess? Cause I know I'm not really trustworthy right now, but that was just the situation I was thrown in. I don't want to derail/distract town too much, either, because y'all would get worried about my motivation/incentives about posts right now. It's also awkward for me to post about mawile since I still kinda want to be loyal? Like yes, for all my regular townfolk lynching mawile is the obvious move. But :(((
I'll be benign once Mawile is killed, and try to be helpful to town like I've tried to be before since there will be 0 incentive for me to be sneaksy anymore. (But also... please forgive me if I seem to get less engaged. It's a lot easier to engage when you know you have a shot at winning.)


----------



## Mr. Ultracool

Panini said:


> For a second I also considered "what if not all doctors are town aligned" but it seems deeply unfun to have the mafia doctor just mimic whoever the kill gets put on effectively making the town doc useless.


Well, the Mysterious Informant role Eifie and I had quite bluntly stated that there was an evil doctor afoot, but I assumed untill now that that had been JackPK due to somebody who claimed the ability to see the Rolenames of the dead registering him as a "Deadly Doctor". Maybe that role is inheritable, or there are some other shenanigans surrounding it? Perhaps JackPK isn't dead, after all?


----------



## Keldeo

Mr. Ultracool said:


> Well, the Mysterious Informant role Eifie and I had quite bluntly stated that there was an evil doctor afoot, but I assumed untill now that that had been JackPK due to somebody who claimed the ability to see the Rolenames of the dead registering him as a "Deadly Doctor". Maybe that role is inheritable, or there are some other shenanigans surrounding it? Perhaps JackPK isn't dead, after all?


Oh hmm, so your info just says that there was an evil doctor and that's all? It doesn't mention the doctor specifically being Deadly Doctor?


----------



## Mr. Ultracool

No, it just states that an evil doctor exists. Do you think that the DD might not have been the evil one meant, or that maybe there were even multiple evil doctors around?


----------



## Keldeo

Mr. Ultracool said:


> No, it just states that an evil doctor exists. Do you think that the DD might not have been the evil one meant, or that maybe there were even multiple evil doctors around?


Oh no, sorry, I just thought it was specifically about the deadly doctor. 

I think... it's probably a little mean if there are multiple evil doctors given that information, hehe. I would expect that it refers to the deadly doctor if the nanobot doctor, Stryke, is town.


----------



## Keldeo

Quick fleshing out of my reads based on the new mech info, and some interactions assuming MF and Mawile are mafia. I probably still have too many townreads.

I'm not entirely sure if Mawile is group mafia based on some of the way he's been acting - him seeming confused by some of the mechanical situations, for instance - and if he isn't, some of the stuff I mention as interactions clearing people aren't valid. But if VM and Negrek are to be believed, Jack was likely already non-group mafia? A thought that's crossed my mind is maybe none of the mafia know each other, or few do, because if VM only inherits "not mafia" roles, that means Jack was full-blown mafia, and then it would be pretty weird for him to die on night 1. 

I also think it's plausible that the mafia have some sort of recruitment ability or more kills or another weird strings-pulling thing, particularly given the town power that we've seen, so I think we shouldn't get complacent - let's keep reevaluating and pressing people for stances and stuff in future days!

*Townreads*
Mr. Ultracool: Has Eifie's SOD1 role, so he's pretty much guaranteed town to me based on the fact that Eifie cleared him.
rari_teh: Pure early posting, un-counterclaimed cop
kyeugh: Super skeptical treatment of Mawile's EOD2 - this holds less water if Mawile isn't actually group mafia, but going against the lazy Odie wagon is still a pretty good look
mewtini: Active and solvey, so I haven't looked back at any interactions with Mawile or MF. At some point I might drop her to a lower tier but I am currently sheeping Eifie being pocketed by her.

*Town For Claim*
IndigoEmmy / Seshas: They haven't been super participatory, but they're both Mysterious Informants who claimed early with info that seems legit. Specifically both of their d1 claims seemed very agenda-less to me.
kokorico: Contradicted Mawile's story earlier toDay, and claimed a very similar role to my original role that fills in a lot of blanks from last night (Eifie's death, Negrek's getting the wrong role name) while also not buying my made-up flavor red herring. If e made the latter up, props. There is still the weirdness around Eifie's death given RNP's claim, but I'm fairly inclined to believe em.
Stryke: So we don't know for sure that the nanobot doctor is town, and without looking back it still bugs me a little bit that both Mawile and he went for Odie_pie instead of each other yesterDay, but assuming that Jack was the "evil doctor", he's seemed fair enough. 
Negrek: Early claim. Seems to be providing good information so far. Assuming Mawile is group mafia, I think Mawile's posts today imply her role is real and she believes the knowledge she gets to be true, regardless of her alignment. There was an early post where Mawile asked to clarify if her ability could also get the ability names of lynched people, which probably doesn't actually mean anything
VM: Early claim. If Mawile is group mafia, Mawile's post to VM about VM's outlandish claim is a decent look for him. 

(there are hopefully, like, at most 2 mafia in the above?)

*Middle Tier*, not really sorted
serimachi: No strong opinion about his posting. I kind of want to townread him off of Herbe making that elaborated push on him mid-d2, but that requires Mawile to be group mafia and Herbe to be aware of the mafia through him. MF also hopped on the pushing him train despite earlier disavowing an inactive lynch.
Ottercopter: I wasn't overly impressed by her EOD yesterday on a skim, but soliciting people for Mawile to "motion detect" was alright. Overall her claim is believable enough, but at some point I need to go back and look at her EOD1 (and how mafia treated her EODs) and make sure it all makes sense.
Redneckphoenix: Posts are, like, fine? + kyeugh vouches for his role seeming legit. I am confused and not sure what happened with Eifie's death based on that, though, short of like koko not actually being a doctor, or RNP getting blocked or something.
Panini: Her posts are fine too, but mainly mechanical. Probably need to look back at her EOD2 and treatment of the wagons, I guess. MF sort of talking past / weaponizing her townlean of me is alright for her. Although MF's main conclusion from looking through Boq's posts was pushing me and not anyone else Boq pushed (e.g. Panini).
Flora: is missed :c
Mist1422: is Mist! (rimshot)

*Herbe and the Red Checks* (indie folk band name)
Herbe: I eagerly await the Herbe Tell-All. Again I'm not totally clearing him unless and until we know more about his connection to Mawile. 
MF: There are definitely the edge cases where she's an insane cop, but I think resolving her should probably be a priority since the check on her seems to be our next best lead.
Mawile: Don't particularly think he's an activated alien because Rari's red check was n1 and he seemed very self-preserving EOD2.


----------



## Keldeo

Would appreciate opinions on any of [serimachi / Otter / RNP / Panini / Mist], or the situation where RNP blocked half of the supposed healer clash that killed Eifie. I thought back to the original speculation that Eifie was Vigilante Man and couldn't stand targeting an innocent, so her own kill backfired on her and she was also targeted by the mafia kill so it went through kokorico's layer of protection, or something? It resolves the situation but it's weird and I don't really like it. 

I probably won't be around very much before deadline. *Vote Mawile*


----------



## Keldeo

rari_teh said:


> It was COVID-19 Mafia all along! (dun dun DUUUUN)


It's not you, it's me!

@rari_teh Maybe give Bfree a few hours, and then quote one of my posts with "it's not you, it's me"? RNP's day action blocking effect shouldn't have any effect on this going through, I don't think. 

On the topic of his role, if I'm understanding it right, "roleblock someone and then all day abilities are suppressed for the next day phase" feels kind of disconnected as a single role but it seems like kyeugh confirmed his roleblock effect and I have no idea why he'd make up the second part or claim now if he were mafia.


----------



## Keldeo

Spoiler


----------



## Keldeo

Keldeo said:


> @rari_teh Maybe give Bfree a few hours, and then quote one of my posts with "it's not you, it's me"?


Haha, so actually I still feel like this might be a silly way to use this power because we could just have you continue to be the cop, and that way the medics don't have to guess which person has the cop ability tonight either.

Maybe should we try and swap with someone else who isn't very active? Like I could try to confirm RNP or Otter's role, or something.


----------



## Keldeo

@Ottercopter do you know what exactly happens if the mafia kill you? Do you like, exit the game victorious, or do you just die normally, or something else?


----------



## IndigoClaudia

Keldeo said:


> Spoiler


this is by far the purest meme made specifically for mafia i've seen yet.


----------



## IndigoClaudia

Keldeo said:


> (there are hopefully, like, at most 2 mafia in the above?)


oh gosh we can trust no one.


----------



## IndigoClaudia

I feel like i need a list now

*Town?*
mewtini: Mewtini seems to be town... very much. She atively guesses to the point where she probably is not mafia.

*Town For Claim*
Me: Said a weird claim about something that people believe me about and should because it's true so here i am.
Kokorico: Claimed something the other day right?
VM: Also claimed right?


*IDK*
everyone that isn't in one of these lists

*Dangers to society*
Herbe: Uhh... something shady? I hope he's not actually up to anything. I can't wait to see the whole story.
MF: IS SO SUSPICIOUS I JUST SHE'S VERY SUSPICIOUS
Mawile: *IS TWICE AS SUSPICIOUS AS ABOVE. MAWILE IS DEFINITELY MAFIA*


----------



## IndigoClaudia

IndigoEmmy said:


> atively


******ACTIVELY NOT ATIVELY


----------



## IndigoClaudia

IndigoEmmy said:


> ATIVELY


EDIT: I looked up the meaning for atively and it also more or less fits but it fit's less than actively.


----------



## Zori

*Mawile*
I guess :P

If Mafia have a single redirector, it was likely on RNP/kokoriko? last night
unless we have some more screwy town roles
which means M&F is more likely than not mafia


----------



## rari_teh

Keldeo said:


> Maybe should we try and swap with someone else who isn't very active? Like I could try to confirm RNP or Otter's role, or something.


That might be a very good idea, but on the other hand we don’t know what happens if we swap bodies with a 3p or mafia? I mean, it’s not you, it’s me, or now it should be you and not me, but


----------



## Ottercopter

Keldeo said:


> @Ottercopter do you know what exactly happens if the mafia kill you? Do you like, exit the game victorious, or do you just die normally, or something else?


If we're considering swapping roles, should I say this? I feel like the ambiguity between the number of times you can repeat the phrase to pass the role combined with not necessarily knowing what will happen if they kill you while you have my power might make it harder for the mafia to decide on a target tonight. Or have I already said too much in the past to make that likely (which I think I did)?



Keldeo said:


> Would appreciate opinions on any of [serimachi / Otter / RNP / Panini / Mist], or the situation where RNP blocked half of the supposed healer clash that killed Eifie.


Dunno if I have anything new to say about this right now. Like, I've wondered if maybe RNP got blocked by a mafia power (surely the group doesn't JUST have a killer if the playerbase is this big?), but I still can't think of a reason to target someone who was basically inactive. Panini's made me think that it coulda been someone familiar with his playstyle, but... by last night, we had multiple revealed doctors that I would at least think could be better targets to block.
Someone mentioned that maybe Eifie dies from targetting a townie. Could she have tried to kill me after all? I don't think it's this, just throwing out possibilities for the sake of it. I am honestly at a loss with how Eifie died because even a non-mafia death should imply that the mafia targeted her in the process since nobody else died, right?


----------



## rari_teh

Yesterday, as I laid in bed, a mad theory assembled in my head. I doubt that it’s true, but the fact that I can’t recall anything that disproves it unnerves me.

Eifie’s MI secret states that there’s an evil doctor, and Emmy’s says that there is a magic doctor and a nanobot doctor who don’t get along, right? Now, hear me out: what if the not getting along isn’t about heal clashing, but about alignment? In that case, the nanobot doctor would be mafia-aligned… and would be the Deadly Doctor, JackPK, who died n0.

Under this hypothesis, Stryke has to be lying. His roleclaim of nanobot doc that all but dismounted his lynchwagon was seen as too bold for a mafia fake claim, but he could have either somehow learned that Jack was the nanobot doctor or, most likely, pieced the information together and deduced that the only person who could counterclaim him was dead as a rock. To seal his reputation as town, he proceeds to feign confusion around Eifie’s death, claiming to have healed her the night before.

What this explains: why Stryke never voted for Mawile (and endorsed an Odie lynch yesterDay)
What this doesn’t explain: how the hell Eifie died even though kokorico healed her

I bet that I’m forgetting something that clearly disproves this crackpot. Am I?

This theory is brought to you by TEDxBedlam.


----------



## rari_teh

Ottercopter said:


> Someone mentioned that maybe Eifie dies from targetting a townie.


I don’t buy this because her flavour is clearly not a suicide. She carries a gun, but dies without a mark? Hm.


----------



## Ottercopter

OH! Something else that just occured to me that might corroborate Rari_teh's theory! Or is at least something to consider. Kyeugh said she knew about the roleblocker blocking her action and even knew what the trope was. Stryke hasn't said anything like that, right?


----------



## rari_teh

Ottercopter said:


> OH! Something else that just occured to me that might corroborate Rari_teh's theory! Or is at least something to consider. Kyeugh said she knew about the roleblocker blocking her action and even knew what the trope was. Stryke hasn't said anything like that, right?


Wel observed! Although I think the ramifications of that would walk less toward _Stryke is mafia and not a doc_ and more toward _either RNP blocked someone else and is just spreading chaos or RNP's block did not go through_


----------



## rari_teh

*Well observed!
Man, I hate touchscreens


----------



## kyeugh

Ottercopter said:


> Kyeugh said she knew about the roleblocker blocking her action and even knew what the trope was.


this is related to my role.  i wouldn't really hold it against stryke.


----------



## qenya

hello I'm back!

I'm very sorry about yesterday - I let my confusion and paranoia get away from me and ended up sowing more confusion. I'll do my best to keep my trains of thought safe and sane going forward.

With that in mind, a few things:



kyeugh said:


> this is related to my role. i wouldn't really hold it against stryke.


If I were to target you N3, would that give us information that might prove/disprove Keldeo's theory about my role being a no-op?



Keldeo said:


> On the topic of his role, if I'm understanding it right, "roleblock someone and then all day abilities are suppressed for the next day phase" feels kind of disconnected as a single role but it seems like kyeugh confirmed his roleblock effect and I have no idea why he'd make up the second part or claim now if he were mafia.


It seems like a reasonably straightforward effect to me. He targets a player each night, and then none of that player's role's abilities are in effect at all until the end of the next day. It's more powerful than a night-only roleblocker, but it doesn't seem terribly complicated? Am I missing something?



mewtini said:


> b) koko hasn't moved eir vote back onto mawile so idrk


is this... the most important thing? I don't see how it could conceivably change the results. But, I mean, sure, if you insist. *Mawile*


----------



## kyeugh

kokorico said:


> If I were to target you N3, would that give us information that might prove/disprove Keldeo's theory about my role being a no-op?


 maybe. did i miss something about your role?


----------



## Keldeo

I know I proposed it but I'm not totally sure if your role not actually doing anything is a plausible theory, kokorico. Probably using "that's kind of mean" as justification for too much setup speculation, but it really would be kind of mean. :P Also there's no harm in putting out ideas even if they end up not really working, right?



rari_teh said:


> Yesterday, as I laid in bed, a mad theory assembled in my head. I doubt that it’s true, but the fact that I can’t recall anything that disproves it unnerves me.


It's not you, it's me... 2!

Purely mechanically, no, I don't think there's anything atm that would disprove this. But you say Stryke would have "pieced the information together" about Jack being the nanobot doctor, but if Jack was not group scum / the nanobot doctor was not known to the mafia, what information do you think that could be? I feel like all of the signs to the mafia then would seem to point to there being two town doctors and Jack being a third party.

Stryke did say that he thought he was on the brink of death when he claimed (though he seemed pretty genuine about the claim, I know that's not super compelling.)

So like the plausible explanations of mafia!Stryke to me are if Stryke was _expecting_ to draw a counterclaim but now he's just rolling with it I guess, or the nanobot doctor is someone else on the mafia and Stryke decided to take their claim. Those seem a little more complicated than Stryke just being the town nanobot doctor, because Stryke's claim was the one that put a hole in Mawile's motion detector claim, although it's possible that the mafia were simply uncoordinated last EOD.

Also, VM said he confirmed that it is healer clash between a magic doctor and a technology doctor, though that doesn't confirm that the technology doctor is town either. Like you said, if RNP's block went through, Stryke's role and alignment aren't material to solving that conflict.


----------



## Keldeo

Oh, kokorico, what I was thinking about RNP's ability is that he blocks daytime abilities globally rather than just his target's daytime abilities. I think his description is a little ambiguous, but it does make more sense under your interpretation.


RedneckPhoenix said:


> It's also worth noting that my ability also freezes *Daytime Abilities* the following day. Terrorists can't explode, gladiators can't challenge, and some other third thing.


----------



## kyeugh

i guess there are daytime abilities huh


----------



## mewtini

kokorico said:


> is this... the most important thing? I don't see how it could conceivably change the results. But, I mean, sure, if you insist. *Mawile*


hey, sorry! that wasn't what i meant haha. mostly i was paranoid of seeming like i was too hardline in defending you


----------



## Keldeo

kyeugh said:


> i guess there are daytime abilities huh


*Disco Inferno* kyeugh

Haha I mean. Maybe Eifie was a dayvig and that explains the lack of her kill? :/


----------



## qenya

kyeugh said:


> did i miss something about your role?


...I don't know? :P

To recap, all I know for sure is that I was initially told I was a VT, told at the start of N2 that I'd become a magic doc, and then (tried to) heal Eifie, which doesn't match up with the fact that she died - at first I thought it was a healer clash, but now RNP claims to have roleblocked the other purported healer. Other than that, everything you're hearing is pure speculation.

I kind of like the "my role is fake, and I'm actually still just a VT" idea in a mechanical sense because it provides a neat explanation for why vig!Eifie apparently didn't kill anyone - her role was fake too. (Obviously I don't much like it on a _personal_ level tho.) But, I mean, there are hundreds of other possibilities if we assume Butterfree wants us to suffer, so maybe it's not likely enough to be worth investigating? idk.


----------



## mewtini

Seshas said:


> If Mafia have a single redirector, it was likely on RNP/kokoriko? last night
> unless we have some more screwy town roles
> which means M&F is more likely than not mafia


the w!mf implications of roleblock/redirect is what i was weakly trying to posit earlier. like otter, though, i'm not really sure why mafia!redirector would target RNP when even town wasn't pinning him as someone particularly active


rari_teh said:


> Under this hypothesis, Stryke has to be lying. His roleclaim of nanobot doc that all but dismounted his lynchwagon was seen as too bold for a mafia fake claim, but he could have either somehow learned that Jack was the nanobot doctor or, most likely, pieced the information together and deduced that the only person who could counterclaim him was dead as a rock. To seal his reputation as town, he proceeds to feign confusion around Eifie’s death, claiming to have healed her the night before.
> 
> What this explains: why Stryke never voted for Mawile (and endorsed an Odie lynch yesterDay)
> What this doesn’t explain: how the hell Eifie died even though kokorico healed her


this does make me wonder and tbh stryke is someone else who i'd want to inspect if i had the ability to (i have also, admittedly, been wary of people claiming publicly-discussed roles) but for whatever reason or another i'm not inclined to distrust stryke yet

not much to say beyond that right now, i think, that hasn't already been said. i've probably said this an irritating number of times but it still bugs me that RNP chose stryke to roleblock lol, like, vendetta or not, it seems decidedly ... nontown to go after a doctorclaim, even if one were skeptical of the claimant? and as i think koko said earlier the assumptions we'd been making about a roleblocker or hyporedirector were ones that presumed they were red roles, so maybe i'm just a bit locked into that paranoia mindset too

so then the theories are that RNP himself got redirected, somehow (which assumes that he's town, that a (red) redirector exists, and that the redirector would even target him) and he roleblocked someone else, leading the healer clash to occur anyway? (is it possible RNP is just lying lol)

sorry if some of this already got solved and i just missed it somehow. or if this doesn't really matter much now. aside from MF (which i think we've all already decided to look into next) this is what's been bugging me lately


----------



## mewtini

mewtini said:


> so then the theories are that RNP himself got redirected, somehow (which assumes that he's town, that a (red) redirector exists, and that the redirector would even target him) and he roleblocked someone else, leading the healer clash to occur anyway? (is it possible RNP is just lying lol)


er, i said "the theories" and then forgot to mention the other theory, i.e. just that the roleblock worked and eifie got killed off another way (basically, mafia hit) despite kokorico healing her unimpeded


----------



## rari_teh

mewtini said:


> not much to say beyond that right now, i think, that hasn't already been said. i've probably said this an irritating number of times but it still bugs me that RNP chose stryke to roleblock lol, like, vendetta or not, it seems decidedly ... nontown to go after a doctorclaim, even if one were skeptical of the claimant? and as i think koko said earlier the assumptions we'd been making about a roleblocker or hyporedirector were ones that presumed they were red roles, so maybe i'm just a bit locked into that paranoia mindset too


Or maybe he’s just pulling our leg. Fits right in with this quote.


mewtini said:


> so then the theories are that RNP himself got redirected, somehow (which assumes that he's town, that a (red) redirector exists, and that the redirector would even target him) and he roleblocked someone else, leading the healer clash to occur anyway?


In that scenario, wouldn’t it be less unlikely that the mafia has a _deflector_ who’d instead target kokorico for some reason?


----------



## RedneckPhoenix

Butterfree literally brought to my attention that I was targetting a doctor claim. 


I knew. It was on purpose.


----------



## mewtini

RedneckPhoenix said:


> I knew. It was on purpose.


i wasn't doubting purposefulness, it's more that it doesn't make sense to me given the rationale that's been said so far ... not trying to be obtuse. i just don't get it



rari_teh said:


> Or maybe he’s just pulling our leg. Fits right in with this quote.


yeah. sorry. i feel like i sound like i'm trying to pile on, i'm just very genuinely ?_? about this
also just to clarify - i believe that he's roleblocker (largely because kyeugh confirmed), my questioning had to do with "was that actually his target"



rari_teh said:


> In that scenario, wouldn’t it be less unlikely that the mafia has a _deflector_ who’d instead target kokorico for some reason?


what do you mean? as in they'd redirect all actions that targeted koko? we haven't heard of any like that yet, afaik


----------



## rari_teh

Keldeo said:


> Maybe Eifie was a dayvig and that explains the lack of her kill? :/


Possibly? I still believe it’s more likely that whatever killed her must’ve come before her night action would take place, though. Eh, it’s not you, it’s me.


----------



## rari_teh

mewtini said:


> what do you mean? as in they'd redirect all actions that targeted koko? we haven't heard of any like that yet, afaik


Yup. I agree it’s bloody unlikely, but still less unlikely than a mafia roleblocker/redirector targetting RNP for some reason


----------



## kyeugh

oh. this just clicked with me, but when vm targetted me last night, i received information that he targetted me with nanomachines, not magic. i don’t know what this means tbh—it precludes healer clash for one thing regardless of blockage, i guess, and also suggests the presence of a redirector or SOMETHING, unless someone is lying. i can’t really work out the mechanics or implications of this. hmmmm.


----------



## Mawile

Don't worry, I have a Post™ coming later today :)


----------



## rari_teh

kyeugh said:


> oh. this just clicked with me, but when vm targetted me last night, i received information that he targetted me with nanomachines, not magic. i don’t know what this means tbh—it precludes healer clash for one thing regardless of blockage, i guess, and also suggests the presence of a redirector or SOMETHING, unless someone is lying. i can’t really work out the mechanics or implications of this. hmmmm.


Could this mean that VM inherited Jack’s role, saw that it was 3p and pretended to inherit ILS’s role because it would be easy to fake being a doctor while being a slightly different type of doctor? (This scenario would only work under the assumption that either Stryke is lying about being the nanobot doctor or he has the same role as Jack instead of The Medic)


----------



## mewtini

kyeugh said:


> this just clicked with me, but when vm targetted me last night, i received information that he targetted me with nanomachines, not magic.


is your awareness of healertype related to role? i.e. can others who've been healed check this against healer claims so far tbh


----------



## Mawile

Mawile said:


> Don't worry, I have a Post™ coming later today :)


Also, it may or may not clear up some stuff! I would post it now, but homework and classes beckon, unfortunately.


----------



## kyeugh

mewtini said:


> is your awareness of healertype related to role? i.e. can others who've been healed check this against healer claims so far tbh


yes to the first question, no to the second
i’m trying to give info w/o role claiming outright but am beginning to wonder how useful that is at this point


----------



## rari_teh

mewtini said:


> is your awareness of healertype related to role? i.e. can others who've been healed check this against healer claims so far tbh


I’m under the assumption that kyeugh only gets to know what targets her at night.


----------



## Keldeo

kyeugh said:


> oh. this just clicked with me, but when vm targetted me last night, i received information that he targetted me with nanomachines, not magic. i don’t know what this means tbh—it precludes healer clash for one thing regardless of blockage, i guess, and also suggests the presence of a redirector or SOMETHING, unless someone is lying. i can’t really work out the mechanics or implications of this. hmmmm.


Wait, did you receive that you were targeted with nanomachines or that VM specifically targeted you with nanomachines? Because the latter goes entirely against his claim of being the magic doctor.


----------



## Keldeo

Also I'm not sure how Butterfree handles action resolution but I think usually if a vig kills someone the same night they're killed, the vig's kill still happens.


----------



## kyeugh

Keldeo said:


> Wait, did you receive that you were targeted with nanomachines or that VM specifically targeted you with nanomachines? Because the latter goes entirely against his claim of being the magic doctor.


 the latter. or, well, i know vm targeted me, and i was targeted with nanomachines—perhaps there’s a role that swaps people’s powers for a night but preserves their targets? i’m not sure what the use in doing it to two doctors would be, though.


----------



## mewtini

kyeugh said:


> i’m trying to give info w/o role claiming outright but am beginning to wonder how useful that is at this point


no it's ok, i just wasn't picking up on things the way that rari did. ty


rari_teh said:


> Could this mean that VM inherited Jack’s role, saw that it was 3p and pretended to inherit ILS’s role because it would be easy to fake being a doctor while being a slightly different type of doctor?


man. i don't get what VM's endgame would be if this were the case. also would be tragic since jack would then indeed be another non-maf loss



Spoiler: unrelated? thoughts that i don't want to forget heh






Keldeo said:


> I'm not entirely sure if Mawile is group mafia based on some of the way he's been acting - him seeming confused by some of the mechanical situations, for instance - and if he isn't, some of the stuff I mention as interactions clearing people aren't valid. But if VM and Negrek are to be believed, Jack was likely already non-group mafia? *A thought that's crossed my mind is maybe none of the mafia know each other, or few do, because if VM only inherits "not mafia" roles, that means Jack was full-blown mafia, and then it would be pretty weird for him to die on night 1.*





Keldeo said:


> Those seem a little more complicated than Stryke just being the town nanobot doctor, because Stryke's claim was the one that put a hole in Mawile's motion detector claim,


under this assumption it seems that the mafia is ... more fragmented than we've been thinking? which would be consistent with some of mawile's behavior (i could believe that he's not group mafia, i just doubted the alien theory) which kind of implied that he wasn't necessarily equally informed with regards to the rest of the mafia

on the other hand that seems kind of wack tbh when we've seen such #wild roles come out of town, but maybe it would explain some of the weird missteps we've seen come out of hypomafia, like the second quote here. it would also maybe mean that mafia must be wildly powerful individually for the sake of balance though? i don't know. just Rambling (especially when i don't really think, yet, that stryke is a wolf ha)


----------



## Keldeo

Ugh, this is so weird. From what I can tell, it means either there's something weird going on with kyeugh's results (or she's lying, but I TR her really strongly) or there was another wrinkle in the targeting last night (because if RNP is to be believed, there shouldn't have been any Nanomachine ability going off last night at all?)... or VM was lying about the role he inherited?

Like I'm struggling to think of some way that VM/Stryke's targets would have been swapped in a way that would tell kyeugh that VM targeted her (intent) but also nanomachines targeted her (actual action)

Negrek claimed ILS was White Mage before VM claimed that he inherited White Mage, so the latter is at least plausible. I guess in that instance, what, was Jack a half-mafia nanomachines Deadly Doctor like rari was saying, VM was a universal backup and so joined the mafia(?) but also claimed for no reason d1, and then Stryke's claim was fake knowing that his teammate VM wouldn't counterclaim him? I haven't really thought this idea through but I don't really get the endgame. And this still doesn't solve Eifie dying - if the nanomachines were on kyeugh, that's another reason the healer clash didn't happen.


----------



## Keldeo

rari_teh said:


> Could this mean that VM inherited Jack’s role, saw that it was 3p and pretended to inherit ILS’s role because it would be easy to fake being a doctor while being a slightly different type of doctor? (This scenario would only work under the assumption that either Stryke is lying about being the nanobot doctor or he has the same role as Jack instead of The Medic)


I guess this works? I don't know. I wanna hear what @Vipera Magnifica and @Stryke have to say about VM apparently having targeted kyeugh with Nanomachines last night?

It's not you, it's me, not vibing at all. @mewtini do you think I should try to swap with someone else besides rari to confirm their role?


----------



## Keldeo

Keldeo said:


> It's not you, it's me, not vibing at all. @mewtini do you think I should try to swap with someone else besides rari to confirm their role?


i guess rari has to give me the role back before I can lol


----------



## Negrek

Quick thought before I'm properly caught up: didn't VM reread his role PM as saying he got his new power at the start of the following night? So it's possible he would have gotten no result the first night, freaked out and made his daypost, reread his PM and gone "oops," and then actually inherited Nanobots + a 3p wincon only starting N1?


----------



## Negrek

After which point I'm not entirely sure why he wouldn't have simply claimed nanobots doctor rather than white mage, since I think we probably would have assumed he'd stayed Town-aligned, but eh.


----------



## Stryke

Keldeo said:


> I guess this works? I don't know. I wanna hear what @Vipera Magnifica and @Stryke have to say about VM apparently having targeted kyeugh with Nanomachines last night?
> 
> It's not you, it's me, not vibing at all. @mewtini do you think I should try to swap with someone else besides rari to confirm their role?


At work rn so thoughts will be brief but I have never targeted kyeugh, and I have no clue where those nanobots came from; as best as I know, I'm the only nanobot doctor (though admittedly I know as much as you guys + what my role PM tells, which isn't much to help figure this out). I guess it's possible there's a 2nd nanobot healer out there, in the vein of how kokorico morphed into a 2nd White Mage out of nowhere, but... FOUR active healers?? Seems a bit much, even for a game like this


----------



## Negrek

Keldeo said:


> Haha I mean. Maybe Eifie was a dayvig and that explains the lack of her kill? :/


The last TVT Mafia did indeed have a dayvig that I was hoping would make a reappearance, since I think the F-bomb killer idea is hilarious. However, I think if Butterfree were going to run another dayvig this game she would have had to change the trigger phrase, or else people would figure out what was up pretty quickly.


----------



## Stryke

Stryke said:


> At work rn so thoughts will be brief but I have never targeted kyeugh, and I have no clue where those nanobots came from; as best as I know, I'm the only nanobot doctor (though admittedly I know as much as you guys + what my role PM tells, which isn't much to help figure this out). I guess it's possible there's a 2nd nanobot healer out there, in the vein of how kokorico morphed into a 2nd White Mage out of nowhere, but... FOUR active healers?? Seems a bit much, even for a game like this


Unless having that many is to justify having a healer clash mechanic... This is so frickin confusing


----------



## mewtini

Keldeo said:


> @mewtini do you think I should try to swap with someone else besides rari to confirm their role?


i haven't really been understanding the bodyswap thing very well; do you know yet how alignment works with the power? what happens if you swap with a wolf?


Negrek said:


> After which point I'm not entirely sure why he wouldn't have simply claimed nanobots doctor rather than white mage, since I think we probably would have assumed he'd stayed Town-aligned, but eh.


this is also what's confusing me. part of why i believed VM was that he expressly claimed white mage, and not nanobots dr, because it seemed like such a small detail that a wolfclaimer wouldn't have even bothered to make (it didn't make him any _less _trustworthy, certainly, assuming you were onboard with him misreading his PM. i know that i was)



Stryke said:


> At work rn so thoughts will be brief but I have never targeted kyeugh, and I have no clue where those nanobots came from


god. wtf


----------



## mewtini

Negrek said:


> Quick thought before I'm properly caught up: didn't VM reread his role PM as saying he got his new power at the start of the following night? So it's possible he would have gotten no result the first night, freaked out and made his daypost, reread his PM and gone "oops," and then actually inherited Nanobots + a 3p wincon only starting N1?


are you proposing that he would've avoided saying so because he was afraid of having to backtrack a second time? i can kind of vibe with that, honestly. it's just hard for me to read him when i've just been writing him off as "100% benevolent, but inactive"


----------



## Negrek

...man, it seems like there has to be at least one mafia member fucking with us in the midst of all this healing confusion, but on the other hand claiming anything around this mess feels like a really ballsy play.


----------



## Negrek

mewtini said:


> are you proposing that he would've avoided saying so because he was afraid of having to backtrack a second time? i can kind of vibe with that, honestly. it's just hard for me to read him when i've just been writing him off as "100% benevolent, but inactive"


Hmm, well, to me it wouldn't have been a backtrack at all if he'd claimed nanobots doc starting Day 2? That's what I was expecting to happen; the white mage claim threw me entirely for a loop. Thus the whole "but why's he white mage if Jack flipped innocent????" The only way VM should have inherited White Mage is if Jack's "not mafia" flip was in some way wrong/didn't quite qualify for VM's powers as recounted. Like, the white mage claim seems _more_ risky than nanobots doc.


----------



## mewtini

mawile your reacts are making me so tense smfh



Negrek said:


> ...man, it seems like there has to be at least one mafia member fucking with us in the midst of all this healing confusion, but on the other hand claiming anything around this mess feels like a really ballsy play.


yeah. i kind of townread ... everyone who's involved right now? but what you said here is also what gave me pause when i read rari's paranoia-take on stryke, because it seems like it was the easiest fakeclaim (and the hardest to disprove, for now) among everyone else's claiming.



Negrek said:


> Hmm, well, to me it wouldn't have been a backtrack at all if he'd claimed nanobots doc starting Day 2? That's what I was expecting to happen; the white mage claim threw me entirely for a loop. Thus the whole "but why's he white mage if Jack flipped innocent????" The only way VM should have inherited White Mage is if Jack's "not mafia" flip was in some way wrong/didn't quite qualify for VM's powers as recounted. Like, the white mage claim seems _more_ risky than nanobots doc.


oh! yeah, agree. (i think i misread your post initially, whoops.)

if VM is lying and he actually inherited jack's role, what would that do? can anyone think of like. any motivation for that?


----------



## Panini

I mean,, I'm tempted to think there must be one amongst Stryke/VM in light of the new development? Otherwise this doesn't make sense? They're claiming functionally the same role power without being the same role: Even if VM really is universal backup and JackPK's role was nanobot doctor, the original trope he would be backing up at that point is Deadly Doctor, whereas I'm pretty sure Stryke claimed the trope he had was The Medic?


----------



## Negrek

> if VM is lying and he actually inherited jack's role, what would that do? can anyone think of like. any motivation for that?


Nothing not predicated on an alignment shift after the start of the game, unfortunately. Like obviously if he started out as mafia everything becomes easy to explain EXCEPT his initial posts, which really would be some masterful planning/acting and a super bold move on the part of the mafia if it were fake. Only other options I'm seeing:

a) Kyeugh's lying
b) some very paranoid blathering about ways the mafia *could* potentially interfere with night information: maybe the mafia is able to do something where they replace some portion of the info received in a system message. Maybe the mafia is able to reverse heal polarity for the night (e.g. change white magic to nanobots or vice versa). Maybe they could doctor the information given to VM so he thinks he received the white mage power but actually got nanobots. The only reason I'm willing to entertain this is the whole "pulling strings" thing, which does suggest some kind of manipulative power. But it's all getting a bit out there and not really profitable to think about, I don't imagine.

....mmm, this is weird, but it also feels a bit like a distraction to me? Like, I may as well go ahead and vote *Mawile* since my inclination to do that hasn't changed this entire day. I feel like at this point, if RNP's lying, kyeugh is also lying and they're mafia together. There are a number of potential investigative targets in the next night for anyone with an inforole, and it may just be that we need to wait and see how things play. I don't think we're really at a point where we can solve the game with the powers we have yet, either. I'm also curious if we're sure we know what happens if a body swapper hits a mafia target? That power is one we might be able to plan what to do with tonight, but other than that I think it's probably best to let people do what they're gonna do wrt selecting targets tonight.


----------



## Panini

Unless you can have the same trope power in two different trope roles but like?!?!?!?


----------



## Negrek

Panini said:


> I mean,, I'm tempted to think there must be one amongst Stryke/VM in light of the new development? Otherwise this doesn't make sense? They're claiming functionally the same role power without being the same role: Even if VM really is universal backup and JackPK's role was nanobot doctor, the original trope he would be backing up at that point is Deadly Doctor, whereas I'm pretty sure Stryke claimed the trope he had was The Medic?


I think the existence of both a role and a power trope implies that it's possible for two different roles to have the same power, so nanobots being given to both "deadly doctor" and "the medic" doesn't actually wig me out, tbh.

But I was suspicious of Stryke before, and that hasn't changed in light of all this, lol.


----------



## Keldeo

Panini said:


> Unless you can have the same trope power in two different trope roles but like?!?!?!?


(have only skimmed everything else on this page) I think this is probably possible, given the Mysterious Informants who all seem to have Expospeak, and kokorico's claim of having the same trope power as me


----------



## Mawile

Ottercopter said:


> Oh, and on the note of Mawile, probably goes without saying, buuuut I don't see much reason to give credence to anything he says


That's a shame. Have a post to consider. You can choose to take it at face value, or assume I'm lying, but things do line up pretty well.



Keldeo said:


> I'm not entirely sure if Mawile is group mafia based on some of the way he's been acting





mewtini said:


> which would be consistent with some of mawile's behavior (i could believe that he's not group mafia, i just doubted the alien theory) which kind of implied that he wasn't necessarily equally informed with regards to the rest of the mafia


Ding ding ding! You are correct :) I can't talk to any of the other members of the mafia, and in fact, I don't even know who they are! I don't even know if they know that I exist, to be honest, with the sheer number of people trying to lynch me today and yesterday :( Talk about being backstabbed again, but at least it's unintentional this time (I hope). 

This is also why I have to post this! It's important for my fellow mafias to know what was up, especially since I can't talk to any of them :(



Keldeo said:


> another weird strings-pulling thing


We'll get into that in a second. Please hold.



Mawile said:


> We also don't technically know that those results weren't tampered with either.





Mawile said:


> This is also assuming that whoever would be able to tamper with results would have the ability to choose whose results to tamper each night.


It's a shame nobody picked up on some of my hints :(



Seshas said:


> I have info that says that mafia are pulling strings behind the curtain
> 
> from which I inferred that Mafia doctoring the flavor is a possibility


Ding ding ding! :)



Negrek said:


> Somewhat related, but I'm curious why @Seshas interpreted "mafia pulling strings behind the scenes" to mean that the mafia were altering daytext somehow. Is there more to it than "pulling strings behind the scenes?" The first thing I think of on hearing that, personally, is that there might be some kind of puppetmaster power on the mafia side, whatever that might mean...


If by "puppetmaster" you mean "someone who has the ability to tamper with any information I please" then yes, there is a puppetmaster! In fact, this is me, but with a couple tweaks:



Negrek said:


> one of those roles that can edit results returned by other inforoles


So here's the deal. I have absolutely messed with some of the information that people have been receiving. Each night, I can choose one person, and one of the following will occur:

- If that person dies, then one piece of information recieved is tampered with. Since I have a slight amount of control over the meta itself, this can (apparently) extend to things like the flavor text about their death, the alignment they flip as, or even one of the abilities that get meta information about the person upon their death. (This is presumably why I can't talk to any of the mafia; it would be so easy to just line up my tampering with their kill every night.) Note that only one of these is randomly selected to be tampered with -- I can't tamper with all of these bits of information at once, and I can't choose which one to tamper with.

- If that person does not die, but has a role that results in them receiving information at any point, then I tamper with the information they receive that night.

- If that person does not fulfill either of the above criteria, then nothing happens, and I become sad. Not in the game, but in real life.

(As an aside, I did target Herbe on n0 and apparently my night action has precedence over Stryke's doctoring, for some reason. So I still don't know what's up with Jack. Also, I'm not going to tell you who I've targeted on the other nights, because it would make things way too obvious. I trust that you can figure out some contradictions in information, and determine whether or not I'm involved.)

I also can't target the same person more than once, probably as a way to balance my existence with cops and whatnot. But since we started out with 25 people, I had a lot of options.



Negrek said:


> I have "meta knowledge," so the answer just comes to me. In practice what happens is that after a player dies, Dragonfree PMs me their name and role. I assume there's no way to tamper with at least the lynch results, because they come immediately after the lynch happens, so there wouldn't be any time for someone else to get a night action in there to mess with things.


You're right that I can't tamper with lynch results (flavor text, alignment flips or your trope results) -- those are all legitimate. Any other information, though, is pretty much fair game! 

If you ask me questions, I will either answer with a response, an actual response, or a happy face. :)


----------



## Keldeo

extremely :woweek:



mewtini said:


> i haven't really been understanding the bodyswap thing very well; do you know yet how alignment works with the power? what happens if you swap with a wolf?


The swap apparently includes alignment and win condition along with the role power. Butterfree couldn't answer me about the ramifications of swapping with a wolf (such as wolfchat access and knowing wolf partners)


----------



## Negrek

oh well

bye mawile


----------



## Mawile

Bye bye! :)


----------



## Keldeo

Negrek said:


> bye mawile


Maw be with ye!


----------



## Negrek

Keldeo said:


> The swap apparently includes alignment and win condition along with the role power. Butterfree couldn't answer me about the ramifications of swapping with a wolf (such as wolfchat access and knowing wolf partners)


Oh, so that's awks. So if someone did swap into a mafia alignment, they would _become_ mafia-aligned and therefore incentivized to obscure what had actually happened? But then does the former mafia suddenly become Town and incentivize to rat out everyone else in that chat? That would certainly be a thing.


----------



## mewtini

omg i'm in MAWILE's signature too? fuck yeah.

gonna read his post in a bit after i get over my starstruckness <3



Negrek said:


> a) Kyeugh's lying


i'm not inclined to think so, not just because i already TR her, but because she's sounded willing to roleclaim thus far


Negrek said:


> ....mmm, this is weird, but it also feels a bit like a distraction to me?


tbh, yeah, though idk if i feel like the distraction is wolfdriven since the vote is already sound
(for the record, if there's a last-minute push to jump off the mawile wagon, i will go stupid and go crazy)


Negrek said:


> I feel like at this point, if RNP's lying, kyeugh is also lying and they're mafia together.


as said above i trust RNP's roleclaim by association w/kyeugh, but still don't know if it's necessarily the case that he targeted stryke? that part is easy enough to lie about (and makes more sense to me than town targeting a doctorclaim since he could then try to draw info out of stryke, but maybe i'm just tunneling hard into this spec)


----------



## Negrek

mewtini said:


> as said above i trust RNP's roleclaim by association w/kyeugh, but still don't know if it's necessarily the case that he targeted stryke? that part is easy enough to lie about (and makes more sense to me than town targeting a doctorclaim since he could then try to draw info out of stryke, but maybe i'm just tunneling hard into this spec)


Mmm, yeah, that's fair. kyeugh's power doesn't indicate alignment iirc, and roleblocker can be either Town or Mafia, easy.


----------



## Keldeo

mewtini, I think roleblocker RNP might target a doctor claim as either alignment, haha.


----------



## Panini

Negrek said:


> I think the existence of both a role and a power trope implies that it's possible for two different roles to have the same power, so nanobots being given to both "deadly doctor" and "the medic" doesn't actually wig me out, tbh.


My assumption was that the reasoning for that was less to do with power overlap and more to do with possible role cop shenanigans and the like.


Keldeo said:


> (have only skimmed everything else on this page) I think this is probably possible, given the Mysterious Informants who all seem to have Expospeak, and kokorico's claim of having the same trope power as me


The key difference here for is that both these groups of people have the same trope claiming the same power name (so far at least)
Mysterious Informant --> Exospeak
Non Action Guy --> What Kind of Lame Power Is Heart Anyway?

I guess I'm coming from a less familiar w/ these setups POV, so maybe I'm just wrong in making that assumption? But I can't say it makes me feel any more comfortable about it.


----------



## mewtini

Keldeo said:


> mewtini, I think roleblocker RNP might target a doctor claim as either alignment, haha.


yeah, i think i'm overly obsessed with that. it just Feels Weird to me


----------



## Stryke

Forgot to vote. In a while, *Mawile*


----------



## kyeugh

mewtini said:


> yeah, i think i'm overly obsessed with that. it just Feels Weird to me


 it is weird! but not impossible, or even unlikely.

i don’t really understand the idea of me and rnp being w/w tbh.


----------



## Negrek

Panini said:


> My assumption was that the reasoning for that was less to do with power overlap and more to do with possible role cop shenanigans and the like.


That's fair, having two slots there allows for more diversity in roles that target one or the other.


----------



## mewtini

kyeugh said:


> i don’t really understand the idea of me and rnp being w/w tbh.


idrk either. i think it's just the concept of people being able to corroborate each other's claims ig



Mawile said:


> (This is presumably why I can't talk to any of the mafia; it would be so easy to just line up my tampering with their kill every night.)


i know that mawile is probably not high on the trustworthiness list but a lot of his post does check out, i don't know how everyone else feels about it tho


Keldeo said:


> extremely :woweek:


tldr.


----------



## kyeugh

mewtini said:


> idrk either. i think it's just the concept of people being able to corroborate each other's claims ig


yeah, i guess. i could just as easily do it as town regardless of whether rnp is lying about who he targetted last night though, so i don’t really get that.


----------



## Stryke

Hey @kokorico : heads or tails?


----------



## Keldeo

My takeaways from Mawile's wall:

Agree with mewtini that him saying he's non-group mafia tracks well enough if you believe his roleclaim.

n0: He says he targeted Herbe, so _presumably_ all other information received on this night was legitimate, including Jack's flip as "not mafia" and Negrek receiving that result as Deadly Doctor.

Some speculation on targets possibly relevant to resolving current mechanical situations:

n1 target: It could be Boquise or Negrek, hence "A God Am I" not seeming to match up with any reasonable town role - Mawile would also have had incentive to target Negrek because she was a claimed info role. Is probably not rari given that Rari's result seemed legit. It is possible that it was MF, resulting in her "mafia" result on Negrek, but then Mawile would have had to target MF also on n2 if MF is indeed a sane cop. No idea if VM's receiving the proper role would count as "information" per se, but then maybe it's possible it got warped from Deadly Doctor using Nanomachines to White Mage using magic healing?? Probably not kyeugh since she apparently received the correct info about RNP's role. 

n2 target: If it's rari_teh, rari's result on MF would be wrong. If it's Skylar, could explain the discrepancy of her receiving that VM used Nanomachines, which is otherwise unresolved. If it's kokorico, maybe kokorico got the wrong role power-up or something (but if e got that in the middle of the night, which I assume from eir posts about it, it doesn't make sense that it would be a result of )

Am I missing something... I feel like this claim possibly clears up the Skylar situation but not whatever happened with Jack (which Mawile did say he didn't know about.)


----------



## Negrek

I see no reason to assume that anything in Mawile's post is truthful and think he has every reason to try to mislead us/cause as much chaos as possible, so I don't see any benefit engaging with it, tbh


----------



## mewtini

Keldeo said:


> Agree with mewtini that him saying he's non-group mafia tracks well enough if you believe his roleclaim.


honestly it tracks fine even if you don't believe the roleclaim. he's been hinting at being outgroup for a while now, and not in a way that sounded purely mindfucky imo:


Spoiler: quotes






Mawile said:


> Just cause I don't know doesn't necessarily mean that nobody else knew.





Mawile said:


> If they're not aware that I've been outed by this point, even with just how I'm acting, I don't really know what to say.





Mawile said:


> I mean, maybe some people can inherit a mafia killing ability. I can't :(





if i'm reading mawile's wall correctly though, it's also probably important to note going forward that, if true (BIG if true) this only explains _one_ discrepancy per night. (not aimed at keldeo, just in general - especially as we get tangled up in the roleblock/redirector business)


----------



## Mawile

mewtini said:


> if i'm reading mawile's wall correctly though, it's also probably important to note going forward that, if true (BIG if true) this only explains _one_ discrepancy per night.


Correct!


----------



## Keldeo

Negrek said:


> I see no reason to assume that anything in Mawile's post is truthful and think he has every reason to try to mislead us/cause as much chaos as possible, so I don't see any benefit engaging with it, tbh


Yeah, that makes sense. I do think that it's possible that if Mawile is outgroup, he is being at least somewhat truthful in order to inform his fellow mafia members of what he can do. 

If Mawile isn't telling the truth, we're still back at Skylar's result not making much sense with everything else wrt VM's original claim.


----------



## mewtini

i do agree that this probably shouldn't be a main thing and definitely shouldn't distract from other spec, but idk if i'm on-board with totally ignoring it when this is the closest thing we've got to understanding seshas' MI tidbit

he also would have to inform the rest of the mafia somehow; if he can't communicate with them directly, he still might be incentivized to give them _some_ info about his role that they wouldn't otherwise have


----------



## mewtini

oops, and then keldeo said the exact same thing, sorry


----------



## mewtini

also. maybe this is too Radical given that we were just talking about distrusting mawile, but couldn't this extra townlock seshas? if there was any remaining doubt - seeing as we'll probably all have to reevaluate reads in the near future


----------



## Negrek

mewtini said:


> i do agree that this probably shouldn't be a main thing and definitely shouldn't distract from other spec, but idk if i'm on-board with totally ignoring it when this is the closest thing we've got to understanding seshas' MI tidbit
> 
> he also would have to inform the rest of the mafia somehow; if he can't communicate with them directly, he still might be incentivized to give them _some_ info about his role that they wouldn't otherwise have


I don't know that it's the closest we've gotten to understanding Seshas' MI tidbit, which is vague and could mean any number of things. It's easy to play into some of the guesses people have been making with complete lies when the claim is essentially "I can fuck with the night phase in nearly unlimited ways."

Even if he isn't part of mafiachat, I think that generally any _true_ information he'd be presenting here would be of more use to the innocent faction than mafia. Like, if there are any in-group mafia among the set of doctor claims, they already know who those are. Do they particularly care whether VM uses white magic or nanobots? Probably not. It's much more important to Town, who doesn't already know who's lying. So, like, maybe he is trying to help out the mafia by clearing up some contradictions? But if so I think that's a bad way to go about it.

If we were going to get into the thick of it I'd be reading it more as _what does this post seem to *want* me to believe, and if that's not true, what else might be_?


----------



## Keldeo

I guess the effect of "what the post wants us to believe, if we take him at his word" is, in this short term, diffusing the situation regarding Skylar's result on VM (although Mawile said that he wanted to make this post earlier); possibly casting doubt on or accounting for strange results from you, rari, or MF; generally spreading paranoia about night results and what is possible. 

He also specifically mentioned that he couldn't tamper with lynch results and information from that, which could be WIFOMed, but I kind of doubt that any of the information we got from lynches was inaccurate, given that ILS claimed to be a magic doctor before he died and Odie was inaccurate.


----------



## mewtini

Negrek said:


> I don't know that it's the closest we've gotten to understanding Seshas' MI tidbit, which is vague and could mean any number of things.


i disagree with this, but purely because i don't think anything else has touched on that piece of information whatsoever

other than that i agree, i'm just really attached to the idea of taking whatever we can get i think and the fact that some of it sounds plausible is making me question myself a lot. like the things he specifically pointed out were off-limits for him are things that we already were suspecting had to be true, like your trope turnover, but ... god, sorry, i know that's not the point


----------



## qenya

Stryke said:


> Hey @kokorico : heads or tails?


Dude do you even have to ask? Just look at my fabulous tail-feathers.

I like mewtini's interpretation of outgroup!Mawile being likely regardless of whether his roleclaim is in any way truthful. In fact, I'm starting to question whether _any_ of the mafia know who each other are, tbh - we were already specing about JackPK being outgroup and the rest of the mafia do seem curiously uncoordinated/inoperative, like I mentioned earlier. I wonder if it might be worth re-reading over the course of the night to try to find any posts that seem like mafia trying to identify themselves to each other. (There's no urgency to solve this before EOD, right?)

Also can I just clarify briefly: "Skylar" = kyeugh?


----------



## mewtini

kokorico said:


> "Skylar" = kyeugh?


yep!



kokorico said:


> Just look at my fabulous tail-feathers.


lmfao



kokorico said:


> In fact, I'm starting to question whether _any_ of the mafia know who each other are, tbh


i was wondering about this too, but it's also possible that they do imo? taking mawile at face value could imply that he just is someone who's too overpowered to communicate w the rest of the faction


----------



## mewtini

kokorico said:


> I wonder if it might be worth re-reading over the course of the night to try to find any posts that seem like mafia trying to identify themselves to each other. (There's no urgency to solve this before EOD, right?)


of course i hit post too soon as always. this is something i was also planning on doing, honestly, though nothing really comes to mind now

on that note though. is there anything we're interesting in knowing before EoD ... ?


----------



## Mawile

Yeah, anyone have any questions for me before I die?


----------



## mewtini

mewtini said:


> is there anything we're interesting in knowing before EoD ... ?


"interested in," even

oh. we still don't have any true theories on how eifie died, do we :^|



Mawile said:


> Yeah, anyone have any questions for me before I die?


are we still homies ;(


----------



## Mawile

mewtini said:


> are we still homies ;(


yea


----------



## Butterfree

Spoiler: Full vote history



*Mist1422* votes *Mawile* (#2933)
*Herbe* votes *M&F* (#2935)
*rari_teh* votes *Mawile* (#2936)
*kyeugh* votes *Mawile* (#2939)
*Seshas* votes *M&F* (#3094)
*IndigoEmmy* votes *Mawile* (#3196)
*Mr. Ultracool* votes *Mawile* (#3198)
*Vipera Magnifica* votes *Mawile* (#3212)
*IndigoEmmy* votes *Mawile* (#3225)
*IndigoEmmy* votes *Mawile* (#3247)
*Mr. Ultracool* votes *M&F* (#3260)
*Ottercopter* votes *Mawile* (#3276)
*Herbe* unvotes (#3299)
*Mr. Ultracool* votes *Mawile* (#3301)
*kokorico* votes *Mawile* (#3306)
*Panini* votes *Mawile* (#3307)
*mewtini* votes *Mawile* (#3325)
*kokorico* unvotes (#3410)
*Keldeo* votes *Mawile* (#3472)
*Seshas* votes *Mawile* (#3482)
*kokorico* votes *Mawile* (#3491)
*Negrek* votes *Mawile* (#3531)
*Stryke* votes *Mawile* (#3546)





Spoiler: Active votes



*IndigoEmmy* votes *Mawile* (#3247)
*Keldeo* votes *Mawile* (#3472)
*Mist1422* votes *Mawile* (#2933)
*Mr. Ultracool* votes *Mawile* (#3301)
*Negrek* votes *Mawile* (#3531)
*Ottercopter* votes *Mawile* (#3276)
*Panini* votes *Mawile* (#3307)
*Seshas* votes *Mawile* (#3482)
*Stryke* votes *Mawile* (#3546)
*Vipera Magnifica* votes *Mawile* (#3212)
*kokorico* votes *Mawile* (#3491)
*kyeugh* votes *Mawile* (#2939)
*mewtini* votes *Mawile* (#3325)
*rari_teh* votes *Mawile* (#2936)



Vote counts:
*Mawile* (14) (IndigoEmmy, Keldeo, Mist1422, Mr. Ultracool, Negrek, Ottercopter, Panini, Seshas, Stryke, Vipera Magnifica, kokorico, kyeugh, mewtini, rari_teh)
No vote (11) (Mawile, Herbe, Flora, M&F, JackPK, I liek Squirtles, serimachi, RedneckPhoenix, Odie_Pie, Eifie, Boquise)


----------



## qenya

Mawile better _not_ be an alien, after all this...



Mawile said:


> Yeah, anyone have any questions for me before I die?


Your bank details? Just wanting to check against VM's info, nothing shady c:


----------



## Keldeo

mewtini said:


> on that note though. is there anything we're interesting in knowing before EoD ... ?


Answers about everything that's still confusing :V

If Rari is around, who do you (general you) think would have the most utility to swap with? I could try to confirm someone as town.


----------



## Mawile

kokorico said:


> Mawile better _not_ be an alien, after all this...


:)


----------



## mewtini

Keldeo said:


> Answers about everything that's still confusing :V
> 
> If Rari is around, who do you (general you) think would have the most utility to swap with? I could try to confirm someone as town.


stryke or MF? or an inactive who we can't reliably get info/interaction reads from


----------



## Negrek

Since it sounds like the mechanics of the swap are mad fucked if you swap with someone of a different alignment, perhaps someone you're pretty sure is Town and simply want to confirm?


----------



## mewtini

Negrek said:


> Since it sounds like the mechanics of the swap are mad fucked if you swap with someone of a different alignment


only one way to find out right ;)

just kidding. that's a fair suggestion as well tbh.


----------



## Butterfree

In case anyone's still confused about the time zone thing, EoD in ~22 minutes.


----------



## Keldeo

Yeah, if the swap is actually absolute, technically the best thing to do would be to swap with someone we think is mafia, who can then out all of their partners the next day. So I assume there's a safeguard on some level that makes that non-gamebreaking.

@rari_teh are you around? Any thoughts on the best swap?


----------



## qenya

Keldeo said:


> Yeah, if the swap is actually absolute, technically the best thing to do would be to swap with someone we think is mafia, who can then out all of their partners the next day. So I assume there's a safeguard on some level that makes that non-gamebreaking.


Come to think of it, this is another point in favour of the scumchat-doesn't-exist idea.


----------



## Negrek

Mmmm, I think if scumchat didn't exist the game would be heavily, *heavily* skewed town. Having information about alignments is the only leg up the mafia have in normal play. Yes, maybe Butterfree could get around that to some extent by giving the mafia truly absurd powers, but I don't think we've seen good evidence for that yet.

If like twelve people die tomorrow night, though, I could be open to revising this statement. :P


----------



## Keldeo

Yeah, I was thinking, given a typical mafia setup, maybe the swap would just fail if we tried to swap with an in-group mafia, or something else weird would happen.

I can't think of anything that urgently needs to be resolved before EOD. There's the few mechanical loose threads of Jack's role/VM's inheritance, Rari/MF's checks, Eifie's death, and kyeugh's result, which maybe could be cleared up further by future claims, as well as just normal reads that we can keep trucking with tomorrow.


----------



## Keldeo

Spoiler



@Eifie for you


----------



## mewtini

day 3 goodnight to everyone tbh. good work y'all


----------



## mewtini

but an especially loving goodnight to everyone who's signature-quoted me ;)


----------



## Mawile

Bye bye everyone! :)


----------



## Keldeo

Mawile said:


> Bye bye everyone! :)


It's not you, it's -


----------



## mewtini

Mawile said:


> Bye bye everyone! :)


May God Have Mercy On Your Soul tbh


----------



## Butterfree

The day is confusing for entirely different reasons than the previous ones. Everyone's in agreement for once, literally everyone, but also everyone's in agreement that trying to suss out exactly what happened on any of the previous nights is giving them a headache. *Mawile* confesses to being a member of the nefarious mafia, and with that of course all they can do is string him up while he monologues about all the manipulation he's been engaged in.

As his body hangs in the wind, a suspicious business card drifts out of his pocket.

*Mawile is dead. He was mafia.

Please send in your night actions. The night will end on April 25th, 0:00 UTC (imagine you're in Iceland, having the party of your life at my house, except not because social distancing).*

Final vote count:
*Mawile* (14) (IndigoEmmy, Keldeo, Mist1422, Mr. Ultracool, Negrek, Ottercopter, Panini, Seshas, Stryke, Vipera Ma
gnifica, kokorico, kyeugh, mewtini, rari_teh)
No vote (11) (Mawile, Herbe, Flora, M&F, JackPK, I liek Squirtles, serimachi, RedneckPhoenix, Odie_Pie, Eifie, Boquise)



Spoiler: Full vote history



*Mist1422* votes *Mawile* (#2933)
*Herbe* votes *M&F* (#2935)
*rari_teh* votes *Mawile* (#2936)
*kyeugh* votes *Mawile* (#2939)
*Seshas* votes *M&F* (#3094)
*IndigoEmmy* votes *Mawile* (#3196)
*Mr. Ultracool* votes *Mawile* (#3198)
*Vipera Magnifica* votes *Mawile* (#3212)
*IndigoEmmy* votes *Mawile* (#3225)
*IndigoEmmy* votes *Mawile* (#3247)
*Mr. Ultracool* votes *M&F* (#3260)
*Ottercopter* votes *Mawile* (#3276)
*Herbe* unvotes (#3299)
*Mr. Ultracool* votes *Mawile* (#3301)
*kokorico* votes *Mawile* (#3306)
*Panini* votes *Mawile* (#3307)
*mewtini* votes *Mawile* (#3325)
*kokorico* unvotes (#3410)
*Keldeo* votes *Mawile* (#3472)
*Seshas* votes *Mawile* (#3482)
*kokorico* votes *Mawile* (#3491)
*Negrek* votes *Mawile* (#3531)
*Stryke* votes *Mawile* (#3546)





Spoiler: Active votes



*IndigoEmmy* votes *Mawile* (#3247)
*Keldeo* votes *Mawile* (#3472)
*Mist1422* votes *Mawile* (#2933)
*Mr. Ultracool* votes *Mawile* (#3301)
*Negrek* votes *Mawile* (#3531)
*Ottercopter* votes *Mawile* (#3276)
*Panini* votes *Mawile* (#3307)
*Seshas* votes *Mawile* (#3482)
*Stryke* votes *Mawile* (#3546)
*Vipera Magnifica* votes *Mawile* (#3212)
*kokorico* votes *Mawile* (#3491)
*kyeugh* votes *Mawile* (#2939)
*mewtini* votes *Mawile* (#3325)
*rari_teh* votes *Mawile* (#2936)


----------



## Butterfree

As the inhabitants of Troperville gather the next morning, they find *Negrek* dead in the town square, reaching a feeble hand towards *Mawile*'s body as it still hangs in the wind, her sunglasses lying broken on the ground. Yet again, there are no marks on her body.

In her pockets they discover nothing suspicious, only a journal full of lists of narrative tropes. The final page says Too Cool to Live in large lettering, with a little red arrow pointing to the word "me" and a frowny face.

*Negrek is dead. She was not mafia.

You have 72 hours to discuss. The day will end on April 28th, 0:00 UTC (as if you're in Iceland, where the cool people are).*



Spoiler: Pings



@Negrek
@Keldeo
@JackPK
@Flora
@I liek Squirtles
@kyeugh
@Ottercopter
@M&F
@Mist1422
@Eifie
@RedneckPhoenix
@Panini
@kokorico
@Boquise
@Seshas
@Stryke
@mewtini
@Mr. Ultracool
@IndigoEmmy
@rari_teh
@Mawile
@Odie_Pie
@serimachi
@Herbe
@Vipera Magnifica


----------



## mewtini

god damn it


----------



## mewtini

Butterfree said:


> reaching a feeble hand towards *Mawile*'s body


anyone wanna flavor-read the hell out of this lmao


----------



## rari_teh

holy shit D:


----------



## rari_teh

mewtini said:


> anyone wanna flavor-read the hell out of this lmao


In my understanding, she died just before reading his trope :(


----------



## IndigoClaudia

oh hey it's mafia time again.


----------



## mewtini

yeah i literally made my post and went "oh WAIT"

bruh rip :| tbh i feel like there's something to be gleaned from this protective kill..... what was mawile's trope that they only now targeted her when she's been able to read tropes this whole time


----------



## IndigoClaudia

ALSO NOOO NEGRECK DIED NOW


----------



## mewtini

i'm clearly kind of unfocused rn lol but i was rereading the last like 1k posts a bit ago and have some qs, i think, once conversation gets underway


----------



## IndigoClaudia

so now we don't know what mawile is. Great. :C


----------



## mewtini

mewtini said:


> what was mawile's trope that they only now targeted her when she's been able to read tropes this whole time


actually i guess maybe they decided it wasn't worth it until a mafia member got lynched? still i kind of thought she would get hit earlier (especially since boq was an early kill, idk)


----------



## IndigoClaudia

IndigoEmmy said:


> oh hey it's mafia time again.


I keep forgetting we're on Icelandic time here.  so that threw me off(ia). See look i made a bad pun.


----------



## qenya

Well crap. I guess this does at least preclude some of the "Negrek's been lying to us the whole time" theories.



Butterfree said:


> her sunglasses


jumps out at me as a piece of flavour that's not accounted for?


----------



## mewtini

kokorico said:


> jumps out at me as a piece of flavour that's not accounted for?


i think this is just for her trope (too cool to live)


----------



## rari_teh

kokorico said:


> jumps out at me as a piece of flavour that's not accounted for?


Meh, don’t think so


----------



## Vipera Magnifica

well damn there goes one of our best sources of information :(

I don't have any new information to share today but I didn't get a chance to respond to the information that kyeugh shared about me supposedly healing with nanobots, so thoughts on that incoming


----------



## rari_teh

Before anything else I gotta apologize for vanishing during EoD… In my head, we still had one more day :(


----------



## qenya

mewtini said:


> i think this is just for her trope (too cool to live)


Oh, yeah, maybe. Also glasses in general kinda gives off a vibe of "seeing things" (i.e. her role). Like Eifie's gun... assuming that wasn't one of Mawile's fake clues.

Anyway, as for me, the coinflip decided against kyeugh, so I tried healing Keldeo last night. He seems to have survived, which I guess is an improvement on my previous mortality rate. But I didn't actually get around to re-reading (despite suggesting it earlier) so I have no other information yet.


----------



## rari_teh

@Herbe Could you tell us what happened to you after Mawile died?


----------



## kyeugh

mewtini said:


> anyone wanna flavor-read the hell out of this lmao


i think it means mawile was mafia


----------



## rari_teh

kyeugh said:


> i think it means mawile was mafia


----------



## kyeugh

ngl i forgot the game started again today and just came on here to look at whatever new posts had cropped up throughout the day.  fucked up that i have to come back to this.  between n*grek, my ex-wife, the tenant from hell, and general chumpfuckery, this has been a cromulent fuckcrustable of a day.  tommy need drinky.


----------



## mewtini

kyeugh said:


> i think it means mawile was mafia


thank skylar, fo r da Insight,



mewtini said:


> i was rereading the last like 1k posts a bit ago and have some qs, i think, once conversation gets underway


i got impatient, it's not a long post anyway. just throwing down things i noticed (admittedly i was mostly reading back for MF)

MF/RNP are the two (non-inactive) players who didn't vote for mawile, despite being active in the thread after the red read/preliminary discussion had happened
in 2311, MF said:



M&F said:


> cor blimey I keep forgetting I have a _clear_ on Mawile
> 
> gonna have to counterbus *Stryke* for now; post of more substance possibly next up


interested in hearing more about the 'clear' haha....

i used to have a third thing but it was just me being ?? about the skylar healing drama, which it sounds like VM is already about to talk about, so that's all for now lol


----------



## Stryke

kyeugh said:


> i think it means mawile was mafia


Pretty bold claim... Got any proof?


----------



## Stryke

Also I did the coinflip while I was in the parking lot of a Dairy Queen Grill & Chill and it landed in kokoricos favor, so that's who I healed. That's all I got though


----------



## kyeugh

Stryke said:


> Pretty bold claim... Got any proof?


fine.  i didn’t want to claim this early, but i guess i have no choice.  i’m a cop.  i investigated mawile every night and he flipped red every time.  i just wasn’t sure what to make of the results, so i didn’t want to report them.


----------



## Butterfree

To be clear: tropes used and linked in flavor text are for flavor; they do not indicate people's actual role or power tropes.


----------



## kyeugh

i see!  i guess the takeaway here is, negrek is really cool.


----------



## kyeugh

mewtini said:


> interested in hearing more about the 'clear' haha....


pretty sure this was from her cop results right


----------



## mewtini

kyeugh said:


> pretty sure this was from her cop results right


mawile came up red, like everyone else, according to MF's roleclaim. i'm still interested in hearing more about it, because when she claimed 1k posts later, she said she was still wrestling with the sanity of her results


----------



## mewtini

unless i'm missing something ... ?


----------



## rari_teh

mewtini said:


> unless i'm missing something ... ?


IIRC you ain’t missin’ nothin’. She claims to have inferred that Mawile was not mafia because she got a red on Keldeo as well and her trope flavour heavily hinted that she isn’t the sanest of cops.
The red I got on her on n2 could mean that a) she’s also a miller, which, in Keldeo’s words, “would be mean”, but not impossible imo; b) Mawile fucked around with my results (although I believe he’s more likely to have targeted kyeugh, hence the nanobots message); or c) she’s mafia and fakeclaiming a stupid easy role.


----------



## kyeugh

my assumption was that she was assuming she was an insane cop and trusted that (and therefore mawile’s innocence) over rari’s report.  i didn’t really find it that odd tbh
wasn’t she absent for like a major chunk (if not all) of eod. or like.  the last 24 hours even.  that’s how i remember it but can’t be assed checking
rari’s red report on her is certainly still, a thing, but i’m not all that alarmed by her vote


----------



## mewtini

rari_teh said:


> She claims to have inferred that Mawile was not mafia because she got a red on Keldeo as well and her trope flavour heavily hinted that she isn’t the sanest of cops.


yeah, i was comparing her posts with her claim, but i think it's kind of weird that she would have felt confident enough to posit that _any_ of her reads were clear approaching EoD when there was good reason to suspect they weren't. (assuming that her claim is real)



rari_teh said:


> Mawile fucked around with my results (although I believe he’s more likely to have targeted kyeugh, hence the nanobots message)


agree, just waiting for VM to post



rari_teh said:


> she’s mafia and fakeclaiming a stupid easy role.


i don't have the post # on-hand right now but this is what i guessed at a while back and i think it's a large possibility



kyeugh said:


> my assumption was that she was assuming she was an insane cop and trusted that (and therefore mawile’s innocence) over rari’s report. i didn’t really find it that odd tbh


ftr i wasn't super weirded out by her vote, it just seems kinda ?! since in her roleclaim she mentions that she had little confidence in her reads, because it was three reds in a row. you're right though that she was absent during EoD

i'm admittedly just going in on this one lead from rari's report (especially because it ended up being ... accurate) but i think it makes more sense if i read it from w!mf than not


----------



## kyeugh

kyeugh said:


> ngl i forgot the game started again today and just came on here to look at whatever new posts had cropped up throughout the day.  fucked up that i have to come back to this.  between n*grek, my ex-wife, the tenant from hell, and general chumpfuckery, this has been a cromulent fuckcrustable of a day.  tommy need drinky.


 i dont want people to think i actually say this shit.  it’s a copypasta ok.  just for the record.  ffull disclosure. my day was fine


----------



## mewtini

mewtini said:


> (especially because it ended up being ... accurate)


er, meant to specify accurate bc mawile (and it looks like rari's n0 read was also more or less confirmed to be legit)


----------



## Butterfree

kyeugh said:


> i see!  i guess the takeaway here is, negrek is really cool.


[Caiaphas voice] One thing I'll say for her: Negrek is cool


----------



## rari_teh

Talking about cop reads, I think pretty much nobody else knows who between @Keldeo and I is currently the cop, no?


----------



## Vipera Magnifica

Vipera Magnifica said:


> I don't have any new information to share today but I didn't get a chance to respond to the information that kyeugh shared about me supposedly healing with nanobots, so thoughts on that incoming


So I find this very intriguing... I only have the ability to heal with magic, so I've been wondering why kyeugh would get that information, if she's telling the truth.

Really, the only two options I see are: 1. kyeugh is mafia and is lying about it, or 2. someone anti-town messed with her results to spread misinformation.

Whether it was kyeugh or someone else causing it, I guess their goal would be to make me look less trustworthy to the town, and it's a clever bit of misinformation because it plays off of the possibility that I _could_ have inherited JackPK's role and (if my own words are to be believed) am mafia-aligned. But that doesn't really make sense, because if I hypothetically inherited Deadly Doctor and it was a mafia role and I was lying about it due to a change in alignment, that would contradict what I said at the beginning of the game when I was town-aligned (about inheriting the role of the first non-mafia player to die), and I would have no reason to lie about it then.

So maybe... the goal was to make me look third-party? I guess... that would somewhat help the mafia in just causing general chaos, but I don't really fully understand the thought process behind it. I'm struggling to think of what kind of win condition a third-party doctor would even have. I suppose Deadly Doctor sounds kinda serial killer-y, but it should be pretty clear that's not my role, given if I was, a lot more people would be dead, and kyeugh especially. It's possible that maybe whoever messed with the results didn't actually have complete control over how they were affected? It seems unlikely that Mawile was telling the truth with that last-minute claim but maybe there is some truth in it, and he told us just for the enjoyment of seeing it confuse us. If it was Mawile, maybe he just picks a target (kyeugh) and all of their results become unreliable for that night? I really don't know the mechanism behind which that information was altered, but with the number of town power roles (and especially inforoles) that have been claimed so far, I would assume the mafia have some way of distorting information to balance that out.

On the subject of Mawile, I have been thinking about something. It seems Mawile was most likely not part of the mafia in-group, and was working alone (being paired with Herbe was coincidental, and not part of Mawile's role). From what I remember of past games, these lost mafia roles would typically be told the name of one person in the mafia in-group, but not be able to communicate with them. I don't exactly know how Butterfree handles it (could someone find an example in one of the game's she's hosted?), but if that's the case, if Mawile was playing smart he'd probably want to subtly let that contact know he was on their side, to avoid getting killed by the mafia. I think we should look for any behavior that seems... odd... or anything that could be a mafia dog whistle. Maybe Mawile said something that would seem unimportant to us but would turn heads in the mafia chat. I'm not sure what kind of information Mawile would have had that could achieve such a thing, but maybe we could find something by looking at his interactions with other players? It's possible he might even have just liked/reacted to a bunch of his contact's posts in an unusual way to get their attention and hope that the other person caught on. It might not yield us any kind of useful information but it's at least something to look for

anyway that's my braindump for now


----------



## RedneckPhoenix

I blocked Stryke again cuz I'm still suspicious of him. 

Also it's funny.


----------



## mewtini

RedneckPhoenix said:


> I blocked Stryke again cuz I'm still suspicious of him.
> 
> Also it's funny.


i still don't get what this is supposed to accomplish when there are still mafia kills happening. it's not like blocking stryke puts a stop to that, and i feel like it would make it even harder to read him when he's not taking any actions?


----------



## Stryke

RedneckPhoenix said:


> I blocked Stryke again cuz I'm still suspicious of him.
> 
> Also it's funny.


----------



## rari_teh

If Mawile truly wasn’t in-group, his claim might as well be legit. Maybe the mafia didn’t have a bloody clue on what Seshas’s MI piece was about, and he decided to post it in broad words so that his fellows knew what they were losing that day.

Or maybe he was in-group and his claim was a pound o’ baloney.


----------



## mewtini

Vipera Magnifica said:


> 2. someone anti-town messed with her results to spread misinformation.


i'm currently assuming, keeping mawile's "claim" in mind, that the single piece of info edited that night was the type of heal? aside from this i agree with the wall of text i think, thanks for posting that tbh

VM do you have any thoughts on anyone/anything else?



rari_teh said:


> Maybe the mafia didn’t have a bloody clue on what Seshas’s MI piece was about,


yeah this is still my thought. i know i should probably be taking mawile's claim with a grain of salt, but it just seems to have so much potential in terms of detangling things ...


----------



## Vipera Magnifica

RedneckPhoenix said:


> I blocked Stryke again cuz I'm still suspicious of him.
> 
> Also it's funny.


maybe like... _don't_ do that?


----------



## RedneckPhoenix

Stryke acted almost exactly like this in another game where he was mafia.

The only way I'd take orders from you is if my job applications at Subway went through.


----------



## Ottercopter

People are still dying with Stryke blocked. None of the circumstances in deaths have changed so far. At the very least, blocking Stryke isn't stopping townies dying, so you may as well go for someone else.

(Catching up on the thread, bear with me)


----------



## mewtini

RedneckPhoenix said:


> Stryke acted almost exactly like this in another game where he was mafia.


but doesn't blocking him make it impossible to even compare night action claims

can you please elaborate more on what your goal/rationale is? people are still getting mafiakilled with stryke blocked, apparently, and there are other possible targets in the game


----------



## rari_teh

mewtini said:


> i know i should probably be taking mawile's claim with a grain of salt, but it just seems to have so much potential in terms of detangling things ...


eh, I think that the inherent detanglement potential in any OP role can very easily lead to a path paved with didits that leads nowhere tbh


----------



## mewtini

rari_teh said:


> eh, I think that the inherent detanglement potential in any OP role can very easily lead to a path paved with didits that leads nowhere tbh


tbh it's that combined with the fact that i still think he's out-group

i am trying my best to not let this get in the way of other reads rn. i don't think it matters a ton just yet (as far as like, my Mental Canon of the game) but for especially weird discrepancies it does explain stuff like the VM nanobot heal, which doesn't even make sense with other roles? idrk


----------



## rari_teh

RedneckPhoenix said:


> The only way I'd take orders from you is if my job applications at Subway went through.


I’m still tutting at your decision, but this line was pretty fucking funny ngl


----------



## qenya

rari_teh said:


> Talking about cop reads, I think pretty much nobody else knows who between @Keldeo and I is currently the cop, no?


...not sure if I should explain in detail because Eifie warned strongly against speculating about who the cop is, but all the sensible guesses I can think of for the bodyswapper role PM's phrasing result in one person being the cop. The two of you should probably have added some extra obfuscation yesterday (like swapping with a third person, or swapping an even number of times).



Butterfree said:


> as if you're in Iceland, where the cool people are


also just noticed the wordplay here and am extremely impressed


----------



## Vipera Magnifica

mewtini said:


> i'm currently assuming, keeping mawile's "claim" in mind, that the single piece of info edited that night was the type of heal? aside from this i agree with the wall of text i think, thanks for posting that tbh


it wouldn't make sense unless for mawile (or whoever did it) to be editing that info specifically because they would have to know i was targeting kyeugh in the first place. so it's possible they don't have full control over what info gets edited? i don't think mawile would be telling the exact truth about how his role works.



mewtini said:


> VM do you have any thoughts on anyone/anything else?


I don't have the greatest reads on players since there's a lot of people here I don't know and all but one or two people seem genuinely townish to me

I would like to hear from M&F though because it definitely sounds like the chopping block is calling her name.


----------



## Vipera Magnifica

^ that unless was a typo


----------



## mewtini

Vipera Magnifica said:


> it wouldn't make sense unless for mawile (or whoever did it) to be editing that info specifically because they would have to know i was targeting kyeugh in the first place. so it's possible they don't have full control over what info gets edited? i don't think mawile would be telling the exact truth about how his role works.


in re: the last sentence, i agree. i forgot about kyeugh being a special case, though. hmm.


----------



## Vipera Magnifica

Unrelated but people in this game have been using a lot of terminology that I certainly never saw back in the heyday of this forum and it's throwing me off a bit. I feel like everyone went and got a degree in Mafiology and learned a lot of esoteric jargon.

like what exactly is w/w. i assume you don't all mean a romantic relationship between two women (also known as Wife In Front of Me or WIFOM)


----------



## Butterfree

w/w is short for "wolf/wolf" i.e. the idea that the two players being discussed are both mafia.


----------



## mewtini

Vipera Magnifica said:


> I feel like everyone went and got a degree in Mafiology and learned a lot of esoteric jargon.


yeah i'm 100% learning as we go tbh ;(

also don't feel like going back a page and quoting, but i do think MF should be talked about sooner or later


----------



## Herbe

rari_teh said:


> @Herbe Could you tell us what happened to you after Mawile died?


I'm a bitter widow(er) now. My goal is to survive to the end of the game, out of pure spite, to outlive the rest of the people that may die. It's not a "win" condition per se - I've already lost, it's just a new goal. No new powers, either. I'm just sitting, grumpy.

And yes, I can confirm that Mawile was out-group mafia. He had no access to any hypothetical mafia chat. If he knew or figured out who any others were, he didn't tell me.


----------



## Vipera Magnifica

Butterfree said:


> w/w is short for "wolf/wolf" i.e. the idea that the two players being discussed are both mafia.


----------



## mewtini

Herbe said:


> I'm just sitting, grumpy.


me_irl


----------



## Novae

Good evening

I magically have managed to restore some amount of energy towards this game pfft just kidding I'm trying not to fall asleep on a couch rn


----------



## RedneckPhoenix

anyways. maybe i'll target someone else tonight. maybe not. i live on my own terms


----------



## mewtini

RedneckPhoenix said:


> anyways. maybe i'll target someone else tonight. maybe not. i live on my own terms


i'm still kinda wondering about stryke rationale :')


----------



## kyeugh

kokorico said:


> ...not sure if I should explain in detail because Eifie warned strongly against speculating about who the cop is, but all the sensible guesses I can think of for the bodyswapper role PM's phrasing result in one person being the cop. The two of you should probably have added some extra obfuscation yesterday (like swapping with a third person, or swapping an even number of times).


minor thing but i don’t really think eifie was saying it’s bad to ever speculate who the cop is, just that speculating based on cop cover kind of defeats the purpose of cop cover. multiple people have claimed as cop now so i don’t think it really applies.

i thought rnp meant that he blocked stryke using the block feature on the forums and couldn’t figure out why people cared so much (“people are still dying even if you block him” ????) and then i remembered his role.


----------



## kyeugh

i like vm’s longpost, it feels real and searching even though it doesn’t really get anywhere. maybe that’s towny? on my first skim of it i thought that at the end he was trying to beat around the bush of suggesting that the “kyeugh is innocent” message was modified by mawile and thus incriminated me/served as a dogwhistle, but i think it’s because i saw my name a lot in that post and was reading it defensively. after a couple more read throughs, i think i like his thought process overall, although i don’t expect we’ll get anything worthwhile from reading into mawile’s likes.

thinking about the “kyeugh is innocent” post in conjunction with my info about vm using nanomachines, i wonder if there is indeed some kind of unconventional redirector at play here. maybe the same force that altered my info about vm caused the message he got about me? i guess it doesn’t really matter.


----------



## mewtini

kyeugh said:


> i like vm’s longpost, it feels real and searching even though it doesn’t really get anywhere. maybe that’s towny?


yeah. i think, particularly since vm has only intermittently posted, it felt real especially with respect to the information that he's been exposed to (and it doesn't feel like he's holding back from admitting anything or w/e, either). i also thought it would've been really easy for him to write it as "wtf no i didn't lie wtf!!!"/that's kind of what i expected when he first announced he was Writing a Post, but it didn't come off defensive either imo

i think there has to be some weird redirector role? i'm just very ?_? because stuff like the vm-info-distortion (by 'stuff like', i literally just mean that one thing) seems very like ... localized to phrasing, and not to function, which is what's skeeving me out. also i acknowledge that this is hypocritical because i def accidentally fed into a lot of speculation about it, but i suppose the exact method doesn't matter so much as just being able to cut through it



Vipera Magnifica said:


> if Mawile was playing smart he'd probably want to subtly let that contact know he was on their side, to avoid getting killed by the mafia. I think we should look for any behavior that seems... odd... or anything that could be a mafia dog whistle.


i will say that i halfheartedly tried reading back to look for stuff like this before this day phase started, but it just reminded me that part of why i felt so weird about mawile to begin with was that it felt like he never quite engaged with other people inthread. lol. maybe that's also why i was so easily convinced of the outgroup theory


----------



## Ottercopter

Unlikely, but no harm in speculating... What if a redirector was trying to create a healer clash and swapped the doctors around? Ugh, I'm gonna have to look back at the thread and see if anyone mentioned possible targets that night. God, I have no idea what to make of this.



rari_teh said:


> Talking about cop reads, I think pretty much nobody else knows who between @Keldeo and I is currently the cop, no?


Nope! And you probably shouldn't say until you have something urgent either because once you do, the mafia can just go back and count the number of times the phrase was exchanged to get a better sense of how it works. Unless something drastic comes up, we should already have our lynch for today. You were right about Mawile, so *MF* is the next logical target (which people have already pointed out), right?

Negrek mentioned to focus on what Mawile's "confession" would want to make us believe, and I guess the most obvious possibility would be to curb further speculation on what "The mafia have someone pulling the strings behind the curtains" means? Or like Keldeo said, make us question results. With Negrek dead, there's no way to verify Mawile's role, so there's even less reason to trust his claim.

Gonna try and reread stuff and post more coherently tomorrow. I'll probably be absent most of midday (there a PoGo event from 11-2 EST and then I think mum and I are going to the park?), but I should be back in the evening!


----------



## mewtini

Ottercopter said:


> What if a redirector was trying to create a healer clash and swapped the doctors around? Ugh, I'm gonna have to look back at the thread and see if anyone mentioned possible targets that night.


afaik it was left up to a coinflip again?


Stryke said:


> As for who I'm healing, coinflip between two healers sounds good to me


this still doesn't explain why VM was specifically said to use nanotech to heal, though. obviously i don't have the pm that kyeugh received but i maintain (mawile claim or not) that from what we've heard it seems more minute than a redirect? since it maintained VM's name, ... ugh. i dunno



Ottercopter said:


> Unless something drastic comes up, we should already have our lynch for today. You were right about Mawile, so *MF* is the next logical target (which people have already pointed out), right?


tbh i was waiting for someone else to vote so it wouldn't seem like i was jumping the gun, so ty. yeah. i'm under the impression that *M&F *was singled out as the next target during yesterDay, as well, but i can't tell if this is still a shared sentiment? idk. ive got weird feelings here, like, not even just because rari's mawile read was correct (though it definitely didn't hurt)



Ottercopter said:


> With Negrek dead, there's no way to verify Mawile's role, so there's even less reason to trust his claim.


:(


----------



## Herbe

Gotta admit, occam's razor suggests *MF* is the next logical target. Although if she wanted to defend herself, I'd hear her out.


----------



## qenya

kyeugh said:


> minor thing but i don’t really think eifie was saying it’s bad to ever speculate who the cop is, just that speculating based on cop cover kind of defeats the purpose of cop cover. multiple people have claimed as cop now so i don’t think it really applies.


well ok then

"only the first swap during the day counts" -> Keldeo is now the cop
"only the last swap during the day counts" -> Keldeo is now the cop
"every swap during the day counts" -> Keldeo is now the cop

that's why I healed him

only way I can see for rari to be the cop is for the condition to be something ridiculously obscure like "swaps only work if performed during hours that are also fibonacci numbers" (disclaimer: I haven't actually gone back to check, it is possible that that condition also results in Keldeo being the cop)



Ottercopter said:


> Unlikely, but no harm in speculating... What if a redirector was trying to create a healer clash and swapped the doctors around? Ugh, I'm gonna have to look back at the thread and see if anyone mentioned possible targets that night. God, I have no idea what to make of this.


That's what I was thinking too at first, but (a) VM didn't announce in advance that he was going to heal kyeugh, and (b) in order to cause a clash they would have needed to swap Stryke with somone _other_ than VM who was _also_ targeting kyeugh - it seems that kyeugh's role, although slightly ~mysterious~, gives her info about who targeted her, so we would probably have heard about it already if that last bit was possible.

other misc thoughts:

VM's longpost comes off as towny to me too, and his logic checks out - on D1, he hadn't inherited his role yet and would have no reason to lie about it
still believe Mawile was outgroup. My interpretation of his ISO is very similar to mewtini's - he hasn't interacted with anyone much except for memery. One thing I did notice is that he tried to FoS Seshas on D1 for having "vague" MI info compared to IndigoEmmy's, but that might just be because said MI info directly related to his role and he wanted to discredit it
would also like to hear from M&F given that the only options we have are (a) his role is useless (b) he's mafia or (c) mawilefuckery, but I'm disinclined on principle to vote when there are >60 hours left in the day


----------



## Mr. Ultracool

kokorico said:


> "only the first swap during the day counts" -> Keldeo is now the cop
> "only the last swap during the day counts" -> Keldeo is now the cop
> "every swap during the day counts" -> Keldeo is now the cop
> 
> that's why I healed him
> 
> only way I can see for rari to be the cop is for the condition to be something ridiculously obscure like "swaps only work if performed during hours that are also fibonacci numbers" (disclaimer: I haven't actually gone back to check, it is possible that that condition also results in Keldeo being the cop)


Should we really be speculating on who our cop is? Imo we should probably try not to make it more obvious for the maf than IT already is. Then again, as soon as the swapper swaps it will be obvious anyways, so the real question ist whether Keldeo/rari-teh should perform their action today at all or wait to do so...


----------



## Mr. Ultracool

Stryke said:


> Hey kokorico: heads or tails?


Also, @Stryke , what was that about? It sounds suspiciously like a confirmation phrase for an action in the vein of "it's not me, it's you" and it came relatively unprompted. Was there a reason for that or an insider joke that I'm missing?


----------



## Stryke

Mr. Ultracool said:


> Also, @Stryke , what was that about? It sounds suspiciously like a confirmation phrase for an action in the vein of "it's not me, it's you" and it came relatively unprompted. Was there a reason for that or an insider joke that I'm missing?


lol i knew someone was gonna ask about that. flipped a coin for who i should heal last night. it was between kokorico and VM, and since VM wasnt around at the time, i asked koko to call which side of the coin e wanted. probably wasnt necessary, but i wanted to do it anyway


----------



## Mr. Ultracool

Oh, thanks- that explains a lot about that. Tbh, what with the weird roles that have already been claimed, we should probably be more suspicious about weird comments. Who knows what might be an ability trigger?


----------



## kyeugh

i’m kind of meh about lynching mf. even if she flips scum i don’t think it really helps us much as far as finding the other wolves go. i’d be just as comfortable doing it later tbh. i sort of want to go after someone we can pull information out of. i guess i can go reread mawile’s iso later.


----------



## mewtini

kyeugh said:


> i’m kind of meh about lynching mf. even if she flips scum i don’t think it really helps us much as far as finding the other wolves go. i’d be just as comfortable doing it later tbh.


i don't really get this tbh? what other leads do we have (let alone reads that are ... any more confirmed/likely to be scum than MF via copread)


----------



## Keldeo

I don't think there's much to be gained by hiding who's the cop after kokorico laid out why I definitely was the one who got the cop ability yesterday.  I inspected Panini as town last night.

I think MF is pretty likely to flip mafia given rari's result and her radio silence starting yesterday. I agree that shrugging and lynching her today will limit the amount of information we can get out of the day, but I think we're gonna have to do it eventually given that there doesn't seem to be a vig, so why not today?

I don't think kyeugh is mafia with VM being town because she brought up an iffy result relating to VM but she's like, not really pushing VM for it? She's just talking about it, and I think that doesn't feel very agenda-ed. I have a similar but less strong town feeling with VM's post. Because I also don't see the agenda in altering kyeugh's result specifically that way (and when she hadn't claimed anything to do with the ability with the type of results that she had), I think it's possible that it could have been some sort of random or target-role-dependent info alteration, similar to Mawile's claim. 

There was something (besides his claim) that made me think that Mawile was more likely out-group, but I don't remember right now, hehe. Also, assuming that Mawile was out-group and MF is in-group (which might be a large assumption), I want to look into who jumped on him after rari's result - with those assumptions, from an in-group mafia's point of view, Mawile could have been a townie who rari got a faulty result on for some reason, so lynching him would be way better than lynching MF. 

@Herbe, can you tell us more about how your role worked? I'm just curious.


----------



## rari_teh

Keldeo said:


> I don't think there's much to be gained by hiding who's the cop after kokorico laid out why I definitely was the one who got the cop ability yesterday.


It’s not you, it’s me!

Here we go to a merry round of kartoshka.


----------



## Keldeo

rari_teh said:


> Here we go to a merry round of kartoshka.


No, it's not you, it's me! What do you think of, instead of swapping the cop ability around, swapping with someone else where there are questions about their role, or some uncertainty regarding their alignment, to attempt to confirm more people as town or clear certain things up? Like... maybe VM, or Ottercopter, or RNP or Mist?

Tangentially related, as the game goes on, I think it's important that we track when and why various people were confirmed town in case there is some mafia or third-party recruitment ability, or a godfather ability.


----------



## mewtini

Keldeo said:


> I think MF is pretty likely to flip mafia given rari's result and her radio silence starting yesterday. I agree that shrugging and lynching her today will limit the amount of information we can get out of the day, but I think we're gonna have to do it eventually given that there doesn't seem to be a vig, so why not today?


agree, this is what i was feebly trying to say. also i see no reason why we have to just shrug while doing it! we can do it and also put on our deerstalkers, idk, but i think it's the farthest from a possible mislynch we can get right now



Keldeo said:


> with those assumptions, from an in-group mafia's point of view, Mawile could have been a townie who rari got a faulty result on for some reason, so lynching him would be way better than lynching MF.


yeah. i keep thinking about this too, so i reread with that in mind.

rari claimed in 2931. mist/herbe were the first two to jump on a wagon (mist voted mawile in 2933, herbe went for MF two posts afterward for obvious reasons) but tbh i don't know how to read mist and i still think herbe has been acting very in-character for a lover role who'd been covering for knowing their partner's alignment. skylar voted mawile in 2939, and then there was a lull for a while

it's sort of hard to read though, i think, for multiple reasons. mawile already had suspicion thrown on him, so any townie had incentive to vote for him (the only thing getting in the way was herbe, i think, so some others - like me - did wait for some time to vote). on the other hand, as you said, it was an incredibly easy bandwagon for an in-group wolf to jump on

my main question is - do you think that we could glean anything from finding different treatments of MF/mawile, assuming that one is in-group and the other isn't? the cop confirmation is the same, and it isn't as if i think MF was anyone's strongly-established townread ... at least that's where my head is at


----------



## mewtini

mewtini said:


> the only thing getting in the way was herbe, i think, so some others - like me - did wait for some time to vote


slight amendment, there was also the conflicting strykeclaim that made things a bit confusing (at least for me lol)


----------



## Keldeo

mewtini said:


> my main question is - do you think that we could glean anything from finding different treatments of MF/mawile, assuming that one is in-group and the other isn't? the cop confirmation is the same, and it isn't as if i think MF was anyone's strongly-established townread ... at least that's where my head is at


No, yeah, I agree that like, voting Mawile over MF early yesterday doesn't make someone mafia because from a town POV there was not a ton in favor of one or the other. I think if MF is in-group mafia (big if, and big if true) there's definitely stuff that can be gained from analyzing her interactions and pushes.


----------



## Ottercopter

Keldeo said:


> No, it's not you, it's me! What do you think of, instead of swapping the cop ability around, swapping with someone else where there are questions about their role, or some uncertainty regarding their alignment, to attempt to confirm more people as town or clear certain things up? Like... maybe VM, or Ottercopter, or RNP or Mist?


I don't think RNP is a good idea. If he's just blocking Stryke for his own amusement and not interested in anything we have to say, there's no guarantee he'll swap the power back later or not just vig someone on a whim.
 If it gets passed to one of us, do we just keep the chain going, or pass it back to you? Just in case.


----------



## mewtini

Keldeo said:


> I think if MF is in-group mafia (big if, and big if true) there's definitely stuff that can be gained from analyzing her interactions and pushes.


i guess i'm thinking that we can maybe begin to try to determine this part. i still really think mawile was out-group, but that doesn't mean the rest of the mafia is as isolated. ofc later on MF's copclaim comes into play, but i think strong favoritism could be an indicator one way or another? for the most part i know that i saw them as about equal, it's just that mawile was the one who'd been discussed


----------



## Herbe

Keldeo said:


> @Herbe, can you tell us more about how your role worked? I'm just curious.


Past tense? Well, the honeypot thing wasn't a lie. It said that my first visitor would get stuck with me, although it did not specify what would happen if multiple people visited me, and I figured it was a fair assumption that the first in order would be the one that got stuck. It could have been randomized, though, but it doesn't really matter now I guess.

So for the person that got stuck with me, they kept their primary win condition, but their secondary win condition would be staying alive with me till the end. So if I got lynched while Mawile was still alive, he wouldn't have instantly lost. My job was to keep my lover alive, and it was unclear what would happen to me if I failed. (I think it was kept intentionally vague, but I don't know the reason. Maybe to scare me more into really trying to save my lover?) But the "you will lose" part was very clear.

Now, post-"lose," at least in the flavor, I'm grumpy, bitter, and prone to lashing out. I don't know if there are power side effects that come with this, but I guess I should expect the unexpected? Either way, I'm just trying to survive as long as possible now.


----------



## Keldeo

Ottercopter said:


> If it gets passed to one of us, do we just keep the chain going, or pass it back to you? Just in case.


I think that's something that could be discussed if this way of using the role seems worthwhile to folks. If we keep the chain going, each day we can essentially gain information about one new role / alignment, unless the ability is blocked somehow. If we pass it among people who have already held the power, we can obfuscate the location of important* roles, and also don't run into the issue of not knowing what happens if we swap with a mafia. imo the former is a bit more valuable, although a lot of the people we might want to look into that way aren't too active. 

* idk how important cop is, really, because godfather and miller roles might exist


----------



## Ottercopter

Herbe said:


> But the "you will lose" part was very clear.
> 
> Now, post-"lose," at least in the flavor, I'm grumpy, bitter, and prone to lashing out. I don't know if there are power side effects that come with this, but I guess I should expect the unexpected? Either way, I'm just trying to survive as long as possible now.


Third party party


----------



## Keldeo

Herbe said:


> So for the person that got stuck with me, they kept their primary win condition, but their secondary win condition would be staying alive with me till the end. So if I got lynched while Mawile was still alive, he wouldn't have instantly lost. My job was to keep my lover alive, and it was unclear what would happen to me if I failed. (I think it was kept intentionally vague, but I don't know the reason. Maybe to scare me more into really trying to save my lover?) But the "you will lose" part was very clear.


Thanks! What do you mean by primary and secondary win conditions? Like, if Mawile got to the end along with you and the mafia won, he would double win? Or if you were both alive when all the mafia killing roles were dead, he'd still be able to win?


----------



## Keldeo

Also, how much of the information exchange process from your role that you described at EOD2 was truthful and how much was you trying to save him?


----------



## rari_teh

Ottercopter said:


> If it gets passed to one of us, do we just keep the chain going, or pass it back to you? Just in case.


Please keep the chain going! It’s not you, it’s me, good sport!


----------



## Herbe

Keldeo said:


> Thanks! What do you mean by primary and secondary win conditions? Like, if Mawile got to the end along with you and the mafia won, he would double win? Or if you were both alive when all the mafia killing roles were dead, he'd still be able to win?


Not the double win thing, lmao. It was just like a secondary goal; the second scenario is how I interpreted it.


Keldeo said:


> Also, how much of the information exchange process from your role that you described at EOD2 was truthful and how much was you trying to save him?


I'll have to go back and look/report back on that, but I'll admit a fair amount was me trying to save him. But I didn't lie about everything. I'll go back and check :>


----------



## rari_teh

Herbe said:


> So basically at the end of N0 Bfree told me that I found a catch! And that his alignment was town. Private comm was opened, and we talked about our roles from there.


When you caught Mawile, did Butterfree tell you his alignment or was it him? If the latter, did he tell you the truth?


----------



## Ottercopter

rari_teh said:


> Please keep the chain going! It’s not you, it’s me, good sport!


Oh god oh god oh god oh god oh god uhhhhhhh crap, this is so much pressure. Sorry, I'm so scared of screwing this up somehow. Is there any harm in passing this VM, or would you like me to stick to one of you two? Hoping there's no harm in at least asking.


----------



## Herbe

Herbe said:


> Yes, he's town, I got his role alignment and he told me his role


^this was liesville. Butterfree didn't tell me anything except that I found a catch. Mawile told me he was outgroup mafia, and it would have had to been a loooooong con for him to lie about that. We did get out of thread communication though.


Herbe said:


> So basically at the end of N0 Bfree told me that I found a catch! And that his alignment was town. Private comm was opened, and we talked about our roles from there.


Here's another relevant one from EOD2. Butterfree told me about the catch, but didn't say the alignment thing. And we did get private communication, and we did talk about our roles. It wasn't all lies in the name of self-preservation...


----------



## Ottercopter

Or I guess you can just post a shrug emoji or something if any of those are fine.


----------



## Keldeo

It's okay, we don't have to decide what to do with the role just this minute! 

TV Tropes Mafia Revival, Day 11. Every post ends with "it's not you, it's me." The mafia and Butterfree are maintaining separate spreadsheets to track each swap. No one knows who has the body snatcher role, or even if it's still alive. It's not you, it's me - I hope we can still be friends.


----------



## rari_teh

Ottercopter said:


> Oh god oh god oh god oh god oh god uhhhhhhh crap, this is so much pressure. Sorry, I'm so scared of screwing this up somehow. Is there any harm in passing this VM, or would you like me to stick to one of you two? Hoping there's no harm in at least asking.


At the moment, the swapper is not me, it’s you. So yeah, swap your heart’s content lol


----------



## kyeugh

Keldeo said:


> I think MF is pretty likely to flip mafia given rari's result and her radio silence starting yesterday. I agree that shrugging and lynching her today will limit the amount of information we can get out of the day, but I think we're gonna have to do it eventually given that there doesn't seem to be a vig, so why not today?


no particular reason why not to today. mostly i felt the thread was kind of dead and i thought it was because everyone was just kind of eh ok we’ll lynch mf good job folks. but if conversation can carry on anyway that’s fine.

ngl i’m slightly checked out of this. i feel like my grip on what’s going on is pretty loose. it seems kind of late in the game for my feelings about everything to be so wishywashy and tenuous but i can’t really make myself feel strongly about anything.


----------



## rari_teh

kyeugh said:


> ngl i’m slightly checked out of this. i feel like my grip on what’s going on is pretty loose. it seems kind of late in the game for my feelings about everything to be so wishywashy and tenuous but i can’t really make myself feel strongly about anything.


I gotta admit I am feeling a little bit like this as well. I don’t think lynching *M&F* is a surefire way to kill mafia, but we don’t have any other leads >at all<


----------



## mewtini

rari_teh said:


> I don’t think lynching *M&F* is a surefire way to kill mafia, but we don’t have any other leads >at all<


i mean there's not a reason that spec can't carry on about and beyond MF, but i'm wondering why you doubt your read? (unless it's just an observance of the plain fact that nothing is really ever surefire, ha)


----------



## kyeugh

i think they’re saying that lynching mf doesn’t really lead to any insights that will help us scumhunt further.


----------



## kyeugh

unless she flips green! then we lynch rari


----------



## Ottercopter

...I think i've already proven pretty succinctly that I'm terrible at tone reading, but on the topic of suspects, though, Kyeugh, did your info about RNP confirm that he was town aligned, or just that he's a roleblocker?


----------



## mewtini

Ottercopter said:


> ...I think i've already proven pretty succinctly that I'm terrible at tone reading, but on the topic of suspects, though, Kyeugh, did your info about RNP confirm that he was town aligned, or just that he's a roleblocker?


i don't think we know.



mewtini said:


> a follow-up q, but feel free to avoid it if you wish: is the redirector not mafia-aligned then? i'd been operating under that assumption





kyeugh said:


> idk, wouldn’t rule it out.


----------



## rari_teh

mewtini said:


> i mean there's not a reason that spec can't carry on about and beyond MF, but i'm wondering why you doubt your read? (unless it's just an observance of the plain fact that nothing is really ever surefire, ha)


It’s pretty much an observance of the plain fact that nothing is really ever surefire lol

I mean, it’s _possible_ that she isn’t lying. I don’t think that it would be too farfetched to say that her role makes her flip mafia… On the other hand, she’s literally the only person we have anything against besides a hunch.


----------



## mewtini

rari_teh said:


> I don’t think that it would be too farfetched to say that her role makes her flip mafia


like the paranoid cop role? that role would be town if true afaik ... i'm just not super inclined to believe the claim



rari_teh said:


> On the other hand, she’s literally the only person we have anything against besides a hunch.


on the other hand, this


----------



## Panini

Yo, I'm away for the weekend again so I'm phone only once more until the last sort of bit of the phase.

Just sort of rough thoughts:
- I think the VM response is like, fine? I don't think I'm as swayed about it as other people have been expressing because I feel like it,, meanders a bit in terms of the speculation so I'm not quite digesting it but I don't think it's a particularly unnatural reaction either so like? Eh
@Vipera Magnifica if it's safe for you to say so, who'd you heal last night?  
- Re: Mawile stuff, I don't know how to feel so much about the info manipulation side of things (or rather, I think the concept of the role is plausible purely because of Seshas and it seems likely there is messing around with _some_ aspect of the result tangle we've been in but I do pause at believing the exact mechanics as written for the same reasons as Negrek expressed)
However, I do kind of buy the out-group thing based largely on the closeness of the D2 wagons. I can't check the timestamps on mobile but as far as I can remember Mawile was leading/close to next competing wagon for pretty much all of that and maybe even up to where EOD should have been so I'm doubtful that part would have been a lie. 
- obligatory dual thank you keldeo for the clear/sorry that you wasted a clear on me
Lastly:
- just gonna park on *M&F* for now- I agree completely agree that we should still hear them out but. It's the second red check from a proven cop so, just gonna throw my hat in there with everyone else saying "well, probably" and see if I should be worrying later?


----------



## Keldeo

Panini said:


> - I think the VM response is like, fine? I don't think I'm as swayed about it as other people have been expressing because I feel like it,, meanders a bit in terms of the speculation so I'm not quite digesting it but I don't think it's a particularly unnatural reaction either so like? Eh


What do you think about any reasons that VM might lie about inheriting ILS's role (as opposed to, I guess, Jack's?) I guess I just don't understand why he would lie about that, although I also can't come up with an explanation for why he wouldn't have inherited Jack's role unless Jack was, like, a "terrorist"/"out-group mafia who flips town" role, because we presumably had an out-group mafia in Mawile who flipped mafia. 

That's one of the two mechanical issues that have come up wrt VM. But because ILS claimed to be White Mage/magic healing before he died, if VM is telling the truth about inheriting iLS's role, I'm chalking it up to an info-scrambling role that VM apparently targeted kyeugh with nanomachines.


----------



## Keldeo

Also @Panini, who are your next targets assuming we lynch MF today? Do you have any less-consensus clears or thoughts?

Pulled some MF quotes. Reading her posts feels a bit like jumping the gun because yeah, she could be a miller or rari could've gotten redirected, but...



M&F said:


> wrt ottercopter: since this is technically outlaw out-of-thread communication I suppose I should share with the class that, on D1, I prodded her with the fact that we were rolling and she was pretty surprised; I suppose such adds credence to her not having so much as read her role PM until crunchtime. that said, I highly doubt she's a third-party who wins by being lynched, because, panic or no, there's not a way in hell she wouldn't have kept it quiet if she'd read that; she's not new to mafia. what I do buy is that she either a) does have a convoluted but town-helpful role, in which case attempting to parse it properly in the middle of The Postening would have been genuinely headbreaking; or b) is mafia and took her time claiming because she was fishing for a quick defense, which she now has to find some way to make sound plausible.
> in the former case, I do believe ottercopter really should share with the class; if activating her useful power depends on town, we can arrange for it, and if it depends on mafia, that's most likely what they're already expecting, and chances of them taking the bait, least of all on a player who's likely to get vigged on her own, are infinitesimal. in the latter case... well, in the latter case, bye otter~
> (ftr, I also do not think that lynching ottercopter today would be risky at all. I do think it'd be a waste of a lynch though. vig can vig, unless it's taking vig suspiciously long to vig)


Does anyone have opinions about what this means for Otter if MF is mafia?

Other than that, mewtini and Seshas look vaguely good for pushing on MF at various points in time (mewtini more since the push started with agreeing with Boq around EOD1), she talks about Otter a decent amount but idk what to make of it, and she posits serimachi as a useful inactive lynch. 


Spoiler






M&F said:


> fwiw I'm still considering it a possibility that VM was lying about the backup thing and the neglected extra detail was a fabrication; mafiosi pull that pretty often with their fakeclaims. I'm not lending that theory any further credence at the moment than that it's technically possible, but it sure is


This is tempered by it being _super_ early game, but she shaded ILS in a similar "it sure is" way

Posts by people pushing her:


mewtini said:


> god sorry i feel like i keep just grilling. it's not that i think you spent hours it's just that i would think a stereotypical town would devote like 5 of those 10 minutes to just catch up or say _something_ else
> 
> and honestly maybe i'm just really scared of mf because i know shes a veteran player and i'm swayed by eif





Seshas said:


> nice
> *M&F*
> we should lynch this first, since there are no strings attached


Some posts about inactives: 


M&F said:


> [to Ottercopter]
> yeah, that all tracks and also validates my speculation that your PM was rough to read in a hurry; call this 1% speculation if you will, though, I still consider it entirely possible that, as scum, you figured a sincere-sounding surrender would sound more genuine than an attempt to remain useful. regardless, though, I'd still rather the vig take care of this one -- if for no other reason than mercy -- and continue on the chase for new information





M&F said:


> anyway, RNP feels very much like a dead end; vig fodder for after Ottercopter, really. microanalysis of blatant mockery isn't very likely to yield us much of anything new





M&F said:


> seri is increasingly striking me as an useful inactive lynch piñata, yeah; if we drive that train in and the result we get is mafia, that's potentially be a solid source of raised eyebrows; it'd clear Eifie more solidly for one, and it'd possibly turn that strange bit of speculation into a lead





and tbh, I liked Otter being confused about what to do with the swapping power, earlier, but I'm not entirely sure why that's towny :P


----------



## Keldeo

@Seshas, how good is your read on Mist?

Open question: Does anyone think there is someone suspicious that the thread as a whole is largely townreading or not suspecting? 

I feel like almost everyone medium-to-high-activity has something going for them, but I doubt that the remaining mafia would just be like, 4 low-activity people and MF. So I think I must be wrongfully townreading someone, but who?


----------



## Mr. Ultracool

Keldeo said:


> Does anyone have opinions about what this means for Otter if MF is mafia?


Well, we could probably check Ottercopter pretty easily if we swapped with him tonight whilst lynching M&F. That way, Ottercopter would either be town after the swap with the swapper being maf (perhaps outgroup?), the swap would not go through because Otter is an ingroup maf (the PM for the Bodysnatcher role mentioned that some roles were unswappable, so I'd assume that  this means that the swapper can't get into the maf chat like that) or both Otter and the swapper turn out to be town. Either way, it would tell us a great deal more about the role of Ottercopter.


----------



## Mr. Ultracool

@rari_teh , would you be on board with my proposal of swapping with @Ottercopter ?


----------



## Zori

*M&F*
I don't have that much of a recent meta on Mist since all of the games I played with them in the past few months they were hosting


----------



## Zori

iirc they tend to post but not really be in thread as scum but that might change based on site meta


----------



## Zori

@:Keldeo's most recent post
M&F Mafia probably means Ottercopter Town because of how he's sort of pushing her to claim and pushing vigges to shoot her, without being blatant about it


----------



## Zori

Seshas said:


> @:Keldeo's most recent post
> M&F Mafia probably means Ottercopter Town because of how he's sort of pushing her to claim and pushing vigges to shoot her, without being blatant about it


*second most recent post


----------



## mewtini

Keldeo said:


> Does anyone think there is someone suspicious that the thread as a whole is largely townreading or not suspecting?


maybe, not yet enough to FoS yet, i'm working on figuring out this read. maybe more later depending on how things progress

i agree with what seshas said about otter. i already kinda started townleaning her i think but if MF flips red i would probably bump her up another step even.


Keldeo said:


> for why he wouldn't have inherited Jack's role unless Jack was, like, a "terrorist"/"out-group mafia who flips town" role, because we presumably had an out-group mafia in Mawile who flipped mafia.


i know this is handwavey, but what if the flip was another instance of infoscrambling? (ofc we don't know if the scrambler can actually change particulars - bear with me just briefly assuming that they do. given that the n0 death is one where the mafia don't have a ton of leads, i think that electing to just screw with the flip would be a good initial step to fuck with town?)



Keldeo said:


> What do you think about any reasons that VM might lie about inheriting ILS's role


openly admitting that i'm definitely trying to figure out how to fit the game into a world where VM isn't lying, but it's because i see literally no reason for him to as of now


----------



## mewtini

mewtini said:


> (ofc we don't know if the scrambler can actually change particulars - bear with me just briefly assuming that they do. given that the n0 death is one where the mafia don't have a ton of leads, i think that electing to just screw with the flip would be a good initial step to fuck with town?)


an important note is that mawile's claim said that this was impossible lol and it is kind of mean, i'm totally just throwing things at a wall and seeing what sticks rn


----------



## Keldeo

I don’t think it makes sense if Jack’s flip was deliberately scrambled or altered to read “not mafia”, because I assume the mafia would assume they’d be killing a not-mafia on night 0. Even if it was altered in some other way, the mafia would still be targeting one of their own on night 0 and idk why they’d do that either.


----------



## mewtini

ope. yeah, my post was kind of dumb there - i keep forgetting about that :x


----------



## rari_teh

Mr. Ultracool said:


> @rari_teh , would you be on board with my proposal of swapping with @Ottercopter ?


If she doesn’t swap ’till dawn, fine by me


----------



## Ottercopter

I was looking through a few pages of old posts and thought this might be useful to keep at the forefront-ish since some of us have admitted to being kinda disengaged. Although since we can still only speculate about most of these for now, maybe not? Oh well.


Keldeo said:


> Alright, here's a hopefully exhaustive summary of unresolved mechanical or weird stuff. I would like to make an actual list/summary at some point unless someone gets to it before me.
> 
> *Jack's flip:* JackPK flipped not mafia on N0. ILS claimed to be doctor and flipped not mafia on D1. VM claimed D1 that his role is to inherit the first "non-mafia" to die. VM said D2 that he inherited White Mage, a doctor role. Negrek said D1 that Deadly Doctor was Jack's role, and D2 that White Mage was ILS's role.
> — some possible resolutions: Jack was not mafia and an exception to VM's role; Jack wasn't "not mafia" even though he flipped that way; someone's lying
> 
> *rari_teh / MF cop results:*
> - Rari claims sane cop: N0 green on Ultracool, N1 red on Mawile, N2 red on M&F
> - M&F claims possibly insane cop: N0 red on Mawile, N1 red on Negrek, N2 red on Keldeo
> - Eifie claimed D2 that she had a N1 green on Mr. Ultracool
> 
> *Eifie's death:* Stryke claimed he healed Eifie N2, Eifie died anway.
> — some possible resolutions: healer clash on Eifie N2; Stryke was roleblocked or redirected N2; the kill on Eifie bypassed protection somehow; Stryke is lying
> 
> *Death flavor:* No one has been physically wounded. Jack died outside indignant, Boq died in his bed smiling, Eif died in an alleyway with a gun.
> 
> *VM's whisper:* VM claimed D2 to have gotten an anonymous message saying kyeugh isn't mafia. We don't know where it came from.
> 
> *Mysterious Informant info:* IndigoEmmy claimed D1 that the nanobot doctor (Stryke) and magic doctor (ILS->VM) don't get along, and we don't know what that means. Seshas claimed D1 that "mafia are pulling strings", and we don't know what that means. Odie_pie's info has been lost in time... like tears in rain...
> 
> *Unflipped people's roles:* We don't know them. According to Negrek, JackPK was Deadly Doctor, Boquise was A God Am I, Eifie was Vigilante Man, Odie was Mysterious Informant.


 But since then, there's also been: 

VM claiming to have healed Kyeugh with magic and Kyuegh claiming that she was healed by VM's nanobots
Herbe's claim of being a bitter widower
RNP claiming to have blocked Stryke for multiple nights now.
Also, just from looking through old posts, Negrek was wary of Stryke and I think that's worth keeping in mind even if I'm not sure what we can do about it on this particular day phase.

Also, it's not really a current issue, but... with so few posts, I may as well say it? I'm wondering if maybe Boq's death triggered VM getting the message about Kyeugh? They happened on the same night and there's no immediate evidence that suggests anyone else has been given a PM. Unless one was sent to an inactive player or something. 
Speaking of, we haven't heard from MF or Serimachi today, right? Or Flora, but... that's probably gonna be a constant. It's probably safe to say that there's at least one mafia member, presumably the killer, who's keeping up with the game (Lynching Negrek right after a mafia member gives a dramatic confession and picking off a lot of the active talkers), but I can't think of any way to narrow it down further for now.

Also, there's still the part where Rari_teh's quoted _the phrase_ at me and I dunno who to send it to next. I still think that Keldeo, Rari_teh, or VM would be best, but I dunno how to narrow it down further. As far as inspecting goes, I'm personally most interested in RNP, VM, Stryke, and Kyeugh, but I guess that all depends on who actually ends today as a cop. Oh, or Herbe. Fake claiming lovers would be pretty damn bold and incriminating, but this was also before Rari_teh claimed inspector.

 It feels like we've got a few people who've kinda formed associations with each other (VM and Kyeugh and RNP with Stryke), but I worry that some of them could be attempts by a mafia member to incriminate a townie if they die and flip Mafia? Or just w/w, but I'm with the rest of you that mafia VM would make a lot of their past claims pretty damn weird.


----------



## rari_teh

Ottercopter said:


> Also, there's still the part where Rari_teh's quoted _the phrase_ at me and I dunno who to send it to next. I still think that Keldeo, Rari_teh, or VM would be best, but I dunno how to narrow it down further. As far as inspecting goes, I'm personally most interested in RNP, VM, Stryke, and Kyeugh, but I guess that all depends on who actually ends today as a cop. Oh, or Herbe. Fake claiming lovers would be pretty damn bold and incriminating, but this was also before Rari_teh claimed inspector.


If it helps, out of those, I’m the most interested in RNP and Stryke.


----------



## mewtini

whenever this thread goes inactive, i'm reminded of how little excitement i have in my #quarantined life. i'm like. compulsively refreshing the page. i hate myself for this

i'll fully read that post in a bit, but otter, i think your warning against swapping with RNP is ... justified. so that leaves VM/stryke/kyeugh/herbe? i kinda believe herbe's lovers claim even moreso now that he's sort of checked out of the game though. i think knowing about VM/stryke would be especially useful since they're the two supposedly-PRs left in there, and i still have better vibes about VM, though i'm ambivalent between who to check between them


----------



## rari_teh

mewtini said:


> whenever this thread goes inactive, i'm reminded of how little excitement i have in my #quarantined life. i'm like. compulsively refreshing the page. i hate myself for this


I can relate  the quarantine is one of the reasons I signed up for this game in first place


----------



## mewtini

Ottercopter said:


> I'm wondering if maybe Boq's death triggered VM getting the message about Kyeugh?


this is interesting honestly. another possibility is it was some sort of one-shot that just coincided? hrm.


Ottercopter said:


> Speaking of, we haven't heard from MF or Serimachi today, right?


in seri's sort-of defense (except not really defense) they've posted like, once every day phase. lmao. MF has gone off the radar, though, in a way that i sort of think is an admission of guilt - i would be interested in knowing who she (... hypothetically) inspected though


Ottercopter said:


> _the phrase_


hahahahaha


Ottercopter said:


> VM and Kyeugh and RNP with Stryke


do you mean this as _alliance_ or just pure association? 
though now that i think about it, 
lol HOT TAKE: stryke and RNP are w/w, RNP is 'roleblocking' so stryke has an excuse for his heals not doing anything-


kyeugh said:


> simply claim to have protected people who didn’t die, and when it fails point at the mafia or suggest redirection
> hey wait a minute


(for the record i don't really suspect stryke that much more than anyone else but. lol)



rari_teh said:


> I can relate  the quarantine is one of the reasons I signed up for this game in first place


LOL. i'm not begging you guys to post more, but ......please. i need entertainment


----------



## Zori

VM/kyeugh is just straight up bizarre
mechanically, if no other roles interfered, VM is the more likely mafia since kyeugh lying about this would be just weird
Which is why I think it's more likely a role interfered
If kyeugh is mafia, they would only claim it if they knew Mafia had a role that could interfere

So if we're assuming VM is town, then it's safe to assume that mafia have some sort of information-screwing role


----------



## Zori

RedneckPhoenix keeping block Stryke pings scum who locked themselves into a claim so are now openwolfing?
But I don't see why he would openwolf when he could just as easily not

So I'm leaning Town who can't be annoyed to pay attention to the game, or maybe (?) Mafia who can't be annoyed to pay attention to the game and was told to claim by a scumbuddy? I'm not sure about the second one.


----------



## kyeugh

yeah ?? i don’t really understand the me/vm thing. i guess the rnp/stryke thing is... something? but also not really tbh. i think if rnp is scum it doesn’t really say anything about stryke
did i already vote? well *m&f* in case i didn’t ig


----------



## mewtini

assuming kyeugh is town RNP is already a confirmed roleblocker, so the second one wouldn't entirely hold. i'm just not at all convinced that he's town, but i also haven't played with RNP before ... i'll be the first to admit that i'm just kind of annoyed by his play


----------



## mewtini

btw i was joking about the rnp/stryke thing, in case it wasn't clear.

(also i don't get the kyeugh/vm pairing either, that's kinda why i asked if otter meant association or alliance - maybe she's just connected the two because of the whisper and the later heal???)


----------



## Zori

Like, as Mafia RedneckPhoenix has absolutely no reason to clear up what happened between Stryke/VM/kokoriko D2


----------



## kyeugh

mewtini said:


> assuming kyeugh is town RNP is already a confirmed roleblocker, so the second one wouldn't entirely hold. i'm just not at all convinced that he's town, but i also haven't played with RNP before ... i'll be the first to admit that i'm just kind of annoyed by his play


this is common tbh. but not a good feeling to solve on i don’t think.
i’m still riding the logic of like, i think scum rnp tends to be more involved/responsive bc his individual contribution matters more to his team, so he’s probably not scum in the game? idk. if he does this again i’m going to vote against him i think


----------



## Zori

Seshas said:


> Like, as Mafia RedneckPhoenix has absolutely no reason to clear up what happened between Stryke/VM/kokoriko D2


The only way this would make sense is if RNP isn't actually a roleblocker, but they're confirmed by kyeugh


----------



## Zori

I'll go look through M&F's early posts


----------



## Ottercopter

mewtini said:


> btw i was joking about the rnp/stryke thing, in case it wasn't clear.
> 
> (also i don't get the kyeugh/vm pairing either, that's kinda why i asked if otter meant association or alliance - maybe she's just connected the two because of the whisper and the later heal???)


I do mean association, yeah.


----------



## mewtini

i missed seshas tbh



Seshas said:


> Like, as Mafia RedneckPhoenix has absolutely no reason to clear up what happened between Stryke/VM/kokoriko D2


i'd have to go back and read, but ... this crossed my mind and i wasn't really swayed by it? i think it also could've been an attempt to confuse everyone/point fingers at possible town PRs, and i don't think it's impossible he's blocking other roles instead

like it _didn't_ clear things up. it's confirmed that he's a roleblocker but nothing else (other than when he RBed kyeugh) has been proven or disproven, right?

ftr i'm not like purely suspecting him because of my awkward toneread of him or whatever, even if there are some elements there that i'd probably start publicly dissecting if i thought it were productive/useful


----------



## mewtini

maybe im tunneling

but even when i try to read through it assuming RNP is town i just get. confused. like both by why he'd even choose stryke and like, by acting as pure chaotic neutral, i just don't get it. it doesn't feel like it's beneficial to town, and i think the only Positive takeaway i can see so far is that he 'cleared up' d2, but i don't know if that's how i feel about it yet


----------



## Zori

M&F said:


> fwiw I'm still considering it a possibility that VM was lying about the backup thing and the neglected extra detail was a fabrication; mafiosi pull that pretty often with their fakeclaims. I'm not lending that theory any further credence at the moment than that it's technically possible, but it sure is
> I also do think there's a solid likelihood that VM will croak next -- possibly because the mafia is invested in keeping Jack's secrets, sure, but moreso because the mafia would get a two-for-one in containing information from town and also offing someone who can, by the next day, turn himself into a confirmed innocent. and if Negrek isn't mafia, then getting people raring to lynch her would just be the cherry on top of the cake


Vipera probably town


M&F said:


> speaking of which, though, I did also get the feeling that Keldeo is gently _off_ in this game. like, he's doing his usual thing, but I sensed a lack of going all the way in it; maybe it's his self-admitted low engagement with this game in particular, but then, mafiosi do sometimes claim that in order to get away with playing hands-off, so... cooooould go either way.
> 
> but we all know that the realest kind of scum here is *Eifey* and-


Keldeo probably town


M&F said:


> *and for clarity, this is less of a directed burn* than some of the more visible examples of how some of us just aren't going to show up with the same playstyle we used to have Back In The Day
> 
> this goes even for old bags like say Negrek- whoops that also reads very much like a directed burn doesn't it


Mewtini definitely town (we already knew tht), maybe Herbe as well


----------



## Zori

By Herbe Town, I mean M&F didn't know Herbe's alignment


----------



## Zori

M&F said:


> two's better than one I guess!
> 
> what I _think_ my results are telling me is that Mawile (n0) and Negrek (n1) are both town.


In any case, M&F certainly didn't improv their claim


----------



## mewtini

Seshas said:


> Mewtini definitely town (we already knew tht), maybe Herbe as well


for context's sake i think this is the quote seshas wanted to include:


M&F said:


> but at any rate, man, reading people is going to be real challenging in this game, even besides the newcomers. like, we sure as hell aren't getting much out of comparing mewtini or herbe to their own past performances


----------



## mewtini

Seshas said:


> In any case, M&F certainly didn't improv their claim


also bringing this back. seeing as how the votes are looking rn it probably doesn't matter, i'm just putting this here in case MF turns up or something ... i know it was proposed that it was because she assumed early on she was a paranoid cop, but that wouldn't make any sense to assume that early in the game imho, and it wouldn't be consistent with her roleclaim


> M&F said:
> 
> 
> 
> cor blimey I keep forgetting I have a _clear_ on Mawile
> 
> gonna have to counterbus *Stryke* for now;
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> mewtini said:
> 
> 
> 
> interested in hearing more about the 'clear' haha....
> 
> Click to expand...
Click to expand...


----------



## Zori

M&F said:


> that you're pocketing him, but you did just volunteer an additional boquise FoS from farther ahead in the thread than I've checked, so either I'm misremembering or you're a weathervane, I guess
> 
> FUCK'S SAKE


Kyeugh probably town


M&F said:


> well, we have less going on, so, time to post quotes before some freak accident happens and they disappear from my listing ig
> 
> this was a read list that he posted:
> I find it strange how high up Keldeo is considereing that this list both antecedes and postcedes quite a few posts where he expressess suspcion of keldeo. hmmmmmmmm...
> (altho I'm not pretending like the elephant in the room isn't there at the bottom)
> 
> other quotes on Keldeo:
> this was in approval of a post putting him on blast
> aimed at Keldeo also
> 
> all of that said, though, he didn't seem to mind bouncing off Keldeo for speculation on whether rari_teh was being supported by scum buddies or not (and that particular topic was such a mess I couldn't bring myself to focus on it, so, I guess there shall be no quotes). anyways, it's weeeeeeeird.
> 
> ...
> 
> on ottercopter:
> 
> I only selected these two quotes to point to another possibility that's been emerging for me: boquise was pressuring ottercopter well before the EoD disaster, and was pushing to lynch her until the very end when he pushed Panini instead to break the increasingly head-hurting dichotomy.
> 
> so yeah, that'd be a terrible unreveal, but as far as killing people that were on scent goes, it's possible that this was for ottercopter. wouldn't exactly be a fantastic move, being that she's very unlikely survive much longer anyway, but we can't always assume the mob is playing well, can we?
> 
> of course, though, I'd now have to go check if boquise really stood out for any reason out of everyone else in the din that were the votes flying between ILS and Ottercopter, so... I guess that's one more thing to analyze! maybe I'll do it after I catch me some zzzzzzz
> 
> and lastly, I just quoted this one to showboat


Keldeo probably town given how blatantly M&F is shading him here
Ottercopter town


----------



## Zori

M&F said:


> thank you so much for putting it into words holy shit
> 
> the thing that first started bugging me about Keldeo is that, while asking questions a lot is what he does as town, there's persistently been something off about his approach in this game, and I think that's just it
> 
> pat pat
> 
> anyways, I also accept the Stryke wagon, although I'll only hop on if I deem it necessary


Panini may be town from that? I feel like M&F wouldn't mention it if Panini was his buddy to avoid looking like buddies.
Not sure about Keldeo anymore just from interactions by M&F, because M&F is actually hardpushing him.

That comment at the end swings Stryke down in reads a bit


----------



## Ottercopter

Pretty sure Mr. Ultracool, Rari_teh, Keldeo, and Panini specifically have clears based on role swapping and/or inspections.


----------



## mewtini

M&F said:


> seri is increasingly striking me as an useful inactive lynch piñata, yeah; if we drive that train in and the result we get is mafia, that's potentially be a solid source of raised eyebrows; it'd clear Eifie more solidly for one, and it'd possibly turn that strange bit of speculation into a lead


as well.

on first look-through i think the non-TRs - going off of MF's iso - are RNP, emmy, seshas, koko, flora, stryke (because of what seshas just quoted above me), and i think that's it? and out of those emmy/seshas are town (i just found the people who MF didn't name or who she FoS'ed, in stryke's case)


----------



## mewtini

i'm probably missing something, though. twas a very cursory glance

*also didn't mean FoS, idrk what phrase i was going for


----------



## Zori

Town
mewtini
rari_teh

Probably Town
kyeugh
Ottercopter
kokorico
Keldeo
Mr. Ultracool
Vipera Magnifica

Maybe Town
Panini
IndigoEmmy
Herbe

No Read
Stryke
serimachi

No Read because lol
Flora

Maybe Mafia
Mist1422
RedneckPhoenix

Mafia
M&F


----------



## Zori

Signing off for now probably


----------



## mewtini

might as well follow since there's not much else to do right now? hm



Spoiler: roleclaims, aiui



*mysterious informants:* seshas, emmy
*white mages: *VM, kokorico
*nano dr: *stryke
*roleblocker: *RNP (role also confirmed by skylar)
*thanatos gambit/town:* ottercopter
*swappers, associated: *ultracool, rari, keldeo
*widower: *herbe





Spoiler: mewt's tierlist



kind of with respect to roleclaims and MF interactions i guess.
still ordered within tiers, mostly

*the queen:*
@Eifie <3

*trying her best !!!:*
mewtini....

*likely town:*
rari
keldeo
ultracool
otter
kyeugh
VM

*probably town?:*
mist
stryke
panini (swap!cop!keldeo clear)
serimachi (would usually be in a "read unknown" tier, but putting them here by virtue of MF)

*third party:*
herbe i'm sorry for your loss, homie

*not great feelings:*
flora **inactive
RNP

*farewell, my friend:*
MF


----------



## Herbe

it's 6:42 my time and i woke up 15 minutes ago

is it bad that my first thought was "oh, it's almost end-of-day in mafia" which was immediately followed by "it's almost the end of the day in real life, idiot"


----------



## mewtini

Herbe said:


> it's 6:42 my time and i woke up 15 minutes ago


h e r b e


----------



## Herbe

wait we have another 24 hours ingame

also heehee!!!! I promise that's not usual for me, my usual is 1 or 2 pm these days...


----------



## mewtini

wait wtf i also thought it was EoD hahaha rip



Herbe said:


> my usual is 1 or 2 pm these days...


okay actually same


----------



## rari_teh

mewtini said:


> lol HOT TAKE: stryke and RNP are w/w, RNP is 'roleblocking' so stryke has an excuse for his heals not doing anything-


This is interesting??? I know you wrote it as a joke, but it does make sense!?


Herbe said:


> it's 6:42 my time and i woke up 15 minutes ago


I read 6:42 as in 6:42 am and was very confused
Turns out you’re not in Southeast Asia, you’re just in a twisted circadian cycle like the rest of us


Herbe said:


> wait we have another 24 hours ingame


Do we?! I could swear it was EoD!


----------



## Herbe

Yeah I thought for sure it was about to end too but the start post said that it will end on April 28 0:00 UTC


----------



## mewtini

rari_teh said:


> This is interesting??? I know you wrote it as a joke, but it does make sense!?


it kind of does! but i don't have reason to suspect stryke yet. i wanna read back but it's hard to when i'm not talking to others about it, lmao. that being said i think next day phase will see me probably pushing RNP, and hopefully not failing too badly.

also i do want to note that if anyone reads my rnp/stryke """theory""" that i agree w/kyeugh in that RNP flipping red would mean nothing for stryke's alignment, pls


----------



## rari_teh

Alas! one Day I think we have 24 hours to spare, another I think we have 24 hours less…
Since the thread is quite quiet, I’ll post my ordered tierlist



Spoiler: The List™



*Very Puzzled*
rari_teh

*Clear*
Seshas
Keldeo
IndigoEmmy
Mr. Ultracool

*Absolutely town*
mewtini
kyeugh
kokorico

*Likely town*
Vipera Magnifica
Ottercopter

*Very slight townread*
Panini
serimachi

*Hrm*
RedneckPhoenix
Stryke
Mist1422
Herbe

*Suss*
M&F

*Yikes*
Nobody at the moment

*MIA*
Flora


----------



## mewtini

hey this might be a weird q when our lists largely agree, but i'm curious; can you talk to me about your 'absolutely' and 'hrm' tiers? with the exception of herbe


----------



## mewtini

er and with the exception of.... me


----------



## kyeugh

rari_teh said:


> This is interesting??? I know you wrote it as a joke, but it does make sense!?


----------



## Ottercopter

Spoiler: All the cool kids are doing tier lists and I am DEFINITELY a cool kid



*Townie with Extenuating Circumstances or Something:*
Me!

*Maximum Trust:* (please don't be some kind of cult and make me feel stupid)
Mr. Ultracool
Rari_teh
Keldeo
Panini

*Trust:*
Mewtini
IndigoEmmy

*Trust-ish?*
Seshas 
Kyeugh (Good vibes, but I still wanna understand all the odd things going on)
VM (see Kyeugh)
Kokorico

*No Attachment To:*
Serimachi
Mist
Flora

*I Wanna Know More:*
Stryke

*Third Party Party* No, uh, *Wary, but not as concerned for now:*
Herbe


*Outright Suspicious:*
RNP
MF


----------



## Stryke

Ottercopter said:


> *I Wanna Know More:*
> Stryke


Anything I can clarify for you, or is it more just that there's stuff that seems off about me, and you're waiting for a body swap or something to help clear things up?


----------



## Ottercopter

I'm just waiting for inspection/swapping/some sort of verifiable info for now. Part of it is admittedly that Negrek was suspicious of you and I think she's smart? She was also the only other one besides me (that I can at least remember) who didn't think Mawile's claim was worth believing at all and I liked that. 

Bleh, I keep saying that I'll check through old posts, but the number of posts that requires combing through is so overwhelming and I only get through a few at a time. Really regretting not taking better notes as we went. '-'

I feel like there kinda HAS to be at least one mafia member who's active among us (besides MF) and false claimed, but I have absolutely no idea who it is.


----------



## Zori

Stryke said:


> Anything I can clarify for you, or is it more just that there's stuff that seems off about me, and you're waiting for a body swap or something to help clear things up?


Would you be willing to join me on a RedneckPhoenix wagon?


----------



## kyeugh

Seshas said:


> Would you be willing to join me on a RedneckPhoenix wagon?


any particular reason for this OVER mf


----------



## Stryke

Seshas said:


> Would you be willing to join me on a RedneckPhoenix wagon?


Probably, but I also wanna know why


----------



## mewtini

kyeugh said:


> any particular reason for this OVER mf


are you now committed to an MF lynch?/did something change (or is this just general rationale-searching)

i mean i think sticking with MF is the move but i also would love to press RNP for info


----------



## kyeugh

mewtini said:


> are you now committed to an MF lynch?/did something change (or is this just general rationale-searching)
> 
> i mean i think sticking with MF is the move but i also would love to press RNP for info


 just trying to figure out the rationale yeah
i’m still meh about an mf lynch but not sure i’m at the point of wanting to lynch rnp instead


----------



## mewtini

is there anyone you're less meh about? i still think MF makes the most sense by far, even if it won't be super illuminating, but i get being ambivalent too


----------



## mewtini

mewtini said:


> even if it won't be super illuminating


actually i kinda take this back. look at the sheer number of TRs we got off of going through MF's post history


----------



## rari_teh

I’m writing a reply to mewtini’s q but. Guys. Shall we not lynch the dude who has a potentially useful role just because he’s making poor decisions? Wouldn’t it be a smarter move if somebody else swapped with him?


----------



## Herbe

yeah i really don't think an RNP lynch is gonna be useful today. Maybe an idea for tomorrow though.


----------



## Herbe

*useful over an M&F lynch. we get so much more info (re:the townreads) out of an mf flip, and mf doesn't even claim a really useful role to town anyway if we lost her. rnp is acting weird, yeah, and that merits investigation, but imo it's not the right move to lynch him today when we have such a better option


----------



## kyeugh

rari_teh said:


> I’m writing a reply to mewtini’s q but. Guys. Shall we not lynch the dude who has a potentially useful role just because he’s making poor decisions? Wouldn’t it be a smarter move if somebody else swapped with him?


 i don’t really understand the swapping thing still but generally i don’t think “they claimed a power role” is a good defense especially when they’re literally openly fucking town with it and the role isn’t really alignment indicative anyway


mewtini said:


> is there anyone you're less meh about? i still think MF makes the most sense by far, even if it won't be super illuminating, but i get being ambivalent too


 not really, it just seems like no one has anything to say about it which is like. shrug. i desire spicy thread tbh


----------



## mewtini

rari_teh said:


> I’m writing a reply to mewtini’s q but. Guys. Shall we not lynch the dude who has a potentially useful role just because he’s making poor decisions? Wouldn’t it be a smarter move if somebody else swapped with him?


i'm just going to say now that i really, really do not care that much about preserving a town power role when it has not - as far as we know - been beneficial for town, and when the person with the role hasn't been that involved or useful in discussions. i have to Read More but as i said before RNP is my next push. i thought that the day was ending tho so i didn't bother looking, but since we still have a while left maybe i will get a head start and report back eventually

also roleblocker isn't a townlean at all. it could very easily be mafia aligned


----------



## Herbe

mewtini said:


> i'm just going to say now that i really, really do not care that much about preserving a town power role when it has not - as far as we know - been beneficial for town, and when the person with the role hasn't been that involved or useful in discussions.


here I go again, loving mewtini

this this this. this is why i think rnp is the smartest push for tomorrow, ofc barring any Incredibly Spicy News from anyone. but even if there is spicy news, the rnp push still shouldn't be swept aside imo


----------



## mewtini

Herbe said:


> *useful over an M&F lynch. we get so much more info (re:the townreads) out of an mf flip, and mf doesn't even claim a really useful role to town anyway if we lost her. rnp is acting weird, yeah, and that merits investigation, but imo it's not the right move to lynch him today when we have such a better option


yeah, the fact that MF's claim is a paranoid cop is very, like, shrug to me. obviously i don't want to lose townies but there are worse things at least - 

i agree with what y'all are saying. i just wanted to let it go on for a bit so i could see what stryke said, since i thought that maybe seshas was maybe trying to pull some sort of read out of stryke's response and not so much trying to lynch RNP. it looked like a wagon play to me, esp when seshas has pointed out a lot of anti-MF material


----------



## rari_teh

mewtini said:


> hey this might be a weird q when our lists largely agree, but i'm curious; can you talk to me about your 'absolutely' and 'hrm' tiers? with the exception of herbe


*kyeugh*: Consistently solvey, hasn’t ever backtracked on anything since d1 iirc, was quick to lynch Mawile. Also the way she acted when she was pressing me felt legitimately towny fsr? Like, she s Good feels overall.
*kokorico*: I still stand by this rationale I wrote on d2:


rari_teh said:


> All of eir posts seem to be long, well founded and well thought out. Despite few and far-between, eir opinions don’t prey on low-hanging fruit and aren’t just reassurances of the majority thought, as would be expected from mafia. E’s vibing well enough for me to be almost sure e’s a townie with a busy-ish meat *vegan *life.


I have no reason to distrust eir roleclaim, too.
*RedneckPhoenix*: His insistence on blocking Stryke is mildly infuriating. I have three possible explanations: a) he’s just fucking with us for the sweet, sweet lulz and either doesn’t care about the game or didn’t even block Stryke to begin with; b) he knows something we don’t and has a perfectly good reason to block Stryke every night; c) Eifie died of healer clash, RNP was targeted by the Mafia and is now an activated alien trying his best to piss everyone off expecting to be lynched
*Stryke*: That crackpot epiphany I had the other day doesn’t leave the back of my mind. VM might’ve inherited a 3p role (nanobots deadly doctor) from JackPK and fakeclaimed white mage and nobody will counterclaim Stryke because of that
*Mist1422*: Very rarely posts and iirc she’s never been helpful. She’d be next in my to-lynch list.


----------



## mewtini

mewtini said:


> also roleblocker isn't a townlean at all. it could very easily be mafia aligned


last thing on RNP: just because he's, like, being public about his blocks doesn't make me trust him any more than i would if he kept quiet about it

also @rari thanks!


rari_teh said:


> VM might’ve inherited a 3p role (nanobots deadly doctor) from JackPK and fakeclaimed white mage


how do you think this would benefit VM? on one hand making the fakeclaim could maybe make sense if he didn't know someone like skylar - who gets info upon being targeted - would come along, but beyond that i don't really see the value in it just yet. maybe it's a silly thing for me to townread VM for, but i can't see a reason why it would make sense for wolf!VM to do this



rari_teh said:


> *Mist1422*: Very rarely posts and iirc she’s never been helpful. She’d be next in my to-lynch list.


why mist over RNP or an inactive (i.e. serimachi)?


----------



## kyeugh

Herbe said:


> here I go again, loving mewtini
> 
> this this this. this is why i think rnp is the smartest push for tomorrow, ofc barring any Incredibly Spicy News from anyone. but even if there is spicy news, the rnp push still shouldn't be swept aside imo


what, you dont love me for saying it first!?


----------



## mewtini

kyeugh said:


> but I’M the same person as mewtini!


herbe loving either of us is the same as herbe loving both of us. it's science, my friend!


----------



## mewtini

rari_teh said:


> Wouldn’t it be a smarter move if somebody else swapped with him?


wait, sorry, THIS is the last thing because i didn't see it earlier. i think ottercopter has done a good job of outlining why this is not the smartest idea lol


Ottercopter said:


> I don't think RNP is a good idea. If he's just blocking Stryke for his own amusement and not interested in anything we have to say, there's no guarantee he'll swap the power back later


----------



## Ottercopter

rari_teh said:


> I’m writing a reply to mewtini’s q but. Guys. Shall we not lynch the dude who has a potentially useful role just because he’s making poor decisions? Wouldn’t it be a smarter move if somebody else swapped with him?


Glad we still have almost a day to figure this out, lol. I'd like to hear more of Keldeo's thoughts about swapping in particular. I hope the next day will give us some time to figure out who's a good or bad idea to swap with, but... RNP still doesn't seem trustworthy to me. In the worst case scenario, the swapper will be trading with mafia (or trigger whatever mechanics occur when someone tries to do that?).

Even in the best case... We're giving RNP the power to take someone's role at will. We can swap amongst ourselves after that, I guess, but we can't really get that role back without making him the body swapper in the end, right? The only way I could see that work is if we made absolutely sure to swap with him at the very last second for the EoD and that just seems risky if his approach to the game so far has just been "lolsorandom!" Plus, he could try the same thing the day after.

Still don't think we have an activated alien around. No changes in death patterns and all that.


----------



## mewtini

i agree with otter, again. in addition to the activated alien theory,



rari_teh said:


> RNP was targeted by the Mafia and is now an activated alien trying his best to piss everyone off expecting to be lynched


(i know this is just a possibility that you're laying out, but) i want to mention again that it's kind of unlikely RNP was a mafia hit when he was still pretty much inactive and when they've seemed focused on uprooting Town Culture (between eifie, who was shepherding, and negrek, who was contributing a fair amount in addition to having her ability)

and like, even _now_ that he's a bit more active, he would still be a really weird target. so


----------



## Stryke

mewtini said:


> i'm just going to say now that i really, really do not care that much about preserving a town power role when it has not - as far as we know - been beneficial for town, and when the person with the role hasn't been that involved or useful in discussions.


basically my logic too and definitely not because im salty at being blocked twice in a row for lulz >:(. Best case scenario, we catch a mafia man. Worst case scenario, we get rid of a townie that likely wasnt going to be too much help for the town anyways


----------



## Ottercopter

Oh! One little follow-up. If we really, really wanna try to take RNP's role and not just off him, we could swap with him right before lynching him at like 23:59 or the like. But we'd lose the body swapper role for good in the process, and I still dunno what could happen if he's mafia.
So. Probably not worth the risk. Also, it's not like the EoD is mechanically timed, so even seconds of wiggle room is time for things to go wrong. Butterfree did give us a sudden extension that one time. And I'm hoping we'll just... uncover more useful information to find a more definite target next day phase instead ala Mawile. But I may as well say it...?


----------



## Ottercopter

WAIT one more thing about that! For an RNP is mafia scenario: I think Negrek or someone mentioned that there's probably a mechanic to bodyswapping to prevent an outcome where a mafia person becomes a townie and just... rats out everyone in Mafia chat, but if there somehow isn't, killing the new body swapper/RNP in that scenario would prevent any chance of that happening too.


----------



## RedneckPhoenix

'ey fuck you otter


I leave the goddamn game for like what 36 hours to try and have a nice fuckin' weekend and y'all's trying to lynch me


strkye and I have _history_. either best friends or sworn enemies at any given moment. sometimes both. 


i try and play my goddamn role by painting myself as a moron who can't achieve anything and it works! but what i was really doing for nights 1-3 was fishing for something that would result in a lack of a kill. which, admittedly, kind of a fool's errand in a game of this scope, but read the role, genius


ottercopter is saying some incredibly shady shit rn and nobody's contesting it


----------



## RedneckPhoenix

what are the odds that whatever swapper may be around is currently a mafioso who had their kill ability stolen or something. do you wanna take the risk of possibly giving the mafia a roleblock


----------



## mewtini

RedneckPhoenix said:


> but what i was really doing for nights 1-3 was fishing for something that would result in a lack of a kill.


so did you not actually repeat-block stryke?



RedneckPhoenix said:


> i try and play my goddamn role by painting myself as a moron who can't achieve anything and it works!


?_? lol



Ottercopter said:


> One little follow-up. If we really, really wanna try to take RNP's role and not just off him, we could swap with him right before lynching him at like 23:59 or the like.


this is actually, like, a good thought



RedneckPhoenix said:


> ottercopter is saying some incredibly shady shit rn and nobody's contesting it


i don't see how this is shady given the assumptions that are being generally made. like, i don't have much reason to/rapport with you, at least not enough to townread you over other people? how is what otter's saying shady coming from the mindset of w!RNP being a possibility



RedneckPhoenix said:


> what are the odds that whatever swapper may be around is currently a mafioso who had their kill ability stolen or something. do you wanna take the risk of possibly giving the mafia a roleblock


nor is this actually worse odds than you having the role rn when none of us have a strong read on you


----------



## RedneckPhoenix

i don't even know what's going on in this game anymore. thought i knew for a minute there but then yall started talking abt there being multiple swappers? i need a goddamn ibuprofen with the crazy claims some of you are making


----------



## Stryke

RedneckPhoenix said:


> strkye and I have _history_. either best friends or sworn enemies at any given moment. sometimes both.


i cant believe youre two timing me with whoever this strkye bastard is


----------



## mewtini

RedneckPhoenix said:


> i don't even know what's going on in this game anymore. thought i knew for a minute there but then yall started talking abt there being multiple swappers? i need a goddamn ibuprofen with the crazy claims some of you are making


there aren't multiple swappers but there are multiple people in the group of People Who Have Been Swapped With


----------



## RedneckPhoenix

mewtini said:


> so did you not actually repeat-block stryke?
> 
> 
> 
> nor is this actually worse odds than you having the role rn when none of us have a strong read on you


i did block stryke twice because he's a shifty motherfucker and his doctor claim was incredibly suspicious to me

i don't know how to emphasize that i'm a roleblocker other than to block someone with an important role of some sort.


----------



## mewtini

RedneckPhoenix said:


> i did block stryke twice because he's a shifty motherfucker and his doctor claim was incredibly suspicious to me
> 
> i don't know how to emphasize that i'm a roleblocker other than to block someone with an important role of some sort.


why not block, say, MF who had been read as mafia ... ? not that that would've necessarily stopped the kill. ... but then again, neither would blocking stryke that second time. what is your strat?



RedneckPhoenix said:


> i don't know how to emphasize that i'm a roleblocker


like just to clarify i don't doubt (and i don't really think anyone else should doubt) that you're a roleblocker, it's your alignment that i'm a little :|a chinscratch about as of now. also, like, you're not in danger of being lynched toDay or anything, but i have a lot of qs i guess


----------



## mewtini

and i'm sorry if i sound harsh btw. this is currently the only lead i feel like i have right now and i don't really think i'm the only person who's just straight up confused by your targets/appearances so far


----------



## RedneckPhoenix

the answers are "not everyone plays mafia the same way" and "when i said i was gonna play like a total fucking idiot what i meant to say was i'm gonna play it true to myself, who is a total fucking idiot" and "mafiauniverse-style discussion scares me"


----------



## RedneckPhoenix

i've all but spelled out that i have no idea how to play mafia. and now i have spelled it out. town of salem is more my style tbh


----------



## mewtini

RedneckPhoenix said:


> not everyone plays mafia the same way


no, i know. and like, i seriously haven't played mafia before this, so i'm empathizing with that 2x

i'll just ask, then - what did you think you were going to gain from blocking stryke a second time, when the deathcount didn't change the first time you targeted him? were you just hoping to stave off a kill?

like, i'd feel _better_ if you were to have said something like "oh i hadn't considered that that would mean the first block was ineffective somehow" but the lack of explanation is kind of forcing me to FoS


----------



## RedneckPhoenix

i gave you my explanation! if there's even a smidgeon of a reason to mess with stryke, like a shady doctor claim, i'm gonna take it and run with it


----------



## Stryke

RedneckPhoenix said:


> if there's even a smidgeon of a reason to mess with stryke, like a shady doctor claim, i'm gonna take it and run with it


i can believe this


----------



## mewtini

no, i get that, i mean that it seems inconsistent with "fishing for something that would result in a lack of a kill" to repeat targets. unless you just didn't think about that, which is really the kind of admission i was hoping for, when other scumreads existed

(i'm also actually sorry if i'm pushing too hard. i am just confused)


----------



## RedneckPhoenix

i started out fishing and then i hit stryke, fishing at him. and then i hit him again, because haha funnee stryke block


----------



## mewtini

basically the root of it is that i can understand blocking stryke once, even if i was kind of bewildered by it, it's understandable if that really was your read. 

it's really just the rationale of the second block that i'm interested in, and when there's not much to go off of other than stuff like this idrk how to see your night actions as town-sympathetic, even when i try to think of all the ways in which that could be the case



RedneckPhoenix said:


> and then i hit him again, because haha funnee stryke block


hm. ok


----------



## Ottercopter

It's fine that you don't know how to play Mafia. There's quite a few newbies here. But your seeming disinterest in engaging with us at all until just now is what's bothering people here. If you're town aligned, you should, at minimum, care about things like townies still dying when Stryke is blocked with no obvious difference. I barely see any evidence that you're keeping up with the thread (like when you thought we meant multiple people had individual swapping roles), but you're also not really asking questions about what you've missed. Or implying any interest in it at all except that you're at risk.

Also, frankly, your tone is bugging the fuck out of me.


> but read the role, genius


Is there ANY reason to talk like this here? Even if this is just being playfully rude, I don't think most of us are close enough with you to know that and it's not really good to take that kind of tone if you don't know people are okay with it.


----------



## RedneckPhoenix

sorry that being told "we should lynch him and take his role" kinda puts me in an ornery mood fam


----------



## mewtini

in retrospect i kind of regret not pushing RNP harder during the ILS era

part 3 or so of otter saying what i was thinking, except better



RedneckPhoenix said:


> sorry that being told "we should lynch him and take his role" kinda puts me in an ornery mood fam


idk how someone can say this without having been involved in town discussion at all

part of my pure toneread from a while back was me being miffed about RNP's entrance in the mid-3300s, and admittedly, that was just tone but i don't really know how to reconcile it now. i'm _not_ set in this push, i haven't been set on any push (because that would be kinda silly!) but i still don't have like, a single reason why i'd villa read you versus scumread and still no indication of there being a pro-town agenda. i'm reading chaotic energy as wolflike

i feel like it requires more mental gymnastics for me to assume town!RNP than to assume w!RNP, and then there's some other stuff thrown in along the way (like the lack of an MF poke) that make me extra-wonder

not that this will matter until the next day phase


----------



## RedneckPhoenix

while i get that it's easy to be suspicious of me because i seem like i don't care but also simultaneously care a bit too much, i don't react well when i'm actively trying to help despite sandbagging the first 2 days


i sandbagged cuz i didn't wanna clog up chat with useless info that helps noone. i thought i had something with stryke which i thought would be hilarious if it turned out to be true and it seems like it wasn't. but just cuz of that doesn't mean i should be on the bottom of damn near every tier list.


i have never played in a mafia game in which i was not chaotic whether through role or my own posts or vote history. i play like a random number generator because every now and then you spin a wheel and it lands on One Million Dollars


----------



## RedneckPhoenix

tl;dr: i'm not trying my best but i'm at least trying


----------



## mewtini

RedneckPhoenix said:


> but just cuz of that doesn't mean i should be on the bottom of damn near every tier list


i mean ftr i really am not trying to make you feel bad and i don't think anyone else here is. 

but when it comes down to it people are going to mostly townread off of friendliness and mechanics/intent, and i feel weird on both here. i also understand trying to avoid clogging up the thread, but i think a shared sentiment is that people saying _anything_ about their opinions is going to build rapport infinitely more than randomly reappearing when voting talk comes up. like i really would feel so much better if any more reasoning/just admitting "idk" came up

not to mention that if stryke isn't lying (and we can't even tell if he is, if you really did roleblock) that this is actively hurting town. and it's hard to consistently assume that it was simple oversight ... that combined with being flippant isn't a great look

i will back off now though, gn man


----------



## Panini

Keldeo said:


> What do you think about any reasons that VM might lie about inheriting ILS's role (as opposed to, I guess, Jack's?) I guess I just don't understand why he would lie about that, although I also can't come up with an explanation for why he wouldn't have inherited Jack's role unless Jack was, like, a "terrorist"/"out-group mafia who flips town" role, because we presumably had an out-group mafia in Mawile who flipped mafia.
> 
> That's one of the two mechanical issues that have come up wrt VM. But because ILS claimed to be White Mage/magic healing before he died, if VM is telling the truth about inheriting iLS's role, I'm chalking it up to an info-scrambling role that VM apparently targeted kyeugh with nanomachines.


I kinda think though that it's still in the realm of possibility that he just hasn't had a universal backup role from the start and the whole thing could be a cover up for like, a mafia JOAT or something that adapts based on dead town roles.
I guess the trouble there is that in that case it feels a bit weird that he'd choose to heal kyeugh with that power and yet later kyeugh calls him out unprompted for using the wrong type of healing, which suggests they're not teamed together?
I guess it could be just the info scrambling mechanic? But the thing is I feel like it's a bit underpowered to just have "White Magic Healing" --> "Nanobots" and I can't really fathom why Mawile would choose to specifically have it that way if it was more of a choice than random so? Idk. My main vibe is that
I get why the pressure is off in this direction but I'm also not really fully comforted by the fact we don't have a solid explanation for it.


----------



## kyeugh

*redneckphoenix*


----------



## Panini

Keldeo said:


> Also @Panini, who are your next targets assuming we lynch MF today? Do you have any less-consensus clears or thoughts?


I'll try and get some fuller thoughts up tomorrow re: entire gamestate. I don't think I'm too far away from everyone else in terms of reads tho. The towncore we have budding (Rari, Keldeo, mewtini, kyeugh, Indigo, Seshas and Mr. Ultra) seems alright, but I'm worried that we're in a sort of pre-endgame state and that we still have a decent amount of ? slots (Mist/serimachi/Flora)
Stryke/RNP/Kokorico situation is kind of unsettling for me because I get the vibe that mafia have fingers in that pie somehow. I know previously I had talked about it just being like. Maybe some kind of role that's in the game that we don't know about yet but open q: What do you think is the likelihood that Butterfree would include some sort of mafia strongman, or otherwise doctor penetrating ability in the game?
The more I'm sitting on it the less satisfactory it feels because of the timing - it doesn't seem right that Eifie was dead and then Stryke claimed she should be alive and then Kokorico said wait healer clash and then RNP went - actually _no_ healer clash and the whole thing is unsolved for.


----------



## Zori

fwiw my question about a RedneckPhoenix wagon was specifically to see how Stryke would react


----------



## Zori

My only resevations about Mafia!Stryke is that according to IndigoEmmy there IS a Nanobot Doctor in the game, and unless someone just didn't speak up fsr, there's noone else who could possibly be it.


----------



## Zori

We'll see based on flips, but I'm acting for now off the assumption that M&F distanced by ignoring his teammates


----------



## Zori

Seshas said:


> My only resevations about Mafia!Stryke is that according to IndigoEmmy there IS a Nanobot Doctor in the game, and unless someone just didn't speak up fsr, there's noone else who could possibly be it.


Unless it was Jack? Because technically, Stryke's trope is The Medic, which doesn't mention nanobots at all


----------



## Zori

Jack being town obviously causes more problems though


----------



## IndigoClaudia

Seshas said:


> Jack being town obviously causes more problems though


What kinds of problems do you speak of?


----------



## Zori

IndigoEmmy said:


> What kinds of problems do you speak of?


The Vipera getting Squirtle's role screwery


----------



## IndigoClaudia

im confused but yep.


----------



## Mr. Ultracool

mewtini said:


> *mysterious informants:* seshas,


Quick question; after swapping, I also became a MI. If it's allowed, I'd like to post my role PN, too, but if it isn't, I'll just have to paraphrase it as knowing that there is an Evil Doctor TM  running around.



Ottercopter said:


> I feel like there kinda HAS to be at least one mafia member who's active among us (besides MF) and false claimed, but I have absolutely no idea who it is.


_It's not you, it's... _not me, either  (Sorry, I just couldn't resist)



Ottercopter said:


> If we really, really wanna try to take RNP's role and not just off him, we could swap with him right before lynching him at like 23:59 or the like.


Why, though? There's been quite the missconception about this role, tbh. The person who was hit with _the phrase _can't do anything at all about the swap; its the Bodysnatcher quoting another person that does it. If we really wanted to, we could _phrase _RNP at dusk and he'd be incapable of doing anything bar intervention of a Dayvig.


----------



## Ottercopter

Mr. Ultracool said:


> Why, though? There's been quite the missconception about this role, tbh.


Too late now, but I think some misconception woulda been okay. The less info we give the mafia for free, the better.


----------



## IndigoClaudia

mewtini said:


> *the queen:*
> @Eifie <3
> 
> *trying her best !!!:*
> mewtini....
> 
> *likely town:*
> rari
> keldeo
> ultracool
> otter
> kyeugh
> VM
> 
> *probably town?:*
> mist
> stryke
> panini (swap!cop!keldeo clear)
> serimachi (would usually be in a "read unknown" tier, but putting them here by virtue of MF)
> 
> *third party:*
> herbe i'm sorry for your loss, homie
> 
> *not great feelings:*
> flora **inactive
> RNP
> 
> *farewell, my friend:*


Where do i fit here?


----------



## Mr. Ultracool

Ottercopter said:


> Too late now, but I think some misconception woulda been okay. The less info we give the mafia for free, the better.


Sure, hampering the mafia would have been great, but if there's a variety of seemingly solid strategies of how to proceed from here that have a snowball's chance in hell of working, we are only shooting ourselves in the feet.


----------



## mewtini

Mr. Ultracool said:


> Quick question; after swapping, I also became a MI. If it's allowed, I'd like to post my role PN, too, but if it isn't, I'll just have to paraphrase it as knowing that there is an Evil Doctor TM  running around.


posting the PM isn't allowed - you could paraphrase it, if you wanted - but thanks! don't worry. i remembered that, i just put you in the swap category since you aren't (?) an MI anymore ... sorry, my understanding is a bit fuzzy. either way you're cleared in my mind, at least for now :)


Seshas said:


> My only resevations about Mafia!Stryke is that according to IndigoEmmy there IS a Nanobot Doctor in the game, and unless someone just didn't speak up fsr, there's noone else who could possibly be it.


it could be flora, maybe? there are still a couple people who could conceivably have evaded getting the chance to counterclaim, but i am more tempted to let stryke go for now, if only because i'm really uncertain about how to proceed with detangling whatever's going on with our healing roles and scared of messing it up lol


Panini said:


> But the thing is I feel like it's a bit underpowered to just have "White Magic Healing" --> "Nanobots" and I can't really fathom why Mawile would choose to specifically have it that way if it was more of a choice than random so?


if it were a choice, i still think that it introduced a decent amount of FUD? in another universe i don't think it's impossible it could've resulted in a more widespread VM-fear, but idk

i don't really know what non info-scrambling role could've done it, because it goes beyond just role redirection, doesn't it



IndigoEmmy said:


> Where do i fit here?


lol i forgot both you and seshas because i always put y'all in the same spot. sorry. reposted, made some revisions



Spoiler: tierlist, again



kind of with respect to roleclaims and MF interactions i guess.
still ordered within tiers, mostly. disclaimer that i didn't know how to sort the top because of the many mech-clears and my lack of certainty in how Clearing they are

*trying her best !!!:*
mewtini....

*likely town:*
rari
seshas
keldeo
ultracool
kyeugh
VM
emmy
otter
panini (swap!cop!keldeo clear)

*probably town?:*
mist
stryke
serimachi (would usually be in a "read unknown" tier, but putting them here by virtue of MF)

*third party:*
herbe i'm sorry for your loss, homie

*not great feelings:*
flora **inactive
RNP

*farewell, my friend:*
MF


----------



## mewtini

Panini said:


> The more I'm sitting on it the less satisfactory it feels because of the timing - it doesn't seem right that Eifie was dead and then Stryke claimed she should be alive and then Kokorico said wait healer clash and then RNP went - actually _no_ healer clash and the whole thing is unsolved for.


bringing this up too because it pretty much is exactly how i've felt about the possibility of a strongman/the overall worry i have about the scenario haha. i had a theory before that maybe RNP only even claimed to have blocked stryke to discredit him though i now don't think it was that planned out, but either way i think there's something Sinister going on in that group as well


----------



## mewtini

kyeugh said:


> *redneckphoenix*


do i join you on this wagon tbh


----------



## mewtini

RedneckPhoenix said:


> i'm gonna play it true to myself, who is a total fucking idiot





RedneckPhoenix said:


> i gave you my explanation! if there's even a smidgeon of a reason to mess with stryke, like a shady doctor claim, i'm gonna take it and run with it


last thing for now before i go and..... finish out one of my classes for the semester. 

i lowkey gaslit myself while talking to RNP and i was like, maybe everyone's right and i'm going too hard at this? idk i was undergoing like legitimate dread about having to approach the situation because i felt like i was the only one who felt openly *bad* about it until otter started talking about it, but now that i have slept on it i want to reiterate that this is still so weird to me - this quote in particular, for not being remotely rooted in town agenda.

taking it at _face value_ (assuming that RNP has blocked who he's said he's blocked) at best it's town-hurting-town, and at worst mafia who got poked into making an openclaim and, for one reason (apathy) or another (uncertainty), hasn't attempted to make up justifications or backstory


----------



## kyeugh

mewtini said:


> do i join you on this wagon tbh


idk, do you!?


----------



## mewtini

eh EoD is a while away yet and i'm interested in how this turns out

*redneckphoenix*


----------



## qenya

Hi again! Sorry I haven't been around much this phase - there hasn't been much to go on and I've had work to do anyway. Will try to be more active on D5.

First off, it doesn't seem like we're going to hear from *M&F* so. yeah. I was a little worried that, although rari is basically conftown by virtue of bodyswapping, her reads might have been compromised by Mawile. But M&F shows no sign of coming to defend themself which frankly speaks volumes in itself. (I'd be on board with the RNP wagon too if that gets off the ground - see below.)

More usefully, I've been thinking about the me/RNP/Stryke debacle (from a mechanical pov, since I'm starting to realise that I am very bad at making reads). In the hope that it will be helpful, I've made a matrix of how well each possible combination of alignments fits the facts. First up is the scenario where I actually am a doctor and healed Eifie.

*doc!kokorico*

*mafia!RNP**town!RNP**mafia!Stryke**Doesn't fit the facts.* I should have healed Eifie, preventing her from dying, so the only way this works is if I was roleblocked. But nobody (including me) had any indication I was a doctor beforehand, so that should be impossible.*Stryke's fakeclaim doesn't make sense.* He didn't know that RNP targeted him, so claiming to have healed Eifie drew attention to him for no gain. He should have claimed to heal someone completely different, which would have been unfalsifiable.*town!Stryke**Probably the most plausible option* in this table. Healer clash happened, and then RNP fakeclaimed to throw shade at me or Stryke or both. However, it doesn't explain where the _real_ mafia nightkill went - maybe they targeted protected!kyeugh?*Contradicts Eifie's death.* Requires interference from a fourth, unknown role (like a mafia strongman), or RNP to be lying for shits and giggles. Either is conceivably possible, but considerably less likely than the healer clash.

Second, assuming my role is fake, as Keldeo speculated earlier. We already know that this is game is hugely nonstandard so I don't think it would be outside the realm of possibility, even if it would be slightly frustrating for me. These scenarioes also leave fewer questions unanswered than the ones above do.

*fakedoc!kokorico*

*mafia!RNP**town!RNP**mafia!Stryke**Could be a risky mafia plan*, with Stryke and RNP concocting plausible fakeclaims that fit the facts. RNP would look scummy for the questionable decision of blocking a claimed doctor, but without my claim, they might have gotten away with it.*Stryke's fakeclaim still doesn't make sense.* This case is the same as in the above table because I hadn't claimed yet at the time he made his claim, so he had no idea I even might be a doctor, let alone that there was some doubt about it.*town!Stryke**RNP's behaviour seems off.* This scenario requires RNP to be a mafia roleblocker who actually did block Stryke. But then he would know I wasn't really a doctor, which would make it incredibly easy for him to cast me as scum - yet he hasn't. Then again, he hasn't been terribly active anyway.*Entirely possible, and an epic fail for town.* In this situation I would expect the mafia to be supporting RNP, since he would (a) seem incredibly scummy and (b) be worth keeping around in case he fucked up again. Which he did, by blocking Stryke again - so arguably we should be lynching him anyway.

And for completion's sake, here's a third set for the world where I'm actually mafia. Obviously _I_ know I'm town (...unless butterfree is lying to me, which would be even more cruel than making me a fake doctor) but if the shoe was on the other foot I would be suspicious of everyone involved, so it wouldn't be terribly helpful of me to ignore this branch of possibilities. It's also useful because it lets us model how town!RNP would be thinking (see below).

*mafia!kokorico*

*mafia!RNP**town!RNP**mafia!Stryke**Doesn't make any sense at all.* RNP would do better to keep quiet and let Stryke's and my story of a healer clash stand. (And even if RNP were being deliberately screwy, I at least would definitely be yelling at him in wolfchat.)*The only real possibility* in this set. Stryke and I think up a story of a healer clash and RNP blunders into it, fucking up our carefully laid plan. I can't prove this didn't happen (unless RNP or Stryke flips the wrong way) so I guess I have to ask you to trust me here.*town!Stryke**Doesn't explain how Eifie died*, as Stryke should have healed her. As above, the only way this works is if RNP actually did block him. But then my fakeclaim would be harmful to mafia, as it would screw with an otherwise plausible story.*Lacks any reason for me to fakeclaim.* I'd know that the mafiakill had gone through despite Stryke's attempted heal, and therefore that a town roleblocker must have targeted him. In that situation I'd shut up and let town yell at RNP for causing Eifie's death.

Conclusions:

There's at least a reasonable chance that my role PM is inaccurate: so, unless instructed otherwise, I'll 100% target kyeugh tonight (no coinflip) in the hope that her ~mysterious~ role can provide insight. (I suggest VM heals, or at least coinflip-heals, Keldeo as he may still be the cop, and suggest Ottercopter does more swapping to further obfuscate the other possibilities)
If I am in fact a doctor, Stryke definitely is too. But if my role is fake it's possible (though not likely, imo) that he may be lying.
RNP is probably mafia (or at least lying, or playing antitown, for some inexplicable reason). However, this line of reasoning is predicated on my own knowledge that I am town; if you think I am mafia, then RNP is probably not
Corollary: town!RNP should believe me to be mafia with probability > random chance. The fact that he's not hammered on me at any point today or yesterday is frankly odd.

Will be back again before EOD to see what people think, and to jump on the RNP wagon if it's a thing yet. I understand if you'd be wary of my longposts following my going-off-the-rails-about-aliens post earlier, but hopefully this is useful to someone's theorising anyway.


----------



## mewtini

holy shit koko


----------



## mewtini

don't have much to say except that on first readthrough that seems solid to me. in general, i don't think kyeugh would've been an unlikely mafia hit and i also think that kokorico has looked pretty towny (moreso as time goes on, and i also may be in the minority but i liked the weird alien spec post in the context of eir post history) so i'm still subscribing to that for now

also i agree that if koko is mafia, RNP is (very likely) not also. i'm deflating my own ?maf!RNP take here though, because i think RNP did get as close to hammering on you as he ever will:


RedneckPhoenix said:


> so. we think it was a healer clash?
> how interesting.


as an aside, i went through toDay's posts for a votecount/post-track, if anyone is curious (i started wondering once another wagon pulled up). as of right now it's


Spoiler: votes, (inactive votes)



6 mf: otter 3655, (me 3656), herbe 3657, rari 3687, panini 3695, seshas 3701, (skylar 3717), kokorico 3822
2 RNP: skylar 3802, me 3821


----------



## Vipera Magnifica

Panini said:


> @Vipera Magnifica if it's safe for you to say so, who'd you heal last night?


I healed Stryke, since Stryke was coinflip-healing me and kokorico.

I don't have great feelings about M&F but at the moment I'm more worried about *RedneckPhoenix *since if he keeps blocking Stryke it's going to get either me or kokorico killed, and he made it pretty clear he wasn't going to listen to us. If he's town, he's negative utility right now and if he's mafia, I suspect his role is a lot more dangerous to us than whatever M&F's role might be. 

I thought about suggesting I team up with Stryke to healclashvig RNP tonight but that obviously wouldn't work since RNP would just block either one of us, but if we lynch RNP and vig M&F there's presumably nothing they can do to stop us. Just throwing that out there as a suggestion.


----------



## mewtini

Vipera Magnifica said:


> vig M&F


we don't have a vig as far as we know, but i'm becoming increasingly uncertain of who i want to lynch today (kinda because of what you said) even though i kind of only joined this wagon for science hah


----------



## mewtini

but like on the other hand RNP isn't confirmed mafia in the way that MF is, so that should also be more important? idk, so ... i guess someone gets the task of pitching either one to me


----------



## mewtini

mewtini said:


> we don't have a vig as far as we know, but i'm becoming increasingly uncertain of who i want to lynch today (kinda because of what you said) even though i kind of only joined this wagon for science hah


lol on the other hand, IF there is a vig out there who's just been avoiding shooting because they weren't certain of someone's alignment, MF would not be a bad shot. but given the late eifie's trope i doubt there's anyone are you there, god? out there.


----------



## Vipera Magnifica

mewtini said:


> we don't have a vig as far as we know, but i'm becoming increasingly uncertain of who i want to lynch today (kinda because of what you said) even though i kind of only joined this wagon for science hah


No... heal clash vig... as in Stryke and I purposely try to get a heal clash on M&F

Come to think of it that would also prove I'm not the nanobots doctor so two birds with one stone I guess


----------



## Stryke

mewtini said:


> we don't have a vig as far as we know, but i'm becoming increasingly uncertain of who i want to lynch today (kinda because of what you said) even though i kind of only joined this wagon for science hah


i think by vig he means me and him healclash MF


----------



## Stryke

ftr im down for that plan. maybe koko could coinflip between one of us to heal as well, just in case theres another roleblocker or other night action fuckery that threatens to derail this?


----------



## Ottercopter

I could get behind that idea, but doesn't admitting that you won't protect each other so openly kinda paint a target on your back for the mafia?


----------



## Stryke

Ottercopter said:


> I could get behind that idea, but doesn't admitting that you won't protect each other so openly kinda paint a target on your back for the mafia?


Unless thats exactly what we want them to think


----------



## mewtini

Ottercopter said:


> I could get behind that idea, but doesn't admitting that you won't protect each other so openly kinda paint a target on your back for the mafia?


this is what worries me

also, i'm sorry, just didn't realize that's what y'all meant. do you think that the plan is actually better than lynching RNP/MF (idk what order that should occur in)


----------



## Stryke

i do admit it does put koko at a bit of a risk if we try this because thered be no one backing em up and potentially healing them, so i guess it comes down to if eir cool with that


----------



## Stryke

Stryke said:


> i do admit it does put koko at a bit of a risk if we try this because thered be no one backing em up and potentially healing them, so i guess it comes down to if eir cool with that


im pretty sure i misused some pronouns in that sentence and i apologize


----------



## qenya

Ottercopter said:


> I could get behind that idea, but doesn't admitting that you won't protect each other so openly kinda paint a target on your back for the mafia?


yeah, in that case I should coinflip-heal one of them. (I might not actually be a doctor, but the mafia can't rely on that being the case.) I can always target kyeugh the night after if we don't have anything better to do.



Stryke said:


> i do admit it does put koko at a bit of a risk if we try this because thered be no one backing em up and potentially healing them, so i guess it comes down to if eir cool with that


Well how about this:

You heal M&F
VM coinflip-heals M&F or me
I coinflip-heal you or VM
All three of us have a chance of being healed (so the mafia can't safely target us), and we have a 50% shot at offing M&F

...or we could just lynch M&F on D5, which seems more straightforward and less risky


----------



## qenya

Stryke said:


> im pretty sure i misused some pronouns in that sentence and i apologize


"if e's cool with that"

otherwise you have excellent grammar, congratulations!


----------



## mewtini

yeah. i understand VM's point about wanting to switch to RNP, but i think regardless of what happens MF is going to get lynched pretty soon? i admittedly am kind of like, eep, about it because i feel like if we wait she'll show up and confuse us more lmfao and i'm nervous about moving away from a more-or-less confirmed wolf (especially now that we've got conversation going about next steps)

so i'm still wondering if it's really worth the healcircus when idk how much we lose by not lynching MF today, and putting it off until d5, assuming that we don't get distracted away from it


Vipera Magnifica said:


> Come to think of it that would also prove I'm not the nanobots doctor so two birds with one stone I guess


this is the main benefit i see but i also don't know if general sentiment is skeptical of you there? idk

(as i post this i'm just seeing koko's plan above, which makes sense, but even e seems to imply waiting for a d5 lynch makes more sense right now?)


----------



## qenya

"healcircus" is an excellent word, thank you



mewtini said:


> (as i post this i'm just seeing koko's plan above, which makes sense, but even e seems to imply waiting for a d5 lynch makes more sense right now?)


yeah, I'll do my bit if requested, but it seems like a lot of moving parts that could go wrong compared to just lynching. especially if we turn out to be wrong about either M&F or RNP and mislynch, er, "mishealclashvig" them


----------



## Vipera Magnifica

kokorico said:


> Well how about this:
> 
> You heal M&F
> VM coinflip-heals M&F or me
> I coinflip-heal you or VM
> All three of us have a chance of being healed (so the mafia can't safely target us), and we have a 50% shot at offing M&F


I had my doubts about leaving ourselves open but this seems like a good solution for that. I don't think mafia will take a gamble on trying to kill someone they know has a 50% chance of being protected.

I'll admit waiting to lynch M&F D5 is a safer strategy but taking a more proactive approach could be essential if the mafia continues to only go after the active players. Killing M&F tonight would give us one free extra lynch.

Either way I'm just down to go along with whatever everyone else decides.


----------



## qenya

(ftr, I don't really care which of M&F and RNP we go for first. both seem balance-of-probability scum to me as I said above)


----------



## mewtini

i am now kind of on-board with genuinely considering RNP for today's lynch for the reasons described, though, so if anyone feels strongly about that either way, i'm interested in hearing their thoughts. as long as we do get MF at some point (for example: tomorrow) i don't really care, but rn i think the vig is maybe risky? i mean it's possible MF has killing power. but it's also very possible that she doesn't.

- i'm only now seeing what VM posted above me though, and i think i get it a bit more now



kokorico said:


> mishealclashvig


hahaha


----------



## qenya

kokorico said:


> otherwise you have excellent grammar, congratulations!


just realised I should have said "your grammar is impeckable"

goddammit


----------



## Vipera Magnifica

I am going out kayaking and will not be around for EoD but if we lynch RNP then I'm down for the nonmishealclashcircusvig plan; if it just ends up being M&F we lynch then same strat as last night, okay? Stryke you coinflip-heal either koko and I and we each heal someone else


----------



## Butterfree

nonmishealclashcircusvigging is a great word



Spoiler: Full vote history



*Ottercopter* votes *M&F* (#3655)
*mewtini* votes *M&F* (#3656)
*Herbe* votes *M&F* (#3657)
*rari_teh* votes *M&F* (#3687)
*Panini* votes *M&F* (#3695)
*Seshas* votes *M&F* (#3701)
*kyeugh* votes *M&F* (#3717)
*kyeugh* votes *RedneckPhoenix* (#3802)
*mewtini* votes *RedneckPhoenix* (#3821)
*kokorico* votes *M&F* (#3822)
*Vipera Magnifica* votes *RedneckPhoenix* (#3825)





Spoiler: Active votes



*Herbe* votes *M&F* (#3657)
*Ottercopter* votes *M&F* (#3655)
*Panini* votes *M&F* (#3695)
*Seshas* votes *M&F* (#3701)
*Vipera Magnifica* votes *RedneckPhoenix* (#3825)
*kokorico* votes *M&F* (#3822)
*kyeugh* votes *RedneckPhoenix* (#3802)
*mewtini* votes *RedneckPhoenix* (#3821)
*rari_teh* votes *M&F* (#3687)



Vote counts:
*M&F* (6) (Herbe, Ottercopter, Panini, Seshas, kokorico, rari_teh)
*RedneckPhoenix* (3) (Vipera Magnifica, kyeugh, mewtini)
No vote (16) (Mawile, Flora, M&F, JackPK, I liek Squirtles, Stryke, serimachi, Negrek, RedneckPhoenix, Mr. Ultracool, IndigoEmmy, Odie_Pie, Eifie, Keldeo, Mist1422, Boquise)


----------



## rari_teh

mewtini said:


> how do you think this would benefit VM? on one hand making the fakeclaim could maybe make sense if he didn't know someone like skylar - who gets info upon being targeted - would come along, but beyond that i don't really see the value in it just yet. maybe it's a silly thing for me to townread VM for, but i can't see a reason why it would make sense for wolf!VM to do this


On D1, we were already discussing how the TV Tropes page for Deadly Doctor hinted more at a mafia-aligned role, or a 3p at best. If he indeed got Deadly Doctor because it is “not mafia” (yet not town-aligned), he could’ve thought that it would be risky to declare so lest somebody speculates correctly that Deadly Doctor isn’t town-aligned.

This is all just spec btw; I don’t necessarily subscribe to this view.


mewtini said:


> why mist over RNP or an inactive (i.e. serimachi)?


I still think that if we swap with RNP we can have a good tool at our hands. Serimachi strikes me as someone who’s trying to be helpful, yet has little idea of what’s going on and can’t really keep up with all the posts tbh


Ottercopter said:


> we could swap with him right before lynching him at like 23:59 or the like


We couldn’t. I asked Butterfree if I could swap with a dead person, she said that a necroswap would always fail.


RedneckPhoenix said:


> 'ey fuck you otter


Thinking about the other TV Tropes mafia, I daresay Otter might be a walking dead man as of now


Ottercopter said:


> Too late now, but I think some misconception woulda been okay. The less info we give the mafia for free, the better.


Yes, some misconception would be super okay. I believe this was more out of naïveté than anything, but I’m kinda bugged by the fact that Ultracool is handing out info about the bodyswapper on a platter since yesterDay.


kokorico said:


> *Stryke's fakeclaim doesn't make sense.* He didn't know that RNP targeted him, so claiming to have healed Eifie drew attention to him for no gain. He should have claimed to heal someone completely different, which would have been unfalsifiable.


Mafia!Stryke could’ve claimed to have healed Eifie to stir shit and divert attention to pointless speculation tbh.


Vipera Magnifica said:


> nonmishealclashcircusvig


I said this before and I’ll say this again: I fucking love the English language lol


----------



## rari_teh

Also after kokorico’s XXL post, I think we should all agree that the game is spiritually over, kokorico won and everybody else lost

At the very least that was deserving of the Key to the City. Who’s the mayor of Troperville anyway?


----------



## Keldeo

I had a dream that we tried to lynch MF, but instead Odie_pie died again. ?_?

Not fully caught up, but eh, I kind of want to give RNP another day here? Not out of him being like ultra towny - I think it’s plausible that he’d behave the way that he has as either alignment, since blocking Stryke has an obvious agenda but revealing as mafia roleblocker is like pretty bad when he could just block an info role silently. I’m just not super swayed by the cases that I’ve seen. We’re trying to lynch mafia, not people who are behaving in anti-town ways.

In any case I feel like trying to heal clash vig on MF is less likely to succeed than just lynching her purely because there are so many unknowns in the night phase.


----------



## rari_teh

Keldeo said:


> I had a dream that we tried to lynch MF, but instead Odie_pie died again. ?_?


_♪ ’cause this is thriller, thriller night… ♫_


----------



## mewtini

Keldeo said:


> Not fully caught up, but eh, I kind of want to give RNP another day here [...] We’re trying to lynch mafia, not people who are behaving in anti-town ways.
> In any case I feel like trying to heal clash vig on MF is less likely to succeed than just lynching her purely because there are so many unknowns in the night phase.


these are my reservations as well. on the other hand, i mean, anti-town behavior could ... indicate mafia? i'm not advocating to lynch him BECAUSE i think he's town that's acting in an anti-town way, i just think that that's the worst-case scenario in the event of a mislynch

also lol RNP has only ever shown up when he gets FoS'ed (which i also regard as potentially scummy) and i kind of am excited for a growing wagon to draw him out a bit more over the next four hours or so

the last sentence i quoted is why i'm :/ about attempting to vig though. so honestly maybe i'm leaning towards going for RNP and then d5 MF


rari_teh said:


> If he indeed got Deadly Doctor because it is “not mafia” (yet not town-aligned), he could’ve thought that it would be risky to declare so lest somebody speculates correctly that Deadly Doctor isn’t town-aligned.
> 
> This is all just spec btw; I don’t necessarily subscribe to this view.


gotcha. tbh i think a 3p doctor makes zero sense, so i've just thrown that out completely


rari_teh said:


> I still think that if we swap with RNP we can have a good tool at our hands. Serimachi strikes me as someone who’s trying to be helpful, yet has little idea of what’s going on and can’t really keep up with all the posts tbh


so what you think of the RNP lynchtalk, haha. i have no desire to go after serimachi, just to be clear, i was just trying to figure out what your rationale is with mist since it seems like you're just using the inactive lynching rhetoric i used d1.

i also meant to ask why not lynch flora


rari_teh said:


> Mafia!Stryke could’ve claimed to have healed Eifie to stir shit and divert attention to pointless speculation tbh.


he could have, but i'm not inclined to think this given how stryke went about wondering about VM's alignment in earlygame. i don't think this makes all that much sense, especially if you look at the juncture during which he claimed to have healed her, iirc


----------



## mewtini

Keldeo said:


> revealing as mafia roleblocker is like pretty bad when he could just block an info role silently.


also true, but i think it's just as likely that he was told to reveal when it was becoming more and more clear that skylar was considering a reveal (esp when she was beginning to get pushed on by a few people to do so). revealing preemptively looks far more towny than being outed


----------



## mewtini

basically i know that in the case that w!RNP was told to roleclaim, it could seem weird that he's openly blocking a helpful town PR but i also think that it could have been done to sway everyone into giving him the benefit of the doubt because a) he's playing loose-cannon, and b) he usually plays loose-cannon so those who've played with him before are more likely to disregard it. but idk, like, i went back and read a few games with him in it because it was bothering me so much and i still feel weird about it!!


----------



## rari_teh

mewtini said:


> i also meant to ask why not lynch flora


They have a good reason to be inactive =(
(does anyone know how her cat is going btw?)



mewtini said:


> he could have, but i'm not inclined to think this given how stryke went about wondering about VM's alignment in earlygame. i don't think this makes all that much sense, especially if you look at the juncture during which he claimed to have healed her, iirc


I did an ISO and found nothing wrt Stryke wondering about VM. Could you give me a refresher?


----------



## rari_teh

rari_teh said:


> (does anyone know how her cat is going btw?)


how *their cat is going. Sorry for the misgender =(


----------



## mewtini

rari_teh said:


> They have a good reason to be inactive =(


they do but also i'm like. idk. if you are just trying to inactive-lynch, flora makes more sense than mist, unless you think that mist is lurking or something - that's what i'm trying to get at here



rari_teh said:


> I did an ISO and found nothing wrt Stryke wondering about VM. Could you give me a refresher?


yeah, though i don't remember it in detail. earlyish on in the game (one of stryke's first serious entrances) he basically said that it was weird that so much was happening to VM and implied that VM's jokeclaim (THE claim, the one where he joked about learning the entire mafia roster and having unlimited vigkills) could have been intended to rile people up

i disagreed with it but it was also like, the first real original thought we'd had in a long time, and i remember it being pretty like gently worded? stryke hasn't seemed to be engaged in stirring shit up - like obviously he could be lying but ... idk,


----------



## mewtini

mewtini said:


> stryke hasn't seemed to be engaged in stirring shit up - like obviously he could be lying but ... idk,


in the sense that, if that's been his game, he's been doing it more subtly than fakeclaiming a heal would have done imo


----------



## IndigoClaudia

Can i be involved in "stirring shit up?"


----------



## rari_teh

mewtini said:


> in the sense that, if that's been his game, he's been doing it more subtly than fakeclaiming a heal would have done imo


I see where you’re going… Eh.



mewtini said:


> they do but also i'm like. idk. if you are just trying to inactive-lynch, flora makes more sense than mist, unless you think that mist is lurking or something - that's what i'm trying to get at here


I am indeed leaning to believe that Mist is lurking. Might as well be wrong.

btw I gotta comment that, for some reason, my brain insists in calling Mist “Matt” and I’m honestly afraid of accidentally calling them that name and it turning out to be _right_ lol


----------



## rari_teh

rari_teh said:


> Eh.


“Eh” as in “Eh, fair point” tbh


----------



## mewtini

rari_teh said:


> “Eh” as in “Eh, fair point” tbh


haha it's ok to disagree! it's possible it's a slip up or something, but i don't personally really see a reason to believe it is


----------



## Ottercopter

rari_teh said:


> We couldn’t. I asked Butterfree if I could swap with a dead person, she said that a necroswap would always fail.


Got it! I think i misunderstood a mechanic about this. That's too bad. Should we swap a little more amongst ourselves, or let it be now? I'm sorry I keep asking, it's just that Kokorico brought up that e thinks I should do a few more swaps to trip things up (my stance, personally), but Rari_teh and Mr. Ultracool seemed to be okay with keeping it on me for the night, and with all the info revealed about it and all the other discussions going on, I can't even tell if it'll make a difference anymore???

Getting to that overthinking point where I'm wondering if a mafia!RNP started everything a few pages back as a distraction. At the very least, it changed the flow of the conversation pretty strongly for a bit. Quick, is there anything else we were trying to figure out before EoD? We have plans for our healers, suspects for the next day phase... I think that should be it, right?


----------



## mewtini

Ottercopter said:


> We have plans for our healers, suspects for the next day phase... I think that should be it, right?


we still have like a few hours left don't we? i'm uneasy about the healers' plan since


Keldeo said:


> I feel like trying to heal clash vig on MF is less likely to succeed than just lynching her purely because there are so many unknowns in the night phase.


----------



## IndigoClaudia

Who should i vote for?


----------



## RedneckPhoenix

it was late and i had a long day. sorry i kinda melted down last night


----------



## Herbe

i feel like all this discussion is kinda swirling around my head.  like. y'all seem to have Plans and Such for hypothetically lynching rnp and healclashcircusvigging mf, but idk if having Long ass plans necessarily means that they're better plans than just taking the simple approach of d4 lynching a (98%) confirmed wolf, d5 lynching an anti-town likely wolf wildcard? although I do admit that rnp seems mechanically more dangerous/anti-town, so that reasoning lands well with me.

just wanted to voice my concerns there a bit. I'll back up whatever towncore wants to do tbh but if we lynch rnp today then the instant that d5 chat opens up im re-seating my mf vote so we dont forget about it.

(also re:rnp, nothing is meant personal my dude :(( i hope your day has been better than yesterday tbh)


----------



## mewtini

Herbe said:


> just wanted to voice my concerns there a bit. I'll back up whatever towncore wants to do tbh but if we lynch rnp today then the instant that d5 chat opens up im re-seating my mf vote so we dont forget about it.


this is also my plan. basically the summarized version is just

- rnp/mf are our two leads
- mf is probably actually mafia, we don't know about RNP but he seems possibly scummy
- if we lynch rnp then vigging mf could save us a lynch and confirm that the healers are legit (+ VM is indeed a white mage)
- if we lynch mf today instead then rnp has to get vetted somehow
- either way, mf probably gone


----------



## mewtini

but i think i'm of the mindset that the vig might not be worth it? :x

btw i want to say for accountability's sake that i'm probably going to sit on the rnp wagon for a bit, but i don't know if i'll see it through. please. i don't want to get FoS'ed for possibly wagonjumping

i also would rather the rnp wagon not immediately dissolve, because i'm at least hoping to put enough pressure on that even if we end up lynching mf instead, we've at least learned something (like whether or not to actually pursue rnp in earnest toMorrow)


----------



## Herbe

mewtini said:


> i also would rather the rnp wagon not immediately dissolve, because i'm at least hoping to put enough pressure on that even if we end up lynching mf instead, we've at least learned something (like whether or not to actually pursue rnp in earnest toMorrow)


i can vibe with this reasoning tbh. 
*rnp*


----------



## mewtini

Herbe said:


> d5 lynching an anti-town likely wolf wildcard?


the thing is that if rnp doesn't end up seeming any less scummy to me, i think the cost-benefit analysis actually does favor lynching rnp now and mf later; a badly-targeted roleblock could severely fuck us up going into n/d5 and we probably won't have much confirmation/faith that rnp will act less loose-cannon.

in contrast, i don't think killing mf right now saves us from anything, as long as we stay the course and do get her soon


----------



## kyeugh

i think i kind of just feel like mf is not talking and we're not really learning anything from lynching her today that we wouldn't by doing it tomorrow. scum is not going to win the game overnight; if anything she might speak tomorrow and give us more to go on.  however since she's basically sorted i'm not really pressed about lynching her asap.  that's the main reason i felt eh about her before.  i think in the absence of rari's read on mf i would probably be railing on rnp right now but think both wagons are defensible so eh i'm not going to press too hard


----------



## Panini

Hm.



Keldeo said:


> Not fully caught up, but eh, I kind of want to give RNP another day here? Not out of him being like ultra towny - I think it’s plausible that he’d behave the way that he has as either alignment, since blocking Stryke has an obvious agenda but revealing as mafia roleblocker is like pretty bad when he could just block an info role silently. I’m just not super swayed by the cases that I’ve seen. We’re trying to lynch mafia, not people who are behaving in anti-town ways.
> 
> In any case I feel like trying to heal clash vig on MF is less likely to succeed than just lynching her purely because there are so many unknowns in the night phase.


I'm kind of in the same mind about this. I don't think it's a bad idea to try and use the healer clash to our advantage but if we've been rolling around the idea that Eifie died because there's something unknown out there we haven't accoutned for I'm not entirely sure why that logic doesn't also apply to offing M&F in this way being rather uncertain? Which is ironic because I think we can agree at this point that M&F is the more certain hit.

Something I've been thinking about is maybe this is a more valuable tact to pick off one of the more inactive slots? They're not really a topic I think any wants to spend a day lynch on because it'll basically kill discussion and just doesn't feel good but equally I think we need to have some way of resolving uncertainty in those slots and don't really want to be in situation where we're on like day 7 and still have no idea about them.


----------



## kyeugh

Panini said:


> Hm.
> 
> I'm kind of in the same mind about this. I don't think it's a bad idea to try and use the healer clash to our advantage but if we've been rolling around the idea that Eifie died because there's something unknown out there we haven't accoutned for I'm not entirely sure why that logic doesn't also apply to offing M&F in this way being rather uncertain? Which is ironic because I think we can agree at this point that M&F is the more certain hit.
> 
> Something I've been thinking about is maybe this is a more valuable tact to pick off one of the more inactive slots? They're not really a topic I think any wants to spend a day lynch on because it'll basically kill discussion and just doesn't feel good but equally I think we need to have some way of resolving uncertainty in those slots and don't really want to be in situation where we're on like day 7 and still have no idea about them.


i kind of just don't really see how this ever gets resolved tbh.  like i feel like the limiting factor on our understanding here is not Time The Suspects Have Spent Alive but rather the information they're willing to divulge and i don't think they're going to willingly offer that information now or soon if they haven't already.  like what would you actually be waiting for before feeling fully comfortable with an rnp/mf lynch in this scenario


----------



## mewtini

kyeugh said:


> i think i kind of just feel like mf is not talking and we're not really learning anything from lynching her today that we wouldn't by doing it tomorrow. scum is not going to win the game overnight; if anything she might speak tomorrow and give us more to go on.  however since she's basically sorted i'm not really pressed about lynching her asap.  that's the main reason i felt eh about her before.  i think in the absence of rari's read on mf i would probably be railing on rnp right now but think both wagons are defensible so eh i'm not going to press too hard


this is basically how i feel. i didn't think an mf lynch was pointless before, but now i don't think it matters (like, if it did, wouldn't we be in lylo already?) the one thing in favor of mf over rnp is that she has a copread against her, and rnp doesn't, but see point (a)



Panini said:


> maybe this is a more valuable tact to pick off one of the more inactive slots?


like, maybe, but then which one? that's pretty much just seri (who i TR for now), flora (who is the closest we have to a real inactive), and ... i think that's it?

also we'd lose the rnp pressure that's getting put on right now and i feel really meh about letting go of that


----------



## Mr. Ultracool

mewtini said:


> i remembered that, i just put you in the swap category since you aren't (?) an MI anymore ...


It's the other way around, actually. I am currently a MI and am no longer a Bodysnatcher.


----------



## Panini

Just to be clear the only reason I'm not floating switch RNP to healervigclash is because I kind of think despite what kokorico's talked about that he is a in all likelihood just a regular role blocker and would stop that from happening, regardless of alignment


----------



## mewtini

and the inactives are always going to be a question mark, and by that logic we'd have to pick them off over the course of a couple days anyway. honestly another concept is doing the experimental healclashvig on one of them lol if we REALLY really wanted but. :/ it would be different i think if we were discussing backing off of an MF lynch altogether but that isn't the case. either way i think we just need more rnp info and i don't feel good enough to let things go without getting to hear more of substance from him


----------



## mewtini

Mr. Ultracool said:


> It's the other way around, actually. I am currently a MI and am no longer a Bodysnatcher.


oooh! oops! idk how i misunderstood that, thank you


----------



## Panini

kyeugh said:


> i kind of just don't really see how this ever gets resolved tbh.  like i feel like the limiting factor on our understanding here is not Time The Suspects Have Spent Alive but rather the information they're willing to divulge and i don't think they're going to willingly offer that information now or soon if they haven't already.  like what would you actually be waiting for before feeling fully comfortable with an rnp/mf lynch in this scenario


Sorry, I don't really get what you're saying here?


----------



## Keldeo

Some other ways we could attempt to resolve the more inactive people is to body swap with them, or inspect them, although Rari did say it comes with a disclaimer about roles that could get wrong inspections.



mewtini said:


> the one thing in favor of mf over rnp is that she has a copread against her


I mean, I think this is an extremely major thing, haha. I'm not really opposed to *RNP* pressure though.


----------



## mewtini

Keldeo said:


> I mean, I think this is an extremely major thing, haha. I'm not really opposed to *RNP* pressure though.


it IS a major thing, but i said that in the exact context of "who do we lynch _first_" not who do we lynch at all? i agree with everyone else that MF is pretty much a locked kill/lynch because of that


----------



## kyeugh

Panini said:


> Sorry, I don't really get what you're saying here?


you're saying that you're not fully comfortable lynching someone until the mystery surrounding them is resolved bc you don't want to end up still scratching your head about it Days later, right?  if i'm interpreting your post correctly and that is what you're saying, then what i'm saying is that i feel like you may very well be waiting for that to be resolved forever and i don't think we should wait for it before considering lynches


----------



## Panini

mewtini said:


> like, maybe, but then which one? that's pretty much just seri (who i TR for now), flora (who is the closest we have to a real inactive), and ... i think that's it?


If you have a mo could you explain seri out a bit more? (or if you've already talked about it would you mind directing me sorry  ' ') Thoughts about mist?


----------



## rari_teh

I'm on a touchscreen, so I'm already sorry for the upcoming typos.


Ottercopter said:


> Got it! I think i misunderstood a mechanic about this. That's too bad. Should we swap a little more amongst ourselves, or let it be now? I'm sorry I keep asking, it's just that Kokorico brought up that e thinks I should do a few more swaps to trip things up (my stance, personally), but Rari_teh and Mr. Ultracool seemed to be okay with keeping it on me for the night, and with all the info revealed about it and all the other discussions going on, I can't even tell if it'll make a difference anymore???


I think I'd also rather have this role chucked around a little more tbh, but you do you


mewtini said:


> don't want to get FoS'ed for possibly wagonjumping


I wouldn't FoS you over that and I doubt anyone else would tbh
It's pretty much established at this point that you're town


----------



## IndigoClaudia

THE GANGS ALL HERE
(RIP eifie)


----------



## IndigoClaudia

Count me in as an extra vote to *whoever has the most votes right now*


----------



## kyeugh

IndigoEmmy said:


> Count me in as an extra vote to *whoever has the most votes right now*


 butterfree has a script that counts votes automatically, so this is probably not a good idea ftr.


----------



## Butterfree

Spoiler: Full vote history



*Ottercopter* votes *M&F* (#3655)
*mewtini* votes *M&F* (#3656)
*Herbe* votes *M&F* (#3657)
*rari_teh* votes *M&F* (#3687)
*Panini* votes *M&F* (#3695)
*Seshas* votes *M&F* (#3701)
*kyeugh* votes *M&F* (#3717)
*kyeugh* votes *RedneckPhoenix* (#3802)
*mewtini* votes *RedneckPhoenix* (#3821)
*kokorico* votes *M&F* (#3822)
*Vipera Magnifica* votes *RedneckPhoenix* (#3825)
*Herbe* votes *RedneckPhoenix* (#3869)
*Keldeo* votes *RedneckPhoenix* (#3880)





Spoiler: Active votes



*Herbe* votes *RedneckPhoenix* (#3869)
*Keldeo* votes *RedneckPhoenix* (#3880)
*Ottercopter* votes *M&F* (#3655)
*Panini* votes *M&F* (#3695)
*Seshas* votes *M&F* (#3701)
*Vipera Magnifica* votes *RedneckPhoenix* (#3825)
*kokorico* votes *M&F* (#3822)
*kyeugh* votes *RedneckPhoenix* (#3802)
*mewtini* votes *RedneckPhoenix* (#3821)
*rari_teh* votes *M&F* (#3687)



Vote counts:
*RedneckPhoenix* (5) (Herbe, Keldeo, Vipera Magnifica, kyeugh, mewtini)
*M&F* (5) (Ottercopter, Panini, Seshas, kokorico, rari_teh)
No vote (15) (Mawile, Flora, M&F, JackPK, I liek Squirtles, Stryke, serimachi, Negrek, RedneckPhoenix, Mr. Ultracool, IndigoEmmy, Odie_Pie, Eifie, Mist1422, Boquise)


----------



## Butterfree

In other words, there is not a person who has the most votes right now, so you're going to have to pick.


----------



## mewtini

Panini said:


> If you have a mo could you explain seri out a bit more? (or if you've already talked about it would you mind directing me sorry  ' ') Thoughts about mist?


np! my seri read is very gentle haha, i was starkly neutral on them but am now choosing to lightly TR them because MF tried to campaign a seri lynch (very briefly) so if MF is mafia as we think, then seri is probably not mafia (especially bc there were other inactives MF could have chosen)

no thoughts on mist tbh but i don't think that an earnest mist discussion atm makes sense in light of everything else we have to go on


----------



## Butterfree

kyeugh said:


> butterfree has a script that counts votes automatically, so this is probably not a good idea ftr.


I register the actual votes manually; otherwise everyone making typos, or calling RedneckPhoenix RNP, would not have their votes counted. The script just tallies them up.


----------



## kyeugh

Butterfree said:


> I register the actual votes manually; otherwise everyone making typos, or calling RedneckPhoenix RNP, would not have their votes counted. The script just tallies them up.


oooh.  good point!  what happens in cases like rari's tierlist where there's a bunch of bolded names that aren't intended as votes? :'D


mewtini said:


> np! my seri read is very gentle haha, i was starkly neutral on them but am now choosing to lightly TR them because MF tried to campaign a seri lynch (very briefly) so if MF is mafia as we think, then seri is probably not mafia (especially bc there were other inactives MF could have chosen)


this post feels like my brain when i'm playing sudoku.


----------



## mewtini

kyeugh said:


> this post feels like my brain when i'm playing sudoku.


lol i'm so sorry


----------



## Butterfree

kyeugh said:


> oooh.  good point!  what happens in cases like rari's tierlist where there's a bunch of bolded names that aren't intended as votes? :'D


Again, because I register votes manually, so long as it's comprehensible to a human (me) when you intend to vote for somebody, you're fine.


----------



## Keldeo

The automated vote counting scripts that I've seen require a special formatting, like "Vote: Username", to distinguish from non-vote bolding. Or I guess you could ban bolding names outside of voting, hehe.



Butterfree said:


> *RedneckPhoenix* (5) (Herbe, Keldeo, Vipera Magnifica, kyeugh, mewtini)


If RNP is actually mafia, I would townread pretty much everyone on this wagon even more than currently. In some sense this wagon is "fake" because MF was pretty much always going to be today's lynch, but I think most of these people were actually pushing for RNP's eventual death.


----------



## Herbe

Butterfree said:


> so long as it's comprehensible to a human (me)


butterfree is secretly an android


----------



## Ottercopter

Keldeo said:


> Some other ways we could attempt to resolve the more inactive people is to body swap with them, or inspect them, although Rari did say it comes with a disclaimer about roles that could get wrong inspections.


The part that bothers me about swapping with an inactive is that I'm worried it'll probably become the end of our swapping unless they suddenly become active again. 



rari_teh said:


> I think I'd also rather have this role chucked around a little more tbh, but you do you


Neat. Well then, it's not me, it's you.

...Still torn about RNP and probably gonna stay that way for a while, not gonna lie. I see what you mean about RNP as mafia revealing more info and getting rid of the threat of an unreliable roleblocker, but I also sorta wonder about a scenario where MF is the main killer right now. She didn't post much, but she DID keep up with the thread, which is what I sort of expect from whoever leads the mafia right now. So I wonder if the sort of person the mafia would target would change if she died, or if maybe the next in line would be an inactive and we'd even get no death the next day. ...Which is also what a correct heal could do, admittedly.


----------



## kyeugh

Keldeo said:


> If RNP is actually mafia, I would townread pretty much everyone on this wagon even more than currently. In some sense this wagon is "fake" because MF was pretty much always going to be today's lynch, but I think most of these people were actually pushing for RNP's eventual death.


 what if he’s not?


----------



## Ottercopter

That's deeeeeefinitely assuming a lot, I know. it's just something I've been thinking about because I see good reasons to lynch both of them.


----------



## mewtini

Ottercopter said:


> but she DID keep up with the thread


i mean. has she? she's kinda been in and out i feel like, and she hasn't been on in almost a week
i get being torn though. :-/


----------



## kyeugh

Ottercopter said:


> ...Still torn about RNP and probably gonna stay that way for a while, not gonna lie. I see what you mean about RNP as mafia revealing more info and getting rid of the threat of an unreliable roleblocker, but I also sorta wonder about a scenario where MF is the main killer right now. She didn't post much, but she DID keep up with the thread, which is what I sort of expect from whoever leads the mafia right now. So I wonder if the sort of person the mafia would target would change if she died, or if maybe the next in line would be an inactive and we'd even get no death the next day. ...Which is also what a correct heal could do, admittedly.


this is interesting but i don’t think it matters in the end tbh. if any of those things are true they won’t be true in a predictable way, so the time we lynch mf won’t have much bearing


----------



## mewtini

also lynching MF does have the infoyield of those townreads mentioned, but i feel like MF is so locked in that that yield doesn't even really matter to me now (as far as exactly when we get it)


----------



## RedneckPhoenix

i'm willing to die and show my flip if it means giving more info to the town to work with going forwars


----------



## RedneckPhoenix

i can't roleblock a mafia read if i'm the only remaining mafia read :p


----------



## rari_teh

Keldeo said:


> If RNP is actually mafia, I would townread pretty much everyone on this wagon even more than currently. In some sense this wagon is "fake" because MF was pretty much always going to be today's lynch, but I think most of these people were actually pushing for RNP's eventual death.


Yeah… But I feel like we also should take into account that if Mawile was telling the truth and there indeed are out-group mafia who flip mafia, then pushing for a mafia vote isn’t necessarily indicative of being town. Mist was the first to vote for Mawile yesterDay, but I don’t townread her for that. It’s not you, it’s me.


----------



## kyeugh

hmmmmmmm.


----------



## rari_teh

RedneckPhoenix said:


> i can't roleblock a mafia read if i'm the only remaining mafia read :p


You could roleblock semi-randomly until deaths stop happening tbh


----------



## Stryke

mewtini said:


> stryke hasn't seemed to be engaged in stirring shit up - like obviously he could be lying but ... idk,


Would like to say for the record that stirring shit up is one of my least favorite pastimes


----------



## mewtini

rari_teh said:


> Yeah… But I feel like we also should take into account that if Mawile was telling the truth and there indeed are out-group mafia who flip mafia, then pushing for a mafia vote isn’t necessarily indicative of being town


i wouldn't think that a roleblocker would be hidden outgroup tbh


----------



## kyeugh

Stryke said:


> Would like to say for the record that stirring shit up is one of my least favorite pastimes


disgusting and unsanitary.


----------



## Stryke

Btw work extended their hours so no guarantees I'll be around for EoD


----------



## Panini

kyeugh said:


> you're saying that you're not fully comfortable lynching someone until the mystery surrounding them is resolved bc you don't want to end up still scratching your head about it Days later, right?  if i'm interpreting your post correctly and that is what you're saying, then what i'm saying is that i feel like you may very well be waiting for that to be resolved forever and i don't think we should wait for it before considering lynches


The point is less that I think we should wait longer for the RNP/Stryke/Koko situation to resolve itself (because you're right, it like, won't) and more that I believe that there's a chance for healerclashvig scenario on M&F to go wrong and cost us another day putting it right

I do think ultimately it's really just a question of "do you think potentially streamlining our resolution of killing these two slots is worth it for resolving the one that's been vaguely scummy over the one that's been checked red by a cop" and for me that's a no right now. Mostly because I think even though RNP's play has been obfuscating, I feel like he's been doing it without much intention.

But I think maybe if you think that intention is just for him to block doctors and rile stuff up at any cost even if that means getting himself killed then yeah, I get it. I just don't think that's very much in his playstyle. Imo at least.


----------



## Keldeo

rari_teh said:


> Yeah… But I feel like we also should take into account that if Mawile was telling the truth and there indeed are out-group mafia who flip mafia, then pushing for a mafia vote isn’t necessarily indicative of being town. Mist was the first to vote for Mawile yesterDay, but I don’t townread her for that. It’s not you, it’s me.


Yeah I agree, I guess I'm using shorthand for "mafia who know RNP is mafia". I'm not clearing anyone for voting Mawile, I see this as different from voting for Mawile because Mawile had a mechanical result against him and RNP just has a mechanical situation going on. 

i don't think @Ottercopter gave you back the role, she said "it's not me, it's you" instead of "it's not you, it's me"


----------



## Ottercopter

rari_teh said:


> Yeah… But I feel like we also should take into account that if Mawile was telling the truth and there indeed are out-group mafia who flip mafia, then pushing for a mafia vote isn’t necessarily indicative of being town. Mist was the first to vote for Mawile yesterDay, but I don’t townread her for that. It’s not you, it’s me.


Damn, I had one job. It's not you, it's me.


----------



## mewtini

Panini said:


> The point is less that I think we should wait longer for the RNP/Stryke/Koko situation to resolve itself (because you're right, it like, won't) and more that I believe that there's a chance for healerclashvig scenario on M&F to go wrong and cost us another day putting it right


i mean, i agree, i'm not super into healerclashvig either :(. but what do you think then of an RNP lynch (or push) now and an MF lynch tomorrow?



Panini said:


> But I think maybe if you think that intention is just for him to block doctors and rile stuff up at any cost even if that means getting himself killed then yeah, I get it. I just don't think that's very much in his playstyle. Imo at least.


this is what i feel, yeah. i don't know his playstyle, i guess i'm kind of unconvinced so far by all the "that's just how he plays :)" that i've heard so far - skylar finally seeming to change her mind on pressing rnp is also why i became a bit more confident about it, since she knows him better than i do


----------



## Panini

I don't like
fully trust myself here and I'm definitely squinting a bit more given the claim that he just did Stryke like,
again last night when that's probably? Low utility.

I just think in a weird way that I don't equate him making those kinds of choices with necessarily not being in his town range. If that makes sense


----------



## Panini

mewtini said:


> np! my seri read is very gentle haha, i was starkly neutral on them but am now choosing to lightly TR them because MF tried to campaign a seri lynch (very briefly) so if MF is mafia as we think, then seri is probably not mafia (especially bc there were other inactives MF could have chosen)
> 
> no thoughts on mist tbh but i don't think that an earnest mist discussion atm makes sense in light of everything else we have to go on


thanks! and good catch on the seri thing I agree that's a valuable (if light) nug of interaction

re:mist pretty much was just aiming for your off-the-top-of-the-dome there so no worries, I only really mention mist because in my own mind I consider them in this kind of grouping, but it can definitely sit on the backburner


----------



## mewtini

Panini said:


> re:mist pretty much was just aiming for your off-the-top-of-the-dome there so no worries, I only really mention mist because in my own mind I consider them in this kind of grouping, but it can definitely sit on the backburner


yeah this is fair. i think the same q could also go for other inactives that went unmentioned by MF, like flora, but mist has been posting more/hasn't given rationale like flora has. so it makes sense


----------



## rari_teh

Keldeo said:


> Yeah I agree, I guess I'm using shorthand for "mafia who know RNP is mafia". I'm not clearing anyone for voting Mawile, I see this as different from voting for Mawile because Mawile had a mechanical result against him and RNP just has a mechanical situation going on.
> 
> i don't think @Ottercopter gave you back the role, she said "it's not me, it's you" instead of "it's not you, it's me"





Ottercopter said:


> Damn, I had one job. It's not you, it's me.


Now I can it's not you, it's me whoever I want to it's not you, it's me. How's that for a kartoshka?


----------



## Ottercopter

Keldeo said:


> i don't think @Ottercopter gave you back the role, she said "it's not me, it's you" instead of "it's not you, it's me"





rari_teh said:


> Now I can it's not you, it's me whoever I want to it's not you, it's me. How's that for a kartoshka?


Wait so if we quote multiple people and say "It's not you, it's me," who takes priority? ...Maybe you shouldn't actually answer that. 
Brb, gonna quite all 25 players in one post as a power pla-


----------



## rari_teh

Ottercopter said:


> Wait so if we quote multiple people and say "It's not you, it's me," who takes priority? ...Maybe you shouldn't actually answer that.


Exactly ;) only Butterfree knows!


----------



## Ottercopter

Butterfree having to read through our nonsense like


----------



## mewtini

Ottercopter said:


> Butterfree having to read through our nonsense like
> View attachment 451


the fucking sound i just made seeing that. lol. i need to get more sleep


----------



## mewtini

i know we have like an hourish but the votes are still tied up, aren't they. :x


----------



## rari_teh

Yep... Guess we're leaving it to the random gods. Makes me wonder if they're both mafia and that's why  nobody's jumping to defend anyone tbh


----------



## mewtini

rari_teh said:


> Yep... Guess we're leaving it to the random gods.


bruh we're probably jinxing it. watch everything turn upside down with 25 minutes left to EoD


----------



## RedneckPhoenix

i'll leave it up to y'all. won't vote for myself or for mf


----------



## mewtini

@kyeugh can you talk to me about your rationale between mf/rnp


----------



## mewtini

or anyone else can, too, i'm kind of ok letting it rand but now i feel bad and am hoping to get non-handwave opinions from people who've played with RNP before


----------



## Keldeo

Phoenix, what's your role trope?

I'm fine leaving it as it is for right now, I'll probably break the tie onto MF closer to EOD. I think she's more likely to flip mafia, we don't know her role and leaving her alive into the night would possibly allow her another action, and I don't want us embroiled in the "okay should we go for MF today or go for someone else" over and over.


----------



## kyeugh

Keldeo said:


> Phoenix, what's your role trope?


if his answer to this contradicts what i know, i will say so


----------



## kyeugh

mewtini said:


> @kyeugh can you talk to me about your rationale between mf/rnp


 not really a strong rationale tbh, which is why i’m not really pushing on him or asking anyone to join me. i’m just more interested in rnp’s flip, and i guess i think that the most likely outcome of not lynching mf is that she’s a vanilla goon, so nothing changes, whereas the most likely effect of leaving rnp alive is that a doctor gets cancelled, or alternatively nothing i guess in the event that he targets someone else. no shade but given his certainty that strike is scum i’m not really confident he hits a wolf.

so probably no real change no matter what, with a small chance for something bad to occur either way, but imo mf’s basically sorted and rnp isn’t.  and again i’m more curious about rnp’s flip so given all that i’d rather lynch him.


----------



## Mr. Ultracool

Vipera Magnifica said:


> heal clash vig


Healcircusclashvigging M&F, or at least trying to do so, seems like a relatively solid idea in my opinion. Thus, I'm

*lynching Redneckphoenix*


----------



## mewtini

so ... the rand tie is gone,



kyeugh said:


> not really a strong rationale tbh, which is why i’m not really pushing on him or asking anyone to join me. i’m just more interested in rnp’s flip, and i guess i think that the most likely outcome of not lynching mf is that she’s a vanilla goon, so nothing changes, whereas the most likely effect of leaving rnp alive is that a doctor gets cancelled, or alternatively nothing i guess in the event that he targets someone else. no shade but given his certainty that strike is scum i’m not really confident he hits a wolf.
> 
> so probably no real change no matter what, with a small chance for something bad to occur either way, but imo mf’s basically sorted and rnp isn’t.  and again i’m more curious about rnp’s flip so given all that i’d rather lynch him.


ok. thanks! agreed


----------



## kyeugh

mewtini said:


> so ... the rand tie is gone,


 it’ll go back if keldeo moves to mf as he says


----------



## mewtini

yeah. i just mean that now there won't be a decided lynch, which is what i thought keldeo was hoping to get out of it


----------



## Keldeo

Yeah nah I definitely want to go *MF* > RNP today. If you think they're both mafia and RNP has a stronger role, what is he doing rn openly trying not to save himself?


----------



## Keldeo

Like I do get the idea that MF could have a weaker role based on her mostly clamming up after the result, but I feel like that could also have been in order to avoid saying anything else about others that people could read into about their alignment.


----------



## kyeugh

Keldeo said:


> Yeah nah I definitely want to go *MF* > RNP today. If you think they're both mafia and RNP has a stronger role, what is he doing rn openly trying not to save himself?


 what else would he do?


----------



## mewtini

Keldeo said:


> Like I do get the idea that MF could have a weaker role based on her mostly clamming up after the result, but I feel like that could also have been in order to avoid saying anything else about others that people could read into about their alignment.


this is possible (though she also just hasn't shown up at all, like, online?) 



Keldeo said:


> what is he doing rn openly trying not to save himself?


i kinda feel like he might just not know how to. also if his trope is (mafia) alignment-indicative, he can't say anything


----------



## qenya

Reminder: As VM won't be back online before EOD, we may not be able to alter his stated plan of action (which was to try the healclashvig thing on M&F if RNP was lynched, or to reuse the N3 plan if M&F was lynched). So if you think the healclashvig should be avoided, you need to vote M&F.

Personally I am going with *RNP*, as I said I would earlier if the wagon materialised. I don't have a preference on the healclashvig (it might not work, in fact it probably won't, but it's unlikely to be actively harmful), but RNP is either mafia or has a role he may well use in an antitown way. M&F might be a more likely mafia flip but she is less of a "known dangerous" quantity. in ways other than helping mafia decide who to kill, I mean.



rari_teh said:


> Exactly ;) only Butterfree knows!


Can confirm. I've been keeping a spreadsheet just to make sure, and those last two swaps introduced enough divergence that there now exist plausible sets of mechanics that could result in any of the three of you now being the cop (or the swapper).


----------



## Keldeo

Actually vote for MF or defend himself more, because the wagons are really close so a vote like that from him could get the lynch to go onto her instead of him, which would let him get one more of his hypothetical stronger action off


----------



## mewtini

kyeugh said:


> what else would he do?


does the trope you're (seemingly?) aware of have any AI flavor/lean to it?


----------



## qenya

(I believe the votes now stand at RNP 6 / M&F 5)


----------



## mewtini

Keldeo said:


> Actually vote for MF or defend himself more, because the wagons are really close so a vote like that from him could get the lynch to go onto her instead of him, which would let him get one more of his hypothetical stronger action off


a real question: why hasn't he voted for MF? that also doesn't make me feel that great about anything


----------



## kyeugh

rnp DID get combative yesterday, and it just made things worse for him. i think (ostensibly) accepting your lynch near EOD doesn’t say anything about your alignment. a townie might roll over and die if they don’t think it particularly matters that they die; a wolf might do it because it elicits the reaction you’re having.


mewtini said:


> does the trope you're (seemingly?) aware of have any AI flavor/lean to it?


let me look at it again.


----------



## Keldeo

I guess I just don't... understand why we're wanting to lynch someone who has not been inspected mafia although he has mechanical weirdness going on, over someone who has been inspected mafia. I understand that MF is "solved" and RNP isn't, but I think lynching someone who is more likely to be mafia is always better than lynching a town to "solve them" when there are also mechanical ways that we can solve RNP that don't involve using one of our lynches. 

The healer vig might fail, and using all of our healers with it leaves the cop role open to be killed, although there's been obfuscation as to who will have the cop role tonight.


----------



## mewtini

kyeugh said:


> a wolf might do it because it elicits the reaction you’re having.


yes

honestly i think that all he could do is a) vote MF or b) reply with his trope



kokorico said:


> Reminder: As VM won't be back online before EOD, we may not be able to alter his stated plan of action (which was to try the healclashvig thing on M&F if RNP was lynched, or to reuse the N3 plan if M&F was lynched). So if you think the healclashvig should be avoided, you need to vote M&F.


VM has to check back in anyway to figure out who got lynched, right? couldn't we tag him to let him know if the plan changes/to halt a healclashvig - it's not like he 100% vanishes


----------



## kyeugh

Keldeo said:


> when there are also mechanical ways that we can solve RNP that don't involve using one of our lynches.


i guess i still don’t really understand what these are. or why we aren’t already using them if they exist. unless it’s a night thing?


----------



## kyeugh

kyeugh said:


> let me look at it again.


um, nothing really strong in one direction or the other, but in the sense that it would definitely not be a stretch at all to read it either way. so kind of useless tbh.


----------



## mewtini

kyeugh said:


> i guess i still don’t really understand what these are. or why we aren’t already using them if they exist. unless it’s a night thing?


cop or swap i think. but i think swapping to RNP is :^/// and then, yeah, cop is cop
isn't the likeliest outcome just that MF is a goon anyway?


----------



## Keldeo

If it's the will of the masses I'll go along with it but it's just like... it doesn't really make sense to me as a gameplan, hehe. Maybe you're right and they're both mafia and I'll be suitably chastened tomorrow.



kyeugh said:


> i guess i still don’t really understand what these are. or why we aren’t already using them if they exist. unless it’s a night thing?


Foremost is using rari's cop ability to inspect him, unless you think that he could also be a godfather along with his ability, or that mafia have some way to disrupt that


----------



## RedneckPhoenix

Spanner in the Works


----------



## kyeugh

Keldeo said:


> Foremost is using rari's cop ability to inspect him, unless you think that he could also be a godfather along with his ability, or that mafia have some way to disrupt that


 if he’s indeed a mafia roleblocker then doesn’t he have like 2/3 odds of hitting the cop if they block one possibility and kill another?


----------



## rari_teh

RedneckPhoenix said:


> Spanner in the Works


That’s something that smells like 3p if I’ve ever seen something that smells like 3p


----------



## mewtini

rari_teh said:


> That’s something that smells like 3p if I’ve ever seen something that smells like 3p


3p roleblock doesn't really make sense?

can we ask about power trope too?


----------



## kyeugh

mewtini said:


> 3p roleblock doesn't really make sense?
> 
> can we ask about power trope too?


that is the power trope, his trope is the fool.


----------



## mewtini

kyeugh said:


> that is the power trope, his trope is the fool.


oh shit, sorry. forgot about that


----------



## Keldeo

Why do you think MF's a goon? 

This is suuuper speculative, but if Mawile was not known to MF as mafia (which I think is likely based on like one of their earlier interactions), I feel like MF is not as likely to be a goon. Fakeclaimers gonna fakeclaim and everything, but if she perceived Mawile as non-mafia, she was originally claiming targets in order to get people to vote Mawile over herself - if she didn't actually target any of the people she said she did, a watch or track would foil her claim. And she'd been saying she'd targeted those people since d1-d2.


----------



## Keldeo

Some catchup stuff I didn't get the chance to put in elsewhere, most not really relevant rn

I think Eifie will yell at me if I don't say I'm on principle side-eyeing koko's "if I'm mafia here's another chart" but I do understand why e'd put it out there. 

I think the worlds e lays out are fine. Keeping in mind it is possible that either of these roles is mafia, I really believe that Stryke is the nanobot doctor (it's a super fakeclaimable role if he isn't) and that RNP is a roleblocker (weaker, but based on kyeugh's testimony and him mentioning asking Butterfree about role categories.)

Behaviorally I think RNP is on the edge of "too wolfy to be a wolf" vs. "actually just a wolf" and I'm tempted to lean toward the former, although this probably isn't outside of his mafia range. I'm independently liking Stryke for his eminently falsifiable claim. So I do think it's possible they and kokorico are v/v/v. I'm not sure how that situation works out mechanically, but I do think that in a game with at least three doctors, there would be some way for mafia to get around healing, whether it's blocking, redirecting, or some sort of strongman.



rari_teh said:


> Makes me wonder if they're both mafia and that's why nobody's jumping to defend anyone tbh


I'd put more weight into something like this if the thread was like, more frantic, and I guess if MF wasn't a dead woman walking / if RNP were more self-preservatory. Not many people are around right now, and I'm townreading most of the people who are.


----------



## rari_teh

Keldeo said:


> I guess I just don't... understand why we're wanting to lynch someone who has not been inspected mafia although he has mechanical weirdness going on, over someone who has been inspected mafia. I understand that MF is "solved" and RNP isn't, but I think lynching someone who is more likely to be mafia is always better than lynching a town to "solve them" when there are also mechanical ways that we can solve RNP that don't involve using one of our lynches.
> 
> The healer vig might fail, and using all of our healers with it leaves the cop role open to be killed, although there's been obfuscation as to who will have the cop role tonight.


Exactly my thoughts.
I won’t change my vote unless something Very Spectacular happens


----------



## RedneckPhoenix

The Fool is a character who survives through sheer luck. A Spanner in the Works is someone who, though no malice is necessarily present, royally fucks up even the best-laid plans


----------



## kyeugh

Keldeo said:


> Why do you think MF's a goon?


i just think it’s the most likely outcome, unless you think scum is mostly power roles.


----------



## Panini

Keldeo said:


> Yeah nah I definitely want to go *MF* > RNP today. If you think they're both mafia and RNP has a stronger role, what is he doing rn openly trying not to save himself?


tbf him not self presing
a) goes against natural logic no matter which alignment he is
b) means nothing up til the buzzer, since it's entirely possible that he's just saying he won't vote for the sake of numbers


----------



## RedneckPhoenix

the connecting flavor BFree gave me was something like "Whenever you interact with someone, you tend to mess up whatever they were doing. You've found that this can be useful if you employ it right."


----------



## mewtini

Keldeo said:


> Why do you think MF's a goon?


i just meant that if she's mafia as suspected, then it would be probabilistically likely that she's a goon



Keldeo said:


> Fakeclaimers gonna fakeclaim and everything, but if she perceived Mawile as non-mafia, she was originally claiming targets in order to get people to vote Mawile over herself - if she didn't actually target any of the people she said she did, a watch or track would foil her claim. And she'd been saying she'd targeted those people since d1-d2.


hm. but in that case i still don't think that it's a killing power? i see your point, though; i really hadn't that about that.


mewtini said:


> 3p roleblock doesn't really make sense?


also even if he is 3p this still seems like a not great argument to cite rn


----------



## Keldeo

Anyway I haven't been keeping track of the swaps, so if I do get the healer role tonight / if someone else does, I think the final healcirclevig plan was 



kokorico said:


> [Stryke] heals M&F
> VM coinflip-heals M&F or [kokorico]
> [kokorico] coinflip-heals [Stryke] or VM


----------



## mewtini

ugh idk what to do. is anyone planning on moving wagons so as to tie things up? if not i can do it


----------



## mewtini

wait that doesnt help jk


----------



## RedneckPhoenix

if i die and flip inno, which i will, that's immediate sus on any die-hard voter for me. if i live, i can go back to fishing for a killblock or someone can take my role. really, whatever you do is positive


----------



## Keldeo

mewtini said:


> it would be probabilistically likely that she's a goon


Wait, why? These might be bad assumptions, but tbh I was operating under the assumption that most mafia have powers (just because role madness if you don't get to have any roles isn't very fun), and that the killing is a factional power that can be separate to someone's role power if they have one / gets passed between mafia members.


----------



## qenya

Keldeo said:


> and that the killing is a factional power that can be separate to someone's role power if they have one / gets passed between mafia members.


this doesn't quite match the town wincon being "all mafia killing roles are dead"


----------



## kyeugh

Keldeo said:


> Wait, why? These might be bad assumptions, but tbh I was operating under the assumption that most mafia have powers (just because role madness if you don't get to have any roles isn't very fun), and that the killing is a factional power that can be separate to someone's role power if they have one / gets passed between mafia members.


 maybe! town has a bunch of mostly unpowered roles though (MI) so i don’t think it’s unlikely that mafia are the same way. there are fewer of them but... that’s always true right. idk about the killing power thing though.


----------



## mewtini

RedneckPhoenix said:


> if i die and flip inno, which i will, that's immediate sus on any die-hard voter for me.


ftr i don't think that this is true??? then again idk if anyone but VM is a true die-hard voter



Keldeo said:


> Wait, why? These might be bad assumptions, but tbh I was operating under the assumption that most mafia have powers (just because role madness if you don't get to have any roles isn't very fun), and that the killing is a factional power that can be separate to someone's role power if they have one / gets passed between mafia members.


tbh i really have no idea, i was just assuming that most roles are powerless. this is my inner novice showing


----------



## Keldeo

Ah, maybe that implies something like multiple mafia have killing roles but only one can be used in a night - I doubt that the mafia have an unlimited vig or something given how few night deaths there've been



RedneckPhoenix said:


> if i die and flip inno, which i will, that's immediate sus on any die-hard voter for me


tbh I think this situation doesn't really move the needle on anyone sussing RNP / pushing for his lynch instead of MF's today, tbh, because even though I disagree with it mechanically everyone has seemed fairly genuine in pushing it. Maaaybe kyeugh and VM. But I think I would still they're town.

Note to self that tomorrow I want to look into the chronology of VM and Negrek claiming d1, VM and Negrek claiming their info d2, and Stryke/kokorico/VM/RNP claiming results d3


----------



## Keldeo

Mawile said something about inheriting(?) the killing power but (a) it was Mawile post-check so idk how much to trust, and (b) I don't remember off the top of my head what exactly it was


----------



## mewtini

RedneckPhoenix said:


> if i die and flip inno, which i will, that's immediate sus on any die-hard voter for me.


honestly i am maybe less inclined to move because i feel so weird about this sentence, though i think it's probably not all that indicative


----------



## kyeugh

meh, is anyone really pushing for this OVER mf? i just like the discussion having two wagons has generated and am content/would prefer to let it rand.


----------



## mewtini

Keldeo said:


> Mawile said something about inheriting(?) the killing power but (a) it was Mawile post-check so idk how much to trust, and (b) I don't remember off the top of my head what exactly it was


i think all he said was that he couldn't inherit KP, presumably if something happened to the maf don, and it was implied that it was because he's out-group


----------



## Keldeo

Mawile said:


> For what it's worth, my role PM specifically notes that I can't inherit the mafia head's killing ability, so do what you want with that knowledge.


Yeah, big grain of salt because this could 100% be meant to mislead but I think this is where I got the "killing power that can be passed around" bit


----------



## mewtini

Keldeo said:


> Maaaybe kyeugh and VM.


tbh why these two? VM voted RNP in maybe the only non-tentative way, sure, but i think it seemed more a function of the Healer's Union than anything artificial. kyeugh went for it as a science/discussionmaking wagon at first ...


----------



## Keldeo

We really made it to page 200!


----------



## rari_teh

Keldeo said:


> Mawile said something about inheriting(?) the killing power but (a) it was Mawile post-check so idk how much to trust, and (b) I don't remember off the top of my head what exactly it was


iirc he said that he wouldn’t inherit any killing roles as far as he knew. He claimed to not be part of the mafia chat, and not know how the mafia works at all.


mewtini said:


> honestly i am maybe less inclined to move because i feel so weird about this sentence, though i think it's probably not all that indicative


I think that was RNP trying to scare people away from voting for him tbh
I don’t think that was indicative of alignment


----------



## mewtini

rari_teh said:


> I think that was RNP trying to scare people away from voting for him tbh


it was kind of a bad play if this were the case, and still one that i think reads ... red? like anyone who would hypothetically get scared off of the wagon that easily is like. Hmm.


----------



## kyeugh

rari_teh said:


> I think that was RNP trying to scare people away from voting for him tbh
> I don’t think that was indicative of alignment


i feel like these two things are contradictory


----------



## mewtini

not a fan of finger-pointing especially when he won't vote MF, who is all but conf!mafiosa


----------



## Keldeo

mewtini said:


> tbh why these two? VM voted RNP in maybe the only non-tentative way, sure, but i think it seemed more a function of the Healer's Union than anything artificial. kyeugh went for it as a science/discussionmaking wagon at first ...


Basically the people most actively pushing for it / standing against the MF wagon, iirc. I think VM said he would go along with anything, though, but he's (by process of elimination) the most suspect person on the wagon to me. 

idr why Herbe is on it actually, but I want to let him vibe. I feel like the wagon is probably mostly villagers regardless of RNP's alignment in any case - Ultracool is town. You're townier than either of kyeugh or VM off non-mechanics imo. I guess you could add koko to the Healer's Union bit.


----------



## rari_teh

mewtini said:


> it was kind of a bad play if this were the case, and still one that i think reads ... red? like anyone who would hypothetically get scared off of the wagon that easily is like. Hmm.


Well I didn’t say it was a good play lol



kyeugh said:


> i feel like these two things are contradictory


Why so?


----------



## mewtini

Keldeo said:


> idr why Herbe is on it actually, but I want to let him vibe


tbqh i think herbe followed my vote a bit


----------



## kyeugh

i spent all day fucking with my desktop configuration so setting the word “conf” is taking me to a bad place


----------



## Ottercopter

RedneckPhoenix said:


> if i die and flip inno, which i will, that's immediate sus on any die-hard voter for me. if i live, i can go back to fishing for a killblock or someone can take my role. really, whatever you do is positive


Pretty sure you're about to die, but just in case, I really, really hope this means you're not gonna target Stryke tonight. In case you don't catch up with the thread, and Mr. Ultracool, Keldeo, Rari_teh, and Panini should also be left alone. Oh, and me, since I'm involved in the switching game now. Uhhh, anyone have any ideas who might be a good roleblocking target? 
I dunno if there's any use in asking, but at this point, I'm kinda used to it.


----------



## mewtini

rari_teh said:


> Why so?


trying to get people off of your back seems like it goes against a pure town-agenda here. especially when everyone voting for him is towncore


----------



## rari_teh

Also @RedneckPhoenix why don’t you vote for M&F tbh


----------



## kyeugh

rari_teh said:


> Why so?


i don’t think “scaring” people off a vote is very towny.


----------



## mewtini

honestly something i'm considering is that they're both mafia but MF has a stronger role, in which case maybe it's a self sacrifice.......


----------



## RedneckPhoenix

what? no. what? i'm saying i'm fine with y'all lynching me cuz it'll provide more info 

where did you get "trying to scare off voters" from


----------



## Keldeo

I don't think he was trying to scare people tbh. Feel like that's a genuine straightforward thought that RNP has about "people voting him if he is town" regardless of his alignment, if that makes any sense.

If RNP ends up living, I don't think we should restrict him more than what #3991 says because if he is mafia he can do whatever anyway, and if he actually is town then I think it's better that the mafia not know anything about who he's going to go after.

glgl.


----------



## mewtini

ugh fingers crossed


----------



## rari_teh

mewtini said:


> especially when everyone voting for him is towncore


Herbe isn’t towncore tbh


kyeugh said:


> i don’t think “scaring” people off a vote is very towny.


Not very towny indeed, but I am brushing that one off as his (without a doubt, aggressive) style of gameplay


----------



## mewtini

rari_teh said:


> Herbe isn’t towncore tbh


but like. the rest of us are?


----------



## rari_teh

Oh shit it’s gonna eeeeeend
Good night friends :(


----------



## mewtini

goodnight :(


----------



## RedneckPhoenix

if yall want me to vote mf just say so so i can be sure i ain't stepping on toes. asking why i didn't vote isn't, uh, very conducive


----------



## kyeugh

if rnp lives, he should target me tonight


----------



## rari_teh

RedneckPhoenix said:


> where did you get "trying to scare off voters" from


You pointing out that people who voted for you are going to be FoSsed if you flip inno is pretty much scaring off a vote tbh


mewtini said:


> but like. the rest of us are?


Yes, the rest of you are indeed.


----------



## mewtini

(happy official 4k posts!)



RedneckPhoenix said:


> if yall want me to vote mf just say so so i can be sure i ain't stepping on toes. asking why i didn't vote isn't, uh, very conducive


i mean you can vote whatever you want; the reason there's worry about you not having voted mf is that it looks like wolf defending wolf


----------



## rari_teh

RedneckPhoenix said:


> if yall want me to vote mf just say so so i can be sure i ain't stepping on toes. asking why i didn't vote isn't, uh, very conducive


JUST VOTE MATE


----------



## RedneckPhoenix

rari_teh said:


> Oh shit it’s gonna eeeeeend
> Good night friends :(


assuming bfree doesn't extend the day phase bc discussion is still ongoing


----------



## Butterfree

After a day of everyone casually, lazily getting ready to lynch *M&F*, they somehow end up grabbing *RedneckPhoenix* at the last minute. He refuses to even cast a vote as the noose is looped around his neck.

His last words as night falls are to say maybe the sun's just going to not set quite yet. Unfortunately, that's not how physics works.

As the sun disappears below the horizon, physics snaps his neck. A search of his home reveals a dartboard with *Stryke*'s face drawn on it in marker and an oddly draconic clown costume, but sadly no evidence of connections with the mafia or the preceding murders.

*RedneckPhoenix is dead. He was not mafia.

Please send in your night actions. The night will end on April 30th, 0:00 UTC (UNIVERSAL time coordinated, because Iceland is in the top percentage of time zones).*

Final vote counts:
*RedneckPhoenix* (6) (Herbe, Mr. Ultracool, Vipera Magnifica, kokorico, kyeugh, mewtini)
*M&F* (5) (Keldeo, Ottercopter, Panini, Seshas, rari_teh)
No vote (14) (Mawile, Flora, M&F, JackPK, I liek Squirtles, Stryke, serimachi, Negrek, RedneckPhoenix, IndigoEmmy, Odie_Pie, Eifie, Mist1422, Boquise)



Spoiler: Full vote history



*Ottercopter* votes *M&F* (#3655)
*mewtini* votes *M&F* (#3656)
*Herbe* votes *M&F* (#3657)
*rari_teh* votes *M&F* (#3687)
*Panini* votes *M&F* (#3695)
*Seshas* votes *M&F* (#3701)
*kyeugh* votes *M&F* (#3717)
*kyeugh* votes *RedneckPhoenix* (#3802)
*mewtini* votes *RedneckPhoenix* (#3821)
*kokorico* votes *M&F* (#3822)
*Vipera Magnifica* votes *RedneckPhoenix* (#3825)
*Herbe* votes *RedneckPhoenix* (#3869)
*Keldeo* votes *RedneckPhoenix* (#3880)
*Mr. Ultracool* votes *RedneckPhoenix* (#3933)
*Keldeo* votes *M&F* (#3937)
*kokorico* votes *RedneckPhoenix* (#3941)





Spoiler: Active votes



*Herbe* votes *RedneckPhoenix* (#3869)
*Keldeo* votes *M&F* (#3937)
*Mr. Ultracool* votes *RedneckPhoenix* (#3933)
*Ottercopter* votes *M&F* (#3655)
*Panini* votes *M&F* (#3695)
*Seshas* votes *M&F* (#3701)
*Vipera Magnifica* votes *RedneckPhoenix* (#3825)
*kokorico* votes *RedneckPhoenix* (#3941)
*kyeugh* votes *RedneckPhoenix* (#3802)
*mewtini* votes *RedneckPhoenix* (#3821)
*rari_teh* votes *M&F* (#3687)


----------



## Butterfree

The citizens of Troperville find another dead body in the town square the next morning. This time it's *rari_teh*. She lies by the fountain, a victorious grin on her glassy-eyed face, her fists raised in triumph - but stone dead. By her side, the words JUST THE BEGINNING have been scrawled in the dirt, in handwriting that matches the journal in her pocket.

They find no signs of anything suspect on her or in her house.

*rari_teh is dead. She was not mafia.

You have 72 hours to discuss. The day will end on May 3rd, 0:00 UTC (in the land of the midnight sun where the hot springs flow).*



Spoiler: Pings



@Negrek
@Keldeo
@JackPK
@Flora
@I liek Squirtles
@kyeugh
@Ottercopter
@M&F
@Mist1422
@Eifie
@RedneckPhoenix
@Panini
@kokorico
@Boquise
@Seshas
@Stryke
@mewtini
@Mr. Ultracool
@IndigoEmmy
@rari_teh
@Mawile
@Odie_Pie
@serimachi
@Herbe
@Vipera Magnifica


----------



## mewtini

NOOOOOOO wtf


----------



## mewtini

ugh anyway

*m&f*

good morning tbh. 
sorry about rnp, i didn't know the votes weren't tied. rip :(


----------



## Keldeo

Butterfree said:


> RedneckPhoenix is dead. He was not mafia.


----------



## mewtini

Butterfree said:


> in the land of the midnight sun where the hot springs flow


lmfao



Keldeo said:


> Butterfree said:
> 
> 
> 
> RedneckPhoenix is dead. He was not mafia.
Click to expand...

keldeo im sorry. i failed you


----------



## kyeugh

this flavor text is still creepy


----------



## Herbe

*m&f*

fuck why couldn't rari have stayed in the game longer imma miss his analysis

what can we take away from the not mafia flip on rnp?


----------



## Herbe

Butterfree said:


> She lies by the fountain, a victorious grin on her glassy-eyed face, her fists raised in triumph - but stone dead. By her side, the words JUST THE BEGINNING have been scrawled in the dirt, in handwriting that matches the journal in her pocket.


what in the hell does this mean???

not to dive tooooo much into flavor spec but since we already have our lynch of the day. What???


----------



## kyeugh

well, i’m basically out of people i get bad vibes from to kill. so i’m not sure what we’re going to do after this. but yeah *m&f*.

rip rari... now that we know you were innocent (unless...?) i just want to say wow you are crazy good for a first time player and your intuition is incredible. i’m glad i got to play with you


----------



## mewtini

so it's another ... triumphant death? maybe it's related to boq? lol. :-///


Herbe said:


> what can we take away from the not mafia flip on rnp?


imma look at this when i get a chance later tonight


----------



## Keldeo

I got a red check last night. Good times. 

I think the flavor is because rari got Ottercopter's Thanatos Gambit role yesterday, and therefore won the game because the mafia killed them.

@kokorico @Stryke @Vipera Magnifica who'd you heal last night? c:


----------



## qenya

Herbe said:


> what in the hell does this mean???


guess: due to the bodyswapping shenanigans, rari_teh acquired Ottercopter's original role, whose wincon was to get nightkilled


----------



## mewtini

kyeugh said:


> rip rari... now that we know you were innocent (unless...?) i just want to say wow you are crazy good for a first time player and your intuition is incredible. i’m glad i got to play with you


yeah exactly this! dude seriously! you were awesome! v sad to see you go tbh. we will avenge you


----------



## mewtini

TOTALLY forgot that they grabbed otter's role. nice tbh.


----------



## kyeugh

kokorico said:


> guess: due to the bodyswapping shenanigans, rari_teh acquired Ottercopter's original role, whose wincon was to get nightkilled


oh good catch


----------



## kyeugh

Keldeo said:


> I think the flavor is because rari got Ottercopter's Thanatos Gambit role yesterday, and therefore won the game because the mafia killed them.


oh keldeo said it too. good catch also keldeo.


----------



## mewtini

i was actually just thinking about the bodyswap role, i was like shit. did we just lose that?! so double nice for having kept it honestly. i guess otter really wasn't lying :p


----------



## mewtini

Keldeo said:


> I got a red check last night. Good times.


oh?!


----------



## qenya

Keldeo said:


> @kokorico @Stryke @Vipera Magnifica who'd you heal last night? c:


per the plan, I coinflipped between Stryke and VM. VM won the toss.

sadly the plan apparently didn't work out, so I'll be v curious to find out it failed because of Shenanigans or just because VM threw tails on his conflip


----------



## kyeugh

mewtini said:


> Keldeo said:
> 
> 
> 
> I got a red check last night. Good times.
> 
> 
> 
> oh?!
Click to expand...

well, the enemy of the enemy is my friend.. and if the red checks are the enemy of the blue checks, then perhaps...


----------



## mewtini

the link said:
			
		

> *Important:* Please note that our verified account program is currently on hold. We are not accepting any new requests at this time.


damn it. there go my dreams


----------



## Ottercopter

I was about to celebrate because I can win again, but actually, I guess if we achieve a townie win, then Rari_teh's the real victor here. Oh well. No change for me, I guess. But I'm glad that this finally confirms that I was telling the truth, heehee.
*MF*, of course.


----------



## Stryke

Keldeo said:


> I got a red check last night. Good times.
> 
> I think the flavor is because rari got Ottercopter's Thanatos Gambit role yesterday, and therefore won the game because the mafia killed them.
> 
> @kokorico @Stryke @Vipera Magnifica who'd you heal last night? c:


I healed M&F per kokoricos plan, in an attempt to get them healclashviged... Guess that was a bust


----------



## Stryke

Well, if at first you don't succeed, try try again: *M&F*


----------



## Keldeo

I'm not gonna say who I inspected as mafia until later in the day. I'm not sure how much that will actually help to gauge reactions, because everyone's suspicions are on MF, but why not.

Ottercopter having told the truth means that the major day 1 wagons were two townies. Without looking back at how the suspicion built up, I don't know if that says much - I think most of the people who were super active at that end of day were town regardless.

kokorico and Stryke, what are your thoughts about the most likely situation with the Eifie kill, given RNP's town flip?

Ottercopter, just curious, what was your other trope besides Thanatos Gambit?

To everyone, I'd be interested in hearing about who you're suspecting or where you're thinking of looking, disregarding MF.


----------



## Ottercopter

I was a Death Seeker!

And this is soley based on bad vibes, but since you asked, I think Herbe's the most suspicious to me out of all the RNP voters last day.



Herbe said:


> i can vibe with this reasoning tbh.
> *rnp*


----------



## kyeugh

right now my worst feelings about anyone are null. guess my next move would be to pressure any of flora, serimachi, or mist.


----------



## kyeugh

oh yeah herbe is in the null pile too. forgot about him, i was just skimming the members list. :p


----------



## mewtini

i would rather not go for herbe tbh, i think it's a wasted lynch and he's way less likely to be scum than the other three ... in my mind he's confirmed harmless 3p and i don't think he has an agenda?

don't care about the other three though and i don't have any other ideas


----------



## mewtini

mewtini said:


> i would rather not go for herbe tbh, i think it's a wasted lynch and he's way less likely to be scum than the other three ... in my mind he's confirmed harmless 3p and i don't think he has an agenda?
> 
> don't care about the other three though and i don't have any other ideas


like i know i've bodyblocked herbe before because i <3 love him <3 but fr i maintain that my Actual In-Game Read leans far against him being town. i think looking back through his posts and trying to pick a w/w lovers pair is inconsistent with what happened, not to mention his helpfulness in early game, so i think it would be better to focus energy elsewhere


----------



## Herbe

i am just sitting...


----------



## mewtini

mewtini said:


> leans far against him being town.


against him being MAFIA jfc


----------



## kyeugh

mewtini said:


> i would rather not go for herbe tbh, i think it's a wasted lynch and he's way less likely to be scum than the other three ... in my mind he's confirmed harmless 3p and i don't think he has an agenda?


i disagree.  i'm not really leaning scum on herbe per se but there's much more to be gleaned from his lynch than any of the inactives, and he is only "confirmed" insofar as you trust his word, which you're free to do but i don't think it's near enough to make him a _wasted_ lynch.


----------



## mewtini

yeah i won't hard-resist a herbe lynch, i just don't really like it compared to flora/mist/seri. i also think that he's responded pretty like, blandly? whenever he's been vaguely pointed at in a way that feels not scum to me

i can try to explain it a bit better if you want in a bit. i'm a bit distracted rn


----------



## Herbe

kyeugh said:


> i disagree. i'm not really leaning scum on herbe per se but there's much more to be gleaned from his lynch than any of the inactives


maybe this is dummy move on my part but i actually agree w kyeugh here O_O

i'm just vibing tbh


----------



## Herbe

with that said, i would Prefer not to be lynched...? thanks?


----------



## kyeugh

it's fine, i'm not really pushing for herbe right now.  i just don't like the idea of preemptively writing him off as "basically confirmed" or "way less likely to be scum" or whatever because i don't think there's really solid grounds for that.


----------



## mewtini

sorry if i'm coming off combative or something tbh. i'd just rather push on like, anyone else, especially considering the ramifications of who MF did or didn't name in her posts (herbe _did_ get mentioned by her, making me think that he really doesn't matter much in our current convo)



kyeugh said:


> there's much more to be gleaned from his lynch than any of the inactives


also i think im just missing something. if he's third-party what would we learn from it? i'm honestly just seeing him as existing outside of the game at this point in time


----------



## mewtini

versus going after inactives, where i think (knock on wood) people who respond to that lynch notion like "yeah ok whatever" - which is where i'm at, up until one of them hopefully becomes active and gives us something to discuss for real - are going to show up much differently than those who try to hang onto/mildly protect 0-posters? idk if that makes sense


----------



## mewtini

also as i understand it mafia wins when they have majority over all players, including 3p? so wouldn't it hurt us if we slipped up there given how many townies are down :x


----------



## kyeugh

mewtini said:


> also i think im just missing something. if he's third-party what would we learn from it? i'm honestly just seeing him as existing outside of the game at this point in time


he's a lot more active than any of the other people i mentioned, so i'm not sure how his lynch _wouldn't_ provide more information than someone who's been less involved no matter his flip.  he definitely exists inside of the game far more than the others imo.

looking at the things mf has said has some value but i'm not sure i like the idea of putting off anyone she's mentioned, either; it assumes that she's mafia, that she's in-group mafia, and that she distances from her teammates by not mentioning them.  a possibility to consider but again far from something i'd feel comfortable giving even a tentative lean based on.


----------



## kyeugh

dw, you're not really being combative, i just really don't think there's really a good reason herbe should be outside the list of people we're looking at.  not fully comfortable going that direction, but not _less_ comfortable with it than the others i've mentioned, and there isn't really anyone left that i'd be pleased to push on at this point anyway.


----------



## mewtini

my read on herbe isn't really based on MF's comments fwiw, i just don't really understand (maybe bc i haven't played before? idrk) why a 3p flip reveals anything. like. scum would be ambivalent and townies would respond based off of whether they liked him or not, right? i guess i just want more explanation on that front

it's less me being _uncomfortable_ with it and more me thinking that time would be better spent on trying to dig up and follow other leads (up to and including herbe if people really want to talk about him). i also kind of think that herbe's already been pushed on so i feel like it won't look any different than it has in the last few days, though he can feel free to prove me wrong there.



kyeugh said:


> i'm not really leaning scum on herbe per se


tl;dr if you don't think he's scum then can you talk more about the infoyield you'd expect? if you think he could be then i disagree but i'd def be less confused

i just don't want to start with him and imo devoting time towards it feels weird. i should probably spend time looking at other people's isos but that requires way more effort than talking about someone who i actually know about lol, more later i guess


----------



## mewtini

mewtini said:


> tl;dr if you don't think he's scum


would've been better phrased as "if you're not scumleaning"


----------



## kyeugh

there's just not really much to explain tbh.  i just think herbe is basically null, so it's about as useful to watch him as it is the other people i feel null about.  you seem not to think he's null for one reason or another but i disagree; i don't think he's remotely "confirmed" 3p, nor do i think he exists outside of the game.  he's been a moderately active player, one wrapped up very intimately with a confirmed wolf, and one who a fair few people have found hard to place outside of nebulously good vibes.  maybe a 3p flip wouldn't be extremely illuminating but the odds that he flips 3p are definitely not 100%.

but again, i'm not scum reading him.  i just think he's on level with my other meh reads, like flora/serimachi/mist.  i don't want it to seem like i'm laying the case for his scumminess right now, because i'm not, but there's just not really good reason in my view to brush him to the side entirely.  simply taking his word for what was previously a fairly incriminating chain of events and then just leaving it there without another look seems weird to me, especially if we end up with no other strong leads to follow.


----------



## Vipera Magnifica

Keldeo said:


> @Vipera Magnifica who'd you heal last night? c:


flipped a coin as per the plan and healed kokorico

I would much rather have killed *M&F* the _fun_ way but I guess this will do


----------



## Zori

*Night 4 Diary:*
_April 27, 10:36 PM_ - I feel really bad for not stopping the RNP wagon earlier
We always flip *M&F* D5

I'm going to go ahead and FoS the people that were on there
The non-voters (Mist, Flora, Stryke, Semirachi, Indigo) is just way too easy a gamesolve
I'm (after 2 minutes of looking at the vote history) going to FoS in particular Keldeo and kokoriko for wagon hopping
I think I'm going to sign off for tonight, more tomorrow ig

-----​
_April 28, 9:21 AM_ - Based on the Phoenix wagon comp, I'm going to say there's a chance I don't have a handle on how M&F treated his scumbuddies.



> *RedneckPhoenix* (6) (Herbe, Mr. Ultracool, Vipera Magnifica, kokorico, kyeugh, mewtini)
> *M&F* (5) (Keldeo, Ottercopter, Panini, Seshas, rari_teh)
> No vote (14) (Flora, M&F, Stryke, serimachi, RedneckPhoenix, IndigoEmmy, Mist1422)


During rereading, I'm going to come out with a scumread on kokorico. As said in his own mechanical analysis, it's unlikely that he's a functional doctor. If kokorico is a wolf, it's probable Stryke is as well.
There's definitely a wolf on the Phoenix wagon, and according to my previous M&F spew, it can only be kokorico.

In a kokoriko/Stryke world, Stryke would still probably be a Nanobot Doctor, but he would be using it _as an extra wolf KPN, intentionally trying to healclash_.

I'm tinfoiling that Vipera/kokorico/Stryke is a big wolf theatre, but mechanically that's unlikely.

Herbe sheeping mewtini isn't the greatest look.

Panini probably isn't likely to be mafia, since their posts don't fit with the mafia agenda. Keldeo is probably town.
Note to self: Read EoD2 next.

-----​_April 28, 12:59 PM - _Rereading EoD. Panini visionary, Don't particularly like Keldeo pushing "They're both mafia" but he's still town from mechanics
My bets are on M&F surviving the night and Rari dying instead

-----​
_April 28, 3:03 PM_ - EoD2 Votecount:


> *Odie_Pie* (9) (Eifie, Keldeo, Mawile, Negrek, Ottercopter, Panini, Stryke, kyeugh, mewtini)
> *Stryke* (6) (Herbe, IndigoEmmy, M&F, Seshas, kokorico, rari_teh)
> *Panini* (1) (Mist1422)
> No vote (9) (Flora, serimachi, RedneckPhoenix, Vipera Magnifica, Mr. Ultracool, Odie_Pie)


Not so sure about Stryke here, but Occam's Razor on the JackPK debacle screams Wolf!Vipera who didn't know about out-group Mafia flipping Mafia. This fits with the EoD4 Votecount, but it means my M&F spewreads may have been wrong. In any case, this makes me believe that Stryke and kokorico are less likely to be scum together than I initially believed.


----------



## mewtini

kyeugh said:


> especially if we end up with no other strong leads to follow.


yeah i was arguing against him being the *main* suspect more than anything else. i actually get your point a bit more now after reading your first paragraph, though; i think part of my read factors in his lack of experience, where i think he's acted pretty instinctively towny ...


kyeugh said:


> maybe a 3p flip wouldn't be extremely illuminating but the odds that he flips 3p are definitely not 100%.


i also kind of thought you were saying it would be illuminating even if he flipped 3p, which is what i was confused about! ty for putting up with my qs tbh


----------



## Zori

TL;DR: I definitely regret missing EoD4
Vipera is surrounded with so much weirdness that Occam's Razor says that he's scum


----------



## kyeugh

@Seshas, where are you at right now?  vm/koko w/w?


----------



## kyeugh

le ebin ninja has arrived


----------



## mewtini

Seshas said:


> My bets are on M&F surviving the night and Rari dying instead


:C


----------



## Zori

I feel like Stryke/kokoriko doesn't make as much sense considering EoD2


----------



## Zori

and kokoriko is not mafia with stryke town unless mafia have a doctor-bypass role
the way kokoriko handled his long table-post makes me believe they don't if he flips mafia


----------



## Zori

Seshas said:


> and kokoriko is not mafia with stryke town unless mafia have a doctor-bypass role
> the way kokoriko handled his long table-post makes me believe they don't if he flips mafia


Specifically, the way kokoriko just flat-out assumed there wasn't any other roles messing with it


----------



## mewtini

Seshas said:


> Occam's Razor on the JackPK debacle screams Wolf!Vipera who didn't know about out-group Mafia flipping Mafia


this is intriguing


----------



## kyeugh

mewtini said:


> Seshas said:
> 
> 
> 
> Occam's Razor on the JackPK debacle screams Wolf!Vipera who didn't know about out-group Mafia flipping Mafia
> 
> 
> 
> this is intriguing
Click to expand...

i feel like someone else had this exact read earlier and got jumped on for it


----------



## mewtini

kyeugh said:


> i feel like someone else had this exact read earlier and got jumped on for it


are you talking about stryke's early VM shade? quite frankly i might've done the jumping, but i haven't heard it explained like how seshas just said it, iirc


----------



## Zori

kyeugh said:


> mewtini said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Seshas said:
> 
> 
> 
> Occam's Razor on the JackPK debacle screams Wolf!Vipera who didn't know about out-group Mafia flipping Mafia
> 
> 
> 
> this is intriguing
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> i feel like someone else had this exact read earlier and got jumped on for it
Click to expand...

probably
I didn't read the entire thread tbh

Also, is that nested quotes working


----------



## kyeugh

ah yeah it was stryke i think


----------



## mewtini

Seshas said:


> Also, is that nested quotes working


it is. isn't she beautiful??


----------



## kyeugh

i'm definitely receiving it more positively when you say it, seshas, than i did when stryke said it but idk whether that means a) stryke was onto something and i just didn't like how it was presented, or b) you're presenting information i still don't agree with in a way that makes me more receptive to it

overall i think i don't really know what's up with vm but if he's a wolf he's definitely going about it a pretty roundabout way


----------



## Zori

kyeugh said:


> ah yeah it was stryke i think


Then that would mean that Stryke is almost never mafia with Vipera


----------



## Butterfree

Seshas said:


> kyeugh said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> mewtini said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Seshas said:
> 
> 
> 
> Occam's Razor on the JackPK debacle screams Wolf!Vipera who didn't know about out-group Mafia flipping Mafia
> 
> 
> 
> this is intriguing
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> i feel like someone else had this exact read earlier and got jumped on for it
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> probably
> I didn't read the entire thread tbh
> 
> Also, is that nested quotes working
Click to expand...

Thanks to Eifie and Keldeo, I got a hack for it installed! Enjoy.


----------



## Zori

The point is that there's a crap-ton of inconsistencies going around and we can't chalk it all up to role screwery


----------



## mewtini

kyeugh said:


> i'm definitely receiving it more positively when you say it, seshas, than i did when stryke said it but idk whether that means a) stryke was onto something and i just didn't like how it was presented, or b) you're presenting information i still don't agree with in a way that makes me more receptive to it
> 
> overall i think i don't really know what's up with vm but if he's a wolf he's definitely going about it a pretty roundabout way


when stryke said it he was talking about VM joking about being unlimited vig and not really about the jack kill, which was why i disagreed with it so hard (bc i still think it was such an obvious joke that it was NAI) and if that is what you're thinking about, idk if i would say that stryke was onto something at the time - even if VM ends up looking weird in other places. lol

your last sentence is kinda why i've been leaving VM alone even though i admit it could be worth investigating more? i was just reluctant to make a PR talk more fsr


----------



## Zori

Also, it would explain Vipera targeting kyeugh with nanobots
since a Mafia role screwing with that in that way is just straight out bizzare


----------



## kyeugh

mewtini said:


> when stryke said it he was talking about VM joking about being unlimited vig and not really about the jack kill, which was why i disagreed with it so hard (bc i still think it was such an obvious joke that it was NAI) and if that is what you're thinking about, idk if i would say that stryke was onto something at the time - even if VM ends up looking weird in other places. lol


this is not what i'm talking about then; there was someone who was lightly shading vm because "too much stuff is happening to him and it could be an attempt to distract/cause chaos" or something like that


----------



## mewtini

what do y'all think w!vm could mean for koko/stryke, if anything? i guess it would make stryke towny, i can't think of any true exchanges with koko off the top of my head right now



kyeugh said:


> this is not what i'm talking about then; there was someone who was lightly shading vm because "too much stuff is happening to him and it could be an attempt to distract/cause chaos" or something like that


tbh now that i think about it that might have also been stryke, i'm not as sure but i know what you're talking about now. will have to look back


----------



## mewtini

Stryke said:


> rari_teh said:
> 
> 
> 
> I’ve been trying to cook up a good counterpoint to this but I kinda… can’t? The only part of this that I cannot get under to is your flimsy connection between Vipera and the genesis of ILS’s lynchtrain: no way in hell would mafia!Vipera be able to guess that a) people would take his joke seriously, b) one of those people would be ILS and c) his reaction would ultimately result in his lynching
> 
> Apart from that, yeah, you’re right…? I don’t know, I don’t get any weird vibes from VM, I genuinely think he’s just happened to have a lot of wacky shit happening to him. I don’t deny I might as well be wrong, though.
> 
> 
> 
> Yeah I'm not saying he had it all planned from the start but I wouldn't be surprised if he was looking to ruffle some feathers. ILS just happened to be caught in the chaos and it just snowballed from there
Click to expand...

i think it's this?

also wrt to the post i just made, i do think that seshas' point about there probably being some wolf in the healer ring is a likely one. i keep conflating them together though so maybe i need to be doing reads between The Ring and everyone else. hah


----------



## kyeugh

healclashviggate


----------



## Zori

W!VM likely means V!Stryke and by extension probably V!kokoriko


----------



## Zori

Seshas said:


> W!VM likely means V!Stryke and by extension probably V!kokoriko


There's a chance that they're all Mafia, but that would probably become appearant if we can't find any scum flips outside them


----------



## Vipera Magnifica

Seshas said:


> TL;DR: I definitely regret missing EoD4
> Vipera is surrounded with so much weirdness that Occam's Razor says that he's scum


i'm not going to deny a lot of weird stuff has happened around me so i can't really blame you for scumreading me but i explained earlier in a longpost why i couldn't be mafia

to paraphrase, if you accept the fact that i was town universal backup at the start of the game, i would have no reason to lie about the condition that I inherit the role of the non-mafia player to die. if i inherited a mafia role, that would directly contradict what i said back then. unless you somehow think i was never universal backup to begin with and was mafia from the very beginning, i don't see how that would be possible? but even that doesn't make a ton of sense because if i was a mafia doctor from the start of the game, just what the hell was Jack? i would understand reading me as third-party, and well, i wouldn't have much of an answer for that but even with that a 3p wincon for doctor makes little sense

if you feel it's necessary you can inspect me, swap me, whatever it is you need to do to put this issue to rest


----------



## Stryke

Keldeo said:


> kokorico and Stryke, what are your thoughts about the most likely situation with the Eifie kill, given RNP's town flip?


No clue. I know that I definitely healed Eifie, I have no reason to disbelieve kokorico, and I know RNP so I definitely believe him when he said he was partially doing it to mess with me. I guess my bet would be on a second roleblocker or a bus driver being somewhere out there, but it's impossible to really know without any more evidence, imo


----------



## mewtini

Seshas said:


> There's a chance that they're all Mafia, but that would probably become appearant if we can't find any scum flips outside them


i feel like this would be so. weird. i guess it's possible but i TR koko and the healer ring developing felt pretty organic, but it is possible ofc

we could try to swap with any of them; VM just offered and i think his name has come up kind of often as a good target? (inb4 whoever swaps with him gets targeted on the nightkill in an attempt to either Free VM or Frame VM)


----------



## Zori

The swap would probably work, since W!Vipera wouldn't have the universal backup role


----------



## mewtini

Seshas said:


> The swap would probably work, since W!Vipera wouldn't have the universal backup role


you mean the inherited doctor role?
i don't think we know what happens if someone swaps with mafia


----------



## Stryke

Hey whats the prevailing theory/theories for why Eifie died? There are a ton of thoughts bouncing around in my head and I'm hoping that by getting this answer itll help get them in order


----------



## Zori

Actually
If Vipera is Mafia, he could be a Mafia Universal Backup that got Jack's Nanobots and thought there would be no difference claiming he got Squirtle's Magic instead
Swapping clears it up either way (Assuming the swap only swaps abilities, swapping alignments would be broken as heck)


----------



## Zori

I'm probably going to go to bed soon


----------



## kyeugh

Seshas said:


> (Assuming the swap only swaps abilities, swapping alignments would be broken as heck)


oh.  i didn't consider that you might just swap powers without swapping alignments but that's reasonable.  although i still kind of doubt it; aiui swapping grants you access to the role pm/trope name etc, so you'd still be able to tell right?


----------



## mewtini

Seshas said:


> thought there would be no difference claiming he got Squirtle's Magic instead


oh, huh. and as mentioned before no one knew someone like skylar would show up and be able to comment on night action info ... that could be a thing i guess?



Stryke said:


> Hey whats the prevailing theory/theories for why Eifie died?


i wish i knew/i'm wondering the same thing, i'm kinda quoting you for the sake of Signal Boosting


----------



## Zori

kyeugh said:


> Seshas said:
> 
> 
> 
> (Assuming the swap only swaps abilities, swapping alignments would be broken as heck)
> 
> 
> 
> oh.  i didn't consider that you might just swap powers without swapping alignments but that's reasonable.  although i still kind of doubt it; aiui swapping grants you access to the role pm/trope name etc, so you'd still be able to tell right?
Click to expand...

Unless trope name isn't necessarily correlated with alignment
In any case, anyone with the trope "Big Bad Evil Guy" is probably a Mafia killing role and thus unswappable


----------



## Keldeo

The swap includes both powers and alignment/win condition. Not sure what happens if a mafia is swapped with - only town have been so far.


----------



## mewtini

cute idea, we swap with mf before healclashvig#2 to see what happens when you swap with mafia <3


----------



## mewtini

in this scenario though, there's also the VM whisper to deal with


----------



## Zori

Keldeo said:


> The swap includes both powers and alignment/win condition. Not sure what happens if a mafia is swapped with - only town have been so far.


Then that's actually broken as hell if you can target mafia
so we can assume no mafia have been targeted


----------



## Zori

mewtini said:


> cute idea, we swap with mf before healclashvig#2 to see what happens when you swap with mafia <3


We'd lose the role though


----------



## mewtini

i was totally, completely kidding. sorry if that wasn't clear


----------



## M&F

hi guys, I forgot about the game until such a point as when checking in would have been too much executive dysfunction

do I want to bother finding out about the reasoning for my lynching


----------



## Keldeo

M&F said:


> hi guys, I forgot about the game until such a point as when checking in would have been too much executive dysfunction
> 
> do I want to bother finding out about the reasoning for my lynching


Hi MF!! I hope all's well!

Rari inspected you as mafia and just now flipped town, so I think you're the biggest lead for a lot of people right now.


----------



## Stryke

M&F said:


> hi guys, I forgot about the game until such a point as when checking in would have been too much executive dysfunction
> 
> do I want to bother finding out about the reasoning for my lynching


full disclosure we may have tried to pseudo-vigkill you overnight but seeing as you're still here you can probably guess how well that went


----------



## M&F

fair enough, carry on


----------



## mewtini

MF said:
			
		

>


(yes this is all the contribution i have to offer rn.)


----------



## Keldeo

So I'm trying not to be on a high horse about this (and maybe failing, and I'm sorry if I am failing because I know I'm as much at fault as anyone) but my takeaways from the lynch yesterday are:

 If we have a mechanically confirmed mafia on the table, I think it's probably best to just lynch the mafia over anyone else. Even if we seem to have some way to vig the mafia or we're not sure of the confirm. 
 Not liking what someone is doing with their role, or thinking they have been anti-town or haven't been contributing, doesn't mean they are mafia. Obviously I think town should try to play to their win conditions, but I also think not seeming to do so doesn't mean someone deserves to get lynched.


----------



## Keldeo

Here's a #Chartz / Cliffsnotes / purely mechanical summary of the thread so far!

Mod confirmation that the mafia can kill someone every night

*DAY 1 (P#2 to P#1483)*


Spoiler




*JackPK* dies, flipping not mafia. (P#2)
 "eyes still wide open," "silent indignation", unclear cause of death, "no weapons, no obvious signs of shady activity"

 *Vipera Magnifica* claims to take over the role/power of the first non-mafia to die but didn't get Jack's role. (P#74)
 *Negrek* claims to learn the tropes of dead players "whenever a player dies" and "using meta knowledge", and Jack was *Deadly Doctor*. (P#105)
 *Seshas* claims "spoopy info that suggests that Mafia have a say in the death flavor" (P#184)
*Seshas* expands on this as "mafia are pulling strings behind the curtain" (P#201) and "from a source I can confirm as probably trustworthy" (P#405)

*Vipera Magnifica* re-claims as "the first time a non-mafia player dies in the game, I will take on their role and power as the next night phase begins" (P#208)
*IndigoEmmy* claims *Mysterious Informant* / Expospeak with the information that "there are magic doctors and Nanomachine using doctors" that "don't get along" (P#310)
 After Eifie brings up the possibility of them being MI, *Seshas* confirms the claim as *Mysterious Informant* and says they were vague because they didn't know if they could quote their role PM (P#614)
 *Vipera Magnifica* joke-claims learning all the mafia (P#619), which is notably reacted to by *ILS*, *Ottercopter*, and *Mawile*
 *RedneckPhoenix* claims *The Fool* (P#1387)
 *ILS* claims "the magic doc that doesn't go along with Emmy's robot doc" (P#1437)
 *Ottercopter* claims a role where she's "supposed to get lynched" (P#1469)
 *ILS* is lynched, flipping not mafia. (P#1483)
 During this day, *Mr. Ultracool* swaps his role with *Eifie*




*DAY 2 (P#1485 to P#2891)*


Spoiler




 *Boquise* dies, flipping not mafia.  (P#1485)
 "in his bed", "smiling contentedly", "without a mark on him"

 *Negrek* claims that *ILS* was *White Mage* and *Boquise* was *A God Am I*. (P#1492)
 *Ottercopter* claims "vanilla townie until /something/ happens" but if she says what it is, it won't happen (P#1510)
 *MF* claims "what I _think_ my results are telling me is that Mawile (n0) and Negrek (n1) are both town." (P#1767)
 *Vipera Magnifica* claims to have inherited *White Mage*, a standard doctor, with flavor hinting toward another doctor healing with technology (P#1773), clarifies his role's functionality (P#1787)
 *Vipera Magnifica* claims to have gotten an anonymous "strange message" via Butterfree saying "*kyeugh* is not mafia" (P#1824)
 *mewtini* claims mysterious role-related info linking to one of Eifie's clears being clear (lost the link to this post but it's somewhere) 
 *Seshas* says their role was vanilla townie with a bit of info included in their role PM (P#1903)
 *Ottercopter* claims *Thanatos Gambit*, a VT trying to get killed by the mafia. (P#1907) Also claims Death Seeker. (P#4035)
 *Eifie* claims a mechanical town clear on *Mr. Ultracool* (P#2286, P#2326) 
 *Mawile* fake claims Motion Detector. 
He claims N0 *Herbe* no motion, N1 *Vipera Magnifica* motion. (P#2427, P#2469)
 *Herbe* fake claims lovers with *Mawile*, via whoever targeted him first would become his lover, (P#2611) and knowing that *Mawile* was town. (P#2669)

 *Stryke* claims "tech doctor" with "nanobots", N0 *Herbe*, N1 *Vipera Magnifica*. (P#2707) (target justification on P#3103)
 *Stryke* claims his PM says if the magic doctor targets the same person as him, it won't be good (P#2797)
 *Stryke* claims *The Medic* and *Nanomachines* (P#2807)

 *kyeugh* says she remembered "something major" (P#2884) 
 *Odie_pie* is lynched, flipping not mafia. (P#2891)
 During this day, *Eifie* swaps her role with *Keldeo*.




*DAY 3 (P#2892 to P#3587)*


Spoiler




 *Eifie* dies, flipping not mafia. (P#2892)
 "in an alleyway", "doesn't have a mark on her", has a gun

 *Negrek* claims *Odie_pie* was *Mysterious Informant* and *Eifie* was *Vigilante Man*. (P#2897)
 *rari_teh* claims cop /  *Private Detective* and *Stalking Mission*. N0 *Mr. Ultracool* not mafia, N1 *Mawile* mafia, N2 *MF* mafia. (P#2931) Special roles might give a misleading result. (P#3047)
 *kyeugh* claims something made her suspicious of *Mawile* (P#2939)
 *Mawile* fake-claims motion detecting *kokorico* with no movement. (P#2948)
 *kyeugh* claims to know that there is a redirector. (P#2966)
 *MF* fakeclaims possibly insane cop / *Inspector Lestrade* and *Hot Pursuit*. N0 *Mawile* mafia, N1 *Negrek* mafia, N2 *Keldeo* mafia. (P#3023) 
 *Stryke* claims to have healed *Eifie* N2 (P#3067)
 *Mr. Ultracool* claims *Body Snatcher*, who can switch role and alignment with someone else by saying "it's not you, it's me" to them. He swapped with Eifie D1 and became *Mysterious Informant* with the information that there is an evil doctor. (P#3181, P#3182, clarification P#3469)
 *kokorico* claims that *Mawile* shouldn't have received a "no movement" result on them N2. (P#3195)
 *Vipera Magnifica* claims to have healed *kyeugh* N2 (P#3212)
 *Keldeo* confirms Eifie body snatched D2, and started the game as *Non-Action Guy* and *What Kind of Lame Power Is Heart Anyway*, a vanilla town role that would power up. (P#3219)
 *Mawile* essentially outs himself as mafia starting P#3232.
 *Mawile* claims he "can't inherit the mafia head's killing ability" (P#3293), he doesn't know what happened with Jack or Eifie (P#3399)

 *kokorico* claimed to have started the game as *Non Action Guy*, and then became *White Mage* at the start of N2, and healed *Eifie* N2. (P#3304, P#3369)
 *Vipera Magnifica* claims to have confirmed with Butterfree that white magic heal clashes with nanotechnology, while two white mage healers don't clash. (P#3321) 
 *RedneckPhoenix* claims to have roleblocked *ILS* N0, *kyeugh* N1, *Stryke* N2; and his roleblock freezes daytime abilities the following day. (P#3338, P#3347, P#3356)
 *kyeugh* confirms that *RedneckPhoenix* targeted her N1. (P#3363)

 *kyeugh* claims that on N2, *Vipera Magnifica* targeted her and she was targeted with *Nanomachines*. (P#3506)
 *Mawile* claims to be an out-group mafia with a complicated ability involving tampering with information, and targeted *Herbe* N0. (P#3535)
 During this day, *Keldeo* swaps roles with *rari_teh*. 
 *Mawile* is lynched, flipping mafia. (P#3587)




*DAY 4 (P#3588 to P#4009)*


Spoiler




*Negrek* dies, flipping not mafia. (P#3588)
 in the town square, "no marks on her body", has sunglasses and a journal of tropes

 *kokorico* claims to have healed *Keldeo* N3 (P#3605)
 *Stryke* claims to have healed *kokorico* N3 (P#3612) after coinflipping between em and *VM* (P#3661)
 *RedneckPhoenix* claims to have blocked *Stryke* N3. (P#3627)
 *Herbe* claims to be a bitter widower, whose goal is now to live to the end of the game, and that *Mawile* told him he was out-group mafia. (P#3646) He elaborates more on his real role (P#3673,  P#3682)
 *Keldeo* claims to have inspected *Panini* as town N3. (P#3665)
 *Vipera Magnifica* claims to have healed *Stryke* N3. (P#3825)
 *RedneckPhoenix* claims his role trope is *Spanner In The Works*. (P#3962) 
 During this day, *rari_teh* swaps roles with *Ottercopter*. 
 *RedneckPhoenix* is lynched, flipping not mafia. (P#4009)




*DAY 5 (P#4009 to [ongoing])*


Spoiler




 *rari_teh* dies, flipping not mafia. (P#4010)
"by the fountain", "victorious grin", wrote "JUST THE BEGINNING" on the ground

 *kokorico* claims to have healed *VM* N4. (P#4028)
 *Stryke* claims to have healed *MF* N4. (P#4032)
 *VM* claims to have healed *kokorico* N4. (P#4055)


----------



## Keldeo

Couple of questions:

@Herbe - what are your role and power tropes?

@kyeugh - if you're comfortable saying, what was your "something major" that you remembered at the end of Day 2, and how did you still get the info about RNP being a roleblocker on the same night that he roleblocked you?

@Vipera Magnifica - how did you know that Stryke was making a coinflip between yourself and kokorico on Night 3? Did I miss some strategizing somewhere?

@mewtini - if you're comfortable saying, how did you know one of Eifie's clears was true?

@Mist1422 - you wouldn't happen to be a Miller-type role, would you?


----------



## Keldeo

Keldeo said:


> @mewtini - if you're comfortable saying, how did you know one of Eifie's clears was true?


Referring to her hypo-cop clears. This is a super non-urgent question, btw - you really don't need to say if you have any doubts about revealing info.


----------



## mewtini

Keldeo said:


> Keldeo said:
> 
> 
> 
> @mewtini - if you're comfortable saying, how did you know one of Eifie's clears was true?
> 
> 
> 
> Referring to her hypo-cop clears. This is a super non-urgent question, btw - you really don't need to say if you have any doubts about revealing info.
Click to expand...

yeah, i'd rather not say for now, sorry! thanks for cliffs though :0 thank god. i was about to read way back tonight


----------



## Keldeo

Oh also, @kokorico - if your role PM mentions some type of doctor that heals with technology, would you be able to confirm with Butterfree what exactly happens if that doctor and you target the same person?

Are these the only remaining unresolved mechanical situations?
- Why VM inherited ILS's role and not Jack's role on N1
- Who messaged VM with "kyeugh is not mafia" on N1
- How Eifie died on N2, when kokorico magic-healed her and Stryke nanobots-healed her but was blocked by town RNP
- Why kyeugh got the result that VM targeted her and she was targeted with Nanomachines on N3

I'll try and look at some non-mechanical stuff later on today!


----------



## IndigoClaudia

ok just finished reading 
RIP RARI_TEH

(but hey, at least it wasn't me.)


----------



## Stryke

Keldeo said:


> - Who messaged VM with "kyeugh is not mafia" on N1


Obviously we'll never know for sure, but can't this be attributed to Mawile? It's in line with his power, and it seems a lot more likely than any other explanation imo


----------



## Zori

kokorico said:


> Well how about this:
> 
> You heal M&F
> VM coinflip-heals M&F or me
> I coinflip-heal you or VM
> All three of us have a chance of being healed (so the mafia can't safely target us), and we have a 50% shot at offing M&F
> 
> ...or we could just lynch M&F on D5, which seems more straightforward and less risky


@:Keldeo


----------



## qenya

Seshas said:


> There's definitely a wolf on the Phoenix wagon, and according to my previous M&F spew, it can only be kokorico.


something something wolf in the henhouse

full disclosure: I have no idea how to play outgroup properly, obviously couldn't ask anyone for help, and have spent most of the game so far amusing myself by presenting increasingly implausible lies to see how far I had to go before someone scumread me. it was mildly disturbing that _literally zero_ people indicated disbelief when I claimed doctor. smh.

it's been fun! kinda wish it didn't have to end like this (and tbh at this rate I reckon I could have strung y'all along for at least another night or two, since it seems like even seshas was second-guessing themself) but I think I really ought to *Bomb Keldeo* before he reveals his red check. sorry dude, it's not personal. see you around <3


----------



## Zori

LMAO


----------



## Zori

wpwp
That explains the kokoriko/Vipera not reading w/w


----------



## Zori

:salute:
Fun playing with you, kokorico.


----------



## Butterfree

Out of nowhere, surprising everyone, *kokorico* grabs *Keldeo*, pulls out a crude remote with a button on it, and presses the button.

The two of them are simultaneously blown to smithereens.

*kokorico is dead. E was not mafia.

Keldeo is dead. He was not mafia.

Please carry on!*


----------



## IndigoClaudia

WT*


----------



## IndigoClaudia

WHAT JUST HAPPENED!!!>!>!>?!!?


----------



## Zori

Dang
Vipera might not necessarily be Mafia then

This especially points towards Mawile being in-group


----------



## Zori

ftr Keldeo softed his redcheck on Mist


----------



## IndigoClaudia

WHAT JUST HAPPENED?!?!


----------



## IndigoClaudia

*M&F*
would be my best guess
BUT WHAT JUST HAPPENEENDNED NO REALLY!?


----------



## Zori

Kokorico revealed himself as out-group Mafia and sacrificed himself to blow up Keldeo


----------



## IndigoClaudia

...

LOL


----------



## Stryke

Aw shit


----------



## Stryke

Guess that clears up the Eifie situation then haha


----------



## IndigoClaudia

That was unexpected.
(Thank god i don't have the ability to bomb someone because i'd be pretty irresponsible with it).


----------



## Zori

We frag M&F today, Mist tomorrow
We can discuss from there


----------



## IndigoClaudia

I'm still confused from the whole *EXPLOSION *thing.


----------



## Zori

_Town_
Ottercopter
Mr. Ultracool
mewtini

_Probably Town_
kyeugh
Panini

_Maybe Town_
Stryke
IndigoEmmy

_No Read_
Flora
semirachi
Herbe
Vipera

_Mafia_
M&F
Mist1422


----------



## Zori

I'm going to read into Mawile's interactions soon since he may have been in-group


----------



## IndigoClaudia

Seshas said:


> _Maybe Town_
> Stryke
> IndigoEmmy


Why am i _MAYBE Town?_


----------



## Zori

IndigoEmmy said:


> Why am i _MAYBE Town?_


Light Townread + No mechanical confirmation


----------



## Butterfree

IndigoEmmy said:


> I'm still confused from the whole *EXPLOSION *thing.


There is a role called terrorist in the mafia rules sticky; it is mafia-aligned, but does not know the mafia and can't communicate with them. During the day, a terrorist can post *Bomb [player]* to immediately kill both of them.


----------



## IndigoClaudia

But why keldeo?


----------



## Zori

IndigoEmmy said:


> But why keldeo?


Because Keldeo claimed they checked someone as Mafia, but they didn't claim who
It also gets rid of our cop role


----------



## IndigoClaudia

OH NO KELDEO IS ON OUR (the town) SIDE AND NOOOO


----------



## IndigoClaudia

this is very very very very bad.

Thisisververyveryverybadbadbadbadbadbad


----------



## kyeugh




----------



## IndigoClaudia

See! I do have a nicely organized table for mafia!


----------



## kyeugh

Seshas said:


> ftr Keldeo softed his redcheck on Mist


 when was this?


----------



## Zori

Keldeo said:


> @Mist1422 - you wouldn't happen to be a Miller-type role, would you?


However! Not all hope is yet lost!
Miller, on a lot of mafia sites, is a Town role that appears as Mafia to a cop!
I am being overdramatic with exclamation points!


----------



## Ottercopter

So that makes Eifie's death pretty straightforward, huh?

Everyone else kicking themselves right about now too?


----------



## IndigoClaudia

Seshas said:


> I am being overdramatic with exclamation points!


You Are!


----------



## Zori

Ottercopter said:


> So that makes Eifie's death pretty straightforward, huh?
> 
> Everyone else kicking themselves right about now too?


Kicking your self is an integral part of the Mafia experience


----------



## IndigoClaudia

Ok. I'm positive that M&F is mafia. And Mist is suspect too.


----------



## IndigoClaudia

WE CAN'T LYNCH TWO PEOPLE IN ONE DAY!!!


----------



## kyeugh

Keldeo said:


> @kyeugh - if you're comfortable saying, what was your "something major" that you remembered at the end of Day 2, and how did you still get the info about RNP being a roleblocker on the same night that he roleblocked you?


 to answer the late lad’s questions, i basically remembered something i’d forgotten to mention about mawile, that being that his claimed role felt a lot like mine but less useful, which seemed weird. but i didn’t end up saying so bc it required divulging information about my role and i didn’t feel like doing that.

not comfortable saying why i still saw rnp’s visit despite being roleblocked, but it does check out.


----------



## IndigoClaudia

RIP keldeo
*playing funeral march on spotify rn*


----------



## kyeugh

this sucks tbh. i miss keldeo. keldeooooo...


----------



## IndigoClaudia

DUN DUNN DUN
DUNDUNDUN
DUNNNN

*DUNNNNNNNN*


----------



## IndigoClaudia

(I was humming btw)


----------



## IndigoClaudia

(The funeral march is getting on my nerves. I only listened to in for like 2 minutes with Eifie's departure from this world.)

BTW it's not that i wasn't sad about Eifie it's just that she, unlike keldeo served basically no purpose.


----------



## IndigoClaudia

(I sound pretty evil when i say that so i just want to say i'm in no way mafia.)


----------



## IndigoClaudia

IndigoEmmy said:


> (I sound pretty evil when i say that so i just want to say i'm in no way mafia.)


No wait that sounds pretty suspicious anyway... FORGET IT ALL! I'M NOT SUSPICIOUS!!!!


----------



## kyeugh

IndigoEmmy said:


> BTW it's not that i wasn't sad about Eifie it's just that she, unlike keldeo served basically no purpose.


 @Eifie owned


----------



## Mr. Ultracool

Is anybody else confused about the reason Kocorico showed up as a Nonmaf? It could be a piece of evidence confirming JackPK as Outgroup Maf, too


----------



## Stryke

This feels like further confirmation that scumchat is non-existent/mafia folk don't know who the others are


----------



## kyeugh

Stryke said:


> This feels like further confirmation that scumchat is non-existent/mafia folk don't know who the others are


i really doubt this


----------



## Ottercopter

Stryke said:


> This feels like further confirmation that scumchat is non-existent/mafia folk don't know who the others are


Hey, why didn't you vote last night?


----------



## Stryke

kyeugh said:


> Stryke said:
> 
> 
> 
> This feels like further confirmation that scumchat is non-existent/mafia folk don't know who the others are
> 
> 
> 
> i really doubt this
Click to expand...

Yeah it's a bit far-fetched, but we've now had 1 out-group mafia, another likely out-group mafia if the Deadly Doctor thing is true, and another mafia who had no contact with any other scum. That many wolves who seemed to not be in contact with each other just makes me wonder if there even is an organized mafia or if they're all just kinda doing their own thing


----------



## Stryke

Ottercopter said:


> Stryke said:
> 
> 
> 
> This feels like further confirmation that scumchat is non-existent/mafia folk don't know who the others are
> 
> 
> 
> Hey, why didn't you vote last night?
Click to expand...

Didn't know who to vote for, and by the time I figured it out, you guys seemed pretty set on leaving it up to random chance between RNP and MF (or so I had thought), and I thought screwing with that and potentially being the deciding vote at the last second would've made me seem really scummy. For the record, I would've gone MF


----------



## Butterfree

Vote count, now with updated script that actually knows who's dead and leaves them out instead of me manually striking all of them out from the "No vote" list every time:



Spoiler: Full vote history



*mewtini* votes *M&F* (#4012)
*Herbe* votes *M&F* (#4016)
*kyeugh* votes *M&F* (#4018)
*Ottercopter* votes *M&F* (#4031)
*Stryke* votes *M&F* (#4033)
*Vipera Magnifica* votes *M&F* (#4055)
*Seshas* votes *M&F* (#4056)
*IndigoEmmy* votes *M&F* (#4124)





Spoiler: Active votes



*Herbe* votes *M&F* (#4016)
*IndigoEmmy* votes *M&F* (#4124)
*Ottercopter* votes *M&F* (#4031)
*Seshas* votes *M&F* (#4056)
*Stryke* votes *M&F* (#4033)
*Vipera Magnifica* votes *M&F* (#4055)
*kyeugh* votes *M&F* (#4018)
*mewtini* votes *M&F* (#4012)



Vote counts:
*M&F* (8) (Herbe, IndigoEmmy, Ottercopter, Seshas, Stryke, Vipera Magnifica, kyeugh, mewtini)
No vote (6) (Flora, M&F, Mist1422, Mr. Ultracool, Panini, serimachi)


----------



## kyeugh

Stryke said:


> kyeugh said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Stryke said:
> 
> 
> 
> This feels like further confirmation that scumchat is non-existent/mafia folk don't know who the others are
> 
> 
> 
> i really doubt this
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Yeah it's a bit far-fetched, but we've now had 1 out-group mafia, another likely out-group mafia if the Deadly Doctor thing is true, and another mafia who had no contact with any other scum. That many wolves who seemed to not be in contact with each other just makes me wonder if there even is an organized mafia or if they're all just kinda doing their own thing
Click to expand...

i think we’ve basically established that the kill power is heritable, so it’s implicitly held be one person at a time. with that in mind, the only way there could be no in group is if there’s a single guy executing the night kill every night with no council that has somehow evaded detection until now. no in group also suggests no vanilla scum imo, so there’d also be a bunch of power roles operating with no collaboration, and yet the only scum we’ve uncovered so far have come from a lucky cop check or basically random self-owns unrelated to town solving. that’s a lot of unlikely assumptions to make, overwhelmingly favoring scum in what would be imo a fairly town-sided setup, and the only evidence is that there are some outgroup members. just can’t see this being true.

the more likely explanation is that outgroup members are dropping faster bc they lack the insider knowledge of the in the ingroup thus making it easier for them to slip up, they aren’t being covered by their team, and the ingroup doesn’t know not to lynch them (unless the ingroup somehow has oneway knowledge of the outgroup members, which i find unlikey given the circumstances) and is simply jumping on easy wagons.


----------



## IndigoClaudia

*nods and looks like i know what's going on here*


----------



## Ottercopter

Keldeo said:


> TV Tropes Mafia Revival, Day 11. Every post ends with "it's not you, it's me." The mafia and Butterfree are maintaining separate spreadsheets to track each swap. No one knows who has the body snatcher role, or even if it's still alive. It's not you, it's me - I hope we can still be friends.


Okay, so i know this was a joke, but is anyone willing to do this sort of thing? Because I'm gonna have to start the bodyswapping chain at some point, and multi-quoting seems like the way to go.

(Also, as a confirmed townie who knows how the power works now, and the closest thing we now have to an inspector (F's for Keldeo ;-;), I'm gonna go ahead and request that a doctor protect me tonight. Although we'll have to decide who in advance so I don't get healer clashed, lol.)


----------



## Ottercopter

(God, following this chain is gonna be awful)


----------



## Zori

My most urgent alignment-solve pool is [Flora/Vipera/semirachi]
Vipera is the choice from there that lets us get the role back if he's town


----------



## Zori

I wouldn't mind copping Indigo either


----------



## Ottercopter

Seshas said:


> My most urgent alignment-solve pool is [Flora/Vipera/semirachi]
> Vipera is the choice from there that lets us get the role back if he's town


I don't think we should go for Serimachi or especially Flora. Swapping with an inactive is tantamount to abandoning the bodyswap. Might be worth considering on a later day, but I think it's definitely too soon for that as things are now.


----------



## Zori

Ottercopter said:


> I don't think we should go for Serimachi or especially Flora. Swapping with an inactive is tantamount to abandoning the bodyswap. Might be worth considering on a later day, but I think it's definitely too soon for that as things are now.


[Vipera/Emmy]


----------



## IndigoClaudia

I have been involved in no such shenanigans.


----------



## Novae

good morning tbh!

I may or may not have forgotten this game existed


----------



## Zori

Mist1422 said:


> good morning tbh!
> 
> I may or may not have forgotten this game existed


Keldeo has a redcheck on you


----------



## IndigoClaudia

same here tbh


----------



## Novae

Seshas said:


> Mist1422 said:
> 
> 
> 
> good morning tbh!
> 
> I may or may not have forgotten this game existed
> 
> 
> 
> Keldeo has a redcheck on you
Click to expand...

that seems pretty implausible given that I'm town


----------



## Zori

IndigoEmmy said:


> same here tbh


Keldeo has a redcheck on you too


----------



## IndigoClaudia

What is a redcheck??? I'm not in the know of mafia stuff but this feels bad.


----------



## Zori

IndigoEmmy said:


> What is a redcheck??? I'm not in the know of mafia stuff but this feels bad.


A redcheck is an inspection, usually by a cop, that the target is mafia


----------



## Zori

Seriously though
do you have any overall game thoughts

Keldeo made some game cliff notes a few pages back that I can link


----------



## IndigoClaudia

Do i look/seem/sound like mafia to you?


----------



## IndigoClaudia

Keldeo cliffnotes time!


----------



## Zori

IndigoEmmy said:


> Do i look/seem/sound like mafia to you?


I crossed it out because it was a joke


----------



## IndigoClaudia

Oh durrr.


----------



## Zori

__





						Forum Revival TV Tropes Mafia Revival - D7
					

hi guys, I forgot about the game until such a point as when checking in would have been too much executive dysfunction  do I want to bother finding out about the reasoning for my lynching  Hi MF!! I hope all's well!  Rari inspected you as mafia and just now flipped town, so I think you're the...




					forums.dragonflycave.com


----------



## IndigoClaudia

But yes i would definitely say that Mist is redcheck worthy.


----------



## Zori

and he's gone


----------



## kyeugh

he will be mist.
(did someone already make this joke)


----------



## Zori

kyeugh said:


> he will be mist.
> (did someone already make this joke)


almost certainly


----------



## IndigoClaudia

Guys i was reading keldeo cliff notes

What did i mist?


----------



## mewtini

kyeugh said:


> this sucks tbh. i miss keldeo. keldeooooo...


bruh :((((((((((((((((



mewtini said:


> Keldeo said:
> 
> 
> 
> I got a red check last night. Good times.
> 
> 
> 
> oh?!
Click to expand...

man i wish this q got answered. rest in power, king keldeo


----------



## Zori

IndigoEmmy said:


> Guys i was reading keldeo cliff notes
> 
> What did i mist?


[Insert rest of Hamilton Play]


----------



## IndigoClaudia

Wouldn't it be a weird twist if i turned out to be mafia. I mean i'm not mafia but it would be weird anyway.


----------



## Zori

IndigoEmmy said:


> Wouldn't it be a weird twist if i turned out to be mafia. I mean i'm not mafia but it would be weird anyway.


Deja Vu?


----------



## IndigoClaudia

Deja vu for what?


----------



## mewtini

Seshas said:


> _Town_
> Ottercopter
> Mr. Ultracool
> mewtini
> 
> _Probably Town_
> kyeugh
> Panini
> 
> _Maybe Town_
> Stryke
> IndigoEmmy


this may be a counterproductive question but what is your distinction between town/probably town? i realize this is like. weird to ask. i'm kind of confused because if i were like, Not Myself, i don't know that i'd rank myself over panini or emmy when i haven't been involved in anything mechanically confirming (and your other two top-tier reads both have mech clears)


----------



## Zori

IndigoEmmy said:


> (I sound pretty evil when i say that so i just want to say i'm in no way mafia.)





IndigoEmmy said:


> IndigoEmmy said:
> 
> 
> 
> (I sound pretty evil when i say that so i just want to say i'm in no way mafia.)
> 
> 
> 
> No wait that sounds pretty suspicious anyway... FORGET IT ALL! I'M NOT SUSPICIOUS!!!!
Click to expand...




IndigoEmmy said:


> Wouldn't it be a weird twist if i turned out to be mafia. I mean i'm not mafia but it would be weird anyway.


----------



## IndigoClaudia

Oh gosh... i'm suspicious.


----------



## Zori

mewtini said:


> this may be a counterproductive question but what is your distinction between town/probably town? i realize this is like. weird to ask. i'm kind of confused because if i were like, Not Myself, i don't know that i'd rank myself over panini or emmy when i haven't been involved in anything mechanically confirming (and your other two top-tier reads both have mech clears)


Town: Mechanically cleared or have been acting extremely townie
Probably Town: Have been acting fairly townie, could be mafia, but I doubt it
Maybe Town: Have been acting sort of townie, can be mafia, but quite a few people to lynch before them


----------



## mewtini

btw in light of kokorico i agree with everyone else (to the point of this maybe not being worth saying, but if y'all haven't noticed i have a need to Talk A Lot) that uh. insane reevaluation is in order

with the awkward context of the post right above me, can people re-convince me that emmy is town? i know my (very experimental) push on her in early game was dumb at the time but now i'm a little squinty paranoid again

agree w seshas that getting VM/seri/flora figured out is. good
does outgroup kokorico mean that stryke is just a question mark? (also why tf did e flip non-maf? is the theory that mawile was lying about being outgroup? ... also this reopens the possibility of jack being mafia)


----------



## mewtini

mewtini said:


> with the awkward context of the post right above me,


ok this post was no longer above me by the time seshas posted. it was funnier before.


----------



## Zori

I'm personally not convinced but I should probably re-look at interactions with M&F


----------



## IndigoClaudia

*M&F* is s u s p i c i o u s.


----------



## Ottercopter

mewtini said:


> with the awkward context of the post right above me, can people re-convince me that emmy is town? i know my (very experimental) push on her in early game was dumb at the time but now i'm a little squinty paranoid again


If we're assuming that JackPK was the evil doctor (and outgroup), then there's not much basis for IndigoEmmy as mafia to get the MI tidbit about how there are nanomachine and magic doctors. All we had to go on at the time was that Negrek confirmed JackPK was a Deadly Doctor, and that doesn't necessarily hint at that. I dunno why the mafia would know otherwise. Honestly, between the two, Seshas's "The mafia have someone pulling the strings behind the curtain" is a much less certain bit of information. 
(I'm still not giving Mawile's post any credence)


----------



## Zori

Ottercopter said:


> If we're assuming that JackPK was the evil doctor (and outgroup), then there's not much basis for IndigoEmmy as mafia to get the MI tidbit about how there are nanomachine and magic doctors. All we had to go on at the time was that Negrek confirmed JackPK was a Deadly Doctor, and that doesn't necessarily hint at that. I dunno why the mafia would know otherwise. Honestly, between the two, Seshas's "The mafia have someone pulling the strings behind the curtain" is a much less certain bit of information.
> (I'm still not giving Mawile's post any credence)


I mean, it's possible Emmy is a *Subverted Trope: Mysterious Informant* or something like that


----------



## Novae

Sorry I had an assignment due literally right now that I forgot about

Lemme read the cliffsnotes


----------



## Zori

yay he's back


----------



## Novae

Oh yeah I do remember thinking RNP was probably a third party lyncher/executioner because of his death flavor


----------



## mewtini

IndigoEmmy said:


> *M&F* is s u s p i c i o u s.


hehe just to clarify we are voting MF either way, i think (if we aren't, i WILL guilt trip you guys with keldeo's _last words,_ as seen below!) but we still need to figure out where tf we're going after this



Keldeo said:


> If we have a mechanically confirmed mafia on the table, I think it's probably best to just lynch the mafia over anyone else. Even if we seem to have some way to vig the mafia or we're not sure of the confirm.





Ottercopter said:


> Honestly, between the two, Seshas's "The mafia have someone pulling the strings behind the curtain" is a much less certain bit of information.


i still think that even if you ignore mawile's post (which is what i'm now doing as well) seshas' MI tidbit is still so not a reason to suspect them when mafia probably do have at least some distortion role and i think their other behavior has been nonsuspect and not at all feeling like a fake. i hear you on the doctor situation though, i just don't think emmy sounds uncoached and she is one of the active players - part of why i backed off (aside from it being way too early for me to have pushed on her way back when) was that the MI role seemed really dumb for a mafiosa to have lol. i'm not like, scumleaning her really, i just don't feel confident about her still and i think we need to be looking at everyone all over again. beginning with low-confidence reads


----------



## kyeugh

mewtini said:


> also this reopens the possibility of jack being mafia


i thought we were pretty much agreed this was likely the case


----------



## mewtini

kyeugh said:


> mewtini said:
> 
> 
> 
> also this reopens the possibility of jack being mafia
> 
> 
> 
> i thought we were pretty much agreed this was likely the case
Click to expand...

i thought so too but there was some brief doubt, i think, if VM lied or something? idk. i may be making things up accidentally


----------



## Zori

Emmy can be town for now until we find something incriminating


----------



## kyeugh

there was but i think vm's post about why it wouldn't make sense for him to have lied cleared it up pretty well


----------



## mewtini

yeah that's how i feel. i just feel like she never settled into confirmed town for me like she did for everyone else so i wanted to bring it back up


----------



## kyeugh

Seshas said:


> Emmy can be town for now until we find something incriminating





IndigoEmmy said:


> Oh gosh... i'm suspicious.


----------



## Zori

We now know for a fact that out-group flips as non-mafia
Speculating on Jack's alignment seems kind of pointless since we get literally no interactions from it


----------



## Novae

Right so

I haven't been reading closely enough to have any thoughts but I do have a claim that should explain a couple minor things


----------



## IndigoClaudia

How would one be a Subverted Mysterious Informant?


----------



## Zori

IndigoEmmy said:


> How would one be a Subverted Mysterious Informant?


Mysterious informant that pretends to give the good guys info, but secretly he works for the bad guy
or something like that


----------



## Zori

page-changes always catch me by surprise tbh


----------



## IndigoClaudia

Oh no that is pretty mysterious. 

As cool as that sounds I am 100% townaligned. ;D


----------



## Novae

seshas since you seem to have been elected thread captain do you want me to claim


----------



## Zori

Mist1422 said:


> Right so
> 
> I haven't been reading closely enough to have any thoughts but I do have a claim that should explain a couple minor things


inb4 Chem just doesn't tell us until we explicitly ask


----------



## Zori

Mist1422 said:


> seshas since you seem to have been elected thread captain do you want me to claim


yes
you can't just say "this will clear up some important stuff" and then not claim :P


----------



## mewtini

Mist1422 said:


> seshas since you seem to have been elected thread captain do you want me to claim


seshas can't be thread captain! _i'm_ thread captain!


----------



## IndigoClaudia

OOh please claim.


----------



## IndigoClaudia

mewtini said:


> Mist1422 said:
> 
> 
> 
> seshas since you seem to have been elected thread captain do you want me to claim
> 
> 
> 
> seshas can't be thread captain! _i'm_ thread captain!
Click to expand...


Mewtini or Seshas can't be thread captain! I'm thread captain


----------



## Novae

Seshas said:


> Mist1422 said:
> 
> 
> 
> seshas since you seem to have been elected thread captain do you want me to claim
> 
> 
> 
> yes
> you can't just say "this will clear up some important stuff" and then not claim :P
Click to expand...

to be fair I said they were minor things


----------



## IndigoClaudia

Minor things are good.


----------



## kyeugh

mewtini said:


> Mist1422 said:
> 
> 
> 
> seshas since you seem to have been elected thread captain do you want me to claim
> 
> 
> 
> seshas can't be thread captain! _i'm_ thread captain!
Click to expand...

it seems there has been a... mutini.


----------



## IndigoClaudia

Any info helps. It's roleclaim time! (For you)


----------



## Novae

So my trope is the Amateur Sleuth. I'm basically a backup cop, I get the ability to investigate someone's alignment each night once the main cop dies

I was informed at the start of the day that I gained this ability at the end of last night, so rari was telling the truth about their claim (which I was already 99% sure on)


----------



## mewtini

kyeugh said:


> it seems there has been a... mutini.


Actually, sadly, it's based on um, Mewtwo and Victini. You see, I made this username when I was nine, and-


----------



## kyeugh

bruh moment


----------



## IndigoClaudia

Oh very cool. I thought you were mafia and i was planning on voting to lynch you either tommorow or today. (Mafia days)
Now i know that you are not to be lynched.


----------



## IndigoClaudia

mewtini said:


> Actually, sadly, it's based on um, Mewtwo and Victini. You see, I made this username when I was nine, and-


WAIT it's not mew!?!


----------



## Novae

since my role is outed we should probably make a PoE for people I should check

unless there already is one that I just haven't seen yet in which case

lol


----------



## Zori

Mist1422 said:


> So my trope is the Amateur Sleuth. I'm basically a backup cop, I get the ability to investigate someone's alignment each night once the main cop dies
> 
> I was informed at the start of the day that I gained this ability at the end of last night, so rari was telling the truth about their claim (which I was already 99% sure on)


Sorry Chem
1 - Due to Body Snatcher :TM: mechanics, Rari was Thanatos Gambit
2 - The cop died during the day, so you can't have gotten the notification at the end of the night
3 - Keldeo's redcheck was legitimate, I didn't make it up


----------



## IndigoClaudia

I feel conforted by the fact that the only (probably) known mafia is *M&F. *

But, to be fair, i am one of the most gullible people ever so i don't think i can trust everyone here.


----------



## kyeugh




----------



## IndigoClaudia

Seshas said:


> Mist1422 said:
> 
> 
> 
> So my trope is the Amateur Sleuth. I'm basically a backup cop, I get the ability to investigate someone's alignment each night once the main cop dies
> 
> I was informed at the start of the day that I gained this ability at the end of last night, so rari was telling the truth about their claim (which I was already 99% sure on)
> 
> 
> 
> Sorry Chem
> 1 - Due to Body Snatcher :TM: mechanics, Rari was Thanatos Gambit
> 2 - The cop died during the day, so you can't have gotten the notification at the end of the night
> 3 - Keldeo's redcheck was legitimate, I didn't make it up
Click to expand...


ARE YOU SAYING MIST IS LYING


----------



## Novae

you fool...you've activated my trap card!

_runs away_


----------



## Zori

GTG for now, but Chemist's claim literally doesn't line up with any of the facts


----------



## IndigoClaudia

*Mist1422*


----------



## Novae

okay fine you got me

but there's no way the red check is real anyway


----------



## kyeugh

Mist1422 said:


> okay fine you got me
> 
> but there's no way the red check is real anyway


----------



## Novae

hardclaim third party

will come back with details once I can think of something to fool y'all into granting me my wincon


----------



## mewtini

IndigoEmmy said:


> WAIT it's not mew!?!


i don't like mew :>

i started typing qs for mist and then that went sideways. F


----------



## IndigoClaudia

*HANG THEM IN TOWN SQUARE*


----------



## IndigoClaudia

mewtini said:


> i don't like mew :>


Mew is so cute though. And badass, kinda.


----------



## Novae

consider

you have an outed mafia, why not hang them today and either vig me tonight or hang me tomorrow if there's no vig


----------



## Ottercopter

Mist1422 said:


> will come back with details once I can think of something to fool y'all into granting me my wincon


Speaking of wincons, I know it's my own fault, but I'm still slightly bitter that I threw away my own wincon on day 1 and Rari_teh achieved theirs on the night that they got it.


----------



## Novae

let me lolcat goshdarnit


----------



## IndigoClaudia

Hey that's a good idea follow what the mafia says but at the same time she isn't wrong.

*"Is there a VIGILANTE in the house?"*


----------



## mewtini

uh. ... we should still lynch MF first


IndigoEmmy said:


> *HANG THEM IN TOWN SQUARE*


remember: late keldeo's words. i will not tolerate this


----------



## mewtini

ok i missed the redcheck on keldeo. wtf


----------



## IndigoClaudia

mewtini said:


> remember: late keldeo's words. i will not tolerate this


I'm clueless as to what to remember tbh i don't even remember most the game XD
so what am i supposed to be be remember from late keldeo.


----------



## Novae

I'm saying I'm not mafia lol I'm third party

Not town-aligned or incentivized to help town, but


----------



## IndigoClaudia

*M&F*

(And also *Mist *is very very suspicious)


----------



## Novae

And yeah

*M&F*


----------



## IndigoClaudia

Mist1422 said:


> I'm saying I'm not mafia lol I'm third party
> 
> Not town-aligned or incentivized to help town, but


----------



## kyeugh

IndigoEmmy said:


> mewtini said:
> 
> 
> 
> remember: late keldeo's words. i will not tolerate this
> 
> 
> 
> I'm clueless as to what to remember tbh i don't even remember most the game XD
> so what am i supposed to be be remember from late keldeo.
Click to expand...


----------



## Novae

Yeah

I'm pretty proud of my fakeclaim though I think it was scraped together well


----------



## IndigoClaudia

Ok i believe mist. She's not mafia but she better help us if she doesn't want to die.


----------



## mewtini

IndigoEmmy said:


> so what am i supposed to be be remember from late keldeo.


lynch mechanically confirmed mafia!!!


----------



## Novae

IndigoEmmy said:


> Ok i believe mist. She's not mafia but she better help us if she doesn't want to die.


butbutbut

okay fine, for now


----------



## kyeugh

mewtini said:


> IndigoEmmy said:
> 
> 
> 
> so what am i supposed to be be remember from late keldeo.
> 
> 
> 
> lynch mechanically confirmed mafia!!!
Click to expand...

is mist not mechanically confirmed by keldeo himself tbh


----------



## kyeugh

i should've known keldeo was going to die bc he had information that he was going to reveal later.  fucking classic writing.  ned stark moment


----------



## Ottercopter

IndigoEmmy said:


> Ok i believe mist. She's not mafia but she better help us if she doesn't want to die.


I don't! Mist is next. Unless we learn something game changing on this night phase.


----------



## Novae

kyeugh said:


> mewtini said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> IndigoEmmy said:
> 
> 
> 
> so what am i supposed to be be remember from late keldeo.
> 
> 
> 
> lynch mechanically confirmed mafia!!!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> is mist not mechanically confirmed by keldeo himself tbh
Click to expand...

I am mechanically confirmed non-town but that's weird because I should have investigated as innocent

mysterious indeed


----------



## mewtini

by the way, i've been thinking about keldeo's (lol) question for me and i don't see a reason not to say it. was just scared of being too rash while half-asleep last night since it was like 3am when we were talking



Keldeo said:


> @mewtini - if you're comfortable saying, how did you know one of Eifie's clears was true?


i got a whisper like VM's about ultracool on n2. wanted to wait to see if ultracool actually seemed trustworthy, and he ended up claiming bodysnatcher which seemed legit to me but i wasn't sure if it was info i should reveal or not after seeing how VM's whispertalk seemed to rile up some worry


----------



## kyeugh

Mist1422 said:


> I am mechanically confirmed non-town but that's weird because I should have investigated as innocent
> 
> mysterious indeed


to yourself maybe but if keldeo flipped red on you, you are just as incriminated as mf is as far as i'm concerned.  desu.  you even both tried to claim cop!


----------



## mewtini

mewtini said:


> wanted to wait to see if ultracool actually seemed trustworthy,


this is also why i didn't elaborate on _which_ clear i knew about (at the time i just said "one of them seems valid" and then mist's ended up being cop cover). was waiting 4 Evidence. which seems to have panned out in all respects?


----------



## Novae

before I stop being serious, I would like a question for you all to ponder

if I'm not helping town, why do I care so much about M&F dying today instead of me?

think on that for a bit.


----------



## Novae

kyeugh said:


> Mist1422 said:
> 
> 
> 
> I am mechanically confirmed non-town but that's weird because I should have investigated as innocent
> 
> mysterious indeed
> 
> 
> 
> to yourself maybe but if keldeo flipped red on you, you are just as incriminated as mf is as far as i'm concerned.  desu.  you even both tried to claim cop!
Click to expand...

fair enough, but I'm being more ~mysterious~ about it c:


----------



## kyeugh

Mist1422 said:


> if I'm not helping town, why do I care so much about M&F dying today instead of me?


----------



## IndigoClaudia

*M&F*
is currently our top priority.

For now.


----------



## kyeugh

hard read mist is not town


----------



## IndigoClaudia

kyeugh said:


> hard read mist is not town


Litterally any read mist is not town.


----------



## mewtini

kyeugh said:


> hard read mist is not town


isn't this confirmed now tbh
either way it doesn't supersede an MF lynch right? i think i'm missing why you're saying mist is equally mech confirmed


----------



## kyeugh

mewtini said:


> kyeugh said:
> 
> 
> 
> hard read mist is not town
> 
> 
> 
> isn't this confirmed now tbh
Click to expand...

it was a joke bro :(


mewtini said:


> either way it doesn't supersede an MF lynch right? i think i'm missing why you're saying mist is equally mech confirmed


in what way are they not equally mech confirmed?  both of the confirmations are based on a red check from a cop.  from the same cop role actually.  there's no difference between their statuses except for that keldeo was less explicit with his check than rari was with theirs


----------



## IndigoClaudia

If only keldeo were here.


----------



## mewtini

kyeugh said:


> in what way are they not equally mech confirmed? both of the confirmations are based on a red check from a cop. from the same cop role actually. there's no difference between their statuses except for that keldeo was less explicit with his check than rari was with theirs


ohhh. yeah sorry, i literally just wasn't following discussion/got lost in everything - i didn't see keldeo's mist redcheck


----------



## IndigoClaudia

Can i make an unnoficial redcheck?


----------



## kyeugh

IndigoEmmy said:


> Can i make an unnoficial redcheck?


n... no


----------



## IndigoClaudia

Awww.... :C


----------



## Novae

IndigoEmmy said:


> Can i make an unnoficial redcheck?


yes


----------



## kyeugh

Mist1422 said:


> IndigoEmmy said:
> 
> 
> 
> Can i make an unnoficial redcheck?
> 
> 
> 
> yes
Click to expand...


----------



## IndigoClaudia

Fine then.

*-M&F
-MIST IS ALSO SUSPICIOUS.*

My work is done.


----------



## kyeugh




----------



## IndigoClaudia

mewtini said:


> on um, Mewtwo


----------



## IndigoClaudia

This is a serious level of memery we have achieved here.


----------



## IndigoClaudia

So wait, to clarify.

@Mist1422 What is your actual role?


----------



## mewtini

IndigoEmmy said:


> @Mist1422 What is your actual role?


that's what they're coming up with rn


Mist1422 said:


> will come back with details once I can think of something to fool y'all into granting me my wincon


----------



## Ottercopter

kyeugh said:


> n... no





mewtini said:


> ok i missed the redcheck on keldeo. wtf





Panini said:


> b) means nothing up til the buzzer, since it's entirely possible that he's just saying he won't vote for the sake of numbers





Vipera Magnifica said:


> if you feel it's necessary you can inspect me, swap me, whatever it is you need to do to put this issue to rest


Okay, this seems like a good group of townie-reading people and ones that we're curious about, right? It's not you, it's me.


----------



## IndigoClaudia

Hmmm... This is very bad


----------



## IndigoClaudia

You don't think i am a townie?


----------



## mewtini

IndigoEmmy said:


> Hmmm... This is very bad


what is?



Ottercopter said:


> Okay, this seems like a good group of townie-reading people and ones that we're curious about, right? It's not you, it's me.


do we know what happens if multiple people get quoted? i.e. should one of us now be passing it or is it left to God Butterfree to put it on someone


----------



## Zori

Well that was productive


----------



## Ottercopter

I do! Please assume you're the target and keep passing it.

Panini and Ultracool might know? It wasn't explicit in the role PM, but Butterfree did answer me when I asked her about it last night. I don't think any of us should clarify it either way.


----------



## mewtini

IndigoEmmy said:


> You don't think i am a townie?


no no. it's not you, it's me!


----------



## IndigoClaudia

mewtini said:


> IndigoEmmy said:
> 
> 
> 
> You don't think i am a townie?
> 
> 
> 
> no no. it's not you, it's me!
Click to expand...

You're not a townie?


----------



## Ottercopter

I'm hoping to follow the chain closely enough that I'll know who got swapped tomorrow. If anyone says anything inconsistent with that, I'll be able to FoS it. That's my plan, anyway.

(Sorry, Butterfree)


----------



## IndigoClaudia

*PLEASE BODY SWAP WITH ME I WANNA KNOW WHAT BODY SWAPPING IS*


----------



## IndigoClaudia

*IS LIKE. I WANT TO KNOW AND I'D ALSO BE CONSIDERABLY LESS SUSPICIOUS*


----------



## IndigoClaudia

*IF I WAS BODYSWAPPED*


----------



## mewtini

IndigoEmmy said:


> *PLEASE BODY SWAP WITH ME I WANNA KNOW WHAT BODY SWAPPING IS*


i did swap with you! (well, if i was the target.) you quote and say 'it's not you, it's me' somewhere in the reply post


----------



## Novae

wait does the bodyswap swap alignments as well


----------



## mewtini

Mist1422 said:


> wait does the bodyswap swap alignments as well


unknown but maybe? supposedly yes


----------



## Novae

now I'm curious as to how that would work with me


----------



## IndigoClaudia

WAIT I DID GET BODYSWAPPED!?


----------



## IndigoClaudia

Ok whats my role now.

AM i no longer a townie?


----------



## mewtini

IndigoEmmy said:


> WAIT I DID GET BODYSWAPPED!?


you keep passing it along :)


----------



## Novae

it's like hot potato!


----------



## IndigoClaudia

Oh that makes sense. I think i'll keep this for a little while, but i can't wait to swap soon.


----------



## Ottercopter

Mist:
Well, Rari_teh got my role when I had a slightly different win condition than the rest of the town, so... yeah, within limits. I doubt it can be done to in-group mafia.

And I don't suggest that anyone pass it along to you, for what it's worth. IndigoEmmy, I know you're curious too, but please pass the quote along as well. It could be to multiple people, like one of the confirmed innocents (Mr. Ultracool, Panini, or me), the one who passed it to you, or someone you're curious about, but you should keep it going. If someone wants to give it back to you later, you can. You've already voiced your interest in it and all. 

For now, treat it as though you are a body swapper. If you quote someone with the phrase "it's not you, it's me," then they'll take your old role and you'll get theirs.


----------



## IndigoClaudia

Mist1422 said:


> it's like hot potato!


Have you ever played hot potato with a very hot potato? It hurts your hands when you get the potato?

Idk why i thought of that.


----------



## IndigoClaudia

I see... I'm curious as to what would happen when i swap with mist.
But i don't wanna be lynched. If mist really is that suspicious.


----------



## Novae

I also would really like to see what happens but I don't think you'd enjoy it very much


----------



## IndigoClaudia

Than I will not swap with you mist.


----------



## IndigoClaudia

I'm confused now?


----------



## IndigoClaudia

Aww darn no one felll for my bait where they say "About what" and i say. "No it's not me, it's you who's confused" and then i bodyswap. :D


----------



## IndigoClaudia

I mean it's not you it's me lol


----------



## Ottercopter

About what?


----------



## IndigoClaudia

Also btw if someone sees that and does it intentionally i'm not swapping :P


----------



## IndigoClaudia

This officially puts Ottercopter in my suspicious book.


----------



## mewtini

IndigoEmmy said:


> Also btw if someone sees that and does it intentionally i'm not swapping :P


??


----------



## IndigoClaudia

PEOPLE SAY SOMETHING SO I CAN BODYSWAAAP ALREADY


----------



## mewtini

IndigoEmmy said:


> PEOPLE SAY SOMETHING SO I CAN BODYSWAAAP ALREADY


if you have people in mind you can always dredge up an older post tbh


----------



## Zori

IndigoEmmy said:


> PEOPLE SAY SOMETHING SO I CAN BODYSWAAAP ALREADY


Banana


----------



## IndigoClaudia

mewtini said:


> IndigoEmmy said:
> 
> 
> 
> Also btw if someone sees that and does it intentionally i'm not swapping :P
> 
> 
> 
> ??
Click to expand...

Well you see Ottercopter must WANT to swap witch is suspicious.


----------



## mewtini

IndigoEmmy said:


> Well you see Ottercopter must WANT to swap witch is suspicious.


why is it suspicious. she's held the bodyswap role this whole time


----------



## IndigoClaudia

Seshas said:


> Banana


It's not me, it's youbanana

(Does this still count)


----------



## Zori

Well yes but actually they're confirmed town


----------



## IndigoClaudia

Oh yeah....


----------



## IndigoClaudia

I honestly might do mist... if the youbanana thing didn't count.

Did it?


----------



## IndigoClaudia

mewtini said:


> IndigoEmmy said:
> 
> 
> 
> Well you see Ottercopter must WANT to swap witch is suspicious.
> 
> 
> 
> why is it suspicious. she's held the bodyswap role this whole time
Click to expand...

Ahh my bad. BUT STILL


----------



## IndigoClaudia

IndigoEmmy said:


> I honestly might do mist... if the youbanana thing didn't count.
> 
> Did it?


DID IT?


----------



## mewtini

IndigoEmmy said:


> DID IT?


idk. lol. i believe that that's up to butterfree.

why mist?


----------



## IndigoClaudia

Because she is "Some sort of Third-Party thing" and i want to see what Mist's Wincon is.


----------



## Zori

Vipera Magnifica said:


> i'm not going to deny a lot of weird stuff has happened around me so i can't really blame you for scumreading me but i explained earlier in a longpost why i couldn't be mafia





kyeugh said:


> i really doubt this





Butterfree said:


> Vote count, now with updated script that actually knows who's dead and leaves them out instead of me manually striking all of them out from the "No vote" list every time:
> 
> 
> 
> Ottercopter said:
> 
> 
> 
> I don't think we should go for Serimachi or especially Flora. Swapping with an inactive is tantamount to abandoning the bodyswap. Might be worth considering on a later day, but I think it's definitely too soon for that as things are now.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Stryke said:
> 
> 
> 
> I thought screwing with that and potentially being the deciding vote at the last second would've made me seem really scummy.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It's not you, it's me!
> It's not me, it's you!
> It's not that I can't remember which one it is!
Click to expand...


----------



## Zori

frick that messed up



Vipera Magnifica said:


> i'm not going to deny a lot of weird stuff has happened around me so i can't really blame you for scumreading me but i explained earlier in a longpost why i couldn't be mafia





kyeugh said:


> i really doubt this





Butterfree said:


> Vote count, now with updated script that actually knows who's dead and leaves them out instead of me manually striking all of them out from the "No vote" list every time:





Ottercopter said:


> I don't think we should go for Serimachi or especially Flora. Swapping with an inactive is tantamount to abandoning the bodyswap. Might be worth considering on a later day, but I think it's definitely too soon for that as things are now.





Stryke said:


> I thought screwing with that and potentially being the deciding vote at the last second would've made me seem really scummy.


It's not you, it's me!
It's not me, it's you!
It's not that I can't remember which one it is!


----------



## IndigoClaudia

So it did work, you switched to someone else, and now i'm bodyswapped and i have a new role? what the heck?


----------



## Zori

I think Butterfree has a role that's immune to being swapped


----------



## IndigoClaudia

My mind is dead, blown, exploded, imploded and Whaaat


----------



## IndigoClaudia

I'm jus' gonna wait for my role PM for now... 0.o


----------



## mewtini

IndigoEmmy said:


> I'm jus' gonna wait for my role PM for now... 0.o


just to clarify. we don't even know if you/seshas got the swapping power! i might not have had it (because otter quoted multiple people when she swapped)


----------



## IndigoClaudia

wwwwwhhheheeeehehehehehehehehheeh


----------



## mewtini

IndigoEmmy said:


> wwwwwhhheheeeehehehehehehehehheeh


quoting a post and saying _the phrase_ swaps roles, but it can continue to be swapped.

we don't know what happens if you quote multiple people and say the phrase. it chooses one person to swap with, but we don't know who! meaning that when otter quoted me, i COULD have been swapped with, but i don't know if that's the case or not

(as in, otter/panini/someone else knows, but most of us don't. i certainly don't)


----------



## IndigoClaudia

Ok that makes sense. I'll still be waiting for my role PM to clear this up though.


----------



## mewtini

IndigoEmmy said:


> Ok that makes sense. I'll still be waiting for my role PM to clear this up though.


yeah. i was just clarifying because i'm pretty sure it's likely you don't get such a PM (in the event that you didn't actually get swapped with)


----------



## IndigoClaudia

IndigoEmmy said:


> wwwwwhhheheeeehehehehehehehehheeh


----------



## Zori

I also think the PM comes at EoD, but I'm not sure


----------



## Ottercopter

You're not gonna get a PM (if you do) until the day's over, yeah. It would be kinda difficult for Butterfree otherwise, and also kinda busted. "You're the swapper now- no, wait, you're the doctor no- Uh, a bodyguard...?" And a failed swap from the mafia would become obvious immediately.


----------



## Zori

Ottercopter and Mr Ultracool know the chain, and we can see where it breaks, or if it breaks, in the morning


----------



## kyeugh

Seshas said:


> Ottercopter and Mr Ultracool know the chain, and we can see where it breaks, or if it breaks, in the morning


it’s not you, it’s me. it’s not me, it’s us.


----------



## IndigoClaudia

It's not Meow. It's us.


----------



## Stryke

kyeugh said:


> Seshas said:
> 
> 
> 
> Ottercopter and Mr Ultracool know the chain, and we can see where it breaks, or if it breaks, in the morning
> 
> 
> 
> it’s not you, it’s me. it’s not me, it’s us.
Click to expand...

Maybe it's Maybelline


----------



## kyeugh

does swapping actually perform every swap that was made and give everyone involved the appropriate information, or does it only provide information from the last effective swap?


----------



## Zori

kyeugh said:


> does swapping actually perform every swap that was made and give everyone involved the appropriate information, or does it only provide information from the last effective swap?


I'd assume it gives info to everyone who got a new role


----------



## Novae

Huh?


----------



## Mr. Ultracool

IndigoEmmy said:


> DID IT?


Probably not. The _Phrase _is "It's not me, it's you" instead of "It's not you, it's me", after all.


----------



## Mr. Ultracool

Mist1422 said:


> you have an outed mafia, why not hang them today and either vig me tonight or hang me tomorrow if there's no vig


Well, doing otherwise would basically boil down to a repeat of the Healcircusviggplan, and we should probably not try that one again considering how it went.



Mist1422 said:


> before I stop being serious, I would like a question for you all to ponder
> 
> if I'm not helping town, why do I care so much about M&F dying today instead of me?


Well, you already said that you wanted to bait us into fullfilling your Wincon, so you would have quite a bit to gain from not dying with it unfullfilled.



IndigoEmmy said:


> *M&F*
> is currently our top priority.
> 
> For now.


We should _probably_ finally go through with lynching a quasi-confirmed Maf, yeah.

*Lynching M&F*


----------



## Zori

Tempted to retroactively go in and like all of Eifie's posts so mewtini can't catch up


----------



## mewtini

Seshas said:


> Tempted to retroactively go in and like all of Eifie's posts so mewtini can't catch up


*seshas*


----------



## mewtini

just kidding. *mf*


----------



## IndigoClaudia

*MF*


----------



## Vipera Magnifica




----------



## mewtini

dude fucking literally.

keldeooooo!


----------



## Vipera Magnifica

clearly i missed a lot but hoooly shit i genuinely thought koko was town and now i feel like an idiot for trying healclashvig given the circumstances

definitely not trying it again without a third doctor to protect Stryke and me

also can someone link me to the post where keldeo says he got a redcheck on mist? i must have missed that skimming through because i only saw that keldeo had information and got exploded before he could reveal it

also also NOW do you believe me that Jack was outgroup mafia? I'm kinda shocked there are so many outgroup scum (Mawile, Jack, and now kokorico) but I guess it's plausible in a game this size? i wonder if there are any others


----------



## Zori

Occam's Razor says Mawile was in-group scum


----------



## Vipera Magnifica

Seshas said:


> Occam's Razor says Mawile was in-group scum


if that's the case what does that say about Herbe?


----------



## mewtini

Seshas said:


> Occam's Razor says Mawile was in-group scum


i think it just has to be that, even w/out OR. we just didn't know for sure how outgroup flipped.


----------



## mewtini

Vipera Magnifica said:


> if that's the case what does that say about Herbe?


yeah now i'm not going to defend herbe anymore lol, i didn't realize was was going on with out versus in-group. he's straight up said mawile was outgroup correct?


----------



## mewtini

i still think my prior logic points to him being 3p and not wolf, but just to clarify, i was mostly worried about increasing a scum majority (figuring that 3p herbe would buffer scum ratio).

this also makes the other 2 healers town right? (i already believed VM, more asking about stryke)


----------



## mewtini

also, just making sure; this entirely clears up the eifie situation? stryke healed eifie, RNP blocked stryke, and kokorico "healed" eifie but didn't actually do anything? rip the roleblock in this case lmfao.


----------



## kyeugh

mewtini said:


> i was mostly worried about increasing a scum majority (figuring that 3p herbe would buffer scum ratio).


can you explain this more


----------



## mewtini

kyeugh said:


> can you explain this more


as i understand the game, mafia win when they are the majority of all living players. so killing off 3p would steepen a mafia majority. obviously if there's suspicion around some 3p/herbe then it's whatever, but if there's not a reason to i don't think it's worth an informational lynch

i'm just counting up the numbers now. we started with 25 players, are down 9 town and 2 mafia, so what i was saying is that i'd rather just lessen the mafia stats instead of (or at least /before/) going for someone who i really think is more likely 3p plain than a mafioso who's really good at hiding (especially bc we haven't talked about flora/seri pretty much at all)


----------



## Zori

ty eifie


----------



## mewtini

tbh it would be good if i read the rules sticky

nevermind


----------



## mewtini

Seshas said:


> ty eifie


i can't believe you guys. what have i ever done to you to deserve this..... #SaveMewt'sReactionScore2k20


----------



## mewtini

mewtini said:


> tbh it would be good if i read the rules sticky
> 
> nevermind


uh by which i mean that i thought mafia wincon was to outnumber, not be the ONLY faction alive


----------



## Zori

Ok I think the joke has gone far enough Eifie


----------



## kyeugh

i guess i just don’t really understand your certainty that he’s 3p


----------



## mewtini

kyeugh said:


> i guess i just don’t really understand your certainty that he’s 3p


i have to go now but i'll elaborate more when i get back. it's not really certainty so much as "i would really rather talk about the people who have gone under the radar all game first


----------



## Herbe

hi i missed a fucking lot

fried chicken happened????? what??? 

and what with mist???? i mean i was already sus as soon as they admitted not really caring about the game/taking a different attitude but yeah.

I still maintain that Mawile was outgroup, or at the very least, did not have access to any sort of mafia chat. I will maintain that through the end of this game. Quote me on this.


----------



## Herbe

I guess it's kinda like the boy who cried wolf, though. I lied so much about mawile to cover our asses that the single time that I'm not lying, y'all don't believe me.


----------



## Ottercopter

Seshas said:


> ty eifie


Eifie, why don't you like my posts...? ;-;


----------



## Vipera Magnifica

Herbe said:


> I guess it's kinda like the boy who cried wolf, though. I lied so much about mawile to cover our asses that the single time that I'm not lying, y'all don't believe me.


Someone's lying and I'd really like to believe it's not you; it's me being overly trusting as usual


----------



## Vipera Magnifica

wait i probably don't even have the swap power but even if i did hiding the phrase in the middle of a sentence would just lead to butterfree overlooking it


----------



## Vipera Magnifica

i don't know how body swapper works but is it even possible to swap with someone like flora who has never posted and therefore has nothing to quote


----------



## Herbe

Vipera Magnifica said:


> wait i probably don't even have the swap power but even if i did hiding the phrase in the middle of a sentence would just lead to butterfree overlooking it


i imagine she would use the search feature, or at least control-f it, yeah? 
regardless, there was a semicolon in there instead of a comma, so Who Knows what that means

anyway, good chum, it's not you, it's me! let's play catch with it :>


----------



## Vipera Magnifica

Herbe said:


> Vipera Magnifica said:
> 
> 
> 
> wait i probably don't even have the swap power but even if i did hiding the phrase in the middle of a sentence would just lead to butterfree overlooking it
> 
> 
> 
> i imagine she would use the search feature, or at least control-f it, yeah?
> regardless, there was a semicolon in there instead of a comma, so Who Knows what that means
> 
> anyway, good chum, it's not you, it's me! let's play catch with it :>
Click to expand...

i know you. i've been reading your posts. this shit's not you, it's meant to come across as genuine but i see right through it.


----------



## Zori

very stealthy there


----------



## Ottercopter

Vipera Magnifica said:


> i don't know how body swapper works but is it even possible to swap with someone like flora who has never posted and therefore has nothing to quote


Flora posted once to say why she wasn't active. But I don't think it's a good idea to swap with an inactive player unless we're really desperate, though. Since we'd lose the means of checking anyone else with that method at that point.


----------



## Ottercopter

Vipera Magnifica said:


> i know you. i've been reading your posts. this shit's not you, it's meant to come across as genuine but i see right through it.


Also, uhhhh are you gonna elaborate on this? I don't know you, so I have no idea whether this is a joke or not.


----------



## Vipera Magnifica

man i am having a major case of déjà vu


----------



## mewtini

hrm



Herbe said:


> I still maintain that Mawile was outgroup, or at the very least, did not have access to any sort of mafia chat. I will maintain that through the end of this game. Quote me on this.


do you have any theories on why he flipped red versus jack and koko?


----------



## Herbe

mewtini said:


> do you have any theories on why he flipped red versus jack and koko?


Why would all the outgroup flip non mafia? Wouldn't that be kinda unfair to town?


----------



## Herbe

mewtini said:


> hrm


by the way, it's not you, it's me


----------



## IndigoClaudia

This is all screwed up now bcuz of the bodyswap thing lol


----------



## Novae

fun fact when I said I didn't care about the game that was 100% true and probably something I would've said regardless of alignment

the last few weeks have not been nice to me


----------



## Herbe

i'm sorry mist :( i hope future weeks are kinder


----------



## Novae

give it like a month, then school will end and it should be alright


----------



## mewtini

Herbe said:


> Why would all the outgroup flip non mafia? Wouldn't that be kinda unfair to town?


why would some outgroup flip nonmaf and others wouldn't. it makes far more sense to assume that outgroup flip non and ingroup flip red


----------



## IndigoClaudia

Mist1422 said:


> give it like a month, then school will end and it should be alright


my thoughts exactly rn about my life... kinda


----------



## IndigoClaudia

Gnight peeps, see ya tommorow probably.


----------



## mewtini

tbh it's possible mawile just lied about being outgroup to us _and_ to herbe? idrk how i feel about that hypothesis and i suspect no one else is going to like it either

outgroup flipping nonmaf makes sense; it would mess with our numbers/counting, which IS mean as herbe said, but also it keeps us from having to read into their interactions, which is kind of good. like i'm willing to believe 100% that outgroup doesn't know anything about their faction other than their own alignment, meaning that koko would have only had the goal of confusing/duping everyone (which e did flawlessly, and i hate myself for it smh. good game, chicken). versus suddenly FoSing everyone based off of interaction reads with someone who didn't even know the rest of the mafia

idk if that makes sense


----------



## Herbe

I probably don't have any more useful thoughts on the flip matter, mewtini :/

I'm just gonna sit and vibe and be lynched after mf and mist yeah? cool? sounds good


----------



## Herbe

that sounded so salty omf im sorry

i've been having a really brain fog kinda day :( sos


----------



## mewtini

Herbe said:


> I probably don't have any more useful thoughts on the flip matter, mewtini :/
> 
> I'm just gonna sit and vibe and be lynched after mf and mist yeah? cool? sounds good


no it's ok! sorry. that post wasn't meant to put pressure on you, i was just musing

also we're still lov--i mean friends no matter what right :>


----------



## Herbe

mewtini said:


> also we're still lov--i mean friends no matter what right :>


always!!!


----------



## Herbe

and then no one spoke a word, ever again

(yes, it's page 221 and I'm whinging about people not talking for 8 hours consecutively)


----------



## mewtini

Herbe said:


> and then no one spoke a word, ever again
> 
> (yes, it's page 221 and I'm whinging about people not talking for 8 hours consecutively)


that's always how i feel tbh. i'm also always glad whenever someone else also complains about it.... its validating


----------



## mewtini

i say at 5:15am, without having slept, !!


----------



## Zori

tbh we're waiting for M&F to get lynched

I don't think I buy Mist's 3rd party claim since 1) He fakeclaimed first, so he benefits from us thinking he's town and 2) He probably got redchecked


----------



## Vipera Magnifica

I still don't get the mist thing, who got redcheck on them? I must have mist it


----------



## Novae

Vipera Magnifica said:


> I still don't get the mist thing, who got redcheck on them? I must have mist it


I did


----------



## Zori

Keldeo said:


> I'm not gonna say who I inspected as mafia until later in the day. I'm not sure how much that will actually help to gauge reactions, because everyone's suspicions are on MF, but why not.





Keldeo said:


> @Mist1422 - you wouldn't happen to be a Miller-type role, would you?


----------



## Vipera Magnifica

Oh okay now I see where they claimed to be a role that's not possible

Guess we already have our lynch for tomorrow


----------



## IndigoClaudia

*M&F*?


----------



## Butterfree

IndigoEmmy you already voted for M&F like seven separate times, you don’t have to keep bolding it, please have some mercy for me who has to write down when all votes happen


----------



## Ottercopter

Seshas said:


> Vipera Magnifica said:
> 
> 
> 
> i'm not going to deny a lot of weird stuff has happened around me so i can't really blame you for scumreading me but i explained earlier in a longpost why i couldn't be mafia
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> kyeugh said:
> 
> 
> 
> i really doubt this
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Butterfree said:
> 
> 
> 
> Vote count, now with updated script that actually knows who's dead and leaves them out instead of me manually striking all of them out from the "No vote" list every time:
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ottercopter said:
> 
> 
> 
> I don't think we should go for Serimachi or especially Flora. Swapping with an inactive is tantamount to abandoning the bodyswap. Might be worth considering on a later day, but I think it's definitely too soon for that as things are now.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Stryke said:
> 
> 
> 
> I thought screwing with that and potentially being the deciding vote at the last second would've made me seem really scummy.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It's not you, it's me!
> It's not me, it's you!
> It's not that I can't remember which one it is!
Click to expand...

Crap, I forgot I got tagged here.



Vipera Magnifica said:


> i'm not going to deny a lot of weird stuff has happened around me so i can't really blame you for scumreading me but i explained earlier in a longpost why i couldn't be mafia





Panini said:


> tbf him not self presing





mewtini said:


> idk. lol. i believe that that's up to butterfree.





kyeugh said:


> i really doubt this


It's not you, it's me.


----------



## IndigoClaudia

Butterfree said:


> IndigoEmmy you already voted for M&F like seven separate times, you don’t have to keep bolding it, please have some mercy for me who has to write down when all votes happen


Sorry about that.


----------



## M&F

state of the thread rn:


----------



## mewtini

2:40pm and i just woke up

how're y'all doing


----------



## IndigoClaudia

The most i can sleep in to is about 7:30 when i really push myself unless I am sick or have depression and neither of those apply to me at the time, so i woke up at 6:50


----------



## Ottercopter

mewtini said:


> 2:40pm and i just woke up
> 
> how're y'all doing


I walked across a log for no reason in a test of bravery. You?


----------



## IndigoClaudia

oh i ate 3 bowls of popcorn.


----------



## kyeugh

Ottercopter said:


> mewtini said:
> 
> 
> 
> 2:40pm and i just woke up
> 
> how're y'all doing
> 
> 
> 
> I walked across a log for no reason in a test of bravery. You?
Click to expand...

omg you did it


----------



## Ottercopter

kyeugh said:


> omg you did it


I wasn't gonna, but then you said you did it and I didn't wanna be a coward who was scared of logs. it was highly necessary.


----------



## Zori

*Dayskip*

This isn't a thing but I feel like we're all ready for M&F to flip


----------



## M&F

I do feel about ready to flip, personally-


----------



## Herbe

we have a whole nother 24 hours? wack as hell

anyway does anyone want to visit me in animal crossing while we wait? my dodo code is 40QH7


----------



## IndigoClaudia

Darn i wish... but i don't have it yet. I wish i did, but i'm broke.


----------



## Panini

I've returned to the thread, seen rari dead, keldeo dead, and the lurch since M&F is not dead, and have therefore slapped this wall together because I don't really have much in the way of overly complex thoughts to offer right now that aren't just trying to re-hash the game state from my POV and seem like everyone's just chilling the rest of today out anyways:

Town by virtue of body-swap role (very probably true since Eifie and Keldeo were both a part of that unless it's a cult or something)
Ottercopter 
Mr. Ultracool

Town by virtue of MI info being confirmable by existance of Nanobots and Magic docs
IndigoEmmy (also just like, general excited-to-be-town vibe. Chaotic stylings if wolf)

Very Probably Town for Non Mech Reasons
Kyeugh - Not in wolf meta, possibly confirmable depending on mechanics of mysterious note (which if valid for Ultracool stands to reason would also be valid for qva? iirc?))
Mewtini - Super active, very natural vibes. Just really impressed with her performance if scum to be honest.
Seshas - Has MI information that I’m gonna just call unconfirm? For now because I don’t really think we can fully trust Mawile. Would explain some things if true tho and has general been solvy so I’m comfy with it.

Clinic of For Nowness
Stryke - In light of kokorico stuff, very probably just the real nanobots doc. Still possible in an offshoot he’s a mafia doctor or something I guess but like. Really not a priority to start going down the rabbit hole on that especially when I think the whole situation has been thoroughly worn out. Re-eval in a few days if we really find ourselves up against the wall.
Vipera Magnifica - I think VM looks mildly worse than Stryke just because the claim and everything that’s come of it is just way less clean cut. The backup/JackPK situation as well as the Nanobots on kyeugh thing could very well just be reasonable blips but it gives me pause as to whether this is just a dupe claim that’s been repeatedly patched up. Maybe time will tell depending on NAs?

Twilight Zone
Herbe - maybe 3rd party but honestly I still think fake claim for Mawile cover is a possibility, just seems weird to me that he’d still be around even though he’s lost? I’ve mostly been trusting mewtini read here if I’m being honest though. Probably another case of not now, maybe later. 

Twilight Zone Two: Less Active Zone
Flora
Serimachi

Folks on the Ropes
Mist1422 - Keldeo’s legacy. (Hope things get easier soon bud)
*M&F* - o7


----------



## Mr. Ultracool

Also, if Kocorico was a Maf aligned Townie who, accordingly, flipped town, is there any way of knowing just how man "dead townies" _were actually townaligned?_


----------



## kyeugh

Mr. Ultracool said:


> Also, if Kocorico was a Maf aligned Townie who, accordingly, flipped town, is there any way of knowing just how man "dead townies" _were actually townaligned?_


 fwiw, before we got their tropes revealed by negrek, and that was a pretty reliable indicator.


----------



## Mr. Ultracool

You're right - I don't know how I managed to forget that. Still, who says that these weren't tampered with? Some, like A God am I, don't exactly sound like roles that someone would plausibly have.


----------



## Ottercopter

Mr. Ultracool said:


> You're right - I don't know how I managed to forget that. Still, who says that these weren't tampered with? Some, like A God am I, don't exactly sound like roles that someone would plausibly have.


Eh, that would be weirdly specific tampering. I don't see what basis there is to try and dismiss Negrek's reads when all we got were trope names and not powers anyway. Or if it really helps us find the current mafia members.
(If it helps, we've already speculated a bit about what A God am I could be earlier. But there's no way of verifying, so)


----------



## Vipera Magnifica

Oh this day is still going? I thought I'd missed EoD last night



Panini said:


> Town by virtue of body-swap role (very probably true since Eifie and Keldeo were both a part of that unless it's a cult or something)
> Ottercopter
> Mr. Ultracool


It's funny that you say that because I totally had a ridiculous theory in the back of my mind that the body swap was just an elaborate cover for cult recruitment. Eifie and Keldeo claiming masons at the beginning of the game? A growing list of "confirmed" townies that somehow know about each other's roles? Not knowing what happens when they recruit mafia? Tell me that doesn't sound vaguely cultish


----------



## Ottercopter

Vipera Magnifica said:


> Oh this day is still going? I thought I'd missed EoD last night
> 
> 
> 
> Panini said:
> 
> 
> 
> Town by virtue of body-swap role (very probably true since Eifie and Keldeo were both a part of that unless it's a cult or something)
> Ottercopter
> Mr. Ultracool
> 
> 
> 
> It's funny that you say that because I totally had a ridiculous theory in the back of my mind that the body swap was just an elaborate cover for cult recruitment. Eifie and Keldeo claiming masons at the beginning of the game? A growing list of "confirmed" townies that somehow know about each other's roles? Not knowing what happens when they recruit mafia? Tell me that doesn't sound vaguely cultish
Click to expand...

For what it's worth, I totally speculated about this last day phase. 


Ottercopter said:


> *Maximum Trust:* (please don't be some kind of cult and make me feel stupid)


Obviously me saying "Nah, we're not" doesn't do much, so... Would a cult explain Rari_teh's death better than the fact that it lines up with my claim all the way back from day 2?


----------



## Vipera Magnifica

me today: are you guys maybe a cult

me next day phase: forget what i said we are _definitely_ not a cult :)


----------



## mewtini

Mr. Ultracool said:


> You're right - I don't know how I managed to forget that. Still, who says that these weren't tampered with? Some, like A God am I, don't exactly sound like roles that someone would plausibly have.


some skepticism is warranted, i think this is going too far imo. i was sussing neg for a while but she came off increasingly town to me as it went on so now i'm pretty ok with just taking her word for it/if mafia were infoscrambling, i think there are other places where it would happen first



Ottercopter said:


> Would a cult explain Rari_teh's death better than the fact that it lines up with my claim all the way back from day 2?


powerful and true


----------



## Ottercopter

Okay, since discussion is halted, I'm gonna go ahead and request that the nanobot doctor put me on their coin flip of people to protect tonight?


----------



## Zori

Stryke protects Ottercopter
Vipera protects [insert name here]


----------



## Stryke

Ottercopter said:


> Okay, since discussion is halted, I'm gonna go ahead and request that the nanobot doctor put me on their coin flip of people to protect tonight?


Damn I have a name


----------



## Stryke

Wait shit we're all swapping fuck my bad


----------



## M&F

Stryke said:


> Damn I have a name


don't keep counting on that, mortal


----------



## Butterfree

Three hours until EoD.



Spoiler: Full vote history



*mewtini* votes *M&F* (#4012)
*Herbe* votes *M&F* (#4016)
*kyeugh* votes *M&F* (#4018)
*Ottercopter* votes *M&F* (#4031)
*Stryke* votes *M&F* (#4033)
*Vipera Magnifica* votes *M&F* (#4055)
*Seshas* votes *M&F* (#4056)
*IndigoEmmy* votes *M&F* (#4124)
*IndigoEmmy* votes *M&F* (#4205)
*IndigoEmmy* votes *M&F* (#4241)
*IndigoEmmy* votes *Mist1422* (#4246)
*IndigoEmmy* votes *M&F* (#4261)
*Mist1422* votes *M&F* (#4262)
*IndigoEmmy* votes *M&F* (#4279)
*Mr. Ultracool* votes *M&F* (#4365)
*mewtini* votes *Seshas* (#4367)
*mewtini* votes *M&F* (#4368)
*IndigoEmmy* votes *M&F* (#4369)
*IndigoEmmy* votes *M&F* (#4423)
*Panini* votes *M&F* (#4438)





Spoiler: Active votes



*Herbe* votes *M&F* (#4016)
*IndigoEmmy* votes *M&F* (#4423)
*Mist1422* votes *M&F* (#4262)
*Mr. Ultracool* votes *M&F* (#4365)
*Ottercopter* votes *M&F* (#4031)
*Panini* votes *M&F* (#4438)
*Seshas* votes *M&F* (#4056)
*Stryke* votes *M&F* (#4033)
*Vipera Magnifica* votes *M&F* (#4055)
*kyeugh* votes *M&F* (#4018)
*mewtini* votes *M&F* (#4368)



Vote counts:
*M&F* (11) (Herbe, IndigoEmmy, Mist1422, Mr. Ultracool, Ottercopter, Panini, Seshas, Stryke, Vipera Magnifica, kyeugh, mewtini)
No vote (3) (Flora, M&F, serimachi)


----------



## Novae

boooooo no unanimous wagon


----------



## Mr. Ultracool

Butterfree said:


> Vote counts:
> *M&F* (11)


That seems pretty unanimous to me, at least.


----------



## Herbe

the brave abstainers are literally just the Inactive with good reason, Nebulous inactive but probably benign, and the woman on the chopping block,,, i think thats as unanimous as we're gonna get


----------



## Novae

I knooooooooooow but still


----------



## Novae

if that were me I would self-vote

just saying


----------



## kyeugh

ah shit i just remembered something important


----------



## Herbe

make sure to take at least 10 minutes typing it so you accidentally don't get to post it before threadlock


----------



## Mr. Ultracool

What is it? Hurry! It's nearly end of day!


----------



## Butterfree

After a boring slog of a day, *M&F* is dragged to the gallows. She does not bother to resist.

Once she's dead, they search her pockets and discover a list of shady phone numbers, a suspicious business card, and a trove of Minion memes. Victory! Victory! _Surely_ no one else will get murdered, ever.

*M&F is dead. She was mafia.

Please send in your night actions. The night will end on May 5th, 0:00 UTC (the one midnight to rule them all).*

Final vote counts:
*M&F* (11) (Herbe, IndigoEmmy, Mist1422, Mr. Ultracool, Ottercopter, Panini, Seshas, Stryke, Vipera Magnifica, kyeugh, mewtini)
No vote (3) (Flora, M&F, serimachi)



Spoiler: Full vote history



*mewtini* votes *M&F* (#4012)
*Herbe* votes *M&F* (#4016)
*kyeugh* votes *M&F* (#4018)
*Ottercopter* votes *M&F* (#4031)
*Stryke* votes *M&F* (#4033)
*Vipera Magnifica* votes *M&F* (#4055)
*Seshas* votes *M&F* (#4056)
*IndigoEmmy* votes *M&F* (#4124)
*IndigoEmmy* votes *M&F* (#4205)
*IndigoEmmy* votes *M&F* (#4241)
*IndigoEmmy* votes *Mist1422* (#4246)
*IndigoEmmy* votes *M&F* (#4261)
*Mist1422* votes *M&F* (#4262)
*IndigoEmmy* votes *M&F* (#4279)
*Mr. Ultracool* votes *M&F* (#4365)
*mewtini* votes *Seshas* (#4367)
*mewtini* votes *M&F* (#4368)
*IndigoEmmy* votes *M&F* (#4369)
*IndigoEmmy* votes *M&F* (#4423)
*Panini* votes *M&F* (#4438)





Spoiler: Active votes



*Herbe* votes *M&F* (#4016)
*IndigoEmmy* votes *M&F* (#4423)
*Mist1422* votes *M&F* (#4262)
*Mr. Ultracool* votes *M&F* (#4365)
*Ottercopter* votes *M&F* (#4031)
*Panini* votes *M&F* (#4438)
*Seshas* votes *M&F* (#4056)
*Stryke* votes *M&F* (#4033)
*Vipera Magnifica* votes *M&F* (#4055)
*kyeugh* votes *M&F* (#4018)
*mewtini* votes *M&F* (#4368)


----------



## Butterfree

Eifie said:


> also assuming M&F flips red can I pleeeeease have one thing posted in the thread after the flip. please. pretty please. by postgame it will be too late. you gotta do it for the memes. the memes, Butterfree! you gotta!
> 
> 
> 
> kyeugh said:
> 
> 
> 
> eifie what do you think if either one of them flips scum
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Eifie said:
> 
> 
> 
> I think I will dab obnoxiously all over the thread
> 
> Click to expand...
Click to expand...

As a counterbalance, please stay tuned for an Eifie Being Hilariously Wrong (Or Technically Right But For Completely Bullshit Reasons) montage in graveyard chat


----------



## M&F




----------



## Butterfree

[Apologies for the delay!]

The day dawns slowly. The villagers cautiously step out into the streets. Yet again, one of their number is missing.

*Stryke* lies dead in the village's fancy fountain. The cause of death isn't drowning; he seems to have been dead before he fell in there.

There's nothing suspicious in his pockets. It's clear to everyone that murderers remain among them.

*Stryke is dead. He was not mafia.

You have 72 hours to discuss. The day will end on May 8th, 0:00 UTC (ultimate time continuum).*



Spoiler: Pings



@Negrek
@Keldeo
@JackPK
@Flora
@I liek Squirtles
@kyeugh
@Ottercopter
@M&F
@Mist1422
@Eifie
@RedneckPhoenix
@Panini
@kokorico
@Boquise
@Seshas
@Stryke
@mewtini
@Mr. Ultracool
@IndigoEmmy
@rari_teh
@Mawile
@Odie_Pie
@serimachi
@Herbe
@Vipera Magnifica


----------



## mewtini

ah fuck.


----------



## mewtini

can't believe i compulsively refreshed only for our doc to be dead


----------



## IndigoClaudia

Butterfree said:


> - There may be shenanigans.


Exactly why we need to vote for *Mist1422*


----------



## mewtini

the fact that i'm sitting here wondering if the location of death is significant is true evidence that i've gone off the deep end

at least we got MF tbh


----------



## Zori

*Mist1422*


----------



## IndigoClaudia

Yep! If we hang Mist and she's some sort of not good person, than we know that the only other logical suspect is me. The most suspicious of them all :P


----------



## Zori

I have something in 9 minutes so won't be so active then


----------



## Zori

We know that Mist is never town


----------



## mewtini

*mist1422*

but what else are we looking at toDay? let the bombshells drop, y'all


----------



## Zori

did any of you guys get a new role?


----------



## IndigoClaudia

Heres some dramatic info for you: I'm Townaligned


----------



## IndigoClaudia

Seshas said:


> did any of you guys get a new role?


 no... :C


----------



## Zori

btw butterfree, you forgot kokorico and Keldeo in the Game Summary in the first post


----------



## Ottercopter

Dangit, RIP Stryke. D=

I have some news, though! My swap chain died immediately because I started it with Kyeugh.

Given that RNP flipped not Mafia and blocked her for a night, I do think that *Mist* is still a better lynch for today. But we should absolutely treat Kyeugh with suspicion. As someone who understand the mechanics of the role, it was definitely trying to swap with her that stopped it and she’ll probably be a good lynch for the next day phase.

I’m not that inclined to think she’s a third party since Rari_teh was able to take my role when it had a separate win condition. And I don’t think the mafia have a redirector because no doctors have been killed, nor have any people they tried to heal died so far except when RNP said he was blocking Stryke.

She was also the first to derail Mawile’s wagon the night RNP got lynched.

(If you’re wondering why I picked Kyeugh, her role made it sound like she could learn the tropes of people who targetted her, so I thought it would be a good way to verify her and a doctor at once if she were telling the truth. And I still held to my guess that whoever’s picking who to kill is an active player.)


----------



## Zori

dang


----------



## mewtini

Ottercopter said:


> But we should absolutely treat Kyeugh with suspicion. As someone who understand the mechanics of the role, it was definitely trying to swap with her that stopped it and she’ll probably be a good lynch for the next day phase.


this is unbearably depressing for my towncore tbh.



Ottercopter said:


> since Rari_teh was able to take my role when it had a separate win condition


are you saying that this worked because you were both town-aligned?


----------



## Zori

So it's probably time for Kyeugh to fullclaim


----------



## mewtini

i'll be straight up and say that when i was hinting earlier (in response to keldeo interrogations, i think) at having a suspicion about someone in towncore, it was kyeugh :T but i hadn't built up enough of a case/didn't want to touch it unless i had more reason to. maybe i should look at this again

full roleclaim time


----------



## Ottercopter

mewtini said:


> are you saying that this worked because you were both town-aligned?


Oh, no, I'm just saying it's the closest thing we have to information about what could happen if you swap with a non-townie. It felt like something worth including, but yeah, thinking about it a bit more, it's not especially concrete.


----------



## mewtini

mewtini said:


> i'll be straight up and say that when i was hinting earlier (in response to keldeo interrogations, i think) at having a suspicion about someone in towncore, it was kyeugh :T but i hadn't built up enough of a case/didn't want to touch it unless i had more reason to. maybe i should look at this again
> 
> full roleclaim time


i'll come back later and maybe talk about this more if this is something people actually want to pursue, but i basically also dropped it because she swayed me back into TRing her so idrk what to think rn



Ottercopter said:


> mewtini said:
> 
> 
> 
> are you saying that this worked because you were both town-aligned?
> 
> 
> 
> Oh, no, I'm just saying it's the closest thing we have to information about what could happen if you swap with a non-townie. It felt like something worth including, but yeah, thinking about it a bit more, it's not especially concrete.
Click to expand...

gotcha. yeah. i'm not sure if it helps us a ton but it also seems to imply that it means that bodyswapping doesn't even work on someone who isn't town-aligned? unless i'm totally misunderstanding. in which case i'm wondering how it works as far as a collaborative cop role goes


----------



## kyeugh

confused


----------



## mewtini

kyeugh said:


> confused


me too bro.


----------



## mewtini

good morning troperville, to the tune of 'good morning baltimore'


----------



## kyeugh

this post is weird


----------



## Ottercopter

I can clarify anything you want. I was trying to get out as much information as I could, but I was also just super excited to contribute for once and probably did word a lot of things weirdly or include unnecessary bits. Main point is that I couldn't swap with you.


----------



## mewtini

mewtini said:


> i'll be straight up and say that when i was hinting earlier (in response to keldeo interrogations, i think) at having a suspicion about someone in towncore, it was kyeugh :T but i hadn't built up enough of a case/didn't want to touch it unless i had more reason to. maybe i should look at this again
> 
> full roleclaim time


btw before i get asked more about this, it's not so much an SR as some things have pinged me (i haven't been able to tell if it's just me misunderstanding and have chalked it up to that, and i still TR her lol) so tbh i'm about to reread otter's post again to figure out if there's something else happening here


----------



## mewtini

"reread" "again" Ok Me


----------



## kyeugh

Ottercopter said:


> because no doctors have been killed


?



Ottercopter said:


> She was also the first to derail Mawile’s wagon the night RNP got lynched.


am i misremembering or was i the only one continuing to sit on mawile when all this happened


----------



## Butterfree

Seshas said:


> btw butterfree, you forgot kokorico and Keldeo in the Game Summary in the first post


Added.


----------



## mewtini

kyeugh said:


> am i misremembering or was i the only one continuing to sit on mawile when all this happened


yep. i was just about to say that i don't think this is how it went down, but i haven't reread that all yet


----------



## kyeugh

wait. mawile died before rnp. what does this even mean


----------



## mewtini

oh. Yeah.


----------



## Herbe

I'll throw a *mist* vote out there but i'm very interested in this new information thread


----------



## Ottercopter

Honestly, my heart's been pounding basically nonstop since I got the swap fail message on Saturday night. 


kyeugh said:


> Ottercopter said:
> 
> 
> 
> because no doctors have been killed
> 
> 
> 
> ?
Click to expand...

Shit, right, RNP over MF. Sorry, my timeline is wonky.


----------



## Ottercopter

And I wrote that post this morning because my heart's been pounding since I got the swap fail PM Saturday night. This game is kinda stressful, lol. Anyway, I meant that, like, instead of trying to pick off doctors or cops, the mafia had been targetting other players. If they redirected one of the doctors away from a known target or one of the other doctors, they could kill them pretty easily, yeah? But there were no contradictions between who people claimed to heal and who died. Except when Koko lied, of course.


----------



## mewtini

Ottercopter said:


> Shit, right, RNP over MF. Sorry, my timeline is wonky.


wait what does this have to do w doctors? am i just stupid



mewtini said:


> full roleclaim time


i'm taking this back for now heh


----------



## Ottercopter

You're not. I'm just rushing to post stuff instead of doing it all at once. I'm gonna take a breather.


----------



## mewtini

me rn


kyeugh said:


> [this] is weird


----------



## kyeugh

Ottercopter said:


> Shit, right, RNP over MF. Sorry, my timeline is wonky.


oh. i mean idk you can scumread that if you want! i feel like in a world where i’m scum with mf i don’t trip over myself to get someone/anyone else lynched and then just shrug and vote her/let her die the very next day

anyway *mist*


----------



## mewtini

oh yeah i mean. as someone who joined kyeugh pretty fully on going RNP over MF i'm unwilling to SR that ... ?! unless you go w the argument that wolf!skylar didn't know how to worm her way out of lynching MF the next day so she just. gave up. but :^/


----------



## kyeugh

i’m not _that_ short-sighted smh


----------



## Ottercopter

MF was still inspected as mafia, though. What point would there be in trying to defend someone doomed? The main benefit to a sudden RNP wagon would mostly be getting rid of another townie and giving the mafia one more day with MF, I'd imagi

Okay, so I'm fumbling a lot and need to step back and proofread stuff before I post, got it. But the fact that I couldn't swap with Kyeugh still stands. And Rari_teh's death matching my original role claim after they'd been talking about swapping with me (with Keldeo) should still be pretty clear evidence that I'm telling the truth and this is worth looking into, right?


----------



## Ottercopter

*imagine, dammit. Right on a post mentioning proofreading too...


----------



## mewtini

Ottercopter said:


> But the fact that I couldn't swap with Kyeugh still stands.


can you talk more about what this means? like you were told the swap attempt failed? i think i'm just sadboiz right now because this is a Town Mech Clear going against my Top Non-Mech Townread and i'm also just. vaguely afraid/skeptical of the whole bodyswapping ring just because i know nothing about it (i know that this is just how it has to be. but still)


----------



## mewtini

man. i miss keldeo.


----------



## Ottercopter

mewtini said:


> Ottercopter said:
> 
> 
> 
> But the fact that I couldn't swap with Kyeugh still stands.
> 
> 
> 
> can you talk more about what this means? like you were told the swap attempt failed? i think i'm just sadboiz right now because this is a Town Mech Clear going against my Top Non-Mech Townread and i'm also just. vaguely afraid/skeptical of the whole bodyswapping ring just because i know nothing about it (i know that this is just how it has to be. but still)
Click to expand...

That's about all I know. I think someone's mentioned it before, but if a swap fails, we don't get told the reason or any more information.


----------



## Mr. Ultracool

Well, we _technically_ don't know for sure that not being able to swap means that someone is maf. How about not lynching Mist today in order to try and swap with an all-but-confirmed maf, as that would be a second pointer as to whether kyeugh is town?


----------



## Zori

Mr. Ultracool said:


> Well, we _technically_ don't know for sure that not being able to swap means that someone is maf. How about not lynching Mist today in order to try and swap with an all-but-confirmed maf, as that would be a second pointer as to whether kyeugh is town?


Last time we did this to test out the heal clash it did not work out so well


----------



## Zori

If kyeugh is Mafia, I think Vipera almost never is because of the feedback inconsistencies
regardless, it's extremely likely that exactly one of them is mafia


----------



## Zori

_Living Playerlist_
Flora
kyeugh
Ottercopter
Mist1422
Panini
Seshas
mewtini
Mr. Ultracool
IndigoEmmy
serimachi
Herbe
Vipera Magnifica 

In a 25 person setup, there's probably 5 Mafia given we have 2 outgroups flipped
M&F + Mawile + Mist + [kyeugh/Vipera] + [Flora/Semirachi]?


----------



## Zori

_Town_
Ottercopter
mewtini
Ultracool

_Town Probably_
Panini

_maybe idk_
Emmy
Herbe

_lul_
Flora
Semirachi

_Need to Reread_
kyeugh
Vipera

_Mafia_
Mist1422


----------



## Novae

zzz

don’t you get it? I’m 3p


----------



## Zori

Mist1422 said:


> zzz
> 
> don’t you get it? I’m 3p


well yes but actually we have no reason to believe you since you haven't claimed beyond "I'm 3p"


----------



## Zori

I keep looking at the summary and thinking "god how did we screw up so bad"
but in reality we probably got 4 mafia aligned roles, it's probably safe to assume there's 4 mafia aligned roles left, with all the power role screwery that is going around


----------



## Zori

Which means we have only one mislynch
great


----------



## Zori

*RedneckPhoenix* (6) (Herbe, Mr. Ultracool, Vipera Magnifica, kokorico, kyeugh, mewtini)
*M&F* (5) (Keldeo, Ottercopter, Panini, Seshas, rari_teh)
No vote (14) (Flora, M&F, Stryke, serimachi, RedneckPhoenix, IndigoEmmy, Mist1422) 

cool


----------



## IndigoClaudia

Seshas said:


> IndigoEmmy,


why am i not in green?


----------



## Zori

Deja Vu, Deja Vu

I think this fairly clears Panini, though I haven't seen the archetype of EoD4 in a game where I was paying attention to it so


----------



## IndigoClaudia

Panini is still suspicious on my list.


----------



## Zori

Based purely on what kyeugh has claimed so far, I don't see why the role couldn't be swapped


----------



## IndigoClaudia

hmm... fair enough


----------



## Zori

*I liek Squirtles* (5) (Herbe, Keldeo, Mawile, Negrek, mewtini)
*Ottercopter* (4) (I liek Squirtles, Seshas, kyeugh, rari_teh)
*(abstain)* (3) (Mr. Ultracool, Ottercopter, serimachi)
*Panini* (2) (Boquise, Eifie)
*Eifie* (1) (M&F)
*Keldeo* (1) (Mist1422)
*Odie_Pie* (1) (Panini)
*kyeugh* (1) (RedneckPhoenix)
*[JackPK]* (1) (Vipera Magnifica)
No vote (6) (Flora, Stryke, IndigoEmmy, Odie_Pie, kokorico) 

Let's play a game called find the scum
I never thought I'd say this but: I think Mawile spews Herbe non-Mafia here
This VC doesn't say much about kyeugh/Vipera, which is mostly what I was looking for


----------



## Zori

Butterfree said:


> ALL RIGHT I am caught up sorry about that thank you for being a wild ride
> 
> Here's a vote count, day will end at *1:30 UTC* (in ~20 minutes).
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Full vote history
> 
> 
> 
> *Keldeo* votes *Ottercopter* (#1488)
> *Keldeo* unvotes (#1550)
> *Eifie* votes *Panini* (#1577)
> *Keldeo* votes *Panini* (#1882)
> *Mist1422* votes *Panini* (#1940)
> *Herbe* votes *serimachi* (#2001)
> *Eifie* unvotes (#2101)
> *Keldeo* unvotes (#2131)
> *Herbe* unvotes (#2155)
> *Eifie* votes *Mawile* (#2177)
> *Herbe* votes *serimachi* (#2179)
> *M&F* votes *Keldeo* (#2210)
> *rari_teh* votes *Mawile* (#2215)
> *IndigoEmmy* votes *Mawile* (#2216)
> *Herbe* unvotes (#2251)
> *Herbe* votes *Stryke* (#2259)
> *IndigoEmmy* votes *Stryke* (#2261)
> *M&F* votes *Stryke* (#2311)
> *Panini* votes *Mist1422* (#2356)
> *kokorico* votes *serimachi* (#2357)
> *kyeugh* votes *Odie_Pie* (#2404)
> *mewtini* votes *Mawile* (#2407)
> *kokorico* votes *Odie_Pie* (#2429)
> *Mawile* votes *Odie_Pie* (#2434)
> *mewtini* votes *Stryke* (#2435)
> *Herbe* votes *Odie_Pie* (#2436)
> *kyeugh* votes *Mawile* (#2439)
> *Stryke* votes *Odie_Pie* (#2441)
> *mewtini* votes *Odie_Pie* (#2446)
> *Ottercopter* votes *Odie_Pie* (#2451)
> *mewtini* votes *Mawile* (#2466)
> *Panini* votes *Mawile* (#2479)
> *Keldeo* votes *Mawile* (#2495)
> *Negrek* votes *Odie_Pie* (#2547)
> *Ottercopter* votes *Mawile* (#2579)
> *Eifie* votes *Odie_Pie* (#2612)
> *Ottercopter* votes *Odie_Pie* (#2614)
> *Keldeo* votes *Odie_Pie* (#2619)
> *Panini* votes *Odie_Pie* (#2621)
> *mewtini* votes *Odie_Pie* (#2624)
> *mewtini* votes *Stryke* (#2638)
> *rari_teh* votes *Stryke* (#2643)
> *Seshas* votes *Stryke* (#2702)
> *Herbe* votes *Stryke* (#2705)
> *mewtini* unvotes (#2713)
> *rari_teh* votes *Odie_Pie* (#2716)
> *mewtini* votes *Stryke* (#2718)
> *rari_teh* votes *Mawile* (#2720)
> *Keldeo* votes *Stryke* (#2722)
> *rari_teh* votes *Stryke* (#2739)
> *kokorico* votes *Stryke* (#2740)
> *mewtini* votes *Odie_Pie* (#2741)
> *mewtini* votes *Stryke* (#2765)
> *Keldeo* votes *Odie_Pie* (#2787)
> *Panini* votes *Stryke* (#2806)
> *Panini* votes *Odie_Pie* (#2819)
> *mewtini* votes *Odie_Pie* (#2821)
> 
> 
> 
> Vote counts:
> *Odie_Pie* (8) (Eifie, Keldeo, Mawile, Negrek, Ottercopter, Panini, Stryke, mewtini)
> *Stryke* (6) (Herbe, IndigoEmmy, M&F, Seshas, kokorico, rari_teh)
> *Panini* (1) (Mist1422)
> *Mawile* (1) (kyeugh)
> No vote (9) (Flora, serimachi, RedneckPhoenix, Vipera Magnifica, Mr. Ultracool, Odie_Pie)


I'll probably reconstruct a previous votecount at the peak of the Mawile wagon later


----------



## Zori

Spoiler: If you were wondering what I'm doing with my spare time



*Keldeo* votes *Ottercopter* (#1488)
*Keldeo* unvotes (#1550)
*Eifie* votes *Panini* (#1577)
*Keldeo* votes *Panini* (#1882)
*Mist1422* votes *Panini* (#1940)
*Herbe* votes *serimachi* (#2001)
*Eifie* unvotes (#2101)
*Keldeo* unvotes (#2131)
*Herbe* unvotes (#2155)
*Eifie* votes *Mawile* (#2177)
*Herbe* votes *serimachi* (#2179)
*M&F* votes *Keldeo* (#2210)
*rari_teh* votes *Mawile* (#2215)
*IndigoEmmy* votes *Mawile* (#2216)
*Herbe* unvotes (#2251)
*Herbe* votes *Stryke* (#2259)
*IndigoEmmy* votes *Stryke* (#2261)
*M&F* votes *Stryke* (#2311)
*Panini* votes *Mist1422* (#2356)
*kokorico* votes *serimachi* (#2357)
*kyeugh* votes *Odie_Pie* (#2404)
*mewtini* votes *Mawile* (#2407)
*kokorico* votes *Odie_Pie* (#2429)
*Mawile* votes *Odie_Pie* (#2434)
*mewtini* votes *Stryke* (#2435)
*Herbe* votes *Odie_Pie* (#2436)
*kyeugh* votes *Mawile* (#2439)
*Stryke* votes *Odie_Pie* (#2441)
*mewtini* votes *Odie_Pie* (#2446)
*Ottercopter* votes *Odie_Pie* (#2451)
*mewtini* votes *Mawile* (#2466)
*Panini* votes *Mawile* (#2479)
*Keldeo* votes *Mawile* (#2495)
*Negrek* votes *Odie_Pie* (#2547)
*Ottercopter* votes *Mawile* (#2579)
*Eifie* votes *Odie_Pie* (#2612)
*Ottercopter* votes *Odie_Pie* (#2614)
*Keldeo* votes *Odie_Pie* (#2619)
*Panini* votes *Odie_Pie* (#2621)
*mewtini* votes *Odie_Pie* (#2624)
*mewtini* votes *Stryke* (#2638)
*rari_teh* votes *Stryke* (#2643)
*Seshas* votes *Stryke* (#2702)
*Herbe* votes *Stryke* (#2705)
*mewtini* unvotes (#2713)
*rari_teh* votes *Odie_Pie* (#2716)
*mewtini* votes *Stryke* (#2718)
*rari_teh* votes *Mawile* (#2720)
*Keldeo* votes *Stryke* (#2722)
*rari_teh* votes *Stryke* (#2739)
*kokorico* votes *Stryke* (#2740)
*mewtini* votes *Odie_Pie* (#2741)
*mewtini* votes *Stryke* (#2765)
*Keldeo* votes *Odie_Pie* (#2787)
*Panini* votes *Stryke* (#2806)
*Panini* votes *Odie_Pie* (#2819)
*mewtini* votes *Odie_Pie* (#2821)
*kyeugh* votes *Odie_Pie* (#2849)



A veritable rainbow


----------



## Novae

well if you really wanted to know I'm an alien, which is a jester that can only win upon being attacked

I was banking on getting vigged last night and getting lynched for surviving but it didn't work out


----------



## Zori

Town has no Vigilantes
Mafia has no incentive to kill you

Cop softed a redcheck on you
You have high Mafia Equity

As a result, you are getting lynched
On the off chance you are Alien, you lost anyways, and you have no incentive to vote with Town


----------



## Novae

Correct!

Really the only reason I'm bothering to argue this is because it feels like an insult to my wolf game


----------



## Zori

Mist1422 said:


> Correct!
> 
> Really the only reason I'm bothering to argue this is because it feels like an insult to my wolf game


----------



## Zori

This is all I remember about your scum play in XX1 by the way


----------



## Zori

Seshas said:


> Spoiler: If you were wondering what I'm doing with my spare time
> 
> 
> 
> *Keldeo* votes *Ottercopter* (#1488)
> *Keldeo* unvotes (#1550)
> *Eifie* votes *Panini* (#1577)
> *Keldeo* votes *Panini* (#1882)
> *Mist1422* votes *Panini* (#1940)
> *Herbe* votes *serimachi* (#2001)
> *Eifie* unvotes (#2101)
> *Keldeo* unvotes (#2131)
> *Herbe* unvotes (#2155)
> *Eifie* votes *Mawile* (#2177)
> *Herbe* votes *serimachi* (#2179)
> *M&F* votes *Keldeo* (#2210)
> *rari_teh* votes *Mawile* (#2215)
> *IndigoEmmy* votes *Mawile* (#2216)
> *Herbe* unvotes (#2251)
> *Herbe* votes *Stryke* (#2259)
> *IndigoEmmy* votes *Stryke* (#2261)
> *M&F* votes *Stryke* (#2311)
> *Panini* votes *Mist1422* (#2356)
> *kokorico* votes *serimachi* (#2357)
> *kyeugh* votes *Odie_Pie* (#2404)
> *mewtini* votes *Mawile* (#2407)
> *kokorico* votes *Odie_Pie* (#2429)
> *Mawile* votes *Odie_Pie* (#2434)
> *mewtini* votes *Stryke* (#2435)
> *Herbe* votes *Odie_Pie* (#2436)
> *kyeugh* votes *Mawile* (#2439)
> *Stryke* votes *Odie_Pie* (#2441)
> *mewtini* votes *Odie_Pie* (#2446)
> *Ottercopter* votes *Odie_Pie* (#2451)
> *mewtini* votes *Mawile* (#2466)
> *Panini* votes *Mawile* (#2479)
> *Keldeo* votes *Mawile* (#2495)
> *Negrek* votes *Odie_Pie* (#2547)
> *Ottercopter* votes *Mawile* (#2579)
> *Eifie* votes *Odie_Pie* (#2612)
> *Ottercopter* votes *Odie_Pie* (#2614)
> *Keldeo* votes *Odie_Pie* (#2619)
> *Panini* votes *Odie_Pie* (#2621)
> *mewtini* votes *Odie_Pie* (#2624)
> *mewtini* votes *Stryke* (#2638)
> *rari_teh* votes *Stryke* (#2643)
> *Seshas* votes *Stryke* (#2702)
> *Herbe* votes *Stryke* (#2705)
> *mewtini* unvotes (#2713)
> *rari_teh* votes *Odie_Pie* (#2716)
> *mewtini* votes *Stryke* (#2718)
> *rari_teh* votes *Mawile* (#2720)
> *Keldeo* votes *Stryke* (#2722)
> *rari_teh* votes *Stryke* (#2739)
> *kokorico* votes *Stryke* (#2740)
> *mewtini* votes *Odie_Pie* (#2741)
> *mewtini* votes *Stryke* (#2765)
> *Keldeo* votes *Odie_Pie* (#2787)
> *Panini* votes *Stryke* (#2806)
> *Panini* votes *Odie_Pie* (#2819)
> *mewtini* votes *Odie_Pie* (#2821)
> *kyeugh* votes *Odie_Pie* (#2849)
> 
> 
> 
> A veritable rainbow


Kyeugh comes off this looking townie
Emmy comes off loking a bit worse


----------



## IndigoClaudia

Seshas said:


> Emmy comes off loking a bit worse


Wait why?


----------



## Zori

IndigoEmmy said:


> Wait why?


Hopping on Mawile when the momentum is picking up, then hopping off once a new wagon is gaining momentum


----------



## Zori

@:Kyeugh
is there a reason why your role wouldn't be swappable?


----------



## Zori

serimachi said:


> Hi, guys. First time player here.
> 
> Obviously Eifie is acting incredibly suspicious, and this isn't her first rodeo. Hypotheses (in order of how likely I think they are):
> 
> She's an alien, or some other role that benefits by being lynched
> She's just acting in character for a trope, or this is just her regular sense of humor
> She's wants us to _think_ she is so obviously an alien or some other role that benefits from being lynched, so that we don't lynch her
> Something I'm missing or misunderstanding about the game
> If she's not distributing powers completely randomly, I think we should also consider that Butterfree might give the most powerful/important/interesting roles to experienced players or people she trusts, so as to keep the game interesting. This casts a little more doubt on Eifie and the likes of Negrek, mewtini, and other long-time forum go-ers. It's likely that one of them is the boss of the mafia.
> 
> I really have no idea about the death or the circumstances of the death, those are just my thoughts so far. I agree that based on the flavour text, JackPK doesn't seem like Mafia.
> 
> Also, I didn't count on how it would genuinely make a part of me feel gross to vote on people to kill!   I'll *abstain* based on no good grounds to suspect anyone, unless someone explains to me why that's a bad idea.





serimachi said:


> Keldeo said:
> 
> 
> 
> In what way do you mean, just asking to be lynched or something else? (I will also chime in that this is her normal sense of humor - just trying to get a sense of how you're thinking here.)
> 
> 
> 
> Haha, well just in the first few pages, right?
> 
> 
> 
> Eifie said:
> 
> 
> 
> I volunteer to be lynched!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Eifie said:
> 
> 
> 
> I personally am in my element when surrounded by corpses and blood. Ooh, death...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Eifie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Oh. We'll need to fix that.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Eifie said:
> 
> 
> 
> you think I do my own killing? how crass...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Now don't get me wrong, it _is_ hilarious. But could it be something more..?
Click to expand...




serimachi said:


> I'll assume bad townlean means you guys are skeptical about me being an innocent. I don't know if it's a good idea to reveal power even in general terms, but I can see already some people have. Can anyone experienced in the game tell me when that's a good idea?





serimachi said:


> Hi! Didn't notice Day 2 had started--figured it'd be in another thread.
> 
> Um, how do you guys find so much to speculate about?   I mean literally dozens of pages worth of speculation! I still feel like there's very little evidence of _anything_ right now. We have some hints of people with powers who are probably _not_ Mafia, but that's as solid as I feel about anything (and even that could just be trickery).
> 
> I mean, I'm aware that I'm really inexperienced and the fact that I feel like we have very little to go on is probably just a consequence of that. But I just find it all very tough to follow.





serimachi said:


> Aww, shoot. Now I feel bad that I ever mentioned suspecting Eifie.  It sounds like she was an important role, too, and not an alien or something like I suspected.
> 
> Out of general curiosity, and something I've been wondering, is it allowed for more than one person to have the same role?


every single post made by serimachi


----------



## IndigoClaudia

Seshas said:


> IndigoEmmy said:
> 
> 
> 
> Wait why?
> 
> 
> 
> Hopping on Mawile when the momentum is picking up, then hopping off once a new wagon is gaining momentum
Click to expand...

Could you explain a bit more. I was deeply invested in hanging M&F, Mawile, and Mist.


----------



## Zori

soulread town PR

would always lynch Flora first


----------



## IndigoClaudia

***Now mist. I will want to hang mist.


----------



## Zori

IndigoEmmy said:


> Could you explain a bit more. I was deeply invested in hanging M&F, Mawile, and Mist.


I haven't read D3 yet
you're still townlean for now

fwiw pushing M&F, Mawile, and Mist after they outed/got outed doesn't really count


----------



## Zori

also you weren't voting M&F at EoD4


----------



## mewtini

IndigoEmmy said:


> Panini is still suspicious on my list.


panini is cleared :P


----------



## Zori

I want to believe in kyeugh
It's just
we need to discuss who to lynch after Mist


----------



## IndigoClaudia

I say Kyeugh... but i'm honestly not sure.


----------



## mewtini

Seshas said:


> I want to believe in kyeugh


i mean. _is_ it fullclaim time?


----------



## IndigoClaudia

fullclaim?


----------



## mewtini

full roleclaim


----------



## IndigoClaudia

Oh... I already did roleclaim :P


----------



## mewtini

Seshas said:


> Kyeugh comes off this looking townie
> Emmy comes off loking a bit worse


idk how strongly i feel about emmy, but ftr, her voteswitch seems to be from just after the mawile/stryke inconsistency came out


----------



## mewtini

IndigoEmmy said:


> Oh... I already did roleclaim :P


i was replying to seshas about kyeugh


----------



## Zori

I mean
kyeugh probably should roleclaim because of all the heat on them

but
ughh


----------



## IndigoClaudia

I personally think Emmy is town aligned but you decide for yourself. :O


----------



## Zori

Spoiler: If you were wondering what I'm doing with my spare time



*Keldeo* votes *Ottercopter* (#1488)
*Keldeo* unvotes (#1550)
*Eifie* votes *Panini* (#1577)
*Keldeo* votes *Panini* (#1882)
*Mist1422* votes *Panini* (#1940)
*Herbe* votes *serimachi* (#2001)
*Eifie* unvotes (#2101)
*Keldeo* unvotes (#2131)
*Herbe* unvotes (#2155)
*Eifie* votes *Mawile* (#2177)
*Herbe* votes *serimachi* (#2179)
*M&F* votes *Keldeo* (#2210)
*rari_teh* votes *Mawile* (#2215)
*IndigoEmmy* votes *Mawile* (#2216)
*Herbe* unvotes (#2251)
*Herbe* votes *Stryke* (#2259)
*IndigoEmmy* votes *Stryke* (#2261) - _Emmy's Votes_
*M&F* votes *Stryke* (#2311)
*Panini* votes *Mist1422* (#2356)
*kokorico* votes *serimachi* (#2357)
*kyeugh* votes *Odie_Pie* (#2404)
*mewtini* votes *Mawile* (#2407)
*kokorico* votes *Odie_Pie* (#2429)
*Mawile* votes *Odie_Pie* (#2434)
*mewtini* votes *Stryke* (#2435)
*Herbe* votes *Odie_Pie* (#2436)
*kyeugh* votes *Mawile* (#2439)
*Stryke* votes *Odie_Pie* (#2441)
*mewtini* votes *Odie_Pie* (#2446)
*Ottercopter* votes *Odie_Pie* (#2451)
*mewtini* votes *Mawile* (#2466)
*Panini* votes *Mawile* (#2479)
*Keldeo* votes *Mawile* (#2495)
*Negrek* votes *Odie_Pie* (#2547)
*Ottercopter* votes *Mawile* (#2579)
*Eifie* votes *Odie_Pie* (#2612)
*Ottercopter* votes *Odie_Pie* (#2614) - _I'm pretty sure this is where Herbe claims Lovers_
*Keldeo* votes *Odie_Pie* (#2619)
*Panini* votes *Odie_Pie* (#2621)
*mewtini* votes *Odie_Pie* (#2624)
*mewtini* votes *Stryke* (#2638)
*rari_teh* votes *Stryke* (#2643)
*Seshas* votes *Stryke* (#2702)
*Herbe* votes *Stryke* (#2705)
*mewtini* unvotes (#2713)
*rari_teh* votes *Odie_Pie* (#2716)
*mewtini* votes *Stryke* (#2718)
*rari_teh* votes *Mawile* (#2720) - _Which would put Mawile/Stryke inconsistency around here_
*Keldeo* votes *Stryke* (#2722)
*rari_teh* votes *Stryke* (#2739)
*kokorico* votes *Stryke* (#2740)
*mewtini* votes *Odie_Pie* (#2741)
*mewtini* votes *Stryke* (#2765)
*Keldeo* votes *Odie_Pie* (#2787)
*Panini* votes *Stryke* (#2806)
*Panini* votes *Odie_Pie* (#2819)
*mewtini* votes *Odie_Pie* (#2821)
*kyeugh* votes *Odie_Pie* (#2849)


----------



## IndigoClaudia

this confirms i'm town.


----------



## Zori

my lynchpool for tomorrow is [Vipera/Emmy/Flora]
serimachi is soulread town and I just don't think kyeugh is Mafia


----------



## mewtini

IndigoEmmy said:


> this confirms i'm town.


i think that what seshas highlighted is what makes you look weird. (@sesh thanks for annotating that btw)



IndigoEmmy said:


> I personally think Emmy is town aligned but you decide for yourself. :O


??



Seshas said:


> I mean
> kyeugh probably should roleclaim because of all the heat on them
> 
> but
> ughh


yeah pretty much where i'm at. having slept on it, i feel like indescribably odd about otter's post (and whether i think the slips were genuine or not) but then otter is mechcleared so maybe it's possible i'm just letting my emotions cloud my judgment? i'm going to talk about it in a Coming Post, and y'all can take it with a grain of salt assuming that otter really did just mess up while adrenalineposting


----------



## IndigoClaudia

Ok i literally am not town. I am a mysterious informant with A C T U A L    I N F O R M A T I O N that has been proven to exist and i'm a bad player so why would i purposely act suspicious.


----------



## mewtini

Seshas said:


> serimachi is soulread town


can you talk more about this


----------



## mewtini

IndigoEmmy said:


> Ok i literally am not town. I am a mysterious informant with A C T U A L    I N F O R M A T I O N that has been proven to exist and i'm a bad player so why would i purposely act suspicious.


i don't think anyone is scumreading you


----------



## IndigoClaudia

mewtini said:


> IndigoEmmy said:
> 
> 
> 
> this confirms i'm town.
> 
> 
> 
> i think that what seshas highlighted is what makes you look weird. (@sesh thanks for annotating that btw)
> 
> 
> 
> IndigoEmmy said:
> 
> 
> 
> I personally think Emmy is town aligned but you decide for yourself. :O
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> ??
Click to expand...

[/QUOTE]

Yes i know i just wanted to see if i could avoid suspicion and nobody would think about it. As for the second thing, i was just sh*tposting.


----------



## IndigoClaudia

IndigoEmmy said:


> Ok i literally am not town. I am a mysterious informant with A C T U A L    I N F O R M A T I O N that has been proven to exist and i'm a bad player so why would i purposely act suspicious.


***Am town. whoops my bad.


----------



## Zori

IndigoEmmy said:


> Ok i literally am not town.


lul


----------



## IndigoClaudia

Seshas said:


> IndigoEmmy said:
> 
> 
> 
> Ok i literally am not town.
> 
> 
> 
> lul
Click to expand...

No i am town!  Beeeelliiieeeevvveeee mmeeeeeee lol


----------



## Zori

serimachi said:


> I'll assume bad townlean means you guys are skeptical about me being an innocent. I don't know if it's a good idea to reveal power even in general terms, but I can see already some people have. Can anyone experienced in the game tell me when that's a good idea?


This just seems pure from an unexperienced player
In any case, Mafia almost certainly would not have a fakeclaim ready this early in the game
and he just seems so prepared to claim


serimachi said:


> Hi! Didn't notice Day 2 had started--figured it'd be in another thread.
> 
> Um, how do you guys find so much to speculate about?   I mean literally dozens of pages worth of speculation! I still feel like there's very little evidence of _anything_ right now. We have some hints of people with powers who are probably _not_ Mafia, but that's as solid as I feel about anything (and even that could just be trickery).
> 
> I mean, I'm aware that I'm really inexperienced and the fact that I feel like we have very little to go on is probably just a consequence of that. But I just find it all very tough to follow.


I feel like Mafia would actually go in, make some pushes, get cliffnotes from buddies in mafia chat
The complete lack of action just reads town to me


----------



## IndigoClaudia

If mist isn't mafia i'd have to vote for Kyeugh atm but that can change once she REVEALS her role!


----------



## IndigoClaudia

Seshas said:


> I feel like Mafia would actually go in, make some pushes, get cliffnotes from buddies in mafia chat


There's a mafia chat? Unfair 0.o


----------



## IndigoClaudia

Also what if mist benifits from being hanged?


----------



## mewtini

tinfoil/skeptic otter post discussion. i'm also ignoring the fact that she is almost def mechanically town because Better Safe Than Sorry!



Ottercopter said:


> As someone who understand the mechanics of the role,


this phrasing just irked me tbh, i still feel uneasy about the Swapping Ring and this attempt to grab credibility just makes me feel weird feelings given otter's current place in the game (where i think we all implicitly trust her?)



Ottercopter said:


> I’m not that inclined to think she’s a third party since Rari_teh was able to take my role when it had a separate win condition.





Ottercopter said:


> mewtini said:
> 
> 
> 
> are you saying that this worked because you were both town-aligned?
> 
> 
> 
> Oh, no, I'm just saying it's the closest thing we have to information about what could happen if you swap with a non-townie. It felt like something worth including, but yeah, thinking about it a bit more, it's not especially concrete.
Click to expand...

still don't think the separate wincon means anything if both otter and rari have presumably been town the whole time. weird oversight to make (WOtM for short) if she did write that post as far in advance as she claimed 

i also think that it's possible kyeugh is just a towny 3p or something like that if she _really_ isn't town?? it's possible the swap fails wrt 3p i guess but. i don't know



Ottercopter said:


> She was also the first to derail Mawile’s wagon the night RNP got lynched.


no comment needed but i'll comment anyway: uhhhhhh. hrm. WOtM?!

post just does not seem to make sense in a large number of ways


----------



## mewtini

i think the shorter/less stupid way to convey what i was trying to say is that it felt like a weird push given how i've been reading all of otter's prior posts, but i suppose it's also possible that she just got overexcited. idk. not considering other worlds (like one where skylar is 3p over mafia, or other reasons that the swap could fail) and throwing in the sort of buzzwordy thing about mawile without even seeming to review the timeline makes me go ?_?

which isn't to say that there's no way skylar is mafia. i just don't want it to be true :C


----------



## Zori

I personally disagree with "Better Safe than Sorry" when carried to far

you can end up chasing yourself in circles and lynching the people who should be obvious villagers instead of the people who are doing nothing to advance the game


----------



## mewtini

oh, yeah. my intention wasn't actually to FoS otter or anything like that, but it _is _a weird post/clearing some of it up matters a lot

i'd probably (?) suggest just going for flora after mist, unless something else happens


----------



## mewtini

but yeah. i also just kinda wanted to explain some of my visceral reaction to her post though. for posterity's sake


----------



## Zori

I'm still iffy on Vipera being town but Flora is ok (?) just for lack of better options


----------



## mewtini

Seshas said:


> I'm still iffy on Vipera being town but Flora is ok (?) just for lack of better options


yeah my flora proposal is out of desperation

wouldn't it be funny if the actual doctor was like. completely separate from the Doctor Ring


----------



## Zori

Like there are 12 people alive (10 tomorrow)
Mewtini/Otter/Ultra are never ever getting lynched
Panini shouldn't ever get lynched
kyeugh I don't think should get lynched
Herbe and Serimachi can go if we're desperate
leaving Flora and Vipera/Emmy


----------



## mewtini

Seshas said:


> Like there are 12 people alive (10 tomorrow)
> Mewtini/Otter/Ultra are never ever getting lynched
> Panini shouldn't ever get lynched
> kyeugh I don't think should get lynched
> Herbe and Serimachi can go if we're desperate
> leaving Flora and Vipera/Emmy


you'd rank emmy below herbe/seri?


----------



## Zori

I mean
I just don't toneread Emmy as town right now
it's not that their tone is scummy, I just don't see it as necessarily town

combined with there's no mechread on town!Emmy
and no voteread on town!Emmy


----------



## mewtini

no you're good. i tentatively agree, i just wasn't realizing you weren't leaning more positively on her


----------



## Zori

so like
Emmy's sitting at a solid null
Herbe has things verifying her as 3p and Serimachi is a soulread town


----------



## mewtini

Seshas said:


> Herbe has things verifying her


herbe uses he/him!

i don't feel _as_ strongly about seri as you do but i feel good enough to go with flora before seri for sure. i doubt much will change on either front


----------



## Zori

rip
this is why I should just default to they/them instead of using whatever genders I have probably randomly assigned in my head


----------



## Vipera Magnifica

Ottercopter said:


> Crap, I forgot I got tagged here.
> 
> 
> 
> Vipera Magnifica said:
> 
> 
> 
> i'm not going to deny a lot of weird stuff has happened around me so i can't really blame you for scumreading me but i explained earlier in a longpost why i couldn't be mafia
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Panini said:
> 
> 
> 
> tbf him not self presing
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> mewtini said:
> 
> 
> 
> idk. lol. i believe that that's up to butterfree.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> kyeugh said:
> 
> 
> 
> i really doubt this
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It's not you, it's me.
Click to expand...

At the risk of making myself look scum, I thought you tagged me first @Ottercopter? Am I missing something, or is there another reason you think the swap fail was because of kyeugh?

Also I don't fully understand why you are 100% positive about multiquote swap mechanics now when before you seemed like you weren't sure how it would resolve and you wanted to test it out. Did Butterfree give you more information or something? I want to pursue this avenue further but I'm a little wary about lynching someone I've had a fairly solid townread on if there's no information on why the swap failed.

*Mist1422 *definitely seems like the safest lynch for today, but after that... damn... I still have my suspicions about Herbe now that we know Mawile was probably in-group mafia? Not that I'm fully convinced Herbe is scum, but can we at least try swapping with Herbe tonight to see if it sticks? Something about the way he lovers claimed with Mawile to throw us off the lynch wagon and backtracked as soon as it was evident Mawile was going to die just leaves a bad taste in my mouth. Sorry if I'm wrong, Herbe, but I just think we should look into that.


----------



## mewtini

Vipera Magnifica said:


> At the risk of making myself look scum, I thought you tagged me first @Ottercopter? Am I missing something, or is there another reason you think the swap fail was because of kyeugh?


i think it's that when she first batch-quoted to swap, skylar was at the top of the list. the post you quoted came later



Vipera Magnifica said:


> I want to pursue this avenue further but I'm a little wary about lynching someone I've had a fairly solid townread on if there's no information on why the swap failed.


yeah this is how i feel as well

in re: herbe, i'm def relaxing my "he's 3p!!!" grip a little now that mawile has been revealed to be ingroup/there is something weird there. on the other hand, if herbe were mafia, what incentive would he have had to be as solvey as he was pre-lovers claim? (then again maybe that's a moot point, given that everything pre-mawile was a mislynch. haha ...)

i just can't get over the weird mawile/herbe split about mawile feeling weird that herbe was sheeping me, or w/e - if they're w/w then like. idk. Why. maybe i'm fixated on that because it involved my name, but it was also the only vaguely-AI interaction seen between the two of them i think


----------



## mewtini

Vipera Magnifica said:


> Something about the way he lovers claimed with Mawile to throw us off the lynch wagon and backtracked as soon as it was evident Mawile was going to die just leaves a bad taste in my mouth.


oh, i'm not sure what backtrack you're referring to, though. is it when he said he wouldn't die if mawile did?


----------



## Vipera Magnifica

mewtini said:


> i think it's that when she first batch-quoted to swap, skylar was at the top of the list. the post you quoted came later


Ah



mewtini said:


> oh, i'm not sure what backtrack you're referring to, though. is it when he said he wouldn't die if mawile did?


Yeah. I can see it being like a desperation thing just to keep Mawile alive if he really is like a Guardian Angel kinda role, but I don't feel good about just accepting that at face value with the new information that's been presented. It doesn't hurt to try a swap tonight at least? It's not like we're hard pressed to pick a lynch target for today.


----------



## Ottercopter

Vipera Magnifica said:


> At the risk of making myself look scum, I thought you tagged me first @Ottercopter? Am I missing something, or is there another reason you think the swap fail was because of kyeugh?
> 
> Also I don't fully understand why you are 100% positive about multiquote swap mechanics now when before you seemed like you weren't sure how it would resolve and you wanted to test it out. Did Butterfree give you more information or something? I want to pursue this avenue further but I'm a little wary about lynching someone I've had a fairly solid townread on if there's no information on why the swap failed.


When I asked, she told me enough that I knew how the chain was theoretically supposed to move. Mewtini, that was also what I was trying to imply when I was talking about knowing how the role worked. Just trying to get rid of any doubts that maybe I mixed up who I first targetted or something, not so much re-establish credibility that I'm trustworthy or something.

I don't wanna give away more of the mechanics because I'm gonna have to try swapping again tonight. And as our last doctor, there's pretty good grounds to include VM somewhere in that chain, so the more ambiguous it is where you get swapped, the better? I think? I dunno, this is kinda the heaviest thing on my mind right now. Not that I'm not paying attention to the rest of the discussion, of course.


----------



## mewtini

Vipera Magnifica said:


> Yeah. I can see it being like a desperation thing just to keep Mawile alive if he really is like a Guardian Angel kinda role, but I don't feel good about just accepting that at face value with the new information that's been presented. It doesn't hurt to try a swap tonight at least? It's not like we're hard pressed to pick a lynch target for today.


yeah, i agree!


----------



## Herbe

if y'all do an herbeswap, we'll also be able to see if my flavor of 3P is swappable or not :O
i'm down


----------



## kyeugh

Seshas said:


> @:Kyeugh
> is there a reason why your role wouldn't be swappable?


um, maybe.  i wouldn't have expected it to make my role unswappable, but given that we _know_ it's unswappable, i guess it would make sense?  idk.

i can roleclaim if you guys really want me to but don't really see any sense in doing that right now tbh.


----------



## Novae

oh yeah I have a promise to fulfill

*Mist1422*


----------



## Mr. Ultracool

kyeugh said:


> i wouldn't have expected it to make my role unswappable


So, would you be willing to divulge what "it" is? If not, I'd understand, too.


----------



## kyeugh

that would pretty much constitute a full roleclaim, so not really, unless you think i should do that. :p


----------



## mewtini

Mist1422 said:


> oh yeah I have a promise to fulfill
> 
> *Mist1422*


omfg


----------



## Novae

m-hm!


----------



## Herbe

Seshas said:


> In a 25 person setup, there's probably 5 Mafia given we have 2 outgroups flipped
> M&F + Mawile + Mist + [kyeugh/Vipera] + [Flora/Semirachi]?


I'm interested in this interpretation, @Seshas . Are you saying that if kyeugh is inno, Vipera is maf, and vice versa? and if serimachi is inno, flora is maf, etc?

Also, hm. Best case, town has 2 lynches to win, worst case, 4? What does that look like on D9, D10, etc? when is lylo?


----------



## Zori

Basically
I'm feeling like there's at least one mafia who's actually paying attention to the game, and it's between [Vipera/Emmy/maaaaaybe kyeugh]
I feel like it's very unlikely that Vipera and kyeugh are ever scum together

and that just left one mafia in the pool of people who weren't paying attention to the game


----------



## mewtini

Herbe said:


> kyeugh is inno, Vipera is maf, and vice versa?


imo the brief drama with the nanobot thing doesn't make sense if they're w/w


----------



## Panini

I think my opinions haven't changed a ton but line up loosely with what Seshas has been saying? Apart from I feel messy about Emmy vs Serimachi rankings.


Seshas said:


> I mean
> I just don't toneread Emmy as town right now
> it's not that their tone is scummy, I just don't see it as necessarily town
> 
> combined with there's no mechread on town!Emmy
> and no voteread on town!Emmy


tbf Emmy _kinda _has a vague mechread in the sense that she had MI info that we saw play out during the game- I suppose it's plausible that the mafia had knowledge of the magic/nanobots dichtonomy but I also feel like this thing you said about serimachi is equally applicable to Emmy to a degree?


Seshas said:


> This just seems pure from an unexperienced player
> In any case, Mafia almost certainly would not have a fakeclaim ready this early in the game
> and he just seems so prepared to claim


I do think out of mech Emmy's been mostly just popping in with snippets here and there, so agree there's not a lot to decisively town-read by, I just kinda think she still has more going for her than seri by a ways.

Re: Otter/kyeugh stuff, I kind of just want to give that the space to play out more fully. Even with the point about previously being able to swap around a 3P, I don't think it's out of the question that there might still be non-mafia roles that Butterfree would be unable to swap for anyway? I feel like she's been playing her town game in basically all other respects, so I feel like. Similar hesitations to mewtini.

I'm also not sure what the Herbe test proposed is supposed to prove - if Herbe's role right now is the kind of blank slate he's proposed it to be presumably without win con (?) I don't think that's very applicable to the situation beyond what's already been done.

Wondering if it's worth going back over VM/Stryke/koko situation now that we have flips although I guess VM would either way be assuming there that he's actually dealing with two legit claims since koko was outgroup. I think the overarching point about there probably being an active player (or at least one that's reading) is fairly cogent though.

bloop *Mist1422*


----------



## Ottercopter

Aaaaaaaa I keep trying to think of stuff to post, but I've got nothing. I guess another loose thread about Kyeugh that's been on my mind is that VM got that PM (lol) about Kyeugh being town? And Mewtini apparently got one about Mr. Ultracool? But there's no way to verify that those came from truthful sources or if both of them are even real.

And I STILL don't have a good idea on how to start the swapping chain today. But I'll do that sometime tonight for sure so that we have a day to move it around.

Also also, still suspicious of Kyeugh, but I guess if Mist is our definite lynch for today, we can probably save the full roleclaim for the next day phase so that she can maybe get something useful out of it if she IS somehow a townie. I do think she should definitely roleclaim by next day phase, though. We don't really have a whole lot else to go on. Like, even if I swapped with Herbe first and it failed, that doesn't mean anything because we can never verify that he really is just a 3P and I'm skeptic of that at best as well.


----------



## Zori

Mist1422 said:


> m-hm!


treestumping instead of nightkills is a viable solution to the deepwolf-punishing aspect of multiball


----------



## Herbe

Seshas said:


> treestumping instead of nightkills is a viable solution to the deepwolf-punishing aspect of multiball


i can't parse what these words, in this order, actually mean in english


----------



## mewtini

Herbe said:


> Seshas said:
> 
> 
> 
> treestumping instead of nightkills is a viable solution to the deepwolf-punishing aspect of multiball
> 
> 
> 
> i can't parse what these words, in this order, actually mean in english
Click to expand...

me neither. i just accepted my fate


----------



## Vipera Magnifica

Seshas said:


> treestumping instead of nightkills is a viable solution to the deepwolf-punishing aspect of multiball


----------



## Ottercopter

Vipera Magnifica said:


>





Seshas said:


> treestumping instead of nightkills is a viable solution to the deepwolf-punishing aspect of multiball





mewtini said:


> me neither. i just accepted my fate


It's not you, it's me.


----------



## Novae

Seshas said:


> Mist1422 said:
> 
> 
> 
> m-hm!
> 
> 
> 
> treestumping instead of nightkills is a viable solution to the deepwolf-punishing aspect of multiball
Click to expand...

with or without flips?

either way it still has the issue that the non-deep wolves will get lynched and the treestumps don’t count towards parity


----------



## Mr. Ultracool




----------



## Mr. Ultracool

Re: Ottercopters swap


----------



## Vipera Magnifica

btw does the swap go into effect at the start of the night phase?

If so... not sure I should say what I'm thinking but I have a bad feeling


----------



## Vipera Magnifica

actually no don't answer this


----------



## Ottercopter

Oh god, I'm so intrigued, but yeah, might be for the best if you think it'll be risky.


----------



## Zori

Mist1422 said:


> with or without flips?
> 
> either way it still has the issue that the non-deep wolves will get lynched and the treestumps don’t count towards parity


no flips, but it's not like it has the account stealing nightkill mech
the idea is that the town wincon is to *kill* all mafias, which treestumping doesn't count towards, while
treestumps can still take factional kills

for context: I posted that sentence in a bunch of different threads on different forums as a joke for Chem


----------



## Zori

Herbe said:


> Seshas said:
> 
> 
> 
> treestumping instead of nightkills is a viable solution to the deepwolf-punishing aspect of multiball
> 
> 
> 
> i can't parse what these words, in this order, actually mean in english
Click to expand...




Mr. Ultracool said:


> View attachment 494





Vipera Magnifica said:


> btw does the swap go into effect at the start of the night phase?
> 
> If so... not sure I should say what I'm thinking but I have a bad feeling


it's not you, it's me.


----------



## Herbe

Mr. Ultracool said:


>





Vipera Magnifica said:


> actually no don't answer this





Seshas said:


> it's not you, it's me.


it's not you, it's meme


----------



## Mr. Ultracool

Herbe said:


> Seshas said:
> 
> 
> 
> treestumping instead of nightkills is a viable solution to the deepwolf-punishing aspect of multiball
> 
> 
> 
> i can't parse what these words, in this order, actually mean in english
Click to expand...




mewtini said:


> Herbe said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Seshas said:
> 
> 
> 
> treestumping instead of nightkills is a viable solution to the deepwolf-punishing aspect of multiball
> 
> 
> 
> i can't parse what these words, in this order, actually mean in english
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> me neither. i just accepted my fate
Click to expand...




Vipera Magnifica said:


> Seshas said:
> 
> 
> 
> treestumping instead of nightkills is a viable solution to the deepwolf-punishing aspect of multiball
Click to expand...




Ottercopter said:


> Oh god, I'm so intrigued, but yeah, might be for the best if you think it'll be risky.


It's not you, it's me. Or is it?


----------



## Novae

Seshas said:


> Mist1422 said:
> 
> 
> 
> with or without flips?
> 
> either way it still has the issue that the non-deep wolves will get lynched and the treestumps don’t count towards parity
> 
> 
> 
> no flips, but it's not like it has the account stealing nightkill mech
> the idea is that the town wincon is to *kill* all mafias, which treestumping doesn't count towards, while
> treestumps can still take factional kills
> 
> for context: I posted that sentence in a bunch of different threads on different forums as a joke for Chem
Click to expand...

so wait, then nightkills don't really count towards anything, if the treestumped players are still alive for wincon purposes


----------



## Zori

Mafia's wincon is to reach voting parity (0v0 counts as parity)
Town's wincon is to kill all Mafia


----------



## IndigoClaudia

KILL MIST! KILL MIST! KILL MIST! KILL MIST!


----------



## Vipera Magnifica

Ottercopter said:


> Oh god, I'm so intrigued, but yeah, might be for the best if you think it'll be risky.


didn't want to say it but the mafia probably already figured it out

if we swap at the beginning of the night i can't heal you and you can't heal yourself; and if you die that just immediately makes me look guilty

best not to answer my question and i'll heal you tonight. that way it's like a pseudo-coinflip which one of us is protected


----------



## Novae

Seshas said:


> Mafia's wincon is to reach voting parity (0v0 counts as parity)
> Town's wincon is to kill all Mafia


Does that mean both win if it ends up at 0v0 


IndigoEmmy said:


> KILL MIST! KILL MIST! KILL MIST! KILL MIST!


calm down a bit, why don't you?

it's happening either way and there isn't really anything either of us can do to stop it.


----------



## IndigoClaudia

IndigoEmmy said:


> KILL MIST! KILL MIST! KILL MIST! KILL MIST!


calm down a bit, why don't you?

it's happening either way and there isn't really anything either of us can do to stop it.
[/QUOTE]

That's true. I wouldn't exactly want people to go around chanting to hang me (Which might actually happen even though i am townaligned >O<).


----------



## IndigoClaudia

something messed up with the quote... that's weird.


----------



## Ottercopter

Vipera Magnifica said:


> didn't want to say it but the mafia probably already figured it out
> 
> if we swap at the beginning of the night i can't heal you and you can't heal yourself; and if you die that just immediately makes me look guilty


If it helps, I at least think Ultracool will know if the swap failed altogether and I die? There's something in the role description that I feel like should come up in flavor text the same way Eifie died with a gun and Rari_teh was smiling.


----------



## Zori

Mist1422 said:


> Does that mean both win if it ends up at 0v0


Only if there are no mafia alive:
Town Treestump x4
Mafia Treestump

is a Mafia win


----------



## kyeugh

Mist1422 said:


> IndigoEmmy said:
> 
> 
> 
> KILL MIST! KILL MIST! KILL MIST! KILL MIST!
> 
> 
> 
> calm down a bit, why don't you?
> 
> it's happening either way and there isn't really anything either of us can do to stop it.
Click to expand...

sac ri fice! sac ri fice! sac ri fice!


----------



## IndigoClaudia

Sack of rice! Sack of rice! Sack of rice! Sack of rice!


----------



## Ottercopter

Seshas said:


> Town Treestump x4
> Mafia Treestump
> 
> is a Mafia win


What's a treestump, again?


----------



## IndigoClaudia

Someone who can only talk, can't vote or use abilities.


----------



## IndigoClaudia

to my knowledge.


----------



## Zori

Me and Mist are just talking about a rather dumb setup where mafia can't kill anyone, but they can treestump people every night


----------



## Zori

also
how can you sacrifice a ghost type


----------



## IndigoClaudia

Use a dark type move? idk


----------



## Zori

If the point of the sacrifice is to raise their soul up to the sky as an offering to the gods
then we can just tie Mist to a baloon


----------



## Zori

This thread has degraded so much in quality since D5 and I love it


----------



## Ottercopter

Mr. Ultracool said:


> It's not you, it's me. Or is it?


Oh yah


Seshas said:


> Mafia's wincon is to reach voting parity (0v0 counts as parity)
> Town's wincon is to kill all Mafia





mewtini said:


> me neither. i just accepted my fate





Vipera Magnifica said:


> best not to answer my question and i'll heal you tonight. that way it's like a pseudo-coinflip which one of us is protected


It's not you, it's me.



Seshas said:


> This thread has degraded so much in quality since D5 and I love it


Yeah... ;-;
I hope Keldeo, Elifie, and the rest aren't screaming at us too hard from beyond the grave.


----------



## IndigoClaudia

Ok. Here's the deal. We need to find someone from the Mafia, get an air pump for pumping up tires, pump them up with helium so they fly towards the sky, attach mist to them and bam. Two birds with one stone.


----------



## Ottercopter

By the way, VM, is it okay if you say who you healed last night and why it wasn't Stryke?


----------



## Vipera Magnifica

Ottercopter said:


> By the way, VM, is it okay if you say who you healed last night and why it wasn't Stryke?


You actually, since I figured you were the most likely mafia target


----------



## Ottercopter

Ottercopter said:


> Okay, since discussion is halted, I'm gonna go ahead and request that the nanobot doctor put me on their coin flip of people to protect tonight?





Seshas said:


> Stryke protects Ottercopter
> Vipera protects [insert name here]





Stryke said:


> Damn I have a name


Even after this? I woulda been worried about a healer clash.


----------



## Vipera Magnifica

I missed that but evidently there was not a healer clash


----------



## Zori

kyeugh said:


> sac ri fice! sac ri fice! sac ri fice!





IndigoEmmy said:


> Ok. Here's the deal. We need to find someone from the Mafia, get an air pump for pumping up tires, pump them up with helium so they fly towards the sky, attach mist to them and bam. Two birds with one stone.





Vipera Magnifica said:


> You actually


It's not you, it's me!


----------



## Zori

I soulread that Vipera will out himself as Mafia by succesfully healing someone tonight
Let's see if he still does it


----------



## Vipera Magnifica

how would that out me as mafia


----------



## Novae

Seshas said:


> If the point of the sacrifice is to raise their soul up to the sky as an offering to the gods
> then we can just tie Mist to a baloon


look just because I'm temporarily a misdreavus does not mean that I have stopped being a shinx


----------



## Zori

That never stopped anyone from tying you to a baloon


----------



## IndigoClaudia

Mist1422 said:


> Seshas said:
> 
> 
> 
> If the point of the sacrifice is to raise their soul up to the sky as an offering to the gods
> then we can just tie Mist to a baloon
> 
> 
> 
> look just because I'm temporarily a misdreavus does not mean that I have stopped being a shinx
Click to expand...

You were a shinx?


----------



## mewtini

Seshas said:


> That never stopped anyone from tying you to a baloon


it's not you, it's me!


----------



## mewtini

Seshas said:


> I soulread that Vipera will out himself as Mafia by succesfully healing someone tonight
> Let's see if he still does it


huh?


----------



## Vipera Magnifica

mewtini said:


> Seshas said:
> 
> 
> 
> I soulread that Vipera will out himself as Mafia by succesfully healing someone tonight
> Let's see if he still does it
> 
> 
> 
> huh?
Click to expand...

yeah i still don't get this


----------



## Zori

It's a soulread
I am a psychic type
I peer into your soul


----------



## Vipera Magnifica

that's not the part i don't get


----------



## Zori

Odie_Pie didn't have a soul and that is why they were mislynched


----------



## IndigoClaudia

I have a soul.


----------



## Vipera Magnifica

is your adoption of seshasspeak just a deepwolf obfuscation tactic to fearpush us into LYMBISS endgame?


----------



## Zori

Vipera Magnifica said:


> LYMBISS


Let you memes be in Seshas style


----------



## mewtini




----------



## Mr. Ultracool

Oh, I almost forgot something. Just popping in to 


*Lynch Mist 1422 *


----------



## Novae

Seshas said:


> That never stopped anyone from tying you to a baloon










IndigoEmmy said:


> Mist1422 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Seshas said:
> 
> 
> 
> If the point of the sacrifice is to raise their soul up to the sky as an offering to the gods
> then we can just tie Mist to a baloon
> 
> 
> 
> look just because I'm temporarily a misdreavus does not mean that I have stopped being a shinx
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You were a shinx?
Click to expand...

m-hm!


----------



## Zori

this conversation is very productive


----------



## IndigoClaudia

What happens when shinx hits the ground, which it's already weak to?


----------



## Zori

IndigoEmmy said:


> What happens when shinx hits the ground, which it's already weak to?


He tries to land in the water, obviously


----------



## IndigoClaudia

oh. (what if shinx misses.)


----------



## Novae

reviver seed!


----------



## IndigoClaudia

Fair enough...


----------



## IndigoClaudia

What if shinx is out of reviver seeds?


----------



## Vipera Magnifica

Shinx with Air Balloon... has no weakness...


----------



## IndigoClaudia

Shinx with air balloon flllliiiiieeeeesssss.


----------



## IndigoClaudia

We need to end this day phase already. xD


----------



## Vipera Magnifica

shit i can't vote to lynch something that cute

*unvote Mist

vote society*


----------



## Ottercopter

But society make the balloon


----------



## IndigoClaudia

If i had known i had an option to hang society this whole time...


----------



## Zori

I imagine we will look back on this D7 and wonder "Why weren't we trying to find Mafia"


----------



## Vipera Magnifica




----------



## IndigoClaudia

Seshas said:


> I imagine we will look back on this D7 and wonder "Why weren't we trying to find Mafia"


it's obvious. We have better things to do than just find mafia or something like that.


----------



## Ottercopter

Oh shit, you're right.

*The mafia*


----------



## Vipera Magnifica

:poggers:


----------



## mewtini

there's a lot that's about to get added to my signature. special shoutout to


Ottercopter said:


> *The mafia*


----------



## IndigoClaudia

Vipera Magnifica said:


> i can't vote to lynch something that cute
> 
> *unvote Mist
> 
> vote society*






IndigoEmmy said:


> If i had known i had an option to hang society this whole time...


I think this is pretty good too.


----------



## Zori

We're waiting for the votecount then all piling on to whoever Ottercopter is voting


----------



## Herbe

while I'm here, would anybody like a bowl of ramen? i'm about to make some


----------



## Zori

ramen sounds yummy


----------



## IndigoClaudia

I want some ramen!


----------



## Butterfree

Vote count, for the record:



Spoiler: Full vote history



*IndigoEmmy* votes *Mist1422* (#4467)
*Seshas* votes *Mist1422* (#4469)
*mewtini* votes *Mist1422* (#4473)
*Ottercopter* votes *Mist1422* (#4478)
*Herbe* votes *Mist1422* (#4497)
*kyeugh* votes *Mist1422* (#4503)
*Vipera Magnifica* votes *Mist1422* (#4584)
*Mist1422* votes *Mist1422* (#4592)
*Panini* votes *Mist1422* (#4600)
*Mr. Ultracool* votes *Mist1422* (#4658)





Spoiler: Active votes



*Herbe* votes *Mist1422* (#4497)
*IndigoEmmy* votes *Mist1422* (#4467)
*Mist1422* votes *Mist1422* (#4592)
*Mr. Ultracool* votes *Mist1422* (#4658)
*Ottercopter* votes *Mist1422* (#4478)
*Panini* votes *Mist1422* (#4600)
*Seshas* votes *Mist1422* (#4469)
*Vipera Magnifica* votes *Mist1422* (#4584)
*kyeugh* votes *Mist1422* (#4503)
*mewtini* votes *Mist1422* (#4473)



Vote counts:
*Mist1422* (10) (Herbe, IndigoEmmy, Mist1422, Mr. Ultracool, Ottercopter, Panini, Seshas, Vipera Magnifica, kyeugh,
mewtini)
No vote (2) (Flora, serimachi)


----------



## Zori

Ottercopter voted the mafia
Ottercopter voted Mist
Therefore Mist is the mafia
sucks to be modspewed like that tbh


----------



## Vipera Magnifica

Butterfree said:


> Vote count, for the record:
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Full vote history
> 
> 
> 
> *IndigoEmmy* votes *Mist1422* (#4467)
> *Seshas* votes *Mist1422* (#4469)
> *mewtini* votes *Mist1422* (#4473)
> *Ottercopter* votes *Mist1422* (#4478)
> *Herbe* votes *Mist1422* (#4497)
> *kyeugh* votes *Mist1422* (#4503)
> *Vipera Magnifica* votes *Mist1422* (#4584)
> *Mist1422* votes *Mist1422* (#4592)
> *Panini* votes *Mist1422* (#4600)
> *Mr. Ultracool* votes *Mist1422* (#4658)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Active votes
> 
> 
> 
> *Herbe* votes *Mist1422* (#4497)
> *IndigoEmmy* votes *Mist1422* (#4467)
> *Mist1422* votes *Mist1422* (#4592)
> *Mr. Ultracool* votes *Mist1422* (#4658)
> *Ottercopter* votes *Mist1422* (#4478)
> *Panini* votes *Mist1422* (#4600)
> *Seshas* votes *Mist1422* (#4469)
> *Vipera Magnifica* votes *Mist1422* (#4584)
> *kyeugh* votes *Mist1422* (#4503)
> *mewtini* votes *Mist1422* (#4473)
> 
> 
> 
> Vote counts:
> *Mist1422* (10) (Herbe, IndigoEmmy, Mist1422, Mr. Ultracool, Ottercopter, Panini, Seshas, Vipera Magnifica, kyeugh,
> mewtini)
> No vote (2) (Flora, serimachi)


excuse you i voted for *society*


----------



## Vipera Magnifica

I know I'm not supposed to post my Role PM but what the hell



			
				Butterfree said:
			
		

> You are the *Joker*. Your power is *Gamers Rise Up*. You live in a society, as does everyone else in Troperville. It is your job to make them aware of that. During the game, if a majority of players cas their vote for "society", you win the game.


----------



## Butterfree

Unfortunately the vote counting script will complain at me if I write in a vote for something that isn't on the player list (so that we don't get split votes for typos)


----------



## Ottercopter

Okay, gonna try and be halfway serious for about ten seconds. Here are... assorted thoughts that I don't really know how to progress past this. Except reviewing old posts, which I... miiiiight do this night phase, hopefully.



Spoiler: I have lost my faith in tier lists until we know more about Kyeugh tbh



*Mr. Ultracool:* Cleared
*Panini: *Cleared
*VM:* Inclined to trust you because your claim would be really out there otherwise? And I don't wanna risk our (theoretical?) last doctor.
*Kyeugh: *Still suspicious and still wondering about the RNP wagon, although I'll admit I admittedly woulda questioned it less if not for the failed swap mystery.
*Mewtini: *I don't think you've done anything suspect. Also, you were one of the first people to believe in me, so I reaaaaaaally don't want you to be mafia. (I am possibly extremely easy to win over)
*Seshas:* Pointing out Keldeo's read on Mist felt pretty townie to me and I don't remember you doing anything suspicious either, but I still wonder about your MI info. Like, what it means and also how hard it would really be to fake.
*IndigoEmmy: *Inclined to think you're a townie based on your MI info being verified.
*Mist: *RIP
*Herbe:* No (Possibly tin foil hat levels of feeling like claiming lovers would be a good deterrent against lynching. Like "Nobody would ever do something that reckless"????)
*Flora, Serimachi: *Whatevs. Although I DO worry that just lynching them by default is gonna tip our townie numbers even lower if we're wrong. Hopefully we can find some good info for the next day phase.
----
Keldeo and Koko: AAAAAAAAA DAMMIT
Eifie and Rari_teh: ;-;
Negrek and other dead townies: Wish you were here, hope you are not also screaming at the screen because we're overlooking something obvious


----------



## Zori

I still think it's possible for Mafia to have a role that gives them said healer clash info
especially if it directly states a key mechanic in the game, unlike mine and Mr. Ultracool's


----------



## Zori

To reply to my previous "soulread" on Vipera
A scum of Vipera's experience would probably be worried about mechanically proving themselves, and is likely to holster the kill to mechanically confirm themselves
Which is good for town


----------



## Zori

I feel like kyeugh is outgroup, if anything


----------



## Zori

I know I'm a bit late to the game here
but Mr Ultracool's MI result confirms that Jack was outgroup
unless Stryke or Squirtle was outgroup which at this point is just screwed up


----------



## Ottercopter

If Stryke was outgroup, Keith is gonna feel so vindicated.


----------



## Zori

My soulread on Butterfree says there were 4 doctors at the start of the game
Jack + ILS - Magic Doctors
Vipera + Stryke - Nanobot Doctors

Kokorico being a backup outgroup doctor


----------



## Zori

Who is Keith


----------



## mewtini

Seshas said:


> Who is Keith


rnp


----------



## Zori

ngl I think it's pretty dodgy that Emmy initially posted her MI info vaguely then was able to clarify it later on


----------



## Zori

Still need to read Mawile's posts
and probably reread M&F's posts
as our resident mafias


----------



## Ottercopter

Oh, just in case I get killed tonight,


----------



## Ottercopter

Oh god why is it huge


----------



## kyeugh

people be posting in here


----------



## Butterfree

Everyone resolves to lynch *Mist1422* before the day even begins. The vote is once again unanimous. *Mist1422* maintains that they are not a member of the mafia but rather an alien. Nobody seems to care or think this is at all alarming.

They walk to the gallows themselves with a proud indifference. Several twitching tentacles grow out of their mouth as their neck snaps, then go still.

*Mist1422 is dead. They were not mafia.

Please send in your night actions. The night will end on May 10th, 0:00 UTC (because Iceland).*

Final vote counts:
*Mist1422* (10) (Herbe, IndigoEmmy, Mist1422, Mr. Ultracool, Ottercopter, Panini, Seshas, Vipera Magnifica, kyeugh,
mewtini)
No vote (2) (Flora, serimachi)



Spoiler: Full vote history



*IndigoEmmy* votes *Mist1422* (#4467)
*Seshas* votes *Mist1422* (#4469)
*mewtini* votes *Mist1422* (#4473)
*Ottercopter* votes *Mist1422* (#4478)
*Herbe* votes *Mist1422* (#4497)
*kyeugh* votes *Mist1422* (#4503)
*Vipera Magnifica* votes *Mist1422* (#4584)
*Mist1422* votes *Mist1422* (#4592)
*Panini* votes *Mist1422* (#4600)
*Mr. Ultracool* votes *Mist1422* (#4658)





Spoiler: Active votes



*Herbe* votes *Mist1422* (#4497)
*IndigoEmmy* votes *Mist1422* (#4467)
*Mist1422* votes *Mist1422* (#4592)
*Mr. Ultracool* votes *Mist1422* (#4658)
*Ottercopter* votes *Mist1422* (#4478)
*Panini* votes *Mist1422* (#4600)
*Seshas* votes *Mist1422* (#4469)
*Vipera Magnifica* votes *Mist1422* (#4584)
*kyeugh* votes *Mist1422* (#4503)
*mewtini* votes *Mist1422* (#4473)


----------



## Butterfree

As the citizens gather the next day, *Vipera Magnifica* is missing.

In his house, once they've carefully stepped around the dozen or so friendly snakes, they find VM dead on the couch, his face permanently locked in this expression:







He doesn't seem to have any suspicious business cards. How will they ever stop this wave of merciless murder?!

*Vipera Magnifica is dead. He was not mafia.

You have 72 hours to discuss. The day will end on May 13th, 0:00 UTC (the PROPER time a day begins and ends).*

(Apologies for the delay again!)



Spoiler: Pings



@Negrek
@Keldeo
@JackPK
@Flora
@I liek Squirtles
@kyeugh
@Ottercopter
@M&F
@Mist1422
@Eifie
@RedneckPhoenix
@Panini
@kokorico
@Boquise
@Seshas
@Stryke
@mewtini
@Mr. Ultracool
@IndigoEmmy
@rari_teh
@Mawile
@Odie_Pie
@serimachi
@Herbe
@Vipera Magnifica


----------



## mewtini

welp.


----------



## mewtini

so: i lost :)


----------



## Ottercopter

mewtini said:


> so: i lost :)


W-were you also some kind of detached townie with a separate win condition? Dang, how many of us were there?


----------



## mewtini

nope

hardclaim 3p. i was aligned with mist


----------



## mewtini

i can talk more about it if anyone wants, i figured it might help you guys out somehow to know more about the numbers/distributions and i'm bad at keeping secrets longer than i have to


----------



## Ottercopter

I think that might be helpful, but god, with so few players left, I'm nervous about making the wrong choice, so maybe we should wait for more input.

Anyway, the more I look at our numbers dwindling with no strong clues anymore, the more it feels like


----------



## mewtini

Ottercopter said:


> I think that might be helpful, but god, with so few players left, I'm nervous about making the wrong choice, so maybe we should wait for more input.


fair!

a thought though. does this mean some weird distortion role still exists? if keldeo did inspect mist and get a red result (which seems to be the case), something doesn't add up, since mist flipped green


----------



## Ottercopter

Well, so did Kokorico and e was a terrorist. I don't think anyone could have distorted eir flip result under those circumstances. I think the current running theory is that only in-group flips red upon death?


----------



## mewtini

yeah. but mist shouldn't have inspected red in that case? unless inspection operates differently from flip?


----------



## Zori

mewtini said:


> nope
> 
> hardclaim 3p. i was aligned with mist


nooooooooooooo
whyyyyy
D:


----------



## kyeugh

mewtini said:


> i can talk more about it if anyone wants, i figured it might help you guys out somehow to know more about the numbers/distributions and i'm bad at keeping secrets longer than i have to


 is there any reason not to?


----------



## Zori

It's possible that Keldeo didn't intend to soft or sth


----------



## Herbe

mewtiniiiiiiii

third party best friends :O spill your beans!! i want details :>


----------



## Herbe

also lol title still says n6


----------



## Herbe

Butterfree said:


> Several twitching tentacles grow out of their mouth as their neck snaps,


mewtini do you also have mouth tentacles


----------



## mewtini

ok i just realized that there's like not that much for me to talk about anyway so i'll go ahead and just. Reveal Everything that i know? i don't think it helps mafia if i do and i imagine i should probably just elaborate 100% in that case

my trope was sinister minister and i was aligned with mist (who was a weird flavored alien; technically they were the eldritch abomination) but we weren't allowed to communicate, so i don't really know more about them than y'all do. (i suspect there isn't much more below the surface there, though.) i didn't do more to save them yesterDay because i realized that their bad claim was just a really weirdly miscalculated slip-up and frankly i didn't feel like i had a lot to work with since they were so MIA for so much of the game

i think the only vaguely-pertinent info is that the ultracool whisper was a lie. when i tried to say that eifie was definitely a cop in earlygame (when she had softclaimed to clear mist and ultracool), it was me knowing that mist would turn up green and trying to make sure she didn't have suspicion thrown at her - a huge novice move from me, because i didn't think that trying to corroborate her would hurt anyone. basically as previously said: i am bad at keeping secrets/got nervous. when keldeo asked me about my clear info i felt like it would be too awkward to explain that i just wanted to clear eif, but then when he got killed i figured i'd preemptively try to explain myself. i don't think this really matters since ultracool is probably mech-clear anyway


----------



## mewtini

Seshas said:


> mewtini said:
> 
> 
> 
> nope
> 
> hardclaim 3p. i was aligned with mist
> 
> 
> 
> nooooooooooooo
> whyyyyy
> D:
Click to expand...

i'm sorry tbh :(


----------



## mewtini

tbqh once i realized that mist was losing interest early on i pretty much just decided to play town and then once they became a lynch candidate i was like. oh right. this is my role huh. lol


----------



## mewtini

Herbe said:


> Butterfree said:
> 
> 
> 
> Several twitching tentacles grow out of their mouth as their neck snaps,
> 
> 
> 
> mewtini do you also have mouth tentacles
Click to expand...

i hope not!


----------



## mewtini

Seshas said:


> It's possible that Keldeo didn't intend to soft or sth


what do you mean?


mewtini said:


> yeah. but mist shouldn't have inspected red in that case? unless inspection operates differently from flip?


just pulling this back up because it seems like a possible loose end that might be worth thinking about


Herbe said:


> third party best friends :O


<3


----------



## kyeugh

what’s your wincon then? did you just win with myst?


----------



## mewtini

kyeugh said:


> what’s your wincon then? did you just win with myst?


yeah. if mist won, i'd win regardless of whether i was alive or dead


----------



## Herbe

what was mist supposed to do to win? the usual alien gig?


----------



## mewtini

Herbe said:


> what was mist supposed to do to win? the usual alien gig?


yeah. get targeted on the NK and then get lynched


----------



## mewtini

i imagine that's why they claimed a PR. they hoped to get targeted and then lynched once town was like "wtf. no kills happened"


----------



## mewtini

which makes kind of no sense but its ok.


----------



## Herbe

i do find it interesting that "protect ur best friend from getting killed/losing <3" was a prevalent theme in this role set
i think its cute


----------



## Herbe

mewtini said:


> mewtini said:
> 
> 
> 
> yeah. but mist shouldn't have inspected red in that case? unless inspection operates differently from flip?
Click to expand...

i would be entirely surprised if there weren't cases where inspection operates differently from flip in this game


----------



## mewtini

Herbe said:


> i do find it interesting that "protect ur best friend from getting killed/losing <3" was a prevalent theme in this role set
> i think its cute


i was about to agree but then i remembered that, in flavor, my 'best friend' is an abomination of nature who is emblematic of the demented hell-religion i worship


----------



## mewtini

Herbe said:


> i would be entirely surprised if there weren't cases where inspection operates differently from flip in this game


idk enough about mafia to speak to this but this feels weird? fsr my gut is just like BUS DRIVER but


----------



## Herbe

mewtini said:


> my 'best friend' is an abomination of nature who is emblematic of the demented hell-religion i worship


frens come in all shapes, sizes, and species


----------



## mewtini

Herbe said:


>


i love this pic of us


----------



## Herbe

mewtini said:


> idk enough about mafia to speak to this but this feels weird? fsr my gut is just like BUS DRIVER but


i dunno where we would fit a bus driver in this game tbh? like, let's look at the alive playerlist and see whose roles we know (cause everyone who's died so far, we've had a p solid grasp on their role, yeah?)

flora: functionally null
kyeugh: i forget tbh but its not bus driver
ottercopter: mi i think after the switcheroos (which has been hard to keep up with but i think i got it down)
panini: no clue
seshas: another MI
mewt: priest bby (who has also lost and is sticking around anyway :> )
mr. ultracool: no clue
indigoemmy: third mi
serimachi: also functionally null i think unless their lurker game is On Point
and herbe: lil widow boy who's sticking around for the fun of it

only ppl i would spec bus driving would be panini or seshas but even then i don't really see it, no other evidence (yeah i know that wasnt like a super serious Thought you had, just wanted to share ^^ )


----------



## Herbe

mewtini said:


> Herbe said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> i love this pic of us
Click to expand...

yes omg they really got your angles right


----------



## mewtini

Herbe said:


> mewtini said:
> 
> 
> 
> idk enough about mafia to speak to this but this feels weird? fsr my gut is just like BUS DRIVER but
> 
> 
> 
> i dunno where we would fit a bus driver in this game tbh? like, let's look at the alive playerlist and see whose roles we know (cause everyone who's died so far, we've had a p solid grasp on their role, yeah?)
> 
> flora: functionally null
> kyeugh: i forget tbh but its not bus driver
> ottercopter: mi i think after the switcheroos (which has been hard to keep up with but i think i got it down)
> panini: no clue
> seshas: another MI
> mewt: priest bby (who has also lost and is sticking around anyway :> )
> mr. ultracool: no clue
> indigoemmy: third mi
> serimachi: also functionally null i think unless their lurker game is On Point
> and herbe: lil widow boy who's sticking around for the fun of it
> 
> only ppl i would spec bus driving would be panini or seshas but even then i don't really see it, no other evidence (yeah i know that wasnt like a super serious Thought you had, just wanted to share ^^ )
Click to expand...

yeah exactly. reiterating for everyone else that i don't truly think there's a bus driver or anything, the flip just makes me uncomfy and honestly given that play is slow right now i'm just very about any weird things that show up. also i thiiiink (?) ultracool is an MI right now (he swapped into it; his info says that there's a mafia doctor) but unsure, things may have changed. either way he's probably green



Herbe said:


> mewtini said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Herbe said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> i love this pic of us
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> yes omg they really got your angles right
Click to expand...

same to u <3


----------



## Herbe

mewtini said:


> also i thiiiink (?) ultracool is an MI right now (he swapped into it; his info says that there's a mafia doctor


that might have been the switch that i thought ottercopter ended up with, i got mixed up

well, two third parties walk into a town, who do they think is a good lynch for the day?


----------



## mewtini

otter might've gotten it and i just missed it? i guess it doesn't matter either way though.



Herbe said:


> well, two third parties walk into a town, who do they think is a good lynch for the day?


awwwwww
idk! i feel like i have no grasp on this game, which is weird since there's also way less going on now? my actual thought right now is that we might as well go for seri or flora for now since we don't know anything else

i'm so ??? since there has to be at least some mafia that are actually active inthread


Spoiler: 3am me questioning very basic things about the game. take with very, very small grain of salt



i never got fully swayed into believing 100% that emmy is town, but i also think she might've derpcleared herself earlier when she was talking about the existence of a mafia chat ... ? and tbf her MI info did get verified. so.

also if keldeo's mistread is indeed weird, it could theoretically call panini into question i guess? if it confirmed that there is a role/power that could have messed with inspections? idk

lastly. i've really viscerally believed in seshas all game, but i know that they also aren't mechcleared so my tinfoil hat/paranoia says "it would really suck if seshas were a wolf. therefore seshas is a wolf," esp now that the kokorico revelation is knocking me out of correlating inthread effort with innocence as tightly as i was before


----------



## mewtini

Eifie said:


> @Keldeo how likely do you think it is that this game is easy?


throwback


----------



## Herbe

bro remember when eifie and keldeo were mason buds 50 years ago. that was a simpler time.


----------



## Herbe

i really do wanna just go Ape shitt and vote for seri or flora lmao. throwback to me thinking seri would be a good lynch. i trust seshas implicitly, although Fried Chicken Incident does give me pause. i think panini is kind of a non-issue right now? 

i'd love to hear seshas's thoughts cause she's about the only one i trust as town w no ulterior motives rn


----------



## Herbe

there was a post seshas made (journaling through the nightphase style) that predicted that rari would die on the night that he died and that would be the ballsiest move for a mafia member, she gained a lot of town points from me after that


----------



## mewtini

Herbe said:


> i really do wanna just go Ape shitt and vote for seri or flora lmao. throwback to me thinking seri would be a good lynch. i trust seshas implicitly, although Fried Chicken Incident does give me pause. i think panini is kind of a non-issue right now?
> 
> i'd love to hear seshas's thoughts cause she's about the only one i trust as town w no ulterior motives rn


panini is def a non-issue, i just brought her up because i was thinking about the integrity of the clear - not because it's something i'm worried about (and kind of nothing i mentioned in the spoiler is something i'm actually worried about, i am more worried about the fact that i feel very aimless right now)

tbh *flora* because why not honestly



Herbe said:


> there was a post seshas made (journaling through the nightphase style) that predicted that rari would die on the night that he died and that would be the ballsiest move for a mafia member, she gained a lot of town points from me after that


totally forgot about this. ty. good catch


----------



## kyeugh

Herbe said:


> although Fried Chicken Incident does give me pause.


huh,


----------



## Herbe

when chickens use suicide bombs, they get a nice crisp to them

(its re: kokorico)


----------



## Herbe

also yeah i think *flora* is a fine choice for right now


----------



## Mr. Ultracool

So are we lynching people who are inactive now?

*flora*


----------



## Herbe

Mr. Ultracool said:


> So are we lynching people who are inactive now?


don't think we necessarily have a better idea right now,,, no new evidence from inforoles is really coming out


----------



## Ottercopter

I'm not sure what a Flora lynch accomplishes at this stage, tbh. They or Serimachi might be mafia, but there's basically nothing to suggest they're the one killing people right now. So if we're wrong, it's just one less townie when our numbers are already dwindling.

Honestly, I'm most wary of Herbe.

Also, I've been wondering what to say about this since I read that VM died, so I guess I'll go ahead and get it out there. If my sudden backing off of Kyeugh after yesterday seems odd (which I guess not since nobody's actually brought it up?), that's because my swap chain failed again after starting with VM, so I no longer know what to make of it.
I'm not _completely_ un-suspicious of Kyeugh, I just don't have anything new to add and I recognize that my original evidence means much less than I thought it did. Certainly not eager to lynch her right now.
I still severely doubt you can swap with a mafia member, but it seems that there are quite a few non-mafia roles that can't be swapped either. '-'


Spoiler: Swap possibilities



Mr. Ultracool: Probably wouldn't do much except obscure who has the role, maybe.
Panini: Can verify Keldeo's claim if that's an issue, but we won't really learn anything new from it.

Seshas or IndigoEmmy: We at least DO know that you should be able to swap with a Mysterious Informant
Herbe or Mewitti: Sounds like it would fail, which would match their claims and kinda leave us at a dead end with no way to learn more.

Flora or Serimachi: Would risk losing the body swap power as long as it worked, but we could get a new role in the process and it might be helpful. ...As long as I'm not targetted this night phase. With no doctors left, I do think that's a distinct possibility.


----------



## kyeugh

Ottercopter said:


> If my sudden backing off of Kyeugh after yesterday seems odd (which I guess not since nobody's actually brought it up?), that's because my swap chain failed again after starting with VM, so I no longer know what to make of it.


 huh. he was just a doctor right? like normal town-aligned?


----------



## kyeugh

might not be bad to swap with emmy, since there seems to be some suspicion about her that can’t really be dispelled any other way.


----------



## Mr. Ultracool

Ottercopter said:


> Also, I've been wondering what to say about this since I read that VM died, so I guess I'll go ahead and get it out there. If my sudden backing off of Kyeugh after yesterday seems odd (which I guess not since nobody's actually brought it up?), that's because my swap chain failed again after starting with VM


If you don't think that it would give away too much, who are the fourth, sixth and last person you've swapped with?


----------



## Zori

Herbe said:


> i do find it interesting that "protect ur best friend from getting killed/losing <3" was a prevalent theme in this role set
> i think its cute


I'm lonely D:

also I had an emotionally draining experience in another Mafia game recently so


----------



## Zori

there are 10 people alive
Ultracool
Ottercopter
Mewtini
Herbe
kyeugh
Panini
Flora
Serimachi
Emmy
and Me

kyeugh+Panini+Seri are town, mewtini is 3p
Ultracool+Otter are mechanically unlikely mafia
Herbe is probably 3p?
leaving Emmy/Flora
which is a scam because I'm pretty sure there are 3 mafia left


----------



## Ottercopter

Seri is town? Am i forgetting something from this... god, 238 page thread?


----------



## Zori

Ottercopter said:


> Seri is town? Am i forgetting something from this... god, 238 page thread?


I peered into his soul
his 5 posts definitely seem to come from a lost townie, especially the one where he's wondering if claiming is a good idea


----------



## Zori

I'm irrationally scared that Ottercopter is part of a cult


----------



## Zori

Herbe said:


> don't think we necessarily have a better idea right now,,, no new evidence from inforoles is really coming out


bold of you to assume there are inforoles in the game


----------



## Ottercopter

Soooo how do we all feel about eachother? I'm still hoping to find a better lynch than Flora if possible.


----------



## Zori

mewtini said:


> tbh *flora* because why not honestly





Herbe said:


> also yeah i think *flora* is a fine choice for right now





Mr. Ultracool said:


> So are we lynching people who are inactive now?
> 
> *flora*


I don't think any of these players are mafia with Flora
mostly talking about Herbe here

I guess I'm kind of waiting to see what Emmy thinks of it?


----------



## kyeugh

i honestly feel weird about continuing to lynch inactives this late in the game and would prefer not to tbh? won’t die on that hill but also like c’mon tbh if this is the best we have i feel like we’re fucked

might be wrong about this but i feel like there are too many people sitting in the “probably 3p, who cares” pile


----------



## Zori

How annoyed would you be if I just started typing in this font all the time


----------



## Zori

kyeugh said:


> i honestly feel weird about continuing to lynch inactives this late in the game and would prefer not to tbh? won’t die on that hill but also like c’mon tbh if this is the best we have i feel like we’re fucked
> 
> might be wrong about this but i feel like there are too many people sitting in the “probably 3p, who cares” pile


That's just Mewtini + Herbe iirc


----------



## kyeugh

oh i think i was including mist in there fsr lol


----------



## Zori

Also I'm wondering
who would kill Vipera
obviously not someone who thought Vipera would be lynched today


----------



## mewtini

Ottercopter said:


> Soooo how do we all feel about eachother? I'm still hoping to find a better lynch than Flora if possible.





Seshas said:


> I don't think any of these players are mafia with Flora
> mostly talking about Herbe here
> 
> I guess I'm kind of waiting to see what Emmy thinks of it?


i would rather not lynch inactive as well, honestly i voted/started the train in a vague wondering if flora would get poked into approaching thread. *unvote *



Seshas said:


> How annoyed would you be if I just started typing in this font all the time


are you referring to what i think you’re referring to


----------



## mewtini

Seshas said:


> mewtini is 3p
> Herbe is probably 3p?


asking in relation to this because i think everyone seems to have the same read. why is herbe less likely to be telling the truth about 3p than i am?


----------



## mewtini

kyeugh said:


> might not be bad to swap with emmy, since there seems to be some suspicion about her that can’t really be dispelled any other way.


also this seems like a good bet


----------



## mewtini

last thing for now. if herbe actually does turn out to be mafia, we know seri is inno


----------



## Mr. Ultracool

So, how about swapping with herbe? Or was that already done and I'm getting confused?


----------



## mewtini

Mr. Ultracool said:


> So, how about swapping with herbe? Or was that already done and I'm getting confused?


i don't think it was. i don't really understand the swapping thing (def not as well as you do) but i feel like it's likely to fail - it should regardless of whether he's 3p or mafia, right?


----------



## mewtini

i don't really care but i think my gut would prefer an emmyswap


----------



## kyeugh

mewtini said:


> Seshas said:
> 
> 
> 
> mewtini is 3p
> Herbe is probably 3p?
> 
> 
> 
> asking in relation to this because i think everyone seems to have the same read. why is herbe less likely to be telling the truth about 3p than i am?
Click to expand...

herbe’s 3p claim was in response to a claimed partner flipping mafia—yours flipped not mafia. that’s my logic anyway


----------



## mewtini

mewtini said:


> Mr. Ultracool said:
> 
> 
> 
> So, how about swapping with herbe? Or was that already done and I'm getting confused?
> 
> 
> 
> i don't think it was. i don't really understand the swapping thing (def not as well as you do) but i feel like it's likely to fail - it should regardless of whether he's 3p or mafia, right?
Click to expand...

actually idk exactly how this works since it's possible herbe was a town-aligned lover and would be swappable because of that. i would still rather emmy but i take back part of what i said here

i feel really trapped insofar as like. what we even have left to look into. and it's really hard to not just continually go in circles? 


Seshas said:


> Also I'm wondering
> who would kill Vipera
> obviously not someone who thought Vipera would be lynched today


this is a good point


----------



## kyeugh

i feel slightly unplugged from this game because another game i’m in is frying my brain
where are we even at rn, today, in this thread here


----------



## mewtini

who to lynch. head empty


----------



## Zori

mewtini said:


> asking in relation to this because i think everyone seems to have the same read. why is herbe less likely to be telling the truth about 3p than i am?


also if mewtini is actually mafia I will feel betrayed


----------



## Ottercopter

mewtini said:


> Seshas said:
> 
> 
> 
> mewtini is 3p
> Herbe is probably 3p?
> 
> 
> 
> asking in relation to this because i think everyone seems to have the same read. why is herbe less likely to be telling the truth about 3p than i am?
Click to expand...

I think it's just that he claims to have a direct connection to an actual red flip in a game where we saw that an alien and a terrorist both flipped green. Like, it would be an incredibly bold, risky move, but... saying that he was Mawile's lover DID get everyone to leave him alone for the most part. And this claim was also pre-Rari_teh's inspector reveal.



Mr. Ultracool said:


> So, how about swapping with herbe? Or was that already done and I'm getting confused?


I'd rather lynch him if I'm honest. But we do have 48 hours to think this over and I do want to use it to the fullest.


----------



## mewtini

Seshas said:


> mewtini said:
> 
> 
> 
> asking in relation to this because i think everyone seems to have the same read. why is herbe less likely to be telling the truth about 3p than i am?
> 
> 
> 
> also if mewtini is actually mafia I will feel betrayed
Click to expand...

don't worry tbh. i've got your back.
i have nothing to do in quarantine so my play level will probably not really drop btw.


----------



## mewtini

just fwiw i didn't ask the question about herbe because i'm still gung-ho about putting him in my 'harmless' pile, i just wanted to make sure everyone was on the same page. 

i'm laying off a lot post-mawile fuckery but i guess i feel like, at least to me, a lot of the weirdness that he's been involved in felt explainable. so ... i'm not against lynching him and i'll probably even vote on him if it comes to that, i just would rather figure out flora/seri who we know nothing about (by 'figure out' i don't mean kill) and am worried that a herbe train will kill discussion

just for full transparency ... this is really dumb but because this was both herbe's and my first mafia game i think i am projecting how i would play onto him a bit too much. i don't personally think i, as a first-timer, could have kept up the solvyness/activity in the way he did early on while being scum and i would, frankly, be impressed if that ended up being the case :x



Ottercopter said:


> Like, it would be an incredibly bold, risky move, but... saying that he was Mawile's lover DID get everyone to leave him alone for the most part. And this claim was also pre-Rari_teh's inspector reveal.


i guess this is a fair point. idk if i feel strongly about it being pre-inspector reveal because i think it was more or less a given that some cop existed ingame though haha. on the other hand, i remember herbe also saying "we invite all cops to check us out :)" which is kind of awk. i also got swayed by him (yesterDay i think?) admitting that lynching him made the most sense, but given his cop-invite, maybe he's just been falling back on that trust-building tactic repeatedly

tentative proposal. lynch herbe and emmyswap?
(also, a q: as we wind down a bit, could swapping with flora or seri become more useful at some point?)


----------



## Herbe

well, what can i say in my defense that hasn't already been said? here are some of my thoughts:


mewtini said:


> i just would rather figure out flora/seri who we know nothing about (by 'figure out' i don't mean kill)


well, yeah, you don't necessarily mean that. but how the hell are we gonna learn about flora other than a kill there? can't bodyswap with her, you'll lose the power if she's a regular inactive and you'll lose the power if she's a lurking maf. 


mewtini said:


> tentative proposal. lynch herbe and emmyswap?


counterproposal: swap w emmy, who swaps with me. the original person will get to check emmy's power, and it'll either end at emmy, or emmy will get my role and confirm me. 

also i see me in ur sig mewtini <3


----------



## mewtini

Herbe said:


> well, yeah, you don't necessarily mean that.


 i would have edited to say "i don't _necessarily_ mean kill." just didn't feel like doubleposting again to make that revision. anyway ... i share kyeugh's apprehension in inactive-lynching :| but don't really know how to get around it. i still think swapping could be a viable solution if we manage to figure out what different outcomes could signify - we don't necessarily need to keep the power infinitely. (in re: flora, doesn't the swap just fail in the case where they're mafia? idrk. either way i'd rather attempt to swap than kill another inno, i feel like)


Herbe said:


> counterproposal: swap w emmy, who swaps with me. the original person will get to check emmy's power, and it'll either end at emmy, or emmy will get my role and confirm me.


i can vibe with this. though, and this might be a kind of mean q - as i mentioned earlier, you were pretty willing to get lynched yesterDay and didn't put up much of a fight when the topic came up. what changed? (i'm guessing the answer is just "i want to keep playing :(" but i figure i'll ask regardless)


Herbe said:


> also i see me in ur sig mewtini <3


yes king!


----------



## mewtini

also in re: counterproposal, i'd be back to "who tf do we lynch"town


----------



## Herbe

mewtini said:


> you were pretty willing to get lynched yesterDay and didn't put up much of a fight when the topic came up. what changed? (i'm guessing the answer is just "i want to keep playing :("


i took benadryl but when the Sleepy hit, i drank an energy drink, so i think im a little woozy from that right now
i really do want to keep playing. i deleted a part of that post i made where i was like "im not offended if you try to lynch me today, but i don't think it's the best choice today. maybe it would be the best choice tomorrow, who knows"


----------



## mewtini

herbe you fool. stop with the 1am monster

yeah that was pretty much the energy i remember you exuding. so for a second when the vibe changed i was like hmmmm. i gotcha though


----------



## Zori

I want to say Herbe not mafia

As one of my top suspects, I really need to see emmy's reaction
D:


----------



## Ottercopter

I still think Flora is a wasted lynch that doesn't get us any closer to finding the mafia member that's actually killing people right now and just cuts down our numbers. I think even abstaining would be less risky.

Still trying to think of the best way to swap. I'd like to think that we could clear Seshas and Emmy first, then go to Flora or Serimachi to get a new role because there'd be nobody else worth swapping with by then, but.... that's two more days of mafia kills and I don't think we can actually afford that. 

For what it's worth, though, Emmy's been pretty eager to play the swapping game. If we already concluded by that point that being able to swap with a mafia member would be kinda game breaking, that would be kinda odd. Although I guess not any more or less iffy than Herbe inviting inspectors to check him and Mawile?



Herbe said:


> counterproposal: swap w emmy, who swaps with me. the original person will get to check emmy's power, and it'll either end at emmy, or emmy will get my role and confirm me.


Even if you really are just third party, the swap would almost definitely end at you and render that pointless, like Mewitti said. My paranoid brain is wondering if you said this just so the Mafia have an easy idea of how the swap chain went this night and be able to pick off the body swapper.

On the note of swapping, still wondering why it failed with VM and Kyeugh even though I know we're not gonna get answers until probably the end of the game at this point. Kyeugh, I kinda wanna ask you if you think keeping your role obscured means you can still get some potential active use out of it, but I also doubt you can really give any real answer to that and I have no idea how to treat that. Uuuuugh.


----------



## Ottercopter

*Mewtini (oops, I did it again)


----------



## Zori

I need to check when all emmy said she would be fine to swap

since it may be possible? that the swap failed with kyeugh/Vipera and both were town


----------



## kyeugh

Ottercopter said:


> Kyeugh, I kinda wanna ask you if you think keeping your role obscured means you can still get some potential active use out of it, but I also doubt you can really give any real answer to that and I have no idea how to treat that. Uuuuugh.


i think the important part about my role—that i'm informed i'm visited—is already out there, so i don't think fully claiming would really compromise its usefulness.  i just don't really see why i should claim, i guess.  it wouldn't really be that useful, unless this is about you not trusting me at my word about why it might be unswappable, which... fair, i guess, but i don't think a full claim is really going to clear that up either.  all we know is that i didn't swap for one reason or another, and you can either believe it's because i'm mafia, or not... but if i am scum, i'm going to lie about my role anyway, so i'm not really sure what claiming helps.


----------



## Ottercopter

Fair. Did you get a notification that I visited you?


----------



## mewtini

Ottercopter said:


> For what it's worth, though, Emmy's been pretty eager to play the swapping game.


this is fair, i agree with seshas that i need to see her reaction sometime toDay to figure that out. i feel like i'll have a huge facepalm moment if she ends up being a wolf because i gave her so many passes on things that i thought could hypothetically be weird but seemed NAI

also i would really rather skylar not claim


----------



## mewtini

kyeugh said:


> i think the important part about my role—that i'm informed i'm visited


is there more to claim beyond this? i'd just kind of assumed it was something like psychic/that there wasn't much more to your role


----------



## kyeugh

Ottercopter said:


> Fair. Did you get a notification that I visited you?


nope!  i've reported all my visits so far.  pretty weird... is it possible you got blocked actually?  this didn't occur to me until just now.


Ottercopter said:


> I think even abstaining would be less risky.


meh, i don't think abstaining is really anything tbh.  what would we achieve?  do we have inforoles that could turn up useful information with the saved time?  i feel like it's just dragging stuff out tbh, i don't think abstaining really does anything for us that is going to help our odds of wining the game in the long run.


mewtini said:


> kyeugh said:
> 
> 
> 
> i think the important part about my role—that i'm informed i'm visited
> 
> 
> 
> is there more to claim beyond this? i'd just kind of assumed it was something like psychic/that there wasn't much more to your role
Click to expand...

yep.


----------



## Ottercopter

kyeugh said:


> nope!  i've reported all my visits so far.  pretty weird... is it possible you got blocked actually?  this didn't occur to me until just now.


I doubt it since we already killed RNP. Like, that would explain VM, but... I got both my swap fail PMs within an hour of first day phase ending, and within ten minutes last night. They'd have to have sent in their night actions pretty quickly or maybe had some kind of daytime trigger phrase like me. I think it's highly unlikely either way.


----------



## mewtini

like i guess it's possible that that role is of either alignment, but i also will point out that skylar offered to roleclaim like ages ago (during the RNP debacle) which gains points from me. like tinfoil!theory could say that it was somehow like, vaguely opportunistic because she later voted for RNP but i would then say that it would be a really bad tinfoil theory for reasons already discussed (i only mention this because otter tried to bring it up in her initial longpost and i strongly disagreed with this in particular)



kyeugh said:


> nope! i've reported all my visits so far. pretty weird... is it possible you got blocked actually? this didn't occur to me until just now.


@otter pretty much, is it possible that a failed swap doesn't constitute a visit? if not i could imagine a blocker trying to cast suspicion this way, idk



kyeugh said:


> meh, i don't think abstaining is really anything tbh. what would we achieve?


if we really end up not having anything to go on by lynchtime, idk how i feel about voting about anyone with how little confidence i have/no real SRs and for a bit i considered abstaining. on the other hand we're probably still at least a little ways off from mylo right


----------



## mewtini

oh i posted before seeing otter's reply. the fail is probably purely mech then


----------



## Ottercopter

Kyeugh, Panini, Ultracool, is there anyone you're particularly supsicious of?


----------



## IndigoClaudia

Bleh i just got back. No one is voting to hang me, right?


----------



## IndigoClaudia

Seshas said:


> As one of my top suspects, I really need to see emmy's reaction
> D:


Reaction to what?


----------



## Ottercopter

Not yet, no. But a few people are suspicious of you, so I'm sure they'd like to hear more of your thoughts.


----------



## IndigoClaudia

i'm the mysterious informant. I only voted for the mafia so far except for that one time, which was a mistake and everyone else did it. Plus do i look like the person who would join a secret crime syndacate?


----------



## IndigoClaudia

Also i'm bad at mafia so you would know earlier if i were the mafia.


----------



## Zori

we're talking about lynching between flora + herbe rn
what are your thoughts on that


----------



## IndigoClaudia

Idk... flora hasn't been active so there isn't a way to know if flora is mafia.
Herbe is a little suspicious... but idk either?


----------



## Ottercopter

IndigoEmmy said:


> Idk... flora hasn't been active so there isn't a way to know if flora is mafia.
> Herbe is a little suspicious... but idk either?


Well, is there anyone or anything that DOES stand out to you?



IndigoEmmy said:


> Idk... flora hasn't been active so there isn't a way to know if flora is mafia.
> Herbe is a little suspicious... but idk either?





Seshas said:


> we're talking about lynching between flora + herbe rn
> what are your thoughts on that


Not trying to de-rail discussion, I just have to start this at some point, you know? It's not you, it's me.

IndigoEmmy, if you haven't caught up, we're gonna try and keep the swap chain between the three of us for now. If that changes, we've got a day to think it over anyway.


----------



## IndigoClaudia

No one seems suspicious to me atm


----------



## mewtini

örgh. i'm actively TRing almost everyone

emmy can you talk more about herbe?


----------



## mewtini

also i know seshas disagrees here but i'm not super convinced that seri is any more towny than flora and i'm seeing it as coinflip flora/seri + herbe ... i just don't think it takes a lot of effort to read their posts as mafia pop-ins. like granted it can totally go either way, i'm just taking what i can get, even if it's admittedly just grasping at straws. interested in thoughts about it


----------



## Zori

Ottercopter said:


> Well, is there anyone or anything that DOES stand out to you?





IndigoEmmy said:


> No one seems suspicious to me atm


It's not you, it's me.


----------



## Zori

if Emmy is Mafia than Flora/Herbe are the same alignment probably


----------



## mewtini

searched thread just now for mentions of serimachi's username and pretty much got nothing except for this


Mawile said:


> I haven't been taking the best notes for d2, but I feel that I would still vote for an inactive because it doesn't make sense to me to keep around someone who isn't talking, rather than someone who's actively participating. So probably serimachi or Odie, but at least serimachi has at least posted a couple times.


+town, though could be a distancing attempt?

fsr i just talked myself into wanting to lynch seri over flora. i still think that swapping into an inactive (yes, i know it would be abandoning the role, but we'll run out of other super-needed clears anyway hopefully?) and lynching the other might be the way to go at some point


----------



## IndigoClaudia

mewtini said:


> emmy can you talk more about herbe?



Herbe doesn't seem overly suspicious but for now, herbe is my vote.


----------



## mewtini

mewtini said:


> fsr i just talked myself into wanting to lynch seri over flora.


i don't actually want to lynch either though

seri is definitely not killing anyone (esp given their last login date)


----------



## mewtini

IndigoEmmy said:


> Herbe doesn't seem overly suspicious but for now, herbe is my vote.


i thought you read him as sus? i was mostly asking about why you thought that


IndigoEmmy said:


> Herbe is a little suspicious...


----------



## mewtini

Mawile said:


> I haven't been taking the best notes for d2, but I feel that I would still vote for an inactive because it doesn't make sense to me to keep around someone who isn't talking, rather than someone who's actively participating. So probably serimachi or Odie, but at least serimachi has at least posted a couple times.


on second thought i don't know if i think this is +town for seri, mawile is still moreso lifting up odie as a candidate here and i think with the way everyone's logic was going it was far more likely that we lynched odie than seri (who was getting widely null-to-townread for their few posts. especially because eif/kel TRed them)


----------



## IndigoClaudia

All i mean is he is the most suspicious target for now, at least when compared to me and flora (but with flora, who knows) so i'd vote for him (to die) but i don't have a reason really. I mean idk


----------



## mewtini

gotcha. sorry. i got confused by the journey from "a little suspicious" to "no one seems suspicious" to "doesn't seem overly suspicious" within a few posts


----------



## mewtini

should we ping flora


----------



## IndigoClaudia

Yeah lets do that.


----------



## mewtini

the reason i haven't is that i still think i may be leaning more towards emmy/herbe than anything involving flora. i doubt that they're the killing mafia. then again there are probably like, what, three? oh god oh fuck

to reiterate. head empty. sheep seshas


----------



## IndigoClaudia

Here is a question. Why does everyone think i'm Mafia?


----------



## mewtini

no one thinks anyone is mafia

it's process of elimination now


----------



## IndigoClaudia

That's good to know.


----------



## Zori

I will whiteknight serimachi to the death tbh

whiteknight - Townreading someone to the point of overtly blocking/disputing the validity reason to scumread them


----------



## kyeugh

uhh, i don’t really find anyone particularly suspicious, no. of the potential lynches being discussed, i guess i’m at herbe > seri > flora? herbe feels unresolved to me, what with the mawile thing. we’re kind of just taking him at his word, right? then between seri/flora, i lean seri because at least there’s the smallest amount of posting/interaction to go on there.


----------



## mewtini

i'm so excited and scared to see graveyard chat when this is all over.


----------



## IndigoClaudia

lol


----------



## Ottercopter

I think Seshas was contrasting the MI claims' level of vagueness and noting that yours stood out for being a little more concrete. What we've heard is:

Seshas: The mafia have someone pulling the strings behind the curtain
Mr. Ultracool: There's an evil doctor
IndigoEmmy: There are nanobot and magic doctors that don't mix well
Odie-Pie had.. something, but it died with them, unfortunately
Although even laying these side by side and kiiiiiinda seeing what Seshas means, I don't think it makes IE any more suspicious.

 Like, we're assuming the evil doctor was JackPK since VM didn't inherit his ability, yeah? Having trouble wording this, but I guess I'm not sure why there'd be a mafia MI if it didn't give them some knowledge they could use. An evil doctor in-group could maybe try and trigger healer clashes, but there haven't been any and JackPK was a mafia kill who flip red.


----------



## IndigoClaudia

Without quoting, i can go into more detail with mine. I'm just a very vague person.


----------



## Ottercopter

*Who didn't flip red, ugh


----------



## IndigoClaudia

IndigoEmmy said:


> Without quoting, i can go into more detail with mine. I'm just a very vague person.


lol nvm that was pretty much all the info my pm had.


----------



## mewtini

tbqh my very light emmy """suspicion""" is admittedly like, disregarding the MI claim and more that i haven't been super TRing anything she's done lately (as opposed to other people's posts). i think it's also far more likely that this is more a product of her playstyle/the current situation we find ourselves in, though, which is why i'm so far away from any real FoS on her ... but i'd also maybe rather lynch her than flora on gut right now

in re: jackpk i don't even know what to think about that anymore tbh

i just don't know where to fit potential mafia roles. like of the living players,
- flora/seri unknown. seshas hard-vouching for seri; if one is a wolf, so is the other. even if either of these two are maf, unlikely to be killing roles; seri hasn't logged on since the beginning of the month
- panini and ultracool have been MIA but both are cleared (by cop!kel and bodyswap respectively)
- otter mech clear, and i'll feel really betrayed if she's town
- skylar isn't mech cleared but i'll also feel really betrayed if she's town
- i still believe in 3p!herbe
- seshas likely town but i'm concerned because if anyone is steering convo, it's them
- emmy likely town and has corroborated MI info....
- me!

so where would a w/w/(w?) team fit? if we take the mechanical clears at face-value and doubt everyone else, we only have flora/seri/emmy/seshas/maybe skylar to work with


----------



## mewtini

left out herbe in that last list, sorry


----------



## IndigoClaudia

mewtini said:


> my very light emmy """suspicion"""


oh no... I'm """suspicious""" with a lot of quotation marks.


----------



## mewtini

IndigoEmmy said:


> oh no... I'm """suspicious""" with a lot of quotation marks.


my point was that it's not real suspicion


----------



## Ottercopter

mewtini said:


> - otter mech clear, and i'll feel really betrayed if she's *town*


Guess you're betrayed, then


----------



## IndigoClaudia

:D
yay.


----------



## mewtini

omfg


----------



## Ottercopter

Ottercopter said:


> mewtini said:
> 
> 
> 
> - otter mech clear, and i'll feel really betrayed if she's *town*
> 
> 
> 
> Guess you're betrayed, then
Click to expand...

Don't worry about all 2,000 typos I've made so far, they don't coun-


----------



## mewtini

mewtini said:


> - otter mech clear, and i'll feel really betrayed if she's NOT town
> - skylar isn't mech cleared but i'll also feel really betrayed if she's NOT town


see? like the typo never happened


----------



## mewtini

otter did you just bold-vote for town tbh? hardclaim otter mafia


----------



## Ottercopter

Kokorico's mistake was not bombing the town tbh


----------



## kyeugh

mewtini said:


> if we take the mechanical clears at face-value and doubt everyone else, we only have flora/seri/emmy/seshas/maybe skylar


+ herbe
hard read seshas/serimachi/herbe w/w/w


----------



## mewtini

i'm guessing you're mostly joking but hm.
in that hypothetical would it make sense for seshas to be covering seri in the way they are? 


Spoiler: deep end, jumped



if seshas is town then our possibilities go down to flora/seri/emmy/skylar/herbe.
i kind of feel like any scumteam out of that group would be weird (and since the NKs have been fairly, like, well-aimed? KP definitely doesn't lie with seri and it probably isn't on flora) and there's also a pretty low chance that herbe and seri are w/w, which reduces it down even more in those respective cases


----------



## Zori

I know I don't care but as mafia I never kill vipera here
I actually need to see who thought there was a good chance at lynching vipera today


----------



## mewtini

yeah. 

your point about that stuck out to me so much because i can't really think of anyone who seemed super into that idea (maybe i only think that because i hadn't really considered it as a real possibility) so it's a good indicator, i just don't know who it would be lol


----------



## Herbe

Seshas said:


> I know I don't care but as mafia I never kill vipera here
> I actually need to see who thought there was a good chance at lynching vipera today


devil's advocate, maybe scum just wanted to off the doctor without taking a chance on the lynch not going their way this day. just being safe about it. i just don't think that's as foolproof of a plan as it's presented.


----------



## mewtini

oh honestly it's also possible that they just figured VM was the safest NK, since there aren't any other doctors that could've protected him


----------



## Herbe

Herbe said:


> i just don't think that's as foolproof of a plan as it's presented.


realised this could be ambiguous - i meant that judging off of who thought vipera would be a lynchkill.


----------



## Zori

fair


----------



## mewtini

Seshas said:


> I know I don't care but as mafia I never kill vipera here


sorry, actually - what do you mean by this?


----------



## Zori

mewtini said:


> sorry, actually - what do you mean by this?


I am infracting one of my sacred ruled of FM playing
"never give a crap about how others read you"
which tbh I have broken a lot especially in more intense games where I'm on the block


----------



## Zori

or since I realized that didn't actually answer the question
It's a reason why I'm not mafia


----------



## mewtini

i was more curious why mafia!you would have avoided a VM lynch! i still didn't really think town heading in that lynch direction 100%


----------



## Zori

mewtini said:


> if we take the mechanical clears at face-value and doubt everyone else, we only have flora/seri/emmy/seshas/maybe skylar


which FMPoV (taking me and seri out) we get
flora/emmy/maybe herbe/maybe kyeugh
which is slightly awkward ngl


----------



## mewtini

mewtini said:


> i was more curious why mafia!you would have avoided a VM _NK_! i still didn't really think town heading in that lynch direction 100%


fixing typo, sorry!!


----------



## Zori

mewtini said:


> i was more curious why mafia!you would have avoided a VM lynch! i still didn't really think town heading in that lynch direction 100%


by kill I meant nightkill


----------



## mewtini

yeah i meant to say nk!


----------



## Zori

lul rip that
as scum I would always stick to my guns on that ML
since I'd see them as not confirmed probably

this discussion is probably pointless tbh bc you get hardly any value from it coming out of my mouth but w/e


----------



## mewtini

gotcha. i guess i felt like it was possibly incongruous (i agree with herbe and, honestly, i was expecting a VM nightkill) and don't really see why mafia-anyone would have wanted to leave it up to pushing the mislynch


----------



## Zori

fun fact:
exactly 1 year ago I was lying down on the carpet of Charlotte airport


----------



## Panini

Blah sorry I thought I was only gone for 1/3 of the phase but it's actually been over 2/3rds. My bad.



Ottercopter said:


> Kyeugh, Panini, Ultracool, is there anyone you're particularly supsicious of?


I wish I had something spicy but if I'm being honest I've been feeling a bit fatigued out and am having trouble with my thoughts
I'm on board with Herbe/Seri/flora pool today bc I think there's probably a hit in there, even though it's a bit blinder of a shot than we'd ideally have to make.

I don't think I'm really as interested in Emmy as an option tbh- I get the idea that the MI info is kind of notably more specific than Seshas' but I don't see why that somehow makes her less credible comparatively when it's still like, stuff that was essentially prophesied and then became stuff we saw play out? If anything that just means Seshas's stuff is weirder for being vague because we'll never have full verification that Mawile == who it was referring to because Negrek died conveniently the night we did that iirc.

Out of these then I guess I see the most possible motivation for Herbe? 
Mewtini/Mist/Herbe/Rari(originally otter) all 3P does seem like a bit much and Herbe's claim is easily thinner to me than mewtini's based mostly on the idea that mewtini has had otherwise zero reason to start today like she did and Mist's explanation + flip (as well as the unanimous wagon) seem legit based on what was described?
I've also been a bit sus of the fact that he's been floating around even though he doesn't have a wincon because I think in most situations I'd imagine people who no longer have a way of winning just get removed from the game but like, potentially moot point I guess if @mewtini can now confirm that Butterfree just happens to be generous about maintaining active lifestyles for the post-loss third party community? 
The main thing in Herbe's defense though is that I don't know if I'd sink my own game in order to preserve out-group mafia!Mawile. The stories different I guess if inGroupHoneyPot!Herbe attaches to Mawile randomly by chance? And then just realises late that Mawile's important outgroup mafia via private comms? (I'd have to have another look to tell if Herbe acts like he's had a sudden switch or more like he's worried going into the EOD) idk if that's just me stretching for a way to fit it though.

Re flora/seri, obv I feel ambivalent about the two but I also don't really get Seshas' soul read. I'm debating if it's reasonable to give them the space to do so because I feel like the way they've been talking about worlds still strikes me as authentic but it's also notably the only one of the three I think anyone's bothering doing a lot of footwork against,,

Going to crash, be back up in like 6 or 7 hours


----------



## Panini

Oh I wrote that kind of unclear so basically what I'm asking re: mewtini, do you have like, an altered win con now that you've lost or something? Or are you also supposed to just bitterly survive to the end or something?


----------



## Ottercopter

Oh, if we're gonna lynch *Herbe,* I guess we have to actually... vote for him, huh?


----------



## mewtini

Panini said:


> I feel ambivalent about the two but I also don't really get Seshas' soul read. I'm debating if it's reasonable to give them the space to do so because I feel like the way they've been talking about worlds still strikes me as authentic but it's also notably the only one of the three I think anyone's bothering doing a lot of footwork against


exactly how i feel. belligerent part of me wants to vote seri for this reason hah



Panini said:


> Oh I wrote that kind of unclear so basically what I'm asking re: mewtini, do you have like, an altered win con now that you've lost or something? Or are you also supposed to just bitterly survive to the end or something?


i didn’t get a follow-up pm like herbe did honestly. my initial role pm just said that i won if mist hit alien wincon, even if i’m dead. that being said idk why mine would have a removal/death clause, i think that sort of flavor is less applicable to my roletype than it is to lovers or something


----------



## mewtini

i’m just assuming that i lose 100% since i haven’t heard anything otherwise



Panini said:


> The stories different I guess if inGroupHoneyPot!Herbe attaches to Mawile randomly by chance?


if they’re w/w why would mawile target w!herbe? (also i want to say that ingroup honeypot feels like a strange mafia role/one that would disadvantage them, but i dunno)


----------



## mewtini

Panini said:


> Mewtini/Mist/Herbe/Rari(originally otter) all 3P does seem like a bit much


wasn’t otter/rari’s role town aligned but with another wincon. aiui they were never actually _fully_ 3p?

that’s sort of my weirdness actually, i think it’s perfectly plausible that there are three 3p roles


----------



## mewtini

also according to herbe’s story he started the game as town and only turned 3p if someone targeted him during the night


----------



## kyeugh

mewtini said:


> if they’re w/w why would mawile target w!herbe? (also i want to say that ingroup honeypot feels like a strange mafia role/one that would disadvantage them, but i dunno)


if they’re w/w then mawile didn’t have to target herbe, the whole thing would be made up


----------



## Panini

mewtini said:


> Panini said:
> 
> 
> 
> The stories different I guess if inGroupHoneyPot!Herbe attaches to Mawile randomly by chance?
> 
> 
> 
> if they’re w/w why would mawile target w!herbe? (also i want to say that ingroup honeypot feels like a strange mafia role/one that would disadvantage them, but i dunno)
Click to expand...

Because Mawile wouldn't know Herbe was maf due to the outgroupness
Strange Role is a fair enough speculation though - I guess you could argue that it'd just be a twist on a neighbouriser which isn't entirely out there? But it does feel kinda wrong for this set-up like, specifically unless it's intended as a catching PRs thing, but the value on that is lower than just like, putting in something role-cop esque

It's also plausible they just like. lied about the minutia of their role. Or that mafia knew who Mawile was even though Mawile apparently didn't know who was mafia.


----------



## kyeugh

i hate to say this bc i really want mewtini to be town but the way she’s been treating herbe has felt v weird to me basically since mawile died and if herbe flips scum i’m going to feel pretty bad about her

also *herbe*


----------



## Panini

kyeugh said:


> mewtini said:
> 
> 
> 
> if they’re w/w why would mawile target w!herbe? (also i want to say that ingroup honeypot feels like a strange mafia role/one that would disadvantage them, but i dunno)
> 
> 
> 
> if they’re w/w then mawile didn’t have to target herbe, the whole thing would be made up
Click to expand...

This also if Mawile was just never outgroup in the first place


----------



## IndigoClaudia

kyeugh said:


> also *herbe*


I'm just going to go with whoever is the most popular unless it's me and also go with *herbe* because i saw 1 vote for him.


----------



## kyeugh

IndigoEmmy said:


> kyeugh said:
> 
> 
> 
> also *herbe*
> 
> 
> 
> I'm just going to go with whoever is the most popular unless it's me and also go with *herbe* because i saw 1 vote for him.
Click to expand...


----------



## Panini

kyeugh said:


> i hate to say this bc i really want mewtini to be town but the way she’s been treating herbe has felt v weird to me basically since mawile died and if herbe flips scum i’m going to feel pretty bad about her
> 
> also *herbe*


tbh I did have the thought of like
mewtini claiming to be a 3p protector isn't actually that shocking but the fact that it's with Mist and not Herbe is the part that surprises me haha

I do think the timing of her claim probably does make more sense as genuine 3P than maf though - she gained very little from claiming today when her name was already in the town stack for most people


----------



## Panini

en*herbe*ify


----------



## Herbe

I have to help my mom w/ getting our house ready for a showing so I'm not really gonna be here but if discussion has already stalled, then I guess it's whatever. Honestly I can't wait to get into deadchat lmao. Peace!


----------



## IndigoClaudia

bye *herbe  *


----------



## mewtini

kyeugh said:


> if they’re w/w then mawile didn’t have to target herbe, the whole thing would be made up


oh gotcha. sorry. i totally just didn't understand, thought we were all assuming ingroup-mawile so i got confused :p


Panini said:


> mewtini claiming to be a 3p protector


protector?

also, man. to be clear, i was being genuine when i said my herbe attachment is just a tone thing. if he flips scum i'll understand being sussed, i guess, but i also don't think i ever would have claimed or broken my role-silence as mafia there when i'm in everyone's town pile ... not even to curry points! i feel like if i were to make a bogus claim at this point in the game, i would've tried to cook something up that could defend herbe? (tbh idk how i would have done it. but not like that.) 

maybe i stuck with talking about herbe for too long, i just gut-felt like he was 3p. sorry tbh. i always wanted to lynch him above flora/seri today, and maybe i didn't make that obvious enough. :P 

*herbe*


----------



## mewtini

tbh this probably just sounds like a retcon but now that i'm thinking about it harder, i can understand herbe executing the kills that have happened and could see his VM talk as an effort to seem comfortable/relaxed. i got pocketed really hard by his early game and i probably will shame-drop out if he flips wolf lol but it does by far make the most sense, i think i let myself avoid dealing with it because everyone else seemed mostly lukewarm about it ... i'm actually kind of sorry. the more objectively i think about it, the more i think herbe is probably a wolf

non-herbe possibilities are flora/seri/emmy/seshas/skylar
- _assuming herbe flips red_, the remaining w/w team is between flora/seri/seshas (skylar sussed him, emmy pretty easily followed vote) and i think it easily becomes either seshas/seri or seshas/flora
-_ if he doesn't_, then no one gets crossed off of that suspect list. i think?


----------



## IndigoClaudia

i haven't been super involved today. But yeah hang herbe.


----------



## Zori

the herbe wagon is making me slightly uncomfortable


----------



## IndigoClaudia

why?


----------



## Zori

just like
everyone: /vote herbe

if herbe is mafia
she ideally has a mafia buddy


----------



## IndigoClaudia

Seshas said:


> she


(herbe is a guy)


----------



## Zori

frick


----------



## IndigoClaudia

theres no editing it on mafia so if you delete it i won't tell herbe.


----------



## IndigoClaudia

as well as deleting my posts too.


----------



## Zori

Seshas said:


> frick


sorry

anyways

the solution I was initally thinking of was that they were trying to go in deep
but it's not ottercopter because iirc ottercopter had no reason to start the wagon when they could coast on Flora


----------



## mewtini

idrk what to do because i do think objectively/mathematically it could point to herbe, i just don't want to believe it :T and it probably does make more sense to go down that route than to go with serimachi. sorry if i sounded defensive tbh.



Seshas said:


> if herbe is mafia
> he ideally has a mafia buddy


if we were to assume that there's mafia on the wagon thus far, of the list it would be emmy/skylar distancing (more likely emmy)


----------



## IndigoClaudia

mewtini said:


> (more likely emmy)


I disagree. If i were mafia, you would know because i'm almost brand new to mafia.


----------



## mewtini

IndigoEmmy said:


> I disagree. If i were mafia, you would know because i'm almost brand new to mafia.


my point is that if skylar were mafia voting for herbe, it would be weird since her push seems more earnest than hypothetical-mafia you just following a vote

i'm not talking about the game overall rn


----------



## mewtini

i'm not sincerely pushing you as mafia at the moment though


----------



## IndigoClaudia

That is good to know.
Mark my words if i get hanged my ghost will tell you all "I told you so"


----------



## kyeugh

mewtini said:


> tbh this probably just sounds like a retcon but now that i'm thinking about it harder, i can understand herbe executing the kills that have happened and could see his VM talk as an effort to seem comfortable/relaxed. i got pocketed really hard by his early game and i probably will shame-drop out if he flips wolf lol but it does by far make the most sense, i think i let myself avoid dealing with it because everyone else seemed mostly lukewarm about it ... i'm actually kind of sorry. the more objectively i think about it, the more i think herbe is probably a wolf
> 
> non-herbe possibilities are flora/seri/emmy/seshas/skylar
> - _assuming herbe flips red_, the remaining w/w team is between flora/seri/seshas (skylar sussed him, emmy pretty easily followed vote) and i think it easily becomes either seshas/seri or seshas/flora
> -_ if he doesn't_, then no one gets crossed off of that suspect list. i think?


idk whether to read this as a walkback because i said i'd feel bad about you if herbe flips red, but that seems to obvious so i guess i'm going to read it as genuine

if herbe flips not-mafia i think like... that does not really make sense honestly?  like i don't think i strongly read herbe as scum so much as just, him flipping scum would not _not_ make sense whereas him flipping town would be kind of a question mark


----------



## mewtini

kyeugh said:


> idk whether to read this as a walkback because i said i'd feel bad about you if herbe flips red, but that seems to obvious so i guess i'm going to read it as genuine


i mean it was definitely triggered by that, tbh

i do think that mathematically a w/w/w team being only between everyone who isn't herbe would be bizarre


----------



## mewtini

kyeugh said:


> like i don't think i strongly read herbe as scum so much as just, him flipping scum would not _not_ make sense whereas him flipping town would be kind of a question mark


basically i guess it didn't come off like this but like ... i think i clashed with you in particular about herbe because i just kept thinking "well i'm not scumreading him at all!!!" and didn't realize that that wasn't what we were disagreeing on


----------



## Zori

I'm rethinking the basic assumption about there being 5 mafia
because the interactions really don't make sense


----------



## mewtini

how so?


----------



## mewtini

well, wait. aren't we assuming 6? or are you excluding kokorico


----------



## Zori

Ottercopter said:


> Oh, if we're gonna lynch *Herbe,* I guess we have to actually... vote for him, huh?





kyeugh said:


> i hate to say this bc i really want mewtini to be town but the way she’s been treating herbe has felt v weird to me basically since mawile died and if herbe flips scum i’m going to feel pretty bad about her
> 
> also *herbe*





IndigoEmmy said:


> kyeugh said:
> 
> 
> 
> also *herbe*
> 
> 
> 
> I'm just going to go with whoever is the most popular unless it's me and also go with *herbe* because i saw 1 vote for him.
Click to expand...




Panini said:


> en*herbe*ify





mewtini said:


> kyeugh said:
> 
> 
> 
> if they’re w/w then mawile didn’t have to target herbe, the whole thing would be made up
> 
> 
> 
> oh gotcha. sorry. i totally just didn't understand, thought we were all assuming ingroup-mawile so i got confused :p
> 
> 
> Panini said:
> 
> 
> 
> mewtini claiming to be a 3p protector
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> protector?
> 
> also, man. to be clear, i was being genuine when i said my herbe attachment is just a tone thing. if he flips scum i'll understand being sussed, i guess, but i also don't think i ever would have claimed or broken my role-silence as mafia there when i'm in everyone's town pile ... not even to curry points! i feel like if i were to make a bogus claim at this point in the game, i would've tried to cook something up that could defend herbe? (tbh idk how i would have done it. but not like that.)
> 
> maybe i stuck with talking about herbe for too long, i just gut-felt like he was 3p. sorry tbh. i always wanted to lynch him above flora/seri today, and maybe i didn't make that obvious enough. :P
> 
> *herbe*
Click to expand...

5 votes on Herbe
Otter -> Kyeugh -> Emmy -> Panini -> Mewtini
the nonvoters are Herbe/Seshas/Seri/Flora/someone else


----------



## IndigoClaudia

Weird question... can you vote for yourself?


----------



## Zori

mewtini said:


> well, wait. aren't we assuming 6? or are you excluding kokorico


yeah
I meant 4 ingroup + [kokoriko + Jack]


----------



## Zori

IndigoEmmy said:


> Weird question... can you vote for yourself?


probably tbh


----------



## Zori

Seshas said:


> 5 votes on Herbe
> Otter -> Kyeugh -> Emmy -> Panini -> Mewtini
> the nonvoters are Herbe/Seshas/Seri/Flora/*Ultracool*


----------



## IndigoClaudia

OK i'll see if thats true if everybody votes for me and there is absolutely no hope of me surviving.


----------



## Zori

well
if there's 2 remaining mafia and one is Flora then the lack of resistance hardly means anything


----------



## IndigoClaudia

We know for a fact flora is mafia?


----------



## kyeugh

Seshas said:


> yeah
> I meant 4 ingroup + [kokoriko + Jack]


you think mawile is ingroup?


----------



## mewtini

i thought mawile was definitely ingroup


----------



## mewtini

IndigoEmmy said:


> We know for a fact flora is mafia?


nope


----------



## mewtini

Seshas said:


> Seshas said:
> 
> 
> 
> 5 votes on Herbe
> Otter -> Kyeugh -> Emmy -> Panini -> Mewtini
> the nonvoters are Herbe/Seshas/Seri/Flora/*Ultracool*
Click to expand...

is this a vote lol


----------



## IndigoClaudia

so wait could we be mafia without knowing it?


----------



## Zori

that wasn't supposed to be a vote

also we have zero mentions of flora from flipped ingroup mafia
so that's nice ig


----------



## IndigoClaudia

IndigoEmmy said:


> so wait could we be mafia without knowing it?


----------



## Zori

daaaang
Vipera was actually info-cleared as town
Vipera was only mafia if he know outgroups flipped as non-town
Mawile quite clearly did not know that


----------



## mewtini

Seshas said:


> that wasn't supposed to be a vote
> 
> also we have zero mentions of flora from flipped ingroup mafia
> so that's nice ig


yeah. if there's one mafia between flora/seri, i think it's flora (since mawile at least said serimachi's name)


----------



## IndigoClaudia

IndigoEmmy said:


> IndigoEmmy said:
> 
> 
> 
> *so wait could we be mafia without knowing it?*
Click to expand...


----------



## Zori

Flora said:


> mewtini said:
> 
> 
> 
> @Flora are you alive
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Eifie said:
> 
> 
> 
> *amorphous blob* unordered
> Flora
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> a) amorphous blob checks out
> b) oh, lord, so folks on telegram probably know but life has decided to gift me with a cat around the same time another is dying, and that combined with a still-going work schedule has made maf (esp. a game of this magnitude) v hard to partake in, f
> 
> gonna be honest, I've been skimming at BEST so i'mma need to catch up before I can make any, like, actual reads or anythin
Click to expand...

ngl I completely forgot flora posted anything

@:Indigo no, unless the game explicitly labels stuff like that


----------



## IndigoClaudia

Oh that's a relief.


----------



## Zori

*RedneckPhoenix* (5) (Herbe, Keldeo, Vipera Magnifica, kyeugh, mewtini)
*M&F* (5) (Ottercopter, Panini, Seshas, kokorico, rari_teh)
No vote (15) (Flora, M&F, Stryke, serimachi, RedneckPhoenix, Mr. Ultracool, IndigoEmmy, Mist1422)


----------



## IndigoClaudia

Seshas said:


> IndigoEmmy,


!!! MY USERNAME HAS A COMMA AT THE END OF IT!


----------



## Zori

IndigoEmmy said:


> Ok i believe mist. *She's not mafia* but she better help us if she doesn't want to die.


daaaaaaaamnn


----------



## IndigoClaudia

What? Did that sound too suspicious?


----------



## Zori

IndigoEmmy said:


> Seshas said:
> 
> 
> 
> IndigoEmmy,
> 
> 
> 
> !!! MY USERNAME HAS A COMMA AT THE END OF IT!
Click to expand...

that's because it's part of a list of more than 2 people :P


----------



## IndigoClaudia

:wowee:


----------



## Zori

As soon as Mist comes out and claims a role important to town, Emmy clears her previously outstated Mafia read on him to directly say "He's not Mafia"


----------



## mewtini

Seshas said:


> IndigoEmmy said:
> 
> 
> 
> Ok i believe mist. *She's not mafia* but she better help us if she doesn't want to die.
> 
> 
> 
> daaaaaaaamnn
Click to expand...

LOL


----------



## IndigoClaudia

Seshas said:


> As soon as Mist comes out and claims a role important to town, Emmy clears her previously outstated Mafia read on him to directly say "He's not Mafia"


I'm a trusting person, jeez.


----------



## mewtini

feel like this is insignificant but this is the true meaning of 'big if true'


----------



## IndigoClaudia

mewtini said:


> feel like this is insignificant but this is the true meaning of 'big if true'


It's false for the record, but i think so.


----------



## kyeugh

i said this already i think but i really just want to have emmy swapped, i do not really see the utility in lynching when that's an option
like she's nowhere on my POE at all


----------



## IndigoClaudia

kyeugh said:


> i do not really see the utility in lynching


Glad we're on the same page. I don't really wanna get lynched either, even if i was mafia (Which i'm not btw)


----------



## Zori

ehhhhhhhh
I'm not as confident of this anymore tbh
ftr here's the entire progression


IndigoEmmy said:


> But yes i would definitely say that Mist is redcheck worthy.





IndigoEmmy said:


> Oh very cool. I thought you were mafia and i was planning on voting to lynch you either tommorow or today. (Mafia days)
> Now i know that you are not to be lynched.





IndigoEmmy said:


> Seshas said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mist1422 said:
> 
> 
> 
> So my trope is the Amateur Sleuth. I'm basically a backup cop, I get the ability to investigate someone's alignment each night once the main cop dies
> 
> I was informed at the start of the day that I gained this ability at the end of last night, so rari was telling the truth about their claim (which I was already 99% sure on)
> 
> 
> 
> Sorry Chem
> 1 - Due to Body Snatcher :TM: mechanics, Rari was Thanatos Gambit
> 2 - The cop died during the day, so you can't have gotten the notification at the end of the night
> 3 - Keldeo's redcheck was legitimate, I didn't make it up
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> ARE YOU SAYING MIST IS LYING
Click to expand...




IndigoEmmy said:


> *Mist1422*





IndigoEmmy said:


> *HANG THEM IN TOWN SQUARE*





IndigoEmmy said:


> *M&F*
> 
> (And also *Mist *is very very suspicious)





IndigoEmmy said:


> Ok i believe mist. She's not mafia but she better help us if she doesn't want to die.


----------



## IndigoClaudia

Oh god. *Scampers Away*


----------



## mewtini

kyeugh said:


> i said this already i think but i really just want to have emmy swapped, i do not really see the utility in lynching when that's an option
> like she's nowhere on my POE at all


me as well


----------



## kyeugh

lol HANG THEM IN TOWN SQUARE
i mean this in the best way but this reads more to me like inexperienced floundering than scummy
like if we assume indigo doesn't have a solid idea what she's doing/is easily convince/is just trying to vibe (and i think this is a reasonable assumption regardless of alignment), i think her behavior adds up as town
as scum i expect she'd have her partners reigning her in a bit


----------



## mewtini

Seshas said:


> ehhhhhhhh
> I'm not as confident of this anymore tbh
> ftr here's the entire progression


i agree that it's weird but i very honestly can't tell if it's AI or just excited!emmy

if she were mafia wouldn't she have kept pushing mist, having known that mist _wasn't_ mafia? or am i missing something ... oh. are you thinking that mafia wondered about mist being outgroup?


----------



## Butterfree

Vote count, with the shiny new update to the vote script that actually links the posts instead of just having a post number:



Spoiler: Full vote history



*mewtini* votes *Flora*
*Herbe* votes *Flora*
*Mr. Ultracool* votes *Flora*
*mewtini* unvotes
*Ottercopter* votes *Herbe*
*kyeugh* votes *Herbe*
*IndigoEmmy* votes *Herbe*
*Panini* votes *Herbe*
*mewtini* votes *Herbe*





Spoiler: Active votes



*Herbe* votes *Flora*
*IndigoEmmy* votes *Herbe*
*Mr. Ultracool* votes *Flora*
*Ottercopter* votes *Herbe*
*Panini* votes *Herbe*
*kyeugh* votes *Herbe*
*mewtini* votes *Herbe*



Vote counts:
*Herbe* (5) (IndigoEmmy, Ottercopter, Panini, kyeugh, mewtini)
*Flora* (2) (Herbe, Mr. Ultracool)
No vote (3) (Flora, serimachi, Seshas)


----------



## mewtini

would it be possible to keep the post numbers in, alongside the links? i like being able to look at how much time passes between votes :')


----------



## Zori

kyeugh said:


> lol HANG THEM IN TOWN SQUARE
> i mean this in the best way but this reads more to me like inexperienced floundering than scummy
> like if we assume indigo doesn't have a solid idea what she's doing/is easily convince/is just trying to vibe (and i think this is a reasonable assumption regardless of alignment), i think her behavior adds up as town
> as scum i expect she'd have her partners reigning her in a bit


fair
I just say emmy clearing Mist here then hopping back on in full force as soon as he came back on the table


----------



## Zori

mewtini said:


> Seshas said:
> 
> 
> 
> ehhhhhhhh
> I'm not as confident of this anymore tbh
> ftr here's the entire progression
> 
> 
> 
> i agree that it's weird but i very honestly can't tell if it's AI or just excited!emmy
> 
> if she were mafia wouldn't she have kept pushing mist, having known that mist _wasn't_ mafia? or am i missing something ... oh. are you thinking that mafia wondered about mist being outgroup?
Click to expand...

I don't see what Mafia!Emmy thinks she gains by continuing to push a seemingly confirmed Cop


----------



## mewtini

i guess i don't mean 'push' so much as i don't think w!emmy would suddenly try to keep the cop alive and go so far as to say "they're not mafia"


----------



## Zori

I mean, if the cop suddenly claims, it makes sense as mafia to stop pushing them if you think they aren't getting lynched because of their claim
nightkills are always an option to off people as well


----------



## mewtini

Seshas said:


> I just say emmy clearing Mist here then hopping back on in full force as soon as he came back on the table


oh i didn't totally read everything in detail, i see what you mean now. i'm still thinking it sounds like flailing?

either way, i don't think that there's a high chance that emmy and herbe are wolves at the same time


----------



## Butterfree

mewtini said:


> would it be possible to keep the post numbers in, alongside the links? i like being able to look at how much time passes between votes :')


Unfortunately this could only happen if for each vote post I noted down both the post number and the link, or if I added some sort of scraping thing to it that'd actually visit the link and find the post number, both of which are way more trouble than they're worth.


----------



## IndigoClaudia

mewtini said:


> excited!emmy


----------



## mewtini

Seshas said:


> I mean, if the cop suddenly claims, it makes sense as mafia to stop pushing them if you think they aren't getting lynched because of their claim
> nightkills are always an option to off people as well


reading through the thread, i think a slightly weirder/more abrupt juncture is her "mist is very very suspicious" 4261 -> her reading that mist is claiming 3p two posts later -> her backing up mist with "they're not mafia" in 4266. i also think that still seems like a confused/flailing townie and i'd (hope) that as mafia, the process you're describing would have happened in a less weird way; what she did still didn't like, sway many opinions, i'd say


----------



## IndigoClaudia

kyeugh said:


> lol HANG THEM IN TOWN SQUARE
> i mean this in the best way but this reads more to me like inexperienced floundering than scummy
> like if we assume indigo doesn't have a solid idea what she's doing/is easily convince/is just trying to vibe (and i think this is a reasonable assumption regardless of alignment), i think her behavior adds up as town
> as scum i expect she'd have her partners reigning her in a bit



yeah but what if you're my mafia buddy and you're only saying this to make me seem less supsicious!?
(that probably isn't helping my case, huh?)


----------



## mewtini




----------



## IndigoClaudia

mewtini said:


>


 Indeed, Mewtini.


----------



## IndigoClaudia

Anyway. In my defense, i was just being exited and hyper, and i was a townie :3


----------



## IndigoClaudia

IndigoEmmy said:


> Anyway. In my defense, i was just being exited and hyper, and i was a townie :3


And i still am a townie!


----------



## IndigoClaudia

so yeah also i'm really gullible so I 100% believed everything mist said, and most turned out to be true.


----------



## Herbe

Before I kick the bucket, I want to gather some Fun Quotes to laugh at with y'all :) (House showing was postponed for a couple days)
See y'all in a couple minutes


----------



## mewtini

oh yeah

w!herbe cements inno!seri given that post-boq death discussion about seri that he drove (and that rari/i were talking during)
oh god. i remember skylar saying it felt like a wolf was steering it...... F


----------



## Herbe

Eifie said:


> not that I'm playing the game, but hypothetically if I was playing the game and had to pick someone to call town right now, it'd be Herbe


ooh, first tentative townread of the game, what a badge of honor! 


Spoiler: various people trusting me, haHA






mewtini said:


> if herbe is mafia i'll have to quit the game though so Don't Disappoint Me





mewtini said:


> i probably will shame-drop out if he flips wolf


no please don't actually!! you've been awesome :> maaaan I wish I had been your Eldritch Monster, we vibe so good, it would have been an awesome team


mewtini said:


> herbe remains one of my strong townreads, but i'm very afraid that he'll betray me lol. he's pocketing me just by being cute





mewtini said:


> herbe pocketed us all by being a Good Boy and Friend for several dozen threads


I was a good boy and friend...... just not to the people I killed


Eifie said:


> because we all trust Herbe, I think





Keldeo said:


> I like Herbe's recent posting - it feels natural and genuine.








Herbe said:


> I would not be sticking my neck out this damn far if this was mafia!herbe about to lose fellowmafia!mawile tbh. There is no incentive here, it would be too big a risk


y'all bought this??????
to be fair, my win condition was VERY dependent on Mawile surviving. Wasn't lying about that - I really was desparate about it


rari_teh said:


> Wild Thought: mafia!Mawile said he targeted mafia!Herbe on n0 so that some pages later mafia!Herbe could hardclaim honeypot lovers


Rari you were just far, far too smart. I know you were speaking at this point with a red check on Mawile, but seriously. You had to die for this statement alone, lmao. Should have taken you out right then, tbh. Like, you were on the ball so damn much. Impressive...

Anyway, yeah! I had SO much fun, and I can't wait to vibe in deadchat! Mawile, how I miss you...


----------



## Herbe

To the 6 other mafia aligned players that I leave behind, good luck!!! Hopefully you'll be able to choke out a win <3


----------



## Ottercopter

Boquise said:


> View attachment 394


----------



## Ottercopter

Dammit, I was hoping that would include the picture.


----------



## Herbe

(For posterity)


----------



## mewtini

losing my fucking mind rn


Herbe said:


> To the 6 other mafia aligned players that I leave behind, good luck!!! Hopefully you'll be able to choke out a win <3


omfg


----------



## mewtini

Herbe said:


> mewtini said:
> 
> 
> 
> if herbe is mafia i'll have to quit the game though so Don't Disappoint Me
> 
> 
> 
> perish the thought! I would never dissappoint you, queen
Click to expand...

finna self-exile


----------



## Herbe

mewtini for what its worth ur sweetness about me literally made me wish i was town aligned so i wouldnt dissappoint you


----------



## mewtini

Herbe said:


> to be fair, my win condition was VERY dependent on Mawile surviving. Wasn't lying about that - I really was desparate about it


i #soulread that herbe did genuinely need mawile alive, but
i didn't consider that herbe could be mafia and still need mawile to survive
a la thanatos gambit
god damn


----------



## Herbe

my 6 mafia cronies @ me right now. hell yeah


----------



## mewtini

urgh

with EoD coming up i want to say that i understand if i end up next in line because of the herbe revelation (herbelation? herbvelation? herb-) and i guess i shouldn't care because i've lost either way but :(((((

flora/seri/emmy/seshas/herbe/skylar
seri 100% clear. then this clears skylar, leaves seshas kind of ambiguous i think, probably clears emmy?, don't know what else


----------



## Ottercopter

mewtini said:


> i #soulread that herbe did genuinely need mawile alive, but
> i didn't consider that herbe could be mafia and still need mawile to survive
> a la thanatos gambit
> god damn


It might just have been because once all the mafia members are dead, they lose. I wouldn't fuss toooooooo much over that part. Especially because, well, this is coming from the mafia. '-'

It's occuring to me that I haven't replied to Seshas's bodyswap reply yet and it's also... pretty short and straightforward? I'm worried about the bodyswapper getting targetted if they're easy pickings for the mafia (I'm looking at older posts from today and seeing that Herbe suggested a me > emmy > him swap chain, which would be really easy to track), so let's spice this up just a smidge with a game of "how many typos does Butterfree forgive?"



IndigoEmmy said:


> yeah but what if you're my mafia buddy and you're only saying this to make me seem less supsicious!?
> (that probably isn't helping my case, huh?)


It's not yuo, it's me.



Seshas said:


> I mean, if the cop suddenly claims, it makes sense as mafia to stop pushing them if you think they aren't getting lynched because of their claim
> nightkills are always an option to off people as well


It's nt you its mee.



IndigoEmmy said:


> so yeah also i'm really gullible so I 100% believed everything mist said, and most turned out to be true.


itsnutyouitsme



Ottercopter said:


> Mr. Ultracool said:
> 
> 
> 
> It's not you, it's me. Or is it?
> 
> 
> 
> Oh yah
> 
> 
> Seshas said:
> 
> 
> 
> Mafia's wincon is to reach voting parity (0v0 counts as parity)
> Town's wincon is to kill all Mafia
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> mewtini said:
> 
> 
> 
> me neither. i just accepted my fate
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Vipera Magnifica said:
> 
> 
> 
> best not to answer my question and i'll heal you tonight. that way it's like a pseudo-coinflip which one of us is protected
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It's not you, it's me.
Click to expand...

Also, this isn't a thread I'm _that_ committed to, I'm still gonna feel sad if Mewtini is a wolf. But! I'll regret not bringing it up if I die tomorrow, so! Tinfoil hat theory that Mewtini brought up being Mist's alien life partner to either 1. Create a plausible claim for why a swap wouldn't work, since she WAS quoted in a swap chain 2. Deter anyone from trying to swap with her in the future. 

Mewtini, just thought of this, if Mist's death was basically guaranteed last day phase anyway and had already claimed alien, why wait until today to claim alien buddies? Like, if you'd said it before they died, that would be a prettty concrete claim. Instead, you claimed after they were already revealed as an alien in death.


----------



## mewtini

Ottercopter said:


> Mewtini, just thought of this, if Mist's death was basically guaranteed last day phase anyway and had already claimed alien, why wait until today to claim alien buddies? Like, if you'd said it before they died, that would be a prettty concrete claim. Instead, you claimed after they were already revealed as an alien in death.


just didn't want to throw the game and i didn't want to mess it up if there was a chance that something happened last-minute or something that moved the vote off of mist. they hadn't claimed that they were alien yet so if i'd claimed my role they'd never get voted out anyway



Ottercopter said:


> Tinfoil hat theory that Mewtini brought up being Mist's alien life partner to either 1. Create a plausible claim for why a swap wouldn't work, since she WAS quoted in a swap chain 2. Deter anyone from trying to swap with her in the future.


lol this is fair. i don't know why i would've done this when it seems like townies can also cause swaps to fail, though, at least aiui. i don't have proof of anything beyond tropes (mine being sinister minister/religion of evil and mist's alien-thing being eldritch abomination)


----------



## mewtini

mewtini said:


> they hadn't claimed that they were alien yet


oh
they did. sorry. i ... honestly didn't see it until i went through their post history just now :| welp.


----------



## mewtini

yeah i have nothing to say in my defense there, i wasn't really thinking about roleclaiming at all until the moment i actually did it


----------



## Ottercopter

Oh, goddammit, I forgot to quote the original. Trying this again. Sorry it takes up so much space. '-'


Seshas said:


> Ottercopter said:
> 
> 
> 
> Well, is there anyone or anything that DOES stand out to you?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> IndigoEmmy said:
> 
> 
> 
> No one seems suspicious to me atm
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It's not you, it's me.
Click to expand...




IndigoEmmy said:


> yeah but what if you're my mafia buddy and you're only saying this to make me seem less supsicious!?
> (that probably isn't helping my case, huh?)


It's not yuo, it's me.



Seshas said:


> I mean, if the cop suddenly claims, it makes sense as mafia to stop pushing them if you think they aren't getting lynched because of their claim
> nightkills are always an option to off people as well


It's nt you its mee.



IndigoEmmy said:


> so yeah also i'm really gullible so I 100% believed everything mist said, and most turned out to be true.


itsnutyouitsme



Seshas said:


> if Emmy is Mafia than Flora/Herbe are the same alignment probably


Here, let's do another for posterity and keep it an even 2-2. Its notyou its me.


----------



## Herbe

Spoiler: i'm patrick


----------



## mewtini

gg herbe tbh


----------



## Ottercopter

Herbe said:


> Spoiler: i'm patrick


Damn, what would you have done if you'd made it to the end of the game and couldn't post all these dank memes? ;-;


----------



## Herbe

mewtini said:


> gg herbe tbh


gg!


Ottercopter said:


> Damn, what would you have done if you'd made it to the end of the game and couldn't post all these dank memes? ;-;


I would have saved most for postgame I imagine


----------



## Herbe

One last meme for the road. 
Here's a BIG CLUE to the identity of the other 6 mafia aligned players (everyone on TCoD is mafia aligned except you)






Good luck everyone!


----------



## Butterfree

*Herbe* begins cackling and twirling his mustache before they've even fully settled on lynching him, ready to go down with a bang. There are emotional goodbyes, declarations of fealty, and dank memes.

He goes to the gallows leaving behind a cryptic videotape and a fluttering business card, clearly revealing him as an important member of the dastardly mafia.

Another one down. The villagers can't lose hope yet. Perhaps, if they continue like this, they can do it.

*Herbe is dead. He was mafia.

Please send in your night actions. The night will end on May 15th, 0:00 UTC (also known as GMT or Greenwich Mean Time, except do you know what country is GMT year-round where Greenwich isn't? ICELAND).*

Final vote count:
*Herbe* (5) (IndigoEmmy, Ottercopter, Panini, kyeugh, mewtini)
*Flora* (2) (Herbe, Mr. Ultracool)
No vote (3) (Flora, serimachi, Seshas)



Spoiler: Full vote history



*mewtini* votes *Flora*
*Herbe* votes *Flora*
*Mr. Ultracool* votes *Flora*
*mewtini* unvotes
*Ottercopter* votes *Herbe*
*kyeugh* votes *Herbe*
*IndigoEmmy* votes *Herbe*
*Panini* votes *Herbe*
*mewtini* votes *Herbe*





Spoiler: Active votes



*Herbe* votes *Flora*
*IndigoEmmy* votes *Herbe*
*Mr. Ultracool* votes *Flora*
*Ottercopter* votes *Herbe*
*Panini* votes *Herbe*
*kyeugh* votes *Herbe*
*mewtini* votes *Herbe*


----------



## Butterfree

The villagers are relatively optimistic as they gather in the morning, heartened by the successful lynch yesterday.

Unfortunately, the sad, morbid discovery of *Mr. Ultracool* dead with a frozen stare fixed on his face outside the local bar dampens the mood. Perhaps he, like Negrek, was simply Too Cool To Live.

*Mr. Ultracool is dead. He was not mafia.

You have 72 hours to discuss. The day will end on May 18th, 0:00 UTC (UNIVERSE TIME).*



Spoiler: Pings



@Negrek
@Keldeo
@JackPK
@Flora
@I liek Squirtles
@kyeugh
@Ottercopter
@M&F
@Mist1422
@Eifie
@RedneckPhoenix
@Panini
@kokorico
@Boquise
@Seshas
@Stryke
@mewtini
@Mr. Ultracool
@IndigoEmmy
@rari_teh
@Mawile
@Odie_Pie
@serimachi
@Herbe
@Vipera Magnifica


----------



## Zori

*Night 7 Diary*

_May 12, 7:47 PM - _Well crap
So uhh
Why you do this to me Herbe. D:
P-Edit: I watched Groove Battle
It was funny but ultimately uninformative
there was someone who posted random videos saying they were softing their mafia team
someone found 2 softs and they were both correct

-----

_May 13, 2:22 PM _- On D2, Herbe flopped between Stryke and Odie Pie, but originally, their vote was on Seri. I still think that Seri is always town here. [c.f. Posts 1 and 2 that I have bookmarked but can't put in here because thread locked]
I still don't like Indigo, but w/e
Locking in Kyeugh as town because I just realized there could be other reasons the swap failed
such as Otter being roleblocked in the day (RNP mentioned his ability did this)

Otter/Panini/Ultracool/Mewtini/kyeugh/Seri is my townbloc (+3p)
leaving 2 mafia in Flora/Emmy
so
yeah
If I had to remove anyone from my townbloc it would probably be Ultracool because of his lack of extreme activity


----------



## Zori

a few things:
first: How do you find your bookmarks again lol
second: I think today is the day where we make a swap with Flora/Seri


----------



## Ottercopter

Awww.... That's a pretty weird target, though, huh? It's the first one in a while I can't see an explicit rationale for. It makes me wonder if someone new just got the killing power from Herbe and wasn't quite as sure of who to kill. Or if they want us to think that, hmm.

Still thinking of what I wanna say about last night's body swap and if there's any benefit to obscuring it or not. We could all (Me, Seshas, Emmy) just start our own independent chains and end them with whoever?

Oh, i did FINALLY go back at look at... a bit of the thread, at least. Back when the original Mawile train started on day 2 (roleclaim here)! Kyeugh being mistrustful when we all moved to Odie_Pie has swayed me to trust her a lot more, at least.


----------



## Zori

*IndigoEmmy*

Since obviously there is a Mafia not in Flora/Seri
It's mechanically confirmed not Otter
I trust Panini/mewtini/kyeugh
I stated my reasons on Seri


----------



## Zori

If I'm misclearing someone it's Panini probably


----------



## Ottercopter

Seshas said:


> If I'm misclearing someone it's Panini probably


What's wrong with Panini being mech cleared by Keldeo? (Looking for it right now to verify)


----------



## kyeugh

why did i think the day started tomorrow


----------



## Zori

Basically:
There are 8 people alive:
Ottercopter
Mewtini
Kyeugh
Panini
Flora
Serimachi
Seshas
IndigoEmmy

Because there was a kill last night, we know there


----------



## Zori

accidentaly hit submit

oops


----------



## kyeugh

Seshas said:


> second: I think today is the day where we make a swap with Flora/Seri


not emmy?  or did we do that already
also are you saying you think flora/emmy are the remaining scum


----------



## Zori

Basically:
There are 8 people alive:
Ottercopter
Mewtini
Kyeugh
Panini
Flora
Serimachi
Seshas
IndigoEmmy

Because there was a kill last night, we know there's a Mafia outside of those two.

Ottercopter is mechanically confirmed. Panini got greenchecked. (Unless you think they're some sort of Mafia that appears as Town)
Mewtini and Kyeugh are fairly obvious town.

This means that there is 1 Mafia in:
Seshas
IndigoEmmy


----------



## Zori

*by those two, I meant Flora+Seri


----------



## Zori

This is why I think that Emmy is mechanically the correct lynch.
We can lynch Flora afterwards if the game isn't over.


----------



## Zori

Seshas said:


> This is why I think that Emmy is mechanically the correct lynch.
> We can lynch Flora afterwards if the game isn't over.


*if Emmy flips Mafia and the game isn't over.
If Emmy flips town, then I'm misclearing someone hard


----------



## Zori

Also
we're almost a 5000 posts!
far longer than any other mafia game on this site I think :P


----------



## mewtini

good morning y'all. a little late to the party, i'm genuinely kind of irl stressed out after the end of last phase ;(

_Thoughts, i guess:_
- i think seri is definitely locktown, yeah - between the voting stuff seshas talked about and that h*rbe made a super long push on them in early game (as a convenient inactive lynch, i think, and then some). 

- as far as flora goes i think they have a pretty fair chance at being mafia since seri/flora normally get mentioned together by virtue of being similarly inactive (especially in the odie days, when it was like "odie is 100% inactive, seri/flora are 95% inactive") and yet herbe/mf/mawile have all kept exceptionally quiet about flora in almost every way, where (at least i) everyone else seemed to associate them with each other?

- in re: emmy, idk what we'll get out of reading her post history (which i'll probably go do anyway, but) since i feel like almost everything she's said could be construed as AI or NAI depending on how you choose to look at it, but from a probability standpoint it seems to be pointing towards her when we look at those who aren't 100% cleared? ...

seshas/emmy/flora/seri/skylar; seri is cleared as i said above, skylar pushed for the lynch, so it comes down to seshas/emmy/flora. i also need to read through herbe's posts but i'm tinfoil-hat worried, emphasis on the tinfoil, since he put some effort into bolstering seshas' status yesterDay (but given my relationship with herbe i'm now also afraid of sussing anyone else for what i fell victim to, haha....)

sidenote - i'm really wtf about the nkill tbh? otter's take on it is interesting


----------



## kyeugh

post 5k


----------



## Ottercopter

Were you just holding your finger over the "post reply" button until someone made 4,999?


----------



## mewtini

mewtini said:


> seshas/emmy/flora/seri/skylar; seri is cleared as i said above, skylar pushed for the lynch, so it comes down to seshas/emmy/flora. i also need to read through herbe's posts but i'm tinfoil-hat worried, emphasis on the tinfoil, since he put some effort into bolstering seshas' status yesterDay (but given my relationship with herbe i'm now also afraid of sussing anyone else for what i fell victim to, haha....)


obviously this is assuming that stuff like panini's clear holds 100% and that the clears we've talked about are to be Trusted. also, since ultracool was town, i'm even more inclined to say otter is locktown? it seems to indicate that the bodyswap ring is not, in fact, a malevolent cult once and for all :p

@.seshas but also @everyone are we thinking that there are something like two wolves left?


----------



## mewtini

also for old times' sake.

keldeoooo!


----------



## Zori

mewtini said:


> mewtini said:
> 
> 
> 
> seshas/emmy/flora/seri/skylar; seri is cleared as i said above, skylar pushed for the lynch, so it comes down to seshas/emmy/flora. i also need to read through herbe's posts but i'm tinfoil-hat worried, emphasis on the tinfoil, since he put some effort into bolstering seshas' status yesterDay (but given my relationship with herbe i'm now also afraid of sussing anyone else for what i fell victim to, haha....)
> 
> 
> 
> obviously this is assuming that stuff like panini's clear holds 100% and that the clears we've talked about are to be Trusted. also, since ultracool was town, i'm even more inclined to say otter is locktown? it seems to indicate that the bodyswap ring is not, in fact, a malevolent cult once and for all :p
> 
> @.seshas but also @everyone are we thinking that there are something like two wolves left?
Click to expand...

two wolves is my baseline assumption for a game of this size
as I stated, my only worry is about Panini being a mafia who appears as not mafia to cops


----------



## Ottercopter

mewtini said:


> good morning y'all. a little late to the party, i'm genuinely kind of irl stressed out after the end of last phase ;(


It's okay, it's your first game in a long time! Mafia has a steep learning curve and a lot of us have been wrong about things or done regretful things by mistake! Like, I misunderstood my role PM so badly that it got a doctor killed on day 1! We're all human. 'n'


----------



## kyeugh

i'm not really sure i feel an emmy lynch tbh.  i just don't... really see her being scum, i guess?  i don't think i understand why people suspect her.  i don't really have a better suggestion though.


----------



## Zori

kyeugh said:


> i'm not really sure i feel an emmy lynch tbh.  i just don't... really see her being scum, i guess?  i don't think i understand why people suspect her.  i don't really have a better suggestion though.


I mean
at this point we've narrowed it down to a mafia between her and me


----------



## kyeugh

oh.  i didn't realize we'd done that.  uhhh, tbh, i kind of would rather it be you?  sorry.  i feel like emmy's MI claim was more concretely confirmed than yours, so if i must pick between one of you two, it'd probably be you. i don't get particularly scummy vibes from you though...


----------



## mewtini

Ottercopter said:


> It's okay, it's your first game in a long time! Mafia has a steep learning curve and a lot of us have been wrong about things or done regretful things by mistake! Like, I misunderstood my role PM so badly that it got a doctor killed on day 1! We're all human. 'n'


this is really nice of you tbh. thanks :')



Seshas said:


> two wolves is my baseline assumption for a game of this size
> as I stated, my only worry is about Panini being a mafia who appears as not mafia to cops


cool. gotcha. i'm not going to lie i trust panini at this point, mostly because she didn't jump on me at EoD yesterday (which i think would have been easy to do)



kyeugh said:


> i'm not really sure i feel an emmy lynch tbh. i just don't... really see her being scum, i guess? i don't think i understand why people suspect her. i don't really have a better suggestion though.


i don't either, really. i don't think i _suspect _her either so much as i see what seshas' mechanical argument means, and if we didn't lynch emmy, i thiiink it would be between flora/seshas? which also feels not comfy to me. i don't suspect her/as i said earlier i think literally everything she's said could be NAI or AI but i don't want to lynch flora and i trust seshas more than i trust emmy


----------



## mewtini

on the other hand, as i also think i said a bit ago, herbe put work into supporting seshas as town, and emmy _did_ vote on herbe while i don't think seshas voted for anyone

so take that as you will


----------



## kyeugh

mewtini said:


> i don't either, really. i don't think i _suspect _her either so much as i see what seshas' mechanical argument means, and if we didn't lynch emmy, i thiiink it would be between flora/seshas? which also feels not comfy to me. i don't suspect her/as i said earlier i think literally everything she's said could be NAI or AI but i don't want to lynch flora and i trust seshas more than i trust emmy


why don't you want to vote for flora again?



mewtini said:


> on the other hand, as i also think i said a bit ago, herbe put work into supporting seshas as town, and emmy _did_ vote on herbe while i don't think seshas voted for anyone
> 
> so take that as you will


hmmmmmmmm...


----------



## mewtini

kyeugh said:


> why don't you want to vote for flora again?


i'm ok with it, it's just that you swayed me against inactive lynch. i'd do it though. i think flora has over a 50% chance of being maf


----------



## mewtini

i should probably just outwardly ask actually -

@.seshas why no vote yesterDay?


----------



## kyeugh

hmmm.  i'm not really opposed to the idea of lynching inactives for any reason, i just think that we're getting a bit down to the wire to be lynching inactives _just_ because they're inactive. if you think there's good odds they're scum for one reason or another, i guess they're just as good a vote as any?


----------



## mewtini

yeah, tbqh i was just sheeping you on that (since i know we veered away from an inactive lynch vote yesterday). i can jam with that then - i feel like we've all agreed there's one between flora/seri and i feel like there's no way serimachi is given how everything's gone

OH i just remembered. the other thing in seshas' favor though is that seshas has been super vocal about not wanting a seri lynch. that was what tipped me towards emmy between the two of them


----------



## Zori

mewtini said:


> i should probably just outwardly ask actually -
> 
> @.seshas why no vote yesterDay?


Because I trusted Herbe 



kyeugh said:


> hmmm.  i'm not really opposed to the idea of lynching inactives for any reason, i just think that we're getting a bit down to the wire to be lynching inactives _just_ because they're inactive. if you think there's good odds they're scum for one reason or another, i guess they're just as good a vote as any?


I mean
the fact that there was a kill shows that there is at least one mafia that's not them


----------



## kyeugh

Seshas said:


> I mean
> the fact that there was a kill shows that there is at least one mafia that's not them


i don't disagree with this but i'm having trouble working out what it has to do with my post haha


----------



## Zori

If for some reason there are only 4 mafia or if the last mafia is deep or something we don't want to get jebaited and lynch the inactives for no reason
If Emmy flips Mafia and there's no kill we have the green light to get Flora


----------



## mewtini

Seshas said:


> Because I trusted Herbe


depresso mode...............

uh. this might be a stupid question but can we talk about/verify that there's no way emmy's MI claim wasn't fabricated, given that it _could_ have theoretically been lifted from tvt 1? did it only come before there was reason to believe that the doctor drama existed?

i'm gonna go ahead and park on *flora* for now


----------



## mewtini

i don't really remember the timeline

so that might have been a dumber q than i'm realizing rn. but


----------



## Zori

iirc Emmy claimed D1
I think if they are Mafia then either they got the info in their rolecard (Subverted Trope) or another Mafia told them about it


----------



## mewtini

Seshas said:


> another Mafia told them about it


this is pretty much what i was wondering about

d1 sounds right though, ty. guess there's not much to be figured out from that then


----------



## kyeugh

Seshas said:


> If for some reason there are only 4 mafia or if the last mafia is deep or something we don't want to get jebaited and lynch the inactives for no reason
> If Emmy flips Mafia and there's no kill we have the green light to get Flora


 ahhh okay.  makes sense.


mewtini said:


> uh. this might be a stupid question but can we talk about/verify that there's no way emmy's MI claim wasn't fabricated, given that it _could_ have theoretically been lifted from tvt 1? did it only come before there was reason to believe that the doctor drama existed?


i don't think it's impossible, i guess...  i can't be fucked looking right now but i'm pretty sure the claim pre-dated anything that would confirm or suggest the presence of opposing magic/nanotech doctors in this game, yeah.  if she lifted the idea from the last game with scummy intentions at that point i believe it still would have been a Big Assumption that it would hold true in this game

anyway if we are picking between emmy and seshas here i'm gonna go *seshas* tbh


----------



## mewtini

kyeugh said:


> it still would have been a Big Assumption that it would hold true in this game


yeah i didn't remember that she claimed that early, i was wondering if it was possible that they were waiting to see if it looked like it could be the case and then had her claim it. ty


----------



## Ottercopter

Seshas said:


> two wolves is my baseline assumption for a game of this size
> as I stated, my only worry is about Panini being a mafia who appears as not mafia to cops


If we add Jack/the evil doctor and Mist to that, we'd have seven  non-town roles. Mewtini, if she's telling the truth, would make that eight out of 25? I don't know where I'm going with this, just thinking.

Ugh, Flora mafia would kind of explain Mr. Ultracool's death as someone succeeding Herbe's killing abilities and not paying enough attention to the game to pick a target that contributed more or had a role worth offing more. Which brings me back to a loop of "What if Mr. Ultracool's murder was a 4D chess play to dissuade suspicion against the more attentive players?" ...And that's not really helpful either because you could go "WHAT IF 4D CHESS?!" for just about anything.

I do recall IE saying things that suggested she was skipping/forgetting details like who got mech cleared, but I'm with Kyeugh in that I don't really suspect her anyway. I still stand by my point that "nanobot and magic doctors" shouldn't be a Mafia MI hint because it doesn't benefit them at all. Whereas for the town, it could help explain or prevent healer clashes, the latter of which was a thing we definitely took the time to do.


----------



## Zori

Re: 4D Chess


----------



## mewtini

Ottercopter said:


> If we add Jack/the evil doctor and Mist to that, we'd have seven non-town roles. Mewtini, if she's telling the truth, would make that eight out of 25? I don't know where I'm going with this, just thinking.


jack as mafia doctor + me/mist + herbe/mawile/mf + kokorico, yeah. i think the game having 1/3rd non-town sounds fine maybe?



Ottercopter said:


> Ugh, Flora mafia would kind of explain Mr. Ultracool's death


this is true but also assumes that flora is the more active mafia, or the _only_ mafia? well ... idk how killing power inheritance would work. i'm ignoring the 4d chess play even though i'm also tempted to start big brain theorizing, but for now i'm just going to pretend that there's nothing to be found by thinking about _who_ would kill ultracool



Ottercopter said:


> I still stand by my point that "nanobot and magic doctors" shouldn't be a Mafia MI hint because it doesn't benefit them at all.


yeah, i agree ... and i kinda doubt the subverted trope theory. i was totally just trying to figure out if it was likely enough that she/the mafia threw together that claim that we should treat it as a real possibility or not. seems to be a dead end though. 

i'm kinda trying to weigh 
"emmy voting herbe" + "herbe trying to substantiate town!seshas" + "emmy is probably just town MI" 
against 
"seshas protecting almost-definitely-inno!seri" + "i like and trust seshas' posts" + "seshas trusts my claim uwu" 

and getting myself really confused


----------



## mewtini

ok in re: the first chunk of the post i thought otter was /addressing/ me and i now see that was not the case


----------



## Ottercopter

Oh right yeah I forgot Koko, good call


----------



## Zori

Spoiler: Panini don't open this



This is actually really easy, because Ottercopter swapped roles with me


----------



## Ottercopter

Oh. Yeah, well, now that's out in the open. Can verify. Finally, I'm free of my burdens! I'm sorry for suspecting you, Seshas.


----------



## Zori

Shut
Panini is not allowed to know


----------



## Ottercopter

God, I don't know if it was even worth it, but trying to think of good swaps and trying to keep the mechanics obscured was kinda stressful, heehee.


----------



## Zori

Ottercopter said:


> Oh. Yeah, well, now that's out in the open. Can verify. Finally, I'm free of my burdens! I'm sorry for suspecting you, Seshas.





Spoiler: Panini don't open this either



It's fine
I think I'll pass it on to Seri today, since I don't want to screw myself over by swapping with Mafia!Flora :P


----------



## mewtini

so seshas is conf town?

otter what are your Voting Thoughts™ in this case


----------



## Zori

We must keep this secret from Panini
It is imperative

obviously


----------



## mewtini

i am missing something aren't i


----------



## Zori

Technically this started because Panini was the only one who didn't react yet


----------



## kyeugh

this is confusing tbh
is ottercopter vouching for you as town then
i’ll change my vote if so i guess


----------



## Ottercopter

Yeah, I got the "The mafia have someone pulling the strings behind the curtain" tidbit too. I doubt we'll get answers until the game ends, but I wonder if we've managed to lynch whoever that is yet or what that meant. Seshas is cleared, I'm the informant now and Seshas is our body swapper.


----------



## mewtini

oh sick tbh. glad i don't have to get fucked over by seshas too!


----------



## kyeugh

i guess that makes *indigoemmy* the move?


----------



## Zori

yee


----------



## mewtini

*indigoemmy* 

... + reaction test time ig?


----------



## mewtini

Seshas said:


> Spoiler: Panini don't open this either
> 
> 
> 
> It's fine
> I think I'll pass it on to Seri today, since I don't want to screw myself over by swapping with Mafia!Flora :P


would panini be a viable swaptest candidate? or i guess maybe that could happen later


----------



## mewtini

since panini is probably just town


----------



## Ottercopter

I know Panini doesn't really post much, but I'd imagine they at least still perform night actions, yeah? So long as we trust Keldeo's inspection (I do!), we'd be better off checking someone we're unsure of or getting a new power for the town. A Panini swap won't accomplish much.

Mewtini, I know you asked me for vote thoughts a bit ago, still thinking. At the least, I still don't really like the idea of an IE lynch. Kyeugh, I'm unsure of why you've changed your mind in particular? Although I do recognize that it's very early on in the day phase and there's time to change.


----------



## mewtini

Ottercopter said:


> So long as we trust Keldeo's inspection (I do!), we'd be better off checking someone we're unsure of or getting a new power for the town. A Panini swap won't accomplish much.


i guess i was thinking about seshas' concern about panini and paranoia-theorizing based off of that, in the event we still want to swap in case the likely flora lynch tomorrow goes wrong

i think skylar and i were both unsure of seshas versus emmy. at least for me, seshas being confirmed town is what swayed me


----------



## kyeugh

Ottercopter said:


> Kyeugh, I'm unsure of why you've changed your mind in particular?


seshas has reasoned out that there’s one scum between her and emmy; you claim that seshas is town, so unless BOTH of you are scum somehow, it must be emmy.

i can’t remember why there’s one wolf in seshas/emmy but it made sense to me when i read it. :d


----------



## mewtini

kyeugh said:


> i can’t remember why there’s one wolf in seshas/emmy but it made sense to me when i read it. :d


aiui, if there are two wolves ... there's one out of flora/seri, and then we pick one out of you/emmy/seshas. and you're cleared, so it's emmy/seshas


----------



## Zori

In theory it could have been possible that me and emmy are both mafia but that's kind of dumb


----------



## mewtini

mewtini said:


> aiui, if there are two wolves ... there's one out of flora/seri, and then we pick one out of you/emmy/seshas. and you're cleared, so it's emmy/seshas


well ... actually, this is just the list of people who aren't cleared, so ... i guess i could be added to this if you want.

forgot to mention for completeness' sake that seri is probably town so it's 
flora/seri -> flora 
+ skylar/emmy/seshas -> emmy/seshas -> emmy


----------



## Panini

Seshas said:


> Spoiler: Panini don't open this
> 
> 
> 
> This is actually really easy, because Ottercopter swapped roles with me


----------



## Panini

Tbh I’m not sure how legit you were being about me not seeing that but I’m going to be 100% straight with you and say I absolutely opened the first one as I was reading along because I thought you were just memeing
If it makes you feel any better Otter said about as much and I probably would have asked for those results before being firm about how I felt about you/seri vs flora/emmy. Even if you did make some sort of a read based on if I had reacted sans knowing you’re cleared by otter I'd find that process questionable? Due to relying on scout’s honour that I didn’t read it?
But sorry anyway :v

It does makes sense to me if the point if the point we're at is just:
me/kyeugh/mewt/Otter/Seshas town
Flora or Seri /*IndigoEmmy* POE by night kill activity

Just cover all the bases though, is it atypical to have the night kill be compulsive (i.e. if no one submits it, for it to be randomised among non-mafia players) if it’s come up before in the site meta?

Even if the answer is yes, I suppose that wouldn't change much apart from possibly opening up Flora/Seri as well as the already proposed Emmy teams (since the mafia team doesn’t necessarily have to be active in order in order to sub the NK, unless I’m misunderstanding the hard reason people have said this isn’t a team) and supposedly if it’s just 2 maf left we’d have the extra turn to deal with that possibility + role swapper action to figure that out

I do acknowledge mewtini's/Seshas' thing about Herbe like, early pushing seri since he sat his vote there twice on that one day and he seemed comfortable in using it as like a crutch vote but since it's not like it ended up there I feel like I'm just not bridging the gap into calling that like a lock on town!Seri so much as it is just a generally a much stronger positive look than we have on flora at this point


----------



## Panini

wait 
double negatives 
I meant to say if the answer is no, it's not atypical --> i.e. it's typical to be randomised when no one submits it --> possible flora/seri
yes, it is atypical --> i.e. it has to be submitted in order to happen --> there's an active wolf in team for sure and by POE probably Emmy

It seems more likely that Ultracool just got got last night because he was lock clear by role than because of random pick though really


----------



## Butterfree

I can state for the record that if the mafia completely failed to submit a night action I would randomize it, rather than have the game just pointlessly go on with no nightkills.


----------



## IndigoClaudia

guys! Stop voting for me. I'm not good enough to be one of the last known mafia!!!!


----------



## IndigoClaudia

I've never played mafia before! And i had actual MI info.


----------



## IndigoClaudia

ok i caught up completely.


----------



## IndigoClaudia

Seshas said:


> If Emmy flips town, then I'm misclearing someone hard



I AM TOWN THIS IS VERY BAD FOR THE TOWN WE NEED TO VOTE FOR SOMEONE WHO MIGHT ACTUALLY BE MAFIA.

*Flora*


----------



## Ottercopter

kyeugh said:


> hmmm.  i'm not really opposed to the idea of lynching inactives for any reason, i just think that we're getting a bit down to the wire to be lynching inactives _just_ because they're inactive. if you think there's good odds they're scum for one reason or another, i guess they're just as good a vote as any?


I mean
the fact that there was a kill shows that there is at least one mafia that's not them
[/QUOTE]


Butterfree said:


> I can state for the record that if the mafia completely failed to submit a night action I would randomize it, rather than have the game just pointlessly go on with no nightkills.


I could buy Mr. Ultracool as a randomized death pretty easily. The ONLY benefit I could see to killing him specifically is that he was a confirmed townie, and there were definitely better targets for that (Like Panini, whose role should probably stay unknown for the rest of the game).




Seshas said:


> kyeugh said:
> 
> 
> 
> i'm not really sure i feel an emmy lynch tbh.  i just don't... really see her being scum, i guess?  i don't think i understand why people suspect her.  i don't really have a better suggestion though.
> 
> 
> 
> I mean
> at this point we've narrowed it down to a mafia between her and me
Click to expand...

Also, I'm sorry. I know it's depressing and I'm not trying to make anyone feel bad, but I kinda can't avoid bringing it up.



Seshas said:


> Because I trusted Herbe


Just because Seshas is trustworthy doesn't mean they're right.


----------



## Ottercopter

Oh god that post really screwed up. I tried to hit preview, sorry. The first non-quote in that post is actually a quote from Seshas, I seem to have cut that part off at some point while I was trying to organize all the stuff I clipped. My words start at "I could buy"


----------



## Zori

@.Panini
The spoilers were mostly a joke


----------



## Zori

I mean, fair
I thought that noone submitting a kill meant no kill at the time
This makes Flora a possible lynch now


----------



## IndigoClaudia

i am saved?


----------



## IndigoClaudia

Guys don't lynch me. You'll be wasting a lynch.


----------



## Ottercopter

Seshas said:


> I mean, fair
> I thought that noone submitting a kill meant no kill at the time
> This makes Flora a possible lynch now


It's okay, I don't think any of us expected that.


----------



## IndigoClaudia

Oh yeah. If i were mafia i'd try and kill Seshas. So... that's suspicious so my vote still remains as Flora.


----------



## Zori

@Butterfree 
Would Mafia members be able to puppet night actions? (submit actions for other members)


----------



## IndigoClaudia

Listen, even if i were mafia i would kill you Seshas. Because not only would you vote to lynch me, you also seem to be leading people. I'm not mafia, hence why Mr Ultracool died.


----------



## IndigoClaudia

Flora is our best bet, because it's probably randomized. Basically it's murder roulette which is equally as scary.


----------



## Zori

IndigoEmmy said:


> Listen, even if i were mafia i would kill you Seshas. Because not only would you vote to lynch me, you also seem to be leading people. I'm not mafia, hence why Mr Ultracool died.


It would be funny if noone noticed that everyone was basically confirmed except for you/me/flora
tbh


----------



## Zori

IndigoEmmy said:


> Flora is our best bet, because it's probably randomized. Basically it's murder roulette which is equally as scary.


Is a murder roulette really more scary than the murders being chosen by someone who doesn't like you tho


----------



## IndigoClaudia

Yep. It is.


----------



## IndigoClaudia

To elaborate, the Mafia wouldn't kill me because i'm just a townie, and clearly people think i'm mafia so i'm basically their shield for a day.


----------



## Zori

To be clear
ottercopter was the optimal kill choice because she was confirmed town and vocal


----------



## IndigoClaudia

I'll go tell that to my mafia buddies.


----------



## Zori

joke's on you you only have one and they haven't been online since D1


----------



## IndigoClaudia

IndigoEmmy said:


> I'll go tell that to my mafia buddies.


for the record i'm not actually mafia.


----------



## Zori

some deja vu here

*Flora*


----------



## IndigoClaudia

But if there are 2 mafia left. And i'm not mafia. Who is it?


----------



## Zori

IndigoEmmy said:


> But if there are 2 mafia left. And i'm not mafia. Who is it?


Two options:
1) there's actually only 1 mafia left, given the sheer quantity of outgroups and 3p's
2) the other mafia is either you, or in deep (in the townbloc)


----------



## IndigoClaudia

I'd be a bit less random then that if i were mafia.


----------



## IndigoClaudia

What i'm saying is. You can trust me because i'm not mafia.


----------



## Zori

IndigoEmmy said:


> I'd be a bit less random then that if i were mafia.


you have picked
...
Option 1!


----------



## Zori

fwiw it's completetly possible that there are some 3p's/outgroups that died and flipped as not mafia
like
Jack + Bosquie


----------



## IndigoClaudia

If option 1 means i don't get hanged then that's definitely my preferred option.


----------



## IndigoClaudia

this would be a good day to skip by and hang Flora.


----------



## IndigoClaudia

if only 

	
	
		
		
	


	




 were here.


----------



## Zori

ooooooooo!


----------



## IndigoClaudia




----------



## IndigoClaudia

I wish i could be a cop so i could Investigate Flora.


----------



## IndigoClaudia

DO WE HAVE ANY COPS AROUND HERE?


----------



## Zori

IndigoEmmy said:


> DO WE HAVE ANY COPS AROUND HERE?





IndigoEmmy said:


> View attachment 547


----------



## IndigoClaudia

We have a dead cop but that doesn't help much B(


----------



## IndigoClaudia

Do you think the Mafia collects the spleens of their victims?


----------



## Ottercopter

Well, we have... whatever mystery role we're gonna try and get from Serimachi. Unless Seshas swaps with you or someone else now. (I'm free, woohoo!)

That's probably not a cop, but it might be something useful.


----------



## IndigoClaudia

CONSPIRACY THEORY

The only reason the mafia kills people is to get their spleens so they can sell the spleens to get rich. Spleens are worth a lot of money!


----------



## Zori

serimachi said:


> Now don't get me wrong, it _is_ hilarious. But could it be something more..?


It's not you, it's me.


----------



## IndigoClaudia

Seshas said:


> serimachi said:
> 
> 
> 
> Now don't get me wrong, it _is_ hilarious. But could it be something more..?
> 
> 
> 
> It's not you, it's me.
Click to expand...

It's not you, it's me.


----------



## Butterfree

Seshas said:


> @Butterfree
> Would Mafia members be able to puppet night actions? (submit actions for other members)


Any mafia member can submit a night action, but the mafia boss (who is always the one who performs the kill) will override any others.


----------



## IndigoClaudia

@Butterfree is there any chance we could shorten this day, that is assuming some others want to.


----------



## Ottercopter

No, day skipping isn't a thing.


----------



## IndigoClaudia

*Throws Chair in anger*


----------



## mewtini

Panini said:


> I do acknowledge mewtini's/Seshas' thing about Herbe like, early pushing seri since he sat his vote there twice on that one day and he seemed comfortable in using it as like a crutch vote but since it's not like it ended up there


i was actually not talking about just his _vote_; he spent like, a dozen posts in d2 or somewhere around there trying to set serimachi up as the optimal lynch. it was a concerted thing


IndigoEmmy said:


> Flora is our best bet, because it's probably randomized. Basically it's murder roulette which is equally as scary.


we don't know if it's randomized though right? there's a chance it is, or there's a chance someone who just didn't know what to do got KP. idk ... are we all switching votes then?


IndigoEmmy said:


> @Butterfree is there any chance we could shorten this day, that is assuming some others want to.


i don't like this


----------



## mewtini

mewtini said:


> it was a concerted thing


it's possible that this was like galaxy brain distancing but ... i do not get that vibe tbh. it was distinct from "i am casting doubt on my teammate" and closer to actually trying to push everyone else into that lynch. :-/


----------



## IndigoClaudia

mewtini said:


> i don't like this


wait why?


----------



## mewtini

it feels like you're just trying to move things along quickly now that there's some level of suspicion/votes on you

i'll move off later maybe though. i just don't feel great


----------



## IndigoClaudia

mewtini said:


> it feels like you're just trying to move things along quickly now that there's some level of suspicion/votes on you
> 
> i'll move off later maybe though. i just don't feel great


In hindsight that was suspicious, but it was actually me just being bored and wanting to know if that was flora or not.


----------



## mewtini

ok i only just internalized what the randomized kill means. *flora*


----------



## kyeugh

mewtini said:


> ok i only just internalized what the randomized kill means. *flora*


what does it mean


----------



## IndigoClaudia

It's random. Anybody could die.


----------



## kyeugh




----------



## IndigoClaudia

kyeugh said:


> View attachment 548


Thats... a cursed image!


----------



## mewtini

kyeugh said:


> mewtini said:
> 
> 
> 
> ok i only just internalized what the randomized kill means. *flora*
> 
> 
> 
> what does it mean
Click to expand...

our logic was that the existence of a kill meant someone who wasn't flora/seri had to be submitting their night actions. which was the reason to go for emmy over flora, as well as the reason to think that it's possible that - if the scumteam is only one person - it's just emmy. randomized kill means it doesn't matter quite as much to go for the "active" mafia over the inactive, since a kill happens either way

i can be convinced to go back on emmy and i was kind of tempted to stay there for pressurizing purposes, because i do still feel kinda weird about her?, but flora might be the mechanically safer lynch now that we know a kill happens regardless of action submission?


----------



## mewtini

sorry idk if that makes sense :v


----------



## IndigoClaudia

We can always hang me next mafia day. Although i'd rather not be hanged at all.


----------



## mewtini

i want to say based on current evidence the next couple of lynches are flora and emmy, possibly. and i think we're swapping with serimachi?


----------



## IndigoClaudia

If you lynch me i will tell you all: I told you so.


----------



## serimachi

Guys! I'm really sorry I went incommunicado, this game ended up being way more to keep up with than I thought.

If anyone wants to take a stab at catching me up a bit, I might have some useful information I can offer if it makes sense to do so.


----------



## serimachi

Ergh, I just realised that there's tons of players left and "get me caught up" is really vague. Is there anyone we have any concrete knowledge about? Have we killed any Mafia?


----------



## kyeugh

serimachi said:


> Ergh, I just realised that there's tons of players left and "get me caught up" is really vague. Is there anyone we have any concrete knowledge about? Have we killed any Mafia?


we've killed two people who flipped as mafia, and probably a few scum who flipped as innocent anyway.  ottercopter and seshas are mechanically cleared from a swapping role, and panini is clear because the cop (keldeo) reported a green check on her before dying.


----------



## kyeugh

* i lied, we've killed _three_ people who flipped as mafia. forgot about mf.


----------



## mewtini

+ kokorico as outgroup mafia (terrorist)


----------



## mewtini

serimachi said:


> Guys! I'm really sorry I went incommunicado


glad you're back tbh. you have been missed.

now flora come back pls


----------



## Zori

There are 8 people alive, and 1 or 2 mafia:
Ottercopter - Mechanically cleared due to body-swap role (corroborated by 4 dead townies)
Seshas - Mechanically cleared due to body-swap role
Panini - Keldeo (flipped town) had a role to check their alignment and confirmed they are town
Mewtini - Consensus not mafia
Kyeugh - Consensus not mafia
IndigoEmmy
Serimachi
Flora


----------



## mewtini

excited for seri's sweet infodump


----------



## Zori

We have killed 3 Mafia and likely 2 Mafia-Aligned roles so far.


----------



## Zori

mewtini said:


> excited for seri's sweet infodump


well now he can swap back :P


----------



## Ottercopter

Current surviving playerbase:
Mewtini: Claims to be BFFs with a dead alien, third party claiming to be on the town's side now because dead alien.
Me: Mysterious informant
Seshas: Body swapper
Kyeugh: Claims to have a role that reveals tropes of people that target her. I tried swapping with her and failed.
IndigoEmmy: Claims to be a mysterious informant who had verifiable info
Panini: Role unknown, but cleared.
You: You
Flora: Inactive, possible lynch candidate because Butterfree says kills from an inactive mafia would be randomized and last night's kill felt pretty random.

Dead roles: Three mafia, a terrorist, an alien, someone who wanted to be killed by the mafia and was and might actually be the true winner if we get a town victory DAMMIT, THAT SHOULDA BEEN ME, a roleblocker, a cop, a vigilante, someone who could see the tropes of the dead, another mysterious informant who was inactive, someone whose trope was A God Am I, at least three doctors... 

We were thinking of swapping roles with you to get a new power for the town and verify your innocence (which already has a decent case for it because a mafia member suggested you as an inactive lynch?), but now that you're back, I guess that opens up a couple of options.


----------



## Ottercopter

Oh, Seshas said that already. Whoops.


----------



## kyeugh

Ottercopter said:


> someone who wanted to be killed by the mafia and was and might actually be the true winner if we get a town victory DAMMIT, THAT SHOULDA BEEN ME


huh, who was this?


----------



## Ottercopter

Rari_teh. Thanatos gambit. I dunno if that means we all win and they're a super winner or if they're gonna steal the win away from us at the last second. '-'


----------



## serimachi

Dudes, thanks for the info (and for being super nice and not being pissed!)

Well here's my role out in the open--my role is Crazy Prepared. I have a bulletproof vest, that allows someone to attempt to off me, once, and I survive it.

And that in fact _did_ happen. Waaaaaaay back the night before April 19th, the night in which Eifie died instead, somehow. I thought to perhaps bring it up then, in hopes of figuring out how Eifie died. But I realised that this is a really good opportunity to bluff being an alien (in fact I had kind of been mentioning "what if he/she is an _alien??_ in my every post before that in interest of sort of planting the idea), and that it might keep me safe until at least the townsfolk start getting suspicious of me. And _theeeeen_ I just kind of forgot about the game.  Except for one time in the middle of a conversation with my sister, and then until just today when Butterfree messaged me on Facebook.

Apparently my gambit didn't work, if a Mafia member suggested to lynch me. I felt damn clever, though.

You are welcome to body swap with me to check me out. If there's any suspicions I'd encourage it, since to my inexperienced eyes the game looks just about finished anyway? But I'm just gonna vote here for *Flora* unless someone wants object Ace-Attorney-style to Ottercopter. (But it has to be Ace-Attorney style, or not going to listen.)


----------



## serimachi

Also, RE: bodyswap: 






(Timestamp: around 1 minute 30 secs in)


----------



## Ottercopter

One quick question, did using up your bulletproof vest change your trope/role at all, or are you still Crazy Prepared, just without a power now?


----------



## serimachi

No indication that my trope or role has changed at all, just that I'm vulnerable now. (Of course if I was _actually_ crazy prepared, I obviously would have a second bulletproof vest just in case... Mad Eye Moody would never be so naive...)


----------



## Ottercopter

This feels odd to me. The confusion around Eifie's death has been pretty much resolved by now and that would be the only night with any sign that multiple people could have been killed. If you're telling the truth, the easiest explanation I could see is that Eifie tried to kill you while she'd been swapped the vigilante power, so I'm looking back at old posts for any sign that she might have wanted you dead. None so far. Hell, if Eifie died night two, that was the same day that she'd been saying someone should vig _me_ earlier. And I don't think you'd said or done anything that would make you a particularly juicy mafia target either.

...But there's still the matter of Herbe trying to make a case for lynching you on day two. And MF joining in. (Here's him backing off just because I'm running through the thread anyway, might as well. And re-voting once Mawile's suspected before eventually switching to Odie_pie, faking lovers, etc.)

I genuinely don't know what to make of this right now, so I think swapping with you is a good idea if your power's been used up anyway. We can verify your claim AND theoretically preserve someone who's a confirmed townie.

I'd really like to hear how everyone else feels about Serimachi's claim? ;-;

(Also, just because I've been peeking at day 2, we still have no idea what was with VM getting messaged that Kyeugh isn't mafia)


----------



## mewtini

we could swap with him anyway, unless there's someone else we wanted to swap with? 

i pretty much otherwise agree with what you said - the simplest idea is that she tried to vig him, but ...

i still think either way that seri is basically clear though? idk what to make of the claim but it doesn't make me suspicious or anything


----------



## serimachi

By all means, swap away.  Well-argued, wow. This game is beautiful. We should rename it *Salem*.

I guess it would make sense for the attempted murderer to not have actually been Mafia--that would make some sense.


----------



## mewtini

i think with what we know, the only town forces that could have killed anyone would've been a healclash or vig ... neither of which happened, so i have no clue wtf could have happened that night


----------



## Panini

Welcome back seri o7!



Ottercopter said:


> This feels odd to me. The confusion around Eifie's death has been pretty much resolved by now and that would be the only night with any sign that multiple people could have been killed. If you're telling the truth, the easiest explanation I could see is that Eifie tried to kill you while she'd been swapped the vigilante power, so I'm looking back at old posts for any sign that she might have wanted you dead. None so far. Hell, if Eifie died night two, that was the same day that she'd been saying someone should vig _me_ earlier. And I don't think you'd said or done anything that would make you a particularly juicy mafia target either.


I don't think it would really be all that weird if Eifie shot seri even though she had previously said you should get resolved by shot because shooting such a clear projection would have maybe made it more obvious she was the vig and I think Eifie is likely to have that thought?

Also, later in the day it doesn't seem like she cares about resolving your slot more than the stack of people who were just harder to read or ended up being the lynch candidates are seri's name is like, in this pool:


Eifie said:


> people I would vote on rn are like... Mawile serimachi Stryke Mist (maybe) Flora RNP Odie_Pie
> 
> I actually think Odie_Pie is pretty likely to be mafia just based on the number of people in the thread that seem so towny


The math of Seri's claim makes sense: if Eifie was vig that night there should be two kills: one on Eifie from the mafia and the shot Eifie took that night. Eifie's shot couldn't have been blocked by RNP because he claimed to target Stryke N2.

So Serimachi's missing vest is either like, a perfect fake claim or more likely just true.

Thing is, if town had zero night kp, bulletproof would be an inherently towny role since there's no other benefit to having one than dodging the mafia kill.
But with the existence of Vigilante Man from N2 on that's not lockable. If the setup intended for there to be a vig in the game longer, it would be perfectly reasonable to have one maf with a vest imo?
Basically I don't really think seri's lying about his role but it's not necessarily alignment indicative. I guess if we're planning on just executing the swap w him we'll see though.

Re: other seri stuff, I looked back after mewt and otter said there was more to it than what I was saying and I guess it was a stronger push than I really gave it credit for. But like, idk. I'm just reluctant to put much faith in that because it really feels like that came up early on and he seemed to care much less about it after he unveiled himself as """3P""" and yesterday he was floating on Flora. I suppose it depends partially on how hard you think he was into the antispew by then.


----------



## mewtini

ohhh. 

i see what you mean now, though i still find it unlikely that he’s just distanced ingroup mafia - i just think he’s looking better than flora, and i think it doesn’t shift the vote dichotomy (flora vs emmy) that i have in my mind for today. at least with the swap we have a way to sort the three of them between today/tonight/tomorrow, which is nice

your point about herbe abandoning it post-“3p” claim is giving me pause, but i still think serimachi was just an easy inactive push? tbqh i was a seriskeptic for a bit but between the push/seshas vouching for him/that there’s probably one between flora/seri, i’m leaning innocent on him?

lol what if both flora/seri end up being innocent. wouldn’t that be epic :|


----------



## Panini

mewtini said:


> ohhh.
> 
> i see what you mean now, though i still find it unlikely that he’s just distanced ingroup mafia - i just think he’s looking better than flora, and i think it doesn’t shift the vote dichotomy (flora vs emmy) that i have in my mind for today. at least with the swap we have a way to sort the three of them between today/tonight/tomorrow, which is nice
> 
> your point about herbe abandoning it post-“3p” claim is giving me pause, but i still think serimachi was just an easy inactive push? tbqh i was a seriskeptic for a bit but between the push/seshas vouching for him/that there’s probably one between flora/seri, i’m leaning innocent on him?
> 
> lol what if both flora/seri end up being innocent. wouldn’t that be epic :|


Yeah, I mean that's fair, it doesn't shift the dichotomy of today for me massively either and is more of like
thoughts exploration because we have the time
I don't even disagree with you that he has the most reason to be townread out of the three, it's just me nitpicking about how big the gap is between him vs the others :v


----------



## mewtini

oh! yeah, for sure - sorry i guess i reacted somewhat disproportionately. i was kind of thinking about otter's fear about his claim at the same time (and i forgot to say that i see no reason eifie might not have just been the reason for that kill attempt, now that you mention it) and your point about the existence of bulletproof mafia being feasible is a good point that i just totally didn't think about, i always forget about this game's vig until it gets brought up

in general meditation/reiteration, 
it's mildly unfortunate that the three people we're between right now are all like ... pretty null? especially flora, obviously. i will also feel really guilty if emmy ends up being innocent, but whichever way i lean on her at present just ends up being mathematical/odds-based for me - as i said earlier i don't actively scumread her, i just don't feel huge town vibes coming off of her in the way that i think other people seem to, so i keep getting swayed back and forth. so with all that in mind it's pretty much a toss-up for me still, though i do agree flora seems to be the mechanically safest lynch for now given that we have a plan to "figure" "everything" "out"


----------



## mewtini

mewtini said:


> your point [...] is a good point


Sigh


----------



## kyeugh

so who’s getting lynched as it stands rn again


----------



## Ottercopter

Should be* Flora*...? Any objections? =0


----------



## kyeugh

not particularly
has anyone pinged them yet?


----------



## Ottercopter

@Flora you're in danger of being lynched. Wanna plead your case?


----------



## Ottercopter

Or go the Herbe route and make a dramatic villain speech before you die. Whichever.


----------



## Flora

sup guys! turns out! I am really bad at keeping up with mafia with an adult life in general, PLUS 1) new kitten 2) passing away of old cat 3) passing away of old rat 4) acquisition of TWO new baby rat nieces and 5) the other stuff I've been doing with my time (d&d and fanfic writing, to be specific), so literally every time I've been like "hey cool I can hop back in" I have been UTTERLY overwhelmed. to get a picture of how badly I've been keeping up, I had a dream like a week ago that eifie turned out to be a specific role, went "man i'm gonna be so mad if that turns out to be true once she's dead" and then discovered she died NIGHT TWO.

that's a lot of pages to reread! certainly too much for one flora to read with a dnd session later and (presumably) very few hours left in the day! so I! will take_ neither _option and just accept my fate with absolutely no other commentary! :D


----------



## Ottercopter

...Well, at least we aren't lynching the catatonic this time.


----------



## Ottercopter

WAIT FLORA I THOUGHT YOU WERE DONE RESPONDING, BUT YOU JUST REACTED. SO DID YOU DREAM THAT EIFIE WAS A VIGILANTE? I just wanna know if it was prophetic or not.


----------



## Flora

react =/= respond but I CAN confirm that dream!eifie was not a vig. I will explain when this game ends for VERY specific reasons


----------



## serimachi

Ok, now that was definitely a response!


----------



## Ottercopter

O-kay! Stray thoughts of the day just in case I die and can't say them next day phase, same as usual.

 I don't honestly think anyone in this list is mafia, but if lynching Flora and solving Serimachi doesn't end this game, my list of suspects, in order, goes:

Mewtini: Man, if you're mafia and your dynamic with Herbe was an elaborate ruse to convince us of your towniness, I'm gonna be so thrown. ;-; I guess it's mostly because of the Herbe thing and that alien stalker 3P role not coming until after Mist was dead. But again, nobody on here is a huge suspect to me. Just trying to keep things in mind?
Kyeugh: Still wondering about that swap fail...
IndigoEmmy: Still think you're a townie, but honestly, if the swap works, the game continues, and Serimachi lives, you're probably gonna be everyone's next lynch as things are? The only thing that could maybe solve it is a swap (There won't really be anyone to swap with after that anyway, lol), but I'm not sure how viable that'll be anyway.

(If lynching Flora and solving Serimachi DOES end it, that'll be kinda anticlimactic, but I won't complain lol. I guess anything will be hard to top Herbe's monologue.)


----------



## mewtini

goodnight tbh. godspeed to us all :’)


----------



## Butterfree

The quiet, unassuming *Flora* reappears towards the end of the day after being accused, but refuses to say anything. They go to the gallows with casual indifference.

The mafia business card they discover in their pocket prompts several gasps among the crowd, but when it comes right down to it, no one is quite _that_ surprised. Another small victory in their fight against these dastardly villains.

*Flora is dead. They were mafia.

Please send in your night actions. The night will end on May 20th, 0:00 UTC (it's hard thinking of these anymore but please rest assured Iceland is still in the objectively best time zone).*

Final vote count:
*Flora* (5) (IndigoEmmy, Ottercopter, Seshas, mewtini, serimachi)
*IndigoEmmy* (2) (Panini, kyeugh)
No vote (1) (Flora)



Spoiler: Full vote history



*Seshas* votes *IndigoEmmy*
*mewtini* votes *Flora*
*kyeugh* votes *Seshas*
*kyeugh* votes *IndigoEmmy*
*mewtini* votes *IndigoEmmy*
*Panini* votes *IndigoEmmy*
*IndigoEmmy* votes *Flora*
*Seshas* votes *Flora*
*mewtini* votes *Flora*
*serimachi* votes *Flora*
*Ottercopter* votes *Flora*





Spoiler: Active votes



*IndigoEmmy* votes *Flora*
*Ottercopter* votes *Flora*
*Panini* votes *IndigoEmmy*
*Seshas* votes *Flora*
*kyeugh* votes *IndigoEmmy*
*mewtini* votes *Flora*
*serimachi* votes *Flora*


----------



## Butterfree

A new day, a new murder. The villagers expect it by now, but they still wince when they realize *serimachi* isn't there. They discover him eventually, in his bed, apparently sleeping until they try to shake him awake and find him unresponsive and cold to the touch.

*serimachi is dead. He was not mafia.

You have 72 hours to discuss. The day will end on May 23rd, 0:00 UTC (Iceland etc.).*



Spoiler: Pings



@Negrek
@Keldeo
@JackPK
@Flora
@I liek Squirtles
@kyeugh
@Ottercopter
@M&F
@Mist1422
@Eifie
@RedneckPhoenix
@Panini
@kokorico
@Boquise
@Seshas
@Stryke
@mewtini
@Mr. Ultracool
@IndigoEmmy
@rari_teh
@Mawile
@Odie_Pie
@serimachi
@Herbe
@Vipera Magnifica


----------



## mewtini

interesting nk tbh


----------



## Zori

that is a fairly non-sensical kill tbh


----------



## Zori

rip body snatcher

I am Crazy Prepared now


----------



## mewtini

i really do not understand the last two nks. not that i want anyone gone but why in the _world_ serimachi over, like ... whoever they thought was swapping with them, or literally anyone else who's been actively solving and/or is cleared (otter/seshas in particular imo)


----------



## Ottercopter

Aww, he just got here... I guess we've lost our body swapper and Seshas is bulletproof now? Kind of an odd choice when there were really only two players left who haven't had a swap attempted by now (Hi, IndigoEmmy!) and one of them (Hi, Mewtini!) at least sounds like they woulda been unswappable. Weird, like you've been saying.


----------



## Zori

_Alive:_
Otter
mewtini
Seshas
kyeugh
Panini
Emmy

the final stretch


----------



## mewtini

i'm guessing that the bulletproof power's been used up though, given that serimachi is now dead? (the only reason _to_ target him would be that he said his vest was gone, but that still makes like. negative sense, doesn't it)


----------



## Zori

well
I'm the bulletproof
my vest was popped


----------



## mewtini

lol i take back what i said. i forgot that serimachi was the new bodyswapper. this is a less nonsensical kill now


Ottercopter said:


> Aww, he just got here... I guess we've lost our body swapper and Seshas is bulletproof now? Kind of an odd choice when there were really only two players left who haven't had a swap attempted by now (Hi, IndigoEmmy!) and one of them (Hi, Mewtini!) at least sounds like they woulda been unswappable. Weird, like you've been saying.


at risk of sounding like i again have it out for emmy: is it possible that it's a Master Strat to avoid the swapback?


----------



## Zori

I think it's time for everyone to claim in full?


----------



## Ottercopter

Oh, the best didn't refresh? That's unfortunate...
Okay, so with two of us definitely cleared, one of us probably cleared... I feel like IndigoEmmy will probably become the day's lynch, but there's no real rush.

Ugh, the annoying thing about this kill is that it feels like it could be IndigoEmmy killing to avoid getting swapped just as easily as it could be someone trying to frame them because it's such a straightforward motive to follow.


----------



## Ottercopter

The _vest._


----------



## mewtini

Ottercopter said:


> Oh, the best didn't refresh?


we are all the best™!


----------



## Zori

So
we need to narrow the pool down to 2 people to win


----------



## mewtini

Ottercopter said:


> two of us definitely cleared, one of us probably cleared.


who is your probable clear? assuming your definites are you/seshas (+ panini?)


----------



## Ottercopter

Panini, yeah. I still believe in Keldeo's read and all and certainly wouldn't ever lynch Panini, it's just not technically as ironclad as a successful bodyswap and I think everyone's tinfoil hatted it at least a little.

...Okay, now that we have a dead body swapper, can I just say I'm really surprised at their flavor text? I was so, so sure a dead swapper would have a despairing expression because an aspect to the role is that the current body swapper can't win the game (In the same way that Rari_teh died grinning). This doesn't mean anything, it was just on my mind.


----------



## Zori

*Herbe* (5) (IndigoEmmy, Ottercopter, Panini, kyeugh, mewtini)
*Flora* (2) (Herbe, Mr. Ultracool)
No vote (3) (Flora, serimachi, Seshas)
this really isn't so informative


----------



## Zori

Emmy then kyeugh should win the game


----------



## mewtini

heh, yeah. i mean from last EoD we've got

*Flora* (5) (IndigoEmmy, Ottercopter, Seshas, mewtini, serimachi)
*IndigoEmmy* (2) (Panini, kyeugh)
No vote (1) (Flora)

which is interesting exclusively for panini, maaaybe, but not really (i only bring her up because she was actively posting at the end of the phase and i was actually expecting her to vote). i'd also say that emmy's vote on flora isn't that significant?



Seshas said:


> Emmy then kyeugh should win the game


kyeugh over panini?


----------



## mewtini

well, actually, i guess we'll be waiting for them to claim anyway


----------



## Zori

If mewtini is mafia my mind is blown
Panini is the shakiest tbh
if Otter is mafia something is seriously screwed up here
I'm leaning kyeugh over Panini rn for 1. the bizarre action screw up with Vipera 2. Panini did something townie middle-game iirc (I need to re-investigate)
also Keldeo got a green on Panini

There's a good chance it's just Emmy and the game ends here though


----------



## mewtini

oh, gotcha. my logic was just that skylar's been townie all game and that panini is the only other person who could possibly be newly implicated by a swap - it's been established that i probably can't be swapped with, and there was already an attempt made to swap w/skylar ... to be clear, i don't actually think it's panini, i just didn't realize you'd lynch skylar first


----------



## mewtini

Seshas said:


> 1. the bizarre action screw up with Vipera


also i guess i came away from this thinking skylar was townier for how she handled it, especially now that VM is confirmed inno


----------



## Zori

the only reasons that I can think of for failed VM swap are 
1. Ottercopter was Roleblocked
2. some sort of Hybrid Overkill Avoidance thing since Vipera already changed roles


----------



## Zori

Otter being roleblocked is possible exactly if M&F was Mafia Roleblocker, and only blocked the initial swap with kyeugh
otherwise it makes no sense why mafia would suddenly stop blocking Otter


----------



## Ottercopter

Feeling the immense pressure of only having two more chances to find the last mafia member in order to win. I hope graveyard chat isn't yelling at their screens about how obvious the last member is, lol.


----------



## Ottercopter

I'm gonna take that as a yes and go sulk in the corner because Mafia is hard.


----------



## Zori

it's ok you're probably dying tonight and then I have to scream for the subsequent 72 hours


----------



## mewtini

noooooooooo


----------



## Zori

technically we could afford only 1 missed shot to find the mafia since D7


----------



## Zori

@Butterfree Shouldn't it say D9 in the title?


----------



## Ottercopter

Seshas said:


> it's ok you're probably dying tonight and then I have to scream for the subsequent 72 hours


Well, they could kill Panini! It depends on how juicy her role is. You and I don't have any powers anymore, after all.


----------



## Zori

Ottercopter said:


> Well, they could kill Panini! It depends on how juicy her role is. You and I don't have any powers anymore, after all.


please do this mafia so we only have to sort between kyeugh/mewtini


----------



## kyeugh

seshas are you saying your vest just popped last night?


----------



## kyeugh

are panini and i the only ones that haven’t full claimed?


----------



## Zori

kyeugh said:


> seshas are you saying your vest just popped last night?


it was popped already when the role arrived to me


----------



## Ottercopter

kokorico said:


> Again, I'm really sorry about how this ended up and I acknowledge that I'm way out of my league at this point. Assuming I survive next night, I promise to kill whoever y'all tell me to and not try to be clever about it.


I'm running through the thread again to try to determine who my two lynches of choice are and I saw this and I'm dying, Squirtle.


----------



## Ottercopter

kyeugh said:


> are panini and i the only ones that haven’t full claimed?


Yep! Guessing you're gonna say it anyway, but I'd love to hear which two people you're most wary of too. Or your general thoughts on everyone, really.


----------



## mewtini

kyeugh said:


> seshas are you saying your vest just popped last night?


yeah this was just from what seri said yesterDay


----------



## mewtini

er, the 'yeah' was meant in agreement with/continuation of what seshas said


----------



## IndigoClaudia

Welp. With seremachi gone i'm dead.
(I haven't caught up yet)


----------



## IndigoClaudia

I'm everybody's lynch of choice, but i don't think we know the full extents of kyeugh or panini right? I'll decide who to vote for later.


----------



## IndigoClaudia

Seshas said:


> technically we could afford only 1 missed shot to find the mafia since D7


ouch. if this is the case than lynching me is a mistake.


----------



## Zori

there's one mafia in [Emmy/kyeugh/Panini]
we just have to rule one of them out to win
I'm leaning Panini


----------



## IndigoClaudia

I know for a fact it's either kyeugh or panini but you guys don't know that so it's easier for me.


----------



## Ottercopter

As things are now, my two are Kyeugh and Mewtini. But counterbalancing that is the fact that if IndigoEmmy is mafia and wins, I am going to feel incredibly stupid at the end of the game. I wanna hear more from everyone. ;-;


----------



## Zori

*IndigoEmmy*

I feel like she's still the most likely to be mafia


----------



## IndigoClaudia

i feel betrayed o.O


----------



## IndigoClaudia

So i think we need a roleclaim with @Panini and @kyeugh to clear things up.


----------



## kyeugh

i guess i can roleclaim. does everyone feel i should


----------



## IndigoClaudia

yes.


----------



## Zori

Yes


----------



## Zori

*YES. Snowboards* is manufacturer of snowboards.[1][2] It was founded in 2009 and is based in Europe.[3][4] 

YES. Snowboards Inc.

TypePrivateIndustrySporting goodsFounded2009HeadquartersSwitzerlandKey peopleRomain De Marchi, JP Solberg, DCPProductsSnowboard equipment, apparel, accessoriesNumber of employees20Websitehttp://www.yesnowboard.com/


----------



## IndigoClaudia

don't leave us hanging!


----------



## IndigoClaudia

Seshas said:


> *YES. Snowboards* is manufacturer of snowboards.[1][2] It was founded in 2009 and is based in Europe.[3][4]
> 
> YES. Snowboards Inc.
> 
> TypePrivateIndustrySporting goodsFounded2009HeadquartersSwitzerlandKey peopleRomain De Marchi, JP Solberg, DCPProductsSnowboard equipment, apparel, accessoriesNumber of employees20Websitehttp://www.yesnowboard.com/


Wait what?


----------



## IndigoClaudia

@kyeugh you we're gonna claim your role right. :O do it now


----------



## kyeugh

my role is the Heroic Mime, and my power is It’s Personal. i’ve been linked to panini since the beginning of the game, and it’s actually through her that i’ve received my information. i’m sure she’ll talk about that herself. my own power is that if panini is killed during the night, i learn the identity of her killer. not too useful now that it’s claimed. we don’t have communication with each other, but we do know each other’s alignments.


----------



## Ottercopter

Seshas said:


> *YES. Snowboards* is manufacturer of snowboards.[1][2] It was founded in 2009 and is based in Europe.[3][4]
> 
> YES. Snowboards Inc.


Their role is Totally Radical and their power is Rule of Cool. Each night, they can perform a sick sports trick, which distracts a player of choice and redirects their action.


----------



## IndigoClaudia

Do you know Panini's role?


----------



## Ottercopter

kyeugh said:


> my role is the Heroic Mime, and my power is It’s Personal. i’ve been linked to panini since the beginning of the game, and it’s actually through her that i’ve received my information. i’m sure she’ll talk about that herself. my own power is that if panini is killed during the night, i learn the identity of her killer. not too useful now that it’s claimed. we don’t have communication with each other, but we do know each other’s alignments.


Okay, but if that clears you and Panini (Thank god Keldeo inspected them), then that makes our lynch targets Mewtini and Emmy. That's game changing as long as it's true. I'd also assume that's unswappable because you're linked to another player?


----------



## IndigoClaudia

Ottercopter said:


> is Rule of Cool.


Can i have the power Power of cute?





this is cute.


----------



## Zori

so that locks between Mewtini and Emmy as long as Panini confirms they know kyeugh's alignment?


----------



## IndigoClaudia

noooo this is bad. I want the town to win. I don't want the mafia to win just because you guys decide to vote me instead.


----------



## kyeugh

IndigoEmmy said:


> Do you know Panini's role?


 not exactly, but i’ve been getting informed every time i’m targetted, so since my power is related directly to her i assume it’s that.


Ottercopter said:


> I'd also assume that's unswappable because you're linked to another player?


 yeah, that was my guess. like we’re just too entwined for it to be swappable. i would’ve assumed it was swappable, honestly, but... well, obviously it isn’t. :p


----------



## Ottercopter

IndigoEmmy said:


> Ottercopter said:
> 
> 
> 
> is Rule of Cool.
> 
> 
> 
> Can i have the power Power of cute?
Click to expand...

Works for me.Here's your mafia role. Here's your town one.


----------



## IndigoClaudia

Darn i totally should have had these tropes/roles from the start.


----------



## IndigoClaudia

So i believe kyeugh's roleclaim. But this has just one problem. I'm the new target. (Or i guess mewtini who's probably gonna be my vote)


----------



## kyeugh

anyway, i hate to do this but... if it’s between emmy and mewtini i think i have to go *mewtini*? it just seems like a big stretch to me that emmy’s info was fabricated, and i don’t think mewtini has that kind of mechanical cover even if her play has been much townier imo. not impossible that i’m wrong here, and lowkey i hope mewtini isn’t mafia because , but this is what makes the most sense to me right now.


----------



## IndigoClaudia

Sorry *mewtini*.


----------



## Zori

kyeugh said:


> i hope mewtini isn’t mafia because


same tbh


----------



## IndigoClaudia

I don't care if nobody believes me when i say this, but i'm not mafia, so lynching me is going to waste a whole day. That's not good.


----------



## Ottercopter

Eh, if there's only two lynch targets left, wasting a day doesn't really mean anything anymore. For what it's worth, I'm pretty sure we just lose to Rari_teh now anyway. 

@Panini


----------



## kyeugh

Ottercopter said:


> For what it's worth, I'm pretty sure we just lose to Rari_teh now anyway.


wouldn’t the game have ended immediately if this was true?


----------



## IndigoClaudia

kyeugh said:


> Ottercopter said:
> 
> 
> 
> For what it's worth, I'm pretty sure we just lose to Rari_teh now anyway.
> 
> 
> 
> wouldn’t the game have ended immediately if this was true?
Click to expand...

Apparently not.


----------



## Ottercopter

Nah, the town has to win first. The death seeker's win priority went: Town win where you're mafia killed > Town win where you're not mafia killed > Mafia win whether you're mafia killed or not.


----------



## Ottercopter

Although the role PM only said that was how we won, not what happens to the rest of the town, so that part's just a guess anyway.


----------



## IndigoClaudia

@mewtini you're the primary lynch target. Do you have any reasons why you aren't mafia?


----------



## Zori

Ottercopter said:


> Nah, the town has to win first. The death seeker's win priority went: Town win where you're mafia killed > Town win where you're not mafia killed > Mafia win whether you're mafia killed or not.


me inside
reeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee


----------



## kyeugh

Ottercopter said:


> Although the role PM only said that was how we won, not what happens to the rest of the town, so that part's just a guess anyway.


my guess is that it was a personal win condition that doesn’t preclude a town victory, but who knows tbh. hopefully it doesn’t fuck us out of the W.


----------



## IndigoClaudia

yipeee


----------



## mewtini

bruh

well ... i don’t have any mechanical cover to rely on so i guess i’ll just have to accept my fate but like. idk if now is the time to start pulling out reasons i think emmy is still more likely the mafia than others (i continue to think kyeugh is town, in particular)

there’s a lot of time left in the day so i’ll vibe/idly solve for a bit, but hopefully no one takes my #resignation as an admission of guilt lol. i feel like there’s kind of nothing i can do other than try to help for after i flip nonmafia :p


----------



## mewtini

i suppose that i will like sadness-post for a bit while i get some thoughts out and i might as well vote *indigoemmy* lmfao

to be honest, i'm feeling less frustrated - with panini, kyeugh, emmy, ottercopter, and seshas remaining, you at least win tomorrow even if it's in MyLo since emmy is now the only vaguely skeptical clear (skylar's claim now solidifies panini which is nice!) so she gets lynched next. god bless. this is a much better way to have to go out than when i panicked for a full night phase thinking that herbe pocketing me was going to get me immediately lynched :(

the only real thing i have to say in my defense is that i think my behavior in roleclaiming made sense as a (somewhat inept) 3p role - i only really bring this up because i think otter thought that my roleclaim was opportune/weird, since it came _after_ mist died? i said this before but i straight up didn't realize that they'd claimed. quite frankly i don't think i would have claimed until after the lynch, even if i had seen mist's claim, because it just feels weirdly game throwy and in that scenario i'd be more preoccupied with that than with keeping my credibility with town (which i already feel like i threw away a bit by even claiming as soon as i did, which again, was first thing after mist died - and i only claimed then because my fate in the game technically stopped mattering)


mewtini said:


> (i continue to think kyeugh is town, in particular)


btw, i now realize this was totally unneeded. sorry. i had only read the posts with my name bolded and hadn't totally caught up, hehe


----------



## Zori

This is where my mind is at right now


Eifie said:


> I am extremely pocketed by mewtini tbh and probably won't stop being so all game. just saying.


----------



## mewtini

i mean tbqh i Get It and that's why i've kind of given up. emmy still makes me feel weird and i still really think that she's the last wolf, but if you guys are going to lynch her tomorrow anyway, then it's pretty ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ and you'll (hopefully?!?!) win regardless! and i am the lynch that makes the most sense. i'm just sadboiz about not making it to the very end :>


----------



## mewtini

anyway, to temporarily point fingers, the only evidence i think that actually looks better for me versus emmy is voting history

ok gn tbh


----------



## IndigoClaudia

xD my voting history seems suspicious lol


----------



## mewtini

tbh i think it's kind of uncharacteristic/novel how emmy took charge just now (like, pinging me, announcing me as her vote) when, now that i actually properly read back again, there are only two votes on me hahaha


----------



## IndigoClaudia

I just wanted to know if i had any reason not to vote for you...


----------



## mewtini

tbh now i feel like i overreacted/made my semi-long posts kind of early, all i saw was emmy's ping saying i was the primary lynch now :') so ... i thought the scenario was a bit more dire than it was. i guess it doesn't rly change much though!


----------



## IndigoClaudia

now i feel bad.  :/


----------



## mewtini

omg, no, don't feel bad

i'm just pointing things out that feel weird or off to me. i'm not upset or anything like that, it's all good bro


----------



## IndigoClaudia

I for one, am about as weird and off as can be without being literal mafia.


----------



## Ottercopter

Hey, Kyeugh, do you know if Panini's power might have anything to do with VM getting that message about you not being mafia on day two?


----------



## kyeugh

you officially know as much about panini’s role as i do, so your guess is as good as mine. i honestly don’t see how it could be related though.


----------



## Panini

kyeugh said:


> my role is the Heroic Mime, and my power is It’s Personal. i’ve been linked to panini since the beginning of the game, and it’s actually through her that i’ve received my information. i’m sure she’ll talk about that herself. my own power is that if panini is killed during the night, i learn the identity of her killer. not too useful now that it’s claimed. we don’t have communication with each other, but we do know each other’s alignments.


Yep! Can confirm.
My role is Voice with an Internet Connection and my role trope is Exact Eavesdropping - I act as a watcher on kyeugh during the night and send her who visited her and with what power (but not their role). It's a passive ability and I don't get to see the results myself but it's written explicitly that it acts as an action from me to her and is therefore targettable - I'm presuming this was why we got the weird VM power name issue that one day.



Ottercopter said:


> Hey, Kyeugh, do you know if Panini's power might have anything to do with VM getting that message about you not being mafia on day two?


This wasn't me! Not sure what's up with that, but as far as I remember the two names that this happened with were Ultracool and kyeugh so I kind of shrugged past it?


----------



## mewtini

Panini said:


> as far as I remember the two names that this happened with were Ultracool


just reminding everyone that the ultracool thing wasn't a real whisper!


----------



## Panini

mewtini said:


> Panini said:
> 
> 
> 
> as far as I remember the two names that this happened with were Ultracool
> 
> 
> 
> just reminding everyone that the ultracool thing wasn't a real whisper!
Click to expand...

Oh right! Well then yeah, I still don't know but it wasn't me basically. Maybe it was some sort of oracle-esque thing on Boq's part? Since the only time it happened was right after he was killed.


----------



## kyeugh

oh that’s a good point
also it is really weird to actually talk about this after being silently linked to you for so long. hi partner! :D


----------



## Panini

kyeugh said:


> oh that’s a good point
> also it is really weird to actually talk about this after being silently linked to you for so long. hi partner! :D


Hey pard! :> It is weird! but also a weight off my chest to be able to finally hear from you directly! :'D

Thoughts on the general gamestate: hopefully we really are just in mechanical lock now for one in mewtini/Emmy. Seri dying last night adds a lot of cred to the last wolf just wanting to avoid more clears via body swaps so Seshas/Otter, if they weren't already by the circumstances, are double-lock to me today.

I wasn't really expecting to have to put mewtini back in the pool, so I'm kind of more ready to pull the trigger on Emmy today,,?
But I do think like. Just mechanically things work out way crisper and more in line with Occam's Razor if it's Emmy that telling the truth about her claim and it ends up mewtini's is fabricated :

Mewtini's claim to be 3P assistant to Mist comes after Mist is dead. Which means that the small amount of accountability that would have come with the 3P claim had already been dealt with before it was out to us.

Emmy on the other hand I think dropped the nano/mage thing before anybody had tipped their hand about either one, so in order for this to have been a fake we would also have to patch in some way for the mafia to have fed her this info and for her to have spun up an early claim based on it. Which is like, not impossible, but just requires a bit more stretch for the imagination.

@mewtini Sorry to ask again, but do I remember correct that you said your wincon hadn't been updated since Mist had died?


----------



## mewtini

Panini said:


> Sorry to ask again, but do I remember correct that you said your wincon hadn't been updated since Mist had died?


yep! if mist hit their alien wincon, then i would win whether i was alive or dead



Panini said:


> Seri dying last night adds a lot of cred to the last wolf just wanting to avoid more clears via body swaps so Seshas/Otter, if they weren't already by the circumstances, are double-lock to me today.


ftr this is kind of what swayed me back over to suspecting emmy (like, before we pivoted to me vs her) - i think she would have been the next swap, since i wasn't really in line to get swapped with? or maybe it would've been panini, who's clear now anyway. (then again i guess in that world, w!me could have been trying to frame her with the serimachi nk, as otter mentioned was a possible motive for the kill. on the other hand, if i pretend that i'm mafia, i don't see why - given that i was safe from the swapchain - i'd choose to get rid of serimachi over seshas or otter, who have been cleared and are incredibly useful to town; it kinda baffles me that they're still around)



Panini said:


> Mewtini's claim to be 3P assistant to Mist comes after Mist is dead. Which means that the small amount of accountability that would have come with the 3P claim had already been dealt with before it was out to us.


yeah. i talked a bit before about why i didn't claim earlier, but ...

well. as i said. i do think i make sense as a lynch and if i weren't me, i'd be voting for me too ehehehe ... it's just kind of frustrating because i know i'm not a wolf and i have nothing to work with to prove that i'm not, aside from the fact that i have a cleaner voting history. :[ the bright side is that i think that if all the other clears are to be trusted (and i think they are), the wolf is definitely between emmy and i, so at least town still wins. 

and i've already lost, anyway! hahaha. i almost wish i were actually mafia so i could be proud of myself for having made it this far ...


----------



## mewtini

i can't believe there's so much time left in the day. this is truly a wild introductory game


----------



## Ottercopter

To be fair, without Kyeugh specifically being paired with Panini, we would probably have needed this time to debate and narrow down our suspects.

I don't suppose anyone wants to liven up the thread with a dramatic confession...? ;-;


----------



## Zori

I am *The Chessmaster*, my power is *Spanner In The Works. *Each night, I can manipulate a person, roleblocking them and gaining a use of their ability. Additionally, I use the first role I steal as a shield for investigative and role-swapping abilities.
I targeted Odie_Pie N0, and I used their role as my shield, while getting their info. My shield is now the Crazy Prepared role.


----------



## Zori

That took more effort to make than I should have devoted to it


----------



## Zori

appearantly I'm an idiot and my ability is Kansas City Shuffle
Spanner in the Works is the ability where someone catches me despite having a green cop check


----------



## Zori

36 hours without speech
it's nice to know that this game now continues at a manageable rate


----------



## Zori

so
I know I'm not changing my vote
how's everyone else doing


----------



## Zori

I think that mewtini has had consistantly townier play than emmy


----------



## mewtini

Seshas said:


> how's everyone else doing


i just woke up.


----------



## Zori

LMAO I just realized that if you click on someone's location, it opens it in google maps
that's golden


----------



## mewtini

omfg. yes. i love that it fuzzy searches pencilvania into pennsylvania correctly


----------



## mewtini

now that i'm engaging with this game for the first time in over a day ... i figure it doesn't help or hurt me to go through emmyposting? so.. i'm just going to briefly pretend that it's not me vs her and just talk about the thing i landed on just now, if that's alright

on page 213 (right before the "mist isn't mafia" slip that seshas talked about, that i didn't/don't really think was ultra significant) she agreed that MF was known mafia, only to move votes to mist when she realized that mist's claim was faked, and then moved back to MF upon realizing that no one wanted to move off of confirmed mafia:


Spoiler: quotes






IndigoEmmy said:


> I feel conforted by the fact that the only (probably) known mafia is *M&F. *
> 
> But, to be fair, i am one of the most gullible people ever so i don't think i can trust everyone here.





IndigoEmmy said:


> _<people talking about why mist's claim had to be faked>_
> ARE YOU SAYING MIST IS LYING





IndigoEmmy said:


> *Mist1422*





mewtini said:


> uh. ... we should still lynch MF first
> 
> 
> IndigoEmmy said:
> 
> 
> 
> *HANG THEM IN TOWN SQUARE*
> 
> 
> 
> remember: late keldeo's words. i will not tolerate this
Click to expand...




IndigoEmmy said:


> *M&F*
> 
> (And also *Mist *is very very suspicious)





IndigoEmmy said:


> Ok i believe mist. She's not mafia but she better help us if she doesn't want to die.





(fwiw i agreed with skylar earlier that the later half seemed like floundering-town, but the moving off of MF onto mist and back onto MF is what makes me uncomfy)


----------



## mewtini

mewtini said:


> i didn't/don't really think was ultra significant **_on its own_


----------



## mewtini

mewtini said:


> when she realized that mist's claim was faked


well, "realized," if i'm in the world where she's mafia

tbh i think i just swung back around all of a sudden to caring if i get lynched or not, if there's any hope of me Not getting lynched. even if i understand why. i'm just like ... i get that it's improbable that her claim was fabricated, but i think improbable != impossible



Herbe said:


> rari_teh said:
> 
> 
> 
> Wild Thought: mafia!Mawile said he targeted mafia!Herbe on n0 so that some pages later mafia!Herbe could hardclaim honeypot lovers
> 
> 
> 
> Rari you were just far, far too smart. I know you were speaking at this point with a red check on Mawile, but seriously. You had to die for this statement alone, lmao. Should have taken you out right then, tbh. Like, you were on the ball so damn much. Impressive...
Click to expand...

in a world where this kind of long-con was apparently something that the mafia _did_ do, idk why it's impossible that they got together and decided to gamble on a fakeclaim. 

like ... i know they wouldn't have known this at the time, but seshas' MI info is actually still unconfirmed, technically, and they're still town. it almost makes me wonder if the event that triggered emmy's roleclaim was actually just seshas having claimed the "mafia pulling the strings" bit in post 184 (a bit over a hundred posts before emmy's claim) and they got excited because seshas' info was hard to verify? (_extreme_ tinfoil hat is that this is also what triggered emmy even appearing in the thread; when she got in, she immediately roleclaimed, but even her entrance came 100 posts after seshas softclaimed)


----------



## mewtini

w/the caveat that second bit of spec depends on mafia having already been aware of the MI role to begin with (so, basically game 1 knowledge) but that's pretty much the easiest thing to take for granted here


----------



## mewtini

mewtini said:


> i think i just swung back around all of a sudden to caring if i get lynched or not, if there's any hope of me Not getting lynched


tl;dr if you lynch me today, plz lynch emmy tomorrow,
but above all, lynch emmy today so we can all reunite in cats asap and i can hopefully rand a role that isn't fucking alien support :>


----------



## Butterfree

The day ends in a bit over an hour and a half.



Spoiler: Full vote history



*Seshas* votes *IndigoEmmy*
*kyeugh* votes *mewtini*
*IndigoEmmy* votes *mewtini*
*mewtini* votes *IndigoEmmy*





Spoiler: Active votes



*IndigoEmmy* votes *mewtini*
*Seshas* votes *IndigoEmmy*
*kyeugh* votes *mewtini*
*mewtini* votes *IndigoEmmy*



Vote counts:
*mewtini* (2) (IndigoEmmy, kyeugh)
*IndigoEmmy* (2) (Seshas, mewtini)
No vote (2) (Ottercopter, Panini)


----------



## mewtini

boutta rely on my super high-school level luck


----------



## mewtini

sorry. last post. just had a waking nightmare that emmy flipped green somehow. there's definitely no way that it's someone outside of me and emmy, right? kyeugh/panini have cleared each other (+ keldeo's clear), otter/seshas are swap cleared?


----------



## kyeugh

i don’t see how it could be tbh, unless there’s something we don’t know about the swapping.


----------



## Ottercopter

I'll admit I had paranoid "WHAT IF CULT?"-esque thoughts about Kyeugh and Panini, but... yeah, I don't really think it's likely or even worth pursing anymore. If it's not you or IndigoEmmy, I'm definitely gonna scream about how easily we got tricked, though. That's for sure. =P


----------



## mewtini

i want to believe ...


----------



## mewtini

jk tho. i just wanted to put my momentary paranoia to rest.


----------



## Ottercopter

OH WAIT I HAVEN'T VOTED. UH. UH. My brain says *Mewtini*, but ow, my heart. I'm so sorry. ;-;


----------



## Ottercopter

Panini, you have nine minutes to make this a roulette again.


----------



## mewtini

i was so excited about the rand tbh :(


----------



## Ottercopter

I know, I'm kinda tempted to unvote. Surely if we're down to two, it's the same either way, right? Kyeugh pls help, I seek your wisdom in the hopes that you aren't somehow evil. Or Seshas, I guess.


----------



## mewtini

sigh! well ... ok. i almost made it to the end i guess :'D 
i had a lot of fun in my First Real Mafia Game. gl tomorrow y'all!


----------



## Ottercopter

...Hell with it, one last bit of fun for the road since there won't be much to talk about next day phase. if this somehow ruins the game for us and the mafia somehow have a secret double murder power, but only at the end, you can blame me. *unvote*. Good luck to the townie among you two.


----------



## mewtini

Ottercopter said:


> Good luck to the townie among you two.


or the 3p ;^)


----------



## Ottercopter

mewtini said:


> Ottercopter said:
> 
> 
> 
> Good luck to the townie among you two.
> 
> 
> 
> or the 3p ;^)
Click to expand...

But are you really?


----------



## mewtini

sinister minister babey!!!!!!!


----------



## mewtini

mewtini said:


> boutta rely on my super high-school level luck


.


----------



## Butterfree

The Tropervillians remain undecided at the end of the day. Some D&D player among them who definitely isn't shadily directing all this pulls out a d12 die: if it comes up odd, they kill *mewtini*, and if it's even, they'll go for *IndigoEmmy*.

The result is 11. The die has spoken as to who will die. *mewtini*'s super high-school level luck fails to show.

She's summarily hanged, and all they find in her pockets are prayer books full of strange, ominous chants. Whatever that means, she wasn't part of that mafia they're trying to hunt down.

*mewtini is dead. She was not mafia.

Please send in your night actions. The night will end on May 25th, 0:00 UTC (everyone who played in this game is invited to come to Iceland to enjoy the correct time zone).*

Final vote count:
*mewtini* (2) (IndigoEmmy, kyeugh)
*IndigoEmmy* (2) (Seshas, mewtini)
No vote (2) (Ottercopter, Panini)



Spoiler: Full vote history



*Seshas* votes *IndigoEmmy*
*kyeugh* votes *mewtini*
*IndigoEmmy* votes *mewtini*
*mewtini* votes *IndigoEmmy*
*Ottercopter* votes *mewtini*
*Ottercopter* unvotes





Spoiler: Active votes



*IndigoEmmy* votes *mewtini*
*Seshas* votes *IndigoEmmy*
*kyeugh* votes *mewtini*
*mewtini* votes *IndigoEmmy*


----------



## Butterfree

As the hapless tropers gather once more in the square, *Ottercopter* is missing.

They cautiously approach her house once more. It is eerily silent. As they enter, the otters wail mournfully. *Ottercopter* lies dead in the living room; her helicopter blades have stopped spinning for the last time.

*Ottercopter is dead. She was not mafia.

You have 72 hours to discuss. The day will end on May 28th, 0:00 UTC (did you know technically Icelandic midnight isn't until around 1:37 AM, but we still go by UTC because it is the superior time zone).*



Spoiler: Pings



@Negrek
@Keldeo
@JackPK
@Flora
@I liek Squirtles
@kyeugh
@Ottercopter
@M&F
@Mist1422
@Eifie
@RedneckPhoenix
@Panini
@kokorico
@Boquise
@Seshas
@Stryke
@mewtini
@Mr. Ultracool
@IndigoEmmy
@rari_teh
@Mawile
@Odie_Pie
@serimachi
@Herbe
@Vipera Magnifica


----------



## Zori

so
Panini/kyeugh
can you confirm that you know 100% eachother are town?


----------



## Zori

*IndigoEmmy*

I have arrived at Vindication Station


----------



## kyeugh

Seshas said:


> so
> Panini/kyeugh
> can you confirm that you know 100% eachother are town?


yep.


----------



## kyeugh

i guess *IndigoEmmy* is the move although honestly the fact that her MI tidbit was fabricated still is really hard for me to believe. but… i guess no matter who the mafia is it’s hard to believe at this point, and it makes the most sense for it to be her?


----------



## Zori

kyeugh said:


> i guess *IndigoEmmy* is the move although honestly the fact that her MI tidbit was fabricated still is really hard for me to believe. but… i guess no matter who the mafia is it’s hard to believe at this point, and it makes the most sense for it to be her?


"makes the most sense" is an understatement at this point


----------



## Zori

like
the only way it could NOT be emmy is if Panini shows up and says they weren't told kyeugh's alignement in their role


----------



## Panini

Seshas said:


> so
> Panini/kyeugh
> can you confirm that you know 100% eachother are town?


yeah, there's explicitly no way it's kyeugh. I would have been clear about that yesterday during the claim if I thought there was like, leeway in the wording or something.

Pretty much in 99% of worlds, should just be *IndigoEmmy*? As per much discussion?


----------



## Panini

Sorry also for forgetting to come back before the end of last phase. I guess it didn't make a huge difference in the end because to be completely honest I was,, kind of leaning on mewtini's lack of new wincon as being worrysome anyway? But it is what it is.

I can't imagine it'd be Seshas after the body swap has had like. 5 non-mafia flips involved and been transparently traceable in the thread this entire time. The leaps in logic to explain around it are substantially more out there than what's required to explain FakedMI!Emmy.


----------



## Zori

@Butterfree 
Can we skip the day phase if everyone agrees?


----------



## IndigoClaudia

I'm the only vote here and im dead... so darn.

Also I do not agree to skipping. :P


----------



## Zori

Do you have any confessions to make?


----------



## IndigoClaudia

Nope. Everything i said was true.


----------



## Zori

IndigoEmmy said:


> Ok i literally am not town.


----------



## IndigoClaudia

Seshas said:


> IndigoEmmy said:
> 
> 
> 
> Ok i literally am not town.
Click to expand...

This is false. Everything else I said was true.


----------



## Zori

IndigoEmmy said:


> I'm """suspicious""" with a lot of quotation marks.


It may not be definitive
but it's true """"""


----------



## Zori

Why we thought Indigo was town:
I, at least, thought Indigo was town because of her total and utter conviction in her reads despite them being wrong. This is pretty off the wall and unlikely to be scum in a vaccuum.

However:
*Indigo is NEVER resolving.*
If we leave her alive another day, she's NOT going to clear herself more. She's NOT going to push any more content.
Her entrance attitude is the only thing about her play that was hard to fake. She did it well, if she's wolf. But the fact that she's in a bubble, not interacting with the gamestate the entire midgame, gives her enough wolf equity that I'm really not comfortable with leaving her alive for long, let alone sitting in my towncore.

If Indigo flips wolf, that likely spews the people she dumbly tunneled, including Mewtini. If the game isn't over, my next lynch is locked on Flora.
If Indigo flips villager, that implicates Seshas for her shade.

Tomorrow is potential MyLo, if Flora is town.
With this gamestate, Indigo is really REALLY bad to have in MyLo.

(sorry I couldn't resist)


----------



## IndigoClaudia

Flora is dead.


----------



## IndigoClaudia

It doesn't matter what I say... people will still think I'm mafia. I'm nothing more than a townie, so I have nothing else to say. Trust me, i would tell you if something happened with my role.


----------



## Zori

for context


----------



## Zori

IndigoEmmy said:


> It doesn't matter what I say... people will still think I'm mafia. I'm nothing more than a townie, so I have nothing else to say. Trust me, i would tell you if something happened with my role.


You say you are nothing more than a townie...
and yet
you claimed on D1 you had information given to you in your rolecard
XP XP XP XP XP XP XP XP XP


----------



## IndigoClaudia

I'm a townie with information.


----------



## IndigoClaudia

I'm down with skipping the day by now if everyone else wants that.

I have 2 things to say

Bye peepes
I told you so. @Butterfree can I have permission to say I told you so once after I die?


----------



## Zori

Game's over regardless of how you flip


----------



## IndigoClaudia

it is?


----------



## Zori

IndigoEmmy said:


> it is?


If you're mafia it's over

If you're town, the mafia remaining in [Kyeugh/me/Panini] will kill a townie, leaving 2 people alive
the mafia cannot be voted out then


----------



## Zori

Quiz Time!!!

1. What alignment was the player who made this quote: (Town or Mafia?)


> Regarding John some reads that popped out at me are the bolded, the Jane read feels kind of off? i feel like townie confidence and stuff in a similar vein is always kind of a goto excuse for not reading a slot thats being pretty highly townread and it feels somewhat forced to me, the Jack read isnt particularly ai to me it just doesnt make sense, if *Tom* is wolf why would a wolf copcheck their own buddy? am i missing something mechanically because that feels like a good way to get your buddy lynched


(The bolded red means that Tom was a dead mafia)


----------



## Zori

(just because we're sitting around for 48 more hours doing just about nothing)


----------



## Zori

2. (To be clear, these are from different games, I'm just substituting placeholder names)


> I mean, Jack has literally given up. He is anti spew and not trying to salvage the last bit of his reads. He had a carefree tone the whole day about the John/Jane drama. Which seems impossible for a town to be doing.
> 
> Mia also seemingly didnt care either, but who knows what was going on there.


CONTEXT: John and Jane are two villagers that mechanically thunderdomed eachother earlier that day


----------



## Zori

3. (That's probably enough for tonight)


			
				Jane said:
			
		

> Jack said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Jane said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> usually i would be way more aggressive on pushing a read, but seems like a lot of clueless townies on this site, so im not confident about anything
> 
> 
> 
> What is this?????
> 
> Why post it?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> because you shot a unCCd cop and now are apparently mechanically cleared and that just seems like normal around here
> 
> when villagers make aggressively pro wolf plays, it makes it hard to be confident about reads
Click to expand...


----------



## Zori

4. (I lied OK)


> Mia said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> probably ~1 of the top wagons is scum
> scum are more likely to be bunched up if on the top wagons
> 
> 
> 
> Weird take considering you moved your vote therefore making the wagons 2/2/2/2/2.
Click to expand...

Also, this is a reason I'm not playing this with Mist because he was there and can probably pinpoint the quote


----------



## Zori

I'll probably post the answers in either 12 or 24 hours depending on my mood


----------



## kyeugh

i’m down for hammer if that’s an option


----------



## Zori

kyeugh said:


> i’m down for hammer if that’s an option


appearantly it's not tho

I spent 20 whole minutes of my life on this game and nobody likes it


----------



## Zori

You know what

Here are the answers
You guys can score it in dead chat

1. *Mafia*: _silmarils_ (Mafia, Masons, and the Plague: D2)
2. *Town*: _Abraxas_ (Star Trek Voyager: D3)
3. *Mafia*: _JSmith27_ (Star Trek Voyager: D3)
4. *Mafia*: _Sett_ (Pokemon Invitational: D1)


----------



## Zori

Question 5. What is my favorite color?


----------



## Zori

good music


----------



## Zori

*unvote*

My favorite color

...

is

...

...

*Indigo*

[insert that drum thing you put after bad puns]


----------



## Zori

Serious question 5:



			
				John said:
			
		

> Jane said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> John said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Jack is consensus let's pile votes on pls
> 
> 
> 
> this is a disgusting post
> you do realize there is plurality right
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I don't want some f*** to move the lynch at the last moment
Click to expand...


----------



## Zori

6: 





> Here's my thing on John:
> 
> Not once have I seen them try to push a novel scum read or even a novel town read for that sake.
> He's not trying to direct the flow of conversation or protect / kill anyone.
> 
> He's literally just going along with the flow since he's vocal about agreeing with letting actions sort things out.
> 
> I dont' see scum being complicit there.


----------



## Zori

I was looking through quotes then I saw this:


> Your catchup is kindaaa annoying me. Due to the fact that you are pointing things out already pointed out -_-


----------



## Zori

Seshas said:


> I was looking through quotes then I saw this:
> 
> 
> 
> Your catchup is kindaaa annoying me. Due to the fact that you are pointing things out already pointed out -_-
Click to expand...

Your catchup is annoying me because you are quoting posts that are in the past D:


----------



## Zori

7:


> John said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What I think happened is that we had TvT wagons, and mafia decided to shoot Jane to make Tom look bad and keep him as a target to push
> So I'm very cool with a Mary lynch
> *Mary*
> 
> 
> 
> I'm considering the possibility that the Jane shot was a frame and then i see posts like this from the people defending Tom...
Click to expand...


----------



## Zori

8: (last one for now)


			
				Mia said:
			
		

> John said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mia said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I feel like if the other mafia was on-wagon, then I feel like the Traitor would be confused.
> If the other mafia was off-wagon, I think that the Traitor would more likely than not try to save them.
> 
> So I think the Traitor is more likely to be off wagon, since they have little reason to bus *Tom* D1.
> 
> 
> 
> This makes no sense.
> If they see the other person bussing, they can guess the other Mafia is bussing. If they see the other Mafia off-wagon, they can still bus at a point it is obvious *Tom* cant be saved. They can also do the opposite of what the other scum does to avoid future associations.
> And this sounds like a traitor post: If you stayed off-wagon , you are trying to signal by expressing your feeling at EOD. If you stayed on-wagon, you are discrediting others.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> If *Tom* was bussed, it was needless and poorly executed, and I think that the Traitor would definitely have tried to stop it.
> I do concede that if Jane is *Tom's* scumbuddy, then it is quite possible that Traitor is on-wagon.
Click to expand...

Tom was lynched the previous day, flipping as mafia.


----------



## Zori

reveal in ~18 hours


----------



## Zori

I henceforth declare this page as mine
having 19 of the 20 posts on it

@:kyeugh:


----------



## Zori

I'm also claiming this pagetop tyvm


----------



## Zori

Fun Fact: the people in dead chat desperately want something to react to
by being the only one posting, I can inflate my reaction score very easily


----------



## Zori

ok ok fine
liking my posts is completely optional and not required to achieve any premium status or anything


----------



## Zori

22 more hours until game is over wheeeeeee


----------



## Zori

Seshas said:


> reveal in ~18 hours


10:45 CST so I don't have to recalculate it


----------



## Panini

Down with page monopolies! This too is a post!

Here's my guesses:


Spoiler



5. Town
6. Mafia
7. Mafia
8. Town


Spoiler



But I only got 2/4 on the first one so I'm not exactly adept at these OTL


----------



## Panini

Now everyone can laugh react me when I get 0/4 and then I feel like I've won either way
ha
gaming the system


----------



## Zori

ok
last one


Spoiler: Question 9:






> I can confirm that psychologically, liars tend to do stuff like this. They tend to evade the main question and instead move the discussion to a different route. This is the case here as John tries to specifically move the discussion towards the "rng" part of the post instead of the accusation itself.
> 
> *John*


(I had to do it, ok)


----------



## Zori

Panini said:


> Now everyone can laugh react me when I get 0/4 and then I feel like I've won either way
> ha
> gaming the system


was about to react with laugh but then would have outed answers before reveal


----------



## Zori

(for context, 9 became an inside joke for people who played in that particular game)


----------



## Zori

Answers are coming in!
5: *Town*
_SirCakez_ (Twitch Chat FM, D2)


----------



## Zori

6: *Town*
_ryanyb_ (uPick [SFM71], D2)


----------



## Zori

7: *Town*
_Crimson97_ (To The Stray Dogs, D2)


----------



## Zori

8: *Mafia*
_AlbanixAnubibus_ (Fear of the Predator, D2)


----------



## Zori

The first set of 4 were quotes from MU games.
The second set of 4 were quotes from ToS games.
Therefore, I am rounding it off with a joke quote:

9: *Mafia*
_Varanus_ (Twitch Chat FM, D1)


----------



## Zori

Cool

now, we can start the countdown to game end!

*Game ends in: 00:08:13:20*​


----------



## Zori

6 hours, 54 minutes, 10 seconds


----------



## kyeugh

W


----------



## Zori

H


----------



## Zori

A


----------



## Zori

T


----------



## Zori

?

(darn page breaks)


----------



## Zori

6 hours left!


----------



## Zori

*Jailkeeper*​*Vanilla*​*Role Cop*​*Vanilla*​*1-Shot Strongman*​*Odd Cop*​*Roleblocker*​*Cop*​*Doctor*​*Ninja*​*Vanilla*​*Vanilla*​*Bulletproof*​*1-Shot Strongman*​*Tracker*​*Masons (2)*​*Vanilla*​*1-Shot Strongman*​*1-Shot Strongman*​*Bulletproof*​*Vigilante*​*Bodyguard*​*2-Shot Jailkeeper*​*Vanilla*​*Vanilla*​*Vanilla*​*Jailkeeper*​*1-Shot Strongman*​*Cop (N0)*​*Jailkeeper*​*Vigilante*​*Innocent Child*​*Vanilla*​*Tracker*​*2-Shot Roleblocker*​*Watcher*​
This Matrix12 setup is so asymmetrical my eyes bleed


----------



## Zori

​
*1-Shot Strongman*​*Odd Cop*​*Vanilla*​*Jailkeeper*​*Vanilla*​*Role Cop*​*Vanilla*​*Vanilla*​*Cop*​*Roleblocker*​*Ninja*​*Doctor*​*Vanilla*​*1-Shot Strongman*​*1-Shot Strongman*​*Bulletproof*​*Masons (2)*​*Tracker*​*2-Shot Jailkeeper*​*Vanilla*​*Bulletproof*​*1-Shot Strongman*​*Bodyguard*​*Vigilante*​*Cop (N0)*​*Jailkeeper*​*Vanilla*​*Vanilla*​*1-Shot Strongman*​*Jailkeeper*​*2-Shot Roleblocker*​*Watcher*​*Innocent Child*​*Vigilante*​*Tracker*​*Vanilla*​
​getting there


----------



## Zori

​
*1-Shot Strongman*​*Odd Cop*​*Vanilla*​*Jailkeeper*​*Vanilla*​*Role Cop*​*2-Shot Roleblocker*​*Watcher*​*Innocent Child*​*Vigilante*​*Tracker*​*Vanilla*​*Vanilla*​*1-Shot Strongman*​*1-Shot Strongman*​*Bulletproof*​*Masons (2)*​*Tracker*​*2-Shot Jailkeeper*​*Vanilla*​*Bulletproof*​*1-Shot Strongman*​*Bodyguard*​*Vigilante*​*Vanilla*​*Vanilla*​*Cop*​*Roleblocker*​*Ninja*​*Doctor*​*Cop (N0)*​*Jailkeeper*​*Vanilla*​*Vanilla*​*1-Shot Strongman*​*Jailkeeper*​
​which raises the question
why not just make the matrix like this originally


----------



## Zori

Hey, one diagonal seems sort of balanced?
The other diagonal is _extremely_ balanced


----------



## Zori

The epic diagonal is a 9v8 mountainous, which is extremely balanced

Even better than the diagonal on the original table which is a 15v2 with 2 town vigilantes


----------



## Zori

​
*1-Shot Strongman*​*Odd Cop*​*Vanilla*​*Jailkeeper*​*Vanilla*​*Role Cop*​*2-Shot Roleblocker*​*Watcher*​*Innocent Child*​*Vigilante*​*Tracker*​*Vanilla*​*Vanilla*​*1-Shot Strongman*​*1-Shot Strongman*​*Bulletproof*​*Masons (2)*​*Tracker*​*2-Shot Jailkeeper*​*Vanilla*​*Bulletproof*​*1-Shot Strongman*​*Bodyguard*​*Vigilante*​*Vanilla*​*Vanilla*​*Cop*​*Roleblocker*​*Ninja*​*Doctor*​*Cop (N0)*​*Jailkeeper*​*Vanilla*​*Vanilla*​*1-Shot Strongman*​*Jailkeeper*​

Vanilla Chains:
1E - 1C - 6C - 6D
2F
3A - 5A - 5B - 4B

wait a second


----------



## Zori

​
*2-Shot Roleblocker*​*Watcher*​*Innocent Child*​*Vigilante*​*Tracker*​*Vanilla*​*Vanilla*​*1-Shot Strongman*​*1-Shot Strongman*​*Bulletproof*​*Masons (2)*​*Tracker*​*2-Shot Jailkeeper*​*Vanilla*​*Bulletproof*​*1-Shot Strongman*​*Bodyguard*​*Vigilante*​*Vanilla*​*Vanilla*​*Cop*​*Roleblocker*​*Ninja*​*Doctor*​*Cop (N0)*​*Jailkeeper*​*Vanilla*​*Vanilla*​*1-Shot Strongman*​*Jailkeeper*​*1-Shot Strongman*​*Odd Cop*​*Vanilla*​*Jailkeeper*​*Vanilla*​*Role Cop*​
​niiiiiiceee
help I'm getting emotional over how symmetric this is


----------



## Zori

This fills me with so much joy that I now can appreciate the hidden symmetry in the Matrix12


----------



## Zori

The diagonals are still high quality
if we shift the table 1/2 block up and 1/2 block right and take the diagonal, we get a Cop 17'er with a 15v2 distribution


----------



## Zori

also 3 hours until Emmy's alignment is revealed


----------



## Zori

TL;DR: something, I guess
also 9v8 mountainous


----------



## Zori

Also if you count both Trackers as VTs you can chain all 11 of them
the last spot is taken by a Strongman which sadly cannot be considered a VT


----------



## Zori

full disclosure I don't know how to make matrices
but this has inspired me


----------



## Zori

things get a bit finnicky when you're trying to chain the town PRs because there's sometimes 3 of them in a row
which is confusing


----------



## Zori

I've probably made like 70 posts since game start
which is surprising considering there was nearly nothing of value to discuss


----------



## Zori

Seshas said:


> I've probably made like 70 posts since game start
> which is surprising considering there was nearly nothing of value to discuss


*day start
I hope I've made more than 70 posts since game start


----------



## Zori

I now have a monopoly on page 269
don't forget it


----------



## Zori

Pagetop!


----------



## Zori

I'll promise I'll stop posting at some point in time


----------



## IndigoClaudia

NO DONT


----------



## Zori

IndigoEmmy said:


> NO DONT


I have a monopoly on page monopolies


----------



## Zori

*R W** I V : .*
*. S S B M :
J . B S B V
. . C R N D
C J . . S J
S C . J . C*​Tell me this isn't beautful for a mafia setup


----------



## IndigoClaudia

Guys, theres no doubt it's me at this point. Even though i know i am not mafia.

*IndigoEmmy*

I'm so suspicious that even though i know i am not mafia as a definite fact i'm still voting for me. OUCH.


----------



## IndigoClaudia

Seshas said:


> *unvote*
> 
> My favorite color
> 
> ...
> 
> is
> 
> ...
> 
> ...
> 
> *Indigo*
> 
> [insert that drum thing you put after bad puns]


I'm not sure weather to love or hate this.


----------



## kyeugh

IndigoEmmy said:


> Guys, theres no doubt it's me at this point. Even though i know i am not mafia.
> 
> *IndigoEmmy*
> 
> I'm so suspicious that even though i know i am not mafia as a definite fact i'm still voting for me. OUCH.


----------



## Zori

1 hour 10 minutes until deadchat can yell at us


----------



## Zori

hypehypehypehypehypehyehypeyhepyhepyhphyhephyhpehyehyehy


----------



## Zori

20 seconds


----------



## Zori

ech ovah
whee


----------



## Butterfree

The day is a tortuous wait as *Seshas*, *kyeugh* and *Panini* all agree that the remaining member of the mafia _must_ be *IndigoEmmy*. She maintains her innocence, but who's going to believe her? Of course she'd say that.

At last, they drag her to the gallows. She's been unresponsive for the better part of the day, really. The deed is done.

Her house is adorable and full of cute Pokémon. There is not a suspicious business card in sight.

As *Seshas* blinks at the impossibility of it, *kyeugh* casually pulls out her Death Ray. "Town just got exekyeughted ," she says as she points it at Seshas.

Seshas dies glassy-eyed, frozen, contemplating this top ten anime betrayal.

As Seshas falls to the ground, *Panini* breaks into an ecstatic grin, throwing her arms around kyeugh. "Oh, kyeugh-senpai!" she squeals. "I can't believe we won! Thank you for being my senpai~!"

Instead, kyeugh breaks free of her grip. "Thank you for your help, Ms. Sandwich. But this was strictly business, you understand." She halfheartedly raises the Death Ray again, but then shrugs. "It's just the two of us now. You can go."

The crestfallen Panini falls to her knees. "B-but! All I ever wanted was to be your Stalker-Sandwich-Chan! I thought - I thought!"

"I work alone," says kyeugh, and she walks into the sunset, cape swishing behind her.

Panini sniffles, but gathers herself, drying her tears. She won't let this get her down. After all, she successfully ensured the victory of her beloved kyeugh-senpai - and that's all she wanted.

*IndigoEmmy is dead. She was not mafia.*

*The mafia + Panini (Stalker With A Crush) have won the game!*

*Thank you all for playing! Post with all roles, role PMs and night actions to follow, as well as a postmortem about the original TV Tropes Mafia game and the design of it and this one.*



Spoiler: Full vote history



*Seshas* votes *IndigoEmmy*
*kyeugh* votes *IndigoEmmy*
*Panini* votes *IndigoEmmy*
*Seshas* unvotes
*Seshas* votes *IndigoEmmy*
*IndigoEmmy* votes *IndigoEmmy*





Spoiler: Active votes



*IndigoEmmy* votes *IndigoEmmy*
*Panini* votes *IndigoEmmy*
*Seshas* votes *IndigoEmmy*
*kyeugh* votes *IndigoEmmy*



Vote counts:
*IndigoEmmy* (4) (IndigoEmmy, Panini, Seshas, kyeugh)


----------



## kyeugh




----------



## Mawile

Spoiler: gif


----------



## mewtini

Butterfree said:


> exekyeughted


this is the most fucking accurate flavortext in the world. this is truly in-character, a FUNNY BIT indeed

i need to process the rest of this post but i needed to say that asap


----------



## JackPK

*dabs*


----------



## Butterfree

*ORIGINAL ROLES/PLAYERS*

_Mafia_
Mawile - The Man Behind The Man
Herbe - Big Bad
Flora - The Dragon
kyeugh - Mook
M&F - Mook
JackPK - Deadly Doctor

_Innocents_
Panini - Stalker With A Crush
rari_teh - Private Detective
Ottercopter - Death Seeker
I liek Squirtles - White Mage
Stryke - The Medic
serimachi - Crazy-Prepared
Negrek - Meta Guy
RedneckPhoenix - The Fool
Vipera Magnifica - Willing Channeler
Mr. Ultracool - Body Snatcher
IndigoEmmy - Mysterious Informant
Odie_Pie - Mysterious Informant
Seshas - Mysterious Informant
Eifie - Mysterious Informant
kokorico - Non Action Guy
Keldeo - Non Action Guy

_Third parties_
Mist1422 - Eldritch Abomination
mewtini - Sinister Minister
Boquise - A God Am I


*ROLE PMS*



Spoiler: All role PMs






Spoiler: Mawile (The Man Behind The Man)



You are *The Man Behind The Man*. Your power is *The Chessmaster*. You secretly direct the mafia as the power behind the curtain... but only the Big Bad knows who you are and serves you loyally. Their subordinates may be aware that there's _someone_ directing things behind the scenes, but they're rather unsettled by all this, don't quite like their commander's split loyalties, and would rather like to see you dead. In other words, you've kind of got a Zero Percent Approval Rating.

Your faithful apprentice, the Big Bad, is *Herbe*. You may communicate privately with them, and them alone, at any time throughout the game. If you die, they will lose the game - so it's in their best interest to keep you around.

The mafia subordinates are The Dragon, *Flora* (who will become your next contact should the Big Bad come to an unfortunate end), and the Mooks, *kyeugh* and *M&F*. You are aligned with the mafia. You win when all the innocents are dead.





Spoiler: Herbe (Big Bad)



You are the *Big Bad*. Your power is *Death Ray*; you invented it, you're proud of it, and you're sure going to use it. Every night, you may talk at will with your fellow mafia members and then fire your Death Ray at a chosen target to attempt to kill them. Your subordinates may submit a target for the Death Ray for you, but as you are the one to wield it, if you submit a target yourself that will override all other submissions.

However, you are above all else loyal to The Man Behind The Man, *Mawile*. You know that your subordinates have noticed something's up, and that someone's pulling strings behind the curtains, and unfortunately, you have a strong suspicion that they'd rather see that behind-the-scenes influence gone.

Your subordinates are The Dragon, *Flora* (who will become The Man Behind The Man's next contact should you come to an unfortunate end), and the Mooks, *kyeugh* and *M&F*. You are aligned with the mafia. You win when all the innocents are dead; however, above all else you want to ensure the survival of The Man Behind The Man.





Spoiler: Flora (The Dragon / Big Bad)



You are *The Dragon*. Your power is *Dragon Ascendant*. Every night, you may talk with your fellow mafia members to discuss who to kill in the night. Any mafia member may submit a night action, though the Big Bad's decision, if any, takes precedence. If your superior dies, you will be the one to replace them as the Big Bad.

However, you've become aware of stirrings behind the scenes. There is a Man Behind The Man, and you don't like it. The Big Bad may be more loyal to them than to you. Sure, the mafia comes first, but... all else being equal, it'd give you some real peace of mind if this manipulating influence were to meet an unfortunate end.

Your superior, the Big Bad, is *Herbe*. Your fellow subordinates are the Mooks, *kyeugh* and *M&F*. You are aligned with the mafia. You win when all the innocents are dead; however, you would strongly prefer to also see The Man Behind The Man dead than not.


You are now the *Big Bad*. Your power is *Death Ray*; you may not have invented it, but now that it's yours, you're sure going to use it. Every night, you may talk at will with your fellow mafia members and then fire your Death Ray at a chosen target to attempt to kill them. Your subordinates may submit a target for the Death Ray for you, but as you are the one to wield it, if you submit a target yourself that will override all other submissions.

Your subordinate is now The Dragon, *kyeugh*. You are aligned with the mafia. You win when all the innocents are dead.





Spoiler: kyeugh (Mook / The Dragon / Big Bad)



You are a *Mook*. Your power is *Mook Promotion*. Every night, you may talk with your fellow mafia members to discuss who to kill in the night. Any mafia member may submit a night action, though the Big Bad's decision, if any, takes precedence. If The Dragon dies or is promoted, you may become The Dragon in their place.

However, you've become aware of stirrings behind the scenes. There is a Man Behind The Man, and you don't like it. The Big Bad may be more loyal to them than to you. Sure, the mafia comes first, but... all else being equal, it'd give you some real peace of mind if this manipulating influence were to meet an unfortunate end.

Your superior, the Big Bad, is *Herbe*. Your fellow subordinates are The Dragon, *Flora*, and your fellow Mook, *M&F*. You are aligned with the mafia. You win when all the innocents are dead; however, you would strongly prefer to also see The Man Behind The Man dead than not.


You seem to be the target of a *Stalker With A Crush*. Don't worry - this does not put you in danger, unless they are a very stupid stalker. They have been told of your role and will now be able to see the names and powers of everyone who targets you during the night for the rest of the game. They may send you messages, relayed through the Game Master, at any point during the game, but you cannot privately communicate with them. If you die, so will your stalker, so it is in their best interests to ensure your survival; however, if your stalker dies, you can carry on with the game as usual.


You are now *The Dragon*. Your power is *Dragon Ascendant*. Every night, you may talk with your fellow mafia members to discuss who to kill in the night. Any mafia member may submit a night action, though the Big Bad's decision, if any, takes precedence. If your superior dies, you will be the one to replace them as the Big Bad.

Your superior, the Big Bad, is now *Flora*. You are aligned with the mafia. You win when all the innocents are dead.


You are now the *Big Bad*. Your power is *Death Ray*; you may not have invented it, but now that it's yours, you're sure going to use it. Every night, you may talk at will with your fellow mafia members and then uh, you may fire your Death Ray at a chosen target to attempt to kill them.

Unfortunately you have no subordinates, but that's okay. You can manage. It's just you now and you'll see this through to the end.

You are aligned with the mafia. You win when all the innocents are dead.





Spoiler: M&F (Mook)



You are a *Mook*. Your power is *Mook Promotion*. Every night, you may talk with your fellow mafia members to discuss who to kill in the night. Any mafia member may submit a night action, though the Big Bad's decision, if any, takes precedence. If The Dragon dies or is promoted, you may become The Dragon in their place.

However, you've become aware of stirrings behind the scenes. There is a Man Behind The Man, and you don't like it. The Big Bad may be more loyal to them than to you. Sure, the mafia comes first, but... all else being equal, it'd give you some real peace of mind if this manipulating influence were to meet an unfortunate end.

Your superior, the Big Bad, is *Herbe*. Your fellow subordinates are The Dragon, *Flora*, and your fellow Mook, *kyeugh*. You are aligned with the mafia. You win when all the innocents are dead; however, you would strongly prefer to also see The Man Behind The Man dead than not.





Spoiler: JackPK (Deadly Doctor)



You are a *Deadly Doctor*. Your power is *Magitek*. You know that there are two kinds of doctor in town, one that uses magic and one that uses technology, and that anyone subjected to both kinds of healing at the same time will suffer... unfortunate consequences. Knowing this, having dabbled in both and being on the mafia's payroll, you really hold the power of life and death in your hands, don't you?

Your contact with the mafia is *kyeugh*, but they are extremely secretive and that's about all you know about who the mafia are. All you've been told to do is try to disrupt those pesky healers at the right moments, and you've been given very strict instructions that you can't make contact with them from here.

Every night, you may pick one player and subject them to either Healing Hands or Nanomachines, depending on your choice. Anyone healed with only magic or only machines will be protected from the mafia during the night; anyone healed with both at the same time will die.

You are aligned with the mafia. You win when all the innocents are dead.





Spoiler: Panini (Stalker With A Crush)



You are a *Stalker With A Crush*. Your power is *Exact Eavesdropping*. On the first night, you can choose one person to stalk and will be told of their role. From then on, if this player dies, you will commit suicide in grief. However, at the end of every night, you will be told exactly who targeted them that night and the names of the powers they were targeted with (though not which power goes with what name, if there are multiple). You may not converse privately with your target, but at any point during the game, you may relay any message you like to them through the Game Master, in which you may or may not identify yourself, tell them of your eavesdropping results, or whatever else you would like.

You are aligned with the innocents. You win if you and your target survive to the end of the game or are at any point the only two players left alive, regardless of alignment; failing that, you would rather the innocents win than not.


kyeugh is a *Mook* with the power of *Mook Promotion*. They have been notified of the stalking (but not of your identity). You may now PM the Game Master any message you would like to privately relay to them at any point during the game.

The results of your eavesdropping will be sent to you at the end of the night.





Spoiler: rari_teh (Private Detective / Body Snatcher / Death Seeker)



You are a *PrivateDetective*. Your power is *Stalking Mission*. Every night, you may choose someone to track down and investigate whether they are mafia or not mafia - though some special roles may give you a misleading result.

You are aligned with the innocents. You win when all the mafia killing roles are dead.


You are now a *Body Snatcher*. Your power is *Grand Theft Me*. During the day, you may quote another player's post and, anywhere within the text of your post following the quote, include the phrase "_It's not you, it's me_". If you do this successfully, you will swap roles with that player after that day. (Some roles are unswappable, and other powers may prevent you from successfully executing yours; if you fail to execute the swap, you will only be told that the swap failed, but not why.)

You are aligned with the innocents. However, you will *always lose the game* if this is still your role by the end of the game. Make haste and swap!


You are now a *Death Seeker*. Your power is *Thanatos Gambit*. Your death will be just the beginning, if only somebody would just kill you already.

You are aligned with the innocents. You win if you are killed _by the mafia_ and an innocent win is subsequently achieved; however, you would rather have an innocent win while remaining alive or getting killed by somebody else than let the mafia win.





Spoiler: Ottercopter (Death Seeker / Body Snatcher / Mysterious Informant)



You are a *Death Seeker*. Your power is *Thanatos Gambit*. Your death will be just the beginning, if only somebody would just kill you already.

You are aligned with the innocents. You win if you are killed _by the mafia_ and an innocent win is subsequently achieved; however, you would rather have an innocent win while remaining alive or getting killed by somebody else than let the mafia win.


You are now a *Body Snatcher*. Your power is *Grand Theft Me*. During the day, you may quote another player's post and, anywhere within the text of your post following the quote, include the phrase "_It's not you, it's me_". If you do this successfully, you will swap roles with that player after that day. (Some roles are unswappable, and other powers may prevent you from successfully executing yours; if you fail to execute the swap, you will only be told that the swap failed, but not why.)

You are aligned with the innocents. However, you will *always lose the game* if this is still your role by the end of the game. Make haste and swap!


You are now a *Mysterious Informant*. Your power is *Expospeak*. You don't do much, really - but you hang around in all sorts of places and know the talk of the town, and it just might be of use to somebody. In particular, you've heard whispers that the mafia's got someone pulling the strings behind the curtain...

Maybe you should tell people? Or you can keep it to yourself. Have to exercise some judgement in a situation like this.

You are aligned with the innocents. You win when all the mafia killing roles are dead.





Spoiler: I liek Squirtles (White Mage)



You are a *White Mage*. Your power is *Healing Hands*. Every night, you may choose to heal any player other than yourself. That player is then safe from mafia killings during the night. However, your healing magic doesn't get along well with modern technology, and if some idiot has injected something like nanomachines into your target's bloodstream beforehand, well...

You are aligned with the innocents. You win when all the mafia killing roles are dead.





Spoiler: Stryke (The Medic)



You are *The Medic*. Your power is *Nanomachines*. Every night, you may choose to heal any player other than yourself. That player is then safe from mafia killings during the night. However, that silly pseudoscientific 'healing magic' you've heard about tends to be rather disruptive of delicate technology like your reconstructive nanomachines, so if some silly mage should come around after you and start chanting spells or something... that could be bad.

You are aligned with the innocents. You win when all the mafia killing roles are dead.





Spoiler: serimachi (Crazy-Prepared / Body Snatcher)



You are *Crazy-Prepared*. Your power is *Bulletproof Vest*. You're just a normal guy going about your daily business, except you always do it wearing Kevlar, just in case. The recent surge of deaths only makes you feel more vindicated about it: there's no way the mafia will ever shoot you with _this_! (Well, okay, so maybe you've only got the one, and it's not going to protect you after the first hit, and it's only going to protect you against the mafia, but hey, who cares?)

You are aligned with the innocents. You win when all the mafia killing roles are dead.


You are now a *Body Snatcher*. Your power is *Grand Theft Me*. During the day, you may quote another player's post and, anywhere within the text of your post following the quote, include the phrase "_It's not you, it's me_". If you do this successfully, you will swap roles with that player after that day. (Some roles are unswappable, and other powers may prevent you from successfully executing yours; if you fail to execute the swap, you will only be told that the swap failed, but not why.)

You are aligned with the innocents. However, you will *always lose the game* if this is still your role by the end of the game. Make haste and swap!





Spoiler: Negrek (Meta Guy)



You are a *Meta Guy*. Your power is *Genre Savvy*. Whenever a player dies, you will be told their role trope. What to do with that information, you ask? Well, you'll have to figure that out for yourself.

You are aligned with the innocents. You win when all the mafia killing roles are dead.





Spoiler: RedneckPhoenix (The Fool)



You are *The Fool*. Your power is *Spanner In The Works*. Somehow, whenever you encounter somebody, you seem to inexplicably screw up all their plans. You're starting to realize this can actually be of some use if you employ it right. The one you target during the night will have their power nullified that night and the following day.

You are aligned with the innocents. You win when all the mafia killing roles are dead.





Spoiler: Vipera Magnifica (Willing Channeler / Deadly Doctor)



You are a *Willing Channeler*. Your power is *Powers Via Possession*. The first time a non-mafia player dies in the game, you will take on their role and power as the next night phase begins.

You are aligned with the innocents. You win when all the mafia killing roles are dead. (However, when you channel someone, your win condition may change.)


You are now a *Deadly Doctor*. Your power is *Magitek*. You know that there are two kinds of doctor in town, one that uses magic and one that uses technology, and that anyone subjected to both kinds of healing at the same time will suffer... unfortunate consequences. Knowing this, having dabbled in both and being on the mafia's payroll, you really hold the power of life and death in your hands, don't you?

Your contact with the mafia is *kyeugh*, but they are extremely secretive and that's about all you know about who the mafia are. All you've been told to do is try to disrupt those pesky healers at the right moments, and you've been given very strict instructions that you can't make contact with them from here.

Every night, you may pick one player and subject them to either Healing Hands or Nanomachines, depending on your choice. Anyone healed with only magic or only machines will be protected from the mafia during the night; anyone healed with both at the same time will die.

You are aligned with the mafia. You win when all the innocents are dead.





Spoiler: Mr. Ultracool (Body Snatcher / Mysterious Informant)



You are a *Body Snatcher*. Your power is *Grand Theft Me*. During the day, you may quote another player's post and, anywhere within the text of your post following the quote, include the phrase "_It's not you, it's me_". If you do this successfully, you will swap roles with that player after that day. (Some roles are unswappable, and other powers may prevent you from successfully executing yours; if you fail to execute the swap, you will only be told that the swap failed, but not why.)

You are aligned with the innocents. However, you will *always lose the game* if this is still your role by the end of the game. Make haste and swap!


You are now a *Mysterious Informant*. Your power is *Expospeak*. You don't do much, really - but you hang around in all sorts of places and know the talk of the town, and it just might be of use to somebody. In particular, you've heard there's this shady doctor around, funded by some really seedy sources; better watch out.

Maybe you should tell people? Or you can keep it to yourself. Have to exercise some judgement in a situation like this.

You are aligned with the innocents. You win when all the mafia killing roles are dead.





Spoiler: IndigoEmmy (Mysterious Informant)



You are a *Mysterious Informant*. Your power is *Expospeak*. You don't do much, really - but you hang around in all sorts of places and know the talk of the town, and it just might be of use to somebody. In particular, you've heard there are two kinds of doctors in town, a mumbo-jumbo magic healer and a sci-fi guy with some fancy Nanomachines. Supposedly the two groups don't get along.

Maybe you should tell people? Or you can keep it to yourself. Have to exercise some judgement in a situation like this.

You are aligned with the innocents. You win when all the mafia killing roles are dead.





Spoiler: Odie_Pie (Mysterious Informant)



You are a *Mysterious Informant*. Your power is *Expospeak*. You don't do much, really - but you hang around in all sorts of places and know the talk of the town, and it just might be of use to somebody. In particular, you've heard it might be dangerous to reveal your true name in this town. You never know who might be able to make use of it.

Maybe you should tell people? Or you can keep it to yourself. Have to exercise some judgement in a situation like this.

You are aligned with the innocents. You win when all the mafia killing roles are dead.





Spoiler: Seshas (Mysterious Informant / Body Snatcher / Crazy-Prepared)



You are a *Mysterious Informant*. Your power is *Expospeak*. You don't do much, really - but you hang around in all sorts of places and know the talk of the town, and it just might be of use to somebody. In particular, you've heard whispers that the mafia's got someone pulling the strings behind the curtain...

Maybe you should tell people? Or you can keep it to yourself. Have to exercise some judgement in a situation like this.

You are aligned with the innocents. You win when all the mafia killing roles are dead.


You are now a *Body Snatcher*. Your power is *Grand Theft Me*. During the day, you may quote another player's post and, anywhere within the text of your post following the quote, include the phrase "_It's not you, it's me_". If you do this successfully, you will swap roles with that player after that day. (Some roles are unswappable, and other powers may prevent you from successfully executing yours; if you fail to execute the swap, you will only be told that the swap failed, but not why.)

You are aligned with the innocents. However, you will *always lose the game* if this is still your role by the end of the game. Make haste and swap!


You are now *Crazy-Prepared*. Your power is *Bulletproof Vest*. You're just a normal guy going about your daily business, except you always do it wearing Kevlar, just in case. Unfortunately, somebody already put a bullet in it, and you can't rely on the protection of a damaged vest. You fear it may be useless now.

You are aligned with the innocents. You win when all the mafia killing roles are dead.





Spoiler: Eifie (Mysterious Informant / Body Snatcher / Non Action Guy / Vigilante Man)



You are a *Mysterious Informant*. Your power is *Expospeak*. You don't do much, really - but you hang around in all sorts of places and know the talk of the town, and it just might be of use to somebody. In particular, you've heard there's this shady doctor around, funded by some really seedy sources; better watch out.

Maybe you should tell people? Or you can keep it to yourself. Have to exercise some judgement in a situation like this.

You are aligned with the innocents. You win when all the mafia killing roles are dead.


You are now a *Body Snatcher*. Your power is *Grand Theft Me*. During the day, you may quote another player's post and, anywhere within the text of your post following the quote, include the phrase "_It's not you, it's me_". If you do this successfully, you will swap roles with that player after that day. (Some roles are unswappable, and other powers may prevent you from successfully executing yours; if you fail to execute the swap, you will only be told that the swap failed, but not why.)

You are aligned with the innocents. However, you will *always lose the game* if this is still your role by the end of the game. Make haste and swap!


You are now a *Non Action Guy*. Your power is *What Kind Of Lame Power Is Heart Anyway?* You don't do anything special, but you can give moral support in these trying times - and, of course, try to help the town flush out the mafia.

You are aligned with the innocents. You win when all the mafia killing roles are dead.


You just *Took A Level In Badass*! You are now a *Vigilante Man*. Your power is *Vigilante Execution*. Sometimes you just have to take matters into your own hands. Every night, you may optionally attempt to kill one player of your choosing.

You are aligned with the innocents. You win when all the mafia killing roles are dead.





Spoiler: kokorico (Non Action Guy / Western Terrorist)



You are a *Non Action Guy*. Your power is *What Kind Of Lame Power Is Heart Anyway?* You don't do anything special, but you can give moral support in these trying times - and, of course, try to help the town flush out the mafia.

You are aligned with the innocents. You win when all the mafia killing roles are dead.


You have just had a *Face Heel Turn*. You are now a *Western Terrorist*. Your power is *Suicide Attack*. The mafia kind of have a point, really, don't they? This horrible town of lynch mobs killing doctors and the catatonic deserves what it's getting. And frankly, you're starting to think you'd be willing to do _anything_ to teach Troperville a real lesson.

Any any point during a day discussion, you may blow yourself up along with a player of your choice, killing both of you. To do this, you need to post the following message in the thread, in bold: "*Bomb [username].*"

You are aligned with the mafia, but do not know who they are. You win if the mafia wins and you survive until the end of the game, but you prefer a mafia win with you dying to a mafia loss.





Spoiler: Keldeo (Non Action Guy / Body Snatcher / Private Detective)



You are a *Non Action Guy*. Your power is *What Kind Of Lame Power Is Heart Anyway?* You don't do anything special, but you can give moral support in these trying times - and, of course, try to help the town flush out the mafia.

You are aligned with the innocents. You win when all the mafia killing roles are dead.


You are now a *Body Snatcher*. Your power is *Grand Theft Me*. During the day, you may quote another player's post and, anywhere within the text of your post following the quote, include the phrase "_It's not you, it's me_". If you do this successfully, you will swap roles with that player after that day. (Some roles are unswappable, and other powers may prevent you from successfully executing yours; if you fail to execute the swap, you will only be told that the swap failed, but not why.)

You are aligned with the innocents. However, you will *always lose the game* if this is still your role by the end of the game. Make haste and swap!


You are a *PrivateDetective*. Your power is *Stalking Mission*. Every night, you may choose someone to track down and investigate whether they are mafia or not mafia - though some special roles may give you a misleading result.

You are aligned with the innocents. You win when all the mafia killing roles are dead.





Spoiler: Mist1422 (Eldritch Abomination)



You are an *Eldritch Abomination*. Your power is *Sealed Evil In A Can*. For the moment, you slumber deep in the body of an apparently normal human - but should the mafia make an attempt on their life, the seal will be broken, and you will awaken from your cosmic slumber. And after that, well, you'd only need a small excuse to wipe out this puny race of Earthlings who always seem to be trying to kill you.

You are a third-party alignment. You will immediately win the game if the players vote to lynch you at any point after you have been awakened.





Spoiler: mewtini (Sinister Minister)



You are a *Sinister Minister*. Your power is *Religion Of Evil*. You have discovered the One True God; so what if he's a little omnicidal? All you can hope for is that your undying support and devotion will grant you a place in some slightly less tortuous afterlife than everybody else's.

You are aligned with the Eldritch Abomination, *Mist1422*, but may not communicate with them. You will win if the Eldritch Abomination wins, regardless of whether you live or die. The Eldritch Abomination will win if they are first targeted by the mafia in the night and then later voted to be lynched during the day.





Spoiler: Boquise (A God Am I)



You are *A God Am I*. Your power is *I Know Your True Name*. You have no night action. However, at any point during the game, including after you have died, you may PM the Game Master to _guess the role AND power trope of *every* living player_. You may attempt this three times over the course of the game; if you get any wrong, I will tell you how many.

You are a third-party alignment. You will immediately win the game if you successfully guess every living player's role and power tropes; otherwise, you lose.


You are now dead, but fear not! With your awesome power, you can still win from beyond the grave. Might make it a little harder to learn tropes, but you'd never let that stop you; you are a god, after all.


Although you have been invited to graveyard chat, please avoid discussing the details of your role or the fact you can still win.







*GAME LOG*



Spoiler: All night/day actions



N0 night actions:
Herbe (Big Bad) targets JackPK.
I liek Squirtles (White Mage) heals Eifie.
Stryke (The Medic) heals Herbe.
JackPK (Deadly Doctor) abstains.
rari_teh (Private Detective) inspects Mr. Ultracool (not mafia).
RedneckPhoenix (The Fool) blocks I liek Squirtles.
Panini (Stalker With A Crush) stalks kyeugh.

JackPK (Deadly Doctor) dies (not mafia).

D1:
Mr. Ultracool (Body Snatcher) targets Eifie (Mysterious Informant) for swapping.
Mr. Ultracool (Body Snatcher) targets Seshas (Mysterious Informant) for swapping.
Mr. Ultracool (Body Snatcher) targets Eifie (Mysterious Informant) for swapping.

I liek Squirtles (White Mage) is lynched (not mafia).

Mr. Ultracool (Body Snatcher) and Eifie (Mysterious Informant) swap roles.
Vipera Magnifica (Willing Channeler) channels JackPK (Deadly Doctor).


N1 night actions:
Herbe (Big Bad) targets Boquise.
Stryke (The Medic) heals Vipera Magnifica.
Vipera Magnifica (Deadly Doctor) heals Negrek with Healing Hands.
rari_teh (Private Detective) inspects Mawile (mafia).
RedneckPhoenix (The Fool) blocks kyeugh.

Panini (Stalker With A Crush) learns kyeugh was targeted with Spanner In The Works by RedneckPhoenix.

Boquise (A God Am I) dies (not mafia).


D2:
Eifie (Body Snatcher) targets Keldeo (Non Action Guy) for swapping.

Odie_Pie (Mysterious Informant) is lynched (not mafia).

Eifie (Body Snatcher) and Keldeo (Non Action Guy) swap roles.
Eifie (Non Action Guy) Takes A Level In Badass and becomes a Vigilante Man.
kokorico (Non Action Guy) has a Face-Heel Turn and becomes a Western Terrorist.


N2 night actions:
Eifie (Vigilante Man) targets serimachi (Crazy-Prepared).
rari_teh (Private Detective) inspects M&F (mafia).
Herbe (Big Bad) targets Eifie (Vigilante Man).
Vipera Magnifica (Deadly Doctor) heals kyeugh (Mook) with Nanomachines.
Stryke (The Medic) targets Eifie (Vigilante Man).
RedneckPhoenix (The Fool) blocks Stryke (The Medic).

Panini (Stalker With A Crush) learns kyeugh was targeted with Nanomachines by Vipera Magnifica.

Eifie (Vigilante Man) dies (not mafia).


D3:
Keldeo (Body Snatcher) targets rari_teh (Private Detective) for swapping.

Mawile (The Man Behind The Man) is lynched (mafia).

Keldeo (Body Snatcher) and rari_teh (Private Detective) swap roles.


N3 night actions:
Keldeo (Private Detective) inspects Panini (not mafia).
RedneckPhoenix (The Fool) blocks Stryke (The Medic).
Vipera Magnifica (Deadly Doctor) heals kokorico (Western Terrorist) with Healing Hands.
Stryke (The Medic) heals kokorico (Western Terrorist) with Nanomachines.
Herbe (Big Bad) targets Negrek (Meta Guy).

Negrek (Meta Guy) dies (not mafia).


D4:
rari_teh (Body Snatcher) targets Ottercopter (Death Seeker) for swapping.

RedneckPhoenix (The Fool) is lynched (not mafia).

rari_teh (Body Snatcher) and Ottercopter (Death Seeker) swap roles.


N4 night actions:
Keldeo (Private Detective) inspects Flora (mafia).
Vipera Magnifica (Deadly Doctor) heals Stryke (The Medic) with Nanomachines.
Herbe (Big Bad) targets rari_teh (Death Seeker).
Stryke (The Medic) heals M&F (Mook) with Nanomachines.

rari_teh (Death Seeker) dies (not mafia).


D5:
kokorico (Western Terrorist) bombs Keldeo (Private Detective).
Ottercopter (Body Snatcher) targets kyeugh (Mook) for swapping.

M&F (Mook) is lynched (mafia).

The swap fails.


N5 night actions:
Vipera Magnifica (Deadly Doctor) heals Ottercopter (Body Snatcher) with Healing Hands.
Herbe (Big Bad) targets Stryke (The Medic).
Stryke (The Medic) heals mewtini (Sinister Minister).

Stryke (The Medic) dies (not mafia).


D6:
Ottercopter (Body Snatcher) targets Vipera Magnifica (Deadly Doctor) for swapping.

Mist1422 (Eldritch Abomination) is lynched (not mafia).

The swap fails.


N6 night actions:
Vipera Magnifica (Deadly Doctor) heals kyeugh (Mook) with Healing Hands.
Herbe (Big Bad) targets Vipera Magnifica (Deadly Doctor).

Panini (Stalker With A Crush) learns kyeugh was targeted with Healing Hands by Vipera Magnifica.

Vipera Magnifica (Deadly Doctor) dies (not mafia).


D7:
Ottercopter (Body Snatcher) targets Seshas (Mysterious Informant) for switching.

Herbe (Big Bad) is lynched (mafia).

Ottercopter (Body Snatcher) and Seshas (Mysterious Informant) swap roles.
Flora (The Dragon) is promoted to Big Bad.
kyeugh (Mook) is promoted to The Dragon.


N7 night actions:
Flora (Big Bad) targets Mr. Ultracool (Mysterious Informant).

Mr. Ultracool (Mysterious Informant) dies (not mafia).


D8:
Seshas (Body Snatcher) targets serimachi (Crazy Prepared) for switching.

Flora (Big Bad) is lynched (mafia).

Seshas (Body Snatcher) and serimachi (Crazy Prepared) swap roles.
kyeugh (The Dragon) is promoted to Big Bad.


N8 night actions:
kyeugh (Big Bad) targets serimachi (Body Snatcher).

serimachi (Body Snatcher) dies (not mafia).


D9:
mewtini (Sinister Minister) is lynched (not mafia).


N9 night actions:
kyeugh (Big Bad) targets Ottercopter (Mysterious Informant).

Ottercopter (Mysterious Informant) dies (not mafia).


D10:
IndigoEmmy (Mysterious Informant) is lynched (not mafia).

Mafia and Stalker With A Crush win!



The postmortem post is not finished and will be posted later. In the meantime, I'll invite the still-living players to graveyard chat.


----------



## Panini

finger-guns


----------



## mewtini

mewtini said:


> bro poor emmy.





Eifie said:


> poor Seshas


.


----------



## Mawile

Mawile said:


> thank you seshas for helping to further the cause of the mafia


----------



## qenya

so THAT was boq's role

did he win in the end?


----------



## mewtini

Mawile said:


> Mawile said:
> 
> 
> 
> thank you seshas for helping to further the cause of the mafia
Click to expand...




Mawile said:


> congratulations mewtini you are honorary mafia for wolfsiding super hard


ugh twinning


----------



## qenya

also, seshas, if it makes you feel better, I scored 1/9 on your quiz


----------



## Eifie

@Seshas worked really hard and I have nothing but respect for them. gg man. you were stuck in a really impossible situation there.


----------



## mewtini

yeah fr! you were so awesome hahahah. the real goat for sure


----------



## rari_teh

now I gotta say, qva 100% deserved this win. she played >everybody< like a fiddle iirc. well played. I can only hope we roll the same alignment in Cats (2019)


----------



## mewtini

she did deserve this win. but it doesn't mean i forgive her >:(

also same of herbe tbhtbhtbh (i'm obligated to say that because i got absolutely BLINDSIDED)


----------



## rari_teh

also it was an honour to have my first mafia game with you guys <3 I couldn’t have hoped for a better group :)


----------



## qenya

rari_teh said:


> now I gotta say, qva 100% deserved this win. she played >everybody< like a fiddle iirc. well played. I can only hope we roll the same alignment in Cats (2019)


hell it's seshas I'm most worried about. I think they would have figured it out if they hadn't been misled by how many mafia-aligned people flipped non-mafia for one reason or another. seriously it's crazy:

- me
- Jack
- VM
- Panini

that's nearly as many as the _full_ mafia

I guess me flipping non-mafia after very obviously exploding was sort of a hint that such people definitely existed. and a lot of it is random chance (VM happened to channel Jack, Panini happened to target mafia on N0, etc). but still. very tricky for anyone trying to work mostly off mechanics


----------



## mewtini

yeah right?! my emotional postgame ramble is coming to a thread near you ... very near ... maybe even this one,


----------



## mewtini

(above post was in response to rari! sorry, should have quoted..... forgot about the thrill of fast-moving threads)


----------



## Novae

tfw you plan on being the hypercarry then mech outing yourself but eifie emmy and seshas make you fail step one


----------



## mewtini

yeah i think the mist/mewt alliance is not one that should be discussed ever again. and yes, i am intentionally disregarding that it was a very one-way failure street


----------



## Keldeo

Good game, everyone, and congrats mafia! Thanks to everyone for keeping this fun and active, this was an awesome forum revival mafia revival. 

Huge shoutout to all the villagers putting in effort to try and solve this one to the very end! I see you. Working through a game with this much mechanical stuff going on is really hard, and I applaud how far we managed to get with the mafia being as on the ball as they were. 

Also shoutout to everyone who played along with the day swapping shenanigans. It's not me, it's you!


----------



## Keldeo

Keldeo said:


> It's not me, it's you!


Oh dammit.


----------



## Zori

hell
I knew Vipera was mafia
Vindication Station does not stop here


----------



## Mawile

Keldeo said:


> Mawile said:
> 
> 
> 
> graveyard chat is now "trying to telepathically communicate with seshas" chat
Click to expand...


----------



## Zori

I like
would have lynched kyeugh there 100000% over mewtini


----------



## mewtini

mewtini said:


>


----------



## Zori

The lynches I feel absolutely horrible for not trying to stop more were RNP and Mewtini
you didn't deserve it 

also iirc Mewtini's wagon was entirely mafia


----------



## mewtini

Seshas said:


> I like
> would have lynched kyeugh there 100000% over mewtini


seshas i sincerely thank you for your trust in me tbh. i'm sorry i could not do more in return. i was KICKING MYSELF SO HARD for not saying something about kyeugh w my dying breath because i thought i was just being overly paranoid :|


----------



## Zori

Seshas said:


> The lynches I feel absolutely horrible for not trying to stop more were RNP and Mewtini
> you didn't deserve it
> 
> also iirc Mewtini's wagon was entirely mafia


although kyeugh still would have won if we lynched emmy
gg there


----------



## Zori

I think Panini sealed the deal here
like, I could have gotten to kyeugh maybe?
but I trusted them because they were never ingroup :P


----------



## Panini

yeah, I totally have more words to say about this and might write them up later but seriously big GGs to everyone!!!!
I for one am extremely lucky to have had the privilege of riding on kyeugh's very talented and wily coattails! The town also played a really great game and things were very close! I totally second respect for Seshas' effort and I was also really impressed with mewtini's ability to project town - I would never have guessed you were 3P up until you had said so! The vibes were super strong.


----------



## mewtini

mewtini said:


> yeah right?! my emotional postgame ramble is coming to a thread near you ... very near ... maybe even this one,


incoming :) this is about to be mildly embarrassing.

so, um, i've talked about this with a few of y'all, but ... this was a really important game to me!! those who know me from past years & have seen my dramatic exits and re-entrances know that i have a really huge soft spot for these forums; when they started dying down, it made me so genuinely sad to think that i'd never get a chance to hang out with you guys again. like, not to be lame, but being a member of The Cave of Dragonflies forums was probably one of the most important parts of my childhood. haha!

seriously - for lack of a better phrase, it's just such a dream come true to get to play a game of mafia with all of these people who - regardless of whether or not we talked in 2011, '12, '15, etc - were/are a big part of who i am and who i always wondered/worried about over the years. and at the same time i got to meet so many cool new friends!

it is so pleasantly surreal that, NINE years after first meeting some of you, we're back here again just. vibing. so thanks to everyone for making this such a fun game, thank you butterfree for hosting!!!, and um ... yeah! cats (2019) wooooo!


----------



## mewtini

Panini said:


> I was also really impressed with mewtini's ability to project town - I would never have guessed you were 3P up until you had said so! The vibes were super strong.


ty! it's easy when you get scared of your 3p role and decide "so ... i'm just going to be town now" on d1!


----------



## Zori

Game thoughts:
Despite all my powervillager fantasies, kyeugh played really well, filling in the supporting-town-leader role perfectly. Panini played well, making themselves fairly obviously not in-group.

kyeugh deserves the win. 

RedneckPhoenix lynch hurt, bad. The mewtini lynch was technically the game-deciding one (and I voted correctly, wheeeeeee), but by that point, kyeugh had the Emmy lynch set in stone. We were already in game-over.

M&F should always have been lynched there. Period.
As a roleblocker, RNP's choices were strange? Yes. Strange enough that Mafia wouldn't openly claim them.
I feel like RNP could have mechanically resolved if we game them another day.
M&F was outed scum.

I kicked myself all through the night for not stopping that lynch.

On a different note, I think me and otter could have cracked the game open if Vipera actually flipped mafia :P
I thought it would be too bizarre to have 3 outgroup mafia in a game, so I didn't even consider it. That's on me.
Things would have gone a lot differently if we realized Otter's failed swaps for what they were: redchecks.

That's all my thoughts for now, I might have more later


----------



## Butterfree

*TV TROPES MAFIA: THE POSTMORTEM*

The original TV Tropes Mafia was by far the largest game ever played on the forums with fifty players, which started November 16th 2010 and died in January 2011 without ever concluding, as players fell behind and failed to send in night actions. Below, you can read all of the game's role PMs as prepared before the game, as well as the file where I kept track of what happened during the game.



Spoiler: Original TV Tropes Mafia role PMs



You are the *Big Bad*. Your power is *Death Ray*. I mean, you invented that ray; what _else_ are you going to do with it? Every night, you may talk at will with your subordinates and then fire your Death Ray at a chosen target to attempt to kill them. Your subordinates may submit a target for the Death Ray for you, but as you are the one to wield it, if you submit a target yourself that will override all other submissions.

Your subordinates are [subordinates]. You are aligned with the mafia. You win when all the innocents are dead.


You are *The Dragon*. Your power is *Dragon Ascendant*. Every night you may talk with your fellow mafia members to discuss who to kill. Any mafia member may submit a night action, though the Big Bad's decision, if any, takes precedence. If your superior dies, you will be the one to replace him as the Big Bad.

Your superior is [Big Bad]. Your fellow subordinates are [subordinates]. You are aligned with the mafia. You win when all the innocents are dead.


You are *The Starscream*. Your power is *Chronic Backstabbing Disorder*. Every night you may talk with your fellow mafia members to discuss who to kill. However, secretly you harbor a desire to kill your superior and replace him. This can be done in two ways: first, you can rally the mob to get them lynched during the day, and second, on any night during the game, you may choose to sneak in and kill your superior before he carries out the mafia's night killing, skipping this night action. If you do manage to get them killed (note that to be considered the one who "got them lynched", you need to cast the _first_ vote for them on that day), you will succeed him as the Big Bad.

Your superior is [Big Bad]. Your fellow subordinates are [subordinates]. You are aligned with the mafia. You win if you become Big Bad (by getting a prior Big Bad killed), subsequently ensure a mafia win _and_ survive to the end of the game. Barring this, your foremost goal is ensuring a mafia win regardless of anything else, followed by becoming Big Bad, followed by survival to the end of the game; that is, as far as you're concerned, the possible outcomes from best to worst are:

- the mafia wins, you become Big Bad, you survive
- the mafia wins, you become Big Bad, but die sometime after that happens
- the mafia wins, but you never become Big Bad
- the mafia loses


You are a *Back Alley Doctor*. Your power is *Magitek*. You know that there are two kinds of doctor in town, one that uses magic and one that uses technology, and that anyone subjected to both kinds of healing at the same time will suffer... unfortunate consequences. Knowing this, having dabbled in both and being on the mafia's payroll, you really hold the power of life and death in your hands, don't you? Every night, you can talk with your fellow mafia members to discuss who to kill, but additionally you may pick one player and subject them to either Healing Hands or Nanomachines, depending on your choice. Anyone healed with only magic or only machines will be protected from the mafia during the night; anyone healed with both at the same time will die.

Your superior is [Big Bad]. Your fellow subordinates are [subordinates]. You are aligned with the mafia. You win when all the innocents are dead.


You are an *Evil Minion*. Your power is *Mook Promotion*. Every night you may talk with your fellow mafia members to discuss who to kill. If The Dragon dies or is promoted, you may become The Dragon in his place.

Your superior is [Big Bad]. Your fellow subordinates are [subordinates]. You are aligned with the mafia. You win when all the innocents are dead.


You are a *Minion With An F In Evil*. Your power is *Mook Face Turn*. Every night you may talk to your fellow mafia members to discuss who to kill, but honestly, deep down you're not into all this killing stuff. Wouldn't it be best, really, if the innocents just won after all? Not that you'd ever say this out loud; I mean, the mafia are a scary bunch.

Your superior is [Big Bad]. Your fellow subordinates are [subordinates]. You are aligned with the innocents. You win when all the mafia killing roles are dead. However, you are too afraid of the mafia to name or otherwise indicate the identity of any of your fellow mafia members in the day discussion thread. If you were to do that, the mafia would just go on a rampage, kill everyone and win the game immediately. You don't want that. All you can do is try to subtly steer the mafia in the wrong direction, in the hope that the innocents will take care of them for you.


You are a *Stalker With A Crush*. Your power is *Exact Eavesdropping*. On the first night, you can choose one person to stalk and will be told of their role. From then on, if this player dies, you will commit suicide in grief. However, at the end of every night, you will be told exactly who targeted them that night and the names of the powers they were targeted with (though not which power goes with what name, if there are multiple). You may not converse privately with your target, but at any point during the game, you may relay any message you like to them through the Game Master, in which you may or may not identify yourself, tell them of your eavesdropping results, or whatever else you would like.

You are aligned with the innocents. You win if you and your target survive to the end of the game or are at any point the only two players left alive, regardless of alignment; failing that, you would rather the innocents win than not.


[You seem to be the target of a *Stalker With A Crush*. Don't worry - this does not put you in danger, unless they are a very stupid stalker. They have been told of your role and will now be able to see the names and powers of everyone who targets you during the night. They may send you messages, relayed through the Game Master, at any point during the game. If you die, so will your stalker, so it is in their best interests to ensure your survival; however, if your stalker dies, you can carry on with the game as usual.]


You are an *Intrepid Reporter*. Your power is *Amateur Sleuth*. Every night, you may choose someone to investigate and will be told whether they are mafia or not mafia. Mafia-aligned roles that do not need to be killed in order for an innocent win to be achieved may be shown as not mafia, while special non-mafia roles may be shown as mafia.

You are aligned with the innocents. You win when all the mafia killing roles are dead.


You are *Inspector Lestrade*. Your power is *Police Are Useless*. Every night, you may choose someone to investigate and get an answer of "mafia" or "not mafia". That said, well, you aren't exactly Sherlock Holmes. Perhaps you should think twice about what the answers you receive actually mean, or if they even mean anything at all.

You are aligned with the innocents. You win when all the mafia killing roles are dead.


You are a *Death Seeker*. Your power is *Thanatos Gambit*. Your death will be just the beginning, if only somebody would just kill you already.

You are aligned with the innocents. You win if you are killed _by the mafia_ and an innocent win is subsequently achieved; however, you would rather have an innocent win while remaining alive or getting killed by somebody else than let the mafia win.


You are an *Eldritch Abomination*. Your power is *Omnicidal Maniac*. If you are targeted by the mafia during the night, you will awaken from your cosmic slumber and become activated; from there, you only need a small excuse to wipe out this puny race of Earthlings who always seem to be trying to kill you.

You are a third-party alignment. You win the game if the players vote to lynch you at some point after you have been activated.


You are *The Fundamentalist*. Your power is *Religion Of Evil*. You have discovered the One True God; so what if he's a little omnicidal? All you can hope for is that your support will grant you a place in some slightly less tortuous afterlife than everybody else's.

You are aligned with the Eldritch Abomination, but do not know who it is. You win if the Eldritch Abomination wins, regardless of whether you live or die.


You are a *Staff Chick*. Your power is *Healing Hands*. Every night, you may choose to heal any player other than yourself. That player is then safe from mafia killings during the night. However, your healing magic doesn't go well with modern technology, and if some idiot has injected nanomachines into your target's bloodstream beforehand, well...

You are aligned with the innocents. You win when all the mafia killing roles are dead.


You are *The Medic*. Your power is *Nanomachines*. Every night, you may choose to heal any player other than yourself. That player is then safe from mafia killings during the night. However, that silly pseudoscientific 'healing magic' you've heard about tends to be rather disruptive of delicate technology like your awesome nanomachines, so if some silly mage should come around after you and start chanting spells or something, that could be bad.

You are aligned with the innocents. You win when all the mafia killing roles are dead.


You are *Sir Swearsalot*. Your power is *Precision F Strike*. At any point during the day, you may post "Fuck you, [username]" in one (and only one) of your posts in the game discussion thread. If you do this and are still alive by the end of the day, the player you named will die during the following night.

You are aligned with the mafia, but do not know who they are. You win if the mafia wins and you survive until the end of the game, though you prefer a mafia win with you dying to a mafia loss.


You are an *Amoral Attorney*. Your power is *Chewbacca Defense*. At any point during a day discussion, you may give a player other than yourself legal protection, making them immune to being lynched. All votes for them will be disregarded. To do this, you need to post the following message in the thread: "*I am Amoral Attorney, legal counsel for [username]. All votes for them are hereby nullified.*" Keep in mind, however, that as this will reveal your identity and likely result in a swift death for you, so choose wisely who you protect.

You are aligned with the mafia, but do not know who they are. You win if the mafia wins and you survive until the end of the game, though you prefer a mafia win with you dying to a mafia loss.


You are a *Western Terrorist*. Your power is *Suicide Attack*. Any any point during a day discussion, you may blow yourself up along with a player of your choice, killing both of you. To do this, you need to post the following message in the thread: "*Bomb [username].*"

You are aligned with the mafia, but do not know who they are. You win if the mafia wins and you survive until the end of the game, though you prefer a mafia win with you dying to a mafia loss.


You are a *Waif Prophet*. Your power is *The Omniscient*. Every night, you may ask any yes/no question that does not directly pertain to a player's alignment and receive a truthful answer.

You are aligned with the innocents. You win when all the mafia killing roles are dead.


You are a *Mysterious Informant*. Your power is *Expospeak*. You don't do much, really - but you hang around in all sorts of places and know the talk of the town, and it just might be of use to somebody. In particular, you've heard that the Police Are Useless, but that they're remarkably consistently so.

You are aligned with the innocents. You win when all the mafia killing roles are dead.

[In particular, you've heard that language can, in fact, be surprisingly deadly, if employed with enough precision.]

[In particular, you've heard that _somebody_ around is quite Genre Savvy and might be a bit more trope-aware than the general public. Helpful?]

[In particular, you've heard there are two kinds of doctors in town, a couple of mumbo-jumbo magic healers and a couple of sci-fi guys with some crazy Nanomachines. Supposedly the two groups don't get along.]

[Well, you haven't really noticed anything strange, but perhaps that's exactly what's so strange: you'd think there would be gang wars in such a populous town...?]

[In particular, you've heard it might be dangerous to reveal your true name in this town: there's somebody around who might use it against you...]

[In particular, you've heard whispers of a Back Alley Doctor with some shady funding. Perhaps you should think twice before indiscriminately recruiting doctors to help you.]


You are *Crazy Prepared*. Your power is *Bulletproof Vest*. You're just a normal guy going about your daily business, except you always do it wearing Kevlar, just in case. The recent surge of deaths only makes you feel more vindicated about it: there's no way the mafia will ever shoot you with _this_! (Okay, so it's only 50% effective, and it only works against the mafia, but who cares about statistics?)

You are aligned with the innocents. You win when all the mafia killing roles are dead.


You have a *Body Double*. Your power is *Decoy Getaway*. Your double is sure to take any fall for you - but unfortunately, you only have one double, and thanks to modern ID checks, you aren't safe from public lynchings. Better not get lynched, then. You will be notified if/when your double dies.

You are aligned with the innocents. You win when all the mafia killing roles are dead.


You are a *Meta Guy*. Your power is *Genre Savvy*. Whenever a player dies, you will be told their role trope. It is up to you what to do with that information.

You are aligned with the innocents. You win when all the mafia killing roles are dead.


You are a *Swiss Messenger*. Your power is *Spanner In The Works*. Somehow, whenever you encounter somebody, you seem to inexplicably screw up all their plans. You're starting to realize this can actually be of some use if you employ it right. The one you target during the night will have their power nullified that night and the following day.

You are aligned with the innocents. You win when all the mafia killing roles are dead.


You are a *Willing Channeler*. Your power is *Powers Via Possession*. On any night during the game, you may choose any dead player and channel them, taking up their role and power for the remainder of the game.

Before you channel someone, you have no alignment. You will always lose if you die before channeling anyone. After channeling, your alignment and win condition are the same as the dead player's.


You are a *Praetorian Guard*. Your power is *Taking The Bullet*. During the night, you may choose one player to protect. If they are attacked by the mafia during the night, you have a 50% chance of dying in their place and a 50% chance of surviving and killing the mafia member that attacked them.

You are aligned with the innocents. You win when all the mafia killing roles are dead.


You are a *Non Action Guy*. Your power is *What Kind Of Lame Power Is Heart Anyway*. You don't do anything special, but you can give moral support.

You are aligned with the innocents. You win when all the mafia killing roles are dead.


You are *A God Am I*. Your power is *I Know Your True Name*. During the night, you can kill up to three players of your choosing. The only catch is that in order to do so, you need to correctly guess their role trope _and_ their power trope. (If their role or power has changed during the course of the game, for any reason, you need to guess their _original_ role and power.) To make it even better, you won't even let a puny little thing such as death stop you from carrying out your killings - though then of course you won't be able to try to convince people to give up their roles anymore.

You are a third-party alignment. You win if you kill the final player in the game before a victory for any other faction has been achieved; failing that, your goal is to have killed as many people as possible during the course of the game.





Spoiler: Original TV Tropes Mafia game state/night action procedure/logs



Roles marked * have a nonoptional or opt-out night action. Roles marked x have an optional night action. Roles marked # have a passive property. Roles marked o have a required night action night 0 but never again. Roles marked D have a day action. Roles marked M show up as mafia when dead.

MAFIA
M* Big Bad - Grammar Nazi (formerly sreservoir [DEAD], Vixie [DEAD], Minnow [DEAD])
M  The Dragon - Grammar Nazi (formerly Mawile [DEAD], Minnow [DEAD]) [ROLE CHANGED]
Mx The Starscream - Vixie (now Big Bad) [DEAD]
M  Evil Minion - Grammar Nazi (now Big Bad) [ROLE CHANGED]
M  Evil Minion - Minnow (now Big Bad) [ROLE CHANGED]
M* Back Alley Doctor - Tailsy [DEAD]

D  Western Terrorist - Zora of Termina [DEAD]
D  Sir Swearsalot - Kratos Aurion
D  Amoral Attorney - blazheirio889

INNOCENT
M  Minion With An F In Evil - Hyde (formerly Superbird [DEAD])
x  Waif Prophet - Blastoise
*  Intrepid Reporter - newt [DEAD]
*  Inspector Lestrade - baiyune
*  The Medic - Espeon
*  The Medic - St. Christopher [DEAD]
*  Staff Chick - Midnight [DEAD]
*  Staff Chick - ole_schooler
*  Praetorian Guard - Rai-CH (formerly Leafstorm [DEAD], Dave Strider [DEAD])
*  Praetorian Guard - Lupine Volt [DEAD]
*  Swiss Messenger - Meowth
*  Swiss Messenger - Blazie
#  Body Double - Karkat Vantas
#  Body Double - Minks
#  Crazy Prepared - Bloodmania [DEAD]
#  Crazy Prepared - Blaziking the Adept
   Death Seeker - Crazy Linoone
x  Willing Channeler - Rai-CH (now Praetorian Guard) [ROLE CHANGED]
x  Willing Channeler - Leafstorm (now Praetorian Guard) [DEAD]
x  Willing Channeler - Hyde (now Minion With An F In Evil) [ROLE CHANGED]
#  Meta Guy - Dannichu
#o Stalker With A Crush - Negrek [DEAD]
   Mysterious Informant (A God Am I) - Kusarigamaitachi [DEAD]
   Mysterious Informant (A God Am I) - ultraviolet
   Mysterious Informant (Lestrade) - Teh Ebil Snorlax
   Mysterious Informant (Lestrade) - Worst Username Ever
   Mysterious Informant (Back Alley Doctor) - Skylark [DEAD]
   Mysterious Informant (Back Alley Doctor) - Zhorken [DEAD]
   Mysterious Informant (Sir Swearsalot) - Jack_the_PumpkinKing
   Mysterious Informant (Staff Chick/The Medic) - Ketsu
   Mysterious Informant (Meta Guy) - Mai [DEAD]
   Mysterious Informant (one mafia) - Wargle
   Non Action Guy - Littlestream [DEAD]
   Non Action Guy - Emerald Espeon (now Manchurian Agent) [DEAD]
   Non Action Guy - Seritinajii
   Non Action Guy - Flower Doll
   Non Action Guy - moon-panther
   Non Action Guy - Flareth

THIRD PARTY
#  Eldritch Abomination - Polymetric Sesquialtera
   The Fundamentalist - Big Red Cherry Bomb [DEAD]
x  A God Am I - Fruity Walkerloops [DEAD]


ORDER OF NIGHT ACTIONS

Game Preparation (these night actions occur with a shorter deadline on the first night, and then never again)
1) The Stalker With A Crush picks a target, and that target is notified of having a stalker.

Evening (these night actions directly affect other subsequent night actions)
1) The Willing Channelers pick a dead player to target, if any. If the channeled player has a night action, the channeler will be able to use it on the same night. If they targeted the Stalker With A Crush, they can pick a target who is now notified of having a stalker.
2) The Swiss Messengers pick a target. If the target's role appears at any subsequent point in the order of night actions, it will be nullified for the night. If their target is another Swiss Messenger, the target's role occurs as usual.
3) The Praetorian Guards pick a target to guard.

Midnight (these night actions determine the deaths of the night; if a player is put on the death queue more than once, without being removed from it in between, the chronologically first death will be what counts for the flavor text)
1) The game master creates a death queue, starting as an empty list; a Nanomachines list, starting as an empty list; and a Healing Hands list, starting as an empty list.
2) The Starscream decides whether to assassinate the Big Bad. If he does, the Big Bad is put on the death queue (dying from a stab in the back).
3) The mafia attack their chosen target, unless the Big Bad is on the death queue.
3a) If the mafia's target is guarded by a Praetorian Guard, the game master flips a coin. If heads, the Big Bad is put on the death queue (dying from a gunshot wound). If tails, the Praetorian Guard is put on the death queue (exploded).
3b) If the mafia's target is not guarded by a Praetorian Guard but is Crazy Prepared, the game master flips a coin. If heads, nothing happens. If tails, the mafia's target is put on the death queue (exploded).
3b) If the target was not guarded by a Praetorian Guard and is not Crazy Prepared, it is put on the death queue (exploded) unless it is the Eldritch Abomination, in which case it is instead activated.
4) The Medics each heal their chosen target. The target is put on the Nanomachines list. If the target is currently on the death queue, it is removed from the death queue.
5) The Back Alley Doctor heals his chosen target. The target is put on the healing list corresponding to his chosen method. If the target is currently on the death queue, it is removed from the death queue.
6) The Staff Chicks each heal their chosen target. The target is put on the Healing Hands list. If the target is currently on the death queue, it is now removed from the death queue.
7) Any players who are on both the Nanomachines list and the Healing Hands list are put on the death queue (massive internal haemorrhaging).
8) If Sir Swearsalot said "Fuck you, [username]" to a player in the previous day's discussion thread and is still alive (even if he is on the death queue), the player he named is put on the death queue (bleeding out of the ears). This is chronologically the first death.
9) If a player with a Body Double is on the death queue, the player's place on the death queue is taken by their double (an unidentified body shows up with whatever condition their death would have warranted).
10) A God Am I targets up to three people to kill. Any players whose role and power trope he correctly identifies are put on the death queue (heart attack).
11) If the Stalker With A Crush's target is currently on the death queue, the Stalker With A Crush is put on the death queue (suicide by self-hanging).

Twilight (giving information to certain players in accordance with their powers)
1) If the Eldritch Abomination has been activated, the game master sends them a PM to notify them of this.
2) The Intrepid Reporter inspects her chosen target and the game master sends her a PM specifying "mafia" if the player is a mafia killing role (i.e. the Big Bad, The Dragon, The Starscream, an Evil Minion, or the Back Alley Doctor) or an activated Eldritch Abomination, and "not mafia" otherwise.
3) Inspector Lestrade inspects his chosen target and the game master sends him a PM specifying "mafia" if the player's true alignment is not with the mafia and "not mafia" if the player's true alignment is with the mafia.
4) The Waif Prophet asks her question and receives a truthful yes/no answer.
5) The Stalker With A Crush wraps up his eavesdropping and the game master sends him a PM with the names of all powers that targeted his target during the night as well as the names of all players who targeted the target.

Dawnbreak (some cleanup and messaging work for the game master to do before the day phase starts)
1) The game master kills every player on the death queue, in order, using the buttons given next to the players' names on the player list in the game thread.
2) The game master posts a night wrap-up post detailing who died and their alignments.
3) If the Big Bad is dead, The Dragon is promoted to Big Bad, unless the Big Bad was killed by The Starscream, in which case The Starscream is promoted instead. If The Dragon is dead or has been promoted, an Evil Minion is chosen at random and is promoted to The Dragon. All mafia members receive notifications of the promotions.
4) If the Western Terrorist or Amoral Attorney was the target of a Swiss Messenger and is still alive, the game master sends them a PM notifying them that their roles are disabled during the following day discussion.
5) If somebody's Body Double is dead, that player is notified of this.
6) The game master PMs the Meta Guy with the name of the role of each person who died during the night.

DAY PROCESS

1) If the Western Terrorist bombs somebody, kill him and then his target.
2) Once the deadline passes, if the player voted for lynching is the Eldritch Abomination and has been activated, the Eldritch Abomination wins the game immediately, along with The Fundamentalist.
3) The player voted for lynching is killed.
4) If the Stalker With A Crush's target is dead, the Stalker With A Crush is killed.
5) The game master posts a day wrap-up post detailing who died and their alignments.
6) The game master PMs the Meta Guy with the name of the role of each person who died during this day.
7) If the Big Bad is dead, The Dragon is promoted to Big Bad, unless the Big Bad was lynched with the first vote cast by The Starscream, in which case The Starscream is promoted instead. If The Dragon is dead or has been promoted, an Evil Minion is chosen at random and is promoted to The Dragon. All mafia members receive notifications of the promotions.


GAME LOG

NIGHT 0
-------
GAME PREPARATION
Negrek (Stalker With A Crush) stalks Midnight (Staff Chick). Midnight is notified.

EVENING
Blazie (Swiss Messenger) blocks Mai (Mysterious Informant).
Meowth (Swiss Messenger) blocks Blastoise (Waif Prophet).
Lupine Volt (Praetorian Guard) guards Kratos Aurion (Sir Swearsalot).
Dave Strider (Praetorian Guard) guards Kratos Aurion (Sir Swearsalot).

MIDNIGHT
sreservoir (Big Bad) attacks Kratos Aurion (Sir Swearsalot).
- Kratos Aurion is guarded by Lupine Volt and Dave Strider (Praetorian Guards). Lupine Volt successfully counterattacks. sreservoir is on the death queue.
Espeon (The Medic) heals Kratos Aurion (Sir Swearsalot). Kratos Aurion is on the Nanomachines list.
ole_schooler (Staff Chick) heals moon-panther (Non Action Guy). moon-panther is on the Healing Hands list.
Midnight (Staff Chick) heals Vixie (The Starscream). Vixie is on the Healing Hands list.

TWILIGHT
newt (Intrepid Reporter) inspects Midnight (Staff Chick). Not mafia.
baiyune (Inspector Lestrade) inspects Kusarigamaitachi (Mysterious Informant). Mafia.
Blastoise (Waif Prophet) asks, "Is there a character that could, by some stretch of the imagination at least, be considered an 'alien'?". Yes.
Negrek (Stalker With A Crush) eavesdrops on Midnight (Staff Chick). Powers: Amateur Sleuth; players: newt.

DAWNBREAK
sreservoir (Big Bad) is dead. Mafia.
Mawile (The Dragon) is promoted to Big Bad.
Minnow (Evil Minion) is promoted to The Dragon.
Dannichu (Meta Guy) genre-analyzes sreservoir (Big Bad).


DAY 1
-----
Grammar Nazi (Evil Minion) votes to abstain.
Blastoise (Waif Prophet) votes for Superbird (Minion With An F In Evil) [OVERRIDDEN].
Ketsu (Mysterious Informant) votes for Superbird (Minion With An F In Evil).
Wargle (Mysterious Informant) votes for Superbird (Minion With An F In Evil).
Leafstorm (Willing Channeler) votes to abstain [OVERRIDDEN].
Tailsy (Back Alley Doctor) votes to abstain.
Blaziking the Adept (Crazy Prepared) votes to abstain.
Blastoise (Waif Prophet) votes to abstain.
Hyde (Willing Channeler) votes to abstain.
Kratos Aurion (Sir Swearsalot) votes to abstain [OVERRIDDEN].
Dannichu (Meta Guy) votes to abstain.
ole_schooler (Staff Chick) votes for Superbird (Minion With An F In Evil).
Rai-CH (Willing Channeler) votes to abstain.
Blazie (Swiss Messenger) votes to abstain.
Minnow (The Dragon) votes to abstain.
Crazy Linoone (Death Seeker) votes to abstain.
Fruity Walkerloops (A God Am I) votes for Minnow (The Dragon).
Superbird (Minion With An F In Evil) votes for Minnow (The Dragon) [OVERRIDDEN].
Emerald Espeon (Non Action Guy) votes to abstain.
Karkat Vantas (Body Double) votes for Superbird (Minion With An F In Evil) [OVERRIDDEN].
Flareth (Non Action Guy) votes for Superbird (Minion With An F In Evil).
Midnight (Staff Chick) votes for Superbird (Minion With An F In Evil).
Dave Strider (Praetorian Guard) votes for Superbird (Minion With An F In Evil) [OVERRIDDEN].
Mai (Mysterious Informant) votes to abstain.
Superbird (Minion With An F In Evil) votes for Superbird (Minion With An F In Evil).
baiyune (Inspector Lestrade) votes to abstain.
ultraviolet (Mysterious Informant) votes to abstain.
Karkat Vantas (Body Double) votes for Minnow (The Dragon).
Leafstorm (Willing Channeler) votes for Minnow (The Dragon).
Littlestream (Non Action Guy) votes to abstain.
Dave Strider (Praetorian Guard) votes for Minnow (The Dragon).
Kratos Aurion (Sir Swearsalot) votes for Minnow (The Dragon).
Jack_the_PumpkinKing (Mysterious Informant) votes for Minnow (The Dragon).
Negrek (Stalker With A Crush) votes for Bloodmania (Crazy Prepared).
Zhorken (Mysterious Informant) votes for Superbird (Minion With An F In Evil).

FINAL TALLY: 15 abstain, 7 Superbird (Minion With An F In Evil), 6 Minnow (The Dragon), 1 Bloodmania (Crazy Prepared).

The villagers abstain.


NIGHT 1
-------
EVENING
Meowth (Swiss Messenger) blocks Grammar Nazi (Evil Minion).
Blazie (Swiss Messenger) blocks Mai (Mysterious Informant).
Lupine Volt (Praetorian Guard) guards Tailsy (Back Alley Doctor).
Dave Strider (Praetorian Guard) guards Negrek (Stalker With A Crush).

MIDNIGHT
Mawile (Big Bad) attacks Dave Strider (Praetorian Guard). Dave Strider is on the death queue.
Espeon (The Medic) heals Mawile (Big Bad) [RANDOMIZED]. Mawile is on the Nanomachines list.
St. Christopher (The Medic) heals Kusarigamaitachi (Mysterious Informant) [RANDOMIZED]. Kusarigamaitachi is on the Nanomachines list.
Tailsy (Back Alley Doctor) heals Negrek (Stalker With A Crush) with Nanomachines. Negrek is on the Nanomachines list.
Midnight (Staff Chick) heals Superbird (Minion With An F In Evil). Superbird is on the Healing Hands list.
ole_schooler (Staff Chick) heals Dannichu (Meta Guy) [RANDOMIZED]. Dannichu is on the Healing Hands list.
Kratos Aurion (Sir Swearsalot) strikes Superbird (Minion With An F In Evil). Superbird is on the death queue.
Walker (A God Am I) makes three guesses:
- Superbird (Minion With An F In Evil) is a Minion With An F In Evil with the power of Help Face Turn. False.
- Tailsy (Back Alley Doctor) is a Violent Glaswegian with the power of Drunken Master. False.
- Superbird (Minion With An F In Evil) is a Minion With An F In Evil with the power of Mook Face Turn. True. Superbird is on the death queue.

TWILIGHT
newt (Intrepid Reporter) inspects Fruity Walkerloops (A God Am I). Not mafia.
baiyune (Inspector Lestrade) inspects Superbird (Minion With An F In Evil). Mafia.
Negrek (Stalker With A Crush) eavesdrops on Midnight (Staff Chick). Powers: none; players: none.

DAWNBREAK
Superbird (Minion With An F In Evil) is dead. Mafia.
Dave Strider (Praetorian Guard) is dead. Not mafia.
Dannichu (Meta Guy) genre-analyzes Superbird (Minion With An F In Evil) and Dave Strider (Praetorian Guard).


DAY 2
-----
Vixie (The Starscream) votes for Mawile (Big Bad) [OVERRIDDEN].
Kusarigamaitachi (Mysterious Informant) votes for Mawile (Big Bad).
Hyde (Willing Channeler) votes for Mawile (Big Bad) [OVERRIDDEN].
Hyde (Willing Channeler) votes to abstain [OVERRIDDEN].
ultraviolet (Mysterious Informant) votes to abstain [OVERRIDDEN].
Negrek (Stalker With A Crush) votes to abstain.
Blaziking the Adept (Crazy Prepared) votes to abstain.
Kratos Aurion (Sir Swearsalot) votes for Bloodmania (Crazy Prepared) [OVERRIDDEN].
Tailsy (Back Alley Doctor) votes for Bloodmania (Crazy Prepared) [OVERRIDDEN].
Hyde (Willing Channeler) votes for Bloodmania (Crazy Prepared) [OVERRIDDEN].
Dannichu (Meta Guy) votes for Bloodmania (Crazy Prepared) [OVERRIDDEN].
Polymetric Sesquialtera (Eldritch Abomination) votes for Bloodmania (Crazy Prepared) [OVERRIDDEN].
Fruity Walkerloops (A God Am I) votes for Bloodmania (Crazy Prepared) [OVERRIDDEN].
Crazy Linoone (Death Seeker) votes for Bloodmania (Crazy Prepared) [OVERRIDDEN].
Emerald Espeon (Non Action Guy) votes for Bloodmania (Crazy Prepared) [OVERRIDDEN].
Karkat Vantas (Body Double) votes for Bloodmania (Crazy Prepared) [OVERRIDDEN].
Rai-CH (Willing Channeler) votes for Bloodmania (Crazy Prepared) [OVERRIDDEN].
Mai (Mysterious Informant) votes for Bloodmania (Crazy Prepared) [OVERRIDDEN].

Zora of Termina (Western Terrorist) explodes on Bloodmania (Crazy Prepared).
Zora of Termina (Western Terrorist) is dead. Not mafia.
Bloodmania (Crazy Prepared) is dead. Not mafia.
Dannichu (Meta Guy) genre-analyzes Zora of Termina (Western Terrorist) and Bloodmania (Crazy Prepared).

Wargle (Mysterious Informant) votes for Minks (Body Double).
Rai-CH (Willing Channeler) votes for St. Christopher (The Medic).
Vixie (The Starscream) votes for St. Christopher (The Medic).
Crazy Linoone (Death Seeker) votes for St. Christopher (The Medic).
Tailsy (Back Alley Doctor) votes for St. Christopher (The Medic).
Hyde (Willing Channeler) votes for St. Christopher (The Medic).
Midnight (Staff Chick) votes for St. Christopher (The Medic).
Skylark (Mysterious Informant) votes for St. Christopher (The Medic).
Espeon (The Medic) votes for St. Christopher (The Medic).
ultraviolet (Mysterious Informant) votes for St. Christopher (The Medic).
Fruity Walkerloops (A God Am I) votes for St. Christopher (The Medic).
Emerald Espeon (Non Action Guy) votes for St. Christopher (The Medic).
Ketsu (Mysterious Informant) votes for St. Christopher (The Medic).
Polymetric Sesquialtera (Eldritch Abomination) votes for St. Christopher (The Medic).
Mai (Mysterious Infomrant) votes for St. Christopher (The Medic).
Jack_the_PumpkinKing (Mysterious Informant) votes for St. Christopher (The Medic).
ole_schooler (Staff Chick) votes for St. Christopher (The Medic).
Leafstorm (Willing Channeler) votes for St. Christopher (The Medic).
Teh Ebil Snorlax (Mysterious Informant) votes for St. Christopher (The Medic).
Kratos Aurion (Sir Swearsalot) votes for St. Christopher (The Medic).
Negrek (Stalker With A Crush) votes for St. Christopher (The Medic).

FINAL TALLY: 18 St. Christopher (The Medic), 2 abstain, 1 Mawile (Big Bad), 1 Minks (Body Double).

St. Christopher (The Medic) is dead. Not mafia.
Dannichu (Meta Guy) genre-analyzes St. Christopher (The Medic).


NIGHT 2
-------
EVENING
Leafstorm (Willing Channeler) channels Dave Strider (Praetorian Guard).
Hyde (Willing Channeler) channels Superbird (Minion With An F In Evil).
Meowth (Swiss Messenger) blocks baiyune (Inspector Lestrade).
Blazie (Swiss Messenger) blocks Mai (Mysterious Informant).
Lupine Volt (Praetorian Guard) guards Fruity Walkerloops (A God Am I).
Leafstorm (Praetorian Guard) guards Negrek (Stalker With A Crush).

MIDNIGHT
Vixie (The Starscream) assassinates Mawile (Big Bad). Mawile is on the death queue.
Mawile (Big Bad) fails to attack Kratos Aurion (Sir Swearsalot).
Espeon (The Medic) heals Tailsy (Back Alley Doctor). Tailsy is on the Nanomachines list.
Tailsy (Back Alley Doctor) heals Fruity Walkerloops (A God Am I) with Nanomachines. Fruity Walkerloops is on the Nanomachines list.
ole_schooler (Staff Chick) heals Fruity Walkerloops (A God Am I). Fruity Walkerloops is on the Healing Hands list.
Midnight (Staff Chick) heals Negrek (Stalker With A Crush). Negrek is on the Healing Hands list.
Kratos Aurion (Sir Swearsalot) strikes Fruity Walkerloops (A God Am I). Fruity Walkerloops is on the death queue.
Walker (A God Am I) makes three guesses:
- Zhorken (Mysterious Informant) is a Mysterious Informant with the power of Expospeak. True. Zhorken is on the death queue.
- Skylark (Mysterious Informant) is a Mysterious Informant with the power of Expospeak. True. Skylark is on the death queue.
- Mai (Mysterious Informant) is a Mysterious Informant with the power of Expospeak. True. Mai is on the death queue.

TWILIGHT
Blastoise (Waif Prophet) asks, "Is there more than one healer?". Yes.
newt (Intrepid Reporter) inspects Kratos Aurion (Sir Swearsalot). Not mafia.
baiyune (Inspector Lestrade) inspects Tailsy (Back Alley Doctor). Not mafia.
Negrek (Stalker With A Crush) eavesdrops on Midnight (Staff Chick). Powers: none; players: none.

DAWNBREAK
Mawile (Big Bad) is dead. Mafia.
Fruity Walkerloops (A God Am I) is dead. Not mafia.
Zhorken (Mysterious Informant) is dead. Not mafia.
Skylark (Mysterious Informant) is dead. Not mafia.
Mai (Mysterious Informant) is dead. Not mafia.
Vixie (The Starscream) is promoted to Big Bad.
Dannichu (Meta Guy) genre-analyzes Mawile (Big Bad), Fruity Walkerloops (A God Am I), Zhorken (Mysterious Informant), Skylark (Mysterious Informant) and Mai (Mysterious Informant).


DAY 3
-----
Karkat Vantas (Body Double) votes for Littlestream (Non Action Guy).
Rai-CH (Willing Channeler) votes for Littlestream (Non Action Guy).
Tailsy (Back Alley Doctor) votes for Littlestream (Non Action Guy).
Wargle (Mysterious Informant) votes for Littlestream (Non Action Guy).
Leafstorm (Praetorian Guard) votes for Littlestream (Non Action Guy).
Ketsu (Mysterious Informant) votes for Littlestream (Non Action Guy).
Kratos Aurion (Sir Swearsalot) votes for Littlestream (Non Action Guy).
Crazy Linoone (Death Seeker) votes for Littlestream (Non Action Guy).
Hyde (Minion With An F In Evil) votes for Littlestream (Non Action Guy).
Blazie (Swiss Messenger) votes for Littlestream (Non Action Guy).
ole_schooler (Staff Chick) votes for Big Red Cherry Bomb (The Fundamentalist).
Emerald Espeon (Non Action Guy) votes for Big Red Cherry Bomb (The Fundamentalist).
Littlestream (Non Action Guy) votes for Big Red Cherry Bomb (The Fundamentalist).

FINAL TALLY: 10 Littlestream (Non Action Guy), 3 Big Red Cherry Bomb (The Fundamentalist).

Littlestream (Non Action Guy) is dead. Not mafia.
Dannichu (Meta Guy) genre-analyzes Littlestream (Non Action Guy).


NIGHT 3
-------
EVENING
Meowth (Swiss Messenger) blocks Grammar Nazi (Evil Minion) [RANDOMIZED].
Blazie (Swiss Messenger) blocks Negrek (Stalker With A Crush).
Leafstorm (Praetorian Guard) guards Blastoise (Waif Prophet).
Lupine Volt (Praetorian Guard) guards Kratos Aurion (Sir Swearsalot).

MIDNIGHT
Vixie (Big Bad) attacks Kratos Aurion (Sir Swearsalot).
- Kratos Aurion (Sir Swearsalot) is guarded by Lupine Volt (Praetorian Guard). Lupine Volt is killed in the struggle. Lupine Volt is on the death queue.
Espeon (The Medic) heals Kratos Aurion (Sir Swearsalot). Kratos Aurion is on the Nanomachines list.
ole_schooler (Staff Chick) heals Karkat Vantas (Body Double). Karkat Vantas is on the Healing Hands list.
Midnight (Staff Chick) heals Negrek (Stalker With A Crush). Negrek is on the Healing Hands list.

TWILIGHT
Blastoise (Waif Prophet) asks, "Did the Mysterious Informants die as a result of the roleclaim itself, as opposed to someone else killing them for roleclaiming?" No.
newt (Intrepid Reporter) inspects Worst Username Ever (Mysterious Informant). Not mafia.
baiyune (Inspector Lestrade) inspects Minks (Body Double). Mafia.
Negrek (Stalker With A Crush) eavesdrops on Midnight (Staff Chick). Powers: none; players: none.

DAWNBREAK
Lupine Volt (Praetorian Guard) is dead. Not mafia.
Dannichu (Meta Guy) genre-analyzes Lupine Volt (Praetorian Guard).


DAY 4
-----
Kratos Aurion (Sir Swearsalot) votes for Big Red Cherry Bomb (The Fundamentalist).
Rai-CH (Willing Channeler) votes for Big Red Cherry Bomb (The Fundamentalist).
ole_schooler (Staff Chick) votes for Big Red Cherry Bomb (The Fundamentalist).
Emerald Espeon (Non Action Guy) votes for Big Red Cherry Bomb (The Fundamentalist).
Tailsy (Back Alley Doctor) votes for Big Red Cherry Bomb (The Fundamentalist).
Jack_the_PumpkinKing (Mysterious Informant) votes for Big Red Cherry Bomb (The Fundamentalist).
Karkat Vantas (Body Double) votes for Big Red Cherry Bomb (The Fundamentalist).
Blastoise (Waif Prophet) votes for Big Red Cherry Bomb (The Fundamentalist).
Espeon (The Medic) votes for Big Red Cherry Bomb (The Fundamentalist).
Seritinaji (Non Action Guy) votes for Big Red Cherry Bomb (The Fundamentalist).
Wargle (Mysterious Informant) votes for Big Red Cherry Bomb (The Fundamentalist).
Blazie (Swiss Messenger) votes for Big Red Cherry Bomb (The Fundamentalist).
baiyune (Inspector Lestrade) votes for Big Red Cherry Bomb (The Fundamentalist).

FINAL TALLY: 13 Big Red Cherry Bomb (The Fundamentalist).

Big Red Cherry Bomb is dead. Not mafia.
Dannichu (Meta Guy) genre-analyzes Big Red Cherry Bomb (The Fundamentalist).


NIGHT 4
-------
EVENING
Meowth (Swiss Messenger) blocks baiyune (Inspector Lestrade) [RANDOMIZED].
Blazie (Swiss Messenger) blocks Rai-CH (Willing Channeler).

MIDNIGHT
Vixie (Big Bad) attacks Kusarigamaitachi (Mysterious Informant). Kusarigamaitachi is on the death queue.
Espeon (The Medic) heals Tailsy (Back Alley Doctor). Tailsy is on the Nanomachines list.
Tailsy (Back Alley Doctor) heals Kratos Aurion (Sir Swearsalot) with Healing Hands. Kratos Aurion is on the Healing Hands list.
Midnight (Staff Chick) heals Negrek (Stalker With A Crush). Negrek is on the Healing Hands list.
ole_schooler (Staff Chick) heals Midnight (Staff Chick). Midnight is on the Healing Hands list.
Kratos Aurion (Sir Swearsalot) strikes Tailsy (Back Alley Doctor). Tailsy is on the death queue.

TWILIGHT
newt (Intrepid Reporter) inspects Vixie (Big Bad). Mafia.
baiyune (Inspector Lestrade) inspects Vixie (Big Bad). Not mafia.
Blastoise (Waif Prophet) asks, "Is the number of mafia members (i.e. people the innocents must kill to win) about the same as the number of living innocents (i.e. non-mafia-aligned players)?" No.
Negrek (Stalker With A Crush) eavesdrops on Midnight (Staff Chick). Powers: Healing Hands; players: ole_schooler.

DAWNBREAK
Tailsy (Back Alley Doctor) is dead. Mafia.
Kusarigamaitachi (Mysterious Informant) is dead. Not mafia.
Dannichu (Meta Guy) genre-analyzes Tailsy (Back Alley Doctor) and Kusarigamaitachi (Mysterious Informant).


DAY 5
-----
newt (Intrepid Reporter) votes for Vixie (Big Bad) [OVERRIDDEN].
Karkat Vantas (Body Double) votes for Vixie (Big Bad).
Vixie (Big Bad) votes for Vixie (Big Bad) [OVERRIDDEN].
Midnight (Staff Chick) votes for Vixie (Big Bad) [OVERRIDDEN].
Dannichu (Meta Guy) votes for Vixie (Big Bad).
Vixie (Big Bad) votes for Vixie (Big Bad) [OVERRIDDEN].
newt (Intrepid Reporter) votes to abstain.
ultraviolet (Mysterious Informant) votes for Vixie (Big Bad).
Blaziking the Adept (Crazy Prepared) votes to abstain.
ole_schooler (Staff Chick) votes for Vixie (Big Bad).
Minnow (The Dragon) votes for Vixie (Big Bad).
Crazy Linoone (Death Seeker) votes for Vixie (Big Bad).
Jack_the_PumpkinKing (Mysterious Informant) votes for Vixie (Big Bad).
Hyde (Minion With An F In Evil) votes for Vixie (Big Bad).
Midnight (Staff Chick) votes for Minnow (The Dragon).
Vixie (Big Bad) votes for Minnow (The Dragon).
Negrek (Stalker With A Crush) votes for Vixie (Big Bad).
Polymetric Sesquialtera (Eldritch Abomination) votes for Vixie (Big Bad).

FINAL TALLY: 10 Vixie (Big Bad), 2 abstain, 2 Minnow (The Dragon)

Vixie (Big Bad) is dead. Mafia.
Dannichu (Meta Guy) genre-analyzes Vixie (Big Bad).
Minnow (The Dragon) is promoted to Big Bad.
Grammar Nazi (Evil Minion) is promoted to The Dragon.


NIGHT 5
-------
EVENING
Emerald Espeon (Non Action Guy) has become a Manchurian Agent.
Blazie (Swiss Messenger) blocks ole_schooler (Staff Chick).
Meowth (Swiss Messenger) blocks Flareth (Non Action Guy) [RANDOMIZED].

MIDNIGHT
Minnow (Big Bad) attacks Kratos Aurion (Sir Swearsalot). Kratos Aurion is on the death queue.
Espeon (The Medic) heals Kratos Aurion (Sir Swearsalot). Kratos Aurion is on the Nanomachines list.
- Kratos Aurion is no longer on the death queue.
Midnight (Staff Chick) heals Negrek (Stalker With A Crush). Negrek is on the Healing Hands list.
ole_schooler (Staff Chick) heals Dannichu (Meta Guy).
- Blocked by Blazie (Swiss Messenger).
Walker (A God Am I) makes three guesses:
- Midnight (Staff Chick) is The Medic with the power of Healing Hands. False.
- Karkat Vantas (Body Double) is a Body Double with the power of Decoy Getaway. True. Karkat Vantas is on the death queue.
- Leafstorm (Praetorian Guard) is a Willing Channeler with the power of Powers Via Possession. True. Leafstorm is on the death queue.

TWILIGHT
newt (Intrepid Reporter) inspects Emerald Espeon (Manchurian Agent). Mafia.
baiyune (Inspector Lestrade) inspects moon-panther (Non Action Guy) [RANDOMIZED]. Mafia.
Negrek (Stalker With A Crush) eavesdrops on Midnight (Staff Chick). Powers: none; players: none.

DAWNBREAK
Karkat Vantas (Body Double) is dead. Not mafia.
Leafstorm (Praetorian Guard) is dead. Not mafia.
Dannichu (Meta Guy) genre-analyzes Karkat Vantas (Body Double) and Leafstorm (Praetorian Guard).


DAY 6
-----
newt (Intrepid Reporter) votes for Emerald Espeon (Manchurian Agent).
ultraviolet (Mysterious Informant) votes for Emerald Espeon (Manchurian Agent).
Wargle (Mysterious Informant) votes for Emerald Espeon (Manchurian Agent).
Seritinaji (Non Action Guy) votes for Emerald Espeon (Manchurian Agent).
Jack_the_PumpkinKing (Mysterious Informant) votes for Emerald Espeon (Manchurian Agent).
Midnight (Staff Chick) votes for Emerald Espeon (Manchurian Agent).
Blazie (Swiss Messenger) votes for Emerald Espeon (Manchurian Agent).
Emerald Espeon (Manchurian Agent) votes for Emerald Espeon (Manchurian Agent).
Negrek (Stalker With A Crush) votes for Emerald Espeon (Manchurian Agent).
Hyde (Minion With An F In Evil) votes for Emerald Espeon (Manchurian Agent).
ole_schooler (Staff Chick) votes for Emerald Espeon (Manchurian Agent).
Blaziking the Adept (Crazy Prepared) votes for Emerald Espeon (Manchurian Agent) [OVERRIDDEN].
Kratos Aurion (Sir Swearsalot) votes for Emerald Espeon (Manchurian Agent).
Blaziking the Adept (Crazy Prepared) votes to abstain.
Rai-CH (Willing Channeler) votes for Emerald Espeon (Manchurian Agent).
Wargle (Mysterious Informant) votes for Emerald Espeon (Manchurian Agent).
Crazy Linoone (Death Seeker) votes for Emerald Espeon (Manchurian Agent).

FINAL TALLY: 15 Emerald Espeon (Manchurian Agent), 1 abstain.

Emerald Espeon (Manchurian Agent) is dead. Mafia.
Dannichu (Meta Guy) genre-analyzes Emerald Espeon (Manchurian Agent).


NIGHT 6
-------
EVENING
Rai-CH (Willing Channeler) channels Dave Strider (Praetorian Guard).
Blazie (Swiss Messenger) blocks ole_schooler (Staff Chick).
Meowth (Swiss Messenger) blocks Ketsu (Mysterious Informant) [RANDOMIZED].
Rai-CH (Praetorian Guard) guards newt (Intrepid Reporter).

MIDNIGHT
Minnow (Big Bad) attacks newt (Intrepid Reporter).
- newt (Intrepid Reporter) is guarded by Rai-CH (Praetorian Guard). Rai-CH successfully counterattacks. Minnow is on the death queue.
Espeon (The Medic) heals Kratos Aurion (Sir Swearsalot). Kratos Aurion is on the Nanomachines list.
ole_schooler (Staff Chick) heals newt (Intrepid Reporter).
- Blocked by Blazie (Swiss Messenger).
Midnight (Staff Chick) heals Negrek (Stalker With A Crush). Negrek is on the Healing Hands list.
Kratos Aurion (Sir Swearsalot) strikes newt (Intrepid Reporter). newt is on the death queue.
Fruity Walkerloops (A God Am I) makes three guesses:
- Midnight (Staff Chick) is The Medic with the power of White Magic. False.
- Midnight (Staff Chick) is a Mysterious Waif with the power of Healing Hands. False.
- Midnight (Staff Chick) is a Staff Chick with the power of Healing Hands. True. Midnight is on the death queue.
Negrek (Stalker With A Crush) commits suicide. Negrek is on the death queue.

TWILIGHT
newt (Intrepid Reporter) inspects Negrek (Stalker With A Crush) [RANDOMIZED]. Not mafia.
baiyune (Inspector Lestrade) inspects ole_schooler (Staff Chick) [RANDOMIZED]. Mafia.
Negrek (Stalker With A Crush) eavesdrops on Midnight (Staff Chick). Powers: I Know Your True Name; players: Fruity Walkerloops.

DAWNBREAK
Minnow (Big Bad) is dead. She was mafia.
newt (Intrepid Reporter) is dead. Mafia.
Midnight (Staff Chick) is dead. Not mafia.
Negrek (Stalker With A Crush) is dead. Not mafia.
Grammar Nazi (The Dragon) is promoted to Big Bad.
Dannichu (Meta Guy) genre-analyzes Minnow (Big Bad), newt (Intrepid Reporter), Midnight (Staff Chick) and Negrek (Stalker With A Crush).


DAY 7
-----
ole_schooler (Staff Chick) votes for Flower Doll (Non Action Guy).
Jack_the_PumpkinKing (Mysterious Informant) votes for Flower Doll (Non Action Guy).
Hyde (Minion With An F In Evil) votes for Flower Doll (Non Action Guy).
Dannichu (Meta Guy) votes for Flower Doll (Non Action Guy).
Blaziking the Adept (Crazy Prepared) votes for Flower Doll (Non Action Guy).
Rai-CH (Praetorian Guard) votes for Flower Doll (Non Action Guy).
Kratos Aurion (Sir Swearsalot) votes for Flower Doll (Non Action Guy).
Polymetric Sesquialtera (Eldritch Abomination) votes for Flower Doll (Non Action Guy).

FINAL TALLY: 8 Flower Doll (Non Action Guy).

Flower Doll (Non Action Guy) is dead. Not mafia.
Dannichu (Meta Guy) genre-analyzes Flower Doll (Non Action Guy).

NIGHT 7
-------
EVENING
Rai-CH (Praetorian Guard) guards Kratos Aurion (Sir Swearsalot).
Blazie (Swiss Messenger) makes no action.

MIDNIGHT
Espeon (The Medic) heals Kratos Aurion (Sir Swearsalot).
ole_schooler (Staff Chick) heals Jack_the_PumpkinKing (Mysterious Informant).

TWILIGHT

DAWNBREAK




*Original TV Tropes Mafia Concepts*

There were a few main ideas in this setup:

- There was substantial setup for *betrayal within the mafia*. One of the mafia members was The Starscream, whose goal was to _kill and replace the Big Bad_, and an additional mafia member was a Minion With An F In Evil, who was secretly aligned with the innocents but was forbidden from naming or hinting at the identities of their fellow mafia members within the thread. The intention was for the former to strategically stab the Big Bad in the back at an opportune moment, and for the latter to try to steer the mafia astray from within mafia chat. Neither worked out terribly well; the mafia was just struggling for most of the game, to the point that one of the Non Action Guys was converted to the mafia's side by GM intervention just to stop them from losing as horrendously as they were set to.

- There were *two kinds of doctors*, two using magic and two using nanomachines; being healed with _both_ at the same time would cause a healer clash and kill the player, while being healed with two of the same type was harmless. The main idea behind this, I think, was to balance the doctors in a game of this ludicrous size. In addition, there was a *mafia doctor* able to use both kinds of healing, with the intention that they would _intentionally_ cause healer clashes when they wished, or else safely heal the mafia if they preferred.

- The *Stalker With A Crush* was a one-sided lover slash watcher who could learn the names and _power tropes_ of everyone who targeted their crush and relay it to them, and whose primary win condition was to keep them alive.

- The *Meta Guy* learned the _role trope_ of every player who died while they were around, giving town more clues about the setup.

- There was both a regular sane cop and and insane cop role; however, the insane cop's role PM strongly hinted that they had a sanity thing going on.

- The *Death Seeker*'s win condition was to be killed _by the mafia_ and subsequently see an innocent win.

- The *Eldritch Abomination* was just a regular old alien (standard on this forum), but in this game they had a true believer aligned with them who'd try to ensure their victory.

- *Sir Swearsalot*, my favorite role (and not only because I created that trope), was an outgroup mafia who could kill by posting "Fuck you, [username]" in the thread (a Precision F Strike).

- *A God Am I* was a third-party role that could kill up to three players per night by naming their role _and_ power trope, and would win by killing the final player of the game, which they could do _even after dying_.

- *Mysterious Informants* were vanilla townies except each of them was given a hinted piece of information about the setup, which I hoped would be discussed during day discussions, let people have fun figuring out what they were getting at, and give some otherwise-vanilla innocents _something_ special to do. One of them was told that "language can, in fact, be surprisingly deadly, if employed with enough precision" (hinting at Sir Swearsalot), another was told about the two types of doctors, another about the presence of a mafia doctor, another a hint that there was only one mafia faction, another a hint that the non-sane cop was specifically insane, and another a hint that revealing your true name could be dangerous. I hoped that e.g. the cop Mysterious Informant would reveal their information, allowing the insane cop to deduce with reasonable confidence what their results meant, that the doctor Mysterious Informants would help town strategize around healing, that the true names Mysterious Informant would discourage people from giving out their trope names too easily (to make A God Am I's job harder), that with the help of the Sir Swearsalot Mysterious Informant the town could figure out how their targets were dying, etc.

Other roles in the game were standard or variations on standard roles.


*The Revival*

The design of the revival game was based on the original TV Tropes Mafia, but with various adjustments made for balance, fun, and excising anything that'd been spoiled by virtue of existing in the previous game. Thus:

- I still kept the conflict within the mafia element, but in a different form: there would be a Man Behind The Man, unknown to the rest of the mafia, and the Big Bad would be loyal to them over the rest of the mafia, while the rest of the mafia would be motivated to kill the Man Behind The Man should they find out about them.

- I kept the two kinds of doctors, although I made the mafia doctor outgroup, and there was only one of each of the town healers.

- I kept the Stalker With A Crush, Meta Guy, Death Seeker and Mysterious Informants (with their information adjusted appropriately). Unfortunately, my Mysterious Informant info hinting at the existence of the Man Behind The Man was far too vague and everyone took it to mean the mafia was messing with death flavor or something.

- The Eldritch Abomination's underling became aware of who the Eldritch Abomination was (which they weren't in the original); I hoped this'd lead to more interesting play from the underling, who'd be able to actually play the long game. (In hindsight, I think I should have made them _both_ know about each other, or even given them private communication.)

- Alas, I could not reuse Sir Swearsalot, whose gimmick relied entirely on people being unaware that such a role existed; however, instead I introduced the *Body Snatcher*, another role with a day action triggered by discreetly saying a certain phrase within the thread, which could in theory be noticed by other observant players.

- A God Am I was nerfed. In the original game, people didn't really refrain from giving out their tropes much, and A God Am I cheerfully killed a _lot_ of players from beyond the grave. While that was more okay in a fifty-person game, I didn't want that here. Additionally, their win condition had been a little inane, relying on the idea of them killing the _last_ player, which could only happen if the game happened to proceed such that it'd end up with three or fewer players left, something that'd be in no way under A God Am I's control. Instead, I altered the role to just win in one fell swoop by successfully guessing the tropes of _every_ living player. Initially I said they'd get one guess; then I realized that was _too_ much of a nerf and made it three guesses.


*Mistakes Were Made*

The creation of the setup was pretty rushed, as I was anxious to get the game started at the beginning of April as promised. In addition to the individual role missteps mentioned above, I made several other mistakes in designing and GMing this that I'd like to acknowledge.

_"Not Mafia"_

Players in this game flipped "mafia" or "not mafia" on death, where "mafia" meant the player was one of the _mafia killing roles_, i.e. roles able to inherit the mafia nightkill, and "not mafia" meant not that. This is how I've always generally GMed games on the forums; the original rationale behind doing it this way is that then a mafia flip makes it clear to town when they've made actual progress towards their win condition (roles that flip "not mafia" are roles that the town does not need to kill to win).

However, this just caused a lot of unnecessary confusion and was a really poor game design choice for a game like this. It was not at all obvious what these terms actually _meant_ in flips (obviously people will associate them with _alignment_), and this continued to confuse people throughout the game. VM's role PM in particular talked about "the first non-mafia player to die", meaning non-mafia as in _flips_ not mafia, but there was literally no way for VM to know that it meant that and not alignment. I didn't want to basically confirm JackPK was in some kind of gray area by making some kind of correction, and silently changing how flips worked would have been unfair and even more confusing, so I stuck with what I'd established and hoped it'd be enough for town to have players who were aware this was how flips work in my games, but this was terrible and I'm sorry you all had to deal with this ridiculousness.

_Not Enough Killing_

When I was designing the setup, I threw out and changed a lot of roles from the original TV Tropes Mafia. The original had Praetorian Guards, bodyguards with a 50% chance of deflecting a nightkill back at the killer... which led to the Big Bad getting killed on night zero, and then _again_ on night six. No way was I doing _that_ again; it was a major part of the reason the mafia was doing so badly in that game (the other part mainly being all the backstabbing). A God Am I was overpowered and caused far too many deaths; let's nerf that to not kill anyone. Can't reuse Sir Swearsalot; don't need a terrorist.

I only realized after the game had started that waiiit a minute, the _only_ ways people can die in this are the singular mafia kill, lynches, healer clashes, and lover suicide for the Stalker With A Crush. Odds were there'd only be one death per night, with _maybe_ a stray healer clash here and there but probably negated by the chance of a healer getting the mafia's target. For a 25-person game, this really wasn't enough deaths. The game'd probably drag on for way longer than it should.

After brainstorming solutions with opaltiger, I decided to add in an intervention that _could_ in theory have been intended from the start: the Non Action Guys would be promoted on N2, one Taking A Level In Badass and becoming a town vigilante, one having a Face-Heel Turn and becoming a terrorist (so as not to screw with the game balance too much). That way, we'd start off easy, give most people a chance to contribute, and then we'd get more killing going after the first couple days with the vigilante. Uuuuunfortunately, then Eifie got immediately killed. I considered further interventions but decided against it; the game'd just have to play out. I really should have actually thought about this properly _before_ the game began, of course, and designed it better to make it go quicker without this sort of ad-hoc patching needed.

_A God Am I_

Although the original A God Am I had been too powerful and able to kill too many people, I'd nerfed them too much even after giving them three guesses, because there was _no reasonable way for A God Am I to learn most of the mafia's tropes_, since obviously they wouldn't claim them in-thread, the Meta Guy could only learn the role tropes of _dead_ players, and the Stalker With A Crush could only learn the power tropes of players that could actually target people. The best A God Am I could do was just to look up villain tropes and make a wild guess. Eventually I figured giving Boquise access to graveyard chat would give him more of a fair chance (dead mafia might share something about their roles), but this was a totally bungled role and I'm sorry.

_Reacts_

Last time we played mafia on the forums, reacts were not a thing. With the forum software upgrade, reacts added a new way for players to communicate with each other, and although reacts were mostly used to acknowledge funny posts or express agreement quicker than actually having to type out "I agree with this", they also created a semi-private means of communication between players, which Vipera Magnifica tried to use to signal to the mafia that he was on their side. As it happened they didn't pick up the signaling so no harm was done, and obviously there were no rules against this and to VM it was simply a clever loophole that I don't blame him for making use of. But I should have thought of this and either disabled reacts in the mafia forum or set some very specific rules about how they're allowed to be used.


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## Zori

@Butterfree 
ty for hosting, it was a really fun experience


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## mewtini

Butterfree said:


> I hoped this'd lead to more interesting play from the underling, who'd be able to actually play the long game


oops


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## Mawile

Butterfree said:


> - I still kept the conflict within the mafia element, but in a different form: there would be a Man Behind The Man, unknown to the rest of the mafia, and the Big Bad would be loyal to them over the rest of the mafia, while the rest of the mafia would be motivated to kill the Man Behind The Man should they find out about them.


it's amusing that in the Original Game I was a victim of the mafia conflict (backstabbing) and in this one I was the direct cause of the conflict (being the Man Behind The Man)


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## Herbe

that longpost is SO hot, i love it

God, I had an absolute blast here.
Fun fact: did you know that the lovers claim was spur of the moment? I had no idea how much it would change the game, I just hoped it would buy me and Mawile time. I squandered ALL towncred and still managed to live to D7 :D Literally we were talking about it in our chat and I was like "what if i claim lovers with you :O it would be AWESOME and just might work" except it was a lot, lot more panicky than that.


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## mewtini

Herbe said:


> did you know that the lovers claim was spur of the moment?


i'm going to be mad about this until the day i die
i can't get over the fact that it worked. and that i let it work. UGH! well played sir, i love you and you know this

also yes! i have nothing cool to say about the post-mortem at the moment, but this was just an absolute blast tbh and i'm glad that the players of the original tvt get some closure on this fine day.


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## Novae

the real winner was the quotes we made along the way


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## Butterfree

Did you guys know that I spent a couple of days panicking at opaltiger about how the mafia was going to lose so badly _again_, and seriously considering giving the mafia mooks extra guns


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## Flora

i can't believe I helped mafia win by doing NOTHING

I also can't believe I achieved my Winninger Condition without doin ANYTHING amazing. holy shit mafia is overwhelming


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## Negrek

Big thanks to Butterfree for hosting, and for finally letting us in on what was going on behind the scenes with TVTropes Mafia I. This was a great idea for the first mafia game on Xenforo, and it's great to get some closure on the old TVTropes Mafia with both the endgame reveal and the reprise that actually got to finish. It feels like it's been ages since you've run a mafia game--you should host more often!

Also, a big thanks to all the other players! This game was exactly as much of a wild ride as expected, and that was thanks to all of you. The mafia played masterfully, and every body else seemed to get some real mileage out of their weird roles. The bodyswap shenanigans sure were a thing to watch.

And ultimately, it's not really about who won... It's about the memes we made along the way.


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## Zori

And now I don't feel as sucky for screwing serimachi out of the win

if you exclude the fact that I did it by screwing the rest of the town out of the win as well


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## Herbe

Butterfree said:


> Did you guys know that I spent a couple of days panicking at opaltiger about how the mafia was going to lose so badly _again_, and seriously considering giving the mafia mooks extra guns


omg is that why you brought opaltiger into our scumchat


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## Herbe

forgot i can't edit but also extra guns would have been duly appreciated :> 
glad we managed to secure that win without them though


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## mewtini

i'm just going through all my tvt material before i repress this game into oblivion, please hold


Seshas said:


> I imagine we will look back on this D7 and wonder "Why weren't we trying to find Mafia"


prophet status


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## Zori

@IndigoEmmy
Sorry D:
I needed someone like kyeugh panini mewtini to pull me out from my tunnel


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## mewtini

awwwwww.


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## Zori

I'm going to go and drink read myself to sleep now
waking up bright and fresh for Cats Mafia

I'm sure my mom is happy about this


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## Zori

I heard that being alone in a game thread for 5 years can drive someone insane


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## Stryke

Game well played guys! I had a lot of fun keeping up with this one, and it even taught me to come out of my shell and start contributing more instead of lurking, so thanks for that guys . Plus if this new forum revival is any indication, it seems like mafia will be like this for a good while, which is very exciting! Looking forward to Cats!


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## Zori

I'm going to be honest: although the game pace was slow, I really enjoyed how _consistent_ it was.
That's not something I often see in games above 17 players :P


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## mewtini

s-slow


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## mewtini

oh are we referring to A.E. (After Eifie) time


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## Zori

mewtini said:


> s-slow


sl---
---o---​---w​


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## Zori

mewtini said:


> oh are we referring to A.E. (After Eifie) time


remember how
I basically completely dropped out of the game from EoD1 to D4


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## mewtini

yes. you were missed!


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## Zori

mewtini said:


> yes. you were missed!


missed retroactively
because my actual play started coming in on D6


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## Eifie

Seshas said:


> mewtini said:
> 
> 
> 
> yes. you were missed!
> 
> 
> 
> missed retroactively
> because my actual play started coming in on D6
Click to expand...

I thought you were doing pretty well d1. you were my strongest town for a reason!

btw I would like to remind everyone that Seshas's first vote this game was on kyeugh, for sounding fake


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## mewtini

no, actually missed! i liked your earlygame :p


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## kyeugh

good game y’all! you guys kept me on my toes until the very end. or, well, not quite the very end, but i digress. :p shoutout to my fellow wolves, who did a bang up job. mf lived up to my high expectations of her (god knows she out-mooked me), and herbe really blew me away with his play—it was really great to get to know him a bit this way! and of course huge kudos to my real partner in crime, one ms panini, whose guidance played a role in our victory that cannot be understated. i’m glad you picked me to be your crush, it was a ton of fun! sorry i had to reject you in the end, it only seemed appropriate after all my gratuitous bussing.

props to mewtini-chan-chan for very nearly figuring me out. if only my immense charisma and your commitment to our friendship didn’t prevent you from speaking out... the game was close in the end and might have gone very differently. even if in the end my victory predicated on your annihilation, it was really fun to play a real mafia game with my bestie braintwin. 

thanks to butterfree for setting this up! initially i was pretty pessimistic about this setup, but it worked out () and your flavor posts were delightful.

huge apologies to vm for my completely empty brain. the truth is that i was just not thinking on that level at all. every single outgroup reveals completely blindsided me and i was nowhere near the level of seeking them out, no matter how plain the evidence was. we did you real dirty tbh. for the record my thought process was basically that some outgroup had whispered to you about me, and as far as the conflicting visits thing went, i assumed the deadly doctor would have its own night action so i was just really confused by the conflicting visits and just didn’t think enough about it to reach a normal brain conclusion. just kind of wrote it off as something we’d figure out post-game. imagine the pit in my stomach when i found out the truth, lol. head empty.

anyway, lots of fun! very excited for cats 2019, hopefully i don’t have to betray all my friends again (sorry).


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## Zori

Eifie said:


> I thought you were doing pretty well d1. you were my strongest town for a reason!
> 
> btw I would like to remind everyone that Seshas's first vote this game was on kyeugh, for sounding fake


daily reminder that me D1 reads are probably the most accurate ones I'll have all game


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## Zori

Wait
D1 started on April 9
god that's a long time ago


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## mewtini

the fucking fact that this is the second time you've called me mewtini-chan* this game...... gg skylar. gg. 



kyeugh said:


> your flavor posts were delightful.


also GOD YES for real. magnum opus EoD10 aside, some of the images (ils' house d1 <3) and some other beautiful details (RIP my shsl luck) made me lose my mind


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## mewtini

mewtini said:


> mewtini-chan*


wait, the first time was mewmew-chan. even worse,


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## Zori

I have the distinct honor of being blasted by the death ray in broad daylight


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## Mawile

That day 2 in the original was


Seshas said:


> Wait
> D1 started on April 9
> god that's a long time ago


I no longer understand the passage of time and I didn't realize the game lasted this long


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## Mawile

ignore copypaste error at the top. i was originally gonna write about how day 2 in the original was super weird


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## Zori

me in my head: waaaaaaa kyeugh how could you do this to me
me two days ago: did this to townies on MU


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## mewtini

yeah, but did you exekyeughte them?


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## Butterfree

I should note that I did not write the exekyeughte line, I DMed kyeugh asking if she had a zingy one-liner that she wanted to say as she kills Seshas and she delivered


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## Negrek

Butterfree said:


> I should note that I did not write the exekyeughte line, I DMed kyeugh asking if she had a zingy one-liner that she wanted to say as she kills Seshas and she delivered


kyeugh's been killing it at mafia recently, but this might be the high point tbh


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## M&F

but alright, I will not try to post all my wrap-up thoughts in minion memes-

this was a trying game for sure! I'm a lot better at running mafia than at playing it, if I daresay so, and it felt like we were packing little force to contest town with. we ended up with an astonishing bevy of outgroup helpers -- more than once as a result of GM interference, as it turns out -- but regardless, I feel that we were fortunate to make it all the way like so. not to say I'm chalking our win up to luck, though, because that luck was only enough to effectively make victory out of the grandstandings that some of our folks put on there. seriously, kyeugh, herbe, that was a rally to remember, and I hope you two will

and oh, a fun fact about the matter of death pacing: I actually suggested to the group that we abstain from killing N0, just so as to not kick anyone out early from the first TCoD mafia in ages (and that it'd confuse you all would be a feature, not a bug). ultimately, the reason why we decided against it was that we figured it was going to take forever to kill our way through 25 entire players. seems that was a nice catch, after all, huh?

now hopefully, once we're back to games that are more like standard-size, we'll also be able to expect more consistent pacing, and not all the posts followed by none of the posts-


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## Kratos Aurion

If I may barge into y'all's lovely thread for a moment (someone's gotta reminisce about dear old TVTM the First, after all)...



Butterfree said:


> and an additional mafia member was a Minion With An F In Evil, who was secretly aligned with the innocents but was forbidden from naming or hinting at the identities of their fellow mafia members within the thread.


oh thank god, he was actually innocent-aligned

I felt bad about offing Superbird since ostensibly we should've been on the same team but I just got _so annoyed_ with him—honestly unreasonably, reading back, he really wasn't as obnoxious as I seem to have thought at the time—so boy do I feel slightly-less-bad about that now that I know he was technically innocent, haha. I did my job kind of okay!

...and then I merked the mafdoc and went and voted off a bunch of other mafia :D

Also lol at the number of times the mafia tried to kill me and people were scrambling all over themselves to protect me :D I would six-foot hug Espeon if he were still here, awwww. So many people determined to make sure I'm actually allowed to play a game of mafia! If only they knew that this time they shouldn't have bothered!

And so it remains the case that when I'm innocent I don't survive to endgame 99.99999% of the time (and usually die in the first three milliseconds of N0), and when I'm mafia I last for a respectably long time but do an abhorrent job of actually playing to my win condition. Oh well!

Anyway! Enough about me being bad at mafia a million years ago. This was an amazing game to watch on all accounts! I wish I could've joined you guys, but I know I didn't have the ability to keep up with it... and especially after those first two days ended up being the way they were, dear god. But they were wonderful days to follow along at a slightly more reasonable pace. Fun to try and sort, top-notch memery, and just watching everyone have a good time was fantastic.

Also I had a gut feeling from the beginning that at least one of kyeugh/mewtini was nontown leading the village by the nose, so yay? But I couldn't substantiate that logically because they both played _so damn well_. (Though I suppose mewtini was actually shrugtown for most of the game anyway, so towny play makes more sense...) I'm super impressed by everybody, but especially you two. The town absolutely did the best they could with what they had, at the end in particular, and the swap shenanigans were a cool idea, but... yeah. Just damn.

Hopefully I'll be able to get my head screwed on straight one of these days and actually get to die on N0 play with you beautiful people again, aw.


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## Kratos Aurion

Oop, forgot a thing. Yes, big thanks to Butterfree for putting this together—even just spectating was a blast. And thanks for finally dragging v1 out into the light for us to see! A shame that we weren't able to finish, but this was a worthy successor even so.


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## mewtini

Kratos Aurion said:


> Also I had a gut feeling from the beginning that at least one of kyeugh/mewtini was nontown leading the village by the nose, so yay? But I couldn't substantiate that logically because they both played _so damn well_. (Though I suppose mewtini was actually shrugtown for most of the game anyway, so towny play makes more sense...)


oh, thanks!! i'm both surprised and very glad that my first game shenanigans inspired this emotion honestly.
(also i wish i had had that gut feeling about kyeugh tbh ... ! she played _too_ well)



Kratos Aurion said:


> Hopefully I'll be able to get my head screwed on straight one of these days and actually get to die on N0 play with you beautiful people again, aw.


kratos ... pls


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## IndigoClaudia

*I TOLD YOU SO.*


----------



## IndigoClaudia

A few thoughts on quotes:



Kyeugh said:


> "Town just got exekyeughted ,"


Best lines 2020



Butterfree said:


> Her house is adorable and full of cute Pokémon. There is not a suspicious business card in sight.


This is my favorite line all game Imao but only because of advertising



Butterfree said:


> - *Sir Swearsalot*, my favorite role (and not only because I created that trope), was an outgroup mafia who could kill by posting "Fuck you, [username]" in the thread (a Precision F Strike).


 xD i would have loved to be this. I also wonder how a musical world theory trope thingy would fit into this game, since we went on to the "tropes that butterfree made." (Don't ask how i know that butterfree made that)


----------



## IndigoClaudia

Butterfree said:


> Her house is adorable and full of cute Pokémon.


Butterfree neglected to mention one suspicious thing in said "house"
...

Shady Bootlegged Vietnamese Video Games!

Thats enough to qualify as mafia right? XD


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