# Reverse Mafia [D3]



## M&F (Aug 15, 2011)

The sun rose on the vilest, most crime-corrupted town history has ever known.

Suckers walked the streets, unaware that killings, robberies, rapes, arsons and jaywalkings were equally common at all times. The only difference is that the night provided the cover needed not for additional crimes, but, for gathering.

As the town was about to learn, however, this deplorable situation could and would be challenged.

*48 hours for day actions.*


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## M&F (Aug 17, 2011)

*Re: Reverse Mafia [N1]*

As the sun set, unaware citizens frequently stumbled upon one shocking sight: a dead man, right in the middle of the street. If it wasn't for the sheer amount of calls, the police wouldn't have budged; they hear about people getting killed every day and most of the time it's just deals gone wrong because at least one party involved was a complete idiot.

Information about that crime scene wouldn't be confined to a police station, of course. Most of it would find itself sloshing about in the whispers of criminals and syndicates as the night fell and the scum took action.

*Mai is dead. It was scum.*

*48 hours for discussion.*


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## Light (Aug 17, 2011)

*Re: Reverse Mafia [N1]*

Hahahahah. That Mai. They're always getting killed in every mafia game. What a chum.


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## DarkAura (Aug 17, 2011)

*Re: Reverse Mafia [N1]*

dont laugh!

Anyway, does any corrupt inspector have anything?


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## Chief Zackrai (Aug 17, 2011)

*Re: Reverse Mafia [N1]*

It's weird, though, because Mai usually lasts a long time. She's a really good player, and that's good for us, but not if she's dead. This mafia either knows exactly what they're doing, or they took a wild stab in the dark.

Either way, I'm afraid of this mafia O.o


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## DarkAura (Aug 17, 2011)

*Re: Reverse Mafia [N1]*

You mean innocents (XD)


but since my role is almost completely uniportant

I'm a corrupt beloved princess.

if i lose the game, the next night phase, everyone gets two votes.

I hate my role! (nah, it just seems unimportant)


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## Light (Aug 17, 2011)

*Re: Reverse Mafia [N1]*



DarkAura said:


> dont laugh!


What, are you saying you're..._innocent_??


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## DarkAura (Aug 17, 2011)

*Re: Reverse Mafia [N1]*

no, i'm scum, i just said dont laugh cause mai keeps on dying the first nights (and its making me feel sad)


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## Hiikaru (Aug 17, 2011)

*Re: Reverse Mafia [N1]*

*Metallica Fanboy:* Since you don't seem to have a rules list anywhere... Is PM communication allowed? Also, does flavour text mean anything?



Doc Scratch said:


> It's weird, though, because Mai usually lasts a long time. She's a really good player, and that's good for us, but not if she's dead. This mafia either knows exactly what they're doing, or they took a wild stab in the dark.
> 
> Either way, I'm afraid of this mafia O.o


What does Mai being a good player have to do with it dying? Someone targeted it, now it's dead. You can't prevent your death just by virtue of being a "good player" - if anything, that makes you more likely to be targeted by mafia or by doctors (overdose is a thing!), so better players are *more* likely to die, not less. There isn't anything particularly scary about a "mafia" (they're the "innocents") that can target people, every mafia can do that. It's the discussion that's a big deal, not so much the actions.

Also why does a mafia have to know "exactly what they're doing" to kill someone who looks like a good player? Even if you've never played mafia before, you could just read old threads and see who's doing a good job and who isn't. That doesn't say anything about how intelligent or otherwise the mafia is.

(also actually experienced mafia sometimes kill apparently inexperienced or bad or useless players on purpose!)



DarkAura said:


> I'm a corrupt beloved princess.
> 
> if i lose the game, the next night phase, everyone gets two votes.


If you're really beloved princess, how can you possibly think telling anyone is a good idea? Killing you skips a talk-phase, which means you're an ideal target since that's basically a free pass to target someone else the next action-phase without worrying about anyone discussing and figuring out anything, or about any of their team being lynched that time.

Also "votes"? People don't vote in the actions-phase, they just send in their night actions if they happen to have any, which isn't really anything like voting.


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## M&F (Aug 17, 2011)

*Re: Reverse Mafia [N1]*



			
				Hiikaru ♥;522342 said:
			
		

> *Metallica Fanboy:* Since you don't seem to have a rules list anywhere... Is PM communication allowed? Also, does flavour text mean anything?


No PM communication unless otherwise stated, and it doesn't mean a lot.



			
				Hiikaru ♥;522342 said:
			
		

> Also "votes"? People don't vote in the actions-phase, they just send in their night actions if they happen to have any, which isn't really anything like voting.


Nights and days are reversed in this game; hence, you're discussing the events of the previous day phase, during this night phase.


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## DarkAura (Aug 17, 2011)

*Re: Reverse Mafia [N1]*

by vote, i mean every scum has 2 lynches.

Plus, my role...i do not like it....


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## Eifie (Aug 17, 2011)

*Re: Reverse Mafia [N1]*



DarkAura said:


> but since my role is almost completely uniportant
> 
> I'm a corrupt beloved princess.
> 
> ...


Not thinking your role is important is really, really not a good reason to reveal it. :( Keeping the innocents from knowing who _not_ to target is a pretty good idea! Roles that seem useless could at least still be potential targets for the innocents if left unclaimed and that could keep an important role safe for another day; that does end up being pretty useful.

Well, now that that claim's out in the open, that _does_ seem like... a completely useless power. Useless enough that I wonder if the GM would really bother including a role like that in this game... I mean, there wouldn't really be any point in voting for two separate people (unless that power means that two people can be lynched in one night?) so that'd just change the scale. And why would a beloved princess being corrupted bring about that kind of change in what its role does? Well. By losing the game, I assume you mean being killed?



Doc Scratch said:


> It's weird, though, because Mai usually lasts a long time. She's a really good player, and that's good for us, but not if she's dead. This mafia either knows exactly what they're doing, or they took a wild stab in the dark.
> 
> Either way, I'm afraid of this mafia O.o


It wouldn't really be particularly hard for anyone to look at a few past games and notice that Mai tends to actually contribute, would it? I don't know, I think Mai's death seems pretty unindicative.


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## Chief Zackrai (Aug 17, 2011)

*Re: Reverse Mafia [N1]*



			
				Hiikaru ♥;522342 said:
			
		

> What does Mai being a good player have to do with it dying? Someone targeted it, now it's dead. You can't prevent your death just by virtue of being a "good player" - if anything, that makes you more likely to be targeted by mafia or by doctors (overdose is a thing!), so better players are *more* likely to die, not less. There isn't anything particularly scary about a "mafia" (they're the "innocents") that can target people, every mafia can do that. It's the discussion that's a big deal, not so much the actions.


Right, but it's out of trend, so it's a little unsettling. I wasn't saying good players are less likely to die- I'm quite aware that it makes them more of a target. The thing is though, despite the fact Mai is a really good player, she tends to live a long time for some reason. This string if first night death for her is a little weird. That's all I was saying.



> Also why does a mafia have to know "exactly what they're doing" to kill someone who looks like a good player? Even if you've never played mafia before, you could just read old threads and see who's doing a good job and who isn't. That doesn't say anything about how intelligent or otherwise the mafia is.
> 
> (also actually experienced mafia sometimes kill apparently inexperienced or bad or useless players on purpose!)


I know from experience (on the innocent, mafia, and GM side of things) that if a mafia is less experienced, they tend to make a random kill the first night. Once they get a little more used to it and get more of a sense of how this works, their kills start to make more sense. I was just saying it is more likely that the people who are the innocents (mafia) in this game likely know how this works pretty well, due to their choice of first kill. And you've completely disregarded the second part of my statement! I said "Either they know exactly what they're doing, *or* They took a wild stab in the dark". True, it does seem more likely they have some sort of intelligence on their side, but I didn't say that that was absolutely it. Yes, it is possible they took a look into past threads and said "oh hey, she's good at this let's kill her", but I was just putting into the conversation what I thought might have happened.


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## Eifie (Aug 17, 2011)

*Re: Reverse Mafia [N1]*



DarkAura said:


> by vote, i mean every scum has 2 lynches.


Oh! Well. That's kind of an important detail, then.

That doesn't seem like a beloved princess role at all, though. The GM said that innocents and mafia being switched could bring about changes in what a role does, but this completely changes the purpose of that role. The beloved princess is supposed to be an innocent-aligned role that's not actually beneficial to the innocents to help balance things out in a game. The role you're describing seems to be a mafia-aligned role that... does help out the mafia? I guess it's _possible_... although in that case lynching you would be beneficial to us and maybe it's something we should consider. If you're lying and innocent, we'll find out, and if you're not, we could use that power the next night to find out if two people are the same alignment (by having them vote against each other). We'd have to save that for later, though; that wouldn't be useful right now.

EDIT: Wait, do you mean that mafia-aligned players get two votes, or that two people can be lynched the next night phase?


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## DarkAura (Aug 17, 2011)

*Re: Reverse Mafia [N1]*

go ahead, lynch me now. I'll be scum AND the scum will get 2 lynches teh next night phase.

It's atually good if i'm lynched


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## Light (Aug 17, 2011)

*Re: Reverse Mafia [N1]*

Just the scum get 2 votes? I'm a little confused on how that would work. What's to stop us from killing her, picking a random target, and saying, "ok, vote twice if you can, otherwise vote once and we'll know whether you're innocent".


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## DarkAura (Aug 17, 2011)

*Re: Reverse Mafia [N1]*

well, basiclly everyone gets 2 lynchings (i have to PM MF to clarify it more)

And its not THIS night phase. its the night phase after i lose

So if i lose on a day #, 2 lynchings the next night

If i lose on night #, then the day phase goes on and the night phase gives everyone 2 lynchings.


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## Light (Aug 17, 2011)

*Re: Reverse Mafia [N1]*

Yeah I meant the next night phase. And also you might like to know that you can win with your team even if you are dead.


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## Wargle (Aug 18, 2011)

*Re: Reverse Mafia [N1]*

Day night reversal make Wargle confuse.

Mai died? She's always Mafia(/Innocent here) Not really but if The mafia outs all good players but a few then it might be a really good indicator that they're mafia(/Innocent?)


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## DarkAura (Aug 18, 2011)

*Re: Reverse Mafia [N1]*

Eifie~no two people are lycnhed, everyone gets 2 votes (they can put their vote like 2 votes for one person or 1 vote for two people

Wargle~ The uninformed majority are the scum, and the informed minority are the innocent. its the exact same thing as normal mafia, just with naming switched around.

Now, are you gonna lynch me so i can prove i'm scum and you'll get 2 lynches, or should i stay in the game?


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## Phantom (Aug 18, 2011)

*Re: Reverse Mafia [N1]*

I never got a PM.


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## M&F (Aug 18, 2011)

*Re: Reverse Mafia [N1]*



Phantom said:


> I never got a PM.


When did you join? I recall closing entries when we had 15 players.


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## Phantom (Aug 18, 2011)

*Re: Reverse Mafia [N1]*

I must have ninja'd in. Go ahead and kill me then.


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## Squirrel (Aug 18, 2011)

*Re: Reverse Mafia [N1]*



DarkAura said:


> Eifie~no two people are lycnhed, everyone gets 2 votes (they can put their vote like 2 votes for one person or 1 vote for two people
> Now, are you gonna lynch me so i can prove i'm scum and you'll get 2 lynches, or should i stay in the game?


Egging everyone on like that isn't exactly the best idea in a Mafia game. We have plenty of time to discuss things.
And I'm not accusing you of being Innocent this early on, but in another game, I definitely remember someone (RK10, I think) with a strange roleclaim that ended up being a coverup for him being Mafia. Your role seems kind of odd.


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## RK-9 (Aug 18, 2011)

*Re: Reverse Mafia [N1]*

wat


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## Squirrel (Aug 18, 2011)

*Re: Reverse Mafia [N1]*

Oh, that wasn't you? Sorry. I just think I remember reading a game where someone fakeclaimed with something really obscure and odd, got called out, pretended it was a joke, and turned out to be Mafia. And the Corrupt Princess role seems like it has a really strange power.


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## RK-9 (Aug 18, 2011)

*Re: Reverse Mafia [N1]*

Possibly my jokeclaim of arceus silencing me because it declared my metronome roll of judgement illegal.

Okay that sounds odd


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## DarkAura (Aug 18, 2011)

*Re: Reverse Mafia [N1]*

i'm thr beloved princess, except, since this is reverse mafia, i'm corrupted.

And i have gotten beloved princess before.


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## Eifie (Aug 18, 2011)

*Re: Reverse Mafia [N1]*



DarkAura said:


> Eifie~no two people are lycnhed, everyone gets 2 votes (they can put their vote like 2 votes for one person or 1 vote for two people


So two people can be lynched in one talk-phase _and_ everybody (not just mafia) gets two votes? Well, I guess having two votes makes a bit more sense if two people can be lynched, at least.



DarkAura said:


> Now, are you gonna lynch me so i can prove i'm scum and you'll get 2 lynches, or should i stay in the game?


First off, what good is it to prove that you're mafia if you're dead? Second, lynching you right now to use that power would be a terrible idea; what would be the point of having two lynches while we've got no ideas at all as to who to lynch? It'd be better to save your claimed power until a time when using it might be strategic, although by claiming for no reason you've kind of given up that advantage; the innocents could kill you to activate your power any time they choose, now. :|


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## DarkAura (Aug 18, 2011)

*Re: Reverse Mafia [N1]*

well, is there like a healer?


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## Zapi (Aug 18, 2011)

*Re: Reverse Mafia [N1]*

^ If there is one, I highly doubt they'd claim on N1.
Sorry I haven't posted yet, totally forgot to subscribe to this thread...


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## Eifie (Aug 18, 2011)

*Re: Reverse Mafia [N1]*



DarkAura said:


> well, is there like a healer?


Well, as you've said yourself, your role is pretty insignificant; I wouldn't expect a doctor to go out of eir way to target you, if that's what you mean. It would be _convenient_ to be able to kill you and activate your power whenever we'd like, but I don't think having two lynches and two votes once when we choose to is so big a deal that a doctor need use up eir action to keep you alive when ey could be healing somebody else. I can't actually think of a situation right now in which having two lynches and two votes would actually be _necessary_ for the town; at most it'd only be a way to speed things up. Also, I'm wondering whether the voting for the two lynches would occur concurrently or separately (i.e., whether the two people with the most votes at the end of the night would both be lynched at the same time, or the person with the most votes would be lynched and then the town could revote to have a second person lynched). *Metallica Fanboy*: Could you clarify how the two lynches would work if a role like the one DarkAura's claimed existed? (Or I guess DarkAura could PM Metallica Fanboy to ask and then tell us, or something. Well, this isn't particularly important, anyway.)


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## DarkAura (Aug 18, 2011)

*Re: Reverse Mafia [N1]*

I'll PM him. Hang on...


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## DarkAura (Aug 18, 2011)

*Re: Reverse Mafia [N1]*

Sorry for the double post

I just had it clarifyed.

Now, everyone gets to lynch two different people. Not just the scum, everyone. The two with the most votes get lynched.

So two people get lynched. (oh, and you cant have 2 votes for the same person)


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## Eifie (Aug 19, 2011)

*Re: Reverse Mafia [N1]*



DarkAura said:


> Sorry for the double post
> 
> I just had it clarifyed.
> 
> ...


Oh, okay. So that's basically like skipping an action-phase. Which is the complete opposite of what the beloved princess is supposed to do normally, yes, but because you're claiming your alignment hasn't changed to go with that that's still kind of missing the entire point of the role; I'm not quite sure I believe you.

Well. Apparently we've got only a bit over an hour left for this talk-phase, and the discussion hasn't actually turned to today's lynch, yet! Um. Has anyone got any ideas? Legend, Flora, Glace, Bobino, and Superbird haven't posted at all so far. :|


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## DarkAura (Aug 19, 2011)

*Re: Reverse Mafia [N1]*



Eifie said:


> Oh, okay. So that's basically like skipping an action-phase. Which is the complete opposite of what the beloved princess is supposed to do normally, yes, but because you're claiming your alignment hasn't changed to go with that that's still kind of missing the entire point of the role; I'm not quite sure I believe you.
> 
> Well. Apparently we've got only a bit over an hour left for this talk-phase, and the discussion hasn't actually turned to today's lynch, yet! Um. Has anyone got any ideas? Legend, Flora, Glace, Bobino, and Superbird haven't posted at all so far. :|


If you dont believe me, thats ok. Because if you lynch me, it'll be good for the scum, so i'm not worried.


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## Hiikaru (Aug 19, 2011)

*Re: Reverse Mafia [N1]*

*Metallica Fanboy:* Does a lynch-vote have to be in the majority of everyone alive for the person to be lynched, or is it based on something else like out of how many people who even voted?



> I know from experience (on the innocent, mafia, and GM side of things) that if a mafia is less experienced, they tend to make a random kill the first night. Once they get a little more used to it and get more of a sense of how this works, their kills start to make more sense. I was just saying it is more likely that the people who are the innocents (mafia) in this game likely know how this works pretty well, due to their choice of first kill. And you've completely disregarded the second part of my statement! I said "Either they know exactly what they're doing, or They took a wild stab in the dark". True, it does seem more likely they have some sort of intelligence on their side, but I didn't say that that was absolutely it. Yes, it is possible they took a look into past threads and said "oh hey, she's good at this let's kill her", but I was just putting into the conversation what I thought might have happened.


Why does it have to be one or the other? A mafia can know only sort of what they're doing - they don't have to be either perfect or "taking a wild stab in the dark", that's silly. And if it's really one or the other, or even if you add an in between, that still doesn't tell us anything about how good the mafia is because they *could* be taking a "wild stab in the dark." Or they're not taking a wild stab in the dark, but they looked at past games and went "oh, Mai seems decent," without knowing _exactly_ what they're doing.

The fact that you've GMed mafias who attack randomly doesn't really mean anything, either. Different people act differently when they're new at mafia! Some people submit random actions for a while as they try to figure out what's going on, and some people look at everything and make sure they're as sure as they can be before even playing, and then they think really hard about their actions based on what they learned. It's easy to assume that because of what you've personally seen that every player ever would act exactly that way, but lots of players would act differently! You just happen to have seen people acting a certain way, that's all.

It shouldn't be disconcerting when someone who doesn't die often suddenly dies. A game of mafia doesn't go "oh, this person hasn't died in a while, I guess I'll keep them alive." The game isn't sentient it can't do that! (or if it _were_ mysteriously sentient, I'd think it would kill the person just to change things around a bit.) Sometimes people don't die for a while and then die. It doesn't mean anything, it isn't scary or eerie or confusing or disconcerting, it's just a thing that happened.



> Well, as you've said yourself, your role is pretty insignificant; I wouldn't expect a doctor to go out of eir way to target you, if that's what you mean. It would be convenient to be able to kill you and activate your power whenever we'd like, but I don't think having two lynches and two votes once when we choose to is so big a deal that a doctor need use up eir action to keep you alive when ey could be healing somebody else. I can't actually think of a situation right now in which having two lynches and two votes would actually be necessary for the town; at most it'd only be a way to speed things up. Also, I'm wondering whether the voting for the two lynches would occur concurrently or separately (i.e., whether the two people with the most votes at the end of the night would both be lynched at the same time, or the person with the most votes would be lynched and then the town could revote to have a second person lynched). Metallica Fanboy: Could you clarify how the two lynches would work if a role like the one DarkAura's claimed existed? (Or I guess DarkAura could PM Metallica Fanboy to ask and then tell us, or something. Well, this isn't particularly important, anyway.)


I'm inclined to agree that lynching DarkAura right now is silly. We'd just be discussing the same nothing we're discussing right now! We don't have anything to go on except oh no, the innocents killed someone who kind of actually plays mafia they must be the best minority players ever only no not really.

I guess you could argue that if we don't have anyone better to lynch, we might as well, but DarkAura's sort of on our side if she's telling the truth, and at the very least if she's alive she can help us to keep our numbers up, which is good. If we just kill every maybe-scum who isn't really useful, eventually the innocents would outnumber us. Also the innocents _might_ kill DarkAura, but they have just as little reason to as we do, and a reason not to, which is that they want to be able to use their kill. Postponing day actions could help the mafia if they needed to do something during the night, but right now that shouldn't be the case.

We could lynch someone else instead, but at this point our best option is kind of just to do random lynch, and that's... frequently pretty useless. We *might* hit the innocents, and that would be good, but we could also hit scum. If the scum-person isn't contributing, it wouldn't matter too much, but we don't even know what our chances are of hitting innocents! And there might be other roles like beloved princess that have weird effects, so hitting one of them could be dangerous.



> Well. Apparently we've got only a bit over an hour left for this talk-phase, and the discussion hasn't actually turned to today's lynch, yet! Um. Has anyone got any ideas? Legend, Flora, Glace, Bobino, and Superbird haven't posted at all so far. :|


Inactive lynches are kind of annoying! :( Lots of people are like "well these people aren't talkative mafia are like that >:(" but why shouldn't mafia realize that and... talk? Except lots of mafia _refuse to talk anyway_ sigh.

(also it's annoying that if we hit an innocent that way then that would be like cheating and not like _really_ playing. :( But I guess then we'd have at least done something!)

Also most of those people (who is Bobino??) seem like they basically never play mafia (and by "play" I mean "talks" not "joins and then wanders off for the rest of the game"), so I guess at the least we'd be lynching someone who isn't a contributing member.

Also! If we leave maybe-useless people around, then they might end up taking kills instead of useful people! The innocents ought to be trying really hard not to kill useless people but they could decide to for some reason or the useless people could get hit for other reasons, like a redirect role. That's not likely enough that we shouldn't kill them if it would be useful, though.

We might have to do random/inactive lynches regardless, so I guess really what we should decide is if it's worth it _now_ when we have bigger numbers and can afford to do slightly risky lynches or if it isn't worth it until we're starting to run out of time.


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## Chief Zackrai (Aug 19, 2011)

*Re: Reverse Mafia [N1]*



			
				Hiikaru ♥;522847 said:
			
		

> Why does it have to be one or the other? A mafia can know only sort of what they're doing - they don't have to be either perfect or "taking a wild stab in the dark", that's silly. And if it's really one or the other, or even if you add an in between, that still doesn't tell us anything about how good the mafia is because they *could* be taking a "wild stab in the dark." Or they're not taking a wild stab in the dark, but they looked at past games and went "oh, Mai seems decent," without knowing _exactly_ what they're doing.
> 
> The fact that you've GMed mafias who attack randomly doesn't really mean anything, either. Different people act differently when they're new at mafia! Some people submit random actions for a while as they try to figure out what's going on, and some people look at everything and make sure they're as sure as they can be before even playing, and then they think really hard about their actions based on what they learned. It's easy to assume that because of what you've personally seen that every player ever would act exactly that way, but lots of players would act differently! You just happen to have seen people acting a certain way, that's all.
> 
> It shouldn't be disconcerting when someone who doesn't die often suddenly dies. A game of mafia doesn't go "oh, this person hasn't died in a while, I guess I'll keep them alive." The game isn't sentient it can't do that! (or if it _were_ mysteriously sentient, I'd think it would kill the person just to change things around a bit.) Sometimes people don't die for a while and then die. It doesn't mean anything, it isn't scary or eerie or confusing or disconcerting, it's just a thing that happened.


I never said that's what it had to be. You did. I just said that's what it seems to me, and even then I was just outlining trends. I never even refuted you! I was actually agreeing with you, but I did point out one thing you overlooked.

And I'm not saying it was eerie or confusing (how did you even get the impression I thought it was confusing, it makes perfect sense), it's just Mai can be a real asset for the innocents, and the fact she died the first night isn't exactly the best things for us. (well, any innocent dieing isn't exactly the best thing for us, but someone like Mai is worse)

And I'm sorry my wording may not be the best, but I just write what I'm thinking, alright? There's no need to go on tirades about the flaws in my statements.

I was just trying to help :/


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## Eifie (Aug 19, 2011)

*Re: Reverse Mafia [N1]*



DarkAura said:


> If you dont believe me, thats ok. Because if you lynch me, it'll be good for the scum, so i'm not worried.


It's not quite that simple. It isn't a good thing for us to just throw away players on our side, if you happen to be one. As the uninformed majority, the only sure things we've got going for us against the innocents are our numbers and being able to lynch during the talk-phase. Keeping this advantage is pretty important, since it's probably the only way we can win! And not lynching someone during the talk-phase means that the innocents would have to kill em during the action-phase to get rid of em; while that's happening, they're not killing anybody else.

I don't really think your power is that good for the mafia, especially not so much that it'd be worth using up a lynch and losing a mafia member. (You even seemed to think your role was useless yourself when you first claimed!) What even makes lynching you and then lynching two people the next talk-phase different from lynching one of those two people instead of lynching you and then lynching the second the next talk-phase, if you're really mafia? The two things I can think of are that we'd definitely lose one of our number unnecessarily and we _might_ have more information to go on the next night to choose two people to lynch, or we might not. And I'm still unable to think of any situation where being able to lynch two people in one talk-phase would be necessary, and even if one came up, we'd have to be able to predict that the night before and lynch you then, or you'd have to die during the day.



			
				Hiikaru ♥;522847 said:
			
		

> [all the words ever]


I agree; inactive lynches _are_ annoying. :c I guess for now it'd be better not to lynch, since we've got no _reason_ to suspect anybody (except DarkAura a bit) and lynching somebody random because ey _might_ be innocent because anyone could be innocent is no fun! I'll go ahead and vote *no lynch*, then.


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## DarkAura (Aug 19, 2011)

*Re: Reverse Mafia [N1]*

*abstain*


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## Chief Zackrai (Aug 19, 2011)

*Re: Reverse Mafia [N1]*

Works for me. *Abstain.*


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## Squirrel (Aug 19, 2011)

*Re: Reverse Mafia [N1]*

*Abstain*. Day Night (so confusing!) 1 is always the worst.


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## Hiikaru (Aug 19, 2011)

*Re: Reverse Mafia [N1]*



Doc Scratch said:


> I never said that's what it had to be. You did. I just said that's what it seems to me, and even then I was just outlining trends. I never even refuted you! I was actually agreeing with you, but I did point out one thing you overlooked.
> 
> And I'm not saying it was eerie or confusing (how did you even get the impression I thought it was confusing, it makes perfect sense), it's just Mai can be a real asset for the innocents, and the fact she died the first night isn't exactly the best things for us. (well, any innocent dieing isn't exactly the best thing for us, but someone like Mai is worse)
> 
> ...


I'm sorry if you were bothered!

The big thing is that you seemed to find it really odd that Mai would die, when it's not odd at all, so I was trying to explain why it's not! It's important that all the players understand things like that so they can play more effectively later!

Mafia isn't a game of sending in actions and hoping, it's a game of talking!  So I'm certainly not trying to discourage you from saying what you think (please do! it's always more interesting the more people say!), just talking back! You're _supposed_ to argue with others and explain things - that's pretty much the point! So try not to be bothered when people do that in the future, it's not personal, they're just playing!

(also it's hardly "tirades" - writing short posts is hard, writing long posts is easy. The long posts don't mean "tirades", they just mean that in general I get really frustrated trying to write short posts!)



> It's not quite that simple. It isn't a good thing for us to just throw away players on our side, if you happen to be one. As the uninformed majority, the only sure things we've got going for us against the innocents are our numbers and being able to lynch during the talk-phase. Keeping this advantage is pretty important, since it's probably the only way we can win! And not lynching someone during the talk-phase means that the innocents would have to kill em during the action-phase to get rid of em; while that's happening, they're not killing anybody else.
> 
> I don't really think your power is that good for the mafia, especially not so much that it'd be worth using up a lynch and losing a mafia member. (You even seemed to think your role was useless yourself when you first claimed!) What even makes lynching you and then lynching two people the next talk-phase different from lynching one of those two people instead of lynching you and then lynching the second the next talk-phase, if you're really mafia? The two things I can think of are that we'd definitely lose one of our number unnecessarily and we might have more information to go on the next night to choose two people to lynch, or we might not. And I'm still unable to think of any situation where being able to lynch two people in one talk-phase would be necessary, and even if one came up, we'd have to be able to predict that the night before and lynch you then, or you'd have to die during the day.


I was thinking it could be useful in the same way party pooper's occasionally useful, only I guess it's not really the same as that, so, I'm having trouble thinking of a good use for it, too. I guess if we really needed to avoid some day-action then it could be good, or if we really needed to lynch two people suddenly, but you're right that we'd have to be able to predict that, and we probably wouldn't be able to.

Regardless, there's no point in using it when we don't have anyone in mind to lynch at all, let alone two people, so we may as well wait to see if a situation happens where we'd need to!



> I agree; inactive lynches are annoying. :c I guess for now it'd be better not to lynch, since we've got no reason to suspect anybody (except DarkAura a bit) and lynching somebody random because ey might be innocent because anyone could be innocent is no fun! I'll go ahead and vote no lynch, then.


And then we'll have more options the next night when we possibly have a little more information, I guess! It pretty much seems better right now to wait for more to happen and for more people to talk before we try lynching.

I _guess_ *abstain*, too, even if that's also kind of annoying.


----------



## M&F (Aug 19, 2011)

*Re: Reverse Mafia [N1]*

Even with all the means of information-gathering available, there was no finding out who offed Mai. There were suspicions of innocents being behind it, but none were particularly founded. People could get killed for any given thing in that town really, the lack of evidence was the strange part. Evidence was usually gone every other crime, but at least, whoever made it disappear would tell somebody.

*No one was lynched.*

*48 hours for day actions.*


----------



## M&F (Aug 22, 2011)

*Re: Reverse Mafia [D1]*

DarkAura was a one-of-a-kind sort. Even within a town of nothing but crime, she's managed to do crime in such a gruesome way, the criminals hated her. So when she was found dead in the middle of the main street for all to see, there was celebration.

That night, the criminals felt a spur of inspiration. It felt like a great time to smoke out some innocents.

*DarkAura is dead. She was scum.*

*DarkAura was a Loathed Druglord.*

Tonight, two players can be lynched (the two most voted will be) and everybody can vote twice (not twice on the same person, however). Abstinence will not be permitted.

*48 hours for discussion.*


----------



## Eifie (Aug 22, 2011)

*Re: Reverse Mafia [D1]*



Metallica Fanboy said:


> Abstinence will not be permitted.


Well um this is somewhat worse than I thought, then. :( Has anyone got any information that could help us not end up accidentally lynching two scum today?


----------



## Squirrel (Aug 22, 2011)

*Re: Reverse Mafia [N2]*

Preferrably without unneccesary roleclaims that'll make it easier for the innocents to decide who they target next.


----------



## Wargle (Aug 22, 2011)

*Re: Reverse Mafia [N2]*

Oh dear. Maybe we should have learned who was not scum before getting two votes...


----------



## Superbird (Aug 23, 2011)

*Re: Reverse Mafia [N2]*

Ouch. 

Well, this sucks. We're gonna have to out someone. So who?


----------



## Light (Aug 23, 2011)

*Re: Reverse Mafia [N2]*

Let's just inactive lynch *Glace* and *Bobino*.


----------



## Zero Moment (Aug 23, 2011)

*Re: Reverse Mafia [N2]*

So, since I am not able to participate regularly in the game, and I want to say this in the case I get killed; I am the Stalker (Corrupt Watcher) and neither Doc Scratch nor Hikaru targeted anyone Day 0 or Day 1, respectively. Now, I'm not confirming anyone as Scum or Town, but at least we know that neither of them is doing the killing.
They may be Vanilla Town or something, or have no night actions (Nexus, Bulletproof, Vanilla Scum, ect.)
Bandwagoning on *Glace* and *Bobino*.


----------



## Glace (Aug 23, 2011)

*Re: Reverse Mafia [N2]*

I'm vanilla -- I haven't had anything to offer, if that explains my inactivity. Any posts of mine would have been useless because I have nothing to contribute to the conversation.


----------



## Eifie (Aug 23, 2011)

*Re: Reverse Mafia [N2]*

Well, I guess if we've got to lynch twice, nobody's got any leads, and nobody's really talked enough for us to try to figure out who might be innocent, we'll just have to lynch two inactive people since that'd be the smallest loss for us. Bobino hasn't even been online since the game started, but ey's already got two votes and I see no need to add mine since it wouldn't make a difference and would only make it harder for us to withdraw our votes if we changed our minds. We've got some sort of indication from Glace that he's at least paying attention to the game, so I'll vote for *Flower Doll*, then, since I think she's the only one left who hasn't posted at all. :c (It seems like it's not _necessary_ for me to use both of my votes? I guess I'll add another one later if it is.)



Glace said:


> I'm vanilla -- I haven't had anything to offer, if that explains my inactivity. Any posts of mine would have been useless because I have nothing to contribute to the conversation.


You don't _need_ a role to have something to talk about. :( The point of the game is to figure things out based on discussion, not just night actions (sitting around abstaining and voting off inactive people until some role gives us information is no fun at all) and we can't do that if people don't talk! Giving your opinion on things is a good contribution, too (and does not have to be the same thing as bandwagoning, might I add); you don't have to post only to give us entirely new information!


----------



## Squirrel (Aug 23, 2011)

*Re: Reverse Mafia [N2]*

If we can't abstain, I'd imagine that we need two votes.
*Flower Doll and Bobino* for inactivity. =\


----------



## RK-9 (Aug 23, 2011)

*Re: Reverse Mafia [N2]*

*Flower Doll and Bobino*
Townie with nothin to say, btw


----------



## Hiikaru (Aug 23, 2011)

*Re: Reverse Mafia [N2]*

*Metallica Fanboy:* How do the votes work today, exactly? Does everyone _have_ to vote twice? Is every vote counted toward two people so that the people with the first most and second most votes will be lynched? What if there's a tie? Also can things be orchestrated so that only one person dies?

Also if everyone _has_ to vote twice, what are you going to do about the people who vote once if they won't come back, or about the people who don't vote at all either because they're not here or aren't playing?



Squirrel said:


> Preferrably without unneccesary roleclaims that'll make it easier for the innocents to decide who they target next.


Roleclaims don't really help all that much - people saying "hey, I'm scum :D" doesn't mean they _are_ - this is mafia, lying is a thing. Lying is pretty much the whole point. If no one was allowed to lie (like people seem to think is the case!), this wouldn't even be a game, because everyone would say exactly who they were and then the town would lynch all of the mafia and win every time and then no one would play that because that would be super-boring.

Also if someone actually had information beyond that, roleclaiming is generally kind of necessary! You can't just say like "guys, $person is on our side!" Or, well, you _could_, but it would be confusing for people because they'd wonder if you were inspector or lying or if you were on a team together or if you had some convoluted way of deducing that that doesn't _really_ mean $person is absolutely definitely on our side. It could be that last one and in that case your information isn't the most reliable, so it's better if the person explains how they figured that out, and they can't really without claiming! They can still _lie_, then, but then everyone gets to decide if they seem to be lying or not (which is part of the game!!).



Wargle said:


> Oh dear. Maybe we should have learned who was not scum before getting two votes...


... how would we have learned that? Also we didn't get the two votes on purpose, the innocents just decided it was a good idea to kill DarkAura (I guess they thought it would be good if we killed a couple of scum on accident as long as they don't have anyone better to target?).




Eifie said:


> You don't _need_ a role to have something to talk about. :( The point of the game is to figure things out based on discussion, not just night actions (sitting around abstaining and voting off inactive people until some role gives us information is no fun at all) and we can't do that if people don't talk! Giving your opinion on things is a good contribution, too (and does not have to be the same thing as bandwagoning, might I add); you don't have to post only to give us entirely new information!


Also talking helps people to decide if they think others seem scummy or if they seem suspicious! Which I guess is part of why people don't talk, but that's basically cheating - _mafia is a game about talking_. If you don't talk, people just lynch random other people and target random other people with their night actions, and then you may as well be putting names into a random list generator and seeing what happens, except this way is slower.

If you win without talking, that's not really a win, and then it's just frustrating for everyone! If someone talks a lot and does a good job of playing, then their win seems worthwhile and neat even if you were on the other side, and then you're happy for them! And it's really exciting when you win because you've been active and talkative! (especially if you spin a bunch of ridiculous lies or something)



			
				everyone said:
			
		

> Flower Doll/Bobino/Glace


I guess I'm fine with lynching *Flower Doll*, too - she never talks (read: never plays!), so at the very least she's not a scum who's useful if we _have_ to kill someone.

I don't know for Bobino, though. Ey apparently hasn't logged in the whole time, so ey isn't killing anyone. Which means we'd definitely be lynching someone who isn't hurting us, instead of only probably lynching someone who isn't hurting us! (and maybe lynching someone who is, instead)

If we have to kill someone then yes, getting rid of someone definitely useless is better than getting rid of someone useful, but it also means we have no chance of hitting a role that's hurting us. I guess Bobino could technically be innocent and then that would be a little helpful, but it would still be more helpful if we could lynch someone who's actually a problem.

I think I'm planning to be around for the rest of the day, so I guess I'll also leave my vote at just Flower Doll for now until Metallica Fanboy answers, and if nothing comes up by the time it's getting close to the day phase maybe I'll vote again.


----------



## Squirrel (Aug 23, 2011)

*Re: Reverse Mafia [N2]*



> I don't know for Bobino, though. Ey apparently hasn't logged in the whole time, so ey isn't killing anyone. Which means we'd definitely be lynching someone who isn't hurting us, instead of only probably lynching someone who isn't hurting us!


Good point. Although it doesn't get rid of the possibility that he could be a powerless innocent lackey or a role of that sort, him not being around is a good reason not to kill him.
I think that since Glace and Superbird have posted, those were the only two inactives left. Should someone take his place, or should we not take the risk and at least avoid killing someone who contributes?


----------



## M&F (Aug 23, 2011)

*Re: Reverse Mafia [N2]*



			
				Hiikaru ♥;523669 said:
			
		

> *Metallica Fanboy:* How do the votes work today, exactly? Does everyone _have_ to vote twice? Is every vote counted toward two people so that the people with the first most and second most votes will be lynched? What if there's a tie? Also can things be orchestrated so that only one person dies?
> 
> Also if everyone _has_ to vote twice, what are you going to do about the people who vote once if they won't come back, or about the people who don't vote at all either because they're not here or aren't playing?


Abstaining from voting isn't forbidden; voting for abstinence, on the other hand, is.

Nope, the deciding votes still work on sheer majority -- the two with the highest number of votes on them die.

If there's a tie, a 24-hour extension will be given and, if the tie is not resolved by then, the lynched player will be chosen randomly from the tied.


----------



## Eifie (Aug 23, 2011)

*Re: Reverse Mafia [N2]*



			
				Hiikaru ♥;523669 said:
			
		

> I don't know for Bobino, though. Ey apparently hasn't logged in the whole time, so ey isn't killing anyone. Which means we'd definitely be lynching someone who isn't hurting us, instead of only probably lynching someone who isn't hurting us! (and maybe lynching someone who is, instead)
> 
> If we have to kill someone then yes, getting rid of someone definitely useless is better than getting rid of someone useful, but it also means we have no chance of hitting a role that's hurting us. I guess Bobino could technically be innocent and then that would be a little helpful, but it would still be more helpful if we could lynch someone who's actually a problem.


Hm! I was thinking about targets for lynches only with the objective of minimising our losses. It probably would be smarter not to waste our time lynching Bobino (although hitting a role that's actually hurting us with a random lynch wouldn't be a very fun way of finding innocents, anyway :c), and I guess it's also possible that ey's got a temporary internet problem or something and might come back and actually contribute sometime, although that would kind of invalidate eir inability to actually do anything as a reason not to lynch em.

Um, I don't know if it would be better to go for someone who generally doesn't contribute to discussion or for someone who _might_ but hasn't even been online and might not be online for a while (on the other hand, maybe ey could be). This would be an easier decision if I knew anything about how Bobino plays mafia, I guess. (does anyone?)

EDIT: Vote count, if anybody needs it: Glace: 2; Bobino: 4; Flower Doll: 4.


----------



## RK-9 (Aug 24, 2011)

*Re: Reverse Mafia [N2]*

*Change Bobino to Glace I guess*


----------



## Light (Aug 24, 2011)

*Re: Reverse Mafia [N2]*



Glace said:


> I'm vanilla -- I haven't had anything to offer, if that explains my inactivity. Any posts of mine would have been useless because I have nothing to contribute to the conversation.


It seems to me like you usually say at least _something_. Just a little bit suspicious in my opinion. :/



			
				Hiikaru ♥;523669 said:
			
		

> We wouldn't be offing someone that hurts us with Bobino.


Since he's not helping us either, lynching him would be neutral. If we decide to lynch someone else, there is a chance they will be mafia, there is a chance they will be useful, and in any case they will be someone who contributes. If Bobino turns out to be mafia, the mafia can win one turn sooner if we don't end up killing him, and the town can have killed all the other mafia and still not have won. We will never have any more reason to kill him than we do now (well, unless no one dies a couple of nights days in a row) and we have an extra lynch we have to use up. And if he's scum, don't expect the mafia to take care of him. It seems like Hiikaru is proposing a random lynch, and that doesn't sound like a good idea to me.


----------



## Superbird (Aug 24, 2011)

*Re: Reverse Mafia [N2]*

Well, we're all scum, right? I hate do admit it, but there's a good chance that whoever we lynch will turn up as scum. That said, I'll bandwagon on *Bobino and Flower Doll*.


----------



## Chief Zackrai (Aug 24, 2011)

*Re: Reverse Mafia [N2]*

why not. *Bobino and Flower Doll.*


----------



## Hiikaru (Aug 24, 2011)

*Re: Reverse Mafia [N2]*



Light Yagami said:


> It seems to me like you usually say at least _something_. Just a little bit suspicious in my opinion. :/


Sometimes people suddenly have nothing to say! I haven't seen Glace playing, though, so it might be suspicious.

Also vanilla people can definitely have a lot to say, as Eifie said, so that's not really a reason!



Eifie said:


> Um, I don't know if it would be better to go for someone who generally doesn't contribute to discussion or for someone who _might_ but hasn't even been online and might not be online for a while (on the other hand, maybe ey could be). This would be an easier decision if I knew anything about how Bobino plays mafia, I guess. (does anyone?)


I'd prefer someone who generally doesn't contribute, I guess! I kind of doubt Bobino will show up (because that would be convenient), but regardless that's a mystery! And there are enough other reasons to lynch not-Bobino, anyway.



Squirrel said:


> Good point. Although it doesn't get rid of the possibility that he could be a powerless innocent lackey or a role of that sort, him not being around is a good reason not to kill him.
> I think that since Glace and Superbird have posted, those were the only two inactives left. Should someone take his place, or should we not take the risk and at least avoid killing someone who contributes?


I'd rather let someone take Bobino's place;  I guess that's a bit riskier, but then maybe we'll actually be doing something useful, so that would be good. We can't stall lynching someone potentially useful forever, so maybe it's best to try it out now when we have enough people to afford it.



Light Yagami said:


> Since he's not helping us either, lynching him would be neutral. If we decide to lynch someone else, there is a chance they will be mafia, there is a chance they will be useful, and in any case they will be someone who contributes. If Bobino turns out to be mafia, the mafia can win one turn sooner if we don't end up killing him, and the town can have killed all the other mafia and still not have won. We will never have any more reason to kill him than we do now (well, unless no one dies a couple of nights days in a row) and we have an extra lynch we have to use up. And if he's scum, don't expect the mafia to take care of him. It seems like Hiikaru is proposing a random lynch, and that doesn't sound like a good idea to me.


Of course I'm proposing a random lynch! What else _can_ we do, we don't actually have information! Lynching Bobino is also essentially "random" - we don't know for sure ey's good to lynch, just that ey isn't contributing.

Lynching any other inactive person is just as random, only with the chance that they might be a problem role. If Bobino's innocent, then _even if ey becomes don_, ey can't do anything, because ey doesn't even log in to submit day-actions. Ey can't hurt us! Ey's not a problem role.

So you're right that there are definitely some pros to lynching Bobino (and cons for anyone else), but I'm kind of more concerned with the fact that lynching em won't get rid of a problem person, but lynching someone else _might_. I understand that a neutral lynch is good, sure! But I don't really want to, it isn't particularly useful!

Which is why I guess I'm going to also vote for *Glace*?


----------



## Eifie (Aug 24, 2011)

*Re: Reverse Mafia [N2]*

Reading my post again, it seems kind of obvious that it'd probably be better to lynch someone who generally doesn't contribute! I'll use my second vote on *Glace* then, which I think means Glace and Bobino are tied? So I guess that'll give us another twenty-four hours if nobody else votes.


----------



## Zapi (Aug 24, 2011)

*Re: Reverse Mafia [N2]*

I'm really sorry I haven't had anything helpful to say. I'm not a very experienced mafia player, tbh.

Bandwagoning *Glace and Bobino*


----------



## M&F (Aug 24, 2011)

*Re: Reverse Mafia [N2]*

*Discussion is extended for 24 hours.*

(incidentally, Flower Doll, Bobino and Glace are currently all tied at six votes)


----------



## Flora (Aug 24, 2011)

*Re: Reverse Mafia [N2]*

Hi, guys, haven't posted because I don't have any info ^^;

I'm gonna bandwagon *Glace and Bobino* for obvious reasons.


----------



## Glace (Aug 24, 2011)

*Re: Reverse Mafia [N2]*

*Glace and Bobino*.

It's just that when I'm vanilla, I don't have any info and therefore don't have anything to post. I just really jump on bandwagons and stuff. (I'm not really experienced in Mafia, so!)


----------



## Squirrel (Aug 24, 2011)

*Re: Reverse Mafia [N2]*

Well, posting more is how you get experience. I was a terrible player when I started. =\

Changing Flower Doll to *Glace*, *Bobino* remains.


----------



## RK-9 (Aug 24, 2011)

*Re: Reverse Mafia [N2]*

FIEN

GLACE AND BOBINO


----------



## Wargle (Aug 24, 2011)

*Re: Reverse Mafia [N2]*

*Glace and Bobino* it is...


----------



## Hiikaru (Aug 24, 2011)

*Re: Reverse Mafia [N2]*



Flower Doll said:


> Hi, guys, haven't posted because I don't have any info ^^;





Glace said:


> *Glace and Bobino*.
> 
> It's just that when I'm vanilla, I don't have any info and therefore don't have anything to post.


I'm also vanilla, but I've written ~2000 words in this thread.

_Having no information does not mean you can't play._ (where, again, "play" means "talk" because _this is a game about talking_.)

I also talked quite a bit in my first game of mafia ever ever (despite not having an info role!!!), so being "inexperienced" (haven't you played a whole bunch of games?) also _does not mean you can't play_.

Mafia is not a game about "guys I'm inspector $person is a bad guy let's go" it is a game about _talking_, and you can do that _regardless of your role_.


----------



## M&F (Aug 26, 2011)

*Re: Reverse Mafia [N2]*

The next day, two different shopowners would be treated to the marvelous sight of a different guy who died while trying to rob their places.

*Glace is dead. He was scum.*

*Bobino is dead. He was innocent.*


----------



## M&F (Aug 28, 2011)

*Re: Reverse Mafia [D2]*

The innocents' best response to the recent bout of violence was more violence.

Strangely, Light Yagami's corpse had a wide grin plastered on, as though he had accomplished his purpose. Perhaps previously, perhaps in death. Who will ever know? The only person who did was him.

*Light Yagami is dead. He was scum.*

*48 hours for discussion.*


----------



## Zero Moment (Aug 29, 2011)

*Re: Reverse Mafia [N2]*

I suppose I have some information?

For the sake of not accidentally fucking things up by potentially outing Lovers or Masons or something, I'll censor the names.

So apparently [My stalking target] met with [living player] last night. I don't know what they did, as I was apparently forced to bail out before I could figure out what they were doing.


----------



## RK-9 (Aug 29, 2011)

*Re: Reverse Mafia [N3]*

_heh heh heh_


----------



## Zero Moment (Aug 29, 2011)

*Re: Reverse Mafia [N3]*

Hee hee hee?


----------



## RK-9 (Aug 29, 2011)

*Re: Reverse Mafia [N3]*

Tee hee hee


----------



## Zero Moment (Aug 29, 2011)

*Re: Reverse Mafia [N2]*

Hoo hoo hoo?

(MF says that the "bailing out" bit is because Trackers don't see what action is performed)
(Also, I didn't target RK-10)


----------



## RK-9 (Aug 29, 2011)

*Re: Reverse Mafia [N3]*

Fap fap fap?


----------



## Zero Moment (Aug 29, 2011)

*Re: Reverse Mafia [N3]*

Glub glub glub


----------



## RK-9 (Aug 29, 2011)

*Re: Reverse Mafia [N3]*

Derp derp derp


----------



## Zero Moment (Aug 29, 2011)

*Re: Reverse Mafia [N3]*

honk

HONK

honk

HONK MOTHERFUCKER


----------



## RK-9 (Aug 29, 2011)

*Re: Reverse Mafia [N3]*

SHOWDOWN SHOWDOWN SHOWDOWN

(x3 combo!)


----------



## Zero Moment (Aug 29, 2011)

*Re: Reverse Mafia [N3]*

shoooooooosh
pap

(5x SHOWDOWN COMBO)


----------



## RK-9 (Aug 29, 2011)

*Re: Reverse Mafia [N3]*

Okay screw this this is pointless.

Anyone got any info?


----------



## Zero Moment (Aug 29, 2011)

*Re: Reverse Mafia [N3]*

Agree, I do.


----------



## Squirrel (Aug 29, 2011)

*Re: Reverse Mafia [N2]*



Legendaryseeker99 said:


> I suppose I have some information?
> 
> For the sake of not accidentally fucking things up by potentially outing Lovers or Masons or something, I'll censor the names.
> 
> So apparently [My stalking target] met with [living player] last night. I don't know what they did, as I was apparently forced to bail out before I could figure out what they were doing.


Without names, that's not really helpful or reliable information. Anyone could just say, "I inspected [someone] and s/he was [alignment.]" and claim anything with that method. It doesn't bring us any closer to figuring out who's innocent.
Was it related to Light Yagami in any way? If he were recruited by a mason and could give out information to his new group, depending on what his role was. 
What reason would he have to die smiling?


----------



## Eifie (Aug 30, 2011)

*Re: Reverse Mafia [N2]*



Legendaryseeker99 said:


> I suppose I have some information?
> 
> For the sake of not accidentally fucking things up by potentially outing Lovers or Masons or something, I'll censor the names.
> 
> So apparently [My stalking target] met with [living player] last night. I don't know what they did, as I was apparently forced to bail out before I could figure out what they were doing.


That wouldn't be outing lovers or masons at all! Neither of those roles have night actions. Well, a lover's target might, or a recruiting mason, but we'd have no way of knowing that ey's a lover or recruiting mason over any other role from that information. (Also, lovers are not necessarily mafia-aligned!)

Unless the person you were stalking claims/has claimed vanilla townie (or some other role without a night action), or comes up for lynching, I guess you should keep the names (at least your stalking target's name) to yourself, though. Since ey didn't target Light Yagami last night, you can probably assume that ey's not the... innocent don for now (since Light Yagami was most likely an innocent kill), although that doesn't make em definitely mafia-aligned. Hm, it might be a good idea for you to try targeting people who've claimed vanilla; that'd be the easiest claim for the innocents.



Squirrel said:


> What reason would he have to die smiling?


Huh, I thought the flavour text was completely irrelevant, but looking back, all the GM said was that it doesn't mean a lot. No idea what that could mean, though, if that part's supposed to mean anything. I wonder what reason the innocents would have to kill Light Yagami, though.


----------



## Zero Moment (Aug 30, 2011)

*Re: Reverse Mafia [N3]*

Yeah I'm mostly worried that it was a Doctor or something.


----------



## Chief Zackrai (Aug 30, 2011)

*Re: Reverse Mafia [N3]*

What's this? a mafia game where I'm still alive? Weird.

Anyhow, I think that maybe the fact he's smiling has something to do with his role, and maybe he only had to accomplish this one task? Like maybe there was a serial killer and he was the psychiatrist, or some nonsensory like that. Or maybe the other way around, he was the serial killer and the psychiatrist healed him, so he's happy? I don't know, just offering possibilities.


----------



## Hiikaru (Aug 30, 2011)

*Re: Reverse Mafia [N3]*



Legendaryseeker99 said:


> Yeah I'm mostly worried that it was a Doctor or something.


I'm not terribly familiar with tracker, but aren't there enough roles with day-actions that outing a specific one is kind of a non-issue?

I'm going to agree that you should probably keep the names a secret regardless, though, for now - it will probably be more useful once people start claiming. "You're vanilla(or no actions role)? Then why did I see you targeting $person one night?"



Eifie said:


> Hm, it might be a good idea for you to try targeting people who've claimed vanilla; that'd be the easiest claim for the innocents.


I don't think anyone's claimed vanilla except Glace (who's dead), and myself - and apparently Legendary's already targeted me and determined that I'm probably not the innocent don.

If someone else wants to claim to prove their... scumminess, I guess that could be a thing, but probably only actually-vanilla people would _want_ to do that, so that wouldn't be particularly helpful.

It could be useful if we had multiple people claim and Legendary decided on his own which of them to target, but mass role-claiming is kind of silly at this point. 



> Huh, I thought the flavour text was completely irrelevant, but looking back, all the GM said was that it doesn't mean a lot. No idea what that could mean, though, if that part's supposed to mean anything. I wonder what reason the innocents would have to kill Light Yagami, though.


I don't know, either - especially when they could kill an claimed inforole like Legendary, or one of the people who's trying to be helpful and talk (Eifie, Squirrel, Zackrai). Maybe they're not actually reading the thread? Or maybe the don is inactive and eir actions are being randomized. I guess I wouldn't be surprised by that.



Chief Zackrai said:


> What's this? a mafia game where I'm still alive? Weird.
> 
> Anyhow, I think that maybe the fact he's smiling has something to do with his role, and maybe he only had to accomplish this one task? Like maybe there was a serial killer and he was the psychiatrist, or some nonsensory like that. Or maybe the other way around, he was the serial killer and the psychiatrist healed him, so he's happy? I don't know, just offering possibilities.


Hm, can anyone think of any other roles that are supposed to accomplish something before they die? If that piece of flavour text _is_ meaningful, it might be helpful to try and guess at how.

Alternatively, could Light Yagami have been killed due to something like drug overdose? Or he could have just been killed in his sleep while having a good dream, I guess.


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## RK-9 (Aug 30, 2011)

*Re: Reverse Mafia [N3]*

I've claimed vanilla.


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## Eifie (Aug 30, 2011)

*Re: Reverse Mafia [N3]*



			
				Hiikaru ♥;525055 said:
			
		

> I'm not terribly familiar with tracker, but aren't there enough roles with day-actions that outing a specific one is kind of a non-issue?


Well, it would let the innocents know who's actually _got_ a day action; we'd probably want to keep that from them, especially considering that there seems to be a disproportionate amount of sheep in this game. Anyone revealed to have any day action at all would probably rise to the top of the innocents' target list. (unless that person is innocent emself, that is.)


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## Zapi (Aug 30, 2011)

*Re: Reverse Mafia [N2]*



Eifie said:


> Huh, I thought the flavour text was completely irrelevant, but looking back, all the GM said was that it doesn't mean a lot.


When exactly did he say this? I believe you, I just don't remember him ever saying that. I have pretty terrible memory though xD



			
				Hiikaru ♥;525055 said:
			
		

> I don't know, either - especially when they could kill an acclaimed inforole like Legendary, or one of the people who's trying to be helpful and talk (Eifie, Squirrel, Zackrai). Maybe they're not actually reading the thread? Or maybe the don is inactive and eir actions are being randomized. I guess I wouldn't be surprised by that.


I'm pretty sure everyone who's still alive has posted at least once, so the innocents not actually reading the thread doesn't seem likely. As for your second explanation, it definitely makes more sense, though I haven't noticed anyone who's been particularly inactive recently (other than Flower Doll, but she's usually pretty inactive in mafia games)...

Maybe the innocents just aren't very good at being the informed minority? Even that doesn't seem very likely though, judging by who's still alive at this point, but it's a possibility.


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## Zero Moment (Aug 31, 2011)

*Re: Reverse Mafia [N3]*

Yeah since I don't see anything wrong with revealing who was targetted, Superbird was visited by [redacted].


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## Chief Zackrai (Aug 31, 2011)

*Re: Reverse Mafia [N3]*



			
				Hiikaru ♥;525055 said:
			
		

> Hm, can anyone think of any other roles that are supposed to accomplish something before they die? If that piece of flavour text _is_ meaningful, it might be helpful to try and guess at how.
> 
> Alternatively, could Light Yagami have been killed due to something like drug overdose? Or he could have just been killed in his sleep while having a good dream, I guess.


Maybe a single use arsonist and a firefighter? successfully blocked the ill incendiaries from igniting? This seems less likely to me, though, because first I've never heard of a single use arsonist, and second firefighters are kind of roleblockers that only work on arsonists, and if I recall correctly they have a day action, not a night action.

However, the odds that a psychiatrist already found the serial killer is basically just as likely as what I've said about the arsonist/firefighter, but. 

I'm not sure of how many other check/balance roles there are, though.

But! maybe he was a jester? Just thinking in the character of jesters here, but aren't they supposed to be all smiley and giggly? I don't know.


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## M&F (Aug 31, 2011)

*Re: Reverse Mafia [N3]*

*Discussion is extended for 24 hours.*

Failure to cast a vote of any sort will result in random lynching.


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## RK-9 (Aug 31, 2011)

*Re: Reverse Mafia [N3]*

*ABSTAIn me gusta*


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## Zapi (Aug 31, 2011)

*Re: Reverse Mafia [N3]*

*Abstaining *for now since this discussion isn't going much of anywhere.


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## Superbird (Sep 1, 2011)

*Re: Reverse Mafia [N3]*

I'll *Abstain*. There seem to be a lot of leads, but none seem really conclusive enough to do anything with. It'd be nice if we can figure something more out tomorrow night.


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## Squirrel (Sep 1, 2011)

*Re: Reverse Mafia [N3]*

*Abstaining* until we get a better lead.


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## M&F (Sep 1, 2011)

*Re: Reverse Mafia [N3]*

Having no success with fishing out the innocents, the criminals decide to just go about their usual shady business for the night.

*No one was lynched.*

*48 hours for day actions.*


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