# indie/alternative rock



## Tarvos (Dec 23, 2009)

discuss how indie is now better than metal

bands i like are

radiohead, snow patrol, death cab for cutie, bon iver, sigur ros, built to spill, pixies, sonic youth, godspeed you! black emperor, a silver mt. zion, god is an astronaut, brand new, some modest mouse, the dismemberment plan, the cure, joy division, hum and more


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## departuresong (Dec 24, 2009)

As far as "indie" goes, I like Seabear and Klee.

If we're going to broaden it to all flavors of alternative rock, I enjoy Silbermond, Wir sind Helden, Garbage, Rosenstolz, Tori Amos, and No Doubt.


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## Zuu (Dec 24, 2009)

I can dig God is an Astronaut but I didn't know they were indie


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## departuresong (Dec 24, 2009)

"Indie" is a stupid term. I've heard so many definitions for it... it's ridiculous.


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## Zuu (Dec 24, 2009)

I just thought indie meant "we have no label"


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## foreign contaminant (Dec 24, 2009)

indie bands i like include deerhunter, black dice, liars, animal collective, grizzly bear, atlas sound, neutral milk hotel, stereolab, no age, panda bear, pavement, liz phair, phoenix,  and more.

alternative bands i like - and we're stretching this definition as far as we possible can, to count punk, post-punk, new wave, shoegaze, noise, etc. - include my bloody valentine, sonic youth, talk talk, the jesus and mary chain, pixies, the breeders, dinosaur jr., XTC, squeeze, elvis costello, television, patti smith, gang of four, joy division, echo & the bunnymen, joe jackson, blondie, talking heads, ramones, the clash, the sex pistols, suicide, the pop group, teenage jesus and the jerks, DNA, beck, slowdive, ride, boredoms, r.e.m., nirvana, and probably more.

music that's neither indie nor alternative, but still widely acclaimed (or not so widely acclaimed) in these circles, that i like includes the velvet underground, the stooges, iggy pop, new york dolls, david bowie, can, NEU!, and more.

i love a lot of different kinds of rock music. i'm always willing to try anything, but i tend to connect most with post-velvet underground bands.


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## Tarvos (Dec 24, 2009)

no it means we're not on a major label, we have an independent label


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## Zuu (Dec 24, 2009)

oh okay :B

hey fc, what're good shoegaze bands? i've always wanted to try shoegaze.


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## departuresong (Dec 24, 2009)

Shoegaze is fucking awesome. Cocteau Twins, Autumn's Grey Solace, Slowdive, and My Bloody Valentine are great places to start. Once you fall in love with shoegaze you don't go back.

Edit: Didn't see you were asking fc specifically. Sorry.


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## Ether's Bane (Dec 24, 2009)

I hate indie. :(

However, I like many who do alternative, including My Chemical Romance, Red Hot Chili Peppers, Sonic Youth, Radiohead, Matchbook Romance, Muse, Garbage, Orianthi, Paramore, God is an Astronaut, REM, and Sigur Ros.


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## foreign contaminant (Dec 24, 2009)

slowdive is a good if you want something.. um.. slower in pace. shoegaze is a very ambient kind of music, and they're the shoegaze band i've listened to that leans towards ambient music the most. to put it in perspective, brian eno collaborated with them. at the same time, shoegaze is a characteristically noisy music, and they're pretty tame in that regard. that's not to say they're bad, because they're not. if you enjoy music that's energetic or loud, they just might not be your thing.

ride is the rockiest of the shoegaze bands i've heard. everything they do is turned up way loud, but it's more apparent in their music that there's a method to the madness. i can't say too much about them because i've only heard, like, a song, but it only took one song for me to recognize major differences. i heard one song off of nowhere, their first album. their stuff is probably the most accessible out of the shoegaze bands i've heard.

my bloody valentine is my favorite and probably the best, but they're an odd one; they are cited as a shoegaze band on one hand and just an alternative band that had a much noisier edge to them at the same time. they're deemed shoegaze retroactively, i mean. loveless is their crown jewel, but it's totally inaccessible. it's a grower, for sure; i really disliked it when i bought it, but now it's one of my absolute favorite albums. if you asked me to explain why i liked it, i could only use subjective terms. try "you made me realise" or "feed me with your kiss" and see how you feel about those. 

if none of these bands interest you, the other names i know are swervedriver and lush. i don't know many shoegaze groups from the 90s.. last.fm's shoegaze page lists deerhunter, m83, asobi seksu, the pains of being pure at heart, and school of seven bells as shoegaze. they're all right, but none of them are shoegaze in the vein of the three bands i mentioned above.

if you think knowing about the antecedents to certain music helps you understand the music (it helps me sometimes, maybe you operate similarly?), definitely check out the jesus and mary chain and cocteau twins. there's also galaxie 500 and spacemen 3. i don't know how many shoegaze bands cite them as an influence, but i know some of them like those groups.


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## Zuu (Dec 24, 2009)

ShiningGlass: nah that's cool, I'll check them out.

fc: I'm into slow, I'm into ambient, I'm into noise. I'm sure I'll like slowdive. And I'll look into those other bands too... 

thanks, both of ye.


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## foreign contaminant (Dec 24, 2009)

don't worry, shiningglass. it's cool that someone else listens to shoegaze. i don't meet many people who are into the same kind of music as me.

to add to the "indie" discussion, i just use indie as a label for bands that exhibit a bit of creative freedom. indie itself isn't a very good definition for a kind of music; at the same time, a lot of bands fall in between two genre classifications without leaning towards one, so it's a good blanket term. maybe it's lazy, but i feel like it's appropriate.


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## Zuu (Dec 24, 2009)

shit i have been listening to god is an astronaut nonstop

i never realised how amazing they are


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## #1 bro (Dec 24, 2009)

pretty much every band i listen to is indie/alternative ("alternative", by the way, being one of the stupidest genre names i have ever heard. what the fuck is _coldplay_ an alternative to?). i mean occasionally i listen to some metal or hip hop but yeah. 

radiohead, animal collective, and of montreal are probably my three favorite bands. (along with sigur rós, but post-rock doesn't fall under the heading of "alternative", does it? well i guess it must if you guys are talking about god is an astronaut. either way.)  then, i also like... pretty much everything. lately i've been listening to neon indian, dirty projectors, clap your hands say yeah, deerhoof, and liars. tv on the radio, the flaming lips, deerhunter, and nine inch nails are also some all-time favorites of mine.

edit: okay so in watershed's post he mentioned sigur rós so let's just say they're alternative. 

also who has heard of columbus ohio's very own "shitgaze" music scene? my friend's been getting me into that stuff. wavves, no age, and times new viking are probably the most famous shitgaze bands. basically it's the coolest thing that's ever come out of this city so it's worth listening to maybe?


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## Tarvos (Dec 24, 2009)

Post-rock is definitely under alternative.

The only shoegaze I tend to listen to is My Bloody Valentine.

Also Mogwai guys.


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## Teh Ebil Snorlax (Jan 1, 2010)

As far as I define indie and alternative; Three Days Grace, Marilyn Manson, Innerpartysystem, Biffy Clyro, Coldplay, Weezer, The Killers, Kings of Leon, Kaiser Chiefs, Pendulum, Rolo Tomassi, Primus, God Is An Astronaut, Fair to Midland, Beirut, The Frames, Seasick Steve and Outcry Collective.


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## departuresong (Jan 1, 2010)

Teh Ebil Snorlax said:


> Three Days Grace, Marilyn Manson


Neither of these qualify for any established definition of "indie" or "alternative."


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## Teh Ebil Snorlax (Jan 1, 2010)

Which I clearly notified anyone reading the post by saying "As far as I define indie and alternative". I'm not gonna get into an argument with you because no one ever wins arguments over the boundaries of genres.


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## Tarvos (Jan 1, 2010)

MM is more industrial iirc and TDG is just alternative rock/nu-metal/crap.


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## departuresong (Jan 1, 2010)

Teh Ebil Snorlax said:


> Which I clearly notified anyone reading the post by saying "As far as I define indie and alternative". I'm not gonna get into an argument with you because no one ever wins arguments over the boundaries of genres.


Yeah, sorry, but your opinion is apparently so outlandish that I wouldn't even bother playing this card. Do you also think Nickelback is alternative rock?


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## Teh Ebil Snorlax (Jan 2, 2010)

No, I think Nickelback is shit.


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## Tarvos (Jan 2, 2010)

How would _you_ define alternative rock, dear AK?


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## departuresong (Jan 2, 2010)

Well, I certainly wouldn't define it as the formulaic crap that most people call "modern rock." Nickelback, Three Days Grace, Daughtry, Creed, Seether, Linkin Park, A7X, and all of that other garbage makes me want to puke.


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## Tarvos (Jan 2, 2010)

So the defining criterion of alternative rock is exactly what you dislike is not alternative rock, and exactly what you like is?


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## departuresong (Jan 3, 2010)

No.


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## Ether's Bane (Jan 3, 2010)

ShiningGlass said:


> Well, I certainly wouldn't define it as the formulaic crap that most people call "modern rock." Nickelback, *Three Days Grace*, Daughtry, Creed, *Seether*, Linkin Park, *A7X*, and all of that other garbage makes me want to puke.


Nope, nope, and nope.

3DG are hard rock.
Seether are post-grunge.
A7X are heavy metal.

(I hate 3DG and Seether, too, but that's beside the point.)


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## #1 bro (Jan 3, 2010)

um, you missed his point? those bands AREN'T alternative. 

"alternative" is too wide of a spectrum to really be useful, but i'd say that the "alternative" sound is best represented by bands like coldplay, the killers, death cab for cutie, interpol, weezer, the strokes, etc, along with stuff like sonic youth or nirvana. "indie" and "alternative" are, in my mind, essentially the same thing, except for alternative is just an band on a major label. although i guess this definition technically makes radiohead's genre indie, which is not really the term that comes to mind, but whatever. 

i think the real difference between alternative and just straight up "rock" is that alternative is kind of more of the feminine side and "rock" is more masculine. bands like the ones AK listed are all sort of have a hard-hitting, confident, dick-size-compensating sound while "alternative" can be more introspective, poppy, "whiny", and at times more artsy. sorry if i'm not really making sense here.


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## Lorem Ipsum (Jan 3, 2010)

I'm not entirely sure if you'd define them as alternative, but I rather like Muse. I have some Radiohead and Coldplay albums as well (namely OK Computer and Viva la Vida). And not to mention Elbow, who I've grown to really like. Especially seeing as how I have obsessively listened to Grounds for Divorce since I finally bought the whole Seldom Seen Kid album last Saturday.


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## Minish (Jan 3, 2010)

This genre confuses me. There's no reason why not being on a major label means you will necessarily have a different sound. Plus I don't care which label a group is on and won't attempt to find out, so I have no idea what actually IS indie/alternative.

As far as I know, though... the following _are_ alternative, and I like them: Poets of the Fall, Death Cab for Cutie and Paramore. But hey, I probably listen to a lot more alternative bands I just don't know count as 'alternative'. I'd tend to call those three pop rock, to be honest. God, I hate genres.


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## Tarvos (Jan 3, 2010)

ShiningGlass said:


> No.


Then what IS your criterion? If you don't have any at least admit you don't.


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## foreign contaminant (Jan 3, 2010)

in line with zeta's masculine/feminine analogy, i associated alternative rock with a rough, hard-edged sound, whereas indie bands might be inclined to make things seem prettier, or perhaps cleaner or tidier. there is a clear divide between nirvana and, say, pavement.

both are blanket terms, and there isn't a sound that's uniform underneath it. that said, alternative bands generally have more in common with each other than indie bands; sonic youth and nirvana have similar sounds, whereas stereolab and yeah yeah yeahs, while both indie bands, almost never sound like they take the same sonic cues.


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## Tarvos (Jan 3, 2010)

Also a7x aren't heavy metal they are metalcore

and faggot metalcore at that


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## departuresong (Jan 4, 2010)

Cirrus said:


> This genre confuses me. There's no reason why not being on a major label means you will necessarily have a different sound. Plus I don't care which label a group is on and won't attempt to find out, so I have no idea what actually IS indie/alternative.


Label =/= genre; nobody ever stated otherwise.


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