# Snom Mafia



## IndigoClaudia

In the lovely town of Chichester lives a smol group of snoms that live under a bridge. (It's a big bridge) There were about 13 snoms, but one day, a conspiracy arose that there are ZORUA impersonating some of the snoms! Why do they want to impersonate the snoms? Who knows. The conspiracy theorist had an idea. But before he could explain, he died mysteriously. The snom councel decided. 

*We must remove the Snomafia.*

Game starts tommorow at 8:00 Am - Central Time (America)


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## Zori

If anyone asks, I had nothing to do with this!


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## kyeugh

i would like to inform you all in advance that i will not be making any reads this game and will simply be rping as a snom.


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## Zori

kyeugh said:


> i would like to inform you all in advance that i will not be making any reads this game and will simply be rping as a snom.


Keep all discussion to the signup thread before the game begins, please!


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## Zori

Chichester Snoms are slightly judgemental, and as a result, there is a popularity scale in effect:

*Popularity Scale:*
3 - Motivated (preforms 2 actions per night)
2 - Doublevoter
1 - Loved (Is treated as having 1 less vote on them than normal)
0 - Default
-1 - Automatically loses voting ties
-2 - Lose Night Actions
-3 - Hated  (Is treated as having 1 more vote on them than normal)

All Snoms start at 0. Snoms' popularity go up by 1 if they vote out a Mafia, and it goes down by 1 if they vote out a Town.
You will not be informed when or how your popularity changes.
There are roles in the game that interact with this mechanic.

All Voting modifiers (Hated, Loved, Doublevoter, etc.) do not apply in MyLo or LyLo (measured by Mafia parity, not by loss of Town parity). As a result, MyLo and LyLo will be announced at day start.

Because everyone is nice here (for the time being), no killing actions may be used during Night 0.


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## IndigoClaudia

*Night zero has started*

Don't kill your friends. But take action if we want to Kill the town/Stop the Zorua's.


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## Zori

Night Zero will end in 30 hours, at 17:00 UTC (2:00 PM CST).
There will be no killing actions during Night Zero.


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## Zori

Additionally, any discussion of when your role PM was sent, or who sent it, is forbidden.


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## Zori

All rolecards should be out.
If you don't have a rolecard, message me and Emmy and we'll get that sorted out.


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## Zori

Spoiler: Pings



@JuliaTheSeaTurtleQueen
@Mist1422
@Mr. Ultracool
@Bluwiikoon
@sanderidge
@Superjolt
@kyeugh
@kokorico
@M Plus 7
@Ysabel
@Keldeo
@mewtini
@Trebek





Spoiler: Game Summary



*N0*


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## Zori

Night Results going out now, because I have a doctor appointment literally at day start


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## IndigoClaudia

Spoiler: Piiiings



@JuliaTheSeaTurtleQueen
@Mist1422
@Mr. Ultracool
@Bluwiikoon
@sanderidge
@Superjolt
@kyeugh
@kokorico
@M Plus 7
@Ysabel
@Keldeo
@mewtini
@Trebek



It's a lovely morning and all the snoms are heading off to town square to debate who to stabby! Someone could be a zorua! Or worse! No one has died yet... But that might not last forever. Lots of the snoms in this city have special skills to use that could come in handy for stopping the zoruas... or stopping the town :0

Alright, last people here! You get to town square with a song playing.



> Nobody likes kyeugh! Just saying! lalalalalala!


Oh! It's the hit song _Nobody likes Skylar/Kyeugh/Qva_! It's been hitting the lists of best songs lately! Nobody knows who made it, but the artist has been trending. You also notice a little rock in the road, but it's just kinda there. It didn't look like anything but unnecessary flavor text. Some snoms look grumpy this morning as they get to town square, and the village elder (who cannot be killed it's seshas) stands in the center. Holding a knife for stabbies.

And here we are, town square! Let the games strategic stabbies commence!


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## mewtini

good news guys


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## mewtini

IndigoEmmy said:


> the village elder (who cannot be killed it's seshas)


oh bet?
*seshas*


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## IndigoClaudia

Nobody can lynch seshas.


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## IndigoClaudia

He is protected by the snom god. (me) 

XD i need to come up with a better excuse flavor-wise.


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## sanderidge

gdi mewt i was going to say good news guys

but hey good news guys -


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## mewtini

my vote is final


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## Novae

*the zoruas*

i checked them last night they're mafia


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## IndigoClaudia

Mist wins captain obvious award for 2020


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## qenya

Seshas said:


> 17:00 UTC (2:00 PM CST).


Fun fact: I only realised about 10 minutes ago that 14:00 CST is in fact 19:00 UTC. For the last two hours I'd been assuming that we were just waiting for someone with a mandatory night action or something.


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## Keldeo

Snooloo rolls.

--

Hi everyone! Excited to be here. 

Like I said in the signup thread, probably will be making infrequent posts and taking it easy.

I won't be doing hypocop, because without role reveals, we get the drawbacks (it can tell the mafia who isn't the cop) without much of the benefits. I don't actually know whether roles are revealed upon death, but I'm assuming they are not.

Do we know if this game is all vanilla / only a few power roles / mostly power roles? If it was mentioned somewhere, I forgot. I guess we know it's not the first because of the popularity role mechanic.

Poor kyeugh btw. I like kyeugh! You rock!


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## Novae

IndigoEmmy said:


> Mist wins captain obvious award for 2020


i think you should stop posting in the game thread so you don't accidentally hint at information >:c


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## IndigoClaudia

It's trendy to diss kyeugh


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## IndigoClaudia

Mist1422 said:


> IndigoEmmy said:
> 
> 
> 
> Mist wins captain obvious award for 2020
> 
> 
> 
> i think you should stop posting in the game thread so you don't accidentally hint at information >:c
Click to expand...

mist has a point! Goodbye peeps!


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## Novae

hmm

now I wonder if someone's role made sande+SJ crossed out in the pinglist, or if that means anything


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## IndigoClaudia

Keldeo said:


> Do we know if this game is all vanilla / only a few power roles / mostly power roles? If it was mentioned somewhere, I forgot. I guess we know it's not the first because of the popularity role mechanic.


Uhh i'm not disclosing that information.


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## mewtini

Keldeo said:


> I won't be doing hypocop, because without role reveals, we get the drawbacks (it can tell the mafia who isn't the cop) without much of the benefits.


oh is it actually town-detrimental? i was under the impression that it was helpful for the most part but i never really considered it wrt role reveals


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## qenya

Anyway hi guys!



Keldeo said:


> I won't be doing hypocop, because without role reveals, we get the drawbacks (it can tell the mafia who isn't the cop) without much of the benefits. I don't actually know whether roles are revealed upon death, but I'm assuming they are not.


I think this is sensible. I was kinda bemused when everyone started hypocopping all over the place in Cats (2019) Mafia - it made it a lot easier than it needed to be for us to work out who the cop was.



Keldeo said:


> Do we know if this game is all vanilla / only a few power roles / mostly power roles? If it was mentioned somewhere, I forgot. I guess we know it's not the first because of the popularity role mechanic.


I think this quote suggests there is a reasonably high PR density:


IndigoEmmy said:


> Lots of the snoms in this city have special skills to use that could come in handy for stopping the zoruas... or stopping the town :0


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## Novae

oh are there full role reveals this game?


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## mewtini

Mist1422 said:


> oh are there full role reveals this game?


i don't think we know. i was just mentioning it in reply to kel


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## Novae

oh

if there aren't we definitely do not hypocop because like, there's no point if we can't actually figure the cop out when they die


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## IndigoClaudia

Does anyone here have access to an AI that can read the future i feel like that would help the game go a little bit faster.


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## IndigoClaudia

just wanted to say that last thing wasn't actually relevant i was jk


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## Keldeo

Everyone seems friendly so far... but what if someone is actually a Zorua?! Snooloo snööhs wistfully. 

--



mewtini said:


> Keldeo said:
> 
> 
> 
> I won't be doing hypocop, because without role reveals, we get the drawbacks (it can tell the mafia who isn't the cop) without much of the benefits.
> 
> 
> 
> oh is it actually town-detrimental? i was under the impression that it was helpful for the most part but i never really considered it wrt role reveals
Click to expand...

It's detrimental without role reveals, yeah. I would have brought it up in Cats, but I was mafia and it was helping us rule out people as the cop, hehe.

Benefits of cop cover can be: 
- if the cop is nightkilled before they claim, you know what their checks were (this is not applicable without role reveals)
- if someone else is nightkilled, you can assume their hypo-checks are town, because mafia probably wouldn't attempt to kill someone they know is not the cop (this is more true in games with fewer power roles, and probably is not helpful here)

Drawbacks of cop cover can be:
- if someone checks mafia, the mafia know they aren't the cop (this is entirely applicable here)


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## qenya

Mist1422 said:


> now I wonder if someone's role made sande+SJ crossed out in the pinglist, or if that means anything


Good spot! The thing my mind immediately jumps to is silencing, but I suppose there isn't really any way to confirm that.

On another topic, does anybody know when the day ends?


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## mewtini

Keldeo said:


> I would have brought it up in Cats, but I was mafia and it was helping us rule out people as the cop, hehe.


hehe >:(


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## mewtini

i will also ideally be more laid back than i have previously been, due to my cats trauma. but also it's me so i'll probably say that and then proceed to continue obsessively posting,



kokorico said:


> On another topic, does anybody know when the day ends?


lmao. this would be good info. (@IndigoEmmy / @Seshas ?)


kokorico said:


> The thing my mind immediately jumps to is silencing


like post silencing?


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## Novae

I can't get upset about cats because I am not a cat!



Spoiler



also, that is not close to the worst town loss I've had recently


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## qenya

mewtini said:


> kokorico said:
> 
> 
> 
> The thing my mind immediately jumps to is silencing
> 
> 
> 
> like post silencing?
Click to expand...

Yeah, a role that prohibits its target from posting during the day. Usually scum-aligned. But now I think about more carefully, giving the mafia the capability to silence two people per night in a thirteen-person game is... really kind of overpowered.

@sanderidge @Superjolt If you're able to, it would be really helpful if you could tell us whether you've received any indication that you've been targeted by a role!


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## mewtini

gotcha. hmm ... sande already posted though


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## qenya

Mist1422 said:


> also, that is not close to the worst town loss I've had recently


I think it's storytime!


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## Keldeo

Snooloo sniffs the fresh afternoon air.

--



kokorico said:


> Good spot! The thing my mind immediately jumps to is silencing, but I suppose there isn't really any way to confirm that.


Sorry, I don't follow - if you mean not being able to post in the thread, sande already made a post today.

I'm going to assume it's just a typo or something unless given other indication. Without anything else to talk about, I guess it's fair to look into.


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## qenya

mewtini said:


> hmm ... sande already posted though


Oh, so she did. Well spotted.

I guess we can put that theory to bed, rofl


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## qenya

(It would still be useful to know if they're aware of anything that targeted them, ofc)


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## Novae

kokorico said:


> Mist1422 said:
> 
> 
> 
> also, that is not close to the worst town loss I've had recently
> 
> 
> 
> I think it's storytime!
Click to expand...

@Seshas is a dirty pocketer is what >:c


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## mewtini

imagine getting pocketed!

lol what if the strikethrough is just the tvtropes leak 2.0


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## Superjolt

hello! I am not silenced and not aware of being targeted by anything!

btw do you all like my hat??


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## Bluwiikoon

My fellow Snomthren! I propose a test of character!

We shall have a grand banquet with the finest of foods! And those whom cannot consume at least five times their bodily weight is CLEARLY a fiendish Zorua in disguise!!


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## Bluwiikoon

Hardclaim VT again btw LOL


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## mewtini

bluuuuuuuuu


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## Bluwiikoon

Mewtiniiiiiiiiii~!


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## kyeugh

IndigoEmmy said:


> Nobody likes kyeugh! Just saying! lalalalalala!
> 
> 
> 
> Oh! It's the hit song _Nobody likes Skylar/Kyeugh/Qva_! It's been hitting the lists of best songs lately!
Click to expand...




IndigoEmmy said:


> It's trendy to diss kyeugh


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## IndigoClaudia

mewtini said:


> i will also ideally be more laid back than i have previously been, due to my cats trauma. but also it's me so i'll probably say that and then proceed to continue obsessively posting,
> 
> 
> 
> kokorico said:
> 
> 
> 
> On another topic, does anybody know when the day ends?
> 
> 
> 
> lmao. this would be good info. (@IndigoEmmy / @Seshas ?)
> 
> 
> kokorico said:
> 
> 
> 
> The thing my mind immediately jumps to is silencing
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> like post silencing?
Click to expand...


Oh yeah day ends in 48 hours from start... so 2:00 at june 26


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## qenya

Bluwiikoon said:


> Hardclaim VT again btw LOL


Unfortunately Eifie has messed up the calibration on my meme sensors and I can't tell whether or not this is actually a hardclaim


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## IndigoClaudia

The struck through stuff was a mistake! these people are not dead. I'm not sure what happened tbh


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## IndigoClaudia

IndigoEmmy said:


> @JuliaTheSeaTurtleQueen
> @Mist1422
> @Mr. Ultracool
> @Bluwiikoon
> @sanderidge
> @Superjolt
> @kyeugh
> @kokorico
> @M Plus 7
> @Ysabel
> @Keldeo
> @mewtini
> @Trebek


idk how this happened.


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## Bluwiikoon

I gotta shower but I wanted to pop in real quick to say "Snooom!" and wiggle enthusiastically


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## mewtini

kokorico said:


> Bluwiikoon said:
> 
> 
> 
> Hardclaim VT again btw LOL
> 
> 
> 
> Unfortunately Eifie has messed up the calibration on my meme sensors and I can't tell whether or not this is actually a hardclaim
Click to expand...

i for one think that everyone should just hardclaim VT!


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## Novae

see

rolling town was the most disappointing thing because I really, really wanted to lolfox


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## Eifie

hardclaim VT btw


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## Eifie

(HAHAHA PAGETOP k I'm gone)


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## mewtini

*eifie* she's not even in the game!


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## Zori

*Moderator Message: Oh god appearantly I screwed up my math really bad
Day Start/Ends will all be at 19:00 UTC

Also phase lengths are 48/24, not sure if that ever left host chat :P
oops*


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## sanderidge

where's that old "she doesn't even go here" meme for eifie 

also yes hello! i had an online appointment on the hour for an hour so i am only just getting back now


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## sanderidge

Bluwiikoon said:


> My fellow Snomthren! I propose a test of character!
> 
> We shall have a grand banquet with the finest of foods! And those whom cannot consume at least five times their bodily weight is CLEARLY a fiendish Zorua in disguise!!


you've given yourself away! if you were a real snom, you would know snoms eat snow, not several varieties of fine foods!


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## Zori

Mist1422 said:


> @Seshas is a dirty pocketer is what >:c


*Moderator Message: *


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## IndigoClaudia

*Moderator Message*: i will never not speak like this ever again.


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## Zori

_Votecount (#69):_
*Seshas* | 1 | Mist1422 (#19)
*Eifie* | 1 | mewtini (#63)



Spoiler: Vote History



mewtini votes Seshas [->1] (#14)
*Mist1422 votes Seshas [->2] (#19)
mewtini votes Seshas -> Eifie [1->1] (#63)*


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## sanderidge

(sandsnom gurgles quietly. it seems a little sheepish.) 

sorry for making a third short post on the same page, but now that i've caught up: re: strikethrough of my and superjolt's names on the pinglist, i really hope i wasn't silenced because i've just been shitposting without any regard for it, and i didn't get any messages about being targeted with anything overnight.


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## IndigoClaudia

Seshas said:


> _Votecount (#69):_
> *Seshas* | 1 | Mist1422 (#19)
> *Eifie* | 1 | mewtini (#63)
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Vote History
> 
> 
> 
> mewtini votes Seshas [->1] (#14)
> *Mist1422 votes Seshas [->2] (#19)
> mewtini votes Seshas -> Eifie [1->1] (#63)*


Seshas doesn't count as a vote.


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## IndigoClaudia

IndigoEmmy said:


> Seshas said:
> 
> 
> 
> _Votecount (#69):_
> *Seshas* | 1 | Mist1422 (#19)
> *Eifie* | 1 | mewtini (#63)
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Vote History
> 
> 
> 
> mewtini votes Seshas [->1] (#14)
> *Mist1422 votes Seshas [->2] (#19)
> mewtini votes Seshas -> Eifie [1->1] (#63)*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Seshas doesn't count as a vote.
Click to expand...

Neither does eifie for that matter.


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## Bluwiikoon

I feel like the flavor text indicates some kind of power role that can drag people  I'd assume such a thing would be a wolf power, so maybe for now we can assume kyeugh is innocent? Just the target of mean gossip LOL


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## Bluwiikoon

I nominate sande for prom queen/snom queen tbh


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## Bluwiikoon

The rock is clearly just meaningless flavour, but it also makes me wonder if it alludes to "throwing stones in glass houses". Or maybe someone's a bully who throws rocks at people


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## kyeugh

Snoms appear fully limbless to the lay observer, but it may surprise you to learn that this is not actually the case.  Each snom possesses a pair of subdermal limbs that it can wiggle about in order to achieve locomotion.  Because most snom are content to sit in a single spot and munch on snow until they metamorphose, these limbs are primarily used in the first moments of life, when newborn snoms break free from their eggs and work their way to a spot suitably far from its siblings.  If the snom remains sedentary for long enough, as most snoms do, their tiny pseudo-limbs eventually atrophy, and are completely useless by the time the snom matures fully.

However, in some situations and environments, a more nomadic lifestyle is demanded.  Snoms who move actively in the early stages of life are likely to retain their limbs into maturity and rarely through metamorphosis.  These snoms remain unusually agile and dexterous throughout their lives, at the expense of some of the powerful elemental defenses afforded to frosmoths on account of their highly fortified morphology.  In exceptionally rare cases, these limbs may develop musclulature sufficient for them to breach the epidermal layer and become true external limbs.

Kyeugh the snom is one such case.  Though her unusual appearance has relegated her to the position of an outcast and pariah, she has spent her life honing her anomalous limbs, weathering the ceaseless abuse all the time and using it as fuel for her boundless growth.  As the social order of her long-time home is thrown into disarray, she sees the anarchy for what it is—a ladder to the top.  And unfortunately for the other snoms, one requisite for ladder-climbing is the possession of legs.  Long, powerful legs.

A new era of snomstory is about to dawn.


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## Bluwiikoon

YASSSSSS QUEEEEN


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## Bluwiikoon

I live for this character arc


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## Bluwiikoon

Other Snow can lay
For 24 hours a day
But kyeugh can walk!
(She can walk!)


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## Bluwiikoon

Oh god I messed it up with the typo oh god oh fuck

I've let you all down already  I'M SORRY


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## Trebek

ok so i woke up this morning and was like <trebek don’t forget snomfia starts today> and then i did :< but i’m alive now!

i would also hardclaim VT but i’d rather choose my own calling in life :p maybe i’ll hardclaim alien


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## Bluwiikoon

Snom but with the little alien headband thing


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## Trebek

if snoms are villagers and zorua are mafia, does that make ditto alien?


----------



## Trebek

Spoiler


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## Bluwiikoon

Oh no!!! Both of them are baby!


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## Bluwiikoon

Bluwiikoon said:


> Oh god I messed it up with the typo oh god oh fuck
> 
> I've let you all down already  I'M SORRY


I promise I'm not actually upset or anything btw! Just joking around :D

That typo though OOF


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## Bluwiikoon

If you were an alien would you hardclaim healer or hardclaim cop


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## Bluwiikoon

Oh no what if every role is a snom wearing a little outfit/accessory

_Oh no........_


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## Trebek

now i’m just thinking about snom in a top hat


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## IndigoClaudia

Trebek said:


> if snoms are villagers and zorua are mafia, does that make ditto alien?


no. Absolutley not.


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## mewtini

kyeugh said:


> And unfortunately for the other snoms, one requisite for ladder-climbing is the possession of legs. Long, powerful legs.


what the fuck
i love this post. snomfia has truly begun

i wonder if i will ever start actually playing the game tbh


----------



## mewtini

mewtini said:


> i wonder if i will ever start actually playing the game tbh


i have decided i shall



Spoiler: tierlist









mewtini <3


juliatheseaturtlequeen
mist1422
mr. ultracool
bluwiikoon
sande
superjolt
kyeugh
kokorico
m plus 7
ysabel
keldeo
trebek


eifie
seshas


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## Bluwiikoon

Good tierlist mewtini!


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## kyeugh

not good.  put me higher on there


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## Bluwiikoon

Given the popularity mechanics and the limited number of players, would abstaining in this game be the best option until we can build up mechanical stuff?


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## IndigoClaudia

My tier list

*God: *Me

*Players: *Everyone but me or seshas

*Seshas*: Seshas


----------



## Bluwiikoon

Unrelated but I got a new graphics tablet today and I feel really epic  Art is suddenly fun again!


----------



## Bluwiikoon

Snom... WITH art equipment!

Hold the pen in my snootbooples


----------



## mewtini

kyeugh said:


> not good.  put me higher on there


you're at the top of the tierlist in my heart


Bluwiikoon said:


> Given the popularity mechanics and the limited number of players, would abstaining in this game be the best option until we can build up mechanical stuff?


i was wondering about this too but like ... that still gives mafia free kills right? idrk how those things weigh against each other though. i guess it wouldn't be the worst d1 strat/depends on how the day goes but i also kind of just haven't fully internalized the popularity mech either


----------



## mewtini

i probably agree that abstaining d1 matters less rn than it usually does


----------



## kyeugh

i do not think we should abstain tbh.  doing so will give the zorua among us more time to put in their foul roots, or whatever the equivalent of roots is for mammals.  thus precluding my ascent to power.


----------



## mewtini

yeah i'm still in favor of a d1 lynch but i'm also worried that i'm not giving enough weight to the mech or something


----------



## Bluwiikoon

If we mislynch tho we get a debuff  Which will be bad if/when mafia goons want to push more mislynches imo


----------



## qenya

Bluwiikoon said:


> Oh no what if every role is a snom wearing a little outfit/accessory
> 
> _Oh no........_


Oo you could have some fun with that. Cop gets a magnifying glass, maybe? I wonder what would be the best fit for a doctor.

I agree with kyeugh that abstaining isn't a great idea. Sooner or later we're going to have to yeet somebody, and statistically speaking that person is fairly likely to be town - delaying that just reduces the amount of information we have. And the first rank of unpopularity isn't too much of a disaster, probably _because_ it's so difficult to avoid.


----------



## Bluwiikoon

I will be sad if kyeugh has an epic night action but loses it with -2 popularity because somebody wrote a callout post for her on snom dot twitter


----------



## mewtini

so there're 13 of us right? so that's like three wolves


----------



## Bluwiikoon

So even if we mislynch today, we should theoretically have 8 townies tomorrow (or 7 if vig)? That does seem less bad than I thought, as long as we can all collectively agree on who to yeet ^^


----------



## kyeugh

i'm assuming that the diss track  lowered my popularity, right?  is everyone else also assuming that.  i guess that means someone used their action last night to make me feel bad which is totally fine and actually i approve, just lmk who you are so i know who not to vig tonight


----------



## Trebek

the real question is, if town decides to try to yeet someone today, it will be interesting to see how mafia react around the wagons, since they know how it will affect their popularity and we don’t


----------



## qenya

kyeugh said:


> Kyeugh the snom is one such case.  Though her unusual appearance has relegated her to the position of an outcast and pariah, she has spent her life honing her anomalous limbs, weathering the ceaseless abuse all the time and using it as fuel for her boundless growth.  As the social order of her long-time home is thrown into disarray, she sees the anarchy for what it is—a ladder to the top.  And unfortunately for the other snoms, one requisite for ladder-climbing is the possession of legs.  Long, powerful legs.


I'm now imagining prosthetic running blades tailored specifically for Snom. Thanks for that.

I agree the flavour is a bit too obvious to be anything but a lowering of your popularity. I don't really know how much of an effect that's likely to have on gameplay, though. Is it worth you not voting today, to avoid the risk of it falling further and causing you to lose your night action?


----------



## Trebek

on that note, something about the flavor has been bugging me

*the little rock in the road*


----------



## kyeugh

kokorico said:


> Is it worth you not voting today, to avoid the risk of it falling further and causing you to lose your night action?


 nah.  i do not have a night action tbh.  aside from the vigkill/cop check/heals i get to use each night but that's neither here nor there

i have to admit i am somewhat thinking emoji about the strikethrough


----------



## Novae

see every time someone calls zoruas scum I get sad because they are cute!!! and i wanna be a zorua!!! but sadly i had to roll town and enjoy it


----------



## kyeugh

perhaps we should eliminate the snoms for excluding the zorua simply because they are different


----------



## Trebek

besides, why can’t we keep the zorua around to defend us from the true villain...

stealth rock?


----------



## Zori

*Moderator Message: My go-to username before Seshas was ZoruaLuhansk*


----------



## kyeugh




----------



## Trebek

wait i didn’t make this connection until after i made the posts 


Trebek said:


> on that note, something about the flavor has been bugging me
> 
> *the little rock in the road*





Trebek said:


> besides, why can’t we keep the zorua around to defend us from the true villain...
> 
> stealth rock?


the rock is a stealth rock confirmed someone rapid spin plz


----------



## qenya

kokorico said:


> I'm now imagining prosthetic running blades tailored specifically for Snom. Thanks for that.


(I meant this entirely non-sarcastically, to be clear! Getting fed into the potential-fanfic-ideas blender for later.)


----------



## Bluwiikoon

We are x4 weak to rocks!!!! EVERYONE TAKE COVER


----------



## Bluwiikoon

Is there a mafia role that uhhh traps/yeets anyone who targets you at night?


----------



## Novae

Bluwiikoon said:


> Is there a mafia role that uhhh traps/yeets anyone who targets you at night?


paranoid gun owner

it's usually town but can be found as mafia in a few setups


----------



## qenya

Bluwiikoon said:


> Is there a mafia role that uhhh traps/yeets anyone who targets you at night?


By "traps/yeets", do you mean "kills"? If so, yeah, there are some reasonably standard roles similar to that. A Paranoid Gun Owner kills anyone who targets them, while a Revenger (also sometimes known as Bomb) kills anyone who _kills_ them. The latter is really quite strong and is often restricted in some way - for example, by only working on odd-numbered nights.

I think that a PGO is pretty unlikely to exist in this game because it doesn't really fit with the idea of N0 being a chance for power roles to get a head start without any deaths happening. But we're not really going to have any evidence for anything until someone dies. (One of the reasons I don't like daystart.)

Why do you ask?


----------



## mewtini

kyeugh said:


> i have to admit i am somewhat thinking emoji about the strikethrough


what are you thinking about it? my guesses so far are: i think it would be extremely hilarious if it were another tropes-style leak. that and i was thinking maybe it was just mods crossing people off who'd submitted a night action or something, but that doesn't really make sense since it is literally just two people, or maybe those who got targeted by an action (but again doesn't make sense because: two people)

i guess the formatting probably doesn't actually matter but it is a bit hmm


----------



## Zori

*Moderator Message: We would prefer it if you would not speculate about potential leaks in the game integrity.*


----------



## mewtini

does this confirm that it is indeed significant then

ok i'm done now


----------



## Bluwiikoon

Trebek's theory about the Innocuous Rock being a stealth rock makes me think there would be a role like that is all  We snoms are so weak to rocks!!


----------



## qenya

Seshas said:


> *Moderator Message: We would prefer it if you would not speculate about potential leaks in the game integrity.*


:o

...Are we allowed to speculate about _other people's reactions_ to potential leaks in the game integrity?


----------



## Zori

kokorico said:


> Seshas said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Moderator Message: We would prefer it if you would not speculate about potential leaks in the game integrity.*
> 
> 
> 
> :o
> 
> ...Are we allowed to speculate about _other people's reactions_ to potential leaks in the game integrity?
Click to expand...

As long as those other people aren't me, sure


----------



## kyeugh

the gm is trying to suppress free speech. now that is what i like to call, a prime opportunity for me to launch into a poorly informed tirade about the first amendment


----------



## Tangrowth

Hello, everyone! I am really looking forward to playing this game with you all.


----------



## mewtini

sup mp7 :D


----------



## Zori

_Votecount (#133):_
*Seshas* | 1 | Mist1422 (#19)
*Eifie* | 1 | mewtini (#63)
*Stealth Rock* | 1 | Trebek (#111)



Spoiler: Vote History



mewtini votes Seshas [->1] (#14)
*Mist1422 votes Seshas [->2] (#19)
mewtini votes Seshas -> Eifie [1->1] (#63)
Trebek votes Stealth Rock [->1] (#111)*


----------



## Ys_

Hi, I'm here!

As for the popularity scale, we can choose one or two people to vote for everyone and choose different people each day. That way we minimize the risk of too many snoms losing popularity at once.


----------



## Ys_

Trebek said:


> besides, why can’t we keep the zorua around to defend us from the true villain...
> 
> stealth rock?


I thought the true villain was Seshas? :o


----------



## sanderidge

i like the voting idea!


----------



## Bluwiikoon

Snom community representatives? :O


----------



## mewtini

voting idea is interesting! though i kind of feel like it's really dependent on town voting consensus? i guess we will cross that bridge when we get to it though, i agree that people with lower popularity scores should probably be careful either way :O


----------



## Trebek

mewtini said:


> voting idea is interesting! though i kind of feel like it's really dependent on town voting consensus? i guess we will cross that bridge when we get to it though, i agree that people with lower popularity scores should probably be careful either way :O


yeah, i wonder if there’s some bias between “town consensus is to vote on X” and X being mafia if a consensus is able to be made


----------



## mewtini

Trebek said:


> mewtini said:
> 
> 
> 
> voting idea is interesting! though i kind of feel like it's really dependent on town voting consensus? i guess we will cross that bridge when we get to it though, i agree that people with lower popularity scores should probably be careful either way :O
> 
> 
> 
> yeah, i wonder if there’s some bias between “town consensus is to vote on X” and X being mafia if a consensus is able to be made
Click to expand...

what do you mean? sorry, not totally following


----------



## Keldeo

Snooloo snoozes. Snzzz...

--

I think the rock is just a harmless rock that Emmy added in as flavor, haha.

Personally, I feel like we probably don't lose much by executing and voting as normal. I'm sure the popularity mechanic was balanced with the possibility of normal wagons and misvotes in mind, and I feel like consensus wagons usually kill town, but of course it depends. I do not think we should abstain - the numbers are pretty tight assuming there are 3 mafia, so I think we should take every chance we can get. 

I think Blu feels pretty similar to how he was in early Cats mafia, where he was town. 


@Ysabel, just to make sure I'm understanding correctly - do you mean like we "elect" someone and have an unspoken agreement for no one to vote besides that person? Have you got any ideas for who that person would be right now? :O 
- Also, sorry, but can you tell me more about your experience playing or watching mafia?

@Superjolt, how's life? :D

@sanderidge, what do you like about Ysabel's voting idea?

@Bluwiikoon, how do you feel about playing as the mafia alignment?


----------



## Keldeo

(HAHAHA PAGETOP k I'm gone)


----------



## mewtini

Keldeo said:


> I feel like consensus wagons usually kill town


this is my core worry


----------



## Trebek

mewtini said:


> Trebek said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> mewtini said:
> 
> 
> 
> voting idea is interesting! though i kind of feel like it's really dependent on town voting consensus? i guess we will cross that bridge when we get to it though, i agree that people with lower popularity scores should probably be careful either way :O
> 
> 
> 
> yeah, i wonder if there’s some bias between “town consensus is to vote on X” and X being mafia if a consensus is able to be made
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> what do you mean? sorry, not totally following
Click to expand...

i was thinking about it the wrong way actually, so feel free to ignore that :p i’m just meh about consensus voting like keldeo said


----------



## mewtini

i admittedly just really like votecount/wagon formation analysis (even if i suck at it lmfao) so that's a big part of it, i think that 'electing' a rep would kill the rival wagon thing that i'd say is like ... more important than keeping popularity levels up. and then there's the issue of consensus wagons being pretty unlikely to hit scum (which is definitely more important than keeping popularity levels up)


----------



## Novae

Or we could ignore popularity entirely in order to stop mafia from being able to PR hunt as well tbh


----------



## sanderidge

i am posting this to remind myself to post again after i finish watching the celeste stream and napping


----------



## Ys_

Keldeo said:


> @Ysabel, just to make sure I'm understanding correctly - do you mean like we "elect" someone and have an unspoken agreement for no one to vote besides that person? Have you got any ideas for who that person would be right now? :O
> - Also, sorry, but can you tell me more about your experience playing or watching mafia?


I was thinking we can decide on someone to vote for and then, yeah, pick a person from the pool of people who agree for the person to be voted. And no, I don't have a clear idea right now about who. But yours and Mewtini's concerns are fair. If we decide on this method we could still have the unofficial votes for a wagon or another, and there could still be more than one wagon if that happens. I guess the difference is that the hosts wouldn't count those votes since they wouldn't be official. But it was mostly a suggestion if people were worried.

Either way, are we sure this popularity system is part of the game? I'm thinking of this specific post:



Seshas said:


> Mr. Ultracool said:
> 
> 
> 
> Wait, so the poor Zorua aren't motivated by getting rid of Snom?
> 
> 
> 
> Maybe.
> Everything flavor-related said by Emmy is canon
> Everything flavor-related said by me is a joke
Click to expand...

-

Anyway. I have at least six games of experience. I've done fairly well, though there's always more to learn. In one of those games I was mafia, in another, I was the serial killer, and iirc on the rest, I was town. I had a power role in at least two of those, though I think I'm better at day analysis than with night actions. As for watching, I've watched at least three in other forums and I watched the TVT one here though I didn't follow super closely due to the amount of posts xD If you want any specific info I can expand on this.


----------



## Novae

Popularity isn't flavor, it's a mechanic


----------



## qenya

Hmm, now that he's made a few posts I'm pretty damn sure (let's say 85%) that Keldeo is town. I get that I've only played a couple of games with y'all so it's maybe a little bit early to be thinking about meta, but having had the chance to observe his thought process as scum last game makes me more confident in this. As a wolf I feel he comes across as a little combative, I think because he tries to distance himself from his scumbuddies and then realises he needs to be treating everyone else similarly as well. I'm not getting that sort of vibe from him this time at all.

I'm not as keen as he is on Bluwiikoon though. It's true that he's meming in a similar way to his behaviour in Cats (2019), but back then he sobered up when people actually started talking mafia. In this game we're already making plans but I think he's made, like, one non-joke post so far? And that was proposing an abstention. Idk, just seems a bit odd.

In principle, I like the idea of having a representative vote for us to minimise changes in popularity, but I definitely think we ought to decide on the yeet target with an actual faux-voting system (or by casting real votes and withdrawing them before EoD), so that the representative doesn't have the prerogative to use their subjective interpretation of the "town consensus". On the other hand, that might be pretty difficult to organise and I think Keldeo has a point that the popularity mechanic is probably balanced around normal voting behaviour.



sanderidge said:


> i am posting this to remind myself to post again after i finish watching the celeste stream and napping


If you have a moment at some point, do you think you could have a quick pass over the last few pages and see if you notice any interactions that jump out to you as possibly w/w?


----------



## Trebek

the other issue i have with representatives is that it seems easy for mafia to weasel themselves into the process, maybe even electing a member of their own as the rep?


----------



## mewtini

i agree with you on keldeo tbh, if only because i think my gut feelings on him have been correct thus far (sample size: literally 2 games)



kokorico said:


> I'm not as keen as he is on Bluwiikoon though. It's true that he's meming in a similar way to his behaviour in Cats (2019), but back then he sobered up when people actually started talking mafia. In this game we're already making plans but I think he's made, like, one non-joke post so far? And that was proposing an abstention. Idk, just seems a bit odd.


fwiw i also can't tell how i feel about blu's talk around abstention, though i think i'm chalking it up to "scary new mech" thus far?



kokorico said:


> On the other hand, that might be pretty difficult to organise and I think Keldeo has a point that the popularity mechanic is probably balanced around normal voting behaviour.


having waking nightmares rn of underlining for Unofficial Vote and bolding for the legit vote ...

oh also @sanderidge idk if this came up elsewhere but what mafia experience do you have?


----------



## mewtini

Trebek said:


> the other issue i have with representatives is that it seems easy for mafia to weasel themselves into the process, maybe even electing a member of their own as the rep?


yeah also this, esp since we inevitably kind of lose the spontaneity of EoD this way :p


----------



## Trebek

mewtini said:


> Trebek said:
> 
> 
> 
> the other issue i have with representatives is that it seems easy for mafia to weasel themselves into the process, maybe even electing a member of their own as the rep?
> 
> 
> 
> yeah also this, esp since we inevitably kind of lose the spontaneity of EoD this way :p
Click to expand...

yeah, i just have bad Vibes about a mafia member becoming the representative and “oh no i wasn’t around to vote” if the votes on maf


----------



## mewtini

Mist1422 said:


> Or we could ignore popularity entirely in order to stop mafia from being able to PR hunt as well tbh


i think i’m missing something ... are you referring to the roles that interact w popularity?


----------



## Keldeo

Snooloo sits cutely or something. idk. 

--

Thank you, Ysabel, that’s cool! Can I ask, do you prefer playing as town or non-town, and why? What do you think are the most important traits for a town and for a mafia? How do you usually go about looking for mafia when you are town? I'm sorry if this is a lot of questions, I’d just like to get a sense of how you approach playing.

mewtini / Trebek / Mist, I’d be interested in any thoughts so far that you have :0 Particularly, mewtini/Trebek, I'm interested if you have any thoughts on Ysabel for proposing her plan, given that you seem to disagree with it. 

koko, I'm a bit confused about how you arrived at that read on me at this stage. I was not present for the equivalent earlygame time period in Cats, I said I would be more relaxed this game regardless of alignment, and I perceived myself as townreading most of my partners in early Cats, not distancing that hard. Could you try and explain your thought process a little more? Also, could you talk about why you asked sande that question specifically? You can answer this latter question after they answer.

Do you have an active scumread on Blu for what you mention or do you just disagree with my read? My read on Blu is thin for sure, but I think he has definitely brought up game-related things, such as his speculation on the flavor text's relevance, and done so in a kind of unprompted way. I also think he might feel a bit more self-conscious as mafia and I don't really think any self-consciousness has bled through.


----------



## kyeugh

i think if we choose a leader, it should be the one who stands out among us. but, hm, now that i mention it, it seems like only one of us is capable of standing at all...


----------



## qenya

mewtini said:


> Mist1422 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Or we could ignore popularity entirely in order to stop mafia from being able to PR hunt as well tbh
> 
> 
> 
> i think i’m missing something ... are you referring to the roles that interact w popularity?
Click to expand...

I interpreted this as saying that people with PRs should vote as normal, without worrying about whether they might lose their night action from unpopularity, because otherwise the mafia might be able to pick up on their reluctance to vote.


----------



## mewtini

Keldeo said:


> mewtini / Trebek / Mist, I’d be interested in any thoughts so far that you have :0 Particularly, mewtini/Trebek, I'm interested if you have any thoughts on Ysabel for proposing her plan, given that you seem to disagree with it.


i want to say i townlean her for proposing it tbh - i think being concerned about popularity levels, especially after blu brought up abstention with some seriousness, makes sense and idk if i see reason for a wolf to spend that much time on The Plan

general thoughts are "i'm not paying very much attention today and will have to think harder later" and i kind of like how everyone who's posted sounds. if i had to pick out people who i'm townleaning on most, probably you/trebek/koko/blu so far?


----------



## mewtini

mewtini said:


> if i had to pick out people who i'm townleaning on most, probably you/trebek/koko/blu so far?


ysabel is there too but i'm kinda just metareading thus far tbh.


----------



## mewtini

kokorico said:


> I interpreted this as saying that people with PRs should vote as normal, without worrying about whether they might lose their night action from unpopularity, because otherwise the mafia might be able to pick up on their reluctance to vote.


oh thanks! i forgot that losing actions was a thing :p


----------



## Keldeo

A v-shaped formation of Cramorants flies overhead. Snooloo snuffles softly.

--



mewtini said:


> i want to say i townlean her for proposing it tbh - i think being concerned about popularity levels, especially after blu brought up abstention with some seriousness, makes sense and idk if i see reason for a wolf to spend that much time on The Plan
> 
> general thoughts are "i'm not paying very much attention today and will have to think harder later" and i kind of like how everyone who's posted sounds. if i had to pick out people who i'm townleaning on most, probably you/trebek/koko/blu so far?


Thanks! Can you tell me more about why for those four? I'm particularly interested in your read on Trebek. 

re: Ysabel, why do you think a mafia would not spend that much time on that proposal?

(I don't expect scumreads from you - I know it's early, and I don't really have any either - but it looks like the only two people who haven't posted are Julia and Mr. Ultracool so I doubt everyone so far has been town, hehe.)


----------



## qenya

Keldeo said:


> koko, I'm a bit confused about how you arrived at that read on me at this stage. I was not present for the equivalent earlygame time period in Cats, I said I would be more relaxed this game regardless of alignment, and I perceived myself as townreading most of my partners in early Cats, not distancing that hard. Could you try and explain your thought process a little more?


Yes, of course! When I say "combative", I don't mean that you aggressively tunnel people or that you deliberately antagonise them, but rather that you carefully identify and expose (what you present as) weak spots in their posts. (Kind of like you're doing with me now, in fact - although it doesn't really fit the pattern, since you're not doing it to anyone else and I know that I'm not your partner.) I don't remember your post saying that you planned to be more relaxed, but I don't think it would have made a great deal of difference; from what I've seen so far, nobody is really varying their basic style of play, even if they're being less serious about it.

I can understand if it seems like I've jumped on this a bit early - that's possibly because I'd already saved it up as a piece of meta info before the game started, so I was specifically looking for it when you started posting. In hindsight I should maybe have waited a little longer for verification, but eh, it's out there now. And I don't think I'm wrong, though I concede that might be confbias.



Keldeo said:


> Also, could you talk about why you asked sande that question specifically? You can answer this latter question after they answer.


Absolutely, there is method to my madness. By all means nag me if I seem to have forgotten.



Keldeo said:


> Do you have an active scumread on Blu for what you mention or do you just disagree with my read? My read on Blu is thin for sure, but I think he has definitely brought up game-related things, such as his speculation on the flavor text's relevance, and done so in a kind of unprompted way. I also think he might feel a bit more self-conscious as mafia and I don't really think any self-consciousness has bled through.


I suppose you could call it a scumlean in that I don't really have anything better to go off yet, but no, this isn't anything approaching concrete - at the moment I'm just throwing things out there as they come to mind. I do disagree with a "lack of self-consciousness", though - what else do you call post #80?


----------



## mewtini

Keldeo said:


> Thanks! Can you tell me more about why for those four? I'm particularly interested in your read on Trebek.


trebek is mostly a personality read, it's not all that strong but i liked how he talked about ysabel's plan + his 109:


Trebek said:


> the real question is, if town decides to try to yeet someone today, it will be interesting to see how mafia react around the wagons, since they know how it will affect their popularity and we don’t


for you it's gut and what koko said about combativeness, though i think i'm making the mistake of comparing your cats midgame to your earlygame here. tbh i think it'll probably settle into a keldeo-fear-nullread since i kinda doubt my ability to read you on d1 ever :|

koko's 150 felt good, i think, though e is the weakest of those four. and i just like blu's tone because i think it's similar to cats lol


----------



## mewtini

kokorico said:


> I do disagree with a "lack of self-consciousness", though - what else do you call post #80?


i read that as a joke tbh. i think keldeo's blu read was mostly based on his openness though, or at least mine is - he definitely expressed self-doubt a fair amount of times in cats but i think the general purity feels similar to me so far


----------



## mewtini

i said that kind of stupidly but i guess i'm thinking self-consciousness as in being more worried about optics as opposed to the self-doubt kind of thing


----------



## Novae

no thoughts
head empty
mewtini town


----------



## qenya

FWIW, if I had to pick someone other than Keldeo to townlean it would also be Trebek. In my case it's based in no small part on his #109:


Trebek said:


> the real question is, if town decides to try to yeet someone today, it will be interesting to see how mafia react around the wagons, since they know how it will affect their popularity and we don’t


which is really not something I would expect the mafia to want to bring to our attention, except as some sort of mega-weird gambit centring around a popularity-affecting role, or I guess if they thought it would be super-obvious to us (hahahahaha) and wanted to bring it up first for townie points.


----------



## kyeugh

Mist1422 said:


> no thoughts
> head empty
> mewtini town


 remember how last time i pointed out that it was statistically impossible for me to be mafia again, and i turned out to be right? well now it’s statistically impossible that mewtini is town.


----------



## mewtini

Keldeo said:


> re: Ysabel, why do you think a mafia would not spend that much time on that proposal?
> 
> (I don't expect scumreads from you - I know it's early, and I don't really have any either - but it looks like the only two people who haven't posted are Julia and Mr. Ultracool so I doubt everyone so far has been town, hehe.)


i forgot to reply to this part
i guess i just think it would be a lot of visibility for mafia to have put on themselves? and the way i read it it seemed to come from a fairly sincere place

i do not have any scumleans though either yet tbh. i'm just kind of like "uhmmm zero/lowposters?!"


----------



## mewtini

kyeugh said:


> remember how last time i pointed out that it was statistically impossible for me to be mafia again, and i turned out to be right? well now it’s statistically impossible that mewtini is town.


hey maybe my mafia roll got absorbed by when i rolled 3p! >:(


----------



## Novae

kyeugh said:


> Mist1422 said:
> 
> 
> 
> no thoughts
> head empty
> mewtini town
> 
> 
> 
> remember how last time i pointed out that it was statistically impossible for me to be mafia again, and i turned out to be right? well now it’s statistically impossible that mewtini is town.
Click to expand...


----------



## Keldeo

Snooloo snools disconcertedly. Maybe Snooloo shouldn't be thinking so hard about a game with less than 200 posts.

--

Mist, can you tell me more about mewtini being town? I'm leaning that way but like, whatever shrug early read and she hasn't shown that much depth yet. 

mewtini, could you explain what exactly you mean by your personality read on Trebek? Like, how did his talking about Ysabel's plan match what you would expect of him as town? Also, what made you like koko's #150? 

I'm still a little sketched out by how early eir read on me was - I don't have a good grasp on eir playstyle but e read as fairly "TMI-y" as mafia in Cats (townreading people e knew to be town, sometimes based on very little), and like, I'd made literally 4 posts, ~2 of which were talking about this game and not theory. For a meta read that's based on the enduring absence of a certain form of hostility, it still feels a bit premature even if e was coming into the game looking for it. I would like other people to talk to me about this, I know I may be seizing onto something that isn't meaningful. 

For Blu, I don't mean displayed self-consciousness, I mean like... feeling less good about making posts at all, including posts about being self-conscious. It's about the mindset behind him making posts, not the mindset he talks about in the posts, if that makes sense. This is based on speculation on how he feels about playing as the mafia alignment (which is speculation that may be totally off base), so I don't really feel like arguing it right now - I'm sure my thoughts on him will continue developing as he continues posting. 

I also do think it's kind of obvious that the mafia know whether wagons affect their popularity and town don't, though that can all be WIFOMed.


----------



## kyeugh

mewtini said:


> kyeugh said:
> 
> 
> 
> remember how last time i pointed out that it was statistically impossible for me to be mafia again, and i turned out to be right? well now it’s statistically impossible that mewtini is town.
> 
> 
> 
> hey maybe my mafia roll got absorbed by when i rolled 3p! >:(
Click to expand...

 hmm, actually, you’re into something here...
it is statistically 50% impossible that mewtini isn’t not mafia.


----------



## Novae

am no thoughts head empty but I’m just getting the same vibes from mewtini that I did in cats (2019)


----------



## Superjolt

Keldeo said:


> @Superjolt, how's life? :D


Life is good! Feeling pretty tired rn (might go to bed early tbh). Also wishing I had a new laptop!

I agree about voting as normal here. Also agree about Blu feeling same as Cats maf so far. 

Note to self to take another look at koko's posts when I'm not tired (just to read them with a clear head), also I feel like the Keldeo read was a little quick maybe

I feel like I don't any other thoughts really right now but it might be because I'm tired and brain is failing (I already kind of dozed off after I started typing this post oops!)


----------



## Trebek

Keldeo said:


> Particularly, mewtini/Trebek, I'm interested if you have any thoughts on Ysabel for proposing her plan, given that you seem to disagree with it.


i think i’m in agreement with mewt here mostly? like, i disagree with the idea on a pragmatic level but i don’t disagree with the mindset that comes up with that idea, if that makes any sense

i’m only half alive so just keeping up with posts and not really thinking too hard about reads currently, but will answer questions!


----------



## kyeugh

Keldeo said:


> I'm still a little sketched out by how early eir read on me was - I don't have a good grasp on eir playstyle but e read as fairly "TMI-y" as mafia in Cats (townreading people e knew to be town, sometimes based on very little), and like, I'd made literally 4 posts, ~2 of which were talking about this game and not theory. For a meta read that's based on the enduring absence of a certain form of hostility, it still feels a bit premature even if e was coming into the game looking for it. I would like other people to talk to me about this, I know I may be seizing onto something that isn't meaningful.


 i kind of can see what you’re saying here. however (and i might be misremembering here) i feel like this kind of read isn’t unlike em to make, is it? my opinion will depend a lot on how willing e is to adjust that read. overall i don’t think it’s necessarily bad to form a small, malleable lean based on analyzing your posts by specific qualities, and eir explanation reads sincerely enough to me for now.


----------



## mewtini

Keldeo said:


> mewtini, could you explain what exactly you mean by your personality read on Trebek? Like, how did his talking about Ysabel's plan match what you would expect of him as town? Also, what made you like koko's #150?


personality read where i think i'd expect him to be either significantly quieter or more calculated in his posting as a wolf. him talking about ysabel's plan is a shallower part, i was going a bit more off of the other post i'd quoted, i just thought that his thought surrounding possible vulnerabilities in the plan made more sense as worried!town than not

realizing that my reaction to 150 was kind just of me seeing a longpost and finding that towny tbh, now that i go back to try to elaborate why i liked it lol. i might drop koko from the light townlean to null because i kind of see what you mean by the quick read on you/i am maybe unreasonably confused by eir blu talk but that's probably just like. People Attempting To Grasp For Read Content in earlygame


----------



## mewtini

but i also find it really hard to read koko (as i think i've talked about in both tvt and cats) so i will put a pin in this


----------



## kyeugh

i think it is ok for koko to be town snom today. after these last few games e needs a break from and killing people tbh. (statistically.)


----------



## mewtini

Keldeo said:


> I also do think it's kind of obvious that the mafia know whether wagons affect their popularity and town don't, though that can all be WIFOMed.


oh it is! i just think it wouldn't be something that would be directly brought up like that by mafia


----------



## mewtini

mewtini said:


> i just thought that his thought


mfw


----------



## Keldeo

Snooloo flops.

--

I guess mewtini thinking out loud while trying to read koko can be town.



kyeugh said:


> i kind of can see what you’re saying here. however (and i might be misremembering here) i feel like this kind of read isn’t unlike em to make, is it? my opinion will depend a lot on how willing e is to adjust that read. overall i don’t think it’s necessarily bad to form a small, malleable lean based on analyzing your posts by specific qualities, and eir explanation reads sincerely enough to me for now.


Sure, e seems sincere enough and I'd like to let em talk about others and let things play out and all. If you think it's a "small, malleable lean", though, I think you read less confidence into eir statement of the read than I do. It was pretty ? to me because it seemed fairly confident, whereas I feel like I've definitely been in my mafia range so far.


----------



## mewtini

Keldeo said:


> It was pretty ? to me because it seemed fairly confident, whereas I feel like I've definitely been in my mafia range so far


this is what i'd realized pretty much, i initially read it as a throwaway read (more similar to eir read on blu) but then when i went back it occurred to me that that was like, not the energy, and that it didn't totally jive with the more longterm-meta nature of the read. but i also read em as sincere enough so far, idk


----------



## mewtini

sorry i am being lazy today tbh. i will do better ... eventually


----------



## sanderidge

_sandsnom noodles around on the ground. it seems to be embarassed about talking so much._
-----
(me, flailing quietly: okay first of all how do yall actually keep track of stuff that happens in the thread. i am frightened of skimming something and then someone going "sande avoided answering my question when i asked it twice!" and having to say "i am sorry i cannot read i am jared 19" which sounds flimsy and not great so i am reading the thread with this reply box open in another tab so i can add to it while i go)



kyeugh said:


> i'm assuming that the diss track  lowered my popularity, right?  is everyone else also assuming that.


i'm also assuming this! i don't know why no one else has wondered how much it's lowered your popularity by, bc that's something i was thinking on my reread, but i guess lowering your popularity immediately to a level where you lose night actions is overpowered and cruel? so i am sitting on the assumption that you are at -1 popularity because of that 



Keldeo said:


> Personally, I feel like we probably don't lose much by executing and voting as normal. I'm sure the popularity mechanic was balanced with the possibility of normal wagons and misvotes in mind, and I feel like consensus wagons usually kill town, but of course it depends. I do not think we should abstain - the numbers are pretty tight assuming there are 3 mafia, so I think we should take every chance we can get.
> 
> @sanderidge, what do you like about Ysabel's voting idea?
> 
> @Bluwiikoon, how do you feel about playing as the mafia alignment?


(i snipped some parts of the post that i'm not replying to/concerned about out, but hopefully those are Allowed Changes within a quote)
i'm worried about voting as normal because if we vote wrong twice, any of us who voted that way will lose night actions, which sounds Not Great? i liked the voting idea ysabel had because that seems like it would avoid wiping out a potential lot of power roles' ability to act overnight, and also it would give us another way to test out how people behave with specific pressures on them. i think it was mewtini that said they like the Organic Feel of eod with switching and vote analysis anyway, but if we just proceed as if we were _really _voting while voting for someone for the representative to vote for (i hope that makes sense) i feel like you could get that analysis and avoid a lot of people possibly losing powers overnight? 

also is it just me or does that last question keldeo asked sound really loaded?! 



Mist1422 said:


> Or we could ignore popularity entirely in order to stop mafia from being able to PR hunt as well tbh


i am not entirely sure what this means so for clarification: this means we could ignore popularity entirely so that no one would exhibit iffiness about popularity mechanics which would betray I Have A Night Role I Want To Use which the mafia could pick up on and get at, right?
... which is probably a good idea, actually. i still kind of like the idea of voting for someone to vote for, with assigned reps, because i do feel like that would get around the iffiness and the potential power role losses. 



kokorico said:


> If you have a moment at some point, do you think you could have a quick pass over the last few pages and see if you notice any interactions that jump out to you as possibly w/w?


i don't find anything iffy in pages 1-8 :'D it doesn't seem like people are really interacting with each other that much before you posted that? is there something i'm supposed to be picking up on... 

re: my mafia experience, 
i used to play oldstyle tcodfia in like... 2015, 2016 ish? these were more mech-heavy, discussion-light games that i eventually stopped signing up for because baby me never knew how to play mechanically correctly - i tended to get one of the more powerful roles and not use them very well and also be too scared to say anything in the thread if i had any useful info. i also never really learned what _would _be mechanically Good or Useful because i'd die and stop reading the thread lol. there wasn't very much dicussion in them anyway. but i am trying to move in a new direction! posting thoughts! trying to get things down and be useful in the thread! ... i don't know how it'll work out but at least i can say i was trying my best!
-----
_sandsnom turns away from you. it seems meditative. _


----------



## sanderidge

_sandsnom bounces up and down. it seems to want to make a clarification to its last post._
-----
i forgot to say!!! i did read through All of cats mafia. so i do have that experience


----------



## kyeugh

Keldeo said:


> Snooloo flops.
> 
> --
> 
> I guess mewtini thinking out loud while trying to read koko can be town.
> 
> 
> 
> kyeugh said:
> 
> 
> 
> i kind of can see what you’re saying here. however (and i might be misremembering here) i feel like this kind of read isn’t unlike em to make, is it? my opinion will depend a lot on how willing e is to adjust that read. overall i don’t think it’s necessarily bad to form a small, malleable lean based on analyzing your posts by specific qualities, and eir explanation reads sincerely enough to me for now.
> 
> 
> 
> Sure, e seems sincere enough and I'd like to let em talk about others and let things play out and all. If you think it's a "small, malleable lean", though, I think you read less confidence into eir statement of the read than I do. It was pretty ? to me because it seemed fairly confident, whereas I feel like I've definitely been in my mafia range so far.
Click to expand...

 if e clings to the read or keeps reading too far into little things i’ll certainly agree, but for now i don’t think it’s unlikely that e was just looking forward to analyzing your posts and holding them up to your meta, and got excited that e could work out some kind of read from it.


----------



## sanderidge

i have one more habit from Old Tcofdia style days and this is the assumption that Everyone Has A Role. i am not used to the concept of vanilla anyones which is kind of why i am so concerned about a lot of us losing the ability to act overnight + assuming skylar does in my thoughts about diss track. i don't think/assume Every role has a night action (like aliens don't have night actions but they do have Roles) but i tend to make such assumptions


----------



## mewtini

sanderidge said:


> i think it was mewtini that said they like the Organic Feel of eod with switching and vote analysis anyway, but if we just proceed as if we were _really _voting while voting for someone for the representative to vote for (i hope that makes sense) i feel like you could get that analysis and avoid a lot of people possibly losing powers overnight?


yeah, that was me! i guess i just have my doubts about running like a ... voting simulation, and then somehow getting reps to vote according to that, while maintaining the pressure of the real thing. and the popularity tradeoff stuff doesn't seem worth losing all of that to me :T

i do like sande's wall though, and the remark about skylar's popularity is fair. i was assuming -1 just bc it seemed like a basic unit, yeah


----------



## mewtini

sanderidge said:


> i am not entirely sure what this means so for clarification: this means we could ignore popularity entirely so that no one would exhibit iffiness about popularity mechanics which would betray I Have A Night Role I Want To Use which the mafia could pick up on and get at, right?


yeah mist clarified later that that was what they meant


sanderidge said:


> also is it just me or does that last question keldeo asked sound really loaded?!


i can see why you'd think that though i think it's pretty par for the course for him (also tbh i'm glad he asked blu that)

sande do you have any Vibechecks so far?


----------



## kyeugh

sanderidge said:


> i'm worried about voting as normal because if we vote wrong twice, any of us who voted that way will lose night actions, which sounds Not Great?


i don’t disagree with this thinking but i think it’s more productive to worry about that when losing our night actions is a more immediate threat. some people getting docked one point today isn’t the end of the world, and if there’s a role that decreases popularity arbitrarily, i assume (or hope) that there’s one that increases it too, right? i’d rather not do this rep thing or whatever today, and instead just play normally for now. there’ll always be time to fret about the popularity issue once it’s more of... an issue. 

that said i will probably be personally abstaining today.


----------



## sanderidge

mewtini said:


> sande do you have any Vibechecks so far?


not yet :'D i think i'm going to come across as waffly for the entire game bc tbh i am scared of making reads (what if i'm wrong?! what if i defend the wrong people?!) but hopefully that's currently understandable with not a lot going on. maybe more things will happen tomorrow (not toMorrow)! but i'm still feeling very new to the style of "let's read people" so i don't want to be like "i'll have a tierlist by tomorrow!" because, uh, idk if i will. 



kyeugh said:


> i don’t disagree with this thinking but i think it’s more productive to worry about that when losing our night actions is a more immediate threat. some people getting docked one point today isn’t the end of the world, and if there’s a role that decreases popularity arbitrarily, i assume (or hope) that there’s one that increases it too, right? i’d rather not do this rep thing or whatever today, and instead just play normally for now. there’ll always be time to fret about the popularity issue once it’s more of... an issue.


okay yeah i think this makes a lot of sense. i'm starting to go back and forth on the rep thing tbh because i'm starting to doubt that we'd be able to actually get meaningful votes in that way (that person would have to remember to check the thread in time + if we pick mafia, they might get in a free Lynch Whoever I Want in exchange for us lynching them the next day, which could be really bad).


----------



## Keldeo

Snooloo is simply vibing.

--

I have actually been in a game where we were mechanically forced to elect a representative who could shoot someone instead of voting normally, so like, it's definitely feasible to keep an unofficial tally of voting. But if this game has 10 town and 3 mafia, we already get to LYLO after 3 misyeets, so I'm... not really that concerned about the PR losses at -2 popularity. I think we can always also reassess if people are on a misyeet today. (In that game the rep ended up shooting the most correct townie... so it goes.) 

I vaguely like sande for ""tone"" aka no real reason. kyeugh probably has greater than random chance to be town in the exact world that the "make someone lose popularity" effect is a result of a mafia role, if the mafia didn't think about like, targeting one of their own to spew them as town - I guess I could see a world where that role is town or the mafia wanted to WIFOM.

kyeugh, have you got thoughts on people besides koko? :o



sanderidge said:


> also is it just me or does that last question keldeo asked sound really loaded?!


Hmm? I meant "how do you feel about wolfing in general", not like, "how do you do, Mr. Wolf?" I try to not load my questions, haha.

Also, if you're town, being wrong is part of being town, and if you don't post many stances it can be hard to read you! But I know that posting without worrying about being wrong is easier said than done, so post whatever you are comfortable with tbh. (But also I'm rooting for you and it's absolutely fine if you make reads and they're wrong, everyone has been there...!)


----------



## Bluwiikoon

Keldeo said:


> @Bluwiikoon, how do you feel about playing as the mafia alignment?


Dang Keldeo out here wigging me already 

It's ok! I wish we got dental insurance but that's how it be sometimes  How goes your third game of being mafia aligned?


----------



## mewtini

Bluwiikoon said:


> How goes your third game of being mafia aligned?


omg.... keldeo was a towny king in tropes!

but also i think he meant being mafia-aligned as a concept.


----------



## Bluwiikoon

mewtini said:


> Bluwiikoon said:
> 
> 
> 
> How goes your third game of being mafia aligned?
> 
> 
> 
> omg.... keldeo was a towny king in tropes!
> 
> but also i think he meant being mafia-aligned as a concept.
Click to expand...

Oooo!! That would probably be an interesting experience  I think being able to communicate with some pals would ease my mind a bit, but then again, having to shank friends would be like (crying kid holding gun meme image)

I'm only joke about mafia Keldeo! But if he's maf _again_ this game and I'm townie again this game I'm gonna feel so betrayed


----------



## mewtini

Bluwiikoon said:


> I'm only joke about mafia Keldeo!


oh no i know, i was just being facetious and saying that this would hypothetically be his second wolfgame :p


----------



## Bluwiikoon

It is 5am my dudes and I'm gonna eat some ice cream  I've done good the past few days!!


----------



## Bluwiikoon

But... what if.... Keldeo was secretly SUPER maf in tvtropes and his SUPER win condition is winning three times in a row


----------



## mewtini

i think this is going to be another game of me getting pocketed by people who sound cute inthread and then getting fucked over tbh. i feel it in my bones.


----------



## Bluwiikoon

I hardclaim being pocketed by mewtini because I like mewtini a lot and she's my friend :D

Mewtini would NEVER!!


----------



## sanderidge

_sandsnom is lying on the ground thinking. but then again, isn't it always lying down?_
-----
snafia (snom mafia)...


----------



## Trebek

there are 2 wolves inside of you

one calls it snafia 
the other calls it snomfia


----------



## mewtini

both wolves are gay


----------



## Trebek

Bluwiikoon said:


> I hardclaim being pocketed by mewtini because I like mewtini a lot and she's my friend :D
> 
> Mewtini would NEVER!!


im gonna counterclaim being pocketed by mewt :p

jk it can be both!


----------



## mewtini

are you guys just trying to pocket me tbh >:o

ryan have you given/do you have any reads already? i forgot


----------



## kyeugh

Keldeo said:


> kyeugh, have you got thoughts on people besides koko? :o


 i think i like sande’s posting. that’s pretty much it.


----------



## Trebek

mewtini said:


> are you guys just trying to pocket me tbh >:o
> 
> ryan have you given/do you have any reads already? i forgot


vague townlean of ysabel over The Proposal (starring sandra bullock and ryan reynolds) but other than that, just sorta sitting back and soaking in the vibes (i have typical D1 angst bc not knowing mechanics makes things scary)


----------



## Trebek

also would you complain if we were trying to pocket you >:)


----------



## kyeugh

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1275459161384341506


----------



## mewtini

Trebek said:


> also would you complain if we were trying to pocket you >:)


considering my trauma, yes tbh D:


----------



## kyeugh

man. in that case guess i need to masonize someone else to help me figure out who to vig and heal and inspect.


----------



## mewtini

kyeugh said:


> man. in that case guess i need to masonize someone else to help me figure out who to vig and heal and inspect.


how do i angry and sad react at the same time


----------



## Trebek

mewtini said:


> Trebek said:
> 
> 
> 
> also would you complain if we were trying to pocket you >:)
> 
> 
> 
> considering my trauma, yes tbh D:
Click to expand...

ok ill stop then :D

*mewtini*


----------



## Trebek

*unvote*


----------



## kyeugh

i forgot that your power was basically vig/heal/inspect. i was just trying to come up with an op sounding role. i didn’t mean to burn you i’m trying to delete it


----------



## mewtini

Trebek said:


> ok ill stop then :D
> 
> *mewtini*


the mewtini-ing. the ... the mutiny ...



kyeugh said:


> i forgot that your power was basically vig/heal/inspect. i was just trying to come up with an op sounding role. i didn’t mean to burn you i’m trying to delete it


likely story tbh
*kyeugh*


----------



## Trebek

mewtini said:


> the mewtini-ing. the ... the mutiny ...


cant believe you didnt call it the mewtiny


----------



## kyeugh

mewtini said:


> likely story tbh
> *kyeugh*


this just makes me more powerful


----------



## mewtini

i believe in upholding the basic laws of the english language, including keeping my spelling flawless in every sentence that i ever-so-lovingly type. thank you very much.


----------



## mewtini

kyeugh said:


> this just makes me more powerful


fuck. *unvote*


----------



## Bluwiikoon

Someone opened my ice cream and had a scoop without asking me >:o Wrooooooaaarrrrr!!!!! (angy snom wiggling)


----------



## Trebek

mewtini said:


> i believe in upholding the basic laws of the english language, including keeping my spelling flawless in every sentence that i ever-so-lovingly type. thank you very much.


I*
English*
I*
Thank*

if mewt vigs me for this i accept it tbh


----------



## Trebek

Bluwiikoon said:


> Someone opened my ice cream and had a scoop without asking me >:o Wrooooooaaarrrrr!!!!! (angy snom wiggling)


*the ice cream thief*


----------



## mewtini

Trebek said:


> I*
> English*
> I*
> Thank*
> 
> if mewt vigs me for this i accept it tbh


ryan shut the fuck up.
*bomb trebe*- no i'm just jk


----------



## mewtini

mewtini said:


> just jk


UGHHHHH


----------



## Trebek

im sorry im sorry please dont leverage your powers against me


----------



## mewtini

huh? what powers? oh, are you referring to my unlimited daykills, nightkills, inspections, and redirects?


----------



## Bluwiikoon

If mewtini is mafia I will feel so


----------



## Herbe

hello don't mind me I'm just selling popcorn





price is only 1 reaction. take as much as you want. cheers <3


----------



## Trebek

mewtini said:


> huh? what powers? oh, are you referring to my unlimited daykills, nightkills, inspections, and redirects?


just dont tell them about your lynchproof


----------



## Ys_

Trebek said:


> the other issue i have with representatives is that it seems easy for mafia to weasel themselves into the process, maybe even electing a member of their own as the rep?


I don't disagree, but can you expand on this please? Why is that bad?
Also, we can have different representatives on different days.


Spoiler






mewtini said:


> Trebek said:
> 
> 
> 
> the other issue i have with representatives is that it seems easy for mafia to weasel themselves into the process, maybe even electing a member of their own as the rep?
> 
> 
> 
> yeah also this, esp since we inevitably kind of lose the spontaneity of EoD this way :p
Click to expand...




hmm all right. Also someone mentioned a mafia member maybe not voting at EoD on purpose. It would still look weird though, and cast more suspicion of them?

Also, to be sure:
@Seshas @IndigoEmmy does the popularity scale affect zoruas the same way as snoms? As in, does voting for snoms decrease their popularity and voting for zoruas increase it?
Also, do all votes affect popularity or only final ones?
Also also, do we get the vote count at the end of the day and is the vote count afected by popularity visible to us?
Sorry for so many questions lol.



Spoiler: Keldeo's questions for me






Keldeo said:


> Thank you, Ysabel, that’s cool!


You're welcome and thanks as well, Keldeo!


Keldeo said:


> Can I ask, do you prefer playing as town or non-town, and why?


I prefer playing as non-town. As third party, you get to watch all the mess with all you really have to do is blend in and help maintain the balance between town and mafia. As mafia, you get to brainstorm with your buddies and you already know who to trust, so it's easier in a way.


Keldeo said:


> What do you think are the most important traits for a town and for a mafia?


For town, I'd say being able to read people. Ignoring night actions, which can also be helpful, but not if you can't read people in day chat. Reading people and analyzing posts. And maybe preferably being more logical than emotional, heh. For mafia it's distracting and blending in. Being able to seem like you're helping without actually helping. Analyzing and making reads is also important, but not as much since you already have more info.



Keldeo said:


> How do you usually go about looking for mafia when you are town?


I have tried a few ways. On my first game as townie I tried making questions and speculating, though that brought some suspicion to me. Eh, I could go into more details with this, but I don't think that's too important right now. Other than that, maybe still ask questions and try to be helpful to fellow townies, like explaining a strategy. What I'm doing this game, at least for this phase, is taking notes about people's posts, and trying to decide who to trust.



Going to sleep now, hopefully I'll catch up tomorrow with the posts I missed xD see ya.


----------



## Trebek

Ysabel said:


> Trebek said:
> 
> 
> 
> the other issue i have with representatives is that it seems easy for mafia to weasel themselves into the process, maybe even electing a member of their own as the rep?
> 
> 
> 
> I don't disagree, but can you expand on this please? Why is that bad?
Click to expand...

my concern i think got more generally/succinctly explained by keldeo, which is just the overall issues with consensus voting not hitting mafia. i was mostly just thinking about mafia pushing a consensus towards a townie, and then since only the representative votes it becomes a lot harder to analyze who was pushing to kill town


----------



## mewtini

it might be sort of beating a dead horse at this point but if the options are "play it safe and preserve popularity levels" or "get organic votecount analysis/avoid consensus and pre-agreed upon wagons" i just don't see the relative merit in the first option. especially not d1


----------



## mewtini

granted i think this is also just kinda me grumbling about how, to me, keeping in convention seems easier/overall better than changing it up for the sake of a new mech that i just haven't really absorbed yet. and i am probably speaking too soon about this seeing as we aren't even in voting season yet really, but i guess there's not much else for me to latch onto yet (re-reading the thread would help but that's for tomorrow-me)

i guess like. even if it's a vote simulation sort of scenario i think it inherently loses a lot of the characteristics that make votecount analysis useful - such as wagon scattering in the last few minutes of EoD, etc - by nature of having to reach some agreement so that the appointed rep can place the vote. i get your point about being able to swap representatives around and i don't think i share the fear (that i think someone else mentioned?) about the rep just going absent/acting out of turn or whatever, but i think it's like ... it removes some freedom of movement that i personally find important in post-EoD analysis


----------



## mewtini

and as of rn, i think i'd sooner just give people with low popularity levels a pass on no-voting than anything else


----------



## mewtini

but yeah this is probably just a toMorrow discussion either way. but that is where my head's at for now


----------



## Bluwiikoon

Good news everyone! We resolved the ice cream situation, and they will trade me an unopened one :D

I'm very "no thoughts, head empty" at the moment. People have a lot of valid points about voting/no voting and how it contributes to mech analysis. Since popularity debuffs mostly come into play in vote ties, perhaps trying to swing a majority is better if we have some kind of idea about whom of 2+ people is more suspicious. 

Additionally for folks who want to preserve any night powers they have, it may be better for them to keep their own analysis of their current social rank a secret.  GMs said popularity values won't be public, so with that in mind someone who refuses to vote could be seen as an easy power role kill by mafia goons.


----------



## Keldeo

WIFOM (Wooloo In Front Of snoM)

@kyeugh, can you articulate what makes you like sande?

@Ysabel, thanks! Do you feel like there's anyone you want to trust right now? 



Eifie said:


> I am extremely pocketed by Bluwiikoon tbh


(idk there's no real reason, he could probably be mafia, I just look at his posts and feel like I can't ever vote him lol.)


----------



## Bluwiikoon

I won't let you down, Keldeo (and Eifie)!  Unless I make another joke-ruining typo!


----------



## Trebek

Bluwiikoon said:


> Good news everyone! We resolved the ice cream situation, and they will trade me an unopened one :D


perfect, now i can safely *unvote*

i also agree that people should try to avoid tipping off their roles in how they talk about/do things relative to the popularity mechanic: at this early in the game we should probably not outwardly worry about it too much (inwardly is a different story :o)


----------



## qenya

Keldeo said:


> I don't have a good grasp on eir playstyle but e read as fairly "TMI-y" as mafia in Cats (townreading people e knew to be town, sometimes based on very little)


I mean my assessment of my townplay is that it pretty much exclusively consists of townleaning people based on very little, so in one sense I'm flattered that you think I was behaving so much like that in Cats (2019)...

(NB: Since you seem to be asking everyone else about their mafia experience, I'll volunteer that I hadn't played for a couple of years before the TCoD revival, and before that I'd been having a run of rolling mafia. All things considered, I don't think I've played town since maybe 2015-16, not counting the first two phases of TVT. So it's thoroughly unsurprising to me that it seems to be coming off as a bit stilted.)



sanderidge said:


> kokorico said:
> 
> 
> 
> If you have a moment at some point, do you think you could have a quick pass over the last few pages and see if you notice any interactions that jump out to you as possibly w/w?
> 
> 
> 
> i don't find anything iffy in pages 1-8 :'D it doesn't seem like people are really interacting with each other that much before you posted that? is there something i'm supposed to be picking up on...
Click to expand...

No, that's great! Thanks for getting back to me.

@Keldeo, the reason I asked this question was that sanderidge and Bluwiikoon were at the bottom of my (very loosely ordered and sketchy!) readlist, and they did have an interaction on the early pages (#66) - albeit not one I'd personally read anything much into. I wondered if, in the scenario where they _were_ w/w, she might panic thinking she'd given something away. She didn't, though, and also since then she's made more posts I kind of like, in particular the mech speculation at the top of #187 and her slightly emotional uncertainty in #194. So she's no longer floating so far down for me. And I guess this counts as a small point in favour of Blu too, in a strict Bayesian sense.

A few more questions for people whenever it's convenient:

@M Plus 7 - Nice to see you earlier! Do you have any thoughts on the game so far? What do you think your general strategy is going to be?

@Superjolt - Earlier you said you agreed about trying not to let popularity influence our vote. But do you have any opinion specifically on the idea of choosing a town representative?

@Ysabel - If you were mafia, what do you think you would be trying to accomplish toDay? For example, who do you think you would be picking out as the best candidate for a mislynch?


----------



## Zori

_Votecount (#245):_
*Seshas* | 1 | Mist1422 (#19)



Spoiler: Vote History



mewtini votes Seshas [->1] (#14)
*Mist1422 votes Seshas [->2] (#19)*
mewtini votes Seshas -> Eifie [1->1] (#63)
Trebek votes Stealth Rock [->1] (#111)
Trebek votes Stealth Rock -> mewtini [0->1] (#216)
Trebek unvotes mewtini [0->] (#217)
mewtini votes Eifie -> kyeugh [0->1] (#219)
_mewtini unvotes kyeugh [0->] (#223)_
Trebek votes Seshas [->2] (#226)
_Trebek unvotes Seshas [1->] (#243)_





Ysabel said:


> @Seshas @IndigoEmmy does the popularity scale affect zoruas the same way as snoms? As in, does voting for snoms decrease their popularity and voting for zoruas increase it?
> Also, do all votes affect popularity or only final ones?
> Also also, do we get the vote count at the end of the day and is the vote count afected by popularity visible to us?


1. Popularity does affect Mafia and any 3rd party roles in the same way as Town-aligned Snoms. Voting for Town decreases popularity and voting for Mafia increases popularity regardless of your alignment.

2. Only final votes on the top wagon count:

*A* | 2 | *B*, *C
C* | 1 | *D*

In this scenario, A would be voted out, and B and C's popularity would increase by 1. D's popularity would be unaffected.

3. The votecount affected by popularity is not visible, but you will know who is voted out at the end of each day.


----------



## Novae

Does voting for potential third parties affect popularity?


----------



## Zori

Mist1422 said:


> Does voting for potential third parties affect popularity?


Voting out a 3rd party does not by default cause any change in popularity.


----------



## mewtini

b-by default


----------



## IndigoClaudia

Hi everyone! Snommod here to say 2 things

*Snommod Message:* 

I'm making a minor change to the rules if you use a representative.
The representative loses 2 popularity instead of everyone losing one to make it more balanced.

Also, as far as I know, the crossed out things were completely random, so i don't think there is a reason to speculate about it. But even if it wasn't random somehow, don't speculate about it anyway. Also snom with legs has scarred me for life. 

Also @Bluwiikoon now i want ice cream.


----------



## mewtini

ok i think we should not use a rep then seeing as finding people willing to lose 2 popularity would be uh. PR indicative to say the least


----------



## IndigoClaudia

Also i just want to say that the zoruas are evil because they want to eat the snoms so they can claim the area under the bridge for their own! They'll make a zorua town! how nefarious!


----------



## IndigoClaudia

mewtini said:


> ok i think we should not use a rep then seeing as finding people willing to lose 2 popularity would be uh...


I recommend bribing them with some snow to eat.


----------



## OliTheGeek

.... hi?


----------



## OliTheGeek

How does this all work? I’ve never played mafia before...


----------



## Zori

IndigoEmmy said:


> *Snommod Message:*
> 
> I'm making a minor change to the rules if you use a representative.
> The representative loses 2 popularity instead of everyone losing one to make it more balanced.


*Moderator Message: The line isn't strict, so you should probably be fine unless there's like exactly 1 person voting at EoD*


----------



## IndigoClaudia

*Moderator message: Yep.*


----------



## IndigoClaudia

*Moderator Message: *Also, hi @JuliaTheSeaTurtleQueen howzit been and do you need any help with mafia, seeing as this is your first game?


----------



## kyeugh

*Moderator Message: The game is over.  Kyeugh has won.*


----------



## IndigoClaudia

JuliaTheSeaTurtleQueen said:


> How does this all work? I’ve never played mafia before...


Just vote for shady people. *In bold* or kill people if you are mafia! It's best not to reveal power roles or being mafia. Or you run the risk of becoming a target


----------



## mewtini

JuliaTheSeaTurtleQueen said:


> How does this all work? I’ve never played mafia before...


i would check out this thread! you can kind of skim a lot of it but the basic gameflow is there


----------



## IndigoClaudia

kyeugh said:


> *Moderator Message: The game is over.  Kyeugh has won.*


*Moderator Message Declined*


----------



## Eifie

*Moderator message*:

~*~*~ New mechanic added! ~*~*~

Every time Eifie posts in the game thread, she gains +10 to Popularity and +5 to Power.

~*~ Back to your regularly scheduled Snomafia... ~*~*~​


----------



## IndigoClaudia

*^ This is true*


----------



## IndigoClaudia

lol it's kinda funny how @JuliaTheSeaTurtleQueen just is here and than vanishes almost the second she appears.


----------



## IndigoClaudia

Snomanyway. If anyone needs me, ping me, but i need to eat some bekfast. Goodbye.


----------



## kyeugh

mfw the gms post


----------



## Zori

JuliaTheSeaTurtleQueen said:


> How does this all work? I’ve never played mafia before...


*Mafia Crash Course:*
There are 13 players in the game, and most of them are aligned with the Town. However, a handful (usually around 1/4) are aligned with the Mafia. These players know who eachother are, and are trying to kill all of the Town members. The Town members don't know who eachother are, but are trying to kill the Mafia players. However, they have the numerical advantage, so they need to guess which people are on their team.

So how do people die? There are 2 ways: Each Day, everyone votes on a person to kill. This is Town's main method of killing the Mafia, because although the Mafia have some control over who dies, if the Town members can learn or guess who is on their team, they can always vote a Mafia out, until there are more Mafia members than Town members (in which case the game usually ends immediately). 
Each Night, the Mafia secretly choose a person to kill. This is the Mafia's main method of getting rid of Town players that are finding eachother too well, or are stopping them from manipulating the voting as effectively.

The base game ends when all Mafia members are dead, or when all Town members are dead.

Added on to this, there are power roles, which can do things in the night to skew the odds in favor of their alignment. One common example of this is the Town Cop, which can investigate someone each night to see what team they're on.


----------



## IndigoClaudia

*Seshas *is acting suspicious 

my vote counts for x20 votes.

*Unvote*


----------



## kyeugh

Keldeo said:


> @kyeugh, can you articulate what makes you like sande?


 i think part of it is just that they sound towny and i don't have any meta on them, so i'm kind of just accepting that feeling at face value.  i think their #187 feels genuinely like town trying to get their footing on the game, and their reactions feel real to me—in particular, i like the bit about "doesn't keldeo's question seem loaded!?" i don't think mafia goes for that in that way.


----------



## Novae

*Player Message: *mods pls stop posting


----------



## mewtini

seconding

also i will probably not be around for a few hours but i'll probably return with some sort of wallreading. i kind of barely processed things yesterday lmfao


----------



## Ys_

Ok, nevermind about the rep thing then. We could use the idea at some point but I think I agree that it's not important right now. And good to know it doesn't affect every vote. And yeah, I see your point about it losing spontaneity, Mewt.



mewtini said:


> i think this is going to be another game of me getting pocketed by people who sound cute inthread and then getting fucked over tbh. i feel it in my bones.


LOL. Try not to be. At least not just bc they sound cute.. Or just keep it in mind


Keldeo said:


> @Ysabel, thanks! Do you feel like there's anyone you want to trust right now?


Well, there's you, Mewtini, Trebek, Kyeugh and possibly Blu and Koko.


kokorico said:


> @Ysabel - If you were mafia, what do you think you would be trying to accomplish toDay? For example, who do you think you would be picking out as the best candidate for a mislynch?


Maybe I'd try speculating things that are not super important? Or try to gain people's trust by supporting their points? Tbh I try to play as towny as possible when but without being super helpful.

BTW Koko and keldeo, you don't have to answer right now but what's the point of these qs? Specifically the one about what I do as town and what I would do as maf? Not to discredit them, but I could be lying or withholding information.


----------



## mewtini

Ysabel said:


> LOL. Try not to be. At least not just bc they sound cute.. Or just keep it in mind


;;



Ysabel said:


> Well, there's you, Mewtini, Trebek, Kyeugh and possibly Blu and Koko.


why these people?


----------



## sanderidge

_sandsnom yawns. it seems like it didn't sleep too well last night.
-----_
me yesterday: i won't be able to make reads by tomorrow
skylar: i like sande's posting
me today: i like skylar's posting too. time to make a reads list

JOKES AND IRONY ASIDE i am mostly feeling this way because i'm now mostly of the opinion that Using Reps is Bad Idea, and i like how skylar and mewtini and keldeo brought up Reasonable Seeming points against it. maybe i'm just pocketed by anyone making any sense to me. i'm also starting to feel (somewhat) Good Feels about koko because of the small test they did about w/w interactions but again i think this is because anyone trying to do Solve Things And Figure Out is currently making my brain go "trust them!!!" i'm not getting the same solvy Trust Them feelings from ysabel, even though she was the one who proposed the rep idea that i liked for a while. maybe because i'm currently not thinking using reps is a good idea lmao.

i don't really have any feels on mist, and i actually curiously do not have the same Inherent Townlean on blu that everyone else seems to have (although i do have sympathy about Ice Cream Thief!). i feel like a scumchat _might _let one of their own into the thread to go "hey uh how do you play mafia", especially since it feels like to me that a lot of people in this game are reading blu as town for tone reasons, so i'm not really feeling that not knowing stuff is clearing julia. 

i don't remember who else is in the game and i'm too lazy to go look but the fact that i don't remember just means they're all in the I Don't Have Feels section 

re: using reps, i mentioned above that i don't think it's a good idea anymore, especially given the changes to the rep thing made today - and also since it's only votes on the final wagon that count for changes in popularity, which makes me a lot less scared about a bunch of people losing abilities all at once. so now i'm thinking about what we're going to do today :'D people have mentioned we shouldn't abstain today, so i guess that sounds like we should go for something...?


----------



## Ys_

Ysabel said:


> Tbh I try to play as towny as possible but without being super helpful


when I'm non-town (which has only been two games so not a lot of experience) but this strategy helped me seem helpful, gain credibility and blend in. Though admittedly this was a bit counterproductive for my team in my first game in that I unnecessarily helped a towny lol.

Aight, read-list time.
*Blu*


Bluwiikoon said:


> I feel like the flavor text indicates some kind of power role that can drag people  I'd assume such a thing would be a wolf power, so maybe for now we can assume kyeugh is innocent? Just the target of mean gossip LOL


hmm fair point. Yes, maf could have targetted Kyeugh.
I like this post and I liked Blu bringing it up. Maybe wolves didn't realize or weren't sure this would come up in the flavor text, but it doesn't seem like something a wolf would feel the need to point out. In general, Blu has seemed genuine but hasn't contributed much, so I give him slight townlean. He suggested abstaining at the beginning of day. Not super AI but something to note.

*mewtini*
Gives me good, helpful vibes. I noted posts #99 posting your thought against Blu's suggestion to abstain and #106 which speculates about the number of mafias v towns. Again, I don't see a wolf feeling the need to speculate on this. Overall, you have been giving good reasoning for your thoughts. I'm thinking about your replies to my idea of choosing a rep, which to me sound genuine and make sense.

*Keldeo*
Has been questioning people. I haven't noted anything specific, but his posts have good quality to them plus he brings good points. He questioned Koko's read on him, which maybe a wolf wouldn't do, just sort of follow along. He's also been questioning everyone. I would like to see if he's reached any conclusions from his questions, though.
Have you, Keldeo? You don't have to answer right now, but maybe at the end of toDay? (I really don't know why you guys are capitalizing the D btw, but I'm assuming it's to differentiate in-game days from real days?)

*something to note from Town!me is I try to question everyone, esp people who haven't been questioned much, since this was a mistake I made in another game-- to trust someone implicitly without really questioning them.

*Trebek/Kyeugh*
For Trebek it's a mix of tone plus having good arguments/reasons, and for Kyeugh it's a mix of tone plus possibly the meta/flavor thing about getting the negative popularity possibly meaning she was targetted by mafia AKA not mafia herself.



Trebek said:


> i think i’m in agreement with mewt here mostly? like, i disagree with the idea on a pragmatic level but i don’t disagree with the mindset that comes up with that idea, if that makes any sense


Also this post from Trebek gave me good vibes and I think it's fair. He was talking about the rep idea btw.

*Kokoriko*
For Koko it's eir post analyzing Blu and Keldeo which seemed reasonable and genuine to me. But I haven't seen em as being super helpful either (still unsure about eir question at me, which could superficially mean e is following Keldeo's lead and trying to seem helpful, but it could also mean e is trying to help. (sorry if I mess up on pronouns btw..)

*Sanderidge*
In #187 Sanderidge feels genuine and really helpful from someone who seems shy to post. I agree with Keldeo's advice. Don't feel bad about making mistakes, we all make them. Just try your best. And the multiquote tool is very helpful. :)

So order of townvibe for me is
Keldeo
Mewt
Trebek - Kyeugh
Sanderidge - Blu - Koko

I will try to iso the rest later.


----------



## Bluwiikoon

Hmmmm EOD isn't far away so I guess we should start a wagon?  I got no leads right now so all I can really vibe with is voting out lurky snoms


----------



## kyeugh

fwiw i don't think it's impossible that the depopularizerifinator role is town.  sort of like a powered down vig if you think about it


----------



## mewtini

oh what the fuck EoD is today??


----------



## Bluwiikoon

If everyone throws a dart at a board with player names, one of us is probably bound to hit a mafia!


----------



## Bluwiikoon

Oh wait oh fuck this isn't 48 hours!!!

My bad omg


----------



## mewtini

omg it's okay i was just so immediately like :O


----------



## Bluwiikoon

ADHD brain: It has been... TEN hours!!!
Actual time passage: Ten minutes


----------



## Ys_

Mist hasn't contributed very much btw, even though they have posted a few times. Most of their posts have been jokey or have only talked about mechanics. The only helpful post they have made was the one suggesting about ignoring popularity. Which ehh...

@Mist1422 what are your reads on people btw? Has anything jumped out to you?


----------



## Bluwiikoon

I like Ysabel because her profile pic is a cool wolf


----------



## mewtini

Ysabel said:


> (I really don't know why you guys are capitalizing the D btw, but I'm assuming it's to differentiate in-game days from real days?)


(this is indeed why!)


----------



## Trebek

i guess a town popularity down-inator could exist, but i feel like it’s more likely to be a mafia role. targeting kyeugh could be a galaxy brain w/w move, but i’m inclined to townlean kyeugh for now.


----------



## Novae

ngl

I haven’t had the time to read that closely into stuff because Work and I work better D2+ anyway

But I’ll scan over stuff soon


----------



## qenya

Ysabel said:


> BTW Koko and keldeo, you don't have to answer right now but what's the point of these qs? Specifically the one about what I do as town and what I would do as maf? Not to discredit them, but I could be lying or withholding information.


In general, I ask questions either for the obvious reason (because I want to know the answer) or to try to provoke a response that's alignment-indicative in some way. I expect Keldeo's attitude is very similar.

The question about what you think the mafia ought to be doing was mostly of the latter type, but I didn't have anything particular in mind; I was basically just fishing to see if you said anything revealing, because I don't have any real read on you yet despite your having posted a fair amount. (I liked your confusion earlier when you were trying to pin down how the popularity mechanics worked, but I don't think it would have been terribly difficult to fake.) Unfortunately, it wasn't particularly successful in that regard, but that's nothing to worry about - it's only D1.

I agree with your point on Mist, by the way: they're another person who's sitting in my category of "present but an unknown quantity". For what it's worth, they're not the only person who's been complaining about having a lack of useful information; for example, Trebek did the same thing here. Mist was also the first person to point out that sanderidge and Superjolt were highlighted in the player list, although I can see that the mafia would be curious about that too, if it really was just a mistake by the GM. Their #60 popped out to me as being a bit bizarre but I can't really articulate why.


----------



## qenya

Other misc thoughts:

Now that JuliaTheSeaTurtleQueen has checked in, however briefly, the only person we're waiting for is Mr. Ultracool, who I think tends to be lurky regardless of his alignment. Do we want to ping him for a response toDay, or leave him alone for now?
Agree that we should definitely just vote as normal, given the rule change. I also find it mildly amusing that Seshas is apparently just running around slapping patches on her ruleset as we poke holes in it.


----------



## Superjolt

hello! Will definitely be getting to this Soon(tm). I slept for a few hours last night and then I woke up and couldn’t get back to sleep so I’m kind of in “ugh” mode today but gonna try to focus 

saw a ping from koko, will get to that !

While I’m here and thinking about it: where are people’s heads at on skylar rn? Just to see thoughts on this when I read up


----------



## qenya

Superjolt said:


> where are people’s heads at on skylar rn?


hopelessly pocketed by her RP tbqh


----------



## sanderidge

Superjolt said:


> While I’m here and thinking about it: where are people’s heads at on skylar rn? Just to see thoughts on this when I read up


extremely pocketed by snom legs art 
jokes aside, i also liked how she pointed out stuff about not needing to worry about popularity mechanics too much yet, although that might just be me latching onto people who seem like they know what they're doing / seem to be doing Solvy Things


----------



## mewtini

ok i have a bit of time now, let's see how much reading-liveblogging i get through in the next 45 minutes .....


Spoiler: long af






Keldeo said:


> I won't be doing hypocop, because without role reveals, we get the drawbacks (it can tell the mafia who isn't the cop) without much of the benefits. I don't actually know whether roles are revealed upon death, but I'm assuming they are not.


given how cats went (ie no one else ever objected to hypocopping/thought of this drawback) i think it was maybe unnecessary for w!keldeo to have said this here, though it's probably not especially AI

- i'm not sure what to make of blu claiming so early in post 50, though he was one of the first people (along with koko) to start talking about mech; his #73 feels pretty towny to me, and though i think i saw some complaints earlier about him proposing abstention, i'm more inclined to townread it than not given that his tone is pretty cats-y. i still think it's natural to be puzzling out ways around novel mechanics, and in retrospect i like 103 (worrying about town debuffing) even if i ultimately disagree with the sentiment itself


Bluwiikoon said:


> I feel like the flavor text indicates some kind of power role that can drag people  I'd assume such a thing would be a wolf power, so maybe for now we can assume kyeugh is innocent? Just the target of mean gossip LOL


- i am kind of obsessed with skylar's legsnom and it feels like the fuckery that she did as town last game
- fsr i like that some people (skylar/koko) drew attention to the strikethrough and people's surrounding reactions (maybe i'd feel weird if i thought it was like, meant to be distracting spec, but i don't think that's how i read most of this)


Bluwiikoon said:


> Is there a mafia role that uhhh traps/yeets anyone who targets you at night?


i am still curious about why this was asked! maybe i'm just not following something tho
- ysabel initially proposing The Plan in 134 gave me similar feelings as blu proposing abstention, i think? natural to wonder about novel mech, etc, etc. i'm not sure i feel as actively good about her other posting thus far about the plan (mostly that she initially was putting it forth as 'just a thought' but later seemed to be pushing for it a bit? like in 234 and beyond) but i definitely don't feel bad
- now that i'm again rereading koko's 150, i still do feel sort of weird about the keldeo read (some of my prior agreement was that i think e was right about keldeo's wolfmeta; most of my turnaround is that i see that, by nature, that meta wouldn't have made itself apparent on d1) but i think i see skylar's point about it being too early to tell (and koko talking about it in 163 feels fair enough). i kind of disagree with what e said about blu here though, i think blu's been contributing at a similar level as he was in cats, and the blupost koko referenced in 163 feels kind of irrelevant to me
- koko asking sande that question about possible w/w interactions and later explaining the rationale for doing so feels vaguely good though
- i still think trebek's concerns about ysabel's voting system feel vaguely good as well
- not much to say on mist or jolt's posting tbh.
- i like sande's tone/thinking out loud process throughout 187 ("does that question keldeo asked sound really loaded" stood out to me positively also), her mech curiosity, and her thought process on the rep plan thing i think ... i don't have meta on her but it read sincere for now
- blu reiterating that PRs should stay quiet about their popularity tracking feels kind of similar to some of the shepherding he did during cats. i guess this isn't really AI in and of itself but
- this is maybe naive but i like julia's entrance in 253 ;; 
also this is maybe illegal but i think it's pretty doubtful that she's lying/making up being new to mafia, seeing as emmy literally confirmed such in 257.
- i started wondering how i felt about ysabel's tone in places but i like 275 (her read wall)


tl;dr i kind of like how everyone sounds and i am sort of nervous for EoD coming up tbh. i gut-like koko and keldeo's like ... town shepherding/questioning but i'm afraid of keldeo and idrk koko's town meta but i'll vibe for now esp since e's volunteered independent thoughts pretty freely. also i didn't really take enough notes as i went through on skylar's posting specifically, oops, kinda because i think the memery is the most pervasive thing and not much else from her jumped out at me. but i think i gut townread her too for similar reasons to cats (general tone, and her comments about mech and speculating about The Diss Track role)

also agree that mist is kind of a ? atm but eh. i don't really have a great grasp of mist's meta either seeing as tvt was uh, weird, and that i inadvertently scumread their towngame in cats >:

@kokorico i'm curious what you think of ysabel at this point, especially wrt her voting idea!


----------



## mewtini

at this point ultracool's the only noposter right?


----------



## mewtini

@Mr. Ultracool hi! 
oh wait also @M Plus 7 interested in hearing what you think of things as well


----------



## kyeugh

mewtini said:


> given how cats went (ie no one else ever objected to hypocopping/thought of this drawback) i think it was maybe unnecessary for w!keldeo to have said this here, though it's probably not especially AI)


 i am reading this as more towny than not tbh.


----------



## mewtini

sorry if that wasn't clear, i was saying that i was also townleaning that


----------



## kyeugh

i know!  i am just agreeing.  it's probably the main thing informing my keldeo read atm.


----------



## mewtini

Spoiler: vague list, kiiind of ordered?



_mewtini:_
mewtini!

_townreading because they sound cute:_
sande, blu, julia

_vibing:_
skylar, trebek, keldeo, ysabel, koko

_???:_
mist, jolt, mp7, ultracool


----------



## mewtini

awkward moment when my list is pretty much split by "people who post" vs "people who don't post"


----------



## Bluwiikoon

Mewtini rereading everything and reacting is really powerful! I'm very inclined to townread because it feels solvy to me 

Even if kyeugh was maf I think leg snom deserves to win. Tbh she feels similar to Cats and I do feel like the diss track would be a fiendish Zorua role meant to discredit her >:o AND kyeugh deserves justice after scumreading rari in cats and nobody believing her (rip)


----------



## mewtini

Bluwiikoon said:


> AND kyeugh deserves justice after scumreading rari in cats and nobody believing her (rip)


;_________;


rari_teh said:


> it’s like. c’mon. one-shot necromancer who was roleblocked and denied another shot? who would ever believe that omg worst fakeclaim ever


----------



## mewtini

Bluwiikoon said:


> Tbh she feels similar to Cats and I do feel like the diss track would be a fiendish Zorua role meant to discredit her


yeah i agree. though i also think it's somewhat possible that the role is town, tbh, as she said. either way i think she sounds pretty much just like cats (or as much as she can while being in a different game :p )


----------



## mewtini

will be interesting to see what the role does next tbh


----------



## Trebek

mewtini said:


> will be interesting to see what the role does next tbh


yeah, i want to wait to see whether or not the depopularity-izer [redacted bc otherwise theyll be biased by knowing what im looking for]


----------



## qenya

mewtini said:


> @kokorico i'm curious what you think of ysabel at this point, especially wrt her voting idea!


Not sure what else I can say about her that I didn't in my previous post, tbh. Her voting idea added to the conversation, yeah, but I didn't see it as particularly AI? After all, the mafia don't want to have their popularity lowered either. Put it this way, I don't have anything on her higher than a C on my read-confidence scale.

Aside from that I think the only non-inactives I haven't said anything about yet are you and kyeugh, both of whom I haven't tried to look at in any particular detail yet. Will get on that tomorrow.


----------



## Novae

a small snippet of what I'm listening to rn


----------



## mewtini

kokorico said:


> Not sure what else I can say about her that I didn't in my previous post, tbh. Her voting idea added to the conversation, yeah, but I didn't see it as particularly AI? After all, the mafia don't want to have their popularity lowered either. Put it this way, I don't have anything on her higher than a C on my read-confidence scale.


sorry tbh! i think i'd started writing my post before seeing yours, and i didn't go back/see it afterward :p thanks!
(i was mostly just asking to see if it lined up with you feeling weird about blu talking abstention)


----------



## Novae

I'll be back with Takes:tm: shortly most likely


----------



## qenya

mewtini said:


> (i was mostly just asking to see if it lined up with you feeling weird about blu talking abstention)


Wait up, on rereading I don't think I catch your meaning here? AFAICT Ysabel didn't advocate abstaining. If anything, it was the opposite - she tried to come up with a way to ensure there _was_ a lynch even if people wanted to avoid officially voting.


----------



## qenya

kokorico said:


> Wait up, on rereading I don't think I catch your meaning here? AFAICT Ysabel didn't advocate abstaining. If anything, it was the opposite - she tried to come up with a way to ensure there _was_ a lynch even if people wanted to avoid officially voting.


er, *yeet. sorry im sorry im trying to remove it


----------



## mewtini

kokorico said:


> Wait up, on rereading I don't think I catch your meaning here? AFAICT Ysabel didn't advocate abstaining. If anything, it was the opposite - she tried to come up with a way to ensure there _was_ a lynch even if people wanted to avoid officially voting.


it was more that i was connecting "people proposing somehow unconventional strategies" than anything else, not that ysabel advocated for abstaining specifically. it's a tenuous connection but that's why i associated them


----------



## mewtini

now that i type it out i guess it wasn't actually that related lol.


----------



## mewtini

mewtini said:


> "people proposing somehow unconventional strategies"


er, *around the popularity mechanic, specifically


----------



## qenya

Oh I see. I wasn't thinking anywhere near that deeply when I mentioned Blu's pro-abstention post, I was just tossing it out there since I was mentioning his post record anyway and it seems to be a truism that abstention rarely benefits town. In fact I didn't even bother to note it down by his entry on my spreadsheet.


----------



## mewtini

kokorico said:


> it seems to be a truism that abstention rarely benefits town


oh yeah, i agree. i just get wary of assuming that people only mention abstention as an anti-town tactic, esp in this setup (and also post-cats where there was some genuine town disagreement about what was best on d1) ... even if i'm pretty much always pro-d1 lynch, personally


----------



## Keldeo

*Vote Superjolt*. I think we should start building wagons if we're going to be voting normally. I know he's got stuff going on, but I think pressuring him is more productive than pressuring either of the two inactive people at the bottom of my POE. 

I'm not townreading [Mr. Ultracool, Superjolt, MP7] + slightly higher tier of [Mist, Julia, Trebek?, Ysabel?]. Not really sure how good I feel about my reads, and endgame sneaks up fast in a smaller game, but ehh good enough for now I guess. If you think I should take someone out or put someone into my voting pool, please talk to me about why!

I don't really want to vote kokorico any more, though to be clear, that's not really a townread - just a "sure, not today" read.

I'll make a more thorough post / respond to things later, sorry.


----------



## mewtini

i think i'm missing something, i didn't realize you were considering voting koko earlier


----------



## Ys_

Superjolt said:


> Note to self to take another look at koko's posts when I'm not tired (just to read them with a clear head), also I feel like the Keldeo read was a little quick maybe


Did you get to take a look at Koko's posts? 


sanderidge said:


> i feel like a scumchat _might _let one of their own into the thread to go "hey uh how do you play mafia", especially since it feels like to me that a lot of people in this game are reading blu as town for tone reasons, so i'm not really feeling that not knowing stuff is clearing julia.


Can you expand on this, please? And how do reads on Blu relate to reads on Julia?


Superjolt said:


> While I’m here and thinking about it: where are people’s heads at on skylar rn? Just to see thoughts on this when I read up


Why? Was there something about her posts or interactions that caught your attention?
I already made my reads on her.

*Things to note:*
my wall was in reply to your question, Mewt, just so it's clear. When you asked why I chose those specific people.
After isoing, Blu went slightly up on my townlean list.



Spoiler: Koko's 288






kokorico said:


> Ysabel said:
> 
> 
> 
> BTW Koko and keldeo, you don't have to answer right now but what's the point of these qs? Specifically the one about what I do as town and what I would do as maf? Not to discredit them, but I could be lying or withholding information.
> 
> 
> 
> In general, I ask questions either for the obvious reason (because I want to know the answer) or to try to provoke a response that's alignment-indicative in some way. I expect Keldeo's attitude is very similar.
> 
> The question about what you think the mafia ought to be doing was mostly of the latter type, but I didn't have anything particular in mind; I was basically just fishing to see if you said anything revealing, because I don't have any real read on you yet despite your having posted a fair amount. (I liked your confusion earlier when you were trying to pin down how the popularity mechanics worked, but I don't think it would have been terribly difficult to fake.) Unfortunately, it wasn't particularly successful in that regard, but that's nothing to worry about - it's only D1.
> 
> Fair enough. Ask away, I'll try to answer any question as transparently as I can. I just think that meta questions like those two are not very good for AI answers, since it wouldn't relate to this specific game. Especially since no one here has played with me before, so they can't really deny or corroborate (though even then a player's meta can change). Which is why I tried to explain what my current town game consisted of to Keldeo.
> 
> I agree with your point on Mist, by the way: they're another person who's sitting in my category of "present but an unknown quantity". For what it's worth, they're not the only person who's been complaining about having a lack of useful information; for example, Trebek did the same thing here.
> 
> Wait.. I think you posted an unrelated quote? To clarify, do you mean I'm not the only person who has pointed out that Mist hasn't contributed too much?
> 
> Mist was also the first person to point out that sanderidge and Superjolt were highlighted in the player list, although I can see that the mafia would be curious about that too, if it really was just a mistake by the GM.
> 
> Noted. I didn't really gave much thought to the mistake when it was presented. (not speculating, though, because rules xD)
> 
> Their #60 popped out to me as being a bit bizarre but I can't really articulate why.
> Could you try? :P Even if it doesn't make complete sense?
Click to expand...


----------



## Keldeo

kokorico said:


> my spreadsheet.


you got me


----------



## mewtini

Ysabel said:


> my wall was in reply to your question, Mewt, just so it's clear. When you asked why I chose those specific people.


oh yeah, i knew! ty!


Keldeo said:


> kokorico said:
> 
> 
> 
> my spreadsheet.
> 
> 
> 
> you got me
Click to expand...

band name: Keldeo and the Seer Cover Keldeo and the Spreadsheets


----------



## Zori

_Votecount (#322):_
*Superjolt* | 1 | Keldeo (#317)
Seshas | 1 | Mist1422 (#19)



Spoiler: Vote History



mewtini votes Seshas [->1] (#14)
*Mist1422 votes Seshas [->2] (#19)*
mewtini votes Seshas -> Eifie [1->1] (#63)
Trebek votes Stealth Rock [->1] (#111)
Trebek votes Stealth Rock -> mewtini [0->1] (#216)
Trebek unvotes mewtini [0->] (#217)
mewtini votes Eifie -> kyeugh [0->1] (#219)
_mewtini unvotes kyeugh [0->] (#223)_
Trebek votes Seshas [->2] (#226)
_Trebek unvotes Seshas [1->] (#243)_
*Keldeo votes Superjolt [->1] (#317)*


----------



## qenya

Keldeo said:


> If you think I should take someone out or put someone into my voting pool, please talk to me about why!


More or less agree with your tiers (Blu excepted), but I'm feeling a bit more positive about Trebek. What do you make of his post here, where he pointed out that mafia might well be wagon-dancing to avoid getting hit by the popularity mechanic? (I thought I remembered you saying something about it already, but I can't find it in your ISO, so apologies if you've already addressed it.)


----------



## mewtini

Keldeo said:


> If you think I should take someone out or put someone into my voting pool, please talk to me about why!


agree with your lower tier. for the other one i think i wouldn't lynch trebek today and maybe i'm just softhearted today but i just think julia's entrance was so pure (heavily dependent on whatever she says next), likely because i don't think the "scumteam telling a wolf to go ask the thread how to play the game" narrative happens all that often


----------



## mewtini

i guess it doesn't really matter since it doesn't sound like that second list is actually your voting pool anyway though? but i prooobably wouldn't vote either of those two toDay


----------



## qenya

Ysabel said:


> Fair enough. Ask away, I'll try to answer any question as transparently as I can. I just think that meta questions like those two are not very good for AI answers, since it wouldn't relate to this specific game. Especially since no one here has played with me before, so they can't really deny or corroborate (though even then a player's meta can change). Which is why I tried to explain what my current town game consisted of to Keldeo.


That's fair! I'm sorry, I'm realising now that I might not have got my question across very well - I was actually more asking if you had any idea how wolf!you might play _this_ game in particular. Which is what I was trying to get at with the example of "people who you think you might try to mislynch".

And do feel free to tell me to fuck off at any point if you think I'm just wasting time. It's a valid opinion.



Ysabel said:


> Wait.. I think you posted an unrelated quote? To clarify, do you mean I'm not the only person who has pointed out that Mist hasn't contributed too much?


No, no, I meant that _Mist_ isn't the only person who's been mentioning their _own_ lack of contributions. In the quote I posted, Trebek does the same thing. sanderidge said something similar in #194, too, albeit in a slightly different context. In general, I think not having anything much to go on on D1 isn't really alignment-indicative, especially when there weren't any N0 kills.

To be clear, I do share your doubts about Mist and would like to see more from them to allay my concerns, I'm just not at the point of actually scumleaning them yet.



Ysabel said:


> Could you try [to explain why #60 seemed bizarre]? :P Even if it doesn't make complete sense?


Uhhhhr, maybe? The more I think about it the less confident I am in it, but it kind of feels like a bit of an attempt to get people thinking about them as town? Like, presumably they realise nobody else has reason to consider them conftown, so treating it as a given (even for a joke) comes off as a bit disingenuous. But then again I did pretty much exactly the same thing at the start of #244, so perhaps I'm being way, way too cynical.

(Please don't base anything important on this. It's my second weakest data point, in a list of thirty-odd that undoubtedly follow Sturgeon's law, behind only "I happened to notice sanderidge's activity indicator this morning and it said she was in a PM".)


----------



## qenya

mewtini said:


> i don't think the "scumteam telling a wolf to go ask the thread how to play the game" narrative happens all that often


in fairness the naïveté act worked pretty well for me in TVT, albeit not at the instruction of scumchat,


----------



## qenya

kokorico said:


> mewtini said:
> 
> 
> 
> i don't think the "scumteam telling a wolf to go ask the thread how to play the game" narrative happens all that often
> 
> 
> 
> in fairness the naïveté act worked pretty well for me in TVT, albeit not at the instruction of scumchat,
Click to expand...

(but I don't think this is what Julia is doing, to be clear)


----------



## Novae

*unvote *


----------



## qenya

Seshas said:


> mewtini votes Seshas [->1] (#14)
> *Mist1422 votes Seshas [->2] (#19)*
> mewtini votes Seshas -> Eifie [1->1] (#63)
> Trebek votes Stealth Rock [->1] (#111)
> Trebek votes Stealth Rock -> mewtini [0->1] (#216)
> Trebek unvotes mewtini [0->] (#217)
> mewtini votes Eifie -> kyeugh [0->1] (#219)
> _mewtini unvotes kyeugh [0->] (#223)_
> Trebek votes Seshas [->2] (#226)
> _Trebek unvotes Seshas [1->] (#243)_
> *Keldeo votes Superjolt [->1] (#317)*


Hey Seshas, I get that the bold entries are active votes, but is there any meaning to the italicised ones?


----------



## kyeugh

mewtini said:


> i just think julia's entrance was so pure (heavily dependent on whatever she says next), likely because i don't think the "scumteam telling a wolf to go ask the thread how to play the game" narrative happens all that often


 i don’t think the scumteam has to factor into it. if julia is scum, she probably just posted that without consulting her teammates.


----------



## mewtini

that is fair tbh! i just don't want to vote her because of it


----------



## kyeugh

kokorico said:


> Seshas said:
> 
> 
> 
> mewtini votes Seshas [->1] (#14)
> *Mist1422 votes Seshas [->2] (#19)*
> mewtini votes Seshas -> Eifie [1->1] (#63)
> Trebek votes Stealth Rock [->1] (#111)
> Trebek votes Stealth Rock -> mewtini [0->1] (#216)
> Trebek unvotes mewtini [0->] (#217)
> mewtini votes Eifie -> kyeugh [0->1] (#219)
> _mewtini unvotes kyeugh [0->] (#223)_
> Trebek votes Seshas [->2] (#226)
> _Trebek unvotes Seshas [1->] (#243)_
> *Keldeo votes Superjolt [->1] (#317)*
> 
> 
> 
> Hey Seshas, I get that the bold entries are active votes, but is there any meaning to the italicised ones?
Click to expand...

it denotes when you unvote a member of the mafia.


----------



## Ys_

Thanks for the answers :)


kokorico said:


> That's fair! I'm sorry, I'm realising now that I might not have got my question across very well - I was actually more asking if you had any idea how wolf!you might play _this_ game in particular. Which is what I was trying to get at with the example of "people who you think you might try to mislynch".
> 
> And do feel free to tell me to fuck off at any point if you think I'm just wasting time. It's a valid opinion.


LOL xD all right, I'll keep that in mind. I got what you meant, at least mostly. But I'll try again. If I was mafia this game, maybe I would try to poke holes on people's reasoning, like maybe about specific reads. Or just try to blend in more, so post less. For example, seeing that my suggestion about having more reps caused polemic I could have backed down earlier. Or not suggested it at all. As for a possible mislynch, maybe Mist or even you.


kokorico said:


> No, no, I meant that _Mist_ isn't the only person who's been mentioning their _own_ lack of contributions. In the quote I posted, Trebek does the same thing. sanderidge said something similar in #194, too, albeit in a slightly different context. In general, I think not having anything much to go on on D1 isn't really alignment-indicative, especially when there weren't any N0 kills.
> 
> To be clear, I do share your doubts about Mist and would like to see more from them to allay my concerns, I'm just not at the point of actually scumleaning them yet.


Ohhh, all right, I see! About Mist, specifically, they already explained why they haven't posted much, so I'm not too concerned about their lack of contribution atm. To clarify, I wasn't exactly scumleaning them, or at least not enough for me to vote for them, but it did make me a bit weary that they were trying to coast.


kokorico said:


> Uhhhhr, maybe? The more I think about it the less confident I am in it, but it kind of feels like a bit of an attempt to get people thinking about them as town? Like, presumably they realise nobody else has reason to consider them conftown, so treating it as a given (even for a joke) comes off as a bit disingenuous. But then again I did pretty much exactly the same thing at the start of #244, so perhaps I'm being way, way too cynical.


Oh, fair. I don't think it's necessarily a bad thing to do, unless the person seemed to be unnecessarily pushing it. Or, like, if their tone sounded fake somehow...

-
By the way, I have a doctor's appointment tomorrow, so I'm not sure if I will be present at EoD, but I'll try.
Also, this game is fun. ^^


----------



## Keldeo

Ysabel, could you place a vote before you go, if you might not be back?


----------



## Superjolt

I’m here now, still really tired and feeling pretty stressed from the day but going to try to look at things


----------



## Tangrowth

Hey everyone, when does Day 1 end? I've been... pre-occupied. Thanks!


----------



## Bluwiikoon

Tomorrow (26th) at 19:00 UTC! ^^


----------



## Tangrowth

kokorico said:


> @M Plus 7 - Nice to see you earlier! Do you have any thoughts on the game so far? What do you think your general strategy is going to be?


I have not read anything yet, but I will be sure to do that ASAP. I'm... unsure how to handle the mechanic of popularity, but I am assuming you all have discussed that at some length, so I will see what you all have said and if I have anything to add there.


----------



## Tangrowth

Bluwiikoon said:


> Tomorrow (26th) at 19:00 UTC! ^^


Thanks so much, Blu!


----------



## Bluwiikoon

I really panicked earlier on when I thought EOD was today, like omg can you imagine 

Good thing my brain just skipped a day, internally! ^^


----------



## Tangrowth

mewtini said:


> @Mr. Ultracool hi!
> oh wait also @M Plus 7 interested in hearing what you think of things as well


Let's definitely try to realtime if possible! My goal is to do a bit of reading later tonight (Pacific time) and to be around as much as I can directly prior to EoD.


----------



## mewtini

M Plus 7 said:


> kokorico said:
> 
> 
> 
> @M Plus 7 - Nice to see you earlier! Do you have any thoughts on the game so far? What do you think your general strategy is going to be?
> 
> 
> 
> I have not read anything yet, but I will be sure to do that ASAP. I'm... unsure how to handle the mechanic of popularity, but I am assuming you all have discussed that at some length, so I will see what you all have said and if I have anything to add there.
Click to expand...

there was talk of abstaining earlier on (around 95) and then in 134 ysabel proposed having a voting-representative system so that not everyone had to vote/run the risk of getting their popularity lowered - the second thing was the subject of lot of the day's discussion so you'll run into it for sure


----------



## mewtini

but yeah i'm around to realtime! :o


----------



## Bluwiikoon

Reminder to everybuddy to get some hydration in! :D Especially if you are in a heatwave! I am currently in The Heatwave and I feel like the dry SpongeBob image


----------



## Keldeo

Hi Superjolt and MP! Generically it'd be great to get your thoughts on everyone. I'm personally most interested in what you think of Ysabel, sanderidge, kokorico, and Trebek.

In general, it would be cool to get more votes on the table, you can always unvote or change them!

Longer post from me still coming at some point.


----------



## mewtini

i'm kind of just waiting on superjolt's catchup post for now but ... man. i am so used to 72h day phases wtf.


----------



## Bluwiikoon

Keldeo placing a vote is interesting, but I'm glad a vote is happening! I'm not sure where to go on D1, and if anything it can help with mech stuff later on


----------



## mewtini

interesting how?


----------



## Bluwiikoon

I realised during Cats game especially that committing to things is scary to me for some reason LOL. But all I can do is try my best!


----------



## mewtini

it is scary tbh! i think that was kinda my main cats takeaway even if it lost the game - that owning your takes/instincts is better than psyching yourself out about them and hedging :v trying to keep that in mind but also i kind of suck at it so, we will see,


----------



## Bluwiikoon

mewtini said:


> interesting how?


If I recall correctly Keldeo was the first person to vote in Cats, too, wherein he was a mafia goon. It is of course not necessarily AI but it's something to put a sticky note on imo ^^ He could just feel comfy enough this game to not mind making a similar play to his wolfplay


----------



## Superjolt

Looking at koko - I still think the keldeo read was a little quick because that keldeo post doesn’t seem like it could be outside his scum meta but I’m also not sure if scum!koko would go for such a quick read? I feel like Koko sounded kind of unsure of eirself in eir posts last game as scum (at least from what I remember, or maybe that was in the early game?) but sounds pretty confident this time around. Kind of unsure here though, I also didn’t really follow the read on blu

Also speaking of koko and questions for me: (no quote sorry but it was in 244) I’m kind of against it for reasons others said and also similar to mewtini I like seeing how votes/ wagons come together and looking at those later @kokorico


----------



## mewtini

Bluwiikoon said:


> If I recall correctly Keldeo was the first person to vote in Cats, too, wherein he was a mafia goon. It is of course not necessarily AI but it's something to put a sticky note on imo ^^ He could just feel comfy enough this game to not mind making a similar play to his wolfplay


oh fair. i kind of think his vote there had less rationale than it seems to here, or at least i'm following it better in this game - and his vote there came earlier than it is now considering the variant daylengths


----------



## mewtini

Superjolt said:


> I’m also not sure if scum!koko would go for such a quick read?


what do you make of it being potential tmi


----------



## Keldeo

Bluwiikoon said:


> mewtini said:
> 
> 
> 
> interesting how?
> 
> 
> 
> If I recall correctly Keldeo was the first person to vote in Cats, too, wherein he was a mafia goon. It is of course not necessarily AI but it's something to put a sticky note on imo ^^ He could just feel comfy enough this game to not mind making a similar play to his wolfplay
Click to expand...

I was indeed! 

@Eifie I am starting a wagon. Shower me in praise.


----------



## mewtini

mewtini said:


> Superjolt said:
> 
> 
> 
> I’m also not sure if scum!koko would go for such a quick read?
> 
> 
> 
> what do you make of it being potential tmi
Click to expand...

i forget where it was but i think keldeo mentioned it being part of eir scumplay (and i think e even mentioned it emself?)


----------



## mewtini

i wasn't sure if i was making that up or not tbh lol so i went to go find it. turns out the second part didn't happen (e was just talking about their town meta here, not eir wolfgame) but the first bit was this thing


Keldeo said:


> I'm still a little sketched out by how early eir read on me was - I don't have a good grasp on eir playstyle but e read as fairly "TMI-y" as mafia in Cats (townreading people e knew to be town, sometimes based on very little), and like, I'd made literally 4 posts, ~2 of which were talking about this game and not theory. For a meta read that's based on the enduring absence of a certain form of hostility, it still feels a bit premature even if e was coming into the game looking for it. I would like other people to talk to me about this, I know I may be seizing onto something that isn't meaningful.


----------



## Superjolt

mewtini said:


> Superjolt said:
> 
> 
> 
> I’m also not sure if scum!koko would go for such a quick read?
> 
> 
> 
> what do you make of it being potential tmi
Click to expand...

I can see it this way too, talking about last game I was just trying to remember what eir posts were like last game and maybe just misremembering. Conclusion so far is really just unsure about koko rn


----------



## Zori

_Votecount (#360):_
*Superjolt* | 1 | Keldeo (#317)



Spoiler: Vote History



Trebek votes mewtini [->1] (#216)
_Trebek unvotes mewtini [0->] (#217)_
mewtini votes kyeugh [->1] (#219)
_mewtini unvotes kyeugh [0->] (#223)_
*Keldeo votes Superjolt [->1] (#317)*



All votes on non-players have been removed from history for the sake of clarity.
Bolded are acive votes, italicized are active unvotes.


----------



## mewtini

interested in jolt's general reads/replies to some of the earlier questions (like the skylar interest) but assuming he's reading back atm

but also before i forget - @Mr. Ultracool i saw you reacting to my pings earlier haha! would like to know where your head is at when you get the chance


----------



## Ys_

Keldeo said:


> Ysabel, could you place a vote before you go, if you might not be back?


All right. Uhh other than the inactives my lower reads are SJ and Mist. Sanderidge is higher bc of what I perceive as genuineness and helpfulness. I've pretty much talked about everyone else. And Mist says their play improves on D2 so I'm giving them the benefit of the doubt for now. That said,
*Vote Superjolt*


----------



## Keldeo

Ysabel said:


> For Trebek it's a mix of tone plus having good arguments/reasons





Ysabel said:


> [Keldeo's] posts have good quality to them plus he brings good points.


Can you elaborate on what you mean here, Ysabel?


----------



## Superjolt

mewtini said:


> interested in jolt's general reads/replies to some of the earlier questions (like the skylar interest) but assuming he's reading back atm
> 
> but also before i forget - @Mr. Ultracool i saw you reacting to my pings earlier haha! would like to know where your head is at when you get the chance


I think the only ones that replied to the question were koko and sande and only sande gave a serious answer so I don’t have much to say about the replies (but has anyone else besides Ysabel given any takes on kyeugh? actually they probably did and I’ve missed it :o

But anyway what I was thinking was that kyeugh seems ok and I get ok vibes there but last game I got really strong townvibes and (even though I subbed out I thought she was easy to townread) and the vibes are comparatively weak here for me. I wanted to see where others were at and if they might have similar feels

Getting a list together which I’ll get back to now! Ugh typing this all on mobile is painful and tedious


----------



## mewtini

Superjolt said:


> I think the only ones that replied to the question were koko and sande and only sande gave a serious answer so I don’t have much to say about the replies (but has anyone else besides Ysabel given any takes on kyeugh? actually they probably did and I’ve missed it :o


oh sorry, i was just asking about why you asked about skylar! that was unclear. what made the vibes strong in cats?

in re: other responses about her ... i talked about her near the end of my long/convoluted thoughtspost (293) - basically i think she sounds pretty much like she did as town in cats (memery) and she's talked a bit about mech, esp since she apparently got targeted by the depopularizer thing. i want to say a few people did talk about her actually on the basis of vibes (+ being the target of that maybe-wolf role) but it's sort of scattered around the thread so


----------



## mewtini

mewtini said:


> what made the vibes strong in cats?


mostly as opposed to here


----------



## Tangrowth

I am simultaneously exhausted and invigorated, so let's see how this goes.


----------



## Keldeo

Spoiler






kokorico said:


> @Keldeo, the reason I asked this question was that sanderidge and Bluwiikoon were at the bottom of my (very loosely ordered and sketchy!) readlist, and they did have an interaction on the early pages (#66) - albeit not one I'd personally read anything much into. I wondered if, in the scenario where they were w/w, she might panic thinking she'd given something away. She didn't, though, and also since then she's made more posts I kind of like, in particular the mech speculation at the top of #187 and her slightly emotional uncertainty in #194. So she's no longer floating so far down for me. And I guess this counts as a small point in favour of Blu too, in a strict Bayesian sense.
> 
> @Ysabel - If you were mafia, what do you think you would be trying to accomplish toDay? For example, who do you think you would be picking out as the best candidate for a mislynch?






I don't really see how asking someone about other people's interactions helps to reaction test them about an interaction they had with someone else, but like, koko evidently asked the original question with this explanation in mind regardless of eir alignment so it's whatever. This question from koko to Ysabel is fine, I want to say it makes her and koko less likely to be partners. 

I do not think Julia would go to mafia chat before posting, and I don't read any particular purity into the posts she did make. I still do not want to vote her today just out of like... giving some more time to a new player.

I think Ysabel's posting has been fine and rereading her posting I'm moving her up. Though a lot of the reasoning she gave in #275 was generic, I liked the specificity in her points about Blu, mewtini, and kyeugh, and the straightforwardness in her answering what she'd do in this game as mafia in #334. I feel meh about her shading people who have been less active, but that's my instinct as well. :/ I kind of think she has a limited number of possible mafia partners, as well. 

I think the #DetailedHedging about a lot of different things in Mewtini's #293 is like, really good, and pretty tonally similar to her game in Cats and TVTropes. If I had to point to actual things: reads she makes on really small things or not conventionally alignment-indicative things like Skylar's legsnom, waffling like worrying about misreading Julia, the background processing evident in her question to koko in #308, townreading me when she could probably just hit me with the fear nullread. I have no idea how she would play as mafia, but I'm not voting her today, I don't think.

--



Ysabel said:


> BTW Koko and keldeo, you don't have to answer right now but what's the point of these qs? Specifically the one about what I do as town and what I would do as maf? Not to discredit them, but I could be lying or withholding information.


You could be for sure, but presumably if you are town you aren't lying or withholding anything, and therefore an answer could give me insight into your approach that would allow me to correctly townread you. I also was just curious about how you think about the game, in general, since we haven't played together before but you mentioned some past experience in a different thread. 

Also, probably not a super helpful answer, but I ask questions because I want to know the answers, hehe. Could be because I think they'll help me read the answerer or the person we're talking about, because I think the answers may be helpful in the future, or because I'm just curious and I like the social aspect of mafia. I don't usually make reads/conclusions directly about the answers, but I do incorporate them into later reviews, and I can always talk about what I think of a specific post or what I had in mind while asking a specific question.



mewtini said:


> awkward moment when my list is pretty much split by "people who post" vs "people who don't post"


It's like... maybe possible that this game is sortable by post count? I'm probably wrongly townreading someone who's posting. But I think I'm okay with trying to figure that out later. 



mewtini said:


> i think i'm missing something, i didn't realize you were considering voting koko earlier


Sorry, I thought I had made it clear that I was suspecting/not-townreading koko earlier. I wanted to move em out of my voting pools as a "let's give em another day here" sort of thing.



kokorico said:


> More or less agree with your tiers (Blu excepted), but I'm feeling a bit more positive about Trebek. What do you make of his post here, where he pointed out that mafia might well be wagon-dancing to avoid getting hit by the popularity mechanic? (I thought I remembered you saying something about it already, but I can't find it in your ISO, so apologies if you've already addressed it.)


No worries. I don't find that as towny as you and mewtini seem to, because I don't entirely see why a mafia wouldn't make that post. I think what he pointed out is kind of obvious and he also did not come to any conclusion or anything there. But I'm like... fine with sheeping Mewtini's personality read on him for now, I'll probably reread him in a bit. 



kokorico said:


> Uhhhhr, maybe? The more I think about it the less confident I am in it, but it kind of feels like a bit of an attempt to get people thinking about them as town? Like, presumably they realise nobody else has reason to consider them conftown, so treating it as a given (even for a joke) comes off as a bit disingenuous. But then again I did pretty much exactly the same thing at the start of #244, so perhaps I'm being way, way too cynical.


I'd call that post of Mist's "look at me I'm so towny" (LAMIST) on a level. I think it's a post they could've made as either alignment with the intent to express their totally town mindset. I guess I would keep an eye out for Mist continuing to promise and not deliver thoughts.

--

@kokorico, could you give updated reads on me and Blu?



Mist1422 said:


> I'll be back with Takes:tm: shortly most likely


@Mist1422 I'm interested in these :O


----------



## Superjolt

Some quick takes here, it’s not much but probably the best I can do for now (I kind of started skimming everything)



Spoiler



Bluwiikoon - mentioned already that I get the same kind of pure Vibes as last game and this hasn’t changed (though Blu did feel a little more solvey on D1 in Cats I thought)

Mist - no opinion here, guess they never came in to give those Takes(tm)

sanderidge - I kind of want to say sande feels pure on tone (kind of similar to Blu but also maybe less so and with an asterisk that she does have more experience... if this makes sense? maybe need to revisit later)

kyeugh - kind of gave thoughts above already

kokorico - gave thoughts here too, still unsure here 

Ysabel - seems alright so far? Her reads felt genuine at least.  I did skim tho so maybe need to check over again 

Keldeo - feels good so far and I don’t think I’ve had a problem with any of the questions he’s asked. I will note that I kind of felt the same way in Cats about him early on though. I also don’t support the wagon he’s started! On a serious note though not entirely sure how I feel about his vote on me, I think it would have been stronger if he had coupled it with more than just getting me to contribute, which I would have done anyway even without a vote (unless there’s actually more to it and I’m already forgetting)

mewtini- Getting similar vibes to last game where she was town so I think town

Trebek- thought he seemed ok early on but not sure now, he was tough to read last game 

404 not found - Julia, Mr ultracool , m+7

hmm this feels like too many unsures/nulls... but this is where I’m at



Umm if I had questions for anyone I honestly can’t remember anymore my brain is so fried at this point lmao. Also screw you xenforo for eating part of this post somehow and making me type that part again! 

I have to get up early and I’m dreading it  D: 

so now I sleep...


----------



## mewtini

thanks for the list!
another q if you have a second - if EoD were now, where would you be voting?


----------



## mewtini

M Plus 7 said:


> I am simultaneously exhausted and invigorated, so let's see how this goes.


tbh if it helps with like direction or whatever when you get back, i'm wondering what you think about koko/ysabel (and the other people keldeo mentioned, to a slightly lesser extent)


----------



## Tangrowth

Okayyyy let's try this again.


----------



## Tangrowth

mewtini said:


> M Plus 7 said:
> 
> 
> 
> I am simultaneously exhausted and invigorated, so let's see how this goes.
> 
> 
> 
> tbh if it helps with like direction or whatever when you get back, i'm wondering what you think about koko/ysabel (and the other people keldeo mentioned, to a slightly lesser extent)
Click to expand...

Noted, thanks! I'll take that into consideration.


----------



## Tangrowth

Spoiler






Keldeo said:


> Snooloo rolls.
> 
> --
> 
> Hi everyone! Excited to be here.
> 
> Like I said in the signup thread, probably will be making infrequent posts and taking it easy.
> 
> I won't be doing hypocop, because without role reveals, we get the drawbacks (it can tell the mafia who isn't the cop) without much of the benefits. I don't actually know whether roles are revealed upon death, but I'm assuming they are not.
> 
> Do we know if this game is all vanilla / only a few power roles / mostly power roles? If it was mentioned somewhere, I forgot. I guess we know it's not the first because of the popularity role mechanic.
> 
> Poor kyeugh btw. I like kyeugh! You rock!






Look at that slank cover, let's kill Keldeo.


----------



## Keldeo

Aww, did you rand mafia without me?


----------



## Tangrowth

Keldeo said:


> Aww, did you rand mafia without me?


Ha, nice try.


----------



## Tangrowth

Keldeo said:


> Snooloo sniffs the fresh afternoon air.
> 
> --
> 
> 
> 
> kokorico said:
> 
> 
> 
> Good spot! The thing my mind immediately jumps to is silencing, but I suppose there isn't really any way to confirm that.
> 
> 
> 
> Sorry, I don't follow - if you mean not being able to post in the thread, sande already made a post today.
> 
> I'm going to assume it's just a typo or something unless given other indication. Without anything else to talk about, I guess it's fair to look into.
Click to expand...

Are you going to RP Snooloo the whole game? Because I'm down for that.


----------



## Tangrowth

mewtini said:


> imagine getting pocketed!
> 
> lol what if the strikethrough is just the tvtropes leak 2.0


The risk of being pocketed is worth the benefit of forming a towncore. You shouldn't feel down about Cats fwiw.


----------



## Tangrowth

Bluwiikoon said:


> I gotta shower but I wanted to pop in real quick to say "Snooom!" and wiggle enthusiastically


Now this is a towny post if I've ever seen one.


----------



## mewtini

Keldeo said:


> I do not think Julia would go to mafia chat before posting, and I don't read any particular purity into the posts she did make.


meh this is fair, i'll probably back off of that. i just didn't really want her in the Voting Pool because i wanted to give her more time and i read it innocently enough but i'm not actively townreading her either off of those two posts :p

i kind of feel strange about some parts of ysabel's posting (beyond 275, i liked her reasoning there) but i can't tell if it's just like ... by virtue of me being unfamiliar with her and her tone? i don't really understand her lines of questioning and while there are obviously people here whose playstyles include some level of interrogation (keldeo generally, and koko's doing it a fair bit in this game) and well. tbh i think i SRed keldeo for it the first time i saw it because i thought it was performative, but having played with him i can usually see some sort of logic when he pokes at others like that; i'm not yet there with ysabel

on the other hand i agree with keldeo's points about her in re: her straightforwardness, and i still think that proposing the voting rep plan is more of a town move (if only because i think it's sort of unnecessary to do as mafia)


Keldeo said:


> It's like... maybe possible that this game is sortable by post count?


i would enjoy that very much tbh. but i doubt it. 


Keldeo said:


> I don't entirely see why a mafia wouldn't make that post. I think what he pointed out is kind of obvious and he also did not come to any conclusion or anything there.


it's not really that i think mafia actively wouldn't - i just think i can see town getting excited about bringing it up more than i'm seeing a wolf bothering to say it, and i'm confbiased by the personality read (i just remember him being so shy as town in cats until mech stuff popped up, so i don't think he'd be posting as much as he is as a wolf?)

i'm confused on the second half of this quote though. what sort of conclusions could he come to? he was referring to wagon movement that hasn't yet happened


Keldeo said:


> I'd call that post of Mist's "look at me I'm so towny" (LAMIST) on a level. I think it's a post they could've made as either alignment with the intent to express their totally town mindset. I guess I would keep an eye out for Mist continuing to promise and not deliver thoughts.


fwiw the LAMIST talk is part of why i scumread mist in cats, though that was a different scenario since it happened closer to endgame. i kind of think that that is just how mist talks tbh so i'm holding out for actual content as well


----------



## mewtini

M Plus 7 said:


> The risk of being pocketed is worth the benefit of forming a towncore. You shouldn't feel down about Cats fwiw.


thank you tbh. i will probably continue feeling sad about it but i love this validation


----------



## Tangrowth

Bluwiikoon said:


> I feel like the flavor text indicates some kind of power role that can drag people  I'd assume such a thing would be a wolf power, so maybe for now we can assume kyeugh is innocent? Just the target of mean gossip LOL


I'm not exactly sure why, but this reads towny to me. I don't think this is a manufactured thought.


----------



## Tangrowth

mewtini said:


> M Plus 7 said:
> 
> 
> 
> The risk of being pocketed is worth the benefit of forming a towncore. You shouldn't feel down about Cats fwiw.
> 
> 
> 
> thank you tbh. i will probably continue feeling sad about it but i love this validation
Click to expand...

Each loss is a chance to learn something about yourself and how to improve your play, and no one will ever be perfect forever. You will be pocketed. It's just something you have to learn to accept as the cost of playing that sort of game. I, for one, think it will *always* be worth it for all the games in which a towncore crunches out the wolves via POE... such a satisfying feeling.


----------



## kyeugh

lamist = prejudiced against people who are lame


----------



## mewtini

mewtini said:


> M Plus 7 said:
> 
> 
> 
> I am simultaneously exhausted and invigorated, so let's see how this goes.
> 
> 
> 
> tbh if it helps with like direction or whatever when you get back, i'm wondering what you think about koko/ysabel (and the other people keldeo mentioned, to a slightly lesser extent)
Click to expand...

oh wait, also jolt's recent posting tbh


----------



## Tangrowth

Trebek said:


> ok so i woke up this morning and was like <trebek don’t forget snomfia starts today> and then i did :< but i’m alive now!
> 
> i would also hardclaim VT but i’d rather choose my own calling in life :p maybe i’ll hardclaim alien


This sounds awkward to me.


----------



## Tangrowth

Blu is town.


----------



## Keldeo

That's just ableism, Skylar. :V

Can you talk to me more about what confuses you about Ysabel, mewtini? I feel like she seems genuine enough, but I think I get what you mean about her tone.



mewtini said:


> i'm confused on the second half of this quote though. what sort of conclusions could he come to? he was referring to wagon movement that hasn't yet happened


What I mean is that Trebek said it'd be interesting to look at, without committing to what "interesting" would mean or what exactly he'd be looking at... it's inconclusive in the sense that it like, means he could basically say whatever later on about reactions to the wagons.

I do think, though, that saying specifically what he would have been looking for as town would have been somewhat anti-town - this later post of his, along similar lines, reads fairly pure to me: 


Trebek said:


> mewtini said:
> 
> 
> 
> will be interesting to see what the role does next tbh
> 
> 
> 
> yeah, i want to wait to see whether or not the depopularity-izer [redacted bc otherwise theyll be biased by knowing what im looking for]
Click to expand...


----------



## mewtini

M Plus 7 said:


> Blu is town.


i agree tbh.


----------



## mewtini

mewtini said:


> M Plus 7 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Blu is town.
> 
> 
> 
> i agree tbh.
Click to expand...

on the other hand if he somehow is just emulating his townself as mafia ... i'll just accept the consequences ig >:


----------



## Tangrowth

mewtini said:


> yeah i'm still in favor of a d1 lynch but i'm also worried that i'm not giving enough weight to the mech or something


I pretty much will always vehemently argue in favor of a d1 lynch unless someone can definitively prove to me otherwise in the event of a truly strange mechanics situation.


----------



## Tangrowth

mewtini said:


> mewtini said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> M Plus 7 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Blu is town.
> 
> 
> 
> i agree tbh.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> on the other hand if he somehow is just emulating his townself as mafia ... i'll just accept the consequences ig >:
Click to expand...

What inspired this follow-up specifically though?


----------



## kyeugh

i know this seems farfetched but please entertain my tinfoil here. just because mp7 and blu are fishing brothers don’t necessarily mean they’re town. we never got a cop check on them. what if they’re actually mafia and we’ve just been giving them a free pass because of their roles? something to consider.


----------



## kyeugh

Keldeo said:


> That's just ableism, Skylar. :V


oh yeah, i forgot lame could mean that.


----------



## Tangrowth

kyeugh said:


> i know this seems farfetched but please entertain my tinfoil here. just because mp7 and blu are fishing brothers don’t necessarily mean they’re town. we never got a cop check on them. what if they’re actually mafia and we’ve just been giving them a free pass because of their roles? something to consider.


Lolololol.


----------



## Tangrowth

M Plus 7 said:


> mewtini said:
> 
> 
> 
> yeah i'm still in favor of a d1 lynch but i'm also worried that i'm not giving enough weight to the mech or something
> 
> 
> 
> I pretty much will always vehemently argue in favor of a d1 lynch unless someone can definitively prove to me otherwise in the event of a truly strange mechanics situation.
Click to expand...

Oh fuck me, d1 YEET, of course. What does that word lynch even mean anyway?


----------



## mewtini

M Plus 7 said:


> What inspired this follow-up specifically though?


basically just that the events of cats/me getting convinced that he mechanically had to be mafia there made me think a lot about how his purity could very easily pocket me if he could reproduce it as a wolf tbh. he's one of the players i'm a bit paranoid about here


----------



## Tangrowth

Trebek said:


> the real question is, if town decides to try to yeet someone today, it will be interesting to see how mafia react around the wagons, since they know how it will affect their popularity and we don’t


@Trebek

Elaborate on this ASAP and tag me in this response. I need you to tell me more about the underlined assuming you haven't already elsewhere in the thread. What information are you hoping to glean specifically?


----------



## Tangrowth

mewtini said:


> M Plus 7 said:
> 
> 
> 
> What inspired this follow-up specifically though?
> 
> 
> 
> basically just that the events of cats/me getting convinced that he mechanically had to be mafia there made me think a lot about how his purity could very easily pocket me if he could reproduce it as a wolf tbh. he's one of the players i'm a bit paranoid about here
Click to expand...

What makes you think that though?


----------



## Tangrowth

Hey @Keldeo, want to realtime? What do you think of mewtini?


----------



## Tangrowth

Mist1422 said:


> see every time someone calls zoruas scum I get sad because they are cute!!! and i wanna be a zorua!!! but sadly i had to roll town and enjoy it


Talk to me more about your alignment preferences and meta if you don't mind.


----------



## mewtini

M Plus 7 said:


> What makes you think that though?


because my TR on him in cats was almost entirely toneread, not really content-related


----------



## Tangrowth

mewtini said:


> M Plus 7 said:
> 
> 
> 
> What makes you think that though?
> 
> 
> 
> because my TR on him in cats was almost entirely toneread, not really content-related
Click to expand...

Oh okay, I understand now, thanks.

Are there any specific posts in his ISO in this game that give you pause?


----------



## kyeugh

never forget that blu wrote pcb0000. our emotions are in the palm of his hand.


----------



## Tangrowth

Trebek's posting is _incredibly_ awkward.


----------



## Keldeo

(don't townread MP7 for tone, don't townread MP7 for tone, don't townread MP7 for tone)


M Plus 7 said:


> Hey @Keldeo, want to realtime? What do you think of mewtini?


Sure! I have a pretty strong townread on her that I talked about in the fourth paragraph in my #368, and I'm probably confirmation biasing a little bit but it just seems like she has... layers of thinking going on when she talks about things? (e.g. #397 on this page) What makes you say Blu is town?


----------



## Tangrowth

M Plus 7 said:


> Trebek's posting is _incredibly_ awkward.


Actually, you know what, let's do this.

*Trebek*


----------



## Tangrowth

Keldeo said:


> (don't townread MP7 for tone, don't townread MP7 for tone, don't townread MP7 for tone)
> 
> 
> M Plus 7 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Hey @Keldeo, want to realtime? What do you think of mewtini?
> 
> 
> 
> Sure! I have a pretty strong townread on her that I talked about in the fourth paragraph in my #368, and I'm probably confirmation biasing a little bit but it just seems like she has... layers of thinking going on when she talks about things? (e.g. #397 on this page) What makes you say Blu is town?
Click to expand...

The feeling is mutual, friend.

Fantastic, I'll try to independently come to my own conclusion then and talk to you thereafter, thanks for the link.

Basically stream of consciousness posting in the entrance and subsequent posts that in a body of work sense doesn't seem manufactured to me. I'll ISO later to see what I think in greater depth... when I get around to it, anyway.


----------



## Keldeo

Can you tell me more about Trebek when you're done catching up, MP?

What do you think of Trebek, kyeugh? I've noticed you liking a few semi-suspicious posts iirc.


----------



## Tangrowth

Keldeo said:


> Can you tell me more about Trebek when you're done catching up, MP?
> 
> What do you think of Trebek, kyeugh? I've noticed you liking a few semi-suspicious posts iirc.


I absolutely will.


----------



## mewtini

Keldeo said:


> What I mean is that Trebek said it'd be interesting to look at, without committing to what "interesting" would mean or what exactly he'd be looking at... it's inconclusive in the sense that it like, means he could basically say whatever later on about reactions to the wagons.


yeah, that's fair. i kind of think that, given the other [redacted] remark he made, he was just avoiding giving wolves information on what he was waiting for though

will answer your ysabel question in a bit, trying to iso her for it.



M Plus 7 said:


> Trebek's posting is _incredibly_ awkward.


fwiw i see where this is coming from and i'm maybe biased because i talk to him every day, haha, but ... i am pretty sure i don't vote him today and i'd way sooner vote out superjolt because i think his reads were not the deepest/felt more manufactured than some of the comments trebek made, esp given that the latter has repeatedly talked about preferring mech to tonereading


----------



## mewtini

mewtini said:


> i'm maybe biased because i talk to him every day


by which i mean that i think a lot of the turns of phrase feel familiar to me, as someone who knows his style of speech


----------



## Tangrowth

mewtini said:


> sup mp7 :D


Sup! Sorry I didn't see this at the time, haha.


----------



## Tangrowth

mewtini said:


> Keldeo said:
> 
> 
> 
> What I mean is that Trebek said it'd be interesting to look at, without committing to what "interesting" would mean or what exactly he'd be looking at... it's inconclusive in the sense that it like, means he could basically say whatever later on about reactions to the wagons.
> 
> 
> 
> yeah, that's fair. i kind of think that, given the other [redacted] remark he made, he was just avoiding giving wolves information on what he was waiting for though
> 
> will answer your ysabel question in a bit, trying to iso her for it.
> 
> 
> 
> M Plus 7 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Trebek's posting is _incredibly_ awkward.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> fwiw i see where this is coming from and i'm maybe biased because i talk to him every day, haha, but ... i am pretty sure i don't vote him today and i'd way sooner vote out superjolt because i think his reads were not the deepest/felt more manufactured than some of the comments trebek made, esp given that the latter has repeatedly talked about preferring mech to tonereading
Click to expand...

I'll consider this, thanks. It's entirely possible my reads will look different once I read more than... 1/4 --> 1/3 of the game, lmao.


----------



## mewtini

Keldeo said:


> (don't townread MP7 for tone, don't townread MP7 for tone, don't townread MP7 for tone)


yeah i was just thinking that she sounds the same as she did in cats where i early-TRed her. and now i'm scared >:


----------



## Tangrowth

Ysabel said:


> Hi, I'm here!
> 
> As for the popularity scale, we can choose one or two people to vote for everyone and choose different people each day. That way we minimize the risk of too many snoms losing popularity at once.


Someone should talk to me about this entrance post.


----------



## Tangrowth

mewtini said:


> Keldeo said:
> 
> 
> 
> (don't townread MP7 for tone, don't townread MP7 for tone, don't townread MP7 for tone)
> 
> 
> 
> yeah i was just thinking that she sounds the same as she did in cats where i early-TRed her. and now i'm scared >:
Click to expand...

I'll be bleeding town in no time, don't sweat it. I can feel it already.


----------



## Keldeo

mewtini, what makes the meme-ness of Skylar's play here to you similar to her town game in Cats and different from her mafia game in TVTropes? Or can you go a bit more in depth about your read on her in general?



Keldeo said:


> Sure! I have a pretty strong townread on her that I talked about in the fourth paragraph in my #368, and I'm probably confirmation biasing a little bit but it just seems like she has... layers of thinking going on when she talks about things? (e.g. #397 on this page) What makes you say Blu is town?


Oh, and also about mewtini, she feels more fluid and swayed by what other people think than I might expect from a mafia with stiff, agendaed reads...? See her thoughts on koko and Julia changing with my and Skylar's reads there. 

The caveat here is that these were both townreads becoming non-townreads, which would have an obvious agenda, and there are probably enough viable town targets today that it's not a big deal for mafia to be fluid.


----------



## Tangrowth

Spoiler






Keldeo said:


> Snooloo snoozes. Snzzz...
> 
> --
> 
> I think the rock is just a harmless rock that Emmy added in as flavor, haha.
> 
> Personally, I feel like we probably don't lose much by executing and voting as normal. I'm sure the popularity mechanic was balanced with the possibility of normal wagons and misvotes in mind, and I feel like consensus wagons usually kill town, but of course it depends. I do not think we should abstain - the numbers are pretty tight assuming there are 3 mafia, so I think we should take every chance we can get.
> 
> I think Blu feels pretty similar to how he was in early Cats mafia, where he was town.
> 
> 
> @Ysabel, just to make sure I'm understanding correctly - do you mean like we "elect" someone and have an unspoken agreement for no one to vote besides that person? Have you got any ideas for who that person would be right now? :O
> - Also, sorry, but can you tell me more about your experience playing or watching mafia?
> 
> @Superjolt, how's life? :D
> 
> @sanderidge, what do you like about Ysabel's voting idea?
> 
> @Bluwiikoon, how do you feel about playing as the mafia alignment?






Keldeo, why did you ask me about Blu if you had a similar read here?


----------



## Keldeo

M Plus 7 said:


> Keldeo, why did you ask me about Blu if you had a similar read here?


I wanted to know your reasoning specifically. A little confused by this question, so let me know if this isn't a satisfactory answer.

That it is similar to mine and that you stated the read so firmly off the bat ~bolster my confidence in my own read. Probably regardless of your alignment, though there are already elements of this catchup that I'm very tempted to townread lol.


----------



## Tangrowth

Why do I actually have to _develop reads_ on people this game, it's so much work.


----------



## Tangrowth

Keldeo said:


> M Plus 7 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Keldeo, why did you ask me about Blu if you had a similar read here?
> 
> 
> 
> I wanted to know your reasoning specifically. A little confused by this question, so let me know if this isn't a satisfactory answer.
> 
> That it is similar to mine and that you stated the read so firmly off the bat ~bolster my confidence in my own read. Probably regardless of your alignment, though there are already elements of this catchup that I'm very tempted to townread lol.
Click to expand...

What are they?


----------



## kyeugh

Keldeo said:


> What do you think of Trebek, kyeugh? I've noticed you liking a few semi-suspicious posts iirc.


i’m not sure what i think, but mp7 seems relatively sure what she thinks, and i’m interested in it. i prefer this wagon over superjolt’s at first glance.

i think i’m going to find trebek a hard read in general. i scumread him very strongly last game and it was not all due to my mechanical situation. i will say that i’ve just skimmed his iso and it doesn’t seem particularly awkward to me—or, well, it doesn’t feel significantly different from his cats play anyway, which i did think was somewhat awkward and that fed my ultimately erroneous read on him. so i guess i’m just interested in hearing mp7’s case here. i distrust my own ability to evaluate him.


----------



## Bluwiikoon

I think I'll have a look at trebek's iso because for some reason I have very town feelings about them? ^^; Should probably take insulin though, LOL (don't read forums while eating, pals!)


----------



## Tangrowth

kyeugh said:


> Keldeo said:
> 
> 
> 
> What do you think of Trebek, kyeugh? I've noticed you liking a few semi-suspicious posts iirc.
> 
> 
> 
> i’m not sure what i think, but mp7 seems relatively sure what she thinks, and i’m interested in it. i prefer this wagon over superjolt’s at first glance.
> 
> i think i’m going to find trebek a hard read in general. i scumread him very strongly last game and it was not all due to my mechanical situation. i will say that i’ve just skimmed his iso and it doesn’t seem particularly awkward to me—or, well, it doesn’t feel significantly different from his cats play anyway, which i did think was somewhat awkward and that fed my ultimately erroneous read on him. so i guess i’m just interested in hearing mp7’s case here. i distrust my own ability to evaluate him.
Click to expand...

My current read is very much a burning gut read. We'll see how I feel about it once I'm caught up.


----------



## mewtini

Keldeo said:


> Can you talk to me more about what confuses you about Ysabel, mewtini? I feel like she seems genuine enough, but I think I get what you mean about her tone.


the reason that i'm sort of confused about her is that i think i am also reading her as being sincere, but i'm kind of like ... i guess i'm just not following her all that well. for example:


Ysabel said:


> Trebek said:
> 
> 
> 
> the other issue i have with representatives is that it seems easy for mafia to weasel themselves into the process, maybe even electing a member of their own as the rep?
> 
> 
> 
> I don't disagree, but can you expand on this please? *Why is that bad?*
> Also, we can have different representatives on different days.
Click to expand...

i don't really see the point of this question? reading through it in realtime i thought it was kind of obvious that trebek's concern was that the proposed system would be more easily swayed by mafia somehow (even if, imo, it probably doesn't actually matter who the rep is)

but on the other hand i like her questioning here:


Ysabel said:


> sanderidge said:
> 
> 
> 
> i feel like a scumchat _might _let one of their own into the thread to go "hey uh how do you play mafia", especially since it feels like to me that a lot of people in this game are reading blu as town for tone reasons, so i'm not really feeling that not knowing stuff is clearing julia.
> 
> 
> 
> Can you expand on this, please? And how do reads on Blu relate to reads on Julia?
Click to expand...

and i think it is likely that i'm just thrown off by tone, because i'm reading it as sort of stilted (and looking back i also think i read the "koko/keldeo, what is the point of these questions?" thing way more combatively than it was actually written)


----------



## Tangrowth

It's also possible that Trebek's posting being awkward is not alignment indicative, which is something I of course am also considering. Just rolling with my gut for now.


----------



## Tangrowth

Bluwiikoon said:


> I think I'll have a look at trebek's iso because for some reason I have very town feelings about them? ^^; Should probably take insulin though, LOL (don't read forums while eating, pals!)


I would love to hear your input for sure.


----------



## Tangrowth

Also yes, self-care is good. Please everyone take care of themselves.


----------



## Keldeo

M Plus 7 said:


> Keldeo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> M Plus 7 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Keldeo, why did you ask me about Blu if you had a similar read here?
> 
> 
> 
> I wanted to know your reasoning specifically. A little confused by this question, so let me know if this isn't a satisfactory answer.
> 
> That it is similar to mine and that you stated the read so firmly off the bat ~bolster my confidence in my own read. Probably regardless of your alignment, though there are already elements of this catchup that I'm very tempted to townread lol.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> What are they?
Click to expand...

Your openness/willingness to give reads, how your reads on Blu / Trebek developed as you read. I'm not gonna disrespect your game and say you couldn't replicate those things as mafia, but what stuck in my memory about your EODs in Cats was that you hedged on things / left options open for yourself a bit more.


----------



## mewtini

in re: ysabel i think it's possible that, as i said before, i'm just skeptical of the semi-detached-interrogator playing style (which is why i brought up having side-eyed keldeo for it when i was first seeing him in tvtropes)


----------



## Tangrowth

Keldeo said:


> M Plus 7 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Keldeo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> M Plus 7 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Keldeo, why did you ask me about Blu if you had a similar read here?
> 
> 
> 
> I wanted to know your reasoning specifically. A little confused by this question, so let me know if this isn't a satisfactory answer.
> 
> That it is similar to mine and that you stated the read so firmly off the bat ~bolster my confidence in my own read. Probably regardless of your alignment, though there are already elements of this catchup that I'm very tempted to townread lol.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> What are they?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Your openness/willingness to give reads, how your reads on Blu / Trebek developed as you read. I'm not gonna disrespect your game and say you couldn't replicate those things as mafia, but what stuck in my memory about your EODs in Cats was that you hedged on things / left options open for yourself a bit more.
Click to expand...

Fair enough, we can always talk more about this later. I'm satisfied for now.


----------



## mewtini

M Plus 7 said:


> Are there any specific posts in his ISO in this game that give you pause?


not really tbh, i think it's fairly similar to cats so far. not that much content yet but what's there has the same spirit as last game imo


----------



## mewtini

kyeugh said:


> i prefer this wagon over superjolt’s at first glance.


why tbh?


----------



## Trebek

Keldeo said:


> What I mean is that Trebek said it'd be interesting to look at, without committing to what "interesting" would mean or what exactly he'd be


@Trebek

Elaborate on this ASAP and tag me in this response. I need you to tell me more about the underlined assuming you haven't already elsewhere in the thread. What information are you hoping to glean specifically?
[/QUOTE]

@M Plus 7 

Frankly, the reason i didnt elaborate when i origionally posted was that i didn't (and still don't to an extent) know _exactly_ what i was going to look for when it happened. I find that if i go into something with a notion of what im expecting to glean, i am able to confbias myself way too easily. However, i had a gut feeling that it would have been interesting, and i didn't want to withold that gut feeling from chat on grounds of not knowing how it would manifest, if that makes sense?


----------



## Trebek

wow rip that quote tbh


----------



## mewtini

Trebek said:


> (and still don't to an extent)


does this mean that you do have some idea, though? can you talk about that


----------



## Keldeo

Do you have any more behavioral reads beyond your Ysabel one, Trebek?

Also, can you talk a little about how you're planning to play/approach this game given your experience in Cats? If this question doesn't make sense to you, you can ignore it.


----------



## kyeugh

mewtini said:


> i don't really see the point of this question? reading through it in realtime i thought it was kind of obvious that trebek's concern was that the proposed system would be more easily swayed by mafia somehow (even if, imo, it probably doesn't actually matter who the rep is)


 i think i get what she meant here. it’s true that the mafia could influence the representative system, but why does that mean we shouldn’t do it? that point by itself isn’t really a sufficient argument to shoot the idea down, because it applies to regular voting too. i think she wanted him to expand on that, which seemed fair to me.


----------



## Tangrowth

It's cool, Trebek, thanks for the response. I'll consider it.


----------



## kyeugh

mewtini said:


> kyeugh said:
> 
> 
> 
> i prefer this wagon over superjolt’s at first glance.
> 
> 
> 
> why tbh?
Click to expand...

 i just think superjolt feels fine, i guess. i’m not sure it’s a townlean but i’m also not really feeling all that inclined to see him lynched and i’m not sure i understand what pressing him would achieve. i don’t really care if other people vote there but it’s not really striking my interest.


----------



## Tangrowth

I need a quick break, but I'll be back again tonight for sure.


----------



## Trebek

mewtini said:


> Trebek said:
> 
> 
> 
> (and still don't to an extent)
> 
> 
> 
> does this mean that you do have some idea, though? can you talk about that
Click to expand...

I think i have a better idea than i did before, but i worry that talking about my idea will result in people changing their behavior to make my idea worthless, so i would prefer to not bring it up until after wagons happen and/or enough people ask about it



Keldeo said:


> Do you have any more behavioral reads beyond your Ysabel one, Trebek?
> 
> Also, can you talk a little about how you're planning to play/approach this game given your experience in Cats? If this question doesn't make sense to you, you can ignore it.


to be honest, i don't have many behavioral reads, which is related to the second part of your question. I knew going into Cats that the mechanical portion of play was where i was much more comfortable, but i got stressed out D1 and tried to artificially create reads for the sake of "having reads" that i could tell people about, which ended up just causing more people to nullread me for large portions of the game. i wanted to try to play more to my strengths in this game, which may lead to an awkward D1 again, but i would rather run the risk of just getting yeeted early and having the opportunity to make more mech-based thoughts about the game than just making up things to talk about early on


----------



## kyeugh

can i vig, heal, and inspect the same person?


----------



## kyeugh

oops, this isn’t my dm with the gms.


----------



## mewtini

i think skylar is a PR because of [redacted].


----------



## mewtini

i don't really have strong lynch feelings but i think superjolt's preliminary reads here are decently different/shallower from how they were in cats tbh, and i think trebek is roughly in line with what i expected out of him in game 2


----------



## mewtini

mewtini said:


> decently different/shallower from


i love grammar. 2am vibes


----------



## mewtini

admittedly i think it's also very possibly just like. lower-effort play. i'm just comparing this to that one really long thoughtspost he made there, which i townread pretty quickly in a way that i'm not here


----------



## Bluwiikoon

Oh god quoting things on mobile. Thoughts about Trebek!



Trebek said:


> ok so i woke up this morning and was like <trebek don’t forget snomfia starts today> and then i did :< but i’m alive now!
> 
> i would also hardclaim VT but i’d rather choose my own calling in life :p maybe i’ll hardclaim alien


Joking about their role seems relaxed to me! ^^ I like the bit about choosing your own calling, I woulda loved to do that as VT in Cats LOL


Trebek said:


> if snoms are villagers and zorua are mafia, does that make ditto alien?





Trebek said:


> now i’m just thinking about snom in a top hat


Memey posts gives me more relaxed feelings!


Trebek said:


> on that note, something about the flavor has been bugging me
> 
> *the little rock in the road*


Bringing up flavour spec is something that I'm not sure maf would do. This and Trebek mentioning stealth rocks is what made me think there's a uhhh paranoid gun guy? (but snom flavour)


Trebek said:


> mewtini said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Trebek said:
> 
> 
> 
> the other issue i have with representatives is that it seems easy for mafia to weasel themselves into the process, maybe even electing a member of their own as the rep?
> 
> 
> 
> yeah also this, esp since we inevitably kind of lose the spontaneity of EoD this way :p
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> yeah, i just have bad Vibes about a mafia member becoming the representative and “oh no i wasn’t around to vote” if the votes on maf
Click to expand...

Very town concerns imo!


Trebek said:


> there are 2 wolves inside of you
> 
> one calls it snafia
> the other calls it snomfia


More relaxed memery 


Trebek said:


> mewtini said:
> 
> 
> 
> are you guys just trying to pocket me tbh >:o
> 
> ryan have you given/do you have any reads already? i forgot
> 
> 
> 
> vague townlean of ysabel over The Proposal (starring sandra bullock and ryan reynolds) but other than that, just sorta sitting back and soaking in the vibes (i have typical D1 angst bc not knowing mechanics makes things scary)
Click to expand...

I like that they read Ysabel as towny at that point despite not being keen on The Proposal. I kind of feel like a wolf would push Ysabel as being a bit suspect for her proposal, given the thing about wolves potentially being able to control the vote with voting reps etc.


Trebek said:


> mewtini said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Trebek said:
> 
> 
> 
> also would you complain if we were trying to pocket you >:)
> 
> 
> 
> considering my trauma, yes tbh D:
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> ok ill stop then :D
> 
> *mewtini*
Click to expand...




Trebek said:


> *unvote*


Joke votes and unvotes feel very relaxed to me LOL.


Trebek said:


> Ysabel said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Trebek said:
> 
> 
> 
> the other issue i have with representatives is that it seems easy for mafia to weasel themselves into the process, maybe even electing a member of their own as the rep?
> 
> 
> 
> I don't disagree, but can you expand on this please? Why is that bad?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> my concern i think got more generally/succinctly explained by keldeo, which is just the overall issues with consensus voting not hitting mafia. i was mostly just thinking about mafia pushing a consensus towards a townie, and then since only the representative votes it becomes a lot harder to analyze who was pushing to kill town
Click to expand...

I feel like a wolf would not necessarily bring this up! Analysis always benefits town imo


Trebek said:


> Bluwiikoon said:
> 
> 
> 
> Good news everyone! We resolved the ice cream situation, and they will trade me an unopened one :D
> 
> 
> 
> perfect, now i can safely *unvote*
> 
> i also agree that people should try to avoid tipping off their roles in how they talk about/do things relative to the popularity mechanic: at this early in the game we should probably not outwardly worry about it too much (inwardly is a different story :o)
Click to expand...

I like this post! Keeping roles under wraps us something I can vibe with. A wolf would not discourage uhhh posting assessed popularity ranks publicly, since again, someone with a -1 who refused to vote could be parsed as a power role.


Trebek said:


> mewtini said:
> 
> 
> 
> will be interesting to see what the role does next tbh
> 
> 
> 
> yeah, i want to wait to see whether or not the depopularity-izer [redacted bc otherwise theyll be biased by knowing what im looking for]
Click to expand...

 Keeping a tight lip on power spec also seems good.
[/QUOTE]
Overall: I'd just say Trebek feels super relaxed to me and seems to be playing more for town's favour than not.

I really hope the formatting doesn't break because oh god mobile


----------



## Bluwiikoon

You don't close a spoiler tag with a quote tag, blu!!!


----------



## kyeugh

blu/trebek w/w moment


----------



## Bluwiikoon

This is the first time I've really done an ISO in thread so I understand if it comes off as a Lot for me  I think if I can find useful things to do (like ISOs of people), that'll help me feel less aimless!


----------



## mewtini

Bluwiikoon said:


> Bringing up flavour spec is something that I'm not sure maf would do. This and Trebek mentioning stealth rocks is what made me think there's a uhhh paranoid gun guy? (but snom flavour)


fwiw, i think mafia would def bring up flavorspec if it struck them as a high-return thing to do (easy analysis that doesn't require actual player reading)

but also i still think trebek is in my null/slight townpile for now. i also liked how he talked about ysabel/was able to like, differentiate between her mindset and the proposal he disagreed with (and, imo, voiced towny concern about), though i guess that isn't something that's unreproducible as a wolf either


----------



## Trebek

if blu and i are thinking about the same thing then hes townlock rn :p


----------



## mewtini

huh


----------



## kyeugh

i just had an idea. mewtini, you’re my bff and we know a lot about each other—what if we established some kind of code using information only we would know? here’s a dictionary of words/codewords you can use:

i - first four digits of your credit card
am - second four digits of your credit card
a - third four digits of your credit card
townie - the expiration date of your credit card
doctor - the three numbers on the back of your credit card
cop - the street you grew up on
vigilante - the make and model of your first car
wolf - the name of your first pet


----------



## mewtini

i love friendship!


----------



## Bluwiikoon

Don't keep her hangin bro!!


----------



## Tangrowth

Okay, let's see what else I can do, heh.


----------



## mewtini

Bluwiikoon said:


> Don't keep her hangin bro!!


it's ok. a true friend will be patient with me.


----------



## Tangrowth

Spoiler






kokorico said:


> Hmm, now that he's made a few posts I'm pretty damn sure (let's say 85%) that Keldeo is town. I get that I've only played a couple of games with y'all so it's maybe a little bit early to be thinking about meta, but having had the chance to observe his thought process as scum last game makes me more confident in this. As a wolf I feel he comes across as a little combative, I think because he tries to distance himself from his scumbuddies and then realises he needs to be treating everyone else similarly as well. I'm not getting that sort of vibe from him this time at all.
> 
> I'm not as keen as he is on Bluwiikoon though. It's true that he's meming in a similar way to his behaviour in Cats (2019), but back then he sobered up when people actually started talking mafia. In this game we're already making plans but I think he's made, like, one non-joke post so far? And that was proposing an abstention. Idk, just seems a bit odd.
> 
> In principle, I like the idea of having a representative vote for us to minimise changes in popularity, but I definitely think we ought to decide on the yeet target with an actual faux-voting system (or by casting real votes and withdrawing them before EoD), so that the representative doesn't have the prerogative to use their subjective interpretation of the "town consensus". On the other hand, that might be pretty difficult to organise and I think Keldeo has a point that the popularity mechanic is probably balanced around normal voting behaviour.
> 
> 
> 
> sanderidge said:
> 
> 
> 
> i am posting this to remind myself to post again after i finish watching the celeste stream and napping
> 
> 
> 
> If you have a moment at some point, do you think you could have a quick pass over the last few pages and see if you notice any interactions that jump out to you as possibly w/w?
Click to expand...





@kokorico

I'm pretty much never yeeting Keldeo on d1 ever, but... I don't share your level of confidence here quite yet. Can you talk to me more about the distancing thing? Thanks!


----------



## Tangrowth

I'll try to actually form a read on Keldeo later. He's fine for now.


----------



## Tangrowth

I need to resist the urge to town read Keldeo for the Snooloo bits.


----------



## Tangrowth

M Plus 7 said:


> Spoiler
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> kokorico said:
> 
> 
> 
> Hmm, now that he's made a few posts I'm pretty damn sure (let's say 85%) that Keldeo is town. I get that I've only played a couple of games with y'all so it's maybe a little bit early to be thinking about meta, but having had the chance to observe his thought process as scum last game makes me more confident in this. As a wolf I feel he comes across as a little combative, I think because he tries to distance himself from his scumbuddies and then realises he needs to be treating everyone else similarly as well. I'm not getting that sort of vibe from him this time at all.
> 
> I'm not as keen as he is on Bluwiikoon though. It's true that he's meming in a similar way to his behaviour in Cats (2019), but back then he sobered up when people actually started talking mafia. In this game we're already making plans but I think he's made, like, one non-joke post so far? And that was proposing an abstention. Idk, just seems a bit odd.
> 
> In principle, I like the idea of having a representative vote for us to minimise changes in popularity, but I definitely think we ought to decide on the yeet target with an actual faux-voting system (or by casting real votes and withdrawing them before EoD), so that the representative doesn't have the prerogative to use their subjective interpretation of the "town consensus". On the other hand, that might be pretty difficult to organise and I think Keldeo has a point that the popularity mechanic is probably balanced around normal voting behaviour.
> 
> 
> 
> sanderidge said:
> 
> 
> 
> i am posting this to remind myself to post again after i finish watching the celeste stream and napping
> 
> 
> 
> If you have a moment at some point, do you think you could have a quick pass over the last few pages and see if you notice any interactions that jump out to you as possibly w/w?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> @kokorico
> 
> I'm pretty much never yeeting Keldeo on d1 ever, but... I don't share your level of confidence here quite yet. Can you talk to me more about the distancing thing? Thanks!
Click to expand...

Oops, disregard.


----------



## Tangrowth

kokorico said:


> FWIW, if I had to pick someone other than Keldeo to townlean it would also be Trebek. In my case it's based in no small part on his #109:
> 
> 
> Trebek said:
> 
> 
> 
> the real question is, if town decides to try to yeet someone today, it will be interesting to see how mafia react around the wagons, since they know how it will affect their popularity and we don’t
> 
> 
> 
> which is really not something I would expect the mafia to want to bring to our attention, except as some sort of mega-weird gambit centring around a popularity-affecting role, or I guess if they thought it would be super-obvious to us (hahahahaha) and wanted to bring it up first for townie points.
Click to expand...

This seems like it will be an important post at some point in the game.


----------



## Tangrowth

I'm changing my vote.

*kokorico*


----------



## kyeugh

M Plus 7 said:


> kokorico said:
> 
> 
> 
> FWIW, if I had to pick someone other than Keldeo to townlean it would also be Trebek. In my case it's based in no small part on his #109:
> 
> 
> Trebek said:
> 
> 
> 
> the real question is, if town decides to try to yeet someone today, it will be interesting to see how mafia react around the wagons, since they know how it will affect their popularity and we don’t
> 
> 
> 
> which is really not something I would expect the mafia to want to bring to our attention, except as some sort of mega-weird gambit centring around a popularity-affecting role, or I guess if they thought it would be super-obvious to us (hahahahaha) and wanted to bring it up first for townie points.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> This seems like it will be an important post at some point in the game.
Click to expand...

 what do you mean by this?


----------



## Tangrowth

kyeugh said:


> M Plus 7 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> kokorico said:
> 
> 
> 
> FWIW, if I had to pick someone other than Keldeo to townlean it would also be Trebek. In my case it's based in no small part on his #109:
> 
> 
> Trebek said:
> 
> 
> 
> the real question is, if town decides to try to yeet someone today, it will be interesting to see how mafia react around the wagons, since they know how it will affect their popularity and we don’t
> 
> 
> 
> which is really not something I would expect the mafia to want to bring to our attention, except as some sort of mega-weird gambit centring around a popularity-affecting role, or I guess if they thought it would be super-obvious to us (hahahahaha) and wanted to bring it up first for townie points.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> This seems like it will be an important post at some point in the game.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> what do you mean by this?
Click to expand...

At this moment I don't think kokorico and Trebek are both town.


----------



## Tangrowth

sanderidge said:


> _sandsnom bounces up and down. it seems to want to make a clarification to its last post._
> -----
> i forgot to say!!! i did read through All of cats mafia. so i do have that experience


What did you learn from it?


----------



## mewtini

i'm like about to fall asleep tbh so in the event that i actually zonk before 4am for once, @M Plus 7 i'm interested in your superjolt and koko thoughts


----------



## Trebek

M Plus 7 said:


> kyeugh said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> M Plus 7 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> kokorico said:
> 
> 
> 
> FWIW, if I had to pick someone other than Keldeo to townlean it would also be Trebek. In my case it's based in no small part on his #109:
> 
> 
> Trebek said:
> 
> 
> 
> the real question is, if town decides to try to yeet someone today, it will be interesting to see how mafia react around the wagons, since they know how it will affect their popularity and we don’t
> 
> 
> 
> which is really not something I would expect the mafia to want to bring to our attention, except as some sort of mega-weird gambit centring around a popularity-affecting role, or I guess if they thought it would be super-obvious to us (hahahahaha) and wanted to bring it up first for townie points.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> This seems like it will be an important post at some point in the game.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> what do you mean by this?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> At this moment I don't think kokorico and Trebek are both town.
Click to expand...

i may just be smooth braining rn, but how did you come to this conclusion?


----------



## mewtini

lol posting that brought up all of the koko thoughts. Nice


----------



## Bluwiikoon

If Koko got a wolf role three games in a row I will  (though to be fair e started off VT in tvt)


----------



## Tangrowth

Trebek said:


> M Plus 7 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> kyeugh said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> M Plus 7 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> kokorico said:
> 
> 
> 
> FWIW, if I had to pick someone other than Keldeo to townlean it would also be Trebek. In my case it's based in no small part on his #109:
> 
> 
> Trebek said:
> 
> 
> 
> the real question is, if town decides to try to yeet someone today, it will be interesting to see how mafia react around the wagons, since they know how it will affect their popularity and we don’t
> 
> 
> 
> which is really not something I would expect the mafia to want to bring to our attention, except as some sort of mega-weird gambit centring around a popularity-affecting role, or I guess if they thought it would be super-obvious to us (hahahahaha) and wanted to bring it up first for townie points.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> This seems like it will be an important post at some point in the game.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> what do you mean by this?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> At this moment I don't think kokorico and Trebek are both town.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> i may just be smooth braining rn, but how did you come to this conclusion?
Click to expand...

I think it is probable that if koko is wolf that he is TMI reading you as town there, but I also have my pre-existing thoughts about you being a wolf.


----------



## mewtini

koko uses e/em!


----------



## Tangrowth

mewtini said:


> koko uses e/em!


Oh dang it, thank you mew. I apologize if I mess that up for anyone else in the future, I'll try my best to avoid it.


----------



## Trebek

M Plus 7 said:


> Trebek said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> M Plus 7 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> kyeugh said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> M Plus 7 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> kokorico said:
> 
> 
> 
> FWIW, if I had to pick someone other than Keldeo to townlean it would also be Trebek. In my case it's based in no small part on his #109:
> 
> 
> Trebek said:
> 
> 
> 
> the real question is, if town decides to try to yeet someone today, it will be interesting to see how mafia react around the wagons, since they know how it will affect their popularity and we don’t
> 
> 
> 
> which is really not something I would expect the mafia to want to bring to our attention, except as some sort of mega-weird gambit centring around a popularity-affecting role, or I guess if they thought it would be super-obvious to us (hahahahaha) and wanted to bring it up first for townie points.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> This seems like it will be an important post at some point in the game.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> what do you mean by this?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> At this moment I don't think kokorico and Trebek are both town.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> i may just be smooth braining rn, but how did you come to this conclusion?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I think it is probable that if koko is wolf that he is TMI reading you as town there, but I also have my pre-existing thoughts about you being a wolf.
Click to expand...

ok, that makes sense! my smooth brain was that i forgot that you had pre existing thoughts about me :p


----------



## Tangrowth

mewtini said:


> i think this is going to be another game of me getting pocketed by people who sound cute inthread and then getting fucked over tbh. i feel it in my bones.


LMAO, what a mood.


----------



## Tangrowth

Trebek said:


> M Plus 7 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Trebek said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> M Plus 7 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> kyeugh said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> M Plus 7 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> kokorico said:
> 
> 
> 
> FWIW, if I had to pick someone other than Keldeo to townlean it would also be Trebek. In my case it's based in no small part on his #109:
> 
> 
> Trebek said:
> 
> 
> 
> the real question is, if town decides to try to yeet someone today, it will be interesting to see how mafia react around the wagons, since they know how it will affect their popularity and we don’t
> 
> 
> 
> which is really not something I would expect the mafia to want to bring to our attention, except as some sort of mega-weird gambit centring around a popularity-affecting role, or I guess if they thought it would be super-obvious to us (hahahahaha) and wanted to bring it up first for townie points.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> This seems like it will be an important post at some point in the game.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> what do you mean by this?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> At this moment I don't think kokorico and Trebek are both town.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> i may just be smooth braining rn, but how did you come to this conclusion?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I think it is probable that if koko is wolf that he is TMI reading you as town there, but I also have my pre-existing thoughts about you being a wolf.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> ok, that makes sense! my smooth brain was that i forgot that you had pre existing thoughts about me :p
Click to expand...

Oh, right, that makes sense. I admittedly could be wrong about you... starting to fade on that opinion.


----------



## Bluwiikoon

I like mp7's methodical and analytic approach this game  I feel like she's genuinely just puzzling things out, and although she had some rl stuff happening in Cats I think, in retrospect it felt odd in Cats (where she was wolf) that she would offer to ISO and post reads and then vanish a lot with not much followup. In this game, she feels far more involved


----------



## Tangrowth

I need to catch up faster.


----------



## Trebek

M Plus 7 said:


> Trebek said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> M Plus 7 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Trebek said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> M Plus 7 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> kyeugh said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> M Plus 7 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> kokorico said:
> 
> 
> 
> FWIW, if I had to pick someone other than Keldeo to townlean it would also be Trebek. In my case it's based in no small part on his #109:
> 
> 
> Trebek said:
> 
> 
> 
> the real question is, if town decides to try to yeet someone today, it will be interesting to see how mafia react around the wagons, since they know how it will affect their popularity and we don’t
> 
> 
> 
> which is really not something I would expect the mafia to want to bring to our attention, except as some sort of mega-weird gambit centring around a popularity-affecting role, or I guess if they thought it would be super-obvious to us (hahahahaha) and wanted to bring it up first for townie points.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> This seems like it will be an important post at some point in the game.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> what do you mean by this?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> At this moment I don't think kokorico and Trebek are both town.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> i may just be smooth braining rn, but how did you come to this conclusion?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I think it is probable that if koko is wolf that he is TMI reading you as town there, but I also have my pre-existing thoughts about you being a wolf.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> ok, that makes sense! my smooth brain was that i forgot that you had pre existing thoughts about me :p
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Oh, right, that makes sense. I admittedly could be wrong about you... starting to fade on that opinion.
Click to expand...

i was going to ask this earlier but forgot. you mentioned my earlier posts sounding awkward, what about them seemed that way? mostly asking this to have a point of self-reference in the future <3


----------



## Tangrowth

Bluwiikoon said:


> I like mp7's methodical and analytic approach this game  I feel like she's genuinely just puzzling things out, and although she had some rl stuff happening in Cats I think, in retrospect it felt odd in Cats (where she was wolf) that she would offer to ISO and post reads and then vanish a lot with not much followup. In this game, she feels far more involved


Yeah, admittedly that was a very strange game for me from a timing perspective; I usually post more as either alignment.


----------



## Tangrowth

Trebek said:


> M Plus 7 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Trebek said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> M Plus 7 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Trebek said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> M Plus 7 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> kyeugh said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> M Plus 7 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> kokorico said:
> 
> 
> 
> FWIW, if I had to pick someone other than Keldeo to townlean it would also be Trebek. In my case it's based in no small part on his #109:
> 
> 
> Trebek said:
> 
> 
> 
> the real question is, if town decides to try to yeet someone today, it will be interesting to see how mafia react around the wagons, since they know how it will affect their popularity and we don’t
> 
> 
> 
> which is really not something I would expect the mafia to want to bring to our attention, except as some sort of mega-weird gambit centring around a popularity-affecting role, or I guess if they thought it would be super-obvious to us (hahahahaha) and wanted to bring it up first for townie points.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> This seems like it will be an important post at some point in the game.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> what do you mean by this?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> At this moment I don't think kokorico and Trebek are both town.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> i may just be smooth braining rn, but how did you come to this conclusion?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I think it is probable that if koko is wolf that he is TMI reading you as town there, but I also have my pre-existing thoughts about you being a wolf.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> ok, that makes sense! my smooth brain was that i forgot that you had pre existing thoughts about me :p
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Oh, right, that makes sense. I admittedly could be wrong about you... starting to fade on that opinion.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> i was going to ask this earlier but forgot. you mentioned my earlier posts sounding awkward, what about them seemed that way? mostly asking this to have a point of self-reference in the future <3
Click to expand...

I'm glad you asked. In the moment, it just read like... you were giving almost *too much* thought to what you were posting, in a particularly nervous way. It could even mean that you're town actually. But for some reason it didn't seem to match my pre-conceived notion of your energy in the other game. I'll have to mull over it some more.


----------



## Trebek

M Plus 7 said:


> Trebek said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> M Plus 7 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Trebek said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> M Plus 7 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Trebek said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> M Plus 7 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> kyeugh said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> M Plus 7 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> kokorico said:
> 
> 
> 
> FWIW, if I had to pick someone other than Keldeo to townlean it would also be Trebek. In my case it's based in no small part on his #109:
> 
> 
> Trebek said:
> 
> 
> 
> the real question is, if town decides to try to yeet someone today, it will be interesting to see how mafia react around the wagons, since they know how it will affect their popularity and we don’t
> 
> 
> 
> which is really not something I would expect the mafia to want to bring to our attention, except as some sort of mega-weird gambit centring around a popularity-affecting role, or I guess if they thought it would be super-obvious to us (hahahahaha) and wanted to bring it up first for townie points.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> This seems like it will be an important post at some point in the game.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> what do you mean by this?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> At this moment I don't think kokorico and Trebek are both town.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> i may just be smooth braining rn, but how did you come to this conclusion?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I think it is probable that if koko is wolf that he is TMI reading you as town there, but I also have my pre-existing thoughts about you being a wolf.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> ok, that makes sense! my smooth brain was that i forgot that you had pre existing thoughts about me :p
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Oh, right, that makes sense. I admittedly could be wrong about you... starting to fade on that opinion.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> i was going to ask this earlier but forgot. you mentioned my earlier posts sounding awkward, what about them seemed that way? mostly asking this to have a point of self-reference in the future <3
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I'm glad you asked. In the moment, it just read like... you were giving almost *too much* thought to what you were posting, in a particularly nervous way. It could even mean that you're town actually. But for some reason it didn't seem to match my pre-conceived notion of your energy in the other game. I'll have to mull over it some more.
Click to expand...

thanks!

and yeah, i'm still trying to figure out what energy i want to have in these games, so i wouldnt be surprised if reads like this keep happening for a bit :p


----------



## Bluwiikoon

I wish I wasn't so tired rn  It's probably understandable because of the heatwave, but I wanna just make art!!


----------



## Tangrowth

I'm not going to have anything to contribute to the mechanical discussion, am I.


----------



## Trebek

i just want more mechanics to happen so i can actually Think and be Producive >.<


----------



## Tangrowth

Trebek said:


> M Plus 7 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Trebek said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> M Plus 7 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Trebek said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> M Plus 7 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Trebek said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> M Plus 7 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> kyeugh said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> M Plus 7 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> kokorico said:
> 
> 
> 
> FWIW, if I had to pick someone other than Keldeo to townlean it would also be Trebek. In my case it's based in no small part on his #109:
> 
> 
> Trebek said:
> 
> 
> 
> the real question is, if town decides to try to yeet someone today, it will be interesting to see how mafia react around the wagons, since they know how it will affect their popularity and we don’t
> 
> 
> 
> which is really not something I would expect the mafia to want to bring to our attention, except as some sort of mega-weird gambit centring around a popularity-affecting role, or I guess if they thought it would be super-obvious to us (hahahahaha) and wanted to bring it up first for townie points.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> This seems like it will be an important post at some point in the game.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> what do you mean by this?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> At this moment I don't think kokorico and Trebek are both town.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> i may just be smooth braining rn, but how did you come to this conclusion?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I think it is probable that if koko is wolf that he is TMI reading you as town there, but I also have my pre-existing thoughts about you being a wolf.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> ok, that makes sense! my smooth brain was that i forgot that you had pre existing thoughts about me :p
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Oh, right, that makes sense. I admittedly could be wrong about you... starting to fade on that opinion.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> i was going to ask this earlier but forgot. you mentioned my earlier posts sounding awkward, what about them seemed that way? mostly asking this to have a point of self-reference in the future <3
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I'm glad you asked. In the moment, it just read like... you were giving almost *too much* thought to what you were posting, in a particularly nervous way. It could even mean that you're town actually. But for some reason it didn't seem to match my pre-conceived notion of your energy in the other game. I'll have to mull over it some more.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> thanks!
> 
> and yeah, i'm still trying to figure out what energy i want to have in these games, so i wouldnt be surprised if reads like this keep happening for a bit :p
Click to expand...

That's totally fair. What do you think you learned from Cats that you want to apply to your methods here?


----------



## Tangrowth

Okay, maybe I'm seeing where mew was coming from with Blu. The tone and non-related-mafia posts could be theroetically easy enough to replicate as wolf.


----------



## kyeugh




----------



## mewtini

M Plus 7 said:


> Okay, maybe I'm seeing where mew was coming from with Blu. The tone and non-related-mafia posts could be theroetically easy enough to replicate as wolf.


ftr i'm still townreading blu on gut, i just mean that i will probably not be the one to catch him if he continues with the same tone because i will be pocketed lmao


----------



## mewtini

he's in my nebulous 'feels town, watching for content' gang


----------



## Trebek

M Plus 7 said:


> Trebek said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> M Plus 7 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Trebek said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> M Plus 7 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Trebek said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> M Plus 7 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Trebek said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> M Plus 7 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> kyeugh said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> M Plus 7 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> kokorico said:
> 
> 
> 
> FWIW, if I had to pick someone other than Keldeo to townlean it would also be Trebek. In my case it's based in no small part on his #109:
> 
> 
> Trebek said:
> 
> 
> 
> the real question is, if town decides to try to yeet someone today, it will be interesting to see how mafia react around the wagons, since they know how it will affect their popularity and we don’t
> 
> 
> 
> which is really not something I would expect the mafia to want to bring to our attention, except as some sort of mega-weird gambit centring around a popularity-affecting role, or I guess if they thought it would be super-obvious to us (hahahahaha) and wanted to bring it up first for townie points.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> This seems like it will be an important post at some point in the game.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> what do you mean by this?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> At this moment I don't think kokorico and Trebek are both town.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> i may just be smooth braining rn, but how did you come to this conclusion?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I think it is probable that if koko is wolf that he is TMI reading you as town there, but I also have my pre-existing thoughts about you being a wolf.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> ok, that makes sense! my smooth brain was that i forgot that you had pre existing thoughts about me :p
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Oh, right, that makes sense. I admittedly could be wrong about you... starting to fade on that opinion.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> i was going to ask this earlier but forgot. you mentioned my earlier posts sounding awkward, what about them seemed that way? mostly asking this to have a point of self-reference in the future <3
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I'm glad you asked. In the moment, it just read like... you were giving almost *too much* thought to what you were posting, in a particularly nervous way. It could even mean that you're town actually. But for some reason it didn't seem to match my pre-conceived notion of your energy in the other game. I'll have to mull over it some more.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> thanks!
> 
> and yeah, i'm still trying to figure out what energy i want to have in these games, so i wouldnt be surprised if reads like this keep happening for a bit :p
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That's totally fair. What do you think you learned from Cats that you want to apply to your methods here?
Click to expand...

i mentioned this earlier, but i came into this game trying to worry less about the things i was bad at (i.e. early play and personality reads) and just go with the things that make sense

the frustrating thing about the mistakes i made towards the end of Cats is that i dont really know what i would have to change in order for me to not make that same mistaken thought process again


----------



## Tangrowth

kokorico said:


> @M Plus 7 - Nice to see you earlier! Do you have any thoughts on the game so far? What do you think your general strategy is going to be?


@kokorico

Circling back to this.

My general strategy will be close to how I usually play as town. Behavioral reads based on body of work/ISOing and/or occasional posts that strike me as notable. Constant re-assessment. Solving the game via POE and towncore.

If you were looking for mechanical input, I apologize to disappoint. I'd be curious in the answer to your own question here.


----------



## mewtini

kyeugh said:


> View attachment 659


nested quotes are digital topology


----------



## Tangrowth

Trebek said:


> M Plus 7 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Trebek said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> M Plus 7 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Trebek said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> M Plus 7 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Trebek said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> M Plus 7 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Trebek said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> M Plus 7 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> kyeugh said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> M Plus 7 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> kokorico said:
> 
> 
> 
> FWIW, if I had to pick someone other than Keldeo to townlean it would also be Trebek. In my case it's based in no small part on his #109:
> 
> 
> Trebek said:
> 
> 
> 
> the real question is, if town decides to try to yeet someone today, it will be interesting to see how mafia react around the wagons, since they know how it will affect their popularity and we don’t
> 
> 
> 
> which is really not something I would expect the mafia to want to bring to our attention, except as some sort of mega-weird gambit centring around a popularity-affecting role, or I guess if they thought it would be super-obvious to us (hahahahaha) and wanted to bring it up first for townie points.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> This seems like it will be an important post at some point in the game.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> what do you mean by this?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> At this moment I don't think kokorico and Trebek are both town.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> i may just be smooth braining rn, but how did you come to this conclusion?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I think it is probable that if koko is wolf that he is TMI reading you as town there, but I also have my pre-existing thoughts about you being a wolf.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> ok, that makes sense! my smooth brain was that i forgot that you had pre existing thoughts about me :p
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Oh, right, that makes sense. I admittedly could be wrong about you... starting to fade on that opinion.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> i was going to ask this earlier but forgot. you mentioned my earlier posts sounding awkward, what about them seemed that way? mostly asking this to have a point of self-reference in the future <3
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I'm glad you asked. In the moment, it just read like... you were giving almost *too much* thought to what you were posting, in a particularly nervous way. It could even mean that you're town actually. But for some reason it didn't seem to match my pre-conceived notion of your energy in the other game. I'll have to mull over it some more.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> thanks!
> 
> and yeah, i'm still trying to figure out what energy i want to have in these games, so i wouldnt be surprised if reads like this keep happening for a bit :p
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That's totally fair. What do you think you learned from Cats that you want to apply to your methods here?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> i mentioned this earlier, but i came into this game trying to worry less about the things i was bad at (i.e. early play and personality reads) and just go with the things that make sense
> 
> the frustrating thing about the mistakes i made towards the end of Cats is that i dont really know what i would have to change in order for me to not make that same mistaken thought process again
Click to expand...

I appreciate this answer. Let's try to talk more about it later. Fwiw I believe in you though.


----------



## mewtini

Trebek said:


> the frustrating thing about the mistakes i made towards the end of Cats is that i dont really know what i would have to change in order for me to not make that same mistaken thought process again


lol tbf. as we have discussed. i think we just got wrecked in cats for some reasons beyond our control and less because of you screwing up directly (more because of my one (1) mistaken clear)
maybe that is not the way i should be thinking about it, but i like being able to sleep at night,


----------



## kyeugh

Trebek said:


> the frustrating thing about the mistakes i made towards the end of Cats is that i dont really know what i would have to change in order for me to not make that same mistaken thought process again


 don’t play with someone who fullclaims their oneshot role d2 to scum with a roleblocker


----------



## mewtini

omg worst fakeclaim ever


----------



## kyeugh

i am not really feeling particularly bad about anyone in this game yet. i’m glad i have an excuse not to vote today.


----------



## Tangrowth

Ysabel is a strange read. I can't quite make heads or tails there yet.


----------



## Trebek

Trebek said:


> i mentioned this earlier, but i came into this game trying to worry less about the things i was bad at (i.e. early play and personality reads) and just go with the things that make sense


this is not to say that i want to ignore the behavioral portion of the game, because that would be a big yikes. I just want to make sure that my contributions are things that i can be happy with, and then work in tandem with other people's behavioral contributions


----------



## Tangrowth

Ysabel said:


> Mist hasn't contributed very much btw, even though they have posted a few times. Most of their posts have been jokey or have only talked about mechanics. The only helpful post they have made was the one suggesting about ignoring popularity. Which ehh...
> 
> @Mist1422 what are your reads on people btw? Has anything jumped out to you?


Anecdotally, this is absolutely the kind of post that a wolf can make about a wolfmate, heh.


----------



## Tangrowth

I'm reading more of you suspiciously than I feel I should be. Usually I more naturally find town. What is going on?


----------



## kyeugh

i’m having slight mewtini fear because it’s statistically 50% impossible that she’s town again, but also i kind of think if she was a wolf it would completely blindside me. i haven’t seen her as scum maybe ever, and she’s a good player. i have literally no idea what to expect or what i should be looking for. obviously that doesn’t translate into a read of any kind on its own but it’s making me somewhat paranoid and i’m afraid to townlean her even though i kind of want to.


----------



## mewtini

M Plus 7 said:


> Anecdotally, this is absolutely the kind of post that a wolf can make about a wolfmate, heh.


do you actively read that as w/w? or do you just think it's like, a possibility


----------



## Tangrowth

mewtini said:


> M Plus 7 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Anecdotally, this is absolutely the kind of post that a wolf can make about a wolfmate, heh.
> 
> 
> 
> do you actively read that as w/w? or do you just think it's like, a possibility
Click to expand...

I'm not really sure what to make of it. The latter for now.


----------



## Bluwiikoon

Mewtiniiiii I'll never betray you!! (Unless you're wolf and I have to yeet you and cry )

Wolf mewtini would send me reeling so bad. I'd be so stunlocked!


----------



## Tangrowth

I'm going to have to stop soon... I'll throw down a reads list and try to address reads of importance though before I go for the night.


----------



## mewtini

kyeugh said:


> it’s statistically 50% impossible that she’s town again


i mean you voted three townies in a row, so --


kyeugh said:


> i haven’t seen her as scum maybe ever,


you have not! fwiw i've never played as mafia before tbh, since my only real experience so far is tvt (""3p"") / MU practice champs (town) / cats (town)


----------



## Trebek

Bluwiikoon said:


> Mewtiniiiii I'll never betray you!! (Unless you're wolf and I have to yeet you and cry )
> 
> Wolf mewtini would send me reeling so bad. I'd be so stunlocked!


same bro... :(


----------



## Tangrowth

mewtini said:


> kyeugh said:
> 
> 
> 
> it’s statistically 50% impossible that she’s town again
> 
> 
> 
> i mean you voted three townies in a row, so --
> 
> 
> kyeugh said:
> 
> 
> 
> i haven’t seen her as scum maybe ever,
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> you have not! fwiw i've never played as mafia before tbh, since my only real experience so far is tvt (""3p"") / MU practice champs (town) / cats (town)
Click to expand...

Which MU practice champs game did you play?


----------



## kyeugh

Bluwiikoon said:


> Wolf mewtini would send me reeling so bad. I'd be so stunlocked!


me too. unless she’s a really shitty wolf i think i’m going to be flabbergobgastsmacked the first time she flips red no matter what.

btw i feel like my joke cover has been improving each game. this is me improving my town play tbh. now i just need to work on softing pagliacci...


----------



## mewtini

M Plus 7 said:


> Which MU practice champs game did you play?


this one! i subbed in, never got any solid footing, and coasted on my slot having been spewed clear. it was overwhelming lol.


----------



## Keldeo

(I feel like if you want to focus on "getting" "better", you should remember there's always something you could've done better, and try not to blame other people... and if you want to "have" "fun", you should remember that thinking about results is a bottomless pit because there's always something you could've done better, hehe.)

I like MP7's catchup a good amount so far for like fluidity or whatever. I'm probably somewhat seeing what I want to, but I feel like she's displayed more of a sense of openness to feedback than just saying "noted" to people and not actually taking what they say into consideration, or something. (I kind of want to say that this is good enough for today rather than try to develop a read on her more because I feel obligated to read her correctly and that's like, ugh responsibility. ftr, I would not townread her for volume / engagement, or via comparison to her game in Cats.)



M Plus 7 said:


> I think it is probable that if koko is wolf that he is TMI reading you as town there, but I also have my pre-existing thoughts about you being a wolf.


Would agree, I initially thought that meant Trebek was likely town in a mafia kokorico world because I'd compare eir ~static defense of him to me to, say, eir read on myuma in Cats. I guess partners isn't out of the question, but Trebek has also come across as fairly genuine to me in this real-time just now. 

I am hesitant to actually vote kokorico today for certain reasons... I would like to see eir updated thoughts on me/Blu.

*unvote Superjolt*, thinking.


----------



## Tangrowth

mewtini said:


> M Plus 7 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Which MU practice champs game did you play?
> 
> 
> 
> this one! i subbed in, never got any solid footing, and coasted on my slot having been spewed clear. it was overwhelming lol.
Click to expand...

Thanks, I'll go take a look for fun later, hehe.


----------



## kyeugh

mewtini said:


> i mean you voted three townies in a row, so --


 this is statistics. cold hard math, which is a kind of science (facts). no ad hom allowed.


----------



## Tangrowth

Keldeo said:


> (I feel like if you want to focus on "getting" "better", you should remember there's always something you could've done better, and try not to blame other people... and if you want to "have" "fun", you should remember that thinking about results is a bottomless pit because there's always something you could've done better, hehe.)
> 
> I like MP7's catchup a good amount so far for like fluidity or whatever. I'm probably somewhat seeing what I want to, but I feel like she's displayed more of a sense of openness to feedback than just saying "noted" to people and not actually taking what they say into consideration, or something. (I kind of want to say that this is good enough for today rather than try to develop a read on her more because I feel obligated to read her correctly and that's like, ugh responsibility. ftr, I would not townread her for volume / engagement, or via comparison to her game in Cats.)
> 
> 
> 
> M Plus 7 said:
> 
> 
> 
> I think it is probable that if koko is wolf that he is TMI reading you as town there, but I also have my pre-existing thoughts about you being a wolf.
> 
> 
> 
> Would agree, I initially thought that meant Trebek was likely town in a mafia kokorico world because I'd compare eir ~static defense of him to me to, say, eir read on myuma in Cats. I guess partners isn't out of the question, but Trebek has also come across as fairly genuine to me in this real-time just now.
> 
> I am hesitant to actually vote kokorico today for certain reasons... I would like to see eir updated thoughts on me/Blu.
> 
> *unvote Superjolt*, thinking.
Click to expand...

Wow, what a mood that underlined thing is.

What do you mean by probably somewhat seeing what you want to exactly?


----------



## Keldeo

M Plus 7 said:


> What do you mean by probably somewhat seeing what you want to exactly?


I'm wary of confirmation bias due to wanting to find you as town... struggling to word it. I want what I'm seeing to actually make you town, even though maybe it doesn't, or maybe I'm not actually seeing it.


----------



## Tangrowth

Keldeo said:


> M Plus 7 said:
> 
> 
> 
> What do you mean by probably somewhat seeing what you want to exactly?
> 
> 
> 
> I'm wary of confirmation bias due to wanting to find you as town... struggling to word it. I want what I'm seeing to actually make you town, even though maybe it doesn't, or maybe I'm not actually seeing it.
Click to expand...

At least we're in the same boat. Let's solve each other d3.


----------



## Tangrowth

Well... caught up, but towards the end there I was definitely reading and lacking clarity, I'm going to have to try to form better reads later. Ugh. Vibes-based reads list incoming nonetheless.


----------



## kyeugh

kyeugh said:


> i am not really feeling particularly bad about anyone in this game yet. i’m glad i have an excuse not to vote today.


 you know, i was going to try to post some kind of read list before going to bed, but i think actually i’m not even feeling particularly good about anyone, either. does anyone have any town reads they feel reasonably good about?


----------



## Tangrowth

kyeugh said:


> kyeugh said:
> 
> 
> 
> i am not really feeling particularly bad about anyone in this game yet. i’m glad i have an excuse not to vote today.
> 
> 
> 
> you know, i was going to try to post some kind of read list before going to bed, but i think actually i’m not even feeling particularly good about anyone, either. does anyone have any town reads they feel reasonably good about?
Click to expand...

Right now I would never d1 yeet Keldeo, mewtini, koko, and Blu.


----------



## Keldeo

kyeugh said:


> kyeugh said:
> 
> 
> 
> i am not really feeling particularly bad about anyone in this game yet. i’m glad i have an excuse not to vote today.
> 
> 
> 
> you know, i was going to try to post some kind of read list before going to bed, but i think actually i’m not even feeling particularly good about anyone, either. does anyone have any town reads they feel reasonably good about?
Click to expand...

I actually feel pretty good about townreading mewtini, MP7 (for now tm), and Blu, if I disregard tinfoil about technically not having seen any of their mafia games. I don't think I've talked about that Blu read, he has just... continued to read as super earnest and open to me. 

I think the idea that you're town for being dissed is fine, but I don't have a strong feeling based on your posts.

I need to reread sande / Ysabel but they were my other like, interim "tonal memes read" townreads.


----------



## Bluwiikoon

I'm down for snom nap pile if everyone else is  My brain isn't producing many intelligent thoughts right now but I feel good about this game and more comfortable than I did around the end of Cats. I'll try to pick a random target to ISO later if I wake up with spare time to do stuff!


----------



## Keldeo

M Plus 7 said:


> Right now I would never d1 yeet Keldeo, mewtini, koko, and Blu.


Can you tell me more about koko? Disregard if you're going to go into em in your readslist.


----------



## Tangrowth

Actually, I'm not sure about koko, I'm having a brain vs. gut fight there. Brain thinks ehhh, gut likes.


----------



## mewtini

M Plus 7 said:


> Right now I would never d1 yeet Keldeo, mewtini, koko, and Blu.


isn't your vote on koko right now? or did i miss a wagon switch


----------



## Tangrowth

Keldeo said:


> kyeugh said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> kyeugh said:
> 
> 
> 
> i am not really feeling particularly bad about anyone in this game yet. i’m glad i have an excuse not to vote today.
> 
> 
> 
> you know, i was going to try to post some kind of read list before going to bed, but i think actually i’m not even feeling particularly good about anyone, either. does anyone have any town reads they feel reasonably good about?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I actually feel pretty good about townreading mewtini, MP7 (for now tm), and Blu, if I disregard tinfoil about technically not having seen any of their mafia games. I don't think I've talked about that Blu read, he has just... continued to read as super earnest and open to me.
> 
> I think the idea that you're town for being dissed is fine, but I don't have a strong feeling based on your posts.
> 
> I need to reread sande / Ysabel but they were my other like, interim "tonal memes read" townreads.
Click to expand...

I am a fan of us basically mindmelding fwiw.


----------



## Tangrowth

mewtini said:


> M Plus 7 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Right now I would never d1 yeet Keldeo, mewtini, koko, and Blu.
> 
> 
> 
> isn't your vote on koko right now? or did i miss a wagon switch
Click to expand...

I forgot to switch it off after catching up, thank you. 

*unvote*


----------



## Trebek

Keldeo said:


> I actually feel pretty good about townreading mewtini, MP7 (for now tm), and Blu


i think this is about where i am at with my limited vibes. i may be a little confbiased about mewt bc i just want her to be town lol, but i do really like the vibes im getting from her, as well as Blu. I also really like MP7's reads on my posts


----------



## Bluwiikoon

@IndigoEmmy Do lynches appease the Snom god (blood sacrifice! blood sacrifice!)


----------



## Keldeo

Keldeo said:


> kyeugh said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> kyeugh said:
> 
> 
> 
> i am not really feeling particularly bad about anyone in this game yet. i’m glad i have an excuse not to vote today.
> 
> 
> 
> you know, i was going to try to post some kind of read list before going to bed, but i think actually i’m not even feeling particularly good about anyone, either. does anyone have any town reads they feel reasonably good about?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I actually feel pretty good about townreading mewtini, MP7 (for now tm), and Blu, if I disregard tinfoil about technically not having seen any of their mafia games. I don't think I've talked about that Blu read, he has just... continued to read as super earnest and open to me.
> 
> I think the idea that you're town for being dissed is fine, but I don't have a strong feeling based on your posts.
> 
> I need to reread sande / Ysabel but they were my other like, interim "tonal memes read" townreads.
Click to expand...

Oh, it was a fake read in Cats, but I actually do think Skylar is a little more agenday as mafia. Throwing away her vote today and not really expressing strong reads today would somewhat go against that...


----------



## Tangrowth

Keldeo said:


> M Plus 7 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Right now I would never d1 yeet Keldeo, mewtini, koko, and Blu.
> 
> 
> 
> Can you tell me more about koko? Disregard if you're going to go into em in your readslist.
Click to expand...

Let me see if I can ISO quickly and explain it better actually. I'm in a real conflict.


----------



## Keldeo

Trebek said:


> Keldeo said:
> 
> 
> 
> I actually feel pretty good about townreading mewtini, MP7 (for now tm), and Blu
> 
> 
> 
> i think this is about where i am at with my limited vibes. i may be a little confbiased about mewt bc i just want her to be town lol, but i do really like the vibes im getting from her, as well as Blu. I also really like MP7's reads on my posts
Click to expand...

Could you expand a little more on these? What do you mean with the MP7 read in particular?


----------



## Tangrowth

M Plus 7 said:


> Keldeo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> M Plus 7 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Right now I would never d1 yeet Keldeo, mewtini, koko, and Blu.
> 
> 
> 
> Can you tell me more about koko? Disregard if you're going to go into em in your readslist.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Let me see if I can ISO quickly and explain it better actually. I'm in a real conflict.
Click to expand...

Ugh, my brain hurts.


----------



## Bluwiikoon

MP7 if you really need a sleep don't put yourself at risk for us! Rest helps you brain better later on


----------



## kyeugh

Keldeo said:


> I think the idea that you're town for being dissed is fine, but I don't have a strong feeling based on your posts.


 i forget if i’ve said this already but i kind of disagree with this. while the diss role could be mafia for sure, i don’t think it’s right to assume that it’s PROBABLY mafia to the point that we’re building reads on other people from it. i’m all for getting townleaned but i don’t want it to be built on pillars of sand and that’s how i kind of feel when a bunch of people’s reads are informed by it. 

it sounds like most of you guys are in agreement about keldeo/mewtini/mp7/blu? hmm. maybe i’ll reread the thread tomorrow… if you guys all see it, maybe i’m missing something.


----------



## Tangrowth

Bluwiikoon said:


> MP7 if you really need a sleep don't put yourself at risk for us! Rest helps you brain better later on


But I need to solve the game! XD


----------



## Tangrowth

kyeugh said:


> Keldeo said:
> 
> 
> 
> I think the idea that you're town for being dissed is fine, but I don't have a strong feeling based on your posts.
> 
> 
> 
> i forget if i’ve said this already but i kind of disagree with this. while the diss role could be mafia for sure, i don’t think it’s right to assume that it’s PROBABLY mafia to the point that we’re building reads on other people from it. i’m all for getting townleaned but i don’t want it to be built on pillars of sand and that’s how i kind of feel when a bunch of people’s reads are informed by it.
> 
> it sounds like most of you guys are in agreement about keldeo/mewtini/mp7/blu? hmm. maybe i’ll reread the thread tomorrow… if you guys all see it, maybe i’m missing something.
Click to expand...

I would advise against this... I actively welcome reads dissent discussions. Please let me know if you disagree on any of my reads for sure!


----------



## Tangrowth

M Plus 7 said:


> Bluwiikoon said:
> 
> 
> 
> MP7 if you really need a sleep don't put yourself at risk for us! Rest helps you brain better later on
> 
> 
> 
> But I need to solve the game! XD
Click to expand...

I'm just really not a "brain works well at evening" sort of person, it's fine really.


----------



## Trebek

Keldeo said:


> Trebek said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Keldeo said:
> 
> 
> 
> I actually feel pretty good about townreading mewtini, MP7 (for now tm), and Blu
> 
> 
> 
> i think this is about where i am at with my limited vibes. i may be a little confbiased about mewt bc i just want her to be town lol, but i do really like the vibes im getting from her, as well as Blu. I also really like MP7's reads on my posts
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Could you expand a little more on these? What do you mean with the MP7 read in particular?
Click to expand...

so actually, after thinking about it a bit more, i realized that my origional reasoning for townleaning MP7 is actually NAI: i think i am just subconsciously associating "good logical processes" with "towny play"

with that in mind, i still have good vibes about her, theyre just much less describable than i origonally thought.


----------



## mewtini

idrk what my townreads are atm to be honest, but i'll remark that i don't think mp7 sounds strictly different from how she did in cats - even though in a vacuum i definitely call her tone/analysis towny, i think the main difference is just the amount of time she's been here, right?


----------



## mewtini

mewtini said:


> idrk what my townreads are atm to be honest


by which i mean: i started writing out a list and it was pretty much everyone who posted minus like, koko/jolt/ysabel because i am still


----------



## Keldeo

MP, I've vaguely thought about the idea that the game is literally not solvable today and so I should take it easy because of the number of players who've made very few content posts for irl or other reasons, hehe.

I actually think the most consensus townread, speaking generally and not just of the people who are in the thread right now, is mewtini, is that right?



kyeugh said:


> Keldeo said:
> 
> 
> 
> I think the idea that you're town for being dissed is fine, but I don't have a strong feeling based on your posts.
> 
> 
> 
> i forget if i’ve said this already but i kind of disagree with this. while the diss role could be mafia for sure, i don’t think it’s right to assume that it’s PROBABLY mafia to the point that we’re building reads on other people from it. i’m all for getting townleaned but i don’t want it to be built on pillars of sand and that’s how i kind of feel when a bunch of people’s reads are informed by it.
> 
> it sounds like most of you guys are in agreement about keldeo/mewtini/mp7/blu? hmm. maybe i’ll reread the thread tomorrow… if you guys all see it, maybe i’m missing something.
Click to expand...

That's fair. You repeatedly speaking against it for these mechanical considerations might be +town points anyway heh. 

(I say this as someone who pushes back on townreads of me for incorrect reasons to get cred as either alignment (thus Ysabel's townread on me for pushing back against koko's townread of me is for incorrect reasons!))


----------



## Tangrowth

Trebek said:


> Keldeo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Trebek said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Keldeo said:
> 
> 
> 
> I actually feel pretty good about townreading mewtini, MP7 (for now tm), and Blu
> 
> 
> 
> i think this is about where i am at with my limited vibes. i may be a little confbiased about mewt bc i just want her to be town lol, but i do really like the vibes im getting from her, as well as Blu. I also really like MP7's reads on my posts
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Could you expand a little more on these? What do you mean with the MP7 read in particular?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> so actually, after thinking about it a bit more, i realized that my origional reasoning for townleaning MP7 is actually NAI: i think i am just subconsciously associating "good logical processes" with "towny play"
> 
> with that in mind, i still have good vibes about her, theyre just much less describable than i origonally thought.
Click to expand...

What specifically made you realize this?


----------



## Tangrowth

mewtini said:


> mewtini said:
> 
> 
> 
> idrk what my townreads are atm to be honest
> 
> 
> 
> by which i mean: i started writing out a list and it was pretty much everyone who posted minus like, koko/jolt/ysabel because i am still
Click to expand...

I mean... sorting by post count right now wouldn't be the most terrible thing, but eh. What do you think of Trebek?


----------



## Tangrowth

Keldeo said:


> MP, I've vaguely thought about the idea that the game is literally not solvable today and so I should take it easy because of the number of players who've made very few content posts for irl or other reasons, hehe.


But... yeah, okay, you're probably right, but I feel too turbulent about my reads right now for comfort.


----------



## kyeugh

M Plus 7 said:


> I would advise against this... I actively welcome reads dissent discussions. Please let me know if you disagree on any of my reads for sure!


 it’s not really that i actually disagree so much as that nothing is really standing out to me in either direction so far? everything just feels grey. i don’t feel like i know you well enough to have a read yet, keldeo/mewt both feel to me like they could still be within their wolf ranges, and blu is sitting firmly at null for me—i definitely think he could be a good actor, and his iso was a little strange to me. but none of this actually approaches a scumlean, it’s just holding me back from a townlean either. ambivalence is in da house tonight, everybody just have a good time


----------



## Tangrowth

The small amount of players also means we have less margin of error insofar as yeets are concerned... not trying to stress anyone out though.


----------



## Trebek

Keldeo said:


> mewtini, is that right?


there are 3 constants in life

death
taxes
mewtini being towncore


----------



## Tangrowth

kyeugh said:


> M Plus 7 said:
> 
> 
> 
> I would advise against this... I actively welcome reads dissent discussions. Please let me know if you disagree on any of my reads for sure!
> 
> 
> 
> it’s not really that i actually disagree so much as that nothing is really standing out to me in either direction so far? everything just feels grey. i don’t feel like i know you well enough to have a read yet, keldeo/mewt both feel to me like they could still be within their wolf ranges, and blu is sitting firmly at null for me—i definitely think he could be a good actor, and his iso was a little strange to me. but none of this actually approaches a scumlean, it’s just holding me back from a townlean either. ambivalence is in da house tonight, everybody just have a good time
Click to expand...

What makes you think Keldeo and mewtini are within wolf range?

Can you elaborate on what was strange about Blu's ISO?


----------



## Tangrowth

Actually, I may give up and do a reads list with a fresh perspective in the morning, sigh. But I don't want to! I'll at least do the koko thing.


----------



## Keldeo

mewtini said:


> idrk what my townreads are atm to be honest, but i'll remark that i don't think mp7 sounds strictly different from how she did in cats - even though in a vacuum i definitely call her tone/analysis towny, i think the main difference is just the amount of time she's been here, right?





kyeugh said:


> it’s not really that i actually disagree so much as that nothing is really standing out to me in either direction so far? everything just feels grey. i don’t feel like i know you well enough to have a read yet, keldeo/mewt both feel to me like they could still be within their wolf ranges, and blu is sitting firmly at null for me—i definitely think he could be a good actor, and his iso was a little strange to me. but none of this actually approaches a scumlean, it’s just holding me back from a townlean either. ambivalence is in da house tonight, everybody just have a good time


These are probably fair but also, hmm... I guess I'm magnifying my own confidence / disregarding things, because if I start to let myself talk myself out of those reads, I don't really have anything confident either, hehe.

What was strange about Blu's ISO, kyeugh?


----------



## Tangrowth

Keldeo said:


> mewtini said:
> 
> 
> 
> idrk what my townreads are atm to be honest, but i'll remark that i don't think mp7 sounds strictly different from how she did in cats - even though in a vacuum i definitely call her tone/analysis towny, i think the main difference is just the amount of time she's been here, right?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> kyeugh said:
> 
> 
> 
> it’s not really that i actually disagree so much as that nothing is really standing out to me in either direction so far? everything just feels grey. i don’t feel like i know you well enough to have a read yet, keldeo/mewt both feel to me like they could still be within their wolf ranges, and blu is sitting firmly at null for me—i definitely think he could be a good actor, and his iso was a little strange to me. but none of this actually approaches a scumlean, it’s just holding me back from a townlean either. ambivalence is in da house tonight, everybody just have a good time
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> These are probably fair but also, hmm... I guess I'm magnifying my own confidence / disregarding things, because if I start to let myself talk myself out of those reads, I don't really have anything confident either, hehe.
> 
> What was strange about Blu's ISO, kyeugh?
Click to expand...

Look at that.


----------



## mewtini

M Plus 7 said:


> What do you think of Trebek?


so i'm kind of like ... wrestling with a lot of things about him, like

- i agree that his posting could seem tonally awkward, but i think it's not far off from his natural speech patterns. (but then it's maybe confbias because i know him and want him to be town, but _then_, ... etc). in particular his entrance post, that you pointed out as stilted, is a pretty run of the mill joke from him ime
- i've been doing a lot of metareading but that doesn't really work for him, since he barely posted d1 of cats (his first forum mafia game) because he's more comfortable with mechspec
- i think he sounded earnest enough in like, 495, and also i kind of liked that he asked why you thought his posting sounded stilted though that is probably NAI

i still don't really want to vote him today tbh because i think either way i want to see him talk mechanics before deciding anything


----------



## Trebek

M Plus 7 said:


> Trebek said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Keldeo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Trebek said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Keldeo said:
> 
> 
> 
> I actually feel pretty good about townreading mewtini, MP7 (for now tm), and Blu
> 
> 
> 
> i think this is about where i am at with my limited vibes. i may be a little confbiased about mewt bc i just want her to be town lol, but i do really like the vibes im getting from her, as well as Blu. I also really like MP7's reads on my posts
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Could you expand a little more on these? What do you mean with the MP7 read in particular?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> so actually, after thinking about it a bit more, i realized that my origional reasoning for townleaning MP7 is actually NAI: i think i am just subconsciously associating "good logical processes" with "towny play"
> 
> with that in mind, i still have good vibes about her, theyre just much less describable than i origonally thought.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> What specifically made you realize this?
Click to expand...

not a specific thing that made me realize, more just a general "trebek makes posts before thinking them through all the way bc otherwise he never posts and thats worse"


----------



## mewtini

mewtini said:


> M Plus 7 said:
> 
> 
> 
> What do you think of Trebek?
> 
> 
> 
> so i'm kind of like ... wrestling with a lot of things about him, like
> 
> - i agree that his posting could seem tonally awkward, but i think it's not far off from his natural speech patterns. (but then it's maybe confbias because i know him and want him to be town, but _then_, ... etc). in particular his entrance post, that you pointed out as stilted, is a pretty run of the mill joke from him ime
> - i've been doing a lot of metareading but that doesn't really work for him, since he barely posted d1 of cats (his first forum mafia game) because he's more comfortable with mechspec
> - i think he sounded earnest enough in like, 495, and also i kind of liked that he asked why you thought his posting sounded stilted though that is probably NAI
> 
> i still don't really want to vote him today tbh because i think either way i want to see him talk mechanics before deciding anything
Click to expand...

also the "he overthinks his posts" thing was exactly what made me worried about him in cats but he ended up being town so. i think he might just be self-conscious in that way as either alignment maybe, is my guess


----------



## Tangrowth

I'm not sure why... but my brain thinks that koko's posts about Blu and Keldeo each read like potential TMI enough to consider them vote-worthy. 

But as I continued catching up beyond that, my gut liked them more, especially in posts #288 onward. Upon re-examination, this feeling still stands. There's something that reads genuine about it... like, small sample size warning and also I probably should not rely on my own pre-conceived notions of Cats because of my time restrictions, but something about the body of work reads less agenda-y than it did in Cats. I can't put my finger on why though.


----------



## Tangrowth

M Plus 7 said:


> I'm not sure why... but my brain thinks that koko's posts about Blu and Keldeo each read like potential TMI enough to consider them vote-worthy.
> 
> But as I continued catching up beyond that, my gut liked them more, especially in posts #288 onward. Upon re-examination, this feeling still stands. There's something that reads genuine about it... like, small sample size warning and also I probably should not rely on my own pre-conceived notions of Cats because of my time restrictions, but something about the body of work reads less agenda-y than it did in Cats. I can't put my finger on why though.


Let me see if I can dig further and find something in those posts specifically that I can better explain.


----------



## mewtini

M Plus 7 said:


> my brain thinks that koko's posts about Blu and Keldeo each read like potential TMI enough to consider them vote-worthy


i think i am kind of mindmelding with this post
i suck at reading koko in general tbh but i'm on a high from correctly tonereading them in cats (where i continuously felt e was scummy), so i'll just nullvibe here for a bit until further notice since i do feel different about em somehow


----------



## Tangrowth

mewtini said:


> M Plus 7 said:
> 
> 
> 
> What do you think of Trebek?
> 
> 
> 
> so i'm kind of like ... wrestling with a lot of things about him, like
> 
> - i agree that his posting could seem tonally awkward, but i think it's not far off from his natural speech patterns. (but then it's maybe confbias because i know him and want him to be town, but _then_, ... etc). in particular his entrance post, that you pointed out as stilted, is a pretty run of the mill joke from him ime
> - i've been doing a lot of metareading but that doesn't really work for him, since he barely posted d1 of cats (his first forum mafia game) because he's more comfortable with mechspec
> - i think he sounded earnest enough in like, 495, and also i kind of liked that he asked why you thought his posting sounded stilted though that is probably NAI
> 
> i still don't really want to vote him today tbh because i think either way i want to see him talk mechanics before deciding anything
Click to expand...

This is absolutely helpful, thank you.


----------



## Tangrowth

Eh, shrug, I suppose koko can be in the maybe consider yeeting today pile but probably can solve them later so ???

I'll try it again tomorrow.


----------



## kyeugh

M Plus 7 said:


> What makes you think Keldeo and mewtini are within wolf range?
> 
> Can you elaborate on what was strange about Blu's ISO?


 for keldeo, i guess mostly he looked at least this good d1 in cats, right? and there was way more posting there. i’m not really comparing his behavior on a specific qualitative level here, but just broadly i don’t think he’s really done enough to push the needle on my read yet. this all could easily be coming from w!keldeo so far.

as for mewt, i have no idea what her wolf game looks like so i’m kind of just paranoid. obviously that’s not really evidence but i also don’t want to put her in my town pile based on this fairly noncommittal posting when i believe she‘s good enough to be posting all this as a wolf. i think if i decide i’m townreading her, i’ll probably never change my mind, so i’m trying to stay wary.

to be clear when i referred to blu’s iso i meant his iso on trebek. i guess i just felt a little odd about an iso that serially attributes praise/good vibes to each post. i can’t really make heads or tails of my feelings about it.


----------



## mewtini

kyeugh said:


> to be clear when i referred to blu’s iso i meant his iso on trebek. i guess i just felt a little odd about an iso that serially attributes praise/good vibes to each post. i can’t really make heads or tails of my feelings about it.


i personally don't think it makes sense for it to be a w/w interaction if you were being serious about that earlier


----------



## mewtini

/ i think the attributing praise post-by-post is a very classic blu move, heh


----------



## kyeugh

mewtini said:


> / i think the attributing praise post-by-post is a very classic blu move, heh


 how come?


----------



## Tangrowth

*d1 MP7 vibes-based reads*

Never yeet today
Keldeo_ -- I see no cause for concern, but he's Keldeo... but also screw tinfoil and I believe I can confidently figure him out by d3_
mewtini -- _Reminds me of Cats mew, seems genuinely solvey enough, she's fine_

Almost never yeet today
Blu -- _Tone is absolutely impeccable, gut loved entrance post and subsequent stream, mindmeld with Keldeo, need to pressure for more reads but OK for now_

Probably do not yeet today
sande -- _Tone is good, content is ~fine, needs some pressure at some point and I would like to interact with, but riding with this for now_

Ughhh maybe 1 wolf here but I'm not sure I want to yeet?
koko -- _conflicted feelings, reads of Blu and Keldeo read like TMI, but gut likes recent posting, probably can solve with more data_
Trebek -- _conflicted feelings, gut very much disliked at first, but eased after time and interactions, also considering mew's thoughts here_

Upper POE - could yeet today but not enthusiastically
kyeugh -- _hard to discern given lack of reads, need more data, taking Keldeo's point re: agenda into consideration
Mist -- eh, no reason to townread at all really, but probably can clear with more time_
Ysabel -- _certain reads seem forced, need to interact with for more data_
Julia -- _new player, not ideal for d1 yeet, but *shrug*_

POE - totally okay with yeet today 
Ultracool -- _effectively null slot, objectively a good play_
Superjolt -- _major contrast to posts that I saw in Cats, lacking substance, agree with Keldeo thoughts_

Consequently, I want to add pressure here.

*Superjolt*


----------



## Tangrowth

Alright, I'm out, be back prior to EoD though. glgl


----------



## mewtini

kyeugh said:


> mewtini said:
> 
> 
> 
> / i think the attributing praise post-by-post is a very classic blu move, heh
> 
> 
> 
> how come?
Click to expand...

i mean, he hasn't really been doing isoing or anything up until now so i guess maybe that's the 'weird' part but. given his general good vibes attitude inthread and habits of like, kind of lavishing praise on the players he likes, i think it makes sense he'd do the iso-thing to someone he was townreading once he got to the comfort level of trying to do post analysis beyond 'general vibes.' i think the progression just makes sense to me wrt his personality


----------



## Keldeo

@M Plus 7 questions for when you get back 

Am I in your top tier because you're actively townreading me or because you just don't want to kill me today? If the former, can you talk 
a bit about why? I kind of expected you to be more paranoid of me. 

Which of Ysabel's reads seem forced to you? 

Can you clarify what you mean when you say koko seemed to be TMIing Blu, since you're townreading Blu but e had a scumread / batted down townreads on Blu?


----------



## Keldeo

*vote Mr. Ultracool* I guess

Superjolt hedges in most of his takes in #369 (mewtini and Ysabel are the only ones without some sort of qualifier). I kind of think this is a him thing regardless of his alignment, he wasn't able to say much more confidently after a bit more posting in early Cats... I appreciate him giving the thoughts at least and want to unvote because let's give him another day here.


----------



## mewtini

i'm actually going to go to sleep now, lol. not sure if i'll be back before EoD because i have stuff from like, 12 until 3pm/EoD and it's like 4am so who knows if i'll get up significantly earlier tbh. so i'll vibe on *superjolt* (still irked by his reads before and the tonal difference between those and the catsposting) and hopefully make it back in time for everything


----------



## mewtini

i could go for uc for the inactivity but i feel like that's a cop out


----------



## Keldeo

Keldeo said:


> Superjolt hedges in most of his takes in #369 (mewtini and Ysabel are the only ones without some sort of qualifier). I kind of think this is a him thing regardless of his alignment, he wasn't able to say much more confidently after a bit more posting in early Cats... I appreciate him giving the thoughts at least and want to unvote because let's give him another day here.


That posted early. The let's give him another day here is like... I voted him for a reason, yeah, but I feel bad because he seemed to have had time issues today and I feel like maybe I could get there with another day? I dunno.


----------



## kyeugh

mewtini said:


> kyeugh said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> mewtini said:
> 
> 
> 
> / i think the attributing praise post-by-post is a very classic blu move, heh
> 
> 
> 
> how come?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> i mean, he hasn't really been doing isoing or anything up until now so i guess maybe that's the 'weird' part but. given his general good vibes attitude inthread and habits of like, kind of lavishing praise on the players he likes, i think it makes sense he'd do the iso-thing to someone he was townreading once he got to the comfort level of trying to do post analysis beyond 'general vibes.' i think the progression just makes sense to me wrt his personality
Click to expand...

 i would agree that he’s nice to players, but i don’t think it applies to his reads or iso. my impression of him last game was that he was actually pretty waffly on all of his reads, even his one for keldeo who he basically knew had to be scum 100%. going off that, i would’ve expected more variety in reaction from his iso. that’s not to say it was scummy but it does strike me as a bit off character.


----------



## mewtini

kyeugh said:


> i don’t think it applies to his reads or iso. my impression of him last game was that he was actually pretty waffly on all of his reads, even his one for keldeo who he basically knew had to be scum 100%


i forgot about the keldeo thing tbh, that's a fair point


----------



## mewtini

then again i'm not reading the trebek iso as super committal either - not in the way that he is with the "if___ is scum, " comments. maybe i am biased because i agreed with him on a fair amount of it though.


----------



## mewtini

(also i kinda think he's said he's making an effort to be less wishywashy?)


----------



## Trebek

mewtini said:


> (also i kinda think he's said he's making an effort to be less wishywashy?)


that was the vibe i got as well? although i dont remember if he actually officially said it lmao


----------



## mewtini

i think his self-awareness of having that flaw is why i assume it's a part of his game he's working on:


Bluwiikoon said:


> I realised during Cats game especially that committing to things is scary to me for some reason LOL. But all I can do is try my best!


----------



## Trebek

so while i will be around for EoD, 100% stuffs gonna happenen before i wake up, so ill just throw my vote for *mr ultracool* in now

partially bc my gut tells me that the inactive lynch is better and that we can get more out of keeping superjolt alive for another day (as opposed to UC)

and partially because unless im forgetting the vote count this helps to even up the wagons, and even is fun :p


----------



## Keldeo

Ah, koko, did you make anything more of Ysabel after that extended dialogue that you had? 

@JuliaTheSeaTurtleQueen @Mr. Ultracool it would be really cool to hear any of your thoughts if you're here before the deadline!


----------



## Bluwiikoon

I wake up and have to peel myself off a sweaty bed and I'm like  Heatwave has transmutated me into sweat!

I'll probably get a drink and possibly an eat before I activate my brain engines (maybe even... more sleep!), but again, I understand apprehension around my ISO of Trebek. I just honestly have a hard time parsing any of his posts as wolfy, though maybe that's a me thing and I'll end up really positive about anyone I comment on. I try to be super positive and encouraging when I comment on art for instance, so could be a bad habit bleeding through. xD I'll try to do more ISOs when I can so people can assess my character a bit more! And then hopefully I will have contributed more and not feel like sponge brain


----------



## qenya

Keldeo said:


> @kokorico, could you give updated reads on me and Blu?





Keldeo said:


> I would like to see eir updated thoughts on me/Blu.


Steady on! I do need to sleep from time to time :P

Regarding you, I concede I probably jumped to my conclusion a bit too quickly, out of excitability / wanting to demonstrate my read / feeling like 48h was shorter than it is, and on reflection you were probably right to find it odd. Sorry about that. But so far you still haven't actually displayed the "combativeness" I mentioned towards anyone other than me, or done anything else that pings me as scummy, and you've been engaging with the game, trying to figure things out and presenting your thoughts in real time. So I still consider you to be at the top of my town pile.

Blu, I'm wavering back and forth on. His bubbliness certainly isn't pinging me as particularly town-indicative, as it seems to be for almost anyone else, and I have the impression that he pivoted into mechanical talk much sooner in Cats (2019) than he is here. But equally, I can't really pin down anything solid that indicates scumplay. I also spotted a couple of things that, if he's town, might be a part of an attempt to set up a gambit for later - I'll avoid spoiling that. I would still dearly love to know what his reasoning was for asking the question in #121: both mewt and I have now asked him on separate occasions, but unless I missed it I don't think he ever responded.

(I know some other people asked me things overnight too, but I gotta go eat something. I promise to come back to them later.)


----------



## qenya

kokorico said:


> Seshas said:
> 
> 
> 
> mewtini votes Seshas [->1] (#14)
> *Mist1422 votes Seshas [->2] (#19)*
> mewtini votes Seshas -> Eifie [1->1] (#63)
> Trebek votes Stealth Rock [->1] (#111)
> Trebek votes Stealth Rock -> mewtini [0->1] (#216)
> Trebek unvotes mewtini [0->] (#217)
> mewtini votes Eifie -> kyeugh [0->1] (#219)
> _mewtini unvotes kyeugh [0->] (#223)_
> Trebek votes Seshas [->2] (#226)
> _Trebek unvotes Seshas [1->] (#243)_
> *Keldeo votes Superjolt [->1] (#317)*
> 
> 
> 
> Hey Seshas, I get that the bold entries are active votes, but is there any meaning to the italicised ones?
Click to expand...

I had a dream last night that Seshas replied to say that, duh, the italic votes were cast in Italy. I don't really know what that says about my subconscious. Or mewt and Trebek's holiday plans.


----------



## Bluwiikoon

Hi koko!  Oh, was 121 the uhhh question about a trapping role? (Oh god how do I go to specific numbers on mobile)

I think because I was thinking about it in terms of Pokémon mechanics (stealth rocks! Sneaky pebbles!) my brain internally parsed it as different for some reason. Trapping/recoil role makes sense as a thing that exists but I also didn't know the specific name for it ^^; Big sponge brain moment!


----------



## Zori

_Votecount (#590):_
*Superjolt* | 3 | Ysabel (#362), M Plus 7 (#570), mewtini (#575)
Mr. Ultracool | 2 | Keldeo (#574), Trebek (#584)



Spoiler: Vote History



Trebek votes mewtini [->1] (#216)
Trebek unvotes mewtini [0->] (#217)
mewtini votes kyeugh [->1] (#219)
mewtini unvotes kyeugh [0->] (#223)
Keldeo votes Superjolt [->1] (#317)
*Ysabel votes Superjolt [->2] (#362)*
M Plus 7 votes Trebek [->1] (#407)
M Plus 7 votes Trebek -> kokorico [0->1] (#467)
Keldeo unvotes Superjolt [1->] (#517)
M Plus 7 unvotes kokorico [0->] (#532)
*M Plus 7 votes Superjolt [->2] (#570)
Keldeo votes Mr. Ultracool [->1] (#574)
mewtini votes Superjolt [->3] (#575)
Trebek votes Mr. Ultracool [->2] (#584)*


----------



## Ys_

I'm still catching up but




__





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Here is a game where I was town. Unfortunately the ones where I was mafia and SK was lost due to Curse and Twitch things, but thought it could help you if you have the time @Keldeo and whomever else wants to check. This one was my latest game anyway. I'm Mystical there.


----------



## Novae

M Plus 7 said:


> Mist1422 said:
> 
> 
> 
> see every time someone calls zoruas scum I get sad because they are cute!!! and i wanna be a zorua!!! but sadly i had to roll town and enjoy it
> 
> 
> 
> Talk to me more about your alignment preferences and meta if you don't mind.
Click to expand...

this is straightforward I can take this

I generally like towning more because there’s less external pressure and I’m kinda better at it


----------



## Novae

Unfortunately I lost motivation yesterday because of external factors and am now working an extra day because my mom made me ask, so


----------



## qenya

M Plus 7 said:


> kokorico said:
> 
> 
> 
> @M Plus 7 - Nice to see you earlier! Do you have any thoughts on the game so far? What do you think your general strategy is going to be?
> 
> 
> 
> @kokorico
> 
> Circling back to this.
> 
> My general strategy will be close to how I usually play as town. Behavioral reads based on body of work/ISOing and/or occasional posts that strike me as notable. Constant re-assessment. Solving the game via POE and towncore.
> 
> If you were looking for mechanical input, I apologize to disappoint. I'd be curious in the answer to your own question here.
Click to expand...

Uh-huh. The reason I asked was that at the end of Cats (2019) you said you wanted to try powerwolfing next time you rolled mafia. So I was keeping an eye out to see if you would offer an alternative explanation in advance for a high postcount. Which I suppose is what happened, although I guess it could equally well just be your normal towngame, which I haven't seen. It was a bit of an ill-planned query, sorry.

As for me, I'm trying to be a bit more proactive about gathering reads instead of just fucking around waiting for some mech information to show, like I did in D1/D2 of TVT. So I'm noting down everything I spot that seems vaguely alignment-indicative. I don't have much yet, but I'm hoping that after a Day or two I'll there'll be enough to identify patterns of behaviour in a few people with reasonable certainty.



M Plus 7 said:


> mewtini said:
> 
> 
> 
> koko uses e/em!
> 
> 
> 
> Oh dang it, thank you mew. I apologize if I mess that up for anyone else in the future, I'll try my best to avoid it.
Click to expand...

I don't mind a great deal - it's what I'm most used to online, but it wouldn't really irritate me if you wanted to use something else instead. Also IIRC I spent most of the first half of Cats (2019) absent-mindedly using he/him for you, so I figure you've earned a free pass. :P


----------



## qenya

Bluwiikoon said:


> Hi koko!  Oh, was 121 the uhhh question about a trapping role? (Oh god how do I go to specific numbers on mobile)


Yeah, that was the one. Sorry, I usually add a link when I reference an old post but I forgot that time.



Bluwiikoon said:


> I think because I was thinking about it in terms of Pokémon mechanics (stealth rocks! Sneaky pebbles!) my brain internally parsed it as different for some reason. Trapping/recoil role makes sense as a thing that exists but I also didn't know the specific name for it ^^; Big sponge brain moment!


I see. Maybe I'm reading too much into this.


----------



## Bluwiikoon

I appreciate you asking again tbh! I'd been meaning to clarify it a bit since people were wondering about it, but it totally slipped my mind ^^


----------



## Bluwiikoon

Hourly bluh bluh heatwave post

Rolls around feebly!!! Wiggles tiny snom feet!!! Auuuughhh!! I really gotta activate my brain somehow


----------



## qenya

^ Yeah it's horrid isn't it. It's better than yesterday but I'm still swimming in sweat. And I can't even open the window too far because it's so windy that papers start flying everywhere :(


----------



## mewtini

lol i woke up early!


Trebek said:


> partially bc my gut tells me that the inactive lynch is better and that we can get more out of keeping superjolt alive for another day (as opposed to UC)
> 
> and partially because unless im forgetting the vote count this helps to even up the wagons, and even is fun :p


why do you think an inactive lynch is better tbh? i kind of don't love them because i think they're like ... lazier than at least poking at someone who's contributing (seeing as there is definitely mafia among the posters) and because they yield no information since, even _if_ we're lucky and they are wolves, mafia probably don't really stick their head out to save inactives 

(i'm not set on jolt, but that's where i'm getting the closest to having bad vibes and i don't have anyone else i really want to go for tbh. i just keep like ... reading his early posting in cats and getting thrown by that because i think there's a tonal difference, even if his reads weren't significantly deeper they were. i will feel kind of bad if it rly was just a time issue for him yesterday though)


kokorico said:


> Blu, I'm wavering back and forth on. His bubbliness certainly isn't pinging me as particularly town-indicative, as it seems to be for almost anyone else, and I have the impression that he pivoted into mechanical talk much sooner in Cats (2019) than he is here.


ftr the bubbliness thing is more of a metaread at this point, not that i think tone is irreproducible as either alignment (it's much more "he sounded just like this as town" than "he's towny because he's sounding this way"). i don't really get the impression he's been like ... ignoring mech or post analysis at all this game though?


----------



## mewtini

mewtini said:


> even if his reads weren't significantly deeper **than here*


wtf was my typo tbh.


----------



## Ys_

Oh, by the way, I was culted on the second to last day in that game I posted. 

On questions and other things:
-Keldeo: my read on Trebek may be biased based on something they said that I took as a sort of er confirmation? I could be wrong though. But I'll try to iso him. (I already had the appointment so I will probably be around, just maybe not very actively). As for you, Keldeo, I specifically liked how you questioned Koko's read on you and the overall questions you've asked. Very pro-town imo. Plus the advice against hypocopping. 

I admit I did sort of worded the question in a slightly combative way, sorry about that, but it's because I generally don't trust meta too much (people can change their play style) and because for some reason my meta or certain things have made others take pause when I'm town.

My question about why mafias choosing a representative was bad is because I didn't see the benefit for them. Like, sure, they are anti-town, but the popularity thing still affects them. (Corroborated by Seshas) . A hypothetical mafia rep would still be losing popularity. (and after Seshas's new rule they would be losing two points, so.) 

My questions to people like Mist or SJ is because I'm trying to get a better read on them and I prefer to ask them things to get a better read and I want to understand their thought process. 

And as for throwing shade on inactives/my reads.. I generally look at people's posts' quality rather than quantity, their tone and general disposition to help. Mist s posts just seemed to me like they weren't focused on the game but more on mech things. 

Plesse tell me if I missed any other questions/comments. Still in the process of catching up.


----------



## mewtini

mewtini said:


> why do you think an inactive lynch is better tbh? i kind of don't love them because i think they're like ... lazier than at least poking at someone who's contributing (seeing as there is definitely mafia among the posters) and because they yield no information since, even _if_ we're lucky and they are wolves, mafia probably don't really stick their head out to save inactives


also it's statistically 75% impossible that ultracool is not not not mafia since he just rolled it in cats!


----------



## Trebek

mewtini said:


> mewtini said:
> 
> 
> 
> why do you think an inactive lynch is better tbh? i kind of don't love them because i think they're like ... lazier than at least poking at someone who's contributing (seeing as there is definitely mafia among the posters) and because they yield no information since, even _if_ we're lucky and they are wolves, mafia probably don't really stick their head out to save inactives
> 
> 
> 
> also it's statistically 75% impossible that ultracool is not not not mafia since he just rolled it in cats!
Click to expand...

for the record, i’m not of the mindset that an inactive vote is better in a vacuum, just that in this moment i would rather see the wagons closer together for a longer period of time. i’m not as interested in the information UC as i am interested in how the votes play out from here (and while i agree that mafia would likely not stick their head out to save an inactive, i still think there could be info to be had once more people vote)

i think i worded my opinion on inactive votes more generally in my last post, tired brain moment lol


----------



## Trebek

*information UC gives himself


----------



## sanderidge

_sandsnom wiggles feebly. it seems to have a lot of catching up to do._
-----
yall why do you talk so much when i'm asleep, i say, ignoring the fact that i slept more than i have for like a semester. time to reread


----------



## mewtini

Trebek said:


> for the record, i’m not of the mindset that an inactive vote is better in a vacuum, just that in this moment i would rather see the wagons closer together for a longer period of time.


hmm. thanks! i guess i just kinda think the inactive lynch is more likely to go awry on d1 tbh when there's less information/interaction overall. kind of loling at myself because i defended ultracool from getting inactivelynched in cats where he was legit scum smh, but by the time he went out there had at least been some talk about him and surrounding him that we wouldn't benefit from here since it's earlygame


----------



## qenya

Keldeo said:


> Ah, koko, did you make anything more of Ysabel after that extended dialogue that you had?


I was feeling more positive about her immediately afterwards, because I appreciated the effort necessary to go through my posts issuing point-by-point responses/rebuttals when it would have been quite easy to just brush me off with a pithy response. But if I put my subjective opinions to one side that's not really the most alignment-indicative of things. I'd still say she falls into my not-quite-sure-what-to-make-of-her grey area.

Here's where my thoughts are at right now, if it helps (kind of ordered within tiers):

*chicken god:* kokorico
*pretty towny so far:* Keldeo, mewtini
*the grey area:* Ysabel, Trebek, kyeugh, M Plus 7, sanderidge, Mist1422
*uneasy:* Bluwiikoon, Superjolt
*poast moar:* JuliaTheSeaTurtleQueen, Mr. Ultracool

I think my only changes here from opinions I've previously indicated are bumping Trebek slightly down - because my only real point in his favour was his pointing out the mafia's likely response to the popularity mechanic, and several people have suggested that that's perhaps not as AI as I first thought - and inserting mewtini near the top now I've had time to look at her a bit more closely. She's been firing off a lot of theories/starting discussions, and I really liked her attempt to trick me into contradicting myself (here). If that was wolf theatre it was excellently done.

Haven't really thought about where to put my vote yet. (Three hours to EoD, right?)


----------



## Trebek

mewtini said:


> Trebek said:
> 
> 
> 
> for the record, i’m not of the mindset that an inactive vote is better in a vacuum, just that in this moment i would rather see the wagons closer together for a longer period of time.
> 
> 
> 
> hmm. thanks! i guess i just kinda think the inactive lynch is more likely to go awry on d1 tbh when there's less information/interaction overall. kind of loling at myself because i defended ultracool from getting inactivelynched in cats where he was legit scum smh, but by the time he went out there had at least been some talk about him and surrounding him that we wouldn't benefit from here since it's earlygame
Click to expand...

oh, i totally agree that it could go awry: i just think that the ways in which i envision it going awry are scenarios that give useful information

just to make clear tho, i would not have voted UC if he was the leading wagon


----------



## Keldeo

I had a dream that someone randomly dayvigged Ysabel, who was town, and everyone was so confused that we ended up yeeting Seshas.

I dunno either.


----------



## Keldeo

Mewtini, can you go a little more into the tonal differences between Cats Superjolt and here Superjolt? I may be excusing the depth difference too much because of the different circumstances, but I do think the circumstances are different enough... going off memory and like a 5-minute ISO skim of Cats, so I’ll dive back into that if I have time.


ftr, from what I know, MP7 has a high volume ceiling as both alignments. My impression is that her volume is much more indicative of her time to play than her alignment.

If she is “powerwolfing” (townreading partners and scumreading town), that doesn’t bode well for my reads because I think we have pretty similar ones, heh. Of course mafia might be conscious of their popularity, though.


----------



## Keldeo

kokorico said:


> Keldeo said:
> 
> 
> 
> Ah, koko, did you make anything more of Ysabel after that extended dialogue that you had?
> 
> 
> 
> I was feeling more positive about her immediately afterwards, because I appreciated the effort necessary to go through my posts issuing point-by-point responses/rebuttals when it would have been quite easy to just brush me off with a pithy response. But if I put my subjective opinions to one side that's not really the most alignment-indicative of things. I'd still say she falls into my not-quite-sure-what-to-make-of-her grey area.
> 
> Here's where my thoughts are at right now, if it helps (kind of ordered within tiers):
> 
> *chicken god:* kokorico
> *pretty towny so far:* Keldeo, mewtini
> *the grey area:* Ysabel, Trebek, kyeugh, M Plus 7, sanderidge, Mist1422
> *uneasy:* Bluwiikoon, Superjolt
> *poast moar:* JuliaTheSeaTurtleQueen, Mr. Ultracool
> 
> I think my only changes here from opinions I've previously indicated are bumping Trebek slightly down - because my only real point in his favour was his pointing out the mafia's likely response to the popularity mechanic, and several people have suggested that that's perhaps not as AI as I first thought - and inserting mewtini near the top now I've had time to look at her a bit more closely. She's been firing off a lot of theories/starting discussions, and I really liked her attempt to trick me into contradicting myself (here). If that was wolf theatre it was excellently done.
> 
> Haven't really thought about where to put my vote yet. (Three hours to EoD, right?)
Click to expand...

Thanks! I have a bunch of questions for you:

Are these ordered within tiers?

Who were the "several people" who pushed back on the Trebek read, iirc it was mostly me? Do you have any read on his recent real-time posting with MP7?

Could I ask you to go a bit more in depth about your sande and Superjolt feels?

In general terms, how were you planning to approach me this game, before it started?

Also, sorry if I seemed like I was nagging you too much about thoughts on me and Blu - I knew you were asleep, just wanted to be clear what I was waiting for, hehe. I think what you say is fair enough, although I'm like... hmm. To clarify what I meant by bolstering, I almost don't think MP7 makes those posts in that sequence about a partner (liking his tone, then stating definitively he was town, then walking it back a little bit), and if she's town I trust her instincts.


----------



## Keldeo

Ysabel said:


> And as for throwing shade on inactives/my reads.. I generally look at people's posts' quality rather than quantity, their tone and general disposition to help. Mist s posts just seemed to me like they weren't focused on the game but more on mech things.


How do you differentiate Mist's focus on mechanics from Trebek's focus on mechanics prior to your first reads post?


----------



## Keldeo

I'll be back in a little bit. Placing more votes is good imo - particularly if they're not bound to the two wagons we have right now, I think more options would be fine rn.

To be perfectly clear about my viewpoint, I would be kind of unsurprised if either of the current wagons flipped town or flipped mafia but I don't really have better ideas, hehe. I remember Mr. Ultracool seeming more hesitant to make posts as mafia in Cats than he seemed in TVTropes, which is also partially why I'm on him rather than on Superjolt.


----------



## Superjolt

mewtini said:


> i'm actually going to go to sleep now, lol. not sure if i'll be back before EoD because i have stuff from like, 12 until 3pm/EoD and it's like 4am so who knows if i'll get up significantly earlier tbh. so i'll vibe on *superjolt* (still irked by his reads before and the tonal difference between those and the catsposting) and hopefully make it back in time for everything


I admit my reads aren’t great, but that’s where I’m at. I’m kind of just really having a hard time reading everyone here, despite partially playing in/spectating Cats I still don’t really know anyone here that well yet and then there’s even players here that weren’t even in Cats. I was already kind of struggling with how I wanted to approach things in this game but being hit with a wave of exhaustion has just kind of killed it for me... I’ve slept a total of maybe 7 hours the past few nights combined

Kind of just looking at the thread and trying to think about things but my brain is like “nope” so I’m kind of frustrated 

Trying to read but kind of skipped chunks of the thread, but uh did anyone have anything for me that I might’ve missed?


----------



## Superjolt

Let’s be honest though, it’s because you all hate my hat isn’t it?!


----------



## Keldeo

Hey Superjolt! Sorry to hear that... hope you can catch up on sleep soon.

If you aren't able to make reads on everyone, I would appreciate hearing a deeper dive or two from you in the time we have left.


----------



## Zori

_Votecount (#616):_
*Superjolt* | 3 | Ysabel (#362), M Plus 7 (#570), mewtini (#575)
Mr. Ultracool | 2 | Keldeo (#574), Trebek (#584)



Spoiler: Vote History



Trebek votes mewtini [->1] (#216)
Trebek unvotes mewtini [0->] (#217)
mewtini votes kyeugh [->1] (#219)
mewtini unvotes kyeugh [0->] (#223)
Keldeo votes Superjolt [->1] (#317)
*Ysabel votes Superjolt [->2] (#362)*
M Plus 7 votes Trebek [->1] (#407)
M Plus 7 votes Trebek -> kokorico [0->1] (#467)
Keldeo unvotes Superjolt [1->] (#517)
M Plus 7 unvotes kokorico [0->] (#532)
*M Plus 7 votes Superjolt [->2] (#570)
Keldeo votes Mr. Ultracool [->1] (#574)
mewtini votes Superjolt [->3] (#575)
Trebek votes Mr. Ultracool [->2] (#584)*



70 minutes remain in Day 1.


----------



## Superjolt

Ysabel said:


> My questions to people like Mist or SJ is because I'm trying to get a better read on them and I prefer to ask them things to get a better read and I want to understand their thought process


Did you have something for me? Which post? I know you’re voting me but I can’t really remember why rn


----------



## Keldeo

Quiet EOD, huh. I guess I'll try to write something about people I haven't written about.

Having a bit of trouble gauging kyeugh tbh. I guess I'd expect more pointed suspicions or pushes from her as mafia...? This is what I called agendaedness last night. I guess you could say that her talking about reasons to not townread like me / mewtini / Blu fits that mold, but I also think what she pointed out is reasonable about everyone.

idk lol, Ysabel linking her meta is straightforwardly towny/helpful, but she mentioned that she tries to be helpful as mafia, and so it's probably something she'd do to be "helpful" as either alignment. I skimmed a couple posts from her ISO there and it seems tonally similar so I'm guessing my worries about that are just a her thing. She maybe seized more on things she was suspicious of. I don't love meta reading games I wasn't in.


----------



## mewtini

my meeting got canceled so i am back tbh! will respond to stuff momentarily


----------



## sanderidge

gurgles anxiously because i was like "i'm gonna reread the whole thread!" and now we're an hour away from eod and i'm on page 17. note to self not to do this next time. how tf did anyone survive early cats mafia


----------



## sanderidge

HAHAHA PAGETOP lol k i'm gone


----------



## Keldeo

sande, if you can't read everything, maybe you could ISO Superjolt and tell me what you think? Or give your thoughts on the early part of the thread?

@Bluwiikoon just curious, when you were writing your ISO on Trebek, did you already have in mind everything that you pointed out, or did you come up with it as you were reading? Is there anything that gives you hesitation on him?

--

Pulling up Superjolt posts: 



Superjolt said:


> Looking at koko - I still think the keldeo read was a little quick because that keldeo post doesn’t seem like it could be outside his scum meta but I’m also not sure if scum!koko would go for such a quick read? I feel like Koko sounded kind of unsure of eirself in eir posts last game as scum (at least from what I remember, or maybe that was in the early game?) but sounds pretty confident this time around. Kind of unsure here though, I also didn’t really follow the read on blu
> 
> Also speaking of koko and questions for me: (no quote sorry but it was in 244) I’m kind of against it for reasons others said and also similar to mewtini I like seeing how votes/ wagons come together and looking at those later @kokorico





Superjolt said:


> Spoiler
> 
> 
> 
> Bluwiikoon - mentioned already that I get the same kind of pure Vibes as last game and this hasn’t changed (though Blu did feel a little more solvey on D1 in Cats I thought)
> 
> Mist - no opinion here, guess they never came in to give those Takes(tm)
> 
> sanderidge - I kind of want to say sande feels pure on tone (kind of similar to Blu but also maybe less so and with an asterisk that she does have more experience... if this makes sense? maybe need to revisit later)
> 
> kyeugh - kind of gave thoughts above already
> 
> kokorico - gave thoughts here too, still unsure here
> 
> Ysabel - seems alright so far? Her reads felt genuine at least. I did skim tho so maybe need to check over again
> 
> Keldeo - feels good so far and I don’t think I’ve had a problem with any of the questions he’s asked. I will note that I kind of felt the same way in Cats about him early on though. I also don’t support the wagon he’s started! On a serious note though not entirely sure how I feel about his vote on me, I think it would have been stronger if he had coupled it with more than just getting me to contribute, which I would have done anyway even without a vote (unless there’s actually more to it and I’m already forgetting)
> 
> mewtini- Getting similar vibes to last game where she was town so I think town
> 
> Trebek- thought he seemed ok early on but not sure now, he was tough to read last game
> 
> 404 not found - Julia, Mr ultracool , m+7
> 
> hmm this feels like too many unsures/nulls... but this is where I’m at





Superjolt said:


> Liiiight townlean for now on Emmy for #114 because I like that she asked this question in the middle of all the sillyposting, I think trying to spark serious discussion when things are mostly Not Serious looks good. I like mewtini based on tone so far, same goes for Blu and I like the excitement from Blu, so townleans there. Also kind of like Herbe who sounds legit excited to have rolled town. And if we're hypoclaiming, then Herbe is defintiely a *lean green townie machine!* Not sure about Seshas, kind of want to keep an eye there going forward maybe?
> 
> Quite a lack of voting so far, wish there were some votes being tossed around because it would help with vibes/reads (or at least for me!)





Superjolt said:


> Spoiler
> 
> 
> 
> Up to page 18 and I see that Keldeo kind of has the same thoughts/reads that I had (esp. on mewtini and Blu, and later others have similar thoughts as well so I'm glad I'm not the only one there. I like mewtini more as I go as she seems to get more solvey (also thanks to mewtini for pointing out pages/posts to me!)
> 
> Seshas is someone I really want to reread/ISO
> 
> I feel like I should have some opinion on kyeugh at this point but I kind of don't so she's maybe worth a reread too? I do see more posts from her coming up after Keldeo's vote so maybe that will help out a bit
> 
> Also want to reread rari posts
> 
> Keldeo seems okay for now. I do like that he voted to get people talking (and for the record I do agree with Keldeo that it's never too early to vote!). I'm good with him being town for now.
> 
> ILS seemed to get town reads for flavor spec for some reason, and then even pointed out himself that it's not something that should warrant a town read but he doesn't really do anything else? Like, I feel like that should have been paired with something else like "you're right that me flavor spec'ing doesn't mean anything, now let me actually Do Things!" but he really doesn't do anything else, and the next time he posts is in reaction to Keldeo's vote on Trebek I think? I'm pretty tired now so idk if this makes sense. Part of me wonders if this may not be a bad place to vote?
> 
> I feel like I've got a handful of town, and then a _ton_ of nulls but like not really any scum reads at this point so I feel like I'm missing something


Meh yeah I guess Superjolt was more confident or existent early in Cats. There's a decent gap in depth between the reads he gave here and, say, his read on ILS in this last post I quote. 

I think the towniest thing Superjolt has done is maybe his question on Skylar because like... hmm... I guess it indicates that he was thinking "Skylar seems less towny than last time, what do people think of her?" here, but didn't talk about it until later. Background thought process.



Superjolt said:


> While I’m here and thinking about it: where are people’s heads at on skylar rn? Just to see thoughts on this when I read up


Also, I'm on koko town right now, and mafia Superjolt _probably_ could jump on koko instead of hedging out of an initial bad impression in that first post.


----------



## Tangrowth

I am here but... less lucid than anticipated.


----------



## qenya

Keldeo said:


> Thanks! I have a bunch of questions for you:
> 
> Are these ordered within tiers?


Nominally, yes, I tried to order them. But especially in the Grey Area (tm), it's honestly pretty arbitrary. For, uh, obvious reasons.



Keldeo said:


> Who were the "several people" who pushed back on the Trebek read, iirc it was mostly me? Do you have any read on his recent real-time posting with MP7?


I think mewt and MP7 both made the same point? Don't quote me on that - I didn't note down the posts where it happened and it's not the sort of thing that's very easy to search for.

By the real-time posting, do you mean the stuff on page 25? (I wasn't there when it happened so I didn't realise it was real-time.) If so, I'm not really getting anything out of it at all, either when I initially read it or now I look over it again. There are only a few posts and the only thing that seems vaguely AI from either of them is the fact that M+7 was trying to establish a read on him at all. Am I missing something?



Keldeo said:


> Could I ask you to go a bit more in depth about your sande and Superjolt feels?


Sure. My sanderidge thoughts haven't really changed much since what I said earlier, that she didn't react as if w/w with Bluwiikoon and had made a couple of towny posts. Slightly later on, she presented a slightly disorganised list of reads that lined up pretty well with my own, even though I hadn't talked about all of them in-thread yet. That made me feel a little more confident both in them and in her. But I don't have anything I would consider strong evidence either way yet.

Superjolt is probably the most scum-looking person at the moment, but that could also plausibly just be a lack of time/experience/interest. For example, he popped in very briefly at the start of the Day when it seemed like he might be coming under the microscope for inactivity, but didn't stick around for long. More recently, his reads list was really very thin on information and most people's entries boiled down to "idk". I was also a little bemused when, in response to my question about his opinion on the representatives idea, he cited mewtini's argument against it - but she didn't make that argument until _after_ I asked the question!

(will continue from here in the next post because this is getting long and I want to get the above out there so you have a chance to read it with less EoD time pressure)


----------



## mewtini

Keldeo said:


> Mewtini, can you go a little more into the tonal differences between Cats Superjolt and here Superjolt? I may be excusing the depth difference too much because of the different circumstances, but I do think the circumstances are different enough... going off memory and like a 5-minute ISO skim of Cats, so I’ll dive back into that if I have time.


i think you kind of covered them in your post just now, haha. it might just be an availability/rushedness issue, i just thought that, at face value, his reads here sounded way more (shrug) and that he actually did reach some conclusions in his catsposting beyond "sounds like cats"/"doesn't sound like cats" and i'd rather roll with that gut lean than lynch an inactive on d1 for reasons i described earlier


----------



## mewtini

kokorico said:


> I was also a little bemused when, in response to my question about his opinion on the representatives idea, he cited mewtini's argument against it - but she didn't make that argument until _after_ I asked the question!


in his defense i think he was just saying he agreed with what i said tbh


----------



## Keldeo

@Superjolt I don't believe Ysabel gave a detailed explanation for voting you. If you didn't have self-preservation in mind, who would you vote? 



Keldeo said:


> Also, I'm on koko town right now, and mafia Superjolt _probably_ could jump on koko instead of hedging out of an initial bad impression in that first post.


Would he want to do that...? Not sure. 

I don't... think his hedge is inherently scummy. I think the way in which he totally negated some of his reads with "but I'm not sure" could be.


----------



## mewtini

mewtini said:


> he actually did reach some conclusions in his catsposting beyond "sounds like cats"/"doesn't sound like cats"


this was sort of stupid given that cats was his first exposure to all of us, but my point is that he did display some ability to quickly read/draw information out of people's casualposting


----------



## Keldeo

Man, I have too many townreads. 



kokorico said:


> By the real-time posting, do you mean the stuff on page 25? (I wasn't there when it happened so I didn't realise it was real-time.) If so, I'm not really getting anything out of it at all, either when I initially read it or now I look over it again. There are only a few posts and the only thing that seems vaguely AI from either of them is the fact that M+7 was trying to establish a read on him at all. Am I missing something?


Sure. I thought his tone was pretty good, and the way he walked back his MP7 read seemed ~considerate.


----------



## Keldeo

kokorico said:


> Superjolt is probably the most scum-looking person at the moment, but that could also plausibly just be a lack of time/experience/interest. For example, he popped in very briefly at the start of the Day when it seemed like he might be coming under the microscope for inactivity, but didn't stick around for long. More recently, his reads list was really very thin on information and most people's entries boiled down to "idk". I was also a little bemused when, in response to my question about his opinion on the representatives idea, he cited mewtini's argument against it - but she didn't make that argument until _after_ I asked the question!


Ugh, someone tell me whether this is pushing something that makes Superjolt look like mafia or something that makes Superjolt mafia.


----------



## mewtini

Keldeo said:


> Having a bit of trouble gauging kyeugh tbh. I guess I'd expect more pointed suspicions or pushes from her as mafia...? This is what I called agendaedness last night. I guess you could say that her talking about reasons to not townread like me / mewtini / Blu fits that mold, but I also think what she pointed out is reasonable about everyone.


i agree with you on her lack of agenda atm ... are you like, not actively townreading her despite not seeing her wolfgame here? it sounds like you're sort of in between
(this is kind of not EoD related but it looks like it's sort of slow anyway?)


----------



## Tangrowth

Keldeo said:


> @M Plus 7 questions for when you get back
> 
> Am I in your top tier because you're actively townreading me or because you just don't want to kill me today? If the former, can you talk
> a bit about why? I kind of expected you to be more paranoid of me.
> 
> Which of Ysabel's reads seem forced to you?
> 
> Can you clarify what you mean when you say koko seemed to be TMIing Blu, since you're townreading Blu but e had a scumread / batted down townreads on Blu?


Both to varying extents. Tinfoil can go fuck off. Your posts are genuine.

Uhhh let me go back and see what night gal was talking about with those other two things, I don't remember.


----------



## mewtini

Keldeo said:


> Ugh, someone tell me whether this is pushing something that makes Superjolt look like mafia or something that makes Superjolt mafia.


i think the first two things are kind of legit but the last bit is insignificant (i think koko's been doing that kind of a lot tbh, i'm not sure how i feel about it yet)


----------



## Tangrowth

M Plus 7 said:


> Keldeo said:
> 
> 
> 
> @M Plus 7 questions for when you get back
> 
> Am I in your top tier because you're actively townreading me or because you just don't want to kill me today? If the former, can you talk
> a bit about why? I kind of expected you to be more paranoid of me.
> 
> Which of Ysabel's reads seem forced to you?
> 
> Can you clarify what you mean when you say koko seemed to be TMIing Blu, since you're townreading Blu but e had a scumread / batted down townreads on Blu?
> 
> 
> 
> Both to varying extents. Tinfoil can go fuck off. Your posts are genuine.
> 
> Uhhh let me go back and see what night gal was talking about with those other two things, I don't remember.
Click to expand...

Actually, how much should I prioritize this right now?


----------



## Tangrowth

Let me catch up first perhaps.


----------



## Tangrowth

Keldeo said:


> *vote Mr. Ultracool* I guess
> 
> Superjolt hedges in most of his takes in #369 (mewtini and Ysabel are the only ones without some sort of qualifier). I kind of think this is a him thing regardless of his alignment, he wasn't able to say much more confidently after a bit more posting in early Cats... I appreciate him giving the thoughts at least and want to unvote because let's give him another day here.


Eh? I seem to recall there being more of a difference. I can go look.


----------



## mewtini

M Plus 7 said:


> Eh? I seem to recall there being more of a difference. I can go look.


keldeo went through it a bit at the top of this page!


----------



## Tangrowth

mewtini said:


> M Plus 7 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Eh? I seem to recall there being more of a difference. I can go look.
> 
> 
> 
> keldeo went through it a bit at the top of this page!
Click to expand...

This is why I should fully catch up.


----------



## Keldeo

To be clear again I'm like, fine with Superjolt dying but... I feel like he might be more likely to display his alignment either way than Mr. Ultracool? Hmm.



mewtini said:


> Keldeo said:
> 
> 
> 
> Having a bit of trouble gauging kyeugh tbh. I guess I'd expect more pointed suspicions or pushes from her as mafia...? This is what I called agendaedness last night. I guess you could say that her talking about reasons to not townread like me / mewtini / Blu fits that mold, but I also think what she pointed out is reasonable about everyone.
> 
> 
> 
> i agree with you on her lack of agenda atm ... are you like, not actively townreading her despite not seeing her wolfgame here? it sounds like you're sort of in between
> (this is kind of not EoD related but it looks like it's sort of slow anyway?)
Click to expand...

Ehh I'm at like... I don't want to yeet her today. She could be mafia, I don't think it'd be impossible for her to be posting the way she has been as mafia when she seemed to be going to take it easy this game anyway and she's a good wolf. Probably "actively" leaning town if I had to pin something down.


----------



## Keldeo

M Plus 7 said:


> M Plus 7 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Uhhh let me go back and see what night gal was talking about with those other two things, I don't remember.
> 
> 
> 
> Actually, how much should I prioritize this right now?
Click to expand...

Don't worry about it.


----------



## mewtini

Keldeo said:


> I feel like he might be more likely to display his alignment either way than Mr. Ultracool? Hmm.


that's fair. my resistance to the ultracool lynch is the same as it was in cats, i feel weird falling back on it d1


----------



## Tangrowth

Trebek said:


> so while i will be around for EoD, 100% stuffs gonna happenen before i wake up, so ill just throw my vote for *mr ultracool* in now
> 
> partially bc my gut tells me that the inactive lynch is better and that we can get more out of keeping superjolt alive for another day (as opposed to UC)
> 
> and partially because unless im forgetting the vote count this helps to even up the wagons, and even is fun :p


See, there's something still bugging me about Trebek's posts. Maybe I'm crazy... I'll go look. But like... in Cats, he was nervous and over-explainy, but this feels different. It's like he has this sort of additional justification thing going on.


----------



## qenya

(continued from above)



Keldeo said:


> In general terms, how were you planning to approach me this game, before it started?


If I'm understanding the question correctly - I'd already pegged you based on your TVT and Cats (2019) play as someone who was probably going to be one of the strongest players, so I thought it would be useful to try to sort you into town/scum as early as possible. To that end I skimmed through your posts there, which is how I figured out (what I believe to be) your scumtell, and went through your posts here more finely than everyone else's looking for it.

(Fun fact: I also glanced through some older archive games, and while I didn't glean any insights about _you_ from them, I think I might have identified a scumtell for _Butterfree_. Looking forward to getting the chance to use that.)



Keldeo said:


> Ugh, someone tell me whether this is pushing something that makes Superjolt look like mafia or something that makes Superjolt mafia.


It's only a "looks like", if that. (In my opinion, that is.) It's perfectly possible that he'd just been thinking the same thing already and referred to mewt's explanation to avoid re-explaining it himself. I only mention it because it raised my eyebrow slightly when it happened.

As far as my vote goes, on balance I think I'd like to err on the side of being optimistic about Superjolt, for a similar reason to my opinions on our N0 kill in Cats (2019) - unwillingness to bump off the newer players before they've really had a chance to actually play. So I'm going to go for *Ultracool*. I don't really subscribe to "policy lynch the inactives" either, but I don't see a better target.


----------



## Keldeo

I'd be interested in you going into that at some point, MP, because I feel like he's had a similar amount of ""awkward"" tone but I literally have not gone back to his Cats posting at all.


----------



## Tangrowth

kokorico said:


> Keldeo said:
> 
> 
> 
> @kokorico, could you give updated reads on me and Blu?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Keldeo said:
> 
> 
> 
> I would like to see eir updated thoughts on me/Blu.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Steady on! I do need to sleep from time to time :P
> 
> Regarding you, I concede I probably jumped to my conclusion a bit too quickly, out of excitability / wanting to demonstrate my read / feeling like 48h was shorter than it is, and on reflection you were probably right to find it odd. Sorry about that. But so far you still haven't actually displayed the "combativeness" I mentioned towards anyone other than me, or done anything else that pings me as scummy, and you've been engaging with the game, trying to figure things out and presenting your thoughts in real time. So I still consider you to be at the top of my town pile.
> 
> Blu, I'm wavering back and forth on. His bubbliness certainly isn't pinging me as particularly town-indicative, as it seems to be for almost anyone else, and I have the impression that he pivoted into mechanical talk much sooner in Cats (2019) than he is here. But equally, I can't really pin down anything solid that indicates scumplay. I also spotted a couple of things that, if he's town, might be a part of an attempt to set up a gambit for later - I'll avoid spoiling that. I would still dearly love to know what his reasoning was for asking the question in #121: both mewt and I have now asked him on separate occasions, but unless I missed it I don't think he ever responded.
> 
> (I know some other people asked me things overnight too, but I gotta go eat something. I promise to come back to them later.)
Click to expand...

This is a post. I need to bookmark it, so that's why I'm making this post. Something for d2 MP7 to look at.


----------



## Tangrowth

Keldeo said:


> I'd be interested in you going into that at some point, MP, because I feel like he's had a similar amount of ""awkward"" tone but I literally have not gone back to his Cats posting at all.


I certainly would love to a deeper dive into it and confirm or deny my gut.


----------



## Keldeo

Okay, I may be confbiasing but I saw what I wanted to see in koko's reads on me and Blu. I think koko is town right now, though I think we shouldn't forget about eir early reads.


----------



## Tangrowth

M Plus 7 said:


> Trebek said:
> 
> 
> 
> so while i will be around for EoD, 100% stuffs gonna happenen before i wake up, so ill just throw my vote for *mr ultracool* in now
> 
> partially bc my gut tells me that the inactive lynch is better and that we can get more out of keeping superjolt alive for another day (as opposed to UC)
> 
> and partially because unless im forgetting the vote count this helps to even up the wagons, and even is fun :p
> 
> 
> 
> See, there's something still bugging me about Trebek's posts. Maybe I'm crazy... I'll go look. But like... in Cats, he was nervous and over-explainy, but this feels different. It's like he has this sort of additional justification thing going on.
Click to expand...

This is sort of how you can catch newbie players in IRL mafia too, but I don't believe in any universal tells.


----------



## sanderidge

okay i'm just gonna go through what i got through so far and then maybe try to iso superjolt. i got up to keldeo's #368, pg 19, for reference for future me 
holy FUCK that's a lot of quotes. uhhh here we go 



Bluwiikoon said:


> I feel like the flavor text indicates some kind of power role that can drag people  I'd assume such a thing would be a wolf power, so maybe for now we can assume kyeugh is innocent? Just the target of mean gossip LOL


i'm gently agreeing with this; i remember someone else saying that it's vaguely possible that the mafia could have galaxy brained into targeting one of their own immediately (which would also give that person an out from voting), but i don't think they would have? so that's one of the reasons i feel good about skylar. another thing is i don't think that mafia would go and point out the possible reasons why that (the popularity targeting thing) _doesn't_ clear them, i feel like they'd just ride with it and be like yeah!! that confirms me as town!!! _especially _if they chose to start out debuffing one of their own that way. i dont think i have time to go find the post where skylar said that being debuffed doesn't confirm her as town but i feel good about that



Trebek said:


> the real question is, if town decides to try to yeet someone today, it will be interesting to see how mafia react around the wagons, since they know how it will affect their popularity and we don’t


i think this has been quoted a billion times but this is a Good Poast and i feel good about trebek for it. there is literally nothing else i remember trebek posting so, uh, that's the Only Thing for me in their favor so far, but i feel like that's significant



kokorico said:


> I'm not as keen as [Keldeo] is on Bluwiikoon though. It's true that he's meming in a similar way to his behaviour in Cats (2019), but back then he sobered up when people actually started talking mafia. In this game we're already making plans but I think he's made, like, one non-joke post so far? And that was proposing an abstention. Idk, just seems a bit odd.


i think i mentioned this earlier (and they did just now) but we're like the only two people in the thread who aren't really reading blu as town for tone? maybe it's bc i wasn't In cats and was just reading along but for me blu is sitting just above neutral, not really town. i feel like i'm kind of sheeping koko bc i feel like i'm repeating a lot of things e says... maybe we just think similarly idk. but i feel okay about koko bc what e's thinking lines up with what i'm thinking.



Ysabel said:


> sanderidge said:
> 
> 
> 
> i feel like a scumchat _might _let one of their own into the thread to go "hey uh how do you play mafia", especially since it feels like to me that a lot of people in this game are reading blu as town for tone reasons, so i'm not really feeling that not knowing stuff is clearing julia.
> 
> 
> 
> Can you expand on this, please? And how do reads on Blu relate to reads on Julia?
Click to expand...

what i meant by this is that i don't feel like not knowing things about the game, the way julia came in and asked about it, necessarily clears people: i feel like if someone who didn't know anything about mafia got a mafia role, their scum team might tell them to come into the thread and express their confusion there in case that clears them. that might be kind of tinfoil of me, though, and based on how some others are saying they feel like mafia wouldn't do that / they feel julia's tone was okay (and some are saying maybe not?!), i'm putting that thought aside for later. 



kyeugh said:


> mewtini said:
> 
> 
> 
> i just think julia's entrance was so pure (heavily dependent on whatever she says next), likely because i don't think the "scumteam telling a wolf to go ask the thread how to play the game" narrative happens all that often
> 
> 
> 
> i don’t think the scumteam has to factor into it. if julia is scum, she probably just posted that without consulting her teammates.
Click to expand...

(i saved the quotes for "maf wouldn't do that" "maybe they would" so i'm putting them here) 

reads on blu relate to reads on julia bc those reads both seem like a lot of people are reading them towny for tone, and i don't really agree with the Majority Feeling on blu, so it makes sense to me that i also wouldn't feel the same way on julia. but again i'm putting this thought down for now bc it's 11:29am and eod is Soon


----------



## Tangrowth

kokorico said:


> M Plus 7 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> kokorico said:
> 
> 
> 
> @M Plus 7 - Nice to see you earlier! Do you have any thoughts on the game so far? What do you think your general strategy is going to be?
> 
> 
> 
> @kokorico
> 
> Circling back to this.
> 
> My general strategy will be close to how I usually play as town. Behavioral reads based on body of work/ISOing and/or occasional posts that strike me as notable. Constant re-assessment. Solving the game via POE and towncore.
> 
> If you were looking for mechanical input, I apologize to disappoint. I'd be curious in the answer to your own question here.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Uh-huh. The reason I asked was that at the end of Cats (2019) you said you wanted to try powerwolfing next time you rolled mafia. So I was keeping an eye out to see if you would offer an alternative explanation in advance for a high postcount. Which I suppose is what happened, although I guess it could equally well just be your normal towngame, which I haven't seen. It was a bit of an ill-planned query, sorry.
> 
> As for me, I'm trying to be a bit more proactive about gathering reads instead of just fucking around waiting for some mech information to show, like I did in D1/D2 of TVT. So I'm noting down everything I spot that seems vaguely alignment-indicative. I don't have much yet, but I'm hoping that after a Day or two I'll there'll be enough to identify patterns of behaviour in a few people with reasonable certainty.
> 
> 
> 
> M Plus 7 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> mewtini said:
> 
> 
> 
> koko uses e/em!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Oh dang it, thank you mew. I apologize if I mess that up for anyone else in the future, I'll try my best to avoid it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I don't mind a great deal - it's what I'm most used to online, but it wouldn't really irritate me if you wanted to use something else instead. Also IIRC I spent most of the first half of Cats (2019) absent-mindedly using he/him for you, so I figure you've earned a free pass. :P
Click to expand...

Thank you so much for explaining.

And that's totally understandable, I actually came out as trans during that game, so your absent-minded gendering was probably correct!


----------



## mewtini

tbh though seeing koko's explanations of eir questioning (the mp7 'powerwolfing' thing springs to mind) makes me feel pretty alright there


----------



## Tangrowth

mewtini said:


> tbh though seeing koko's explanations of eir questioning (the mp7 'powerwolfing' thing springs to mind) makes me feel pretty alright there


Yeah, I quite liked that line of thinking, reads legit.


----------



## Tangrowth

I feel like my reads are garbage, sigh.


----------



## Tangrowth

M Plus 7 said:


> I feel like my reads are garbage, sigh.


It's okay, MP7, it's d1 and you haven't even been around that much. Force people to take stances and keep digging. The 'objectively' better yeet is always the way to go today.


----------



## mewtini

if my counting is right the wagons are even?


Spoiler: vote hist



mewt/seshas 14
mist/seshas 19
mewt/eifie 63
trebek/stealth rock 111
trebek/mewt 216
trebek/uvote 217
mewt/skylar 219
mewt/uvote 223
trebek/seshas 226
trebek/uvote 243
keldeo/jolt 317
*ysabel/jolt 362*
mp7/trebek 407
mp7/koko 467
mp7/uvote 532
*mp7/jolt 570
keldeo/ultracool 574
mewt/jolt 575
trebek/ultracool 584
koko/ultracool 644*


_ultracool (3):_ keldeo, trebek, koko
_superjolt (3):_ ysabel, mp7, mewt


----------



## Tangrowth

Ysabel said:


> Oh, by the way, I was culted on the second to last day in that game I posted.
> 
> On questions and other things:
> -Keldeo: my read on Trebek may be biased based on something they said that I took as a sort of er confirmation? I could be wrong though. But I'll try to iso him. (I already had the appointment so I will probably be around, just maybe not very actively). As for you, Keldeo, I specifically liked how you questioned Koko's read on you and the overall questions you've asked. Very pro-town imo. Plus the advice against hypocopping.
> 
> I admit I did sort of worded the question in a slightly combative way, sorry about that, but it's because I generally don't trust meta too much (people can change their play style) and because for some reason my meta or certain things have made others take pause when I'm town.
> 
> My question about why mafias choosing a representative was bad is because I didn't see the benefit for them. Like, sure, they are anti-town, but the popularity thing still affects them. (Corroborated by Seshas) . A hypothetical mafia rep would still be losing popularity. (and after Seshas's new rule they would be losing two points, so.)
> 
> My questions to people like Mist or SJ is because I'm trying to get a better read on them and I prefer to ask them things to get a better read and I want to understand their thought process.
> 
> And as for throwing shade on inactives/my reads.. I generally look at people's posts' quality rather than quantity, their tone and general disposition to help. Mist s posts just seemed to me like they weren't focused on the game but more on mech things.
> 
> Plesse tell me if I missed any other questions/comments. Still in the process of catching up.


@Ysabel

You and I need to interact at some point! I'll see what I can do to make that happen.

I'm particularly intrigued in an elaboration on the underlined, but it doesn't have to happen at EoD for sure.


----------



## Tangrowth

mewtini said:


> mewtini said:
> 
> 
> 
> why do you think an inactive lynch is better tbh? i kind of don't love them because i think they're like ... lazier than at least poking at someone who's contributing (seeing as there is definitely mafia among the posters) and because they yield no information since, even _if_ we're lucky and they are wolves, mafia probably don't really stick their head out to save inactives
> 
> 
> 
> also it's statistically 75% impossible that ultracool is not not not mafia since he just rolled it in cats!
Click to expand...

Lmao.


----------



## qenya

kokorico said:


> As far as my vote goes, on balance I think I'd like to err on the side of being optimistic about Superjolt, for a similar reason to my opinions on our N0 kill in Cats (2019) - unwillingness to bump off the newer players before they've really had a chance to actually play. So I'm going to go for *Ultracool*. I don't really subscribe to "policy lynch the inactives" either, but I don't see a better target.


*yeet. I'll get there, I promise.

I should clarify I don't think a Superjolt yeet would be a terrible play in principle, it's just not the way I'm personally leaning.



M Plus 7 said:


> And that's totally understandable, I actually came out as trans during that game, so your absent-minded gendering was probably correct!


Oh, cool! I did notice you'd added a rainbow flag overlay to your avatar but I figured it was just a Pride month thing. Congratulations!


----------



## Keldeo

I'm tempted to like sande's read on Skylar for it being similar to mine heh.

Noting that both sande and koko like each other for mindmelding.

Someone sanity check me on the statement: if Mr. Ultracool or Superjolt is mafia, their partner is probably not active itt right now.


----------



## Tangrowth

My gut definitely likes koko. Moving em up in reads.


----------



## Tangrowth

Keldeo said:


> I'm tempted to like sande's read on Skylar for it being similar to mine heh.
> 
> Noting that both sande and koko like each other for mindmelding.
> 
> Someone sanity check me on the statement: if Mr. Ultracool or Superjolt is mafia, their partner is probably not active itt right now.


Explain that logic please.


----------



## mewtini

Keldeo said:


> Someone sanity check me on the statement: if Mr. Ultracool or Superjolt is mafia, their partner is probably not active itt right now.


what do you mean?


----------



## Zori

thank you mewtini for ninja'ing me with a correct votecount because I was about to post a wrong one

_Votecount (#664):_
*Superjolt* | 3 | Ysabel (#362), M Plus 7 (#570), mewtini (#575)
*Mr. Ultracool* | 3 | Keldeo (#574), Trebek (#584), kokorico (#644)



Spoiler: Vote History



Trebek votes mewtini [->1] (#216)
Trebek unvotes mewtini [0->] (#217)
mewtini votes kyeugh [->1] (#219)
mewtini unvotes kyeugh [0->] (#223)
Keldeo votes Superjolt [->1] (#317)
*Ysabel votes Superjolt [->2] (#362)*
M Plus 7 votes Trebek [->1] (#407)
M Plus 7 votes Trebek -> kokorico [0->1] (#467)
Keldeo unvotes Superjolt [1->] (#517)
M Plus 7 unvotes kokorico [0->] (#532)
*M Plus 7 votes Superjolt [->2] (#570)
Keldeo votes Mr. Ultracool [->1] (#574)
mewtini votes Superjolt [->3] (#575)
Trebek votes Mr. Ultracool [->2] (#584)
kokorico votes Mr. Ultracool [->3] (#644)*


----------



## Tangrowth

kokorico said:


> M Plus 7 said:
> 
> 
> 
> And that's totally understandable, I actually came out as trans during that game, so your absent-minded gendering was probably correct!
> 
> 
> 
> Oh, cool! I did notice you'd added a rainbow flag overlay to your avatar but I figured it was just a Pride month thing. Congratulations!
Click to expand...

Thanks so much! I didn't mention it in the Cats game as everything was a bit of a whirlwind and despite the position I was in mechanically... just didn't want it influencing the game or something nonetheless, you know?


----------



## sanderidge

iiii don't think i'm going to have time to iso superjolt _and _post conclusions/thoughts before EOD


----------



## sanderidge

i think i tend to do a lot of really long quote-heavy longposts and that. is not great for eod i don't think


----------



## Tangrowth

I am mildly concerned UC/SJ are v/v for no particular reason, but not sure what the better alternative is at this junction. Both slots are problematic and unlikely to be moved out of the POE.


----------



## Trebek

M Plus 7 said:


> Trebek said:
> 
> 
> 
> so while i will be around for EoD, 100% stuffs gonna happenen before i wake up, so ill just throw my vote for *mr ultracool* in now
> 
> partially bc my gut tells me that the inactive lynch is better and that we can get more out of keeping superjolt alive for another day (as opposed to UC)
> 
> and partially because unless im forgetting the vote count this helps to even up the wagons, and even is fun :p
> 
> 
> 
> See, there's something still bugging me about Trebek's posts. Maybe I'm crazy... I'll go look. But like... in Cats, he was nervous and over-explainy, but this feels different. It's like he has this sort of additional justification thing going on.
Click to expand...

to be perfectly honest, i thought the nervous overexplainy behavior was part of what got me in a weird position in Cats in the first place, so i was trying to back off on that


----------



## Keldeo

idk how I feel about Trebek's vote on Ultracool and Ysabel's vote on Superjolt. woweek



M Plus 7 said:


> Keldeo said:
> 
> 
> 
> I'm tempted to like sande's read on Skylar for it being similar to mine heh.
> 
> Noting that both sande and koko like each other for mindmelding.
> 
> Someone sanity check me on the statement: if Mr. Ultracool or Superjolt is mafia, their partner is probably not active itt right now.
> 
> 
> 
> Explain that logic please.
Click to expand...

People in the thread: you, kokorico, mewtini, sande. I already townread the first three, and even if not, no one is... like... doing anything to move the wagons away from this grouping. Popularity throws a wrench into this line of thinking, but I still think that's kind of weird if the wagons are v/w, as there's probably at least 2 town who'd get +1 popularity from a mafia flip here. Also, if they're w/w I definitely think their third partner would be trying to do something right now if they were here.


----------



## Tangrowth

sanderidge said:


> i think i tend to do a lot of really long quote-heavy longposts and that. is not great for eod i don't think


Interactions are better! How are you feeling about the gamestate? Could you throw down an updated reads list or something super quickly?


----------



## Tangrowth

Trebek said:


> M Plus 7 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Trebek said:
> 
> 
> 
> so while i will be around for EoD, 100% stuffs gonna happenen before i wake up, so ill just throw my vote for *mr ultracool* in now
> 
> partially bc my gut tells me that the inactive lynch is better and that we can get more out of keeping superjolt alive for another day (as opposed to UC)
> 
> and partially because unless im forgetting the vote count this helps to even up the wagons, and even is fun :p
> 
> 
> 
> See, there's something still bugging me about Trebek's posts. Maybe I'm crazy... I'll go look. But like... in Cats, he was nervous and over-explainy, but this feels different. It's like he has this sort of additional justification thing going on.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> to be perfectly honest, i thought the nervous overexplainy behavior was part of what got me in a weird position in Cats in the first place, so i was trying to back off on that
Click to expand...

I could just be picking up something NAI then, hmmm. Thanks.


----------



## Keldeo

M Plus 7 said:


> I am mildly concerned UC/SJ are v/v for no particular reason, but not sure what the better alternative is at this junction. Both slots are problematic and unlikely to be moved out of the POE.


I share your concerns. Do you think SJ could clear himself given more time or am I being misguided and soft there? Who would you want to flashwagon if anyone?


----------



## Tangrowth

Keldeo said:


> idk how I feel about Trebek's vote on Ultracool and Ysabel's vote on Superjolt. woweek
> 
> 
> 
> M Plus 7 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Keldeo said:
> 
> 
> 
> I'm tempted to like sande's read on Skylar for it being similar to mine heh.
> 
> Noting that both sande and koko like each other for mindmelding.
> 
> Someone sanity check me on the statement: if Mr. Ultracool or Superjolt is mafia, their partner is probably not active itt right now.
> 
> 
> 
> Explain that logic please.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> People in the thread: you, kokorico, mewtini, sande. I already townread the first three, and even if not, no one is... like... doing anything to move the wagons away from this grouping. Popularity throws a wrench into this line of thinking, but I still think that's kind of weird if the wagons are v/w, as there's probably at least 2 town who'd get +1 popularity from a mafia flip here. Also, if they're w/w I definitely think their third partner would be trying to do something right now if they were here.
Click to expand...

Okay, this makes sense. Sort of why I'm thinking they could be v/v actually.


----------



## mewtini

M Plus 7 said:


> I am mildly concerned UC/SJ are v/v for no particular reason, but not sure what the better alternative is at this junction. Both slots are problematic and unlikely to be moved out of the POE.


fwiw, i agree that ultracool probably ends up getting lynched at some point because of that last sentence - i would rather give people more time to talk about him/see his posting because his actual content does seem to be AI (comparing tvt to cats here)


----------



## mewtini

i kind of want to give superjolt more time but i also don't feel great about voting anywhere else now that i think i townlean koko lmao


----------



## Tangrowth

Keldeo said:


> M Plus 7 said:
> 
> 
> 
> I am mildly concerned UC/SJ are v/v for no particular reason, but not sure what the better alternative is at this junction. Both slots are problematic and unlikely to be moved out of the POE.
> 
> 
> 
> I share your concerns. Do you think SJ could clear himself given more time or am I being misguided and soft there? Who would you want to flashwagon if anyone?
Click to expand...

It is possible... I realize I had TMI in Cats, but I felt like SJ could display a towny spark there even if not in a pronounced way. I still sort of feel eh about leaving them alive though because personally I detected more towny there on d1 than here, but then again, TMI there, small sample size, etc.

My gut wants Ysabel on fire, but I have not had a chance to talk to them, and I would feel incredibly bad if I led a flashwagon there and was wrong. It's not the right play right now. Trebek is another possibility, but eh.


----------



## Trebek

yeah, i highly doubt that the wagons are w/w, bc if they were i feel like at least one of them would be “self defense” pushing the other.

and honestly even if it is v/v idk where else i would want to hang a vote on right now

tempted to switch my vote after reading all of the posts about it, and honestly was tempted to vote there in the first place, but i want to hang onto even wagons for a bit longer, since there’s still a fair bit of time :p


----------



## Keldeo

mewtini said:


> his actual content does seem to be AI (comparing tvt to cats here)


Can you talk about this? I think I'm biased because I knew he was mafia in Cats and knew he was town for most of TVTropes (since Eifie mech cleared him).


----------



## Keldeo

Trebek said:


> yeah, i highly doubt that the wagons are w/w, bc if they were i feel like at least one of them would be “self defense” pushing the other.
> 
> and honestly even if it is v/v idk where else i would want to hang a vote on right now
> 
> tempted to switch my vote after reading all of the posts about it, and honestly was tempted to vote there in the first place, but i want to hang onto even wagons for a bit longer, since there’s still a fair bit of time :p


What did you glean from reactions / vote movement after you made the wagons even?


----------



## Tangrowth

Keldeo said:


> Mewtini, can you go a little more into the tonal differences between Cats Superjolt and here Superjolt? I may be excusing the depth difference too much because of the different circumstances, but I do think the circumstances are different enough... going off memory and like a 5-minute ISO skim of Cats, so I’ll dive back into that if I have time.
> 
> 
> ftr, from what I know, MP7 has a high volume ceiling as both alignments. My impression is that her volume is much more indicative of her time to play than her alignment.
> 
> If she is “powerwolfing” (townreading partners and scumreading town), that doesn’t bode well for my reads because I think we have pretty similar ones, heh. Of course mafia might be conscious of their popularity, though.


This is a selfish thing and I realize EoD is pending, so we can talk about this later, but... I will absolutely need you to talk about your read on me more. Then again, I've been purposefully pushing my read of you to the back of my brain repeatedly, so I don't want to hold you to an unfair standard. Let's circle back.


----------



## Trebek

actually, hot take:

if the wagons are v/v, who is currently not voting? this is sorta what i was thinking of when i made the post ™ that seems to be getting quoted a lot

if wagons are v/v mafia know their popularity will go down so they might try to avoid voting and let town self destruct


----------



## mewtini

i probably don't have time to dig atm but i think he threw way more shade in cats than he did in tvt. in tropes i remember him posting sort of, like, naively - stuff like "eifie seems like an alien" because she joked around so much, making overliteral reads, etc. which he didn't really do in cats (instead trying to shade VM for asking skylar about why she said "i know who the vig is," going back and forth on emmy)


----------



## Trebek

Keldeo said:


> Trebek said:
> 
> 
> 
> yeah, i highly doubt that the wagons are w/w, bc if they were i feel like at least one of them would be “self defense” pushing the other.
> 
> and honestly even if it is v/v idk where else i would want to hang a vote on right now
> 
> tempted to switch my vote after reading all of the posts about it, and honestly was tempted to vote there in the first place, but i want to hang onto even wagons for a bit longer, since there’s still a fair bit of time :p
> 
> 
> 
> What did you glean from reactions / vote movement after you made the wagons even?
Click to expand...

nothing much yet, which is why i’m staying here for now


----------



## Novae

What are the wagons tbh


----------



## Tangrowth

Trebek said:


> actually, hot take:
> 
> if the wagons are v/v, who is currently not voting? this is sorta what i was thinking of when i made the post ™ that seems to be getting quoted a lot
> 
> if wagons are v/v mafia know their popularity will go down so they might try to avoid voting and let town self destruct


I'm not even sure I agree with this, but I like the thought.


----------



## Tangrowth

Mist1422 said:


> What are the wagons tbh


Superjolt and Ultracool 3/3 I believe. There is a bit of concern that they are v/v, but both slots are... probably always in the POE.


----------



## mewtini

Mist1422 said:


> What are the wagons tbh


superjolt and ultracool, wagons are tied


----------



## Novae

Oh UC and Jolt

lemme look


----------



## Trebek

M Plus 7 said:


> Trebek said:
> 
> 
> 
> actually, hot take:
> 
> if the wagons are v/v, who is currently not voting? this is sorta what i was thinking of when i made the post ™ that seems to be getting quoted a lot
> 
> if wagons are v/v mafia know their popularity will go down so they might try to avoid voting and let town self destruct
> 
> 
> 
> I'm not even sure I agree with this, but I like the thought.
Click to expand...

i don’t think it’s a catch-all “people who aren’t voting are mafia”, i just want to have things to mull over during the night phase, and this seemed like an interesting point


----------



## Zori

kokorico said:


> Seshas said:
> 
> 
> 
> mewtini votes Seshas [->1] (#14)
> *Mist1422 votes Seshas [->2] (#19)*
> mewtini votes Seshas -> Eifie [1->1] (#63)
> Trebek votes Stealth Rock [->1] (#111)
> Trebek votes Stealth Rock -> mewtini [0->1] (#216)
> Trebek unvotes mewtini [0->] (#217)
> mewtini votes Eifie -> kyeugh [0->1] (#219)
> _mewtini unvotes kyeugh [0->] (#223)_
> Trebek votes Seshas [->2] (#226)
> _Trebek unvotes Seshas [1->] (#243)_
> *Keldeo votes Superjolt [->1] (#317)*
> 
> 
> 
> Hey Seshas, I get that the bold entries are active votes, but is there any meaning to the italicised ones?
Click to expand...




kyeugh said:


> oops, this isn’t my dm with the gms.





Seshas said:


> thank you mewtini for ninja'ing me with a correct votecount because I was about to post a wrong one
> 
> _Votecount (#664):_
> *Superjolt* | 3 | Ysabel (#362), M Plus 7 (#570), mewtini (#575)
> *Mr. Ultracool* | 3 | Keldeo (#574), Trebek (#584), kokorico (#644)
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Vote History
> 
> 
> 
> Trebek votes mewtini [->1] (#216)
> Trebek unvotes mewtini [0->] (#217)
> mewtini votes kyeugh [->1] (#219)
> mewtini unvotes kyeugh [0->] (#223)
> Keldeo votes Superjolt [->1] (#317)
> *Ysabel votes Superjolt [->2] (#362)*
> M Plus 7 votes Trebek [->1] (#407)
> M Plus 7 votes Trebek -> kokorico [0->1] (#467)
> Keldeo unvotes Superjolt [1->] (#517)
> M Plus 7 unvotes kokorico [0->] (#532)
> *M Plus 7 votes Superjolt [->2] (#570)
> Keldeo votes Mr. Ultracool [->1] (#574)
> mewtini votes Superjolt [->3] (#575)
> Trebek votes Mr. Ultracool [->2] (#584)
> kokorico votes Mr. Ultracool [->3] (#644)*


10 minutes remain in day.
No changes have been made since this votecount.


----------



## Tangrowth

Actually, I just found a reason Keldeo is town. I'm very uncharacteristically holding it close to my chest for now. Just trust me on this. I'll re-evaluate if necessary, but nah, Keldeo can definitely be town.


----------



## Novae

So options are a 0-poster or someone who has not been particularly scummy

Hmm.


----------



## Zori

so um
that happened
ignore the top two quotes


----------



## Tangrowth

@Mr. Ultracool

Please grace us with your presence! It would be awesome!


----------



## Keldeo

Townreads but be wary: mewtini, kokorico, Blu, MP7
Julia: Julia
Tonal memes read: kyeugh, sanderidge
Hmm: Mist, Superjolt, Ysabel, Trebek, Ultracool
?????

btw I think Mist pointing out stuff like not talking about the popularity to stop scum from PR hunting was pro-town / "helpful" (in a mostly-NAI way probably) and I'm curious why @Ysabel didn't think so.


----------



## mewtini

Mist1422 said:


> someone who has not been particularly scummy


i think this sort of comparison between jolt's early catsgame and here is what makes me lean here, if it helps


----------



## Tangrowth

Superjolt said:


> mewtini said:
> 
> 
> 
> i'm actually going to go to sleep now, lol. not sure if i'll be back before EoD because i have stuff from like, 12 until 3pm/EoD and it's like 4am so who knows if i'll get up significantly earlier tbh. so i'll vibe on *superjolt* (still irked by his reads before and the tonal difference between those and the catsposting) and hopefully make it back in time for everything
> 
> 
> 
> I admit my reads aren’t great, but that’s where I’m at. I’m kind of just really having a hard time reading everyone here, despite partially playing in/spectating Cats I still don’t really know anyone here that well yet and then there’s even players here that weren’t even in Cats. I was already kind of struggling with how I wanted to approach things in this game but being hit with a wave of exhaustion has just kind of killed it for me... I’ve slept a total of maybe 7 hours the past few nights combined
> 
> Kind of just looking at the thread and trying to think about things but my brain is like “nope” so I’m kind of frustrated
> 
> Trying to read but kind of skipped chunks of the thread, but uh did anyone have anything for me that I might’ve missed?
Click to expand...

I think I don't want to be on Superjolt anymore. This reads genuine.


----------



## Novae

T O N A L M E M E S R E A D

anywayat first glance I like trebek bringing up the point about mafia not voting tbh


----------



## Keldeo

Sure, MP, hold me to talking more about you later. I'm also interested in what your tell on me is about.



Keldeo said:


> Townreads but be wary: mewtini, kokorico, Blu, MP7


The be wary header here is because I have not seen mewtini, Blu, or MP play as mafia firsthand. And kokorico did the thing I found towny only once - I'm not going to talk about it yet because I want to see if e keeps doing it.


----------



## Tangrowth

M Plus 7 said:


> Superjolt said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> mewtini said:
> 
> 
> 
> i'm actually going to go to sleep now, lol. not sure if i'll be back before EoD because i have stuff from like, 12 until 3pm/EoD and it's like 4am so who knows if i'll get up significantly earlier tbh. so i'll vibe on *superjolt* (still irked by his reads before and the tonal difference between those and the catsposting) and hopefully make it back in time for everything
> 
> 
> 
> I admit my reads aren’t great, but that’s where I’m at. I’m kind of just really having a hard time reading everyone here, despite partially playing in/spectating Cats I still don’t really know anyone here that well yet and then there’s even players here that weren’t even in Cats. I was already kind of struggling with how I wanted to approach things in this game but being hit with a wave of exhaustion has just kind of killed it for me... I’ve slept a total of maybe 7 hours the past few nights combined
> 
> Kind of just looking at the thread and trying to think about things but my brain is like “nope” so I’m kind of frustrated
> 
> Trying to read but kind of skipped chunks of the thread, but uh did anyone have anything for me that I might’ve missed?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I think I don't want to be on Superjolt anymore. This reads genuine.
Click to expand...

Then again... it could be easy enough to fake. Hmmm. What is the emotion here and is it alignment indicative. That is the question.


----------



## Novae

mewtini said:


> Mist1422 said:
> 
> 
> 
> someone who has not been particularly scummy
> 
> 
> 
> i think this sort of comparison between jolt's early catsgame and here is what makes me lean here, if it helps
Click to expand...

I guess?

I just liked his like, calm questioning under pressure


----------



## Keldeo

mewtini said:


> i probably don't have time to dig atm but i think he threw way more shade in cats than he did in tvt. in tropes i remember him posting sort of, like, naively - stuff like "eifie seems like an alien" because she joked around so much, making overliteral reads, etc. which he didn't really do in cats (instead trying to shade VM for asking skylar about why she said "i know who the vig is," going back and forth on emmy)


Oh, I get what you mean! I think serimachi made the Eifie alien read, though, haha.


----------



## Tangrowth

Keldeo said:


> Sure, MP, hold me to talking more about you later. I'm also interested in what your tell on me is about.
> 
> 
> 
> Keldeo said:
> 
> 
> 
> Townreads but be wary: mewtini, kokorico, Blu, MP7
> 
> 
> 
> The be wary header here is because I have not seen mewtini, Blu, or MP play as mafia firsthand. And kokorico did the thing I found towny only once - I'm not going to talk about it yet because I want to see if e keeps doing it.
Click to expand...

It's an emotion thing. I'd be happy to talk to you about it later if it becomes relevant.


----------



## Tangrowth

Mist1422 said:


> mewtini said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mist1422 said:
> 
> 
> 
> someone who has not been particularly scummy
> 
> 
> 
> i think this sort of comparison between jolt's early catsgame and here is what makes me lean here, if it helps
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I guess?
> 
> I just liked his like, calm questioning under pressure
Click to expand...

Why would you like that?


----------



## sanderidge

M Plus 7 said:


> sanderidge said:
> 
> 
> 
> i think i tend to do a lot of really long quote-heavy longposts and that. is not great for eod i don't think
> 
> 
> 
> Interactions are better! How are you feeling about the gamestate? Could you throw down an updated reads list or something super quickly?
Click to expand...

hello!! i'm feeling kind of weird about not knowing what exactly happened in the second half + realizing our memory problems probably are not great for playing mafia, especially with any realtime things. also i haven't voted yet and i feel like i need to so that's making me feel a little nervous 

current reads, minus me:
Julia -- not sure about; putting aside for later, since i think the only thing she's posted is entrance/not knowing what mafia is so far? i would feel bad taking out a newer player really early though
Mist1422 -- lower neutral feelings; i feel like they've said helpful things but i don't remember what. have they been around recently?? 
Mr. Ultracool -- ??????? have they posted at all?
Bluwiikoon -- i've talked about them a fair amount so far, i think; i feel like they're sitting right at neutral because i'm not actually reading their tone to be that... town-indicative? 
Superjolt -- also ????? i remember they posted on the first day and a throwaway comment about their hat but not much else. 
kyeugh -- feeling good!! for reasons mentioned in my last longer post
kokorico -- also feeling good because we're thinking similarly about blu and also about skylar i think
M Plus 7 -- good-neutral! i think you're doing Solvy Things?
Ysabel -- solid neutral? i'm not really sure what they're doing when they are asking and answering questions; it doesn't feel as productive to me, but i do think they might have good ideas / do want to help 
Keldeo -- instinct says Trust Keldeo lol but that instinct is from when i was reading cats mafia and thought he was town -_-
mewtini -- good-neutral! i am also going Trust Mewt from when i read cats mafia and bc i feel like they've been doing good Poking At People's Thoughts
Trebek -- solid neutral? i just... don't think i remember a lot about what they've posted aside from that early pointing out about mafia and popularity and wagons

if we're looking at current wagons i think i'll go* ultracool* because i don't remember a _single_ post from them, vs others in neutral and good where i do remember at least some things.


----------



## mewtini

Keldeo said:


> I think serimachi made the Eifie alien read, though, haha.


oh oops! yes.


----------



## Novae

sanderidge said:


> if we're looking at current wagons i think i'll go* ultracool* because i don't remember a _single_ post from them, vs others in neutral and good where i do remember at least some things.


Ultra cool has not posted tbh!


----------



## sanderidge

someone: quick reads?
me: longposts again


----------



## Novae

M Plus 7 said:


> Mist1422 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> mewtini said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mist1422 said:
> 
> 
> 
> someone who has not been particularly scummy
> 
> 
> 
> i think this sort of comparison between jolt's early catsgame and here is what makes me lean here, if it helps
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I guess?
> 
> I just liked his like, calm questioning under pressure
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Why would you like that?
Click to expand...

it doesn’t fit with how a survival-minded mafia would react or is well-faked if so


----------



## Novae

I have keldeo as town tbh


----------



## Tangrowth

sanderidge said:


> M Plus 7 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> sanderidge said:
> 
> 
> 
> i think i tend to do a lot of really long quote-heavy longposts and that. is not great for eod i don't think
> 
> 
> 
> Interactions are better! How are you feeling about the gamestate? Could you throw down an updated reads list or something super quickly?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> hello!! i'm feeling kind of weird about not knowing what exactly happened in the second half + realizing our memory problems probably are not great for playing mafia, especially with any realtime things. also i haven't voted yet and i feel like i need to so that's making me feel a little nervous
> 
> current reads, minus me:
> Julia -- not sure about; putting aside for later, since i think the only thing she's posted is entrance/not knowing what mafia is so far? i would feel bad taking out a newer player really early though
> Mist1422 -- lower neutral feelings; i feel like they've said helpful things but i don't remember what. have they been around recently??
> Mr. Ultracool -- ??????? have they posted at all?
> Bluwiikoon -- i've talked about them a fair amount so far, i think; i feel like they're sitting right at neutral because i'm not actually reading their tone to be that... town-indicative?
> Superjolt -- also ????? i remember they posted on the first day and a throwaway comment about their hat but not much else.
> kyeugh -- feeling good!! for reasons mentioned in my last longer post
> kokorico -- also feeling good because we're thinking similarly about blu and also about skylar i think
> M Plus 7 -- good-neutral! i think you're doing Solvy Things?
> Ysabel -- solid neutral? i'm not really sure what they're doing when they are asking and answering questions; it doesn't feel as productive to me, but i do think they might have good ideas / do want to help
> Keldeo -- instinct says Trust Keldeo lol but that instinct is from when i was reading cats mafia and thought he was town -_-
> mewtini -- good-neutral! i am also going Trust Mewt from when i read cats mafia and bc i feel like they've been doing good Poking At People's Thoughts
> Trebek -- solid neutral? i just... don't think i remember a lot about what they've posted aside from that early pointing out about mafia and popularity and wagons
> 
> if we're looking at current wagons i think i'll go* ultracool* because i don't remember a _single_ post from them, vs others in neutral and good where i do remember at least some things.
Click to expand...

Thanks for this. Let's talk more later!

My gut frowns at that reads list, but... not something I want to flashwagon for sure. Hmmm.


----------



## Trebek

yeah, i’m really wavering on how i’m reading superjolt, bc like i get the points that are being brought up but i also just thought that one post that MP7 brought up felt gut good

ugh idk


----------



## Keldeo

sande do you have any major or minor suspicions?


----------



## Zori

_Votecount (#715):_
*Mr. Ultracool* | 4 | Keldeo (#574), Trebek (#584), kokorico (#644), sanderidge (#706)
Superjolt | 3 | Ysabel (#362), M Plus 7 (#570), mewtini (#575)



Spoiler: Vote History



Trebek votes mewtini [->1] (#216)
Trebek unvotes mewtini [0->] (#217)
mewtini votes kyeugh [->1] (#219)
mewtini unvotes kyeugh [0->] (#223)
Keldeo votes Superjolt [->1] (#317)
*Ysabel votes Superjolt [->2] (#362)*
M Plus 7 votes Trebek [->1] (#407)
M Plus 7 votes Trebek -> kokorico [0->1] (#467)
Keldeo unvotes Superjolt [1->] (#517)
M Plus 7 unvotes kokorico [0->] (#532)
*M Plus 7 votes Superjolt [->2] (#570)
Keldeo votes Mr. Ultracool [->1] (#574)
mewtini votes Superjolt [->3] (#575)
Trebek votes Mr. Ultracool [->2] (#584)
kokorico votes Mr. Ultracool [->3] (#644)
sanderidge votes Mr. Ultracool [->4] (#706)*


----------



## qenya

Seshas said:


> so um
> that happened
> ignore the top two quotes


I was about to ask rofl



Keldeo said:


> btw I think Mist pointing out stuff like not talking about the popularity to stop scum from PR hunting was pro-town / "helpful" (in a mostly-NAI way probably) and I'm curious why @Ysabel didn't think so.


Speaking as someone who pretty much agreed with Ysabel: it's not that the popularity thing was unhelpful, it's that it was pretty much the _only_ helpful thing amongst a lot of posts in the vein of "I don't know anything! :(".


----------



## Tangrowth

I suppose the wagons are fine.


----------



## mewtini

man i kind of don't want to lynch ultracool today >:

i think we're at 4 uc/3 sj now


----------



## Tangrowth

Mist1422 said:


> M Plus 7 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mist1422 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> mewtini said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mist1422 said:
> 
> 
> 
> someone who has not been particularly scummy
> 
> 
> 
> i think this sort of comparison between jolt's early catsgame and here is what makes me lean here, if it helps
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I guess?
> 
> I just liked his like, calm questioning under pressure
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Why would you like that?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> it doesn’t fit with how a survival-minded mafia would react or is well-faked if so
Click to expand...

My notions of that must be different than yours, but it's a minor point.


----------



## Novae

I suppose I will most likely be abstaining this EoD tbh

I would have a PoE of {Jolt, Julia, sande, kyeugh} off of simple gut vibes


----------



## mewtini

mewtini said:


> man i kind of don't want to lynch ultracool today >:
> 
> i think we're at 4 uc/3 sj now


the thing i said about his posting earlier is what's giving me pause, because i think we could semi-figure him out later maybe (+ extra interaction reads)


----------



## sanderidge

Keldeo said:


> sande do you have any major or minor suspicions?


DISCOVERED THE REPLY BUTTON
major: ysabel??? that's the person i feel Iffiest about
minor: trebek?


----------



## Tangrowth

My gut wants to flashwagon sande, lmao. Okay, yeah, don't do that.


----------



## Novae

*Superjolt* 

Bad reads go!


----------



## Tangrowth

M Plus 7 said:


> My gut wants to flashwagon sande, lmao. Okay, yeah, don't do that.


My gut is sort of insane this game. It wants to set more players on fire than usual?


----------



## Novae

M Plus 7 said:


> My gut wants to flashwagon sande, lmao. Okay, yeah, don't do that.


maybe tomorrow I would be down for this


----------



## Zori

*----------------------Day has ended.-------------------------*​


----------



## Keldeo

I bet Eifie is yelling at me. 

Trust my top townreads and like nothing else I've posted if it comes to that lol.

glgl


----------



## Tangrowth

Mist1422 said:


> I suppose I will most likely be abstaining this EoD tbh
> 
> I would have a PoE of {Jolt, Julia, sande, kyeugh} off of simple gut vibes


I can dig that PoE alright.


----------



## Trebek

ok wow noon came faster than i expected

so much for “i like these wagons and we have a fair bit of time left”

FML


----------



## Zori

_Votecount (#715):_
*Mr. Ultracool* | 4 | Keldeo (#574), Trebek (#584), kokorico (#644), sanderidge (#706)
*Superjolt* | 4 | Ysabel (#362), M Plus 7 (#570), mewtini (#575), Mist1422 (#724)



Spoiler: Vote History



Trebek votes mewtini [->1] (#216)
Trebek unvotes mewtini [0->] (#217)
mewtini votes kyeugh [->1] (#219)
mewtini unvotes kyeugh [0->] (#223)
Keldeo votes Superjolt [->1] (#317)
*Ysabel votes Superjolt [->2] (#362)*
M Plus 7 votes Trebek [->1] (#407)
M Plus 7 votes Trebek -> kokorico [0->1] (#467)
Keldeo unvotes Superjolt [1->] (#517)
M Plus 7 unvotes kokorico [0->] (#532)
*M Plus 7 votes Superjolt [->2] (#570)
Keldeo votes Mr. Ultracool [->1] (#574)
mewtini votes Superjolt [->3] (#575)
Trebek votes Mr. Ultracool [->2] (#584)
kokorico votes Mr. Ultracool [->3] (#644)
sanderidge votes Mr. Ultracool [->4] (#706)
Mist1422 votes Superjolt [->4] (#724)*



If any errors have been made, PM me and Emmy before 19:15 UTC.
Flip (+rand) will be happening then.


----------



## Trebek

it’s popularity time boizzzz


----------



## Zori

*Mr. Ultracool has died. They were a Snom. (Not Mafia)

Night 1 Begins. It will end in 23.75 hours.*
Emmy will post flavor when she gets online probably.​


Spoiler: Pings



@JuliaTheSeaTurtleQueen
@Mist1422
@Mr. Ultracool
@Bluwiikoon
@sanderidge
@Superjolt
@kyeugh
@kokorico
@M Plus 7
@Ysabel
@Keldeo
@mewtini
@Trebek





Spoiler: Game Summary



*N0

D1*
Mr. Ultracool has died. They were a *Snom*.


----------



## IndigoClaudia

Alright. After A tie between Superjolt and Ultracool, snombody decides to flip a coin. Hey! It's Ultracool!

*stabby time...*

Mr Ultracool has died. They were an innocent snom.


----------



## Zori

Night ends in 15 minutes, night results going out
hopefully Emmy gets online soon for flavor


----------



## Zori

*kokorico has died. E was a Snom.

Day 2 Begins. It will end in 48 hours.*
Emmy will post flavor at some point in time maybe? If not then I might make a sad attempt tbh​


Spoiler: Pings



@JuliaTheSeaTurtleQueen
@Mist1422
@Bluwiikoon
@sanderidge
@Superjolt
@kyeugh
@M Plus 7
@Ysabel
@Keldeo
@mewtini
@Trebek





Spoiler: Game Summary



*N0

D1*
Mr. Ultracool has died. They were a *Snom*.

*N1*
kokorico has died. E was a *Snom*.



*go go go*


----------



## Ys_

Keldeo said:


> (I say this as someone who pushes back on townreads of me for incorrect reasons to get cred as either alignment (thus Ysabel's townread on me for pushing back against koko's townread of me is for incorrect reasons!))


Ah, I didn't know that, lol. I was thinking that if I was mafia and somene townread me I wouldn't bother that much to contradict them. Meanwhile, as town, I do question townreads of me for superficial reasons because I start thinking that they are trying to pocket me. In that case, my lean isn't as strong since that was something I was, in fact, focusing on.



Superjolt said:


> Ysabel said:
> 
> 
> 
> My questions to people like Mist or SJ is because I'm trying to get a better read on them and I prefer to ask them things to get a better read and I want to understand their thought process
> 
> 
> 
> Did you have something for me? Which post? I know you’re voting me but I can’t really remember why rn
Click to expand...

https://forums.dragonflycave.com/threads/snom-mafia.18683/post-686841

This was the post where I asked my questions. I think you replied to them, though, but you can check. And my reason for voting for you was more POE than anything + you being at the bottom of my townreads apart from the inactive people (Mr Ultracool, Julia)



Keldeo said:


> Quiet EOD, huh. I guess I'll try to write something about people I haven't written about.
> 
> Having a bit of trouble gauging kyeugh tbh. I guess I'd expect more pointed suspicions or pushes from her as mafia...? This is what I called agendaedness last night. I guess you could say that her talking about reasons to not townread like me / mewtini / Blu fits that mold, but I also think what she pointed out is reasonable about everyone.
> 
> idk lol, Ysabel linking her meta is straightforwardly towny/helpful, but she mentioned that she tries to be helpful as mafia, and so it's probably something she'd do to be "helpful" as either alignment. I skimmed a couple posts from her ISO there and it seems tonally similar so I'm guessing my worries about that are just a her thing. She maybe seized more on things she was suspicious of. I don't love meta reading games I wasn't in.


I wouldn’t necessarily link to a game of me as town, but fair. And lol also keep in mind that game was far less active than this one so maybe my brain was less scattered.



Keldeo said:


> Also, I'm on koko town right now, and mafia Superjolt _probably_ could jump on koko instead of hedging out of an initial bad impression in that first post.


What made you change your mind on Koko since as I recall you said you were suspicious of him? And what made you decide to jump to Mr Ultracool instead of Superjolt?



M Plus 7 said:


> Ysabel said:
> 
> 
> 
> And as for throwing shade on inactives/my reads.. I generally look at people's posts' quality rather than quantity, their tone and general disposition to help. Mist s posts just seemed to me like they weren't focused on the game but more on mech things.
> 
> 
> 
> @Ysabel
> You and I need to interact at some point! I'll see what I can do to make that happen.
> 
> Of course. Hi!
> 
> I'm particularly intrigued in an elaboration on the underlined, but it doesn't have to happen at EoD for sure.
> 
> What I meant with Mist is that they had a bunch posts with no real content to them. I was using them as an example for that one, but it seemed to me like the less actives also had less content on their posts. Basically, I was trying to say that I’m not trying to throw shade on the inactives *for being inactive *but rather *for having less content in their posts.*
> 
> Also remember when Keldeo asked Koko about why e townread him? I was thinking that I agreed because I also townread him, but Keldeo said he had only made four posts. And I was thinking "sure, only four posts, but they had good content/seemed helpful." Mewtini has like a billion posts, but all of them read like trying to help in some way. Except the jokey posts, but from what I saw on TVT that's more common here than in my home forum. So I would be more on Mewt’s case if most of her posts were jokey or had less content. What you're doing is interesting, because you're posting your thoughts as you read, so you post many small posts, but I like the thoughtfulness I've seen from them so far.
Click to expand...




Keldeo said:


> btw I think Mist pointing out stuff like not talking about the popularity to stop scum from PR hunting was pro-town / "helpful" (in a mostly-NAI way probably) and I'm curious why @Ysabel didn't think so.


It’s not that I didn’t think so as much as I saw it as only one helpful post amongst the other memey posts he made. More on that in my ISO.
Also, as a note, in my home forum flavors mean nothing, so this mechanic of getting hints from flavors actually comes as a surprise, but I’m in the mentality of it not really mattering unless it’s something more pressing like Kyeugh losing a point on the cred scale. Otherwise I’ll just sort of follow along/ take your word for it.




Keldeo said:


> Ysabel said:
> 
> 
> 
> And as for throwing shade on inactives/my reads.. I generally look at people's posts' quality rather than quantity, their tone and general disposition to help. Mist s posts just seemed to me like they weren't focused on the game but more on mech things.
> 
> 
> 
> How do you differentiate Mist's focus on mechanics from Trebek's focus on mechanics prior to your first reads post?
Click to expand...

If you recall, I never mentioned Mist in my first reads post, then I said I would ISO the rest. Mist popped into my mind then, as someone who hadn’t posted much or very substantially and who hadn’t been questioned much. I didn’t necessarily differentiate him from Trebek, but I noticed Trebek more.

Doing the ISO, though

My reads post was in #275, so:



Spoiler: Trebek ISO






Trebek said:


> the real question is, if town decides to try to yeet someone today, it will be interesting to see how mafia react around the wagons, since they know how it will affect their popularity and we don’t


People already talked about this, but it's not talking about a mechanic, rather about how the mechanic will affect the game.


Trebek said:


> mewtini said:
> 
> 
> 
> voting idea is interesting! though i kind of feel like it's really dependent on town voting consensus? i guess we will cross that bridge when we get to it though, i agree that people with lower popularity scores should probably be careful either way :O
> 
> 
> 
> yeah, i wonder if there’s some bias between “town consensus is to vote on X” and X being mafia if a consensus is able to be made
Click to expand...

He is pondering the idea, not immediately saying no or yes. And ig I can see where he is coming from. If a concensus is made, and the mafias manage to take the lead for this concensus, then they will steer town and the rep to vote for town. I didn't look at it that way at the time, but it''s a completely fair point.


Trebek said:


> the other issue i have with representatives is that it seems easy for mafia to weasel themselves into the process, maybe even electing a member of their own as the rep?


See, again, I see what he meant now. Still not following on the mafia electing a rep thing unless it was to vote on another mafia if there was no other choice and gaining popularity points that way. (It's a moot point either way, but that's my reasoning)


Trebek said:


> mewtini said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Trebek said:
> 
> 
> 
> the other issue i have with representatives is that it seems easy for mafia to weasel themselves into the process, maybe even electing a member of their own as the rep?
> 
> 
> 
> yeah also this, esp since we inevitably kind of lose the spontaneity of EoD this way :p
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> yeah, i just have bad Vibes about a mafia member becoming the representative and “oh no i wasn’t around to vote” if the votes on maf
Click to expand...

Another good point, though if the mafia did do this, disappearing at the EoD, they would still get suspicions from town.


Trebek said:


> Keldeo said:
> 
> 
> 
> Particularly, mewtini/Trebek, I'm interested if you have any thoughts on Ysabel for proposing her plan, given that you seem to disagree with it.
> 
> 
> 
> i think i’m in agreement with mewt here mostly? like, i disagree with the idea on a pragmatic level but i don’t disagree with the mindset that comes up with that idea, if that makes any sense
> 
> i’m only half alive so just keeping up with posts and not really thinking too hard about reads currently, but will answer questions!
Click to expand...

Again, not being dismissive and outrightly saying 'heck no!' rather it was more of a 'hmmm, I see where she may have been coming from, but it's not a practical idea' which is fair enough.



Trebek said:


> Ysabel said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Trebek said:
> 
> 
> 
> the other issue i have with representatives is that it seems easy for mafia to weasel themselves into the process, maybe even electing a member of their own as the rep?
> 
> 
> 
> I don't disagree, but can you expand on this please? Why is that bad?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> my concern i think got more generally/succinctly explained by keldeo, which is just the overall issues with consensus voting not hitting mafia. i was mostly just thinking about mafia pushing a consensus towards a townie, and then since only the representative votes it becomes a lot harder to analyze who was pushing to kill town
Click to expand...

Hmm, a mafia may not push as hard for this, and he did give other sound reasons for it. (Which as I'm thinking of it now, it seems more solid than just saying it takes away from the organicness of trains, but I still see validness to both of those points.)





Spoiler: Mist's ISO






Mist1422 said:


> hmm
> 
> now I wonder if someone's role made sande+SJ crossed out in the pinglist, or if that means anything


They point it out but not really offer any insight


Mist1422 said:


> oh
> 
> if there aren't we definitely do not hypocop because like, there's no point if we can't actually figure the cop out when they die


Good point, admittedly, but they weren't the first to point hypocopping being bad, so loses the merit a bit.


Mist1422 said:


> see
> 
> rolling town was the most disappointing thing because I really, really wanted to lolfox


I don't have anything aout this actually, since I see it as memeing but it could be a genuine sentiment too. Slight townlean but I wouldn't put too much focus into it.


Mist1422 said:


> Or we could ignore popularity entirely in order to stop mafia from being able to PR hunt as well tbh


Sure, that's a(nother) valid point.


Mist1422 said:


> no thoughts
> head empty
> mewtini town





Mist1422 said:


> am no thoughts head empty but I’m just getting the same vibes from mewtini that I did in cats (2019)


You guys seem to put a lot of stack into tone from other games. Not something I could do so I'll just have to take your word for it, though it's also not the only thing you guys should focus on. IMO.


Mist1422 said:


> Does voting for potential third parties affect popularity?


Actually, I think this is the post I remembered as being focused on mechanics. It's something from my home forum where we weren't very keen on focusing on third parties if mafia was a bigger threat. One, a mafia could post this as "look at me, I'm helping," but without really being helpful and two, they would have more reason to be weary of third parties to ask.



So kek, I don't really see Mist and Trebek as being the same at all. Actually, after ISOing, I'm more convinced of Trebek's towniness. And it’s partly what I mean with preferring less posts with more content, too. Trebek has more content in his posts than Mist in theirs.


----------



## mewtini

koko's sad react omfg no

i have some qs that i'll write out at some point soonish. it looks like this means there's no vig ... ? that or they got messed with somehow (even-night? doctor?)


----------



## Ys_

BTW sorry I wasn't here at EoD. I fell asleep a bit after making my last post.
RIP Koko.
I'll be on later. Social RL time!


----------



## Trebek

the only major Thought that i was able to come up with regarding the votes yesterDay is that i have a feeling the wagons were v/v: not sure how the wagons end up in a tie if this is not the case...


----------



## mewtini

mewtini said:


> koko's sad react omfg no
> 
> i have some qs that i'll write out at some point soonish. it looks like this means there's no vig ... ? that or they got messed with somehow (even-night? doctor?)


er, or oneshot, or ultracool was vig.



Trebek said:


> i have a feeling the wagons were v/v: not sure how the wagons end up in a tie if this is not the case...


can you explain this more
we had a w/v wagon that effectively got tied up in cats


----------



## Trebek

mewtini said:


> Trebek said:
> 
> 
> 
> i have a feeling the wagons were v/v: not sure how the wagons end up in a tie if this is not the case...
> 
> 
> 
> can you explain this more
> we had a w/v wagon that effectively got tied up in cats
Click to expand...

yeah, but that wagon was chaotic and had last minute switches: the votes yesterday were very slow and drawn out, and it seemed easier to keep track of vote count than it was in cats D2


----------



## Trebek

also, i feel like the numbers in this game mean that the mafia should be less willing to bus than they were in cats? maybe i’m thinking about that wrong


----------



## mewtini

questions from last nite's readthrough

- @sanderidge in 650 you say this:


sanderidge said:


> this is a Good Poast and i feel good about trebek for it. there is literally nothing else i remember trebek posting so, uh, that's the Only Thing for me in their favor so far, but i feel like that's significant


but then list trebek as being somewhat suspicious not much later (in 722). wondering what your thought process is there

- @Trebek you mentioned being fine with the wagons not long before EoD but were clearly sort of stressed by how it actually ended ... ? were you hoping for some sort of change?

- @Keldeo i was wondering if you could elaborate on your thought in 670, though it's fine if not tbh


Keldeo said:


> idk how I feel about Trebek's vote on Ultracool and Ysabel's vote on Superjolt. woweek


- @Mist1422 interested in the takes you mentioned tbh! also you mentioned having interest in a sande flashwagon (as did @M Plus 7) so i was curious about why


----------



## mewtini

also @Superjolt if/when you get the time to catch up, interested in what you thought of EoD
and i had a question for koko but. rip. >:



Spoiler: tierlist post-readthrough, loosely ordered









mewtini
@Eifie <3






trebek, blu, keldeo, mp7, skylar






_apparently this is a guy shrugging??!_
sande, ysabel, julia, mist, jolt


----------



## mewtini

i said loosely ordered and then proceeded to not really use any order tbh.


----------



## Trebek

mewtini said:


> - @Trebek you mentioned being fine with the wagons not long before EoD but were clearly sort of stressed by how it actually ended ... ? were you hoping for some sort of change?


i was frankly just hoping for _more stuff_ to happen: i was hoping that keeping the wagons even would prompt claims and last minute vote hopping and other analyzable things, and instead the day just sorta lazily limped its way to the finish line


----------



## Trebek

mewtini said:


> also @Superjolt if/when you get the time to catch up, interested in what you thought of EoD
> and i had a question for koko but. rip. >:
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler: tierlist post-readthrough, loosely ordered
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> mewtini
> @Eifie <3
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> trebek, blu, keldeo, mp7, skylar
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _apparently this is a guy shrugging??!_
> sande, ysabel, julia, mist, jolt


these tier list images are getting out of hand tbh


----------



## Trebek

also, tentative popularity check!

Keldeo, sande and I are at confirmed -1
skylar is at tentative -1
everyone else is at tentative 0

last nights flavor and other secret mechanics notwithstanding


----------



## mewtini

i thought we weren’t posting popularity levels tbh


----------



## Trebek

ok i didn’t mean to use the word tentative 3 times in one post but that’s where we at rn ¯\_(ツ)_/¯


----------



## Trebek

mewtini said:


> i thought we weren’t posting popularity levels tbh


wait what


----------



## Keldeo

Oh no, sorry Mr. Ultracool! :(

@JuliaTheSeaTurtleQueen Hey, how's it going? Have you read any of the game?

Trebek and @Ysabel and @sanderidge, can you talk a little about your read on me after yesterday? @M Plus 7 I'm also interested in the emotional tell that you mentioned. This is going somewhere, I can talk more about it after everyone answers. 



mewtini said:


> - @Keldeo i was wondering if you could elaborate on your thought in 670, though it's fine if not tbh
> 
> 
> 
> Keldeo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> idk how I feel about Trebek's vote on Ultracool and Ysabel's vote on Superjolt. woweek
Click to expand...

Yeah, it was just that both voters I mentioned were ~in my POE and Ysabel's vote on Superjolt in particular struck me as... maybe opportunistic in a world where Superjolt is town?



Ysabel said:


> What made you change your mind on Koko since as I recall you said you were suspicious of him? And what made you decide to jump to Mr Ultracool instead of Superjolt?


I noticed something in koko's later posting about me and Blu. I kind of don't want to "burn" the read, but I can expand on it if it becomes relevant. I moved to Mr. Ultracool because I thought Superjolt could be more resolvable after a day and, as I mentioned in the post you quoted, I thought Superjolt's posts might have less of an agenda if koko was town. It's possible I miscalculated the former, though. 

I thought I was pretty transparent about my reasoning for these two changes yesterday - was something unclear to you about how I presented that information?


----------



## mewtini

Trebek said:


> mewtini said:
> 
> 
> 
> i thought we weren’t posting popularity levels tbh
> 
> 
> 
> wait what
Click to expand...

i was just thinking about mist/you/blu mentioning that ignoring popularity somewhat would help hide PRs


----------



## Trebek

mewtini said:


> Trebek said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> mewtini said:
> 
> 
> 
> i thought we weren’t posting popularity levels tbh
> 
> 
> 
> wait what
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> i was just thinking about mist/you/blu mentioning that ignoring popularity somewhat would help hide PRs
Click to expand...

oh, i still don’t think people should let their behavior be outwardly affected by their popularity, for this exact reason. i don’t see the issue with just collecting what popularity information we already have in thread though


----------



## mewtini

yeah i gotcha! sorry, i think i just misinterpreted consensus lol


----------



## IndigoClaudia

*Flavor:*

Alright! Time to go to work. The strange rock has moved places!!! DUN DUN DUUUN!

And almost overnight, a brand new song started playing. These songs are just weird.



> Ysabel! Ysabel! She's the one! She's so cool! :D everyone should think she's cool! :D! I didn't even think i could put a song with :D in it! But here we are :D


You get to work and poor kokorico who was working overtime to solve the problem... was *MURDERED!!!!!!!!!!!!

Figure out who to stabby today!*


----------



## Novae

fwiw

I don't think the wagons are >rand v/v because I do think mafia may have been worried about popularity, plus sande's late ultracool vote looked like a possible save


----------



## mewtini

> I didn't even think i could put a song with :D in it! But here we are :D


technology is amazing!


----------



## Keldeo

Mist1422 said:


> fwiw
> 
> I don't think the wagons are >rand v/v because I do think mafia may have been worried about popularity, plus sande's late ultracool vote looked like a possible save


Mm. Can you tell me more about your Superjolt vote / how you progressed / what you were thinking last EOD?


----------



## Novae

admittedly most of my hesitation on voting SJ was popularity-based, but reading over the UC wagon (primarily sande with the late vote but also slight concerns about trebek) I decided that it felt like he was being pushed by scum, and MP7 pushing sande made me feel better about that


----------



## Trebek

i mean, do we think that the mafia are scared enough of popularity to let the vote go to rand? or are you implying that every mafia member was voting UC

also, this flavor now seems to be a popularity raise. if that’s coming from the same role as the popularity lower from N0, then i feel better now about that role being town: having the mafia be able to raise their popularity seems a tad unbalanced, unless the role has to alternate?


----------



## Keldeo

Mist1422 said:


> admittedly most of my hesitation on voting SJ was popularity-based, but reading over the UC wagon (primarily sande with the late vote but also slight concerns about trebek) I decided that it felt like he was being pushed by scum, and MP7 pushing sande made me feel better about that


Thanks! What do you mean by popularity-based hesitation, I'm not entirely sure I get what you're saying there? 

You mentioned yesterday you were townreading me, and from this I gather that you're also townreading MP. Can you talk a bit about why?


----------



## sanderidge

fuck i forgot day started today


----------



## sanderidge

am i allowed to say fuck,


----------



## Novae

Keldeo said:


> Mist1422 said:
> 
> 
> 
> admittedly most of my hesitation on voting SJ was popularity-based, but reading over the UC wagon (primarily sande with the late vote but also slight concerns about trebek) I decided that it felt like he was being pushed by scum, and MP7 pushing sande made me feel better about that
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks! What do you mean by popularity-based hesitation, I'm not entirely sure I get what you're saying there?
> 
> You mentioned yesterday you were townreading me, and from this I gather that you're also townreading MP. Can you talk a bit about why?
Click to expand...

I will not expand due to PR WIFOM:tm:

for you it was primarily to inflate your chances of being n1'd so I wouldn't have to solve you but I think both you and MP were being more proactive with your questioning/solving than I'd expect to see you as scum


----------



## sanderidge

mewtini said:


> - @sanderidge in 650 you say this:
> 
> 
> sanderidge said:
> 
> 
> 
> this is a Good Poast and i feel good about trebek for it. there is literally nothing else i remember trebek posting so, uh, that's the Only Thing for me in their favor so far, but i feel like that's significant
> 
> 
> 
> but then list trebek as being somewhat suspicious not much later (in 722). wondering what your thought process is there
Click to expand...

this was because i felt like that was the _only _thing that i felt okay about with trebek (vs ysabel who didn't have that Point In Favor). also tbh because when i was asked for suspicions i just looked at the list i posted earlier and picked out my Solid Neutrals and decided who i didn't like More. 



Keldeo said:


> Trebek and @Ysabel and @sanderidge, can you talk a little about your read on me after yesterday?


i feel like i'm supposed to have something to say here but i don't :'D 



Mist1422 said:


> admittedly most of my hesitation on voting SJ was popularity-based, but reading over the UC wagon (primarily sande with the late vote but also slight concerns about trebek) I decided that it felt like he was being pushed by scum, and_ MP7 pushing sande made me feel better about that_


(emphasis mine) pls help what does the italicized part mean 



Trebek said:


> i mean, do we think that the mafia are scared enough of popularity to let the vote go to rand? or are you implying that every mafia member was voting UC
> 
> also, this flavor now seems to be a popularity raise. if that’s coming from the same role as the popularity lower from N0, then i feel better now about that role being town: having the mafia be able to raise their popularity seems a tad unbalanced, unless the role has to alternate?


fwiw this kind of post is the sort of thing that sticks out in my memory so i no longer feel that suspicious about trebek, and ysabel doing ISOs seems like a good and Solving Things thing to be doing... which makes it worse for me that i didn't do a superjolt iso yesterday lmao. but now i am at a (rowlet emoji) sort of place because i don't think i'm... reading people right? i voted for town and the people i didn't feel great about yesterday i feel more okay about now so i think i am probably making Bad Assumptions or reads somewhere.


----------



## Novae

sanderidge said:


> (emphasis mine) pls help what does the italicized part mean


MP7's push on you made me feel like my scumread on you was more likely to be correct


----------



## Keldeo

sanderidge said:


> i feel like i'm supposed to have something to say here but i don't :'D


Sorry, I don't understand. Do you have no read on me? 

If you're worried that you're making bad assumptions or reads, where do you think you might be most likely to be wrong?


----------



## Keldeo

Trebek said:


> also, this flavor now seems to be a popularity raise. if that’s coming from the same role as the popularity lower from N0, then i feel better now about that role being town: having the mafia be able to raise their popularity seems a tad unbalanced, unless the role has to alternate?


I see what you're saying but I also think if the role isn't mandatory, I'm a bit :? at town choosing to decrease someone's popularity on night 0 with no information. I don't think I can speculate usefully about this role right now so I'll table it, but wanted to note that.


----------



## sanderidge

Keldeo said:


> sanderidge said:
> 
> 
> 
> i feel like i'm supposed to have something to say here but i don't :'D
> 
> 
> 
> Sorry, I don't understand. Do you have no read on me?
> 
> If you're worried that you're making bad assumptions or reads, where do you think you might be most likely to be wrong?
Click to expand...

this is going to sound like a really fucking bad excuse but i currently don't have a read on you because i don't remember very much about the thread - i'd need to reread before i could answer this 

i think i might most likely be wrong where i assume people sound good because they're pointing out things that are Somewhat Useful that anyone could've picked up on? i've been avoiding trying to read people on tone so there's not really that to look at 

i honestly probably just need to do an actual reread and take notes or something


----------



## Keldeo

sanderidge said:


> this is going to sound like a really fucking bad excuse but i currently don't have a read on you because i don't remember very much about the thread - i'd need to reread before i could answer this
> 
> i think i might most likely be wrong where i assume people sound good because they're pointing out things that are Somewhat Useful that anyone could've picked up on? i've been avoiding trying to read people on tone so there's not really that to look at
> 
> i honestly probably just need to do an actual reread and take notes or something


No, that's okay! Take all the time you need. 

Are you thinking of anyone specific with that second paragraph?


----------



## Trebek

Keldeo said:


> Trebek said:
> 
> 
> 
> also, this flavor now seems to be a popularity raise. if that’s coming from the same role as the popularity lower from N0, then i feel better now about that role being town: having the mafia be able to raise their popularity seems a tad unbalanced, unless the role has to alternate?
> 
> 
> 
> I see what you're saying but I also think if the role isn't mandatory, I'm a bit :? at town choosing to decrease someone's popularity on night 0 with no information. I don't think I can speculate usefully about this role right now so I'll table it, but wanted to note that.
Click to expand...

yeah, i agree with that point. i just wanted to throw out my 2 cents on the roles alignment


----------



## mewtini

Keldeo said:


> I'm a bit :? at town choosing to decrease someone's popularity on night 0 with no information


agree
what if there's not just one popularity-altering role?


----------



## mewtini

actually that would maybe be weird given that we didn't get the decrease AND increase on each night


----------



## Trebek

mewtini said:


> actually that would maybe be weird given that we didn't get the decrease AND increase on each night


yeah, my current vibe is that it’s one role

after reading keldeos post i’m largely convinced that if it’s one role, it has to alternate between increasing and decreasing bc

a) why would a town lower popularity arbitrarily on the first night

b) a mafia role that isn’t alternating would be way too strong imo


----------



## Keldeo

inb4 the popularity change songs are randomized and not the result of a role.


----------



## Trebek

Keldeo said:


> inb4 the popularity change songs are randomized and not the result of a role.


loltrebek if thats the case tbh


----------



## Keldeo

Trebek, if you still think Superjolt was more likely to be town, where do you think we should be looking today? How do you read the people who joined each of the wagons if Superjolt is town vs. if Superjolt is mafia?


----------



## Trebek

Keldeo said:


> Trebek, if you still think Superjolt was more likely to be town, where do you think we should be looking today? How do you read the people who joined each of the wagons if Superjolt is town vs. if Superjolt is mafia?


If Superjolt is mafia, then i would likely look at sande for the late vote onto UC, sort of like what Mist mentioned (and this would also kinda throw you and i under suspicion as well lol)

If the wagons are v/v, then i think i would actually be the most interested in people who didnt vote at all, but iirc that mostly lines up with people who were already inactive or had a societal Get Out Of Jail Free card from voting

so at the end of the day im still ?_? lmao


----------



## Ys_

Keldeo said:


> I had a dream that someone randomly dayvigged Ysabel, who was town, and everyone was so confused that we ended up yeeting Seshas.
> 
> I dunno either.


Lmaooo  


Keldeo said:


> I noticed something in koko's later posting about me and Blu. I kind of don't want to "burn" the read, but I can expand on it if it becomes relevant.
> Oki. That's fair.
> I moved to Mr. Ultracool because I thought Superjolt could be more resolvable after a day and, as I mentioned in the post you quoted, I thought Superjolt's posts might have less of an agenda if koko was town. It's possible I miscalculated the former, though.
> 
> I thought I was pretty transparent about my reasoning for these two changes yesterday - was something unclear to you about how I presented that information?
> I see. I probably misread/misunderstood bc I thought you were saying you saw SJ as mafia. Fwiw, I don't blame you and whomever voted for MU. Also, I missed a few pages at the end... I can feel I will spend a lot of this game catching up ^^; oh, well.





IndigoEmmy said:


> *Flavor:*
> 
> Alright! Time to go to work. The strange rock has moved places!!! DUN DUN DUUUN!
> 
> And almost overnight, a brand new song started playing. These songs are just weird.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ysabel! Ysabel! She's the one! She's so cool! :D everyone should think she's cool! :D! I didn't even think i could put a song with :D in it! But here we are :D
> 
> 
> 
> You get to work and poor kokorico who was working overtime to solve the problem... was *MURDERED!!!!!!!!!!!!
> 
> Figure out who to stabby today!*
Click to expand...

Oh, well, thanks? :3 At least I can say I've seemed to make an impression, heh.

As for your reads, Keldeo, I'm working on it. I was just working on an ISO before the beginning of the day. Will probably try to get them by today. Plus catching up on what I missed. (Oh boy....)


----------



## Bluwiikoon

That strange rock is gonna haunt me >:o WHAT DOES IT MEAN...

If it IS stealth rocks, maybe they can just choose to bodyguard a specific person? I am so invested in the rock...


----------



## Trebek

Bluwiikoon said:


> That strange rock is gonna haunt me >:o WHAT DOES IT MEAN...
> 
> If it IS stealth rocks, maybe they can just choose to bodyguard a specific person? I am so invested in the rock...


honestly same tbh


----------



## Trebek

why did i say honestly and tbh in the same 3 words


----------



## kyeugh

some thoughts about the popularity modifying role thing: there are a few possibilities kicking around in my head. maybe there are two roles and they alternate nights? or, in the case of them being a single role, maybe it alternates and its use is obligate? that would explain its n0 use. this isn’t useful i guess but it’s the only thought i have about this game rn


----------



## Keldeo

(inb4 the strange rock is totally random and not the result of a role)

@mewtini, are there any reads you wanna talk through with me / things you want to look into...? I feel kind of useless right now lol.

kyeugh, what do you think might help you make firmer thoughts about this game?

Trebek, I asked you earlier what your read on me was, did you answer and I missed it?


----------



## Zori

*BOOM!*​


----------



## Zori

An explosion rocks the bridge and sends a Snom sailing through the sky. She lands with a small sploosh in the smoke below, leaving a trail of smoke behind her.

*M Plus 7 has died. She was a Snom.*​


Spoiler: Pings



@JuliaTheSeaTurtleQueen
@Mist1422
@Bluwiikoon
@sanderidge
@Superjolt
@kyeugh
@Ysabel
@Keldeo
@mewtini
@Trebek





Spoiler: Game Summary



*N0

D1*
Mr. Ultracool has died. They were a *Snom*.

*N1*
kokorico has died. E was a *Snom*.

*D2*
M Plus 7 has died. She was a *Snom*.


----------



## Keldeo

Excuse me?


----------



## mewtini

bruh ... :(

(keldeo i will get back to you in a bit on the other thing)


----------



## Trebek

nooooooo what

(also same)


----------



## Keldeo

Man.



Bluwiikoon said:


> That strange rock is gonna haunt me >:o WHAT DOES IT MEAN...
> 
> If it IS stealth rocks, maybe they can just choose to bodyguard a specific person? I am so invested in the rock...


General questions for you, do you have any thoughts on last EOD? What do you think about Superjolt?


----------



## Trebek

Keldeo said:


> Trebek, I asked you earlier what your read on me was, did you answer and I missed it?


to be honest, im not really sure where im at with my read currently. im trying to put a bit more concentrated effort in this game to not overly correlate "good/smart play" with "towny play", which is the mindset that led to me townreading you early on in Cats. the downside to that is that i am a lot more waffley about where i stand on basically everyone rn, except for the more mechanical things like my vague TR of superjolt.


----------



## Trebek

Trebek said:


> Keldeo said:
> 
> 
> 
> Trebek, I asked you earlier what your read on me was, did you answer and I missed it?
> 
> 
> 
> to be honest, im not really sure where im at with my read currently. im trying to put a bit more concentrated effort in this game to not overly correlate "good/smart play" with "towny play", which is the mindset that led to me townreading you early on in Cats. the downside to that is that i am a lot more waffley about where i stand on basically everyone rn, except for the more mechanical things like my vague TR of superjolt.
Click to expand...

i think im putting you on the slightly townier side than a pure nullread? but thats mostly going off of personal Vibes that i dont think i could actually articulate


----------



## Keldeo

Thanks, Trebek! Can you talk me through some of that waffling? You can pick whoever you want, particularly if there's one person who's been taking up a lot of your mental bandwidth here - I'd just like to see you talk about someone with a bit more specificity. Or is there anything that you'd really like to see someone do that would help you come to a more solid read on them? 

If there were 3 mafia originally, there are currently 7 town, which leaves us with just one misyeet before we get to possible MYLO (five town and three mafia). 

So if you're town, whatever you can contribute today is really important! Losing Mr. Ultracool, koko, and MP sucks, but we can do this! :o


----------



## Keldeo

Keldeo said:


> So if you're town, whatever you can contribute today is really important! Losing Mr. Ultracool, koko, and MP sucks, but we can do this! :o


This is a general you! I believe in us!


----------



## mewtini

ok i am back but i will now more fully react with: bruh NO


----------



## mewtini

this sucks tbh.


----------



## Trebek

Keldeo said:


> Thanks, Trebek! Can you talk me through some of that waffling? You can pick whoever you want, particularly if there's one person who's been taking up a lot of your mental bandwidth here - I'd just like to see you talk about someone with a bit more specificity. Or is there anything that you'd really like to see someone do that would help you come to a more solid read on them?
> 
> If there were 3 mafia originally, there are currently 7 town, which leaves us with just one misyeet before we get to possible MYLO (five town and three mafia).
> 
> So if you're town, whatever you can contribute today is really important! Losing Mr. Ultracool, koko, and MP sucks, but we can do this! :o


ive been thinking a lot about Blu's ISO of me: theres a particular thing that he said / response to a thing i posted that makes me want to believe that hes town, but i cant tell if he said it intentionally or not    (if you know what i'm talking about Blu hehe)

most of my bandwidth has been sorta needlessly devoted to thinking about the popularity flavor though, so i definitely need to go back and reread through D1 with the newer flips still in mind


----------



## Keldeo

Trebek said:


> ive been thinking a lot about Blu's ISO of me: theres a particular thing that he said / response to a thing i posted that makes me want to believe that hes town, but i cant tell if he said it intentionally or not  (if you know what i'm talking about Blu hehe)


Sorry, I don't understand. Can you say more?


----------



## mewtini

Trebek said:


> theres a particular thing that he said / response to a thing i posted that makes me want to believe that hes town, but i cant tell if he said it intentionally or not  (if you know what i'm talking about Blu hehe)


i think i know what you are talking about tbh and it's part of what influenced me moving you/him up


----------



## mewtini

Keldeo said:


> @mewtini, are there any reads you wanna talk through with me / things you want to look into...? I feel kind of useless right now lol.


same tbh
where are you at on sande/mist right now? i am kind of waffling on them both currently


----------



## Trebek

Keldeo said:


> Trebek said:
> 
> 
> 
> ive been thinking a lot about Blu's ISO of me: theres a particular thing that he said / response to a thing i posted that makes me want to believe that hes town, but i cant tell if he said it intentionally or not  (if you know what i'm talking about Blu hehe)
> 
> 
> 
> Sorry, I don't understand. Can you say more?
Click to expand...

i will gladly elaborate on this later on, but if i elaborated now it would likely allow people to falsely get themselves townread


----------



## Trebek

mewtini said:


> Trebek said:
> 
> 
> 
> theres a particular thing that he said / response to a thing i posted that makes me want to believe that hes town, but i cant tell if he said it intentionally or not  (if you know what i'm talking about Blu hehe)
> 
> 
> 
> i think i know what you are talking about tbh and it's part of what influenced me moving you/him up
Click to expand...

this is highly useful information! :D


----------



## mewtini

uh ... maybe we are not thinking about the same thing then?


----------



## mewtini

that wasn't a Consequence i was really thinking of when i saw it


----------



## Trebek

oh

maybe idk


----------



## Trebek

mewtini said:


> that wasn't a Consequence i was really thinking of when i saw it


actually, i think we are talking about the same thing now that i think about it

i might just be more paranoid of it backfiring


----------



## mewtini

i should probably stop talking about this but i was pretty sure i caught your drift (atm you are locktown for me, blu is possibly not but probably is). i don't think it would be something other people could tap into to get false TRs, though


----------



## Trebek

yeah, imma shut up for now. i promise that i will explain later on


----------



## mewtini

very sorry to the thread for this uh ... page of talk that's probably useless to everyone except for maybe blu right now :'D


mewtini said:


> Keldeo said:
> 
> 
> 
> @mewtini, are there any reads you wanna talk through with me / things you want to look into...? I feel kind of useless right now lol.
> 
> 
> 
> same tbh
> where are you at on sande/mist right now? i am kind of waffling on them both currently
Click to expand...

to elaborate: i was tonereading sande really sympathetically yesterDay bc i liked their longposting but i kinda agree with mist on the possibly awkward vote placement? and i don't know how to read their replies today (/i think a lot of it was probably NAI even though i feel bad)

mist hasn't talked that much but i think they are reading towny to me right now for the things that they have said, but as i mentioned earlier i think i suck at reading mist given cats/my nominal exposure to them in tvt


----------



## Trebek

as a side note, i think that part of the reason that i have barely any concrete reads atm is that i feel really weird about like, judging people based on previous games? that might be something that will change once i play more than 1 mafia game lmao but i feel like its not surprising for some people to approach different games with different mindsets.

im not trying to invalidate any of the discussion thats been happening, just that a lot of it ends up goes over my head :p


----------



## mewtini

@Trebek fwiw, if i am right, i don't think you should elaborate because i think it would hurt town for some other reasons


----------



## mewtini

Trebek said:


> as a side note, i think that part of the reason that i have barely any concrete reads atm is that i feel really weird about like, judging people based on previous games? that might be something that will change once i play more than 1 mafia game lmao but i feel like its not surprising for some people to approach different games with different mindsets.
> 
> im not trying to invalidate any of the discussion thats been happening, just that a lot of it ends up goes over my head :p


i agree that metatalk shouldn't be 100%, though i think that there are like certain ways that people approach games as either alignment that stay constant tbh? idk. i believe in metareads but that is just me. she says, having only played a few games herself

i would still be interested in hearing your non-concrete thoughts though!!


----------



## Trebek

mewtini said:


> @Trebek fwiw, if i am right, i don't think you should elaborate because i think it would hurt town for some other reasons


for the record, i meant like much, much later, bc i totally see what you are getting at here



mewtini said:


> i think that there are like certain ways that people approach games as either alignment that stay constant tbh?


yeah, i think thats just something i have to get used to (another symptom of only playing town of salem tbh)

current non-concrete thought: rip mp7 :(((((((((((
more non-concrete thoughts to come at some point, not fully at keyboard at the moment


----------



## Trebek

also, do we have any speculation on how mp7 died? from what ive heard terrorist kills normally have to be announced in thread, right?


----------



## mewtini

theoretically? i get the impression that the role configuration is kind of weird/custom though (since there are popularity-related roles) so idk

also i need to read back through koko's iso tbh. and mp7's, i guess :(


----------



## Trebek

also (yes i know i’m only asking questions instead of giving thoughts, im sorry)

do we think we can derive anything from the fact that superjolt didn’t throw out a self defense vote? i don’t remember if he was active at eod but i imagine mafia chat would have been bugging him to vote UC?


----------



## mewtini

his last post is from like an hour before EoD so i don't think he was around


----------



## Trebek

mewtini said:


> his last post is from like an hour before EoD so i don't think he was around


i feel like even that long before EoD maf chat would been like “yo idk if we’re going to bus you or not but at least vote UC”

idk


----------



## Ys_

Spoiler: ISO on Keldeo






Keldeo said:


> I won't be doing hypocop, because without role reveals, we get the drawbacks (it can tell the mafia who isn't the cop) without much of the benefits. I don't actually know whether roles are revealed upon death, but I'm assuming they are not.


Though I don't know 100% what a hypocop is I'm assuming it's fakereading for the sake of covering the real cop and it's a good thing that you advised against it, because it seems like a semi-common thing to do, mafia wouldn't feel a big need to point it out. +townie points


Keldeo said:


> Personally, I feel like we probably don't lose much by executing and voting as normal. I'm sure the popularity mechanic was balanced with the possibility of normal wagons and misvotes in mind, and I feel like consensus wagons usually kill town, but of course it depends. I do not think we should abstain - the numbers are pretty tight assuming there are 3 mafia, so I think we should take every chance we can get.


Fair. We've gone through this and I agree.


Keldeo said:


> @Ysabel, just to make sure I'm understanding correctly - do you mean like we "elect" someone and have an unspoken agreement for no one to vote besides that person? Have you got any ideas for who that person would be right now? :O
> 
> - Also, sorry, but can you tell me more about your experience playing or watching mafia?


I like the way you're trying to understand instead of immediately making a judgment. Don't know how AI that is, but I think it was a nice thing to do. And the question about my previous experience was also nice. And you talked about your questioning, so I gotcha. 


Keldeo said:


> mewtini / Trebek / Mist, I’d be interested in any thoughts so far that you have :0 Particularly, mewtini/Trebek, I'm interested if you have any thoughts on Ysabel for proposing her plan, given that you seem to disagree with it.


See, I'm starting to see a pattern here and I think I know where you're going with these questions and they seem fair. I'd just kind of like to see your thoughts on those answers, because it's like, maybe they are helping you make reads or will help you make readss in the future, but maybe keeping your thoughts to yourself may make it harder for others to read you or just not know what your take was if something happens to you. Doesn't mean you have to answer everything, but tbh after Mewtini's comment about the question approach it made me kind of weary.


Keldeo said:


> I'm still a little sketched out by how early eir read on me was - I don't have a good grasp on eir playstyle but e read as fairly "TMI-y" as mafia in Cats (townreading people e knew to be town, sometimes based on very little), and like, I'd made literally 4 posts, ~2 of which were talking about this game and not theory.


Ah, but now we know Koko was town, and e did seem pretty confident, so that's another +townie points for you. Even if eir reasoning wasn't the best but as I recall e did expand on eir read later on.


Keldeo said:


> *Vote Superjolt*. I think we should start building wagons if we're going to be voting normally. I know he's got stuff going on, but I think pressuring him is more productive than pressuring either of the two inactive people at the bottom of my POE.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm not townreading [Mr. Ultracool, Superjolt, MP7] + slightly higher tier of [Mist, Julia, Trebek?, Ysabel?]. Not really sure how good I feel about my reads, and endgame sneaks up fast in a smaller game, but ehh good enough for now I guess. If you think I should take someone out or put someone into my voting pool, please talk to me about why!
> 
> 
> 
> Umm I guess this would be in line about that comment about fluidity. Like, I get where you're coming from.
> 
> 
> Keldeo said:
> 
> 
> 
> I do not think Julia would go to mafia chat before posting, and I don't read any particular purity into the posts she did make. I still do not want to vote her today just out of like... giving some more time to a new player.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Fair, yeah. I see. It's not like mafians talk about everything they will do in day chat during night chat.
> 
> 
> Keldeo said:
> 
> 
> 
> I think Ysabel's posting has been fine and rereading her posting I'm moving her up. Though a lot of the reasoning she gave in #275 was generic, I liked the specificity in her points about Blu, mewtini, and kyeugh, and the straightforwardness in her answering what she'd do in this game as mafia in #334. I feel meh about her shading people who have been less active, but that's my instinct as well. :/ I kind of think she has a limited number of possible mafia partners, as well.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Thanks, though. What parts were generic? I could expand on them, though I'm thinking maybe you meant the Trebek/Kyeugh part which I was kind of not looking deeply so that's fair.
> 
> 
> Keldeo said:
> 
> 
> 
> You could be for sure, but presumably if you are town you aren't lying or withholding anything, and therefore an answer could give me insight into your approach that would allow me to correctly townread you. I also was just curious about how you think about the game, in general, since we haven't played together before but you mentioned some past experience in a different thread.
> 
> Also, probably not a super helpful answer, but I ask questions because I want to know the answers, hehe. Could be because I think they'll help me read the answerer or the person we're talking about, because I think the answers may be helpful in the future, or because I'm just curious and I like the social aspect of mafia. *I don't usually make reads/conclusions directly about the answers, but I do incorporate them into later reviews, and I can always talk about what I think of a specific post or what I had in mind while asking a specific question.*
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Ahh. This part cleared a lot of it for me, yep. Partly the why these questions seemed more generic/more meta-related than questions you were asking others.
> 
> 
> Keldeo said:
> 
> 
> 
> It's like... maybe possible that this game is sortable by post count? I'm probably wrongly townreading someone who's posting. But I think I'm okay with trying to figure that out later.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Hmm, I already talked about my thought on post count v post quality, but it's not something I'm scumleaning you for. Just like, I wish there were no inactives. (I've had my fair share of bad experiences with people who went inactive, not just for the whole game but sometimes in the middle of the game, and it's not fun.)
> 
> Also the realization of Koko being town for those reads on you/Blu seemed really organic, and with Koko as flipped town more difficult to fake.
> 
> 
> 
> Keldeo said:
> 
> 
> 
> These are probably fair but also, hmm... I guess I'm magnifying my own confidence / disregarding things, because if I start to let myself talk myself out of those reads, I don't really have anything confident either, hehe.
> 
> What was strange about Blu's ISO, kyeugh?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> More on the fluidity thing. Not sure if it's AI but it does give me good feelings because a townie's reads will change as they try to solve the game.
> 
> 
> 
> Keldeo said:
> 
> 
> 
> *vote Mr. Ultracool* I guess
> 
> Superjolt hedges in most of his takes in #369 (mewtini and Ysabel are the only ones without some sort of qualifier). I kind of think this is a him thing regardless of his alignment, he wasn't able to say much more confidently after a bit more posting in early Cats... I appreciate him giving the thoughts at least and want to unvote because let's give him another day here.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> What does hedging mean by the way? I haven't heard the term in mafia before.
> 
> 
> Keldeo said:
> 
> 
> 
> @Bluwiikoon just curious, when you were writing your ISO on Trebek, did you already have in mind everything that you pointed out, or did you come up with it as you were reading? Is there anything that gives you hesitation on him?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Another good question and again I understand the thought behind it.
> 
> 
> Keldeo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> kokorico said:
> 
> 
> 
> Superjolt is probably the most scum-looking person at the moment, but that could also plausibly just be a lack of time/experience/interest. For example, he popped in very briefly at the start of the Day when it seemed like he might be coming under the microscope for inactivity, but didn't stick around for long. More recently, his reads list was really very thin on information and most people's entries boiled down to "idk". I was also a little bemused when, in response to my question about his opinion on the representatives idea, he cited mewtini's argument against it - but she didn't make that argument until _after_ I asked the question!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Ugh, someone tell me whether this is pushing something that makes Superjolt look like mafia or something that makes Superjolt mafia.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Well, now we know Koko was town, so at least this read wasn't fake. Though at the time I think you were already pretty sure Koko was town, so maybe that's not what you meant?
> 
> 
> Keldeo said:
> 
> 
> 
> Ehh I'm at like... I don't want to yeet her today. She could be mafia, I don't think it'd be impossible for her to be posting the way she has been as mafia when she seemed to be going to take it easy this game anyway and she's a good wolf. Probably "actively" leaning town if I had to pin something down.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Hmhm. A thought crossed my mind that you could have been mafia buddies with Superjolt, but I think it's very unlikely that you would have started a train on your own buddy when there were other possible options so I'm going to give you more townie points for this. I want to ISO SJ and Koko later. Now that we know Koko was town.
> 
> 
> Keldeo said:
> 
> 
> 
> idk how I feel about Trebek's vote on Ultracool and Ysabel's vote on Superjolt. woweek
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Fair enough lol. I already explained mine and I'm pretty sure (basically top townread) about Trebek, but I didn't follow EoD, but if it was similar to mine then I say it's a fair analysis.
> 
> 
> Keldeo said:
> 
> 
> 
> Townreads but be wary: mewtini, kokorico, Blu, MP7
> Julia: Julia
> Tonal memes read: kyeugh, sanderidge
> Hmm: Mist, Superjolt, Ysabel, Trebek, Ultracool
> ?????
> 
> btw I think Mist pointing out stuff like not talking about the popularity to stop scum from PR hunting was pro-town / "helpful" (in a mostly-NAI way probably) and I'm curious why @Ysabel didn't think so
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I already talked about this, but now I'm curious as to what you think of my ISOing of Trebek v Mist?
Click to expand...







Keldeo said:


> All in all, I want to say you read as very townie to me, I'm not sensing anything sinister or any hidden agenda, just genuine helping and leading. I also think you're good at playing mafia so you could probably still pass as townie when wolf, but I'm trusting my instinct here. Plus my other townreads/Koko/MP's reads on you. I guess now it's more of getting you and my other townreads to trust me, too.


----------



## kyeugh

Keldeo said:


> kyeugh, what do you think might help you make firmer thoughts about this game?


 time, i guess. i think i’ll be getting somewhere by the end of the day.

rip mp7. i wonder why her, and why now?


----------



## Trebek

kyeugh said:


> Keldeo said:
> 
> 
> 
> kyeugh, what do you think might help you make firmer thoughts about this game?
> 
> 
> 
> time, i guess. i think i’ll be getting somewhere by the end of the day.
> 
> rip mp7. i wonder why her, and why now?
Click to expand...

yeah, i honestly am still wondering why now. outside of a requested modkill (?) i can’t really think of any roles that i know of that would result in something like that happening


----------



## mewtini

i want to believe that if it were a modkill we would've been told as such tbh


----------



## mewtini

*as much


----------



## Trebek

mewtini said:


> i want to believe that if it were a modkill we would've been told as such tbh


yeah that’s why i was (?) on that logic


----------



## Bluwiikoon

Bro WTF


----------



## mewtini

i think it would have been very funny if koko got bombed in divine retribution for tvtropes. but we live in an unfair universe ...
(ok i'll get out of the thread for a bit now hehe.)


----------



## Keldeo

Uhh tbh I do not see what mewtini and Trebek are talking about, but I'll look at it again later. 

Superjolt not voting in self-preservation before he had to leave(?) straightforwardly is like marginally towny. Although it shouldn't mean that much given that town should also be motivated to survive, and as mafia, he would have to consider losing popularity if Mr. U was yeeted and he was on him.



Trebek said:


> also, do we have any speculation on how mp7 died? from what ive heard terrorist kills normally have to be announced in thread, right?


I think the logical guess is a mafia (or third party?) one-shot day vigilante. I'm thinking one-shot because a dayvig that can shoot every day is kind of OP with low numbers. If it was a town day vig, that would be... a little disappointing. 

I'm guessing now is because she hasn't been around but likely would be later in the phase? Why MP7 could point to some people, could point to the mafia wanting to eliminate a strong and loud town voice. Could point to me because she has a good read on me. 

I'll respond to things later tonight (re: sande / Mist / Ysabel), just wanted to get some thoughts down.


----------



## mewtini

i'll probably iso koko/mp7 like i said i would earlier for the sake of answering the 'why tf' question and return eventually? i think that's probably the best route?


----------



## mewtini

Keldeo said:


> Uhh tbh I do not see what mewtini and Trebek are talking about, but I'll look at it again later.


it's not an inthread thing if i'm indeed on the same page as trebek, sorry to do this in a second game tbh


----------



## Bluwiikoon

Got some quotes lined up to look at, but I also just wanna quickly apologise for not being here at EOD/start of day ^^; I keep being so unconscious! Really bad habit LOL


----------



## Bluwiikoon

Keldeo said:


> General questions for you, do you have any thoughts on last EOD? What do you think about Superjolt?


EOD seemed really quiet and it makes me concerned  Surely there'd be more pushback if either wagon was maf, right? I don't have a solid grasp on superjolt but I'm down to ISO if everyone else is 

Random quotes I picked up on a quick skim:


M Plus 7 said:


> Superjolt said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> mewtini said:
> 
> 
> 
> i'm actually going to go to sleep now, lol. not sure if i'll be back before EoD because i have stuff from like, 12 until 3pm/EoD and it's like 4am so who knows if i'll get up significantly earlier tbh. so i'll vibe on *superjolt* (still irked by his reads before and the tonal difference between those and the catsposting) and hopefully make it back in time for everything
> 
> 
> 
> I admit my reads aren’t great, but that’s where I’m at. I’m kind of just really having a hard time reading everyone here, despite partially playing in/spectating Cats I still don’t really know anyone here that well yet and then there’s even players here that weren’t even in Cats. I was already kind of struggling with how I wanted to approach things in this game but being hit with a wave of exhaustion has just kind of killed it for me... I’ve slept a total of maybe 7 hours the past few nights combined
> 
> Kind of just looking at the thread and trying to think about things but my brain is like “nope” so I’m kind of frustrated
> 
> Trying to read but kind of skipped chunks of the thread, but uh did anyone have anything for me that I might’ve missed?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I think I don't want to be on Superjolt anymore. This reads genuine.
Click to expand...

Since we now know MP7 flipped town, this isn't a w/w defence. Could still be v/w  I don't want to inherently read a lack of commitment to reads as wolfy due to my own experiences in, like, Cats, but it's also possible for them to not want to TMI. Will have to look at more stuff probably!



M Plus 7 said:


> M Plus 7 said:
> 
> 
> 
> My gut wants to flashwagon sande, lmao. Okay, yeah, don't do that.
> 
> 
> 
> My gut is sort of insane this game. It wants to set more players on fire than usual?
Click to expand...

Could the explosion be sande's work? Or, someone hoping to frame sande


----------



## Trebek

Bluwiikoon said:


> Keldeo said:
> 
> 
> 
> General questions for you, do you have any thoughts on last EOD? What do you think about Superjolt?
> 
> 
> 
> EOD seemed really quiet and it makes me concerned  Surely there'd be more pushback if either wagon was maf, right?
Click to expand...

this combined with the fact that the wagons ended in a tie is my exact logic behind my superjolt vibes


----------



## Bluwiikoon

@ Trebek and mewt


----------



## mewtini

i don't think i'm as helpful here as i was hoping to be, lol, but


Spoiler: a few koko quotes



this is pretty empty. i didn't feel like i could find all that much in here, sorry


kokorico said:


> I'm not as keen as he is on Bluwiikoon though. It's true that he's meming in a similar way to his behaviour in Cats (2019), but back then he sobered up when people actually started talking mafia. In this game we're already making plans but I think he's made, like, one non-joke post so far? And that was proposing an abstention. Idk, just seems a bit odd.


there were some early posts where e mentioned blu as a baby scumlean, like here? there are other things i didn't feel like quoting but this got brought up some amount


kokorico said:


> *chicken god:* kokorico
> *pretty towny so far:* Keldeo, mewtini
> *the grey area:* Ysabel, Trebek, kyeugh, M Plus 7, sanderidge, Mist1422
> *uneasy:* Bluwiikoon, Superjolt
> *poast moar:* JuliaTheSeaTurtleQueen, Mr. Ultracool


eir most recent tierlist (strikethroughs mine)


kokorico said:


> Sure. My sanderidge thoughts haven't really changed much since what I said earlier, that she didn't react as if w/w with Bluwiikoon and had made a couple of towny posts. Slightly later on, she presented a slightly disorganised list of reads that lined up pretty well with my own, even though I hadn't talked about all of them in-thread yet. That made me feel a little more confident both in them and in her. But I don't have anything I would consider strong evidence either way yet.
> 
> Superjolt is probably the most scum-looking person at the moment, but that could also plausibly just be a lack of time/experience/interest. For example, he popped in very briefly at the start of the Day when it seemed like he might be coming under the microscope for inactivity, but didn't stick around for long. More recently, his reads list was really very thin on information and most people's entries boiled down to "idk". I was also a little bemused when, in response to my question about his opinion on the representatives idea, he cited mewtini's argument against it - but she didn't make that argument until _after_ I asked the question!





kokorico said:


> As far as my vote goes, on balance I think I'd like to err on the side of being optimistic about Superjolt, for a similar reason to my opinions on our N0 kill in Cats (2019) - unwillingness to bump off the newer players before they've really had a chance to actually play. So I'm going to go for *Ultracool*. I don't really subscribe to "policy lynch the inactives" either, but I don't see a better target.





kokorico said:


> I should clarify I don't think a Superjolt yeet would be a terrible play in principle, it's just not the way I'm personally leaning.





hm. i don't think the koko nk makes really anyone look all that bad tbh. maybe blu or jolt? but e didn't really argue all that much against them or ... anyone, in particular. i think the rationale of "koko is a loud/authoritative town voice" makes the most sense to me atm


Spoiler: a lot of mp7 quotes






M Plus 7 said:


> Look at that slank cover, let's kill Keldeo.


keldeo w confirmed tbh


M Plus 7 said:


> Blu is town.


blu's gotten TRed off of tone a decent amount but i think mp7 being the most vocal pro-blu voice thus far would make him an unideal d1 target in the world where blu is a wolf, if the daykill was indeed mafia (this post comes after a decent amount of mp7 talking about blu)


M Plus 7 said:


> M Plus 7 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Trebek's posting is _incredibly_ awkward.
> 
> 
> 
> Actually, you know what, let's do this.
> *Trebek*
Click to expand...

i'm pretty sure trebek is town tbh but i'll put this here for the sake of fairness 
(don't feel like quoting more mp7-on-trebek stuff but there's a decent amount; trebek came away getting about nullread though, see below)


M Plus 7 said:


> *d1 MP7 vibes-based reads*
> 
> Never yeet today
> Keldeo_ -- I see no cause for concern, but he's Keldeo... but also screw tinfoil and I believe I can confidently figure him out by d3_
> mewtini -- _Reminds me of Cats mew, seems genuinely solvey enough, she's fine_
> 
> Almost never yeet today
> Blu -- _Tone is absolutely impeccable, gut loved entrance post and subsequent stream, mindmeld with Keldeo, need to pressure for more reads but OK for now_
> 
> Probably do not yeet today
> sande -- _Tone is good, content is ~fine, needs some pressure at some point and I would like to interact with, but riding with this for now_
> 
> Ughhh maybe 1 wolf here but I'm not sure I want to yeet?
> koko -- _conflicted feelings, reads of Blu and Keldeo read like TMI, but gut likes recent posting, probably can solve with more data_
> Trebek -- _conflicted feelings, gut very much disliked at first, but eased after time and interactions, also considering mew's thoughts here_
> 
> Upper POE - could yeet today but not enthusiastically
> kyeugh -- _hard to discern given lack of reads, need more data, taking Keldeo's point re: agenda into consideration
> Mist -- eh, no reason to townread at all really, but probably can clear with more time_
> Ysabel -- _certain reads seem forced, need to interact with for more data_
> Julia -- _new player, not ideal for d1 yeet, but *shrug*_
> 
> POE - totally okay with yeet today
> Ultracool -- _effectively null slot, objectively a good play_
> Superjolt -- _major contrast to posts that I saw in Cats, lacking substance, agree with Keldeo thoughts_
> 
> Consequently, I want to add pressure here.
> 
> *Superjolt*


blu mentioned in the post above mine (835) that the bomb could've been deflecting blame from sande but given their high-ish placement here and mp7's other more enduringly negative reads, idk?


M Plus 7 said:


> Tinfoil can go fuck off. Your [Keldeo's] posts are genuine.





M Plus 7 said:


> Actually, I just found a reason Keldeo is town. I'm very uncharacteristically holding it close to my chest for now. Just trust me on this. I'll re-evaluate if necessary, but nah, Keldeo can definitely be town.


i do not think that w!keldeo targets mp7 on d1, since mp7 was his most active/vocal townreader and there are still a lot of people worried about keldeo's meta being similar across his two alignments tbh


M Plus 7 said:


> It is possible... I realize I had TMI in Cats, but I felt like SJ could display a towny spark there even if not in a pronounced way. I still sort of feel eh about leaving them alive though because personally I detected more towny there on d1 than here





M Plus 7 said:


> My gut wants Ysabel on fire, but I have not had a chance to talk to them, and I would feel incredibly bad if I led a flashwagon there and was wrong. It's not the right play right now. Trebek is another possibility, but eh.


ysabel scumlean seemed relatively nonserious imo, already mentioned trebek above


M Plus 7 said:


> <superjolt's ~final post>
> I think I don't want to be on Superjolt anymore. This reads genuine.





M Plus 7 said:


> Then again... it could be easy enough to fake. Hmmm. What is the emotion here and is it alignment indicative. That is the question.


(she doesn't move off of joltwagon)


M Plus 7 said:


> My gut frowns at that [sande's] reads list, but... not something I want to flashwagon for sure. Hmmm.





M Plus 7 said:


> My gut wants to flashwagon sande, lmao. Okay, yeah, don't do that.


this post came up pretty much right before EoD, and idrk what the progression was since it comes almost right after the quote above (looks like the main thing that sande did between these two posts is give a readlist/vote ultracool)


i think that blu/keldeo come away from this one looking good, in order of 'bad' i think it's like jolt > sande > trebek


----------



## mewtini

i am very interested in other interpretations because i think my logic kind of sucks atm.


----------



## mewtini

mewtini said:


> jolt > sande >= trebek


edit


----------



## Trebek

mewtini said:


> mewtini said:
> 
> 
> 
> jolt > sande >= trebek
> 
> 
> 
> edit
Click to expand...

i agree with this ordering from the ISO, but my gut is telling me that it’d be way too high profile of a play for w!jolt to go after mp7 right after narrowly avoiding getting yeeted

this may just be WIFOM idk


----------



## mewtini

yeah the hole in my logic is that i went for the most overt takes possible because i think it'd be unfair for me to let my wifom get in the way of like, post analysis/presenting it to everyone else


----------



## Trebek

mewtini said:


> yeah the hole in my logic is that i went for the most overt takes possible because i think it'd be unfair for me to let my wifom get in the way of like, post analysis/presenting it to everyone else


that’s actually totally valid, people should make their own wifom conclusions with the given information


----------



## Bluwiikoon

Here is me trying to uhhhh mentally sort people. Organisation!

*Blu:*
Bluwiikoon

*Masons <3:*
Trebek, mewtini

*Standard Keldeo play, may need to examine :*
Keldeo

*Depends what alignment the popularity changer role is :*
kyeugh, Ysabel

*Hmm:*
Superjolt, sanderidge, Mist1422

*Null:*
JuliaTheSeaTurtleQueen

*Rip :*
Mr. Ultracool, kokorico, M Plus 7


----------



## mewtini

god i feel like i should be more nervous about another ot3 coming up ... war flashbacks ...


----------



## mewtini

Bluwiikoon said:


> *Depends what alignment the popularity changer role is :*
> kyeugh, Ysabel


what thoughts do you have on these two beyond the semi-mechspeculation? (sorry if you've talked about this before!)


----------



## Bluwiikoon

mewtini said:


> Bluwiikoon said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Depends what alignment the popularity changer role is :*
> kyeugh, Ysabel
> 
> 
> 
> what thoughts do you have on these two beyond the semi-mechspeculation? (sorry if you've talked about this before!)
Click to expand...

Thank you for asking!  I like kyeugh based on joke tone, and because leggy snom is the underdog. Have not absorbed many of her takes into my brain thus far, but I can always ISO or reread.

Ysabel seems smart! It's interesting seeing how she contributes with her different playstyle, and her solvy-ness makes me wanna townread. I'm not ruling out that she's a wolf (I mean, look at her icon!), but if the popularity changer is maf then it goes from "maybe" to


----------



## Bluwiikoon

Seshas said:


> *Popularity Scale:*
> 3 - Motivated (preforms 2 actions per night)
> 2 - Doublevoter
> 1 - Loved (Is treated as having 1 less vote on them than normal)


If popularity changer is maf then this is really good incentives to point it at their own people, I feel


----------



## Trebek

mewtini said:


> god i feel like i should be more nervous about another ot3 coming up ... war flashbacks ...


literally me rn ;( what if mewt is secretly dabbing on me


----------



## Trebek

Bluwiikoon said:


> Seshas said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Popularity Scale:*
> 3 - Motivated (preforms 2 actions per night)
> 2 - Doublevoter
> 1 - Loved (Is treated as having 1 less vote on them than normal)
> 
> 
> 
> If popularity changer is maf then this is really good incentives to point it at their own people, I feel
Click to expand...

yeah, this is why i was thinking that the role (if mafia) would have to alternate between + and -, bc otherwise they’d be double killing from N3 and thats aaaaaaa


----------



## Trebek

man it didn’t sink in until i read blu’s tierlist how few people are left

and no mafia ded

i’m scawed


----------



## Bluwiikoon

If the popularity changer can't target their self, it also rules kyeugh and Ysabel out from having that role.


----------



## Trebek

Bluwiikoon said:


> If the popularity changer can't target their self, it also rules kyeugh and Ysabel out from having that role.


this is an interesting thought, but i wouldn’t be surprised if they could target themself. i would love to come back to this post once more roles get talked about though!


----------



## Trebek

bc honestly i do actually feel like if i could target myself, i might lower my own popularity to not make anyone upset


----------



## Bluwiikoon

Who would have a motive for bullying kyeugh n0 though


----------



## kyeugh

Bluwiikoon said:


> Depends what alignment the popularity changer role is :


 can you expand on this? i guess i get the ysabel thing but i’m uncertain what bearing the alignment of the popularity shitterificitinator has on mine



Bluwiikoon said:


> *Hmm:*
> Superjolt, sanderidge, Mist1422


why sande tbh


----------



## Novae

ok so I forgot tcodfia existed for a few hours due to other stuff

But since my MP7 townread was proven right I’m going to go ahead and sheep her onto *sanderidge *


----------



## Bluwiikoon

If RNP or VM were in this game, I swear-


----------



## Bluwiikoon

kyeugh said:


> Bluwiikoon said:
> 
> 
> 
> Depends what alignment the popularity changer role is :
> 
> 
> 
> can you expand on this? i guess i get the ysabel thing but i’m uncertain what bearing the alignment of the popularity shitterificitinator has on mine
Click to expand...

If they're town I'd assume they don't know what your alignment is, thus you're null. If they're maf, you'd probably be town because debuffing their side seems silly?



> Bluwiikoon said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Hmm:*
> Superjolt, sanderidge, Mist1422
> 
> 
> 
> why sande tbh
Click to expand...

They're one of the last people MP7 was theorising about yesterday, before they got bombed today.  Could definitely be a frame, but sande also seems to lack confidence and be a bit nervous atm.


----------



## Trebek

i think if the popularity role is town then it’s NAI for skylar, but if it’s mafia then it’s still NAI but in a much more WIFOM-y way?


----------



## kyeugh

i kind of think mp7 gets nightkilled in that case rather than blown up conspicuously in the middle of the day several hours in honestly. that’s a pretty small thing to use a terrorist charge on. my guess is that the mafia obtained information overnight that made them want to take mp7 out
i kind of do not like the idea of suspecting someone who i feel has made pretty good and insightful posting because someone who shaded them a bit got ded


----------



## Bluwiikoon

That's fair tbh! It makes me wonder why a nightkill was used on koko in that case, if MP7 was perceived as too good a player to live


----------



## Trebek

kyeugh said:


> i kind of think mp7 gets nightkilled in that case rather than blown up conspicuously in the middle of the day several hours in honestly. that’s a pretty small thing to use a terrorist charge on. my guess is that the mafia obtained information overnight that made them want to take mp7 out
> i kind of do not like the idea of suspecting someone who i feel has made pretty good and insightful posting because someone who shaded them a bit got ded


this would imply that the mafia have a night killer, a day killer, and an investigator? or would some of those roles overlap? bc that might affect wether or not we think the popularity dude is town or maf


----------



## Bluwiikoon

Dayvig could also be town, right? I'm not sure why a townie would vig MP7, unless they perceived something that I'm not perceiving.


----------



## Novae

night killer would most likely be a factional kill

I’m wondering if MP7 was a potential strong player kill and what that means for keldeo but it’s probably a silly theory


----------



## Novae

Bluwiikoon said:


> Dayvig could also be town, right? I'm not sure why a townie would vig MP7, unless they perceived something that I'm not perceiving.


could also be some sort of neutral/informed outgroup tbh


----------



## Bluwiikoon

If maf have a rolecop then _oh fuck_ tbh


----------



## mewtini

Bluwiikoon said:


> Who would have a motive for bullying kyeugh n0 though


me


----------



## Novae

I could buy a popularity-affecting role but it’s probably town in that case? Wouldn’t really fit as scum with a controllable action


----------



## Novae

we should be deciding on consensus targets for the song role tbh tbh


----------



## kyeugh

Trebek said:


> kyeugh said:
> 
> 
> 
> i kind of think mp7 gets nightkilled in that case rather than blown up conspicuously in the middle of the day several hours in honestly. that’s a pretty small thing to use a terrorist charge on. my guess is that the mafia obtained information overnight that made them want to take mp7 out
> i kind of do not like the idea of suspecting someone who i feel has made pretty good and insightful posting because someone who shaded them a bit got ded
> 
> 
> 
> this would imply that the mafia have a night killer, a day killer, and an investigator? or would some of those roles overlap? bc that might affect wether or not we think the popularity dude is town or maf
Click to expand...

it would suggest that tbh! i should probably let the snom out of the bag here, part of my role is that i can tell when i get rolecopped—and i did, n0! so this chain of events suggests to me that the rolecop is scum, mp7 got checked overnight, and a mafia daykiller shot her shortly afterwards because she had a power role of some kind that they wanted to suppress. (they left me alone because my role is kind of useless, i expect.)

is there anyone who came into the thread right around the shot?


----------



## mewtini

kyeugh said:


> is there anyone who came into the thread right around the shot?


me tbh


----------



## kyeugh

mewtini said:


> kyeugh said:
> 
> 
> 
> is there anyone who came into the thread right around the shot?
> 
> 
> 
> me tbh
Click to expand...


----------



## mewtini

Bluwiikoon said:


> Could definitely be a frame, but sande also seems to lack confidence and be a bit nervous atm.


i think this is NAI tbh!
i'm pretty waffly on sande in that i think their posting could come from either alignment so far but i also agree w skylar that i don't think the shade mp7 threw on her was enough to warrant a oneshot sort of power, if that is what it was

also the rolecop theory makes sense now that we have confirmation that there is one? (also skylar is this yet another game where you get some sort of info on when you get targeted, bc history really would be repeating itself then,)

i'm not following the popularity rolespec all that well tbh but i saw it mentioned earlier (i think also by skylar) that it could be separate even/odd night roles and i think that that's also viable; agree also that if it's actually one role then alternation makes sense for the sake of balance


----------



## mewtini

let's play 'how many times will mewt say 'also' in one post'


----------



## kyeugh

mewtini said:


> (also skylar is this yet another game where you get some sort of info on when you get targeted, bc history really would be repeating itself then,)


 did this happen before!? i didn’t really get any info last game, i just saw that ils didn’t come back to life and deduced from there. this time the mods just told me straight up that i’d been rolecopped. honestly i’m not sure why i have this power since it’s pretty unrelated to the rest of my role but hey.


----------



## kyeugh

can someone list the remaining players for me? i’m having a head empty moment


----------



## mewtini

i was thinking of le tv tropes


----------



## mewtini

kyeugh said:


> can someone list the remaining players for me? i’m having a head empty moment





Spoiler



julia
mist
blu
sande
jolt
skylar
ysabel
keldeo
mewt
trebek


----------



## kyeugh

hmmm, okay, thanks. i have done enough thinking for toDay. time to vibe.

*mist*


----------



## Trebek

kyeugh said:


> hmmm, okay, thanks. i have done enough thinking for toDay. time to vibe.
> 
> *mist*


i’m sorta head empty on the logic here, would you be able to elaborate lol

i think it’s just me tbh


----------



## mewtini

it is not just you


----------



## kyeugh

no more thinking toDay. only vibing. this is the way.


----------



## mewtini

> *m.*youtube.com
canceled


----------



## Ys_

Bluwiikoon said:


> Here is me trying to uhhhh mentally sort people. Organisation!
> 
> *Blu:*
> Bluwiikoon
> 
> *Masons <3:*
> Trebek, mewtini
> 
> *Standard Keldeo play, may need to examine :*
> Keldeo
> 
> *Depends what alignment the popularity changer role is :*
> kyeugh, Ysabel
> 
> *Hmm:*
> Superjolt, sanderidge, Mist1422
> 
> *Null:*
> JuliaTheSeaTurtleQueen
> 
> *Rip :*
> Mr. Ultracool, kokorico, M Plus 7


Hi! What if I said I knew the secret password to your super secret club? :P
Some of my reactions may confirm it.
As for the popularizeinator or whatever you'd call it, what makes you think it could both be a mafia power or the same power?
Still catching up on things, but I think I have a better idea of what to look for.


----------



## mewtini

secret password is just being cool tbh


----------



## Trebek

Ysabel said:


> Bluwiikoon said:
> 
> 
> 
> Here is me trying to uhhhh mentally sort people. Organisation!
> 
> *Blu:*
> Bluwiikoon
> 
> *Masons <3:*
> Trebek, mewtini
> 
> *Standard Keldeo play, may need to examine :*
> Keldeo
> 
> *Depends what alignment the popularity changer role is :*
> kyeugh, Ysabel
> 
> *Hmm:*
> Superjolt, sanderidge, Mist1422
> 
> *Null:*
> JuliaTheSeaTurtleQueen
> 
> *Rip :*
> Mr. Ultracool, kokorico, M Plus 7
> 
> 
> 
> Hi! What if I said I knew the secret password to your super secret club? :P
> Some of my reactions may confirm it.
> As for the popularizeinator or whatever you'd call it, what makes you think it could both be a mafia power or the same power?
> Still catching up on things, but I think I have a better idea of what to look for.
Click to expand...

you may be considered for the secret club..... will ISO when i am not falling asleep at the keyboard :p



kyeugh said:


> no more thinking toDay. only vibing. this is the way.


i was fully expecting this to be a Mandalorian quote bc i totally forgot that this existed. now i’m angy


----------



## Trebek

mewtini said:


> secret password is just being cool tbh


actually yeah, this tbh

i need to kick myself out now :( bye everyone


----------



## Trebek

Ysabel said:


> As for the popularizeinator or whatever you'd call it, what makes you think it could both be a mafia power or the same power?


the way i see it there are 2 options for the number of people:

either it’s 2 separate roles that each can only operate on alternating nights

or it’s one role that has to switch between popularity up and popularity down

given the small player base my gut is telling  me that the second is more likely, regardless of if it’s town or maf


----------



## Ys_

Post #601 may help. Which confirms I Noticed Something(tm) before you started talking about it so openly...


----------



## Keldeo

I feel left out of this club smh. 

I semi-strongly think Mist/Sande are not mafia partners based on Mist using MP's flip as a catalyst to push sande. This is because I think if it were a bus Mist might have played up their own feelings more rather than attributing their confidence to MP, and because I don't think that as mafia they would have needed to make that shot and then point out specifically that MP was gut scumreading sande at EOD... These could be moves for cred but no thinking just vibing.

I need to reread to have real thoughts on either. I wouldn't go so far as to say that there is exactly one mafia between them, but outside of them there aren't that many options...? Hmm.


----------



## Keldeo

Oh noo don't sad react mewtini! I'm fine, I just don't get what you all are talking about, haha


----------



## mewtini

keldeo you're part of the club in my heart.


----------



## Trebek

Keldeo said:


> I feel left out of this club smh.
> 
> I semi-strongly think Mist/Sande are not mafia partners based on Mist using MP's flip as a catalyst to push sande. This is because I think if it were a bus Mist might have played up their own feelings more rather than attributing their confidence to MP, and because I don't think that as mafia they would have needed to make that shot and then point out specifically that MP was gut scumreading sande at EOD... These could be moves for cred but no thinking just vibing.
> 
> I need to reread to have real thoughts on either. I wouldn't go so far as to say that there is exactly one mafia between them, but outside of them there aren't that many options...? Hmm.


yeah, i’m wondering if my PoE is gonna force me to conclude that there’s one mafia between them, but idk about much rn tbh


----------



## Trebek

i’m whittling down the number of players in my PoE waaaaay too quickly, is sorta scary


----------



## mewtini

where are you looking atm?


----------



## sanderidge

this is post 894! apparently my longpost habits carry over to when i'm taking notes bc i'm only on post 159 out of 890 in my notes! i've been reading stuff through the day although i haven't been posting (and also playing fire emblem. that has also been taking Time) and i will try to crawl out of this adventure with at least a post to show for it. this is hopefully not that post


----------



## Trebek

mewtini said:


> where are you looking atm?


realized i worded that kinda poorly. haven’t had the brainpower/time to really delve into my PoE, but processing the people who are not in my PoE anymore is a little woweek bc i really wanna trust people  but i’m scarred from cats


----------



## Trebek

Trebek said:


> mewtini said:
> 
> 
> 
> where are you looking atm?
> 
> 
> 
> realized i worded that kinda poorly. haven’t had the brainpower/time to really delve into my PoE, but processing the people who are not in my PoE anymore is a little woweek bc i really wanna trust people  but i’m scarred from cats
Click to expand...

i am interested in keldeos thoughts on mist/sande, but am also sorta hmmmm about the skylar vote


----------



## Trebek

Trebek said:


> Trebek said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> mewtini said:
> 
> 
> 
> where are you looking atm?
> 
> 
> 
> realized i worded that kinda poorly. haven’t had the brainpower/time to really delve into my PoE, but processing the people who are not in my PoE anymore is a little woweek bc i really wanna trust people  but i’m scarred from cats
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> i am interested in keldeos thoughts on mist/sande, but am also sorta hmmmm about the skylar vote
Click to expand...

i think those 3 are who i wanna look at when i feel smart enough to


----------



## Keldeo

Hey, so how strong is this mutual clear thing, taking into consideration that e.g. rari was maf (lol)? Would you townread Ysabel for it too? I'm always gonna be skeptical of placing trust in something I'm not privy to, but I am kind of struggling with my own reads here, haha. I tried rereading Ysabel and got approximately nowhere... I'll try again tomorrow with fresh eyes, I guess.

With presumably 3 mafia of 10 alive, with the towncore method I think we need a winning POE of 4, aka correctly clearing 5 people in addition to yourself... so it's okay to have a small POE.


----------



## Keldeo

Mist/Superjolt are also maybe unlikely mafia partners given Mist voting Superjolt last EOD and pushing against the v/v wagons theory. It is maybe possible that Mist saw the writing on the wall that Superjolt would die at some point, and wanted to bus - Superjolt's Mist read is a pretty ordinary null. 

I also think Mist/Ysabel had a partner-compatible day 1, but need to reread Ysabel's ISO of Mist today. 

I can point to some reason they could be town for just about everyone, except of course Julia, so I'm wrong somewhere.


----------



## Keldeo

I suppose Julia would be a sound elimination today if only for the fact that mafia can strong-arm stuff in LYLO if she’s alive, town, and not voting. But that’s the easy way out.


----------



## Bluwiikoon

I'm reasonably confident in the secret club! ^^ I feel like we can reassess it later if need be, but I promise it will make sense when the time is right.

You can trust me, I'm a dolphin!


----------



## Bluwiikoon

If Ysabel is masons, that makes the popularity changer potentially just town or maybe even 3p :O I shall gently shuffle my list



Spoiler



*Blu:*
Bluwiikoon

*Masons <3:*
Trebek, mewtini, Ysabel

*Standard Keldeo play, may need to examine :*
Keldeo

*No choice but to stan leggy snom:*
kyeugh

*Hmm:*
Superjolt, sanderidge, Mist1422

*Null:*
JuliaTheSeaTurtleQueen

*Rip :*
Mr. Ultracool, kokorico, M Plus 7


----------



## Zori

_Votecount (#904):_
*sanderidge* | 1 | Mist1422 (#855)
*Mist1422* | 1 | kyeugh (#878)



Spoiler: Vote History



Mist1422 votes sanderidge (#855)
kyeugh votes Mist1422 (#878)


----------



## Bluwiikoon

O shid I didn't realise we had votes already

I'm gonna peep at D1's results and see if I can articulate an intelligent thought ^^


----------



## Zori

*Moderator Message: Due to not having logged into the site for almost 72 hours, @JuliaTheSeaTurtleQueen is getting force-replaced.*


----------



## Bluwiikoon

Well shit, that's unfortunate :(

Bring in the fresh Snom!!


----------



## Zori

Seshas said:


> *Moderator Message: Due to not having logged into the site for almost 72 hours, @JuliaTheSeaTurtleQueen is getting force-replaced.*


To be clear, they are still considered in the slot until a replacement is found.


----------



## Bluwiikoon

Ok so here is a quick tally I made of current voting stuff!



Spoiler



*DAY 1:
Mr. Ultracool wagon:*
Keldeo (#574)
Trebek (#584)
kokorico (#644)
sanderidge (#706)

*Superjolt wagon:*
Ysabel (#362)
M Plus 7 (#570)
mewtini (#575)
Mist1422 (#724)

*Non-voters:*
JuliaTheSeaTurtleQueen
Bluwiikoon
Superjolt
kyeugh
Mr. Ultracool

*DAY 2:
Current wagons (12:04 UTC)
Sanderidge wagon:*
Mist1422 (#855)

*Mist1422 wagon:*
kyeugh (#878)



Now, if I apply my personal Mason Clears to this, I personally get:



Spoiler



*DAY 1:
Mr. Ultracool wagon:*
Keldeo (#574)
Trebek (#584)
kokorico (#644)
sanderidge (#706)

*Superjolt wagon:*
Ysabel (#362)
M Plus 7 (#570)
mewtini (#575)
Mist1422 (#724)

*Non-voters:*
JuliaTheSeaTurtleQueen
Bluwiikoon
Superjolt
kyeugh
Mr. Ultracool

*DAY 2:
Current wagons (12:04 UTC)
Sanderidge wagon:*
Mist1422 (#855)

*Mist1422 wagon:*
kyeugh (#878)



I'm trying to figure out how I feel about this, but maybe it can help someone else in the process


----------



## kyeugh

i’m pretty much where keldeo is at + mist’s other thoughts on sande via the uc wagon are weird to me


----------



## Novae

weird how so


----------



## Zori

_Votecount (#912):_
*sanderidge* | 1 | Mist1422 (#855)
*Mist1422* | 1 | kyeugh (#878)



Spoiler: Vote History



*Mist1422 votes sanderidge [->1] (#855)
kyeugh votes Mist1422 [->1] (#878)*



Vote History Fixed


----------



## Trebek

Keldeo said:


> Hey, so how strong is this mutual clear thing, taking into consideration that e.g. rari was maf (lol)? Would you townread Ysabel for it too? I'm always gonna be skeptical of placing trust in something I'm not privy to, but I am kind of struggling with my own reads here, haha. I tried rereading Ysabel and got approximately nowhere... I'll try again tomorrow with fresh eyes, I guess.
> 
> With presumably 3 mafia of 10 alive, with the towncore method I think we need a winning POE of 4, aka correctly clearing 5 people in addition to yourself... so it's okay to have a small POE.


i would say my tierlist of who i trust in the club is mewt>=blu>ysabel, but i’m confident enough in all of them to not worry about it quite yet, although i will definitely be willing to reassess if it comes to it (the nature of what’s going on makes me feel more secure than the rari incident ™)


----------



## mewtini

Trebek said:


> i would say my tierlist of who i trust in the club is mewt>=blu>ysabel


huh. i kind of think blu should be the highest here, and i think ysabel's crumbing was fine, but that is splitting hairs ig
i agree that this is more uh ... secure than the rari events >: to the point where if someone in it is a wolf then something kind of weird is going on imo


----------



## mewtini

but yeah right now i pretty much am not going to be voting on any of blu/ysabel/trebek


----------



## mewtini

Trebek said:


> yeah, i’m wondering if my PoE is gonna force me to conclude that there’s one mafia between them, but idk about much rn tbh


what is your PoE tbh? i kind of would like more reads from you esp now that you're one of my clears :p but if you don't really have them yet then i accept it


----------



## Trebek

mewtini said:


> Trebek said:
> 
> 
> 
> i would say my tierlist of who i trust in the club is mewt>=blu>ysabel
> 
> 
> 
> huh. i kind of think blu should be the highest here, and i think ysabel's crumbing was fine, but that is splitting hairs ig
> i agree that this is more uh ... secure than the rari events >: to the point where if someone in it is a wolf then something kind of weird is going on imo
Click to expand...

ope i meant to say = not >= tbh

not that it matters in the grand scheme of things it’s all very close


----------



## Trebek

mewtini said:


> Trebek said:
> 
> 
> 
> yeah, i’m wondering if my PoE is gonna force me to conclude that there’s one mafia between them, but idk about much rn tbh
> 
> 
> 
> what is your PoE tbh? i kind of would like more reads from you esp now that you're one of my clears :p but if you don't really have them yet then i accept it
Click to expand...

In Progress ™ i’m being very slow this game i’m sowwy


----------



## Trebek

hastily constructed vibe list bc otherwise i’ll forget for another day



Spoiler



*snom club president: *trebek

*snom club members: *mewt, blu, ysabel 

*town lean from vote count: *superjolt 

*town lean from vibes: *kyeugh, keldeo

*head empty: *mist, sande

*head nonexistent: *julia (f in the chat bois)



i think the bottom 3 all being maf is too good to be true (remember our PoE in cats omegalul) but it’s a start?


----------



## mewtini

thanks :o i still think that you might be giving jolt too much of a pass for the vc, but i agree on the rest mostly? except i might be townleaning mist (semi-heavily dependent on other flips, but)


----------



## Trebek

mewtini said:


> thanks :o i still think that you might be giving jolt too much of a pass for the vc, but i agree on the rest mostly? except i might be townleaning mist (semi-heavily dependent on other flips, but)


yeah, i might be. those two separate tiers of townreading are at the same level in my head tho, just to clarify


----------



## Trebek

Trebek said:


> mewtini said:
> 
> 
> 
> thanks :o i still think that you might be giving jolt too much of a pass for the vc, but i agree on the rest mostly? except i might be townleaning mist (semi-heavily dependent on other flips, but)
> 
> 
> 
> yeah, i might be. those two separate tiers of townreading are at the same level in my head tho, just to clarify
Click to expand...

i just wanted to differentiate where the vibes were from


----------



## mewtini

you think jolt is as towny as skylar/keldeo?


----------



## sanderidge

hello i just want to say i am here and at this point i've given up on taking notes bc i go way too slow with them and i am reasonably confident in my ability to remember things for at least an hour and a half... currently thinking
-- rip mp7 
-- but it's also nice to know that the townread i was sort of feeling at on my reread was correct :'D silver linings?! 
-- which also means i shouldn't be too nervous about people if they're pushy and questiony, because that's what i was sort of not feeling good about mp7 for
-- mewtini comes across as really helpful bc they offer a lot of thoughts a lot of the time and post useful things about mech
--  i still feel good about skylar because she's pointed out stuff several times about her being possibly cleared that i really feel like she wouldn't want to post as mafia. this is awkward bc i started feeling okay about her posting after she said she liked mine, f. but still! 
-- ???? at Sudden New Club? also it's a very big sudden new club so i don't feel like it's Hey Let's Openwolf (am i using this word right) but i'm also extremely ????

back to rereading 

(also poe means people that are being suspected right)


----------



## mewtini

sanderidge said:


> (also poe means people that are being suspected right)


process of elimination! the box of people who aren't in towncore and therefore could be wolves


----------



## sanderidge

i'm >:/ about this reread making me feel better about trebek so i am still back at "hewwo............" levels of not having very many suspicions


----------



## Trebek

mewtini said:


> you think jolt is as towny as skylar/keldeo?


i’m not gonna die on this hill tbh it’s just that my gut is telling me that EoD1 would have gone a lot differently if the wagons were v/w tho


----------



## mewtini

yeah, that's fair. i guess i am not convinced esp because of what keldeo mentioned - that it's possible mafia just decided to softbus him, so it still is a bit below my townlean on keldeo/skylar


----------



## Trebek

mewtini said:


> yeah, that's fair. i guess i am not convinced esp because of what keldeo mentioned - that it's possible mafia just decided to softbus him, so it still is a bit below my townlean on keldeo/skylar


yeah, i get that line of thinking as well. gonna mull over where i place him for now hahaha...


----------



## mewtini

idrk if i actively suspect jolt either considering that the shallow reads i'm kind of pinning him for could be the result of a lot of other things but i'm def not at the point of town___ing him

my general thinking is probably like, (one of mist/sande)/julia (rip)/jolt i guess? i'll trust mp7's keldeo read and vibe on my gutread of skylar for the time being


----------



## Trebek

yeah like, i don’t want to pressure julia/whoever subs in right as they do but like

it seems like one of the best options at the moment lol :(


----------



## kyeugh

sanderidge said:


> (also poe means people that are being suspected right)


----------



## mewtini

i saw this coming but still
*kyeugh*


----------



## sanderidge

it looks like he's going "awoo" in that gif so this means skylar is suspecting me of being a furry. in this post i will


----------



## mewtini

Trebek said:


> yeah like, i don’t want to pressure julia/whoever subs in right as they do but like
> 
> it seems like one of the best options at the moment lol :(


man i'm sorry to push my jolt-train but i don't really get why that slot would be a safer bet at all considering we probably want to safety lynch today
the way i'm seeing it if mist's tinfoil about jolt/sande is right we still lynch jolt first anyway and i'm slightly more inclined to side with the 'mist town' side of the split


----------



## mewtini

though it is a very slight inclination tbh because i also like sandeposting ... idk


----------



## mewtini

mist just sounds similar to lategame cats for me (except probably townier even) but i also have no idea how they sound as mafia


----------



## sanderidge

other thought: if stealth rocks exploded i would be like "maybe if we speculated too much about the rock it would explode and kill one of us and that's why mp7 died!!!!" but i don't think stealth rocks explode


----------



## Trebek

mewtini said:


> Trebek said:
> 
> 
> 
> yeah like, i don’t want to pressure julia/whoever subs in right as they do but like
> 
> it seems like one of the best options at the moment lol :(
> 
> 
> 
> man i'm sorry to push my jolt-train but i don't really get why that slot would be a safer bet at all considering we probably want to safety lynch today
> the way i'm seeing it if mist's tinfoil about jolt/sande is right we still lynch jolt first anyway and i'm slightly more inclined to side with the 'mist town' side of the split
Click to expand...

oh i didn’t mean to say that i was objectively preferring julia, i’m still not sure which direction i’m leaning in

that post was just purely me being sad about the state of affairs


----------



## mewtini

i guess that i just think that, if we're trying to sort the emerging mist vs. jolt or sande split, that voting julia would sort of be ineffective/lazy ig


----------



## mewtini

w the context that we have one mislynch left


----------



## Trebek

mewtini said:


> i guess that i just think that, if we're trying to sort the emerging mist vs. jolt or sande split, that voting julia would sort of be ineffective/lazy ig


yeah, that’s totally valid and part of why i was FeelsBadding about it

i don’t think a scenario pops up where i actually vote julia today for the record


----------



## Trebek

also, now that we’re in a new day are we privy to more skylarthoughts? :o


----------



## sanderidge

i caught up!! i'm proud of myself!! i, uh, am probably going to go play fire emblem for a while but i'll still be reading the thread.

i said this earlier, but i feel better about trebek now, because he seems to be speculating helpfully about the possible mech information we got out of the popularity changing role/s(?). i still feel good about keldeo and mewt and skylar.

i feel like it's weird/not smart to be like "this person voted for me, and Then when i read and caught up they didn't post that many helpful things i felt weird-bad about them" but that is how i feel about mist right now :p so for me mist has utterly replaced ysabel to be my Most Suspicioned. i looked at their iso and there's three pages of _really short _posts? there are some slightly helpful things early on (don't hypocop: 32, ignore popularity to stop mafia from pr-hunting: 146). they did say they were busy with work that day though. the next Day they're more helpful, and talk a little bit about wagons from yesterDay (758, 766, also 768). they speculate really briefly (one or two single-lined posts) about the popularity role/s (867) + about the deaths (863, 864). then they suggest consensus targets for the song role but it doesn't seem like anyone's gotten back to that yet.

idk! i just feel like there's not a lot there to go off of. people talk a lot about how mafia usually have an agenda and it doesn't seem like mist really has one? but ysabel's also mentioned that a maf strategy can be keep low profile and be Helpful Ish and maybe this fits under that. so i'm going to be >:/ at them for now. i'm feeling nervous to vote early so i won't do that yet but that's where my vote mentally is.


----------



## Zori

_Votecount (#944):_
*sanderidge* | 1 | Mist1422 (#855)
*Mist1422* | 1 | kyeugh (#878)
*kyeugh* | 1 | mewtini (#933)



Spoiler: Vote History



*Mist1422 votes sanderidge [->1] (#855)
kyeugh votes Mist1422 [->1] (#878)
mewtini votes kyeugh [->1] (#933)*


----------



## Ys_

Fwiw I don't think it's as easy to fake as you may think, and I also don't think anyone else is part of it. But if you still don't feel 100% confident about me then by all means feel free to sus me/question me. I'm willing to prove myself.



kyeugh said:


> i forget if i’ve said this already but i kind of disagree with this. while the diss role could be mafia for sure, i don’t think it’s right to assume that it’s PROBABLY mafia to the point that we’re building reads on other people from it. i’m all for getting townleaned but i don’t want it to be built on pillars of sand and that’s how i kind of feel when a bunch of people’s reads are informed by it.
> 
> it sounds like most of you guys are in agreement about keldeo/mewtini/mp7/blu? hmm. maybe i’ll reread the thread tomorrow… if you guys all see it, maybe i’m missing something.


The part about not clearing Kyeugh based on just that flavor seems fair. I do agree that Keldeo, mewt and Blu sound/act towny, even before the secret club thing. I'm like 90% sure Keldeo is town. If he's mafia, then I have a theory that the partners could be SJ and Julia. (may help to explain why there wasn't much movement, but I'm leaning more on SJ as town for reasons others have mentioned + one other theory.


M Plus 7 said:


> *d1 MP7 vibes-based reads*
> 
> Never yeet today
> Keldeo_ -- I see no cause for concern, but he's Keldeo... but also screw tinfoil and I believe I can confidently figure him out by d3 _*note that later on she seemed practically 100% certain that Keldeo was town. But my w!keldeo conspiracy theory says he may have killed MP because she was one of the only ones who could correctly read him.
> mewtini -- _Reminds me of Cats mew, seems genuinely solvey enough, she's fine _yep
> 
> Almost never yeet today
> Blu -- _Tone is absolutely impeccable, gut loved entrance post and subsequent stream, mindmeld with Keldeo, need to pressure for more reads but OK for now _yep
> 
> Probably do not yeet today
> sande -- _Tone is good, content is ~fine, needs some pressure at some point and I would like to interact with, but riding with this for now _she was more unsure of sande later on. Wonder why the shift.
> 
> Ughhh maybe 1 wolf here but I'm not sure I want to yeet?
> *koko* -- _conflicted feelings, reads of Blu and Keldeo read like TMI, but gut likes recent posting, probably can solve with more data_
> Trebek -- _conflicted feelings, gut very much disliked at first, but eased after time and interactions, also considering mew's thoughts here_
> 
> Upper POE - could yeet today but not enthusiastically
> kyeugh -- _hard to discern given lack of reads, need more data, taking Keldeo's point re: agenda into consideration
> Mist -- eh, no reason to townread at all really, but probably can clear with more time_
> Ysabel -- _certain reads seem forced, need to interact with for more data_
> Julia -- _new player, not ideal for d1 yeet, but *shrug*_
> 
> POE - totally okay with yeet today
> Ultracool -- _effectively null slot, objectively a good play_
> Superjolt -- _major contrast to posts that I saw in Cats, lacking substance, agree with Keldeo thoughts_
> 
> Consequently, I want to add pressure here.
> 
> *Superjolt*


Hmm. Kyeugh, SJ, Mist (Julia doesn't count bc inactivity means she couldn't have killed MP). Though SJ and Mist are not in the same mafia team together unless Mist thought voting for SJ could townclear them later on?? AKA a gamble?


Keldeo said:


> Superjolt hedges in most of his takes in #369 (mewtini and Ysabel are the only ones without some sort of qualifier). I kind of think this is a him thing regardless of his alignment, he wasn't able to say much more confidently after a bit more posting in early Cats... I appreciate him giving the thoughts at least and want to unvote because let's give him another day here.


conspiracy theory says that could be a w/w interaction but also I want to say fair enough? Also again, what does hedging mean?


kokorico said:


> *chicken god:* kokorico
> *pretty towny so far:* Keldeo, mewtini
> *the grey area:* Ysabel, Trebek, kyeugh, *M Plus 7*, sanderidge, Mist1422
> *uneasy:* Bluwiikoon, Superjolt
> *poast moar:* JuliaTheSeaTurtleQueen, *Mr. Ultracool*


fwiw e was sussing/voting for SJ before switching to MU.



sanderidge said:


> i don't think that mafia would go and point out the possible reasons why that (the popularity targeting thing) _doesn't_ clear them, i feel like they'd just ride with it and be like yeah!! that confirms me as town!!! _especially _if they chose to start out debuffing one of their own that way. i dont think i have time to go find the post where skylar said that being debuffed doesn't confirm her as town but i feel good about that


I feel like this is a genuine point, and something that would make me feel better about Kyeugh too. Although I'm not as sure about Kyeugh now, so would have to ISO her. Townlean for Sanderidge, null for Kyeugh.


sanderidge said:


> i think i mentioned this earlier (and they did just now) but we're like the only two people in the thread who aren't really reading blu as town for tone? maybe it's bc i wasn't In cats and was just reading along but for me blu is sitting just above neutral, not really town. i feel like i'm kind of sheeping koko bc i feel like i'm repeating a lot of things e says... maybe we just think similarly idk. but i feel okay about koko bc what e's thinking lines up with what i'm thinking.


Also seems fair and makes me townlean sanderidge. And koko ended up being town, so. Maybe not something a maf couldn't emulate, though, just maybe not as spontaneously as this post seems to be.


sanderidge said:


> what i meant by this is *that i don't feel like not knowing things about the game, the way julia came in and asked about it, necessarily clears people*: i feel like if someone who didn't know anything about mafia got a mafia role, their scum team might tell them to come into the thread and express their confusion there in case that clears them. that might be kind of tinfoil of me, though, and based on how some others are saying they feel like mafia wouldn't do that / they feel julia's tone was okay (and some are saying maybe not?!), i'm putting that thought aside for later.


seems fair, too. Especially the bolded part, though I think someone else had already pointed that out.


sanderidge said:


> reads on blu relate to reads on julia bc those reads both seem like a lot of people are reading them towny for tone, and i don't really agree with the Majority Feeling on blu, so it makes sense to me that i also wouldn't feel the same way on julia. but again i'm putting this thought down for now bc it's 11:29am and eod is Soon


Hmm, fair, except Julia had only posted twice and Blu more, and my read on Blu was more than just tone-based iirc.


M Plus 7 said:


> I am mildly concerned UC/SJ are v/v for no particular reason, but not sure what the better alternative is at this junction. Both slots are problematic and unlikely to be moved out of the POE.


Yeahh... agreed.


Keldeo said:


> People in the thread: you, kokorico, mewtini, sande. I already townread the first three, and even if not, no one is... like... doing anything to move the wagons away from this grouping. Popularity throws a wrench into this line of thinking, but I still think that's kind of weird if the wagons are v/w, as there's probably at least 2 town who'd get +1 popularity from a mafia flip here. Also, if they're w/w I definitely think their third partner would be trying to do something right now if they were here.


Maybe the third partner was Julia? Kind of unlucky for mafia if that was the case... but yeah, the simplest theory is that the trains were both v/v.


Trebek said:


> actually, hot take:
> 
> if the wagons are v/v, who is currently not voting? this is sorta what i was thinking of when i made the post ™ that seems to be getting quoted a lot
> 
> if wagons are v/v mafia know their popularity will go down so they might try to avoid voting and let town self destruct


Umm SJ, Julia, Kyeugh and I think I'm forgetting someone


sanderidge said:


> M Plus 7 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> sanderidge said:
> 
> 
> 
> i think i tend to do a lot of really long quote-heavy longposts and that. is not great for eod i don't think
> 
> 
> 
> Interactions are better! How are you feeling about the gamestate? Could you throw down an updated reads list or something super quickly?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> hello!! i'm feeling kind of weird about not knowing what exactly happened in the second half + realizing our memory problems probably are not great for playing mafia, especially with any realtime things. also i haven't voted yet and i feel like i need to so that's making me feel a little nervous
> 
> current reads, minus me:
> Julia -- not sure about; putting aside for later, since i think the only thing she's posted is entrance/not knowing what mafia is so far? i would feel bad taking out a newer player really early though fair
> Mist1422 -- lower neutral feelings; i feel like they've said helpful things but i don't remember what. have they been around recently?? shrug maybe but not prominently
> Mr. Ultracool -- ??????? have they posted at all? nope. RIP
> Bluwiikoon -- i've talked about them a fair amount so far, i think; i feel like they're sitting right at neutral because i'm not actually reading their tone to be that... town-indicative? hmm ok.
> Superjolt -- also ????? i remember they posted on the first day and a throwaway comment about their hat but not much else. and a reads list
> kyeugh -- feeling good!! for reasons mentioned in my last longer post for the part about popularity iirc? But yeah...
> kokorico -- also feeling good because we're thinking similarly about blu and also about skylar i think mhmm
> M Plus 7 -- good-neutral! i think you're doing Solvy Things? mhmm
> Ysabel -- solid neutral? i'm not really sure what they're doing when they are asking and answering questions; it doesn't feel as productive to me, but i do think they might have good ideas / do want to help fair enough. it's interesting to see reads about me and almost everyone seems to have me as neutral, so
> Keldeo -- instinct says Trust Keldeo lol but that instinct is from when i was reading cats mafia and thought he was town -_-  ^^' a pretty genuine read if you ask me ? Also I didn't read cats so idk
> mewtini -- good-neutral! i am also going Trust Mewt from when i read cats mafia and bc i feel like they've been doing good Poking At People's Thoughts mhmm agreed
> Trebek -- solid neutral? i just... don't think i remember a lot about what they've posted aside from that early pointing out about mafia and popularity and wagons fair enough
> 
> if we're looking at current wagons i think i'll go* ultracool* because i don't remember a _single_ post from them, vs others in neutral and good where i do remember at least some things.
Click to expand...

Seems fair enough/genuine though not very strong. I don't think they were faking much of these reads tbh.



Trebek said:


> also, i feel like the numbers in this game mean that the mafia should be less willing to bus than they were in cats? maybe i’m thinking about that wrong


fwiw I thought only one mafia at most would be in each train. Never more than one, because there would be no need unless one of those trains was a wolf.



sanderidge said:


> fuck i forgot day started today


ehh also seems genuine?


sanderidge said:


> mewtini said:
> 
> 
> 
> - @sanderidge in 650 you say this:
> 
> 
> sanderidge said:
> 
> 
> 
> this is a Good Poast and i feel good about trebek for it. there is literally nothing else i remember trebek posting so, uh, that's the Only Thing for me in their favor so far, but i feel like that's significant
> 
> 
> 
> but then list trebek as being somewhat suspicious not much later (in 722). wondering what your thought process is there
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> this was because i felt like that was the _only _thing that i felt okay about with trebek (vs ysabel who didn't have that Point In Favor). also tbh because when i was asked for suspicions i just looked at the list i posted earlier and picked out my Solid Neutrals and decided who i didn't like More.
> 
> 
> 
> Keldeo said:
> 
> 
> 
> Trebek and @Ysabel and @sanderidge, can you talk a little about your read on me after yesterday?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> i feel like i'm supposed to have something to say here but i don't :'D
> 
> 
> 
> Mist1422 said:
> 
> 
> 
> admittedly most of my hesitation on voting SJ was popularity-based, but reading over the UC wagon (primarily sande with the late vote but also slight concerns about trebek) I decided that it felt like he was being pushed by scum, and_ MP7 pushing sande made me feel better about that_
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> (emphasis mine) pls help what does the italicized part mean
> 
> 
> 
> Trebek said:
> 
> 
> 
> i mean, do we think that the mafia are scared enough of popularity to let the vote go to rand? or are you implying that every mafia member was voting UC
> 
> also, this flavor now seems to be a popularity raise. if that’s coming from the same role as the popularity lower from N0, then i feel better now about that role being town: having the mafia be able to raise their popularity seems a tad unbalanced, unless the role has to alternate?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> fwiw this kind of post is the sort of thing that sticks out in my memory so i no longer feel that suspicious about trebek, and ysabel doing ISOs seems like a good and Solving Things thing to be doing... which makes it worse for me that i didn't do a superjolt iso yesterday lmao. but now i am at a (rowlet emoji) sort of place because i don't think i'm... reading people right? i voted for town and the people i didn't feel great about yesterday i feel more okay about now so i think i am probably making Bad Assumptions or reads somewhere.
Click to expand...




kyeugh said:


> some thoughts about the popularity modifying role thing: there are a few possibilities kicking around in my head. maybe there are two roles and they alternate nights? or, in the case of them being a single role, maybe it alternates and its use is obligate? that would explain its n0 use. this isn’t useful i guess but it’s the only thought i have about this game rn





Trebek said:


> do we think we can derive anything from the fact that superjolt didn’t throw out a self defense vote? i don’t remember if he was active at eod but i imagine mafia chat would have been bugging him to vote UC?





Keldeo said:


> I think the logical guess is a mafia (or third party?) one-shot day vigilante. I'm thinking one-shot because a dayvig that can shoot every day is kind of OP with low numbers. If it was a town day vig, that would be... a little disappointing.





Keldeo said:


> Could point to me because she has a good read on me.





kyeugh said:


> i kind of think mp7 gets nightkilled in that case rather than blown up conspicuously in the middle of the day several hours in honestly. that’s a pretty small thing to use a terrorist charge on. my guess is that the mafia obtained information overnight that made them want to take mp7 out
> i kind of do not like the idea of suspecting someone who i feel has made pretty good and insightful posting because someone who shaded them a bit got ded





Bluwiikoon said:


> Dayvig could also be town, right? I'm not sure why a townie would vig MP7, unless they perceived something that I'm not perceiving.





Mist1422 said:


> we should be deciding on consensus targets for the song role tbh tbh





kyeugh said:


> it would suggest that tbh! i should probably let the snom out of the bag here, part of my role is that i can tell when i get rolecopped—and i did, n0! so this chain of events suggests to me that the rolecop is scum, mp7 got checked overnight, and a mafia daykiller shot her shortly afterwards because she had a power role of some kind that they wanted to suppress. (they left me alone because my role is kind of useless, i expect.)





Trebek said:


> given the small player base my gut is telling me that the second is more likely, regardless of if it’s town or maf


Fair enough, but don't forget somoene who already died could have had the role, plus Seshas mentioned roles that could interact with popularity, so I don't think it's impossible to have more than one role that interacts with popularity.


----------



## sanderidge

i posted an opinion and now i'm scared that i'm wrong lmfao. gonna go hide with fire emblem


----------



## mewtini

Ysabel said:


> Also again, what does hedging mean?


basically that you don't give any definite thoughts in either direction (usually to give yourself room to change/retcon it later)


----------



## mewtini

Seshas said:


> _Votecount (#944):_
> *sanderidge* | 1 | Mist1422 (#855)
> *Mist1422* | 1 | kyeugh (#878)
> *kyeugh* | 1 | mewtini (#933)


oh
*unvote*


----------



## Ys_

Fudge, I didn't mean to have so many quotes without thoughts. Seems like the draft wasn't saved, but fortunately I c/ped.
Ahh. Thanks, mewt. :)



Spoiler: Quotes with my thoughts






kyeugh said:


> some thoughts about the popularity modifying role thing: there are a few possibilities kicking around in my head. maybe there are two roles and they alternate nights? or, in the case of them being a single role, maybe it alternates and its use is obligate? that would explain its n0 use. this isn’t useful i guess but it’s the only thought i have about this game rn


Could be. That makes sense. I'm thinking about who would have given me the +popularizer and not someone who was upper in the trusted townies scale. But umm I'll leave that, at least for now.


Trebek said:


> do we think we can derive anything from the fact that superjolt didn’t throw out a self defense vote? i don’t remember if he was active at eod but i imagine mafia chat would have been bugging him to vote UC?


Yeah, makes sense. But a self-preservation vote could have come from both alignments. Maybe they were just less motivated/uninterested?


Keldeo said:


> I think the logical guess is a mafia (or third party?) one-shot day vigilante. I'm thinking one-shot because a dayvig that can shoot every day is kind of OP with low numbers. If it was a town day vig, that would be... a little disappointing.


Yeah. Also remember the rock was there since the beginning, but it only exploded toDay, and not even at the beginning, so if it was the result of a role, it may be an action that takes time to perform or is detonated by something specific. Maybe something MP said?


Keldeo said:


> Could point to me because she has a good read on me.


xD Yeah, that's a part of my super conspiracy theory. But like I said, it's 10%. 


Bluwiikoon said:


> Dayvig could also be town, right? I'm not sure why a townie would vig MP7, unless they perceived something that I'm not perceiving.


I kind of don't think so. I'm leaning more on third-party. Because if it _was _a townie dayvig they could have consulted about it with others, and a mafia with this power seems a bit OP?


Mist1422 said:


> we should be deciding on consensus targets for the song role tbh tbh


Do you mean who the person with the role should increase or decrease or who we think has the role? BC if it's the second one, I'm not too sure if it doesn't benefit mafia? As in, if the role is not mafia-aligned, it would give mafia an advantage to know who has that role.


kyeugh said:


> it would suggest that tbh! i should probably let the snom out of the bag here, part of my role is that i can tell when i get rolecopped—and i did, n0! so this chain of events suggests to me that the rolecop is scum, mp7 got checked overnight, and a mafia daykiller shot her shortly afterwards because she had a power role of some kind that they wanted to suppress. (they left me alone because my role is kind of useless, i expect.)


Hmmm ok. I'm not too good with these sort of theories, but again, why not kill MP at night then? And would it make sense for a mafia to have both killing roles?


Trebek said:


> given the small player base my gut is telling me that the second is more likely, regardless of if it’s town or maf


Yeah, ok, this is fair. Don't forget that the person with said role may already have died, though. And iirc Seshas did mention something about roles that interact with popularity, so it wouldn't be impossible to have more than one role that does this.


----------



## Trebek

i believe the other nonvoter was Blu btw

so now i’m like maybe my theory about non voters was moot lol


----------



## Ys_

Ysa: hi, it's me
SSClub: Mewt, Blu, Trebek (100% town)
Strong townread: Keldeo (90%)
townish read: Sanderidge (70-90%?)
neutral: Kyeugh, SJ (20%)
scumlean: Mist (5%)
Non-read: Julia

Sande fwiw I think you're doing ok :) making mistakes is part of the game


----------



## kyeugh

Ysabel said:


> Hmmm ok. I'm not too good with these sort of theories, but again, why not kill MP at night then?


 they wouldn’t kill mp7 at night in this case because the result of their role inspection wouldn’t return until the morning. if they found that she had some kind of threatening role, it would make sense for them to blow her up right away rather than waiting for the next night.


Ysabel said:


> And would it make sense for a mafia to have both killing roles?


 it would be a weird move for town to nuke mp7 and no one’s fessed  up to it anyway, so my assumption is that it was a mafia kill, at least.


----------



## Trebek

kyeugh said:


> it would be a weird move for town to nuke mp7 and no one’s fessed  up to it anyway, so my assumption is that it was a mafia kill, at least.


this is my vibe rn too, i was unsure earlier in the day but the radio silence makes me think mafia


----------



## Keldeo

sande and kyeugh, who do you think Mist’s team would be?


----------



## sanderidge

hmm, for mist's team...
-- i'm not really looking at me and skylar for hopefully obvious reasons lmao
-- i definitely don't think superjolt bc i don't see why mist would vote for sj last minute and cause a tie if that was their partner - that seems unnecessary and risky if they could've slid by without that vote 
-- i miiight have said mp7 before yesterday since they had a tiny interaction near the end of yesterDay but apparently not lmao. also that seems like it would have been a really obvious sort of interaction + mp7 flipped town, so maybe the idea is to look at people who mist hasn't interacted with at _all? _
-- mist mentions liking trebek's thoughts (699) (nice), says they're thinking keldeo is town (711). further back they also read mewt as town (167) but that's posted in a joking format that i don't know if they were serious about 
-- 720: they give a PoE of me, skylar, sj, julia, which mostly lines up with the people i'm not thinking about (unless they're distancing that way?) 

i can't say anything about julia/her slot based on lack of evidence, but also as far as i can tell just from skimming the iso mist doesn't _ever _interact with blu or mention them, except to answer the question about paranoid gun owner/traps? so _maybe _julia/blu/mist, but i also feel kind of nervous about that because i feel like calling julia/her slot scum is an easy out + i've been more  about blu than almost anyone else in the thread because everyone else is reading them town (except koko, who was reading blu the same way as me, and then flipped town)? so i might be wanting to read blu as scum + reading something out of nothing here. Biased Takes from Sande tm

i dunno, maybe the noninteraction with blu is something i'm just missing/something to do with times online/lack of blu content to respond to (i've barely interacted with blu too), but i'd go with julia/blu/mist


----------



## sanderidge

damn i think i get along a lot better with isos than with trying to read the whole thread. or maybe it's just that mist's iso is so short it's manageable. but i feel more productive when i'm looking at isos


----------



## sanderidge

i also don't think mist ever mentions ysabel, but i don't think they're on a possible team -- she reads mist as possibly scum (952) (although this is after saying a lot earlier (on d1 i think) on that she'd give mist the benefit of the doubt for now (362)). if they're on a team then they're distancing very differently which is maybe just playstyle but i'm also not reading ysabel as scummy or suspicious at all anymore (especially since now that i've read past page 20, her longer posts seem thoughtful and useful).


----------



## mewtini

sanderidge said:


> i've been more  about blu than almost anyone else in the thread because everyone else is reading them town (except koko, who was reading blu the same way as me, and then flipped town)? so i might be wanting to read blu as scum + reading something out of nothing here.


i'm kind of confused about how this translates to a blu scumread, unless i'm missing something

also idk if you've seen mp7/keldeo mention that that first ysabel post you mention could have been early distancing, but i think that that's a legitimate point (though i think ysabel is just town personally so i guess this is a moot point coming from me)


----------



## mewtini

oh lol you literally said it's confbias ig


----------



## sanderidge

mewtini said:


> sanderidge said:
> 
> 
> 
> i've been more  about blu than almost anyone else in the thread because everyone else is reading them town (except koko, who was reading blu the same way as me, and then flipped town)? so i might be wanting to read blu as scum + reading something out of nothing here.
> 
> 
> 
> i'm kind of confused about how this translates to a blu scumread, unless i'm missing something
> 
> also idk if you've seen mp7/keldeo mention that that first ysabel post you mention could have been early distancing, but i think that that's a legitimate point (though i think ysabel is just town personally so i guess this is a moot point coming from me)
Click to expand...

yep, that part i mostly meant to express that i felt like Mist Didn't Interact With Blu _isn't _a very strong reason to suspect blu and that i'm very possibly reading it that way _anyway _because i've been feeling more iffy about blu than others so far


----------



## mewtini

sanderidge said:


> i also don't think mist ever mentions ysabel, but i don't think they're on a possible team -- she reads mist as possibly scum (952) (although this is after saying a lot earlier (on d1 i think) on that she'd give mist the benefit of the doubt for now (362)). if they're on a team then they're distancing very differently which is maybe just playstyle but i'm also not reading ysabel as scummy or suspicious at all anymore (especially since now that i've read past page 20, her longer posts seem thoughtful and useful).


actually can you expand more on your progression on ysabel? idk if it's just me but i don't think my read has changed all that much on her from a posting perspective, and i'm also not really sure why you think that that interaction is incompatible with them being w/w (especially since ysabel voluntarily shelved the scumread)


----------



## Ys_

Ohhh. OK, I see what you're saying. So derp question but the mafia chat is always open then?! I assumed it wasn't.

Anyway. *Mist*


----------



## Zori

Ysabel said:


> Ohhh. OK, I see what you're saying. So derp question but the mafia chat is always open then?! I assumed it wasn't.
> 
> Anyway. *Mist*


In this game, the Mafia chat is open at all times.


----------



## sanderidge

Ysabel said:


> So derp question but the mafia chat is always open then?! I assumed it wasn't.


i'm suddenly doubting a billion things, like where did this come from,


----------



## sanderidge

mewtini said:


> actually can you expand more on your progression on ysabel? idk if it's just me but i don't think my read has changed all that much on her from a posting perspective, and i'm also not really sure why you think that that interaction is incompatible with them being w/w (especially since ysabel voluntarily shelved the scumread)


i don't know if i want to answer this until i get an answer to where ysabel's question came from because maybe i'm fuckign wrong about how i thought everything worked


----------



## Ys_

It came from me realizing that yeah, a role cop can investigate someone and then relay the information in scum chat. See, I was assuming that that the role cop and the bomber had to be the same person, otherwise how they would be so coordinated. And also because normally in my home forum it's closed during day.


----------



## mewtini

i think ysabel can be derpcleared now tbh


----------



## sanderidge

breathes quietly. okay that makes sense i think


----------



## Zori

_Votecount (#968):_
*Mist1422* | 2 | kyeugh (#878), Ysabel (#963)
sanderidge | 1 | Mist1422 (#855)



Spoiler: Vote History



*Mist1422 votes sanderidge [->1] (#855)
kyeugh votes Mist1422 [->1] (#878)*
mewtini votes kyeugh [->1] (#933)
_mewtini unvotes kyeugh [0->] (#949)_
*Ysabel votes Mist1422 [->2] (#963)*


----------



## Trebek

did skylar ever elaborate on her mist vote?


----------



## mewtini

i don't think she's been inthread for a while tbh


----------



## mewtini

mewtini said:


> i think ysabel can be derpcleared now tbh


huh, with this in mind, i wonder what it means for The Popularity Role?
also sande i am interested in your answer to the earlier thing whenever you get to it :0


----------



## sanderidge

i am about to nap but i should be able to get to it in a few hours!


----------



## Bluwiikoon

Oh god I thought day ended today again LOL

My alignment is Tired and Sleeby


----------



## Novae

ok i'm starting to get slightly frustrated because I'm feeling slightly ignored?

no one but keldeo has made an actual effort to interact with me, no one's talked with me about my scumreads, I'm just getting voted for...what exactly?


----------



## mewtini

Mist1422 said:


> ok i'm starting to get slightly frustrated because I'm feeling slightly ignored?
> 
> no one but keldeo has made an actual effort to interact with me, no one's talked with me about my scumreads, I'm just getting voted for...what exactly?


i am not voting you tbh and i'm not totally sure what's going on :p
i am interested in where you're at though, i forget if you replied when i pinged you earlier


----------



## Ys_

*Unvote*
Hi, Mist! Actually. Can you talk to me about your takes on MP7's reads? Since you agreed with her read on Sande but she was wrong about Koko?


----------



## Ys_

Also, yeah, sorry about that. I was trying out a test reaction.


Mist1422 said:


> night killer would most likely be a factional kill
> 
> I’m wondering if MP7 was a potential strong player kill and what that means for keldeo but it’s probably a silly theory


Can you please talk to me about this theory? 


Mist1422 said:


> we should be deciding on consensus targets for the song role tbh tbh


What do you mean by this?


----------



## Zori

_Votecount (#980):_
*Mist1422* | 1 | kyeugh (#878)
*sanderidge* | 1 | Mist1422 (#855)



Spoiler: Vote History



*Mist1422 votes sanderidge [->1] (#855)
kyeugh votes Mist1422 [->1] (#878)*
mewtini votes kyeugh [->1] (#933)
_mewtini unvotes kyeugh [0->] (#949)_
Ysabel votes Mist1422 [->2] (#963)
_Ysabel unvotes Mist1422 [1->] (#978)_



I stg no one ninja me this time to make the postnum incorrect


----------



## sanderidge

hello i am an awake! 


Ysabel said:


> It came from me realizing that yeah, a role cop can investigate someone and then relay the information in scum chat. See, I was assuming that that the role cop and the bomber had to be the same person, otherwise how they would be so coordinated. And also because normally in my home forum it's closed during day.


i basically panicked at this because i was like What If Ysabel Slipped And Meant To Post It In Mafia Chat Where She Found Out She Can Talk During The Day, Meaning Everything I Know And Think Is Wrong, but i think this explanation makes a lot more sense than that happening + seshas casually going "yeah it's open during the day". 



mewtini said:


> sanderidge said:
> 
> 
> 
> i also don't think mist ever mentions ysabel, but i don't think they're on a possible team -- she reads mist as possibly scum (952) (although this is after saying a lot earlier (on d1 i think) on that she'd give mist the benefit of the doubt for now (362)). if they're on a team then they're distancing very differently which is maybe just playstyle but i'm also not reading ysabel as scummy or suspicious at all anymore (especially since now that i've read past page 20, her longer posts seem thoughtful and useful).
> 
> 
> 
> actually can you expand more on your progression on ysabel? idk if it's just me but i don't think my read has changed all that much on her from a posting perspective, and i'm also not really sure why you think that that interaction is incompatible with them being w/w (especially since ysabel voluntarily shelved the scumread)
Click to expand...

part of it is that at eod i was running off "i just read the first 19 pages and barely remember the ones after it", so there were posts that i'd skimmed/only lightly read at eod that i feel better about on catch-up. the reason i listed her when i was asked for major/minor suspicions is that i read her earlier posts as being pushy + defensive/interrogative, but after reading more (mostly 601 and 737) i think i got used to the way she just normally talks, which basically erased the reason i was feeling iffy about her. 

i realize this is basically me saying "please accept that i did a really sudden really strong 180 on ysabel overnight based on like four posts" but that's what happened. maybe it's naive of me to say that, and i don't really expect people to go "yeah sande you're making sense", which is probably why saying that isn't a popular way to play the game. :p but that's where i'm at. 

presses f for myself because after i say literally anything i feel the urge to point out everything weak about it


----------



## Trebek

sanderidge said:


> presses f for myself because after i say literally anything i feel the urge to point out everything weak about it


literally me with everything

hmmm, theres 12 hours until EoD and like, nothing is happening woweek

someone smarter than me tell me what to do tbh


----------



## mewtini

Trebek said:


> someone smarter than me tell me what to do tbh


king forming a PoE is da wae


----------



## mewtini

also yes tbh i’m kind of here like ah fuck. what is going to happen at EoD


----------



## sanderidge

gonna actually vote for *mist *before i go to sleep. maybe this counts as a thing happening?!


----------



## Trebek

mewtini said:


> Trebek said:
> 
> 
> 
> someone smarter than me tell me what to do tbh
> 
> 
> 
> king forming a PoE is da wae
Click to expand...

but... i did... and idk what to do with it :(


----------



## mewtini

simply vote for the mafia tbh


----------



## mewtini

i say, having not voted

i kind of do not love either of the two wagons right now but it’s like 3:30 and i have to get up at 8:30 so i’ll have to figure this out eventually :v


----------



## mewtini

mewtini said:


> i say, having not voted
> 
> i kind of do not love either of the two wagons right now but it’s like 3:30 and i have to get up at 8:30 so i’ll have to figure this out *later :v


words,


----------



## Trebek

ok fine ill vote for the mafia

*trebek*


----------



## Trebek

but in all seriousness, i dont like the wagons and i dont like how theres still no elaboration on skylars vibe


----------



## Trebek

(*unvote* btw)


----------



## mewtini

i kind of am inclined to not read into skylar’s lack of elaboration yet seeing as she hasn’t been inthread since it was placed

(my guess is that it was a pressure vote and that it’s related to what she mentioned about thinking that mist’s sande push was weird)


----------



## mewtini

what do you not like about the wagons?


----------



## Trebek

idk, just like

not enough is _happening_ and im not confident enough to make decisions without having other people to cite lol


----------



## Trebek

and the fact that not enough is happening is reminding me of how we got confused by that in Cats and how that ended


----------



## Trebek

also, i just thought of something:

would the whole speculation of mafia having a night killer, a day killer, and a role investigator semi-clear julia if it turned out to be true, since we know that all of those roles have been active in the past 48-ish hours?


----------



## mewtini

yeah. but what’s wrong the wagons themselves? both mist and sande are in your PoE aren’t they


----------



## mewtini

Trebek said:


> and the fact that not enough is happening is reminding me of how we got confused by that in Cats and how that ended


what’re you referring to?


----------



## Trebek

mewtini said:


> yeah. but what’s wrong the wagons themselves? both mist and sande are in your PoE aren’t they


i guess its not necessarily that i dislike them objectively

im just getting bad vibes and i have 0 clue why



mewtini said:


> Trebek said:
> 
> 
> 
> and the fact that not enough is happening is reminding me of how we got confused by that in Cats and how that ended
> 
> 
> 
> what’re you referring to?
Click to expand...

i was having PTSD to the times where we had wagons and were like "hmmm this seems awfully stagnant" and then proceeded to self destruct


----------



## mewtini

on mobile/sleeptyping so too lazy to quote but are you thinking of the one (1) time we lynched mafia tbh :’)


----------



## Trebek

mewtini said:


> on mobile/sleeptyping so too lazy to quote but are you thinking of the one (1) time we lynched mafia tbh :’)


was sorta half thinking about that and half about the RNP yeet

im just mentally sabotaging myself at this point, esp bc now im wondering if theres a legitimate line of thinking that clears julia


----------



## mewtini

i guess i am just kind of confused because your PoE only had three people in it to begin with iirc, and now two of them are the wagons - so i’m trying to figure out where your awkward feelings are stemming from


----------



## Trebek

mewtini said:


> i guess i am just kind of confused because your PoE only had three people in it to begin with iirc, and now two of them are the wagons - so i’m trying to figure out where your awkward feelings are stemming from


theyre awkward because i dont know where they are stemming from :')

theoretically my PoE should be done and dusted but ill go and read posts and then they seem towny and then i get paranoid


----------



## Trebek

im just having issues vibing with the thread moving as slow as it is at the same time as vibing with the wagons possibly being mafia

the same thing happened in cats with a mafia wagon but that was with 6 mafia, i feel like they cant afford to do that in this game?


----------



## mewtini

mm. idrk what else to say tbh D:

looking at your read list again and still wondering why jolt isn’t at least in your PoE, i don’t think d1 wagonomics are a reason to clear anyone


----------



## Trebek

he's closer to my PoE than he was when i posted that list, we discussed that :o

and like i get that but at the same time i dont think d1 wagonomics should be disregarded as a reason, especially in this size game


----------



## mewtini

i agree that they shouldn’t be disregarded as a reason but that’s far from “i don’t vote on this person today” if you have towny feelings about sande/mist


----------



## Trebek

mewtini said:


> i agree that they shouldn’t be disregarded as a reason but that’s far from “i don’t vote on this person today” if you have towny feelings about sande/mist


this is why im paranoid tho

idk whether to trust my thread vibes or my mechanical vibes more


----------



## mewtini

sorry if i sound frustrated tbh. i just don’t really understand your thought process and if you weren’t townclear from me i think i’d have some ? feelings


----------



## mewtini

wagonomics != mech imo
also given the number of ~inactives in the thread (read: not many) i think if superjolt is mafia he’s bussable enough. so i don’t think that’s foolproof at all


----------



## Keldeo

Sorry, have been kind of preoccupied toDay. I'll try to address things and make a more thorough post before I sleep tonight. 

I want to say the mafia are contained within [Mist, sande, Superjolt, Julia, kyeugh] based on having a stronger reason to townread everyone else... I feel like Mist may not really have two teammates within this grouping, so I'm tempted to clear them and have the rest of this group be my POE, but I don't know if that's the best reason. 

rip at Superjolt not having been online since the phase started, either.



Trebek said:


> also, i just thought of something:
> 
> would the whole speculation of mafia having a night killer, a day killer, and a role investigator semi-clear julia if it turned out to be true, since we know that all of those roles have been active in the past 48-ish hours?


My assumption is the night kill is a factional ability and could be sent in by any member of the mafia. Also, sorry if I missed you explaining it somewhere, but what makes you think the role cop is mafia? (I think if a role cop exists I kinda agree, but I want to know what you're thinking there.)

I guess I like that you had this thought.


----------



## Trebek

mewtini said:


> wagonomics != mech imo


i just meant like, more on the mech side of the spectrum than pure vibes

like i know its not foolproof but i dont want to toss the idea because of that

idk i brought it up because i didnt understand my thought process myself, but i think im just more confused about it now than i was when i started lol

maybe more thread activity will happen by EoD which will help 



Keldeo said:


> My assumption is the night kill is a factional ability and could be sent in by any member of the mafia. Also, sorry if I missed you explaining it somewhere, but what makes you think the role cop is mafia? (I think if a role cop exists I kinda agree, but I want to know what you're thinking there.)


i mentioned that because it was a line of reasoning that skylar brought up earlier. it was less of a "i think theres a role cop mafia" and more of a "if there is, what are the ramifications?"


----------



## mewtini

trebek if EoD were right now where would you be voting?

also yeah i think the rolecop spec is from what skylar was talking about in re: her role letting her know when she got rcopped and the mp7 daykill.


----------



## Trebek

mewtini said:


> trebek if EoD were right now where would you be voting?


this is why im paranoid right now because with the thread where it is rn _i dont know_

and i cant help but wonder if thats signifying something


----------



## Trebek

sigh

ill think about this again after i sleep tbh


----------



## mewtini

fuck it *superjolt* for the time being
i said this earlier but i don’t want to vote outside of mist/sande/jolt since that seems to be the most sortable group, and julia’s slot seems like a cop out at this point. skylar is maybe a question mark but i think her semi-sudden push on mist could help sort this all out as well


----------



## mewtini

i guess it’s not even really a push but i don’t think skylar and mist are w/w? idk


----------



## Keldeo

*Vote Superjolt*


----------



## mewtini

btw i think skylar and jolt have w/w potential tbh


----------



## mewtini

mewtini said:


> btw i think skylar and jolt have w/w potential tbh


iirc she steered away a jolt lynch earlier though i’m on mobile and can’t crossref right now


----------



## mewtini

i don’t think it was actually all that aggressive of a turn, she just expressed not wanting to vote there, but it definitely wasn’t w/w incompatible at least (not as much as mist/sj anyway)


----------



## Keldeo

kyeugh said:


> mewtini said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> kyeugh said:
> 
> 
> 
> i prefer this wagon over superjolt’s at first glance.
> 
> 
> 
> why tbh?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> i just think superjolt feels fine, i guess. i’m not sure it’s a townlean but i’m also not really feeling all that inclined to see him lynched and i’m not sure i understand what pressing him would achieve. i don’t really care if other people vote there but it’s not really striking my interest.
Click to expand...

I kinda disagree on that point looking at the post in question, since this doesn't really do anything to either slow momentum on Superjolt or get kyeugh cred if Superjolt flips. Also thinking that Superjolt's shading kyeugh and questioning what people think of kyeugh is maybe less likely from a partner?


----------



## mewtini

that’s fair! i just didn’t think it was incompatible bc jolt kind of nullread skylar iirc? “she had strong town vibes in cats, they’re not quite as strong here” doesn’t read incredibly shady to me

this is kind of desperate spec because i’m not sure off the top of my head who else the flip could point to, admittedly ... zzz


----------



## mewtini

i guess maybe sande by the late EoD vote. but i kind of think that could go either way since they were still catching up


----------



## Bluwiikoon

If I have to choose someone right now it would probably be jolt :o I felt strange about how the voting history lined up with regards to him and confirmed green flips, in my last vote analysis post.

I feel like if jolt flips green, we at least have more stuff to analyse, and the POE is narrowed down more. I would also hope the explosion power has a cooldown, or maf would be able to take all of us out way too quickly >.<


----------



## Keldeo

Bluwiikoon said:


> If I have to choose someone right now it would probably be jolt :o I felt strange about how the voting history lined up with regards to him and confirmed green flips, in my last vote analysis post.
> 
> *I feel like if jolt flips green, we at least have more stuff to analyse,* and the POE is narrowed down more. I would also hope the explosion power has a cooldown, or maf would be able to take all of us out way too quickly >.<


What do you mean by this, where would you be thinking if Superjolt is town?


----------



## Bluwiikoon

Keldeo said:


> What do you mean by this, where would you be thinking if Superjolt is town?


I'd be looking at D1 vote history and toDay's vote history tbh


----------



## Keldeo

What specifically would you look at in the vote count? :O

--

Super quick thoughts on everyone. I'm sorry I couldn't do more today, I feel like I've barely processed a lot of posts.

Interestingly I think Julia might be a common denominator just because there's nothing really ruling her out from being teamed with anyone, which, hmm haha. I'm kind of worried that most teams I can come up with below my top 4 are somewhat questionable, but I really don't know who I'd move down, so it might just be that my mafia partner reading is not good. Or maybe like the dayvig is outgroup or something... 

mewtini: Very towny yesterday, proactive, prodding, etc. today.
Ysabel: Pretty good body of work, and I'm being credulous and trusting the derpclear tbh. 

Trebek: Mechanical speculation seems in-character, also whatever the secret club is.
Bluwiikoon: Good tone, secret club? Kokorico kill could point to him but night kill analysis is kind of lol. 

kyeugh: The role cop thing seems sort of weird to make up tbh. I think if she's mafia, that could have helped to distract from other reasons MP was killed, such as the sande read that Mist is pushing. ~not with Mist for wagoning them right now, ~not with Blu for the way she talked about his Trebek ISO yesterday (but I haven't looked at this closely). 
sanderidge: Just... generally reads fairly genuine and open to me, even though some of that genuineness is definitely about non-alignment things. Recent turn on Mist could be kind of opportunistic. ~not with Mist for reasons I've discussed. 
Mist1422: Mentioned some mechanical things that I don't think a mafia may have needed to, I guess? Kind of unclear progression onto Superjolt EOD1 actually - perhaps it is notable that they went for sande instead of Superjolt while seeming to theorize a sande/Superjolt team - but rereading their EOD1, I think they're not with Superjolt because if they were going to last-minute bus, they probably wouldn't have last-minute defended Superjolt minutes before. 

Julia: idk. Is it notable that no one's really targeted her? Defended by mewtini and me primarily yesterday, don't draw much from that. 
Superjolt: Lacking content etc. compared to in Cats... I still haven't looked that hard at the day 1 wagon movement, but on a general level it could indicate inactive or low-impact partners (e.g. Julia, possibly sande?) Not really sure what to do.


----------



## Zori

_Votecount (#1030):_
*Mist1422* | 2 | kyeugh (#878), sanderidge (#985)
*Superjolt* | 2 | mewtini (#1017), Keldeo (#1019)
sanderidge | 1 | Mist1422 (#855)



Spoiler: Vote History



*Mist1422 votes sanderidge [->1] (#855)
kyeugh votes Mist1422 [->1] (#878)*
mewtini votes kyeugh [->1] (#933)
mewtini unvotes kyeugh [0->] (#949)
Ysabel votes Mist1422 [->2] (#963)
_Ysabel unvotes Mist1422 [1->] (#978)_
*sanderidge votes Mist1422 [->2] (#985)*
Trebek votes Trebek [->1] (#990)
_Trebek unvotes Trebek [0->] (#992)_
*mewtini votes Superjolt [->1] (#1017)
Keldeo votes Superjolt [->2] (#1019)*


----------



## Ys_

Ok, so the vote on Mist was a reaction test on two things. One, if Mist was mafia, seeing two votes on Mist would maybe make their teammates question me on that vote. I didn't explain me so they could question me about it but that didn't happen. So yeah, I agree that Mist doesn't really seem to have other mafia buddies.

The other part was a reaction test for Sande but it didn't work out quite how I expected it to. I knew they were speculating about Mist and I being wolf buddies so I wanted to do something that would throw them off. Sande didn't react on that but rather on my comment. Which heh ^^'. The thing is that now, knowing that mafia chat is always open, I think someone could be trying to help Sande with their reads. And I' m not so sure about them anymore. A team between Sande and SJ is not impossible. But the reason I'm thinking about them being mafia is just bc not everyone can be town. Though.. Not doubting their reasons for leaving the thread, but the timing is a bit... opportune, maybe, and their explanation doesn't address the seeing me as a possible buddy with Mist?

Sande if you see this you can explain. It's not personal though, just so we're clear. ^^


----------



## Ys_

I didn't explain *it* so they could question me about it but that didn't happen.


----------



## sanderidge

tfw everyone's doing reaction test votes and you start getting the sinking feeling that Perhaps You Are Just Paranoid And Impulsive


----------



## sanderidge

Ysabel said:


> The other part was a reaction test for Sande but it didn't work out quite how I expected it to. I knew they were speculating about Mist and I being wolf buddies so I wanted to do something that would throw them off. Sande didn't react on that but rather on my comment. Which heh ^^'. The thing is that now, knowing that mafia chat is always open, I think someone could be trying to help Sande with their reads. And I' m not so sure about them anymore. A team between Sande and SJ is not impossible. But the reason I'm thinking about them being mafia is just bc not everyone can be town. Though.. Not doubting their reasons for leaving the thread, but the timing is a bit... opportune, maybe, and their explanation doesn't address the seeing me as a possible buddy with Mist?


i don't know if you read my post right, because i was mostly saying that i don't think it's possible that you and mist are w/w at all? so that's why my posts don't address seeing you as w/w with mist - because, uh, i'm saying that's what i think is Not happening. 
(also i do realize i take naps at weird times! but i generally am asleep somewhere between 4pm and 8:30pm for at least an hour and a half every day. but my sleep schedule is what it is :p ) 



Ysabel said:


> I didn't explain *it* so they could question me about it but that didn't happen.


i still don't know what this means, :'D, and i think you explaining would ruin the test you're trying to do? so i'm going to post this and read back and see if i can find what you're talking about


----------



## Ys_

Ah, I see. My bad, then. I thought maybe you were saying we may be w/w buddies trying to distance. Thanks for answering.

The thing is that maybe the mafia's going inactive, so that makes them even harder to read. What I meant with that line is that I purposefully left my vote unexplained to see if I could get any reaction from hypothetical scum buddies. But Mist's reaction seemed fair and like they were confused about what was happening. So the test may not be prove enough, but I just don't see them having any other possible teammates if they were mafia. Also for the PoE reasons you mentioned.


----------



## sanderidge

that makes sense! i was about to post responding to/assuming that *it *was the part where you talked about rolecop and bomber being coordinated 

i'm wondering if i should unvote bc it seems like a lot of people don't think that it's possible for mist to have a team/any teams don't seem likely, which means that it's less likely that mist is mafia, right? i do think the people i listed as mist's team are kind of far-fetched but i also don't have anyone else i'm really suspecting right now? so i don't know what to do


----------



## mewtini

honestly i see what keldeo is talking about wrt julia being an easy common denominator tbh, it's just kind of a feelsbad to actually vote there


----------



## mewtini

mewtini said:


> honestly [..] tbh


----------



## Keldeo

Follow your heart sande! Partner reads aren’t law, do you think there are some that could be wrong? 


mewtini said:


> honestly i see what keldeo is talking about wrt julia being an easy common denominator tbh, it's just kind of a feelsbad to actually vote there


Is it more of a feelsbad than voting the other person who hasn’t been able to post today? (I get what you mean tbh.)

Can you talk to me about possible teams that you see?


----------



## Ys_

You don't have to unvote if that's how you feel, yeah. I myself see a possible team of Skylar and Superjolt. I see what Keldeo is saying with his reads but I don't rule out a possible Skylar/SJ team. Possibly the third member is Julia. Or even Keldeo himself? Hmm. Not ruling it out :P but not too important atm. 

*Superjolt*

Skylar is my second choice.


----------



## mewtini

i guess i just feel better about voting "person with possibly weird d1 posting" versus "person who is 99.99% inactive whose initial posting made me go ;;" and if we got lucky and julia flipped red i kind of don't know where i'd look next 



Keldeo said:


> Can you talk to me about possible teams that you see?


i don't really see mist with ... anybody really, and if we use their logic on sande's EoD vote then it's at least possible that sande/jolt are w/w. but if i go with that, idrk who fits in between; i'd be FoSing trebek if i didn't have some level of faith in the secret club (which i think should maybe be made un-secret tomorrow, possibly depending on how today goes?) because i keep feeling weird about how he talks about superjolt and then going "wait but he's cleared." i also think skylar could fit in there by virtue of not having interactions with jolt that rule them out as a pair, and she's soft-defended sande ... i don't know if that's all that compatible with her bussing strat in tvtropes though, but that's weak


----------



## mewtini

or we just go with every possible w/w pair and throw julia in the middle of it and call it a day. lol ...


----------



## Keldeo

Yeah I mean sande/Jolt fits neatly, sande just reads pure to me ahaha. Similarly Mist doesn’t fit neatly on teams to me... but I don’t feel strongly about their posting today. I just have a visceral reaction to the possibility of bussing today because no matter who they are, the mafia team could... probably win without doing so? 

I think a mass claim should happen at MYLO/LYLO and probably not before. Ideally everyone in the POE would go and then you can explain the secret club I guess.

Also MYLO/LYLO are supposed to be announced so if that doesn’t happen at typical MYLO numbers, I think that indicates outgroup or third party (idk what is meant by “mafia parity”)


----------



## Keldeo

Actually I think there being an outgroup or third party is maybe a silly idea given how many misyeets the mafia team would need in that case.

Galaxy brain: this game was advertised as shenanigans and therefore is 9:2:2 unannounced multiball, that’s why there even exists a +3 on the popularity scale at all


----------



## mewtini

Keldeo said:


> I think a mass claim should happen at MYLO/LYLO and probably not before. Ideally everyone in the POE would go and then you can explain the secret club I guess.


yeah. i was thinking about the possibility of MyLo coming tomorrow :(


Keldeo said:


> Yeah I mean sande/Jolt fits neatly, sande just reads pure to me ahaha.


to be fair i think sande could fit with kind of anybody except for mist


Keldeo said:


> I think that indicates outgroup or third party


don't say the o-word please tbh
hmm. would that make sense in a game this size? >:o and considering that mafia wincon should be tied to town numbers specifically that would be ... weird, right


Keldeo said:


> Galaxy brain: this game was advertised as shenanigans and therefore is 9:2:2 unannounced multiball, that’s why there even exists a +3 on the popularity scale at all


i have no idea what this sentence means tbh but i'm scared of it


----------



## Keldeo

Sorry, I’m sorry, I’m trying to remove it

The multiball thing means there would be two separate mafia teams, each with their own separate kill and two members. It’s a joke because with a popularity-affecting role in play, you wouldn’t need to actually vote out 3 mafia to get to +3 popularity.


----------



## Keldeo

To be clear, the most likely case is that there are 3 mafia and the game is “normal”, I’m just spitballing about 1% worlds, haha.


----------



## Zori

Keldeo said:


> Also MYLO/LYLO are supposed to be announced so if that doesn’t happen at typical MYLO numbers, I think that indicates outgroup or third party (idk what is meant by “mafia parity”)


Mafia Parity, in this case, means that only Mafia counts towards the scum in a MyLo/LyLo situation, so as not to spew to Mafia the existence of potential third parties.


----------



## Zori

_Votecount (#1049):_
*Superjolt* | 3 | mewtini (#1017), Keldeo (#1019), Ysabel (#1040)
Mist1422 | 2 | kyeugh (#878), sanderidge (#985)
sanderidge | 1 | Mist1422 (#855)



Spoiler: Vote History



*Mist1422 votes sanderidge [->1] (#855)
kyeugh votes Mist1422 [->1] (#878)*
mewtini votes kyeugh [->1] (#933)
mewtini unvotes kyeugh [0->] (#949)
Ysabel votes Mist1422 [->2] (#963)
Ysabel unvotes Mist1422 [1->] (#978)
*sanderidge votes Mist1422 [->2] (#985)*
Trebek votes Trebek [->1] (#990)
_Trebek unvotes Trebek [0->] (#992)_
*mewtini votes Superjolt [->1] (#1017)
Keldeo votes Superjolt [->2] (#1019)
Ysabel votes Superjolt [->3] (#1040)*


----------



## Trebek

mewtini said:


> i'd be FoSing trebek if i didn't have some level of faith in the secret club (which i think should maybe be made un-secret tomorrow, possibly depending on how today goes?) because i keep feeling weird about how he talks about superjolt and then going "wait but he's cleared."


i know this is nitpicky and not relevant to EoD but... i’m not saying that? i’m sort of confused as to why this has been mentioned more than once after there was a whole interaction that ended with me going “ok i see what you mean about superjolt and i’m not townreading them as much as i was before”


----------



## mewtini

"wait but he's cleared" is me about you


----------



## Novae

Ysabel said:


> *Unvote*
> Hi, Mist! Actually. Can you talk to me about your takes on MP7's reads? Since you agreed with her read on Sande but she was wrong about Koko?





Ysabel said:


> Also, yeah, sorry about that. I was trying out a test reaction.
> 
> 
> Mist1422 said:
> 
> 
> 
> night killer would most likely be a factional kill
> 
> I’m wondering if MP7 was a potential strong player kill and what that means for keldeo but it’s probably a silly theory
> 
> 
> 
> Can you please talk to me about this theory?
> 
> 
> Mist1422 said:
> 
> 
> 
> we should be deciding on consensus targets for the song role tbh tbh
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> What do you mean by this?
Click to expand...

I'll answer these shortly tbh!


----------



## Trebek

mewtini said:


> "wait but he's cleared" is me about you


oh, oops :p


----------



## Novae

meanwhile have a song about actual cat mafia


----------



## mewtini

Trebek said:


> mewtini said:
> 
> 
> 
> "wait but he's cleared" is me about you
> 
> 
> 
> oh, oops :p
Click to expand...

basically in the world where you aren't clear: from my pov you're either latching on really hard onto wagonomics fsr or you're just avoiding the vote, and i can't really tell if you just super strongly believe in d1 wagon movement being _that _alignment-indicative (especially when the person in question hasn't had particularly towny posting) or if it's the second, because you openly admit that you're townreading the other people in your PoE right now

i'll feel really stupid for making a big deal out of this if jolt just flips green but


----------



## Trebek

for the record, i’m not avoiding the vote, i just want to see mist’s answers first


----------



## Trebek

i think that i’m just getting frustrated that like

i’ve openly said that i’m not latching onto wagononics anymore because we’ve talked about this before

and it’s still a point of discussion fsr


----------



## Keldeo

Hey sande, can you remind me of why you feel good about me and kyeugh?


----------



## mewtini

i'll stop after this but the reason that i'm confused is that you've still said that jolt is a townlean and not in the PoE for ... some reason? it is also harder to grasp because you haven't been giving many reads or talking that much about the roster at large, i'm not really sure what i was supposed to be following

the first sentence is a bit different if you're waiting for mist, ig, but votes are noncommittal and i think pushing superjolt is a good move overall seeing as he's on the board. i also think it's weird that i'm the only person bothered by this, but that might also be that i'm kind of >:/ that this is coming from a townclear


----------



## Trebek

and honestly i think i’d also be feeling pinged if i wasn’t also clearing you so i’m just gonna try and not think about it


----------



## Trebek

like i get where you’re coming from with this but, coming from the point of view of me wanting to believe that wagononics means something, it’s felt a lot like i’m being pressured just because my reads are different?


----------



## mewtini

if i were a wolf what would i be hoping to accomplish by saying "can you elaborate more on why your PoE, with people you call towny, doesn't include your next-lowest townread" when it's come up before that you haven't given much insight on your progression on a lot of people


Trebek said:


> like i get where you’re coming from with this but, coming from the point of view of me wanting to believe that wagononics means something, it’s felt a lot like i’m being pressured just because my reads are different?


because wagonomics are kind of flimsy and easy wolf rationale tbh. it's not purely that your reads are different, it's that i don't get your progression


----------



## mewtini

mewtini said:


> with people you call towny *and are unwilling to vote for


----------



## Trebek

pending mist’s responses,

*superjolt*


----------



## sanderidge

Keldeo said:


> Follow your heart sande! Partner reads aren’t law, do you think there are some that could be wrong?


re: mist i think both of my partner reads are really shaky - at this point i kind of feel like me @ blu was me building something out of nothing, and @ julia was just taking the easy way out and picking the person who could've been paired with anyone. so i don't... really have partner reads at this point? unless i start looking harder at people that i do feel really good about (you, mewt, etc). 



Keldeo said:


> Hey sande, can you remind me of why you feel good about me and kyeugh?


i feel good about you because you were making solvy posts and asking questions that seemed productive (like asking about teams, asking why people are thinking what they're thinking, and offering reads/opinions on a lot of people) and you've been doing this for a while? i guess that's kind of shaky/me putting a lot of stock in people who seem like they know what they're doing. 
i feel good about skylar because she's been dismantling the possible clear on her for having her popularity lowered, because i feel like mafia would just go "yeah this makes me cleared for almost-sure!", especially if the mafia _did _choose to target one of their own for towncred.


----------



## Keldeo

Trebek said:


> pending mist’s responses,
> 
> *superjolt*


*unvote Superjolt*

Wagon formation tbh


----------



## Trebek

i’m sorry if my vote threw off the numbers  but idk how else to emphasize that i’m not townleaning jolt as much as i was when i made my initial read list, which is what i’ve been trying to say for a while now


----------



## sanderidge

i wonder if this game is just going to have really quiet eod...


----------



## mewtini

mist come back pls


----------



## Keldeo

Trebek said:


> i’m sorry if my vote threw off the numbers  but idk how else to emphasize that i’m not townleaning jolt as much as i was when i made my initial read list, which is what i’ve been trying to say for a while now


Haha it’s not you, I’m just allergic to gaps between the wagons of more than 2


----------



## Novae

Okay so

I actually wasn’t paying that close attention to MP7’s reads but she did have the same take on sande at the same time as me so I was using it as a sort of validation of my own reads

I think MP7 and Keldeo (and maybe mewtini) are the more recognizably strong players here so I was questioning for a little bit if it was a kill to remove one of those players, why MP7 over Keldeo

and I think we as a town should decide on whose popularity to lower/raise via the singer because we don’t know their alignment


----------



## Novae

mewtini said:


> mist come back pls


i got dragged away to do chores then instantly got combod into having lunch I’m here now


----------



## mewtini

Mist1422 said:


> I was questioning for a little bit if it was a kill to remove one of those players, why MP7 over Keldeo


did you see skylar's theory about the rolecop thing? that seems to make the most sense to me so far tbh


----------



## Novae

mewtini said:


> Mist1422 said:
> 
> 
> 
> I was questioning for a little bit if it was a kill to remove one of those players, why MP7 over Keldeo
> 
> 
> 
> did you see skylar's theory about the rolecop thing? that seems to make the most sense to me so far tbh
Click to expand...

I did tbh and it does make sense

I’m just not sure if it means anything


----------



## Keldeo

Who do you think the kill being on MP7 implicates, then, Mist? Me, someone else?


----------



## Novae

Keldeo said:


> Who do you think the kill being on MP7 implicates, then, Mist? Me, someone else?


sande but only slightly and it’s more of “now I know MP7 was not jumping on something awkward from town!sande”


----------



## Keldeo

Oh yeah, I think the singer should lower the counterwagon’s popularity if this is a ML (in that case the singer effect probably no longer matters, because we’re likely going into MYLO, but possibly we get lucky overnight). If the yeet hits mafia today, idk, lower Julia, I think she fits with both?

If the singer can raise tonight I think they could raise someone they think is town but probably not NKed. Maybe Blu for the latter, force mafia to remove a claimed VT if the singer is town and they want to forestall the effects.


----------



## mewtini

@Mist1422 i'd be interested in your thoughts on my 836


----------



## Keldeo

I am also uh not on MP’s level in many respects but thank you for describing me as strong lol


----------



## Keldeo

Must, what are your thoughts on kyeugh and Blu?


----------



## mewtini

Keldeo said:


> I am also uh not on MP’s level in many respects but thank you for describing me as strong lol


omg ... king. are you really surprised to be referred to as 'strong' tbh


----------



## Novae

mewtini said:


> @Mist1422 i'd be interested in your thoughts on my 836


my thoughts are a nod and a "cool" approximately tbh I don't really have anything to add


Keldeo said:


> I am also uh not on MP’s level in many respects but thank you for describing me as strong lol


look there's a reason you made it to champs finals last year


Keldeo said:


> Must, what are your thoughts on kyeugh and Blu?


no thoughts head empty tbh


----------



## Keldeo

Mist1422 said:


> Keldeo said:
> 
> 
> 
> Must, what are your thoughts on kyeugh and Blu?
> 
> 
> 
> no thoughts head empty tbh
Click to expand...

Okay, do you have time now to read either of them and tell me what you think? I'm particularly interested in your read on kyeugh's push on you.

I have no real grounding on your reads outside of "sande/Superjolt w/w" so I'm not entirely sure what you were expecting people to engage you on?


----------



## mewtini

Mist1422 said:


> my thoughts are a nod and a "cool" approximately tbh I don't really have anything to add


i guess i was maybe ambiguous. i brought it up because of the sande/jolt ordering, since mp7's push on them came late and she didn't even move votes


----------



## mewtini

mewtini said:


> them


(sande)


----------



## Novae

Keldeo said:


> Mist1422 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Keldeo said:
> 
> 
> 
> Must, what are your thoughts on kyeugh and Blu?
> 
> 
> 
> no thoughts head empty tbh
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Okay, do you have time now to read either of them and tell me what you think? I'm particularly interested in your read on kyeugh's push on you.
> 
> I have no real grounding on your reads outside of "sande/Superjolt w/w" so I'm not entirely sure what you were expecting people to engage you on?
Click to expand...

how dare you imply that my complaints could have potentially been my fault


----------



## Novae

to be entirely honest

most people's posts have been just going like in one ear out the other for me

I barely remember anything from kyeugh/blu/trebek slots and haven't been really able to get a read on ysabel


----------



## mewtini

i'll echo keldeo in asking you about skylar's push on you?


----------



## Zori

_Votecount (#1088):_
*Superjolt* | 3 | mewtini (#1017), Ysabel (#1040), Trebek (#1064)
Mist1422 | 2 | kyeugh (#878), sanderidge (#985)
sanderidge | 1 | Mist1422 (#855)



Spoiler: Vote History



*Mist1422 votes sanderidge [->1] (#855)
kyeugh votes Mist1422 [->1] (#878)*
mewtini votes kyeugh [->1] (#933)
mewtini unvotes kyeugh [0->] (#949)
Ysabel votes Mist1422 [->2] (#963)
Ysabel unvotes Mist1422 [1->] (#978)
*sanderidge votes Mist1422 [->2] (#985)*
Trebek votes Trebek [->1] (#990)
Trebek unvotes Trebek [0->] (#992)
*mewtini votes Superjolt [->1] (#1017)*
Keldeo votes Superjolt [->2] (#1019)
*Ysabel votes Superjolt [->3] (#1040)
Trebek votes Superjolt [->4] (#1064)*
_Keldeo unvotes Superjolt [3->] (#1066)_



1 more post until the magic number!
~20 minutes left in day.


----------



## mewtini

Seshas said:


> Votecount (#1088):


F


----------



## Zori

Seshas said:


> 1 more post until the magic number!
> ~20 minutes left in day.


at least I claimed it tbh


----------



## Novae

magic number?


----------



## Novae

mewtini said:


> i'll echo keldeo in asking you about skylar's push on you?


I mean

I asked her about it she never answered

so I'm kinda waiting on that


----------



## Zori

Mist1422 said:


> magic number?


1089 = 33^2
1089 * 9 = 9801
1/1089 = 0.00 09 18 27 36 45 54 ...


----------



## mewtini

15 minutes left.,


----------



## Keldeo

Mist1422 said:


> mewtini said:
> 
> 
> 
> i'll echo keldeo in asking you about skylar's push on you?
> 
> 
> 
> I mean
> 
> I asked her about it she never answered
> 
> so I'm kinda waiting on that
Click to expand...

Do you make anything of the fact that it happened? I'm guessing you have not been able to extract anything from her earlier posting?


----------



## sanderidge

rolls around feebly


----------



## Keldeo

sanderidge said:


> rolls around feebly


Sometimes, during times like this, I like to lay down and pretend I'm a starfish.


----------



## Keldeo

Can you tell me more about where your head's at, sande?


----------



## Novae

Keldeo said:


> Mist1422 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> mewtini said:
> 
> 
> 
> i'll echo keldeo in asking you about skylar's push on you?
> 
> 
> 
> I mean
> 
> I asked her about it she never answered
> 
> so I'm kinda waiting on that
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Do you make anything of the fact that it happened? I'm guessing you have not been able to extract anything from her earlier posting?
Click to expand...

I am multitasking rn so I didn't skim her earlier posting but she posted like twice since I asked her so I assume she'll see these posts and answer tomorrow

(right @kyeugh)


----------



## mewtini

lol i kind of don't know what to make of mistposting tbh but i think we all decided they were unlikely to be mafia? and idk who would be bussing them or something right now ... neither of the voters make sense


----------



## mewtini

@Trebek thoughts tbh?


----------



## Keldeo

mewtini said:


> lol i kind of don't know what to make of mistposting tbh but i think we all decided they were unlikely to be mafia? and idk who would be bussing them or something right now ... neither of the voters make sense


Eh I guess Mist could be mafia if their team is like Julia and (someone weird like Blu or something), or the mafia team is more bussy than I'd think... I agree with you that it seems kind of unlikely, idk.


----------



## Ys_

Welp gl hf


----------



## Keldeo

mewt, do you have an argument against Mist/Skylar and Mist/sande mafia partners that's deeper than "pushed for each other"?


----------



## Keldeo

Ysabel said:


> Welp gl hf


Any last-minute thoughts? :O


----------



## Ys_

Last thing. If Blu is a dolphin and Trebek is an alien then I'm a dragon :P


----------



## mewtini

mist/skylar is not impossible at all considering how bussy skylar was in tropes
mist/sande seems weird for reasons (EoD interactions) you outlined? and if jolt is mafia then i think mist/sande can't be w/w


----------



## mewtini

mewtini said:


> mist/skylar is not impossible at all considering how bussy skylar was in tropes


i find it maybe less likely just because i don't think skylar is wolf but the interaction itself doesn't totally rule out w/w ig


----------



## Trebek

mewtini said:


> @Trebek thoughts tbh?


finding it hard to come up with meaningful thoughts rn tbh but i’m fine keeping my vote where it is for now *le shrug


----------



## mewtini

i guess we'll know soon enough. rip trebek talking after mist came back


----------



## mewtini

Trebek said:


> finding it hard to come up with meaningful thoughts rn tbh but i’m fine keeping my vote where it is for now *le shrug


weren't you waiting for mist to come back/talk to decide?


----------



## Keldeo

mewtini said:


> if jolt is mafia then i think mist/sande can't be w/w


If Jolt is mafia I don't think Mist is mafia period, tbh



Spoiler



inb4 Ysabel is a delayed terrorist who is going to die at EOD for having killed MP

inb4 Superjolt comes in with the last minute vote snipe


----------



## Ys_

Well tbh I just don't see a world where Skylar and SJ aren't on the same team, + if Skylar and Mist were buddies it would be very risky to leave a vote and then not reappear again


----------



## sanderidge

i hate having opinions that is where my head is at


----------



## Trebek

mewtini said:


> Trebek said:
> 
> 
> 
> finding it hard to come up with meaningful thoughts rn tbh but i’m fine keeping my vote where it is for now *le shrug
> 
> 
> 
> weren't you waiting for mist to come back/talk to decide?
Click to expand...

yeah i was waiting for mist to come back to vote jolt :p


----------



## mewtini

Keldeo said:


> If Jolt is mafia I don't think Mist is mafia period, tbh


100% agree


----------



## Zori

*----------------Day has ended.----------------*​


----------



## Keldeo

Sorry if you're town, Superjolt :(


----------



## mewtini

Trebek said:


> yeah i was waiting for mist to come back to vote jolt :p


wait what tbh?


----------



## mewtini

Keldeo said:


> Sorry if you're town, Superjolt :(


keldeo i love that song ...


----------



## Zori

_Final Votecount (#1121):_
*Superjolt* | 3 | mewtini (#1017), Ysabel (#1040), Trebek (#1064)
Mist1422 | 2 | kyeugh (#878), sanderidge (#985)
sanderidge | 1 | Mist1422 (#855)



Spoiler: Vote History



*Mist1422 votes sanderidge [->1] (#855)
kyeugh votes Mist1422 [->1] (#878)*
mewtini votes kyeugh [->1] (#933)
mewtini unvotes kyeugh [0->] (#949)
Ysabel votes Mist1422 [->2] (#963)
Ysabel unvotes Mist1422 [1->] (#978)
*sanderidge votes Mist1422 [->2] (#985)*
Trebek votes Trebek [->1] (#990)
Trebek unvotes Trebek [0->] (#992)
*mewtini votes Superjolt [->1] (#1017)*
Keldeo votes Superjolt [->2] (#1019)
*Ysabel votes Superjolt [->3] (#1040)
Trebek votes Superjolt [->4] (#1064)*
_Keldeo unvotes Superjolt [3->] (#1066)_



Flip in ~15 minutes, same deal as last time
glgl


----------



## Trebek

mewtini said:


> Trebek said:
> 
> 
> 
> yeah i was waiting for mist to come back to vote jolt :p
> 
> 
> 
> wait what tbh?
Click to expand...

i was between the two of them and wanted to see how i vibed with mist posting bc i felt weird about the votes on mist


----------



## Zori

*Moderator Message: shush*


----------



## Zori

The Snoms circled around to decide who to stab this day, and how to get rid of the Zorua infestation problem.

A voice came out from the crowd of Snoms: "Remember when we flipped that coin to decide who would die? I think that was a bad idea. We should have just killed them both." Murmurs of assent spread among the crowd.

Superjolt started defending themselves with wagonomics, but it was too little, and too late.

...

As the crowd gathered around, one of them opened the top of his guitar (??? how can Snoms play a guitar? Must be mafia D:).
It was stuffed with shady business cards.

Superjolt's unconscious form flickered and reverted to to their true appearance.

*Superjolt has died. They were a Zorua.

Night 2 Begins. It will end in 23.75 hours.*​


Spoiler: Pings



@JuliaTheSeaTurtleQueen
@Mist1422
@Bluwiikoon
@sanderidge
@Superjolt
@kyeugh
@Ysabel
@Keldeo
@mewtini
@Trebek





Spoiler: Game Summary



*N0

D1*
Mr. Ultracool has died. They were a *Snom*.

*N1*
kokorico has died. E was a *Snom*.

*D2*
M Plus 7 has died. She was a *Snom*.
Superjolt has died. They were a *Zorua*.


----------



## IndigoClaudia

Flavor text time:

uhh what seshas said


----------



## IndigoClaudia

Apologies for being late, i had an opoinment i almost forgot about :3

NOW GO TO SLEEP!


----------



## Zori

Night results going out


----------



## IndigoClaudia

Flavor text coming soon :3


----------



## Zori

[Look for Emmy's flavor tbh]

*Keldeo has died. They were a Snom.
kyeugh has died. They were a Snom.

Day 3 Begins. It will end in 48 hours.*​


Spoiler: Pings



@JuliaTheSeaTurtleQueen
@Mist1422
@Bluwiikoon
@sanderidge
@kyeugh
@Ysabel
@Keldeo
@mewtini
@Trebek





Spoiler: Game Summary



*N0

D1*
Mr. Ultracool has died. They were a *Snom*.

*N1*
kokorico has died. E was a *Snom*.

*D2*
M Plus 7 has died. She was a *Snom*.
Superjolt has died. They were a *Zorua*.

*N2*
Keldeo has died. They were a *Snom*.
kyeugh has died. They were a *Snom*.


----------



## IndigoClaudia

Well... another morning. The silence of the town is almost eerie.

The rock... is not there! It's nowhere! In the rush, certain snoms even look for it because they think it feels a little familiar. It's weird that it's now been cleaned up.

And the music!? No new songs. Only the old songs faintly play in the background, but people are so used to them by now, they really don't think much of it.

It's an eerie day, perfect for deciding who to stabby.





Spoiler: Pings



@JuliaTheSeaTurtleQueen
@Mist1422
@Bluwiikoon
@sanderidge
@Superjolt
@kyeugh
@Ysabel
@Keldeo
@mewtini
@Trebek





Spoiler: Game Summary



*N0

D1*
Mr. Ultracool has died. They were a *Snom*.

*N1*
kokorico has died. E was a *Snom*.

*D2*
M Plus 7 has died. She was a *Snom*.
Superjolt has died. They were a *Zorua*.


----------



## mewtini

happy bday king kel ;______;


----------



## mewtini

also wtf two deaths? ... oneshot vig?


----------



## IndigoClaudia

Spoiler: Game Summary



*N0

D1*
Mr. Ultracool has died. They were a *Snom*.

*N1*
kokorico has died. E was a *Snom*.

*D2*
M Plus 7 has died. She was a *Snom*.
Superjolt has died. They were a *Zorua*.

*N2*
Keldeo died. *Snom.*


[/QUOTE]


----------



## sanderidge

the rock and the music are gone...........


----------



## IndigoClaudia

IndigoEmmy said:


> The silence of the town is almost eerie.


----------



## mewtini

mfw rock music dies


----------



## IndigoClaudia

I'd go so far to say actually eerie.


----------



## Novae

Music was hinted at to have been Jolt’s role

which means it’s Somewhat unfortunate that kyeugh died


----------



## Zori

*To be clear, regarding discrepancies: Kyeugh and Keldeo have both died. There are 7 (I think) players alive.*


----------



## mewtini

IndigoEmmy said:


> The rock... is not there!


either from keldeo or skylar then?


----------



## Trebek

IndigoEmmy said:


> I'd go so far to say actually eerie.


#eerie impulse


----------



## sanderidge

you think......


----------



## sanderidge

can snoms learn eerie impulse / can zorua learn eerie impulse


----------



## Trebek

i think it’s 7 people?

me, mewt, blu, ysabel, julia, mist, sande?


----------



## Novae

remove mewtini/Ysabel/trebek from the wagon

Sande/blu
Sande/Julia
Julia/blu

will look at D1 wagons soon


----------



## sanderidge

lmao never mind it's an electric-type move that neither of them can learn. i thought it was going to be a zorua thing


----------



## IndigoClaudia

sanderidge said:


> can snoms learn eerie impulse / can zorua learn eerie impulse


Uhh snoms cant lemme check zorua


----------



## Novae

Seshas said:


> *Mr. Ultracool* | 4 | Keldeo (#574), Trebek (#584), kokorico (#644), sanderidge (#706)
> *Superjolt* | 4 | Ysabel (#362), M Plus 7 (#570), mewtini (#575), Mist1422 (#724)


----------



## IndigoClaudia

IndigoEmmy said:


> sanderidge said:
> 
> 
> 
> can snoms learn eerie impulse / can zorua learn eerie impulse
> 
> 
> 
> Uhh snoms cant lemme check zorua
Click to expand...

No they can't


----------



## Trebek

i’m also removing blu from the wagon btw so i’m looking at 

mist/julia
julia/sande
sande/mist


----------



## Novae

clears seem easy

simple VCA says trebek does not look great out of the three


----------



## Trebek

hmmm, is it too early in the game to pressure for claims? if 2 deaths happen again tomorrow night we could be at MyLo


----------



## Novae

Trebek said:


> i’m also removing blu from the wagon btw so i’m looking at
> 
> mist/julia
> julia/sande
> sande/mist


I’m locktown tbh

only mostly joking


----------



## mewtini

Mist1422 said:


> remove mewtini/Ysabel/trebek from the wagon


maybe missing something/not sure on where you were reading all of us at the end of yesterDay, are we just your TRs? or ...


----------



## mewtini

Trebek said:


> hmmm, is it too early in the game to pressure for claims? if 2 deaths happen again tomorrow night we could be at MyLo


i think the rock might've been the vig item tbh

snom 4x weakness to rock vibes


----------



## Novae

mewtini said:


> Mist1422 said:
> 
> 
> 
> remove mewtini/Ysabel/trebek from the wagon
> 
> 
> 
> maybe missing something/not sure on where you were reading all of us at the end of yesterDay, are we just your TRs? or ...
Click to expand...

You were just the people on-wagon, was considering whether bussing was likely or no


----------



## Trebek

mewt, do you think that asking for claims could be beneficial considering [redacted]? idk if u get what i mean but


----------



## Novae

*Sanderidge*

sticking with the w/w read glgl


----------



## IndigoClaudia

I'm going to roleclaim.

I am the GM. Everynight, i collect people's role info and make relevant flavor text. I am not aligned with town or mafia. I win when the game is complete and everyone had fun.


----------



## sanderidge

love 2 see it...


----------



## mewtini

Trebek said:


> hmmm, is it too early in the game to pressure for claims? if 2 deaths happen again tomorrow night we could be at MyLo


i am pretty sure 2 deaths won't happen again but i think we're looking at like
2w/5v alive right now, if we mislynch we go into d4 with 2w/3v so that is still,


----------



## Trebek

mewtini said:


> Trebek said:
> 
> 
> 
> hmmm, is it too early in the game to pressure for claims? if 2 deaths happen again tomorrow night we could be at MyLo
> 
> 
> 
> i am pretty sure 2 deaths won't happen again but i think we're looking at like
> 2w/5v alive right now, if we mislynch we go into d4 with 2w/3v so that is still,
Click to expand...

yeah, we probably won’t be MyLo tomorrow, but i guess i’m just thinking that it’s not outside the realm of possibility


----------



## mewtini

Trebek said:


> mewt, do you think that asking for claims could be beneficial considering [redacted]? idk if u get what i mean but


um, tbh maybe


----------



## Trebek

looking at my PoE, i’ll vibe on *sande *for now


----------



## mewtini

Trebek said:


> yeah, we probably won’t be MyLo tomorrow, but i guess i’m just thinking that it’s not outside the realm of possibility


2w/3v is MyLo isn't it
if town has no more killing power now that vig is down


----------



## Trebek

mewtini said:


> Trebek said:
> 
> 
> 
> yeah, we probably won’t be MyLo tomorrow, but i guess i’m just thinking that it’s not outside the realm of possibility
> 
> 
> 
> 2w/3v is MyLo isn't it
> if town has no more killing power now that vig is down
Click to expand...

oh wait, did we conclude that the rock was a one shot? i might have missed some posts lemme reread


----------



## Zori

_Votecount (#1168):_
*sanderidge* | 2 | Mist1422 (#1159), Trebek (#1165)



Spoiler: Vote History



*Mist1422 votes sanderidge [->1] (#1159)
Trebek votes sanderidge [->2] (#1165)*


----------



## mewtini

Trebek said:


> oh wait, did we conclude that the rock was a one shot? i might have missed some posts lemme reread


if vig is multishot then there should've been more deaths before toNight i think?


----------



## Trebek

hmm, and my best guess is that mp7 was the musician? bc wouldn’t keld/skylar be able to submit an action last night before they died


----------



## mewtini

Trebek said:


> hmm, and my best guess is that mp7 was the musician?


wasn't this flavor on jolt


----------



## Trebek

mewtini said:


> Trebek said:
> 
> 
> 
> oh wait, did we conclude that the rock was a one shot? i might have missed some posts lemme reread
> 
> 
> 
> if vig is multishot then there should've been more deaths before toNight i think?
Click to expand...

fair, yeah

or maybe one of keldeo/skylar was like a revenge killer or something

but yeah i think i agree that town doesn’t have killing power anymore


----------



## Trebek

mewtini said:


> Trebek said:
> 
> 
> 
> hmm, and my best guess is that mp7 was the musician?
> 
> 
> 
> wasn't this flavor on jolt
Click to expand...

not gonna lie, i never actually connected the dots between the guitar case and the songs lel


----------



## Bluwiikoon

My fellow Snomthren!! I have a confession!

Late last night, I was visited by messengers of the Snods (snom gods). They had countless eyes, countless wings, and overall were too ethereal for a mere snortal (snom mortal) to comprehend.

I passed out for a while from sheer psychic damage, but the divine messengers had given me a _sniper rifle!_ WITH one bullet! Their many voices echoed in my feeble snmind (snom mind): _Choose wisely..._

Unfortunately, I am not a wise Snom.


----------



## Trebek

most likely was jolt then lmao

oh maybe mp7 was able to submit a kill after she died


----------



## Trebek

well i got ninjad there

rip blu :(


----------



## mewtini

hey, @Mist1422 something that is kind of bothering me: at the end of cats you said something about provided fakeclaims being a thing on MU? could those include actual rolecards? i'll explain later :'D


----------



## Trebek

ngl snods and snortals is the funniest thing i’ve read all game


----------



## sanderidge

presses f for blu.....


----------



## Bluwiikoon

Sorry kyeugh :(


----------



## mewtini

Bluwiikoon said:


> Sorry kyeugh :(


who will stand tall among us now?!


----------



## Bluwiikoon

Someone has to rise up!!


----------



## Novae

mewtini said:


> hey, @Mist1422 something that is kind of bothering me: at the end of cats you said something about provided fakeclaims being a thing on MU? could those include actual rolecards? i'll explain later :'D


Potentially yes

lemme see if I can find an example


----------



## Novae

this isn’t a heavily flavored game though so I doubt it would apply here


----------



## Bluwiikoon

My next Thought in my PoE was gonna be sande and or Julia, since I feel like the voting history kind of clears Mist a little. Will have to double check because sponge brain, but I swear Mist was the vote who made it Rand on D1 despite ultracool being the leading wagon (with the other wagon being Superjolt, an wolf)


----------



## Trebek

Bluwiikoon said:


> My fellow Snomthren!! I have a confession!
> 
> Late last night, I was visited by messengers of the Snods (snom gods). They had countless eyes, countless wings, and overall were too ethereal for a mere snortal (snom mortal) to comprehend.
> 
> I passed out for a while from sheer psychic damage, but the divine messengers had given me a _sniper rifle!_ WITH one bullet! Their many voices echoed in my feeble snmind (snom mind): _Choose wisely..._
> 
> Unfortunately, I am not a wise Snom.


quick clarifying question here: were the snomessengers from another player/Snod, or was this intrinsic to your own role?


----------



## mewtini

Bluwiikoon said:


> My next Thought in my PoE was gonna be sande and or Julia, since I feel like the voting history kind of clears Mist a little. Will have to double check because sponge brain, but I swear Mist was the vote who made it Rand on D1 despite ultracool being the leading wagon (with the other wagon being Superjolt, an wolf)


i think mist looks pretty good yeah. fwiw i am sort of here like ... wondering if julia is the 'safe' lynch since if we fuck up it goes to MyLo i think, if mafia wins at parity (i forget) due to the common denominator theory

everything happens so much lmfao


----------



## mewtini

was the weird thing with sande that EoD vote? was there anything else


----------



## Bluwiikoon

Trebek said:


> Bluwiikoon said:
> 
> 
> 
> My fellow Snomthren!! I have a confession!
> 
> Late last night, I was visited by messengers of the Snods (snom gods). They had countless eyes, countless wings, and overall were too ethereal for a mere snortal (snom mortal) to comprehend.
> 
> I passed out for a while from sheer psychic damage, but the divine messengers had given me a _sniper rifle!_ WITH one bullet! Their many voices echoed in my feeble snmind (snom mind): _Choose wisely..._
> 
> Unfortunately, I am not a wise Snom.
> 
> 
> 
> quick clarifying question here: were the snomessengers from another player/Snod, or was this intrinsic to your own role?
Click to expand...

Flavor aside, it was the game mods!  They didn't tell me why I was given a one-shot vig


----------



## Trebek

mewtini said:


> was the weird thing with sande that EoD vote? was there anything else


i think mp7 had sande vibes before her untimely demise? will have to go and reread


----------



## mewtini

Trebek said:


> mewtini said:
> 
> 
> 
> was the weird thing with sande that EoD vote? was there anything else
> 
> 
> 
> i think mp7 had sande vibes before her untimely demise? will have to go and reread
Click to expand...

yeah
but i think it was the vote


----------



## Bluwiikoon

Oh god I'm late to my shower

We got this snuddies (snom buddies)!!! Hydrate!


----------



## Trebek

Bluwiikoon said:


> Trebek said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Bluwiikoon said:
> 
> 
> 
> My fellow Snomthren!! I have a confession!
> 
> Late last night, I was visited by messengers of the Snods (snom gods). They had countless eyes, countless wings, and overall were too ethereal for a mere snortal (snom mortal) to comprehend.
> 
> I passed out for a while from sheer psychic damage, but the divine messengers had given me a _sniper rifle!_ WITH one bullet! Their many voices echoed in my feeble snmind (snom mind): _Choose wisely..._
> 
> Unfortunately, I am not a wise Snom.
> 
> 
> 
> quick clarifying question here: were the snomessengers from another player/Snod, or was this intrinsic to your own role?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Flavor aside, it was the game mods!  They didn't tell me why I was given a one-shot vig
Click to expand...

honestly, my hot take here is that mp7 was the Snom God with the power to bestow a vig shot post-ascension


----------



## Trebek

mewtini said:


> Trebek said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> mewtini said:
> 
> 
> 
> was the weird thing with sande that EoD vote? was there anything else
> 
> 
> 
> i think mp7 had sande vibes before her untimely demise? will have to go and reread
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> yeah
> but i think it was the vote
Click to expand...

ooooooh ok cool


----------



## Novae

I could not find an example

how much later is later mewt I’m impatient


----------



## Zori

Bluwiikoon said:


> Flavor aside, it was the game mods!  They didn't tell me why I was given a one-shot vig


*For the record, try not to directly mention communication with the game moderators*


----------



## mewtini

Mist1422 said:


> I could not find an example
> 
> how much later is later mewt I’m impatient


@Trebek @Bluwiikoon (@Ysabel) club reveal?


----------



## Novae

oh god gunsmith in a seshas game I am having flashbacks


----------



## Trebek

mewtini said:


> Mist1422 said:
> 
> 
> 
> I could not find an example
> 
> how much later is later mewt I’m impatient
> 
> 
> 
> @Trebek @Bluwiikoon (@Ysabel) club reveal?
Click to expand...

i would be interested in holding onto the club secrets until after some claims? but i’m flexible


----------



## Trebek

Mist1422 said:


> oh god gunsmith in a seshas game I am having flashbacks


oh no what does this mean i’m scawed


----------



## Novae

Trebek said:


> Mist1422 said:
> 
> 
> 
> oh god gunsmith in a seshas game I am having flashbacks
> 
> 
> 
> oh no what does this mean i’m scawed
Click to expand...

it’s

a long story


----------



## Trebek

_oh_


----------



## Novae

Mist1422 said:


> Trebek said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mist1422 said:
> 
> 
> 
> oh god gunsmith in a seshas game I am having flashbacks
> 
> 
> 
> oh no what does this mean i’m scawed
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> it’s
> 
> a long story
Click to expand...

to the point where my explanation would probably qualify as fanfic


----------



## mewtini

Trebek said:


> i would be interested in holding onto the club secrets until after some claims? but i’m flexible


idk
there's only one person outside of the club lol. julia's not really here


----------



## sanderidge

me, sitting outside of the club: :'D


----------



## Novae

Anyway Blu at what time did you receive the sniper rifle

SoD2 or EoD2?


----------



## Trebek

mewtini said:


> Trebek said:
> 
> 
> 
> i would be interested in holding onto the club secrets until after some claims? but i’m flexible
> 
> 
> 
> idk
> there's only one person outside of the club lol. julia's not really here
Click to expand...

yeah, i was just debating if we want to have sande and/or mist claim

50/50 on that tho


----------



## mewtini

sanderidge said:


> me, sitting outside of the club: :'D


oh yeah i forgot about sande. sande/mist/julia


----------



## Novae

Mist1422 said:


> Mist1422 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Trebek said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mist1422 said:
> 
> 
> 
> oh god gunsmith in a seshas game I am having flashbacks
> 
> 
> 
> oh no what does this mean i’m scawed
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> it’s
> 
> a long story
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> to the point where my explanation would probably qualify as fanfic
Click to expand...

(if anyone wants I’ll write this out once I’m on a computer)


----------



## Trebek

Mist1422 said:


> Mist1422 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mist1422 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Trebek said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mist1422 said:
> 
> 
> 
> oh god gunsmith in a seshas game I am having flashbacks
> 
> 
> 
> oh no what does this mean i’m scawed
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> it’s
> 
> a long story
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> to the point where my explanation would probably qualify as fanfic
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> (if anyone wants I’ll write this out once I’m on a computer)
Click to expand...

gib lore plz


----------



## Novae

will do

anyway I’m down to claim


----------



## sanderidge

same here


----------



## Trebek

uwu


----------



## Novae

I assume the likes are you guys saying I should claim yes


----------



## Trebek

my messages are taking a while to send bc poor signal so i might get ninjad here but, ye id say claim


----------



## Novae

ok that’s a yes

I am! (drumroll please)


----------



## Novae

Ditto, 3p alien—wait no

vanilla snomie tbh


----------



## Novae

imagine having a night action tbh


----------



## sanderidge

sits quietly. should i also claim


----------



## Novae

I would say yes tbh


----------



## sanderidge

i am, first and foremost, a dumbass
second i am a naive cop who gets red checks on anyone with negative popularity
i checked keldeo n0, ysabel n1, and mist last night 
i have not gotten any red results lmfao so 
i don't think i'm very likely to I Die Now but i wouldn't be surprised if i did


----------



## sanderidge

HAHAHAHA PAGETOP lol k i'm gone


----------



## Trebek

mist, does anything seem odd to you or jump out at you if you look at my early ISO from the start of D1?


----------



## Novae

acknowledged

is it worldbuilding time? maybe it is tbh


----------



## Novae

Trebek said:


> mist, does anything seem odd to you or jump out at you if you look at my early ISO from the start of D1?


Oh

is this why mewtini was asking me about full rolecards

This feels slightly angleshooty tbh


----------



## sanderidge

what does worldbuilding time mean...


----------



## Novae

sanderidge said:


> what does worldbuilding time mean...


(:


----------



## Trebek

what does angleshooty mean in this context?


----------



## Bluwiikoon

Mist1422 said:


> Anyway Blu at what time did you receive the sniper rifle
> 
> SoD2 or EoD2?


During night two!


----------



## Novae

Trebek said:


> what does angleshooty mean in this context?


using things that aren’t explicitly disallowed but not intended to be allowed


----------



## Bluwiikoon

I am now Showered!

Please envision a snom towel burrito


----------



## mewtini

Mist1422 said:


> Trebek said:
> 
> 
> 
> what does angleshooty mean in this context?
> 
> 
> 
> using things that aren’t explicitly disallowed but not intended to be allowed
Click to expand...

i'm asking because for most of the Night i was like. trying to figure out where the third wolf actually is and don't want the mutual clear to fuck it up a la cats 2019


----------



## Bluwiikoon

I'm worried that the wolves could potentially have figured out our Secret Club, considering nightkills thus far have been folks who have not actively claimed to be in the club. :(


----------



## Bluwiikoon

Taking Keldeo out makes sense in a meta perspective because he is very active and asks a lot of questions, but also, Worry


----------



## Trebek

Bluwiikoon said:


> I'm worried that the wolves could potentially have figured out our Secret Club, considering nightkills thus far have been folks who have not actively claimed to be in the club. :(


this was my concern :(


----------



## Novae

Did koko claim anything nightkill-worthy in the chat?


----------



## mewtini

Bluwiikoon said:


> I'm worried that the wolves could potentially have figured out our Secret Club, considering nightkills thus far have been folks who have not actively claimed to be in the club. :(


that is why i thought about it :/ i have some other kind of paranoia thoughts that i think i'll sit on for a bit longer but. fear
if it isn't actually likely then i guess we can just vibe but i remembered mist bringing it up in cats and figured they were from seshas' meta


----------



## Novae

mewtini
Ysabel
sanderidge
Julia
Trebek
Blu

Ysabel/sande
sande/mewt
sande/Trebek
sande/Blu
mewt/Julia
mewt/Trebek
mewt/Blu
Julia/Trebek
Julia/Blu
Trebek/Blu

All theoretical possibilities


----------



## Novae

mewtini said:


> if it isn't actually likely then i guess we can just vibe but i remembered mist bringing it up in cats and figured they were from seshas' meta


What’s this in reference to?


----------



## Novae

*unvote* for now


----------



## mewtini

Mist1422 said:


> mewtini said:
> 
> 
> 
> if it isn't actually likely then i guess we can just vibe but i remembered mist bringing it up in cats and figured they were from seshas' meta
> 
> 
> 
> What’s this in reference to?
Click to expand...

the provided fakeclaim idea (x)


----------



## mewtini

mewtini said:


> figured they were from seshas' meta


- so it could apply here more than the tcodf meta (where i'd never heard of a provided claim before, lol)


----------



## Novae

I would never put stock into an angleshoot in a seshas game tbh


----------



## Bluwiikoon

Gathered up some things I noticed on a brief D1 kokorico-centric skim, if someone else wants to analyse things Superjolt said, I think that would be handy  Bear with me, mobile, etc etc


----------



## Bluwiikoon

kokorico said:


> Keldeo said:
> 
> 
> 
> @kokorico, could you give updated reads on me and Blu?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Keldeo said:
> 
> 
> 
> I would like to see eir updated thoughts on me/Blu.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Steady on! I do need to sleep from time to time :P
> 
> Regarding you, I concede I probably jumped to my conclusion a bit too quickly, out of excitability / wanting to demonstrate my read / feeling like 48h was shorter than it is, and on reflection you were probably right to find it odd. Sorry about that. But so far you still haven't actually displayed the "combativeness" I mentioned towards anyone other than me, or done anything else that pings me as scummy, and you've been engaging with the game, trying to figure things out and presenting your thoughts in real time. So I still consider you to be at the top of my town pile.
> 
> Blu, I'm wavering back and forth on. His bubbliness certainly isn't pinging me as particularly town-indicative, as it seems to be for almost anyone else, and I have the impression that he pivoted into mechanical talk much sooner in Cats (2019) than he is here. But equally, I can't really pin down anything solid that indicates scumplay. I also spotted a couple of things that, if he's town, might be a part of an attempt to set up a gambit for later - I'll avoid spoiling that. I would still dearly love to know what his reasoning was for asking the question in #121: both mewt and I have now asked him on separate occasions, but unless I missed it I don't think he ever responded.
> 
> (I know some other people asked me things overnight too, but I gotta go eat something. I promise to come back to them later.)
Click to expand...

Underlined part is interesting - we didn't establish The Club properly until D2, so perhaps maf saw this and got frightened 



Keldeo said:


> sande, if you can't read everything, maybe you could ISO Superjolt and tell me what you think? Or give your thoughts on the early part of the thread?
> 
> @Bluwiikoon just curious, when you were writing your ISO on Trebek, did you already have in mind everything that you pointed out, or did you come up with it as you were reading? Is there anything that gives you hesitation on him?
> 
> --
> 
> Pulling up Superjolt posts:
> 
> 
> 
> Superjolt said:
> 
> 
> 
> Looking at koko - I still think the keldeo read was a little quick because that keldeo post doesn’t seem like it could be outside his scum meta but I’m also not sure if scum!koko would go for such a quick read? I feel like Koko sounded kind of unsure of eirself in eir posts last game as scum (at least from what I remember, or maybe that was in the early game?) but sounds pretty confident this time around. Kind of unsure here though, I also didn’t really follow the read on blu
> 
> Also speaking of koko and questions for me: (no quote sorry but it was in 244) I’m kind of against it for reasons others said and also similar to mewtini I like seeing how votes/ wagons come together and looking at those later @kokorico
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Superjolt said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler
> 
> 
> 
> Bluwiikoon - mentioned already that I get the same kind of pure Vibes as last game and this hasn’t changed (though Blu did feel a little more solvey on D1 in Cats I thought)
> 
> Mist - no opinion here, guess they never came in to give those Takes(tm)
> 
> sanderidge - I kind of want to say sande feels pure on tone (kind of similar to Blu but also maybe less so and with an asterisk that she does have more experience... if this makes sense? maybe need to revisit later)
> 
> kyeugh - kind of gave thoughts above already
> 
> kokorico - gave thoughts here too, still unsure here
> 
> Ysabel - seems alright so far? Her reads felt genuine at least. I did skim tho so maybe need to check over again
> 
> Keldeo - feels good so far and I don’t think I’ve had a problem with any of the questions he’s asked. I will note that I kind of felt the same way in Cats about him early on though. I also don’t support the wagon he’s started! On a serious note though not entirely sure how I feel about his vote on me, I think it would have been stronger if he had coupled it with more than just getting me to contribute, which I would have done anyway even without a vote (unless there’s actually more to it and I’m already forgetting)
> 
> mewtini- Getting similar vibes to last game where she was town so I think town
> 
> Trebek- thought he seemed ok early on but not sure now, he was tough to read last game
> 
> 404 not found - Julia, Mr ultracool , m+7
> 
> hmm this feels like too many unsures/nulls... but this is where I’m at
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Superjolt said:
> 
> 
> 
> Liiiight townlean for now on Emmy for #114 because I like that she asked this question in the middle of all the sillyposting, I think trying to spark serious discussion when things are mostly Not Serious looks good. I like mewtini based on tone so far, same goes for Blu and I like the excitement from Blu, so townleans there. Also kind of like Herbe who sounds legit excited to have rolled town. And if we're hypoclaiming, then Herbe is defintiely a *lean green townie machine!* Not sure about Seshas, kind of want to keep an eye there going forward maybe?
> 
> Quite a lack of voting so far, wish there were some votes being tossed around because it would help with vibes/reads (or at least for me!)
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Superjolt said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler
> 
> 
> 
> Up to page 18 and I see that Keldeo kind of has the same thoughts/reads that I had (esp. on mewtini and Blu, and later others have similar thoughts as well so I'm glad I'm not the only one there. I like mewtini more as I go as she seems to get more solvey (also thanks to mewtini for pointing out pages/posts to me!)
> 
> Seshas is someone I really want to reread/ISO
> 
> I feel like I should have some opinion on kyeugh at this point but I kind of don't so she's maybe worth a reread too? I do see more posts from her coming up after Keldeo's vote so maybe that will help out a bit
> 
> Also want to reread rari posts
> 
> Keldeo seems okay for now. I do like that he voted to get people talking (and for the record I do agree with Keldeo that it's never too early to vote!). I'm good with him being town for now.
> 
> ILS seemed to get town reads for flavor spec for some reason, and then even pointed out himself that it's not something that should warrant a town read but he doesn't really do anything else? Like, I feel like that should have been paired with something else like "you're right that me flavor spec'ing doesn't mean anything, now let me actually Do Things!" but he really doesn't do anything else, and the next time he posts is in reaction to Keldeo's vote on Trebek I think? I'm pretty tired now so idk if this makes sense. Part of me wonders if this may not be a bad place to vote?
> 
> I feel like I've got a handful of town, and then a _ton_ of nulls but like not really any scum reads at this point so I feel like I'm missing something
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Meh yeah I guess Superjolt was more confident or existent early in Cats. There's a decent gap in depth between the reads he gave here and, say, his read on ILS in this last post I quote.
> 
> I think the towniest thing Superjolt has done is maybe his question on Skylar because like... hmm... I guess it indicates that he was thinking "Skylar seems less towny than last time, what do people think of her?" here, but didn't talk about it until later. Background thought process.
> 
> 
> 
> Superjolt said:
> 
> 
> 
> While I’m here and thinking about it: where are people’s heads at on skylar rn? Just to see thoughts on this when I read up
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Also, I'm on koko town right now, and mafia Superjolt _probably_ could jump on koko instead of hedging out of an initial bad impression in that first post.
Click to expand...

(Underlined section) Hmm



kokorico said:


> Keldeo said:
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks! I have a bunch of questions for you:
> 
> Are these ordered within tiers?
> 
> 
> 
> Nominally, yes, I tried to order them. But especially in the Grey Area (tm), it's honestly pretty arbitrary. For, uh, obvious reasons.
> 
> 
> 
> Keldeo said:
> 
> 
> 
> Who were the "several people" who pushed back on the Trebek read, iirc it was mostly me? Do you have any read on his recent real-time posting with MP7?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I think mewt and MP7 both made the same point? Don't quote me on that - I didn't note down the posts where it happened and it's not the sort of thing that's very easy to search for.
> 
> By the real-time posting, do you mean the stuff on page 25? (I wasn't there when it happened so I didn't realise it was real-time.) If so, I'm not really getting anything out of it at all, either when I initially read it or now I look over it again. There are only a few posts and the only thing that seems vaguely AI from either of them is the fact that M+7 was trying to establish a read on him at all. Am I missing something?
> 
> 
> 
> Keldeo said:
> 
> 
> 
> Could I ask you to go a bit more in depth about your sande and Superjolt feels?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Sure. My sanderidge thoughts haven't really changed much since what I said earlier, that she didn't react as if w/w with Bluwiikoon and had made a couple of towny posts. Slightly later on, she presented a slightly disorganised list of reads that lined up pretty well with my own, even though I hadn't talked about all of them in-thread yet. That made me feel a little more confident both in them and in her. But I don't have anything I would consider strong evidence either way yet.
> 
> Superjolt is probably the most scum-looking person at the moment, but that could also plausibly just be a lack of time/experience/interest. For example, he popped in very briefly at the start of the Day when it seemed like he might be coming under the microscope for inactivity, but didn't stick around for long. More recently, his reads list was really very thin on information and most people's entries boiled down to "idk". I was also a little bemused when, in response to my question about his opinion on the representatives idea, he cited mewtini's argument against it - but she didn't make that argument until _after_ I asked the question!
> 
> (will continue from here in the next post because this is getting long and I want to get the above out there so you have a chance to read it with less EoD time pressure)
Click to expand...

Koko seems like e was very vocally suspicious of Superjolt, which would be Bad if Koko lived past N1 I guess 

Anyway, that's uhhhh some thoughts on why Koko got shanked N1? I wonder if they were a secret club member too


----------



## Bluwiikoon

Me: I would like to activate my brain!

Shower!brain: hehe words go brrrt


----------



## Bluwiikoon

I see kyeugh is online, and would like her to know that if town loses because I misfired, she's welcome to galactic punt my feeble snom body like an exceptionally buoyant soccer ball.


----------



## Bluwiikoon

Noooo you guuuys the sad reacts ;o;

I promise that came from a place of jest, and not a sad brain juice place! ^^ I'm doing good today


----------



## Ys_

Rip Skylar. Seems like my logic was flawed, but, um. I was practically convinced that if she had been town she would have voted for SJ for sure. Unless she knew something we didn't...?

On the secret club thing, I'm thinking I'm down with whichever. Is there a point in keeping it hidden anymore?


----------



## Ys_

~~Also, I'm the third mafia tbh~~


----------



## sanderidge

Ysabel said:


> ~~Also, I'm the third mafia tbh~~


i know you are joking but the Big reason that you saying "i didn't know the mafia chat was open during the day!" the other day made me panic was because i thought "what if i get red checks on all negative popularity _and green checks on all positive popularity_" 
TO BE CLEAR i don't actually think that's what's going on w my checks but this reminded me of that


----------



## Ys_

sanderidge said:


> i am, first and foremost, a dumbass
> second i am a naive cop who gets red checks on anyone with negative popularity
> i checked keldeo n0, ysabel n1, and mist last night
> i have not gotten any red results lmfao so
> i don't think i'm very likely to I Die Now but i wouldn't be surprised if i did


So you never checked Skylar?


----------



## Ys_

Can you please tell me your reasoning of those specific targets?


----------



## sanderidge

i never checked skylar because every night i checked the person i felt most suspicious about, which is why i did a wild 180 on you overnight and also why i'm sitting here like :l today because i feel like i have nothing to go off of 

n0 i checked keldeo because that was the night i felt like i could get clearest results / no popularity shenanigans and i'm scared of keldeo lmao


----------



## sanderidge

sanderidge said:


> i never checked skylar because every night **other than n0 *i checked the person i felt most suspicious about, which is why i did a wild 180 on you overnight and also why i'm sitting here like :l today because i feel like i have nothing to go off of
> 
> n0 i checked keldeo because that was the night i felt like i could get clearest results / no popularity shenanigans and i'm scared of keldeo lmao


correction in bold


----------



## Ys_

That's fair. But why do you think you're a naive cop?
So do you think one of your checks was wrong?
Also, did you have any thoughts on Skylar's claim about knowing when she got role copped?

@Mist any thoughts on Skylar's vote on you?

@everyone I'm thinking MP7 was the person handing out guns and that was the reason they were killed. Could balance a mafia day killer.


----------



## sanderidge

Ysabel said:


> That's fair. But why do you think you're a naive cop?
> So do you think one of your checks was wrong?
> Also, did you have any thoughts on Skylar's claim about knowing when she got role copped?


because... my role pm said so? :'D it specifically called me a naive cop and said that i would get red checks on anyone with negative popularity. it didn't say anything about positive popularity causing green checks but i think that is a kind of bastard mechanic to put in and not say anything about? which is why i stopped panicking some time after you explained things re: mafia chat is open during the day, the other day.
and before i sent in my actions i checked the votes that people were on, and unless there were nighttime popularity shenanigans i'm not aware of/i didn't see something, no one should have had _negative _popularity when i checked them. so i don't think any of my checks were wrong barring Very Bastard Mechanics that i wasn't told about or nighttime silent popularity changes, if there is such a role 

re: skylar claiming she knows when she was rolecopped, iirc she also brought up a line of reasoning that keldeo agreed with for rolecop to be scum, so maybe that's why no one's claimed it :p but that's the only thought in my head. she could have also tossed out a wild lie to... draw someone out...??? idk? but iirc that was a really early point in the game and i don't think people usually claim that early? so i don't really think that's too plausible of a take.

i'm gonna post this and then go hunt down the quotes i'm thinking of


----------



## Zori

*Apologies for being late to you guys on this
As rolecards do contain some degree of flavor, Mafia have been supplied example Power Role and Vanilla Townie rolecards.
This is so that they aren't outed off discrepencies in rolecard formatting.
I was cautious about because something similar happened in another game I hosted and someone almost had to get modkilled for it.

It likely won't affect the course of the game much, but I thought that since it's rare here, I wanted to let you know.

Continue.*


----------



## sanderidge

i hav found the quotes i was looking for 



Spoiler: skylar first mentions being rolecopped #869






kyeugh said:


> Trebek said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> kyeugh said:
> 
> 
> 
> i kind of think mp7 gets nightkilled in that case rather than blown up conspicuously in the middle of the day several hours in honestly. that’s a pretty small thing to use a terrorist charge on. my guess is that the mafia obtained information overnight that made them want to take mp7 out
> i kind of do not like the idea of suspecting someone who i feel has made pretty good and insightful posting because someone who shaded them a bit got ded
> 
> 
> 
> this would imply that the mafia have a night killer, a day killer, and an investigator? or would some of those roles overlap? bc that might affect wether or not we think the popularity dude is town or maf
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> it would suggest that tbh! i should probably let the snom out of the bag here, part of my role is that i can tell when i get rolecopped—and i did, n0! so this chain of events suggests to me that the rolecop is scum, mp7 got checked overnight, and a mafia daykiller shot her shortly afterwards because she had a power role of some kind that they wanted to suppress. (they left me alone because my role is kind of useless, i expect.)
Click to expand...







Spoiler: skylar mentions scum!rolecop again #953






kyeugh said:


> Ysabel said:
> 
> 
> 
> Hmmm ok. I'm not too good with these sort of theories, but again, why not kill MP at night then?
> 
> 
> 
> they wouldn’t kill mp7 at night in this case because the result of their role inspection wouldn’t return until the morning. if they found that she had some kind of threatening role, it would make sense for them to blow her up right away rather than waiting for the next night.
> 
> 
> Ysabel said:
> 
> 
> 
> And would it make sense for a mafia to have both killing roles?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> it would be a weird move for town to nuke mp7 and no one’s fessed  up to it anyway, so my assumption is that it was a mafia kill, at least.
Click to expand...







Spoiler: keldeo agrees with trebek about rolecop being probably mafia #1012






Keldeo said:


> Trebek said:
> 
> 
> 
> also, i just thought of something:
> 
> would the whole speculation of mafia having a night killer, a day killer, and a role investigator semi-clear julia if it turned out to be true, since we know that all of those roles have been active in the past 48-ish hours?
> 
> 
> 
> My assumption is the night kill is a factional ability and could be sent in by any member of the mafia. Also, sorry if I missed you explaining it somewhere, but what makes you think the role cop is mafia? (I think if a role cop exists I kinda agree, but I want to know what you're thinking there.)
> 
> I guess I like that you had this thought.
Click to expand...




Trebek said:


> i mentioned that because it was a line of reasoning that skylar brought up earlier. it was less of a "i think theres a role cop mafia" and more of a "if there is, what are the ramifications?"


----------



## Novae

Ysabel said:


> @Mist any thoughts on Skylar's vote on you?


skylar is a dead villager why would I have those


----------



## Ys_

Oh, OK, that makes sense, I guess. @Seshas.
In that case, I feel better but at the same time so confuzzled lol. 

My thoughts: I swear Sande feels too genuine to be anything but town. Her explanation makes total sense, even though her voting is lolwut but I also understand her reasoning for those votes.


----------



## Ys_

Omg I mean *they sorry


----------



## sanderidge

(i changed my pronoun field to just "they" like halfway through this game pls don't worry about it!)


----------



## Trebek

hmmmm

*unvote *for now 
some thinking is in order


----------



## mewtini

longish post coming soon tbh


----------



## Zori

_Votecount (#1266):_
*crickets*



Spoiler: Vote History



Mist1422 votes sanderidge [->1] (#1159)
Trebek votes sanderidge [->2] (#1165)
_Mist1422 unvotes sanderidge [1->] (#1240)
Trebek unvotes sanderidge [0->] (#1264)_


----------



## Ys_

*Trebek*
I don't feel too good about the wagonomic things and the potential indirect flushing of villagers. If I'm believing Sande, which I am, then that means that Mist is confirmed so one of the SS is faking it and I would 100% trust mewt so, hmm. And people were weary of Trebek before the SS thing, too. Don't follow me blindly though, if there's something I'm not seeing.

Also if either mewtini or sanderidge are mafia then kudos to them heh.


----------



## Trebek

i mean, idk what i can say in defense of the wagonomics other than i thought i liked it, i didnt realize that people inherently saw it as scummy, and i stopped believing as much in it after further talking about jolt?


----------



## Trebek

and yeah, the new info about rolecards definitely makes my club-dealings look super suspicious/pockety now, which is unfortunate :(


----------



## Trebek

i feel like even with that info, i can’t help but townread everyone in the club for how they talked about it, so idk how much it changes my PoE?


----------



## mewtini

Trebek said:


> i mean, idk what i can say in defense of the wagonomics other than i thought i liked it, i didnt realize that people inherently saw it as scummy, and i stopped believing as much in it after further talking about jolt?


to be clear wagonomics aren't inherently scummy, i'm not really sure why you think that's being said? it's the insistence that it warranted a townlean over other players in the PoE to the point of creating a moral conflict that is :')

anyway

The Post That Took All Damn Day To Write Because I Kept Getting Distracted:
so. i think secret club might as well explain/disband since it is definitely compromised lol
The Club was a group of people recognizing some flavorcrumbing/softclaims from the VT rolecard :') growing with uh, varying speed as we caught on to said crumbing over time

i brought the fakeclaim prospect up because it would mean that the club doesn't definitively locktown its members, which i was growing really paranoid of - in particular when talking to trebek who i think has had consistently awkward EoDs despite my early townread on him for d1 talk (as i said earlier, if he weren't locktown from my pov, i'd probably have considered throwing a vote down there). i also initially thought he was the likeliest to be town because he was the first person, by far, to crumb - but paranoia!thought brought me to the possibility that drawing out VTs would help mafia PR hunt, and seeing as no one within the ring has been nightkilled, i'm sort of thinking emoji right now

with my early-tunnel vindicated now that superjolt's flipped red, i think trebek looks ... not great based off of how he's talked about superjolt? throughout yesterDay he hedged on every single person in his PoE - julia, mist, and sande - while refusing to vote for any of those people and being unwilling to even put superjolt in the PoE off of a wagonomics read (despite calling sande/mist towny and not wanting to vote julia), until near the end of the Day at ~1hr before EoD when it became clear that superjolt was going to be the +1 popularity lynch (and after i'd pressed him for extended rationale that he never gave). having said that he was waiting on mist's replies to decide between a mist/jolt vote, he later says:


Trebek said:


> yeah i was waiting for mist to come back to vote jolt :p


with no further elaboration on what he thought about mist's posts and effectively retconned that he'd been actively opposing putting jolt in the PoE and that he had been holding onto his townlean (only ever admitting that he wasn't townleaning superjolt "as much" in 1067, despite jolt not having towny posting and despite jolt being the single most sus looking player off of the nightkills) while _still hedging_ and not giving concrete thoughts on almost any player in the game. the VT ring dissolution really could incriminate any of us tbh but i think that, in retrospect, trebek has consistently behaved in the most anti-town ways.

*trebek*


----------



## Novae

If someone did bus I think it's trebek and I will note that if he was scum with a night action he would lose it by voting me over Jolt


----------



## Novae

also gunsmith story soon:tm: I'm currently getting over Disappointment Deja Vu (airhorns)


----------



## mewtini

god please tell


----------



## Trebek

mewtini said:


> to be clear wagonomics aren't inherently scummy, i'm not really sure why you think that's being said?


i was mostly thinking of this when i said that: 


mewtini said:


> because wagonomics are kind of flimsy and easy wolf rationale tbh.


frankly idk what else to say

like

i had wagon vibes about jolt, and then we talked about it and i admitted that maybe my vibes were wrong and that i was reconsidering my town lean on them, and then the assumption just kept being that i was clearing them? 

and the reason i voted before mist responded was that i wasn’t sure if i would be around for the rest of the EoD and that i had already been vibing with a jolt vote (which idk how else to say it in a way that gets that point across?), but then mist read super genuine to me so i didn’t feel the need to change my vote


idk, it’s just kinda frustrating that there’s this perceived notion of what i was thinking when i’ve said multiple times that that wasn’t the case, so now i don’t really know what i’m supposed to say that i haven’t said before to explain anything 

so i guess i just die today honestly. at least we aren’t in MyLo lmao


----------



## Novae

okay this might be sort of a long post but I'll do it


----------



## Novae

Prologue: what even is a gunsmith
A gunsmith is a role (usually town-aligned) that can give another player a gun which essentially temporarily turns them into a 1-shot vig (sometimes day, sometimes night, occasionally uninformed but not usually)


----------



## mewtini

sorry 2 interrupt mist


Trebek said:


> i was mostly thinking of this when i said that:


again - _not inherently scummy, _that's not what i meant. 'weak' rationale can be a reason that you TR someone! but not a reason to say "i'll put them near my PoE but not in it" and the reason i'm pressing is that there was no indication you were vibing with a jolt vote whatsoever. i'll feel really bad if you're just town but the progression feels inconsistent to me


----------



## Novae

Once upon a time, there was an Absol. (yes this is relevant.) That Absol had the ability to foretell coming disasters, as all Absol do (though admittedly the detail of this was pretty much creative license on my part OKAY NO MORE INTERRUPTIONS). Unfortunately, this did not protect her from a Tragic Backstory Event that left her both orphaned and mute. 6(maybe 8 idr) years after the TBE, that Absol went off to a school in a tower. Little did she know that tower would be the site of a SeshasGame (cue dramatic music). [This is when I change perspective and start talking OOC]

Basically, 19B was a game hosted by Seshas on ToS. The concept of it was that everyone would roleplay as a different pokemon. Some people (me) got very into it, some people did not. There were a lot of technical problems with the game, most of which seshas would probably blame herself for, even though they weren't really her fault

What this has to do with gunsmith? that was my role in that game ok thanks for listening to me ramble


----------



## Novae

mewtini said:


> sorry 2 interrupt mist


first of all, how dare you,


----------



## Trebek

maybe we just have differing opinions on what constitutes a PoE then

other than that i really don’t know how i can respond to any of this in a way that i haven’t tried before, so i’m probably just gonna bail thread and pop up again around EoD

if i die i die but it’s not worth it to keep saying the same things and have them be ignored


----------



## Novae

hello keldeo and rari tbh


----------



## sanderidge

(happy birthday keldeo! and hi rari and i think mawile has also been reading along! hi!!) 

anyway i am posting to say i have been reading along and thinking about things but i don't really have anything coherent to offer right now. mostly i'm thinking that the last two times i developed opinions on my own they turned out to be wrong :p so i'm kiiind of tempted to go along with the general trebek-ish vibes? which goes against my own vibing - i haven't actually been feeling that weird about trebek compared to the way i was suspicious at others earlier in the game - but again the last two times i had My Own Opinions they were not right. so. idk.

i'm probably going to go through his iso at some point? maybe tonight? bc i don't really get what trebek and mewt were talking about with wagonomics. but i've been refreshing this thread a lot and i didn't get to nap today so i am taking a break for now


----------



## mewtini

and mawile!


----------



## Ys_

First off, Trebek, it's not personal ^^' I really dislike doing that, voting for you, but like, going off of how not everyone can be town...
Idk. Do you see any other possible logic?



Superjolt said:


> Some quick takes here, it’s not much but probably the best I can do for now (I kind of started skimming everything)
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler
> 
> 
> 
> Bluwiikoon - mentioned already that I get the same kind of pure Vibes as last game and this hasn’t changed (though Blu did feel a little more solvey on D1 in Cats I thought) umm could this be considered hedging?
> 
> Mist - no opinion here, guess they never came in to give those Takes(tm)
> 
> sanderidge - I kind of want to say sande feels pure on tone (kind of similar to Blu but also maybe less so and with an asterisk that she does have more experience... if this makes sense? maybe need to revisit later) also hedging?
> 
> kyeugh - kind of gave thoughts above already
> 
> kokorico - gave thoughts here too, still unsure here
> 
> Ysabel - seems alright so far? Her reads felt genuine at least.  I did skim tho so maybe need to check over again I thought maybe this could mean why I got the positive popularity. Still wondering why maf would give it to me but *shrug* maybe they underestimated me? Bc to be fair everyone was giving neutral reads?
> 
> Keldeo - feels good so far and I don’t think I’ve had a problem with any of the questions he’s asked. I will note that I kind of felt the same way in Cats about him early on though. I also don’t support the wagon he’s started! On a serious note though not entirely sure how I feel about his vote on me, I think it would have been stronger if he had coupled it with more than just getting me to contribute, which I would have done anyway even without a vote (unless there’s actually more to it and I’m already forgetting)
> 
> mewtini- Getting similar vibes to last game where she was town so I think town
> 
> Trebek- thought he seemed ok early on but not sure now, he was tough to read last game hmmm
> 
> 404 not found - Julia, Mr ultracool , m+7
> 
> hmm this feels like too many unsures/nulls... but this is where I’m at
> 
> 
> 
> Umm if I had questions for anyone I honestly can’t remember anymore my brain is so fried at this point lmao. Also screw you xenforo for eating part of this post somehow and making me type that part again!
> 
> I have to get up early and I’m dreading it  D:
> 
> so now I sleep...


*shrug* basically 'I feel good about Blu, mewtini and Ysabel, unsure about the rest'


----------



## Ys_

Also :o happy birthday Snooloo! And hi Rari and Mawile and well, whomever is reading x3


----------



## Ys_

The only thing I'm having second thoughts about is Mist saying they're VT but not regognizing the thing about the true calling thing from Trebek's post? But that would mean I didn't trust Sande. And why didn't Trebek mention this... He just sort of seemed to give up?


----------



## mewtini

i was wondering that about mist too tbh. then again if they haven't been keeping up (and it seems like they've been kind of in and out of the thread) then i guess it could be looked over ... ? i didn't recognize the thing at first and only caught it on reread so idk


----------



## sanderidge

mrrrh i skimmed trebek's iso and collected quotes for looking at/posting later but i don't know how i feel about actually putting vibes into Thoughts rn

reading it feels kind of like the thoughts have a lot of possible directions but i can't always follow how they get resolved/acted on?? so i think i'm going to have to actually sit down and read it thoroughly tomorrow morning. i'm still kind of nervous about how i'm putting together my own thoughts bc even when i felt more confident (especially when i was looking at mist's iso) things didn't turn out the way i thought. for that one, i was trying to look at content and not really the tone of posts + look at interactions... so maybe i should try to focus on something different for looking at trebek's? but if i don't look at those idk how i'm supposed to come to any conclusions at all. maybe i Should be tonereading but the last time i did that i was feeling iffy about ysabel and that also didn't turn out the way i thought it would.

idk. i don't feel like i know what i'm doing and i don't really trust my ability to figure things out anymore. but i also feel like not thinking at all could get me to make stupid decisions. although i could always Only trust people i've checked

i'm going to have to sleep on it i think


----------



## Novae

Ysabel said:


> The only thing I'm having second thoughts about is Mist saying they're VT but not regognizing the thing about the true calling thing from Trebek's post? But that would mean I didn't trust Sande. And why didn't Trebek mention this... He just sort of seemed to give up?


I recognized it but didn't call it out specifically because I wasn't sure how far within the rules it was


----------



## Bluwiikoon

I'm having a hard time buying sande's Naive Cop claim because I kind of feel like a GM wouldn't tell a cop if they have sanity shenanigans? I haven't spectated _too_ many games, but any cops I've seen with strange sanity rules have been unaware of it. :( Presumably, all that a Naive Cop would be able to do in this game is just know whether someone has positive or negative popularity.



sanderidge said:


> i am, first and foremost, a dumbass
> second i am a naive cop who gets red checks on anyone with negative popularity
> i checked keldeo n0, ysabel n1, and mist last night
> i have not gotten any red results lmfao so
> i don't think i'm very likely to I Die Now but i wouldn't be surprised if i did


Keldeo has already perished and is thus easy to fake a green check on IMO. If Ysabel is town (I sure hope so! The cluuub!), that's also easy to fake a green on, and potentially a TMI is sande is wolf.

If my tinhatting is reasonably accurate, kyeugh got rolecopped N0 and learned about it thanks to her role, then MP7 probably got checked N1, and _maybe_ actually Mist last Night. In which case, if Mist is truly part of our Club, that's a green check for sure. One thing of note is that Mist didn't claim to be part of the Club yesterDay, so logically they would make sense as a target to rolecop to scout out power roles.

I'm nervous about putting too much weight behind my own thoughts, but I promised I'd try to play more strongly! And I gotta follow my gut! And my gut says... needs more hydration.  

*sanderidge*


----------



## Zori

_Votecount (#1292):_
*Trebek* | 2 | Ysabel (#1267), mewtini (#1271)
sanderidge | 1 | Bluwiikoon (#1291)



Spoiler: Vote History



Mist1422 votes sanderidge [->1] (#1159)
Trebek votes sanderidge [->2] (#1165)
_Mist1422 unvotes sanderidge [1->] (#1240)
Trebek unvotes sanderidge [0->] (#1264)_
*Ysabel votes Trebek [->1] (#1267)
mewtini votes Trebek [->2] (#1271)
Bluwiikoon votes sanderidge [->1] (#1291)*


----------



## Novae

I still do not exactly know what this Club is


----------



## Bluwiikoon

Mewtini revealed it already, so: we're all the VT squad!  _(Supposedly...)_


----------



## Bluwiikoon

I do have a gun now but it has no bullets so I'm still VT, I think. May try to display it in my house or something ^^ A little display case, or maybe something to hang it on the wall


----------



## Ys_

Thing is, that would make us 5 VTs, 6 if you believe Koko could have been a VT too? Ehh maybe. 
@mewt and Mist: fair enough.
@Blu I agree on the naive cop thing but maybe it makes sense if Seshas intended for the popularity changing role to be used more? Do you trust everyone who has claimed being part of the club?
On Trebek: the thing with him is people mentioned his awkward posting but MP said she felt better about him after a while, and [... head empty. I know I made an ISO on him before.] 

@Trebek I don't know if you clarified but what did you expect with the wagon movement? Which you mentioned in D1?


----------



## sanderidge

:'D i don't really know what i can do here, blu, bc everything you're suspicious about is stuff i can't do anything about? i could try to explain the logic behind my targets again but it's really just targeting keldeo because i'm scared of how good he is + targeting the people i was most suspicious of that Day so i could know if i was right. 

although, i think i could try asking a question? why would a wolf make up a naive cop claim instead of just saying cop?? that would simplify what they had to say (and presumably what they had to keep track of), and that would've gotten rid of any suspicions about "why do you know about your sanity stuff". 

:'D... idk what else i can do here. i'm going to go try to Have Thoughts on trebek's iso


----------



## Ys_

Also lol @ me not being cleared by now.
If I was mafia I had two opportunities to not vote SJ. I.could have voted Mist or Ultracool instead. Or just not vote. It wouldn't have been too hard since there were already townies on those wagons. Maybe you could be more sus of me if I had done that but it would have bought maf an extra day..?


----------



## Bluwiikoon

sanderidge said:


> :'D i don't really know what i can do here, blu, bc everything you're suspicious about is stuff i can't do anything about? i could try to explain the logic behind my targets again but it's really just targeting keldeo because i'm scared of how good he is + targeting the people i was most suspicious of that Day so i could know if i was right.
> 
> although, i think i could try asking a question? why would a wolf make up a naive cop claim instead of just saying cop?? that would simplify what they had to say (and presumably what they had to keep track of), and that would've gotten rid of any suspicions about "why do you know about your sanity stuff".
> 
> :'D... idk what else i can do here. i'm going to go try to Have Thoughts on trebek's iso


That's a good point! You implied that a Naive Cop would get accurate checks unless their target had negative popularity, right? I could view this as a smart gambit, wherein you could theoretically get a red check on someone with no visible popularity modifiers toMorrow and then create a wagon against an actual townie. Thereafter you could be like "oops! Must have been my naivety!" if the game lasted another day after that.

This _could_ be tunnelling but I so badly want to trust the Club.  Ride or die for my bros!!!


----------



## sanderidge

Bluwiikoon said:


> That's a good point! You implied that a Naive Cop would get accurate checks unless their target had negative popularity, right?


yeah!! ... i think! because my role pm doesn't _actually _say that in that way - it says i'll learn whether or not the target is aligned with mafia, and that if a player has less than 0 popularity they will appear as mafia. there's no text that guarantees i have _accurate_ checks _above_ 0 :'D which is why i've been a tiny bit paranoid that there's stuff going on that i actually haven't been told about (which might explain why i haven't gotten any red checks >:/ and was also why i panicked when ysabel said stuff about mafia chat being open during the day, bc i thought maybe her positive popularity that day made the check return green when she actually wasn't). 

for the record, i Do Not _currently_ think that i get all green above 0 and all red below 0 because i feel like that's bastardly + there's other stuff that clears ysabel, like she's posted above, but nervousness about my role Is a thing that's been kind of haunting me.


----------



## Ys_

A last thought. If Trebek is town then maybe Sande/Mist could be a team. Not a strong suspicion but I'm just unsure who else it could be. If Trebek is mafia then it's possible that Blu is a mafia buddy.


----------



## sanderidge

hgh so i've read through the past ten pages of the thread and gone over trebek's iso again, and i feel really weird because i'm getting... almost totally different vibes from earlygame trebek and Current Trebek? time for a lot of quotes




Trebek said:


> the real question is, if town decides to try to yeet someone today, it will be interesting to see how mafia react around the wagons, since they know how it will affect their popularity and we don’t


so this is the early post that everyone liked! (including me, and it was pretty much the only thing that stuck out to me about trebek on the first day.) this poast is a really short observation but it's a good one. iirc keldeo argued it was NAI at some point (if i have time before i post this i'll go find that quote) but i don't think mafia would feel like they need to say this, especially on the first day





Trebek said:


> Ysabel said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Trebek said:
> 
> 
> 
> the other issue i have with representatives is that it seems easy for mafia to weasel themselves into the process, maybe even electing a member of their own as the rep?
> 
> 
> 
> I don't disagree, but can you expand on this please? Why is that bad?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> my concern i think got more generally/succinctly explained by keldeo, which is just the overall issues with consensus voting not hitting mafia. i was mostly just thinking about mafia pushing a consensus towards a townie, and then since only the representative votes it becomes a lot harder to analyze who was pushing to kill town
Click to expand...

this was also the first day and i think this he had a towny stance on the rep idea? not that the rep idea is inherently scummy, but that the thought process (not giving the mafia an easy way to control the vote + wanting a way to analyze who wanted to kill town) seems good.





Trebek said:


> i also agree that people should try to avoid tipping off their roles in how they talk about/do things relative to the popularity mechanic: at this early in the game we should probably not outwardly worry about it too much (inwardly is a different story :o)





Trebek said:


> I think i have a better idea than i did before, but i worry that talking about my idea will result in people changing their behavior to make my idea worthless, so i would prefer to not bring it up until after wagons happen and/or enough people ask about it





mewtini said:


> i also initially thought he was the likeliest to be town because he was the first person, by far, to crumb - but paranoia!thought brought me to the possibility that drawing out VTs would help mafia PR hunt, and seeing as no one within the ring has been nightkilled, i'm sort of thinking emoji right now


i put all those quotes next to each other bc trebek and mewt feel like they're going in opposite directions - trebek early on sounds like he's worried about popularity giving away power roles, while mewt points out that if he's mafia it looks like he made the Secret Club to hunt power roles. i _think _he's referencing the secret club in the second quote already, which was in D1 iirc. which... looks really bad for trebek if he is mafia, because then there's Lying To Cover My Ass in the first vs second quotes. on the other hand, if he's town... idk? i guess it would be a good idea to try to clear as many people as possible? because that's the point of the game. idk. i think that looks bad for him though because it makes more sense as mafia than as town. 





Trebek said:


> also, tentative popularity check!
> 
> Keldeo, sande and I are at confirmed -1
> skylar is at tentative -1
> everyone else is at tentative 0
> 
> last nights flavor and other secret mechanics notwithstanding


i feel like this... looks bad... when put with the stuff above? i think in isolation it's a good thing to do to help town keep on top of popularity instead of everyone frantically referencing every EOD on their own. but with the stuff above where he might have been trying to PR hunt that might have been also trying to draw a reaction? ... even though right after he posts this he does say he still thinks everyone should act normal and not worry about popularity too much.






Trebek said:


> ive been thinking a lot about Blu's ISO of me: theres a particular thing that he said / response to a thing i posted that makes me want to believe that hes town, but i cant tell if he said it intentionally or not    (if you know what i'm talking about Blu hehe)
> 
> most of my bandwidth has been sorta needlessly devoted to thinking about the popularity flavor though, so i definitely need to go back and reread through D1 with the newer flips still in mind


this is later on in the thread (following quotes are still before this) but he keeps referencing popularity while saying not to think about it. maybe i am overanalyzing but 





Trebek said:


> Keldeo said:
> 
> 
> 
> Do you have any more behavioral reads beyond your Ysabel one, Trebek?
> 
> Also, can you talk a little about how you're planning to play/approach this game given your experience in Cats? If this question doesn't make sense to you, you can ignore it.
> 
> 
> 
> to be honest, i don't have many behavioral reads, which is related to the second part of your question. I knew going into Cats that the mechanical portion of play was where i was much more comfortable, but i got stressed out D1 and tried to artificially create reads for the sake of "having reads" that i could tell people about, which ended up just causing more people to nullread me for large portions of the game. i wanted to try to play more to my strengths in this game, which may lead to an awkward D1 again, but i would rather run the risk of just getting yeeted early and having the opportunity to make more mech-based thoughts about the game than just making up things to talk about early on
Click to expand...




Trebek said:


> i just want more mechanics to happen so i can actually Think and be Producive >.<


maybe this is why trebek Now feels so different to me from trebek Earlier? maybe his style changes a lot when there are mechanics to go off of and we're not all just trying to tone read (which is also really hard for me). 




Trebek said:


> actually, hot take:
> 
> if the wagons are v/v, who is currently not voting? this is sorta what i was thinking of when i made the post ™ that seems to be getting quoted a lot
> 
> if wagons are v/v mafia know their popularity will go down so they might try to avoid voting and let town self destruct


this seems like a towny-mechanics-thing to say? but there wasn't a lot of development on the idea or moving with it after. maybe because the idea became irrelevant really fast? but i think one of the reasons i got a lot of "this could go in so many directions" vibes was that a lot of trebek's posts propose something that seems useful or good and then it... goes nowhere or is just not mentioned again





Trebek said:


> Keldeo said:
> 
> 
> 
> Trebek, if you still think Superjolt was more likely to be town, where do you think we should be looking today? How do you read the people who joined each of the wagons if Superjolt is town vs. if Superjolt is mafia?
> 
> 
> 
> If Superjolt is mafia, then i would likely look at sande for the late vote onto UC, sort of like what Mist mentioned (and this would also kinda throw you and i under suspicion as well lol)
> 
> If the wagons are v/v, then i think i would actually be the most interested in people who didnt vote at all, but iirc that mostly lines up with people who were already inactive or had a societal Get Out Of Jail Free card from voting
> 
> so at the end of the day im still ?_? lmao
Click to expand...

like, he definitely still has the idea later in the thread! and he has the idea of what he'd do with it! and he does move onto suspicion with me, like voting for me earlier today, but that's like the one (1) thing i can find where Stuff Happens After Idea? but the thing is 



Trebek said:


> yeah, i’m wondering if my PoE is gonna force me to conclude that there’s one mafia between [mist and sande], but idk about much rn tbh





Trebek said:


> mewtini said:
> 
> 
> 
> yeah. but what’s wrong the wagons themselves? both mist and sande are in your PoE aren’t they
> 
> 
> 
> i guess its not necessarily that i dislike them objectively
> 
> im just getting bad vibes and i have 0 clue why
Click to expand...

i guess this is why mewtini was confused at/pushing trebek, because it seems really weird to vote for superjolt when at the time the other two wagons were _both _people he was more actively suspicious of? maybe it was for towny bus points / not to vote for town to keep a night action?? and maybe i'm biased and wanting to find trebek suspicious lmao. but i'm starting to feel iffy 





Trebek said:


> i had wagon vibes about jolt, and then we talked about it and i admitted that maybe my vibes were wrong and that i was reconsidering my town lean on them, and then the assumption just kept being that i was clearing them?
> 
> and the reason i voted before mist responded was that i wasn’t sure if i would be around for the rest of the EoD and that i had already been vibing with a jolt vote (which idk how else to say it in a way that gets that point across?), but then mist read super genuine to me so i didn’t feel the need to change my vote
> 
> idk, it’s just kinda frustrating that there’s this perceived notion of what i was thinking when i’ve said multiple times that that wasn’t the case, so now i don’t really know what i’m supposed to say that i haven’t said before to explain anything
> 
> so i guess i just die today honestly. at least we aren’t in MyLo lmao


wagon vibes about jolt --> admitting vibes are wrong --> continuing to vote for jolt --> ??? 
the end of this post doesn't feel mafia-ish to me, though? i don't really feel like just giving up is a mafia move





Trebek said:


> maybe we just have differing opinions on what constitutes a PoE then
> 
> other than that i really don’t know how i can respond to any of this in a way that i haven’t tried before, so i’m probably just gonna bail thread and pop up again around EoD
> 
> if i die i die but it’s not worth it to keep saying the same things and have them be ignored


same deal about giving up not feeling mafia ish to me here


----------



## sanderidge

anyway after that reading and the things mewt's said in their long post i don't feel that good about *trebek*

the thing about it is that i really don't think just giving up when pushed is a mafia thing?? so i also don't feel entirely good about my vote, but my feelings are kind of small when compared to... all that reading stuff. so that's where i'm at


----------



## sanderidge

if trebek is town this is going to be the Second time i come into eod with a really long post and vote for the wrong person at the last minute and i'm going to look Awful. i really hope we're right this time lmfao


----------



## sanderidge

LMAO IT'S NOT EOD NEVER MIND


----------



## Ys_

Wait we still have one more day?


----------



## Ys_

*facepalm* lmao. Well, I'm sure Trebek is mafia at this point, so it doesn't change much of anything, so, um.


----------



## Zori

*23 hours remain in Day 3.*


----------



## Zori

_Votecount (#1309):_
*Trebek* | 2 | Ysabel (#1267), mewtini (#1271), sanderidge (#1303)
sanderidge | 1 | Bluwiikoon (#1291)



Spoiler: Vote History



Mist1422 votes sanderidge [->1] (#1159)
Trebek votes sanderidge [->2] (#1165)
_Mist1422 unvotes sanderidge [1->] (#1240)
Trebek unvotes sanderidge [0->] (#1264)_
*Ysabel votes Trebek [->1] (#1267)
mewtini votes Trebek [->2] (#1271)
Bluwiikoon votes sanderidge [->1] (#1291)
sanderidge votes Trebek [->3] (#1303)*


----------



## mewtini

is that vc off or


----------



## Zori

mewtini said:


> is that vc off or


I would say "I have no idea what you're talking about" but I can't edit messages so you're going to have to settle for a "wait, lul"


----------



## Zori

_Votecount (#1312):_
*Trebek* | 3 | Ysabel (#1267), mewtini (#1271), sanderidge (#1303)
sanderidge | 1 | Bluwiikoon (#1291)



Spoiler: Vote History



Mist1422 votes sanderidge [->1] (#1159)
Trebek votes sanderidge [->2] (#1165)
_Mist1422 unvotes sanderidge [1->] (#1240)
Trebek unvotes sanderidge [0->] (#1264)_
*Ysabel votes Trebek [->1] (#1267)
mewtini votes Trebek [->2] (#1271)
Bluwiikoon votes sanderidge [->1] (#1291)
sanderidge votes Trebek [->3] (#1303)*



nothing to see here


----------



## Novae

interesting tbh


----------



## Ys_

Rereading time, because wynaut!



kokorico said:


> Anyway hi guys!
> [...]
> 
> 
> Keldeo said:
> 
> 
> 
> Do we know if this game is all vanilla / only a few power roles / mostly power roles? If it was mentioned somewhere, I forgot. I guess we know it's not the first because of the popularity role mechanic.
> 
> 
> 
> *I think this quote suggests there is a reasonably high PR density:*
> 
> 
> IndigoEmmy said:
> 
> 
> 
> Lots of the snoms in this city have special skills to use that could come in handy for stopping the zoruas... or stopping the town :0
> 
> Click to expand...
Click to expand...

Yeah. Mafia have the thing that went BOOM! (unless that was a 3p thing?) The night kills and the role cop, plus the popularity singer? So it makes sense that town had the gunsmith, naive cop, and whatever Skylar and Snooloo were. + Koko and UC which we don't know their roles. But it would be unlucky if they were both PRs, so we could be seeing 4/6 or 5/5. Doubt it was 3/7. Which imo makes Sande more believable. But yeah, we don't have that info. 


Mist1422 said:


> oh
> 
> if there aren't we definitely do not hypocop because like, there's no point if we can't actually figure the cop out when they die





Mist1422 said:


> I can't get upset about cats because I am not a cat!
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler
> 
> 
> 
> also, that is not close to the worst town loss I've had recently





Mist1422 said:


> kokorico said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mist1422 said:
> 
> 
> 
> also, that is not close to the worst town loss I've had recently
> 
> 
> 
> I think it's storytime!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> @Seshas is a dirty pocketer is what >:c
Click to expand...

OwO xD is this related to the gunsmith story? 


Superjolt said:


> hello! I am not silenced and not aware of being targeted by anything!
> 
> btw do you all like my hat??


The answer was yes btw :P


Mist1422 said:


> see
> 
> rolling town was the most disappointing thing because I really, really wanted to lolfox


I talked about this with Koko on D1 but this sounds genuine enough to me. 


Bluwiikoon said:


> I feel like the flavor text indicates some kind of power role that can drag people  I'd assume such a thing would be a wolf power, so maybe for now we can assume kyeugh is innocent? Just the target of mean gossip LOL


Yee, agreed, which gives Blu more townie vibes. 


Trebek said:


> ok so i woke up this morning and was like <trebek don’t forget snomfia starts today> and then i did :< but i’m alive now!
> 
> i would also hardclaim VT but i’d rather choose my own calling in life :p maybe i’ll hardclaim alien


This is The Post. At first glance, SS things aside, looks genuine enough. 


Bluwiikoon said:


> Snom but with the little alien headband thing


Is this what Trebek was referring to when he said Blu said something that town locked him? If so, I didn't catch that.


Bluwiikoon said:


> Given the popularity mechanics and the limited number of players, would abstaining in this game be the best option until we can build up mechanical stuff?


To be fair, we didn't know how the popularity mech would affect then, much less for a VT. And this is the post that made me suggest The Strategy. 


Bluwiikoon said:


> If we mislynch tho we get a debuff  Which will be bad if/when mafia goons want to push more mislynches imo


If mafias became double voters is what I assumed he meant. 


mewtini said:


> so there're 13 of us right? so that's like three wolves


Again, agree with the logic and it seems like a townie thing to think of. (Mafia would already know!) 


Trebek said:


> the real question is, if town decides to try to yeet someone today, it will be interesting to see how mafia react around the wagons, since they know how it will affect their popularity and we don’t


Yeah.. But that wasn't a question :P


----------



## mewtini

fwiw i’m pretty sure trebek was referring to when, while going through trebek’s iso, blu made it a point to reply to the “choose a calling” crumb that was part of trebek’s entrance post


----------



## mewtini

for the thing that made him townlock blu


----------



## Ys_

Oh, yeah. Makes sense. I probably didn't catch that either but yep!


----------



## Novae

game dead

anything else important to say tbh


----------



## Ys_

Everyone lost interest..


----------



## sanderidge

it's been very quiet...


----------



## Zori

_Votecount (#1321):_
*Trebek* | 3 | Ysabel (#1267), mewtini (#1271), sanderidge (#1303)
sanderidge | 1 | Bluwiikoon (#1291)



Spoiler: Vote History



Mist1422 votes sanderidge [->1] (#1159)
Trebek votes sanderidge [->2] (#1165)
_Mist1422 unvotes sanderidge [1->] (#1240)
Trebek unvotes sanderidge [0->] (#1264)_
*Ysabel votes Trebek [->1] (#1267)
mewtini votes Trebek [->2] (#1271)
Bluwiikoon votes sanderidge [->1] (#1291)
sanderidge votes Trebek [->3] (#1303)*


votecount should? be the same as last time


----------



## Bluwiikoon

All the snoms are taking a big nap is all  Scrutinising everyone is hard work!


----------



## Bluwiikoon

Also...! Art fight started, so some snoms may be particularly busy scribbling other snoms. ^^

(My snom OC has horns, fluffy wings and a long tail! And they shoot lasers!!)


----------



## Bluwiikoon

I stand by my sande suspicions, but if Trebek flips red I will be really really sad :( The saddest of snoms!


----------



## IndigoClaudia

Day ends 9 minutes


----------



## sanderidge

D: ,,, 
i'm getting really nervous because i _really_ don't think mafia would just... give up and not come back? but the other wagon is me, so, uh?! i don't know what to do...


----------



## mewtini

it's possible they wanted to slow down the thread so info didn't slip out?? :'/


----------



## IndigoClaudia

Ok... dragging trebek to the stabby town square..

*stabby time!*

Eerie silence remains as you go stabby and he transforms into absolutely nothing. Just a normal snom.

*Trebek died. They were a Snom.

Game starts tommorow at this time so submit your night actions! *:D and don't get stabbied.


----------



## Zori

1 minute early smh my head


----------



## Zori

_Votecount (#1330):_
*Trebek* | 3 | Ysabel (#1267), mewtini (#1271), sanderidge (#1303)
sanderidge | 1 | Bluwiikoon (#1291)



Spoiler: Vote History



Mist1422 votes sanderidge [->1] (#1159)
Trebek votes sanderidge [->2] (#1165)
_Mist1422 unvotes sanderidge [1->] (#1240)
Trebek unvotes sanderidge [0->] (#1264)_
*Ysabel votes Trebek [->1] (#1267)
mewtini votes Trebek [->2] (#1271)
Bluwiikoon votes sanderidge [->1] (#1291)
sanderidge votes Trebek [->3] (#1303)*


*Trebek has died. They were a Snom.

Night 4 Begins. It will end in 24 hours.*​


Spoiler: Pings



@JuliaTheSeaTurtleQueen
@Mist1422
@Bluwiikoon
@sanderidge
@Ysabel
@mewtini
@Trebek





Spoiler: Game Summary



*N0

D1*
Mr. Ultracool has died. They were a *Snom*.

*N1*
kokorico has died. E was a *Snom*.

*D2*
M Plus 7 has died. She was a *Snom*.
Superjolt has died. They were a *Zorua*.

*N2*
Keldeo has died. They were a *Snom*.
kyeugh has died. They were a *Snom*.

*D3*
Trebek has died. They were a *Snom*.


----------



## Zori

*This was not in the Rules post, but please do not delete any of your posts in the game thread.*


----------



## Zori

Night Results going out, pardon the wait


----------



## Zori

*Mist1422 has died. They were a Snom.

Day 4 Begins. It will end in ~48 hours.*​


Spoiler: Pings



@JuliaTheSeaTurtleQueen
@Mist1422
@Bluwiikoon
@sanderidge
@Ysabel
@mewtini





Spoiler: Game Summary



*N0

D1*
Mr. Ultracool has died. They were a *Snom*.

*N1*
kokorico has died. E was a *Snom*.

*D2*
M Plus 7 has died. She was a *Snom*.
Superjolt has died. They were a *Zorua*.

*N2*
Keldeo has died. They were a *Snom*.
kyeugh has died. They were a *Snom*.

*D3*
Trebek has died. They were a *Snom*.

*N3*
Mist1422 has died. They were a *Snom*.



*ANNOUNCEMENT:*
_There are two *Zoruas* alive. The game is in *LyLo*. As a result, all voting modifiers, popularity-provided or otherwise, are disabled.
Additionally, you have the option to *dayskip*. If everyone agrees to dayskip, or the votes of everyone who agreed to dayskip makes it impossible for anyone else to get voted out, the day will end immediately._​


----------



## Bluwiikoon

*sanderidge* tbh


----------



## Bluwiikoon

I trust Ysabel and mewtini, be that foolish or not.  So I envision the remaining wolves as being sande and Julia


----------



## Bluwiikoon

Day Start keeps being around Shower Time, but I felt it pertinent to get my thoughts out there at least!


----------



## Ys_

Ok, let me try this.

_The  snolf (wolf snom) prowls, pupils dilating and nostrils flaring. It wags its tail in excitement and hops once on the snow. "Don't fear, snethren (snom brethren). I finally know who the last mafia's are._

*Bluwiikoon*.

You should have killed me when you had the chance, and you shouldn't have wasted that bullet on Skylar. 

:P


----------



## Bluwiikoon

PUPPY SNOM!!!!


----------



## Ys_

And my case: a mafia wouldn't have endangered their night action voting Trebek, and you abstained from voting for UC or Trebek.

And actually fwiw @Trebek you deserve more credit friendo. And Sande does, too. 

And everyone was so pocketed by Blu lol, but he was never a town lock for me (Except for the SS thing, and yesterday my head was empty) . But anyway, Blu, you forgot that I practically had Sande as full town. Hah.

Sande I know you're town so no worries. mewtini, if you're town don't let Blu pocket you.


----------



## Zori

_Votecount (#1340):_
*sanderidge* | 1 | Bluwiikoon (#1334)
*Bluwiikoon* | 1 | Ysabel (#1337)



Spoiler: Vote History



*Bluwiikoon votes sanderidge [->1] (#1334)
Ysabel votes Bluwiikoon [->1] (#1337)*


----------



## Bluwiikoon

Ok but PUPY aside () I had a shower thought! Shower logic?

I mistakenly said that sande must have targeted kyeugh n0 because kyeugh me tioned knowing she got targeted via her power, but I completely forgot about the popularizer targeting kyeugh n0!!!!  Shower brain not fit to analyse sande's claims rn, but I feel this confirms that the popularizer DID once live in our snillage (snom village) and sande did not "naivecop" kyeugh.

We all kinda knew that anyway but I wanted to address my mistake here, even though I've made a few mistakes


----------



## mewtini

oh right the day started today :'D hi guys
first thing: hhhhhh. sorry ryan.


----------



## Bluwiikoon

Ysabel I trust u bro why you out here voting me :(


----------



## Bluwiikoon

Seshas said:


> _Votecount (#1340):_
> *sanderidge* | 1 | Bluwiikoon (#1334)
> *Bluwiikoon* | 1 | Ysabel (#1337)
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Vote History
> 
> 
> 
> *Bluwiikoon votes sanderidge [->1] (#1334)
> Ysabel votes Bluwiikoon [->1] (#1337)*


If I die I can die knowing I was vote #1337


----------



## Bluwiikoon

Now, I'm not sure how to resolve this whole situation, but I'm glad I got to play in this game because I had good brain feelings throughout and I feel positive about the whole thing ^^ Even if kyeugh kicks me into orbit, I had a good time


----------



## Bluwiikoon

If I die mewtini can have my empty sniper rifle and my snacks


----------



## sanderidge

gurgles. i honestly thought i was going to die? but at least i still sent in my night action. i checked mewt bc she was the one who wrote the longer post pushing trebek (also because i'd already checked ysabel) aaaand guess what. all clear. so since there are only two people in the game that i haven't checked?? i'm going to go with the one ysabel already voted for and go for *blu*

lmfao at me never picking a right target in this entire game but at least process of elimination worked out to the two zorua left


----------



## sanderidge

also shoutout to koko for not getting tone pocketed early on 

also f for the mafia having an inactive for........ the entire game


----------



## Ys_

Wait...
Shouldn't you not have a night action?


----------



## sanderidge

nope - the popularity modifier things are gone


----------



## Bluwiikoon

See, a mafia goon would know I am a mere innocent  So they would vote for their self!

Gamer logic, I don't accept criticism


----------



## Bluwiikoon

Sande and Ysabel rolling a persuasion check on mewtini and I'm like

I'm just in a towel burrito fellas


----------



## sanderidge

snurrito.... snom burrito...


----------



## Bluwiikoon

If I'm mafia why isn't Trebek my wolf partner tbh :( I stanned him so hard!!! I did my first ISO and everything!


----------



## Bluwiikoon

I think the last living snom should be prom queen (snom queen)  If zoruas win then uhhhh they snatch the crown I guess!


----------



## sanderidge

sneen (snom queen)


----------



## Bluwiikoon

Shoutouts to Mawile and everybody else just out here spectating :D


----------



## Ys_

sanderidge said:


> also shoutout to koko for not getting tone pocketed early on
> 
> also f for the mafia having an inactive for........ the entire game


Yep. Good game for sure and good job on pocketing everyone lol. Also I may not have had Blu on townlock but I did think there was a high chance that he was townie, so. Well played.


sanderidge said:


> nope - the popularity modifier things are gone


Ohh, I thought they were only gone on the mylo day. Heh


Bluwiikoon said:


> If I'm mafia why isn't Trebek my wolf partner tbh :( I stanned him so hard!!! I did my first ISO and everything!


Yeah, that was my logic haha
And Sande would have been my mafia partner.

Also my snolf post deserves more likes :( (joke ^^) 

Also also I love how we're all basically memeing now


----------



## sanderidge

runs back to like the snolf post


----------



## Bluwiikoon

In another time and place... a reality far from here... Trebek and I could've been wolfmasons


----------



## sanderidge

in another time and place.... in a galaxy far, far away......................... _snom wars_


----------



## Bluwiikoon

If I were wolf I'd be dual wielding a gun and a sniper rifle, and that would just be silly!


----------



## Bluwiikoon

Sande won because they got page 69!!!

Dare I say it... _*NICE*_


----------



## Bluwiikoon

This is an interesting situation because if mewtini _did_ vote sande in my defence, the results of today would be a dice roll. Assuming Julia doesn't rise from the void

How much do we like gambling?


----------



## sanderidge

you can't use dice in a situation like this! instead, you must believe in the heart of the cards!


----------



## Bluwiikoon

I summon the mighty Strength card!!


__
		https://bluwiikoon-archive.tumblr.com%2Fpost%2F168107712383

I wish I still had the energy to draw things like this LOL


----------



## IndigoClaudia

Apologies friends! Computer issues have plagued me! Will be back tommorow for short time maybe?

Sorry Seshas!


----------



## Ys_

Jokes aside for a moment
@ mewtini are you OK? I don't know you and I may be worrying over the wrong thing but I hope you're not being too hard on yourself...


----------



## Zori

_Votecount (#1369):_
*Bluwiikoon* | 2 | Ysabel (#1337), sanderidge (#1347)
sanderidge | 1 | Bluwiikoon (#1334)



Spoiler: Vote History



*Bluwiikoon votes sanderidge [->1] (#1334)
Ysabel votes Bluwiikoon [->1] (#1337)
sanderidge votes Bluwiikoon [->2] (#1347)*


----------



## mewtini

Ysabel said:


> Jokes aside for a moment
> @ mewtini are you OK? I don't know you and I may be worrying over the wrong thing but I hope you're not being too hard on yourself...


hey thanks!! :') yeah i'm vibing, i've been really busy today/am now juggling tarot mafia so sorry for my absence tbh

i kind of like. am not sure what to do right now


----------



## Ys_

It's ok, don't worry! And yeah, I was reading the other game. Looks fun :) 
Hmm I can make ISOs on people later.


----------



## Bluwiikoon

If mewtini wants to vote for someone outside of sande/me I'll follow her lead tbh  That's the only chance we have of not slaying me, a mere VT


----------



## Ys_

We can always vote for Julia :P


----------



## Ys_

Ok.


Seshas said:


> _Votecount (#715):_
> *Mr. Ultracool* | 4 | Keldeo (#574), Trebek (#584), kokorico (#644), sanderidge (#706)
> *Superjolt* | 4 | Ysabel (#362), M Plus 7 (#570), mewtini (#575), Mist1422 (#724)
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Vote History
> 
> 
> 
> Trebek votes mewtini [->1] (#216)
> Trebek unvotes mewtini [0->] (#217)
> mewtini votes kyeugh [->1] (#219)
> mewtini unvotes kyeugh [0->] (#223)
> Keldeo votes Superjolt [->1] (#317)
> *Ysabel votes Superjolt [->2] (#362)*
> M Plus 7 votes Trebek [->1] (#407)
> M Plus 7 votes Trebek -> kokorico [0->1] (#467)
> Keldeo unvotes Superjolt [1->] (#517)
> M Plus 7 unvotes kokorico [0->] (#532)
> *M Plus 7 votes Superjolt [->2] (#570)
> Keldeo votes Mr. Ultracool [->1] (#574)
> mewtini votes Superjolt [->3] (#575)
> Trebek votes Mr. Ultracool [->2] (#584)
> kokorico votes Mr. Ultracool [->3] (#644)
> sanderidge votes Mr. Ultracool [->4] (#706)
> Mist1422 votes Superjolt [->4] (#724)*
> 
> 
> 
> If any errors have been made, PM me and Emmy before 19:15 UTC.
> Flip (+rand) will be happening then.





Seshas said:


> _Final Votecount (#1121):_
> *Superjolt* | 3 | mewtini (#1017), Ysabel (#1040), Trebek (#1064)
> Mist1422 | 2 | kyeugh (#878), sanderidge (#985)
> sanderidge | 1 | Mist1422 (#855)
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Vote History
> 
> 
> 
> *Mist1422 votes sanderidge [->1] (#855)
> kyeugh votes Mist1422 [->1] (#878)*
> mewtini votes kyeugh [->1] (#933)
> mewtini unvotes kyeugh [0->] (#949)
> Ysabel votes Mist1422 [->2] (#963)
> Ysabel unvotes Mist1422 [1->] (#978)
> *sanderidge votes Mist1422 [->2] (#985)*
> Trebek votes Trebek [->1] (#990)
> Trebek unvotes Trebek [0->] (#992)
> *mewtini votes Superjolt [->1] (#1017)*
> Keldeo votes Superjolt [->2] (#1019)
> *Ysabel votes Superjolt [->3] (#1040)
> Trebek votes Superjolt [->4] (#1064)*
> _Keldeo unvotes Superjolt [3->] (#1066)_
> 
> 
> 
> Flip in ~15 minutes, same deal as last time
> glgl





Seshas said:


> _Votecount (#1330):_
> *Trebek* | 3 | Ysabel (#1267), mewtini (#1271), sanderidge (#1303)
> sanderidge | 1 | Bluwiikoon (#1291)
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Vote History
> 
> 
> 
> Mist1422 votes sanderidge [->1] (#1159)
> Trebek votes sanderidge [->2] (#1165)
> _Mist1422 unvotes sanderidge [1->] (#1240)
> Trebek unvotes sanderidge [0->] (#1264)_
> *Ysabel votes Trebek [->1] (#1267)
> mewtini votes Trebek [->2] (#1271)
> Bluwiikoon votes sanderidge [->1] (#1291)
> sanderidge votes Trebek [->3] (#1303)*
> 
> 
> *Trebek has died. They were a Snom.
> 
> Night 4 Begins. It will end in 24 hours.*​
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Pings
> 
> 
> 
> @JuliaTheSeaTurtleQueen
> @Mist1422
> @Bluwiikoon
> @sanderidge
> @Ysabel
> @mewtini
> @Trebek
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Game Summary
> 
> 
> 
> *N0
> 
> D1*
> Mr. Ultracool has died. They were a *Snom*.
> 
> *N1*
> kokorico has died. E was a *Snom*.
> 
> *D2*
> M Plus 7 has died. She was a *Snom*.
> Superjolt has died. They were a *Zorua*.
> 
> *N2*
> Keldeo has died. They were a *Snom*.
> kyeugh has died. They were a *Snom*.
> 
> *D3*
> Trebek has died. They were a *Snom*.


----------



## Ys_

Fudge posted early. But note how Blu never voted? And the only time he did, it was for someone who clearly wasn't going to get lynched. 

VS Sande who did try to vote every time. And their reason for voting for Mr Ultracool was they didn't remember any post from him (he never did post, so.)
And their reasoning for voting Mist was Mist seeming sus. Which at least other people did, too. And again, if Sande was mafia, I would have thought they would have voted for Mist right after I did, and not when I unvoted. And then they did an ISO of Trebek, noting that a mafia wouldn't just give up.

In this situation, I'm unsure that a mafia would try to make a case against an already established snom train. And meanwhile, Blu just posted a couple of reasons why Sande may be mafia but then never answered Sande's argument or question or my question about it. And Blu never attempted to convince us that Ryan was town, which he could have done.

And Blu proceeded to say 'I trust the SS club' but a couple of posts before that, expressed some (even if slight) hesitation about me. And then, after I questioned him about it, he never replied.

(now I'm glad we have a day that lasts 48 hours ^^')


----------



## Ys_

I mean, he didn't answer my comment about me being cleared.

To be fair I never did ask any questions, but I did make some comments about why I was sure Sande was town.

And Blu never explained why he shot Skylar other than 'whoops, my bad, sorry'


----------



## Bluwiikoon

I can try to answer questions!  I guess a big issue is that it's been better for my brain feelings to not be very hands-on about the game, so as a result I've kept sleeping through EoDs and missing the wagons.

Before the nature of the Club came to light I was kind of using my non-voting as bait so that the wolves would think I had a power role and come after me instead of anyone actually useful. >:) But... If they knew I was VT all along, I guess that didn't work very well. This is also why I was specific about only having one bullet in the gun, because they could always think I'm bluffing and that I could vig again the next night.

I had a PoE post on the day before I shot kyeugh with all my projected green clears. I was cross referencing that with the boys history to see whom seemed the most suspicious to me, and kyeugh's non voting stuck out to me, as well as Keldeo's vote on a confirmed green flip. Mist was all but confirmed innocent to me because of their vote on Superjolt (who later flipped red), and then there was Sande who I wanted to leave as a last resort along with Julia because Sande just seems so earnest. I was putting my full trust in the Club clears!  And I felt like putting my weight behind defending Trebek yesterDay would only serve to make both of us look more wolfy. I have a hard time arguing with people, and that's unfortunate.  I've never felt like I'm very convincing at making points

Will uhhhh check more to see if there's more stuff you asked! Tfw mobile keyboard blocks out half the screen LOL


----------



## Bluwiikoon

Bluwiikoon said:


> I was cross referencing that with the boys history


The VOTE history!!! Good lord my autocorrect


----------



## Bluwiikoon

Honestly? Mafia is hard work and my brain only runs on 1MB processing power


----------



## Ys_

Oh, all right, I guess that seems fair. 
But what do you think about Sande besides PoE?


----------



## Ys_

See. If I was mafia I would just know what to do and not be in a constant self-doubt my gosh


----------



## Ys_

@Seshas when mylo or lylo happen do popularity changes count the night before? Or just on the day of mylo/lylo?

*Unvote*


----------



## Zori

*Popularity is always tracked and in effect.
Only some of the effects of popularity are disabled in MyLo/LyLo.*


----------



## Ys_

Thanks!! 

*Vote Sanderidge*

Gosh. Now I know the concept of being pocketed.


----------



## Zori

_Votecount (#1385):_
*sanderidge* | 2 | Bluwiikoon (#1334), Ysabel (#1384)
Bluwiikoon | 1 | sanderidge (#1347)



Spoiler: Vote History



*Bluwiikoon votes sanderidge [->1] (#1334)*
Ysabel votes Bluwiikoon [->1] (#1337)
*sanderidge votes Bluwiikoon [->2] (#1347)*
Ysabel unvotes Bluwiikoon [1->] (#1382)
*Ysabel votes sanderidge [->2] (#1384)*


----------



## IndigoClaudia

I'm back and i now have a new computer. It's my dad's birthday so i will not be able to write flavor text. I'm sorry!


----------



## mewtini

wtf is today EoD


----------



## mewtini

oh my god phew no it is not


----------



## mewtini

i'm ngl i kind of have just lost motivation/will likely not be posting much of substance throughout the rest of the Day, and would be willing to dayskip if anyone else is

*bluwiikoon*


----------



## Ys_

No, it's tomorrow


----------



## mewtini

mewtini said:


> anyone else is


well, "everyone," actually


----------



## Ys_

Fair enough. But I'll just say this: Sande said they checked you at night and according to popularity things they shouldn't have been able to.

 And things Seshas said/implied but that's not here nor there

So eh. I guess a moral tie may be fair.


----------



## sanderidge

i'd be down to dayskip! i have also kind of lost motivation - i think my brain is latching onto fire emblem again and doesn't have much leftover bandwidth for, uh, anything else. and i'm looking forward to reading tarot mafia...!


----------



## sanderidge

i kind of don't want to put more effort into this game than i have already :'D


----------



## Ys_

*skip day *
Sigh. Why not just make this official.


----------



## mewtini

i think we’re just waiting on @Bluwiikoon


----------



## Zori

_Votecount (#1385):_
*sanderidge* | 2 | Bluwiikoon (#1334), Ysabel* (#1384)
*Bluwiikoon* | 2 | sanderidge (#1347), mewtini (#1389)



Spoiler: Vote History



*Bluwiikoon votes sanderidge [->1] (#1334)*
Ysabel votes Bluwiikoon [->1] (#1337)
*sanderidge votes Bluwiikoon [->2] (#1347)*
Ysabel unvotes Bluwiikoon [1->] (#1382)
*Ysabel votes sanderidge [->2] (#1384)
mewtini votes Bluwiikoon [->2] (#1389)*


Dayskips must be bolded in order to count.


----------



## sanderidge

*dayskip* :O


----------



## mewtini

*dayskip*


----------



## Ys_

Want to know something funny? I don't think I've ever been killed or lynched early in the games I've played


----------



## Ys_

Or, we'll, there was one game where my two bffs were mafia in a small game and they did kill me on n1 but then the game died.. ^^` funnily enough I did suspect one of the before dying but I foolishly didn't say anything. Good times though :)


----------



## Ys_

Well, closest friends at the time, at least


----------



## Bluwiikoon

Oops sorry for not existing for a while!! ;O; If this is the end and both sande and I are town then GG everyone ^^;

*Skip day *
@Seshas


----------



## Zori

*Well this is awkward
Technically, since Julia can decide the wagon, technically they need to send their dayskip confirmation for day to end
which probably isn't happening*


----------



## Bluwiikoon

That really is awkward!! Gosh...

Catch you all in uhhhh 5.3 hours? ^^;


----------



## Ys_

Oh, well. That's what happens when I let myself get carried away. :c should have trusted the SS more...


----------



## Ys_

I'm not sad, though. I had a lot of fun! Whichever the result. See ya in EoD :)


----------



## Eifie

I'm just posting to collect my dailies

popularity and power get


----------



## Zori

End of Day will probably be a little late because lunch


----------



## IndigoClaudia

Actually not to fear! I'm here for 40 minutes!


----------



## Zori

_Votecount (#1411):_
*sanderidge* | 2 | Bluwiikoon* (#1334), Ysabel* (#1384)
*Bluwiikoon* | 2 | sanderidge* (#1347), mewtini* (#1389)



Spoiler: Vote History



*Bluwiikoon votes sanderidge [->1] (#1334)*
Ysabel votes Bluwiikoon [->1] (#1337)
*sanderidge votes Bluwiikoon [->2] (#1347)*
Ysabel unvotes Bluwiikoon [1->] (#1382)
*Ysabel votes sanderidge [->2] (#1384)
mewtini votes Bluwiikoon [->2] (#1389)*


----------



## IndigoClaudia

DUN DUN DUN! A tie! 

DICE WILL BE ROLLED!!


----------



## IndigoClaudia

Ok everybody... It's either blu or sande.


----------



## IndigoClaudia

ok here goes.


----------



## IndigoClaudia

Spelled name wrong... but


----------



## IndigoClaudia

Whew... the snoms drag blue to the stabby thing, and seshas, the high snom who cannot be killed, suddenly shapeshifts into a zorua and kills EVERYONE.


*BLU WAS INNOCENT!* The mafia now greatly outnumber town and are shortly able to drive all snoms off to the freezing route 9.

*MAFIA WINS!*

I'll post some game related stuff in a bit here. Good game everyone, and i'm sorry if i wasn't here the last few days.


----------



## Novae

I don't really have much to say other than mewtini goat


----------



## IndigoClaudia

she fooled us all


----------



## Zori

ok here
stuff soon


----------



## qenya

oh thank god we can talk again

those last few days were excruciating to watch

agree with mist, super well played mewt! the deepest of deepwolves


----------



## mewtini

i'm SO SORRY to everyone, i'll write a wall post tarot EoD


----------



## IndigoClaudia

Ok i guess me and seshas can reveal the setup... but first lunch


----------



## Zori

*The Zoruas have seized control of Chichester Bridge. They have won.*
*The Snoms failed to defend their livelihoods. They have lost.*
*Kyeugh failed to throw a confetti party for everyone. She has lost.*​
*Superjolt - Zorua Musician* - Popularity Manipulator
*mewtini - Incognito Zorua* - Rolecop
*sanderidge - Zorua Snombomb* - Modified Terrorist

*kokorico - Snom Paranoid Private Eye* - Cop | Popularity <= 0
*Keldeo - Camouflage Snom* - Tracker
*M Plus 7 - Snom with Knife* - Babysitter | Popularity >= 0
*JuliaTheSeaTurtleQueen - Edgy Snom* - Vigilante | Popularity < 0
*Bluwiikoon - Normal Snom*
*Mr. Ultracool - Normal Snom
Ysabel - Normal Snom
Trebek - Normal Snom*
*Mist1422 - Normal Snom*

*kyeugh - Confetti Snom *- Modified Jester

Rolecards soonTM


----------



## Ys_

omg there was even a post where I said 'if mewtini or Sande are mafia kudos to them' but I can't find it now
GG tbh


----------



## Trebek

pretty sure it got quoted in deadchat tbhtbh


----------



## Zori

*Rolecards:*


Spoiler: kokorico



*Snom Paranoid Private Eye*
_Town-aligned_

_Ability: Hardcore Investigator_
Each Night, you may snoop around a players residence with your magnifying glass.
You will learn whether or not they are aligned with the *Mafia*.

Being thoroughly paranoid, all players with *popularity* greater than 0 will appear to you as *Mafia*.

You win when all *Mafia*-aligned Snoms are dead.



~~~


Spoiler: Keldeo



*Camouflage Snom*
_Town-aligned_

_Ability: You Can't See Me!_
Each Night, you may follow a Snom, wearing your rock costume.
You will learn who they visit, if anyone.

You win when all *Mafia*-aligned players are dead.



~~~


Spoiler: M Plus 7



*Snom with Knife*
_Town-aligned_

_Ability: Knife not for Stabbing_
Each Night, you may guard another Snom's house.
They will be protected from all attacks.
However, if you are attacked, your target will die in the ensuing knife fight.

Due to peer pressure, you can only target Snoms with *popularity* greater than or equal to 0.
If you target a Snom with negative *popularity*, your visit will fail.

You win when all *Mafia*-aligned Snoms are dead.



~~~


Spoiler: JuliaTheSeaTurtleQueen



*Edgy Snom*
_Town-aligned_

_Ability: Edgy Glare_
Each Night (except Night 0), you may glare daggers (read: stab) another Snom.
They will die.

Although you are edgy, you still pay some heed to social constructs. You can only target Snoms with *popularity* less than 0.
If you target a Snom with positive or 0 *popularity*, your visit will fail.

You win when all *Mafia*-aligned Snoms are dead.



~~~


Spoiler: Bluwiikoon/Mr. Ultracool/Ysabel/Trebek/Mist1422



*Normal Snom*
_Town-aligned_

_Ability: None_
But that never stopped anyone from being cool! You can still vote to stab people during the day and peer pressure people with negative popularity!

You win when all *Mafia*-aligned Snoms are dead.



~~~


Spoiler: Superjolt



*Zorua Musician*
_Mafia-aligned_

_Ability: Hey Now, You're a Rock Star_
Being a master of disguise comes with a charming voice!
Each Night, you can write a pop song about a Snom. Their *popularity* will be increased by 1.
Alternatively, you can drop a diss track on a Snom. Their *popularity* will be decreased by 1.

You win when all non *Mafia*-aligned Snoms are dead, or nothing can stop this from happening.



~~~


Spoiler: mewtini



*Incognito Zorua*
_Mafia-aligned_

_Ability: International Pokemon of Mystery_
Each night, you may tail a player extremely sneakily (with your fedora and sunglasses on, of course).
You will receive their rolecard.

You win when all non *Mafia*-aligned Snoms are dead, or nothing can stop this from happening.



~~~


Spoiler: sanderidge



*Zorua Snombomb*
_Mafia-aligned_

_Ability: Snom go BOOM_
Once, during the Day, you may use one of your far too many bombs to blow up a Snom, killing them.
Since this is really not a cool thing to do, your *popularity* will be decreased by 2.

You win when all non *Mafia*-aligned Snoms are dead, or nothing can stop this from happening.


~~~


Spoiler: kyeugh



*Conetti Snom*
_Self-aligned

Ability: Parteeeeeeeeeee!!!_
Your hard and resilient shell secretly hides a blast of confetti!
If you are voted out, the confetti will get released causing all Snoms to gain 2 *popularity*, up to a maximum of 2, whether they voted for you or not!

If you are killed in any other way, the confetti will be released on your killer, raising their *popularity* by too.
You will be very sad, however, because you didn't get to throw a big party for everyone.

Due to your well organized party stash, you will know whenever someone peeks in (sees your role).

You win if and only if you are voted out.


----------



## IndigoClaudia

i'm sure it did lol


----------



## IndigoClaudia

Seshas said:


> ~~~
> *Camouflage Snom*
> _Town-aligned_
> 
> _Ability: You Can't See Me!_
> Each Night, you may follow a Snom, wearing your rock costume.
> You will learn who they visit, if anyone.
> 
> You win when all *Mafia*-aligned players are dead.


The reason for the rock


----------



## Trebek

SO THATS WHAT THE ROCK WAS ADLENDKSKSLS


----------



## IndigoClaudia

It was keldeo, who kept leaving it all over the place. I was gonna do the same with some other roles, but i just couldn't seem to do it naturally.


----------



## qenya

I'm kind of curious what the fakeclaims you offered to the mafia were!


----------



## Novae

ok so who gave blu the gun then

compensation for the vig disappearing?


----------



## IndigoClaudia

Yes. Yes indeed.


----------



## IndigoClaudia

kokorico said:


> I'm kind of curious what the fakeclaims you offered to the mafia were!


oh oh oh! lemme send those!


----------



## Trebek

“
You can still vote to stab people during the day and peer pressure people with negative popularity!
This also means you can *choose your calling in life* instead of getting it handed to you in your rolecard.”

i will forever be haunted by this


----------



## Zori

*Night 0:*
Kokorico checks Keldeo (Not Mafia)
Keldeo tracks Kokorico (->Keldeo)

Superjolt lowers Kyeugh's popularity
Mewtini rolecops Kyeugh (Confetti Snom)

*Night 1:*
Kokorico checks M Plus 7 (Not Mafia)
Keldeo tracks Ysabel (->nowhere)
M Plus 7 protects Mist1422

Superjolt raises Ysabel's popularity
Mewtini rolecops Ysabel (Normal Snom)
Sanderidge kills Kokorico

*Day 2:*
Sanderidge kills M Plus 7

*Night 2:*
Bluwiikoon is given gun as compensation for Julia not submitting any actions.

Keldeo tracks Sanderidge (->Keldeo)
Bluwiikoon kills Kyeugh (gets +2 popularity)

Mewtini rolecops Mist1422 (Normal Snom)
Sanderidge kills Keldeo

*Night 3:*
Mewtini rolecops Julia (Edgy Snom)
Sanderidge kills Mist1422


----------



## IndigoClaudia

Seshas said:


> The following power roles could reasonably be in the game but are not and are safe for you to claim:
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Snom Cop | Naive
> 
> 
> 
> *Snom Naive Cop*
> _Town-aligned
> 
> Ability: Kindly Please?_
> Each Night, you may interrogate (read: politely ask) a player.
> You will learn whether or not they are aligned with the *Mafia*.
> 
> Being as naive as you are, all players with *popularity* less than 0 will appear to you as *Mafia*.
> 
> You win when all *Mafia*-aligned Snoms are dead.
> 
> 
> 
> ~~~
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Snom Knife Confiscator
> 
> 
> 
> *Snom Knife Confiscator*
> _Town-aligned
> 
> Ability: Dummy Large Metal Detector_
> Each Night, you may search a Snom's house for knives.
> You will learn whether they have a knife (are able to kill).
> Snoms that have already killed will hide their knives too well for you to find them.
> 
> You win when all *Mafia*-aligned Snoms are dead.
> 
> 
> 
> ~~~
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Rich Snom
> 
> 
> 
> *Rich Snom*
> _Town-aligned
> 
> Ability: Definitely not Bribery or Anything_
> Each Night, you may bribe _encourage_ a Snom to avoid another one.
> You will grant them 1 popularity point, and all actions preformed by them on your second target will fail for the rest of the game.
> 
> This no longer applies to the *Mafia* factional kill when there is only one *Mafia* alive.
> 
> You win when all *Mafia*-aligned Snoms are dead.
> 
> 
> 
> ~~~
> 
> Additionally, it is safe to claim Normal Snom (Vanilla Townie).
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Normal Snom
> 
> 
> 
> *Normal Snom*
> _Town-aligned
> 
> Ability: None_
> But that never stopped anyone from being cool! You can still vote to stab people during the day and peer pressure people with negative popularity!
> This also means you can choose your calling in life instead of getting it handed to you in your rolecard.
> 
> You win when all *Mafia*-aligned Snoms are dead.
> 
> 
> 
> The factional kill is performed by a specific player and can be tracked and roleblocked.
> You may not preform the factional kill on N0.


----------



## IndigoClaudia

Rich snom was gonna be a real role at one point and should have stayed in the game imao but it made the game unbalanced.


----------



## Bluwiikoon

I may have been a Vanilla snom... and a dumbass... but yO THAT POPULARITY SCORE THOUGH


----------



## Bluwiikoon

Send me into space, my dearest kyeugh

I am ready


----------



## Zori

Fun fact:
At the end of the game, sande had a popularity of *-5*.


----------



## Ys_

So those strikethroughs....


----------



## Bluwiikoon

If only popularity existed on the final day!

However, I still would have gotten pocketed by mewtini...


----------



## Zori

Ysabel said:


> So those strikethroughs....


to this day I have no idea what happened with those
I'm pretty sure they were just random lul


----------



## Bluwiikoon

Xenforo formatting!


----------



## sanderidge

I'M STILL REALLY PROUD OF MYSELF EXCEPT FOR THE ONE MISTAKE WHERE I FORGOT POPULARITY STOPS ACTIONS AT -2 
i'd been at or below -2 for most of the game so i'd been lying without need to think about that and then the LAST day i messed it up 
it was really fun though :D


----------



## Ys_

Seshas said:


> Ysabel said:
> 
> 
> 
> So derp question but the mafia chat is always open then?! I assumed it wasn't.
> 
> 
> 
> classic
Click to expand...

Haha ^^'


kokorico said:


> Ysabel said:
> 
> 
> 
> But why do you think you're a naive cop?
> So do you think one of your checks was wrong?
Click to expand...

I could have been onto something yeah, but the tone omg. 


Mawile said:


> Ysabel said:
> 
> 
> 
> Also if either mewtini or sanderidge are mafia then kudos to them heh.
> 
> 
> 
> alksjlkdjlkfjLKAJLKFJKLJKJSLD
Click to expand...

Yes


Seshas said:


> If Mafia didn't buff Ysabel's popularity, Sande would have been yeeted instead


oof


kokorico said:


> Mawile said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ysabel said:
> 
> 
> 
> You should have killed me when you had the chance, and you shouldn't have wasted that bullet on Skylar.
> 
> 
> 
> what is going on
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> If she's fishing for reactions, that implies she thinks there's an active wolf outside {sanderidge, Julia}, which is hopeful!
Click to expand...

Nope. I'm just a doofus who jumps to conclusions


----------



## kyeugh

Seshas said:


> Bluwiikoon is given gun as compensation for Julia not submitting any actions.
> ...
> Bluwiikoon kills Kyeugh (gets +2 popularity)





Bluwiikoon said:


> Send me into space, my dearest kyeugh
> 
> I am ready








fr though it's ok, honestly it means i was pretty close to winning, i just didn't think the dying part would happen overnight :'D


----------



## Zori

post here/PM me if you want in to graveyard chat


----------



## mewtini

ok! short wall time!

this game was super fun, ty emmy/seshas for running it, i hope it was at least enjoyable for y'all to watch me flail in scumchat :D i found out that ... i have a really guilty conscience and that i hate wolfing/felt so bad about worming my way into towncore with a bad rolecard lol. but mad props to sande for keeping me sane through all that (ps their strategizing ... it knows no bounds. seriously. and their pocketing skills,)

blu is the fucking GOAT, i was so stunned by his growth between cats and this game and his intuition was clearly on point wrt sande. seriously what a king. also gg to skylar for paranoia reading me correctly

also while i am sorry to everyone, i am especially sorry to ysabel tbh. when you asked me "are you doing ok?" post-trebek flip, my heart sank ;_____;. i am really glad you finally made your way into a tcod game, i hope we play together again soon!!! hopefully not as w/v tbh.

obligatory F for mp7, who i was so excited to see in 100% action at last, and i'm sorry to king keldeo for killing him on his birthday :'D

tl;dr love you all xoxo


----------



## mewtini

this was my First Ever Wolfgame and i am kind of glad it happened here with a supportive scumbuddy and a kind roster lol


----------



## Zori

Oh yeah
ty for playing
this game had its hiccups, but it ran *considerably* smoother than the other games I've run in the past, so that's good


----------



## Bluwiikoon

Bluwiikoon said:


> If mewtini is mafia I will feel so


----------



## Bluwiikoon

Thank you mewtini for validating me omg!!!  I feel like you guys played really well because I was honestly still stanning up until you voted me


----------



## mewtini

blu you were like. actually on fire. i'm kind of scared to see you as mafia now, i thought you were great in cats too obviously but i was fr blown away here. i felt so bad betraying my king :'D


----------



## Keldeo

gg everyone, I had a good time! Congrats mafia, and thanks Emmy and Seshas for hosting! o/


----------



## Ys_

I'm not mad fam ^^ it just means I still have a lot to learn <3
And not let myself be pocketed by fluffy marshmallows


----------



## Ys_

Aka sandsnoms


----------



## Ys_

Um can I be added to mafia chat pls? :o


----------



## Zori

Mafia chat isn't usually shared on this site. Either that or the game hosts don't like me D:


----------



## Eifie

so how much popularity did I have at the end of the game


----------



## Bluwiikoon

+12 tbh


----------



## qenya

Seshas said:


> Oh yeah
> ty for playing
> this game had its hiccups, but it ran *considerably* smoother than the other games I've run in the past, so that's good


good god, what the hell happened in your other games :P


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## Zori

kokorico said:


> good god, what the hell happened in your other games :P


Example:
Step 1: Rand self-alligned serial killer
Step 2: Claim that you are self-aligned serial killer
Step 3: Get yeeted D1
Step 4: Replace into the game on an alt D2
Step 5: Get booted because the hosts find out
Step 6: Ask someone in the game if you could borrow their account
Step 7: Get booted a third time
Step 8: ???
Step 9: Profit

While all this was going on a game was being played ig, involving a bodyguard which claimed cop with a fake red and got their check and themselves yeeted D2 and D3


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## Trebek

Seshas said:


> kokorico said:
> 
> 
> 
> good god, what the hell happened in your other games :P
> 
> 
> 
> Example:
> Step 1: Rand self-alligned serial killer
> Step 2: Claim that you are self-aligned serial killer
> Step 3: Get yeeted D1
> Step 4: Replace into the game on an alt D2
> Step 5: Get booted because the hosts find out
> Step 6: Ask someone in the game if you could borrow their account
> Step 7: Get booted a third time
> Step 8: ???
> Step 9: Profit
> 
> While all this was going on a game was being played ig, involving a bodyguard which claimed cop with a fake red and got their check and themselves yeeted D2 and D3
Click to expand...

this sounds like an unranked town of salem match ngl

you hate to see it


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## Novae

(step 8 was post the mafia team then get permanently banned from the site for those curious)


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## qenya

I have no words, that sounds like a nightmare :o


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## Ys_

Actually, I _am _mad. At myself. Lol.
Didn't say it before but sorry town.
Gonna watch more games now instead of playing. And yeah oof, that game sounds like it must have been painful to watch.. But eh, no game is perfect imo.


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## Bluwiikoon

Ysabel you did great!!! I felt like you were a really strong player


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## mewtini

Ysabel said:


> Actually, I _am _mad. At myself. Lol.
> Didn't say it before but sorry town.
> Gonna watch more games now instead of playing. And yeah oof, that game sounds like it must have been painful to watch.. But eh, no game is perfect imo.


omg dude, no, you were great!!! i feel like everyone gets pocketed eventually tbh (i got incredibly screwed over the last two games i played here because of that) and tbqh you were really strong here, i so hope you keep playing :’))


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## Ys_

Thanks guys ^^ you two (and everyone really) are great! And I'll be fine :3 I just need to focus more in RL for now
But I do think that I could learn more from watching, though, at least for a while Especially since I'm really used to the traditional format and the games here are certainly not :o


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## Eifie

lol whatcha talking about, the entire active town voted correctly at final 5 and lost to a rand because one villager was afk

town did nothing wrong there!


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## Ys_

Well, either way, I'm taking this game as a learning experience :)


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