# Ultra Beatdown



## Vyraura (Aug 25, 2008)

is amazing. And I feel obligated to post a bulletin announcing it. It's the new Dragonforce album, if you're unenlightened.


----------



## Altmer (Aug 25, 2008)

oh my god where would we be without the endless dragonforce solos!~

(not heard it yet)


----------



## Vyraura (Aug 25, 2008)

hey
those solos are superfuckingawesome. if you're good at something might as well use it.


----------



## Morbid (Aug 25, 2008)

Only heard one song on the Terrorizer sample CD and that was a bit boring, can't reallycomment on the album as a whole but if the rest of it goes by the usual Dragonforce sound then it's not gonna be something I'll enjoy listening to. I can't stand power metal and I dislike pointless wankery, so Dragonforce were never really going to be the band for me.


----------



## Altmer (Aug 26, 2008)

Vyraura said:


> hey
> those solos are superfuckingawesome. if you're good at something might as well use it.


tbqh mindless shred doesn't really tickle my fancy and there are much better technical players with restraint out there


----------



## Furretsu (Aug 26, 2008)

I listened to a DragonForce song once, so I heard this whole album already.


----------



## Morbid (Aug 26, 2008)

Furretsu said:


> I listened to a DragonForce song once, so I heard this whole album already.


xD


----------



## Altmer (Aug 27, 2008)

the sad fact is that dragonforce are such awful songwriters that it's true


----------



## Vyraura (Aug 28, 2008)

I blame sam totman for that

he's kind of an idiot, he needs to go back to black metal. (he writes all the music and lyrics and everything)

edit: I could say the same for angelspit and a good 50-75% of the bands out there


----------



## Altmer (Aug 28, 2008)

sam is just fucking drunk off his arse all the time, can't blame the dude

and black metal is worse than power metal


----------



## Furretsu (Aug 28, 2008)

oh wow it is? i haven't heard any black metal before but i find it hard to believe it's worse than power metal


----------



## Morbid (Aug 28, 2008)

Black metal is amazing, if you think it's shit you're listening to the wrong bands. Not all black metal bands sound like Darkthrone. Try Akercocke, Anaal Nathrakh, Axis Of Perdition, Emperor, Enslaved, Satyricon, Watain, all good shit with decent production (at least on the more recent albums for some of them). I also love the blasty stuff like Gorgoroth, Marduk and 1349 but that can be a bit extreme for most people.

Sam Totman usually comes off as a bit of a dick in interviews though I've never met him so I dunno lol.


----------



## Alaphlosiam (Aug 28, 2008)

Altmer said:


> and black metal is worse than power metal


Holy fucking shit, I lol'd


----------



## Vyraura (Aug 29, 2008)

Furretsu said:


> oh wow it is? i haven't heard any black metal before but i find it hard to believe it's worse than power metal


dont worry it's not as bad as electronic


----------



## Furretsu (Aug 29, 2008)

Vyraura said:


> dont worry it's not as bad as electronic


"electronic" is about as vague as "rock"

also you are a moron


----------



## Altmer (Aug 29, 2008)

Morbid said:


> Black metal is amazing, if you think it's shit you're listening to the wrong bands. Not all black metal bands sound like Darkthrone. Try Akercocke, Anaal Nathrakh, Axis Of Perdition, Emperor, Enslaved, Satyricon, Watain, all good shit with decent production (at least on the more recent albums for some of them). I also love the blasty stuff like Gorgoroth, Marduk and 1349 but that can be a bit extreme for most people.
> 
> Sam Totman usually comes off as a bit of a dick in interviews though I've never met him so I dunno lol.


black metal wears corpsepaint

granted power metal has swords but at least that is manly


----------



## Morbid (Aug 29, 2008)

Altmer said:


> black metal wears corpsepaint
> 
> granted power metal has swords but at least that is manly


Oh you were talking about the manliness, I assumed you were comparing their musicial qualities, soz haha. In that case black metal's pretty gay too, though going a bit far saying it's worse than power metal. tbh both of them pretty much tie for the honour of being the genre of music least likely to get you laid.


----------



## Altmer (Aug 29, 2008)

well tbh power metal suits my taste more, i like some black metal but most of it is generic and crappy.

emperor, enslaved, some burzum, old dimmu (if you can call that black), agalloch, wolves in the throne room all rule though

i just like power metal more personally.


----------



## Music Dragon (Aug 29, 2008)

Furretsu said:


> I listened to a DragonForce song once, so I heard this whole album already.


Too true.


----------



## Morbid (Aug 29, 2008)

Altmer said:


> well tbh power metal suits my taste more, i like some black metal but most of it is generic and crappy.
> 
> emperor, enslaved, some burzum, old dimmu (if you can call that black), agalloch, wolves in the throne room all rule though
> 
> i just like power metal more personally.


Fair enough. The black metal bands you mentioned are all decent, old Dimmu is pretty good.


----------



## Vyraura (Aug 29, 2008)

Furretsu said:


> "electronic" is about as vague as "rock"
> 
> also you are a moron


all angelspit songs sound the same 
prove me wrong


----------



## Morbid (Aug 29, 2008)

Vyraura said:


> all angelspit songs sound the same
> prove me wrong


There's more than one electronic artist.


----------



## Vyraura (Aug 29, 2008)

yes quite aware of that. but I'm trying to piss AK off and he's obsessed with them.


----------



## Furretsu (Aug 29, 2008)

Vyraura said:


> all angelspit songs sound the same
> prove me wrong


angelspit is industrial with electronic influence
and how exactly am i supposed to prove you wrong? if you're so stupid that you believe that all of their tracks are the same thing there isn't a hell of a lot i can do for you


----------



## Vyraura (Aug 29, 2008)

dragonforce is power metal to the extreme
and how exactly am i supposed to prove you wrong? if you're so stupid that you believe that all of their tracks are the same thing there isn't a hell of a lot i can do for you



what


----------



## Altmer (Aug 29, 2008)

The issue is that DF tracks really are the epitome of copypasta


----------



## Vyraura (Aug 29, 2008)

not if you listen to them more than once. 
besides the genre they want to write doesn't have a lot of room for difference if they want to stay in the same genre (unlike say Sonata Arctica) but to say that they actually all sound the same just shows that you don't actually know what you're talking about.

now if you said they were all the same type of power metal that would make sense because they are, but I can tell the difference between every single song by them easily. because I've actually heard all of them.


----------



## Altmer (Aug 30, 2008)

I've heard two full albums MORE THAN THREE TIMES and I honestly still can't tell the difference.


----------



## Ether's Bane (Aug 30, 2008)

Altmer said:


> The issue is that DF tracks really are the epitome of copypasta


Can you honestly say that this and this sound the same?

Back on topic, yeah, I've heard two of the songs, and it sounds awesome, though not quite as awesome as Inhuman Rampage.


----------



## Altmer (Aug 30, 2008)

yes, I can

here look I did it

it sounds the same


----------



## Vyraura (Aug 30, 2008)

altmer has no argument 
please stop posting

rock-ground how can you say that :( 
Inhuman Rampage has Body Breakdown, TTaF and Train of Broken Hearts and I don't like those songs. Though I guess you might so then yeah, the others are nice.


----------



## Music Dragon (Aug 30, 2008)

What do you mean, argument?

_All DragonForce songs sound the same. This is fact._


----------



## Altmer (Aug 30, 2008)

ok

here's the music theory argument of my case

listen to every dragonforce song that you know, except the ballads, they follow this format

"intro with keyboard shit"
-very fast intro riff with double bass drumming
-verses
-maybe a solo to lead into the chorus, or the guitars playing a lead melody or something
-chorus with falsetto vocals about slaying dragons
-more verses
-more chorus
-long guitar solo with dweedly bits and keyboards and then they DUEL and copy each other's guitar lines
-chorus (sometimes x2 if they are feeling good)
-outro solo or no outro solo

the ballads have that at 0.5x the tempo

go and look at the lyrics booklet and the song layouts and you'll see all of it is formatted in that way, except the songs are a little longer because the solos are longer correspondingly

they use some small variations in melody which is why after close listening you can tell some songs apart, but every song adheres to that writing formula.


----------



## Vyraura (Aug 30, 2008)

that describes /quite/ a few bands, nor is it entirely accurate
it kind of works for most of Inhuman Rampage, but that's about it sorry


----------



## Alaphlosiam (Aug 31, 2008)

The argument about how similar DF songs sound is a matter of how much you actually listen to the band. For those of us that honestly don't give a shit, we'll stick with "one song, several titles". Lamb of God are the same: I, being a fan, can tell (most) songs apart; however, if someone listened to _New American Gospel_, he/she would probably ask me why the opening song to the album is so damn long.


----------



## Furretsu (Aug 31, 2008)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OxobzOCEjoI


----------



## Altmer (Aug 31, 2008)

Vyraura said:


> that describes /quite/ a few bands, nor is it entirely accurate
> it kind of works for most of Inhuman Rampage, but that's about it sorry


It works for valley of the damned too and I actually like that album

and you know power metal is fucking formulaic right?


----------



## Cryssie (Aug 31, 2008)

Meh. Okay, so I've been reading this thread for a while and almost can't be bothered to post, but I might as well...

I've given the new album a listen and I really don't find it to be anything special. They've barely changed in four albums and while formulaic songs can work - as Altmer said, power metal is kinda formulaic, but that doesn't mean you can't appreciate a mindlessly energetic song for what it is when you're in the right mindset, generic or not, because sometimes people just don't _feel_ like anything more complex - I do think that they are getting too stagnant and desperately need a fresh approach (which I doubt will ever happen, but hey).

But while there may be a similar quite valid point buried in your witty posts somewhere, you are going to start arguments if you're spitting caustic criticism along with it. I mean, would you take such dismissive criticism of an artist _you_ liked lying down?


----------



## Altmer (Aug 31, 2008)

well it's DF

DF wouldn't stop writing the music they do I mean come on they are DragonForce, they're kinda like Iron Maiden in that sense

the problem is DragonForce just kinda suck at what they do



> as Altmer said, power metal is kinda formulaic, but that doesn't mean you can't appreciate a mindlessly energetic song for what it is when you're in the right mindset, generic or not, because sometimes people just don't feel like anything more complex - I do think that they are getting too stagnant and desperately need a fresh approach (which I doubt will ever happen, but hey).


I appreciate energetic songs but this is like a 60 minute bout of hyperspeed music i mean whoa nelly think of your testosterone



> that describes /quite/ a few bands, nor is it entirely accurate
> it kind of works for most of Inhuman Rampage, but that's about it sorry


SOMETIMES WE PUT THE CHORUS IN FIRST

OR WE HAVE MORE BRIDGES

OR MORE SOLOS AND MORE HIGH VOCALS AND MORE DOUBLE BASS

ARENT WE EPIC +20 DRAGONSLAYING SKILLS

also I listened to this album too and fuck the melodies are limp like they've run out of energy or something

i mean

the melody to some of the shit on valley of the damned was at least cool, but this is exceedingly gay and the melodies aren't even that worthy of being sung along

my penis shrinks listening to dragonforce :(


----------



## Morbid (Aug 31, 2008)

Alaphlosiam said:


> The argument about how similar DF songs sound is a matter of how much you actually listen to the band. For those of us that honestly don't give a shit, we'll stick with "one song, several titles". Lamb of God are the same: I, being a fan, can tell (most) songs apart; however, if someone listened to _New American Gospel_, he/she would probably ask me why the opening song to the album is so damn long.


That's an apt comparison because New American Gospel is shit as is Inhuman Rampage. Actually Inhuman Rampage is more enjoyable. Sacrament is the best LoG album yo :)


----------



## Vyraura (Aug 31, 2008)

Altmer you can't claim that a genre is formulaic and then say a band is bad for being formulaic. That's the only reason why I like it, I happen to like the power metal formula more than most other music so why the hell do I not want 20+ variations on it. All rap sounds exactly the same to me but you see literally hundreds of 'different' rap artists. If someone just _loves_ rap then they most likely will see total differences in the songs despite anyone else saying that it is a slightly different beat with someone talking different lyrics of the exact same nature and style. 

Also claiming they suck at what they do is /totally/ different than saying you hate the genre and there is certainly no lack of skill (excluding lecklerc what'shisface and totman's lack of creativity) in the band. Nor am I going to be a dick and claim that they are the most skilled ever, because anyone doing that is arrogant and faggoty and I hate it :(

also herman li specifically stated that he doesn't want to change the way the band is doing it because the whole point of being a superniche genre is that you are, in fact, something a lot of people might not like. 

fucking guitar hero


----------



## Altmer (Sep 1, 2008)

Vyraura said:


> Altmer you can't claim that a genre is formulaic and then say a band is bad for being formulaic. That's the only reason why I like it, I happen to like the power metal formula more than most other music so why the hell do I not want 20+ variations on it. All rap sounds exactly the same to me but you see literally hundreds of 'different' rap artists. If someone just _loves_ rap then they most likely will see total differences in the songs despite anyone else saying that it is a slightly different beat with someone talking different lyrics of the exact same nature and style.


You can like it. The album is good if you like 30 variations on the same thing. However, I value a bit more originality in what I listen to...? And you do know most power metal is pretty awful right? Dragonforce is just ONE of the bands in this style that do the same thing over and over and get me all snored over. I don't want to hear the same song, different melody 100x over. I don't find that interesting at all. DragonForce are awful songwriters, period. They write the same song every time and use a couple different variation, often even stealing vocal lines or just adding or dropping a note to them. I understand that as a fan of the band, you want that; the problem is, that apart from the fans of the band, DF's music is going to appeal to exactly fucking nobody because it's so shittily composed. Power metal fans are generally very narrow-minded when it comes to change in their music.

I remember when Sonata Arctica put out Unia and they got a huge backlash in reviews from the press and the fans, who said it wasn't power metal anymore and that they didn't like it because they didn't play rakkatakatak power metal anymore and had decided to do something with their songwriting. What it turns out is that from a musical point of view, Unia is their best album yet because they've shown they can mature and write different songs using different styles and not have it suck or be boring; certainly it caters to more than just the typical power metal fanbase, of which a clear amount also like the record. So Unia was a good move.

Ultra Beatdown, in the long run, is not going to gain DF any new fans; in the long run, it's not gonna do them any good. Soon people are gonna get tired of the DF gimmick and they'll go back to playing for their core audience: lost guitar hero guitarniks, a scattered amount of power metal fans (because I'm pretty sure most power metal fans prefer the GOOD bands in the genre, such as Blind Guardian or Iced Earth or Kamelot).

You see it's not about being formulaic per se; I enjoy some power metal bands for the same reason; DragonForce's formula does not work particularly well in the first place and they see no reason at all to change it up, so it's not fresh anymore, the gimmick isn't fun anymore and I am tired of people hyping this fucking band for being the best thing since sliced bread since they're clearly not as competent as songwriters as most power metal bands.



> Also claiming they suck at what they do is /totally/ different than saying you hate the genre and there is certainly no lack of skill (excluding lecklerc what'shisface and totman's lack of creativity) in the band. Nor am I going to be a dick and claim that they are the most skilled ever, because anyone doing that is arrogant and faggoty and I hate it :(


Dude? Buh? Since when do I hate power metal? That's really the most retarded statement coming from me because you know I am a big, big metal fan and like a lot of power metal. And you know DragonForce are pretty sloppy live right? Most of their stuff is pretty studio-enhanced. Herman Li is about the only one I'd say that has skill.



> also herman li specifically stated that he doesn't want to change the way the band is doing it because the whole point of being a superniche genre is that you are, in fact, something a lot of people might not like.


I know that, and I applaud DragonForce's dedication to what they do, but if they do this I am not buying their albums or supporting the band. DragonForce do not have the songwriting skill of Iron Maiden or Slayer and they just cannot pull off making the same album over and over again. They aren't competent songwriters. They just don't write interesting material enough to do that.



> fucking guitar hero


lol

I'm sorry, you can debate this all you want with me and you're free to like the band, but on the musical aspect, you're really not going to win this.


----------



## Alaphlosiam (Sep 1, 2008)

ALTMER used SUPER EGO!
You're out of PP for that move!
ALTMER used STRUGGLE!


----------



## Altmer (Sep 1, 2008)

Alaphlosiam said:


> ALTMER used SUPER EGO!
> You're out of PP for that move!
> ALTMER used STRUGGLE!


fail


----------



## Morbid (Sep 1, 2008)

Altmer said:


> And you know DragonForce are pretty sloppy live right? Most of their stuff is pretty studio-enhanced. Herman Li is about the only one I'd say that has skill.


Some of my mates went to see Dragonforce on the Black Crusade tour last year, and they said that they were incredibly sloppy live to the point where most of the crowd were actually booing them. And the bill was filled with stuff like Shadows Fall, Trivium, Machine Head and Arch Enemy, so let's face it it was unlikely to be hardcore metalheads booing them off, most people there would be part of Dragonforce's main fanbase (the dumb shits who bum Roadrunner records part not the power metalhead part).


----------



## Altmer (Sep 2, 2008)

the thing is though that apparently arch enemy rule live and I am pretty sure a band like Machine Head would put on a good show

Trivium are entirely gay though and never heard Shadows Fall but their drummer is supposed to be good (he's friends with the dude from DT)

but then again all the thrash metalheads would just find them excruciatingly gay


----------



## Morbid (Sep 2, 2008)

Altmer said:


> the thing is though that apparently arch enemy rule live and I am pretty sure a band like Machine Head would put on a good show
> 
> Trivium are entirely gay though and never heard Shadows Fall but their drummer is supposed to be good (he's friends with the dude from DT)
> 
> but then again all the thrash metalheads would just find them excruciatingly gay


I don't mind Arch Enemy's music but apparently they're not brilliant live, Mike Amott's getting old :( Machine Head I'm sure would be alright live, but was just trying to point out that the sort of people who'd be at that gig would be the sort of people who make up a large proportion of Dragonforce's fanbase, so it's quite impressive that they managed to get themselves booed off.


----------



## Altmer (Sep 2, 2008)

dragonforce is faaaar too homosexual for all the cool thrash metalheads and corekiddies


----------



## Alaphlosiam (Sep 2, 2008)

Altmer said:


> dragonforce is faaaar too homosexual for all the cool thrash metalheads and corekiddies


How can you group those two together?


----------



## Altmer (Sep 3, 2008)

Alaphlosiam said:


> How can you group those two together?


check the black crusade lineup

shadows fall - corekiddies band with some thrash influence
arch enemy - good metal, but has crossover appeal to corekiddies
dragonforce - power metal for guitarniks and doesn't fit in the lineup
trivium - corekiddies galore
machine head - good band but the fanbase is substantially corekiddie and some thrash groove metallers

dragonforce doesn't belong on that lineup


----------



## Morbid (Sep 3, 2008)

They're all on the massive mainstream metal labels like Roadrunner though, so the kids who are only casually into metal tend to just be into those bands because they don't know any others, so around here you get plenty of fans of bands like Machine Head and Trivium who also bum Dragonforce because their song came on after Davidian on a Metal Hammer compilation CD or whatever. Obviously you'll get the diehard fans of each band at the gig, but the majority of the people there will be the sort of people who'll listen to whatever rubbish Kerrang and Metal Hammer force down their ears.


----------



## Altmer (Sep 3, 2008)

Yeah well um I like Machine Head actually and Arch Enemy isn't too bad. I like the first DF album.


----------



## Jetx (Sep 3, 2008)

Morbid said:


> They're all on the massive mainstream metal labels like Roadrunner though


Then again, so are Dream Theater and Opeth.


----------



## Ryan the Terrible (Sep 3, 2008)

Their only good album was Sonic Firestorm, in my opinion. It actually had some variety. (Hence "Trail of Broken Hearts" and "Dawn Over a New World" being on it.)

Perhaps this one will be okay.


----------



## Altmer (Sep 3, 2008)

trail of broken hearts is on inhuman rampage what


----------



## Altmer (Sep 3, 2008)

Jetx said:


> Then again, so are Dream Theater and Opeth.


there are good bands on roadrunner it's just that they get hyped for being the best thing zomgzorz when they're just decent


----------



## Morbid (Sep 3, 2008)

Jetx said:


> Then again, so are Dream Theater and Opeth.


Yeah I know, that's not what I meant. :S As in, a lot of casual fans only like them because they're on Roadrunner because they're not into metal enough to delve further beyond the mainstream labels. I didn't mean they're automatically shit because they're on Roadrunner, just that they will attract a more mainstream audience.


----------



## Furretsu (Sep 3, 2008)

Within Temptation was cool until they signed to Roadrunner and started making modern rock Evanescence shit. That's about the extent of what I know about the label, but it's enough to make me hate it.


----------



## Alaphlosiam (Sep 3, 2008)

Altmer said:


> check the black crusade lineup
> 
> shadows fall - corekiddies band with some thrash influence
> arch enemy - good metal, but has crossover appeal to corekiddies
> ...


I know that; I was just saying, how can you group good groups of people (thrashers) and the shitheads (core) together in a sentence? It's like putting "Krabby Patty" and "never eaten" in the same sentence. :o

No, I'm not seriously saying that. Note the smiley at the end.


----------



## Altmer (Sep 4, 2008)

Furretsu said:


> Within Temptation was cool until they signed to Roadrunner and started making modern rock Evanescence shit. That's about the extent of what I know about the label, but it's enough to make me hate it.


opeth is on it

that makes the label insta-cool


----------



## Morbid (Sep 4, 2008)

Altmer said:


> opeth is on it
> 
> that makes the label insta-cool


They've only released a couple of albums on it so far. Ghost Reveries was okay, haven't heard the new one. Roadrunner used to have loads of decent bands, I have old albums by bands like Deicide, Immolation and Obituary with the Roadrunner logo on, it's a shame really.


----------



## Altmer (Sep 5, 2008)

Opeth have always ruled though and they are amazing live as well


----------



## Alaphlosiam (Sep 6, 2008)

What happened to Dragonforce?


----------



## Furretsu (Sep 6, 2008)

Dragon*F*orce, dammit. D:<


----------



## Altmer (Sep 6, 2008)

DragonFart


----------



## Alaphlosiam (Sep 7, 2008)

Furretsu said:


> Dragon*F*orce, dammit. D:<


So would you type it as "SlipKnoT", "PanterA", etc. all the time? That would also mean you need to caps lock a lot of band names.


----------



## Furretsu (Sep 7, 2008)

If the band names actually _were_ SlipKnoT and PanterA, yes. Fortunately for us, they aren't.


----------



## #1 bro (Sep 8, 2008)

Alaphlosiam said:


> That would also mean you need to caps lock a lot of band names.


Apparently, the name of AFI's most recent album is DECEMBERUNDERGROUND. Whoah there, AFI! We hear you! You don't have to _shout_!


----------



## Furretsu (Sep 8, 2008)

Zeta Reticuli said:


> Apparently, the name of AFI's most recent album is DECEMBERUNDERGROUND. Whoah there, AFI! We hear you! You don't have to _shout_!


It's actually decemberunderground. Not all caps - all lowercase. Check MusicBrainz before making statements like that. >(


----------



## #1 bro (Sep 8, 2008)

iTunes seems to think it's all caps.

Not that iTunes is always right, but that's where I got my information from.


----------



## Furretsu (Sep 8, 2008)

iTunes has the shittiest metadata ever. Never ever rely on it for something that isn't obvious.


----------



## #1 bro (Sep 8, 2008)

Point taken. :P


----------



## Alaphlosiam (Sep 9, 2008)

Furretsu said:


> If the band names actually _were_ SlipKnoT and PanterA, yes. Fortunately for us, they aren't.


Based on their logos, they are. Well, Pantera is more of "PANTERA", but you get my point. We don't bother typing it like that all the time, so why bother with Dragonforce?


----------



## Furretsu (Sep 9, 2008)

I don't care about band logos; I care about metadata, and all official sources point to "Pantera." This is what they should always be referred to. Diablo Swing Orchestra's logo is this:







Yet nobody refers to them that way. Logos are irrelevant.


----------



## Alaphlosiam (Sep 9, 2008)

Then so shall Dragonforce.


----------



## Furretsu (Sep 9, 2008)

Except the *correct* metadata is DragonForce... you'd think the official site would be convincing enough... Are you just being an ass for the sake of it?


----------



## Altmer (Sep 10, 2008)

He likes pig squeals. don't take the fucko seriously


----------

