# Sexuality



## ultraviolet

So, how do you define yourself sexually? Just curious. :o

@poll: I'm bisexual.

Also, I've probably missed something, so feel free to mention it. Easy definitions can be found here.


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## Vladimir Putin's LJ

Ladies are pretty but I like boys best. Especially when they're manly and rugged 'v'


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## Harlequin

Homosexual.


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## J.T.

Heterosexual.


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## Minish

Bisexual.

Though very far over to the gay side of the Kinsey scale. I just say bisexual to make things easier since I know I could fall in love with a guy, I just find the idea of having sex with one a bit icky and I don't find the male body attractive at all.


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## Harlequin

Except that's not really bisexual, Cirrus. For something to be part of your sexuality it requires the sex part.

If you're not attracted to or aroused by men then you can't claim bisexuality.


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## Jack_the_White

Heterosexual

I'm really quite surprised at how serious conversations we have in this forum, more than I might have on school, but I do respect what everyone else is saying here.


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## Stormecho

I think I'm asexual? I honestly cannot seem to see any gender, or anyone at all as attractive. I also have no real sexual urges.

Of course it might be that I've yet to mature enough to feel an attraction for someone else. Hm.


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## Minish

Harlequin said:


> Except that's not really bisexual, Cirrus. For something to be part of your sexuality it requires the sex part.
> 
> If you're not attracted to or aroused by men then you can't claim bisexuality.


But I could theoretically go into a relationship with a man and maybe even _marry_ one, I just wouldn't enjoy the sex as much as I would with a woman, or maybe at all.

...yeah, not likely, but still. I guess I'm emotionally bisexual, but for all intents and purposes gay, then? I've never really been sure anyway.


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## spaekle

I _identify_ as gay, but since that tends to confuse people IRL I usually just say that I'm androsexual or that I like guys.


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## Vladimir Putin's LJ

Cirrus said:


> But I could theoretically go into a relationship with a man and maybe even _marry_ one, I just wouldn't enjoy the sex as much as I would with a woman, or maybe at all.
> 
> ...yeah, not likely, but still. I guess I'm emotionally bisexual, but for all intents and purposes gay, then? I've never really been sure anyway.


Homosexual biromantic?


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## Murkrow

I'll just put myself down for I don't know.

I would say heterosexual but I find myself very occasionally attracted to/have fantasies about men, although I don't think often enough for me to say bi or even a one on the kinsey scale for sure.


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## Minish

Vladimir Putin's LJ said:


> Homosexual biromantic?


Thaaaat's the term I was trying to recall. :D


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## Vladimir Putin's LJ

Biromantic always makes me think of people with weird biro fetishes though :c


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## Harlequin

Yeah, that's a term that works but honestly, without sexual attraction isn't that love just "friendship"?

A very, very close and deep friendship, but at the end of the day it's still friendship.


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## Jolty

Pansexual probably... I don't really care what bits anyone has, if I'm sexually attracted to them then that's that


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## Harlequin

Jolty said:


> Pansexual probably... I don't really care what bits anyone has, if I'm sexually attracted to them then that's that


That's nice, but it's probably true for everyone. When someone says "what's your sexuality?" they're not asking for the potentials, they're asking for your past record of attraction.

"I am a five on the Kinsey scale. I am gay." "I am a 1 on the Kinsey scale. I am straight." etc.

_Potentially_ I'm bisexual. I'm not ruling out being attracted to a woman or even a dinosaur but is it practical to call myself pansexual? Not really.

(This wasn't an attack on you. It was just an observation.)


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## Jolty

Harlequin said:


> That's nice, but it's probably true for everyone. When someone says "what's your sexuality?" they're not asking for the potentials, they're asking for your past record of attraction.
> 
> "I am a five on the Kinsey scale. I am gay." "I am a 1 on the Kinsey scale. I am straight." etc.
> 
> _Potentially_ I'm bisexual. I'm not ruling out being attracted to a woman or even a dinosaur but is it practical to call myself pansexual? Not really.
> 
> (This wasn't an attack on you. It was just an observation.)


fair enough

I'm a 3 on the kinsey scale anyway and when people ask what I am, I just say bi as it's easier :B


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## Dewgong

thought i was bisexual

...i'm homosexual :B


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## #1 bro

what the fuck is pansexual and how does it differ from bisexual?

i've never been able to figure this out.


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## Zeph

Pansexual, I believe, is where you can be attracted to anyone whether they are male, female, both or neither.


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## Dewgong

wikipedia said:
			
		

> Pansexuality, or omnisexuality is a sexual orientation characterized by the potential for aesthetic attraction, romantic love, or sexual desire for people, regardless of their gender identity or biological sex. Some pansexuals suggest that they are gender-blind; that gender and sex are insignificant or irrelevant in determining whether they will be sexually attracted to others.


i guess it's different from bisexuality... well bi is male and female, pan has zero account for gender in the first place. like zephy said, male/female, both or neither. :O


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## foreign contaminant

as far as i am aware, nothing. i have had no sexual urges in years..


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## Worst Username Ever

Stormecho said:


> I think I'm asexual? I honestly cannot seem to see any gender, or anyone at all as attractive. I also have no real sexual urges.
> 
> Of course it might be that I've yet to mature enough to feel an attraction for someone else. Hm.


This.


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## Dinru

Um. Good question...

I know I am romantically attracted to people regardless of gender. Mostly because of the way I see gender in general- I can understand being only physically attracted to certain genitals, but only wanting to date people simply because they have those genitals seems... almost discriminatory. I don't mean that as an attack, just as my own opinion. So I am panromantic.

As for the -sexual part... well, your guess is as good as mine. I've been attracted to both men and women in my life. But I used to be attracted to both at once, but sometimes I just can't find one attractive to save my life... I guess I swing? I don't know.


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## surskitty

I have yet to figure out the whole 'sexuality' thing.  :B


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## Zuu

I voted "heterosexual" but I guess I am biromantic.


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## Tailsy

I touch _everyone_ inappropriately.


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## Bluberry Bat

So, I had never heard the term pansexual before now and had always just identified as bi. But with this, I would classify myself as completely pan. To oversimplify my views, BODIES MEAN NUSSING MAAAAAAN. And I've never found anyone attractive based on their body, only once I'm fond of their personality can I feel that way regardless of how they're shaped. As far as sexual relations go it really doesn't matter to me, as long as there's cuddling. :> ..Perhaps very inappropriate cuddling~


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## #1 bro

Dewgong said:


> i guess it's different from bisexuality... well bi is male and female, pan has zero account for gender in the first place. like zephy said, male/female, both or neither. :O





Zephyrous Castform said:


> Pansexual, I believe, is where you can be attracted to anyone whether they are male, female, both or neither.


um, i'm pretty sure there are only two genders... so how does being attracted to _both_ genders differ from being attracted to _every_ gender? wtf


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## Zeph

I'm pretty suremost bisexual people would not be so attracted to someone if they were both genders or had none, regardless of the fact they like both.


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## spaekle

Zeta Reticuli said:


> um, i'm pretty sure there are only two genders... so how does being attracted to _both_ genders differ from being attracted to _every_ gender? wtf


The way I understand it, bisexual people are more likely to go "on boys I like x and on girls I like y", while pansexual people really _don't care_ what sex or gender you are; it's not a deciding factor in whether or not they find a person attractive.

There are also some people who consider themselves queer/neither gender/other things. There are many people who don't cleanly fit into "male" or "female" boxes. Gender is a _spectrum_, yo.


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## Aobaru

Bisexual.

You could say I'm a 4/3.5 on the Kinsey scale, i.e. I'm bi but kinda prefer guys.


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## Lady Grimdour

Hetero, I guess.


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## octobr

I just apply the term bisexual to all genders anyways. Even though the technical meaning of it is for just the two binary genders ... I don't think that really matters.



Also I'm your mom sexual OHHHHH uh, I don't know, does it matter. I like ladies. But mens are fine too. (see why I said your mom OHHHH)


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## Zora of Termina

Heterosexual biromantic?

I mean, I could see myself together with a woman, yes, but I can only picture and have only really felt sexually attracted to guys.

:/


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## Harlequin

Dinru said:


> Um. Good question...
> 
> I know I am romantically attracted to people regardless of gender. Mostly because of the way I see gender in general- I can understand being only physically attracted to certain genitals, but only wanting to date people simply because they have those genitals seems... almost discriminatory. I don't mean that as an attack, just as my own opinion. So I am panromantic.
> 
> As for the -sexual part... well, your guess is as good as mine. I've been attracted to both men and women in my life. But I used to be attracted to both at once, but sometimes I just can't find one attractive to save my life... I guess I swing? I don't know.


Well, yes, of course it's discriminatory. That's the entire _point_. I am not sexually interested in girls so why should I invest time in a wasted project? I'm never going to love the woman as more than a friend so why bother? What's the point of a romantic relationship if there's never any sex? 

Someone you're close to but don't have sex with is called a friend.


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## Jason-Kun

I'm straight.


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## glitchedgamer

Heterosexual. I've only ever been attracted to girls in my short life.

This has to be the only Pokemon forum on the Net that can discuss this topic maturely. Yay for us!


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## Keltena

Well, I find girls indisputably attractive. And same with guys, except... in a different way, I guess. So yeah, bisexual seems to fit.


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## Flora

I'm pretty certain I'm straight, but no _entirely_ sure. *shrugs*


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## OrangeAipom

Tailsy said:


> I touch _everyone_ inappropriately.


I too, but that doesn't mean I'm attracted to it.


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## Dinru

Harlequin said:


> Well, yes, of course it's discriminatory. That's the entire _point_. I am not sexually interested in girls so why should I invest time in a wasted project? I'm never going to love the woman as more than a friend so why bother? What's the point of a romantic relationship if there's never any sex?
> 
> Someone you're close to but don't have sex with is called a friend.


...I never said there was anything wrong with it. I just don't quite understand why people can be so totally strictly gay/straight. I mean, feel free to only date boys (or girls, for those that like girls) if that's what floats your boat, I say. It's just my opinion. But people can do what and who they please.

Also, I don't really think sex isn't the thing that separates friendship from romance. It's infatuation. If a person can't make you feel *~Warm fuzzies in your own little world of happiness IIIIIiii~~~ ~* (don't even go there) on a regular basis, that's probably not romance. Not saying that's the only thing, or that that's love (that is very different from love) but. Yeah.

I hope I made sense.


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## Momoharu

I'm a 0 on the kinsey scale.

Aka straight as a rod.


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## Tailsy

Chucho said:


> I too, but that doesn't mean I'm attracted to it.


nyoro~n


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## @lex

I'd _like_ to be asexual, and I sometimes (during cynical moments) am. In reality, though, I'm bi- or pansexual (not quite clear on this).


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## goldenquagsire

I'm just really confused.

Like, I'm certain that I'd date either gender, as long as they suited my tastes. I'm definitely 100% that I'd like to have sex with women. The only problem is, I'm not quite sure how sure I am of my sexual desire for men. I mean, it's still at least a good 40%, but still.

It's more like, certain stuff I'm not so keen on. Like anal. But that applies pretty equally to both sexes (I am horribly, horribly squicky about anal - goddamn that thing is so SMALL you shouldn't be sticking stuff up it). And there's other stuff I would actually kind of enjoy. Like oral. And frankly, I disagree that you can't have a meaningful romantic relationship with someone without sex. :/

So I dunno. Heterosexual biromantic heavily leaning towards bisexual?


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## ultraviolet

> um, i'm pretty sure there are only two genders... so how does being attracted to _both_ genders differ from being attracted to _every_ gender? wtf


Well, there are plenty of people who identify themselves as female and male, neither, genderless and so on. I think the general difference is that bisexuality _by name_ suggests that there are two genders (hence bi) as opposed to pansexual where it doesn't matter. For example, the reason why I identify as bisexual is because I find men attractive because they're male and women attractive because they're female. I've never found gender ambiguity to be particularly attractive and I haven't met anyone who identifies as anything other than male or female, so I don't really know if I would be attracted to them. 
Go and wiki 'third gender' for more information. I thought it would be kind of wrong to leave pansexuality out of the poll, because it's definitely a valid option.


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## Skroy

Heterosexual.

...Meh, not much else to say.


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## Phyro Phantom

Skroy Horitz said:


> Heterosexual.
> 
> ...Meh, not much else to say.


Same here.  At least we're winning on the poll.  xD

Personally, I kinda find all of this other stuff kind of strange, though I do understand it in a strange way.  o_O  I like girls way too much to be anything other than heterosexual though.  (Plus anything else is against my religion, soooo....)


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## goldenquagsire

Zhorken said:


> It stretches!  I can (and do) fit a small lava lamp.  You just have to work it up to that point.
> 
> (EDIT: Also don't worry; the linked image is only the lava lamp and a measuring tape to clarify that "small" isn't exactly tiny here.  Nothing scarring, though.)
> (EDIT2: god damn I feel silly)


sweet christ's bollocks

how are you still able to sit down after that.

on a more serious note, isn't it supposed to hurt like hell, at least the first few times?


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## Butterfree

Heterosexual. Oddly, I find women more aesthetically beautiful than men and penises are just plain ugly, but men are just so hot and adorable and have sexy beards and smell nice and I want to touch them.

Used to identify as heteroromantic asexual, but the sexual part has been getting more prominent recently, so eh, it's probably no longer appropriate.


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## Vladimir Putin's LJ

Phyro Phantom said:


> Same here.  At least we're winning on the poll.  xD
> 
> Personally, I kinda find all of this other stuff kind of strange, though I do understand it in a strange way.  o_O  I like girls way too much to be anything other than heterosexual though.  (Plus anything else is against my religion, soooo....)


Funfax: homosexual *feelings* are not prohibited by any religion! Homosexual *sex* is, but even that is arguable!



goldenquagsire said:


> sweet christ's bollocks
> 
> how are you still able to sit down after that.
> 
> on a more serious note, isn't it supposed to hurt like hell, at least the first few times?


The magic of lube.


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## hopeandjoy

...I'm not sure if I'm bi or not. I'm _sexually_ attracted to both genders, but I'm only _romantically_ attracted to men.

Oh, and Catholic fun fact: Homosexual feelings are a-okay and if gay people could get married, homosexual sex would be too.


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## goldenquagsire

> but men are just so hot and adorable and have sexy beards and smell nice and I want to touch them.





> sexy beards and smell nice


what



> The magic of lube.


^_^;;


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## Tarvos

yeah I am pretty heterosexual


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## Jolty

Zhorken said:


> It stretches!  I can (and do) fit a small lava lamp.  You just have to work it up to that point.
> 
> (EDIT: Also don't worry; the linked image is only the lava lamp and a measuring tape to clarify that "small" isn't exactly tiny here.  Nothing scarring, though.)
> (EDIT2: god damn I feel silly)


mother of god



Phyro Phantom said:


> Same here.  At least we're winning on the poll.  xD
> 
> Personally, I kinda find all of this other stuff kind of strange, though I do understand it in a strange way.  o_O  I like girls way too much to be anything other than heterosexual though.  (Plus anything else is against my religion, soooo....)


:|


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## Mango

I'm straight. Like a freaking arrow, man. Women are hotter; their boobies are better looking.


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## Dewgong

Phyro Phantom said:


> Same here.  At least we're winning on the poll.  xD


huh?



Phyro Phantom said:


> Personally, I kinda find all of this other stuff kind of strange, though I do understand it in a strange way.  o_O


...why and what's 'other stuff'?

just you know. wondering.


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## Phyro Phantom

Vladimir Putin's LJ said:


> Funfax: homosexual *feelings* are not prohibited by any religion! Homosexual *sex* is, but even that is arguable!


Unchaste thoughts are not encouraged by my religion, and homosexual sex is most certainly banned.  So, um, no.



Ketsu said:


> Oh, and Catholic fun fact: Homosexual feelings are a-okay and if gay people could get married, homosexual sex would be too.


Who told you that?  Gay people can get married in certain states in the US, actually, (though obviously not in the Church) though we still don't believe in that way of life.  As Catholics, we believe that the purpose of marriage is to bring new life into the world.  Since homosexual sex doesn't do this, we obviously don't view it as a "proper" marriage, if you could even call it a marriage.  If it's gay, it's more like "agreeing to have intercourse" than "agreeing to raise children."  There's quite the difference.

What we mean when we say that being gay is "okay" doesn't mean that we view it as morally correct, but rather that we try to be tolerant to people that think otherwise, and we need to remember that God is always willing to forgive everyone - even if they're not Catholic / Christian.

EDIT:  To Dewgong:  Currently, heterosexual has the highest votes in the poll.  I was simply referencing that.  As for what I meant by "other stuff", I meant non-heterosexual opinions, which I suppose was a rather hypocritical way of stating it.  For that, I apologize.


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## Zeph

Phyro Phantom said:


> Who told you that?  Gay people can get married in certain states in the US, actually, (though obviously not in the Church) though we still don't believe in that way of life.  As Catholics, we believe that the purpose of marriage is to bring new life into the world.  Since homosexual sex doesn't do this, we obviously don't view it as a "proper" marriage, if you could even call it a marriage.  If it's gay, it's more like "agreeing to have intercourse" than "agreeing to raise children."  There's quite the difference.


So basically in your opinion the only reason two homosexual men (Or indeed women) would even contemplate marriage is to have sex?


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## Phyro Phantom

Zephyrous Castform said:


> So basically in your opinion the only reason two homosexual men (Or indeed women) would even contemplate marriage is to have sex?


Well, obviously they would want to marry because they're attracted to each other and want to live together, but besides living in the same house and sharing finances, I don't think I left that much out of the equation.  My opinion is that the base purpose of marriage is to have children.  But that's just me.


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## Aobaru

Phyro Phantom said:


> Well, obviously they would want to marry because they're attracted to each other and want to live together, but besides living in the same house and sharing finances, I don't think I left that much out of the equation.  My opinion is that the base purpose of marriage is to have children.  But that's just me.


Take cover, Phyro Phantom! I know from experience this is the _last_ place  you should _ever_ give that opinion. 

Unless you're a _very_ good debater.


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## Jolty

Phyro Phantom said:


> Well, obviously they would want to marry because they're attracted to each other and want to live together, but besides living in the same house and sharing finances, I don't think I left that much out of the equation.  My opinion is that the base purpose of marriage is to have children.  But that's just me.


so people who don't want kids can't get married, divorced people with kids already can't get re-married and people who are unable to have kids can't get married?


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## Pook

I'm heterosexual.


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## Dewgong

Phyro Phantom said:


> My opinion is that the base purpose of marriage is to have children.  But that's just me.


...i know quite a few people that have married and never had kids and very happy. it's not a base purpose at all, but it's quite common. some people have kids with people and don't marry and are perfectly happy with that. :|

also thanks for ignoring my other post edit: nevermind, just saw your edit, sorry <3


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## hopeandjoy

Phyro Phantom said:


> Who told you that?


My mother who works at her church and is very religious. The reason why it came up is that is was in the catechism books and mothers were pissed. Mom told us about it. Even our priest agreed with her.





> Gay people can get married in certain states in the US, actually, (though obviously not in the Church)


And my family does a happy dance each time it gets legalized. 





> though we still don't believe in that way of life.  As Catholics, we believe that the purpose of marriage is to bring new life into the world.  Since homosexual sex doesn't do this, we obviously don't view it as a "proper" marriage, if you could even call it a marriage.  If it's gay, it's more like "agreeing to have intercourse" than "agreeing to raise children."  There's quite the difference.


Adoption doesn't count then? A shame. Well, we _all_ know that _no_ children are rotting in foster care.

And why do you need to have kids to get married? I plan to adopt one day and I'm scared of child birth. Maybe I don't want to have kids but adopt them. I still want to get married. What's wrong with that?



> What we mean when we say that being gay is "okay" doesn't mean that we view it as morally correct, but rather that we try to be tolerant to people that think otherwise, and we need to remember that God is always willing to forgive everyone - even if they're not Catholic / Christian.


Perhaps, but I was taught differently by my parents.


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## OrangeAipom

Tailsy said:


> nyoro~n


"D Girls are fat.




goldenquagsire said:


> Like anal. But that applies pretty equally to both sexes


Then just tell the other person not to do that?


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## Notoriously Unknown

Huh. I don't exactly know. I've never been sexualy attracted to anyone before so I can't say.
At times, though, I catch myself looking (Really looking and checking out) other girls bodies and liking it, but I'm pretty sure that doesn't mean that I'm homosexual. I think I'm with Butterfree on this. Women are sexy, men arn't, but I'll probably end up dating men.

Then again, I really dunno. I could be bi. *shrugs*


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## spaekle

Phyro Phantom said:


> As Catholics, we believe that the purpose of marriage is to bring new life into the world.


How about we all have arranged marriages, then? Certainly it wouldn't be a problem if it's all about popping out babies.


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## Vladimir Putin's LJ

Phyro Phantom said:


> Unchaste thoughts are not encouraged by my religion, and homosexual sex is most certainly banned.  So, um, no.


Well, seeing as the Old Testament was annuled by the New one, could you find me the passages in the New one where this is said?

Also, half the gay married couples I know (I live in Belgium it is homoland homos are welcome we're going to sink into the sea etc) have kids from previous het relationships. They have fulfilled their duties in life. Now that they've continued the family line (because we must live only for this) are they allowed to not repress their sexualities?


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## goldenquagsire

> Then just tell the other person not to do that?


Well yeah, but then I'd feel a little guilty that I wouldn't be able to fulfil the other guy's sexual needs.

I guess there are /other/ ways of pleasuring someone, but eh.



> It looks way worse than it really is. The ridge where the body meets the base is rounded.
> 
> Well you don't start with a lava lamp! D: I just wiggled a finger around a bit my first time, then tried working in a second once I was comfortable... And lube would make it easier, of course. I don't have any, so I just use warm water, which works fine for me, though everyone says I'm crazy.


Hrm, maybe I should try this sometime.

I'm just a little worried that I'll end up in hospital and will have to make up a cover story.



> Take cover, Phyro Phantom! I know from experience this is the last place you should ever give that opinion.
> 
> Unless you're a very good debater.


I was sure this would happen the moment I saw the topic. :P


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## Jetx

I'm heterosexual, average and boring and whatnot.


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## Tarvos

> Also, half the gay married couples I know (I live in Belgium it is homoland homos are welcome we're going to sink into the sea etc) have kids from previous het relationships. They have fulfilled their duties in life. Now that they've continued the family line (because we must live only for this) are they allowed to not repress their sexualities?


this. well i live one country north but i travel south every so often, and also it is the same one country up north


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## Phyro Phantom

Um... wow.  So now I'm the weird one. 

Well, I was just stating what I think - obviously most of you won't agree, and I didn't really expect you to.

If a Catholic priest said that, according to the Church, being gay is morally correct, then we definitely need another Vatican council.  -_-

Obviously people get married for pleasure - what I meant was that marriage was meant to produce children.  Of course, consequences come with that, which is why a stable marriage is the preferable environment to raise children.  Also, not everyone has children - even if they are straight, or whatever, but the point is try to avoid selfish marriages in which both partners are only interested in themselves.  Personally, I think that homosexual marriages in which the partners love each other is at least better than heterosexual marriages that were only based on financial or social/political reasons.  I guess I just have too much of a "perfect world" view...



> Also, half the gay married couples I know (I live in Belgium it is homoland homos are welcome we're going to sink into the sea etc) have kids from previous het relationships. They have fulfilled their duties in life. Now that they've continued the family line (because we must live only for this) are they allowed to not repress their sexualities?


That's like saying "I did all my community service, can I go break the law now?"  Previously having kids doesn't really justify things, and since I'm Catholic, I don't believe in divorce, or multiple marriages, etc.

And... "are they allowed to not repress their sexualities?"  Um... when did I ever say they weren't?  I was just saying what I believe in, the way I intend to live, and the way I think those that share my religion ought to live as well.  Personally, I don't believe in putting laws against homosexuality or anything like that in place - those only create conflict, and oppress others just because they have divergent sexualities from the government.

I'm not trying to be all high and mighty, or "you must follow the bible/Church or die" or whatever - I'm just saying what I think, just like the rest of you.

I'm not saying not to argue with me, but you don't have to take it so personally...


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## Tarvos

Marriage isn't meant to produce children. Marriage gives tax benefits. Sex produces children. Whether you stand before an altar with a dressing gown and a wedding ring doesn't improve or decrease your chances of having a child.



> If a Catholic priest said that, according to the Church, being gay is morally correct, then we definitely need another Vatican council. -_-


No. We need to praise this priest's common sense.


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## Phyro Phantom

Watershed said:


> Marriage isn't meant to produce children. Marriage gives tax benefits. Sex produces children. Whether you stand before an altar with a dressing gown and a wedding ring doesn't improve or decrease your chances of having a child.
> 
> No. We need to praise this priest's common sense.


You may agree with his opinion, but it is clearly against Catholic teachings, so I don't think he really ought to be a priest in the first place.  But whatever.

Yes, sex produces children - and sex should only be had in marriage, out of respect for the partner, and to ensure that any children that may result can be properly raised.  Nobody likes having their parents argue and get divorced when they're only a kid, and adultery shows a bad example for the children as well.  Of course, this all depends on your definition of good and evil, which is why none of this applies to you.


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## Tarvos

> Yes, sex produces children - and sex should only be had in marriage, out of respect for the partner, and to ensure that any children that may result can be properly raised.


are you seriously claiming that sex in marriage promotes respect towards the partner? respect isn't shown by withholding sex until a certain date, that is some fantastically awful logic. also, two gay people are equally capable of raising a child, so this isn't an argument against gay marriage at all, this is an argument against marriage. and also, a piece of paper giving tax benefits doesn't say anything about anyone's parenting skills, i know better divorced homes than families that are still together


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## glitchedgamer

You should have sex when YOU feel you are ready. No person, or religion, should tell you if you're ready or not. It's nobody else's decision.


----------



## Tarvos

Sex is done for pleasure as well as procreation. If I do shit with my partner, I'm doing it because I know we will both enjoy it. Seeing her smile when she wakes up next to me is a far bigger form of respect than withholding it because old man in the sky says so.


----------



## Phyro Phantom

If I miss out on some sexual pleasure because I'm too caught up in my Religion, what's it to you?

Everyone else is stating their opinion freely here, and I believe I should be allowed to do the same.


----------



## Tarvos

Nothing. But you claim that no sex is disrespectful towards a partner; I find that offensive.


----------



## Thanks for All the Fish

..I'm not really sure, thinking about it. I don't quite believe I'm straight as an arrow or anything. I'm going with Butterfree and Notory on this one, really. The times I do check out people, a good deal are men, and I prefer men, but women are preeetty :>

So...2 on the scale iunno :v


----------



## Vladimir Putin's LJ

My parents were never married, are we all going to Hell? I was raised mostly by my mother because my father works overseas (and they've separated now anyway) and I can tell you I'm much more balanced and happy than most of the kids in my class whose parents stay together because they're Catholic or because 'divorce is for poors lol', which is sadly the view of a lot of those kids. Ew.

I don't see why you should be forced to stay with someone until you die while you slowly grow to hate them just because... I don't know, just because. And I'd still like my New Testament passages saying gay sex is bad, let alone gay marriage.

I also react strongly to this because it might affect my own marriage (if I ever want to, which is unlikely but er) and also because it's just being normal. If some guy strutted in saying he thinks blacks shouldn't marry whites or each other you'd be upset too, right?

EDIT: And no comparing gays to criminals isn't accurate for pretty damn obvious reasons.

The Catholic church is just going to wither and die if it doesn't adapt to modern times. There's already a severe shortage of priests in Portugal because no normal person nowadays wants to spend their life alone. Why can't women be priests? Why can't priests marry? Those are basic things lots of major religion have.


----------



## Butterfree

Marriage is rather arbitrary as a factor of relationships. People aren't more likely to stay together and happy if they get married than if they don't. People who are likely to stay together and happy frequently do get married, but being married is the effect, not the cause.

I technically see where you're going with the point about marriage being for the sake of raising children, but the thing is that your definition of marriage doesn't agree with the formal definition, which is what really matters here - married couples get certain benefits whether they have children or not, and thus the argument here is that a homosexual couple should be able to get the same benefits as a childless heterosexual couple, even if we put adoption aside. There are other benefits specifically for couples with children, but the benefits of marriage are designed for the convenience of couples in love who live together and plan to continue to do so for the rest of their lives, and homosexual couples can do this in exactly the same way as heterosexual couples.


----------



## spaekle

Phyro Phantom said:


> Also, not everyone has children - even if they are straight, or whatever, but the point is try to avoid selfish marriages in which both partners are only interested in themselves.


From this and other things you've said, I'm gathering that you think people who don't reproduce are somehow 'selfish'. Personally, I think people who insist on having a small army of children in a world that's already a) overpopulated and b) full of existing children in need of adoption are the selfish ones. :\


----------



## speedblader03

I  have never been attracted to anyone, so I'm not sure how to answer this poll...


----------



## Dewgong

asexual? i don't know. or you could always just put i don't know.


----------



## Munchkin

I dream of doing naughty things to women more often than to men =3

In my romantic past, I've only ever dated guys, though that may be because nobody really believes that I'm bi. I've kissed a girl (a _straight_ girl =D), but we never dated. I don't think she ever took all my flirty behaviors seriously - she even "played along" sometimes too, thinking the whole thing was just a joke. Boy, was she ever shocked xD

And, though I like caressing the well-built body of a man that works out, a good-looking woman naturally has many more things to grab~
Around guys, I'm a total lady - maybe a bit of a tomboy but I usually play the lady's part in any relationship with a guy. With girls, I get all freaky and play the role of "that pervy guy that keeps trying to touch meh ohnoez D="
It's funny because nobody takes me seriously so they all let me touch them thinking it's some kind of joke. Also because the guys we know are obsessed with lesbians and bisexual girls, so the girls think they can attract guys by "playing along".

Oh shit I ramble again >.<


----------



## DonKarasuMan

Homosexual, borderline bi-curious (though never been actually sexually aroused by the opposite sex).



speedblader03 said:


> I  have never been attracted to anyone, so I'm not sure how to answer this poll...


Pansexual; you can be attracted to anyone and everyone regardless of their gender / sexual orientation, and to a further extent, regardless of their physical features. Ideally, pansexuals are attracted to 'inner beauty' rather than 'external beauty', which makes it, imo, one of the more ideal sexual orientations if one is seeking for a long-lasting relationship.

Asexual; you aren't stimulated by sex and you do not experience sexual desires. You can still be in a relationship with someone (which draws similarities with pansexuality, in that you can be attracted to anyone and everyone), but you'll only derive inner happiness from it. A mutual asexual relationship is also one of the more stable relationships, imo.


----------



## Minish

DonKarasuMan said:


> Homosexual, borderline bi-curious (though never been actually sexually aroused by the opposite sex).
> 
> 
> 
> Pansexual; you can be attracted to anyone and everyone regardless of their gender / sexual orientation, and to a further extent, regardless of their physical features. Ideally, pansexuals are attracted to 'inner beauty' rather than 'external beauty', which makes it, imo, one of the more ideal sexual orientations if one is seeking for a long-lasting relationship.
> 
> Asexual; you aren't stimulated by sex and you do not experience sexual desires. You can still be in a relationship with someone (which draws similarities with pansexuality, in that you can be attracted to anyone and everyone), but you'll only derive inner happiness from it. A mutual asexual relationship is also one of the more stable relationships, imo.


Bear in mind that he's fifteen. I'm still sixteen and I've only _just_ become attracted to anybody, and even then it's at a push. I don't think you should make yourself decide on a sexuality or label that fits you until you're absolutely sure you could do it properly. Until then, just like whoever you like without thinking about it too deeply. :D

Just my opinion, o' course~ It's why I'm not too fussed about whether I'm bi or gay. And you definitely couldn't decide it on experience, until recently I've only ever had crushes on guys and have never had any sexual experience at all, but I still know I'm probably a lesbian.


----------



## ultraviolet

ftr I never actually felt sexually attracted to _anyone _really until I fell in love with my now-boyfriend; it was only about a year after that where I really explored my sexuality and as of _now _I feel I'm bisexual, and it's the same for him.


----------



## Vyraura

Supposedly hetero but feeling a lot more sexual about girls as of late. So I put bi, even if that's going a bit far right now.


----------



## DonKarasuMan

Cirrus said:


> Bear in mind that he's fifteen. I'm still sixteen and I've only _just_ become attracted to anybody, and even then it's at a push. I don't think you should make yourself decide on a sexuality or label that fits you until you're absolutely sure you could do it properly. Until then, just like whoever you like without thinking about it too deeply. :D
> 
> Just my opinion, o' course~ It's why I'm not too fussed about whether I'm bi or gay. And you definitely couldn't decide it on experience, until recently I've only ever had crushes on guys and have never had any sexual experience at all, but I still know I'm probably a lesbian.


Well, of course, but the body does normally push you into having, at least somewhat lustful, mini-attractions to other people during puberty (it's a hormonal thing, I think). I wasn't trying to label him (though looking back, it does sound like I was); I thought he was just confused.


----------



## Crazy Linoone

Well, I'm either pansexual or asexual. Therefore I settled on I don't know because I'm still trying to figure out which one exactly I am. 



Phyro Phantom said:


> Same here.  At least we're winning on the poll.  xD


Not of you add up the rest of the people. Yes, there's 27 heterosexuals, but 35 homo/bi/pan/a/I don't knows. So you're technically still not the majority here.


----------



## Seritinajii

Bi, I think? My sister thinks I'm gay. Maybe.


----------



## Kistara

Hrr... I suppose heterosexual, although I don't want to ever have it at all. So I suppose mild heterosexual that won't actually ever engage in it because it disgusts me so much? XP 

However, I have been romantically attracted to one guy as well as a couple girls. It really doesn't matter there; I'm interested in someone's personality, not gender really. And since the eyes are the only part I care about on the outside (because they're not just determining the outside in my opinion) I could potentially go for either gender.


----------



## ultraviolet

If you feel repulsed by sex or sexual feelings then I guess that's asexuality; You can always be biromantic if you're attracted to both genders.


----------



## Dannichu

I'm also pretty and witty :3


----------



## PK

Heterosexual. Not interest in males. They are gross.

Although it seems all my best friends are gay girls. Huh.

It's pretty cool living in a state where people are open minded. I'm ashamed to admit it but I used to be against it in like 5th grade until I actually matured and grew out of religious bullshit.


----------



## Dewgong

are you talking about me as a best friend? :)))


----------



## Bombsii

I'm a little surprised how many people aren't sure in that poll. :/

But yeah, i'm straight.


----------



## see ya

Tough call. 95% of the time I'm straight as an arrow, but it's that other 5% that makes me unsure. I think it's 'cause the things I find attractive on ladies is so rigidly specific that I probably wouldn't find them attractive even if I were gay. I've also kissed a girl before, so...a 1, maybe 2 on the Kinsey scale, I guess?


----------



## Tarvos

I'm not, this is all underage kiddos and spongecake fetishism.


----------



## PK

Dewgong said:


> are you talking about me as a best friend? :)))


'Course I am, dew. :D


----------



## Amphacham

I'd say pansexual, the oooh-I-don't-give-a-turd-about-gender sexuality. True, I find the female body INNNNNcredibly... Well, fascinating, but I find it easier to relate to blokes, who, by the way, can be insanely attractive as well.
When it comes to attraction, I pretty much judge by personality.


----------



## Clover

Spaekle Oddberry said:


> I think it's really funny when homophobic  people post in here not realizing that like half the forum is LGBT and even more are atheist. This is the only Pokemon forum I've seen where this debate is so one-sided, and I kind of love it.


I was curious about this, so I thought to make a poll asking, but then I remembered this existed! So yes yes major bump but the poll has history and all. And the history does indeed reveal that over 50% of the respondents are non-heterosexual! Fascinating.

For the record, I voted "I don't know". My sexual inclinations have been legitimately compared to a kindergartener's.


----------



## ultraviolet

Keep in mind that we only have 84 votes, so it might not be as accurate as we think. I guess it's at least a good survery of the most active users though.


----------



## Chopsuey

*Votes and runs away*

I... guess _heterosexual_ is just "straght"? If not, I really need to study up on sex. xD


----------



## Shiva64

Heterosexual. :3

I do think the female body is attractive though... But I honestly can't ever imagine myself doing anything with a woman. I'm only like very slightly curious there. But I really can't see myself dating a woman or having sex with one or anything like that. :V

And besides, I don't really get along with women in general. I've known more guys and I connect with them a hell of a lot easier. :|


----------



## ultraviolet

Blackthorne Steel said:
			
		

> I... guess _heterosexual_ is just "straght"? If not, I really need  to study up on sex. xD


Yes. 'Heterosexual' means you're attracted to the opposite sex.


----------



## Minish

Amphacham said:


> When it comes to attraction, I pretty much judge by personality.


I think you'll find most people do that.
I'm not accusing you personally, but it seems a lot of pansexual people kind of lord it up over people of other sexualities, because pansexuals "don't care about gender!". As if we're all shallow. :/


----------



## Tarvos

I like sex. I like women. I like combining the two. That's about all there is to it for me, sexuality-wise.

(ofc there's the issue of finding a suitable female partner but I succeeded on that front)


----------



## spaekle

I still like penis. I'm probably still aromantic too, dunno.

And, well, it seems like most of the really active members are LGBT. Didn't really think it was possible for there to be a majority like that on a large-ish forum, but yeah. :v


----------



## Harlequin

Nah, it's totally possible. The majority of the active, non-P101 users at GoVTeen aren't heterosexual. There was a poll a while back which showed that roughly 50% of the regular posters were not heterosexual. (And no, this poll wasn't posted in the gay forum.)


----------



## Ymedron

Asexual/hetero?
Or heteroromantic asexual?

I find males attractive, but don't find sex at all interesting. D:


----------



## Spoon

I'm asexual and aromantic. I can't see anyone being more than a friend to me.


----------



## Not Meowth

Some grey area between asexual and straight-but-not-interested-in-doing-anything-straight-people-are-meant-to-and-therefore-_might-as-well-be_-asexual. But since I phrased that absolutely atrociously and it makes no sense, just pretend I said asexual.

kay faraday is a special case


----------



## Jolty

Cirrus said:


> I think you'll find most people do that.
> I'm not accusing you personally, but it seems a lot of pansexual people kind of lord it up over people of other sexualities, because pansexuals "don't care about gender!". As if we're all shallow. :/


pansexhual r da new cool ting !!!
actually that is like so last year, being FTM is the cool beans fad now


But yeah, it does my head in when they act like that. Saying they only care for personality and acting all high and mighty about it. Even though most other people of other sexualities only care about personality too???


----------



## Jester

I am Heterosexual and always will be.


----------



## Flora

so apparently last time i posted in here i said that i'm probably straight but not sure.

a little less sure of the straight part nowadays.

i'm probably bi or something,but at the moment i'm just confused.


----------



## Shadow Serenity

I'm heterosexual, I guess, but I'm in full support of people who aren't. Hell, I would guess that 90% of my friends are bisexual, at least.


----------



## Vladimir Putin's LJ

Midnight said:


> I am Heterosexual and always will be.


You don't say!


----------



## Jester

Since I derailed the virgin thread into discussion about sexuality. Will this soon turn into the "Are you a virgin" thread?


----------



## Arylett Charnoa

Probably bisexual. I mean, it's a bit confusing, really. I find manbodies to be a bit... repulsive, but I can think a guy is cute and desire to be in a relationship with him. And want to do romantic things with him too. And I wouldn't really actually mind sex with a guy, I just wouldn't be as keen on his body as I would with a woman. So I just say that I'm uh... bisexual with a preference for women? I dunno. I could be with either, really, like I said.


----------



## Lili

Heterosexual, though I have tons of bisexual friends and I'm thinking I might be attracted to one of them(a female, of course), and I support those who aren't hetero immensely.


----------



## Autumn

Biromantic asexual, I believe. I am not sexually attracted to anyone - and rather repulsed by the idea of sex, to be honest - but I've also had crushes on both guys and girls before :V (see: my topic in the coughing cupboard from April)


----------



## Jason-Kun

Heteroromantic and heterosexual with slight asexual tendencies.


----------



## Mercy

I'm heterosexual, although I do find women sometimes attractive. But I can only imagine myself going out with men.


----------



## Ryan the Terrible

I absolutely _love_ how we have a minority of straight people. xD

I'm a guy, I like guys, girls have cooties. :<


----------



## see ya

Björk said:
			
		

> "I think everyone's bisexual to some degree or another; it's just a question of whether or not you choose to recognize it and embrace it. Personally, I think choosing between men and women is like choosing between cake and ice cream. You'd be daft not to try both when there are so many different flavours."


I'll just leave this here.

But seriously, this quote has inspired me to be more open. It's strange. I feel straight most of the time, but in some part of my mind I know I could fall in love and have a relationship with a woman. I guess I'm biromantic, then. :D


----------



## Zeph

Pretty much gay. Men are great. And fully open about it, thankfully. Wouldn't have been able to be so several months ago, but hey, things happen, then the closet slightly falls open and nobody minds :3

Incidentally, straight people disgust me and should be purged as they go against my religion. [/bad-attempt-at-satire-in-case-anybody-didn't-notice-and-took-offence]


----------



## ...

I am heterosexual and hopefully will always be, but I do not oppose those who aren't. I'd be a little freaked out if a guy came to me and asked to form a romantic relationship, but wouldn't just bluntly turn him down. I'd want to be just friends, because I'm sure half or more of the guys I know/knew are bisexual or homosexual anyway. I suppose there are some males out there who I find cute, but I find sexual activity with males repulsive and degrading when it's with other men.

I can see myself in a romantic, but not sexual, relationship with another male, albeit not as readily or as realistically as a female. I probably would be nothing more with a male than a close friend, and as of now, I hope that's as far as we'd get. So I guess I'm heterosexual and aromantic, but leaning _slightly_ towards biromantic. Thus, about a 1.5 on the Kinsey Scale.

(I am so glad that I can finally discuss this topic seriously. Even if it's on a Pokemon forum.)


----------



## Elliekat

Hetero, but I don't really see myself having any romantic relationships at all.


----------



## Minish

Ryubane said:


> I am heterosexual and hopefully will always be, but I do not oppose those who aren't. I'd be a little freaked out if a guy came to me and asked to form a romantic relationship, but wouldn't just bluntly turn him down. I'd want to be just friends, because I'm sure half or more of the guys I know/knew are bisexual or homosexual anyway. I suppose there are some males out there who I find cute, but I find sexual activity with males repulsive and degrading when it's with other men.
> 
> I can see myself in a romantic, but not sexual, relationship with another male, albeit not as readily or as realistically as a female. I probably would be nothing more with a male than a close friend, and as of now, I hope that's as far as we'd get. So I guess I'm heterosexual and aromantic, but leaning _slightly_ towards biromantic. Thus, about a 1.5 on the Kinsey Scale.
> 
> (I am so glad that I can finally discuss this topic seriously. Even if it's on a Pokemon forum.)


Be aware that while we can discuss the topic seriously, people here will still be offended. Especially if your reasoning is that sexual activity with other males is "repulsive and degrading".

Stop saying you "hope" you'll always be straight and you "hope" you would never get into a relationship with another man. If you are straight, that's fine, but you're coming off as pretty homophobic, whether or not you say you might be biromantic.


----------



## Tarvos

Half this forum is LGBT. I am one of the few to be almost entirely straight (sexuality is a spectrum)


----------



## ...

Cirrus said:


> Be aware that while we can discuss the topic seriously, people here will still be offended. Especially if your reasoning is that sexual activity with other males is "repulsive and degrading".
> 
> Stop saying you "hope" you'll always be straight and you "hope" you would never get into a relationship with another man. If you are straight, that's fine, but you're coming off as pretty homophobic, whether or not you say you might be biromantic.


I'm certainly not homophobic, as I've been friends with at least one male who's been bisexual, but I don't enjoy the thought of engaging in such activities with a man at all. A relationship is just fine with me, but not an intimate sexual one. It's hard for me to explain, but I am not 100% heterosexual, or  100% bisexual. I'm in between heterosexual and bisexual but leaning towards heterosexual, if that's how you want to look at it.

I'm sorry if I offended you and I assure you that I meant no offense. I was simply stating my thoughts on the topic, as I've seen others here do.


----------



## Minish

Ryubane said:


> I'm certainly not homophobic, as I've been friends with at least one male who's been bisexual, but I don't enjoy the thought of engaging in such activities with a man at all. A relationship is just fine with me, but not an intimate sexual one. It's hard for me to explain, but I am not 100% heterosexual, or  100% bisexual. I'm in between heterosexual and bisexual but leaning towards heterosexual, if that's how you want to look at it.
> 
> I'm sorry if I offended you and I assure you that I meant no offense. I was simply stating my thoughts on the topic, as I've seen others here do.


"But I'm friends with a gay person so I can't be gay!" is a really, really bad excuse and a lot of homophobics feel that way. Funnily enough they learn they _can_ forget their friends' sexualities, but still don't respect them much.

I don't think you're one of those people, don't worry, but the way you wrote it sounded homophobic no matter how you meant it. "Repulsive and degrading"? Charming. This isn't about your particular sexualiy, just the way you said why you 'don't want' to be gay. Just stating your thoughts isn't protection from being challenged on them, by the way -- I hope you didn't actually expect that from a very LGBT-dominated forum.

Don't worry, I wasn't personally offended, I'm sure you didn't mean any harm. ^^ Just be more careful about the way you speak of such things, and it's certainly not anything to do with you not wanting to have sex with a man, that's obviously perfectly fine.


----------



## ...

Cirrus said:


> "But I'm friends with a gay person so I can't be gay!" is a really, really bad excuse and a lot of homophobics feel that way. Funnily enough they learn they _can_ forget their friends' sexualities, but still don't respect them much.
> 
> I don't think you're one of those people, don't worry, but the way you wrote it sounded homophobic no matter how you meant it. "Repulsive and degrading"? Charming. This isn't about your particular sexualiy, just the way you said why you 'don't want' to be gay. Just stating your thoughts isn't protection from being challenged on them, by the way -- I hope you didn't actually expect that from a very LGBT-dominated forum.
> 
> Don't worry, I wasn't personally offended, I'm sure you didn't mean any harm. ^^ Just be more careful about the way you speak of such things, and it's certainly not anything to do with you not wanting to have sex with a man, that's obviously perfectly fine.


Well if you'll look at my first post, you'll see that I said that I didn't care if other people were bisexual or gay; In fact, I encourage them to love who they want to love no matter what others think. I'm just not bisexual or gay myself. 

And I probably should have seen this coming; in retrospect, it does seem like I was indeed coming across as homophobic or even anti-homosexuality, but I know I'm not and should have made that more clear. I certainly didn't _not_ expect to be asked or confronted by someone who felt differently about the subject, but perhaps didn't expect it to be about me being homophobic. I'm glad you were so understanding about it and in helping me to sort of clean up my thoughts about the topic so that they may have been easier to understand. ^_^


----------



## Tyranitar freak

Heterosexual. Support gays, but when they come onto me, really creepy.


----------



## Minish

Ryubane said:


> Well if you'll look at my first post, you'll see that I said that I didn't care if other people were bisexual or gay; In fact, I encourage them to love who they want to love no matter what others think. I'm just not bisexual or gay myself.


I knooow. X3 But you later went on to say "repulsive and degrading", which I'd imagine would be quite offensive to an actual gay person. That's all.



Tyranitar freak said:


> Heterosexual. Support gays, but when they come onto me, really creepy.


You're _thirteen_. How many gays are supposed to have come onto you?


----------



## ...

Cirrus said:


> I knooow. X3 But you later went on to say "repulsive and degrading", which I'd imagine would be quite offensive to an actual gay person. That's all.
> 
> You're _thirteen_. How many gays are supposed to have come onto you?


Would you rather I go back and edit that post? 

And I was in a _Boy Scout troop_ at thirteen and had to _camp_ with boys older than me by a few years who may not have been but certainly came across as gay or bisexual. And I wasn't quite as accepting of such things back then, to say the least. I'm so glad that's changed now.


----------



## Autumn

I'm bi and I had to share a bed with a friend of mine who knew that I was (but around whom things were a teensy bit awkward purely because of that fact) in Disney World. :x


----------



## Esque

I'm bi-ish.


----------



## thunder

I'm heterosexual don't really care what others are, but would probably not react kindly if someone came onto me, but thats just because I generaly don't act kindly most of the time anyway.


----------



## Jolty

hey queers
how many of you constantly come onto straight people of your sex

I TOTALLY DO IT ALL THE TIME


----------



## goldenquagsire

Jolty said:


> hey queers
> how many of you constantly come onto straight people of your sex
> 
> I TOTALLY DO IT ALL THE TIME


i've done it a couple of times, mostly for lulz but also once or twice semi-seriously.

like there's this one catholic guy who I like to wind up by remarking on his cute eyes, lovely hair and how adorable he is when drunk.


----------



## surskitty

Almost entirely asexual and probably a 4.5 on Kinsey.


----------



## Patar

I'm heterosexual. But I do have some bi and gay friends. Most of them are girls... Not to offend anyone. I'm pretty sure some of my friends who are guys are gay too but are too embarrassed to admit it.


----------



## @lex

Okay, I'll try this again:

Antisexual. Oh yeah.


----------



## Green

bi. i'm mostly attracted to girls, but i've had my share of crushes on guys.


----------



## Lorem Ipsum

I voted in this ages ago, but never actually posted. Well, basically, I'm a homoromantic bisexual. The whole homoromantic thing comes from my experience over the past year or so, where I've fallen deeply in love with one of my classmates (who is male), and intermittently crushed on other classmates (who are also male). But that isn't to say that I wouldn't have sex with a woman.


----------



## Butterfree

thunder said:


> I'm heterosexual don't really care what others are, but would probably not react kindly if someone came onto me, but thats just because I generaly don't act kindly most of the time anyway.





Tyranitar freak said:


> Heterosexual. Support gays, but when they come onto me, really creepy.


Huh. I'd find it pretty cool to be hit on by a woman. Might go along with it, even.

I wonder if guys are more conditioned to be repulsed by the idea of being hit on by another man than women.


----------



## Vladimir Putin's LJ

I like how they apparently think gays have some sort of straightdar, haha.

I only like men but it'd be very flattering to be hit on by either gender c:


----------



## goldenquagsire

Vladimir Putin's LJ said:


> I like how they apparently think gays have some sort of straightdar, haha.
> 
> I only like men but it'd be very flattering to be hit on by either gender c:


apparently my dad got hit on by a male bartender once and he was quite a charming man. so I guess that means my dad was doing something right. :o


----------



## opaltiger

Butterfree said:


> Huh. I'd find it pretty cool to be hit on by a woman. Might go along with it, even.
> 
> I wonder if guys are more conditioned to be repulsed by the idea of being hit on by another man than women.


I, for one, would take it as a compliment.


----------



## Zuu

yeah, i'd feel pretty cool.


----------



## Sandora

L'il Dwagie said:


> So, I had never heard the term pansexual before now and had always just identified as bi. But with this, I would classify myself as completely pan. To oversimplify my views, BODIES MEAN NUSSING MAAAAAAN.


I second this.

I thank the thread starter for including the wiki article, or I would've never been able to identify myself correctly, 
or at least not in a long time. I didn't think there was a term for my sexuality until now. I honestly don't care what gender a person is when it comes to love. 
So yeah, I'm pansexual. ^^


----------



## EmeraldCityBlues

Hetero. I'm pro-GLBTQ rights, though.


----------



## Tailsy

opaltiger said:


> I, for one, would take it as a compliment.


Dude, I'd just hit that up all over the floor.


----------



## Minish

Sandora said:


> I honestly don't care what gender a person is when it comes to love.


...and all bisexual apparently people do?

Sorry, I have a few niggles with the whole pansexuality concept. :/ Pansexuality sometimes seems to me just like a "we're bisexual but less shallow!" group and I find that a little offensive.

Also, gender =/= sex. Most people are only defined by a sexuality because they don't feel anything for a certain gender's genitals.


----------



## ultraviolet

> Sorry, I have a few niggles with the whole pansexuality concept. :/  Pansexuality sometimes seems to me just like a "we're bisexual but less  shallow!" group and I find that a little offensive.


well it's the whole 'third gender' or whatever thing. People who don't want to assert themselves as male or female (or both, or transgender, or... anything, really). 'Bisexual' as a term suggests a gender binary, and I guess Pansexual doesn't. I identify as bisexual because androgyny doesn't really attract me in any way I can think of, for now. I have a few pansexual friends and one of them used to be in a relationship with a transgender guy. 

I know what you mean, though. Being Pansexual seems to be the new Bisexual among some groups.


----------



## Porygon

Asexual.


----------



## H-land

Butterfree said:


> I wonder if guys are more conditioned to be repulsed by the idea of being hit on by another man than women.


I imagine if I were to be hit on by a man that it would simply be very awkward and potentially disappointing. Depending on the circumstances, though, I may just feel like I'd want to go home and lay down  afterward, though, or offer to have lunch with them anyway or what, but in any case, I'm sure it'd pretty much ruin my day. Not ruin-ruin, but it's the best way I can think to describe a situation in which I'd be preoccupied then until I went to sleep that night, at least.


----------



## spaekle

H-land said:


> I imagine if I were to be hit on by a man that it would simply be very awkward and potentially disappointing. Depending on the circumstances, though, I may just feel like I'd want to go home and lay down  afterward, though, or offer to have lunch with them anyway or what, but in any case, I'm sure it'd pretty much ruin my day. Not ruin-ruin, but it's the best way I can think to describe a situation in which I'd be preoccupied then until I went to sleep that night, at least.


Wow, this is how I've felt the few times I've been hit on by _anyone_. :o

Well, that and a mixture of 'lol, someone doesn't think I'm hideous.'


----------



## Spoon

The very few times that a guy has hit on me, I feel just plain awkard. (I haven't been hit on by a girl, but it'd almost certainly be the same result.) I don't really know what to say to make it clear that I'm not interested without being too blunt. And considering it's almost always a friend, it makes it even more difficult. Like H-land and Spaekle, it kinda ruins the day for me.


----------



## ZimD

i don't get why some people care so much more when someone who is gay hits on them than they do when its someone straight of the opposite gender who they don't like. either way it's someone who is interested in you and you aren't in them, why does it matter more when they're the gender you don't like? someone straight who is more creeped out by being hit on by gay people than by straight people of the opposite gender explain this plz

also i'm probably bi, i might be gay idk i'm not going to claim to totally have myself figured out at age fourteen, but i'm definitely not straight


----------



## Autumn

Zim Del Invasor said:


> someone straight who is more creeped out by being hit on by gay people than by straight people of the opposite gender explain this plz


can't speak from experience (I've had straight guys and gay girls hit on me and both make me feel equally uncomfortable :V) but I would assume it's because they at least have the ability (for lack of a better word) to like the straight person back but not so much the gay person. Or perhaps they're homophobic. :/


----------



## Crazy Linoone

Can't say that I have much experience, but getting hit on in general makes me feel uncomfortable... 

I think I'm going to take back the "I don't know"; I'm going with asexual instead.


----------



## Elliekat

If I got hit on by a girl, it would be uncomfortable for me, since I'm hetero, but it would also be kinda nice to know that at least SOMEONE feels that I'm attractive and is also brave enough to let me know.

Although that is unlikely to happen here in ConservativeSuburbanville, PA.


----------



## ZimD

why would it be worse because it's a girl, than a guy you aren't interested in? if it's a guy, you aren't interested because he's a douche or annoying or creepy or ugly or whatever problem you have with that specific guy. if it's a girl, you aren't interested because it's a girl. why is there any difference, either way you aren't interested and i don't see why it's so much of a bigger deal for it to be a girl than a guy you aren't interested. and i'd like someone straight to explain why. it comes off as homophobia to me, tbh.

(if you're a straight guy just replace the genders throughout this post)


----------



## Elliekat

Well, it's probably because I have spent my whole life in ConservativeSuburbanville PA, but I probably an a liiiitle bit homophobic, yes. And also, I have issues when I have to confront people. So, in answer, I'd probably be as uncomfortable if I was hit on by a guy I had no interest in, also. I wouldn't know, though, because none of those have ever happened :P


----------



## Lorem Ipsum

Elliekat said:


> Well, it's probably because I have spent my whole life in ConservativeSuburbanville PA, but I probably an a liiiitle bit homophobic, yes. And also, I have issues when I have to confront people. So, in answer, I'd probably be as uncomfortable if I was hit on by a guy I had no interest in, also. I wouldn't know, though, because none of those have ever happened :P


Why does where you were brought up matter? Seriously? A person can make their own decisions. For what precise reasons are you a little bit homophobic?


----------



## Elliekat

I know I can make my own decisions. It's just that all my life I've been around hetero people, and now that I'm getting older and meeting homo/bi/whatever people, it just feels a little uncomfortable. Sometimes though, it doesn't matter- one of my friends just told me she was bi, but I usually forget that when we hang out :P


----------



## Murkrow

Elliekat said:


> I know I can make my own decisions. It's just that all my life I've been around hetero people, and now that I'm getting older and meeting homo/bi/whatever people, it just feels a little uncomfortable. Sometimes though, it doesn't matter- one of my friends just told me she was bi, but I usually forget that when we hang out :P


Unless your friend talks about nothing except being bi, which I doubt, I don't see why you wouldn't 'forget'. I wouldn't think people's sexuality is one of the main things you think about when talking to them.


----------



## Harlequin

I always feel upset and disappointed when girls are attracted to me. I also feel guilty that I can't actually go through with anything, because most of the girls who like me are really nice, pretty and interesting girls.

It's upsetting and disappointing. Both because I feel like I've failed them _and_ because they're not men.


----------



## Minish

Elliekat said:


> I know I can make my own decisions. It's just that all my life I've been around hetero people, and now that I'm getting older and meeting homo/bi/whatever people, it just feels a little uncomfortable. Sometimes though, it doesn't matter- one of my friends just told me she was bi, but I usually forget that when we hang out :P


But... you just acknowledged that you're aware that you might be homophobic because of your unbringing. You seem to realise that gay/bi people or whatever are just like everyone else, so how _can_ you be homophobic? I'm confused. :/

Forget it? What, would you expect it to always be the thing on your mind? That doesn't really make any sense either.


----------



## Jolty

Elliekat said:


> I know I can make my own decisions. It's just that all my life I've been around hetero people, and now that I'm getting older and meeting homo/bi/whatever people, it just feels a little uncomfortable. Sometimes though, it doesn't matter- one of my friends just told me she was bi, but I usually forget that when we hang out :P


EVERYONE their whole life has been around heterosexual people, that is no excuse

I didn't know any non-heterosexual people outside the internet for a good few years after coming out


----------



## opaltiger

Cirrus said:


> But... you just acknowledged that you're aware that you might be homophobic because of your unbringing. You seem to realise that gay/bi people or whatever are just like everyone else, so how _can_ you be homophobic? I'm confused. :/


I am willing to bet that, if you were to be in an area where you were the minority - say, racially - you would notice. You might even feel a little uncomfortable. Everyone is, on some subconscious level, racist to some degree. Elliekat is, I imagine, homophobic in the same way. Perhaps you may not see that as racist/homophobic, but I think it is.


----------



## goldenquagsire

also, bear in mind that upbringing can have a significant effect on your outlook in life. even though we all have the capability to make up our own minds about stuff, if we've been brought up to believe something - especially if, like Elliekat, we've been raised in a strongly conservative environment - then it will still imprint on our minds even if we try to adopt more rational beliefs.

the fact that she recognises her faults means that she'll probably eventually discard her prejudices.


----------



## Ryan the Terrible

goldenquagsire said:


> also, bear in mind that upbringing can have a significant effect on your outlook in life. even though we all have the capability to make up our own minds about stuff, if we've been brought up to believe something - especially if, like Elliekat, we've been raised in a strongly conservative environment - then it will still imprint on our minds even if we try to adopt more rational beliefs.
> 
> the fact that she recognises her faults means that she'll probably eventually discard her prejudices.


I completely agree. Coincidentally, I live in a town of the same name as Elliekat's in Missouri, and it was a good four or five years since I started being attracted to men that I finally came to accept that I was gay. During that time, I tried to push the feelings out of my head and start liking girls, and went into a depressed state a few times. Even after I came to terms with it, my prejudices didn't completely go away. It took a long time, until pretty recently actually, that I got to the point where I thought of gay people as deserving of everything straight people have. Up to this day, I have never knowingly met an openly non-heterosexual person outside of the Internet.

I think she's on the right track, and as you said, she will almost definitely discard her prejudices in time.


----------



## ArceusPalkia916

Im straight.But that can change for people over time


----------



## Nova Prime

Hetero. It's a strong feeling for me, and I am mainly sexually attracted to men. That said, I strongly believe that a person simply cannot be 100% of any one sexuality. I like to hear people talk about someone they'd 'turn gay for', even in a joking manner, because it shows that the thought has crossed their mind. I think it is quite healthy.

I'm no exception; I know what features I find attractive in women, and I've entertained the notion of a sexual encounter with a woman. I can appreciate an attractive woman when I see one and I feel there is nothing wrong with that. I think I like to stress my own open-mindedness so as to encourage it in others.


----------



## Tarvos

So Argentina has now legalised same-sex marriage.

I read Germany, Luxembourg and Finland have proposed it as well and they are still considering it in Slovenia (help me out here opal)

Portugal and Iceland did it this year.

Europe is making lots of progress. And good for South America.


----------



## Loffyglu

Watershed said:


> So Argentina has now legalised same-sex marriage.
> 
> I read Germany, Luxembourg and Finland have proposed it as well and they are still considering it in Slovenia (help me out here opal)
> 
> Portugal and Iceland did it this year.
> 
> Europe is making lots of progress. And good for South America.


Ah~! That's awesome, then! It always makes me happy when I hear news about this country or that country legalizing gay marriage, ahaha |3 *moar hope for humanity*

Let's see... hm, I'm actually not sure what I am yet; I don't want to say bi yet, though that's what it seems to be leaning towards, partly because that could change later on and partly because it feels to me like if I say I'm bi, some people will just call out "YOU'RE ONLY SAYING YOU'RE BI BECAUSE THAT'S THE ~IN~ THING FOR YOU KIDS TO BE LOLOLOL." :/ Hopefully, that's just my paranoia or the environment I've been raised in.


----------



## Hawlucha Fanatic

I... don't know... it's weird, it's like I'm half bi, half asexual. I feel romantic attraction to both genders and can appreciate bodies, but I *don't* get sexually attracted...


----------



## surskitty

That'd be biromantic asexual.


... I think I currently identify as awesome.


----------



## Teh Ebil Snorlax

Watershed said:


> So Argentina has now legalised same-sex marriage.
> 
> I read Germany, Luxembourg and Finland have proposed it as well and they are still considering it in Slovenia (help me out here opal)
> 
> Portugal and Iceland did it this year.
> 
> Europe is making lots of progress. And good for South America.


Ireland is getting civil partnerships. Some anti-gay campaigners of the "sanctity of marriage" variety are trying to get the president to refer it to the Supreme Court because they think giving civil partnerships similar rights to marriage is a violation of the consitutional guarantee of special protection to marriage. Gah. I wish 1916 had gone better, the Irish Declaration of Independence was way better than the 1937 Consitution.


----------



## Vladimir Putin's LJ

I'm still pretty shocked at Portugal having passed the gay marriage law, considering our right-wing President. I like how we waited until immediately after the Pope left to do it (like, he left on Friday I think and the President officially legalized it on Monday or Tuesday, haha)

iirc Finland is going to vote on it in 2011 and it's expected to pass.
But yes, Europe is progressing at a pretty rapid pace and it's great that the rest of the world is too!
Europride or some equivalent was hosted in Poland of all places, but there was a pretty low attendance rate, and guys on the sidelines spouted hateful bullshit and threw eggs, but it's still good that there wasn't an all-out riot like in Moscow two/three years ago.

This was at this year's Moscow Pride:


----------



## Lucas₇₅₅

I'm straight.

Oh boy.


----------



## Adriane

Vladimir Putin's LJ said:


> I like how they apparently think gays have some sort of straightdar, haha.
> 
> I only like men but it'd be very flattering to be hit on by either gender c:


Are dickgirls acceptable? 'cause like yeah


----------



## Aisling

Ketsu said:


> ...I'm not sure if I'm bi or not. I'm _sexually_ attracted to both genders, but I'm only _romantically_ attracted to men.


I think this might be what I am sort of. I'm not entirely sure. I've never had a crush on a girl personally, but... I can fap to them. And after a week or two I got over the shock of the prospect of my boyfriend becoming my _girl_friend, though she began as a boyfriend and was that for two or three years. So I guess you could say I've never wanted to start a relationship with a girl before? But I've been in one with a girl and was okay with it. so um. I guess I'm probably bi with a slight preference for guys? Everybody here is more experienced and versed in this stuff, what do you guys think?



Vixie said:


> Are dickgirls acceptable? 'cause like yeah


I love these too


and also, VPLJ that picture's cute >: Damn


----------



## goldenquagsire

Vixie said:


> Are dickgirls acceptable? 'cause like yeah


well in theory they're awesome (best of both worlds!) but in reality if I met one I'd probably shit bricks.


----------



## Vladimir Putin's LJ

Vixie said:


> Are dickgirls acceptable? 'cause like yeah


Of course!


----------



## Minish

'Dickgirls' are intersex people, right? Are there not less offensive terms you guys could use? :/


----------



## Aisling

Cirrus said:


> 'Dickgirls' are intersex people, right? Are there not less offensive terms you guys could use? :/


I'm pretty sure Vixie considers herself to be one for now... or at least I do. :v Some intersex people I guess yeah, but pre-op MTFs work too I would think.


----------



## goldenquagsire

I think it's used more in the context of hentai anyway, i.e. as the non-weeaboo equivalent to 'futanari'.


----------



## Zuu

it's a great word anyway.


----------



## octobr

TRAPS are pretty hot

It's all personal preference really, you'd be surprised how many girls who have transitioned but kept their penises call themselves traps or other 'offensive' words.


----------



## Flora

sooooo i'm probably bi but kinda confused.

if i tell anyone it'll probably be my mom

though one of my friends is all like "BISEXUALITY IS JUST A ~STAGE~" and is basically of the mindset that if one identifies as bi then they are automatically gay.

uh no.


----------



## Rai-CH

I'm heterosexual. 
One of my friends thinks that I'm a lesbian because I have never been in a relationship with a guy (or anyone at all) so apparently being single = lesbian :|

I do get kind of uncomfortable when other girls hug me or try to grope me and get their hands up my skirt (which my friends have done to me quite a few times), so I guess that makes me a bit homophobic? I also support gay rights and I find it awesome how different countries are legalizing gay marriage, people should be allowed to love and marry whoever they want! :)


----------



## Minish

RaiCH said:


> I do get kind of uncomfortable when other girls hug me or try to grope me and get their hands up my skirt (which my friends have done to me quite a few times), so I guess that makes me a bit homophobic? I also support gay rights and I find it awesome how different countries are legalizing gay marriage, people should be allowed to love and marry whoever they want! :)


No, this does not make you homophobic. :| Would you be perfectly comfortable if guys tried to grope you or get their hands up your skirt?

Also, your personal preferences have little to do with homophobia, but that's not really the issue here 'cause... friends groping you randomly seems kind of odd and intrusive to me anyway.


----------



## Tarvos

being fucked up about groping is perfectly normal since sex (whatever gender/object you prefer) is an intimacy thing


----------



## Vipera Magnifica

I'm somewhat confused as many of you are.

I'd classify myself as halfway between heterosexual and asexual. I don't feel attraction to men, and barely feel attraction to women. But that's okay with me because it means I don't have to be constantly controlled by some carnal instinct.


----------



## goldenquagsire

> I do get kind of uncomfortable when other girls hug me or try to grope me and get their hands up my skirt (which my friends have done to me quite a few times),


...and your friends think you're a lesbian?

nah, don't worry about it. some people are more touchy-feely than others, irrespective of sexual preference. although that does seem to be a little bit more over-the-top than just "affectionate". O_o


----------



## Adriane

Verne said:


> TRAPS are pretty hot
> 
> It's all personal preference really, you'd be surprised how many girls who have transitioned but kept their penises call themselves traps or other 'offensive' words.


:V


----------



## goldenquagsire

Vixie said:


> :V


I was under the impression that 'traps' referred to guys who are comfortable with their biological bodies but prefer to pass as women either because they dislike gender roles (a noble cause, yes), because the clothes are comfier (this... might well be true... not going to say anything more...) or simply for the lulz.


----------



## Adriane

goldenquagsire said:


> I was under the impression that 'traps' referred to guys who are comfortable with their biological bodies but prefer to pass as women either because they dislike gender roles (a noble cause, yes), because the clothes are comfier (this... might well be true... not going to say anything more...) or simply for the lulz.


To me, it's more rolling-with-the-punches. I have come to accept myself as a trap, furfag, whateva, pretty much. This happens with every 'minority' demographic.


----------



## Keta

I have to confess I'm ridiculously fascinated by futanari.

I'm quite sure I'm bi. I'm sexually interested in very few people at all, but that small pool has included both males and females. 

As for traps or reverse traps, it looks like an awesome concept on anime. But, I would imagine it would take a great deal of skill, natural endowment, and/or plastic surgery to achieve a similar effect in real life. Most convincing one I've seen was Ko Eun-chan, from Coffee Prince. (It's a great Korean drama by the way~)


----------



## ...

M'kay, a couple of months ago, I identified myself on this thread as heterosexual and biromantic. Buuuut now things have changed...a LAWT...and now I identify as bisexual and biromantic, borderline heteromantic. I don't know exactly what made me change, other than the fact that my summer was long, hot, and very, VERY emotional. I've even come out to several people already, and almost all of them are some of my best friends.


----------



## ....

I identify as hetero-romantic asexual.
I like people of the opposite gender, just not in that way.


----------



## Pwnemon

Mawile said:


> I identify as hetero-romantic asexual.
> I like people of the opposite gender, just not in that way.


This is probably around what I feel.

It's probably just because I'm 13 though. Anyhow, not sure if this was ever answered, but this is the distinction between bi and pan. A bi person will still only have sex with people they consider "hot", a pan is just as likely to bang Mr. Creosote as Megan Fox.

Sorta.


----------



## Flora

Pwnemon said:


> A bi person will still only have sex with people they consider "hot", a pan is just as likely to bang Mr. Creosote as Megan Fox.


Now _that_ is just discriminatory. Pansexuality is "a sexual orientation, characterized by the potential for aesthetic attraction, romantic love, or sexual desire towards people, regardless of their gender identity or biological sex." It has _nothing _to do with banging anything that moves.


----------



## Pwnemon

Hence the sorta. I realized that I worded that horribly. I guess what I really meant is that while a bi only bangs "Hot" people, a pan will bang people regardless of looks.


----------



## opaltiger

Pwnemon said:


> Hence the sorta. I realized that I worded that horribly. I guess what I really meant is that while a bi only bangs "Hot" people, a pan will bang people regardless of looks.


No, you worded it just fine. The problem is that that is one of the most _insulting things_ I have ever heard. Bisexuality refers to attraction to either sex - hence bi - whereas pansexuality refers to attraction to anyone, regardless of gender/sex/etc. Neither has anything to do with whether the person is "hot" or not.


----------



## Music Dragon

Pwnemon said:


> Hence the sorta. I realized that I worded that horribly. I guess what I really meant is that while a bi only bangs "Hot" people, a pan will bang people regardless of looks.


I'm starting to wonder if you're intentionally doing this in every topic that provides the opportunity.


----------



## Pwnemon

I swear I don't try.


----------



## xkze

Pwnemon said:


> Hence the sorta. I realized that I worded that horribly. I guess what I really meant is that while a bi only bangs "Hot" people, a pan will bang people regardless of looks.


excuse me for popping in here but


----------



## nothing to see here

So... what exactly _is_ the difference between "bi" and "pan?"  As far as I can tell, nobody really seems to agree on what the difference is, and the only thing I've really seen posted about the supposed difference is "pansexuals are attracted to people regardless of sex."
Um... one problem: how is there _any_ difference between "attracted to both sexes" and "attracted regardless of sex" when you belong to a species that really only has two sexes?

The only possiblity I can see distinguishing "pan" from "bi" is that "pan" would be attracted to people with some features of both sexes... but people with some features of both are not an entirely separate sex from "male" and "female", they're a person who has some features of both.  And as far as I've seen, the vast majority of these people aren't even born with features from both sexes; they start out as either male or female, and then get surgery, hormone treatments, etc. later on to change their bodies (sometimes partially, sometimes completely) to the other sex.  But if someone is attracted to both sexes to begin with, why would a person with features of both _not_ be attractive to that person?

====

Also, the "only-'hot'-people vs. not-caring-about-looks" thing has nothing to do with sexual orientation.  Everyone finds different types of people attractive, so what one person might consider "hot," another person of the _exact same_ sexual orientation might be completely turned off by.  For example, Paris Hilton: I think she's a hideous skeleton monster (and the way she acts makes her even worse), while a lot of people think she's "hot" for whatever reason.
If that's the only difference between them, then a "bi" person and a "pan" person have the _exact same_ sexual orientation... one just has different preferences about appearance than the other, or maybe one's just less picky than the other.


----------



## ultraviolet

Pwnemon said:
			
		

> I guess what I really meant is that while a bi only bangs "Hot" people,


ugh please stop ruining threads

you obviously have no freaking idea what you're talking about

go _away _already



> The only possiblity I can see distinguishing "pan" from "bi" is that  "pan" would be attracted to people with some features of both sexes...  but people with some features of both are not an entirely separate sex  from "male" and "female", they're a person who has some features of  both.  And as far as I've seen, the vast majority of these people aren't  even born with features from both sexes; they start out as either male  or female, and then get surgery, hormone treatments, etc. later on to  change their bodies (sometimes partially, sometimes completely) to the  other sex.  But if someone is attracted to both sexes to begin with, why  would a person with features of both _not_ be attractive to that person?


this is about right. I'm bisexual, and I'm attracted to women and men -  but _generally _not androgyny, third gender people, etc. the main difference is that _bi_sexual by name suggests two genders, where pansexual doesn't really discriminate between the two. If this is still confusing you, you can go and wiki 'third gender', or this is a good article too.


----------



## opaltiger

Like I said; bisexuality is attraction to either sex, whereas pansexuality is attraction _regardless_ of sex (or gender). There is more to gender (or sex) than a simple binary.


----------



## Minish

Pwnemon said:


> A bi person will still only have sex with people they consider "hot", a pan is just as likely to bang Mr. Creosote as Megan Fox.
> 
> Sorta.


_wut_

For the people that actually understand pansexuality, I've got a niggling question; if pansexual people don't discriminate between gender, would that mean that they can't really "prefer" a gender? I'm bisexual and I'm attracted to those who don't really fit into the conventional gender binary, but sometimes I'll prefer men and at other times women.


----------



## Adriane

Cirrus said:


> _wut_
> 
> For the people that actually understand pansexuality, I've got a niggling question; if pansexual people don't discriminate between gender, would that mean that they can't really "prefer" a gender? I'm bisexual and I'm attracted to those who don't really fit into the conventional gender binary, but sometimes I'll prefer men and at other times women.


Just like some bisexuals say they "prefer" one over another, pansexuals might have quirks or "preferences", as well. I think "girls" or more effeminate-looking people are more attractive from a visual standpoint, but there are cisgendered guys and FtMs/genderqueers I find cute and attractive, as well. I'm open to the whole spectrum, _per se_, I just lean towards effeminate as far as looks go. Yes, I understand that may sound perfectly hypocritical, but that's the English language for you.

As far as genitalia goes, I think penises are sexier than vaginas, but I'd have more "fun" with a vagina, I'd think. So, uh, both have their charm.


----------



## ole_schooler

Major support for all the other Aces out there ^^  ((For clarity's sake, 'Ace' is a semi-common term for someone identifying as asexual, at least where I'm from.  Also, it's a more fun name.))

Not to imply a lack of support for other orientations, or imply that Aces need "support," as such.  I still don't quite understand how they/we get grouped under the LGBT/ongoing acronym.  Perhaps because, if you're not "straight," you must go under the banner.  Or a fervor of acceptance, I dunno.

As for the whole bi/pan thing, as far as I can tell, no one actually knows the difference.  Heck, they don't know exactly what any kind of sexuality means.  They just pretend loudly and often.  Or perhaps that's just me. ^^ I'm inclined to go with the latter interpretation.

In slightly less flippant matters, I'd like to ask (or wonder aloud) why asexuality is so often seen as a "transition orientation," rather than a "permanent" one.  By that, I mean, for example, if someone says they're hetero/straight, they're not often asked when they'll change.  If they say they're homo/gay/lesbian, it's assumed that "yes, they're sure."  Somewhat more often, bis/pans will be asked when they're going to choose one or the other (or the other or the other or....), but that's often considered rude.  However, if I say I'm "not interested" in sex or closer relationships, it's often followed by something like, "But if you had to choose..." or "When do you think you'll decided?" as though this were just a phase, like being a teenager.  To me, it seems just as rude to assume I will/have to change as to assume a pan/bi/gay/straight person is going to change their minds.  It happens, sure, but it's never a given thing.
tldr; STOP ASSUMING ACES WILL CHANGE WAAAAAAA.  And don't assume you have to, neither.

Finally, I want to thank the contributors to this topic, as it inspired me to actually look up the Kinsey scale.  Turns out I'd been interpreting it wrong for years; I thought 0 = Ace, 1 = All/Mostly Hetero, and so on.


----------



## Dannichu

Aaah, I'm so with you there. Actually, I don't understand why transgender people are grouped in with gays and bis, either, since who they're attracted to doesn't really come into it. You can be trans and perfectly heterosexual. Aside from likely getting prejudice (and to a much greater degree) from the same people, they're not really group-together-able. 

I get really annoyed when people don't understand asexuality, too. Sure, I haven't ever heard of someone getting beaten up or disonwed or whatever for being gay or bi, but at least people generally understand what it is, and we get _some_ representation in the media, while just about every film, book, TV show or whatever has a romantic plot or subplot. LGB people have some media of their own, but society tells people unrelentingly that romantic attachments are _the most important relationships in the world!!!_ And that's gotta be pretty isolating for you guys :/


----------



## @lex

Dannichu said:


> Aaah, I'm so with you there. Actually, I don't understand why transgender people are grouped in with gays and bis, either, since who they're attracted to doesn't really come into it. You can be trans and perfectly heterosexual. Aside from likely getting prejudice (and to a much greater degree) from the same people, they're not really group-together-able.
> 
> I get really annoyed when people don't understand asexuality, too. Sure, I haven't ever heard of someone getting beaten up or disonwed or whatever for being gay or bi, but at least people generally understand what it is, and we get _some_ representation in the media, while just about every film, book, TV show or whatever has a romantic plot or subplot. LGB people have some media of their own, but society tells people unrelentingly that romantic attachments are _the most important relationships in the world!!!_ And that's gotta be pretty isolating for you guys :/


While I agree with you, you should remember that there's a difference between asexuality and aromance (or whatever the word would be). Being asexual does not mean you don't want to be in a romantic relationship.

But yes, the media, society and everything sucks because it makes it look like everyone wants love and sex. Eff them.


----------



## Not Meowth

Dannichu said:


> I get really annoyed when people don't understand asexuality, too. Sure, I haven't ever heard of someone getting beaten up or disonwed or whatever for being gay or bi, but at least people generally understand what it is, and we get _some_ representation in the media, while just about every film, book, TV show or whatever has a romantic plot or subplot. LGB people have some media of their own, but society tells people unrelentingly that romantic attachments are _the most important relationships in the world!!!_ And that's gotta be pretty isolating for you guys :/


I don't think I've ever told anyone I'm asexual (except here) and had them even think that was actually a thing :p Being aromantic as well makes it doubly annoying with the aforementioned insistence everyone has that EVERYBODY MUST BE IN LOVE OR ELSE GRRR. But then virtually everbody _wants_ to since hardly anybody is asexual and/or aromantic so that's not completely unreasonable.

Though it is fun when people think asexuality means I can reproduce by mitosis.


----------



## ole_schooler

Mike the Foxhog said:


> I don't think I've ever told anyone I'm asexual (except here) and had them even think that was actually a thing :p Being aromantic as well makes it doubly annoying with the aforementioned insistence everyone has that EVERYBODY MUST BE IN LOVE OR ELSE GRRR. But then virtually everbody _wants_ to since hardly anybody is asexual and/or aromantic so that's not completely unreasonable.


According to the great wiki that knows all, about 1% of the population is "asexual."  How many are aromantic isn't as easy to guess, but, even at that percentage, one would think there'd be _some_ literature/media/attention on it.  Alas, biology and society tell us life is for bonking, so bonking we must want.



Mike the Foxhog said:


> Though it is fun when people think asexuality means I can reproduce by mitosis.


Yeah, or that you're a plant, or a starfish.  ((Yes, someone asked me if I was "like a starfish." Yes, starfish have genders.  It wasn't a very...biologically-minded person.))


----------



## 1. Luftballon

I thought plants were sort of hermaphroditic? or am I just mixed up?


----------



## opaltiger

sreservoir said:


> I thought plants were sort of hermaphroditic? or am I just mixed up?


depends on the species. Some plants have both sets of sex organs (though self-pollination is usually avoided) and others, I believe, have separate male and female plants.


----------



## Not Meowth

ole_schooler said:


> Yeah, or that you're a plant, or a starfish.  ((Yes, someone asked me if I was "like a starfish." Yes, starfish have genders.  It wasn't a very...biologically-minded person.))


"Yes, I'm a starfish. I reproduce asexually and defecate from my mouth :D
Hey why are you running"

They were probably mistaking mitosis with the ability to grow back into a whole starfish if you chop it up or something. Which would be equally cool.


----------



## Tailsy

You could always be a shark! They make baby clones of themselves if there aren't any boy sharks :>


----------



## Stormecho

I once told a few classmates that I was ace, and was promptly told that meant I could split myself, that I was wrong, and that I needed to meet a hot guy and all my perceptions would change in a flash! But someone _did_ listen enough to ask me if I wasn't lonely with my clear disinterest in romantic relationships. I told them that I'm perfectly happy with friends, which just got me a load of weird looks. :/ That was an interesting math class. Didn't help that the whole thing started out from being asked why I kept refusing a make-over from one of the girls, which led to asking why I didn't care about appearance, and asking if I was gay or even _bi_ in a hushed tone. That confused me - is being bisexual even worse than gay in the perceptions of narrowminded people? O_o High school students - at least here, since it's a Catholic school - make no sense most of the time. 

My friends know I'm aromantic ace, though, and once I met up with them in the library. I struck a pose and announced that I had been called to a life of celibacy by God, whilst doing dramatic jazzhands. Given I don't follow Christianity, I got a whole ton of laughs from them. Fun times~


----------



## Not Meowth

Jessie said:


> You could always be a shark! They make baby clones of themselves if there aren't any boy sharks :>


But if they stop moving they apparently die for some reason. And I hardly move at all.


----------



## Music Dragon

Stormecho said:


> That confused me - is being bisexual even worse than gay in the perceptions of narrowminded people?


Certain people seem to equate bisexuality with nymphomania. That might be it?


----------



## spaekle

Oh yay, asexuality/aromanticism discussion. As I've said before, I'm in an odd situation where I'm pretty sure I'm aromantic but also pretty sure I'm not asexual. Which is apparently unheard of because all aromantic people are asexual too, or something. 

I mean, I _guess_ there's a chance of it just being 'not having met the right person yet' as I'm sure just about everyone I will ever explain this to will try to tell me. But I've gone my entire teenage life  barely even thinking about being in a relationship. I've listened to every single one of my friends talk about how they wish they had a boyfriend/girlfriend/etc, and about how they've had crushes on people and so on, and that... doesn't happen with me. It feels weird seeing people younger than me feel weird for not being in a relationship when I've never been in one and really can't care less. I don't even understand what makes romantic and platonic relationships different, tbh. I'd be fine with having a couple really open relationships, or just having friends with benefits. Anything more serious just seems to reek of "we're taking this more seriously than we really need to". :\

I've only told one close friend about this, but she's cool with just about every weird thing I tell her about myself. A few people have told me I give the impression of being asexual or "not interested in anyone", though. Probably because I don't really talk much about what I find hot.


----------



## ole_schooler

Mike the Foxhog said:


> They were probably mistaking mitosis with the ability to grow back into a whole starfish if you chop it up or something. Which would be equally cool.


As far as I could tell, yeah.  "Yes, I'm asexual, if you chop off my arm it will make a copy of myself.  I'm working on repopulating the world with mini-mes."



Jessie said:


> You could always be a shark! They make baby clones of themselves if there aren't any boy sharks :>


Hah!  I am using this next time someone asks.  Brilliant, brilliant, brilliant.



Stormecho said:


> I once told a few classmates that I was ace, and was promptly told that meant I could split myself, that I was wrong, and that I needed to meet a hot guy and all my perceptions would change in a flash!


Heh, sounds like my high school.  Although one girl, through her open-mindedness/snarkyness, was convinced I needed to meet a hot woman and I'd couple up.  Major props for not folding to pressure, though.  And for the hilarious comeback :D



Music Dragon said:


> Certain people seem to equate bisexuality with nymphomania. That might be it?


I'd bet that.  And, probably a factor in why many people prefer to be called pan than bi.  



Spaekle said:


> Oh yay, asexuality/aromanticism discussion. As I've said before, I'm in an odd situation where I'm pretty sure I'm aromantic but also pretty sure I'm not asexual. Which is apparently unheard of because all aromantic people are asexual too, or something.


Yeah, that's a common assumption, though due to the rarity of aces in general, and the assumption that aces are so due to trauma/repression/lack of hormones/not meeting the "right person," I can see why.  Generally, regardless aromanicism or asexuality, the bits still work, and still like to be stimulated, which for some reason shocks some people.


----------



## ultraviolet

I cannot understand asexuality/aromanticism (I know what it is, but I really... can't understand being that way). I've just realised how difficult it must be for you guys, with the media and everything. :c


----------



## Zuu

I guess I'm going to be the asshole and say that I don't see why asexuality/aromanticism is a big deal. 

it's unfortunate that some might feel alienated due to widespread romanticism but that's mostly because romanticism is supposed to be normal, and for a biological/evolutionary reason, as far as I'm informed.

'normal' is a stupid word, but I basically mean widespread among individuals of the species.

it's hard to express myself on this without coming off as a bigot or something, which is bad because I don't give a fuck whether you are asexual or hetero or homo or bi or pan or whatever. 

another note, people need to learn to distinguish between 'bi' and 'pan' better.

it is to my knowledge that pansexuals are viewed even more harshly than bisexuals due to misunderstanding, and for that matter pansexuals and bisexuals are way different than people seem to make them out, in my opinion.

in my mind, pansexual reads 'I am likely to be sexually interested in a person in spite of and not because of their sex or gender identity', while bisexual reads 'I am likely to be sexually interested in a person that is male, and I am likely to be sexually interested in a person that is female' (and I mean that as in m/f sex, not gender). it is for this reason I don't think anyone who is attracted to someone who is third-gender should identify as bisexual.

sexuality labels are lame and cumbersome anyway, and should really only be used for convenience when a more detailed explanation can't be given.


----------



## #1 bro

I really don't understand why you need to call yourself "pansexual"... "bisexual" tells people everything they want to know and "pansexual" I think carries more of a stigma (the very first thing that comes to my mind when someone says bisexual is the singer of mcr, the very first thing that comes to my mind when someone says pansexual is one of those satanist ritual-orgies). but do what you have to do i guess.


----------



## ole_schooler

Dezzuu said:


> sexuality labels are lame and cumbersome anyway, and should really only be used for convenience when a more detailed explanation can't be given.


This.  Very much this.  I mean, I agree with you on the points of asexuality being unusual/unbiological (there needs to be a better word for that), and the bi/pan differentiation seems to be different for everyone, but your last sentence is something I think people can agree on.  (And kudos for airing an unpopular opinion without being a jerk.)


----------



## Adriane

Zeta Reticuli said:


> I really don't understand why you need to call yourself "pansexual"... "bisexual" tells people everything they want to know and "pansexual" I think carries more of a stigma (the very first thing that comes to my mind when someone says bisexual is the singer of mcr, the very first thing that comes to my mind when someone says pansexual is one of those satanist ritual-orgies). but do what you have to do i guess.


Read Zuu's post.


----------



## #1 bro

yeah okay but if we need the tiny subtle distinction between "i like attractive people regardless of gender"sexual and "i like both genders"sexual then we also need like 1000 other sexuality names like "i only like girls and dudes that look like girls but no other dudes"sexual or "i only like women but the actual vagina doesn't turn me on so i prefer softcore porn"sexual or "i'm asexual EXCEPT for hermaphrodites"sexual and blah blah blah.

basically what i am saying is can't you go without complete strangers knowing whether or not you are a purely sexual creature TRULY are free from gender or a mere lesser bi sexual who only likes both genders, the unenlightened creature? i don't think people really care so much

Anyway as for me I am Straight. Probably like an 8 on the Kinsey scale or whatever the average is (i.e. I like girls and I want to fuck girls but every once in a while a guy catches my eye and I think "hmmm i kind of like what i'm seeing OH NO BAD THOUGHTS BAD THOUGHTS BLOCK THEM OUT"). I don't really have any fetishes either so I am basically a True Honest American, my blood runs red white and blue


----------



## Adriane

Zeta Reticuli said:


> yeah okay but if we need the tiny subtle distinction between "i like attractive people regardless of gender"sexual and "i like both genders"sexual then we also need like 1000 other sexuality names like "i only like girls and dudes that look like girls but no other dudes"sexual or "i only like women but the actual vagina doesn't turn me on so i prefer softcore porn"sexual or "i'm asexual EXCEPT for hermaphrodites"sexual. basically what i am saying is can't you go without complete strangers knowing whether or not you are a purely sexual creature TRULY are free from gender or a mere lesser bi sexual who only likes both genders, the unenlightened creature? i don't think people really care so much


It's not subtle--it's really quite different. Bisexuality is attraction to either sex. Pansexuality is attraction to any gender. I hate the binary, but that doesn't change the terms from being "different enough" to warrant different terms.


----------



## Zuu

I specifically denoted that bisexuality had to do with the male sex and the female sex and nothing to do with genders~ :X

I know what you're saying but some people inevitably want to know these things about you so


----------



## opaltiger

Zeta Reticuli said:


> Anyway as for me I am Straight. Probably like an 8 on the Kinsey scale or whatever the average is


The Kinsey scale goes from 0 to 6.


----------



## #1 bro

oh, yeah. I was confused sorry.


----------



## Mhaladie

Huh! I voted bisexual on the poll, but I think that like many others here, I didn't really understand the distinction between bisexual/pansexual, and pan really fits me better. I'd probably still tell people I'm bi, though, because I think I'd do a pretty bad job explaining to people that gender is not, in fact, a binary thing and what the distinction is and all. 

I can't properly say that I'm aromantic or asexual, because I definitely do have sexual/romantic attractions (even though it is a huge pain for me to distinguish them from platonic feelings...) but I'm _quite_ irrationally averse to and afraid of sexuality and romance and whatnot, maybe almost like a little kid. It might just be a phase, but for now it's pretty irritating. I almost _wish_ I were asexual, so I there wouldn't be such INTERNAL TURMOIL and conflict, but hey, what can you do.


----------



## hopeandjoy

Music Dragon said:


> Certain people seem to equate bisexuality with nymphomania. That might be it?


Oh yeah, that's why.

God dammit Mom, I'm not a slut or confused!


----------



## Tarvos

I am maybe 0.5-1. Kinsey scale. Almost entirely straight.


----------



## Michi

If we're going by the Kinsey Scale, then I guess I'd better admit it to tCoD if nobody else. I'd say 5.

I guess that would explain the avatar, sig, username, personality etc. XP


----------



## Flora

I'm probably a 1 or a 2. Most likely 2.


----------



## Zeph

Oh, we're being Kinseyish now? Probably 5.5 or 6. I feel I'd be able to be in an emotional relationship with a woman, but not... sexual.


----------



## Adriane

I kind of hate the Kinsey scale, if only because it  takes just physical sex into account.

A question for biromantic homosexuals: do you think you might/would have sex with a pre-op/non-op transgender?


----------



## Zeph

Vixie said:


> A question for biromantic homosexuals: do you think you might/would have sex with a pre-op/non-op transgender?


That's a very interesting question. I'd never thought of that. Hmm, possibly... Although to be honest (and blunt) vaginas and such kind of, well, repulse me a little, so it would make things a little difficult. Ah, I don't know.


----------



## Adriane

Zephyrous Castform said:


> That's a very interesting question. I'd never thought of that. Hmm, possibly... Although to be honest (and blunt) vaginas and such kind of, well, repulse me a little, so it would make things a little difficult. Ah, I don't know.


What about girls with penises?


----------



## Zuu

girls with penises are awesome.

I'll look up the Kinsey scale in a mo.

I'm thinking I'm a 2, maybe a 3?


----------



## Pook

100% heterosexual.


----------



## Zeph

GW said:


> 100% heterosexual.


Technically nobody's 100% of either extreme, but, um, yeah.

Anyway - I'm not really sure if I'd do that either, Vixie. I mean, in general, I'm just not a big fan of, uh, sex with women. Not that I have any experience, but you know what I mean.


----------



## Dinru

Kinsey-wise, I think I'm like somewhere between 4 and 5.


----------



## Michi

Zephyrous Castform said:


> That's a very interesting question. I'd never thought of that. Hmm, possibly... Although to be honest (and blunt) vaginas and such kind of, well, repulse me a little, so it would make things a little difficult. Ah, I don't know.


This. :P

I myself could definately see myself in a _romantic_ relationship with a girl, but unlike all other guys I know I won't drool over women. To date I've been in one relationship, and it was with a girl who's still my 2nd best friend. Everyone thinks I'm single because I'm too much of a nerd to get a girlfriend, but only my 2nd best friend (ex-irlfriend) and two other female friends know that's it's because I have a huge crush on my best friend. Who is entirely oblivious to the fact I'm not even straight, and is most likely straight himself (though he has said he has a ton of gay/bi friends who are "awesome," and I'm just scared to say anything).
But an emotional relationship is the farthest I could even think of going with a girl of any sort. :/
And yes, I know how old I am, and yeah 14 is a little young to think of this stuff. You do not want to see inside my head. =P


----------



## Jolty

On the kinsey scale I'm like between 3 and 4, I only have a slight preference for men

I would have sex with any gender, but doing it with a female-bodied person kinda intimidates me a bit because I lack
things
yeah
I know there's other stuff I could do but y'know


----------



## Zora of Termina

Oh uh kinsey scale

I DUNNO I'm like kinda all over it lately. Like SOME DAYS I'll be all like 'ew vags' and then other days it's all like LESBIAN MODE and ffff I don't even know anymore.

If someone could change my vote to "I don't know" ifpossible, it'd be lovely, thank you.


----------



## Zeph

Little Monster said:


> And yes, I know how old I am, and yeah 14 is a little young to think of this stuff. You do not want to see inside my head. =P


Oh, no, it's fine! I knew I was at 14, as well.

...Oh wait what, I'm 16? Where did those two years go ;_;


----------



## Adriane

Zora of Termina said:


> Oh uh kinsey scale
> 
> I DUNNO I'm like kinda all over it lately. Like SOME DAYS I'll be all like 'ew vags' and then other days it's all like LESBIAN MODE and ffff I don't even know anymore.
> 
> If someone could change my vote to "I don't know" ifpossible, it'd be lovely, thank you.


Done. Assuming you voted hetero based on your last post.


----------



## Zora of Termina

Vixie said:


> Done. Assuming you voted hetero based on your last post.


Yes, that's what I voted, thank you.


----------



## Jolty

I knew what I was (and came out) at 12 ehehe

NEVER EVER COME OUT WHEN YOU'RE THAT YOUNG
WORST THING YOU WILL EVER DO


----------



## Lorem Ipsum

^ what happened?


----------



## Minish

Zora of Termina said:


> I DUNNO I'm like kinda all over it lately. Like SOME DAYS I'll be all like 'ew vags' and then other days it's all like LESBIAN MODE and ffff I don't even know anymore.


This is pretty much me. @_@ Maybe a 3.5 or pushing to a 4 on the Kinsey for me? I don't even know/care anymore these days.


----------



## nyuu

Lorem Ipsum said:


> ^ what happened?


Dad used to be a case manager. One of his coworkers was working with a young kid, around 13. The kid tells the guy, "I think I'm gay. I don't know who to talk to; my parents will kick me out and my friends won't understand" The guy asks the kid, "Shouldn't you wait until you're older to decide something like that? You're so young"

Even in an environment where the person you're coming out to can't really hurt you or threaten you, there's a good chance the person you're coming out to will say something really dumb and demeaning

What happened with you, though? :o

(Me? Kinsey scale. like ~2.)


----------



## Not Meowth

ole_schooler said:


> As far as I could tell, yeah.  "Yes, I'm asexual, if you chop off my arm it will make a copy of myself.  I'm working on repopulating the world with mini-mes."


Or, "stop confusing us with microbes or simple invertebrates, or the indestructible asexual army will rise up and demand acceptance D<"


----------



## Jolty

Lorem Ipsum said:


> ^ what happened?


>verbal abuse for four years
>people kept trying to beat me up
>I did get hit a fair bit though
>PE = worst fucking thing ever. Shit in there bordered on sexual harassment and /I/ was meant to be the not-straight one
>adults kept telling me it was a phase
>one time, one of the teachers-with-more-power TOOK ME OUT OF A LESSON to tell me it was a phase and that I don't know what I'm on about
>nobody did FUCK ALL to help me
>~*worst years of my life*~

If I'd not said anything for... a few years, I don't think I would have died inside so much.
But a few years on it turned into that shitty trend so.


----------



## Butterfree

I'm something... very low on the Kinsey scale. :/ I find some women very aesthetically beautiful (though those are never the ones commonly regarded as 'sexy'), to the point where I can spend a while just looking at them, and there are a lot of women, real and fictional, that I intensely respect and admire in a way that is maybe sort of crush-like. But with men there's just something altogether different going on. I want to touch men; I don't want to touch women. I pay some sort of attention to men's bodies; I don't for women. I get giddy over blatant fanservice featuring hot men; I just variously laugh or roll my eyes or get annoyed at fanservice involving women, even those I find extremely pretty.

I'm inclined to call what I feel towards men romantic/sexual attraction and what I feel towards women not, but really, I don't know how people generally define these things; maybe I'm actually biromantic in some sense. All I know is that there is a very pronounced and consistent distinction between the sexes for me.


----------



## Firelord Alex

I've never told anyone this before, but I am a homosexual.  I've known for a couple years, but looking back, I had a lot of homosexual tendencies.  I'm glad I can say this without being yelled at or being disowned or something.


----------



## 1. Luftballon

(around here, you're more likely to be yelled at or debated with for being heterosexual.)


----------



## Jolty

sreservoir said:


> (around here, you're more likely to be yelled at or debated with for being heterosexual.)


fuckin breeders get them off my internets

no, people only get yelled at for being homophobic or something, not for being heterosexual jeez :|


----------



## 1. Luftballon

more likely. and there is occasionally a tendency for people who claim heterosexuality to be questioned fiercely about their beliefs. hrml.


----------



## Minish

sreservoir said:


> more likely. and there is occasionally a tendency for people who claim heterosexuality to be questioned fiercely about their beliefs. hrml.


..._eh_?

Where the hell did you get this idea?

Most of the odd Christians who attempt to argue horribly conservative ideas here get shot down pretty fast and they tend to obviously be heterosexual, if that's what you mean about beliefs. But I find it kind of offensive you're insinuating that that's because of their _sexuality_ of all things. :/

Also, the poll? Nearly half of the forum are straight?


----------



## Zuu

no, I believe res means the people that are like "now, I'm not gay, but" and "I'm 100% straight" and then, typically, most people jump on them for it. that does happen.


----------



## Shadow Serenity

Cirrus said:


> Also, the poll? Nearly half of the forum are straight?


My guess would be that several people vote and then are pretty much never heard from again. The forum has a lot of registered users that don't post. :/


----------



## Adriane

Shadow Serenity said:


> My guess would be that several people vote and then are pretty much never heard from again. The forum has a lot of registered users that don't post. :/


The forum has 374 active members. There are 162 votes in the poll.


----------



## ...

Excellent observation, Miss Fox. But what is the exact definition of an active member?

Plus, there's got to be someone besides me out of those 162 people who did originally vote hetero but have since changed.


----------



## Zuu

Ryubane said:


> Plus, there's got to be someone besides me out of those 162 people who did originally vote hetero but have since changed.


not necessarily.


----------



## Vipera Magnifica

Ryubane said:


> Excellent observation, Miss Fox. But what is the exact definition of an active member?
> 
> Plus, there's got to be someone besides me out of those 162 people who did originally vote hetero but have since changed.


Me.

I voted hetero, and now I think I'm asexual.


----------



## Lorem Ipsum

Jolty said:


> fuckin breeders get them off my internets
> 
> no, people only get yelled at for being homophobic or something, not for being heterosexual jeez :|


"breeders" is my new favourite word to describe straight people


----------



## ...

^I knew I couldn't have been the only one to think this.


----------



## bobbyjkl

My girlfriend goes by Chucho on the forums. :D


----------



## Tailsy

Lorem Ipsum said:


> "breeders" is my new favourite word to describe straight people


Not that its offensive connotations matter or anything :O


----------



## ...

Jessie said:


> Not that its offensive connotations matter or anything :O


That's what sarcasm is for.


----------



## 1. Luftballon

what's wrong with whatever connotations it has?


----------



## Tailsy

What, insinuating that all straight people have the desire to procreate and that makes them Horrible? 

Nope, can't say I see anything wrong with that at all.


----------



## Leaftail

I'm gay, and I just started to come out to people I know IRL. Five fellow students know, so according to my calculations, the entire school must've found out by now. I already told two of my teachers through things I said on my homework assignments. Monday will be the first day I have either of them since I came out... now I'm seriously afraid to go back to school...



			
				Jolty said:
			
		

> one time, one of the teachers-with-more-power TOOK ME OUT OF A LESSON to tell me it was a phase and that I don't know what I'm on about


...Oh God. That better not happen to me.


----------



## goldenquagsire

Kurusu Lapras said:


> I already told two of my teachers through things I said on my homework assignments. Monday will be the first day I have either of them since I came out... now I'm seriously afraid to go back to school...


whether gay or straight, I don't see why your teachers need to know anything about your sexuality. I wouldn't want to tell my teachers anything about my sex life. :/

friends and family is a different matter though.


----------



## Autumn

one of my teachers found out about my bi-ness.

then again it was through an essay I had to write for his class (which was _Creative Writing_) and an issue relating to my bi-ness was the subject I chose to wrote about.

he didn't give a shit that I was bi. :VVVV


----------



## Dannichu

One time, a guy in my GCSE English class (that I was disagreeing with over the interpreatation of a Shakespeare play, of all things) called me a "stupid lesbian" or similar, and the teacher grabbed him, threw him out of the room and yelled at him for fifteen minutes. It was rather excellent.


----------



## Zora of Termina

Dannichu said:


> One time, a guy in my GCSE English class (that I was disagreeing with over the interpreatation of a Shakespeare play, of all things) called me a "stupid lesbian" or similar, and the teacher grabbed him, threw him out of the room and yelled at him for fifteen minutes. It was rather excellent.


This made my night. :D

Meh, no one really ever knew what mine was, or cared. Mostly because _I_ don't know and never bothered to tell anyone.
Even if I did, they would have been more focused on the Super-Camp Gay kid in my class simply because he was way more of a spectacle.


----------



## Leaftail

goldenquagsire said:
			
		

> whether gay or straight, I don't see why your teachers need to know anything about your sexuality. I wouldn't want to tell my teachers anything about my sex life. :/


Bad idea, huh?



Spoiler



OH GOD WHY THE [expletive]ING HELL DID I [expletive]ING DO THAT



:( I don't feel so good...


----------



## Dark Shocktail

Kurusu Lapras said:


> Bad idea, huh?
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler
> 
> 
> 
> OH GOD WHY THE [expletive]ING HELL DID I [expletive]ING DO THAT
> 
> 
> 
> :( I don't feel so good...


Hey, don't worry about it. It's been done and mostly likely, your teachers won't care. Why should they anyway? They have you for one year, a couple at most, along with hundreds of other pupils, and once you're done at school and leave they get a new batch of kids to teach. =)

As for my sexuality...I'm not actually sure anymore. I can appreciate the beauty of both men and women and I don't think I'd really mind touching either. Chalk it up to lack of experience or something, I really don't know.


----------



## goldenquagsire

> One time, a guy in my GCSE English class (that I was disagreeing with over the interpreatation of a Shakespeare play, of all things) called me a "stupid lesbian" or similar, and the teacher grabbed him, threw him out of the room and yelled at him for fifteen minutes. It was rather excellent.


We have an English teacher who I'm almost 99% positive is gay (no purely straight man can exude such levels of camp!). One time in class, a guy said that a play he saw recently was "really gay". There was a stone cold silence when everyone looked at the guy. English teacher told the guy never to use such words again, while giving him the foulest look I've ever seen.

That's not the best story though. Apparently, once this teacher was chaperoning a year nine class doing a team-building outing. One activity involved rock-climbing. There was this one kid who was too afraid to climb the wall. One of the other kids said that "if you don't climb this wall, you're a poofter". English teacher excused himself, took the kid aside and yelled at him. And this is a teacher who never, ever gets mad at anything.


----------



## Tarvos

poofter, the best word in the english language


----------



## Adriane

goldenquagsire said:


> "if you don't climb this wall, *you're a poofter*". English teacher excused himself, took the kid aside and yelled at him. And this is a teacher who never, ever gets mad at anything.


whatthefuckamireading.png


----------



## goldenquagsire

Watershed said:


> poofter, the best word in the english language


but it doesn't have quite the malleability of 'fag'!



> whatthefuckamireading.png


Kids will be kids!


----------



## Tarvos

yeah it doesn't have the smoking connotation

(smoking cocks)


----------



## Dannichu

goldenquagsire said:


> We have an English teacher who I'm almost 99% positive is gay (no purely straight man can exude such levels of camp!). One time in class, a guy said that a play he saw recently was "really gay". There was a stone cold silence when everyone looked at the guy. English teacher told the guy never to use such words again, while giving him the foulest look I've ever seen.
> 
> That's not the best story though. Apparently, once this teacher was chaperoning a year nine class doing a team-building outing. One activity involved rock-climbing. There was this one kid who was too afraid to climb the wall. One of the other kids said that "if you don't climb this wall, you're a poofter". English teacher excused himself, took the kid aside and yelled at him. And this is a teacher who never, ever gets mad at anything.


Haha, my teacher was the same - we were 99% sure she was gay. Although there was another teacher who we were all were absolutely certian was gay, and then there was a school trip and he brought along a woman he introduced as his fiancee and she spent all day being stared at.

There are many wonderful British words for 'gay' X3


----------



## Jolty

bender is the best British word for gay
the best


----------



## Dark Shocktail

Pfft, I remember as a young kid telling people to get bent. Had no idea what it meant, just thought I was telling people to get bent out of shape. 

And I thought bugger had something to do with bugs :x Growing up English.


----------



## Ivy Newton

I _think_ I'm either heteroromantic bisexual or biromantic asexual. Or heteroromantic asexual.

But I don't really know.

Then again I'm only sixteen and rather inexperienced so the asexual part will probably change later on.

EDIT: Just wondering... is it possible to be heteroromantic homosexual or homoromantic heterosexual? I guess it would be, but it does seem rather contradictory.


----------



## Minish

Dannichu said:


> There are many wonderful British words for 'gay' X3


My favourite would have to be 'arsebandit'. It's just glorious. :3

'Bender' gets annoying because I can't read out the full title of Avatar:tLA without someone sniggering. :C Marketing it as 'The Legend of Aang' here was hardly helpful, because then you still get dialogue like "I'm going to become a master bender!" and it's just... yyyyyeah.


----------



## goldenquagsire

Dark Shocktail said:


> And I thought bugger had something to do with bugs :x Growing up English.


I love how relatively tame 'bugger' has become considering it explicitly means 'anal sex'. You hear old grannies and childrens' entertainers using it and they seemingly don't get the connotations. :)



> Haha, my teacher was the same - we were 99% sure she was gay. Although there was another teacher who we were all were absolutely certian was gay, and then there was a school trip and he brought along a woman he introduced as his fiancee and she spent all day being stared at.


Well, that's why our English teacher is awesome. He seems to be deliberately mysterious (he's mentioned a 'partner' but never ever specified a gender...). And I'm sure that on the last day he'll whip out a picture of his stunningly-hot girlfriend just to prove us all wrong and laugh in our faces.


----------



## opaltiger

Dannichu said:


> Haha, my teacher was the same - we were 99% sure she was gay. Although there was another teacher who we were all were absolutely certian was gay, and then there was a school trip and he brought along a woman he introduced as his fiancee and she spent all day being stared at.
> 
> There are many wonderful British words for 'gay' X3


Aww, I was hoping it would be this link. (warning: spoilers for QAF series 2).


----------



## Dark Shocktail

Mumei said:


> EDIT: Just wondering... is it possible to be heteroromantic homosexual or homoromantic heterosexual? I guess it would be, but it does seem rather contradictory.


It is. At least, homoromantic/hetreosexual. There was a certain point in history when romantic relationships between men were common place - they wrote long poems to each other, went out on occasions, almost as if they were dating. Given the time period, there was nothing sexual about the relationship. When the men married, they'd write sorrowful poems to each other. There's nothing to say that these men would be romantic with their wives but surely there were cases where the men preferred to romance their male partners rather than their wives. 

Source: Humon Arts hooray


----------



## Shadow Serenity

goldenquagsire said:


> I love how relatively tame 'bugger' has become considering it explicitly means 'anal sex'. You hear old grannies and childrens' entertainers using it and they seemingly don't get the connotations. :)


Ever read Ender's Game by Orson Scott Card? He had an entire alien species called the Buggers. He renamed them in every subsequent book, whether because he found out this meaning or if he just liked the new name better or some other reason, I don't know.


----------



## Adriane

Shadow Serenity said:


> Ever read Ender's Game by Orson Scott Card? He had an entire alien species called the Buggers. He renamed them in every subsequent book, whether because he found out this meaning or if he just liked the new name better or some other reason, I don't know.


Well, Card _is _a homophobic dick.


----------



## shy ♡

Vixie said:


> Well, Card _is _a homophobic dick.


He is? :[ Way to ruin that series for me.


----------



## surskitty

He's also pretty blatantly racist and misogynist, so.


----------



## goldenquagsire

Pentimento said:


> He is? :[ Way to ruin that series for me.


so what? the fact that he holds offensive beliefs doesn't impact on the quality of his writing. and I personally quite enjoyed the Ender's Game series whilst recognising his prejudices as a mormon.


----------



## Shiny Grimer

Dark Shocktail said:


> It is. At least, homoromantic/hetreosexual. There was a certain point in history when romantic relationships between men were common place - they wrote long poems to each other, went out on occasions, almost as if they were dating. Given the time period, there was nothing sexual about the relationship. When the men married, they'd write sorrowful poems to each other. There's nothing to say that these men would be romantic with their wives but surely there were cases where the men preferred to romance their male partners rather than their wives.
> 
> Source: Humon Arts hooray


That image touches upon a good deal of fetishes for me.
I so want to research this because it sounds very interesting!

Also I'm 16 and have never been in a relationship (i'm sorry but i can't take most high school level relationships seriously. pre-high school is even worse) so I'm not sure! I know that I quite fancy men, but the thought of having sex actually squicks me out. I'm so immature~


----------



## Tailsy

/HAD (HAS) A HIGH SCHOOL RELATIONSHIP
/_cannot be taken seriously ever_


----------



## Zuu

>implying relationships should be taken seriously in general

if it makes someone happy, who cares?


----------



## Tailsy

OH ZUU /handflip


----------



## Shiny Grimer

Jessie said:


> /HAD (HAS) A HIGH SCHOOL RELATIONSHIP
> /_cannot be taken seriously ever_


lol, it's not that.
It's more about the people in my high school than anything who have ridiculously superficial relationships that last a week and then they move on to another guy/girl and have more drama. I don't know; I really don't understand them and I've always found it hard to understand relationships like that.

it was stupid of me to say that though considering I am eternally single. :x


----------



## Tailsy

So you can't take superficial relationships seriously, then? Reasonable!


----------



## Tarvos

>implying high school relationships last


----------



## Autumn

a couple of my friends in high school had a relationship that lasted at least the entire school year. I say "at least" because they both graduated at the end of the year and are going to different colleges; I'm not sure if they're still continuing their relationship. I found that as a pretty good example of a high school relationship that lasted, though.


----------



## Harlequin

Superficial and fleeting relationships are part of the process of learning how to be with another person. They help form part of who you are and they also provide useful practise for _~*the real thing*~_ later on in life. They help you to learn what sorts of people you like and the people with whom you are compatible. They can also act as a symbol of status, which is an important thing in human society.

They serve a purpose. Some of them even turn into meaningful, long-lasting relationships!


----------



## Zuu

as much as I loathe to admit it Harlequin seems to have a point.

note: my most fleeting relationship was around nine months


----------



## Tailsy

Watershed said:


> >implying high school relationships last


Well I dunno, mine's lasted a pretty long time, all things considered.


----------



## PK

i'm in high school and the relationship i'm currently in has lasted two and a half years and counting


----------



## Dannichu

Harlequin said:


> They can also act as a symbol of status, which is an important thing in human society.


Urgh. I have a friend, who is usually lovely, but is horrible to all the girls he goes out with, treating them as status symbols rather than actual human beings. He has more superficial relationships than anyone I know because he absolutely cannot stand being single.


----------



## Harlequin

Dannichu said:


> Urgh. I have a friend, who is usually lovely, but is horrible to all the girls he goes out with, treating them as status symbols rather than actual human beings. He has more superficial relationships than anyone I know because he absolutely cannot stand being single.


Yeah, that happens sometimes. It's sad. :( Poor girls.


----------



## goldenquagsire

it's interesting that almost everyone who claims that high school relationships are stupid and lame and kiddy were single throughout their time at school. conversely, I've very rarely heard people who were in a school romance claiming that it was stupid and not worth their time.

I may be a ronery virgin, but I don't see the need for sour grapes. :)


----------



## Teh Ebil Snorlax

Watershed said:


> >implying high school relationships last


11 months and counting.


----------



## Tarvos

goldenquagsire said:


> it's interesting that almost everyone who claims that high school relationships are stupid and lame and kiddy were single throughout their time at school. conversely, I've very rarely heard people who were in a school romance claiming that it was stupid and not worth their time.
> 
> I may be a ronery virgin, but I don't see the need for sour grapes. :)


I was single, lol.

What I meant is HS lasting into marriage later. I think once you're 16-17 relationships will tend to last a while - but not for the rest of lives


----------



## Harlequin

And sometimes, just sometimes, a school relationship will end up as a happy marriage of over twenty years... until the boy comes out as gay! (True story)


----------



## Minish

Hell, I have two sets of uncles/aunts who had highschool romances, got married at 17, both women got pregnant at age 17, and they're still together. Now they're all in their fifties.

But still, while I don't think highschool relationships are silly or pointless or anything like that, it does bother me when they're taken too seriously. I have a lovely but very naive friend who reckons her current boyfriend is her soulmate and that they're going to be together forever... and it just breaks my heart because of how unlikely that is. :|


----------



## Autumn

My aunt and uncle started dating when he was in college and she was in high school. :x


----------



## Tarvos

Same for one of my uncles, who got with my aunt when they were 16. I mean, it does happen.

But it's rare.


----------



## Dinru

Watershed said:


> I was single, lol.
> 
> What I meant is HS lasting into marriage later. I think once you're 16-17 relationships will tend to last a while - but not for the rest of lives


My parents met when she was fourteen and he was sixteen. Still together two children and over 25 years later!


----------



## Teh Ebil Snorlax

My parents were both seventeen when they started going out. My friend Orla's parents were 16 and 18 when they started going out 20 years ago.

For something that's rare, high school romances leading to marriage seems surprisingly common.


----------



## hopeandjoy

My parents met at ages 15 and 16 and suddenly, romantic comedies seemed a lot more real. My parents are complete opposites, my mother is a social butterfly and my father is a work-obsessed (but in a good way) hermit who thinks everything is beneath him. (I take after my dad.)

They broke up once, while in collage, but got back together shortly thereafter.

They've been married for 23 years and have three kids.


----------



## Vladimir Putin's LJ

My parents met in their 30s, never married, had me, and separated in their late 40s.

I guess this is relevant since everyone's posting their family history


----------



## goldenquagsire

my parents met in their 30s (both had no previous marriages although obviously they did have exes) and didn't get married for another ~16 years, at least 15 years after I was born. and even then they claimed that it was totally for tax reasons and that it didn't compromise their socialist ethics at all. :P


----------



## Harlequin

In more traditional, rural areas it would have been extremely common for schoolyard relationships to blossom into marriages, especially half a century ago. Now, though, that's simply not true: people are going to university and "playing the field" a lot more than before, and there's no expectation to settle down and get married young like there was before.


----------



## Lord Mewtwo

Hetero, I love the male form; although I have yet to experience a relationship, guys have hardly noticed me especially in that way. I suppose it unattractive perhaps that I can not stand to dress/ look like a girl. I prefer t-shirts and jeans to dresses/skirts/makeup and girly shit. 

If I may have a dumbass moment though, what is pansexual? It is the only selection up there I do not know the definition of.


----------



## Adriane

RedRum said:


> If I may have a dumbass moment though, what is pansexual? It is the only selection up there I do not know the definition of.


Gender is not of concern when it comes to what you like. Boys, girls, anything in between.


----------



## Lord Mewtwo

Vixie said:


> Gender is not of concern when it comes to what you like. Boys, girls, anything in between.


Ok I understand, thanks for explaining.


----------



## Dark Shocktail

My parents met at their workplace. My dad was my mum's boss and she was married at the time. They got together when her marriage began to break apart (Dad had nothing to do with it). He had to ask several times before she said yes though. 

He also had to ask a couple of times before Mum agreed to marry him, and even then it was mostly because Dad didn't want kids out of wedlock (he basically said he wouldn't have any until they were married :x). So they got hitched and a year or two later, my big bro was born and etc etc. 

So yeah. My dad had a fiancée before that who changed her mind and my mum had an ex-husband. But they learned from their previous relationships and it helped in their marriage so I am told.


----------



## Lord Mewtwo

Ryubane said:


> Just don't confuse it with bi. Cuz there's a difference.


Yeah I think I see that; pensexual can also include animals or hermaphrodites I assumed.

Well and if we are telling parent stories in this thread as well; my mom was encouraged to meet my dad by some friends I think is what she said. He worked at the time at Stanford Hospital as a radio biologist(the best job he ever had from which he was laid off). He was 39 to her 19; they married in my maternal grandmother's backyard maybe a year later. She was 24 and he 44 when I was finally born on their fifth attempt.

They divorced when I was 3.

That is all I know; this is my mom's story. My dad likely would have had a different one had I ever asked him. They always had two different stories XP


----------



## ultraviolet

RedRum said:
			
		

> Yeah I think I see that; pensexual can also include *animals* or hermaphrodites I assumed.


er no I don't think being pansexual crosses species as well as gender; I think you're referring to bestiality.

EDIT: okay to clarify-

I'm bisexual - this means that I'm attracted to two genders (hence the _bi_ in _bi_sexual); it suggests a gender binary. I'm attracted to men and women only. Someone who's pansexual can be attracted to anyone within the gender spectrum: male, female, neither, both, third gender, and so on.


Speaking of which, I'm still not entirely sure why I'm attracted to men and women but not so much hermaphrodites etc. I mean. I'm attracted to feminine men and masculine females, too, but for some reason nothing in between ?_? Furthermore, I've had crushes/been sexually attracted to women I know, but I've never been in a relationship with one. I'm happy enough for this not to be a worry, but idk. I'd like a relationship with a woman to see how different it'd be. :I


----------



## Jolty

(isn't intersex the proper name for hermaphrodites???)

when asked, I just tell people I'm bisexual since it needs no explanation
I'm more pansexual though, I've been in a relationship with a genderqueer person (if that's even accurate?) and I wouldn't ever have a problem with being with someone who is anything else
...I should probably say I'm pansexual when asked though, y'know, educating people and whatnot :B


----------



## Tailsy

Still at 1.5 on the Kinsey scale. I've been attracted to women, but like... two.

(My parents didn't meet until my dad finished university, to be somewhat on-topic with the off-topic topic.)


----------



## ultraviolet

> (isn't intersex the proper name for hermaphrodites???)


_that's _the word I was trying to remember. I'm so forgetful sometimes.


----------



## opaltiger

> er no I don't think being pansexual crosses species as well as gender; I think you're referring to bestiality.


Though it might be adapted in case humanity ever comes into contact with sapient alien species.


----------



## goldenquagsire

Vixie said:


> Gender is not of concern when it comes to what you like. Boys, girls, anything in between.


I thought the distinction was mostly philosophical special snowflakery. Although the issue of transgeder etc. complicates matters, I'd have thought that most bisexuals wouldn't see it as a problem.

I personally wouldn't have a problem with dating or sexing a non-traditionally gendered person, but I prefer the term 'bisexual' because it invites fewer responses of "eh what?"


----------



## Minish

tbh I like the term polysexual best - I like men and I like women, but I don't like the implication with bisexual that there are only two genders. Bi suffices though.

...gone off pansexual, nobody seems to actually be able to figure out whether it has a point.


----------



## Harlequin

Cirrus said:


> tbh I like the term polysexual best - I like men and I like women, but I don't like the implication with bisexual that there are only two genders. Bi suffices though.
> 
> ...gone off pansexual, nobody seems to actually be able to figure out whether it has a point.


Well, pansexual will have a point when/if we ever find another sapient speices! It's just sort of pointless _now._


----------



## Minish

Harlequin said:


> Well, pansexual will have a point when/if we ever find another sapient speices! It's just sort of pointless _now._


I don't see how pansexual would be relevant there... it's attraction to all possibilities of sex and gender, not towards all sapient species (even though we only know of the one right now). o-o


----------



## Harlequin

What would you call someone who's attracted to someone of another species? Would attraction to another sapient species be bestiality? I don't think so, personally, and I'd rather call it pansexuality.


----------



## Minish

Harlequin said:


> What would you call someone who's attracted to someone of another species? Would attraction to another sapient species be bestiality? I don't think so, personally, and I'd rather call it pansexuality.


...to be honest, I haven't really thought about it! I'm sure another term would be created that's not already in use if we ever came in contact with a sapient race and inter-species attraction occurred.


----------



## Zuu

Cirrus said:


> ...to be honest, I haven't really thought about it! I'm sure another term would be created that's not already in use if we ever came in contact with a sapient race and inter-species attraction occurred.


perhaps "xenophilia" or something similar.


----------



## Crazy Linoone

goldenquagsire said:


> it's interesting that almost everyone who claims that high school relationships are stupid and lame and kiddy were single throughout their time at school. conversely, I've very rarely heard people who were in a school romance claiming that it was stupid and not worth their time.
> 
> I may be a ronery virgin, but I don't see the need for sour grapes. :)


Maybe it's because the people think high school romances are lame, so they stay single? And the people with high-school romantic partners have partners because they were open to the idea of high-school romance in the first place. 

I dunno. I'm (probably) asexual, so I can't really have any say on it either way.


----------



## Harlequin

Cirrus said:


> ...to be honest, I haven't really thought about it! I'm sure another term would be created that's not already in use if we ever came in contact with a sapient race and inter-species attraction occurred.


I like to think of these things. :B



Zhorken said:


> If we ever end up with that much room for different fields of attraction, it'd probably be way simpler just to describe yourself (like "I like other girls" rather than "I'm gay") than to try and assign everything a name.  I mean, we only have a little handful of these categories, and we're already getting confused over bi-vs-pan.





Zuu said:


> perhaps "xenophilia" or something similar.


I'd have a problem with the word "xenophilia" because "philia" as a suffix has largely negative connotations for most of society. A word such as "xenosexual" might work a bit better, but that falls into the trap of excluding people who like both their _own_ species and the alien species, and what if they're heterosexual and not attracted to all sexes of this alien species?

That's why I favour Zhorken's approach to this situation. I'd prefer terms like "androsexual" or "gynesexual" simply because it says which kind of genitals you like, but those won't ever be popularised for a bunch of different reasons.


----------



## ole_schooler

Y'know, for the bi/pan debate, I kinda like the term David Bowie uses.  At one point (I think) he said he was trysexual, he'd try anything once!


----------



## ultraviolet

Zuu said:
			
		

> perhaps "xenophilia" or something similar.


that would work unless everyone gets confused and thinks you're attracted to the Xenomorphs from _Aliens_.


----------



## goldenquagsire

Crazy Linoone said:


> Maybe it's because the people think high school romances are lame, so they stay single? And the people with high-school romantic partners have partners because they were open to the idea of high-school romance in the first place.


again, it's just conjecture, but I'm sure that if someone asked these people out, they wouldn't turn down the offer.

juuust sayin~


----------



## Lord Mewtwo

ultraviolet said:


> er no I don't think being pansexual crosses species as well as gender; I think you're referring to bestiality.
> 
> EDIT: okay to clarify-
> 
> I'm bisexual - this means that I'm attracted to two genders (hence the _bi_ in _bi_sexual); it suggests a gender binary. I'm attracted to men and women only. Someone who's pansexual can be attracted to anyone within the gender spectrum: male, female, neither, both, third gender, and so on.
> 
> 
> Speaking of which, I'm still not entirely sure why I'm attracted to men and women but not so much hermaphrodites etc. I mean. I'm attracted to feminine men and masculine females, too, but for some reason nothing in between ?_? Furthermore, I've had crushes/been sexually attracted to women I know, but I've never been in a relationship with one. I'm happy enough for this not to be a worry, but idk. I'd like a relationship with a woman to see how different it'd be. :I


Ok I see it includes hermaphrodites and transgenders as well as the Bisexual preference of both regular genders. I think I understand now.


----------



## Jolty

RedRum said:


> Ok I see it includes hermaphrodites and transgenders as well as the Bisexual preference of both regular genders. I think I understand now.


Transgendered people are as much of a man or woman as any cisgendered people though


----------



## Harlequin

Jolty said:


> Transgendered people are as much of a man or woman as any cisgendered people though


When we're talking about _gender_, yes, but when it comes to sex it gets a little bit iffy. MTF transsexuals generally come out it looking good with a good new vagina, but FTM transsexuals don't get as good a deal there. I'd find it difficult to be attracted to an FTM transdude and that's not because I'm transphobic or anything; it's because they usually don't have the right look, and if they do their genitals tend to be lacking.

but idk i've never been in a situation with a transman so


----------



## Heka

Hm, good question. I may wonder sometimes what i am. For about 5 years i've thought that i was asexual. But then i fell in love with a guy in my class and i trashed the idea of asexuality. But now that the guy broke my heart i've completely frozen. xD I start to wonder sometimes if i haven't got some homosexuality in me. I guess i'll have to wait and decide when i get a little older, i mean, i am only 14. I'm not really physically ready to understand my sexuality just yet. But i'll probably turn out as a bisexual! It would make me glad, bigger chance of a date in the weekend. And why not? Bisexuals gets the goodies from both genders. :D


----------



## opaltiger

Heka said:


> Hm, good question. I may wonder sometimes what i am. For about 5 years i've thought that i was asexual. But then i fell in love with a guy in my class and i trashed the idea of asexuality. But now that the guy broke my heart i've completely frozen. xD I start to wonder sometimes if i haven't got some homosexuality in me. I guess i'll have to wait and decide when i get a little older, i mean, i am only 14. I'm not really physically ready to understand my sexuality just yet. But i'll probably turn out as a bisexual! It would make me glad, bigger chance of a date in the weekend. And why not? Bisexuals gets the goodies from both genders. :D


The fact that you used the word 'decide' tells me you're thinking about this the wrong way.


----------



## Adriane

Heka said:


> Bisexuals gets the goodies from both genders. :D


Both implies there's only two :(


----------



## Tailsy

I love how pedantic everyone is...


----------



## goldenquagsire

Jessie said:


> I love how pedantic everyone is...


political correctness is swings and roundabouts. on the one hand, it forces people to think about what they say. on the other hand, it makes everyone into an amateur merriam-webster.


----------



## Tailsy

goldenquagsire said:


> political correctness is swings and roundabouts. on the one hand, it forces people to think about what they say. on the other hand, it makes everyone into an amateur merriam-webster.


----------



## Adriane

Ryubane said:


> "Bi"sexual suggests a gender binary...


But there _isn't_ a binary -- it's only a concept that doesn't actually exist. There are people who are "neither gender" or "both genders" or so many other in-between combinations that it just doesn't work.


----------



## Flora

Heka said:


> Bisexuals gets the goodies from both genders. :D


If you're lucky enough! In my case, you end up liking 90% gay guys and straight girls who claim there's no such thing as bisexuality :(

(you know how I voted don't know on the poll? well i know now.)


----------



## Tarvos

I feel like a minority for just liking women as a guy.


----------



## Adriane

Ryubane said:


> Correct you are, but that is why they have invented a term that we know as "pansexual" to encompass such things.


You said in your post that "bisexual" suggests a gender binary -- because the word acts as if it is really there, which it isn't. It has nothing to do with pansexuality. The binary _doesn't exist_, the majority of the world just pretends it does.


----------



## Adriane

Ryubane said:


> "Bi" and "pan" are completely different. Just about everyone here knows this. I know what you're saying; you've just kinda dragged my into an argument I don't want to be a part of. :/





Vixie said:


> You said in your post that "bisexual" suggests a gender binary -- because the word acts as if it is really there, which it isn't. *It has nothing to do with pansexuality. The binary doesn't exist*, the majority of the world just pretends it does.


----------



## Dinru

There are quite a few people who are fully aware that gender is not a binary, but are only attracted to the far male end and far female end of the spectrum and call themselves bisexual. Just because someone calls themselves bisexual does not mean that they are unaware of the gender spectrum.


----------



## Adriane

Dinru said:


> There are quite a few people who are fully aware that gender is not a binary, but are only attracted to the far male end and far female end of the spectrum and call themselves bisexual. Just because someone calls themselves bisexual does not mean that they are unaware of the gender spectrum.


Yes.

... and?


----------



## Zuu

Vixie said:


> Yes.
> 
> ... and?


to be honest I'm not sure what your point is.


----------



## ultraviolet

Dinru said:
			
		

> There are quite a few people who are fully aware that gender is not a binary, but are only attracted to the far male end and far female end of the spectrum and call themselves bisexual. Just because someone calls themselves bisexual does not mean that they are unaware of the gender spectrum.


so yeah this is pretty much how I feel! the word 'bisexual' does suggest there is a gender binary even though there isn't one; but honestly what other words can I use to say 'I like men and ladies but notsomuch inbetween'?


----------



## Adriane

Zuu said:


> to be honest I'm not sure what your point is.


Ryubane suggested that bisexual implies there is a gender binary. I explained why this is not the case. I have no idea what Dinru was actually trying to say there. Bisexual just means you like cisgendered males and females. It doesn't mean there is a binary.


----------



## ultraviolet

Bisexual is a convenient term for saying that you could be potentially attracted to cisgendered males and females, just as pansexual is a convenient term for saying you could be potentially attracted to someone of any gender. 

But bisexual _does_ imply a gender binary - hence the 'bi'. it suggests there are two genders only. I'm not saying that there _are_ two genders, but I'm sure that it's a fairly outdated term anyway.

edit: you know what nevermind because Ryubane just explained what I'm trying to say but better. :I


----------



## Autumn

what would you propose in place of "bisexual", then? find me a working prefix that doesn't suggest a binary and I'll shut up


----------



## Heka

opaltiger said:


> The fact that you used the word 'decide' tells me you're thinking about this the wrong way.


Oh, but please tell me what i do not understand? I agree, i do not understand some things properly. But to understand them i have to know what i did wrong. :3


----------



## Adriane

Ryubane said:


> Yes. The definition of being bisexual, of course, is that I am only attracted to cisgendered males and cisgendered females. Which, in the case of attraction, is only a binary and I am not attracted to anything in between, hence why I implied said binary. I know full well about what lies in between, it's just not within my spectrum.
> 
> YMMV, of course. Please understand. :)


You should've phrased it as such then to avoid insulting genderqueers. Sorry for being blunt, but I rather hate the pretentiousness in the attitudes in a lot of bisexuals. (e.g. "I swing both ways", etc.)

(Sidenote: Also please try to avoid using acronyms that have to be looked up to understand.)



ultraviolet said:


> Bisexual is a convenient term for saying that you could be potentially attracted to cisgendered males and females, just as pansexual is a convenient term for saying you could be potentially attracted to someone of any gender.
> 
> But bisexual _does_ imply a gender binary - hence the 'bi'. it suggests there are two genders only. I'm not saying that there _are_ two genders, but I'm sure that it's a fairly outdated term anyway.


No, it does not imply there is a gender binary. It implies you like two genders.



Leafpool said:


> what would you propose in place of "bisexual", then? find me a working prefix that doesn't suggest a binary and I'll shut up


Uh, the term is fine. People just need to stop misinterpreting it.


----------



## ultraviolet

> No, it does not imply there is a gender binary. It implies you like two genders.


... is that not a binary? o.o how can you say that I like _two_ genders when it's a spectrum and _not _imply that gender is also a binary?


----------



## Adriane

ultraviolet said:


> ... is that not a binary? o.o how can you say that I like _two_ genders when it's a spectrum and _not _imply that gender is also a binary?


That's like saying if you're heterosexual, only one gender exists.

Binary in computing is 0s and 1s. It doesn't include 0.1, 0.2, 0.3, etc. Just because you may only like the 0s and 1s doesn't mean everything else isn't there. They still exist; _it is not a binary *period*._


----------



## Minish

Vixie said:


> You should've phrased it as such then to avoid insulting genderqueers. Sorry for being blunt, but I rather hate the pretentiousness in the attitudes in a lot of bisexuals. (e.g. "I swing both ways", etc.)
> 
> (Sidenote: Also please try to avoid using acronyms that have to be looked up to understand.)


I know many, many, _many_ bisexuals, and all of them are extremely annoyed by the attitudes of other people who say that about bisexuals. Most of the time other people are like "So-and-so swings both ways" but the bisexual person obviously knows that isn't really how it works and is usually very annoyed. Maybe it's just that we've met totally different kinds of bisexual.

YMMV is a really well-known acronym by the way. o.o


----------



## Clover

Jessie said:


> I love how pedantic everyone is...


----------



## Zuu

Leafpool said:


> what would you propose in place of "bisexual", then? find me a working prefix that doesn't suggest a binary and I'll shut up


cisexual? :B


----------



## Dawn

-Blink blink.-

Well. I picked bisexual on this poll, although I am somewhere inbetween that and the "I don't know" category. I find males and females equally attractive (I've dated both, done sexual things with both), though it's personality that counts the most for me. Even so, I think the last guy I was seeing ...Broke me, or something. I really, really loved him. I invited him into my home, gave him my trust, and, long story short, he pretty much lead me on, used me for sex, "officially" got a girlfriend nearly a year later, and expected me to be fine with all of this. I admit, I was completely stupid. I shouldn't have put up with it for so long, but he wasn't clear with me. Ever. I always thought something would change.

Well anyway, I told him I wouldn't be seeing or communicating with him very much ever again. I'm over him now, and I can say that with confidence, but I haven't felt attraction toward ANYONE since then. There's been one or two people interested in me, and they're awesome people, but I'm just..Not remotely interested. Not even in like a "Hey let's fool around just for fun" sort of way.

I want to chalk it up to me not having met the right person, but I'm also wondering if something in me changed since that incident with Mr. Douchebag. I'm rambling now. -Skitters out of thread.-


----------



## Lord Mewtwo

Jolty said:


> Transgendered people are as much of a man or woman as any cisgendered people though


I never indicated otherwise although technically regardless of the amount of surgical procedure done a transgenders' original gender will always still linger in some form even if it is merely in the DNA as DNA is will always reflect the original gender as that is obviously impossible to change. What I meant however is for example sometimes the genitals will not be changed. Thus technically they are not fully either gender(or perhaps more their birth gender than the preferred), but of course are still people nonetheless.


----------



## Minish

RedRum said:


> I never indicated otherwise although technically regardless of the amount of surgical procedure done a transgenders' original gender will always still linger in some form even if it is merely in the DNA as DNA is will always reflect the original gender as that is obviously impossible to change. What I meant however is for example sometimes the genitals will not be changed. Thus technically they are not fully either gender(or perhaps more their birth gender than the preferred), but of course are still people nonetheless.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gender


----------



## Pwnemon

I agree with Watershed. I feel like straight people are a minority on this forum D:.


----------



## Zeph

Pwnemon said:


> I agree with Watershed. I feel like straight people are a minority on this forum D:.


According to the poll results, you are a minority! Sorry!

I guess, uh, Pokémon fans are gay.


----------



## Tailsy

well, TCODian Pokémon fans are.

I'm _mostly_ straight! ... Mostly!


----------



## 1. Luftballon

Zephyrous Castform said:


> According to the poll results, you are a minority! Sorry!
> 
> I guess, uh, Pokémon fans are gay.


actually, no, because of the "I don't know" sort. although, considering.


----------



## Lord Mewtwo

Zephyrous Castform said:


> According to the poll results, you are a minority! Sorry!
> 
> I guess, uh, Pokémon fans are gay.


What poll are you looking at? I see heteros dominating!


----------



## 1. Luftballon

the rest amount to ~40%.


----------



## Lord Mewtwo

Oh you are judging by the categories other than hetero as a total percentage? The hetero is still slightly ahead!


----------



## Flora

actually, non-heterosexuals on the forum (who voted, of course) are 55.1%, counting those in the I don't Know category.


----------



## Dinru

Vixie said:


> Ryubane suggested that bisexual implies there is a gender binary. I explained why this is not the case. I have no idea what Dinru was actually trying to say there. Bisexual just means you like cisgendered males and females. It doesn't mean there is a binary.


It sounded, to me, like you were trying to imply that that wasn't the case. 

Note to self: if lurking forums on less than 4 hours sleep, don't post.



Cirrus said:


> YMMV is a really well-known acronym by the way. o.o


It actually isn't very well known at all in the US.


----------



## Pwnemon

your mileage may vary

i learned that like last month

but what's hrml mean. res keeps using it and it confuses me


----------



## Tailsy

It's just a 'hmmm' sound.


----------



## shy ♡

YMMV is internet slang. It's not well known offline.

hrml stands for hey racist mother lover.


----------



## Lord Mewtwo

Flora and Ashes said:


> actually, non-heterosexuals on the forum (who voted, of course) are 55.1%, counting those in the I don't Know category.


Ah ok, although I do not think the 'I don't Know's should count as some of them could be heteros.


----------



## surskitty

I'm pretty sure most of the I Don't Knows are non-straight.


----------



## Lord Mewtwo

James said:


> I'm pretty sure most of the I Don't Knows are non-straight.


As am I. I never said how many might be strait as opposed to non.


----------



## Flora

I counted them as part of the not-straight group because occasionally I'll hear LGBT referred to as LGBT plus questioning, soooooo

I, for one, voted in the idk section, but I've realized my not-straightness.

(though I'm a weird case because I'm attracted to both boys and girls, but so far I've shown much more attraction to males.)


----------



## Dark Shocktail

I voted 'I don't know'. Because I don't know =/ I haven't been in a relationship yet , I haven't been measured on any sort of gay scale, I sometimes look at girls on the street and think "Wow, she's really pretty/cute..." But I mostly fantasize about males.

Weirder yet...I don't think I care that I'm a girl. I roll with it since it's what I've got, but I largely feel indifferent towards being a girl. I can easily pass for a boy by putting on baggy clothes and I have done before, even without meaning to. I wouldn't say I was transsexual because my sex isn't causing me any trauma, but I wouldn't say it's a normal standpoint either.

So...I guess I'm just going with the flow right now.


----------



## Clover

Flora and Ashes said:


> I, for one, voted in the idk section, but I've realized my not-straightness.


So. Out of curiosity, how many have voted, but would change/have changed their votes since then?

I voted idk too, and similarily I'd have to change it to 'homosexual' today. ... That sounds weird to say, haha. I only really started thinking about it seriously a few weeks ago. I had some reticence, mainly because I've always heard from gay people that they knew they were gay since they were ten or earlier or whatever, and I just went from "I have no desire for any sort of romantic partner of any kind" to "I guess it'd be cool to date someone" to "I guess it'd be cool to date... anyone" to "goddamn penises are gross ... and boys are generally unattractive. but girls are generally attractive. huh. well all right then." gradually over the last few years. But today I feel most 'right' considering myself as a biromantic homosexual. (Actually, funnily enough, it's sort of a mix of what Zeta said jokingly a few pages back - "I only like girls and dudes that look like girls but no other dudes"romantic and "I only like women but the actual vagina doesn't turn me on so I prefer softcore porn"sexual. [Except for the actual porn bit. Nyuergh.] Also, cisfem birom homosex should include nonop ftm, right? I mean, male gender, female sex... I include it, anyway.)

Okay, I feel good having said that. :3 I mean, I wouldn't tell anyone unless specifically asked, but... yeah. Eheh, this maybe should have gone in the LGBT thread. Oh, whatever.

Other question: how do non-completely-straight people find same-sex dates/partners to begin with? :s It seems like... for girls, at least, you can have a lot of girl friends, but I have no idea how one would go about getting a girlfriend. Realizing not only that both of you like each other, but that you ~like~ like each other, especially if neither of you is very open about it. Hnn.

(Of course, I'm not a hundred percent sure how girlfriend/boyfriend couples start. I was never very... successful on that sort of front. But uh so yeah whatever.)


----------



## Jolty

MidnightSaboteur said:


> Other question: how do non-completely-straight people find same-sex dates/partners to begin with? :s


the internets

BUT I AM A SOCIAL CRIPPLE so someone else would probably have a more useful answer ehehe


----------



## Tarvos

gay bars, hangouts, lucky shots, through friends at parties


----------



## ...

MidnightSaboteur said:


> So. Out of curiosity, how many have voted, but would change/have changed their votes since then?


Me. Voted hetero but now I'm bi in all definition of the term.


----------



## Dark Shocktail

MidnightSaboteur said:


> Other question: how do non-completely-straight people find same-sex dates/partners to begin with? :s It seems like... for girls, at least, you can have a lot of girl friends, but I have no idea how one would go about getting a girlfriend. Realizing not only that both of you like each other, but that you ~like~ like each other, especially if neither of you is very open about it. Hnn.
> 
> (Of course, I'm not a hundred percent sure how girlfriend/boyfriend couples start. I was never very... successful on that sort of front. But uh so yeah whatever.)


I have no idea either. A friend of mine had a buddy with whom she'd share milkshakes with (two straws, one glass style) and had actually kissed before. They were so close people thought they were dating, but they weren't since my friend is straight. It's really hard to draw the line - I'd always thought of this friend as a sister, so I wouldn't shy away from kissing her cheek or just giving her a peck on the lips. 

Boundaries are funny things. I still don't know how to draw the line with some of the friends I have now who are very affectionate/body free (you know who you are)! But I guess it doesn't really matter. I'm a straight talking girl. If I like a person I ask if they want to go out with me. They say yes (not happened yet), awesome, fancy seeing a movie on Friday? They say no, that's fine, no point in pursuing someone who isn't interested.


----------



## Zeph

Or just from, y'know, both sides of the couple knowing that the other is LGB? And from thereon it works like any other sort of getting-together?


----------



## Tarvos

i've heard it's much easier for gays to get together than for straight people even


----------



## Zeph

Watershed said:


> i've heard it's much easier for gays to get together than for straight people even


From experience (Experience!) I'd say that's true in a way, in that, you know, if you're both gay you're both aware of how... rare relationship opportunities come along relative to for straight people. So you're kind of magnetised I guess? But at the same time it's less likely you'll even find a gay person in the first place sooo that's both true and untrue (just to be confusing).


----------



## Squornshellous Beta

Aaaasexual!
Yeah, not interested in either gender. Friends yes, romantic or more nooo.


----------



## Tarvos

Zephyrous Castform said:


> From experience (Experience!) I'd say that's true in a way, in that, you know, if you're both gay you're both aware of how... rare relationship opportunities come along relative to for straight people. So you're kind of magnetised I guess? But at the same time it's less likely you'll even find a gay person in the first place sooo that's both true and untrue (just to be confusing).


that and most straight couples go through a lot of courtship. gays seem to just skip the step and get down to the sex a lot easier


----------



## Zeph

Watershed said:


> that and most straight couples go through a lot of courtship. gays seem to just skip the step and get down to the sex a lot easier


Wellll that's not quite the angle I was going for in my explanation! Nor can I say I particularly agree with it, but, uh, I guess that's a point too.


----------



## Elliekat

MidnightSaboteur said:


> So. Out of curiosity, how many have voted, but would change/have changed their votes since then?


I voted idk, but now I think I might be asexual. I am still extremely confused about myself though.


----------



## Pwnemon

If a transgender is attracted to the sex of the same gender they identify as, would that be homosexual or heterosexual?


----------



## Lucas₇₅₅

Hetero, I'd think.


----------



## Jolty

Pwnemon said:


> If a transgender is attracted to the sex of the same gender they identify as, would that be homosexual or heterosexual?





Lucas755 said:


> Hetero, I'd think.


nope.avi

homosexual
same gender
what's in your pants does not define everything
cannot stress this enough


----------



## Pwnemon

Well there's no question it's homoGENDERal, were that a word, but is it homosexual?


----------



## Jolty

Pwnemon said:


> Well there's no question it's homoGENDERal, were that a word, but is it homosexual?


homogenderal ain't even a word, son

I am a guy
I am sexually attracted to other guys
therefore, I have homosexual feelings for guys.

also,
if a trans man and a cis man had sex, it would still be homosexual
and penis-in-vagina is NOT the only way to have sex.
hell the trans man might even have a penis too


----------



## hopeandjoy

Yeah, I always thought that if a woman was born male and was attracted to males, she'd be straight and if she was born male and was attracted to females she'd be a lesbian.

Really, it's not that hard. A transgendered or intersexed person is the gender they identify as and thus both their pronouns and the term for their sexual orientation should be based around that.


----------



## Pwnemon

Jolty said:


> homogenderal ain't even a word, son
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Pwnemon said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> were that a word,
> 
> 
> 
> and penis-in-vagina is NOT the only way to have sex.
Click to expand...

No crap. Why am I always talked down to as if I don't know that 2+2=4?


----------



## hopeandjoy

Because you completely cut up Jolty's post to make it look like he was talking down to you.


----------



## Jolty

Pwnemon said:


> No crap. Why am I always talked down to as if I don't know that 2+2=4?


I didn't see the "were that a word" part, my bad
and omg it's 5 JEEZ

and your post implied that transgendered person + cisgendered person of same gender = heterosexual
SO.


----------



## Pwnemon

It was an honest question, not an implication. Your first post only addressed the gender part so I was trying to clarify.


----------



## hopeandjoy

Gender and sexuality go hand in hand, Pwnemon. Jolty did answer your first post.


----------



## Pwnemon

I've been informed that gender is what sex a person identifies as, whereas sex is what their pants tell you.


----------



## hopeandjoy

No, what I said was someone's gender goes hand in hand with their sexuality. Gender and sex are two _completely_ different things.


----------



## Pwnemon

Whoops I misread that sorry.


----------



## Jason-Kun

Lucas755 said:


> Hetero, I'd think.


Most likely since no matter how much you change your body you're still he same gender/sex you were born as.


----------



## hopeandjoy

Jason-Kun said:


> Most likely since no matter how much you change your body you're still he same gender/sex you were born as.


You really have no idea, do you.

A transgender person is the gender they identify as, not the one they were born as.

Though, as a cisgendered female, I should probably let someone who knows a little better than I do take over.


----------



## Adriane

Jason-Kun said:


> Most likely since no matter how much you change your body you're still he same gender/sex you were born as.


The whole point of gender is that it's _different_ from sex. They are _not interchangeable _terms.


----------



## ultraviolet

Pwnemon said:
			
		

> Why am I always talked down to as if I don't know that 2+2=4?


no offence dude but you kind of have a track record of saying incredibly offensive things which makes it look like (to me) that you don't know what you're talking about; like when you said that bisexuals only had sex with 'hot' people/pansexuals have sex with anybody or somesuch. since I honestly think you didn't _mean _to be offensive (because you don't strike me as someone who'd say something that horrible if you understood how offensive it was) I'm more likely to default to thinking that you don't understand too well. 

But Jolty was hardly talking down to you anyway, so um ?_?

ALSO EVERYONE who is misunderstanding sex vs. gender, this is a great article

actually scarleteen is a great site for most sex questions


----------



## Aisling

Pwnemon said:


> 2+2=4


I'm really sorry but I could only think of this and I lol'd so hard.


----------



## Jolty

Jason-Kun said:


> Most likely since no matter how much you change your body you're still he same gender/sex you were born as.


no
I am a guy now, I always have been and I always will be. I may have only realised I was male just over a year ago, and I may still look and sound feminine at times but my gender is NOT the same as the sex I was born as.

I don't even get your post man
so like... if a transgendered person did hormone treatment AND did several surgeries, including on their genitals, does that mean they are still the sex they were born as? even though they have the RIGHT set of bits now???


----------



## Minish

Watershed said:


> that and most straight couples go through a lot of courtship. gays seem to just skip the step and get down to the sex a lot easier


...eh?
Where are you even getting all of this?


----------



## Tarvos

Cirrus said:


> ...eh?
> Where are you even getting all of this?


Experience, anecdotal evidence, pretty much. It is, of course, dependent on the person, but most guys don't just go into a bar and pick up a girl just like that. Some do, but most people actually don't do that.

Gays and lesbians, however, go into a gay bar and have a much easier time of it. And this makes a lot of sense, biologically speaking.

See, the thing is: If a guy courts a girl, and they want to have recreational sex, there can be a lot of implications there. First of all, they need contraceptives because obviously you run a risk of getting the girl pregnant (not what you want). Second of all, there is the risk of STDs - and if you're picking up a girl in a seedy bar, what are the odds she's carrying gonorrhoea or chlamydia? Pretty fucken high, I'd wager.

In other words, if you're a guy fucking a girl, and you would just pick them up, you are potentially risking a) AIDS b) other STDs c) knocking up somebody and then having to care for a child, d) actually having commitment to a sexual partner.

D) isn't necessarily an issue of course, but if you are looking for commitment you shouldn't be at a seedy bar anyway.

Now suppose you're a woman at a lesbian bar.

A) the prevalence of STDs among lesbians is the lowest for any sexual subgroup. You are risking much less in terms of health than you are if you were a guy fucking a girl. B) You can't just randomly knock somebody up. Sure, lesbians can have kids, but it's a time-consuming process that doesn't come from general sexual intercourse between the two. C) this means you also do not need to have any commitment to a partner if you don't want it.

It simply makes life a lot easier.

Gay men obviously still have a higher risk of STDs. But they also lack any form of pregnancy stuff. It means that the risk of having random sex with a stranger is much reduced, because you're much less bound to consequences.

In the western world, knowledge about AIDS is quite prevalent, and most guys will routinely carry condoms on them, removing the STD problem.

(I'm not going to get into the trans debate here).

This of course doesn't stop lesbian or gay couples from having a good long solid fulfulling relationship, but a lot of gays enjoy this lack of commitment casually and I do not see why not, as sex is fun as much as it is procreative. And different sexual partners open up a lot of different sexual avenues to explore, ones that you might not try when you're stuck to a single partner because every person simply has their own sexual preferences.

Note that what I AM NOT SAYING IS THAT ALL GAYS GO TO GAY BARS AND FUCK 1000 OTHER GAYS IN A GIGANTIC ORGY, NOR AM I ADVOCATING THAT YOU SHOULD DO SO.

It's a general trend. It makes perfect biological sense.

And I am pretty sure that guys pick up a lot of other guys at gay bars. Some guys even have 100+ guys a year, and this is all fairly normal. Straight couples just don't get that usually.

The fact that gays don't need to commit and don't need as much courtship if they want sex is a perfectly rational biological phenomenon. This, of course, doesn't stop a lot of gays wanting that commitment and trust and loyalty from a partner, which is also a justified claim, but in that case, I do not think they are the type that frequents gay bars often.


----------



## Minish

Watershed said:


> that and most straight *couples* go through a lot of courtship. gays seem to just skip the step and get down to the sex a lot easier





Watershed said:


> The fact that gays don't need to commit and don't need as much courtship if they want sex is a perfectly rational biological phenomenon. This, of course, doesn't stop a lot of gays wanting that commitment and trust and loyalty from a partner, which is also a justified claim, but in that case, *I do not think they are the type that frequents gay bars often.*


First you're talking about couples, relationships, like everyone else was - and now you're going on a schpiel about how much ~biological sense~ there is in gay people picking other gay people in bars easier.

If I'm honest, I wouldn't say many people go through much courtship if they're looking in bars because they want sex, regardless of their sexuality.


----------



## 1. Luftballon

Pwnemon said:


> No crap. Why am I always talked down to as if I don't know that 2+2=4?


5


----------



## Tarvos

Cirrus said:


> First you're talking about couples, relationships, like everyone else was - and now you're going on a schpiel about how much ~biological sense~ there is in gay people picking other gay people in bars easier.
> 
> If I'm honest, I wouldn't say many people go through much courtship if they're looking in bars because they want sex, regardless of their sexuality.


Yeah but some people actually pick up other guys in bars, y'know. Go to a straight bar and pick a girl up and you need something really good.


----------



## Jason-Kun

Jolty said:


> no
> I am a guy now, I always have been and I always will be. I may have only realised I was male just over a year ago, and I may still look and sound feminine at times but my gender is NOT the same as the sex I was born as.


Okkay, well, that's your belief which you're entitled to, just as I'm entitled to believe otherwise.


----------



## Blastoise Fortooate

His belief about _himself_, whom he knows better than basically anyone else does or probably could.


----------



## Jolty

"ok you want to be referred to as he and him and wish to be known as a guy BUT I'M STILL GONNA CALL YOU A GIRL BECAUSE _I BELIEVE YOU ARE ONE_"

why do people keep pulling this on me, man


----------



## hopeandjoy

Except it's not a _belief_. It's a _fact_.

Your sex is the genitals you had when you were born. Your gender is what gender you identify as.

More specifically, gender refers to the norms and stereotypes society places on you. Little girls like pink, dresses, dolls, and frills. Little boys like blue, shorts, footballs, and mud. Women care about being pretty, crave emotional support, and have next to no sex drive but need one all at the same time. Men want to be manly and tough, are only in for the sex, and did I mention only in it for the sex?

So gender is both stereotypes and what you feel you are.

Seriously Jason-Kun, you come off as very homophobic and transphobic to me some times.


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## Tailsy

Jason-Kun said:


> Okkay, well, that's your belief which you're entitled to, just as I'm entitled to believe otherwise.


itp: worst way to get out of an argument


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## Pwnemon

Ketsu said:


> Men want to be manly and tough, are only in for the sex, and did I mention only in it for the sex?


I've never once liked a girl for sexual appeal.

Don't tell Jason not to be a stereotypical ass then go be a stereotypical ass. Do you realize just how offensive that is?


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## 1. Luftballon

Pwnemon said:


> I've never once liked a girl for sexual appeal.
> 
> Don't tell Jason not to be a stereotypical ass then go be a stereotypical ass. Do you realize just how offensive that is?


GOOD JOB READING THE POST


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## Pwnemon

I know Ketsu said, "The stereotypes society places on you," but still. It's goddamn offensive when anyone says that, even as a joke.


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## 1. Luftballon

Pwnemon said:


> I know Ketsu said, "The stereotypes society places on you," but still. It's goddamn offensive when anyone says that, even as a joke.


GOOD JOB REREADING THE POST


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## Flora

Pwnemon said:


> I know Ketsu said, "The stereotypes society places on you," but still. It's goddamn offensive when anyone says that, even as a joke.


_She was saying that those stereotypes are very rarely true._ It wasn't a joke at all.Pwnemon, you can be pretty cool at times but other times you tend to be a bit....oblivious, I guess?

Relating to that whole stereotype thing, my friends (hell, everyone at my school for the most part, though there aren't any guys in my school so maybe that has something to do with it) don't really scare whether they look pretty or not. And my best friend _hates_ pink, and by the way, is a blackbelt and could probably kick anybody's ass.


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## Superbird

Pwnemon said:


> I've never once liked a girl for sexual appeal.


You're only thirteen. See how the next seven years go, then make your desicion.


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## Tailsy

Superbird said:


> You're only thirteen. See how the next seven years go, then make your desicion.





> Age: 13


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## Superbird

^I'm not saying I'm not thirteen, I just think it's a little young to be judging. I'm not judging myself on that.


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## Butterfree

Ketsu said:


> More specifically, gender refers to the norms and stereotypes society places on you. Little girls like pink, dresses, dolls, and frills. Little boys like blue, shorts, footballs, and mud. Women care about being pretty, crave emotional support, and have next to no sex drive but need one all at the same time. Men want to be manly and tough, are only in for the sex, and did I mention only in it for the sex?


What bugs me about this view of gender, sarcasm aside, is that if gender actually consists of the social stereotypes associated with it, it's a concept that quite frankly has no right to exist to begin with, and it carries with it the unfortunate implication that people who identify as a particular gender are somehow agreeing to the stereotypes associated with that gender.

I'm quite happy with my biological sex, but my interests and hobbies are more stereotypically masculine than feminine, and if I say I'm female, I do not want anyone to associate that with pink and dolls and dresses and frills. And when other biological females identify as male _on the basis that their interests or hobbies are stereotypically masculine_, it seems to be enforcing this divide between the masculine and feminine and implicitly associating everyone who identifies as female with "feminine" stereotypes. :/


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## hopeandjoy

I know this-I am a cisgendered female who enjoys lots of "masculine" things and not very many "feminine" things. And I am considered odd for it. My mom thinks that it's just a phase.

A 14-year long phase.

Society has to change these stereotypes. They hurt both men and women and force people to act the way they don't want to. Unfortunately, that means _we_ have to change, and that is never easy.


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## Jason-Kun

Jolty said:


> "ok you want to be referred to as he and him and wish to be known as a guy BUT I'M STILL GONNA CALL YOU A GIRL BECAUSE _I BELIEVE YOU ARE ONE_"
> 
> why do people keep pulling this on me, man


...I never sad that. I said I was entitled to believe differently from you, but that doesn't mean I'm not going to refer to you by the gender pronouns you want to be called by. 

And, I see where you're coming from now. I've mostly seen the two used interchangeably, so I made the assumption that they were the same.



Ketsu said:


> Seriously Jason-Kun, you come off as very homophobic and transphobic to me some times.


Wait, where's this coming from? I'm not sure how you came cross the idea of me being homophobic,outside of me not wanting to be hit on by other guys.

As far as transphobic, yeah I wouldn't date a MTF transexual, but that doesn't mean I'd treat transexuals/transgenders ((what's the difference between these two?)) any differently from anyone else.


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## ultraviolet

> As far as transphobic, yeah I wouldn't date a MTF transexual, but that  doesn't mean I'd treat transexuals/transgenders ((what's the difference  between these two?)) any differently from anyone else.


well... I understand it as



			
				that article I mentioned earlier said:
			
		

> *Trans gender (TG):* Those who experience their gender identity  or expression in profound conflict -- as a major mismatch -- with their  assigned sex and things typically associated with that sex.
> 
> 
> *Trans sexual (TS):*  Transsexual people generally feel that their assigned sex doesn't match  their gender identity, and will sometimes seek out therapies or surgery  to help them match the two. Sometimes, TS is only used to describe  someone who is post-operative – who has had sexual reassignment surgery,  and other times, trans gender and tran sexual are used interchangeably.


I suggest this article, I find it to be very helpful :B


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## Ivy Newton

Jason-Kun said:


> outside of me not wanting to be hit on by other guys.


To a certain extent that part could be considered rather homophobic, as it's treating homosexuals as something bad (more specifically as worse than if a girl you didn't like in that way hit on you).


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## Jason-Kun

Nah, being hit on by another guy or a girl I don't like both get the same reactions from me.


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## Harlequin

Gay men are, like, hypersexual when compared with straight men. It's one of those thingies, right. BASICALLY homosexual males are at the same time more masculine and more feminine than heterosexual males, and an increased sex drive is one of the "more masculine" traits.

Plus, mainstream 'gay culture' is largely centred on gay bars and hook-ups, so uh, you basically just go to a bar, drink lots, have sex, repeat. Apparently that can lead to relationships. OR you join lgbt groups etc. um. yeah.


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## Tomatochu

I am bisexual.


----------



## Ether's Bane

I remember at the original vB TCOD, when we had this poll in 2007, the ratio of straights-to-others was about 70-30, while now, four years later it's about 40-60. How do you explain that? o.o

Bisexual, by the way.


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## Firelord Alex

Maybe non-straight people are attracted to this place.  I think magnets and gravity play a part.


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## Lili

At first I thought I was pansexual, but I'm pretty sure now that I'm straight.  Much to my father's disappointment.


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## Aobaru

Firelord Alex said:


> Maybe non-straight people are attracted to this place.  I think magnets and gravity play a part.


I thought only opposites attracted? 

Still 30-70 (in favor of males) bisexual, btw.


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## Clover

LiLiJANA said:


> At first I thought I was pansexual, but I'm pretty sure now that I'm straight.  Much to my father's disappointment.


Wait, what.


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## HeartHoppip

Well being transgendered I guess the issue of sexuality is a deep subject...

I mean, obviously the ignorant bigots in the world who see me as a man would say I'm homosexual but in the end it's how we identify as people, and I see my self as a heterosexual for I am a woman who is attracted to men o.o


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## Byrus

I identify as a heterosexual male.


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## Lili

Midnight said:


> Wait, what.


My father said he wanted a lesbian daughter so that he wouldn't have to worry with sex-crazed boys.


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## Blastoise Fortooate

LiLiJANA said:


> My father said he wanted a lesbian daughter so that he wouldn't have to worry with sex-crazed boys.


...

He prefers sex-crazed girls?


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## Lili

Blastoise said:


> ...
> 
> He prefers sex-crazed girls?


I guess so.  Father is a strange thing that I try not to talk to very often.


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## Crazy Linoone

Blastoise said:


> ...
> 
> He prefers sex-crazed girls?


Because lesbians are hot. Admit it.


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## Flora

Crazy Linoone said:


> Because lesbians are hot. Admit it.


I'm bisexual and not hot at _all._

(then again I don't actually publicize this fact and plus I'm both guy _and_ girl repellent anyway. Or at least the girls I crush on are 99% straight. (i have some doubts about the one)


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## Drella. ♥

_I DON'T BELIEVE IN SEXUALITY IT'S A MANMADE LABEL FOR OUR LOVE,

 GENDER AND NOTHING ELSE STOP LOVE! ONLY THE RESTRAINTS WE PUT ON OURSELLLLVES aaaaaaaaa_

... *cough*



...but, I guess you can call me Bisexual. |:


----------



## Tarvos

Guys. It's ok to chill about this whole sex thing, y'know...


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## Remember The Name

I'm just going to reproduce with myself. I'd rather manipulate my own genitals then someone elses. This way I will not have to worry about sexual harassment.


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## eagleDriver

I'm actually a really handsome potato


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## Shiny Grimer

Okay, this is kind of weird. Maybe I posted about this earlier but~

I've only ever found myself aroused by women. I've only ever found myself crushing on men and I'm in a romantic relationship with a boy now. I'm not _opposed_ to dating women, but I've never found myself interested in a woman. At the same time, I've never found myself aroused by men.

Would this make me biromantic homosexual or heteroromantic homosexual?

And yes, I know, labels don't matter, love who you love, totally agree with all that, but I'm just interested in knowing what this would be classified as.


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## shy ♡

It means you are sexually but not romantically into girls, and romantically but not sexually into guys. Heteroromantic homosexual works.


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## Elliekat

I seem to have voted 'I don't know' a while ago. For the sexuality part, I should be marked as asexual.

The romantic part is still I don't know, because mostly-aromantic-but-sometimes-biromantic-and-sometimes-homoromantic-and-possibly-panromantic-except-I've-never-actually-met-someone-outside-of-the-gender-binary is not up there :/


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## Zero Moment

I identify as strait, but in the relationship area I am pretty much asexual.


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## Jolty

Elliekat said:


> The romantic part is still I don't know, because mostly-aromantic-but-sometimes-biromantic-and-sometimes-homoromantic-and-possibly-panromantic-except-I've-never-actually-met-someone-outside-of-the-gender-binary is not up there :/


1) how on earth could you possibly be panromantic if you've never even met someone non-binary gendered

2) if you have romantic feelings at all you're not aromantic


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## shy ♡

Jolty said:


> 1) how on earth could you possibly be panromantic if you've never even met someone non-binary gendered
> 
> 2) if you have romantic feelings at all you're not aromantic


Please don't tell people what they are.


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## Elliekat

Jolty said:


> 1) how on earth could you possibly be panromantic if you've never even met someone non-binary gendered
> 
> 2) if you have romantic feelings at all you're not aromantic


1) Hence the 'possibly.'

2) Ah, some days I feel aromantic. Some days I'm romantic. Today I feel biromantic, Sunday I felt aromantic. It's a bit hard to explain, but it's how I am.


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## Aletheia

Mostly hetero, but there's a slight chance I might be bi. Who knows, man, who knows?


----------



## blazevonkarma

Im Bisexual o3o

It feels good to say it!I go to a strict Christian school where anyone that isnt straight is some sort of unholy demon!I couldnt tell anyone!

Its kinda weird loving both genders.I feel out of place at school...

THe worst part is that I cant tell any girls I like them.Ha,school...


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## Adriane

blazevonkarma said:


> Its kinda weird loving both genders.


There's a lot more than two genders, you know!


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## Aletheia

Fluttershy ♥;488639 said:
			
		

> There's a lot more than two genders, you know!


I'm sure (s)he meant to say sexes. Of which there are only three.


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## 1. Luftballon

SomeGuy said:


> I'm sure (s)he meant to say sexes. Of which there are only three.


depends how you identify unique sexes. it can get quite messy.


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## Karkat Vantas

Fluttershy ♥;488639 said:
			
		

> There's a lot more than two genders, you know!


I'm sorry, but I found this post to be a very silly one... we're talking Catholic school here. Do genderqueers really come into the equation?

Oddly enough I currently identify as bi, yet I voted hetero. This happen to anyone else?


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## Adriane

Karkat Vantas said:


> I'm sorry, but I found this post to be a very silly one... we're talking Catholic school here. Do genderqueers really come into the equation?
> 
> Oddly enough I currently identify as bi, yet I voted hetero. This happen to anyone else?


Y...es, they do. Just because you're enrolled in Catholic school doesn't mean you can't be genderqueer or trans. Most children _in_ Catholic school didn't choose to be enrolled there to begin with.


----------



## Karkat Vantas

...okay, sure, you might run into a genderqueer student. I'm not denying the possibility here. But is it really _that_ likely that you're going to run into one?


----------



## Adriane

Karkat Vantas said:


> ...okay, sure, you might run into a genderqueer student. I'm not denying the possibility here. But is it really _that_ likely that you're going to run into one?


It's just as likely as you would in any other school; I mean, I don't know any "St. Darwin's School for the Queer and Curious", do you?


----------



## Karkat Vantas

Fluttershy ♥;488724 said:
			
		

> It's just as likely as you would in any other school; I mean, I don't know any "St. Darwin's School for the Queer and Curious", do you?


Okay. How likely are you to run into a genderqueer at any other school?


----------



## Adriane

Karkat Vantas said:


> Okay. How likely are you to run into a genderqueer at any other school?


Given an estimated 15% of the population is a QUILTBAG of sorts, I'd say it's pretty likely. Not everyone is out of the closet.


----------



## Hiikaru

Karkat Vantas said:


> I'm sorry, but I found this post to be a very silly one... we're talking Catholic school here. Do genderqueers really come into the equation?


You can believe in a thing that says "being not cis-gendered is bad" and also be not cis-gendered, plus, you can be in a school with those beliefs without actually believing them. So probably there are just as many non-binary identified people there as in another school, only, they might be more in denial about it than the non-binary identified people in a school group that was okay with that would be (though there are plenty of other school groups that are not okay with that). Or they might not be in denial to themselves but they might hide it because they feel like they can't tell anyone.

Anyway, the point is that even if that poster doesn't know any non-binary identified people, they still exist, and so saying "both genders" is a mistake. A totally understandable mistake because lots of people grow up learning there are only two genders! But a mistake regardless.



blazevonkarma said:


> Its kinda weird loving both genders.


Hello! One, you're not weird. You're a perfectly normal human being and it's okay!

Two, can you not say "both genders" in the future? If you said "I like boys and girls", that would be preferable! Like Vixie said, there are more than two, so!


----------



## Sirius

I'm hetero. It's not so much that I'm not open to girls... I just don't feel any attraction there and never have. ^^; Men are hard to steer away from.

I have quite a lot of bi and homosexual friends and really try to support them, though. c: I'm so glad when I see someone be honest with their feelings and come out of the closet and decide to live how they want to. It can definitely be quite difficult, depending on your circumstances. You could always use a friend to talk to!

One of my best pals is my sassy gay friend. What they say is so true... I'd be lost without that fabulous man of mine. ;<


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