# Doctor Who Club



## Phantom

The last one died, got sent to page 2 where it will never return.

Anyways new season starts April 23rd, both in the UK and on BBCA. (this makes Phantom happy) And the first episode was the first _ever_ to be filmed in the US... In Utah actually... And yes I almost went to Utah. :D  

The episode takes place in '60's America, and already seems to have shown that once again River Song will be returning.... and the Doctor in the Oval Office? O_o


I get a lot of Doctor Who news, as you might be able to tell. So I might be posting here a bit.

Favorite Doctor?


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## shy ♡

WELL please don't post too many spoilers, DW is one of the few shows I'm a huge fan of but manage to watch spoiler-free each week. 

As for favourite doctor! I find it an impossible question to answer, honestly. I haven't seen _all of them_, sadly, only the revival doctors, but I love all the ones I've seen to pieces. They're all such brilliant actors and such brilliant takes on the character, and each time I watch each one, I'm positive that that's my favourite, definitely. And then I watch another doctor, and no, they're my favourite. But god, Christopher Ecclestein is SO GOOD and then there's David Tennant, and of course Matt Smith! Oh god they're all so brilliant. Dx The writing of the show itself, is just, it allows for their acting to show to its fullest. And I love them all so so much. <3


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## Lili

JOINAGE JOINAGE JOINAGE JOINAGE

My favorite Doctor would either have to be William Hartnell, Christopher Ecclestein, David Tennant, or Matt Smith.  Hartnell is just a grumpy old man traveling around with his granddaughter, not to mention that you gotta stick to the originals; Ecclestein.. well... he's pretty freakin' awesome and attractive; Everybody knows Tennant, and it's just so easy to picture him as the Doctor; and Smith is just smokin'.  Probably the best-looking Doctor so far.


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## Murkrow

I know he's the most well known and all that but Tom Baker is my favourite easily.

Those staring eyes of his... and there's just so many of his episodes that I love.


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## MentheLapin

*casually joins*

I only started watching at Series 3, and I've watched a few of the first two series since the revival, but none of the original series. Favourite Doctor would have to be Matt Smith. I'm like the only person I know who prefers him to David Tennant.


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## Murkrow

Flying Mint Bunny said:


> Favourite Doctor would have to be Matt Smith. I'm like the only person I know who prefers him to David Tennant.


Everyone I know thinks I'm trolling when I say that David Tennant is my least favourite (new series) Doctor. They ask how I could possibly like Christopher Eccleston, since he's apparently too angry for the Doctor, and I just think that David Tennant has rubbed off too much on them giving them an impression of what the Doctor should be.

He's not a bad actor though. It's a shame that a lot of his talent was wasted on poor writing.


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## Dannichu

Actually, I think Ten is my least favourite new Doctor, too. Nine is fantastic, had some amazing episodes and generally brought back the series with such a bomb, and then Eleven has been wonderful and perhaps a bit more true to who the Doctor is than Ten was.

And yes, I haven't forgiven Ten for 



Spoiler: The Christmas Invasion



what he did to Harriet Jones


 or 



Spoiler: The End of Time



Donna, for that matter.



Don't get me wrong, I do love him, I just don't understand "I can't watch it without David Tennant" people.

My favourite Doctor is Sarah Jane, who should totally count. She has her own companions, and a show that's more like Old Who than NuWho is. <3

Failing that, I'd go with Nine, Four or Eleven. I haven't seen a lot of the Classic series, though.

I can't WAIT for series 6! :DDD


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## Zeph

Obligatory join.

I know it will probably sound like the sort of NEW STUFF BANDWAGON jumping that is generally frowned upon, but I really do think my favourite Doctor is the eleventh. Granted, I've not seen a lot of the old series, and what I HAVE seen of Tom Baker especially is marvellous, but Matt Smith's character just has a... Thing about him. The sort of eccentricity and quirk that Tennant never _quite_ got (But he was also wonderful!).


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## Phantom

DT is one of my favorites, he's got the eyes that stare into nothingness and make it look uber intense.


I won't post too many spoilers. :D


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## Phantom

Doctor Who news update. The first episode of the new season will be airing both in the UK and BBC America April 23rd, and will be a two part episode

Descriptions of first episode SPOLIER ALERT


Episode 1: The Impossible Astronaut
Four envelopes, numbered 2, 3 and 4, each containing a date, time and map reference, unsigned, but TARDIS blue. Who sent them? And who received the missing number one? This strange summons reunites the Doctor, Amy, Rory and River Song in the middle of the Utah desert and unveils a terrible secret the Doctor's friends must never reveal to him.

Placing his life entirely in their hands, the Doctor agrees to search for the recipient of the fourth envelope - just who is Canton Everett Delaware the Third? And what is the relevance of their only other clue: 'Space 1969'? Their quest lands them - quite literally - in the Oval Office, where they are enlisted by President Nixon himself to assist enigmatic former-FBI agent Canton, in saving a terrified little girl from a mysterious spaceman.


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## shy ♡

This person draws a lot of Who. And some ponies. (And some pokemons.) Look:













I heart them. :D


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## Lili

Pathos said:


>


oh eleven you sexy sexy man  <3


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## Noctowl

I have only watched the series with the eleventh doctor... my boyfriend got me into it (while he got into it through his brother). I love Matt Smith...though I do love Rory more (I think its cuz he reminds me of my boyfriend though...). 

I loved the comic relief thing. XD Rory being a perv made me laugh. 

CAN'T WAIT FOR NEW SERIES PLEASE BE SOON.


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## Dannichu

I'm going to the States in a few days, which involves an 8-hour flight each way, plus a crapload of driving (NY to NC and back), and because I get motionsick I bought a few Doctor Who audiobooks off eBay to put on my MP3 player and keep me amused. And _then_ I discovered that my local library (which is the size of a cupboard and yet has its own Doctor Who section <3) not only has loads of Who-related audiobooks, but you can borrow them for free! :D 
I got bored on my 7-hour coach trip from uni to home, so I listened to a couple and I can report that a) Elizabeth Sladen is a fantastic narrator (she reads the SJA audiobooks, of which I now have four), and b) Matt Smith can do some amazing American and Scottish accents (demonstrated on The Runaway Train).

Has anyone heard any of the Big Finish audio dramas? I really want to check them out, but they're really expensive, and my computer/internet is too rubbish to download them ):

Pathos, those Who pictures are fantastic :D


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## Blastoise Fortooate

Haven't seen much of Nine, and he's my least favorite of the three, but that's only because I really like Ten and Eleven. I've seen a few of his episodes (I came into the series in the Ten/ant era and they're generally quite good.

*Favorite Doctor:* Ten by a small nose. Might change to a (bow)tie with the new season.

*Favorite Companion:* Donna, followed closely by Martha. Rose was alright but she seems a bit snobbish. Rory is a bit bland and Amy is really cool but she's been beaten to the category of 'awesome redheaded companion', sadly.

*Favorite Episodes:* Hmm. I like the Shakespeare one because it was one of my first and because of the HP references. I also like the french robot Madame Pompadour one and the one with Eleven as that guy's roommate. 

Oh, and 'Midnight' was amazing. 'Love and Monsters' was really creepy towards the end.

also some fanart I found


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## Kinova

should really be working now don't start talking Who don't start don't start

Heyyy! :D

Favourite Doctor is tricky - much as I think David Tennant's acting is really very good... scratch that. _All_ of the three most recent Doctors have been really very good actors, but character-wise - I don't know, I just loved Christopher Eccleston. It was his mad enthusiasm which brought the show back as a hit and I can't help but love him for that. I think Matt Smith is getting better as he goes along, but I liked him from the outset (The Eleventh Hour <3) and it makes me sad that people hate on him for not being David Tennant. :c

Favourite companion argrhrgedjfd I have no idea. I actually like Amy a lot. She's brave and smart and a little bit mad, almost Doctorish but still very human. Martha was good too - I liked that she was a bit more on the ball with problem solving than Rose, who did tend to have a habit of getting herself into situations she needed rescuing from. Donna was hilarious and the end of her series never fails to be completely gutting.

Favourite episode is equally difficult. 'Blink' gets an honorable mention for scaring me half to death while still being very clever and funny ('_You_ live in Scooby Doo's house'); 'Vincent and the Doctor' was excellent on several levels, and I loved 'Dalek' back in series one. Daleks were scarier before they got used, er, quite a lot. And then turned into Power Rangers.

The new series looks scary as really cool, I'm waaay excited about it. Especially the Ood. I adore them for reasons I am not quite sure of.

oops


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## Blastoise Fortooate

My eyes got a little blurry at the end of 'Vincent and the Doctor'! It was so amazingly nice of the Doctor to do that for him, honestly.

And the scene with the _stars._


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## Dannichu

Favourite companion is easily Sarah Jane :D But from the new series I love Donna most. I can't remember who said it, but "it's like he's her 900+ year old little brother" and it's so true and I adore their relationship. The bit where they meet back up again is beaten in cuteness only by SJ and the Doctor meeting up again (oh god, I came so close to happytears at that bit). 

Favourite episode? I lovelovelove School Reunion (Elisabeth Sladen and Anthony Head cancel out the rather rubbish plot), Blink and The Empty Child two-parter were fantastic, I always love finales where all the good guys work together to save the day, so I loved the S4 ending (but not the final ten minutes) and I have a _massive_ soft spot for The Unicorn and the Wasp. I know nobody else likes it, but I adored all the Agatha Christie references (They Do It With Mirrors! Sparking Cyanide! Cards on the Table!), Fenella Woolgar is brilliant (I _loved_ her in Jekyll), Agatha is every bit as awesome as she should be, and the whole Cluedo-murder-mystery thing really appealed to my crime fiction loving side. And yes, there was a giant wasp that a woman fell in love with, but we had the Doctor's detox scene, with lines like "How is Harvey Wallbanger one word?!" and we got to see the 'C' section of the Tardis' artifact section, so it _wins_. :D


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## Phantom

I love almost every episode, there are none I don't like.... except End of Time cause they killed my Doctor. If I have to pick one from the new series I didn't like it would be "Waters of Mars" and "Planet of the Dead" especially the last one, it didn't seem to fit in the story at all. 

Dannichu what part of the US you coming to? And oh the detox scene, especially since she kissed him after he just shoved down a rather large amount of anchovies.


Favorite Doctors? In order... I think...

10, 11, 5, 4, 9, 8, 2, 1, 7, 3, 6.


All I know is there better be some Ice Warriors and Demons in this new season, and the Master as well. It's about time for the Master...


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## Dannichu

Aww, I didn't like Planet of the Dead much (nothing really seemed to _happen_), but I _loved_ Waters of Mars because it a) gave us Adelaide, who is unquestionably one of the best single-episode characters in Who canon (in my mind, she, Sarah Jane, Harriet Jones and Mrs. Moore have monthly Awesome Middle-Aged Women meetings), and b) it addressed a bunch of issues about the Doctor saving some people when he goes back in time, but not others. Of course, it asks more questions than it answers, but props to the writers for giving it a go. And it's so SAD. ;;

My least favourite episode is easily Love and Monsters. I've seen some of the old episodes where hours can pass with literally nothing happening, but they're still less painful than Peter Kay as a man-eating blob. And the series 3 finale wasn't bad as much as it was very, very disappointing. 

The detox scene might actually be the funniest scene in Who history. I'm so happy Catherine Tate got a proper chance to show what a good comedian she is, and the dialogue is just brilliant:

Doctor: Salt! I was miming salt! I need salt! I need something salty!
Donna: What about this?
Doctor: What is it?
Donna: Salt!
Doctor: That's too salty!
Donna: Oh, that's _too salty_! 

So good XD

I'm only in the US for nine days, in which I'm going from New York down to North Carolina and back again. I'm going with my best friend's family - my friend is studying out there and I haven't seen her in ages. One day, when I have lots of money, I'm going to do a proper tour of the US and visit all the USians on here who'll have me :D

It'd be nice to see The Master again! I can imagine John Simm-Matt Smith interaction being _hilarious_. I sort of hope they leave the Daleks alone, though. Like Kinova said, they're like pantomime villains now, which is a shame because they used to be so scary, both in the old episodes, and then again in Dalek. But by the S4 finale, when Captain Jack and Sarah Jane are hugging their respective companions goodbye because a Dalek invasion spells certain death, it's a lot harder to take the situation seriously, especially when you've seen Daleks being taken out by a bloody robot version of Anne Robinson.


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## Phantom

Ha ditto. The new scary villians are the Weeping Angels... My friend says they aren't scary because... well sledgehammer.


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## Phantom

^Ace also beat them up with a baseball bat... Ahhh Ace whatever happened to you?!

I think the same goes with the Cybermen. Things are getting a bit old with them and the Daleks. I think there should be one Dalek episode just to remember them, but they shouldn't be the big bad. 

I think we have the right man for the job right now, Moffat will think of some new creepers for us.


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## Murkrow

Apparently Elisabeth Sladen has died :(


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## Dannichu

I cried when I found out five hours ago, and I am still crying now. I honestly didn't know I was capable of this kind of grief.

ETA: I thought I'd calmed down a bit, but then I found this.


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## Phantom

There will be a memorial for Elizabeth Sladen before and after the Season 6 premeire. 

I realized that Lis was two years older than my grandmother. It's so sad.


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## Murkrow

Did anyone see the episode?

Maybe the child in the spacesuit is Amy's daughter?
At first I thought that the feeling sick was a side effect of the aliens' defence mechanism, but River Song might be pregnant too, what with her "screamer" joke.

Also the aliens reminded me of Slenderman :(


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## Dannichu

I enjoyed it very much! I shall post more thoughts when I have more time.

Oh god, the tribute was lovely but so, so sad ;;


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## Phantom

ARGH! Why are people in other timezones????!!! It hasn't aired yet here. >:[


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## MentheLapin

It's back! I do like the idea that the girl in the spacesuit is Amy's daughter, that's kinda what I was thinking while watching it, but I never explored the possibility of River being pregnant. Can Time Lords even reproduce with humans. Is River even human?

Alternate theory:
The girl in the spacesuit grows up to be River, who then kills the Doctor and is sent to prison.


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## Murkrow

Flying Mint Bunny said:


> Can Time Lords even reproduce with humans.


If I recall correctly, in the American movie (which I'm pretty sure is canon), The Doctor does say that he is half-human


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## Phantom

The Doctor does say he's half human, and it was cannon with the classical series. But with the new series RTD threw things out of wack and it may not be anymore. Like the fact there can only be 12 regenerations, if that's so, there can only be 13 Doctors... of course there also, with that, is the question whether Ten's little save in "The Stolen Earth" where he uses his hand to stay himself actually counted, if so, the next Doctor after Eleven will be the last one. So a lot of cannon has been thrown out the window. Like the fact the classic Doctors, like One, said Time could not be rewritten, but it has become a common theme in the new series, especially with Eleven, that it can and the Doctor will use that for his advantage. It is also, so far, true that the Doctor gets younger with each regeneration, so one must wonder will Thirteen really be thirteen? lol. 

I ranted.


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## Kinova

I'm pretty sure Matt Smith's Doctor said that he had several hundred regenerations in one of the Sarah Jane Adventures he was in, so er. It would be a bit daft to limit the show to thirteen regenerations, even if it was canon in the past.

The episode buhfuhfuhda my brain. 



Spoiler



What was it doing on at 6pm, for a start. Those Dementor-Slenderman-skullheads were all kinds of scary. Moffat and his brilliant but creepy monster concepts, jeez. The memory thing was the most disturbing bit ('Close the door, Rory! CLOSE THE DOOR!') but those fingers, ugh.

River continues to grow on me. I don't know why, I wasn't keen when she started - but as more of her story comes out, it becomes far easier to sympathise with her. Her conversation with Rory at the locked door was really quite sad. Speaking of the locked door, the room behind it looked suspiciously like the someone's-attempt-to-make-a-TARDIS above Craig's flat in The Lodger - but why/what/who oh this episode gives you so much to think about.

Amy's daughter...? That would explain the accent, I suppose. Although, she _can't_ have managed to shoot her, or at least perhaps she isn't affected - maybe she's not a she, but a thing. Maybe the suit is used to puppet her? Was she the same suit that bumped off the Doctor? I don't know... either way, having the companion shoot a child point-blank is I think a little too dark for Doctor Who. At 6pm.

Also this is not really spoilerish at all, but I thought this was sweet - in Amy and Rory's house (I assume?) there were some shelves, and perched on the top one was a little Roman soldier figurine, and a women. Background details. <3



My mind's still swimming with outlandish theories so I think perhaps I should stop for now. Although, one last thing - half the stuff they put in the trailers was in the first episode, which is even more spoiler-concealing than usual. Hrrm.

The tribute to Elisabeth Sladen afterwards was, naturally, as brilliant as she was.


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## Phantom

Kinova said:


> I'm pretty sure Matt Smith's Doctor said that he had several hundred regenerations in one of the Sarah Jane Adventures he was in, so er. It would be a bit daft to limit the show to thirteen regenerations, even if it was canon in the past.


 
He did say that but most of the serious Whovian community took it as a joke in reference to the cannon. The Master had to ask the Time Lords for more regenerations, and it was a common theme with the Master, especially in his... er... ugly stage.


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## Kinova

Phantom said:


> He did say that but most of the serious Whovian community took it as a joke in reference to the cannon. The Master had to ask the Time Lords for more regenerations, and it was a common theme with the Master, especially in his... er... ugly stage.


Ugly? Goatees. Are. Cool!

Oh, right. Still seems like something to duck out of though, marketing-wise. And it would be terrible to see it go for the sake of one canon-rule.


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## Blastoise Fortooate

Why did The Doctor have to die? D: I hope that there's a magic-timey-wimey explanation for this and he comes back in two hundred years.

I was impressed that Eleven managed to stay alive and unregenerated for two centuries, though! And the scene with the hat!

I feel like killing Steven Moffet, but I'm impressed that he made me want to kill him over a tv show, so, props I guess. :/


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## Saith

Well I mean, there's a whole new series planned. It's not like they'd actually kill off the guy on all the adverts in the first two episodes.
Unless they do a Scream, in which case goddamn! That would be pretty awesome* and make this series even better than it would be.

*I love Matt Smith, by the way. I didn't mean it'd be awesome 'cause he'd die. :3


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## Phantom

They'll figure out a way. And I wasn't talking goatee stage. I was talking *this.


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## Kinova

?!?!?!_ What is it._

Question! D'you guys think that Amy is actually pregnant? I'm not sure. For starters, she was drinking at the beginning of the episode, then the sickness only started after she saw the first Dementor-head - and we know they can mess with your mind. The whole thing seems fishy.

Aaaaaand I can no longer see the word 'Spoilers' without it being in River Song's voice in my head.


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## Phantom

Kinova said:


> Aaaaaand I can no longer see the word 'Spoilers' without it being in River Song's voice in my head.


 
Ditto. :D

 She might be. I want to know why did the Doctor leave them? I mean they have a house, and seem to have been left for a long time. They never explain that. 

AND WHO IS RIVER?


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## Zeph

I got the idea that 



Spoiler



the little girl is Amy's daughter, but is also River. I don't know why that came to me, though!

Also, earlier on I thought OHMIGOD WHAT IF RIVER IS AMY IN THE FUTURE? but that didn't last long.

Also, as for the whole Doctor-dying thing, I theorised that perhaps that _will_ be his ultimate death, but the reason they saw him in his Matt Smith form will be explained away in some sort of "That was the form they were all the most used to" thing - Although granted that doesn't make a lot of sense.*

In the part 2 trailer, the Doctor's explanation of the Slendermen-Alien-Things reminded me somewhat of the Vashta Nerada? I'll keep that in mind anyway.

As for the underground place-thing having (almost) the exactly the same set as the TARDIS-mock-up-non-existent-flat from The Lodger, I'm sure there's a reason for that.

Also what did people thing of the strange tattoos/markings on Amy's face in the trailer? That reminded me of that guy from The Satan Pit, sort of.

*Incidentally, speaking of his semi-regeneration from The Stolen Earth - What about the whole shenanigan at the end of the Sound of Drums arc when he de-aged himself? Perhaps that whole renewal thing reset his regeneration cycle, so since then he gained another twelve regenerations, putting him on eleven now what with Tennant to Smith? Or maybe the hand regeneration DID count and so he's only got ten left now. Just a thought!

Finally, am I the only one who couldn't really take the shooting-the-little-girl scene seriously because of the whole sloooowwww mooootiooooon "NOOOOO WHAAAAAT AAARE YOU DOOOOIIINNNNNG" "SAAAAAVING YOUUUUR LIIIIIFE AAAAAAHHHHHH"



Also I am upset since I didn't get to see the Lis Sladen tribute :< I was away on the day the episode actually aired, so I had to watch on iPlayer, where they didn't include the tribute. Anybody know of anywhere I can find it?


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## Kinova

The tribute is up on YouTube at the moment, but I don't know how long it'll stay there.

I assumed that the Doctor had left the Ponds for some just-gotten-married couple time, or something. It was a bit odd that they didn't mention why, but it kind of makes sense.

As for River WHO KNOWS I have no idea. Obviously they're plastering 'wife' hints all over everything, only it seems like a massive red herring. The stuff that she said about the Doctor falling out of the sky and being all wonderful makes her sound very companion-y, rather than something crazy like his mother or sister or long lost Time Lord enemy person.

Ha, I kind of like that oh-you-saw-the-Doctor-you-knew idea, though I guess it's not really feasible. No doubt Moffat has thought up some equally bizarre way of fixing it. Or I hope so, anyway. I've read a couple of things where people are guessing that Matt is the final Doctor - that he'll do a few series and that'll be it, proper death, the end. I can only assume that the entire DW team wouldn't be keen on cancelling their own show though, so I doubt that's what's happening.

I did have a thought, though - the thing about the Doctor saying he was 1103. It seems a bit strange for them to fastforward 200 years when the whole of the current show has taken one series to equal one year, so maybe he was lying, to draw attention to the age difference and get the others to catch on to the 'I've sent you back to my past self' thing. He could actually be just a year older, which would take them up to the series finale to sort out the dead-Doctor problem.

Also why would you invite your friends to see you shot if you didn't want them to do something.

Hrm.


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## Zeph

[Says Kinova's posted but I CAN'T SEE HER POST WHY DO YOU EAT PEOPLE'S POSTS TCOD so this is a test to, erm, try to fix it.]

EDIT: Hooray.

Yeah, I guessed that 



Spoiler



he was giving them some time to have fun together (No innuendo intended, honest!).

I agree actually; I think that her mentioning getting married to 'someone' and dropping those hints about 'being a screamer' and stuff will turn out to be red herrings - Moffat's said that there will be 'huge unexpected twists' concerning River, and her being his future wife would be far, far too expected now to be described as unexpected.

Yeah, the thoguht of Matt being the final one crossed my mind, but then it occurred to me that they'll probably want to drag it on for as long as they possibly can, and although Matt's great, he's not going to stay on for more than a few years, so it's not really feasible he'll be 'it'.

Yeah, I found it very... Curiously _particular_ that he so very carefully pointed out his age. Also, when Amy said "Oh, you were 908 when I last saw you!", he just kind of smiled and changed the subject... So there's definitely something going on there.

Well, that's the thing! He obviously DID want them to do something - it's like how he said "Whatever you do, do NOT follow us inside the box - and make sure to close the door behind you." this Doctor's always telling people not to do stuff, but in a way that shows that he wants them to do it anyway. So the 'dead' future Doctor definitely has/had more up his sleeve than was let on.


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## Lady Grimdour

Okay, let me explain things first.

One: The 13 Regenerations rule is Time Lord law, not a biological law. And guess who's left of the Time Lords?

Two: The Slendermenalienthings are officially called the Silence. DUN DUN DUN.

Now that that's over, here's my theory.

The Silence have been on Earth before we created our civilization, much like the Pyroviles. Now we never really see the alien in The Lodger, now do we? We only know it wants to leave, and it has a perception filter. The Silence can enter Human bodies to further avoid detection due to the large amount of media "portraying" them, i.e. Little Green Men. (Side note: LGM = Elgyem)

But in the 60s, they were still a force, feared by the populace and not mentioned by the government. They haven't truly been identified due to their ability to be forgotten unless seen, and that's why LGM photos are always off/blurry/otherwise shite, because of this filter.

Now about the girl: IT'S NOT AMY'S CHILD NOR WILL IT BE RIVER OR HER CHILD. Ask yourself: WHY?! She's just a victim of the Astronaut, trapped as hostage. Either that or dead, and her image is being used as a projection to throw its captors away. Also, before anyone says it, there's no Grandfather Paradox with Amy shooting the Astronaut.

Mostly because the Astronaut is impervious to bullets. River unloaded a full revolver on it and nothing happened. What makes you think a badly-aimed shot by someone who's never handled a pistol, much less a snub-nosed revolver do anything? The only reason the Doctor, Amy and the audience reacted is because it showed the girl. We all then assumed that it's the girl and not the impervious spacesuit that was shot.

Also, a gaffe, probably two. River shooting the revolver: no recoil. It either should flick from her wrist or push her shoulder back. Same goes for Amy: an unprepared shot from a snub-nose can rip your hand off.


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## Bombsii

I used to be a massive Doctor Who nerd, I think I still have an entire shelf of classic who DVDs :'D But, during 2009, without a running series I think I gradually became less interested in the show. I still watch every episode faithfully, but it's become less important to me as of late. 

Favourite Doctors: 10 & 5 :D
Favourite Stories: The End of Time Part 2 was the best piece of TV I have ever watched & Midnight has always really interested me.


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## Phantom

Yeah I got that part. The Astronaut is impervious to bullets, and River has great aim, as seen many times. 

Ah, but about the Regneration, the Time-Lords needed to grant it. They blocked The Master's regenerations, and he had to ask for more, so it's possible the Doctor still has a limit. 

As for the marks from "Satan Pit" a couple theories about Amy having the marks. 

Demons. They BROUGHT BACK THE DEMONS! Classic Who. 

Also she seemed to be in control of herself in the trailer. Though the Silence seem to have the telepathic and "greater knowledge" as did the demons and the Beast. The possesed in "The Impossible Planet" and "The Satan Pit" weren't in control.


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## Dannichu

Zephyrous Castform said:


> Finally, am I the only one who couldn't really take the shooting-the-little-girl scene seriously because of the whole sloooowwww mooootiooooon "NOOOOO WHAAAAAT AAARE YOU DOOOOIIINNNNNG" "SAAAAAVING YOUUUUR LIIIIIFE AAAAAAHHHHHH"


Hahaha, you are totally not XD

Okay, so which are creepier - The Silence or The Gentlemen from Buffy? For me, The Gentlemen win it, although it's sort of funny The Gentlemen get rid of people's voices, which you'd sort of expect creatures called The Silence to do.

Not really related to the episode, but Who-related and sort of funny - my sister has the TARDIS noise as her incoming-text music on her phone, and recieved a text at the exact same time as the TARDIS was arriving in an episode we were watching, so she didn't notice. The Whovian geekiness overwhelms.

Also - what do you guys think will happen with The Sarah Jane Adventures?  (if any of you watch that?) Should they continue it under the same name without Lis and Sarah Jane? Create a sequel show where the non-SJ characters continue having alieny adventures? Or just call it a day, accept it won't continue without SJ/Lis Sladen and leave it as it was at the end of S4?


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## Zeph

Dannichu said:


> Not really related to the episode, but Who-related and sort of funny - my sister has the TARDIS noise as her incoming-text music on her phone, and recieved a text at the exact same time as the TARDIS was arriving in an episode we were watching, so she didn't notice. The Whovian geekiness overwhelms.


That is incredible XD



Dannichu said:


> Also - what do you guys think will happen with The Sarah Jane Adventures?  (if any of you watch that?) Should they continue it under the same name without Lis and Sarah Jane? Create a sequel show where the non-SJ characters continue having alieny adventures? Or just call it a day, accept it won't continue without SJ/Lis Sladen and leave it as it was at the end of S4?


Well, I never watched SJA myself, but I'd like to think that they'll continue it in some form in her memory! Although how they'd explain her sudden disappearance from the show, I don't know...

I'd also love it if they made a n in-canon reference to her death - perhaps in DW if the Doctor were to receive news of her death and pay some kind of tribute? The only problem there, of course, is that the Doctor is a time traveller - Her death isn't necessarily _important_ to him since he can see her whenever he likes by just travelling back to when she was alive! Eh, we'll see.


----------



## shy ♡

Dannichu said:


> Hahaha, you are totally not XD
> 
> Okay, so which are creepier - The Silence or The Gentlemen from Buffy? For me, The Gentlemen win it, although it's sort of funny The Gentlemen get rid of people's voices, which you'd sort of expect creatures called The Silence to do.


_Definitely _the Gentlemen. I didn't find the Silence scary at all. :v Honestly I was kinda surprised everyone else did find them scary! I was sort of expecting people to be like 'olol that was hilarious' and sort of disappointed? Idk. I guess I just have high standards.


----------



## Kinova

I don't know what they're going to do about SJA - it would be very weird to have it carry on without her, but I would miss it. My sister reckons they could do a spin-off spin-off, with Jo Grant, but I don't know. She was loopy and quite entertaining but it's just not... what it was. I think they have a few episodes of the next series recorded already, but I don't know if they'll show them on television.

As for the Silence, I think it was the concept more than anything that creeped me out. Memory is a funny thing, and to consider it being messed around with is unsettling.


----------



## Dannichu

I don't know if they'll even air the three episodes they made... I've not seen the final episode of the last series, but it was called Goodbye Sarah Jane and from what I've heard, would be a semi-decent place to end the series. It was such a good show, though, and I think it was more consistently good than Who itself, if a little on the cheesy side. Look what someone spotted!

I don't know what I want them to do about giving closure to the other characters, or about what happens to Sarah Jane in canon, though. ;;

There's a fandom joke that The Impossible Astronaut wasn't a very good episode because it didn't even have any aliens in X3

Also, sort of interesting, it was the most-watched show _ever_ on BBC America, yet was the least-watched series opener on the BBC since the show was rebooted back in '05. Though I think this is less to do with the Brits not wanting to watch Who and more to do with Saturday being a gloriously sunny day in the middle of a 4-day weekend.


----------



## Lady Grimdour

Zephyrous Castform said:


> Her death isn't necessarily _important_ to him since he can see her whenever he likes by just travelling back to when she was alive! Eh, we'll see.


Sarah Jane is in the Doctor's personal past. He can't travel back his past. So this will be the last time he can ever see Sarah Jane.

And I have a feeling they'll handle her death the same way the Doctor's death was; they get contacted by UNIT, then a funeral. The Doctor, Amy and Rory then comfort the kids, and Luke continues his mother's work in her honour. With his friends, of course. Show name gets changed, their life goes on defeating aliens and shizz. Have Rani's parents be Luke's caretakers as well.

It can work as a fitting tribute to Liz Sladen as well.


----------



## Zeph

Grimdour said:


> Sarah Jane is in the Doctor's personal past. He can't travel back his past. So this will be the last time he can ever see Sarah Jane.


I know, what I meant was that he could go back to a time where he hadn't visited her yet before. He managed it perfectly well in those episodes of SJA that he was in!

Although I do rather like your idea.


----------



## Phantom

Part 2 tomorrow... Who is excited? :3


----------



## Dannichu

AAAAHHHHHHH THE FINAL COUPLE OF MINUTES WHAT WAS THAT????

Also THE OPENING FEW MINUTES.

Also PIRATES NEXT WEEK :DDDDDDDD

Also (sorry for all the alsos) last week I said "He's not allowed to get married? Oh, Doctor Who, you and making all your incidental characters gay" so opal said "My first thought was actually interracial marriage" and LOL WE WERE BOTH RIGHT <33333

brb, more articulate later.


----------



## Lady Grimdour

Currently, I am scared shitless.

EDIT: Just finished watching the show on iPlayer and LOL CANTON'S GAY.

I was cool with an interracial marriage, but making him gay immediately put Harkness back into my mind. To be honest, I should've seen it coming.

And PIRATES. YARR.


----------



## Phantom

ARG! Damn you people for living six hours ahead of me! I am going to build a teleporter that will take me to the UK every Saturday so I can hang with the cool British peeps and watch Doctor Who _on time._


----------



## Dannichu

Aww, I'm sorry! Although now I'm sort of jealous because you get to watch it for the first time! I sometimes wish I could delete all memory of having watched my favourite shows/episodes so I could watch them for the first time again (or leave a note telling myself to not watch the final ten mintues of Journeys End). :)

Other things I remember I enjoyed:

-River splashing into the swimming pool in the library. I adore little bits of self-reference like that <3

-"You've got a screwdriver! Go build a cabinet!" The hilarious one-liners continue!

-The bit with Amy in the Orphanage was genuinely scary, even by Moffat standards.

And things I didn't like so much:

-The resolution of the Silence thing was a bit anticlimactic, I thought. Am I being silly, or did we never actually find out what they were doing? 

-It's feels a bit off to have the Doctor be so pacifistic and refuse to use guns, while being perfectly happy letting River shoot stuff left, right and centre (Sarah Jane certainly wouldn't stand for it).

-I blame this on Eleven being so asexual, but while I enjoy the hilarious flirting, the River/Doctor kiss seemed wrong. Even though the Doctor was super-awkward about it, the suggestion that it'll be happening a lot more is... weird to me. And we've already got one couple on board the TARDIS.


----------



## PK

Dannichu said:


> Aww, I'm sorry! Although now I'm sort of jealous because you get to watch it for the first time! I sometimes wish I could delete all memory of having watched my favourite shows/episodes so I could watch them for the first time again (or leave a note telling myself to not watch the final ten mintues of Journeys End). :)
> 
> Other things I remember I enjoyed:
> 
> -River splashing into the swimming pool in the library. I adore little bits of self-reference like that <3
> 
> -"You've got a screwdriver! Go build a cabinet!" The hilarious one-liners continue!
> 
> -The bit with Amy in the Orphanage was genuinely scary, even by Moffat standards.
> 
> And things I didn't like so much:
> 
> -The resolution of the Silence thing was a bit anticlimactic, I thought. Am I being silly, or did we never actually find out what they were doing?
> 
> -It's feels a bit off to have the Doctor be so pacifistic and refuse to use guns, while being perfectly happy letting River shoot stuff left, right and centre (Sarah Jane certainly wouldn't stand for it).
> 
> -I blame this on Eleven being so asexual, but while I enjoy the hilarious flirting, the River/Doctor kiss seemed wrong. Even though the Doctor was super-awkward about it, the suggestion that it'll be happening a lot more is... weird to me. And we've already got one couple on board the TARDIS.


I assume we're going to find out more about what the silence is/was actually doing as the season progresses. I don't think their arc ends here. Agree with you on most everything else though. That orphanage... Christ.


----------



## Phantom

Why?! Why can I not not read spoilers?! (that made sense in my head) I see them and I'm like "huh it's a spoiler, I shouldn't, I haven't seen the episode yet." then I'm like "Reeeeeeeaaaad... DAMMIT!" It's not even on here for another four hours and I don't get to see it until it reruns at like one in the morning. What I sacrifice. That's it, no more Who, I will watch some nice American tv... Ah Desperate Housewives... *eyeballs burn out* 

^Phantom's Rant#2 About Living in the US, abridged edition.

I will hold myself back from asking questions. I am so happy there's the rest of the season left. That's why Christmas makes me sad, it's one episode and then you have to wait forever for steady new episodes again. I don't like that they split it, I mean I know it's a good idea and all... but that last episode before fall... it's going to be evil isn't it? Moffat's going to leave us in a cliffhanger to end all known Whovian cliffhangers and we are going to want him dead, but we won't cause, well, he is the writer and all.


----------



## Dannichu

Yes, yes we absolutely will. That man is so absolutely evil with his cliffhangers (bloody Sherlock!) and has promised something 'game changing' at the end of this section of episodes, and given what he's done so far, I can't _begin_ to imagine what it'll be.

(American TV isn't _that_ bad. You've got Buffy and Joss' other stuff, and The West Wing and the early series of House!)

Phantom, stop reading spoilers. You'll ruin it for yourself!


----------



## Phantom

But if I stop reading spoilers I won't get secret messages! 

Buffy was denied at first, Firefly got cancelled after one season, and that's right season one and two of House, the current season I swear made my eyeballs bleed, never watched West Wing, I can't watch 24 because I am laughing too hard, yeah, American TV is lacking win. I only like watching reality shows so I can laugh at them and shoot people with nerf guns. Sadly I am not joking.


----------



## Dannichu

Ahaha, 24 is brilliantly lulzy, though. What it lacks in being _good_, it makes up for in being enjoyable. "Oh no! He's dead! And now she's dead! And he's betrayed us all! And Kim's about to be eaten by a mountain lion!"

But, in all seriousness, you shouldn't read below this spoiler (especially the link).



Spoiler



From what I can tell from Twitter, by and large people are loving the new series, including a lot of newcomers (almost all American), and there's also a huge portion of people going "WTF????". Which I sort of get; we are having inexplicable stuff thrown at us a lot (the Doctor dying, the _thing that happened_ at the end of the last episode) without it being fully explained, but I think people are being a bit too critical of all the loose ends - we're only two episodes in, and I think it's brilliant that Moffat's going for something that spans not only multiple episodes, but multiple series (I do confess I'm really enjoying the ongoing story of River, and I keep forgetting she was first introduced way back in Silence of the Library (and I wonder if the 'silence' bit there is yet another reference?)). People (like the person who wrote this review that I otherwise agree with) seem to want to have everything explained, but I'm really looking forward to things unfolding bit by bit, like they did with the serial format of Who (where between four and nine episodes told a mostly self-contained story) back in the day.

It's gonna be one hell of a finale, though, isn't it? :p


----------



## Phantom

Doesn't help when the link isn't covered by the spoiler tags, Dani.

*gets pushed over by a bushy haired woman who screams, "SPOILERS!*

Aaaaanyways, it's fine my lovely friend from across the Atlantic called me and he forgot that I hadn't seen it yet because he is in the future...(so much cooler putting it that way.) So it's ruined but still excited to actually see it. Anyways, 

 Time Lady? And it's a child. First thoughts was Romana, but no they wouldn't bring her back. But another thought. It is cannon that Time Lords grow younger as they regenerate, this could be a very very old Time Lady, or some sort of half-Gallifreyan. Thing is a lot of people say it's the Doctor's and Amy's, that I think is a giant red herring and isn't true. But what about Jenny? Remember the Doctor's "daughter"? Who regenerated after her debut episode "The Doctor's Daughter"? What if that's her and she made it out? But she regenerated younger. Just a brain thought.


----------



## Dannichu

Spoiler



My first thought was Romana, too, but while that'd be pretty awesome for old-school fans, there are so many new viewers, I don't think the writers would go that way, because it wouldn't be very satisfying for all the NuWho fans.

I personally reckon the kid'll turn out to be River, but if that's the case, then the Doctor (unless the writers really want to take the show in an unexpected direction) isn't her father, which means another Time Lord has to be in there somewhere. Jenny would raise the same incesty-problems as the Doctor (although poor old Jenny's involved in a ton of hilarious meta-incest as it is), and the only other Time Lord is the Master, which would be quite the twist (I have a crack theory that Rory's the Master and if it turns out I'm right, you all have to worship me).

I hadn't really thought much about Time Lords getting younger as they regenerate, suggesting that she's actually a very _old_ Time Lord, what with all the talk of babies the show was throwing around, but it's a really interesting point. I don't know if they _have_ to age backwards, though - have the actors who've played the Doctor all gotten younger (from the time they started playing the role, obviously) with each incarnation? I remember Peter Davison being pretty young. And the Doctor and Master were little kids on Gallifrey together, before they'd had any regenerations at all. 
So many possibilities! :D



Edit: More things!

1. I actually love the term 'Schrodinger's pregnancy' XD

2. Someone posted on Fandom!Secrets that they think River is a future regeneration of the Doctor who is trolling his/her younger self and, even knowing how it ends, I sort of want it to be true.

3. Totally spoiler-free and hilarious :D


----------



## Phantom

3. EPIC I can die happy now that I've seen that. 


2. Hmm I doubt it.. He kissed himself.. I know the Doctor is strange... and been alone for a long time... I now need to make a demotivational poster of emo Doctor with "forever alone". Besides he is supposed to be able to sense another Time Lord... but that would explain how River knows his name. Thing is last I checked they don't change gender when they regenerate... I will have to research that.
1. I keep thinking of Stargate SG-1 when I hear any reference to that.

And Rory? Master? *dalek voice* EXPLAIN!

Yeah Doctor/Jenny not allowed in Doctor Who universe, but the actors are fine. So happy for David, Georgia, and Olive. Wouldn't 

I miss Romana/Fred. (old quote I have it somewhere on my facebook I swear.)


----------



## PK

Nah, no way time lords grow younger as they regenerate. Look at 10, he was older than 9. And you see the doctor as a little kid of gallifrey in flashbacks- he wasn't born old. This ain't benjamin button.


----------



## Lady Grimdour

The kid is a result of a future metacrisis: Amy's child and the Doctor. Possibly during one of the Doctor's future deaths where they all know what can happen if he gets injured during the process. The energies bond with Amy's unborn child, mix somewhere and create this little girl. Or Amy was right that being in the TARDIS affected her. Remember that the TARDIS regenerates as well. Possibly residue from this mingled with the unborn baby. Once the baby's born, ta-daa. Time Lady. As to why and how she ended up in New York is a mystery yet to be solved. Perhaps a time portal? We'll see.


----------



## Blastoise Fortooate

MUST. RESIST. SPOILERS.

Missed the episode and have to catch it on reruns. D:


----------



## Phantom

Doctor Whoof said:


> Nah, no way time lords grow younger as they regenerate. Look at 10, he was older than 9. And you see the doctor as a little kid of gallifrey in flashbacks- he wasn't born old. This ain't benjamin button.


 

The original concept of regeneration or renewal was that the Doctor's body would rebuild itself in a younger, healthier form. The Second Doctor was intended to be a literally younger version of the First; biological time would turn back, and several hundred years would get taken off the Doctor's age, rejuvenating him. In practice, however, after the Doctor stated his age in the Second Doctor serial "The Tomb of the Cybermen (1967), the Doctor's age has been recorded progressively, however many regenerations the Doctor goes through. Excepting the transitions from the Second to Third Doctor and the Fifth to the Sixth Doctor, the general trend has been toward increasingly younger actors for the role. In the revived series the pattern is resumed with the transition of the Ninth to the Tenth and the Tenth to the Eleventh Doctor. BTW Chris Eccleston is almost seven years older than David Tennant (DT 1971, CE 1964) and Matt smith is the youngest ever, he's 28.. holy crap he's only eight years older than me.


----------



## Dannichu

This is super-cool (SPOILERS for both episodes of the new series, though!) and I can't wait to see how it ends/begins :3


----------



## shy ♡

Ahhhh okay that totally made up for the first half, and was actually _scary_ :D Yes. Amy in the orphanage, just fucking amazing, okay. I want more of this!

Danni I agree with you on... literally every point you made. I'm expecting this plot point to be drawn out throughout the season, because they left nearly everything unanswered, but that's a _good_ thing, because this is awesome plot. And - and can I say, I was also a bit disappointed about [spoilers]the kiss[/spoilers], mostly because I was hoping that would go... a different way? Just any other way, really. :[ Yeah. Oh, well...


----------



## Dannichu

Not much of a surprise, but...

The BBC confirmed today that following the death of Elisabeth Sladen there are no plans to film further episodes of The Sarah Jane Adventures.

(I am still so, so sad. About Lis, about the show, about everything ;;)

But Saturday's episode looks to be fantastic, so it's not all bad.


----------



## Phantom

The more I think about it the more I think the Time Lady is Amy's child. The TARDIS couldn't scan her maybe because the Doctor had it set for human...

And Canton lol.


----------



## Dannichu

Well, that was good. 


Spoiler: Today’s episode



PIRATES YAY. They make everything better! 

Although one thing that felt really weird to me was that the tried to do the Moffat thing of taking something really ordinary and making it super-scary (in this case, cutting/harming yourself and reflective surfaces), but didn’t really make either work. There were a few good ‘woaaaah don’t cut yourself!’ moments, but no actual tension, which was a bit of a shame.

I enjoyed Amy’s swashbuckling at the beginning very much. And the Captain choosing between his son and his greed – I didn’t see the son getting taken coming. 

And WHO was that who popped up in Amy’s sorta-dream?! I might have to rewatch the entire thing just for that one bit. And her wibbly-wobbly pregnancy continues.

The pirates at the end, flying their spaceship was great. Never mind that the Doctor just let a bunch of murderers (with some kind of tropical flu?) loose on the universe. 

The music and general atmosphere was pretty fantastic, though. The ending felt a little reminiscent of The Doctor Dances, only nowhere NEAR as good.

Overall, I think the episode felt a little light, but between the mind-blowingly amazing two-parter we opened with, plus the Neil Gaimanny goodness we’re promised next week, I’m okay with that.

Although, I have to say, nearly-deaths annoy me. Rory obviously wasn’t going to die (also, Amy fails so hard a CPR) and it just makes it all silly if they actually *do* kill someone off. And this is the THIRD time we’ve had Rory nearly-die. Although – and this is hilarious - CPR was a UK trending topic on Twitter right after the episode aired because everyone and their mother was complaining about how wrong Amy was doing it XD

In fact, all the UK’s TTs: 

•  #illpunchyouintheface 
•  Charlie Adam 
•  #liamshakeyourtictacs 
•  Lily Cole 
•  CPR 
•  #thatoneperson 
•  Ood 
•  Hugh Bonneville 
•  Space Pirates

(where Lily Cole and Hugh Bonneville were actors in tonight’s Who, everyone hates Amy’s CPR (THE IRONY in Rory telling Amy she’d know how to do it because she’s “seen it on TV all the time”), Space Pirates at the end... and Ood next week! Eee! But yes. 5 out of 9 topics isn’t bad XD

ALSO, the absolute funniest moment:
Captain: Son! *hugs*
Amy: Rory! *hugs*
Doctor: TARDIS! *hugs*

Again, I'm really sorry my thoughts are so disjointed. I might come back and tidy them up later :p


----------



## Lady Grimdour

space pirates.

What scared me wasn't the reflection and the blood, it was that siren. OH GOD THAT FACE. Seriously, the way it contorts is just nightmare fuel. And I like the idea of a VI doctor. Intelligent, but can't learn. Anyway, I just found it interesting. A virtual doctor that comes out of reflections to heal you if you bleed.

It was a nice, DW running about episode, nothing big, nothing too flashy, just the Doctor and friends fixing random things, not worrying any massive plot arcs until the very end. A break from the epic USA Silence two-parter.

What intrigued me more was the next episode. Another Time Lord? Someone actually berating the Doctor for being impetuous and childish? Lime-flavoured Ood? Can't wait.

space pirates.


----------



## shy ♡

Did anyone else get the end-of-the-episode Firefly feeling? Hee.

Anyhow, it was better than I expected. I always get kinda disappointed by non-Moffat episodes, but this was really kinda cool, especially Amy's dream (the woman she saw, btw, was the woman from last episode's when she looked at the door in the orphanage). I'm not a huge fan of pirates just for pirates' sake, but I think it was done pretty well, honestly! Especially liked all of the Doctor's 'forget all my previous theories lol' shenanigans. :D


----------



## Phantom

I hate this. I've gotten so used to watching shows at my own time, since most of my favorite shows have seasons out on DVD. Now I am watching a show as it happens... THIS IS TORTURE! I mean when I first saw Buffy it was a freaking marathon, I just watched season after season, same with Bones and with House, I even did it with new Who sadly enough because, believe it or not, when I heard they were restarting Doctor Who I was sort of pissed. I thought it would end up being messed up and get the whole show's history ruined. So, I never watched it until I saw Ten in "Human Nature" and I was hooked and watched everything previous online.

Er herm as Eleven said, "Is this how time normally passes? Really slowly, in the right order?


----------



## Kinova

Yeeaaah space pirates! Liked this episode for its swashbuckling nature (Amy, you should have kept that hat!), the constant theory alteration and the Siren - her blank expression and overall strangeness was a good addition to the piratey-ness of it all.

The woman with her appearing-disappearing door, ahh! My curiousity over why she's wearing an eyepatch overthrows all other wonderings about her, but it will still be interesting to find out... you know, anything else about her.

I have a question, though - the guy that the boy cut in the brig, what happened to him? I might have missed it, but as far as I could see he got black-spotted, his treasure-stealing mate got dustified, and then he wasn't in it anymore...? Thought they'd just left him on the (sea dwelling) ship, but then in Confidential he was with the others in the sick bay.

Also, ood. OOD. <3 Wondering about them: back in The End of Time, Tennant's Doctor was all '?!?! how are you so advanced Oodfolk SOMEONE HAS FASTFORWARDED YOUR DEVLOPMENT' - and then he got all distracted by the return of the Master and that and they never said what had been messing with the Ood. Don't know if they'll go back to that, though I hoped that they'd explain it at some point...


----------



## Phantom

Heehee, I'm waiting for Torchwood... US Torchwood at that. Should be more epic now that they've combined with US productions.


----------



## Wargle

I only got to see half the episode tonite... damn Sirens OM NOM NOM on people


----------



## Phantom

I think River is on death row... I mean you can change the future... what if it's changed so that Silence in the Library never happened? Or happened differently... I think why she was so sad and thought she was never going to see him again was because she was going to be executed.... thoughts?

And the woman Amy saw? I RECOGNIZED! She was the doctor from the Eleventh hour.... the one who was used by Prisoner Zero as a disguise... and the LITTLE GIRLS!... That was Prisoner Zero... gone borg?

Have I lost my mind... but that was her!


And space pirates and salt water leeches?


----------



## Dannichu

So this is the best thing I've read all day XD


----------



## Blastoise Fortooate

It's possible that the leeches had gotten into a barrel or something before the ship left? Saltwater leeches might exist, but I can't tell since Google's results on the subject are stupid.

And same actor doesn't equal same person– I think that Martha Jones was killed by the Cybermen in the episode(s) where they fight the Daleks.

Also Dannichu always has the best news.

NEW QUESTION: Favorite monsters/villains?


----------



## Dannichu

Ooh, was it really the same actress? Because the Prisoner Zero Possessed Woman With Small Girls was defintely played by Olivia Colman, who I absolutely _adore_ because she's absolutely hilarious and in everything (Shaun of the Dead, Green Wing, Skins, Rev and loads of others) and it would be fantastic if she came back/played another character.

Amy's actress played a Pyrovile in Fires of Pompeii, too. And Eve Myles, obviously, played two Whoniverse characters. They explained that one _seamlessly_ XD


----------



## Phantom

I soo want in on this. lol. Sadly I am too young... I can sooo pass for 11 right? Right?

So "The Doctor's Wife" ideas? They are pretty much telling us that the Doctor isn't the only Time Lord left.


----------



## Dannichu

Right, I promise I will be more articulate later, but for the moment, my reaction is AAAAAHHHHHHHH SO, SO GOOD <333333


----------



## Phantom

Dannichu said:


> Right, I promise I will be more articulate later, but for the moment, my reaction is AAAAAHHHHHHHH SO, SO GOOD <333333


 
>:/ 

For some reason this is more mean than spoilers! lol.

And for Blastoise, I am a fan of the Weeping Angels, the Master, and the Daleks. Daleks just for the sake of well... they're the f'n Daleks! I like the Silence, but I think they are just plain weird looking.


----------



## RosesBones

Hello, new person here. ^_^ I love Doctor Who! I'm glad there's a topic for it. I've seen every episode of the new series, but not much of the old. My favorite doctor is Ten, but I love almost equally Nine and Eleven. My favorite villains are the Weeping Angels and the Daleks, though I wish they'd left the Angels alone after Blink and the Daleks are overused. Sorry, this is all just kind of random. -_-
My theory on the Silence in the Library issue is that it cannot be changed, since that is the first time that the Doctor met River Song (on his timeline, anyway). Also,  why would the Doctor say that he doesn't trust River? Is it because she did not know to use his name like she did in Silence in the Library/Forest of the Dead?


----------



## Phantom

I am still saying that since the timeline changed, or since time can be altered, Silence in the Library/Forest of the Dead, might not have happened. It could be the Doctor or something else happened and she died before.... well she died in a different way. 


I am going to rent a boat and go to England, yes, once a week I will sail across the Atlantic... Yepyep. So I can watch Doctor Who_ on time_.


----------



## Dannichu

I was actually, literally inarticulate following today's episode.



Spoiler



It started off a little grim and dark, but then SEXY and I'M A MAN WITH A BOX WITHOUT A BOX and BUNK BEDS and the whole thing was completely hilarious and still managed to be bloody scary (the bit with Amy and OH LOOK RORY'S (sort of) DEAD AGAIN was scary, and, I imagine, terrifying for little kids) and very, very sad at the end. I sort of wish [no really, mega-spoiler] the TARDIS could've stayed like that because she was awesome. DOCTOR/TARDIS OTP 4EVER. <33



Hi Rose! :D I agtee on the Daleks being a bit overused, and while I was a bit annoyed they sort of changed all the Weeping Angels stuff in the S5 two-parter, I still thought it was really scary. o.o


----------



## Phantom

I don't know I there's still a lot left to learn about them (Weeping Angels)... I mean knowing more about them makes them less scary it seems... but the more we know about them the more we can throw them at players in the Doctor Who roleplaying game! 

Rose99280 should definately join Torchwood mafia! (please? more players the better. Plus I can add more characters if there are more people!)


----------



## Eclipse

Ahaha... I feel bad intruding but... Hello. :D After constant pestering of a certain IRL friend, I finally started Doctor Who starting from the new version season 1, but I did watch random episodes from season 2-4, and the first three of season 5.

All I can say is that I'm definitely hooked and I really hope that I can catch up to the recent episodes. OTL


----------



## Blastoise Fortooate

Coolest. Episode. Ever.

The TARDIS was a woman! I get the title now! YAY! Although the patchwork people dying was pretty sad. Did anyone else think the male one was a bit Hugh Laurieish? And it seems a bit odd that Doctor and co. didn't immediately unravel that 'river in the forest' line that Sexy said. 

This episode is really quotable.

Also, welcome, Eclipse!


----------



## Lord of the Fireflies

Just popping in out of nowhere to claim that David Tennant is the best Doctor.

*runs away*


----------



## Zero Moment

So I just watched the two new episodes of Doctor Who.




/join

Bunk Beds :D


----------



## Time Psyduck

Hi, I'm a Doctor Who fan. You may have figured that out already. Unless you've never seen me before. Or you never saw any of the DW-based quotes in my sig or my previous avatar. [Joining]. Anyway:

RE: The angels. I never found them that scary. Perhaps startling when I first saw Blink, but I tend not to find any monsters scary (although the gas mask virus was creepy). Anyway, I get the feeling that "Anything that holds the image of an angel becomes an angel" was designed to scare people who bought the idea that they can be observed through the fourth wall.

RE: The Doctor's Wife: That was awesome. Bits I like:
1) The first thing the TARDIS does on meeting the Doctor in human form: Kiss him.
2) "She Bites." "I do?" *Chomp*
3) The TARDIS stole the Doctor
4) "Sexy"
5) "I always got where you needed to go."
6) The TARDIS' idea of 'the pretty one'
7) The TARDIS' final words
8) The Doctor on how awesome Bunk Beds are.

House was an interesting villain, and probably one of the most dangerous. After all, who else could take over control of the TARDIS. 

Not so keen on all the Time Lords being dead, although since they're time travellers they could in theory show up alive at some point (and there's material for audio dramas/novels/fanfiction. Also shame the TARDIS can't talk any more, but I suspect she'll be shown to be animate/communicating in other ways, and the Doctor's relationship with her will be played up a bit.

Still, it basically makes Doctor/TARDIS canon. Also, no comment on the brakes being left on, only on the noise it makes (which the TARDIS doesn't seem to be upset about) so apparently she doesn't mind the brakes staying on.


----------



## shy ♡

Who else wants Neil Gaiman to become a permanent writer for DW? I mean. Just. Holy crap.

Also, the fashion that uncle/niece/Sexy/etc. wore? So gorgeous. And added so much to the style and the story.


----------



## Dannichu

Someone on Twitter mentioned that they reckon Neil Gaiman will become to Moffat what Moffat was to RTD. opal thinks that Neil probably has too much on his plate to do that, but I live in hope :D

HI NEW PEOPLE :DDDD

Also, they totally nicked the "Biting is like kissing, only there's a winner" line from Moffat's (absolutely fantastic) series Jekyll, where someone says "Have you ever killed anyone? It's like sex, only there's a winner". But I stand by that you can't plagarise youself, so it's allowed. 

And I loved the dark, steampunky, general sewn-together-ness of the Family, too. Although the Ood being there wasn't really explained? I need to watch the episode again, there was so much in there, and I was squealing incoherently quite a bit. 

Although - absolute, total canon confirmation that Time Lords can change sex when they regenerate! HUZZAH! :DDD

And yes, Rory being the TARDIS' idea of the 'pretty' one was absolutely hilarious XD


----------



## Kinova

Ahhhh heck. Don't know where to start! 



Spoiler



Okay, so first - the 'the only water in the forest is the river' thing? Delightfully ambiguous. The most obvious link to make would be River and her first Forest of the Dead appearence, but I continue to be overly suspicious of red herrings.

Oh oh oh also the thing the TARDIS said about archiving things that haven't happened yet _cough like pregnancy cough._ Ooh exciting. Although, no sign that I saw of eyepatch-woman this week.

I am starting S.P.O.W. >| Society for the Protection of Oodish Welfare. They're like the Universe's scapegoat and this is not acceptable. They are forever getting possessed/lobotomised/abandoned to fall into black holes. Not acceptable!

And old TARDIS console yesyesyes. <3 And I love that presumably, when the gravity is not switched on, you can walk along a TARDIS corridor and just walk right... up. Or down. Or do you just jump into a vertical corridor and float up? Whatever, that was cool. (And so are bunkbeds.) I half expected that typewriter on the console to become some way of communing with the TARDIS afterwards, sigh. Also comparing the remains of the other TARDISes(?) to corpses and then happily stitching them together was, I thought, rather bizarre after the Doctor got so angry about Auntie and Uncle being sewn-together bits of Time Lord.



Next time trailer - I think I saw Life on Mars/Ashes to Ashes' Chris! :D


----------



## shy ♡

Oh god I remember the good old days of waiting for every Moffat episode... Now we just need Gaiman to agree to write at least one episode per season. I mean he seemed like such an uber-geek in the confidential, he _must_ accept, and apparently he wrote several concepts and Moffat chose this one, so! He must have many ideas, just use some of the other concepts! 



Spoiler



The pretty line was, I think, to try and make up for killing Rory again. Poor guy. And he died _in the TARDIS_. Geez. Oh, and there didn't seem to be any reason for the Ood other than that random things get stranded on House, so Ood was there. 

Also, Kinova, you start your Ood protection, I'm starting a society for protection of Rory. :| Poor guy.


----------



## Dannichu

This is brilliant :)

Edit: This review is fantastic, too.

And next week's episode looks very creepy indeed, I hope they pull it off. I think I saw Chris Skelton there, too - it'll be hard to imagine him being anything other than dopily adorable (assuming his character is someone who isn't) - so much to look forward to! :D


----------



## Eclipse

... /sob I would really like to read all the reviews and join the jubilation but for once I've been trying to not get spoiled, so this is hard resisting all the spoilers. OTL

What other episodes had Gaiman worked on besides The Doctor's Wife? He seems to be in the hearts of all the fans.


----------



## 8-bit Paladin

Too. Many. Spoilers.
Must. Not. Read.

I really need to catch up on my who.  Netflix one of these days your gonna get a work out.

Any way add me to the club if you would please.  Never hurts to show one's Doctor Who fandom.


----------



## Phantom

I for sure need to gather up all my friends and watch the new episodes. I only showed them the first of season six.... I think I am going to steal them and have a new series marathon....


----------



## opaltiger

Eclipse said:


> What other episodes had Gaiman worked on besides The Doctor's Wife? He seems to be in the hearts of all the fans.


None. But he is _Neil Gaiman._


----------



## Eclipse

opaltiger said:


> None. But he is _Neil Gaiman._


... True. I was just surprised he actually wrote something for Doctor Who. O:


----------



## Dannichu

Hey, doing stuff for Doctor Who is the best thing _ever_. Steven Moffat turned down the chance to work on with Steven Spielberg because it is "the proper duty of every British subject to come to the aid of the Tardis".


----------



## opaltiger

Completely off-topic, but:



> Thomas Sangster, 18, will take the lead role. He is known for playing Liam Neeson's son in British comedy Love Actually.


YES IT'S ADORABLE KID :DDDD I LOVE ADORABLE KID


----------



## Dannichu

I LOVE ADORABLE KID TOO <333 I rewatched the Family of Blood two-parter (Not completely off-topic! :D) the other day, and it amuses me how they can have the world's most adorable boy and the world's creepiest boy in the same episode.

Although his Wiki page brings sad news: "In March 2008 it was announced that Sangster will star in Steven Spielberg's CGI motion capture film Tintin as the title character of Hergé's comic books. Sangster left the project after scheduling difficulties when filming was delayed in October 2008 and the role was given to Jamie Bell" Aww ):


----------



## opaltiger

> Although his Wiki page brings sad news


oh god for a second I thought he had cancer or something ;;


----------



## Dannichu

Oh god no, sorry, that would be _terrible_ D:

Also, because I need to ramble, and here is probably the place to do it, I would just like to say how much I absolutely freaking LOVE The Sarah Jane Adventures. I've spent most of today watching it (hurr, I totally don't have an exam on Wednesday) and while it's a bit cheesy here and there, it's also so, so well-written and happy and funny I wonder why it doesn't get more love. 

In an episode I watched today, where they end up going back in time, Sarah Jane introduces herself and Luke to her parents (who died when she was a child) as Victoria and David Beckham; SJ sees a police box, assumes it's the TARDIS and runs over, only to discover it's an *actual* police box (it being the 50's); and Rani steps through the time gap to look for SJ, and, realizing she's drawing stares from everyone around her, announces "Yes, hello, an ethnic person in the 50's!". It's a combination of both the writing and the acting, but all of these scenes are absolutely _hilarious_.

Although the funniest scene _ever_ was in S1, when Maria gets kidnapped by a cult of evil nuns because it had the line "I’d shut up if I were you. Or the Abbess will show you her idea of solving a problem like Maria". I _died laughing_.

I'm also always impressed with how it deals with things like death, illness and family breakups in ways you very rarely see kid's shows do - things don't always turn out all right, and even in a world where kids save the world from alien invasions, there's no magical way to deal with the pain of your parents' divorce. It also shows non-traditional families as acceptable, normal and, in the case of SJ and Luke, pretty awesome.

It's also worth noting that, in the fourth series (after Luke goes off to uni), the main cast is a black kid, an Asian girl, and a woman in her 60's. Which is fairly brilliant.

Ramble over :)


----------



## Eclipse

Dannichu said:


> Although the funniest scene _ever_ was in S1, when Maria gets kidnapped by a cult of evil nuns because it had the line "I’d shut up if I were you. Or the Abbess will show you her idea of solving a problem like Maria". I _died laughing_.


... Oh my god fdjaskfjasjas that is _brilliant_.

Speaking of funny things, I discovered something awesome and hilarious. When Billie Piper acted as a high class prostitute in the Secret Diary of a Callgirl, one of her clients was acted by _Matt Smith_. 

It must be seen to be believed.

And her interview about it is equally hilarious.

... eh, sorry if you guys know about this already, being a total noob in the fandom is pretty hard. OTL


----------



## Dannichu

Ahahaha, that is fantastic XD I keep meaning to watch SDoaCG - my housemate who I'm rewatching all of NuWho with at the moment has seen it, and keeps telling me how funny it is to see Billie Piper wearing chavvy clothes and things. I think she and Matt Smith are both in the BBC adaptations of Ruby in the Smoke and the other Phillip Pullman books. 

I love the Doctor Who actors SO MUCH <3

So, tonight's episode! It was pretty good, I thought (MUSE AT THE BEGINNING :D), but I hope next week's builds on it, because the ending was a bit flat.


----------



## Phantom

Haha I think they have the most insane cast ever.

And the Gangers, especially er that last one ( I have lack of spoiler covering abilities since I am using my cell phone at the moment) were very interesting. I found that if they freaking attack Rory one more time I will find Arthur and tie him to a chair so they stop trying to kill him. Seriously, leave the poor bloke alone! But I loved his line after Jennifer said Amy was a lucky girl just the pause and "yeah". Funny as hell. And when the Doctor (spoiler I guess) finds the TARDIS sinking his first response is, "what are you doing down there??" And his shoes lol.  He talked to the TARDIS like it was still a person... well it is but it isnt ... eh it's a paradox but that's ok.


----------



## Arylett Charnoa

Hello! I'm extremely new to Doctor Who, and as such, cannot read any of your spoilers or have any idea what most of you are talking about. >: Started with the first revival series, had a once over with it, then sort of stopped watching afterwards because the Tenth Doctor alienated me because I preferred the Nineth. But I'm rewatching all the episodes I've seen again and then going to catch up. I hope.

What I'm trying to say is that it's pretty brilliant and I like it and yes, I want to join your club even though I know so little.


----------



## Dannichu

Yay! HI ARYLETT. 

I think everyone has that thing when their first Doctor regenerates - I remember after the Ninth regenerated everyone was saying how they didn't even want to watch Doctor Who anymore, and then everyone fell IN LOVE with David Tennant. Keep going with it, the Tenth Doctor has some absolutely amazing episodes :D

My favourite post-most-recent-episode-Tweet: "IRONY: In tonight's episode of #DoctorWho Rory makes it thru whole episode w-out dying. However,we the audience are killed by the rapture."


----------



## Eclipse

I finally reached the last episode of season 4.

_Dear lord someone hold me. ;_;_

Ten, I will miss you so...


----------



## Phantom

I hate BBC America... I DON'T CARE IF IT'S A HOLIDAY GIVE ME MY WHO!!!


----------



## Lady Grimdour

Eclipse said:


> I finally reached the last episode of season 4.
> 
> _Dear lord someone hold me. ;_;_
> 
> Ten, I will miss you so...


Look to the future, young padawan.


----------



## Phantom

I heard there was a sort of  Tom Baker and David Tennant cameo in the newest episode, is there?


----------



## PK

The only proper way I can sum up my reaction to this episode is my mind is a bottle of nitroglycerine and this show is a sledgehammer. On fire.


----------



## Dannichu

Eclipse said:


> I finally reached the last episode of season 4.
> 
> _Dear lord someone hold me. ;_;_
> 
> Ten, I will miss you so...


[spoiler tags everywhere because I really don't want to ruin anything for anyone]

Oh god, I _know_ ;; I watched the S4 finale today (hurr, I've watched nearly every ep of newWho in the last five days) and 



Spoiler



it's so saaaaad. I do love Ten (and RTD)'s goodbye tour, though - the Alonso nod with Jack is wonderful, and I _adore_ that he saves Luke from being hit by a car when crossing the road - the kids on SJA walk across the road like that _all the time_ without looking either way and it's no way to teach kids road safety! - and getting Verity Newman's (her _name_! :D) book signed was super-sweet. I can't not yell at the screen over the frankly idiotic desicion to pair up Martha and Mickey, though, what was THAT? Martha was _already engaged_ to Tom, who seemed really cool, and Mickey should've continued hanging out /having epic subtext with Jake.



But if we're talking actual S4-finale (the Stolen Earth two-parter), 



Spoiler



then yes, I was _so_ sad at the end of that. I completely adore Donna, and what happens to her is so heartbreakingly sad, and the fact that the bits preceeding her near-mind-melt were so _happy_ (I get a bit teary-eyed every time I see the Tardis being flown the way it was meant to be flown) that the mood whiplash makes it all even worse ;;



Also, on a rewatch of the Silence of the Library, it gets sadder and sadder the more you know about River's relationship with the Doctor. First time I watched it, I wasn't too bothered. Now it's really quite depressing. I forsee a day when it actually makes me cry. "One last run" indeed ):

But Saturday's episode! 



Spoiler



I was wrong, there _was_ a sort of Baker and Tennant cameo. Sort of. It's very clever and I managed to miss it amid my squealing first time. Actually, with THAT ENDING, I managed to forget about the whole rest of the episode because the reveal at the end was SO IMMENSE, but it was actually really, really good. I loved that a combination of humans and gangers were left alive at the end, and the Doctor swapping with himself (I actually guessed that, but I was watching it by myself, so there was nobody to tell me how clever I was ):), but, again, THAT ENDING. AAAHHHHHH. Seriously, that's all I can come up with, and it's like the third time I've edited this post XD


----------



## Eclipse

I finally caught up with the latest episodes and fdjsakfdskfjakf THAT WHAM JUST TOPPED ALL THE WHAMS IN HISTORY.

But I have to totally agree with Dannichu Donna was my favorite, and seeing her go like that was depressing. ;_; Also the last minute hook up between Mickey and Martha was really really dumb. I mean, I can totally get pairing the spares, but really? And Riverrrrr, she has tragic character written all over her. We'll soon find out if she is...

And ohyes, the Baker and Tennant cameo. I found it epic that Ganger!Doctor was all over his history like that. And then he died. I'll miss seeing two Doctors. :C

I really can't wait for this week's new episode. It looks absolutely epic.


----------



## Kinova

I wasn't mad keen on The Rebel Flesh as a standalone episode (it seemed a bit all over the place - especially with Jennifer,  she was swinging wildly from 'I'm afraid, hold me Rory!' to *punch in the face* to ;0; to 'WAAAAR' like woah) but The Almost People made me like it loads more as a set. I loved the whole discussion over the Flesh's claim to humanity. The face-stretching was a bit naff but the Jennifer-monster was disturbing as, and I enjoyed that they did a lot with the characters of blood-clot lady and acid-dad (names escape me) in a relatively short space of time. Also huzzah for Rory a) not dying for an episode and b) being a sweetheart and a Ganger freedom fighter.

(Mega-spoilers below for the end of episode six. Don't even think about it.)



Spoiler



The end was kind of... mad. Just whuuhhh. What the crap eyepatch lady, that has got to be the most stressful way of getting someone to deliver a baby. You are an awful midwife. 'Pussssssssssssssssssh.' D: ffff

How long d'you reckon Amy's been... you know? I kind of hope it was from back when the Silence abducted her for a bit; I don't think we ever _really_ found out what they were even doing. Although I have no idea what they'd have to do with eyepatch-woman.



(Okay, safer from now onwards. Just inane speculation.)



Spoiler



So. RIVER SONG. Seriously beginning to bug me. :v All the hints they've given seem to indicate that her character is work-out-able with what they've given, but I can't _think_. I think we can rule out a family member of the Doctor's since she was well up fo snogging him. If we're going by Russell T Davies' Doctor-Time-Lord-sensing-ability mentioned after the Master turned up the first time, we can also assume she's not a Time Lord...? Which would also mean she couldn't be the little girl... /brainmelt

If she does turn out to be his wife that's got to be the biggest double-bluff in history.



All in all I expect I'm overthinking it, but it has been three years in the making and it is (should be - don't you have been lying to us, Mr Moffat) going to come out in matter of days. Overexcitement is unavoidable. Oh, and I am both looking forward to and preparing to despise the cliffhanger finale. I'm still nursing feelings of resentment towards Steven Moffat for the Sherlock finale stunt.


----------



## Dannichu

Eclipse said:


> But I have to totally agree with Dannichu
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler
> 
> 
> 
> Donna was my favorite, and seeing her go like that was depressing. ;_; Also the last minute hook up between Mickey and Martha was really really dumb. I mean, I can totally get pairing the spares, but really? And Riverrrrr, she has tragic character written all over her. We'll soon find out if she is...





Spoiler






Spoiler: The End of Time



Yeah, Donna is easily my favourite new companion, too. Then Rose, probably? On a rewatch of TEoT, I find myself more and more annoyed that Donna didn't _do_ anything. She starts to remember, is the only non-Master person on the planet, and then just... falls over? I spent the entire time I watched it for the first time expecting her to wake up and save the day in some manner, but she just stays unconcious the entire time. The plot would've been in no way different if she'd turned into John Simm along with everyone else, and that annoys increasingly with each watch.

With the Doctor's line "You think I'd leave my best friend without some kind of defence mechanism", I can handwave the fact the Doctor's spent ages over two episodes emphasising that if she remembers, she'll be dead only to basically go "LOL, J/K", but the best friend thing is adorable, but at the same time a title that belongs to Sarah Jane.



I agree with just about everything Kinova said, especially about The Almost People although I thought it was pretty strange how quickly Rory sided with the Flesh and nobody brought up his time as an Auton, which I thought would be an obvious link to make - he's spent thousands of years as an 'almost-person', the guy can sympathise.

But to join in the specualation, the first time Eyepatch Lady (I love how that's how she's named in the credits) appeared was, I think, The Day of the Moon, so I think she might've been changed sometime in the 3-month gap between that and The Impossible Astronaut. As for the baby/River, whooo boy, I haven't got a clue. The RTD-established Doctor's Time-Lord-Detector poses problems about either the baby or River being Time Lords, but I'm sure they could come up with an easy way to handwave that - Jenny's still running around somewhere, after all. 

I want to find out what River's done that's so bad, as well. Has it been established that she's killed someone, or is that my mind playing tricks on me?
I still want River to be a future incarnation of the Doctor. I know how little sense that makes.

I dunno, I think we might find out who the baby is next episode, but don't expect we'll know who River is until at least the end of the full season. The only thing that makes me think we'll find out in the next few years is that River's meant to be getting younger, and if Moffat holds out for too long, poor Alex Kingston'll be in her 80s XD

I genuinely think there'll be a heard-across-the-world scream of anger, confusion and frustratation from the United Kingdom following the end of Saturday's episode XD


----------



## opaltiger

Dannichu:

She's in prison for killing "the best man she ever knew", or something along those lines.


----------



## Arylett Charnoa

Ah, sadly I can't click on your tempting spoilers! I've only just started Season 3. But um, my... my... Doomsday... I'm just so totally upset about Rose leaving, even more than the Ninth Doctor, who I still prefer to the Tenth, to be honest. She really was one of my favourite characters and I don't know how this Martha Jonse woman is going to compare. From what I've seen of her thus far, she seems kind of... dull. Although Donna in the Christmas Special was pretty funny, I liked her slapping the Doctor and am aware she returns later. Honestly, I would've been okay with having Donna replace Rose early on than Martha Jones, who sort of to me just seems sort of crammed in there and out of place. 

Although Rose comes back for a short time, so I'm looking forward to that. Seriously, such a sad episode. I would've been crying if my sister wasn't in the room. Totally did not expect any of the events to happen the way they did.


----------



## opaltiger

Yup, Martha's primary characteristic is being boring. :D And hell yes, the world needs more Nine fans.


----------



## Dannichu

Eeeeee DONNA <333 Love her so, so much <3

I disliked Martha quite a bit during my first watch, and couldn't understand where on Earth the Rose-haters were coming from. But now I both like Martha a lot more, and have cooled off just a little towards Rose, though I still love Rose more. Martha gets some great episodes, though; she's sort-of there in Blink, and gets Gridlock and the Family of Blood 2-parter. 
But I'll never understand anyone who dislikes Donna. And I don't think I've ever met a Who fan who doesn't adore Sarah Jane.


----------



## Phantom

I was never particularly in love with Martha. I am a Rose fan for life. I seriously think Rose is the Sarah Jane of the new series... minus the real Sarah of course.


----------



## Blastoise Fortooate

I actually rather like Martha! She _is _a tad boring, I guess, but you can't make a great tv show sandwich without some bread among all of the lettuce and cheese. Rose always seemed kind of... snooty? to me. I like her well enough, but she seems like the most snarky and mean of the companions sometimes.


----------



## Zeph

Episode 6: W-w-w-w-WHAT? So Amy has been Flesh for how long? And how did she get to the, erm, for want of a better term, maternity ward? That episode was fantastic (Watched a week late since I was away all last week), but mighty confusing. Confusing BEYOND normal Doctor Who confusing.


----------



## Phantom

I finally get to see The Almost People! Been long enough... *starts staring at clock*. I hate this BBCA! Serious! Now the episode is ruined because every damn site has spoilers and I hear things and the episode is pretty much ruined. Seriously sucks.


----------



## Dannichu

Aaaaaahhhhh that was good. Very good. I *loved* everyone coming back, and although the *big reveal* was a little obvious, it was lovely to see it realised. I've just realised that the Cyberman at the beginning has nothing to do with the plot. Huh. Some great lines, too; we had a big old laugh about the doctor being able to speak baby XD

My biggest WTF??? during the whole episode, though, was the name of the next episode. I don't even.


----------



## Lady Grimdour

Really massive spoilers coming through.

RIVER IS AMY'S DAUGHTER. CALLED IT. And eew headless monks. Should've expected it, though. Also, no Jenny. ;_; We may have had butler!Jenny but we need another gun-toting time lord.

Also, I got a Mass Effect feel for this episode, well, the recruiting bit anyway. A disgraced sontaran nurse with apparently excellent breastfeeding capabilities, a Victorian silurian Batwoman and her cute human butler and a fat, old, blue black market dealer. Oh, and a bunch of pirates and the Lone Centurion.

I want a spinoff of Madame whatserface, the silurian Batwoman. Anyone catch her name? I was too busy gawping at her swords.

Once again, wat.

EDIT: THEORY TIEM.

River kills Rory. Melody is raised in the Gamma Forest, visited by the Doctor a la Kazram, but he stays for a while longer. Her first language is Gamma.

Why? She kills the greatest man she's ever known. Two key words: greatest man. Man is taken literally, as in human. And the greatest man in your life? Your father. The second and third bit is all in her name; River can't pronounce "Melody Pond" in Gamma because it doesn't exist in her, or anyone else's vocabulary in that area. So the Doctor lets them work it out; the nearest thing to a pond there is a river. And the nearest and simplest word to Melody is Song. River Song. Another fact: the Doctor sometimes calls Amy by her last name. That may have transferred onto little Melody, hence why her name is River and her assumed surname is Song.

And now to debunk this theory: River doesn't kill the Doctor.

Now that we know that River is part-time lord, and Amy's daughter, we can therefore assume that she's the girl in the suit, because she was to be made as a weapon against the Doctor. Now, since the Doctor presumably succeeds in rescuing Melody, that doesn't happen. However, they have her DNA. As far as we've seen, the flesh is an important prop. Having a flesh version of the weapon you wanted can be good enough, maybe. So a theory, unsupported as it may be, is that the child in the suit is a ganger of Melody. Why can't it be the real Melody? River emptied a revolver at it. She must have known it's not her, because you don't fire six killing shots at your younger self. Also, her reaction in the bar. She genuinely didn't know.

Although if we are to take this the other way, the ganger Melody killed the Doctor, the Good Man who went to war. The man who raised her. The man who flies through time and space inside a wooden box. The greatest man who ever lived. So in a way...

River kills the Doctor.

Moffat, you cheeky devil.


----------



## Phantom

Can I say I called it too? I KNEW IT! What I don't get it 



Spoiler



the Doctor can sense other Time Lords, how come he couldn't sense _any _of the versions of River????

Also these Time Lords need to make a visit to Maury.... seriously.


 
Also Chameleon Circuit's new album is coming out, tis called "Still Got Legs" and the band has some new additions.


----------



## Lady Grimdour

Remember that technically, River isn't even a proper time lord. She is, as the computer showed, Human+. So she just has the physiology, but not the essence.


----------



## shy ♡

Yeah that episode was awesome but 'Let's Kill Hitler' is going to drive me insane because that is not a name for an episode. Really. Really? I just can't.


----------



## Lady Grimdour

Pathos said:


> Yeah that episode was awesome but 'Let's Kill Hitler' is going to drive me insane because that is not a name for an episode. Really. Really? I just can't.


It's the Moff messing with us again.


----------



## Zeph

Yeah, the title threw me a little too at first, but when you think about it, it does sort of work in an almost ironic fashion. Which I know probably doesn't make any sense. But oh well.

Incidentally,



Zephyrous Castform said:


> I got the idea that the little girl is Amy's daughter, but is also River. I don't know why that came to me, though!


Yesss I was right. Except not necessarily for the part about the spacesuit girl!

But yeah, I really liked that episode. I thought it was a very nice way to round off this 'half' of the series... And a nice way to make the reveal, too. Also, I'm glad that they used the Headless Monks, who were previously mentioned in season 5 (Specifically, the Doctor said the museum where they found River's message was 'The last resting place of the Headless Monks')!


----------



## Dannichu

Hehehe, rewatched A Good Man Goes to War and I'm still revelling in the brilliance. 



Spoiler



That Sontaran is one of the funniest Who characters I've ever seen. He's just _priceless_ XD

And I totally want Madame Vastra (played by Neve McIntosh, I love that she plays _every_ female Silurian) and Jenny to have their own spin-off show or something because they're awesome.


----------



## Phantom

I just saw it via teh youtubes.

EPIC, and Dani is right, there needs to be more Madame Vastra and Jenny becausethey were soooo awesome. I soo knew the baby was only a Ganger. And the Sontaran/Rory thing "I'm a nurse..." Gotta wonder if he knew. :3 And River, "Can't you read???"

Also the River thing bothers me... Her and the Doctor... I mean now that we know for sure... The Doctor's like her... Uncle... Aunt... whatever. :3

I am still for Doctor/Sexy


----------



## shy ♡

Yeah, I can't ship 11/anyone seriously. He's too ace and childlike and uhg it's just disturbing. Doctor/Sexy works for me just fine. 

Also, Madame Vastra/Jenny = ultimate who ship.


----------



## Zeph

Pathos said:


> Also, Madame Vastra/Jenny = ultimate who ship.


Arr, but I'm pretty sure that's canon.


----------



## shy ♡

Zephyrous Castform said:


> Arr, but I'm pretty sure that's canon.


... So? Ships don't have to be fanon.


----------



## Zeph

Pathos said:


> ... So? Ships don't have to be fanon.


Oh, sorry. I misinterpreted! I thoguht your point was something along the lines of 'I wish they WERE together'. Forgive me!


----------



## Dannichu

The more I think about it, the more convinced I am that the inclusion of Vastra and Jenny are a sort of apology to all the fans who shipped Amy and River and now feel... a bit awkward. (I'm actually not one of these people!)

Ahahaha, and a tweet from Neil Gaiman to Steven Moffat: "I think Madam Vastra should act as well as solve crimes. Then she'd be a Victorian Silurian Lesbian Thespian."


----------



## shy ♡

I didn't know anyone shipped those two... (but of course they did haha). I think it's just because Moffat is obsessed with gay, honestly.


----------



## Zeph

Dannichu said:


> Ahahaha, and a tweet from Neil Gaiman to Steven Moffat: "I think Madam Vastra should act as well as solve crimes. Then she'd be a Victorian Silurian Lesbian Thespian."


...That is extortionately fabulous. :D


----------



## Lady Grimdour

Pathos said:


> I didn't know anyone shipped those two... (but of course they did haha). I think it's just because Moffat is obsessed with gay, honestly.


It's canon. No need for anyone to ship it. Just because it's gay doesn't mean it's not canon.



> Vastra: Mammals; they all look the same.
> Jenny: Thank you.
> Vastra: (comes closer to Jenny) Am I being insensitive again, dear?
> (guard wakes up, Vastra slaps guard with her long, snakelike tongue)
> Vastra: I don't know why you put up with me.


Also, He killed off the gay Anglican soldiers and Doriam who's inexplicably gay and introduced Madame Vastra and her butler-lover Jenny. It's not a gay obsession dear, he's just red-blooded.


----------



## shy ♡

Grimdour said:


> It's canon. No need for anyone to ship it. Just because it's gay doesn't mean it's not canon.





Pathos said:


> ... So? Ships don't have to be fanon.









And don't call me 'dear'. I am not your dear.


----------



## Dannichu

Spoiler



Uuuh, I think Pathos meant Amy/River. Which really, really isn't canon XD

As far as I can remember, Vastra and Jenny are the only lesbians from Moffat-era Who (and the only ones from RTD-era that come to mind were the elderly couple in Gridlock and Sky in Midnight), so it's not really being 'red-blooded'. There've been way more queer guys in NewWho, and most of them don't die (and one of them dies a lot, but keeps on coming back).

Moff _did_ write the lesbian PI couple on Jekyll (oh my god, they were the absolute _coolest_), gave John a crapload of subtext with Sherlock/a gay sister in Sherlock and I think one of his characters in Coupling was bi, so he's definitely gay-friendly, but I still don't think it counts as 'obsessed'. More like 'an accurate representation of the number of gay people within the general population'.


----------



## Lady Grimdour

Dannichu said:


> Uuuh, I think Pathos meant Amy/River. Which really, really isn't canon XD
> 
> As far as I can remember, Vastra and Jenny are the only lesbians from Moffat-era Who (and the only ones from RTD-era that come to mind were the elderly couple in Gridlock and Sky in Midnight), so it's not really being 'red-blooded'. There've been way more queer guys in NewWho, and most of them don't die (and one of them dies a lot, but keeps on coming back).


Ah, right. But by red-blooded I mean "red-blooded male". As in he put in fanservice for the guys. Because let's face it, between all the Doctor/Master ships, the guys don't get anything apart from the odd sexy character of the day. The Moff has heard our calls.

Also, we should put Spoiler Alert on the thread name because every post has a spoiler now, much easier to just spoiler the thread instead.


----------



## Zeph

Grimdour said:


> Ah, right. But by red-blooded I mean "red-blooded male". As in he put in fanservice for the guys. Because let's face it, between all the Doctor/Master ships, the guys don't get anything apart from the odd sexy character of the day. The Moff has heard our calls.


...Erm? Besides the fact that not all men are particularly interested in lesbian couples, not all... people... are particularly, erm, aroused? By shippings? Or canon couples? I don't know? And something else too, but I forgot. When it comes back to me I'll say! Perhaps!



Grimdour said:


> Also, we should put Spoiler Alert on the thread name because every post has a spoiler now, much easier to just spoiler the thread instead.


Well yeeaah... But there are some people, like Arylett for example, who aren't watching series 6 right now, who are behind by a number of series, and so who have to catch up... So seeing spoilers for series 6 would be a bit unfortunate for them.


----------



## Lady Grimdour

>all men
There's your mistake. I wasn't talking about all men, I was talking about the fanboys who would like the same treatment as some of the fangirls do; get two of the sexiest characters who just also happen to be the same sex together.

The girls get Jack and Ianto? The guys get Vastra and Jenny. It's just a simple obervation.


----------



## shy ♡

Grimdour said:


> >all men
> There's your mistake. I wasn't talking about all men, I was talking about the fanboys who would like the same treatment as some of the fangirls do; get two of the sexiest characters who just also happen to be the same sex together.
> 
> The girls get Jack and Ianto? The guys get Vastra and Jenny. It's just a simple obervation.


Oh my god stop fetishizing people. Girls don't 'get' Jack and Ianto and guys don't 'get' Vastra and Jenny, no more than anyone gets straight couples. Jfc.


----------



## Phantom

Ianto.... *tears* I sent in coffee to the BBC when he died.


----------



## Dannichu

Spoiler: Torchwood: Children of Earth



I might've said this before, but my Welsh housemate tells me that, if you go to the big statue-thing that Torchwood 3's meant to be under (obviously Torchwood isn't there, but the big statue-thing is), there are HUGE amounts of flowers, pictures, poems and all sorts in memory of Ianto all along that section of Cardiff Bay. Which is both sweet and creepy in equal measure.


----------



## Phantom

Imagine how creepy it is for Gareth


----------



## Lady Grimdour

Dannichu said:


> Spoiler: Torchwood: Children of Earth
> 
> 
> 
> I might've said this before, but my Welsh housemate tells me that, if you go to the big statue-thing that Torchwood 3's meant to be under (obviously Torchwood isn't there, but the big statue-thing is), there are HUGE amounts of flowers, pictures, poems and all sorts in memory of Ianto all along that section of Cardiff Bay. Which is both sweet and creepy in equal measure.


It's not in Torchwood Tower, it's in the boardwalk door that actually leads to nowhere. Tourists think someone actually died there. And the memorials come from EVERYWHERE; Germany, Canada, USA, there's even one from Taiwan.


----------



## Dannichu

This, this, this a million times :D

And, whooop, Matt Smith has been confirmed for the next series! I particularly enjoy the quote from Moffat: "14 eps + Matt DEFINITELY. I've got a plan and I'm NOT TELLING YOU WHAT IT IS." I bet you bloody do.

And GIANT SPOILERS, but this is funny as hell XD


----------



## Phantom

Spoiler



In that video Danni I want to kill all the people who refer to the Doctor as "Doctor Who". >:[


----------



## opaltiger

"Moffat is not known for doing romantic comedy"? Except he kinda is. :D


----------



## Lady Grimdour

He got screwed by Moffat twice, apparently. This is the first.


----------



## Dannichu

Hee, that one's great.

I always forget that Moffat did Coupling! Probably because it isn't SCARY AS ALL HELL.

Also, I am so unimpressed with this.


----------



## Phantom

Dannichu said:


> Also, I am so unimpressed with this.


You'd think people would realize that girls are into Doctor Who by the massive amount of Tennant fangirls?


----------



## Dannichu

I know, right? And Pokemon is 'for boys' now? :/

Anyways, I promise I'll stop spamming links (ones you've probably already seen, at that) all over the place here one day, but for now have the cutest thing you'll see all day.


----------



## RosesBones

You know, it's kind of cute that that is what the kid wanted to do, but I just find the whole thing kind of annoying. Maybe if I could tell what he was saying... :/


----------



## Eclipse

Oh yes, that little kid. He's pretty adorable, and I find it awesome Moffat linked it on his Twitter. :D

Meanwhile, I've found Doctor Who and Sherlock tags on pixiv and I've been fangirling the past few days at all the fanart ahaha.

... Also uh, is it bad I'm more of a Matt Smith fangirl than I am a David Tennant fangirl? Tennant was great and all, but I just really love the adorkableness of Smith.

To stave off the time waiting for Doctor Who and Sherlock, I've been trying to catch up with Torchwood and Sarah Jane Adventures. I've started with Torchwood first, and I'm currently on the first season and three episodes away from the finale. So far I'm not exactly enjoying Gwen's characterization. Her empathy and "Heart" status of Torchwood jumps between being depicted as a positive asset or a laggard and I'm frustrated the writers aren't making up their mind. So yeah, static characters make me sad. ;_;


----------



## RosesBones

It is in no way a bad thing to be more of a fangirl for one Doctor than for another. It is simply a difference in opinion from some people. :)


----------



## Dannichu

Rose99280 said:


> You know, it's kind of cute that that is what the kid wanted to do, but I just find the whole thing kind of annoying. Maybe if I could tell what he was saying... :/


I guess it helped that I pretty much know the speech by heart, thanks to excessive listening to the I Am The Doctor track from Doctor Who at the Proms (this). Oh, Murray Gold, you are so good.



Eclipse said:


> Oh yes, that little kid. He's pretty adorable, and I find it awesome Moffat linked it on his Twitter. :D
> 
> Meanwhile, I've found Doctor Who and Sherlock tags on pixiv and I've been fangirling the past few days at all the fanart ahaha.
> 
> ... Also uh, is it bad I'm more of a Matt Smith fangirl than I am a David Tennant fangirl? Tennant was great and all, but I just really love the adorkableness of Smith.
> 
> To stave off the time waiting for Doctor Who and Sherlock, I've been trying to catch up with Torchwood and Sarah Jane Adventures. I've started with Torchwood first, and I'm currently on the first season and three episodes away from the finale. So far I'm not exactly enjoying Gwen's characterization. Her empathy and "Heart" status of Torchwood jumps between being depicted as a positive asset or a laggard and I'm frustrated the writers aren't making up their mind. So yeah, static characters make me sad. ;_;


I love your Sherlocky sig! :D

Stick with Torchwood, I think it gets better as it goes along - series 1 is generally regarded to be terrible (I have a magazine that rated every episode of NuWho-related TV up to he Runaway Bride, and the single episode of SJA that had aired at that time was ranked higher than any episode of S1 of Torchwood), but the characterisation and writing gets a bit better in S2, and then series 3 is really very good. 

And you've probably noticed my SJA love already, so. Series 1 is fantastic, and it just sort of stays that way. The only bad thing I have to say about it is the horrendously annoying girl in the pilot, and she doesn't appear thereafter.

I think I like the Eleventh Doctor marginally more than the Tenth, but in terms of which actor I like best... I dunno, Matt just seems to have so much crazy fun with Karen and Arthur that I want to hang out and be BFFs with them, but on the other hand, the Specials DVD has a little story David wrote about himself going back in time and telling his younger self about how one day he's going to grow up and play the Doctor (his 6-year-old self's reaction: "Tom Baker _leaves_?") and how he's going to have _the time of his life_ and it's probably the sweetest thing I've ever read. I love them both SO MUCH <3 But I fangirl Elisabeth Sladen most of all.


----------



## RosesBones

Aw, but Ten is all tragic and stuff! All the time! XP
I am and shall forever be a Tennant fangirl. :D

On another note, is Doctor Who getting more predictable or am I just really good at predicting plot developments?


----------



## opaltiger

No, it's just that this time there is actual plot to predict.


----------



## Zeph

opaltiger said:


> No, it's just that this time there is actual plot to predict.


Mmm - Whereas the vast majority of Ten's 'plot', as excellent as his series were, was just "Hey, let's go here and do this now! Ooh, something else happened, let's do that! Oh no! This has happened! We'll have to do that!" with no particular major continuity besides perhaps Dalek Caan, and even that was just sort of thrown in there.


----------



## Phantom

Zephyrous Castform said:


> Mmm - Whereas the vast majority of Ten's 'plot', as excellent as his series were, was just "Hey, let's go here and do this now! Ooh, something else happened, let's do that! Oh no! This has happened! We'll have to do that!" with no particular major continuity besides perhaps Dalek Caan, and even that was just sort of thrown in there.


 
Except for you know the whole "Silence will fall" and the whole "he will knock four times" or "Bad Wolf" or Donna Noble, Rose Tyler, or Captain Jack coming back, or "Harold Saxon posters", _there's _nooo continuity.


----------



## Zeph

Phantom said:


> Except for you know the whole "Silence will fall"


That was series 5, was it not? Unless I'm wrong, which I may well be!



Phantom said:


> and the whole "he will knock four times" or "Bad Wolf" or Donna Noble, Rose Tyler, or Captain Jack coming back, or "Harold Saxon posters", _there's _nooo continuity.


...See! I was wrong here, too! Do forgive me, it's definitely been too long since I watched series 1-4. Also, by continuity I meant more a plot that threads throughout the whole series (Like Bad Wolf, knock four times, the Silence, the cracks, Amy's pregnancy, the Doctor's death, rather than characters returning). Also, if my mentioning of Caan seems hypocritical, I meant _that_ more in the sense of the fact that although he was one of the Cult of Skaro, he then unexpectedly pretty much brought about the demise of all the other Daleks.


----------



## Phantom

Zephyrous Castform said:


> That was series 5, was it not? Unless I'm wrong, which I may well be!


 
Was never mad XD. 

"Silence will fall" was first mentioned in "The End of Time Pt. 1". The lead Ood told it to Ten, I think.... I might have to re watch it, but I'm pretty sure. 


I know this because the Doctor Who Podshock was arguing about why they love/hate RTD's story arcs.

Read this. If it's got a wiki it must be true. :P
But you were right about the Cult of Skaro being an arc. It's a minor arc that was uber delayed.

Don't forget the cracks!


----------



## Eclipse

Not gonna lie though, it does feel like Eleven's run has a more overarching plot than Ten's, which is probably why I enjoy his run a bit better. Ten's run was still amazing though, and it was probably his spontaneity that made him all the more attractive. I just wish Eleven's run was also a bit more spontaneous because, _just look at him_. He's the universe's oldest nine-year old and he'd probably get excited as hell getting caught in random things at random times.

And Dannichu, I'll take your word as gold. I'll try to get through Torchwood so I can start SJA. ;v; And ahaha thank you, I thought it was time to change my set.


----------



## Dannichu

I quite like the "Let's go here! Meet some people! Help them solve a problem that is happening and maybe talk for a bit about how fantastic humanity is!" layout of RTD's writing. Don't get me wrong, Moffat's twists and writing are excellent and I really enjoyed The Doctor's Wife, but Moffat's series is making the Doctor's journeys seem increasingly... predetermined, I think, and maybe it lacks the, as Eclipse said, spontaneous freedom that Ten had. 
But I also think Eleven's run has far fewer bad episodes than Ten (the only really disappointing one so far, I think, was Curse of the Black Spot and maybe Vampires of Venice), and that's got to count for something.

And anyway - it's way better than back in the day, when they'd have up to six episodes with one giant overarching (and massively streched) story.



Eclipse said:


> And Dannichu, I'll take your word as gold. I'll try to get through Torchwood so I can start SJA. ;v; And ahaha thank you, I thought it was time to change my set.


I really hope you like them now XD


----------



## RosesBones

I would argue that both of those episodes, while not great, were only disappointing to some because of the outrageously high standard the truly excellent episodes set. The only episode that I have ever thought of as actually being bad, in the entire (new) series, is Midnight (Season 4, Episode...10, I think). That one sucked, and I refuse to ever watch it again.
I agree with your assessment of Moffat's writing wholeheartedly. I miss spontaneity! Things aren't wibbly-wobbly anymore. They're still timey-wimey, but I love wibbly-wobbly too! ;_;


----------



## opaltiger

_What?_ Midnight is one of the best things RTD has ever written :(

edit: also how is it possible for ANYONE to like the Daleks in Manhattan two-parter :((


----------



## Dannichu

I think Midnight is the most Marmitey episode of NewWho. I didn't like it much at all when I first watched it (possibly because I spent the entire time going "but where's Donna?"), but I really like it now, even though I don't usually like the "humanity sort of sucks" episodes (I'm looking at _you_, 42).

My least favourite episodes are probably Fear Her, Love and Monsters, The Long Game, The Christmas Invasion and the Daleks in Manhatten 2-parter.

I'm alone in absolutely loving The Unicorn and the Wasp, and I don't dislike The Doctor's Daughter as much as everyone else does.


----------



## opaltiger

> I'm alone in absolutely loving The Unicorn and the Wasp.


No you're not, god. >:(


----------



## Phantom

My least favorite, damn I am such a fan I don't even know. If I had to say I would go with Dalek's In Manhatten 2 parter. I like Love and Monsters like maybe once or twice, but it's not an episode I would go 'ooooo I want to watch that again!'.  

Midnight was one of my favorites! ROAST BEEF! BANANAS! THE MEDUSA CASCADE!.....BANG! ROSETYLERMARTHAJONESDONNANOBLETARDIS!.... Shamble bobble dibble dooble... I actually like the fact Donna wasn't in it really because, well, that was her character. Go on creepy bus to diamond cave thingy or relax and kick back and epic future resort.... yeah Donna has the right idea.


----------



## RosesBones

You are all crazy. Midnight makes no sense and I maintain that my assessment of it is correct. No hard feelings though, differences in opinion. ^_^
I second what opaltiger said! In no way are you alone in loving The Unicorn and the Wasp.


----------



## Zeph

I liked Midnight :<

Also, The Unicorn and the Wasp was quite good too, from what I remember of it though! Creepy giant wasp was creepy, though.


----------



## Phantom

Issue with The Unicorn and the Wasp for me is, BBCA played it sooo much, that or every time I happened to watch Doctor Who on the weekdays that would be the episode that was on, that and The Shakespeare Code... Happy though, BBCA just restarted with "Rose" on Thursday. Hello S1, haven't seen you in a while. 


Other awesome episodes, New Earth, School Reunion, The Empty Child/The Doctor Dances (of course), Bad Wolf ("But you're unarmed! And naked!"), Silence in the Library/Forest of the Dead, Midnight, gah soooo many...


One episode I truly don't like, I mean it had it's funny bits but really, no, just, no.... Gridlock.

In other news, SQUEEEE!
Also  why are they calling Torchwood: Miracle Day a Stars original series? Terrible! Just like Being Human was Syfy's "original series" even though the same show, of the same name already was on S3 on BBC and had a strong, booming fanbase? Change the names of a show and it's still NOT YOURS! If they muss up Torchwood I will feed them to Myfanwy


----------



## Dannichu

Aaaah, no. Gridlock is one of my absolute favourite episodes. I was pretty indifferent to it when I first saw it, but I love it more and more every time I see it, and now it's comfortably one of my favourites. Aside from the Family of Blood two-parter, probably my favourite Martha story of all. Cat people! One of the scariest premises of any Who story ever! The Face of Boe! And it's so _happy_ at the end! People are fundamentally good!

I can acknowledge that from one angle, School Reunion might not be particularly good - the actual plot is fairly terrible, but the sub-plot of the Doctor always leaving his companions behind and acknowledging the finite nature of relationships was absolutely brilliant and the only thing that could've made it better would be Anthony Head and Elisabeth Sladen. Oh wait! <3
(although, speaking of, he _could_ mention his past companions a bit more. It'd be lovely to get some acknowledgement from Moff that non-Amy/River/Rory companions exist)

In the same way, I get that Unicorn and the Wasp is actually pretty terrble, plot-wise. It's one of the absolute funniest episodes of Who ever (the scene with the flashbacks is hilarious and the detoxing bit in the kitchen was glorious), but the whole wasp thing was ridiculous and could've been done much better, especially where they tried to overexplain it all (she loved him even when he was a giant wasp? The wasp thought the world was like a Christie novel because the woman was reading a book at the time? The wasp-man had never been angry before his 30th birthday?), but egregious Christie references all over the place make everything better! :D

The new Torchwood (trailer) looks really interesting, but... not Doctor Who-y at all. It's like Doctor Who's second cousin twice removed, and all those guns and explosions and the _rocket launcher_ look really strange. I enjoy joking about what Doctor Who would look like if it were made in America - I guess I've got my answer. One of the things I really liked about Torchwood was, even though they were dealing with aliens and having gunfights and all sorts all the time, they were in _Wales_, which makes everything sort of charming, which I don't see as much in this show. Although the final line - oh, how I laughed XD
I hope it's good and, to be honest, I can't imagine it being worse than S1 of TW, so bring it on.


----------



## Phantom

S1 wasn't that bad. I mean it did set up, I mean season one of a lot of shows sucked, but I think it was more character building. I just hope that America doesn't ruin Torchwood. That would make me feel bad. :C

Besides I thought Jack had a rocket launcher already.

The more Torchwood progressed the less Whovian it became. I think they are a show all their own now. Torchwood grew up. What I would love for Jack to meet Eleven, it would be hilarious and most likely would have a joke addressing that the Doctor was too young for Jack now. XD. But that would bring the fact that it is a spin off back into light.

You're right about past companions now. Even Ten mentioned Rose when she was gone, in fact a lot, well she was a plot point... But still, a little mention of, I don't know, Adric, Ace, Sarah Jane :'( , or even Polly for Rassilon's sake, would be nice. Hell even the new series characters, Marth or Donna, the Doctor is obviously over Rose... We need a Handy/Rose Tyler spinoff (Handy= Biological Metacrisis Doctor). I heard it mentioned there was one where they reffered to Handy as being  the Valeyard  I need to look into that.


----------



## RosesBones

I just call Handy Clone-boy. :3


----------



## Zeph

That Torchwod trailer looks alright actually! The best aprt is, of course,
"If you're the best England's got to offer then god help me."
"I'm Welsh. *Punch*"
But it looks generally okay besides that, too. Although creepy bloody exploded not-corpse is mildly disturbing.


----------



## Eclipse

Oooh, while I was driving through LA to get to Irvine, I saw a gigantic poster promoting Starz' run of Torchwood. :D It made my day. Unfortunately I can't discuss anything since I'm barely into Season 2 but so far, I'm trying to keep up the hope it'll get better.

It's also pretty much canon that 10.5 and Rose grew their own TARDIS, or at least, trying to, so there's a spin-off idea right there. And personally, I think Eleven or possibly Twelve will have a better chance of being the Valeyard. I hope that doesn't entail a Break the Cutie process because Eleven happens to be my favorite. ;_;

And speaking of episodes, all of them had their own merit, but Fear Her, The Unicorn and the Wasp, and the Curse of the Black Spot aren't the episodes I'd want to watch again. But I found Midnight brilliant, and I think it was the only episode that actually made me panic for the Doctor's safety. XD;;


----------



## Lady Grimdour

YAAY MIRACLE DAY.

I think I'm gonna love this new series. To me, Torchwood has always been X-Files in Britain. Which doesn't work, considering the head writer also writes for the silliest character in the universe played by the silliest thespian in Scotland. I'd love to see how the folks from beyond the pond make this.


----------



## Kinova

I enjoy the intelligence of Midnight, and the claustrophohic atmosphere of it, but I'm not going to lie - the characters of Jethro's parents are so infuriating they almost ruin parts of the episode. They're a reflection of a certain attitude the episode is trying to highlight, I know, but... they're annoying! 'I said it was her.'

Least favourite is probably Fear Her, but I can find things to like in it regardless. Like the edible ball bearings. And I suppose I have to come clean about liking Daleks in Manhatten. :v The pig and the showgirl, come onnnnn! And I like the idea of a Dalek in spats, what can you do.

They mention older past companions more often in SJA! :D ... That's kind of a given isn't it. But I do wish Moffat would bring the mention of their names into NuNuWho once in a while; I understand he wants to distance himself from the RTD era, but it's still the same show, and the same character (something that seems to have gone a bit wonky recently, all this Doctor-initiated violence is making me sad).

What is this I don't think I've posted in this thread since before the series finale. Disgraceful. I enjoyed it; it had a cool cast, and felt more like the old 'ADVENTUUUURE' atmosphere since they were actually done with leading up to somthing and could crack on with it. It felt pretty open-ended, but I suppose that's the problem with a two-parter with a _three month gap _between halves. Oh, and that decidedly Valleys Sontaran was my favourite... person. Potato. Whatever. 'I'm not enjoying [death] as much as I had hoped. :|' Madam Lizard and Jenny* were excellent also.

I don't really get how Torchwood is going to be working now. Is Gwen going to leave Rhys bouncing their baby on his knee at the pub while she kills aliens and stuff in America or what...?

*There are lots of Who characters called Jenny. Aside from that one, there was Jennifer in the previous episode, Jenny-his-daughter, Jenny the other maid in the Family of Blood episodes, they're everywheeeere. I want to re-watch NuWho and play spot the Jenny.


----------



## Dannichu

Hiiiii Jason-Kun! :D



Kinova said:


> They mention older past companions more often in SJA! :D ... That's kind of a given isn't it. But I do wish Moffat would bring the mention of their names into NuNuWho once in a while; I understand he wants to distance himself from the RTD era, but it's still the same show, and the same character (something that seems to have gone a bit wonky recently, all this Doctor-initiated violence is making me sad).


Agreeing with everything Kinova said, but especially this, and oh god I wibbled so much at the end of Death of the Doctor when Sarah Jane says what all the past companions have been up to! It was _perfect_ and aaaaahhh I'm going wibbly again just thinking about it~

(speaking of, BBC hurry up and release S4 on DVD already, I want to watch S4 properly! Although I guess they'll probably wait until they air the three episodes of S5 they completed and release them as a bonus? I certianly hope so ;;)


----------



## Eclipse

From what I've heard, SJA is just a lighter and fluffier Doctor Who, but that doesn't mean it's just for kids so I think it'd be great to watch it. :D

Also guys, I've seen the casting for Let's Kill Hitler and kid!Amy returns and there's even going to be a kid!Rory. This sounds pretty suspicious and probably focuses on Amy and Rory's childhood. Still, judging by the title, it doesn't sound very pretty... Especially considering both of them had a rocky childhood since Rory dressed up as the Raggedy Doctor. XD


----------



## Dannichu

Eclipse said:


> From what I've heard, SJA is just a lighter and fluffier Doctor Who, but that doesn't mean it's just for kids so I think it'd be great to watch it. :D


Basically this. If it helps, imagine if the Doctor was the awesomest 60-something woman in the world (who doesn't have a TARDIS, but doesn't even need one, dammit!) who collects kids in a non-creepy way and takes them out alien-hunting. These kids manage to be more emotionally mature than the entire cast of Torchwood, and while fewer people end up dead than in Who/TW, it doesn't shy away from issues like death and abandonment and mental illness like other "kids's shows" do.

(And, the first episode (while good) isn't brilliant, so don't let it cloud your judgement.)

And to properly reply to Kinova's post:



> I enjoy the intelligence of Midnight, and the claustrophohic atmosphere of it, but I'm not going to lie - the characters of Jethro's parents are so infuriating they almost ruin parts of the episode. They're a reflection of a certain attitude the episode is trying to highlight, I know, but... they're annoying! 'I said it was her.'
> 
> Least favourite is probably Fear Her, but I can find things to like in it regardless. Like the edible ball bearings. And I suppose I have to come clean about liking Daleks in Manhatten. :v The pig and the showgirl, come onnnnn! And I like the idea of a Dalek in spats, what can you do.
> 
> They mention older past companions more often in SJA! :D ... That's kind of a given isn't it. But I do wish Moffat would bring the mention of their names into NuNuWho once in a while; I understand he wants to distance himself from the RTD era, but it's still the same show, and the same character (something that seems to have gone a bit wonky recently, all this Doctor-initiated violence is making me sad).
> 
> What is this I don't think I've posted in this thread since before the series finale. Disgraceful. I enjoyed it; it had a cool cast, and felt more like the old 'ADVENTUUUURE' atmosphere since they were actually done with leading up to somthing and could crack on with it. It felt pretty open-ended, but I suppose that's the problem with a two-parter with a three month gap between halves. Oh, and that decidedly Valleys Sontaran was my favourite... person. Potato. Whatever. 'I'm not enjoying [death] as much as I had hoped. :|' Madam Lizard and Jenny* were excellent also.
> 
> I don't really get how Torchwood is going to be working now. Is Gwen going to leave Rhys bouncing their baby on his knee at the pub while she kills aliens and stuff in America or what...?
> 
> *There are lots of Who characters called Jenny. Aside from that one, there was Jennifer in the previous episode, Jenny-his-daughter, Jenny the other maid in the Family of Blood episodes, they're everywheeeere. I want to re-watch NuWho and play spot the Jenny.


One of the things I love about Midnight is how damn good the acting is. Someone repreating what you're saying is usually so annoying, but they make it so _creepy_, it's brilliant. And I adore Lesley Jones, Sky's actress - she's on an ITV murder mystery called Scott & Bailey at the moment and plays opposite Suranne Jones (Idris from The Doctor's Wife) and alongside Rupert Graves (Lestrade from Sherlock) and Amelia Bullmore (Alex's mum in Ashes to Ashes). It's not as good as it _should_ be.

I totally love the edible ball bearings bit! I really, really love any time they mention someone completely random and everyday as being special to humanity. <3 See the Torchwood quote in my signature :D

Speaking of Torchwood, I don't get how it's going to work, either. Some of the stuff I've read seems to hint that they'll have massive UST (possible actual romance?) between Jack and Gwen, which I DO NOT WANT because Rhys is the loveliest person ever and now she's married with a kid, it just seems really wrong and OOC. But PC Andy's coming back, which makes me unreasonably happy, and RTD has confirmed that, despite the Americaness, it's going to remin true to its Welshness, with at least one episode being set there. Here's hoping!

And I don't get all the Jennys, either. Of all the names, they had to go with this one? From what I've seen, lots of people were confused when Jenny and Vastra appeared, thinking that a) Vastra was a Slurian we'd met before (and, let's face it, the fact she's played by the actress who played the other Slurians probably didn't help), and b) Jenny was a reincarnation of the Doctor's Daughter-Jenny. Just stick with calling everyone Smith and Jones, Who writers.

Oh, speaking of, I realised only recently that in The Doctor's Wife, the Doctor and Tardis are played by Matt _Smith_ and Suranne _Jones_. So perfect <3


----------



## Lady Grimdour

Also, people actually die in SJA.


----------



## RosesBones

I <3 edible ball bearings. I wish I could get some. :( Stupid US. Lucky I even know what ball bearings are... *grumblegrumblewhinetirade*

Heh, the thing with the Doctor and Sexy is _perfect_.


----------



## Butterfree

AND I AM HERE AND I HAVE WATCHED ALL OF NEW WHO AND CAN COMMENT NOW.

Ooookay. Favorite episodes. In general quality terms, Moffat's episodes are all unquestionably brilliant/scary/funny/etc. and kind of inevitably wind up very near the top. But in me-personally-being-personally-me terms, I would have to say Midnight, The Waters of Mars and The End of Time are my top three.

Midnight 



Spoiler



is basically _ridiculously_ intense and capitalizes on fear of the unknown like nobody's business. It takes a situation that seems really innocuous on paper ("Their bus crashes on an alien planet, and suddenly one of the passengers starts to repeat everything they say! Oh no!") and makes it so creepy I didn't properly recover for several minutes afterwards. The atmosphere gets increasingly claustrophobic, you have absolutely _no_ idea what the hell this thing is or what it's trying to do or what's going to happen next, and the people on the bus are a scarily perfect representation of how real frightened people might act in a situation like this; of all Doctor Who episodes this one might have felt the most psychologically real. And the sheer effort that must have gone into the acting is ridiculous.

But most of all, I love David Tennant once he gets frozen and starts repeating, because somehow despite that he is frozen in place and can't speak except in droned repetitions of what everyone else is saying, you can _still_ practically hear the Doctor screaming for help behind it.



The Waters of Mars 



Spoiler



may be my _absolute_ favorite for several reasons. For one, Adelaide Brooke is all kinds of epic; second, everyone is making heroic sacrifices and having families they leave behind and it's all awww depressing (I like that, okay), and finally and most importantly, the Doctor going through all the agony of not being able to save people and actually _cracking_ under the pressure and deciding he'll _save them anyway_ and having that intense little fit of megalomania when he seemingly succeeds at defying the laws he's always taken for granted and then it all goes horribly wrong and he's all psychologically tortured about it. :D



And The End of Time, 



Spoiler



though things bug me about it (especially, as Dannichu mentioned, the bit where they randomly have Donna in it even though she ends up not doing anything), has Ten being ridiculously afraid of dying which is just the best thing ever. And he considers using a gun (I DON'T KNOW WHY I HAVE A THING FOR THE DOCTOR POINTING A GUN AT PEOPLE BUT FOR SOME NONSENSICAL REASON I DO). And he crashes through a class roof and gets all cut! And then just when he thinks he's survived he hears Wilfred knocking and launches into a completely adorable desperate I-don't-want-to-die rant but then does it anyway and is curled up in horrible pain and then says goodbye to everyone and goes to regenerate and _still doesn't want to go_ and did I mention the part where it's the best thing ever?



I also love Gridlock because kitties and everyone is adorable and it's all heartwarming and hopeful and delightful. (I'm not _always_ horribly morbid and depressing, shut up.)

If you couldn't tell I think I'm ever so slightly a Ten fangirl, largely because he's the one that's all terrified of dying and adorable, and he is my favorite Doctor. Eleven is amazing and hilarious but spends nearly all of his time in the same eccentric ultra-quirky mood which is wonderful but just doesn't press my fangirlbuttons. My feelings about Nine are kind of similar, _but_ I actually really liked Nine in Dalek because the unnervingly murderous desperation with which he rants at the Dalek ("Why won't you just _die_?!") was pretty interesting. So right now I actually think Eleven is my least favorite Doctor but that kind of breaks my heart because he _is_ adorable and hilarious and completely lovable and also has intriguing moments. I'm just still waiting for him to get an episode where he seems really _compelling_ to me. Which I really want him to because his series has all sorts of awesome episodes and really interesting plot stuff and I want to be able to properly fangirl it as much as Ten's series, damn it.

I really don't know what my least favorite episodes are. Love & Monsters was _really weird_, but I didn't exactly hate it; 



Spoiler



the main character was pretty adorable (and reminded me very amusingly of Billy in Doctor Horrible) and it had some genuinely funny moments and the idea of this geeky club gathering around the mystery of the Doctor that then just turns into a group of good friends is pretty much the most adorable heartwarming thing ever. But then it had the Absorbaloff which was just terribly silly and it was so _pointlessly_ depressing (oh, hey, let's kill off all the adorable friends and leave one living as a face in a pavement slab without it properly raising the stakes or making any kind of point at all!) and everyone was acting so idiotically (let's not notice how everyone who stays behind with Mr. Obviously Evil mysteriously disappears!) and guh. I didn't dislike it so much as just puzzle over it.


 Most of the other episodes mentioned in this thread as least favorites didn't strike me as _that_ bad. Aliens of London/World War Three get several minus points just for the embarrassing amount of fart jokes, but then again _Harriet Jones_ makes them totally worth it. The Long Game wasn't very interesting, I guess (I actually had to look it up on Wikipedia before I even remembered what it was about). The Idiot's Lantern didn't really captivate me either time I watched it. I actually didn't really mind the Daleks in Manhattan two-parter; it wasn't especially compelling and the Human Dalek looked kind of silly but I liked some of the ideas in it, and I'm still giggling at Andrew Garfield being in it. Planet of the Dead... is a pretty good candidate, actually; it had way too many plots running and none of them were very interesting.

So! Time for series six speculation. 



Spoiler



I still think River was the Astronaut - a _future_ River. Reason? Mainly, that I just rewatched The Impossible Astronaut and noticed River saying something like "There's a much worse day coming for me." She recognized herself somehow - perhaps by realizing the space suit was impervious to bullets when she was shooting at it, and thereby realizing it was her _own_ funky alien space suit. I know this sounds completely crazy because she was imprisoned in the past and everything but I'm _really_ convinced she killed him, Amy's daughter or not.



Finally, can I just say that I love Rory? If he weren't already married to Amy I would marry him. Through the fourth wall. (Shadey doesn't mind.)


----------



## Phantom

Another Ten fangirl! I'm not alone! OK so in response for the admin of doom.

Midnight 



Spoiler



I agree. It was one of the sole episodes in the RTD era that was actually scary. We've seen companions and random people be helpless, but never the Doctor. The Doctor being helpless is a horrible thought. And it's also where David's acting shines, you're right you can _see_ the Doctor screaming for help. It's _the eyes_. David Tennant has the eyes of a Time-Lord, serious. He has that "I look into your _soul_" look.


 
The Waters of Mars  I liked it too, the water... Just gah! Because it's just water? Right? RTD did such a good job setting up the characters in the beginning. (Gadget-gadget) I didn't like the little web-page like flashes, I mean I understand that that was how RTD was showing how the Doctor thinks. I think it would have been done better somehow using dialogue. But I understand. I think they did the best way they could think of.

The End of Time  Made me cry the first time. Ten was my first Doctor. My first episode of Doctor Who was Human Nature/Family of Blood. And I was in love with the show. I loved his quirks and everything about Ten, and knowing this was his death episode... I half didn't want to see it. But it was a good ending. "I don't wanna go" (waaay better than "Carrot juice, Carrot juice") and "WORST! RESCUE! EVER!) In that last story RTD gave us the best and worst side of the the Doctor... and the Ten with the gun thing sooooo cool. Eleven can't pull of the epic side switch Ten did. :3 



> Finally, can I just say that I love Rory? If he weren't already married to Amy I would marry him. Through the fourth wall. (Shadey doesn't mind.)


Ha, epic Roman/nurse. Everyone loves Rory... THEY NEED TO STOP KILLING HIM!


EDIT: The End of Time  The Master! How could I forget! Love the new hair, and he sacrifices himself for his old friend! So perfect! And the Time Lords coming back! I remember at the time I was watching my mother was in the room; I seriously jumped on top of the couch screaming, "HOLYSHITWHATTHESHITTIMELORDsOMGHOLYSHITTHEY'REBAAAAACK!"
No joke... My mom still looks at me strange whenever I watch Doctor Who. I so wasn't expecting Time Lords... I don't think anyone was. (I sooo called the Master though, everyone knew that by then because of trailers)


----------



## Frosty~

Uuuuuuuuuugghh what I haven't been here in forever hello o-o

Midnight is leaning towards the lower the spectrum of episodes I didn't enjoy. Not that I think it's bad or anything, but I think I was very distracted when I watched it and didn't take it in properly.
My least favourite episode is undoubtedly The Lazarus Experiment. The creature doesn't really make sense and I hate the way that Lazarus comes back to life.
For a "main plot" episode, it really didn't bring about any interesting development. It was just unsatisfying as a whole.

On the other hand, I must be one of the few people who liked the Evolution of the Daleks two parter. I loved the way they used the Daleks (I love it when they get to move around a lot. It sucks when they stay still most for nearly an entire episode, like Victory of the Daleks) and I thought it was very interesting how one very intelligent Dalek had an idea of how to survive, and was rejected and executed by his peers.
Although I the whole thing with the pig slaves was really weird and I wasn't fond of it.

I am very much enjoying Series 6 and I've thought all the episodes were great so far (Even Black Spot, which several people have told me they didn't like. I loved it o-o), and I can't wait for Torchwood D:


----------



## Lady Grimdour

HI ICE.

Anyway, never knew our dear Admin was a Whovian.

Midnight: Agreed. The Doctor being helpless I think hammers the fear in. We all know him as the brilliant walking Deus Ex Machina, and when he starts screaming for help (THOSE EYES), you are royally screwed. This may be the best of the episodes under his tenure, but it isn't HIS best. He's emulating the Moff's style of fear, like in Blink or Fear Her.

The End of Time: To clear this up, I really don't think the Master sacrificed himself to save his "old friend". He was mad at what Rassilon and co. did to him, plus they called him a disease. If you had lightning shooting from your palms and drums in your head ever since you could remember, and this guy tells you he put it there, THEN tells you you can't join him because the drum thing is a disease, you would want to fry the man. I like his speech, but the visit to friends? Not so much. I would've preferred flashbacks.


----------



## RosesBones

See, Midnight just doesn't hit me in the same way it hits you guys. But perhaps I am being unfair. Thus, I have decided to watch it again, taking into account the things that have been said.
And I don't see what everyone's problem is with the Daleks in Manhattan episodes. I mean, they aren't the greatest episodes ever, but they aren't terrible.
Although to be fair the only time I remember disliking an episode, ever, was when I watched Midnight, and I am hoping that my opinion will change on that. The Lazarus Experiment probably comes the closest to real dislike.


----------



## Butterfree

Phantom said:


> Ha, epic Roman/nurse. Everyone loves Rory... THEY NEED TO STOP KILLING HIM!


I for one am perfectly content with Rory dying all the time. :D (My favorite moment of series six so far is the bit where Canton has caught up with Rory and points the gun at him (help I think I like fictional guns) and Rory closes his eyes and _whimpers_. <3 HI THERE STEVEN MOFFAT I HEAR YOU WROTE THIS BIT JUST FOR ME.)

No, I'm totally not a sadist. What are you talking about?



Grimdour said:


> Anyway, never knew our dear Admin was a Whovian.


Blame Dannichu; she showed me most of series 1-4 while I was at her place in May. And elyvorg, who convinced me I needed to watch it.



> The End of Time: I like his speech, but the visit to friends? Not so much. I would've preferred flashbacks.


All the visits were a little lengthy, but it was nice to give those characters a little bit of a goodbye. The visit to Rose, in particular, I felt was very important and really quite poignant as a way to wrap things up for the Tenth Doctor and RTD's run on the show.


...aaaanyway, there's something I'm interested in. How exactly do you interpret regeneration? Because I'm thoroughly convinced that at least RTD thinks regeneration means the current consciousness of the Doctor actually dies and ceases to exist and another one comes in its place with the new body. (Both Nine and Ten's regenerations seem to heavily imply this to me. It could be that I just want to think of it that way because it's magnitudes more interesting (when you're me), but really.)


----------



## Blastoise Fortooate

In my head, regeneration turns you into a different person (physically, obviously, but also mentally), but you keep the memories and remember how you used to be. The consciousness of, say, Nine didn't _disappear_ so much as it did completely change, like how a caterpillar and a butterfly are technically the same animal but completely different. 

Like, you know how when you're growing up and then you meet someone that you used to know and they're completely different? I think regeneration is like that change happening in a really short amount of time.

Also, it could be that The Doctor has a whole host of separate, base personalities that are used in different ratios for each regeneration. I dunno. :/


----------



## Phantom

What Blastoise said in the first paragraph is the canon.


----------



## Butterfree

They obviously keep the memories while the personality changes, but what exactly does prior canon say with regards to the old personality's first-person experience of the event? Are there exact words on the subject, and in what context are they said? Because I'm honestly curious exactly how it's presented.

All I currently know is Ten described it as "Even if I change, it still feels like dying. Everything I am dies. Some new man goes sauntering away... and I'm dead", and Nine conspicuously avoided the subject of how it works while fluctuating wildly between sounding i) like he's dying, ii) like it's no big deal and iii) like he's trying to distract himself from the fact he's dying by joking about it, in a way that gave me the impression he was just trying not to worry Rose.


----------



## RosesBones

Hmm. As a little bit of speculation, what if the personalities of previous doctors are archived somewhere in the current one's mind? As in consciously, separate from the new personality, watching everything happen and being unable to do anything? That would be so creepy.
I'd like it put on record that this is not a theory of mine. It is not in any way canon, and I do not believe it would be if all this were fleshed out so that we knew exactly how it works.

To explain the avoidance of the subject in-story, the Doctor probably just dislikes talking about it. I mean, if you died a whole bunch of times and became a new person, but with the same memories, would you like to talk about it?

On a somewhat different subject,why would Clone-Boy (Handy, 10.5) be all angry about stuff like Nine was in the beginning? By the time the hand he grew from was severed the Doctor had chilled out some. Is it because the hand was severed in battle? Also, did the hand still have a link with the Doctor? Did it maybe get his memories from the redirection of the regeneration energy? It seems to me that Clone-Boy would be pretty much a carbon copy of the Doctor at the time the hand was severed, plus whatever he got from Donna.


----------



## Lady Grimdour

Nine was sort of at peace, because remember that he survived the Last Great Time War. Not only that, he ended it. He thinks of himself as a monster who killed his own people. Rose showed him he isn't. She helped him recover from that guilt. So when he had to die, he was glad he didn't die a monster.

In the Classic series, regeneration isn't shown as violently as today; it's really just a change of body. No mention of any dying personalities or anything. Basically, each body just changes like how a person changes over time. The process on TV was just a closeup of the face morphing (using the old camera ghost technique) into something new. The change of personality then was not mentioned at all, just shown. Ten's dialogue about dying is unprecedented, I think. Most regenerations mention it as a way of cheating death.

Speculation? The Doctor's in his mid-life crisis. Note that each regeneration gets younger and younger. Back then, he always wanted to be the old, masterful sage who knew everything. So his bodies reflected that. Then he actually grew old, and so he wanted to be young again, to be able to actually jump and not hurt his back. So his later bodies reflected it. During his running around, I think Ten tried to emulate his old sage-like wisdom, hence the smart not-needed glasses, and add it with his newfound energy. So he had an equilibrium going. And then he's going to die, to be replaced. His personality will be wiped, his memories given to some new Doctor with a new face.

That trait of his, trying to be old and young at the same time, made Eleven. Young body, but you can't ever say that he's hip and in with the times.


----------



## Dannichu

Butterfree said:


> Blame Dannichu; she showed me most of series 1-4 while I was at her place in May.


If you ever, ever need to get someone into Doctor Who (or Buffy or The West Wing or pretty much any British show made in the past 40 years), simply send them over to my house for a week or two. I am a fan-making _machine_.

I've always seen regeneration as a sort of end-of-an-era thing. Like, when you leave school and you don't _want_ to leave behind the security and good memories and the people you know and love, even if you know that, by moving on, you'll grow more as a person. I'm not the same person who I was before university, and going-to-uni Danni was different to starting-sixth-form-Danni. All technically the same person, but at different stages of life.

All the ads on BBC at the moment for Miracle Day are making me _very_ excited for it :D


----------



## Phantom

MIRACLE DAY! AND I DON'T HAVE THE DAMN CHANNEL!


----------



## RosesBones

Grimdour said:


> During his running around, I think Ten tried to emulate his old sage-like wisdom, hence the *smart not-needed glasses*, and add it with his newfound energy.


Brainy Specs! :D

Your speculation makes sense to me. Especially since Eleven acts like a super old dude part of the time and then acts like a nine-year-old.


----------



## Phantom

Saw Miracle Day... nerdgasm.


----------



## Frosty~

Miracle Day holy shit. I can just tell that this is going to be amazing.


----------



## Phantom

Ice the Frosty Cat said:


> Miracle Day holy shit. I can just tell that this is going to be amazing.


 
Agreed!


----------



## Lady Grimdour

For a second there I thought I'd missed it. Now I know how you Stateside people feel when we watch Doctor Who.


----------



## Phantom

Exactly. A lot of people over there were uber pissed that the times were different, except now it's fair. You guys get Doctor Who on time, we get Torchwood.

Haha 


Spoiler



"WHO ARE YOU PEOPLE?" [Gwen aims rocket launcher] "Torchwood."


----------



## RosesBones

Argh I need to get my parents to let me watch Torchwood. I'm missing out on the fun!


----------



## Frosty~

Of course, this being the internet, us Brits can watch it mere hours after it airs anyway.


----------



## Kinova

But we have to wait three months for the American shows! D: And being probably the only person in the world who watches Torchwood with her mum, I have to wait till Thursday. (Though that means I have new TW and the Harry Potter midnight showing within three hours of each other, which is EXCITING.)


----------



## Lady Grimdour

Just watched it and... wow. The budget didn't go to waste.

Plus Jack's little hidey-hole is quite cute. Shame they got extradited, which means swanky new base, so we lose the apartment with the soup. Oh, and the immortality thing I didn't get until they mentioned it.


----------



## Dannichu

Phantom said:


> Exactly. A lot of people over there were uber pissed that the times were different, except now it's fair. You guys get Doctor Who on time, we get Torchwood.


Oi, it's _so_ not fair. We bloody made it in the first place! We should get dibs! D:


----------



## Phantom

I disagree. Now it's fair. You guys have had Torchwood AND Doctor Who first, for how long now?

How long have our episodes been ruined because everyone else saw it first and is putting up spoilers that we can't avoid? Like on facebook? How long have Americans been scrambling to find the episode in it's full length online, without paying cause we
are cheap like that? Only to find it in it's entirety on youtube, then our hopes crushed cause it was already removed due to copyright violations? 

It was the BBC that cut funding for Torchwood, the US saved it, so be happy there's a show at all! There wouldn't be if it weren't for the US picking it up, so it's natural we save it, we see it first. You made Doctor Who, you can go ahead and get it first.


----------



## Butterfree

Everybody should get everything at the same time.


----------



## Phantom

Butterfree said:


> Everybody should get everything at the same time.


 
I like that idea too. It's stupid, they did it for a few episodes of Season 6, but then we got backed up two weeks.

I just don't like the pity party some people are pulling now that the tables have turned around so to speak.

EDIT: We Americans complained, but I remember specifically being told by some people that I should stop complaining. It's just kind of funny how tables turn.


----------



## RosesBones

*glares* I may have to wait _years_ to watch Torchwood. _Count your blessings._

And I agree with everyone getting everything at the same time. Of course, broadcasting corporations have this funny idea about time slots...


----------



## Frosty~

It's silly that in a world where everyone is connected, release dates are different (and that some thing don't get released in some parts of the world I'M LOOKING AT YOU ACE ATTORNEY INVESTIGATIONS 2). But eh, I guess it's never going to change.
Anyway, I live in England, but it's not hard to find a download just hours after it airs :3


----------



## PK

>mfw my isp is monitoring me and I can't pirate it

;-----;


----------



## Lady Grimdour

Don't need to pirate it, just watch online. No downloads.


----------



## Eclipse

Or you could check out livestreams who stream the episodes live. That's how I watched "A Good Man Goes to War". :D


----------



## Frosty~

The problems I've found with watching things online are that they're extremely unreliable and usually have terrible quality (especially in full-screen, which is pretty important when your monitor is a TV :P).
Plus it's nice always being able to rewatch it whenever I want without having to worry about finding it again.


----------



## Lady Grimdour

Just watch it right now.


----------



## Dannichu

Well, that was fun. 



Spoiler: Miracle Day



Seemed more like a set-up episode than anything, but I'm really, really excited to see how they answer some of the questions, like how/if people recover from should-be-fatal incidents, and contagous viruses and what the deal is with paedophile-man. And it was so lovely to see Jack, Rhys and Gewn all back together, I'd missed their faces from my TV (Eve Myle's _adorable_ gappy one most of all <3) and I don't usually like babies, but Anwen was adorable and the new character seem fairly cool and generally I AM EXCITE.

And OH MY GOD SEVERN BRIDGE-RELATED HUMOUR is my favourite kind XDDD The only thing that could possibly have made that better would've been Gavin and Smithy being all shouty by the barrier, but that would have probably ruined the mood.



But the best bit was that I got my whole family to watch it with me! I love it when that happens :)


----------



## Lady Grimdour

I was doing all the shouty bits behind the TV. DO NOT DIS OUR BRIDGE, BUTT.

And JACK'S HIDEY-HOLE IS BACK!


----------



## Phantom

Saw the second episode of Torchwood: Miracle Day yesterday.  It was kind of notgood. It moved the plot, but not far. There were good bits, but it felt like it was more half an episode than an entire episode. I'm not sure where they were going with it. Gwen had a "cyanide poisoning" moment like Ten in "The Unicorn and the Wasp" which was funny, and another awesome quote,  to Gwen, "I'm not worried, if you're the best England has to offer." Gwen shrugs, smiles, "I'm Welsh." *punch*. But otherwise it leaves some to be desired and I hope the next one resolves a bit more, which in the teaser it seemed to. This episode seemd more like a "let's slow down and built story and cannon" episode. Maybe I didn't like that it slowed down? Idk.

But there's this funny as hell character in the plane scene... you'll see him. :P


----------



## Phantom

Double Post> I know! BUT TORCHWOOD TONIGHT! >:D


----------



## Lady Grimdour

> "If you're the best England has to offer then God help you." "I'm Welsh."


Sorry, it was my signature for a while. But yeah. Awesome.

CREEPYBROKENNECKGIRL BAH GAWD. I feel that this was a Gwen-centric episode since she was the star. It was a very good second episode, since it built the characters and the severity of the situation. Usually, Jack can just burp the poison out. If we see an established immortal cough and wheeze to death, that's an alarm bell for me.

Oh, and the formula for the antidote is real, just not the measurements.


----------



## Dannichu

I learned on Thursday that there are few things more fun than watching Torchwood with a family of Welsh people. Thye laugh at all the Welsh jokes! XD



Spoiler: the second ep



Yes, yeeessssss broken-neck-lady was _terrifying_ o.O 
My favourite thing about the episode was that it seemed to be a Doctor Who/24/MacGyver crossovery soup. And very, very funny in places XD


----------



## Phantom

Third episode... Terrible. I'm starting to not like this. I mean there are old school Torchwood stuff that makes me go SQUEE but not like CoE.


----------



## Zero Moment

So what happened in the series finale of Torchwood that made everyone but Jack and Gwen die?


----------



## Phantom

^Huh

 Of Torchwood three only Ianto, Gwen and Jack were alive...

EDIT: Also new epic Torchwood quote that made happy Ashley.  They are talking about the massive birth rates since there are no more still borns and all pregnancies are working, some guy says that contraception is wrong, it's God's will. Response, “Yeah, I was a Catholic too once. I got better.”


----------



## Dannichu

Spoiler



Oh, cool. I was wondering last episode what would happen if one were to have an abortion post Miracle-Day and it's nice that they're addressing that. 

And oh, you _never_ stop being Catholic. It's like what Dara O Briain says; "I’m staunchly atheist, I simply don’t believe in God. But I’m still Catholic, of course. Catholicism has a much broader reach than just the religion. I’m technically Catholic, it’s the box you have to tick on the census form: ‘Don’t believe in God, but I do still hate Rangers.’"


----------



## Lady Grimdour

True that. You can burn 5000 churches but still tick the Catholic box. You're born Catholic, literally, even if you dismiss every single thing in the bible.

ANYWAY. Torchwood started with a full crew: Tosh, Owen, Ianto, Gwen and Jack. Can't remember how Tosh died, Owen died then was revived and became what can be classed as a zombie before being molten down by nuclear radiation, Ianto suffered the same fate with the 456.

Oh, and the Welsh are VERY patriotic, especially against England, Danni.


----------



## opaltiger

Phantom: do you really think it's getting worse? o.o I thought the third episode was the best so far (not that that's saying terribly much). It's like, Jane Espenson writes an episode and suddenly everyone has a personality again. Also suddenly there is gay sex.


----------



## Kinova

I'm not sure everyone's patriotic exactly but there's a definate air of 'I can poke fun at Wales, but if you're from the other side of that bridge_ you sure as hell can't_.' :B

Hahaa, twisty-head woman used to be in Neighbours (yes, I know, shhh); she was quite annoying and Neighbours is too nice a show to give her a proper comeuppance, so Gwen punching her in the face was doubly satisfying. :D Thought it was an alright episode really - wasn't quite sure that whatever else was mixed in with plane cleaning fluid wouldn't have killed Jack, but it had a bit more TW humour! Also I cannot stop imagining a dinosaur sneaking up to dispose of corrupt-boss-man, darn it Jurassic Park.

Have you guys seen the Doctor Who trailer for the rest of the series? I think I saw Rory punching Hitler in the face. <3


----------



## Dannichu

Hee yes, we were making Jurassic Park jokes, as well. That's something that's nice, too; I'm used to recognising every other actor on Torchwood and Doctor Who, that I was a bit worried that this Americanised series of TW would have a bunch of people I'd never seen before in, but I've been pleasantly surprised so far :D

I've heard that people in North Wales are incredibly patriotic, but the Southerners less so? I've never met a Welsh person who wasn't lovely, though, and I've met a few Scots who've hated English people on sight, so they seem far less militant by comparison.


----------



## opaltiger

OH I knew I recognised corrupt boss guy! Haha that is great.


----------



## Murkrow

I recognise him more than 3rd Rock from the Sun, though that's probably because I haven't watched Jurassic Park at least all the way through for years.

I find Torchwood usually has fewer actors I recognise anyway in comparison to Doctor Who.




Dannichu said:


> I've heard that people in North Wales are incredibly patriotic, but the Southerners less so?


Northerners don't like how the south gets so much attention, and quite a few think that the Southerners may as well be English.


----------



## Lady Grimdour

The stereotype is that Northerners are dumb inbred hicks that shag sheep. According to Cardiff and the surrounding area.


----------



## Elliekat

HELLO ALL my friend Heather made me watch an episode with her, because I had been meaning to watch Doctor Who for ages, and I loved it and am now catching up on a somewhat shady-looking website I found on Google. I'm just finishing up with the 9th Doctor. Everyone says 10 is better than 9 xD But I love 9 so I don't know xD

ANYWAY now I can finally reblog all the stuff that crops up on my Tumblr, and also join this club! :D


----------



## Dannichu

I dunno whether or not 10 is _better_ than 9. He's more conventionally attractive (ymmv), and while he gets the best episodes, he also gets some really poor ones, too. And he's around for longer, which helps the love, too.

But, regardless, you've got a _lot_ to look forward to :D


----------



## opaltiger

Not everyone. >:( Nine is the best Doctor. And he gets the two best episodes, too.


----------



## Dannichu

I dunno if I'd count The Doctor Dances as the best (though that two-parter is definitely one of my faves), but aside from Boom Town, which isn't even all bad, there isn't a dull note in S1. 

(My love of Harriet Jones supersedes my hatred of the Slitheen, so I still like Aliens of London)


----------



## Frosty~

Bad Wolf/Parting of the ways is my favourite season finale ftr.
I really don't think I can decide on a favourite Doctor though. They're all wonderful.
It's just a shame that we'll likely never get Eccleston back for a multi-Doctor episode. Hrrmmm :C


----------



## Mhaladie

I have just watched a good amount of new-Doctor-Who in the last month or so! (Still have to see the last few episodes of S5, and I missed some of the first half of S6 when it was on TV... although I've been pretty well spoiled for it.) I have found it to be pretty excellent. Count it among the many wonderful things Dannichu has conned me into watching.

And honestly... I don't think I could pick a favorite Doctor either. They've all been really fantastic. Maybe, maybe I would pick Nine as my favorite (only by a little bit)... but a lot of my favorite episodes are ones with Ten, and I like Ten and Eleven's relationships with some of their companions better than I like Nine and Rose, even though they were perfectly lovely. It's really difficult for me to pick favorites of anything in this show, since in some ways things are so different, but similar at the same time, and most everything is good! I like everything. (I am infamous for even liking the terrible episodes. It could be that my taste levels are just questionable.) Is that ok?


----------



## Dannichu

Mhaladie said:


> I have just watched a good amount of new-Doctor-Who in the last month or so! I have found it to be pretty excellent. Count it among the many wonderful things Dannichu has conned me into watching.


:DDDD

Although, I have to say, I really loved Rose and Nine. More than Rose and Ten, I think. Ten and Donna are absolutely my favourite Tardis Team, though (except, of course, Sarah Jane and anyone/thing). And Eleven, Rory, River and Amy are fantastic; I'm reeeeeally looking forward to more of them! :D

I watched the third episode of MD today!  It felt a bit more like a set-up episode for all the Physcom stuff later than an episode where *stuff* happened, but I enjoyed the American/English translatory bits, they were great. And my love for Esther grows. I want to ship her with Gwen, but I absolutely adore Gwen and Rhys, so I can't ): 

Although Vera has gone from being one of my favourite characters to... less so in this episode. I dunno, there's something off about her... I hope she'll turn out to be evil or something. And I want Red Lady to get more personality, she could be cool. 

And I really liked the Jack/Oswald parallell they're setting up, with Jack's killing of his grandson and Oswald killing that girl. Jack's charactersiation in this episode, though; perhaps the less said about it the better.

Oh! And a big cheer for "bigger on the inside" (I was beginning to wonder if they'd acknowledge that this was set in the Whoniverse at all), and a squee for the return of the super-cool contact lenses <2

Also, I found this - apparently, Jane Espenson, in all her brilliance, is doing a not-quite DVD commentary on Miracle Day and it's a really interesting read. AfterEllen is also doing a series of amusing recaps of the episodes - this is the most recent one and it's great.


----------



## Lady Grimdour

Gotta love the little powerplay Jack and Rex have. Not to mention changing in the car.

And another thing I love about the show is that it doesn't focus on the fact that nobody can die and that's it, it explores the repercussions on society. The segregation, the cults, the corporates, it's a wonderful take on it.


----------



## Dannichu

Grimdour said:


> And another thing I love about the show is that it doesn't focus on the fact that nobody can die and that's it, it explores the repercussions on society. The segregation, the cults, the corporates, it's a wonderful take on it.





Spoiler



YES, THIS. The next episode looks _really_ interesting. And all the stuff with the hospitals and the discussion about the unviable foetuses not spontaneously aborting and the ethics of contraceptives in the water and ooohhh it's fantastic, I hope they continue with the issues because, even though I'm enjoying the characters and things, I like the societal implications they're talking about :D


----------



## Phantom

Ok, I don't think it's getting worse.

It's staying the same. 

I just can't see to get into it as I could with CoE or the regular show. Like you said the idea behind all these issues is amazing and quite something to think about. But I feel as though the Torchwood-y feel is gone. But I still love it. I mean I have a feeling it's going to be big. 

I also am having character name issues. Seriously in my head I refer to them as "Black guy with hole in chest", "Tall skinny doctor lady", "Freaky rapist guy", "blond girl", "not-gay tie boy", and even "Neck lady". I am serious. I can never remember any of their names when I'm sure Freaky Rapist Guy's name has been said like fifty times an episode.

It was the pharmaceutical companies. They are trying to take over the world. 

Waiting for tonights new episode.


----------



## Lady Grimdour

A quick guide:

Rex has the pole injury, Esther's the blonde one, Tie boy and Lyn the Neck Lady don't matter, and the rapist is Oswald Danes.

You have a point in it not having the same feel, possibly because it's American and not British sci-fi. We Brits like our science fiction big and nonsensical, as evidenced by the recent Doctor Who finales, and Americans like theirs wrapped in conspiracy tape and mystery, like the X Files and recently, Fringe.

I expect aliens everywhere right at the end with RTD at the helm, but for now, it's gonna be Alien CSI for a bit.


----------



## Dannichu

And sometimes we like our sci-fi being about four guys (well; one guy, a dead guy, an android and a massively mutated cat) being stuck on a mining ship out in the middle of space. 
Or a guy, a girl, some aliens and another android hitchhiking through space.

(But Blake's 7, Primeval and probably others I'm forgetting definitely fit with what you're saying. Life on Mars/Ashes to Ashes fit more into the American bit, but they're definitely not just sci-fi, so they shouldn't count :p)


----------



## RosesBones

Was that a Hitchhiker's Guide reference I saw just there?


----------



## Murkrow

Grimdour said:


> We Brits like our science fiction nonsensical.


I for one don't D:


----------



## Phantom

So the latest Torchwood last night.

 RTD IS FUCKING BACK!

Serious that was, amazing. I mean I totally don't want to ruin it, but that's what spoiler tags are for. So if you're reading this and haven't seen it yet, STOP.


Ok so we learn why Phicorp or whoever is doing this has planned for the people who should have died. They introduced categories, 3 being normal, 2 being severely injured but stable, and 1 being well, dead. And what they do with the dead ones! THEY BURN THEM ALIVE! It's insane, but not as insane as the fucking doctor who SHOT Vera and locked her in the room, THEN INCINERATED her with Rex trying to get in to save her, it's insane. And Oswald is one messed up s.o.b.. 

Is it me or is John Barrowman not looking too good?? I don't know if it's his age showing or something else. Though he looks like he's lost a lot of weight. I also am starting to feel like Jack is becoming a background character.They just are focusing more on other characters, which is understandable, but this is a one shot series from what I understand. And I get that they have only ten episodes to get us to understand the new characters, but there are the die-hard fans who've followed the show since the first season and I think that, at least from my point of view, it's lacking for the die-hards.

 I feel there is more to be seen for Jack/Gwen/Rhys and they simply aren't doing it. I mean I know they're in a crisis, but I don't know I just feel something is missing there. And I can't put my finger on it.


----------



## Dannichu

Aaaaaaaahhhhh 



Spoiler: Episode 5



Oh my giddy goodness, that last episode was intense. The whole classifying of people was super-dark and then it just sort of spiralled out from there and _dear god that ending_. I thought they'd just about done their worst already with the lady in the car-crusher, but noooooo. And, dammit, I really quite liked Vera ):

Gwen continues to be awesome, which is one of the main reasons I'm liking this series. Oh god, the bit where she's impersonating an American accent was absolutely fantastic XD I don't like Rex much (I really hope he gets called out on, well, _everything_, but especially his constant being mean to Esther), but Esther is adorable, and Gwen's mum seems pretty awesome. And P.C. Andy's back, huzzah!

I hope they rescue Gwen's dad, though. I don't want to see people get burned up again ):

And I'm still really, really wondering where they're going with all this.


----------



## Phantom

Was the the only one screaming "FU OSWALD!"

Just watched the newest episode.

 O_o


No really. It was boring, boring, boring, with a few huh? and OHIGETITZ, then HOLYSHITTHEFUCK.

Gwen got a few moments of AWESOME, including being epic on a motorcycle and blowing up one of the camps with C4. Also THEY TOOK HER MOM, RHYS AND HER DAUGHTER! I don't even know who "they" is. Also Jack got to be Jack for a bit, which was great. Still, overall response...

O_o


----------



## Dannichu

Spoiler



Yeah, I thought the newest episode wasn't as good - while I hate Oswald with a passion, he's a very interesting character (and his actor is fantastic), and the episode felt a little lacking because he wasn't in it, and neither was Jilly and obviously Vera wasn't either, and we got all these rubbish people I don't care about like the Phicorp Man and, oh god go away San Pedro Camp Man. I think this was the first episode so far to fail the Bechdel Test, too, which was a shame. And I kept wanting Esther to be awesome and save the day, but we mostly got her crying a lot while Rex keeps being Manly Man. Also, what _is_ it with American men and Jack's coat?

But, if I may be very shallow for a moment, I've always thought Eve Myles was incredibly pretty, and blowing stuff up on a motorbike doesn't usually do it for me, but _wow_.


----------



## Phantom

> Spoiler
> 
> 
> 
> Also, what _is_ it with American men and Jack's coat?


No one can resist the coat.


----------



## Dannichu

Hee, I rewatched Children of Earth with some friends the other day, and there's the bit where Ianto buys them all clothes when they're on the run, and gets Jack a new WWII coat from an army surplus shop and we all had to give the coat a big cheer. So I guess you're right :p


----------



## Phantom

I just noticed that when my cell phone company texts me the number they use is 456.


----------



## Blastoise Fortooate

*clears away Torchwood filling the air*

if you have any respect for me as a human being you will watch this short video featuring Matt Smith and Karen Gillan singing the theme song and dancing fantastically

Anyone love that charity episode were the TARDIS gets teleported inside the TARDIS?


----------



## opaltiger

Latest Torchwood episode (7):



Spoiler



Oh, _whatever._ Gwen was completely out of character, she'd never just kidnap Jack like that.


----------



## Murkrow

opaltiger said:


> Latest Torchwood episode (7):
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler
> 
> 
> 
> Oh, _whatever._ Gwen was completely out of character, she'd never just kidnap Jack like that.


I've only seen the "next time" for episode 7 and from that short clip alone I was thinking how ridiculously out of character it seemed.


----------



## Dannichu

Blastoise Fortooate said:


> *clears away Torchwood filling the air*
> 
> if you have any respect for me as a human being you will watch this short video featuring Matt Smith and Karen Gillan singing the theme song and dancing fantastically
> 
> Anyone love that charity episode were the TARDIS gets teleported inside the TARDIS?


Eeeee I love Matt and Karen and Arthur _so much_ I want to be their friends. Out of season I know, but this is my favourite.

And I LOVE the Time/Space CiN special-thingy. Amy would give Amy her driving license <3 Although Time Crash is probably my favourite special (it's 5 minutes of fanboy-ing, but is too sweet for words), and The Curse of Fatal Death is amazing and not enough people have seen it. It has Rowan Atkinson, Jim Broadbent, Hugh Grant, Richard E Grant, Julia Swahlia and Joanna Lumley in. And is also _hilarious_. The sofa of reasonable comfort!

Re: Torchwood My sister and I guessed Angelo might have something to do with the angels (and blessing and other religious terminology that's being thrown around), and while that twist was cool, it didn't really make up for all the flashbacks feeling out of place. They were sweet, though. And whoo at Esther helping to save the day again! And, really, I'd have forgiven the episode any flaws at all just for Jack's line "You're Welsh, you wouldn't notice if words have their vowels missing.". Jokes about the Welsh make me so happy inside <3 

Also! I don't know how I forgot to squee over this, but TRICKSTER MENTION! I can't tell you how much I love that the Trickster's Crew appear in Doctor Who (the Time Beetle thing on Donna's back) and Torchwood, but the Trickster himself only appears in SJA. And is creepy as all hell and all the best episodes (Whatever Happened to Sarah Jane, The Wedding of Sarah Jane Smith, The Temptation of Sarah Jane) feature him.


----------



## Murkrow

Dannichu said:


> The Curse of Fatal Death is amazing and not enough people have seen it. It has Rowan Atkinson, Jim Broadbent, Hugh Grant, Richard E Grant, Julia Swahlia and Joanna Lumley in. And is also _hilarious_. The sofa of reasonable comfort!


Even though it's supposed to be ridiculous, there's something about this that has the classic Doctor Who feel to it that the new ones lack. Not entirely sure what it is though.


----------



## Phantom

Last episode

Left me with this expression O_o for twenty three minutes after.

Twice RTD?

And Gwen and Jack, really? Really? Then Esther and Rex being Gandolfs. I just, it's getting bad again for me. It got really good the last episode, then really bad this one. If they keep doing this I will find RTD and personally sit over his shoulder and everytime he writes something that doesn't work for the characters I will scream "WRONG" and squirt him with a water bottle.


----------



## RosesBones

Aw, I love The Curse of Fatal Death! 'Tis filled with hilarity.


----------



## Phantom

Guys 6.2 is almost here!!! So excited! "Let's Kill Hitler"!

From what I've seen everyone is back... and the Doctor has a new coat... similar to Jack's...


Check out the coat... and is that a Pyramid???!!

I just noticed the giant pyramid. Phantom gains one point!


----------



## Lady Grimdour

No one can resist overcoats.


----------



## Dannichu

Ahahahaha, I totally thought Amy's leg in that picture was the Doctor's. Took me a moment to work out what was going on. 

And if the previews they keep showing on the beeb are anything to go by, there _will_ be pyramids (sometimes with the american flag on?) and DINOSAURS and 



Spoiler: shouldn't count because if you watch the BBC at all, you'll have seen this a hundred times but I don't want anybody shouting at me



EYEPATCH RIVER! What do you kids make ot THAT?


----------



## Frosty~

^ Hahaha, me too.
When is it starting by the way?

Also regarding the latest Torchwood, whilst I thought the flashback told a good story, I think it took up too much of the episode and came out of nowhere, especialy for someone who is supposedly a villain. And there was just a biit too much M/M fanservice. Not that I have a problem with it being there, but it would be nice for a bit of F/F to balance it out, but that's just my inner pervert talking so eh.
Also Rex and Esther saving the day was pretty badass.


----------



## RosesBones

I am suddenly extremely happy. That picture is... wow.


----------



## opaltiger

Phantom: you realise only the first and last episodes are written by RTD, right?


----------



## Dannichu

But the inconsistent characterisation makes me think that RTD's (for lack of a better word) meddling with the episodes the other writers have done to make them say what he wants. So there's JaneEspenson!Gwen and RTD!Gwen and Otherwriters!Gwen and they're all slightly (sometimes wildly) different characters.



Ice the Frosty Cat said:


> ^ Hahaha, me too.
> When is it starting by the way?
> 
> Also regarding the latest Torchwood, whilst I thought the flashback told a good story, I think it took up too much of the episode and came out of nowhere, especialy for someone who is supposedly a villain. And there was just a biit too much M/M fanservice. Not that I have a problem with it being there, but it would be nice for a bit of F/F to balance it out, but that's just my inner pervert talking so eh.
> Also Rex and Esther saving the day was pretty badass.


Starting this Saturday! I'm so, so excited, except then I'm going away with my family for two weeks, but I'll be living in a tent in France, so it's not like there'll be spoilers all over the place. 

I sort of get you - I forget, has it actually been made clear that Jack's omnisexual? I only remember him getting it on with guys this series so far. And in CoE, actually. I sort of miss all of Torchwood being bi (according to RTD, all the original 5 were, though aside from alien possession, we don't see Gwen acting on it). I don't think Esther's been given a sexuality to speak of so far, so you could hold out hope?


----------



## Phantom

opal: yeah I know, but I feel sort of like how Dannichu said, like RTD has tossed a few cards in there when the other writiers were doing their thing.



> Spoiler
> 
> 
> 
> I don't think Esther's been given a sexuality to speak of so far, so you could hold out hope?


I think Esther may have a thing for Rex. At least that's what I've been getting from how she looks/talks to him. And in Who it was told about Jack, by the Doctor.


----------



## RosesBones

Jack is an extremely flexible dance partner.


----------



## Phantom

I am so EXCITED for this weekend! It's gonna be the best EVER! New Torchwood and NEW WHO!


----------



## Kinova

New Who! New Who! I've remained calm thus far but now we've hit the 24 hour countdown all hope's gone out the window. :B I am way overexcited for robot jellyfish! And also the new coat, even if it's only for Let's Kill Hitler. AND DINOSAURS I am pretty sure I saw some on the BBC trailer.

Re: Eyepatch River: maybe it's some kind of disguise? Personally I want to know if it's some kind of silly space-age accessory or whether Madam Whats-her-face has some kind of... parasite teabag under there, I don't know.

Aaaand Torchwood! Thought this week was a bit weird in Gwen going all wonky, the apparently bloodlust-ridden Italians (??), the fact that we've moved on about 12 present-day hours in the last two episodes... but I liked it for its Whoishness! The companion (cough), the you'll-die-I-won't problem, the ALIEN finally (although I admit I spent half of that conversation thinking 'please put the lid of the box back on while you tell Angelo all about how they enjoy sucking on the brains of a host'). And obviously the actual reference to the Doctor, and the Trickster and that - this series of Torchwood has kind of been drifting away from its Whoey roots so that was cool.


----------



## Phantom

Kinova said:


> Re: Eyepatch River: maybe it's some kind of disguise? Personally I want to know if it's some kind of silly space-age accessory or whether Madam Whats-her-face has some kind of... parasite teabag under there, I don't know.


 I think that eyepatch lady is River.... or it's some sort of group thing and River is in it... or it's a group of robots that look like that and they CONVERTED River, hence why she said last time or whatever.


----------



## Frosty~

Phantom said:


> I am so EXCITED for this weekend! It's gonna be the best EVER! New Torchwood and NEW WHO!


Not to mention that for us Brit's, they essentially come out on the same day.
(Since the torrents aren't really out until we're asleep~). That's a first :D


----------



## Dannichu

Well then. 



Spoiler: Killing Hitler



I enjoy that, after all the hype, they in fact locked Hitler in a cupboard for a few hours. That'll learn him. 

I'm still tring to work out River's timeline in my head, but doing so makes my brain hurt. If anybody finds a graphic or wants to type it all out to help me, go ahead, but from this week's episode, I don't see how it could fit in with what we know for her to be Eyepatch Lady. I actually quite like her being the teenage girl; her behaviour makes a lot more sense now. And one mystery from the previous series solved in the form of knowing who the girl in New York is.

And yaaaaaay for Rose, Donna and Martha appearances! One of my only gripes about the Moffat-era is how self-contained it is, so it's wonderful to have a reference to the (admittedly very recent) past. And the whole guilt thing was pure Ten. And I do love seeing Matt Smith comically dying. And newly-regenerated River doing her newly-regenerated Eleven impression. And I LOL'd a little at robot-as-Amy doing her shoop-de-woop thing. And the flashbacks to the kids were wonderful, poor little Rory. And teenage Rory. And my sister made us pause on the bit just as teenage Mels got sent out of the headteacher's office so we could admire Karen Gillian in her schoolgirl outfit.



And Jim from Ashes to Ashes will be in the next episode! :D Hope he's not as creepy as he is in A2A, because by the look of those monsters, it'll be plenty scary enough as it is o.o

Unrelated to the newest Who/Torchwood, but in case anbody was wondering if the Sarah Jane Smith Big Finish Audiobooks were good, I can confirm (from listening to two of them today) they are. It's quite fun, after listening to all of the Sarah Jane Adventures Audiobooks (the Sarah Jane Smith ones were made before SJA was a thing), to hear about Sarah Jane's car getting blown up, people getting shot in the head, and people (including Elisabeth Sladen) swearing. Great fun :D


----------



## Kinova

Spoiler



'You're gay!' 'I'm _not_!' 'But you've never been interested in any girl, the whole time I've known you, you - oh.' Haha, poor old Rory. Twitterpated from day one. :p

I don't know, it was kind of a weird episode; there was an awful lot going on and they didn't really stop to examine any of it properly. I was excited for a Hitler centric, want-to-change-the-past-but-shouldn't story (though I did like that 'You saved my life!' 'Really... _really_ didn't mean to.' bit) and it didn't really happen. The robot jellyfish were funny (why would you fill your robot clone with homocidal jellies, though) but the whole War Criminal Removal Brigade sort of got shunted out in favour of the River storyline, and all in fifty minutes ahhhh.

On the other hand, there were lots of good one liners ('Shut up, Hitler') and it sorted out the River-regeneration stuff? It was clever how the Doctor gave her the 'spoilers' line, while she was the one who gave it to him back with Tennant. Rory and Amy continue to have the weirdest relationship with their child... ever (see: met her as an adult before she was concieved, no knowledge of pregnancy, baby kidnapped, unknowingly grew up with their brainwashed daughter, parenting is tricky). References to Martha&Co, the old companions, were really cool - though the current ones didn't see them, so they still don't know they exist!



MIXED FEELINGS about the whole thing, though it doesn't help that my sister and dad are not remotely impressed with the new series (highlights of their commentary being 'this is TOO CONFUSING' and 'that was rubbish'), which is distracting. :c

Being a good little Whovian I was poking around on the BBC site after the episode aired, and was reading 'The Fourth Dimension' on the episode page - it's a little factoid section about the episode - and noticed that thoughout there were randomly italicised words. String them together and they make a little poem, presumably to do with next week's episode (kind of cool!):


When reason slept
When mothers wept
When soldiers crept
the monsters came.


----------



## Lady Grimdour

Found something interesting.

As soon as Mels gets out of the Headmaster's office as a teenager, there is a poster to the right about bullying. "Break the Silence."


----------



## Phantom

I noticed that too. So the Silence are a cult and not a race? That brings things into a new light, certainly. And teenage River is funny as hell. Loved the Hitler bits too, that's one way to win the war... shove Hitler in a broom closet.

And the cat people return!

And I understand the "last time" thing with River... since she gave up her regenerations. So wait is she half Time Lady or is she a full Time Lady... does she have one heart or two? And why couldn't the Doctor figure this out before... he knew the Master right away... sort of... it's kind of confusing.


----------



## Murkrow

Kinova said:


> though it doesn't help that my sister and dad are not remotely impressed with the new series (highlights of their commentary being 'this is TOO CONFUSING' and 'that was rubbish'), which is distracting. :c


My dad and aunt say this too, insisting that RTD was a much better writer.



And I didn't see the poster next to the headmaster's office, as I was thinking COMIC SANS too loudly to notice. (I know it's realistic since schools to use it a lot, I just have to think "THAT FONT'S NAME IS ____" whenever I recognise one)


----------



## Phantom

I don't know if this is spoiler worthy, better safe than sorry I guess. 


Opinions on the coat?


----------



## Lady Grimdour

@Phantom: One heart. She was described as Human+, so just bits of Time Lord mixed in due to Amy carrying her while in the TARDIS.

Also, I was mixed on the coat; on one hand, it's awesome. But another overcoat? They're cool and all, but not when everyone wears them.


----------



## Dannichu

It's true, with the coat - Sherlock, the Tenth Doctor, Jack, Mitchell from Being Human - BBC, I adore you, but your (overwhelmingly white and male) leads _can_ wear other stuff.


----------



## Phantom

I am sad I didn't get to see Torchwood last night. But Doctor Who is tonight!


----------



## Light

So I've started watching Doctor Who and have finished the first season. Anyone able to explain why the Doctor can't go back in time to have more time to do something, such as go back in time to see the queen of France before she dies in that episode with the clock robots? I know it mentioned something about being stuck in a timeline once the Tardis lands, but without further explanation this is quite bothersome.


----------



## Frosty~

Light Yagami said:


> So I've started watching Doctor Who and have finished the first season. Anyone able to explain why the Doctor can't go back in time to have more time to do something, such as go back in time to see the queen of France before she dies in that episode with the clock robots? I know it mentioned something about being stuck in a timeline once the Tardis lands, but without further explanation this is quite bothersome.


Established events. Once he's met with people in a timeline, he becomes part of that timeline, and going to a point before that would change the timeline.

Or wibbly wobbly timey wimey ball. Whichever you prefer.


----------



## Blastoise Fortooate

I was not all that overly impressed with the most recent episode! The idea was interesting and I liked the acting but we didn't find out who/what the dolls and the kid where until like ten minuted before the end, which kind of threw off the pacing for me. :/ That's probably not good in an hour-long program, I think.

Although the dolls creeped me out to no end. Also, 'We've died! Again!' :D The floor eating the landlord was a really good effect, my favorite in the episode.


----------



## Light

Ice the Frosty Cat said:


> Established events. Once he's met with people in a timeline, he becomes part of that timeline, and going to a point before that would change the timeline.
> 
> Or wibbly wobbly timey wimey ball. Whichever you prefer.


But wouldn't changing the timeline be favorable?


----------



## Blastoise Fortooate

He _can't. _It's physically impossible in the same way that walking on the ceiling is.


----------



## Light

Ok... I guess I'll accept that. But how does saving the world constitute allowing time travel again? We've seen that he can visit the same place at the same time twice in the episode where Rose tries to save her dad from dying.

But then, I guess that episode contains some of the answers. When the doctor and Rose's past self see their future self, the past selves vanish and it opens some kind of rift in time and space. But without a doubt, the doctor's actions in the past affect the future he has already visited, so there is still an inconsistency if we say it is physically imposible for the doctor to do something that would affect his past self who happens to be in the future.


----------



## opaltiger

Not really important, but Madame du Pompadour was the king's mistress, not his queen.


----------



## Light

-_-

Thanks for that, opal.

Maybe the answer is, like Catholic theology, beyond mortal comprehension. :|
Or maybe I just don't listen very well.


----------



## Zero Moment

I liked the new Torchwood and Doctor Who.

Does anyone have any idea what the fuck the chasm thing is, or is that completely new?


----------



## RosesBones

I liked the latest episode, mainly because those dolls were deliciously creepy. My favorite part of the whole episode was the bit where Rory says "We've died! Again!"

In regards to the Doctor not going back in time to a place he's been already to give him more time, it isn't a physical impossibility so much as a thing that would just be really, really bad. It's like how there are fixed points in time that cannot be altered. It's not that it is impossible to alter them, it would just, like, rip a hole in the universe or something.


----------



## Lady Grimdour

Okay, here's how I think time works: it's a ball of string.

A big ball of probably pear-shaped string and the TARDIS jumps around the string, creating its own trail.

Every event is a length of string. Time-travellers cut that string and tie a new replacement string to continue that timeline. Once they leave the timeline, the new string is tied back to whatever event it causes and the timeline continues, new strings of events being created and tied to it. For example:

(normal timeline)
Hitler in office chair----------Hitler in office chair, still.

(Doctor's timeline)
Hitler in office chair-----Doctor interferes-------Hitler in cupboard
-----Hitler in office chair, still

The string that contained Hitler still being in the office chair is now forgotten, null and void. If he were supposed to send out papers that day, that event will be gone too because the new timestring says he's in the cupboard.

Which leads us to established events. Established events are lengths of string that have too many strings attached to it. If it were to be cut off (basically tampered with), so many events would vanish and there will literally be a hole in time.

Also, here's how the TARDIS travels in the analogy: it jumps around the skin of the time ball, and inside the ball is space. The universe. Basically, the TARDIS jumps to a timestring (2011), enters normal space, then travels to Utah.

That's also how they managed to get to that parallel universe: the TARDIS got too far away from its usual ball of time, crashed to some random time, and redirected itself to London.


----------



## Murkrow

The best way I can imagine time works in Doctor who is the travelling animation from the first episode http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hRsfKK34SFY

I mean if you imagine every point in the smokey stuff to be an event then that stuff's trippy.


----------



## Phantom

SERIES FINALE TONIGHT FOR TORCHWOOD! 


*and I can't see it damn it.


----------



## RosesBones

It's like a big ball of... wibbly-wobbly... timey-wimey... stuff.

The ball of strings explanation makes sense to me!


----------



## Phantom

It's actually a great way of thinking it. Congrats. You just used a ball of string to explain reality, what are you going to do next?


----------



## Murkrow

Tvtropes has been using the string analogy for a while :P


----------



## Frosty~

Just watched the Torchwood finale.
And HOLY CRAP.
Asspull aside, that was incredibly awesome
ESTER WHYYYYYY
And now Rex is immortal too? Cool. I kind of guessed it the moment he jumped up and threw the guy over the edge, and I was convinced when he was alive for the funeral..
This has definitely been the best season so far, which is pretty awesome considering Doctor Who is also having its best season so far.


----------



## Phantom

TORCHWOOD WAS AMAZING!

 It sad about Esther... I just noticed her last name.


Mention of the Doctor ftw. Also with Rex the multiple "whats' I came to love from RTD.

And possibility of more Torchwood is win. 

I wanted to kill Charlotte myself, and Oswald was pretty creepy/cool in the end.


----------



## Light

Thanks for that. Makes a lot more sense now.

Just finished season 2. I was scared the idiot Donna was going to be the new girl

Also, didn't know there were other shows linked to Doctor Who. Is Torchwood any good?


----------



## Phantom

Light Yagami said:


> Just finished season 2. I was scared the idiot Donna was going to be the new girl


LIES Donna becomes one of the MOST IMPORTANT characters. And it's hardly spoilers... That season is pretty old. But seriously Donna is amazing she is the companion after Martha.



Light Yagami said:


> Also, didn't know there were other shows linked to Doctor Who. Is Torchwood any good?


Torchwood is amazing, you need to watch it from the beginning. It's all on Netflix. But Children of the Earth, and the new season, Miracle Day, are where Torchwood shine..

Can't forget about the Sarah Jane Adventures... Dannichu will surely rant about that for you. 

We don't talk about K9 and Company....


----------



## opaltiger

Torchwood is terrible 90% of the time, but it's worth it for Children of Earth, which is better than pretty much anything in Doctor Who.


----------



## Light

:/



Phantom said:


> LIES Donna becomes one of the MOST IMPORTANT characters. And it's hardly spoilers... That season is pretty old. But seriously Donna is amazing she is the companion after Martha.


Fixied. It's spoilers if you haven't seen it. Whatever though.
I haven't started the next season yet, is Martha next? And what makes Donna so amazing?


----------



## Phantom

I guess you'd call it spoilers... but she was the most important person in the universe.


----------



## Light

and that magically makes her an intriguing character?


----------



## Phantom

Gah you have to see it.


----------



## opaltiger

Re: Torchwood:



Spoiler



Ridiculousness aside (_through the centre of the Earth what_), did they ever bother explaining why exactly Jack was made mortal? I mean, everything else kind of makes sense, but that really seemed to be a "for the sake of the plot" sort of thing.



Also Donna is awesome because a) she isn't madly in love with the Doctor and b) she isn't afraid to call him out on his bullshit.


----------



## Phantom

opaltiger said:


> Re: Torchwood:
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler
> 
> 
> 
> Ridiculousness aside (_through the centre of the Earth what_), did they ever bother explaining why exactly Jack was made mortal? I mean, everything else kind of makes sense, but that really seemed to be a "for the sake of the plot" sort of thing.
> 
> 
> 
> Also Donna is awesome because a) she isn't madly in love with the Doctor and b) she isn't afraid to call him out on his bullshit.


 
Agreed on the Donna love. And  I didn't get how Jack could be mortal either, obviously he isn't, he might have been overreacting. Maybe the Miracle just hurt his healing abilities or something. How do we know, he never died to prove he was mortal... if that makes sense.


----------



## Harlequin

opaltiger said:


> Torchwood is terrible 90% of the time, but it's worth it for Children of Earth, which is better than pretty much anything in Doctor Who.


yeah children of earth was wonderful. I'm actually slightly annoyed they moved Torchwood to the US. I've not seen much of the new series but what I've heard hasn't been great.


----------



## Phantom

I think Miracle Day isn't as great as CoE, but it's still pretty damn good. I think CoE was a masterpiece.


----------



## opaltiger

Phantom: I thought the reason Jack survived was because the Miracle was reversed before he died, thus granting him immortality back? Clearly he was mortal or his blood wouldn't have worked.


----------



## Butterfree

So tonight's episode!

I bawled. So much. It was the particular bit where the two Amies were talking about why Rory is the most beautiful person in the whole world to them that really got to me, and then I spent the rest of the episode still kind of sobbing after that and then old!Amy got left behind and then I cried even more. D:

Though I was a bit disappointed to find it was less plot-relevant than I thought it would be. I imagined "The Girl Who Waited" would be about the fact Amelia waited for the Doctor and not a completely new plot.


----------



## Phantom

I shouldn't have read that....

opal:  Yeah I get that much, but seeing it from a Doctor Who standpoint it doesn't make sense. Jack is a fixed point, something that can't be changed. He's a fact. He shouldn't have been affected at all.


----------



## Murkrow

I just saw the Torchwood finale. 



Spoiler



And they didn't explain who were in the helicopter in the first episode and as I said after the first episode aired, "If they don't explain that, I will say the entire series was terrible no matter how good the rest was"

Yes it COULD have been the families doing it but at the time that entire scene was Americanized to the max (also Rhossili Bay with no holidaymakers? What.) and so unless they has a _good_ reason for putting the scene in, it's stupid.)






Phantom said:


> I shouldn't have read that....
> 
> opal:  Yeah I get that much, but seeing it from a Doctor Who standpoint it doesn't make sense. Jack is a fixed point, something that can't be changed. He's a fact. He shouldn't have been affected at all.


What I never get about this is If he's a fixed point, why does he still age?


----------



## Lady Grimdour

Jack is a fixed point in the universe, a fact. The universe states that there is Jack Harkness. In some form or another. Jack's blood is a fact, therefore for a while, Rex may be immortal until Jack's blood is flushed out.

The series was badly paced. Well written but badly paced. The Blessing wasn't even explained much, and it showed up in two episodes. I was expecting four if it was that big.


----------



## Phantom

Rasrap Smurf said:


> What I never get about this is If he's a fixed point, why does he still age?


 Because John Barrowman does.


----------



## Murkrow

Phantom said:


> Because John Barrowman does.


>:(


----------



## Phantom

Rasrap Smurf said:


> >:(


What it's true.  They did the same thing with River when she said she was going to 'reverse' her age, explaining why she looked younger when she was supposedly older. (Silence the Library)

I think that was just a explaination for why he looks older.

Still not sure how he turns into the face of Boe


----------



## Murkrow

Phantom said:


> What it's true.  They did the same thing with River when she said she was going to 'reverse' her age, explaining why she looked younger when she was supposedly older. (Silence the Library)
> 
> I think that was just a explaination for why he looks older.
> 
> Still not sure how he turns into the face of Boe


I get that the actor ages but there's no real in-universe explanation for that. They could have just not mentioned it in whatever episode it was (Last of the Time Lords?) and I doubt anyone would complain.


----------



## Light

DON'T BLINK!

Best Episode Ever!!


----------



## Phantom

^ Agreed, one of the best. Love the bit about chickens.


----------



## Lady Grimdour

Jack is not the Face of Boe, officially. It's been hinted, but no real proof. Hell, the Face of Boe dies. Jack is destined to survive the end of the universe.

And Jack's not eternally young, just immortal. He'll age exponentially slower. Considering he's lived about three to four thousand years since The Parting of Ways, he's aged well.


----------



## Phantom

Grimdour said:


> Jack is not the Face of Boe, officially. It's been hinted, but no real proof. Hell, the Face of Boe dies. Jack is destined to survive the end of the universe.
> 
> And Jack's not eternally young, just immortal. He'll age exponentially slower. Considering he's lived about three to four thousand years since The Parting of Ways, he's aged well.


Sensing issue here. Jack isn't that old. A little over 100 at best.


----------



## Phantom

Double posting for epicness.


New episode... DISH!

I don't care about spoilers.


----------



## RosesBones

The Face of Boe does kind of die, but it is in giving his energy to the city so maybe it doesn't count and he can still be Jack.

(That was how that went, right? Sorry, been a while since I've watched Gridlock.


----------



## Phantom

Rose99280 said:


> The Face of Boe does kind of die, but it is in giving his energy to the city so maybe it doesn't count and he can still be Jack.
> 
> (That was how that went, right? Sorry, been a while since I've watched Gridlock.


 Also new universe, maybe it didn't happen.


----------



## Lady Grimdour

Remember that Jack got thrown into the Victorian Ages and joined Torchwood after Satellite Five? He headed the Cardiff team until the 21st Century, when his whole team died. So that's at least 300 years. Add his being buried under Torchwood by Gray and Hart in 27 AD until he was discovered in 1901 and frozen so as not to meet himself. He's at least 3429 years old as of Miracle Day.

And the Face of Boe is dead. His lifeforce was the energy powering New New York.

Jack is old.


----------



## Butterfree

Could you please mark your spoilers with _what_ they're spoiling? I haven't watched Miracle Day but I am interested in discussion of the new Who episodes, if there is any.


----------



## Zeph

Butterfree said:


> Could you please mark your spoilers with _what_ they're spoiling? I haven't watched Miracle Day but I am interested in discussion of the new Who episodes, if there is any.


I agree! I keep having to slowly and tentatively highlighting the spoilers, then clicking away hastily as soon as I see 'Jack'.


----------



## Lady Grimdour

Sorry, sorry. The last spoiler is just about Jack's age, so nothing in Miracle Day.


----------



## Phantom

Yeah, we'll be better about that. So NEW WHO

 NO MORE AMY AND RORY. O_o


That's all my brain can process.

Love the Theseus and the minotaur legend idea though.


----------



## Lady Grimdour

(DW)Thank God they left that way; as a semi-normal couple. I hated the trend of former companions becoming alien fighters just because they've been through time and space. Rose and Martha, for example. Rose was a girl in the London estates, Martha was a doctor. Now look, one's head of Torchwood in a parallel Earth, and the other seems to be a freelance alien hunter whose married to someone who was a mechanic.

I can understand that people change, and it is an interesting take, but I prefer Amy and Rory's exit. The Doctor actually realizing what happens to his companions.


----------



## opaltiger

Spoiler: Torchwood, seasons 1/2



Jack isn't quite _that_ old. It's 200 years on Earth (Victorian period was the 19th century!) plus ~2000 buried alive. So yeah, still old (older than the Doctor! and Rory), but not over 3000 years.


----------



## Dannichu

Spoiler: Doctor Who/Closing Time



Well THAT was fun. I don't understand how people can hate James Corden, he's wonderful. The doctor and the baby conversation was adorable, and the Cybermen were actually pretty scary for a bit in that episode, and yes the ending was a bit cheesy, but it knew it ("I saved the world with _love_!"), so all is forgiven. The Cybermen seemingly only wanting black people was a bit dodgy, though - RTD's racial representation was better than Moffat's, I think. I'd be annoyed at all the "lol, they're a couple!" jokes, but he does actually write gay characters (not as many as RTD - none at all in S5), so he gets a pass there. 

And that ending! Maaaaan. It's all (I assume) coming to an end and we're going to get an explanation for... things. We know it's River in the astronaut suit and I can't think of how the hell the Doctor's going to get out of this one except for the flesh!Doctor, which would be a bit of a cop-out. I'm so excited for next week! :D





Spoiler:  CT's 'Next Time'



I still can't get my head around eyepatch!River, the explanation for that had better be good. I caught a glimpse of a Silurian, so I hope this means we get to see Vastra again :D And Moffat lied, there is a Dalek. And Winston Churchill! And dinosaurs! And other things I'm forgetting, huzzah!


----------



## Phantom

I think he wasn't lying about the Dalek. I think he just meant they aren't going to be the big bads.


----------



## Phantom

I just got a new fish. It's TARDIS blue. We named it Sexy.


----------



## RosesBones

Hawke said:


> I just got a new fish. It's TARDIS blue. We named it Sexy.


That. Is. Amazing.

Closing TimeStormageddon, Dark Lord of All! I love how the Doctor can apparently speak baby. I also love how Craig is just like "You speak baby? Of course you do." (Yay for Stormy!)

Aside from Stormy, OMG SAAAAAAAAD.

I really can't wait to see how this turns out. And the picture on the website of the Doctor with the creepy eye patch that everyone is apparently wearing now is _freaking me out_. O_O


----------



## Phantom

I am sooo excited for tonight!

There was a Who marathon since like midnight on BBC America, with classifieds and stuff. It was awesome.


----------



## Murkrow

Spoiler: new episode



That was better than I expected. Tesselecta Doctor wasn't as much of a cop-out as a flesh one would have been. I wonder if now that he's said he's "stepping back into the shadows", it means he'll be saving planets but trying to do it without drawing attention?

EDIT: Come to think of it, he doesn't need to not attract attention since being a time traveller he could just pass himself off as a version of himself before he 'dies'.


Also I doubt anyone didn't manage to guess 'the last question' right :P


----------



## Phantom

MAJOR SPOILER

I was right! The oldest question, the one hidden in plain site since the beginning of the show! THE NAME OF THE DAMN SHOW! I WAS RIGHT! I GET A FUCKING AWARD OR SOMETHING RIGHT?


----------



## Dannichu

Hee, I got it too :D

Would you like to go out with me for TEXTING AND CRUMPETS??? so, so good. Also, how come blue man gets to come back even though he's decapitated, yet there's no sign of Vastra and Jenny? I want my interspecies Victorian lesbians, dammit! And all the serious-to-funny moments in the episode were perfect, and I'm really glad most of the questions were answered and we've got some new ones for next time. And the episode didn't end with me yelling WHAAAAAAAAT? at the telly, which might be a first for a Moffat series finale of anything.

Also, have a good story - I was at the station today with a friend, waiting for a coach and an announcement came over the tannoy saying "Please don't feed the pigeons" so Ruth and I immediately said "You mean don't feed the PTERODAYCTLS, amirite?" and the guy sitting next to us was thrilled and was all "You're Who fan, too! :D" and he and I had a Who geek-off and I won.


----------



## Phantom

So I managed to catch the new episode at 0400... Yeah...


Pretty awesome, but predictable. Loved the bit at the end where River and Amy are just relaxing and talking. I loved Amy and River's happy dance as well. :D 

EDIT: 1,900 posts!


----------



## RosesBones

Finally watched the new episode. OMG SO AMAZING

NEW EPISODEARGH how did I not guess how this was going to work when they brought out the shape-shifting time-traveling robot. OF COURSE it's the shape-shifting time-traveling robot! Also whenever they mentioned the question I was like "What is six times seven?!

I can't wait for moooooooore


----------



## Murkrow

Wait a minute!

In the first episode of the series, the Doctor starts regenerating but then gets shot again. I'm pretty sure robots don't do that!

So I assume in the first episode it actually was him that was shot, but then he changed it himself to be the robot. Or something like that


----------



## Harlequin

I'm all the way back at series two. I've decided that I should really get on this whole Doctor Who business and it's going well so far. I'm about halfway into series two and I'm still trying to get used to Tennant being the Doctor. It's actually quite a hard adjustment even though I knew it was coming!


----------



## Lady Grimdour

Rasrap Smurf said:


> Wait a minute!
> 
> In the first episode of the series, the Doctor starts regenerating but then gets shot again. I'm pretty sure robots don't do that!
> 
> So I assume in the first episode it actually was him that was shot, but then he changed it himself to be the robot. Or something like that


(DW)It was a simple show of energy.


----------



## Phantom

(DW) Yeah, just fancy stuff. Or it might be that he/River changed/rippedtimeapartandputitbacktogetheragainusingducttape.


----------



## Lady Grimdour

(DW)Also, remember that time is a fixed point. AstroRiver didn't know that it was a robot Doctor, and it has always been a robot Doctor. Fixed points can never be rewritten. So therefore we assume that the first killing is the exact same as the second killing with the robot Doctor.

He was never in danger in the first place. As he said, the universe just thought he was. So he did what he did; borrow a suit. River knew, Canton III didn't need to know, since he only needed to bring the gas to burn any evidence, Dorium knows and now Amy and Rory now know. And the crew of the Tesselecta. Just them.

So the whole damned thing is a loop. Since the event is a fixed point, it must happen so therefore nothing changed; the Doctor has always been in that robot for both killings.


----------



## Murkrow

Grimdour said:


> (DW)Also, remember that time is a fixed point. AstroRiver didn't know that it was a robot Doctor, and it has always been a robot Doctor. Fixed points can never be rewritten. So therefore we assume that the first killing is the exact same as the second killing with the robot Doctor.


See I don't think this is the case; the fixed point was that the Doctor got shot, and that he was on the beach. I think he changed time but kept those conditions the same. The first time he was shot dead, and then something Amy and Rory and River did caused it to change so that he was still there, but inside the robot.


----------



## Lady Grimdour

(DW)Like I said, fixed points in time are solid. Unchangeable. To apply the ball of string theory earlier in the thread, if something were to change in that fixed point, then so many timelines would be rendered useless and therefore would cause the end of everything because something within that fixed point was changed.

Also, the Doctor himself didn't see himself get shot. He only knew he was going to die at the hands of possibly River. So he got himself the suit to fool the universe. He didn't know if he was going to be shot, only that he was going to die.


----------



## Murkrow

Well I still disagree

Stop acting as if your interpretation is THE interpretation :c


----------



## Lady Grimdour

Rasrap Smurf said:


> Well I still disagree
> 
> Stop acting as if your interpretation is THE interpretation :c


All right, all right. I just like the arguing.


----------



## Harlequin

so like

does anyone else get really annoyed when "aliens" show up and they're actually just humans? and then nobody even thinks it's a bit weird? like. I mean. The Doctor is an example but the Titanic episode. and I was. it's like. :|


----------



## Dannichu

Yes. Also, aliens that are humans with an animal's head on (Judoon, the Sisters of Plentitude). I completely get that the BBC doesn't have an unlimited budget, but The Sarah Jane Adventures' budget is a fraction of Who's (and Torchwood, whose best aliens have been a giant space whale and a tentacled thing in a giant tank) and it's had the Uvodni, Bane, Shanseeth, Graske, Trickster and this guy, who's I guess technically a human, but rivals the weeping angels for scariness on a show for 9-year-olds.


----------



## Murkrow

Harlequin said:


> so like
> 
> does anyone else get really annoyed when "aliens" show up and they're actually just humans? and then nobody even thinks it's a bit weird? like. I mean. The Doctor is an example but the Titanic episode. and I was. it's like. :|


But according to the doctor, it's us that look like Timelords!


----------



## Harlequin

Dannichu said:


> Yes. Also, aliens that are humans with an animal's head on (Judoon, the Sisters of Plentitude). I completely get that the BBC doesn't have an unlimited budget, but The Sarah Jane Adventures' budget is a fraction of Who's (and Torchwood, whose best aliens have been a giant space whale and a tentacled thing in a giant tank) and it's had the Uvodni, Bane, Shanseeth, Graske, Trickster and this guy, who's I guess technically a human, but rivals the weeping angels for scariness on a show for 9-year-olds.


I know! It's like, okay so I get that you could maybe pull the "convergent evolution" card, but ... but like not _exactly like humans on the outside_!!  Mind you, the catpeople annoy me because apparently they can interbreed with humans to produce ... kittens. WHY ; ;

(I've pretty much given up on trying to wrap my head around this and I've accepted that Doctor Who is basically science fantasy.)



Rasrap Smurf said:


> But according to the doctor, it's us that look like Timelords!


Well, that's still annoying because _why_ do we look like Time Lords?


----------



## Murkrow

Harlequin said:


> Well, that's still annoying because _why_ do we look like Time Lords?


I usually judge sci-fi (or fantasy) on how well it explains both why all aliens look Luke humans, and why they speak English (if they use those tropes in the first place that is)

Except not explaining it at all is often better than trying and failing. Doctor Who has the best excuse for everyone speaking English I've seen, and the Doctor saying that humans look Time Lord is just a bit of fun lampshade hanging.
(I don't think everyone looking human is ever explained in the classic series either)

To compare, Stargate had a reason for everyone looking human but knew it couldn't think of an excuse why they all speak English, Star Trek explained both but it could have done it better.
Some things like Star Wars can just say they're not speaking English, it's just translated for the audience's sake. But then we come to a scene that wad added to the rerelease of A New Hope and Han says the word "human" argh!

...I'll stop rambling now.


----------



## opaltiger

> But then we come to a scene that wad added to the rerelease of A New Hope and Han says the word "human" argh!


So? o.o Also, Star Wars has loads of alien languages going on, so it's not a matter of "everyone speaks English" but "the main language is English (or, well, sounds like it for our benefit)". The signs are (for the most part) in aurebesh, too, which is a nice touch.


----------



## Dannichu

Harlequin said:


> I know! It's like, okay so I get that you could maybe pull the "convergent evolution" card, but ... but like not _exactly like humans on the outside_!!  Mind you, the catpeople annoy me because apparently they can interbreed with humans to produce ... kittens. WHY ; ;


Ahaha, I love that so much. Especially because that cat that's married a human and had kittens with her is all "Yeah but I don't think the world is ready for _lesbians_".



> Well, that's still annoying because _why_ do we look like Time Lords?


Makes the Doctor/human romances a little less creepy?


----------



## Harlequin

Dannichu said:


> Ahaha, I love that so much. Especially because that cat that's married a human and had kittens with her is all "Yeah but I don't think the world is ready for _lesbians_".


Lesbians are pretty out there. I mean. I don't think the world is ready for that quite yet but everyone loves kittens. :3



> Makes the Doctor/human romances a little less creepy?


I meant from an in-universe point of view! :P


----------



## Murkrow

opaltiger said:


> So? o.o Also, Star Wars has loads of alien languages going on, so it's not a matter of "everyone speaks English" but "the main language is English (or, well, sounds like it for our benefit)". The signs are (for the most part) in aurebesh, too, which is a nice touch.


Because I'm silly, and think that even though the main language is English for our benefit, and so whatever the name is for that species is could be called human for our benefit, think it's silly for them to be called that.

And even sillier, it's entirely possible that they only look like humans for our benefit too, as what matters is the story not the fact that they're humans. If that makes sense.
(unless there's some extended universe thing that I'm missing!)


Oh, and DOCTOR WHO!
Yes, I like its explanation for why everyone speaks English (even though it doesn't cover times when the TARDIS isn't around or anything). Although as I've already mentioned, I'm silly, and as the TARDIS translates things telepathically, I insist that it should know that 



Spoiler: A good man goes to war



when whoever it was wrote down Melody's name on that piece of cloth, they were intending to write Melody Pond, despite that language's lack of a word for Melody and Pond.


 Since, you know, telepathy.




Harlequin said:


> I meant from an in-universe point of view! :P


When I discuss Doctor Who with my parents, they never talk in-universe. It's really annoying.
"Why does the Doctor keep visiting Earth, and mainly the UK, and mainly London and Cardiff?" 
"Because that's where it's filmed."


----------



## Harlequin

My parents absolutely do not understand the concept of "in-universe" at all. Whenever we talk about anything they just say "it's a story" or "because they wrote it that way." It annoys me so much because sometimes it makes no sense at all.


----------



## Murkrow

Harlequin said:


> My parents absolutely do not understand the concept of "in-universe" at all. Whenever we talk about anything they just say "it's a story" or "because they wrote it that way." It annoys me so much because sometimes it makes no sense at all.


What's especially annoying is, if there's an episode I didn't like or I found the writing to be really weak, they say "It's a show for children" as if that's a valid excuse for bad writing.

And I don't even mean when I over-analyse things because that's what I do, I mean when I complain about how the Daleks keep coming back despite being beaten completely, for the last time, they can never come back, it's apparently the laws of the universe that say this, if there were any left the Doctor would know, absolutely no loopholes, FOREVER. Over and over again.


----------



## Dannichu

Harlequin said:


> My parents absolutely do not understand the concept of "in-universe" at all. Whenever we talk about anything they just say "it's a story" or "because they wrote it that way." It annoys me so much because sometimes it makes no sense at all.


I hate this excuse so, so much, not for any in-universe explaining, but because those are the excuses people always give for having all women be love interests or all black people be criminals or all gay people be killed. 

(Doctor Who is actually a wonderful exception to all of the above (though noticably less so in recent series, I'll admit), but generally speaking)


----------



## RosesBones

I like to try to figure out why the story goes the way it goes both in-universe and from a real-life standpoint, but it annoys me when people will only ever look at real-life. I am lucky to have people to watch Doctor Who (along with various other shows) with who share my sentiment.


----------



## Blastoise Fortooate

Rasrap Smurf said:


> Spoiler: A good man goes to war
> 
> 
> 
> when whoever it was wrote down Melody's name on that piece of cloth, they were intending to write Melody Pond, despite that language's lack of a word for Melody and Pond.
> 
> 
> Since, you know, telepathy.


I suppose that since 



Spoiler: the same thing as above



they actually _lacked _a term for 'pond', she actually sewed the word 'river' intentionally, with the meaning for it to mean 'river' and not pond, thus the translation. I don't know about the melody/song part, though... maybe they also don't have music that isn't singing?


----------



## Dragiiin123

closing time's ending was cool as hell


----------



## Steel Scyther

Harlequin said:


> My parents absolutely do not understand the concept of "in-universe" at all. Whenever we talk about anything they just say "it's a story" or "because they wrote it that way." It annoys me so much because sometimes it makes no sense at all.


This happens whenever I point out inaccuracies in anything. Doubly so with cartoons.


----------



## Phantom

I just noticed, the actor that played Oswald Danes is the same from the dad from the Casper movie.


----------



## RosesBones

*eye twitch*


----------



## Phantom

Oswald Danes







The Dad from Casper


I just thought it was ironic... sort of weird.


/noticed it when watching Casper at 4 AM...


----------



## Murkrow

Before torchwood was on, my brother listed actors who were going to be in it and saying what they're known for. I think he did mention the dad from Casper. 
Though if I didn't know any better I'd still be insisting that the dad from Casper was Robin Williams.


----------



## Phantom

Nope. 

The actor's name is Bill Pullman. Same guy.


----------



## RosesBones

He did have a kind of Robbin Williams vibe in that particular movie though.

...not so much in Torchwood. ^^'


----------



## Harlequin

OKAY UM

idk if spoilery but



Spoiler: a good man goes to war



interspecies Victorian lesbians aaaaaaa



I'm only just on series six.


----------



## Dannichu

^ Yesssssss.

Right, you know how I say "this is the greatest thing in the world" all the time? This time I really, really mean it.

(although the thing I got for my birthday is also the greatest thing in the world, and I shall post pictures later.)


----------



## Harlequin

oh my /god/ that video

the ood made that video for me. oooooood.


----------



## Murkrow

Just a question that that made me think of, and this time probably answerable and not just me being an over-analytical silly person who finds the smallest plot holes.

What makes Ood Sigma different from the other Ood? I haven't watched any of those episodes for a while.

Also anyway that video was good! Would have been entertaining to see more cyberman though!


----------



## Phantom

Doctor Who Profile Pic Month.... GO GO GO!


----------



## Dannichu

I dunno about Ood Sigma, actually. I can't remember much about the Ood past them all being called by number on the Impossible Planet 2-parter and that being very sweet, and then Ood Sigma being there in The End of Time. I haven't rewatched Planet of the Ood in a while because I don't remember it being especially good, but it does have Donna. Much like The Sontaran Strategem, really. 

This isn't quite as good as the other vid (I think), but _damn _it's up there. I want to be David and John and Catherine's friend, they all have so much fun ;;


----------



## Frostagin

I've been stalking this club for about a month now and still haven't found what i'm looking for a good chance to post. I guess I'll go watch the video now. 

...Oh I almost forgot. Can I join?


----------



## Lady Grimdour

Sigma's the "herald", as from what I've seen. He also instigated the transformation of the CEO of the Ood slavery thing. He also spoke for the Ood hivemind in that episode.


----------



## Dannichu

Hello, Frostagin :D I like your Rory icon (I want to do Who Profile Picture Month, but don't have any good icons... I do enjoy my signature, though :3).


----------



## Phantom

Hey, I've started making fanvids, cause I'm a geek like that. And a lot of mine are going to be Who related. So if any of you Whovians want to check it out here's my Youtube Channel. 

The one I am currently working on is a Doctor/Rose vid covered by "Never Be the Same" by Red. Which I think is absolutely perfect for that. So if you're interested please stop by, I need Whovian responses to try to make my vids better. :]


----------



## Frostagin

I'll go take a look.

For the Rory pic, I went on Google images and searched for icons of Rory, picked one, cut it down to size, put a white border on it, then put RORY on it in RBY font, which can be found on Spriter's Recource. I love your sig. Not much beats the sight of David and John dancing in the morning. (Even though it's 11:30 am here.)

And I have a Captain Jack quote in one of the random tags in my sig, so I guess that counts?


----------



## opaltiger

_What._


----------



## Harlequin

Yeah, I'm honestly not sure how I feel about this. It's going to be non-canon whatever happens, but I'm just wondering how they'll do this. Are they gong to start with the Doctor's theft of the TARDIS? Will they just drop us down somewhere in the middle?

Will it even be any _good_? I'm thinking that it'll be decent if watched on its own merits, possibly, but a disappointment to fans. I. yeah.


----------



## RosesBones

This displeases me.


----------



## Dannichu

It will be this:







(I _want_ to give it a chance and all... but it _will_ end up being this.)


----------



## Harlequin

; ; please don't be that


----------



## Zero Moment

That looks pretty cool :E
So, how many people are actually participating in DWPPM?


THE 413TH REPLY IS MINE. MWAHAHAHA


----------



## Lady Grimdour

Guys CALM DOWN.

You all forgot one tiny detail: David Yates. He directed the last four HPs, and it was done properly. It won't turn into a Hollywood disaster.

What worries me is his decision to start from scratch, PLUS wanting American writers. Which means that it'll be similar to Stargate or even LOST, in that it''ll be massive and vague, and will involve some CGI destruction.


----------



## Harlequin

Well, he didn't say he _wanted_ American writers, did he? He just said that if an American writer was found he could capture what he wanted he wouldn't be "lol no American".


----------



## Dannichu

Also, I bet it won't have all the gays, like TV Doctor Who. And, thinking about it, it will probably lead to the term "TV Doctor Who", which is just wrong.


----------



## RosesBones

Hopefully they will not refer to the Doctor as "Doctor Who."

...I am not getting my hopes up on that.


----------



## Noctowl

Did anyone see the Matt Smith thingi on childen in need? XD Haha, I found it so funny when his clothes started disappearing... XD I suppose it doesn't help I am a bit of a Matt Smith fangirl...

I want his bowtie...


----------



## Kinova

I am excited for the film! Well, sort of. I am excited to see a big blue box on a big screen. If it's terribly wrong it will hopefully be hilarious, and if it's halfway good then I suppose it'll be like some sort of weird AU fan movie? And will maybe draw more attention to the show in general (particularly outside the UK) either way. So that is worst case scenario, though I'm hoping Yates will do a Potter and make it good, even if it is alien (haha) to the current series.

(I hope even though it is seperate from the current series they have random cameos. Then we could play spot-the-Pond throughout the film even if it is rubbish. c:)

The Children in Need thing was short but amusing! And I am excited for the Christmas one for Narnia and Bill Bailey and the mum from Outnumbered. :D

Oh finally I found David Tennant reading the foreword for Lis Sladen's autobiography, which is lovely if terribly bittersweet.


----------



## Murkrow

Does anyone have a link to the children in need thing if it's on youtube? I don't have a TV :(


----------



## Noctowl

Here you go.


----------



## Murkrow

Thankies


----------



## Phantom

Anyone heard anything new about this supposed movie that I want to murder?


----------



## RosesBones

Um, I have read two things (not just random bloggers, herpderp) that claim it's real, one that says "ahaha this dude will direct it who is not currently associated with DW," and one that says "if a DW movie happened it would star the current Doctor and be directed by this person who is associated with DW at the moment." I don't know if either source is reliable, but that's what I've read about it.


----------



## Phantom

I just head the news about RTD. 

That's just sad. In short, RTD's left his career in order to move back to care for his partner who has been diagnosed with brain cancer.


----------



## Frostagin

OH NOES D:
I forgive you for leaving the show, RTD. You were my(and my mom's) favorite writer, I want you to know that. ;.;


----------



## Phantom

Sooo, Christmas special, what you think of it?

Personally, 



Spoiler



I thought it was rubbish; at least until the last five minutes. I mean it had its moments, but as far as Christmas specials go, I don't think it held up to major specials like "The End of Time" or "Voyage of the Damned". For some reason it felt... forced... I am at a loss for words on how to explain it... but the sheer ripped off-ness from The Chronicles of Narnia put me off a bit. I mean I get that it was in the name, but still, yeah I don't know.

The jokes about 'wood' were funny though. All this time people have been arguing about the sonic screwdriver and wood, and that pretty much settled it. I love how he was talking to the screwdriver. 

I was happy to see Amy and Rory though. I missed having them, and I sort of wished that River was there for Christmas too, it would have been a nice surprise for the Doctor. :) But it was cute that they always left him a spot. And I thought Amy's reindeer sweater was adorable. 

Otherwise I didn't really care for the story much. Just felt corny with a bit of really funny bits.


----------



## Frostagin

I was watching it, but then my brother was loud and I had to restart it. Then my computer broke. It's on my mom's account and not mine, so I can't access it right now. I have to wait for her to get home.

In other news, once my bass is fixed, I'm going to learn some DW stuff on it.

EDIT: Have now seen it. It was a wonderful episode. Also is the only thing with the honor of making me cry, except the ending of Explorers of Sky.

Steven Moffat sure does like writing WW2 episodes, doesn't he? (He wrote The Empty Child/The Doctor Dances, I think. And then the Dalek episode. And now this one.)


----------



## opaltiger

All I'm saying is, Amy _really_ rocks that sweater.

Also, Moffat, I appreciate you trying, but it's best if you don't have the equivalent of large neon signs pointing at your character going "this is me being feminist", especially when you totally weren't being feminist about five minutes ago.


----------



## Phantom

opaltiger said:


> All I'm saying is, Amy _really_ rocks that sweater.
> 
> Also, Moffat, I appreciate you trying, but it's best if you don't have the equivalent of large neon signs pointing at your character going "this is me being feminist", especially when you totally weren't being feminist about five minutes ago.


Agreed on both points. That sweater now needs to be incorporated into her regular wardrobe... :P



Spoiler



The mother just felt so _forced_ you know?


----------



## Dannichu

Ahaha, yes: "He followed me home every day and siad he'd refuse to stop until I married him!" lololol. That said, I loved the house, Matt Smith was excellent through that whole scene (lemonade tap! Hammocks! <3), and the scene with Bill Bailey and the other people was wonderful and I loved it. The story itself was a little eh, but I was pretty high on happiness from The Gruffalo's Child (which was on BBC One before Who) and sugar to really pay that much attention. 

And oh - having Alexander Armstrong play a WWII pilot and not have him end any of his sentences with "...and shit" was a _massive_ oppurtunity missed.


----------



## Phantom

I am sad Karen is leaving, apparently it's official? But from what I've heard round the pond, get it, 'pond'?, is that we're going to see her a lot in series seven and according to Moffat, "The Ponds will be rejoining us next series. But the final days of the Ponds are coming. I am not telling you when and I won't say how. But that story is going to come to a heartbreaking end."

I hope they don't die. And I watched Matt Smith Graham Norton and he talked about Karen and said he was sad because he and Karen had become really good friends. 


Also, I want a lemonade tap!


----------



## Murkrow

So I've now played all of the adventure games available so far, having just finished the Gunpowder Plot. The first four are okay, but the last one is pretty darn good for what it is!
Except for when the Doctor says that the event leads to "400 years" of bonfire nights. Because as we all know, present day to us is present day to the Doctor as well even though he's a time traveller, and all bonfire nights beyond the early 2000s haven't happened yet.

Oh and anyone have any thoughts on the trailer for the next series? The who/whatever it is with the eyepiece reminds me of something, but I can't think what.


----------



## Sypl

Rasrap Smurf said:


> So I've now played all of the adventure games available so far, having just finished the Gunpowder Plot. The first four are okay, but the last one is pretty darn good for what it is!
> Except for when the Doctor says that the event leads to "400 years" of bonfire nights. Because as we all know, present day to us is present day to the Doctor as well even though he's a time traveller, and all bonfire nights beyond the early 2000s haven't happened yet.
> 
> Oh and anyone have any thoughts on the trailer for the next series? The who/whatever it is with the eyepiece reminds me of something, but I can't think what.


Davros maybe?


----------



## Phantom

Dalek?

Also, what are people thinking of the new companion?


----------



## Murkrow

I don't know if we know anything about het except who's playing her, but I'm hoping she's not from Earth, or at the very least not from present day earth.


----------



## Dannichu

Yeah, I was pretty unsurprised by the revelation that she's played by a pretty, skinny, white young British woman. I hope she's from another time/place, and I'd quite like her to be unrelated to the Ponds.

Also, there's a rumour going round that Moffat's planning to cast a woman to play the twelfth Doctor, possibly Lara Pulver. I don't know how much I can see Pulver (Adler in Sherlock) being the Doctor - I'd much prefer an older woman - Emma Thompson would be my pick, although Joanna Lumley did a superb job in The Curse of Fatal Death - but the comments on the linked page are pretty horrifying.


----------



## Frostagin

Rumor is false, I heard. Just like I heard that Cumberbatch will not be playing The Master.
...
God I hope that's true. Otherwise we can never have Wholock!

On the subject of the new companion, she looks nice. Hope she doesn't turn out to be _another_ Rose.


----------



## Phantom

I doubt it. 11/River?


----------



## Kinova

Guys guys it's all a lie _I am the new companion!_

:p But um geeking out about the convention _aside_ whoo there are rumours all around.  Tumblr is fast becoming something like my worst enemy not for procrastination but spoilery Doctor Who photos from filming which I SHALL NOT MENTION but _eek_.

@Danni Oh my goodness Emma Thomson that would be too perfect you can't just _say_ things like that! D:/:D

Mostly with the rumours flying about I remain sceptical of both their content and Moffat's denial of them because I don't trust that man remotely. He is a fiend. (I really do want to like him because he does cool things like _Blink_ and _Sherlock_ and _Jekyll_ but I dunno he does tend to go a bit nuts when he has mostly solo creative control.)


----------



## Dannichu

Oh my gosh, the Doctor Who Experience is _the most fun_, isn't it? I'm so pleased that when I went it wasn't a school holiday or anything so there weren't lots of kids, so I didn't have to give flying the TARDIS over to them or anything, because I probably would've fought them for it :p



Kinova said:


> Mostly with the rumours flying about I remain sceptical of both their content and Moffat's denial of them because I don't trust that man remotely. He is a fiend. (I really do want to like him because he does cool things like _Blink_ and _Sherlock_ and _Jekyll_ but I dunno he does tend to go a bit nuts when he has mostly solo creative control.)


My goodness, this so much. I think my actual dream job would be some sort of advisor to Moffat, where he writes his really good stories, and I'm on hand to say "No, Steve, you definitely should say that" and "What you think is feminist, Steve, sometimes isn't actually feminist", etc, so it'd all be lovely.

And I don't think 11/River existing would mean that the Doctor couldn't be a woman. For starters, of all the fictional people in the world who'd object to their lover turning into a woman, I don't think River would top the list, and also the Doctor's also had the body of a 70-something man and it was fine and dandy that he got with 18-year-old Rose. Although not as creepy as his constant meeting little girls, going forward in time, and then making out with them (Moffat is especially bad for this - I would definitely sit Steve down and talk to him about it).


----------



## Phantom

^ I agree.... but I would rather build on who.

I mean making all the cool stuff they use. SO MUCH FUN TIME.

I have three dreams involving Doctor Who...

1. Be an extra on Doctor Who
2. Be an alien (Like a sontaran... hell I'd BE AN OOD) on Doctor Who
3. Have a character I play die on Doctor Who... not even main character, I'm talking like Daleks come and blow up things and I don't know how to dodge.


----------



## Dannichu

Ahaha, me too. I have a friend who knows some people who were just chillin' in a cafe in Cardiff one afternoon a few years ago, when someone from the BBC came in and said "We're doing a scene for Torchwood just down the road; if you fancy it, you get to run around screaming for a bit" so they all did. I think it might've been for the S1 finale, with the giant shadow-kills-you monster? Anyway, I'm very jealous.


----------



## Frostagin

Lucky.

OMG MOFFAT COME FILM IN LOUISVILLE PLEASE I'LL BE A SCREAMING PERSON OR SOMETHING PLEASE D:

Also, for those of us who are Wholockians, I heard that Moffat said that Cumberbatch isn't going to be the new Master in 2013. Of course, I'm not sure how reliable this is. I can't remember the website, or if it was reliable or not. I'll go searching through my Tumblr links to try and find it.


----------



## Phantom

Pfft forget it. I want John Simm back.


----------



## shy ♡

Phantom said:


> Pfft forget it. I want John Simm back.


So much truth. :[ Master companion? Master + Captain Jack + Doctor. Yes.


----------



## Dannichu

pathos said:


> So much truth. :[ Master companion? Master + Captain Jack + Doctor. Yes.


No. 

Donna. All Donna, all the time. And some Wilf.


----------



## Frostagin

Phantom said:


> Pfft forget it. I want John Simm back.


John Simm = best Master. Full stop.


----------



## Dannichu

John Simm had dancing to Scissor Sisters, this is true. But did he have Dalek bumps?


----------



## Phantom

Heard something interesting this afternoon...

River Song spinoff anyone?

What do you think?


----------



## Frostagin

Phantom said:


> Heard something interesting this afternoon...
> 
> River Song spinoff anyone?
> 
> What do you think?


It could work. River doesn't seem like she'd work as a character without the Doctor.
I could be completely wrong though.


----------



## Murkrow

How much were the tickets to the Doctor Who experience? It's moving to Cardiff and considering I live there I might want to go!


----------



## Kinova

Dannichu said:


> Oh my gosh, the Doctor Who Experience is _the most fun_, isn't it? I'm so pleased that when I went it wasn't a school holiday or anything so there weren't lots of kids, so I didn't have to give flying the TARDIS over to them or anything, because I probably would've fought them for it :p


Ahhh I dunno! That photo was from the set, haha (side note the convention was really cool and essentially a live show of Confidential, which I still can't believe they've scrapped raaagh) - is there a TARDIS in the Experience as well? I'll definitely visit that when I get back to Cardiff in September - and I'll go during school time, good advice. :p

Photo Finish, you might have found out already but I've just looked up the prices here.

A River spin-off... I dunno. I suppose it would be nice to have a story with her not knowing things ahead of time, but I'm not sure. If they wanted to make The Martha Show in like 30 years a la Sarah Jane, I would watch that FOR SURE. Actually they could probably make it now and I'd be good. The Martha Show feat. Wilf. Yes.

Have you guys seen the new on-set photos of Jenna-Louise? Agghhh I miss the series! Normally there's SJA or Torchwood to fill in the gaps, but not this year. :c


----------



## Phantom

Well, obviously there will be no more SJA (tears), and Torchwood is pretty much dead in the water.


----------



## Dannichu

Kinova said:


> Ahhh I dunno! That photo was from the set, haha (side note the convention was really cool and essentially a live show of Confidential, which I still can't believe they've scrapped raaagh) - is there a TARDIS in the Experience as well? I'll definitely visit that when I get back to Cardiff in September - and I'll go during school time, good advice. :p


Coooooooool :D And yes, the Experience is about 50% interactive stuff - getting to 'fly' the Tardis, being on board a spaceship that's being attacked by Daleks, it's actually incredibly fun - and 50% museum, with models of loads of the monsters and stuff like clothes the companions and Doctors have worn. I'd definitely recommend it :)



> If they wanted to make The Martha Show in like 30 years a la Sarah Jane, I would watch that FOR SURE. Actually they could probably make it now and I'd be good. The Martha Show feat. Wilf. Yes.


YES YES YES. The only thing I'd approve of more would be the Madam Vastra spinoff that _should exist_.


----------



## Frostagin

Dannichu said:


> Coooooooool :D And yes, the Experience is about 50% interactive stuff - getting to 'fly' the Tardis, being on board a spaceship that's being attacked by Daleks, it's actually incredibly fun - and 50% museum, with models of loads of the monsters and stuff like clothes the companions and Doctors have worn. I'd definitely recommend it :)


AGGH WHY DOES THE EXPERIENCE HAVE TO BE IN CARDIFF



Kinova said:


> Agghhh I miss the series! Normally there's SJA or Torchwood to fill in the gaps, but not this year. :c


Not to mention there's no other shows to watch either. Next season of Sherlock doesn't come out till 2013. D:


----------



## Phantom

Frostagin said:


> AGGH WHY DOES THE EXPERIENCE HAVE TO BE IN CARDIFF


I feels, friend, I feels.


----------



## Dannichu

Well, with Doctor Who getting increasingly popular in the US, it's only a matter of time before they build a no-holds-barred theme park called DOCTOR WHO AND THE EXTREME RIDES OF PERIL or somesuch, with a Tardis-based ride that throws you around as much as the Tardis is thrown around through the cloud-tunnel-thingy in the opening, rather than the Cardiff 'flying' of the Tardis, where you pull a few levers and feel some minor rumbling.

See also: the Harry Potter theme park in America versus the 'see where some stuff was filmed!' experience we've got going over here :p


----------



## Flora

Dannichu said:


> Well, with Doctor Who getting increasingly popular in the US, it's only a matter of time before they build a no-holds-barred theme park called DOCTOR WHO AND THE EXTREME RIDES OF PERIL or somesuch, with a Tardis-based ride that throws you around as much as the Tardis is thrown around through the cloud-tunnel-thingy in the opening, rather than the Cardiff 'flying' of the Tardis, where you pull a few levers and feel some minor rumbling.


I don't normally post here since I'm not as much of a fanatic as my mom is but this _needs to happen_


----------



## Phantom

Dannichu said:


> See also: the Harry Potter theme park in America versus the 'see where some stuff was filmed!' experience we've got going over here :p


 
True, Danni, but thing is it was a ('an'? It sounds weird) Universal movie, so naturally... 

But we need this Doctor Who theme park. Now.


----------



## Dannichu

Flora said:


> I don't normally post here since I'm not as much of a fanatic as my mom is but this _needs to happen_





Phantom said:


> But we need this Doctor Who theme park. Now.


And this is _why_ the Doctor Who experience is in Cardiff :p Because it's a museum with a small amount of simulated wacky adventure. It's absolutely brilliant, but because you don't get thrown around at any point and there's nothing that could ever be described as 'adrenaline-pumping', it'll never get an American equivalent without some serious investment and massive reworking.


----------



## Phantom

Screw fancy themeparks. All I want is a TARDIS and then sit inside it and giggle while singing "I'm in a TARDIS!".

Actually if I ever go to the UK I will go into every telephone box I find and do that. What you must think of us American Whovians, giggling in phone boxes.


----------



## Frostagin

Phantom said:


> Screw fancy themeparks. All I want is a TARDIS and then sit inside it and giggle while singing "I'm in a TARDIS!".
> 
> Actually if I ever go to the UK I will go into every telephone box I find and do that. What you must think of us American Whovians, giggling in phone boxes.


Somehow I get the feeling that not only will I do this, but my best friends will as well.

And then we're probably going to go to Baker Street and geek out.

And then we'll go to Cardiff and geek out.

And then I'll find something historical and geek out.

And then... Well, you get the picture. I'm an insane Anglophile.


----------



## Phantom

Geez no wonder every person from the UK I've met thinks Americans are crazy.


----------



## opaltiger

But the TARDIS isn't a telephone box! You'd just look silly.


----------



## Dannichu

Well, at the least, they'd look like rabid Inspector Spacetime fans :p


----------



## Phantom

This made me giggle.


----------



## Frostagin

Ehehe.
:3


----------



## Vipera Magnifica

So I figured I should start watching some Doctor Who in my spare time. Problem is, I've never watched Doctor Who before. Is there a best place to start?


----------



## Frostagin

I would start with the first 'new' episode, called 'Rose'. It should be the firs one on Netflix.
If you don't have that much time and want to start on a newer episode, you could start on 'The Impossible Astronaut'. However, I wouldn't suggest this as you'll miss some important points on some characters.


----------



## Phantom

That or there are good "standalone" episodes that could get you to understand the show. For those I would suggest episodes like "Blink" or the two part 'episode' "Silence in the Library/Forest of the Dead"... I also suggest the episode "Midnight" because in my opinion it's fucking brilliant, but it's been debated. 

Otherwise, start from S101, "Rose". It starts slow but gets better.

Another good set of episodes, "The Empty Child/The Doctor Dances".


----------



## Blastoise Fortooate

_Midnight_ is amaaaazing. :D

And it's got _Merlin _in it!


----------



## Phantom

I just read over my suggested episodes... I think I'm Moffat happy... not sure if it's a good thing or a bad thing.


----------



## Kinova

Blastoise Fortooate said:


> _Midnight_ is amaaaazing. :D
> 
> And it's got _Merlin _in it!


YES. :D

I also like 'Dalek' a lot, just because it's quite a good introduction to both the characters and some of the history of the show.

(Don't watch 'Blink' in the dark.)


----------



## Vipera Magnifica

Well, thanks! I've watched the first 5 episodes so far.


----------



## Frostagin

Kinova said:


> YES. :D
> 
> I also like 'Dalek' a lot, just because it's quite a good introduction to both the characters and some of the history of the show.
> 
> (Don't watch 'Blink' in the dark.)


^Ever.

Also, Dalek is a great episode. 'Nuff said.


----------



## Vipera Magnifica

Thanks again everyone. I just finished watching Season 1. I think it's safe to say that at this point, I am addicted beyond the point of return.


----------



## meow07

I was addicted since i was 3


----------



## Vipera Magnifica

NEW EPISODE TOMORROW

We're having a viewing party in my dorm hall with fish fingers and custard :D


----------



## Phantom

Arg, I so wish I could see it. We are having a party too, but I can't go. *tears*


----------



## Frostagin

I don't have cable. Nor do I know anyone who does and watches Doctor Who.
*cries*

Maybe... Maybe we'll find a way to make some fish fingers and custard? *sadly lives in America*

Speaking of which, is vanilla pudding a good substitute for custard? Does anyone know?


----------



## Phantom

Frostagin said:


> Speaking of which, is vanilla pudding a good substitute for custard? Does anyone know?


It works, but it's not the same. I found some custard here that was pretty good.


----------



## Murkrow

Did anyone see the classic Daleks in the background in some bits? There was even an special weapons Dalek in the room where Rory landed!


----------



## Vipera Magnifica

Great episode The doctor is erased from the Dalek's collective memory...


----------



## Zero Moment

Recorded it, will watch later.


----------



## Dannichu

Spoiler



The episode was really great, I thought! I really liked Oswin, although I do kind of wish Moffat would write women with a personality other than 'sassy' (that's not even a feminist thing, it just gets boring as a viewer), and his "lol, women liking women" thing isn't perhaps as progressive as he thinks it is (I'll cut him a break for giving the world Jenny and Vastra who were awesome, but he seriously needs to stop it). And the only black character in the episode died/was dead already. And - I genuinely didn't mean for this post to be be as sociological as this, but - Amy leaving Rory because she decided she's not good enough for him because she can't have children was appalling. (this explains why better than I can). Although, speaking of the Ponds, 'Pond Life' was pretty cute and a nice concept, even though it was a pretty unfortunate title for the miniseries, given that in the UK, 'pondlife' is slang for... people regarded as scum, basically.

The reveal about Oswin was excellently done, I thought, especially because - SPOILER IN A SPOILER - apparently Oswin's actress is going to be a full-time companion after the Ponds leave? That's what I read a while ago and what Wikipedia says, so I'm wondering how on earth that's going to work. Some absolutely excellent acting from Matt, and I loved the sets. The Daleks saying how the Doctor always needs a companion was very cute, too. And "Oh, Oswin, you did it to all of them!" was not only lovely, but I wonder what they're going to do with that in later episodes. Should be good. 

And I can't wait for the next episode! I'm wary about just thinking it's going to be the best thing ever just because it's dinosaurs on a spaceship, because the pirates in space episode last series should've been the best thing ever and so, so wasn't. But the guest actors are all BRILLIANT, so a lot will have to go wrong for it to not be great :)


----------



## Butterfree

Spoiler: Asylum of the Daleks



Oswin was a pretty cool character. I predicted very quickly that she'd turn out to be a Dalek, but I figured that would mean in the puppet sense and that she'd just been lying all along to lure the Doctor into some kind of INESCAPABLE DALEK DEATH TRAP that they for some reason felt the need to make instead of just killing him on the spot when he was at the Dalek parliament, not that she _genuinely thought she was human_. (Speaking of Dalek death traps, I rather enjoyed the implication that the reason the Daleks have always been so incompetent at killing the Doctor but managed to capture him and be in a situation to kill him really easily now is that on some level they're invigorated by his hatred for them.)

Yeah, the Amy thing was weird. I'd be down with Amy personally being devastated at being infertile, sure - she could have an arc about realizing she doesn't have to stake her self-worth on something like that - but here it's all about Rory and treated like this means NO CHILDREN EVER. Granted, the episode didn't get a lot of time to have them actually discuss their options (though obviously they should have discussed their options already instead of Amy just deciding she has to ~give him up~ and not tell him why), so I'm still holding out for there maybe being something in the next/some future episode.

I've got to admit I'm a little surprised by that (otherwise good) article Dannichu linked insisting that Amy just settled for Rory because she couldn't have the Doctor, but then again some Q&A thing with the creators I watched the other day also seemed to insist that there was totally a love triangle still going there, so I guess my perception that Amy has so repeatedly chosen Rory over the Doctor that the love triangle was settled two series ago isn't quite as obvious as it seems to me. (Also, that speech Amy made to older!Amy about Rory in The Girl Who Waited was about the sincerest expression of real love that I've ever seen on television, but I guess Amy trying to jump the Doctor once years ago before they married puts her love for Rory in Serious Doubt anyway, or something.)

Now it's just finding out how Oswin manages to be a permanent companion despite the, you know, being a Dalek bit.


----------



## shy ♡

Dannichu manages to sum up my thoughts so well. :p 



Spoiler: spoilers



I think a lot of people are getting (justifiably) mad about Oswin's throwaway line about being in a 'phase'. I missed that it was a phase the first time watching and assumed she was actually gay and was _so happy_ that the Doctor's gonna actually have a gay companion e___e so now I'm just hoping by 'phase' she meant... realizing now... she actually is gay... sob. Or at least bi sob. I mean I can't even explain how excited I was.

Also Amy leaving Rory was sort of wtf out of nowhere, just to create drama?? I'm glad they're at least back together now because it'd be weird watching them not together. >_>


----------



## Dannichu

Aside from whoo, representation!, a gay (and no, Moffat, not gay-except-for-really-intellectual-guys) lady companion would be absolutely brilliant because it might mean there could be another Doctor-Donna relationship, where they're awesome BFFs, with none of the slightly annoying 'human girl pining over the Doctor who will never return his love' business. 

I also think that Amy doesn't seem to be in love with the Doctor anymore, especially since River married him. Rory and Amy do have some very cute scenes, but the 'childlessness!!!' thing came out of nowhere (not least because they already had a child), and I hope it gets addressed in later episodes.


----------



## shy ♡

Spoiler: spoilers



I KNOW god I'm still _dying_ hoping she's gay e___e I can't even!! Just, someone who doesn't piiiine over the doctor as if he's magic eye porn. Sob. Why can't Moffat ever get it right :[

I just don't get why Amy/Rory couldn't _talk_ about the issue yaknow? LIke. If one of them said 'hey this is my feels' 'this is my feels' then nothing would've happened. And they never seemed like a couple that didn't talk...? Idk?


----------



## Murkrow

Since the schools'll be going back soon, I might be giving the Doctor Who experience a visit since it won't be as crowded.


----------



## Frostagin

omg this episode

Only Rory. Only Rory would try and give a crazy Dalek it's eggs because he thought it was asking for them.

I am also wondering how Moffat is going to handle this whole Oswin thing. I mean, he can't pull another River, that's boooooring. Mum (who is also an avid Whovian) suggested that maybe they'll take her consciousness and stick it in a Ganger?

Also: YES DINOSAURS IN SPACE
MY FIRST 'FANDOM' WAS DINOSAURS
(my second was Pokemon so yeah)

i am forever calling oswin 'souffle lady'


----------



## Dannichu

Doctor Who on FB just brought something super-cool to my attention: this wallscape (if it doesn't work because you don't have FB or something (I don't know how these things work) it's this picture painted excellently on a wall). Wonderful piece of art, and I love that this was a project (getting artists work and making the world a bit more Who-y are both excellent things), but whyyyyy _that_ picture? That picture is, as far as I'm aware, the official series 7 promo picture and it's just so incredibly not in the spirit of Doctor Who. Fires and explosions and the Doctor just standing there holding an unconscious Amy?? What happened to the Doctor running away from stuff? I really love the Doctor holding his companion's hand as they're running away from a villain, most of whom don't need to be exploding in a raging fire to be awesome. But holding her unconscious body? Amy holding an unconscious Doctor would've made more sense.


----------



## Phantom

Dannichu said:


> Doctor Who on FB just brought something super-cool to my attention: this wallscape (if it doesn't work because you don't have FB or something (I don't know how these things work) it's this picture painted excellently on a wall). Wonderful piece of art, and I love that this was a project (getting artists work and making the world a bit more Who-y are both excellent things), but whyyyyy _that_ picture? That picture is, as far as I'm aware, the official series 7 promo picture and it's just so incredibly not in the spirit of Doctor Who. Fires and explosions and the Doctor just standing there holding an unconscious Amy?? What happened to the Doctor running away from stuff? I really love the Doctor holding his companion's hand as they're running away from a villain, most of whom don't need to be exploding in a raging fire to be awesome. But holding her unconscious body? Amy holding an unconscious Doctor would've made more sense.


I've heard someone say that it's the American influence on Doctor Who.

As for the not conscious Amy... she is supposed to die or _something_ this season. I mean this is her last one. Maybe it's an allusion to that?


----------



## Dannichu

Dinosaurs on a Spaceship!



Spoiler



Eh. I was wary for the wrong reasons - the episode was actually quite fun and had some good moments - I loved Mitchell and Webb as the robots, the dinosaurs looked great (by BBC standards), Rory's dad was wonderful, and there were some lovely moments and lines in the episode. I'm just really, really annoyed that Nefertiti didn't really do anything except be taken hostage and then have sex with the sexist ass that had been wildly inappropriate all episode. I'd be less annoyed if Nefertiti wasn't an actual person who Moffat had twisted for his own purposes. 
Speaking of, it's only episode 2 of the new series and I'm missing RTD's massive cast of reoccurring characters (Harriet Jones, Mickey, Wilf, Jack, Boe, Sarah Jane...), a missing that doesn't usually hit till the finale. You can't just take a queen from Ancient Egypt (or a game hunter from Victorian times for that matter), throw her on a spaceship with dinosaurs and fail to explain why she isn't freaking out. I'm tired of these one-off characters being friends with the Doctor already, but us having never seen them before. Craig's second episode was done _wonderfully_, I just wish he'd do it more.

The Doctor still having a Christmas list was very cute, and I do kind of enjoy that the Doctor's now kissed River, Amy _and_ Rory.


----------



## Vipera Magnifica

Haha, DOCTORxRORY IS NOW CANON.


----------



## Amala

*avoids spoilers like the plague*

I'd like to join. I haven't seen much of dr who but I've seen a few episodes, and it looks pretty cool. I read the thread and I'll check out the suggested episodes. Where can I find them at?


----------



## Vipera Magnifica

Amala said:


> *avoids spoilers like the plague*
> 
> I'd like to join. I haven't seen much of dr who but I've seen a few episodes, and it looks pretty cool. I read the thread and I'll check out the suggested episodes. Where can I find them at?


Seasons 1-6 are all on Netflix. It's probably the easiest way to watch all the episodes. If you don't have a Netflix account, just mooch off a friend who has one, or better yet, sign up for a trial.


----------



## Amala

Though I remember someone telling me not all the episodes are on netflix? Something about specials?


----------



## Murkrow

I wasn't too fond of yesterday's episode.


Spoiler



Hunter man (or whatever it was he does) didn't seem to serve any use to the plot at all. He shot a few dinosaurs, is that it? I swear he could have been taken out of the episode and it would have been exactly the same.
Brian should have been much more weirded out by everything that was happening. I know people accepting things too quickly isn't exactly new in Who but it's still quite unrealistic when they accept it _too_ quickly. Almost as bad as Huw Edwards's 'Everyone vanished from the olympic stadium, but they're back now! Oh well!'
I suppose Egyptian Lady and Hunter Man could have travelled with the Doctor before, so I suppose what's why they weren't freaking out.
The robots could have been good, but they got annoying after a bit.
The fact that in order to fly the ship, two people who are related are required. What's the point of that? Is it to stop people from hijacking it? Because what if hijackers happen to be related - why not make the computer just make sure the pilots are Silurian? Because what if one of the Silurian pilots died? I refuse to believe that all of them on the ship were related because it was an ark and I'd want to get as much diversity onto it as possible. Also it was incredibly convenient that Brian just happened to be there so he and Rory could fly it. It feels like the writer needed those two to do something but nobody else, and came up with a plot device just for that purpose.
I'm not a fan of innuendos. I'm especially not a fan of ones as painfully obvious as the "my balls" and "big weapon" ones. This episode felt like they appealed to older audiences with jokes like that and the youngest with the robots who were constantly arguing. Instead of appealing to both with, you know, good writing.

I've seen a few people complain that the Doctor basically killed Filch, but it didn't really bother me that much. He killed the Sycorax in The Christmas Invasion. Also he killed Tricey!


----------



## Butterfree

Dannichu said:


> Dinosaurs on a Spaceship!
> 
> Eh. I was wary for the wrong reasons - the episode was actually quite fun and had some good moments - I loved Mitchell and Webb as the robots, the dinosaurs looked great (by BBC standards), Rory's dad was wonderful, and there were some lovely moments and lines in the episode. I'm just really, really annoyed that Nefertiti didn't really do anything except be taken hostage and then have sex with the sexist ass that had been wildly inappropriate all episode. I'd be less annoyed if Nefertiti wasn't an actual person who Moffat had twisted for his own purposes.





Spoiler



I'm not sure I'd quite agree that Nefertiti didn't do anything - she wasn't _taken_ hostage so much as giving herself up temporarily to save others, of her own volition, and eventually she was the one who incapacitated Solomon. Her getting with Riddell _was_ pretty awful, though.

I agree with Photo Finish on the contrivedness of the "pilots must be related" thing and how quickly Rory's dad accepted the whole thing (did he even know the Doctor existed?). Still reasonably enjoyable, though.

I'm not too keen on how the Doctor killed Solomon, but that's mostly because it was played pretty much like a standard beat-the-bad guy thing. The Doctor is generally so averse to killing that it should be a big deal when he does, or considers doing it. I want to see trembling Time Lord _rage_, you know.


----------



## shy ♡

Spoiler: spoilers



Agreed with everything everyone's said. I figured Nephertiti and hunter-guy had been with the Doctor before on trips so they were use to it (though _god_ why in the world would the Doctor take hunter-guy anywhere, he's so gross), but Rory's dad, wtf. 

Also yeah I want a bit more of a reaction if the Doctor's actually killing someone. I mean even for me that was a bit... okay... killing's not cool... I mean yeah he's not a _good person_ but the Doctor must surely think about it more than just, eh, bye guy press button you're dead. ?_? 9th doctor was perfect in his murder - so much _rage_ and it really epitomized how the doctor _was_, he was an angry doctor man. But 11 isn't really angry? He's more, jokey. It seems so ooc for him to a) kill someone and b) not act like it's a big deal at all.


----------



## Dannichu

Spoiler



Actually, I was more miffed when the Doctor aided the destruction of an entire planet-asylum without seeming morally perturbed by it at all. I know the Daleks are the Doctor's biggest enemy and they had the potential to do some seriously bad stuff, but it was established the all the Daleks in the asylum were old/mad (most of them were just sleeping, to be fair), and the Doctor having absolutely no qualms at all about killing them all seemed a bit Tory of him. 

Although him killing Filch was annoying, too. Even when the Doctor killed the Sycorax, it was after he'd given them a chance to run away (not something he gave Filch the option of doing) and even after it was made clear they were a continuing threat to humanity, after Harriet Jones had them all killed, he basically ruined her life for it (ageism for the win, Tenth Doctor, not your finest moment).

The only thing the Doctor's done that I can think of that comes close to killing Filch like he did was with the Family of Blood, which was, like Butterfree said, full of Time Lordy _rage_ and quite chilling to watch.

Ahaha, oh my god, Huw Edward's bit on Doctor Who (on the otherwise bland Fear Her) might be my favourite moment ever. "Bob?? Where are you Bob???"






Amala said:


> Though I remember someone telling me not all the episodes are on netflix? Something about specials?


The Specials are meant to come between the end of series 4 and the beginning of series 5, so even if they aren't available on Netflix, if you're starting watching from the beginning, you won't reach them for a while anyway (plus, half of them aren't very good at all). I'm sure someone will have them all uploaded somewhere. I'm so jealous of you being able to watch the early series for the first time; if you do start watching, you should post here about your favourite episodes and stuff as you go :D


----------



## Murkrow

Dannichu said:


> Although him killing Filch was annoying, too. Even when the Doctor killed the Sycorax, it was after he'd given them a chance to run away (not something he gave Filch the option of doing) and even after it was made clear they were a continuing threat to humanity


I feel he did sort of give him a choice. He made it clear to Filch that he disapproved of his ways, and even at the very end, he was bargaining for his life with possible illegal rare items rather than changing his ways. The Doctor must've decided that he was irredeemable. Though yeah, more of a reaction would've been better.

Perhaps with the Sycorax, he wasn't going to blame the entire crew of the ship for what they were probably told to do.



			
				Dannichu said:
			
		

> after Harriet Jones had them all killed, he basically ruined her life for it.


Yet another stupid moment on the news in Doctor Who. "There was an alien spaceship in the sky today. But forget about that, is the prime minister healthy??"


----------



## Butterfree

Dannichu said:
			
		

> (plus, half of them aren't very good at all)


But the others are amazing, so please do hunt down The Waters of Mars and The End of Time when you get there.


----------



## Vipera Magnifica

Dannichu said:


> The Specials are meant to come between the end of series 4 and the beginning of series 5, so even if they aren't available on Netflix, if you're starting watching from the beginning, you won't reach them for a while anyway (plus, half of them aren't very good at all). I'm sure someone will have them all uploaded somewhere. I'm so jealous of you being able to watch the early series for the first time; if you do start watching, you should post here about your favourite episodes and stuff as you go :D


All the specials except Planet of the Dead and A Christmas Carol _are_ available on Netflix, and you still shouldn't have much trouble finding those elsewhere.


----------



## Dragon

I'm joiningggg

I'm on season 5! I just finished those specials you guys were talking about oh man The Waters of Mars and The End of Time got depressing. 

And Amala; a simple Google search will lead you to the specials that aren't on Netflix (and actually I didn't know the episodes were on Netflix, so I watched them here and googled the missing ones.)


----------



## Dannichu

Oh my god, yes, the Waters of Mars was _brilliant_. Adelaide Brooke forever <333 It was as good as Planet of the Dead was bad (which is to say, very)

Dragon, how do you think S5 holds up against Russel T Davies' Who?


----------



## Dragon

Dannichu said:


> Dragon, how do you think S5 holds up against Russel T Davies' Who?


Oops I'm only two episodes into S5 so I'll get back to you on that in a bit :D?


----------



## Amala

Dannichu said:


> The Specials are meant to come between the end of series 4 and the beginning of series 5, so even if they aren't available on Netflix, if you're starting watching from the beginning, you won't reach them for a while anyway (plus, half of them aren't very good at all). I'm sure someone will have them all uploaded somewhere. I'm so jealous of you being able to watch the early series for the first time; if you do start watching, you should post here about your favourite episodes and stuff as you go :D


Ok! I'll do that. 

So I started. I don't like the the Doctor so far. (I just finished the second episode with Rose.)

Not putting stuff in spoilers because it's pretty old. 

First his ears are outright _distracting_, and for some reason I can't understand his accent, but I understand everyone else just fine. But what I do get from him is this overwhelming feeling of him being a bit of a jerk... actually a lot of a jerk. 

When do we get to the cute one?

I like Rose though. 



Butterfree said:


> But the others are amazing, so please do hunt down The Waters of Mars and The End of Time when you get there.


Will do. (HOLY CRAP THE ADMIN TALKED TO ME)


----------



## Butterfree

The Doctor has his own quirks in every incarnation. Out of the new series, Nine is more distant and jerkish, Ten is usually very human and sympathetic (except in that one incident ugh), and Eleven is a naïve cloud cuckoolander (though to some extent that's him putting on a show to hide his inner darkness). So don't worry if you're not overly fond of Nine; I wasn't either, but Ten is one of my favorite characters ever. (And Eleven is pretty wonderful, but usually doesn't happen to push my buttons in the same way.)

I don't know which is "the cute one" as far as you're concerned, but Nine is only there for the first series; then it's Ten for the next three, and then Eleven for two-going-on-three.

The first episodes I really liked were the first two-parter by Stephen Moffat, "The Empty Child" and "The Doctor Dances", by the way. So even if you're not overly impressed with the first series immediately, be patient. (Also, the Slitheen two-parter, though otherwise not great, has Harriet Jones who is awesome.)


----------



## Dannichu

Yeah, I liked Doctor Who well enough, but it wasn't until the Doctor Dances/Empty Child that I sat up and was like "Woah, this is _good_". I really like Rose, and I'm really fond of Nine (I love his ridiculous face), although I've heard that foreigners do find his accent completely incomprehensible. That might be why they have David Tennant (who plays Ten) put on an English accent instead of using his (brilliant) native Scottish one.


----------



## shy ♡

First time I've heard anyone complain about Nine's accent, actually, though everyone seems to dislike his _ears_ of all things. Seriously, I just find picking one someone's facial features to be kind of weird. >_> I personally _love_ Nine to bits, so, eh... I wish he'd stuck around longer.


----------



## Dannichu

I can kind of understand how a person really used to mainstream American TV could be weirded out by seeing non-absolutely-beautiful people on telly. At least, it works the other way for me, and if I've been watching too much UK comedy (I love the cast of QI to death, but, let's be honest, none of them gave up modelling careers),and then turn over to almost anything not on HBO and get creeped out by how conventionally attractive everyone is.


----------



## Vipera Magnifica

That's pretty absurd to complain about the ninth doctor because of his _ears_. Personally I think Eccleston is great, and I'd give anything to see him in an episode where 9, 10, and 11 all converge timelines. It certainly wouldn't be anti-canon, as 1, 2, and 3 often met in the same timeline, and 5 and 10 met briefly in Time Crash.

It's just a disappointment that Eccleston doesn't want to do any more episodes, on account of having issues with management.


----------



## shy ♡

Dannichu said:


> I can kind of understand how a person really used to mainstream American TV could be weirded out by seeing non-absolutely-beautiful people on telly. At least, it works the other way for me, and if I've been watching too much UK comedy (I love the cast of QI to death, but, let's be honest, none of them gave up modelling careers),and then turn over to almost anything not on HBO and get creeped out by how conventionally attractive everyone is.


I've never thought about this actually. I sort of separate shows like QI and scripted shows, so that's partly why, but also I don't tend to quantify how attractive actors are in shows I watch unless the character is extremely likeable and then I fall in love with them regardless of how pretty they are, ehehe. (Especially since what I think pretty is and what TV thinks pretty is are pretty different. Actually that's probably more the reason why I wouldn't notice... haha.)


----------



## Lady Grimdour

Vehement Mustelid said:


> That's pretty absurd to complain about the ninth doctor because of his _ears_. Personally I think Eccleston is great, and I'd give anything to see him in an episode where 9, 10, and 11 all converge timelines. It certainly wouldn't be anti-canon, as 1, 2, and 3 often met in the same timeline, and 5 and 10 met briefly in Time Crash.
> 
> It's just a disappointment that Eccleston doesn't want to do any more episodes, on account of having issues with management.


I thought it was all about him not wanting to be typecasted.


----------



## Vipera Magnifica

Grimdour the Motivator said:


> I thought it was all about him not wanting to be typecasted.





			
				Wikipedia said:
			
		

> On 30 March 2005 the BBC confirmed that Eccleston would not be staying in the role for a second series, claiming that he was scared of being typecast. On April 4 they admitted that this statement had been made without consulting the actor, and were forced to apologise. *Speaking to the Yorkshire Evening Post in 2010, Eccleston denied that he left due to fear of being typecast. He stated that he "didn't enjoy the environment and the culture that we, the cast and crew, had to work in" and that he did not want to do any more based on the experience.* He said, "I wasn't comfortable. I thought 'If I stay in this job, I'm going to have to blind myself to certain things that I thought were wrong.' And I think it's more important to be your own man than be successful, so I left. But the most important thing is that I did it, not that I left. I really feel that, because it kind of broke the mould and it helped to reinvent it. I'm very proud of it." According to the Sunday Mirror, an interview for BBC's Doctor Who website that was taken down after his departure was announced revealed that Eccleston had planned to stay for two or three more years.


----------



## Amala

Farting aliens with zippers? (Laughs)

For real, that is the single most crazy thing I've ever heard of.


----------



## Phantom

Amala said:


> Farting aliens with zippers? (Laughs)
> 
> For real, that is the single most crazy thing I've ever heard of.


I think someone already said it, but "The Empty Child/The Doctor Dances" is damn good Who.

'Farting' aliens... notsomuch.

That episode always makes me feel awkward for some reason.


----------



## Vipera Magnifica

What, farting aliens are too highbrow for you?

_Whyyyy >_>_


----------



## Dannichu

Spoiler: Mercy



Wheeey, they addressed the Doctor doling out vigilante justice!


----------



## Murkrow

Quite liked today's episode.


Spoiler



I was afraid they'd get out of the whole dilemma by having the bad doctor (can't remember his name) willingly give himself to save the town, so the Doctor wouldn't have to make a decision. So I'm glad that they made him change his mind _after_ the Doctor came up with an escape plan.


----------



## Vipera Magnifica

Oh my, some pretty big character development. We sure are getting a lot of timelordy rage this season. Since when does the Doctor ever point a gun at someone?

But, overall, I liked this episode quite a lot more than the previous one, and perhaps even more than the season opener.

Oh, and best line:
"His name is Susan and he wants you to respect his life choices!"


----------



## Lady Grimdour

I fucking LOVED the Time War implications throughout the Doctor's movements against Jex. Especially when Jex said that the Doctor has never probably made the same decisions he has, I had 'Nam-esque flashbacks of the Time Lords and the Master and Davros.

The juxtaposition between them is brilliant!


----------



## opaltiger

So, Toby Whithouse for next showrunner, anyone? He can certainly do characters.

Also. What do you guys think of the recurring elements in the first three episodes? We've had lightbulbs (dead and/or flickering), eggs, and Christmas. The last is a touch tenuous, I admit, but it might simply point towards something significant happening in the Christmas special, which we all probably assumed was true anyway.

But the other two? I don't mean to say they're foreshadowing in the way other series-arc motifs have been (i.e. within the plot) but I think they might be clues. Apparently 



Spoiler: future episodes



the Weeping Angels are coming back, and flickering lightbulbs are definitely something I associate with them.


 No idea what the eggs could mean.


----------



## Dannichu

opaltiger said:


> No idea what the eggs could mean.


MOAR PREGNANCY :DDDD

(god I hope not)


----------



## Lady Grimdour

Eggs: Daleks.

Harken back to Asylum of the Daleks.


----------



## Murkrow

Is anyone else not too fond of the way the intro looks this series? Too dark, glowy and slightly tinted red for my liking.

EDIT: I just checked some other DW discussions and a couple of people seem to think that the intros are getting darker each episode. I just checked on iPlayer and I don't really see much difference between the first two episodes but Mercy definitely seems darker. Connected to the flickering lightbulbs maybe?

EDIT2: Heh, upon watching them closer, the "DOCTOR WHO" in each of the intros seem to be made out of something relevant to the episodes

And I'm certain the way the names fade away like smoke in addition to the font reminds me of something but I've no idea what.


----------



## shy ♡

Photo Finish said:


> Is anyone else not too fond of the way the intro looks this series? Too dark, glowy and slightly tinted red for my liking.
> 
> EDIT: I just checked some other DW discussions and a couple of people seem to think that the intros are getting darker each episode. I just checked on iPlayer and I don't really see much difference between the first two episodes but Mercy definitely seems darker. Connected to the flickering lightbulbs maybe?
> 
> EDIT2: Heh, upon watching them closer, the "DOCTOR WHO" in each of the intros seem to be made out of something relevant to the episodes
> 
> And I'm certain the way the names fade away like smoke in addition to the font reminds me of something but I've no idea what.


Yeah, they're making the intro relevant to the episodes now.


----------



## Phantom

The intro thing is weird. I mean it's okay, but... gah I don't know how I feel. But it's stupid if they incorporate it into the ending or something somehow. The credits are meant to be outside the show, you know? Most of the time I skip past it. (unless it's a new episode and I haven't seen it yet.) 

This season is... weird. I can't connect with it at all. The constant "HEY I'M GAY LOOKY LOOKY" is getting annoying. Plus Amy and Rory's characters just... aren't the same. They're so off put and distant. I do NOT like it at all. Amy's become a bitch, and Rory a smart ass. Did I mention Amy's become a bitch?

And the Doctor, he's like a todler with a temper tantrum. Like in "A Town Called Mercy"  the little stand off thing that led to the law man sacrificing himself. It was like a little kid after his mommy told him he couldn't have candy. 

Matt Smith cannot be Ten or Nine. He tried. He failed. He's just not capable of being an angry/stoic/angst-y Doctor.


----------



## Lady Grimdour

I think that's the point of Amy and Rory's characters now. They're so distant to the Doctor because they now have their own lives to run and they, like the Doctor, have become world-weary. Rory summed it up well in the preview: they've got two lives, their own lives and their lives with the Doctor. Amy's become a bitch because she's started to rely on herself, since the Doctor isn't always going to be there. Rory just gained some backbone after being kicked out by Amy.

We're not going to see Amelia and her childhood friend when we leave them, we're going to see Rory and Amy Williams, an average couple doing average things. They've outgrown the Doctor.


----------



## shy ♡

Spoiler: spoilers



I agree with Phantom about this season. I don't think it's as good so far as last season. Last season started with a great overarching plot and a great monster in the Silence that drew in past seasons from the go. This season doesn't have a strong overarching plot and seems to be monster of the week, which is my least favourite plot device. And I agree that 11 is becoming weaker than 9/10. He's just too childlike for me, honestly. 9 and 10 both had extreme depth, and 11 is lacking that; he's a pure child. It's annoying. He's very gimmicky and physical which is why, I think, lots of people like him - 'I wear a stetson now, stetson are cool'. Yeah, it's cool, but... I want depth? Eh.

I still like Amy/Rory, but it's super annoying how they keep leaving and coming back. :\


----------



## opaltiger

Speaking of Eleven - has there been any talk about whether or not Matt Smith is staying on for a fourth series?


----------



## Blastoise Fortooate

Spoiler: spoilers



While I see where people are coming from with saying that Eleven lacks depth, I sort of disagree! He certainly does act more childish than his previous two incarnations, but along with that there's a sort of half-hidden dangerous animal sort of thing that he covers up. He's really the first out of the three to out-and-out kill when he didn't have to (excepting a few instances like Ten's stony-faced insect murder). And the difference there is that killing Filch got Eleven absolutely nothing except the revenge that, to this point, he has decried. It's maybe not executed in the best possible way, but I certainly find it interesting as far as his character goes.

I was disappointed by Dinosaurs on a Spaceship (uuuugh how do you mess _that _up), but Mercy was certainly way better and it even sort of made me feel better about what I felt was majorly wrong with Dinosaurs. Also getting tired of 'did i mention i'm bi but not really? teeheee' from the writers.


----------



## Phantom

Blastoise Fortooate said:


> Spoiler: spoilers
> 
> 
> 
> While I see where people are coming from with saying that Eleven lacks depth, I sort of disagree! He certainly does act more childish than his previous two incarnations, but along with that there's a sort of half-hidden dangerous animal sort of thing that he covers up. He's really the first out of the three to out-and-out kill when he didn't have to (excepting a few instances like Ten's stony-faced insect murder). And the difference there is that killing Filch got Eleven absolutely nothing except the revenge that, to this point, he has decried. It's maybe not executed in the best possible way, but I certainly find it interesting as far as his character goes.





Spoiler: River says "Spoilers!"



Actually both Nine and Ten had killed intentionally. Sort of. Nine had Lady C. Ten had The Family of blood, insect lady, and they both had plenty of rage moments. See Tennant Waters of Mars.


----------



## Murkrow

Spoiler: spoilers for power of three



The ending seemed a bit rushed but overall I quite liked this episode.
But surely all those people whose hearts stopped beating would just die anyway? I mean the Doctor had to get from UNIT to the hospital so it's not like it was in real time. And what was up with the girl at the hospital who turned out to be a robot working with the cubes? She really, _really_ had nothing to do with anything. Was she just sitting in the same seat at the hospital for the entire year?

Christmas: There were fairy lights behind the TARDIS when it was December

Lightbulbs: There was a power-cut at UNIT.


----------



## shy ♡

Blastoise Fortooate said:


> Spoiler: spoilers
> 
> 
> 
> While I see where people are coming from with saying that Eleven lacks depth, I sort of disagree! He certainly does act more childish than his previous two incarnations, but along with that there's a sort of half-hidden dangerous animal sort of thing that he covers up. He's really the first out of the three to out-and-out kill when he didn't have to (excepting a few instances like Ten's stony-faced insect murder). And the difference there is that killing Filch got Eleven absolutely nothing except the revenge that, to this point, he has decried. It's maybe not executed in the best possible way, but I certainly find it interesting as far as his character goes.
> 
> I was disappointed by Dinosaurs on a Spaceship (uuuugh how do you mess _that _up), but Mercy was certainly way better and it even sort of made me feel better about what I felt was majorly wrong with Dinosaurs. Also getting tired of 'did i mention i'm bi but not really? teeheee' from the writers.
> 
> 
> [/spoiler]





Spoiler: spoilers






Spoiler: spoilers



Yeah, the thing is, that comes off more as bad writing rather than actual depth. Because he seems to have _no reaction at all_ to killing those people, which jars so much with his character. Nine and ten had so much depth when they killed that it seems like a pitiful comparison, and I probably would still be loving 11 way more than I do now had he not done the killing and I not _had_ to compare.

re: this episode... I think it was pretty good but again the Amy/Rory leaving all the time is just getting really annoying. I know they're prepping for when they leave for good but it's just grating constantly. 9_9 And the Amy voiceovers are just bleh. Otherwise aside from the girl android who yes was wtf, it was a decent episode... The most interesting part for me was when Amy/Eleven had the conversation in which she mentioned how he's always running. I think that's actually rather interesting and something he still doesn't realize about himself because he denied it.


----------



## Phantom

Spoiler: spoiler and raaaage



ok. The cube stole my bloody idea. The annoying chicken dance behind sound proof door was MY idea. From my youtube channel. Except mine involved the Master and robots with self esteem issues.

Still...

MINE


----------



## Murkrow

Spoiler: spoiler for Angels take Manhattan



I really liked this episode. I was just thinking why the book has to be taken as truth when they could just make River write lies and avoid the whole changing the future thing, but then BAM they end up seeing old Rory dying so even if the book isn't telling the truth, they can't deny that Rory dying didn't happen.

Sad to see Amy and Rory leaving but perhaps it would have been sadder if iPlayer didn't have "The Doctor's heart-breaking farewell to Amy and Rory" in its description. Seriously, that's the _worst_ place to put a spoiler. At least seeing the Doctor Who facebook page post about could be blamed on me for not isolating myself before seeing the episode, but the main reason iPlayer is used is for people who didn't see it live.
Unless them dying in this particular episode was already known so it isn't exactly a spoiler but still!

I don't want to say "it's good they died" since that's quite a mean thing to say. But it is good that they didn't pull an 'actually in a parallel universe so officially dead in ours' or 'lost her memory so kind of dead' when the hook of the episode was that she is going to die in this episode got really old very fast.
It's nice that they lived into their 80s 2080s, continuing on from last week's theme of them having a normal life without the Doctor, which they finally had to have in the end.

A lingering question though, what happened to that last angel in the cemetery, did they just leave it there? (Also while I guessed from the episode title that the statue of liberty might be an angel, it was quite unrealistic that nobody would be looking at it long enough for it to move)


----------



## opaltiger

Spoiler: angels take manhattan



So... if they can't go back to New York to pick up Rory, why can't they go back to, say, New Jersey and drive up?


----------



## Phantom

opaltiger said:


> Spoiler: angels take manhattan
> 
> 
> 
> So... if they can't go back to New York to pick up Rory, why can't they go back to, say, New Jersey and drive up?


 Even the Doctor avoids Jersey Shore.


----------



## Vipera Magnifica

Phantom said:


> Even the Doctor avoids Jersey Shore.





Spoiler: spoiler


----------



## Phantom

Vehement Mustelid said:


> Spoiler: spoiler
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> [/spoiler]





Spoiler: spoiler



Exactly. 

On another note: 



Spoiler: Spoilers



I liked this episode. Not sure how the Statue of Liberty would be able to move. I mean, there's gotta be _someone_ looking at it 24/7, honestly.


----------



## Lady Grimdour

Photo Finish: It was already known that they were going to leave the show. Not die.


----------



## Dannichu

Spoiler: Christmaaaaaaaaas



PROS:

* Jenny and Vastra being excellent. +100000 bonus points for the episode airing directly after the news discussing how a Catholic Archbishop thinks gay marriage is a sham. 
* I thought the snowmen were pretty good villians. The imagination thing was cool. 
* The magical staircase was GREAT
* I love the new TARDIS interior, especially all the Gallrefreyan symbols all over the place
* I also really liked the new opening credits. They were being delightfully psychedelic and I said 'it feels like a badly-CGI'd version of Matt Smith's face is about to appear' AND THEN IT DID.
* Moffat being meta with the Sherlock Holmes stuff. I've spent a lot of today thinking about whether I liked it or not, and I've decided I do.
* Stylistically, this episode was brilliant. The Beeb does period dramas like no other, and the costumes and locations were all wonderful. 
* Exciting stuff in the 'Next time'. I need to watch it again, but the main things I noticed were Cybermen (and Canary Wharf, maybe? Torchwood returning to Who, please!), the Titanic (something sinking), and CELIA IMRIE.

CONS: 

* Doctor Who? Doctor Who? Doctor Who? Arc words were much more fun when they were subtle.
* The plot played a waaaaaaay second fiddle to the questions Moffat threw in the air with Oswin coming back.
* I love the character of Jenny, but I can't actually love her as much as I want to because I don't actually think her actress is very good :(
* Oswin dying in every timeline could get very old very quickly.



Also the Royal Mail are doing some Doctor Who stamps next year! They look great, I'm going to stock up on stamps for the rest of my lifetime :D


----------



## Blastoise Fortooate

thank you, Dannichu, for finding the thread, i was not looking forward to it



Spoiler: Christmas Special



Yes, glad to get an infusion of Who! I can't say I like the new TARDIS, it's too _pointy _(how r u gonna catch people init, Doctor?), but I do suppose that it reflects the Doctors MATURE and DEPRESSED and WORLD-WEARY new SELF, so... At least he's kind of over that, now.

Vastra was cool, although I originally felt that the 'one word!' thing was going to be pretentious as all hell. It redeemed itself when Oswin turned the 'words' thing back around, though! Speaking of her, I'm a bit miffed that River didn't get any mention when she kissed the Doctor. At all. Not even 'I'm _married!_' or something.


----------



## opaltiger

> * Oswin dying in every timeline could get very old very quickly.


I got the feeling from the coming soon that that wasn't going to be the case.


----------



## Butterfree

Spoiler: The Snowmen



I wanted him to take Oswin along as a companion, for the season finale to force him to erase her memory using that memory-worm thingy (come on! It was the perfect setup!) and send her off to where he knows she's going to end up becoming a Dalek and seeing him again while being incredibly heartbroken about it. But oh well.


----------



## Lady Grimdour

I like the setup with the "Doctor's Friends", where people pop up as secondary companions for an episode, while obviously in their own little adventures. Shows that the Doctor's friends and companions don't just mope around, they actually do stuff when he's not around.


----------



## Noctowl

Not too fond of this, I am afraid. Maybe I am still miffed about Amy and Rory's departure. Or maybe I just hate Oswin or whoever she is. I do wish that potato man would be the companion instead.  

Also, kissing the doctor made me mad. He's married,for goodness sake!

Oh, and the quick transaction to moody ass to his old self again made no sense. I would have prefered it if it was a gradual transaction as the episode went on. I also thought the villian was going to be a foil to the doctor, but that never seemed to come up.


----------



## Kinova

I liked it! I wasn't very impressed with quite a bit of series six/first half of seven, but I did enjoy this one. It's cool that they're bringing it back to the old series, stylistically - with the shiny pointy TARDIS, the opening sequence etc. Kind of excited for Clara's storyline but also kind of wish we had a companion without a ~mysterious existence~ for a bit. Jenna-Louise Coleman seems pretty ace though.

And they should reboot Torchwood in Victorian England with Vashtra and Jenny and Strax. Please.


----------



## Dannichu

opaltiger said:


> I got the feeling from the coming soon that that wasn't going to be the case.


Even so, I'm getting a bit tired of people dying and magically coming back (in whatever form) in Doctor Who. Maybe I'm being grumpy, but it makes the fact that the Doctor does it (and how it's a blessing and a curse) less special. Perhaps it's rose (hahahaha) tinted glasses, but back in RTD's Who, people actually stayed dead*, and those deaths made for the most memorable, emotional parts of the series.

*Captain Jack, obviously, notwithstanding.


----------



## Murkrow

Dannichu said:


> Spoiler: Christmaaaaaaaaas
> 
> 
> 
> PROS:
> * I love the new TARDIS interior, especially all the Gallrefreyan symbols all over the place
> * I also really liked the new opening credits. They were being delightfully psychedelic and I said 'it feels like a badly-CGI'd version of Matt Smith's face is about to appear' AND THEN IT DID.
> 
> CONS:
> * Doctor Who? Doctor Who? Doctor Who? Arc words were much more fun when they were subtle.





Grimdour the Worldbreaker said:


> I like the setup with the "Doctor's Friends", where people pop up as secondary companions for an episode, while obviously in their own little adventures. Shows that the Doctor's friends and companions don't just mope around, they actually do stuff when he's not around.


These!



Spoiler: I'm still using the hide tag to cater to the silly people who use mobile devices



Not sure what I think of the Oswin dying thing. It could lead to some interesting things, but I'd prefer a continuous companion who dies unexpectedly. Classic Who did it right. Am I right in remembering there was a Patrick Troughton episode where he had quite a few companions and they all died?

Not that I want people to die of course! I was just getting tired of the companions losing their memory or getting stuck in another universe and stuff. The way they Ponds left was quite good, but if they go overboard with killing a bunch of Oswins it might be even more bothersome, since it wouldn't be a surprise and the only question would be how rather than if.




Also, not related to the episode at all, I found a couple of cards from a Doctor Who card game. I remember I used to have a whole pack but I haven't a clue where the other hundred or so of them are. Even if I do find the rest of the cards I'd want the instructions because judging by these descriptions, the game seems quite complicated.


----------



## Murkrow

So I liked today's episode!



Spoiler: spoiler



I really prefer episodes that can stand on their own over episodes that have to do with overarching plots. I find the most recent last in the series episodes have been the weaker ones. Maybe this one will have something to do with the rest of the series but it can stand by itself just fine.

It's how I like Doctor Who. Mysterious villain, doing villainous things, doing things to people that would be hard to cover up but they manage anyway. Also since when was the BBC allowed to mention jammy dodgers and burger king and stuff? I thought product placement wasn't allowed?

Also lol, as if anyone there was using myspace and bebo.


----------



## Phantom

Why did I click on this thread?

Someone tell me WHY DID I CLICK THIS THREAD?!

More importantly why do I have this terrible weakness when it comes to resisting spoilers?

I've heard... mixed reactions so far. I've heard people are liking the new companion, but the episode was 'eh'. It hasn't aired _in my country_ yet. So I won't be able to see it until about 2AM. Dedication. I has it. 

Also, heard possible confirmation that David Tennant and Billie Piper will be somehow involved in the 50th celebrations? Not sure.


----------



## Murkrow

Spoiler: spoiler for the rings of whatchamacallit



I didn't care much for this episode. The resolution was a bit contrived. There's a limit to how believable it can be when sentimental things destroy the monster of the week. Also the monster itself wasn't well presented. Was its motivation just that it was hungry, because that's not particularly exciting.


----------



## RespectTheBlade

too late to join? I started watching who about november last year and have since then seen all of new who and have loved every second of it.
(well, except for every single one of my favorite characters dying, but.)

and currently I am saddened by my lack of BBC America :c


----------



## Phantom

Joiiiiin us, JOIN US.

Welcome to the club RTB.

So... a few thoughts. 



Spoiler: thoughts



Looking back...

Thoughts on series seven thus far... I am not impressed in the slightest. Amy and Rory's leaving was... I felt it was rather half done and the episode moved far too quickly and the plot behind it all was sloppily written. 

In fact this whole series has been sub par, and I really expected more of Moffat than this. I just hope this is a small hiccup. What I really hope is that whatever happens, the 50th Anniversary is going to be done well, and in a tasteful manner that won't be ripping out the stll beating hearts of die hard fans who have been watching this show for decades, and even for the new fans who have been watching it for nearly another decade in its reboot. 

Also, there are no words to express my rage at the end of season 6. None at all. It almost ruined the show for me. If Moffat can't pull his head out of his ass and fix it they will have lost a die hard fan and simply have gained someone that watches the show. 

I know it sounds harsh. But erasing him from history? And then the clearing of him from the Dalek's memory was just... It just felt like all the tension was just cleaned up with a Mr. Clean Magic Eraser. LOOK BAD STUFF THE END OF THE WORLD AND STUFF.  *POOF* WHOOPS I WAS JUST KIDDING.

Though I will admit, Clara/Oswin's character does interest me, but that's all I am seriously interested anymore. (And where the fuck is River Song? Just because Amy and Rory decided to leave the show we lose one of the most interesting timey whimey characters? FTS)


----------



## Vipera Magnifica

Spoiler: Rings of Akhaten reactions



This episode had quite a few problems. Really, the ending was very hard to believe, even for Doctor Who. And that's ignoring the question _how does the solar system survive after its star just imploded on itself?_

And uhh... How exactly does a leaf hold more significance than ALL of the doctors memories and emotions? That seemed a little bit too cheesy.

I'm still pretty neutral about Clara though because I still don't really know her story, but I do hope it's done well.


----------



## Butterfree

I guess I'm alone in really liking The Rings of Akhaten. The plot wasn't the greatest, no, but it was sweet, the little girl was adorable and it may just be me but I thought she was unusually good as a child actress, and I enjoyed the Ten-era feel of it. And also Eleven was pretty delightful in it - the barely-suppressed joy of being able to show a companion the universe and experience their wonder, insisting you don't run away after all the various running he's been doing, facing down the monster and talking about everything he remembers and everything he's lost and the pain and emotion of that scene. Plus I really, really like Oswin for some reason and she got to both be sweet and caring with the girl and to go and save the Doctor at the end.


----------



## Blastoise Fortooate

I also liked it!  I mean, the actual conflict of the episode was kind of sloppy and too loose for my liking, but the setting itself and the charactery bits were quite nice. I especially enjoyed seeing all these bystander aliens after what feels like seasons and seasons of only seeing villainous aliens or recurring-character aliens.


----------



## Vipera Magnifica

Alright, so I have a question for all you Whovians.

For those of you who have watched Classic Who, are there any stand-alone episodes that you would recommend? As much as I'd like to watch them in chronological order, most classic episodes were lost from the archives. So, from what _is_ available on Netflix and Amazon Prime, are there any episodes I can watch that would give me a pretty good taste of the classic series?


----------



## Murkrow

Vanilla Mongoose said:


> Alright, so I have a question for all you Whovians.
> 
> For those of you who have watched Classic Who, are there any stand-alone episodes that you would recommend? As much as I'd like to watch them in chronological order, most classic episodes were lost from the archives. So, from what _is_ available on Netflix and Amazon Prime, are there any episodes I can watch that would give me a pretty good taste of the classic series?


What do you mean by "stand-alone"? Since classic who had a lot of serials that went on for loads of episodes. Like one of the best ones "Genesis of the Daleks" is six episodes long.
If you don't mind super long stories like that, a lot of them are stand-alone up to the point that the end sometimes had them land somewhere as a teaser for the next one. So in that sense all of the episodes sort of lead on from one another, but not in any important way.

Not sure what's on Netflix though since it doesn't let you see what's available unless you're subscribed (also what's available is different in different countries)


----------



## Vipera Magnifica

Oh no, I mean serials, not episodes. Anyway, I can just check and tell you what's on Netflix.

They have:
The Aztecs
The Mind Robber
Spearhead from Space
The Three Doctors
The Carnival of Monsters
The Green Death
The Ark in Space
Pyramids of Mars
Horror of Fang Rock
The Ribos Operation
The Pirate Planet
The Androids of Tara
The Power of Kroll
The City of Death
The Leisure Hive
The Visitation
The Caves of Androzani
The Curse of Fenric

Amazon Prime also has:
The Tomb of the Cybermen
The Robots of Death
The Talons of Weng-Chiang
The Armageddon Factor
Earthshock
Vengeance on Varos
Ghost Light

Unless you know of a way to access a more complete collection of serials?

EDIT: On YouTube, I also found:
The Awakening
The Twin Dilemma
Full Circle
State of Decay
The Masque of Mandragora
The Sensorites
Planet of the Spiders


----------



## Murkrow

I can't say I've seen many of those. Pyramids of Mars I think was quite good. Ark in Space I remember seeing but I'm not sure if I liked it or if it was just because it's one of the ones Genesis of the Daleks is right next to that's making me think that.


----------



## opaltiger

If you can find it (I think I watched it on youtube at some point in the past), The Time Warrior is worth watching simply because it introduces Sarah Jane Smith.


----------



## Murkrow

I take it that since nobody else has posted about the latest episode, they everyone found it as meh as I did? It certainly wasn't bad, I just don't see it being particularly memorable.


----------



## Dragon

I liked it D: I thought the episode pulled off the claustrophobic, sealed off from the outside world feel pretty well. Also it was tense and Skaldak (sp?) seemed like an actual threat for a bit? And I like how Clara reacted to the submarine crew dying realistically, not the usual 'oh........ person dead let's the monster' we usually get.

But yeah, the way the TARDIS disappeared, and the way the Ice Warriors just beamed up the sub and saved everyone at the end felt pretty cheap. I dunno, overall I liked that episode? It was pretty fun imo.


----------



## Murkrow

Nobody seems to post about episodes unless I do first it seems >:(

I did like last week's episode but to be honest I think that was mainly because it just better than the previous two episodes. I like TARDIS-based episodes so it had that going for it.

Today's episode though was _really_ good. 



Spoiler: new episode spoiler



Good story, fun characters, funny jokes, good hook at the end. The silliest thing about it was being able to stand next to a launching rocket and not get vaporised (and firing a gun next to it wasn't that smart either). I like how they sort of gave enough information for us to work out that Mr. Sweet was a parasite before the reveal, but not enough that we'd work it out that long before the reveal. I definilty expected it to be a good episode as well since the preview from last well looked really promising. Modern Who works best when there's some sort of creepy conspiracy done by individuals under alien influence if you ask me.
Definitely my favourite episode this series (or half of the series, I think) so far.



Also you guys have no idea how difficult it is to live near a lot of the places where it is filmed. What with all the interruptions from my dad being all "That's [location], isn't it?!", and then it's really distracting because that's all you can think about while you're watching it! I noticed next week's episode looks like it was filmed at Castell Coch.


----------



## Phantom

Murkrow said:


> Nobody seems to post about episodes unless I do first it seems >:(


I haven't seen the last two, now three, episodes, since the Ice Warrior. So I haven't been able to contribute much.


----------



## Dannichu

THOMAS THOMAS OH MY GOD

Yeah, I really liked this week's episode. I've been a little disappointed with this series (or half-series, or whatever), mostly I think because the episodes feel a little rushed at the end. Hide was good, I thought. But this is the best one so far, I think. I was cautiously excited about it, because while I love Vastra and Jenny, I also don't think that Jenny's actress is very good, but she was great in this episode. Which was also really very scary.


----------



## shy ♡

I guess I'm alone in really disliking this lastest episode. 



Spoiler: stuff



It was just _super cheesy_ and felt childish (like it was trying to speak to children) and the plot made even less sense than usual in a 'I'm not interested in this' sorta way (like why didn't anyone notice Jenny breaking into the door RIGHT NEXT TO the woman having a fit. Literally. Right next to her. I mean at least tell the woman to move somewhere else before she causes a distraction otherwise she is just bringing the attention RIGHT TO YOU uhg really??). In the beginning it looked like everything might have a sorta cool mystery to it but... nope....... it was just some weird-ass bad looking leech thing attached to her _chest_. :| what even. And why the name Mr. Sweets am I missing something? I mean is it just cause it sucks on people? Eh. Also the whole reveal with the daughter was lackluster - I thought that would tie into the plot more but it just made her more of a victim?? instead of explaining any of the weird shenanigans that were going on. And the mom's reasoning was nonexistent. ('I'm craaaaazy!!' or something??? which you can only get away with if you think your audience is stupid or doesn't care, or if you at least give some... reason... for the 'crazy' which they didn't.)



Overall I'm just super disappoint with this episode and this season in general. :v


----------



## Dannichu

I really, really liked this episode. The mood was great, and all the characters were all cool (the kids weren't the best actors, true), and the setting was atmospheric, and the Cybermen were actually scary. Matt Smith had some fantastic scenes (boy, can that man act), and the only thing is I couldn't take the chess scenes seriously because I recently watched this.


----------



## Murkrow

Spoiler: The Doctor's Name



Usually I don't like how usually in the last of the series episodes there's some sort of plot device, and today's "The Doctor's time steam" was no different, but at least it was made somewhat clear what it could do before the resolution that used it was reached. It explained what's up with Clara about as well as I think they could so eh, I dunno.
I don't think the baddies were that good, but they themselves were mainly there to get the plot going rather than actually being a threat I guess.

As for the ending, what does everyone else think? Is he a future Doctor? Was he a regeneration before the first? Was he the first before he got that old? I noticed that when Clara was montaging seeing the different Doctors, I don't think there was any 8. Maybe he's an older version of 8, since that would have been the one that blew up Gallifrey, which could easily be what they were talking about at the end.



Oh, and I guess I'll talk about last week's too!
It was okay. At first I didn't like the Cybermen looked but then I realised that they actually look more like the original Cybermen than ever before. Still not sure if I like that though. I found it silly that they could get electrocuted or shot, upgrade and be fine. Don't the writers know that one of them has to die from being electrocuted/shot and then the rest upgrade? Gosh!


----------



## RespectTheBlade

Spoiler: The Name Of The Doctor



I thought the episode was really well done. The Whispermen were actually genuinely scary at some points, especially when the one jumped through river's image. And I loved the incorporation of Clara into everything that the doctor has ever done, and the call backs to every Doctor. A couple things I'm still wondering though: What state is clara in? what incarnation of The Doctor is John Hurt playing? did river's data ghost die, or is she still in the library's mainframe?

All in all, a wonderful episode, but THE CLIFFHANGER GAHHH


----------



## opaltiger

Spoiler: the finale



Well. For my money that was the best series ending since... oh, I don't know, possibly of the entire new series. I was absolutely certain they weren't going to actually show us who it was in the final scene and then I recognised John Hurt from his voice and nearly fell off my chair. _John Hurt_, guys!


----------



## Phantom

To be safe, I've known about waaay to many spoilers for the ending. I knew about Hurt forever.

I agree. Best series finale I think in new Who.

I would comment more but I was squee-ing too much to get that much into details. Though I got the gist of it.


----------



## LadyJirachu

I hope I get to see doctor who someday the series always sounded pretty awesome to me :D


----------



## Phantom

Well folks, this is happening. (Note a tad spoilery)

 I'm a bit sad that this is happening. Eleven has grown on me. He hasn't been my favorite, but he was still the Doctor. That's all that matters, is that I associate him as the Doctor. We all sort of saw this coming, but now it's out.


----------



## Karousever

Well I have not officially joined this but I would like to now, if that's alright with you guys. 

I love love love love love the Eleventh Doctor. So much. He's so wonderfully whimsical. 
Then probably Ten :P

Companions: Amy, if Jack counts then Jack, if not then Clara, then Martha...I wasn't particularly fond of Donna, but I didn't dislike her.

I know I obviously seem so...into the Eleventh Doctor stuff. It's true, I am. My first series were 5 and 6, then I went back and watched 1-4, then I watched 7. 

So the Eleventh Doctor was my first Doctor, and maybe that's why I love him so much. 

So yup that's me ^_^


----------



## Murkrow

Let's discuss!


----------



## Karousever

Well, I personally have never seen Peter Capaldi (that I'm aware of), so I don't know...but I googled him to see what he looks like, and I guess he could _look_ the part...

That's all I have to say, really.


----------



## RespectTheBlade

Well, new doctor is exciting no matter who it is, but  Peter Capaldi looks like he'll be amazing! I like that the new doctor will be substantially older than he has been for all of new who, and I can't wait to see where he'll take the role. Still not ginger though... 

Also I'm gonna go and rewatch the fires of pompeii and look at his acting to get a bit of a taste, though it probably won't tell much into how he'll do as the doctor. I'm excited!


----------



## opaltiger

_I love Peter Capaldi this is the best day ever._



RespectTheBlade said:


> Well, new doctor is exciting no matter who it is, but  Peter Capaldi looks like he'll be amazing! I like that the new doctor will be substantially older than he has been for all of new who, and I can't wait to see where he'll take the role. Still not ginger though...
> 
> Also I'm gonna go and rewatch the fires of pompeii and look at his acting to get a bit of a taste, though it probably won't tell much into how he'll do as the doctor. I'm excited!


Watch Children of Earth. He single handedly makes it the best part of Torchwood (if not the Whoniverse in general.)


----------



## Phantom

opaltiger said:


> Watch Children of Earth. He single handedly makes it the best part of Torchwood (if not the Whoniverse in general.)


Seconded. 

I wanted to avoid all news about who was the new Doctor, I wanted it to be a surprise. 

Then my best friend texted me, "What do you think of this Peter Capaldi dude being the doctor" 

_ASDFGHJKL, DAMN IT._


----------



## Karousever

Phantom said:


> Then my best friend texted me, "What do you think of this Peter Capaldi dude being the doctor"
> 
> _ASDFGHJKL, DAMN IT._


This exact thing happened to me.


----------



## Phantom

I'm just surprised that an actor that has been in Doctor Who before was chosen to be _the Doctor_. Yes, it's happened before with companions, Karen/Amy and Martha/Freema and even Gwen. But they became characters and they were able to write off the similarities, i.e. that was Martha's cousin who worked in Torchwood 1, not her. 

But this guy was a pretty important character in his episode on Who, plus he was a very very plot relevant character in Children of the Earth, so I wonder what are they going to do with that? Torchwood happens in the same universe as Who, so how are they going to answer how one of the best characters in Torchwood looks/is the Doctor?

All the props to him though, he's a damn good actor, but it just leaves me wondering a bit. 

Plus a lot of people are already saying that thank god the Tenth Doctor went back and saved the Twelfth from Pompeii.

EDIT: Just did a little research, apparently I missed that Colin Baker (6) was on the show before becoming the Doctor. SO it has happened before, but it's a different time where everyone is taking the show at face value... at least 'real world' wise.


----------



## Murkrow

opaltiger said:


> Watch Children of Earth. He single handedly makes it the best part of Torchwood (if not the Whoniverse in general.)


Yeah, definitely. Whenever someone mentions Children of Earth, his character is almost always the first thing I remember about it.


I haven't seen him in much else that I remember, just that the Fires of Pompeii and those two episodes of the Vicar of Dibley, but despite not having seen him in much else I can tell he's a great actor. He's definitely going to be amazing as the Doctor.



Phantom said:


> Plus a lot of people are already saying that thank god the Tenth Doctor went back and saved the Twelfth from Pompeii.


He loses his memory, gets saved by himself, invents the word volcano and then regains his memory.


----------



## RespectTheBlade

opaltiger said:


> Watch Children of Earth. He single handedly makes it the best part of Torchwood (if not the Whoniverse in general.)


I'm currently nowhere close to Children Of Earth in torchwood, so I guess i've got a lot of watching to do. But yeah, I heard he was in that too, I'll check it out when I get to it.



Phantom said:


> Plus a lot of people are already saying that thank god the Tenth Doctor went back and saved the Twelfth from Pompeii.



I've seen a fan theory that says he went back just so he could see Donna again.


----------



## Tailsy

I don't watch Doctor Who but as a pleased Scottish person: if you want to see Peter Capaldi being ace, watch _The Thick of It_ and the tie-in movie _In The Loop_. Even just the movie. He's great at being a completely awful person *w* I love him


----------



## I liek Squirtles

I just got into the fandom, and now I feel all fuzzy inside that I saw the Pompeii episode today. Maybe he had a watch, like the Master and the Doctor had?


----------



## RespectTheBlade

Also Capaldi is just like Tennant in that he's a lifelong fan of Who (and Scottish!) and Tennant was a brilliant Doctor.


----------



## Flora

I am highly intrigued by how they're gonna do the whole "BUT HE WAS IN POMPEIIIIIII" thing (but like what if they redo the episode from 12's POV WHAT IF DAVID TENNANT AND CATHERINE TATE RETURN) as well as the obligatory "but what's he gonna be LIKE"

He won me over as soon as he said he missed the call. I'm excited.



Murkrow said:


> He loses his memory, gets saved by himself, invents the word volcano and then regains his memory.


This made me giggle. On the other hand...



RespectTheBlade said:


> I've seen a fan theory that says he went back just so he could see Donna again.


...bad fandom no OW MY HEART


----------



## Phantom

Flora said:


> I am highly intrigued by how they're gonna do the whole "BUT HE WAS IN POMPEIIIIIII" thing (but like what if they redo the episode from 12's POV WHAT IF DAVID TENNANT AND CATHERINE TATE RETURN) as well as the obligatory "but what's he gonna be LIKE"


His role in Torchwood was crucial to the story, and pretty freaking epic. How are they going to explain that?


----------



## Flora

Phantom said:


> His role in Torchwood was crucial to the story, and pretty freaking epic. How are they going to explain that?


Magic Probably as coincidence, most likely. or they might not address it


----------



## opaltiger

Er, yeah. I really don't see why people think this is a problem. So he's played other people in the Whoniverse. Who cares? They weren't the same person. Why isn't "oh they just happen to look kind of similar" enough of a handwave?


----------



## Murkrow

opaltiger said:


> Er, yeah. I really don't see why people think this is a problem. So he's played other people in the Whoniverse. Who cares? They weren't the same person. Why isn't "oh they just happen to look kind of similar" enough of a handwave?


Spatial genetic multiplicity means an echo and repetition of physical traits across a Time Rift.


----------



## RespectTheBlade

Murkrow said:


> Spatial genetic multiplicity means an echo and repetition of physical traits across a Time Rift.


Also he was in close enough proximity to the tardis in that episode (not to mention inside of it) that it should account for something. Amy and Rory were able to conceive a half-timelord baby just by spending their wedding night on it, so a doctor looking like one of the people throughout history that he's saved isn't the most far-fetched thing i've ever heard of.


----------



## Murkrow

What does everyone think of the rumours about lost episodes they've found?


----------



## kyeugh

Not really a Whovian, but wanted to get started on the franchise since it's obviously pretty great.  Is it necessary to start at the beginning?

Also, found it worth mentioning that the author of the Inheritance Cycle is a Whovian and makes a reference to the Doctor.


----------



## Murkrow

Qvalador said:


> Not really a Whovian, but wanted to get started on the franchise since it's obviously pretty great.  Is it necessary to start at the beginning?


If by "beginning" you mean the very first episode from 1963, it's definitely not necessary. Especially due to missing episodes.

If you mean the 2005 modern series first episode, also not necessary but is a much better starting point for someone just getting into the show.
The show does have continuity but most modern series episodes are standalone and can be watched on their own quite easily.

Classic episodes come in serial format, so have collections of 2-6 episodes that go together to make one long story.

sfdebris does a good video on where to start and goes into a few things about the show you might want to know.


----------



## SonicScrewdriverTaco

-joins in from nowhere-
Has anyone ever heard of Tennantface? It's hilarious.


----------



## Murkrow

Everyone seen the new trailer yet? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mkq8pnvsnQg



SonicScrewdriverTaco said:


> -joins in from nowhere-
> Has anyone ever heard of Tennantface? It's hilarious.


I prefer Jackface (from Lost) myself


----------



## RespectTheBlade

Murkrow said:


> Everyone seen the new trailer yet? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mkq8pnvsnQg


YES IT IS AMAZING (Also there is a second trailer here with a ton of things everyone should see including  ten and eleven comparing screwdrivers and more hilarity 

I am so, so excited about this and the trailers have only made it worse. I managed to get tickets to a screening of the anniversary at one of the illinois showings, and I cannot wait. I want to find out where John Hurt comes into all of this, and the dynamic between ten and eleven and what role Rose is going to play and I could not be more hyped about this

a bit of analysis though" 



Spoiler



Rose seems to at least in part be the Bad Wolf for some of the anniversary. Given she has universe-changing powers, i'm kinda curious to see where they'll go with it. Or more importantly, how she got said powers back if they were absorbed from her by nine. 

and second, in the first few seconds of both trailers, there is Gallifrey. And Dalek spaceships. And a large battle. I think _we are actually going to see the time war!_


----------



## Phantom

I have my theory that Ten isn't really Ten, but Handy.


----------



## Murkrow

I really hate the idea of Handy so I'm honestly hoping they don't pull that.


----------



## RespectTheBlade

(i've always called him TenTwo but i see where you got Handy)

I don't think it's TenTwo, mainly because in the second trailer there's a shot  of the Ten in question throwing the tardis switch,  but then again anything could happen.

Personally I think that the Ten we're going to see is pre-Doomsday.


----------



## Murkrow

Get excited!


----------



## Kinova

I wasn't hugely optimistic (I wasn't overly impressed with series seven, which makes me sad) but the trailers are good and HOO BOY did that prequel get me excited. I am also pleased because I'm seeing it at the cinema with a bunch of friends so even if it does turn out to be Not Great, we'll probably still have fun. But I remain cautiously optimistic!

(Also on a slightly pluggy but relevant note, I've been making a Doctor Who short film type thing with the aforementioned friends! The trailer is here if you're interested asdfghjkl I'm so excited about it even though there's still a lot to do in the next six days ahh)


----------



## RespectTheBlade

oh yeah for anyone who wants to see them who hasn't yet for some reason:

The Night Of The Doctor: Mini-episode that serves as a prequel to The Day Of The Doctor

Children In Need 2013- a clip from the anniversary


----------



## Murkrow

Really good! I'm sure a lot of people are disappointed due to the hype but as far as Doctor Who episodes in general go, I think it was great!



Spoiler: spoilers for 50th anniversary episode



They tied everything together pretty much the best way they could. I mean, it needed to be something big about the Time War and what they did by pretty much saving Gallifrey in such a way that it's up in the air and it might not be saved after all, it's perfect! It doesn't change much and yet it's the epic sort of event the 50th anniversary needed!

I wonder if references to the Doctors from now on will add one to their number or if they'll just refer to John Hurt as War Doctor or Doctor 8.5

I also like how they introduced the "John Hurt needs to to a calculation but it'll take forever but 11 has already finished it" thing with the sonic screwdrivers which they didn't need, and then used it later for saving Gallifrey.

I also take it that since 10 was messing about with Liz I that in his timeline it takes place just before he lands on the Ood planet? ("just before" meaning between that episode and the one before it, he probably did a lots of other stuff in that time)

Also maybe the Bad Wolf megaweapon or whatever it's called always works like that and pretty much always comes up with convoluted plans to save as many people as possible!
Also the Tom Baker at the end was a later Doctor, right?

I didn't particularly like Tom Baker scarf girl. It's great that the writers want to put in a character that the audience will relate to but there's a fine line between that and just putting a Doctor Who fan IN the episode.


Spoiler: rambling off topic



You know how for Star Trek's 30th anniversary they made a Deep Space 9/Original Series crossover episode that everyone loved? Well that was only one of their ideas. One idea was to have the DS9 crew visit a planet that has been saved by Kirk & crew and had since developed a culture where everyone dressed like the Enterprise crew and held conventions and stuff. I can only imagine the reason they didn't do that was because it would have been terrible.

The reason Reg Barclay worked in The Next Generation as a relatable-to-the-audience character was because he wasn't perfect in every way *cough*Wesley*cough*, if anything he was a total loser. Maybe I wouldn't have minded the girl in the scarf in this episode if it weren't for the fact that she helped save the day. I can accept either someone being an insert of a Who fan OR helping the save the day. Having both is just obvious pandering to the audience.


Also the Zygon said something about how she was jealous of her "pretty sister"? I guess that's just another instance of only pretty people are allowed on TV but if you put a pair of glasses on them and give them an inhaler, it apparently makes them unattractive regardless of whether that's true at all.

I sort of like that the Zygon part of the story wasn't actually entirely resolved. Presumably they reached an agreement otherwise Earth won't be in the later series. Or maybe since scarf girl (did she have a name?) knew who had the inhaler she worked out which was which and something developed from there.

Also Peter Capaldi made an appearance! Pretty cool! I do wonder if since "all" 13 appeared there that that means they won't make an excuse for more regenerations and just end the series next time he dies?



I was very glad that since it was a simulcast that there weren't adverts.


----------



## Vipera Magnifica

Well, I'm sad because I just watched Time of the Doctor. And I know I'm going to miss Matt Smith; he was a fantastic Doctor. (Not sure if this even qualifies as a spoiler at this point)

I didn't like the episode as much as its counterparts in the "X of the Doctor" trilogy, but Matt did a really good job in this episode. Say what you want about Moffat, but Matt Smith has always played his role perfectly.

I'm surprised at how inactive this thread is right now.


----------



## Murkrow

Vanilla Mongoose said:


> I'm surprised at how inactive this thread is right now.


Yeah, me too. Especially with the 50th anniversary as well.

Matt Smith was a good Doctor but I'm a bit disappointed with Clara's character so far. I hope they develop her some more before she leaves because we still don't know much about her at all.


----------



## Phantom

Really? No posts in this thread? For shame, guys!

 New Doctor premiering tomorrow, aren't you psyched?


----------



## sv_01

Well, this is kinda off topic, but I have a fan theory. You know how the Doctor runs a lot? It might have been caused by 



Spoiler: end of Season 3



him running from the Untempered Schism


. But that isn't all. I think that 



Spoiler: The Name Of The Doctor



Clara, while being intertwined with his timeline, appeared in the thing and gave him his first RYCBAR. It was her who defined him as a runner


.


----------



## Phantom

sv_01 said:


> Well, this is kinda off topic, but I have a fan theory. You know how the Doctor runs a lot? It might have been caused by
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler: end of Season 3
> 
> 
> 
> him running from the Untempered Schism
> 
> 
> . But that isn't all. I think that
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler: The Name Of The Doctor
> 
> 
> 
> Clara, while being intertwined with his timeline, appeared in the thing and gave him his first RYCBAR. It was her who defined him as a runner
> 
> 
> .





Spoiler:  Wait, what the hell are you talking about.



Or, you know, things could be constantly chasing him. It's sort of been a thing throughout the series that the Doctor tends to run, _a lot_. It's not really something spoilerific. Well, I've been thinking on my own about RYCBAR, and putting it together with the last anagram we had, YANA, and if you combine them, "Run you clever boy and remember, you are not alone." And with the results of the 50th... pretty snazzy eh?


----------



## Murkrow

I hope they develop Clara's character some more. She's been in the show for a quite a while now but she still feels like "the new one"


----------



## RosesBones

Phantom said:


> Spoiler:  Wait, what the hell are you talking about.
> 
> 
> 
> Or, you know, things could be constantly chasing him. It's sort of been a thing throughout the series that the Doctor tends to run, _a lot_. It's not really something spoilerific. Well, I've been thinking on my own about RYCBAR, and putting it together with the last anagram we had, YANA, and if you combine them, "Run you clever boy and remember, you are not alone." And with the results of the 50th... pretty snazzy eh?


My new headcanon is that this was completely intentional and not at all a coincidence. It's just too perfect.


----------



## Murkrow

Spoiler: latest episode



A bit too much comedy (mostly the slaptick) for my liking. The boing sound effect when they did the mind-meld was one thing but then they went on to do the bit when the Doctor was hanging upside down in a tree and then Vastra has that remote car key and that scene where Strax gave Clara the bucket of water to drink. Him calling her "boy" is getting a bit old as well. A lot of it felt like filler.

When I looked back the dinosaur didn't seem like it needed to be there at all except for the spectacle but I suppose there needed to be a high-profile killing for the robots to get the Doctor's attention.

But enough complaining. The rest of the episode was good. It looked at how the Doctor changed and his speech about the Ship of Theseus that was totally not supposed to be a reference to his own regeneration.

At the end when that woman woke up the robot in the promised lands - I'm guessing she's the one who put the ad in the newspaper. Vastra saying "by the goddess" is most likely meant to be her being her, but I'm not dismissing the possibility that the promised land woman is somehow connected to that. (Since she has an umbrella, I'll be calling her Mary Poppins until I find out where her name actually is)


----------



## Phantom

Murkrow said:


> Spoiler: latest episode
> 
> 
> 
> A bit too much comedy (mostly the slaptick) for my liking. The boing sound effect when they did the mind-meld was one thing but then they went on to do the bit when the Doctor was hanging upside down in a tree and then Vastra has that remote car key and that scene where Strax gave Clara the bucket of water to drink. Him calling her "boy" is getting a bit old as well. A lot of it felt like filler.
> 
> When I looked back the dinosaur didn't seem like it needed to be there at all except for the spectacle but I suppose there needed to be a high-profile killing for the robots to get the Doctor's attention.
> 
> But enough complaining. The rest of the episode was good. It looked at how the Doctor changed and his speech about the Ship of Theseus that was totally not supposed to be a reference to his own regeneration.
> 
> At the end when that woman woke up the robot in the promised lands - I'm guessing she's the one who put the ad in the newspaper. Vastra saying "by the goddess" is most likely meant to be her being her, but I'm not dismissing the possibility that the promised land woman is somehow connected to that. (Since she has an umbrella, I'll be calling her Mary Poppins until I find out where her name actually is)





Spoiler: We shall see, I guess



I felt that it was just really... indifferent. I get the confusion post-regen, but I felt it was dragged out a bit long. 

I got pretty annoyed by what they are doing with Vastra and Jenny. I mean, really? Yes, woohoo, interspecies lesbian couple ftw! But do you need to shove it down our throats? Yes, we get it. How many times do they have to mention they're married? Less is more, Moffat. 

I liked Matt Smith showing up though, and the phone call and everything at the end. That was nice, show us a bit of normality after a strange new face and all. Wibbly wobbly timey wimey and all. Still wondering how he did it since isn't it like crossing his own... bah, forget it. 

Judging by the red undercoat, I guess he'll be taking after the Third a lot, eh? I mean it's the only logical conclusion. 

We shall see.


----------



## shy ♡

Spoiler: stuff



I agree with Phantom re: marriage mentions. I felt like every time you saw Vastra and Jenny they were obligated to mention they were married, as if we'd forget between scenes. We're not 2 years old, we can remember. 

What _really_ bothered me with the ep was when the Doctor abandoned Clara. I have this big abandonment 'issue' where I hate when characters abandon others and it just felt _really really wrong_ even if it was a 'test' or whatever. Writing-wise, it was clearly meant to show Clara's 'skills' by proving she could get out of the situation on her own - but I feel like that makes the Doctor weaker. He couldn't do that himself, without risking Clara's life? Usually he's the one to talk them out of the situation without tossing his companion aside. It just REALLY BOTHERED ME. :|

Also yes, the dinosaur was completely unnecessary. Clearly they're adding big-shiny-things for American audience, including slapstick stuff, because that's what Moffat thinks Americans like.


----------



## Butterfree

Spoiler: Deep Breath



Deep Breath was actually the most I've genuinely loved a Doctor Who episode in a long time. Meh on the dinosaur/slapstick/hey-look-we-have-lesbians-and-they're-married-remember-the-married-lesbians, but it hit all of my Doctor Who buttons with all the discussion of the Doctor wearing youthful faces in the hope that people will like and accept him more that way, and his Ship of Theseus rant, and him insisting murder isn't in his basic programming only to later quietly admit he was lying before dropping the robot he kind of identifies with to be horribly impaled, and Eleven calling to tell Clara to stay with Twelve because he's terrified and really needs her even if he's not showing it. And I really appreciated the little "The Doctor/companion relationship will be actually platonic this time around, thank you very much." And I liked the multiple scenes of Clara being terrified out of her wits and doing a damn good job dealing with it.

Also, the Doctor's horror at having Peter Capaldi's face and ranting that his eyebrows want to secede from his face was the most hilarious.



I think I'm going to like Twelve, if this episode was any indication.


----------



## Phantom

Butterfree said:


> Spoiler: Deep Breath
> 
> 
> 
> Also, the Doctor's horror at having Peter Capaldi's face and ranting that his eyebrows want to secede from his face was the most hilarious.


That bit made me actually laugh quite a bit. I have high hopes for Twelve.


----------



## Murkrow

Spoiler: Into the Dalek



I don't really have much to say about this one. I liked it, but I can't really point out specific things that I did like. I know I'm always pointing out bad things but I don't want it to sound like a bad thing when I say the reason I liked it was because I didn't dislike it like I do with recent Doctor Who episodes.

I do like the direction they're taking with Peter Capaldi, it seems like "Am I good?" is going to be a recurring theme this series. Clara seems to be getting some characterisation how too.

The only nitpick big enough to mention: If Dalek guns can kill other Daleks, why don't the good guys use them themselves?

EDIT: Also I do really liked the few scenes of the Daleks on the Dalek ship. They were only about five seconds long but they really felt like Doctor Who, they reminded me of the classic era.


----------



## Phantom

Serious? Almost the whole season's passing us by here guys. 

 Any opinions? Theories?

 Myself, I'm not quite... into Twelve like I thought I'd be with the first episode. I just can't shake that 'new Doctor' feel with him. It's like he doesn't have a personality, or they are pushing his personality way too much. What do you people think?


----------



## RosesBones

I feel like I spend way too much time wanting to punch Twelve in the throat. He's just _such_ a jerk a lot of the time.


----------



## Murkrow

I like how mean 12 has been. It was pretty much the only redeeming thing about the episode on the moon. If you view it as an episode to establish the Doctor as no longer thinking that everyone is special, and that he'll let other people make decisions that affect them etc, then it was an effective episode. Other than that I didn't like it. Too much making stuff up that doesn't make any sense.




Spoiler: Most recent episode (the one with the forest in London)



Was _okay_. A bit of a coincidence that the girl who could see the glowy things happened to be in Clara's school. And I'm not quite sure what the connection was between her sister going missing and her starting to be able to see them.

There need to be either fewer episodes with children in them, or they need to find better child actors. At least they weren't as bad as the "please save me from the monsters" boy, though.


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