# Kingmaker Mafia III



## Eifie (May 13, 2014)

All right! I think I got all the PMs out okay, but I may have screwed up, what with the forum making me wait 60 seconds between clicking send on each tab and all. If you didn't get a role PM or I messed up in some other way, please let me know (preferably over PM and not in this thread).

Here's the original thread with some rules and stuff. I'll try to repeat anything pertinent here. (Note that I forgot how to math when listing the roles at the end of that thread and mistakenly listed more vanilla innocents than there should have been.)

*The Setup*

3 Mean Guys (mafia)
1 Kingmaker (innocent)
1 Head Mason (innocent)
1 Hero (innocent)
4 Just Plain Nice Guys (innocent)

*Rule Things*

I'll announce the roles of dead players upon death.
Only the mafia are allowed to communicate out of the thread. Members of the mason group know each other's identities, but *are not* allowed to communicate out-of-thread.
All night actions are *mandatory*. Actions not sent in will be randomized, perhaps extremely unforgivingly (e.g. mafia having the chance to kill other mafia) because lack of night actions makes me oh-so-sad.
Any player who claims Kingmaker, whether they are actually Kingmaker or not, will be modkilled.
The day ends *immediately* after the King chooses who to execute. Please don't post after that!

Feel free to ask if you're unclear on anything, although I won't be able to edit this post.

*48 hours for night actions*.


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## Eifie (May 14, 2014)

I love when people send in their night actions! I love you all!!! Okay, there are three night actions in this game, but you know.

The GM weeps quietly in a corner as the body of an interesting game mechanic drops into the middle of the town.

*Alligates is dead. She was the Head Mason.*

But all is not lost, for a glowing crown descends from the heavens to alight softly upon *DarkAura*'s head!

*You have 48 hours to convince DarkAura who to execute.*


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## Wargle (May 14, 2014)

Well that ruins a third of the fun


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## Vipera Magnifica (May 14, 2014)

So... either the mean mafia people tried killing Alligates, or she tried recruiting one of them.

Either way, there goes our Head Mason :/


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## I liek Squirtles (May 14, 2014)

I don't have info, but I have a doubt. If the Kingmaker is killed, does this revert to a normal mafia game?


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## Vipera Magnifica (May 14, 2014)

Eifie said:
			
		

> If the Kingmaker is killed, a random Just Plain Nice Person will be chosen to become the new Kingmaker.


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## Eifie (May 14, 2014)

What VM said. Also, a couple of clarifications in case anybody is wondering:


If the Kingmaker dies during the night, their choices for that night still hold. The new Kingmaker begins sending in actions the following night.
If the Kingmaker dies and there are no Just Plain Nice Guys living, but the Hero is still alive, the Hero will become the new Kingmaker. (The Head Mason is the absolute last person I would want to make Kingmaker because of how OP that would be, so at least that's not something I have to figure out this game.)

And one last thing that I totally forgot in the rules earlier, *the Kingmaker will be identified as a Just Plain Nice Guy upon death*.


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## Vipera Magnifica (May 14, 2014)

Is the Hero identified as a Hero upon death, or as a Just Plain Nice Guy?


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## Eifie (May 14, 2014)

The Hero will still be a Hero. The Kingmaker is just kind of shy.


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## Flora (May 14, 2014)

RIP interesting game mechanic Alligates. That sucks.

Ugh, I keep forgetting how difficult day 1 is because of _no leads_. Especially in this game...


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## DarkAura (May 14, 2014)

Oh, looks like I'm king? Okay then!

...I-I'm kind of scared to vote someone off, seeing as we have nothing to go on atm. Guess you guys should... Try convincing me otherwise?


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## Superbird (May 15, 2014)

Vanilla Mongoose said:


> So... either the mean mafia people tried killing Alligates, or she tried recruiting one of them.


I would say the latter is probably more likely, as the Head Mason probably had about a 2 in 9 chance of hitting a mafia (I'll assume that there are 2 mafia in this 10-person game; if there are 3, it becomes much more likely) and considering how good the inspectors' Night 1 luck has been on this forum lately, I wouldn't be surprised if Alligates was just unlucky. 

The other thing is that if I was mafia (which I must stress I'm not), Alligates wouldn't be the one I would kill N0, so I think Alligates probably tried to convert them and thus redirected their kill.

The problem: that leaves us with no leads unless someone can figure out who Alligates targeted?

...wait. If it wasn't an accidental Mafia conversion, then the normal Mason who Alligates converted last night should still be around and, most likely, would know that they were chosen. Is there a mason who was chosen by Alligates last night? If so, we have confirmation that the Mafia chose explicitly to kill Alligates. Otherwise, I'd assume it was an accident.


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## Light (May 15, 2014)

Vanilla Mongoose said:


> So... either the mean mafia people tried killing Alligates, or she tried recruiting one of them.


We know it was the former, because everyone sent in their night actions. It's highly unlikely the mafia would elect not to kill someone.

I would be suspicious of Superbird right about now, but he's made mistakes before, so.



> Either way, there goes our Head Mason :/


There should have maybe been a back-up for this kind of day 1 fringe case.


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## Light (May 15, 2014)

Also, if I were being proactive, I would look back at the previous game threads. What's the precedent for handling day 1? Most mafia games just end up abstaining.


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## Wargle (May 15, 2014)

Light said:


> We know it was the former, because everyone sent in their night actions. It's highly unlikely the mafia would elect not to kill someone.
> 
> I would be suspicious of Superbird right about now, but he's made mistakes before, so.
> 
> ...


Uh, throwing myself off as suspicious but... what? Why does making a theory, even if there's a small chance it could be wrong be suspicious? It is possible the mafia chose no kill, it's always a good way to throw off the town


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## Wargle (May 15, 2014)

I realise now that's more accusatory and rude than intended. Sorry.

I meant to say Superbird hasn't done anything to garner real suspicion imo


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## Superbird (May 15, 2014)

Wait, wasn't it established that if the head mason tried to recruit a mafia member, the mafia's kill that night would be cancelled and they would kill the head mason instead? That's what I was basing my assumptions on because that's what I remember. Please tell me if that's wrong.


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## Superbird (May 15, 2014)

...yeah, from the signup thread.



> If the Head Mason attempts to recruit a Mean Mafia Person, the Head Mason will be killed instead of the actual target of the Mean Mafia People that night, because the Mean Mafia People just can't stand all this niceness bullshit.


I'm just assuming that it was an accident and that the mafia probably meant to kill someone else but couldn't because Alligates was unlucky in who they targetted.


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## Eifie (May 15, 2014)

Superbird is correct, and I'd also just like to remind you all of the rules I put in the first post, which state that there are three mafia members and that all night actions are mandatory (i.e. no abstaining from killing, recruiting, or king making). Carry on!


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## Vipera Magnifica (May 15, 2014)

Superbird said:


> I would say the latter is probably more likely, as the Head Mason probably had about a 2 in 9 chance of hitting a mafia (I'll assume that there are 2 mafia in this 10-person game; if there are 3, it becomes much more likely)


Eifie has stated that there are 3 mafia. 

Probability of Alligates recruiting a mafia member: 1 in 3
Probability of mafia targeting Alligates: 1 in 7

I'm not sure if either scenario makes much of a difference to us, but the former is somewhat more likely. 

As for what Light said, I don't really see how anything Superbird has said so far makes him particularly suspicious. Care to elaborate?


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## DarkAura (May 15, 2014)

Okay, so apparently, I can't abstain (Eifie said the rest of the nice villagers thirst for blood), but I don't want to vote anyone when there's no definite proof! So unless you guys really want Corphish-kabob 2: The Search for More Money, we'll need to discuss even more and see who's the most suspicious!


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## Vipera Magnifica (May 15, 2014)

What we need is a foolproof method of catching our criminals by using logic and reason. 

NOSE GOES

*touches nose*


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## Light (May 15, 2014)

Superbird said:


> Wait, wasn't it established that if the head mason tried to recruit a mafia member, the mafia's kill that night would be cancelled and they would kill the head mason instead? That's what I was basing my assumptions on because that's what I remember. Please tell me if that's wrong.


x.x

Okay, whoops.



Vanilla Mongoose said:


> As for what Light said, I don't really see how anything Superbird has said so far makes him particularly suspicious. Care to elaborate?


It was a couple of things, but I don't remember what they were. I might actually lynch myself that this point.


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## Light (May 15, 2014)

Superbird said:


> The other thing is that if I was mafia (which I must stress I'm not)


This particular line probably didn't help.


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## DarkAura (May 15, 2014)

Uh, you do realize that you can't lynch yourself, right Light? You guys have to convince _me_ on who to execute. And I'm kinda getting the feeling that you _want_ to be executed. So this brings me to a few theories:

>You're genuinely sorry for your mistake and, knowing that a lynch must happen, you're willing to die.

>You _want_ me to lynch you because you're the hero.

>This is reverse psychology and you're mafia/hero/that-really-important-role-no-one-can-roleclaim and you're trying to get me to _not_ vote for you.

So? Which is it?


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## Light (May 15, 2014)

I think it's pretty clear at this point that this is just one of those days for me.

(I haven't been able to sleep the last few nights okay)


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## DarkAura (May 15, 2014)

But that still doesn't answer my theories.


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## Mai (May 15, 2014)

DarkAura said:


> Uh, you do realize that you can't lynch yourself, right Light? You guys have to convince _me_ on who to execute. And I'm kinda getting the feeling that you _want_ to be executed. So this brings me to a few theories:
> 
> >You're genuinely sorry for your mistake and, knowing that a lynch must happen, you're willing to die.
> 
> ...


... I would guess it's more of a joke? No roles /win/ by dying - the hero doesn't want to die, either, they're innocent. That first sounds just unlikely in general, and the second is digging pretty deep.

The most suspicious thing I've seen here is the "and I must stress I'm innocent" line from Superbird, but. He's been useful enough today.

Since we have to lynch, blazhy hasn't spoken, but she's been online, I think (though it's exam season, so).


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## DarkAura (May 15, 2014)

I guess I didn't really see it as a joke, ha ha.

But, and correct me if I'm wrong, isn't the hero virtually lynch-proof? If I execute the hero, _I'll_ die, and I kind of like living. Sorry if I'm being a bit too thorough, really, but I want to make sure nothing is as suspicious as it seems.

I'll wait and see what Blazhy has to say, if anything.


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## Mai (May 15, 2014)

DarkAura said:


> I guess I didn't really see it as a joke, ha ha.
> 
> But, and correct me if I'm wrong, isn't the hero virtually lynch-proof? If I execute the hero, _I'll_ die, and I kind of like living. Sorry if I'm being a bit too thorough, really, but I want to make sure nothing is as suspicious as it seems.
> 
> I'll wait and see what Blazhy has to say, if anything.


Lynch-proof, yes, but not death-proof - there are no doctors, so the mafia can just go ahead and kill hero as soon as they're revealed. And Light would have to be hugely suspicious of you to execute that gambit, I think. It just doesn't make much sense to me.


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## DarkAura (May 15, 2014)

No doctors? Huh, how did I miss that? Okay, well, I see what you mean.


Looks like blazhy's offline. Should I execute her, or is there anyone else you guys can think of?


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## blazheirio889 (May 15, 2014)

I just didn't say anything because there wasn't anything to be said, really. :P But I'm here, and I also like being alive.


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## DarkAura (May 15, 2014)

So I guess there's no inactive lynching.

Okay, I'm going to just randy-lynch it using the rng. Any objections?


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## blazheirio889 (May 15, 2014)

Iii guess not? :/


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## DarkAura (May 15, 2014)

I know, I know, randy-lynching is a really sloppy move, but the day is drawing to an end and I _have_ to execute someone.

Okay, from 1 to 10 (if I get a 7 or 8, I'll just reroll), and I got...

9. Sorry, Wargle.

*Execute: Wargle*


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## Eifie (May 15, 2014)

BAM. The villagers thirst for Wargle's blood! Caught up in their bloodlust of niceness, they like, kill her or something. Too bad there wasn't a mean bone in her body.

*Wargle is dead. She was a Just Plain Nice Guy.*

*48 hours for night actions.*


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## Eifie (May 16, 2014)

Um... there are all of two night actions... let's just go...

Blah blah *Superbird is dead. He was a Just Plain Nice Guy*.

Better step it up, King *Vanilla Mongoose*! *You have 48 hours to execute someone*.


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## Light (May 16, 2014)

Everyone needs to say something today.

So, my sleep schedule is whack, but I just woke up from a good 12 hours. I was a bit suspicious of Mai for sweeping that weird Superbird statement under the rug (it would have been better than a randylynch), but Superbird flipping innocent kind of makes that a moot point.

(This is how it works IRL mafia guys. You voice your suspicions and then people discuss them back and forth. Around here people seem afraid to accuse other people, and that's only good for the mafia.)


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## I liek Squirtles (May 17, 2014)

Food for thought: our original kingmaker is possibly dead. I have suspicion that Superbird was the role-that-must-not-be-named because of the whole (and I must stress that I'm not) issue. 

To get the ball rolling, I'll start by voicing my suspicions for you, Light. The whole sleep schedule thing can act as a cover even when it's true. You brought up the Superbird quote to try to lynch him, especially with the lack of leads in day one. Pouncing on that bit of text can easily be passed off as day one jitters.


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## Vipera Magnifica (May 17, 2014)

_why me_

Okay so at this point, there are:

3 mafia
1 hero
1 kingmaker
2 nice guys

I could leave this up to the rng and still have pretty good odds of offing a mafia, but I think it's better if I hear from everyone first.

Honestly, given this set-up, there's not much "logic" involved. It's all based on gut feelings towards other players posts. It's not ideal for me, but I suppose I'll just have to deal with it for now.


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## Light (May 17, 2014)

I liek Squirtles said:


> To get the ball rolling, I'll start by voicing my suspicions for you, Light. The whole sleep schedule thing can act as a cover even when it's true. You brought up the Superbird quote to try to lynch him, especially with the lack of leads in day one. Pouncing on that bit of text can easily be passed off as day one jitters.


It's understandable that you would, but I think you guys can let it rest for now. I'm trying to get a discussion going, and that makes me the most pro-town person at the moment.

Right now, I'm highly suspicious of anyone who isn't talking.



Vanilla Mongoose said:


> Honestly, given this set-up, there's not much "logic" involved. It's all based on gut feelings towards other players posts. It's not ideal for me, but I suppose I'll just have to deal with it for now.


It's how classical mafia games work, and it's what can make them so mind-gamey. It makes it really difficult that we're not in the same room to pick up emotional cues, but I'd really like to see it more in games around here.


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## Light (May 17, 2014)

Mai, you're usually pretty participatory.

Got anything to say?


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## Mai (May 17, 2014)

Light said:


> Mai, you're usually pretty participatory.
> 
> Got anything to say?


Sorry, the lack of real logic in this game pretty much resulted in me shutting up :V Though I suppose finding out the mafia can only be done efficiently if people talk.

Vaguely agreeing with ILS in that your accusations were suspicious - it's a lot harder/less effective to get emotional cues from behind a computer screen, etc., so it's not really ideal.

Wasn't a fan in the way DarkAura ran things as king, in general: thought the theories were ... pressing too hard in a nonsensical way, didn't contribute much otherwise, randylynched at the last minute (wasn't online to naysay, unfortunately). In that vein, blazhy wasn't very effective in convincing me otherwise... though you may conclude that same thing for me otherwise, I don't know.

Still, the most inactive people have been Flora, blazhy, and DarkAura, and assuming activity ==> innocence and VM included, there we have our mafia (remember: kings can be mafia)??? Not exactly comfortable with putting a full blanket this is it, but.


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## DarkAura (May 17, 2014)

Hey, I was the first one as king and I had absolutely _no clue_ how to be one besides just executing. I kept on thinking "oh who do I execute", " what if they don't want me to lynch so-and-so and one of them becomes king next phase and execute me off in a bloodthirsty thirst???" This wasn't entirely rational, but can you blame me? 

I know, I really could've done better, and I really am sorry, but we had nothing to go on besides word of mouth, and I had to execute someone. It just seemed like the best option at the time.


and I was pretty much at a dance the entire day, most of which was setting it up. Plus the fact that my internet is still semi-limited, I haven't had much of a chance to actually post. That's pretty much why I was inactive.


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## Vipera Magnifica (May 17, 2014)

Mai said:


> Sorry, the lack of real logic in this game pretty much resulted in me shutting up :V Though I suppose finding out the mafia can only be done efficiently if people talk.
> 
> Vaguely agreeing with ILS in that your accusations were suspicious - it's a lot harder/less effective to get emotional cues from behind a computer screen, etc., so it's not really ideal.


Yeah, even if this is how a "traditional" set-up works,  it's too much of a guessing game when you can't read each others emotional cues. That's why forum mafia is designed to rely more on logos than pathos. But when just about all the innocents have the same role, their claims are impossible to pick apart.



Mai said:


> Wasn't a fan in the way DarkAura ran things as king, in general: thought the theories were ... pressing too hard in a nonsensical way, didn't contribute much otherwise, randylynched at the last minute (wasn't online to naysay, unfortunately). In that vein, blazhy wasn't very effective in convincing me otherwise... though you may conclude that same thing for me otherwise, I don't know.
> 
> Still, the most inactive people have been Flora, blazhy, and DarkAura, and assuming activity ==> innocence and VM included, there we have our mafia (remember: kings can be mafia)??? Not exactly comfortable with putting a full blanket this is it, but.


Has Flora posted at all yet? I mean... she doesn't post much in the games she participates in, regardless of alignment. But still... maybe it would be a good idea to lynch her?

blazhy... hasn't been very active in this game, but is fairly active in the pokechoice mafia game. That's really not much reason for suspicion, given there is little to talk about in this game, but yeah, still a possibility...

I can't really blame DarkAura for wanting to randomize it. There was very little to go off of on day one, and even if she lynched a townie, there was a 2/3 chance of that happening anyway. But her being mafia is still quite possible. Well, it's still possible for anyone, really.

Light has kind of said some vaguely suspicious stuff. But even if he was mafia, I don't think he would just shut up and not say anything. I've seen a bit of his playing style, and he participates fairly actively whether town or mafia. DarkAura brought up the possibility that he is hero baiting the king to lynch him, but that's a _pretty bold move_ unless he had serious reason for suspecting the king. Does anyone... have thoughts on this?

I'm still not sure who to execute at this point, but it's probably one of either Flora, blazhy, or Light. Mai and ILS don't seem very suspicious.


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## Vipera Magnifica (May 17, 2014)

DarkAura said:


> and I was pretty much at a dance the entire day, most of which was setting it up. Plus the fact that my internet is still semi-limited, I haven't had much of a chance to actually post. That's pretty much why I was inactive.


Okay, so I guess you just ninja'd my post and all, but this isn't a particularly convincing excuse. Maybe not as suspicious as Light's whole sleep schedule thing, but still.


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## Mai (May 17, 2014)

Vanilla Mongoose said:


> Yeah, even if this is how a "traditional" set-up works,  it's too much of a guessing game when you can't read each others emotional cues. That's why forum mafia is designed to rely more on logos than pathos. But when just about all the innocents have the same role, their claims are impossible to pick apart.
> 
> 
> Has Flora posted at all yet? I mean... she doesn't post much in the games she participates in, regardless of alignment. But still... maybe it would be a good idea to lynch her?
> ...


And there's even a little roleclaim restriction, too! Fun.



Flora said:


> RIP interesting game mechanic Alligates. That sucks.
> 
> Ugh, I keep forgetting how difficult day 1 is because of _no leads_. Especially in this game...


Yeah, Flora is pretty inactive regardless of status. :V But maybe.

I guess we should just calling in people to give their input? (Blazhy, come here and say something.)

Yeah, I suppose so on that. I don't believe she's mafia for lynching an innocent, but I'm not really convinced of her innocence, you know?

For Light... it's on and off. I don't think at this point he should be the first to lynch, but I don't think he should be at the bottom of the list either. The hero thing seems really unlikely, so if he's innocent he's almost certainly a vanilla townie, therefore not as much harm there - but he did kickstart the speaking, I suppose. So.


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## Flora (May 17, 2014)

Vanilla Mongoose said:


> Has Flora posted at all yet? I mean... she doesn't post much in the games she participates in, regardless of alignment. But still... maybe it would be a good idea to lynch her?


Mai quoted my one post, so yeah, have posted, but it was before any real action happened.

And yeah, I do tend to be inactive, but in this case it was actually because I was occupied all of Thursday! My sister graduated and thus. Couldn't do anything that day.

I wish I had more to say on this, other than agreeing that logic is _really hard_ in simple internet mafia, but alas.


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## Light (May 17, 2014)

Eifie said:


> Better step it up, King *Vanilla Mongoose*! *You have 48 hours to execute someone*.


This seems to indicate a couple things.

First, we have to execute a mafia today or it's game over. Second, it seems to hint at VM's innocent alignment.


I'm really not a fan of blazhy at this point, but I want to hear her speak.


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## Vipera Magnifica (May 18, 2014)

Well, if she's not going to speak, I might as well go for it. I have a pretty good feeling blazhy is mafia anyway. 

*Execute blazheirio889*


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## blazheirio889 (May 18, 2014)

Similar problems to the rest of you; it's hard to do internet mafia without interesting roles, and well pretty much the only role that would help us already died, so. :| There isn't too much to say.

Since there are 3 mafia and 4 townies left, yeah, if we don't execute a mafia member, we're done for. That was already clear without Eifie's message. And I'm not sure how Eifie's post seems to hint at VM's innocent alignment? I hardly think a GM would give hints like that, and I can't see it myself anyway... 

Light is the only one who seems to be lynchable, perhaps, but I dunno. While the sleep schedule thing can be a flimsy excuse, I can definitely say that it does muddle you up, and he's been the one kickstarting discussion, which is vital. So. And I don't blame DarkAura for randlynching, her odds were pretty good anyway (and I sorta vouched for randlynching too, so of course I wouldn't blame her for it :P). As for Flora, well, inactive lynch won't really help us any more than random lynching will at this stage.


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## blazheirio889 (May 18, 2014)

... what but I was just making a post TTmTT


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## Eifie (May 18, 2014)

Damn. Uh, since there's still a lot of time left in the day and blazhy was posting at the same time I could let that one slide if you want to, VM.

By the way, the game doesn't automatically end when there's a mafia majority since that doesn't mean that the mafia have control of the lynching. It is theoretically possible, if the town is lucky, to make a comback from that scenario.


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## blazheirio889 (May 18, 2014)

... right. Then since our odds of hitting a mafia member are pretty good, we should probably just keep trying to lynch them off until loss/victory happens.

Iii... don't really have much else to say, really. I'm not really getting any notably suspicious vibes from anyone and I suck at discerning emotion over the internet anyway. So I guess the next most inactive person (that would be ILS, if my memory serves me correctly) should say something?


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## Light (May 18, 2014)

I'm still a bit suspicious of blazhy, for the simple reason that her post seemed more designed to muddle things than provide leads.


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## blazheirio889 (May 18, 2014)

If I was mafia, I'd probably try to focus suspicion on someone I knew wasn't, right? And there are two sorta-candidates for that (you and DarkAura, though DarkAura not quite as much). I did muddle stuff, sure, but that's more because I don't think the leads we have right now are very solid at all. Unfortunately I also have no other leads to provide.

Suspicious or not, we do have a lot of time left and I think we should use it by calling people out and asking them to talk, instead of ending the day prematurely by executing anyone.


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## Light (May 18, 2014)

I don't really know what you would do, but muddling things is a legitimate scum strat. I don't know what kind of leads you're waiting for in a game like this, could you clarify?

I agree that we should use our time, and I want ILS to say something, but I'm still not clear on your reason for thinking I'm the most suspicious person at the moment. You guys can go look at my post times; they were crazy weird.


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## blazheirio889 (May 18, 2014)

It's not like I'm trying to muddle things on purpose, it just happened because I'm reluctant to focus on the leads we have right now because they're really flimsy at best. Of course, that attitude in this sort of game, where information isn't forthcoming, might not be the best attitude. But still, focusing on current leads sort of closes us off to others that may come along. I'm not exactly /waiting/ for leads rather than /hoping/ for them, and in a game like this the only way we'll get them is by making people talk.

To be fair I don't exactly know your time zone, so I can't say for sure if your post times are crazy weird. If it's the same as mine (I posted this at around 11:40am), then they're... a bit odd (2:30am and 8:30am or so?) but not super duper odd. Light, I don't think you're very suspicious, it's just that everyone else seems less suspicious.


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## Light (May 18, 2014)

Thanks for clarifying. My time zone is American Central (there is a TCoD location project somewhere where you can verify this), so about an hour off from yours (making my posts 1:30 and 7:30 in the same morning). We seem to have mutually crossed with our suspicions, so I guess it's up to others to throw in their thoughts, or nominate someone else for the chopping block.


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## Eifie (May 18, 2014)

Because they are _so nice_, the bloodthirsty townspeople are willing to give the king *another 24 hours* to execute someone if he needs them.


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## Vipera Magnifica (May 18, 2014)

Hrm... awkward situation.

I might change my decision but the only two people talking right now are Light and blazhy, neither of whom I particularly trust.

There's not a whole lot of time left in the day (4 hours at this point) but I don't want to stifle discussion either. After all, we need whatever precious "information" we can get in a game like this. 

I'm somewhat busy today so I can't guarantee that I'll be on the forums this evening, so I suppose what I'll do is tell the GM to *Auto-Execute blazheirio889 at the end of the day phase*, unless I'm convinced to do otherwise.


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## Vipera Magnifica (May 18, 2014)

Eifie said:


> Because they are _so nice_, the bloodthirsty townspeople are willing to give the king *another 24 hours* to execute someone if he needs them.


GOD. DAMN. NINJA-POSTING. 

It's becoming a serious problem in this game.

It doesn't help that my obsessive compulsive tendencies make it take like 30 minutes for me to write a simple post.


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## blazheirio889 (May 18, 2014)

VM, is there any particular reason why you don't trust me, besides the fact that I was pretty inactive before being called out (and I've already addressed why that's the case)?


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## Vipera Magnifica (May 19, 2014)

blazheirio889 said:


> VM, is there any particular reason why you don't trust me, besides the fact that I was pretty inactive before being called out (and I've already addressed why that's the case)?


By addressing why that's the case, do you mean saying that there isn't much to say? Because although that may be true, encouraging discussion can only help the town. Players that don't speak until they are accused should raise some red flags with the town, and in your case, you have pretty much been leading the discussion in the PokeChoice mafia.

I'll admit I don't have any solid proof you are mafia (Such a thing is pretty hard to come by in such a setup), but if I eliminate those least likely to be mafia, the odds of _you_ being mafia significantly increase.

Light is still extremely suspicious to me, but if I change my mind now and turn out to be wrong then I'm going to be pretty pissed off that I didn't trust my initial judgment. I think it's extremely likely that either you or Light are mafia, but I don't think you both are.

Well, the anticipation is killing me at this point. It's been well over 48 hours, and it seems like no one is posting at this point. So, I will *execute blazhy for real this time.* Sorry if I'm wrong :/


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## Eifie (May 19, 2014)

Unable to restrain themselves any longer, the bloodthirsty nice people pile upon blazhy in droves, suffocating her with niceness.

*blazheirio889 is dead. She was a Just Plain Nice Guy*.

*48 hours for night actions.* (But there are still only two of them.)


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## Eifie (May 21, 2014)

Blah blah blah...

*Mai is dead. They were a Just Plain Nice Guy.*

Banish those unworthy of the title of Nice Guy, *I liek Squirtles*!* You all have *fourty-eight hours to convince ILS to execute someone*.

*This is just me blabbering, and not meant to hint at ILS's alignment.


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## Light (May 21, 2014)

What's left to say?

*holds up lightningrod*


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## Eifie (May 21, 2014)

Um, I actually think I'm gonna... postpone this until the day in PokeChoice Mafia ends, yeah? Go back to sleep, everyone.


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## Mai (May 21, 2014)

Eifie said:


> Um, I actually think I'm gonna... postpone this until the day in PokeChoice Mafia ends, yeah? Go back to sleep, everyone.


... Does this mean I'm temporarily alive again? I mean. It probably won't matter. But.


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## Eifie (May 21, 2014)

Sure, have a peaceful living sleep. Dream your last dreams of nice people and nice things.


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## Eifie (May 23, 2014)

Eifie said:


> Blah blah blah...
> 
> *Mai is dead. They were a Just Plain Nice Guy.*
> 
> ...


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## DarkAura (May 23, 2014)

Okay, so...

There are three mafia left, so that leaves a hero and a kingmaker, assuming the kingmaker hasn't died prior to this and a new one has been assigned, and assuming that alignment doesn't factor into being a kingmaker. So we have these options and theories:

1) I and another person are innocent, with the other person being the hero. The other three are mafia. Honestly, this could be anyone. I'm kind of leaning towards Flora and Light being mafia, given how Light's been suspicious and Flora's been generally inactive. This isn't that credible a lead, given that my claim really can't be factored into a game like this, and that I've been just as suspicious as those two.

2)VM and ILS are innocent, the rest are mafia.

3) Flora and Light are innocent, the rest are mafia.

4) VM and Flora are innocent, the rest are mafia.

5) ILS and Light are innocent, the rest are mafia.

Now, seeing as these theories really can't be verified atm, I really don't know what we should do.


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## Light (May 24, 2014)

Those... aren't all the permutations, DarkAura.

It's amusing that you would list out suspects under the assumption that you yourself are mafia, but we already knew you were.

Would you mafia guys please just pick a target and get this over with?


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## DarkAura (May 24, 2014)

...yes they are? In a straightforward sense, of course.

Well, yes, Light. I'm going by theories, regardless of what I actually am, because I know that my word just isn't enough. But I guess I kinda averted that, given the scenarios I gave where I would be mafia to be more straightforward than the first one.

Honestly, I _really_ am leaning towards the fact that you and Flora are mafia, with the other being ILS or VM. Unless I'm horribly wrong and that one of you is the hero, but hey, at least that'd mean that your hero powers would activate and off a mafia. Either that, or _ILS_ is the hero, so he'd have no reason in hesitating in executing one of us.

or maybe ILS is bodyguard???


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## Light (May 24, 2014)

DarkAura said:


> ...yes they are? In a straightforward sense, of course.


I don't know what you mean "in a straightforward sense." I was saying that with 5 players, there are 5!/3! = 20 possible combinations, and you listed only 5.

Doesn't matter, game's about done. Given the surviving roles I'm not seeing any possible way town can win...



Spoiler: Detailed Logic



Case 1: Mafia is king today.
-Best possible result: mafia execute hero.
-Hero dies at night, tomorrow mafia get to be king again.
-Mafia win

Case 2: Hero is king today.
-Best possible result: hero executes mafia
-Mafia must get kingship tomorrow.
-Best possible result after that: mafia nightkill Just Plain Nice Guy, then attempt to execute Hero.
-1 mafia, 1 hero; nightphase.
-Remaining mafia nightkills hero.
-Mafia win.


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## Light (May 24, 2014)

*5!/3! was the formula for when order matters. Order doesn't matter, so there are actually 4 + 3 + 2 + 1 = 10 combinations.


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## Light (May 24, 2014)

A more elegant way of explaining this is, since mafia can only die during the day and townies die every night, the best scenarios lead to alternating losses for town and mafia until just 1 mafia remains, unless the mafia somehow forget to send in a kill.

So hurry up and execute the person you think is the hero.


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## DarkAura (May 24, 2014)

There are varying degrees of logic in your cases, but none more than the second one.

But first, the first one. Maybe I'm just reading it wrong, but you're acting on the assumption that _everyone but you_ is mafia, when we still have two townies left, leaving three mafia members. We still have you and Flora left to be kings, and I highly doubt that _both_ of you are innocent (Well, not so much Flora, since her only crime is being inactive, but like I said, there are only two innocents, and I'm leaning towards either VM or ILS to be the other innocent).

Your second case, I'm confused on. The only two people left who haven't been king are you and Flora, and when you say that mafia _must_ get kingship the following day... well?


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## Light (May 24, 2014)

Don't get bogged down in the "Detailed Logic" section; I realized there were a few cases I left out, so I provided a simpler explanation.


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## Eifie (May 24, 2014)

*20 hours left for day discussion.* (ahem, ILS :p)


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## Eifie (May 25, 2014)

Eh, the innocents had lost anyway. I just went on with the day just in case there was some tiny edge case that I'd missed.

Bored of this lack of bloodshed, the kind villagers finally turn upon their exalted hero and smother him with a fluffy pillow or something.

*I liek Squirtles is dead. He was the Hero.*

And then! VM, DarkAura, and Flora rip off their smiling masks to reveal... frowning, mean faces!!! This sight of pure menace is too much for Light's poor heart, and he drops dead on the spot, before the mean mafia people could even begin to plant mean thoughts into his head.

And so the meanness of *Vanilla Mongoose, DarkAura, and Flora* prevails! Hooray.

Uh, here are the things before I stopped bothering to keep track of things:


```
Vanilla Mongoose - Assassin Leader
Flora - Other Mean Guy (Third)
blazheirio889 - Just Plain Nice Guy
I liek Squirtles - Hero
Mai - Just Plain Nice Guy
Superbird - Just Plain Nice Guy
Alligates - Head Mason
DarkAura - Other Mean Guy (Second)
Wargle - Just Plain Nice Guy
Light - Kingmaker

NIGHT 0

Light bestows the crown on DarkAura, backup I Liek Squirtles.
Alligates attempts to recruit Vanilla Mongoose. :(
Vanilla Mongoose tries to kill Alligates anyway.

Alligates dies.

DAY 1

Wargle is lynched.

NIGHT 1

Light bestows the crown on Vanilla Mongoose, backup Flora. "I really probably need to start taking some sleep medication. :/", he says. Yeah, buddy, you do.
Vanilla Mongoose kills Superbird.

Superbird dies.

DAY 2

blazheirio889 is lynched.

NIGHT 2

Light perceptively bestows the crown on Mai, backup I Liek Squirtles.
Vanilla Mongoose kills Mai.

Mai dies.

DAY 3
```
Those were some lucky mafia, man.


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## Light (May 25, 2014)

Well that explains a lot.

Thanks for hosting, Eifie. I really did enjoy it despite the frustration.


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## Wargle (May 25, 2014)

+1 first day death. Yay.

way to go Light you ruined the game traitor Man, were we unlucky....


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## Vipera Magnifica (May 27, 2014)

yay for flawless mafia victory!

That was a fun game though. Here's the mafia QT in case anyone is interested.


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## Light (May 27, 2014)

Good job, you guys won because you played _so_ well...

(Okay done being snarky. Sign up for my new game guys.)


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