# Gym Leader Choice Pokémafia 2 - Game Thread



## M&F

Night Zero of Tournament Coverage

As a researcher, it is the truth and the ideal way things should be that I seek. This year, as the others, I was asked to participate in the Pokémon World Tournament at Driftveil City -- however, I disagreed. I am content to proceed in this study through a strictly observational approach. Rather than interfere, I will collect data on all of the powerful trainers and breathtaking battles taking place each morning and early afternoon here in our floating arena.

The latent power of Pokémon... what is the best way to bring it out? If possible, I want it to be the trust between Trainers and Pokémon, just as it has always been. That is why I believe that there is no one better to test such a hypothesis than the great Gym Leaders of the world, from Alola to Kalos to Kanto. It is also my pleasure to share the results that I will collect each day with all of the faithful readers of Pokémon Journal.

I look forward to all of you teaching me if I have reached the truth.
-Colress, Researcher, Engineer, and Pokémon Trainer

*48 hours for night actions.*


----------



## RedneckPhoenix

something something oops this isn't scumchat


----------



## M&F

so, I haven't pinged everyone at the start of this, and I guess an unintended consequence is that it seems to be proving difficult for folks with night actions to know who's actually in the game. well, you can all have this straight out of my GM files


----------



## M&F

Day One Pregame Column

You might be wondering why a guy like me is writing Pokémon World Tournament articles for Pokémon Journal. I ain't any kind of Gym Leader, after all... neither did I travel the world, or go all that far in my young journeyin' days. Here's the thing, though: this tournament's still taking place in Driftveil City, and I'm the one who knows this town better than I know the last names of the last three ladies I've been with. I know all the dark corners, back alleys, and seedy undersides... when something happens in this city, I'm the first to know, whether it's a hot upcoming match or a shady dealing.

You see, I'm a heartbreaker... my name... Charles.

Are all of you readers excited for the tournament? It's no Rotation or Triple Battle, but for a lot of trainers, it's kind of a big deal. Too much of a big deal, for some of them... there's always some folks who'll do anything to win, no matter how rotten it is. But hey, keep your eyes on the ring. I'll be in charge of keeping an eye on the backstage... and the ladies.

*No one has died.

48 hours for discussion.*



Spoiler: pingas



@Mawile
@RedneckPhoenix 
@Bluwiikoon 
@Herbe 
@rari_teh 
@Zero Moment 
@Mr. Ultracool
@ミ☆ ᴍyᴜᴍᴀ 
@Vipera Magnifica 
@Stryke 
@Tofu 
@Negrek 
@kokorico 
@Zori 
@bruh moment 
@Hydreigon25 
@JackPK 
@Ysabel


----------



## bruh moment

good news guys
-m


----------



## bruh moment

good news guys
-q


----------



## Negrek

God, I missed Charles.


----------



## Herbe

hi. im cilan. i like cilantro


----------



## Herbe

feed me cilantro


----------



## rari_teh

Hi everyone! Excited to be here.


----------



## RedneckPhoenix

dear anyone who visited me:
i can explain


----------



## Herbe

give me badges and good things will happen


----------



## RedneckPhoenix

mf stands for motherfucker

gave me Intimidate, which means anyone that visits me is told i'm mafia


----------



## RedneckPhoenix

not even just inforoles

some motherfucker gives me a fruit? mf tells them i'm mafia. someone roleblocks me? mf tells them i'm mafia. i get killed? mf tells them i'm mafia


----------



## Mawile

good news guys

i built the nes part of my lego nes


----------



## rari_teh

i’ll take this game as an exciting new opportunity for me to rake in those sweet sweet reaction points ùwú

me entering the 1k club:


----------



## Mawile




----------



## rari_teh

Herbe said:


> give me badges and good things will happen


wrt this i think my role doesn’t have the best badgepower
i mean, it’s good but. it can also be a waste. i recommend you to deposit your badges somewhere else


----------



## RedneckPhoenix

my badge power is literally worthless i think mf has it in for me


----------



## Mawile

RedneckPhoenix said:


> my badge power is literally worthless i think mf has it in for me


mine could be okay if it was in someone else's hands lmao


----------



## Herbe

everybody should be nice to me to gain my favor


----------



## Herbe

i will be a benevolent cilantroman


----------



## Mawile

im have ghosts


----------



## Mawile

Mawile said:


> im have ghosts



here is one (1) ghost to scare you


----------



## RedneckPhoenix

doesn't scare me. normal types bitch


----------



## rari_teh

i’m fairy all through. sylveon’s on their way to kick dragon ass


----------



## bruh moment

must suck to not be a PAIR of gym leaders





-m


----------



## bruh moment

why can't i like my own posts
-q


----------



## rari_teh

bruh moment said:


> why can't i like my own posts
> -q


big hydra moment


----------



## Herbe




----------



## Herbe

everybody guess my role. i will then choose one and commit to the bit for the rest of the game


----------



## bruh moment

Herbe said:


> everybody guess my role. i will then choose one and commit to the bit for the rest of the game


silent game


----------



## Mawile

Herbe said:


> everybody guess my role. i will then choose one and commit to the bit for the rest of the game


mafia head


----------



## bruh moment

Mawile said:


> Herbe said:
> 
> 
> 
> everybody guess my role. i will then choose one and commit to the bit for the rest of the game
> 
> 
> 
> mafia head
Click to expand...

man behind the man?????
-m


----------



## Herbe

i have decided to be the Man behind the Men. all men answer to me. no exceptions


----------



## Herbe

my patience and attention span are all out to lunch lmao


----------



## Zori

good news guys
my badge power is pretty sweet tbh


----------



## Zori

Also obligatory no, I'm not going to participate in the PWT until someone gives Amphy medicine


----------



## Zori

I'm just going to say this from the gate
I'm a *badge-powered Vigilante*
gib badge plox


----------



## Zori

Also, I think we can seriously discuss the lack of a N0 kill, given that this isn't Power Plant


----------



## Ys_

Good news guys
no deaths 


Hervbe said:


> everybody should be nice to me to gain my favor


￼￼I'll be nice to you!


----------



## rari_teh

it’s never too early to post a Tierliste, so here is mine


Spoiler: Tierliste









der Hase
***





die Katze
***





der Hund
***





die Schlange
***





der Bär
***





das Pferd
***





der Esel


----------



## Negrek

How many badges do you need to vig someone?

Presumably role block, alien hit, or kill into protection, as far as the lack of kill goes. MF described this game as "bordering on bastardish," so there could be something fairly wild going on, but unless someone thinks they know something, I don't know if starting from something other than the standard suspects is going to help much.


----------



## Negrek

How many badges do you need to vig someone, *Zori?


----------



## bruh moment

Zori said:


> Also, I think we can seriously discuss the lack of a N0 kill, given that this isn't Power Plant


what do you think about it? i guess i'm kinda like shrug since it's again like, the general possibilities are block/heal/bproof/alien/?no nk submission? (lol) so i don't really know what spec can be done wrt the lack of kill. (though ig if you're a blocker then do your thing again or something idk.)

-m


----------



## bruh moment

(er, i say 'again' because ooctvt)


----------



## Zori

Negrek said:


> How many badges do you need to vig someone?
> 
> Presumably role block, alien hit, or kill into protection, as far as the lack of kill goes. MF described this game as "bordering on bastardish," so there could be something fairly wild going on, but unless someone thinks they know something, I don't know if starting from something other than the standard suspects is going to help much.


I need one badge to vig someone, but there are some limitations that I'm not revealing for now because they'd let mafia cripple me


----------



## bruh moment

rari_teh said:


> it’s never too early to post a Tierliste, so here is mine
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Tierliste
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> der Hase
> ***
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> die Katze
> ***
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> der Hund
> ***
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> die Schlange
> ***
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> der Bär
> ***
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> das Pferd
> ***
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> der Esel


rari what does this mean
-m


----------



## Mawile

other possibility could be something along the lines of my cannoneer from ooctvt (can save up nightkills to use them later)


----------



## rari_teh

bruh moment said:


> rari_teh said:
> 
> 
> 
> it’s never too early to post a Tierliste, so here is mine
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Tierliste
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> der Hase
> ***
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> die Katze
> ***
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> der Hund
> ***
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> die Schlange
> ***
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> der Bär
> ***
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> das Pferd
> ***
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> der Esel
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rari what does this mean
> -m
Click to expand...

’tis naught but a medium-effort lame pun


----------



## Zori

If someone thinks that they definitely stopped the kill (unlikely but still possible), I think they should claim
that way we get 2 confirmed town for a doctor, a lead for a roleblocker, and a bruh for an alien


----------



## bruh moment

Zori said:


> If someone thinks that they definitely stopped the kill (unlikely but still possible), I think they should claim
> that way we get 2 confirmed town for a doctor, a lead for a roleblocker, and a bruh for an alien


disagree, i don't think this makes sense in a role madness setup tbh for basically the same reasons as discussed in ooc. i think they should stay hidden
-m


----------



## rari_teh

Zori said:


> If someone thinks that they definitely stopped the kill (unlikely but still possible), I think they should claim
> that way we get 2 confirmed town for a doctor, a lead for a roleblocker, and a bruh for an alien


no tbh
it’s too early for claiming
if you roleblocked/jailed last Night, please repeat your roleblock/jailing. if there’s no kill toMorrow again then you claim


----------



## bruh moment

bruh moment said:


> for basically the same reasons as discussed in ooc.


imagine finishing your post before sending it
- there is a wide range of reasons that the kill could have gotten stopped, so any one PR doesn't have the greatest chance of knowing if it was their target that saved the kill
-m


----------



## Zori

bruh moment said:


> disagree, i don't think this makes sense in a role madness setup tbh for basically the same reasons as discussed in ooc. i think they should stay hidden
> -m


Despite 3? doctors, I don't think there was a save
idk, I just think we should take the confirmed town instead of trying to get more heals
but it's definitely not surefire in a high power setup


----------



## rari_teh

Zori said:


> bruh moment said:
> 
> 
> 
> disagree, i don't think this makes sense in a role madness setup tbh for basically the same reasons as discussed in ooc. i think they should stay hidden
> -m
> 
> 
> 
> Despite 3? doctors, I don't think there was a save
> idk, I just think we should take the confirmed town instead of trying to get more heals
> but it's definitely not surefire in a high power setup
Click to expand...

i might be jumping the gun here, but i don’t think your line of reasoning is townsided


----------



## Zori

rari_teh said:


> i might be jumping the gun here, but i don’t think your line of reasoning is townsided


I expected about this much when I said it tbh


----------



## bruh moment

Zori said:


> Despite 3? doctors, I don't think there was a save
> idk, I just think we should take the confirmed town instead of trying to get more heals


yeah but redirection & co severely obfuscated things. i actually think ooc was a pretty decent example of why we shouldn't early claim considering what happened on n1 (where tbh2/hydreigon got swapped, jack healed in that pair, but trebek got vigged) and the chances of this yielding confirmed town aren't that high
-m


----------



## Mawile

Zori said:


> Despite 3? doctors, I don't think there was a save


2 and a half

i also feel like d1 is too early to claim in role madness. we also don't know if there's some kind of redirecting role that could have moved the protection/jailing/etc onto the target/killer but that's just me continuing to think of ooctvt



bruh moment said:


> - there is a wide range of reasons that the kill could have gotten stopped, so any one PR doesn't have the greatest chance of knowing if it was their target that saved the kill


also i was going to say something like this but am too distracted by legos and mewt already said it better


----------



## Ys_

Zori said:


> I'm just going to say this from the gate
> I'm a *badge-powered Vigilante*
> gib badge plox


Interesting tbh- both the power and that you decided to reveal it this early


Zori said:


> Also, I think we can seriously discuss the lack of a N0 kill, given that this isn't Power Plant


Lmao. Well, who knows what's in this setup.. It may be too early to tell, even if someone did claim. Also I think it's a good thing that there were no deaths in the sense that whomever died, without previous discussion, wouldn't know who to give badges to and they could accidentally send it to the mafia. Not that that's not a risk anyway, but a day of discussion would help with making a more informed decision


----------



## Mawile

everyone else: Serious Game Thoughts
me: scrolling through the "allister" tag on tumblr, repeatedly pointing at the screen going "look at my boy" with a pile of unbuilt legos in my lap


----------



## bruh moment

Mawile said:


> Serious Game Thoughts


what the fuck are those
-m


----------



## Mawile

haha pagetop


----------



## Mawile

bruh moment said:


> Mawile said:
> 
> 
> 
> Serious Game Thoughts
> 
> 
> 
> what the fuck are those
> -m
Click to expand...

Thoughts, but about the game, and also are Thoughts that contain Content


----------



## JackPK

Herbe said:


> give me badges and good things will happen





rari_teh said:


> Herbe said:
> 
> 
> 
> give me badges and good things will happen
> 
> 
> 
> wrt this i think my role doesn’t have the best badgepower
> i mean, it’s good but. it can also be a waste. i recommend you to deposit your badges somewhere else
Click to expand...




RedneckPhoenix said:


> my badge power is literally worthless i think mf has it in for me


hmm my badge power is like medium usefulness? definitely don't prioritize me to give badges to, but maybe drop one on me if you've already allocated everything you want to allocate and you have one leftover



Zori said:


> rari_teh said:
> 
> 
> 
> i might be jumping the gun here, but i don’t think your line of reasoning is townsided
> 
> 
> 
> I expected about this much when I said it tbh
Click to expand...

I distinctly remember Seshas/Zori mentioning in at least one past game, maybe two, that when they're a wolf they powerwolf hard

idk whether to read this as powerwolfing but it's definitely something to keep in mind


----------



## bruh moment

JackPK said:


> I distinctly remember Seshas/Zori mentioning in at least one past game, maybe two, that when they're a wolf they powerwolf hard
> 
> idk whether to read this as powerwolfing but it's definitely something to keep in mind


tbqh i think i (mewtini) implanted the words "seshas" and "powerwolf" very strongly in the collective consciousness during ooc tbh, it might not have been her who said it - i accidentally beat the association to death. (on the other hand, i guess she wasn't all that far off from playing that way in that game, and i said that because of the mafia.gg one-off i had with her,)

i will say that i am personally kind of inclined to go 'shrug' at her suggesting that for now
-m


----------



## bruh moment

filing it under "thinking emoji" for the time being but i sort of think she'd do it as either alignment
-m


----------



## Zori

new phone who dis


----------



## Mawile

Zori said:


> new phone who dis


the ghosts are on the phone


----------



## Zori

stand by my previous suggestion w/ the (large) caveat that probably noone ds certain they stopped a kill


----------



## Zori

also that ooctvt really isn't a deepwolf game for me given my largest push was on koko


----------



## Zori

Zori said:


> also that ooctvt really isn't a deepwolf game for me given my largest push was on koko


*powerwolf


----------



## bruh moment

Zori said:


> stand by my previous suggestion w/ the (large) caveat that probably noone ds certain they stopped a kill


uh i mean
doesn't that caveat nullify the positives of an early claim 
-m


----------



## bruh moment

and yeah i was sort of misusing the term "powerwolf" there for sure, i guess i just think you went more with the flow (even while giving sort of non-consensus thoughts) in tvt/cats whereas you went more against the grain in ooc in a way that flagged me pretty quickly, and in a manner that iirc was a bit different from tarot even (though granted i was mafia there)

-m


----------



## bruh moment

like contrarian/shade-throwing versus contributory playstyle ig
-m


----------



## Zori

bruh moment said:


> Zori said:
> 
> 
> 
> stand by my previous suggestion w/ the (large) caveat that probably noone ds certain they stopped a kill
> 
> 
> 
> uh i mean
> doesn't that caveat nullify the positives of an early claim
> -m
Click to expand...

I meant claiming to confirm players vs hiding to get more saves
itd be worth it on D1 imo, probably not on later days


----------



## Bluwiikoon

Hi everyone! Excited to be here


----------



## RedneckPhoenix

i'm not


----------



## bruh moment

Bluwiikoon said:


> Hi everyone! Excited to be here


my king arrives.......


RedneckPhoenix said:


> i'm not


wtf. well i'm excited for you to be here. >:C

-m


----------



## Bluwiikoon

No nightkill is fantastic, but I really think trying to get someone to claim healer/roleblocker is counterproductive rn? We gotta keep the powerful town roles safe!!  And we gotta all hydrate so we can think good!


----------



## Bluwiikoon

My cantrip is _Hydration_, I can tell everyone in thread to hydrate and if we are all hydrated then we're all winners


----------



## Bluwiikoon

Speaking of which, I gotta go get a fresh drink and a snack!! I took my insulin and then got distracted


----------



## Zori

auxiliary point being that doctors are mid-tier PRs and cant crank out results like cop or vig


----------



## Zori

w/e doesn't really matter


----------



## Mawile

i would put doctors as Still Pretty Important on my mental tier list of Useful Roles


----------



## bruh moment

i don't even think we should be considering "which PRs are fine to expose" on d1 ಠ_ಠ 
-m


----------



## Zori

bruh moment said:


> i don't even think we should be considering "which PRs are fine to expose" on d1 ಠ_ಠ
> -m


how about badge-charged vigilante


----------



## bruh moment

Zori said:


> how about badge-charged vigilante


what are you asking specifically? what i think of you having claimed? or is this just rhetorical
-m


----------



## Zori

bruh moment said:


> what are you asking specifically? what i think of you having claimed? or is this just rhetorical
> -m


I think this is my cue to bow out of the thread
phone typing slightly annoying anyways


----------



## Ys_

By the way, did anyone visit RNP who could confirm his claim?

Also Zori wouldn't it be in town's best interest to keep doc hidden especially given that they can protect prs like you? Unless you have some Big Plan or galaxy brain play that we're not getting?


----------



## bruh moment

Zori said:


> I think this is my cue to bow out of the thread


er ... i'm sorry if i came off weird/aggressive or something, that wasn't my intention :'D
-m


----------



## Zori

no just that I have stopped communicating clearly


----------



## Bluwiikoon

Zori! Take a break if you need one! We'll be here all Day ^^


----------



## Mawile

i'm currently having fun reading role PMs for the past MFia games


----------



## Mawile

Mawile said:


> i'm currently having fun reading role PMs for the past MFia games


i'm now idly wondering if there's repeats (or near-repeats) of some roles from previous games, since there's a handful of roles that have popped up more than once


----------



## rari_teh

the more i brood about what’s happening the worse i feel about it. i’ll place a vote on *zori* for now and hope she’s not an activated alien.


----------



## Mr. Ultracool

Prepare for trouble...


Spoiler: And make it double!



ggg



It's already been a pretty interesting Day so far, huh?



RedneckPhoenix said:


> not even just inforoles
> 
> some motherfucker gives me a fruit? mf tells them i'm mafia. someone roleblocks me? mf tells them i'm mafia. i get killed? mf tells them i'm mafia


Sounds like a pretty incriminating role. Well, my night action gives me precisely zero info, normally, so I can check that one toNight ^



JackPK said:


> Herbe said:
> 
> 
> 
> give me badges and good things will happen
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rari_teh said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Herbe said:
> 
> 
> 
> give me badges and good things will happen
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> wrt this i think my role doesn’t have the best badgepower
> i mean, it’s good but. it can also be a waste. i recommend you to deposit your badges somewhere else
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RedneckPhoenix said:
> 
> 
> 
> my badge power is literally worthless i think mf has it in for me
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> hmm my badge power is like medium usefulness? definitely don't prioritize me to give badges to, but maybe drop one on me if you've already allocated everything you want to allocate and you have one leftover
> 
> 
> 
> Zori said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rari_teh said:
> 
> 
> 
> i might be jumping the gun here, but i don’t think your line of reasoning is townsided
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I expected about this much when I said it tbh
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I distinctly remember Seshas/Zori mentioning in at least one past game, maybe two, that when they're a wolf they powerwolf hard
> 
> idk whether to read this as powerwolfing but it's definitely something to keep in mind
Click to expand...

Mine _can_ be pretty useful, but it's incredibly situational 


bruh moment said:


> Zori said:
> 
> 
> 
> how about badge-charged vigilante
> 
> 
> 
> what are you asking specifically? what i think of you having claimed? or is this just rhetorical
> -m
Click to expand...

Yeah, what's your rolename? XD


----------



## rari_teh

Mr. Ultracool said:


> Mine _can_ be pretty useful, but it's incredibly situational


tbqh mine can very fittingly be described like this, but. i’d rather have y’all choose somebody with a badgepower that doesn’t require that much foresight.


----------



## bruh moment

Mr. Ultracool said:


> RedneckPhoenix said:
> 
> 
> 
> not even just inforoles
> 
> some motherfucker gives me a fruit? mf tells them i'm mafia. someone roleblocks me? mf tells them i'm mafia. i get killed? mf tells them i'm mafia
> 
> 
> 
> Sounds like a pretty incriminating role.
Click to expand...

mm. i kind of think that if rnp’s telling the truth then it doesn’t really make sense for actual mafia to have a role like that (obligatory “lol role-alignment spec,” i’ll be waiting to see more from him either way). idk. it goes even beyond the “lol what if they’re just claiming miller to cover their ass” trope


> Yeah, what's your rolename? XD


huh?

-m


----------



## bruh moment

idk for me reading rnp’s claim was just kinda like. why lie about that right out of the gate i guess
-m


----------



## Mawile

bruh moment said:


> idk for me reading rnp’s claim was just kinda like. why lie about that right out of the gate i guess
> -m


i'm more inclined to believe him since it can be easily proven by basically anyone with a targetable night action, plus he seems about the same amount as irritated as when i gave him a basically useless main power in ooctvt


----------



## rari_teh

bruh moment said:


> Mr. Ultracool said:
> 
> 
> 
> Yeah, what's your rolename? XD
> 
> 
> 
> huh?
Click to expand...

i am pretty sure @Mr. Ultracool was meaning to reply to zori’s quoted post


----------



## bruh moment

bruh moment said:


> idk for me reading rnp’s claim was just kinda like. why **would someone *lie about that right out of the gate i guess
> -m


so i am inclined to just vibe
agree that visits might make sense though. i just didn’t really think it checks out as a potential mafia fakeclaim (in that case it’d be like ... purely because he got worried about getting copchecked n0 or something i suppose?)


----------



## bruh moment

Mawile said:


> bruh moment said:
> 
> 
> 
> idk for me reading rnp’s claim was just kinda like. why lie about that right out of the gate i guess
> -m
> 
> 
> 
> i'm more inclined to believe him since it can be easily proven by basically anyone with a targetable night action, plus he seems about the same amount as irritated as when i gave him a basically useless main power in ooctvt
Click to expand...

yes to be clear that’s what i meant!


----------



## Mawile

random thought: inb4 rnp is a mafia role that kills anyone that targets him


----------



## Mawile

Mawile said:


> random thought: inb4 rnp is a mafia role that kills anyone that targets him


(full disclaimer that this is very much a tinfoil hat theory)


----------



## rari_teh

Mawile said:


> random thought: inb4 rnp is a mafia role that kills anyone that targets him


can’t deny that this passed through my head
though i think it’s a wild enough of a thought to disregard it for now
if multiple people die tomorrow we’ll probably know though


----------



## Mr. Ultracool

Oops, made a mistake 


Spoiler: Ignore that first spoiler


----------



## Bluwiikoon

I'm inclined to believe RNP tbh! In prior games he's made entirely truthful claims, but then gotten sussed real hard because of his typing style and mannerisms  I don't feel like this is the kind of role he'd lie about, it seems like a real big disadvantageous role


----------



## Bluwiikoon

Gotta stan monsieur Ultracool just for that flavor tbh


----------



## Bluwiikoon

So I've been playing a lot of Ocarina of Time randomiser lately, and my good friend Evan made me a custom game

I open up my inventory, and lo and behold, I start with a very special item... _Cojiroooooo! _ @kokorico 

One day we'll have a chicken Pokémon with a blue shiny!! :D


----------



## Tofu

Hey uh... Does anyone know when the times of the day and night phases end? Sorry if I missed it somewhere.

Okay well, I just want to say, I didn't block the N0 kill. And I have no badge-costing abilities, but I can choose who to give badges to if I die! I also have a one-shot role (not badge-costy) but I'm going to hold off on saying what it is for now, because, no one else is really claiming. Just, don't give me your badges (if that's even a thing people can do here idk how badge work).


----------



## Bluwiikoon

The phases end at 2am UTC! ^^


----------



## RedneckPhoenix

i'm also irritated bc my power's out so factor that into your reads


----------



## Mr. Ultracool

Tofu said:


> Hey uh... Does anyone know when the times of the day and night phases end? Sorry if I missed it somewhere.
> 
> Okay well, I just want to say, I didn't block the N0 kill. And I have no badge-costing abilities, but I can choose who to give badges to if I die! I also have a one-shot role (not badge-costy) but I'm going to hold off on saying what it is for now, because, no one else is really claiming. Just, don't give me your badges (if that's even a thing people can do here idk how badge work).


Should we claim? Because I really could claim, meow.


----------



## Tofu

I don't have a problem with claiming because my role isn't super powerful (but I guess potentially could be, once, if I have some information, which I cannot obtain myself). I would be okay with it for me but it makes sense if people are worried about exposing their roles to the mafia members. I think it'd be a nice change of pace to just have everyone claim D1 but don't think we'll get everyone to do that, lol.


----------



## Mr. Ultracool

Tofu said:


> don't have a problem with claiming because my role isn't super powerful


Same. Nonetheless, claiming might allow the Mafia to pick between PRs they want gone instead of having to guess...


----------



## Tofu

Anyway, I'll claim because I don't have a problem with people knowing, and it sounds like I wouldn't be a prime target atm:

I think mine like a one-shot ability duplicator: with my photography skills, I can choose a person to copy their action. Then, the next night or day phase (it said night or day? Are there day actions?), I will use that action. It could be useful if I know for sure who I am copying, but could also just fail if people fake roleclaim, so I'm a bit hesitant about it (especially now early game). Like I said, it's only a one-shot as well.

Just for reference in case people missed my other post: when I die, I can give two badges to someone of my choosing.


----------



## Mr. Ultracool

Well, if you claimed, I'll have to do so too, meow, I guess. I can visit people at night and see who visited them that night. Sadly, I won't see their allegiance or anything beyond who they visited... 
That said... Bluwiikoon, would you mind telling meow what action you targeted Vipera Mafnifica with?


----------



## Bluwiikoon

Tofu said:


> Anyway, I'll claim because I don't have a problem with people knowing, and it sounds like I wouldn't be a prime target atm:
> 
> I think mine like a one-shot ability duplicator: with my photography skills, I can choose a person to copy their action. Then, the next night or day phase (it said night or day? Are there day actions?), I will use that action. It could be useful if I know for sure who I am copying, but could also just fail if people fake roleclaim, so I'm a bit hesitant about it (especially now early game). Like I said, it's only a one-shot as well.
> 
> Just for reference in case people missed my other post: when I die, I can give two badges to someone of my choosing.


It's not me, it's you!? 

That could be handy if we get inspection results on D2 or D3 :D A secondary detective! (needless to say @ anyone reading, don't out yourself yet if you're a detective, we need you!)


----------



## Bluwiikoon

Mr. Ultracool said:


> Well, if you claimed, I'll have to do so too, meow, I guess. I can visit people at night and see who visited them that night. Sadly, I won't see their allegiance or anything beyond who they visited...
> That said... Bluwiikoon, would you mind telling meow what action you targeted Vipera Mafnifica with?


Bwuh? I didn't even target VM! 

Do we happen to have... a bus driver...!?

For the record, I'd like to stay quiet about my power for now ^^


----------



## Mr. Ultracool

Bluwiikoon said:


> Mr. Ultracool said:
> 
> 
> 
> Well, if you claimed, I'll have to do so too, meow, I guess. I can visit people at night and see who visited them that night. Sadly, I won't see their allegiance or anything beyond who they visited...
> That said... Bluwiikoon, would you mind telling meow what action you targeted Vipera Mafnifica with?
> 
> 
> 
> Bwuh? I didn't even target VM!
> 
> Do we happen to have... a bus driver...!?
> 
> For the record, I'd like to stay quiet about my power for now ^^
Click to expand...

Sounds pretty reasonable, I guess ^^
Meowever, you not targetting VM seems pretty weird 
Maybe Vipera can't be targeted because of the as-of-yet-unknown rule?


----------



## Bluwiikoon

Someone must have swapped my action so I visited VM instead! ^^ That's my best guess, in any case!


----------



## Bluwiikoon

Didn't a previous M&F game have some kind of heart swap gimmick, or am I thinking of something else? :o


----------



## Tofu

Whoa, how weird. Um... I think we could have a redirecting role that will confuse everyone (unless... One of you two had a motive to lie about visiting or not visiting dearest vm)


----------



## Mr. Ultracool

Tofu said:


> (unless... One of you two had a motive to lie about visiting or not visiting dearest vm)


Denounce the evils of truth! 
Erm, I mean... Lie? Why would I ever lie?


----------



## Bluwiikoon

I trust the cute talking Meowth!


----------



## Vipera Magnifica

Bluwiikoon said:


> Mr. Ultracool said:
> 
> 
> 
> Well, if you claimed, I'll have to do so too, meow, I guess. I can visit people at night and see who visited them that night. Sadly, I won't see their allegiance or anything beyond who they visited...
> That said... Bluwiikoon, would you mind telling meow what action you targeted Vipera Mafnifica with?
> 
> 
> 
> Bwuh? I didn't even target VM!
> 
> Do we happen to have... a bus driver...!?
> 
> For the record, I'd like to stay quiet about my power for now ^^
Click to expand...

Did you by any chance happen to target kokorico?


----------



## Bluwiikoon

Vipera Magnifica said:


> Bluwiikoon said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mr. Ultracool said:
> 
> 
> 
> Well, if you claimed, I'll have to do so too, meow, I guess. I can visit people at night and see who visited them that night. Sadly, I won't see their allegiance or anything beyond who they visited...
> That said... Bluwiikoon, would you mind telling meow what action you targeted Vipera Mafnifica with?
> 
> 
> 
> Bwuh? I didn't even target VM!
> 
> Do we happen to have... a bus driver...!?
> 
> For the record, I'd like to stay quiet about my power for now ^^
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Did you by any chance happen to target kokorico?
Click to expand...

I sure did! ^^


----------



## Bluwiikoon

If I'm picking up what VM's laying down, that means he's confirmed townie


----------



## Bluwiikoon

VM considering that no night kills happened, I have some, uhhhhh thoughts  How are you feeling about things at the moment?


----------



## qenya

*appears*

hi everyone! phase changes are at impossible o'clock for me this game, but I'll try to make up for it with helpful day thoughts! 

as someone who, at this point, is making a habit of fakeclaiming miller, I'm kind of predisposed to be doubtful of rnp's claim... but it's much easier to falsify than a normal miller, so, uh, let's vibe for now, I guess?

a possibility I've not seen mentioned yet: there was no N0 kill because the mafia's nightkill has a badge cost.

re: roleclaims, I am a terrorist again, obviously! :D

...being serious, though, I was going to chew people out for revealing stuff this early in the game, but actually I'm starting to wonder whether the traditional received wisdom of "avoid hinting at your role, even vaguely talking about how powerful it is, to stop the mafia figuring out the best targets" is still valid? it seems like many actions have a cost in badges to use, which means they're useless unless you can successfully indicate to your townie allies how useful it would be for them to distribute theirs to you. I don't think I'm quite at the point of wanting to actually claim anything, but... hmm. anyone want to try to talk me into it or out of it?


----------



## Vipera Magnifica

It seems then, you were helpless against my irresistible allure, yes? Ahahaha, I merely jest... when my Luvdisc uses the move _Attract_, all actions on a target player will be redirected to me instead. Truly an elegant power, would you not agree?


----------



## Bluwiikoon

Vipera Magnifica said:


> It seems then, you were helpless against my irresistible allure, yes? Ahahaha, I merely jest... when my Luvdisc uses the move _Attract_, all actions on a target player will be redirected to me instead. Truly an elegant power, would you not agree?


But what will dear Tofu think...!?  Scandalous!!


----------



## qenya

Vipera Magnifica said:


> when my Luvdisc uses the move _Attract_, all actions on a target player will be redirected to me instead


OwO


----------



## Bluwiikoon

koko's new icon is looking absolutely adorable omg


----------



## Vipera Magnifica

Bluwiikoon said:


> Vipera Magnifica said:
> 
> 
> 
> It seems then, you were helpless against my irresistible allure, yes? Ahahaha, I merely jest... when my Luvdisc uses the move _Attract_, all actions on a target player will be redirected to me instead. Truly an elegant power, would you not agree?
> 
> 
> 
> But what will dear Tofu think...!?  Scandalous!!
Click to expand...

Even dearest Tofu would agree, when it comes to the majesty of water-type Pokémon, none can resist their charm!


----------



## Hydreigon25

Volkner here, Nice to meet everyone .

i think we should not reveal the useful abilities on day 1, since the town is unsureof who to trust this early in the tournament


----------



## Vipera Magnifica

I must say... I am moved by Bluwiikoon's splendid display of innocence. It would be remiss of me not to townread them after such a chain of events.

I would say the same about Señor Ultracool, but I get the most unusual feeling about this question:


Mr. Ultracool said:


> That said... Bluwiikoon, would you mind telling meow what action you targeted Vipera Mafnifica with?


Why were you so interested in the _action_ that dear Blu used to target me? It seems a bit forward to ask him to claim his role so soon.

I admit I am most concerned about RNP's claim. Pardon my language, but surely this is quite the "bastard" role, is it not? If we have no other choices today, it seems our best option may be to vote RNP, since losing such a role would not be a great loss to the town if he is telling the truth, and it will only continue to be a source of confusion for us in the long run.


----------



## Bluwiikoon

VM's eloquence in this game is making me swoon omg


----------



## Vipera Magnifica

Vipera Magnifica said:


> I admit I am most concerned about RNP's claim. Pardon my language, but surely this is quite the "bastard" role, is it not? If we have no other choices today, it seems our best option may be to vote RNP, since losing such a role would not be a great loss to the town if he is telling the truth, and it will only continue to be a source of confusion for us in the long run.


Having said this, we should also be cautious not to vote for any impostors of the extraterrestrial kind, especially given the lack of a death last night. Such a role is so outlandish is nearly screams "vote for me now".


----------



## Mr. Ultracool

Vipera Magnifica said:


> Why were you so interested in the _action_ that dear Blu used to target me? It seems a bit forward to ask him to claim his role so soon.


Because I know that it happened due to my own night action - I wanted to have mew information regarding that.




Vipera Magnifica said:


> If we have no other choices today, it seems our best option may be to vote RNP, since losing such a role would not be a great loss to the town if he is telling the truth, and it will only continue to be a source of confusion for us in the long run.


Well, miller-ish roles could feasibly have an upside as well as a drawback, so loosing RNP might as well be bad for us. Also, me and the Pokémon I borrowed from Giovanni could play Cat and Mouse with him tonight to check his claim. Meow about it?


----------



## Vipera Magnifica

However, an alien would not make such a claim if it could be so easily disproven. Did anyone use an action on RNP last night?


----------



## Vipera Magnifica

I retract my supposition that RNP may be alien... it makes little sense claiming something that could be so easily proven false. Unless being proven false was indeed the alien's desired outcome. But I digress, this line of speculation avails us not.


----------



## bruh moment

Mr. Ultracool said:


> That said... Bluwiikoon, would you mind telling meow what action you targeted Vipera Mafnifica with?





Vipera Magnifica said:


> Why were you so interested in the _action_ that dear Blu used to target me? It seems a bit forward to ask him to claim his role so soon.


yeah it was kind of an awkward question on read, though i also think it's sort of reminiscent of something town!ultracool says maybe? if he's tracker i can understand him (maybe sort of rashly) trying to get intel that way, even if pushing for a claim is kind of meh



kokorico said:


> being serious, though, I was going to chew people out for revealing stuff this early in the game, but actually I'm starting to wonder whether the traditional received wisdom of "avoid hinting at your role, even vaguely talking about how powerful it is, to stop the mafia figuring out the best targets" is still valid? it seems like many actions have a cost in badges to use, which means they're useless unless you can successfully indicate to your townie allies how useful it would be for them to distribute theirs to you. I don't think I'm quite at the point of wanting to actually claim anything, but... hmm. anyone want to try to talk me into it or out of it?


ftr, this is where i'm at :T 



Vipera Magnifica said:


> I admit I am most concerned about RNP's claim. Pardon my language, but surely this is quite the "bastard" role, is it not? If we have no other choices today, it seems our best option may be to vote RNP, since losing such a role would not be a great loss to the town if he is telling the truth, and it will only continue to be a source of confusion for us in the long run.


i don't really understand this, even if we were operating under the logic of "who sucks least for town to lose" 1/4 of the way into d1 (which we shouldn't be), it's not as if we even know he wouldn't be "that much" of a loss for town?! like intimidate is presumably just one of his however many moves and it isn't even directly town-harmful

biased because off of role (+how he went about claiming), at face value, i don't think he's >rand mafia and i also think that this approach isn't that useful for scumhunting. if anything i guess it could be a vig option or whatever, or yeah, a last-resort lynch

-m


----------



## Bluwiikoon

I'm happy to let RNP vibe and have someone check him out if everyone else is!  I doubt he's alien, but it looks like sir Ultracool could detect any suspicious activity if needed


----------



## bruh moment

kokorico said:


> a possibility I've not seen mentioned yet: there was no N0 kill because the mafia's nightkill has a badge cost.


hahahaha omg
_or_ maybe mawile's cannoneer/stored kills mechanic + the badge mechanic desu? that would be hilarious
-m


----------



## bruh moment

Bluwiikoon said:


> I'm happy to let RNP vibe and have someone check him out if everyone else is!  I doubt he's alien, but it looks like sir Ultracool could detect any suspicious activity if needed


yeah i mean. it is early yet. it's just that if EoD were now ... i wouldn't necessarily want to lynch him and am a little predisposed to go D: whenever anyone points out a possible lynch target this early in the Day

(sorry vm)
-m


----------



## kyeugh

Vipera Magnifica said:


> I admit I am most concerned about RNP's claim. Pardon my language, but surely this is quite the "bastard" role, is it not?


 i wouldn’t really describe it as bastardy at all. 
agreeing with my other head that i don’t see any advantage in yeeting rnp. even if his claim isn’t an instant clear, it’s not incriminating either, and “it’s confusing” isn’t really a good reason to yeet; there are still other ways to resolve him, by watching his day play or by tracking him.
-q


----------



## kyeugh

um. wrong account.


----------



## Bluwiikoon

bruh moment said:


> kokorico said:
> 
> 
> 
> a possibility I've not seen mentioned yet: there was no N0 kill because the mafia's nightkill has a badge cost.
> 
> 
> 
> hahahaha omg
> _or_ maybe mawile's cannoneer/stored kills mechanic + the badge mechanic desu? that would be hilarious
> -m
Click to expand...

Bro if that's the case, should we be wary of folks asking for badges?  Though I guess we don't know unless N1 is also deathless!


----------



## bruh moment

kyeugh said:


> um. wrong account.


i’m good at this, i swear.


----------



## bruh moment

kyeugh said:


> um. wrong account.


hey i can react my own posts now!


Bluwiikoon said:


> Bro if that's the case, should we be wary of folks asking for badges?  Though I guess we don't know unless N1 is also deathless!


nah, i wouldn't really jump here yet
-m


----------



## Bluwiikoon

It's good to see both of you around tbh!  A real bruh moment indeed!


----------



## Bluwiikoon

It feels like a lot of stuff has happened already, but I also agree that it's too early to know what to do or whom to vote for.  BM how do you feel about the vote on Zori? (I think it was Ysabel that voted them, but I'd have to double check! Hungry brain!)


----------



## Vipera Magnifica

bruh moment said:


> Vipera Magnifica said:
> 
> 
> 
> I admit I am most concerned about RNP's claim. Pardon my language, but surely this is quite the "bastard" role, is it not? If we have no other choices today, it seems our best option may be to vote RNP, since losing such a role would not be a great loss to the town if he is telling the truth, and it will only continue to be a source of confusion for us in the long run.
> 
> 
> 
> i don't really understand this, even if we were operating under the logic of "who sucks least for town to lose" 1/4 of the way into d1 (which we shouldn't be), it's not as if we even know he wouldn't be "that much" of a loss for town?! like intimidate is presumably just one of his however many moves and it isn't even directly town-harmful
> 
> biased because off of role (+how he went about claiming), at face value, i don't think he's >rand mafia and i also think that this approach isn't that useful for scumhunting. if anything i guess it could be a vig option or whatever, or yeah, a last-resort lynch
> 
> -m
Click to expand...

Hmm... yes, I see your point. I voiced my concerns about RNP because I had a myriad of doubts about his role and alignment, given the role of miller in recent games, but perhaps we should reserve judgment until after we have at least confirmed this one part of his role. I will volunteer to use my action on him if no one confirms it today, since my power is not all that useful on its own.


----------



## Bluwiikoon

My food is in the oven!! I'm so hungry!!! AAAAA


----------



## bruh moment

in re: claiming, i would ask: what benefit does it actually provide you? unless you think that the mafia all have strictly scummy powers, massclaiming probably won’t be super useful in helping us sort them out, but it does give them a ton of information for free. i think we should be thinking in terms of “why” rather than “why not” here.


----------



## Vipera Magnifica

rari_teh said:


> the more i brood about what’s happening the worse i feel about it. i’ll place a vote on *zori* for now and hope she’s not an activated alien.


Rari, would you mind explaining your vote here?


----------



## Bluwiikoon

Oh! It was rari! My mistake, everybody! ^^;


----------



## bruh moment

bruh moment said:


> in re: claiming, i would ask: what benefit does it actually provide you? unless you think that the mafia all have strictly scummy powers, massclaiming probably won’t be super useful in helping us sort them out, but it does give them a ton of information for free. i think we should be thinking in terms of “why” rather than “why not” here.


also re rnp, i think it’s important to note that he’s not just a miller. he announces that he’s scum to EVERYONE who visits him, not just info roles, which is quite a bit sillier to have as scum than town imo. 

i forgot to sign the quoted post, but these are both by skylar. i swear i’ll get the hang of this. 
-q


----------



## bruh moment

Bluwiikoon said:


> It feels like a lot of stuff has happened already, but I also agree that it's too early to know what to do or whom to vote for.  BM how do you feel about the vote on Zori? (I think it was Ysabel that voted them, but I'd have to double check! Hungry brain!)


it was rari who voted there, iirc. i feel fine about it / believe that she's unsettled by seshas (which i sort of am as well, but maybe i'm being a bit more generous atm), and exactly the sort of early vote that rari would be pushing me to place right now if we were hydra'd lol.

-m


----------



## Bluwiikoon

It's a real severe disadvantage to have your role tell everyone and anyone that visits you that you're scum  I feel like with something like that, it was better for RNP to just be upfront about it


----------



## Vipera Magnifica

bruh moment said:


> Bluwiikoon said:
> 
> 
> 
> It feels like a lot of stuff has happened already, but I also agree that it's too early to know what to do or whom to vote for.  BM how do you feel about the vote on Zori? (I think it was Ysabel that voted them, but I'd have to double check! Hungry brain!)
> 
> 
> 
> it was rari who voted there, iirc. i feel fine about it / believe that she's unsettled by seshas (which i sort of am as well, but maybe i'm being a bit more generous atm), and exactly the sort of early vote that rari would be pushing me to place right now if we were hydra'd lol.
> 
> -m
Click to expand...

Perhaps I missed something and need to reread, but could you explain why seshas is unsettling you?


----------



## Bluwiikoon

What do people have against Cheren (RNP), anyway...!? >:O


----------



## Bluwiikoon

Bluwiikoon said:


> What do people have against Cheren (RNP), anyway...!? >:O


(I'm just joking here, for the record! I'm sure it's just Stoutland?)


----------



## Vipera Magnifica

Bluwiikoon said:


> It's a real severe disadvantage to have your role tell everyone and anyone that visits you that you're scum  I feel like with something like that, it was better for RNP to just be upfront about it


I agree. I have come around to the stance that an RNP lynch should be off the table for today.


----------



## Bluwiikoon

Concept: Mafia game where everyone knows everybody's alignments from the start


----------



## bruh moment

Bluwiikoon said:


> Concept: Mafia game where everyone knows everybody's alignments from the start


 that is simply called, society.
-q


----------



## Vipera Magnifica

bruh moment said:


> Bluwiikoon said:
> 
> 
> 
> Concept: Mafia game where everyone knows everybody's alignments from the start
> 
> 
> 
> that is simply called, society.
> -q
Click to expand...

The cruelest game of them all.


----------



## bruh moment

Vipera Magnifica said:


> Perhaps I missed something and need to reread, but could you explain why seshas is unsettling you?


pushing for early claims isn't really that great of a look and she's historically been against roleclaiming needlessly
it's kind of like ... my read on her is oscillatory right now and i'm just going to wait until more happens, i think. maybe she does believe that a claim could bring about confirmed town, but i'm alternating between that and "... but she probably understands how it could backfire" and then going ?_?. also thrown off by having had an extended conversation about it and her kind of ignoring the points brought up and ultimately saying


Zori said:


> stand by my previous suggestion w/ the (large) caveat that probably noone ds certain they stopped a kill


she's assertive as both alignments, but as scum in ooc i thought she was even more given to like ... bulldozing through what other people were saying. so i can't tell if this is an example of that or not yet
-m


----------



## Bluwiikoon

I hope everyone is looking after themselves btw! ^^ My extreme hunger is in fact a low blood sugar so that explains a lot  So I should probably eat that dinner real quick and take a break from reading the thrwad!


----------



## bruh moment

bruh moment said:


> she's assertive as both alignments, but as scum in ooc i thought she was even more given to like ... bulldozing through what other people were saying. so i can't tell if this is an example of that or not yet


actually maybe this exchange deviates from ^ that pattern a bit:


Zori said:


> bruh moment said:
> 
> 
> 
> disagree, i don't think this makes sense in a role madness setup tbh for basically the same reasons as discussed in ooc. i think they should stay hidden
> -m
> 
> 
> 
> Despite 3? doctors, I don't think there was a save
> idk, I just think we should take the confirmed town instead of trying to get more heals
> but it's definitely not surefire in a high power setup
Click to expand...

@rari_teh i'm curious to hear what you think of this also
-m


----------



## Vipera Magnifica

Society is just a mafia game where billionaires have successfully pocketed everyone but the left.


----------



## Vipera Magnifica

My apologies... that was, as the younger folks say "Too real"


----------



## bruh moment

Vipera Magnifica said:


> Society is just a mafia game where billionaires have successfully pocketed everyone but the left.


----------



## RedneckPhoenix

where the fuck is stryke


----------



## bruh moment

bruh moment said:


> Vipera Magnifica said:
> 
> 
> 
> Society is just a mafia game where billionaires have successfully pocketed everyone but the left.
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 735
Click to expand...

skylar randomly disappeared from hydrachat to make this without my knowledge
-m


----------



## RedneckPhoenix

requesting permission to pester him in telegram dm's bc that's the only chat i'm sure he has push notifications on for


----------



## Zori

I also think the claims were mostly unnecessary? sorry if I was unclear
I only was advocationg to claim if you're pretty sure that you can at least clear yourself and either clear or condemn someone else (Doctor, RBer in a low-power setup, or one that gets feedback from successes in some fashion?)


----------



## Zori

I'm fairly sure Ultracool is town though, and regardless he has a pretty powerful role imo


----------



## Mr. Ultracool

RedneckPhoenix said:


> where the fuck is stryke


Meow about we lynch an inactive player for lack of a better option? 
*Stryke*


----------



## Zori

I'm vaguely thinking about looking for wolves in the players who stated in thread that RNP was a bad vote?
Obviously a large number of them are town, and I agree with the stance, but it feels like a thing that I would do as wolf


----------



## Vipera Magnifica

Señor Ultracool, have you always been this trigger-happy?


----------



## Herbe

i have made the Executive Decision that kokorico is mafia-aligned
no i will not elaborate


----------



## M&F

RedneckPhoenix said:


> requesting permission to pester him in telegram dm's bc that's the only chat i'm sure he has push notifications on for


granted, btw

(also, wholeheartedly loving the avatar changes and especially the roleplay, y'all)


----------



## RedneckPhoenix

Mr. Ultracool said:


> RedneckPhoenix said:
> 
> 
> 
> where the fuck is stryke
> 
> 
> 
> Meow about we lynch an inactive player for lack of a better option?
> *Stryke*
Click to expand...

no. perish. only i'm allowed to start a stryke wagon. and only when he's active.


----------



## Mr. Ultracool

Zori said:


> I'm fairly sure Ultracool is town though, and regardless he has a pretty powerful role imo


So... you think I could have made myself a Mafia-target meow? I sure hope so  I'm capable of targeting meowself, so I can find out who led the kill if they do. And then I can give out the Earthbadge to that player, or to  someowne else in a way to indicate who led the Mafkill 



Vipera Magnifica said:


> Señor Ultracool, have you always been this trigger-happy?


I've never been any less trigger happy - true to the Meowtto, I blast forward at the speed of light


----------



## Vipera Magnifica

It seems a bit early in D1 to say "we should lynch an inactive player", especially given that there are multiple people who have not posted yet.


----------



## RedneckPhoenix

it also seems a bit early to lynch rnp


*vipera magnifica*


----------



## Mr. Ultracool

Vipera Magnifica said:


> It seems a bit early in D1 to say "we should lynch an inactive player", especially given that there are multiple people who have not posted yet.


True. Maybe that would force a reaction, though? 

*Unvote*,

at least for meow.


----------



## RedneckPhoenix

MampersandF said:


> RedneckPhoenix said:
> 
> 
> 
> requesting permission to pester him in telegram dm's bc that's the only chat i'm sure he has push notifications on for
> 
> 
> 
> granted, btw
> 
> (also, wholeheartedly loving the avatar changes and especially the roleplay, y'all)
Click to expand...

done


----------



## Ys_

Woah.
So, things happened. I wanted to say I didn't think that the redirection (Mr. UltraMeowth seeing Blu visit VM) was a busdriving power but that's already been discussed ^^'

As for Zori's play I felt weird about her push about revealing possible protective/disrupting roles (if i understood correctly)? coupled with her own claim it seems like it would be in her best interest to try to keep protective roles hidden. Plus her asking for badges for her power early on. I wanted to give her a chance to explain, but hmmmm. It doesn't seem like she's thinking about town as a team. More like chesspieces (?) But given recent claims, maybe it would be better to reevaluate (?) 

hmm nvm she posted and clarified.

*claims*
--Zori claims badge-powered vigilante.
--RNP claims some form of trolly miller
--VM claims redirector. don't know if there's a better name for it (it half reminds me of witch and half of bodyguard)
--Mr UM (ultrameowth) claims watcher
--Tofu claims copycat

Poke me if I missed anything.. this game is going faster than I'm used to heh, but that's a fun challenge :D


----------



## Zori

Ysabel said:


> I wanted to give her a chance to explain, but hmmmm.


explain what?


----------



## Herbe

my role is the Court Jester. every day that i get a laughing emoji react on my post, i get a badge. if i fail to get a laughing emoji react for two days in a row i commit clown suicide.


----------



## Zori

If there is a protective role who is *certain* that they stopped a kill, I'd take 2 clears on D1 over me being able to shoot ~2 times
the caveat being that one probably doesn't exist


----------



## bruh moment

Zori said:


> I only was advocationg to claim if you're pretty sure that you can at least clear yourself and either clear or condemn someone else (Doctor, RBer in a low-power setup, or one that gets feedback from successes in some fashion?)


 how would doctor claiming condemn anyone?


Zori said:


> I'm vaguely thinking about looking for wolves in the players who stated in thread that RNP was a bad vote?
> Obviously a large number of them are town, and I agree with the stance, but it feels like a thing that I would do as wolf


 i don't think this really makes sense.


Herbe said:


> my role is the Court Jester. every day that i get a laughing emoji react on my post, i get a badge. if i fail to get a laughing emoji react for two days in a row i commit clown suicide.


 me too, but every game.
-q


----------



## bruh moment

bruh moment said:


> how would doctor claiming condemn anyone?


 oh, i missed the part that said "either clear or condemn," thought it just said "condemn."  nvm nvm.


----------



## Zori

bruh moment said:


> how would doctor claiming condemn anyone?


roleblocker


bruh moment said:


> i don't think this really makes sense.


something like how I caught rari for very vocally defending RNP in cats?


----------



## bruh moment

Zori said:


> something like how I caught rari for very vocally defending RNP in cats?


 i don't think it's really the comparable.  the only reason people pitched up in his defense is because going for a yeet on him today is actually just weird.


----------



## Zori

bruh moment said:


> i don't think it's really the comparable.  the only reason people pitched up in his defense is because going for a yeet on him today is actually just weird.


It's not that defending him is wolf-motivted or wolfy
it's that if I were a wolf, I would definitely latch onto that as a talking point where I may or may not as villager


----------



## Ys_

Your post about doctor being expendable? I was confused about your thought progression tbh
Like, the way I thought about it was: ok, so say doctor claims, and say they are *certain *that they stopped a kill. Then you have a confirmed doctor and a potentially confirmed non-mafia. Then what? Mafia could just attempt to kill the confirmed doctor. or roleblock them


----------



## bruh moment

Zori said:


> bruh moment said:
> 
> 
> 
> i don't think it's really the comparable.  the only reason people pitched up in his defense is because going for a yeet on him today is actually just weird.
> 
> 
> 
> It's not that defending him is wolf-motivted or wolfy
> it's that if I were a wolf, I would definitely latch onto that as a talking point where I may or may not as villager
Click to expand...

 would you say anyone "latched onto it" as a talking point?  i feel like people were more reacting to vm than they were defending rnp.
-q


----------



## RedneckPhoenix

well i should clarify. my badge power is _weird._
first of all it takes a whopping 8 badges, so dump them into me i guess

second of all, it's both a night *and* day ability. it takes up two phases.

during one day, i post *I'm going on a journey. Come with me. *and then the following night, any mafia who doesn't visit me has their role and alignment revealed to me. so basically the mafia has to kill me or be totally revealed


----------



## RedneckPhoenix

i am never going to get 8 badges, so it's almost completely useless


----------



## Vipera Magnifica

I have been getting strange vibes from *Mr. Ultracool* ever since he was asking for Blu to claim and now I think I may have found a contradiction in his ISO.



Mr. Ultracool said:


> Well, if you claimed, I'll have to do so too, meow, I guess. I can visit people at night and see who visited them that night. Sadly, I won't see their allegiance or anything beyond who they visited...
> That said... Bluwiikoon, would you mind telling meow what action you targeted Vipera Mafnifica with?





Mr. Ultracool said:


> Sounds pretty reasonable, I guess ^^
> Meowever, you not targetting VM seems pretty weird
> Maybe Vipera can't be targeted because of the as-of-yet-unknown rule?



Señor Ultracool, if you claim to have used your watcher action on me, why would you then suggest it possible I can't be targeted?


----------



## bruh moment

here lies rnp
-q


----------



## RedneckPhoenix

presumably because i'm going on a journey to beat 8 gyms and seeing how the other gym leaders act in day-to-day life? i dunno

on death i provide 3 badges, split however i feel like it. i told mf that unless i specifically say otherwise they all go to stryke


----------



## RedneckPhoenix

this is literally the only ability i have other than Intimidate.


----------



## Zori

Ysabel said:


> Your post about doctor being expendable? I was confused about your thought progression tbh
> Like, the way I thought about it was: ok, so say doctor claims, and say they are *certain *that they stopped a kill. Then you have a confirmed doctor and a potentially confirmed non-mafia. Then what? Mafia could just attempt to kill the confirmed doctor. or roleblock them


my point is that the 2 confirmed town are worth more than the chance for more doctor saves, as it probably blocks out 1 vote option for wolves (here the D1 part is important, because the saves are independent of alignment)
I guess that's me being more focused on dayplay than nightplay



bruh moment said:


> would you say anyone "latched onto it" as a talking point? i feel like people were more reacting to vm than they were defending rnp.
> -q


will go back and check at some point in time


----------



## Tofu

Zori said:


> If there is a protective role who is *certain* that they stopped a kill, I'd take 2 clears on D1 over me being able to shoot ~2 times
> the caveat being that one probably doesn't exist





Ysabel said:


> Your post about doctor being expendable? I was confused about your thought progression tbh
> Like, the way I thought about it was: ok, so say doctor claims, and say they are *certain *that they stopped a kill. Then you have a confirmed doctor and a potentially confirmed non-mafia. Then what? Mafia could just attempt to kill the confirmed doctor. or roleblock them


Who is this, this Certain; are they a new hydra account? What have they done to deserve two votes?


----------



## bruh moment

ysabel is simply breadcrumbing for their role, Certain Guy.  once per day, you may be pretty certain about something
-q


----------



## Zori

*certain*
after pretending to reread I have concluded that this is the best wagon


----------



## RedneckPhoenix

my power's back btw so i'm slightly less pissed rn


----------



## Vipera Magnifica

RedneckPhoenix said:


> my power's back btw so i'm slightly less pissed rn


recharged oneshot?


----------



## Zori

Zori said:


> (here the D1 part is important, because the saves are independent of alignment)


To clarify, N0 is special because people pick saves off potential, instead of likelyhood to be town


----------



## Ys_

Zori said:


> my point is that the 2 confirmed town are worth more than the chance for more doctor saves, as it probably blocks out 1 vote option for wolves (here the D1 part is important, because the saves are independent of alignment)
> I guess that's me being more focused on dayplay than nightplay


:O I see. fair enough


----------



## Vipera Magnifica

@MampersandF Is it public knowledge who receives the badges from dead players?


----------



## bruh moment

rnp if you're telling the truth it was massively unwise to reveal your role like that tbh
-q


----------



## Zori

I have vague reservations about VM? idk

luckily for RNP, I happen to give out 8 badges upon death


----------



## Mr. Ultracool

Vipera Magnifica said:


> Señor Ultracool, if you claim to have used your watcher action on me, why would you then suggest it possible I can't be targeted?


I genuinely didn't think about that at that meowment - I was too confused about the possible Driver


----------



## Zori

I can think of at least 3 ways that VM's role can fall and I think it's best to stop discussing any of it


----------



## RedneckPhoenix

bruh moment said:


> rnp if you're telling the truth it was massively unwise to reveal your role like that tbh
> -q


yeah let me just grab 8 badges out of my fuckin cookie jar and pull out this power that notifies the mafia of when i'm using it


----------



## Vipera Magnifica

Zori said:


> I can think of at least 3 ways that VM's role can fall and I think it's best to stop discussing any of it


But clearly it did not fail, given that Blu's action was redirected onto me. This does in fact confirm Ultracool as watcher, but I am not fully convinced they are a town watcher. Perhaps it is all just mere coincidence, but I have found some of their behavior to be rather odd.


----------



## Vipera Magnifica

In any case, I am keeping my vote here for the meantime to... how should I put it... "apply pressure".


----------



## Ys_

see. that's the problem with so many d1 claims...


----------



## bruh moment

RedneckPhoenix said:


> bruh moment said:
> 
> 
> 
> rnp if you're telling the truth it was massively unwise to reveal your role like that tbh
> -q
> 
> 
> 
> yeah let me just grab 8 badges out of my fuckin cookie jar and pull out this power that notifies the mafia of when i'm using it
Click to expand...

i mean, literally yes?  it wouldn't have notified the mafia if you didn't... provide your activation phrase in the thread for no reason, unless the role actually just tells them straight up what's happening.  and acquiring eight badges would have been achieveable if you'd played it right.  not sure what making it completely impossible on d1 achieves other than completely and irreparably crippling what could have basically secured a win for town
anyway it doesn't really matter now that you've done it because it's irreversible but it is definitely a major rip moment unless you're lying
-q


----------



## Herbe

Vipera Magnifica said:


> In any case, I am keeping my vote here for the meantime to... how should I put it... "apply pressure".








VoteOn. Apply directly to the *Ultracool.*
VoteOn. Apply directly to the *Ultracool.*
VoteOn. Apply directly to the *Ultracool.*


----------



## Zori

ashuaosthunoatihnotadutnaohunaoi
I'm just not going to mention the rolesoft


----------



## Zori

Vipera Magnifica said:


> But clearly it did not fail, given that Blu's action was redirected onto me. This does in fact confirm Ultracool as watcher, but I am not fully convinced they are a town watcher. Perhaps it is all just mere coincidence, but I have found some of their behavior to be rather odd.


fall =/= fail tbh


----------



## Zori

bruh moment said:


> i mean, literally yes?  it wouldn't have notified the mafia if you didn't... provide your activation phrase in the thread for no reason, unless the role actually just tells them straight up what's happening.  and acquiring eight badges would have been achieveable if you'd played it right.  not sure what making it completely impossible on d1 achieves other than completely and irreparably crippling what could have basically secured a win for town
> anyway it doesn't really matter now that you've done it because it's irreversible but it is definitely a major rip moment unless you're lying
> -q


I'm fairly sure that RNP's role does in fact tell the mafia about it and that is why he decided to claim it


----------



## Mawile

what's up i just woke up and i apparently read a bunch of the thread at like 6am without remembering it


----------



## Zori

Mawile said:


> what's up i just woke up and i apparently read a bunch of the thread at like 6am without remembering it


relateable


----------



## Mawile

rnp's power seems weird but it also feels like the kind of experimental role i kind of expect from MFia tbh


----------



## Mawile

Mawile said:


> rnp's power seems weird but it also feels like the kind of experimental role i kind of expect from MFia tbh


especially w/ the high and potentially unobtainable badge requirement


----------



## Vipera Magnifica

I will summarize my feelings up to this point in a tier list

*Kingdra Tier*
me, of course

*Milotic Tier*
Bluwiikoon

*Whiscash Tier*
Tofu
bruh moment
Herbe
Ysabel

*Goldeen Tier*
RNP
rari_teh
kokorico

*Tentacool Tier*
Mr. Ultracool
Zori

*Fishing Spot Tier*
Mawile
Zero Moment
myuma
Stryke
Negrek
Hydreigon25
JackPK


----------



## Mr. Ultracool

That meowment when you see a Tierlist and your own is basically the same, but reversed XD


----------



## Mawile

also i keep forgetting that i can react to Game-Relevant posts now and not just haha-funny meme posts


----------



## bruh moment

Mawile said:


> also i keep forgetting that i can react to Game-Relevant posts now and not just haha-funny meme posts


as a purveyor of meme posts and a reviler of game-relevant posts i must disagree
-q


----------



## Mr. Ultracool

Let's do some numeowber crunching! If we are 17 players and 8 have to die for that meower of RNP to kick in, we can assume that we'll reach the endgame at a bit less than 9 players. From those, a bit less than half would have to be in the Meowfia, giving us about four Mafia meowmbers.


----------



## Mawile

Mr. Ultracool said:


> 8 have to die for that meower of RNP to kick in,


depends how many badges people give out and how many are funneled directly to him


----------



## Mr. Ultracool

Mawile said:


> Mr. Ultracool said:
> 
> 
> 
> 8 have to die for that meower of RNP to kick in,
> 
> 
> 
> depends how many badges people give out and how many are funneled directly to him
Click to expand...

Of course; I'm making assumeowptions based on meowself giving out a single Earthbadge upon death


----------



## Vipera Magnifica

Ahahaha, I just realized... If RNP is telling the truth about his role, and I use my Attract power on RNP, none of the mafia would be able to target RNP and he would find out who all the mafia are.


----------



## Vipera Magnifica

Seshas if you're not lying about giving 8 badges upon death let's just yeet you now and pull off the infinite combo.


----------



## Tofu

I can give out two badges when I die, so I would assume other members have a varying number of badges they can distribute?


----------



## Mawile

Mr. Ultracool said:


> meowself giving out a single Earthbadge upon death


i wonder how the number of badges given out was determined, since i give out a different number than both you and Tofu


----------



## Mr. Ultracool

Vipera Magnifica said:


> Ahahaha, I just realized... If RNP is telling the truth about his role, and I use my Attract power on RNP, none of the mafia would be able to target RNP and he would find out who all the mafia are.


Also, if all Mafia have an incentive to target RNP, I could identify themeow all at once.
(Besides, that Journey- flavored role needing eight badges fits in sruprisingly well with meow theory of there being eight mafia members - they would symbolize the Eilte Four...)


----------



## Vipera Magnifica

I also give out two badges.


----------



## Vipera Magnifica

Not sure why that was "Wow" reaction worthy


----------



## Mr. Ultracool

Vipera Magnifica said:


> Not sure why that was "Wow" reaction worthy


Because that meowns that a lot of the assumptions about the setup I had where wrong


----------



## Vipera Magnifica

Now you're just doing it to annoy me


----------



## Mawile

Mr. Ultracool said:


> Vipera Magnifica said:
> 
> 
> 
> Not sure why that was "Wow" reaction worthy
> 
> 
> 
> Because that meowns that a lot of the assumptions about the setup I had where wrong
Click to expand...

what assumptions


----------



## Vipera Magnifica

Mr. Ultracool said:


> Vipera Magnifica said:
> 
> 
> 
> Not sure why that was "Wow" reaction worthy
> 
> 
> 
> Because that meowns that a lot of the assumptions about the setup I had where wrong
Click to expand...

Did you think everyone gives out a different number of badges? There are 18 players; if that was the case someone would be handing out 18 badges


----------



## bruh moment

i'll remark that from the phrasing/kind of templatedness? of our pm, i think the badge behavior is a bit varied
-m


----------



## Mr. Ultracool

Mawile said:


> Mr. Ultracool said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Vipera Magnifica said:
> 
> 
> 
> Not sure why that was "Wow" reaction worthy
> 
> 
> 
> Because that meowns that a lot of the assumptions about the setup I had where wrong
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> what assumptions
Click to expand...

Like meow many Mafia members there were, or how useful/expensive some Badge Powers are


----------



## bruh moment

bruh moment said:


> i'll remark that from the phrasing/kind of templatedness? of our pm, i think the badge **distribution *behavior is a bit varied
> -m


----------



## bruh moment

Mr. Ultracool said:


> Like meow many Mafia members there were, or how useful/expensive some Badge Powers are


off of numbers alone (and not considering o*tgroup) i'd guess at 5 wolves
-m


----------



## Tofu

So far I'm guessing the badges can only be distributed on someone's death? I kind of doubt there would be an action where it's just like "give a badge to someone once" because that would be a waste of an ability space?


----------



## Vipera Magnifica

bruh moment said:


> Mr. Ultracool said:
> 
> 
> 
> Like meow many Mafia members there were, or how useful/expensive some Badge Powers are
> 
> 
> 
> off of numbers alone (and not considering o*tgroup) i'd guess at 5 wolves
> -m
Click to expand...

why are we censoring o*tgroup now


----------



## bruh moment

Vipera Magnifica said:


> why are we censoring o*tgroup now


it's a cursed term


----------



## Stryke

RedneckPhoenix said:


> where the fuck is stryke


Hurngh



Mr. Ultracool said:


> RedneckPhoenix said:
> 
> 
> 
> where the fuck is stryke
> 
> 
> 
> Meow about we lynch an inactive player for lack of a better option?
> *Stryke*
Click to expand...


----------



## Stryke

You guys will never know my powers because not even _I_ know my powers


----------



## Mawile

Stryke said:


> You guys will never know my powers because not even _I_ know my powers


what does this mean


----------



## bruh moment

Stryke said:


> You guys will never know my powers because not even _I_ know my powers








-m


----------



## Mr. Ultracool

Stryke said:


> You guys will never know my powers because not even _I_ know my powers


They meowst be pretty powerful, then


----------



## RedneckPhoenix

i notice a few people playing like they were playing when i got lynched over a redcheck so please for the love of god don't do that again


----------



## RedneckPhoenix

Mr. Ultracool said:


> Stryke said:
> 
> 
> 
> You guys will never know my powers because not even _I_ know my powers
> 
> 
> 
> They meowst be pretty powerful, then
Click to expand...

pretty sure he's just saying he didn't read his role pm


----------



## RedneckPhoenix

Vipera Magnifica said:


> Ahahaha, I just realized... If RNP is telling the truth about his role, and I use my Attract power on RNP, none of the mafia would be able to target RNP and he would find out who all the mafia are.


i've gotten used to these things working in the most frustrating possible way so mf would probably say "well, technically your ability is you targetting yourself, so now it's you letting vm use it, yadda yadda eat shit"


----------



## RedneckPhoenix

there's also the probability that vm is lying brazenly.


----------



## RedneckPhoenix

RedneckPhoenix said:


> Mr. Ultracool said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Stryke said:
> 
> 
> 
> You guys will never know my powers because not even _I_ know my powers
> 
> 
> 
> They meowst be pretty powerful, then
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> pretty sure he's just saying he didn't read his role pm
Click to expand...

i say this because that's a jojo reference and stryke is an asshole


----------



## Stryke

Hey guys I wonder who RNP will be voting for today


----------



## RedneckPhoenix

not you

the other vote on you ruined my appetite for stryke blood

i have to be the first vote. it's not special otherwise


----------



## Mr. Ultracool

RedneckPhoenix said:


> RedneckPhoenix said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mr. Ultracool said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Stryke said:
> 
> 
> 
> You guys will never know my powers because not even _I_ know my powers
> 
> 
> 
> They meowst be pretty powerful, then
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> pretty sure he's just saying he didn't read his role pm
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> i say this because that's a jojo reference and stryke is an asshole
Click to expand...

Wait a meowment, it's a JoJo-reference? What part is that from? (I meowst admit that I'm currently binging JoJo very, very slowly and didn't chatch it someow )


----------



## JackPK

I awaken

Going through the quotes I picked out while browsing through the thread, it looks like most of what I wanted to say got semi-addressed or became moot later in the thread, but I don't think anything I want to say was _exactly_ already said, so eh, have a bunch of quotes that are only partially tangentially relevant:



kokorico said:


> a possibility I've not seen mentioned yet: there was no N0 kill because the mafia's nightkill has a badge cost.


Hm, I considered that momentarily, but mentally tossed it aside bc I realized that as far as we know (per the signup thread), the only way to get badges is for dead people to distribute them. So if both mafia and vig!Zori require badges to kill, we would just plain have no nightkills at all unless we yeet someone AND that person then distributes their badges to mafia or vig. That seems unbalanced to me, so I feel like Occam's Razor is that the mafia nightkill must not be badge-locked.



Vipera Magnifica said:


> I admit I am most concerned about RNP's claim. Pardon my language, but surely this is quite the "bastard" role, is it not? If we have no other choices today, it seems our best option may be to vote RNP, since losing such a role would not be a great loss to the town if he is telling the truth, and it will only continue to be a source of confusion for us in the long run.


I think I would rather wait for D2 and see whether anyone can confirm or deny his claim. I feel like the instinct to yeet people because their roles are "not a great loss to town", rather than because they actually seem scummy for any reason, has helped contribute to a lot of the past tcodf town losses so far.



Vipera Magnifica said:


> I will volunteer to use my action on him if no one confirms it today, since my power is not all that useful on its own.


I can try too, although (bc of how my action works) I'm not sure whether it would trigger his thing or not. More tries from more not-that-useful people is a good thing, though, I think.

(Although useful people should prob stay away from RNP in case he somehow really is galaxy brain mafia that kills everyone who targets him??????)



Mr. Ultracool said:


> RedneckPhoenix said:
> 
> 
> 
> where the fuck is stryke
> 
> 
> 
> Meow about we lynch an inactive player for lack of a better option?
> *Stryke*
Click to expand...

I definitely do not think an inactive yeet accomplishes anything, especially less than halfway through D1

best-case scenario it procs the rand% chance of them being scum but we get no useful info out of checking isos/interactions; worst-case scenario they're town and we get no useful info

-----

not sure how I feel about Zori at this time, I was pretty    at first and that sense has lessened somewhat, but idk whether that's actually me reading her posts positively or if she's just good at pocketing (could be both tbh)

Ultracool has been kind of   ing me too, but before I decide whether to put my vote on him I want to go back and reread to a) iso him and b) compile a vote count


----------



## Vipera Magnifica

JackPK said:


> Vipera Magnifica said:
> 
> 
> 
> I will volunteer to use my action on him if no one confirms it today, since my power is not all that useful on its own.
> 
> 
> 
> I can try too, although (bc of how my action works) I'm not sure whether it would trigger his thing or not. More tries from more not-that-useful people is a good thing, though, I think.
> 
> (Although useful people should prob stay away from RNP in case he somehow really is galaxy brain mafia that kills everyone who targets him??????)
Click to expand...

If you target him, and I target him, your action is just going to be redirected onto me.


----------



## JackPK

oh wait, yeah, fuck, I forgot about that


----------



## Bluwiikoon

VM does your role stop your target from making an action, or is it solely a redirect? :O If you don't wanna disclose that, that's fine too!

Hi Jack and Stryke btw!!! And anyone else that popped in whilst I was sleeping!


----------



## Bluwiikoon

It's rough trimming a longpost on mobile, but I think Jack has a good point about uhhhh the fact that if mafia needs badges to kill folks, it's a bit lopsided?  A bit oddly balanced? Unless M&F really wants to turn around the wolf winstreak, hehe!

We can probably analyse this more if N1 is also deathless (heals and blocks notwithstanding!) but in any case we really gotta be careful about who to give badges to. If RNP has a super badge-powered mafia-outing megamove, I'm worried about what maf could do if they accumulate badges. Not that we can really track such a thing, but it's a scary thought!


----------



## Bluwiikoon

I need to do an official Hydrate and Refill Insulin, so make sure all y'all look after yourself too!  Have a food if you need nutrient!


----------



## bruh moment

Bluwiikoon said:


> Unless M&F really wants to turn around the wolf winstreak, hehe!


hey hey. the wolf winstreak died! town won ooctvt and i am still VERY hyped about it. maybe this could be the dawn of a town winstreak ...

anyway. gone until later tonight but will catch up eventually or w/e
-m


----------



## bruh moment

also ftr i brought up the stored kills/badges theory but i don't really subscribe to it
though i also suspect that badge distribution strat might not matter yet anyway
-m


----------



## Bluwiikoon

This is what I get for not catching up with ooctvt omg!! SCORE 

Look after yourself mewtini my friend!!! ^^


----------



## Hydreigon25

i have reason to believe that the ones that truly give out 1 or 2 badges after death, apparently would be the first few targets that the mafia ( or out-group ) would suggest who to yeet on day 1 &/or day 2 , so for the time being i think the best course of action will be for town is to think things over before making any hasty decisions


----------



## Vipera Magnifica

Bluwiikoon said:


> VM does your role stop your target from making an action, or is it solely a redirect? :O If you don't wanna disclose that, that's fine too!


It won't affect their action, unless they self-target, I suppose?


----------



## Herbe

bruh moment said:


> Bluwiikoon said:
> 
> 
> 
> Unless M&F really wants to turn around the wolf winstreak, hehe!
> 
> 
> 
> hey hey. the wolf winstreak died! town won ooctvt and i am still VERY hyped about it. maybe this could be the dawn of a town winstreak ...
Click to expand...

town also won power plant pokemafia :3


----------



## Mawile

Herbe said:


> town also won power plant pokemafia :3


*herbe won power plant pokemafia


----------



## JackPK

hastily assembled vote count (pls correct if I missed any):

Ultracool (2): VM (#206), Herbe (#228)
zori (1): rari (#96)
VM (1): RNP (#190)

vote not placed (14): Mawile, Bluwii, ZM, Ultracool, myuma, Stryke, Tofu, Negrek, koko, Zori, bruh, Hydrei, Jack, Ysabel

-----

I didn't really see much of anything in Ultracool's ISO that jumped out at me that didn't already jump out on the first readthrough of the thread. However, it did lead me to a tangential question I'm curious about:

Do we think we want to share how many badges we dispense when we die? Or do we suspect that might be something mafia could use strategically so we don't want to give them that info?

I have a wild theory I'd like to speculate on if we do want to massclaim badge numbers, but if we don't then my theory is pointless and not worth bothering to bring up

-----

For now, I don't like Ultracool's posts so far and I like having him as one of the wagons, but I fundamentally don't feel comfortable with the prospect of one wagon skyrocketing past all the others (barring when there's a redcheck or counterclaim or other overt evidence), so I will refrain from placing my vote for now


----------



## Mr. Ultracool

JackPK said:


> For now, I don't like Ultracool's posts so far and I like having him as one of the wagons


What am I doing wrong? Did I claimeow too soon?


----------



## Herbe

i love ultracool's in thread presence and MAGNIFICENT cat puns and my vote was mostly a joke vote 
that said, i dont think he's a bad yeet candident


----------



## Herbe

y'all ever noticed that I can't spell for shit?


----------



## Vipera Magnifica

There's something else I wanted to ask about that's kind of slipped under the radar.



Mr. Ultracool said:


> So... you think I could have made myself a Mafia-target meow? I sure hope so  I'm capable of targeting meowself, so I can find out who led the kill if they do. And then I can give out the Earthbadge to that player, or to  someowne else in a way to indicate who led the Mafkill


What exactly was your idea when suggesting this? Were you saying you would give badges to the person who killed you? Since it doesn't seem like it's announced who gets the badges, how exactly would giving badges to the mafia accomplish anything except giving the mafia more firepower? Surely you thought of this before suggesting such a play?


----------



## JackPK

Mr. Ultracool said:


> JackPK said:
> 
> 
> 
> For now, I don't like Ultracool's posts so far and I like having him as one of the wagons
> 
> 
> 
> What am I doing wrong? Did I claimeow too soon?
Click to expand...

I mean the cat puns are great! I just really don't like the early push for claims (#115) + suggesting an inactive yeet (#182)


----------



## Vipera Magnifica

And if you planned to give a badge to someone else "in a way to indicate who led the Mafkill", how exactly would you do this?


----------



## Tofu

fwiw Ultracool's posts didn't really stand out to me as weird, but, it could just be because I am automatically more trusting because his watching ability (or whatever it is) was confirmed (in a sort of roundabout way because of the redirect) by both Blu and vm.



Vipera Magnifica said:


> There's something else I wanted to ask about that's kind of slipped under the radar.
> 
> 
> 
> Mr. Ultracool said:
> 
> 
> 
> So... you think I could have made myself a Mafia-target meow? I sure hope so  I'm capable of targeting meowself, so I can find out who led the kill if they do. And then I can give out the Earthbadge to that player, or to  someowne else in a way to indicate who led the Mafkill
> 
> 
> 
> What exactly was your idea when suggesting this? Were you saying you would give badges to the person who killed you? Since it doesn't seem like it's announced who gets the badges, how exactly would giving badges to the mafia accomplish anything except giving the mafia more firepower? Surely you thought of this before suggesting such a play?
Click to expand...

I didn't really see UC's above post when it was originally posted but I would also argue that, if Ultracool were mafia, why would he want to die and be killed by them just to distribute a badge or two (I still think watcher, or whatever his role is, could be useful and it already opened up interesting dialogue for today)? I'm not sure mafia would want to self-sacrifice to themselves, but, idk

Although the post is confusing to me. Like obviously whoever killed UC wouldn't announce it?



Vipera Magnifica said:


> And if you planned to give a badge to someone else "in a way to indicate who led the Mafkill", how exactly would you do this?


I'm guessing the player would get a pm saying they got a badge, BUT, I don't know if they would know who it came from. However, I think, if there was text saying "You got a bug badge" or "You got an earth badge" you could tell who gave it to you. If M&F includes the type of badge in the pm, that is.


----------



## Vipera Magnifica

Tofu said:


> I didn't really see UC's above post when it was originally posted but I would also argue that, if Ultracool were mafia, why would he want to die and be killed by them just to distribute a badge or two (I still think watcher, or whatever his role is, could be useful and it already opened up interesting dialogue for today)? I'm not sure mafia would want to self-sacrifice to themselves, but, idk
> 
> Although the post is confusing to me. Like obviously whoever killed UC wouldn't announce it?



I don't think a mafia!UC ever planned to do such a thing, but I can see mafia!UC suggesting something like this to appear to be trying to help town.


----------



## bruh moment

JackPK said:


> I have a wild theory I'd like to speculate on if we do want to massclaim badge numbers, but if we don't then my theory is pointless and not worth bothering to bring up


for posterity. we also have a theory about this
(it would be really funny if they were the same theory,)


JackPK said:


> I just really don't like the early push for claims (#115) + suggesting an inactive yeet (#182)


agree that they were kind of weird. in re: push for claims, what made you come around on seshas?


Tofu said:


> I'm not sure mafia would want to self-sacrifice to themselves, but, idk


ah, unless there was no genuine intention to self-sacrifice (if he's mafia, it's not like he'd ever actually get factional-killed, right.)
-m


----------



## Mr. Ultracool

Vipera Magnifica said:


> There's something else I wanted to ask about that's kind of slipped under the radar.
> 
> 
> 
> Mr. Ultracool said:
> 
> 
> 
> So... you think I could have made myself a Mafia-target meow? I sure hope so  I'm capable of targeting meowself, so I can find out who led the kill if they do. And then I can give out the Earthbadge to that player, or to  someowne else in a way to indicate who led the Mafkill
> 
> 
> 
> What exactly was your idea when suggesting this? Were you saying you would give badges to the person who killed you? Since it doesn't seem like it's announced who gets the badges, how exactly would giving badges to the mafia accomplish anything except giving the mafia more firepower? Surely you thought of this before suggesting such a play?
Click to expand...

Of course! Right meow, the best I managed to come up with giving the Badge to the person below the leader of the meowfiakill on that list of players that was posted on Page 1


----------



## Vipera Magnifica

Mr. Ultracool said:


> Vipera Magnifica said:
> 
> 
> 
> There's something else I wanted to ask about that's kind of slipped under the radar.
> 
> 
> 
> Mr. Ultracool said:
> 
> 
> 
> So... you think I could have made myself a Mafia-target meow? I sure hope so  I'm capable of targeting meowself, so I can find out who led the kill if they do. And then I can give out the Earthbadge to that player, or to  someowne else in a way to indicate who led the Mafkill
> 
> 
> 
> What exactly was your idea when suggesting this? Were you saying you would give badges to the person who killed you? Since it doesn't seem like it's announced who gets the badges, how exactly would giving badges to the mafia accomplish anything except giving the mafia more firepower? Surely you thought of this before suggesting such a play?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Of course! Right meow, the best I managed to come up with giving the Badge to the person below the leader of the meowfiakill on that list of players that was posted on Page 1
Click to expand...

What if the person below them was also mafia?


----------



## Mawile

Mr. Ultracool said:


> Of course! Right meow, the best I managed to come up with giving the Badge to the person below the leader of the meowfiakill on that list of players that was posted on Page 1


what if they're mafia too


----------



## Mr. Ultracool

Also, if someowne has a better plan, I'd _love _to hear it - there's so meowny things that could go wrong there if there are two mafia members right below meowne another...


----------



## bruh moment

Mr. Ultracool said:


> Of course! Right meow, the best I managed to come up with giving the Badge to the person below the leader of the meowfiakill on that list of players that was posted on Page 1


ohhh i understand what you meant now, (though others have pointed out why that has some problems too). thought you were literally talking about giving the badge to the wolf who killed you
-m


----------



## rari_teh

Tofu said:


> Although the post is confusing to me. Like obviously whoever killed UC wouldn't announce it?





Mr. Ultracool said:


> Vipera Magnifica said:
> 
> 
> 
> There's something else I wanted to ask about that's kind of slipped under the radar.
> 
> 
> 
> Mr. Ultracool said:
> 
> 
> 
> So... you think I could have made myself a Mafia-target meow? I sure hope so  I'm capable of targeting meowself, so I can find out who led the kill if they do. And then I can give out the Earthbadge to that player, or to  someowne else in a way to indicate who led the Mafkill
> 
> 
> 
> What exactly was your idea when suggesting this? Were you saying you would give badges to the person who killed you? Since it doesn't seem like it's announced who gets the badges, how exactly would giving badges to the mafia accomplish anything except giving the mafia more firepower? Surely you thought of this before suggesting such a play?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Of course! Right meow, the best I managed to come up with giving the Badge to the person below the leader of the meowfiakill on that list of players that was posted on Page 1
Click to expand...

i’m compiling a catchup post but i feel like this should be addressed asap
if ultracool sets to watch himself every night, he’s effectively become a vt, innit
- rari


----------



## Mr. Ultracool

Vipera Magnifica said:


> What if the person below them was also mafia





Mawile said:


> what if they're mafia too





Mr. Ultracool said:


> there are two mafia members right below meowne another...


I was thinking about that ever since I had the idea with the badge, to be meownest, but the best I cameow up with was re-ramdomizing it and hoping for the best


----------



## Mawile

rari_teh said:


> if ultracool sets to watch himself every night, he’s effectively become a vt, innit


yeah his power kind of becomes worthless then since he could be watching other people

it's more reliable for him to watch someone else in case he catches a kill instead of repeatedly self-watching and hoping his badge giveaway works as planned


----------



## Mawile

Mawile said:


> rari_teh said:
> 
> 
> 
> if ultracool sets to watch himself every night, he’s effectively become a vt, innit
> 
> 
> 
> yeah his power kind of becomes worthless then since he could be watching other people
> 
> it's more reliable for him to watch someone else in case he catches a kill instead of repeatedly self-watching and hoping his badge giveaway works as planned
Click to expand...

i also think that a badge could be better distributed to someone who has a badge power that could be powerful instead of just essientially randomly


----------



## Mr. Ultracool

rari_teh said:


> Tofu said:
> 
> 
> 
> Although the post is confusing to me. Like obviously whoever killed UC wouldn't announce it?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mr. Ultracool said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Vipera Magnifica said:
> 
> 
> 
> There's something else I wanted to ask about that's kind of slipped under the radar.
> 
> 
> 
> Mr. Ultracool said:
> 
> 
> 
> So... you think I could have made myself a Mafia-target meow? I sure hope so  I'm capable of targeting meowself, so I can find out who led the kill if they do. And then I can give out the Earthbadge to that player, or to  someowne else in a way to indicate who led the Mafkill
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> What exactly was your idea when suggesting this? Were you saying you would give badges to the person who killed you? Since it doesn't seem like it's announced who gets the badges, how exactly would giving badges to the mafia accomplish anything except giving the mafia more firepower? Surely you thought of this before suggesting such a play?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Of course! Right meow, the best I managed to come up with giving the Badge to the person below the leader of the meowfiakill on that list of players that was posted on Page 1
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> i’m compiling a catchup post but i feel like this should be addressed asap
> if ultracool sets to watch himself every night, he’s effectively become a vt, innit
> - rari
Click to expand...

You're assuming that the Mafia didn't target me-owth of fear that I'd find them, it seems. Personally, I'd hope they'll kill an inforole like meowself sooner rather than later. Also, I can actually get Alignmeownts after all, but in a weird way...


----------



## Mawile

Mr. Ultracool said:


> You're assuming that the Mafia didn't target me-owth of fear that I'd find them, it seems. Personally, I'd hope they'll kill an inforole like meowself sooner rather than later. Also, I can actually get Alignmeownts after all, but in a weird way...


so you're now making yourself more of a target now then by mentioning this


----------



## bruh moment

Mr. Ultracool said:


> You're assuming that the Mafia didn't target me-owth of fear that I'd find them, it seems. Personally, I'd hope they'll kill an inforole like meowself sooner rather than later.


???


----------



## Mr. Ultracool

Mawile said:


> Mr. Ultracool said:
> 
> 
> 
> You're assuming that the Mafia didn't target me-owth of fear that I'd find them, it seems. Personally, I'd hope they'll kill an inforole like meowself sooner rather than later. Also, I can actually get Alignmeownts after all, but in a weird way...
> 
> 
> 
> so you're now making yourself more of a target now then by mentioning this
Click to expand...

That's my schemeow, yes.


----------



## bruh moment

hey @Vipera Magnifica can you talk to me about where you are in re: ultracool? as i followed it looked like your initial  at him was from this post:


Vipera Magnifica said:


> Señor Ultracool, if you claim to have used your watcher action on me, why would you then suggest it possible I can't be targeted?


but then as you say later, he's ~confirmed to not be lying about having some type of watcher ability, so i assume there's some other thoughts you have independently of the roleclaim. could you talk more about what specifically you find "odd" (or actually, not even 'odd', but _scummy_) 

-m


----------



## bruh moment

(personally - i agree he's watcher, and that watcher isn't alignment-indicative. but idk he's reminding me of tarot a lot, especially in his attempts to strategize, and even if some of the ideas he's proposing are off-kilter i don't yet believe that they're necessarily him being anti-town?)
-m


----------



## RedneckPhoenix

rari you're amazing i appreciate you and you're an amazing member of this community but you damn near gave me a heart attack with the 14 notifications


----------



## bruh moment

RedneckPhoenix said:


> you damn near gave me a heart attack with the 14 notifications


bruh just think of the reaction score gains we're getting.
-m


----------



## Mawile

RedneckPhoenix said:


> rari you're amazing i appreciate you and you're an amazing member of this community but you damn near gave me a heart attack with the 14 notifications


just turn off reaction notifications tbh


----------



## RedneckPhoenix

Mawile said:


> RedneckPhoenix said:
> 
> 
> 
> rari you're amazing i appreciate you and you're an amazing member of this community but you damn near gave me a heart attack with the 14 notifications
> 
> 
> 
> just turn off reaction notifications tbh
Click to expand...

don't you tell me what to do ghost boy


----------



## Mr. Ultracool

Anyways, if I meownage to trigger that condition for my alignmentcheck, who meows? Maybe I'll be seen as a threat and remeowed next Night, or I find out who a Mafiameowmber is and what function they can perform


----------



## rari_teh

Vipera Magnifica said:


> rari_teh said:
> 
> 
> 
> the more i brood about what’s happening the worse i feel about it. i’ll place a vote on *zori* for now and hope she’s not an activated alien.
> 
> 
> 
> Rari, would you mind explaining your vote here?
Click to expand...

the worst thing about being active only at night is that other people have already addressed things you were going to by the time you arrive, but fuck it, i’ll just say it in my words.

zori is being way too assertive on things that don’t really make sense and trying to gaslight by aggressively suggesting town-hurting moves with such confidence people can’t help but doubt themselves.

a redux: she tried to bring into discussion the lack of an n0, which pretty much everybody agreed is a bit pointless at the moment (i see it as w!zori either trying to steer discussion into useless speculation or fishing for a naïve roleblocker/doctor to out themself); then, when that proved unfruitful, she suggested whoever stopped the nightkill to claim, which would effectively do nothing but give mafia information and a sweet N1 target; then she said that doctors are “mid-tier PRs” and getting a conftown would be better than potentially saving people from dying later on, which does not make objective sense under any logic; then when too many people were side-eyeing her all-but-openwolfing she gave a half-backtrack and said that she stands by her suggestion with the caveat that nobody really knows if they stopped the N0 or not (#70), which, as bruh instantly pointed, should completely nullify her suggestion

all that aside, her one-badge vig claim is literally too good to be true imo. this doesn’t really make sense unless she has a very good and very wolfy badgepower and is trying to attract badges

unless somebody comes out with a redcheck, i am not moving my vote toDay.



Spoiler



i fully agree with bruh and ysa here, except i’m not giving zori the benefit of the doubt anymore


bruh moment said:


> pushing for early claims isn't really that great of a look and she's historically been against roleclaiming needlessly
> it's kind of like ... my read on her is oscillatory right now and i'm just going to wait until more happens, i think. maybe she does believe that a claim could bring about confirmed town, but i'm alternating between that and "... but she probably understands how it could backfire" and then going ?_?. also thrown off by having had an extended conversation about it and her kind of ignoring the points brought up and ultimately saying
> 
> 
> Zori said:
> 
> 
> 
> stand by my previous suggestion w/ the (large) caveat that probably noone ds certain they stopped a kill
> 
> 
> 
> she's assertive as both alignments, but as scum in ooc i thought she was even more given to like ... bulldozing through what other people were saying. so i can't tell if this is an example of that or not yet
> -m
Click to expand...




Ysabel said:


> As for Zori's play I felt weird about her push about revealing possible protective/disrupting roles (if i understood correctly)? coupled with her own claim it seems like it would be in her best interest to try to keep protective roles hidden. Plus her asking for badges for her power early on. I wanted to give her a chance to explain, but hmmmm. It doesn't seem like she's thinking about town as a team. More like chesspieces (?)








bruh moment said:


> bruh moment said:
> 
> 
> 
> she's assertive as both alignments, but as scum in ooc i thought she was even more given to like ... bulldozing through what other people were saying. so i can't tell if this is an example of that or not yet
> 
> 
> 
> actually maybe this exchange deviates from ^ that pattern a bit:
> 
> 
> Zori said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bruh moment said:
> 
> 
> 
> disagree, i don't think this makes sense in a role madness setup tbh for basically the same reasons as discussed in ooc. i think they should stay hidden
> -m
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Despite 3? doctors, I don't think there was a save
> idk, I just think we should take the confirmed town instead of trying to get more heals
> but it's definitely not surefire in a high power setup
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> @rari_teh i'm curious to hear what you think of this also
> -m
Click to expand...

this makes no objective sense and zori knows it. “take the confirmed town instead of trying to get more heals”? isn’t this pretty much exactly what she was being adamant on doing in ooctvtmqm and nowhere else? she just wants to find doctors to kill at this point and it honestly surprises me that people are going through her posts and going “ah ok, checks out”. goes to prove that gaslighting sure works

she’s giving objectively bad advice with such confidence people don’t even feel space to question internally. she’s pulling a dani here



Zori said:


> I'm fairly sure Ultracool is town though, and regardless he has a pretty powerful role imo


so you think that doctor isn’t too powerful but watcher is? interesting eh



Zori said:


> I'm vaguely thinking about looking for wolves in the players who stated in thread that RNP was a bad vote?
> Obviously a large number of them are town, and I agree with the stance, but it feels like a thing that I would do as wolf


this is a powerwolf if i ever saw one



Zori said:


> If there is a protective role who is *certain* that they stopped a kill, I'd take 2 clears on D1 over me being able to shoot ~2 times
> the caveat being that one probably doesn't exist


this is a terrible backtracking attempt



Zori said:


> something like how I caught rari for very vocally defending RNP in cats?


HAHAHAHHAAHAH MATE
caught me for very vocally defending keith in cats? really?? in the same game i killed you N1 for having the same Very Unique role as me? where you, after dead, was absolutely sure i was mafia because you had no reason to be nightkilled other than having limneighbourized me? and then later claimed to be neighbourizer myself?

you even thought _mewt_ was mafia because she was corroborating my limneighbourizer claim. wtf. this is revisionist gaslighting. awoo more.



RedneckPhoenix said:


> well i should clarify. my badge power is _weird._
> first of all it takes a whopping 8 badges, so dump them into me i guess
> 
> second of all, it's both a night *and* day ability. it takes up two phases.
> 
> during one day, i post *I'm going on a journey. Come with me. *and then the following night, any mafia who doesn't visit me has their role and alignment revealed to me. so basically the mafia has to kill me or be totally revealed


…oh, keith. i hope you’re lying. because if you’re not you’ve just wasted your entire role.



Zori said:


> my point is that the 2 confirmed town are worth more than the chance for more doctor saves, as it probably blocks out 1 vote option for wolves (here the D1 part is important, because the saves are independent of alignment)
> I guess that's me being more focused on dayplay than nightplay


i would say more words about why this doesn’t make any sense, but a) i think i already got my point across and b) you know why this doesn’t make sense


----------



## rari_teh

before i forget, i think ultracool is within his towngame here and wouldn’t be comfortable having him lynched toDay


----------



## bruh moment

rari_teh said:


> this makes no objective sense and zori knows it. “take the confirmed town instead of trying to get more heals”? isn’t this pretty much exactly what she was being adamant on doing in ooctvtmqm and nowhere else? she just wants to find doctors to kill at this point and it honestly surprises me that people are going through her posts and going “ah ok, checks out”. goes to prove that gaslighting sure works


mm, the reason i'm not more certain here is that i think she seems more insecure about the suggestion here than in ooc (where i didn't think she'd have bothered trying to explain it in the way she is here, even if i disagree/am still kind of flagged by it). this doesn't feel as bulldoze-y to me but i also haven't reread enough yet. do you think it's the same?


----------



## bruh moment

buuut, i'm not actually opposed to a seshas wagon either, and i agree with you that i like it a lot more than the uc one (and as i sort of said before, i'm worried that some peope are conflating him being off-the-wall with him actually wolfing)
-m


----------



## rari_teh

bruh moment said:


> mm, the reason i'm not more certain here is that i think she seems more insecure about the suggestion here than in ooc (where i didn't think she'd have bothered trying to explain it in the way she is here, even if i disagree/am still kind of flagged by it). this doesn't feel as bulldoze-y to me but i also haven't reread enough yet. do you think it's the same?


i sincerely think it’s the same
she was more aggressive in ooc indeed, but that yielded her a very fast wagon. it wouldn’t surprise me if she toned down the aggressivity but stuck to the same strategy otherwise. which is what she seems to be doing here


----------



## Mawile

personally i also think the combination of badge-powered vig + gives out 8 badges upon death sounds too good to be true, especially given that those who have mentioned their death badge counts have fairly low numbers of badges to give away


----------



## Mawile

Mawile said:


> personally i also think the combination of badge-powered vig + gives out 8 badges upon death sounds too good to be true, especially given that those who have mentioned their death badge counts have fairly low numbers of badges to give away


altho zori also mentioned some kind of drawback, so /shrug


----------



## bruh moment

Mawile said:


> gives out 8 badges upon death


ftr, i think seshas was joking [in response to rnp] when she said this lol
-m


----------



## Mawile

bruh moment said:


> Mawile said:
> 
> 
> 
> gives out 8 badges upon death
> 
> 
> 
> ftr, i think seshas was joking [in response to rnp] when she said this lol
> -m
Click to expand...

ah fair, explains why it was crossed out


----------



## rari_teh

Mawile said:


> personally i also think the combination of badge-powered vig + gives out 8 badges upon death sounds too good to be true, especially given that those who have mentioned their death badge counts have fairly low numbers of badges to give away


i am pretty sure she was memeing about the badges regardless of alignment


----------



## rari_teh

ninja’d


----------



## Mr. Ultracool

Mawile said:


> personally i also think the combination of badge-powered vig + gives out 8 badges upon death sounds too good to be true, especially given that those who have mentioned their death badge counts have fairly low numbers of badges to give away


Well, meowbe the latter part was meant as a joke? Although, rari-teh brought up a lot of meownvincing points...


----------



## Herbe

*zori*

i'm a sucker for rariposting


----------



## bruh moment

herbe do you have any other passing thoughts?
-m


----------



## Herbe

i don't particularly trust vm at the moment


----------



## Herbe

full disclosure that I'm going to be barely useful this game especially early on. however i'll start being an Asset if y'all let me hang around for a lil while :3

also hi mewtini!!!!!


----------



## Herbe

this will all make sense in time


----------



## bruh moment

Herbe said:


> also hi mewtini!!!!!


<333


----------



## Herbe

idea: cerberus mafia account with 3 players shoved in one acc


----------



## bruh moment

Herbe said:


> this will all make sense in time


before you said this i was just like oh yeah, this checks out, 'cause he's moving irl. now i'm scared
-m


----------



## Herbe

bruh moment said:


> Herbe said:
> 
> 
> 
> this will all make sense in time
> 
> 
> 
> before you said this i was just like oh yeah, this checks out, 'cause he's moving irl. now i'm scared
> -m
Click to expand...

>:333333

column a, column b, yea?


----------



## bruh moment

Herbe said:


> idea: cerberus mafia account with 3 players shoved in one acc


this is secretly bruh moment, because i couldn't abandon rari


----------



## Herbe

bruh moment said:


> Herbe said:
> 
> 
> 
> idea: cerberus mafia account with 3 players shoved in one acc
> 
> 
> 
> this is secretly bruh moment, because i couldn't abandon rari
Click to expand...

ohohoho!!!!! who could ever abandon sweet rari though. lets be real.


----------



## bruh moment

Herbe said:


> *zori*
> 
> i'm a sucker for rariposting


oh last thing, sorry. do you have any thoughts about ultracool/that wagon?
-m


----------



## bruh moment

bruh moment said:


> Herbe said:
> 
> 
> 
> *zori*
> 
> i'm a sucker for rariposting
> 
> 
> 
> oh last thing, sorry. do you have any thoughts about ultracool/that wagon?
> -m
Click to expand...

ok maybe this was kind of a pointless post now that i remember your uc vote was kind of a joke lol


----------



## Herbe

all good. y'all can probably drag a tierlist out of me toMorrow i think.


----------



## JackPK

bruh moment said:


> JackPK said:
> 
> 
> 
> I just really don't like the early push for claims (#115) + suggesting an inactive yeet (#182)
> 
> 
> 
> agree that they were kind of weird. in re: push for claims, what made you come around on seshas?
Click to expand...

idk that I came around on that aspect of seshas, more like she stopped talking about it and I felt less weirded/bad about her talk on other topics

...but rari's #317 reminded me of all those things i _did_ feel weirded/bad about, thank u rari

I think I like Ultracool/Zori wagons for toDay? at least for now, until/unless discussion arises to change my mind (it is still early in the phase). iirc they're at like 2/2? so I will keep my vote unplaced for the moment and I will place it to rebalance the wagons when they become unbalanced


----------



## JackPK

bruh moment said:


> bruh moment said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Herbe said:
> 
> 
> 
> *zori*
> 
> i'm a sucker for rariposting
> 
> 
> 
> oh last thing, sorry. do you have any thoughts about ultracool/that wagon?
> -m
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> ok maybe this was kind of a pointless post now that i remember your uc vote was kind of a joke lol
Click to expand...

oh wait was Herbe one of the original UC voters? maybe the wagons are not 2/2 balanced then, lemme go double check


----------



## bruh moment

JackPK said:


> oh wait was Herbe one of the original UC voters? maybe the wagons are not 2/2 balanced then, lemme go double check


i think he was, yep
-m


----------



## Herbe

JackPK said:


> bruh moment said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bruh moment said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Herbe said:
> 
> 
> 
> *zori*
> 
> i'm a sucker for rariposting
> 
> 
> 
> oh last thing, sorry. do you have any thoughts about ultracool/that wagon?
> -m
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> ok maybe this was kind of a pointless post now that i remember your uc vote was kind of a joke lol
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> oh wait was Herbe one of the original UC voters? maybe the wagons are not 2/2 balanced then, lemme go double check
Click to expand...

oui, tu as raison


----------



## Herbe

can't believe y'all already forgot my VoteOn meme


----------



## JackPK

ok yeah it's ultracool 1/zori 2

I'll park on *ultracool* to balance the wagons


----------



## JackPK

Herbe said:


> idea: cerberus mafia account with 3 players shoved in one acc


idea: true-to-mythology hydra account in which every time it dies, it immediately revives with an extra person in it


----------



## Herbe

JackPK said:


> Herbe said:
> 
> 
> 
> idea: cerberus mafia account with 3 players shoved in one acc
> 
> 
> 
> idea: true-to-mythology hydra account in which every time it dies, it immediately revives with an extra person in it
Click to expand...

oohhhhhhhohohohohho jack you just gave me an EXCELLENT idea for Greek Mythology Mafia


----------



## Tofu

Zori's posts have confused me more than Ultracool's, and I feel more weird about Zori than UC at the moment. But I aint vote till tomorrow probably.

On another note, on the off chance that rnp isn't lying about his role and the chance that he ends up with the 8 badges required, I can use my copycat to try to prevent mafia from somehow stopping his action? They might not be able to block both of us.

(also I kind of like that on the off chance Zori does drop 8 badges when killed, AND rnp isn't just trolling us, we could... activate his ability with the badges Zori drops, right (assuming they are sent to rnp)? Honestly this isn't a situation that even seems like it could realistically happen, but just sharing my train of thought)


----------



## Vipera Magnifica

bruh moment said:


> hey @Vipera Magnifica can you talk to me about where you are in re: ultracool? as i followed it looked like your initial  at him was from this post:
> 
> 
> Vipera Magnifica said:
> 
> 
> 
> Señor Ultracool, if you claim to have used your watcher action on me, why would you then suggest it possible I can't be targeted?
> 
> 
> 
> but then as you say later, he's ~confirmed to not be lying about having some type of watcher ability, so i assume there's some other thoughts you have independently of the roleclaim. could you talk more about what specifically you find "odd" (or actually, not even 'odd', but _scummy_)
> 
> -m
Click to expand...

this is just from a pattern of behavior that's pinged me as suspicious, i'll try to summarize in bullet form

also, before i do, i like rari's post about seshas a lot... i had zori/ultracool already at the bottom of my reads list and i would not at all be opposed to voting *zori* and waiting until later to find out about ultracool

but anyway, about ultracool

- while it seems to me he is basically confirmed watcher, it didn't strike me as the optimal move to claim early unless he was a mafia watcher thinking his role would cement his alignment as town. he also asked blu to claim, which seemed possibly anti-town to me. 

- voting stryke as an inactive yeet when we weren't even halfway through D1 doesn't seem like a move that town!ultracool would do

- there are a few instances of UC saying things to appear solve-y that make it clear he wasn't really thinking through the things he suggested... the suggestion that i was untargetable was one, the suggestion to watch himself being another. the latter seemed almost like a desperate attempt to appear helpful

- this may be pushing too much into the tinfoil territory, but i almost feel like the cat puns and cat emojis and sad reacting to people suspecting them is all a part of an act to get us to let our guard down. i have seen other mafia do the same thing in the past, and i kind of have a suspicion that ultracool is trying to build up this facade of an innocent townie. i'll have to go back and find some examples later

that's kind of all my thoughts so far on UC unless I forgot something else. It's not airtight and I think rari's reasons for suspecting zori are slightly more convincing, but i'd like to take another look at UC tomorrow if zori does become the leading wagon. iirc zori said that ultracool was very likely town, which seemed... weird. i don't remember if they had any other interactions


----------



## Herbe

vm has successfully regained my trust
i could see a zori/mr. Cool w/w


----------



## Stryke

My initial thoughts are that zori seems more suspicious than Ultracool, rari made some very great points, but I am a petty petty man and a part of me wants to vote Ultracool because I was the inactive he proposed lynching


----------



## Herbe

i particularly like the point abt getting ppl to let their guard down cause that's right out of my Mr. Friendly tvt playbook haha


----------



## Vipera Magnifica

Herbe said:


> i particularly like the point abt getting ppl to let their guard down cause that's right out of my Mr. Friendly tvt playbook haha


i was going to use your tvt play as an example because ultracool's play in this game looks strikingly similar to that


----------



## bruh moment

Vipera Magnifica said:


> Herbe said:
> 
> 
> 
> i particularly like the point abt getting ppl to let their guard down cause that's right out of my Mr. Friendly tvt playbook haha
> 
> 
> 
> i was going to use your tvt play as an example because ultracool's play in this game looks strikingly similar to that
Click to expand...

i think it would be more topical to compare it to _ultracool's_ other scum game tbh, but i see the rest of the points you make
-m


----------



## Vipera Magnifica

Mr. Ultracool said:


> JackPK said:
> 
> 
> 
> For now, I don't like Ultracool's posts so far and I like having him as one of the wagons
> 
> 
> 
> What am I doing wrong? Did I claimeow too soon?
Click to expand...


----------



## qenya

abbreviated chickenthoughts because today's high was 32 degrees and i'm barely conscious- fingers crossed the storm hits soon-

hmm... i also noticed the problems rari/skytini/ysabel are pointing out with zori, but it seems to me a little too good to be true. zori is an excellent mafia player and I just can't see her involuntarily giving up this much evidence against herself. i know i tend to jump to this conclusion an awful lot, but i'm wondering if it may be worth considering the possibility that she's currently an activated alien?

don't get me wrong, i think she's the best lead at the moment, i'm just a little uneasy with the rapidity with which she drew suspicion onto herself, especially after a deathless n0. though i suppose that's also exactly what happened in ooctvt, so... idk. well, you've got the idea.

where i'm at right now with ultracool is that while his cunning plan is highly unlikely to work out, coming up with unworkable plans is very much a thing he does, as the other scum from Cats (2019) can attest. in that game he developed a bizarrely complicated fakeclaim that even we didn't understand, and stuck with it when it had no chance whatsoever of convincing everyone. feels exceptionally similar to what he's trying to do now with the baiting-mafia-to-target-him, with the only difference being that if hell froze over and it worked out, it would help town rather than mafia. atm i think balance of probability is probably that this is in fact a genuine Ultracool Plan rather than an attempt to fake the existence of one.

i don't have a great sense of where i stand on anyone else yet, sorry. except possibly blu, who seemed extremely pure of heart, but then again he always does. i also haven't set up my usual spreadsheet yet so that's definitely hindering Thought Formation. gonna go back and reread vm, at least, tomorrow


----------



## bruh moment

Vipera Magnifica said:


> Mr. Ultracool said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> JackPK said:
> 
> 
> 
> For now, I don't like Ultracool's posts so far and I like having him as one of the wagons
> 
> 
> 
> What am I doing wrong? Did I claimeow too soon?
> 
> Click to expand...
Click to expand...

i counter with this post from town!uc in tarot


Mr. Ultracool said:


> What is so wolfy about me? Should I claim more than being the Wheel of Fortune and giving out free items to whoever visits me like a friendly neighbourhood PEZ- Dispenser?


----------



## bruh moment

to be clear i think ultracool is definitely worth talking about, i just really think that "he's acting weird/jovial" on its own is entirely in his town range
-m


----------



## Herbe

bruh moment said:


> i think it would be more topical to compare it to _ultracool's_ other scum game tbh, but i see the rest of the points you make


that's a solid point! i'll acknowledge that it's a play scum can use but it doesn't mean that that's uc's meta


bruh moment said:


> Vipera Magnifica said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mr. Ultracool said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> JackPK said:
> 
> 
> 
> For now, I don't like Ultracool's posts so far and I like having him as one of the wagons
> 
> 
> 
> What am I doing wrong? Did I claimeow too soon?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> i counter with this post from town!uc in tarot
> 
> 
> Mr. Ultracool said:
> 
> 
> 
> What is so wolfy about me? Should I claim more than being the Wheel of Fortune and giving out free items to whoever visits me like a friendly neighbourhood PEZ- Dispenser?
> 
> Click to expand...
Click to expand...

also a solid point!


----------



## rari_teh

kokorico said:


> hmm... i also noticed the problems rari/skytini/ysabel are pointing out with zori, but it seems to me a little too good to be true. zori is an excellent mafia player and I just can't see her involuntarily giving up this much evidence against herself. i know i tend to jump to this conclusion an awful lot, but i'm wondering if it may be worth considering the possibility that she's currently an activated alien?


i applaud your courage for bringing this up considering all instances i remember of you raising this possibility you were w/w with the alleged alien
i’m not saying you’re w/w with zori yet, it’s just. an observation.


----------



## rari_teh

kokorico said:


> where i'm at right now with ultracool is that while his cunning plan is highly unlikely to work out, coming up with unworkable plans is very much a thing he does, as the other scum from Cats (2019) can attest. in that game he developed a bizarrely complicated fakeclaim that even we didn't understand, and stuck with it when it had no chance whatsoever of convincing everyone. feels exceptionally similar to what he's trying to do now with the baiting-mafia-to-target-him, with the only difference being that if hell froze over and it worked out, it would help town rather than mafia. atm i think balance of probability is probably that this is in fact a genuine Ultracool Plan rather than an attempt to fake the existence of one.


btw i can attest to this and fully subscribe to this read


----------



## bruh moment

kokorico said:


> it seems to me a little too good to be true. zori is an excellent mafia player and I just can't see her involuntarily giving up this much evidence against herself.


yeah ... i thought exactly this about her in ooc, went "maybe this is just too much," and then proceeded to lynch wolf d1. so i don't know about this take
-m


----------



## Mawile

bruh moment said:


> kokorico said:
> 
> 
> 
> it seems to me a little too good to be true. zori is an excellent mafia player and I just can't see her involuntarily giving up this much evidence against herself.
> 
> 
> 
> yeah ... i thought exactly this about her in ooc, went "maybe this is just too much," and then proceeded to lynch wolf d1. so i don't know about this take
> -m
Click to expand...

tbf zori in ooctvt also straight up "joke"claimed her mafia alignment and flavor (sort of) on the first page or two


----------



## Vipera Magnifica

bruh moment said:


> Vipera Magnifica said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Herbe said:
> 
> 
> 
> i particularly like the point abt getting ppl to let their guard down cause that's right out of my Mr. Friendly tvt playbook haha
> 
> 
> 
> i was going to use your tvt play as an example because ultracool's play in this game looks strikingly similar to that
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> i think it would be more topical to compare it to _ultracool's_ other scum game tbh, but i see the rest of the points you make
> -m
Click to expand...

i can't really say if it matches any existing scumplay, but it pinged me as different enough from my understanding of their townplay that it might just be scum!ultracool trying a new appraoch

one example, ultracool was abstaining in tarot mafia when no one else would; however, in this game he wanted to vote inactive players, which seems pretty different


----------



## bruh moment

Vipera Magnifica said:


> i can't really say if it matches any existing scumplay,


he was mafia in cats!


Vipera Magnifica said:


> it pinged me as different enough from my understanding of their townplay that it might just be scum!ultracool trying a new appraoch
> 
> one example, ultracool was abstaining in tarot mafia when no one else would; however, in this game he wanted to vote inactive players, which seems pretty different


yeah, i understand. i'm weighing "how close is this to tarot" against "how far is this from cats" and it comes out a lot closer to the first thing imo. 
fwiw i don't really think that that specific point is all that damning, like, i'm also used to you abstaining more than not
-m


----------



## bruh moment

kokorico said:


> where i'm at right now with ultracool is that while his cunning plan is highly unlikely to work out, coming up with unworkable plans is very much a thing he does, as the other scum from Cats (2019) can attest. in that game he developed a bizarrely complicated fakeclaim that even we didn't understand, and stuck with it when it had no chance whatsoever of convincing everyone


another thing to add is that, in this case, (i assume) this happened in scumchat, even though he was pretty quiet inthread - as opposed to him publicly working through his thoughts here
-m


----------



## Vipera Magnifica

bruh moment said:


> he was mafia in cats!





bruh moment said:


> Vipera Magnifica said:
> 
> 
> 
> i can't really say if it matches any existing scumplay,
> 
> 
> 
> he was mafia in cats!
Click to expand...

he lurked for like 99% of that game so i can't say i have a very solid grasp of how he'd play as scum

i have more of an understanding of his townplay since i GM'd one of the games where he was town


----------



## rari_teh

bruh moment said:


> another thing to add is that, in this case, (i assume) this happened in scumchat, even though he was pretty quiet inthread - as opposed to him publicly working through his thoughts here


also can attest that he was one of the most active people in scumchat until his demise


----------



## bruh moment

tl;dr obviously meta can/does change. but the trajectory stemming from cats is a lot weirder than the trajectory stemming from tarot here.
and now i will go back to doing useful things, like reading what i missed
-m


----------



## Ys_

Herbe said:


> i have made the Executive Decision that kokorico is mafia-aligned
> no i will not elaborate


???
Was this a joke post or serious?

I'm not sure about what to think in regard to Mr UM. I can see where Jack and VM are coming from but I also think their arguments are not super solid. However, his own reasoning isn't super solid either. Mr UM if you're town I don't think your role is as useless as you seem to think it is. You could potentially find one of the maf killers o_o



kokorico said:


> ...being serious, though, I was going to chew people out for revealing stuff this early in the game, but actually I'm starting to wonder whether the traditional received wisdom of "avoid hinting at your role, even vaguely talking about how powerful it is, to stop the mafia figuring out the best targets" is still valid? it seems like many actions have a cost in badges to use, which means they're useless unless you can successfully indicate to your townie allies how useful it would be for them to distribute theirs to you. I don't think I'm quite at the point of wanting to actually claim anything, but... hmm. anyone want to try to talk me into it or out of it?


i'd personally suggest claiming your badge power if you think it's worth it, but the normal power is still better kept as secret at least for now. of course we already have claims..

also about that badge theory, mafia doesn't have any control over who the dead players give theirs to. The only way they could influence it is by gaining town's trust. Unless mafia has a role like badge-stealer? or if VM's power could also redirect given badges onto himself?

rari, thanks for your post, i really like how clearly you pointed out the wewirdness about Zori, and to be honest I am already considering her as a possible vote.

Also I'm wondering if both Zori and Mr UM are a scumteam? since they both seem to be fishing out for roles and badges. Otherwise, if one of them is mafia, their team could be trying to push for the other wagon


----------



## bruh moment

Vipera Magnifica said:


> he lurked for like 99% of that game so i can't say i have a very solid grasp of how he'd play as scum


i kind of think he WAS playing though, he was apparently active in scumchat
-m


----------



## Herbe

Ysabel said:


> Herbe said:
> 
> 
> 
> i have made the Executive Decision that kokorico is mafia-aligned
> no i will not elaborate
> 
> 
> 
> ???
> Was this a joke post or serious?
Click to expand...




Herbe said:


> no i will not elaborate


----------



## Herbe

gotta commit to the bit fellas


----------



## Vipera Magnifica

bruh moment said:


> Vipera Magnifica said:
> 
> 
> 
> he lurked for like 99% of that game so i can't say i have a very solid grasp of how he'd play as scum
> 
> 
> 
> i kind of think he WAS playing though, he was apparently active in scumchat
> -m
Click to expand...

i just saw rari's post, and i was not aware of this

i think that's all i want to talk about UC for now because i've been tunneling a lot on him and i think the discussion should be about zori right now


----------



## Ys_

btw i was writing this post before taking into account a lot of the posts on page 18 since they happened pretty fast. i can understand VM's points now and I don't think he's necessarily maf for pushing Mr UC but I still think Zori has been weirder and rari's reasoning more solid.


----------



## Vipera Magnifica

i trust rari's reads on zori more than i trust my own on ultracool


----------



## JackPK

Ysabel said:


> Unless mafia has a role like badge-stealer?


I would absolutely assume a role like that is potentially (even likely!) in play

if I were in MF's shoes and I were making a setup like this, that would be one of the very first roles I would come up with


----------



## qenya

rari_teh said:


> kokorico said:
> 
> 
> 
> hmm... i also noticed the problems rari/skytini/ysabel are pointing out with zori, but it seems to me a little too good to be true. zori is an excellent mafia player and I just can't see her involuntarily giving up this much evidence against herself. i know i tend to jump to this conclusion an awful lot, but i'm wondering if it may be worth considering the possibility that she's currently an activated alien?
> 
> 
> 
> i applaud your courage for bringing this up considering all instances i remember of you raising this possibility you were w/w with the alleged alien
> i’m not saying you’re w/w with zori yet, it’s just. an observation.
Click to expand...

oh totally, i thought long and hard before bringing it up because I knew someone would remember that... ultimately i thought self-censoring was probably going to be less helpful, as i'm sure this has occurred to at least one other person.

to be absolutely clear, if the wagons at eod are zori/ultracool i probably would go for zori, assuming nothing comes up between now and then to change my view. it's a _risk_, sure, and i wanted to make sure it got vetted and didn't just fly under the radar, but i don't think any of the reasons to scumread her are actively _wrong_



Ysabel said:


> Also I'm wondering if both Zori and Mr UM are a scumteam? since they both seem to be fishing out for roles and badges. Otherwise, if one of them is mafia, their team could be trying to push for the other wagon


if this is the case, i think it's a bit odd that nobody has presented any other possible candidates. there's rnp i guess, but i don't think anyone's seriously considering yeeting him


----------



## Vipera Magnifica

I thought about the possibility of a badge stealer earlier; glad I'm not the only one who thought of that.


----------



## bruh moment

kokorico said:


> i think it's a bit odd that nobody has presented any other possible candidates


is it? we're not that deep into the day
i kinda wanted to ask if anyone wanted to talk about anyone else but didn't want to derail lol
-m


----------



## Mawile

Vipera Magnifica said:


> I thought about the possibility of a badge stealer earlier; glad I'm not the only one who thought of that.


i was thinking about badge stealer, but maybe "badge stealer from the dead" since something similar existed in pokken tournament mfia, and since we can't redistribute badges we're given so they're lost to The Void


----------



## rari_teh

kokorico said:


> if this is the case, i think it's a bit odd that nobody has presented any other possible candidates. there's rnp i guess, but i don't think anyone's seriously considering yeeting him


there’s also a vote on rnp, but i don’t think wagonomics leads us anywhere fruitful. you would be cleared by association on ooc because of how your wagon played out against zori’s if qva didn’t get a redcheck on you by chance alone


----------



## bruh moment

bruh moment said:


> kokorico said:
> 
> 
> 
> i think it's a bit odd that nobody has presented any other possible candidates
> 
> 
> 
> is it? we're not that deep into the day
> i kinda wanted to ask if anyone wanted to talk about anyone else but didn't want to derail lol
> -m
Click to expand...

oh wait, i don't necessarily think that both wagons are mafia, either. i didn't fully uh. read koko's post before replying.  for literacy


----------



## bruh moment

bruh moment said:


> for literacy


ew wtf. i wanted  instead


----------



## rari_teh

Mawile said:


> Vipera Magnifica said:
> 
> 
> 
> I thought about the possibility of a badge stealer earlier; glad I'm not the only one who thought of that.
> 
> 
> 
> i was thinking about badge stealer, but maybe "badge stealer from the dead" since something similar existed in pokken tournament mfia, and since we can't redistribute badges we're given so they're lost to The Void
Click to expand...

fantastic take tbh
taking into account you said that mf tends to reuse roles, i wouldn’t be surprised at all if this existed here


----------



## qenya

bruh moment said:


> kokorico said:
> 
> 
> 
> i think it's a bit odd that nobody has presented any other possible candidates
> 
> 
> 
> is it? we're not that deep into the day
Click to expand...

not in general, just if the current wagons are w/w


----------



## rari_teh

rari_teh said:


> kokorico said:
> 
> 
> 
> if this is the case, i think it's a bit odd that nobody has presented any other possible candidates. there's rnp i guess, but i don't think anyone's seriously considering yeeting him
> 
> 
> 
> there’s also a vote on rnp, but i don’t think wagonomics leads us anywhere fruitful. you would be cleared by association on ooc because of how your wagon played out against zori’s if qva didn’t get a redcheck on you by chance alone
Click to expand...

i’m illiterate. there’s a vote on vm, _by_ rnp


----------



## Hydreigon25

this has my thinking  that everyone needs a certain number of badges to activate one of their abilities

scenario 1 - No N0 kills because mafia has not enough badges for the ability ( assuming everyone needs at least a certain amount of badge(s) ) so if we yeet someone & if the mafia ( or out-group ) gets their badge that will be bad for _Town_
scenario 2 -N0 night 0 kills because there could be a role-blocker, bus driver, doctor, or something else that might help/or/affect town depending on their alignment


----------



## Vipera Magnifica

bruh moment said:


> kokorico said:
> 
> 
> 
> i think it's a bit odd that nobody has presented any other possible candidates
> 
> 
> 
> is it? we're not that deep into the day
> i kinda wanted to ask if anyone wanted to talk about anyone else but didn't want to derail lol
> -m
Click to expand...

it wouldn't be that weird given how ooc played out


kokorico said:


> bruh moment said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> kokorico said:
> 
> 
> 
> i think it's a bit odd that nobody has presented any other possible candidates
> 
> 
> 
> is it? we're not that deep into the day
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> not in general, just if the current wagons are w/w
Click to expand...

it wouldn't be that weird given how ooc played out


----------



## Vipera Magnifica

why did that quote twice


----------



## qenya

Hydreigon25 said:


> scenario 1 - No N0 kills because mafia has not enough badges for the ability ( assuming everyone needs at least a certain amount of badge(s) ) so if we yeet someone & if the mafia ( or out-group ) gets their badge that will be bad for _Town_


Jack pointed out earlier that this is quite unlikely, because it would be difficult for the mafia to pick up badges reliably near the beginning of the game.


----------



## qenya

Vipera Magnifica said:


> it wouldn't be that weird given how ooc played out


I... guess

I can't remember what our rationale was for not trying to divert the wagons in ooctvt d1, let me go check quickly


----------



## rari_teh

if i’d guess i’d say that they probably chose to push zori under the bus to clear koko by association


----------



## bruh moment

honestly i do think that more often than not, what happened in ooc d1 would have yielded a w/v pair
i just also don't think that it's anything we can draw judgments on seshas/uc from when we're not halfway through the Day
-m


----------



## qenya

kokorico said:


> Vipera Magnifica said:
> 
> 
> 
> it wouldn't be that weird given how ooc played out
> 
> 
> 
> I... guess
> 
> I can't remember what our rationale was for not trying to divert the wagons in ooctvt d1, let me go check quickly
Click to expand...

aha. seshas and I were in favour of starting a third wagon in principle, but neither of us could do it without implicating the other by seeming unwilling to vote for them even to save ourselves, and keldeo and butterfree were both occupied irl

so... just kinda sleepwalked into it, basically, there wasn't any rationalisation behind it. I don't think we should treat it as necessarily the start of a precedent in meta.


----------



## Zori

I do not in fact give out 8 badges on death, and I think claiming badge numbers just limits the number of badges town can distribute

I'm slightly side-eyeing Blu for gut reasons I can't really explain?
I still like Ultracool vaguely, and dislike koko
rari/mewtfetch'd probably town, VM/Jack are vibing


----------



## Herbe

is eod tonight?


----------



## Negrek

It hasn't even been 24 hours.

I'll be back later tonight.


----------



## bruh moment

Herbe said:


> is eod tonight?


tomorrow!


----------



## Herbe

my sense of time is ~~~busted~~~!!!!
hi negrek o/


----------



## rari_teh

i also thought EoD was today until It Hit Me tbh


----------



## M&F

Vipera Magnifica said:


> @MampersandF Is it public knowledge who receives the badges from dead players?


oh huh, this was in my quotes, did I forget to answer earlier? anyways, the answer is no



Negrek said:


> It hasn't even been 24 hours.


*it has now been 24 hours*

running vote totals:
-Zori (3): rari_teh (#96), Herbe (#329), Vipera Magnifica (#352)
-Mr. Ultracool (1): JackPK (#348)



Spoiler: previous votes



-Stryke: Mr. Ultracool (#182)
-Mr. Ultracool: Vipera Magnifica (#206), Herbe (#228)


----------



## bruh moment

JackPK said:


> not sure how I feel about Zori at this time, I was pretty  at first and that sense has lessened somewhat, but idk whether that's actually me reading her posts positively or if she's just good at pocketing (could be both tbh)


 i'd be interested in hearing what exactly lessened your  vibes, because zori's posting has just made me feel worse with time.


Vipera Magnifica said:


> - there are a few instances of UC saying things to appear solve-y that make it clear he wasn't really thinking through the things he suggested... the suggestion that i was untargetable was one, the suggestion to watch himself being another. the latter seemed almost like a desperate attempt to appear helpful


 not sure i like the idea of scumreading people because they're trying too hard to be helpful.  seems a bit cynical.  the fact that he isn't thinking his positions all the way through is not alignment-indicative imo.


kokorico said:


> zori is an excellent mafia player and I just can't see her involuntarily giving up this much evidence against herself.


 this is probably the most slippery slope of slippery slopes.


Vipera Magnifica said:


> one example, ultracool was abstaining in tarot mafia when no one else would; however, in this game he wanted to vote inactive players, which seems pretty different


 does this not also apply to you?


rari_teh said:


> if qva didn’t get a redcheck on you by chance alone


 

might come back soon with some more developed thoughts and questions.
-q


----------



## bruh moment

MampersandF said:


> Vipera Magnifica said:
> 
> 
> 
> @MampersandF Is it public knowledge who receives the badges from dead players?
> 
> 
> 
> oh huh, this was in my quotes, did I forget to answer earlier? anyways, the answer is no
> 
> 
> 
> Negrek said:
> 
> 
> 
> It hasn't even been 24 hours.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *it has now been 24 hours*
> 
> running vote totals:
> -Zori (3): rari_teh (#96), Herbe (#329), Vipera Magnifica (#352)
> -Mr. Ultracool (1): JackPK (#348)
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler: previous votes
> 
> 
> 
> -Stryke: Mr. Ultracool (#182)
> -Mr. Ultracool: Vipera Magnifica (#206), Herbe (#228)
Click to expand...

think the vote history missed rnp voting on vm in 190, if my notes r to be trusted
-m


----------



## rari_teh

my notes agree with bruh’s notes


----------



## bruh moment

rari_teh said:


> my notes agree with bruh’s notes


bruh, nice
-m


----------



## M&F

so much for ISOing to double check! yeah, seems like that's correct


----------



## Bluwiikoon

Huge shoutouts to mewt and rari for keeping notes so the vote totals are correct  MVPs!!!

Also, sorry for the react spam! Will have to compose some thoughts when my brain activates the thinking ^^ Just thought I'd say hewwo and hydrate!


----------



## JackPK

bruh moment said:


> JackPK said:
> 
> 
> 
> not sure how I feel about Zori at this time, I was pretty  at first and that sense has lessened somewhat, but idk whether that's actually me reading her posts positively or if she's just good at pocketing (could be both tbh)
> 
> 
> 
> i'd be interested in hearing what exactly lessened your  vibes, because zori's posting has just made me feel worse with time.
Click to expand...

ah yeah your other head asked about this too and I answered off the cuff in #343, but if you want me to go back and actually dig up posts, I can do that (I just think it's not so relevant now that my    vibes are back up)


----------



## Vipera Magnifica

MampersandF said:


> running vote totals:
> -Zori (3): rari_teh (#96), Herbe (#329), Vipera Magnifica (#352)
> -Mr. Ultracool (1): JackPK (#348)


wow, I thought more people had voted already


----------



## RedneckPhoenix

imagine having notes and not playing mafia with the 4th heaviest organ in my body


----------



## JackPK

RedneckPhoenix said:


> imagine having notes and not playing mafia with the 4th heaviest organ in my body




you're playing mafia with your lungs?


----------



## RedneckPhoenix

Hydreigon25 said:


> this has my thinking  that everyone needs a certain number of badges to activate one of their abilities


hydreigon it's really hard not to call you out when you just now deduced something that was stated in the sign-up thread


----------



## RedneckPhoenix

JackPK said:


> RedneckPhoenix said:
> 
> 
> 
> imagine having notes and not playing mafia with the 4th heaviest organ in my body
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 738
> 
> you're playing mafia with your lungs?
Click to expand...

i'm very fat so my intestines are heavier


----------



## Herbe

why is the liver so fucking hefty???


----------



## RedneckPhoenix

i was actually making a wild guess i'm impressed that i was only one off


----------



## Vipera Magnifica

post 420


----------



## RedneckPhoenix

Herbe said:


> why is the liver so fucking hefty???


probably something to do with toxins in early human diets


----------



## bruh moment

Herbe said:


> why is the liver so fucking hefty???


 it stores all your life in it, hence the name: "Liver"
-q


----------



## Mawile

bruh moment said:


> Herbe said:
> 
> 
> 
> why is the liver so fucking hefty???
> 
> 
> 
> it stores all your life in it, hence the name: "Liver"
> -q
Click to expand...

lifer


----------



## Vipera Magnifica

I’m so used to something crazy happening in the middle of a day phase that it’s almost refreshing to just have regular discussion.

And I haven’t even had to use my lie detector yet.


----------



## JackPK

*attach lie detector to Vipera Magnifica*

question 1. do you have a lie detector--


----------



## Vipera Magnifica

JackPK said:


> *attach lie detector to Vipera Magnifica*
> 
> question 1. do you have a lie detector--


I’m not speaking without my lawyer present


----------



## Bluwiikoon

Vipera Magnifica said:


> post 420


Welp, that's a wrap! VM won the game


----------



## bruh moment

Vipera Magnifica said:


> JackPK said:
> 
> 
> 
> *attach lie detector to Vipera Magnifica*
> 
> question 1. do you have a lie detector--
> 
> 
> 
> I’m not speaking without my lawyer present
Click to expand...

modkill vm tbh. he literally just spoke here.
-m


----------



## Vipera Magnifica

bruh moment said:


> Vipera Magnifica said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> JackPK said:
> 
> 
> 
> *attach lie detector to Vipera Magnifica*
> 
> question 1. do you have a lie detector--
> 
> 
> 
> I’m not speaking without my lawyer present
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> modkill vm tbh. he literally just spoke here.
> -m
Click to expand...

but doctor... I am my lawyer


----------



## Hydreigon25

*Connects a **lie detector to*​* RedneckPhoenix *

question 1. do you have an ability that will hurt town more than help ?
question 2. are you a mafia aligned or outgroup ?


----------



## Mawile

Hydreigon25 said:


> *lie detector to*


please stop doing the colored text


----------



## Bluwiikoon

Bruh


----------



## bruh moment

Bluwiikoon said:


> Bruh


----------



## RedneckPhoenix

Hydreigon25 said:


> *Connects a
> lie detector to
> RedneckPhoenix *
> 
> question 1. do you have an ability that will hurt town more than help ?
> question 2. are you a mafia aligned or outgroup ?


1. yes
2. both


----------



## RedneckPhoenix

hydreigon i get you're mad at me for bringing attention to things you do wrong that people keep telling you how to do right, but i'm the vengeful one here so don't touch my racket


----------



## RedneckPhoenix

also drayden was literally free to take as a dragon type leader


----------



## Bluwiikoon

That's a bluff, right? Right??


----------



## RedneckPhoenix

as was iris.


----------



## RedneckPhoenix

Bluwiikoon said:


> That's a bluff, right? Right??


it's better for my poker game if i tell you i never bluff


----------



## Hydreigon25

i would've selected Lance but is a part of the Elite 4 / Champion


----------



## Zori

*Attach Lightning Rod to kokorico*

It's like a lie detector but utilizing mod-induced lightning bolts (and potentially amphy-induced lightning bolts) instead


----------



## Zori

Zori said:


> *Attach Lightning Rod to kokorico*
> 
> It's like a lie detector but utilizing mod-induced lightning bolts (and potentially amphy-induced lightning bolts) instead


to be clear this is not a part of my role
but I am still FoS'ing koko slightly, although I won't be able to shoot tonight because no badges


----------



## Negrek

I'm not feeling super compelled by a lynch on either Zori or Mr. Ultracool at the moment, but I'm not feeling super compelled to lynch at all--with no deaths the first night, we essentially have another "free night" for inforoles with a decreased information disparity between Town and Mafia. In this scenario I think the downside of mislynching is higher than usual, since the worst case with no lynch is simply "another N0 but Town gets a second swing at all inforoles," compared to the worst case with a mislynch being "another N0 but Town gets a second swing at all inforoles, excluding the one we jettisoned." If absolutely forced to choose, I feel worse about Zori than Mr. Ultracool at the moment.



Tofu said:


> Anyway, I'll claim because I don't have a problem with people knowing, and it sounds like I wouldn't be a prime target atm:
> 
> I think mine like a one-shot ability duplicator: with my photography skills, I can choose a person to copy their action. Then, the next night or day phase (it said night or day? Are there day actions?), I will use that action. It could be useful if I know for sure who I am copying, but could also just fail if people fake roleclaim, so I'm a bit hesitant about it (especially now early game). Like I said, it's only a one-shot as well.
> 
> Just for reference in case people missed my other post: when I die, I can give two badges to someone of my choosing.


Hmm, so if I understand this right, you'd first use your ability in the night, targeting a person, and then MF would send you a PM saying what the ability you obtained was? Or are you not informed of what ability you get and just automatically use it at the next opportunity? Do you get to pick the target for your copied ability, or is it random, or perhaps aimed at the same player as the ability was originally aimed at?

If you're told the ability you got, even before you use it, this still seems quite powerful for its ability to confirm a claim... and obviously if you copied something useful, it could be quite powerful to get a second instance of it for a night.



RedneckPhoenix said:


> bruh moment said:
> 
> 
> 
> rnp if you're telling the truth it was massively unwise to reveal your role like that tbh
> -q
> 
> 
> 
> yeah let me just grab 8 badges out of my fuckin cookie jar and pull out this power that notifies the mafia of when i'm using it
Click to expand...

I'm confused, do you mean the mafia would literally receive a system message telling them that they would all need to target you or have their alignments revealed to you, or just that they would know you'd used it because they would see the trigger phrase?

Also, what's the flavor for your abilities?


----------



## Ys_

Before I forget-- *zori*



kokorico said:


> if this is the case, i think it's a bit odd that nobody has presented any other possible candidates. there's rnp i guess, but i don't think anyone's seriously considering yeeting him


Hmm good point. It would be great if that was the case, but eh it's not super likely, I guess.

Btw though, I'd like to hear your own thoughts on the two wagons, when you have time?


----------



## RedneckPhoenix

Negrek said:


> I'm not feeling super compelled by a lynch on either Zori or Mr. Ultracool at the moment, but I'm not feeling super compelled to lynch at all--with no deaths the first night, we essentially have another "free night" for inforoles with a decreased information disparity between Town and Mafia. In this scenario I think the downside of mislynching is higher than usual, since the worst case with no lynch is simply "another N0 but Town gets a second swing at all inforoles," compared to the worst case with a mislynch being "another N0 but Town gets a second swing at all inforoles, excluding the one we jettisoned." If absolutely forced to choose, I feel worse about Zori than Mr. Ultracool at the moment.
> 
> 
> 
> Tofu said:
> 
> 
> 
> Anyway, I'll claim because I don't have a problem with people knowing, and it sounds like I wouldn't be a prime target atm:
> 
> I think mine like a one-shot ability duplicator: with my photography skills, I can choose a person to copy their action. Then, the next night or day phase (it said night or day? Are there day actions?), I will use that action. It could be useful if I know for sure who I am copying, but could also just fail if people fake roleclaim, so I'm a bit hesitant about it (especially now early game). Like I said, it's only a one-shot as well.
> 
> Just for reference in case people missed my other post: when I die, I can give two badges to someone of my choosing.
> 
> 
> 
> Hmm, so if I understand this right, you'd first use your ability in the night, targeting a person, and then MF would send you a PM saying what the ability you obtained was? Or are you not informed of what ability you get and just automatically use it at the next opportunity? Do you get to pick the target for your copied ability, or is it random, or perhaps aimed at the same player as the ability was originally aimed at?
> 
> If you're told the ability you got, even before you use it, this still seems quite powerful for its ability to confirm a claim... and obviously if you copied something useful, it could be quite powerful to get a second instance of it for a night.
> 
> 
> 
> RedneckPhoenix said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bruh moment said:
> 
> 
> 
> rnp if you're telling the truth it was massively unwise to reveal your role like that tbh
> -q
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> yeah let me just grab 8 badges out of my fuckin cookie jar and pull out this power that notifies the mafia of when i'm using it
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I'm confused, do you mean the mafia would literally receive a system message telling them that they would all need to target you or have their alignments revealed to you, or just that they would know you'd used it because they would see the trigger phrase?
> 
> Also, what's the flavor for your abilities?
Click to expand...

intimidate, cuzza my Stoutland, and Journey, cuz i actually, yknow, rivalled the main character of bw1 and went on a journey before i became a leader in bw2


----------



## RedneckPhoenix

i would have personally gone for, like, Odor Sleuth or Take Down or, fuckin, i dunno, Retaliate, but far be it from me to criticize the illustrious gm


----------



## Mr. Ultracool

RedneckPhoenix said:


> i would have personally gone for, like, Odor Sleuth or Take Down or, fuckin, i dunno, Retaliate, but far be it from me to criticize the illustrious gm


It could be worse; your Meowtland could have, say, Yawn...


----------



## Negrek

RedneckPhoenix said:


> Negrek said:
> 
> 
> 
> I'm not feeling super compelled by a lynch on either Zori or Mr. Ultracool at the moment, but I'm not feeling super compelled to lynch at all--with no deaths the first night, we essentially have another "free night" for inforoles with a decreased information disparity between Town and Mafia. In this scenario I think the downside of mislynching is higher than usual, since the worst case with no lynch is simply "another N0 but Town gets a second swing at all inforoles," compared to the worst case with a mislynch being "another N0 but Town gets a second swing at all inforoles, excluding the one we jettisoned." If absolutely forced to choose, I feel worse about Zori than Mr. Ultracool at the moment.
> 
> 
> 
> Tofu said:
> 
> 
> 
> Anyway, I'll claim because I don't have a problem with people knowing, and it sounds like I wouldn't be a prime target atm:
> 
> I think mine like a one-shot ability duplicator: with my photography skills, I can choose a person to copy their action. Then, the next night or day phase (it said night or day? Are there day actions?), I will use that action. It could be useful if I know for sure who I am copying, but could also just fail if people fake roleclaim, so I'm a bit hesitant about it (especially now early game). Like I said, it's only a one-shot as well.
> 
> Just for reference in case people missed my other post: when I die, I can give two badges to someone of my choosing.
> 
> 
> 
> Hmm, so if I understand this right, you'd first use your ability in the night, targeting a person, and then MF would send you a PM saying what the ability you obtained was? Or are you not informed of what ability you get and just automatically use it at the next opportunity? Do you get to pick the target for your copied ability, or is it random, or perhaps aimed at the same player as the ability was originally aimed at?
> 
> If you're told the ability you got, even before you use it, this still seems quite powerful for its ability to confirm a claim... and obviously if you copied something useful, it could be quite powerful to get a second instance of it for a night.
> 
> 
> 
> RedneckPhoenix said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bruh moment said:
> 
> 
> 
> rnp if you're telling the truth it was massively unwise to reveal your role like that tbh
> -q
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> yeah let me just grab 8 badges out of my fuckin cookie jar and pull out this power that notifies the mafia of when i'm using it
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I'm confused, do you mean the mafia would literally receive a system message telling them that they would all need to target you or have their alignments revealed to you, or just that they would know you'd used it because they would see the trigger phrase?
> 
> Also, what's the flavor for your abilities?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> intimidate, cuzza my Stoutland, and Journey, cuz i actually, yknow, rivalled the main character of bw1 and went on a journey before i became a leader in bw2
Click to expand...

Thanks! Does the mafia get notified outside of the thread what your ability means, or do they only know you've triggered it based on the trigger phrase appearing in the thread?


----------



## Negrek

(Speaking of day actions, it occurs to me that it's been awhile since I've seen an MFia game where someone was able to do The Thing. Too bad! I'm feeling all nostalgic now.)


----------



## Mawile

Negrek said:


> The Thing


The Thing is the gladiator-y thing that showed up in a couple (a few?) of past MFias, right?


----------



## Negrek

Mawile said:


> Negrek said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Thing
> 
> 
> 
> The Thing is the gladiator-y thing that showed up in a couple (a few?) of past MFias, right?
Click to expand...

Yeah! I think I might have been the first person to get to use the role. Good times.


----------



## RedneckPhoenix

they get told "you should visit redneckphoenix tonight".


----------



## RedneckPhoenix

or some flavor-y message


----------



## rari_teh

regardless of negrek’s intentions, i really don’t think you should have answered that, keith


----------



## rari_teh

wait. nvm


----------



## RedneckPhoenix

but, uh, let's, let's see how it transpires. 


cool. let's all iso mawile.


----------



## RedneckPhoenix

not for any particular reason i just don't like people telling me what to do


----------



## Negrek

RedneckPhoenix said:


> they get told "you should visit redneckphoenix tonight".


Huh, interesting. Thanks!

It's definitely an odd role, but not at all outside the realm of what I would expect from MF. If you're telling the truth about it, then yeah, I think bruh moment was right in that now the cat's out of the bag, it's unlikely we'll be able to take advantage of it. But it would be very powerful, and I wouldn't totally rule it out yet.

Also, if it's true, it implies that all the mafia have some sort of targeting night actions that can be used regardless of badge count, which I don't love. Unless MF was cool with some mafia members auto-failing and having their alignment revealed because they wouldn't have any powers that would allow them to "visit" RNP.


----------



## rari_teh

it’s a valid idea though
mawile has posted quite substantially and yet my thoughts about him are nowhere near solid


----------



## rari_teh

ninja’d


----------



## Mawile

tbh i don't really have a whole lot of Thoughts other than being at least somewhat confused by both zori and ultracool


----------



## Mawile

Mawile said:


> tbh i don't really have a whole lot of Thoughts other than being at least somewhat confused by both zori and ultracool


although i think to be fair this isn't the first game where people just go "mawile has posted a lot and yet i'm no thoughts head empty about him"


----------



## Mawile

Mawile said:


> Mawile said:
> 
> 
> 
> tbh i don't really have a whole lot of Thoughts other than being at least somewhat confused by both zori and ultracool
> 
> 
> 
> although i think to be fair this isn't the first game where people just go "mawile has posted a lot and yet i'm no thoughts head empty about him"
Click to expand...

you know if i had any foresight i would do the Thing, like where i leave breadcrumbs as a rolesoft for future me to rely on and be able to point to if i need it (like everyone else seems to do)

maybe later, if i can think of a clever enough way to do it that isn't just capital letter spellings, everyone does that


----------



## Mawile

Mawile said:


> breadcrumbs


gotta think of a way to phrase it so that it's not painstakingly obvious tho, cause if i outright said any Specific Words then that could be like way too obvious

anyway it is 1am and i am rambling. please @ me if you want to ask me specific things


----------



## Mr. Ultracool

Mawile said:


> Negrek said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Thing
> 
> 
> 
> The Thing is the gladiator-y thing that showed up in a couple (a few?) of past MFias, right?
Click to expand...

Wait a meowment, what kind of Thing™️ are you talking about? Meowbe it's just because I haven't been in a MFia yet, but it sounds like someowthing that would either be a cool thing for meownaligned players or something that'd meowjorly help the Mafia...
Should we maybe try to prevent It™️ from happening?


----------



## Mawile

Mr. Ultracool said:


> Mawile said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Negrek said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Thing
> 
> 
> 
> The Thing is the gladiator-y thing that showed up in a couple (a few?) of past MFias, right?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Wait a meowment, what kind of Thing™️ are you talking about? Meowbe it's just because I haven't been in a MFia yet, but it sounds like someowthing that would either be a cool thing for meownaligned players or something that'd meowjorly help the Mafia...
> Should we maybe try to prevent It™️ from happening?
Click to expand...

this is an example of the gladiator-y thing


----------



## Mawile

basically, the person with the power chooses two people and they're the only ones who can talk and everyone else can only vote


----------



## Zero Moment

aaaaaaa 18 pages of reading at 1am. the majority of it has gone through my eyes and out my ears. let's try and see which of the notable things I witnessed I remember:
the zori claim feels weird. why would you claim vig d1? smells like some kind of gambit
something happened with UC but I don't remember what. just being their usual self? idk
the tracker/vm/Third Involved Player dealio. tracker saw TIP visit vm, vm reveals he redirected to himself. this interaction feels... legit? it rings as correct role interaction. However, as someone else pointed out, neither 'role' is necessarily alignment-indicative, and some text in one of my abilities has... interesting implications, though possibly not relevant right now. also, was TIP not informed of they were swapped?
aaand that's all I got. pretty sure I missed a lot more in there.


----------



## Bluwiikoon

I didn't know I got swapped until sir Ultracool pointed out what he Saw, and until VM confirmed that he redirected actions targeted @ kokorico towards himself (I used an action on kokorico) ^^


----------



## Vipera Magnifica

I think now only myuma hasn’t posted yet? Though they’ve been reacting to posts.


----------



## Ys_

Time for Reads:


Spoiler



*Nanu *(me)
Me

*Alolan Persian *(asset to town) 
rari
bm

*Alolan Meowth *(helpful/believable claim)
RNP
Mr UM
Blu
Mawile
Tofu
Jack

*Pikachu *(neutral/pls post more) 
Herbe
Kokoriko
VM
Stryke
Negrek
Hydreigon
ZM
Myuma

*Mimikyu *(scummy/antitown) 
Zori



Negrek do you think if we abstain we could get better results tomorrow since people have claimed/town's actions wouldn't be as random? Do you think the benefits of that outweigh the possibility of giving mafia a (more informed) chance of killing?

RNP you said some people were playing similarly to when you were yeeted over a red check. Did you mean someone in particular or in general?


----------



## Zori

*kokorico*
ysabel likelierish to be town?


----------



## Zori

[rari_teh/bruh moment] - Wooloo
[RedneckPhoenix/Mr. Ultracool]

[Ysabel]
[Vipera Magnifica/JackPK] - Weh

[Tofu]
[Mawile/Herbe/Zero Moment/ミ☆ ᴍyᴜᴍᴀ/Stryke/Negrek/Hydreigon25] - Noot
[Bluwiikoon/kokorico]


----------



## Tofu

Negrek said:


> I'm not feeling super compelled by a lynch on either Zori or Mr. Ultracool at the moment, but I'm not feeling super compelled to lynch at all--with no deaths the first night, we essentially have another "free night" for inforoles with a decreased information disparity between Town and Mafia. In this scenario I think the downside of mislynching is higher than usual, since the worst case with no lynch is simply "another N0 but Town gets a second swing at all inforoles," compared to the worst case with a mislynch being "another N0 but Town gets a second swing at all inforoles, excluding the one we jettisoned." If absolutely forced to choose, I feel worse about Zori than Mr. Ultracool at the moment.
> 
> 
> 
> Tofu said:
> 
> 
> 
> Anyway, I'll claim because I don't have a problem with people knowing, and it sounds like I wouldn't be a prime target atm:
> 
> I think mine like a one-shot ability duplicator: with my photography skills, I can choose a person to copy their action. Then, the next night or day phase (it said night or day? Are there day actions?), I will use that action. It could be useful if I know for sure who I am copying, but could also just fail if people fake roleclaim, so I'm a bit hesitant about it (especially now early game). Like I said, it's only a one-shot as well.
> 
> Just for reference in case people missed my other post: when I die, I can give two badges to someone of my choosing.
> 
> 
> 
> Hmm, so if I understand this right, you'd first use your ability in the night, targeting a person, and then MF would send you a PM saying what the ability you obtained was? Or are you not informed of what ability you get and just automatically use it at the next opportunity? Do you get to pick the target for your copied ability, or is it random, or perhaps aimed at the same player as the ability was originally aimed at?
> 
> If you're told the ability you got, even before you use it, this still seems quite powerful for its ability to confirm a claim... and obviously if you copied something useful, it could be quite powerful to get a second instance of it for a night.
Click to expand...


The PM said I can target someone during the night phase, and then whatever I copied happens automatically during that same night or the next day phase depending on what action I copied. I get a PM telling me whether it worked (not telling me what the ability is, though) and then I can reply to the PM and target someone with the action. I can only copy an action if the person I initially targeted USED their action that same night; I can't just copy anyone's ability whenever I want. It also sounded like the PM implied there could be day actions that are started by a player during the previous night phase too, but I have no idea what those could be (I've been kind of keeping an eye on role claims to see if anyone has anything that sounds like that. I'm not sure which roles could be activated the previous night and THEN happen the next day phase, but looking at the phrasing, it sounds like there are some? Any ideas? I might be reading it wrong.)

My ability will fail if the person I target doesn't do an action, so I can just waste it if I pick someone who didn't do anything. It also doesn't tell me what the action is, just whether the person used an action! So honestly someone could lie about their ability and I would just double-use it, which could be bad. So at the moment I'm really hesitant about it. (kind of why I wanted people to role claim early, so I could like, shop, but I get that's more self-serving and not in the interest of The Greater Good lol)

It's only one use and doesn't cost me any badges. Neither of my abilities cost badges, and my Vivillon's "move" is to give my two bug badges after I die, so it isn't really an ability. A few people mentioned that abilities all have a badge cost, but mine doesn't. However... It seems pretty fragile and is only one-use, so I guess making it free kind of makes sense to me.


----------



## Tofu

Just to clarify again, I can pick a new target for the action I copy (if I successfully copy the action)


----------



## Zori

Does anyone have a concrete townread on blu, my read is mostly just vibes

also Tofu shouldn't target me for reasons


----------



## Zori

Zori said:


> Does anyone have a concrete townread on blu, my read is mostly just vibes


other than this and perhaps mawile, I think my and Ysabel's reads line up fairly well


----------



## Tofu

Tofu said:


> It's only one use and doesn't cost me any badges. *Neither of my abilities* cost badges, and my Vivillon's "move" is to give my two bug badges after I die, so it isn't really an ability. A few people mentioned that abilities all have a badge cost, but mine doesn't. However... It seems pretty fragile and is only one-use, so I guess making it free kind of makes sense to me.


Didn't mean to imply I had two abilities btw; I meant that my other Role Thing I Can Do is distribute badges when I die. I only have one "action" ability which is the copy thing


----------



## RedneckPhoenix

woah woah why is mimikyu the scum tier

they work hard for recognition


----------



## RedneckPhoenix

i'm also gonna call bullshit on tofu


----------



## Zori

Zori said:


> [rari_teh/bruh moment] - Wooloo
> [RedneckPhoenix/Mr. Ultracool]
> 
> [Ysabel]
> [Vipera Magnifica/JackPK/*Tofu*] - Weh
> 
> [Tofu]
> [Mawile/Herbe/Zero Moment/ミ☆ ᴍyᴜᴍᴀ/Stryke/Negrek/Hydreigon25] - Noot
> [Bluwiikoon/kokorico]


tbh


----------



## Zori

RedneckPhoenix said:


> i'm also gonna call bullshit on tofu


is this on M&F role meta, or based on how they actually claimed


----------



## RedneckPhoenix

their roleclaim is utter horseshit like von's in ooctvtmqm

everyone else needs badges but now tofu's like "i'm special, fuck you it's a one-shot"


----------



## Zori

RedneckPhoenix said:


> their roleclaim is utter horseshit like von's in ooctvtmqm
> 
> everyone else needs badges but now tofu's like "i'm special, fuck you it's a one-shot"


I don't think it makes sense for absolutely everyone to have a badge cost, especially for a copycat-like action


----------



## Zori

And, I don't see why Wolf!Tofu would claim copycat unless that was their actual action? It's not like OOCTVT Vipera who was trying to get themselves voted out


----------



## Tofu

Call the wambulance rnp; my shit don't cost badges. I'm pretty sure there's a large chance it'll fail and then I'll just be a vanilla role the rest of the time whose only other purpose is to give a small present upon my death


----------



## RedneckPhoenix

wambulance? are you fucking seven years old?


----------



## Tofu

Zori said:


> Zori said:
> 
> 
> 
> [rari_teh/bruh moment] - Wooloo
> [RedneckPhoenix/Mr. Ultracool]
> 
> [Ysabel]
> [Vipera Magnifica/JackPK/*Tofu*] - Weh
> 
> [Tofu]
> [Mawile/Herbe/Zero Moment/ミ☆ ᴍyᴜᴍᴀ/Stryke/Negrek/Hydreigon25] - Noot
> [Bluwiikoon/kokorico]
> 
> 
> 
> tbh
Click to expand...

The first three times I looked at this post, I thought you were voting for me


----------



## Hydreigon25

_Town_ shouldn't waste any actions on me for reasons i can't currently say why, due to it being early. However it will help _town_


----------



## RedneckPhoenix

tofu is almost definitely hiding either a badge cost or a different Actual Role but i'm gonna go be sick so i'll be back in like 10 minutes


----------



## Hydreigon25

i meant it could help _Town_ i prefer not to reveal it yet though


----------



## Tofu

RedneckPhoenix said:


> tofu is almost definitely hiding either a badge cost or a different Actual Role but i'm gonna go be sick so i'll be back in like 10 minutes


Not everyone has some (if you are telling the truth) insane 8-badge-cost role that targets every mafia member at once, jeez


----------



## Herbe

neutral on this drama rn but for reference i have actions that cost badges (and no actions that don't cost badges)


----------



## Vipera Magnifica

Come to think of it Tofu's role almost sounds like her coming up a role that fits her character (i.e. photographer takes snapshots of someone's role to copy it) rather than MF randing her a role and then trying to justify the flavor, but it'd be silly for me to scumread anyone whose role fits their chosen character too conveniently

If anything, the fact that none of her abilities cost any badges is more of a thing that's giving me pause, but that's based on my assumptions of how this game is set up. I have two actions, one of which is free, the other of which costs badges, and I just assumed everyone's roles were the same.


----------



## Vipera Magnifica

I don't necessarily scumread Tofu, but I'm probably going to drop her down a tier in my reads


----------



## RedneckPhoenix

i have an ability that costs nothing by virtue of it being an intrinsic and i have my badge ability


tofu also said their vivillon's move was to give 2 badges but in my role pm my badge-handy-outy effect was specifically neither a pokemon effect nor a trainer effect, just a Thing


----------



## RedneckPhoenix

i think tofu is an outgroup or possibly a tp that has a really weird role pm and she's trying to make it seem like she has a normal role pm


----------



## Vipera Magnifica

RedneckPhoenix said:


> tofu also said their vivillon's move was to give 2 badges but in my role pm my badge-handy-outy effect was specifically neither a pokemon effect nor a trainer effect, just a Thing


Mine said I get to choose how to distribute my Rain Badges
In other words, 2 can go to one player or I can split them between two players


----------



## Hydreigon25

Btw for reference i have an action that cost badges


Vipera Magnifica said:


> Come to think of it Tofu's role almost sounds like her coming up a role that fits her character (i.e. photographer takes snapshots of someone's role to copy it) rather than MF randing her a role and then trying to justify the flavor, but it'd be silly for me to scumread anyone whose role fits their chosen character too conveniently
> 
> If anything, the fact that none of her abilities cost any badges is more of a thing that's giving me pause, but that's based on my assumptions of how this game is set up. I have _two actions_, _one_ of which _is free_, _the other_ of which _costs badges_, and I just assumed everyone's roles were the same.


i thought so as well


----------



## RedneckPhoenix

my pm says the same thing but for my 3 basic badges. it's not an ability, it's something that everyone just. has


----------



## Tofu

Idk it just said "colorful scatter" was the move and I give away my badges through it. It made sense to me when I read it because it was like, I dead but my Pokemon isn't, so it helped me out? Maybe it's just to balance the power of my other role by making my Pokemon's role not really do anything, idk M&F's mind.

Like wifom but maybe I shouldn't be talking so much about it; I thought if people knew my role, they might tell me when they were going to do something useful and I could more successfully copy someone's worthwhile action, especially now knowing that some things cost multiple badges to use and I could just duplicate it onto another target.


----------



## RedneckPhoenix

mafia, if you hit tofu last night and she didn't die, try hitting her again. chances are if that happened she's an alien


----------



## Tofu

RedneckPhoenix said:


> i think tofu is an outgroup or possibly a tp that has a really weird role pm and she's trying to make it seem like she has a normal role pm


But why would I go out of my way to claim so early? I wanted to tell people so I could increase my chances of not failing at using my one-shot


----------



## Vipera Magnifica

RedneckPhoenix said:


> mafia, if you hit tofu last night and she didn't die, try hitting her again. chances are if that happened she's an alien


Alien? Why do you think that


----------



## RedneckPhoenix

Tofu said:


> Idk it just said "colorful scatter" was the move and I give away my badges through it. It made sense to me when I read it because it was like, I dead but my Pokemon isn't, so it helped me out? Maybe it's just to balance the power of my other role by making my Pokemon's role not really do anything, idk M&F's mind.


everyone speak up if your pokemon's action isn't actually the name of a move or an ability


----------



## RedneckPhoenix

Vipera Magnifica said:


> RedneckPhoenix said:
> 
> 
> 
> mafia, if you hit tofu last night and she didn't die, try hitting her again. chances are if that happened she's an alien
> 
> 
> 
> Alien? Why do you think that
Click to expand...

it's reminding me heavily of your "i wanna get lynched" play and you two are rather similar


----------



## Bluwiikoon

RedneckPhoenix said:


> Tofu said:
> 
> 
> 
> Idk it just said "colorful scatter" was the move and I give away my badges through it. It made sense to me when I read it because it was like, I dead but my Pokemon isn't, so it helped me out? Maybe it's just to balance the power of my other role by making my Pokemon's role not really do anything, idk M&F's mind.
> 
> 
> 
> everyone speak up if your pokemon's action isn't actually the name of a move or an ability
Click to expand...

I have one like that! I assume it's some kind of TCG move?


----------



## Vipera Magnifica

RedneckPhoenix said:


> Tofu said:
> 
> 
> 
> Idk it just said "colorful scatter" was the move and I give away my badges through it. It made sense to me when I read it because it was like, I dead but my Pokemon isn't, so it helped me out? Maybe it's just to balance the power of my other role by making my Pokemon's role not really do anything, idk M&F's mind.
> 
> 
> 
> everyone speak up if your pokemon's action isn't actually the name of a move or an ability
Click to expand...

my second action (the one that isn't Attract) isn't the name of a move or ability


----------



## RedneckPhoenix

twould explain both the night 0 nokill and also the poopoo claim


----------



## RedneckPhoenix

i have used the magic of google and the only results for "  "colorful scatter" "pokemon" were from pinterest pages that had rugs and pokemon plushies


----------



## Vipera Magnifica

RedneckPhoenix said:


> Vipera Magnifica said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RedneckPhoenix said:
> 
> 
> 
> mafia, if you hit tofu last night and she didn't die, try hitting her again. chances are if that happened she's an alien
> 
> 
> 
> Alien? Why do you think that
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> it's reminding me heavily of your "i wanna get lynched" play and you two are rather similar
Click to expand...

I don't think so at all because I was actually busting my ass to make myself scummy with a fake redcheck, multiple instances of faulty logic and contradictions, and feigned hostility towards several town players whereas Tofu hasn't really been actively stoking those flames


----------



## RedneckPhoenix

again, it sounds like tofu is either asking to be lynched or just really fucking up a fakeclaim


----------



## RedneckPhoenix

i mean the part of your play where you claimed to not have a one-shot multiple times and didn't back down


----------



## Tofu

Idk man this is all I got. On that note, why would I ever make up "colorful scatter" then? I only played up to Pokemon Ruby I thought it was an existing move


----------



## RedneckPhoenix

th

this is choice mafia

you chose a gen 6 gym leader


----------



## Tofu

Because she's the only bug type one! Bro don't you know my brand


----------



## Vipera Magnifica

RedneckPhoenix said:


> i mean the part of your play where you claimed to not have a one-shot multiple times and didn't back down


that was only one puzzle piece in the complex jigsaw of my deception (and an accidental one anyway, since my real one-shot was passive)


----------



## Bluwiikoon

I'm a bit confused about what we're disputing! ^^ Is it the uhhhh copy ability or the vivillon badge thing?


----------



## Vipera Magnifica

Tofu said:


> Because she's the only bug type one! Bro don't you know my brand


Bugsy would like a word with you


----------



## bruh moment

i can confirm that actions not requiring a badge are a thing. this is a very strange hill to die on.
-q


----------



## Bluwiikoon

Vipera Magnifica said:


> Tofu said:
> 
> 
> 
> Because she's the only bug type one! Bro don't you know my brand
> 
> 
> 
> Bugsy would like a word with you
Click to expand...

Who dat


----------



## bruh moment

bugsy is an enby icon.
-q


----------



## RedneckPhoenix

burgh! bugsy!


----------



## Zori

Blu, to be clear, you have a badge cost on all your actions?

My ability isn't an official move, but it's heavily flavor-relevant


----------



## RedneckPhoenix

bruh moment said:


> i can confirm that actions not requiring a badge are a thing. this is a very strange hill to die on.
> -q


tofu is claiming that neither action is badgey


----------



## bruh moment

i don’t really see an inherent issue with that?
-q


----------



## RedneckPhoenix

basically they're claiming a role pm that's way different in structure to any claimed


----------



## Tofu

Why would my other action, which is literally to die and then give two badges to someone I choose, cost badges


----------



## Bluwiikoon

Zori said:


> Blu, to be clear, you have a badge cost on all your actions?
> 
> My ability isn't an official move, but it's heavily flavor-relevant


I have an action that doesn't use badges, and one that does ^^


----------



## Vipera Magnifica

Señor Phoenix, being a bastion of levelheadedness, this behavior is most unlike you. Perhaps an elegant display of my splendid waterpower will serve to calm your spirits?


----------



## RedneckPhoenix

bruh moment said:


> i don’t really see an inherent issue with that?
> -q


mf said in the sign-up post that generally every role would have a badge power. i can only imagine that a non-badge role would be someone who's trying to get lynched or can blow up alone


----------



## RedneckPhoenix

Vipera Magnifica said:


> Señor Phoenix, being a bastion of levelheadedness, this behavior is most unlike you. Perhaps an elegant display of my splendid waterpower will serve to calm your spirits?


if you want to see me rp play dnd with me


----------



## Zori

Bluwiikoon said:


> I have an action that doesn't use badges, and one that does ^^


And... you didn't speak up during the argument about whether Tofu is lying purely because she claimed to have an action that didn't cost badges?


----------



## Bluwiikoon

Zori said:


> Bluwiikoon said:
> 
> 
> 
> I have an action that doesn't use badges, and one that does ^^
> 
> 
> 
> And... you didn't speak up during the argument about whether Tofu is lying purely because she claimed to have an action that didn't cost badges?
Click to expand...

I kinda assumed everyone has at least one free action?  Sir Ultracool and VM were able to use actions last night, after all!


----------



## Zori

MampersandF said:


> -*generally*, each role in the game will have additional abilities that they can use by expending Badges. this means that using such abilities requires them to have received Badges from another player, and frequent use will require more Badges


I don't think we can implicate Tofu purely off of this


----------



## Zori

@:Blu, fair, I don't like pushing arguments that have to do with willful ignorance or anything


----------



## Vipera Magnifica

Zori said:


> Bluwiikoon said:
> 
> 
> 
> I have an action that doesn't use badges, and one that does ^^
> 
> 
> 
> And... you didn't speak up during the argument about whether Tofu is lying purely because she claimed to have an action that didn't cost badges?
Click to expand...

What? Everyone has an action that doesn't cost badges, I'm pretty sure. It's the "not having any actions that cost badges" part of Tofu's claim that is peculiar.


----------



## Mawile

personally i think the bit that's weird is how the badge distribution has the flavor of bring given out by the pokemon


----------



## bruh moment

RedneckPhoenix said:


> bruh moment said:
> 
> 
> 
> i don’t really see an inherent issue with that?
> -q
> 
> 
> 
> mf said in the sign-up post that generally every role would have a badge power. i can only imagine that a non-badge role would be someone who's trying to get lynched or can blow up alone
Click to expand...

that’s a huge assumption and i’m not sure i see any compelling reason to believe in it. she could just as easily be telling the truth. 
-q


----------



## bruh moment

Mawile said:


> personally i think the bit that's weird is how the badge distribution has the flavor of bring given out by the pokemon


that’s news to me.
-q


----------



## Mawile

also for reference, my main action is the name of an actual move, and my badge action is named something that i initially mistook for a real move name


----------



## Bluwiikoon

It does seem strange if most people have a free action and a badge-powered action, but if Tofu's second ability is activated on death then I feel like it makes sense for that one to be a freebie too


----------



## Hydreigon25

I'd much rather prefer to *Abstain* than to _Mis-Yeet_ someone that _could be town_


----------



## Mawile

bruh moment said:


> Mawile said:
> 
> 
> 
> personally i think the bit that's weird is how the badge distribution has the flavor of bring given out by the pokemon
> 
> 
> 
> that’s news to me.
> -q
Click to expand...

mine is just written as like "you distribute ghost badges after you die. here's how you can distribute them:" and then lists the possible combinations


----------



## Vipera Magnifica

Bluwiikoon said:


> It does seem strange if most people have a free action and a badge-powered action, but if Tofu's second ability is activated on death then I feel like it makes sense for that one to be a freebie too


but badge distribution is something we all can do, and it's not even considered an action
if it were i'd have 3 actions


----------



## bruh moment

Mawile said:


> bruh moment said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mawile said:
> 
> 
> 
> personally i think the bit that's weird is how the badge distribution has the flavor of bring given out by the pokemon
> 
> 
> 
> that’s news to me.
> -q
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> mine is just written as like "you distribute ghost badges after you die. here's how you can distribute them:" and then lists the possible combinations
Click to expand...

oh, that’s what’s ours looks like too. i’m not sure i’m seeing the connection to them being given out by pokémon there...?
-q


----------



## Zori

In which case, I misunderstood the argument
I'm going to put a light FoS on herbe for their comment on the state of their badge actions and then doing nothing else in thread


----------



## Bluwiikoon

Tofu, are you sure you're not misreading your PM or something and that your power doesn't give you like, additional extra badges or something?


----------



## RedneckPhoenix

Hydreigon25 said:


> I'd much rather prefer to *Abstain* than to _Mis-Yeet_ someone that _could be town_


why are you italicizing and underlining random words


----------



## Mawile

bruh moment said:


> Mawile said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bruh moment said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mawile said:
> 
> 
> 
> personally i think the bit that's weird is how the badge distribution has the flavor of bring given out by the pokemon
> 
> 
> 
> that’s news to me.
> -q
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> mine is just written as like "you distribute ghost badges after you die. here's how you can distribute them:" and then lists the possible combinations
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> oh, that’s what’s ours looks like too. i’m not sure i’m seeing the connection to them being given out by pokémon there...?
> -q
Click to expand...

oh i was commenting on tofu's claim:



Tofu said:


> dk it just said "colorful scatter" was the move and I give away my badges through it. It made sense to me when I read it because it was like, I dead but my Pokemon isn't, so it helped me out? Maybe it's just to balance the power of my other role by making my Pokemon's role not really do anything, idk M&F's mind.


----------



## bruh moment

oh! completely missed that, thanks. hm, that is odd.
-q


----------



## RedneckPhoenix

Vipera Magnifica said:


> Bluwiikoon said:
> 
> 
> 
> It does seem strange if most people have a free action and a badge-powered action, but if Tofu's second ability is activated on death then I feel like it makes sense for that one to be a freebie too
> 
> 
> 
> but badge distribution is something we all can do, and it's not even considered an action
> if it were i'd have 3 actions
Click to expand...

that's what i'm trying to say, badge distribution isn't even an ability, it's just something that happens on death

it happens even if you don't send in a target. mine gets randomized if i don't have a target


----------



## Bluwiikoon

Oh, wait!


Tofu said:


> Idk it just said "colorful scatter" was the move and I give away my badges through it. It made sense to me when I read it because it was like, I dead but my Pokemon isn't, so it helped me out? Maybe it's just to balance the power of my other role by making my Pokemon's role not really do anything, idk M&F's mind.


Are you saying you can redistribute extra badges that you've received from other people?


----------



## Zori

Can confirm that my badge-distribution feature does not have a role name
but I wouldn't say that M&F would _not_ just do that to make sure every gym leader has a pokemon ability


----------



## RedneckPhoenix

hey don't give them a plausible claim! let them come up with it on their own


----------



## Zori

And it'd be weird as hell if M&F only gave Mafia a pokemon move in their badge distribution feature


----------



## RedneckPhoenix

look

if i know mf and i'm like 70% sure i do, consistent bastardry is what they specialize in.


----------



## Vipera Magnifica

This is a strange situation, because if the badge-distributing part of Tofu's role is different from everyone else's, why would MF decide to change it?

If she was mafia there's really no reason to lie about it, and if she's alien it's to subtle to get us to immediately start a wagon on her


----------



## Vipera Magnifica

Vipera Magnifica said:


> **too subtle* to get us to immediately start a wagon on her


----------



## RedneckPhoenix

or tofu saw your play in ooctvtmqm and immediately knew with how fast and vehemently i jumped on it that i would do so again because i like to do that


----------



## Tofu

Bluwiikoon said:


> Oh, wait!
> 
> 
> Tofu said:
> 
> 
> 
> Idk it just said "colorful scatter" was the move and I give away my badges through it. It made sense to me when I read it because it was like, I dead but my Pokemon isn't, so it helped me out? Maybe it's just to balance the power of my other role by making my Pokemon's role not really do anything, idk M&F's mind.
> 
> 
> 
> Are you saying you can redistribute extra badges that you've received from other people?
Click to expand...

Um, wow, yes, I was just trying to come up with a way to say this in a way that didn't make me sound ridiculous. I didn't look at my PM when I was typing that post and, um, I can just say woops and beg for forgiveness.

Okay, the colorful scatter thing is this: I can distribute any badges I have acquired, after I die, to any combination of people I want.

In addition, my death ones are to distribute two bug badges to anyone I choose.

But yeah, for the colorful scatter to happen, I have to be dead, and it doesn't cost anything to activate.


----------



## Zori

Conclusion: Either it's not alignment indicative from Tofu, or they're an activated alien in which case we shouldn't be voting them anyways


----------



## Hydreigon25

RedneckPhoenix said:


> Hydreigon25 said:
> 
> 
> 
> I'd much rather prefer to *Abstain* than to _Mis-Yeet_ someone that _could be town_
> 
> 
> 
> why are you italicizing and underlining random words
Click to expand...

Sorry I don't answer any questions from someone that _could be possible scum_


----------



## RedneckPhoenix

still rubs me the wrong way i say we put a watcher on tofu


----------



## Zori

Tofu's answer was imo unnecessary but it is satisfactory


----------



## RedneckPhoenix

Hydreigon25 said:


> RedneckPhoenix said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hydreigon25 said:
> 
> 
> 
> I'd much rather prefer to *Abstain* than to _Mis-Yeet_ someone that _could be town_
> 
> 
> 
> why are you italicizing and underlining random words
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Sorry I don't answer any questions from someone that _could be possible scum_
Click to expand...

hydreigon i swear to fucking god you're just trying to set me off now

fucking EVERYONE is possible scum it's DAY ONE


----------



## Bluwiikoon

RedneckPhoenix said:


> still rubs me the wrong way i say we put a watcher on tofu


@Mr. Ultracool Are you down for this? ^^


----------



## Mr. Ultracool

RedneckPhoenix said:


> Tofu said:
> 
> 
> 
> Idk it just said "colorful scatter" was the move and I give away my badges through it. It made sense to me when I read it because it was like, I dead but my Pokemon isn't, so it helped me out? Maybe it's just to balance the power of my other role by making my Pokemon's role not really do anything, idk M&F's mind.
> 
> 
> 
> everyone speak up if your pokemon's action isn't actually the name of a move or an ability
Click to expand...

Togepi has mewode a daring escape from Team Rocket - I can either wonder where it meownd up or find that it stole my remeowte...


Bluwiikoon said:


> Zori said:
> 
> 
> 
> Blu, to be clear, you have a badge cost on all your actions?
> 
> My ability isn't an official move, but it's heavily flavor-relevant
> 
> 
> 
> I have an action that doesn't use badges, and one that does ^^
Click to expand...

Sameow here!


----------



## RedneckPhoenix

hydreigon you need to get over your grudge you literally try to make me look sus in every game we both are in even when i'm basically confirmed town


----------



## RedneckPhoenix

not- i'm referring to ooctvtmqm here

breaking the rules to tell motherfuckers to check me


----------



## Vipera Magnifica

Zori said:


> Conclusion: Either it's not alignment indicative from Tofu, or they're an activated alien in which case we shouldn't be voting them anyways


I still find the possibility of alien hard to believe but agree it's not really as alignment indicative as we thought


----------



## Mr. Ultracool

Bluwiikoon said:


> RedneckPhoenix said:
> 
> 
> 
> still rubs me the wrong way i say we put a watcher on tofu
> 
> 
> 
> @Mr. Ultracool Are you down for this? ^^
Click to expand...

Meowell, either that or the Earthbadgecopplan would be fine by meow


----------



## Bluwiikoon

I think if Sir Ultracool is town watcher then it's really important we keep him alive today/tonight  That way we can definitely see if Tofu gets up to any hijinks


----------



## RedneckPhoenix

it's honestly impressive you haven't been given a warning yet


----------



## RedneckPhoenix

either tofu doesn't get to use their action for fear of being implicated or tofu uses their action and ultracool sees it

or in the absolute rare case that tofu is actually innocent, nothing


----------



## Hydreigon25

if you're _town_ however, i am providing hints _for town _


----------



## Bluwiikoon

Hydrei what hints do you have, my friend?


----------



## Mawile

Hydreigon25 said:


> if you're _town_ however, i am providing hints _for town _


are your hints anything besides "i think RNP could be mafia"


----------



## RedneckPhoenix

they underline the word town in almost every post

i think they're claiming town


----------



## RedneckPhoenix

or they investigated zori and are saying they're town


----------



## RedneckPhoenix

i don't think hydrei has the finesse for that though


----------



## Bluwiikoon

I think yeeting RNP based upon his mannerisms is a tired trope at this point tbh


----------



## Vipera Magnifica

btw @JackPK i don't know how important your role is but if you want to do your check on RNP tonight I think my role might be put to better use bodyguarding

my role is actually better than a bodyguard anyway because it draws in healing actions and killing actions alike and essentially doubles the chances of a doctor preventing the mafia kill


----------



## Bluwiikoon

It's almost like... a storm drain!


----------



## RedneckPhoenix

inforoles are told i'm mafia too.


----------



## RedneckPhoenix

i think, at least. the wording is kind of weird. let me go ask the gm to clarify


----------



## RedneckPhoenix

basically super-miller


----------



## Bluwiikoon

Stoutland scary!!!


----------



## RedneckPhoenix

ok i cleared it up with the gm

an alignment check would tell the person that i'm town and then also tell them i'm mafia


----------



## Vipera Magnifica

Bluwiikoon said:


> It's almost like... a storm drain!


if the doctor healed me and i used my action on the doctor we'd technically both be invincible
obviously the doctor shouldn't claim though


----------



## Mawile

RedneckPhoenix said:


> ok i cleared it up with the gm
> 
> an alignment check would tell the person that i'm town and then also tell them i'm mafia


"he's town but also his stoutland is super scary so he's probably mafia, so  ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ "


----------



## RedneckPhoenix

dude what happened to pagliacci jokes. i miss them


----------



## Hydreigon25

RedneckPhoenix said:


> Hydreigon25 said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Connects a lie detector to RedneckPhoenix *
> 
> question 1. do you have an ability that will hurt town more than help ?
> question 2. are you a mafia aligned or outgroup ?
> 
> 
> 
> 1. yes
> 2. both
Click to expand...

you admitted to being _Mafia/outgroup_



RedneckPhoenix said:


> hydreigon you need to get over your grudge you literally try to make me look sus in every game we both are in even when i'm basically confirmed town


so basically your actions since then haven't been town-like


----------



## Zori

*Bluwiikoon*
might switch back later
don't particularly like their more recent posting


----------



## RedneckPhoenix

Hydreigon25 said:


> RedneckPhoenix said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hydreigon25 said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Connects a lie detector to RedneckPhoenix *
> 
> question 1. do you have an ability that will hurt town more than help ?
> question 2. are you a mafia aligned or outgroup ?
> 
> 
> 
> 1. yes
> 2. both
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> you admitted to being _Mafia/outgroup_
> 
> 
> 
> RedneckPhoenix said:
> 
> 
> 
> hydreigon you need to get over your grudge you literally try to make me look sus in every game we both are in even when i'm basically confirmed town
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> so basically your actions since then haven't been town-like
Click to expand...

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH


----------



## RedneckPhoenix

i can't fucking breathe this is too fucking funny


----------



## Vipera Magnifica

RedneckPhoenix said:


> dude what happened to pagliacci jokes. i miss them


i literally made one in this thread last night


----------



## RedneckPhoenix

i know you did! which is why i brought it up


----------



## Mawile

oh yeah i should probably vote. who are the wagons


----------



## RedneckPhoenix

they're too rare these days. there should be one every thread,  just like there's a "good news guys" and a "wait this isn't scumchat"


----------



## Mr. Ultracool

Mawile said:


> bruh moment said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mawile said:
> 
> 
> 
> personally i think the bit that's weird is how the badge distribution has the flavor of bring given out by the pokemon
> 
> 
> 
> that’s news to me.
> -q
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> mine is just written as like "you distribute ghost badges after you die. here's how you can distribute them:" and then lists the possible combinations
Click to expand...

Meowine does, too; except it leaves all but one blank...


----------



## RedneckPhoenix

anyways i just

hydreigon 

hydreigon...


----------



## Vipera Magnifica

Zori said:


> *Bluwiikoon*
> might switch back later
> don't particularly like their more recent posting


why blu?


----------



## RedneckPhoenix

i'm seriously curious as to, like, how old you are

you remind me of a younger me. the one who thought negrek, who wasn't in the game, was sus


----------



## Mr. Ultracool

RedneckPhoenix said:


> they underline the word town in almost every post
> 
> i think they're claiming town


Or Meowthgroup Mafia


----------



## Mawile

it's wild to me that Hydreigon would believe RNP's lie detector answers and then proceed to abstain


----------



## JackPK

Vipera Magnifica said:


> I have two actions, one of which is free, the other of which costs badges, and I just assumed everyone's roles were the same.


same



RedneckPhoenix said:


> in my role pm my badge-handy-outy effect was specifically neither a pokemon effect nor a trainer effect, just a Thing


same



RedneckPhoenix said:


> Tofu said:
> 
> 
> 
> Idk it just said "colorful scatter" was the move and I give away my badges through it. It made sense to me when I read it because it was like, I dead but my Pokemon isn't, so it helped me out? Maybe it's just to balance the power of my other role by making my Pokemon's role not really do anything, idk M&F's mind.
> 
> 
> 
> everyone speak up if your pokemon's action isn't actually the name of a move or an ability
Click to expand...

nothing in my role PM is word-for-word exactly the name of a canon thing, but some names are riffing on Brycen-related stuff in Pokestar Studios



Mawile said:


> bruh moment said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mawile said:
> 
> 
> 
> personally i think the bit that's weird is how the badge distribution has the flavor of bring given out by the pokemon
> 
> 
> 
> that’s news to me.
> -q
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> mine is just written as like "you distribute ghost badges after you die. here's how you can distribute them:" and then lists the possible combinations
Click to expand...

same



Vipera Magnifica said:


> Bluwiikoon said:
> 
> 
> 
> It does seem strange if most people have a free action and a badge-powered action, but if Tofu's second ability is activated on death then I feel like it makes sense for that one to be a freebie too
> 
> 
> 
> but badge distribution is something we all can do, and it's not even considered an action
> if it were i'd have 3 actions
Click to expand...

same



RedneckPhoenix said:


> Vipera Magnifica said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Bluwiikoon said:
> 
> 
> 
> It does seem strange if most people have a free action and a badge-powered action, but if Tofu's second ability is activated on death then I feel like it makes sense for that one to be a freebie too
> 
> 
> 
> but badge distribution is something we all can do, and it's not even considered an action
> if it were i'd have 3 actions
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> that's what i'm trying to say, badge distribution isn't even an ability, it's just something that happens on death
> 
> it happens even if you don't send in a target. mine gets randomized if i don't have a target
Click to expand...

same



Vipera Magnifica said:


> btw @JackPK i don't know how important your role is but if you want to do your check on RNP tonight I think my role might be put to better use bodyguarding
> 
> my role is actually better than a bodyguard anyway because it draws in healing actions and killing actions alike and essentially doubles the chances of a doctor preventing the mafia kill


sounds good!


----------



## Bluwiikoon

Mawile all I can imagine is Allister scuttling around wildly whilst the super ghostbusters album (the one you shared on your profile posts!) plays

I'm dying please send help LOL


----------



## JackPK

I have D&D tonight from a couple hours before EOD to a couple hours afterward, so sadly I won't be here today for EOD, by the way

shouldn't be a problem for future Days unless the game goes long enough that another EOD falls on a Wednesday


----------



## Vipera Magnifica

oh yeah worth noting I return to work next week so my presence here will be significantly less after this week


----------



## Hydreigon25

RedneckPhoenix said:


> ok i cleared it up with the gm
> 
> an alignment check would tell the person that i'm town and then also tell them i'm mafia


I Hope RNP is _actually town_ however his actions say otherwise which is why I'm abstaining for now


----------



## RedneckPhoenix

hydreigon you can just say you don't like me


----------



## Mr. Ultracool

Oh, I almeowst forgot! Rari-teh, you argumeowntation against Zori was absolutely convincing, in meow opinion, so I'll have to vote *Zori* , as well.


----------



## Tofu

I feel baaaad voting *Zori* because they believed my role claim and stuff, but I know yesterday I was thinking they stood out to me the most, and my other opinions haven't changed much overall. I might try to check in later before EOD and see if anything else has transpired, though.


----------



## Zori

I guess, to qualify one of the things that was constantly pinging me off about Blu is his making pockety-like posts towards people on the fringes of the discussion while not really actively participating in it


----------



## Mawile

guess I'll hop on the *Zori *train for right now, since her posts give me weird vibes, but i'm still a bit concerned that anyone acting suspicious today is activated alien

also i want to know if Hydreigon's gonna be willing to talk about anyone besides RNP, since focusing solely on RNP and repeatedly waffling back and forth on whether or not he's mafia isn't very useful to town


----------



## Zori

Zori said:


> I guess, to qualify one of the things that was constantly pinging me off about Blu is his making pockety-like posts towards people on the fringes of the discussion while not really actively participating in it





Bluwiikoon said:


> RedneckPhoenix said:
> 
> 
> 
> still rubs me the wrong way i say we put a watcher on tofu
> 
> 
> 
> @Mr. Ultracool Are you down for this? ^^
Click to expand...




Bluwiikoon said:


> Hydrei what hints do you have, my friend?


----------



## haneko

o/

Hello everyone! I know I've been suspiciously lurking till now. Time to share my thoughts.

- Have to agree that Zori/Seshas's choice to reveal themselves as a vig so early is strange.
- Ultracool as a watcher (? can't quite remember) and VM as a redirector seems legit based on the way the talked about it.
- Hydreigon25 strikes me as a new player who doesn't know what they're doing, also can't tell if the grudge between him and RNP is a joke or real :P RNP's role also seems legit to me.
- I feel like the reasons to doubt Tofu's claim are a bit flimsy. None of my (Burgh)'s abilities use names of canon moves or abilities, though they're based on things to do with my character. 
- Neutral on everyone else.

I want to wait a bit longer to vote, though I'm leaning towards Zori at the moment.


----------



## Zori

[rari_teh/bruh moment] - Wooloo
[RedneckPhoenix/Mr. Ultracool]

[Ysabel]
[Vipera Magnifica/JackPK/Tofu] - Weh

[Zero Moment/ミ☆ ᴍyᴜᴍᴀ/Stryke/Negrek/Hydreigon25] - Noot
[kokorico/Herbe/Mawile]
[Bluwiikoon]


----------



## Mawile

hey Zori, do you have an action that doesn't require badges to activate or is vigging the only thing you can do


----------



## M&F

six hours to EoD!


----------



## Zori

Mawile said:


> hey Zori, do you have an action that doesn't require badges to activate or is vigging the only thing you can do


I have a passive of sorts, but nothing that I can target someone else with


----------



## Mawile

Zori said:


> Mawile said:
> 
> 
> 
> hey Zori, do you have an action that doesn't require badges to activate or is vigging the only thing you can do
> 
> 
> 
> I have a passive of sorts, but nothing that I can target someone else with
Click to expand...

would explaining the passive clear you of any suspicion or is it non-alignment indicative


----------



## bruh moment

ミ☆ ᴍyᴜᴍᴀ said:


> o/
> 
> Hello everyone! I know I've been suspiciously lurking till now. Time to share my thoughts.
> 
> - Have to agree that Zori/Seshas's choice to reveal themselves as a vig so early is strange.
> - Ultracool as a watcher (? can't quite remember) and VM as a redirector seems legit based on the way the talked about it.
> - Hydreigon25 strikes me as a new player who doesn't know what they're doing, also can't tell if the grudge between him and RNP is a joke or real :P RNP's role also seems legit to me.
> - I feel like the reasons to doubt Tofu's claim are a bit flimsy. None of my (Burgh)'s abilities use names of canon moves or abilities, though they're based on things to do with my character.
> - Neutral on everyone else.
> 
> I want to wait a bit longer to vote, though I'm leaning towards Zori at the moment.


looks pretty good. if i had to make a suggestion it would be townreading “bruh moment”. keep it up sport.
-q


----------



## Mr. Ultracool

Zori said:


> Mawile said:
> 
> 
> 
> hey Zori, do you have an action that doesn't require badges to activate or is vigging the only thing you can do
> 
> 
> 
> I have a passive of sorts, but nothing that I can target someone else with
Click to expand...

You seem to be ameowt to die, so maybe you should claim, now?


----------



## haneko

Vote *Zori*

I'll take my vote off if you tell us what your passive ability is. Why would you claim vig (which the mafia would want to target you for) but not want to tell us your non-badge ability, which is surely less powerful?

Speaking of claims, my non-badge ability lets my target write a message on the modpost if they die, so I'll be targeting Zori tonight.


----------



## JackPK

MampersandF said:


> six hours to EoD!


thank you for this! I was in the middle of assembling a vote count but that's no longer necessary haha

breaking it down by person to make it easier for me to read (and adding in myuma's vote too):

Zori (8): rari, Herbe, VM, Ysabel, Ultracool, Tofu, Mawile, myuma
VM (1): RNP
Ultracool (1): Jack
bluwii (1): Zori
abstain (1): Hydrei

vote not placed (6): bluwii, ZM, Stryke, Negrek, koko, bruh


----------



## Mr. Ultracool

ミ☆ ᴍyᴜᴍᴀ said:


> Speaking of claims, my non-badge ability lets my target write a message on the modpost if they die, so I'll be targeting Zori tonight.


Wait a moment - meowhaps you should target me if we are going with my meowtlandish plan to get me killed to find a member of the Meowfia?


----------



## JackPK

as I've said before I fundamentally do not trust it when a wagon zooms out of control with no rival wagon, so I'm inclined to read this as a situation where either zori is town or where scum!zori's teammates are bandwagoning her

I don't know who else to push on, though


----------



## JackPK

ミ☆ ᴍyᴜᴍᴀ said:


> Speaking of claims, my non-badge ability lets my target write a message on the modpost if they die, so I'll be targeting Zori tonight.


Couplea questions - is this infinite-use or one-shot (or one-successful-shot)? And can you target people who already died (i.e. if Zori gets yeeted today can you proceed to target her tonight)?


----------



## JackPK

Oh, and can the message be as long as they want or are there word/character limits?


----------



## Zori

Claiming my non-badge passive would just give mafia a way to easily cripple my vig ability, and is probably not alignment indicative


----------



## Mawile

Zori said:


> just give mafia a way to easily cripple my vig ability


you're probably gonna get yeeted today tho


----------



## Vipera Magnifica

Mr. Ultracool said:


> ミ☆ ᴍyᴜᴍᴀ said:
> 
> 
> 
> Speaking of claims, my non-badge ability lets my target write a message on the modpost if they die, so I'll be targeting Zori tonight.
> 
> 
> 
> Wait a moment - meowhaps you should target me if we are going with my meowtlandish plan to get me killed to find a member of the Meowfia?
Click to expand...

But why on earth would the mafia target you at all if they know you're just going to watch yourself? If you just keep watching yourself every night your role has been reduced to nothing


----------



## Zori

My passive is that I can only perform my action (Accidental Shock) while Amphy is _Sick_, which he is if and only if no one delivers medicine to him (visits me)

So basically, my shot has no effect if anyone visits me that night


----------



## Hydreigon25

after iso'ing RSP ( prepare for a long post of game relevant posts )



RedneckPhoenix said:


> Mr. Ultracool said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RedneckPhoenix said:
> 
> 
> 
> where the fuck is stryke
> 
> 
> 
> Meow about we lynch an inactive player for lack of a better option?
> *Stryke*
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> no. perish. only i'm allowed to start a stryke wagon. and only when he's active.
Click to expand...




RedneckPhoenix said:


> it also seems a bit early to lynch rnp
> 
> 
> *vipera magnifica*


Trying to Yeet VM



RedneckPhoenix said:


> well i should clarify. my badge power is _weird._
> first of all it takes a whopping _8 badges_, so dump them into me i guess
> 
> second of all, it's both a night *and* day ability. it takes up two phases.
> 
> during one day, i post *I'm going on a journey. Come with me. *and then the following night, any mafia who doesn't visit me has their role and alignment revealed to me. so basically the mafia has to kill me or be totally revealed


^ RNP asking for badges 



RedneckPhoenix said:


> i am never going to get 8 badges, so it's almost completely useless





RedneckPhoenix said:


> presumably because i'm going on a journey to beat 8 gyms and seeing how the other gym leaders act in day-to-day life? i dunno
> 
> on death i provide 3 badges, split however i feel like it. i told mf that unless i specifically say otherwise they all go to stryke


^ oh really, why does stryke receive all 3 ?



RedneckPhoenix said:


> this is literally the only ability i have other than Intimidate.





RedneckPhoenix said:


> Vipera Magnifica said:
> 
> 
> 
> Ahahaha, I just realized... If RNP is telling the truth about his role, and I use my Attract power on RNP, none of the mafia would be able to target RNP and he would find out who all the mafia are.
> 
> 
> 
> i've gotten used to these things working in the most frustrating possible way so mf would probably say "well, technically your ability is you targetting yourself, so now it's you letting vm use it, yadda yadda eat shit"
Click to expand...




RedneckPhoenix said:


> RedneckPhoenix said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mr. Ultracool said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Stryke said:
> 
> 
> 
> You guys will never know my powers because not even _I_ know my powers
> 
> 
> 
> They meowst be pretty powerful, then
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> pretty sure he's just saying he didn't read his role pm
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> i say this because that's a jojo reference and stryke is an asshole
Click to expand...




RedneckPhoenix said:


> not you
> 
> the other vote on you ruined my appetite for stryke blood
> 
> i have to be the first vote. it's not special otherwise





RedneckPhoenix said:


> Mawile said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RedneckPhoenix said:
> 
> 
> 
> rari you're amazing i appreciate you and you're an amazing member of this community but you damn near gave me a heart attack with the 14 notifications
> 
> 
> 
> just turn off reaction notifications tbh
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> don't you tell me what to do ghost boy
Click to expand...




RedneckPhoenix said:


> Hydreigon25 said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Connects a
> lie detector to
> RedneckPhoenix *
> 
> question 1. do you have an ability that will hurt town more than help ?
> question 2. are you a mafia aligned or outgroup ?
> 
> 
> 
> 1. yes
> 2. both
Click to expand...




RedneckPhoenix said:


> hydreigon i get you're mad at me for bringing attention to things you do wrong that people keep telling you how to do right, but i'm the vengeful one here so don't touch my racket





RedneckPhoenix said:


> Bluwiikoon said:
> 
> 
> 
> That's a bluff, right? Right??
> 
> 
> 
> it's better for my poker game if i tell you i never bluff
Click to expand...




RedneckPhoenix said:


> Negrek said:
> 
> 
> 
> I'm not feeling super compelled by a lynch on either Zori or Mr. Ultracool at the moment, but I'm not feeling super compelled to lynch at all--with no deaths the first night, we essentially have another "free night" for inforoles with a decreased information disparity between Town and Mafia. In this scenario I think the downside of mislynching is higher than usual, since the worst case with no lynch is simply "another N0 but Town gets a second swing at all inforoles," compared to the worst case with a mislynch being "another N0 but Town gets a second swing at all inforoles, excluding the one we jettisoned." If absolutely forced to choose, I feel worse about Zori than Mr. Ultracool at the moment.
> 
> 
> 
> Tofu said:
> 
> 
> 
> Anyway, I'll claim because I don't have a problem with people knowing, and it sounds like I wouldn't be a prime target atm:
> 
> I think mine like a one-shot ability duplicator: with my photography skills, I can choose a person to copy their action. Then, the next night or day phase (it said night or day? Are there day actions?), I will use that action. It could be useful if I know for sure who I am copying, but could also just fail if people fake roleclaim, so I'm a bit hesitant about it (especially now early game). Like I said, it's only a one-shot as well.
> 
> Just for reference in case people missed my other post: when I die, I can give two badges to someone of my choosing.
> 
> 
> 
> Hmm, so if I understand this right, you'd first use your ability in the night, targeting a person, and then MF would send you a PM saying what the ability you obtained was? Or are you not informed of what ability you get and just automatically use it at the next opportunity? Do you get to pick the target for your copied ability, or is it random, or perhaps aimed at the same player as the ability was originally aimed at?
> 
> If you're told the ability you got, even before you use it, this still seems quite powerful for its ability to confirm a claim... and obviously if you copied something useful, it could be quite powerful to get a second instance of it for a night.
> 
> 
> 
> RedneckPhoenix said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bruh moment said:
> 
> 
> 
> rnp if you're telling the truth it was massively unwise to reveal your role like that tbh
> -q
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> yeah let me just grab 8 badges out of my fuckin cookie jar and pull out this power that notifies the mafia of when i'm using it
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I'm confused, do you mean the mafia would literally receive a system message telling them that they would all need to target you or have their alignments revealed to you, or just that they would know you'd used it because they would see the trigger phrase?
> 
> Also, what's the flavor for your abilities?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> intimidate, cuzza my Stoutland, and Journey, cuz i actually, yknow, rivalled the main character of bw1 and went on a journey before i became a leader in bw2
Click to expand...




RedneckPhoenix said:


> i would have personally gone for, like, Odor Sleuth or Take Down or, fuckin, i dunno, Retaliate, but far be it from me to criticize the illustrious gm





RedneckPhoenix said:


> they get told "you should visit redneckphoenix tonight".





RedneckPhoenix said:


> or some flavor-y message





RedneckPhoenix said:


> but, uh, let's, let's see how it transpires.





RedneckPhoenix said:


> not for any particular reason i just don't like people telling me what to do





RedneckPhoenix said:


> i'm also gonna call bullshit on tofu





RedneckPhoenix said:


> their roleclaim is utter horseshit like von's in ooctvtmqm
> 
> everyone else needs badges but now tofu's like "i'm special, fuck you it's a one-shot"





RedneckPhoenix said:


> tofu is almost definitely hiding either a badge cost or a different Actual Role but i'm gonna go be sick so i'll be back in like 10 minutes





RedneckPhoenix said:


> i have an ability that costs nothing by virtue of it being an intrinsic and i have my badge ability
> 
> 
> tofu also said their vivillon's move was to give 2 badges but in my role pm my badge-handy-outy effect was specifically neither a pokemon effect nor a trainer effect, just a Thing


OMG!!! ^ ( if that is what i think it is then more likely to be Anti-Town )



RedneckPhoenix said:


> i think tofu is an outgroup or possibly a tp that has a really weird role pm and she's trying to make it seem like she has a normal role pm





RedneckPhoenix said:


> my pm says the same thing but for my 3 basic badges. it's not an ability, it's something that everyone just. has





RedneckPhoenix said:


> mafia, if you hit tofu last night and she didn't die, try hitting her again. chances are if that happened she's an alien


^ open-wolf reveal ?



RedneckPhoenix said:


> Tofu said:
> 
> 
> 
> Idk it just said "colorful scatter" was the move and I give away my badges through it. It made sense to me when I read it because it was like, I dead but my Pokemon isn't, so it helped me out? Maybe it's just to balance the power of my other role by making my Pokemon's role not really do anything, idk M&F's mind.
> 
> 
> 
> everyone speak up if your pokemon's action isn't actually the name of a move or an ability
Click to expand...




RedneckPhoenix said:


> Vipera Magnifica said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RedneckPhoenix said:
> 
> 
> 
> mafia, if you hit tofu last night and she didn't die, try hitting her again. chances are if that happened she's an alien
> 
> 
> 
> Alien? Why do you think that
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> it's reminding me heavily of your "i wanna get lynched" play and you two are rather similar
Click to expand...




RedneckPhoenix said:


> twould explain both the night 0 nokill and also the poopoo claim





RedneckPhoenix said:


> again, it sounds like tofu is either asking to be lynched or just really fucking up a fakeclaim





RedneckPhoenix said:


> i mean the part of your play where you claimed to not have a one-shot multiple times and didn't back down





RedneckPhoenix said:


> th
> 
> this is choice mafia
> 
> you chose a gen 6 gym leader





RedneckPhoenix said:


> burgh! bugsy!





RedneckPhoenix said:


> basically they're claiming a role pm that's way different in structure to any claimed





RedneckPhoenix said:


> bruh moment said:
> 
> 
> 
> i don’t really see an inherent issue with that?
> -q
> 
> 
> 
> mf said in the sign-up post that generally every role would have a badge power. i can only imagine that a non-badge role would be someone who's trying to get lynched or can blow up alone
Click to expand...




RedneckPhoenix said:


> Hydreigon25 said:
> 
> 
> 
> I'd much rather prefer to *Abstain* than to _Mis-Yeet_ someone that _could be town_
> 
> 
> 
> why are you italicizing and underlining random words
Click to expand...

^ This is RNP not knowing what hints/bread crumbs are ​


RedneckPhoenix said:


> hey don't give them a plausible claim! let them come up with it on their own





RedneckPhoenix said:


> look
> 
> if i know mf and i'm like 70% sure i do, consistent bastardry is what they specialize in.





RedneckPhoenix said:


> or tofu saw your play in ooctvtmqm and immediately knew with how fast and vehemently i jumped on it that i would do so again because i like to do that





RedneckPhoenix said:


> still rubs me the wrong way i say we put a watcher on tofu


why would town/RSP suggest that ^



RedneckPhoenix said:


> Hydreigon25 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RedneckPhoenix said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hydreigon25 said:
> 
> 
> 
> I'd much rather prefer to *Abstain* than to _Mis-Yeet_ someone that _could be town_
> 
> 
> 
> why are you italicizing and underlining random words
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Sorry I don't answer any questions from someone that _could be possible scum_
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> hydreigon i swear to fucking god you're just trying to set me off now
> 
> fucking EVERYONE is possible scum it's DAY ONE
Click to expand...




RedneckPhoenix said:


> hydreigon you need to get over your grudge you literally try to make me look sus in every game we both are in even when i'm basically confirmed town





RedneckPhoenix said:


> either tofu doesn't get to use their action for fear of being implicated or tofu uses their action and ultracool sees it
> 
> or in the absolute rare case that tofu is actually innocent, nothing





RedneckPhoenix said:


> or they investigated zori and are saying they're town





RedneckPhoenix said:


> i don't think hydrei has the finesse for that though





RedneckPhoenix said:


> inforoles are told i'm mafia too.





RedneckPhoenix said:


> i think, at least. the wording is kind of weird. let me go ask the gm to clarify





RedneckPhoenix said:


> basically super-miller





RedneckPhoenix said:


> ok i cleared it up with the gm
> 
> an alignment check would tell the person that i'm town and then also tell them i'm mafia


^ WTF  ?



RedneckPhoenix said:


> Hydreigon25 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RedneckPhoenix said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hydreigon25 said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Connects a lie detector to RedneckPhoenix *
> 
> question 1. do you have an ability that will hurt town more than help ?
> question 2. are you a mafia aligned or outgroup ?
> 
> 
> 
> 1. yes
> 2. both
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> you admitted to being _Mafia/outgroup_
> 
> 
> 
> RedneckPhoenix said:
> 
> 
> 
> hydreigon you need to get over your grudge you literally try to make me look sus in every game we both are in even when i'm basically confirmed town
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> so basically RNP your actions since then haven't been _town-like_
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH
Click to expand...


----------



## Bluwiikoon

Pretty sure I'm gonna be Zzzing past eod time unfortunately, so *Zori *for lack of any better ideas :( Amphy nooooo!!


----------



## Mawile

ok you know what*, Hydreigon25*

give me any comments on what you think about anybody else and i'll take this vote off of you, you're not helping town at all by focusing on RNP due to your grudge from ooctvt


----------



## Mawile

also at least put all those quotes in a spoiler


----------



## Bluwiikoon

Mawile said:


> give me any comments on what you think about anybody else and i'll take this vote off of you, you're not helping town at all by focusing on RNP due to your grudge from ooctvt


Hard agree tbh :(


----------



## Vipera Magnifica

Needing badges + not being targeted that night is a pretty tight set of restrictions

It could make sense as an extra KP for the mafia but if it's town then MF just really hates you, Seshas


----------



## Vipera Magnifica

Hydreigon has a _vendetta_


----------



## RedneckPhoenix

did

did you post every message from my iso


----------



## RedneckPhoenix

did you hit the quote button on every single post i made

that's dedication

*hydreigon25*


----------



## Mawile

Vipera Magnifica said:


> It could make sense as an extra KP for the mafia but if it's town then MF just really hates you, Seshas


i could see it working as mafia KP specifically designed for if a mafia member dies, where they give a badge or two to Seshas and she goes and does an extra kill

sounds rough for a townie tho


----------



## RedneckPhoenix

and you still have just random black text in your goddamn post!


----------



## RedneckPhoenix

this is not real. i refuse to believe a human being can act like this


----------



## JackPK

RedneckPhoenix said:


> this is not real. i refuse to believe a human being can act like this


this is exactly how hydreigon has acted in every game they've participated in so far


----------



## RedneckPhoenix

hydreigon has got to be the most advanced bot i've ever seen


----------



## Mr. Ultracool

[QUOTE="RedneckPhoenix, post: 694690, member: 4138"]
this is not real. i refuse to believe a human being can act like this
[/QUOTE]
What are you talking ameowt? That text looks completely normeowl to me...


----------



## RedneckPhoenix

post: 694690

heh.


----------



## Mr. Ultracool

RedneckPhoenix said:


> and you still have just random black text in your goddamn post!


Meow in the world can you tell? It looks comeowpletely ordinary even in Roar of Timeow...


----------



## RedneckPhoenix

let's... let's try to unpack this


----------



## Negrek

Ysabel said:


> Time for Reads:
> 
> 
> Spoiler
> 
> 
> 
> *Nanu *(me)
> Me
> 
> *Alolan Persian *(asset to town)
> rari
> bm
> 
> *Alolan Meowth *(helpful/believable claim)
> RNP
> Mr UM
> Blu
> Mawile
> Tofu
> Jack
> 
> *Pikachu *(neutral/pls post more)
> Herbe
> Kokoriko
> VM
> Stryke
> Negrek
> Hydreigon
> ZM
> Myuma
> 
> *Mimikyu *(scummy/antitown)
> Zori
> 
> 
> 
> Negrek do you think if we abstain we could get better results tomorrow since people have claimed/town's actions wouldn't be as random? Do you think the benefits of that outweigh the possibility of giving mafia a (more informed) chance of killing?
> 
> RNP you said some people were playing similarly to when you were yeeted over a red check. Did you mean someone in particular or in general?


In a role madness game Town generally has an action advantage and gains more information in a given night than the mafia, both directly through inforoles and indirectly through power interactions that can be used to prove or disprove day-claims. Yes, I think we would be in a better position to lynch correctly tomorrow, and the mafia actually get less info on a potential lynch target on an abstain than a mislynch. Unless I'm feeling quite confident about a lynch candidate, I wouldn't want to lynch here, and I don't. It is assumed that we would lynch someone Tomorrow and each Day thereafter.

While I find some things about Zori's play odd, I don't feel strongly enough about them (or the evidence against anyone else) to want to lynch at this time. So, *abstain*.


----------



## Herbe

*hydreigon*

your vendetta against rnp is annoying and distracting. also i don't trust zori per se but their passive makes their stuff more believable now.


----------



## Hydreigon25

Mawile said:


> ok you know what, Hydreigon25
> 
> give me any comments on what you think about anybody else and i'll take this vote off of you, you're not helping town at all by focusing on RNP due to your grudge from ooctvt


why do you think Zori seems a good yeet day 1 ?


----------



## Mawile

Hydreigon25 said:


> why do you think Zori seems a good yeet day 1 ?


my question was about your thoughts, not mine


----------



## Mawile

Mawile said:


> Hydreigon25 said:
> 
> 
> 
> why do you think Zori seems a good yeet day 1 ?
> 
> 
> 
> my question was about your thoughts, not mine
Click to expand...

not like. question, i meant that my request was for your thoughts
asking me why i voted someone else first isn't a reflection of your thoughts


----------



## bruh moment

this is dumb
-q


----------



## bruh moment

“stop acting out due to the events of last game and solve for this one” is a valid sentiment, but voting hydreigon for this is also just reacting to the dumb grudge rather than solving for this game. punishing annoying behavior with a vote ain’t it and it’s a stretch to actually describe this as wolfy imo. would recommend voting elsewhere, hydrei is not a good yeet 
-q


----------



## Vipera Magnifica

Herbe said:


> also i don't trust zori per se but their passive makes their stuff more believable now.


on the contrary, I think that such a passive makes sense as a restriction for an extra mafia KP


----------



## Mawile

bruh moment said:


> “stop acting out due to the events of last game and solve for this one” is a valid sentiment, but voting hydreigon for this is also just reacting to the dumb grudge rather than solving for this game. punishing annoying behavior with a vote ain’t it and it’s a stretch to actually describe this as wolfy imo. would recommend voting elsewhere, hydrei is not a good yeet
> -q


my incentive for voting is to hear literally any other thoughts from them, i fully plan on removing the vote if they can provide any other input on the game

usually i don't like to pressure vote but i greatly dislike the lack of any other input from them. also to clarify, i still think Zori is more likely mafia than not, especially with the more mafia-leaning restrictive passive. it would be easier for mafia to coordinate not targeting Zori and allowing her to use her action than it would be for her to go "ok don't target me anybody" in thread and hope that mafia doesn't sabotage her


----------



## haneko

*unvote Zori*



JackPK said:


> Couplea questions - is this infinite-use or one-shot (or one-successful-shot)? And can you target people who already died (i.e. if Zori gets yeeted today can you proceed to target her tonight)?


Infinite use, and yeah, I think my role PM I can target members who were yeeted the previous day, otherwise I'm not sure how my ability would work. I also believe there isn't a character limit, but that is something I'm less sure of, so I'll have to check. I'll get back to you on this.


----------



## Negrek

Zori's description of their power strikes me as very similar to RNP's description of their power, so I'm a little confused by the fact that people appear to be scumreading Zori so much harder for it. What's up with that? In either case you have a detrimental passive and then a badge-only active, beneficial effect. It's not impossible that they're different alignments and designed to mirror each other, and obviously if RNP is telling the truth his ability would be useless for mafia whereas Zori's would be good for either faction, but I'm a little lost on why Zori's is apparently so much more inherently suspicious.


----------



## Vipera Magnifica

I don't think yeeting hydreigon is necessarily a good idea, regardless of how they flip we aren't going to get as much information as we would out of a zori flip

particularly, if zori is maf, rari would be pretty much confirmed town and some people (i.e. negrek) would not look quite as good

if zori/ultracool are w/w we've been waiting for a third wagon to arise and i think this is it


----------



## Herbe

eh, fine. *unvote*


----------



## Mawile

fine i'll flip back to *Zori* but I still want thoughts from Hydrei
it also doesn't make sense for Zori to claim badge vigilante very quickly if she doesn't want anyone to target her, surely a town doctor or other kind of protector would want to help her out and prevent her from dying


----------



## Mawile

Mawile said:


> it also doesn't make sense for Zori to claim badge vigilante very quickly if she doesn't want anyone to target her, surely a town doctor or other kind of protector would want to help her out and prevent her from dying


also the thing with RNP's passive is that it doesn't require any kind of coordination to be effective and its only purpose is to be confusing for everyone who targets him. basically a miller but powered up, and would be frustrating to the mafia to have one of their own constantly passively blabbering to everyone that he's mafia
Zori's, on the other hand, is better used in the hands of the mafia. since she can't badge vig if anyone targets her, she can be actively sabotaged by the mafia and unintentionally sabotaged by the town members trying to help her. if she were mafia with this restriction, then she could guarantee that the mafia won't use any abilities on her, which gives her a higher chance of having her kill go through


----------



## Zori

fwiw I didn't care about getting visited tonight, because I wouldn't have any badges
I was planning on claiming on D2 that my drawback was that I couldn't be visited by anyone other than attackers to get all the town roles off of me


----------



## Vipera Magnifica

let me put it another way

zori seems more likely than not to be mafia (see rari's post #317 for a list of reasons). several people have voiced their opinions on zori, and this information will become useful once we know zori's alignment. if we double down on zori now we can actually get some useful info for town and more likely than not reduce the mafia's numbers

if we just yeet hydreigon for the way they are acting (which is pretty much in line with how they've always been acting), we get little useful information out of it. they are a better target for inspection than zori, because if zori were town the mere act of visiting them interferes with their action (which i still believe makes more sense as a mafia-aligned kill power). if there is a cop role, which surely there still is at this point, they should inspect hydreigon tonight and claim tomorrow only in the case of a redcheck


----------



## Mawile

fwiw i was always planning on switching back to one of Zori/UC and didn't mention it because i wanted some thoughts out of hydrei


----------



## Mawile

Mawile said:


> fwiw i was always planning on switching back to one of Zori/UC and didn't mention it because i wanted some thoughts out of hydrei


was more of a threatening tactic than a legit vote, i wasn't really expecting other people to vote with me


----------



## Stryke

currently backreading, I'll catch up in a bit



Hydreigon25 said:


> RedneckPhoenix said:
> 
> 
> 
> presumably because i'm going on a journey to beat 8 gyms and seeing how the other gym leaders act in day-to-day life? i dunno
> 
> on death i provide 3 badges, split however i feel like it. i told mf that unless i specifically say otherwise they all go to stryke
> 
> 
> 
> ^ oh really, why does stryke receive all 3 ?
Click to expand...

Because we're besties next question


----------



## qenya

Hi I'm back again! not much relief from the stifling I'm afraid, but we're getting thunderstorms tonight so hopefully there will be cooler air tomorrow-!

As promised, I've reread Zori and VM since yesterday.

With fresh eyes, I think Zori's behaviour yesterday was less blatant than it seemed at the time. I think possibly I was misled by the fact that everyone started talking about it immediately, but in context it wasn't really as much of an obvious I Am Scum as i was thinking. so I reckon I'm comfortable voting *Zori*, especially since there don't seem to be any viable counterwagons forming to Mr Ultracool, who I still think is pinging more town than scum.

VM, I'm honestly pretty impressed by. regarding his role, the mechanics seem to work out in his favour - if it's untrue then ultracool must be lying, which as I've said I think is unlikely. while that's NAI in itself, the fact that he was willing to explain what happened instead of leaving us to flounder counts in his favour (unless w/w with Blu?). also, I'm a fan of the way he's been keeping the discussion on topic instead of straying off onto dead ends like hydreigon (on whom more below), and presenting takes that don't really jive with other people's (e.g. poking holes in Mr UC's plan).

Regarding the business with Tofu's role PM... it seems a bit  that she only clarified the suspicious parts of her claim when Blu suggested what she might have meant by them, and then used the exact suggestion that he made. that _could_ be just her having difficulty articulating it and him managing to figure it out... but it could also _not_. so, something to keep an eye on.

For what it's worth, my role PM has the same format as pretty much everyone else has been saying. My actions are named after real Pokémon moves/abilities (though it sounds like some's aren't?), and I give out a number of Zephyr Badges when I die, which is separate from those actions. (Should we be claiming our number of distributed badges, by the way? There was some talk about it earlier, but I don't remember there being a conclusion?)

Finally, I don't think yeeting Hydreigon is the way to go either. _Being irritating_ is not a scumtell, and VM's quite correct that their flip provides us with virtually no information. This is exactly the mindset that led y'all to yeet RNP instead of a redchecked Mampers in TVT. don't give into the dark side, people! (I also don't think that trying to pressure them for info by voting for them is likely be fruitful, but no harm in trying I guess.)

Here's my _very preliminary, only loosely ordered_ tierlist. I haven't talked about everyone yet and I don't think there's time to, but lmk if you have specific questions. Due note that I won't be around for EoD, and also that I may suddenly vanish at any moment due to thunderstorm-induced powercut.


Spoiler: Tierlist



*bird jesus*
kokorico

*flying high*
RNP
rari
Jack
Herbe

*feathered friends*
Ultracool
skytini
VM

*altitude undecided*
Mawile
Ysabel

*roosting for now*
Bluwiikoon
Tofu

*grounded*
zori

**confused chicken noises**
Hydreigon

*poast moar*
Negrek
Stryke
Zero Moment
myuma


----------



## qenya

uh, that ended up more of a wall of text than i appreciated. apologies. y'all just _kept posting_ while i was writing-


----------



## M&F

three hours to EoD!

running votes:
-Zori (8): rari_teh (#96), Vipera Magnifica (#352), Ysabel (#444), Mr. Ultracool (#613), Tofu (#614), Bluwiikoon (#637), Mawile (#667), kokorico (#674)
-Abstain (2): Hydreigon25 (#543), Negrek (#654)
-Mr. Ultracool (1): JackPK (#348)
-Bluwiikoon (1): Zori (#637)
-Hydreigon25 (1): RedneckPhoenix (#644)



Spoiler: lengthetning vote history


----------



## Herbe

is there even a point in me voting anything right now. it's not like zori's not gonna get yeeted.


----------



## Stryke

Ok ok here I am

Uhhh quick thoughts because I'm at work: personally I haven't found anything particularly suspicious about Ultracool, he seems pretty happy and jovial and I'm just kinda pocketed by his attitude. I'm still sad that he wanted to immediately off me but eh, maybe he just wanted to be helpful. As for hydre, I agree he's being pretty difficult right now, but I feel like it'd be better to off someone because of actual evidence (like raris longpost against zori) rather than because someone is being ornery. But that still doesn't mean that that kinda stuff should continue; hydre, if you keep trying to push rnp as scum because of your vendetta, eventually we're probably gonna get sick of it and it'll be curtains for you. But anyways, yeah, *zori*

Anyway, for my role... Well, I have no fucking clue. Both my badge powers are locked and I won't know anything about them till I'm killed. Mystery! Intrigue! Interestingly though, my power names aren't from moves... They're from quotes that I believe Marlon has said before. Not sure how significant that is though.


----------



## RedneckPhoenix

fun fact!

i talked to butterfree about hydrei and she said to vote them or ignore them


----------



## Vipera Magnifica

RedneckPhoenix said:


> fun fact!
> 
> i talked to butterfree about hydrei and she said to vote them or ignore them


???


----------



## RedneckPhoenix

really hard to ignore someone when they copy/paste an entire iso into a message, so that would be my reason for voting


----------



## M&F

RedneckPhoenix said:


> fun fact!
> 
> i talked to butterfree about hydrei and she said to vote them or ignore them


so, like, this is presumably what she's advising you to do wrt the external-context bad blood, not what she's advising you to do in a game capacity

that matters for me to clarify since, well, one's not supposed to consult with spectators wrt actual gameplay


----------



## Mawile

MampersandF said:


> RedneckPhoenix said:
> 
> 
> 
> fun fact!
> 
> i talked to butterfree about hydrei and she said to vote them or ignore them
> 
> 
> 
> so, like, this is presumably what she's advising you to do wrt the external-context bad blood, not what she's advising you to do in a game capacity
> 
> that matters for me to clarify since, well, one's not supposed to consult with spectators wrt actual gameplay
Click to expand...

butterfree's already been involved in this situation for some time tbf


----------



## RedneckPhoenix

i'm not in the practice of copy/pasting private messages from staff since they're. private. you can talk to her

i was basically asking her to, like, talk to hydrei abt the grudge


----------



## RedneckPhoenix

i don't care about it really i think it's really fucking funny but i know other people have expressed annoyance with the grudge at this point


----------



## bruh moment

mewt here and i'm catching up from post, like, 450,

please hold


----------



## M&F

it's not that big of a deal anyway but like, let's just not potentially imply that there's illegal comms going on here


----------



## RedneckPhoenix

...?


----------



## RedneckPhoenix

i'm- i talked to butterfree about... what? 

i didn't ask butterfree for game thoughts! i didn't even know she cared about this game!

i literally just brought up "yo could you talk to hydrei about not interrupting the game by hating me"


----------



## JackPK

no need to get defensive RNP, I don't think anyone's scolding you

they're just clarifying so other players who don't know the situation as well don't jump to conclusions and assume cheating took place


----------



## M&F

JackPK said:


> no need to get defensive RNP, I don't think anyone's scolding you
> 
> they're just clarifying so other players who don't know the situation as well don't jump to conclusions and assume cheating took place


yeah, that's that on that

but anyways, that should be all from me for now; carry on


----------



## rari_teh

just caught up from this morning. a few things i feel like addressing:

tofu’s claim was really suspicious in the beginning considering how different it was from everyone else, but her later explanation is believeable enough for me to give her the benefit of doubt even though blu had all but laid it out before her, especially considering that i like her posts overall
my role has two abilities, one free-to-use, named after a non-existent pokémon move, and one costing badges, named after a real move. upon my death i give [number] badge to people of my choice. if i don’t give my choice by the end of the night, it rands.
[*]i fully agree with bruh about the hydreiwagon. we’ve been on enough games with them to know that their behaviour isn’t alignment indicative.


----------



## rari_teh

w…why did that come out with a strikethrough


----------



## Zori

laugh in b*code falre

. .*


----------



## bruh moment

classic longquote reply. this was an overwhelming endeavor


Spoiler






Herbe said:


> i don't particularly trust vm at the moment





Herbe said:


> vm has successfully regained my trust
> i could see a zori/mr. Cool w/w


@Herbe what was the turnaround here? i'm assuming it was just that post that vm made casing ultracool? (in which case, what did you like about it?)


JackPK said:


> I think I like Ultracool/Zori wagons for toDay? at least for now, until/unless discussion arises to change my mind (it is still early in the phase). iirc they're at like 2/2? so I will keep my vote unplaced for the moment and I will place it to rebalance the wagons when they become unbalanced


strikes me as mildly weird talk about (p small) wagons; why were you this worried about keeping them balanced with over half of the day phase left ... ?


Vipera Magnifica said:


> *Come to think of it Tofu's role almost sounds like her coming up a role that fits her character (i.e. photographer takes snapshots of someone's role to copy it) rather than MF randing her a role and then trying to justify the flavor*, but it'd be silly for me to scumread anyone whose role fits their chosen character too conveniently


agree. what other read do you have on tofu? (in particular, the way she claimed initially?)


Zori said:


> Conclusion: Either it's not alignment indicative from Tofu, or they're an activated alien in which case we shouldn't be voting them anyways


don't think alien tbh, but i agree that it's not something i want to chase toDay


Zori said:


> *Bluwiikoon*
> might switch back later
> don't particularly like their more recent posting


@Zori can you elaborate on this? i honestly think he's sounded more or less the same as every other game, haha. also -


Zori said:


> Zori said:
> 
> 
> 
> I guess, to qualify one of the things that was constantly pinging me off about Blu is his making pockety-like posts towards people on the fringes of the discussion while not really actively participating in it
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Bluwiikoon said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RedneckPhoenix said:
> 
> 
> 
> still rubs me the wrong way i say we put a watcher on tofu
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> @Mr. Ultracool Are you down for this? ^^
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Bluwiikoon said:
> 
> 
> 
> Hydrei what hints do you have, my friend?
> 
> Click to expand...
Click to expand...

if these are prime examples of blu being shifty i don't really see it, that first post is like ... game-relevant, and the second is i guess pockety but also incredibly classic for him


Tofu said:


> I feel baaaad voting *Zori* because they believed my role claim and stuff, but I know yesterday I was thinking they stood out to me the most, and my other opinions haven't changed much overall. I might try to check in later before EOD and see if anything else has transpired, though.


@Tofu can you talk more about your reads on seshas and ultracool, i tried to read back but didn't really find anything you'd said in detail about seshas other than this from post 351


> (also I kind of like that on the off chance Zori does drop 8 badges when killed, AND rnp isn't just trolling us, we could... activate his ability with the badges Zori drops, right (assuming they are sent to rnp)? Honestly this isn't a situation that even seems like it could realistically happen, but just sharing my train of thought)





Mawile said:


> ok you know what*, Hydreigon25*
> 
> give me any comments on what you think about anybody else and i'll take this vote off of you, you're not helping town at all by focusing on RNP due to your grudge from ooctvt





Vipera Magnifica said:


> if zori/ultracool are w/w we've been waiting for a third wagon to arise and i think this is it


ftr i think this could be true even if they aren't both wolves


Herbe said:


> eh, fine. *unvote*


feels like he got pressured into moving away?


kokorico said:


> Regarding the business with Tofu's role PM... it seems a bit  that she only clarified the suspicious parts of her claim when Blu suggested what she might have meant by them, and then used the exact suggestion that he made. that _could_ be just her having difficulty articulating it and him managing to figure it out... but it could also _not_. so, something to keep an eye on.


this is exactly where i'm at on the tofu thing, i think. it isn't damning but i also think it's distinctly possible she got caught in a stumble lol


rari_teh said:


> her later explanation is believeable enough for me to give her the benefit of doubt even though blu had all but laid it out before her, especially considering that i like her posts overall


what do you like about her posting?


----------



## bruh moment

oh yeah this is mewtini. continuing posts incoming


----------



## Ys_

Ok, well. Thoughts then. I too have a badge cost action and a free action. My badge action is interesting if used right, I'll say that. I'd say it's medium priority but if we trust RNP then giving him our badges works too, as long as he's not killed. Tofu, I wouldn't advise using your ability/action on me, at least not toNight. As for the Hydreigon thing, I agree with BM. It's not worth it to vote them only for the grudge thing. I was thinking that they could have visited RNP and got that notif where RNP is mafia but it could just be due to reasons already mentioned which in that case I'd rather ignore.

In reply to zori I don't see anything inherently scummy with Blu, except his usual perkiness? But he hasn't been as much of a presence as rari and BM which we both agree on as towny, and Koko has been kind of inactive but that may or may not be alignment indicative. As for Mawile, maybe I would drop him down a little on my list. My positive view of him was partly due to having been in ooctvtq and reading his thoughts and ideas about the game which he shared here. Like, as I saw it, he was being pretty transparent

Also agree that Herbe has been acting a little secretive but it's still only day one, so I'll give him the benefit of the doubt...


----------



## bruh moment

Spoiler: vote history



*rari / zori 96*
ultracool / stryke 182
rnp / vm 190
ultracool / unvote 191
vm / ultracool 206
herbe / ultracool 228
herbe / zori 329
*jack / ultracool 348
vm / zori 352
ysabel / zori 444*
zori / kokorico 472
*hydreigon / abstain 543
zori / blu 594
ultracool / zori 613
tofu / zori 614*
mawile / zori 616
myuma / zori 626
*blu / zori 637*
mawile / hydreigon 638
*rnp / hydreigon 644
negrek / abstain 654*
herbe / hydreigon 655
myuma / unvote 663
herbe / unvote 666
*mawile / zori
kokorico / zori 674
stryke / zori 678*


zori (8): rari, vm, ysabel, ultracool, tofu, blu, mawile, koko, stryke
abstain (2): hydreigon, negrek
blu (1): zori
ultracool (1): jack
hydreigon (1): rnp

[sorry if there's already a vc somewhere/if this is wrong, i am not all here,]


bruh moment said:


> kokorico said:
> 
> 
> 
> i think it's a bit odd that nobody has presented any other possible candidates
> 
> 
> 
> is it? we're not that deep into the day
> i kinda wanted to ask if anyone wanted to talk about anyone else but didn't want to derail lol
> -m
Click to expand...

now we really are that deep into the day and i hate to say it but i'm a little antsy about the landslide vote/i kinda don't know if i believe seshas is the move. i think i'm going to go on *herbe, *i'll move it onto something more impactful if it looks like this vote will be useless considering it's like 1.5hr to EoD lol (+ will be elaborating in a second)


----------



## bruh moment

Ysabel said:


> Tofu, I wouldn't advise using your ability/action on me, at least not toNight.


same for us, by the way


Ysabel said:


> Also agree that Herbe has been acting a little secretive but it's still only day one, so I'll give him the benefit of the doubt...


secretive how?


----------



## rari_teh

@.bruh: i’m currently on mobile so i can’t give a real/detailed answer atm. as soon as i get back on desktop i promise i’ll elaborate on my tofuthoughts

i want to mention beforehand that i also find the fittingness of her role a bit , but i'm willing to allow myself to believe that mf happened to rand her a role she could delightfully fit into the trainer’s persona


----------



## Hydreigon25

I think a _town Role blocker_ would be useful to stay hidden, if there is one


----------



## Zori

*herbe*
I have vague suspicions about them as well

also I think it's safe to assume that M&F at least made some tweaks to roles to make them fit the flavor, if not creating some roles from scratch just to fill flavor niches


----------



## RedneckPhoenix

so are you claiming town roleblocker


----------



## bruh moment

rari_teh said:


> @.bruh: i’m currently on mobile so i can’t give a real/detailed answer atm. as soon as i get back on desktop i promise i’ll elaborate on my tofuthoughts
> 
> i want to mention beforehand that i also find the fittingness of her role a bit , but i'm willing to allow myself to believe that mf happened to rand her a role she could delightfully fit into the trainer’s persona


dw queen
i don't think the tofu thoughts are that urgent tbh, i really want to talk to you more about seshas and herbe though whenever you're around
-m


----------



## rari_teh

i have some herbethoughts alright and will gladly elaborate on them as soon as i get back on desktop, but i’ll be damned if zori isn’t being bussed here


----------



## RedneckPhoenix

i'm... hydreigon your "breadcrumbs"... half of them just say Town. capital letters don't spell anything nor do the words fit together


----------



## rari_teh

maybe they were brushing breadcrumbs off their touchpad and accidentally formatted random words


----------



## RedneckPhoenix

if you want to claim town... just do it


----------



## RedneckPhoenix

you also... usually call attention to your breadcrumbs d1


----------



## RedneckPhoenix

usually DON'T, sorry. typo


----------



## Mawile

usually you lay them down d1 in such a way that isn't incredibly obvious and then use them later for strategic effect


----------



## Hydreigon25

RedneckPhoenix said:


> so are you claiming town roleblocker


i'm not claiming anything, but i left some hints ( see below )



Hydreigon25 said:


> _Town_ shouldn't waste any actions on me for reasons i can't currently say why, due to it being early. However it _will help town_





Hydreigon25 said:


> i meant it _could help Town_ , _however i prefer not to reveal it yet though
> _


----------



## Zori

I'm probably dying (again), huh
I think that I will be going soon and may not be online for EoD

Do your best, okay?


----------



## Ys_

RedneckPhoenix said:


> woah woah why is mimikyu the scum tier
> 
> they work hard for recognition


Forgot to reply but lmao maybe. I used it bc it has a cute-ish appearance but hides something darker inside which I figure mafia can try to do as well



bruh moment said:


> secretive how?


Well, it could just be herbe being herbe but I was thinking of the way he refused to elaborate on his sus on koko and how he left thread after placing a vote without expanding on thoughts. But again, could just be a herbe thing or due to his role


----------



## Hydreigon25

i'm trying not to reveal too much info, since it's day 1 but leaving some clues for only town to pick up on


----------



## M&F

last hour!



Spoiler: is this vote history bothering you queen


----------



## RedneckPhoenix

???????????


----------



## RedneckPhoenix

okay so hydreigon is claiming town and possibly roleblocker


----------



## Mawile

Hydreigon25 said:


> clues for only town to pick up on


mafia reads the thread too, though??


----------



## bruh moment

bruh moment said:


> i think i'm going to go on *herbe, *i'll move it onto something more impactful if it looks like this vote will be useless considering it's like 1.5hr to EoD lol (+ will be elaborating in a second)


so ... first of all, i don't really claim to have that great of an understanding of herbe's meta because i think he's a bit, like, idiosyncratic in every game. i'm also not really committed to burying him and i kinda just want some dialogue about him because i've found his behavior really weird all game and it doesn't seem like anyone's touched on it at all

his first several posts are pretty much in either town/scumrange for him, they're just him vibing. that's chill. i was a little  at this vote:


Herbe said:


> Vipera Magnifica said:
> 
> 
> 
> In any case, I am keeping my vote here for the meantime to... how should I put it... "apply pressure".
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> VoteOn. Apply directly to the *Ultracool.*
> VoteOn. Apply directly to the *Ultracool.*
> VoteOn. Apply directly to the *Ultracool.*
Click to expand...

but was like, shrug, it's a joke vote. aside from this i think there's been a weird pattern of doubling votes and never really being able to elaborate on the rationale, though, in a way that's inconsistent with his ooctvt game (where he was distracted/sometimes similarly erratic but still able to give thoughts) and his cats game where pretty much the same was true, though he was overall just less present inthread.

in 329 he votes seshas, citing being convinced by rari's post (which, fair enough, esp if the above vote was just for lulz). i ask him if he has any general thoughts, to which he only says:


Herbe said:


> i don't particularly trust vm at the moment


but then after exactly one vmpost (where vm also votes seshas, but gives reasons why we should look at ultracool toMorrow) he says


Herbe said:


> vm has successfully regained my trust
> i could see a zori/mr. Cool w/w


for ... some reason that i guess will hopefully be clear whenever he's able to clarify, but under this assumption, it really doesn't make sense to me that his vmopinion got swayed here when he apparently didn't really feel all that badly about ultracool to begin with (but guesses at w/w, agrees with vm wondering if ultracool is intentionally pocketing us, etc).

then doubles mawile's pressure vote on hydreigon (seemingly without realizing what mawile was actually intending to accomplish?) and then this exchange kind of jarred me as well:


Vipera Magnifica said:


> if zori/ultracool are w/w we've been waiting for a third wagon to arise and i think this is it





Herbe said:


> eh, fine. *unvote*


----------



## RedneckPhoenix

i'm still just baffled by hydreigon's quotepost and all the things that they're just 

not reading?


----------



## RedneckPhoenix

also it's rnp

rsp is me and stryke's hydra


----------



## Hydreigon25

RedneckPhoenix said:


> okay so hydreigon is claiming town and possibly roleblocker


I never said anything about that, I'm just a _regular town_ gym leader


----------



## Herbe

eh might as well claim. I'm selfaligned and have a limited neighbourizing power but it costs 3 badges so I doubt it'll see the light of day.


----------



## Herbe

That's why I haven't been acting particularly townie haha. I've just been Vibing


----------



## Negrek

Hmm.

A little worried about activated alien. Maybe better to vig rather than lynch?

Of course, if Zori IS our only vig, that'd be problematic because they need badges and don't seem super likely to get them.


----------



## Herbe

See: the gain my favor post and the other early posts I think i made. Y'all can yeet me or not but it's not gonna help you scumhunt tbh tbh.


----------



## bruh moment

Ysabel said:


> Well, it could just be herbe being herbe but I was thinking of the way he refused to elaborate on his sus on koko and how he left thread after placing a vote without expanding on thoughts. But again, could just be a herbe thing or due to his role


the koko thing is just herbe being herbe i think, the vote placement (as i mention above) is kind of weird to me too

*putting the tl;dr up here*: seshas has been acting weird, i don't agree with The Suggestion that got her this high in the vote ranking, but i think the voting response was disproportionate/indicative of wolves driving the wagon

i think maybe this will crystallize more when rari returns and we chat about it, and also full disclosure that i'm still in the process of understanding seshas' role/ability claims, so ... i'm going to be going through that still, and if anyone wants to talk to me about it please do. this is pretty much a metaread

but ... i think that her throwing out that [weird] roleclaim idea early d1 is itself approx. NAI and something she'd do as jumpy town or as Conniving Wolf. i'm more interested in how she dealt with the fallout from it, i really think she sounded insecure in a real way and for some reason i'm unwilling to fully scumread her for it. i agree entirely that her initial suggestion was like, kind of fundamentally misguided, but i don't fully believe that it was worth the backlash it got - and i really don't think that an 8/2/1/1/1 or whatever landslide is a proportionate response, to the point where i think it's wolf-driven (especially with the timing of the vote placements)


Zori said:


> I also think the claims were mostly unnecessary? sorry if I was unclear
> I only was advocationg to claim if you're pretty sure that you can at least clear yourself and either clear or condemn someone else (Doctor, RBer in a low-power setup, or one that gets feedback from successes in some fashion?)


like this premise is "correct," even if i completely and unequivocally also think that no one with this knowledge/certainty exists in this game. i don't think it makes sense for w!seshas to go on into the new (irl) day trying to explain this, and i don't think that she would do this instead of glossing over it


----------



## Herbe

i'm not alien role. If you let me live another day I'll tell you more about how my role works (although not Every detail ofc)


----------



## bruh moment

Herbe said:


> eh might as well claim. I'm selfaligned and have a limited neighbourizing power but it costs 3 badges so I doubt it'll see the light of day.


oh. what's your flavor?
-m


----------



## Herbe

i have never herbed more in my life


----------



## Herbe

Lemme go find it and paraphrase it mewt dearest


----------



## Herbe

tl;dr i like cilantro. what are ya gonna do, evict me?


----------



## bruh moment

btw before i forget
+v to mawile for the hydreigon vote, i think mafia (and esp w!mawile) would be content letting hydreigon hijinks distract the thread. i have nebulous mawile thoughts aside from that though so i'll also look at him toNight probably

-m


----------



## bruh moment

Herbe said:


> tl;dr i like cilantro. what are ya gonna do, evict me?


is it not a move or something with a title?


----------



## Herbe

my hydre vote was just me being annoyed and me going eh, fine, unvote was based on q's post about voting for annoyance really isn't cool.

I have striaton style rotation, play nice, and swagger


----------



## Herbe

Play nice is the neighborizing thing


----------



## Herbe

me liking cilantro was me being self-aligned, that was the flavor that uh. "explained" that


----------



## bruh moment

bruh moment said:


> i really don't think that an 8/2/1/1/1 or whatever landslide is a proportionate response, to the point where i think it's wolf-driven (especially with the timing of the vote placements)


btw this is also why i'm concerned about just writing it off as a bus, the wagon's literally just been allowed to grow and i also don't really know who would be gaining much cred from seshas flipping red (aside from like, rari for authoring The Post)

mafia doesn't actually want a wolf to go down d1 and will generally do something to divert the wagon unless it's unsalvageable. i don't really believe seshas was unsalvageable


----------



## rari_teh

i’m back on desktop until EoD

first off i must say i agree on pretty much everything bruh pointed out about herbe. he’s currently on my PoE, though not too high on it. he’s sure acting jittery, sheeping people up and down and voting without giving thoughts at all. also he’s said he’s certain that koko is mafia, won’t elaborate and never voted koko at all.

i would elaborate more, but i think his self-aligned claim is believable? though i’ll still keep an eye out on him.

wrt zori i still fully stand by my longpost


----------



## Herbe

rari_teh said:


> also he’s said he’s certain that koko is mafia, won’t elaborate and never voted koko at all.


LMAO still laughing that y'all thought my kokomemery was legit... man I just be sayin stuff. No thoughts head empty.


----------



## bruh moment

bruh moment said:


> i also don't really know who would be gaining much cred from seshas flipping red (aside from like, rari for authoring The Post)


ie i see no huge incentive to bus and i don't think that people would have suffered a popularity hit or w/e for disagreeing with rari's post/offering resistance


----------



## Herbe

When I Say No I Won't Elaborate I Mean There's Genuinely Nothing To Elaborate. I just decided it


----------



## bruh moment

ok. yeah eh. *unvote*


----------



## RedneckPhoenix

ok we need to find two doctors and have them both heal zori-


----------



## rari_teh

bruh moment said:


> btw this is also why i'm concerned about just writing it off as a bus, the wagon's literally just been allowed to grow and i also don't really know who would be gaining much cred from seshas flipping red (aside from like, rari for authoring The Post)
> 
> mafia doesn't actually want a wolf to go down d1 and will generally do something to divert the wagon unless it's unsalvageable. i don't really believe seshas was unsalvageable


people can be busy. see ooctvtmqm d1 according to koko.
zori is acting as if nothing were happening. just like in ooc d1. the only difference is that she didn’t resort to meowing and purring.

i do have very solid thoughts on a third person though, whose posts are tilting me more than they should, but i’d rather keep quiet until d2 because i might be too tunneled with no good reason


----------



## bruh moment

i just feel not good about the seshas wagon tbqh, i'll feel like a clown if she's just mafia but it doesn't totally make sense to me for her to be


----------



## RedneckPhoenix

dear hydreigon: this is a joke based on tvt mafia. it is not a serious message.


----------



## RedneckPhoenix

rari_teh said:


> i do have very solid thoughts on a third person though, whose posts are tilting me more than they should, but i’d rather keep quiet until d2 because i might be too tunneled with no good reason


is it stryke


----------



## bruh moment

rari_teh said:


> zori is acting as if nothing were happening. just like in ooc d1. the only difference is that she didn’t resort to meowing and purring.


she definitely isn't though, she interacted with the discussion pretty much all that she could imo. part of my read is that she didn't avoid it


rari_teh said:


> people can be busy. see ooctvtmqm d1 according to koko.


that isn't a reason to assume that's what's happening now, or what has been happening /all/ day


----------



## bruh moment

don't make the joke, mewtini. don't make the joke. don't make the fucking-


rari_teh said:


> i do have very solid thoughts on a third person though, whose posts are tilting me more than they should, but i’d rather keep quiet until d2 because i might be too tunneled with no good reason


could this be a bruh moment?!


----------



## bruh moment

bruh moment said:


> rari_teh said:
> 
> 
> 
> zori is acting as if nothing were happening. just like in ooc d1. the only difference is that she didn’t resort to meowing and purring.
> 
> 
> 
> she definitely isn't though, she interacted with the discussion pretty much all that she could imo. part of my read is that she didn't avoid it
> 
> 
> rari_teh said:
> 
> 
> 
> people can be busy. see ooctvtmqm d1 according to koko.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> that isn't a reason to assume that's what's happening now, or what has been happening /all/ day
Click to expand...

ftr if the vote timings weren't what they are i'd be inclined to entertain the second post you made
-m


----------



## rari_teh

LMFAO
maybe i should just post my tierlist



Spoiler: The Tierlist™, ordered within tiers



*Sylveon*
rari_teh

*Gardevoir* (stronger townleans)
ysa
rnp
blu

*Mawile* (weaker townleans)
ultracool
vm

*Clefairy* (Fear, never lose an eye)
bruh

*Jigglypuff* (null)
mawile
tofu
myuma
herbe
hydrei
stryke
jack

*Dedenne* (perish)
kokorico
negrek
zori

*Hidden Power* (???)
zm

*PoE:* zori > negrek > koko > jack > stryke?


----------



## Mawile

rari_teh said:


> tierlist


thank you for giving me my own tier


----------



## bruh moment

rari_teh said:


> (Fear, never lose an eye)


what does this mean,


----------



## rari_teh

bruh moment said:


> she definitely isn't though, she interacted with the discussion pretty much all that she could imo. part of my read is that she didn't avoid it


i really don’t see her interacting with the issues raised by her wagon tbh


----------



## rari_teh

bruh moment said:


> rari_teh said:
> 
> 
> 
> (Fear, never lose an eye)
> 
> 
> 
> what does this mean,
Click to expand...

it means that, at the same time i’m mortally afraid of being pocketed, some posts gave me major pause
in other words, “keep an eye 24/7, sort out only if highly necessary in endgame”


----------



## rari_teh

fwiw koko was in that tier as well before, but then. i changed my mind.


----------



## rari_teh

also to be clear, this


rari_teh said:


> i do have very solid thoughts on a third person though, whose posts are tilting me more than they should, but i’d rather keep quiet until d2 because i might be too tunneled with no good reason


is about someone in my PoE


----------



## bruh moment

rari_teh said:


> i really don’t see her interacting with the issues raised by her wagon tbh


i'm talking about pretty much every post on page 2 of her iso here, maybe you don't think she interacted with it satisfactorily/dislike that she never renounced the original suggestion, but she didn't avoid or ignore people talking about it in the brazen way she did in ooc. while she literally didn't acknowledge us talking about her reaction to the cult stuff there
-m


----------



## bruh moment

like this in particular is something that i think indicates that she cared more about/had far more genuine interest in interacting with people inthread than she did in ooc


bruh moment said:


> Zori said:
> 
> 
> 
> I think this is my cue to bow out of the thread
> 
> 
> 
> er ... i'm sorry if i came off weird/aggressive or something, that wasn't my intention :'D
> -m
Click to expand...




Zori said:


> no just that I have stopped communicating clearly


but it's like 25 to EoD, i realize i won't convince you, and i guess the wagons won't change because no one's here, so shrug. this just feels like the easiest ML ever lol and i really cannot find like, any pushback against this wagon even with all the time it's had to grow

on the other hand, i can see a ton of people who've fueled the fire or said "yeah she's acting weird" but not substantiating it, and just because mafia fell short ooc d1 doesn't mean that it's a good strat to go ahead with this now - that wasn't a new/developing meta, mafia just fucked up in that phase
-m


----------



## rari_teh

bruh moment said:


> i'm talking about pretty much every post on page 2 of her iso here, maybe you don't think she interacted with it satisfactorily/dislike that she never renounced the original suggestion, but she didn't avoid or ignore people talking about it in the brazen way she did in ooc. while she literally didn't acknowledge us talking about her reaction to the cult stuff there
> -m


i skimmed through these posts and i really don’t see it
like, she did nothing but double down on her suggestion. and our gripe with her here isn’t her reaction to something, but rather what she’s trying to push, which is decidedly antitown. i don’t think these situations are comparable to this degree

she didn’t even try to defend her suggestion imo. she just repeated herself over

i might be making a massive clown of myself here, but i really can’t see a world where zori is town here


----------



## rari_teh

bruh moment said:


> but it's like 25 to EoD, i realize i won't convince you, and i guess the wagons won't change because no one's here, so shrug. this just feels like the easiest ML ever lol and i really cannot find like, any pushback against this wagon even with all the time it's had to grow
> 
> on the other hand, i can see a ton of people who've fueled the fire or said "yeah she's acting weird" but not substantiating it, and just because mafia fell short ooc d1 doesn't mean that it's a good strat to go ahead with this now - that wasn't a new/developing meta, mafia just fucked up in that phase
> -m


it may have been unintentional in ooc, but it sure almost worked to clear koko, didn’t it? i don’t think it’d be too much of a stretch to imagine that the mafia here would adopt that as a real strategy

this being said, maybe i’d be willing to jump ship if a counterwagon on person-i’m-tunneled-on arose, even if i know that it would probably not be the most rational move on my part


----------



## bruh moment

rari_teh said:


> like, she did nothing but double down on her suggestion. and our gripe with her here isn’t her reaction to something, but rather what she’s trying to push, which is decidedly antitown. i don’t think these situations are comparable to this degree


i understand what you're saying, but i think that it's very possible to compare the ways she handles the situations tbh. she didn't even acknowledge that we were saying anything; here she's trying to interact. it's not as if she hasn't had moments in other games where she's struggled with communicating her thoughts


rari_teh said:


> i don’t think it’d be too much of a stretch to imagine that the mafia here would adopt that as a real strategy


you think it makes sense to voluntarily give up (not even just give up, _push_) lose a wolf d1 for that ... ? i think you're assigning a lot of credence to a situation that was a fluke, and also r*esulted in a town win*

anyway, i really hope that she flips red and that i can just vibe. i also think that if she does that mafia is doing something incredibly strangely


----------



## bruh moment

bruh moment said:


> she didn't even acknowledge that we were saying anything


in ooc


----------



## rari_teh

bruh moment said:


> you think it makes sense to voluntarily give up (not even just give up, _push_) lose a wolf d1 for that ... ? i think you're assigning a lot of credence to a situation that was a fluke, and also r*esulted in a town win*


it resulted in a town win because of a combination of many factors, included but not limited to qva redchecking koko n0, who would otherwise be pretty much cleared due to how d1 played out


----------



## rari_teh

rari_teh said:


> it resulted in a town win because of a combination of many factors, included but not limited to qva redchecking koko n0, who would otherwise be pretty much cleared due to how d1 played out


wait

yeah nvm you’re right, there’s no real person here who would be cleared besides. maybe me? lol


----------



## rari_teh

it’s nine minutes to EoD so a) i have no time to compile a longpost and b) this will most likely fail, but. allow me some panicscience
*negrek*


----------



## bruh moment

rari_teh said:


> bruh moment said:
> 
> 
> 
> you think it makes sense to voluntarily give up (not even just give up, _push_) lose a wolf d1 for that ... ? i think you're assigning a lot of credence to a situation that was a fluke, and also r*esulted in a town win*
> 
> 
> 
> it resulted in a town win because of a combination of many factors, included but not limited to qva redchecking koko n0, who would otherwise be pretty much cleared due to how d1 played out
Click to expand...

i get you
i just see no way in hell i, as wolf, would be planning all of d1 to bus my teammate in the hopes of clearing someone else. this plan would have had to have been set in motion hours and hours ago


----------



## bruh moment

rari_teh said:


> it’s nine minutes to EoD so a) i have no time to compile a longpost and b) this will most likely fail, but. allow me some panicscience
> *negrek*


talk to me rq about it?


----------



## rari_teh

bruh moment said:


> rari_teh said:
> 
> 
> 
> it’s nine minutes to EoD so a) i have no time to compile a longpost and b) this will most likely fail, but. allow me some panicscience
> *negrek*
> 
> 
> 
> talk to me rq about it?
Click to expand...

literally every post she made pinged me as strongly antitown
mainly she badgered rnp for details about his badgepower that would only be interesting to mafia (i.e. _will mafia be alerted somehow if you activate it? -- _aka _is it possible for you to falsely post the activation phrase without being activated and make the mafia waste an entire night?_)
also her last post. i don’t even recall what it was but it was so absurd i angry-reacted
also also her push for an abstain, which is probably just old meta carrying over but i’m tilted nonetheless


----------



## Negrek

...I fail to see what's so absurd about wanting to lynch self-proclaimed third-party but not wanting to do so because we had a no-kill night?

Look forward to discussing tomorrow, I guess.


----------



## Negrek

I can tell we simply have deep disagreements over playstyle, and this is going to be exhausting.


----------



## Bluwiikoon

Tfw u wake up with two minutes left in the Day


----------



## Mawile

good night everyone


----------



## bruh moment

Negrek said:


> ...I fail to see what's so absurd about wanting to lynch self-proclaimed third-party but not wanting to do so because we had a no-kill night?


wait, was it herbe or seshas who you thought was maybe alien?


----------



## Negrek

Herbe


----------



## rari_teh

Negrek said:


> ...I fail to see what's so absurd about wanting to lynch self-proclaimed third-party but not wanting to do so because we had a no-kill night?
> 
> Look forward to discussing tomorrow, I guess.


dude, come on
zori is a one-badge-powered vig with a passive that prohibits her from shooting if she’s visited
that does not make sense unless a) she’s lying or b) she’s a mafia extra kp

it is absurd to say zori is activated alien. she’s not actively trying to get lynched


----------



## rari_teh

Negrek said:


> Herbe


ah, this makes more sense


----------



## Negrek

why in god's name would I be talking about Zori there

come on


----------



## Bluwiikoon

Love all y'all! Make sure you hydrate, nutrient, and rest as needed!


----------



## M&F

*The day is over. Stop posting, and hold for results.*


----------



## bruh moment

hahaha. wrong person teehee
anyway herbe makes more sense but i kind of don't think anything about him pinged me as activated alien either, he honestly is just kind of like that and i think most people here would have (and did?) write him off as just memeing around
-m


----------



## M&F

Night One of Tournament Coverage

I am afraid I must come to you, faithful reader, with an apology to start with. I had hoped to see the bonds between Pokémon and trainer on display today; instead, what I saw at the arena was a most suspicious no-show. There was no notice of an expected delay; and after the grace period of fifteen minutes had passed, the wayward competitor proved to be absent from her premises in the official Pokémon World Tournament lodges as well.

Some would say that it was an innocent mistake; others would brand it intentional anti-game. Either way, the paying spectators became wroth with the lack of a battle and took to the streets for some form of retribution; within an hour, they had cornered *Jasmine* by the edge of a seacliff. This manner of mob justice is... well, I disagree. It would also be a more optimal result if we could know, at the time of this writing, the fate of her corpse; I hope that the authorities will search the coastal shelf thorougly.

In the wake of this unfortunate event, a sickly Ampharos was left behind. I have personally taken custody of it, for now. It does not seem to trust readily, but that is within the accepted parameters. It will only take a day or two for me to complete my Device for Diagnostic Analysis of Enfeebled, Zap-Prone Ampharoids, and I should be able to treat the Pokémon thereafter -- in a most hands-free manner.
-Colress, Researcher, Engineer, and Pokémon Trainer

*Zori, the Jasmine, is dead. She was self-aligned.

48 hours for night actions.*



Spoiler: final vote count and history



Zori(x): Vipera Magnifica, Ysabel, Mr. Ultracool, Tofu, Bluwiikoon, Mawile, kokorico, Stryke
Abstain(2): Hydreigon25, Negrek
Mr. Ultracool(1): JackPK
Hydreigon25(1): RedneckPhoenix
Herbe(1): Zori
Negrek(1): rari_teh






Spoiler: pingers



@Mawile
@RedneckPhoenix
@Bluwiikoon
@Herbe
@rari_teh
@Zero Moment
@Mr. Ultracool
@ミ☆ ᴍyᴜᴍᴀ
@Vipera Magnifica
@Stryke
@Tofu
@Negrek
@kokorico
Zori
@bruh moment
@Hydreigon25
@JackPK
@Ysabel


----------



## M&F

Day Two Pregame Column

I don't want to say I told you so, but man... I told you so. These tournament bigshots are already at each other's throats.

What I love about this city, though... is that there's always a new surprise right around the corner. Y'see, they didn't just murder *Volkner*. They also left behind the most bizarre crime scene anyone's done seen lately. The cops who went there to investigate... one of them got swept of his feet by a tripwire, and the other got a bucket stuck on her head as soon as she pushed the door out. There were zany things like these all over the guy's hotel room... some of them already fired, others were still primed. What really got the investigation team's attention, though, was a big ol' pile of rubble in the corner... and that's where they found the guy's finely charbroiled corpse.

Now, there was also that guy from Striaton... *Cilan*, I think that was his name. He's gone down a bad way, too, but that was a great deal less subtle; whoever did him in just clobbered him, left him full'a bruises and swollen spots. For all I know, he had it coming, though... I don't know what you've heard, but I've been telling y'all for a long time now: ol' Charles knew there was _some_ truth to that Shadow Triangle theory or however that whole thing went.

Now, the other bigshot's not anyone I know, but I've been hearing things, too. Apparently, he's so crazy strong as a Pokémon trainer, he got bored of battling, so he figured he'd cause a blackout instead. I don't know the details.

Now, you might be thinking that I'm spouting a whole lot of things that have no place in a publication like Pokémon Journal, because it doesn't meet any sort of journalistic standards. Here's the thing, though: I'm not a journalist. I'm a heartbreaker... my name... Charles.

*Herbe, the Cilan, has died. He was self-aligned.
Hydreigon25, the Volkner, has died. They were Town.

48 hours for discussion.*



Spoiler: pinguins



@Mawile
@RedneckPhoenix
@Bluwiikoon
Herbe
@rari_teh
@Zero Moment
@Mr. Ultracool
@ミ☆ ᴍyᴜᴍᴀ
@Vipera Magnifica
@Stryke
@Tofu
@Negrek
@kokorico
Zori
@bruh moment
Hydreigon25
@JackPK
@Ysabel


----------



## bruh moment

nooooo ...

i forgot that a side-effect of seshas being 3p was that we probably still had a vig though so that's something!
-m


----------



## bruh moment

the angry react omfg
herbe i'm SORRY okay
also this is bittersweet because i was about to tunnel herbe so at least i don't have to clown it up that way
-m


----------



## Herbe

I'm Grumpin!!!!!!!!
back to my regularly scheduled being dead i suppose


----------



## JackPK

Hmmm, my night action got an interesting result on several counts.

So for context, my free night action targets two players (it is not Bus Driver or similar, but I'll refrain on claiming exactly what it is unless it comes down to a fullclaim situation). Last night I targeted RNP and Hydreigon.

I got my normal expected result, plus the "RNP is mafia" result that RNP told us about, plus this:

"and furthermore, hmmmadksfhjajkfakdfbasdkhjazzzzzzzzzzt"

And then it told me I cannot take actions until the night after next.


----------



## JackPK

My best guess is that Hydreigon had some kind of role that reactively blocks people who target them, or something like that.


----------



## bruh moment

bruh moment said:


> i forgot that a side-effect of seshas being 3p was that we probably still had a vig though so that's something!
> -m


hmm. does anyone have any like ... thoughts about which would have been the nk. neither really make sense to me. i guess this doesn't totally matter but i can understand a vig hitting either, but not mafia
tierlist coming at some point probably
-m


----------



## Mawile

what's up my power (as in electricity) is currently out. i will be here later


----------



## bruh moment

JackPK said:


> My best guess is that Hydreigon had some kind of role that reactively blocks people who target them, or something like that.


hm ok. so you're thinking that the 'furthermore' thing wasn't from rnp then?
-m


----------



## JackPK

bruh moment said:


> JackPK said:
> 
> 
> 
> My best guess is that Hydreigon had some kind of role that reactively blocks people who target them, or something like that.
> 
> 
> 
> hm ok. so you're thinking that the 'furthermore' thing wasn't from rnp then?
> -m
Click to expand...

I cannot rule out that possibility, but the RNP thing and the furthermore thing were presented on separate lines, just like my usual result was presented on a separate line, so my gut reaction is that the formatting implies furthermore and RNP aren't related.


----------



## Vipera Magnifica

JackPK said:


> My best guess is that Hydreigon had some kind of role that reactively blocks people who target them, or something like that.


I got the feeling from the flavor text that Hydreigon's role has some negative effect on people who visit them

My first thought was granny/paranoid gun owner but that wouldn't be possible if Jack visited Hydreigon


----------



## rari_teh

JackPK said:


> My best guess is that Hydreigon had some kind of role that reactively blocks people who target them, or something like that.


he was an electric gym leader iirc
maybe you got paralyzed


----------



## Vipera Magnifica

Does anyone have any theories for Seshas' role?


----------



## bruh moment

Vipera Magnifica said:


> Does anyone have any theories for Seshas' role?


farthest i've gotten is "something that wants badges" considering the badgepowered vig claim
interestingly herbe also was badgefishing, i wonder if it was part of both of their wincons or something
-m


----------



## rari_teh

i have a theory for who was the nightkill though
maybe herbe was activated alien and the mafia took the wise decision of offing him toNight


----------



## Tofu

Ah, when I read Jack's post I thought he got electrocuted, which would make sense if hyd picked an electric gym leader

I wanted to try to go back in the sign-up thread and make a list of what gym leader everyone chose (is it posted in a neat way somewhere?) because I'm thinking the flavor text is hinting who caused the death actions based on Pokemon/leader types. Reading through it I can see phrases indicating fighting type (beat up), fire (charbroiled), and rock (rubble)?


----------



## Vipera Magnifica

MampersandF said:


> finely charbroiled corpse.


wait a sec if this was the mafia kill a fire-type gym leader was probably responsible

unless that was the vig


----------



## JackPK

Tofu said:


> I wanted to try to go back in the sign-up thread and make a list of what gym leader everyone chose (is it posted in a neat way somewhere?) because I'm thinking the flavor text is hinting who caused the death actions based on Pokemon/leader types. Reading through it I can see phrases indicating fighting type (beat up), fire (charbroiled), and rock (rubble)?


Here's a snip from my spreadsheet:


----------



## JackPK

oh that came out bigger than I expected


----------



## Vipera Magnifica

@Mr. Ultracool who did you watch last night?


----------



## Stryke

I get the feeling that Herbe was our mafiakill and Hydre was our vig/3p/whatever kill, based on the vibes I'm getting from the flavor, but I'm not sure if that really helps town in any way


----------



## rari_teh

Tofu said:


> Ah, when I read Jack's post I thought he got electrocuted, which would make sense if hyd picked an electric gym leader
> 
> I wanted to try to go back in the sign-up thread and make a list of what gym leader everyone chose (is it posted in a neat way somewhere?) because I'm thinking the flavor text is hinting who caused the death actions based on Pokemon/leader types. Reading through it I can see phrases indicating fighting type (beat up), fire (charbroiled), and rock (rubble)?


here it is, my fellow kalosian :3


----------



## Vipera Magnifica

JackPK said:


> Tofu said:
> 
> 
> 
> I wanted to try to go back in the sign-up thread and make a list of what gym leader everyone chose (is it posted in a neat way somewhere?) because I'm thinking the flavor text is hinting who caused the death actions based on Pokemon/leader types. Reading through it I can see phrases indicating fighting type (beat up), fire (charbroiled), and rock (rubble)?
> 
> 
> 
> Here's a snip from my spreadsheet:
> 
> View attachment 752
Click to expand...

making a spreadsheet?

damn *JackPK* you just gave yourself away


----------



## Stryke

JackPK said:


> Tofu said:
> 
> 
> 
> I wanted to try to go back in the sign-up thread and make a list of what gym leader everyone chose (is it posted in a neat way somewhere?) because I'm thinking the flavor text is hinting who caused the death actions based on Pokemon/leader types. Reading through it I can see phrases indicating fighting type (beat up), fire (charbroiled), and rock (rubble)?
> 
> 
> 
> Here's a snip from my spreadsheet:
> 
> View attachment 752
Click to expand...

my first reaction to seeing this was "wait how do you know jack is town" lmao


----------



## JackPK

if I'm remembering the gym leaders correctly without looking them up, there are no fighting, fire, or rock gym leaders in the game, much less still alive


----------



## Tofu

Thanks, Jack and Rari! I knew a few people would have been more organized than myself about it


----------



## JackPK

oh rari posted the types while I was trying to remember them off the top of my head lmao


----------



## Stryke

Beat up could maybe also be Dark, bc of the move, and charbroiled could maaaaaybe be electric as well? But if I have to stretch that much to make those connections, I doubt it's worth pursuing further


----------



## rari_teh

ninja’d by jack but. glad i was useful nonetheless. lol


----------



## JackPK

Tofu said:


> Reading through it I can see phrases indicating fighting type (beat up), fire (charbroiled), and rock (rubble)?


Thinking about this further, charbroiled might also indicate electric, in which case that would be Zero Moment? and Beat Up is a dark-type move, and our only dark-type leader is Ysabel...

(not that any flavor is necessarily even relevant at all lmao)


----------



## JackPK

oh ninja'd by Stryke

we are all posting simultaneously tonight aren't we


----------



## Vipera Magnifica

who even has access to fire-type moves? Cheren?


----------



## Hydreigon25

i think RNP really had it in for me so no badge for him!!!!!!!!
why did you vote me Maywile ?
back to being dead i suppose


----------



## Vipera Magnifica

*Hydreigon25* bruh moment


----------



## rari_teh

JackPK said:


> Thinking about this further, charbroiled might also indicate electric, in which case that would be Zero Moment?


hydreigon themself was electric. maybe it’s a nod to that?


----------



## bruh moment

bruh moment said:


> tierlist coming at some point probably


jk that 'some point' is now, i forgot i had it haphazardly written out already
not really ordered and i am uh, struggling with sticking to reads/my tier ratios are kind of disheartening, but here they are as compiled at 2am last nite  + added some notes about the cluster around null


Spoiler: mewtierlist









_townreading_
rari
rnp
blu






_townleaning_
vm
jack (oscillating read, TRing on meta/going off of wolfing with him in tarot for now though)
ysabel
stryke (toneread tbh, functionally maybe closer to null)
ultracool (gut-TL because meta?)






_somewhere around null, orderedish_
negrek (reserving some judgment because i falsely SRed her instantly in tvt, think most of what she's said is NAI for her but idrk)
mawile
zm
myuma
koko (SL)






_thinking emoji_
tofu


@rari_teh can you talk to me more about tofuthoughts/what you liked about her posting? and is your neg read in the same place still
have other questions somewhere but am discombobulated atm and can't find them, maybe soon to come. i think i'll recompile what i asked in my longpost from EoD1


----------



## rari_teh

currently in the process of ISOing negrek and tofu to compile thoughts for bruh, but first i have a question for everybody

did anyone wake up today extremely weary? to the point of barely being able to move a muscle?


----------



## bruh moment

kind of frustrated because i feel like the three flips we've gotten so far are like
mostly things that i'm not sure how to get information out of

most major takeaway i could get was that i could follow my EoD read about the seshas wagon running away, there were some people who i thought had inconsistent takes/reasons to SR seshas compared to other people (like, ultracool)

went through my longpost and realized that almost everything is irrelevant because of the deaths lol. only thing remaining - @Vipera Magnifica where are you at on tofu? (in particular, the way she claimed initially?) + are you still SRing ultracool?

-m


----------



## JackPK

not in game, no

IRL, that was me yesterday


----------



## JackPK

(oh that was a reply to rari, I got ninja'd)


----------



## bruh moment

rari_teh said:


> did anyone wake up today extremely weary? to the point of barely being able to move a muscle?


when do i not feel like this tbh
-m


----------



## RedneckPhoenix

hydreigon fuck off stop posting


----------



## RedneckPhoenix

you're dead


----------



## RedneckPhoenix

if i "have it in for you" it's bc you keep breaking rules and formatting in intentionally frustrating ways


----------



## M&F

alright, alright, I've let one venty, contentless post slide from both them and Herbe; I understand if you're having flashbacks to more directly illegal stuff from other games, but can you guys please not pick fights with hydreigon25 without good reason


----------



## Zero Moment

excuse me what


----------



## RedneckPhoenix

what


----------



## bruh moment

i think zm is reacting to the Night One Death Toll


----------



## Ys_

In relation to Hydre's power I thought it was more or less obvious? They claimed a sort of roleblocker and they were telling town not to visit them and it would be beneficial to town. Said in another way, they roleblock anyone who visits them for the next nightphase. rip
I'll talk more later but wanted to get this out of the way


----------



## RedneckPhoenix

probably static as an ability


----------



## Mawile

my irl electricity is back


----------



## Zero Moment

ok that makes sense Ysabel.
We have a strangely large ratio of dead 3ps to townies


----------



## bruh moment

oh yeah in re: the flavortalk, i think the flavor would have more to do with move type and not /leader/ type (might be the same in some cases but maybe not in others?)


Zero Moment said:


> We have a strangely large ratio of dead 3ps to townies


yeah
i think maybe i'll write it off as ... the 3ps didn't feel like acting very towny this game though
-m


----------



## Vipera Magnifica

bruh moment said:


> went through my longpost and realized that almost everything is irrelevant because of the deaths lol. only thing remaining - @Vipera Magnifica where are you at on tofu? (in particular, the way she claimed initially?) + are you still SRing ultracool?


I’ll try to think more about that tomorrow but really not 100% sure about Tofu... I slightly townlean her but also want to be wary of being pocketed.

I’m kinda feeling more neutral about Ultracool now, I want to hear who they watched last night though.

Pretty tired; gonna call it a night but I’ll try to have more thoughts tomorrow


----------



## bruh moment

also quick note, i said earlier that i was guessing at 5 wolves given 18 players, but the 3p flips throws off the ratio (since it would be 5w/2t/11v -> really bad scum/town ratio) so maybe uh. 4?
-m


----------



## Mawile

MampersandF said:


> They also left behind the most bizarre crime scene anyone's done seen lately. The cops who went there to investigate... one of them got swept of his feet by a tripwire, and the other got a bucket stuck on her head as soon as she pushed the door out. There were zany things like these all over the guy's hotel room... some of them already fired, others were still primed.


so these are all traps, right


(i am probably tinfoil hatting here tbh)


----------



## bruh moment

bruh moment said:


> also quick note, i said earlier that i was guessing at 5 wolves given 18 players, but the 3p flips throws off the ratio (since it would be 5w/2t/11v -> really bad scum/town ratio) so maybe uh. 4?
> -m


actually 4/11 still feels steep so i'll just put a pin in this
basically "5 seems wrong"
-m


----------



## bruh moment

does anyone who's been in mfia know how significant the flavor usually is
because part of me is like. if flavor is THAT relevant (like the trap thing) it feels like, too easy
-m


----------



## Mawile

bruh moment said:


> because part of me is like. if flavor is THAT relevant (like the trap thing) it feels like, too easy


it does feel too easy, but to be fair, so does trying to go off of potential move types


----------



## bruh moment

bruh moment said:


> bruh moment said:
> 
> 
> 
> also quick note, i said earlier that i was guessing at 5 wolves given 18 players, but the 3p flips throws off the ratio (since it would be 5w/2t/11v -> really bad scum/town ratio) so maybe uh. 4?
> -m
> 
> 
> 
> actually 4/11 still feels steep so i'll just put a pin in this
> basically "5 seems wrong"
> -m
Click to expand...

wait
just checked, realized mafia wincon in pokkén had to do with all living, not just town
-m


----------



## bruh moment

Mawile said:


> bruh moment said:
> 
> 
> 
> because part of me is like. if flavor is THAT relevant (like the trap thing) it feels like, too easy
> 
> 
> 
> it does feel too easy, but to be fair, so does trying to go off of potential move types
Click to expand...

i was also asking because i was a little worried about the move type assumption as well tbh
-m


----------



## Mawile

bruh moment said:


> just checked, realized mafia wincon in pokkén had to do with all living, not just town


this seems to be a constant, since mafia wincon in elite 4 choice, ORAS (kinda), and villianous team all had it phrased as "50% of all living players are [mafia]"


----------



## bruh moment

Mawile said:


> bruh moment said:
> 
> 
> 
> just checked, realized mafia wincon in pokkén had to do with all living, not just town
> 
> 
> 
> this seems to be a constant, since mafia wincon in elite 4 choice, ORAS (kinda), and villianous team all had it phrased as "50% of all living players are [mafia]"
Click to expand...

mm, yeah i was checking through those too
maybe scratch my other thing then, 5 might still be it
-m


----------



## Zero Moment

Mawile said:


> MampersandF said:
> 
> 
> 
> They also left behind the most bizarre crime scene anyone's done seen lately. The cops who went there to investigate... one of them got swept of his feet by a tripwire, and the other got a bucket stuck on her head as soon as she pushed the door out. There were zany things like these all over the guy's hotel room... some of them already fired, others were still primed.
> 
> 
> 
> so these are all traps, right
> 
> 
> Spoiler
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 755
> 
> 
> (i am probably tinfoil hatting here tbh)
Click to expand...


----------



## bruh moment

RedneckPhoenix said:


> fuck off stop posting


me @ everyone at all times
-q


----------



## Ys_

umm Hydre you're not supposed to react to game-relevant posts


----------



## rari_teh

bruh moment said:


> @rari_teh can you talk to me more about tofuthoughts/what you liked about her posting? and is your neg read in the same place still


first, my fellow kalosian tofu


Tofu said:


> Okay well, I just want to say, I didn't block the N0 kill. And I have no badge-costing abilities, but I can choose who to give badges to if I die! I also have a one-shot role (not badge-costy) but I'm going to hold off on saying what it is for now, because, no one else is really claiming. Just, don't give me your badges (if that's even a thing people can do here idk how badge work).


this was her first post. claiming not to have a badge-powered move would be a little risky considering everyone else who claimed did have one – and sure people did FoS her for that. while i don’t think it’s impossible for w!tofu to do that, be it in a fakeclaim or not, i believe this is >rand villa.

same goes to her subsequently asking people not to waste their badges on her, especially considering there was a claimed one-badge vig (who turned out to be phony but not related to the mafia)



Tofu said:


> I don't have a problem with claiming because my role isn't super powerful (but I guess potentially could be, once, if I have some information, which I cannot obtain myself). I would be okay with it for me but it makes sense if people are worried about exposing their roles to the mafia members. I think it'd be a nice change of pace to just have everyone claim D1 but don't think we'll get everyone to do that, lol.


this doesn’t feel forceful at all and fits her role to a tee, considering it’s a oneshot duplicator that only works if her target makes an action that Night. i believe this was really just tofu genuinely voicing her desire for a change of pace.



Tofu said:


> Whoa, how weird. Um... I think we could have a redirecting role that will confuse everyone (unless... One of you two had a motive to lie about visiting or not visiting dearest vm)


the fact that she posted this before vm claimed to have used attract on kokorico sounds towny for me as well. she could very easily jump to the conclusion that someone was lying; while she acknowledged the possibility, she put it as more of an afterthought



Tofu said:


> I can give out two badges when I die, so I would assume other members have a varying number of badges they can distribute?


this was posted after ultracool claimed to hand off one badge upon dying. if she were mafia i don’t think she’d be confused, since i’d imagine mafiosi must have a variable number of badges to distribute. this could be faked, but once again, slight v.



Tofu said:


> I didn't really see UC's above post when it was originally posted but I would also argue that, if Ultracool were mafia, why would he want to die and be killed by them just to distribute a badge or two (I still think watcher, or whatever his role is, could be useful and it already opened up interesting dialogue for today)? I'm not sure mafia would want to self-sacrifice to themselves, but, idk
> 
> Although the post is confusing to me. Like obviously whoever killed UC wouldn't announce it?


pointing out the flaws on ultracool’s plan is, once again, towny.

…at this point of the ISO i found an interesting contradiction.


Tofu said:


> So far I'm guessing the badges can only be distributed on someone's death? I kind of doubt there would be an action where it's just like "give a badge to someone once" because that would be a waste of an ability space?


@Tofu could you clarify what you meant by “that would be a waste of an ability space” considering that according to this later post:


Tofu said:


> Neither of my abilities cost badges, and my Vivillon's "move" is to give my two bug badges after I die, so it isn't really an ability.


you were assuming that your second ability was simply giving your two badges upon death?



Tofu said:


> Like wifom but maybe I shouldn't be talking so much about it; I thought if people knew my role, they might tell me when they were going to do something useful and I could more successfully copy someone's worthwhile action, especially now knowing that some things cost multiple badges to use and I could just duplicate it onto another target.


while this is seemingly pro-town, i can also see it as mafia interested in infofishing. judging from the larger picture, however, i am more inclined to read it as genuine, especially since she would most likely have to prove her ability after such an event



Tofu said:


> But why would I go out of my way to claim so early? I wanted to tell people so I could increase my chances of not failing at using my one-shot


makes sense, even if it’s a bit naïve at this point of the game imo since she’s probably now a prime mafia target



Tofu said:


> Bluwiikoon said:
> 
> 
> 
> Oh, wait!
> 
> 
> Tofu said:
> 
> 
> 
> Idk it just said "colorful scatter" was the move and I give away my badges through it. It made sense to me when I read it because it was like, I dead but my Pokemon isn't, so it helped me out? Maybe it's just to balance the power of my other role by making my Pokemon's role not really do anything, idk M&F's mind.
> 
> 
> 
> Are you saying you can redistribute extra badges that you've received from other people?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Um, wow, yes, I was just trying to come up with a way to say this in a way that didn't make me sound ridiculous. I didn't look at my PM when I was typing that post and, um, I can just say woops and beg for forgiveness.
> 
> Okay, the colorful scatter thing is this: I can distribute any badges I have acquired, after I die, to any combination of people I want.
> 
> In addition, my death ones are to distribute two bug badges to anyone I choose.
> 
> But yeah, for the colorful scatter to happen, I have to be dead, and it doesn't cost anything to activate.
Click to expand...

this is /very/ unsavoury and the only reason she’s on my null pile instead of the townleans. i’m still willing to give her the benefit of the doubt, though



Tofu said:


> I feel baaaad voting *Zori* because they believed my role claim and stuff, but I know yesterday I was thinking they stood out to me the most, and my other opinions haven't changed much overall. I might try to check in later before EOD and see if anything else has transpired, though.


i like how careful she was when placing her vote. she already voiced she was between zori and ultracool the day before but she decided to hold it to make a more informed vote

taking into account the vast majority of her posts are game-relevant and none of them feel like she’s steering discussion, i’d be very inclined to townlean her if it weren’t for the confusion around her colourful scatter ability.

negrek thoughts incoming in a second post.


----------



## rari_teh

@bruh moment my negrek thoughts are exactly where they were in EoD. i’m not willing to place a vote yet because i think there’s a chance i’m misunderstanding her, but she’s currently at the very top of my PoE and the more i look at her iso the worse i feel about her



Negrek said:


> How many badges do you need to vig someone?


this was her very first game-relevant post and second post overall. why would a townie need this information is beyond me. the only ways i can read this are a) curious townie and b) mafiosa trying to gauge for how long a zori nk could be postponed.



Negrek said:


> I'm not feeling super compelled by a lynch on either Zori or Mr. Ultracool at the moment, but I'm not feeling super compelled to lynch at all--with no deaths the first night, we essentially have another "free night" for inforoles with a decreased information disparity between Town and Mafia. In this scenario I think the downside of mislynching is higher than usual, since the worst case with no lynch is simply "another N0 but Town gets a second swing at all inforoles," compared to the worst case with a mislynch being "another N0 but Town gets a second swing at all inforoles, excluding the one we jettisoned." If absolutely forced to choose, I feel worse about Zori than Mr. Ultracool at the moment.


i won’t comment much on this because this is most likely just a difference on playstyles, but i am vehemently against abstentions. lynchings are the main way the town is able to kill mafiosi. as of D1 we didn’t even know if we had a vig besides possibly zori, who allegedly required one badge to vig.



Negrek said:


> Tofu said:
> 
> 
> 
> Anyway, I'll claim because I don't have a problem with people knowing, and it sounds like I wouldn't be a prime target atm:
> 
> I think mine like a one-shot ability duplicator: with my photography skills, I can choose a person to copy their action. Then, the next night or day phase (it said night or day? Are there day actions?), I will use that action. It could be useful if I know for sure who I am copying, but could also just fail if people fake roleclaim, so I'm a bit hesitant about it (especially now early game). Like I said, it's only a one-shot as well.
> 
> Just for reference in case people missed my other post: when I die, I can give two badges to someone of my choosing.
> 
> 
> 
> Hmm, so if I understand this right, you'd first use your ability in the night, targeting a person, and then MF would send you a PM saying what the ability you obtained was? Or are you not informed of what ability you get and just automatically use it at the next opportunity? Do you get to pick the target for your copied ability, or is it random, or perhaps aimed at the same player as the ability was originally aimed at?
> 
> If you're told the ability you got, even before you use it, this still seems quite powerful for its ability to confirm a claim... and obviously if you copied something useful, it could be quite powerful to get a second instance of it for a night.
Click to expand...

i might be misunderstanding, but once again i can only read this as a morbidly curious townie or a mafiosa infofishing. maybe i should reread negrek’s presence on tvt to freshen up, but i’m not comfortable with this pattern at all and i know it gets worse.



Negrek said:


> RedneckPhoenix said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bruh moment said:
> 
> 
> 
> rnp if you're telling the truth it was massively unwise to reveal your role like that tbh
> -q
> 
> 
> 
> yeah let me just grab 8 badges out of my fuckin cookie jar and pull out this power that notifies the mafia of when i'm using it
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I'm confused, do you mean the mafia would literally receive a system message telling them that they would all need to target you or have their alignments revealed to you, or just that they would know you'd used it because they would see the trigger phrase?
> 
> Also, what's the flavor for your abilities?
Click to expand...

this is the worst part imo. keith had already talked too much about his role and she asks for clarification on the one detail he left unclear that could leave mafia afraid to waste night actions on him in fears of getting outed. it gets less and less believable that negrek is just curious. _it gets worse._

keith replies to her citing only his flavour. this is her reply:


Negrek said:


> Thanks! Does the mafia get notified outside of the thread what your ability means, or do they only know you've triggered it based on the trigger phrase appearing in the thread?


_why would a townie be interested in knowing this_

when he spills it, this is what she says:


Negrek said:


> Huh, interesting. Thanks!
> 
> It's definitely an odd role, but not at all outside the realm of what I would expect from MF. If you're telling the truth about it, then yeah, I think bruh moment was right in that now the cat's out of the bag, it's unlikely we'll be able to take advantage of it. But it would be very powerful, and I wouldn't totally rule it out yet.


emphasis mine. i have no words.



Negrek said:


> A little worried about activated alien. Maybe better to vig rather than lynch?


considering that herbe, a self-proclaimed 3p, was seemingly the mafia kill toNight, i have the impression that the mafia shot herbe n0 and w!negrek is pulling her hair over the then recently-started herbewagon

this is pretty much the totality of the game-relevant posts that negrek made. maybe i should be more careful but there are almost two irl-days for me to change my mind. *negrek*


----------



## Ys_

JackPK said:


> Hmmm, my night action got an interesting result on several counts.
> 
> So for context, my free night action targets two players (it is not Bus Driver or similar, but I'll refrain on claiming exactly what it is unless it comes down to a fullclaim situation). Last night I targeted RNP and Hydreigon.
> 
> I got my normal expected result, plus the "RNP is mafia" result that RNP told us about, plus this:
> 
> "and furthermore, hmmmadksfhjajkfakdfbasdkhjazzzzzzzzzzt"
> 
> And then it told me I cannot take actions until the night after next.


Why did you target RNP and Hydre specifically?



rari_teh said:


> did anyone wake up today extremely weary? to the point of barely being able to move a muscle?


Do you mean irl?


----------



## rari_teh

Ysabel said:


> Do you mean irl?


nope.


----------



## rari_teh

after rereading a bit of tvt i got more comfortable in my vote
right back at ya, @bruh moment: could you give me your negrek and tofu thoughts?


----------



## Ys_

Well then not me


----------



## Mawile

i woke up irl like that but not in-game


----------



## RedneckPhoenix

gonna come out and say it now

i was totally bullshitting yall with my obscenely-overpowered role

*negrek*


----------



## RedneckPhoenix

i even breadcrumbed it in i think 456


----------



## JackPK

Ysabel said:


> JackPK said:
> 
> 
> 
> Hmmm, my night action got an interesting result on several counts.
> 
> So for context, my free night action targets two players (it is not Bus Driver or similar, but I'll refrain on claiming exactly what it is unless it comes down to a fullclaim situation). Last night I targeted RNP and Hydreigon.
> 
> I got my normal expected result, plus the "RNP is mafia" result that RNP told us about, plus this:
> 
> "and furthermore, hmmmadksfhjajkfakdfbasdkhjazzzzzzzzzzt"
> 
> And then it told me I cannot take actions until the night after next.
> 
> 
> 
> Why did you target RNP and Hydre specifically?
Click to expand...

RNP because we had previously agreed I would target him in order to check his claim that he broadcasts miller

I didn't want the other target to be someone that seemed likely to be cop/doc/other Important Roles just in case RNP was lying mafia and actually had some sort of role that might somehow bounce off me and hit the other target. I also didn't want the other target to be someone that was likely to be targeted by a bunch of other actions, to reduce the likelihood that those other actions might be something that could somehow screw up my action and make me unable to get RNP's broadcast and thereby check his claim. Hydreigon seemed an appropriate pick for those criteria IMO.


----------



## rari_teh

RedneckPhoenix said:


> but, uh, let's, let's see how it transpires.


ily keith


----------



## Mawile

rari_teh said:


> RedneckPhoenix said:
> 
> 
> 
> but, uh, let's, let's see how it transpires.
> 
> 
> 
> ily keith
Click to expand...

the next line of that post also spells out "claim" lmao


----------



## RedneckPhoenix

thank you for your name starting with an m mawile


----------



## RedneckPhoenix

worth knowing i asked mf last night if she accepted bribes and the answer was no


----------



## RedneckPhoenix

well, she said she would only accept bribes if she didn't catch me making bribes. my DEX is super low and i don't get many proficiencies so it's pretty much impossible for me


----------



## Mawile

RedneckPhoenix said:


> worth knowing i asked mf last night if she accepted bribes and the answer was no


to be fair you also asked me if i accepted bribes and the answer was also no


----------



## Mawile

Mawile said:


> RedneckPhoenix said:
> 
> 
> 
> worth knowing i asked mf last night if she accepted bribes and the answer was no
> 
> 
> 
> to be fair you also asked me if i accepted bribes and the answer was also no
Click to expand...

back in ooctvt i mean


----------



## bruh moment

rari_teh said:


> after rereading a bit of tvt i got more comfortable in my vote
> right back at ya, @bruh moment: could you give me your negrek and tofu thoughts?


yep! we are currently discussing, please hold for a bit uwu. will get back to you
-m


----------



## rari_teh

dw bruh. take your time uwu


----------



## bruh moment

rari_teh said:


> dw bruh


----------



## Bluwiikoon

Herbe noooo!!!  And Hydreigon!!

Hydreigon paralysing Jack makes sense imo, based on the softs Hydrei was making yesterDay about uhhh how town shouldn't target him. Other than that though, I guess our vig misfired? :( Good to know that we still have one, at least! ^^

I've been getting real bad stomach sickness so I may not be super active toDay, but I'll try my best as always!  Everyone, be sure to look after yourself too! Hydrate and eat foods, and sleep if you need a sleep!


----------



## Bluwiikoon

Noooooo the sad reacts!! I promise I'm looking after myself as best as I can! ^^


----------



## bruh moment

rari_teh said:


> after rereading a bit of tvt i got more comfortable in my vote
> right back at ya, @bruh moment: could you give me your negrek and tofu thoughts?


alright, tofu thoughts. we were pretty tunneled on this overNight, but while looking back over some of this stuff and discussing it more we're not quite as convinced as we were.  still, the vibes are decisively Not Good.

the main issue lies in her the inconsistency of her claim.  we're just having a really hard time figuring out how this can come from town—we spent a non-negligible amount of time trying to read this all in the best possible faith and it is still just, pretty baffling.  not impossible to understand, but it's certainly easier to assume she's just lying.

timeline goes something like this:

tofu makes her initial claim, completely unprompted, in 118.  at the time of this posting, the duplication power is specifically tofu's only action.  she also mentions that she gives out two badges upon dying, and occasionally refers to this as an 'action.'

we think the early claim is sorta towny on its own, but not, like, especially so.  and we're very much of the opinion that whatever town points it did win her were cancelled out and then some by this post, where she points to it as evidence of her own towniness.  imo "if i'm mafia, why do i do THIS, huh!?" rarely feels good—very LAMIST vibes and i think these thoughts occur to wolves more often than town.

she goes on to reiterate very specifically that she does not have two abilities here—she's making it very clear that she has a duplicator ability, and the badges that she gives out when she dies.

next she makes this post, where she goes into fairly excruciating detail about the exact mechanics of her duplication power.  we find it pretty hard to reconcile this level of detail with the fact that she seemingly completely misinterpreted/"didn't look at" her role pm, as she claims to have done later. (also of note is that here, after her initial claim, she adds the vivillon flavor to her badge distribution mechanic; it seems that no one else has their badge distribution flavored in this way?) note that at this point there is no mention at any point of colorful scatter, or a second ability of any kind, and several very unambiguous statements that seem to contradict the presence of an additional ability, reiterated in her next post here.

colorful scatter springs into being for the first time in this post.  it's still unclear to us how, exactly, to interpret what the state of her claim was at this point.  before this, she referred to the two badges that she distributes on death (separate from colorful scatter) as an "action"—her verbiage here (specifically the use of the word "other" in response to rnp referring to "neither" of her abilities requiring badges) suggests to me that she has two abilities at this point, with the two badge distribution included in that number.  at this point, it seems like she thinks that colorful scatter is just a name for the two badges she gives out on death, which is a bit weird, but more on that in a bit.

final post in the thrilling colorful scatter saga is this one, where she claims to have basically just like, failed to correctly interpret her role pm this entire time, and actually colorful scatter is a completely different thing (and coincidentally the exact same thing that blu guessed).  there is NO mention or even inkling of this power at any point before this post except for the name.  vital to note that this post is made as tofu is beginning to draw heat from basically everyone in the thread.

now, let's jump back to the post before this one, with the added context of colorful scatter's supposed power.  at this point she's in sort of a liminal state where she remembers colorful scatter existing at all, but doesn't seem to recall fully what it is.  it's a bit difficult for us to imagine this, given the detail she went into in her duplication power write-up.  additionally, if she has two discrete abilities as her final post suggests (duplication + colorful scatter) PLUS the normal badge distribution we all have, it's hard to imagine that she just completely failed to notice one of her two abilities (but still managed to catch the name?), to the point that she repeatedly made specific claims about only having the duplication power and the two badge distribution and nothing else.

no matter how you slice it, _something_ is seriously weird here.  it's honestly pretty difficult to explain this regardless of her alignment.  but we're coming out of it with a bad feeling, and for that reason, tofu is our top scumread at the moment.

another smaller thing, in reply to what you said about tofu seeming townily careful about her vote placement -


Spoiler: tofu talking about seshas/ultracool wagons






Tofu said:


> fwiw Ultracool's posts didn't really stand out to me as weird, but, it could just be because I am automatically more trusting because his watching ability (or whatever it is) was confirmed (in a sort of roundabout way because of the redirect) by both Blu and vm.





Tofu said:


> Zori's posts have confused me more than Ultracool's, and I feel more weird about Zori than UC at the moment. But I aint vote till tomorrow probably. [...]
> (also I kind of like that on the off chance Zori does drop 8 badges when killed, AND rnp isn't just trolling us, we could... activate his ability with the badges Zori drops, right (assuming they are sent to rnp)? Honestly this isn't a situation that even seems like it could realistically happen, but just sharing my train of thought)





Tofu said:


> I feel baaaad voting *Zori* because they believed my role claim and stuff, but I know yesterday I was thinking they stood out to me the most, and my other opinions haven't changed much overall. I might try to check in later before EOD and see if anything else has transpired, though.





i (mewtini) asked her about this in my longpost at EoD though i think that she didn't have time to reply before Night hit. what i've quoted here is, as far as i can tell, the totality of what she said about the two wagons ... and i would say that it's rather compatible with coasting onto an innowagon - no deep discussion or thought, despite being able to engage with finer details of ultracool's posting (as an aside, that engagement seemed fully NAI to me). nothing that's damning or scummy, but i don't think that this makes her any less likely to be wolf, and i also don't read her final vote as being especially deliberate - especially when no rationale beyond "she sounds off" was ever given.

_~ Bruh Moment, LLC_


----------



## rari_teh

bruh moment said:


> no matter how you slice it, _something_ is seriously weird here. it's honestly pretty difficult to explain this regardless of her alignment. but we're coming out of it with a bad feeling, and for that reason, tofu is our top scumread at the moment.


this was a very interesting analysis, bruh. i can’t say i’m fully swayed by it, but it definitely sounds off, especially because of the inconsistencies regarding how she remembers the details of her powers.

i’m looking forward to see tofu’s response and her reply to the question i made on my longpost. also looking forward to your negrekthoughts

thanks, bruh


----------



## bruh moment

holy FUCK that was long
uhhh. neg talk prooobably tomorrow tbh, writing tofu stuff drained us
-m


----------



## qenya

rari_teh said:


> did anyone wake up today extremely weary? to the point of barely being able to move a muscle?


...irl, yes


----------



## qenya

JackPK said:


> Ysabel said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> JackPK said:
> 
> 
> 
> Hmmm, my night action got an interesting result on several counts.
> 
> So for context, my free night action targets two players (it is not Bus Driver or similar, but I'll refrain on claiming exactly what it is unless it comes down to a fullclaim situation). Last night I targeted RNP and Hydreigon.
> 
> I got my normal expected result, plus the "RNP is mafia" result that RNP told us about, plus this:
> 
> "and furthermore, hmmmadksfhjajkfakdfbasdkhjazzzzzzzzzzt"
> 
> And then it told me I cannot take actions until the night after next.
> 
> 
> 
> Why did you target RNP and Hydre specifically?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> RNP because we had previously agreed I would target him in order to check his claim that he broadcasts miller
> 
> I didn't want the other target to be someone that seemed likely to be cop/doc/other Important Roles just in case RNP was lying mafia and actually had some sort of role that might somehow bounce off me and hit the other target. I also didn't want the other target to be someone that was likely to be targeted by a bunch of other actions, to reduce the likelihood that those other actions might be something that could somehow screw up my action and make me unable to get RNP's broadcast and thereby check his claim. Hydreigon seemed an appropriate pick for those criteria IMO.
Click to expand...

admit it. you're a neighbouriser and thought it would be hilarious to set up a chat between them


----------



## rari_teh

hey koko. could you give some thoughts regarding tofu?


----------



## qenya

OK, I'm all caught up! And the temperature is down to a relatively chilly 22 degrees, so hopefully I will be a little less braindead than I was yesterday. (It's possible, at least.)

I gotta say, I was astonished by both Seshas' and Herbe's flips. I was assuming that if Seshas was 3p at all she was an activated alien, and when I reread overnight I came round to the view of scumleaning Herbe (because his ISO mostly consisted of joke-FoSes, on me and others). So that was a surprise. I'm almost at the point of wondering if there's an ingroup at all, though maybe it's a bit premature to be thinking about that.

Nothing much to say on the nightkills that hasn't already been said. I subscribe to the hypothesis that Herbe was the alien and was offed by he mafia, and it's entirely plausible that someone would have vigged Hydreigon. It occurs to me that if we're correct in those assumptions and about what Hydrei's role was, the vig has been paralysed and will be unable to make a kill tonight. Plan accordingly.

Very impressed by rari's effortpost on Negrek. On rereading I was thinking some of the same things about her quizzing RNP about his role, so it's good to see that I wasn't just being paranoid. I don't agree that being pro-abstention is necessarily a scumtell for Negrek (though it's true that she would _know _she was in a position to propose abstention without people considering it a scumtell), but everything else makes sense to me.

On the topic of RNP, my assumption was that his role required him to post the trigger phrase and explain what it meant in the same post... which he did, here, while also making it seem as though he wasn't. I thought that was pretty slick, which is why I put him at the top of my townpile yesterday. Moderately disappointed to find out that he was just bullshitting, but at least it helped gauge reactions.

I'm... oscillating about Tofu. Ask me again later.

@Mr. Ultracool , what was your result last night, if you can safely share it?

@bruh moment , you said earlier that you were going to try to formulate some thoughts on Mawile, what did you come up with?


----------



## qenya

rari_teh said:


> hey koko. could you give some thoughts regarding tofu?


oops, ninja'd, sorry! see above ^


----------



## Mr. Ultracool

Vipera Magnifica said:


> @Mr. Ultracool who did you watch last night?


I think I meowde somewhat of a meowstake last night  Apparently, the Mafia didn't visit me-owfter all...


----------



## Mr. Ultracool

JackPK said:


> if I'm remembering the gym leaders correctly without looking them up, there are no fighting, fire, or rock gym leaders in the game, much less still alive


Meowbe their signature Pokémeown have Double Types?


----------



## qenya

Mr. Ultracool said:


> Vipera Magnifica said:
> 
> 
> 
> @Mr. Ultracool who did you watch last night?
> 
> 
> 
> I think I meowde somewhat of a meowstake last night  Apparently, the Mafia didn't visit me-owfter all...
Click to expand...

Oh. Right. I forgot you were planning to do that.

Well, uh, shit happens, I guess... don't feel bad about it, just keep it in mind for next time you're in a similar situation!


----------



## qenya

kokorico said:


> Seshas


er, *Zori. sorry.


----------



## Zero Moment

Okay, I have some thoughts on what happened last Night, some likely and unlikely scenarios of what went down. First is that both kills were made by the Mafia. I find this unlikely, unless there's some restriction shenanigans like only being able to kill every other night but they have two kills. Next up is either 1 Mafia 1 Vig or 1 Mafia 1 Serial Killer. This one is strange to figure out, since we already had Zori claim vig, but they were 3p. Does that make her an SK equivalent? Is there a town-aligned vig? I can buy an SK attack, since I'm aware of several 3p killing roles with time-restricted kills. However, I have a third scenario, where Herbe himself was not actually targeted for death. Now, Zori claimed to have a drawback passive, and I'd bet that Herbe did too. Y'see, Neigborizers, Masons, and Cultists—and there's no way to know which Herbe actually was—all tend to have the downside of dying when they try to recruit Mafia members.  For reasons I'll likely get into tomorrow, I think _this_ is what killed Herbe, and then Hydrei prob just took the scumkill.


----------



## Vipera Magnifica

Random Tofu thoughts: Tofu has never played a Gen 6 or 7 game and would not know what Vivillion’s moves are from memory. If she had to look up moves for a fakeclaim, I _highly doubt_ she would make up “Colorful Scatter” as an ability since this would seem to her like an obvious scumtell. Based on my understanding of her as town, there isn’t really anything she has done so far that she wouldn’t do as town, and the more I think about it the more I have to townlean her. I’m only holding back from full-on townreading her because of her alien play in Push the Button.



Mr. Ultracool said:


> Vipera Magnifica said:
> 
> 
> 
> @Mr. Ultracool who did you watch last night?
> 
> 
> 
> I think I meowde somewhat of a meowstake last night  Apparently, the Mafia didn't visit me-owfter all...
Click to expand...

aaand I am back to SRing Ultracool. If doesn’t make sense to me that he would go on with his “plan” to watch himself after we pointed out the many problems with that plan, and he never confirmed how he would use some way to distribute the badges to implicate the mafia if he did go through with it. So even if he _did_ get killed by the mafia (which is assuming they wouldn’t just kill someone else because ???) then his death would have likely been in vain. I feel like UC would know better than to play like that as town.


----------



## Vipera Magnifica

I was fully prepared to start a Negrek wagon if Zori flipped mafia, but why make a whole scene about wanting to abstain and not just vote Zori if they weren't aligned together? Unless Negrek knew that Zori was inevitably going to be yeeted and wanted to seem against it for towncred.

Also wow, this has been like... 4? 5? games in a row where Seshas doesn't make it past D1


----------



## Vipera Magnifica

I have a plan of action I want to suggest but I'd prefer to let more of the day naturally unfold before doing so


----------



## Mr. Ultracool

Vipera Magnifica said:


> If doesn’t make sense to me that he would go on with his “plan” to watch himself after we pointed out the many problems with that plan, a


Well, I tought that it was someowhat of a WIFOM-meowment - it would be better if I hadn't watched meowself rather than someown else - thus making that the best course of action and the one the Meowfia would expect, meowking it better for them to kill an inforole like me 


Vipera Magnifica said:


> and he never confirmed how he would use some way to distribute the badges to implicate the mafia if he did go through with it.


I did - I wanted to use the list of playernameows on Page meowone, giving it to the person beneath the Mafia Meowmber...


----------



## Tofu

rari_teh said:


> Tofu said:
> 
> 
> 
> So far I'm guessing the badges can only be distributed on someone's death? I kind of doubt there would be an action where it's just like "give a badge to someone once" because that would be a waste of an ability space?
> 
> 
> 
> @Tofu could you clarify what you meant by “that would be a waste of an ability space” considering that according to this later post:
> 
> 
> Tofu said:
> 
> 
> 
> Neither of my abilities cost badges, and my Vivillon's "move" is to give my two bug badges after I die, so it isn't really an ability.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> you were assuming that your second ability was simply giving your two badges upon death?
Click to expand...

That first part you quoted, I was referring to an ability where someone has an ability to target someone and give them a badge. Not something they collected from someone else or whatever, but like, give one single badge to a player of your choice, because I was guessing that the badge mechanic itself was only triggered by someone dying, rather than there being a badge-distributor role. Obviously, this was based on my own role (that I incorrectly interpreted the first time, but either way, it was still that I had to die to give out any badges). I'm not sure at the moment whether I still believe that mechanic applies to everyone, though, because it sounds inefficient and less fun, especially with people with roles that cost multiple badges to use.

Yeah so, about the confusion over my role: I thought I clarified it in the below post but I didn't want to post about it a bunch of times because 1) it made me look inconsistent and I'm trying to live until I can use my one good ability with more confidence and 2) sometimes me talking too much makes me look more guilty because I type a lot.

Also, a thing I just thought of that no one mentioned; early on I asked for people not to give me their badges, because I don't have any abilities that cost badges. So, if I were hiding a second ability, it would probably cost badges to use, since my first one doesn't (just seeing the pattern here, again, that some people have a free and a cost ability). So, why would I tell people not to give me anything?

Okay, my role pm, which I know I can't copy-paste here, is formatted with my copycat role first. Then, the line under it, it lists the colorful scatter role where I redistribute any badges I have collected so far. The line under it is the separate "badge feature" one where it says when I die, I can distribute two. After I posted about my copycat role, I hadn't reopened the role pm to double check it before I commented on my secondary role to redistribute things after I died, and honestly I just combined it in my brain because I initially skimmed it because I didn't really understand the badge mechanic, it said it triggered automatically when I died, I didn't have anything that cost badges, and didn't start out with any badges, so I got confused/didn't really care about that second ability because it wasn't as fun and I couldn't manually trigger it. Like, because of me misreading my role, I didn't even realize people HAD two abilities at all, and thought it perfectly normal mine was like that. I know it can be made to not look great but that's my real explanation at this point. (I honestly did realize it before Blu posted, because I went back to look, and vm def heard me say "oh shit" sitting at the table next to him when I realized I messed up, but I didn't say anything because we are ~not talking about mafia~ and that just burdens him with trying to defend me, which is dumb). I was toiling over whether I should post more and draw even more attention to it, or be petrified in silence and hope people forget about it, when Blu posted the below (also thanks, for real, but idk if it helped either of us lol). I didn't want it to become a thing people talked about, like, I die early in the game because people have no idea who to vote for and go on tone reads and inconsistencies).

That last sentence also explains my Zori vote. Like, really what stood out to me was partially the badge claim (I didn't think it'd be fair to have a costly vig and because I didn't have roles that cost badges, I wasn't really sure that was feasible? Again just sort of subtle reads) and I found it a little odd saying they dropped 8 badges when they die (as a joke, and then went back on it, but still, idk, weird vibe). I know they are minor things but seriously, I don't think anyone else had much more to go on, I mean, it was D1, and once other people started voting Zori and explaining why, it sort of reaffirmed my light suspicions and ey, that's'a mafia.

(keeping my initial response to Blu here in case people want to look again)



Spoiler: Push The Button






Tofu said:


> Bluwiikoon said:
> 
> 
> 
> Oh, wait!
> 
> 
> Tofu said:
> 
> 
> 
> Idk it just said "colorful scatter" was the move and I give away my badges through it. It made sense to me when I read it because it was like, I dead but my Pokemon isn't, so it helped me out? Maybe it's just to balance the power of my other role by making my Pokemon's role not really do anything, idk M&F's mind.
> 
> 
> 
> Are you saying you can redistribute extra badges that you've received from other people?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Um, wow, yes, I was just trying to come up with a way to say this in a way that didn't make me sound ridiculous. I didn't look at my PM when I was typing that post and, um, I can just say woops and beg for forgiveness.
> 
> Okay, the colorful scatter thing is this: I can distribute any badges I have acquired, after I die, to any combination of people I want.
> 
> In addition, my death ones are to distribute two bug badges to anyone I choose.
> 
> But yeah, for the colorful scatter to happen, I have to be dead, and it doesn't cost anything to activate.
Click to expand...


----------



## Tofu

I hope that post can cover both bruh and rari's questions? Ask if you have more but I'm going to go touch bees. Honestly kind of tired of rehashing this though tbh.


----------



## RedneckPhoenix

perish


----------



## RedneckPhoenix

myuma where are you

react to this post if yr role doesn't let you speak


----------



## RedneckPhoenix

anyways: tofu i respect and cherish you as part of this community but you are lying out of your ass blatantly rn 

the reason i told bluwii not to give you a credible claim was bc that's an easy way out for ya. "oh shit i fucked up reading my role and it's exactly that thing you said, oops,"


there's a lot of possibilities in my mind of varying tinfoilness

*tofu is yet another tp whose only objective is to die or is the real activated alien
*tofu is still a tp who has no abilities and has to blend in with the crowd and survive
*tofu is mafia and mafia have role pm's structured unlike town role pm's
*tofu is literally just that much of a dumbass who thought the two different "give badges" functions were just the same thing
*there actually is no mafia and all the scum are tp's?
*tofu is roleblocked by obtaining badges
*more conspiracy theories to come when the room stops spinning


----------



## Tofu

It's counterproductive of me to keep going over the fact that I misread something. I fucked up and if that means people decide to yeet me, then whatever; that's how this game goes sometimes, but again, since I don't have concrete reads on other people, since two self-aligned players have died and one town (who was, imo, very obviously town), I assume other people don't exactly either, so it would be a natural choice to look at me since, like I said, I fucked up. I'm 1000% over it and don't have anything else to say. At this point I'll just wait for someone else to say something weird and hopefully people move on from me before EOD. /wifom

I thought of copying vm's ability and using it on myself next night phase, if that's possible, to protect me from vigging (or mafia, if they care), but that would be a panic move and wasting something otherwise useful, and won't keep me from a yeet toDay, obviously.

On another note, I've been kind of quietly watching UC and wondering why he wants (meowfia specifically) to kill him? I'm guessing he may have a useful role triggered by him dying (or someone visiting him like in Tarot mafia). I also remember that, last night phase, he was supposed to watch me, but, if that happened, I didn't get any sort of notification (not that I would, really), so he either watched himself, or someone else. Ftr I do believe he has a watching ability based on the events of the first night phase/the discussion afterwards, but could have a second ability triggered by death or visitation, in addition to distributing his one death badge.

I hesitate to straight up vote for UC yet for the reason that, if they are outgroup mafia, a kitty yeet could trigger an ability that would help meowfia. I know that's bastardy but it doesn't seem out of place based on some of the other roles so far. Just my theory though. Would like thoughts on why kitty wants to die.


----------



## Ys_

Ok so.. I reread some things yesterday and I'm more confident about VM as town.

Also what does neighbourizer mean/do? Is it similar to a cult?

As for Tofu. I agree some of those things rari and bm quoted seem fishy but it also doesn't seem like anything mafia would do? Seems like a lot of it would actually be against mafia's interests. Maybe a cop could check her to make sure though


----------



## Mr. Ultracool

Tofu said:


> I'm guessing he may have a useful role triggered by him dying (or someone visiting him like in Tarot mafia).


Meow, that would be telling 
I'd meowjorly prefer to keep my abilities beyond the first a secret


----------



## JackPK

I think I'm more inclined to be suspicious of Negrek than Tofu today, but I want to wait until Negrek comes in and replies (or spends a suspiciously long amount of time not replying...?) before I place my vote.

I want to outline the thinking I've been doing overnight on the matter, but I'm too lazy to go back and pull quote citations so sorry for the unbroken wall of text:

I liked rari's thoughts about Negrek a lot; I think they made sense and felt plausible and solvey. Springboarding off that, I tried to process-of-elimination some alternate worlds for the RNP/Negrek interactions. these are the worlds I think are plausible:

w Negrek/v RNP feels like it makes the most sense to me. making up an implausible bullshit claim to try to catch someone is tbh very in character for RNP's villager game (I don't think I've seen his scum game, or if I have I don't remember it, but I feel like I gutread RNP as being too impulsive to be able to believably channel his villager game as scum). Negrek's pushing on that claim not in a skeptical way but in a curious way feels more scum than villager to me, but not necessarily automatically scum
v Negrek/v RNP where Negrek is just overcurious feels like the next most likely world. it's not great play but it's believable
and these are the worlds I don't think are plausible:

v Negrek/w RNP requires both overcurious!Negrek and scum-believably-channeling-his-villager-game!RNP and I think both of those things are unlikely, so I think it's especially unlikely that they overlap. in a v Negrek/w RNP scenario I think I would also expect RNP to immediately and aggressively jump on Negrek's questions to paint them as suspicious instead of just softing it with a "bullshit" acronym
w Negrek/w RNP is not possible in my mind because this is just a dumb thing to do as wolf theater? if it were wolf theater, I think they could/should have predicted there is no way neither of them comes off looking bad from it. on the other hand this leads me to a wifom situation like "what if they orchestrated that to make RNP look townier?" but on the other other hand that would also be dumb to do as wolf theater honestly
so long story short I think I'm kind of reading their interaction as more town-indicative of RNP than anything-indicative of Negrek, but I do still read Negrek somewhat more likely to be scum than villager

as for Tofu, I'm sorry if this is bringing out-of-game considerations into the matter that shouldn't be brought in, but my automatic gutread in any VM/Tofu game is that, since they live together IRL, they would have subliminally noticed things IRL to suspect each other if they were anti-aligned and that would factor into their reads of each other in the thread (even if they don't consciously intend it). since that doesn't feel like it's happening, I feel like they are aligned, and I am moderately strongly townreading VM so that leads me to townread Tofu as well


----------



## bruh moment

kokorico said:


> I'm almost at the point of wondering if there's an ingroup at all, though maybe it's a bit premature to be thinking about that.


... why?
we haven't had any outgroup flips


kokorico said:


> @bruh moment , you said earlier that you were going to try to formulate some thoughts on Mawile, what did you come up with?


lol we ended up at null. i was TLing him for the hydreigon pressure vote (as i think i posted) but felt mildly bad/coasty vibes elsewhere, and then on reread/discussion w skylar, realized that the first thing was NAI and the second was probably paranoia


Mr. Ultracool said:


> Vipera Magnifica said:
> 
> 
> 
> @Mr. Ultracool who did you watch last night?
> 
> 
> 
> I think I meowde somewhat of a meowstake last night  Apparently, the Mafia didn't visit me-owfter all...
Click to expand...

[surprised pikachu face]
anyway. i still disagree that this is +w points (i'd say null, personally) even if it is frustrating. what _reason_ does mafia have to go through with this - koko said this earlier, but what pro-wolf outcome comes about if he lucks out, pigs fly, and his plan somehow 'works'? versus a pro-town outcome. it's misguided but i still struggle to see a reason to SR it aside from "it doesn't make objective sense," but like, that isn't an inherently scummy thing in this context imo


Vipera Magnifica said:


> If she had to look up moves for a fakeclaim, I _highly doubt_ she would make up “Colorful Scatter” as an ability since this would seem to her like an obvious scumtell.


well ... we aren't really saying 'colorful scatter' doesn't exist. we also think it's perfectly plausible that her duplicator role DOES exist. it doesn't make the flow of the claim work any better; there's still some moment where she contradicted herself. we don't think that there's a way for it to have happened like that without an overt lie somewhere in there


Ysabel said:


> Also what does neighbourizer mean/do? Is it similar to a cult?


lets you open a PM with someone in the game


Ysabel said:


> As for Tofu. I agree some of those things rari and bm quoted seem fishy but it also doesn't seem like anything mafia would do? Seems like a lot of it would actually be against mafia's interests. Maybe a cop could check her to make sure though


why wouldn't it seem like something mafia would do tbh
and in particular, why does doubling back on the claim would it seem like something /town/ would ever do?

-m


----------



## bruh moment

JackPK said:


> as for Tofu, I'm sorry if this is bringing out-of-game considerations into the matter that shouldn't be brought in, but my automatic gutread in any VM/Tofu game is that, since they live together IRL, they would have subliminally noticed things IRL to suspect each other if they were anti-aligned and that would factor into their reads of each other in the thread (even if they don't consciously intend it). since that doesn't feel like it's happening, I feel like they are aligned, and I am moderately strongly townreading VM so that leads me to townread Tofu as well





Tofu said:


> I honestly did realize it before Blu posted, because I went back to look, and vm def heard me say "oh shit" sitting at the table next to him when I realized I messed up, but I didn't say anything because we are ~not talking about mafia~ and that just burdens him with trying to defend me, which is dumb


brief aside, but can we please avoid making IRL-based reads or comments like this, it really just isn't fair/productive and it doesn't. help. we already saw how it worked out in endgame cats :| the firsthand IRL reads are already uncomfortable and not in the spirit of the game, going another layer beyond that to "well, since they're together in-person, they would probably ..." is even more untenable. 

especially side-eyeing tofu for saying that she didn’t mention it to him before because she knew better, only to bring it up now for no clear reason other than for cred.


----------



## Negrek

I honestly don't feel like I want to spend my weekend arguing about this, so I'm going to dip. gl Town


----------



## bruh moment

Negrek said:


> I honestly don't feel like I want to spend my weekend arguing about this, so I'm going to dip. gl Town


 man, i feel you... sorry to hear that though. would you feel comfortable claiming before you go?
-q


----------



## haneko

RedneckPhoenix said:


> myuma where are you


Here. Did you want to ask me anything?

@JackPK :

according to MF, "the character limit is my patience". Plus, I seem to have misunderstood my role PM; my non-badge ability only works on living players. The idea is they set a message _before_ they get yeeted or otherwise offed. The above also explains the lack of messages in previous modposts. Sorry for the confusion.

Ok, thoughts on the kills + recent events.
- I'm not sure if we should be extrapolating that leaders of a certain type were responsible for the kills just based on flavour text. This especially goes for how Herbe/Cilan was beaten up; it seems like a fairly generic attack to me.
- That being said, the flavour text for Hydreigon/Volkner does seem significant. I don't have any specific thoughts on it for now, but it feels like something to look into.
- Could this be a town vs indeps game? Two of the dead are 3rd party, and the other is town. I also think it would make sense of the relatively strange behaviour from experienced players like Zori.
- On second thoughts, the existence of RNP's role suggests otherwise.
- I still think the Colorful Scatter scandal with Tofu is not something to get too worried about? To me it seems fairly believable that she had trouble articulating how the ability worked.
- Negrek thoughts: I can see why it comes across as a mafiosi trying to get information out of someone, but right now I'm willing to give them the benefit of the doubt, seeing as they have a different playstyle to most players here. I'm going to see how they respond to rari's post before deciding if they're suspicious enough to vote for.


----------



## bruh moment

ミ☆ ᴍyᴜᴍᴀ said:


> Could this be a town vs indeps game? Two of the dead are 3rd party, and the other is town. I also think it would make sense of the relatively strange behaviour from experienced players like Zori.









real answer:
um, no? because town wincon confirms there's mafia? 
-m


----------



## bruh moment

ミ☆ ᴍyᴜᴍᴀ said:


> On second thoughts, the existence of RNP's role suggests otherwise.


also rnp's role ended up being fake tbh tbh

negrek thoughts coming eventually i guess
-m


----------



## haneko

Oh yeah. Where did he admit it was fake? Not doubting that it happened, I just want to go and see the post.


----------



## bruh moment

ミ☆ ᴍyᴜᴍᴀ said:


> Oh yeah. Where did he admit it was fake? Not doubting that it happened, I just want to go and see the post.





RedneckPhoenix said:


> gonna come out and say it now
> 
> i was totally bullshitting yall with my obscenely-overpowered role


also, negrek did end up posting a few minutes before you. where does that leave your stance on her?
-m


----------



## bruh moment

also @ミ☆ ᴍyᴜᴍᴀ i forgot - what experience do you have with mafia?
-m


----------



## Ys_

bruh moment said:


> why wouldn't it seem like something mafia would do tbh
> and in particular, why does doubling back on the claim would it seem like something /town/ would ever do?


Well I was thinking about not asking for badges and the early claim. The way I see it is it's risky. Like RNP's supermiller claim, or because someone could cc her. And mafia would be at least somewhat interested in getting badges and/or not letting town get them. It's more similar to Zori's play if you ask me, except without the asking for badges. Also I think you misinterpreted me. I didn't mean that it was something town would do, just that a mafia playing the way she has been could potentially be a risk to their own team.


----------



## bruh moment

Ysabel said:


> Well I was thinking about not asking for badges and the early claim. The way I see it is it's risky. Like RNP's supermiller claim, or because someone could cc her.


 not if she really has the duplicator power, which she easily could even as mafia. i’m not sure this really means anything, and the fact that she later pointed to it as evidence of her own towniness when backed into a corner reveals a potential motivation for her to claim early as wolf.
-q


----------



## haneko

bruh moment said:


> also, negrek did end up posting a few minutes before you. where does that leave your stance on her?
> -m





bruh moment said:


> also @ミ☆ ᴍyᴜᴍᴀ i forgot - what experience do you have with mafia?
> -m


Ignoring the accusation that she's mafia doesn't look great to me, though I think there is genuine frustration in that post. Chances are I'll vote for her at the end of the day if a better candidate doesn't appear; I may reconsider Tofu if I can be bothered to look at all the evidence again.

This is my third mafia game ever, I think. ^^ I didn't last very long in my previous one (Cats).


----------



## bruh moment

Ysabel said:


> Well I was thinking about not asking for badges and the early claim. The way I see it is it's risky. Like RNP's supermiller claim, or because someone could cc her.


first thing (about the cc) - said this earlier, but we aren't doubting that her role isn't in part real; duplicator makes fine enough sense for mafia to have. in re: the early claim, we talked about this in our other post;


bruh moment said:


> we think the early claim is sorta towny on its own, but not, like, especially so. and we're very much of the opinion that whatever town points it did win her were cancelled out and then some by this post, where she points to it as evidence of her own towniness. imo "if i'm mafia, why do i do THIS, huh!?" rarely feels good—very LAMIST vibes and i think these thoughts occur to wolves more often than town.


i also would argue that her comments about the badges are like ... NAI? fwiw the early claim/badgestance are clearly working, and i think it's plausible for scum to say "don't give me badges" if it a) isn't something they need, b) makes them look towny, or c) both. 

sorry if i'm being curt, but i'm honestly getting sort of frustrated because i feel like people aren't really engaging with what we've posted and instead keep glossing over it
-m


----------



## bruh moment

bruh moment said:


> isn't in part real


*is in part


----------



## bruh moment

ninja'd by myself.


----------



## bruh moment

please elaborate on your think react tbh, very curious where the perceived contradiction is in the fact that if tofu is mafia she’s probably still a duplicator, meaning she did not run the risk of being cc’d
-q


----------



## qenya

bruh moment said:


> kokorico said:
> 
> 
> 
> I'm almost at the point of wondering if there's an ingroup at all, though maybe it's a bit premature to be thinking about that.
> 
> 
> 
> ... why?
> we haven't had any outgroup flips
Click to expand...

Sorry, "ingroup" was not quite the right word. What I meant is "coherent mafia faction", i.e., basically the the same thing as myuma just suggested, that there's just the town and a whole load of third parties. Like I said, though, I don't think I'm necessarily at the point of really believing this, it's just speculation for now.

I'm not, however, convinced by this:


bruh moment said:


> um, no? because town wincon confirms there's mafia?
> -m


What about the town wincon do you think confirms the existence of a mafia faction? Because I'm looking at it now, and I'm not seeing it at all. I suppose it's just about possible that Mampers phrased different people's wincons differently, but that would be an exceptional level of bastardry.

----
(Currently preparing thoughtposts on the nightkills and Tofu.)


----------



## bruh moment

kokorico said:


> What about the town wincon do you think confirms the existence of a mafia faction? Because I'm looking at it now, and I'm not seeing it at all. I suppose it's just about possible that Mampers phrased different people's wincons differently, but that would be an exceptional level of bastardry.


the part that says we win when all scum are dead? scum does mean “independents,” it means mafia. in a town vs independent setup it would likely say “opposing factions” or something instead. idk why we have to question the very basic foundation and semantics of the game every time for no reason tbh. 
-q


----------



## bruh moment

bruh moment said:


> scum **doesn't* mean “independents,”


----------



## qenya

bruh moment said:


> kokorico said:
> 
> 
> 
> What about the town wincon do you think confirms the existence of a mafia faction? Because I'm looking at it now, and I'm not seeing it at all. I suppose it's just about possible that Mampers phrased different people's wincons differently, but that would be an exceptional level of bastardry.
> 
> 
> 
> the part that says we win when all scum are dead? scum does mean “independents,” it means mafia. in a town vs independent setup it would likely say “opposing factions” or something instead. idk why we have to question the very basic foundation and semantics of the game every time for no reason tbh.
> -q
Click to expand...

Oh, good, it does actually say the same thing for you. thank god. big TL on you for that.

I don't agree at all about your interpretation, though; IME "scum" is just a synonym for "anti-town" (example), which usually just means the mafia but could also include third-party roles that don't win with town. I don't really understand why this is a point of contention.

To be crystal clear, again, I'm not at the point of actively believing "no mafia faction" to be the case just yet - I'm just a bit raised-eyebrows about 2/3 of our flips so far being 3p, and I'm not aware of any information that explicitly contradicts it.


----------



## Negrek

Okay, sorry. I don't know if I'll be able to return to actually play later, but obviously I can't stop thinking about this and at least I can clear up one thing. I killed Herbe last night, using Alakazam's psyshock. I don't think you should be too literal about flavor. Best guess with Hydreigon is the mafia wanted a kill that would say basically nothing, or they did in fact believe he was a roleblocker, or maybe it's yet another 3p with some kind of kill related wincon who saw an easy target that wouldn't be worth much information.

Also.



bruh moment said:


> ミ☆ ᴍyᴜᴍᴀ said:
> 
> 
> 
> Could this be a town vs indeps game? Two of the dead are 3rd party, and the other is town. I also think it would make sense of the relatively strange behaviour from experienced players like Zori.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> real answer:
> um, no? because town wincon confirms there's mafia?
> -m
Click to expand...

No... it... doesn't? It doesn't reference the presence of a mafia at all. Unless I'm misunderstanding a term definition. I don't know if I feel like ~four mafia and two 3p (or maybe three and three or something) feels more likely to me than oops all third party. A second kill last night makes me lean more towards some number of mafia a bit, but again, it's also possible there's one or more other 3p with some kind of conditional kill ability, as Zori apparently was, who managed to get a shot off instead.

Ugh. Apologies. I'll be back in a few hours if I feel better about things.


----------



## bruh moment

kokorico said:


> I don't agree at all about your interpretation, though; IME "scum" is just a synonym for "anti-town" (example), which usually just means the mafia but could also include third-party roles that don't win with town. I don't really understand why this is a point of contention.


what experience are you referring to? afaict this has never been the case here, yet it still gets brought up every time. only tvt was confusing at all about this and butterfree herself said it was a flaw of the game. scum = mafia, third party (clearly) = third party since they’re flipping as third party and not scum.
-q


----------



## bruh moment

Negrek said:


> I don't know if I feel like ~four mafia and two 3p (or maybe three and three or something) feels more likely to me than oops all third party.


in prior MFia games, mafia wincon was reaching parity with /all other living players/, which feels compatible enough with there being multiple 3ps. i also don't really know why it's unthinkable that seshas and herbe just got unlucky tbh, and weighing that against the case that there's never even been a weird multiball game on this site is like :/ besides, seshas/herbe didn't just flip 'inno,' they flipped fully third-party and not "scum" which is what i'd assume the flip for mafia (as in, the mafia central to town wincon) would look like.

:| i think this is a distraction from scumhunting at this point
-m


----------



## bruh moment

bruh moment said:


> there's never even been a weird multiball game on this site is like :/


well
a Surprise multiball that is [afaik]
-m


----------



## bruh moment

Negrek said:


> No... it... doesn't? It doesn't reference the presence of a mafia at all.


 it does. we’re talking about it in the last couple posts here, but “you win when all scum players are dead” suggests pretty unambiguously to me that there are players aligned with scum (not self-aligned) that we must eliminate.
-q


----------



## qenya

bruh moment said:


> what experience are you referring to? afaict this has never been the case here, yet it still gets brought up every time. only tvt was confusing at all about this and butterfree herself said it was a flaw of the game. scum = mafia, third party (clearly) = third party since they’re flipping as third party and not scum.


Pre-TCoD experience, but I don't think there's been a post-revival TCoD game where it would have been applicable. The only time the word "scum" has been included in mechanics/modposts, if I recall correctly, was in Cats (2019), which had no third parties at all.

The confusion in TVT was to do with outgroup mafia, not third parties.



bruh moment said:


> :| i think this is a distraction from scumhunting at this point


Agree on this, though, whichever definition of "scum" you're using.


----------



## Negrek

Ugh again, I should mention that I'm a JOAT, not a vigilante, and that's why Zori's claim didn't seem immediately improbable to me, before anyone brings that up. But now I really am putting the laptop away.


----------



## bruh moment

i can tell you without a shadow of a doubt that mf would not use “scum” to refer to 3p here, and if she did, then herbe and zori would have flipped as scum. otherwise our role pms are misleading about our win condition, besides flips that count toward it aren’t obviously designated as such.

this is unproductive at best and misleading at worst, so i’ll leave it there, but i’m really not going to be taking any spec about “what if actually no mafia!? :000” seriously and i’m going to be side-eyeing anyone that does.
-q


----------



## haneko

I probably suggested that because my very first mafia game was a bastard one where every single player was self-aligned.
@bruh moment The thinking emoji is because I found your post very plausible and I'm currently reconsidering my stance on Tofu. Maybe I'm using reacts wrong.


Anyway, that's enough mafia for now. I'll return nearer the end of toDay.


----------



## bruh moment

rari_teh said:


> after rereading a bit of tvt i got more comfortable in my vote
> right back at ya, @bruh moment: could you give me your negrek and tofu thoughts?


so the reason we've been struggling so much to reply about negrek (aside from getting distracted by trying to respond to tofu/other discourse) is that (before the very recent posting) we ... had her exactly at null? i (mewt) haven't played with her beyond tvt, where neg's presence was overall different - she wasn't really in the thick of things, and a lot of her appearances centered around giving out role results - but we both think that it's like ... behavior pretty consistent with old meta, where claiming was done more openly and there was more importance given to understanding role mechanics as they were claimed.

in particular we read the interaction with rnp like, significantly differently from how you did - he'd already given up on using his "role," and he'd already claimed that mafia would be notified when he used it. (fwiw, negrek asking for clarification here mindmelded with us; we were like ??? that he claimed they'd be notified since he didn't mention it in the original claim.) so ... what new information did negrek pull out that would've hurt town and helped mafia? the way we read it it was like, kind of apparent that she was asking from the pov of someone who's used to having/handling mech info, and we thought she was searching for ways to make his role useful (and, to reiterate, he'd written it off as a lost cause). i'd even argue that its town rationale is exactly equivalent to what you said was _anti-_town about it at EoD; figuring out if rnp had the ability to fake mafia out was crucial to figuring out if the role had any utility left, *especially* when he'd literally used the phrase inthread already during his claim.

although i would also ordinarily be a little worried about rolefishing, i also think it's pretty important to consider that - if negrek is a) mafia and b) conscious of how her posts would come off (and i'm inclined to think so, because she's an experienced player) - then what you've presented would be tantamount to like ... pretty unnecessary/unprompted d1 openwolfing. do you think this world makes more sense than there being a fundamental difference in playstyles/attitudes?

in any case, i think that "asking for clarification on someone's unclear/weird role," from someone who we know has roots in old/more mech-focused and claim-casual meta, is a super far cry from "trying to drag info out of townies" when the most important stages (the roleclaim itself) had already happened in both tofu and rnp's cases.



Spoiler: some comments on your post itself ig






rari_teh said:


> when he spills it, this is what she says:
> 
> 
> 
> Huh, interesting. Thanks!
> 
> It's definitely an odd role, but not at all outside the realm of what I would expect from MF. If you're telling the truth about it, then yeah, I think bruh moment was right in that now the cat's out of the bag, it's unlikely we'll be able to take advantage of it. But it would be very powerful, and I wouldn't totally rule it out yet.
> 
> 
> 
> emphasis mine. i have no words.
Click to expand...

also i ... don't really know what you were trying to convey here to be honest, can you clarify?


rari_teh said:


> considering that herbe, a self-proclaimed 3p, was seemingly the mafia kill toNight, i have the impression that the mafia shot herbe n0 and w!negrek is pulling her hair over the then recently-started herbewagon


this already wasn't really damning/evidence-based imo, but in light of neg claiming to have killed herbe i also think that this actually is +v and checks out with her EoD behavior



-m


----------



## bruh moment

ミ☆ ᴍyᴜᴍᴀ said:


> @bruh moment The thinking emoji is because I found your post very plausible and I'm currently reconsidering my stance on Tofu. Maybe I'm using reacts wrong.


 ah, i see! nw, im just used to it being used facetiously. thanks for explaining. 
-q


----------



## Zero Moment

Negrek said:


> Okay, sorry. I don't know if I'll be able to return to actually play later, but obviously I can't stop thinking about this and at least I can clear up one thing. I killed Herbe last night, using Alakazam's psyshock. I don't think you should be too literal about flavor. Best guess with Hydreigon is the mafia wanted a kill that would say basically nothing, or they did in fact believe he was a roleblocker, or maybe it's yet another 3p with some kind of kill related wincon who saw an easy target that wouldn't be worth much information.


Oh. Hm. Well, there goes my theory.

@the discussion on Hydrei's flavor death: I think people are reading too much into the traps and such. I'm pretty sure that's indicating his role, which I assume was some passive trapper, given that Jack was paralyzed after visiting last night.


----------



## JackPK

Negrek said:


> Okay, sorry. I don't know if I'll be able to return to actually play later, but obviously I can't stop thinking about this and at least I can clear up one thing. I killed Herbe last night, using Alakazam's psyshock.





Negrek said:


> Ugh again, I should mention that I'm a JOAT, not a vigilante, and that's why Zori's claim didn't seem immediately improbable to me, before anyone brings that up. But now I really am putting the laptop away.


What made you decide to use your kill power when you did, and on whom you did?

Assuming you are telling the truth about being JOAT, I want to take this opportunity to head off any potential "overcurious" folks and say you probably should not share exactly what your other JOAT powers are besides the kill, and maybe not even how many you have overall, to avoid helping mafia to strategize.


----------



## bruh moment

JackPK said:


> What made you decide to use your kill power when you did, and on whom you did?


idk if she's here anymore considering what she last said, but i'm pretty sure it was rationalized here already


Negrek said:


> Hmm.
> 
> A little worried about activated alien. Maybe better to vig rather than lynch?
> 
> Of course, if Zori IS our only vig, that'd be problematic because they need badges and don't seem super likely to get them.


-m


----------



## JackPK

Zero Moment said:


> Negrek said:
> 
> 
> 
> Okay, sorry. I don't know if I'll be able to return to actually play later, but obviously I can't stop thinking about this and at least I can clear up one thing. I killed Herbe last night, using Alakazam's psyshock. I don't think you should be too literal about flavor. Best guess with Hydreigon is the mafia wanted a kill that would say basically nothing, or they did in fact believe he was a roleblocker, or maybe it's yet another 3p with some kind of kill related wincon who saw an easy target that wouldn't be worth much information.
> 
> 
> 
> Oh. Hm. Well, there goes my theory.
> 
> @the discussion on Hydrei's flavor death: I think people are reading too much into the traps and such. I'm pretty sure that's indicating his role, which I assume was some passive trapper, given that Jack was paralyzed after visiting last night.
Click to expand...

The good news is, if this is the case, whichever mafioso executed the kill is presumably paralyzed too? Of course, that means nothing if MF is following the "any mafioso can send in the kill" paradigm rather than the "chain of command" paradigm

Still maybe worth keeping in mind just in case there's no kill tomorrow, though


----------



## Vipera Magnifica

Tofu said:


> I thought of copying vm's ability and using it on myself next night phase, if that's possible, to protect me from vigging (or mafia, if they care), but that would be a panic move and wasting something otherwise useful, and won't keep me from a yeet toDay, obviously.


That's... not how my ability works.



bruh moment said:


> JackPK said:
> 
> 
> 
> as for Tofu, I'm sorry if this is bringing out-of-game considerations into the matter that shouldn't be brought in, but my automatic gutread in any VM/Tofu game is that, since they live together IRL, they would have subliminally noticed things IRL to suspect each other if they were anti-aligned and that would factor into their reads of each other in the thread (even if they don't consciously intend it). since that doesn't feel like it's happening, I feel like they are aligned, and I am moderately strongly townreading VM so that leads me to townread Tofu as well
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Tofu said:
> 
> 
> 
> I honestly did realize it before Blu posted, because I went back to look, and vm def heard me say "oh shit" sitting at the table next to him when I realized I messed up, but I didn't say anything because we are ~not talking about mafia~ and that just burdens him with trying to defend me, which is dumb
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> brief aside, but can we please avoid making IRL-based reads or comments like this, it really just isn't fair/productive and it doesn't. help. we already saw how it worked out in endgame cats :| the firsthand IRL reads are already uncomfortable and not in the spirit of the game, going another layer beyond that to "well, since they're together in-person, they would probably ..." is even more untenable.
> 
> especially side-eyeing tofu for saying that she didn’t mention it to him before because she knew better, only to bring it up now for no clear reason other than for cred.
Click to expand...

I am disregarding any IRL-based reads I may have for this reason. Though since I _do _know her better than anyone here, I feel like she's playing exactly how I'd expect her to play as town. This is only her second mafia game ever though and I have no real point of comparison for her wolfgame aside from how she plays in Push the Button. I don't think she's the kind of person to draw attention to herself though in the scenario that she's mafia.



kokorico said:


> bruh moment said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> kokorico said:
> 
> 
> 
> What about the town wincon do you think confirms the existence of a mafia faction? Because I'm looking at it now, and I'm not seeing it at all. I suppose it's just about possible that Mampers phrased different people's wincons differently, but that would be an exceptional level of bastardry.
> 
> 
> 
> the part that says we win when all scum are dead? scum does mean “independents,” it means mafia. in a town vs independent setup it would likely say “opposing factions” or something instead. idk why we have to question the very basic foundation and semantics of the game every time for no reason tbh.
> -q
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Oh, good, it does actually say the same thing for you. thank god. big TL on you for that.
Click to expand...

Am I misreading the situation or did koko just backtrack on eir win condition?


----------



## JackPK

bruh moment said:


> JackPK said:
> 
> 
> 
> What made you decide to use your kill power when you did, and on whom you did?
> 
> 
> 
> idk if she's here anymore considering what she last said, but i'm pretty sure it was rationalized here already
> 
> 
> Negrek said:
> 
> 
> 
> Hmm.
> 
> A little worried about activated alien. Maybe better to vig rather than lynch?
> 
> Of course, if Zori IS our only vig, that'd be problematic because they need badges and don't seem super likely to get them.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> -m
Click to expand...

Yes, but I want to hear in her words why she picked out _Herbe_ as potential activated alien as opposed to anyone else. (I.E. I don't want to make my own assumptions or hear anyone else's assumptions first, before she explains.)


----------



## JackPK

Vipera Magnifica said:


> kokorico said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bruh moment said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> kokorico said:
> 
> 
> 
> What about the town wincon do you think confirms the existence of a mafia faction? Because I'm looking at it now, and I'm not seeing it at all. I suppose it's just about possible that Mampers phrased different people's wincons differently, but that would be an exceptional level of bastardry.
> 
> 
> 
> the part that says we win when all scum are dead? scum does mean “independents,” it means mafia. in a town vs independent setup it would likely say “opposing factions” or something instead. idk why we have to question the very basic foundation and semantics of the game every time for no reason tbh.
> -q
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Oh, good, it does actually say the same thing for you. thank god. big TL on you for that.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Am I misreading the situation or did koko just backtrack on eir win condition?
Click to expand...

I thought that interaction was just the result of em and q not being on the same page about what can constitute "scum," but admittedly I may be reading the situation too shallowly


----------



## Vipera Magnifica

JackPK said:


> Vipera Magnifica said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> kokorico said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bruh moment said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> kokorico said:
> 
> 
> 
> What about the town wincon do you think confirms the existence of a mafia faction? Because I'm looking at it now, and I'm not seeing it at all. I suppose it's just about possible that Mampers phrased different people's wincons differently, but that would be an exceptional level of bastardry.
> 
> 
> 
> the part that says we win when all scum are dead? scum does mean “independents,” it means mafia. in a town vs independent setup it would likely say “opposing factions” or something instead. idk why we have to question the very basic foundation and semantics of the game every time for no reason tbh.
> -q
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Oh, good, it does actually say the same thing for you. thank god. big TL on you for that.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Am I misreading the situation or did koko just backtrack on eir win condition?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I thought that interaction was just the result of em and q not being on the same page about what can constitute "scum," but admittedly I may be reading the situation too shallowly
Click to expand...

Hmm I see... I still assume that koko would known though that "mafia" and "scum" are used interchangeably.


----------



## Vipera Magnifica

That's probably nothing worth considering, and now that I think about it w!koko would not have even mentioned the town wincon if e was unsure about it


----------



## Vipera Magnifica

Vipera Magnifica said:


> I have a plan of action I want to suggest but I'd prefer to let more of the day naturally unfold before doing so


Should I offer my suggestion now? Or are there other things we want to finish discussing first

It's a bit against-the-grain of current meta so I expect some disapproval; I'd rather not completely redirect the conversation though if there's other things we want to resolve first


----------



## bruh moment

Vipera Magnifica said:


> That's probably nothing worth considering, and now that I think about it w!koko would not have even mentioned the town wincon if e was unsure about it


 tbf, we mentioned the town wincon first and e was merely reacting to it with skepticism; not like e went out on a limb to mention it unprompted or anything. we had a very similar conversation in ooctvtq, wherein e actually was mafia. i don’t remember exactly how it went but it’d probably be a good thing to look back at. i don’t think it’s beyond em to bluff about this—not sure i believe that’s what happened but i’m definitely not coming off it with a townread, at least.
-q


----------



## Vipera Magnifica

bruh moment said:


> Vipera Magnifica said:
> 
> 
> 
> That's probably nothing worth considering, and now that I think about it w!koko would not have even mentioned the town wincon if e was unsure about it
> 
> 
> 
> tbf, we mentioned the town wincon first and e was merely reacting to it with skepticism; not like e went out on a limb to mention it unprompted or anything. we had a very similar conversation in ooctvtq, wherein e actually was mafia. i don’t remember exactly how it went but it’d probably be a good thing to look back at. i don’t think it’s beyond em to bluff about this—not sure i believe that’s what happened but i’m definitely not coming off it with a townread, at least.
> -q
Click to expand...

hmm, that's interesting to hear then. do you have any other thoughts about koko?


----------



## qenya

Vipera Magnifica said:


> "mafia" and "scum" are used interchangeably.


have i slipped into some sort of parallel universe where all the mafia words mean slightly different things

do you guys also do that thing they do on earth prime where some of them change their timezones twice a year-

also, I am heartily sick of this conversation that I only even engaged with to see if skytini actually knew the town wincon or was just bluffing, but I can't let this juicy bit go unsaid:


bruh moment said:


> tbf, we mentioned the town wincon first and e was merely reacting to it with skepticism; not like e went out on a limb to mention it unprompted or anything. we had a very similar conversation in ooctvtq, wherein e actually was mafia. i don’t remember exactly how it went but it’d probably be a good thing to look back at.


I didn't remember this exchange - which is not surprising, since "scum" being used as "anti-town" is not a New Thing and probably wouldn't have registered as a notable event to me - so I went and searched for it and look who also understood that to be a possible meaning at the time. I rest my case. Now can we please focus on something other than semantics? :P

---

In some ways this post has been superseded by more recent events, but I've been trying to write it for two hours and I'm damn well not going to let it get lost in the kerfuffle -



Zero Moment said:


> Okay, I have some thoughts on what happened last Night, some likely and unlikely scenarios of what went down. First is that both kills were made by the Mafia. I find this unlikely, unless there's some restriction shenanigans like only being able to kill every other night but they have two kills. Next up is either 1 Mafia 1 Vig or 1 Mafia 1 Serial Killer. This one is strange to figure out, since we already had Zori claim vig, but they were 3p. Does that make her an SK equivalent? Is there a town-aligned vig? I can buy an SK attack, since I'm aware of several 3p killing roles with time-restricted kills. However, I have a third scenario, where Herbe himself was not actually targeted for death. Now, Zori claimed to have a drawback passive, and I'd bet that Herbe did too. Y'see, Neigborizers, Masons, and Cultists—and there's no way to know which Herbe actually was—all tend to have the downside of dying when they try to recruit Mafia members.  For reasons I'll likely get into tomorrow, I think _this_ is what killed Herbe, and then Hydrei prob just took the scumkill.


This theory (that Hydrei was the nightkill) is kind of interesting. I'd previously been assuming Herbe had been killed by the mafia, perhaps because they'd tried to hit him N0 and thought he was an alien. But this post by ZM reminded me of something I'd noticed in Hydreigon's posts yesterday. Take a look at these:


Hydreigon25 said:


> _Town_ shouldn't waste any actions on me for reasons i can't currently say why, due to it being early. However it will help _town_





Hydreigon25 said:


> i meant it could help _Town_ i prefer not to reveal it yet though





Hydreigon25 said:


> I'd much rather prefer to *Abstain* than to _Mis-Yeet_ someone that _could be town_





Hydreigon25 said:


> if you're _town_ however, i am providing hints _for town _


At the time, these pinged to me like an inexperienced cop dropping softs - I assumed he had checked Zori N0, got a result of "not mafia" or similar, and was inexpertly trying to guide the town away from yeeting her. I didn't say anything at the time because You Don't Out The Cop, and then I discarded the idea altogether after the combination of Zori's flip and Jack's paralysis, but I can certainly imagine the mafia noticing the same thing and deciding to off him out of an abundance of caution, especially if they don't have any inforoles that would give them other leads.

Negrek's claim kind of throws the spanner in the works here, a bit. It's true that if town!she vigged Herbe, that would leave the mafia nightkill open to hit Hydreigon. I think I do believe she killed Herbe because she thought he was an alien, for all the reasons other people have already outlined - e.g. her reluctance to yeet him - but that's not at all indicative of her alignment.

I guess the question we'd need to ask to differentiate the two possibilities is... in the world where Negrek is mafia, Hydrei was probably vigged, so is there a reason why the vig would have gone after him? It would have to be because of his tone, right? That would also imply the hypothetical vig didn't pay attention to the posts I quoted above, or didn't interpret them as possible cop softs. So I'd be interested in getting a quick straw poll of who did or didn't interpret them that way, to see whether it's something that a vig really ought to have noticed, or just my overactive pareidolia.

(Someone suggested earlier, as another possible solution, that this might be multiball, but I don't think that's likely - assume 2-3 players per mafia, plus at least two third parties, and that gives you no more than 10-12 town, or 55-67%. That's a shade scumsided, don't you think?)


----------



## RedneckPhoenix

why did we ever stop hypocopping tbh


----------



## RedneckPhoenix

anyways. i have a theory about this game, but it sorta outs me so i'll percolate on it.


----------



## RedneckPhoenix

i honestly hate when people say "i won't be here for x amount of time" instead of "i might not be here for x amount of time but we'll see"


only scum deal in absolutes


----------



## RedneckPhoenix

i will say this: one of my abilities is an Ability, the other is a Move. tell me if yours are different or the same.


----------



## Stryke

RedneckPhoenix said:


> i will say this: one of my abilities is an Ability, the other is a Move. tell me if yours are different or the same.


Mine are quotes


----------



## RedneckPhoenix

stryke.


----------



## Mawile

hello i have just finished watching the film Mac and Me which felt like it was about 4 hours long

personally i assumed Hydrei was trying to hint that they were specifically a town roleblocker, and that got them killed by the mafia because a town roleblocker would be detrimental to them

am currently a bit no thoughts head empty on Negrek but I can get behind her wanting to off Herbe because third party etc etc. she could be scum or town, i don't really have a specific lean on her either way. i should probably iso people eventually



RedneckPhoenix said:


> i will say this: one of my abilities is an Ability, the other is a Move. tell me if yours are different or the same.


i have one move and one thing that sounds close enough to a move that i thought it was an actual move


----------



## RedneckPhoenix

look it up check if it's an ability

goes for everyone


----------



## Mawile

RedneckPhoenix said:


> look it up check if it's an ability


it is not


----------



## RedneckPhoenix

alright

anyone else?


----------



## Ys_

Mine are both moves.


----------



## qenya

Ysabel said:


> Mine are both moves.


So are mine!


----------



## bruh moment

kokorico said:


> I didn't remember this exchange - which is not surprising, since "scum" being used as "anti-town" is not a New Thing and probably wouldn't have registered as a notable event to me - so I went and searched for it and look who also understood that to be a possible meaning at the time. I rest my case. Now can we please focus on something other than semantics? :P


 is this supposed to be some kind of gotcha?  mewt is not me and also she turned out to be incorrect there, which if anything is additional reason to assume that scum strictly = mafia here.  this isn't _just_ a matter of semantics if you're still entertaining the idea of there being no mafia, which is blatantly antithetical to hunting mafia (our purpose as town).



RedneckPhoenix said:


> look it up check if it's an ability
> 
> goes for everyone


 our abilities are moves as well.


RedneckPhoenix said:


> why did we ever stop hypocopping tbh


 hypocopping is mostly useful if roles are revealed upon death, because when someone flips and it's revealed they were a cop, you can go back and look at their hypo results.  i would say hypocopping probably has ~negative utility if roles are not revealed, since if someone provides an incorrect hypo check it just eliminates them as the potential cop to mafia, and it usually doesn't provide anything to town that a regular claim wouldn't provide anyway.
-q


----------



## bruh moment

bruh moment said:


> our abilities are moves as well.


 this was bad phrasing.  our _actions_ are named after moves.


----------



## Hydreigon25

RedneckPhoenix said:


> only scum deal in absolutes


----------



## Hydreigon25

i was just remembering a quote from star wars when i seen Reds post, i shouldn't have posted the meme or this explaining why since I am dead


----------



## JackPK

kokorico said:


> So I'd be interested in getting a quick straw poll of who did or didn't interpret them that way, to see whether it's something that a vig really ought to have noticed, or just my overactive pareidolia.


I interpreted them as Hydreigon trying to soft that they (i.e. Hydreigon) were town, and not realizing how obvious or pointless it was



RedneckPhoenix said:


> i will say this: one of my abilities is an Ability, the other is a Move. tell me if yours are different or the same.


one of mine is riffing on a Pokestar Studios title (though not an exact match to that title), the other is not anything from or based on canon


----------



## RedneckPhoenix

Hydreigon25 said:


> RedneckPhoenix said:
> 
> 
> 
> only scum deal in absolutes
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler: ugh
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 756
Click to expand...

that's the joke buddy


----------



## RedneckPhoenix

also that's gotta be by far the worst image i've seen on these forums


----------



## bruh moment

we disregarded it at first but we keep coming back to this post and feeling increasingly unsettled about it


rari_teh said:


> this was a very interesting analysis, bruh. i can’t say i’m fully swayed by it, but it definitely sounds off, especially because of the inconsistencies regarding how she remembers the details of her powers.
> 
> i’m looking forward to see tofu’s response and her reply to the question i made on my longpost. also looking forward to your negrekthoughts
> 
> thanks, bruh


(mewt:) i just. don't really understand this post. i find it hard to believe that there was nothing in our post that you wanted to engage with? nothing to ask about, or anything about her reservations that she wanted to elaborate on?

the only motive i can see, either way, is "i want tofu to give her side of the story first." but to be quite honest, i think that anything tofu said after the initial claim/flurry is massively less relevant than anything else - the entire read depends on the order in which she gave information, and the exact genesis of the new move that she had _expressly said didn't exist prior_. 

(skylar:) tofu coming in to say "well i actually did just forget" doesn't really offer any information that should change the validity of our analysis, since the entire point was that the chain of events was back-pedaly and revisionist, and that back-pedaling/revision has already occurred at this point. it doesn't feel like you were actually attempting to engage with our thoughts in good faith, and sort of leads us to wonder whether you had some other purpose for avoiding engaging with the most/offloading it until after tofu got the chance to come in and throw her two cents in. feels like a potentially partner-y dynamic honestly, though we're not 100% sure we want to go there yet.


----------



## bruh moment

bruh moment said:


> nothing to ask about, or anything about *your reservations that *you wanted to elaborate on?


oops perspective shift


----------



## rari_teh

bruh moment said:


> i'd even argue that its town rationale is exactly equivalent to what you said was _anti-_town about it at EoD; figuring out if rnp had the ability to fake mafia out was crucial to figuring out if the role had any utility left, *especially* when he'd literally used the phrase inthread already during his claim.


…if he does not have the ability to fake mafia out, which he hadn’t in his fakeclaim, doesn’t the act of declaring it in thread destroy every last shred of possible utility in his role? i cannot grasp how this can be perceived as town



bruh moment said:


> although i would also ordinarily be a little worried about rolefishing, i also think it's pretty important to consider that - if negrek is a) mafia and b) conscious of how her posts would come off (and i'm inclined to think so, because she's an experienced player) - then what you've presented would be tantamount to like ... pretty unnecessary/unprompted d1 openwolfing. do you think this world makes more sense than there being a fundamental difference in playstyles/attitudes?


this is not a good train of thought tbh
if this sort of logics was sure to work, koko would’ve been mafia in acnh



bruh moment said:


> when he spills it, this is what she says:
> 
> 
> Negrek said:
> 
> 
> 
> Huh, interesting. Thanks!
> 
> It's definitely an odd role, but not at all outside the realm of what I would expect from MF. If you're telling the truth about it, then yeah, I think bruh moment was right in that now the cat's out of the bag, it's unlikely we'll be able to take advantage of it. But it would be very powerful, and I wouldn't totally rule it out yet.
> 
> 
> 
> emphasis mine. i have no words.
Click to expand...

also i ... don't really know what you were trying to convey here to be honest, can you clarify?
[/QUOTE]
she pulled the cat’s last leg out of the bag and then immediately went “oh. what a pity. the cat is now fully out of the bag.”



bruh moment said:


> this already wasn't really damning/evidence-based imo, but in light of neg claiming to have killed herbe i also think that this actually is +v and checks out with her EoD behavior


i don’t think this is AI honestly
if herbe was shot by the mafia n0 and claimed 3p d1, it was also in the best interest of the mafia to shoot him again n1. if anybody was looking at herbe and/or negrek during the Night, they would be able to attest her “vigging” and hopefully confirm her, if she’s telling the truth about having killed him. this behaviour is consistent both with v!joat!negrek and w!kp!negrek.



kokorico said:


> I'd be interested in getting a quick straw poll of who did or didn't interpret them that way, to see whether it's something that a vig really ought to have noticed, or just my overactive pareidolia.


i saw the same thing as mawile tbh. i thought they were town roleblocker.



RedneckPhoenix said:


> anyways. i have a theory about this game, but it sorta outs me so i'll percolate on it.


i also have a theory about this game but it sorta outs me. i wonder if it’s the same.



RedneckPhoenix said:


> i will say this: one of my abilities is an Ability, the other is a Move. tell me if yours are different or the same.


my free action is a Fake Thing That Sounds Like A Move and my badgepower is a Move.


----------



## rari_teh

one of the quotes got botched but you get the idea


----------



## Mawile

oh yeah also this post ever so slightly tipped me off to hydrei being a town roleblocker



Hydreigon25 said:


> I think a _town Role blocker_ would be useful to stay hidden, if there is one


----------



## rari_teh

bruh moment said:


> we disregarded it at first but we keep coming back to this post and feeling increasingly unsettled about it
> 
> 
> rari_teh said:
> 
> 
> 
> this was a very interesting analysis, bruh. i can’t say i’m fully swayed by it, but it definitely sounds off, especially because of the inconsistencies regarding how she remembers the details of her powers.
> 
> i’m looking forward to see tofu’s response and her reply to the question i made on my longpost. also looking forward to your negrekthoughts
> 
> thanks, bruh
> 
> 
> 
> (mewt:) i just. don't really understand this post. i find it hard to believe that there was nothing in our post that you wanted to engage with? nothing to ask about, or anything about her reservations that she wanted to elaborate on?
> 
> the only motive i can see, either way, is "i want tofu to give her side of the story first." but to be quite honest, i think that anything tofu said after the initial claim/flurry is massively less relevant than anything else - the entire read depends on the order in which she gave information, and the exact genesis of the new move that she had _expressly said didn't exist prior_.
> 
> (skylar:) tofu coming in to say "well i actually did just forget" doesn't really offer any information that should change the validity of our analysis, since the entire point was that the chain of events was back-pedaly and revisionist, and that back-pedaling/revision has already occurred at this point. it doesn't feel like you were actually attempting to engage with our thoughts in good faith, and sort of leads us to wonder whether you had some other purpose for avoiding engaging with the most/offloading it until after tofu got the chance to come in and throw her two cents in. feels like a potentially partner-y dynamic honestly, though we're not 100% sure we want to go there yet.
Click to expand...

oh boy. i really had nothing to add on, really? i wanted to let tofu respond to things first and see how she would react. i see that you’re tunneled and you have good reason for doing so, but i frankly find her claim to have accidentally conflated colourful scatter and the badge distribution upon death believable. i understand that you find the progression sketchy and it sure doesn’t have the best look, but i don’t think it’s too much of a stretch to think that her memory worked a bit selectively/she glossed over the “boring parts” and retained the interesting action.

this is not a hill i’m intending to die on and maybe i’m being pocketed and making a clown out of myself, but tofu is not somebody i’d be comfortable lynching in the foreseeable future. i think it would be for the best if a cop/investigator, if there is such a thing, checked her toNight and. well, retained the information until a redcheck is found, really.


----------



## rari_teh

rari_teh said:


> i also have a theory about this game but it sorta outs me. i wonder if it’s the same.


i can’t take this out of my head. @RedneckPhoenix if i told you my theory doesn’t work if negrek is telling the truth about last Night’s events, what would you say?


----------



## bruh moment

rari_teh said:


> bruh moment said:
> 
> 
> 
> i'd even argue that its town rationale is exactly equivalent to what you said was _anti-_town about it at EoD; figuring out if rnp had the ability to fake mafia out was crucial to figuring out if the role had any utility left, *especially* when he'd literally used the phrase inthread already during his claim.
> 
> 
> 
> …if he does not have the ability to fake mafia out, which he hadn’t in his fakeclaim, doesn’t the act of declaring it in thread destroy every last shred of possible utility in his role? i cannot grasp how this can be perceived as town
Click to expand...

rnp had already decided the role was worthless. he was already planning on _not using the role._
do you not think that him claiming every detail of his role d1 for no reason might have done most of the legwork in destroying its utility?


rari_teh said:


> although i would also ordinarily be a little worried about rolefishing, i also think it's pretty important to consider that - if negrek is a) mafia and b) conscious of how her posts would come off (and i'm inclined to think so, because she's an experienced player) - then what you've presented would be tantamount to like ... pretty unnecessary/unprompted d1 openwolfing. do you think this world makes more sense than there being a fundamental difference in playstyles/attitudes?
> 
> 
> 
> this is not a good train of thought tbh
> if this sort of logics was sure to work, koko would’ve been mafia in acnh
Click to expand...

... ? i'm saying that i think you're sooner assuming that negrek is just mafia playing _incredibly _badly than thinking "maybe there is a foundational difference in metagame," and then not engaging with or really considering that latter world. that is not the same thing as what happened in acnh, considering the meta difference there was a much wider stretch than seeing that negrek is acting in complete concert with a meta that we KNOW she participated in, and that you and i have talked about in extensive detail during the games where we've hydraed together. >:


rari_teh said:


> i don’t think this is AI honestly
> 
> if herbe was shot by the mafia n0 and claimed 3p d1, it was also in the best interest of the mafia to shoot him again n1. if anybody was looking at herbe and/or negrek during the Night, they would be able to attest her “vigging” and hopefully confirm her, if she’s telling the truth about having killed him. this behaviour is consistent both with v!joat!negrek and w!kp!negrek.


(skylar:) i'm sorry, what?  the only reason negrek's claim works at all is because there were two kills (one of which makes perfect sense to have been coming from negrek given her eod), so unless you think the mafia coordinated both of these kills—for which there is no evidence—this makes zero sense.


----------



## rari_teh

bruh moment said:


> do you not think that him claiming every detail of his role d1 for no reason might have done most of the legwork in destroying its utility?


yes, of course. but that is not the point here. the only thing that was not clear was if/how mafia would be notified of his role’s activation. that was the last shred of possibility of his role being put into use. and negrek _insisted_ in extracting that piece of information from him. once again i ask, why would town want to make that information public?



bruh moment said:


> ... ? i'm saying that i think you're sooner assuming that negrek is just mafia playing _incredibly _badly than thinking "maybe there is a foundational difference in metagame," and then not engaging with or really considering that latter world. that is not the same thing as what happened in acnh, considering the meta difference there was a much wider stretch than seeing that negrek is acting in complete concert with a meta that we KNOW she participated in, and that you and i have talked about in extensive detail during the games where we've hydraed together. >:


i concede that there is a good possibility i’m overly ignoring the difference in metagame, but negrek sure wasn’t nearly this infofishy in tvt. what i was talking about how setting arbitrary bars based on how we perceive others to play and then guide our reads almost purely by that is not going to lead us anywhere. more specifically, i was thinking about the abundance of the word “disingenuous” in my kokolongpost in acnh, where…it turned out e wasn’t being disingenuous at all.



bruh moment said:


> (skylar:) i'm sorry, what? the only reason negrek's claim works at all is because there were two kills (one of which makes perfect sense to have been coming from negrek given her eod), so unless you think the mafia coordinated both of these kills—for which there is no evidence—this makes zero sense.


…huh?
these are the possibilities i am seeing:

v!negrek vigged herbe. mafia killed hydrei.
w!negrek killed herbe. hydrei was vigged.
i don’t think there’s a world where negrek did not kill herbe.


----------



## RedneckPhoenix

rari_teh said:


> rari_teh said:
> 
> 
> 
> i also have a theory about this game but it sorta outs me. i wonder if it’s the same.
> 
> 
> 
> i can’t take this out of my head. @RedneckPhoenix if i told you my theory doesn’t work if negrek is telling the truth about last Night’s events, what would you say?
Click to expand...

to which one are you referring


----------



## rari_teh

RedneckPhoenix said:


> rari_teh said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rari_teh said:
> 
> 
> 
> i also have a theory about this game but it sorta outs me. i wonder if it’s the same.
> 
> 
> 
> i can’t take this out of my head. @RedneckPhoenix if i told you my theory doesn’t work if negrek is telling the truth about last Night’s events, what would you say?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> to which one are you referring
Click to expand...

more specifically, her vigging herbe based on his 3p claim
i swear this makes sense, i just can’t really elaborate without claiming


----------



## RedneckPhoenix

oh.

then no not in the slightest


----------



## bruh moment

rari_teh said:


> yes, of course. but that is not the point here. the only thing that was not clear was if/how mafia would be notified of his role’s activation. that was the last shred of possibility of his role being put into use. and negrek _insisted_ in extracting that piece of information from him. once again i ask, why would town want to make that information public?


 well, a few reasons, but it's important to preface that that information was already public; negrek was just asking for clarification.  rnp had already said that mafia were notified, just not exactly how.

anyway, rnp clamming up about it wouldn't have served any purpose, because despite what you say about the "possibility of his role being put to use," the _only reason_ rnp even posted about his role is because he had already determined he was not going to use it. it wasn't going to happen; rnp was pointedly never going to use his power on his own. that was the entire point. the only way his role could have possibly been of use at that point is if someone else figured out a way to make it useful and convinced him to follow that plan, which is exactly what negrek was trying to do.



rari_teh said:


> i concede that there is a good possibility i’m overly ignoring the difference in metagame, but negrek sure wasn’t nearly this infofishy in tvt. what i was talking about how setting arbitrary bars based on how we perceive others to play and then guide our reads almost purely by that is not going to lead us anywhere. more specifically, i was thinking about the abundance of the word “disingenuous” in my kokolongpost in acnh, where…it turned out e wasn’t being disingenuous at all.


 it's not really a "possibility"; you are definitely doing that by choosing to parse their behavior as wolfy rather than seriously considering the idea that it's just different.  and for one thing, this isn't an "arbitrary bar"; it's based on an understanding of the former tcod metagame.  negrek wasn't as "infofishy" in the last game, sure; but they had an investigative power there, and the extent of their  participation in that game was essentially to report their results for the day and then kick back.  just because they're making different kinds of posts here (because their function in the game is different) doesn't imply that they're a wolf, but that seems to be a big part of what's informing your read.  for the record, it's still a big stretch to describe her asking clarifying questions to people who were clearly comfortable with fully divulging their roles as "infofishing."



rari_teh said:


> …huh?
> these are the possibilities i am seeing:
> 
> v!negrek vigged herbe. mafia killed hydrei.
> w!negrek killed herbe. hydrei was vigged.
> i don’t think there’s a world where negrek did not kill herbe.


 i'm not really talking about that.  i'm specifically referring to what you said here:


rari_teh said:


> if anybody was looking at herbe and/or negrek during the Night, they would be able to attest her “vigging” and hopefully confirm her


 this just doesn't really make sense?  the mafia had no guarantee that there were going to be two kills last night, and if there weren't, it wouldn't make any sense for w!negrek to claim vig.  it'd be better for her to just say nothing at all.  and it's worth a mention that it's not like she came breaking down the door with a vigilante claim; i had to pull it out of her because she was literally ditching the thread.

the claim _does_ make sense given her eod, and it makes less sense for her to claim it as a wolf because in that case there would clearly be another vigilante to counterclaim her, given the additional kill; unless you think that vigilante was either herbe or hydrei AND that the mafia knew that, claiming vig would be a large and pointless risk.
-q


----------



## rari_teh

bruh moment said:


> well, a few reasons, but it's important to preface that that information was already public; negrek was just asking for clarification. rnp had already said that mafia were notified, just not exactly how.


i’m going to insist on this, what _few reasons _are you referring to? because i can’t think of a single town-sided reason to do so



bruh moment said:


> negrek wasn't as "infofishy" in the last game, sure; but they had an investigative power there, and the extent of their participation in that game was essentially to report their results for the day and then kick back. just because they're making different kinds of posts here (because their function in the game is different) doesn't imply that they're a wolf, but that seems to be a big part of what's informing your read.


i really don’t see how one’s role within the same alignment would change how much information one requests from the others, but whatever ig. i can’t really argue with the old meta because 1. i wasn’t around to see it and 2. most of what i know about it was relayed to me from other people.



bruh moment said:


> for the record, it's still a big stretch to describe her asking clarifying questions to people who were clearly comfortable with fully divulging their roles as "infofishing."


the problem isn’t in asking clarifying questions, but instead in the pattern of only asking things that really don’t have a good reason to be asked and doing little else. if it’s a stretch to call it infofishing it’s minor at best.



bruh moment said:


> this just doesn't really make sense? the mafia had no guarantee that there were going to be two kills last night, and if there weren't, it wouldn't make any sense for w!negrek to claim vig. it'd be better for her to just say nothing at all. and it's worth a mention that it's not like she came breaking down the door with a vigilante claim; i had to pull it out of her because she was literally ditching the thread.


what i was trying to say is, if ultracool watched herbe or [unclaimed tracker] tracked negrek, they would have seen the kill. i don’t think that, if negrek is fakeclaiming, she is cooking that one up since before SoD.



bruh moment said:


> the claim _does_ make sense given her eod, and it makes less sense for her to claim it as a wolf because in that case there would clearly be another vigilante to counterclaim her, given the additional kill; unless you think that vigilante was either herbe or hydrei AND that the mafia knew that, claiming vig would be a large and pointless risk.


by claiming vig, if people believe in her, she’s pretty much putting under fire whomever killed hydrei. if she’s town, well, _good_, but if she’s mafia as i’m inclined to believe, she’s pretty much obligating the vig to out themself and counterclaim.

i think the real vigilante is laying among us and did not want to out themself.


----------



## JackPK

piping up to point out that she claimed JOAT and neither of y'all (er, none of the three of y'all?) seem to remember that


----------



## RedneckPhoenix

why would a joat kill either of them?


----------



## RedneckPhoenix

"i must use my one use of the vig power RIGHT NOW bc hydreigon was annoying/bc herbe... exists"


----------



## rari_teh

RedneckPhoenix said:


> "i must use my one use of the vig power RIGHT NOW bc hydreigon was annoying/bc herbe... exists"


negrek manifested worry that herbe was an activated alien when bruh voted for him yesterDay, so that checks out


----------



## RedneckPhoenix

doesn't, really,


----------



## RedneckPhoenix

if i were worried about an active alien i would simply not lynch them


----------



## rari_teh

RedneckPhoenix said:


> if i were worried about an active alien i would simply not lynch them


well, i mean, so would i ig. like, our wincon is to eliminate mafia, not. 3ps. and it’s also on the best interest of the mafia to prevent an alien win.
but she specifically said that it would be nice if the vig took care of him, so. if she’s town it checks out ig?


----------



## RedneckPhoenix

if hypothetically negrek were to be a joat would one not

watch the alien whom it is in the mafia's direct interest to kill


----------



## rari_teh

rari_teh said:


> and it’s also on the best interest of the mafia to prevent an alien win.


i say this meaning that. the mafia would probably take care of him anyway because a) an alien win incurs in a mafia loss and b) apparently mf’s mafia wincons tend to be achieve parity/majority of the population in general, not 1:1 ratio with town


----------



## Mawile

RedneckPhoenix said:


> if hypothetically negrek were to be a joat would one not
> 
> watch the alien whom it is in the mafia's direct interest to kill


depends if she has watcher ability in the first place


----------



## RedneckPhoenix

maybe i'm a dumbass but i really don't see any credibility in negrek's claim


----------



## rari_teh

RedneckPhoenix said:


> if hypothetically negrek were to be a joat would one not
> 
> watch the alien whom it is in the mafia's direct interest to kill


if one of her abilities is watcher and it wasn’t used up, that is most definitely the best possible move


----------



## rari_teh

RedneckPhoenix said:


> maybe i'm a dumbass but i really don't see any credibility in negrek's claim


i see very little credibility, but it’s there


----------



## RedneckPhoenix

Mawile said:


> RedneckPhoenix said:
> 
> 
> 
> if hypothetically negrek were to be a joat would one not
> 
> watch the alien whom it is in the mafia's direct interest to kill
> 
> 
> 
> depends if she has watcher ability in the first place
Click to expand...

ah, yes, joat stands for jack of most trades, ofc


----------



## RedneckPhoenix

why would you make a watcherless joat. it's such a common role


----------



## bruh moment

rari_teh said:


> i’m going to insist on this, what _few reasons _are you referring to? because i can’t think of a single town-sided reason to do so


 i wrote like a paragraph about it immediately after the line you quoted 


rari_teh said:


> i really don’t see how one’s role within the same alignment would change how much information one requests from the others, but whatever ig.


 that’s not really what i’m saying. i was saying that their posts don’t look exactly like they did in tvt because they necessarily can’t. i imagine they’re asking for information more because like 90% of the mechanical discussion to be had in the game so far has been based on claim ambiguities?


rari_teh said:


> if she’s mafia as i’m inclined to believe, she’s pretty much obligating the vig to out themself and counterclaim.
> 
> i think the real vigilante is laying among us and did not want to out themself.


 this doesn’t make sense given that she’s claimed joat as jack says, but even if she was claiming vig this would still be a nonsensical trade for the mafia to make. reads more like you’re rationalizing ad hoc to suit your read here.

i really just, don’t see any reason to particularly doubt this claim unless you already have reason to believe negrek is scum, and the provided reasons are really flimsy and circular. even if you suspect it’s fake, there’s no real grounds to assume that’s the truth with any degree of confidence.

we’re having a hard time believing these conclusions are being arrived at organically. they feel much more like they’re constructed as a means to an end than they feel like good faith interpretations of the events.



rari_teh said:


> well, i mean, so would i ig. like, our wincon is to eliminate mafia, not. 3ps. and it’s also on the best interest of the mafia to prevent an alien win.


 our goal is to win, which is incompatible with an alien victory, so if you didnt have any solid scum leads (which negrek said she didn’t), it’s probably as good a shot  as any tbh.
-q


----------



## JackPK

RedneckPhoenix said:


> if hypothetically negrek were to be a joat would one not
> 
> watch the alien whom it is in the mafia's direct interest to kill


that assumes Negrek is the kind of JOAT that has a watcher power (there are many JOAT variants and it's not worth trying to guess which one Negrek is -- it only helps mafia to publicize which powers she has and which powers she doesn't have)


----------



## bruh moment

RedneckPhoenix said:


> if hypothetically negrek were to be a joat would one not
> 
> watch the alien whom it is in the mafia's direct interest to kill


it’s in EVERYONE’S direct interest to kill the alien. if the activated alien is lynched, everyone else loses. i don’t think it’s that odd to just take care of it yourself if you have the power.
-q


----------



## bruh moment

RedneckPhoenix said:


> why would you make a watcherless joat. it's such a common role


bruh, we don't have that info. besides i've seen trackers on joats way more often
also as the last joat in tcodf meta (iirc) i didn't have a watcher ability. this is kind of a weird train of thought
-m


----------



## bruh moment

bruh moment said:


> RedneckPhoenix said:
> 
> 
> 
> why would you make a watcherless joat. it's such a common role
> 
> 
> 
> bruh, we don't have that info. besides i've seen trackers on joats way more often
> also as the last joat in tcodf meta (iirc) i didn't have a watcher ability. this is kind of a weird train of thought
> -m
Click to expand...

also, regardless of everything, imo it matters way more that negrek herself had said something incredibly consistent with her night action than what you think ideal play would have been in the event that she even has that ability
-m


----------



## RedneckPhoenix

ooh, yeah, i have a really good defense for my argument!

fuck you.


----------



## bruh moment

(exhales in 'finally, the draft box is free')
-m


----------



## bruh moment

RedneckPhoenix said:


> ooh, yeah, i have a really good defense for my argument!
> 
> fuck you.


really not in the mood for this tbh, please chill
-m


----------



## rari_teh

bruh moment said:


> i wrote like a paragraph about it immediately after the line you quoted


you mean this? 


bruh moment said:


> the only way his role could have possibly been of use at that point is if someone else figured out a way to make it useful and convinced him to follow that plan, which is exactly what negrek was trying to do.


because that doesn’t implicate in. trying to get more information, at least in my head it does not. but w/e ig



bruh moment said:


> i really just, don’t see any reason to particularly doubt this claim unless you already have reason to believe negrek is scum, and the provided reasons are really flimsy and circular. even if you suspect it’s fake, there’s no real grounds to assume that’s the truth with any degree of confidence.


i have a further reason i do not want to elaborate upon.


----------



## bruh moment

rari_teh said:


> because that doesn’t implicate in. trying to get more information, at least in my head it does not. but w/e ig


 ?_? i'm not sure in what way "make a plan to use the role" does not necessarily imply "understand how the role works."
-q


----------



## RedneckPhoenix

no. fuck you, because you're forgetting literally the main gimmick of this entire game, that 99% of power roles need BADGES to function.


----------



## RedneckPhoenix

i don't think zori would have given any badges to negrek


----------



## Mawile

RedneckPhoenix said:


> 99% of power roles need BADGES to function





MampersandF said:


> generally, each role in the game will have *additional *abilities that they can use by expending Badges


----------



## bruh moment

RedneckPhoenix said:


> no. fuck you, because you're forgetting literally the main gimmick of this entire game, that 99% of power roles need BADGES to function.


it would've been nice if you'd elaborated on this earlier,
this is maybe something, but i don't think it necessarily implicates her either tbqh.
-m


----------



## rari_teh

bruh moment said:


> ?_? i'm not sure in what way "make a plan to use the role" does not necessarily imply "understand how the role works."


it does not imply “make every detail public in a way it could help mafia to find out if they are being faked out or not”
i feel sillier by the minute by extending a discussion on a role that isn’t even real to begin with but. here we are.



RedneckPhoenix said:


> no. fuck you, because you're forgetting literally the main gimmick of this entire game, that 99% of power roles need BADGES to function.


i fail to understand where you’re trying to go with this


----------



## RedneckPhoenix

based on the utter uselessness of my free ability i refuse to believe that a joat would be able to function without badges.


----------



## bruh moment

rari_teh said:


> it does not imply “make every detail public in a way it could help mafia to find out if they are being faked out or not”
> i feel sillier by the minute by extending a discussion on a role that isn’t even real to begin with but. here we are.


you're really just not reading or attempting to understand my posts at this point
-q


----------



## RedneckPhoenix

my badge ability costs 2 and is, like, a normal mafia ability. might be a one shot in most games.


----------



## bruh moment

rari_teh said:


> it does not imply “make every detail public in a way it could help mafia to find out if they are being faked out or not”
> i feel sillier by the minute by extending a discussion on a role that isn’t even real to begin with but. here we are.


omg. why does it matter when he'd already claimed every detail of the role, asking for clarification != drawing out info. he had already said mafia got notified, but had left it unclear whether or not it was ONLY by nature of the phrase being in a public post. the clarification _mattered_ because it was precisely the boundary between whether or not the role was literally shot, and again, he had posted the phrase during the claim - again leading to a possible zone of clarification if, as he was saying, the phrase always resulted in action submission.
-m


----------



## RedneckPhoenix

if mf wanted to piss a ton of people off, she'd make a role that's just god that gets to use strong abilities with no badge cost


----------



## bruh moment

RedneckPhoenix said:


> based on the utter uselessness of my free ability i refuse to believe that a joat would be able to function without badges.


fwiw i am basing my conclusion on some of our role info as well. it really is not impossible
-m


----------



## bruh moment

RedneckPhoenix said:


> if mf wanted to piss a ton of people off, she'd make a role that's just god that gets to use strong abilities with no badge cost


you do know that this depends on what variant of joat she is right?
-m


----------



## JackPK

RedneckPhoenix said:


> no. fuck you, because you're forgetting literally the main gimmick of this entire game, that 99% of power roles need BADGES to function.





RedneckPhoenix said:


> i don't think zori would have given any badges to negrek


badges are given at the end of the phase _after_ someone dies, so nobody had any badges as of last night's night actions

also, virtually everyone here iirc has said they have a free action and a badge action


----------



## rari_teh

RedneckPhoenix said:


> based on the utter uselessness of my free ability i refuse to believe that a joat would be able to function without badges.


fwiw my free ability is not utterly useless



bruh moment said:


> you're really just not reading or attempting to understand my posts at this point


i swear i am reading and attempting to understand your logic, but i am ultimately failing at it. i’m sorry, i know this must be as frustrating for you as it is being for me and i’m pretty sure you are town as well; i guess this boils down to irreconciliable differences in playstyle or something adjacent, but i fail to understand this logic


----------



## RedneckPhoenix

let's say, for sake of argument, i DID have the journey power.

1. i'd still need EIGHT BADGES as claimed
2. there's a high chance mafia just wouldn't believe me
3. negrek asking for more details, as mafia, makes a fuckton of sense, as they'd be making sure of the consequences of the role such that their mafia buddies could knock me off, even if negrek got outed


----------



## JackPK

since nobody had any badges as of last night's night actions, the two deaths must have both come from free actions, so *shrug* clearly vig or joat or something like that has to be a free action. either that or something wildly out there like Herbe and Hydrei were lovers or something


----------



## JackPK

not saying this indicates Negrek is telling the truth, just pointing out the badge thing is not an indicator she's lying


----------



## rari_teh

bruh moment said:


> omg. why does it matter when he'd already claimed every detail of the role, asking for clarification != drawing out info. he had already said mafia got notified, but had left it unclear whether or not it was ONLY by nature of the phrase being in a public post. the clarification _mattered_ because it was precisely the boundary between whether or not the role was literally shot, and again, he had posted the phrase during the claim - again leading to a possible zone of clarification if, as he was saying, the phrase always resulted in action submission.
> -m


then why not say “if the mafia isn’t clearly notified, you can still wifom them if you used your ability or not” instead of outing whether a fake out could be identified or not? i know that asking for clarification isn’t the same thing as infofishing, but in this case it damn sure is


----------



## RedneckPhoenix

JackPK said:


> since nobody had any badges as of last night's night actions, the two deaths must have both come from free actions, so *shrug* clearly vig or joat or something like that has to be a free action. either that or something wildly out there like Herbe and Hydrei were lovers or something


no, no, i get this

i'm saying, vig on its own? not badgeworthy. if i had to guess, i'd say the REAL vig's role is probably 

free: kill a player
x badges: strongman a player


----------



## RedneckPhoenix

but joat just... doesn't make sense to be free. you already have the badge system, make every action cost one badge then.


----------



## RedneckPhoenix

maybe hydrei got modkilled again. that'd be funny.


----------



## rari_teh

RedneckPhoenix said:


> but joat just... doesn't make sense to be free. you already have the badge system, make every action cost one badge then.


tbqh i think that joat is a bit, uh, too underpowered for a badge action? this is an 18 slots setup, each person seems to hand out [1–3] badges upon death… most people will never get hold of a single badge throughout the entire game

as i said before, my badgepower has _the potential_ of doing Good Stuff, but it requires >a lot< of foresight and, most importantly, luck; that’s why i don’t want people wasting their badges on me


----------



## bruh moment

general q for the crowd, are we assuming 3p doesn't give out any badges then?


RedneckPhoenix said:


> but joat just... doesn't make sense to be free. you already have the badge system, make every action cost one badge then.


also maintaining that this is not something to FoS negrek over, we just have no way of knowing and from my own role i really just don't think it's impossible or even necessarily improbable that the badge cost checks out
-m


----------



## rari_teh

bruh moment said:


> general q for the crowd, are we assuming 3p doesn't give out any badges then?


i was assuming they do hand out badges, but in reality i have no clue



bruh moment said:


> RedneckPhoenix said:
> 
> 
> 
> but joat just... doesn't make sense to be free. you already have the badge system, make every action cost one badge then.
> 
> 
> 
> also maintaining that this is not something to FoS negrek over, we just have no way of knowing and from my own role i really just don't think it's impossible or even necessarily improbable that the badge cost checks out
Click to expand...

i’m with bruh in this one


----------



## RedneckPhoenix

assume negrek is a vig

either we have few to no leads, or we lynch a trigger happy gunner


----------



## rari_teh

RedneckPhoenix said:


> assume negrek is a vig
> 
> either we have few to no leads, or we lynch a trigger happy gunner


i… don’t think lynching trigger-happy gunners is a good strategy


----------



## bruh moment

RedneckPhoenix said:


> assume negrek is a vig
> 
> either we have few to no leads, or we lynch a trigger happy gunner


what?


----------



## JackPK

rari_teh said:


> bruh moment said:
> 
> 
> 
> general q for the crowd, are we assuming 3p doesn't give out any badges then?
> 
> 
> 
> i was assuming they do hand out badges, but in reality i have no clue
Click to expand...

same


----------



## bruh moment

ftr skylar and i mentioned having a badge theory at some point earlier on
the theory was that mafia doesn't hand out badges because they'd be incentivized to just keep badges within their own faction

-m


----------



## RedneckPhoenix

hydreigon why the hell did you see fit to wow react my innocuous post


----------



## bruh moment

bruh moment said:


> ftr skylar and i mentioned having a badge theory at some point earlier on
> the theory was that mafia doesn't hand out badges because they'd be incentivized to just keep badges within their own faction
> 
> -m


this was another reason we were especially :/ at tofu (though, even without that theory, the read would remain) and also was why hydreigon was listed as a null/scumlean (they posted something that implied they didn't give out badges, but i think it's also possible that microreading their post was a bit of a stretch anyway.) just something in the back of our mind
-m


----------



## bruh moment

bruh moment said:


> ftr skylar and i mentioned having a badge theory at some point earlier on
> the theory was that mafia doesn't hand out badges because they'd be incentivized to just keep badges within their own faction
> 
> -m


why the thinking react tbh


----------



## rari_teh

bruh moment said:


> bruh moment said:
> 
> 
> 
> ftr skylar and i mentioned having a badge theory at some point earlier on
> the theory was that mafia doesn't hand out badges because they'd be incentivized to just keep badges within their own faction
> 
> -m
> 
> 
> 
> why the thinking react tbh
Click to expand...

same reason as myuma


----------



## Mawile

bruh moment said:


> the theory was that mafia doesn't hand out badges because they'd be incentivized to just keep badges within their own faction


i was theorizing that maybe they only give out 1 badge each and have to decide whose badge power is most useful, but this could make sense too


----------



## JackPK

bruh moment said:


> ftr skylar and i mentioned having a badge theory at some point earlier on
> the theory was that mafia doesn't hand out badges because they'd be incentivized to just keep badges within their own faction
> 
> -m


ah, this is different from (but compatible with) my badge theory that I think I mentioned around the same time

I'll wait to share mine bc I think it might still be something that could be useful later (or, worst case scenario, if it's true, it could benefit mafia to hear it)


----------



## rari_teh

Mawile said:


> bruh moment said:
> 
> 
> 
> the theory was that mafia doesn't hand out badges because they'd be incentivized to just keep badges within their own faction
> 
> 
> 
> i was theorizing that maybe they only give out 1 badge each and have to decide whose badge power is most useful, but this could make sense too
Click to expand...

they could also be prohibited from giving the badges to ingroups


----------



## bruh moment

rari_teh said:


> they could also be prohibited from giving the badges to ingroups


but then they'd be obligated to help town?
-m


----------



## rari_teh

bruh moment said:


> rari_teh said:
> 
> 
> 
> they could also be prohibited from giving the badges to ingroups
> 
> 
> 
> but then they'd be obligated to help town?
> -m
Click to expand...

this would imply the existence of outgroups tbh


----------



## bruh moment

bruh moment said:


> ftr skylar and i mentioned having a badge theory at some point earlier on
> the theory was that mafia doesn't hand out badges because they'd be incentivized to just keep badges within their own faction
> 
> -m


to expand on this a bit, if we look at this from the bird's eye view of the game design, the badge mechanic is interesting because you're basically empowering other players based on trust.  however, this doesn't really work with the mafia—due to their information advantage, they'd essentially just be receiving a free buff with each death they experience, which seems a bit strange/unbalanced.  it seems more likely to us that mafia can't give each other badges, but that they _do_ have powerful abilities that are activated if they manage to dupe town into giving them some.  like, obviously there's no way of knowing this for sure, but it does just sort of seem to Make Sense from that game design perspective?

as mewt said, this is part of what made us so suspicious of tofu, since getting mixed up about badge distribution specifically fit into this theory _really_ well, given that mafia would have to play it by ear here since they're excluded from this mechanic.
-q


----------



## Mawile

bruh moment said:


> but then they'd be obligated to help town?
> -m


well if they don't choose someone to send them to, it would be randomized to town anyway


----------



## bruh moment

Mawile said:


> bruh moment said:
> 
> 
> 
> but then they'd be obligated to help town?
> -m
> 
> 
> 
> well if they don't choose someone to send them to, it would be randomized to town anyway
Click to expand...

that's my point
they don't have the option to just take them to the grave
so it would almost inevitably benefit town
-m


----------



## JackPK

JackPK said:


> bruh moment said:
> 
> 
> 
> ftr skylar and i mentioned having a badge theory at some point earlier on
> the theory was that mafia doesn't hand out badges because they'd be incentivized to just keep badges within their own faction
> 
> -m
> 
> 
> 
> ah, this is different from (but compatible with) my badge theory that I think I mentioned around the same time
> 
> I'll wait to share mine bc I think it might still be something that could be useful later (or, worst case scenario, if it's true, it could benefit mafia to hear it)
Click to expand...

actually, y'know what, let me take a proactive step to try to test my theory

@Negrek if you're still around, how many badges do you dispense upon death

seeing how she flips tonight will determine how her answer affects my theory


----------



## Mawile

bruh moment said:


> Mawile said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bruh moment said:
> 
> 
> 
> but then they'd be obligated to help town?
> -m
> 
> 
> 
> well if they don't choose someone to send them to, it would be randomized to town anyway
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> that's my point
> they don't have the option to just take them to the grave
> so it would almost inevitably benefit town
> -m
Click to expand...

like if they were already forced to give them to someone outside of the ingroup, then wouldn't it be preferable to choose someone who says "my badge ability isn't very good" than to have it rand onto someone who has a stronger ability


----------



## bruh moment

Mawile said:


> like if they were already forced to give them to someone outside of the ingroup, then wouldn't it be preferable to choose someone who says "my badge ability isn't very good" than to have it rand onto someone who has a stronger ability


i mean, if that's indeed the case, then yeah that would be optimal

probably going to disengage from this game for a while tbh, it's me(wtini!) so i'll likely not fully be sticking to that but i won't be following as closely for the next chunk of the phase. ping if y'all need anything
-m


----------



## rari_teh

since discussion seems to have died down, i’m posting an updated tierlist, loosely ordered within tiers


Spoiler: da tierlist



*owo*
rari

*^w^*
ysa
blu
ultracool
bruh
rnp

*uwu*
jack
myuma
vm
tofu
mawile
stryke

*>w>*
koko

*nwn*
negrek

*?w?*
zm


----------



## M&F

*24 hours left!*

running vote count
Negrek (2): rari_teh (#852), RedneckPhoenix (#858)
JackPK (1): Vipera Magnifica


----------



## Negrek

Sorry for wigging out earlier. I don't know to what extent I'll be able to participate in this game, but I'll do my best.

In general, @rari_teh , I think you really just don't like the way I play the game. We seem to have fundamentally different ideas about how to go about winning--in particular, I prefer more information in the open sooner rather than later, while I think you prefer to keep things quiet for as long as possible. Obviously, public information is accessible to the Mafia as well as to Town, so you have to be judicious about what you reveal, but in a role madness game I think a lot of Town power comes out of the ability to compare notes and force the Mafia to make claims that can then be discredited based on the abilities on Town's side. The Town has a huge advantage over the Mafia in terms of the number and variety of night powers at their disposal, but to take advantage of that Town needs to compare notes and work together to entrap the Mafia.

Yes, I'm going to ask people how their roles work. I'm not pressing people to disclose their roles if they're not comfortable doing so; if they do make a claim about their role, I'm trying to understand how these roles (allegedly) function so that Town can figure out how to use them to our advantage. For example, the specifics of Tofu's claimed power matter a lot for how it can be used, e.g. the fact that they can choose new targets opens up the ability to e.g. get an extra inspection off, if we end up with a confirmed cop, while on the flip side the fact that it doesn't inform Tofu of the copied ability makes it a lot less useful for confirming any role that doesn't directly return a mod message. Being exact about role powers leaves less wiggle room for Mafia to hide if they make a fakeclaim, since they may not have thought through the implications of the role they made up, and it leaves them less leeway to go "oops, I didn't realize it doesn't work like X" if later on something happens that contradicts what they said. In RNP's case, I wanted to determine what utility was actually left in his (fake) ability--as he described it, it has the most utility if the mafia don't know what's coming and might not all target him, but even if they know what's up, the utility isn't _zero_. They would still be forced between targeting him with everything or letting RNP know who they all were. Like, if it was possible to get a doc on him and activate that power, we'd be guaranteed either a no-kill night or the identity of all the Mafia, which would put the mafia in a rough spot even though they'd be able to make an informed decision about what they wanted to do. I wanted to know flavor info because it struck me as, shall we say, a rather odd claim, and again one area people screw up fakeclaims is by coming up with something that seems out of place with the rest of their role; MF usually puts in a lot of work to make player roles thematically coherent. In general, once someone has made a claim about their role, I think it's more advantageous to Town to get information on how exactly it works because, again, Town has much more power than Mafia to manipulate what happens at night. Understanding these interactions is going to be more useful to Town than to Mafia and greatly increases our ability to plan.

I know that this style of play is considered out of vogue these days, to the extent that some people apparently consider focusing on mechanics _at all_ anti-Town behavior. But, like... this sort of game is all about the mechanics. That's what I'm here for. And, frankly, given the performance of Town factions recently, forgive me if I'm not convinced that trying to pick apart people's posts and argue about whether they sound slightly different this game than they did that one time they were Mafia is actually a more effective Town strategy than playing the way I've always played. I'm trying to understand what's going on in the game so I can find contradictions, find ways to verify or refute people's claims, and take control of the night phase.

I understand if you don't want to elaborate on any mechanical information you might have that leads you to suspect me, but without that there's really nothing else for me to say. Although if there's something specific I didn't address to you satisfaction, feel free to bring it up; I probably just missed it.

--

Right now the people I feel worst about are Mr. Ultracool and RNP. Some of Ultracool's behavior yesterday seemed kind of odd, but watcher is a very powerful role that I absolutely wouldn't want to lose through a mislynch. The fact that he decided to watch himself despite people pointing out how his plan made no sense is _very_ odd, and makes me a bit worried that he's playing his own game over there; we've seen multiple abilities that appear to depend on whether or not someone visits you in the night, so he might have simply been trying to discourage people from targeting him in order to gain some kind of advantage. I'm not at the point of pushing to lynch yet, but if he watched himself again tonight or did something else bizarre, I absolutely would.

Meanwhile, RNP obviously made something up yesterday. It's possible he has some amazing ability that will be a huge benefit to Town if he gets enough badges and was fabricating this exciting power to get everyone to give him badges without revealing his real abilities, but I don't like the way he's gone about it. There's a whole lot of effort wasted on discussing his fakeclaim, and I think if he were Town, he could have come up with a better way to  As I mentioned yesterday, I'm also uncomfortable with the parallels between his claim and Zori's, especially now given that Zori flipped third party.

If you asked me to lynch someone on the spot, I would probably flip a coin to pick between one of those two; I keep flip-flopping on which I feel worse about. Those are two people where I don't feel like I understand how what they're doing is working towards a Town win.

--



JackPK said:


> Negrek said:
> 
> 
> 
> Okay, sorry. I don't know if I'll be able to return to actually play later, but obviously I can't stop thinking about this and at least I can clear up one thing. I killed Herbe last night, using Alakazam's psyshock.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Negrek said:
> 
> 
> 
> Ugh again, I should mention that I'm a JOAT, not a vigilante, and that's why Zori's claim didn't seem immediately improbable to me, before anyone brings that up. But now I really am putting the laptop away.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> What made you decide to use your kill power when you did, and on whom you did?
> 
> Assuming you are telling the truth about being JOAT, I want to take this opportunity to head off any potential "overcurious" folks and say you probably should not share exactly what your other JOAT powers are besides the kill, and maybe not even how many you have overall, to avoid helping mafia to strategize.
Click to expand...

This one honestly seemed like a no-brainer to me? Like, I see zero reason why a Town player would ever claim third-party, so I felt like Herbe 99.99% was indeed 3p. My reading of the Town win condition is that we need to eliminate all non-Town, since I'm used to seeing "scum" used to collectively refer to any non-Town players, as distinct from the Mafia, a specific non-Town faction. So, obviously, we would have needed to deal with Herbe at some point anyway. I know bruh is tired of talking about this, and I agree the specific meaning isn't important to discuss right now; I bring it up only because it informed my reasoning. I wouldn't generally be okay with leaving a confirmed third-party player to just hang out, because at very best them pursuing their wincon would be neutral to town, and often 3p wincons are actively anti-town, but like, if we actively have to get rid of them to win... away they go.

Additionally, I knew that rari was going to come for me in the next day phase, and so holding onto vig power in hopes of getting a better shot later seemed like an unwise move. Better to at least do something while I had the chance than hope that I lived and also saw a better opportunity later.



JackPK said:


> JackPK said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bruh moment said:
> 
> 
> 
> ftr skylar and i mentioned having a badge theory at some point earlier on
> the theory was that mafia doesn't hand out badges because they'd be incentivized to just keep badges within their own faction
> 
> -m
> 
> 
> 
> ah, this is different from (but compatible with) my badge theory that I think I mentioned around the same time
> 
> I'll wait to share mine bc I think it might still be something that could be useful later (or, worst case scenario, if it's true, it could benefit mafia to hear it)
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> actually, y'know what, let me take a proactive step to try to test my theory
> 
> @Negrek if you're still around, how many badges do you dispense upon death
> 
> seeing how she flips tonight will determine how her answer affects my theory
Click to expand...

One

Although consider not seeing how I flip and go after some actual scum instead.

--

Also, apropos of nothing, I can confirm that Myuma was telling the truth about her ability to give people the power to send posthumous messages; she used it on me last night.


----------



## Stryke

The only thing I have to contribute to discussion is a picture of a cool bug I saw once


----------



## RedneckPhoenix

HAH negrek trying to pin blame on me


----------



## RedneckPhoenix

how did you know rari was "gonna come for you" friend negrek


----------



## rari_teh

Negrek said:


> I understand if you don't want to elaborate on any mechanical information you might have that leads you to suspect me, but without that there's really nothing else for me to say. Although if there's something specific I didn't address to you satisfaction, feel free to bring it up; I probably just missed it.


thank you so much for the insight. i’d really rather not elaborate at the moment on the mech information i have that makes me still suspect you, but i believe the amount of effort you put into your reasoning and the genuine frustration you seem to be experiencing are extremely hard to fake as mafia. i think i now understand your line of reasoning as town here, even though i do not subscribe to it at all. i must confess that after you claimed joat i really didn’t want to come to the conclusion that you were town because the implications otherwise would be either a bit otherworldly or quite scary, but. i am increasingly afraid that i’ve made a clown out of myself. *unvote* for now, but i’m still keeping an eye.

if you are indeed town, i’m sorry for the tunnel :<



Negrek said:


> Additionally, I knew that rari was going to come for me in the next day phase


this sounds so ominous omg. sorry again



Negrek said:


> Also, apropos of nothing, I can confirm that Myuma was telling the truth about her ability to give people the power to send posthumous messages; she used it on me last night.


@ミ☆ ᴍyᴜᴍᴀ can you confirm this?


----------



## JackPK

I am satisfied by Negrek's replies to my questions. I do not want to yeet her toDay anymore.



Stryke said:


> The only thing I have to contribute to discussion is a picture of a cool bug I saw once


is this gonna be a get stickbugged meme


----------



## Mawile

Stryke said:


> The only thing I have to contribute to discussion is a picture of a cool bug I saw once


can i see the bug please


----------



## Mawile

RedneckPhoenix said:


> how did you know rari was "gonna come for you" friend negrek


i assume because rari voted Negrek right at the end of day 1?


----------



## Stryke

Mawile said:


> Stryke said:
> 
> 
> 
> The only thing I have to contribute to discussion is a picture of a cool bug I saw once
> 
> 
> 
> can i see the bug please
Click to expand...


----------



## bruh moment

RedneckPhoenix said:


> how did you know rari was "gonna come for you" friend negrek


----------



## RedneckPhoenix

haha get it it's funny bc homestuck


----------



## bruh moment

RedneckPhoenix said:


> haha get it it's funny bc homestuck


lol ok, fine
the actual answer is that rari literally cased negrek at EoD (plus the vote, as mawile mentioned)
they had a whole interaction!!!
-m


----------



## bruh moment

it’s not homestuck actually, it’s from sherlock.
-q


----------



## RedneckPhoenix

i still don't see why that's supposed to make negrek more towny but you're gonna not be in the mood for talking again if i press it so


----------



## rari_teh

i’ve been rethinking about stuff in general and. i think i have a few mech questions here.

@Mawile and @Negrek, considering past MFia, do you think stryke’s claim of his powers being unknown to him is believable?

@MampersandF, could you, would you clarify what exactly do you mean by ‘scum’ in our wincon? as in. mafia or not town?

sorry for pinging y’all


----------



## RedneckPhoenix

i'm gonna go play bideo bames i'll take another look at iso's when i'm done


----------



## RedneckPhoenix

rari_teh said:


> i’ve been rethinking about stuff in general and. i think i have a few mech questions here.
> 
> @Mawile and @Negrek, considering past MFia, do you think stryke’s claim of his powers being unknown to him is believable?
> 
> @MampersandF, could you, would you clarify what exactly do you mean by ‘scum’ in our wincon? as in. mafia or not town?
> 
> sorry for pinging y’all


stryke's just being a moron he's like this all the time


----------



## bruh moment

RedneckPhoenix said:


> i still don't see why that's supposed to make negrek more towny but you're gonna not be in the mood for talking again if i press it so


we didn't say that that specifically made negrek more towny tbh, i was just replying to your question. it was fairly clear why negrek thought rari was going to 'come for' her
-m


----------



## bruh moment

also hahaha that wasn't why i was ragequitting, you're fine
-m


----------



## RedneckPhoenix

bruh moment said:


> it’s not homestuck actually, it’s from sherlock.
> -q


yknow i think if we combined the dna from you hydreigon and stryke we'd be able to make the unfunniest human being in existence


----------



## bruh moment

RedneckPhoenix said:


> bruh moment said:
> 
> 
> 
> it’s not homestuck actually, it’s from sherlock.
> -q
> 
> 
> 
> yknow i think if we combined the dna from you hydreigon and stryke we'd be able to make the unfunniest human being in existence
Click to expand...

go play bideo bames man


----------



## M&F

rari_teh said:


> @MampersandF, could you, would you clarify what exactly do you mean by ‘scum’ in our wincon? as in. mafia or not town?


I cannot publically clarify anything about anyone's wincon, but I'll give you this much for free: in the mafia lexicon I'm familiar with, "scum" means any player whose victory conditons are directly opposed to those of town and/or must be killed by town in order for town to win. this includes some types of third-party, like serial killers and aliens, but not others, like survivors and certain variants of lovers


----------



## bruh moment

(exhales) i was kind of depressed that herbe died after realizing that mafia wincon was maybe related to all living players, because i was like, oh shit what if we rose the mafia ratio for free, but now..... i vibe 
-m


----------



## bruh moment

um, to be clear, i'm still depressed that herbe died because like. my lad. but in the ~game~ sense ... this sucks less
also if there's a third 3p flip at some point i'll just be like. Yeet
-m


----------



## Mawile

rari_teh said:


> @Mawile and @Negrek, considering past MFia, do you think stryke’s claim of his powers being unknown to him is believable?


i skimmed a bunch of old role PMs from old MFias and i don't think i saw anything like that


----------



## bruh moment

Mawile said:


> i skimmed a bunch of old role PMs from old MFias and i don't think i saw anything like that


to clarify beyond "it wasn't used previously," is it like ... weirder than roles here?
-m


----------



## Mawile

bruh moment said:


> Mawile said:
> 
> 
> 
> i skimmed a bunch of old role PMs from old MFias and i don't think i saw anything like that
> 
> 
> 
> to clarify beyond "it wasn't used previously," is it like ... weirder than roles here?
> -m
Click to expand...

well usually people at least knew what their actions are beyond a name, so i would say it's weirder


----------



## rari_teh

Mawile said:


> rari_teh said:
> 
> 
> 
> @Mawile and @Negrek, considering past MFia, do you think stryke’s claim of his powers being unknown to him is believable?
> 
> 
> 
> i skimmed a bunch of old role PMs from old MFias and i don't think i saw anything like that
Click to expand...

thanks king. hmmm. did any past MFia have a town-vs-3p setup with no mafia faction?


----------



## Mawile

rari_teh said:


> Mawile said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rari_teh said:
> 
> 
> 
> @Mawile and @Negrek, considering past MFia, do you think stryke’s claim of his powers being unknown to him is believable?
> 
> 
> 
> i skimmed a bunch of old role PMs from old MFias and i don't think i saw anything like that
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> thanks king. hmmm. did any past MFia have a town-vs-3p setup with no mafia faction?
Click to expand...

trainer class pokechoice did it


----------



## bruh moment

Mawile said:


> well usually people at least knew what their actions are beyond a name, so i would say it's weirder


i'm asking about the spirit/bastardiness of mfia tbh!
-m


----------



## rari_teh

Mawile said:


> rari_teh said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mawile said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rari_teh said:
> 
> 
> 
> @Mawile and @Negrek, considering past MFia, do you think stryke’s claim of his powers being unknown to him is believable?
> 
> 
> 
> i skimmed a bunch of old role PMs from old MFias and i don't think i saw anything like that
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> thanks king. hmmm. did any past MFia have a town-vs-3p setup with no mafia faction?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> trainer class pokechoice did it
Click to expand...

hmmmm! let’s see how next Night transpires, shall we… thanks a lot!


----------



## Mawile

bruh moment said:


> Mawile said:
> 
> 
> 
> well usually people at least knew what their actions are beyond a name, so i would say it's weirder
> 
> 
> 
> i'm asking about the spirit/bastardiness of mfia tbh!
> -m
Click to expand...

hmmmmmm not sure tbh, the best answer i can give is just "i haven't seen anything like it from any of the other ones i looked through"
it seems a little Extra Bastardy to stryke tho, whereas other ones with Weird Twists have had it be gamewide stuff like "oops! no mafia" and "oops! two mafias"


----------



## rari_teh

shall we science™? *stryke*


----------



## Mawile

hey stryke
do you know your alignment or was that redacted too lmao


----------



## bruh moment

we shan’t tbh
-q


----------



## bruh moment

stryke seems like the easiest mislynch of all time tbh. i agree that his claim is weird but i don’t really see any reason to jump to assuming it’s scummy, and if he’s telling the truth there’s basically nothing further he can do to defend himself. seems like a wagon the mafia would love. odds aren’t bad that he’s town imo and we don’t get very much from his flip if it’s green
-q


----------



## rari_teh

bruh moment said:


> stryke seems like the easiest mislynch of all time tbh. i agree that his claim is weird but i don’t really see any reason to jump to assuming it’s scummy, and if he’s telling the truth there’s basically nothing further he can do to defend himself. seems like a wagon the mafia would love. odds aren’t bad that he’s town imo and we don’t get very much from his flip if it’s green
> -q


i understand your concern and odds are i’ll probably hop off later in the Day, but i’m having a hunch here

@Stryke: you said here that both your badge powers are locked. were you given an explanation of how can you unlock them? no need to tell how


----------



## rari_teh

rari_teh said:


> @Stryke: you said here that both your badge powers are locked. were you given an explanation of how can you unlock them? no need to tell how


i’m a blind idiot. you were, and you said so in the post. hm.


----------



## Stryke

rari_teh said:


> bruh moment said:
> 
> 
> 
> stryke seems like the easiest mislynch of all time tbh. i agree that his claim is weird but i don’t really see any reason to jump to assuming it’s scummy, and if he’s telling the truth there’s basically nothing further he can do to defend himself. seems like a wagon the mafia would love. odds aren’t bad that he’s town imo and we don’t get very much from his flip if it’s green
> -q
> 
> 
> 
> i understand your concern and odds are i’ll probably hop off later in the Day, but i’m having a hunch here
> 
> @Stryke: you said here that both your badge powers are locked. were you given an explanation of how can you unlock them? no need to tell how
Click to expand...

Easy. I gotta die


----------



## rari_teh

MampersandF said:


> -Zero Moment started out as vanilla townie, but whilst dead, had the power to revive himself as a serial killer. He had both a regular killing power and a one-shot power to make himself deathproof for the night and following Day.


sure makes me think


----------



## Stryke

I don't really mind if a lynchtrain starts for me because it means I finally get to find out what I do. It would kinda suck for town though, because, y'know, you'd lose a townie, so idk. Plus, aliens are a thing that exists too, so I'm sure the act of me saying "I don't care if I'm lynched" will naturally bring on suspicion, but c'est la vie. I guess what I'm trying to say is I don't mind if I stay alive or if I die


----------



## bruh moment

rari_teh said:


> MampersandF said:
> 
> 
> 
> -Zero Moment started out as vanilla townie, but whilst dead, had the power to revive himself as a serial killer. He had both a regular killing power and a one-shot power to make himself deathproof for the night and following Day.
> 
> 
> 
> sure makes me think
Click to expand...

is there actually something stryke's said/done or are we just, operating under this assumption
-m


----------



## rari_teh

i’m sure being flaky tonight eh
*unvote*


----------



## rari_teh

bruh moment said:


> rari_teh said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> MampersandF said:
> 
> 
> 
> -Zero Moment started out as vanilla townie, but whilst dead, had the power to revive himself as a serial killer. He had both a regular killing power and a one-shot power to make himself deathproof for the night and following Day.
> 
> 
> 
> sure makes me think
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> is there actually something stryke's said/done or are we just, operating under this assumption
> -m
Click to expand...

he claims to not know what his powers are and they are only activated when he dies; mawile said that MF is known to reuse roles; there is a distinct possibility that there is no real mafia faction in this game


----------



## Negrek

RedneckPhoenix said:


> how did you know rari was "gonna come for you" friend negrek


rari_teh voted for me at the end of the past day and indicated that I was their biggest scumread outside of Zori. If Zori had flipped Town that opinion might have shifted, but since they turned out to be 3p I figured rari would have the same feeling at the start of the next day.



rari_teh said:


> if you are indeed town, i’m sorry for the tunnel :<


No need to apologize for playing the game. I reacted poorly, and that's on me.



rari_teh said:


> i’ve been rethinking about stuff in general and. i think i have a few mech questions here.
> 
> @Mawile and @Negrek, considering past MFia, do you think stryke’s claim of his powers being unknown to him is believable?


I don't recall MF doing this before, and it is a bit bastardy, but as this game was advertised to contain "shenanigans and borderline bastardry," I think it's within the realm of possibility that it's Stryke's real role, yeah.

The fact that his powers apparently unlock when he dies makes me wary of going for a lynch, because if he's 3p/Mafia then welp, we've just changed him from "potential threat" to "active threat." Obviously if we suspect that's the case we'll have to deal with him at some point, but for right now I have him firmly in the "deal with later" category, unless maybe we could clear or implicate someone else based on his flip. Of course if he is 3p/Mafia and needs to survive, he's crafted a brilliant defense right here.


----------



## bruh moment

*tofu*


----------



## bruh moment

rari_teh said:


> he claims to not know what his powers are and they are only activated when he dies; mawile said that MF is known to reuse roles; there is a distinct possibility that there is no real mafia faction in this game


ok tbh


bruh moment said:


> i’m really not going to be taking any spec about “what if actually no mafia!? :000” seriously and i’m going to be side-eyeing anyone that does.


even on the off-chance that it ends up being the case
i don't want to mess around assuming that that's the setup when it's d2 and n1 had a normal killcount (i.e. consistent with there being A Mafia) and for now i am simply going to play the scumhunting game tbh.
on the bright side even if it ends up being town vs. indeps i get to vibe because we're already down 2 3ps

for the record, if i humor the possibility that the setup is reused, then actually looking at trainer class shows that each 3p's wincon was "you win when you're the last standing" (not all that consistent with herbe's claim) and _that_ was why it counted as 'scum' where 'scum' = 'factions whose wincons are antithetical to town's'
-m


----------



## bruh moment

anyway there's actually no point in not just saying this
we have mechanical confirmation that there exist mafia-aligned players tbh tbh
-m


----------



## rari_teh

feel free to side-eye me as much as you want tbh. i’m sure hiding something vital that makes me seriously doubt the existence of a mafia faction. but this thing is not my alignment.

depending on how N2 plays out you’ll find out what it is toMorrow.


----------



## rari_teh

bruh moment said:


> we have mechanical confirmation that there exist mafia-aligned players tbh tbh


t-this changes a lot.


----------



## bruh moment

bruh moment said:


> anyway there's actually no point in not just saying this
> we have mechanical confirmation that there exist mafia-aligned players tbh tbh
> -m


or, well, i guess it's possible that it's a really bizarre red herring but. point is our role pm has the word "mafia-aligned" in it, in a context that makes me pretty comfortable just saying that it's confirmation


----------



## Mawile

bruh moment said:


> "mafia-aligned"


does it happen to be in the context that you're mafia


----------



## bruh moment

rari_teh said:


> bruh moment said:
> 
> 
> 
> we have mechanical confirmation that there exist mafia-aligned players tbh tbh
> 
> 
> 
> t-this changes a lot.
Click to expand...

 technically the net change is zero, it changes that anyone thought anything had changed. 
-1


----------



## bruh moment

Mawile said:


> bruh moment said:
> 
> 
> 
> "mafia-aligned"
> 
> 
> 
> does it happen to be in the context that you're mafia
Click to expand...







yes


----------



## bruh moment

bruh moment said:


> -1


typing is hard huh skylar?



rari_teh said:


> feel free to side-eye me as much as you want tbh. i’m sure hiding something vital that makes me seriously doubt the existence of a mafia faction. but this thing is not my alignment.


lol. immunity desu?

also i keep trying to post and seeing "you must wait 15 seconds" and going what the FUCK, fifteen seconds? only to see a thanatos gif. kids, take it from me, never agree to a hydra tbh
-m


----------



## bruh moment

HAHA PAGETOP


----------



## rari_teh

bruh moment said:


> bruh moment said:
> 
> 
> 
> -1
> 
> 
> 
> typing is hard huh skylar?
Click to expand...

i think she meant that she is number one



bruh moment said:


> rari_teh said:
> 
> 
> 
> feel free to side-eye me as much as you want tbh. i’m sure hiding something vital that makes me seriously doubt the existence of a mafia faction. but this thing is not my alignment.
> 
> 
> 
> lol. immunity desu?
Click to expand...

nope and that’s all i’m going to say


----------



## Mawile

bruh moment said:


> thanatos


oh i get it, you're softing a mafia killpower role by saying thanatos instead of thanos


----------



## bruh moment

Mawile said:


> oh i get it, you're softing a mafia killpower role by saying thanatos instead of thanos


im sleeby


----------



## Mawile

also imagine having important information in your role PM that hints at other parts of the setup. couldn't be me


----------



## RedneckPhoenix

i'm still of the opinion that stryke is a lying asshole

marlon has likr 20 lines total


----------



## RedneckPhoenix

that said, marlon is, apparently, according to the wiki, almost completely oblivious

i honestly forgot he existed bc he just sorta sits there and eats solar beams all day


----------



## rari_teh

i’ve done a number of isos and i’ve come to the conclusion that i don’t have real scumleans anymore. so i can’t be the change i want to see in this world.

guess i’ll have to wait and see what wagons will arise by tomorrow.


----------



## RedneckPhoenix

i need 2 badges please i'll explain why later


----------



## RedneckPhoenix

get over your dumbass grudge hydrei i have to save the town


----------



## RedneckPhoenix

maybe save is an overstatement but i do have something important to do


----------



## Zero Moment

rari_teh said:


> MampersandF said:
> 
> 
> 
> -Zero Moment started out as vanilla townie, but whilst dead, had the power to revive himself as a serial killer. He had both a regular killing power and a one-shot power to make himself deathproof for the night and following Day.
> 
> 
> 
> sure makes me think
Click to expand...

wow holy shit this is an old-ass game


----------



## JackPK

well if no one else is gonna come forward with any ideas for a wagon now that negrek's has collapsed, I guess I'll be bold and offer something

I tried ISOing a handful of the quieter/less present folks, and some of Bluwii's posts jump out as a bit... off to me? 

most of them are his usual -- either his trademark hydration reminders (appreciated but not alignment indicative), LAMIST-ish (e.g. #80, #120, #573), or follow-the-leader-y/echo-y/trying-to-blend-in (e.g. #109, #146, #278), all of which are easy to do as either town or scum so they're not very alignment indicative. 

but a couple of posts that don't fit those patterns are wigging me out a little:



Bluwiikoon said:


> VM does your role stop your target from making an action, or is it solely a redirect? :O If you don't wanna disclose that, that's fine too!


I may be reading too much into this but this feels like the same kind of infofishing that rari accused Negrek of. This isn't something VM implied at all prior to this, so why would this possibility come to mind at all? Is this a paranoid mafia fearing a bigger threat than was stated, and trying to verify if their fear is right or wrong?



Bluwiikoon said:


> Tofu, are you sure you're not misreading your PM or something and that your power doesn't give you like, additional extra badges or something?





Bluwiikoon said:


> Oh, wait!
> 
> 
> Tofu said:
> 
> 
> 
> Idk it just said "colorful scatter" was the move and I give away my badges through it. It made sense to me when I read it because it was like, I dead but my Pokemon isn't, so it helped me out? Maybe it's just to balance the power of my other role by making my Pokemon's role not really do anything, idk M&F's mind.
> 
> 
> 
> Are you saying you can redistribute extra badges that you've received from other people?
Click to expand...

In retrospect, these two posts feel almost TMI/openwolfy in how strongly they feel like an attempt to help a teammate cover up a questionable claim that was coming under more scrutiny than expected (which, in this reading, would implicate Tofu as well). There was nothing in Tofu's posts at that time that indicated anything like what Bluwii is suggesting (especially that discongruous "are you saying...?" when that's clearly not what she was saying), but sure enough Tofu ran with it.

On the other hand, one more not-really-indicative post that nevertheless I am slightly inclined to read as towny when I overthink it? For completion's sake, though:


Bluwiikoon said:


> Pretty sure I'm gonna be Zzzing past eod time unfortunately, so *Zori *for lack of any better ideas :( Amphy nooooo!!


This vote was placed only a few hours before EOD, when Zori already had a wagon of 8 votes. I would expect mafia to try to bandwagon sooner so they look less like they're jumping on an established bandwagon, so this maybe leans town. (On the other hand, if mafia tried to kill Zori n0 and it didn't work for whatever reason, waiting this long could be mafia-ish if they were worried she was alien and they'd activated her? That's a lot of ifs though.)

I don't feel confidently in voting for *Bluwiikoon* but we have to press somewhere and this feels like a reasonable avenue to start


----------



## RedneckPhoenix

no we're still lynching negrek. fall off the wagon and you die

@Stryke  i'm calling in that favor you owe me. vote negrek


----------



## rari_teh

JackPK said:


> In retrospect, these two posts feel almost TMI/openwolfy in how strongly they feel like an attempt to help a teammate cover up a questionable claim that was coming under more scrutiny than expected (which, in this reading, would implicate Tofu as well). There was nothing in Tofu's posts at that time that indicated anything like what Bluwii is suggesting (especially that discongruous "are you saying...?" when that's clearly not what she was saying), but sure enough Tofu ran with it.


tbqh as w/w i’d expect him to give her this idea in scumchat, not in public. giving her ideas inthread only undermines her claim if she runs with it… which is what happened. i think blu is >rand v here, but.


----------



## rari_teh

er, not to imply that tofu is lying. i am still pocketed. though i think tofu has higher chance of being scum than blu here


----------



## qenya

bruh moment said:


> anyway there's actually no point in not just saying this
> we have mechanical confirmation that there exist mafia-aligned players tbh tbh
> -m


...tfw kyeugh left a  react to this


----------



## qenya

bruh moment said:


> or, well, i guess it's possible that it's a really bizarre red herring but. point is our role pm has the word "mafia-aligned" in it, in a context that makes me pretty comfortable just saying that it's confirmation


hmm. this is good information to have, thank you.


----------



## qenya

(in the interests of full disclosure: pre-d1, i asked mampers an unrelated rules question in which i tacitly assumed a mafia faction existed. her response answered my question but didn't provide any evidence one way or the other on the existence of a mafia faction.)

i'm not really here yet because my brother wants me to craft some stuff for him in acnh, but the gist of my posts today is probably something like: i'd rather yeet tofu than negrek, especially after neg's longpost, but not really feeling either and would rather search elsewhere. currently thinking about vm or blu, and definitely agree i'd like to hear more from blu. currently roughly reading rari & skytini as either v/v or w/w, and more likely v than w.


----------



## qenya

kokorico said:


> probably something like


probably _*going to be_ something like


----------



## haneko

Can confirm I targeted Negrek last night


----------



## haneko

I’m going to decide on who to vote for later, I can’t see any good options at the moment. I’m willing to believe Negrek is town. 

A lot of important events from the past day seemed to have gone right over my head, so I’m going to go catch up with that


----------



## Ys_

Ok here's a theory. Either Negrek and bm are scumbuddies and they're powerwolfing or maybe bm is right and it's Tofu and maybe Blu and vm (and rari and Jack based on people who defended Tofu or w ? . I reread some of Tofu's posts and they do give pause. Like the role PM correction people mentioned with blu's help. But wouldn't w!Blu nudge w!Tofu about her pm through the scumchat? Plus bm said it was nai? And do Skylar and mewtini tunnel as wolves? rari seemed to think they were unnecessarily tunneling but didn't scumread them based on that. Also I was thinking a lot of yesterday's discussion just felt like sidetracks. Like the discussion of whether there's mafia or not (because there hasn't been any mafs dead yet? But only three people have died. Isn't it too early to speculate like that based on only 3 deaths?) hmm.


----------



## Ys_

Ysabel said:


> Either Negrek and bm are scumbuddies and they're powerwolfing or maybe bm is right and it's Tofu and maybe Blu and vm (and rari and Jack based on people who defended Tofu or w*ere unwilling to vote for her*


oops. Posted before I finished correcting lol. Anyways, I guess Tofu gives us more info on flip than Negrek so *Tofu*


----------



## Mr. Ultracool

RedneckPhoenix said:


> look it up check if it's an ability
> 
> goes for everyone


Meowine are named after things Team Rocket meowght exclaim while stealing Pokémeown...


----------



## Bluwiikoon

Hi friends! My stomach has been kicking my ass!  I've tried really hard to catch up and I apologise if things have fell out of my brain as a result. My body is giving me a rough time, but all I can do is try!

I understand that my Zori vote yesterday had strange timing, but I'd also like folks to inspect that post very closely! I left a surprise ^^ It's not a very helpful surprise but it was the only feasible time I could get to do that sort of thing due to the rarity of certain letters.

Also, sorry again for the react storm! If anyone wants to bounce stuff off me that might be more helpful for me getting some thoughts in order  As of now, I feel very ???? about Neg admitting to killing Herbe, especially since I feel like she would want to remove someone she perceives as alien as either alignment.


----------



## Ys_

> Pretty sure I'm gonna be Zzzing past eod time unfortunately, so *Zori *for lack of any better ideas :( Amphy nooooo!!


pizza? based on the uppercases? lmao :3

hhh I already made the mistake of bussing mewtini once and still think that tofu being mafia doesn't make sense. Like sure, there's been the inconsistencies but does that make her scum for sure? There's still time to discuss this.. no need to be rash. Also tofu as mafia would implicate a number of people which doesn't make that much sense? Don't know why mafia would try that hard to lynch her but maybe they think she could be a big threat if she used her ability right, kind of like how Mistyx ended up being such a help with her own ability in ooc.

hey blu, how do you feel about koko? since you hydrated with em once (even if it was a brief period of time). Were you able to gain any insight on eir play?

I notice e's been placed low in a few people's tier lists but was never directly addressed.

@kokorico heyy how are you? if you've been reading the thread do you have any reads/thoughts on recent events?


----------



## Stryke

RedneckPhoenix said:


> no we're still lynching negrek. fall off the wagon and you die
> 
> @Stryke  i'm calling in that favor you owe me. vote negrek


What favor


----------



## Bluwiikoon

Hi Ysabel!  I think I would have to reread to fully parse koko in this game, but in Powerplant e was very cautious and careful even when it seemed like Everyone was mafia aligned! (Since the twist was that only Herbe was town). E fakeclaimed at least twice to try to protect ourselves, and would put a lot of thought into eir posts and make particularly long posts.


----------



## Bluwiikoon

(Granted, koko's "longposts" may only seem long to me because paragraphs take up more space on mobile. But still!)


----------



## Tofu

Hey sorry, I'm going to try to catch up on the posts today, so I haven't read them other than seeing Jack vote for Blu. I do think for today I want to vote *Mr. Ultracool*, based on my previous post's reasons and the fact that I want to trust my own reads above any wagons that might come up. I just think UC could be outgroup and have a condition where his death helps mafia, or helps them if they target him, based on his ISO. We're probably going to go kayaking today so I'm sorry if I can't be here to elaborate during the day, but if you are curious, he does mention several times in his ISO wanting to be targeted or killed by mafia, and I think it is/was too early in the game for someone to want to just sacrifice themselves without another motive. I'll try to check in later, but also might be in sleep-land at EOD.


----------



## bruh moment

Ysabel said:


> hhh I already made the mistake of bussing mewtini once and still think that tofu being mafia doesn't make sense.


i’m not sure what you meant, i don’t think bussing was the term intended here?

anyway sorry i keep picking on you/quoting you on this subject lol, it just keeps being the most convenient


> Like sure, there's been the inconsistencies but does that make her scum for sure? There's still time to discuss this.. no need to be rash.


in our logic: yes it makes her >rand scum, at the very least, because the fact that the way she revealed is strongly indicative of some deliberate lie means that, for some reason, there was something being made up -> scum


> Also tofu as mafia would implicate a number of people which doesn't make that much sense?


what do you mean?


> Don't know why mafia would try that hard to lynch her but maybe they think she could be a big threat if she used her ability right, kind of like how Mistyx ended up being such a help with her own ability in ooc.


this is stupid to say but like.
why not simply nightkill her then

-m


----------



## bruh moment

(stupid of me to say, not ysabel)


----------



## bruh moment

tbh call us tunneled or whatever but i’m really >:/ that this was one of the main things that happened yesterDay and that apparently no one else, except for maybe rnp, felt like it was worth going over the timeline and are now just saying “oh there are inconsistencies i guess” or actually TLing tofu coming out of it. and that even when skylar and i went to the lengths we did to lay things out no one is talking to us about it or doing anything beyond skimming our post and then doubting it based on skipping over or misunderstanding things that we’d already discussed

i kind of think that if tofu is v here that at least some mafia would have jumped on or agreed with us since it wouldn’t have been a hard thing to go “oh, this clicks” about and place a vote over. instead i can’t shake the feeling that the resistance/thread attempt to move past the topic is indicative of something

-m


----------



## bruh moment

and like tbh we are all talking past each other more than usual. what that’s indicative of, idk, but it’s bad

omw to get off mobile and reply to other things
-m


----------



## Vipera Magnifica

Was playing MtG with Tofu and ILS and a friend of mine last night and stayed up late; now I'm trying to catch up with posts this morning and my brain is just not capable of processing a lot of information right now.

I'm going to be out kayaking today so I won't be around until before EoD I guess, but I was going to say my suggestion from earlier.

Since we have only lost two self-aligned players and a roleblocker, I think we can reasonably assume there is both a cop and a doctor still alive right now. I can use my power on the cop, if I know who that is, to redirect any actions that target the cop onto me. The doctor, who should stay hidden, can also heal the cop, providing the cop (and, by extension, me) with a layer of protection. This combined strategy can give the cop two layers of protection, allowing them to openly share information with us to allow us to make more informed lynches. This is ultimately the cop's decision whether or not to go along with this strategy, but if they claim now and tell us their inspection results, then we can hopefully yeet correctly today.

Now before anyone shoots this down outright for it requiring the cop to claim - yes, that is the point. Follow the cop is the strategy that I believe will give us the greatest probability of a town victory. Just look at ooctvtm where the cop played a central role in scumhunting vs. any of the other games that resulted in a mafia win. I think my proposal is a good idea even if you don't trust me because all I can do is add a second layer of protection to the cop, whereas the unclaimed doctor will be protecting the cop regardless of my role.

Knowledge is the best weapon that town has at their disposal and a cop that doesn't share their results is a lot less useful to us. I'd prefer we keep the cop alive and have access to their inspection results sooner rather than later so _I'd_ prefer if the cop were to claim so I can start protecting them. I do strongly believe that's in town's best interests but I understand the desire to stay hidden - this is, of course, entirely up to the cop whether or not to go along with this strategy.


----------



## Ys_

bruh moment said:


> Ysabel said:
> 
> 
> 
> hhh I already made the mistake of bussing mewtini once and still think that tofu being mafia doesn't make sense.
> 
> 
> 
> i’m not sure what you meant, i don’t think bussing was the term intended here?
Click to expand...

I meant on snomafia lol sorry for not being clear



> anyway sorry i keep picking on you/quoting you on this subject lol, it just keeps being the most convenient


convenient how?



> Like sure, there's been the inconsistencies but does that make her scum for sure? There's still time to discuss this.. no need to be rash.


in our logic: yes it makes her >rand scum, at the very least, because the fact that the way she revealed is strongly indicative of some deliberate lie means that, for some reason, there was something being made up -> scum[/QUOTE]
Yeah you're definitely right on this. It's hnghhh tbh



> Also tofu as mafia would implicate a number of people which doesn't make that much sense?


what do you mean?[/quote]
well, just thining on if tofu is mafia then who could be her team. As I see it, blu for the reasons already mentioned, how he tried to help her out. It also possibly implicates VM for also defending her or maybe not outright defending but not considering the possibility that she may be maf? And possibly rari for the defense (and tbf the seeming flailing. Which sorry rari but it doesn't look too good :( )


> Don't know why mafia would try that hard to lynch her but maybe they think she could be a big threat if she used her ability right, kind of like how Mistyx ended up being such a help with her own ability in ooc.


this is stupid to say but like.
why not simply nightkill her then
-m
[/QUOTE]
ha good point  I was thining that day would be easiest to mislynch roles they don't want


----------



## Vipera Magnifica

I've said my piece, now I actually won't be around for a few hours. I'll be back before EoD though.


----------



## Mr. Ultracool

*Tofu*

Apparently, the Scaleclaim keeps turning up meowre and meowre inconsistencies in Tfu's ISO...


----------



## bruh moment

Tofu said:


> I just think UC could be outgroup and have a condition where his death helps mafia,


s-so why would you vote to ... have him killed ...


JackPK said:


> In retrospect, these two posts feel almost TMI/openwolfy in how strongly they feel like an attempt to help a teammate cover up a questionable claim


you go on to say that this read would implicate tofu but like ... aren't you TRing her ... in that world, this means nothing from blu
also i agree that this save is weird but it looks bad for tofu before it looks bad for blu tbh, don't really understand why you'd vote here based off of that
-m


----------



## bruh moment

Ysabel said:


> I meant on snomafia lol sorry for not being clear


how was that bussing? we weren't wolves together.
-m


----------



## bruh moment

Vipera Magnifica said:


> Since we have only lost two self-aligned players and a roleblocker


hmm, one question - i think it's still possible for there to exist a normally-functioning (i.e. not passive, as hydrei was (?)) mafia roleblocker. in that case what happens if they target cop and then that roleblock gets Attracted to you?/would that leave cop wide open ... or am i overthinking this
-m


----------



## bruh moment

oh wait, doctor. ok


----------



## Ys_

...
ok nvm not bussing. I meant sheeping? like blindly following someone? (i swear i'm not a doofus but I'm used to a different sort of terms lmao) like that day i followed your mislead that trebek was mafia for wagonomics. And yes, i know it's not 'blindly' when you posted reasons and I don't think those reasons are invalid just not purely scum indicative but eh. I see the points and you probably wouldn't push as hard if you were mafia


----------



## Bluwiikoon

bruh moment said:


> tbh call us tunneled or whatever but i’m really >:/ that this was one of the main things that happened yesterDay and that apparently no one else, except for maybe rnp, felt like it was worth going over the timeline and are now just saying “oh there are inconsistencies i guess” or actually TLing tofu coming out of it. and that even when skylar and i went to the lengths we did to lay things out no one is talking to us about it or doing anything beyond skimming our post and then doubting it based on skipping over or misunderstanding things that we’d already discussed
> 
> i kind of think that if tofu is v here that at least some mafia would have jumped on or agreed with us since it wouldn’t have been a hard thing to go “oh, this clicks” about and place a vote over. instead i can’t shake the feeling that the resistance/thread attempt to move past the topic is indicative of something
> 
> -m


Given your reasonings here, I'm worried now that more and more people are gonna hop on the Tofu wagon now to try to divert suspicion  Like, if Tofu is w then a bus gives them bonus towny points, and if she's v then it absolves them of having tmi?

I think it'll be good to analyse just how the voting plays out, bearing this in mind!

Also mewt forgive me if this is overbearing but you seem a little stressed out today ;o; Please make sure you look after yourself!!


----------



## bruh moment

Ysabel said:


> ok nvm not bussing. I meant sheeping? like blindly following someone?


oh, ok, yeah. bussing is like, when you push your wolf partner under the bus - i.e. lynch them - to gain credibility.
tbh it may not help much but i pretty much was trying to channel my town game there, a lot of the pushes i made were based on things i actually saw (which is why i kept SRing my partner d1, who i genuinely thought looked scummy)
-m


----------



## Ys_

didn't mean to ignore you btw I was just doing irl things. I'll look into Tofu more deeply though and you can tell me any points you wish me to engage on


----------



## bruh moment

Bluwiikoon said:


> Given your reasonings here, I'm worried now that more and more people are gonna hop on the Tofu wagon now to try to divert suspicion  Like, if Tofu is w then a bus gives them bonus towny points, and if she's v then it absolves them of having tmi?


hahaha. well, it doesn't really matter, i think the read already exists whether or not people jump in or not; it was based on the fact that a decent amount of time has already passed



Bluwiikoon said:


> Also mewt forgive me if this is overbearing but you seem a little stressed out today ;o; Please make sure you look after yourself!!


ahahah, thanks! appreciate it - i was tempted to rage about it more but it would be a little AtE-y so i restrained myself
-m


----------



## bruh moment

bruh moment said:


> AtE


er appeal to emotion


----------



## Bluwiikoon

You gotta treat yourself with something nice!!  Mewt always be carrying us in these games


----------



## Tofu

bruh moment said:


> Tofu said:
> 
> 
> 
> I just think UC could be outgroup and have a condition where his death helps mafia,
> 
> 
> 
> s-so why would you vote to ... have him killed ...
Click to expand...

I mentioned why in my previous post (but wasn't yet willing to vote then). He only wants to be killed BY mafia. After thinking some more about this, I don't think it's unreasonable to assume MF made a role where being killed by mafia would be a different condition than being yeeted. Extrapolating on that because it's my only theory and because I have not devoted further mental energy to this game this weekend, I'm still placing my vote there.


----------



## Ys_

bruh moment said:


> Ysabel said:
> 
> 
> 
> Well I was thinking about not asking for badges and the early claim. The way I see it is it's risky. Like RNP's supermiller claim, or because someone could cc her.
> 
> 
> 
> first thing (about the cc) - said this earlier, but we aren't doubting that her role isn't in part real; duplicator makes fine enough sense for mafia to have. in re: the early claim, we talked about this in our other post;
> 
> 
> bruh moment said:
> 
> 
> 
> we think the early claim is sorta towny on its own, but not, like, especially so. and we're very much of the opinion that whatever town points it did win her were cancelled out and then some by this post, where she points to it as evidence of her own towniness. imo "if i'm mafia, why do i do THIS, huh!?" rarely feels good—very LAMIST vibes and i think these thoughts occur to wolves more often than town.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> i also would argue that her comments about the badges are like ... NAI? fwiw the early claim/badgestance are clearly working, and i think it's plausible for scum to say "don't give me badges" if it a) isn't something they need, b) makes them look towny, or c) both.
> 
> sorry if i'm being curt, but i'm honestly getting sort of frustrated because i feel like people aren't really engaging with what we've posted and instead keep glossing over it
> -m
Click to expand...

mkay I think you meant this with the not engaging. Yes, I agree her copycat thing could as well be real as either alignment. Do you think she's possibly hiding her real badge cost ability or that she really doesn't have one? I think it maybe doesn't make sense as either alignment so she probably lied outright? 


bruh moment said:


> general q for the crowd, are we assuming 3p doesn't give out any badges then?


does it matter? 



bruh moment said:


> Ysabel said:
> 
> 
> 
> ok nvm not bussing. I meant sheeping? like blindly following someone?
> 
> 
> 
> oh, ok, yeah. bussing is like, when you push your wolf partner under the bus - i.e. lynch them - to gain credibility.
> tbh it may not help much but i pretty much was trying to channel my town game there, a lot of the pushes i made were based on things i actually saw (which is why i kept SRing my partner d1, who i genuinely thought looked scummy)
> -m
Click to expand...

Oh I see. ty for explaining


----------



## bruh moment

Ysabel said:


> does it matter?


uh, i guess not? it just came up because we had just been talking about seshas giving out badges and people seemed to be assuming 3p distributed them.
and i say later that i'd been thinking tangentially about mafia giving out badges, so the topic was on my mind hehe


Ysabel said:


> Yes, I agree her copycat thing could as well be real as either alignment. Do you think she's possibly hiding her real badge cost ability or that she really doesn't have one? I think it maybe doesn't make sense as either alignment so she probably lied outright?


i'm guessing that she just doesn't have one? also, skylar and i were thinking that maybe she was purposefully avoiding claiming colorful scatter, but then later forgot that she'd omitted mentioning it, and then slipped and said the phrase (considering that she'd at first expressly only claimed a vanilla, unflavored badge distribution thing + her oneshot)
-m


----------



## bruh moment

i'm just having a really hard time believing that she looked at her role pm in enough detail to write, like, honestly overdetailed explanations of her [duplicator] role while somehow completely looking over the supposed mechanics of colorful scatter

-m


----------



## JackPK

bruh moment said:


> JackPK said:
> 
> 
> 
> In retrospect, these two posts feel almost TMI/openwolfy in how strongly they feel like an attempt to help a teammate cover up a questionable claim
> 
> 
> 
> you go on to say that this read would implicate tofu but like ... aren't you TRing her ... in that world, this means nothing from blu
> also i agree that this save is weird but it looks bad for tofu before it looks bad for blu tbh, don't really understand why you'd vote here based off of that
> -m
Click to expand...

I was initially TRing Tofu off my VM-would-notice-something-IRL theory which you and VM later told me not to do... so I'm trying not to do that, which leaves me at null-leaning-SR on both Tofu and Blu

I got to the point where I was writing about the Blu/Tofu posts and honestly considered ripping up everything I had written about Blu and writing about Tofu instead, but it was very late and I had already ISO'd several people and come up with nothing and Blu was the first ISO I found something interesting in, and nobody seemed to have any interest in any wagons at all so I went "3am fuck it, might as well finish this rather than start from scratch on ISOing someone else." As I _thought_ I laid down clearly between the lines (but didn't say explicitly bc I was trying to see how Blu would react under pressure), I was less trying to start a wagon on Blu and more trying to stimulate _some_ kind of discussion that might lead to wagons I would feel comfy with (which might or might not include Blu depending on his reaction).



Bluwiikoon said:


> Given your reasonings here, I'm worried now that more and more people are gonna hop on the Tofu wagon now to try to divert suspicion  Like, if Tofu is w then a bus gives them bonus towny points, and if she's v then it absolves them of having tmi?
> 
> I think it'll be good to analyse just how the voting plays out, bearing this in mind!
> 
> Also mewt forgive me if this is overbearing but you seem a little stressed out today ;o; Please make sure you look after yourself!!


ok and now this post is just further entrenching my Blu/Tofu w/w thoughts



Tofu said:


> Hey sorry, I'm going to try to catch up on the posts today, so I haven't read them other than seeing Jack vote for Blu. I do think for today I want to vote *Mr. Ultracool*, based on my previous post's reasons and the fact that I want to trust my own reads above any wagons that might come up. I just think UC could be outgroup and have a condition where his death helps mafia, or helps them if they target him, based on his ISO. We're probably going to go kayaking today so I'm sorry if I can't be here to elaborate during the day, but if you are curious, he does mention several times in his ISO wanting to be targeted or killed by mafia, and I think it is/was too early in the game for someone to want to just sacrifice themselves without another motive. I'll try to check in later, but also might be in sleep-land at EOD.


I have gone back and forth on my Ultracool reads over the course of the game, but for various reasons (including some gutreads I prefer not to elaborate on at the moment) I am feeling more town-leaning on him lately. _If_ he is town, then his claimed role is pretty strongly valuable, so I don't really like this vote. Could be town disagreeing with my reads or could be mafia openly trying to get a valuable role yeeted.



bruh moment said:


> i kind of think that if tofu is v here that at least some mafia would have jumped on or agreed with us since it wouldn’t have been a hard thing to go “oh, this clicks” about and place a vote over. instead i can’t shake the feeling that the resistance/thread attempt to move past the topic is indicative of something
> 
> -m


Good point.

The preponderance of all of the above things leads me to switch my vote to *Tofu*, but I do still suspect Blu as well.


----------



## bruh moment

Ysabel said:


> hhh I already made the mistake of bussing mewtini once and still think that tofu being mafia doesn't make sense. Like sure, there's been the inconsistencies but does that make her scum for sure?


i know mewt responded to this, but i just wanted to tack on that while we do genuinely believe tofu is w and would prefer to yeet her for that reason above all others, we also think the discussion surrounding her has been pretty weird, and i think there’s a lot to glean from her flip due to that. resolving this just seems like the way to go imo.
-q


----------



## bruh moment

JackPK said:


> ok and now this post is just further entrenching my Blu/Tofu w/w thoughts


i think i understand what you mean, but just in case i don't - can you talk a little more about why?
-m


----------



## JackPK

bruh moment said:


> JackPK said:
> 
> 
> 
> ok and now this post is just further entrenching my Blu/Tofu w/w thoughts
> 
> 
> 
> i think i understand what you mean, but just in case i don't - can you talk a little more about why?
> -m
Click to expand...

feels like he is trying to lay groundwork/sow doubts in advance so that when Tofu flips, he will more easily be able to steer wagonomics discussion in an unfruitful direction (or maybe so he won't even need to steer bc others will do that for him!)


----------



## bruh moment

Spoiler: vote history



*vm / jack 807*
rari / negrek 852
*rnp / negrek 858*
rari / stryke 1080
rari / unvote 1090
*bruh / tofu 1093*
jack / blu 1115
*ysabel / tofu 1126
tofu / ultracool 1133
ultracool / tofu 1141
jack / tofu 1157*


*tofu (4):* bruh #1093, ysabel #1126, ultracool #1141, jack #1157
*ultracool (1):* tofu #1133
*negrek (1):* rnp #858
*jack (1):* vm #807*
*i think this was a joke vote?

-m


----------



## Negrek

Vipera Magnifica said:


> Since we have only lost two self-aligned players and a roleblocker, I think we can reasonably assume there is both a cop and a doctor still alive right now. I can use my power on the cop, if I know who that is, to redirect any actions that target the cop onto me. The doctor, who should stay hidden, can also heal the cop, providing the cop (and, by extension, me) with a layer of protection. This combined strategy can give the cop two layers of protection, allowing them to openly share information with us to allow us to make more informed lynches. This is ultimately the cop's decision whether or not to go along with this strategy, but if they claim now and tell us their inspection results, then we can hopefully yeet correctly today.
> 
> Now before anyone shoots this down outright for it requiring the cop to claim - yes, that is the point. Follow the cop is the strategy that I believe will give us the greatest probability of a town victory. Just look at ooctvtm where the cop played a central role in scumhunting vs. any of the other games that resulted in a mafia win. I think my proposal is a good idea even if you don't trust me because all I can do is add a second layer of protection to the cop, whereas the unclaimed doctor will be protecting the cop regardless of my role.
> 
> Knowledge is the best weapon that town has at their disposal and a cop that doesn't share their results is a lot less useful to us. I'd prefer we keep the cop alive and have access to their inspection results sooner rather than later so _I'd_ prefer if the cop were to claim so I can start protecting them. I do strongly believe that's in town's best interests but I understand the desire to stay hidden - this is, of course, entirely up to the cop whether or not to go along with this strategy.


Ah, now this is the kind of content I like to see!

Unfortunately, in a world where you might be Mafia, I think this is a super bad idea. For example, consider if the Mafia had a strongman... then all Mafia!you would have to do is not use your redirect on the claimed cop, and then the other Mafia strong-shoots them. Super simple. Or imagine that the Mafia have a watcher (maybe even Ultracool). First night they watch the claimed cop, then on the second you redirect the doctor revealed through the watch and another Mafia shoots the cop. Also no good, and there are a variety of different ways for the Mafia to take advantage, depending on the exact combination of abilities they have at their disposal. So I don't see this being a good move unless we were quite confident that you're Town.

In the case that you're Town, though, I think this is pretty solid? I was thinking it could still get messed up if there were another redirector around, but actually I think it would be fine. If there were a redirector _and_ a strongman, then they could simply divert your redirect and shoot the cop through protection, but that's the only issue that's come to mind so far. Does anyone else see problems here? I don't think it's a good idea for the cop to claim now unless they already feel certain VM is Town, but this may be something to keep in mind if we were able to clear him, whether through cop check or otherwise.

I've been trying to think of ways to use your role and haven't come up with anything that quite satisfies me yet.

I wasn't paying much attention to the Tofu discussion earlier today, so I'll go back and take a look at that now.


----------



## bruh moment

JackPK said:


> bruh moment said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> JackPK said:
> 
> 
> 
> ok and now this post is just further entrenching my Blu/Tofu w/w thoughts
> 
> 
> 
> i think i understand what you mean, but just in case i don't - can you talk a little more about why?
> -m
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> feels like he is trying to lay groundwork/sow doubts in advance so that when Tofu flips, he will more easily be able to steer wagonomics discussion in an unfruitful direction (or maybe so he won't even need to steer bc others will do that for him!)
Click to expand...

mm, i gotcha. well ... we were reading it as like, if tofu is villa -> wolves pile on to get the ML, or if tofu is scum -> she's at risk of being bussed, in part because of what i said about the voting pattern. (on the other hand, if blu/tofu are w/w, then he could be trying to scare people away from the wagon?)

i understand your blu reservations but mostly i think that i'd rather sort him with the tofu flip in mind / am reading him charitably for now
-m


----------



## bruh moment

Negrek said:


> I wasn't paying much attention to the Tofu discussion earlier today, so I'll go back and take a look at that now.


if it helps - it's been kind of scattered discussion so i'll just say that the main post we've written about it is 873, where we went over the timeline of her claim
-m


----------



## Negrek

Thank you!


----------



## qenya

So, before I say anything else: unless I missed someone, 4/5 people polled (including me) said they thought Hydreigon was softing a strong PR of some sort on D1. So in the absence of further evidence to the contrary, I think it's a reasonably safe conclusion that Hydreigon was the mafia's nightkill rather than a vig's, and therefore that Negrek is probably more likely town-aligned than not...? Not that Negrek's still the focus of discussion anyway, but.

Another quick thing: I don't think VM's plan is a good idea even if you trust him, because it relies on a doctor existing, which is not guaranteed. Consider that about half the living players have claimed their free actions, and Mr. Ultracool is the only one so far (other than arguably Negrek) whose action is normal. Tbqh, I wouldn't even take for granted that there's a _cop_.

Now... Having re-read most of Tofu's ISO, there are actually a couple more things that stand out to me as evidence for the Tofu/Blu w/w theory that I haven't seen anyone else mention yet. First off, her very first post contained this, which he immediately responded to:


Tofu said:


> Hey uh... Does anyone know when the times of the day and night phases end? Sorry if I missed it somewhere.





Bluwiikoon said:


> The phases end at 2am UTC! ^^


In isolation I wouldn't give that a second thought: she asked a simple question and he answered it. But it starts to become a bit more odd when they establish a pattern of call-and-response.

Not long afterwards, she presents her claim, and he immediately responds to it:


Bluwiikoon said:


> Tofu said:
> 
> 
> 
> Anyway, I'll claim because I don't have a problem with people knowing, and it sounds like I wouldn't be a prime target atm:
> 
> I think mine like a one-shot ability duplicator: with my photography skills, I can choose a person to copy their action. Then, the next night or day phase (it said night or day? Are there day actions?), I will use that action. It could be useful if I know for sure who I am copying, but could also just fail if people fake roleclaim, so I'm a bit hesitant about it (especially now early game). Like I said, it's only a one-shot as well.
> 
> Just for reference in case people missed my other post: when I die, I can give two badges to someone of my choosing.
> 
> 
> 
> It's not me, it's you!?
> 
> That could be handy if we get inspection results on D2 or D3 :D A secondary detective! (needless to say @ anyone reading, don't out yourself yet if you're a detective, we need you!)
Click to expand...

It's notable that Tofu's claim here doesn't quite match what she says about it later. Here, she says that she can copy someone's action and then use it on the _next_ night or day. Later on, she says that she acquires the action immediately (although she's not told what it is), and can then use it on the _same_ night, or queue it up to be used the next day if it's a day action. That could be an honest mistake, but then I would expect her to acknowledge the contradiction.

A couple of pages after that is when Blu suggests what her "missing action" might be, and she immediately vouches for it as the truth. Same sort of interaction, just the other way round. All things considered, I'm liking the Tofu/Blu w/w theory.

Of the two of them, I think I'd prefer to vote for *Bluwiikoon*. Why Blu, and not Tofu? We know, thanks to Mr. Ultracool, that Blu definitely performed an action on N0. Either, as VM says, Blu attempted to target me and was redirected to VM, or less likely, VM is lying/also mafia and Blu targeted him directly. There's any number of things that action could have been, but it happened before any deaths occurred, so it can't possibly have a badge cost. Speaking as the person he (maybe) tried to target with it, I'm not sure I want him to get off another shot.

Secondarily, Tofu already has quite a lot of votes, and since she and Blu both have pretty good wolf equity I'd rather they be our two wagons, rather than Tofu/someone else. Especially since each one's flip would either incriminate or partially clear the other. Be the change you want to see in the world.

I have a couple more incriminating Blu posts to talk about (even over and above what Jack said) but this is already quite a long post so I'm just gonna send for now and see if there's anything people want to follow up on.


----------



## bruh moment

kokorico said:


> Of the two of them, I think I'd prefer to vote for *Bluwiikoon*. Why Blu, and not Tofu? We know, thanks to Mr. Ultracool, that Blu definitely performed an action on N0. Either, as VM says, Blu attempted to target me and was redirected to VM, or less likely, VM is lying/also mafia and Blu targeted him directly. There's any number of things that action could have been, but it happened before any deaths occurred, so it can't possibly have a badge cost. Speaking as the person he (maybe) tried to target with it, I'm not sure I want him to get off another shot.
> 
> Secondarily, Tofu already has quite a lot of votes, and since she and Blu both have pretty good wolf equity I'd rather they be our two wagons, rather than Tofu/someone else. Especially since each one's flip would either incriminate or partially clear the other. Be the change you want to see in the world.


 i honestly don’t think this makes a lot of sense. for one it kind of sounds like you’re saying “i’m voting blu over tofu because he did an action,” which... huh? i agree there’s some w/w equity but i think w!tofu suggests a possible w!blu; it’s not even damning and i don’t really see the advantage in pushing blu alongside her. makes way more sense to flip tofu and then sort blu based on that.
-q


----------



## bruh moment

in other words, i guess, this blu read 100% depends on tofu being mafia, and even then it isn’t a sure shot, so there’s basically no good reason to not just vote tofu here.
-q


----------



## haneko

I spent way too long summarising what happened toDay. I accept there may be mistakes in my notes but you can check them out in the spoiler below.



Spoiler



D1: Zori (Jasmine) lynched; self - aligned.

N1: Hydreigon25 (Volkner); town
Herbe (Cilan); self-aligned; killed by Negrek

- JackPK targeted RNP & Hydreigon. Hydreigon's ability was triggered and prevented JackPK from taking any more actions until N3. He targeted RNP because of an earlier agreement to check RNP's status as a miller (town member who appears to be mafia when checked by other players). Hydreigon was chosen because of their relatively unimportant role.
- Tofu suggests that rock/fire/fighting/dark leaders may be responsible for the deaths, but JackPK points out there are no fighting, fire, or rock leaders in the game
- Mawile points out that Lt. Surge (Zero Moment) is known for setting traps, which is how Hydreigon (Volkner) died, but says at best this is a tinfoil theory (ie. probably not significant)
- ZM theorises that Herbe was a Neighboriser/Mason/Cultist, who have the downside of dying if they accidentally target a mafia member. Hydrei "was probably just a scumkill". Also says that Hydreigon's death's flavour text can be explained by his role; he could have been a trapper based on the way JackPK was paralysed for the night.
- JackPK also points out that the kills must have been done using free actions because no badges have been distributed yet.


- rari makes the following case against Tofu in 851: Tofu says she doubts that an ability would be wasted on badge distribution if it automatically happens when a player dies, but later claims that is exactly what her Vivillon's move is. While trying to explain this ability, she uses the same explanation that Blu offers, making it look like two mafia buddies helping each other out.
- bruh moment on Tofu: " now, let's jump back to the post before this one, with the added context of colorful scatter's supposed power. at this point she's in sort of a liminal state where she remembers colorful scatter existing at all, but doesn't seem to recall fully what it is. it's a bit difficult for us to imagine this, given the detail she went into in her duplication power write-up. additionally, if she has two discrete abilities as her final post suggests (duplication + colorful scatter) PLUS the normal badge distribution we all have, it's hard to imagine that she just completely failed to notice one of her two abilities (but still managed to catch the name?), to the point that she repeatedly made specific claims about only having the duplication power and the two badge distribution and nothing else."
- Tofu's response (890): she points out that if she was hiding a good second ability, she wouldn't have asked people not to give her badges. The inconsistencies are because she conflated the two abilities she has (non-badge copycat and Colourful Scatter), which also led her to think she and everyone else had one ability, not two.
- more Tofu discussion between bruh moment and rari_teh on page 49.
- kokorico finds more reasons to suspect Tofu (& Blu) in 1166

- rari says that Negrek's questioning over the details of RNP's role make her look like a mafia fishing for info. Also doesn't like Negrek's push to abstain.
- bruh moment (929) responds (to rari specifically) that Negrek is a player who is used to having lots of mech information, and she was likely trying to see if there was any utility left in RNP's (fake) role for town. Quote: "i think that "asking for clarification on someone's unclear/weird role," from someone who we know has roots in old/more mech-focused and claim-casual meta, is a super far cry from "trying to drag info out of townies" when the most important stages (the roleclaim itself) had already happened in both tofu and rnp's cases."
- JackPK speculates on possible alignments for Negrek & RNP (898): Negrek is either a curious mafiosi or a townie not playing so well. RNP is most likely a townie, based on their town play in past games. 
- Negrek's initial response is understandable frustration over differences in playstyle, but she returns in 920 & 926 to clear up some things. She killed Herbe using Alakazam's Psyshock and her role is JOAT (Jack of All Trades). 
- JackPK asks why Negrek singled out Herbe as an activated alien. Negrek responds in a long post (1048): she prefers to have as much information as possible out in the open, and believes that Town can leverage it more effectively than mafia can, as long as Town collaborate with each other. Understanding how people's roles work makes it easier to figure out when mafia is fakeclaiming. Therefore she will try to get information on people's roles, even if, in the current meta, it makes her look anti-town. 
- Negrek also assumed that Herbe's claim that he was 3rd party was true, because there is no benefit for a town (or mafia) member to claim 3rd party. "At best their wincon would be neutral to town", she says, "and often 3p wincons are actively anti-town, but like, if we actively have to get rid of them to win... away they go."

Recent Events
- Ultracool is suspected by VM, Negrek, and Tofu
- RNP and Negrek mutually find each other suspicious
- rari votes Stryke, then backtracks once Stryke re-explains that his abilities are unlocked upon his death.
- JackPK brings up Bluwiikoon's ISO (1115). Blu's questions about VM's role come across as infofishing, while his interaction with Tofu again appears to be an attempt to help a fellow mafiosi cover up mistakes. However, rari points out that it would make more sense for them to discuss roles in scumchat, not in thread, if they were mafia. 
- kokorico votes Blu and explains why (1166): because Blu has a potentially dangerous free action, as confirmed N0 by Ultracool (a watcher). koko's vote is also partially to balance the wagons.
- VM asks the cop to reveal themselves in 1136 to implement a "follow the cop" scumhunting strategy. Negrek responds in 1162 that it is a sound strategy as long as there is some way to confirm that VM is town. kokorico doubts if a cop or doctor actually exist in this game.



I think the reasons to vote *Tofu* are pretty solid at this point; if she really isn't lying, at least we haven't lost a power role, and if she is mafia or 3rd party, that would be a very useful kill.


----------



## haneko

useful as in we'd get a lot of information from her flip


----------



## RedneckPhoenix

ミ☆ ᴍyᴜᴍᴀ said:


> - RNP and Negrek mutually find each other suspicious


the most innocent thing to do, of course, is to point fingers at the one investigating you


----------



## bruh moment

ミ☆ ᴍyᴜᴍᴀ said:


> I think the reasons to vote *Tofu* are pretty solid at this point; if she really isn't lying, at least we haven't lost a power role, and if she is mafia or 3rd party, that would be a very useful kill.


hey, can you elaborate on your progression on tofu? was there something you revisited that switched the read?
-m


----------



## Mawile

bruh moment said:


> this is stupid to say but like.
> why not simply nightkill her then


people are already suspicious of her, so if she's town and gets yeeted, then it frees up a nightkill for the mafia to try and nightkill someone who's claimed a nightly action (as opposed to tofu's one-shot)



Negrek said:


> In the case that you're Town, though, I think this is pretty solid? I was thinking it could still get messed up if there were another redirector around, but actually I think it would be fine. If there were a redirector _and_ a strongman, then they could simply divert your redirect and shoot the cop through protection, but that's the only issue that's come to mind so far. Does anyone else see problems here? I don't think it's a good idea for the cop to claim now unless they already feel certain VM is Town, but this may be something to keep in mind if we were able to clear him, whether through cop check or otherwise.


the mafia could also just straight up kill VM and leave the outed cop/doctor defenseless
or if mafia had a roleblocker, they could block VM and kill cop/doctor

personally i'm vibing with a *Tofu* vote specifically because of the mismatch between her initial claim of "use it the night/day after" and her later claim of "use it the same night/day". it's fairly easy to go and check your role PM when you're doing a legitimate roleclaim, so why not go and double-check it to make sure you're providing an accurate claim

i still don't particularly like Ultracool targeting himself last Night despite us telling him not to, but i don't see it as a cause for voting him right now
in addition, i don't feel particularly compelled to vote Blu either right now, but I feel like a wolf!Tofu flip would be good reason to investigate him more tomorrow

maybe my Thoughts will change later since i just recently woke up and my brain is not functioning Correctly
gotta go drink water tbh


----------



## bruh moment

Mawile said:


> people are already suspicious of her, so if she's town and gets yeeted, then it frees up a nightkill for the mafia to try and nightkill someone who's claimed a nightly action (as opposed to tofu's one-shot)


when i replied it was in re: ysabel characterizing our push on tofu as hypothetical-mafia trying to eliminate a role they found dangerous through lynch (at least that's how i read it, not like there was anyone else in thread hard-sussing tofu)
-m


----------



## bruh moment

also people were definitely not already suspicious of her tbh
hence the hard-push on our part


----------



## Negrek

That took way too long, but.

From my perspective, Tofu's story is entirely consistent up to 474, which is where she contradicts her early claim that she gets to use her ability the next night by saying she actually uses it in the same night. Ordinarily I wouldn't think much of this, since 474 would be where I'd expect her to actually look back at her role PM and double-check things like this. I do agree that it's a bit odd that she managed to be so in-depth about her copy power while completely missing that she had a second formal ability, but I've managed far stupider misreads in my day and can see how if she was focused on the copy ability she would pretty much ignore what was going on with the rest of it on the assumption that she knew how it worked.

Where things start to get really weird is where Bluwiikoon apparently correctly guessed what "Colorful Scatter" actually does. Although it doesn't seem incredibly unreasonable to me that he simply guessed it straight-up? Tofu's posts pretty clearly circled the idea that she had an ability that would let her distribute badges once she died, the confusion was in whether or not that was *in addition to* her normal badge grant. The fact that he was leading Tofu along in (apparently) figuring out her own power is strange, but also doesn't seem inconsistent with wanting to help figure out what was going on.

To me, the only way this is alignment-indicative for Tofu is if Mafia role PM's are structured differently from Town ones and Tofu obliviously misclaimed because she didn't realize that, then had to rush to cover things up. However, I don't really like leaning a lynch on speculation about the structure of a Mafia PM this game, and to me Occam's razor is just... Tofu really did make a big mistake? And was generally confused/incautious about how she phrased her posts (the confusion over actions/abilities)? One way or another this incident was a big *sad trombone noise* for some faction, but honestly the whole thing reads more like a Town fuck-up than a Mafia fuck-up to me. I do feel worse about Tofu upon rereading, but nothing looks like a smoking gun to me.

I'm going to take a closer look at Bluwiikoon and Ultracool next to see what I think of them.


----------



## bruh moment

Negrek said:


> To me, the only way this is alignment-indicative for Tofu is if Mafia role PM's are structured differently from Town ones and Tofu obliviously misclaimed because she didn't realize that, then had to rush to cover things up.


 hmmm, curious what you think about the theory we aired out in this post.  i know it's just speculation and maybe it won't push the needle for you, but i'd still like to hear your thoughts.
-q


----------



## M&F

six hours left!


----------



## haneko

bruh moment said:


> ミ☆ ᴍyᴜᴍᴀ said:
> 
> 
> 
> I think the reasons to vote *Tofu* are pretty solid at this point; if she really isn't lying, at least we haven't lost a power role, and if she is mafia or 3rd party, that would be a very useful kill.
> 
> 
> 
> hey, can you elaborate on your progression on tofu? was there something you revisited that switched the read?
> -m
Click to expand...

At the time, it seemed as if Tofu had made an innocent mistake, so I ignored most of the initial speculation that Tofu was lying about her role. What changed my mind was seeing you and rari_teh discuss it; after looking at Tofu's posts in more detail, I could see why people were speculating she was mafia based on the way she contradicted herself. Almost as if she was lying.

I'm not entirely sold that she *is* mafia, because there's a 50% chance she really is town, she royally screwed up, and the interaction with Blu was just a coincidence, but I'm down for a Tofu lynch because even if she is town that would give us information on other players, such as Blu. If Tofu is town then chances are the exchange with Blu really was a coincidence, and we'd conclude Blu has a good (or at least, better) chance of being town. If Tofu is mafia, then that would suggest Blu is mafia, and also make players who defended Tofu toDay look suspect. That would at least give us leads for tomorrow. Other options for a lynch today, such as Ultracool, wouldn't give us as much information.


----------



## Negrek

bruh moment said:


> bruh moment said:
> 
> 
> 
> ftr skylar and i mentioned having a badge theory at some point earlier on
> the theory was that mafia doesn't hand out badges because they'd be incentivized to just keep badges within their own faction
> 
> -m
> 
> 
> 
> to expand on this a bit, if we look at this from the bird's eye view of the game design, the badge mechanic is interesting because you're basically empowering other players based on trust.  however, this doesn't really work with the mafia—due to their information advantage, they'd essentially just be receiving a free buff with each death they experience, which seems a bit strange/unbalanced.  it seems more likely to us that mafia can't give each other badges, but that they _do_ have powerful abilities that are activated if they manage to dupe town into giving them some.  like, obviously there's no way of knowing this for sure, but it does just sort of seem to Make Sense from that game design perspective?
> 
> as mewt said, this is part of what made us so suspicious of tofu, since getting mixed up about badge distribution specifically fit into this theory _really_ well, given that mafia would have to play it by ear here since they're excluded from this mechanic.
> -q
Click to expand...

I actually wouldn't be surprised if the Mafia could give each other badges. It gives them kind of a "there's fewer of them, but they're stronger now" power-up mechanic that I think would actually be more interesting than "they can receive but not give badges" or "they can give badges, but not to each other." Also, it's looking like there's probably no more than four of them, so it wouldn't be hard to make it so they can't charge up their own abilities entirely through their own deaths by adjusting the ability costs and the number of badges they give out accordingly. The other issue is that if they try to charge up one person in particular, but then that person gets taken out by the Town... oops, they just lost everything.

But as a game designer I can see the appeal of "if the Mafia play things right, they can maybe charge themselves up for one super attack and turn the game around even if there's only one left." It also gives them more interesting decisions around badges, similar to what Town players have. I don't feel comfortable ruling it out as a possibility.

Ultimately I'm not too fussed either way as it applies to Tofu, specifically, because I'm seeing four possibilities here:

1) the Mafia don't distribute badges, and their PM includes nothing about badge distribution as a result
2) the Mafia distribute badges the same as normal players and have the same verbiage
3) the Mafia distribute badges differently than normal players, but the information is presented in the same way
4) the Mafia distribute badges differently than normal players, but the information is presented differently

I think 1) is out, since Tofu was mentioning her badge distribution ability right from the get-go, just in weird terms. If she were Mafia she'd know that this was actually a special power because nobody else would have gotten something similar in their PM, so I think she'd have more explicitly framed Colorful Scatter as a special ability of hers. For 2/3, Mafia!Tofu is just misreading in the same way Town!Tofu would be. Four is the only scenario where I see Tofu as uniquely making this mistake due to alignment.

So, like, even if Mafia can't give badges to each other, I see multiple scenarios under which even if Tofu were misreading her role PM, it'd be no more or less easy to do so than she were Town, and if anything I'd kind of expect her to be less likely to screw it up as Mafia, because surely she would have shared her ability with the team and had them go, "Oh, huh, that's weird?" And like I said, I'm not huge on lynching someone over my guess at how the Mafia's role PM's are set up.


----------



## RedneckPhoenix

not lynching you today is the real town fuck-up


----------



## RedneckPhoenix

my money is on tofu/negrek w/w


----------



## Negrek

kokorico said:


> Another quick thing: I don't think VM's plan is a good idea even if you trust him, because it relies on a doctor existing, which is not guaranteed. Consider that about half the living players have claimed their free actions, and Mr. Ultracool is the only one so far (other than arguably Negrek) whose action is normal. Tbqh, I wouldn't even take for granted that there's a _cop_.


ime at least doc, cop, and vig do tend to turn up in MF setups, even if there are other wild roles flying around. I feel reasonably confident that we have at last one fairly-standard doctor and a fairly-standard cop out there. However, this is worth thinking about; there may be weird restrictions on their investigation/healing abilities that would make this work less well than in a standard game, hmm.



Mawile said:


> the mafia could also just straight up kill VM and leave the outed cop/doctor defenseless
> or if mafia had a roleblocker, they could block VM and kill cop/doctor


VM would draw the doc heal to himself, so he wouldn't die from a direct Mafia target. They could block him, but then the doc would simply heal the cop directly. They could block + kill VM in one night, but then they still wouldn't know who the doc was to block them and stop them consistently healing the cop.

I gotta run to a book club, but I'll be back later to ISO Blu and Ultracool and place my vote. Still leaning Ultracool at this point.


----------



## bruh moment

Negrek said:


> I think 1) is out, since Tofu was mentioning her badge distribution ability right from the get-go, just in weird terms.


 do you think so?  other people had been talking about badge distribution already by that point.  i don't think it's unreasonable at all that she/the other mafia had picked up on it by that point and were simply trying to blend in.  the "weird terms" you describe would fit that scenario, since she would be trying to discuss the badge mechanic by taking cues from town, without having anything to go on from her role pm.  the subsequent backtracking would be a reaction to better understanding how the badge mechanic works.

this post kind of touches on speculation in a similar vein, about how the colorful scatter thing might have arisen in a w!tofu situation. we're curious what you think about that, too, if it's not too much trouble.
-q


----------



## Bluwiikoon

I think the colorful scatter thing clicked for me because someone else isolated the part of the post that I quoted about it. I was really puzzling hard about it because it seemed weird to me that a secondary power could just... be the same cantrip that everyone has with badges?  I think I got too excited about solving a thing and ended up making a bad move, if Tofu is w (like RNP pointed out)


----------



## JackPK

bruh moment said:


> Negrek said:
> 
> 
> 
> I think 1) is out, since Tofu was mentioning her badge distribution ability right from the get-go, just in weird terms.
> 
> 
> 
> do you think so?  other people had been talking about badge distribution already by that point.
Click to expand...

not to mention that badge distribution was already explicitly explained in the signup thread (but the exact form it would take in role PMs wasn't)


----------



## rari_teh

i’m preëmptively sorry for whatever bad take i may come up with because i’m most definitely not in the right headspace for mafia, but today is EoD and i Must Play The Bloody Game



Ysabel said:


> Ok here's a theory. Either Negrek and bm are scumbuddies and they're powerwolfing or maybe bm is right and it's Tofu and maybe Blu and vm (and rari and Jack based on people who defended Tofu or w[ere unwilling to vote for her] ? . I reread some of Tofu's posts and they do give pause. Like the role PM correction people mentioned with blu's help. But wouldn't w!Blu nudge w!Tofu about her pm through the scumchat? Plus bm said it was nai? And do Skylar and mewtini tunnel as wolves? rari seemed to think they were unnecessarily tunneling but didn't scumread them based on that. Also I was thinking a lot of yesterday's discussion just felt like sidetracks. Like the discussion of whether there's mafia or not (because there hasn't been any mafs dead yet? But only three people have died. Isn't it too early to speculate like that based on only 3 deaths?) hmm.


i didn’t think they were unnecessarily tunneling? i tried my best to make clear that their reasoning made sense but i thought they weren’t being generous enough/weren’t giving the possibility of a royal town fuckup a chance, sorry if i failed on that

my no mafia theory didn’t hinge _solely_ on the fact that we flipped two 3ps and no mafia; as i repeatedly said yesterday, i know something that i am most definitely not comfortable making public yet that may suggest there is no mafia after all. i don’t think this is the case anymore because bruh said that their role pm mentions mafia-aligned players and they are frankly all but conftown since they were the first to cite the town wincon’s wording, which checks out with the town wincon i got in my role pm.



Ysabel said:


> well, just thining on if tofu is mafia then who could be her team. As I see it, blu for the reasons already mentioned, how he tried to help her out. It also possibly implicates VM for also defending her or maybe not outright defending but not considering the possibility that she may be maf? And possibly rari for the defense (and tbf the seeming flailing. Which sorry rari but it doesn't look too good :( )


can’t blame anyone but me for my mistakes, if tofu flips red tonight i’ll definitely be the largest clown in town
at least i will enjoy the fine company of jack and negrek in the circus, apparently, but that’s a whole ’nother story

i am having a hard time to grasp what people in general are seeing in blu to suss him in connection with tofu? it really doesn’t make sense for a wolf to provide a plausible fakeclaim suggestion for their partner in public view, _at all_



kokorico said:


> It's notable that Tofu's claim here doesn't quite match what she says about it later. Here, she says that she can copy someone's action and then use it on the _next_ night or day. Later on, she says that she acquires the action immediately (although she's not told what it is), and can then use it on the _same_ night, or queue it up to be used the next day if it's a day action. That could be an honest mistake, but then I would expect her to acknowledge the contradiction.


this is. not a good look indeed.

my thoughts on the wagons:

- ultracool is in his towngame. judging from my experience as scum with him in cats, i’d be a bit surprised if he flipped red
- i might be being extra-silly here, but i’ll die in tofu’s pocket
- i still think the entire foundation of a blu wagon makes no sense. koko’s casing hinges on an extremely flimsy w/w association read with tofu (which, as bruh and ysa pointed out, if valid would be best resolved by flipping tofu) and on cherry-picked bluposts in response to tofu that he’d frankly make in response to anybody else
- i don’t think negrek is mafia anymore

if i were to start a wagon, /maybe/ it would be koko because i’ve been getting weird vibes from em since d1, but those always dissipate after i iso em so ?_?
i have a slight hunch that i found a kokoscumtell and, if i did, e’s most likely maf here, but. i am not confident on my read.


----------



## qenya

bruh moment said:


> i honestly don’t think this makes a lot of sense. for one it kind of sounds like you’re saying “i’m voting blu over tofu because he did an action,” which... huh? i agree there’s some w/w equity but i think w!tofu suggests a possible w!blu; it’s not even damning and i don’t really see the advantage in pushing blu alongside her. makes way more sense to flip tofu and then sort blu based on that.


hhhhhhh

I do totally get where you're coming from, don't get me wrong, but half the reason people are sussing Tofu at all is that Blu's leap of logic over Colorful Scatter was hella weird. If not those interactions with him, I highly doubt she would have attracted this much attention - even the other stuff you've pointed out isn't really conclusive on its own. I'm honestly struggling to envisage a plausible world where they're anti-aligned at all.

Either way it doesn't look as if anyone other than Tofu is getting yeeted today, so perhaps this doesn't really matter. It just kind of feels like a missed opportunity.



rari_teh said:


> i have a slight hunch that i found a kokoscumtell


oh, this'll be good. always interesting to hear what people think my "meta" is.


----------



## qenya

kokorico said:


> I'm honestly struggling to envisage a plausible world where they're anti-aligned at all.


(In fact, if they _were_ antialigned I would say v Tofu/w Blu was more likely than the reverse; at least in that scenario I can kind of see him trying to either pocket her or, less likely, frame her.)


----------



## bruh moment

kokorico said:


> I do totally get where you're coming from, don't get me wrong, but half the reason people are sussing Tofu at all is that Blu's leap of logic over Colorful Scatter was hella weird. If not those interactions with him, I highly doubt she would have attracted this much attention - even the other stuff you've pointed out isn't really conclusive on its own. I'm honestly struggling to envisage a plausible world where they're anti-aligned at all.


 mm, not really?  i feel like this kind of misses the point in a big way.  yeah, blu was involved in the series of events that's causing us to scumread tofu, but the association basically ends there.  she attracted attention because she fucked up her roleclaim in a suspcious way, and she did that all by herself.  blu was just trying to figure out what her role was based on the spotty information she'd provided, which could go either way.
-q


----------



## bruh moment

kokorico said:


> half the reason people are sussing Tofu at all


it's ... not tbh? this doesn't really make sense, i am also kiiiind of side-eyeing everyone who's trying to clamp down hard on tofu w -> blu w atm because i think it's premature
the reason blu suggesting that matters isn't because he said it, it's because tofu went "lol oh yeah that's exactly it" with no lead-up, at any point, across the multiple posts where she'd been claiming and reclaiming her role.


kokorico said:


> (In fact, if they _were_ antialigned I would say v Tofu/w Blu was more likely than the reverse; at least in that scenario I can kind of see him trying to either pocket her or, less likely, frame her.)


if i assume he goes to work within "What I Imagine A Wolf Would Do" (read: semiuseless conjecture maybe) idk why w blu wouldn't just let her flail tbh. if they're antialigned then it's pretty normally-helpful blu trying to guess at role descriptions and w!tofu taking the easy way out
-m


----------



## bruh moment

Ninja'd By Myself


----------



## bruh moment

wahoo, hydrinja!


----------



## bruh moment

bruh moment said:


> wahoo, hydrinja!


omfg.


kokorico said:


> It just kind of feels like a missed opportunity.


missed opportunity for what exactly
-m


----------



## bruh moment

very sorry for the series of posts here, corrections + additions:


bruh moment said:


> (In fact, if they _were_ antialigned I would say v Tofu/w Blu was more likely than the reverse; at least in that scenario I can kind of see him trying to either pocket her or, less likely, frame her.)
> 
> 
> 
> if i assume he goes to work within "What I Imagine A Wolf Would Do" (read: semiuseless conjecture maybe) idk why w blu wouldn't just let her flail tbh. if they're antialigned **the reverse way, *then it's pretty normally-helpful blu trying to guess at role descriptions and w!tofu taking the easy way out
Click to expand...

it's important to note that tbh if blu had said nothing i think the thread would have fully jumped on her, which is part of where the partnery read comes from but also doesn't have anything to do with tofu's claim or the subsequent analysis of said claim 
which is why i don't realllly know why w!blu ever pops in at that moment and gives v!tofu the easy way out in that situation. pushing a weird townie at that point makes more sense to me than "let's go in for the pocket"

(and to be clear, this is about the antialigned scenario, specifically. not a direct read on blu here)
-m


----------



## Bluwiikoon

BM I'm interested to see if you have a reads list, if you haven't posted one recently already! ^^

re: kokorico vibes, I was thinking if VM was jailer then the fact that he used an action on koko would implicate em, since there was no nightkill on N0  But apparently VM's power is just redirection. That's how my train of thought went, anyhoo!


----------



## M&F

three more hours!

the votecount remains as it was in the previous count


----------



## Ys_

rari_teh said:


> i’m preëmptively sorry for whatever bad take i may come up with because i’m most definitely not in the right headspace for mafia, but today is EoD and i Must Play The Bloody Game


omg don't strain yourself <3



Ysabel said:


> Ok here's a theory. Either Negrek and bm are scumbuddies and they're powerwolfing or maybe bm is right and it's Tofu and maybe Blu and vm (and rari and Jack based on people who defended Tofu or w[ere unwilling to vote for her] ? . I reread some of Tofu's posts and they do give pause. Like the role PM correction people mentioned with blu's help. But wouldn't w!Blu nudge w!Tofu about her pm through the scumchat? Plus bm said it was nai? And do Skylar and mewtini tunnel as wolves? rari seemed to think they were unnecessarily tunneling but didn't scumread them based on that. Also I was thinking a lot of yesterday's discussion just felt like sidetracks. Like the discussion of whether there's mafia or not (because there hasn't been any mafs dead yet? But only three people have died. Isn't it too early to speculate like that based on only 3 deaths?) hmm.


i didn’t think they were unnecessarily tunneling? i tried my best to make clear that their reasoning made sense but i thought they weren’t being generous enough/weren’t giving the possibility of a royal town fuckup a chance, sorry if i failed on that
[/QUOTE]
omg no worries, I misinterpreted you then, and thanks for clarifying. Maybe I misinterpreted based on how I felt, which was that they were only focusing/pushing on Tofuthoughts, but I can also see it coming from frustrated v!bm so makes sense.



> my no mafia theory didn’t hinge _solely_ on the fact that we flipped two 3ps and no mafia; as i repeatedly said yesterday, i know something that i am most definitely not comfortable making public yet that may suggest there is no mafia after all. i don’t think this is the case anymore because bruh said that their role pm mentions mafia-aligned players and they are frankly all but conftown since they were the first to cite the town wincon’s wording, which checks out with the town wincon i got in my role pm.


mkay. I wasn't just looking at you but also at others who seemed to follow the theory. Like I mentioned, it felt like trying to sidetrack discussion. The way I saw it was, does it really matter? Or like, would people change their plays based on the possibility of no mafs? Maybe not much except to consider antitown as separate independant factions, but the rationale we get in dayplay still applies.



> Ysabel said:
> 
> 
> 
> well, just thin*k*ing on if tofu is mafia then who could be her team. As I see it, blu for the reasons already mentioned, how he tried to help her out. It also possibly implicates VM for also defending her or maybe not outright defending but not considering the possibility that she may be maf? And possibly rari for the defense (and tbf the seeming flailing. Which sorry rari but it doesn't look too good :( )
> 
> 
> 
> can’t blame anyone but me for my mistakes, if tofu flips red tonight i’ll definitely be the largest clown in town
> at least i will enjoy the fine company of jack and negrek in the circus, apparently, but that’s a whole ’nother story
> 
> i am having a hard time to grasp what people in general are seeing in blu to suss him in connection with tofu? it really doesn’t make sense for a wolf to provide a plausible fakeclaim suggestion for their partner in public view, _at all_
Click to expand...

yeah, that's partly what I thought and partly why I didn't like the possibility of her being mafia. More or less because it implicates people I see as towny but *shrug*

my thoughts on the wagons:

- ultracool is in his towngame. judging from my experience as scum with him in cats, i’d be a bit surprised if he flipped red
- i might be being extra-silly here, but i’ll die in tofu’s pocket
- i still think the entire foundation of a blu wagon makes no sense. koko’s casing hinges on an extremely flimsy w/w association read with tofu (which, as bruh and ysa pointed out, if valid would be best resolved by flipping tofu) and on cherry-picked bluposts in response to tofu that he’d frankly make in response to anybody else
- i don’t think negrek is mafia anymore

if i were to start a wagon, /maybe/ it would be koko because i’ve been getting weird vibes from em since d1, but those always dissipate after i iso em so ?_?
i have a slight hunch that i found a kokoscumtell and, if i did, e’s most likely maf here, but. i am not confident on my read.
[/QUOTE]
hmm fair enough. Maybe toMorrow. I wanted to take a look but got sidetracked with the Tofu stuff and now I kind of want to do other rl stuff. Though feel free to quote me or @ me anyone. I'll be around, just not super engaged.

-
ily all and remember it's just a game :3 <3 (really tho. mafia is no fun at all if you take it too seriously)


----------



## Ys_

Spoiler: Fixed formatting






> i’m preëmptively sorry for whatever bad take i may come up with because i’m most definitely not in the right headspace for mafia, but today is EoD and i Must Play The Bloody Game


omg don't strain yourself <3



> Ysabel said:
> 
> 
> 
> Ok here's a theory. Either Negrek and bm are scumbuddies and they're powerwolfing or maybe bm is right and it's Tofu and maybe Blu and vm (and rari and Jack based on people who defended Tofu or w[ere unwilling to vote for her] ? . I reread some of Tofu's posts and they do give pause. Like the role PM correction people mentioned with blu's help. But wouldn't w!Blu nudge w!Tofu about her pm through the scumchat? Plus bm said it was nai? And do Skylar and mewtini tunnel as wolves? rari seemed to think they were unnecessarily tunneling but didn't scumread them based on that. Also I was thinking a lot of yesterday's discussion just felt like sidetracks. Like the discussion of whether there's mafia or not (because there hasn't been any mafs dead yet? But only three people have died. Isn't it too early to speculate like that based on only 3 deaths?) hmm.
> 
> 
> 
> i didn’t think they were unnecessarily tunneling? i tried my best to make clear that their reasoning made sense but i thought they weren’t being generous enough/weren’t giving the possibility of a royal town fuckup a chance, sorry if i failed on that
Click to expand...

omg no worries, I misinterpreted you then, and thanks for clarifying. Maybe I misinterpreted based on how I felt, which was that they were only focusing/pushing on Tofuthoughts, but I can also see it coming from frustrated v!bm so makes sense.



> my no mafia theory didn’t hinge _solely_ on the fact that we flipped two 3ps and no mafia; as i repeatedly said yesterday, i know something that i am most definitely not comfortable making public yet that may suggest there is no mafia after all. i don’t think this is the case anymore because bruh said that their role pm mentions mafia-aligned players and they are frankly all but conftown since they were the first to cite the town wincon’s wording, which checks out with the town wincon i got in my role pm.


mkay. I wasn't just looking at you but also at others who seemed to follow the theory. Like I mentioned, it felt like trying to sidetrack discussion. The way I saw it was, does it really matter? Or like, would people change their plays based on the possibility of no mafs? Maybe not much except to consider antitown as separate independant factions, but the rationale we get in dayplay still applies.



> Ysabel said:
> 
> 
> 
> well, just thin*k*ing on if tofu is mafia then who could be her team. As I see it, blu for the reasons already mentioned, how he tried to help her out. It also possibly implicates VM for also defending her or maybe not outright defending but not considering the possibility that she may be maf? And possibly rari for the defense (and tbf the seeming flailing. Which sorry rari but it doesn't look too good :( )
> 
> 
> 
> can’t blame anyone but me for my mistakes, if tofu flips red tonight i’ll definitely be the largest clown in town
> at least i will enjoy the fine company of jack and negrek in the circus, apparently, but that’s a whole ’nother story
> 
> i am having a hard time to grasp what people in general are seeing in blu to suss him in connection with tofu? it really doesn’t make sense for a wolf to provide a plausible fakeclaim suggestion for their partner in public view, _at all_
Click to expand...


yeah, that's partly what I thought and partly why I didn't like the possibility of her being mafia. More or less because it implicates people I see as towny but *shrug*



> my thoughts on the wagons:
> 
> - ultracool is in his towngame. judging from my experience as scum with him in cats, i’d be a bit surprised if he flipped red
> - i might be being extra-silly here, but i’ll die in tofu’s pocket
> - i still think the entire foundation of a blu wagon makes no sense. koko’s casing hinges on an extremely flimsy w/w association read with tofu (which, as bruh and ysa pointed out, if valid would be best resolved by flipping tofu) and on cherry-picked bluposts in response to tofu that he’d frankly make in response to anybody else
> - i don’t think negrek is mafia anymore
> 
> if i were to start a wagon, /maybe/ it would be koko because i’ve been getting weird vibes from em since d1, but those always dissipate after i iso em so ?_?
> i have a slight hunch that i found a kokoscumtell and, if i did, e’s most likely maf here, but. i am not confident on my read.


hmm fair enough. Maybe toMorrow. I wanted to take a look but got sidetracked with the Tofu stuff and now I kind of want to do other rl stuff. Though feel free to quote me or @ me anyone. I'll be around, just not super engaged.



-
ily all and remember it's just a game :3 <3 (really tho. mafia is no fun at all if you take it too seriously)
also lmao rip formatting again


----------



## qenya

@bruh moment uh. both halves of you kind of asked the same questions so I'm just gonna try to answer in prose rather than quote-replying:

I think I'm gonna go reread Tofu's original claim sequence one more time quickly, because we seem to be remembering it slightly differently, but I really don't see how you can say that she "fucked up her roleclaim all by herself". As I recall it, the part people were initially finding odd was that she seemed to be saying she only had one action other than the badge distribution, unlike everyone else; as Negrek pointed out, that isn't really AI in itself. Then she explained that she had misread her role PM and discovered that she had a second action (the badge _re_distribution), having previously confused it with the after-death badge distribution that everyone gets; again, that's a perfectly understandable mistake. The suspicious part is that she only "discovered" the second action after Blu inexplicably figured out exactly what it was, and then she appeared almost _immediately_ after his post to acknowledge and confirm it, in a way that he'd previously done to several of _her_ posts. I don't really see how that happens without some sort of coordination between them.

By "missed opportunity", I mean that by selecting our yeet (Tofu) early in the day and nothing else really happening to alter the wagon's course, we don't get any information much from pushing on other people. I mean, think about it - what new non-Tofu-related information have we got today? Negrek's claim and, uh, philosophical grounding (not sure what else to call it), Jack's and Mr Ultracool's night action results, and... nothing else? Maybe you've hit on some fabulous series of reads that I'm clueless about, but from my point of view, this day has been pretty unfruitful. My tierlist looks pretty much the same as it did yesterday; I can post it if you're interested, but it's unlikely to be very illuminating.

I think on balance I'm going to switch to *Tofu*, because I'm not going to be around for EoD, don't know what might happen between now and then, and don't want to risk the possibility of a non-Tofu non-Blu wagon somehow arising. But I'm still not at all convinced by the v!Blu arguments so far.



Ysabel said:


> ily all and remember it's just a game :3 <3 (really tho. mafia is no fun at all if you take it too seriously)


Thank you for this. A much-needed reminder!


----------



## bruh moment

kokorico said:


> I think I'm gonna go reread Tofu's original claim sequence one more time quickly, because we seem to be remembering it slightly differently, but I really don't see how you can say that she "fucked up her roleclaim all by herself".


 feel free to refer to the very thorough post we made detailing the events in the exact order they happened tbh.





						Gym Leader Choice Pokémafia 2 - Game Thread
					

but, uh, let's, let's see how it transpires.  ily keith




					forums.dragonflycave.com
				



tofu was already stumbling all over the place and drawing fire by the time blu popped in the thread with his interpretation of her role; him doing so effectively ended the debacle for the most part.  blu's involvement in the process was honestly pretty minimal and you're definitely seeing something that isn't there if you think he's the one that made the whole thing controversial.



kokorico said:


> By "missed opportunity", I mean that by selecting our yeet (Tofu) early in the day and nothing else really happening to alter the wagon's course, we don't get any information much from pushing on other people. I mean, think about it - what new non-Tofu-related information have we got today?


 we did not remotely select our yeet early in the Day; the wagon was met with intense apathy until this morning, over halfway through the Day.  also i think we learned a lot just based on the way people have reacted to this discussion?  this is a weird way to look at the game and even if it made sense i don't really see how randomly wagoning blu is supposed to remedy it.
-q


----------



## qenya

rari_teh said:


> i’m preëmptively sorry for whatever bad take i may come up with


me in every game D:


----------



## rari_teh

Ysabel said:


> omg don't strain yourself <3





Ysabel said:


> ily all and remember it's just a game :3 <3 (really tho. mafia is no fun at all if you take it too seriously)


ysa. you’re a blessing. <3 thank you ;u;



Ysabel said:


> mkay. I wasn't just looking at you but also at others who seemed to follow the theory. Like I mentioned, it felt like trying to sidetrack discussion. The way I saw it was, does it really matter? Or like, would people change their plays based on the possibility of no mafs? Maybe not much except to consider antitown as separate independant factions, but the rationale we get in dayplay still applies.


imo it does matter. if there’s no ingroup mafia all association reads are naught but random noise


----------



## rari_teh

kokorico said:


> The suspicious part is that she only "discovered" the second action after Blu inexplicably figured out exactly what it was, and then she appeared almost _immediately_ after his post to acknowledge and confirm it, in a way that he'd previously done to several of _her_ posts. I don't really see how that happens without some sort of coordination between them.


you don’t need coördination to back-and-forth when both people are present in thread and real-timing
i still think you’re looking too much at one interaction that should’ve taken place in scumchat if they were w/w and then filing it together with a bunch of normal bluposts to make it sound incriminating

not saying you’re necessarily doing it deliberately, but that’s sure how i’m seeing it


----------



## bruh moment

kokorico said:


> But I'm still not at all convinced by the v!Blu arguments so far.


idk why you're reading our opposition as a "v!blu argument" tbh
your w!blu read was dependent on how he interacted with w!tofu inthread, meaning that it was extrapolation off of a _different _gutread. how is us saying "we should vote the first-order read that would offer some more information on the second-order read" confusing
the way i see it you're acknowledging that you think w!tofu -> w!blu (+ that they aren't antialigned), therefore lynch blu today despite there having been more revealing discussion about tofu? ??? and as we said earlier the correlation isn't even an exact one, it's too soon to even say that that implication is 100% (and definitely too soon to jump a step in the lynch chain there) 

especially when a non-negligible part of your read is "they interact inthread a lot" which is just, like, not really significant imo and not worth jumping the gun in the way you're proposing


Bluwiikoon said:


> BM I'm interested to see if you have a reads list, if you haven't posted one recently already! ^^


hell yeah brother, it is in the works but i keep getting distracted

-m


----------



## qenya

bruh moment said:


> feel free to refer to the very thorough post we made detailing the events in the exact order they happened tbh.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Gym Leader Choice Pokémafia 2 - Game Thread
> 
> 
> but, uh, let's, let's see how it transpires.  ily keith
> 
> 
> 
> 
> forums.dragonflycave.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> tofu was already stumbling all over the place and drawing fire by the time blu popped in the thread with his interpretation of her role; him doing so effectively ended the debacle for the most part. blu's involvement in the process was honestly pretty minimal and you're definitely seeing something that isn't there if you think he's the one that made the whole thing controversial.


Thanks for that. I don't really disagree with your presentation of the narrative, and I certainly am scumreading Tofu (if anything I've said has given the impression that I'm not, then I apologise). But her behaviour, though perhaps _noteworthy_, wasn't alignment-indicative in isolation from everything else that happened. Even you acknowledge that, here:


bruh moment said:


> it's honestly pretty difficult to explain this regardless of her alignment.





bruh moment said:


> we did not remotely select our yeet early in the Day


uh... what? What other realistic targets have been floated, then? Other than Negrek, who I acknowledged.



bruh moment said:


> this is a weird way to look at the game


Hell yeah! Weird perspectives forever. >:3 In all seriousness, I think we're going to have to agree to disagree on this one.

I think that this conversation is rapidly becoming unproductive, and I'm tired anyway, so I'm probably not going to be coming back before EoD. Hope all goes well.


----------



## qenya

imagine there was. like. something separating those two quotes of yours in the middle.

i should really get into the habit of previewing before i hit post, huh.


----------



## bruh moment

kokorico said:


> uh... what? What other realistic targets have been floated, then? Other than Negrek, who I acknowledged.


yes the conversation has centered on negrek and tofu, but like

the fact that one player (us) cased tofu early on, but that the wagon didn't get any traction until late in the day (and that there was active resistance against it), is absolutely not "town settled on a lynch candidate and then didn't talk about anything else" and it's a bit reductive/untrue to say that it is

-m


----------



## bruh moment

kokorico said:


> But her behaviour, though perhaps _noteworthy_, wasn't alignment-indicative in isolation from everything else that happened.


also, again, it wasn't really about her behavior/recovery so much as the exact order in which information was released
-m


----------



## Vipera Magnifica

I am not really in the headspace for mafia today. Just felt like prefacing this post by saying that.

It looks like Tofu is getting yeeted today which is... frustrating, because I'm pretty sure she's actually just town. It seems my proposal wasn't really given the consideration it deserves, which is equally frustrating, but I _tried_. I suppose the cop could check me tonight if that's the assurance they're looking for but I just feel like this ends up with us wasting a night and potentially losing the cop to mafia NK. 

I was looking forward to powertowning this game but whatever. Oh also, my vote shouldn't be on Jack still; I voted for Hydreigon and figured it would clear that. I'm just gonna place a vote on *kokorico* if that's not good enough. I don't really feel like elaborating.


----------



## Vipera Magnifica

Neither Tofu nor I are going to be around at EoD so do what you will but I'd advise yeeting someone who isn't Tofu tbh


----------



## bruh moment

Vipera Magnifica said:


> It looks like Tofu is getting yeeted today which is... frustrating, because I'm pretty sure she's actually just town.


if you have time can you talk quickly about why?
-m


----------



## rari_teh

Vipera Magnifica said:


> It looks like Tofu is getting yeeted today which is... frustrating, because I'm pretty sure she's actually just town. It seems my proposal wasn't really given the consideration it deserves, which is equally frustrating, but I _tried_. I suppose the cop could check me tonight if that's the assurance they're looking for but I just feel like this ends up with us wasting a night and potentially losing the cop to mafia NK.


tbh i don’t think that’s a waste. also don’t think that the cop is risking to get nightkilled unless a) i’m blind and didn’t notice a blatant soft or b) the mafia has a rolecop who correctly identified the cop N0 or N1

in fact, i think that the cop /should/ inspect vm because his alignment should be the one thing stopping us from putting his plan into action

i’m vibing here more than elsewhere. this will end nowhere but whatever. *kokorico*


----------



## rari_teh

rari_teh said:


> in fact, i think that the cop /should/ inspect vm because his alignment should be the one thing stopping us from putting his plan into action


in this case i also advise the doctor to heal vm toNight because, if he’s town, he’s most likely getting offed toNight


----------



## Bluwiikoon

Due to how N0 played out I'm inclined to believe VM is town   I can't really say much more, but if my theory about what happened is correct then pog


----------



## Bluwiikoon

Unrelated to any useful spec (my apologies!), but I feel like the vibes have seemed kind of down toDay so I would like to offer a funny video to everyone  If I had any cute animals I would share that, but this is all I got!


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1294790349559345152
Stay hydrated, eat a food if you need a food, and take a break if you need a break!


----------



## bruh moment

Bluwiikoon said:


> BM I'm interested to see if you have a reads list, if you haven't posted one recently already! ^^





Spoiler: a brand mew tierlist. haha get it?









negrek
ysabel
vm





rnp
rari
blu
uc





stryke (a bit above null)
zm (null/??)





myuma
jack





mawile
koko
tofu


probably clear from the list but we vibe with the onset of the koko counterwagon tbh tbh
-m


----------



## bruh moment

Spoiler: vote history



vm / jack 807
rari / negrek 852
*rnp / negrek 858*
rari / stryke 1080
rari / unvote 1090
*bruh / tofu 1093*
jack / blu 1115
*ysabel / tofu 1126
tofu / ultracool 1133
ultracool / tofu 1141
jack / tofu 1157*
koko / blu 1166
*myuma / tofu 1169
mawile / tofu 1173
koko / tofu 1200
vm / koko 1210
rari / koko 1213*


*tofu (7):* bruh #1093, ysabel #1126, ultracool #1141, jack #1157, myuma #1169, mawile #1173, koko #1200
*koko (2)*: vm #1210, rari #1213
*ultracool (1):* tofu #1133
*negrek (1):* rnp #858

-m


----------



## rari_teh

i live for mewt’s tiermemes

would you mind explaining your progression on jack? i was ¬¬ing him a bit D1 but moved him a couple slots in my tierlist after you got pretty much confirmed and read jack as outside his wolfmeta via tarot

not for today ofc, but i am tempted to put him back in my PoE


----------



## M&F

last hour!

mewt keeps doing accurate vote counts just as I'm about to-


----------



## Negrek

I went back and read through Mr. Ultracool and Blwiikoon.

Bluwiikoon actually came out looking better to me than when I went in. At first I was thinking only about the fact that he was involved in two kind of "huh" incidents for me, the thing with him/Ultracool/VM and the thing with Tofu, so maybe there was something there. Reading back through, though, he was really very tangentially involved in these incidents. The biggest thing was potentially helping Tofu out by presenting her with a plausible claim, but that does read to me as him trying to figure things out rather than trying to cover for her. At this point I actively do not want to lynch him.

Ultracool continued to puzzle me on the second read-through. His statements about his role seemed to weirdly shift over time, from his initial post where he says that his role gives him essentially zero info, to later posts where he's practically screaming, "I AM AN INFOROLE, PLEASE KILL ME." Weird comments about "well I can't tell alignments," "except oops maybe actually I could," "if I just meet that one condition..." (Maybe another case of misreading the role PM and figuring things out later, but the presentation is very strange to me.) He keeps trying really hard to figure out a way to give information back to Town if he watched himself and was killed by the Mafia even though people keep pointing out what a bad plan that is. I could imagine a (very non-standard) Town role that would fit with his play here, but that is obviously getting wildly speculative. It may just be that he's not familiar with how watchers tend to be effective, it may just be he thought of this Mafia-killing-me thing and thinks it's great and is kind of stuck on it (or was... afraid of being blocked or something if he didn't go with it after people told him not to?), but to me it just looks like he has some other goal in mind than using his ability to help Town. It is tripping me up a bit that his play strikes me as way more 3p than outright Mafia, which... if there are Mafia, we could potentially still have one or maaaaybe two 3p still floating around out there, but it's starting to get a bit weird.

To me, it just feels like I have to work much harder to envision a situation where Ultracool's Town than where Tofu's Town. Unless something dramatic happens, I'm going to go with *Mr. Ultracool* today. (Although I see votes are shifting, why must this always happen so close to the end of the day.)

I know bruh moment asked me a question earlier. I'll go back and look for that...


----------



## bruh moment

rari_teh said:


> would you mind explaining your progression on jack? i was ¬¬ing him a bit D1 but moved him a couple slots in my tierlist after you got pretty much confirmed and read jack as outside his wolfmeta via tarot


we were kinda doing the same, i think we listed him as an oscillating read last time? i do think he's outside of his meta but that's kind of all that was keeping me townleaning him, didn't like how he talked about the wagons d1 and when we went back to reread noticed that he also never really engaged with the seshas one (despite talking in some depth about ultracool). like, he voiced being worried about a mounting/runaway wagon in concept, but didn't really do anything to stop or rationalize it?

also thought him following onto the negrek suspicions didn't really make sense, but that might be a little bit of a reach because my thought was pretty much "uh, they're both from old meta" + he said that he was pretty much only TRing tofu because of IRL angleshooting but never really engaged with it beyond that. also thought his blu case was like ... weird, he laid out these ideas and then didn't follow them to their logical conclusion; if i'm reading it correctly, it also revolves around reading tofu as a wolf:


JackPK said:


> these two posts feel almost TMI/openwolfy in how strongly they feel like an attempt to help a teammate cover up a questionable claim that was coming under more scrutiny than expected (which, in this reading, would implicate Tofu as well). There was nothing in Tofu's posts at that time that indicated anything like what Bluwii is suggesting (especially that discongruous "are you saying...?" when that's clearly not what she was saying), but sure enough Tofu ran with it.


and the rest of the evidence given is kind of unconvincing? like he calls these quotes LAMIST but i think they're just, blu,


Spoiler: quotes






Bluwiikoon said:


> That could be handy if we get inspection results on D2 or D3 :D A secondary detective! (needless to say @ anyone reading, don't out yourself yet if you're a detective, we need you!)





Bluwiikoon said:


> No nightkill is fantastic, but I really think trying to get someone to claim healer/roleblocker is counterproductive rn? We gotta keep the powerful town roles safe!!  And we gotta all hydrate so we can think good!





Bluwiikoon said:


> I think if Sir Ultracool is town watcher then it's really important we keep him alive today/tonight  That way we can definitely see if Tofu gets up to any hijinks





so all of it combined is just sort of. idk.

honestly most likely not really somewhere i'm interested in pushing tomorrow (and there's a handful of people below him who i'd rather look at) but i don't feel that great about him if i discard the metaread, so i feel like i can't put him in the upper half of my list
-m


----------



## rari_teh

i understand how ultracool might look off, but as someone who has wolfed with him before, i can assure you that w!ultracool does not like to drag much attention to himself. v!ultracool, on the other hand, lives to try and be useful to town, even if through crafting plans that wouldn’t work in most worlds (which isn’t too far off his scumgame, only the plans are laid out in scumchat instead). i’ve never seen him as 3p, though.

i’m highly inclined to believe that he’s town here. he might have shifted metas, but i kinda doubt it tbh


----------



## Bluwiikoon

God that reminds me, I'm sad Sir Ultracool did not in fact watch Tofu because I feel like that would have pre-emptively solved some things that happened today :( Theoretically if she's telling the truth, UC would have saw no movement, right?


----------



## rari_teh

Bluwiikoon said:


> God that reminds me, I'm sad Sir Ultracool did not in fact watch Tofu because I feel like that would have pre-emptively solved some things that happened today :( Theoretically if she's telling the truth, UC would have saw no movement, right?


i… think that you’re mistaking watcher for tracker here?


----------



## bruh moment

rari_teh said:


> as someone who has wolfed with him before, i can assure you that w!ultracool does not like to drag much attention to himself. v!ultracool, on the other hand, lives to try and be useful to town, even if through crafting plans that wouldn’t work in most worlds (which isn’t too far off his scumgame, only the plans are laid out in scumchat instead).


this is the read i'm going with as well fwiw


Bluwiikoon said:


> Theoretically if she's telling the truth, UC would have saw no movement, right?


think you're mixing up watcher with tracker

-m


----------



## Bluwiikoon

rari_teh said:


> Bluwiikoon said:
> 
> 
> 
> God that reminds me, I'm sad Sir Ultracool did not in fact watch Tofu because I feel like that would have pre-emptively solved some things that happened today :( Theoretically if she's telling the truth, UC would have saw no movement, right?
> 
> 
> 
> i… think that you’re mistaking watcher for tracker here?
Click to expand...

Oh gosh!!! I think I am confused about what the difference is tbh


----------



## bruh moment

Bluwiikoon said:


> Oh gosh!!! I think I am confused about what the difference is tbh


if i watch you, i see anyone who targets you
if i track you, i see anyone you target


----------



## rari_teh

Bluwiikoon said:


> Oh gosh!!! I think I am confused about what the difference is tbh


watchers see their target’s visitors, trackers see who their target visited


----------



## rari_teh

lol @ the mutual ninjas here


----------



## Bluwiikoon

That explains a lot!! Thank you mewt and rari! ^^ That also explains why UC didn't watch Tofu N1, if I misunderstood his role completely


----------



## Negrek

Oh, also, people pointed out that badges are mentioned in the sign-up thread and such, so Tofu would have known that dead players distributed them was a thing but wouldn't know how it worked if none of the Mafia had info on it in their role PM's. But... she's literally the first person to bring up badges being given away upon death in the entire thread? Why on earth would she claim that as part of her role do that if she's Mafia, none of the Mafia know how badge distro actually works, and none of the Town players have alluded to it? Trying to fish for more info on it by slipping in a reference there? Odd way of presenting it if so, IMO. I'm not understanding the hypothetical play here.

@bruh moment you wanted me to talk about this theory here?



bruh moment said:


> i'm guessing that she just doesn't have one? also, skylar and i were thinking that maybe she was purposefully avoiding claiming colorful scatter, but then later forgot that she'd omitted mentioning it, and then slipped and said the phrase (considering that she'd at first expressly only claimed a vanilla, unflavored badge distribution thing + her oneshot)
> -m


I'm confused, why do you think she would have intended to not mention Colorful Scatter in the first place? Do you think it's something actually very clearly Mafia-aligned she wouldn't want to claim, or...? Or is this not what you actually wanted me to look at?


----------



## Negrek

rari_teh said:


> i understand how ultracool might look off, but as someone who has wolfed with him before, i can assure you that w!ultracool does not like to drag much attention to himself. v!ultracool, on the other hand, lives to try and be useful to town, even if through crafting plans that wouldn’t work in most worlds (which isn’t too far off his scumgame, only the plans are laid out in scumchat instead). i’ve never seen him as 3p, though.
> 
> i’m highly inclined to believe that he’s town here. he might have shifted metas, but i kinda doubt it tbh


That's fair. I don't know much about him at all, so I'm just going by what I've observed here. It's not the strongest scumread I've ever had, I'm also just not liking the other options as well.


----------



## bruh moment

Negrek said:


> Do you think it's something actually very clearly Mafia-aligned she wouldn't want to claim, or...?


in this situation, yep!


Negrek said:


> But... she's literally the first person to bring up badges being given away upon death in the entire thread?


that's also part of the signup post tbh tbh


MampersandF said:


> if you die, on the phase right afterwards, you choose some players and bestow them Badges; the amount of badges you distribute is determined by your role


-m


----------



## bruh moment

Negrek said:


> Trying to fish for more info on it by slipping in a reference there?


by the way


Tofu said:


> So far I'm guessing the badges can only be distributed on someone's death? I kind of doubt there would be an action where it's just like "give a badge to someone once" because that would be a waste of an ability space?


was wondering if this was a possible fish for "can you get badges in non-death circumstances"
-m


----------



## Negrek

bruh moment said:


> that's also part of the signup post tbh tbh


For sure, but why would she be the first to start talking about it once the game actually began? Obviously Mafia play is often not optimal, but it would seem way safer to hang back and wait for more info on this rather than writing it into your claim, when the other people who'd claimed already had felt no need to address it?


----------



## Negrek

bruh moment said:


> Negrek said:
> 
> 
> 
> Trying to fish for more info on it by slipping in a reference there?
> 
> 
> 
> by the way
> 
> 
> Tofu said:
> 
> 
> 
> So far I'm guessing the badges can only be distributed on someone's death? I kind of doubt there would be an action where it's just like "give a badge to someone once" because that would be a waste of an ability space?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> was wondering if this was a possible fish for "can you get badges in non-death circumstances"
> -m
Click to expand...

That's fair! I could see that being general setup speculation or attempting to draw out info.

I will feel pretty bad if Tofu flips Mafia, obviously, but I'm just not convinced.


----------



## Bluwiikoon

I got a low blood sugar right now so that sure explains why my brain feels like a tangle   I gotta hop out to consume some sugar, but I'll try to hop back in as soon as I can if I feel better in time!


----------



## bruh moment

Negrek said:


> Obviously Mafia play is often not optimal, but it would seem way safer to hang back and wait for more info on this rather than writing it into your claim, when the other people who'd claimed already had felt no need to address it?


yeah, i agree that an early claim is on the townier side. we talked about that here though - basically we didn't love that she immediately brought up "but i claimed early!" when she started vaguely coming under fire


bruh moment said:


> we think the early claim is sorta towny on its own, but not, like, especially so. and we're very much of the opinion that whatever town points it did win her were cancelled out and then some by this post, where she points to it as evidence of her own towniness. imo "if i'm mafia, why do i do THIS, huh!?" rarely feels good—very LAMIST vibes and i think these thoughts occur to wolves more often than town.


-m


----------



## bruh moment

Negrek said:


> I will feel pretty bad if Tofu flips Mafia, obviously, but I'm just not convinced.


hahaha, i understand. most of this isn't stuff that made us push for the lynch - that was pretty much the claim itself, really - just other things that made us already  about her
-m


----------



## rari_teh

Negrek said:


> For sure, but why would she be the first to start talking about it once the game actually began? Obviously Mafia play is often not optimal, but it would seem way safer to hang back and wait for more info on this rather than writing it into your claim, when the other people who'd claimed already had felt no need to address it?




in all seriety, though, w!tofu could be assuming that handing out badges was a separate town ability. all of this discussion hinges around a) tofu being mafia and b) mafia not handing out badges, though, and both seem unlikely for me, especially the latter


----------



## rari_teh

bruh moment said:


> was wondering if this was a possible fish for "can you get badges in non-death circumstances"


i don’t see how this information would be more interesting for mafia than it is for town


----------



## RedneckPhoenix

MampersandF said:


> last hour!
> 
> mewt keeps doing accurate vote counts just as I'm about to-


what

you said like "3 hours left" at like 7 and you posted this at 8


----------



## bruh moment

rari_teh said:


> b) mafia not handing out badges,


to be clear, it doesn't really revolve around that. though that admittedly strengthens it (we wouldn't have cased her like this if it were 100% dependent on that) like ... boiled down it's literally just "i have badge distribution + my oneshot! and nothing else" -> "er i have something called colorful scatter, looks like it's the same as badge distribution" -> "oh oops it is actually something else. oh it's what blu said!" wherein she only fully reads through her pm at this last stage

honestly if i think about how my pm is organized i still don't get how this happened without a backtrack, considering that colorful scatter would be bolded and located in a different section of the pm from the badge distribution itself
-m


----------



## Negrek

bruh moment said:


> Negrek said:
> 
> 
> 
> Obviously Mafia play is often not optimal, but it would seem way safer to hang back and wait for more info on this rather than writing it into your claim, when the other people who'd claimed already had felt no need to address it?
> 
> 
> 
> yeah, i agree that an early claim is on the townier side. we talked about that here though - basically we didn't love that she immediately brought up "but i claimed early!" when she started vaguely coming under fire
> 
> 
> bruh moment said:
> 
> 
> 
> we think the early claim is sorta towny on its own, but not, like, especially so. and we're very much of the opinion that whatever town points it did win her were cancelled out and then some by this post, where she points to it as evidence of her own towniness. imo "if i'm mafia, why do i do THIS, huh!?" rarely feels good—very LAMIST vibes and i think these thoughts occur to wolves more often than town.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> -m
Click to expand...

Yeah, idk, don't people say that kind of thing all the time when under fire? "But why would I do X if I were Mafia???" I haven't personally noticed that defense coming from Mafia more often than Town, tbh.

Exciting news, it turns out Myuma's "announcement after you die" power lasts the entire game... so you have one day phase to prepare your message, and then it will be displayed when you die, even if that's multiple days/nights later. idk if anybody else already figured that out, but I had thought it was only shown if they died before the start of the next day.

Anyhow, I've been preparing my last will and testament for MF.


----------



## RedneckPhoenix

i'm genuinely confused did i go to a different timezone somehow


----------



## Ys_

So. Last thoughts. Mr. UC your role is def helpful. i'd recommend not to watch yourself again. pick whichever target you think may be more likely to be killed by mafia. same with doc
it would be great if a cop checked vm just to be sure they are town. or, you know. just do your thing.
mafia or whomever killed hydre may be paralyzed so that's good for us, but still, don't get confident
glgl


----------



## rari_teh

bruh moment said:


> honestly if i think about how my pm is organized i still don't get how this happened without a backtrack, considering that colorful scatter would be bolded and located in a different section of the pm from the badge distribution itself


mine is also structered like that, aye

i still think it’s possible that she retained the details on the interesting part and judged the rest as boring and kinda conflated everything in her head


----------



## JackPK

RedneckPhoenix said:


> i'm genuinely confused did i go to a different timezone somehow


I thought EOD was always 10 Eastern/9 Central


----------



## JackPK

rari_teh said:


> bruh moment said:
> 
> 
> 
> honestly if i think about how my pm is organized i still don't get how this happened without a backtrack, considering that colorful scatter would be bolded and located in a different section of the pm from the badge distribution itself
> 
> 
> 
> mine is also structered like that, aye
Click to expand...

same!


----------



## rari_teh

last tierlist of the Day


Spoiler: tierlist



*sylveon*
rari - this might be illegal but i saw their role pm and can confirm they’re town

*gardevoir*
bruh - unless there were provided fakeclaims, which i highly doubt, the fact that they could correctly cite the town wincon makes them all but conftown

*mawile*
blu - pure as always, his interaction with tofu makes me think v
ultracool - most likely just town watcher, seems out of his scumgame

*swirlix*
keith - his d1 gambit was a sight to behold
negrek - probably just town joat. still a bit iffy here but we vibe.
ysabel - feels very pure. i may be pocketed.

*jigglypuff*
tofu - had many inconsistencies but i chalk all of them up either to genuine fuckups or to her townmeta as per cats
vm - something seems off, but i’m probably just overthinking it since i don’t see anything inherently scummy in his iso
myuma - gives me off pretty much the same vibes she gave town!me in cats. i like her presence and want to see more of her in the game.
mawile - the very definition of null

*elgyem*
stryke - i could bet money that he has something similar to zm’s role in that one old game. do not trust, do not lynch

*hidden power*
zm - poast moar

*dedenne*
jack - is sounding strange and has some weird reads
koko - bad gut feeling, might’ve caught a scumtell


----------



## rari_teh

JackPK said:


> RedneckPhoenix said:
> 
> 
> 
> i'm genuinely confused did i go to a different timezone somehow
> 
> 
> 
> I thought EOD was always 10 Eastern/9 Central
Click to expand...

EoD is 2am UTC


----------



## Ys_

MampersandF said:


> three more hours!
> 
> the votecount remains as it was in the previous count


this was three hours ago ^^;


----------



## RedneckPhoenix

Spoiler: everybody's doin tierlists huh



*green as grass*
me

*clear as glass*
rari
bruh*
mawile

*go to class*
bluwii
ultra
myuma
koko
jack
ysa


*they seem crass*
zm

*bite my ass*
negrek
tofu

*i harass*
stryke


----------



## RedneckPhoenix

Ysabel said:


> MampersandF said:
> 
> 
> 
> three more hours!
> 
> the votecount remains as it was in the previous count
> 
> 
> 
> this was three hours ago ^^;
Click to expand...

it was 2 hours ago!

that post was made at 6:57 pm and it is now 8:55 pm

i did very poorly in multiple classes but math was not one


----------



## bruh moment

rari_teh said:


> i still think it’s possible that she retained the details on the interesting part and judged the rest as boring and kinda conflated everything in her head


yeah. i guess we'll find out in a few, i'm just like "hmm" when like ... wouldn't you look at the other bolded and bullet-pointed action in your pm even if you're skimming 

-m


----------



## Tofu




----------



## rari_teh

two mins to EoD… good luck, my people…
if tofu flips town: *i told you*
if tofu flips mafia: sorry. im sorry. im trying to remove it


----------



## Bluwiikoon

*Tofu *because  BRO


----------



## Ys_

oh then... huh. welp. tbh i'm going off of the time i see on the forums but yeah


----------



## rari_teh

Tofu said:


>


w-what does this mean


----------



## Negrek

=/


----------



## bruh moment

ugh glgl

-m


----------



## Mawile

w-what


----------



## M&F

*The day is over. Stop posting, and hold for results.*


----------



## Bluwiikoon

I'm just  bruh


----------



## bruh moment

Tofu said:


>


wtf its 7m long i can't decode this now,
-m


----------



## RedneckPhoenix

MampersandF said:


> *The day is over. Stop posting, and hold for results.*


seriously what?????


----------



## Mawile

RedneckPhoenix said:


> MampersandF said:
> 
> 
> 
> *The day is over. Stop posting, and hold for results.*
> 
> 
> 
> seriously what?????
Click to expand...

time is fake
ez


----------



## Bluwiikoon

Btw I hope M&F will just allow me to say real quick that I ate a sugary food and I feel better after my low blood sugar


----------



## M&F

Night Two of Tournament Coverage

If you had hoped that the foul play had ended with yesterday's incident... I agree. However, fate disagrees.

And speaking of disagreements, this certainly was the day for them. Many contestants had become worried about trickery behind the scenes, but everyone had their own version of a conspiracy -- and, most precariously, of who would likely be implicated.

By the afternoon, a handful of Gym Leaders had decided that *Viola* was most suspicious. "She's really bugging me", said one of them. Quickly, the discussion went to alarming places... and before anyone could do something truly extreme to settle doubts, she broke into a fit of vile Kalosian laughter.

We may have, by now, gained some insight as to the exact nature of her transgressions, if the mood hadn't become quite so temperamental around here. No respect for due process! The second they had a confession in their hands, they moved on to having blood in their hands.

It certainly is most disqueting that we truly do have some sort of intrigue aimed at spoiling the games, but must we resort to such means to resolve it? Whatever happened to the strength of the bonds between trainers and Pokémon?
-Colress, Researcher, Engineer, and Pokémon Trainer

*Tofu, the Viola, is dead. She was Mafia.

48 hours for night actions.*



Spoiler: final vote count and history



Tofu(7): bruh moment, Ysabel, JackPK, Myuma, Mawile, kokorico, Bluwiikoon
kokorico (2): Vipera Magnifica, rari_teh
Mr. Ultracool(2): Tofu, Negrek
Negrek(1): RedneckPhoenix










Spoiler: ping pong



@Mawile
@RedneckPhoenix
@Bluwiikoon
Herbe
@rari_teh
@Zero Moment
@Mr. Ultracool
@ミ☆ ᴍyᴜᴍᴀ
@Vipera Magnifica
@Stryke
Tofu
@Negrek
@kokorico
Zori
@bruh moment
Hydreigon25
@JackPK
@Ysabel


----------



## bruh moment




----------



## M&F

Day Three Pregame Column

You know, I always used to say that one thing I love about this city is that, as sleepy as it can be sometimes, there's always something unexpected right around the corner, waitin' to happen. Well... today... I think I could've gone without the surprise. All I can say about it, first of all, is that it's a reaaaal bruh moment.

This thing here has readers all over the world, doesn't it? I guess that's one reason to even bother describing what I'm seeing right now. Those of us who are standin' here... probably don't need me to tell them what's going on. It's not like I know what's going on, exactly. All I know is that... it is a doozy.

The roads and pavements are fulla cracks. Power lines snapped on every other block. Forgot something by the windowsill? It's on the ground now... with extreme prejudice. Don't bother picking it up; it's probably covered in broken glass, to boot. That's what I'm seein' with my own two eyes, when I take a look outside the gaping hole that I used to call a window. With a calamity this size, though, more important places than this l'il neighborhood probably took harder knocks... I don't even wanna know how the port is looking right now. And man, don't even talk to me about the Pokémon World Tournament arena. I bet this has something to do with one of them bigshots yet again, too.

Another handful of them turned up dead in the middle of this mess, too... *Cheren*, *Juan*, *Tate, and Liza*, I think, were all of their names. Seems to me like this might be more of that backstage horseplay from yesterday... ah, but I don't care. I also don't care if you were reading this for tournament updates or whatever. I've got a city to worry about right now. Maybe I'll even start displaying genuine emotions... or maybe not.

*RedneckPheonix, the Cheren, has died. He was Town.
Vipera Magnifica, the Juan, has died. He was town.
bruh moment, the Tate & Liza, have died. They were Town.

48 hours for discussion.*



Spoiler: bada pings, bada pooms



@Mawile
RedneckPhoenix
@Bluwiikoon
Herbe
@rari_teh
@Zero Moment
@Mr. Ultracool
@ミ☆ ᴍyᴜᴍᴀ
Vipera Magnifica
@Stryke
Tofu
@Negrek
@kokorico
Zori
bruh moment
Hydreigon25
@JackPK
@Ysabel


----------



## bruh moment

:(


----------



## Mawile

uhhhhhh


----------



## rari_teh

oh my fucking god. rip :(


----------



## Bluwiikoon

Jesus christ!!!!!


----------



## rari_teh

at least y’all lynched a mobster yesterDay… i’ll take solace in hanging around the circus with the fine company of jack and negrek tbh


----------



## Mawile

rari_teh said:


> i’ll take solace in hanging around the circus with the fine company of jack and negrek tbh


what does this mean


----------



## Bluwiikoon

I thiiiink rari is saying that because they all defended Tofu yesterDay? But my head is a bit empty atm ^^; Late night hours for me

Speaking of which, it's 4:20am!!!  I'm having a hard time sleeping


----------



## rari_teh

Mawile said:


> rari_teh said:
> 
> 
> 
> i’ll take solace in hanging around the circus with the fine company of jack and negrek tbh
> 
> 
> 
> what does this mean
Click to expand...

they were my company in tofu’s comfy pocket


----------



## Bluwiikoon

I got kinda pocketed too  Those pockets have Netflix and everything!!


----------



## Mawile

i was about to be pocketed right at the end but i was feeling too much Inexplicable Fear to move my vote off Tofu tbh


----------



## Ys_

Would now be a good time to claim? I may have info


----------



## RedneckPhoenix

assholes


----------



## rari_teh

Ysabel said:


> Would now be a good time to claim? I may have info


if you think your info would help us catch mafia, go for it
i don’t think you’ll be offed before negrek if she’s telling the truth just by saying that you may have info tbh


----------



## Stryke

i got keiths badges


----------



## Ys_

Actually it may not be as useful now that bm is dead since they had the theory about badges, but I wanted to say that I did in fact receive a badge from Herbe


----------



## Ys_

so anyway, that probably means that zori did hand out her badges to someone. which could be troubling considering the amount of deaths today


----------



## Mawile

i haven't gotten any badges


----------



## Stryke

Mawile said:


> i haven't gotten any badges


Imagine having no badges in D3


----------



## JackPK

oof, three town deaths at once is brutal. in a worst-case scenario -- such as if mafia started with five members, say, instead of the four that was hypothesized earlier in the thread -- we could be at LyLo YoLo as soon as toMorrow. ouch.



Mawile said:


> i haven't gotten any badges


same


----------



## JackPK

I guess now is as good a time as any to reveal my free power? it's not very useful on its own, hasn't been useful *at all* yet, and I don't think it helps mafia if I reveal it. but I do think it's possible for us to strategize here in such a way that it can have a positive impact.

it's called Full Metal Scanner, and it allows me to target two people and have them swap their stock of on-hand badges with each other. then I get a report of how many badges changed hands as a result.

naturally, this has done absolutely nothing so far except feed me "0 badges have changed hands" messages (since nobody had any badges until after I got paralyzed), but now that people have badges, I think I can be useful in funneling them from folks with badges to folks with useful actions. it's just that it's so excruciatingly slow (my action takes one night, so it's not until the next night that the recipient can use the received badges) so it runs the risk of having mafia kill whoever's receiving the badges :/


----------



## qenya

Stryke said:


> Imagine having no badges in D3


couldn't be me


----------



## qenya

so, uh. that's an alarming number of deaths, right. assuming the mafia didn't literally get three nightkills, what are our options? - lovers, misvig, serial killer, ??? would mampers include healer clashes, do you think?

what initially jumped to my mind was that bm might be one of those vigs who dies if they don't shoot correctly, since she mentioned her role PM included the word "mafia-aligned". but based off who she was sussing yesterDay, i don't think she would target either rnp or vm in that situation.

if 3ps do give out badges, i wonder what their motivation is. presumably they can't still win after death, unless their roles are really unusual? or was it just mampers choosing recipients at random. hmm.

@Mr. Ultracool , what was your result last night?

@JackPK , how is "Full Metal Scanner" linked to your flavour? it doesn't seem very typical for an ice-type gym leader

@Zero Moment , hi, you've been pretty quiet! what're your thoughts on the causes of the deaths?

@Bluwiikoon , if it wouldn't give your role away, who did you target on N1 and N2?


----------



## Bluwiikoon

I'm conflicted about saying anything, because on one hand I could still be helpful, but on the other I have a sneaking suspicion that the mafia have figured out what I can do  Scary scary!


----------



## haneko

... oh my god. Three town members bumped off in one night?! I feel threatened. O_o

Will probably return later with actual thoughts on the matter.


----------



## qenya

Bluwiikoon said:


> I'm conflicted about saying anything, because on one hand I could still be helpful, but on the other I have a sneaking suspicion that the mafia have figured out what I can do  Scary scary!


Hmm, ok. If the mafia _have_ figured out what you can do, can you think of any reason why they might _not_ have chosen to kill you last Night?

Or, hmm. This should probably have occurred to me sooner, but there's nothing saying VM was actually targeted at all. It's equally possible, perhaps even more likely, that he protected someone and ate the kill for them...


----------



## qenya

Ohhh. hmm. actually something just occurred to me. ignore the question in my previous post for now please.


----------



## qenya

definitely want to hear from Mr UC before doing anything else


----------



## Bluwiikoon

For now, let's be sure to hydrate and consume tasty nutrients! ^^ And sleep if anyone needs a sleep, of course!


----------



## Ys_

kokorico said:


> definitely want to hear from Mr UC before doing anything else


Same here
Also those reactions to my post..


----------



## Bluwiikoon

Ultracooooool-!!!


----------



## JackPK

kokorico said:


> @JackPK , how is "Full Metal Scanner" linked to your flavour? it doesn't seem very typical for an ice-type gym leader


As I have hinted at before, I am not merely Brycen, I am *Brycen-Man*, star of Pokestar Studios! Therefore my flavor is based entirely on Brycen-Man’s Pokestar Studios appearances and not at all on his Ice-type Gym. Full Metal Scanner is a reference to one of the movies Brycen-Man appears in, Full Metal Cop.


----------



## Mr. Ultracool

kokorico said:


> @Mr. Ultracool , what was your result last night?


As it turns meowth, I'm an idiot and submeowting an action completely slipped my meownd...


----------



## Zero Moment

Yikes, that's a lot of dead


kokorico said:


> @Zero Moment , hi, you've been pretty quiet! what're your thoughts on the causes of the deaths?


Let's see, now. It could be single mafia kill, sk, and vig firing all at once. You also pointed out lovers, could be fishers too. But judging from the night before, which also had multiple deaths, I think the flavor matters. Herbe and Hydrei were killed in two separate matters, but here, the three deaths were clumped up together, with evidence of a big fight. Assuming that none of these kills were from lovers, fishing, and nobody claims one, I'm going to bet they all died from the same source. It's possible it was some sort of scum Granny or Veteran, perhaps even in tandem with a scum redirector—in fact, I'm almost certain there's one of the latter in this game.


----------



## IndigoClaudia

I didn't sign up for this right? If i am in this game please lynch me in case i am mafia. Good day.


----------



## JackPK

Zero Moment said:


> Yikes, that's a lot of dead
> 
> 
> kokorico said:
> 
> 
> 
> @Zero Moment , hi, you've been pretty quiet! what're your thoughts on the causes of the deaths?
> 
> 
> 
> Let's see, now. It could be single mafia kill, sk, and vig firing all at once. You also pointed out lovers, could be fishers too. But judging from the night before, which also had multiple deaths, I think the flavor matters. Herbe and Hydrei were killed in two separate matters, but here, the three deaths were clumped up together, with evidence of a big fight. Assuming that none of these kills were from lovers, fishing, and nobody claims one, I'm going to bet they all died from the same source. It's possible it was some sort of scum Granny or Veteran, perhaps even in tandem with a scum redirector—in fact, I'm almost certain there's one of the latter in this game.
Click to expand...

VM claimed (in #133 et al) to redirect actions from his target to himself, so most likely that factors into the fracas at least somewhat if not entirely


----------



## JackPK

er-- I could have been more specific with that phrasing. he redirects actions _that are aimed at_ his target, and puts them onto himself


----------



## Mr. Ultracool

MampersandF said:


> You are *IRIS*. Your Pokémon of choice is *HAXORUS*.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _"Know what? I really look forward to having serious battles with strong trainers!"_
> 
> You are *Mafia*. You win when 50% of all living players are Mafia-aligned, regardless of whether you're alive yourself.
> 
> Your power is as follows:
> -EARTHQUAKE: You haven't had many chances to let Haxorus _really_ let it rip lately, but these people might just get you a good chance to show its full power! Each Night, you may target and kill a player, and if you successfully do so, no players can be protected against nightkills during the next Night as the aftershocks pound in. Only one mafioso can use their power in a given night.


Somemeow, that Flavor seems to indicate the meowve Earthquake, especially considering that it has apparently appeared in MeowFia games run by MF beforehand. Furthermeowre, it might have something in common with the last effect it had?


----------



## Zero Moment

JackPK said:


> Zero Moment said:
> 
> 
> 
> Yikes, that's a lot of dead
> 
> 
> kokorico said:
> 
> 
> 
> @Zero Moment , hi, you've been pretty quiet! what're your thoughts on the causes of the deaths?
> 
> 
> 
> Let's see, now. It could be single mafia kill, sk, and vig firing all at once. You also pointed out lovers, could be fishers too. But judging from the night before, which also had multiple deaths, I think the flavor matters. Herbe and Hydrei were killed in two separate matters, but here, the three deaths were clumped up together, with evidence of a big fight. Assuming that none of these kills were from lovers, fishing, and nobody claims one, I'm going to bet they all died from the same source. It's possible it was some sort of scum Granny or Veteran, perhaps even in tandem with a scum redirector—in fact, I'm almost certain there's one of the latter in this game.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> VM claimed (in #133 et al) to redirect actions from his target to himself, so most likely that factors into the fracas at least somewhat if not entirely
Click to expand...

Hmm, that's a good point, though I'm not sure how well that works with the hypothetical gran/vet. If it _was _complicated by VM, it's possible that the killerinstead had some kind of Rampage ability—that is, they attack a target and everyone who visits that target.


----------



## Mawile

Zero Moment said:


> they attack a target and everyone who visits that target


fwiw this existed in a previous MFia



MampersandF said:


> Zexion was Vivillon, with something of a dual experimental role. I don't remember the proper term for his nightkill power, but it also kills everyone who targets the victim (which, in retrospect, was way broken; there's a reason why this is usually handled as only killing whoever targets the target, and not the target themself)


----------



## Zero Moment

Ah, that's interesting. I was basing my idea off of Town of Salem, which has three of such roles.


----------



## Ys_

yeah, i was thinking about town of salem too.
anyway, i wonder if negrek used any of her powers today? don't think we'll really get anything from trying to guess what the cause of death was. only thing we really have to go off of is reads and interactions, so i'll be back with isos later. tbh the fact that no one has really been saying anything is somewhat concerning, though it could also be bc people are busy


----------



## Negrek

Well, I guess the upside is we confirmed that there's some kind of Mafia faction active this game, so we can stop speculating about that, at least. =/

Let's get things moving again!



Ysabel said:


> anyway, i wonder if negrek used any of her powers today?


I did use one of my abilities last night, but it didn't give me any insight into what went on there.

I was also thinking of the possibility that there's a killpower that gets a person plus anyone else who targeted them that night. Though I'm sighing if MF went, "Well, that turned out to be overpowered. Oooh, but why don't I put it in _this_ game..." Would expect it to be locked behind a badge cost at least, which would seem to make it hard to use unless Tofu *was* able to give badges to her scummates, or maybe Zori sent badges to someone on team maf?

I don't think we can get a whole lot out of speculating about this unless someone has more concrete information about what went on last night.

@rari_teh Towards the end of the last day phase you expressed suspicions about Jack and Kokorico. How are you feeling about them now?

@kokorico You speculated yesterday that if Tofu was Mafia, Bluwiikoon likely was as well. How are you feeling about that now?

@JackPK You also expressed suspicion of Bluwiikoon. Have your feelings there changed?

_Myuma_ is hard to mention, but who did you target with your night action last night? Also, can you ask MF what happens if you target someone who already wrote a will a second time? Do they get to write a new one?


----------



## JackPK

Negrek said:


> @JackPK You also expressed suspicion of Bluwiikoon. Have your feelings there changed?


No change. I'm still not confident about my read, but my read is still that he's more likely mafia than town.

This post from toDay twigs me as weird in particular:



Bluwiikoon said:


> I'm conflicted about saying anything, because on one hand I could still be helpful, but on the other I have a sneaking suspicion that the mafia have figured out what I can do  Scary scary!


If town, Bluwii here is basically just telling the mafia that he "can do" something valuable and thus implicitly that they should kill him, which is kind of bafflingly counterproductive to me. If I read this with hypothetical-mafia!Bluwii in mind, though, it feels like a pretty straightforward attempt to divert scrutiny by trying to appear valuable, but in an ambiguous way (so as to avoid risking a counterclaim?).

-----

Meanwhile, I'm also struggling very hard to not be suspicious of Ultracool again, with the weak-ass excuses he's given for not making a reasonable attempt to get useful Watcher results for two nights in a row now. Still, d1 he did reveal info that was corroborated by others (including VM, who has flipped town), so he _must_ be a legitimate Watcher, so I'm trying to keep that at the forefront of my mind and tamp down my suspicions.


----------



## JackPK

what's the over/under on whether dead chat is screaming "yes Jack!!" or "nooo Jack!!" right now


----------



## qenya

aight, welp, if we're not getting anything from anyone else then I guess I might as well ask that question. Blu, if the mafia _have_ figured out what you can do, can you think of any reason why they might _not_ have chosen to kill you last Night?



Negrek said:


> @kokorico You speculated yesterday that if Tofu was Mafia, Bluwiikoon likely was as well. How are you feeling about that now?


Objectively, to be honest, very similar. None of the reasons I was doubtful about him are any different from what they were yesterDay, and he hasn't done anything toDay to assuage them. I got a bit turned around earlier and confused myself by theorising about things that might have occurred during the night, but really, Jack has a point - Blu's worrying earlier about whether the mafia might have "figured out" his role doesn't make a great deal of sense for him to say aloud, if true.

It somehow got to 1am again so I'll reply to other points tomorrow.


----------



## Zero Moment

oh, Negrek, I forgot to ask yesterDay. Was your oneshot kill mechanically vanilla?


----------



## Ys_

tbh I'm suspicious of Negrek.

I know you claimed JOAT but I honestly don't see any other way in which rnp was killed since he didn't have a visiting role. and he didn't have enough badges for his other ability. so it's unlikely that rnp was killed on the rampage

also, maybe instead of focusing on how we should focus on why

And I'm thinking that question could be misleading. there's a number of reasons why blu could not have been mafia's target yesterday. I think a better question could be if blu has any information he could reveal without actually outing himself. Do you blu? any reads even if indirect?


----------



## rari_teh

Mawile said:


> Zero Moment said:
> 
> 
> 
> they attack a target and everyone who visits that target
> 
> 
> 
> fwiw this existed in a previous MFia
> 
> 
> 
> MampersandF said:
> 
> 
> 
> Zexion was Vivillon, with something of a dual experimental role. I don't remember the proper term for his nightkill power, but it also kills everyone who targets the victim (which, in retrospect, was way broken; there's a reason why this is usually handled as only killing whoever targets the target, and not the target themself)
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> i agree with negrek that if this role were ever to be reused it’d be locked behind badges. judging from my badgepower, the number of badges would probably not be too low, as mine requires 2 but has a very high chance of failing completely and doing nothing but wasting badges.
Click to expand...




Negrek said:


> @rari_teh Towards the end of the last day phase you expressed suspicions about Jack and Kokorico. How are you feeling about them now?


good question. not good. not good at all. in fact, let’s give this game a bit of movement, shall we. *kokorico*


----------



## rari_teh

@Hydreigon25 please refrain from reacting to game-relevant posts


----------



## rari_teh

F for the quote’s formatting


----------



## Bluwiikoon

kokorico said:


> aight, welp, if we're not getting anything from anyone else then I guess I might as well ask that question. Blu, if the mafia _have_ figured out what you can do, can you think of any reason why they might _not_ have chosen to kill you last Night?


Testing the waters I assume! The general consensus yesterday was that we should protect VM, and, well... VM isn't looking very protected right now  YesterDay, I did make a very small soft/breadcrumb based on what happened on N0 and I have reasons to assume that they saw that and decided to block me for now

If claiming is more useful than being coy, I can do that for you guys! ^^ What do you think?


----------



## rari_teh

Bluwiikoon said:


> If claiming is more useful than being coy, I can do that for you guys! ^^ What do you think?


don’t


----------



## rari_teh

ftr i think they killed vm because, since he was indeed town, his plan was too solid
if he survived, the cop could’ve inspected him last Night and put his plan into practice toDay

i have a theory as to why and how three people died last Night, but i can’t really say anything without disclosing more info than i’m currently willing to

in my theory, all three were killed by mafia


----------



## Ys_

queen rari

so you trust that negrek didn't kill rnp somehow?


----------



## rari_teh

Ysabel said:


> queen rari
> 
> so you trust that negrek didn't kill rnp somehow?


i absolutely do uwu

i mean, i’m not completely sure of negrek’s alignment – far from it –, but i believe she isn’t lying when she’s saying she’s a joat
from flavour, nobody commited suicide, so fragile vigs and lovers should be out of the picture, but most importantly all three deaths seem to have come from the same event.


----------



## Negrek

JackPK said:


> Negrek said:
> 
> 
> 
> @JackPK You also expressed suspicion of Bluwiikoon. Have your feelings there changed?
> 
> 
> 
> No change. I'm still not confident about my read, but my read is still that he's more likely mafia than town.
> 
> This post from toDay twigs me as weird in particular:
> 
> 
> 
> Bluwiikoon said:
> 
> 
> 
> I'm conflicted about saying anything, because on one hand I could still be helpful, but on the other I have a sneaking suspicion that the mafia have figured out what I can do  Scary scary!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> If town, Bluwii here is basically just telling the mafia that he "can do" something valuable and thus implicitly that they should kill him, which is kind of bafflingly counterproductive to me. If I read this with hypothetical-mafia!Bluwii in mind, though, it feels like a pretty straightforward attempt to divert scrutiny by trying to appear valuable, but in an ambiguous way (so as to avoid risking a counterclaim?).
> 
> -----
> 
> Meanwhile, I'm also struggling very hard to not be suspicious of Ultracool again, with the weak-ass excuses he's given for not making a reasonable attempt to get useful Watcher results for two nights in a row now. Still, d1 he did reveal info that was corroborated by others (including VM, who has flipped town), so he _must_ be a legitimate Watcher, so I'm trying to keep that at the forefront of my mind and tamp down my suspicions.
Click to expand...

I'm going to need to go back over your argument from about Bluwiikoon from yesterday, I think. Rereading yesterday I felt confident I knew what Blu's role was based on various hints he'd dropped, and I'm _not_ very good at picking up on those things. I have to assume that the Mafia would have to come to the same conclusion, and in light of that I think Blu's statements today make sense. But I want to see what else you think might be going on here.

I'm not in love with Ultracool's play by a long mile, but I think I want to feel out some other avenues today.



Zero Moment said:


> oh, Negrek, I forgot to ask yesterDay. Was your oneshot kill mechanically vanilla?


I'm not 100% on what you mean by that, but I think so. It wasn't "strong" or anything of the like--behaves like a normal nightkill, no additional properties.



Ysabel said:


> tbh I'm suspicious of Negrek.
> 
> I know you claimed JOAT but I honestly don't see any other way in which rnp was killed since he didn't have a visiting role. and he didn't have enough badges for his other ability. so it's unlikely that rnp was killed on the rampage


Hmm, I'm not sure what you're accusing me of here? Do you think I'm Mafia and the Mafia simply have two kill roles on their side? I'm a serial killer/some other 3p and I killed RNP while Mafia got the other two somehow? Something else?



rari_teh said:


> Mawile said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Zero Moment said:
> 
> 
> 
> they attack a target and everyone who visits that target
> 
> 
> 
> fwiw this existed in a previous MFia
> 
> 
> 
> MampersandF said:
> 
> 
> 
> Zexion was Vivillon, with something of a dual experimental role. I don't remember the proper term for his nightkill power, but it also kills everyone who targets the victim (which, in retrospect, was way broken; there's a reason why this is usually handled as only killing whoever targets the target, and not the target themself)
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> i agree with negrek that if this role were ever to be reused it’d be locked behind badges. judging from my badgepower, the number of badges would probably not be too low, as mine requires 2 but has a very high chance of failing completely and doing nothing but wasting badges.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Negrek said:
> 
> 
> 
> @rari_teh Towards the end of the last day phase you expressed suspicions about Jack and Kokorico. How are you feeling about them now?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> good question. not good. not good at all. in fact, let’s give this game a bit of movement, shall we. *kokorico*
Click to expand...

Cool cool. Are you willing to elaborate at all on why?

@Bluwiikoon Just to echo what Isabel asked... Do you have any hunches about the people still in the game? You don't have to reveal your role.


----------



## Negrek

Fuck, sorry, *Ysabel.


----------



## rari_teh

Negrek said:


> Cool cool. Are you willing to elaborate at all on why?


i’m preparing a longpost since i dropped the vote, but i keep getting distracted and not doing it .-.
it will come out at some point, though.


----------



## Ys_

It's ok xD and yeah, I was thinking some kind of 3p but I'm unwilling to vote regardless since the focus should be on mafia.. Also the flavor didn't necessarily sound to me like 'everyone was killed by the same person' but more like 'the cause of deaths were the same as yesterDay's'. Either way, I trust rari and her and bm definitely trusted you so I vibe.


----------



## JackPK

Negrek said:


> I'm going to need to go back over your argument from about Bluwiikoon from yesterday, I think. Rereading yesterday I felt confident I knew what Blu's role was based on various hints he'd dropped, and I'm _not_ very good at picking up on those things. I have to assume that the Mafia would have to come to the same conclusion, and in light of that I think Blu's statements today make sense. But I want to see what else you think might be going on here.


I certainly didn't pick up on any hints, so apparently you are better than me at picking up on things?

My full post was #1115 if you want to look back at it, but basically, the gist of my suspicion is that the only thing Blu has done with any substance to it is come up with a role for {mafia}Tofu as she floundered in trying to cover her self-contradictions. Besides that, his posts have basically all felt like attempts to blend in and echo everyone else without actually contributing any reads or trying to be solve-y or anything like that -- which, granted, could be either mafia or just a townie without ideas, which is why I'm not confident about my read.


----------



## rari_teh

JackPK said:


> the only thing Blu has done with any substance to it is come up with a role for {mafia}Tofu as she floundered in trying to cover her self-contradictions


why do you think he’d do that in the thread instead of scumchat


----------



## rari_teh

rari_teh said:


> my professor who was supposed to be in class went completely MIA and left us hanging, so it’s mafia time ig


happy #tbt y’all

after mulling for hours on end over whether or not i should let the cat out of the bag, i decided it’s probably for the best to make everything i know public. the reasons will hopefully be clear by the end of my next post, which will be the koko casing.

my free power, Fae Trick, is night-delayed vig. every Night i pick one target who will survive the following Day and then expire the following Night.
my badgepower, Misty Terrain (2 badges), cancels all deaths in a Night caused by an action submitted the Night before.

i killed hydrei. i sent in the action N0 and sure as hell they croaked the next Night. that’s why i highly suspected there was no mafia faction before bruh revealed that their role PM mentioned mafia-aligned players – as far as i know, either negrek is lying or there were no mafia kills N1.

on the dawn of D1, i got a message from mf stating that i woke up extremely weary, without the energy to move a single muscle, and because of that i wouldn’t be able to perform any actions during D1 and N1. (this, by the way, should confirm the existence of Day-activated roles.) i thought i was roleblocked, but now i see that’s probably hydreigon’s passive, which was also experienced by jack through flavour on D2.

i sent in a night action on N1 anyway on the offchance that something happened and i was recharged (because i had no real idea what was going on), but (thankfully?) it failed.

i sure targetted someone toNight. i won’t blabber about who it is unless it becomes vital information, i.e. if they become a major wagon. i also won’t be posting tierlists toDay so that mafia doesn’t try anything funny.

originally, due to the lack of deaths on the first Night, i suspected that all kills might be night-delayed. this is the theory i was talking about to keith yesterDay, may he rest in peace. now we know that, if negrek and i are telling the truth – and i sure am –, unless more than one person killed either hydrei or herbe, the first time mafia killed was last Night. three mafia kills, all with the same flavour. i could bet money that this is the work of a cannoneer.

it shouldn’t be needed to say that my role was a large reason for me to keep sussing negrek well into yesterDay, especially considering that it was plausible that herbe was activated alien.

with that out of the way, i guess i can finally bring the longpost on.


----------



## haneko

@Negrek
Haha, that's the downside of having a fancy unicode name, I guess. ^^;

I targeted Ultracool last night. It was going to be UC or Blu, and while I find Blu suspicious, I thought Blu’s suspiciousness could be attributed to bad luck or bad play much more easily. I don't like Ultracool's play for the reasons everyone else has given and I'm fairly sure he's going to get yeeted at some point or another. Sorry, UC.

I went through Blu's ISO and and a few things in there gave me pause for thought. Firstly there is the Tofu thing. That could be attributed to coincidence, but I also noticed that he was trying to discourage people from joining the Tofu wagon, which doesn't look well considering Tofu turned out to be mafia. Blu has also been defending Ultracool on the basis that UC is a watcher, even though whatever UC is doing as watcher hasn't been much of a benefit to town. Essentially, he's looking bad by association with other suspicious folks, as pure as Blu's tone usually is. 

I'm still not completely convinced that we should lynch him, so I'd like to see how @Bluwiikoon  reacts to these accusations (and the accusations of others) before doing anything. Otherwise I'll probably vote Ultracool today, if I'm not convinced by rari's upcoming post on kokorico. I also agree with Ysabel that we should think about why the players were killed last night, not how.

Finally, I might as well claim my second power. It's called *Art Criticism* and allows me to act as a coroner. I can see the role and alignment of any dead player who I've targeted with my free action (for those who don't remember, my free action allows player to write a message that will be displayed if they die). It needs 3 badges to activate, so I don't think I'll be using it any time soon.


----------



## haneko

Negrek - It says in my role PM that yes, if I target a player who has already written a message, they can write a new one


----------



## qenya

Ysabel said:


> tbh I'm suspicious of Negrek.
> 
> I know you claimed JOAT but I honestly don't see any other way in which rnp was killed since he didn't have a visiting role. and he didn't have enough badges for his other ability. so it's unlikely that rnp was killed on the rampage


I don't really understand this. Is your thesis just that Negrek has a kill every night in addition to the main mafia one? If so, (a) why were there _still_ no deaths on N0 despite two attempts, and (b) why would that make Negrek mafia as opposed to, say, a vig? (And, if you think Blu is actually town, (c) with two shots last night, how come the mafia _still_ didn't kill him?)

Also, even if the deaths were caused by that strange kill-everyone-who-visits-your-target role (which there's no evidence for and seems implausible for the balance reasons others have mentioned), we have no particular reason to think RNP didn't have enough badges for his other ability. Hydreigon's badge(s) would have arrived at the beginning of N2 (alongside Herbe's, as you claimed, right?), and as nobody has acknowledged receiving them, it's at least reasonably likely they went to one of tonight's casualties. Unless Hydrei accidentally gave them to the mafia, I suppose.

Altogether, this post makes no sense whatsoever and frankly I'm kinda side-eyeing you for it.



Bluwiikoon said:


> Testing the waters I assume! The general consensus yesterday was that we should protect VM, and, well... VM isn't looking very protected right now  YesterDay, I did make a very small soft/breadcrumb based on what happened on N0 and I have reasons to assume that they saw that and decided to block me for now


I see. Aaaaa this is is so frustrating. I think I'm picking up what you're putting down, I'm just not sure whether to _believe_ it or not. mrgrgr. Your tone is fantastic, I just can't square it with the stuff with Tofu over the first couple of days!

In answer to this:


rari_teh said:


> JackPK said:
> 
> 
> 
> the only thing Blu has done with any substance to it is come up with a role for {mafia}Tofu as she floundered in trying to cover her self-contradictions
> 
> 
> 
> why do you think he’d do that in the thread instead of scumchat
Click to expand...

I don't know about Jack, but the explanation that makes most sense to me is that Tofu's role was a complete fabrication: she started on a fakeclaim, realised she'd dug a hole for herself, and couldn't think how to explain it away. Then Blu's behaviour wasn't really trying to help her figure out what her role was, but actually _performative_: trying to convince the rest of us that there was a perfectly reasonable explanation for what she was saying.

I suppose it's valid to wonder why, if he thought he had a cool fakeclaim idea, he didn't feed it to her privately rather than presenting it himself, but I don't think that's necessarily _unusual_; the two times I've been ingroup mafia here, I've been taken aback by how quiet scumchat is and how little coordination there is about what gets posted in-thread.

The roleclaims happened as I was writing so will give my thoughts on those in just a moment.


----------



## qenya

rari_teh said:


> my free power, Fae Trick, is night-delayed vig. every Night i pick one target who will survive the following Day and then expire the following Night.
> my badgepower, Misty Terrain (2 badges), cancels all deaths in a Night caused by an action submitted the Night before.
> 
> i killed hydrei. i sent in the action N0 and sure as hell they croaked the next Night. that’s why i highly suspected there was no mafia faction before bruh revealed that their role PM mentioned mafia-aligned players – as far as i know, either negrek is lying or there were no mafia kills N1.


Hmmmm. This is an extremely believable claim, and explains a lot of the unsolved mysteries re: night actions etc. It also provides a neat explanation for the differences in flavour, which I like. I guess there's no actual mech evidence to back it up, so rest assured I'll be going through your ISO with a fine-toothed comb for contradictions, but I was townreading you anyway so I'm happy to take this as read for now.

If you don't mind my asking - earlier, just up the page (#1326), you said you were unwilling to reveal this much information. What changed to make you more willing to discuss this now? Also, can you think of any reason why your role might have led Hydreigon's death flavour to be "finely charbroiled corpse"?



rari_teh said:


> originally, due to the lack of deaths on the first Night, i suspected that all kills might be night-delayed. this is the theory i was talking about to keith yesterDay, may he rest in peace. now we know that, if negrek and i are telling the truth – and i sure am –, unless more than one person killed either hydrei or herbe, the first time mafia killed was last Night. three mafia kills, all with the same flavour. i could bet money that this is the work of a cannoneer.


Initially I was dubious about a cannoneer explanation, but with the benefit of your claim it makes a great deal more sense. One thing that makes me question it is their targets. I can see why they would have gone after skytini (strongest, most vocal player) and VM (bodyguard on steroids), but RNP makes less sense, especially considering his role. I also think it still doesn't jive with Blu being town; in my previous post I said it didn't make much sense for the mafia to have two nightkills, believe town!Blu had a strong role and yet do nothing to off him, and that just gets even less plausible if they actually had _three_. (Mr Ultracool looks a little worse, for the same reason.)


----------



## qenya

ミ☆ ᴍyᴜᴍᴀ said:


> I targeted Ultracool last night. It was going to be UC or Blu, and while I find Blu suspicious, I thought Blu’s suspiciousness could be attributed to bad luck or bad play much more easily. I don't like Ultracool's play for the reasons everyone else has given and I'm fairly sure he's going to get yeeted at some point or another. Sorry, UC.


Myuma, I'm not quite sure I understand your rationale here, can you explain this to me? If your role is just to allow your target to publish a message after their death, I would have thought you would be trying to target _townies_ with it above all else.  If you thought Mr UC was more suspicious than Blu, why would you use your power on him, rather than Blu?

I have a comment to make on your badge power too, but I think I'd like to hear the answer to this question first.


----------



## Ys_

> I don't really understand this. Is your thesis just that Negrek has a kill every night in addition to the main mafia one? If so, (a) why were there _still_ no deaths on N0 despite two attempts, and (b) why would that make Negrek mafia as opposed to, say, a vig? (And, if you think Blu is actually town, (c) with two shots last night, how come the mafia _still_ didn't kill him?)


No. I don't think she's mafia. I kind of thought she may be acting on her own, and I thought her role could be something like what zori claimed. Badge-powered serial killer maybe? But yeah, you're right, I can see how that doesn't make sense and besides it would be kind of unbalanced for town. And to reply to the blu question, I was thinking that mafia didn't kill him at night because they would have figured he'd be an easy mislynch with the associative read. I mean, if you think about it, it makes sense to kill both bm and vm since bm was powertowning hard and vm had the bodyguard/lure ability. The kill that doesn't make much sense, at least imo, is rnp's because while he may have had a powerful badgepower, it seemed clear (at least to me) that he didn't have those badges yet. It could be because everyone was reading him as confirmed town, though. idk.



> Also, even if the deaths were caused by that strange kill-everyone-who-visits-your-target role (which there's no evidence for and seems implausible for the balance reasons others have mentioned), we have no particular reason to think RNP didn't have enough badges for his other ability. Hydreigon's badge(s) would have arrived at the beginning of N2 (alongside Herbe's, as you claimed, right?), and as nobody has acknowledged receiving them, it's at least reasonably likely they went to one of tonight's casualties. Unless Hydrei accidentally gave them to the mafia, I suppose.


Um.. fwiw, badges are received during the day phase, actually. I received mine in the middle of the day phase and Stryke just claimed having received RNP's. And Hydre's unfortunate grudge on RNP would probably mean that they sent their badges to someone else instead.



> Altogether, this post makes no sense whatsoever and frankly I'm kinda side-eyeing you for it.


I guess it made sense to me at the time, but maybe it was just me jumping to conclusions again. :/

Also, I want to say rari's claim actually does make a lot of sense and explains why she jumped on zori the way she did after her claim and also explains why she initially was as sus of Negrek as she was. And she did ask the question about anyone else having woke up weary and without being able to move a muscle (which no one seemed to really get at the time, but actually makes a lot of sense with their roleblockerish role).

rari, why did you shoot hydre though? Did you think they were 3p?


----------



## qenya

Ysabel said:


> Um.. fwiw, badges are received during the day phase, actually. I received mine in the middle of the day phase and Stryke just claimed having received RNP's.


Oh. Huh. You're right, I'd forgotten Stryke had mentioned he'd already got RNP's badges... Hmm. My role seems to imply badges can only be sent/received at a phase change, though. Lemme go and check again.


----------



## qenya

kokorico said:


> Hmm. My role seems to imply badges can only be sent/received at a phase change, though. Lemme go and check again.


Okay, yes, it _doesn't _actually require that to be the case, it was just me making a poorly founded assumption. Ugh. Sorry. That also makes my badge power considerably more powerful than I thought, which is irritating because I would've been hinting at it much earlier on if I'd realised. Ah well.


----------



## qenya

Hmm, I wonder if it would be possible for dead players to reveal information by the _time of day_ they distribute their badges...?



Ysabel said:


> And she did ask the question about anyone else having woke up weary and without being able to move a muscle (which no one seemed to really get at the time, but actually makes a lot of sense with their roleblockerish role).


This is true, although it's not quite what Jack said he received:


JackPK said:


> I got my normal expected result, plus the "RNP is mafia" result that RNP told us about, plus this:
> 
> "and furthermore, hmmmadksfhjajkfakdfbasdkhjazzzzzzzzzzt"
> 
> And then it told me I cannot take actions until the night after next.


rari did immediately come up with the solution, though, and then jumped to a consistent conclusion about who killed Herbe, soooo I'm more inclined to just put it down to them reporting/interpreting the flavour slightly differently.


----------



## Ys_

My assumption was that you send during the day if you were killed at night and send during the night if you were lynched


----------



## Ys_

I think I messed up :( sorry town. I don't want to claim my role yet, but I feel less sure about Blu now. And sorry for jumping to conclusions about your role, Negrek..


----------



## Bluwiikoon

Thank you everyone for your patience with me!! ^^ These past two irl days have been a bit of a doozy!



Negrek said:


> @Bluwiikoon Just to echo what Isabel asked... Do you have any hunches about the people still in the game? You don't have to reveal your role.


Hi Negrek! ^^ Admittedly I'm still a bit wary of your JOAT claim, especially since your action last Night apparently didn't turn up anything useful? You did also side with Tofu yesterday I think, but I also got pocketed so I can't fault you too much on that one. koko and Jack also unnerve me with how hard they're pushing at me, but that's probably a natural response feeling to being scrutinised? I know I'm being side-eyed a bit for not doing much this game, but I also admittedly can't remember much that either of them have done. Nor myuma for that matter... (That... could also be my ADHD memory oops)

I feel really good about Ysabel and rari though! :D rari is always a strong player, and the tone from both of them is really good imo. Maybe I'm being pocketed again though, auuughhh-!



ミ☆ ᴍyᴜᴍᴀ said:


> I targeted Ultracool last night. It was going to be UC or Blu, and while I find Blu suspicious, I thought Blu’s suspiciousness could be attributed to bad luck or bad play much more easily. I don't like Ultracool's play for the reasons everyone else has given and I'm fairly sure he's going to get yeeted at some point or another. Sorry, UC.
> 
> I went through Blu's ISO and and a few things in there gave me pause for thought. Firstly there is the Tofu thing. That could be attributed to coincidence, but I also noticed that he was trying to discourage people from joining the Tofu wagon, which doesn't look well considering Tofu turned out to be mafia. Blu has also been defending Ultracool on the basis that UC is a watcher, even though whatever UC is doing as watcher hasn't been much of a benefit to town. Essentially, he's looking bad by association with other suspicious folks, as pure as Blu's tone usually is.
> 
> I'm still not completely convinced that we should lynch him, so I'd like to see how @Bluwiikoon  reacts to these accusations (and the accusations of others) before doing anything. Otherwise I'll probably vote Ultracool today, if I'm not convinced by rari's upcoming post on kokorico. I also agree with Ysabel that we should think about why the players were killed last night, not how.
> 
> Finally, I might as well claim my second power. It's called *Art Criticism* and allows me to act as a coroner. I can see the role and alignment of any dead player who I've targeted with my free action (for those who don't remember, my free action allows player to write a message that will be displayed if they die). It needs 3 badges to activate, so I don't think I'll be using it any time soon.


Hi myuma! ^^ You're right in that Sir Ultracool's power could very feasibly be mafia-aligned, in which case I'm gonna feel really silly for giving him a pass on that. Essentially, I thought his powers could be really handy for town if he could catch suspicious activities happening, but the lack of any results yesterDay and toDay from him seems a bit off. :( All I can really say about the Tofu stuff is uhhhh my bad, I got a bit pocketed and doubted she was mafia up until she posted the Death Note thing. I really wanted to believe that she just misread her role PM...!

I'm feeling strange rn because I remember ms Tofu writing a really detailed post about UC theories, and I think she said something about him being outgroup? I think if someone went back and looked at that, we could get a better idea of how wolf!Tofu and sir Ultracool are aligned, if at all.



kokorico said:


> rari_teh said:
> 
> 
> 
> my free power, Fae Trick, is night-delayed vig. every Night i pick one target who will survive the following Day and then expire the following Night.
> my badgepower, Misty Terrain (2 badges), cancels all deaths in a Night caused by an action submitted the Night before.
> 
> i killed hydrei. i sent in the action N0 and sure as hell they croaked the next Night. that’s why i highly suspected there was no mafia faction before bruh revealed that their role PM mentioned mafia-aligned players – as far as i know, either negrek is lying or there were no mafia kills N1.
> 
> 
> 
> Hmmmm. This is an extremely believable claim, and explains a lot of the unsolved mysteries re: night actions etc. It also provides a neat explanation for the differences in flavour, which I like. I guess there's no actual mech evidence to back it up, so rest assured I'll be going through your ISO with a fine-toothed comb for contradictions, but I was townreading you anyway so I'm happy to take this as read for now.
> 
> If you don't mind my asking - earlier, just up the page (#1326), you said you were unwilling to reveal this much information. What changed to make you more willing to discuss this now? Also, can you think of any reason why your role might have led Hydreigon's death flavour to be "finely charbroiled corpse"?
> 
> 
> 
> rari_teh said:
> 
> 
> 
> originally, due to the lack of deaths on the first Night, i suspected that all kills might be night-delayed. this is the theory i was talking about to keith yesterDay, may he rest in peace. now we know that, if negrek and i are telling the truth – and i sure am –, unless more than one person killed either hydrei or herbe, the first time mafia killed was last Night. three mafia kills, all with the same flavour. i could bet money that this is the work of a cannoneer.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Initially I was dubious about a cannoneer explanation, but with the benefit of your claim it makes a great deal more sense. One thing that makes me question it is their targets. I can see why they would have gone after skytini (strongest, most vocal player) and VM (bodyguard on steroids), but RNP makes less sense, especially considering his role. I also think it still doesn't jive with Blu being town; in my previous post I said it didn't make much sense for the mafia to have two nightkills, believe town!Blu had a strong role and yet do nothing to off him, and that just gets even less plausible if they actually had _three_. (Mr Ultracool looks a little worse, for the same reason.)
Click to expand...

Bro... what if the mafia kills are also delayed, like rari's vig action?   Some kind of delayed cannoneer thing?

In which case, uh... I'm sure worried about the upcoming nights, I'll tell ya that much!


----------



## Bluwiikoon

The only other theory I have to my survival is that mafia have a rolecop and saw my spicy badge-powered action, which does a thing if I get killed. I certainly don't think they want me to activate that one!  (they totally should though, it'll be hilarious!! Trust me!)


----------



## JackPK

rari_teh said:


> JackPK said:
> 
> 
> 
> the only thing Blu has done with any substance to it is come up with a role for {mafia}Tofu as she floundered in trying to cover her self-contradictions
> 
> 
> 
> why do you think he’d do that in the thread instead of scumchat
Click to expand...

Tofu was clearly not playing optimally, why do you assume Blu would play optimally



rari_teh said:


> i killed hydrei. i sent in the action N0


if you are town-aligned why the fuck would you vig someone n0



Ysabel said:


> Um.. fwiw, badges are received during the day phase, actually. I received mine in the middle of the day phase and Stryke just claimed having received RNP's.


hm, my initial understanding of the signup thread was an assumption that badges are distributed at the end of the phase that the dead person tells MF who they want to give them to, but looking back at it, I guess the precise text is ambiguous and it could go either way

-----

I'm thinking about how to use my badge-swapping power tonight and I know I definitely don't want to put anyone in a position to where they'd need to claim that they have a useful action. But I do really want to figure out a reasonable way to try to funnel badges from non-useful people to useful people. How about this: everyone, please let me know if you do NOT want me to consider you for a badge swap. (that can be if you're non-useful + have no badges, useful + have enough badges, or just don't trust me or my claim. please don't elaborate so as not to give info to mafia about which of these buckets you fall into.) stay silent about it if you are OK with me badge-swapping you with someone else. ToNight, I'll swap two people out of those who were silent.


----------



## Bluwiikoon

Jack I get the feeling that you don't trust me, and that you'd probably disregard my swapping preferences (which for now, I'd rather not be swapped!)  Would it help if I fully claimed my badge-powered action?


----------



## Ys_

JackPK said:


> I'm thinking about how to use my badge-swapping power tonight and I know I definitely don't want to put anyone in a position to where they'd need to claim that they have a useful action. But I do really want to figure out a reasonable way to try to funnel badges from non-useful people to useful people. How about this: everyone, please let me know if you do NOT want me to consider you for a badge swap. (that can be if you're non-useful + have no badges, useful + have enough badges, or just don't trust me or my claim. please don't elaborate so as not to give info to mafia about which of these buckets you fall into.) stay silent about it if you are OK with me badge-swapping you with someone else. ToNight, I'll swap two people out of those who were silent.


..this seems a bit convoluted but just to be sure: do you swap number of badges between your two targets or give one person's badges to the other person?


----------



## JackPK

Ysabel said:


> JackPK said:
> 
> 
> 
> I'm thinking about how to use my badge-swapping power tonight and I know I definitely don't want to put anyone in a position to where they'd need to claim that they have a useful action. But I do really want to figure out a reasonable way to try to funnel badges from non-useful people to useful people. How about this: everyone, please let me know if you do NOT want me to consider you for a badge swap. (that can be if you're non-useful + have no badges, useful + have enough badges, or just don't trust me or my claim. please don't elaborate so as not to give info to mafia about which of these buckets you fall into.) stay silent about it if you are OK with me badge-swapping you with someone else. ToNight, I'll swap two people out of those who were silent.
> 
> 
> 
> ..this seems a bit convoluted but just to be sure: do you swap number of badges between your two targets or give one person's badges to the other person?
Click to expand...

I swap them between the two people. So person A gets person B's badges and person B gets person A's badges. The best strategy I can think of to use this power is to try to move badges from people without useful actions to those with them, so this is my attempt at trying to find a way to do that while giving the mafia as little knowledge as possible to work with.


----------



## JackPK

Bluwiikoon said:


> Jack I get the feeling that you don't trust me, and that you'd probably disregard my swapping preferences (which for now, I'd rather not be swapped!)  Would it help if I fully claimed my badge-powered action?


As I've said before, l'm not confident in my negative read of you. Don't claim something valuable just because you want to shift my opinion, but do claim if you think it's more valuable for town to know than it is risky for mafia to know.


----------



## Bluwiikoon

It could be good for my badge action to be out in the open at least, so everyone knows what I'm dealing with here  :D

Using badges, my Gothorita combines its trapping abilities and psychic abilities to broadcast the name of a single mafia member who kills me to the entire thread. If they do indeed have a rolecop like I think, they'll also know that this can't be blocked. >:) Whether they feel like gambling between me using my cantrip and my badge power is up to them! And I _do_ have enough badges, so come at me wolves. It'll be really funny and epic!!  I promise!

I feel it's good for town to know at least, because if I get vigged then I guess it does nothing?  And if they do keep trying to block me, well... at least that means other folks aren't getting blocked! ^^


----------



## Ys_

Oki. Pls don't count me in then

Tier list (quick bc I'm kinda busy)
rari
blu
jack
Negrek
Myuma
Koko
ZM~Mawile~Mr UC~stryke
*Mawile*
He kind of disappeared? Applying pressure here


----------



## Bluwiikoon

@Mawile Would love to hear from you sir Mawile! ^^ I've also noticed you've been quiet toDay


----------



## rari_teh

ok
didn’t manage to finish my kokopost before falling asleep
first of all sorry for dropping in productivity toDay. will do my best to compensate until EoD.



kokorico said:


> If you don't mind my asking - earlier, just up the page (#1326), you said you were unwilling to reveal this much information. What changed to make you more willing to discuss this now? Also, can you think of any reason why your role might have led Hydreigon's death flavour to be "finely charbroiled corpse"?


what changed is that i realized my current target, who will die toNight, might become a wagon. i reckoned it’d be better to claim beforehand so that, if i ever have to disclose my target, most doubts surrounding my claim will probably already have dissipated.

wrt hydrei’s flavour, i have no idea why he was “finely charbroiled”



kokorico said:


> RNP makes less sense, especially considering his role.


iirc he mentioned having mech info that suggested negrek was mafia. if she is mafia, they might have killed him thinking he’s cop or something similar. if she is town, they might have killed him in the hopes of using this eventually to cast shade on negrek.



Ysabel said:


> rari, why did you shoot hydre though? Did you think they were 3p?





JackPK said:


> if you are town-aligned why the fuck would you vig someone n0


i targetted hydrei n0, so i had no material to guess their alignment. i chose to vig them because, regardless of alignment, they tend to cause the thread to derail easily and they are very hard to sort.

without fail, they did cause major thread disruption in the Day they were alive, even becoming a counterwagon at one point. i do not regret shooting them.

it is odd that you’re so surprised that a vig would shoot n0, jack. you were around to witness vm’s vanilla mafia.



JackPK said:


> Tofu was clearly not playing optimally, why do you assume Blu would play optimally


there’s a difference between not playing optimally and playing terribly
tofu fucked up her claim. it happens. this is not playing optimally.
w!blu wrote a fakeclaim for his scumbuddy on the public thread and she 100% went with it. this is playing terribly. (sorry if you’re wolf, blu)
this makes so little sense i can’t help but go  at the people shading blu



JackPK said:


> everyone, please let me know if you do NOT want me to consider you for a badge swap. (that can be if you're non-useful + have no badges, useful + have enough badges, or just don't trust me or my claim. please don't elaborate so as not to give info to mafia about which of these buckets you fall into.)


i do not want a badge swap tyvm

now to write half-life 3 the longpost


----------



## Negrek

Well, a lot certainly happened while I was at work.

Feels like there's a ton of new info out there and not enough time to properly analyze any of it, ugh. Will go back and dig in, but some quick things up front:

@JackPK Do your targets have to be living players, or could you swap badges between a dead player and a living player?

@Bluwiikoon Do you mind saying who you've used your cantrip on?

@Mr. Ultracool _PLEASE_ watch someone tonight. It seems like you're not really feeling the game anymore, which is fine, but even if all you did was send your night action and said what happened the next day it would be a huge help.


----------



## rari_teh

rari_teh said:


> now to write half-life 3 the longpost


but before that.

@Mr. Ultracool since i’m a claimed vig i think it’s very likely that mafia will try to kill me toNight. if the rest of town agrees, i think it’d be a good idea if you watched me toNight. if i die, you’ll essentially have a redcheck in your hands; if i survive, you’ll either have the name of a doctor or a mafia roleblocker. or both.


----------



## Bluwiikoon

Negrek said:


> @Bluwiikoon Do you mind saying who you've used your cantrip on?
> 
> @Mr. Ultracool _PLEASE_ watch someone tonight. It seems like you're not really feeling the game anymore, which is fine, but even if all you did was send your night action and said what happened the next day it would be a huge help.


Last Night I tried to use my cantrip on VM, but I think I got blocked. 

Seconding what you've said to Ultracool!!! ;O; If he _is_ town, we need his skills!


----------



## M&F

sorry I've not dropped the usual routine time checks, folks, my sleep schedule is crying in the club as we speak

three hours left to EoD! although, if the time's been kicking everyone's asses as much as mine, I suppose that might call for a time extension

current votes:
kokorico(1) -  rari_teh (#1321)
Mawile (1) - Ysabel(#1355)


----------



## Negrek

MampersandF said:


> I suppose that might call for a time extension


I would appreciate one, personally.


----------



## Bluwiikoon

M&F, I hope you get some good quality rest soon! I'm also struggling to sleep properly so I feel ya ;o; Make sure you hydrate and look after yourself!


----------



## qenya

Negrek said:


> MampersandF said:
> 
> 
> 
> I suppose that might call for a time extension
> 
> 
> 
> I would appreciate one, personally.
Click to expand...

seconding this


----------



## rari_teh

kokorico said:


> Negrek said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> MampersandF said:
> 
> 
> 
> I suppose that might call for a time extension
> 
> 
> 
> I would appreciate one, personally.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> seconding this
Click to expand...

thirding this


----------



## qenya

not to derail the conversation, but your random signature selected this quote with _impeccable_ timing-!


----------



## Mawile

hello it is 107 degrees fahrenheit here (41 celsius) and i am Suffering
i don't have any thoughts because of said heat and i fully understand if people are suspicious of me because of Lack Of Thoughts

my role doesn't explain any weirdness or anything and also doesn't give me any insight into the actual setup, so claiming it probably wouldn't be super useful


----------



## Bluwiikoon

That's so many temperature wtf!!! Stay safe Mawile ;O;


----------



## Mawile

i read the stuff i missed from earlier toDay and my brain just went "yeah checks out" to everything pretty much lmao


----------



## haneko

Ok, I'm lost as to who to vote for. I don't think there are any good candidates at the moment. Maybe I'll look at UC's ISO if I can be bothered, but it's getting to the end of the Day. I don't have anything new to add to the discussion either.



kokorico said:


> Myuma, I'm not quite sure I understand your rationale here, can you explain this to me? If your role is just to allow your target to publish a message after their death, I would have thought you would be trying to target _townies_ with it above all else. If you thought Mr UC was more suspicious than Blu, why would you use your power on him, rather than Blu?


Because of my badge power. I think targeting suspicious players (tl;dr) those who are likely to get yeeted should be more of a priority for me, seeing as once I let someone write a message, my badge power allows me to do a postmortem of them once they die. I agree that the messages themselves would be more helpful in letting town members tell us what they want, and so I don't see it as a big deal who I target.

Tbh it would make more sense for me to target as many players as possible, regardless of what I think their alignment is, but my brain wasn't big enough to realise that right away. On a related note, if you'd like me to use my power on you because you've got something to say, give me a poke and I'll happily do that.

Anyway, time to catch some Zs...


----------



## qenya

Mawile said:


> hello it is 107 degrees fahrenheit here (41 celsius) and i am Suffering
> i don't have any thoughts because of said heat


understandable tbh, stay cool



Negrek said:


> Feels like there's a ton of new info out there and not enough time to properly analyze any of it, ugh.


big mood. not really sure where to start, but uh, guess i should say something in case we don't get that extension. diving in at random, then-

@JackPK , following on from my post #1344, can you confirm whether or not your block message mentioned you being "weary" or "unable to move" in addition to the keysmash?

@Ysabel , earlier you mentioned you were planning to read some ISOs, did you manage to find anything? Or did you not have time to look in the end?

I've not turned up anything in rari's ISO so far that contradicts her claim, although I wasn't really expecting to. It has occurred to me that her role is not at all AI - she could well be telling the complete truth about it yet still be mafia - but eh.


----------



## JackPK

Negrek said:


> @JackPK Do your targets have to be living players, or could you swap badges between a dead player and a living player?


Oh, good idea that I hadn't thought of! My role PM just says "two targets" and doesn't specify. I'm asking MF now.



MampersandF said:


> three hours left to EoD! although, if the time's been kicking everyone's asses as much as mine, I suppose that might call for a time extension


holy fuck I thought EOD was still 24+ hours away. extension please yes



kokorico said:


> @JackPK , following on from my post #1344, can you confirm whether or not your block message mentioned you being "weary" or "unable to move" in addition to the keysmash?


In addition to the keysmash, it gave some flavor text that described how my scanner "caught a bad case of the short circuits" etc., but it did not include the exact phrases "weary" or "unable to move". I'm assuming the flavor text is tailored specifically to the flavor of the person affected by it, so since my night action is tech-themed, I got tech-themed flavor text.


----------



## M&F

well, seems we have a sweeping positive, so: *24-hour extension. EoD will take place at the usual time, tomorrow.*


----------



## Negrek

MampersandF said:


> well, seems we have a sweeping positive, so: *24-hour extension. EoD will take place at the usual time, tomorrow.*


This post watered my crops. Thanks, MF.


----------



## Ys_

I didn't, Koko. Or I started to but then had to do something irl. Basically, was looking at some of Tofu's interactions (hindsight is nice) and saw Mr UC more or less following Tofu's lead when claiming but then got a bit derailed. Basically:

Tofu: I want to claim bc my role isn't very useful but won't yet bc no one else has
UC: oh yeah mine isn't useful either but claiming may expose powerful roles to maf
Tofu: aight I'll claim anyway bc wynaut *proceeds to claim*
UC:ok, sure, I'll claim too *proceeds to claim as well*
RNP: where's Stryke? 
UC: oh yeah, might be a good idea to vote inactives
VM: my my, UC is very eager to vote *proceeds to be sus of UC*

And then I had to go and as you can see my mind wandered from Tofu interactions to UC interactions and I'm unsure if any of it is AI bc UC may just be a bit oblivious/trusting or outgroup trying to signal to the ingroup *shrug*

Agree with the time extension btw


----------



## Bluwiikoon

PLAY OF THE GAME: M&F


----------



## rari_teh

kokorico said:


> I was going to chew people out for revealing stuff this early in the game, but actually I'm starting to wonder whether the traditional received wisdom of "avoid hinting at your role, even vaguely talking about how powerful it is, to stop the mafia figuring out the best targets" is still valid? it seems like many actions have a cost in badges to use, which means they're useless unless you can successfully indicate to your townie allies how useful it would be for them to distribute theirs to you. I don't think I'm quite at the point of wanting to actually claim anything, but... hmm. anyone want to try to talk me into it or out of it?


this may or may not be koko trying to change metas. judging by how paranoid e tends to be i’m more willing to believe this is mafia trying to nudge town into giving valuable info.



kokorico said:


> hmm... i also noticed the problems rari/skytini/ysabel are pointing out with zori, but it seems to me a little too good to be true. zori is an excellent mafia player and I just can't see her involuntarily giving up this much evidence against herself. i know i tend to jump to this conclusion an awful lot, but i'm wondering if it may be worth considering the possibility that she's currently an activated alien?





kokorico said:


> i don't have a great sense of where i stand on anyone else yet, sorry. except possibly blu, who seemed extremely pure of heart, but then again he always does. i also haven't set up my usual spreadsheet yet so that's definitely hindering Thought Formation. gonna go back and reread vm, at least, tomorrow





kokorico said:


> With fresh eyes, I think Zori's behaviour yesterday was less blatant than it seemed at the time. I think possibly I was misled by the fact that everyone started talking about it immediately, but in context it wasn't really as much of an obvious I Am Scum as i was thinking. so I reckon I'm comfortable voting *Zori*, especially since there don't seem to be any viable counterwagons forming to Mr Ultracool, who I still think is pinging more town than scum.


one interesting pattern is that koko seems to directly defend town on d1 when e wolves. zori was 3p, but in the eyes of the ingroup it’s pretty much the same thing in this situation



kokorico said:


> I gotta say, I was astonished by both Seshas' and Herbe's flips. I was assuming that if Seshas was 3p at all she was an activated alien, and when I reread overnight I came round to the view of scumleaning Herbe (because his ISO mostly consisted of joke-FoSes, on me and others). So that was a surprise. I'm almost at the point of wondering if there's an ingroup at all, though maybe it's a bit premature to be thinking about that.





kokorico said:


> Sorry, "ingroup" was not quite the right word. What I meant is "coherent mafia faction", i.e., basically the the same thing as myuma just suggested, that there's just the town and a whole load of third parties. Like I said, though, I don't think I'm necessarily at the point of really believing this, it's just speculation for now.


since i killed hydrei, i had good reason to suspect that there was no mafia. the same cannot be said of koko. in hindsight this reads like mafia trying to steer conversation into pointless setup spec.



kokorico said:


> I guess the question we'd need to ask to differentiate the two possibilities is... in the world where Negrek is mafia, Hydrei was probably vigged, so is there a reason why the vig would have gone after him? It would have to be because of his tone, right? That would also imply the hypothetical vig didn't pay attention to the posts I quoted above, or didn't interpret them as possible cop softs. So I'd be interested in getting a quick straw poll of who did or didn't interpret them that way, to see whether it's something that a vig really ought to have noticed, or just my overactive pareidolia.


is it just me or is e openly fishing for a vig here? whoever didn’t reply that they saw hydrei’s posts as a PR soft would be the vig! this didn’t work out because my kill was submitted before d1, but mafia didn’t know that. all what they knew is that they were not responsible for hydrei’s death



kokorico said:


> Now... Having re-read most of Tofu's ISO, there are actually a couple more things that stand out to me as evidence for the Tofu/Blu w/w theory that I haven't seen anyone else mention yet. First off, her very first post contained this, which he immediately responded to:
> 
> 
> Tofu said:
> 
> 
> 
> Hey uh... Does anyone know when the times of the day and night phases end? Sorry if I missed it somewhere.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Bluwiikoon said:
> 
> 
> 
> The phases end at 2am UTC! ^^
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> In isolation I wouldn't give that a second thought: she asked a simple question and he answered it. But it starts to become a bit more odd when they establish a pattern of call-and-response.
Click to expand...

this really does not make any sense? blu immediately answered a meta question from tofu, ergo w/w? the only way i can interpret this is as an incredibly flimsy way of grounding an artificial SR on a townie through prolonged association, but even under that scenario this casing is especially weak



kokorico said:


> Of the two of them, I think I'd prefer to vote for *Bluwiikoon*. Why Blu, and not Tofu? We know, thanks to Mr. Ultracool, that Blu definitely performed an action on N0. Either, as VM says, Blu attempted to target me and was redirected to VM, or less likely, VM is lying/also mafia and Blu targeted him directly. There's any number of things that action could have been, but it happened before any deaths occurred, so it can't possibly have a badge cost. Speaking as the person he (maybe) tried to target with it, I'm not sure I want him to get off another shot.


once again, this is an especially flimsy grounding for a fake SR. koko seems to think that the very fact that blu has a night action and tried to target em at a previous Night should imply that he is mafia and/or worse than tofu if w/w.



kokorico said:


> The suspicious part is that she only "discovered" the second action after Blu inexplicably figured out exactly what it was, and then she appeared almost _immediately_ after his post to acknowledge and confirm it, in a way that he'd previously done to several of _her_ posts. I don't really see how that happens without some sort of coordination between them.





kokorico said:


> currently roughly reading rari & skytini as either v/v or w/w, and more likely v than w.





kokorico said:


> I suppose it's valid to wonder why, if he thought he had a cool fakeclaim idea, he didn't feed it to her privately rather than presenting it himself, but I don't think that's necessarily _unusual_; the two times I've been ingroup mafia here, I've been taken aback by how quiet scumchat is and how little coordination there is about what gets posted in-thread.


it’s interesting how all of your reads in this game were grounded around mafia having high coördination among them, but you seemed to change your mind as soon as i mentioned that w!blu providing tofu with a plausible fakeclaim didn’t make any sense



kokorico said:


> oh, this'll be good. always interesting to hear what people think my "meta" is.


if i’m not mistaken, your scumtell is being confident. it’s not like you’re not paranoid as wolf – you sure are –, but as town you tend to flail a lot and be very self-assured when it comes to your alignment. as soon as people put you low on their tierlists, i bet that you as town would at the very least question them. but you didn’t. then toDay, when i cast my vote on you without longposting, if you were town, i’d be damned if you wouldn’t go after me. but you all but pretended you weren’t being a candidate for lynching

in related news, i vibe with the standing counterwagon


----------



## Stryke

Ysabel said:


> RNP: where's Stryke?


Here I am


----------



## Stryke

If we're having trouble coming up with wagons, I volunteer as tribute


----------



## Mawile

Stryke said:


> If we're having trouble coming up with wagons, I volunteer as tribute


i thought we weren't voting you off because then you get your powers


----------



## rari_teh

Ysabel said:


> I didn't, Koko. Or I started to but then had to do something irl. Basically, was looking at some of Tofu's interactions (hindsight is nice) and saw Mr UC more or less following Tofu's lead when claiming but then got a bit derailed. Basically:
> 
> Tofu: I want to claim bc my role isn't very useful but won't yet bc no one else has
> UC: oh yeah mine isn't useful either but claiming may expose powerful roles to maf
> Tofu: aight I'll claim anyway bc wynaut *proceeds to claim*
> UC:ok, sure, I'll claim too *proceeds to claim as well*
> RNP: where's Stryke?
> UC: oh yeah, might be a good idea to vote inactives
> VM: my my, UC is very eager to vote *proceeds to be sus of UC*
> 
> And then I had to go and as you can see my mind wandered from Tofu interactions to UC interactions and I'm unsure if any of it is AI bc UC may just be a bit oblivious/trusting or outgroup trying to signal to the ingroup *shrug*
> 
> Agree with the time extension btw


tbh this is very on-brand for v!ultracool imo


----------



## Bluwiikoon

I'm nervous about the possibility of ever yeeting Stryke because his powers could very well be something alieny  It all seems a bit sus!


----------



## rari_teh

i still think stryke is that one weird old mfia role that zm randed years ago, in which he’s a VT who gets reborn as a serial killer with oneshot killproof upon being lynched

by which i mean i don’t want to kill stryke ever


----------



## Negrek

Ehh, I didn't want to say anything quite yet, but I don't want this counterwagon to go too far and waste time/effort. I inspected Mawile N0 and he flipped Town.


----------



## Bluwiikoon

Negrek said:


> Ehh, I didn't want to say anything quite yet, but I don't want this counterwagon to go too far and waste time/effort. I inspected Mawile N0 and he flipped Town.


I feel like wolf!Negrek wouldn't offer this up  Not unless they're w/w


----------



## Stryke

Mawile said:


> Stryke said:
> 
> 
> 
> If we're having trouble coming up with wagons, I volunteer as tribute
> 
> 
> 
> i thought we weren't voting you off because then you get your powers
Click to expand...

Tee-hee :^)


----------



## JackPK

JackPK said:


> Negrek said:
> 
> 
> 
> @JackPK Do your targets have to be living players, or could you swap badges between a dead player and a living player?
> 
> 
> 
> Oh, good idea that I hadn't thought of! My role PM just says "two targets" and doesn't specify. I'm asking MF now.
Click to expand...

"living players only" she says

-----

@kokorico Unless I have overlooked putting something down on my spreadsheet, you haven't made any roleclaim or obvious hint yet. Given that you're the most prominent wagon so far today, is there anything you can share to persuade us otherwise and/or that would be helpful after you're yeeted?

I'm bogged down at work a bit at the moment but later tonight I will do some ISOing and decide where I want to place my vote for now. Koko has been blank enough that I don't really have a mental read on em yet and I want to remind myself of what e's said, and there are also one or two other folks I have a gut reaction of suspicion toward whom I want to check out again to see if there's anything there to support my gut before I point any fingers.


----------



## JackPK

JackPK said:


> is there anything you can share to persuade us otherwise


er, *persuade us not to yeet you, rather. rephrased the first sentence and forgot to correspondingly rephrase the second to fit


----------



## rari_teh

JackPK said:


> @kokorico Unless I have overlooked putting something down on my spreadsheet, you haven't made any roleclaim or obvious hint yet. Given that you're the most prominent wagon so far today, is there anything you can share to persuade us otherwise and/or that would be helpful after you're yeeted?


i… don’t know if this is wise, considering koko only has one vote
e’s only the most prominent wagon because the counterwagon, which also has a single vote, has just been confirmed to have a greencheck


----------



## Ys_

*Koko*


----------



## Ys_

Koko seems to try to be grasping at straws tbh. E tried to twist my words too :P unless both Stryke and I were lying lmao. Plus it did seem weird that no one moved to Koko after both rari and vm did. Seems like e could have been a good counter-wagon but everyone else seemed uncoordinated.


----------



## Negrek

Well, from my perspective there's probably 3-4 more non-Town players in some combination of Mafia and 3p. Stryke also appears to be something non-Town, or if Town now not likely to stay that way after dying. We might have to do something about him eventually if he's explicitly anti-town and we therefore need him to die to win, but I would prefer to see 2+ non-Town flips before we really go there. Of course, if he's just straight Mafia he's crafted a brilliant defense!

At the start of the day, I was pretty much thinking Jack and/or Koko were Mafia, based on the fact that they not only did not vote for Tofu but actively pushed for a Bluwiikoon lynch. I still think it's possible for Blu to be Mafia, but I think the info they've given so far has been consistent with a particular Town role, and one the Mafia would be happy to make into a lynch scapegoat. To my mind, the most weird thing Blu's done is definitely hand a fakeclaim on a platter, which coud be a totally towny thing or could be a very strange Mafia play. I'm not very swayed by the argument that he also answered one of Tofu's other questions and don't get how him performing an action N0 that was at least not an immediate nighkill. 

I was pretty underwhelmed by Jack's roleclaim at first because it's super NAI (MF has definitely done a good job of including those this game, ugh) and if anything badge manipulation seems most useful to the Mafia, who may have limited ability to pass on badges to each other upon dying. However, I'm not sure why he chooses to swap two town players N1 if he's Mafia; if Mafia I'd expect him to be swapping with someone Mafia-aligned to siphon off any badges given out. He does at least seem to have targeted Hydreigon for sure, since he was the first to bring up the paralysis thing, which was corroborated by rari, and I think it's unlikely they're Mafia together. I like his stated logic in voting for Bluwiikoon a bit better, too; Blu's question about whether VM blocks in addition to redirecting was pretty odd, because N0 Blu was the one redirected, and I don't know why he'd have call to believe he'd been blocked at the same time...?

One thing that does bother me a bit is I'm not yet seeing how Kokorico would fit into a team of any sort? Like if rari were mafia I could imagine something like [rari/Ultracool/Bluwiikoon/less active], with some flex in a couple of those slots. With Kokorico I may need to simply read more, but I'm not recalling a great deal of commentary from other people outside of rari and some murmurings from bruh moment at the end of yesterday. Would we just be looking at Kokorico and some combination of the people who haven't posted much? Koko + still Jack + some combo of people who haven't posted much?

If you're voting for Koko, who else do you think is Mafia with em? 

--


JackPK said:


> "living players only" she says


Ah, that's disappointing, but thanks for checking.

--



ミ☆ ᴍyᴜᴍᴀ said:


> Negrek - It says in my role PM that yes, if I target a player who has already written a message, they can write a new one


I think being able to use your ability twice on someone might come in handy later; thanks for asking. I think you're right that generally you probably want to spread your ability around as much as possible to get the most use out of it. Rather than the most suspicious people, I think it might be best to target people who you think are likely to be killed, either because they sound like someone the Mafia would want gone or because people generally suspect them but you personally don't... Hopefully that group includes the most people likely to give good info upon dying who are also likely to actually die.

I'm also rather worried by the fact that your badge ability is supposed to tell the role _and alignment_ of somebody dead. Stryke sounds like someone who could end up changing alignment upon death, and a couple of other people have claimed some form of posthumous role, but I don't like the idea that one of the dead Towns could start killing people from beyond the grave.

--

@Zero Moment

Sup. Is there anyone you feel suspicious of or would be inclined to vote for?


----------



## rari_teh

Negrek said:


> If you're voting for Koko, who else do you think is Mafia with em?


i won’t personally comment on that because obviously one of the people i would cite is the one who is set to die toNight
i encourage this discussion, though


----------



## JackPK

koko ISO



Spoiler: giant pile of NAIs that still felt worth mentioning






kokorico said:


> a possibility I've not seen mentioned yet: there was no N0 kill because the mafia's nightkill has a badge cost.


koko was the first to suggest this, so it's something to keep in mind, but I think we don't have enough information to determine which faction it indicates (if any). if it's true, it leans towny (mafia has no reason to want to tip town off as to the reason their kill didn't happen, if mafia knows why) but if it's false, it could go either way (town innocently speculating, or mafia trying to casually lead town down the wrong path). we don't know whether it's true or false although I think the general sentiment is that we suspect a cannoneer, in which case it would be sort of true-but-not-the-whole-story?

(wow why did I just write 100+ words to say "NAI")



kokorico said:


> re: roleclaims, I am a terrorist again, obviously! :D


TMIclaiming? we've seen folks do this both jokingly and "jokingly" in past games. not indicative but perhaps worth noting.



kokorico said:


> *bird jesus*
> kokorico
> 
> *flying high*
> RNP
> rari
> Jack
> Herbe
> 
> *feathered friends*
> Ultracool
> skytini
> VM
> 
> *altitude undecided*
> Mawile
> Ysabel
> 
> *roosting for now*
> Bluwiikoon
> Tofu
> 
> *grounded*
> zori
> 
> **confused chicken noises**
> Hydreigon
> 
> *poast moar*
> Negrek
> Stryke
> Zero Moment
> myuma


{colors are mine not eirs; yellow for 3p} tierlist quoted for posterity, but in general I don't think there's ever much to glean from looking back at tierlists after their maker flips. town have no insider info and mafia, if they're playing correctly, will have interspersed their teammates randomly throughout so as to avoid giving town any fruitful info if/when they die. still, worth holding onto for posterity's sake.





Spoiler: stuff that's NAI now but might help sort people later






kokorico said:


> {context: at this time, koko said e was reading zori as potential activated alien}
> 
> to be absolutely clear, if the wagons at eod are zori/ultracool i probably would go for zori, assuming nothing comes up between now and then to change my view. it's a _risk_, sure, and i wanted to make sure it got vetted and didn't just fly under the radar, but i don't think any of the reasons to scumread her are actively _wrong_


_if _koko dies and flips mafia, this looks bad for ultracool... if koko is town, though, NAI on ultracool



kokorico said:


> Very impressed by rari's effortpost on Negrek. On rereading I was thinking some of the same things about her quizzing RNP about his role, so it's good to see that I wasn't just being paranoid. I don't agree that being pro-abstention is necessarily a scumtell for Negrek (though it's true that she would _know _she was in a position to propose abstention without people considering it a scumtell), but everything else makes sense to me.


another post that might help sort folks? if koko is town, probably NAI all around, but if koko is mafia, this probably suggests Negrek is town?



kokorico said:


> Of the two of them, I think I'd prefer to vote for *Bluwiikoon*. Why Blu, and not Tofu? We know, thanks to Mr. Ultracool, that Blu definitely performed an action on N0. Either, as VM says, Blu attempted to target me and was redirected to VM, or less likely, VM is lying/also mafia and Blu targeted him directly. There's any number of things that action could have been, but it happened before any deaths occurred, so it can't possibly have a badge cost. Speaking as the person he (maybe) tried to target with it, I'm not sure I want him to get off another shot.


if koko flips mafia, this pretty well clears blu, and if blu flips mafia, this pretty well clears koko. but if whoever flips first flips green, I don't think this can say anything about the alignment of the other. so they might be v/v, w/v, v/w, but not w/w



kokorico said:


> I think I'm gonna go reread Tofu's original claim sequence one more time quickly, because we seem to be remembering it slightly differently, but I really don't see how you can say that she "fucked up her roleclaim all by herself". As I recall it, the part people were initially finding odd was that she seemed to be saying she only had one action other than the badge distribution, unlike everyone else; as Negrek pointed out, that isn't really AI in itself. Then she explained that she had misread her role PM and discovered that she had a second action (the badge _re_distribution), having previously confused it with the after-death badge distribution that everyone gets; again, that's a perfectly understandable mistake. The suspicious part is that she only "discovered" the second action after Blu inexplicably figured out exactly what it was, and then she appeared almost _immediately_ after his post to acknowledge and confirm it, in a way that he'd previously done to several of _her_ posts. I don't really see how that happens without some sort of coordination between them.
> 
> {snip}
> 
> I think on balance I'm going to switch to *Tofu*, because I'm not going to be around for EoD, don't know what might happen between now and then, and don't want to risk the possibility of a non-Tofu non-Blu wagon somehow arising. But I'm still not at all convinced by the v!Blu arguments so far.


again, if koko flips mafia this pretty well clears blu, and if blu flips mafia this pretty well clears koko. but again, I do still think v/v is also a possibility here.





kokorico said:


> Nothing much to say on the nightkills that hasn't already been said. I subscribe to the hypothesis that Herbe was the alien and was offed by he mafia, and it's entirely plausible that someone would have vigged Hydreigon. It occurs to me that if we're correct in those assumptions and about what Hydrei's role was, the vig has been paralysed and will be unable to make a kill tonight. Plan accordingly.


The talk about the deaths is probably NAI, but pointing out the vig potentially being paralyzed is interesting. I thiiiiiiink it leans slightly towny (I can't really picture a world in which mafia finds this useful to publicly point out, but otoh I'm also struggling to picture a world in which mafia finds it useful to keep it hidden) but I'm not confident about that.



kokorico said:


> bruh moment said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> kokorico said:
> 
> 
> 
> What about the town wincon do you think confirms the existence of a mafia faction? Because I'm looking at it now, and I'm not seeing it at all. I suppose it's just about possible that Mampers phrased different people's wincons differently, but that would be an exceptional level of bastardry.
> 
> 
> 
> the part that says we win when all scum are dead? scum does mean “independents,” it means mafia. in a town vs independent setup it would likely say “opposing factions” or something instead. idk why we have to question the very basic foundation and semantics of the game every time for no reason tbh.
> -q
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Oh, good, it does actually say the same thing for you. thank god. big TL on you for that.
Click to expand...

reasonably solidly townreading koko in this interaction. it's _possible_ mafia!koko could go out on a limb to argue with someone e knows is a townie about whether the word "mafia" is or isn't used in the exact phrasing of the town wincon (something the townie would surely know better than em!) in hopes of gaining towncred if e isn't immediately proven wrong, but I think that's too reckless to be plausible (though not to be ruled out entirely).

overall I think I am townleaning koko moderately strongly

if I'm wrong and koko is scum, though, I think this ISO indicates scum team would be tofu/koko/ultracool/???, definitely would not include blu, and probably would not include negrek (and, by extension, mawile, since negrek vouches for him).

I have other ISOs I want to do tonight but this post is getting very long and holy fuck it's 1:30am already and I started this before midnight, so here's this one. hopefully i return with More Post soon, if not it's bc I will have fallen asleep


----------



## JackPK

JackPK said:


> tofu/koko/ultracool/???


sorry, tofu/koko/_probably _ultracool/???

didn't mean to accidentally imply mafia!koko meant definite mafia!ultracool. just probably.


----------



## JackPK

ZM ISO is almost entirely setup spec so I don't have much to comment on, only questions



Zero Moment said:


> {snip} However, I have a third scenario, where Herbe himself was not actually targeted for death. Now, Zori claimed to have a drawback passive, and I'd bet that Herbe did too. Y'see, Neigborizers, Masons, and Cultists—and there's no way to know which Herbe actually was—all tend to have the downside of dying when they try to recruit Mafia members.  For reasons I'll likely get into tomorrow, I think _this_ is what killed Herbe, and then Hydrei prob just took the scumkill.


Hmm, I don't think you ever came back and addressed this. Obviously we know now Negrek killed Herbe, but was this just a guess or do you have mechanical info to suggest Herbe was a recruiting role? (Were you yourself recruited?   )



Zero Moment said:


> {snip} a scum redirector—in fact, I'm almost certain there's one of the latter in this game.


What makes you say that?



Zero Moment said:


> oh, Negrek, I forgot to ask yesterDay. Was your oneshot kill mechanically vanilla?


Where are/were you going with this?


----------



## JackPK

Ultracool ISO



Mr. Ultracool said:


> {snip, RNP talking about his broadcasting-miller role}
> 
> Well, my night action gives me precisely zero info, normally, so I can check that one toNight ^


wait what

how does watcher give you "precisely zero info"? watcher gives like, the _most_ info out of any role short of a full cop or a tracker



Spoiler: String of Tofu/Ultracool quotes early on in D1






Mr. Ultracool said:


> Tofu said:
> 
> 
> 
> Hey uh... Does anyone know when the times of the day and night phases end? Sorry if I missed it somewhere.
> 
> Okay well, I just want to say, I didn't block the N0 kill. And I have no badge-costing abilities, but I can choose who to give badges to if I die! I also have a one-shot role (not badge-costy) but I'm going to hold off on saying what it is for now, because, no one else is really claiming. Just, don't give me your badges (if that's even a thing people can do here idk how badge work).
> 
> 
> 
> *Should we claim? Because I really could claim, meow.*
Click to expand...




Tofu said:


> I don't have a problem with claiming because my role isn't super powerful (but I guess potentially could be, once, if I have some information, which I cannot obtain myself). I would be okay with it for me but it makes sense if people are worried about exposing their roles to the mafia members. *I think it'd be a nice change of pace to just have everyone claim D1 but don't think we'll get everyone to do that, lol.*





Mr. Ultracool said:


> Tofu said:
> 
> 
> 
> don't have a problem with claiming because my role isn't super powerful
> 
> 
> 
> Same. Nonetheless, *claiming might allow the Mafia to pick between PRs they want gone* instead of having to guess...
Click to expand...




Tofu said:


> *Anyway, I'll claim because I don't have a problem with people knowing*, and it sounds like I wouldn't be a prime target atm:
> 
> I think mine like a one-shot ability duplicator: with my photography skills, I can choose a person to copy their action. Then, the next night or day phase (it said night or day? Are there day actions?), I will use that action. It could be useful if I know for sure who I am copying, but could also just fail if people fake roleclaim, so I'm a bit hesitant about it (especially now early game). Like I said, it's only a one-shot as well.
> 
> Just for reference in case people missed my other post: when I die, I can give two badges to someone of my choosing.





Mr. Ultracool said:


> *Well, if you claimed, I'll have to do so too, meow, I guess*. I can visit people at night and see who visited them that night. Sadly, I won't see their allegiance or anything beyond who they visited...
> That said... Bluwiikoon, would you mind telling meow what action you targeted Vipera Mafnifica with?


(emphasis mine)


is this openwolfing? this feels like an attempt at manufacturing an early-claim trend in hopes townies will be fooled and go along with it



Bluwiikoon said:


> Vipera Magnifica said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Bluwiikoon said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mr. Ultracool said:
> 
> 
> 
> Well, if you claimed, I'll have to do so too, meow, I guess. I can visit people at night and see who visited them that night. Sadly, I won't see their allegiance or anything beyond who they visited...
> That said... Bluwiikoon, would you mind telling meow what action you targeted Vipera Mafnifica with?
> 
> 
> 
> Bwuh? I didn't even target VM!
> 
> Do we happen to have... a bus driver...!?
> 
> For the record, I'd like to stay quiet about my power for now ^^
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Did you by any chance happen to target kokorico?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I sure did! ^^
Click to expand...

this interaction pretty well confirms Ultracool's role as watcher but doesn't confirm his alignment



Vipera Magnifica said:


> Mr. Ultracool said:
> 
> 
> 
> That said... Bluwiikoon, would you mind telling meow what action you targeted Vipera Mafnifica with?
> 
> 
> 
> Why were you so interested in the _action_ that dear Blu used to target me? It seems a bit forward to ask him to claim his role so soon.
Click to expand...

VM has a point



Mr. Ultracool said:


> RedneckPhoenix said:
> 
> 
> 
> where the fuck is stryke
> 
> 
> 
> Meow about we lynch an inactive player for lack of a better option?
> *Stryke*
Click to expand...

I said this then and I'll say it again now, suggesting an inactive yeet at only 15 hours into D1 is not pro-town (also, if Ultracool dies and flips mafia, this probably clears Stryke? at least until/unless Stryke gets an alignment change when he dies and gets his powers, if he's telling the truth about that)



Mr. Ultracool said:


> Bluwiikoon said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RedneckPhoenix said:
> 
> 
> 
> still rubs me the wrong way i say we put a watcher on tofu
> 
> 
> 
> @Mr. Ultracool Are you down for this? ^^
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Meowell, either that or the Earthbadgecopplan would be fine by meow
Click to expand...

shaking my damn head. went out of his way to do the convoluted plan nobody understood or liked instead of following in-thread suggestions to watch the person everyone sussed who later turned out to be mafia.

could be the actions of an overthinking townie but there's also a glaring likelihood he was trying to deflect from having to watch his scummate



Mr. Ultracool said:


> kokorico said:
> 
> 
> 
> @Mr. Ultracool , what was your result last night?
> 
> 
> 
> As it turns meowth, I'm an idiot and submeowting an action completely slipped my meownd...
Click to expand...

and then there's this

I don't like this at all

placing my vote on *Mr. Ultracool* for the time being


----------



## JackPK

Ysabel ISO is almost entirely full of measured, neutral posts that are not strong indicators in either direction as far as I can tell



Ysabel said:


> hhh I already made the mistake of {bussing sheeping} mewtini once and still think that tofu being mafia doesn't make sense. Like sure, there's been the inconsistencies but does that make her scum for sure? There's still time to discuss this.. no need to be rash. Also tofu as mafia would implicate a number of people which doesn't make that much sense? Don't know why mafia would try that hard to lynch her but maybe they think she could be a big threat if she used her ability right, kind of like how Mistyx ended up being such a help with her own ability in ooc.


if Ysabel is mafia her repeated defenses of Tofu look bad, but taken holistically with Ysabel's other posts it feels equally much like townie trying to be careful? idk

(to avoid confusion, I fixed bussing -> sheeping based on her later comments)



Ysabel said:


> bruh moment said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ysabel said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Also tofu as mafia would implicate a number of people which doesn't make that much sense?
> 
> 
> 
> what do you mean?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> well, just thining on if tofu is mafia then who could be her team. As I see it, blu for the reasons already mentioned, how he tried to help her out. It also possibly implicates VM for also defending her or maybe not outright defending but not considering the possibility that she may be maf? And possibly rari for the defense (and tbf the seeming flailing. Which sorry rari but it doesn't look too good :( )
Click to expand...

if Ysabel is mafia this may indicate Blu and rari are town?

I got nothing except those if->thens and a generalized vibe of "careful townie" that I can't point to any one particular post to explain my vibe

tentatively putting Ysabel in my townie pile for now


----------



## JackPK

ok it is 3:45 am and I have ISOed everyone I didn't have a read on. here's my tierlist:

*me*
JackPK

*strong townleaning*
myuma - claim is easily provable and imo not plausible on scum. as soon as someone who's supposed to have made a will dies, we will know whether she's telling the truth
Negrek
Mawile - via Negrek's inspection

*moderately townleaning*
Ysabel
kokorico

*don't know what to think*
Zero Moment - no thoughts posts empty
rari - has been giving me slightly scummy vibes for two days now AND YET her claim explains everything satisfactorily. gotta ISO her sometime later when it's not 3:45 am and I'm not exhausted

*slight scumlean*
Bluwiikoon

*strong scumleaning*
Mr. Ultracool

*don't yeet, corpse might turn evil*
Stryke



I'm thinking scumteam could be Tofu/Ultracool/{Bluwii if I'm right, koko if I'm wrong}/{rari or ZM}?????


----------



## qenya

rari_teh said:


> if i’m not mistaken, your scumtell is being confident. it’s not like you’re not paranoid as wolf – you sure are –, but as town you tend to flail a lot and be very self-assured when it comes to your alignment. as soon as people put you low on their tierlists, i bet that you as town would at the very least question them. but you didn’t. then toDay, when i cast my vote on you without longposting, if you were town, i’d be damned if you wouldn’t go after me. but you all but pretended you weren’t being a candidate for lynching


Got it. For what it's worth, I didn't ask you about your scumlean on me because you'd already explained why you were holding it: you'd found some stuff in my tone that you thought was incriminating, and you said you'd go into more detail before the end of the Day, which you've now done. I didn't really see any point in questioning you before then. I think the only other person who's put me low on a tierlist is Ysabel, which seemed to me to be just sheeping the stronger player if she's town / jumping on a realistically possible misyeet if she's a wolf. (And skytini I guess, but she was also upfront about it being based on tone, and died before anyone could ask her to elaborate.) And more generally, I learn less from asking about people's reads on me than from asking about their reads on other people, since I already know my own alignment and can't perform an association read on myself.

Now that you've made your longpost, I can't say it makes me feel very differently about you; perhaps a little better. What you've said is understandable and I can follow your thought process, even though I know you're wrong, so I'm inclined to read it more as genuine misdirected tunnelling (something I can entirely empathise with!) than an opportunistic push at a misyeet. It seems that a lot of it is derived either from inadvertent misinterpretations of what I was trying to say, or preëxisting disagreements between us, mostly about Blu's alignment. For example: "koko seems to think that the very fact that blu has a night action and tried to target em at a previous Night should imply that he is mafia". Not what I was trying to get at; I _already_ believed Blu was mafia, for unrelated reasons that I'd outlined earlier that Day, and was talking about which of him and Tofu would be the more useful yeet.

I think it would be a waste both of my time and of yours to go through the rest of your post point-by-point, but if you have something specific to ask about then I'm at your disposal.


----------



## qenya

JackPK said:


> @kokorico Unless I have overlooked putting something down on my spreadsheet, you haven't made any roleclaim or obvious hint yet. Given that you're the most prominent wagon so far today, is there anything you can share to persuade us otherwise and/or that would be helpful after you're yeeted?


Probably says something about this game that I'm notable for NOT roleclaiming. smh smh.

I don't think it would be wise to be totally forthcoming when the new EoD is a fair bit off, but I'll do so if we get to this evening and I'm still the leading wagon. For now I will say that my free action is totally useless, and that I have softed my badge action in a way that seems incredibly blatantly obvious to me but apparently nobody's picking up on.


----------



## Zero Moment

Negrek said:


> Sup. Is there anyone you feel suspicious of or would be inclined to vote for?


Let's see what I've got rattling around in my head.
The whole Tofu/Blu affair was weird as hell. Not sure whether they're wolf partners but there sure was a weird string of bad(?) play around it.
Speaking of bad play. UC, what the hell. I thought he was town after D1 but since then I can almost believe he's been deliberately being unhelpful. If I had to vote, it would be here.
Stryke is almost certainly 3p.
rari- I would think a poisoner-role would be scum indicating but unless they were legit taking a full mafia role and claiming it to be town—which would be bold as hell—the claim actually makes a lot of sense? wrt the badge power. Last night's kills could have been an Arsonist instead of a Rampage.
Negrek seems legit, Myu too I guess. Neg being legit means Mawile must be too, unless they're the luckiest godfather or something. Actually, what was the specific result on that? Town, not mafia?
Jack is okay I guess.
Ysabel and Kokorico are an entirely blank spot in my mind. I'm going to need to look them over tomorrow.
I _used_ to be suspicious of VM, but he flipped town and the hypothesises I had been working on lie broken.


JackPK said:


> Hmm, I don't think you ever came back and addressed this. Obviously we know now Negrek killed Herbe, but was this just a guess or do you have mechanical info to suggest Herbe was a recruiting role? (Were you yourself recruited?   )


I mean, he directly claimed 3p Neighborizer. Which is a recruitment role. (No, I wasn't recruited.)



> What makes you say that?


One of my moves directly references outside redirection.



> Where are/were you going with this?


Was trying to figure out what exactly had happened that night. I knew there were shenanigans afoot, but I wasn't sure on which end.


----------



## Bluwiikoon

Negrek said:


> Blu's question about whether VM blocks in addition to redirecting was pretty odd, because N0 Blu was the one redirected, and I don't know why he'd have call to believe he'd been blocked at the same time...?


Just to clarify on this - I thought VM was a Jailer at first, and that if he jailed koko and there was also no nightkill, it didn't look good for koko. ^^ That's why I asked!

I had a specific flavour of Jailer in a previous game too, where anyone trying to target the person I jailed would instead target me. I assume that's just how Jailer normally works? Either way, we know that wasn't VM's role now


----------



## qenya

requested extension
- Negrek
- kokorico
- rari_teh
- JackPK

posted but didn't request extension
- Mawile
- Bluwiikoon
- myuma

didn't post between extension proposal and announcement
- Zero Moment
- Mr. Ultracool
- Stryke
- Ysabel

is this anything? probably not


----------



## Ys_

UC - watcher
Mawile-- confirmed by Negrek
Negrek - JOAT
Myuma-some form of coroner who allows the target to write a last will (actually sounds really useful for town)
rari - delayed vigilante
Jack - badge swapper
ZM- no claim
Blu-no claim
Koko- no claim
Stryke-- something that gains power after death

Anyway I have the impression that I've been useless this game, especially if mafia really has a cannoneer. If it helps sort people out, I am a doctor. My main ability is detect. It allows me to heal my target but it has a setback which I'd rather not mention since it might help mafia. And I used my badge power already. To clarify, one of the badges I received was from Hydre, I'm guessing from having correctly guessed their ability. I didn't want to claim having received any yesterDay since I thought mafia may have a badge-stealing power.

Do we still think that? Maybe that was one of Tofu's abilities? It could be Jack's, but he's been pretty open about wanting to be useful so probably not.


----------



## Ys_

Anyway, you may say what you want Koko but your associations seem a bit flimsy. You say I may be mafia for defending Tofu but I wasn't the only one. And you say I'm the only person that had you at the bottom of my tier list and yet bm and vm seemed to be sus of you. And they both died and ended up being town. And VM was also defending Tofu and he flipped town. So yes, maybe some of the people who defended Tofu were mafia but if everyone defending Tofu was maf, then that would make Jack, rari and Blu mafia too. Anyway, if I'm following what rari is implying, that means that one of those people will die tonight so we'll see and that's probably that.

As for m!Koko's maf team, unsure. since mafia seems to be really uncoordinated. I would say from an outsider's perspective, that Blu rari and I could be a team together but I know I'm not mafia. And if I was, like I said, i wouldn't have chosen RNP as a target but Mr UC since his role can be really useful. Regardless of how he plays. Because a Watcher could find a killer out more effectively than whatever RNP was. 

*Zero _Moment *by poe


----------



## qenya

Ysabel said:


> You say I may be mafia for defending Tofu


I... huh? When did I say that? I certainly don't remember it, and I can't find it in my ISO. I would be surprised if I _had_ said it, as it's certainly not been reflective of my opinion at any stage in this game; you were solidly in my nullpile up until your posting toDay.

Can you explain why you're voting for Zero Moment? I'm not sure I follow your process of elimination.


----------



## Ys_

I thought that was what you were implyng.

Either way, my poe is:

Negrek is more or less confirmed.
Mawile has a green check from Negrek
rari is delayed vig and unless something weird happened somewhere her claim and actions make sense
blu is ??? honestly i have an idea of what he may be if he's telling the truth but it may not matter anyway
you are also ??? but no one else seems to be willing to vote for you
zm is ??? and i have no idea of what they could be
uc is uc. is there a point in starting a wagon on him? plus his role could be very useful if used well
myuma has a role that could be very useful for town if used well
stryke can't be lynched for reasons
i'm me so it would be weird for me to vote for myself lol
jack is badge exchanger and his role makes sense. may not be AI but i'm willing to trust him. also i know from experience that he has reliable plans (2r1b)

so basically the only two possible wagons today are you and zm unless someone is faking a claim which someone may as well be. but no one except for rari seems to be willing to vote today so xD i'm just offering the alternative wagon. oh and there's the 1 vote for uc. so three wagon ig

---
unrelated: sorry btw, don't mean to offend anyone. if i sound conflictive it's just me playing the game, not personal ^^


----------



## M&F

I'm a little late to it, but, six hours left!

current votes:
kokorico (1) - rari_teh (#1321)
Mr. Ultracool (1) - JackPK (#1397)
Zero Moment (1) - Ysabel (#1406)


----------



## JackPK

Zero Moment said:


> JackPK said:
> 
> 
> 
> Hmm, I don't think you ever came back and addressed this. Obviously we know now Negrek killed Herbe, but was this just a guess or do you have mechanical info to suggest Herbe was a recruiting role? (Were you yourself recruited?   )
> 
> 
> 
> I mean, he directly claimed 3p Neighborizer. Which is a recruitment role. (No, I wasn't recruited.)
Click to expand...

Ah, I remember him claiming 3p but didn't remember him claiming any more specifically than that.


----------



## Bluwiikoon

I'm not sure if I'll be here at EoD so I'll throw in a vote for *kokorico* out of safety. The vibes, bro!!


----------



## haneko

*Ultracool*

Not sure if creating two competing wagons is optimal play, but... I'm fairly sure now that Blu isn't mafia, and I'm still not 100% convinced about kokorico (I suppose I'll ISO him at some point). I'm pretty sure on how I feel about Ultracool though; like ZM said, at this point it seems like Ultracool is actively trying to be unhelpful to town.


----------



## Mawile

honestly i was gonna write a Thoughts Post but i started it last night and then fell asleep, and then people wrote the stuff i was already gonna say

tl;dr of it was that i like ZM and UC the least out of the current group
ZM hasn't really contributed a whole lot other than trying to seem useful in speculating about how the deaths occurred (see posts 855, 1306, 1311, 1402)
UC could just be mafia watcher trying to cover himself up as town watcher, since he claims to have watched himself N1 despite us telling him not to and then forgetting to send in a night action last Night. it's also Weird that he wanted to die so badly when he's both a watcher and supposedly has some way of getting alignments


Mr. Ultracool said:


> You're assuming that the Mafia didn't target me-owth of fear that I'd find them, it seems. Personally, I'd hope they'll kill an inforole like meowself sooner rather than later. Also, I can actually get Alignmeownts after all, but in a weird way...





Mr. Ultracool said:


> it would be better if I hadn't watched meowself rather than someown else - thus making that the best course of action and the one the Meowfia would expect, *meowking it better for them to kill an inforole like me*


he also tried to drag in Myuma into his bad self-targeting plan, which could have been an attempt in trying to get Myuma to waste her night action for a night


Mr. Ultracool said:


> ミ☆ ᴍyᴜᴍᴀ said:
> 
> 
> 
> Speaking of claims, my non-badge ability lets my target write a message on the modpost if they die, so I'll be targeting Zori tonight.
> 
> 
> 
> Wait a moment - meowhaps you should target me if we are going with my meowtlandish plan to get me killed to find a member of the Meowfia?
Click to expand...




Ysabel said:


> plus his role could be very useful if used well


he's not using it well at all tbh from what he's claimed in thread, so either (1) he's town and is just not being helpful in the slightest or (2) he's using properly as mafia and lying about his actions to try and cover himself up


----------



## M&F

oh god, I thought I sent the three hour post

ahem


----------



## rari_teh

are we really letting it rand?

i don’t know if i’m comfortable going through this night without a watcher looking at me or ysa


----------



## Mawile

so 2 for koko, 2 for UC, and 1 for ZM

i'm not particularly vibing with a koko vote atm tbh, which leaves me with the options of UC or ZM to vote for, both of which i would be personally fine voting for right now
so i suppose i'll just do a *Zero Moment* vote just to even things out for now. (VoteOn, apply pressure to the ZM, etc etc)


----------



## Mawile

rari_teh said:


> i don’t know if i’m comfortable going through this night without a watcher looking at me or ysa


how much faith do you have in UC being town watcher as opposed to mafia watcher


----------



## rari_teh

Mawile said:


> rari_teh said:
> 
> 
> 
> i don’t know if i’m comfortable going through this night without a watcher looking at me or ysa
> 
> 
> 
> how much faith do you have in UC being town watcher as opposed to mafia watcher
Click to expand...

based off my experience wolfing with him in cats, i’d say i’m 80~90% sure he’s town


----------



## Zero Moment

there's still 90 minutes left for Day, right?
my main action is Iron Defense, which is a bodyguarding ability. I'm protected from one kill at night, instead of retaliating against a killer, and I can keep guarding after that defense is gone. The reason I've been focused on Herbe is that I was supposed to be protecting him N1. That's why I initially suspected he tried to recruit a Mafia member. After Negrek claimed the kill, I was suspicious that I had been redirected or Witched, though now that I've taken a step back it's possible I was just blocked instead.


----------



## Zero Moment

rari_teh said:


> are we really letting it rand?
> 
> i don’t know if i’m comfortable going through this night without a watcher looking at me or ysa


I wouldn't trust UC to make a good decision at this point tbh. In fact, yeah, I'll put my vote on *Ultracool*, who's been reacting to the thread but hasn't posted since Wednesday.


----------



## Negrek

Ugh. I've been rereading on kokorico and not finding much, honestly? And Ultracool is only looking worse to me as time goes on. rari being insistent he's Town is the only thing keeping me from immediately voting him, and... I'm still leaning that way, tbh. Obviously I've managed to vote wrong 100% of the game and spent a considerable amount of time arguing myself out of a Tofu lynch yesterday, but. Wishing there was some way to resolve Koko/Blu/Jack without lynching one of them, but nothing is immediately coming to mind, here.



Zero Moment said:


> there's still 90 minutes left for Day, right?
> my main action is Iron Defense, which is a bodyguarding ability. I'm protected from one kill at night, instead of retaliating against a killer, and I can keep guarding after that defense is gone. The reason I've been focused on Herbe is that I was supposed to be protecting him N1. That's why I initially suspected he tried to recruit a Mafia member. After Negrek claimed the kill, I was suspicious that I had been redirected or Witched, though now that I've taken a step back it's possible I was just blocked instead.


We've got an hour left now. Also, you're saying you're bulletproof, and you also have a free action that allows you to bodyguard someone?

I am boggling because you, specifically, getting blocked or redirected strikes me as really strange. Double-checked my kill power and all it says is "target player dies," which definitely doesn't indicate to me that it would get around any protections.


----------



## Negrek

Oh, yeah.



Zero Moment said:


> Negrek seems legit, Myu too I guess. Neg being legit means Mawile must be too, unless they're the luckiest godfather or something. Actually, what was the specific result on that? Town, not mafia?


Town specifically.


----------



## Negrek

Yeah, I'm going to put it at *Mr. Ultracool* for now, for all that I'm not feeling super confident. If he flips 3p we don't learn much, but if he's Mafia that looks bad for both rari and Blu, I think?

I guess rari's take on Koko's scumbuddy will die tonight, and their flip may give us some info about alignments. I am still not sure who this is going to be, besides maybe Jack???


----------



## Mawile

Zero Moment said:


> The reason I've been focused on Herbe is that I was supposed to be protecting him N1. That's why I initially suspected he tried to recruit a Mafia member.


why protect Herbe on N1 though, we learned D1 that he was 3p


----------



## Zero Moment

Negrek said:


> Zero Moment said:
> 
> 
> 
> there's still 90 minutes left for Day, right?
> my main action is Iron Defense, which is a bodyguarding ability. I'm protected from one kill at night, instead of retaliating against a killer, and I can keep guarding after that defense is gone. The reason I've been focused on Herbe is that I was supposed to be protecting him N1. That's why I initially suspected he tried to recruit a Mafia member. After Negrek claimed the kill, I was suspicious that I had been redirected or Witched, though now that I've taken a step back it's possible I was just blocked instead.
> 
> 
> 
> We've got an hour left now. Also, you're saying you're bulletproof, and you also have a free action that allows you to bodyguard someone?
> 
> I am boggling because you, specifically, getting blocked or redirected strikes me as really strange. Double-checked my kill power and all it says is "target player dies," which definitely doesn't indicate to me that it would get around any protections.
Click to expand...

It's the action that protects me, but yes. That's why I asked you, to see if you had bypassed me, or if I was the one messed with.



> Town specifically.


Okay, that's nice and specific.


----------



## qenya

Ugggh. ok. really sorry for dropping the ball on this, have just not really been feeling mafia today.

So I guess my choice is between ZM and Mr Ultracool, then? if I don't want to be yeeted. hhhh. ok.

right, so, the way I'm looking at it, we have two claimed healers (ysa and zm), and not a lot to distinguish them beyond the different mechanics of their claims. @Zero Moment , @Ysabel , is there _anything_ either of you would be willing to share about your other previous targets, beyond zm having targeted herbe on n1?

as for ultracool, hmm. i think i've mentioned this already but my thought on the matter is that his n1 fiasco was very within his towngame... but the failure to do anything on n2 is a reason to side-eye. i think in isolation i would prefer to go for zm, but let's see if anything comes up from my night action question.


----------



## Zero Moment

Mawile said:


> Zero Moment said:
> 
> 
> 
> The reason I've been focused on Herbe is that I was supposed to be protecting him N1. That's why I initially suspected he tried to recruit a Mafia member.
> 
> 
> 
> why protect Herbe on N1 though, we learned D1 that he was 3p
Click to expand...

At the time I had taken him at face value that he was just a Neighborizer, even if 3p. It seemed like something that could be useful to town, and it didn't occur to me until after that he could be one of the more sinister variants.


----------



## rari_teh

if i’m not wrong we’re at ultracool (4), zm (2) and koko (2) aye?

*zero moment*


----------



## Mawile

Zero Moment said:


> at face value that he was just a Neighborizer


so did you miss the part where neighborizing takes 3 badges and that he wouldn't have been able to use it since nobody died n0, and Tofu wouldn't have likely given him any badges since she was mafia



Herbe said:


> I'm selfaligned and have a limited neighbourizing power but it costs 3 badges so I doubt it'll see the light of day.


----------



## Mawile

Zero Moment said:


> Was trying to figure out what exactly had happened that night. I knew there were shenanigans afoot, but I wasn't sure on which end.


inb4 this was zm trying to figure out what negrek was capable of to determine if she should be nightkilled lmao


----------



## Zero Moment

Mawile said:


> Zero Moment said:
> 
> 
> 
> at face value that he was just a Neighborizer
> 
> 
> 
> so did you miss the part where neighborizing takes 3 badges and that he wouldn't have been able to use it since nobody died n0, and Tofu wouldn't have likely given him any badges since she was mafia
> 
> 
> 
> Herbe said:
> 
> 
> 
> I'm selfaligned and have a limited neighbourizing power but it costs 3 badges so I doubt it'll see the light of day.
> 
> Click to expand...
Click to expand...

No? Tofu getting lynched hadn't even happened yet, either. I had actually sent in my action to guard Jack prior that night, but going back through the thread I saw that VM had been planning to visit him that night, so I targeted the next person that seemed to have a decent claim, iirc. (and MF reacted to the second one, so it wasn't a case of a missed action)


----------



## Negrek

kokorico said:


> right, so, the way I'm looking at it, we have two claimed healers (ysa and zm), and not a lot to distinguish them beyond the different mechanics of their claims. @Zero Moment , @Ysabel , is there _anything_ either of you would be willing to share about your other previous targets, beyond zm having targeted herbe on n1?


...yes, I second this.


----------



## Mawile

Zero Moment said:


> so I targeted the next person that seemed to have a decent claim, iirc.


why not the watcher lmao


----------



## qenya

Blu, I see you reacting, what do you think of ZM's claim?


----------



## Mawile

Mawile said:


> Zero Moment said:
> 
> 
> 
> so I targeted the next person that seemed to have a decent claim, iirc.
> 
> 
> 
> why not the watcher lmao
Click to expand...

for reference, Ultracool claimed watcher in #119 and "some way of getting alignments" in #306, and either of these claims by themselves seem more worthy of a protect than a badge-requiring neighborizer. on top of that, he already proved he's a watcher with the Blu/VM/UC exchange about who targeted who

it's not like he was super quiet about being a watcher either, he like constantly mentioned it on the same day that Herbe mentioned being a neighborizer


----------



## Bluwiikoon

kokorico said:


> Blu, I see you reacting, what do you think of ZM's claim?


Mmmmmm the more this convo progresses the more uneasy I feel  It's almost like ZM is scrambling a bit to justify why he targeted Herbe?


----------



## Zero Moment

Mawile said:


> Zero Moment said:
> 
> 
> 
> so I targeted the next person that seemed to have a decent claim, iirc.
> 
> 
> 
> why not the watcher lmao
Click to expand...

I thought about it and reasoned that watcher is a low priority target for mafia.



kokorico said:


> is there _anything_ either of you would be willing to share about your other previous targets, beyond zm having targeted herbe on n1?


targeted bruh n0 and stryke last night—if you want my reasoning for the latter, I didn't want the mafia activating him


----------



## Negrek

Really don't like swapping votes this late in the game, but ZM's claim is not adding up and I am willing to give Ultracool one more chance at this.

@Mr. Ultracool Please use your ability tonight! On someone other than yourself!

*Zero Moment*


----------



## Zero Moment

Mr. Ultracool said:


> You're assuming that the Mafia didn't target me-owth of fear that I'd find them, it seems. Personally, I'd hope they'll kill an inforole like meowself sooner rather than later. Also, I can actually get Alignmeownts after all, but in a weird way...


no shit, I straight up missed this post.
Also, UC still has not shown up to defend himself in the slightest.


----------



## Negrek

Also, if I die tonight, what I said in my will about my N2 action is inaccurate; I had to write it before EoD1 but ended up changing my mind about my target. I used the same ability, just not on either of the two players I said I was considering in the will.

Wanted to clarify because it would make last night's events even weirder if I'd chosen one of my original targets, and I don't want to cause confusion.


----------



## Zero Moment

I don't know if it'll help this late, but I might as well claim my badge power, too. My Magnet Bomb is a killing ability that specifically states it bypasses redirection, which is why I've been certain a mafia redirector or witch has been in play.


----------



## qenya

I think I'm going to go for *Zero Moment* too. It took a full half-hour to state his previous targets, neither of which required much explanation, and during the interim period he was clearly reading the thread and even responded to later posts.

If this is _wrong_, and he is town, I think this should implicate ysabel - both for having a pretty similar role, and for starting the wagon on him.


----------



## Ys_

I'm honestly torn but ugg *koko *
I thi k it's possible for there to be 2 town protectives


----------



## Negrek

Yyyeah, two docs wouldn't make me blink in a setup of this size.


----------



## Mawile

vote count i think (may be inaccurate, i did it very fast)
Zero Moment (4) - Mawile (1416), rari_teh (1428), Negrek (1438), kokorico (1442)
Mr. Ultracool (3) - JackPK (1397), Myuma (1412), Zero Moment (1420)
kokorico (1) -  Bluwiikoon (1411), Ysabel (1443),


----------



## Ys_

Bc of zori's possible role but uh


----------



## qenya

_please_ stop reacting to game-relevant posts, hydreigon


----------



## Ys_

*Unvote*


----------



## Bluwiikoon

Oh god where is M&F this is so stressful


----------



## qenya

*bomb Mr. Ul-*

nah not really


----------



## Bluwiikoon

Are we on until 4am because the day started late or something?


----------



## Ys_

lmao sorry I'm torn


----------



## Negrek

o shit MF's not even online

Should I continue to make game-relevant posts, or would that be poor form?


----------



## qenya

Bluwiikoon said:


> Are we on until 4am because the day started late or something?


i feel like mampers would have said something. she explicitly said "eod at the usual time, just 24 hours later", or words to that effect.


----------



## Bluwiikoon

Everyone gangsta until the GM don't show up


----------



## Mawile

should we just memepost until MF comes back


----------



## Stryke

Can I post another cool bug pic


----------



## Hydreigon25

kokorico said:


> _please_ stop reacting to game-relevant posts, hydreigon


I just had to pop it to apologize for reacting to the post you made, sorry @kokorico


----------



## qenya

Hydreigon25 said:


> kokorico said:
> 
> 
> 
> _please_ stop reacting to game-relevant posts, hydreigon
> 
> 
> 
> I just had to pop it to apologize for reacting to the post you made, sorry @kokorico
Click to expand...

no worries, i totally understand how it can happen by accident! hard to resist clicking the button by reflex. just try your best!

yes please stryke, post cool bugs


----------



## Stryke




----------



## Bluwiikoon

Shiny bug!!! A friend!!


----------



## Zero Moment

kokorico said:


> I think I'm going to go for *Zero Moment* too. It took a full half-hour to state his previous targets, neither of which required much explanation, and during the interim period he was clearly reading the thread and even responded to later posts.
> 
> If this is _wrong_, and he is town, I think this should implicate ysabel - both for having a pretty similar role, and for starting the wagon on him.


smh I knew that someone was gonna get on my case for continuing my conversation with maw first


----------



## Bluwiikoon

Tfw you're in the store past closing time but no staff members show up to switch off the lights and lock up


----------



## Mawile

(source)


----------



## qenya

Zero Moment said:


> kokorico said:
> 
> 
> 
> I think I'm going to go for *Zero Moment* too. It took a full half-hour to state his previous targets, neither of which required much explanation, and during the interim period he was clearly reading the thread and even responded to later posts.
> 
> If this is _wrong_, and he is town, I think this should implicate ysabel - both for having a pretty similar role, and for starting the wagon on him.
> 
> 
> 
> smh I knew that someone was gonna get on my case for continuing my conversation with maw first
Click to expand...

if incorrect, sorry. we were pressed for time and it was the only test i could think of. i do realise it wasn't a very good one.


----------



## qenya

anywho- it's already, like, early morning and i definitely need to sleep, however attractive memeposting sounds, so i'mma check out for now. good luck y'all!


----------



## Bluwiikoon




----------



## Bluwiikoon

Me @ y'all 







Gotta put source in next post because my phone deletes my post if I alt tab AAAA


----------



## Bluwiikoon

Source of meme!


----------



## M&F

*The day is over. Stop posting, and hold for results.*

jesus I'm 40min late, sorry guys, was doing some smash-


----------



## rari_teh

my sylveon’s on their way to hunt toNight… lock your doors.


Spoiler: tw: a bit of blood


----------



## M&F

Night Three of Tournament Coverage

My... what an eventful day we've had today. I'm certain we have been all thinking so -- which is perhaps the reason why the usual wrathful mobs from the Pokémon World Tournament are feeling tamer.

More accusations of wrongdoing have been flying every which direction still, but this time, everyone has managed to hold off from doing something reckless. Instead, people have been remarkably careful about all of the preparations necessary to make such hefty decisions about who to hold guilty of wrongdoing and what to do about it. They have even spent a significant amount of time posting "memes" instead of rushing things along!

Now, we do have a prime suspect of wrongdoing that has emerged out of this process. I would have liked to partake in properly investigating that individual, myself... but truth be told, I happen to be confined to bed rest at the moment. That Ampharos from earlier is... most intriguing. Full of surprises, I'd say! Sometimes, these surprises may cost me some expensive equiment or muscular health, but nonetheless, I will continue fighting to earn his trust.
-Colress, Researcher, Engineer, and Pokémon Trainer

*Zero Moment survived the lynching!

48 hours for night actions.*



Spoiler: final vote count and history



Zero Moment(4): Mawile, rari_teh, Negrek, kokorico
Mr. Ultracool(3): JackPK, Myuma, Zero Moment
kokorico(1):Bluwiikoon






Spoiler: very slow ping



@Mawile
RedneckPhoenix
@Bluwiikoon
Herbe
@rari_teh
@Zero Moment
@Mr. Ultracool
@ミ☆ ᴍyᴜᴍᴀ
Vipera Magnifica
@Stryke
Tofu
@Negrek
@kokorico
Zori
bruh moment
Hydreigon25
@JackPK
@Ysabel


----------



## Bluwiikoon

M&F when they look at the clock and more hours have passed than expected:


----------



## M&F

Day Four Pregame Column

Lately, it's almost like, just because I'm a heartbreaker... they have me delivering all of the heartbreaking news. It's nothing on the scale of that disaster from yesterday... that one's gonna take time to heal... but some of the more cold-hearted people might find this next turn of events sadder, anyway. Some folks do care more about celebrities than about their hometowns...

And I'm not just talking about "celebrities" in the sense of superstar Pokémon trainers, either. Even people who have nothing to do with the battling scene... have probably seen *Sabrina* or *Brycen* up on the silver screen at some point in their lives. Everyone watches the movies... that's why they're such a good source of pick-up lines. Me, I still don't get any too fussed about what famous people are up to, but if there's a sweet lady out there who's sad she'll never get to watch a new Brycen-Man or Mystery Doors of the Magical Land... I know all the right things to say, and not to say, to bring her spirits back up.

And hell, if she also happens to know who *Valerie* is, I could offer her my lean, supple shoulder to cry on about it, too.

Now, I think I've said more than enough -- after all, you don't get dating tips from Charles himself any ol' day -- but the editor won't stop crying to me about "flippant tone" this and "shallow information" that, so, I might as well put at least one thing fresh off the investigations on the page. When they found Sabrina slumped over in the corridor, she had some kind of note or another on her... I would tell you what was written on it, but the truth is... I already forgot how it goes. Have a good day, Pokémon fans all over the world.

(Editor's note: you've got to be kidding me, Charles! here, I'll just print the contents of the note directly.)


> Hello from Day 2! I inspected Mawile N0 and got a Town result. I am going to attempt to heal VM or Ultracool N2. MF will not tell me if this will cause a healer clash, so if one of them died under suspicious circumstances, that could be why. I am going to attempt to roleblock someone N3, but no idea who yet.


*rari_teh, the Valerie, has died. They were Town.
Negrek, the Sabrina, has died. She was town.
JackPK, the Brycen, has died. He was Town.

48 hours for discussion.*



Spoiler: pingusting



@Mawile
RedneckPhoenix
@Bluwiikoon
Herbe
rari_teh
@Zero Moment
@Mr. Ultracool
@ミ☆ ᴍyᴜᴍᴀ
Vipera Magnifica
@Stryke
Tofu
Negrek
@kokorico
Zori
bruh moment
Hydreigon25
JackPK
@Ysabel


----------



## Mawile

i Extremely Dislike this


----------



## M&F

I know, right? where's charles' sense of professionalism, smh


----------



## Mawile

so with 8 people currently alive and 1 mafia dead, then there can't have been 5 mafia, based on previous MFia games (in which mafia wins at 50% of living players). since 5 mafia would mean that there's 4 alive, and they would have won just now

so that means the max amount of mafia to start would have been 4, meaning at most 3 mafias are alive

i don't know where this post was going


----------



## Mawile

also fun fact: i still have no badges lmao


----------



## Mawile

also @ ultracool PLEASE tell me you watched somebody last Night besides yourself


----------



## Mawile

Mawile said:


> also fun fact: i still have no badges lmao


status update: badge(s) obtained. how many & from who? not gonna tell tbh
either way, badge power is now Usable. ty generous donor


----------



## Zero Moment

ok so can anyone explain to me how I survived that lynching


----------



## Mawile

no


----------



## Mawile

i'm still suspicious of you tbh

it's a shame that all the people i had townleans for have all died over the course of the game so far, leaving me with all the people i am suspicious of


----------



## qenya

Mawile said:


> i'm still suspicious of you tbh
> 
> it's a shame that all the people i had townleans for have all died over the course of the game so far, leaving me with all the people i am suspicious of


big mood. at least i know i was _correct_ to townlean them, which is something

unlike rari, who's now vigged two townies, and presumably sent off her action tonight so a third will die n4. fs in the chat.


----------



## qenya

kokorico said:


> unlike rari, who's now vigged two townies, and presumably sent off her action tonight so a third will die n4. fs in the chat.


(no offence intended rari, ily really. we all have loltown moments.)


----------



## qenya

regarding yesterday's "whoops all doctors" moment, i agree two healers in a game this size isn't a lot, but we're not talking about two: we're talking about three, since vm's role was effectively protective as well. so i'm not sure i have it in me to be credible of both ysabel's and zm's claims.


----------



## qenya

kokorico said:


> credible


uh, *credulous.


----------



## Ys_

Oh my gosh. :( maybe there is healers clash after all? Also the reason why I thought there may as well be two doctors is because my power is relatively weak. I can heal people but only on alternating nights. So if I healed someone tonight I can't do it the next night.

N1 I healed rari because I thought she's a strong player and may be killed on N0. Which is why I was more trusting on her with the zori lynch.

N3 I tried giving a bulletproof vest to bm since I thought mafia wouldn't kill them if they thought that Mr UC and the doctor would be on them. The problem is that it takes a whole phase to charge. That's why I was feeling useless. Because my action completely failed. And tonight I tried to heal rari since I thought she'd be a target. But...? Something weird is definitely going on. And if a redirector does exist it's probably Mr UC.


----------



## Mr. Ultracool

Mawile said:


> also @ ultracool PLEASE tell me you watched somebody last Night besides yourself


Meowf course, I didn't make that stupid meowstake again 
Myuma, why did you visit Bluwiikoon?


----------



## Ys_

ok, maybe not.
ZM who did you protect last night?
Did someone's action not go through?
I'm wondering who Negrek roleblocked, if anyone.


----------



## Mawile

Mr. Ultracool said:


> Myuma, why did you visit Bluwiikoon?


why would you not watch the vig or either of the 2 protective roles


----------



## Mr. Ultracool

Mawile said:


> Mr. Ultracool said:
> 
> 
> 
> Myuma, why did you visit Bluwiikoon?
> 
> 
> 
> why would you not watch the vig or either of the 2 protective roles
Click to expand...

In hindsight, I meowght have made yet another error, but if I remeowmber correctly, Bluwiikoon and Zori were accused of teaming with each other, so that seemeowed suspicious in my eyes.


----------



## Mawile

Mr. Ultracool said:


> Mawile said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mr. Ultracool said:
> 
> 
> 
> Myuma, why did you visit Bluwiikoon?
> 
> 
> 
> why would you not watch the vig or either of the 2 protective roles
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> In hindsight, I meowght have made yet another error, but if I remeowmber correctly, Bluwiikoon and Zori were accused of teaming with each other, so that seemeowed suspicious in my eyes.
Click to expand...

but like. you're watching somebody, so you're seeing who targeted them, correct?
so why watch someone who you're suspicious of rather than someone who's likely to be nightkilled by the mafia. at best you would have seen a vig kill

seems inconsistent with your original Grand Plan of "i will watch myself to see who kills me" tbhtbh to now go "i will watch someone i am suspicious of"


----------



## Mr. Ultracool

Mawile said:


> Mr. Ultracool said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mawile said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mr. Ultracool said:
> 
> 
> 
> Myuma, why did you visit Bluwiikoon?
> 
> 
> 
> why would you not watch the vig or either of the 2 protective roles
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> In hindsight, I meowght have made yet another error, but if I remeowmber correctly, Bluwiikoon and Zori were accused of teaming with each other, so that seemeowed suspicious in my eyes.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> but like. you're watching somebody, so you're seeing who targeted them, correct?
> so why watch someone who you're suspicious of rather than someone who's likely to be nightkilled by the mafia. at best you would have seen a vig kill
> 
> seems inconsistent with your original Grand Plan of "i will watch myself to see who kills me" tbhtbh to now go "i will watch someone i am suspicious of"
Click to expand...

In meow opinion, the past MFia that was linked here seemeowngly indicated that the Maf could possibly have roles that targeted themeowselves, like a Maf Doctor. Also, I was repeatedly told that that plan of meowne was absolutely stupid due to bringing no new results, causing meow to abandon it


----------



## Mawile

Mr. Ultracool said:


> Also, I was repeatedly told that that plan of meowne was absolutely stupid due to bringing no new results, causing meow to abandon it


yes but the point is that you were previously willing to use your ability in order to see who kills someone


----------



## Mr. Ultracool

Mawile said:


> Mr. Ultracool said:
> 
> 
> 
> Also, I was repeatedly told that that plan of meowne was absolutely stupid due to bringing no new results, causing meow to abandon it
> 
> 
> 
> yes but the point is that you were previously willing to use your ability in order to see who kills someone
Click to expand...

Meowth, that's right!
Meowever, I really, really didn't meownage to discern who the meowfia might possibly kill...


----------



## Mawile

so, on a different note



Ysabel said:


> N1 I healed rari because I thought she's a strong player and may be killed on N0. Which is why I was more trusting on her with the zori lynch.
> 
> N3 I tried giving a bulletproof vest to bm since I thought mafia wouldn't kill them if they thought that Mr UC and the doctor would be on them. The problem is that it takes a whole phase to charge. That's why I was feeling useless. Because my action completely failed. And tonight I tried to heal rari since I thought she'd be a target. But...? Something weird is definitely going on. And if a redirector does exist it's probably Mr UC.


do you want to double check your night numbers before i scrutinize this


----------



## Mr. Ultracool

Mawile said:


> so, on a different note
> 
> 
> 
> Ysabel said:
> 
> 
> 
> N1 I healed rari because I thought she's a strong player and may be killed on N0. Which is why I was more trusting on her with the zori lynch.
> 
> N3 I tried giving a bulletproof vest to bm since I thought mafia wouldn't kill them if they thought that Mr UC and the doctor would be on them. The problem is that it takes a whole phase to charge. That's why I was feeling useless. Because my action completely failed. And tonight I tried to heal rari since I thought she'd be a target. But...? Something weird is definitely going on. And if a redirector does exist it's probably Mr UC.
> 
> 
> 
> do you want to double check your night numbers before i scrutinize this
Click to expand...

N1: I meowatched VM and saw Bluwiikoon
N2: I squandered meow action on meowself
N3: The less said, the better - although I did get to write meow final will
N4: Meow choice as to whom to watch fell on Bluwiikoon, who received a visit from Myuma


----------



## Mawile

was talking to ysa lmao


----------



## Hydreigon25

i honestly don't know how to react to Ultracools last 2 posts


----------



## Stryke

Hydreigon25 said:


> i honestly don't know how to react to Ultracools last 2 posts


How about: don't react at all


----------



## Mawile

if you are dead, simply do not react to game-relevant posts


----------



## Mr. Ultracool

Ignoring that for a meowment - if I should clarify anything, I glady would


----------



## Ys_

If you mean why I started with N1 that's because I'm used to calling the first night N1 regardless of if there was a day prior or not.
Anyway, I kind of lied anyway. Was fishing for reactions but everyone else seems to be afk and I didn't really get what I wanted from Mr UC.

N0 - heal rari
N1 - recharge
N2 - give [REDACTED] a bulletproof vest (the person is still alive but not going to say who it is in case of mafia)
N3 - heal rari (???)


----------



## Mawile

Ysabel said:


> why I started with N1 that's because I'm used to calling the first night N1 regardless of if there was a day prior or not


yeah my question was mostly about giving BM a bulletproof vest after they died lmao


----------



## Mawile

Ysabel said:


> N3 - heal rari (???)


i mean. maybe negrek roleblocked you or mafia has a roleblocker


----------



## Zero Moment

Ysabel said:


> ok, maybe not.
> ZM who did you protect last night?
> Did someone's action not go through?
> I'm wondering who Negrek roleblocked, if anyone.


I protected Mawile last night. I also received warning that my Iron Defense wore off this morning (read: I took the hit), so there were up to 4(?) attempted kills last night, which is. A crazy amount?


----------



## Mawile

Zero Moment said:


> I also received warning that my Iron Defense wore off this morning (read: I took the hit)


are you sure this isn't because we tried to yeet you yesterday, or are you just yeetproof


----------



## Zero Moment

No, my Iron Defense has a stipulation that I can share now that I don't have that protection anymore: I was only protected specifically in the case when I absorbed an attack for my target. i.e. were I to be targeted directly by a kill (or on a night I used my badge move) I wouldn't have any protection.


----------



## Mawile

so like. why did you not die when we yeeted you


----------



## Zero Moment

I literally had no clue I wasn't dying yesterDay. I was planning to reee in the deadchat afterwards tbh


----------



## Mawile

i wonder if deadchat is screaming about something super obvious that i'm missing
seems likely tbh


----------



## Mr. Ultracool

Mawile said:


> i wonder if deadchat is screaming about something super obvious that i'm missing
> seems likely tbh


Meowbe there _were_ five Meowfia Meowmbers after all and there's meowrely a tailor/janitor going ameownd? That would explain the lack of Lylo


----------



## M&F

Mr. Ultracool said:


> That would explain the lack of Lylo


for the record, I don't notify lylo/mylo; good luck figuring out if y'all are in it-


----------



## Ys_

Mr. Ultracool said:


> That would explain the lack of Lylo


I thi k you mean lynch.

Also, I was thinking. Tofu said she had a power that was activated when she died. Could it have been an extra kill?


----------



## Ys_

Mawile said:


> Ysabel said:
> 
> 
> 
> why I started with N1 that's because I'm used to calling the first night N1 regardless of if there was a day prior or not
> 
> 
> 
> yeah my question was mostly about giving BM a bulletproof vest after they died lmao
Click to expand...

Oh. Yeah, that wouldn't have made sense at all lmao rip


Mawile said:


> Ysabel said:
> 
> 
> 
> N3 - heal rari (???)
> 
> 
> 
> i mean. maybe negrek roleblocked you or mafia has a roleblocker
Click to expand...

Yeah, makes sense tbh


----------



## Mr. Ultracool

Ysabel said:


> Mr. Ultracool said:
> 
> 
> 
> That would explain the lack of Lylo
> 
> 
> 
> I thi k you mean lynch.
> 
> Also, I was thinking. Tofu said she had a power that was activated when she died. Could it have been an extra kill?
Click to expand...

I actually meownt us loosing due to the distribution of 5 Meowfia to 3 Town. Anyways, the Meowfia having an extra kill is seemeowngly a possibility - otherwise, there'd have to be two Vigs? Meowbe there's a Grandfather- type role, though


----------



## Ys_

Mr. Ultracool said:


> I actually meownt us loosing due to the distribution of 5 Meowfia to 3 Town. Anyways, the Meowfia having an extra kill is seemeowngly a possibility - otherwise, there'd have to be two Vigs? Meowbe there's a Grandfather- type role, though


Oh! All right, I get you! Probably there's only 3 mafia left. Unless mafia's wincon is to be the majority so we may be in mylo today..? But hope not. What's a Grandfather?


----------



## Mawile

Ysabel said:


> Unless mafia's wincon is to be the majority


mafia wincon in MFia is traditionally 50% of living players being mafia


----------



## Mawile

ok so since nobody is talking, how about we go for a Question Or Two to hopefully start something up

1. what happened last night to result in 3 deaths and a supposed 4th target on me
2. if you are interested in trying to get me to read you as town, you should probably start soon. all my townreads are dead which means i am suspicious of all of you :)

i would pressure vote but it is hard to do so when you are Varying Levels of Suspicious of Everybody tbhtbh


----------



## Mawile

imagine having a hard time reading Tone in people's posts and being forced to go off of mechanical stuff. couldnt be me
btw @ mafia thx for killing off most of the most talky people so now i have to actually help to carry the conversation >:(


----------



## Mr. Ultracool

Mawile said:


> imagine having a hard time reading Tone in people's posts and


In that vein, I'd love to meow what action @ミ☆ ᴍyᴜᴍᴀ performed on Bluwiikoon. Sure, that meowght come across as a bit rolefishy, but in my opinion, we need informeowtion like that to meowperate with.


----------



## Ys_

I have no idea what caused 4 kill attempts. Maybe someone's badge power caused it? We don't know what Stryke's role actually is. He may be a serial killer or something. Remember he got the badges from RNP. 

Anyway. by now it's probably 3 mafias maybe 4 townies and one other 3p. And I hope rari shot Stryke. I really don't feel good about whatever his role is. And I think with so many killings going on I def trust ZM's claim. So imo maybe the last mafia's are a combination of Koko/Stryke/MrUC /Blu. And Koko has definitely not been in eir town game. As I see it, if e were town, e would engage more. We have no clue of what Stryke's role actually is, and if he's mafia or a killer 3p I'm afraid town is in a bad position. Mr UC hasn't been helping much at all and has holes in his reasoning. And Blu seems to have disappeared. Of those four, I feel more confident about Koko being mafia. So let's start the ball rolling. 

*Koko*


----------



## Stryke

They took my fucking badges


----------



## Stryke

slight_frown


----------



## Mawile

inb4 stryke died n0 and has his powers unlocked ever since


----------



## Bluwiikoon

Sorry for being so quiet, I've been dealing with some brain stuff and I've taken a step back from a lot of things ^^; I promise I'm trying my best, though!

I can confirm that Myuma gave me the ability to write a will, so that's pretty neat!  And... it looks like mafia didn't take my bait with my badge power just yet. :( Hmmm

Jesus christ the number of kills though


----------



## Bluwiikoon

I'm still hesitant about ever considering Stryke for a yeet due to his mystery powers tbh, it's all a bit too spooky for me.


----------



## Mr. Ultracool

Bluwiikoon said:


> I'm still hesitant about ever considering Stryke for a yeet due to his mystery powers tbh, it's all a bit too spooky for me.


Meowbe that's his plan, though? Meowking up a role Town wouldn't possibly want to termeownate sounds like a good one to fakeclaim, tbh


----------



## qenya

right, right, there's mafia happening. i'm here i swear. time for some speed logic.

first off: if, as we suspect, there are 3 living mafia and they win at parity, then today is MyLo (with some variability depending on whether rari got to send off another vigkill and if so who she targeted; whether or not ysabel's bulletproof vest is on the right person; etc). so let's keep calm and be absolutely sure we've got this right.

---

regarding the nightkills, this is how I'm thinking: rari said her delayed vig from N2 was on someone she thought was my scumbuddy, which realistically probably means she offed Jack. she herself, as the vig, was the obvious target for the mafia. so really all that needs explaining is Negrek's death; Ysabel's supposed vanishing heal; and the mystery expenditure of ZM's supposed protection on mawile.

the N2 kills also still aren't fully explained. either VM or skytini were plausible mafia kills (VM possibly via his pseudo-bodyguard ability), but Negrek had already used her shot and rari had been roleblocked on N1, so we don't have any other indication of where the other kill came from, or how RNP died. that makes a total of 3-4 unexplained kills (depending on whether or not ZM is lying) over the course of the game, which is an insane number.

nobody so far has claimed any role that would cause anything like that, which says to me that the person(s) responsible is/are mafia-aligned, or conceivably 3p. just straight up giving the mafia a second nightkill seems absurd given the apparent lack of town power (more on that in a sec), so if it's the mafia then it would make sense for the extra kill to be a badge power - certainly plausible, given how many dead people's badges have _failed_ to show up in the hands of town.

so here is my spicy take, as requested: rari's badge action reportedly allowed her to allow any delayed-effect action, not just her own, which implies the existence of other delayed-effect actions. what if one of the mafia had a delayed-effect kill as their badge power? they could have shot one of the N2 deaths on N1 (probably VM, as he had already claimed at that point) and either Jack or Negrek on N2 (probably Negrek, for the same reason).

that would explain everything but the third N2 death and ZM's shell getting broken.

---

regarding Ysabel & ZM: right now, neither one of their claims seems cast-iron. Ysabel's relies on her having been blocked last night, when there would be no good reason for Negrek to block her and we have no other evidence that a mafia roleblocker exists. meanwhile, ZM's claim of 1-shot bulletproof + bodyguard + redirect-proof badge-powered vig fails to match the pattern we've been seeing of one free action and one badge action, and i don't see (and nobody else has advanced) any explanation for what he claims happened to him last Night. so my vote is going to *Zero Moment*, unless someone else advances an alternative preference.

---

another bit of speculation: i'm quite surprised at the lack of town inforoles - literally all that's been claimed is Mr Ultracool; Negrek's one-shot inspection; and myuma's 3-badge necro-rolecop. the only dead townie whose role we don't know is skytini, and I just read through her ISO without spotting anything that looked remotely like a result or soft. so i'm wondering if we might still have a living inforole with some results, and considering that it's probably MyLo, now would be an awfully good time for them to claim if they exist. would y'all agree?


----------



## Bluwiikoon

Koko have you ever mentioned what your powers are?  We're on, what is it, day 4? So I agree that any detectives we have should definitely share any results they have by now, if their targets are still living.

Should we all roleclaim in general? My cantrip is protective as I've mentioned before, but just going by how many folks are getting killed, maybe we need all this protection?  It could be a way of balancing the game against some really strong wolf powers


----------



## Mawile

my role can be described as Definitely Not An Inforole lmao


----------



## qenya

Mawile said:


> my role can be described as Definitely Not An Inforole lmao


Hum. Mine isn't an inforole either, fwiw. Which leaves exactly nobody. :/

Maybe skytini _was_ a cop or similar to a cop? Much sadness if so.

I'm quite surprised, actually, Blu; I thought you were softing cop pretty hard for the first few Days (and disbelieved it, but that's beside the point). Lemme see if I can dig up some quotes.



Bluwiikoon said:


> Koko have you ever mentioned what your powers are?


I believe I've mentioned that my free action is totally 100% useless, which remains the case. Not sure what, if anything, I should claim about my badge action... lemme think about it for a bit and get back to you.


----------



## Ys_

Yeah, I thought Blu was cop, too. Blu, at this point it won't do us any good to hide info. This day is crucial since if we don't lynch correctly we may lose.

Koko, the only thing I've seen you hint at is terrorist and alien, but alien doesn't make sense at all. If you'd been activated, you would have been happy at being lynched, and if you hadn't been activated then mafia would have been happy to mislynch you. Which hasn't happened. And I think it's weird that you're trying to lynch a potential protective role. Especially over someone you've been suspicious of for a couple of days now if I'm correct?

Also, if rari's power was delaying actions, maybe my heal on her was delayed as well, or she died from killing two townies. Isn't that a usual drawback for vigs?

Town: don't listen to em. Jack may have given em Stryke's badges if Stryke is telling the truth which means e potentially can activate eir badgepower tomorrow which e can use if e is a terrorist or whatever e truly is....



kokorico said:


> I believe I've mentioned that my free action is totally 100% useless, which remains the case. Not sure what, if anything, I should claim about my badge action... lemme think about it for a bit and get back to you.


lmao. "Give me time to come up with a plausible fakeclaim" much? After you were willing to mislynch ZM only based on the time it took for him to claim? Nope. Clearly if you were town you would just be straightforward with us. My vote on you stays where it is.


----------



## Mawile

kokorico said:


> I believe I've mentioned that my free action is totally 100% useless, which remains the case.


if it's useless, you should be able to claim it, right? because if it's useless, then presumably you haven't used it, so it shouldn't matter if you claim it?


----------



## Bluwiikoon

Hmmm *kokorico* isn't looking so good here :(

I'm very sorry for the confusion! ^^; My free action is Heal Pulse, but I'm unable to use that and my badge action at the same time.

When I softed on D2, I though what could have happened on N0 is that VM absorbed my heal and so a mafia kill didn't happen. But, what I overlooked is that if VM was also targeted by a kill, surely Mr UC would have Saw it? So, I'm thinking that maybe all kills are delayed (like rari's vigs), or Mr UC maybe wasn't honest.


----------



## qenya

Mawile said:


> if it's useless, you should be able to claim it, right? because if it's useless, then presumably you haven't used it, so it shouldn't matter if you claim it?


i mean, i _can_, but it's not going to help much. when i say "useless", i literally mean "no-op". it's Roost, i literally spend the night ~chillaxing~ and doing nothing at all. i haven't bothered using it. i assume it's there to make the format the same for everyone, since my badge action is (I realised yesterDay) considerably more powerful than most of the other things people have claimed.


----------



## qenya

Bluwiikoon said:


> My free action is Heal Pulse, but I'm unable to use that and my badge action at the same time.


okay, look, i was dubious about _three_ protective roles, but with _four_, someone is 100% either lying or trolling


----------



## qenya

kokorico said:


> either lying or trolling


possibly both


----------



## Mawile

kokorico said:


> my badge action is (I realised yesterDay) considerably more powerful than most of the other things people have claimed


how many badges does it need


----------



## qenya

Mawile said:


> kokorico said:
> 
> 
> 
> my badge action is (I realised yesterDay) considerably more powerful than most of the other things people have claimed
> 
> 
> 
> how many badges does it need
Click to expand...

one, which i possess. (thanks jack.)


----------



## qenya

Bluwiikoon said:


> When I softed on D2, I though what could have happened on N0 is that VM absorbed my heal and so a mafia kill didn't happen. But, what I overlooked is that if VM was also targeted by a kill, surely Mr UC would have Saw it? So, I'm thinking that maybe all kills are delayed (like rari's vigs), or Mr UC maybe wasn't honest.


I... don't quite understand this. D2 was just after Herbe and Hydreigon died, right? It's true we know _now_ that there was no mafia kill that night (Negrek killed Herbe and rari killed Hydreigon), but why would you have thought that at the time?


----------



## Mawile

ooh!


kokorico said:


> Mawile said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> kokorico said:
> 
> 
> 
> my badge action is (I realised yesterDay) considerably more powerful than most of the other things people have claimed
> 
> 
> 
> how many badges does it need
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> one, which i possess. (thanks jack.)
Click to expand...

i have a question!
did you get the badge from Jack when he died or did you get it through his badge-swappery power


----------



## qenya

kokorico said:


> I... don't quite understand this. D2 was just after Herbe and Hydreigon died, right? It's true we know _now_ that there was no mafia kill that night (Negrek killed Herbe and rari killed Hydreigon), but why would you have thought that at the time?


Oh, right, you mean no kill on _N0_, sorry.


----------



## qenya

Mawile said:


> i have a question!
> did you get the badge from Jack when he died or did you get it through his badge-swappery power


I received exactly one Freeze Badge shortly after the beginning of toDay. That's Brycen's badge, so I've been assuming it was the badge / one of the badges Jack distributed on death.


----------



## qenya

Hydreigon, I'm trying my absolute best not to read anything into your reactions to my speculation, but it's pretty difficult. _Please_ can you try to restrain yourself.


----------



## qenya

Okay, let's try looking at this from a different perspective. Blu, who do you claim to have healed on each Night so far?


----------



## Mawile

kokorico said:


> Mawile said:
> 
> 
> 
> i have a question!
> did you get the badge from Jack when he died or did you get it through his badge-swappery power
> 
> 
> 
> I received exactly one Freeze Badge shortly after the beginning of toDay. That's Brycen's badge, so I've been assuming it was the badge / one of the badges Jack distributed on death.
Click to expand...

what i'm kind of wondering is why distribute a badge to you instead of someone in his strong townleaning tier, or to our doctor


----------



## Mawile

i mean, the fact of the matter is that we don't know how many badges Jack had to distribute, so maybe he evenly distributed them among the people who were alive and near the top of his tier list


----------



## Mawile

i can't help but get the feeling that we're missing something and deadchat is screaming at us about it


----------



## qenya

Mawile said:


> i can't help but get the feeling that we're missing something and deadchat is screaming at us about it


Big mood tbh.


----------



## qenya

Oh, it's just occurred to me that I can easily disprove Ysabel's terrorist theory: *Bomb Ysabel*

la la la, witness me (and her) continue to post and show up in the votecount, etc etc.


----------



## M&F

speaking of the votecount, apologies for being out of action all day-

we're almost in the last hour, tho; you guys gonna need an extension?


----------



## Mawile

extension would be appreciated


----------



## qenya

Mawile said:


> extension would be appreciated


oh i assumed this was not an option since the rush for time was very much our fault for not, like, posting

very much in favour of an extension if available


----------



## Ys_

How does that prove or disprove anything lmao you could still have any other role
If I do die though, well, I tried my best :c

Also I think it may be fair to extend it to two more hours since that's when the day started?


----------



## Ys_

Ysabel said:


> Also I think it may be fair to extend it to two more hours since that's when the day started?


If that's possible with your schedule MF


----------



## qenya

Ysabel said:


> Also I think it may be fair to extend it to two more hours since that's when the day started?


A 2am EoD is already stretching it - I'm definitely not going to be around at 4am. So if this is the only option then I'd almost rather not have an extension at all; at least then I'll get to find out what happens.

I haven't forgotten about your spec re: Jack's badge distribution, Mawile, will get back to that in a moment.


----------



## M&F

well, in any case, *24-hour time extension*. EoD will be at the usual time, tomorrow


----------



## Ys_

Ok. That takes some pressure off. Gonna take a break. See y'all tomorrow. Don't let the bed bugs bite. :3


----------



## Bluwiikoon

You ever just watching a movie and then you look at the clock like OH SHIT OH FUCK and then you come in and there's an extension oh lort my heart



kokorico said:


> Okay, let's try looking at this from a different perspective. Blu, who do you claim to have healed on each Night so far?


Hi hi!  N0 I healed you but got redirected to VM, N1 I healed rari, N2 I healed VM but got blocked I think, and N3 I activated my wolf bait ability (where if they killed me on that night, the thread would be notified of their wolfyness)


----------



## M&F

current votes:
kokorico (2) - Ysabel (#i forget), Bluwiikoon (#1536)
Zero Moment (1) - kokorico (#1530)


----------



## Zero Moment

kokorico said:


> ZM's claim of 1-shot bulletproof + bodyguard + redirect-proof badge-powered vig fails to match the pattern we've been seeing of one free action and one badge action,


You know it's just two moves, right? Iron Defense is my free and Magnet Bomb is my badge.

Anyway, while I think we do have way more protective claims than usual, there's no way that we're all fakeclaiming. So I'm thinking that maybe it's because we straight up have a high number of killing roles, either through main or badge abilities. Cause looking at it so far, there's been the mafia, the 3p vig, the town poisoner, the JOAT, and myself. I wouldn't be surprised if there was one or two more badge kills scattered about the role list.


----------



## Zero Moment

kokorico said:


> Mawile said:
> 
> 
> 
> if it's useless, you should be able to claim it, right? because if it's useless, then presumably you haven't used it, so it shouldn't matter if you claim it?
> 
> 
> 
> i mean, i _can_, but it's not going to help much. when i say "useless", i literally mean "no-op". it's Roost, i literally spend the night ~chillaxing~ and doing nothing at all. i haven't bothered using it. i assume it's there to make the format the same for everyone, since my badge action is (I realised yesterDay) considerably more powerful than most of the other things people have claimed.
Click to expand...

tbh this is like
_suspiciously_ useless? like, not only is the action itself really useless on a surface level, but you also haven't bothered to use your only action for the past, what, 5 nights to see if maybe it actually does something?


----------



## qenya

Zero Moment said:


> You know it's just two moves, right? Iron Defense is my free and Magnet Bomb is my badge.


Yeah, you said, but it seems odd to me - not impossible, but odd - that Iron Defense gives you two different unrelated things (or only tangentially related, at any rate). Though it's also occurred to me since last night that this would be a bizarre choice of moves for a fakeclaim - it makes sense if your Pokémon is Magnemite or something, but if you were inventing a fakeclaim completely from scratch I would have thought you would just pick a couple of Electric-type moves and be done with it. Coupled with the fact that Blu's claim overlaps a lot more with Ysabel's than yours does (what's the rationale behind a full doctor and a non-consecutive night doctor, neither with any other quirks, on the same team!?) you're certainly not as far down my list as you were yesterday. *Unvoting* for now.



Zero Moment said:


> Anyway, while I think we do have way more protective claims than usual, there's no way that we're all fakeclaiming. So I'm thinking that maybe it's because we straight up have a high number of killing roles, either through main or badge abilities. Cause looking at it so far, there's been the mafia, the 3p vig, the town poisoner, the JOAT, and myself. I wouldn't be surprised if there was one or two more badge kills scattered about the role list.


I don't believe _everyone_ claiming a protective role is faking it either, but the notion that _none_ of you are faking it seems even more ridiculous. I think it would be foolish not to try to pick apart the claims.

Would you mind recapping why you think a 3p vig/serial killer is responsible for some of the extra kills? I vaguely recall you mentioning the theory before but I can't find the post.


----------



## qenya

Chart of claimed night actions from our protective roles so far, since I was getting confused even with a spreadsheet and it's handier to have them all in one place.

Nothing's really jumping out at me, except that _if_ healer clash is a mechanic, I think the only way it could have taken effect is if either Ysabel or Blu is a mafia doctor who caused a clash on VM or rari respectively.


YsabelBluwiikoonZero MomentVipera MagnificaNegrekN0Heal rariHeal kokorico (redirected to VM)Bodyguard skytiniRedirect actions on kokoricoGreencheck on MawileN1must rechargeHeal rariBodyguard Herbe; Herbe died anyway[unsure - did he ever reveal this?]Shoot HerbeN2Bulletproofise someone; this person is still aliveHeal VM; VM died anywayBodyguard Stryke ("didn't want the mafia to activate him")Died; action unknownHealed somebody, but not VM or Mr UltracoolN3Heal rari; rari died anywayUsed his wolf-bait powerBodyguard Mawile; bulletproof popped(dead)Roleblocked someone and died


----------



## qenya

Hey, @ミ☆ ᴍyᴜᴍᴀ , @Mr. Ultracool , you've both been quiet - you got any thoughts about our surfeit of doctors?


----------



## Mr. Ultracool

Not really, sorry 
Many of the people who, in meow opinion, were likely to be maf just died, so I'm currently going meowver the ISOs again


----------



## Ys_

Can you imagine if the last mafia are like Myuma Mr UC and Stryke and they're just laughing at us making fools of ourselves (not really since Myuma is confirmed at this point, but it would be funny)

I agree it's weird that there seems to be three healy protective roles. But MF did say there would be elements of bastardry so who knows? Besides, like I said, you're the person I feel surest about not being town, so.


----------



## Zero Moment

kokorico said:


> Would you mind recapping why you think a 3p vig/serial killer is responsible for some of the extra kills? I vaguely recall you mentioning the theory before but I can't find the post.


I was talking about Zori, who was 3p vig, but the other speculation was from the d1 kills, which we know now were from Neg and rari


----------



## Stryke

none of you ever asked me what my powers were


----------



## Stryke

i mean, i established i dont know either. but i know their names at least


----------



## qenya

hey stryke, what are the names of your powers


----------



## Mawile

kokorico said:


> must recharge


it's weird to me that out of all the protective roles, ysa is the only one that has to recharge


----------



## Stryke

kokorico said:


> hey stryke, what are the names of your powers


Power 1 is called Team Plasma's Not Botherin' Me, and Power 2 is Not Goin Around Decidin' They're Bad


----------



## Mawile

Mawile said:


> kokorico said:
> 
> 
> 
> must recharge
> 
> 
> 
> it's weird to me that out of all the protective roles, ysa is the only one that has to recharge
Click to expand...

it is also weird to me that the second time that ysa and blu healed rari and VM respectively, their targets died


----------



## Ys_

Stryke said:


> Power 1 is called Team Plasma's Not Botherin' Me, and Power 2 is Not Goin Around Decidin' They're Bad


Lmao what?



Mawile said:


> it is also weird to me that the second time that ysa and blu healed rari and VM respectively, their targets died


Which proves that something shifty is going on... Look, if you want to vote for either of us go ahead. But I'm not letting Koko off the hook again. If I have to convince everyone of my towniness, then all I can say is that I wouldn't kill someone who was so sure of me, but I _would _kill someone who was making a case on me, or a confirmed towny.


----------



## Mawile

tinfoil hat theory: the only way the mafia can kill people is through healing the same person multiple times like on nights 2 and 3 with VM and rari respectively
would explain why we didn't get a kill n0 lmao


----------



## Mawile

i'm curious what koko's badge power must be to justify not having a free action at all tbh


----------



## Hydreigon25

Mawile said:


> would explain why we didn't get a kill n0 lmao


this ^ is what i was reacting to 

Btw Please don't angry react my post


----------



## Mawile

Hydreigon25 said:


> Mawile said:
> 
> 
> 
> would explain why we didn't get a kill n0 lmao
> 
> 
> 
> this ^ is what i was reacting to
> 
> Btw Please don't angry react my post
Click to expand...

have you considered simply not reacting to game-relevant posts


----------



## Mawile

but anyway. i am currently divided between koko, ysa, and blu to vote for, primarily because of koko's useless night action and the weird thing of ysa/blu healing someone for a second time on the night their targets died


----------



## qenya

Mawile said:


> but anyway. i am currently divided between koko, ysa, and blu to vote for, primarily because of koko's useless night action and the weird thing of ysa/blu healing someone for a second time on the night their targets died


This is pretty much where I'm at too, tbh (without me, obviously). If there's one or more liars in amongst the doctors then I can't see _both_ of them telling the truth, but which one it is I don't know (or is it both?). My heart wants to tunnel Ysabel because she's been focused on me whereas Blu's been more genial, but that is a Bad Instinct and I'm trying quite hard not to listen to it.

I've spent last couple of hours going back through D3 and D4 and mapping out who's been defending/tunnelling whom. The results may surprise you. Will post it as soon as I manage to take a legible photo of it.


----------



## M&F

three hours left, folks! sorry I missed the six hour bar-

current votes:
kokorico (2) - Ysabel (#1523), Bluwiikoon (#1536)


----------



## Mawile

i mean personally i might be a bit more inclined to vote Ysabel right now due to noticing that she seems to vote and then Blu follows her lead on who to vote for. like follow the leader, except with votes lol


----------



## Ys_

... *Unvote*
holy smokes it seems now i'm seen as sus over people trusting me O_O


----------



## Mawile

to be fair i am suspicious of everyone who is alive


----------



## Mawile

Mawile said:


> to be fair i am suspicious of everyone who is alive


----------



## Zero Moment

tbh I'm not buying what *kokorico* is selling. I'll try to be here by EoD to see if they've made a better case for themself.


----------



## Mawile

kokorico said:


> I've spent last couple of hours going back through D3 and D4 and mapping out who's been defending/tunnelling whom. The results may surprise you. Will post it as soon as I manage to take a legible photo of it.


also looking forward to this tbh


----------



## Ys_

Vipera Magnifica said:


> I was looking forward to powertowning this game but whatever. Oh also, my vote shouldn't be on Jack still; I voted for Hydreigon and figured it would clear that. I'm just gonna place a vote on *kokorico* if that's not good enough. I don't really feel like elaborating.


seems like VM may have had a reason to suspect Koko? Too bad he didn't elaborate.


rari_teh said:


> Vipera Magnifica said:
> 
> 
> 
> It looks like Tofu is getting yeeted today which is... frustrating, because I'm pretty sure she's actually just town. It seems my proposal wasn't really given the consideration it deserves, which is equally frustrating, but I _tried_. I suppose the cop could check me tonight if that's the assurance they're looking for but I just feel like this ends up with us wasting a night and potentially losing the cop to mafia NK.
> 
> 
> 
> tbh i don’t think that’s a waste. also don’t think that the cop is risking to get nightkilled unless a) i’m blind and didn’t notice a blatant soft or b) the mafia has a rolecop who correctly identified the cop N0 or N1
> 
> in fact, i think that the cop /should/ inspect vm because his alignment should be the one thing stopping us from putting his plan into action
> 
> i’m vibing here more than elsewhere. this will end nowhere but whatever. *kokorico*
Click to expand...

rari was also sus of Koko and she did elaborate on why later on.


rari_teh said:


> rari_teh said:
> 
> 
> 
> in fact, i think that the cop /should/ inspect vm because his alignment should be the one thing stopping us from putting his plan into action
> 
> 
> 
> in this case i also advise the doctor to heal vm toNight because, if he’s town, he’s most likely getting offed toNight
Click to expand...

idr but was this the day i had to recharge? so wish Mr UC had been on VM :/


Bluwiikoon said:


> Due to how N0 played out I'm inclined to believe VM is town   I can't really say much more, but if my theory about what happened is correct then pog


 


bruh moment said:


> Bluwiikoon said:
> 
> 
> 
> BM I'm interested to see if you have a reads list, if you haven't posted one recently already! ^^
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler: a brand mew tierlist. haha get it?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *negrek*
> ysabel
> *vm*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *rnp
> rari*
> blu
> uc
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> stryke (a bit above null)
> zm (null/??)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> myuma
> *jack*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *mawile*
> koko
> *tofu*
> 
> 
> probably clear from the list but we vibe with the onset of the koko counterwagon tbh tbh
> -m
Click to expand...

to summarize. I'm definitely not the first person who's been sus of Koko. I can dig up rari's post. But em saying e is sussing me for following dead town's lead... when we know rari and bm were strong town players and probably so was VM... I definitely don't like. But shrug. Shouldn't have suggested a third wagon yesterDay in the first place, so guess if town loses over that, then it's on me..


----------



## Ys_

Mawile said:


> to be fair i am suspicious of everyone who is alive


 yeah tbh. It's great that at least we have a greencheck


----------



## qenya

Ok here we go. Apologies for potato quality.

Quick explainer: The eight living players are marked round the edges. Any post someone made expressing an opinion on whether or not someone was mafia, or a yeet-worthy 3p, maps to an arrow: green for defence/"do not yeet", red for attack/"please yeet". If someone's opinion changed, or if they restated it, the most recent one is shown. This is correct up to the top of page 80, I believe. Each arrow is marked with the post number I derived it from, but it might be a bit difficult to pick them out - lmk if you want me to read something off for you.

I included Negrek's will for context (and also, for completeness, Hydreigon's outburst, but I can't see what we would read into that even if we were supposed to pay attention to it, so ).



So, probably the most obvious feature is that everyone is paranoidly doubting each other to the point of murder, but we knew that already. What I find most interesting is the interactions where people _defend_ each other. If we take the one mechconfirmed person (Mawile) out of this, the only people who have actively expressed a desire _not_ to yeet a specific person


----------



## qenya

Uh... somehow managed to send an earlier draft instead, sorry. Please continue from here after the photo.

---

So, probably the most obvious feature is that pretty much everyone is paranoidly doubting each other to the point of murder, but we knew that already. What I find most interesting is the pairs of people that have _not_ talked about each other. In particular, the healer claims all seem to have pointedly avoided giving opinions on each other, except for Blu expressing suspicion of ZM yesterDay (after ZM claimed but before Blu did). That's frankly pretty odd, considering the circumstances.

Less important but still noteworthy are the interactions where people _defend_ each other. If we take the one mechcleared person (Mawile) out of this, the only people who have actively expressed a desire _not_ to yeet a specific person are Ysabel, Blu and myuma, and all of them are either at each other or at people who would be self-evidently bad choices for a yeet and don't need any defending (Mawile and Stryke).

I'd also like to add that I already had a slight doubt about myuma, for a reason I oughtn't to disclose just yet. If I survive the Night I'll explain and seek opinions over whether it's sensible or just paranoia, and if I don't, well, at least you'll know from my flip that I was holding it honestly, I guess.

All things considered, if you put a gun to my head and told me I had to identify the scumteam _now_, I'd go for Ysabel/Blu/myuma. And I'm going to feel pretty silly if fewer than two of those turn out to be correct. *Hydreigon, please do not react to that.*

I'm going to put my vote on *Ysabel*, I think, but I'll switch to Blu if you request it, Mawile.


----------



## qenya

Ysabel said:


> But em saying e is sussing me for following dead town's lead... when we know rari and bm were strong town players and probably so was VM... I definitely don't like.


I.... I explicitly said I _wasn't_ treating that as a point against you, even though I reflexively wanted to. :/


----------



## Mawile

kokorico said:


> In particular, the healer claims all seem to have pointedly avoided giving opinions on each other, except for Blu expressing suspicion of ZM yesterDay (after ZM claimed but before Blu did). That's frankly pretty odd, considering the circumstances.


i personally think the combination of this + Blu constantly following Ysabel's lead on who to vote for could make Ysa/Blu either w/w or v/v, dunno where ZM fits into this yet. also i'm still suspicious of the weird coincidence of their targets dying the same night as the second heal, etcetc (i already mentioned that part earlier)



kokorico said:


> I'm going to put my vote on *Ysabel*, I think, but I'll switch to Blu if you request it, Mawile.


yeah i can vibe with a *Ysabel *vote. i'm assuming the badge Jack gave you (koko) might be indicative of something, but i'm not quite sure what tbh, so for the moment i will trust you


----------



## Mawile

kokorico said:


> In particular, the healer claims all seem to have pointedly avoided giving opinions on each other


personally if i was a healer and someone else claimed to be a healer i would be vocally suspicious of them


----------



## Ys_

I mean if you'd have played like this all the game you'd have convinced me too tbh :o
I'll be back later. for now i have to focus on rl stuff :)


----------



## qenya

Mawile said:


> i'm assuming the badge Jack gave you (koko) might be indicative of something, but i'm not quite sure what tbh


oh! yeah! i said last night i had something to say about that.

the way i see it, jack had a lot of badges to give out; he took RNP's from Stryke (presumably, unless Stryke is lying fsr), and I don't think it's credible to suggest that he had only one badge of his own and chose to give it to me instead of you. So that's an awful lot of badges that should be sloshing around in the system right now - so to speak - and the only one we know about is the one he gave me. That makes me pretty nervous.

if i'd said this earlier on then i'd have asked to see if anyone was willing to claim having received one of RNP's or Jack's badges last night, but (a) it's kinda too late now and (b) i haven't got around to figuring out what if anything it would mean for the claimers: is it town-indicative or not? would mafia try to lie or not, and does that depend on whether or not they actually received any? is it even safe for _town_ to claim them, or would it make them bigger mafia targets? etc. So, maybe a missed opportunity, but idrk what else can be done about it.

one thing i'd like to suggest, which in hindsight ought to have occurred to me at the very beginning, is that anyone who dies tonight should _wait_ at least 24 hours or so before selecting recipients for their badge(s) - assuming mampers will allow that, and i don't see why she wouldn't. that gives you more information from daytalk on which to base your decision, and doesn't cause any delays to actions. (unless there actually _is_ a badge-powered terrorist, i suppose.)


----------



## Ys_

i didn't receive any more badges which i wouldn't have had any use for anyway.
Also since the only way i'll save my skin is by voting on koko then uwu *koko*


----------



## Mr. Ultracool

Mawile said:


> yeah i can vibe with a *Ysabel *vote.


Meow, too 
*Ysabel*


----------



## M&F

sorry, I am grotesquely late for the final hour update-

last, ah, half-hour


the wagons are doing 3-3!


----------



## Ys_

Mr. Ultracool said:


> Meow, too
> *Ysabel*


UM why the betrayal... :c to think I used my *safeguard *move on you... please reconsider


----------



## Mawile

what happens in a tie


----------



## Zero Moment

either another time extension or randlynch


----------



## Ys_

Oh pls not another day extension lmfao read into it what you will but two 72 hour days takes its toll


----------



## Mr. Ultracool

Ysabel said:


> Oh pls not another day extension lmfao read into it what you will but two 72 hour days takes its toll





Ysabel said:


> Mr. Ultracool said:
> 
> 
> 
> Meow, too
> *Ysabel*
> 
> 
> 
> UM why the betrayal... :c to think I used my *safeguard *move on you... please reconsider
Click to expand...

I meowght *Abstain* , then.


----------



## Mawile

hey ultracool, did you get any notification about recieving a bulletproof vest (?) or is this the first you're hearing of it


----------



## M&F

for the record, I will probably randomize it if we land in a tie, unless people actually want another extension which doesn't seem to be the case


----------



## Mr. Ultracool

On the other hand, that Chart was really ameowzing, so I'm currently meowjorly townreading Kokorico...
*Ysabel*


----------



## Ys_

i lied, it wasn't a bulletproof vest... i just wanted mafia to think that but cat's out of the bag now. It was just a protective aura that protects the user for a day


----------



## Mr. Ultracool

Mawile said:


> hey ultracool, did you get any notification about recieving a bulletproof vest (?) or is this the first you're hearing of it


Comeow to think of it, I never heard of it before meow...


----------



## Zero Moment

Stop playing with our feelings, UC


----------



## qenya

i am consistently amazed at how a day phase can be _any_ length and all the action will _always_ happen in the last half-hour


----------



## Ys_

Ysabel said:


> i lied, it wasn't a bulletproof vest... i just wanted mafia to think that but cat's out of the bag now. It was just a protective aura that protects the user for a day


er night


----------



## Mawile

Ysabel said:


> Ysabel said:
> 
> 
> 
> i lied, it wasn't a bulletproof vest... i just wanted mafia to think that but cat's out of the bag now. It was just a protective aura that protects the user for a day
> 
> 
> 
> er night
Click to expand...

so what's the difference between that and your heal


----------



## Ys_

if you extend it i might as well vote for myself dearest MF :3


----------



## Ys_

*explode Mawile*
might as well
meh sorry team I messed up


----------



## Mawile

Ysabel said:


> *explode Mawile*
> might as well
> meh sorry team I messed up


akjhdfkjhdkjghdkjghjkhkfdjhgkjfdg


----------



## Zero Moment

wait what


----------



## Mawile

im gonna scream if you're not bluffing


----------



## qenya

oh for crying out loud

*Bluwiikoon*


----------



## Zero Moment

lmao if this was a bluff


----------



## Mawile

I DON'T EVEN HAVE A MEME READY TO POST FOR IF I DIE


----------



## qenya

kokorico said:


> oh for crying out loud
> 
> *Bluwiikoon*


or, no, wait, ZM maybe?

@Mr. Ultracool which of the two would you rather vote for. we have about 5 minutes to decide.


----------



## qenya

Zero Moment said:


> lmao if this was a bluff


oh fuck i didn't even think about that


----------



## Mawile

Mawile said:


> I DON'T EVEN HAVE A MEME READY TO POST FOR IF I DIE


nvm found one lmao


----------



## qenya

or alternatively

o great god mampersand, will you please grant us another extension orz orz


----------



## Mr. Ultracool

kokorico said:


> kokorico said:
> 
> 
> 
> oh for crying out loud
> 
> *Bluwiikoon*
> 
> 
> 
> or, no, wait, ZM maybe?
> 
> @Mr. Ultracool which of the two would you rather vote for. we have about 5 minutes to decide.
Click to expand...

Why one of those two, meow? Uhm, if I'd _have_ to choose, meow vote would probably fall on Bluwiikoon - didn't he Team with Zori, who wasn't Meownaligned?


----------



## Mawile

im mashing f5


----------



## qenya

Mr. Ultracool said:


> Why one of those two, meow? Uhm, if I'd _have_ to choose, meow vote would probably fall on Bluwiikoon - didn't he Team with Zori, who wasn't Meownaligned?


well, i mean, we're running out of options

i'm assuming you don't want to vote for myself, i'd obviously rather you didn't vote for me, and that only leaves those two or myuma. (or stryke i guess.)


----------



## Zero Moment

Mr. Ultracool said:


> kokorico said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> kokorico said:
> 
> 
> 
> oh for crying out loud
> 
> *Bluwiikoon*
> 
> 
> 
> or, no, wait, ZM maybe?
> 
> @Mr. Ultracool which of the two would you rather vote for. we have about 5 minutes to decide.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Why one of those two, meow? Uhm, if I'd _have_ to choose, meow vote would probably fall on Bluwiikoon - didn't he Team with Zori, who wasn't Meownaligned?
Click to expand...

zori was 3p tho, not mafia. if blu was mafia there'd be no way for him to know zori was 3p


----------



## qenya

kokorico said:


> don't want to vote for myself


* for _yourself_


----------



## Mr. Ultracool

kokorico said:


> Mr. Ultracool said:
> 
> 
> 
> Why one of those two, meow? Uhm, if I'd _have_ to choose, meow vote would probably fall on Bluwiikoon - didn't he Team with Zori, who wasn't Meownaligned?
> 
> 
> 
> well, i mean, we're running out of options
> 
> i'm assuming you don't want to vote for myself, i'd obviously rather you didn't vote for me, and that only leaves those two or myuma. (or stryke i guess.)
Click to expand...

I'd really like to kmeow what Myuma targeted Bluwiikoon with, anyways. But I guess for meow, *Bluwiikoon*?


----------



## Zero Moment

smh
Myuma is confirmed town, more or less
prob just the willgiving move


----------



## qenya

kokorico said:


> Zero Moment said:
> 
> 
> 
> lmao if this was a bluff
> 
> 
> 
> oh fuck i didn't even think about that
Click to expand...

my decision is: if it _is _a bluff then ysabel fucking deserves the win

glgl


----------



## M&F

*The day is over. Stop posting, and hold for results.*


----------



## M&F

Night Four of Tournament Coverage

I can't shake this uneasy feeling, as though the mob justice of earlier days has continued in some form... I have no way of knowing what is happenning on the ground at the moment, as I am still recovering from yesterday's electric surprise -- and a few additional ones I have contracted along the line -- but it seems peaceful at the moment, so I will hope for the best.
-Colress, Researcher, Engineer, and Pokémon Trainer

... Hm? Hm?! You are saying that _what_ happened to *Falkner*?! I will be, I will, ow, ow, my leg, I did not expect my leg to cramp up to this extent, hm? Is my audio-to-text device is still on? Let us see here, let us see here.

*kokorico, the Falkner, is dead. e was Town.

48 hours for night actions.*



Spoiler: final vote count and history



kokorico(3): Bluwiikoon, Zero Moment, Ysabel
Bluwiikoon(2): kokorico, Mr. Ultracool
Ysabel(1): Mawile






Spoiler: you ping pang pong done it now kid



@Mawile
RedneckPhoenix
@Bluwiikoon
Herbe
rari_teh
@Zero Moment
@Mr. Ultracool
@ミ☆ ᴍyᴜᴍᴀ
Vipera Magnifica
@Stryke
Tofu
Negrek
kokorico
Zori
bruh moment
Hydreigon25
JackPK
@Ysabel


----------



## qenya




----------



## M&F

Day Five Pregame Column

Man, I don't feel like writing these anymore. Thought I'd just do this thing and then go brag to all the girls that my name is on Pokémon Journal... but this is just a whole lotta work. Everyday, these global hotshots have a new shenanigan in them... and it's the city that suffers the most, in the end.

Who cares if *Lt. Surge* turned up dead, all broken bones in a supermarket cart? Like, say what you will about respectin' the troops... I hear that guy was really, really up to no good. While people are wasting their breaths on celebs, Driftveil's still feeling the aftereffects of whatever the hell that was from a couple days ago... I can't even ride my bike around here anymore without running over a zillion bumpy cracks. Not that I ain't ever heard of catching air... but there's a limit to everything.

And I mean, hey, if I gotta kill two birds with one stone, I guess that *Allister* kid also had an incident around one of those cracks? So yeah, if them authorities don't get their act together for folk like you and me... at least, maybe, they'll be more worried if it's hurtin' their precious superstars.

*Mawile, the Allister, has died. He was Town.
Zero Moment, the Lt. Surge, has died. He was Mafia.

48 hours for discussion.*



Spoiler: how disappingting



Mawile
RedneckPhoenix
@Bluwiikoon
Herbe
rari_teh
Zero Moment
@Mr. Ultracool
@ミ☆ ᴍyᴜᴍᴀ
Vipera Magnifica
@Stryke
Tofu
Negrek
kokorico
Zori
bruh moment
Hydreigon25
JackPK
@Ysabel


[/QUOTE]


----------



## Mawile

(i will stop posting now kthxbye)


----------



## Bluwiikoon

BRUH

One wolf down!!!  I'm guessing Mawile had a killing action, or maybe a destiny bond action since he's a ghost type?


----------



## Ys_

... Why am I still alive... 
Ok let's get this over with. Stryke are you self-aligned?


----------



## Ys_

Oh. Also. Sorry for the bluff ^^'


----------



## Bluwiikoon

Ok yikes there really aren't that many of us left  This is gonna be one long day!

Right now uhhhhh here's how I'm feeling:

Ysabel - I know the terrorist ploy was weird, but overall I still don't want to yeet Ysabel today? I'm very pocketed probably, but I trust her vibes ^^
Myuma - They definitely give out wills, but is that alignment-indicative? Unsure. Very quiet player
Ultracool - A lot of things he's been doing haven't made much sense and it's making me go hmmmm :(
Stryke - I'm scared about what happens if we yeet him LOL. Could be a Jester or a serial killer?


----------



## Mr. Ultracool

That's a surprising developemeownt!
 As it turns meowt, nobody targeted Mawile with an action toNight 
Meowbe the Mafia has a meoember who is a Ninja?


----------



## Stryke

Ysabel said:


> ... Why am I still alive...
> Ok let's get this over with. Stryke are you self-aligned?


Nop


----------



## Stryke

I wonder if there's a scumchat


----------



## haneko

Hi everyone! I've been quiet over the past few days because my internet connection has been having unexpected problems. Sorry for the silence. 

Ultracool: I "visited" Blu because I gave him the ability to write a will, I guess.



Mr. Ultracool said:


> Meowbe there _were_ five Meowfia Meowmbers after all and there's meowrely a tailor/janitor going ameownd? That would explain the lack of Lylo


I'm wondering this too, tbh... it's hard to believe the majority of players we bumped off are town. Or maybe town is just a bunch of idiots.

Looking through the pages I've missed to catch up. Thoughts coming later...


----------



## Ys_

Well. My thoughts are that Stryke seems to be playing a bit too passively to be aligned with either side so I honestly don't know what to do with him.


Stryke said:


> kokorico said:
> 
> 
> 
> hey stryke, what are the names of your powers
> 
> 
> 
> Power 1 is called Team Plasma's Not Botherin' Me, and Power 2 is Not Goin Around Decidin' They're Bad
Click to expand...

So my question is what's your win condition?


Stryke said:


> I wonder if there's a scumchat


Your guess is as good as mine lol

Also I'm glad you're back, Myuma


----------



## Stryke

Ysabel said:


> Stryke said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> kokorico said:
> 
> 
> 
> hey stryke, what are the names of your powers
> 
> 
> 
> Power 1 is called Team Plasma's Not Botherin' Me, and Power 2 is Not Goin Around Decidin' They're Bad
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> So my question is what's your win condition?
Click to expand...

Win when all scum players are dead


----------



## Stryke

Oh yeah oh yeah I got some of Mawiles badges so I'm back in the game babey, just TRY and take them away from me (please don't actually I wanna keep them this time)


----------



## Ys_

Ok. Anyway, glad you still trust me Blu. The thing is that there may be two mafia left, which means we're at lylo or mylo (?) so umm could it be a good idea to abstain today?


----------



## Stryke

@Hydreigon25 I get that sometimes you want to react to funny posts on here and your finger can slip or whatever but for gods sake if you really struggle to not react to game-relevant posts that much then just stop following the thread. This is like the 5th time this game someone's telling you


----------



## Hydreigon25

Ysabel said:


> Also I'm glad you're back, Myuma





Ysabel said:


> Ok. Anyway, glad you still trust me Blu.


To clarify why i reacted, This ^ is what I was reacting to @Stryke ( and PLEASE DON'T angry react this post )



Stryke said:


> @Hydreigon25 I get that sometimes you want to react to funny posts on here and your finger can slip or whatever but for gods sake if you really struggle to not react to game-relevant posts that much then just stop following the thread. This is like the 5th time this game someone's telling you


----------



## Ys_

Fam just don't react to anything at all


----------



## Mr. Ultracool

Ysabel said:


> Ok. Anyway, glad you still trust me Blu. The thing is that there may be two mafia left, which means we're at lylo or mylo (?) so umm could it be a good idea to abstain today?


But if we're at 2:3 right meow, abstaining would lead to the Mafia winning tomeowrrow.


----------



## Bluwiikoon

*Hydreigon25*

For real though, we gotta vote carefully today. :( Anybuddy else got tier lists to share for now?


----------



## Ys_

I'll post mine later. I want to see Myuma's thoughts first. Though my list is currently similar to yours, Blu, except I trust Stryke more now. I really liked his straightforwardness to my questions.


----------



## Mr. Ultracool

Team Rocket Boss (Confirmed Town)
Meowself, of course 

Rocket Admin (Strong Townlean)

Rocket Grunt (Townlean)
Myuma, due to having proven to have a role with a rolemeower that seemeowngly is townaligned. Also has meowde quite a few in-depth posts explaining her reasoning behind suspicions.

My Name's ??? (Utter Meowstery)
Stryke is a bit of a mystery right meow, due to not knowing his role meowers himself and not being all that active. Meowever, such a claim would be incredibly weird for a meowmber of the meowfia to make due to being inherently a tad scummeow, which has meowsed me to slightly townread Stryke.

Trouble (Scumlean)
Ysabel, due to having meowde claims that weren't entirely true and that deeply confusing bluff. (Also, this post could be taken as a scumslip, if someowne were to put on a Tinfoil Hat  Since you mentioned everyone but Bluewiikoon and yourself, meow hilarious would it be if you were meowfia?)

Double Trouble (Strong Scumlean)
Bluwiikoon, thanks to having an ISO that is meowstly made out of nothing but extremely filler-ish posts. Also, the 16-ish posts that are meowre game-relevant than the rest ( meowgth have missed one or two, but it's not much meowre than that) contain puzzling things. Here, for example, the sentiment to be careful is so generalized as to be almeowst obvious - someowthing that I, when I was a meowfia meowmber, would also frequently do. Furthermeowre, some of Bluwiikoon's other posts throw even meowre shade on him due to some actions like claimeowing to have determined VM to be town in a way that can't have had any relation to his role or, meowbe even more damningly, claiming to be yet ameowther Doc with an entirely unrelated badge-meowered ability that turns him into a Doccop- who, in the end, couldn't use his powers due to coincidentally being blocked.
Also, that badge meower is an incentive against meownkilling him, which sure is a handy happenstance.


Also, I'd like to propose a meowssclaim (as in, revealing everything), because at this point, keeping someowthing hidden from the rest of the town is pointless, in meow opinion at least.


----------



## Mr. Ultracool

I'll start. 
Meown Power: Where's Togepi run off to?
Meowkes me able to watch who visited another player
Badge Meower: Did it take my remote control? 
Enables me to tell what someown was targeted with. 
Badge Dispenser: Gives meowt one Earth Badge.
Lorewise, I'm on a meowssion to capture Togepi, which has run away from meow.


----------



## Ys_

The name of my free power is *detect. *I already claimed that. So the thing about Detect is that it protects not just against kill attempts but against any action. So when I use it I'm like a super doctor. But I can't use it two nights in a row because that would be broken. I didn't use it tonight because I already used it yesterday.
My badge power is *squash* which prevents lynching for a day. I used it because I wanted to test my theory that Koko was alien or mafia. Apparently that was a completely bad move for which I apologize. I wanted mafia to think it was something else, though, which is why I lied. Also I find it weird that your moves have flavor names like that but apparently Stryke's are like that too so *shrug*


----------



## Mr. Ultracool

Ysabel said:


> Also I find it weird that your moves have flavor names like that but apparently Stryke's are like that too so


Actually, that meowght be relevant? @Myuma, @Bluwiikoon - are your abilities named after meowes or not?
Irregardles - Ysabel, what is your meowpinion about Bluwiikoon? After re-reading that ISO, he's starting to look pretty scummy, imo


----------



## Mr. Ultracool

* @ミ☆ ᴍyᴜᴍᴀ


----------



## Ys_

I'm honestly not sure. Like I said, I keep oscillating on him. He's had his lolwut moments but I believe he's really trying to help town. I've played with him before and I think that's just his personality.


----------



## Ys_

Like I thought he was softing cop but on rereading that thing with VM it does make sense that he tried to save him. Well, Koko originally because Koko is a strong player and Blu has played with Koko before. So I think he made sense as a save target for Blu?


----------



## Mr. Ultracool

Ysabel said:


> Like I thought he was softing cop but on rereading that thing with VM it does make sense that he tried to save him.


Sure, it meowkes absolute sense. But imo, him never actually saving VM makes that sound fakeclaim-y, in my meowpinion. Also, meowst other Badge Actions had at least someowthing to so with the main one - where are Oneshotcop and Doc connected?


----------



## M&F

alright, folks, I have an announcement to make:

@ミ☆ ᴍyᴜᴍᴀ has had to drop out of the game, so, @Mistyx will be taking up their slot for the remainder of the game


----------



## Ys_

Yeah. Can't speak for his powers but one of my actions also didn't go through or got modified someway, which could have been caused by whatever action ZM had. Remember he kept talking about redirection? So the similarity in circumstance makes me believe him more. And actually, I'm thinking maybe you were redirected as well, which explains why you didn't see anyone visiting Mawile. That's what I think, anyway.


----------



## Mr. Ultracool

Ysabel said:


> I'm thinking maybe you were redirected as well, which explains why you didn't see anyone visiting Mawile. That's what I think, anyway.


Wouldn't I have received a meowssage saying that nobody visited whoever I was redirected meowards? Sounds pretty plausible, though.


----------



## Mr. Ultracool

Sorry for the doublemeowst, but I just asked and I would have received the name of the new target. So someow, Mawile wasn't targeted at all - meowbe Mawile was a Bleeder?


----------



## Ys_

? Even if that's the case something still doesn't make sense. Especially the amount of last night's deaths. I mean Jack rari and Negrek iirc? If mafia shot Mawile last night then that still makes four kills/shots. And meanwhile tonight's shot seemingly disappeared altogether? Something doesn't look right. And I'm wondering where all of Myuma's other will's went.

@Mistyx I know the circumstances of you joining the game aren't the best :c but I'm sure you'll do your best! So when you can, could you please let us know Myuma's actions?


----------



## Ys_

Well, actually Blu probably saved someone. Blu, what was your action today?


----------



## Stryke

Hi Mist nice to have you


----------



## Novae

hello

i'll be back to claim stuff shortly, i must check in to scum chat and ensure my claim holds up


----------



## Mr. Ultracool

Mistyx said:


> hello
> 
> i'll be back to claim stuff shortly, i must check in to scum chat and ensure my claim holds up



Wait a meowment!
*Mistyx*


----------



## M&F

six hours left to EoD!

and I don't recall there being any non-joke votes yet, hmm


----------



## Mr. Ultracool

Meowth, that's right! We're gonna have to vote, meow!
*Bluwiikoon*, do you have anything to say toDay? (Meowbrably gonna retract later, if you respond to my FoS.)


----------



## Bluwiikoon

Ysabel said:


> Well, actually Blu probably saved someone. Blu, what was your action today?


I actually protected you!  Going by the sheer numbers of kills in previous days, I guess it worked out?

My brain is going _turgleturgle_ right now, please bear with me sir Ultracool! ^^


----------



## Bluwiikoon

Mr. Ultracool said:


> Double Trouble (Strong Scumlean)
> Bluwiikoon, thanks to having an ISO that is meowstly made out of nothing but extremely filler-ish posts. Also, the 16-ish posts that are meowre game-relevant than the rest ( meowgth have missed one or two, but it's not much meowre than that) contain puzzling things. Here, for example, the sentiment to be careful is so generalized as to be almeowst obvious - someowthing that I, when I was a meowfia meowmber, would also frequently do. Furthermeowre, some of Bluwiikoon's other posts throw even meowre shade on him due to some actions like claimeowing to have determined VM to be town in a way that can't have had any relation to his role or, meowbe even more damningly, claiming to be yet ameowther Doc with an entirely unrelated badge-meowered ability that turns him into a Doccop- who, in the end, couldn't use his powers due to coincidentally being blocked.
> Also, that badge meower is an incentive against meownkilling him, which sure is a handy happenstance.
> 
> 
> Also, I'd like to propose a meowssclaim (as in, revealing everything), because at this point, keeping someowthing hidden from the rest of the town is pointless, in meow opinion at least.


Hi hi! ^^ I parsed VM as guaranteed town because I parsed N0's events as my heal getting redirected onto him, which prevented a mafia kill. I think at that point in the game I didn't know if there were more healers, so that made the most sense to me!

Not sure how useful my ability is if I need to die for it to activate, but I don't see a problem with the powers? :( I assume it's just tailored to what the Pokémon M&F gave me can do! And again, I've mentioned this before, but I feel like a surplus of healers could be a balance attempt due to the sheer number of nightkills we've been experiencing.  Not much I can do if I get blocked, sadly.

Regardless, my Pokémon is Gothorita! My cantrip is Heal Pulse, and my badge ability is Witch of Punishment. ^^ My badge ability utilises Gothorita's trapping abilities and psychic power to notify the thread of the identity of the wolf who killed me.



Mr. Ultracool said:


> Ysabel said:
> 
> 
> 
> Also I find it weird that your moves have flavor names like that but apparently Stryke's are like that too so
> 
> 
> 
> Actually, that meowght be relevant? @Myuma, @Bluwiikoon - are your abilities named after meowes or not?
Click to expand...

Oops I answered this above  I got one move and one non-move name!

I also want to apologise if my play hasn't been the best for this game ^^; My brain has been experiencing some turbulence so I'm not really absorbing a lot of information or thinking useful things. I'll probably be taking a break from mafia after this game just so I can... I dunno, switch brain off and then on again? xD I hope I've been fun to play with regardless though!  And I hope everyone is hydrating!


----------



## Novae

i gave uh

negrek, ultra, then blu the ability to write a will after death though i have not been made aware of which nights

i also was able to see who all of negrek's targets were and their role PM (as a retroactive action since myuma idled)

n0 they checked mawile, n1 they shot herbe, n2 they protected themself, and n3 they blocked ZM - i've figured these all out individual from their role PM since it was a cycle JOAT so that's cool


----------



## Ys_

*Mr Ultracool*
You know those nights when Mr UC allegedly targeted himself or didn't target anyone were the nights with more kills? Maybe it's nothing but I feel like maybe there's something we're missing and maybe that's it?


----------



## Mr. Ultracool

That's not comeowpletely true - I was meowronic enough to squander my meowers on Nights 2 and 3, i.e. Days 3 and 4 (Counting the first meowne as Night 0); Meowever, meowltiple people died on Days 2 (2 people), 3, (3 people), 4 (2 people) and 5 (3 people).


----------



## Mr. Ultracool

Ysabel said:


> Mr Ultracool


Meowlso, just to prevent a Meowsskill: *Stryke*, you've meowstly been pretty quiet so far. What's meowr opinion? We're meowbably close enough to the end that every suspicion meownts!


----------



## Novae




----------



## M&F

three hours left! ( @Mistyx , feel free to ask for a time extension if you feel you'll need one. everyone else, angry react if you must-)

current votes:
Mr. Ultracool (1) - Ysabel (#1682)
Styrke (1) - Mr. Ultracool (#1864)


----------



## Mr. Ultracool

MampersandF said:


> three hours left! ( @Mistyx , feel free to ask for a time extension if you feel you'll need one. everyone else, angry react if you must-)
> 
> current votes:
> Mr. Ultracool (1) - Ysabel (#1682)
> Styrke (1) - Mr. Ultracool (#1864)


Judging from that votemeownt, a time extension would probably be extremeowly helpful, in general


----------



## Bluwiikoon

Just gonna throw a vote in for *Mr. Ultracool* in case I miss EoD ^^;


----------



## Mr. Ultracool

Bluwiikoon said:


> Just gonna throw a vote in for *Mr. Ultracool* in case I miss EoD ^^;


Why? What have I done to meowke myself look scummy?


----------



## Ys_

Can't speak for Blu. But It seems to me like there are two options (everything this game has been really weird tbh and I'm  about it) one is that Blu saved you, which confirms you as town. The other is that Negrek's roleblock of ZM altered an action which would mean that you aren't confirmed. A thing I'm confused about, as well, is why you asked Myuma for her action on Blu if she had targetted you with the same action on a previous night in the past. It seems like you're eager to mislynch someone?

as for the death count...
I'll try to be back before eod to elaborate but my theory is that there seems to be an extra action (an extra death?) which no one can explain, so someone must be lying (well obviously xD) and from my point of view, that person can only be you or stryke since there are a few of your actions that don't make sense and we don't know anything about Stryke's actions or lack of them? xD except for his flavor which seems to indicate that if he dies he may turn antitown. If I'm understanding what he's claimed correctly.


----------



## M&F

last hour!

Mr. Ultracool (2) - Ysabel (#1682), Bluwiikoon (#1688)
Styrke (1) - Mr. Ultracool (#1864)


----------



## Novae

ok what are claims

if i am not responded to promptly im probably going to request a 18-24h extension


----------



## Ys_

just request an extension tbh
I'm head empty today


----------



## Mr. Ultracool

Mistyx said:


> ok what are claims
> 
> if i am not responded to promptly im probably going to request a 18-24h extension





Ysabel said:


> just request an extension tbh
> I'm head empty today


Requesting an expansion meowght really be good for all of us  
Meowertheless, the Claims are:
Meowth - Watcher
Stryke - Nobody knows, not even Stryke
You - Will-Giver
Bluwiikoon - Doc
Ysabel - Doc


----------



## M&F

well, seems the prevailing sentiment is for it anyway, so, *24-hour time extension*. EoD will be in the usual time tomorrow


----------



## Novae

targets for those roles?


----------



## Ys_

kokorico said:


> Chart of claimed night actions from our protective roles so far, since I was getting confused even with a spreadsheet and it's handier to have them all in one place.
> 
> Nothing's really jumping out at me, except that _if_ healer clash is a mechanic, I think the only way it could have taken effect is if either Ysabel or Blu is a mafia doctor who caused a clash on VM or rari respectively.
> 
> 
> YsabelBluwiikoonZero MomentVipera MagnificaNegrekN0Heal rariHeal kokorico (redirected to VM)Bodyguard skytiniRedirect actions on kokoricoGreencheck on MawileN1must rechargeHeal rariBodyguard Herbe; Herbe died anyway[unsure - did he ever reveal this?]Shoot HerbeN2Bulletproofise someone; this person is still aliveHeal VM; VM died anywayBodyguard Stryke ("didn't want the mafia to activate him")Died; action unknownHealed somebody, but not VM or Mr UltracoolN3Heal rari; rari died anywayUsed his wolf-bait powerBodyguard Mawile; bulletproof popped(dead)Roleblocked someone and died


For Mr UC it's iirc N0 watch VM - see Blu visiting
N1: watch himself - see no ine
N2: he forgot to send an action
N3: watch Blu and see Myuma visiting him
N4: watch Mawile: no one visited. Correct me if I'm wrong on anything. Also my badge power was preventing a lynch, not giving out a vest. If you have any other questions just ask


----------



## Stryke

Let's rand it baby!
*Stryke*


----------



## Stryke

Mr. Ultracool said:


> Ysabel said:
> 
> 
> 
> Mr Ultracool
> 
> 
> 
> Meowlso, just to prevent a Meowsskill: *Stryke*, you've meowstly been pretty quiet so far. What's meowr opinion? We're meowbably close enough to the end that every suspicion meownts!
Click to expand...

No thoughts at all as always. I will backread tomorrow!


----------



## Stryke

Oh yeah, one thought: UC voting for me in what I can only assume to be a pressure vote to get me to contribute would come across as hella sus to me if I didn't know that I was town. Tbh, it's still kinda sus to me, bc for all I know I could change alignments once I die, and maybe that's something wolf!UC is betting on to gain an upper hand. 

Having said all this, I realize that it's also extremely sus of me to use his vote as a springboard to get myself lynched by voting for myself to tie up the scores, but like... What are you guys gonna do? Lynch me for it?


----------



## Stryke

Stryke said:


> Having said all this, I realize that it's also extremely sus of me to use his vote as a springboard to get myself lynched by voting for myself to tie up the scores, but like... What are you guys gonna do? Lynch me for it?


I'm doing it to uhhhhhhhh... Incite discussion, and use myself as an incentive to get us to decide on a vote. Yeah that sounds good let's go with that


----------



## Ys_

*Stryke*
I'm intrigued tbh


----------



## Novae

i am confusion


----------



## Mr. Ultracool

Mistyx said:


> i am confusion


*Stryke* seemeowngly acts like a fool in that he wants to be killed? Meownyways, it's not like we'd have a better target, anyways


----------



## Ys_

Let me put it this way. We have six options.
1- lynch you
2- lynch Blu
3- lynch Mr UC
4- lynch me
5- lynch Stryke
6- abstain.

There are probably 2 towns and 2 mafias by now, plus whatever Stryke is. Unless there's only one mafia left and town was playing weirdly, but occam's razor says that's not the case. Concerning Stryke, rari's theory, and maybe his too, is that he has a secret win condition that no one knows about, not even him, but apparently his powers only unlock once he's dead. I kept thinking Stryke was a survivor or something like that, you know. Some role that doesn't want to get lynched and wins if he survives until the end of the game, but that doesn't seem to be the case if he wants to be lynched. IMO he's been playing too passively to be a jester or alien, so it seems like rari's theory is plausible. Now, if we lynch town, town loses. If we lynch mafia, mafia only has one member left and the game becomes even longer than it's been (gosh xD). But mafia won't ever lynch themselves and Stryke won't ever lynch anyone but himself (amirite?) so the only possible lynch candidate town and mafia would agree on is Stryke. If everyone wants to take the risk, that is. Otherwise, I still say we lynch Mr UC, but I'm just vibing at this point ahah ^^'


----------



## Mr. Ultracool

Meowr problem is that, if we don't kill a meowfia and the meowfia kills a town member, we suffer an instant meowss. Although, Bluwiikoon claimeowed to be a Doc, so we might still be fine killing *Stryke*?


----------



## Stryke

Mistyx said:


> i am confusion


----------



## Stryke

Ysabel said:


> and Stryke won't ever lynch anyone but himself (amirite?)


Not necessarily true, I voted Zori D1. But I get what you mean


----------



## Ys_

@blu what do you think?


----------



## Ys_

Stryke said:


> Not necessarily true, I voted Zori D1. But I get what you mean


Oh, yeah, that's right. Also just to make sure, _do_ you want to get lynched? And if so, why now?


----------



## Stryke

Ysabel said:


> Stryke said:
> 
> 
> 
> Not necessarily true, I voted Zori D1. But I get what you mean
> 
> 
> 
> Oh, yeah, that's right. Also just to make sure, _do_ you want to get lynched? And if so, why now?
Click to expand...

Yeah, I kinda always wanted to, just to see what would happen. I only chose now bc UC voted for me, so I figured now there might actually have a chance of it happening; before, it would've just seemed HELLA sus to start a wagon on myself with no good reason other than "why the hell not", and it probably wouldn't go anywhere


----------



## Mr. Ultracool

Stryke said:


> Ysabel said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Stryke said:
> 
> 
> 
> Not necessarily true, I voted Zori D1. But I get what you mean
> 
> 
> 
> Oh, yeah, that's right. Also just to make sure, _do_ you want to get lynched? And if so, why now?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Yeah, I kinda always wanted to, just to see what would happen. I only chose now bc UC voted for me, so I figured now there might actually have a chance of it happening; before, it would've just seemed HELLA sus to start a wagon on myself with no good reason other than "why the hell not", and it probably wouldn't go anywhere
Click to expand...

So... meowt to say we wouldn't still kill you, but would you mind sharing your reason for wanting to meowote yourself, *Stryke*?


----------



## Ys_

fam I think he already said xD he wants to know what his powers are. Also I think you've already voted for him four times lol

Also @Bluwiikoon what do you think? you're the only one who hasn't said anything (no pressure though <3 and fwiw I think you're doing great, don't be hard on yourself and remember to stay hydrated too :3).

Same for you Mistyx but I understand if you're confused.. though if you have any comment, I'd be happy to take it into mind!


----------



## M&F

oops I am 40 minutes late. ah, 5 hours 20 minutes to EoD, I guess

Styrke (3) - Mr. Ultracool (#1864), Stryke (#1698), Ysabel (#1702)
Mr. Ultracool (1) - Bluwiikoon (#1688)


----------



## Novae

/shrug

*Stryke*


----------



## Novae

i legit have zero clue what's going on

and it seems to be fine staying that way


----------



## M&F

three hours left!

Styrke (4) - Mr. Ultracool (#1864), Stryke (#1698), Ysabel (#1702), Mistyx (#1716)
Mr. Ultracool (1) - Bluwiikoon (#1688)


----------



## Stryke

UC voting for me like 4 times is worrying to me, like he's activating some kind of power


----------



## M&F

last hour!


----------



## Bluwiikoon

Oh god oh fuck!!



Ysabel said:


> Also @Bluwiikoon what do you think? you're the only one who hasn't said anything (no pressure though <3 and fwiw I think you're doing great, don't be hard on yourself and remember to stay hydrated too :3).


I'm really concerned and worried tbh, but I'm not sure what else I can do right now. ^^; I've no idea what Stryke's powers are and I'm also admittedly curious, but also... aaaaa!!!


----------



## Bluwiikoon

Oh, also!! Thank you for your kindness and reminding me to do self care, Ysabel!!!  I definitely need a hydrate right now, hehe!


----------



## Ys_

Yeah, I get you, I really do. I think it may be worth the risk, though..? I dunno, but my feelings about Stryke aren't necessarily bad. And I'm curious...

But if something bad does happen then.. I suppose we'll know who to blame ^^;


----------



## Bluwiikoon

I'll feel silly if his power does something like, yeet anyone who didn't vote for him xD Or something!


----------



## Mr. Ultracool

Ysabel said:


> But if something bad does happen then.. I suppose we'll know who to blame ^^;


Well, at least meowst of the living players agreed whom to kill, so if choosing Stryke turns meowt to have been a bad idea, we'll all have been tricked


----------



## Ys_

lol owo I really hope not Dx That would be even more weirdness than what's already been going on but yeah tbh I'd prefer it if his powers activated after he's lynched. And yeah UC don't worry, I'm taking part of the blame hehe

Hey Stryke do you have any insight on how your powers activate? Does it say just being killed in general or being yeeted specifically?


----------



## Bluwiikoon

I do have one last question if @Stryke  is around - do you know who your Pokemon partner is?


----------



## Stryke

Ysabel said:


> lol owo I really hope not Dx That would be even more weirdness than what's already been going on but yeah tbh I'd prefer it if his powers activated after he's lynched. And yeah UC don't worry, I'm taking part of the blame hehe
> 
> Hey Stryke do you have any insight on how your powers activate? Does it say just being killed in general or being yeeted specifically?


Killed in general


Bluwiikoon said:


> I do have one last question if @Stryke  is around - do you know who your Pokemon partner is?


Mantine


----------



## Ys_

Well good luck people


----------



## Bluwiikoon

We all tried our best!


----------



## Bluwiikoon

I finally got a drink and put more drinks in my fridge LOL

Hydration life!


----------



## M&F

*The day is over. Stop posting, and hold for results.*


----------



## M&F

End of Tournament Coverage

Today, the Pokémon World Tournament has drawn to its conclusion, and one trainer was named the greatest in the world. However... I strenously disagree!

I had hoped to see the strength of Pokémon and Trainers coming together reach the apex; instead, nothing of the sort has been gained, or even ventured, by this open farce of competition. Instead of battles, the winner excelled in backstage antics. Instead of proving his bond with the Pokémon, he did nothing more than prove his monetary bonds with the organizers.

Has this whole experiment been wrong from the very premise? Are the bonds between people and Pokémon not truly strong? Must we resign ourselves to a world where force and privilege are the only meaningful drivers? Was... Was Ghetsis right?
-Colress, Researcher, Engineer, and rather disappointed

*Stryke, the Marlon, is dead. He was Town.

Mafia wins!
Herbe wins!*

--------------------

congratulations, *Bluwiikoon, Zero Moment, Tofu and Ysabel*! and, by a slightly different token, *Herbe* as well

I'll have everyone's role PMs and the night action logs up soon!


----------



## Bluwiikoon

Sorry for deceiving all of y'all, and I hope you had fun regardless!  One funny thing to note is that all of us in wolfchat received a Trio Badge from Herbe, so that's how we figured out Ysabel was outgroup!


----------



## Bluwiikoon

Shoutouts to Zori for figuring out I was fishy on day 1, kokorico for consistently scumreading me, and all the folks in the final two days who correctly scumread me and made it hard for me to dodge the bullet


----------



## Ys_

Yeah, I'm sorry everyone too. And really sorry for the bluff. I was sure it wouldn't work, and in fact it didn't cross my mind that it would. And sorry Koko for the heat :c but I kind of wanted to make myself look bad so neither Blu nor ZM would be lynched


----------



## Bluwiikoon

Sorry Colress and sorry Charles for blowing up half of Driftveil


----------



## Tofu

ilu mafia friends, sorry I died so fast


----------



## Bluwiikoon

Tofu was almost completely truthful about her powers, too!


----------



## Ys_

fwiw I think the biggest reason you died was because bm had a red check on you. At least that's the conclusion I came to


----------



## Tofu

Yeah honestly, I would have sounded just as bad if I were town. I misread my badge distribution thing and I didn't even make it up! My copy thing was partially fake, though (as I guess you will see when the roles are posted)


----------



## M&F

role PMs first!



Spoiler: role PMs






Spoiler: Mawile / Allister



Today's Pokémon Journal feature: *ALLISTER and GIGANTAMAX GENGAR*






Interview spot!
PJ: According to you, what does it take to win?
A: ... the only reason I can battle in front of so many people without completely losing my cool is thanks to you, Champion.
PJ: I see! So it's like you're *Town*? Would you win, then, if all scum players were dead?


Move showcase!
*G-Max Terror* - _Day action_ | _Activate by PM, designating a player_ | _Only one use per game; at least 3 players must be alive when this is used_
For the rest of the current Day phase (plus a brief time extension): you and the designated player may not cast lynch votes; other players can only vote to lynch you or the designated player; other players can only post to cast votes.​*Maximize* - _Daytime power_ | _Activate by PM, designating one or more players_ | _Must pay 1 or more Badges to use_
You may designate additional players with G-Max Terror, up to the amount of badges you've paid to activate this power. You cannot designate all living players; at least one must be unaffected by the action for it to work.​

Badge feature!
On the phase after your death, you distribute Ghost Badges. You can choose one of the following options:
-Give 1 Ghost Badge to three players of your choice
-Give 2 Ghost Badges to one player of your choice, and 1 Ghost Badge to another player of your choice
-Give 3 Ghost Badges to one player of your choice
If you do not choose during the phase after your death, your badges will be distributed randomly instead.





Spoiler: RedneckPhoenix / Cheren



Today's Pokémon Journal feature: *CHEREN and STOUTLAND*







Interview spot!
PJ: According to you, what does it take to win?
C: I made it where I am because Pokémon were by my side.
PJ: I see! So it's like you're *Town*? Would you win, then, if all scum players were dead?


Move showcase!
*Intimidate* - _Nighttime power_ | _Always automatically active_ | _Unlimited use_
Each time a player targets you with a night action, that player is informed that you are mafia, even if you are not, and even if the action they used was not an alignment check.​*Odor Sleuth* - _Night action_ | _Activate by PM_ | _Must pay 2 Badges to use_
At the end of this night, you discover the identity and alignment of any players who targeted you with a night actions.​

Badge feature!
On the phase after your death, you distribute Basic Badges. You can choose one of the following options:
-Give 1 Basic Badge to three players of your choice
-Give 2 Basic Badges to one player of your choice, and 1 Basic Badge to another player of your choice
-Give 3 Basic Badges to one player of your choice
If you do not choose during the phase after your death, your badges will be distributed randomly instead.





Spoiler: Bluwiikoon / Bede



Today's Pokémon Journal feature: *BEDE and GOTHORITA*







Interview spot!
PJ: According to you, what does it take to win?
B: I will prove your faith in me was well placed, Chairman. I won't lose to anyone!
PJ: I see! So it's like you're *Mafia*, along with *Zero Moment (Lt. Surge)* and *Tofu (Viola)*, whom you've been communicating with privately, and possibly others? Would you win, then, if 50% of all living players were Mafia-aligned?


Move showcase!
*Fake Tears* - _Night action_ | _Activate by PM, naming a target_ | _Unlimited use_
The target player will be primed, exposing them to the Expanding Force and Discharge actions. No more than 1/3 of all living players can be primed at the same time.​*Expanding Force* - _Night action_ | _Activate by PM_ | _Unlimited use_
At the end of the night, all players who are presently primed (via Fake Tears or Metal Sound) die. For this action to be taken, you and Seshas (Jasmine) must both use no other actions.​*Future Sight* - _Night action_ | _Activate by PM, naming a target_ | _Must pay 2 Badges to use_
At the end of the night, the target player dies. This action will not be revealed to information-gathering roles. This action can be taken alongside others.​

Badge feature!
On the phase after your death, you distribute Fayrye Badges. You can choose one of the following options:
-Give 1 Fayrye Badge to each mafia-aligned player
-Give 2 Fayrye Badges to one player of your choice
If you do not choose during the phase after your death, your badges will be distributed randomly instead.





Spoiler: Herbe / Cilan



Today's Pokémon Journal feature: *CILAN and SIMISAGE*







Interview spot!
PJ: According to you, what does it take to win?
C: i like cilantro. what are you gonna do, evict me?
PJ: I see! So it's like you're *Self-aligned*? Would you win, then, if the conditions named below are fulfilled?


Move showcase!
*Striaton-Style Rotation* - _Special win condition_
You win (alongside any other winning factions) if one of the following is true:
-The Mafia faction has won, and you have an even number of badges at the end of the game
-The Town faction has won, and you have an odd number of badges at the end of the game
You have Self-aligned as your alignment, regardless of which faction you currently win with.​*Swagger* - _Night action_ | _Activate by PM_ | _Must pay 2 Badges to use_
Apply one of the following effects at the end of the night:
-If you currently would win with the Mafia: your alignment is counted as Mafia (in its interactions with other players' win conditions, information gathering, alignment-dependant actions, etc) until the next time that the faction you would win with changes.
-If you currently would win with the Town: the next Day phase's mod post will state that you are aligned with Town.​*Play Nice* - _Night action_ | _Activate by PM_ | _Must pay 3 Badges to use_
Starting at the end of the night, if this action is confirmed to be successful: a player is randomly chosen, out of the ones belonging to the faction you currently win with (after this move's badge cost is accounted for), and you may communicate privately with that player.​

Badge feature!
On the phase after your death, you distribute Trio Badges. You can choose one of the following options:
-Give 1 Trio Badge to each Mafia-aligned player
-Give 2 Trio Badges to one player of your choice
If you do not choose during the phase after your death, your badges will be distributed randomly instead.





Spoiler: rari_teh / Valerie



Today's Pokémon Journal feature: *VALERIE and SYLVEON*







Interview spot!
PJ: According to you, what does it take to win?
V: The elusive Fairy types may appear frail as a breeze and delicate as a bloom, but they are strong.
PJ: I see! So it's like you're *Town*? Would you win, then, if all scum players were dead?


Move showcase!
*Fae Trick* - _Night action_ | _Activate by PM, naming a target_ | _Unlimited use_
At the end of the next night phase (not the current one), the target player dies.​*Misty Terrain* - _Night action_ | _Activate by PM_ | _Must pay 2 Badges to use_
During this night, no players will die as a direct or indirect result of actions taken in the previous night phase.​

Badge feature!
On the phase after your death, you distribute Féerie Badges. You can choose one of the following options:
-Give 1 Féerie Badge to two players of your choice
-Give 2 Féerie Badges to one player of your choice
If you do not choose during the phase after your death, your badges will be distributed randomly instead.





Spoiler: Zero Moment / Lt. Surge



Today's Pokémon Journal feature: *LT. SURGE and MAGNETON*







Interview spot!
PJ: According to you, what does it take to win?
LS: I call everyone who loses to me baby, baby, baby...
PJ: I see! So it's like you're *Mafia*, along with *Bluwiikoon (Bede)* and *Tofu (Viola)*, whom you've been communicating with privately, and possibly others? Would you win, then, if 50% of all living players were Mafia-aligned?


Move showcase!
*Metal Sound* - _Night action_ | _Activate by PM, naming a target_ | _Unlimited use_
The target player will be primed, exposing them to the Discharge and Expanding Force actions. No more than 1/3 of all living players can be primed at the same time.​*Discharge* - _Night action_ | _Activate by PM_ | _Unlimited use_
At the end of the night, all players who are presently primed (via Metal Sound or Fake Tears) die. For this action to be taken, you and Bluwiikoon (Bede) must both use no other actions.​*Magnet Bomb* - _Night action_ | _Activate by PM, naming a target_ | _Must pay 2 Badges to use_
At the end of the night, the target player dies. The activation and effect of this action cannot be prevented by any other powers in the game (including healing), and its target also cannot be changed by interference from other powers. This action can be taken alongside others.​

Badge feature!
On the phase after your death, you distribute Thunder Badges. You can choose one of the following options:
-Give 1 Thunder Badge to each mafia-aligned player
-Give 2 Thunder Badges to one player of your choice
If you do not choose during the phase after your death, your badges will be distributed randomly instead.





Spoiler: Mr. Ultracool / Meowth



Today's Pokémon Journal feature: *MEOWTH and TOGEPI*







Interview spot!
PJ: According to you, what does it take to win?
M: Shhh! I'm trying to find this pesky little Togepi, meow...
PJ: I see! So it's like you're *Town*? Would you win, then, if all scum players were dead?


Move showcase!
*Where Did It Go?* - _Night action_ | _Activate by PM, naming a target_ | _Unlimited use_
At the end of the night, you discover the identity of any players who also targeted your target player.​*Did It Snatch The Remote?* - _Nighttime power_ | _Activate by PM_ | _Must pay 1 Badge to use_
Modifies the Where Did It Go? action, such that you also discover the function of the night actions used on your target player. For this purpose, the function of other night actions will be classified as Killing, Informative, Healing, Disruptive, Additive, or Other, and a single given action may potentially span multiple categories. If you are observing multiple night actions, you are not informed of which player took which type of action.​

Badge feature!
On the phase after your death, you distribute Earth Badges. You can choose one of the following options:
-Give 1 Earth Badge to one player of your choice
If you do not choose during the phase after your death, your badges will be distributed randomly instead.





Spoiler: Myuma/Mistyx / Burgh



Today's Pokémon Journal feature: *BURGH and LEAVANNY*







Interview spot!
PJ: According to you, what does it take to win?
B: If the battle brings out the beauty in Bug-type Pokémon, it will be a scene that makes my heart flutter, win or lose.
PJ: I see! So it's like you're *Town*? Would you win, then, if all scum players were dead?


Move showcase!
*Canvas of Expression* - _Night action_ | _Activate by PM, naming a target_ | _Unlimited use_
The target player gains the ability to write a message that will be displayed on the mod post if they die. They may only write this message during the immediate Day or Night after receiving this power, although the message will still be displayed if they die after that time. If you target a player you've already previously targeted, they may write a new message.​*Art Criticism* - _Night action_ | _Activate by PM, naming a target_ | _Must pay 3 Badges to use_
The target of this action must be a dead player who, as a result of your Canvas of Expression action, had a message displayed on a mod post. At the end of the night, you discover the target player's role PM and a list of who they targeted with night actions, who targeted them with night actions, and on which nights these targetings have occoured.​

Badge feature!
On the phase after your death, you distribute Insect Badges. You can choose one of the following options:
-Give 1 Insect Badge to two players of your choice
-Give 2 Insect Badges to one player of your choice
If you do not choose during the phase after your death, your badges will be distributed randomly instead.





Spoiler: Vipera Magnifica / Juan



Today's Pokémon Journal feature: *JUAN and LUVDISC*







Interview spot!
PJ: According to you, what does it take to win?
J: You are somewhat lacking in elegance. Perhaps I should make you a loan of my outfit? ... Hahaha, I merely jest!
PJ: I see! So it's like you're *Town*? Would you win, then, if all scum players were dead?


Move showcase!
*Attract* - _Night action_ | _Activate by PM, naming a target_ | _Unlimited use_
During this night, any other night actions that target the player you've targeted will be redirected to target you instead.​*Two-Timing* - _Nighttime power_ | _Activate by PM, naming a target_ | _Must pay 2 Badges to use_
Instead of yourself, night actions redirected by Attract will be redirected to the player you target with this effect.​

Badge feature!
On the phase after your death, you distribute Rain Badges. You can choose one of the following options:
-Give 1 Rain Badge to two players of your choice
-Give 2 Rain Badges to one player of your choice
If you do not choose during the phase after your death, your badges will be distributed randomly instead.





Spoiler: Stryke / Marlon



Today's Pokémon Journal feature: *MARLON and MANTINE*







Interview spot!
PJ: According to you, what does it take to win?
M: When the ocean's your home, you don't worry about things like that. 'Cause the ocean accepts all rivers!
PJ: I see! So it's like you're *Town*? Would you win, then, if all scum players were dead?


Move showcase!
*Team Plasma's Not Botherin' Me* - _???_ | _???_ | _???_
This power will only become known and available to you when you are dead.​*Not Going Around Decidin' They're Bad* - _???_ | _???_ | _???_
This power will only become known and available to you when you are dead.​

Badge feature!
On the phase after your death, you distribute Wave Badges. You can choose one of the following options:
-Give 1 Wave Badge to two players of your choice
-Give 2 Wave Badges to one player of your choice
If you do not choose during the phase after your death, your badges will be distributed randomly instead.





Spoiler: Stryke's secret post-death powers



*Haze* - _Night action_ | _Activate by PM, naming a target_ | _Unlimited use_
This power can be used by the player while dead, and only while dead. The target player is no longer primed, preventing them from dying as a result of a power that kills primed players.​*I've Got To Help Out* - _Night or day action_ | _Activate by PM_ | _Must pay 2 Badges to use_
This power can be used by the player while dead, and only while dead. At the end of the phase, you discover which players are currently primed. This action can be taken alongside others.​


​


Spoiler: Tofu / Viola



Today's Pokémon Journal feature: *VIOLA and VIVILLON*







Interview spot!
PJ: According to you, what does it take to win?
V: Even as a Marchioness, I'm still always looking for the perfect shot. And the quickest way to the perfect shot is by capturing the perfect win!
PJ: I see! So it's like you're *Mafia*, along with *Bluwiikoon (Bede)* and *Zero Moment (Lt. Surge)*, whom you've been communicating with privately, and possibly others? Would you win, then, if 50% of all living players were Mafia-aligned?


Move showcase!
*Photographic Record* - _Nighttime or daytime power_ | _Automatically activates when conditions are met_ | _Only one use per game_
At the end of a phase when a mafia-aligned player has died: replace this power with that player's powers. You retain all the private communication permissions you currently have, instead of gaining or losing them according to what the dead player had.​*Colorful Scatter* - _Nighttime or daytime power_ | _Automatically activates when conditions are met_ | _Only one use per game_
At the end of a phase where you have died, and the Photographic Record power was not activated beforehand: you may freely distribute any badges you had, alongside the ones you normally distribute upon death.​

Badge feature!
On the phase after your death, you distribute Bug Badges. You can choose one of the following options:
-Give 1 Bug Badge to each mafia-aligned player
-Give 2 Bug Badges to one player of your choice
If you do not choose during the phase after your death, your badges will be distributed randomly instead.





Spoiler: Negrek / Sabrina



Today's Pokémon Journal feature: *SABRINA and ALAKAZAM*







Interview spot!
PJ: According to you, what does it take to win?
S: I don’t enjoy battling, but it’s my duty as a Gym Leader to confer Badges on anyone who has proven him- or herself worthy.
PJ: I see! So it's like you're *Town*? Would you win, then, if all scum players were dead?


Move showcase!
*Miracle Eye* - _Night action_ | _Activate by PM, naming a target_ | _Can only be used before you've taken any other night actions, or if your latest night action was Disable_
At the end of the night, you discover the target player's alignment.​*Psyshock* - _Night action_ | _Activate by PM, naming a target_ | _Can only be used if your latest night action was Miracle Eye_
At the end of the night, the target player dies.​*Reflect* - _Night action_ | _Activate by PM, naming a target_ | _Can only be used if your latest night action was Psyshock_
The target player will not die as a result of other powers during this night.​*Disable* - _Night action_ | _Activate by PM, naming a target_ | _Can only be used if your latest night action was Reflect_
The target player's night actions will not activate during this night.​*Spoon Shuffle* - _Nighttime power_ | _Activate by PM_ | _Must pay 3 Badges to use_
During this night, you may use one of your night actions, ignoring the use restrictions.​

Badge feature!
On the phase after your death, you distribute Marsh Badges. You can choose one of the following options:
-Give 1 Marsh Badge to one player of your choice
If you do not choose during the phase after your death, your badges will be distributed randomly instead.





Spoiler: kokorico / Falkner



Today's Pokémon Journal feature: *FALKNER and PIDGEOTTO*







Interview spot!
PJ: According to you, what does it take to win?
F: My dad told me something when I was a kid. He said "Falkner, bird Pokémon don't just fly with their wings, they soar through the sky because that's what they want to do with all their heart." That's just like my dad.
PJ: I see! So it's like you're *Town*? Would you win, then, if all scum players were dead?


Move showcase!
*Mirror Move* - _Night or day action_ | _Activate by PM_ | _Must pay 1 Badge to use_
You discover the role PM of the player who originally gave out the Badge you spent to activate this power. Additionally, during this phase and the next, you may activate powers from that player's PM. If you activate powers this way that require paying a Badge cost, you must pay that cost with your own badges, but you can pay 1 Badge less than the given cost.


Badge feature!
On the phase after your death, you distribute Zephyr Badges. You can choose one of the following options:
-Give 1 Zephyr Badge to two players of your choice
-Give 2 Zephyr Badges to one player of your choice
If you do not choose during the phase after your death, your badges will be distributed randomly instead.





Spoiler: Zori / Jasmine



Today's Pokémon Journal feature: *JASMINE and AMPHAROS*







Interview spot!
PJ: According to you, what does it take to win?
J: I can't leave Amphy unattended... ...May I ask you to get some medicine for me? Please?
PJ: I see! So it's like you're *Self-aligned*? Would you win, then, if the conditions named below are fulfilled?


Move showcase!
*Secret Treatment* - _Special win condition_
When you die, or when the game ends, you win (alongside any other winning factions) if one the following is true:
-You have an even number of Badges, and you were not targeted by a night action in the latest Night phase
-You have an odd number of Badges, and you were targeted by a night action in the latest Night phase​*Accidental Shock* - _Day action_ | _Activate by PM, designating a player_ | _Must pay 1 Badge to use_
The designated player dies as soon as the action is processed.​

Badge feature!
You do not distribute Badges when you die.





Spoiler: bruh moment / Tate & Liza



Today's Pokémon Journal feature: *TATE & LIZA and SOLROCK & LUNATONE*







Interview spot!
PJ: According to you, what does it take to win?
T: We don't need to talk because...
L: ...we can each tell...
T: ...what the other is thinking...
L: ...all in our minds!
PJ: I see! So it's like you're *Twin-* er, I mean, *Town*? Would you win, then, if all scum players were dead?


Move showcase!
*Light Screen* - _Day action_ | _Activate by PM_ | _Only one use per game_
At the end of this day, if the player that would be lynched is not Mafia-aligned: no players will be lynched.
*Trick Room* - _Day action_ | _Activate by PM, designating a player_ | _Only one use per game_
At the end of this day, if no players would be lynched: the player you designated is lynched instead.
*Hypnosis* - _Day action_ | _Activate by PM, designating a player_ | _Must pay 2 badges to use; only one use per game_
At the end of this day, the player you designated is lynched instead, regardless of the poll results.


Badge feature!
On the phase after your death, you distribute Mind Badges. You can choose one of the following options:
-Give 1 Mind Badge to one player of your choice
If you do not choose during the phase after your death, your badges will be distributed randomly instead.





Spoiler: Hydreigon25 / Volkner



Today's Pokémon Journal feature: *VOLKNER and RAICHU*







Interview spot!
PJ: According to you, what does it take to win?
V: Winning makes me happy, and losing leaves me angry... That's no great revelation, but it's what makes me stronger.
PJ: I see! So it's like you're *Town*? Would you win, then, if all scum players were dead?


Move showcase!
*Static* - _Nighttime power_ | _Always automatically active_ | _Unlimited use_
Each time a player targets you with a night action, that player cannot take actions or activate powers in the next day phase and the next night phase.​*Reversal* - _Nighttime power_ | _Activate by PM_ | _Must pay 2 Badges to use_
During this night, instead of the Static effect, each player that targets you with a night action dies at the end of the night.​

Badge feature!
On the phase after your death, you distribute Beacon Badges. You can choose one of the following options:
-Give 1 Beacon Badge to one player of your choice
If you do not choose during the phase after your death, your badges will be distributed randomly instead.





Spoiler: JackPK / Brycen



Today's Pokémon Journal feature: *BRYCEN and CGFX SUIT*





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Interview spot!
PJ: According to you, what does it take to win?
B: No matter how many battles I fight, I don't know what strength is.
PJ: I see! So it's like you're *Town*? Would you win, then, if all scum players were dead?


Move showcase!
*Full Metal Scanner* - _Night action_ | _Activate by PM, naming two targets_ | _Unlimited use_
At the end of the night, the two players you targeted swap their stock of Badges with each other, and you discover how many Badges changed hands as a result of this action.​*Brycen-Man's Great Heist* - _Night action_ | _Activate by PM, naming a target and designating any number of other players_ | _Must pay 1 Badge to use_
The target of this action must be a dead player, and the designated players must be alive. At the end of the night, the target player's Badges are given out to the designated players, in order. If the target player had more Badges than the amount of players you designated, additional Badges will be given out to the designated players, still in order.​

Badge feature!
On the phase after your death, you distribute Freeze Badges. You can choose one of the following options:
-Give 1 Freeze Badge to three players of your choice
-Give 2 Freeze Badges to one player of your choice, and 1 Freeze Badge to another player of your choice
-Give 3 Freeze Badges to one player of your choice
If you do not choose during the phase after your death, your badges will be distributed randomly instead.





Spoiler: Ysabel / Nanu



Today's Pokémon Journal feature: *NANU and SABLEYE*







Interview spot!
PJ: According to you, what does it take to win?
N: You sure you've thought this through? You'd better be ready if you're thinking of coming in here.
PJ: I see! So it's like you're *Mafia*, and you can't communicate privately with the others, but you know they're *Bluwiikoon (Bede)*, *Zero Moment (Lt. Surge)* and *Tofu (Viola)*? Would you win, then, if 50% of all living players were Mafia-aligned?


Move showcase!
*Detect* - _Night action_ | _Activate by PM_ | _Cannot be used on consecutive nights_
During a night when this action was taken, Mafia-aligned players will not die. You cannot use this power and Quash on the same night.​*Quash* - _Night action_ | _Activate by PM_ | _Must pay 1 Badge or more to use; only one use per game_
During the day after a night when this action was taken, Mafia-aligned players will not die, even if they are lynched. The Badge cost of this action increases by 1 at the end of every second night. You cannot use this power and Detect on the same night.​

Badge feature! ... oh, wait. sorry
On the phase after your death, you distribute Ula'ula Stamps (equivalent to Badges). You can choose one of the following options:
-Give 1 Ula'ula Stamp to each mafia-aligned player
-Give 2 Ula'ula Stamps to one player of your choice
If you do not choose during the phase after your death, your badges will be distributed randomly instead.






now, besides all of those, there's one more I'd like to point to. y'see, around a week before we actually got started, as I was touching up the role PMs, I started to realize both that I felt rusty writing mafia flavor, and that I was struggling to make the PMs read clearly without having fitted them to flavor yet. so, to kill two birds in one stone, I took a sample of tentatively-in players, rolled roles for them, and wrote those PMs. now, why this backstage delve? it is, of course, so we can behold the greatest role PM that never was put into the actual game.


Spoiler



Today's Pokémon Journal feature: *FALKNER and PIDGEY*


Interview spot!
PJ: According to you, what does it take to win?
F: People say you can clip Flying-type Pokémon's wings with a jolt of electricity... I won't allow such insults to bird Pokémon!
PJ: I see! So it's like you're *Town*? Would you win, then, if all scum players were dead?


Move showcase!
*Heard You Talk Shit About Birds* - _Day action_ | _Activate by PM, designating a player_ | _Only one use per game; at least 3 players must be alive when this is used_
For the rest of the current Day phase (plus a brief time extension): you and the designated players may not cast lynch votes; other players can only vote to lynch you or the designated player; other players can only post to cast votes.​*What Was That About Geodude* - _Daytime power_ | _Activate by PM, designating one or more players_ | _Must pay 1 or more Badges to use_
You may designate additional players with Heard You Talk Shit About Birds, up to the amount of badges you've paid to activate this power. You must not designate at least one living player.​

Badge feature!
On the phase after your death, you distribute Zephyr Badges. You can choose one of the following options:
-Give 1 Zephyr Badge to three players of your choice
-Give 2 Zephyr Badges to one player of your choice, and 1 Zephyr Badge to another player of your choice
-Give 3 Zephyr Badges to one player of your choice
If you do not choose during the phase after your death, your badges will be distributed randomly instead.


----------



## Bluwiikoon

Worth noting that the thing about Jasmine in my role PM was a typo, and we were made aware that it was a mistake. ^^


----------



## M&F

Bluwiikoon said:


> Worth noting that the thing about Jasmine in my role PM was a typo, and we were made aware that it was a mistake. ^^


and clearly, I forgot to iron it out of this final post, so that's a second mistake-


----------



## M&F

speaking of mistakes, smh, I conked the image on JackPK's PM for this. it's only one of the best ones of the batch!



Spoiler: for posterity


----------



## Mawile

good game everyone!! still can't believe i fell for ysabel's fake terrorist thing though lmao


----------



## Mawile

oh yeah also i died with ~6 badges in my possession lol


----------



## Ys_

Oh, wow. Nvm great job mewtini and Skylar for correctly lynching Tofu even though  practically everyone thought she was town


----------



## Ys_

And thanks for hosting MF! That was a really cool game


----------



## Negrek

Good game! A lot of fun to play in an MFia again. I could have played this one better, but what can I say, I'm rusty.

Super wish I'd figured out I could use a badge power AND a non-badge power in the same night before dying and seeing that happening in the action logs, sigh.


----------



## mewtini

Ysabel said:


> fwiw I think the biggest reason you died was because bm had a red check on you. At least that's the conclusion I came to


lol, we did not.

thanks for hosting, mf! the setup was so cool, too bad that we didn’t get to use any of our powers ...


----------



## Ys_

mewtini said:


> lol, we did not.


Yeah. I read the pms and your power was actually a bit convoluted so wow. ^^


----------



## Ys_

Oh, also, thanks Herbe xD


----------



## M&F

bringing the logs!



Spoiler: Night Zero log



Vipera Magnifica (Juan) uses Attract on kokorico (Falkner).
(actions that target kokorico tonight will target Vipera Magnifica instead.)

Ysabel (Nanu) uses Detect.
(mafia-aligned players will not die as a result of night actions tonight. Detect cannot be used on N1.)

Bluwiikoon (Bede) uses Fake Tears on kokorico (Falkner), but is redirected to Vipera Magnifica (Juan).
(Vipera Magnifica is primed, and will die when Expanding Force or Discharge activate.)

Zero Moment (Lt. Surge) uses Metal Sound on bruh moment (Tate & Liza).
(bruh moment is primed, and will die when Expanding Force or Discharge activate.)

rari_teh (Valerie) uses Fae Trick on Hydreigon25 (Volkner).
(Hydreigon25 will be vigged at the end of N1.)
(additionally, Hydreigon25's power passively blocks rari_teh from activating powers until the end of N1.)

Negrek (Sabrina) uses Miracle Eye on Mawile (Allister).
(Negrek discovers that Mawile is town.)

Mr. Ultracool (Meowth) uses Where Did It Go on Vipera Magnifica (Juan).
(Mr. Ultracool watches Vipera Magnifica, and discovers that he was targeted by Bluwiikoon.)

JackPK (Brycen) uses Full Metal Scanner on rari_teh (Valerie) and Zori (Jasmine).
(rari_teh's 0 badges and Zori's 0 badges are swapped. JackPK discovers that 0 badges total changed hands as a result.)





Spoiler: Day One log



Zori (Jasmine) is lynched.

Zori (Jasmine) loses.
(Zori was targeted by a night action during N0, and died with an even number of badges (zero).





Spoiler: Night One log



Vipera Magnifica (Juan) uses Attract on Bluwiikoon (Bede).
(actions that target Bluwiikoon tonight will target Vipera Magnifica instead.)

Bluwiikoon (Bede) uses Fake Tears on RedneckPhoenix (Cheren).
(RedneckPhoenix is primed, and will die when Expanding Force or Discharge activate.)
(additionally, Bluwiikoon discovers that RedneckPhoenix is mafia, even though he isn't.)

Zero Moment (Lt. Surge) uses Metal Sound on Herbe (Cilan).
(Herbe is primed, and will die when Expanding Force or Discharge activate.)

rari_teh (Valerie) tries to use Fae Trick on Negrek (Sabrina), but the effects of Static from the previous night prevent the action from activating.

Negrek (Sabrina) uses Psyshock on Herbe (Cilan).
(Negrek vigs Herbe.)

Myuma (Burgh) uses Canvas of Expression on Negrek (Sabrina).
(Negrek can write a will during D2.)

Mr. Ultracool (Meowth) uses Where Did It Go on Mr. Ultracool.
(Mr. Ultracool watches himself, and discovers that he was not targeted.)

JackPK (Brycen) uses Full Metal Scanner on RedneckPhoenix (Cheren) and Hydreigon25 (Volkner).
(RedneckPhoenix's 0 badges and Hydreigon25's 0 badges are swapped. JackPK discovers that 0 badges total changed hands as a result.)
(additionally, JackPK discovers that RedneckPhoenix is mafia, even though he isn't.)
(additionally, Hydreigon25's power passively blocks JackPK from activating powers until the end of N2.)





Spoiler: Day Two log



Herbe (Cilan) gives 1 Trio Badge to all mafia members.
Hydreigon25 (Volkner) gives 1 Beacon Badge to Ysabel (Nanu).

Negrek (Sabrina) prepares a will through the Canvas of Expression from N1.


Spoiler: Negrek's will



"Hello from Day 2! I inspected Mawile N0 and got a Town result. I am going to attempt to heal VM or Ultracool N2. MF will not tell me if this will cause a healer clash, so if one of them died under suspicious circumstances, that could be why. I am going to attempt to roleblock someone N3, but no idea who yet."



Tofu (Viola) is lynched.





Spoiler: Night Two log



Tofu (Viola) gives 2 Bug Badges to Zero Moment. By activating Colorful Scatter, Tofu also gives 1 Trio Badge to Bluwiikoon (Bede).

Vipera Magnifica (Juan) uses Attract on bruh moment (Tate & Liza).
(actions that target bruh moment tonight will target Vipera Magnifica instead.)

Negrek (Sabrina) uses Reflect on Negrek (Sabrina).
(Negrek heals herself.)

Zero Moment (Lt. Surge) uses Discharge.
(the current primed players -- Vipera Magnifica, bruh moment and RedneckPhoenix -- will die at the end of the Night.)

Ysabel (Nanu) expends a Trio Badge and a Beacon Badge to use Quash.
(mafia-aligned players will not die during D3, even if they are lynched.)

rari_teh (Valerie) uses Fae Trick on JackPK (Brycen).
(JackPK will be vigged at the end of N3.)

Myuma (Burgh) uses Canvas of Expression on Mr. Ultracool (Meowth).
(Mr. Ultracool can write a will during D2.)

Mr. Ultracool and JackPK did not send PMs. (jack was blocked anyway)





Spoiler: Day Three log



Vipera Magnifica (Juan) gives 2 Rain Badges to Bluwiikoon (Bede).
RedneckPhoenix (Cheren) gives 3 Basic Badges to Stryke (Marlon).
bruh moment (Tate & Liza) give 1 Mind Badge to rari_teh (Valerie).

Mr. Ultracool (Meowth) prepares a will through the Canvas of Expression from N2.


Spoiler: Mr. Ultracool's will











Zero Moment (Lt. Surge) is lynched, but survives, due to Quash from N2.





Spoiler: Night Three log



Negrek (Sabrina) uses Disable on Zero Moment (Lt. Surge).
(Zero Moment is roleblocked.)

Ysabel (Nanu) uses Detect.
(mafia-aligned players will not die as a result of night actions tonight. Detect cannot be used on N4.)

Bluwiikoon (Bede) uses Fake Tears on Mawile (Allister).
(Mawile is primed, and will die when Expanding Force or Discharge activate.)

Bluwiikoon (Bede) expends two Trio Badges and uses Future Sight on Negrek (Sabrina).
(Negrek will die at the end of the Night. This action will not be revealed to action-checking powers.)

Zero Moment (Lt. Surge) attempts to use Metal Sound on JackPK (Brycen), but is roleblocked by Disable.

Zero Moment (Lt. Surge) expends two Bug Badges and uses Magnet Bomb on rari_teh (Valerie).
(rari_teh will die at the end of the Night. This action could not be prevented from activating or reaching its original target.)

rari_teh (Valerie) uses Fae Trick on Zero Moment (Lt. Surge).
(Zero Moment will be vigged at the end of N4.)

Myuma (Burgh) uses Canvas of Expression on Bluwiikoon (Bede).
(Bluwiikoon can write a will during D3.)

Mr. Ultracool (Meowth) uses Where Did It Go on Bluwiikoon (Bede).
(Mr. Ultracool watches Bluwiikoon, and discovers that he was targeted by Myuma.)

JackPK (Brycen) uses Full Metal Scanner on Stryke (Marlon) and Myuma (Burgh).
(Styrke's 3 badges and Myuma's 0 badges are swapped. JackPK discovers that 3 badges total changed hands as a result.)





Spoiler: Day Four log



JackPK (Brycen) gives 2 Freeze Badges to Mawile (Allister) and 1 Freeze Badge to kokorico (Falkner).
rari_teh (Valerie) gives 2 Féerie Badges to Mawile (Allister).
Negrek (Sabrina) gives 1 Marsh Badge to Mawile (Allister).

Bluwiikoon (Bede) prepares a will through the Canvas of Expression from N3.


Spoiler: Bluwiikoon's will



_Chairman Rose... I said I'd do anything it takes to be the best trainer. No matter what it takes, I won't let you down._

Congratulations, my friends! ^^ You got me! At the time of writing this, I'm not sure if I'll be the last one remaining or not by the time I get yeeted, but you sure freakin' did it.

I'm very sorry for deceiving you all, but I hope it's been fun and entertaining. I chose Bede because I was hoping to be a healer, but, well,,,,, oops.

Special shoutouts to Zori for scumreading me on D1, koko for consistently scumreading me, and everyone who defended my foolish!plays. And remember, you gotta hydrate!

I leave my £400 watch and my purple jacket to my Gothorita. Hatterene can have my money and bank card. Tell Opal I'm sorry.



kokorico (Falkner) spends 1 Freeze Badge and uses Mirror Move.
(kokorico discovers JackPK's role PM. for D4 and N4, kokorico gained the ability to use JackPK's night actions.)

kokorico (Falkner) is lynched.





Spoiler: Night Four log



kokorico (Falkner) gives 1 Zephyr Badge to Mawile and 1 Zephyr Badge to Mr. Ultracool.

Zero Moment (Lt. Surge) uses Discharge.
(the current primed player -- Mawile -- will die at the end of the Night.)

[retroactive] Mistyx (Burgh) spends 3 Basic Badges to use Art Criticism on Negrek (Sabrina).
(Mistyx discovers Negrek's role PM, as well as all players whom she targeted, and all players who targeted her)

Mr. Ultracool spends 1 Zephyr Badge to use Where Did It Go on Mawile, and modify it with Did It Snatch The Remote.
(Mr. Ultracool watches and voyeurs Mawile, and discovers that he was not targeted.)





Spoiler: Day Five log



Mawile (Allister) gives 2 Ghost Badges to Stryke (Marlon) and 1 Ghost Badge to Myuma (Burgh).
Zero Moment (Lt. Surge) gives 2 Thunder Badges to Ysabel (Nanu).

Stryke (Marlon) is lynched.

Of the 4 players alive, 2 (Bluwiikoon and Ysabel) are mafia-aligned; therefore, mafia wins.


----------



## M&F

and my final impressions of the game--

I don't suppose I should lead with something negative, but man, this was a disappointing ending. still, this outcome might've been better than the alternative, since chasing another 2 mafiosi with no further killpower but the lynch would've taken a whopping three phases at least, and the marathon sentiment was certainly already setting in even by D4. (plus, The Thing never got to happen, so nyeeeeh-)

still, the mafia team deserves every bit of credit for this one. it's been a delightful surprise, watching how they deftly evaded suspicion! it kinda says something that all the third-party players were wiped out before a single mafiosx was. there were stumbles, someone else will point it out if I don't, but nonetheless, this has been a worthy performance by the mob. and they had the sweetest scumchat, too

it's also not for nothing that this came down to the wire, though; town may have made several mistakes, but they also managed some key plays that could have easily turned the game to their side, if just a few more things had landed in the right place.

in any case, it's been marvelous to be back on the GM's seat. many things didn't go quite as I'd expected them to, but that's usually the beauty of it; it still was a fantastic game overall. I'll be hoping to run some more mind-breaking games for you all, even if it seems we're no longer quite in the high season of Mafia that we were for a few months back there!


----------



## Novae

i am still just sitting here


----------



## M&F

Mistyx said:


> i am still just sitting here


I was honestly astonished that you accepted the replacement call tbh

sorry it ended up just being for the sake of burying the game, but, them's breaks; theorically, it could've gone differently and all,


----------



## Bluwiikoon

I definitely would have had big trouble if Ysabel didn't Quash the ZM yeet! ^^ So many things could have happened so differently!


----------



## Novae

i literally do not mind

i existed to fill a slot and nothing else tbh

not gonna count this game as a win or loss but i helped at least


----------



## Bluwiikoon

Mist Play of the Game tbh


----------



## RedneckPhoenix

game design: 100% amazing, mf was a great gm

that said, watching this game from deadchat was like being slowly exsanguinated


----------



## RedneckPhoenix

stryke in particular

you weren't "town-aligned" you were town dumbass couldn't you just say that


----------



## RedneckPhoenix

anyways. imagine getting the worst role in the game


----------



## Zero Moment

Biggest of props for Ysabel's bomb threat
I had figured out their alignment after she posted that she had gotten a trio badge


----------



## rari_teh

Bluwiikoon said:


> I definitely would have had big trouble if Ysabel didn't Quash the ZM yeet! ^^ So many things could have happened so differently!


fwiw zm surviving the lynch was the only reason i didn’t set kokorico as my last kill, so. in the end i don’t think much would play out differently lol
props to bruh for being a pair of absolute town queens and to blu for being tonally identical to his town self
i absolutely sucked this game lol. should be glad that i managed to take a mafioso down.
thanks for hosting mf!



RedneckPhoenix said:


> game design: 100% amazing, mf was a great gm
> 
> that said, watching this game from deadchat was like being slowly exsanguinated


i fully agree


----------



## Zori

Wahoo
I still have yet to win a game here
I still have yet to see D2 since TvT


----------



## Bluwiikoon

Zori said:


> Wahoo
> I still have yet to win a game here
> I still have yet to see D2 since TvT


You were the first person to suss me, so that's something!  I believe in you, Zori!!


----------



## kyeugh

bruh moment


----------



## qenya

Mawile said:


> good game everyone!! still can't believe i fell for ysabel's fake terrorist thing though lmao


Oh, big mood. I realised about five minutes after EoD that what I _should_ have done was ask _you_ to attempt to vote for Blu as well, so that there would be at least a 50% chance of yeeting someone other than me, regardless of whether or not Ysabel was faking. But hindsight is 20/20.

It seems I also drastically underestimated the level of shenanigans present in MFia. Would never have guessed the mafia nightkills were all the result of arsonists. :/

Great game, at any rate, and very well played to Blu and Ysabel! And thanks a lot for hosting, Mampers!


----------



## Hydreigon25

MampersandF said:


> bringing the logs!
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Night Zero log
> 
> 
> 
> Vipera Magnifica (Juan) uses Attract on kokorico (Falkner).
> (actions that target kokorico tonight will target Vipera Magnifica instead.)
> 
> Ysabel (Nanu) uses Detect.
> (mafia-aligned players will not die as a result of night actions tonight. Detect cannot be used on N1.)
> 
> Bluwiikoon (Bede) uses Fake Tears on kokorico (Falkner), but is redirected to Vipera Magnifica (Juan).
> (Vipera Magnifica is primed, and will die when Expanding Force or Discharge activate.)
> 
> Zero Moment (Lt. Surge) uses Metal Sound on bruh moment (Tate & Liza).
> (bruh moment is primed, and will die when Expanding Force or Discharge activate.)
> 
> rari_teh (Valerie) uses Fae Trick on Hydreigon25 (Volkner).
> (Hydreigon25 will be vigged at the end of N1.)
> (additionally, Hydreigon25's power passively blocks rari_teh from activating powers until the end of N1.)
> 
> Negrek (Sabrina) uses Miracle Eye on Mawile (Allister).
> (Negrek discovers that Mawile is town.)
> 
> Mr. Ultracool (Meowth) uses Where Did It Go on Vipera Magnifica (Juan).
> (Mr. Ultracool watches Vipera Magnifica, and discovers that he was targeted by Bluwiikoon.)
> 
> JackPK (Brycen) uses Full Metal Scanner on rari_teh (Valerie) and Zori (Jasmine).
> (rari_teh's 0 badges and Zori's 0 badges are swapped. JackPK discovers that 0 badges total changed hands as a result.)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Day One log
> 
> 
> 
> Zori (Jasmine) is lynched.
> 
> Zori (Jasmine) loses.
> (Zori was targeted by a night action during N0, and died with an even number of badges (zero).
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Night One log
> 
> 
> 
> Vipera Magnifica (Juan) uses Attract on Bluwiikoon (Bede).
> (actions that target Bluwiikoon tonight will target Vipera Magnifica instead.)
> 
> Bluwiikoon (Bede) uses Fake Tears on RedneckPhoenix (Cheren).
> (RedneckPhoenix is primed, and will die when Expanding Force or Discharge activate.)
> (additionally, Bluwiikoon discovers that RedneckPhoenix is mafia, even though he isn't.)
> 
> Zero Moment (Lt. Surge) uses Metal Sound on Herbe (Cilan).
> (Herbe is primed, and will die when Expanding Force or Discharge activate.)
> 
> rari_teh (Valerie) tries to use Fae Trick on Negrek (Sabrina), but the effects of Static from the previous night prevent the action from activating.
> 
> Negrek (Sabrina) uses Psyshock on Herbe (Cilan).
> (Negrek vigs Herbe.)
> 
> Myuma (Burgh) uses Canvas of Expression on Negrek (Sabrina).
> (Negrek can write a will during D2.)
> 
> Mr. Ultracool (Meowth) uses Where Did It Go on Mr. Ultracool.
> (Mr. Ultracool watches himself, and discovers that he was not targeted.)
> 
> JackPK (Brycen) uses Full Metal Scanner on RedneckPhoenix (Cheren) and Hydreigon25 (Volkner).
> (RedneckPhoenix's 0 badges and Hydreigon25's 0 badges are swapped. JackPK discovers that 0 badges total changed hands as a result.)
> (additionally, JackPK discovers that RedneckPhoenix is mafia, even though he isn't.)
> (additionally, Hydreigon25's power passively blocks JackPK from activating powers until the end of N2.)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Day Two log
> 
> 
> 
> Herbe (Cilan) gives 1 Trio Badge to all mafia members.
> Hydreigon25 (Volkner) gives 1 Beacon Badge to Ysabel (Nanu).





Spoiler: Day Two log



Big oops ^

​


MampersandF said:


> Negrek (Sabrina) prepares a will through the Canvas of Expression from N1.
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Negrek's will
> 
> 
> 
> "Hello from Day 2! I inspected Mawile N0 and got a Town result. I am going to attempt to heal VM or Ultracool N2. MF will not tell me if this will cause a healer clash, so if one of them died under suspicious circumstances, that could be why. I am going to attempt to roleblock someone N3, but no idea who yet."
> 
> 
> 
> Tofu (Viola) is lynched.








MampersandF said:


> Spoiler: Night Two log
> 
> 
> 
> Tofu (Viola) gives 2 Bug Badges to Zero Moment. By activating Colorful Scatter, Tofu also gives 1 Trio Badge to Bluwiikoon (Bede).
> 
> Vipera Magnifica (Juan) uses Attract on bruh moment (Tate & Liza).
> (actions that target bruh moment tonight will target Vipera Magnifica instead.)
> 
> Negrek (Sabrina) uses Reflect on Negrek (Sabrina).
> (Negrek heals herself.)
> 
> Zero Moment (Lt. Surge) uses Discharge.
> (the current primed players -- Vipera Magnifica, bruh moment and RedneckPhoenix -- will die at the end of the Night.)
> 
> Ysabel (Nanu) expends a Trio Badge and a Beacon Badge to use Quash.
> (mafia-aligned players will not die during D3, even if they are lynched.)
> 
> rari_teh (Valerie) uses Fae Trick on JackPK (Brycen).
> (JackPK will be vigged at the end of N3.)
> 
> Myuma (Burgh) uses Canvas of Expression on Mr. Ultracool (Meowth).
> (Mr. Ultracool can write a will during D2.)
> 
> Mr. Ultracool and JackPK did not send PMs. (jack was blocked anyway)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Day Three log
> 
> 
> 
> Vipera Magnifica (Juan) gives 2 Rain Badges to Bluwiikoon (Bede).
> RedneckPhoenix (Cheren) gives 3 Basic Badges to Stryke (Marlon).
> bruh moment (Tate & Liza) give 1 Mind Badge to rari_teh (Valerie).
> 
> Mr. Ultracool (Meowth) prepares a will through the Canvas of Expression from N2.
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Mr. Ultracool's will
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Zero Moment (Lt. Surge) is lynched, but survives, due to Quash from N2.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Night Three log
> 
> 
> 
> Negrek (Sabrina) uses Disable on Zero Moment (Lt. Surge).
> (Zero Moment is roleblocked.)
> 
> Ysabel (Nanu) uses Detect.
> (mafia-aligned players will not die as a result of night actions tonight. Detect cannot be used on N4.)
> 
> Bluwiikoon (Bede) uses Fake Tears on Mawile (Allister).
> (Mawile is primed, and will die when Expanding Force or Discharge activate.)
> 
> Bluwiikoon (Bede) expends two Trio Badges and uses Future Sight on Negrek (Sabrina).
> (Negrek will die at the end of the Night. This action will not be revealed to action-checking powers.)
> 
> Zero Moment (Lt. Surge) attempts to use Metal Sound on JackPK (Brycen), but is roleblocked by Disable.
> 
> Zero Moment (Lt. Surge) expends two Bug Badges and uses Magnet Bomb on rari_teh (Valerie).
> (rari_teh will die at the end of the Night. This action could not be prevented from activating or reaching its original target.)
> 
> rari_teh (Valerie) uses Fae Trick on Zero Moment (Lt. Surge).
> (Zero Moment will be vigged at the end of N4.)
> 
> Myuma (Burgh) uses Canvas of Expression on Bluwiikoon (Bede).
> (Bluwiikoon can write a will during D3.)
> 
> Mr. Ultracool (Meowth) uses Where Did It Go on Bluwiikoon (Bede).
> (Mr. Ultracool watches Bluwiikoon, and discovers that he was targeted by Myuma.)
> 
> JackPK (Brycen) uses Full Metal Scanner on Stryke (Marlon) and Myuma (Burgh).
> (Styrke's 3 badges and Myuma's 0 badges are swapped. JackPK discovers that 3 badges total changed hands as a result.)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Day Four log
> 
> 
> 
> JackPK (Brycen) gives 2 Freeze Badges to Mawile (Allister) and 1 Freeze Badge to kokorico (Falkner).
> rari_teh (Valerie) gives 2 Féerie Badges to Mawile (Allister).
> Negrek (Sabrina) gives 1 Marsh Badge to Mawile (Allister).
> 
> Bluwiikoon (Bede) prepares a will through the Canvas of Expression from N3.
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Bluwiikoon's will
> 
> 
> 
> _Chairman Rose... I said I'd do anything it takes to be the best trainer. No matter what it takes, I won't let you down._
> 
> Congratulations, my friends! ^^ You got me! At the time of writing this, I'm not sure if I'll be the last one remaining or not by the time I get yeeted, but you sure freakin' did it.
> 
> I'm very sorry for deceiving you all, but I hope it's been fun and entertaining. I chose Bede because I was hoping to be a healer, but, well,,,,, oops.
> 
> Special shoutouts to Zori for scumreading me on D1, koko for consistently scumreading me, and everyone who defended my foolish!plays. And remember, you gotta hydrate!
> 
> I leave my £400 watch and my purple jacket to my Gothorita. Hatterene can have my money and bank card. Tell Opal I'm sorry.
> 
> 
> 
> kokorico (Falkner) spends 1 Freeze Badge and uses Mirror Move.
> (kokorico discovers JackPK's role PM. for D4 and N4, kokorico gained the ability to use JackPK's night actions.)
> 
> kokorico (Falkner) is lynched.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Night Four log
> 
> 
> 
> kokorico (Falkner) gives 1 Zephyr Badge to Mawile and 1 Zephyr Badge to Mr. Ultracool.
> 
> Zero Moment (Lt. Surge) uses Discharge.
> (the current primed player -- Mawile -- will die at the end of the Night.)
> 
> [retroactive] Mistyx (Burgh) spends 3 Basic Badges to use Art Criticism on Negrek (Sabrina).
> (Mistyx discovers Negrek's role PM, as well as all players whom she targeted, and all players who targeted her)
> 
> Mr. Ultracool spends 1 Zephyr Badge to use Where Did It Go on Mawile, and modify it with Did It Snatch The Remote.
> (Mr. Ultracool watches and voyeurs Mawile, and discovers that he was not targeted.)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Day Five log
> 
> 
> 
> Mawile (Allister) gives 2 Ghost Badges to Stryke (Marlon) and 1 Ghost Badge to Myuma (Burgh).
> Zero Moment (Lt. Surge) gives 2 Thunder Badges to Ysabel (Nanu).
> 
> Stryke (Marlon) is lynched.
> 
> Of the 4 players alive, 2 (Bluwiikoon and Ysabel) are mafia-aligned; therefore, mafia wins.



Thank you @MampersandF to hosting ​


----------



## Ys_

lol ^^; at that point I wasn't really taking the game seriously anymore so I kind of just wanted a reason to be in the open.

Also I was lmaoing because all of our claims ended up really weird and all being protective..


----------



## Hydreigon25

Hydreigon25 said:


> *Hydreigon25 (Volkner) gives 1 Beacon Badge to Ysabel (Nanu).*


Big oops ^ if i hadn't assumed @Ysabel was town ( when I died ) i would probably have given it to someone else instead ​




Ysabel said:


> lol ^^; at that point I wasn't really taking the game seriously anymore so I kind of just wanted a reason to be in the open.
> 
> Also I was lmaoing because all of our claims ended up really weird and all being protective..


----------



## Hydreigon25

MampersandF said:


> Spoiler: rari_teh / Valerie
> 
> 
> 
> Today's Pokémon Journal feature: VALERIE and SYLVEON
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Interview spot!
> PJ: According to you, what does it take to win?
> V: The elusive Fairy types may appear frail as a breeze and delicate as a bloom, but they are strong.
> PJ: I see! So it's like you're Town? Would you win, then, if all scum players were dead?
> 
> 
> Move showcase!
> *Fae Trick* - Night action | Activate by PM, naming a target | Unlimited use
> At the end of the next night phase (not the current one), the target player dies.
> *Misty Terrain* - Night action | Activate by PM | Must pay 2 Badges to use
> During this night, no players will die as a direct or indirect result of actions taken in the previous night phase.
> 
> 
> Badge feature!
> On the phase after your death, you distribute Féerie Badges. You can choose one of the following options:
> -Give 1 Féerie Badge to two players of your choice
> -Give 2 Féerie Badges to one player of your choice
> If you do not choose during the phase after your death, your badges will be distributed randomly instead.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Hydreigon25 / Volkner
> 
> 
> 
> Today's Pokémon Journal feature: *VOLKNER and RAICHU*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Interview spot!
> PJ: According to you, what does it take to win?
> V: Winning makes me happy, and losing leaves me angry... That's no great revelation, but it's what makes me stronger.
> PJ: I see! So it's like you're Town? Would you win, then, if all scum players were dead?
> 
> 
> Move showcase!
> *Static* - Nighttime power | Always automatically active | Unlimited use
> Each time a player targets you with a night action, that player cannot take actions or activate powers in the next day phase and the next night phase.
> *Reversal* - Nighttime power | Activate by PM | Must pay 2 Badges to use
> During this night, instead of the Static effect, each player that targets you with a night action dies at the end of the night.
> 
> 
> Badge feature!
> On the phase after your death, you distribute Beacon Badges. You can choose one of the following options:
> -Give 1 Beacon Badge to one player of your choice
> If you do not choose during the phase after your death, your badges will be distributed randomly instead.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> @rari_teh if you used Misty Terrain ^ i could have used my badge ability for town to get the win


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## RedneckPhoenix

...i sincerely do not see the synergy in this strat


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## Hydreigon25

rari_teh / Valerie]Today's Pokémon Journal feature: VALERIE and SYLVEON









Move showcase!
*Fae Trick* - Night action | Activate by PM, naming a target | Unlimited use
At the end of the next night phase (not the current one), the target player dies.
*Misty Terrain* - Night action | Activate by PM | Must pay 2 Badges to use
During this night, no players will die as a direct or indirect result of actions taken in the previous night phase.




 Hydreigon25 / Volkner]Today's Pokémon Journal feature: *VOLKNER and RAICHU*








Move showcase!
*Static* - Nighttime power | Always automatically active | Unlimited use
Each time a player targets you with a night action, that player cannot take actions or activate powers in the next day phase and the next night phase.

*Reversal* - Nighttime power | Activate by PM | Must pay 2 Badges to use
During this night, instead of the Static effect, each player that targets you with a night action dies at the end of the night.




@rari_teh if you used Misty Terrain ^ i could have used my badge ability for town to get the win[/QUOTE]
[/QUOTE]


n0 you used fae trick
n1 i die, however if you received 2 badges you use Misty Terrain to revive me so the following could happen 

when I received 2 badges, i could have tried and bait Blu, Tofu, Ysabel, & ZM all into visiting me ( after i received 2 badges ) then town would win


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## Eifie

rari literally could not use Misty Terrain the next night anyway due to the effects of Static

rip


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## RedneckPhoenix

also i doubt the entire mafia would visit you in one night.


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## Ys_

None of my actions were visiting ones anyway.. ^^'


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## Hydreigon25

*Reversal* - Nighttime power | Activate by PM | Must pay 2 Badges to use
During this night, instead of the Static effect, each player that targets you with a night action dies at the end of the night.

so if the mafia/wolfs were to target me when I have 2 badges it would be a town win


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## Ys_

Yeah, probably, actually. With Blu or ZM gone sooner mafia would have been a lot weaker for sure. But what people are saying is that not all mafia would have visited you at once. So it could have been a town victory, just not an instant one.


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## Hydreigon25

these were some hints ( the stuff under-lined )



Hydreigon25 said:


> _Town_ shouldn't waste any actions on me for reasons i can't currently say why, due to it being early. However it will help _town_





Hydreigon25 said:


> i meant _it could help Town_ i prefer not to reveal it yet though


basically I was referring to my badge power in these posts but I didn't want to actually reveal what my badge power was at the time


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## Hydreigon25

Ysabel said:


> Yeah, probably, actually. With Blu or ZM gone sooner mafia would have been a lot weaker for sure. But what people are saying is that not all mafia would have visited you at once. So it could have been a town victory, just not an instant one.


if only I could have survived at least until day 3, it would have been more interesting


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## RedneckPhoenix

dunno how "it could help town" translates to "killing power"


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## RedneckPhoenix

i'm still just utterly flabbergasted at your huge-ass post trying to tunnel me


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## Hydreigon25

RedneckPhoenix said:


> dunno how "it could help town" translates to "killing power"


1+1 = 2

or in other words Mafia tries to use anything on me ( example:
Fake Tears, Expanding Force, Metal Sound, Discharge )


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## Hydreigon25

Hydreigon25 said:


> RedneckPhoenix said:
> 
> 
> 
> dunno how "it could help town" translates to "killing power"
> 
> 
> 
> 1+1 = 2
> 
> or in other words
> 
> 1. Mafia tries to use anything on me ( example:
> Fake Tears, Expanding Force, Metal Sound, Discharge )
> +
> 1. i receive 2 badges
> =
> 2. i use 2 badges to activate Reversal when Mafia tries to use any or all of the following on me ( example:
> Fake Tears, Expanding Force, Metal Sound, Discharge ) & that means at least 2 mafia would be taken out in 1 night leaving only tofu/ysabel
Click to expand...


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## Ys_

... Meanwhile I'm feeling sad for Stryke xD


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## RedneckPhoenix

that's not even the question i asked hydrei but ok


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## Hydreigon25

RedneckPhoenix said:


> that's not even the question i asked hydrei but ok


- i receive 2 badges​
- Mafia tries to use anything on me ( example:
Fake Tears, Expanding Force, Metal Sound, Discharge )

- i use 2 badges to activate Reversal & i bait Mafia to use any or all of the following on me ( example:
Fake Tears, Expanding Force, Metal Sound, Discharge ) & that means 2 mafia blu/ZM would be killed in 1 night leaving only tofu/ysabel


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## Herbe

wowie guys thanks for the game! glad my actions managed to clue the mafia in :3
herbe wins!!!!!


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## Hydreigon25

Herbe said:


> View attachment 779


This post ^ has me


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