# Avatar



## opaltiger

I was skeptical. There was hype. The film that will change cinema forever! Well, goddammit, apparently this is the year I should stop being skeptical about films.

Okay, so maybe I exaggerate. The story is a well done allegory for much of what is wrong with the world at the moment, but maybe that doesn't make it a film that will change cinema forever. But technologically? The scenery is beautiful. I have no clue what was CGI and what was live action (beyond the really really obvious things, I mean). The combination of the two was seamless. A while ago I remember someone saying that soon the Best Animated Picture category will be irrelevant, because the boundary between "animated" and "live action" will slowly disappear. Well, it's certainly started.

Tomorrow I am going to go see it in 3D. Apparently it is the first film to do 3D properly. We shall see.

In short: go see this film. It might be that I avoided most of the hype and had only a very vague idea of what it was about going in, but my expectations were vastly exceeded.


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## spaekle

I've wanted to see this ever since I saw the trailer, mostly because I think the scenery and the Na'vi look _awesome_. Hope I can get to the theater over winter break.


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## Blastoise Fortooate

do want get

The theaters will be _packed_ though.


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## Effigy of the Forgotten

I really want to see this film, it looks fantastic and most of James Cameron's stuff tends not to disappoint so I'm sure will have a good time. Probs will go either this Wednesday or next (am poor atm so have to do Orange Wednesdays :P). Can't wait!


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## Blaziking the God General

I'm still skeptical about this one, even though many people say that it's awesome. I'll probably wait a while before I consider seeing it, maybe wait for someone I know well to go see it first.


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## Harlequin

Man, I really want to see this but no one will go with me. Amber wants to see New Moon, Emily wants to see something else, none of the boys are interested... :( Maybe I'll force Jon and Greta to go to the cinema with me when we meet up tomorrow.

Avatarrrrr. :(


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## Diz

3D. Marines. 10 feet tall. Blue skinned Aliens. Riding Dinosaurs. Shooting and blowing stuff up.

I came


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## Butterfree

I want to see it. Thankfully Shadey is all for it, so once I'm back from Germany we can go. <3


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## goldenquagsire

aw nuts, the London Imax is fully booked until January 9th. :(

I'll probably go see it somewhere else but maaaan that sucks.


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## Zeph

Saw it with school yesterday. It was really quite awesome! I'd suggest it to anyone. I actually sort of liked how it touched on moral issues of human selfishness and all that. Agreed, the CGI was absolutely fantastic... And the plot was epic too. Only saw it in 2D though.


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## Fireworks

In my opinion this was the best film of 2009.

Have a nice day.


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## Involuntary Twitch

See, like, I'm all for dragons and sci-fi and pro-environmental messages and blue space furries but... it seems so cliche D: (Of course, this is coming from a girl that lists Transformers: Revenge of the Fallen on her top movies of the year, so...)

I haven't seen it yet though. I know I'll enjoy it, so why am I complaining? xD


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## Harlequin

So, like. Avatar kind of inspired me to write my sci-fi novel. It's actually kind of Avatarish :( I dislike that fact but oh well, since I haven't actually seen Avatar it's not exactly copying it.

except for the part where my aliens ride dinosaurs. because they did that anyway, way befor Avatar.


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## opaltiger

> See, like, I'm all for dragons and sci-fi and pro-environmental messages and blue space furries but... it seems so cliche D: (Of course, this is coming from a girl that lists Transformers: Revenge of the Fallen on her top movies of the year, so...)


Two things:

The great thing about Avatar is that yeah, the story seems relatively cliched, but it still works somehow. I would argue that a lot of it is subverted, too. Also it's not so much pro-environmental as anti-imperialism.

_Transformers 2?_ ahhhhhhh

What made me really happy, though is that it's (reasonably) consistent scientifically. 



Spoiler



You have giant flying creatures, but that's okay, because we've established that gravity is weaker on Pandora. You have six-limbed animals, but that's okay, because they're _all_ six limbed, except for the Na'vi, but even there you're shown an evolutionary intermediate with two forelimbs beginning to fuse. It is quite refreshing. (okay, yes, floating mountains. Shut up, that was way too cool to take out.)





> except for the part where my aliens ride dinosaurs.


that's okay, Dinotopia did that decades ago. Actually that whole sequence in the film was very reminiscent of Dinotopia. It made me nostalgic.


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## Minish

opaltiger said:


> that's okay, Dinotopia did that decades ago. Actually that whole sequence in the film was very reminiscent of Dinotopia. It made me nostalgic.


Oh man, I loved Dinotopia.

I plan on seeing this at some point, everyone's saying it's really awesome. I don't tend to go see films that I don't have a lot of prior knowledge on so it's not just a waste of money, but this may be an exception. :D


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## Harlequin

opaltiger said:


> Two things:
> 
> The great thing about Avatar is that yeah, the story seems relatively cliched, but it still works somehow. I would argue that a lot of it is subverted, too. Also it's not so much pro-environmental as anti-imperialism.
> 
> _Transformers 2?_ ahhhhhhh
> 
> What made me really happy, though is that it's (reasonably) consistent scientifically.
> 
> that's okay, Dinotopia did that decades ago. Actually that whole sequence in the film was very reminiscent of Dinotopia. It made me nostalgic.


Good to know about the consistency. I hate when there's like ONE species of six-limbed creature and it's kind of like "...D:" etc.

Also hooray my dinosaur riding aliens kind of aren't a rip off.

(I like Dinotopia. :( The books were cool and even if the TV series kind of sucked it was cool too)


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## Icalasari

I saw it on Friday, in 3D. It was so realistic looking

;.; I want to be put into a giant cat man body by a tree. It sounds ridiculous, but they pulled the whole thing off perfectly when they did that to the main character (I keep on forgetting his name)

Also, the whole war was sweet as well


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## opaltiger

> I don't tend to go see films that I don't have a lot of prior knowledge on so it's not just a waste of money, but this may be an exception. :D


I would recommend seeing it before you _get_ prior knowledge.


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## hopeandjoy

It was terrible. The only thing I can give it was that it was pretty. The plot was stupid, the hero was an idiot, the moral was Anvilicious to the extreme, I almost fell asleep in the first half of the movie, it was way too long, and I could see everything coming from a mile away.


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## Icalasari

Ketsu said:


> It was terrible. The only thing I can give it was that it was pretty. The plot was stupid, the hero was an idiot, the moral was Anvilicious to the extreme, I almost fell asleep in the first half of the movie, it was way too long, and I could see everything coming from a mile away.


Well, people do say that it is one of those movies you either love or hate...


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## Crazy Linoone

Please don't tell me that I'm the only one who thought Avatar was going to be about Avatar: the Last Airbender until the previews came out. 

I heard that the CGI is pretty good. But I'm really skeptical about the plot though; there's so much hype it's hard not to be. 

I might go watch it sometime. If the tickets don't sell out.


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## Ruby

I saw it in 3D on the biggest screen in Britain and afterwards my eyes ached.  It had the most amazing graphics I have seen, and I chime with opal that somehow the cliches and absurdities never became unbearable.  But twenty years ago this same man wrote and directed Terminator 1 and 2 and also Aliens, a film which deeply impressed itself on to Avatar, in the machines, the characters, the plot.  He is not near to matching any of his best old films.


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## Zora of Termina

Crazy Linoone said:


> Please don't tell me that I'm the only one who thought Avatar was going to be about Avatar: the Last Airbender until the previews came out.


You're not. I thought the same thing.

Honestly? I dunno what to expect from this. Might go see it sometime when I have time, but... I dunno.


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## hopeandjoy

It seems that Doug Walker (aka That Guy With the Glasses/Chester A. Bum/The Nostalgia Critic) shares my views on the movie.

And it is hilarious.


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## Ramsie

I'm not sure if I want to see it or not. It looks good, but I'm not sure I want to spend any money. Boyfriend saw it Sunday and said it was amazing and several other people have said the same thing. A group of people I know from school want to see it and get sushi afterward, but again I'm not sure if I want to see it.


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## spaekle

Woo, I'm hopefully going to see it (and Sherlock Holmes, yay movie marathon) with friends tomorrow. And we get it in 3D too!


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## Vladimir Putin's LJ

Spaekle Oddberry said:


> and Sherlock Holmes,


NO DON'T IT IS LITERARY RAPE cough cough don't know how that came out, sorry

Yeah, the plot was pretty shitty but I don't think it made the movie as a whole bad. It was amazing to watch, that's for sure, and it's good that they're trying to make films with more subtle environmental messages (*cough*).
I walked around in freezing cold weather and snow up the middle of my shins and it was worth it, so I don't regret watching it.


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## Momoharu

Zomg I thought this movie was damn amazing, totally worth the watch.


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## spaekle

It was _really amazing_ as far as visuals go, and had awesome forests and robots and aliens and a really epic fight scene and all sorts of elements that make movies cool! But, yeah, the plot really wasn't the greatest thing ever. It was a _nice_ story, but it wasn't a particularly original one. The cast consisted more or less entirely of stock character types too.

So, yeah; great visuals, plot and characters were _okay_ but nothing particularly memorable there. I _want_ one of those spinny helicopter lizard things. 

Bonus crappy review: Sherlock Holmes was a fun way to pass the time, I guess. Like one of those action movies you go to see because it has a hot actor in it, and it's entertaining while you're there, but not exactly something you'd buy on DVD. :v


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## opaltiger

> The cast consisted more or less entirely of stock character types too.


While this is true I feel the actors deserve a lot of credit. Sam Worthington could have easily ruined the movie by being too much of a typical hero type and Zoe Saldana's performance was phenomenal.


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## glitchedgamer

This is what I heard:

Effects: AMAZING.

Story: Meh, nothing too memorable.

Still dying to see it, though.


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## Zuu

You guys sound like a bunch of parrots.

It looked great visually, yeah - I had a bit of trouble distinguishing between the CGI and the meatspace stuff. 

But goddamn it if it wasn't a good story. "oh no there are literary tropes in this movie! FUCK THIS SHIT COULD'VE BEEN BETTER" dude if it was way out there and alien everyone would've complained even worse. jesus christ.

anyway 9/10


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## Vladimir Putin's LJ

I just don't think it has a very good story because you could see it coming from a mile off is all. It's been done a million times, but it's a working formula.


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## Tarvos

i saw it coming from _another planet_


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## goldenquagsire

so I saw it today

jesus christ visually it's like the most amazing thing ever. flying continents? truly alien ecology? lots of explosions? wonderful~

but the plot is rather painful. hippie elves Na'vi, Gaia Hypothesis (this is one of my literary pet peeves - whenever it's used it ends up being saccharine). and I dearly hope that I misheard, but did they seriously use the term "Unobtainium" without any irony?

on the other hand it was kinda cool to see the alien invasion trope being reversed somewhat. also, props for at least making an effort to avoid English-Speaking Aliens.

fun thing is, /m/ (one of those bits of 4chan that isn't totally shit) currently hates Avatar because the guys with mechs lose.


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## opaltiger

> also, props for at least making an effort to avoid English-Speaking Aliens.


I should think inventing a language goes beyond mere "making an effort".


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## Tailsy

My impression of the entire thing was something like "zzzzzz".

So. _Boring_.


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## Butterfree

Actually, not all the animals are six-limbed - I was specifically watching for that and it generally seemed reasonably evenly split between four-limbed and six-limbed creatures, leading me to believe that two different body plans evolved on Pandora, one four-limbed and one six-limbed, and they each branched into various different species. Which of course is still more scientifically consistent than some random _one_ species being six-limbed and all the others four-limbed.

Anyway, I loved it. It was ridiculously pretty, of course, but the story, while very predictable, held my attention throughout, and though the Gaia hypothesis is generally rather painful, I think it worked about as well as it possibly could here; it was established scientifically as literally involving a neural network connecting all the plants on the planet as well as the different creatures being capable of connecting their nerves physically with those of other creatures. Of course, then it had to go and make the scientist go all "Eywa is real and I'm with her!" and having a bunch of creatures that were not neurally connected join into the fight, but for most of it it actually worked, if just barely, which I found pretty cool.

Something random I really loved for some reason: when Neytiri was cradling Jake's real body in her arms and he looked so utterly tiny and fragile and vulnerable next to her. I don't even know why, but it really stuck with me.

But yeah, the predictability was annoying. I see the army general in his mecha, and I think, "He's going to be using that in the final showdown, isn't he?" Neytiri explains about Turok Macto, and I think, "Oh, dear, Jake's going to manage to ride one, somehow." They bring in the ritual to move the "soul" between bodies, and I think, "Yeah, Jake's going to have them move him to his avatar body at the end." The chopper pilot comes into the prison and I think, "She's going to free them," and later in the final battle, "She's probably going to die." And of course all of it comes true. Admittedly it did successfully make me forget that the real bodies were there, so it took me by surprise when the general suddenly turned away from the avatars and went to kill Jake the easy way, but otherwise most every turn of the plot could be seen from orbit.

That said, it doesn't really matter, because the story is still captivating enough so as not to be boring in spite of being predictable, and it's so pretty that it could have no story at all and it would still be a joy to watch, so.


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## goldenquagsire

opaltiger said:


> I should think inventing a language goes beyond mere "making an effort".


well yes but the aliens are just too good at English. the humans have only been on Pandora a short time, they had one language school that closed down, and suddenly a good number of the Na'vi are fluent with not much of an accent and an almost perfect grasp of grammar? unless they're all geniuses, this seems a little far-fetched.


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## Slartibartfast

...I have to go see this.

From all the previews, etc. that I've seen, it looks absolutely amazing. I really don't care at all about its plot; it could be excellent or terrible, I'd still go and see it just for the special effects.

Still, I have to decide if I should watch it in 3-D or 2-D. What a hard life I have.


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## J.T.

Just got back from seeing it. The plot was predictable and the characters needed some work, but holy jesus the effects were amazing. The last half hour or so almost made up for the entire rest of the movie.

Still like _The Dark Knight_ more, though.


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## spaekle

I have to admit, the one thing that kept me wondering how it was going to end was 



Spoiler



the problem of how Jake would be able to stay in his avatar body; it didn't seem very practical that he'd be able to keep up what he was doing forever. Would he just go back home? It didn't seem like it would end very happily no matter what. But, of course, their magical god had the power to put him in his avatar body forever. I'm not sure how I feel about that, exactly; I wanted him to stay on the planet, but that whole idea really just feels like a random BS device thrown in so the movie could end happily. When the hell else would they ever _use_ that power?



The big epic fight scene was great, though. :v


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## Green

I thought it was a great movie- A much-needed break from the regular "Let's take over the alien's world! 8D" thing. Instead, they took it _to the next level_. They made it where the characters interacted with the inhabitants of the planet in a completely different way- Inhabiting artificial bodies of the human-like race of the planet, with the main humans willing to sacrifice their lives to save the extraterrestrial planet from their maniacal peers. Just about everything else I feel about the movie has been said already, so I'll end with this: If a three-year old's and sixteen-year old's imaginations had a baby, this would be it.


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## Diz

It wasn't just the power to switch people's bodies, it was that the planet was so vastly connected that something as complex as a person's brain and personality could be absorbed by the planet and then regurgitated. It also served to emphasize the underlying theme of equality in the entire movie

I went and saw the movie with my mom the other day.

It's weird how the part about the rock faded away as that one guy in charge just wanted to blow up stuff


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## J.T.

The rock thing is one of those minor things about the movie that I have a major beef with - specifically, the name they gave it. Unobtanium? Really? _Really?_ Could you not come up with a more original name? At least put a little bit of thought into it.

One of the pet peeves I have with all movies, but particularly with _Avatar_, is when someone is in epic trouble and get saved at the last second (for those who know TV Tropes, Big Damn Heroes moments taken to deus ex machina level). I don't mind a hero having partners and such, but it takes away the suspense when you know a character in a dangerous situation is going to get rescued at the last possible moment. If a character is in a bad situation, I want to see them get out of it themselves. Admittedly, it's just a personal problem, and it's probably just me, but it happened so. freaking. often. in the movie. As awesome as the last half-hour or so was, there were at least two major scenes where that happened in just that one scene alone, and I'm pretty sure I missed a few. The first time was when 



Spoiler



Neytiri's about to get torn to shreds by the men on the ground, when surprise! _every single animal in the freaking area_ decided to come down and rain hell on the humans


. The second was when Jake's about to get his throat cut by the colonel when Neytiri kills him with her bow. Again, I probably missed one or two. And to a lesser extent it seemed like kind of an asspull for 



Spoiler



Jake to have grenades during the big battle, although I'm more forgiving of that - it's not so much  unrealistic or implausible, but more of a "when did he get _those_?" kind of thing


.
... Yeah, I'm kind of hard to please.

Also my brother needs to see more movies, or at least become a bit more genre savvy. He refuses to believe I could expect anything that happened in the movie.


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## Mango

Oh, we're talking about this, are we? Wall o' text time, this movie gets my juices going.

Avatar is interesting. It's to be expected that when you hype a movie like this up as much as they did, people will hate it just that much more. I think a lot of the nastyness aimed towards this movie is more aimed towards the hype that surrounded it than anything else. The movie itself is not particularly offensive or bad, it's just very predictable.

That's what's so interesting about it; it's so damn predictable. I mean, watch the freaking trailer and if you've ever seen or read ANYTHING before, you'll know the entire story and what's going to happen, regardless of how "cryptic" they wanted the trailer to seem. But the thing is, at least I and everyone I know has found, you don't really care. This movie is good. It's nothing new or world-changing, but it's very good. The plot is well written, the characters are believable and either likeable or hateable, depending on their position in the movie, and it all moves at very nice pace. Yeah, it's a bit long, but again, I found myself not caring. It's quite obvious that this wasn't something written a month after the first idea of it; this is something has been pondered upon and well developed. This universe is so deep that you could tell me that it's based on a real planet and I'd probably believe you.

Avatar is a very well done movie. In almost every way that you can measure, it is a good movie. No, it's not as good as it was hyped to be, but that's because people were honestly expecting it to change the movie world, which is won't. But it's still an amazing cinematic experience that I would suggest to everyone I knew to go see.


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## voltianqueen

I went to see it today and I absolutely _loved_ it~ I kinda figured that a few things were going to happen, especially Jake ending up staying on Pandora, but I thought it was brilliant anyway :D


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## Icalasari

J.T. said:


> The rock thing is one of those minor things about the movie that I have a major beef with - specifically, the name they gave it. Unobtanium? Really? _Really?_ Could you not come up with a more original name? At least put a little bit of thought into it.


I think that they called it Unobtanium just to poke fun at that trope


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## Music Dragon

Vladimir Putin's LJ said:


> NO DON'T IT IS LITERARY RAPE cough cough don't know how that came out, sorry


_Does your depravity know no bounds?_


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## Slartibartfast

I saw the movie a few days ago.

It was amazing. Yeah, I know that it was clichéd, predictable, and had all those 'flaws' that critics notice, but I don't really care. It is now one of my two favorite movies (Star Trek [the new one; why the heck did they call it just Star Trek?] being the other).

So yeah. For me, the most predictable (coincidentally, also the coolest) part was Jake becoming the rider of the huge dragon-thing. Whatever it was called. And I can't get over how amazing the CGI was. They drew an entire world in a completely realistic way. There was more CGI than live-action, and they managed to make it look entirely real.


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## Exo-Raikou

I saw it a little over week ago, and I remember walking out thinking that it was an amalgamation of The Matrix, Tarzan, Pocahontas, and Star Wars

Yes, it was predictable, but I personally found that its main appeal came from its predictability. This movie struck me as a movie that could be both predictable and great at the same time. It is a favorite movie of mine, but there are times where I look for mind-blowing special effects and an amazing musical score, both of which were prominent in this movie.

That also goes a long way as to why I enjoyed ROTF so much.

On a lesser related note:

I think I'm the only one who sees a resemblance between these two.


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## speedblader03

I really do not plan on seeing this movie.  From the previews I've seen, the plot is clichéd.  Also, the aliens kind of creep me out in the way they look.(I'm not sure why)  I've never really cared about how realistic graphics are, either.


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## Dannichu

Exo-Raikou said:


> I saw it a little over week ago, and I remember walking out thinking that it was an amalgamation of The Matrix, Tarzan, Pocahontas, and Star Wars


Exact same. I was told before I went to see it that it was like a sci-fi version of Pocahontas, and they were pretty much bang on. 
A friend of mine didn't come to see it because she'd heard it was a massive "white man taming the savage natives"-fest and while that was true to an extent, I thought the minority representation (the main character being disabled was pretty cool, I thought, even if he totally escapes it in his Avatar form) was decent, especially for a film as blockbustery as Avatar was.

It was very, very pretty. Like, massively pretty. And it was the first thing I've ever seen in 3D, which was exciting. Although, and I dunno if it was just the cinema I saw it in, but I thought that with the 3D version, you lost some of the vibrancy of the colour. Just me?


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## Murkrowfeather

I think one of the things I liked about this 3D movie was that they didn't go out of their way to _remind _you that it was 3D. Like, they only used that function when it needed to be used to really make the watcher pay attention, not just to say "Oh, hey, did you remember that THIS IS A 3D MOVIE DHURR!". I personally notice a lot when they do that, because unlike most people wearing two pairs of glasses DOES actually remind you that you're watching a movie in 3D and are wearing the stupidest fashion in the history of Earth.

But yeah... Unobtanium. WHAT.


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## Blastoise Fortooate

Seeing it tomorrow...

I hear it's like Smurfs in Space.


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## Slartibartfast

> unlike most people wearing two pairs of glasses DOES actually remind you that you're watching a movie in 3D and are wearing the stupidest fashion in the history of Earth.


This is why I almost never see 3D movies. It was worth it for Avatar, though.


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## Dannichu

To those who gave props for them making an effort in regards to making the alien species scientifically consistent: 



			
				James Cameron said:
			
		

> Right from the beginning I said, “She’s got to have tits,” even though that makes no sense because her race, the Na’vi, aren’t placental mammals.


(from an interview with Playboy)

Found a couple of Avatar-related, uh, thingies. Though I'd share.

Movies (better than Avatar) that did the plot first (because I love TVWoP)

What Avatar Tells Us About Disability and Masculinity (with an excellent discussion in the comments section)

Evolution of Avatar (an outline of the evolution of racist/overused tropes that led us to Avatar)

Sociological Images discussion of Avatar (focuses specifically on aspects of race within the film, with large discussion of gender representation in the commments)

And, while mindlessly jumping from one Avatar article to another (I'm snowed in and there's not a lot else to do, okay?) I found my absoute favourite Avatar-related quote:



> Anyone that spends 10+ years and billions of dollars creating a film, then uses freaking PAPYRUS as it's identifying font is a complete douchebucket


(from here)


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## Murkrowfeather

> Anyone that spends 10+ years and billions of dollars creating a film, then uses freaking PAPYRUS as it's identifying font is a complete douchebucket


I have to agree. At first I was like, "Hey, is that Herculanum?" because I hadn't been on a Mac in a while, but then when I looked at it again I actually said out loud, in front of my friends, "Oh Mew, that's the Newbie Roleplayer Font! NO!" (If you've ever seen Neopets' roleplaying boards you'll see what I mean).


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## Rai-CH

Dannichu said:


> Anyone that spends 10+ years and billions of dollars creating a film, then uses freaking PAPYRUS as it's identifying font is a complete douchebucket
Click to expand...

I guess I wasn't the only one who noticed that XD

I saw Avatar 3D last night. The special effects and the CGI was amazing, sometimes I wasn't sure what bits were CGI and what wasn't. Though I have to agree with people who said the plot was predictable and the characters weren't really well-developed. The main character was a bit of a Gary Stu with the whole Being able to tame the giant dragon thing when only very few native Na'vis (is that the name of the blue people?) can.
Also, what happened to the Unobtainium? They destroyed the home of the Na'vis and instead of taking as much Unobtainium rocks as they could, they decided "hey screw the rocks lets BLOW SHIT UP YAAAAY :D". I understand that the humans found out that they were going to be attacked, but they could have at least grabbed what they originally came for, rather than going into a full-on war and losing all their fighter, ships and the commander.

And I want one of those helicopter-lizard things. And a garden full of the Pandora flowers :)


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## Aura Cobalt

Ok, I just have to say this was the best movie ever! I know it was cliched and predictable, but for me that kinda added to it in a way. Though while watching it I was virtually deprived of suspense, it was remniscent of older stuff I have seen. Its like if I had to be born about 5-10 years later than I was this would become my obsession. It kinda replicated in a way what I used to love, but technologically it is so much more amazing. Cliches become cliches for a reason. its a bit ironic how it works: something is really inspiring or thought-provoking, people use it all the time all over the place, people get tired of it, and it looses some of its value. You could even say in a way that overly lucky and heroic heroes are a cliche. At one time we didnt care that they dont exist in reality; that fact just made them all the more amazing. Then once we kept seeing them they became un-amazing because they were no longer special. Stupid Law of Diminishing Return. But anyway, if you could try and make yourself get over all the boring predictability, and kinda see it from a kid's eyes, the movie was great. The whole anti-military thing or whatever you call it was great, and the pantheistic religion theme was really well thought out (I know most of you wont think so). I'm not saying I agree with it, but I'm not saying I disagree. Really, this was the only movie I have ever been able to call my favorite.


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## Cheetah

The whole _point_ of 



Spoiler



Jake taming the toruk was _because_ so few of the Na'vi had done it before. It was big, showy, impressive, and it helped to earn back a lot of the respect that he'd lost when he was made an outcast.



Anywho, I saw the movie this afternoon. I loved how the jungle plants were bioluminescent. Some of them reminded me of _Nausicaa_. :3

I actually shed a few tears during the scene where the Hometree was felled. I know it was supposed to be touching and tragic in its own right, but having lived in places where the native populations were oppressed and still are added an extra dimension of sympathy for me. And I am rarely moved by movies.

So yeah. It's probably going to end up being one of my favourite movies.


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## opaltiger

> Also, what happened to the Unobtainium? They destroyed the home of the Na'vis and instead of taking as much Unobtainium rocks as they could, they decided "hey screw the rocks lets BLOW SHIT UP YAAAAY :D". I understand that the humans found out that they were going to be attacked, but they could have at least grabbed what they originally came for, rather than going into a full-on war and losing all their fighter, ships and the commander.


Um, the idea was to _mine_ the ore. Obviously it was never a "blow things up, take priceless mineral, leave" operation. Mining takes time! In fact "blow large hole into ground" was probably step one.


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## Icalasari

What I wonder is why they couldn't have tried drilling underneath home tree, starting, maybe, half a mile away? Sure, it would have cost more, but if they got the Na'vi on board, then the Na'vi could be cheap labour (basically, convince them to do the digging by saying, "Well, you know what roots to avoid. If WE dig, we are likely to accidentally shred one of your sacred trees roots to the point where the tree may as well be fire wood"). Not only that, but hey, free publicity

There is no reason why they couldn't have done that. Well, other than the movie would be boring, that is :3


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## Vladimir Putin's LJ

http://www.cnn.com/2010/SHOWBIZ/Movies/01/11/avatar.movie.blues/index.html

oh the woes of being a first-worlder ;_;


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## goldenquagsire

Vladimir Putin's LJ said:


> http://www.cnn.com/2010/SHOWBIZ/Movies/01/11/avatar.movie.blues/index.html
> 
> oh the woes of being a first-worlder ;_;


good god that is pathetic.

I mean I'm happy to accept that a film can choke you up and even make you feel down for a few days...

but Avatar? it was an enjoyable film, but it's not particularly depressing OR utopian.


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## Dannichu

I found this bit of the article funniest of all:



> Fans of the movie may find actor Stephen Lang, who plays the villainous Col. Miles Quaritch in the film, an enemy of the Na'vi people and their sacred ground, an unlikely sympathizer. But Lang says he can understand the connection people are feeling with the movie.


They really don't have high expectations of people being able to defferentiate between the film and reality, do they?


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## Eloi

Just saw it two days ago, and I have to say I am very pleased at the Na'vi language. Ya see, I'm very fascinated with all topics pertaining to linguistics, so I love it when fiction creators go out of their way to make a language instead of resorting to meaningless gibberish. Languages are so beautiful. They are deeper than any other fiction because you can express thinking and world view, change someone's perspective, with difference of a few phonemes. 
Anywho, I loved the effects, the plot, and well... everything, really. It was awesome!


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## Anonyman

I really liked this film. Yes, the plot was a bit clichéd and trope-filled, but it seemed to work really well nonetheless, almost _because_ it was so over-the-top. The effects were, needless to say, spectacular, and I came away marvelling at the scale and beauty of the whole thing.


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## Erif

Vladimir Putin's LJ said:


> http://www.cnn.com/2010/SHOWBIZ/Movies/01/11/avatar.movie.blues/index.html
> 
> oh the woes of being a first-worlder ;_;


lololololwut?

That actually makes me really mad.

But anyways, if Avatar wins an Oscar for best picture, I'ma hurt myself. k.


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## Minish

I saw it a while ago... it was pretty good. Not exactly revolutionary, unless you count the graphics, I suppose, but it was good enough. And I liked how the Na'vi sometimes seemed more than just attractive, cool humanoids -- like when they mourned.

The ending... I dunno. I'm not so sure about it. I don't see why Jake would just decide to stay on Pandora rather than, I don't know, going back to Earth and actually trying to change public opinion? Seemed an easy route out and everything was solved pretty simply once Evil Extremist Guy died.

Plus, I didn't like the 'mating' very much at all. Also didn't like how Neytiri just decided to leave her omg soul mate partner because of something that could well be a misunderstanding. And also how Jake suddenly became one of the 'best' members of the Na'vi tribe. Mighty Whitey, anyone?

...uh, but yeah, other than that, I liked it... XD

Also, the 'Avatar blues'... I can understand why they're sad after watching the film. But whining about how life on Earth isn't as beautiful as Pandora and basically how our planet sucks? Have they ever actually _tried_ to help the planet? Go green, people! You live in a 'dying world'? Go out and _see_ the world. If there are so many people thinking the same as them, that they're 'all alone' and lost without the fantasy of Pandora and all that being real, then surely they should realise that no, not ALL of the human race are bastards?


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## opaltiger

> I don't see why Jake would just decide to stay on Pandora rather than, I don't know, going back to Earth and actually trying to change public opinion?


That would have been the most contrived plotline ever.


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## Minish

opaltiger said:


> That would have been the most contrived plotline ever.


But you have to admit, more satisfying!


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## Butterfree

...not really, no.


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## Minish

Why not? :/ Instead of just going 'oh, to hell with the human race, it doesn't matter that the whole film has been about how greedy and aggressive humans are because I'm one of the _tribe_ now!', he could have gone back and been like how Grace was. A teacher, a translator, a middle man. Instead it was pretty much implied that he decided to abandon humanity because he liked Pandora and being a Na'vi better. It seemed a bit of... I dunno, a cop-out?

I guess it wouldn't matter so much if the humans went back to Earth and never bothered the Na'vi again (still seems like everything was resolved alarmingly quickly), but it seemed like the ending was a bit underwhelming, even though as a kid I would have adored it.


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## Tarvos

movie was pretty bad


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## Butterfree

Cirrus said:


> Why not? :/ Instead of just going 'oh, to hell with the human race, it doesn't matter that the whole film has been about how greedy and aggressive humans are because I'm one of the _tribe_ now!', he could have gone back and been like how Grace was. A teacher, a translator, a middle man. Instead it was pretty much implied that he decided to abandon humanity because he liked Pandora and being a Na'vi better. It seemed a bit of... I dunno, a cop-out?


But the whole movie was setting up how much Jake was coming to hate being his crippled human self and how much more he identified with the Na'vi. It would have been grossly out of character for him to choose to go back to Earth. And what's more of a cop-out than taking an established character and making him suddenly act against everything he is in order to make the movie possibly more uplifting for a human audience? Not that it would really have been uplifting; I would have found it depressing as hell to watch this movie and then have to go away with the message that, "Well, you can never be one with another culture, ever, no matter how much more you identify with them than the one you come from and how much you despise your former life."


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## Minish

Butterfree said:


> But the whole movie was setting up how much Jake was coming to hate being his crippled human self and how much more he identified with the Na'vi. It would have been grossly out of character for him to choose to go back to Earth. And what's more of a cop-out than taking an established character and making him suddenly act against everything he is in order to make the movie possibly more uplifting for a human audience? Not that it would really have been uplifting; I would have found it depressing as hell to watch this movie and then have to go away with the message that, "Well, you can never be one with another culture, ever, no matter how much more you identify with them than the one you come from and how much you despise your former life."


I suppose that makes sense now that I remember he was crippled, but I thought the point was that he was just an average human guy who got to experience Na'vi culture, rather than someone who felt so out of place with his own race that he'd choose to permanently leave it. If anything, Grace was the one who felt displaced; I found her a much better character than Jake.

I didn't think that it was uplifting at all that he decided to abandon his race because it was so crap. How is that uplifting for a human audience? I think it _was_ that message, whether intentional or not. "You can't choose to connect and improve relations between two drastically different races, because they're always going to be so wildly different that you have to switch. And also, you personally will never be able to do something like that."

He didn't try to improve relations between the two cultures and help them understand eachother. He just decided his own was so crap that he shouldn't even bother. It seemed to me that the whole point of the story was _him_ switching culture completely just because it was better (even though it was a pretty stereotypical Noble Warrior race, and the Na'vi weren't exactly that different from humans) rather than two cultures trying to understand eachother.


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## opaltiger

> Why not? :/ Instead of just going 'oh, to hell with the human race, it doesn't matter that the whole film has been about how greedy and aggressive humans are because I'm one of the tribe now!', he could have gone back and been like how Grace was. A teacher, a translator, a middle man. Instead it was pretty much implied that he decided to abandon humanity because he liked Pandora and being a Na'vi better. It seemed a bit of... I dunno, a cop-out?


That was the single thing that sets this film apart from others that use a similar plot structure. The whole _point_ was that Earth was abandoned to stew in its own mess. It's a very blatant message: not about "let's all understand each other and be happy and live harmoniously", but about "the human race is _fucked_ and we are bloody well not going back to Earth". This film isn't just environmentalist, it is one of the most anti-imperialist, anti-colonialist, and anti-American films ever.



> ...not really, no.


I agree. The film is a commentary on the state of the world: it says, "if things keep going this way we're going to implode, there will be nothing worth saving on Earth". If he had gone back, it would have ruined that. It would have said, "don't worry, we can sit back and do nothing while the charismatic heroes of our society save the day!" That simply isn't true.

eta: I agree also with Butterfree's points on the characterisation, but I think here the characterisation serves the message rather than vice versa.


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## Tarvos

it's a pity that apart from the overly "ecofuckenhippie" plot (and I agree the world is in a right state but I hate proselytism like this) the 3D effects were silly mediocre and that it is really highly overrated as all hell. i wouldn't pay to see it again, a lot of generic bleat on how we should all be ecolovin' fuckin hippies and screw the deep ecology shit like Naess proposed and all his buddies.

fuckit bad plot and choice for style over substances give me a reason to score this below par


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## aquafire95

Wow, everyone seems to of really liked it.  I saw it, and it was... OK.  Pretty good, but nothing special.  People will probably forget it by next year.  The special effects were really, really good, but other then that I just didn't quite "click" with the characters.  I think it was dumb how partially everyone dies in the end, even the nice people.  I hate it when that happens.


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## opaltiger

aquafire95 said:


> Wow, everyone seems to of really liked it.  I saw it, and it was... OK.  Pretty good, but nothing special.  People will probably forget it by next year.  The special effects were really, really good, but other then that I just didn't quite "click" with the characters.  I think it was dumb how partially everyone dies in the end, even the nice people.  I hate it when that happens.


Everything else aside, no one is going to forget Avatar any time soon. Most successful film ever: Avatar, $2.7b. Second most successful film ever: Titanic, $1.8b (corollary: smuggest director ever, James Cameron).

Also, nice people die.


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## Dannichu

Yeah, but puppies die. Doesn't mean I'd enjoy seeing a film about it. If I went to see a film about puppies dying and someone asked me if I liked it, I'd say "No, the puppies died.".


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## Harlequin

But do the puppies dying serve any other purpose than 'puppies die, let's fap'?


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## Dannichu

They could, and it might actually be an enjoyable film otherwise, but I'm a person who doesn't like puppies dying, and seeing such on a giant screen would ruin the film for me. People have things they like to see in films, and things they don't. My enjoyment of a film, among other things, rests on there being no puppies dying.

(101 Dalmatians came dangerously close, let me tell you)


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