# Why do people think it ok to not know math?



## Cyndaquil (Sep 5, 2008)

I mean really people should try to learn math. People gain some respect for it even unlike not knowing to read which is something to be ashamed of(Usually). So I want to know what you think?  
By the way Math is one of my favorite subjects.


----------



## spaekle (Sep 5, 2008)

Well, of course it's not okay to not be able to at least do basic math. Knowing more than that is always good too; but I don't suppose it's a great tragedy if a person skips out on learning, say, Trigonometry if they're not going into any field that requires it. Math isn't my favorite subject nor the one that I'm best at, but I can do it as it's required of me.


----------



## Furretsu (Sep 5, 2008)

Some other people should really learn English.

Hint. Hint.


----------



## Cyndaquil (Sep 5, 2008)

Spaekle Oddberry said:


> Well, of course it's not okay to not be able to at least do basic math. Knowing more than that is always good too; but I don't suppose it's a great tragedy if a person skips out on learning, say, Trigonometry if they're not going into any field that requires it. Math isn't my favorite subject nor the one that I'm best at, but I can do it as it's required of me.


I think that most people will still need to know more than basic math I mean really most people have to have that stuff with their bills done by someone else because they don't know it I mean really why do people think its cool to not know anything about math?

Who are you Implying should learn english?


----------



## #1 bro (Sep 5, 2008)

Why do people think it ok to not know grammar?

I mean it make you look like idiot(Usually) .


ontopic: I don't really care about math tbh


----------



## EvilCrazyMonkey (Sep 5, 2008)

I highly doubt that most jobs even use most of the things covered in Algebra II.
Then again, you never know.


----------



## #1 bro (Sep 5, 2008)

ha ha okay funny story so in our old math textbooks in every section there would be a little "Real World Applications" box that is trying to convince young students that yes! math is useful in the real world TOO! and whatnot. 

only: I kid you not, one of these little explanations was "you can use the material in this chapter when you're at the beach, and you want to find the volume of a mound of sand!" and also "you can use this if you're at a deli, and you want to how many different possible types of sandwiches there are!". They were all like this. UH, GUYS? YOU'RE NOT EXACTLY DOING MUCH TO FURTHER YOUR CASE.


----------



## spaekle (Sep 5, 2008)

Some people think it's cool to not do anything educational. I'm personally getting sick of seeing things to the effect of "Who the fuck reads books?" under that section on people's MySpaces.

Some people don't even realize what dumbasses they are. It's sad. :\


----------



## Linzys (Sep 5, 2008)

I wish I could learn math more effectively. I try very hard, and I think that intricacy and logic of it are amazing and fascinating once I understand, but I am really bad when it comes to knowing _why_ it works the way it does, _why_ such precise steps must be taken in the specific ways that they are. As a result, I can never remember the proper steps and usually end up forgetting a small detail, thereby screwing up the entire answer.

I love the idea, but I hate having to do it. It's embarrassing to ask a teacher to explain things again and again...


----------



## #1 bro (Sep 5, 2008)

Spaekle Oddberry said:


> Some people think it's cool to not do anything educational. I'm personally getting sick of seeing things to the effect of "Who the fuck reads books?" under that section on people's MySpaces.


That was almost a running joke in our awesome language arts class from last year. We would make fun of anyone who admits to reading a book, despite almost all of us reading books for fun once in a while. Although we kind of stopped halfway through the year when this new kid came. He read (on average) twenty books a month. :P 

I'll occasionally read a book if it interests me, but my parents are always "BORED? READ A BOOK LOL" and I'm all "screw you, imma go play video games". In general, most books don't hold my attention. :|


----------



## Linzys (Sep 5, 2008)

Zeta Reticuli said:


> I'll occasionally read a book if it interests me, but my parents are always "BORED? READ A BOOK LOL" and I'm all "screw you, imma go play video games". In general, most books don't hold my attention. :|


Ditto. XD I do like reading sometimes, but it really has to catch my interest right away.


----------



## Cyndaquil (Sep 5, 2008)

Linzys said:


> I wish I could learn math more effectively. I try very hard, and I think that intricacy and logic of it are amazing and fascinating once I understand, but I am really bad when it comes to knowing _why_ it works the way it does, _why_ such precise steps must be taken in the specific ways that they are. As a result, I can never remember the proper steps and usually end up forgetting a small detail, thereby screwing up the entire answer.
> 
> I love the idea, but I hate having to do it. It's embarrassing to ask a teacher to explain things again and again...



I don't memorize the math things.... I write down the formulas etc before I do a problem so that way I can remember it. I have no need to remember things they just stick in my head.


----------



## IcySapphire (Sep 5, 2008)

Quoth a very special math teacher of mine: "It is not the material itself that is hard, but rather the way it is presented to you that makes it hard."

That year was heaven compared to the algebra class I took the year before, which was a nightmare--I actually understood math thanks to her.


----------



## Kratos Aurion (Sep 5, 2008)

You don't just learn advanced math because your teachers are hoping (probably in vain) that you will go on to become a programmer or a math teacher or whatever. You learn it because it teaches you about logic, problem solving... that sort of thing. Fuck no I'm not going to teach college calc, but the way math exercises my brain is going to pay off somewhere down the road. Or, at least, that's what I'm told the general idea is.

...or, rather, it would help me out down the road if I could actually retain any math knowledge _at all._ O hai thur security calculator I still hug when I need to do anything more complicated than basic multiplication/division. D: and even that sometimes D:D:D:


----------



## cheesecake (Sep 5, 2008)

I think everyone needs to know basic math and maybe a little more advanced then that, but not everyone should need to know some extreme alegebra or anything.

I don't like math but my math teacher is awesome xD


----------



## Crazy Linoone (Sep 5, 2008)

Cyndaquil said:


> I think that most people will still need to know more than basic math I mean really most people have to have that stuff with their bills done by someone else because they don't know it I mean really why do people think its cool to not know anything about math?


Whoa super long run on sentence and uh I think people let others do their bills for them because they're either lazy or they don't trust themselves to do bills correctly and I think people are stupid if they can't even do simple and it's really hard to type in run on sentences because my fingers keep on reaching for the period key but whatever and I don't like math that much because I don't like the tons of homework I have to do and I don't see how I'm going to use trigonometry or algebra in life unless I'm trying to figure out the volume of this sand castle I build here on this random beach that I don't go to. 

*gasp* Talking in run-on sentences is hard.... Anyway, simple math is useful in real life, but complicated math (like algebra and that kind of stuff) is, as far as I can tell, not useful at all unless you have a job related to it or something. And then there's always this awesome invention called the calculator...


----------



## Arylett Charnoa (Sep 5, 2008)

Well, people probably think it's okay not to use it because a lot of them struggle with it. Math isn't something that a lot of people find easy. Nor is much of it necessary beyond the basics unless you're going in a job that specifically requires it. I myself hate it with a burning intensity. Why? Because I suck. No seriously, I really DO suck. And I'm not just your typical person who can't do the more complicated stuff either, I can't do long division and struggle immensely with multiplication. (That's why I love you, calculator~) 

Don't even get me started with mental math, I can't even divide in my head and I can't add three digit numbers unless they've got two zeroes somewhere in them, same with subtraction and multiplication. Always struggled with stupid math my whole life. I tell you, my mind is horrible with numbers. I can barely remember my own phone number, let alone do math with stuff.

And that's why some people think it's okay not to know it, because they don't like it. Nobody likes what they dislike. Also, others may just think it serves no purpose for their future jobs, the more complicated math. (like Geometry and all that jazz)


----------



## Linzys (Sep 5, 2008)

Oh my God. I am the same way, Arylett. D: Numbers in general tend to my head spin. ): I have a hard time even with Sudoku, not because of how it works, but because I am confused by and don't know what to do with the numbers. I always feel like they need to be applied in some more complicated way.


----------



## Eevee (Sep 5, 2008)

IcySapphire said:


> Quoth a very special math teacher of mine: "It is not the material itself that is hard, but rather the way it is presented to you that makes it hard."


everything I have seen in math classes has convinced me that this is absolutely true.  most math teachers _suck ass_ at teaching math, and textbooks are often not much better.

if you had to learn a rhyme to remember the quadratic formula, you are Doin' It Wrong.  you should be able to _derive_ the quadratic formula in a pinch.



Kratos Aurion said:


> You don't just learn advanced math because your teachers are hoping (probably in vain) that you will go on to become a programmer or a math teacher or whatever. You learn it because it teaches you about logic, problem solving... that sort of thing. Fuck no I'm not going to teach college calc, but the way math exercises my brain is going to pay off somewhere down the road.


truth

although there are of course the practical applications too; a deeper understanding of math in general will tend to make you better at solving real problems.  but these aren't things you can put in a math book to lure in high schoolers.



Kratos Aurion said:


> ...or, rather, it would help me out down the road if I could actually retain any math knowledge _at all._ O hai thur security calculator I still hug when I need to do anything more complicated than basic multiplication/division. D: and even that sometimes D:D:D:


dammit you guys do I have to open tcod math class



Arylett Dawnsborough said:


> Well, people probably think it's okay not to use it because a lot of them struggle with it. Math isn't something that a lot of people find easy. Nor is much of it necessary beyond the basics unless you're going in a job that specifically requires it. I myself hate it with a burning intensity. Why? Because I suck. No seriously, I really DO suck.


granted there are always things that some people are good at and some people are just bad at, but I still have to wonder how much of this is caused by a bad foundation

it is very hard for me to accept that a large number of people are inherently incapable of grasping a field built entirely upon logic



Arylett Dawnsborough said:


> Also, others may just think it serves no purpose for their future jobs, the more complicated math. (like Geometry and all that jazz)


I guess if your future job is working at home depot

wait no lol there's math there too



Linzys said:


> I have a hard time even with Sudoku, not because of how it works, but because I am confused by and don't know what to do with the numbers. I always feel like they need to be applied in some more complicated way.


so replace the numbers with letters or symbols or names of states or whatever.  there is zero math in sudoku; the numbers are completely irrelevant


----------



## Negrek (Sep 5, 2008)

> everything I have seen in math classes has convinced me that this is absolutely true. most math teachers suck ass at teaching math, and textbooks are often not much better.
> 
> if you had to learn a rhyme to remember the quadratic formula, you are Doin' It Wrong. you should be able to derive the quadratic formula in a pinch.


I'd tend to agree with that. At least for me, I find that if I'm able to understand the concepts behind something rather than simply memorize a method or a formula to solve a specific kind of problem. I may never be able to forget the Quadratic Formula now (Q@%Q@$#% song), but I'll bet if I'd been taught how to arrive at it myself rather than having it pounded it into my head by listening to this obnoxious guy repeat a rhyme about it for fifteen minutes of class I'd be better off.

I'm not a huge fan of math, nor am I particularly good at it, but I think that learning it is important to get a good grasp on it, if only for the reasons that Kratos and Eevee mentioned. Doing math is a good way to build your problem-solving abilities and mental agility, which will benefit you in almost all areas.


----------



## EvilCrazyMonkey (Sep 5, 2008)

I seem to be the outcast; I can whiz through math/science, but get stuck on language arts and social studies.
I remember in third grade I was able to remember the page of a book that I was reading. It was rather cool because I didn't need a bookmark. But my memory has worsened since then.



Eevee said:


> quadratic formula


THE OPPOSITE OF B PLUS OR MINUS THE SQUARE ROOT OF B SQUARED MINUS 4AC DIVIDED BY 2A


----------



## opaltiger (Sep 5, 2008)

> He read (on average) twenty books a month. :P


people are constantly amazed that I both read upwards of that amount and spend hours on the internet. it's like the two MUST be mutually exclusive or something.

also guys holy crap algebra is not complicated maths (don't even get me started on geometry).



> dammit you guys do I have to open tcod math class


if you do, do me a favour and start at differentiation. :(


----------



## Altmer (Sep 5, 2008)

no opal you just use your brains efficiently


----------



## Jolty (Sep 5, 2008)

To be honest I think english is more important than maths... but people SHOULD be able to add, subtract, multiply and divide at least.
or maybe it depends on what job you want to do I dunno

I seem to be good at both, because I got an A* for english and an A for maths in my GCSEs...


----------



## Tailsy (Sep 5, 2008)

Vee is a complete nerd but he is correctamundo.

Maths is useful \o/ if a shitty subject
that I am probably failing
because
i don't like quadratics they smell funny


----------



## Altmer (Sep 5, 2008)

Yes, Vee wins this one.


----------



## goldenquagsire (Sep 5, 2008)

The "most maths is useless in later life" argument is flawed. On that logic, we should also get rid of French (come on is there anyone IMPORTANT who speaks it), History (old shit? who needs it), Science (homoeostasis is not relevant to office jobs), English (as if anyone cares that you can write pretty stories)... eventually, you can narrow down the list of necessary lessons to PE, IT and arse-wiping.

The whole point of teaching pre-A-level (someone who knows both the American and English school system will need to translate that for me) is, imo, partly to teach you some general skills for later life, partly to force social skills on you and partly to give you a taste of different disciplines, so you don't just choose something completely at random. Admittedly, there is usually quite a difference between what one learns at school and at college, but it's still somewhat representative of what you'd get if you decide to pursue a certain academic career.

I am, of course, a complete hypocrite. I utterly detest maths. I cannot understand what is taught to me, and contrary to Eevee's belief, I doubt that I'd understand it even if it was explained better. I'm more proficient in abstract concepts; I can easily grasp history, geography, English, arts... Nevertheless, I can see the reasoning behind forcing me to take ten years of maths. Besides, aside from a few individuals in this topic, most of us haven't even entered college. I wouldn't say that we're qualified to speak on such matters of education.


----------



## opaltiger (Sep 5, 2008)

> necessary lessons to PE


what is your justification for this?


----------



## Kratos Aurion (Sep 5, 2008)

Eevee said:


> dammit you guys do I have to open tcod math class


It isn't so much that I can't do math at all. I had some of the highest grades in my class in high school and apparently I can force myself to remember some stuff (yes, ##$^U$@#^ quadratic formula--BUT I REMEMBERED IT EVENTUALLY and without a stupid rhyme) when I absolutely have to, but not without stressing out about "oh holy shit I can't remember this I can't remember this aaaaaaa" for a good ten minutes or so. I suspect it's just because I don't do it often enough. I read books and stuff for the hell of it all the time, but it's not like I decide to go do some _awesome calculus_ on a whim. Lack of practice leading to a lack of self-confidence leading to the dire need for a security calculator--that's me, I guess.

I'm just glad I was the only one in the room when I was taking that entrance test for my new school. Other people didn't need to hear what I was shouting at the computer, lol.

I mean, I'm a pretty decent problem solver. It's just that when I have to do _actual math_ it all goes out the window.


----------



## Eevee (Sep 5, 2008)

EvilCrazyMonkey said:


> THE OPPOSITE OF B PLUS OR MINUS THE SQUARE ROOT OF B SQUARED MINUS 4AC DIVIDED BY 2A


COMPLETE THE GODDAMN SQUARE



opaltiger said:


> people are constantly amazed that I both read upwards of that amount and spend hours on the internet. it's like the two MUST be mutually exclusive or something.


I would have some cool reading stats but 99% of my reading is done over the internet  :(  Books are expensive and there is no library within walking distance...  although I'e bought a few design books recently which are immensely interesting.



opaltiger said:


> if you do, do me a favour and start at differentiation. :(


I think that may be a little bit above most of the population of this forum.  :B



goldenquagsire said:


> On that logic, we should also get rid of French (come on is there anyone IMPORTANT who speaks it), History (old shit? who needs it)


I fully support this endeavor.



goldenquagsire said:


> I am, of course, a complete hypocrite. I utterly detest maths. I cannot understand what is taught to me, and contrary to Eevee's belief, I doubt that I'd understand it even if it was explained better.


Well, of course.  With an attitude like that, you're never going to understand a damn thing.



goldenquagsire said:


> I'm more proficient in abstract concepts; I can easily grasp history, geography, English, arts...


Those aren't abstract.  They're _arbitrary_.  Math is almost as abstract as you can get.


----------



## Tailsy (Sep 5, 2008)

goldenquagsire said:


> On that logic, we should also get rid of French (come on is there anyone IMPORTANT who speaks it).


hmm gee
only _five hundred million_ people speak french

oh
that seems like a big number, doesn't it!


----------



## opaltiger (Sep 5, 2008)

> I think that may be a little bit above most of the population of this forum. :B


welcome to the story of my life :(

maybe you can do two maths classes 8)



> (come on is there anyone IMPORTANT who speaks it).


Jean-Michel Cousteau!

...

:D?


----------



## Butterfree (Sep 5, 2008)

Math is awesome.

Okay, you can use math for solving various puzzles. Come on, those are all over the place and they're _fun_. You can use math to understand card tricks. You can get geeky over the formulas used in your favorite video games. You can, in general, understand the world so much better. By extension, you become better at logic puzzles and so on as well. Screw being practical: it's _enjoyable_. It's genuinely enriching to life itself to know math, and not just what you people are calling basic stuff, either.

That doesn't mean I don't fall asleep in math class. Math teachers, as previously noted, tend not to be very good at teaching it; whole generations' mathematical knowledge is built up from learning rules like parrots without understanding what any of it actually _means_ and _why_ it is the way it is, and in general this just means that either people get it on their own or they don't, in which case they'll fail and hate math for the rest of their lives without _ever_ getting it. Which is sad, because they have no idea how much they're missing.

Granted, from reading this thread, I don't have it quite as bad as you do. Teaching the quadratic formula with a _rhyme_? What the hell?


----------



## opaltiger (Sep 5, 2008)

> Teaching the quadratic formula with a rhyme? What the hell?


wait, _what?_ my eyes must have glazed over reading that part of the thread.

I seem to be fairly lucky in that I have a pretty awesome maths teacher, though, which might contribute to my love of the subject; but then everyone else in my class save... one person? hates it so uh maybe not.


----------



## Kratos Aurion (Sep 5, 2008)

Yeah, that... sucks. My teacher never did anything like that; she taught us how to arrive at the formula, not to MEMORIZE IT IN SONG FORM like most of you seem to have had to do. :/ Not that I remember anything _but_ the formula now, again because I'm horribly out of practice, but at least I don't have a retarded song stuck in my head.

My teacher was awesome, though. She totally would've let me draw an Infernape attacking a calculator as the cover of the book I had to hand in (don't ask, I don't feel like explaining my hippie school atm) and she was going to take us out for pie on Pi Day (but forgot D:).


----------



## Murkrow (Sep 5, 2008)

Nobody that I've met thinks it's ok not to know it.

It's either that they find it extremely boring, or it's just because of the meanness of all of the maths teachers in my school. (except that one who left, but she had _crazy_ teeth so nobody wanted to be taught by her)

And I've never had a rhyme taught to me to make stuff easier to learn, except history to learn dates. And that time in chemistry when I made that thing up that translates to 'Respect many religions, Hitler must be sunk.'

Anyway, more on subject, there are a few job examples that don't really require anything above basic maths. Although, admittedly they're all 'cashier at McDonald's' type thing. It's just even they need to do taxes and things.


----------



## Cryssie (Sep 5, 2008)

I _want_ to like maths, and I would sorely love to be good at it, but anything remotely advanced frustrates me. I am quite jealous of people who are amazing at it. :(

I _used to_ be among the best in my class in earlier years (A* at GCSE, not that that's saying much), but recently I have just plain _struggled_ to remember techniques and junk (C at A Level, the shame D:).

Maybe it's the teaching methods (although I hesitate to criticise or lay any blame on such nice people), or maybe I'm just not cut out for maths, or maybe it's a mix, who knows. For the record, I don't remember being taught a rhyme for the quadratic formula, but then again if we were ever taught how to _derive_ it, I don't remember that, either. :(

But yeah, while I think that maths is endlessly useful and good mental exercise, as long as I'm not relying on someone to do a task that requires mathematical knowledge, I don't really mind if they can't expand brackets or differentiate or whatever else. *Shrug.*


----------



## goldenquagsire (Sep 5, 2008)

> what is your justification for this?


Someone needs to teach kids how not to end up fat and unhealthy (and god knows that we can't expect parents to do it any more). Because if everyone's fat and unhealthy, that's MY taxes that have to pay for their heart surgery. D:



> I fully support this endeavor.


*facepalm*



> Well, of course. With an attitude like that, you're never going to understand a damn thing.


If you can make me understand the sort of maths that I need to pass my GCSEs, then I will give you a free car. I bloody well want to understand the crap that they're feeding me, because my higher education is at stake.



> Those aren't abstract. They're arbitrary. Math is almost as abstract as you can get.


"Abstract" as in "needs actual human subjectivity". A computer can do maths, but it can't scrutinise art.



> hmm gee
> only five hundred million people speak french
> 
> oh
> that seems like a big number, doesn't it!


For once, the point wasn't "French is a stupid language", it was "well kindly explain why everything taught in schools has to have practical uses".



> Okay, you can use math for solving various puzzles. Come on, those are all over the place and they're fun. You can use math to understand card tricks. You can get geeky over the formulas used in your favorite video games. You can, in general, understand the world so much better. By extension, you become better at logic puzzles and so on as well. Screw being practical: it's enjoyable. It's genuinely enriching to life itself to know math, and not just what you people are calling basic stuff, either.


I feel the same way about English.


----------



## Tailsy (Sep 5, 2008)

goldenquagsire said:


> For once, the point wasn't "French is a stupid language", it was "well kindly explain why everything taught in schools has to have practical uses".


But French _has_ a practical use :S you can't possibly use that as an argument.


----------



## Zeph (Sep 5, 2008)

I'm good at maths, I suppose. I find it relatively easy to do, but I'd be better if I actually paid attention in lessons.

I have no idea how the Quadratic formula could possibly be made into a song. I mean, how can you make a bunch of numbers and powers magically _rhyme_? All I can think of is 7 and 11, but to my knowledge neither are in the formula in question.

On a somewhat unrelated note (I was reminded by 'pi day'), a few years ago they built anew classroom in the maths block. It was in-between M3 and M4, so what did they call it? Mπ, of course.


----------



## Arylett Charnoa (Sep 5, 2008)

Eevee said:


> granted there are always things that some people are good at and some people are just bad at, but I still have to wonder how much of this is caused by a bad foundation
> 
> it is very hard for me to accept that a large number of people are inherently incapable of grasping a field built entirely upon logic
> 
> ...


Some of us are less logical than others. I, for example, am very unlogical. Thus, math does not mesh with me.

Calculator. In Home Depot, there's the computer! And it does the calculations for you. So then I don't have to think about the evil math.

Provided, just because I suck at math, doesn't mean I'm completely worthless. I can do some VERY basic math and I never said there were no jobs were I didn't have to do NO math at all. I was talking about Geometry and Trig and that stuff. I know that you'll always need to do some addition and multiplication and what not.


----------



## Altmer (Sep 5, 2008)

Vee really is right. Mathematics is the most structurally rigid thing to learn. It depends on lots and lots of practicing, and loads of people are too lazy or unwilling to put the time in.


----------



## opaltiger (Sep 5, 2008)

> I was talking about Geometry and Trig and that stuff. I know that you'll always need to do some addition and multiplication and what not.


I get trigonometry, but why the hell are you grouping geometry with it? Basic geometry, ie. the kind of thing you'd learn around 7th/8th grade is like "side a times side b equals area". Seriously.


----------



## goldenquagsire (Sep 5, 2008)

> But French has a practical use :S you can't possibly use that as an argument.


French is far less practical than, say, Chinese or English.

If it upsets you that much to see the French insulted, I won't use it as part of my argument mmkay?


----------



## Arylett Charnoa (Sep 5, 2008)

opaltiger said:


> I get trigonometry, but why the hell are you grouping geometry with it? Basic geometry, ie. the kind of thing you'd learn around 7th/8th grade is like "side a times side b equals area". Seriously.


...I must be immensely behind then, because I'm learning it in 11th grade. 

Also, I find some of what I'm learning in Geometry to be rather pointless for later in life, but eh, what do I know? I'm just saying that I find both Trig and Geometry pointless to learn, which was why I grouped them together. But feel free to disagree with me.


----------



## Altmer (Sep 5, 2008)

you know what the problem is

you fucks complain about solving quadratic equations which is kiddy stuff compared to solving differential equations


----------



## opaltiger (Sep 5, 2008)

> ...I must be immensely behind then, because I'm learning it in 11th grade.


oh god what

the past few days have shattered my opinion of the US and UK maths syllabus :( what the hell guys get your acts together >:(


----------



## Arylett Charnoa (Sep 5, 2008)

opaltiger said:


> oh god what
> 
> the past few days have shattered my opinion of the US and UK maths syllabus :( what the hell guys get your acts together >:(


Oh no, no, opaltiger. I'm just really behind. I'm two years behind in math. Most people of my grade level are ahead of me. I told you, I suck at math.


----------



## Altmer (Sep 5, 2008)

Everyone is behind on maths, it's always like that. Good maths teaching requires consistent weekly practice. You don't learn maths unless you practice to death. It's really fucking boring to do, but it's the only way. 

You learn maths the same way you learn to play tennis. Doing it often.


----------



## goldenquagsire (Sep 5, 2008)

> the past few days have shattered my opinion of the US and UK maths syllabus :( what the hell guys get your acts together >:(


HEY HEY at least over here we don't just teach history entirely about our own's country's past. D:<

though i admit that we're shit at teaching foreign languages D:



> You learn maths the same way you learn to play tennis. Doing it often.


This actually gives me less incentive to practice it. See, I have no more desire to learn maths than I do tennis, and I see little practical value for it in any of my likely career choices. If trying to become good at an art that I dislike and have no wish to be good at involves that much practice, then why bother to study beyond what's needed for an A or A* at GCSE?


----------



## Ruby (Sep 5, 2008)

Soon French is going to be as dead as Latin.


----------



## Jolty (Sep 5, 2008)

opaltiger said:


> I get trigonometry, but why the hell are you grouping geometry with it? Basic geometry, ie. the kind of thing you'd learn around 7th/8th grade is like "side a times side b equals area". Seriously.


7th/8th grade wtf
I learnt that in 4th grade

also why do people find most geometry hard
I can only think of 3D trig being a bastard but that's only untill you figure out where to start


----------



## Kratos Aurion (Sep 5, 2008)

> HEY HEY at least over here we don't just teach history entirely about our own's country's past. D:<


Not if you go to hippie school.

And for the record, while I can't remember anything about differentials either, I seem to recall screwing those up less often than quadratic equation problems; I always preferred graphing almost any other way if it was at all possible. Although, given that we didn't get to spend _too_ much time on differential equations, it could just be that we never got into the really tough stuff.


----------



## goldenquagsire (Sep 5, 2008)

> Soon French is going to be as dead as Latin.


And when it does, my classmates and I will be celebrating on the streets. Though we may have our differences, we are united by a common hatred of the French language.


----------



## Altmer (Sep 5, 2008)

goldenquagsire said:


> HEY HEY at least over here we don't just teach history entirely about our own's country's past. D:<
> 
> though i admit that we're shit at teaching foreign languages D:
> 
> ...


Pick a skill you like doing then. It's not just tennis, it's not just football. Learning maths is like any skill: you get good at it if you do it often. How good you can maximally get depends on your talent, but everyone can learn maths if they just put the effort into it.


----------



## Tailsy (Sep 5, 2008)

goldenquagsire said:


> French is far less practical than, say, Chinese or English.
> 
> If it upsets you that much to see the French insulted, I won't use it as part of my argument mmkay?


I'm significantly more likely to need French than Chinese, considering that, funnily enough, it is a lot easier to emigrate to dominantly French-speaking countries (see France, Switzerland, Luxembourg etc) than I am to fling myself half way around the world. I'm not insulted by you pretending that isn't practical, I'm irritated that you seem to have no grasp of the basic concept of

'LOTS OF COUNTRIES HAVE SIGNIFICANT AMOUNTS OF FRANCOPHONES IN THEM'
'HOW MANY ... CHINESEOPHONES ARE THERE IN NOT-CHINA'
'UMMMMM'


----------



## Eevee (Sep 5, 2008)

goldenquagsire said:


> If you can make me understand the sort of maths that I need to pass my GCSEs, then I will give you a free car. I bloody well want to understand the crap that they're feeding me, because my higher education is at stake.


Sounds more like you want to *know* it, but you want to avoid *learning* it as much as humanly possible.

You cannot well learn something you actively don't want to learn or believe you can't learn.



goldenquagsire said:


> "Abstract" as in "needs actual human subjectivity".


We call that "subjective".  Abstract means "not concrete".



goldenquagsire said:


> A computer can do maths


You would be surprised.



Arylett Dawnsborough said:


> Calculator. In Home Depot, there's the computer! And it does the calculations for you. So then I don't have to think about the evil math.


I guess if you carry a calculator with you while stocking shelves...

...and it's a TI-92 so it can do geometry too...

...and it can do spacial reasoning...

...and you know enough math to know how to use it effectively in the first place...



Arylett Dawnsborough said:


> I was talking about Geometry and Trig and that stuff.


I would think that learning about _shapes_ would be fairly useful on a higher level.



Arylett Dawnsborough said:


> Also, I find some of what I'm learning in Geometry to be rather pointless for later in life, but eh, what do I know? I'm just saying that I find both Trig and Geometry pointless to learn, which was why I grouped them together.


Argh.

*What the hell do you know about what knowledge you'll need later in life?*  Do you really think your job will only require you to know things taught in subjects with the same name as your profession?  Are you oblivious to how much lines are blurring between fields as technology progresses and meshes information?

I don't understand how you can flat-out say "I only need to know X for the entire rest of my life".

*Knowledge is inherently useful.*  At the very _very_ least it is exercise for your brain.  Beyond that it gives you an increasingly broad base from which to make decisions, solve problems, figure out when and what else to learn, and generally perceive the world.  If you're lucky, you'll find ways to apply everything you know to make your life and work far easier and more productive...  but you'll never know how to do so if you steadfastly refuse because you think you already know everything you'll "need" for the next 60 years.

What you "need" and what is _useful_ are painfully different concepts, anyway.



Altmer said:


> you fucks complain about solving quadratic equations which is kiddy stuff compared to solving differential equations


Differential equations are _fucking awesome_.  DiffEq was the best math class I'd taken in years.



Kratos Aurion said:


> And for the record, while I can't remember anything about differentials either, I seem to recall screwing those up less often than quadratic equation problems; I always preferred graphing almost any other way if it was at all possible. Although, given that we didn't get to spend _too_ much time on differential equations, it could just be that we never got into the really tough stuff.


Short of cases where you can merely integrate both sides, I somewhat doubt you've brushed over differential equations at 19.  o.O



Altmer said:


> Good maths teaching requires consistent weekly practice. You don't learn maths unless you practice to death. It's really fucking boring to do, but it's the only way.


If your primary method of learning a logically-founded discipline is to beat it into your head, you are Doing It Wrong.


----------



## Ruby (Sep 5, 2008)

goldenquagsire said:


> And when it does, my classmates and I will be celebrating on the streets. Though we may have our differences, we are united by a common hatred of the French language.


Except that they will teach it alongside Latin and Greek!


----------



## Kratos Aurion (Sep 5, 2008)

Eevee said:


> Short of cases where you can merely integrate both sides, I somewhat doubt you've brushed over differential equations at 19.  o.O


No, we didn't do a lot at all; just a few weeks of beginning calculus in senior year. But then again, hippie school doesn't exactly offer a huge variety of classes. What they do teach they teach extremely well, and they give pretty good introductions, at the very least, to what they can't cover in-depth for long periods of time, but I wasn't going to see a lot of that sort of thing until college.

aaah that was a bad explanation but whatever

And at this point I _still_ probably won't see much, given I'm going to art school now.


----------



## Negrek (Sep 5, 2008)

> Short of cases where you can merely integrate both sides, I somewhat doubt you've brushed over differential equations at 19. o.O


She was in calc in high school like me, so we both did them at seventeen/eighteen, actually. Nothing _exciting_, mind, but the very basics of differentials we did cover.

Eevee said more or less what I was going to say (more or more, really), but for those of you who are curious and were spared the horror, the quadratic formula song, most of the variants I've heard are to the tune of "Pop Goes the Weasel," as in this video (if you can even tell what they're saying.)

Edit: Beeeaten. Also, whoever said that history is a worthless subject and should be thrown out... I cry. I don't even _like_ history, but I think it's extremely important anyway. Understanding the patterns that have shaped human civilization over time is critical to preventing people from doing stupid things in the future, if it's at all possible.


----------



## opaltiger (Sep 5, 2008)

> I learnt that in 4th grade


no, in 4th grade it's "length times width equals area". >:(

also uh apparently I will be learning differentiation at the end of this year (junior) and next year is mostly calculus with some statistics and probability thrown in. I've no idea how exciting, but calculus is taught in high school here.


----------



## Kratos Aurion (Sep 5, 2008)

Oh yeaaah! I've heard that before. Never from my teacher, thank god. Probably on TV or something.


----------



## Eevee (Sep 5, 2008)

opaltiger said:


> no, in 4th grade it's "length times width equals area". >:(


Real men _integrate_ to find the area of a rectangle.



opaltiger said:


> and next year is mostly calculus with some statistics and probability thrown in.


Statistics is not math.  >:||||||||||


----------



## Altmer (Sep 5, 2008)

> Differential equations are fucking awesome. DiffEq was the best math class I'd taken in years.


not particularly my favourite

and Eevee I doubt you will remember how to use your maths if you don't use it often, deriving is nice and all that but it takes time and comes more naturally if you practice it often I've found


----------



## goldenquagsire (Sep 5, 2008)

> Except that they will teach it alongside Latin and Greek!


I go to one of the oldest private schools in Britain, and they stopped making Latin, along with ridiculously over-the-top uniforms compulsory years back. There's another two private schools near here, and apparently both are in the same situation. And don't even mention state schools or I will rofl my guts out. :D



> Sounds more like you want to know it, but you want to avoid learning it as much as humanly possible.
> 
> You cannot well learn something you actively don't want to learn or believe you can't learn.


Good advice, I suppose. :/


----------



## Eevee (Sep 5, 2008)

Altmer said:


> and Eevee I doubt you will remember how to use your maths if you don't use it often, deriving is nice and all that but it takes time and comes more naturally if you practice it often I've found


Forgetting something due to disuse is hardly the same as needing to memorize it by mindnumbing repetition in the first place.


----------



## Altmer (Sep 5, 2008)

yeah well eevee you have to know I am a person that leans very strong on memory for cognitive ability; i can memorise anything I want to memorise

of course I also possess insight but I tend be very rigid and structural and use memory to categorise everything

i guess you probably work on insight more


----------



## Ruby (Sep 5, 2008)

goldenquagsire said:


> I go to one of the oldest private schools in Britain, and they stopped making Latin, along with ridiculously over-the-top uniforms compulsory years back. There's another two private schools near here, and apparently both are in the same situation. And don't even mention state schools or I will rofl my guts out. :D


But what about the poor Classicists.  On state schools, let me point out that at the one I have just joined GCSE Latin is compulsory.


----------



## goldenquagsire (Sep 5, 2008)

> But what about the poor Classicists. On state schools, let me point out that at the one I have just joined GCSE Latin is compulsory.


What the.

You don't live on some remote Scottish island that's still in the 1950s, do you?




oh and latin is cool and i would learn it if it wasn't for the fact that they made us take french and my three GCSE options were already pretty much chosen (although in retrospect geography is a bit shit and given this hindsight i would have chosen something else - pooooossibly latin, but perhaps art?).


----------



## Dannichu (Sep 5, 2008)

Because maths is _hard_. D:


----------



## surskitty (Sep 5, 2008)

Dannichu said:


> Because maths is _hard_. D:


This is kind of off-topic but I had the most horrible mental image ever.  Are you aware that there is a talking Barbie doll that says, "Math is _hard_."

because if you are

and you intended for that reference

I am so very disturbed right now.



ffs why would you not want to learn stuff >:|


----------



## Jetx (Sep 5, 2008)

I already know quite a lot about maths, for my age. But man, I hate learning the blasted subject so much that I find it hard to concentrate. It doesn't help that all my previous teachers, especially the one I have now and am stuck with until I finish GCSEs, can't seem to understand that my brain _does not work fast_, not even with easy calculations. I need to think everything through, do it twice, go over what I just did thinking I did it wrong, and then spend even longer writing with my slow, slow hands. Is working fast really important in jobs that use a lot of maths or something?

There's a few people in here who obviously know their stuff when it comes to maths. That's good stuff, but I despise it and can't wait until I don't need to do it any more. Over the course of my life I've gone from Maths being my favourite subject and English being my least to the complete opposite. Even when I do feel like I understand what the teacher is talking about, as soon as I look at some text book all the mathematical symbols and algebraic equations swirl together in a huge mass that hurts my brain. I normally just glance at what the person next to me is doing, figure it out, and then try to do it myself with the rest of the questions :(


----------



## opaltiger (Sep 5, 2008)

Eevee said:


> Statistics is not math.  >:||||||||||


I would be much obliged if you told my school :(


----------



## Murkrow (Sep 5, 2008)

Me too.

*Looks at the massive pile of maths statistics homework I got today. * <_<


----------



## Tailsy (Sep 5, 2008)

goldenquagsire said:


> What the.
> 
> You don't live on some remote Scottish island that's still in the 1950s, do you?


...


----------



## goldenquagsire (Sep 5, 2008)

Welcome to the Future, ancient traveller! Did you know that the internet now comes in tubes?


----------



## Tailsy (Sep 5, 2008)

We recently invented the gaseous form. You're so behind.


----------



## Dannichu (Sep 5, 2008)

surskitty said:


> This is kind of off-topic but I had the most horrible mental image ever.  Are you aware that there is a talking Barbie doll that says, "Math is _hard_."
> 
> because if you are
> 
> ...


Haha, no, but now I'm very, very amused. 

Eh, I don't think being unable to do maths is a huge sin, just like not having perfect spelling is. Why do people think it's okay to be bad at sports? Why do people think it's okay to be awkward in social situations? Nobody's good at everything, and the one thing I think it's _not_ alright to do is to look down on someone because they have a weakness you don't. 

Can you tell it's a sore spot?


----------



## surskitty (Sep 6, 2008)

Bad at maths isn't the issue.  Being bad at maths and unwilling to even try to _not_ be bad at it is, however.


----------



## Dannichu (Sep 6, 2008)

Still, I don't see it as any worse than being bad at drawing but not practicing, being unfit and refusing excersise or being shy and refusing to go out and meet people. 
Everyone has things they're not good and and will only become better with time and effort. A maths genius might not have time to go out and become an athelete, while a professional runner might not have time to learn geometry and it might be that neither of them have bothered to learn to play an instrument. I don't see why one's more acceptable than the other.


----------



## Murkrow (Sep 6, 2008)

Dannichu said:


> Still, I don't see it as any worse than being bad at drawing but not practicing,


I practice drawing plenty, I'm just no good at it anyway. :'( 


Dannichu said:


> being unfit and refusing excersise


Exactly
/massive hypocrite


Dannichu said:


> or being shy and refusing to go out and meet people


That's part of someone's personality, just 'going out' is a pretty big deal.




For me anyway.



Dannichu said:


> Everyone has things they're not good and and will only become better with time and effort.


Unlike my artwork :(


Dannichu said:


> maths genius might not have time to go out and become an athlete, while a professional runner might not have time to learn geometry and it might be that neither of them have bothered to learn to play an instrument. I don't see why one's more acceptable than the other.


I think it's because when you're in school you don't know what you're going to be when you grow up. They want you to be skilled in a lot of things so that you have a lot of job opportunities.


----------



## Kratos Aurion (Sep 6, 2008)

...I know it's impolite to judge people based on their weight and honestly who cares if you play sports, but it _isn't_ a good thing to be unfit and refuse to exercise. It's _not healthy._ Similarly, no one is really expected to go teach college calculus, but... denying yourself the mental exercise by just clamming up and saying "I won't need this for my job at the modeling agency" isn't particularly smart.


----------



## Negrek (Sep 6, 2008)

Dannichu said:


> Still, I don't see it as any worse than being bad at drawing but not practicing, being unfit and refusing excersise or being shy and refusing to go out and meet people.
> Everyone has things they're not good and and will only become better with time and effort. A maths genius might not have time to go out and become an athelete, while a professional runner might not have time to learn geometry and it might be that neither of them have bothered to learn to play an instrument. I don't see why one's more acceptable than the other.


Saying that it isn't acceptable for people to not attempt to learn math doesn't mean that we're also saying that people don't need to worry about exercising or pursuing the arts or whatever. To be a well-rounded and complete individual, you've got to pick up at least the basics on pretty much everything, although how far you want to go with it from there is your prerogative.

For example, I doubt most people would say that not exercising is a good idea. That doesn't mean, however, that you have to become a sports star (or even play a team sport at all!). It's important to have an appreciation for the arts and exercise your creativity, but that doesn't mean you need to become a master sculptor/painter/whatever. Same deal here: you don't need to become someone who could compete in math leagues on an international level, but an understanding of the fundamental concepts that underlie mathematics is important--logical reasoning skills, if absolutely nothing else. It's all right to not be "great" at it, maybe not even "good" at it, but what's important is that you develop those skills as best you can, as they can apply to many different areas of your life, not just math.


----------



## Arylett Charnoa (Sep 6, 2008)

Eevee said:


> I guess if you carry a calculator with you while stocking shelves...
> 
> ...and it's a TI-92 so it can do geometry too...
> 
> ...


I find your tone to be... vaguely condescending... Mmm. 

But anyway, I acknowledged it, I acknowledged that I don't know what I'll need to know for the future. Didn't you read the "what do I know?" 



Arylett Dawnsborough said:


> ...I must be immensely behind then, because I'm learning it in 11th grade.
> 
> Also, I find some of what I'm learning in Geometry to be rather pointless for later in life, *but eh, what do I know?* I'm just saying that I find both Trig and Geometry pointless to learn, which was why I grouped them together. But feel free to disagree with me.


Anyway, what was I saying? Oh yes, I'm not here to argue with you, especially since this isn't the Debating Hall, so yeah. Mmm, I'm a crap debator and I can't argue effectly against your points. So sorry I couldn't be a more worthy opponent.


----------



## Eevee (Sep 6, 2008)

Dannichu said:


> Eh, I don't think being unable to do maths is a huge sin, just like not having perfect spelling is.


...so not having perfect spelling _is_ a sin?



Dannichu said:


> Why do people think it's okay to be bad at sports?


Probably because sports are an arbitrary recreational activity and only one of a multitude of approaches towards goals of (a) entertainment and (b) exercise.



Dannichu said:


> Why do people think it's okay to be awkward in social situations?


It is?



Dannichu said:


> Nobody's good at everything, and the one thing I think it's _not_ alright to do is to look down on someone because they have a weakness you don't.


Who's looking down on anyone for not knowing math?



Arylett Dawnsborough said:


> I find your tone to be... vaguely condescending... Mmm.


Mission accomplished.  8D



Arylett Dawnsborough said:


> Oh yes, I'm not here to argue with you, especially since this isn't the Debating Hall, so yeah. Mmm, I'm a crap debator and I can't argue effectly against your points. So sorry I couldn't be a more worthy opponent.


I win

trophies for me


----------



## Murkrow (Sep 6, 2008)

Eevee, you are way too predictable.
As soon as I read that I thought  'he's gonna say 'I win' or 'Mission accomplished''
...
I wasn't expecting both.


----------



## Arylett Charnoa (Sep 6, 2008)

Eevee said:


> Mission accomplished.  8D
> 
> I win
> 
> trophies for me


Why yes, I must say you accomplished your mission with most scalding wit. 

And I'm very happy for you, my dear~ :D ;;Gives you seven trophies;; Have fun with them~


----------



## ultraviolet (Sep 6, 2008)

Egad. I'm so bad at maths to the point that I think I'm dyslexic or something.


----------



## Furretsu (Sep 6, 2008)

Dyslexic? Nah. You may be thinking of dyscalculia.


----------



## Linzys (Sep 6, 2008)

Furretsu said:


> Dyslexic? Nah. You may be thinking of dyscalculia.


I have been formally diagnosed.

I didn't want to say anything because I thought that people would get all freaked out over my mentioning a learning disability. :B

On a lot of forums people will often pass off even the mention of a mental illness or learning problem as an attempt at getting attention. D:


----------



## Abwayax (Sep 6, 2008)

I think it must be the Illuminati, conditioning the youth to become uneducated so they will blindly accept the coming One World Government.

Anyway you know what discipline actually _doesn't_ have any practical use? Philosophy. You can't do crap with a degree in philosophy, mainly because philosophy is _sooooooo_ Ancient Greece and I don't think anyone really has much stock in philosophers anymore. I know a guy who for whatever reason earned a doctorate in philosophy. He ended up teaching calculus at my school.


----------



## Linzys (Sep 6, 2008)

Sucks that I love philosophy. :B


----------



## OrangeAipom (Sep 6, 2008)

I forgot what the quadratic formula was. D:


----------



## #1 bro (Sep 6, 2008)

Number 100 said:


> Anyway you know what discipline actually _doesn't_ have any practical use? Philosophy. You can't do crap with a degree in philosophy, mainly because philosophy is _sooooooo_ Ancient Greece and I don't think anyone really has much stock in philosophers anymore. I know a guy who for whatever reason earned a doctorate in philosophy. He ended up teaching calculus at my school.


um

philosophy tries to teach you the friggin' _meaning of life_. if that's not useful, I don't know what is.


----------



## Music Dragon (Sep 6, 2008)

But studying Philosophy in school is pointless. Finding meaning in life is something you have to do yourself. People who read the writings of Thomas of Aquino or Kierkegaard and then apply it to their lives - well, maybe they've managed to make themselves feel better or more purposeful or more aware. But in the end, everyone has to develop their own philosophy.


----------



## Cyndaquil (Sep 6, 2008)

Woah.... Haven't been in this thread for a while and blast off! I guess math wouldn't be hard to teach. Considering that I would need to ahem *cough*go farther than I do in my advanced math class*cough* which wouldn't be easy because my math teacher doesn't want us to skip ahead but most of it comes to me naturally so..... I guess if someone else open a thread for it but someone else could do it much better than I could(I know you didn't specifically ask me but it was a sort of volenteering.)


----------



## FMC_x_ANS (Sep 6, 2008)

People are spoiled and thus are annoyed by 'having to learn' stuff. If they lived in an enviroment where they we not given the opportunity, I am sure they would want to.


----------



## s k (Sep 6, 2008)

ArtificialFlavour said:


> I forgot what the quadratic formula was. D:


----------



## #1 bro (Sep 6, 2008)

Cyndaquil said:


> Woah.... Haven't been in this thread for a while and blast off!


This sentence does not make grammatical sense, and the H in haven't should not be capitalized. Additionally, an ellipsis should only have three dots. 



> Considering that I would need to ahem *cough*go farther than I do in my advanced math class*cough* which wouldn't be easy because my math teacher doesn't want us to skip ahead but most of it comes to me naturally so.....


First of all, this is a run-on. Second of all, I don't understand what you are trying to tell me when you say that "you need to ahem". And once again,  an ellipsis should only have three dots. 



> I guess if someone else open a thread for it


This should be "I guess if someone else _could_ open a thread for it". 



> I guess if someone else open a thread for it but someone else could do it much better than I could(I know you didn't specifically ask me but it was a sort of volenteering.)


The first part of the sentence (the bit that's not in parentheses) does not make sense. Also, you need a space between the word "could" and the opening parenthesis. And finally, you spelled "volunteering" wrong.

Once again, _why do people think it ok to not know English_? 




(and yes, I probably made some tiny little grammatical mistake somewhere in this post, and you're going to go ahead and call me out on it, therefore making me look like a hypocrite. But my point still stands. My English might not be perfect, but when I was twelve I could _at least_ type coherently.)

EDIT: wait, why did I think he was twelve. sorry. anyway, I could type in complete sentences when I was eight, so Cyndaquil _still_ has no excuse. although, I guess I was a _bit_ ahead of the curve, but it's still not much to expect that by the time one is ten, one can write a coherent paragraph. if Cyndaquil is younger than ten, he should not be at this forums, due to most of the content not being appropriate for children of that age.


----------



## Abwayax (Sep 7, 2008)

Zeta Reticuli said:


> _meaning of life_


http://www.answers.com/life



Zeta Reticuli said:


> if that's not useful, I don't know what is.


How exactly _would_ you "use" the meaning of life, may I ask?


----------



## #1 bro (Sep 7, 2008)

Number 100 said:


> How exactly _would_ you "use" the meaning of life, may I ask?


To figure out what you want to do with your time on Earth, I suppose.


----------



## Abwayax (Sep 7, 2008)

You need to study philosophy to figure out what you want to do?


----------



## opaltiger (Sep 7, 2008)

also anyone who honestly thinks philosophy is about the meaning of life should probably get an updated definition


----------



## CNiall (Sep 7, 2008)

Maths is easily my favourite subject and I suppose I'm fairly good at it (although ugh new head of maths who thinks we're retards), but most of my class seem to think I'm incredible at it. :\
fairly slow lessons in top group =/= incredible mathematical ability, classmates

Also I worry for anyone who needs a rhyme to remember the quadratic formula--come on, it's not hard. I can partially derive it, but our teacher feels it necessary to write the formula on the board whenever we may need it, which depresses me.


----------



## Music Dragon (Sep 7, 2008)

opaltiger said:


> also anyone who honestly thinks philosophy is about the meaning of life should probably get an updated definition


Well technically, isn't that what it's about? Understanding life?


----------



## opaltiger (Sep 7, 2008)

Music Dragon said:


> Well technically, isn't that what it's about? Understanding life?


No, not really. Philosophy is pretty damn complicated, and yeah, somewhere in there existence is definitely discussed (see: existentialism) but saying that philosophy aims to find the meaning of life is utterly ridiculous. It's only one thing among many.


----------



## Music Dragon (Sep 8, 2008)

opaltiger said:


> No, not really. Philosophy is pretty damn complicated, and yeah, somewhere in there existence is definitely discussed (see: existentialism) but saying that philosophy aims to find the meaning of life is utterly ridiculous. It's only one thing among many.


Well, will you tell me what it's about then?


----------



## Espeon (Sep 8, 2008)

42?

Anyway, to have my say on the maths issue:

I always enjoyed Maths. It had always been a great subject between years 9 and 11. Before that it was okay, except in year eight when we had Mr. Smith. >:(

He was the most boring and sucky teacher ever.

Anyway, after he left, we got a new teacher and he was an /awesome/ maths teacher, if not a bit on the weird side. He had our classes attention the whole time, and we were able to joke around with him and stuff. We had our fair share of in-class jokes, particularly with one pupil who didn't understand that south != downhill.

He was able to present maths in a fun and interesting way to our class and often included pupils in some of the questions he set on the board. If your class had a teacher like that, there'd be no reason for your class to be smirking and smiling about how bad they are at maths when their grades are way behind the national average purely due to their own lack of cooperation with the lesson.

If your friends want to be twats, let them be. You'll be the one laughing when you're being paid a lot more than they are.

</probably already been said.>


----------



## opaltiger (Sep 8, 2008)

Music Dragon said:


> Well, will you tell me what it's about then?


Many things! Knowledge, truth, existence, to name a few.


----------



## Cyndaquil (Sep 9, 2008)

Could you guys stay on topic? The meaning of life isn't exactly my idea of on topic but I have trailed off topic before but... . By the way you don't need to ask to find out the meaning of life. I have my own opinion but you should find it out for yourself.(Trailed of topic oops) Espeon your "cool" teacher sounds alot like one of my favorite teachers in Elementary school that I had.


----------



## surskitty (Sep 9, 2008)

If it's just a related tangent that developed into a new discussion, it's still on topic.


----------



## Music Dragon (Sep 9, 2008)

opaltiger said:


> Many things! Knowledge, truth, existence, to name a few.


Oh right. Because, you know, I sort of filed that under "understanding life". But I guess that's just me.


----------



## Eevee (Sep 9, 2008)

Music Dragon said:


> Oh right. Because, you know, I sort of filed that under "understanding life". But I guess that's just me.


"understanding life" is a sufficiently large umbrella that anything could fit under it


----------



## Music Dragon (Sep 9, 2008)

Eevee said:


> "understanding life" is a sufficiently large umbrella that anything could fit under it


*ponders*

...

Well, maybe so. I don't know. Still, everything I associate philosophy with - knowledge, truth, existence, love, whatever - is, you know, more _central_ to life than, say, physics, literature, music... Still, I suppose "understanding life" is a bad choice of words.


----------



## Eevee (Sep 9, 2008)

given that physics concerns the rules which literally _hold our bodies together_ I would say it's a bit more central than pontificating about the nature of knowledge


----------



## Music Dragon (Sep 9, 2008)

Well sure, but physics isn't actually something you have to know or understand; it applies all the same.


----------



## opaltiger (Sep 9, 2008)

so guys

for what values of _k_ is the straight line _y = kx + 1_ a tangent to the circle _(x-5)^2 + (y-1)^2 = 9_


----------



## Eevee (Sep 9, 2008)

opaltiger said:


> so guys
> 
> for what values of _k_ is the straight line _y = kx + 1_ a tangent to the circle _(x-5)^2 + (y-1)^2 = 9_


any values of k where they intersect at exactly one point

with that in mind, substitute one in the other and solve as a system:

(x - 5)^2 + (y - 1)^2 = 9
(x - 5)^2 + (*kx + 1* - 1)^2 = 9
(x - 5)^2 + (kx)^2 = 9
(x^2 - 10x + 25) + (k^2 x^2) = 9
(k^2 + 1) x^2 - 10x + 16 = 0

for this equation, and thus the whole system, to only have one solution, the discriminant must be zero

so

(-10)^2 - 4(k^2 + 1)(16) = 0
(100) - 4(16k^2 + 16) = 0
25 - 16k^2 - 16 = 0
-16k^2 + 9 = 0
k^2 = 9/16

k = ±3/4



remember kids check your work

but I'm not going to because I'm way lazy



also if you are _interested_ in this but do not _get it_ then fucking ask.  I didn't go into painful detail because I doubted anyone would care and I don't think opal needed me to.  don't glaze over and go SEE THIS IS HARD I DON'T GET IT that drives me crazy argh


----------



## Shiny Grimer (Sep 10, 2008)

> Soon French is going to be as dead as Latin.


wait what

At least I'll know a dead language, then.

I don't think Chinese is going to be the next big language. Japanese was all the rage in '80s, learning it was supposed to be important because Japan would have liek teh bestest economiez evar.
Someone please name some... Chinesaphones outside of China that aren't obscure little countries.

Math... isn't that bad. I liked Geometry. It's too bad I forgot about it. Tanget, Sine, Cosine... all I remember is tan = side a/ hypothesis and then the others were variations of that. Whatever. Sine/Cosine/Tangent was an easy part of the class. For some reason, I hated volume and stuff. Algebra was a horrible class. I blame the teacher, students, and materal. _ugh_

I know math is useful, but practicing it is extremely boring. I despise going over math works. I'm learning about set theory and friends right.

History is extremely cool. Same goes for Language arts, languages (if only they weren't so hard to learn :( ), and some sciences.


----------



## opaltiger (Sep 10, 2008)

> Math... isn't that bad. I liked Geometry. It's too bad I forgot about it. Tanget, Sine, Cosine... all I remember is tan = side a/ hypothesis and then the others were variations of that. Whatever. Sine/Cosine/Tangent was an easy part of the class. For some reason, I hated volume and stuff. Algebra was a horrible class. I blame the teacher, students, and materal. ugh


Trigonometric functions are trigonometry, not geometry. :( Also: hypotenuse. Plus tangent is opposite over adjacent so uh.


----------



## Shiny Grimer (Sep 10, 2008)

Oh wow, I can't remember a single thing about that. And I mispelled hypotenus, too.

Well, we learned other things that were geometric so it's all good, right?


----------



## CNiall (Sep 10, 2008)

... said:


> Oh wow, I can't remember a single thing about that. And I mispelled hypotenus, too.


And again. :V (also sohcahtoa)


----------



## Evolutionary (Sep 11, 2008)

Strange, I'm very good at maths but hate it. Well I got a Distintion in a test that the whole country did [people my age]. If oyou don't know Distintion is top 10%. Why do I have to hate maths. Really why.

From EeveeSkitty


----------



## Shiny Grimer (Sep 11, 2008)

I hate my ability to draw typos out of nowhere.

HYPOTENUSE.

Did I get right THIS time?

Anyways, learning math is important. Why? Well, if people didn't know math, we couldn't have such cool computers. There's also a whole bunch of other important math-related things. Making a rocket would have taken a lot longer if we hadn't known math and it's corollaries and stuff (and an understanding of physics, but it helps if you know math, right?).


----------

