# The LGBT Club



## ZimD

This got destroyed so I'm re-making it. Uh... yay? I don't remember the rules, but just don't be mean to anyone or anything.

I guess just act as if this was the old one.


Member list:

Zim Del Invasor
Dragon_night
Sireafi
Jolty
Dannichu
NWT
Gardevoir Girl
OrngSumb
Timmy
AuroraKing
Mhaladie
Irksplee
Spaekle Oddberry
Vladimir Putin's LJ
goldenquagsire
Jack_the_PumpkinKing
Flazeah
Zora of Termina
Salamander
Cirrus
Harlequin
EvilCrazyMonkey
Verne
Tiggy
Arylett Dawnsborough
Alexi
Proto_Fan
Full Metal Cookies
Kaito
Angua
Alliniere
Mr Marzipan
Koji
Wilcox
Dark_star
Kinova
Furiianda
Catch-22
Chimera 
Dinru
Aobaru	
Jason-Kun
Ayame
Buizelfan61393	
xxxbloodysoul666xxx
Ruffledfeathers
Animorph
Dewgong
Melodic Harmony
Tsukuyomi
L'il Dwagie
Wyvern


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## Dragon_night

Well, I never got around to becoming a member last time, so I'm joining this time as a member, please and thank you.


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## ZimD

You've been added.


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## Sireafi

I don't think their should be two separate lists, members who are and supporters who... support. If they join this club, they obviously care for LGBT on some level and it just seems "wrong" to separate the list of members.

So anyway. Let's start gaying.


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## ZimD

That's just how it was before, but I never really liked it so I'm just going to make them combined now that I can. I'll assume you want to be added to the list?


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## Sireafi

Oh yeah.


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## Jolty

Join plz? D:


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## ZimD

You've been added to the list. =D


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## Dannichu

Joiiiiiin~

*flourish*

I can't help but be relived that the only one was destroyed, though.
My earliest posts make me _cringe._


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## ZimD

Yay! [adds you to the list]

So... Should the gaying start?


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## nyuu

I'll join. I got here late, there were about 40 pages to sort through (note I hate 50 posts per page, so...quite a bit. I'm relived as well)
so.... congratulations you'll get to hear about my life occasionally


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## ZimD

Added to the list. [random bi comment to start gaying here]


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## OrngSumb

I guess I'll join. I got lost in the old thread X_X


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## Timmy

Join please? |D Flaming homo here!


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## Furretsu

*Joins.*


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## Mhaladie

Uh, I don't think I ever officially joined before but I'd post occasionally so yay. I suppose I'm here now, right? Right. And that means I'm joining, huzzah.


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## IrkSplee

Joining~

OK, 17, horribly confused between B and L, big conversation regarding homosexuality vs. homoromanticism, recently confused the spit out of two friends because I felt like explaining in that much detail would be TMI (and yet I do it on Internet forums. EXPLAIN.) Yep.

I LIKE GIRLS. Has the gaying begun yet?


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## Jolty

If we're starting the gaying
I get to meet my epic girlfriend in 9 days (lulz internets D:)

We're gonna be huge fags infront of my sister, who thinks said girlfriend is a boy :D


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## spaekle

I'm a manly man who has boobs but let's not talk about that who likes other men. 

Join? :D


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## Dannichu

IrkSplee said:


> Has the gaying begun yet?


Waitwaitwait, hang on a sec~







Okay, go.


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## Timmy

Jolty said:


> If we're starting the gaying
> I get to meet my epic girlfriend in 9 days (lulz internets D:)
> 
> We're gonna be huge fags infront of my sister, who thinks said girlfriend is a boy :D


I plan to scar your sister for life.
Be prepared. :B


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## Vladimir Putin's LJ

I'm an annoying fag hag can I join


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## goldenquagsire

When I joined the last one, I was merely a vaguely-confused supporter. Now, I join as an almost-certain bi. How times have changed...


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## JackPK

*rejoins*

Excuse me while I lurk now.


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## Flazeah

Joining. Again. Lesbian here. :D


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## Mhaladie

Dannichu said:


> Waitwaitwait, hang on a sec~
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Okay, go.


You win.

Uh, except that I have nothing gay to talk about so never mind.


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## Zora of Termina

Can I join as a strong supporter and possibly bi? I don't know if I am, and have been confused about it for months, but if it turns out I'm not (I AM mostly attracted to males as it is, please notice the mostly oh i don't know what i'm talking about D:), I'd just like to be a supporter.


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## Keltena

[generic "hi, joining again" text]

Zora, you absolutely _cannot_ join. I can't believe you'd even _suggest_ such a thing. _Sheesh._


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## Minish

*JOINS*

I'm pan/bi/gay. 8D Oh and I obviously support LGBT~ Me and my friend want to go down to London Pride one day if my mum'll let me (probably not, instead of the usual 'but there are bad men in London who want to MOLEST YOU' she'll start saying 'but there are bad women in London who want to MOLEST YOU')


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## Dragon_night

Ya know what? My best friend dated me for two days before wanting to be 'just friends' (in my sig is a conversation via MSN) And no matter what, I can't seem to get completely over him. Seeing him everyday doesn't help >_>

And then he's helping me ask out this girl I like. Although, since that's not going to work out because she can't, I'm just stuck with having to see him everyday, and sleeping over at his house. 

So yeah, that's my gay/bi-ness for ya (I just want him D:< )


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## Harlequin

hooray for gays

edit@cirrus

WELL I guess you could always say "o hay momfigure i eat babies; lesbians are no match for me" and see what she says. Or just go without permission, you know.


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## Dannichu

Surely your mother wouldn't mind if you went with someone? Aw, that's so unfair~


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## Harlequin

Pride isn't that great, anyway. It's far too gay for my liking.


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## Keltena

Someone pointed this out on Gaia, and I had to share it~

Do a Google search for anything like 'gay', 'bisexual', 'transsexual', 'lgbt'... and look at the space on the right next to the ads. =D


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## Dragon_night

Gee, nothing but local gay/bi sex with some commercials >_>

I think I'll watch some ;)


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## surskitty

Why did you forget asexuality again?  :'[


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## nyuu

Because there are only 3 types of people: gay straight and bi - isn't it obvious?


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## surskitty

I hate not existing.  :'[


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## Jolty

My sibs are all "HEY MUM, REBECCA'S BOYFRIEND'S COMING TO OUR HOUSE NEXT WEEK"

its gonna be hilarious when they see she's _not_ a boy


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## Timmy

Jolty said:


> My sibs are all "HEY MUM, REBECCA'S BOYFRIEND'S COMING TO OUR HOUSE NEXT WEEK"
> 
> its gonna be hilarious when they see she's _not_ a boy


Oh dear frog god, I can't wait to see their reactions. I bet they won't shut up about it all weekend. :T

YOU'LL NEVER LIVE IT DOWN, BECCA


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## Jolty

Timmy said:


> Oh dear frog god, I can't wait to see their reactions. I bet they won't shut up about it all weekend. :T
> 
> YOU'LL NEVER LIVE IT DOWN, BECCA


Ben will probably be "...NATHAN'S A GIRL??? oh well there's still Max"
and I have no idea how Melon will react

also who tf is Max


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## Timmy

Jolty said:


> Ben will probably be "...NATHAN'S A GIRL??? oh well there's still Max"
> and I have no idea how Melon will react
> 
> also who tf is Max


Lmao Ben
Also I am sort of scared of Melon's possible reactions D:

... WASN'T THERE A GUY AT YOUR SCHOOL CALLED MAX ONCE


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## Jolty

Timmy said:


> Lmao Ben
> Also I am sort of scared of Melon's possible reactions D:
> 
> ... WASN'T THERE A GUY AT YOUR SCHOOL CALLED MAX ONCE


Yes
He's still there
I used to liek him
and then I began to think "wow he's a dick :("

But how Ben knows of his existance I'll NEVER know

also we may be spamming the shit out of this topic


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## Jolty

Gardevoir Girl said:


> All right, if anyone is willing, I need a little help.
> 
> There's this girl who I've probably mentioned a few times. She was my best friend when I was ten, and I realized a few months ago that I loved her. Now I'm thinking about getting back in contact with her, and I want to tell her how I feel. And, if that goes well, I want to ask her out. But, first things first; I'm quite sure she'll be freaked out by finding out I like her in that way, and I want to break it to her gently. But I don't know how to do that! Any suggestions? Pleeease help...
> 
> ~GG~


Well don't tell her right away, I mean like you haven't talked to her in ages
Try and become her friend again first before telling her how you feel, and when you do just like... I dunno really, I'm crap at telling people how I feel :B I just make huge hints lol


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## EvilCrazyMonkey

*Join*

I could care less about my orientation. If I love a guy, I love a guy. If I love a girl, I love a girl. Plain and simple.


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## Dragon_night

You know what, I found this comic today, and I just have to show it to you guys.







How's that for gaying it up :P


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## Harlequin

Jolty said:


> My sibs are all "HEY MUM, REBECCA'S BOYFRIEND'S COMING TO OUR HOUSE NEXT WEEK"
> 
> its gonna be hilarious when they see she's _not_ a boy


I'm actually planning on doing that, except mine's going to involve nipple clamps, whipped cream and the dining room table.


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## EvilCrazyMonkey

Harlequin said:


> I'm actually planning on doing that, except mine's going to involve nipple clamps, whipped cream and the dining room table.


If only I had a boyfriend to do that with.


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## Dragon_night

> I'm actually planning on doing that, except mine's going to involve nipple clamps, whipped cream and the dining room table.


I'm so jealous ;~;


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## nyuu

Dragon_night said:


> I'm so jealous ;~;


Really? I'm a bit concerned. /nipple clamps/


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## Minish

We had fun terrorising younger kids at school. :D

'What are you doing in here?'
'Having sex.'
'OMG R U ALL LESBIANS'
'Totally, maaate.'
'OMG THEY R ALL LESBIANS!'

And then we sort of threw loads of facts at them after a while, like saying:

'How many friends do you have?'
'UHH I don't COUNT them how sad do you think I AM'
'Over ten?'
'Yeah'
'Then it's highly likely that at least one of your friends are gay. You're such a bad friend! :/'
'. . .*stunned silence*

Which reminds me of the other week, when someone was teaching us about jail in R.E., and the teacher said something like: 'So just imagine this situation. You're in a jail cell, and there's someone in there - he's been in jail six times before, has a gun hidden from the guards and even worse he's gay, haha now I bet you're going to be careful now!'

And then at the end of class I went, 'Sir, you do realise you just mortally offended at least three people in this room?' and he sort of went '...DON'TSUEME'

8D It was awesome~


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## octobr

HEEEEY YOU GUUUUUYS Look at me all posting in this after five days of it being dead. What can I say, I like this place. (Oh, I guess I should go 'I join' then. Huh.)

I got my hair cut, relevantly! Nice and short now, but I need it trimmed already because it's growing out over my eyes and a little low on my neck. And some cop apparently called me a boy yesterday, which is always good. 

My mom keeps calling me strange names like Sage and Nick. Wtf.

And that's all I got.


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## goldenquagsire

> My mom keeps calling me strange names like *Sage*


WTF I WANNA BE CALLED SAGE.



> and *Nick*. Wtf.


This is awesome. You know why.


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## Dannichu

Welcome back~
It's not the same without you D:
Your new hair sounds very cool; pictures!
Also - Nick is a good name. And Sage is a pretty good last name, too. Kinda weird as a first one, but awesome as a last one :D


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## octobr

Pictures hurr I love this game. And hats and look I smile. (funny -- the middle picture was taken on a different day but I was wearing the same shirt. I really like this shirt.)



Nick is ok but I don't really like sage. Mom just wants to call me Nick because my middle name is Nicole. Do you guys know how _hard_ naming yourself is? 

At one point mom tried to call me Sal. I would have none of that.

AND HAAAAY you two. c8


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## Dannichu

Aww, those are great. The smiley one is pretty, but I wouldn't be able to tell which gender you are in the first one :D

Hehe, Sal. J00 n00bs. 

Also (I don't know why my posts are so fragmented today) your avatar oh-so-sligntly scares me.


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## goldenquagsire

I've got a whole book of names I want to call myself, but can't due to either 1) they're female names, or 2) they're foreign names or 3) my parents won't let me. So much for Vincent Rebecca Charlotte Manfred Tobias Lloyd Euphemia Hellsing Lichtenstein the Third. D:

also hi!


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## octobr

Greatest name ever. XD 

And Danni -- awesome 8D That's the point. 

And oh god i didn't even think of him


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## Harlequin

shorthair Verne looks like a male, longhair Verne looks like a female

hm

also if I was ever a woman I'd name myself Emma. Because.


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## Deretto

Your hat is ownage. It's a little hard to tell your gender.

As for me. I enjoy my life here in new york with my boyfriend. Being gay is fun. <3


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## octobr

Heh, thanks guys.


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## Deretto

I notice that I appear more stereotypically gay, and even my voice. I hate it. *strangles self in attempt to change his voice*

Gah! That doesn't work...


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## Dragon_night

> Remember the friend I wanted to call?
> 
> Today I picked up the phone. I dialled the number I've had memorized for the past nine years. And I found out that she no longer lives there.
> 
> After longing to throw the phone out the window and scream, but managing to resist, I'm preparing to start tracking her down. I know which school she goes to, I think she still lives in my local area, so I'm going to find her. No matter what it takes, I'll find her.
> 
> ~GG~


Ouch. Hope you can find her soon, and good luck on it.


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## Vladimir Putin's LJ

Hey guys.
So. Do you want to hear a dumb post filled with shitty introspection and angst, with a possible hint of offensiveness?
Awesome.

I think I want to be a boy. Let's hear what lead to this probably retarded conclusion.
I feel kind of queasy typing this. Back when I was little, from six to nine years old, I used to play Families or Princess and Prince with other girls in my class. Since I was always taller and I had a pretty deep voice for a little girl I always played the male role, and I liked it. I don’t now why, it felt right being the guy. Even though my mum dressed me up in, well, dresses, I found them pretty but ignored the fact that I had them on.
I always get my hair cut when I go to Portugal, a couple of inches, always kept it below the shoulders. Recently though, I’ve wanted to cut it short, not skinhead or anything, sort of like Verne, I think.
Still on the ‘WHEN I WAS younger’ topic, I was getting my hair cut and when my aunt asked what length I wanted it, I just told her to cut it short. I don’t know why, I just felt like it’d suit me and when she was done I felt it looked good and I liked it.
When my mum showed up she had a fit and didn’t take pictures until my hair was around the length it was before.

When I first started getting boobs, I was pretty annoyed. I didn’t like them. They hurt when I tried to run and it just felt strange, especially when my mum told me to get a bra. I flat out refused at first, even though I knew it’d be more convenient, I just didn’t like the thought. Same thing when I first got my period, though I didn’t offer any resistance to a pad since it would’ve been really messy otherwise. I always thought boys had it easy, they didn’t have periods and they could take off their shirts when it was hot. I wished I could take off my shirt. I wished I didn’t have boobs, or periods.

I don’t remember anything special from that time, so skipping ahead two or three years. When I read about how girls and boys worked, I was just embarrassed and didn’t think about it much. But a bit after, I started to get really envious. I wanted a boy part too. After I grew up and discovered ~the joys of porn~, I wanted it more. For a bit I considered the thought that I might be bi or a lesbian or something, especially since I’m so interested in LGBT matters, but I dismissed that thought pretty quickly. I definitely like boys, but I can’t picture wanting sex with one as a girl, like. The whole ‘putting things into my vajayjay’ thing seems a bit weird, but only if I apply it to myself.

Aaaaand once I was retarded enough to cry like a bitch about not being a guy. /dumb. I don’t mind wearing skirts or dresses too much,  but my mum really has to force me into it, and then I feel dumb. I hate exposing my  body and wear clothes that cover everything except my face, neck and arms. The idea of wearing stuff that shows off my cleavage makes me reel, and when a boy in my class once told me ‘you should’ve been born a guy’, I thought he was right.
I wish the clothes I like would fit right.
When someone once mistook me for a boy, I felt I should’ve been mad, but instead I was pretty comfortable with it.

Haha, I nearly cried like three times while writing this I suck. It probably isn’t anything anyway, I must have regular Penis Envy or it’s the hormones or something, I don’t know.
Maybe it isn’t.

I’m pretty fucking confused. And now I’m crying.

Sorry if I offended the real transsexual people, I’m a dumbass.

And no, for once in my life, I'm not trolling.


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## Dannichu

_Wow_. I'm not sure how to respond to that, but what you said was so awesome and brave and things, I'm gonna try anyway. 

I'm with you on the hating developing boobs/period thing. I remember hating everything about puberty; loads of my female friends were happy that they were becoming teenagers, but everything about it made me feel ill and uncomfortable (in the "I don't ever want to talk about this with anyone" way, not the "ow, cramps" way). For me, though, I think it was a major unwillingness to grow up. Growing up meant responsibility and change; two things that I still don't cope with very well. 
I also managed to connect everything back to sex (especially periods, which I was disgusted with myself for having), which at the time absolutely terrified me (to be honest, het sex still does).

I also feel very uncomfortable wearing feminine clothes, especially if it means showing a lot of skin, but again it's probably more to do with hating gender roles and being self-conscious than gender identity. 

From your post, I guess you have a lot on your mind that you don't really want to go and talk to people you know IRL about. I know there are some sites with lots about transgenderism, and most sociology books deal with issues of sex and gender (admittedly more from a scientific than personal standpoint), which is handy because you can make up any excuse for a sociology text, but less so for a book "So you think you're a man?" or whatever those self-help books about this are called.

And yes. Like I said, I’m not terribly good at this, but I wanted to say _something_.

Most of all, good luck with everything.


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## octobr

> When I first started getting boobs, I was pretty annoyed. I didn’t like them. They hurt when I tried to run and it just felt strange, especially when my mum told me to get a bra. I flat out refused at first, even though I knew it’d be more convenient, I just didn’t like the thought. Same thing when I first got my period, though I didn’t offer any resistance to a pad since it would’ve been really messy otherwise. I always thought boys had it easy, they didn’t have periods and they could take off their shirts when it was hot. I wished I could take off my shirt. I wished I didn’t have boobs, or periods.


This is totally how I felt. A lot of guys say 'I felt sick' or that they totally hated what was going on -- I didn't freak out, but I didn't like it. It was just like there was something separating the body and me. 



> I don’t mind wearing skirts or dresses too much, but my mum really has to force me into it, and then I feel dumb.


You're going to need to talk to your mom about that, because even if you _were_ totally comfortable with being a girl that's still rude. (Speaking from experience -- my dad would ask me to go to cool things for his company, right, and then I'd find out the catch was that I would have to wear a dress. I never did end up at any of those kick-offs)



> Haha, I nearly cried like three times while writing this I suck. It probably isn’t anything anyway, I must have regular Penis Envy or it’s the hormones or something, I don’t know.
> Maybe it isn’t.
> 
> I’m pretty fucking confused. And now I’m crying.
> 
> Sorry if I offended the real transsexual people, I’m a dumbass.


Hormones might make you confused, but I doubt they'd make you cry. 

I wish I could say VLADIMIR I NOW PRONOUNCE YOU A TRANSSEXUAL or even better, I now pronounce you just a little hormonal, but I can't do that. The most I can say is it sounds like you're definitely... confused. It sounds to me like you might be trans, but transsexuality is an _incredibly_ personal journey. You have to decide a hell of a lot for yourself, which sucks, because in something like this, the most confused one is you. You're going to have to feel yourself out, so to say, and decide where you're comfortable. Right now the most you might want to do is toss around the idea of being trans, which is ok. Or you might want to dive in and try it out and see it it's what makes you feel good. 

This in itself is a huge step. I mean, vocalizing (even over teh interwebz) that you're confused. It's pretty nervewracking. But I'm going to tell you one of the things I was told when I first found some internuts help -- " Don't feel like you have to qualify yourself and out yourself as Trans or say things like 'I'm not really a real guy ...' Yes, you are really a real guy. If you want to come out as Trans, more power to you, but don't feel like you have to..."

Basically if you're going to try this, you're taking it seriously, so treat yourself seriously. Don't say 'I'm not a real' anything. Because you _are_ real, just as real as the next person. 




You're lucky that you have a few people here to talk to. You remind me of me, sorta nervous and prompted to insult yourself in case no one else took you seriously, feeling a little like you don't qualify because you didn't do any of the insisting-you're-a-boy-when-you're-like-three things. By all means please keep coming to tcod's lgbt club.

And I'll hook you up with some more links too.

If you've got an lj, or if you're willing to make one -- http://community.livejournal.com/ftm/ these guys are incredible, since they're responsible, smart, but also 'feeling themselves out' and amateur. They will treat you as you should be treated, seriously and politely, and won't do things like tell you you're not a real transsexual (so you're gonna have to stop doing that too if you think you are a real one =P).
http://t-vox.org/index.php?title=Main_Page A link I was given when I came out (ironically on the above lj community). I can't believe I never went there. 
http://transfamily.org/ A general trans-support page. 

If you go to any large forums (like I go to go gaia) usually they have some form of lgbt club. It's always good to have other people helping too.



Ok, that was long too. But I applaud you for even coming out here since that's sort of a leap in itself. Don't be afraid to continually pester us for help, that's what we're here for. XD I feel like a school counselor or something.

OH ONE MORE THING _don't_ feel obligated to act one way or another, like totally boyish if you are feeling more comfortable that way or girly cute if it so happens that it's just hormones. Just feel as you think is comfortable. Like I said earlier, this experience -- hell, this entire age group -- is a huge self-discovery personal-journey sorta thing. 



And crying is ok. Crying is always ok. We all cry. 





Especially when I see stupid commercials like this Flawless deodorant crap where the chick can't act. I cry huge tears.


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## Jolty

I mostly wear clothes that aren't girlish or boyish. Also bras are a bit annoying but not wearing them is more irritating for me cuz my tits are like an AKWARD size, they're small but not so small as they don't cause inconveniences >:|

Btw hugging girls is greaaaat
That's not going to go down very well is it


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## Timmy

I hope you figure this out, Putin. Verne's advice is great, follow it, srsly.
I'm a member of a Transexual/Transgender forum, everyone there is really supportive and such. If you wanted I could link you to it. :x

Also guys I am dumb and this seems like an appropriate time to ask, what is it called when you don't consider yourself either gender and switch between calling yourself female and male?



> Btw hugging girls is greaaaat
> That's not going to go down very well is it


what'chu talking 'bout, becca


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## spaekle

Damn, listen to Verne. That helped me too. :]

The odd thing about the hair issue is I never particularly wanted it cut short until just recently. Now I can't stand it being below my chin, and it's down to my shoulders now and pissing me off. When I was younger I actually liked it long.

I always hated any talk of how the female body worked, pregnancy, et cetera, couldn't stand talking about it happening to me, and just generally got really embarrassed and awkward about the whole thing. It was a subject I avoided altogether. When I actually started thinking about myself having sex, I tended to get pretty "eeeennnhhh" about it, with the whole vagina thing. I never even could work up the balls to stick something up there, because after a while I'd just get disturbed and grossed out. Boobs were annoying and over-sensitive and got in the way too much. I always liked wearing sports bras that made me look flat. I still do, actually. :V

Dresses are just no. No skirts, no really short shorts. I was more or less forced into a skirt about a month ago and came home incredibly emo and pissed off. 

My hobbies were mostly gender-neutral things like Pokemon and video games and drawing. I liked things like robots and dinosaurs, too, but my parents often wouldn't buy those things for me because "they were for boys", wtf. When my guy friend's little sister forced us to play house, I'd always be one of the kids so we could still play with our Digimon toys. I was always MetalGreymon and he was always MegaKabuterimon and it was great.

Funny but possibly TMI thing from when I was little; once, when we were all just figuring out what penises and vaginas were, all the neighborhood kids decided to show theirs to each other for some reason.  I saw some kid's dick and was like "dude, how'd it get like that? :O" thought it was totally awesome, and thought maybe I could get an operation or something so mine could be like that too. Haha. 

But, yeah, there are websites and whatnot with advice for this sort of thing, although there seems to be more for MTFs than FTMs. (Although the former is apparently much more common.) I couldn't find a single "So you think you might be FTM?" quiz, but like five for MTFs. :( I did take one (the COGIATI) kind of backwards just to get an idea, and I scored as a "feminine male" which would equal out to "probable transsexual", which sounds about right. But you can't really let a computer make a decision like this for you.

damn it, my ice cream sandwich is melty now. :(

Edit @ Timmy: There are terms like "genderqueer" and "androgynous" and whatnot, and some people just simply don't want to be confined to a gender at all. I guess it's just a matter of what you see yourself. Eh, I'll wiki it.


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## octobr

> I liked things like robots and dinosaurs, too


who doesn't like robots and dinosaurs 8DD


Yeah, it's very frustrating that the COGIATI really only works one way. But then, the quizzes can't tell you any, as most can't -- you don't take quizzes purely unless you don't know what the results are, you try to get your 'favorite' answer. 

And yeah, genderqueer, androgyne, etc. are what we consider to have no gender/both genders. 




Relevantly I ... have done really little work on getting myself more comfortable. I've gotten my hair cut but what I really want is a freaking therapist. But guess who has all the money and power in the family, and who isn't helping me at all! Mom. 

Sigh.


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## Timmy

Spaekle Oddberry said:


> Edit @ Timmy: There are terms like "genderqueer" and "androgynous" and whatnot, and some people just simply don't want to be confined to a gender at all. I guess it's just a matter of what you see yourself. Eh, I'll wiki it.





Verne said:


> And yeah, genderqueer, androgyne, etc. are what we consider to have no gender/both genders.


Thanks for clearing that up for me, it has been bugging me for ages. :x


----------



## Vladimir Putin's LJ

Thanks you guys, that was really nice. I'll check out your links, Verne, you know what you're talking about.

Haha, when I was little I used to pretend to be Spiderman and all my Barbie girls were Amazons who fought against the giant plush animals or the giant plastic Spiderman. Then they had only one Ken and had to fight like Hell for him to be their boyfriend and stuff :B

I have therapist. I asked mum if I could go to one because I wantd to see what it was like. I haven't really talked about this with her before, especially since she once told me that gay people aren't born gay but become gay at like 9 or 10 and then can't ever be changed, but I could talk to her about it a little.

I'll also try to talk my parents into letting me get my hair cut. If it succeeds I'll have short hair in about a month, which would be really cool.
Oh god I just remembered I'm going to have to wear a swimming costume these next three days. It's one of the things that make me feel most uncomfortable. Goddamnit dad why did you choose the beach for our vacation ):<


----------



## octobr

I love having short hair. It's so fun.


And swimsuits? Throw a t-shirt and short over them, swim in those. Just buy a set specifically for swimming. *shrugs*


----------



## Dannichu

Haha, I only ever had one Barbie (given to me by someone who clearly didn't know me well) and I just chewed her feet off. X3


----------



## Arylett Charnoa

I'll be rejoining this club, yes. (Dannichu, XD)

Hey Strangy, I hope things go well for you. I wish you the best of luck. :D

Um, what else can I say? Well, I am under a bit of pressure here to turn out "straight." Why? My sister. She's bisexual. Mostly likes boys. Used to have a girlfriend, they broke up, now she's back with her exboyfriend. I'm glad they broke up, because now my mom doesn't bitch anymore about how being gay is wrong. But I think she sees my sister as "unstable", as in, she'll go back to girls anytime. 

So she's depending on me to "pass on the family genes, because your sister's a screw up". But um, I'm a little whoo, who knows? I don't really know what I am, but there is one thing very certain. IT IS NOT STRAIGHT. I could be bisexual, I could be lesbian, which one, I don't know yet. But I can't just like boys only, I'm sorry, it isn't in me. She doesn't know this, of course, for if she did, you'd be certain she'd say: "You're just confused. It's your sister, isn't it? She turned you over to the gay side. Don't listen to her, she's just crazy." 

Only one who knows is my friend, because apparently it's SO obvious. I give her "funny looks" according to her. Looks of lust, she says. I'm unsure of my feelings towards her, I'm afraid I'm just so confused, I always mix up platonic with those feelings. 

Oh boy, is she going to be dissapointed. Fortunately, I'm getting a therapist soon (this is a small part of the reason, but there are other reasons that I am getting one. Anxiety issues, mainly.) so maybe they can help me sort things out. I hope.


----------



## spaekle

Damn it, I hate pressure from parents to "pass on the family genes" and bullcrap like that. In the end, why does it even matter? 

lol, Barbies. I had some Barbies, but I'd play with them for like a day and then not care about them any more. I also had a dollhouse with plastic dolls, but they were mortal enemies with the other plastic dolls from the camper playset and sometimes could fly. And when I was really little, I was fond of pretending to be these flambouyant European men in frilly clothing and with weird names. Younger than that, I was a friendly vampire man who everyone wanted to kill for some reason. Hmm.

Also the spatula from my toy kitchen wanted to kill me. I don't remember why. And I also had a toy grill that things usually ended up dying on. I was an interesting kid.

Edit: I've been very casually trying to hint at what's wrong with me, but it's not really working. No way in hell I'm completely coming out until I'm well out of the house, because my parents are conservative stick-up-their-ass Republicans who don't even approve of interracial marriage.


----------



## Mhaladie

Arylett Dawnsborough said:


> I'm unsure of my feelings towards her, I'm afraid I'm just so confused, I always mix up platonic with those feelings.


Me too, Arylett, me too. I can't tell the difference between platonic/romantic feelings most of the time and it really is quite annoying.

And Strangy, I know everyone's pretty much said this already, but it really was so brave of you to put all that out there, and good luck with figuring stuff out and everything.


----------



## Dannichu

Arylett said:
			
		

> So she's depending on me to "pass on the family genes, because your sister's a screw up". But um, I'm a little whoo, who knows?
> 
> Oh boy, is she going to be dissapointed.





			
				Spaekle said:
			
		

> Damn it, I hate pressure from parents to "pass on the family genes" and bullcrap like that. In the end, why does it even matter?
> 
> I've been very casually trying to hint at what's wrong with me, but it's not really working. No way in hell I'm completely coming out until I'm well out of the house, because my parents are conservative stick-up-their-ass Republicans who don't even approve of interracial marriage.


God, I don't envy you guys. I remember my mum telling me ages ago that she never expects children from me; I can remember from the earliest age that I have memories that I never wanted children... or a boyfriend/husband X3

The cool thing about growing up with male friends; you climb trees, break bones and beat each other up instead of playing mummies and daddies.


----------



## octobr

I used to play with barbies (and polly pockets, I have a billion of those from when they were literally pocket-sized, itty bitty things). Just as often as I would play with legos and hotwheels, though.

But then, I'm trying to pretend most of my childhood ~never happened~, so.

Also I might just maybe have a therapist! Which is good news.


----------



## Harlequin

you transpeople are clogging up the thread with ... well it's certainly not with _gay_. =[ FOR THE RECORD I think I shall have to say this:

note to self: stop having sexual fantasies about a) straight boys, b) straight boys who are your friends and c) straight boys who you are most often around whilst drunk.

I HAVE PROBLEMS but then again you guys have it worse than I do so um have some cookies or something? 

[nah, I really do hope everything works out because it kind of sucks that you were born in the sex or whatever. I am happy to say that I like my penis. also dannichu I know why _I'm_ awake this late but why are you?]


----------



## octobr

By the by, my newly found transquestioning friends, have you read Venus Envy, Transe-Generation, or Lean on Me? I like them all. Although two of them are mostly mtf. And transe-genertaion is ftm but has no long plot.

*PLAGUING THE GAY WITH THE TRANS* trans beam go

⚥⚥⚥⚥->->->->->->->->->->->->->->->->->->->->


or something.


----------



## Harlequin

GAY BEAMS ARE FAR MORE POWERFUL THAN YOUR TRANSBEAMS *PSHEW PSHEW*

Also I have a question. Do you guys find that you receive more acceptance within the gay community [ugh stupid phrase] than without? because sometimes gays are even more xenophobic than those silly people who breed.


----------



## spaekle

Well, most of the people I've talked to about this have been either gay or bi, and they've all been pretty okay with it. I'm not incredibly loud about it, though, so I wouldn't know. 

...I'm gay on the inside. :(

Ah, are these webcomics about transgenderism? That's pretty cool. I shall check them out.


----------



## Arylett Charnoa

Spaekle Oddberry said:


> Damn it, I hate pressure from parents to "pass on the family genes" and bullcrap like that. In the end, why does it even matter?
> 
> Edit: I've been very casually trying to hint at what's wrong with me, but it's not really working. No way in hell I'm completely coming out until I'm well out of the house, because my parents are conservative stick-up-their-ass Republicans who don't even approve of interracial marriage.





Dannichu said:


> God, I don't envy you guys. I remember my mum telling me ages ago that she never expects children from me; I can remember from the earliest age that I have memories that I never wanted children... or a boyfriend/husband X3


Dear god, Spaekle, I feel sorry for you. They don't approve of interracial marriage? What? (Although, I don't think my mom would be happy if I got together with/married someone who wasn't white. It's like, she doesn't care if OTHER people do it, but if anybody in this family does it, dammit, it's wrong! She feels that way about gays/bisexuals too, I hate that attitude.)

Parents want to pass on the family genes so they can have a legacy, even if they die. They're anxious, they have to ensure the next generation after mine or else the line will die out. It's weird, yeah. But my parents are traditional and they want their legacy preserved!



Mhaladie said:


> Me too, Arylett, me too. I can't tell the difference between platonic/romantic feelings most of the time and it really is quite annoying.


It REALLY is annoying, isn't it? She thinks I'm gay for her. I don't know, though. I had a dream that I kissed her, on the lips. Maybe I am, grah, I wish I knew! It seems so obvious because I had that dream, but it's really not. And even if it turned out that I did have feelings for her like that, I STILL lose, because she's totally straight and doesn't like girls in the slightest like that.


----------



## surskitty

geh you guys are making me jealous by having figured out at least some of your identity in these regards >:| or at least figured out that you're not sure

all I've really figured out is that I like girls slightly more than guys but neither particularly much :|


----------



## goldenquagsire

Oddly enough, even though my parents have always been like "We don't care about grandchildren, just have a cool life mmkay?", I've had a strange paternal urge for a while now. I'm content to wait a few more decades, though. :P


----------



## Flazeah

Damn, I'm a bit late, but I'm going to say it anyway. Putin, it must have taken a lot of guts to say that, and good luck with figuring stuff out. I really hope you work out who you are. Arylett too. It sucks that your parents are giving the impression that they want you to marry a man and/or have babies of your own. >( Hopefully they'll cool it and accept who you are when you figure it out. And Mhaladie and surskitty and everyone else who is unsure - good luck figuring out who you are. :3


----------



## Jolty

Dannichu said:


> The cool thing about growing up with male friends; you climb trees, break bones and beat each other up instead of playing mummies and daddies.


Hell yes :D
Also I find it rather amusing that whenever me and my group of friends played "The Adventure Game" as we called it, I always was a male character (or a dog) and one of the guys was always a female character.



			
				Harlequin said:
			
		

> Also I have a question. Do you guys find that you receive more acceptance within the gay community [ugh stupid phrase] than without? because sometimes gays are even more xenophobic than those silly people who breed.


Nope :B probably because my bisexualness is unbalanced and there is more straightness in me lol (however lame that sounds)


----------



## octobr

Some lgb communities can be even more hostile towards trans people than the straight community. x__X I mean, some of them are hostile towards biseuxality -- acting like it's cheating or something.

CRAZY!


----------



## Timmy

Verne said:


> Some
> lgb communities can be even more hostile towards trans people than the straight community. x__X I mean, some of them are hostile towards biseuxality -- acting like it's cheating or something.
> 
> CRAZY!


Well that's dumb of them. ):
If they want to be accepted themselves, they should accept everyone else regardless of if they're trans, bi, gay or straight..etc as well.
People confuse me. ffffff.


----------



## Jolty

Yeah some people I know think being bi is being greedy >:B
And then there's the people who think its being undecided

When I "came out" 3 years ago, my dad said I was undecided... and I swear he still thinks that now >:( lame
Hmm I remember when I was little I sometimes used to imagine myself getting married to a woman... lmao :B


----------



## Timmy

Jolty said:


> Yeah some people I know think being bi is being greedy >:B
> And then there's the people who think its being undecided
> 
> When I "came out" 3 years ago, my dad said I was undecided... and I swear he still thinks that now >:( lame
> Hmm I remember when I was little I sometimes used to imagine myself getting married to a woman... lmao :B


DOES HE WANT US TO FUCKING PROVE OUR LAHV RIGHT IN FRONT OF HIM OR SOMETHING

IS THAT THE ONLY WAY TO CONVINCE YOUR DAD OF ANYTHING D:

also lol screw marrying woman, I used to want to marry my cat


----------



## Jolty

Timmy said:


> DOES HE WANT US TO FUCKING PROVE OUR LAHV RIGHT IN FRONT OF HIM OR SOMETHING
> 
> IS THAT THE ONLY WAY TO CONVINCE YOUR DAD OF ANYTHING D:
> 
> also lol screw marrying woman, I used to want to marry my cat


roflmao

MAYBE... its because he wants to be the only one in a long distance thing
If thats true then I now know where I get my "I MUST BE THE ONLY ONE" tendancies from

Or maybe he just can't get his head round the fact that I am bringing strange girls (ie you) home now :(


----------



## Timmy

Jolty said:


> roflmao
> 
> MAYBE... its because he wants to be the only one in a long distance thing
> If thats true then I now know where I get my "I MUST BE THE ONLY ONE" tendancies from
> 
> Or maybe he just can't get his head round the fact that I am bringing strange girls (ie you) home now :(


his little girl is all grown up now. bringing weirdos home ;A; *slapped*
MAYBE HE JUST DOESN'T LIKE ME ):
SCREW YOU BECCA'S DAD. I LIKED YOUR CATS. you're not getting rid of me now


----------



## Jolty

Timmy said:


> his little girl is all grown up now. bringing weirdos home ;A; *slapped*
> MAYBE HE JUST DOESN'T LIKE ME ):
> SCREW YOU BECCA'S DAD. I LIKED YOUR CATS. you're not getting rid of me now


Lmao he does like you :B he said so about twice after you left
he also said you reminded him of me which is yet more proof that we roll almost the exact same way


----------



## Vladimir Putin's LJ

Jolty said:


> Lmao he does like you :B he said so about twice after you left
> he also said you reminded him of me which is yet more proof that we roll almost the exact same way


Man your dad sounds like a pretty cool guy. If I ever had a girlfriend my dad would explode with rage, much like an anger volcano. An ancano.

Okay, so since I'm not sure *what* I am right now, I'll just go with Bigender for a while. My mum agreed immediatly to me plea of getting a haircut, my dad says he doesn't want me to cut it but since it's my own body I can do whatever I want with it.
Oh dad, you card.


----------



## Harlequin

@vlad

my sister isn't allowed to cut her hair because my father says so. I THINK IT IS A GOOD IDEA because she's barely normal-looking as it is and with short hair she'd look like a boy [but that's you know what you're going for].

in other news: don't you hate it when dreams are so real you think they're real and then you wake up and go "Oh."


----------



## Dannichu

Aww, so much. Most of my dreams are "La la la happy land~" and then I have to wake up and hate the world for at least an hour. D:


----------



## Jolty

Harlequin said:


> in other news: don't you hate it when dreams are so real you think they're real and then you wake up and go "Oh."


yes
why does the Happy Place only exist when I'm asleep or in a maths lesson


----------



## goldenquagsire

Most of my dreams take place in a place resembling the Twilight Realm from LoZ:TP. On the whole, I prefer the real world. :/


----------



## spaekle

What I really hate is when I have a dream where I have a lot of money or candy or something, but then I wake up and I don't have it. 

>:|


----------



## goldenquagsire

Oddly enough, I never seem to acquire material wealth in dreams. Mine are focused more around random acts of violence against zombie types, giant lakes, grey forests and for some reason my school keeps recurring. O_o


----------



## Arylett Charnoa

Dannichu said:


> Aww, so much. Most of my dreams are "La la la happy land~" and then I have to wake up and hate the world for at least an hour. D:


Me too, we're both not morning people, are we? I really hate it when I get a game or something that I've been wanting for ages in a dream and then I wake up, and poof, no not really, you don't have it, ahahaha.


----------



## Timmy

Harlequin said:


> in other news: don't you hate it when dreams are so real you think they're real and then you wake up and go "Oh."


Yes. :[

Although lucky for me it then happened iRL about a day later with some minor differences. >>;


----------



## Mhaladie

surskitty said:


> all I've really figured out is that I like girls slightly more than guys but neither particularly much :|


Hey me too. I mean kind of, mostly I've just felt like that recently. It's kind of irritating because sometimes (like now) I'll be all uninterested and not... well, be interested, and then other times I'll be near-obsessed. So I guess I'm not really like that, only sometimes.



Arylett Dawnsborough said:


> It REALLY is annoying, isn't it? She thinks I'm gay for her. I don't know, though. I had a dream that I kissed her, on the lips. Maybe I am, grah, I wish I knew! It seems so obvious because I had that dream, but it's really not. And even if it turned out that I did have feelings for her like that, I STILL lose, because she's totally straight and doesn't like girls in the slightest like that.


ARGH I KNOW. Actually I have a friend like that, too, who I sort of like in a possibly-more-than-friendly way, but I don't really know and she's very straight anyway so I kind of just ignore it because it's a lose/lose situation anyway. And I've found, personally, that dreams mean veeeeery little. I mean, I've had odd dreams where I end up kissing random people, mostly friends who I don't have any romantic interest in, so yes. Never really taken them all that seriously, but maybe that's just me.


----------



## Harlequin

dreams mean very little EXCEPT THAT I WANT TO FUCK THIS GUY SO HARD UP THE ASS THAT HE CRIES FOR A WEEK or something idk there were dildos involved too.


----------



## octobr

I don't have dreams that mean anything that I don't already know. I keep having Dark Knight related dreams, which just means I'm really excited for the Dark Knight. KNEW THAT!

Or dreams in which I am male. ALSO KNEW THAT!


----------



## Arylett Charnoa

Mhaladie said:


> ARGH I KNOW. Actually I have a friend like that, too, who I sort of like in a possibly-more-than-friendly way, but I don't really know and she's very straight anyway so I kind of just ignore it because it's a lose/lose situation anyway. And I've found, personally, that dreams mean veeeeery little. I mean, I've had odd dreams where I end up kissing random people, mostly friends who I don't have any romantic interest in, so yes. Never really taken them all that seriously, but maybe that's just me.


Well, I've never had a dream like it. There have been no dreams were I have kissed somebody like that. About anybody. So maybe it could mean something, since in my dream standards that is very unusual. I was shocked, honestly, it's just not typical of me. She knows about it, I told her. Only more convinced that I want her. But it's a good thing that she accepts my weird feelings and isn't freaked out.


----------



## octobr

I've never had a romantic/sexual dream. The most that happened ever was in a dream in which I was a grown man, and my friend (a woman my 'age') and I had sex in the snow, except neither of us were particularly focused and it was boring and then we played on a playground. 

It was a cool playground...


----------



## Flazeah

My dreams mean very little because most of them are just stupid. I sometimes dream about my crush, but she doesn't act like she does in real life. There was one dream I had where I was with my friend and I saw my crush, and she'd dyed her hair brightish red and cut it way short and I was like "What? She wouldn't do this... I remember her saying the reason she dyes it blonde is because it suits her, or something along those lines. o.o" (It does suit her. :3)

Heh, the significance of the friend being in the dream is that I sometimes talk to her about my crush. She often facepalms, but she's awesome at listening and is generally really awesome.


----------



## EvilCrazyMonkey

My dreams mean shit because it is one of the following:

a) Some random thing--such as my bus driver randomly murdering a kid on the bus
b) Making out with random people that I have no interest in at all. Well, except for one, but I daydream of him all the time anyway.
c) One of my friends' random nervous breakdowns (which never happen irl anyway), but usually in dream mode I can't feel emotions...

So, I think the only one that has actually caught my attention beyond "OHMYGOD YES MAKING OUT WITH HIM" in the past year or so was the dream I had last night where my crush ran up to me crying one of the following:

a) Will you make out with me? (which I disregard)
b) Will you go out with me? (which slightly creeps me out)
c) Will you make out with Hailey? (again, indifference)
d) Will you go out with Hailey? (which he would never want; he loves Hailey too much)

Even when I'm asleep I have awful hearing. D: But a, c, and d would make no sense whatsoever because my dreams practically revolve around making out, and he wouldn't want me to be with Hailey (because he loves her). I really hope this doesn't come true.


----------



## Music Dragon

What? This _isn't_ the Leather Gags Bondage Torture club?

Oh.


----------



## IrkSplee

Hm... I never have any dreams related to love and sex. Ever. It's usually either total WTFery, the earlier mentioned "WHOO! I FINALLY HAVE THIS THING I WANTED! ...oh. I don't. ._." or totally horrific nightmares. I miss when I didn't dream at all... sure, I like the nonsense ones, but the nightmares aren't worth it. What's worse is that they're somewhat REALISTIC - instead of insane monsters that defy all logic (when I wake up from those my reaction is "AAAAAH - oh that could never happen... I'm safe. *sleep*") I get to watch a friend's murder while unable to do anything or I finally give into suicidal thoughts in the most gruesome way imaginable or that spider that I killed in my room is back and it keeps crawling all over me and no matter how many times I swat at it, I keep missing. So I get to wake up with "What if she really was murdered?! What if I really did decide to kill myself?! WHAT IF I DIDN'T REALLY KILL THE SPIDER?!" Horrifying...

ON THE GAYING FRONT. I have officially managed to confuse a friend of mine.

Friend: Do you think (male celeb) is hot?
Me: No, I'm not into guys...
Friend: I thought you didn't have a preference.
Me: I don't. But I prefer looking at girls.
Friend: But I also thought you said you didn't want to sleep with anyone anyway...
Me: And I don't.
Friend: ?
Me: This is getting TMI. Something else now? ^_^;;

In short, I'm still confused over the fact that I could be attracted to both male and female personalities and would happily fall in love with either but I only find female bodies attractive but it's a moot point there because sex is gross and I just want to cuddle. What on Earth am I?!

Aaand late to the party, but throwing in my two cents of "Strangy, that was very brave." Strangy, Spaekle, Verne, anyone I may have missed... good luck with finding out who you are and managing to become who you are. =\ Being trapped in a body that doesn't suit you must really suck... hope you all manage to find what makes you happy!

And to add my own issues to the gender pile... I've always felt genderless. I don't mind people using feminine pronouns, but even as a kid, gender roles had me absolutely perplexed. If I wanted to play with robots AND ponies, dang it, I was going to play with robots AND ponies. Granted, the ponies ended up either becoming battle horses or ending up in weird sitcommy plots rather than attending tea parties and having their mane combed, but still. Even now, I don't feel particularly feminine, but I don't feel like I'm a man, either. Just Irk. No more, no less. But since the English language has no gender-neutral singular pronouns for humans, a she I remain. That I can handle. But every time someone insists "you should love fashion/shoes/make-up/babies because you're a girl!"... urge to attack with mallet... and it's not just the whole "DO IT BECAUSE IT'S WHAT WOMEN DO AND GET BACK IN THE KITCHEN WHEN YOU'RE DONE" attitude about that sets me on edge, either. Something in me doesn't mind she or her because there's really no alternative to it, but being referred to as girl/woman (I'm at the age where people use both)... it's oddly bothersome. I hate my brain.


----------



## Vladimir Putin's LJ

Music Dragon said:


> What? This _isn't_ the Leather Gags Bondage Torture club?
> 
> Oh.


Sorry, only on Fridays.

I've never had a sex dream where I was directly involved, but I've had a few where gay humping was going on and I sort of leered out of the shadows because I'm a creepy voyeur or spmething idk
But usually they're pretty cool dreams, from 'HOLY SHIT IT'S *CELEBRITY* oh wait it's a dream oh well' to stuff that would come from Dali on LSD. Those are really cool. And sometimes they're like episodes from a series but they never get continued :/ They're often pretty realistic, too.

Thank Irksplee :V And if you're a girl who's attracted to girls but in a non-sexual way I think it's homoromantic or something.


----------



## IrkSplee

Would it be, though, if romantically I don't give a damn? =\

Romance: Male, female, somewhere in between, I don't care. I just want love~ *gooey*

Attractive: Women are beautiful. I'm not interested in looking at guys at all. But that's just for celebrities or peoplewatching, people I don't personally know - once I know the personality, all bets are off and a guy could suddenly become the hottest thing ever, or that girl I was admiring from afar turns out to be a rotten bitch and all of a sudden she's ugly. Not even "she's a bitch, but she sure is beautiful". Just "rotten bitch. I was attracted to her?!"

Sex: Ew.

So, asexual biromantic homoattracted? ._.


----------



## Harlequin

;.;

Well at least people won't accuse you of being shallow...? because apparently I'm shallow. I mean, sorry for having standards okay. 

I'd say you're a biromantic homosexual because the "sexual" part doesn't mean you're going to have sex. and hey, maybe your opinion about sex will change eventually. Most people think it's "icky" until, you know, they realise that it'll be nice or something.


----------



## EvilCrazyMonkey

The last five posters said:
			
		

> Sex


ewwwwwwwwww.....

But I guess I'm in the same position; I don't want to have sex, but I still think males are so hottttttttttttt. /melt. And I still love a girl :D


----------



## Minish

Ah! Haven't posted here in aages so I'm just going to rant about stuff! :D

On the topic of genders: I didn't know it was possible for me to even con_sider_ that I might not be straight - 'gay' and 'lesbian' were these words people used, I just assumed they were bad people or something and just went 'haha you're gay?' occasionally. Also people used to giggle over words like 'blowjob' and 'bent' and I never knew what they meant. XDD Oh God I was an innocent little kid. I didn't know what sex entailed until I was about eleven, and I just went :D whenever people mentioned stuff. And underlined sex in the dictionary 'cause that was the cool thing to do.

Anyway. I've never thought that genders meant much. I don't think I feel _genderless_... I've always thought that I've had quite a feminine mindset. But then feminine to me is someone tall, willowy and gentle, but still strong - a female warrior. And then female or feminine or whatever to everybody else in the world is make-up, skirts, and vulnerability and I'm still trying to come to terms with that. I often say I'd prefer to be a boy, and the whole 'boy' stereotype and even the _word_ sounds so much nicer. :/ I just wish there were awesome people like the girls on here who happen to hate the stereotypes and not fit them as well. But nope, all we have are prissbags who will become sixteen year old mothers. :D Oh life, how I love you.

On the topic of THE SEX and SEXUALITAAAY: Hmm. I dunno anymore. I've always fashioned that sexuality was really important, but now I've realised that to hell with it; I'm not going to use any bloody labels anymore. Am I gay, bi, pan, asexual? I DUNNO.

If I'm attracted to someone, it'll be 'ooh they have a nice face shape' it won't be 'ooh I'd like to get in _their_ troozurs! 8D' I just hate sexuality, it's such a pile of utter crap. I hate genders, sexuality, _everything_. Oh and if God is real I HATE YOU TOO YOU STUPID _GOD_! >||| THIS WHOLE LIFE CRAP IS REALLY REALLY... _CRAP_!

I'm just so glad I have my friends. We don't talk much, we sure aren't the most sociable bunch... but because three out of four of us are bi/whatever, it's like we've come together. The only decent people (in my view - people who are like you guys) have sort of come together, and I love it. One of them has a crush on me and my other best friend, and oh for god's sake I'll just explain it ALL (read on if you're interested~)

One of them, I suppose my 'best friend', I absolutely love. I was unsure for a while whether it was platonic or romantic, because I've never been able to tell the difference (and I often daydream about how it would be to kiss any of my friends, or be in a relationship at all, it's weird), but now I'm very firm that it's platonic. I'm not sure about her, she's the independent, unpredictable type... argh just too hard to explain. Besides, she's not like me, she'll often joke about how celebrities are hot (_Billie Piper_ XD) and how she knows she's bi because she wants to screw both genders. I'd say she's NORMAL anyway. But I would be happy now saying that I love her very, very, much, as a _sister_ or a friend. I'm sure she'd be a little freaked out if I said that to her face, because I'm not exactly the most sociable, friendly person... but yeah.

Now, our other friend... less independent and confident and perfect, and is one of those shy, timid girls... she has a crush on us both. I'm not stupid and I know why she has a crush on friend A, and I'm being very calm and (possibly vain) about it all, but I don't actually feel freaked out or anything that she likes me I mean it's about time someone liked me ;_; *arrogant? D:*[/i]. In fact I can deal with it quite well.

I just dunno what to do about it. I am extremely observant and could tell it was coming... I guessed she was bisexual and had a crush on friend A, I guessed she had a crush on me, and I guessed both times she was about to ask me out. The first time I skilfully changed the topic~ And the second time I just let her ask me out, because I was bored and wanted to see how it would affect me. Now I just dunno what to do about it. Thankfully she was all 'well, you know where I am if you change your mind' when I said no (I actually said yes first, but then woke up the next day thinking I was a moron and told her no instead). Now I dunno. I want to be in a relationship, I suppose I need practise for the future and she'd be the best person to practise with (I know I'm being insensitive, but I can't help it... besides, she's too idealistic and doesn't look in the future, and probably reckons we'd be together for years or something. also she's the type like one of those animé girls who goes ^___^;;; when they're about to have their first kiss, yeah that type. Really shy and quiet girl, blah blah).

And another thing, if friend A, the one I love very much platonically, if she asked me out, I would say yes immediately. It would be a bloody dream come true and I don't know why. Am I actually in _love_ with her? And I say love because no, I don't have little crushes. I don't remember ever having a crush on a girl, either, but that's mainly because I didn't realise there was such thing as sexuality and that liking a girl was possible until about two or so years ago, and I think it was just a coincidence that the only two people I ever liked were both male. I'm willing to explain more if somebody would be kind enough to try to give me advice, if they've been in this kind of situation before. :/

Did anyone read that? |D [/rambling]


----------



## Dannichu

You four should start your own soap opera, Cirrus :D
But go you for defying labels. I've always known I was female, and while I was late in conciously realizing my painfully obvious gayness, I'm fairly sure I've always known it subconciously (it'd explain a _lot_).

I'm glad my life isn't as complicated as all that, though. I've only had a crush on someone I was close friends with once and that wasn't that bad. My sister's like a best friend and my best friend's like a sister, so that's all fine there, and I've only got a few female friends that I hang out with (most of my best friends on here are girls, though). 
I've had a few male friends crush on me, though, which is always embarassing for everyone because I'm an obtuse moron and don't notice things like that, so eventually someone will take pity on him/me and _tell _me and I'll freak out and eventually he'll get over it (or, for some reason, start crushing on my sister o.O). 

Such is life :D


----------



## Flazeah

Cirrus, I'd say wait a while and try to work out whether you actually do love your best friend, and don't go out with the one who has a crush on you unless you're sure you like her romantically at least a bit. Or something. :D; Not that I've been in that situation before, but I like giving advice. Even thought it might be totally crap.


----------



## Eevee

IrkSplee said:


> Sex: Ew.


Okay, where the hell are all these "ew gross" people coming from?

Yeah, surprise, sex is icky.  So is _everything else your body does_.  Get over it, stop complaining, go get sticky with someone you dig.  It is glorious.


----------



## spaekle

Eeeg, IrkSplee, the lack of a gender-neutral pronoun is something I seriously hate. :[ I don't like being called a 'she' and would probably prefer 'he', but that doesn't particularly make sense since I'm not really being outward about this whole thing, and even my friends who know all this stuff about me still insist on calling me 'she'. :( I guess I can tolerate it compared to things like 'young lady' and 'little girl' (my parents call me 'little girl' as a pet name and I absolutely fucking _hate_ it), but I still find myself correcting people in my head when they say 'she'. 

Cirrus, that sounds confusing and awful. :( I'm not sure if I've been in anything very similar, although crushes for me in general are always pretty messy. And that's like the two I've actually had since I figured out what sex was. Awesome job for defying the stereotypes though. I don't think anyone should feel obligated to do or think anything just because of what parts they were born with. 

I'm hungry.


----------



## Alexi

> Yeah, surprise, sex is icky. _So is everything else your body does._ Get over it, stop complaining, go get sticky with someone you dig. It is glorious.


That is a winquote, I must say. 

May...I join? *shy smile*


----------



## Minish

Well, maybe you should just get over the fact that lots of people will be hesitant about having sex, or may just not like the idea. :/ I sure don't.

But I see where you're coming from? XD

Also thanks guys for the advice. <3 Flazeah, I'm almost certain that she (my best friend) doesn't like me - and she actually likes the other girl that likes me! But like I said, she's actually properly physically attracted to her, and is very matter-of-fact about it... and she 'doesn't date', as the other friend has already asked her out and she said no.

Makes me wonder what she intends to do once she's an adult and wants some lovin'. XD


----------



## Vladimir Putin's LJ

Cirrus said:


> Makes me wonder what she intends to do once she's an adult and wants some lovin'. XD


Swinger clubs? :D?

I don't get this whole repulsion about sex thing either because, well, sex is pretty normal? It's a thing the body's built to do, just like eating. I mean you can also eat while having sex but I supose it'd be pretty messy idk

Also does anyone know where I can buy one of those shirts with the big, loose, poofy end of sleeve things pirates and poets used to wear in the 19th century? It's part of a deal I made with my mum: I have to wear a dress to the Comic Prize ceremony thing in September but I can choose what kind of dress so we agree on a simple black one (sort of like this) with a shirt and tie/cravat.
If you can think of something less dumb please do tell because I'll be immortalized in the local paper looking like a dumbass.

Come on use your fabulous fashion knowledge here i know you all have it >:I


----------



## goldenquagsire

If you find those shirts, send me one. I've always wanted one of those. :D


----------



## Harlequin

Just wear the dress ; ;


----------



## Vladimir Putin's LJ

Harlequin said:


> Just wear the dress ; ;


But I look fucking terrible in dresses ):


----------



## Arylett Charnoa

Cirrus, that sounds very confusing. I wish I knew what to tell you, but when it comes to stuff like that, I just don't know much. All I can say is that I hope things go well for you. (I really do mean that.)

And go, yay, defying the gender roles! Gender roles confuse me so much. I KNOW I'm a girl, there's no question about it. But everybody seems to think I want to be a guy just because of how I dress and act. 

It's very frustrating. My friend has asked me: "Have you ever wanted to be a guy?" and I was like: "WHAT?! GOD NO! NO! NO!" I didn't expect that question at all and it totally caught me off guard. "That's strange, because you dress, talk, walk, and act like a guy." And me, being completely oblivious about all of this, said: "I do?" Then she gave me this look, like it was SO obvious. (And now that I think about it, it is. I do dress and act very guy-like.) "Yes, you do. You're just not... very girly..." Then I said: "So what? That doesn't make me any less of a girl! I don't care about makeup or any of that stupid crap. I KNOW I'm a girl." 

And she sighed, looking at me like I didn't know any better. In a way, I guess, maybe I do care about "that stupid crap." I would really like to dress like an actual girl (because dressing the way I do now just confuses me, it makes me think that I'm undermining my "girlness"), it's just that I feel like I'm not pretty enough, I feel like I would look completely stupid. It's really a lack of confidence.

Argh, another rant. Sorry guys. That conversation just confused me a little, it made me thing: "Do people actually think of me as a boy?"


----------



## Proto_Fan

I think I'll join.

I'm so nervous admitting this, especially because my parents could very well find this. (Paranoia. :D)

I think I might be Gay/bi/whatever the fuck you want to label me as. But, as with most people my age, I really just don't know. It's confusing as hell, but thinking about it more and more makes it seem more and more like it might actually seem...I have no idea, not so far out. It makes it actually seem possible I'd do it. I mean, before now it was like, I'll never be interested/attracted to guys.

And now that I do it's like an entirely new process that was invented this year or something. I've even had dream about watching one of my friends fuck with another guy and I might have liked it (God, at this point, I don't even know what the hell I felt. D:) for like, the first hour of the day. I suppose that's the day I really started considering becoming eh, I suppose bi. The other hours were me seriously thinking about this, part of me saying this is just some other person in your head telling you these things. AHAHAHA. I was clearly unable to think at all that day. Haha, I sound so retarded right now.

I just have no clue. I think part of it is my parents are Christians. I don't really need much of an explanation after that, but I feel like talking shit about them. They (Mainly my dad) Are _extremely_ homophobic. My dad has a habit of whispering to me about how this or that person is on his gaydar. And they call "Goth" people (When most of them aren't really what people consider goth at all) freaks, and somehow try to play it off as if it was okay. I understand other people are going to do it, but that doesn't mean stoop to their level. And they say it doesn't make them love that person any less. Then WHY use the word freak. It's offensive.

To enforce the fact even more, I think I have some kind of attraction to a guy in our neighborhood, but I'm not really positive. Life sucks. D:

I wanna tell my best friend, but I think he might think I'll be hitting on him. He's the guy who I always hang out with and get called a gay couple. I suppose I should talk to my two other bi friends. They're the only people I've met IRL who aren't straight to my knowledge.

I'm in serious need of advice. D:


----------



## octobr

I don't like sex either. I mean, it's not that it's gross, I'm just not interested. Especially not yet.



> I've never thought that genders meant much. I don't think I feel genderless... I've always thought that I've had quite a feminine mindset. But then feminine to me is someone tall, willowy and gentle, but still strong - a female warrior. And then female or feminine or whatever to everybody else in the world is make-up, skirts, and vulnerability and I'm still trying to come to terms with that.


1. I'm trying really hard to type this right since my arms are shaking BAD because I just took this conditioning class at dance and aaaaaah mah gah.

2. I think it's really cool how the image of femininity has evolved (femininity is a lot like banana. It just goes on forever.) -- it used to be a lot of pink and cute and before that it was strong and loud and waaaay before that it was demure and hidden. And now it's strong and almost masculine. That's just awesome to me.



ALSO I'd give advice but I've never... experienced this 'crush' thing.






> yay, defying the gender roles!


what? Not fitting into your assigned gender role... kind of sucks. 




> I think part of it is my parents are Christians.


awefkawefjopasew for pete's sake christian does NOT EQUATE to homophobic, bible-thumping freaks. 



> They (Mainly my dad) Are extremely homophobic. My dad has a habit of whispering to me about how this or that person is on his gaydar.


That doesn't really sound like homophobic, tbh. Any other examples?



> And they call "Goth" people (When most of them aren't really what people consider goth at all) freaks


Goth is freakish. Since when are pants that make you look (and for that matter weigh) about forty pounds huger in style? (o, rite, gangsta.)



> I wanna tell my best friend, but I think he might think I'll be hitting on him.


Suggestion: 'Hey, I think I might be gay. I mean, I haven't found anyone I like yet, but.' Or even better would be 'I might be gay. I'm not hitting on you.'




And if your parents decide they hate you because you're questioning your sexuality they aren't exactly great parents. Their child should be infinitely more important that what sexuality or subculture he fits into. :|


----------



## Alexi

Hey, man, I know what you mean. 

My (blargh, Christain) parents are the same as far as gay people go. In fact, they used to say "goth" people were weird (they didn't call them freaks), until I went that way. :D They don't say anything, though my mom still tries to buy me "normal" clothes. But that's beside the point.

I'm very bi, and I'm very afraid of my parents finding out. They told me once in a hypithetical conversation that if they found out I liked guys, they would send me to therapy to reverse it. -_- So I can't tell them one of the most important facts of my life. I realized it in the 9th grade, when I realized that I noticed guys as much as I do girls, and I just went with it, and it's been awesome so far. I'm sure you must be confused, but you could do what I did and just go with the flow. 

Tell people you feel comfortable telling right now, they can help you. Certainly your bi friends will help you. ^_^


----------



## Dannichu

Huh. My mother's from the most Christian family _in the world _(her mother had a brother and a sister; one was a priest, the other was a nun. And yes, they were Irish) and she has no problem with gays at all. She had a ton of gay friends when she was younger (who have long since died of AIDS) and likes RENT nearly as much as I do. 

...not that I've told her, you realize. I'm fairly sure she knows, but I'm saying nothing.

Uuh, advice... well, post your thoughts here. Concentrating confusing thoughts into a forum post is very helpful, I've found. And your bi friends will probably be a lot of help. If you can trust your best friend, tell him, but be sure he won't freak and tell everyone you know because that would be... rather bad.


----------



## Alexi

Just because someone's uber Christain doesn't mean they hate gays, and just because some hates gays doesn't mean they're Christain.

But the two often go hand-in-hand. -_- Worst part for me is that the preist at my parents' church hates gays, and states so often in his sermons. So I take that time to either leave to take a piss or sleep. :)


----------



## Proto_Fan

I'm sorry about the Christianity comment. Arugh, but it seems that sometimes there are no Christians like that. At least in my life. >>

I still find discrmination against a person because of what they do/wear/whatever is wrong, even if they ARE freaks. I just don't like people who think that this person is better due to x y z, or that this group is better because they don't a b c.

Also, by whispering to us about it, he expects us to avoid him. I told my mom about the way he acts like I do about most things he does to annoy/upset me (Him being his usual hypocritical self without realizing it. :D), and she admits it's out of hand, but down plays it. I seriously think that if he had the choice, he'd have segregation of sexuality.

...I wanna post that I didn't type that but I did. HAHAHA oh my god I'm out of it tonight. DX

And I'm pretty sure he's trustworthy. He kept a dark secret me and a girl have been harboring since we were five. I lost a gold star that day. :x

Edit: Alexi, way to use your time wisely. =D


----------



## octobr

I've never met anyone who was christian and hated gays. That might just be my small social circle, but seriously. Any christian who is homophobic is just someone who is homophobic and uses Christianity as an excuse.


----------



## Proto_Fan

...You know I think that really might be us. X_x

We skip church fairly often. unless we are running camera that Sunday for the nursing homes they deliver to. (They try and sell them, but no one really buys them to my knowledge)


----------



## Alexi

I know what you mean. *sigh*

Oy, I'm a discrimiation stew. Being bi, I know my parents and their friends would basically shun me. My school is centred around sports and being fit, and I, being my wonderfully fat self, is hated by them. And the rest of my fam hates my long hair and black nails. *does a dance* 

My dad is totally racist against Turks (he's Armenian, not that that excuses it, just as an explaination) and he hates Muslims with a passion. I know Muslims who aren't a bunch of violent rioters, yet he tells me to steer clear of them, because, you know, they all hate Christains. *nodnod*


----------



## EvilCrazyMonkey

oh dear god if any of the many people i knew found out about my quotesexuality i would be dead. i live in a very christian area and everyone seems to hate atheism and gays.


----------



## Proto_Fan

-nodnod-

I forgot what I was going to type, being distracted by a fly and a Monopoly token on my desk.

I will tell my friend tomorrow. If I can catch him at home.

ECM (Mind if I abbreviate? :3) that sounds terrible.


----------



## Alexi

Yay. Telling someone is good. And remember, there's always us random folks on teh interwebz, if ya need it. :D


----------



## Dannichu

Verne said:


> I've never met anyone who was christian and hated gays. That might just be my small social circle, but seriously. Any christian who is homophobic is just someone who is homophobic and uses Christianity as an excuse.


Same here, actually. The only people I know who are are a handful of uneducated males. I dunno; other people might be, but they don't say anything. 

But as far as I can tell, the UK is infinetely more tolerant towards gays than the US. It's extremely politically incorrect to do or say anything homophobic in public. And the more educated a person is, the less likely it is that they're intolerant (see: chavs).


----------



## Harlequin

I've met Christians who are opposed to homosexuality in theory but they're not homophobic towards gay people. They just don't want us to be able to get married!

and in some cases adopt children but there we go.


----------



## Alexi

> But as far as I can tell, the UK is infinetely more tolerant towards gays than the US.


I agree with this, although I remember an incident a few years ago when someone bombed a gay bar in London. But it's very fuzzy in my memory.

You wanna see homophobic Christains? Come to California. -_-;;; Even though we have San Francisco, we also have every homophobe in the country to harrass the nice men and women in San Fran.


----------



## Dannichu

Yeah, but that was one nutjob. In terms of the general population, I'd much rather be a gay in the UK than in the US. 

I'd still take the US over, say, Sudan, though.

Woah, it's crazy that South Africa has legal same-sex marriages, but in Botswana and Zimbabwe, which are directly above it, gays (or at least gay men) get life imprisonment for it o.o


----------



## Alexi

I'd rather be gay in the UK too. Brit guys are sexy. ;)


----------



## spaekle

If you want homophobia in the US, West Virginia's a pretty nice place to start. A lot of people here still aren't even over the whole 'blacks are inferior' thing. Also they have this bizarre idea that the south is going to 'rise again'. Which is silly because West Virginia went with the north. Anyway.

It really pissed me off, this one time in middle school when we were having a carnival. They had this little mock-wedding thing where kids could pretend to get married and whatnot and it was all great fun. The teacher who was acting as the priest was an awesome guy who would have been happy to do gay marriages, but a bunch of the old prude teachers bitched that blah blah blah gay marriage is illegal here blah blah so he wasn't allowed to do it. Even though the whole thing was a freaking joke. Wtf. 

My friends and I wanted to have one big happy polygamy with each other, but they didn't allow that either. :[ 

I'd be happy to go anywhere where people are more accepting. Is homophobic stuff really looked that down upon in the UK? That's pretty awesome.


----------



## Harlequin

The UK's generally not homophobic. I mean, there's not really any point. Some people might be a bit freaked out by it but but I doubt anyone's going to hurt you for it. They'd be laughed at for trying.

I live in a tiny little village and homophobia's not exactly... supported. There are people who _think_ they're homophobic but probably wouldn't be if they knew they knew a gay person.


----------



## EvilCrazyMonkey

I live in the middle of nowhere and you're either Christian or on the death row.

No, not literally, but it seems so sometimes. And unfortunately a great deal of those people are Catholic, too.


----------



## Alexi

D: That sucks. *hugs* I'm glad I live in a city, where at least not everyone is a "conservative" Christian.


----------



## EvilCrazyMonkey

Alexi you remind me so much of this person that went to camp the same time as me (and his name was Alexei.. weird, huh?)

idk, camp thunderbird, cabin 21, session 2 '08 (woot~). and he's bi and acts like you to a degree.

probably not, but likely :S

EDIT::
oh yeah ontopic...
well i'm screwed; we might as well call our school "waccamaw high church" or something :V it's annoying.


----------



## Alexi

That's because it was me! >:D (no, not really. I wouldn't be caught dead in a camp.) Besides, Alexi's not my real name. XP

Haha, high church. That reminds me of a sign I saw on a trip to England once. It said something about priests on pot, or something. It was very bizarre. But hilarious~

What is your religion, anyway?


----------



## Proto_Fan

Harlequin said:


> There are people who _think_ they're homophobic but probably wouldn't be if they knew they knew a gay person.


OH THAT REMINDS ME.
My dad was in the goth group in high school. It's what I found out today/yesterday(It's 1:07 AM over here.). :|

BUT ANYWAY. He had a crush on this goth chick and this chick's friend had a crush on him, but he was a freshmen and they were juniors. Next year he found out about his crush being bi, which totally turned him off, and that the chick's friend had a crush on him. But she was a senior by then so he was like, "Eehhh."

I find this mildly hilarious how he tries to defend himself after I told him bi's are just regular people doing things he doesn't like.


----------



## Alexi

Haha. That's pretty funny. XP How old is he? o.O

My dad throws the Bible at me at the mention of the word gay. -_-;;;


----------



## Proto_Fan

O_o Using the more assertive way are we?

And my dad's like 35/6 I lost count after uh...forever.


----------



## Alexi

Oh, you have no idea...-_-;

Hah, I know how that is, which gets awkward around birthday time...o.O Your dad's a lot younger than mine. XD


----------



## Proto_Fan

He's young for dads having kids my age. Right about now they usually turn like 40 or something I don't know. XD

I just write him a generic card. Or buy him one. And never mention his age. :D
OH
My best friend is so hard to get a hold of during the summer. So yea, he still doesn't know. Maybe I'll just go ask for one of my bi friend's phone numbers at my other friend's house. She lives across the street, and she's cousin's with my bi friend.

AURHG I wrote that and I'm confused. ;;


----------



## Alexi

My dad's nearly 60. o.O

Um...You confused me too. XD;;;


----------



## Proto_Fan

Ah, but I'm an only child? I dunno, maybe my dad just resists aging and only ages ever other year. :3

Okay, this is a version I can understand. XD
me -> friend's house. Get the number of bi friend
Friend -> bi friend's cousin.

I like things simple.


----------



## Alexi

I'm an only child, too. I think you're right. >:3

Ah, okay, I understand now. Arrows make life simple. *nodnod*


----------



## Proto_Fan

That is why I love them. :3

lolontopic: I think I'm reluctant to tell my family because I'm afraid of how they'll react. I've been dropping hints so I would get them to start the conversation and then I'd just admit to it, because that always seems to make it easier. Amazing how my plans crash and burn within a few hours of me thinking them up. :D


----------



## Alexi

I understand what you mean. I'm the same way. I tried that, then the convo went to a bad place, and I couldn't tell them. :(


----------



## Proto_Fan

My family is just being oblivious at the moment. And that sucks D:

I'd probably wouldn't have the guts to do it anyway. XD me = coward in social stuff. LIKE TALKING HURRAY.


----------



## Alexi

I'm the same way! XD Socializing is easier on the internet. In real life, I'm so uber shy...>_<

Yay for obliviousness. Huh?


----------



## spaekle

Dang it, I'm shy on the internet and IRL. Just unconfident, I guess. 

My parents are oblivious too. I'm kinda hoping for one of those awesome 'parents can just tell' things but for some reason I doubt it'll happen that way. :[


----------



## Arylett Charnoa

My mom keeps asking me if I'm gay, actually. Because of my sister. Grr. My sister was all joking: "She might be gay." And it was just a joke! But my mom, um, takes things TOO seriously. 

And I usually mumble something in response. Then she says: "I won't hate you if you're gay." Then I always think: "You may not hate me, but you'll probably be ashamed." The thing about her is that when she doesn't like something, she keeps it in for a long time and then several months later, she starts bitching about it out of nowhere. So that'll probably happen if I say I think I may be gay/bisexual.


----------



## Coloursfall

*wave* hi guys, I'm in!  I'm bisexual/sorta-lesbian I guess, and have the most boring coming-out story ever.  Went something like this:

Me- Mom... I'm Bi-maybe-gay...
mom- I figured honey. :3 what do you want for lunch?

well, not exactly that, but she actually said 'I figured' which was amusing.  And my stepdad is mostly 'As long as you don't get knocked up' about it.

I'M BORING.


----------



## Proto_Fan

That sucks. That's just too much. I'd snap under that. You are a true soldier Arylett! >o

FMC: So boring it's exciting! No really.


----------



## Arylett Charnoa

Thank you, Proto. :D 

The moments when she asks are usually very awkward. She only asks when we're completely alone. Lately, she hasn't asked, because I haven't given her a chance. Ahaha.

I suppose I should mention my dad. He um, doesn't know a thing. Nothing. At all. My mom never told him about my sister's bisexualness. And I don't think he's ever going to know, because my mom's really afraid of his reaction.


----------



## Proto_Fan

Not a problem. :D

Ahaha. I know that trick. I used to use that all the time. I was a little naughty as a kid. :3
oh who am I kidding. I'm still naughty. :D

I really have no comment on your dad other then: wow.


----------



## Alexi

> Me- Mom... I'm Bi-maybe-gay...
> mom- I figured honey. :3 what do you want for lunch?


Hah. The "I figured" part made me laugh. 



> I suppose I should mention my dad. He um, doesn't know a thing. Nothing. At all. My mom never told him about my sister's bisexualness. And I don't think he's ever going to know, because my mom's really afraid of his reaction.


Ignorance is bliss. For all parties. *nodnod*


----------



## Dannichu

Full Metal Cookies said:


> *wave* hi guys, I'm in!  I'm bisexual/sorta-lesbian I guess, and have the most boring coming-out story ever.  Went something like this:
> 
> Me- Mom... I'm Bi-maybe-gay...
> mom- I figured honey. :3 what do you want for lunch?
> 
> well, not exactly that, but she actually said 'I figured' which was amusing.  And my stepdad is mostly 'As long as you don't get knocked up' about it.
> 
> I'M BORING.


Aww, that's awesome. But you and your mother are really close, aren't you?


----------



## Flazeah

^ Did your mom actually ask you who you're crushing on? When I came out to my mum, she just assumed it was a girl I knew at school.


----------



## Minish

Arylett Dawnsborough said:


> Thank you, Proto. :D
> 
> The moments when she asks are usually very awkward. She only asks when we're completely alone. Lately, she hasn't asked, because I haven't given her a chance. Ahaha.
> 
> I suppose I should mention my dad. He um, doesn't know a thing. Nothing. At all. My mom never told him about my sister's bisexualness. And I don't think he's ever going to know, because my mom's really afraid of his reaction.


Ah... that situation is quite similar to mine. :/ And my mum said she didn't hate me or anything and accepts me for who I am, and yet still ranted on for ever in fright after I _joined an LGBT support group on Facebook[/i

And my dad doesn't know anything either. He lives in Germany, so we only see him three times a year and phone him about once or twice a week. So we don't really get to talk that much anyway.

...I wonder how he'd react if I told him? Or my mum... she usually tells him things like this because she knows I won't, but I think this would be too far... this is probably the only thing she wouldn't tell him..._


----------



## Jolty

Oh are we talking about coming out now

I came out when I was 13 (biggest mistake EVER) at _school_ oh god why
Aaaaand commence 2 odd years of being bullied. At some point, I had to go see the head of year about it and if we minus all the crap, she basically said "its a phase". That is so LAME when people say that grr
Also its lame when people say "how do you know?" >:| what answer do they expect? "i know i'm bisexual because I find myself with the urge to fuck both sexes :D"


----------



## EvilCrazyMonkey

Jolty said:


> Oh are we talking about coming out now
> 
> I came out when I was 13 (biggest mistake EVER) at _school_ oh god why
> Aaaaand commence 2 odd years of being bullied. At some point, I had to go see the head of year about it and if we minus all the crap, she basically said "its a phase". That is so LAME when people say that grr
> Also its lame when people say "how do you know?" >:| what answer do they expect? "i know i'm bisexual because I find myself with the urge to fuck both sexes :D"


Crap. I did that about three months ago. And I'm 13.

anyway~ I just ignore them. Half the school goes up to my friends and asks if I'm gay (which they should be asking me). They usually tell the asshole to ask me :3 but whatever.
oh yes my friend used to think that it was a phase but she's a supporter of the everyone is bi theory :3. quite opposites.

oh yes@alexi: i just had to throw that out there :3. whatever.


----------



## Jolty

EvilCrazyMonkey said:


> Crap. I did that about three months ago. And I'm 13.
> 
> anyway~ I just ignore them.


Not that easy to do D: well it wasn't for me anyway
People finally shut up after a while... must be just the younger years at school who are twats. I didn't get picked on at all throughout year 11 lol. :B


----------



## EvilCrazyMonkey

lucky for me I'm going to be a freshman in high school D:
anyway the people at my school are assholes; i've had enough practice ignoring them.


----------



## Alexi

Yay for assholes at school.

I came out over Legos. As in, my friends and I were playing Legos and I was all, "Guys, I'm bi.^_^" And they were, "Okay...?"

Haha, it was a funny day. No one at my old school bothered me about it (my old school was full of bi kids, so it was all cool). But then I moved, and I no one at my new school knows except for some friends I managed to make. *nodnod*


----------



## IrkSplee

First of all, about the whole sex thing before - I can think of a ton of gross things that human bodies do, mostly those that involve bodily fluids because that's my main ick, but none that I'd actually like to do on a regular basis. Of course, I do realize that I am a slow, slow grower - I was 16 or 17 when I finally started going "you know what, girls are kind of hot". Before then it was "I don't find anything physical hot and I never will". So, yeah, I know I'll change, give myself time to grow, bla bla bla. I'm just not in a hurry to MAKE it happen. Not like it matters to anybody - far as I know, no one's ever wanted in my pants. Not bitter over it or anything, just stating a fact. 



Full Metal Cookies said:


> *wave* hi guys, I'm in!  I'm bisexual/sorta-lesbian I guess, and have the most boring coming-out story ever.  Went something like this:
> 
> Me- Mom... I'm Bi-maybe-gay...
> mom- I figured honey. :3 what do you want for lunch?
> 
> well, not exactly that, but she actually said 'I figured' which was amusing.  And my stepdad is mostly 'As long as you don't get knocked up' about it.
> 
> I'M BORING.


You. Get out of my life. D= That's basically what happened to me, as I mentioned last time 'round. I was terrified of telling mom because she tended to make snarky comments about me being an atheist and she's the type to start bitching and swearing and telling me that if I'm lucky I'll have a career as a Rite-Aid cashier for the rest of my life when I so much as wipe the table wrong, so when she asked if I was a lesbian I just sputtered for a few seconds, finally said "yeah" because I didn't feel like explaining the bi-maybe-gay thing... "I had a feeling. Pass the salt?"

Then again, at the time she was sorta drunk. To be perfectly honest, I'm not even sure she REMEMBERS... we always have "heart-to-hearts" when she's been drinking and then she doesn't remember anything about it the next day. But I'll just pretend that she does remember by some fluke and move on with life.

It doesn't mean we're close, though... the "BITCH SWEAR YOU'RE GOING TO BE STUCK AS A CASHIER FOREVER BECAUSE YOU DON'T CLEAN THE DAMN TABLE TO MY STANDARDS" thing wasn't an exaggeration. Ugh.


----------



## octobr

> Get out of my life.


drrrrramaz! haha anyways.





My mom used to do the "Blah blah relatively normal conversation HONEY, YOU KNOW I'D LOVE YOU NO MATTER WHO YOU LOVE, RIGHT?"

"Mom, I hate _people_"

"... ok dear."

I think she hoped I _was_ lesbian or bi or whatever just so that I'd like someone. I mean, she's still convinced that she's going to get a grandchild outta me. Which is ridiculous, since I have hated kids since I was one. 






What I liked was the part where I was all 'boys r dum' (mainly because, you know, I wasn't one) and she's like THAT'S OK, WHEN YOU'RE TEN YOU'LL LIKE THEM!~ Then when I was ten I was like boys are _really_ dumb. YOU'LL LIKE THEM WHEN YOU'RE TWELVE

Age twelve rolls around and I'm almost a little disappointed because now boys aren't dumb, they're fucking jerks and I want the entire male (well, admittedly also the female) population of my school to drop dead.

She sort of gave up. XD



I don't even want to bother trying to tell my family -- I mean, past my parents. My aunt is stupid, dresses horribly, and spoils the shit out of her kids and they end up running away with their girlfriend or driving into poles three times or getting goddamn fat -- but she comes over here and she tries to give my mom _advice_ on how to raise me and my brother.

And I have an uncle who's gay, yeah -- but he's also gay in the sense that 'YOU'RE EITHER GAY OR YOU'RE STRAIGHT, THE REST OF THE LGBT SPECTRUM DOESN'T EXIST' and once again, he's a total idiot.

And I'd be scared to bother telling my brother since he's a fucking jerk anyways. But that's his job, so.


----------



## Alexi

> or getting goddamn fat


What's wrong with being fat? D:


----------



## Dannichu

Because it's incredibly unhealthy. Hearts aren't meant to support people who weigh 50+ kilos.


----------



## Alexi

Could you give that to me in pounds? :D

I'm fat, but I'm happy. That's all that matters to me. :)


----------



## Jolty

Dannichu said:


> Because it's incredibly unhealthy. Hearts aren't meant to support people who weigh 50+ kilos.


Well I'm 75+ kilos and mine seems to be working very well


----------



## Proto_Fan

I have no problem with that. :D

Haha, unhealthy. Try being fifty six pounds at the age of 13. Now I weigh like 80. How's that for unhealthy? :3

Verne, I have an Aunt like that. Only I've never met her. I think she was my GREAT aunt or something maybe. Who knows, it's my dad's side, and they only way I'd meet her is to go to the Smith family reunion. HAHA. yea right. :|


----------



## Dannichu

DX I didn't mean kilos I meant stones damn metric/imperial/whatever system screwing with my braiiiin~


----------



## Eevee

stones?  is that like furlongs to the hogshead


----------



## Jolty

Dannichu said:


> DX I didn't mean kilos I meant stones damn metric/imperial/whatever system screwing with my braiiiin~


Now that makes a crapload more sense, lol.


----------



## octobr

Nothing is wrong with being fat (well, except for the part where you're... fat. I don't really have any mercy for the whole idea. It's not that it makes the person any worse, it's just like why let yourself get there) but my cousin used to be skinny and cute. Now she's... fucking huge. And horribly ugly. And, to top it off, still dumb as hell!


----------



## Arylett Charnoa

Cirrus said:


> Ah... that situation is quite similar to mine. :/ And my mum said she didn't hate me or anything and accepts me for who I am, and yet still ranted on for ever in fright after I _joined an LGBT support group on Facebook_
> 
> And my dad doesn't know anything either. He lives in Germany, so we only see him three times a year and phone him about once or twice a week. So we don't really get to talk that much anyway.
> 
> ...I wonder how he'd react if I told him? Or my mum... she usually tells him things like this because she knows I won't, but I think this would be too far... this is probably the only thing she wouldn't tell him...


I'm really afraid of my dad's reaction. He, um, has a record for getting scarily mad. 

Yesterday, I was looking through my parent's papers (I was looking for my yearbook photo) and found an anger management one that said: "[My father's signature] has completed the anger management course." I didn't know about this. It was just "Oh my god." He usually only gets violent when he's drunk though. Like Alexi said, ignorance is bliss. He's never going to know anything, that's why my mom never tells him much. She can handle things, even if she bitches about them. But him? We don't trust to take this maturely. He's a good dad, I'm not saying he's this crazy angry guy. Most of the time, he's pretty calm. (And he makes a lot of jokes.) He just has a bad temper.



Alexi said:


> Could you give that to me in pounds? :D
> 
> I'm fat, but I'm happy. That's all that matters to me. :)


Oh and Alexi, here's an online converter for you: http://www.onlineconversion.com/weight_all.htm


----------



## Dannichu

Iibui said:


> stones?  is that like furlongs to the hogshead


About 90% of scales in the UK still measure in stones. We're kinda slow like that.


----------



## Alexi

> Nothing is wrong with being fat (well, except for the part where you're... fat. I don't really have any mercy for the whole idea. It's not that it makes the person any worse, it's just like why let yourself get there)


...Huh?

And thanks, Arylett! ^_^


----------



## Harlequin

I still haven't come out to my parents. My mother asked me back last year but that was because she'd been reading my MSN logs [it was an accident but that's not the point] so I lied to her because fuck it's none of her business so now she doesn't get to know.

One of my friends knows and he doesn't treat me any differently. I don't think he really cares, to be honest, since we've slept in the same bed even when he knew so.

I don't really want to TELL my parents I'm gay because I shouldn't have to. Like I've said before, nipple clamps and cream in the kitchen. [and the kitchen at our other house is perfect for what I want to do :3]


----------



## Minish

My mum knows I'm not straight, but she doesn't really know what else I am and tries to avoid the subject as much as possible. She's actually gone back to pretending she didn't know in the first place, saying stuff like, 'oh I can't wait until you have kids' or 'don't marry a fat bloke, okay? :('

My dad has absolutely no idea as far as I know, and my sister... sort of doesn't give two hoots and she doesn't use phrases like 'don't be gay' at our house, so maybe she doesn't outside of the house and will grow up to be an LGBT supporter. :D It would actually be awesome if she was gay herself, although my mum might explode then.


----------



## EvilCrazyMonkey

If my parents knew I would no longer have a head. So, yeah, if they ever find out I'm not admitting to it, because it's not their business in the first place.

Anyway~ for some reason coming out at school was completely stupid, not because they tried to make fun of me, but because they tried to make fun of *only* me. Apparently I'm the only one out of at least 10 bisexuals at our school who is made fun of due to it D:
Ehh, all the assholes at school have hated me since I've moved to this school, so I'm pretty used to it; however, it does bug me when they think that making fun of people actually makes you "popular," let alone thinking that it works. :/ At least on me, I could care less about their opinions on me.


----------



## Proto_Fan

^ All the assholes have hated me since they started being assholes. I r easy target. But not as easy as my best friend, so we stupidly tag teamed one and he kicked my friend into a wall. :D

His girlfriend broke up with him and now he's miserable all because of that. >D
So, being popular because you are an asshole to people only makes you popular in your own group.

We also have a midget wrestler on our side, but my best friend has problems with him now that he said he wanted us out of our lunch table. :\
So nothing would change if I came out at school. Maybe. Probably not.


----------



## Dragon_night

^

Popularity is just an excuse to create a group of communists, following the leader without brains. 

The only difference is no one is payed equally. D:<


----------



## EvilCrazyMonkey

Apparently people think I care about their thoughts of me, so they take it out on me. It's annoying, sure, but _your thoughts mean nothing to me_.


----------



## Kaito

Aaah, I totally missed this club! ;    ; Join plz. </late>

I consider myself romantically attracted to women, and can see myself marrying, living with, and having children with a woman. However, I am _physically_ attracted to guys. I don't like labeling myself with bisexual, or homosexual, because I really couldn't care less. I am attracted to whoever I am attracted to, man or woman. I told my parents, and my friends that I'm bisexual, because it's easier than trying to explain my head space. Apparently, I'm pretty flamboyant, and most of my friends said that they sort of already knew. I'm not metrosexual though, and I don't cross dress or anything like that. 

Oh and I get teased about it almost everyday and I'm used to it :3


----------



## Dannichu

Kaito yaaay~ :3

Uuh, just to bump this a little, have this. 
I found it absolutely hilarious, but I'm easily amused, especially where puppets, singing and presidential elections are concerned XD


----------



## Angua

Oh, I forgot about this! ><

I'm bisexual and I'm actually quite proud of it. I think my mother's starting to suspect I'm gay - I've been talking a lot about homosexuality and once asked if transseuxal operations can be MtF and FtM. She just looked terrified and said that she had no idea. I've also been trying to be more masculine, but it's failing terribly.

Maybe it's because I'm bi, but I don't see how it's possible to not love someone _just because of their sex_. I mean, to me that's as shallow as only loving someone because they're pretty. Not that I'm calling all you gays and straights shallow - I just don't understand it. Could someone please explain?

*Join'd*


----------



## octobr

> I don't see how it's possible to not love someone just because of their sex


dudes are still total jerks




*GO TEAM MALE*


and also 





> transseuxal operations


 yes but the guys don't get as good a dick as the chicks get a vagina. I mean, they can actually use theirs and everything. And guys have to get a huge SKIN GRAFT off their arm which is pretty grody and even then the whole thing ain't too grand.



And don't try to be more masculine or feminine or androgynous than you really are. Relationship-wise you can get in deep shit for pretending to be someone else.


----------



## Alliniere

LONG POST WARNING

Kay, to avoid confusion, I'mma give some of the definitions for how I consider certian words.
Sex: Physical characteristics, a Vagina(female) or Penis.(Male)
Gender:The combination of traits associated with a certian sex. Females act like girls (usually) and Males and like Boys (usually)
Transexual: A person born one sex, but is truely a member of the opposite gender, no sexual pleasure from dressing as the opposite sex. Usually desires to change their body to resemble their true gender.
Drag King/Queen \ Transvestite: A person who dresses to parody, rather that become the opposite gender, often with some form of sexual pleasure from doing so. Doens't usually want to alter their body.

Alliniere is a woman... with XY Genes. I've known since childhood, but have only been trying to do anything about it for 3-4 years now. When I was a kid, I went as the pink power ranger for Halloween and would often try to play female roles when we played dress-up... I eventually conformed to society.. (shame is a great teacher v.v) and created a fake person to live as... after something pushed me too far, I tried to end my life, though over dose, and were it not for the timely arrival of a friend who knwe I was home alone, that I was depressed, and wanted to see me, I would have died, I had taken a combination of blood thinners, heavy amounts of caffiene and asprin. my blood was water, rushing waaay to fast... So I told people... my parents told me to forget it... told me to wait until I was out of their lives...that I was wrong, and troubled... They had a bad impression, due to a cousin of my mom's that transitioned from Male to female, then back, and was an ugly, unhappy mess. They, in all truth, just want me to be happy, and to have an easy, normal life. then, my dad, the one person I didn't tell, found my female clothes... forced me to get rid of them. He "forced" me to see a therapist... she was a specialist in homosexual family relations, but knew almost nothing of transexuals. She focused on mainly "why" I felt this way. There is no why. Why doesn any other woman think they are a woman? It's pretty obvious, and it's nothing to do with. One more year, and it won't matter what my parents think, I can finally begin my transition. I'm going to a camp in august, where i'll be myself for 3 whole days! Very excited... I'm lucky. I have a baby face. Even now, at 17, people ask me if i'm a boy or a girl. I avoid the question altogether and jsut say "I'm used to that, I've been getting asked it since first grade". Which is true. And depending on how I talk, they decide I'm sorely tempted to abuse that.

I don't care about gender or sex when refering to someone I like.. Maybe it's because iIm lucky enough to get to see both sides, but I really don't care about it. I like "Rachel" because she is "Rachel", not because she's a girl, and I'd like "Rachel" the same even if she was "Henry".


----------



## octobr

You don't really need to define terms beforehand... we already know all that. ><


Also from what I understand (your post was, uh, pretty scattered and confusing) you're trans the other way 'round? Welcome to the group.


Or, er, something. I've never really been one of those 'welcome' people.


----------



## Alliniere

Verne said:


> You don't really need to define terms beforehand... we already know all that. ><
> 
> 
> Also from what I understand (your post was, uh, pretty scattered and confusing) you're trans the other way 'round? Welcome to the group.
> .




To the first part: I've heard MANY, MANY different definitions, wanted to be clear on them.
To the second: I'm pretty scatterbrained, and by a certain point, I was ranting out things that I wanted to say rather than staying to a point. >>.
For clarification, I'm m-t-f.


----------



## Dragon_night

Why is it that guys want to be girls and girls want to be guys? 

I mean, I hate being a guy. Testosterone is useless, and my teenage hormones only make me do stupid things that I 'though' were good at the time. >.> I'd rather not be horny when I am, because nothing good come of it.

Although, hearing of how much girls hate their bodies, I'm not too sure I'd like to be one (because I _don't_ want to go through a period. Ever.)

Gezz, both girl and guy have fault which suck. >.> There's just no middle man person (or maybe there is...)


----------



## Alexi

> Why is it that guys want to be girls and girls want to be guys?


It's more than not just liking their physical flaws. They feel that they are not the right gender, by some strange quirk, and as such, they want to change.

Hey, m-t-f have no periods. :D


----------



## Alexi

Oh, you'll hit menopause one day. *nodnod*


----------



## Alexi

Just saying.....>.>;;;

You could have your uteris removed too. XD


----------



## octobr

Dragon_night said:


> Why is it that guys want to be girls and girls want to be guys?
> 
> I mean, I hate being a guy. Testosterone is useless, and my teenage hormones only make me do stupid things that I 'though' were good at the time. >.> I'd rather not be horny when I am, because nothing good come of it.
> 
> Although, hearing of how much girls hate their bodies, I'm not too sure I'd like to be one (because I _don't_ want to go through a period. Ever.)
> 
> Gezz, both girl and guy have fault which suck. >.> There's just no middle man person (or maybe there is...)


See the flaw in your question is in the question itself.

We aren't guys that want to be girls or vice versa; there is no real 'want to be' for us when it comes to gender, given that a transwoman _is a woman_, she just is male-bodied. 

But I understand what you're asking.


And here's the thing:

We're not thinking, jeeze, being a girl sucks! My boobs hurt, my period just came, I feel fat, and none of the boys at school like me. I wish I were a guy! 

Because seriously that's shallow as hell. 

I'm thinking -- being a girl is all right: plenty of girls do it fantastically, and they're happy... being a guy isn't that great either, I mean, their lives suck just as much as girls' do. But all the same I shouldn't be stuck as a girl. I'm a dude, dude.



Also middle man androgyny hurr.





> Hey, m-t-f have no periods. :D


YOU KNOW WHAT shush. (guess who just got his last night. As he was having a nice conversation. blah blah blah.)


----------



## Keltena

Angua said:


> Maybe it's because I'm bi, but I don't see how it's possible to not love someone _just because of their sex_. I mean, to me that's as shallow as only loving someone because they're pretty. Not that I'm calling all you gays and straights shallow - I just don't understand it. Could someone please explain?


Well, I personally don't see how it's possible not to _love_ someone because of their body (although there are of course people who do so this probably isn't helping), but it's way possible to not be physically attracted to someone because of their body, and that's just not something you can control. I'm attracted to guys and girls, but I'm pretty sure I'm not attracted to any other sexes, so while I could theoretically fall in love with, say, someone intersexed, I couldn't exactly control whether I was attracted to them or not...?

...concision is obviously not on my side today. I... hope that made some sense?


----------



## Mr Marzipan

Uuh, sign me up. I'm Bi. I used to be in doubt and it could of gone either way, but no. Both genders are good.

I did plan to write more than this...but I'm just not in the mood right now ¬-¬


----------



## Angua

Both genders are good; Freema is better.

...Sorry. You said you weren't in the mood. I've been having difficulty-

Scratch that. I haven't been able to write lately. Or sprite. Or eat or sleep. When I joined, I had this huge post planned, but it came out as two incomprehensible paragraphs. Whatever's wrong with me, you've got it too, so I can sympathise. Not that that'll help. I just hope it goes away soon.


----------



## Dragon_night

> We're not thinking, jeeze, being a girl sucks! My boobs hurt, my period just came, I feel fat, and none of the boys at school like me. I wish I were a guy!
> 
> Because seriously that's shallow as hell.


I didn't mean it to come out like that XP I just meant, I hear of girl wanting to be boy's because they're gender isn't 'right' for them, and then I here boy's saying the same thing, because of the fault their gender's have.

And, when I said 'hearing of how much girls hate their bodies' I mean their gender, not because their too fat, or don't have this or that.


----------



## Koji

Gaybo wishing to join. :p

Time for me to gay it up! :D

So there's this one guy I know who may or may not like me, but I like him, but we're really good friends. And I don't want to wreck the friendship if he doesn't like me. What do I do!


----------



## octobr

should i chant some dark magic to revive this 

NECROMANCER anyways.



I just wanted this to live. I could babble at you guys about the _woes_ associated with having all female friends that support me being girly and also being in dance and liking ballet and pointe and finding out I'll have a solo in two years that's hypergirly and flirtatious _but hella fun_ and impressive ... 

but other than the minibabbling I just used as an excuse, hoho, I won't.

What do you guys think of the name koby? :V


----------



## Dragon_night

> What do you guys think of the name koby? :V


It sounds kind of cute, and it reminds me of something. Although I don't think I've heard of it before.

Oh, and it's not capitalized x3


----------



## OrngSumb

Koby is real nice. I have a friend named Coby but I like Koby better. Go with it Verne


----------



## Wilcox

INTERRUPT TIME
Not gay/bi/whatever
But I support
So can I join?
When the party starts jumpin' and I get wasted, I'll let anybody hit on me regardless of gender if it makes me feel like I'm wanted.

D:


----------



## Dark_star

Uh, can I join. I'm not sure what my sexuality is, because I've never done anything with the same sex, so... Uh, can I join anyway?


----------



## Harlequin

You don't have to have sex with a man/woman to be gay, you know.


----------



## Harlequin

Angua said:


> Oh, I forgot about this! ><
> 
> I'm bisexual and I'm actually quite proud of it. I think my mother's starting to suspect I'm gay - I've been talking a lot about homosexuality and once asked if transseuxal operations can be MtF and FtM. She just looked terrified and said that she had no idea. I've also been trying to be more masculine, but it's failing terribly.
> 
> *Maybe it's because I'm bi, but I don't see how it's possible to not love someone just because of their sex. I mean, to me that's as shallow as only loving someone because they're pretty. Not that I'm calling all you gays and straights shallow - I just don't understand it. Could someone please explain?*
> 
> *Join'd*


Because vaginas really, really, really don't make me aroused. They even go so far as to turn me off. I don't get repulsed by them, it's just rather hard to keep an erection when there's one near/I can see one/I think of one. It's just *not my thing* and I am *not attracted* to them.

I'm attracted to men because of what they are - they have qualities that no woman has, you know. Namely a penis. They also [generally] lack boobs and have masculine bodies. 

I don't dislike women because they're women; I dislike them because they're not men. There's a difference.

[also dislike means "am not attracted to"]


----------



## octobr

LIIIIVE anyways


So here's my dilemma: I would love to get a binder, and I've found one that's supposed to be very good and is only like 30 bucks. But. I don't really want to approach my mom and ask, since she'd ... yeah. 

Problem is that no matter what I'd have to go through her to buy it. 

Anyone got any ideas? I figure it'd be just as awkward trying to buy something to act as a makeshift binder since they're usually like tight spandexy shorts or waist trimmers. 


AND ALSO THIS MIGHT BE A BADLY DISGUISED WAY TO REVIVE THIS THREAD i like it :c


----------



## Kinova

I'd, er, like to join. In support and stuff, because as far as I can tell I'm not LGBT, but asexual. I guess. I lurk this thread on a regular basis and read stuff that's relevant to me, but when it comes down to it I've never found anyone/thing either sexually or romantically attractive, sooo... that sort of speaks for itself. In the past I've refrained form joining here because a lot of it's about stuff I really don't _get_, but as the thread seems to be dying (and as I said, it's my favorite place to lurk) I thought I'd volunteer some jumbled thoughts to, uh, wake the place up. Yes.

I suppose the acceptance thing is the same for LGBT and asexuals, though. Like, um, the whole "One day when you're all grown up with a lovely husband/wife and children etc..." which I hear from family quite often is really no fun, which would also apply to homosexuals, right? And other things like "OMG you've never had a boyfriend we HAVE to find you a boyfriend" and the resulting "Eheh... no."

Verne, I would think the best thing to do would just be to tell her you're going to buy them; if she's going to have to be involved then you don't have much of a choice. Also she's going to have to get used to this sort of thing so... I don't know, putting it off isn't really going to help.

Hum, I cannot type coherently~ I'm pretty much done so I'll just stand over here. *SUPPORT AND RAMBLES AVAILABLE*


----------



## octobr

I guess you're right. It's just awkward going DARLING MOTHER~ may i please have something that smooshes my boobs down


And welcome, I suppose. :B Asexuality never made much sense to me (I mean, the whole big deal around it) but I guess you put it into perspective. I guess it's just that I partially fall under that category and just never really gave a crap. O well.


----------



## Alliniere

It really upsets me that i'll never have periods, never know what it is to carry my own child, and deliver life into the world.. My female friends that know, they think i'm a little stupid for wanting to go through that every month. I dunno, I'm just hoping to get to the point where I have better things to talk about than being trans, and that, other than people that NEED to know (doctors, ect) nobody will, and they can just look at me as the woman I know i've always been.


In other news, I went out in public as myself the other day. it was a nerve wracking experience, but no strange looks, so i'll take the best I can out of that, and hope it gets easier... It... was really nice though, and I felt this sort of calm (as all my insides were shaking in fear, somehow) this 'rightness' to everyone just seeing the true me ^^.


----------



## octobr

No, seriously.

Periods are hell. No one likes them. No one wants them. You bleed for five days and you _won't die._ Also, cramps. Also, BLEEDING FROM THE VAGINA. I mean, I understand your identity but srrrsly.

SORT OF RELEVANTLY Venus Envy's new style sucks.


----------



## Harlequin

But Verne, you don't want periods because you're a guy, and girls don't want them because they're annoying, but someone who is a girl but will never be able to experience such a large part of womanhood - babies and bleeding from the cunt - would want them, cramps and all.


----------



## octobr

Yeah that's crazy. CRAZY.


Also today I made a total fool of myself. Well, to me anyway. We went to old navy, we being mom, Jon, and I, and I couldn't work up the courage to go to the guy's section. What?


----------



## Harlequin

:[ well you should have just gone there

that's like a prerequisite to being a guy. 

wearing guys' clothes I mean

UNLESS YOU'RE A TRANSVESTITE


----------



## octobr

; ; it's hard man

I mean there's all these people staring

and my mom who doesn't really get it at all (I mean she asked me today why there were transsexuals that were gay. hay mom gender does not equate to sexuality)

and my intimidating jerk brother.


----------



## Vladimir Putin's LJ

Verne said:


> SORT OF RELEVANTLY Venus Envy's new style sucks.


Totally. Especially Lisa's face in that sideways panel- what the hell. Speaking of comics, some LGBT ones I really like and I think haven't been brought up yet are Straight Ahead and Khaos. Khaos is doing a pretty interesting FtM storyline right now.

About the binder, Verne, I suppose you could say it's for something. I know you're a dancer and you don't need a flat chest for that, so I can't help much. The only sports I can see where a binder would be sort of normal to have is running or martial arts. If you were in a theater club or a play you could always claim you're auditioning for a male role and thus need to hide breasts but um :I
Were you getting the impression people were staring at you or did you actually see them look?

In Vlad's uninteresting news: since I'm getting a short haircut and usually wear waiscoats and ties my mum calls me a transvestite now. Aaand my dad was vaguely threatning when I implied I was confused so I left it alone. Also trying to lose weight to have less of an hour-glass figure. this will not work.


----------



## octobr

Vladimir Putin's LJ said:


> Totally. Especially Lisa's face in that sideways panel- what the hell. Speaking of comics, some LGBT ones I really like and I think haven't been brought up yet are Straight Ahead and Khaos. Khaos is doing a pretty interesting FtM storyline right now.
> 
> About the binder, Verne, I suppose you could say it's for something. I know you're a dancer and you don't need a flat chest for that, so I can't help much. The only sports I can see where a binder would be sort of normal to have is running or martial arts. If you were in a theater club or a play you could always claim you're auditioning for a male role and thus need to hide breasts but um :I
> Were you getting the impression people were staring at you or did you actually see them look?
> 
> In Vlad's uninteresting news: since I'm getting a short haircut and usually wear waiscoats and ties my mum calls me a transvestite now. Aaand my dad was vaguely threatning when I implied I was confused so I left it alone. Also trying to lose weight to have less of an hour-glass figure. this will not work.


That shot of Lisa is horrendous. And what happened to Larson's noselines? I liked larson's noselines. Larson was my _hero_ (especially in that arc with the school dance where he got the dumb cheerleader to sleep with him. uh.). And his noselines were part of that hero.  

And that's a good idea -- shame we don't have any real theatery things outside of high school, here. I could just _force her to buy it for me_ where did i put the rope

MAINLY it was just me being freaking paranoid. 

also waistcoats vests ties aweifpawef want it all but i am too much a freak to buy them myself c:. WAY TO HAVE SELF-ESTEEM go team verne


And I wouldn't really try to lose weight, since that'd probably just make you look like ... a skinny hourglass. Then again, I'm not sure of an alternative (exercise, I guess? That's what I'm hoping for -- I'm starting what appears to be a pretty intense conditioning class during my next dance year, so I hope that removes some of the giant-hips-skinny-arms problem).






I like this comic already. And I've read a whole _page._


----------



## Vladimir Putin's LJ

Pfff I wear waistcoats and ties and band jackets all the time so everyone probably thinks I'm a lesbian at school BUT WHO CARES and anyway they feel nice :V
I think that like you said, it looks like you have a self-esteem problem. Try to remind yourself that people often mind their own business and won't look at you. Every time I buy male clothing or gay magazines I feel like people are staring but they only really do if you start acting uncomfortable, because that attracts attention.



> And I wouldn't really try to lose weight, since that'd probably just make you look like ... a skinny hourglass. Then again, I'm not sure of an alternative (exercise, I guess? That's what I'm hoping for -- I'm starting what appears to be a pretty intense conditioning class during my next dance year, so I hope that removes some of the giant-hips-skinny-arms problem).


Yeah, I'm not going on a diet, I'm getting a gym pass to exercise. I need to anyway since I recently discovered I have one leg shorter than the other (what) and this is causing back trouble so I need stronger muscles. And a longer leg but I'm not sure how that'll be arranged :v


Straight Ahead and Khaos are both great but I'm assuming you're talking about Khaos and it is indeed very good.


----------



## octobr

I was talking about both. I know that if I don't start both at the same time I'll just end up forgetting about one of them. 

If they sold good clothes like that for relatively cheap anywhere around here I would be all over it. Unfortunately, all we have are ... old navy, and stores that try really hard to be ghetto. Naturally I shop at the latter, because dammit they have t-shirts with robots on them.


And really it's less anyone else thinking things than my mom standing behind me and saying things like 'YOU KNOW I SUPPORT YOU IN YOUR NONGENDEREDNESS' _really loudly._ By the by, she actually said that. In a small shoe store. I APPRECIATE THE SUPPORT MOM, but seriously. 




You should get a peg leg. A peg leg extension. A peg legstension.


----------



## Alliniere

At least she's supportive >>. Only time my parents ever brought my transexualism up is as follows:

We're in a cramped car. 7 people in a 4 person car. my dad's driving, my cousin beside him, in the middle, and my brother beside him. Then, my other brother, who is just under 300 pounds is in the back seat with me, and 2 of my other cousins. Because my brother spreads EVERYTHING out as far as he can, to be comfortable, both of my cousins are pretty much on my lap. So I tell him to, you know, put his legs together so we have room to breathe. My dad responds, in a car where  the only people that know I'm female are myself, and him (who doesn't believ or agree with it) as such.
"I can't do that, (my name), if I tried to put my legs close together, i'd crush my balls, and *I*  want to keep mine."
Now, maybe i'm being unfair, but it seemed like he was taking a stab at me, in a situation, where if I reply, most of my family finds out, and that is NOT a pleasant thought.

We pretty much just make sure to not talk about not talking about it. other than this one issue, i'm really close with my parents.


----------



## octobr

*shrugs* I mean, it sucks having your family disagree with you ... it's just as weird when you tell your mom 'by the by, I'm not the gender you thought I was' and for her to go practically 'that's nice dear.' 

My mom ... doesn't quite understand. When I first told her she thought I was some sort of crossdresser and handwaved it as just teenage behavior. I keep trying to explain it but I'm using terms I understand instead of those she would understand. 

Because it feels wrong saying 'I want to be a boy' when I know it's really 'I am a boy.'




Also you should teach your brother that chicks don't have to be wimps and punch him in the groin. Or one night hang flesh-colored superballs with blood painted on them and leave a note telling him you did the honors of castrating him. 

I'm not too inventive. Do something. Brothers are jerks.


----------



## Furiianda

I'll join! Hooray! (:
(Nothing actually worthwhile to say at this point in time. I'll try again later...)


----------



## Harlequin

seriously you gays stop failing at being active ; ;


----------



## surskitty

I have... come to a conclusion as to what label I shall apply to myself.

_Gender-confused asexual._  i'm sure you're all shocked :<


----------



## Harlequin

so you're still asexual but now you don't know if you're a man or a woman

i c


----------



## spaekle

My parents call me '_little girl_'. It's probably one of the most fucking annoying things they do. (Aside from their INCREDIBLY FREAKING RELIGIOUS CONSERVATIVE VIEWS, at least. And their paranoid overprotective-ness.) I don't even acknowledge they're talking to me when they say it any more. 

I got my hair cut. It's chin-length, so I guess it could be a lot shorter, but at least it's kind of an ambiguous style? Also my friend got me some mens' boxers. They're way too big though. :( 

I've considered Oliver my guy name for about 2 years now, but now I'm kind of starting to like Ivan. Ivan can't be shortened to anything stupid, but people shorten Oliver to 'Ollie' and that's kinda not cool. I'll probably stick with Oliver but :V.


----------



## Dannichu

You don't want to be called Oliver. Well, actually, you're past primary school age so you might be okay, but many kids have suffered horribly at the hands of the musical Oliver!. X3

Ivan is cool, though.


----------



## spaekle

Dannichu said:


> You don't want to be called Oliver. Well, actually, you're past primary school age so you might be okay, but many kids have suffered horribly at the hands of the musical Oliver!. X3
> 
> Ivan is cool, though.


O-LI-VER~! O-LI-VER~!
NEVER BEFORE HAS A BOY WANTED MORE!
O-LI-VER~! O-LI-VER~!
WON'T ASK FOR MORE WHEN HE KNOWS WHAT'S IN STORE!
THERE'S A DARK, THIN, WINDING STAIRWAY WITHOUT ANY BANISTER!
WE'LL THROW HIM DOWN AND FEED HIM ON COCKROACHES SERVED IN A CANISTER~!

My friends already make references, and it's pretty cool. At least the song's catchy! :p


----------



## Jolty

I swear I'm the only one a-ok with my gender
even though I'm not very womanly :B

When I did work experience in a primary school, some of the kids called me Miss and it was AWESOME


----------



## octobr

Jolty said:


> I swear I'm the only one a-ok with my gender
> even though I'm not very womanly :B
> 
> When I did work experience in a primary school, some of the kids called me Miss and it was AWESOME


isn't that something to be proud of

It's not like you can blame us. lgbt is really starting to make itself known, it's loads easier to figure yourself out now. not to say it's easy. but. You know what I mean. 

also here is something humorous whenever someone says 'transgender umbrella' i picture literally an umbrella. Of the purple variety. We're fabulous.




also surskoots has always transcended gender boundaries. it is the way of the surskoot.







lol school starts today i considered just overdosing on ~something~ last night so I wouldn't have to go but I was lazy. it sucks cause I got away with a lot of people just using my name since usually I hang out with chicks anyways, so 'she' doesn't particularly help. But now I'm gonna get a lot of it, and I have no chance of really passing cause of those ~INTRODUCE YOURSELF~ things and also my name go team.


buh. Did get a therapist, though, who put me on antidepressants, but doesn't seem majorly comfortable with the transgender idea (don't blame her; i'm not particularly cozy with it either). Antidepressants so I don't get back into self-injury like last year. Hope to God it works cause I don't like being in that sorta place.


Today's word is phalanx.


----------



## Harlequin

well uh introduce yourself as ... malename. Or something, idk. 

I DON'T HAVE THIS PROBLEM. :|


----------



## surskitty

Verne said:


> also here is something humorous whenever someone says 'transgender umbrella' i picture literally an umbrella. Of the purple variety. We're fabulous.


 And sparkly!  SPARKLETEXT





> also surskoots has always transcended gender boundaries. it is the way of the surskoot.


 Oh, of course.




> lol school starts today i considered just overdosing on ~something~ last night so I wouldn't have to go but I was lazy. it sucks cause I got away with a lot of people just using my name since usually I hang out with chicks anyways, so 'she' doesn't particularly help. But now I'm gonna get a lot of it, and I have no chance of really passing cause of those ~INTRODUCE YOURSELF~ things and also my name go team.


 D8 That sucks~





> buh. Did get a therapist, though, who put me on antidepressants, but doesn't seem majorly comfortable with the transgender idea (don't blame her; i'm not particularly cozy with it either). Antidepressants so I don't get back into self-injury like last year. Hope to God it works cause I don't like being in that sorta place.


MAROON I kind of want to just give you a big hug :[!

Phalanx is a good word.


----------



## octobr

Phalanx is a good word.

It turned out to be a pretty good day, gender shit aside. Besides I have an awesome shirt on. 

I ended up telling a good few of my teachers just to call me Bruno cause usually there's multiple sarahs anyways.


Also being the only straight guy in an all-girls gym class? Not so shabby.




ALSO AND SPARKLY actually I bet the umbrella's sort of see-through too. See through purple sparkles. whoo


----------



## Harlequin

what about the entire LGBTQ umbrella? That's got to be one hella-scary umbrella.

Like, woah.


----------



## Old Catch

Joining as bi- or pansexual. Anyone know the exact difference between them?


----------



## Flazeah

As far as I know, a person who is bisexual is attracted to both genders, and a person who is pansexual is attracted to people regardless of gender.

 And welcome to the club, Catch-22. :D


----------



## octobr

pansexual is bisexual, except SPESHUL.

Yep.


----------



## Zeph

I think Pansexual is where you can love anyone whether they are male, female, both or none.


----------



## Chimera

That's basically what it is, yeah.

Anyway, hi! Joining as pansexual~ I just realized I can join you guys now. :D; ... Y'know, thinking about it, there never really was any real sort of gender distinction for me, I was just attracted to whatever I happened to be attracted to. :x I just never knew what the word for it was.


----------



## Dinru

May I please join? Panromantic here :D (Only physically attracted to males, but whatever.) Sorry if my Hetero fumes stink up the place D:

So! Contributing to conversation: To me, Panromanticism/Pansexuality is loving/being attracted to/screwing anyone, totally gender/sexblind.


----------



## Old Catch

The I'm joining as pansexual, I think. I wonder who decided it needed its own special term.



> And welcome to the club, Catch-22. :D


Thanks. ^^


----------



## octobr

Dinru said:


> May I please join? Panromantic here :D (Only physically attracted to males, but whatever.) Sorry if my Hetero fumes stink up the place D:
> 
> So! Contributing to conversation: To me, Panromanticism/Pansexuality is loving/being attracted to/screwing anyone, totally gender/sexblind.


Hey, yo, I'm straight.


----------



## nyuu

Verne said:


> Hey, yo, I'm straight.


mommy that weird boy who only likes girls is back, help! D:


----------



## Dinru

Verne said:


> Hey, yo, I'm straight.


But your trans fumes cancel out your hetero fumes. Trans fumes smell like nice. Hetero fumes (without the accompaniment of trans fumes) are just bleh.


----------



## octobr

Dinru said:


> But your trans fumes cancel out your hetero fumes. Trans fumes smell like nice. Hetero fumes (without the accompaniment of trans fumes) are just bleh.


Hey, pal... that hurts. Deep inside. 

No, seriously, watch your words. I like my nongay. And I'm trying not to think about the whole trans thing. The less I ~have~ to think about it, the better.


of course.

that would be easier if I could work up the courage to ask mom if I could buy a binder. Yeah.


----------



## Dinru

Verne said:


> Hey, pal... that hurts. Deep inside.
> 
> No, seriously, watch your words. I like my nongay. And I'm trying not to think about the whole trans thing. The less I ~have~ to think about it, the better.
> 
> 
> of course.
> 
> that would be easier if I could work up the courage to ask mom if I could buy a binder. Yeah.


Oh no, I'm very very sorry! I did not mean to offend you or hurt you. I will remember that in the future. I'm sorry.

Bleh, I feel horrible now. Sorry again. :(


----------



## surskitty

Topicchange back to transparent purple sparkly umbrellas.


----------



## Alexi

Wish I had one. I'd be rockin' it at school. :D


----------



## surskitty

it's the sparkly purple umbrella of gay

or trans

or bi

or confused


but mostly sparkly


----------



## octobr

surskitty said:


> it's the sparkly purple umbrella of gay
> 
> or trans
> 
> or bi
> 
> or confused
> 
> 
> but mostly sparkly


Sparkly is the best color ever.


GG --

"Hey person 1.

Uh.

I dig you.

xoxoxoxoxoxoxoxoxoxo
xo
xoxo?
-gardevoir girl."


AND VERNE FAILS AGAIN


----------



## Flazeah

If you think it'd be easier to tell Person 1, then you probably should. You said they haven't returned your feelings, so it's not like you're obliged to be really gentle for fear of hurting them because you're sort of with them or they're expecting to be with you sometime soon or anything. You could change the email if you think it sounds stupid, although that might just be, um... "email vision", for lack of a better phrase. You know - you keep reading it and it eventually starts to sound stupid to you because you've read it so much? Or something.

 That advice probably sucked, but good luck anyway.


----------



## Alexi

I know from experience, you should be upfront and honest. Tell Person 1 that, while you are still deeply in love with Person 1, you also have feelings growing for someone else. If Person 1 does not share your feelings like you think, then he may take this well anyway, and if not, then hey. He can get over it. He's caused a lot of drama in your life.


----------



## octobr

Oh, let me edit my email then.

"Dear Person 1,

I dig you, and also this other person. Person 2.

Yeah.

xoxoxoooxooxoxxxx, 

GG"


----------



## Harlequin

okay so when someone keeps eye contact with you all the way through a conversation and sneaks looks at you IS HE SECRETLY GAY

answer: probably not especially when he's a total male slut [w/girls]

HARLE YOU SUCK FOR WANTING WHAT YOU CAN'T HAVE


----------



## octobr

HARLE IS A FAG! Can I get away with saying that? cause it's true. I got nothing else to say here.


----------



## octobr

What is wrong with you guys.


So today I effectively came out to one of my best friends.


----------



## nyuu

Harlequin said:


> what about the entire LGBTQ umbrella? That's got to be one hella-scary umbrella.
> 
> Like, woah.


Like, woah. that's got to be one hella-awesome umbrella.

Verne, how did that work out?


----------



## octobr

Uh. I dunno yet. Given I did it by way of messy little note (by the by I really hope she can read it) and ran away as soon as I gave it to her.

Hurr.


----------



## surskitty

Good luck, Veroon!  MAY EVERYTHING WORK OUT OKAY okay

[clapclap]


----------



## octobr

It's kinda scary though cause I have all weekend to freak out and worry about what her reaction will be.


----------



## Keltena

Even if you're worried, that's still awesome for you, Verne. I'm sure she'll be fine with it, probably just will need some time adjusting.

I'm so excited for school to start; in high school we have an LGBT club (or, as they call it, G.L.A.S.S.) That, and a Tetris Club. =D


----------



## octobr

I wish we had some sort of lgbt/gsa club. I mean, not that I'd probably go, but it'd be nice to have the option. We don't have a hell of a lot of gay in our school though, so. 

And today I get to go to therapy... lately I've been a lot better, depression-wise, though, so I'm like lol I need to come up with something bad to happen since I feel like I'm wasting her time and my mom's money when I have nothing to talk about. :B And I don't like to talk specifically about being, yanno, transgender because I feel sorta self-centered and obnoxious when I do. I know I probably should talk more, it's good for both of us because for me it is my therapy session hur and for the therapist it lets her learn as well and I'm just babbling blah blah blah.

She is cool though cause I don't really ... have anyone else to talk to about this. She lets me bounce names off of her and has suggestions and stuff which is cool -- I think she actually gets it.


Also I get to go to the bookstore! Huzzah!


----------



## Aobaru

I'll join as a supporter. But I'm not gay. Really. :0


----------



## octobr

Well no bad reaction yet which is kewl. 


Also I'm annoyed by the lack of updates on venus envy and khaos.


----------



## Vladimir Putin's LJ

Verne said:


> Well no bad reaction yet which is kewl.
> 
> 
> Also I'm annoyed by the lack of updates on venus envy and khaos.


Am I the only one who thinks that for someone who spent years in art college

Erin's still not doing super-well on a bunch of technical issues.
Still, the art is a lot better than that first post-hiatus strip with crazy deformed Lisa.
And yeah I'm annoyed at the lack of updates as well, though I check Khaos more often. I think Tab's doing a cosplay or something and that's why she's not updating I dunno I'm not into cosplay :v

I'm glad Straight Ahead's gonna go back to its regular schedule though.

Also, by 'no bad reaction' does that mean she's reacted well or not at all? Feel free not to tell, I'm just nosy.

Also shorter hair feels so much free-er aaaah


----------



## octobr

No, her art is ... weird. I mean -- the old style wasn't exactly technically fabulous, either, but at least it was lighthearted and fun and it was like 'this is a comic, not an art exam.' This one is more like 'um lol i can draw chins!'

Lol again @ lisa's double chin of angry, though.

Khaos is pretty cool, I'm glad you introduced me to it -- it's neat and scribbly and I want a tattoo more now.

And by no bad reaction I mean she's not reacted at all. Hrm. I wonder if she's even read the letter yet -- naturally I don't want to bring it up because I'd feel like that'd be pushy.


Also short hair whooooooop.


----------



## Eevee

Verne said:


> Also I'm annoyed by the lack of updates on venus envy and khaos.


christ good luck with that

venus envy is like three strips into the current storyline and it's been running for two years

I gave up reading it a while ago


----------



## Jason-Kun

I'm a straight man who supports gays. Join?


----------



## Keltena

Hi, Jason-with-the-Karmageddon-avatar! I do believe I know you from the NTWF... Anyway, welcome~ n_n


----------



## Jason-Kun

Salamander said:


> Hi, Jason-with-the-Karmageddon-avatar! I do believe I know you from the NTWF... Anyway, welcome~ n_n


XDDDDD Salamander~! Yes it is I Jason NTWFer extraordinare!


----------



## surskitty

So I got chinese takeout today.

And guess what my fortune cookie says?  Well, since I'm posting it here, you can probably guess, but! ":) You and your wife willbe [sic] happy in your life together.  :)"

... huh.


----------



## Old Catch

surskitty said:


> So I got chinese takeout today.
> 
> And guess what my fortune cookie says?  Well, since I'm posting it here, you can probably guess, but! ":) You and your wife willbe [sic] happy in your life together.  :)"
> 
> ... huh.


:O! A sign.  

Hey, what do you call someone that has no sexual attractions? I've been wondering for a while. I don't think 'asexual' gives off the right feeling...


----------



## surskitty

... asexual?

aromantic asexual if you're uninterested in general; [hetero|homo|bi|pan]romantic asexual otherwise


----------



## octobr

Teh gay is upon you, surskitty. do not resist.


----------



## Alexi

You guys do fail at staying active. D: Well, I'm just gonna say this: Man, I am confused. ?_?


----------



## octobr

Lol activity is for the weak.

And we're not weak, we're queer.


----------



## octobr

Goddammit guys, stay alive. I really wanna talk to y'all. :c


----------



## Alexi

I agree with the above statement.

SO, Verne, what's new?


----------



## octobr

That is a question i have pondered for many a year.

What is snew.


----------



## Flazeah

Uh, since National - or international, whatever you want to call it - Coming Out Day is coming up... is anyone planning to do anything? Like wear an LGBT symbol or go to a parade or anything?


----------



## Harlequin

so uh gays

I'm fairly sure I have it in with a gay, hooray gayness.


----------



## Keltena

Flazeah said:


> Uh, since National - or international, whatever you want to call it - Coming Out Day is coming up... is anyone planning to do anything? Like wear an LGBT symbol or go to a parade or anything?


I'm going to wear rainbow (well, whatever I can find that's vaguely rainbow, anyway). I don't think I have school that day, though, which is sad. But still.

I officially have the best birthday ever. :D


----------



## Harlequin

I'm doing nothing for it! I guess I should probably come out but uh.


----------



## Dinru

I have a rainbow turtleneck sweater that I shall wear :D Oh, and stripy tights and my black skirt! I will wear it on the 10th, however, as I doubt I'll be going anywhere on the actual 11th...


----------



## octobr

I didn't know there was such a thing.

Hell no.


----------



## Ayame

May I join?  I'd like to talk to you guys, maybe attempt to keep this thread from the brink of deadness- and I think I am bisexual, because you know, that whole 'crush on my best friend' thing. 
I just can't seem to get any farther.  I told a few friends, and they reacted well, but it was all in an Instant Messenger spurt (I'm such a geek) and I had this weird venting feeling that day...
I never hang out with my friends anymore.  I am really alone.  I just- you, know, I might just like the romantic aspect of it.  I have no idea, but she seems to be, in my mind, the best thing since sliced bread.
I've never even mentioned being gay in real life, except over Instant Messenger.
I can't tell my parents.
Uh, and hello, stop venting, be cheerful, prepare to be welcomed to the club?
Sorry, I'm stupid tonight.


----------



## octobr

Nah we're all dumb sometimes. It's a'ight.


SO GUYS YESTERDAY was homecoming and I kicked major ass and also I think I developed a fanclub of screaming girls. Because I actually danced to all the songs (god i was disgusting by the end of the night seriously dripping sweat glasses kept slipping off ew) and they were all EEE YOU ARE AWESOME EEE.

I was like 'lol, sry?'

But yeah, I was awesome. To be egoistic. For serious. Naturally I'm the one who's not wearing a cute little dress.

Long story short, it was major fun. The guy at the door almost wouldn't let me in cause in my ID I still have long hair.

Then I had a waffle, bacon, and milkshake and went home and passed out. And now I am blessed with wondrous memories.


----------



## Harlequin

well verne dancing is gay. UR GAY. IM GAY. WERE ALL GAY. except for surskitty whos liek idk somethin else.

And now that that's over with, I accidentally came out yesterday ... twice. 

To the same person. 

I'm thinking he realises but idk. Or care, really.


----------



## Vladimir Putin's LJ

Verne you're such a pimp.
Oh oh and I totally want that outfit man. All of my waistcoats and shirts are monochromatic and boring as hell.
Homecoming sounds like a lot of fun. We don't have that kind of stuff where I come from, boohoohoo.

On an unrelated note my parents aren't letting me cut my hair anymore so I'm stuck with what I thought would be a temporary mid-long haircut.
I mean it'd okay if I were doing an Oscar Wilde cosplay but in everyday life it's not really manly :v

And Harle if that person's not reacting to it much it's okay I guess? And if it was with that werewolf thing then it's a pretty cool way of outing yourself.


----------



## octobr

Oscar Wilde was imprisoned for the gay on my birthday. Rock out!

Whoop go gay people. What werewolf thing.


Also totally bought my suit for 19 bucks at this cheap store in the mall. apparently i'm size 18 in little boy numbers.


----------



## Vladimir Putin's LJ

Yeah well my birthday's two days after his brithday. October is the month of cool guys.

Also regarding the werewolf thing


			
				Harlequin in that thread about gays in the debating hall said:
			
		

> Apparently we're werewolves, too, and can only die when shot by a silver bullet. I'm seriously not making this up.
> 
> [Incidentally I accidentally outed myself to that quote. I was like "wait so I'm a werewolf now?" to some guy I was talking to. oops.]


----------



## Harlequin

well it's okay because he's a gay himself so he wouldn't really react. Plus he a) doesn't care probably and b) might just think I'm being weird which uh, isn't too surprising.

ANYWAY lately I've just been feeling all "you know what I'm gay who cares" (which is what I've been feeling for a while anyway) but it's gradually turning into "dude why not just come out, then you can have gay sex in your bedroom and your mother won't be suspicious."


----------



## octobr

Your mom'll probably be suspicious, she'll just be too heartbroken about your gay to do anything. 

Moms. So predictable.


----------



## Harlequin

No, she wouldn't actually care I mean. She already thought I was at one point but I lied to her (because it was funny, not because I wasn't "ready" to come out) and now she thinks I'm like, Asperger's and stuff.


----------



## surskitty

Harlequin said:


> except for surskitty whos liek idk somethin else.


i think i like myself

except for when i don't


----------



## Harlequin

what so you're autosexual

except when you're not

WAY TO FIGURE IT OUT!


----------



## surskitty

I KNOW RIGHT


----------



## octobr

wow you should be on that nickelodeon show of the same name


mainly cause amanda bynes is adorable when she's eleven


----------



## EvilCrazyMonkey

Regarding National Coming Out Day ugh
I honestly don't care what my family thinks about me.
I'd rather not get disowned.
Catholo-antihomonazi
SUCKS SO MUCH


----------



## spaekle

I might come out on Coming Out Day, but not this Coming Out Day. Perhaps on a Coming Out Day many years away when I'm supporting myself and don't have to do anything my parents tell me to any more. I doubt they'd disown me or anything that severe, but they are like "*CONSERVATIVE!!!!!*" and very against these kinds of things, and I _can_ see my life becoming a living hell over it. Either that, or they'd just shrug it off as being a phase. I'm not really sure which is more annoying.


----------



## Ayame

Spaekle Oddberry said:


> I might come out on Coming Out Day, but not this Coming Out Day. Perhaps on a Coming Out Day many years away when I'm supporting myself and don't have to do anything my parents tell me to any more. I doubt they'd disown me or anything that severe, but they are like "*CONSERVATIVE!!!!!*" and very against these kinds of things, and I _can_ see my life becoming a living hell over it. Either that, or they'd just shrug it off as being a phase. I'm not really sure which is more annoying.


Oh no, not conservative.  God, where I live is pretty much conservative, rich people with their beautiful houses and conservative votes...
If I came out gay, they'd probably give me dirty looks, to say the least.
But you know, I like my county and city.  It gets nonrealistic television shows based off of it. :D
Anyhow, I remember my former friend.  Her parents thought all liberal people were evil, and bad, and told her that.  She was forcefed exaggerations and lies and believed it all.
If I told her I was gay, she'd be like, "You're going to go to hell! D:"
 I would come out to her over the phone for the heck of it, but I'm afraid she would tell her parents or spread a rumor about it, or just absolute hate me.
Like I said, former friend here.


----------



## EvilCrazyMonkey

Holy fuck I am fed up with the people at my school.
They scream "GAYS OF NOT MY GENDER ARE HOT HOWEVER GAYS OF MY GENDER ARE WRONG"
I fucking hate it when people do that.


----------



## Keltena

EvilCrazyMonkey said:


> Holy fuck I am fed up with the people at my school.
> They scream "GAYS OF NOT MY GENDER ARE HOT HOWEVER GAYS OF MY GENDER ARE WRONG"
> I fucking hate it when people do that.


That drives me _insane_. I remember once a couple of my girl friends from karate were reading a shounen-ai book with pictures, and this guy in our class kept getting weirded out and saying stuff like, "I mean, it'd be okay if it was two _girls_ or something." God, I wanted to punch him (but I couldn't because he's a blackbelt like me.)


----------



## Dannichu

Hurr, I remember when a friend of mine mentioned, in passing, how weird gay people were and another friend said "Yeah, but you must thing lesbians are hot", to which he responded "No, not really. It's a waste of a good woman. Two, actually.". 

He's actually a very cool guy; we just disagree very strongly on a few things XD


----------



## Harlequin

yeah but what do you know danni?

*YOU'RE A WASTE OF A GOOD WOMAN*


----------



## octobr

your mom's a waste of a good woman


----------



## Harlequin

no you're a waste of a good woman's body :(


----------



## EvilCrazyMonkey

So.
These two people walk up to me in gym and ask if I'm gay; I respond "yes."
The next week, in English II, one of those people get put in my literature circle. And luckily, I'm the only guy. Right.
So the discussion of periods is brought up when we're supposed to be talking about Merlin and his comrades; someone says "oh god he doesn't want to hear this." The girl in my gym tells the other two people that I'm gay, and fangirlism attention persists. Yadda yadda, they ask who I think is hot, so I tell them the first person that comes off the top of my head. More fangirlism and "OMG"-ing; they agree with me (obviously). So today that guy I was talking about walks up to me and makes it very clear that he is straight. So apparently he thinks I have a crush on him now, which I don't; I simply think that he is attractive. Difference, and a big one of that.
No more hot guy discussion in literature circles, or just to fatmouths in general.

Also that girl in my gym: when she popped the question she started talking about how I have a lot of lesbian/female bi friends and starts talking crap about them. _Right in front of me_. I just walked away from her. Next time she states that gays are cool and lesbians are nasty – hell – when anyone states that or it with inverted genders I swear I will make their life a living hell.


----------



## octobr

Lesbians are the best thing on the planet. 

Not so much gays, cause I'm not interested in men. But two women going at it, _yes._


whoop shallow



I wish I could be out. Honest to God. No one'd listen though. Or they'd be all 'you're stupid, trans people are retarded, blah blah blah you have boobs.'

What's worse is the '_but you're so pretty!!_' approach.


----------



## Old Catch

EvilCrazyMonkey said:


> So.
> These two people walk up to me in gym and ask if I'm gay; I respond "yes."
> The next week, in English II, one of those people get put in my literature circle. And luckily, I'm the only guy. Right.
> So the discussion of periods is brought up when we're supposed to be talking about Merlin and his comrades; someone says "oh god he doesn't want to hear this." The girl in my gym tells the other two people that I'm gay, and fangirlism attention persists. Yadda yadda, they ask who I think is hot, so I tell them the first person that comes off the top of my head. More fangirlism and "OMG"-ing; they agree with me (obviously). So today that guy I was talking about walks up to me and makes it very clear that he is straight. So apparently he thinks I have a crush on him now, which I don't; I simply think that he is attractive. Difference, and a big one of that.
> No more hot guy discussion in literature circles, or just to fatmouths in general.
> 
> Also that girl in my gym: when she popped the question she started talking about how I have a lot of lesbian/female bi friends and starts talking crap about them. _Right in front of me_. I just walked away from her. Next time she states that gays are cool and lesbians are nasty – hell – when anyone states that or it with inverted genders I swear I will make their life a living hell.


D: That sucks. Unfortunately for most teenagers, thinking someone is attractive automatically means you want their babies. At least you're more mature than that, right? Ehh, sorry.


----------



## spaekle

I talk too loud in the art room so some people kind of know about me. Some chick who isn't even in art class actually had the nerve to go up to the friend I was talking to and be like "UM YEAH IS WHAT THAT ONE KID YOU HANG OUT WITH SAYS TRUE?" so I guess it's getting around, but I don't think a lot of people _get_ it. It's not really as simple as "I'm gay", and I don't think people at my school realize that transpeople aren't always mtf's. It's kind of silly.

And ugh, I hate people who are hypocritical like that. A few years ago I saw these two chicks talking about some website with GAY BOYS KISSING LIEK OMG :O!, and those were some of the same girls who acted completely disgusted when lesbians came up in health class. :\ I wish I had more balls back then. There were _many_ things I wanted to say to that whole class.


----------



## Old Catch

The guys I work with like lesbian porn but tormented this girl for liking male gay porn. o.o; So pointless, when it's the same thing. Once this lesbian couple came in and they were both gorgeous. The manager comes over to us and says, "See that? Mm-mm-mm! What a waste." 

So yeah. Just stupid.


----------



## Dannichu

HEY GUYS. I have a happy story to cheer this place up with! :D

It's not really that thrilling really, but this place is getting far to sad ):

So over a fun drinking game, a friend of mine asks me if I'm straight or bi or whatever. I say I'm gay and she is thrilled beyond belief and starts talking (on and on - drunkenly)about how I should definitely go out with one of our other friends who is also gay. It got a little embarassing, actually, but when you come out to someone and thier reaction is to hook you up with someone, you can't complain. 
Everyone else in the room was totally fine with it (and was thankfully sans the "HEY DANNI GO OUT WITH X" thing).


----------



## Harlequin

hooray danni! lesbians are silly but I'M GLAD THEY LIKE YOU or something.

I've been feeling sort of "DAMN IT PEOPLE SHOULD KNOW" lately and apparently I'm the sort of person you'd never expect to be gay so THANKS FOR MAKING IT HARD UNIVERSE, REALLY.

so I shall probably delay the coming out for a while


----------



## Old Catch

Dannichu said:


> HEY GUYS. I have a happy story to cheer this place up with! :D
> 
> It's not really that thrilling really, but this place is getting far to sad ):
> 
> So over a fun drinking game, a friend of mine asks me if I'm straight or bi or whatever. I say I'm gay and she is thrilled beyond belief and starts talking (on and on - drunkenly)about how I should definitely go out with one of our other friends who is also gay. It got a little embarassing, actually, but when you come out to someone and thier reaction is to hook you up with someone, you can't complain.
> Everyone else in the room was totally fine with it (and was thankfully sans the "HEY DANNI GO OUT WITH X" thing).


Aww, that's nice Danni. :D It must've been quite a relief.


----------



## Jason-Kun

Why's there no S for supporters in the title?

Anyways I'm straight, yeh. I'm fine with...gay people of both genders and bi people...just as long as they respect that I'm straight and don't try to hit on me.


----------



## Harlequin

No see that's nice but um

WRONG ATTITUDE


----------



## nyuu

You've got an issue if you feel the need to say "I'm nongay, but i'm cool with fags - *but I don't want them hitting on me*" - you seriously don't need to add that last bit


----------



## Alexi

Yeah, I'm cool with straight people, just as long as they don't hit on me...


srsly, wtf


----------



## Vladimir Putin's LJ

What happens when a guy hits on you do you punch him in the throat to prove your manliness or what


----------



## nyuu

Gee VP'LJ I dunno.. touching a man's jugular? that's kinda homo...


----------



## Vladimir Putin's LJ

It's not worse than those fucking fags who kick a guy in the balls.
_That's foot-to-testicles contact._


----------



## surskitty

The only solution is to have no physical contact with people you are not attracted to.


----------



## Jason-Kun

NWT said:


> You've got an issue if you feel the need to say "I'm nongay, but i'm cool with fags - *but I don't want them hitting on me*" - you seriously don't need to add that last bit


. . . To be fair I said I was cool with them being gay if the respected the fact I didn't want to be hit on. Which implies that they know I don't want them hitting on me. But ya know what? I should stop talking.


Vladimir Putin's LJ said:


> What happens when a guy hits on you do you punch him in the throat to prove your manliness or what


No actually, I walk away and avoid them as much as I can.


----------



## Zhorken

I like boys and girls and others and it annoys me anyway when a member of any of these groups whom I don't know tries to hit on me.  I'm not sure why "I'm unattracted to your entire sex" is relevant; really, "I'm not attracted to you" is all that matters.


----------



## Vladimir Putin's LJ

So in PE today I was talking with a friend when the subject of politics came up (because I can't leave politics out of anything. Seriously). So we talked about the American presidential race and I had to tell my friend all about Palin. She quickly grew to despise her, like any other normal human being.
But then I mentioned her stance on gay rights, things like marriage and adoption and such, and she looked kind of doubtful. So I asked her what was wrong and she told me she was for marriage and things but adoption? 
'No fucking way. It's like the worst thing that could happen to the kid.'
And then she went on to tell me how her Aunt is a psychiatrist and says that children growing up with homosexual parents become homosexual, bla bla bla. I told her I didn't believe that but didn't get the chance to persue the matter because the bell went and we had to clean the gym.

And now I'm a bit upset because I don't understand this attitude. All studies made so-far show that the overwhelming majority of children raised by two dads or two mums turn out to be perfectly heterosexual.
I don't get it.



> No actually, I walk away and avoid them as much as I can.


If a buddy hits on you once you avoid them as much as possible? That's, erm, not very nice.


----------



## octobr

It makes me lol when people who are all I HAET GAYS get uppity about children adopted into homosexual households turnin' gay. Because I mean then we don't have any problems, all our gays are in one big happy family, they won't bother anyone! Seems like success to me.


I should carve my pumpkin with a big ~GAY~ sign.

Or make VP's signature into a pumpkin pattern, that'd get me lots of friends.


----------



## Jason-Kun

Vladimir Putin's LJ said:


> If a buddy hits on you once you avoid them as much as possible? That's, erm, not very nice.


I didn't say buddy. I'll explain again. If they KNOW I'm unconfortable with it, then I'll avoid them. However if they don't know, then I'll explain it to them and hope they respect my wishes, undersand?


----------



## Alexi

Just the fact that you'd assume every gay man in the world is going to hit on you is the problems. Also, if some gay guy does happen to chat you up, no need to freak. Just say politely that you're straight and be flattered that someone finds you atractive. No need to be all "GAY GERMS AHH STAY AWAY."

Mr. Putin's Live Journal: Damn, that sucks. D: My friend's friend thinks the same. It just makes my mind boggle. I don't talk to her much.


----------



## surskitty

Zhorken said:


> I like boys and girls and others and it annoys me anyway when a member of any of these groups whom I don't know tries to hit on me.  I'm not sure why "I'm unattracted to your entire sex" is relevant; really, "I'm not attracted to you" is all that matters.


I AGREE WITH THIS SENTIMENT





Jason-Kun said:


> I didn't say buddy. I'll explain again. If they KNOW I'm unconfortable with it, then I'll avoid them. However if they don't know, then I'll explain it to them and hope they respect my wishes, undersand?


So suddenly it's worse that someone of the same gender hits on you that you're not attracted to than someone of the opposite gender hitting on you when you're not attracted to them?  What?  Why the fuck can't you just say, "Sorry, I'm not interested," rather than going on some diatribe about how you're NOT GAY and you don't want other guys to hit on you?


----------



## ZimD

Because then they will think he's gay and get all their fag buddies together to rape him.


----------



## octobr

God KNOWS those gays love the rape. Right timmy.


----------



## Harlequin

you know what I don't get

I know a girl who's all "equal rights, adoption, marriage, woo!" but she _thinks homosexuality is a choice.

_what the fuck?


----------



## nastypass

Verne said:


> Or make VP's signature into a pumpkin pattern, that'd get me lots of friends.


do iiiiiiit



Verne said:


> God KNOWS those gays love the rape. Right timmy.


Y-YES SIR


----------



## EvilCrazyMonkey

i love how everyone that says homosexuality is a choice ends up to be straight.

edit: and the faggots go "no, no it's not"
but it is apparently.
woohoo.


----------



## Buizelfan61393

How did i not see this club *definite joins*

this summer, i came to the conclusion that i was bi, but when school started, i then thought that something still felt wrong, and being completely gay felt much better. 

Note: That was just the short version, don't think i'm just fickle like that XD


----------



## EvilCrazyMonkey

I remember we had to write this page on who we would take and where we would take them if we got the chance to hang out with a celebrity for one day. My friend jokes around, and starts writing it about George W. Bush and how she would take him to a gay pride parade. Of course, assistant principal and teacher complain, and she is forced to rewrite it.

When the end of the year standardized course tests come around, we get the same exact question for an essay.
Of course, I write about George W. Bush and how I would take him to a gay pride parade. Also, I aced the essay. 8)


----------



## Alexi

So...just had this talk with my mom. I told her I would vote no on Prop 8, and she got all up in arms about my decision. (Note: I'm having a mock vote in American Government tomorrow, and we were talking about it.) Then she said I was just voting that way to "look cool." Never mind the fact that no other student will ever know of my vote, or anyone else for that matter. She said that my friends were influencing me and that basically I cannot have my own opinion, I should listen more in church (ironic) and other such bullshit. 

Now, I asked her why she was so against gays. Her reason? Not because the Bible says, no. Because of ONE experience she had when she was young when some asshole she was dating asked to her marry him and his boyfriend. O.o Because it's not likely some guy has asked a girl to marry him and his girlfriend. >>

*fumes*


----------



## Dannichu

Prop 8 is the most retarded thing I've ever heard of. Not giving someone the right to marry in the first place is silly enough, but giving them the right, allowing people to get marry and then rescinding their rights is, and there's no other word for it, cruel.

And the fact that the opposed people call their campaign "Protect marriage" sounds beyond stupid. You sound like anti-divorce protestors for God's sake. Call youselves the "We don't think everyone should have rights" group and leave it at that.


----------



## Keltena

I remember looking at their website in G.L.A.S.S. once. They say things like "protect children" and "protect families" too. It's sickening.

Not to mention they sell shirts for little kids, which is not something I can forgive. (No On Prop 8 doesn't.)


----------



## spaekle

Just how much support is there for Prop 8? I will be very very angry if it gets passed, and that's all I can really say. :\

I'm getting _seriously pissed off_ at a certain friend of mine who likes to call me 'woman' and 'house bitch' just because he knows it's a sensitive subject for me and it's something he can always annoy me with. I know that kind of thing comes with being out, but that is seriously fucking immature and I really didn't expect it from a friend of mine. And apparently he's making his Facebook status say things like "If you have a woman's body I'm going to call you 'she'" when I don't even go on Facebook and wouldn't have even seen it if someone hadn't told me about it. Some people just aren't worth being out to, I swear to God. :\


----------



## EvilCrazyMonkey

So this is your friend?
Though honestly, I haven't had a big problem with those kind of people in a while. Except today I had to deliver these election poll things to a bunch of teachers as a part of newspaper class. This one classroom was _full_ of complete bitches who made fun of me last year. The second I walked in the classroom, they all started laughing.
Of course, being oblivious as I am, I don't even realize what they're laughing about until I hear one person say to the person sitting in front of him, "Cam is so _gay_!" After that I just realized they're complete idiots who need to be ignored.

edit: and as for how much support it has: a quick google search on "yes on 8" returned http://protectmarriage.com
honestly doesn't the constitution of all things guarantee equality of all people? if marriage and domestic partnerships apply to two different groups, no matter how equal they are, it's segregation all over again.


----------



## spaekle

:\ How silly. I don't think I'm ever going to understand why it's such a big deal to these people in the first place.

Oh, I talked it over and apparently the thing about his Facebook status was a misunderstanding - I shouldn't have just believed what my friend said. I feel bad about being so mad at him now, even though he still does pick on me in ways I don't  appreciate. He's not _that_ much of an asshole.


----------



## octobr

I wouldn't honestly mind being made fun of ... would probably mean I'd have too much focus on the other people for me to freak out over myself. Did that make any sense?

So today at dance I realized that it's getting really hard for me to dance when all I see in the mirror is some girl trying way too hard to look good. And. Agh.

aaaaaaand gay.


----------



## Ayame

Harlequin said:


> you know what I don't get
> 
> I know a girl who's all "equal rights, adoption, marriage, woo!" but she _thinks homosexuality is a choice.
> 
> _what the fuck?


Mmyep because I totally woke up one morning, poured myself some cornflakes and decided to like girls.
Of course.
People who think that it's a choice are silly.


----------



## EvilCrazyMonkey

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6OTX3oMnNPU


----------



## octobr

Haha that guy's other vids rock. Really. Thanks for sharing.


----------



## spaekle

Oh dude I love Tyler Oakley. I'm subscribed to him. :]


----------



## EvilCrazyMonkey

Tyler Oakley said:
			
		

> Today's the day...
> I'm gonna be straight.


----------



## octobr

Shit yeah, bitches!


----------



## surskitty

So why exactly does the US hate gay marriage and gay adoption but love pot, slot machines, and suicide?


----------



## nyuu

tentpeg. note that gays want to adopt children for sex.


----------



## spaekle

God damn it, Prop 8 passed? 

I want to burn things. :[


----------



## Vladimir Putin's LJ

Banning gay marriage is unconstitutional.
Americans care so much about it they should be outraged this is happening.

Oh wait, the constitution is like the _Bible_ when used by morons: pick and choose what you like, ignore the rest. Silly me!


----------



## EvilCrazyMonkey

Vladimir Putin's LJ said:


> Banning gay marriage is unconstitutional.
> Americans care so much about it they should be outraged this is happening.
> 
> Oh wait, the constitution is like the _Bible_ when used by morons: pick and choose what you like, ignore the rest. Silly me!


I'm surprised no one has made a case about this.
'Course, I wouldn't be surprised if someone has and was quickly struck down. =o


----------



## Dannichu

> (San Francisco, California) At least three lawsuits are are in the works to challenge Proposition 8, a proposed amendment to the California constitution that would ban same-sex marriage.


Full story here.

:D


----------



## Vladimir Putin's LJ

*proposes law to amend constitution to remove gun rights*
WHAT ABOUT THE CONSTITUTION ZAIUGHJZEBHAJGFZ

*proposes law to amend consitution to ban gay marriage*
CONSTIToh wait its about gays nevermind *votes yes*


----------



## octobr

I told my mom today that it might pass and she was like 'so?'

'Well then gays couldn't get married.'

'Oh. Anyway, we have to go.'

; ; hurts me deep mom


----------



## Dannichu

Found these and I thought I'd share:













From here.


----------



## Old Catch

Dannichu said:


> Found these and I thought I'd share:


How did you know I was looking for a new sig, Danni? :D EDIT: Too big to use here but I'll use it on subeta. :/

Also my Mom didn't care much either and my godmoms are gay so I was very ;;


----------



## octobr

So guess what the twentieth is...


----------



## ZimD

Thursday. Transgender Day of Remembrance, which I have only heard of recently, but it's awesome based on what I know about it~


----------



## Vladimir Putin's LJ

Well no it's not awesome really since it exists to remember people who were brutally killed for no reason.


----------



## octobr

There's a thing going on in chicago this weekend for it and I wish I could come but we don't go into the city very much. 

Though dad had offered to take me into chicago. I shoulda taken it. SURPRISE!



let's bag these up



I wish I could recognize it somehow -- like kids do for the day of silence, at school -- but I dunno how, especially not without people going LOL R U GAY or something cause kids r dum. But it would be cool ... and thursdays are the days I meet with my counselor and a group of girls -- 'women's issues,' lolol. -- so I dunno I feel like that's important.

Also I love dashes like I'm some sort of emily dickinson spawn, what is _wrong_ with me.


----------



## ZimD

Vladimir Putin's LJ said:


> Well no it's not awesome really since it exists to remember people who were brutally killed for no reason.


Obviously I think that part is horrible, I just mean that I think it's awesome that they have a day to remember them.


----------



## Alexi

My dad wouldn't let me go to school if they recognized that day. >> As a school, they don't, but a lot of kids did last year. I just told him they don't and left the room quickly.


----------



## Dannichu

Watch thiiiiis~

A straight person appealing to other straight people to speak out against the injustice and general crap-ness of Prop 8. Awesome, no?

I want to marry Keith Olbermann now (see what I did there?)


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## octobr

Guh that is a great video. It makes me really wanna get involved with the glbt community, to help and be part of the big group... he words it in an amazing way. I want to applaud this guy and then send the video to everyone I know. The way how at the end he looks like he isn't just saying this cause it's written down but because he means it... thanks for sharing, really.


----------



## Vladimir Putin's LJ

Dannichu said:


> Watch thiiiiis~








Keith Olbermann is an amazing speaker. This really motivates me to get more involved in the LGBT community, like Verne, and I really do hope I'll be able to do this very soon.
I'm so sad for California. It really is horribly unfair and wrong. I hope the people who voted 'yes' will feel terrible at some point because they deserve to feel as miserable as possible for removing a minority's basic human rights.

I've really been trying to depress myself this evening, what with videos like this (it made me cry, haha vlad is overly emotional), re-reading things about Matthew Shepard and Brandon Teena and watching WBC clips. Ugh.

I really want to get one of those t-shirts Stonewall's producing, like this. Education For All is a great campaign and I regret it not being talked about in my school.


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## Dannichu

Haha, they made a t-shirt of that? I remember at one point they had massive billboards with that poster on all over London (and presumeably elsewhere, but I don't travel much). My friend's also got a small poster version (with the Welsh translation underneath) that her mum sent her on her wall.

The WBC are so, so crazy they don't even anger me anymore. They've gone so off the scale of "what the hell are they thinking; human beings aren't capable of that kind of disgusting behaviour", I can't take them seriously. I think it's some kind of defence mechanism. >>

I really should get involved with something LGBTish, too; I joined the university's society for it, but I keep missing meetings because I'm too busy watching House and 24 with my housemates. 
The gay movement isn't as big over here as in the US; granted, we don't have marriage, which is annoying as hell, but we get all the rights and the general public is much, much more accepting, but a lot could be done in schools and with young people. 
I'd really love to do some kind of support work with young LGBTQ people; when I was 14-15, I was so, so grateful for the Internet; I would've felt completely alone otherwise.


----------



## Dinru

Dannichu said:


> Watch thiiiiis~


This video is amazing.

It made me smile. It gave me hope. And here is why.

They write in the history books about how African Americans were oppressed, of the horrors the Native Americans were subjected to, the terrible conquests of Mexico and South America. As a country in general, we've gotten past racial differences. There are individuals who have not, but they are restrained by law. Yes, many minorities now have the basic human rights that they once did not. Ones many of us take for granted every day.

But what of Homosexuals? Children don't learn about them in history books. In fact many adolescents primarily know the word "Gay" as a negative slang term, and associate Gay people as such. It's horrid, to walk through the streets of my own teeny-tiny little city, and listen to these _children_ saying, "That's so gay!" without even realizing what they are really saying, or who they could be hurting. I see a child being bullied, which is horrible enough, and being called a "homo" or a "fag". I cry a little inside.

Why do we, as humans, hate others for who we may love? Shouldn't we embrace the ability to love at all? In a world with so much hate, why must we push away the rare emotion of love? Why can those who are opposed to it keep their mouths shut? To all the Christians opposed to Gay Marriage out there, I say, did Jesus not teach to love? To hate the sin, but love the sinner? 

It's reasons like this that I've lost almost all faith in humanity. But it's places like this that give me a bit of hope, too. And videos like this. Thank you for sharing, Dannichu.

That was, in essence, my response to that video. It turned into kind of an essay/ramble, didn't it? And yes, by the way, I realize that Christianity is not the only religion opposed to same-sex marriage. I could probably find and equivalent statement for most other religions.


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## EvilCrazyMonkey

That video was amazing. I agree with Dinru; those are the only type of things that give me hope. :(

And also, not to be mean or anything, but why are "gay," "homo," and "fag" capitalized?


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## Dinru

EvilCrazyMonkey said:


> That video was amazing. I agree with Dinru; those are the only type of things that give me hope. :(
> 
> And also, not to be mean or anything, but why are "gay," "homo," and "fag" capitalized?


I have no idea, it just sort of came out that way. I'm going to go uncapitalize them.


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## Ayame

Dinru, I agree with you ever so much.  So many people are deluded and ignorant, and pretty much shaped by society to hate gay people.
When I was younger, I didn't really know what gay people were.  I heard them mentioned negatively, and heard my schoolmates calling each other gay.
I kind of feared gay people, because I didn't know anything about them.  I wish it wasn't like that for children.  I wish society didn't make gay people out as creepy, or weird.


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## EvilCrazyMonkey

I wish society didn't make any minority out as creepy or weird.


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## octobr

Oh speaking of which you know what's awesome


THE NEWS IS TALKING ABOUT THOMAS BEATTY AGAIN! hurray why can't they just leave the poor guy the fuck alone for chrissake

and my mom saw the bit on him this morning and it was all 'YOU REMEMBER THE PREGNANT MAN WELL HE WANTS TO HAVE ANOTHER' and mom goes

i quote

'Now that's just _wrong._'


Nope, mom, no -- what's wrong is how you can openly discriminate against someone who out of love for his wife decided to take the painful position of birthing a child just because they might be male. Just because they were once female.

It's not like you have a child who has already told you he _felt the same way._


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## Harlequin

oh vernes :(

well tell her she's being a cunt, that's a pretty dick thing to say considering you might be in the same situation one day!


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## octobr

yeah i know right i wish i could but she thinks she's being funny

and she's like making a big deal that SHE'S DOING ~RESEARCH~ by which i mean watching like tg 'documentaries' by which i mean shows that find the two most obnoxious transgender people ever and ask them questions and by watching barbara walters on thomas beattie

"ANYWAYS I HAVE TO GO FINISH WATCHING MY SHOW ON THAT MAN WHO HAD BABIES" yes mom i very much appreciate the fine work you're doing trying to understand me 

I am so tired of her thinking she understands me because all she does is treat me like i'm still her five year old, explaining everything she finds funny effectively killing the joke, trying to help me understand simple concepts, acting as if she's all-knowing -- mom, i'm _smarter than you_ ok? I know it, you know it, so stop treating me like i'm a little kid. Maybe if you have some questions about what I'm thinking you should ask me. Maybe I know what's going on in my head. Stop trying to make decisions for me -- I don't _want_ to go to a school just because it has a good dance program, I don't want to take tutoring for the ACT, I don't want to be your little girl anymore.

She acts like she knows me so well... she can't even remember certain important things like my act score. That's sort of going to affect the rest of my life, mom, you should _know_ the difference between 24 and 26! I'm tired of dealing with her crap, I'm tired of her.

You know once when I was in group with my school counselors we did a sort of activity where we had to list out our 'board of directors' -- the people we trust, that we go to when we have problems. I only had four; we were made to put the guardian(s) we live with one there (don't have much a problem with this, it makes sense). Then we had to list out next to each name symbols that corresponded to certain traits -- there was like an L with a circle or something for when you listen to their problems more than they listen to you, there was a T with a circle for breaking trust, etc ... after we did that for everyone, they said to cross out the people with any circled letters, except your parents.

If it hadn't been for that 'except for parents' rule, my mom would be the only one crossed out. I'm constantly listening to her whine, listening to her tell stories about me that are by all means not things I want shared -- she tells even the _hairdresser_ that I 'want to be a boy.' Does that have any tact at all? 

Sometimes she'll start out talking by going, 'don't get mad, but...' and that's the worse, cause I know she's going to say something stupid. And if I roll my eyes cause I know that she'll yell at me! What does she _expect_? I feel as if I'm never allowed to get upset, to cry, to get mad -- she can yell and scream and break down _all she wants_ but as soon as I shed a tear she gets frustrated with me and storms off like it's all my fault. _Don't cry,_ she'll tell me. I show some sort of negative emotion and she gives up, walks away with this annoyed scoff as if I've done something wrong. 

And I know it's partially my fault that she's always like this because I'm such a hassle. She's going through this crap with the divorce, all these upsets with dad, her mom dying of cancer, our family's financial issues -- here I am, costing so much with dance and therapy and school and medication (74 dollars on half my meds alone last time) and being so emotionally demanding, so draining because I'm fucked up and perfectionist and causing trouble _everywhere_ -- the least I could do is get good grades in school, satisfy the parents there, can't even do that -- i'm in all sorts of trouble at dance because of reasons I don't understand, but all I can do is cry about it, not fix anything -- I know I'm just making things worse. And now I'm springing this whole 'I want to be a guy' thing on her? What's wrong with me? 

And this is why a. I should be dead, b. people shouldn't read my posts because they're irrelevant, c. I am a whiny brat.




Aaaaaaaaaand none of that was relevant go verne you suck.


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## nastypass

you know what i find amusing

the passing of prop. 8 was immediately followed by wildfires


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## Vladimir Putin's LJ

god loves fags


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## Dannichu

Oh Verne ):

It's terrible that she's being so tactless and going about it completely the wrong way to understand what it is you're going through, but even if she's screwing it up so much along the way, at least she's making an effort. No, that doesn't justify her thinking she knows everything about you from two crappy documentaries, but she's shown she's willing to put in an effort, and maybe you could show her some decent websites or research that would help her without the media spin of "This MAN had a BABY". 
Maybe she'll come around and be more helpful in time, after she's had time to cope with your grandmother's death and the divorce and things; at the moment it might feel like added pressure, but in time, when everything else isn't so much of a pressing issue, you can sit her down and have a talk that doesn't start with "Don't get mad, but...". 
But God, don't blame yourself for this. Sure, lessons, meds and such are expensive but they're necessary and she's willing to pay for them; if affording them was a real problem, she'd have said something. 

Try to relax about her not knowing about your school levels; my dad doesn't have a clue what any of my marks and grades mean, and he'll say "Well done" or "Better luck next time" depending on how happy I am when I tell him. I'm smarter than him and while it would be nice to be able to talk to him about my grades and such, I know that all he wants is for me to do the best I can, which is all any parent wants, really. 
And it's preferable to having a really pressurising parent who insists you get a certain grade so you can go to a certain school and spend the rest of your life doing something they've picked out for you. 

And I'm rambling now. I don't know much about your situation past what you said in the post above, but I really, really hope everything works out for you. And regarding "people shouldn't read my posts because they're irrelevant"; this is _exactly _what this club is here for.


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## octobr

Hey pals, it's tg day of remembrance. 

I made a t-shirt.


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## Dannichu

That shirt is awesome :D
I want it. 

Umm, in the absence of anything realy discussion-worthy, have some amusing protest signs.


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## octobr

Those are some awesome protest signs.

Also for the tshirt uh you can have the pattern?


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## EvilCrazyMonkey

oh my god danni.

"Don't make us move to Canada! It's too cold." haha


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## Ayame

Dannichu said:


> That shirt is awesome :D
> I want it.
> 
> Umm, in the absence of anything realy discussion-worthy, have some amusing protest signs.


Awesome protest signs.  :D  I especially like the Canada and 'OMG WTF SRSLY?' ones.


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## Dannichu

Not that the fact they have to protest is a good thing at all, but standing around with people sharing a common view waving amusing signs looks like one helluva lot of fun. I want to go and protest something. I don't really mind what, just as long as I get my cool sign.
It's the student thing to do :D


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## octobr

hey gays talkin to you queer from phoenix arizona


It's wonderful down here and I never wanna leave. CACTI!


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## Dannichu

Pictures!
Phoenix sounds supercool. From what I remember of it (it being built in the middle of a desert and whathaveyou) from year 8 geography. 

Also! I really, really want to see the movie/documentary-thing about Harvey Milk. I've been watching trailers and interviews and all sorts and it look so, so good. LGBT history is so interesting (and sad). 

Lucas Grabeel (Ryan in HSM) is playing a _canon _gay character this time!


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## octobr

It is really cool. I expected it to be all desert but it's not, it's just full of life.

Today we got up, went outside, and saw a hummingbird drinking nectar from little pink flowers.


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## Keltena

I've heard it's supposed to be really good, Danni. My school's GSA was going to go see it, but then I stopped going to school and they didn't get to see it anyway, so... D=


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## Vladimir Putin's LJ

Verne said:


> It is really cool. I expected it to be all desert but it's not, it's just full of life.
> 
> Today we got up, went outside, and saw a hummingbird drinking nectar from little pink flowers.


Aww, that's adorable. It's great that you're having a good time too. I'd say more but I don't know much about Phoenix so er.



Dannichu said:


> Also! I really, really want to see the movie/documentary-thing about Harvey Milk. I've been watching trailers and interviews and all sorts and it look so, so good. LGBT history is so interesting (and sad).


Oh yeah, I really want to watch it, too. Read about it in this month's Attitude, and even though I'm sure I'll be thoroughly depressed after the end of the film I'm intent on seeing it.
Unfortunately it comes out right in the middle of my exam week so I won't be able to check it out till January or something.


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## octobr

I don't wanna see that, it looks kinda sad. I'm not in the mood for sad things rite now.


Lol just went to the zoo, was so gay all over all the petting zoo goats. I would stand there and say LET THE CHILDREN COME and about five goats would wander over looking to be pet. There was one -- Angler, his name was -- whose spot I kept finding. You know, where you'd scratch him and his leg would start kicking... cept instead of that, goats just twist their heads all the way back as if to figure out what is making that wonderful scratch.

Ok I lied i do wanna see that documentary because I dunno I'm a terrible person.


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## Vladimir Putin's LJ

fff goats are one of the best variety of animal. Fainting goats are pretty amazing.


Can anyone name more than like two or three serious LGBT-themed movies that don't depress you at the end? I mean Christ, let these people live happily for once.

I mean, when I think of all the queer movies I've seen, I don't really recall one that ends well. Brokeback Mountain, Priest, Boys Don't Cry... hell, even the ones that aren't totally depressing always end in a bitter way, like Another Country.
Maurice ends well enough, I suppose. I don't like the guy Maurice ends up with at the end though. Don't know why.
I ENJOY DEPRESSING MYSELF and crying like a little bitch over fictional people or people who died ages ago. waaah


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## Dannichu

Haha, this'll have spoilers for the endings, so I'll spoiler-tag it, but I can divide all the gay movies (virtually all lesbian-themed) I've seen into three groups - where one (or both) of the gay couple dies (or commits suicide), where the couple is split up for some reason other than death, and the couple actually getting (and staying!) together: 

Spoiler tagged because I blatantly ruin the endings here. o.o


Spoiler



*Wherein one/both characters dies/commits suicide:*

Brokeback Mountain - Ennis is murdered at the end and they had to hide their relationship the whole time they were together.

Lost and Delirious - After her girlfriend refuses to see her after her family find out about their relationship, the lead character throws herself off a building. 

Mulholland Drive - Everyone is messed up beyond belief and Diane shoots herself.

If Walls Could Talk 2 (part 1) - One of the couple dies at the very beginning and the rest of the story tells how miserable her left-behind partner is.

The Children's Hour - After fighting the rumour that they were together during the whole time, one of the characters admits her undying love for the other, is rejected, and hangs herself. 

Love Actually - Had only one gay couple in with all the straight ones, and one of the gay couple dies in the middle of the night (for no reason, really). The whole storyline involving them was cut from the actual movie anyway.

Rent - Angel dies of AIDS

Milk - Milk is assassinated

Madchen in Uniform - The first actual lesbian movie; it had two endings, one where the lead character killed herself, and one where she didn't. Guess which was the only one the US ratings board would allowed to be played? No, seriously.

*Wherein the main couple is split up by a force other than death (homophobia, insanity, family, society, not really being gay):*

Loving Annabelle - The main character (a teacher in an all-girl's Catholic school) is arrested after being discovered to have had a relationship with one of her students. 

The Monkey's Mask - One of the couple is a _murderous psychopath_.

Fried Green Tomatoes - They were canon in the book, but the main couple in the movie version are now "just friends". 

Kissing Jessica Stein - Jessica enters into a really sweet relationship with another woman, comes out, wins over her traditional family and then... goes off with a man.

Gray Matters - The girl the main girl falls in love with is married to her brother and never leaves him. 

My Summer of Love - The main couple are totally messed up and, after one tries to kill the other, they decide it's not really working. 

Bend it Like Beckham - Was _totally _a gay movie, but both girls ended up straight. Go figure.

Tipping the Velvet - There were lots of pairings in this one, with lots of cheating and manipulation, though the main character finally gets into a decent relationship at the end. Doesn't really make up for all the abusive ones, though.

The World Unseen - The ending's a bit inconclusive, but they don't actually _get _together.

*Movies where the main two actually get together!:*

Imagine Me and You - This movie is _so _my guilty pleasure. It's the cutest thing ever. She leaves him to be with her.

But I'm a Cheerleader! - After enduing a "we make you straight! :D" programme for ages, the lead girls decide to get together. 

D.E.B.S. - This one's cheesy as hell, but awesome.

If Walls Could Talk 2 (parts 2 and 3) - Make up for the utterly depressing fir part with two happy stories and a sex scene involving Sharon Stone and Ellen :o

Better Than Chocolate - Saw this aaages ago, but the main two end up happy at the end.

When Night is Falling - Has an awesome ending :)

Rent – Maureen and Joanne carry on being together (somewhat) happily, though they’re not exactly a match made in heaven.



So that’s 8 where one/both ends up dying, 9 where they don’t live happily ever after, and 7 where the lead two actually make it through. 

Let’s face it; it’s not good for the gays. There are so few gay movies (and far, far fewer lesbian ones), and considerably less than a third end happily for us. :/


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## octobr

The Children's Hour is a little bit creepy. Weird stuff yo.


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## Vladimir Putin's LJ

Well, at least now I've got a ton of films to look up in various torrent sites :v
But yeah, from the ones I've seen, very few end happily. Let me steal your spoiler-tag format to explain the movies/books I've checked out (and/or remember):



Spoiler



Priest: The main character is a _priest_, so of course this can't end well. He (Greg) falls in love with a cab driver and at one point they're starting to get down in the cab when a policeman shows up, Greg is shunned by the community and forced to live in some isolated house with a moldy old bitch of a priest, gets back to his original church, with the help of *another *priest and when the two stand side by side to do that wafer-giving thing, no one goes to Greg except this one girl (who's very important in the film, too), he hugs her and starts crying and we don't know whether he's going to get back with the cab driver THE END. (seriously though, this is a beautiful film and you should all watch it. Deals with incest and [heterosexual] priests being able to have normal relationships, if the gay factor isn't enough)

Boys Don't Cry: Trans movie based on a true story. Brandon gets raped and humiliated by two guys who eventually kill him.

Another Country: The main character doesn't get to stay with the man he loves and misses the chance of getting an important position because of other students. He does come out to his Commie best friend at the end of the film and lives to be an old man, which is better than nothing. One of two boys caught having sex by a teacher hangs himself near the begining, though.
But yeah, it's 1920s-30s England, what can you do.

L'Homme De Sa Vie: Obscure French movie gooo. Main character falls in love with his neighbour (and vice-versa) along the course of the movie, neighbour sleeps around a lot and the ending's open as hell. It's implied that the main character leaves his wife and kid, but apart from that we don't know anything.

Maurice: Maurice gets his heart broken by his Cambridge love, Clive (who insists their love must remain platonic and leaves him for some girl, saying he suddenly became straight and that Maurice will also go end his 'Greek' phase soon), tries to cure himself through hypnosis, gets told by hypnotist he can't be cured and gets told he should move to France or Italy if he wants to be with men legally and eventually falls in love with Clive's gameskeeper, Alec. They're together at the end, and even though I don't like Alec much it *is* a good ending for everyone except Clive.

There's also a Spanish film about three or four couples being the first to get married after Spain legalized same-sex marriage, but I can't remember the name for the life of me. They all get married in the end so yay.

Wilde: Bosie's a little bitch.

Teleny: is a book. They all try to kill themselves, lots of drama and plenty of people dying and overall a pretty brilliant parody. The sex scenes are pretty intense too, though they take some getting used to because of the purple prose used through-out all of them. (and some mood-killers like 'He himself was so tightly clasped that he could neither pull his instrument nor push it in, for when he tried to press it down he felt as if he was being circumcised'. All the random French is awesome, too)
But yeah this one's hilarious.



I haven't seen very many gay things and I have a terrible memory.


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## Dannichu

But in response to "how many _serious _gay moves aren't depressing at the end", I think the only ones that I've seen that count are When Night is Falling, The World Unseen (they don't get together as such, but it's _hopeful_~), Tipping the Velvet and uuuuh that's it because all the others aren't really serious - D.E.B.S is especially hilarious because it's set in an all-girls school that teaches you how to be a superspy and the lead girl ends up with the world's greatest supervillan X3 
Better than Chocolate is too campy to be taken seriously, But I'm a Cheerleader! is a parody of the programmes aimed to make gay people stright again (it's hilarious, though), and Imagine Me and You is like a gay version of every British Rom-com ever (Notting Hill, Bridget Jones, Four Weddings, Love, Actually), so it doesn't really try to be realistic at all. But damn, it's cute.

Priest looks really good, I'll have to keep an eye out for it. I spent all of last summer watching gay movies on youtube in the absence of anything else to do X3
I need to see more male-gay things (I've only seen Brokeback Mountain), but there's way more to choose from and I have no idea what's good or not. :/

The Children's Hour is very, very creepy, yes.


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## Harlequin

I can't find any male gay things _sur l'Internet_ but I want to :( also excuse the random French I needed to for some reason.

oh actually I quite liked Another Gay Movie. It was funny for sure. Not serious but.


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## Flazeah

Dannichu said:


> The World Unseen


 Ooh, how did you watch that? I've looked for it on YouTube and done a search, but I couldn't find it - only the trailers and such. And they might not have been on YouTube; I can't be bothered to check. But yes.

 Also, the movie might somehow actually be on YouTube and by some incredible miracle, I managed not to find it. That wouldn't be completely surprising. ;)

 It looks like a lovely movie, and the review on afterellen.com makes me want to watch it even more.


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## Dannichu

Okay, you caught me X3
I've seen a ton of trailers, some clips and read reviews and interviews but haven't actually seen the movie. But I have read the book (which the director of the movie wrote, so I'm assuming she didn't change the ending or anything); I really want to see it~ And I Can't Think Straight, which is by the same author/director, too.

I read the book in a single day - it was that good :D

I'm keeping a patrol of Youtube waiting for someone to put it up, but I doubt it will be until it comes out on DVD (which I plan to buy anyway); I'm fairly sure it's being shown at film festivals now, and it's getting a limited cinematic release in the US soonish. It might come out in some UK cinemas, but probably only obscure ones. That said, the uni cinema shows a lot of indie movies, so there's a possibility there. But I'll buy it when it gets a R2 DVD release and watch it as soon as it's up on Youtube.


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## octobr

I had something to say in here and I forgo-- oh I remember now. It was sorta dumb anyways, just that like all the stores down in phoenix went HELLO LADIES oh and gentleman 

Glad you guys are listing these, I'm pressed for things to watch (of course i could i dunno finish princess tutu and the magic school bus BUT).


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## Dannichu

Well, obscure gay movies are often uploaded onto youtube and stay there for quite a while because they don't get flagged as illegal, whereas something mainstream would be picked-up on straight away, which is handy. 

afterellen and afterelton both focus on media, so they do some really good reviews and discussions and things about all the gay movies and TV shows if you're stuck for ideas about what you want to watch.

Books are harder to find, which is a pain. Massive bookstores have a Gay and Lesbian section, but they pretty much only exist in London, which I rarely visit. The only really mainstream gay-themed books I can think of that you can buy anywhere (in the UK, at least) are Sarah Water's novels, which are all set in Victorian London (except her newest one, _The Night Watch_, which is set in post-war Britian). They're very good, but it's not exactly variety. I finally made my own eBay account, so I can buy what I want without it showing up in my mother's emails (which was emarassing enough when I ordered a copy of _The Very Hungry Caterpillar_), but so far _The World Unseen_'s the only one I've bought off there. Amazon's got a much wider range, but I've never bought something off there before :/ 

I have a list of authors I want to look out for and then go around all the local charity shops. There's normally some stuff by Stella Duffy, and Val McDermid's early stuff has a lesbian main character (who I love), but most of the authors are USians, so they're very, very rare. 
Though last Friday I found a book in Canterbury's Oxfam Bookshop by Edmund White (my best friend who's doing American Studies at uni bought his book _States of Desire - Travels in Gay America _last year and I read and loved it), a gay novel called _The Married Man_ and it's great so far.

And your avatar is rather terrifying at the moment, it must be said. :)


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## octobr

I wish we had a good bookstore in town. But even if there was I wouldn't do anything, it's awkward waltzing in somewhere and just heading to the GAY.



And I know, I wanted to change it to this but it was too big. :(


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## Vladimir Putin's LJ

Verne said:


> I had something to say in here and I forgo-- oh I remember now. It was sorta dumb anyways, just that like all the stores down in phoenix went HELLO LADIES oh and gentleman


yay stores in phoenix aren't dumb c:

as for gay books YES PLEASE. I've only got Maurice, Brokeback Mountain and The Picture of Dorian Gray (only works with gay-vision but Basil/Dorian is totally canon until Dorian stabs Basil through the heart and dumps his corpse in a swamp ):), so expanding my knowledge would be great. As long as they're still in print or the eBay/Amazon description doesn't make it sound too pervy I can probably get my parents to order it.
yeah i know, sob sob for not having my own credit card yet ):

oh and verne yeah it's maybe a bit weird (especially if you're straight) but if you're quick no one notices except the guy at the check-out and they usually don't care. i do this when i want to buy really embarassing kid's books for nostalgia or that month's attitude (mos that's gotten me was a wink from the cashier :v)


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## Dannichu

I remember when I bought my first gay movie at Exeter's HMV I was terrified (I was about fourteen, I think) and left without my change X3

I have no embarassment over bookshops anymore because (fun story) whenever I go into bookshops, I spend hours in there, browsing everything. When my sister's with me, she'll get really bored and eventually grab something off the Erotic Fiction shelf and start reading the sex scenes aloud until I agree to leave.

I just remembered another gay book I quite enjoyed; Augusten Burroughs' _Running With Scissors_. It's a memoir of his massively dysfunctional childhood, including him entering into a sexual relationship with a man in his 20s while he was about fourteen, but it's very funny. And the movie has Kristin Chenoweth in :D It's a small part, but she kisses a woman, so I'm not complaining.

Oh, and anything by David Sedaris (his books are these brilliant autobigraphical thingies) is absolutely hilarious; he's gay and often talks about his boyfriend. It's not really gay-themed, just mentioning him as part of life, and it's really very sweet - I like _Me Talk Pretty One Day_ and _Dress Your Family In Corduroy and Denim_ especially. 

VPLJ, I'm nearly done with _The Married Man _and I think you'd quite like it. I'll probably not read it again, and I'd be happy to send it to you if you/your parentals would be okay with it.


----------



## octobr

Kid's books are for sure the best. Down in phoenix waiting for the flight to Chicago I made friends with an eight-year-old boy who never read Captain Underpants and hated Amelia Bedelia. What.

Also oscar wilde was arrested for the gay on my birthday, isn't that ironic.


----------



## Dannichu

I love kids books, they're the best. Theyt always have the nicest stories and best illustrations~
And I can hold better conversations with 8-year-olds than a lot of people my age. I never really want kids and some of them are annoying, but some of them are just brilliant X3

Also! You should watch this because it's amazing. It was written by the guy who wrote Hairspray and is about (and I quote): During a celebration of “a brand new bright Obama day,” pro-8 folks sneak in and put hate in the constitution — because the Bible says that gay love is a sin. Jesus (Jack Black) appears on the scene to point out that the Bible also forbids shrimp eating and encourages wife stoning. Then Neil Patrick Harris, billed as A Very Smart Fellow, reminds all present that gay marriage provides a boost to the economy. Finally, an argument everyone can agree with. 

And ALSO! (this is very exciting); you know how I was saying how great Sarah Waters is in the post before last? Well, turns out she's doing a book signing at my uni tomorrow! What are the odds of that? I'm really, really looking forward to it~ :D


----------



## Vladimir Putin's LJ

Verne said:


> Kid's books are for sure the best. Down in phoenix waiting for the flight to Chicago I made friends with an eight-year-old boy who never read Captain Underpants and hated Amelia Bedelia. What.
> 
> Also oscar wilde was arrested for the gay on my birthday, isn't that ironic.


what the hell even i read captain underpants when i was little and still do

and yeah well uh
i was born two days after _his_ birthday!
i was supposed to be born on the 16th too which would have been awesome but i decided to come out of the womb too late ugggh goddamnit foetus-self ):<



Dannichu said:


> Also! You should watch this because it's amazing. It was written by the guy who wrote Hairspray and is about (and I quote): During a celebration of “a brand new bright Obama day,” pro-8 folks sneak in and put hate in the constitution — because the Bible says that gay love is a sin. Jesus (Jack Black) appears on the scene to point out that the Bible also forbids shrimp eating and encourages wife stoning. Then Neil Patrick Harris, billed as A Very Smart Fellow, reminds all present that gay marriage provides a boost to the economy. Finally, an argument everyone can agree with.


This sounds awesome and I'll totally watch it tomorrow. Thanks for the link!

And awesome for the signing event, did you have fun? Meeting an author you really like sounds really cool. I hope I'll be able to meet some of my favourites in the future, but it's unlikely :v I could probably dash to Starcon in Holland to meet some sweet Britcom actors before they die though. *_consider this_*



> VPLJ, I'm nearly done with The Married Man and I think you'd quite like it. I'll probably not read it again, and I'd be happy to send it to you if you/your parentals would be okay with it.


Oh, I'm actually going to my local (and only) Waterstone's tomorrow to pick up some stuff tomorrow and I'll look out for the book, but if I can't find it I think that'd be a lovely idea. I'd send you something back but er I don't have anything cool apart from a metric fuckton of pirated dvds ):


----------



## Dannichu

Oooh, the book signing was _amazing_. I asked a couple of questions at the Q&A ("Is the reception of your books and the adaptions different in the US compared to the UK?" and "The Night Watch was very different to your other books; not just because of the different time period but it also felt a lot more character-driven where your others have been more plot-orintated; what made you decide to do this?" - I don't think they were phrased as well as this, though) and she was so articulate and gave long, thought-out responses to everyone; lots of the people there were English Lit students, so she talked about the process of getting her book published and things, and it was all really interesting~

See, often when I see interviews with actresses I like, or ones who play characters I love, I am bitterly disappointed because the actress is a moron and it just ruins it for me; I remember my world shattering after seeing an interview with the woman who played Eowyn in LoTR after she said "I think it's, like, totally awesome that the girls get to kick butt and stuff!" or something to that effect. But the moral of the story is that authors are brilliant and fantastic and all other synonyms for "good"; all the ones I've met are really nice, though the only ones I'd read the books of were Jodi Picoult (who liked my scarf! :D) and Sarah Waters.

And I got her to sign some books and had a very quick talk with her; I said that Fingersmith was my absolute favourite and she asked if I was an English Lit student and I mentioned I was from Devon and she said her partner was from Devon and uuuh I forget what else, but I was in a bit of a fangirly daze the whole time because she was amazing. 
...I don't think I embarassed myself _too _much... though I didn't actually say "I think you're amazing, please marry me", I had a complete stranger tell me I was adorable, and the friend I dragged along delighted in telling me my face was the colour of my t-shirt (bright pink).

Hehe, I ramble a lot.

Waterstone's is the best shop _ever_. I can spend days in the larger stores and my friends and family always dread going in there with me because it's often hours before they can drag me out again. My absolute favourite afternoons are ones where I go there, buy a cool book and sit at the upstairs cafe reading it with a hot chocolate <3
Did you find the book? What else did you get?


----------



## Alexi

Danni, you made me miss Waterstones. :( I wanna go back to England nao. Fricken three-level bookstore is win.

That sounds awesome on a stick as well. ^_^ I had a chance to meet a favourite author of mine, but I was (ironically) in England at the time. XD;;;


----------



## Vladimir Putin's LJ

Oh, I agree, Waterstone's is definitely awesome. I can spend ages there, just browsing and reading excerpts and looking at the little kid's books and all the tapes and history books and and and ;w;



Dannichu said:


> Did you find the book? What else did you get?


Yes! I found the book, surprisingly. It cost ten euro, so I bought it, hurrah. I picked up The Browning Version and Maus, and I was supposed to get Gross Indecency: The Three Trials of Oscar Wilde but it hadn't arrived yet. It'll probably be here next week.
Wheee ordering books with weird titles is fun :v I'd like to buy Mein Kampf and order the Goebbels diaries too but if I did this I'd have to get a bunch of books about Judaism or Jewish history to not feel guilty as hell.


----------



## Harlequin

I love Waterstone's. It's awesome. Though I don't think the one in Swansea has a gay section. Probably not (since, you know, it's in _Swansea_, but it should have one :(), though I wouldn't buy things from there anyway.

hooray books (slightly less "yay" on the lesbianism front because lesbians are icky :( women do not go with women :( they don't go with men either. that's just wasting good men. :( ) 

:P


----------



## octobr

Hey pal, wimmens are fine, tanks.


----------



## xxxbloodysoul666xxx

I am attracted to both men and women.

May I join this club?


----------



## octobr

Absolutely not.


----------



## nyuu

That flower in your avatar is ~awfully~ pretty. Can I touch it?


----------



## xxxbloodysoul666xxx

NWT said:


> That flower in your avatar is ~awfully~ pretty. Can I touch it?


You may touch whatever you find attractive.


----------



## xxxbloodysoul666xxx

^ What do you mean?

Care to elaborate?




What parts of a woman/man do you find most attractive?


----------



## Keltena

Face. Eyes especially. Eyes are just awesome in general.

I also love hair. Although I'm not picky about how it looks. I just like the potential it has to be played with. :D


----------



## xxxbloodysoul666xxx

Salamander said:


> Face. Eyes especially. Eyes are just awesome in general.
> 
> I also love hair. Although I'm not picky about how it looks. I just like the potential it has to be played with. :D


And pulled savagely during intercourse!

I like the torso on guys and girls the best.

Eyes.


----------



## Dannichu

Yeah, eyes are cool. And shoulders. And collarbones as long as they don't stick out a lot - if they do, it's one of the most unattractive things ever. 

Personality is obviously more important than appearance, but freakishly skinny people _scare _me. o.o
I don't find very overweight people attractive, either. It's the "I take care of myself" medium that's important.


----------



## xxxbloodysoul666xxx

Ah.

Overweight... I think it depends.
If a person is overweight and always has been, I'm fine with it.
But the people who are just too lazy to take care of themselves are not attractive to me.

I like shoulders too, mostly thin shoulders on girls and broad shoulders on men.

Personality wise, the person has to be somewhat outgoing, since I am not,
to balance things out.


----------



## Alexi

Butbutbut you can be fat and healthy. 

Umm...Feet. :D Big and hairy on men, small and smooth on women. I also like hair a lot, but also the lack thereof on dudes. And I like bellies on fat dudes, cause I'm cool like that~


----------



## xxxbloodysoul666xxx

Alexi said:


> Butbutbut you can be fat and healthy.
> 
> Umm...Feet. :D Big and hairy on men, small and smooth on women. I also like hair a lot, but also the lack thereof on dudes. And I like bellies on fat dudes, cause I'm cool like that~


I meant that; if a person is big but is healthy, I find that attractive.


I like big feet on men... because you know what they say, right?


I like older men most of the time, around their 30's or so. Women, younger.


----------



## Alexi

Oh, yes, age. :D 

I like young girls (like, really young - twelve or so) and older men. Much older. Like 50+. Yesyes.


----------



## spaekle

Hmm, what _do_ I find attractive on a guy?

I tend to not like really long hair or really short; messy-medium length hair is _yes_. 

_Adam's apples_.  I love the hell out of them.

Guys with nice hips/asses. I'm not sure if I can describe what exactly qualifies as "nice hips/asses", but I guess nice to me works. :V I like skinniness, actually. Not like freakishly unhealthy anorexic-skinny, though. Or maybe what I'm looking for is slender? I'm not sure. 

Mouths/lips/tongues. Yeeeeaaaaah. 

Kind of from out of nowhere, but I got called a 'little boy' at the mall a while back. I admit my jacket was pretty masculine-looking, but the rest of my outfit wasn't and my hair's getting pretty long, so I'm not really sure why; but it still made me chuckle to myself.

Speaking of which, I'm probably going to get my hair cut again (in one of those sexy medium-length messy styles :D) over Christmas break. I'd like a nice peacoat too.


----------



## xxxbloodysoul666xxx

Spaekle Oddberry said:


> Hmm, what _do_ I find attractive on a guy?
> 
> I tend to not like really long hair or really short; messy-medium length hair is _yes_.
> 
> _Adam's apples_.  I love the hell out of them.
> 
> Guys with nice hips/asses. I'm not sure if I can describe what exactly qualifies as "nice hips/asses", but I guess nice to me works. :V I like skinniness, actually. Not like freakishly unhealthy anorexic-skinny, though. Or maybe what I'm looking for is slender? I'm not sure.
> 
> Mouths/lips/tongues. Yeeeeaaaaah.
> 
> Kind of from out of nowhere, but I got called a 'little boy' at the mall a while back. I admit my jacket was pretty masculine-looking, but the rest of my outfit wasn't and my hair's getting pretty long, so I'm not really sure why; but it still made me chuckle to myself.
> 
> Speaking of which, I'm probably going to get my hair cut again (in one of those sexy medium-length messy styles :D) over Christmas break. I'd like a nice peacoat too.


Wow, seems that I am very much your type!

ha ha! I'm joking.

Adam's apples are sexy, especially when you're being intimate. Tongues are too... I like freakishly longue tongues. And long hair...

I like skinny men, but I tend to date big/muscular men.
The plusses of going to the gym :D

And of course, asses.


----------



## Dannichu

Alexi said:


> Butbutbut you can be fat and healthy.


Eh; one of the biggest things for me is self-respect; a person who eats crap food and doesn't excersice properly isn't respecting their body.

Some people have hormone disorders and whatever, but the vast majority of the time, serious overweightness and obesity are because the individual just doesn't care about themselves enough :/

Adams apples are creepy, creepy things o.o


----------



## xxxbloodysoul666xxx

^ I like Adam's apples. Men get excited when you bite along them.


----------



## Alexi

I knew someone with an epic adams apple. It was...kinda creepy, yes.

I agree with you on the fat thing, Danni. When the grease someone eats leaks out their pores, I run far away.


----------



## xxxbloodysoul666xxx

^ That is revolting.

I eat junk, but thankfully my almighty proactive keeps my face smooth.


----------



## Dannichu

xxxbloodysoul666xxx said:


> ^ I like Adam's apples. Men get excited when you bite along them.


It's the men thing that's the turn-off, I suspect X)


----------



## xxxbloodysoul666xxx

Dannichu said:


> It's the men thing that's the turn-off, I suspect X)


:(

Sadly, you do not like us.

Excuse me, I need to have a long, hard cry...


----------



## Alexi

Hmm...the only thing I've eaten from a fast food place are baked potatos from Wendy's. 

The only real junk I eat is instant ramen, oreos, and M&Ms. Alot of M&Ms.


----------



## xxxbloodysoul666xxx

Alexi said:


> Hmm...the only thing I've eaten from a fast food place are baked potatos from Wendy's.
> 
> The only real junk I eat is instant ramen, oreos, and M&Ms. Alot of M&Ms.


I don't think baked potatoes count...

But really, it depends on the food that you eat, howw many carbs it has and whatnot.


----------



## Alexi

Er, and what's in the ingredients. >>

I like how this became a nutrition topic XP


----------



## xxxbloodysoul666xxx

Alexi said:


> Er, and what's in the ingredients. >>
> 
> I like how this became a nutrition topic XP


Ha ha! So random, right?


I love sodomy.


----------



## Vladimir Putin's LJ

In reply to the question, I like men who look like men. You know, broad shoulders, chest hair, arm hair, leg hair, deep voice, the works. Twinks are a complete turn-off, especially because they often look like teenagers and I don't find teens very attractive ( :c )

Er, hips are cool. And hands, especially when they're a bit veiny. Long hair is very much a turn-off, but baldness isn't a favourite either. I like the hair to be nice and short at the back is all.
A bit of muscle goes a long way, too. Nothing young!Schwarznegger standard because ugh, but younger Putin and things, those are awesome body types. (and also just putin in general because _my god_)

I sound pretty fussy here but my standards aren't that high :v


----------



## xxxbloodysoul666xxx

^ I understand. That's why I like men like my father, because he's built and he is very "manly".

If I want to date a girl, I date a girl.

It's that simple.


----------



## Noctowl

I'd like to join as a supporter. Love can flow between any two people.


----------



## xxxbloodysoul666xxx

^ Welcome.

I don't have any sort of authority, but join us.


----------



## Alexi

Join us, Ed, join us, Ed. 

X3


----------



## xxxbloodysoul666xxx

Hello there.

Is it fine for a gay person to call another gay person faggot, or anything like that?

What do you think?


----------



## Alexi

^Well, I call my friends fags all the time, in joke of course. I guess as long as it's not used for malicious intent, it's all cool.


----------



## spaekle

Well, one of my friends has just given up on my whole gender status and now just calls me "faggot". I don't really care because I know he's joking, but I could see someone else being offended by it.

I tend to avoid using words like that unless I'm just trying to be funny and/or I don't really mean gay people, and even then I only use them around friends who know what I mean and don't care.


----------



## Dannichu

I agree; it's fine when it's used among friends in a joking way (and you're _absolutely sure _they don't mind), but calling everything you don't like "gay" or someone who's annoying you "faggot" is both immature and offensive.


----------



## octobr

TOPIC OF ATTRACTIVE STUFF: Tomboys. I mean the tomboys that still have long hair and everythign but just pull it up in a messy ponytail so they have it out of the way. 


NUTRITION: I eat all sorts of crap, it's great.


FAGGOT!: that's such an awesome word. I say it as often as I can cause I like how it sounds.


----------



## Jolty

I constantly tell one of my friends off for saying stuff like "THAT'S GAY" but we call eachother faggot all the time lol

Faggot is my current insult of choice. And 99% of the time my insults are not serious.


----------



## Dannichu

Verne said:


> FAGGOT!: that's such an awesome word. I say it as often as I can cause I like how it sounds.


Really? I hate it. It sounds like a cigarette crossed with maggots DX


----------



## octobr

I like the letter f. Ffffffffffffff. It's one of the few consonants that you can just keep saying, cause nice ones like k and b can't keep going.


----------



## xxxbloodysoul666xxx

^ It is fun to say.


My friends call each other that, but not being serious. One time he even
called the teacher that ha ha!


----------



## octobr

I also like the word gay. Gaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay!

Ah, simple pleasures.


----------



## Zeph

Dannichu said:


> Really? I hate it. It sounds like a cigarette crossed with maggots DX


Agreed.

(Oh yeah, I just tend to lurk here, so please feel free to ignore me~)


----------



## octobr

What is the rainbow shit in everyone's signatures for, is it supposed to be artsy or the gay or gay arts.


----------



## Zeph

Well, ah, I started it, but then the Obsessive Scribblers took it as our sort of mark-of-obsessive-scribbliness.


----------



## Minish

*should check here more often* DX

On the topic of gay literature... uh, I've never read any LGBT literature or seen any LGBT films, but I really want to read _Annie on my Mind_. But my county's libraries don't have it.

On the topic of what's attractive... I find eyes especially attractive, especially in the female sex... and hands, I guess. Um. That's it. XD I also like the long-haired tomboy style as well.

On the topic of faggot... I hate the word and don't use it... when used VERY jokingly between gay people I don't really care, because it's really obvious then they're not serious, but any other use is just... ew. It makes me think of fags, anyway. D: It's a horrible word.


----------



## Alexi

My mom refuses to believe that straight people can be exhibishionist (sp?) and that only gay people are. :(


----------



## Jolty

All the exhibitionists I've ever known were straight


also I've been recently thinking about coming out to my mother at some point soon
I told my dad three years ago and he STILL thinks it's a phase, which irritates me a lot :( 

anyway I honestly do not have a clue how my mum will react :| no idea AT ALL


----------



## spaekle

The rainbow thing is based off of Dannichu's scarf, and the Obsessive Scribbers are using it to show their membership. Although I guess it could be mistaken for the gay. D:

So, my hair's at like my shoulders now. I told my mom I want another haircut, and she was like ":'[ you don't like long hair" and then my brother started making jokes about me becoming a boy, which I stayed quiet through.

God damn it, I'd feel so much better if I were out to my parents, and could start dressing the way I actually want to. I want to be out to them so bad, but there's no way it's going to go over well. I mean, I doubt they'd do anything as drastic as kicking me out of the house, but they _are_ conservative stick-up-their-asses Christian fundamentalists. I could see them either desperately trying to 'correct' me, finally sending me to a therapist (which could either be very very good or very very bad), or just writing it off as a phase. I really don't know _what's_ in my best interest now. This is getting hard to hide from them. :[


----------



## EvilCrazyMonkey

Jolty said:


> I constantly tell one of my friends off for saying stuff like "THAT'S GAY" but we call eachother faggot all the time lol
> 
> Faggot is my current insult of choice. And 99% of the time my insults are not serious.


lolol so true for me

and also i use faggot for parodies too much

on a seemingly unrelated note, this total homophobe in my class has a last name of "dickinson." he's a male, also. dear god have i been fed up with people making fun of my last name for years now. "omg look it's cam's weeny lol"


----------



## xxxbloodysoul666xxx

Alexi said:


> My mom refuses to believe that straight people can be exhibishionist (sp?) and that only gay people are. :(


No disrespect, but your Mother is an idiot


----------



## octobr

> finally sending me to a therapist (which could either be very very good or very very bad)


On most accounts it's usually a very good thing. Therapists are pretty damn awesome.

But then again I'm all for therapies so maybe I'm biased.


----------



## Harlequin

I like men who look like men, mostly. See: Vladimir Putin's LJ's post for more info.


----------



## ZimD

Topic of attractiveness: Hair is usually the first thing I look at. I prefer darker hair usually. On guys, I love hair that's medium-length. Like, not below the neck, but long enough that it can actually kind of move. Like how some guys have hair that's short enough that it won't move if they move their heads. I don't like that. It needs to be longer for guys. Also, Adam's apples are the disgusting, and so are guys with huge muscles. I like guys to be kind of thin or average weight, but not ridiculously skinny.

On girls, I like the hair to be medium or long and straight. I don't like curly hair too much, and I don't really like short hair either on girls. I also like dark hair on girls. I care about weight less for girls. I'm fine with them being skinny, average, or somewhat above average. Chubby can be better on girls, I think. I don't like boobs that are ridiculously small, but I hate ones that are WHOA HUGE. 

These are just what I prefer, though. Looks don't matter too much to me, definitely not nearly as much as personality.



Topic of faggot: I call my friends fags on occasion, and sometimes call things gay, even though I try to avoid it. If it's not being used in a derogatory way, I don't mind it too much. I hate it when people call everything they don't like gay and everyone that they don't like a fag, though. I think if you do it too much it's really stupid and immature. If one of my friends is just joking around and calling me one, I think it's fine, since I know they don't mean it.


----------



## octobr

> Like, not below the neck, but long enough that it can actually kind of move.


Fuckin hippies.


----------



## Harlequin

faggots love things like hippies because it makes them feel human


----------



## Dannichu

Cirrus said:


> *should check here more often* DX
> 
> On the topic of gay literature... uh, I've never read any LGBT literature or seen any LGBT films, but I really want to read _Annie on my Mind_. But my county's libraries don't have it.
> 
> On the topic of what's attractive... I find eyes especially attractive, especially in the female sex... and hands, I guess. Um. That's it. XD I also like the long-haired tomboy style as well.



*long-haired tomboy* :D
Though I notice I have been wearing a lot more pink/purple than I normally do. I have no idea whats up with that. 

Maaaaan I want to read Annie on my Mind too~ Uh, most libraries have ordering services, so if its in any library in your council area (probably your county) you can order it in from there. 
The only really lesbianish books you can find in normal libraries are Sarah Waters books, Val McDerminds novels with Linday Gordon as the main character (the book titles all have "___ for Murder" as in "Booked for Muder" or "Report for Murder" or something and theyre all (obviously) murder mysteries but very good and do honestly have cute bits in amongst all the killing and detective bits. 
And Stella Duffy has done some lesbianish books, but again, theyre mostly crime/murder novels. I have no idea what it is with lesbian writers and crime novels; while her books dont have lesbian protgonists, Patricia Cornwells one of the most famous contemporary crime writers and shes an out lesbian, and Im sure theres more Im forgetting. 

And if you want to watch LGBT movies, search for it on youtube and itll probably be on there. The great thing about gay movies being less mainstream is they get taken down less quickly X3

This post was brought to you from a keyboard with no apostrophe DX


----------



## Keltena

_Annie on My Mind_ is a pretty good book. *goes to a school that put up a display of LGBT books for National Coming Out Day* I think my favorite LGBT book I've read is _Keeping You A Secret_; not sure who it's by. It's very good, though.


----------



## Harlequin

Accepting gays is as bad as destroying the rainforest, guys. http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/7797269.stm


----------



## Vladimir Putin's LJ

Harlequin said:


> Accepting gays is as bad as destroying the rainforest, guys. http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/7797269.stm


Came here to post this.
Seriously I'm starting to hate Ratzinger with every fiber of my being uggh
Can't wait for his 'atheism is the source of evil' Christmas speech, like last year. I've yet to discover something he wouldn't send me to hell for.

Bookwise I'm reading The Married Man right now and it's really good, though a bit weird. Can't say very much about it yet since I'm only on page 75 but still, liking it so-far.
In other book-related faggotry I'm starting to plan a couple of new stories, to develop once I've finished drawing The Five Stages of Love. One's about a sadistic writer and a vicar, which is going to be tons of fun to draw (though the abuse scenes are going to be awkward to show to my mum) and it's pretty much the only one I could start writing now if I wanted to. I still need to do a lot of research for the others, including Legionnaire training and a bunch of medical facts for my sociopath story.

In softer news I'd love to do a LGBT-friendly children's book but I'm not sure what I could do without it being a generic Two Dads thing. I've been thinking about presenting it as a sort of homework a kid would do about their family (we all did this) but it'd still be boring. I AM UNCREATIVE

I'm also going to be in a play as a girl in a dress and this makes me a bit uncomfortable. Then again, not being out to anyone except the Internet doesn't help much, does it :v I'm sure the theatre group's leader wouldn't give me grief about it but I'm a huge pussy.


----------



## OrangeAipom

Joining as transgender due to mass boredom.


----------



## octobr

Vladimir Putin's LJ said:


> In softer news I'd love to do a LGBT-friendly children's book but I'm not sure what I could do without it being a generic Two Dads thing. I've been thinking about presenting it as a sort of homework a kid would do about their family (we all did this) but it'd still be boring. I AM UNCREATIVE


See Gary, see gary run.

See gary look through his mom's closet.

See gary model. Does this make gary's butt look big?


----------



## spaekle

urgh, wtf @ the pope.

My family came over today to have dinner. My uncle kept making unfunny jokes about gay people when we got on the subject of some teacher around here who was gay. Apparently he's moved to a new school and is the choir director. "MORE LIKE QUEER DIRECTOR LOLOLOLOLOLOLOL." I was actually surprised when my grandma and aunt told him to shut up. 

This is the same guy who said he thinks it'd be a good thing if Obama was assassinated. And when he found out I was learning Japanese and going to Japan this summer, he sat next to me at the table and was like "Hi Spaekle! Oh, I mean, KONNICHIWAAAAA LOL". Why does my family have to suck. :\ 

By the way, does anyone remember those old Pokemon picture books from back in Pokemon's heyday? there was one called 'Come out, Squirtle!'. I found this kind of amusing. :p


----------



## octobr

Hi guys hope you had a good day. I did, this church guy was like MERRY CHRISTMAS MY MAN and mom was all 'ahaha lol that's... my daughter'

MURRRRRY CHRISTMAS God I hate celebrating with family.

Also khaos updated! A whole cover page! Hurray!

Shut up verne, go play with your dinosaurs.


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## Vladimir Putin's LJ

Verne said:


> See Gary, see gary run.
> 
> See gary look through his mom's closet.
> 
> See gary model. Does this make gary's butt look big?


seriously considering something like this but I think it's already been done.

so I was telling my mum about some trangender film I wanted to watch and I asked her 'so what if i were a boy and i started wearing girl's clothes? What would you do?' 'THE SAME THING I ALREADY DO SEEING MY DAUGHTER IN BOY'S CLOTHES EVERY DAY ;-;'
It made me feel a bit uncomfortable but oh well.


----------



## Dannichu

So much lol at the Squirtle picture XDDDD
The rainbow just makes it completely perfect.

D: Apects of your family really suck, Speakle; I really dont think I could cope in an environment like that at all. At least youll be ale to move out soon? Which is a terrible thing to say, but still. 

Aaaaah, I would absolutely _love _to do some kind of LGBT kids picture book. Its always been my dream to illustrate kids books (I have a few pictures I did when I was as young as 4 where I remade the books with my own pictures - and I bought myself a colouring in book of the Very hungry Caterpillar just the other week), and Ive never seen copies of stuff like Heather Has Two Mommies or One Dad, Two Dads or whatever its called anywhere ):

And I found Gray Matters on DVD for £2 the other day in a second-hand game shop I go to sometimes. Its not a brilliant film, but it ups my gay movie collection to 4. And my sister got me The Jane Austen Book Club on DVD for Christmas, and one of the characters in that is a lesbian. Oh, and I got Will & Grace season 8 from my parents, too. 

Dannichu makes the yuletide gay XD


----------



## Alexi

So, anyone seeing Milk? 

I got two movie tickets from the National Guard (don't ask), so I may use them to go see it.


----------



## Keltena

I want to go see it sometime before the break ends. My family's considering making plans to go, so yay.


----------



## Coloursfall

My Wilde Youth group is going to go as a big field trip :D  and our trips are FUN.  One of them we spent an entire two-hour car ride singing Queen songs. xD [/ramble]


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## Dannichu

I want to see it; I've seen trailers and read reviews and looked up Milk and his associate's lives online and it looks fantastic, but it's not showing in the UK yet. I don't know if it will, either.


----------



## Vladimir Putin's LJ

I'd love to go and see Milk, but it's not out in Belgium yet, I think. I'll probably end up watching it online if the worst comes to the worst.

Also, what do you guys think of outing other people? I have mixed opinions, because on one side it's disgusting to out a regular person, but when someone who's very anti-gay in everyday life gets outed I let out a secret cheer.
Then I feel bad ):


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## Harlequin

I think I'd rather be outed than have to tell people :( it's easier!

but it's a pretty dickish thing to do, really. Most people have genuine reasons for not outing themselves so why do it for the sake of dickery?


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## octobr

All depends on who's doin the outing, who's getting outed, what their relationship is...

I mean if it's your best friend and you both know that you don't want in on that game then whoa not cool. But if it's your buddy and you've either asked or acknowledged that it's for the better, then, well, it's alright, I suppose.


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## Vladimir Putin's LJ

Yeah, I think that if you ask a friend to out you it's perfectly alright, but outing someone for the hell of it is dickish as fuck.

On an unrelated note: How the fuck is Boris trusted with more than a dog, let alone the people of London uggghh
Bigotted douche. It's going to be super fun when Cameron gets elceted, I'm sure.


----------



## Dannichu

Aaaaah, this will not diiiiiie~

Guh, Boris D< It sucks; every time I start thinking that the UK is a pretty cool place, LGBT-stuff-wise (look at all the gay-related stuff the BBC churns out - I'm assuming I was the only one to catch the airing of Affinity a couple of weeks ago? Good stuff.) and then something like this comes along. :/


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## Harlequin

sigh

damn Conservatives. wish they'd stop being silly about gays, then I could totally vote for them with _no_ reservations.


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## Vladimir Putin's LJ

Boris did show up at the Pride Parade, so er credits to him I guess. He's still an asshole but a lesser one.
Has Cameron ever been to a Parade? He should. He's your future Prime Minister, he should pre-emptively go to this year's.

Speaking of parades, is anyone going to one this year? I'll probably check out Brussels Pride if I don't mess up the date (like last year fff).


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## Dannichu

Uuuuh maybe? Depends when it's on/who wants to come with. I've never been to one, but it would be pretty cool. 

Also! I was in London today and was thrilled by the number of posters on the Underground advertising Milk. I'm assuming that means it's gonna have a pretty large release, which is awesome, because I thought it might've been one of those movies that showed at about three gay cinemas, was released by a DVD label that nobody has ever heard of, and the only way I could see it would either be online or striking incradibly lucky at an obscure second-hand DVD shop (like I found Gray Matters for £2 the other week! :D). My point is, I'm hoping it shows at Canterbury's Odeon and I can persuade my homies to come with. I know my best friend's desperate to see it, so I might make the trip over to London to see it with her sometime, too. 

Ooh, and I also finally got around to watching V for Vendetta today and absolutely loved it. Stephen Fry is awesome <3


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## Harlequin

I don't think I'd like a Pride type event, too much gay going on. (seriously that's my reason. I know I've pulled off a whole lot of gay [lol dr frank says hi] but that's too much for me.)


----------



## spaekle

I have this college I really _really_ want to go to; my 'dream college' I guess, and for a while I was very concerned about how LGBT-friendly the city is.

So, I got off my butt and did some research, and apparently I was being rather silly. It's one of the most gay-friendly cities in the country and hosts one of the US's biggest pride parades. xD There's a section of the city's tourism website for gays and everything. I really don't know how I've managed to go to this city so many times and not notice this. Now I'm going to be very sad if I don't get into this college. :( 

The friendliness is really nice, but I'm not so sure if I'd go to the parade. It kind of depends on what sort of shindig it is. Might not be my sort of thing.

The V for Vendetta movie _is_ awesome. I should read the graphic novel.


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## Dannichu

Please tell me the city's LA/NY so I can laugh X3
But seriously, that's really awesome; I really hope you get in there, because it sound like it'll be a really refreshing change from the town you currently live in~
And even if you don't go to the events and things, towns that have pride parades and stuff are socially more accepting of LGBT people; and (in the UK at least) university cities and towns are really open-minded about stuff because educated young people are awesome. Everyone I've come out to at uni (which is like 6 people but still) has been totally fine with it, and all my female friends here seem to have a gay guy for a best friend. 

My housemate has the V for Vendetta graphic novel, which I need to steal and read. And the book version of Fried Green Tomatoes (I've seen the we-took-out-the-gay-to-get-a-PG-rating movie), which I really should read at some point or they'll take away my toaster X3


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## Harlequin

Oh, yeah, the whole coming out thing is like a non-event really. Still haven't come out to my family because it's funnier this way but all the friends I've told (which admittedly isn't many) have been like "oh lol really? cool i guess."


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## Dannichu

Ooh, Milk's been nominated for 8 Oscars. That is very, very cool :D

Found this article earlier about the UK's attitudes towards gay people and it was really, really interesting (it's really long, but click on it just to see the opinon graphs). Some of the statistics are pretty cool; "89% of people are in favour
of laws which would make it illegal to incite hatred on the grounds of sexual orientation.", which is awesome till you realize that means 11% of people think there shouldn't be. Ah well. We'll get there. The UK's making some good progress. 

Actually, talking about the UK being all crazy-liberal, this made me giggle.


----------



## Harlequin

I like the atheist bus ; ; I think it's neat.

Also on the subject of gay we really need to get rid of civil unions in favour of marriage. It's not such an important thing really but it's one of those niggling things because it's like "you're _different_ but _equal :D"_ (and everyone knows how well that works!)


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## Vladimir Putin's LJ

Hahaha, some of the graphs made me laugh.
88% would feel comfortable if a member of the Royal family were gay (because... we all know that members of the Royal family have sex with people of the same gender? I don't know I thought this was pretty obvious, especially since Charles got caught and all)!
60% hate young people! Sixty per cent of Britain is made up of crabby old bitches!

And who were the 3% who said that gay people are most likely to hide their sexual orientation in art-related jobs because really. _Really._
2% think the BNP is gay friendly.
I mean these are all in real life trolls or legally retarded.

The atheist bus is sweet.


----------



## octobr

Atheist bus kinda annoys me.

Wish they would do that survey stateside, it'd be worth a lol.


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## Dannichu

I think the bus is pretty funny - it's relatively common to see big quotes from scripture on posters around the London Underground, so it's only fair if the other side gets to put up some advertising, too. Plus, lots of the religious stuff is a great deal more heavy than "stop worrying and enjoy life!". 

I know, I wish they'd done a US version of attitudes, etc. so they could be compared and things; I mean, we hear about a lot of horrendously anti-gay stuff happening in USland, but that doesn't mean it's representative of everyone. 
Like the survey said, despite some religious leaders being absolute bigots (leading loads of people to think that religoious people = anti-gay), religious people in general are no more homophobic than the average person off the street, which is very cool. :)


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## Vladimir Putin's LJ

Unless it's the Pope who's basically a dick (the current oneat least)


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## Harlequin

I'd say being a dick is one of the traits you need to be pope

given their track record, anyway!

I think people are surprising. People you think would be iffy with gays turn out to be really sort of "who cares" about the whole thing! and people you think would _hate_ gays turn out to be like "lol it's weird but w/e." I've not had a "OMFG YOU SICKO" reaction though. maybe because they know it's not in vogue?


----------



## xxxbloodysoul666xxx

^ me either.

It's always either one of those.


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## EvilCrazyMonkey

ON TOPIC OF GAYS: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nhEiw07Vqoc IS AMAZING.
haha that is the greatest video i have ever seen.


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## octobr

WTF. :B

So I'm gonna do a research project for English about lgbt rights and how to have us not treated like shit

probably accidentally outing myself in the meanwhile

BUT HEY!


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## EvilCrazyMonkey

haha on this formal standardized test of last year it asked us to write about what we could do if we had a day to spend with a celebrity

i chose george bush and we went to a gay rights parade.

hehe once i used "we" to refer to lgbts so i may have outed myself to the people who grade it (but it's not like they know me personally :/).


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## octobr

Yeah it's the we I'm sorta afraid of. I'm pretty excited about the project though -- we can do surveys and interviews (in fact, interviews are required) about our projects, so it's gonna be real interesting.

I'm planning on doing a survey on the Day of Silence, in which I'm going to participate. Just to feel out peoples' reactions.


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## Minish

We had to do a 'debate' in class, like set up a 'for' and an 'against' side for a cause, and then people would vote and all that. And we did gay marriage. :3 I've probably said it before, but since you're talking about LGBT-related projects.

It was really awesome, we got to yell a lot at people. Obviously hardly anyone voted for us, since they don't want to get verbally abused for the next few months, but it was really hilarious when the teacher whispered to us at the end, "I'd vote for you!"


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## Dannichu

http://vimeo.com/3089746

^ I dare you to watch this without tearing up ;;

It's terrible that people didn't vote for you on that project-thing, Cirrus; it's sad that people don't stand up for other people's rights because they're scared of what other people think. ): 
But very well done for doing it; I bet it was awesome. And you have a very cool teacher :3

And you should post your English project here when you're done with it, Verne (assuming you're writing it on a computer). I wish I got to do more LGBT-related stuff on my course, but at the moment Sociology's the only one of my modules that's touched on it more than briefly, though I know there's a sex and gender topic coming up at some point that should be awesome fun to write an essay about. I've already read the chapter about it in my textbook and it's really cool (and has a picture of The Village People in XD). 
And I had the best coming-out ever in front of my entire Social Policy seminar group, where we were discussing women having children, careers or both, and when my seminar leader asked me if I'd choose kids over a job, I said if my hypothetical partner wanted kids, she could have them herself.


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## Alexi

Well, since we're talking about school projects...

I might have mentioned this before, but right now I'm doing a marriage and family project for my sociology class. We have to pick a spouse (or roommate or go single) and then we get a baby and have to take care of it and live life "in the real world" for about three weeks. I asked my teacher if I could marry another guy, and she said no. D: She said it's because the state no longer recognizes same-sex marriage or some other such bullshit. Aigh. She's damn lucky I have to stay in the closet for my parents, otherwise I'd make a big stink about it. >>


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## octobr

Ahaha gaycist 

also the woman at 1:30 has a gorgeous dress. The little girl at 2:23 is adorable. And the one with the pregnant woman <3 I am SO using this video for my presentation.

And yeah I'll post it -- it's gonna be over 10 pages but hey. XP We get to make the finished product more of an article than an essay, meaning graphs and images, so it shouldn't be HUEG.

My school is fairly closed minded so we never discuss anything LGBT at all ... ever ... for anything. This is the only time I've ever had the opportunity to bring it up.

Also that is the greatest. And bravest. 


also for the day I present I'm seriously considering coming in with a drawn-on moustache, or, in order to representing transsexuality (which is really a hard concept to grasp), bringing in a skirt and blouse and having a guy in the class wear it and calling him a female name for the rest of the presentation. GO team.


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## octobr

Alexi said:


> Well, since we're talking about school projects...
> 
> I might have mentioned this before, but right now I'm doing a marriage and family project for my sociology class. We have to pick a spouse (or roommate or go single) and then we get a baby and have to take care of it and live life "in the real world" for about three weeks. I asked my teacher if I could marry another guy, and she said no. D: She said it's because the state no longer recognizes same-sex marriage or some other such bullshit. Aigh. She's damn lucky I have to stay in the closet for my parents, otherwise I'd make a big stink about it. >>


so be roommates with another guy.

Sure, you're not married, but hey, so is life. Besides you could raise your kiddo as a cute little queer.


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## Vladimir Putin's LJ

Dannichu said:


> http://vimeo.com/3089746
> 
> ^ I dare you to watch this without tearing up ;;


aaaaa the two old guys with their '43 years partnered! Korea & Vietnam veterans' sign
Old gay couples are the cutest thing. I mean old couples in general too but you know. And the gaycist sign hahaha

I hope Proposition 8 will be retracted or that they at least don't nullify these marriages. It's disgusting.

Good luck with your projects, Alexi and Verne! Like Verne said, maybe you could be roomates instead? It still sucks that the teacher won't let you marry a guy but hey, next best thing I guess.
Verne, a sincere wish of courage for the whole coming-out thing if you decide to go through with it and if not, you're still very brave for doing said project in an apparently conservative school. While I think the cross-dressing is a good idea for the guy, make sure you don't make the moustache too 'drag-king' looking if you do draw it on. Might give people the wrong idea. I hate having to explain to people that no, drag kings/queens and transsexuals are not the same goshdarn thing dagnabit and I'm sure you do too.

In fun news: I told my best male friend that I thought I might be trans and he's been ignoring me and replying in very short sentences whenever I try to make conversation.
I don't know if it's just a coincidence and he just doesn't feel like talking or something but it's still pretty hard. We've been friends for nearly ten years now so I wasn't expecting it.
Then again he's been hanging out with 'the boys' a lot lately, never comes to the library with me anymore, laughs at the usual offensive gay jokes his new friends tell him and refused to wear a red ribbon I'd made him on AIDS-Awareness Day, giving a stupid reason like 'but it'd look bad on me, my shirt's black.' The best thing in this was that I was dressed completely in black that day. This is the same guy who just last year got as pissed off as I did when we saw that 'homosexualité' had a little 'voyez aussi: transexualité, pedophilie, bestialité' label on it in the library dictionary and who proof-read my comic without batting an eyelid.
Now he's just a douchebag, apparently.


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## octobr

I didn't realize really that prop 8 was much more than just UH DON'T GET MARRIED HERE, GAY PEOPLE. I did some research on it (haha the afa site made me want to kill someone, seriously, never look at it ever.) and found out that it was also going to act as if marriages from other states didn't exist and all that. Jesus. Certain people should be kicked in the teeth.

darn it i wanted a snidely whiplash moustache

You should punch him in the face and tell him to snap out of it. Or cry, maybe he'll respond to crying, jerks never know what to do there. 

In reality that sucks -- and if he's been fine with all this it sounds like he's just falling prey to a sort of peer pressure and needs to be brought back down to earth. These new friends don't sound so healthy. Actually, you should punch _them_ in the face.


----------



## Dannichu

Oh Vlad ): That's really awful. I hate it so much when people change completely when they're around their "other friends" (who clearly aren't great friends if they strip them of their own opinion), but the situation with your friend sounds like the absolute worst.
):



> 'homosexualité' had a little 'voyez aussi: transexualité, pedophilie, bestialité' label on it in the library dictionary


That's... really, really sick. I found a couple of books in the uni library saying how homosexuality is some kind of severe mental disorder or whatever, but they were written in 1900 or something, so they're somewhat excused.

On a lighter (and completely irrelevant, but I figured I'd share it) note, I never realized till I sorted out my books earlier how gay my reading material is. I have 21 non-Sociology-related books with me at uni, of which:

*10 have a gay main character (Fingersmith, Dress Your Family in Cordory and Denim, Affinity, The World Unseen, Running With Scissors, The Married Man, Booked for Murder, Hostage to Murder, Santaland Diaries and Under the Southern Cross)
*2 have gay side-characters (Dead Beat and Hey Nostrudamus!)
*2 are written by gay authors (Eating Cake by Stella Duffy and Sexing the Cherry by Jeanette Winterson)
*2 of the non-gay books are picture books aimed at young children (How to Live Forever and The Very Hungry Caterpillar)
*1 is a book I bought purely because of the gay subtext (The Devil Wears Prada)
*2 are non-fiction; one a guide to drawing, the other about 24.
*...And I have Girlfriend in a Coma because I love Douglas Coupland's writing.

Good times.


----------



## Alexi

Verne said:


> I didn't realize really that prop 8 was much more than just UH DON'T GET MARRIED HERE, GAY PEOPLE. I did some research on it (haha the afa site made me want to kill someone, seriously, never look at it ever.) and found out that it was also going to act as if marriages from other states didn't exist and all that. Jesus. Certain people should be kicked in the teeth.


It's been that way since gay people could get married in America. Full Faith and Credit does not recognize gay marriage, just straight marriage. It's bullshit.

As for my project, I decided to shack up with another dude as "roommates". I got a funny look from my teacher about it, since she knew the innuendo will be flying soon, but she can't stop us. X3


----------



## Dannichu

'Nother absolutely adorable video <3

Kind of a shame the still clip shows the middle; it'd work so much better if you didn't know the context and what was gonna happen, but eh. Still really cute, and I love that song :3


----------



## Vladimir Putin's LJ

Oh my god that video is the cutest thing

Didn't some vicars get married (okay, 'civil-unionized') to each other in real life some time ago, causing some controversy? or am I just imagining stuff again.

fake edit: I watched Beautiful Thing yesterday and ffffff it's awesome ;w; LESS FOCKIN' AND MORE ATTENTION PLEASE. That's what you should've said to your boyfriend eh.


----------



## Dannichu

I think so... I remember a vicar/some kind of within-religious-servitude guy got married a while back (not nessisarily to another vicar) and there was some controversy about that.

I just looked up Beautiful Thing on Wiki and imdb and it looks really, really good. If nothing else, the soundtrack looks awesome, and another gay movie with a happy ending is ++++. 
Actually, thinking about it, I can't think of a truly happy gay movie that was made outside of the UK. That kinda sucks.


----------



## Vladimir Putin's LJ

I remember reading about it in a newspaper in English about three or four years ago. It wasn't a vicar, but it was indeed a guy in the CofE, just higher-placed than a vicar. He got married to his partner of like twenty years and some churches wouldn't let him go inside. It was really depressing to read about and I can't for the life of me remember the man's name :/

Beautiful Thing is awesome and it is fully available on youtube (it was a bit hard to find though but I can link it if you'd like). It's good to see a gay-themed film that ends well for once because I'm a bit fed up with having one of the people either die or leave the other or whatever. AIDS films depress the hell out of me especially.


----------



## Dannichu

The idea of churches not letting people in disgusts me. Who can turn someone who wants to worship away from entering a _church_? That is the exact opposite of every singe thing Jesus wanted, I reckon.

I think I do need to watch it. It's number 2 on AfterElton's top 50 Gay Movies, of which I've only seen three - Brokeback, Rocky Horror and Rent. Which, as someone who isn't a gay man, I shouldn't find as shameful as I do, but yeah. 

AfterEllen should do a movie list like that. I bet I've seen well over half X3


----------



## Vladimir Putin's LJ

In the Jehova's Witness pamphlets I get one of the very convincing arguments they use is 'CHRISTIAN CHURCHES LET IN CRIMINALS! WE ON THE OTHER HAND REFUSE THE ENTRY OF MURDERERS, PAEDOPHILES AND HOMOSEXUALS INTO OUR SACRED SPACES' and I'm like fffff

Attitude recently did an Essential 75 Gay (gay and lesbian and trans really) Films thing two months ago, and I was very sad at having seen very little of them. On the other hand, I now know what to look out for! :v
If anyone's interested, said list (bolded are the ones I've seen):
The Adventures Of Priscilla Queen Of The Desert (1994) 
All About My Mother (1999) 
And The Band Played On (1993)
Bad Education (2004) 
*Beautiful Thing (1996)* 
Bent (1997)
Billy Elliot (2000) 
Bound (1996) 
Boyfriends (1996)
*Boys Don’t Cry (1999)* (FtM movie, depressing as hell)
The Boys In The Band (1970) 
*Brokeback Mountain (2005) *
The Broken Hearts Club (2000) 
Cabaret (1972) 
*Capote (2005) * (Seymour is amazing in this aaaa. But his voice ): )
Chuck & Buck (2000) 
Cruising (1980)
The Crying Game (1992) 
Death In Venice (1971) (Wanna see this despite paedo undertones)
Dottie Gets Spanked (1993) 
Far From Heaven (2002) 
Fucking Åmål (1998)
Get Real (1998) 
Gods And Monsters (1998) 
Head On (1998) 
Hedwig And The Angry Inch (2001) 
*The History Boys (2006) *(quite good)
In & Out (1997) 
In Bed With Madonna (1991) 
Jeffrey (1995) 
Kiss of The Spider Woman (1985)
Kissing Jessica Stein (2001) 
L.I.E. (2001)
*La Cage Aux Folles (1978)* (original French version of course. i am an elitist)
*Latter Days (2003)*
The Life Of Harvey Milk (1983) 
Longtime Companion (1990) 
Love Is The Devil (1998) 
*Ma Vie En Rose (2007) *(MtF, adorable)
Making Love (1982)
*Maurice (1987) *(lovely but christ, clive, fuck off forever)
Milk (2008) (wanna see this)
My Beautiful Laundrette (1985) (this too)
My Best Friend’s Wedding (1997) (I don't know why this is here since there's only one gay character in it but er)
My Own Private Idaho (1991) 
Mysterious Skin (2004) 
Object Of My Affection (1998) 
The Opposite Of Sex (1998)
Paris Is Burning (1990) 
Parting Glances (1986)
Philadelphia (1993) (wanna watch it)
Pink Flamingos (1972)
Presque Rien (2000) 
Prick Up Your Ears (1987)
*Priest (1995)* (imagine my uncontrollable sobbing because it happens every time I see this fucking thing)
Querelle (1982) (wanna read/watch this)
*The Rocky Horror Picture Show (1975)* (<3)
Sebastiane (1976) (want)
Shelter (2007) 
Shortbus (2006)
Stonewall (1995) 
Swoon (1992)
*The Talented Mr Ripley (1999) * (but I saw it when I was like nine so yeah. the scene where matt damon beats jude law to death with a rowing boat paddle scarred me for years)
Time To Leave (2005) 
Torch Song Trilogy (1988) 
Totally Fucked Up (1993)
Trick (1999) 
To Wong Foo, Thanks For Everything! Julie Newmar (1995) 
Victim (1962)
Victor Victoria (1982) 
The Wedding Banquet (1993)
*Wilde (1997) *
Without You I’m Nothing (1990) 
XXY (2007)
Y Tu Mama Tambien (2001)

On another note: why does FtM surgery suck so much.


----------



## Harlequin

I need to watch more gay films. I can't find many online, though, and I don't really have the funds nor the inclination to buy them. :(

Seen Cabaret, Rocky Horror, Latter Days, Rent and a few other ones, though!


----------



## Alexi

> On another note: why does FtM surgery suck so much.


It's easier to dig a hole than build a pole. D:


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## Minish

I need to see some LGBT films in general. DX

The only one I've seen is Brokeback Mountain, and I only watched it for the first time like, a month ago. Wanted to go see Milk with my friend as well. :/


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## octobr

Alexi said:


> It's easier to dig a hole than build a pole. D:


Pretty much

the poor results and giant scars are the reasons I'm not planning on ever getting one. Those combined with the price and rarity of surgeons willing to do it...


----------



## Dannichu

Of that list, I've seen Billy Elliot, Bound, Brokeback, half of Fucking Amal (which, by the way, is the most random movie title ever), The History Boys (as a play, not the movie), Kissing Jessica Stein and Rocky Horror. 

That list was totally written by a gay man, though. No lesbian would rate Kissing Jessica Stein over films like When Night is Falling, Imagine Me & You, Lost and Delirious, Better than Chocolate or even D.E.B.S.

And Bound's decent, but it's not like the characters are particularly relatable (that said, it was directed by the guys who made the Matrix films).

Milk didn't show at any cinemas near me (there's an adorable picture house in Clapham that was showing it and I was gonna go, but it clashed with my friend's a-capella choir's gig), but I think the uni's LGBT society is gonna show it at the uni cinema at some point.


----------



## Harlequin

Well, Danni, that's because gay men are _so much better_ at being gay than you silly lesbians. Silly, silly lesbians!

(:P)


----------



## surskitty

lesbians are too hot for television :<


----------



## octobr

it cannot be!!


----------



## Dannichu

surskitty said:


> lesbians are too hot for television :<


It's sad because it's true. There's not a single lesbian character on non-cable TV in the US, and the handful of female bisexuals are getting royally screwed over (case in point: Thirteen in House, half the cast of Grey's Anatomy).

They've randomly made the lesbian character in Nip/Tuck straight, and they've killed off one of the main characters in the final season of The L Word. Not cool.

Things are marginally better in the UK with a new lesbian plotline in Skins and something happening in Hollyoaks (which I refuse to watch on the grounds that it's God-awful).

I've been comforting myself by watching loads of Murder in Suburbia, which is a brilliant UK crime-murder-mystery-cop programme that only has 12 episodes, but the lead characters have more subtext than House and Wilson.

rantrantrant.


----------



## Vladimir Putin's LJ

More subtext than House and Wilson?
So do they just fuck on-screen or what.


----------



## octobr

So:

on valentine's mom gave me a card that read 'to the perfect daughter' and had a poem about things stereotypical daughters do. 


Thanks mom.


----------



## Dannichu

Vladimir Putin's LJ said:


> More subtext than House and Wilson?
> So do they just fuck on-screen or what.


They share a bed (in a hotel's honeymoon suite of all things). And constantly discuss growing old together. And touch hands a lot. And have lots of jealous glaring at guys the other might be interested in. (see 7:57 onwards here) Shame there's only two six-episode seasons. I love them~



Verne said:


> So:
> 
> on valentine's mom gave me a card that read 'to the perfect daughter' and had a poem about things stereotypical daughters do.
> 
> Thanks mom.


Oh Verne ):

Have you talked to her about it? Because that's just plain mean.


----------



## octobr

Yeah, well, no, I'm too reserved. Instead I just quietly fume and expect her to read these posts.


----------



## octobr

http://www.gallup.com/poll/1651/Homosexual-Relations.aspx

Hmm.


----------



## Vladimir Putin's LJ

What's up with the weird, sudden drops in 2003 and 2007?


----------



## octobr

Haven't the slightest. Might be related to random movements, ie, prop 8?


----------



## EvilCrazyMonkey

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dqXAbIkTFEk&feature=rec-HM-fresh+div made me tear up. :(

whyy are there so many depressing, homosexual-related videos on the interwebs?


----------



## octobr

TransAction is the 27th. I like all the info they have on the website. http://dayofsilence.org/transaction.html Wanna print out and hand out copies of all those cept some are HUEG.

Also that was cute.


----------



## octobr

Hurrr me again.

Dustin Lance Black won best screenplay for screen with Milk. He got up there and gave this really great speech about how when his family moved to California and he heard about Harvey Milk it gave him hope about his future and falling in love and getting married -- at the end he directed his speech at the gay and lesbian kids in America and about how they will soon have equal rights and that no matter what people say they are beautiful people and God loves them.

I had to go get ice cream so I wouldn't cry. :c


----------



## Keltena

I saw that, too.

It was amazing. ;_;


----------



## nyuu

hey gays
why do people call homosexuality a lifestyle


----------



## Gardevoir Girl

Hello.

I disappeared a few months ago.

Now I'm back.

So, uh, rejoining I guess.


----------



## Minish

On my school's internet system, anything relating to homosexuality is blocked as 'Alternative Lifestyles'. ;_; Sites like AfterEllen, Queer Youth Network etc.

(and anything with the word 'paganism' or 'wicca' on it is blocked as 'occult'. my school really sucks sometimes. o_0)

I'm going to try transgenderism and see if that's blocked as 'Alternative Lifestyles' as well...


----------



## Alexi

^If that happened at my school, I'd make such a big fuss about it XD


----------



## Minish

Heh, me and my friend plan to in the future. |D And I'm going to do Day of Silence just to confuse people.

Most of the school will laugh in bewilderment and scorn or something, but maybe some will actually get the message as well!


----------



## Dannichu

Argh, my old school's computer systems used to filter out everything vaguely gay, too - which made researching for my Philosophy and Ethics essay on homosexuality rather difficult - though, admittedly, not as difficult as my friend who wrote about pornography X3


----------



## octobr

Wait, what?

Alternative lifestyles are bad?


My school is pretty good, I can still access ... here, for instance, and a lot of websites about homosexuality and transgenderism -- unfortunately some more useful websites are blocked as Pornography (Japanese) or whatever. Yeah, we have specific nationality porn blocks. Which is why I can't get to the wiki page for lolita.


ALSO AN EVENT IN THE WORLD OF VERNE HAS HAPPENED!!
I sent my friend a loooong time ago (last semester... yeah) a note about me being trans. Today she responded. I am so giddy about it -- she didn't make _any_ judgments -- I quote, 'the real reason I wanted to write you a letter was because I was just wondering how everything is going. I mean with figuring out who you are and all that' -- I am pretty thrilled. She really gets it, she even said acknowledged that sexuality has nothing to do with it (in form of a question of 'uh so wait what /do/ you like'). 

wpeoiajfe.


----------



## octobr

DOUBLE POST LOL! But hey, look, Dustin Lance Black's speech:

http://www.couragecampaign.org/page/s/ThankYouForMilk


----------



## spaekle

I would have hated it if all things LGBT-related were blocked on my school's computers. For a while the school computers were my only means of accessing such information without a list of every site I'd gone to being sent to my parents. :(

So, I came out to my APUSH teacher. Or, well, I got outed.

She's the one who's taking us on the trip to Japan. We have a meeting coming up that our parents can attend, so while my friends and I were all talking with Teacher I asked my friend (incidentally the same one I bitch about all the time) not to say anything stupid in front of my mom. His response was something like, "What am I going to say? 'Hey, Ralph, when's your sex change?!'"

I tried playing that much of it off as a joke, but later on in the conversation we're taking about my aforementioned friend being gay and my teacher comes right out and asks, "So, are you gay too, or...?" Aaaand it all just kind of came out (ha ha ha) from there.

She was perfectly okay with it, which I expected from her (gay brother who she loves to death, extremely open-minded and awesome, blah), but it was still pretty nerve-wracking. She didn't really ask any questions; she was mostly just concerned about whether it was going to cause any problems on the trip (rooming arrangements and whatnot). I assured her that it wouldn't, so it was all pretty cool. She said it was good for her to know things like this so she could make arrangements if need be, and that was pretty much it.

...After my friends left she apologized for my one friend putting me on the spot like that, and I said it was okay. I asked her to please not tell anyone or bring it up, and she seemed kind of concerned when I added "not even my mom", but she agreed to.

I just don't know. I don't know whether it's finally being out to a teacher, an adult, an authority figure that makes this awesome or what it is. I even cried for a little while. But I'm still really really happy. I can't explain it. <3


----------



## octobr

Oh man that sounds awesome. Teachers can be really cool sometimes.

Hoho, Spaekle and Verne, outin' themselves awkwardly one person at a time.


----------



## Minish

Argh, I did my heaven presentation today in English class (couldn't avoid it anymore XD). Where we had to make a presentation about where our hypothetical heaven would be, and the three people we'd meet there, who heavily influenced our life.

And I chose my third person (who had to be someone we don't know yet, from the future) as my child, but rather than just the boring one I said the child never happened, and was just the image of them from when I was a kid.

And I was going to use this as an excuse to say 'I won't have a kid because I'm gay' but I kind of chickened out. :/ Then again I was rambling a LOT because of my nerves, so... but still, I wanted to do it... argh.

Spaekle, that sounds great! I get so happy when I hear little stories that prove not all teachers are narrow-minded prats. xD


----------



## Dannichu

This is the most epic thing I've seen in a long while. It's nice to see an advertisment company get it right for once.


----------



## octobr

Baw. (And spanish practice whoo)

I love queer ads. :B I still like that one you linked me ages ago... this one even though it's fairly obvious from the start. Pretty though.


----------



## Dannichu

Yeah, I really love that one. I can't pick between it and the gay-marriage-with-True-Colours as my absolute favourite :)

Such a shame that you never actually see any of these play on TV. I think a while back the D&G ones (like this) aired, but that's about it.


----------



## Gardevoir Girl

I'm currently hovering uncertainly somewhere between pansexual and gay. Have been for quite a while now.

Advice please?


----------



## Keltena

You don't need to label yourself. You're attracted to whoever you're attracted to, and that's fine. At least, that's how I think of it anyway.


----------



## octobr

Srsly.

Pansexual is pretty much an 'I'm special~~~' word anywho. Every time someone says it I lol cause I think pan = all and imagine them flirting with a tree.

hey baby. how about we make like trees and leave.

Wait I didn't mean to be offensive -- come back baby!


----------



## EvilCrazyMonkey

Verne said:


> Srsly.
> 
> Pansexual is pretty much an 'I'm special~~~' word anywho. Every time someone says it I lol cause I think pan = all and imagine them flirting with a tree.
> 
> hey baby. how about we make like trees and leave.
> 
> Wait I didn't mean to be offensive -- come back baby!


haha. it's also the latin root for 'bread,' so i think of a person flirting with a loaf of bread. lol.

also, GG, it doesn't really matter what your sexuality is. labeling oneself will only cause confusion and/or sadness.


----------



## Minish

When I went through a period of thinking I was pan, someone heard about it at school or something, and _seriously_ thought I was attracted to pots and pans. They didn't even think it would be a fetish, they just thought my sexual orientation was kitchenware or something. XDD

And labels _suck_. I've been confused as to what I am for ages, so I just go 'probably gay' and leave it at that now. Don't feel like you HAVE to label yourself.


----------



## surskitty

I haven't adopted any particular labels, beyond "who cares really" and "girls are decent".  ... but it's pretty much 'who cares'.


----------



## Alexi

^What they said.

Really, I feel like the best way to go is to dig whoever it is you dig - regardless of gender.


----------



## Zhorken

I like whomever the hell I like.  Girls seem more intriguing most of the time, but that's probably mostly because I've never had access to a girl's body.

("had access" dammit zhorken you nerd)

EDIT: ftr I keep up with this club for the most part but don't post much at all


----------



## octobr

I have access. It's not that mysterious, really, but boobs are wiggly


----------



## Zhorken

Oh, no, I know how girl bodies work.  83  I just meant I've never had a chance to play with one; I'm not looking to examine one and unravel mysteries or anything.


----------



## octobr

Reminds me of this video. 

I wouldn't mind playing with one either... 




So which of our lovely lesbians is gonna be willing to play test hamster...


----------



## nyuu

I wouldn't mind unraveling mysteries


----------



## Lupine Volt

Um...I'd like to join. As a bisexual who has been thinking about this for a long, long time.


----------



## Dannichu

's good to have you :D


----------



## Keltena

Welcome to the club~ ^^


----------



## Gardevoir Girl

Remember how I was confused about my sexuality?

Well, after spending almost a year as pan/bi, now I know I'm gay. And I moved two weeks ago, and it seems like every single girl for miles in any direction is straight. I hate my area.


----------



## Flazeah

Welcome to the club, Animorph! :3



Gardevoir Girl said:


> Remember how I was confused about my sexuality?
> 
> Well, after spending almost a year as pan/bi, now I know I'm gay. And I moved two weeks ago, and it seems like every single girl for miles in any direction is straight. I hate my area.


 Congrats on figuring yourself out. Feels great not to be confused, nay? :D

 I recommend joining some sort of club in your new area. You might not find any gay girls, but you might find some adorable ones and get to have fun discovering a new hobby at the same time.


----------



## octobr

I'm watching milk right now. Sean Penn is wonderful and this is really very good. Sad already though. Nothing's happened but it starts out with him recording his speech for the possibility of him being assassinated.


----------



## Harlequin

I think more people know I'm gay now. I don't really know. I still haven't come out to some people and I really should. And my parents, too.


----------



## surskitty

So I just spent the past few hours off in the land of the Kennedy Center.  It's relevant, I guess.


----------



## Dannichu

Harlequin said:


> I think more people know I'm gay now. I don't really know. I still haven't come out to some people and I really should. And my parents, too.


Hurr, me too. Thing is, I'm perfectly fine with coming out to new people (of which there are many at uni), but it's so, so much harder with people I've known forever. I blame this on my being absolutely terrified of relationships changing. Which some would say is a tad unhealthy.

In other news, I've spent all day watching and trying to figure out what the hell the movie Mulholland Drive is about. I've read explanations where the first half is a dream, the second half's reality; where the entire thing is a dream/flashback of the main character in the moment of her death; where the film's a satire of Hollywood and what the pressures reduce people to; where one of the characters is merely a idealised projection of another character... although I have to admit my favourite 'interpretation' is "it has two hot women having sex, why do you need deeper meaning?".

Like 95% of gay movies, it has a sad ending, but I imagine it'd be one of the best things _ever _to watch while high because it's rather trippy already.


----------



## Harlequin

no sry not falling back to the second page k.

I can agree with the relationships not changing part - that's one thing I hate about change. You never know where you are with some people. :( I need to watch more gay film but I can't find any. :(

In slightly related news, you know "If These Walls Could Talk"? I've been wanting to find it for a while. D: sounds interesting.


----------



## Flazeah

Harlequin said:


> In slightly related news, you know "If These Walls Could Talk"? I've been wanting to find it for a while. D: sounds interesting.



You mean on DVD or just anywhere? And do you mean specifically the first movie, which apparently is about abortion - I haven't watched a lot of it - instead of the second, which is about lesbian couples? The first part of the first movie can be found here, or if you're looking for the second movie, the first part of the 1961 part is here, part one of the 1972 part is here, and the first part of the one with Ellen DeGeneres in it is here.


----------



## Dannichu

I've only seen the second If These Walls Could Talk film, and it's really interesting, looking about the changing attitues and so on; I watched it online years ago, but because two of the parts have sex scenes, it gets taken down/edited a lot. On the other hand, the DVD is really hard to find; I found it by accident in a charity shop sometime last year and was like "...score". I really want to see the first one, too.
I found Saving Face in Bedford's CEX a couple of months ago, too, which was cool. 

I wish gay movies were easier to find; I had a look in the big HMV in London's "Gay Cinema" section (which is tiny and between the porn and anime) and it was mostly adult m/m stuff. The only lesbian movie I found was Loving Annabelle, which I would've bought if it wasn't £20.

That said, the BBC 3-episode adaptation of Sarah Waters' Tipping the Velvet is £5 in HMV (at least, the Canterbury one) at the moment. It's nowhere near as good as the book and a bit weird at times, but it's sweet and has Keely Hawes (who plays Zoe in Spooks) playing one of the main characters which has meant I can't watch her in Spooks without imagining her as a male impersonator, which makes everything a little less serious. X3

Also, I bought (also from HMV) and watched The Hours yesterday, which was a very sad film. It's one of those "gay coded" films where you don't know it deals with gay characters unless you've read about it beforehand - which is really bizzare because all three of the female main characters (it's set around three women in different places/time periods) kisses another woman at some point. Unfortunately one of the women (Virginia Woolf, as played by Nicole Kidman) kisses her sister, which creeped me out a bit.
It was a good film, with really good performances from all concerned, but it's another strike in the "Gay movies that leave you feeling depressed as hell" column.

On that note, have some happy news! Okay, birds going extinct isn't happy as such, but the line "Attempts to breed a rare species of duck to avoid extinction in the UK have backfired after the only two remaining males fell for each other." made me laugh out loud.


----------



## Harlequin

Oh, pfft, we can just extract some sperm! :P Poor ducks. :(

also I'm talking about both oh the films, and I'd like to find them online. I'm broke and don't really want to spend money on lesbian cinema (sry but you're a bit icky ; ; )


----------



## Vladimir Putin's LJ

Harlequin said:


> :( I need to watch more gay film but I can't find any. :(


HI THERE.

Okay, so I don't have very many films with me, but I have these two to offer:
One of the first gay films ever made: Anders als die Andern
 (Different from the Others). Filmed in 1919 (!) as a protest against paragraph 175 of the German Law. It prohibited 'acts against nature' by men. I liked it a lot, and it's sadly topical ninety years later. Sad ending, as was to be expected, but I enjoyed it. Nice cameo by Hirschenfeld.

Beautiful Thing, a recent one this time. I like this one a lot. It's about a two boys from working class families who fall in love with each other, and it has a pretty happy ending for once! It's kind of hard to explain the plot without ruining it too much, but be sure to watch it.

All the other parts of the films can of course be found on the uploaders' accounts.

EDIT: Haha, that gay duck story. Kind of sad that the species is probably doomed but it's pretty cute when these things happen :v


----------



## Harlequin

is the first one in German w/o subtitles

because as erotic as german is

i don't speak it


----------



## Vladimir Putin's LJ

Harlequin said:


> is the first one in German w/o subtitles
> 
> because as erotic as german is
> 
> i don't speak it


german is def. erotic as hell but no it's silent (1919).
the cue-cards and letters and things are in english.


----------



## Dannichu

Wow, the Germans were progressive with their gay moviemaking; they made the first lesbian motion picture, too; Madchen in Uniform. 
Fun fact: they made two endings; one where the lead character accepts that the girl she's in love with can't be with her because of homophobia, etc., and one where she kills herself by throwing herself off a building. Guess which was the only ending they were allowed to show? Yup, lesbians are only allowed in cinema if they kill themselves, apparently.
(the depressing thing is, that was back in 1931, and it's still more or less true today)

I had a look, and can't find either of the ITWCT films online anywhere other than youtube ):

If it makes you feel better, the ducks are only extinct in the UK; I think they're native to NZ, so they're still alive out there, and are presumably hetero enough to keep the species going.


----------



## Harlequin

Lesbians do get happy endings, too. irl i mean. I have an aunt who was born prior to 1955 (she's my father's older sister so it has to be before then) and she's been in a long relationship with her partner.

they're so serious her partner is my aunt! more happiness in cinema plz


----------



## Flazeah

My god, Dannichu and Harlequin, you guys posted those things at weird times. x) You make me feel so lazy, sauntering in here at almost midday.

 Yeah, there are several lesbian films I've watched with really depressing endings. I'd love Lost and Delirious way more if it had a nicer ending, and also, although Loving Annabelle has an alternative ending, even that is pretty vague.


----------



## Minish

I'm still really depressed Milk wasn't released here... >_<

A little off-topic, but for my birthday my mum got me something with rainbow colours, since I have like nothing signifying LGBT. Okay so it's just a phone keyring but it's _something_! And I'm happy my mum did, because slowly but surely she's accepting me. Even if the topic is a bit awkward when we _do_ talk about it and she didn't dare to mention LGBT rights by name ("And it... signifies... what you wanted it to signify.") XD

I really want some rainbow gloves or armwarmers to wear on the day we're doing Day of Silence (we're doing it on the 20th instead like I think I've said, since the 17th is during the holidays and we want to do it during school).


----------



## Flazeah

Aww, it's hilarious when parents are awkward like that. x3 It's really cool that your mum got a a rainbow keyring. :D

 My mum's actually recently made fun of me - in a nice way. I was sitting in a Costa café with her and my older brother, who I'd said she could tell I'm gay but I wasn't sure if she had, and my brother was talking about the fact that there weren't many girls on his uni course, but there were in the year below him, and my mum said that'd be an ideal year for me. x); My brother just laughed.

 I want National Coming Out Day to fall on a Wednesday - which is when I go fencing - next year but I don't think it does. Also I'm not sure if I'm going to do the Day of Silence or not. >.< Maybe I should just wear something rainbowy sometime in those weeks. If I can find anything. I find it surprisingly difficult looking for decent rainbow stuff.


----------



## Minish

Flazeah said:


> My mum's actually recently made fun of me - in a nice way. I was sitting in a Costa café with her and my older brother, who I'd said she could tell I'm gay but I wasn't sure if she had, and my brother was talking about the fact that there weren't many girls on his uni course, but there were in the year below him, and my mum said that'd be an ideal year for me. x); My brother just laughed.


Aww, that's awesome! When parents are okay to joke (in a nice way obviously) about it, it's a really good sign!

I agree that it's really hard to find rainbow stuff... I find it awesome though that when you wear rainbow stuff, usually only an LGBT person sees it as representative of LGBT. It's fun to find people that way! :D


----------



## Harlequin

Flazeah said:


> My god, Dannichu and Harlequin, you guys posted those things at weird times. x) You make me feel so lazy, sauntering in here at almost midday.
> 
> Yeah, there are several lesbian films I've watched with really depressing endings. I'd love Lost and Delirious way more if it had a nicer ending, and also, although Loving Annabelle has an alternative ending, even that is pretty vague.


I hadn't been to bed then :P I only just woke up myself, so don't feel bad!



Cirrus said:


> Aww, that's awesome! When parents are okay to joke (in a nice way obviously) about it, it's a really good sign!
> 
> I agree that it's really hard to find rainbow stuff... I find it awesome though that when you wear rainbow stuff, usually only an LGBT person sees it as representative of LGBT. It's fun to find people that way! :D


See, I'd rather they knew and just never, ever mentioned it again. But then, that's my attitude with lots of things. I just don't want to tell them. :( I've told some of my friends but not all, and some people who are more acquaintance than friend know, too, but. :( oh well, c'est la vie.


----------



## octobr

I don't have rainbow stuff but I don't plan on wearing/finding any for DoS. Why need I, I can support in a different way.

I went to a college -- NIU, it was lame -- yesterday and they had big LGBT center posters everywhere. It was pretty cool.


----------



## Dannichu

Same here; if you see me online at any time before about 9am, odds are I haven't been to bed yet X3

Exactly (in relation to Harle's aunts); loads of lesbians are in happy, non-suicidal relationships, but it's so rare that the healthy relationships are allowed to carry over to the big screen. Or, often, the small screen. From what I've heard, Skins pulled off a lesbian relationship extremely well (the BBC rocks in terms of gay representation, though; Mistressess handled a lesbian storyline brilliantly, and their adaptations of Sarah Waters novels have been great), but it's still used as shock!value in the States, where they've recently has a trend of introducing a bisexual woman, let her have some unhealthy relstionships with women, and then pair her off with a man (see House, Grey's Anatomy and The O.C.).

I normally stop watching 3/4 of the way through Lost and Delirious, Loving Annabelle and Kissing Jessica Stein and pretend the girls get a happy ending.

OKAY I'm done compliaining now :)

Hehe, people buy me rainbowy stuff all the time, but I think that's more because I wear bright colours and rainbows generally than any kind of LGBT connotation. But Cirrus is completely right; LGBT people tend to see someone wearing something with rainbows as something LGBT-related, while most straight people (or at least, those without LGBT friends and such) just see it as rainbows. And your mum is so cool for getting you that :D

Milk showed for a couple of nights at our uni cinema, but I was busy both nights (one with an essay, the other with a friend's birthday) so I couldn't go ): I think the DVD'll get a wide relsease (they're selling the soundtrack in HMV), so I'll buy it when it comes out (unintentional puns, hurrah!). 

Yup, I feel terrible for not coming out to my parents while I know they'll be completely fine with it, when there are poor kids everywhere who run the risk of being beaten or kicked out if their parents so much as suspect. I'm fairly sure they know, anyways (my mum's said something to the effect of "I can tell when people are gay" a few times, and she keeps borrowing books from my room when she's run out of stuff to read, and about half my reading material has at least one lesbian character, so she's probably spotted a trend - I hope to god she hasn't read anything by Stella Duffy - especially Wavewalker - because, for a murder mystery book, it has semi-pornographic sex scenes). 
And when my sister and I are talking about our hypothetical futures, she has a habit of saying "when or if you get a boyfriend or girlfriend", which is sweet :3


----------



## Keltena

I... haven't popped in here in a while, have I? I guess I just don't really have much to say about gay films because I never get to see them. Dx But, uh... I have a rainbow tie-dye T-shirt and colored bobby pins I can arrange in a rainbow, sooo that's what I wear on gay holidays~

On the subject of coming out... well, I've managed to hint so heavily about the whole "hey, I'm bi" thing that it's common knowledge, so my parents know.


----------



## octobr

Thought you said booby pins. I lol'd.


----------



## EvilCrazyMonkey

I have this über-awesome wristband from Hot Topic (awesome store) as in this picture:





It's pretty awesome and I wear it when I can.


----------



## octobr

Yesterday the chick at the theater asked my mom if her son was under eleven.

admittedly that means i look like a preteen, but _all the same._



He says, as he starts up the tinkerbell movie...


----------



## Alexi

Verne, I've always wanted to tell you but felt weird saying it, but you look a lot like my friend Patrick. Just thought you'd like to know. *shrug*

And uh...I haven't seen any gay movies, so yeah.

I have a few rainbowy things, mainly an awesome heart-shaped keychain from SanFran, but they aren't really my style.


----------



## Harlequin

I don't own anything rainbow. I don't really feel a need to _~express my specialness~_ through my clothes.


----------



## Dannichu

Well, for those of us with absolutely no gaydar whatsoever, it's sometimes very convenient when not-exactly-straight people give visual (if subtle) identification of their not-exactly-straightness. If nothing else, it can help avert some painfully embarassing conversations.

Plus _I_ think rainbows look cool ;;



> Yesterday the chick at the theater asked my mom if her son was under eleven.
> 
> admittedly that means i look like a preteen, but all the same.


I laughed far too much at this. Sorry. D:


----------



## octobr

It happened again today but

under ten

lol :c


I don't look that much like a little kid do I

I guess I shouldn't complain. :B 


I should fuck with my friend tomorrow and wear a skirt. But she'd probably be all OMG SO PRETTY!!

and also i haven't any

and also i'd rather die.


----------



## Harlequin

but cross-dressing is fun   ; ;


----------



## Dewgong

I guess I should have joined here earlier.

Eeeh... I'm looking for rainbow stuff.

DoS is the 25th, right?


----------



## Dannichu

Not sure about the DoS, but you can normally find loads of rainbowy stuff at markets and hippy-ish shops.

I've been (somewhat obssessively) watching Buffy the Vampire Slayer recently (a decade after everyone else, I know), and I've just reached season 4, where Willow comes out and starts dating Tara and _oh my god_ they're adorable. And have brilliant not-sex scenes (in season 4 they don't kiss, but do very... _intense _magic spells together that aren't subtle at all) because the writers are fantastic at getting around the censors X3


----------



## Dewgong

hmm well i'm going shopping soon before then so :) 

i am on a mission


----------



## Harlequin

Dannichu said:


> Not sure about the DoS, but you can normally find loads of rainbowy stuff at markets and hippy-ish shops.
> 
> I've been (somewhat obssessively) watching Buffy the Vampire Slayer recently (a decade after everyone else, I know), and I've just reached season 4, where Willow comes out and starts dating Tara and _oh my god_ they're adorable. And have brilliant not-sex scenes (in season 4 they don't kiss, but do very... _intense _magic spells together that aren't subtle at all) because the writers are fantastic at getting around the censors X3


I did this at Christmas! I watched all of the Buffy episodes _and _I downloaded some of the comics. <3 Buffy.

also you'll *really* love the last episode of Buffy. it's like _right_ up your alley. (such a powerful, inspiring moment ; ; )


----------



## octobr

April 17 actually.

Considering tie-dying a collared shirt. lol. for. DoS i mean.


----------



## Dannichu

Harlequin said:


> I did this at Christmas! I watched all of the Buffy episodes _and _I downloaded some of the comics. <3 Buffy.
> 
> also you'll *really* love the last episode of Buffy. it's like _right_ up your alley. (such a powerful, inspiring moment ; ; )


Yay and wow~ I'm looking forward to it :)
(except then it'll be over and I'm always so sad when I reach the end of a show I love)



Verne said:


> April 17 actually.
> 
> Considering tie-dying a collared shirt. lol. for. DoS i mean.


You should - and post pictures of it when it's done. Ty-dyed stuff looks really cool; loads of the shirts I wear are ty-dyed, but I've only done it once for cosplay purposes and it turned out surprisingly okay - especially since I used beetroot juice as dye XD


----------



## Harlequin

Dannichu said:


> Yay and wow~ I'm looking forward to it :)
> (except then it'll be over and I'm always so sad when I reach the end of a show I love)
> 
> 
> 
> You should - and post pictures of it when it's done. Ty-dyed stuff looks really cool; loads of the shirts I wear are ty-dyed, but I've only done it once for cosplay purposes and it turned out surprisingly okay - especially since I used beetroot juice as dye XD


It's brilliant. I loved the last episode. It was so sad but at the same time sooooo good. Also. The comics are quite good but a little bit "whacky." You should download them and read them! (note: Buffy is so good it's one of the only things I pay for, but I'm not paying for the comics.)


----------



## Dewgong

Ah, so it is the 17th. That is a friday. :O 

Aaaah western style shirts are my favorite seriously I should tie-dye one :)


----------



## octobr

ahaha danni comma sutra i lold.


I think I might actually be able to convince mom to let me tie-dye it, too -- she's been pretty nice about the whole queer thing lately, actually helped me try to find a shirt that would squish down the girls. Pritty kewl.


----------



## EvilCrazyMonkey

Err, DoS is over spring break for me and I'm at my dad's house then. Definitely don't want to come out to him through wristbands (or in Georgia, for that matter, but). My sister has asked me when we once were arguing about gay marriage, but she seemed to (not quite sure yet) believe my lie. :V such trickery in this household.

Relevant to LGBT stuff: The Rejection is about, well, rejection because the person being asked is gay (sorry about the window resizing; it's the best version I could find). They do seem to capture it quite well. Also the heading the site gives is funny: "boys chasing girls who chase girls who chase boys who chase boys."

And Vlad, thanks for linking to Beautiful Thing. That was a good movie and it was cute. :)


----------



## Dannichu

Not sure if any of the other girls here care about this (or are, indeed, as shallow as me), but afterellen's opened voting for the '09 Hot 100 List.

Ooh, and I just checked and afterelton's opened voting for thier list, too. What fun. I just had a look at who the guys are voting for and find it completely adorable that Obama's up there with people like Luke Macfarlane and Taye Diggs.

(If anyone cares, my list-of-10 was Amber Benson, Alyson Hannigan (told you I'm Buffy-obessed right now), Tina Fey, Idina Menzel, Kristin Chenoweth, Stephanie March, Mia Krishina, Lena Headey, Mia Kirschner, Olivia Wilde and Mariska Hargitay. It's pathetic how long it took me to pick 10 and I'm still undecided on the sub-categories.)


----------



## Keltena

I suppose I can be shallow for a little while... Although I'm not sure how much they'll appreciate my spamming their list with singers I like. xD;

Although I agree on Alyson Hannigan~


----------



## octobr

I would love to contribute (lol usin genitals to worm way into shit I don't belong to, go verne) but... I don't like... know any names. So.


----------



## surskitty

Apparently some of my relatives refuse to acknowledge that one of my cousins exists because she got married (well, got a civil union, but she had a decent-sized ceremony or at least tried for one) to another girl.  However, that one whore is apparently still worth acknowledging.

Fuck New Jersey.


----------



## octobr

Fuck New Jersey up the ass it is so gay. see what i did there


----------



## surskitty

man I think I know how I could get some of my cousins to stop trying to get me to let them mess with my hair and nails endlessly /o/

Unfortunately it'd be a wreck and I don't really ... like anyone like that.  But I am reasonably sure where I fall on the chart.


----------



## Munchkin

Well, how have I never noticed this before?
Anyway, intro - I'm a girl. I'm bi.
And...well, I'll be lurking until I see a topic that really interests me, I suppose.
*joinfishyay*?
=D


----------



## octobr

Hey melodic.


it was really quiet out this morning so mom and i were joking that the world had ended without us. mom started on about something like 'well if the world ended i would hope that we had some hot guys' and that i would have to reproduce because she was too old. I was like, mom, way to be really fucking insensitive.


----------



## Vladimir Putin's LJ

but but manbabies are _awesome_

oh and my mum thinks i have asperger's for some retarded reason but the upside of it is that since autistic people apparently have more masculine brains (???) she's pretty much letting me do whatever with my appearance. which is nice.
now to convince my dad and/or get him to go away for another two years so i can finally cut my damn hair.

also guys check out this sweet new ad. gets shown 8 times per day in california _*yeaaaaah*_
i never understand what the hell people mean by 'taking away OUR FREEDOMS' because which freedoms are being taken away ):

ps: hi melodic :)


----------



## Minish

Vladimir Putin's LJ said:


> oh and my mum thinks i have asperger's for some retarded reason but the upside of it is that since autistic people apparently have more masculine brains (???) she's pretty much letting me do whatever with my appearance. which is nice.
> now to convince my dad and/or get him to go away for another two years so i can finally cut my damn hair.


...because your mum thinks you're autistic and therefore have a more masculine brain you're allowed to do whatever you want with your appearance - which means you can cut your hair? Is having short hair not masculine? o.o


----------



## octobr

Wait, I don't get it... what freedoms are we taking away...



EDIT: oh my god check out this page on their website i LOLLLLLLED http://www.nationformarriage.org/site/c.omL2KeN0LzH/b.4475595/k.566A/Marriage_Talking_Points.htm


----------



## Vladimir Putin's LJ

Cirrus said:


> ...because your mum thinks you're autistic and therefore have a more masculine brain you're allowed to do whatever you want with your appearance - which means you can cut your hair? Is having short hair not masculine? o.o


Um, I don't really follow your question? My father is very much against my doing anything remotely masculine, but my mother is all for it.

That site is terrible. I mean I've only read the first question of their FAQ and it is this:


> A: “Do you really believe people like me who believe mothers and fathers both matter to kids are like bigots and racists? I think that’s pretty offensive, don’t you? Particularly to the 60 percent of African-Americans who oppose same-sex marriage. Marriage as the union of husband and wife isn’t new; it’s not taking away anyone’s rights. It’s common sense.”


_what does this mean_
_what do black people have to do with it_


----------



## octobr

I love how they've got an entire section devoted to absolutely reasonable questions, like 'wait, isn't this like banning interracial marriage.' 


ALSO: the part where they tell you what words to use so you sound nice when you're banning gay marriage


----------



## Harlequin

If black people agree with you it can't be anything _like_ racism!
*because only white people can be racist*


----------



## Flazeah

Aww, it's a real shame about your father, VPLJ. D: At least you'll be eighteen sometime.



Dannichu said:


> Not sure if any of the other girls here care about this (or are, indeed, as shallow as me), but afterellen's opened voting for the '09 Hot 100 List.


 I just put five women I like. I don't tend to watch much TV and tend only to develop an attraction to people I know or learn a significant amount about, but I wanted to make a list anyway. x3 Mine were Rebecca Romero, who is a cyclist who I have no idea whether many people have heard of or not, Lena Headey, Piper Perabo, Cariba Heine and Jill Bennett. I've only ever watched an interview with Jill Bennett in, but she's really cute. :D


----------



## Dewgong

ahaha this totally doesn't belong here but verne your signature is great


----------



## spaekle

Hahahahaha, wow. 




			
				How to spread propaganda for homophobes said:
			
		

> Language to avoid at all costs: "Ban same-sex marriage." Our base loves this wording. So do supporters of SSM. They know it causes us to lose about ten percentage points in polls. Don’t use it. Say we’re against “redefining marriage” or in favor or “marriage as the union of husband and wife” NEVER “banning same-sex marriage.”


lolwut?



> 2. Isn’t the ban on gay marriage like bans on interracial marriage?
> 
> A: “Bans on interracial marriage were about keeping two races apart so that one race could oppress the other. Marriage is about bringing two sexes together, so that children get the love of their own mom and a dad, and women don’t get stuck with the enormous disadvantages of parenting alone.” “Having a parent of two different races is just not the same as being deprived of your mother—or your father.”


Just how the fuck does banning gay marriage put an end to single parenting?



> “If courts rule that same-sex marriage is a civil right, then, people like you and me who believe children need moms and dads will be treated like bigots and racists.”


Because nine times out of then, they _are_...?



> “Love is a great thing. But marriage isn’t just any kind of love; it’s the special love of husband and wife for each other and their children.”


Sorry gays; no matter how much you love your partner, it'll never be as much as Britney loved that one guy for 72 hours.



> 9. What about older or infertile couples? If they marry why not same-sex couples?
> 
> A: “Every man and woman who marries is capable of giving any child they create (or adopt) a mother and a father. No same-sex couple can do this. It’s apples and oranges.”


Way to completely fucking miss the point.

I actually kind of like this tactic.

"You're discriminating again-" "MARRIAGE"

"The supreme court in one case has already declared the concept of 'seperate but equal' un-" "MARRIAGE"

"You know, the people against desegregation of public schools probably thought their cause was pretty noble too-" "MARRIAGE"


Also, those two old people at the top of the page are fucking creepy. It's like that guy's staring into my soul.


----------



## Dewgong

^ agree.

oh man those old people are really /really/ scary hahaha


----------



## Flazeah

I love the thing about Britney you said, Spaekle. :D

 Oh look guys, they've changed the banner! To a family of black people. Either they're onto us (>.>) - we may have made them realise just how creepy that guy was - they change it regularly, they've realised just how creepy that guy was on their own or they're attempting to push their "point" about racism.

 ...Oh wait, it changes when you refresh it. Never mind. ;)


----------



## Dewgong

well i'm just now starting my school project... i've figured out most of what i want to say. it's about gay marriage, why it should be legal, why it's not wrong, etc. gay parents adopting, impacts on family, social aspects, all that.

if anybody has anything to say that you think i should add on any of those topics, i need to add some quotation marks to my project. :)


----------



## Dinru

If you don't have something like this already, you could put something like  the fact that certain religions do not support it is not a valid argument. America (or wherever you live) is not a Theocracy. Also, if you have stuff on how it's actually natural, you could put that it's been observed in numerous animals. Gorillas, Zebras, House Cats, Ducks, and Mosses to name a few.

Also, that website scares me. Because people read it. And think that it's _true_. And it's kind of pathetic that they try to throw the blame on black people. "Oh, don't mind us! Look at all of those black people! They don't agree with you, so our argument is valid! Ha!" I do not see the logic there at all.


----------



## spaekle

Dinru said:


> Mosses



:o homosexual moss?

I am very interested/curious. [botany nerd]


----------



## octobr

Dewgong said:


> well i'm just now starting my school project... i've figured out most of what i want to say. it's about gay marriage, why it should be legal, why it's not wrong, etc. gay parents adopting, impacts on family, social aspects, all that.
> 
> if anybody has anything to say that you think i should add on any of those topics, i need to add some quotation marks to my project. :)


Here's your quote for you:

One day I'm planning on getting married. Way things are going, I probably won't be able to. Cause in the eyes of the law, I would be a woman marrying a woman. Even though it'd be love. Even though it'd be innocent. Even though it'd be something we'd expect to have the right to do, just as our parents did and our siblings did and our friends did, we wouldn't be allowed because, bluntly, it's against the law. 

So me, I've sort of given up. And that you've got kids giving up on love because the law tells them to, that's the sad thing.






RELEVANTLY: gaycons I stole from places. didn't make a one of 'em.


----------



## Harlequin

If anyone's interested: http://eggandsperm.blogspot.com/2006/10/stem-cell-article-taken-down.html and http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencet...s-discover-turn-womens-bone-marrow-sperm.html

They're interesting. Thoughts?


----------



## Dewgong

pretty icons verne. i might take one for somethin' else.

hmm... i will use your quote. it might make people think twice...


----------



## Dannichu

The DM article said:
			
		

> An update of Britain's ageing fertility laws is going through Parliament and is likely to allow the use of artificial sperm and eggs in IVF treatment - but only for heterosexual couples.


But why? Why deny that kind of technological breakthrough to the groups of people who'd want it most?
Also, the comments on there range from hilariously ignorant to downright bigoted.


----------



## Harlequin

Dannichu said:


> But why? Why deny that kind of technological breakthrough to the groups of people who'd want it most?
> Also, the comments on there range from hilariously ignorant to downright bigoted.


Yeah, but I reckon with enough campaigning we could totally get that part wiped out. I mean, it'll be a while before this technology is readily available, and if we're lucky it'll be around the time we want and are in a position to have children.

so.


----------



## Minish

*nicks some of verne's icons* :D


----------



## octobr

8) 
oddly enough i stole them from a flippin harry potter forum

THE LAAAAAAME


Anywho. 

I'm sitting here in a tie-dyed collared shirt with a card tacked to my pocket and having actually a pretty good day. Though mom kept asking me this morning if it meant she could boss me around, I gave her that look that teenagers can do, you know the one.


----------



## Minish

Argh, I really wanted to do a big thing today but it's the school holidays so there was no point. :/ Plus I went in for revision sessions all day and I reeeally need to speak to my teachers on revision sessions.

Although me and my friend are doing it at school on Thursday, so. :) Our own DoS~

Was anyone else silent today?


----------



## Harlequin

No, I wasn't silent today.


----------



## Tsukuyomi

Sireafi said:


> So anyway. Let's start gaying.


I lol'd. Anywho, I'd like to sign up please. ^_^


----------



## Keltena

Being silent. Does that mean I shouldn't be communicating here? o.o;


----------



## spaekle

I had a short moment of silence to myself, but I don't think there was any way I could have gone a school day without talking. :( I'll have to participate someday.

Hey hey, Tsukuyomi!


----------



## octobr

DOES THIS MAKE NOISE I THINK NOT

I went the whole day, sans a few in-class necessities.


----------



## Dewgong

hello, tsukuyomi.

i went the entire day as well, until i got home... then i talked because i wasn't at school anymore. i handed out the little index cards (which i made very pretty with my rainbow markers) to all the teachers. my art teacher tried to get to me talk, she kept calling on me and stuff, and she almost sent me down to the office for not talking, which would have happened if i didn't have other students vouching for me. 

i got ridiculed a whole bunch more than usual, too. but that's okay, i was still silent.


----------



## octobr

My friends sorta treated it like a game -- if I said 'mmhm' or coughed or anything, they were like OMGGGG U TOKKED but you know what I don't care. :3

My friend made me smile cause she dug in her backpack and pulled out her own card. It was very cool.


----------



## Dewgong

a couple kids started doing it just because everyone else was because they thought it was 'the silent game' or something

which kinda takes away the whole meaning of it :(


----------



## octobr

check out the swag







among others


Totally shitty message, but lol.


----------



## Harlequin

gave blood today even though gays aren't allowed. someone in my chemistry class answered the gay sex question truthfully (yes) and still donated but that's pointless because they're just going to throw away the blood.

:(


----------



## Dannichu

Heehee @ Verne's shirt X3

Stonewall and other organizations are trying to overturn the NBS's prejudicial stance on gay men giving blood, though I don't know how long it'll be; the last time I went to donate, they had leaflets about why they don't want to take blood from "higher risk groups" - including gay men :/

Also in the "blarg" category, I had a conversation with my sister and two best friends the other day and it wasn't good. One mentioned that he was surprised that I'd gone to uni and didn't have a gay best friend (something all liberal females are supposed to have, apparently), and I said that I did; my best uni friend was a lesbian. 
All three of them have met my friend (and liked her), but they all reacted like it was a really massive deal, about how they had "absolutely no idea!" (like it's something you're supposed to say when you're introduced to someone - "I'm X, and just so you know, I'm gay!") and it was really clear that, even though they didn't judge or like her any less, they'd probably always think of her as "Danielle's _lesbian_ friend". 

And I feel awful, because I thought that was how they'd react if I came out to them, only now I _know _and aaargh. )<


----------



## Harlequin

Dannichu said:


> Stonewall and other organizations are trying to overturn the NBS's prejudicial stance on gay men giving blood, though I don't know how long it'll be; the last time I went to donate, they had leaflets about why they don't want to take blood from "higher risk groups" - including gay men :/


Yeah, my blood was taken by the WBS (Welsh Blood Society) but they have the exact same views. I don't get it either, because blacks (who are statiscally at higher risk of HIV infection, especially inner city blacks) are allowed to donate.



> Also in the "blarg" category, I had a conversation with my sister and two best friends the other day and it wasn't good. One mentioned that he was surprised that I'd gone to uni and didn't have a gay best friend (something all liberal females are supposed to have, apparently), and I said that I did; my best uni friend was a lesbian.
> All three of them have met my friend (and liked her), but they all reacted like it was a really massive deal, about how they had "absolutely no idea!" (like it's something you're supposed to say when you're introduced to someone - "I'm X, and just so you know, I'm gay!") and it was really clear that, even though they didn't judge or like her any less, they'd probably always think of her as "Danielle's _lesbian_ friend".
> 
> And I feel awful, because I thought that was how they'd react if I came out to them, only now I _know _and aaargh. )<


:( Yeah I know what you mean. That's my biggest worry - being relegated to "x's gay friend" or "the gay one." It's not that bad though because I know my coming out changed some of my friends' views. I friend of mine would have said "gays shouldn't be able to donate blood" before I came out (and in fact did say that) but when I was talking to him earlier he said it was unfair.

So don't despair!


----------



## octobr

People are so ~magical~

man i hate hiding in the closet cause i feel fairly forced to keep it a secret that not only am i a guy but guess what i like the wimmenfolk

gah.


----------



## Zhorken

Dannichu said:


> but they all reacted like it was a really massive deal, about how they had "absolutely no idea!" (like it's something you're supposed to say when you're introduced to someone - "I'm X, and just so you know, I'm gay!") and it was really clear that, even though they didn't judge or like her any less, they'd probably always think of her as "Danielle's _lesbian_ friend".
> 
> And I feel awful, because I thought that was how they'd react if I came out to them, only now I _know _and aaargh. )<


Yeah, I get this too and it bothers the hell out of me when it's not happening.  (Oddly enough, though, the moment I *do* mention offhand that I like boys, the fact that people react so strongly becomes absolutely hilarious to me.)

EDIT: Side note, it actually comes off as just a bit creepy to me when people talk about gays "getting better" or whatever, even when they're just naive and honestly believe that they're being comforting with "I know they can improve!".  Anyone else find this?  :(


----------



## Dannichu

I haven't come across anyone IRL (who I take seriously - 12-year-old chavs don't count) who actually thinks that gays can be cured or whatever, and for that I'm extremely grateful. 

Also, anyone who likes Stephen Fry, even the littlest bit, should read this. Very sweet :)


----------



## Vladimir Putin's LJ

Dannichu said:


> Also, anyone who likes Stephen Fry, even the littlest bit, should read this. Very sweet :)


That's the cutest thing. I really need to read Moab is my Washpot ugggh IT'S SITTING ON MY SHELF RIGHT NOW but i have to finish The Prince and the Communist Manifesto and Mein Kampf and Lolita first ):

I'm pretty sure you've all read this already but it's always good for a chuckle.

Also I missed out on a perfectly good opportunity to come out to my mum yeaaaahh

Also also gonna be buying a bunch of shirts from a site and was thinking of including this one in the bulk. Probably will.


----------



## octobr

I wore my recruiter shirt yesterday. The interesting thing happened today.

I'm walking to gym and one of my classmates says 'hey Sarah.' Shocking in itself, I didn't even know she knew my name. 

But she goes, 'hey sarah, I saw that shirt yesterday, and I was wondering, are you a lesbian?'

I mean, jeeze, I didn't know anyone in my town understood it, let alone was so polite about it. She was just really nice about it, I was more shocked by that than the question. 

So. Yeah. Pretty neat. (btw, I sorta just shrugged and went 'would it make a difference?')


----------



## Harlequin

maybe she's a lesbian and wants to suck your cunt

idk it could happen


----------



## Dinru

Homophobia- the worst disease

I'd say this video's pretty awesome. Remember kids, wash your hands and cover your mouth and nose when you sneeze to avoid spreading the swine flu Homophobia disease~

And Verne it is absolutely _awesome_ that she was so polite about it~


----------



## octobr

HEY HEY SURVAY

Please answer with complete sentences and explanations, and note that I may use you in an essay.

Or, if you're someone I like, I'll just use you and then dump you in the alley after, but only after stealing your underwear.

1. Name I can cite. can be just a first name. but.
2. State/city/country/area on planet earth choose one.
3. LGBTQA 'status' -- that is to say, which letter are you. (a being ally.)
4. Do you feel your school is LGBT safe? Why/Why not?
5. Do you get taunted/bullied/etc at school for being LGBTQA? How so? i.e., physically, verbally... examples very much welcomed. I need stuff.
6. Do you ever see anyone else get taunted for being queer?
7. Why do you think people bully LGBT kids?
8. Have you ever considered skipping/dropping out of school due to anti-gay bullying?
9. How do you think anti-LGBT bullying can be stopped?
10. and leave any notes you have about anti-gay bullying in school here


----------



## Dewgong

1. use dew.

2. washington, inland northwest.

3. b. bisexual.

4. not at all. everyone is extremely rude about, i've lost many friends over it. i'm pretty open about it, in a polite way, and people just think it's disgusting. it makes me very sad. the other day, i got a note from two of my friends that i had gotten pretty close to. it read: "dear dew, we can't be your friend anymore. please don't ask why. sorry." it helps that it was right after i told them about my sexuality.

5. i do. i get called a faggot almost every day. it doesn't get to me much, but i would really like it to stop. some girls are afraid to be near me because they think i'm going to start coming onto them, which is not the case. i've gotten notes, (see question four), text messages, and even a few calls telling me how sick and wrong i am. i've been told by christian classmates that i'm going to hell for this. i tell them i can't help it. i've had a girlfriends, and the ridiculing we received was just awful. it was eventually the end of the relationship because we couldn't take how bad it was anymore.

6. yeah. a couple friends of mine now "changed" to be straight because of it.

7. because it's "wrong". because it goes against the bible. (which it doesn't actually say much about that, and i could get into that, but it's a whole other story). because women are made to be with a man, biological stuff, the way the human body was made, etc. crap in other words.

8. i skipped a couple days because i didn't want to put up with it. i regret it now.

9. i honestly have no clue, and i knew a way, i would certainly hope it stopped.

10. no notes, other than it all needs to stop, and everybody needs to be treated with respect for who they are, and everybody should get the same rights as the person next to them.

thank you.


----------



## Vladimir Putin's LJ

1. Anthony.

2. Brussels, Belgium.

3. Er, GT? I love men but... in a gay way?

4. I think it's relatively liberal on that front. Some guys at my school are gay and I've never seen anyone insult them or anything. The country itself has legalized eveything for gay people and I'm pretty sure that helps, but there are tons of retarded kids because, well, they're kids. They'll hopefully grow out of petty bullying.

5. Never really gotten assaulted but probably because I'm deeper in the closet than fucking Liberace. Kind of hard to pass as male with a girl's hairstyle and (more importantly) tits.

6. No. There's your usual 'gay' comments and a pretty strong homophobic undercurrent with some of the guys but they've never directly bullied the gay people at school as far as I know.

7. Fear. Of course, religion might be part of it, but most homophobic bullying is done by either boys who perceive homosexual men as a sort of threat to their masculinity or girls who think lesbians and bisexuals are total whores. You know how people always prefer it when gays are very flamboyant: all you'll hear then is 'oh, I love gay people!'. But if they want to get married or pursue anything other than fleeting relationships they become sexual beings, and we wouldn't want the big bad sexually active, capable-of-a-relationship faggot around our kids, would we?
There's also denial. I think the hypothesis that everyone is inherently at least partly bisexual probably holds some truth, or at least I think it's plausible that there are a lot more bisexuals in the world than they're letting on, and discrimination can come about as a direct result of self-loathing at feeling sexually attracted to someone of the same gender.
I'm not sure though, it's hard to explain. Lots of people seem to feel threatened by gays the minute they stop being the stereotyped 'platinum-blond-manorexic-dances-solely-to-disco-wears-dresses-pops-amyl-all-night' kind of gay. Not that there's anything wrong with those (on the contrary) but it's mostly a phase that lasts from teenage years to mid-to-late twenties. Everyone settles down after their twenties. Well, drag queens can make a career out of their shows and then they just keep on truckin' but that's a different story (an awesome one).
lala not going anywhere with this moving on:

8. I have skipped school before, but not because of LGBT-related bullying.

9. I know it can't be stopped completely (like racism) but it can be discouraged with acceptance talks or just talks on the subject in some class at school. Not biased talks, purely objective ones. Teachers being out is a pretty good one as well, since the kids'll see that hey, gays aren't different from you 'n me after all!
Also helps when there _aren't_ annoying Uncle Toms in the mainstream media who despite being gay and out are apparently self-loathing on some level and believe they shouldn't have the right to marry (wha the christ, elton. weirdo).
And of course: more positive portrayals of gays in entertainment please, we all know they're working behind the scenes so bring them out into the spotlight already.

10. pro-gay bullying rules


----------



## octobr

You guys rock, this is really helpful.


----------



## Vladimir Putin's LJ

Oh yeah, forgot to mention this (might be relevant): a good number of teachers in my school are pretty obviously gay and there's even a married couple but I've never heard of any of them ever getting intimidated or having their cars keyed or anything.


----------



## Dewgong

you're welcome uncle verne. :>


----------



## Keltena

1. Melanie
2. New York
3. Bisexual
4. Definitely; everyone's really accepting. If anyone's called gay, no one really means it seriously or in a mean way; they're just being idiots.
5. No, not at all. No one even bats an eye when I tell them.
6. No; I've seen people called 'gay', but neither they nor the people calling them that seemed to be taking it seriously.
7. I guess... because they never really take the time to think about how little it actually matters what someone's sexual orientation is. "Oh, you're different in some way... that means you're weird. Looks like an excuse to pick on someone." That's what it's like with all the bullying I've seen about the matter, anyway; I don't live in an area with a lot of that stuff though.
8. Nope.
9. I... really don't know. I think you have to stand up to it, and I think you have to get across the message that people are the same no matter what their sexual orientation is, and honestly it doesn't really make a difference to anything at all anyway?
10. Mm. Not much of that going on that I see. Maybe I'm just blind.

Hope that helped?


----------



## octobr

Thanks people :B

I will still welcome more~


----------



## Departure Song

Verne said:


> HEY HEY SURVAY
> 
> Please answer with complete sentences and explanations, and note that I may use you in an essay.
> 
> Or, if you're someone I like, I'll just use you and then dump you in the alley after, but only after stealing your underwear.
> 
> 1. Name I can cite. can be just a first name. but.
> 2. State/city/country/area on planet earth choose one.
> 3. LGBTQA 'status' -- that is to say, which letter are you. (a being ally.)
> 4. Do you feel your school is LGBT safe? Why/Why not?
> 5. Do you get taunted/bullied/etc at school for being LGBTQA? How so? i.e., physically, verbally... examples very much welcomed. I need stuff.
> 6. Do you ever see anyone else get taunted for being queer?
> 7. Why do you think people bully LGBT kids?
> 8. Have you ever considered skipping/dropping out of school due to anti-gay bullying?
> 9. How do you think anti-LGBT bullying can be stopped?
> 10. and leave any notes you have about anti-gay bullying in school here


1. You know my first and last name already. Feel free to use it.
2. Minnesota, USA
3. I consider myself B, but lean heavily towards G.
4. I like to think it is, especially when I hear horror stories about what happens to people in other schools. We have a Gay-Straight Alliance and the amount of bullying is minimal, although it still (unfortunately) exists and is quite serious for some members.
5. I am called "faggot" constantly, to the point where I've learned to mentally block the word any time I hear it. That's about it, though.
6. I know lots of people that do. Two of my friends identify as lesbians, and every time I talk to them in the hall people call them "dyke." One gay student that sits at the same lunch table as myself has food thrown at him occasionally. Once, he was forced to go home and change because his clothes were full of mashed potatoes. Not a pretty sight at all.
7. Because everyone else does, I guess. I wish I knew the real answer to this question.
8. No; it's never gotten quite that bad. I do know some people who skip classes because they are afraid of harassment, though. One of my female friends has English for her third period but always comes to my History class instead. She says the amount of harassment she receives is far beyond her tolerance level. She also claims the school administration does nothing about it, which I believe entirely.
9. Anti-bullying laws definitely need to include sexual orientation alongside the already established age, race, gender, etc. Teachers also need to be trained to detect LGBT harassment and take action against it. You can't just pass laws and tell teachers to take action against harassment if they don't know how to.
10. Sometimes the insults can get quite annoying, but I've learned to just embrace my sexual orientation and not let trivial remarks get to me. It's not like I have any other choice, is there?


----------



## Dannichu

Since you mention high school, I'll do this for my old school, rather than uni. I could do another one for people at uni, too, if you'd like, but if this is just a high-school thing, then yeah.

1. Danni
2. SW England
3. L
4. No, not really. Nobody was actually out, so it's hard to say, but those suspected of being gay were given a hard time, so I can very easily imagine that anyone (particularly G/B males) who did come out would be physically harassed for it.
5. I wasn't technically out, but got called a lesbian (as a derogatry term) quite a few times because I didn't date anyone and was close to my female friends.
6. Like I said, nobody was out (I'm serious, in a school of 1000+), so it's hard to say. "Gay" as an insult was thrown around quite a bit, and only a handful of the teachers would call someone out on it if they did so.
7. My school was a religious one (joint Catholic and C of E), but I honestly don't think that religious intolerance had much, if anything, to do with why kids acted in a homophobic way. From my experience, I think it's because people don't know any gay people, so they see any and all LGBT people as "different" and are scared of them. The South-West of the UK is a cultural void, where pretty much everybody is white and straight. Most of the adults I've met are pretty LBGT-friendly, but most kids have never even seen a gay person (outside of the handful of stereotypical/badly written ones on TV), so they react weirdly when they do.
8. No; I got bullied for a few things (in the lower school, at least), but didn't let it bother me too much.
9. Lots of education. Again, I went to a church school, but I don't think it's too different in the state, grammar and private schools; homosexuality, bisexuality and transexuality just aren't talked about. If children are told that, yes, gay people exist and, yes, they're people too, I really think they'll be less inclined to become homophobic themselves. I think that more positive representations of gay people in the media, particularly in children's media (Disney having a same-sex romantic couple would be the best thing ever, but I'd settle for having books like And Tango Makes Three or Annie On My Mind availiable in school libraries - even if some parents protested) would go a very long way in changing attitudes. 
10. ~

Well, that was fun :)

Also! Did anyone else read how Carol-Ann Duffy's the first female and first gay (and first female-gay!) poet laureate? Yeah, yeah, "pick the best person for the job, not the gay/female/racial minority just to fill a quota/look 'cool'", but given that she was nominated for it last time, but didn't get it because Tony Blair had concerns regarding her "personal life" (ie. lesbianism), the fact she can be it now, a few years later (presumeably meaning lesbianism's less of a big deal), is super-cool.


----------



## surskitty

I think I answered in #tcod already but.

1. Name I can cite. can be just a first name. but.  _Name?  Er.  I don't even know okay.  Make something up or use my actual first name or something D: I think you know it?_
2. State/city/country/area on planet earth choose one. _Washington, DC?  Generic DC/Baltimore suburb in Maryland?  Somewhere in the DC Metro area, anyway._
3. LGBTQA 'status' -- that is to say, which letter are you. (a being ally.) _Yeah I answered this.  Or Zhorken answered it for me.  One of the two.  95% UNINTERESTED_
4. Do you feel your school is LGBT safe? Why/Why not? _I don't know of anyone who'd actually do anything, but there're a few people that would complain.  Mainly, though, there's an aura of "we should care ... why?" to pretty much everything.  It's pretty safe, I guess, yeah?_
5. Do you get taunted/bullied/etc at school for being LGBTQA? How so? i.e., physically, verbally... examples very much welcomed. I need stuff. _I am in a closet of some form but it's invisible.  Also sparkling.  So yeah.  I think someone's taunted me for a complete lack of desire for a relationship before but mostly it's "... whatever dude."_
6. Do you ever see anyone else get taunted for being queer? _A few times, but the guy taunting people is a jerk anyway.  I met him when he threw his carton of rotten milk at me because I was making comments about the mother of one of my friends and apparently he thought I was talking to him or something.  I mean dude what._
7. Why do you think people bully LGBT kids? _It's "cool", they're different, they're stuck at the mental age of an eight-year-old boy calling everything "gay"...._
8. Have you ever considered skipping/dropping out of school due to anti-gay bullying? _Nah.  No point._
9. How do you think anti-LGBT bullying can be stopped? _Punch people in the face?  Ignore them?  Shun people who do it and get other people to do the same?_
10. and leave any notes you have about anti-gay bullying in school here _Why would someone bother?  I mean, really.  It's not like it has anything to do with them._


----------



## spaekle

1. Oliver
2. West Virginia
3. G, T, and a bit of Q too 
4. Eeeeh. We're not exactly in the most liberal state. There are a couple of openly gay people, including a close friend of mine, and I don't hear much about them getting bullied; but there does appear to be a lot of "hurhurhur lol that's gay dude" particularly among freshmen.
5. I'm not really out-out, so I'm not sure if I can answer this very well. There's a few friends who don't really take me seriously, and that's about it.
6. There's a male cheerleader at my school who's gay; people made jokes after the pep rally, but I don't think anyone really cares any more.
7. For the same reasons anyone makes fun of anyone, which usually end up being _to impress their friends_. Sometimes it's a bit of insecurity about their own sexuality too. :V 
8. No, not really, because I haven't really encountered it.
9. Society as a whole just needs to move past it. In a few decades making fun of gay people will probably be as unacceptable as making fun of someone for being black.


----------



## Gardevoir Girl

Eh, why not.

1. Ari
2. Australia
3. Lesbian
4. Definitely not. I receive a lot of strange looks simply for having short hair, and I've already heard people there talking about homosexuals in a degrading way. (BTW, I've only been at that school for one flipping day.)
5. No one knows yet.
6. I saw someone being taunted for being straight and knowing someone who's gay.
7. IMO, they hate anyone who's different than what they see to be 'normal'.
8. I'm already considering it and I just started today, and I haven't even been directly taunted yet.
9. I have no idea. Aside from tossing everyone who says/does anything homophobic into detention. Which would probably end up with most of the school being in detention.
10. Whatever happened to acceptance and diversity? Most people have gotten past racism, so why the hell can't they get past homophobia too?

As a side note, I came out to my aunt today. Actually, she hacked my Facebook and found out, but anyway.


----------



## Harlequin

*1. Name I can cite. can be just a first name. but.
*JORGE GONZALEZ ESPINOZA! no you can call me Ewan
* 2. State/city/country/area on planet earth choose one.
*Wales
* 3. LGBTQA 'status' -- that is to say, which letter are you. (a being ally.)
*Fag
* 4. Do you feel your school is LGBT safe? Why/Why not?
*My school wasn't the best but it was fine and college is like ... well there are fags everywhere
*5. Do you get taunted/bullied/etc at school for being LGBTQA? How so? i.e., physically, verbally... examples very much welcomed. I need stuff.
*No but then again I'm not out.
*6. Do you ever see anyone else get taunted for being queer?
*Not really. There's one guy who _is_ gay and nobody likes him but that's not because he's gay, it's because he's weird.
*7. Why do you think people bully LGBT kids?
*Ignorance, religious influences
*8. Have you ever considered skipping/dropping out of school due to anti-gay bullying?
*No, never.
* 9. How do you think anti-LGBT bullying can be stopped?
*Education. Lots of it! Swing society toward thinking it's bad!
*10. and leave any notes you have about anti-gay bullying in school here
*um rainbows are gay


----------



## Vladimir Putin's LJ

Thought this was pretty interesting.


----------



## Jolty

am I late for the survey :(

1. Becca
2. England
3. B
4. As far as I am aware, yes. Loads of people in my year group are bi and there's one gay guy and nobody gives us any trouble for it
5. I used to when I was younger. In the PE changing rooms girls would just come and touch me and run off giggling because yeah that's hilarious. Also one girl once said "I bet your mum knew you were going to be bisexual and then dumped you at birth" (I live with my dad)
6. Not around here, no
7. Because it's gross ew ew ewwwwwww and UNNATURAL EWWWW (ie stupid reasons they can't justify)
8. Used to. I couldn't drop out of school back then though but I did skip a few times...
9. Teaching kids from an early age that there is /nothing wrong with it/?
10. Even though I came out accidentally, I regretted it so much because I got tons of crap off people for three years...


----------



## EvilCrazyMonkey

1. Name I can cite. can be just a first name. but.
Umm, I don't care. Use something generic like Bob or George. (real name is cam though)
2. State/city/country/area on planet earth choose one.
South Carolina. (very red state)
3. LGBTQA 'status' -- that is to say, which letter are you. (a being ally.)
Gay.
4. Do you feel your school is LGBT safe? Why/Why not?
No. The people (particularly freshman, less sophomores and juniors and relatively few seniors) who bully LGBTs don't really get much of a chance, and though they avoid LGBTs for being LGBTs, they can sure as hell throw around a "that _faggot_" or "that's fucking disgusting."
5. Do you get taunted/bullied/etc at school for being LGBTQA? How so? i.e., physically, verbally... examples very much welcomed. I need stuff.
I've had various encounters with people who've been like "that person is such a faggot" as an insult (though said person is not gay) and I've had people for a whole lunch period sit behind me and yell faggot at the top of their lungs. 
6. Do you ever see anyone else get taunted for being queer?
In seventh grade (although it took place in a different school there were the same people – these schools are freaking small and there is no choice of where to go) this person used gay as an insult to one of my bisexual friends and said friend said something along the lines of "I know I'm gay; I don't need you to tell me." The homophobe proceeded to show extreme disgust and said "that's fucking disgusting." There was a lesbian couple at my school who I'm friends with, and they were constantly taunted and tormented by various people when they do no more than hold hands or flirt. 
7. Why do you think people bully LGBT kids?
Religious intolerance (this is the south we're talking about), the fact the bullies are in high school and must be "cool" by insulting gays, et cetera.
8. Have you ever considered skipping/dropping out of school due to anti-gay bullying?
No. The people avoid me enough so that nothing horrible happens.
9. How do you think anti-LGBT bullying can be stopped?
Sexual orientation needs to be added to the discrimination laws. Teachers need to not be so condoning of slurs like "homo" and "fag(got)." They also need to stop being discriminant themselves.
10. and leave any notes you have about anti-gay bullying in school here
Well in Spanish when the teacher was explaining that adjectives are changed depending on the gender and number of what is being described, she noted that you have to be careful to use the correct form on oneself. ("else you'll be doing gay, and we don't want that," she said.) She's a cool teacher, and she probably didn't even know what that meant, but still. Also my algebra teacher has been known to crack some subtle gay jokes from time to time. Overall really if most people were aware of the things they said a lot would be different. Like how most people say retarded (I did too, until I took a moment to think about it) when that really is also a slur.


----------



## Bluberry Bat

Oh gods why didn't I see this club before what the hell.
I would like to join please~ :< T-CoD has been one of the only places I've been adequately comfortable in saying anything. I know I'm BUNCHES late but I'll do that survey too call it my HAY IMMA NUB post~


1. Sable
2. Hippyville, New York [Very Liberal, maybe even the most Liberal state - But I'll note that as a whole being a part of the US makes me uncomfortable and I'm moving away as soon as I'm able]
3. T, and B

4. I have to answer most school questions thinking hypothetically, as I've been out of schooling for a long while now, mostly due to the issues I've been having.
My Middle and would-be High-Schools; Absolutely not. But what can be expected, it's a bunch of teens who use Fuck as a comma and Fag / Faggot / Homo as the chief insult. It's pretty typical, and they weren't near mature enough to process someone of difference viewpoints. However, I've always been very introverted and never came into any conflict over it.
My University, although at first I was scared in the same way, I later changed my mind about given there's a very open LGBTQ group there that I was unaware of. (I wish I was, as I may have not freaked out and flunked most of my classes) As far as I knew, the kids were conservative and wouldn't accept me - a teacher I told even said it's best to keep it under wraps. And there's ignorant idiots too, who would do crap like scribble on or tear down the LGBT group posters and flyers - but as a whole I think it's very safe. Even if there were a tiff, someone would be around on your side.

5. I was never open about my actual issues, but I've always been teased. Called a fag, homo, see above a bunch. I was obviously NOT manly, and I would toe the line of masculine / feminine dress. I'm fairly sure I was assumed as gay, though. I was once physically harassed on the bus - but it was a mixture of things such as being in a lower grade, in a crappy class, along with being "A pussy".
In University however, never. And at this point I was sure of my identity and dressing in very feminine manners. (Still within the androgynous line, but getting there. Girl's shirts, shoes, hats.. Most I got was "Nice shoes" as they're a bright purple~ )

6. I've seen all sorts of name calling, bullying, and the like - but I've never even gotten close to any of it to see what it actually was. I don't doubt in the lower grades, that some of it would have probably been due to someone's alignment.

7. Because they're thick, ignorant morons. Whether brainwashed by their thick, ignorant moron parents or just finding themselves as such and needing removal from the gene pool ASAP.
In all seriousness, it's a combination of sheer intolerance - mostly from religion.

8. I'm currently not in a school setting and haven't been in a long while, my University run I failed 3/4 classes due to worrying so much. However, I was never bullied directly, it was my own fears getting the better of me.

9. People need to step up. Lawmakers need to make discrimination against us as unlawful as racism, People of power (Whether it be parents, teachers, or what have you) Need to not accept it either. And we need a larger public voice that it's NOT wrong - one that overrides the ones who says it is.

10. I guess I have nothing more to add about anti-gay bullying.. But for the love of crap, give us gender-neutral washrooms! If you have to go, you have to go. But when they're split you're hard pressed to choose one being Trans. I often go into the men's room just because I can't handle confrontation at the moment, and I'm not fond of being yelled at or assumed a peeping tom or paedophile when I use the woman's room and someone realises..


----------



## Wyvern

o.o I never knew this was here! I'm so joining ^_^

1. Name I can cite. can be just a first name.

Jaden

2. State/city/country/area on planet earth choose one.

Australia

3. LGBTQA 'status' -- that is to say, which letter are you. (a being ally.)

B, I'm bisexual

4. Do you feel your school is LGBT safe? Why/Why not?

Yes, there are quite a lot of us actually

5. Do you get taunted/bullied/etc at school for being LGBTQA? How so? i.e., physically, verbally... examples very much welcomed. I need stuff.

I never used to while I was at school. Even after graduating I have no troubles

6. Do you ever see anyone else get taunted for being queer?

Only on the internet, but never in real life situations, although my friend's mum's friend's brother got beaten pretty badly over it and he's like 40 something I think O.o

7. Why do you think people bully LGBT kids?

Same reason they bully other kids, to give the bully a sense of being bigger than someone and to raise their low self-esteem. The victim being LGBT just defines a target for them

8. Have you ever considered skipping/dropping out of school due to anti-gay bullying?

Not at all, since it never happened to me. If I was bullied however, I'd just get the bastards in trouble >=P

9. How do you think anti-LGBT bullying can be stopped?

Basically I never got bullied because I only let it out to my friends. If someone bullies you on the internet, they're not going to do anything to you so just ignore it. If it happens in real life, talk to your parents if they support your sexual standings about how you can resolve it. If your parents don't support you in that regard (and I know a lot of them don't), seek help from one of your closest friends or another family member.

10. and leave any notes you have about anti-gay bullying in school here

Be nice to nerds, they may end up being your boss
Be nice to gays, they may end up dating your friend :P


----------



## octobr

My essay is done you guys 83


Also I go to prom today and I am going to look _sharp_


----------



## Dewgong

^ want pictures when you get back.


----------



## octobr

hey hey you you


----------



## Alexi

Verne you're amazing <3


----------



## octobr

Hoho.

_hey bby._


----------



## Keltena

You look _awesome._ That is a great outfit~


----------



## Dannichu

Third'd on the massive appreciation of Verne's getup :3

If anyone's bored and needs something to read, I reccommend this. I'm all anti-traditional marriage at the moment. :)


----------



## Dewgong

yes uncle verne.

you are amazing.


----------



## Harlequin

things verne needs to understand:

he looks like a guy

also white suit was a no no, man :(


----------



## octobr

it was a yes yes, faggot


----------



## Harlequin

:( it didn't look bad but you'd have looked snazzier in a black suit. white suits are for black men :( or arabs, and possibly asians, but not for whites. :(


----------



## Munchkin

Well, I'm off-topic, but I haven't been here in a while, so!

Anyways, there's a girl in one of my classes that I like. She's really pretty, she's smart, and she's tons of fun. But she's also straight.
Well, you know how people are - a kiss on the cheek they'll usually take, from almost any friend. So I get to kiss her on the cheek all the time.

But today, I almost got to kiss her lips! I was just a little off, but that may be because we were walking down a flight of stairs and she's taller than me.

I'm the only girl that she allows to hold her around the waist and all that~
=D


----------



## Dinru

@Melodic Harmony: Fwee~ Horray for you! Good luck ^^

@Verne: Joining the Verne-admirers group~ :D You look awesome in that suit ^^ I'm likin' the blue on you~ PS Harlequin white guys can totally wear white suits :/


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## octobr

Almost every white guy there was wearing white. It was weird.


----------



## Harlequin

This is upsetting. :( what ever happened to the classical black number?

I am sad now :(


----------



## Bluberry Bat

Black is so boring, anyway. :<
Verne, you look downright _Snazzy_~ <3



So on another note.. I saw my therapist today and found out I get to start Hormone Treatments in 9 days!~ :> I have no idea if it's any big deal to anyone anywhere ever but it feels like it's been forever and somethings finally happening and fweeeeeeeestuffs~ It's also almost assuredly covered by insurance unlike what my parents kept pumping into me and even if not the doctor gets creative and prescribes for like Hypergonadism or some other hyper-ism who cares they won't have any excuse to not let me go on them~

...There is one ((Rather embarrassing D: )) question though is preservation of........ materials. Since some day I'd like to have a family too and especially if my partner is biologically female (And the person I love -is- ) I want to be able to.. I've no idea what to do there, if there's anywhere NEAR me if my parents would flip or what.. I don't know if hormones affect that immediately, I know 5-6 months in I'll end up sterile and would probably regret not doing it but I don't know what to do... ((Don't even know if that process still -functions- for me regardless, let alone in some facility or what have you))


----------



## Harlequin

Everything goes back to working if you stop taking female hormones. If you don't cut it off, I mean. AFAIK, anyway. that's how it works with ftms.


----------



## surskitty

Sperm bank?


----------



## octobr

First off: you little _shit_ :c



Harlequin said:


> Everything goes back to working if you stop taking female hormones. If you don't cut it off, I mean. AFAIK, anyway. that's how it works with ftms.


And not necessarily; it can cause sterility.

But as skoots said, sperm bank.


----------



## Bluberry Bat

_:<_

And, Yeah, Sperm Bank is what I was getting at, I guess I'm just a bit panicky and embarrassed and all.
I guess my question would be if anyone knows how long I have to decide, like if I start taking hormones and 4 months in I decide to do that if I'm so pumped full of estrogen it'll be inadvisable to use and if I did and had a boy he'd be like -super girly-. (Yeah no, but) I guess I haven't really thought about it, after like a year of mucking around with therapists now that I have confirmation it's like oh holy CRAP. I'm also planning on moving overseas eventually, so is it even possible to transport it? Or at least with a sense of modesty; Don't need airport security rifling through my bags and finding a *Bio-weapon* "Oh no wait, it's just-" And then I *Die*
I should probably just ask and stop being a jumpy embarrassed little wimp but parents are strange and still dunno how they're going to react I know they're still trying to stop me from taking hormones in the first place and keep asking me why not just stay the way I am if I want a family some day and ugh.


----------



## octobr

Well, I mean, if all else fails, you don't need to use ~your~ sperm. Hell, adopt, god knows there's plenty of kids who need it.


----------



## Dinru

First of all, L'il Dawgie, that's nothing to be embarrassed of 'round here. Yeah, sperm bank is probably your best bet without not taking the estrogen (which I doubt you'd want to do), or you could adopt. I mean I know there's always the chance that you and your girlfriend (assuming that you did mean girlfriend by that one statement) might wanna do the whole "pregnancy" thing. Also, the legal stuff with adopting could get messy depending on where you are and whether you're legally considered male or female and if you can get married and whether just one of you would have to adopt the kid legally or not or whatever...


----------



## Harlequin

Sperm has lasted for up to ten years, so if you want to store some you've got a relatively long time to ... get ready to use it, I guess.


----------



## Vladimir Putin's LJ

Well, first off: congratulations, Dwagie! I wish I could even work up the courage to tell my therapist about my gender issues, let alone come out to my parents or start taking hormones. I'm sorry your parents reacted negatively (if I remember correctly from that one CC thread) but it's good to hear that things are looking up.
I'm not really very informed about sperm preservation, etc but what everyone else says seems the best solution, really. Adoption is of course a good option but it's unerstandable that you'd want a child of your own blood.

nthing the Snazzy Verne thing. I always get frustrated at my suits because they're gigantic on the shoulders so I end up looking terrible. Also anxiously awaiting the departure of my father so I can get some scissors to my goddamned hair.
Also, question to FtMs: how do you bind? I'm looking for actual commercial binders but I've only been able to find them online so-far and since I don't have a credit card of my own I can't order them. I've used my mother's credit card in the past, with her permission and a promise to pay her back (which I always do) but it'd be pretty awkward to explain why something like T-Kingdom or whatever appears on her card bill at the end of the month and what it means.

I tried sowing one for myself out of bandages but you could still easily see I have breasts and it was pretty unreliable. I could definitely imagine it coming undone while I'm out and about. But that's mostly because the bandages were kind of thin and my sewing skills are shit.


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## Alexi

VPLJ: Don't ask how I know this, but try wearing a small T-shirt and then duct-taping your breasts down, then wear your normal clothes over it. Restricted breathing, yes, but if you're desperate enough...


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## octobr

DO NOT duct tape hi do you want your skin to come off _I didn't think so_ 

I personally am graced with itty bitty titties, 34 B, so I can just wear two sports bras sized 32 B and get away with normal guy t-shirts.

Ace bandages kinda suck cause they make breathing hell. Also they kill your ribs.


Underworks is hosting a contest where every week five guys get free binders -- it asks for your name as well as your shipping name, so it's totally stealth. Fairly certain that normally underworks has a stealth option too... I don't know. 

Besides, underworks sells all sorts of other stuff, too, so you could just explain it away as thus.


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## Bluberry Bat

Dinru said:


> First of all, L'il Dawgie, that's nothing to be embarrassed of 'round here. Yeah, sperm bank is probably your best bet without not taking the estrogen (which I doubt you'd want to do), or you could adopt. I mean I know there's always the chance that you and your girlfriend (assuming that you did mean girlfriend by that one statement) might wanna do the whole "pregnancy" thing. Also, the legal stuff with adopting could get messy depending on where you are and whether you're legally considered male or female and if you can get married and whether just one of you would have to adopt the kid legally or not or whatever...


Aaah I'm just.. shaky, about those functions when it comes to myself. >_< And to be honest, I'm more embarrassed about asking my parents - thus I'm yet to look into it. Yeah, though.. There's no way I wouldn't want to take the HRT. When it comes down to it, it's cautionary; I don't want to be a year down the line and realise that I was an idiot for not saving anything. As was mentioned, there's something about blood-family. But I only have my thoughts on one person, the same one I mentioned in my previous CC thread - My "sister" whom is keeping me arms-length currently. I'm unsure WHERE that would go, even being in another relationship if it doesn't work out, which is why I suppose I say I'm still a bit torn.
I HATE, HATE HATE HATE the idea of what feels like pawning off something like pregnancy on someone else. I absolutely don't want to put ANYONE through that kind of ordeal; I'd want to go through it myself. I feel like a user otherwise, someone else sacrificing their comfort and body.. And then connection you feel from harbouring your own offspring. But I'm just incapable of that unless science comes a LONG way in little time on it.. Adoption as such seems like a really good option, but again.. blood offspring. Not to mention, my genes with hers in particular... It's a tough position.. Because I still feel like I could never put her through that. It's even been offered that she'd do it WITHOUT being in a relationship - as in acting as surrogate mother should I be involved with someone else, but there's not even a chance I could do that.
Then there's the legal issues, albeit; She's a biological female, while my documentation will for likely a long time read that I'm a biological male. It might mitigate those adoption issues.. though I don't know.

And thanks, VPLJ. Yes, my parents are still being difficult.. But I've found out the hormones are covered by insurance as I mentioned, so there's really nothing they can do. (Since I wouldn't have the money to pay for them on my own) I do still get lots of arguments started up, ramblings about how they wish it were different and etcetera, but I think at this point they know they can't stop me..
I know how it is to be in that position too, it took me ages to tell anyone - I was terrified. But as I've talked more about it, it's become much, much easier. I don't know if you have someone, a CLOSE friend or trusted therapist, but if you can open to SOMEONE suddenly it becomes easier. At least, it did for me. The first person I told was my "sister" I've mentioned - I was terrified I would be thrown out the door by her, outed, disconnected from all my friends.. But instead she ended up helping me form an entire support string to where I was able to tell my parents. It always feels like noone will accept it as you tell them, and it's hard, they're not going to react well; Parents just.. don't. But waiting doesn't change that either. Nowadays I'm adamant about it to them, and it's helped me have the foundation of necessity that even they couldn't deny.
I don't know if that's any help at all, and I'd hope you would be able to establish a similar comfort..

Anyway... [/EndBrainsplat]


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## Dannichu

Why do all these guys have bigger boobs than me? D:

I think Alexi meant duct-taping over the tight t-shirt, but I can't imagine that'd be too effective, and the restricted breathing aspect would, uh, kinda suck.

I feel your pain on the wanting to order embarassing stuff off the 'net (granted, my 'embarassing thing' was £50's worth of Pokemon cards, which doesn't really compare); could you get your own debit card? My sister's 16 and she's got one and can order stuff online with it. I'd suggest either that or coming up with some really elaborate lie about what you're really ordering with your mum's, because I can't imagine the home-made versions being either comfortable or entirely safe.

Dwagie, I think it'd be a good idea if you asked a specialised MtF message board/community about things like hormones and sperm preservation - only because I think they'd give you better, more accurate information than we have. Plus, if you're embarrassed, you could use any random name and nobody'd know it's you~
(basically, I have no idea, but I wanted to be helpful ):)


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## Wyvern

How come I don't get reply notification emails? O.o

@Verne: Nice, I'd go out with tha- *shot*

@Dwagie: HOORAY X3

I can't wait to see what you look like afterwards :3


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## octobr

speaking of which... i straight-up come out to my class tomorrow. Via my speech. About that essay that I had to do. Reminds me, I promised to upload it, huh?


Also the wait on prop 8's decision is gonna /kill/ me, it's not 10 pst until I'm in drama. ew.


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## Harlequin

how'd it go verne huh huh huh

also: why are there so many lesbians here when there are practically _zero_ at another forum I go to

(seriously the gay forum there is like full of cock)


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## Vladimir Putin's LJ

Harlequin said:


> (seriously the gay forum there is like full of cock)


not necessarily a bad thing.


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## Harlequin

you'd think it'd only be a good thing, right

but I mean

the quality of that forum

it's 

no words.


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## octobr

That was weird.

I totally went through with it. But I don't think it registered for anyone but my friend who already knew who was like 'lolwhut?'


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## surskitty

A BIT LATE BUT

\m/ Obama


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## Dinru

Wow.

Kudos, Obama. Kudos.


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## Dannichu

I mean... it's good, yeah, but... he hasn't really done much about DADT yet and he's been able to do so for absolutely ages. Plus, all the talking about "equality" with "civil unions" and not a mention of marriage just seems a little hypocritical.

As it's been said:


> The big thing missing from this document is the "when." Also, there's no mention about progress in the states that now have marriage equality, or the setback of Prop 8. It was a perfect opportunity to do this, but alas, no.


I mean, it's _good_... but it could be better :/


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## Wyvern

I don't see the point in gay marriage tbh.

You get more benefits by being a de facto couple and you don't have to go through divorce and crap if it doesn't work out.

My boyfriend wants to get married, but I don't see the point.

Then again, he also wants children....*shudders*


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## octobr

The point is equality.

Cause everyone else gets marriage and we're stuck on a lower level.

It's the fact that we could _access_ marriage if we so wanted, complete with all the benefits and titles of a straight couple; it sets us on the same level as them, which is where we belong, cause we deserve _not_ to have to have clubs and support groups and shit because we're not different than anyone else cept in who we like or how we express ourselves.


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## Wyvern

Verne said:


> The point is equality.
> 
> Cause everyone else gets marriage and we're stuck on a lower level.
> 
> It's the fact that we could _access_ marriage if we so wanted, complete with all the benefits and titles of a straight couple; it sets us on the same level as them, which is where we belong, cause we deserve _not_ to have to have clubs and support groups and shit because we're not different than anyone else cept in who we like or how we express ourselves.


I see your point there.

In Queensland, Australia, two single gay people living in the same house will get more benefits than a married couple. What the Queensland gays want is the right to marry, but to keep the benefits of a single same-sex couple.

It kinda screws it for the rest of us because all people want is more more more :/


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## octobr

http://www.realjock.com/gayforums/544853/

i dare you to listen to that mp3. 


guh. I'm gonna vomit.


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## Minish

Same-sex couples want to marry because it's the thing everyone's raised with - the ideal of marriage, eternal bonding and all that. Plus I want to be able to refer to my partner as 'wife' if we feel we should be a married couple. :/

(in other news, oh my god, I'm so happy I finally got round to watch the L Word <3)


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## Wyvern

Cirrus said:


> Same-sex couples want to marry because it's the thing everyone's raised with - the ideal of marriage, eternal bonding and all that. Plus I want to be able to refer to my partner as 'wife' if we feel we should be a married couple. :/
> 
> (in other news, oh my god, I'm so happy I finally got round to watch the L Word <3)


Most people in Australia these days are raised with abuse and divorce D:

My parents divorced and it took them 2 and a half years to finally finish the settlement. This leads me to believe that marriage is useless and only costs you a shitload in the end :/


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## surskitty

That's more of "why people need prenupts".


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## octobr

Lol hey guys wht happened to this place?


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## Minish

Wyvern said:


> Most people in Australia these days are raised with abuse and divorce D:
> 
> My parents divorced and it took them 2 and a half years to finally finish the settlement. This leads me to believe that marriage is useless and only costs you a shitload in the end :/


We're being raised with a mix here. GET MARRIED YOU HAVE TO IT'S THE ONE GOAL IN LIFE with SO MANY PEOPLE GET DIVORCED, YOU OVER THERE! YOU'RE LIKELY TO GET DIVORCED!

I think people just tend to make up their own ideas about marriage because of that. xD

Aww, but not everyone gets divorced and the ones who do don't always break up like that. My parents divorced really painlessly and they're still good friends, even though he lives in another country and only gets to see us a few times a year.


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## Wyvern

Cirrus said:


> We're being raised with a mix here. GET MARRIED YOU HAVE TO IT'S THE ONE GOAL IN LIFE with SO MANY PEOPLE GET DIVORCED, YOU OVER THERE! YOU'RE LIKELY TO GET DIVORCED!
> 
> I think people just tend to make up their own ideas about marriage because of that. xD
> 
> Aww, but not everyone gets divorced and the ones who do don't always break up like that. My parents divorced really painlessly and they're still good friends, even though he lives in another country and only gets to see us a few times a year.


I'm glad my dad left because he's a fat *beeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeep* though he caused us nothing but crap for the whole time.


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## octobr

I don't think I'd ever get married unless it made sense. I mean, I just don't think I have the ability to make that sorta commitment... hurr.


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## Vladimir Putin's LJ

I'd get married if my boyfriend really wanted it but I have no special desire to do so myself.
(plus the wedding'd be kinda awkward. hi mum n dad :v)


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## Harlequin

I'd get married if it's what my boyfriend wanted. I don't really care, although it would be nice to have a "husband" rather than a "boyfriend." 

Oh, wait. I don't have that in Britain. He'll be my "civil partner." Fuck that.


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## octobr

Lol, welcome to americaaaa?


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## Dewgong

civil partner. pffff.

how dumb.


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## Minish

I hate civil partners so much. The government could at least have marriage and civil partnerships under one umbrella term, like just 'unions' or whatever. 'Different but equal' is really stupid and offensive.

Plus, you can't call your partner 'husband' or 'wife', what are you supposed to say, 'my civil partner'? >_> 'Partner' makes it sound like you're not married.


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## Vladimir Putin's LJ

Harlequin said:


> Oh, wait. I don't have that in Britain. He'll be my "civil partner." Fuck that.


I got a bit peeved at an article in this month's Attitude (yeah I know leave me alone). They usually have this feature where two people argue for or against a specific cause or issue (MSM donating blood, hillary vs obama way back, etc), and this month it happened to be 'Is Pride Still Relevant?', which was all in all a good article with good arguments from both sides.
But one thing that annoyed me was that both the guys said 'well now that we in britain have equal rights it seems a bit silly blablabla' but you British gays _aren't_ equal. I hope it was just these guys and not a widespread belief in Britain that homosexuals should content themselves with shitty 'civil unions that are actually the same thing as marriages but have different names because ewww poofs ): '


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## Harlequin

no it's a widespread thing. nobody cares that we can't get married because we can get a civil partnership. "there are more important things to worry about" is a popular one.


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## Vladimir Putin's LJ

But that's like calling interracial marriages niggeriages or something, you get the same thing but it's not equal ):


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## Harlequin

yeah this is my argument. maybe I will campaign about it or something idk. ben summerskill is talking about it I think.


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## octobr

Know what's weird? The more comfortable I'm getting to be with my male self, the more self-conscious I'm getting. I mean not so much in how my body looks, I don't really care, but that I can't exercise and gain muscle mass as a teenage boy should. That plus the asthma really fucks me up, because I love exercise and it's part of my mental image of boyverne so I'm yeah. Sigh.


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## Harlequin

It sucks but that's the card you got dealt! I guess it's just something you have to come to terms with. I mean, you _can_ build muscle - look at female body builders. I'm trying to be helpful but I don't think I actually am :(

sorry


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## surskitty

My uncle has huge body image issues because he works out a lot and he still looks pudgy.  I mean like he is _mostly muscle_ and so on but he still ... looks pudgy.  Cisgender guys have issues with that a lot, too.  :/


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## surskitty

My uncle has huge body image issues because he works out a lot and he still looks pudgy.  I mean like he is _mostly muscle_ and so on but he still ... looks pudgy.  Cisgender guys have issues with that a lot, too.  :/


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## Vladimir Putin's LJ

Hey guys guess what I got in the mail today (along with many others but).





teehee


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## surskitty

That's an awesome shirt.


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## Keltena

Oh, that is amazing. Now I need one. D:


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## Harlequin

your t-shirt's gay


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## Wyvern

Harlequin said:


> your t-shirt's gay


Um.....no u?


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## Vladimir Putin's LJ

Harlequin said:


> your t-shirt's gay


it is then appropriate that *i* should wear it!

Got it from here knock yourselves out.


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## Harlequin

fag.

no it's cool. not something i'd wear but it *spreads a message of love and tolerance* and shows everyone that fags > *


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## Mhaladie

that website is probably one of the best things I've seen all week and definitely the best thing today.


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## Dinru

That is an amazing shirt~ Go Questionable Content :D I'd get one if I had the courage to actually wear it in public. (Yeah, I'll wear a rainbow sweater and bracelet with a short pink skirt and multi-colored tights for coming out day but I won't wear a shirt like that because it's too obvious. People here are allowed to slap me x.x)



That shirt is so gay. As in happy. It is a happy shirt.


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## Vladimir Putin's LJ

i'm pretty sure no one at my school knows what 'lgbt' is except for the teachers so the message is kind of lost but errr
edit: well like 70% of them are gay but still.

edit2: just found out Hans Christian Andersen of all people was bisexual. I kind of had a 'left-field' moment there, like I always do when I find out some proeminent figure from my childhood was anything but straight.
Has anyone had this happen to them or is it internalized heteronormativity.


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## Miror B

C-can I join this club? I'm a lesbian...


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## octobr

Tchaikovsky for me. I guess it makes sense though.


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## Harlequin

Nah that happens to me all the time. I'm like "...they're a gay?"

I mean it even happened with my friend's father. I used to go over to her house *every Wednesday* and then a few years ago he came out as gay. That was like "...who knew."


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## Dewgong

that's happened to me before. you honestly can't tell a difference in most people from a heterosexual person if you don't know. then it's like "i had no idea..." haha.

yo miror b, 'course you can join. welcome~


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## octobr

Avatar just gave trans advice.

Iroh mistook a very androgynous girl for a boy. She flipped out. When her friend comforted her she was like, "I know, you're right. As long as I'm confident in myself, it doesn't matter what anyone else thinks."



<3.


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## Dewgong

^ hahaha that is totally awesome.


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## spaekle

Verne said:


> Know what's weird? The more comfortable I'm getting to be with my male self, the more self-conscious I'm getting. I mean not so much in how my body looks, I don't really care, but that I can't exercise and gain muscle mass as a teenage boy should. That plus the asthma really fucks me up, because I love exercise and it's part of my mental image of boyverne so I'm yeah. Sigh.


I'm trying to start exercising myself, but this would be like attempt number 9001 and I tend to give it up after a few days. This time I'm putting smiley faces in a notebook for every day I meet my goal as positive reinforcement. :) I need something to make me feel like less of a lazy unemployed ass, and it should help in the long run anyway.

Hahaha, that shirt is awesome.

Funny thing; my APUSH textbook for some reason felt the need to point out every gay historical figure ever. Walt Whitman I already knew, but Horatio Alger was kind of a surprise. And apparently there was some kind of women's labor thing where most of the participating women were lesbians.

And she's not exactly a historical figure, but I was really excited what I found out that Meowth's old voice actor was a transwoman. :D


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## octobr

You have a way cooler APUSH book than I did. Mine mentioned the lgbt movement in passing but that was it.


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## Vladimir Putin's LJ

I don't know what APUSH is but none of my history books ever had a list of famous LGBT people. Whenever someone was gay or bi it might be mentioned (like Leonardo da Vinci) but other than that v:huh:v
I had a teacher who gave us a small speech (complete with graph) about THIS BEING THE 21ST CENTURY and WE HAVE TO ACCEPT DIFFERENCES and NO ONE IS COMPLETELY STRAIGHT OR GAY WE'RE ALL BI out of the blue but apart from that we only talk about queer issues in Ethics and it's pretty much me and a small group of others against willful retards. I mean I was pleasantly surprised at the support gay issues got but they were all like 'durp trannies choose to be the other gender!' and wouldn't listen to me when I said that no, there was a choice in having an operation or not, not in being born the wrong gender.

But they would not listen ):


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## spaekle

APUSH = Advanced Placement US History. 

Our textbook went into some detail on the beginning of the gay rights movement. Our teacher made us write note cards of important people in the movement, the Stonewall riots, things like that. Feminism was covered a whole lot too. :]


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## Vladimir Putin's LJ

In sad news, Lt. Dan Choi's getting fired from the army for being gay after serving for ten years and fighting for his rights for the past couple of months.
He's not going to let up though, and he's going to personally present a petition to Pelosi about repealing DADT. Everyone sign it, you never know what'll trigger that 'oh yeah, we still have to let fags into the military' thing.


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## octobr

ffff that is all
ppl r dum thx


rofl so IRRELEVANTLY i guess or something
I changed my name on the facebooks (lol whut) to matt and am waiting for the responses

so far: 'hey is that you? just checkin.'


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## Alexi

Dude Verne, I totally saw someone today that looked like you. It made me lol.


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## octobr

Lol? Not ... orgasm? Fffff. No respect.


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## Alexi

That too, but it just goes without saying.


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## Bluberry Bat

God dammit, dad. God fucking dammit. I've never felt such a seething hatred, holy SHIT. I'm TRYING to leave, stop bullshitting me around. "I've done research" - SO HAVE I. "Well I know three people in England who say it's no good for you!" Well I know about -30-, and oh yeah yesterday it was ONE person you knew. And you think I have to take an ad out in the paper to get my name changed? Uuuh... NO? Idiot, god damned idiot. So after I call him on all this he as good as admits that he finds me disgusting. In his own words I'm "Unnatural", and that he hopes that I change my mind and stay a guy. Dad for FUCKS sake, it's not changing, get over yourself!
Oh and, "Oh, well you yourself say you don't want to go through this. So why not change?" .....MAYBE THIS SHOULD INDICATE HOW SINCERE I -AM-?! Haven't I SAID, there's no waiting list for this, if I could be happy as I was I WOULD BE, but I'm NOT. Why ELSE would I put up with your crap?! I've been on HRT for a month and all the happier with myself since, but you keep throwing wrenches at me. You fucking sound like a religious right wing bigot and I'm SICK of it. Dammit all, 3 months, 3 months and I'm OUT of this shithole of a country and away from YOU.
That wasn't enough though.
Dad: "You care for Camilla more than most people, right?"
Me: "Well, yeah"
Dad: "She's straight, right?"
Me: "..Yes, I suppose so"
Dad: "Well, why wouldn't you just stay a boy, then? Wouldn't that mean she's not interested in you?"
..............For, fucks, sake. As if it isn't hard enough that I'm living with the fact that a relationship with the ONLY person I've EVER cared for might be impossible because of this, but you feel the need to mock me for it and use it as an excuse. You know something, yes it could mean that, and I don't need YOU telling me..... I don't know what the hell to do. And I can't get this to stop ringing in my mind. I love her, so much, a straight girl as I myself am transitioning to female - and she says she doesn't feel the same way. Is it because of that? We get on like sisters, it feels off. Does it matter any more? I've told her I'll not transition far in the past if it means anything, but she said no - that wouldn't be right. And.. it's not. Am I screwed, do things change, CAN things change, WILL anything EVER work the RIGHT GOD DAMN WAY FOR ME. I can't even speak about it because she says she just can't think about it now and I don't want to bother her, and I'm trapped between every waking AND unconscious thought being about her, a bigoted father, and an entire ocean. And then I wonder, when I remove the latter two, what becomes of it?
Dammit... >_< [/mushyrant]


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## spaekle

Damn, I'm sorry. :( 

This is why I'm waiting 'till after I'm out of the house to tell my parents. Some parents are just way too unreasonable about this, and considering mine actually _are_ hardcore right-wing religious freaks I'm guessing I'm going to have a similar deal to yours. :\ 

I hope everything gets better for you. Only three months until you're away from that place, yeah?


----------



## Dewgong

maaaaan sableeee that sucks. :/

you're dad sounds like a tard. :<

please be okay D:


----------



## fresh fruit for Adol

Ooh, another LGBT club?  I'm assuming it'd be okay for me to join even though I'm straight; I'm in an LGBT Club at my school, soo...  I'd like to join here too.


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## octobr

Allies are _always_ welcome. Srsly.

dwagie -- let me say this for you and everyone else: do what is right and healthy -- physically and mentally -- _for you._ This may, probably will, involve losing the faith of certain people you felt close; those people would have hurt you later anywho. 





here's something for luls! My uncle is really gay like wow. And he was wearing an HRC shirt. At one point he asked for muscle relaxants and my mom suggested midol and he was like 'oh ew no i might start bleeding, I don't want to end up like cher's daughter.'

'... his name is chaz.' 

'yeah whatever'

'sorta ironic that you're wearing that shirt but making tranny jokes isn't it'

'it wasn't a tranny joke!'
fff he doesn't believe bisexuals exist either


----------



## Bluberry Bat

Spaekle Oddberry said:


> Damn, I'm sorry. :(
> 
> This is why I'm waiting 'till after I'm out of the house to tell my parents. Some parents are just way too unreasonable about this, and considering mine actually _are_ hardcore right-wing religious freaks I'm guessing I'm going to have a similar deal to yours. :\
> 
> I hope everything gets better for you. Only three months until you're away from that place, yeah?


As far as my plans go, yeah.. I have a follow-up with my doctor some time in that time frame and then me and a friend are both shooting off to England. I'm applying for citisenship as soon as I'm there, I'm unsure about him, but I'm still better off on a park bench than around here I swear so even if I truly can't find a job. :/ But I have a lot of people with open couches so..
In the mean time I'm working on my name change, followed immediately by my passport. Some time in the September - October range I should be out of here.. Hopefully that's all very soon. :/ If it wasn't the bloody July 4th weekend I'd have gotten through today, adding to the delays my parents throw in.

Sigh >_< And erk.... I don't even know what happened, mine are liberal lefties but turned into just utter intolerant jackarses at this. And they always spout "Well even if you were GAY it wouldn't really matter" ...What does that even mean.. Ugh, I couldn't leave it alone though. My shrink pointed out, for better or for worse, that I'm feisty as hell. I just got adamant about it and never let off. But they're intolerable at this point... At least I was able to start the HRT, it's a godsend, but they DO try to dissuade me.



Dewgong said:


> maaaaan sableeee that sucks. :/
> 
> you're dad sounds like a tard. :<
> 
> please be okay D:


I never would have guessed either but he's worse and worse every day, he came off as intelligent, tolerant, just a cool guy BEFORE I told him. And.. I don't understand, really. I suppose I should be glad he didn't completely stop me from doing certain things, or... beat me up. I get the feeling he wants to. "Man his son up" and all that. According to him I'm "Denying him his son".
*Sigh* If not for having so much to look to in England I probably would have taken up bungee cordless bungee jumping by now.



Verne said:


> Allies are _always_ welcome. Srsly.
> 
> dwagie -- let me say this for you and everyone else: do what is right and healthy -- physically and mentally -- _for you._ This may, probably will, involve losing the faith of certain people you felt close; those people would have hurt you later anywho.


*Sigh* I already have lost faith in everyone previously close to me. My nan didn't even visit for her birthday after being told by my aunt, and she's a lonely widow who takes any single chance she can get to come up, previously. Everyone pretty much sucks. :/ I'm just doing everything I can now to get ready so I can be -ME-, start over in a new place, new friggen country. But, even though we'll always be really close friends I can be sure, it just feels like a cruel joke, that I fell so deeply for someone no longer in my available realm. I have a lot of really understanding friends there, but it's like some kind of purgatory. I still don't know what's going to happen..

Sigh.. Thanks everyone. >_< I really just needed a... rant. Forgive the rambling... I doubt I'm coming across very clearly at the moment..


----------



## Dinru

Oh Sable... *hugs*

I wish there was just some way to transport you to the UK magically. I wish there was some way to make your dad understand that a penis isn't what makes someone a man, and a vagina isn't what makes someone a woman... 

Oh, wait a second... I have an idea. maybe, one day, if you haven't already thought of this, if he's still giving your grief... ask him, if one day, he woke up with boobs and a vagina, would he think of himself as female. Make him think about that for a while. Seriously. Because quite frankly, I think he needs to take a walk in your shoes. And I hope that they're those skinny high-heeled ones that leave so many stupid blisters >D

But just keep holding on hun, and know that it will get better. You'll see.


----------



## mehwmew

according to stupid rappers it is.

Dwagie....do what you think is right.


----------



## Wyvern

A friend of mine once said "Before you criticise someone, walk a mile in their shoes. That way if you piss them off, they're a mile away and they have no shoes"

Just a bit of comedy to bring a happy note =)

I seem to be the only one without a problem besides distance ._.


----------



## Harlequin

Everyone has problems of some sort. They might seem small compared to other people's, but they're still problems. You shouldn't compare your troubles to other people's because at the end of the day, you're still left with a problem even if it *isn't *as bad as theirs.

I don't know what I'm trying to say. :(


----------



## Dinru

^Uh I think I have some sort of idea. Basically, if you waste your energy thinking your problems aren't so bad because other people's are worse, at the end of the day you'll have done nothing. A problem is a problem is a problem, and everyone has them. Rather than compare and contrast, just try to fix your own and/or help others with theirs.


----------



## octobr

fff i have a great friend. At least one. That's reassuring!

She ims me the other day. 'do you want me to call you matt or sarah?' and I was like. you are awesome.


----------



## Wyvern

I'm awesome friends with Sable here. I help her in any way I can and she returns the favour ^^


----------



## foreign contaminant

hi, everyone. i'm pretty sure i'm not gay, but i'll happily join the club as one of many supporters.

why "pretty sure"? well..



Vladimir Putin's LJ said:


> Do you want to hear a dumb post filled with shitty introspection and angst, with a possible hint of offensiveness?
> Awesome.


i can relate, if only because this issue has been eating me up for close to a year.

i'm "pretty sure" i'm not gay because when i look at pictures of men or something, i don't get aroused or erect or whatever you want to call it. i don't lust after men. i don't get undying urges to just.. be in love with another dude. and before.

thing is, i'm pretty sure i *did* at some point though. when i was maybe 13 or 14, i could speak of all of the above in an affirmative manner. i was uncomfortable at first, but then i thought, 'well, if it has to be this way, then i just have to accept it.'

but just when i was getting a little comfortable with that, those feelings went away. i didn't feel like that anymore. i tried to do the same things to get those feelings again, but they wouldn't come again. i half wanted them to come back, actually. i wondered what was up.. well, there was this thing that happened at a birthday party i went to, but i don't think that that had any effect on my sexuality. (long story short, this kid was overjoyed that i was the only one to go to his birthday party and his first wet dream involved me getting down with a black man.)

anyway, i lived comfortably considering myself "asexual," or whatever it is when you don't feel attracted to either men or women. (i haven't felt an attraction to women since i was, like, eleven, to be honest.) i never went out to anyone, because my parents are ultra-conservative. i wouldn't want anything detrimental happening. anyway, things were okay afterwards. i'd felt more comfortable not being attracted to anyone than being attracted to dudes like me.

everything was okay until gym class in 10th grade. i was fortunate enough to wind up with more burly dudes than me, who just _knew_ i was gay and that there was no other option for me. no, i'm not very muscular and my voice is ambiguous, at least on the phone. that didn't make me gay in my mind. but these guys thought otherwise, so they'd do anything they could. unholy epithets, spanking, tripping, etc. they persisted throughout the year. truth be told, they would have the year before that, but i was friends with a linebacker on the football team who didn't take trash from anyone. sophomore year, we kind of drifted apart, so i was left to fend for myself unsuccessfully.

perhaps understandably, i was annoyed immensely by these boys. but i think what bothered me most was the fact that, at least at some point, what they felt were insults were true. but i just assumed that that "sexuality is fluid" thing was true, because my preferences did change, and i didn't think i willed that to happen. but still, what they were saying stuck in my head, enough to make me think it was still true.

because of that, i would go look at things that used to give me tingly feelings and, if it's even possible, encourage it to happen. i'd search for pictures of actors, bizarre videos, etc. nothing would happen; i wouldn't feel anything. so i'd go to bed at night thinking i'd either wasted my time, reaffirmed the notion that i wasn't gay, or both.

after awhile i just shook their words off and do whatever. sometimes, what they'd say would nag me enough to make me go in the hall and jump rope with the girls, which probably added more fuel to the fire. but whatever.. i don't take insults well, but it's even harder to stand up for myself. i didn't want to have to be around that.

18 months have passed since then, and pretty much nobody has messed with me in that way since then. even now, though, what they still say makes me think i am gay. but i do the same things i did before, and i get the same reaction: nothing.

but sometimes it doesn't work that way. sometimes it'll be _me_ thinking those things and i'll try that. sometimes i'll do things that i think would give me those feelings, like hello wallpaper. but even in that instance, i feel no arousal and something more like, 'you know, i really like kerouac's writing and his personality seemed cool too.'

i was convinced until recently that i just had no sex drive, and it's still bothering me. i guess it bothers me because i don't understand how people will be so into finding love and i just can't do it even if i wanted to. i'd love to be anything; straight, because i'd love to know girls just because i don't remember how that feels. gay, because i was comfortable with it before and if that's the way it is, then fine. but i just.. have no urge to do that and sometimes i really wish it could be that way. when my mom says, "when i get grandbabies," she never seems to get it when i say "i don't.. do relationships." (she's asked me twice if i'm gay, actually. at both times, the answer was no, and i felt it was an honest answer each time.) it's not that i don't want them for you, i just.. don't think i'd be a good boyfriend to a guy or girl for reasons stated previously.

i guess i'm done. i'm sorry if it doesn't flow well.. i've been debating to post this or not; people who have been in the irc room in the last week probably have heard me talk about a handful of the things i've just talked about here. maybe some of you know where i'm coming from?


----------



## Harlequin

hey fags. lurk less.


----------



## Keltena

*unlurks*

Uhhh... OH RIGHT. HAVE SOME PICTURES FROM THE ~*~GAY PRIDE PARADE~*~ I WENT TO.

My school and one other had a float, this is it
It basically looked like this if you looked straight ahead
Before the parade started
This little girl kept that hula hoop going the _whole time_. It was amazing.
Those signs are heavier than they look.

Soyeah!


----------



## EvilCrazyMonkey

Hey, does anyone have any advice for coming out in a non-confronting way? I'm ready for my parents to know but not to tell them. I actually /want/ them to know because I think that I'd feel better. I don't like them that much (and they're homophobic), so is it just better to wait until I can financially support myself?


----------



## octobr

'hey mom what's for lunch i'm gay can you get me some candy from the store?'

IF ONLY


----------



## Dewgong

depends on how homophobic they are. if they're like... suspectable to kick you out, not support you financially, etc. i'd wait. 

also, i think you'd probably feel better telling them too, but i don't know your parents, and some parents act extremely bad towards coming out.


----------



## Dinru

I can't really help you with when to come out, but as for how... maybe get a boyfriend and mention it casually? Make subtle references, like "Well maybe my future husband will..." or things like that? And if they try to correct you you just say "No I said what I meant and I meant what I said" or something?


----------



## EvilCrazyMonkey

Dewgong said:


> depends on how homophobic they are. if they're like... suspectable to kick you out, not support you financially, etc. i'd wait.
> 
> also, i think you'd probably feel better telling them too, but i don't know your parents, and some parents act extremely bad towards coming out.


Like, I fear that they're going to kick me out, but I think that's just my survival instinct kicking in. They're not very decent as far as people go, but they wouldn't do that, I don't think. I'm more scared of what they could do, rather than what they would do.




Dinru said:


> I can't really help you with when to come out, but as for how... maybe get a boyfriend and mention it casually? Make subtle references, like "Well maybe my future husband will..." or things like that? And if they try to correct you you just say "No I said what I meant and I meant what I said" or something?


I've been trying this. Like referencing having no kids and people would normally say "you don't want kids?" I usually respond with "I don't _not_ want kids, but I probably won't (be able to) have them."
Whenever I reference a hypothetical boyfriend I either use partner or "them."
I've told people I don't want to get married as a ploy to myself so that I won't be extremely let down if I won't be able to.

Of course, I can always wait a couple years until prom, get a date, rent a limo so that they'd have to pick me up at my house, have him knock on the door, and watch the expressions on my parents' faces when I introduce him.
Freaking priceless. I'd have to plant secret cameras.

Or if I get a boyfriend after prom chances are over, like in uni or something, I could just bring him home for Christmas and be like "Mom, [Boyfriend]. [Boyfriend], mom." She'd probably ask if he wants the downstairs room and I'd be like "Oh, no, that's fine. Nice of you to ask, but he can stay in my room," if she doesn't get the hint we're dating at first.


----------



## Wyvern

EvilCrazyMonkey said:


> Hey, does anyone have any advice for coming out in a non-confronting way? I'm ready for my parents to know but not to tell them. I actually /want/ them to know because I think that I'd feel better. I don't like them that much (and they're homophobic), so is it just better to wait until I can financially support myself?


I'm only semi-serious about this...

Tell them at the most awkward of times for them. Mine was easy coz my mum isn't homophobic (am I the only person here who's parent/s isn't/aren't homophobe/s?)


----------



## Jolty

Wyvern said:


> (am I the only person here who's parent/s isn't/aren't homophobe/s?)


Nope, mine aren't
My dad didn't believe me the first time though lol


----------



## Bluberry Bat

My parents aren't homophobic.. But I could be fairly sure they're transphobic. They've always been okay with gay; they told me they figured I was actually. Kind of typical that, but as soon as I told them what was REALLY going on they flipped. <_< And started asking me "Why can't you just be... gay, instead? Gay's fine! This is..." "You know, even if you were gay, that would be fine, but... this?" "You know, everyone at those meetings ((LGBT Centre)) can act all happy go lucky about this, but we can see the truth, noone gets it! They're lying to you and themselves!"
Ugh die in a fiery pit please.

Anyway..... the best advice I can give is drop hints. =/ Make it so it's more a suspected thing, so it's like getting hit in the head with a rock, instead of.. a train.


----------



## Zhorken

Just act like it's perfectly normal, like it doesn't mean anything.  Because it is, and it doesn't.  o.o  Getting a boyfriend and then trying to convey that he's your boyfriend without directly saying anything is practically asking for chaos and is kinda obnoxious, but just mentioning it casually could work (relatively) well.

Mom asked me one day if I'd had any crushes on girls recently and I said "nah, crushes on boys"; she didn't make a big deal out of it.  (I knew she'd be okay with it.  That wasn't the issue.  I just didn't want her to fuss over it, and it... worked.)


----------



## Dewgong

Wyvern said:


> (am I the only person here who's parent/s isn't/aren't homophobe/s?)


well... most of my family is but my parents pretty much aren't.


----------



## Wyvern

Yay! ^_^

It seems that most of my gay/bi friends who live near me have parents who are like "ZOMG UR GAY GTFO"

One of them has a step-dad who'd kick him out of home if he found out. Which sucks, because it means I can't *wink*


----------



## octobr

My mom's just dumb, she's not phobic.


----------



## Wyvern

Verne said:


> My mom's just dumb, she's not phobic.


I lol'd


----------



## Vladimir Putin's LJ

My mother's not homophobic, but my dad is, kind of. Don't care really since he's nearly always in another country, usually thousands of miles away.
I've tried dropping hints to my mum about stuff, and she's gotten more used to the idea that I want masculine clothes and helps me out now (though she got pretty upset when I said I didn't want to wear a dress and make-up to our version of the prom and we had to compromise. She plans these things out in advance :v). And she once actually asked me whether I felt like a boy but I was a retard and said no (derp) and she told me she's support me whatever I'd do regarding gender once when she was a bit high on sleeping pills.

foreign contaminant, I read your message and it is a pretty perplexing situation. I can only really see a couple of things; either it's some kind of temporary loss of interest due to hormones doing backflips (which does happen more often than people are willing to admit), which I think seems likely, or you're somehow evolved into asexuality, which wouldn't be the worst thing ever because asexuals can still have relationships, seeing as asexual =/= aromantic.
But I don't know, it's a hard situation to be in, sorry I can't be of any help :/


----------



## Koori Renchuu

I'm coming out of the closet, I'm bisexual!


----------



## octobr

Alas, you still annoy the hell out of me. :c sorry. 

Mom told me the other day that I was in America and girls have to shave in America even though she 'understands why' I don't want to, but she said I have to shave. I didn't. TAKE THAT!


----------



## Vladimir Putin's LJ

Verne said:


> Alas, you still annoy the hell out of me. :c sorry.
> 
> Mom told me the other day that I was in America and girls have to shave in America even though she 'understands why' I don't want to, but she said I have to shave. I didn't. TAKE THAT!


omg me too except replace america with 'planet earth'
brograbs.


----------



## Wyvern

Most things are going pretty smoothly for me ^_^

Except I'm desperate for a kiss and a hug ._.


----------



## Dewgong

would you like a kiss and a hug from me


----------



## Wyvern

Dewgong said:


> would you like a kiss and a hug from me


Well, I only take them from males x3

And Idk whether you are one since your gender says "it" :P


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## spaekle

(rant post)

Oh, children, and their need to have everything fit into a simple little box that their simple little minds can feel comfortable with. The most intolerant people I've ever seen of straying from gender norms have been kids. Which is probably among the myriad of reasons why I hate them so much.

My 8-year-old brother, for example. He firmly believes that girls have long hair and boys have short. He thinks I should like having my hair long 'because that's girly', and since I'm a girl in his eyes, I'm supposed to like what he percieves as being 'girly'. Hell, in his demented view of the world, I'm supposed to be exactly like those bitches on that iCarly show he watches (and that I like to make a point of telling him that, from an outside viewpoint, is a pretty 'girly' show, just to make him a little more insecure.)

It doesn't even stop at people. It matters to him what sex _animals_ are. He feels the need to refer to the birds he sees on the bird feeder outside as "that male bird" or "that female bird". When I realized that one of my new pet frogs is actually female, it was like the biggest news he'd heard all week. As if you're supposed to treat a fucking _frog_ differently because of what reproductive organs it has. He even wanted to change her name to something 'girlier' (and her name is "Pickle", which seems fairly unisex to me.) Hell, he won't even catch a Pokemon he wants if it happens to be female, because I guess that makes him 'girly' or something.

tl;dr my brother is an annoying fuckwit and being as odd as I am in the gender area he's quite a chore to be around.

Although he did make me laugh once... during the conversation about me having short hair, he asked something along the lines of "what, are you going to get rid of all your girl things and be a boy now?" and I was like "well, uh..."


----------



## Dewgong

kids are awful with that stuff. i know some around that age and they're the same way. it sucks. and it's extremely annoying. my grandpa is the same about the "girls should have long hair" thing it's awful. :(

anyways my cousins all act like that.


----------



## Dinru

I know what you mean Speakle... one of my little cousins once gaped in astonishment when she found out that me and two of our other (female) cousins play video games. "But video games are for boys!" Ugh. And _her dad (my uncle) joined in_. And then said uncle accused all of us of being lesbians. Little did he know...

But I digress.

But at least they're young enough to slowly introduce to the concept of "not acting or being a certain way due to your genitals", and maybe actually _get it_.


----------



## Vladimir Putin's LJ

My mother's only issue with my looks is my hair, she really wants me to keep it girly. But a new hairdresser's just opened on the other side of the street so er good luck mum.

And sorry, I understand your anger, but you can't blame *kids* for their views on sex. It's created by society and how adults view gender, you can't expect children to be able to form independent views on something that complex.


----------



## spaekle

^ Yeah, you're right. I've just driven it firmly into my brain that all children are idiots (I don't work well around them at all, if you can imagine). It still pisses me off no matter where it comes from though. :\


----------



## octobr

Yeah, he is eight. It's mostly what he's learned that's making his decisions.

Tell him and everyone that who you are is not between your legs :B


reeeeeeeelevantly Jon walked up to me the other day and went 'so do you wanna be my brother or my sister.' Soup rise! I told him honestly and he was just like 'k' and walked off. I was like ... what


ALSO i am really lonely. I am always complaining about this. I want a relationship for fucks sake.


----------



## Bluberry Bat

Spaekle Oddberry said:


> Oh, children, and their need to have everything fit into a simple little box that their simple little minds can feel comfortable with. The most intolerant people I've ever seen of straying from gender norms have been kids. Which is probably among the myriad of reasons why I hate them so much.


Really?...
I see children as the most open, flexible people on the planet. Their minds may be simple, but they're in the process of forming their boundaries. They don't think that way because it's just their thought process; they do because that's what they perceive as correct from the influence around them. Children learn by mimicry remember, if parents are adamantly opposed to gender norms so too will their children. The problem is that with the new-wave of LGBT openness parents who oppose are spreading it to their young children.
Nonetheless, they're highly prone to influence. You could just as easily try and override your parents input in your brother if you did it correctly; see if you can get him to start questioning them. Kids are the opposite of a simple closed box, they're open to everything before it closes. It may or may not become irrelevant when they become more self-aware, but for the time being I would keep it in mind.


----------



## spaekle

It might work on _other_ kids, but my brother isn't really open to new ideas. In fact, he's probably the most stubborn thing I've ever seen in my life. There's not really anything me, my parents, or anyone else can do once he gets an idea of how things are in his head. Logic doesn't work, and it eventually spirals into him not wanting to admit he's wrong and trying to drop the conversation. he's already got all the makings of a great conservative christian fundamentalist!

I wish I had _one_ open-minded person in my family. :\


----------



## octobr

today was. Awesome.

Went to the museum of science and industry in chicago with my mom -- mainly to see the harry potter exhibit they have (SUPER SWEET). We were waiting at the line-up spot for the HP exhibit and the guy (who put on this silly british accent, they all do) eyed my slytherin t-shirt and did this :| and approached my mom 'EXCUSE ME. I DON'T SUPPOSE HE USED DARK MAGIC TO DUPLICATE THESE HMMMM' and i was like ;3 no i r gud slytherin. Mom was wearing my dumbledore's army shirt and he told her to 'keep an eye on him.'

Later, in the soopr cute chick hatchery (bawww. side anecdote time: everyone was crowded around them and they were just chirping and wandering. I came over by the glass and they all ran to me eee) and one had _just hatched_ it was so cute and frazzled. Anyways, the egg pieces had a 2 marked on them -- a teenage girl said that to her mom and I told her that actually er all the eggs were marked 2. 'Hm,' she says to her mom. 'He says they're all marked two.'

I don't know why I was so thrilled by all that. I felt like captain ego boost. Especially since the sweet slytherin shirt I'm wearing is pretty tight fitting and booby enhancing. teeeehee.


----------



## Wyvern

Christmas is edging ever closer which means so is my chance to finally see my boyfriend in person <333

Also about kids, yes they're all idiots. I got called a grenade-head once O_o


----------



## Minish

Verne said:


> today was. Awesome.
> 
> Went to the museum of science and industry in chicago with my mom -- mainly to see the harry potter exhibit they have (SUPER SWEET). We were waiting at the line-up spot for the HP exhibit and the guy (who put on this silly british accent, they all do) eyed my slytherin t-shirt and did this :| and approached my mom 'EXCUSE ME. I DON'T SUPPOSE HE USED DARK MAGIC TO DUPLICATE THESE HMMMM' and i was like ;3 no i r gud slytherin. Mom was wearing my dumbledore's army shirt and he told her to 'keep an eye on him.'
> 
> Later, in the soopr cute chick hatchery (bawww. side anecdote time: everyone was crowded around them and they were just chirping and wandering. I came over by the glass and they all ran to me eee) and one had _just hatched_ it was so cute and frazzled. Anyways, the egg pieces had a 2 marked on them -- a teenage girl said that to her mom and I told her that actually er all the eggs were marked 2. 'Hm,' she says to her mom. 'He says they're all marked two.'
> 
> I don't know why I was so thrilled by all that. I felt like captain ego boost. Especially since the sweet slytherin shirt I'm wearing is pretty tight fitting and booby enhancing. teeeehee.


Awww man, Verne, I felt happy for you just reading it <3
Did your mum react okay after the keep-an-eye-on-him guy?


----------



## octobr

Oh yeah. Ever since my brother approached me I think she's given up on the whole MUST CORRECT PEOPLE'S PRONOUN USAGE thing so it's pretty sweet -- 'how old is he' (re field museum whoop) gets an answer of 'seventeen,' not 'she's seventeen.' She said she _wants_ to correct people but doesn't which is nice. She even calls me matt sometimes. 

Usually as a 'you aren't paying attention name.' 

Sarah. Sarah. _Sarah._ Matt get over here right now :|



[[BABBLES]]


----------



## Wyvern

Verne said:


> Oh yeah. Ever since my brother approached me I think she's given up on the whole MUST CORRECT PEOPLE'S PRONOUN USAGE thing so it's pretty sweet -- 'how old is he' (re field museum whoop) gets an answer of 'seventeen,' not 'she's seventeen.' She said she _wants_ to correct people but doesn't which is nice. She even calls me matt sometimes.
> 
> Usually as a 'you aren't paying attention name.'
> 
> Sarah. Sarah. _Sarah._ Matt get over here right now :|
> 
> 
> 
> [[BABBLES]]


It's always nice to have supportive parents ^_^

Even though I don't really know you at all, I'm happy for you ^_^


----------



## Dewgong

Verne said:


> Sarah. Sarah. _Sarah._ Matt get over here right now :|


heehee. also, reading everything you said made me smile a little. :>


----------



## Harlequin

tl;dr hello I am in France. Coming out to anyone is always really hard, and even worse with parents. Do what feels right and when it feels right.


----------



## Flazeah

I know this is a bit late, but those pride festival pictures look really cool, Salamander. I'd love to go to one. ; ; And it's awesome that your school had a float. Those ballons are amazing, too; they look like bunches of grapes or something. x3 Or just, you know, balloons. But they're awesome.



Wyvern said:


> Christmas is edging ever closer which means so is my chance to finally see my boyfriend in person <333


 :O Very cool.

 Uh. I get to see my crush on Wednesday, after two weeks on holiday? Heh. I hope she's missed me. It's likely she hasn't missed me much, but you know. I'd like to hug her, but I don't know her that well. I mean I know her reasonably well-ish but eh. Gah, I'm so shy about hugging people sometimes. I'm perfectly happy to accept a hug from someone I barely know but I'm hesitant about hugging someone I've known significantly, or sort of, for quite a while.

 Also, I love how short hair looks on girls, whether they look very feminine or not. I find it strange how some people are so hung up on the "girls should have long hair" thing when so many feminine-looking girls today have short hair. Surely that should help them realise that if a girl does want to look feminine, it's not necessary for her to have long hair. If those people think that girls should have long hair because they consider it feminine, that is.


----------



## Wyvern

Flazeah said:


> I know this is a bit late, but those pride festival pictures look really cool, Salamander. I'd love to go to one. ; ; And it's awesome that your school had a float. Those ballons are amazing, too; they look like bunches of grapes or something. x3 Or just, you know, balloons. But they're awesome.
> 
> 
> 
> :O Very cool.
> 
> Uh. I get to see my crush on Wednesday, after two weeks on holiday? Heh. I hope she's missed me. It's likely she hasn't missed me much, but you know. I'd like to hug her, but I don't know her that well. I mean I know her reasonably well-ish but eh. Gah, I'm so shy about hugging people sometimes. I'm perfectly happy to accept a hug from someone I barely know but I'm hesitant about hugging someone I've known significantly, or sort of, for quite a while.
> 
> Also, I love how short hair looks on girls, whether they look very feminine or not. I find it strange how some people are so hung up on the "girls should have long hair" thing when so many feminine-looking girls today have short hair. Surely that should help them realise that if a girl does want to look feminine, it's not necessary for her to have long hair. If those people think that girls should have long hair because they consider it feminine, that is.


Many females have short hair these days. I believe the actor Diane Keaton has short hair and she still looks quite feminine o.o


----------



## Flazeah

Yes, that's what I was saying. :O Short-haired girls can still look feminine. Although I might have said it in a confusing way, sorry. Ehe.


----------



## Wyvern

Yeah, I got it. I was just making a point with a famous person o.o

So I'm guessing you're bi/lesbian?


----------



## Flazeah

Oh, oops, sorry. x3; I thought because you used the o.o smiley, you were confused about my point. Never mind.

 Yarp, I'm a gay girl. :B I see from your signature you're bi. Uh. High five! *grins*


----------



## Wyvern

Why yes I am xP

And yeah, I tend to use o.o a lot even when it's unnecessary o.o

*hi 5* Hooray for gay <3


----------



## Vladimir Putin's LJ

I'm gonna see the Gay Icons expo in London later this month and I'm pretty pumped. Does anyone else ever go see these things or am the only one who likes this kind of faggy stuff?

I'm glad you'll be seeing your boyfriend, Wyvern, and you your crush, Flazeah (today wasn't it? I never now whether my calendar's a day off or not). I understand your hugging issue perfectly, though I've never been in a situation like that myself since all my crushes so-far have been older guys and they (thankfully?) aren't very interested in hugging me. Girls are often a lot more open to hugging, even if the other person isn't a very close friend, so with some courage and a bit of naturality it shouldn't be too hard.

And yeah, coming out's pretty hard, as you said, Harle. The only time I ever mentioned my feelings to a friend he never talked to me properly again. I haven't told anyone since.


----------



## Wyvern

That's what the club's here for I guess.

Though I feel so lucky since all of my friends, even a homophobe, accept me.

*pours us all some champagne with a strawberry on top* I'd like to propose a toast...

*To acceptance and equality!!*

*I love you all <3*​


----------



## octobr

And now we all get totally drunk and have a great orgy.


THIS IS WHY QUEERDOM IS AWESOME. Anyway. 

Hurr I tried to have a crush the other day. Really! I did! She was hot. Dark hair and almost asian face and freckles all over. Cept I was like 'wtf, how can I have a crush on someone I don't know at all' and my brain was like fuck this shit yo.

Maybe one day I'll be normal ... ;'( hurr


----------



## Flazeah

Nah, VPLJ, it's tomorrow. Today's Tuesday, at least here. I thought it was Tuesday, but you made me doubt it. >.< So I asked my mum; the reliable approach. And it is. But thanks for your gladness! And yeah, you're right... however, I feel a bit more shy about hugging her because she's in her twenties. Or at least I'm guessing; I've never asked her her age.

 Hey, Verne, I met someone like that on holiday. Except she didn't have many freckles, although she might have had some on her nose. She was a New Zealander who looked a tiny bit like someone from Japan or something, only a lot more tanned, probably, than the average Japanese person. She was pretty, anyway.


----------



## Wyvern

Verne said:


> And now we all get totally drunk and have a great orgy.
> 
> 
> THIS IS WHY QUEERDOM IS AWESOME. Anyway.
> 
> Hurr I tried to have a crush the other day. Really! I did! She was hot. Dark hair and almost asian face and freckles all over. Cept I was like 'wtf, how can I have a crush on someone I don't know at all' and my brain was like fuck this shit yo.
> 
> Maybe one day I'll be normal ... ;'( hurr


A great orgy would be nice ^_^

I'll also admit that I have a small crush on *ahem* Dwagie ._.


----------



## surskitty

One of my friends recently was like "btw I'm bi" and I was like "... 'kay." "yeah I figured that'd be reaction" "yeah that was pretty obvious wasn't it"


also I have lately been trying to get my cousin to stop calling things gay as an insult.  I am not sure how it's working.


----------



## Harlequin

Vladimir Putin's LJ said:


> I'm gonna see the Gay Icons expo in London later this month and I'm pretty pumped. Does anyone else ever go see these things or am the only one who likes this kind of faggy stuff?
> 
> I'm glad you'll be seeing your boyfriend, Wyvern, and you your crush, Flazeah (today wasn't it? I never now whether my calendar's a day off or not). I understand your hugging issue perfectly, though I've never been in a situation like that myself since all my crushes so-far have been older guys and they (thankfully?) aren't very interested in hugging me. Girls are often a lot more open to hugging, even if the other person isn't a very close friend, so with some courage and a bit of naturality it shouldn't be too hard.
> 
> And yeah, coming out's pretty hard, as you said, Harle. The only time I ever mentioned my feelings to a friend he never talked to me properly again. I haven't told anyone since.


I don't tend to go to these things but tbf I am très lazy. Also, Verfeil sur Seye is a deadzone for gays. Also, not everyone is a cunt re: lgbt. So one day etc! also I just saw a russian so I have to leave.


----------



## Alexi

re: long hair: I've seen girls with long hair that look pretty damn masculine. 

Yeah, that had nothing to do with the convo at hand, whatev.


----------



## Alexi

Holy fuckballs. I came out to my parents as bi and they accepted it. o_o they said they don't agree with it, but it's up to me to make my own decisions and live how I want.


I...I...


I'm so relieved. That's so mind-blowing to me that I don't even know what to think. All my life I've just heard them say terrible things about gay people. I never thought they would actually accept me. It's crazy, but I guess that's life.


----------



## Minish

That's great, Alexi! God it's awesome when parents are open-minded. ^_^

My mum's recently becoming more accepting of me herself. Like, she won't ever bring the topic up even though she's probably curious, she just sort of breezes over the topic when I do (by bringing up the topic I mean, like, "Can I go to the nearby LGBT Pride please?").

PLUS I saw a lovely black-and-rainbow jacket in a shop the other day, totally fell in love with it, and my mum was really happy for me and got it saying she'd get it as a gift. And there was the underlying "Since rainbows are like... LGBT... and you're like... LGBT too". So even if she isn't willing to talk about it, at least she's okay with it.

tl;dr: YAY! :D More parent acceptance.

Also woohoo I have developed the third crush in my entire life and the first crush since I was about ten go me. I thought I just never had crushes. Well, if you don't count the three girls I watch obsessively because they are just that damn gorgeous (I don't know them, so yeah. I wouldn't call that a crush myself). So yay. Except that she's my best friend, I fell out with her recently, and she doesn't like me/'doesn't date in high school'. DX

Ah well.
Hopefully, there will be someone in sixth form, from the girls' school, I can get with~~


----------



## Wyvern

Congrats Alexi ^____^

I call a party =D

Also about crushes, did I ever mention who I had a crush on? I'm not sure if I did but I think I have on the previous pages o.o


----------



## Dewgong

hung out with my ex-girlfriend today in hopes that she'd either a. take me back b. be somewhat nicer to me that she was or c. we'd just have a good time.

...i bought her food and a drink at this bakery place (all of my money, got nothing for myself, btw) and then she ditched me to go to her other friends house.

whoopie now i know why i hate people.


----------



## Jolty

good on you Alexi :D
not so good for you though Dewgong :( maybe she's not worth it if she doesn't appreciate things you do for her


my town had a gay pride march thingy today but I wasn't able to go for several reasons raaaarrgghh
2 of my friends went though and they had a great time so yay


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## octobr

I'm going to school as matt today, I think.


----------



## octobr

I did it. People are making fun of me sure but. They can suck my cock.


----------



## Wyvern

Verne said:


> I did it. People are making fun of me sure but. They can suck my cock.


That's the way! Who cares what other people think, as long as you're happy ^_^

Just to make things completely clear to my extremely feeble mind, you're transitioning from female to male, right?

Either way, I call cheers for Matt! =D


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## octobr

Yeah, I don't think Antioch quite gets the whole transitioning thing but I'll take what I can damn get sooo


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## Wyvern

Verne said:


> Yeah, I don't think Antioch quite gets the whole transitioning thing but I'll take what I can damn get sooo


Ah, ok. I'm sure I speak for everyone when I say I'm happy for ya ^____^


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## octobr

I'm already getting a lot of crap for it but I knew I would ... I don't know that I care. so.


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## Dewgong

mattttty~


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## Dannichu

Vladimir Putin's LJ said:


> I'm gonna see the Gay Icons expo in London later this month and I'm pretty pumped. Does anyone else ever go see these things or am the only one who likes this kind of faggy stuff?


I'm heading up to London for a few (4? 5?) days tomorrow and am planning to go see it at some point; when're you going?

All the cool coming-out stories are making me all warm and fuzzy. I feel a bit pathetic for being able to host a gay musicals night (Rocky Horror, Rent, etc - it was awesome and you all should have been there) and not actually be out.

On the other hand, I had a fun conversation with my sister in which she was telling me how I should go out with a female friend of mine. Of course, this is the same sister that identifies as straight but unashamedly has two women on her "5 celebrities I'd sleep with" list. We also keep having arguments about whether or not [famous woman X] is attractive (she totally doesn't get my Amber Benson crush). 
My also self-proclaimed straight best friend does unquestioningly appreciate my celebrity girlcrushes, is the one taking me to the gay icons exhibition and has a friend she calls her girlfriend, only they don't have sex, but flirt pretty much non-stop and write a bizzare amount of (mostly guyxguy) porn together. 
I think my point here is that it's very hard to be gay when all my straight friends are being gayer than me. I need a girlfriend ):


----------



## octobr

Good God I'm lonely and mad at my body. Just saying.


----------



## Dewgong

:(


----------



## Bluberry Bat

Verne said:


> Good God I'm lonely and mad at my body. Just saying.


Would like to echo this actually ugh. I even started electrolysis a while back back have had to stop because of money and shaving is fucking terrible and I hate this shadow and ugh ugh ugh. Know what else costs money flying the hell out of America and seeing the person I love and I don't even want to think about how I'm going to get through customs and security with the wrong gender on my passport. The US is so godamn behind every other country in the world it's sickening I hate this place and I want to leave but it's like impossible and I'd rather be offed by authorities or live in a cardboard box in London than stay here any longer. England now has other gender options I've heard from a friend, America has two and you don't get to choose ffffffffffffffff.
And godamn parents feel the need to mock and berate me and drone on about how they "Dislike my lifestyle" but still insist how much they love me. And they only time the use the proper pronoun is when I ask them to and they usually yell and scream then about how they're "Trying". Then my dad goes and calls some guy and explains how he has "A son with Tourettes"
while seemingly bragging about the issues he's gone through in life and even though he caught himself now some prick is like OH I'D LIKE TO MEET HIM and I'm going to have to go through a charade over why his "Son" has tied back hair with a flowery tie and a skirt.

Though speaking of that I'm completely considering going to a big event tomorrow decked out properly. I still haven't had to nerve to wear anything past "Girly androgonous" outside the house and it would really be a blow to my parents which is always nice. Only thing stopping me will probably be the MASSIVE HEAT and total boredom but it would be a statement maaaaan.


----------



## surskitty

Get a skirt.  A short skirt.

... you didn't hear this from me.  [hates wearing skirts unless they're ankle-length and she STILL wears pants under them always]


----------



## Dewgong

yes, get a skirt~


----------



## Wyvern

L'il Dwagie said:


> Would like to echo this actually ugh. I even started electrolysis a while back back have had to stop because of money and shaving is fucking terrible and I hate this shadow and ugh ugh ugh. Know what else costs money flying the hell out of America and seeing the person I love and I don't even want to think about how I'm going to get through customs and security with the wrong gender on my passport. The US is so godamn behind every other country in the world it's sickening I hate this place and I want to leave but it's like impossible and I'd rather be offed by authorities or live in a cardboard box in London than stay here any longer. England now has other gender options I've heard from a friend, America has two and you don't get to choose ffffffffffffffff.
> And godamn parents feel the need to mock and berate me and drone on about how they "Dislike my lifestyle" but still insist how much they love me. And they only time the use the proper pronoun is when I ask them to and they usually yell and scream then about how they're "Trying". Then my dad goes and calls some guy and explains how he has "A son with Tourettes"
> while seemingly bragging about the issues he's gone through in life and even though he caught himself now some prick is like OH I'D LIKE TO MEET HIM and I'm going to have to go through a charade over why his "Son" has tied back hair with a flowery tie and a skirt.
> 
> Though speaking of that I'm completely considering going to a big event tomorrow decked out properly. I still haven't had to nerve to wear anything past "Girly androgonous" outside the house and it would really be a blow to my parents which is always nice. Only thing stopping me will probably be the MASSIVE HEAT and total boredom but it would be a statement maaaaan.


That's it, I'm killing your father. I have Tourette's and it's no damn joke >_>

Also DO EET!! Anything to piss off that ******* dad of yours.


----------



## octobr

L'il Dwagie said:


> Would like to echo this actually ugh. I even started electrolysis a while back back have had to stop because of money and shaving is fucking terrible and I hate this shadow and ugh ugh ugh.


first off fuck you for actually doing _anything_. Sometimes age is the worst thing because being only seventeen is limiting beyond belief, I have to worry about _everyone else's opinion_ cause my town is fuckin tiny and I don't really want to be mocked like fuck. A little teasing is all right but seriously. But then it's like look down and oh surprise have some bits that don't belong and all the reasons against starting an actual transition fly out the window. 



> Know what else costs money flying the hell out of America and seeing the person I love and I don't even want to think about how I'm going to get through customs and security with the wrong gender on my passport. The US is so godamn behind every other country in the world it's sickening I hate this place and I want to leave but it's like impossible and I'd rather be offed by authorities or live in a cardboard box in London than stay here any longer. England now has other gender options I've heard from a friend, America has two and you don't get to choose ffffffffffffffff.


fuckin fuck I hate this country. Just saying. More like a. cuntry. ohhh



> And godamn parents feel the need to mock and berate me and drone on about how they "Dislike my lifestyle" but still insist how much they love me. And they only time the use the proper pronoun is when I ask them to and they usually yell and scream then about how they're "Trying". Then my dad goes and calls some guy and explains how he has "A son with Tourettes"
> while seemingly bragging about the issues he's gone through in life and even though he caught himself now some prick is like OH I'D LIKE TO MEET HIM and I'm going to have to go through a charade over why his "Son" has tied back hair with a flowery tie and a skirt.
> 
> Though speaking of that I'm completely considering going to a big event tomorrow decked out properly. I still haven't had to nerve to wear anything past "Girly androgonous" outside the house and it would really be a blow to my parents which is always nice. Only thing stopping me will probably be the MASSIVE HEAT and total boredom but it would be a statement maaaaan.


god what a fuckin prick. Go find some great heels and kick him in the face with them. Alternatively strap a knife to the heel but you know

parents are so hard to deal with because :/ in a way you don't want to _disappoint_ them or anything, you don't want them to hate you or whatever but you also need to have these changes made and how the fuck are you supposed to express to your mom and dad that what's going on is past just _wanting_ to be the other gender? I mean jesus. My mom and counselor obviously disapprove of me going to school as Matt -- I mean, they both were all 'oh man you're gonna get teased and you should have waited till college and' and I get that. I know that everyone says to wait until college, Mom, I read more books on this shit than you do and guess what I'm sort of _living it._ 

But at the same time a year until college can seem really damn long. 

But how do I express that I'm not just asking to be called Matt because I feel like it? that's the worst part about being trans you can't put what you feel into words because it's purely fucking emotion and that mucks up life so much. It's not like we feel like making life difficult for ourselves. And that's ... really hard for everyone else to understand. 



all my dreams lately have my hair long. Like it's been neglected. I don't get it.


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## Bluberry Bat

Sigh... I didn't mean to kind of highjack your post Verne by the way I just needed a ramble again.. x-x

But first thing really fuck all what anyone thinks and just do what you think is right you're the one dealing with it not them. I'm 19 keep in mind and I've been working at this for only a couple years and I wish like you wouldn't believe I had done something sooner. People can be disowned down the line, if they don't like -you- but only the husk you were born into then fuck them. 
Oh and cuntry is Meowth dats RITE!!.... Yeah.

Also to be honest my parents don't mean a hell of a lot to me anymore, I'm already their super special little disappointment. They're supposed to love their kid regardless. So fuck them too. I figured of ALL people they would understand, not to mention not think I'm just going through some phase or faking or just bloody well got bored of my name one day~~ It truly is impossible to express to them it seems. No matter what they can't shake that "Why would you want to go through that" mindset. Well...
But you know just as well that whole ordeal.
But don't wait until university. Just do it. I flunked nearly everything because I had my own personal meltdowns over it all. And maybe that's just me but I could not handle being there, like THAT. It isn't worth waiting.

I don't get people. Really. Why is it so hard to understand. Wrong body, that's it, even the biggest of idiots and bigots can understand that when square block does not fit into round hole you find one the it does. Even if it takes a few years and hollow echoing wood being pounded together for it to click for some. But it's impossible. (And holy hell that sounds like innuendo; it isn't) Hell my parents insist it's been a year since I've told them. Which I guess is more promising than their previous 6 months estimation since it's been THREE years.

Bleeeeh... brb finding heels to stab my dad in the -face- with. Or maybe just a knife. Heels are ugly uncomfortable and ick bleck who made them the formal standard for women they should have to wear them every day and then be stabbed in the jiblets, anyway I'll take my purple slip-ons thanks <3



Also it's strange, My dreams shift, sometimes I'm androgonous; I can't tell my own gender, I don't notice my hair or anything... Sometimes I'm in a male form, of course always feeling like shit then, and sometimes I'm in a female form which is strange since I don't have the exact knowledge of the feeling but my mind manages to simulate it I suppose. And sometimes for kicks I have one of those wake-up-right-before-a-goal type dreams after going through a charade to somehow swap genders hurrrrr thanks mind.

My dreams have been getting more and more out-there but also detailed and long for awhile now, I swear sometimes they seem like condensed years passed. I can't tell if they're trying to tell me something or just fucking with me. :| Maybe that's just the trans mind hurrah~


----------



## spaekle

All of you who are going for it as far as gender presentation goes, good luck to you! I really wish I could be doing that too, but school full of rednecks, parents, et cetera. I think I can last another year, at least. :\ I suppose you're bound to get shit for it no matter what, but since the college I'm looking at is in a pretty LGBT-friendly-city...

I plan on experimenting more in college. I'm pretty sure I'm trans considering my complete inability to see myself as female and my frustration with people who do see me that way; but I don't know, I might be able to pull off living genderqueer or ambiguous. There's also the whole transgendered vs. transsexual thing; I've just got to get myself sorted out. :| It seems to rely a lot on hormones. Sometimes I'm like "being ambiguous is groovy :V" but then other times I'm like "can I rip my boobs off, seriously?". Aargh.

In most of my dreams I'm either a bodyless, ambiguous blob or appear exactly as I am. 

I had a friend call me Oliver in a MySpace comment the other day. It wasn't that big of a deal, but it made me smile.

On the subject of hair, I'm getting a haircut today! I'm not going too short, but it's amazing how much having my hair shorter helps. Funny thing; my mom IMed me a suggestion for a hairstyle, and it was the exact image I'd already decided on. She then claimed to know me better than I thought she did; that's either awesome or worrying.


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## octobr

It's totally fine I did that to your post too dwagie :B sometimes all we need is a rant


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## DonKarasuMan

Request to join.


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## Wyvern

DonKarasuMan said:


> Request to join.



Hello ^_^

What's your letter? L, G, B or T? o.o


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## Keltena

Wyvern said:


> Hello ^_^
> 
> What's your letter? L, G, B or T? o.o


Or A, P, Q, whatever... ;D


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## Wyvern

Salamander said:


> Or A, P, Q, whatever... ;D


Indubitably old chap *smokes pipe*


----------



## ultraviolet

did I join this club? I don't think I did. Can I? :o
Well I'm bisexual (I _think_; I haven't had any experiencies with women but I think I'd enjoy it) and I have my boyfriend who's bisexual and we're just discovering ourselves for now. :o He asked me if I would be okay with him 'experimenting' with other men and I said that was fine (I only want him to be happy, after all), and I can do that with the ladies if I like, but I'm too shy to actually go and do anything so I'm not really sure exactly what to do so erm
we have a really cool relationship and it's great <3 
I haven't told my parents that I am bisexual (last time I mentioned it my mum was like 'it's a stage') but I don't really want to that much. :/ I don't think it's really important that they know who I have sex with, considering they don't want to know and I don't want to tell them. 
for a while I felt like I wanted to be male, but I don't think so much about it now so I'm not really sure. :/ I haven't really figured out myself that way yet, all I really think right now is that I'd enjoy stuff more sexually from a male perspective. I particularly enjoy the idea of having male parts and I don't really know why so
So I'm just confused a little is all. I know that's not nearly so horrible as other people trying to be themselves and they can't, and I think that's the saddest thing in the world. :c


----------



## Vladimir Putin's LJ

Dannichu said:


> I'm heading up to London for a few (4? 5?) days tomorrow and am planning to go see it at some point; when're you going?


Er, sorry I took a long time, don't know whether you'll be able to read this but I'll going tomorrow morning and coming back Wednesday evening. We'll be at the expo tomorrow around midday. ALL LONDONERS WELCOME FOR A MEET&GREET wiv my parents. Hi guys.

So my mother will be giving me a credit card sometime this week, one of her own since the bank won't give cards to minors, and even though she'll be getting the bill at the end of the month I'm gonna be able to finally get a binder or two, on top of the comics and shirts I'll be buying, obviously :v this, coupled with the fact that I'll be getting an early-Beatles era Lennon hairstyle at the end of the month, is cause for celebration on my part.

Just bringing my bit to the T conversations, I guess.


----------



## octobr

yeah bitches transfaggots are ownin this joint

Today I proved my awesome hormone prowess in Anatomy. Cause I was all 'ovaries why' and he was all 'so you don't have estrogen floatin' around' and this kid was like WHAT IF A GUY HAD OVARIES WOULD HE GET A VAGINA and by my anatomy teacher's and my powers combined yeah


except I got a kind of anti-trans vibe from him. Well more like an uneducated vibe... whatever.


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## Bluberry Bat

Yeayuz future Biology careers for the lot of us.
I don't know if it's amusing or frustrating and saddening seeing how little people know about this sort of thing now that I've become a total BioFag and can tell everyone how their jibblies work and why and totally scare them away from me arh ha ha ha ha.
(No seriously if Estrogen = Free Vagina and vice versa there wouldn't be a -problem- now would there be we'd be all over that shit and noone would have to know >: )


----------



## Vladimir Putin's LJ

Oh god getting the right junk just from taking hormones would own so hard. Fuck you body, why couldn't you have thought of this method.


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## Dannichu

College/uni is such a cool place to actually be yourself without, in my experience, any judgement. I'm not sure how different it is in the US than the UK, nor how widely transexuality is accepted compared to homo- or bisexuality, but uni students are way more accepting than the general population, and the fact that stuff like LGBT clubs and the like exist means that you'll be able to meet at least some people to talk to about things.

No promises, but I'll try and be there around midday tomorrow, then :)


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## octobr

Hey. HEY HUMAN BEINGS. Be more sequentially hermaphroditic, faggots. 



The whole college thing is what I'm holding out for Danni. Or well not holding out for but certainly excited for. Everyone keeps telling me it'll be awesome for me cause I HAAAAAAATE high school whoo


----------



## Wyvern

ultraviolet said:


> did I join this club? I don't think I did. Can I? :o
> Well I'm bisexual (I _think_; I haven't had any experiencies with women but I think I'd enjoy it) and I have my boyfriend who's bisexual and we're just discovering ourselves for now. :o He asked me if I would be okay with him 'experimenting' with other men and I said that was fine (I only want him to be happy, after all), and I can do that with the ladies if I like, but I'm too shy to actually go and do anything so I'm not really sure exactly what to do so erm
> we have a really cool relationship and it's great <3
> I haven't told my parents that I am bisexual (last time I mentioned it my mum was like 'it's a stage') but I don't really want to that much. :/ I don't think it's really important that they know who I have sex with, considering they don't want to know and I don't want to tell them.
> for a while I felt like I wanted to be male, but I don't think so much about it now so I'm not really sure. :/ I haven't really figured out myself that way yet, all I really think right now is that I'd enjoy stuff more sexually from a male perspective. I particularly enjoy the idea of having male parts and I don't really know why so
> So I'm just confused a little is all. I know that's not nearly so horrible as other people trying to be themselves and they can't, and I think that's the saddest thing in the world. :c


My mum said exactly the same thing "It's just a phase you're going through". They reeeally don't understand xD

Then again, she says I need experience and I'm NOT telling her I've had the man-parts of 4 guys in my mouth ._.

P.S. This was before my boyfriend and I'm getting tested soon before he comes over. How I'll get tested without mum finding out is another question...*googles it* xD


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## ultraviolet

^ say you're going to a friends house, go to the doctor instead? Legally they can't tell your mum anything.


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## Jolty

"IT'S ONLY A PHASE" does my head in rrrrgh
it's a phase for bloody scene kids because it's so trendy to be queer woooooyay

I should post in here more

recently I've been thinking bout stuff and I've kinda realised that I see myself as both genders in a way... dunno how to explain it really
my dad's even reffered to me as a lad recently lmao


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## octobr

Yeah fairly certain you can be tested confidentially. Otherwise teesn would _never_ do it. 


jolty a bit genderqueer/androgynous? one or the other


oh god I just watched ultraviolet's sig for like five minutes crap


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## ultraviolet

> oh god I just watched ultraviolet's sig for like five minutes crap


then my job here is done. \o/

no actually I wanted to share this cool website with you guys. I know it kind of looks like a girl's magazine or something but it's actually got some really excellent advice (it's run by a few doctors and some psychologists I think) and it links to all these great organisations and stuff. :| Scroll to the bottom and search something, they have articles on pretty much everything (long ones, too).


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## spaekle

Yay, my hair is cut!

I hate how it's all alt and trendy and shit to be bi or queer or something. It's certainly not helping the cases of people who _aren't_ just going through a phase.

Edit: Holy crap, a sex ed website for teenagers that actually distinguishes between sex and gender. I am impressed.


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## DonKarasuMan

Wyvern said:


> Hello ^_^
> 
> What's your letter? L, G, B or T? o.o


...g.

What's Q?


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## Wyvern

DonKarasuMan said:


> ...g.
> 
> What's Q?


Q I believe is queer, maybe for metrosexuals?

Also welcome to the club ^_^ Good to see another one of us :P


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## octobr

Queer is just a general term for anyone who doesn't fit within any of the terms or the normal sexual binary.


"meet your prostrate" Tell me I'm not the only one who imagined a tf2-style Meet the ____ video


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## Minish

Queer's just an umbrella term, like LGBT. Which is why I like LGBTQ instead because it's less WHICH ONE ARE YOU. Personally I prefer just saying I'm queer than anything else, makes things simpler in my head. AND it's an awesome word. <3

That Scarleteen site is awesome. Wow, actually down-to-earth sex ed. This is what schools need.


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## Wyvern

Cirrus said:


> Queer's just an umbrella term, like LGBT. Which is why I like LGBTQ instead because it's less WHICH ONE ARE YOU. Personally I prefer just saying I'm queer than anything else, makes things simpler in my head. AND it's an awesome word. <3
> 
> That Scarleteen site is awesome. Wow, actually down-to-earth sex ed. This is what schools need.


Indeed. All I learned in sex ed was "Pl0X USE CONDOM =D"


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## Minish

I didn't learn ANYTHING in sex ed. o_O

Wow, I'm learning so much from this site. XD


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## Keltena

I meant 'Q' for 'questioning', but that works too.

*actually learned stuff in sex ed =O*


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## spaekle

All I remember from my sex ed was "boys get erections and girls get periods; now let's talk about how bad STD's/pregnancy are but not really say much about how to prevent them beyond holding up the packaging for various methods. Emphasis on abstinence, etc"


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## Bluberry Bat

I never had a Sex Ed. course. :> Do I win?



Also that Scarleteen website is really good by the looks of it. Sex =/= Gender and all that but the articles are just well done and with -proper- and -full- information.


----------



## Wyvern

Spaekle Oddberry said:


> All I remember from my sex ed was "boys get erections and girls get periods; now let's talk about how bad STD's/pregnancy are but not really say much about how to prevent them beyond holding up the packaging for various methods. Emphasis on abstinence, etc"


We had to put a condom on 3 of our fingers. One guy put one over his whole hand XD


----------



## octobr

This is how you fist boys and girls.


----------



## ultraviolet

Sex Ed: This is what Herpes looks like, kids! (shows slide) also we had to put condoms on carrots. Then everyone was given a type of contraceptive to look at (dental dams, pills, condoms etc) and talk about, and then we did diagrams of everyone's parts and stuff. We did have the teachers kind of lean on 'you guys are fourteen, sex at fourteen is probably a bad idea but you know, we can't stop you' but apart from that it was pretty good. Although a year before that the girls watched a video of a woman giving birth. :x
Australia has pretty good sex ed, methinks. c:


----------



## DonKarasuMan

Oh we had quite a sex ed course. I'm not sure whether if the syllabus could've extended beyond STIs and contraception (though, apparently, we were never trusted to play with sample condoms), though it could've covered a bit about 'psychological gender' (nothing outside of heterosexuality) in addition to all the physical stuff we learnt about.

So yeah.


----------



## octobr

We never got to even see a condom. Yeah. So my first experience with a condom was when the dog gleefully brought us a used one out of Jon's room.
nightmares, guys, nightmares.


----------



## Minish

Verne said:


> We never got to even see a condom. Yeah. So my first experience with a condom was when the dog gleefully brought us a used one out of Jon's room.
> nightmares, guys, nightmares.


.___. Ouch.

I remember vaguely some guy showing us a sample penis. Except that it was massive, quite creepy and was completely upwards so that showing us how to put on a condom was easier for him.

It certainly didn't make me any straighter...


----------



## Wyvern

Oh the penis they showed us was a banana. A plastic banana that peeled back to reveal a penis O_o


----------



## Jolty

we got the same sex ed class ever year
for 5 years
which included the same blue plastic penis a handful of people were picked to put condoms onto

also that scarleteen website is great


----------



## octobr

Wyvern said:


> Oh the penis they showed us was a banana. A plastic banana that peeled back to reveal a penis O_o


wh--

what?


What?


----------



## Minish

Wyvern said:


> Oh the penis they showed us was a banana. A plastic banana that peeled back to reveal a penis O_o


Disturbing by all measures


----------



## Zhorken

I think you mean _fantastic_ by all measures!

The sex ed I got varied a lot.  In grade four (age nine) we learned a few things from a biological angle; in grades five and six, our sex ed covered the right things, but it was taught very, very patronizingly as if we were _supposed_ to be embarrassed about everything; in grades seven and eight, it was abstinence-only, complete with scare tactics (and they preached abstinence until age twenty-seven, at that); in grade nine, what we did get was okay, but we learned nothing about girls.

EDIT: We also never quite touched the topic of actual sex; we were very carefully taught about safe sex some years, but it was never anything further than "a condom goes on a penis" without daring to mention where a penis might go.  So we never discussed homosexuality or anything, I guess, but we never explicitly discussed heterosexuality, either.  (Not that that's any better.)
EDIT2: Oh hahaha wait, my seventh-grade teacher gave us a "never try anal sex or oral sex or anything _weird_ because they're _disgusting_" speech one day after the abstinence lecturer left.


----------



## Wyvern

Zhorken said:


> I think you mean _fantastic_ by all measures!
> 
> The sex ed I got varied a lot.  In grade four (age nine) we learned a few things from a biological angle; in grades five and six, our sex ed covered the right things, but it was taught very, very patronizingly as if we were _supposed_ to be embarrassed about everything; in grades seven and eight, it was abstinence-only, complete with scare tactics (and they preached abstinence until age twenty-seven, at that); in grade nine, what we did get was okay, but we learned nothing about girls.
> 
> EDIT: We also never quite touched the topic of actual sex; we were very carefully taught about safe sex some years, but it was never anything further than "a condom goes on a penis" without daring to mention where a penis might go.  So we never discussed homosexuality or anything, I guess, but we never explicitly discussed heterosexuality, either.  (Not that that's any better.)
> EDIT2: Oh hahaha wait, my seventh-grade teacher gave us a "never try anal sex or oral sex or anything _weird_ because they're _disgusting_" speech one day after the abstinence lecturer left.


Oral sex sounds cleaner than normal heterosex in my mind.

Then again, I've sucked on one before and it's daaaamn good xD


----------



## ultraviolet

> Oral sex sounds cleaner than normal heterosex in my mind.


That depends on a lot of things imo, but I don't think I could ever do anal sex. >.> Not particularly because it's 'dirty', just that I can't imagine having anything up my backside feeling good. :x


----------



## octobr

When Verne dictates world, sex ed will be as so:


Verne always tops.


----------



## Minish

Wyvern said:


> Oral sex sounds cleaner than normal heterosex in my mind.
> 
> Then again, I've sucked on one before and it's daaaamn good xD


Oh god, oral sex sounds so disgusting to me. :/ Fellatio doesn't sound as bad though, but I'll never be doing that, so.

It sucks because nearly every other lesbian wants to do it. I'm only JUST coming around to the idea of anything else, except mutual masturbation, not sounding disgusting too. Bleh.


----------



## ultraviolet

mutual masturbation is lots of fun, but I know what you mean. I find cunnilingus gross, personally. :/


----------



## Bluberry Bat

I honestly think we're just trained to think genitals = dirty and dirty things in mouth = no no. Our mouths are pretty fucking dirty to begin with and if you're that worried you probably shouldn't be kissing either. Of course I have the same sort of feelings, it would be rather squicky and all that, but when it comes down to it it's just another part of the body and if you've kissed someone on the lips you're about as far as you can go. There are exceptions of course, see: one who doesn't bathe, but I'm going to assume noone here would associate with them anyway.

Now if you'll excuse me I'm off to eBay to find aforementioned banana peel penis.


----------



## Wyvern

L'il Dwagie said:


> I honestly think we're just trained to think genitals = dirty and dirty things in mouth = no no. Our mouths are pretty fucking dirty to begin with and if you're that worried you probably shouldn't be kissing either. Of course I have the same sort of feelings, it would be rather squicky and all that, but when it comes down to it it's just another part of the body and if you've kissed someone on the lips you're about as far as you can go. There are exceptions of course, see: one who doesn't bathe, but I'm going to assume noone here would associate with them anyway.
> 
> Now if you'll excuse me I'm off to eBay to find aforementioned banana peel penis.


I lol'd hard at that one xD

Sable's right, a dog's mouth is scientifically proven to be cleaner than a human's.


----------



## octobr

Dogs also have cuter mouths than humans do! It's a scientific fact.


----------



## ultraviolet

I don't think cunnilingus is gross because it's 'dirty' or anything, I mean that I think it _feels _gross. :x


----------



## Dewgong

BANANA PEEL PENIS

if you find one please show us, dwagie.


----------



## Harlequin

FACT: banana penis is amazing
SUPPOSITION: there are pictures and possibly videos somewhere on the Internet
MISSION: find them and bring them to me


----------



## Jolty

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/8225158.stm
saw this today
it made me happy


----------



## ultraviolet

Well that's good news :o

I wish australia would hurry up and _get with the program_ on lgbt rights


----------



## Minish

Jolty said:


> http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/8225158.stm
> saw this today
> it made me happy


YES. 

This person is an idiot:



> Conservative MP Nadine Dorries told the BBC that the move undermined the traditional family model.
> 
> She said: "If we want to build a stable society, a mother and father and children works as the best model.
> 
> "We should be striving towards repairing and reinforcing marriage. I think this move sends out the exact opposite message."


Not allowing it to pass isn't going to make lesbians marry men. There are still going to be the same number of straight couples helping along our 'stable society'. >_>


----------



## Wyvern

Cirrus said:


> YES.
> 
> This person is an idiot:
> 
> 
> 
> Not allowing it to pass isn't going to make lesbians marry men. There are still going to be the same number of straight couples helping along our 'stable society'. >_>


Politician, 'nuff said

Probably Christian too, the bastards


----------



## Almost Eric

Ahh that's amazing news. ;u;

And um. Hello, I'd like to join. *been trying to gather up the courage to ask to join for a couple of days now*


----------



## Jolty

If I become prime minister I'll make it so /anyone/ can have a marriage and /anyone/ can have a civil union

also I have to wonder, where the hell do we ever actually see the traditional family anymore? 
for example, on my street, we are one of only two houses to have 2 parental figures looking after kids. And my stepmum only moved here in February, over 8 years after my mum moved out.

One of my neighbours is about 20 and has 2 kids with 2 different fathers, neither of which I have ever seen in my life. She also looks after her younger brother and sister (ages 10 and 13 respectively) because their mum is the worst kind of drunk possible. The mum lives next door to us so we often get a right earful of the bollocks she causes :|
Most of the rest of this street is full of single parents with kids destined to get nowhere in life, and with drug dealers.

a stable society indeed

/ramble


----------



## Harlequin

Yeah I'm part of a traditional family. :( Mother, father, siblings... except er both my parents are divorced. 

Also at the bottom of my street there's a woman with six children by five different fathers!


----------



## Dannichu

> "We should be striving towards repairing and reinforcing marriage."


So let gays marry, you fool.



> Dr Peter Saunders, of the Christian Medical Fellowship, criticised the move, telling the Daily Mail that


HAHAHA sorry. I love the idea of all the Tories running to the DM to whinge about this.
(I feel awful for this, but when I find out someone I like/respect buys the Daily Mail, I get so sad and my opinion of them plummets)

I loathe the idea of "traditional families", particularly that they're regarded as The Ideal. I've known enough families that'd be better for the kids if the parents _did_ get a divorce, but they decided to "stay together for the kids", who'd probably be much happier and more well-adjusted if they didn't have to put up with constant fighting from the people who're supposed to be adult and in charge.

(I, uh, have issues)

And HI Almost Eric! Good to have you here :D


----------



## octobr

Wyvern said:


> Politician, 'nuff said
> 
> Probably Christian too, the bastards


Uh...


----------



## Dinru

Verne said:


> Uh...


I think he means the uncool kind of Christian. You're the cool, accepting kind 8)


----------



## Bluberry Bat

*Take desk, Forcefully insert head*
Le sigh, so I finally got to go out in proper clothing. Nothing too fancy, plain black skirt, long top in a blue-green, and normal everything else.
Parents, FLIPPED. I can't even fathom what goes through their minds to be such bigots. My dad starts making excuses (Did you all know that women don't wear dresses? Go figure! Learn something new every day, _Thanks dad_. ) and going on about how his "Son.. ex-son, is wearing a skirt" and how terrible that is, my mum going on about how I'm tearing the family apart. Holy crap, unbelievable. If I hadn't been going to a family therapist, one who actually suggested going like that, I'd have been kept at home no doubt. If I didn't jack their car that is.
I'm completely drained and can't believe... FUCK. FUCK FUCK FUCK. I hate them with an indescribable seething passion. I've got a migraine now and need to go lay down..


----------



## spaekle

Fuck your parents, L'il Dwagie. :( How the hell are you 'tearing the family apart' by living the way you want to? I really don't get people like that. I'm sorry. Hopefully you can get out of there soon?

I have a rant as well! 

So, I'm in my senior year of high school. I'm telling my parents to take the money they _could_ spend on prom and spend it on a laptop for college or something, so that's not a very big deal, but besides that there's a bunch of other "formal" shit involved in which I may end up having to dress up. I am not out yet, but I won't stand for being put in a dress. Last time I went out in a skirt I came home suicidal. :\  

I'm probably going to skip the formal yearbook picture if at all possible (if I don't wear what I'm supposed to, I don't see how they can _make_ me). So I guess all that's left is whatever senior photo my parents want me to take off school time and possibly graduation. Any advice on how to dress formal but still kind of gender-neutral?


----------



## Dinru

L'il Dwagie said:


> *Take desk, Forcefully insert head*
> Le sigh, so I finally got to go out in proper clothing. Nothing too fancy, plain black skirt, long top in a blue-green, and normal everything else.
> Parents, FLIPPED. I can't even fathom what goes through their minds to be such bigots. My dad starts making excuses (Did you all know that women don't wear dresses? Go figure! Learn something new every day, _Thanks dad_. ) and going on about how his "Son.. ex-son, is wearing a skirt" and how terrible that is, my mum going on about how I'm tearing the family apart. Holy crap, unbelievable. If I hadn't been going to a family therapist, one who actually suggested going like that, I'd have been kept at home no doubt. If I didn't jack their car that is.
> I'm completely drained and can't believe... FUCK. FUCK FUCK FUCK. I hate them with an indescribable seething passion. I've got a migraine now and need to go lay down..


gggGGGRRR. Guh I hate that. So much. So most girls don't wear dresses nowadays. So what. You want to wear dresses. I don't even see why having a penis makes it so sociably unacceptable to wear something that covers the genital area unless the legs are separated legs anyway, regardless of internal gender )<

And how can you be 'tearing the family apart'? I mean if it's _anyone's_ fault at all it's his for not giving you the right chromosomes right off the bat to begin with.



Spaekle Oddberry said:


> Fuck your parents, L'il Dwagie. :( How the hell are you 'tearing the family apart' by living the way you want to? I really don't get people like that. I'm sorry. Hopefully you can get out of there soon?
> 
> I have a rant as well!
> 
> So, I'm in my senior year of high school. I'm telling my parents to take the money they _could_ spend on prom and spend it on a laptop for college or something, so that's not a very big deal, but besides that there's a bunch of other "formal" shit involved in which I may end up having to dress up. I am not out yet, but I won't stand for being put in a dress. Last time I went out in a skirt I came home suicidal. :\
> 
> I'm probably going to skip the formal yearbook picture if at all possible (if I don't wear what I'm supposed to, I don't see how they can _make_ me). So I guess all that's left is whatever senior photo my parents want me to take off school time and possibly graduation. Any advice on how to dress formal but still kind of gender-neutral?


Prom: Tell your parents that you'd prefer a dress suit with pants so that you can dance easier? I mean it's better than nothing.
Graduation: Wear a formal shirt? Or like a nice t-shirt and no bra (if you have small boobs) or a smaller-than-your-cup-size sports bra if they're too big for that.


----------



## Jolty

If I go to the prom this year (I didn't go to the year 11 one lol) I am wearing a suit and that is that. Also my friend's invited me to go to a proper fancy Italian restaurant with him and a few other friends for his 18th and since it's fancy I'll probably wear something manly there too...
The only time I will EVER wear a dress is on my wedding day if I marry a guy.

Dwagie, your parents make me rage :( how long is it untill you can properly leave? and that bollocks about tearing the family apart what the hell. You're only doing it for yourself, how is it affecting anyone else???


Also today some random kid said "ARE YOU GAY" at me today. People round here do not use the word gay when referring to girls so I assume he thought I was a girly-looking dude. Hooray for being able to pass off as either gender lmao
MESSING WITH PEOPLE SHALL BE FUN


----------



## surskitty

I've been trying to walk less like a girl lately.

I'm not sure how well it's working.


----------



## octobr

Wear a woman's collared shirt. They can often be fairly gender neutral and also they are really soft and nice coo~

haha I'm writing a trans story. for the fucking pw kink meme. good god shoot me in the head


----------



## Wyvern

Take no heed to them Sable. You'll be in England before you know it ^_^

Also, I know someone who has 9 kids O_O


----------



## ultraviolet

> So, I'm in my senior year of high school. I'm telling my parents to take the money they _could_ spend on prom and spend it on a laptop for college or something, so that's not a very big deal, but besides that there's a bunch of other "formal" shit involved in which I may end up having to dress up. I am not out yet, but I won't stand for being put in a dress. Last time I went out in a skirt I came home suicidal. :\


You could probably get away with wearing nice black pants with a really nice top for the formal stuff, or you could wear a tux to your school ball. There were a few girls in my year who wanted to do that but they weren't allowed to because our senior school officer said 'girls wear dresses'. 
What is it about wearing dresses/skirts you don't like? You could always wear shorts underneath (no-one would know!). I'm curious, because I used to _loathe _skirts and dresses, too.


----------



## Minish

Spaekle Oddberry said:


> Fuck your parents, L'il Dwagie. :( How the hell are you 'tearing the family apart' by living the way you want to? I really don't get people like that. I'm sorry. Hopefully you can get out of there soon?
> 
> I have a rant as well!
> 
> So, I'm in my senior year of high school. I'm telling my parents to take the money they _could_ spend on prom and spend it on a laptop for college or something, so that's not a very big deal, but besides that there's a bunch of other "formal" shit involved in which I may end up having to dress up. I am not out yet, but I won't stand for being put in a dress. Last time I went out in a skirt I came home suicidal. :\
> 
> I'm probably going to skip the formal yearbook picture if at all possible (if I don't wear what I'm supposed to, I don't see how they can _make_ me). So I guess all that's left is whatever senior photo my parents want me to take off school time and possibly graduation. Any advice on how to dress formal but still kind of gender-neutral?


My female friend went in a woman's suit, and there were barely even any comments from other people. Considering I was expecting the teachers to tell her she couldn't wear one...

If your school is even slightly open-minded they won't care if a girl comes in a suit, it's unusual but not unheard of.


----------



## octobr

ultraviolet said:


> There were a few girls in my year who wanted to do that but they weren't allowed to because our senior school officer said 'girls wear dresses'.


DEAR SENIOR OFFICER EXPECT PUNCHES TO THE FACE LOVE VERNE


----------



## spaekle

ultraviolet said:


> What is it about wearing dresses/skirts you don't like? You could always wear shorts underneath (no-one would know!). I'm curious, because I used to _loathe _skirts and dresses, too.


I don't like it because, well, boys don't wear those things (in the eyes of most people), and I want people to look at me and see a boy. That's not something that happens on a daily basis anyway, but it's still way too uncomfortable for me to wear something so explicitly feminine. :\ There's not a good way I can describe it other than it _doesn't feel right_. 

Thanks; I'll see what I can get away with. I'm going to try to avoid most of those situations anyway. Definitely not going to prom.

I actually have a cisgendered female friend who went to prom in a men's tux; I don't think anyone said anything, although she had to try a few different suit shops before anyone would fit her for it. :\ ("I want a tux for prom." "Oh, for your boyfriend?" "No, for _me_." "lolwut")


----------



## Vladimir Putin's LJ

My stepdad gave me a suit of his but the shoulders are massive, obviously (he may just have broad shoulders though because both my dad's jacket and my Luftwaffe one fit me perfectly). But it's so awkward to try and buy one/get one tailor-made because people are all like 'uh'


----------



## Bluberry Bat

Society fucking sucks and is nothing but stereotypes. I don't even want to imagine trying to go in if/when I want to get fitted for a dress some time.
Ugh, my parents are acting like nothing happened now, which they should be because I thought I was making a statement like; Hey, I'm dressing how I want so get the fuck off my back.
Blah.. I don't know when I'm leaving either.. whenever I can but things keep getting so damned screwed over it's just..... ugh.
I don't think I've even answered everything I was meaning to or anything at all but state of mind is in flux right now so blah..


----------



## Dewgong

dwagie, your parents make me sad. i don't even know what to say, but over the months, reading all your posts, that must suck. so bad.

tell them i said be quiet. >:(


----------



## Wyvern

My mum's completely cool with it.

Oh, and I broke up with my boyfriend. We both thought it was for the best. We're still friends, so we're happy ^_^


----------



## octobr

Wait that actually happens?? I knew it! TV is all a lie. :|


----------



## Harlequin

I decided I don't like boys any more. They keep being _straight_. How _dare_ they!?


----------



## Jolty

ok so I've been talking with some of my friends about how I am confused about what my proper gender is
some of them seem to not take me seriously it's like "you have tits and a vagina, you're a woman"

way to miss the point !!

I'll just alternate between the two :( I don't really feel like a man or a woman... for longer than a day that is


----------



## surskitty

I feel mysterious.

... like the dark side of the moon.


----------



## spaekle

Jolty said:


> ok so I've been talking with some of my friends about how I am confused about what my proper gender is
> some of them seem to not take me seriously it's like "you have tits and a vagina, you're a woman"
> 
> way to miss the point !!
> 
> I'll just alternate between the two :( I don't really feel like a man or a woman... for longer than a day that is


Yeah, it's hard to find people who take you seriously. It's been around 3/4 years for me and I still feel like most of my friends think my whole gender thing is just a joke or me trying to be quirky or something. 

On the subject of gender: I was looking at the student handbook for a college I'm interested in, and was pleased to find that they actually use the term "gender identity" when talking about rooming and protect sexual orientation in their discrimination policy. Art schools are awesome.


----------



## octobr

RELEVANTLY: if you wanna read my sappy pw-themed trans story, here's the link: http://teagueful.livejournal.com/26058.html?thread=7163594#t7163594

warning! purple prose and sob stories ahoy!

edit: also it's not all up but then again it's not exactly _done_


----------



## Keltena

Verne, this is kind of some of the worst criticism I've ever given, but... ohgodIloveit.

I mean... seriously. I've never gone through that exact thing, but I think the kind of confusion and frustration that comes with it is universal, and it really just... worked. I really do fail at criticism... it's not that the characterization is good, not because it isn't but because that's not what I like about it, but, uh...

...oh, whatever. I like your story. Yey.


----------



## Peter Shadeslayer

So, the LGBT Club. How does one join? ;P


----------



## ultraviolet

you say 'can I join?' and then you join =3


----------



## Alexi

If you drink any other soft drinks besides coke or sprite you are a blatant homosexual


----------



## Jolty

Alexi said:


> If you drink any other soft drinks besides coke or sprite you are a blatant homosexual


by this logic I am straight !!


----------



## Bluberry Bat

Alexi said:


> If you drink any other soft drinks besides coke or sprite you are a blatant homosexual


I drink Pepsi and 7-Up D; Arh ha ha ha ha.


----------



## ultraviolet

> If you drink any other soft drinks besides coke or sprite you are a blatant homosexual


Coke and Sprite are gross. :|
But then I don't really drink _any _soft drinks.


----------



## Wyvern

I drink ice tea ^_^


----------



## octobr

I DRINK THE BLOOD OF VIRGINS


----------



## Harlequin

I drink menstrual blood flavoured with amniotic fluid. Pricey, but really the best.


----------



## Dewgong

i hate soda it makes my stomach hurt

what about cranberry juice


----------



## Bluberry Bat

Earl Grey Tea with Honey is the superior beverage really. :3


----------



## ultraviolet

^ yes. 
Although I do tend to prefer english breakfast over earl grey.


----------



## Dinru

I drink Mountain Dew. Yay caffeine. But Sprite is good too, I just don't drink it as often. I guess that makes me bi. OH WAIT.


----------



## spaekle

I drink Pepsi and assorted flavored water beverages. Because I'm a faggot like that.


----------



## Wyvern

Faggotry ftw <333


----------



## octobr

Hey, what? No gays allowed, wtf, get out.


----------



## Wyvern

;-; *cries and leaves*


----------



## Peter Shadeslayer

In that case, can I join? For I drink the blood of infants. :/


----------



## Dewgong

drinking the blood of infants is enough for me to want you to leave

and you don't have to ask to join, you just say "i join" and you're pretty much here.


----------



## Peter Shadeslayer

I do not like infants :{ They whine and poop even if they are adorable. Although I suppose I would not go so far as to truly drink their blood. :P No, I certainly would not. Perhaps I will attempt to obtain a child someday. HRM.

And for the third try: "I join."

Does any other gay person want babies?


----------



## Wyvern

I don't o.o


----------



## Dewgong

i could not live with myself if i had babies with someone :|
or having babies in the first place anyways


----------



## Minish

...I want babies. D:

Or, rather, I want children. I don't think _anybody_ likes taking care of babies that cry all night, or constantly change nappies, but sure, I want to raise a family. There probably isn't anything else I'm positive I want to do during my life.


----------



## spaekle

I'm decidedly childfree, so yeah. 

If my hard-earned money is going to go toward another living thing's wellbeing, it's going to be something cool like a frog or a snake or maybe a bird. Or maybe I'll just fill my house with carnivorous plants. :p


----------



## Harlequin

I want the end result of children. I just don't want to go through the whole process of raising them. And doing illegal procedures to turn my husband's marrow into eggs and then the whole implantation and the countless lies that will follow...

drama.


----------



## Jolty

I want to have a kid at some point. Just one
I will dread the first few years though, god babies fffff

Kittens are so much easier ;o;


----------



## Dewgong

i guess i want kids, it's more of "i don't want to be the one having them"
ugh and the baby stages... i'd have such a hard time putting up with that

i suck with children in general though. in sixth grade we had the kindergarten buddy program thing and i got so impatient with my girl, it took her two fucking minutes to write a capital p in pig... :(


----------



## octobr

... what the hell

I can't access websites describing sodomy laws because the filter claims it 'pornography.' Fuck you school.


----------



## Vladimir Putin's LJ

There's about two or three computers at my school that filter all of the names of the main Nazis (except Himmler for some reason) and the word gay. But not lesbian.
~*quality material*~


----------



## Peter Shadeslayer

I might want kids. I suppose I'll see if my lover does.


----------



## Minish

My school blocks polyandry, but not polygyny, which I find to be really disgusting. Then again, it also blocks anything about paganism on the basis of OMG OCCULT!!1 and anything about LGBT as OMG ALTERNATIVE LIFESTYLES!!1.

My school _sucks_


----------



## Alexi

I guess your school would lose its shit if a gay pagan came on campus.

but then maybe any school would lose its shit if anyone _came_ on campus

see what I did there


----------



## Wyvern

Alexi said:


> I guess your school would lose its shit if a gay pagan came on campus.
> 
> but then maybe any school would lose its shit if anyone _came_ on campus
> 
> see what I did there


*facepalm*


----------



## Harlequin

Last night I was at the straightest gay bar in the world. There were four gays there. Including me. And about twelve straights. (It was empty because it was like ... half nine.)


----------



## Minish

Alexi said:


> I guess your school would lose its shit if a gay pagan came on campus.


*raises hand* :D Hi!



Harlequin said:


> Last night I was at the straightest gay bar in the world. There were four gays there. Including me. And about twelve straights. (It was empty because it was like ... half nine.)


...twelve straights at a gay bar? Wow.


----------



## Harlequin

Straights always go to gay bars. It's quite annoying actually because I intend to go to them seriously at one point and knowing that there will be a large number of hot straight men is quite disheartening. Some of my friends are *really* hot.


----------



## surskitty

I'm more familiar with the concept of straight women going to gay bars and straight men going to lesbian bars.

Frequently they get kicked out.


----------



## Harlequin

Well. The straight men have now realised that the straight women go to gay bars. Soooo they go to gay bars. We went to one because "it's a laugh". I don't know why. I didn't have fun.


----------



## Peter Shadeslayer

lol that's silly. xD


----------



## Wyvern

I'm not a clubbing sort of person. I hate being around crowds x.x


----------



## Bluberry Bat

*SWEET. RAVE. PARTY.*

Once I get to London I'm never going to be awake in the daytime hours again, 100% nightlife baby. 
But till then I have to pretend by blasting my head full of Trance. >: <3 you Paul Oakenfold.


----------



## Alexi

So I have discovered that I'm into something new now: Traps. o.O Hey, it's allllright.


----------



## octobr

Gotta love it...

I believe there is a consensus that Marley's hotness would be amplified were she trappier.


----------



## Flazeah

Peter Shadeslayer said:


> Does any other gay person want babies?


 Hmm, interesting question. I'm not sure. I think it'd be fun - although hard at times - and rewarding to raise a child, but I'll just see how my life turns out.


----------



## Bluberry Bat

Oh, previous baby question.

Well... I did, but I've sort of resigned to.. not. I'm a good 6 months into hormone treatments by now and started anti-androgens... yesterday. But for all intents and purposes by this point I'm as good as sterile. Even though adoption is an open choice and lots of kids need homes it's just a shaky idea for me not having genetic input.. as greedy as that must sound. There was no available bank for material preservation so..
Well, I guess I'll see how it goes. I don't have a confirmed partner yet even if I'd like to, and since I'm on the fence they'll probably make the final call.


----------



## octobr

god do I want hrt.

or, for that matter, anything.

I just don't have the balls to talk to my therapist about it, I guess cause it's so hard to explain and she's not really a specialist. as much research i do about the subject I always feel like I don't know what to do. But I gotta say the mirror at dance is so very fun. god.


----------



## Vladimir Putin's LJ

I have the same 'talking to therapists' problem. I've tried to talk about it more than once but it's just a hard thing to come out with, really.

Also due to my new haircut and jacket someone treated me like a boy for the first time. I mean it was an old man hitting on me, probably because of the magazine I was reading, but it's always something.


----------



## octobr

I get treated male on and off -- at the store the other day the weird cashier guy was like YOUNG MAN NAME THIS SONG and started singing while checking out our stuff, it was weird but he was moving the groceries really fast and was talented so! Er, anyway. 

I really need a haircut, relatedly. Seriously I have to wear hair clips cause it keeps getting in my eyes goddamn hair.


----------



## delta7

I would love to joim this club. New to the site, so I'll just do my intro here. You can call me Will! Hmm...I guess that's about all I've got for an intro @_@


----------



## Dewgong

welcome, will. you should tell me more about yourself. that is so little information.


----------



## octobr

Updated my faggoty franziska story. I should tag some unexpected smut at the end just for the luls.

and then franziska was a girl AND ADRIAN SHOVED HER FACE IN HER GROIN


----------



## Dewgong

groin is such an awesome word

i don't even know why


----------



## Wyvern

Bawlz

I liek that word too :3


----------



## Dewgong

a groin my groin your groin her groin his groin our groin


----------



## octobr

I GROINED HIM IN THE KNEE


----------



## delta7

so many groins >.<

Okay, so now that I'm on an actual PC, I'm a little more free (my cell phone only lets me type 200 characters at a time because it hates me and calls me a fag when I put it on silent! I know it does! <.< err...nevermind) 

So, I'm a 20-year-old gay guy from Vermont (the original gay state!) I've been into Pokemon since...well...pretty much it came out, but it's come to my attention recently that a lot of hardcore fans are scary! So, that's what brings me here ^_^

Oh, and I've never given the word 'groin' much thought, but I'm big into the word 'peeper' now...not sure why. Think my slutty friend Ashley got me into that.


----------



## Dinru

I like the word clit. It sounds cool.

Welcome.


----------



## Minish

I hate almost every 'rude' word imaginable. >_> They all sound gross to me.

Cunt and vagina in particular are just... urgh, it hurts to even type them. Clit is pretty shiver-inducing as well, penis is getting there, and groin is... well, actually that's probably the only one who gets as good a rank as 'mediocre'.

...yes, yes I rate words. Dirty words.


----------



## Harlequin

I absolutely love the word cunt. It's brilliant. My favourite English word, actually. CUNT CUNT CUNT CUNT CUNT. <3


----------



## octobr

Words don't really describe the body well. Breast is such an ugly word for such a pretty thing.


----------



## Peter Shadeslayer

I think cock is an excellent word, even though it applies to other things.


----------



## Minish

Verne said:


> Words don't really describe the body well. Breast is such an ugly word for such a pretty thing.


Forgot this one.
Though to be honest, breast is at least better sounding than boob, which is a little horrific. Hell, even 'tit' is better than boob.

HARLEQUIN STOP IT ARGH how can you like that word. ;~;


----------



## Jolty

I don't like many of those kinds of words either but I must admit, finding synonyms for penis is very fun :B


----------



## Zhorken

Most words for breasts only work pluralized.  "Boobs" sounds fine to me (kind of silly, but boobs are kind of silly) and "boob" sounds weird.  Also I like "cunt" and "muff" and "cock" and... most of the words I like for sexy bits are silly.  Sexy bits are silly.  :3

EDIT: Best word ever is "skank".  If only it meant something more positive...!


----------



## Dewgong

i hate the word breast. i'm with verne, how could you give such an ugly name to such a pretty thing. tit and tits are awful words. those could very well be my least favourite words when it comes to body parts.

...vagina sounds stupid. :/


----------



## Peter Shadeslayer

Vagina sounds like a freaking disease.


----------



## octobr

My vagina is a disease.


----------



## Bluberry Bat

>: Tit is a fun word though. It doesn't sound dirty, it's more like a nickname! 'Ey Tit c'mere. Either that or a snack food. New! Nabisco Cheese Tits!





Noone even understands what I'm talking about do they.


Also penis and vagina are terrible, terrible words. D< Gyuh. Though look at me I tend to refer to the former as "Wing-Wong" so who's to talk.


----------



## octobr

wingwongwingwong it's like a wigwam hahahahahaoaefijpawef


----------



## ultraviolet

I like the words penis, cock and tits. Vagina sounds like some kind of infection. :< 
cervix sounds kind of cool though. as do testicles.


----------



## Zhorken

yyyeah I don't like the word "vagina" and I'll only use it if I'm being somewhat clinical.
EDIT: and ohmygosh _yes_ "cervix" is amazing.  Better yet since the cervix doesn't come up often enough in sex to get a bunch of nicknames that make its real name sound clinical.
EDIT 2: and "scrotum" makes me giggle.


----------



## Wyvern

I prefer using the word "ballbag"

Idk, it just sounds funny and awesome xD


----------



## Harlequin

Cirrus said:


> Forgot this one.
> Though to be honest, breast is at least better sounding than boob, which is a little horrific. Hell, even 'tit' is better than boob.
> 
> HARLEQUIN STOP IT ARGH how can you like that word. ;~;


Maybe it's because I don't have one but it is such a glorious word <3 I love it :D

so powerful and lovely to say. It's got that hard C and then the T and omg <3.


----------



## Jolty

oh
bollocks is an awesome word

it is part of my everyday vocabulary


----------



## Wyvern

Jolty said:


> oh
> bollocks is an awesome word
> 
> it is part of my everyday vocabulary


Bollocks is the BEST word.

Bollocks bollocks bollocks bollocks bollocks


----------



## spaekle

I'm rather fond of Cowper's glands myself.


----------



## Adriane

I've not joined? /join #lgbt


----------



## Wyvern

Mudkip said:


> I've not joined? /join #lgbt


So I herd Mudkipz lieks other Mudkipz owo


----------



## Adriane

Mudkips can be female.


----------



## octobr

malekips?


----------



## Dewgong

12.5% chance of being female :3


----------



## Wyvern

Mudkip said:


> Mudkips can be female.


I knows ^w^

So I take it your letter is L? owo


----------



## Adriane

Wyvern said:


> I knows ^w^
> 
> So I take it your letter is L? owo


B and T, rather.


----------



## Wyvern

Mudkip said:


> B and T, rather.


Oh xD

Well, welcome to the club ^w^


----------



## Minish

So today I found out my ex-best friend/massive crush doesn't want to be friends with me ever again :O And that she like, hates me.

Life is a bitch sometimes.


----------



## Wyvern

Cirrus said:


> So today I found out my ex-best friend/massive crush doesn't want to be friends with me ever again :O And that she like, hates me.
> 
> Life is a bitch sometimes.


Whoa whoa whoa!

Why the hell would she say that? O_o


----------



## octobr

Cirrus, all your friends sound like jerks, just saying. 

*FLEXES HIS TACT*


----------



## Harlequin

Cirrus said:


> So today I found out my ex-best friend/massive crush doesn't want to be friends with me ever again :O And that she like, hates me.
> 
> Life is a bitch sometimes.


It happens, you know? Don't worry though! Eventually you get over it and you're like "haha you're an absolute canunt."


----------



## Peter Shadeslayer

Getting over people IS possible... just not easy. :/


----------



## Dinru

:< *hugs Cirrus*

There are plenty more girls in the sea! There will be another fish someday! (Wait, I think I got that messed up...)


----------



## Dewgong

sorry cirrus :(


----------



## octobr

Dinru said:


> :< *hugs Cirrus*
> 
> There are plenty more girls in the sea! There will be another fish someday! (Wait, I think I got that messed up...)


But if you find a nice mermaid, ask her if she has any friends. Or sisters.


----------



## Alexi

*hugs Cirrus and offers cookies* I'm sorry. But it's best to move on.


----------



## Wyvern

I am officially disowning any and all Christians unless I get to/am getting to know them...

I'm highly pissed off right now, though I can't be, because I'm not a person...


----------



## octobr

dear everyone: when you say 'I hate christians, except so and so, they're nice,' it's sort of the same thing that people do when they say 'I hate fags, 'cept so and so, they're ok' and that ain't cool.

Who you hate -- who we all hate, everyone, not just queers but most human beings -- are the extremists, the radicals, because they make rash decisions and rarely back them up and they hurt too many people as they do so. But saying you hate christians is as offensive as saying you hate jews or you hate hispanics or you hate fags. 

Just sayin ... cause JC, he's totally cool with this shit. yo.


----------



## Vladimir Putin's LJ

While I agree it's offensive to say you hate a whole group, I don't think a religion you are free to choose is the same as a race or sexual orientation. But yeah, I'm an atheist but I'm okay with Christians unless they make me cry :c believe in what you want and let me do the same.

Or if they cough into the little wafers that are the body of Christ. Gross old priest dude


----------



## octobr

omg those wafers are so delicious that is the best part about going to church


----------



## Peter Shadeslayer

lol I like the wine at church.

Christians aren't too bad usually unless they're very traditional. :/


----------



## Dinru

Christians are fine and dandy, 'cept the ones that be all hate'n. :(


----------



## Wyvern

Ok I was pissed off when I said that :/

But I'll just quote the passage constantly thrown in my face...

Leviticus 18:22
_Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is abomination._


----------



## octobr

Ahem. Consider that leviticus has more than five chapters detailing animal sacrifice and also says if you swear or _hear_ swearing you are a sinner ... 

MORE FUN: 



			
				Leviticus 15 said:
			
		

> 19 " 'When a woman has her regular flow of blood, the impurity of her monthly period will last seven days, and anyone who touches her will be unclean till evening.
> 
> 20 " 'Anything she lies on during her period will be unclean, and anything she sits on will be unclean. 21 Whoever touches her bed must wash his clothes and bathe with water, and he will be unclean till evening. 22 Whoever touches anything she sits on must wash his clothes and bathe with water, and he will be unclean till evening. 23 Whether it is the bed or anything she was sitting on, when anyone touches it, he will be unclean till evening.
> 
> 24 " 'If a man lies with her and her monthly flow touches him, he will be unclean for seven days; any bed he lies on will be unclean.
> 
> ...  28 " 'When she is cleansed from her discharge, she must count off seven days, and after that she will be ceremonially clean. 29 On the eighth day she must take two doves or two young pigeons and bring them to the priest at the entrance to the Tent of Meeting. 30 The priest is to sacrifice one for a sin offering and the other for a burnt offering. In this way he will make atonement for her before the LORD for the uncleanness of her discharge.





			
				Leviticus 26 said:
			
		

> 14 " 'But if you will not listen to me and carry out all these commands, 15 and if you reject my decrees and abhor my laws and fail to carry out all my commands and so violate my covenant, 16 then I will do this to you: I will bring upon you sudden terror, wasting diseases and fever that will destroy your sight and drain away your life. You will plant seed in vain, because your enemies will eat it. 17 I will set my face against you so that you will be defeated by your enemies; those who hate you will rule over you, and you will flee even when no one is pursuing you.
> 
> 18 " 'If after all this you will not listen to me, I will punish you for your sins seven times over. 19 I will break down your stubborn pride and make the sky above you like iron and the ground beneath you like bronze. 20 Your strength will be spent in vain, because your soil will not yield its crops, nor will the trees of the land yield their fruit.
> 
> 21 " 'If you remain hostile toward me and refuse to listen to me, I will multiply your afflictions seven times over, as your sins deserve. 22 I will send wild animals against you, and they will rob you of your children, destroy your cattle and make you so few in number that your roads will be deserted.
> 
> etc





			
				Leviticus 19 said:
			
		

> 19 " 'Keep my decrees.
> " 'Do not mate different kinds of animals.
> " 'Do not plant your field with two kinds of seed.
> " 'Do not wear clothing woven of two kinds of material.
> 
> 20 " 'If a man sleeps with a woman who is a slave girl promised to another man but who has not been ransomed or given her freedom, there must be due punishment. Yet they are not to be put to death, because she had not been freed. 21 The man, however, must bring a ram to the entrance to the Tent of Meeting for a guilt offering to the LORD. 22 With the ram of the guilt offering the priest is to make atonement for him before the LORD for the sin he has committed, and his sin will be forgiven.
> 
> 23 " 'When you enter the land and plant any kind of fruit tree, regard its fruit as forbidden. * For three years you are to consider it forbidden [c] ; it must not be eaten. 24 In the fourth year all its fruit will be holy, an offering of praise to the LORD. 25 But in the fifth year you may eat its fruit. In this way your harvest will be increased. I am the LORD your God.
> 
> 26 " 'Do not eat any meat with the blood still in it.
> " 'Do not practice divination or sorcery.
> 
> 27 " 'Do not cut the hair at the sides of your head or clip off the edges of your beard.
> 
> 28 " 'Do not cut your bodies for the dead or put tattoo marks on yourselves. I am the LORD. *


*

Also, all of leviticus 11. http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Leviticus 11&version=NIV




Leviticus is general bullshit, hurrr.*


----------



## Vladimir Putin's LJ

Verne said:


> omg those wafers are so delicious that is the best part about going to church


I heard they're a pain in the ass because they stick to the roof of your mouth but I'm not baptized so I'm technically not allowed to be a cannibal :c

If all Christians just ignored the Old Testament LIKE JESUS TELLS THEM TO then there wouldn't be any problems really.


----------



## octobr

I dunno, I don't mind. They're so freaking delicious. aoweifjapef mmm. 

Hrm, the queer club at school was supposed to meet (for the very first time!!!) but either I wasn't invited or it didn't fly. Hoping the former, cause I want it to exist.


----------



## spaekle

I wish my school had a queer club. :[


----------



## Adriane

Spaekle Oddberry said:


> I wish my school had a queer club. :[


A nearby high school had a LGBT club established by court ruling; apparently they've been trying for years. 

The principal then resigned.


----------



## Drowzee64

Hey, guess what? I'm gay! :O

Try coming down here to Texas if you want to receive genuine hatred.


----------



## DonKarasuMan

Taken literally, homosexuality is somewhat taboo in my school; pretty much anyone who isn't androgynous is assumed to be heterosexual.

Someone once made a thread on the subject in my school intranet forum, admitting himself to be bisexual, and although there were those (homophobics) who defended their opinion in a 'You're not allowed to stop me hating gays' manner, it was generally ignored.


----------



## Vladimir Putin's LJ

I'm actually thinking of making a GSA/LGBT club at my school, since there's got to be a significant number of gays (1500 pupils in the secondary school so er), but first I have to tell my mum, which I guess will go over okay, and second I have to find out how to do it. At my school we usually need a teacher in charge of a club or society so that we can use a classroom, and I'm pretty keen on using one since I'd like to be away from the incredible amounts of noise and shit in the rest of the school.
Gonna try next week, it just seems like a cool idea since I'm sure a lot of people would like to talk about their gay crushes and handbags.

In other news my shrink recently said something along the lines of 'SO VLAD YOU SEEM TO HAVE A MORE MASCULINE BRAIN?' and I nodded feverishly buuuut the session ended. Gonna see her next week though so er let's see if this will be good or not.


----------



## Wyvern

Vladimir Putin's LJ said:


> I'm actually thinking of making a GSA/LGBT club at my school, since there's got to be a significant number of gays (1500 pupils in the secondary school so er), but first I have to tell my mum, which I guess will go over okay, and second I have to find out how to do it. At my school we usually need a teacher in charge of a club or society so that we can use a classroom, and I'm pretty keen on using one since I'd like to be away from the incredible amounts of noise and shit in the rest of the school.
> Gonna try next week, it just seems like a cool idea since I'm sure a lot of people would like to talk about their gay crushes and handbags.
> 
> In other news my shrink recently said something along the lines of 'SO VLAD YOU SEEM TO HAVE A MORE MASCULINE BRAIN?' and I nodded feverishly buuuut the session ended. Gonna see her next week though so er let's see if this will be good or not.


Good on you Vlad! I salute you ^w^


----------



## Minish

Hmm... I wish there was an LGBT group thing at my school, but it probably wouldn't be allowed because my headteacher is a pillock.

By the way, thanks guys  You're all awesome.


----------



## octobr

Well it's not really a _club_


we have regular groups at our school run by the counselors, so there's things like Women's Issues, Men's Issues, etcetera -- but they're not clubs, there's no posters or whatever. You're just put down for it or your counselor asks if you want it and then every whateverdayoftheweek you get sent a pass at some random time and you go. It's totally confidential.

Admittedly I'd _prefer_ an open LGBTQ club but any step is good ... It's just, if it's confidential and counselor-chosen, what about the kids still in the closet who need to have a release, who need to be told it's ok? We're not really allowed to talk about the club or anyone who's in it, so I mean what can those kids do ... I dunno. 

It's kinda my fault that we have one going, though, I kept insisting last year that we have one BECAUSE UH THOSE KIDS TOTALLY NEED SOMEONE TO TALK TO (I was in a Women's Issues group and I didn't exactly feel comfortable talking to them. I didn't even know most of their names)


----------



## Dewgong

my middle school has nothing, but my highschool has an actual club with group meetings and shit. i can't wait, only one more year. 

slightly off-topic: my (future) highschool is like... 7000 kids. it's huge.


----------



## Minish

Dewgong said:


> slightly off-topic: my (future) highschool is like... 7000 kids. it's huge.


...holy crap.
I've always thought mine (about 1700) was big @_@


----------



## Dewgong

yeah it's amazing. it has a skywalk too~ that's my favourite part. it's like four levels too.


----------



## octobr

Jesus fuck would I ever get lost


----------



## Peter Shadeslayer

> Do not plant your field with two kinds of seed.


Somehow I feel this has a double meaning...

I got dumped by my boyfriend today. He lied.


----------



## Dewgong

i am sorry peter :(

and yeah verne i'll take pictures of it in the spring the skywalk is so amazing and all the floors are marble
i will get lost for sure D:


----------



## Peter Shadeslayer

My high school is like... 600 kids. Which means that statistically there are 60 gays. Which is not true because I live in Straightville.

Skywalks are effing amazing.


----------



## ultraviolet

Our school is about 500 people, I think. There used to be a pair of gay boys that were a few years older than me and they used to kiss at school and it was really cute. Then there was a transexual guy? I think and he graduated last year. And then half of my friends are bisexual. We don't have a club or anything though, everyone's kind of open about it here. 
I love australia <3


----------



## Wyvern

ultraviolet said:


> Our school is about 500 people, I think. There used to be a pair of gay boys that were a few years older than me and they used to kiss at school and it was really cute. Then there was a transexual guy? I think and he graduated last year. And then half of my friends are bisexual. We don't have a club or anything though, everyone's kind of open about it here.
> I love australia <3


Lucky you, I'm stuck here on the other side of the country with a single gay/bi guy that I know of T_T


----------



## DonKarasuMan

I know two guys who are 'openly' bisexual and a schoolmate I get along with quite well is gay. That's about all I know, sadly >:


----------



## Drowzee64

I know of one gay couple (boys) in my school, and one of the teachers is gay too.

There won't be a LGBT club for at least a million years in my school. A girl at another high school in the school district tried to create one and was completely ignored even though the proposal met all requirements.


----------



## octobr

I don't know any lgbt kids. 

Except trendy bisexual kids. Meh.


----------



## Jolty

There's one gay guy that I know at my school, plus two of my friends who are bi.
Loads more people say they're bi but they're really not :| it's not a trend guys

It seems unfair
I was the only one out of the lot who was ever bullied for it years ago
fffff I spose I shouldn't have come out so early. Even if it was kind of by accident.


----------



## DonKarasuMan

Speaking of which, am I the only one who isn't open about it all? I don't plan on revealing anytime soon, or, preferably, ever, since it has to go through a lot of strategic planning and I have to avoid rash decisions when the urge comes to shout it all out. It's frustrating really, but I live on the mentality that inner strength is defined by the amount of secrets that are kept.


----------



## Vladimir Putin's LJ

I live in Gaytown, Belgium and my school's got 3600 pupils but I have yet to see 360 gays there. Groovy number too.


----------



## Minish

Two of my friends are bisexual, we must have attracted eachother through gaydar or something because as far as I know us three are the only out LGBT people in the entire school.

We got bullied on it for about a year, and there are still people in lower years who will gossip about 'the lesbians', and we get asked about six times a week whether we are, gasp, OMG LESBIANS. Note that people never call us dykes or anything, they just call us lesbians. Because clearly, telling us what we are (or somewhere about that) will just cause us to curl up and die, despite us _already telling you we're gay, obviously_.

It's good though, two of us in particular, myself included, are very fine with being out, and there are many girls in our year who respect us for that. :D So maybe people will be more comfortable with being out after us or something.

Long comment ahoy~?


----------



## Alexi

I tend to attract bisexual friends everywhere. My best friend is, as well as at least three of my other friends, not to mention my boyfriend. I also noticed two gay boys at my high school who were open and dating each other. They were cute. X3 

Don't know if anyone at my college is. College is kinda more private anyway.


----------



## Harlequin

There are lots of gays at college. LOTS OF THEM. It's sickening. They're all foul. :( Um. Yeah that was me dissing the faggots because they're ugly.

sorry I'm shallow. Anyway.

At school there weren't very many, but it's a school of 300 pupils... you can really only expect 30 gays at the most. I know of one in the year below me and one (at least I assume he is ... ) in the year below that. As far as I know I'm the only real gay in my year. (We had a "bi" girl but I think she's just straight now, and we used to have a lesbian but she moved schools before she came out so uh.)


----------



## Drowzee64

Due to the odd nature of rumors in my school, I am officially half-way through the closet. Some people think I'm bi for some reason. 0.o

...I don't get it either.


----------



## spaekle

Most of my friends are bi, and then I have one gay friend. There are a couple of other gay guys at my school, most of which are pretty annoying because you can tell they're trying _way too hard_ to fit the stereotype/perceived "lifestyle". 

Then there are a couple of teachers I hear rumors about, but those are rumors. And we also have our fair share of scene kids who think being bi is cool.

I dunno wtf people think I am. I apparently give off an "asexual" vibe, according to my friend. That couldn't be further from the truth. I'm a_romantic_. :v


----------



## Peter Shadeslayer

There are plenty more gay _girls_ that I know of in my school than gay guys. I know of one other gay besides myself in my school. ;-;


----------



## Drowzee64

The impossible happened today. I saw two gay couples and I overheard 1 guy talking about how hot another guy is. Strangely enough, they were all guys. 0.o


----------



## Zuu

I don't know if I've done this yet but if not, I wish to join this organization. :o

let's talk about crossdressing


----------



## Alexi

Cross dressing is awesome.

Cept I suck at it. :(


----------



## octobr

Hi welcome to my life


----------



## Vladimir Putin's LJ

Alexi said:


> Cross dressing is awesome.
> 
> Cept I suck at it. :(


----------



## Minish

I really hate the look of guys crossdressing. :/ I don't see anything wrong with it, of course, because... there's nothing wrong with it. But it's just not... uh... the kind of thing I'd like to look at? I guess?
And on that note, comedic drag acts just... ugh. I don't find them entertaining at all.

On the other hand, women in men's suits = _wow_. And like, women in unisex clothing in general. *_*


----------



## octobr

When done correctly crossdressing men is like ;3


----------



## Adriane

So I talked to my psychiatrist about it today, and also told a couple friends about my decision. All of them seemed to be pretty supportive, so that's a good sign :D

Now, my parents on the other hand...


----------



## Dewgong

oh boy. parents.

also i crossdress 90% of the time when i go out in public :B
10% i'm with family and forced to wear like dresses and stuff


----------



## Jolty

It's harder to crossdress if you're a girl :( but like everything I wear is unisex so


----------



## Zuu

well things I am doing:

getting rid of my damn acne
growing out my hair. still
HAIR REMOVAL finally thank god
I'm trying to work on female mannerisms and stuff to make myself more convincing
and then I need girly clothes. :O 

psst if I don't look dumb I'll post pix


----------



## Alexi

Verne said:


> Hi welcome to my life


I think you look pretty good. But then I probably only see your best pictures so I dunno. o.O

It's harder for a fat guy to cross dress. >.< I just look like a freak when I try. Oh well whatev.


----------



## ultraviolet

I usually wear unisex clothing, but I'll wear women's stuff to dress up. unisex/men's clothing is so goddamn comfortable. 

My boyfriend likes crossdressing :> he doesn't do it much though (and not in public, he's too shy).


----------



## Dinru

I've tried to crossdress before, though not in public. I kinda like it, but my hair is too long and I can't find a good way to strap the girls upstairs down (and I'm like only an a cup wtf). I'm probably not very convincing though :( And I live in a teensy-tiny bible-belt-wannabe town so.


----------



## octobr

well uh if I wear girl clothes it's crossdressing to me

if I wear proper clothing then it's crossdressing to everyone else


either a win-win or a lose-lose situation.


----------



## Dewgong

verne your signature scared the living fuck out of me


----------



## octobr

Yeah. It scared me shitless too.

House of Leaves.


----------



## Wyvern

Saw a reeeeeally cute guy yesterday, we were playing Guitar Hero in a Gametraders store xP

Unfortunately he left with his mother, only saying goodbye ):

That and he looked about 14-15 ):

*sigh* Australia is no place for gays :/


----------



## Almost Eric

ON CROSS DRESSING.

What Verne said lol. To me it isn't cross dressing but to everyone else it is.. so you could say that I do it all the time from that perspective. Except I've yet to purchase a binder so I'm not very convincing unless I'm wearing a massive coat... plus people who know me rat me out. >:(

Oh and my mum won't buy me "mens" shoes or trousers. I'll buy them myself obviously when I can but I have to rely on my mother a lot of the time so yeah..
Somehow something as little as my shoes and trousers makes me extremely self conscious. deerp.

I can't remember the last time I was forced into a dress and I do not really want to either. D:


----------



## Zuu

ok shaving your legs is not fun. :[

lotion seems to be helping though.


----------



## Jolty

Dezzuu said:


> ok shaving your legs is not fun. :[
> 
> lotion seems to be helping though.


it takes forever and is bloody annoying
so I rarely do it anymore :B


----------



## Bluberry Bat

Protip: Aloe Vera gel; it's _amazing_.


----------



## ultraviolet

or vitamin E cream (often sold as handcream) or lanolin. 
actually instead of buying an aloe vera product, just go buy a plant. They take no effort to grow provided you water them and all you need to do is pick off a stalk and use the juices for whatever.


----------



## Vladimir Putin's LJ

Almost Eric said:


> Oh and my mum won't buy me "mens" shoes or trousers. I'll buy them myself obviously when I can but I have to rely on my mother a lot of the time so yeah..


Monetarily, like? Because getting *around* London's pretty easy even though the tube's crap.

I'm looking forward to appearing at least androgynous enough to be able to get a suit with suitable (heh) shoulders without being looked at weird :c also I think I might be able to order a binder and test it out sometime soon but we'll see.


----------



## Dewgong

Almost Eric said:


> I can't remember the last time I was forced into a dress and I do not really want to either. D:


meeeee neither. except i do remember it. bad times.


----------



## Flazeah

Jolty said:


> it takes forever and is bloody annoying


 *nods* Yeah; sometimes literally. Last week, I had some blood pouring down my leg due to being a bit too enthusiastic with a razor. I usually use shaving cream and am not used to using razors, ehe.


----------



## surskitty

I don't shave.  :)  Why shave off blonde fuzz?  It's not like anyone'll see it.  Particularly my legs; I don't believe in shorts.


----------



## octobr

Lol. THe last time I shaved I cut myself like six times. Like real bad too, I felt magically retarded. :B


I def need a binder before I head off to college


----------



## Alexi

Once you get into the habit of shaving (and using some kind of lotion or whatever) it gets easier.


----------



## Almost Eric

Vladimir Putin's LJ said:


> Monetarily, like? Because getting *around* London's pretty easy even though the tube's crap.
> 
> I'm looking forward to appearing at least androgynous enough to be able to get a suit with suitable (heh) shoulders without being looked at weird :c also I think I might be able to order a binder and test it out sometime soon but we'll see.


Yeah. I have to rely on my mother for money a lot which is why I can't buy the clothes I need.. If I misunderstood uh, feel free to correct me.

Yay appearing androgynous! I really want to order a binder but I'm not sure how much they cost and dfkugdsh yeah have to go through my mother to get one and she's tight with money even though she would like to get me one..

Also; I must appear at least kind of androgynous/whatever because a lady asked my mother if I was her son.. :') It made me happy. :B


----------



## Dewgong

i have no idea how much they cost, but, they can be kind of expensive, i know that much.


----------



## octobr

DOODOODEEDOO http://ftm.underworks.com/ Underworks is god. 

also note: http://community.livejournal.com/ftm/ and relatedly http://community.livejournal.com/ftm/tag/. 

And since apparently I've a lot more links than you I shall quote the mystical ftmichael



			
				ftmichael said:
			
		

> If you don't already have one, definitely get a LiveJournal at http://www.livejournal.com/create.bml.  It doesn't matter if you don't want to keep an online journal.  You don't have to post to your personal journal.  The point is the communities; that's where the support is, quite a bit more than here, and especially for FTMs. See http://community.livejournal.com/transgender/1133801.html for LJ communities that may help you. Go to the userinfo (profile) page of any community and click the link at the top of the profile where it says 'to join this community, click here'. And spend a lot of time at http://community.livejournal.com/ftm/tag/ .
> 
> Links for you - take your time going through them! The point is that you have a load of them so you can go through them at whatever pace you want, and in whatever order you want, and not have to stop to look for more for quite a while.
> 
> http://imatyfa.org/
> http://transfamily.org/
> http://ftmmentors.org/
> http://trans-health.org/
> http://transbucket.com/
> http://camparanutiq.org/
> http://genderspectrum.org/
> http://transmsaculine.com/
> http://ftmichael.transboys.info/
> http://transkidspurplerainbow.org/
> * http://t-vox.org/ - resource/info central*
> http://community.pflag.org/Page.aspx?pid=266
> http://t-vox.org/index.php?title=Online_Support
> http://t-vox.org/index.php?title=Support_groups
> http://t-vox.org/index.php?title=Therapists_by_region
> http://safeschoolscoalition.org/whydontyoutellthem.pdf
> * http://ftmichael.transboys.info/yayforqueers.html - come chat!*
> http://tinyurl.com/lu6tev - ten-minute YouTube on coming out as FTM
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/teentransman/ - for Trans guys 25 and under
> http://youtube.com/user/mightiermenftm (I advise watching them all, and keep checking back because new ones are added every day)
> 
> Must-reads:
> _Luna_ by Julie Ann Peters
> _Parrotfish_ by Ellen Wittlinger
> _Just Add Hormones_ by Matt Kailey
> _Becoming a Visible Man_ by Jamison Green
> _Trans Forming Families_, edited by Mary Boenke (third edition, 2008, orange cover) - available from PFLAG's Transgender Network for $10
> The _Our Trans Children_ leaflet (sixth edition) - available from PFLAG's Transgender Network for $2, or you can save and print it yourself for free.  The booklet is their only source of revenue, so if you can afford to pay for it, please do!
> TransGeneration (Ignore what Lucas says in the first episode about hormones being "very dangerous" - they're not, not if you get them through a competent doctor and have regular - which usually means annual - bloodwork, and that was irresponsible of him to say.)
> (The books, aside from _Trans Forming Families_, can be ordered on amazon.com or you can get the ISBNs from amazon.com and bring them to any bookstore to order them. _Trans Forming Families_ is available from PFLAG's Transgender Network for $10. The DVD can be ordered on amazon.com also, as you see from the link.)


Not _superbly_ helpful for those of us who aren't leaning on the masculine side, but all the same ...


EDITED: also, http://sites.google.com/site/binderreviews/ this is pretty damn helpful. Since not each binder is tailored to each cup size, etc -- also lists good alternatives to underworks and provides pics.


----------



## Jolty

those are some pretty interesting websites there Verne...

I'm still thinking over what I actually am. The annoying thing is, when I was a lot younger, I /always/ hated being seen as a girl and then when I got to puberty I kind of just accepted that I was one, and only this year have I gone back to thinking "this isn't right" so it better not be a phase :(
Recently I've been like argh when people say my name or when I have to write it because it's so obviously girly and yeah. I don't think I really want to totally transition into a guy but I want to seem more like one than a woman, does that even make sense idk


----------



## ultraviolet

With the shaving thing, I met a MTF today who said that waxing is a really great idea if you tend to do it continuously because it lasts longer and your hair eventually just gets weaker anyway.


----------



## Wyvern

ultraviolet said:


> With the shaving thing, I met a MTF today who said that waxing is a really great idea if you tend to do it continuously because it lasts longer and your hair eventually just gets weaker anyway.


Truth be told I use my mother's eyebrow plucker to get my wild hairs out xD

So lonely x.x


----------



## EvilCrazyMonkey

So today's coming out day. I don't really feel like it's important to tell anyone except my parents, but I am not coming out to them today. I've decided to wait until April Fool's Day and come out, so if they really do do something bad I can play it off as a joke. I would've come out to my swim coach but I don't see her today. Tomorrow, maybe?

Anyone else have plans for coming out today?


----------



## Jolty

oh god I forgot
and it's the end of the day over here

:(


----------



## Dewgong

...i think i'll wait until like
later


----------



## octobr

UK celebrates it on the twelfth ... I think.


Nah, I'm not doing crap. If anyone really needed to know they'd have figured it out by now.


----------



## Harlequin

Yeah it's NCOD here today. because we're gayer than thou.


----------



## Dinru

Aw crap I forgot it was COD. Oh well.

Also! I'm apparently in the process of coming out to the world in general. Against my will. Fun. (Note to self: When you don't want people to know something, don't tell the biggest loudmouth in the universe, even if she is your friend. Especially when you two have been fighting.)


----------



## Jolty

I'm still too nervous to tell anyone about my genderspazzy thing

But a lot of my online friends have been referring to me as a guy lately which rocks ;o;


----------



## spaekle

Aw, I forgot about COD too. Probably wouldn't have done anything if I _had_ known, though.

The cool thing about the internet is you can just tick a box and people will assume whatever you say is what you are most of the time. :v Although I tend to get too nervous to post pictures of myself or anything because there's always someone who feels the need to point out 'inconsistencies'. 

On a similar note, I really hate how MySpace, Facebook, et al. don't have an option to hide your sex/gender, much less a "prefer not to say" or "other" box. One of the reasons I quit Facebook, actually, was because I got sick of this box popping up asking something to the effect of "LOL ARE YOU A 'HE' OR 'SHE'?".


----------



## octobr

Facebook _lets_ you not choose a gender ... it just doesn't like it. So it yells at you. Ffff.


----------



## Jolty

yeah I only posted a bit ago whatev fff

I've been looking at how to legally change names and sex, y'know in case I do end up doing it
It's a bloody lot of work :( but I /can/ actually change my name now since here you have to be 16. However to legally change gender you have to be 18 (only 5 months away) and have lived as the one you want for two years apparently...

I don't think I'm ever gonna like get the surgery to be a guy, because I think I could live with my bits (except the uterus). Argh this whole thing is rather hard to explain it's bloody annoying :B


----------



## octobr

Considered the possibility of being genderqueer?

If you look through the ftm livejournal community there are plenty of people who are genderqueer, but take male pronouns and identify more on the masculine spectrum, or the other end. And _tons_ of people are non-op -- it's a stressful (and expensive) process.


----------



## Dewgong

i'm deathly afraid of any kind of surgery.


----------



## Harlequin

I could never get rid of my penis. We're friends, yo. He's been there since, like, the beginning.


----------



## octobr

Yeah well that doesn't mean a lot does it

I wish money grew on trees, cause honestly ... mastectomy please, shame I'm too big for a keyhole or a peri. also hyster/oophorectomy plzzzzz. and maybe metoidioplasty.

lol as if.


----------



## Almost Eric

Yeah on surgery, I do not know if I would go through with genitalia surgery (Though a dick would be awesome, I'm not sure I could mentally cope with surgery down there.) but I would definitely like to have my breasts removed and all the annoying inside stuff. Buuut apparently, according to a trans booklet I got sent, here in UK I can get this stuff done on the NHS but obviously it'd be bloody murder waiting for it. 

Thank you for those links a couple of pages back btw, Verne.


----------



## ultraviolet

mk so I love my sister right now

today my sister (she's six) told me that two boys kissing was gross. I asked her why and she didn't know, but she thought it was gross. I told her that some boys like kissing boys and some girls like kissing girls, and that it's okay and completely normal, they just like different things. She said she didn't like kissing girls but she always hugs everybody, and that if one of her friends kissed a girl then she wouldn't think it was gross because they'd be her friend and it was okay. 

I don't think she really understood about it much (my parents refuse to mention the word sex when she's around) but it was cute. :D


----------



## spaekle

On transition stuff: I'm more than likely going to look into T and eventually a mastectomy once my probably-going-to-be-insane college debt is paid off. I _really_ want a penis, but none of the options available for FTMs really seem worth it, so I guess I can stick with a strap-on or something. :c 

It would probably be very emotionally satisfying for me to be sterilized, but there are incredibly few doctors who will do that if you haven't bred simply because *~everyone~* changes their mind about not wanting kids! Not sure if being non-straight+cisgendered would make them more inclined to do it or not. I think T would eventually do that _for_ me anyway, but yeah.


----------



## Dinru

I've been thinking about my own gender a lot lately.

I've always been cool with my female body (well, at least the genitalia), but I've always thought it would be kinda groovy to have a penis, and boobs are really rather inconvenient, and I hate my uterus. Also, sometimes I'm not sure if I'm really female or not. Sometimes I feel very... male. I don't know why, but something in my head makes me feel male. It's the only way I can even describe it. But I'm fine with identifying as female. I think. I like female clothes, and being called "she" and "her" is fine, but things like "Miss" and "lady" make me cringe, unless I call myself those names (but I also call myself a worthless idiot so.) So yeah, I don't know if I'm just being an idiot or what and ljskli. Help? Sorry for clogging up the thread and thanks for your time.


----------



## Peter Shadeslayer

Harlequin said:


> I could never get rid of my penis. We're friends, yo. He's been there since, like, the beginning.


You just can't get rid of it, can you? I agree. :/


----------



## Jolty

Verne said:


> Considered the possibility of being genderqueer?
> 
> If you look through the ftm livejournal community there are plenty of people who are genderqueer, but take male pronouns and identify more on the masculine spectrum, or the other end. And _tons_ of people are non-op -- it's a stressful (and expensive) process.


just been looking through a bunch of places
I think this is probably what I am haha

at the very least I want to change my name to a guy's name...


ALSO I have a question for you all
do you/did you ever fear that your queerness might be a phase? I don't mean to sound like a dick but I'm just thinking "oh god what if I get over this and it's too late"
I realised I was bisexual when I was 12 and everyone ever told me it was a phase but hells no it wasn't

And like, when I was younger, I always thought I should be a guy somehow, and then later on I was like "sod it I'll stay a girl" and only recently (past few months) has the thing about wanting to be male come back properly
I don't want it to be a phase I'll be so goddamn annoyed at myself if it is


----------



## surskitty

I have no idea as to my true gender preferences, so yeah, maybe I think a bit that it's a phase.  Not that ... I can really tell in any direction anyway.  I kind of figure that some day I'll wake up and it'll make sense.


----------



## spaekle

Jolty said:


> ALSO I have a question for you all
> do you/did you ever fear that your queerness might be a phase? I don't mean to sound like a dick but I'm just thinking "oh god what if I get over this and it's too late"


The possibility of this has occurred to me several times. In my case, it manifested as something that could very well have _been_ a phase - I started asking my friends to call me "Mr. Crafton" in 8th grade and thought I only liked it due to the quirkiness of being called a "Mister". 

Theeeeen as I entered high school, I got severely depressed, hated my body, felt as though the world was trying to force me to be something I wasn't, typical trans angst etc etc. I confided all of this in one friend, and she was actually suggesting I may be trans before I really gave it any thought (as back then I was still at the "maybe I can still turn out all right for mommy and daddy" stage.) The depression's become a lot less over the years, but I still feel like I'm not really living the way I need to. 

But, yeah, it's been well over four or five years. If this is a phase, it's a damn long one.

Only slightly ontopic: I kind of fluctuate back and forth between "I'M A MANNNNNNN" and "I'm definitely on the male end of the spectrum, okay, but eh fuck it". Damn hormones.


----------



## Dewgong

i've also been thinking about my own gender quite a bit lately. i'm not sure. i don't feel completely female, (never exactly did), but... i'm not sure. i couldn't say which end of the spectrum i feel i'm at. confusing. eh. i don't know what to do.


----------



## ultraviolet

I've been thinking that my bisexuality could be a phase because it's only really relatively recently that I've really thought of myself as such - as in the last few years or so. But I really like women and men so idk. It's weird because I'm attracted to women.. as a man? as well as a woman but then I'm attracted to men as both genders so I don't really know. I think if I'd had any sexual experience with women then I'd probably understand better. 

it would be cool to have a penis, I think. But I don't think I'd ever get surgery or identify myself as a man, because I like being a woman a lot.


----------



## Minish

I don't think my bisexuality/possible lesbianism could be a phase. It's developed rather gradually, like I never used to know gays seriously existed, then I realised you could be, then I realised I probably was. There's never really been a moment since I was about 12 or something (which was when I became friends with a bisexual person and realised queerness existed) when I thought I could be straight after all. I've never thought this could be a phase.

It's always been bisexuality vrs. lesbianism. Heterosexuality is pretty much a definite no for me.


----------



## Harlequin

Idk. I thought it might be. then it wasn't. 

so uh.


----------



## Bluberry Bat

Spaekle Oddberry said:


> The possibility of this has occurred to me several times. In my case, it manifested as something that could very well have _been_ a phase - I started asking my friends to call me "Mr. Crafton" in 8th grade and thought I only liked it due to the quirkiness of being called a "Mister".
> 
> Theeeeen as I entered high school, I got severely depressed, hated my body, felt as though the world was trying to force me to be something I wasn't, typical trans angst etc etc. I confided all of this in one friend, and she was actually suggesting I may be trans before I really gave it any thought (as back then I was still at the "maybe I can still turn out all right for mommy and daddy" stage.) The depression's become a lot less over the years, but I still feel like I'm not really living the way I need to.
> 
> But, yeah, it's been well over four or five years. If this is a phase, it's a damn long one.
> 
> Only slightly ontopic: I kind of fluctuate back and forth between "I'M A MANNNNNNN" and "I'm definitely on the male end of the spectrum, okay, but eh fuck it". Damn hormones.


This is like REALLY similar to me, back early on I was all "Ugh I wish I wasn't like this I don't think its right ugh" but I kept quiet because everyone always tries to tell you "Oh it's a phase :U do your homework".
So I started toying around with female roles, first was when a group from my school were all playing a game we had set up a school server for I kept making girl characters and they're all like "Why're you a girl?" and I would say "I like being a girl :V " and they would go "......kay then" but they started treating me with a less boyish attitude. (And no they couldn't use the "You just like the obligatory female game character boobs and bikini armour" because, well, I didn't. They were like WHOA YOUR CHARACTERS WEARING SOMETHING.)

Then I hit about the highschoolish-age and sunk down hated myself hated society and the world tried to wear girly things to look androgynous (I already wore lots of.. "Manly Pink" so it didn't raise particularly sudden questions) and started yelling at my parents for calling me "Boy" to which they always said OH ITS JUST A JOKE A TERM OF ENDEARMENT STOP BEING SO SENSITIVE and then I nearly hacked off my nethers with a serrated bread knife because "Men don't have feelings" and all.

((CC: "You just can't get rid of it, can you? I agree. :/" - I beg to differ))

So I told them I hated being a boy, not just being called boy, and they were all OH, SHIT. FUUUUUUUUUUUUUU-
But they were the ones who a bit later informed me of transgenderism, I didn't know of it previously. Pretty much it's spiked downhill, and though the depression and wing-wong threats with a knife have calmed down I still feel very wrong in a lot of cases. The hormone treatments help tons (And I always feel like an ass bringing them up D: ) but I'll still be between myself. So yeah if it's a phase it's a damn long one.


----------



## Alexi

I don't really know if any of my feelings are phases or not. I've only recently decided that I prefer penises over vaginas and that trannies turn me on. I have gone through phases of transexualism, and in fact I am right now. At least I think it's a phase. It has been before. So I'm just gonna stick with cross-dressing for now.


----------



## Dewgong

tranny and trannies are two of my least favourite words in the english language.


----------



## ultraviolet

I couldn't agree more.


----------



## octobr

Nor could I. Not only are they terrible-sounding words but they're fairly offensive. 

I dunno about the phase thing. I mean, I never really _acknowledged_ what was going on till recently ... I assumed nothing wrong, you know, I was a kid and a tomboy and whatever, nothing mattered since I didn't have a lot of friends anyways, and I _am_ a dancer... which kinda sucks there. I don't think it is though. I've always wanted solid masculinity.


----------



## Dewgong

aww i saw a big mob of people holding big signs (i mean BIG signs) saying stuff like "REJECT RE. 71" (which is gay marriage and rights for washington state) "ONE MAN ONE WOMAN" "IT'S NOT LOVE" etc. 

it pissed me off and my grandma was like totally supporting them ~_~


----------



## Wyvern

Dewgong said:


> aww i saw a big mob of people holding big signs (i mean BIG signs) saying stuff like "REJECT RE. 71" (which is gay marriage and rights for washington state) "ONE MAN ONE WOMAN" "IT'S NOT LOVE" etc.
> 
> it pissed me off and my grandma was like totally supporting them ~_~


Kill them...kill them all...they don't deserve to live


----------



## Alexi

Wyvern said:


> Kill them...kill them all...they don't deserve to live


Calm down there, it's just an opinion. Make love, not war.


----------



## Wyvern

Alexi said:


> Calm down there, it's just an opinion. Make love, not war.


I know, just being dramatic :P


----------



## Peter Shadeslayer

;] They'll learn...

We'll show them. ;3


----------



## Dinru

Peter Shadeslayer said:


> ;] They'll learn...
> 
> We'll show them. ;3


xD "Spaghetti is straight too until you heat it up", amirite?


----------



## Dewgong

srsly and one of my neighbors has one of those signs

...they're huge. like... those little "vote for blah" signs in peoples yards, it's like those x10 in size. way unneccesary.


----------



## spaekle

^ I'd put up my own snarky sign that's not-so-subtly directed at them. They couldn't do anything about it. :v


----------



## Dewgong

i would totally do that. i also see some god hates fags stickers going around on some peoples "yes re. 71" signs. sticking stickers on other people's signs is not a cool thing to do.

they were protesting on the street again and i got stopped at a redlight, with them on my side. i frowned at them, and flipped them off in a non-noticeable way. they saw me too. :3


----------



## octobr

'i frowned at them'

That's adorable.


----------



## Wyvern

I found a gay bar today ^_^ It had bright rainbow flags outside :3


----------



## Munchkin

There was this girl in my school last year that I really like - I'd popped into this club quickly just to mention her and that one kiss we shared (she's straight, by the way). But I've transferred and I have a boyfriend now. I'd told him, though, that I'm bi, but he doesn't mind as long as I don't take anything too seriously with anyone else, girl or guy.

So I haven't spoken to this girl in a long while - since maybe last June. But she's finally on AIM! And I told her about this dream I had, of her, and the tone I get from her reply (with tons of exclamation points) was a happy/excited tone. And then she said she misses me a lot! So, as a joke, I asked, "It's really boring without me, huh?" And she actually said that it has been! Boring at that school without me, I mean.

Is she turning for me? I hope so! <3
But...I have a boyfriend =/

Just wanted to pop in and report that hehe =3


----------



## Dewgong

there's a gay bar in seattle and it's gigantic (obv. there's one in seattle, but this one was so great) and there's big rows of rainbow flags. when i was there for a week i could see it from my hotel window, it was so much fun to see.


----------



## Wyvern

I found a gay bar called The Wickham and it has rainbow flags outside too :3

It's not a place you'd go to on your own though and I have no one to go with T_T


----------



## Vladimir Putin's LJ

There's a gay bar at every street corner downtown here but I live in Homoland so er.


----------



## Dewgong

i'd go to one if i... could


----------



## Harlequin

The gay bars in Swansea are terrible. The gays inside them are ugly. 

and like. they're full of gays.


----------



## Almost Eric

I went to one! :D In Edinburgh fufufu. I can't remember the name, CC Blooms or something. It was pretty awesome but obviously it was an "under age" thing where they let us all in for a Halloween party for a couple of hours before chucking us out derp. :B But we left early because my friend and I are awkward.

Maybe I'm just blind but it wasn't very obvious to me that it was a gay bar though. Even on the inside.

But the gay bar across the street from where my friend lives/I was staying is so obvious that when I first stayed with her we stood outside it swooning for like ten minutes. idek.

RAMBLING ASIDE GAY BARS ARE AWESOME despite being utterly confused about my orientation now that I figured out my gender. :x


----------



## Vladimir Putin's LJ

Harlequin said:


> and like. they're full of gays.


gross


----------



## Harlequin

Vladimir Putin's LJ said:


> gross


I know right?? who likes being near gays?????


----------



## Minish

Lulz, I had a dream a while ago that there was a gay bar in my town. It was awesome.

I've never even seen one in real life. And there probably aren't many at all in my incredibly lame, conservative county. DX


----------



## Harlequin

Where do you live, again? There are gay bars in pretty much all cities. Towns, probably not unless they're like uber gay or something.

I know there's no gay bar in Neath or Port Talbot, but there might be one in Bridgend idk.


----------



## Minish

Lincolnshire. :(
Apparently there is one gay bar in Lincoln.


----------



## Dewgong

the gay bar where i live is totally great

but the one in seattle is amazing it's gigantic and it makes me happy


----------



## EvilCrazyMonkey

There are no gay bars whatsoever where I live. But there may be one in a pseudocity about an hour south, and I think my friend mentioned one in a place about an hour north. I've never actually seen one in real life (or, if I have, I didn't recognize it as one).


----------



## Drowzee64

I once passed by this place called the "Rainbow Club" or something downtown.It was near the gay side of Houston, (Montrose) so I'm putting two and two together here. There was also a bar with hot pink fences, I guess it's for the campier people.

I seriously had no idea that Houston of all cities had a gay side of town until 2 weeks ago. This is awesome.


----------



## Wyvern

I found this place called Open Doors which is actually government funded apparently o.o

It specialises in connecting and supporting LGBT teens and their families.


----------



## Harlequin

Yeah, those sorts of organisations exist. They're cool I guess.

Most cities have a gay area. It might be small but it's generally *there*. Even crazy places like Afghanistan have gay districts. ... they're just, uh. secret.


----------



## Vladimir Putin's LJ

So.
Guess who ordered a binder today.

I have a bunch of gendertalk to post but pfft it's boring and blah :c I'll just get a livejournal or summin. Biggest thing is: my shrink's a bitch who makes no effort to get where I'm coming from and I'm beign pathetic and snipping off my own hair at the back of my head because it's getting long. No one's noticed so-far but I'm not stopping because it's a lot more comfy this way. I'm also working on forming the school's GSA but I don't know whether that's a good thing or if it makes me a complete faggot.

Question since we're on a gay bar topic and it's kind of related: what do you guys think of Pride? Is it still a useful demonstration, still as relevant as it was when it was still called a march instead of a parade, or is it an excuse to get wasted and dance in pink underwear (nothing wrong about that either)?
Personally, I've been to one Pride march and plan on maybe going to next year's if I'm here, and while I think they're still important because many people get discriminated against and homosexuality is still illegal in many countries and things, but on the other hand I think they've lost a lot of their meaning, especially for younger gays who just don't really make efforts or fight for their rights because a) they've got them and/or b) they assume others will do the fighting for them, which is great, in a way, because it shows we've come pretty far, but... I don't know, I think it's a bit of a shame that it's more of a giant rave than a demonstration.

But I'm more of a protester than a party-goer so I suck either way :v


----------



## Harlequin

I don't think Pride is particularly relevant any more. It's always nice, yeah, but we don't *have* to be here and queer. We have to be here and *people*. The point now is to prove that we're people just like everyone else, and some of the shit that goes on at Pride doesn't really happen anywhere else...

I think the time for Pride has passed, but that doesn't mean I think Pride parades are bad. I just think they're unnecessary at this point and we need to fight for equality in other, less faggoty, ways.


----------



## octobr

god i wish i had money my jealousy is endless


----------



## spaekle

Pride events aren't a bad _idea_, but I think a lot of the time they just end up being counter-productive. Marching down the street in BDSM gear doesn't really send the message to the public that gays are normal people who just want to live like everyone else, and not some sick fetishists. 

That said, I would consider attending a pride event just to see what it's like and meet people and whatnot, but I couldn't see myself sticking around too long if it got out of hand.

Also, I just found out that my number 1 college choice has an annual drag show. IF I DON'T GET IN.


----------



## Keltena

asldkfjklf;dsa crush on best friend. This is not awkward at all. And I need to learn self-control and stop surreptitiously invading her personal space because FRIENDSHIP IS PLATONIC DAMMIT.

Dx


----------



## Peter Shadeslayer

Salamander, Peter knows how you feel. Crushes on best friends are hard... especially when you they're straight and you're not ;) Perhaps your friendship needs benefits. lmao.


----------



## Keltena

Haha, it might. xD She's not even straight, but BFFs and all that, and I'm more than a little certain that she's, like. Not into me. Soyeah.


----------



## Dinru

:< Aww, poor Salamander. I know how you feel ;~;

You two are best friends, right? Why not just tell her? If she's really your friend, she won't abandon you...


----------



## Keltena

I... I might tell her. I dunno. I guess what's keeping me is that I desperately _don't_ want to make things awkward, even though I know she'd still be my friend, because... well, I value her friendship a lot. =/ Hm.


----------



## Dannichu

So I have something cool to tell you all :)

Right, so I'm part of my university's Amnesty International society, and a few weeks ago, we decided we were going to do a petition for a worthy cause. We boiled it down to two causes; women's rights in Iran, or to put pressure on the Lithuanian government to stop them passing a homophobic law come December. I'm not going to say one of these is more important than the other, but given the time constraint, I thought we should do the second one. And so did all but two people in our 20+ group, which was fairly awesome.

And the petition itself was really great; it took me ages to stop being nervous enough to jump random people to get them to sign, but when I did I found out that people were really nice and I didn't have a single person say no for a reason other than "I'm late for a lecture". I think, out of all of everyone we asked (and we were there for about five hours) only one person said they _didn't_ think gays should have the rights the new law would take away.

In addition to the written petition (for which we got pages and pages of signatures), we also did a photo petition, which is now up at the Amnesty International site here. My photo's about halfway through, about six after the kissing guys (though you can see me in the background of loads, thanks to the unsubtleness of my hat) X3


----------



## Dewgong

i looked at that gallery and it's pretty awesome. glad you got to do that.


----------



## Jolty

That was awesome Danni :D I wish I was there to join in lol
also I want your hat hrrrrg. But I have a rainbow scarf so I'm cool


----------



## Alexi

That's awesome Danni!

Anyone know any sites that have good female crossdressing tips? (clarify: female crossing to male). I looked at some of the sites Verne posted in his epiclinkpost, but they didn't seem very helpful in crossdressing so much. 

I'd very much appreciate it, folks. <3


----------



## Harlequin

I came across this a few days ago. Knowing just how gay everyone here is, I decided to share. This production's vocals leave a bit to be desired, but it's amazing regardless.

It's about a Catholic boarding school (lol, isn't it always?) and two gay boys in attendance. It's a musical (which is why you fags will love it) and quickly became one of my favourite things ever. I downloaded the soundtrack to it. It is love.

I GIVE YOU BARE: THE POP OPERA

It's two hours long and it's all on YouTube. I recommend you all watch it because it is amazing. I felt a whole range of emotions whilst listening to/watching this. Seriously. Watch it. <3


----------



## surskitty

Alexi said:


> That's awesome Danni!
> 
> Anyone know any sites that have good female crossdressing tips? (clarify: female crossing to male). I looked at some of the sites Verne posted in his epiclinkpost, but they didn't seem very helpful in crossdressing so much.
> 
> I'd very much appreciate it, folks. <3


Get a binder and 70% of the rest's making sure you walk correctly, I think.  Girls tend to walk with one foot in front of the other and lean over a little, particularly while walking up stairs.


----------



## octobr

WHAT THE HELL that list didn't have this site on it http://www.ftmguide.org/

lots of your stereotypical passing tips, including how to cut your hair, how to get good fitting suits, etcetcetc


----------



## Alexi

Thanks much Verne! That site's very helpful~


----------



## Harlequin

Hey faggits. Stop marginalising me and my people and watch Bare the Pop Opera. >:(


----------



## Peter Shadeslayer

I watched most of the first one and haven't had time to finish it. You're right, the vocals aren't great but so far it is good :)

You're not being ignored xD


----------



## Harlequin

The vocals on the original off-Broadway soundtrack are lovely. <3 

And good. This whole marginalisation thing is gay.


----------



## EvilCrazyMonkey

That musical is the best. So far I've watched the first three videos on youtube and about five seconds of the fourth and it is wonderful. :D I love the songs so far. Even though the vocals aren't that great, I really like the lead guy's voice. I don't know why, it's just cool or something.

And in other news concerts are great places to meet gay people. :) I've learned from experience.


----------



## Vladimir Putin's LJ

Ffff wanna watch that thing >:c I'll get it loading in some windows and hope I finish my English project quickly. I love musicals intensely so a free one? hell yes

Also just to continue the tradition of 'vlad gets fucking awful shirts': this arrived in the mail last week, a day after this one, except mine's black.

Also re:gay people at concerts: so-far this has been true but to be fair I've been to see Mika, Pet Shop Boys and Morrissey next week so I may be forcing the odds. I could've gone to Dêpeche Mode too, if it wasn't for those meddling kids.


----------



## Wyvern

Vladimir Putin's LJ said:


> Ffff wanna watch that thing >:c I'll get it loading in some windows and hope I finish my English project quickly. I love musicals intensely so a free one? hell yes
> 
> Also just to continue the tradition of 'vlad gets fucking awful shirts': this arrived in the mail last week, a day after this one, except mine's black.
> 
> Also re:gay people at concerts: so-far this has been true but to be fair I've been to see Mika, Pet Shop Boys and Morrissey next week so I may be forcing the odds. I could've gone to Dêpeche Mode too, if it wasn't for those meddling kids.


And their dog? o.o

Well I'm happy to say that I'm happy, I had my first true gay experience <3


----------



## Dewgong

and now i'm out to a pretty decent portion of my family

...not all the way out. as a lesbian, i am though.


----------



## Harlequin

I thought you were a lesbian?


----------



## Jolty

I'm shitting bricks about outing myself as... not-female
Outing myself as bi was easy as piss compared to this

How did they take your coming out Dewgong???


----------



## Dewgong

well i told my grandma, (the one that didn't know), over the phone. we were talking about something pertaining to relationships and i just mentioned, "i thought you might have already had a clue, but i like women." and she kind of tried to "change my mind" a little bit, which doesn't make much sense, but. then she lectured about how hard of a lifestyle choice this is, and i tried to tell her that i didn't choose it, but my point didn't get across very well. she doesn't have too much of a problem with it, i think she's just worried about me ... in the way that you would worry about your grandkid.



			
				Harlequin said:
			
		

> I thought you were a lesbian?


i am but i wanted to talk to them about what i think i made a post about earlier, the not feeling either female or male. there's not much to say about that, i thought they just might want to know at some point. i'm not even sure myself.


----------



## delta7

yeah, Dewgong, my mum kinda reacted the same way at first, but got better. beem out for years (the local paper even did a front page story on me, for some reason...), but it's still odd to talk about.


----------



## Wyvern

delta7 said:


> yeah, Dewgong, my mum kinda reacted the same way at first, but got better. beem out for years (the local paper even did a front page story on me, for some reason...), but it's still odd to talk about.


I'm glad the local paper didn't do that for me O_O

My hometown is very homophobic ;-;


----------



## EvilCrazyMonkey

Some semi-obscure paper in our town did a front page story on a gay adoption. I didn't read it, but I suppose it's better than just a gay person. I had no idea if it was like "well, this is good," or like "well, this is sinful." I kinda want to read it but can't remember what paper or when. I only remember seeing it after I got a haircut. D:

Also with concerts I met like All Time Low, who isn't really gay at all, but they so bashed homophobia when it got quiet and someone shouted "fag." They had a joke about onomatopoeia and how it's a god-awful word to spell. And they didn't like bash it in a way that's like "guys, homophobia hurts people's feelings;" they were more like "dude so what if he can spell? last time I checked he didn't do it with a dick in his mouth." I screamed that I loved them. Alex Gaskarth is so <3. It was epic.


----------



## Peter Shadeslayer

I live in one of those rural homophobic towns. Sooo. xD

My attempted to change my mind, and I attempted to explain to her that it wasn't a choice. Oh well.

I don't think the local paper has done anything homo. Like evar lol.


----------



## Vladimir Putin's LJ

If they had to make an article on every gay in Brussels there'd be nothing else to publish.
There's still some articles about adoption but in general everything's legalized and equal rights are given to all and we haven't sunken into the sea yet so people kind of don't care.

Also guys today I went to mess with my hair and my mum's head.
I showed them an early Beatles John Lennon as a model too and the lady did this somehow but it looks alright I reckon. Except that I STILL look like a broad. I'll get it fixed eventually. Somehow :v get the sides trimmed should work out. Mum nearly had a heart attack but an hour later she's adapted to it ahaha

Also Fed-Ex fucked up my address so my binder's somewhere in a paralel time-frame and I can't pick it up myself because the Fed-Ex building is in the ass-end of nowhere and I can't ask my mum fml
I would take a taxi but I'd like to be able to pay for college.


----------



## octobr

you look awesome vplj 

wish I had your hair. Mine has all that volume and texture bull that girls want, but it makes short hair hell.


----------



## Jolty

Vladimir Putin's LJ said:


> I showed them an early Beatles John Lennon as a model too and the lady did this somehow but it looks alright I reckon. Except that I STILL look like a broad.


I think you look rather androgynous actually. and awesome :)

I need a haircut soon, my hair is waaaaaaaaaaaay too long atm...


----------



## Harlequin

Vladimir Putin's LJ said:


> Also guys today I went to mess with my hair and my mum's head.
> I showed them an early Beatles John Lennon as a model too and the lady did this somehow but it looks alright I reckon. Except that I STILL look like a broad.


Have you tried just not having a vagina? It's worked wonders for me! :D

(No, it looks mannish. It's cool. I mean yeah there's a certain degree of womanliness there but that's unavoidable. You look like a woman man atm.)


----------



## Dewgong

i love your hair. i need to get mine cut really bad.

it's too long.


----------



## octobr

Harlequin said:


> (You look like a woman man atm.)


note to everyone.

This is never a good thing to say.


----------



## Dewgong

yeahhhhhhhhh ...


----------



## octobr

ah got mah hairs cut too

Nice and short. ;3 Wow that was faggotty
but I do smell great


----------



## spaekle

VPLJ looks very cool! My hair is too long now. :[ baww. 

So during TCoD's downtime, I grew some balls. I called my gym coach sexist and walked out on his class when he tried to force me to join an all-girl team; I have since switched into the other gym coach's class, where I sit on the bleachers and draw all period and he gives me points every day because I'm a senior. Good deal there.

I also got my senior picture made. They make the guys wear this stupid fake tuxedo thing while the girls wear this stupid drape that looks like a dress. Why we can't be like every other school in the country and do whatever we want with our senior pictures, I'm really not sure. So I went and bitched to the yearbook editor, and she fed me some BS line about how our school has always done it like this!!!1 or something. So I went back to the photographers and told them the yearbook editor said it was okay for me to wear my collared shirt under the drape. :v If yearbook editor wants to get all butthurt about it and cut my picture out, she's more than welcome to. At least I actually _took_ the picture, unlike the majority of my friends who didn't even show up because they didn't want to deal with the dress code either.


----------



## Vladimir Putin's LJ

Thanks for all the lovely comments guysss. I'll probably have to go back soon to get the back of my hair trimmed, but I'm pretty pleased at how it looks.

SO GUYS. Major development.

I came out to my mum. And she's the one who started it off. I won't go into it too deeply but I think she gets the gist of it and she said she's going to support me no matter what and that I should mention it to my therapist and she'll even e-mail the woman asking her to speak about this with me.
My hands were shaking and I cried a lot but I feel a lot better and I'm so happy to have her support. She's still wondering whether I'm not just uncomfortable with my body due to normal puberty issues but I'm think she'll come round.

Haha, I need some tea now. Phew.


----------



## Kinova

Vlad, that's so great. :D Congratulations. Your hair looks cool, too (and your eyebrows though I couldn't tell you why - they're just splendid).

Err I don't get the whole 'let's not stereotype, children!' thing in schools that then insist on your yearbook photo sort of thing, Speakle. Just... what. Congrats for managing to get around it, though.

Aaaand hopefully nobody remembers the post I made here ages ago. It was something along the lines of 'ASEXUAL END OF' but err.

It was the women. :c They got to me. It's cool, though. I came out to my closer friends like way back at the start of the year and though I suck at it, they were awesome. My family don't know persay but I have heard them discussing it once or twice (woo I'm obvious) and they don't seem very 'kill it with fire', so with any luck they'll be good with it. Ish.


----------



## Flazeah

That's wonderful, VPLJ! And what you did sounds pretty brave, Spaekle. :D And Kinova, congratulations! It's great to have you on the team. Ehehe. Had to say that. Good luck if you decide to tell your family, as well.


----------



## Dewgong

awww hooray vplj i am happy that you did that.


----------



## Harlequin

Let's have a "GO FAGGOTS AND ASSORTED 'ALTERNATIVE LIFESTYLERS'" group hug! :D 

of congratulatoriness or something idk make of it what you will, gaylords.


----------



## ultraviolet

congratulations vplj~ /lamelatepost it's good that she's accepting you and stuff. <3

in other news I think my boyfriend is on the gay side of bisexual but I'm an exception or something? idk


----------



## spaekle

COOL FOR TRANS PEOPLE (MAYBE MOSTLY FTMS?): Science needs to hurry up and discover a tangible personification of itself so I can have sex with it.


----------



## Jolty

Spaekle Oddberry said:


> COOL FOR TRANS PEOPLE (MAYBE MOSTLY FTMS?): Science needs to hurry up and discover a tangible personification of itself so I can have sex with it.


that
is epic
:D


----------



## Harlequin

That's absolutely amazing. The ramifications of this are _immense_. :D


----------



## Bluberry Bat

Hnnnnnngggg FUCK YEAR SCIENCE <3
Ohmanohmanohman


----------



## Keltena

that. Is awesome beyond words. I mean, seriously... I cannot express how thrilled I am to hear about that.


----------



## surskitty

Wow, you know how drama club tends to have a reputation as really, really gay?

Over the past few days, I've seen guys kissing other guys, guys trying to find excuses to crossdress, guys putting on lots of lipstick before kissing everyone, girls slapping other girls' asses, and guys offering lapdances.


I kind of wonder why I didn't join drama club before.


----------



## JackPK

surskitty said:


> Wow, you know how drama club tends to have a reputation as really, really gay?


You know, that's really weird, because in my school, I'm about 90% sure that I'm the only gay guy in drama. There's several lesbians and bisexual girls, but no nonstraight boys but me. Yet the band is full of gay guys. It's utterly bizarre.


----------



## Harlequin

I'm semi-kind-of in negotiations with a guy. Maybe. IDK.


----------



## surskitty

Jack_the_PumpkinKing said:


> You know, that's really weird, because in my school, I'm about 90% sure that I'm the only gay guy in drama. There's several lesbians and bisexual girls, but no nonstraight boys but me. Yet the band is full of gay guys. It's utterly bizarre.


Yeah, see, at my school drama club is really gay and the bands are ... fairly gay, but mainly where there's an overlap between drama and band.


----------



## Dannichu

Wanna read something that'll give you the warm-fuzzies?

Isn't she fantastic? So much better than the bile I saw the Daily Mail spewing when I read their report on Thomas' homosexuality over the guy in front of me on the train's shoulder.


----------



## Simon Harron

Alright, was wondering if there was one!

I'd like to join. I'm pansexual, a recent revelation (thanks to 4chan ironically) and rather gender dysmorphic. I am actually female, but I would much rather be referred to as male. I don't want SRS or any of that. I just cross dress a lot. Just a drag king here, though a poor one. Luckily, as I was browsing the past posts here, I saw that there are links to sites that help in that area, so that's great. ^_^ 

I told my parents that I am bisexual (easier to explain) but I think they have forgotten. o_o It happens; my father forgot I had gotten my ears pierced three months after the fact, even though I wear earrings constantly (big ones, too). Plus it's not like I chat to my parents about all the girls I like.

They don't actively know I'm a transvestite, though I have cross dressed around them. I guess they just don't notice...? They're kind of oblivious. XD I don't know how they'd take it, but I do want to tell them. And I'm planning on crossing to the annual Christmas family reunion. THAT will be exciting!


----------



## Zhorken

Simon Harron said:


> They don't actively know I'm a transvestite, though I have cross dressed around them. I guess they just don't notice...? They're kind of oblivious. XD I don't know how they'd take it, but I do want to tell them. And I'm planning on crossing to the annual Christmas family reunion. THAT will be exciting!


It's pretty much socially accepted for girls to wear guys' clothes.  People, generally oblivious or not, don't tend to perceive it as crossdressing unless you go further and bind your chest or something.  (And even then, binding only works for reactions if the difference is apparent.)


----------



## Dewgong

that's true. nobody seems to think anything's up with the way i dress, and i take it further than... far.


----------



## Harlequin

When girls crossdress it's pretty much just "alternative" or "artsy".


----------



## EvilCrazyMonkey

Hey everyone, I came out to my parents. Yay! I guess. It didn't feel like I though it would have, like it would be freeing or something. It just made me feel really angry and icky. Not the good kind of icky either. The very bad kind of icky. But a good night's rest has made it feel much better.



Jack_the_PumpkinKing said:


> You know, that's really weird, because in my school, I'm about 90% sure that I'm the only gay guy in drama. There's several lesbians and bisexual girls, but no nonstraight boys but me. Yet the band is full of gay guys. It's utterly bizarre.


This is true at our school too. I'm pretty sure nobody (guys, at least) in our drama club are gay, but there were a few gay people in band. Of course, everyone has their suspicions about some of them. Rumors have it there was a group of five guys that cuddled at some party (three, I think, are in drama, and one is in band).


----------



## Harlequin

LOL, cuddling at parties. How tame you guys are. Lots of my friends _made out_ at parties back in the day. One of my friends has still been with more boys than girls. 

TAMENESS

Also don't you hate it when you're talking to a guy who's gay and it's all going well - you hit it off, seem pretty compatible and whatnot - and then out of nowhere he decides he's "bi" and starts seeing a girl? I do. It's fucking annoying.


----------



## Jolty

Lol fake bis. 


Hmmmm only 9-10 months till I go to uni now. I'm still not sure if I should introduce myself to everyone as my guy name... I still look a lot like a girl though. THIS NEEDS FIXING


----------



## Vladimir Putin's LJ

My mother agreed to buy me a suit (yaaay) on the condition that it was a women's suit (booo), and I thought it was better than nothing since I could always wear a tie and look cool. But now she's added a new condition: I have to wear a handkerchief instead of a tie or no suit. And then she insisted that lots of men wear handkerchiefs around their necks, really.
Mum; I'm not doing a Quentin Crisp cosplay, as cool as he was. Don't be a jerk just because you can hang things over my head.

Come on, I don't look that bad!


----------



## Dinru

Vladimir Putin's LJ said:


> Come on, I don't look that bad!


In fact, you look rather snazzy!


----------



## Wyvern

Vladimir Putin's LJ said:


> My mother agreed to buy me a suit (yaaay) on the condition that it was a women's suit (booo), and I thought it was better than nothing since I could always wear a tie and look cool. But now she's added a new condition: I have to wear a handkerchief instead of a tie or no suit. And then she insisted that lots of men wear handkerchiefs around their necks, really.
> Mum; I'm not doing a Quentin Crisp cosplay, as cool as he was. Don't be a jerk just because you can hang things over my head.
> 
> Come on, I don't look that bad!


You look quite masculine actually ^_^

Can't wait till February 13! Epic "Meet the crew" day at Open Doors (www.opendoors.org.au) is going to be epic <333


----------



## Zuu

I don't know what I am :V but I probably belong here

(I've joined this club like three times ~_~)


----------



## Harlequin

It's not even a club, really. It's more of an "LGBT Discussion Thread". 

On that note: _discuss, faggots._


----------



## nyuu

so, Harlequin, them _faggots_. now vaguely cool, if not ~hip~ to be one at both of my schools. What's the atmosphere wherever you're going? Is education gay

(not quite gay enough for bi, zuu ~_~)


----------



## Zuu

I don't mean my sexuality bro


----------



## Harlequin

The atmosphere where I am is "." It's neither bad nor good, but there's this flaming queen who's always in the library. He's a bit annoying but eh.

still there are lots of very hot boys, so.


----------



## Vladimir Putin's LJ

My school's pretty conservative which sucks but at the same time there's like a million gay/bi teachers. It's confusing :c


----------



## Minish

My (female) Communication & Culture teacher went off on a short tangent today about being in a gay bar, and after a clearly dumfounded reaction someone nervously asked, "Uh Miss, w-why were you in a _gay bar_?" to which she said that one of her old uni friends was a gay guy who invited her there. She then went on to talk about how awesome gay bars are.

I love this teacher. :D And she's actually going to be teaching us queer theory next year, yay!


----------



## octobr

I graduated. I don't care about my damn high school anymore, they can suck it. 8]


----------



## Harlequin

Cirrus said:


> My (female) Communication & Culture teacher went off on a short tangent today about being in a gay bar, and after a clearly dumfounded reaction someone nervously asked, "Uh Miss, w-why were you in a _gay bar_?" to which she said that one of her old uni friends was a gay guy who invited her there. She then went on to talk about how awesome gay bars are.
> 
> I love this teacher. :D And she's actually going to be teaching us queer theory next year, yay!


Everyone loves gay bars! The last time I was in a gay bar there was a very hot (well he was hot when he wasn't talking...) barman who served me without asking me for ID. I was like <3 even though I'm 18 because I'd left my ID at home. And he did this _adorable_ thing with his hands that I can't even begin to replicate it was that gay.

Er. Yeah. Also there were Lloyd Daniels posters everywhere advertising a performance in February. I was like "lol he's not even old enough to get in..." but yeah. Gayyy.


----------



## Dannichu

Canterbury has a gay bar... well, I think it's more of a club, actually. Or actually a club that does gay nights some of the time or something. I'm not sure of the details - clubbing's not really my scene (dancing _or_ seals) - but it's called, and I kid you not, G-Spot. Classy. That said, I don't think I've ever heard of a gay club that didn't have a hilarious name.

Kent uni has a decent gay scene, I think - I'm not really part of it, though out of my Amnesty International group (about 25 people, a roughly equal gender split), about half is gay/bi. And everybody's either vegetarian or vegan. And outside of clubs and societies, nobody cares if you're gay/bi.


----------



## Jolty

My school has bugger all really... I'm not bothered though, in 5 months I will be done with it. 

fff I have so much stuff to sort out before going to uni :(


----------



## Dinru

Coming out around here is akin to castrating yourself with a cheese grater, and the town I live in is tiiiiny, so no gay bars or LGBT groups in my area.


----------



## Zuu

This one out gay guy here is ridiculed pretty much constantly and is talked about behind is back all the time. We're pretty much a Christian public school, there are fliers for prayer groups and youth groups and shit all over the place. so uh


----------



## Wyvern

I come out to people I trust with no problems...mum comes out FOR me to people SHE trusts, but never asks me if I want them to know or not >_>

At least she's supportive, as are all my friends. Even a Canadian one that said he was completely homophobic O.o


----------



## Harlequin

Dannichu said:


> Canterbury has a gay bar... well, I think it's more of a club, actually. Or actually a club that does gay nights some of the time or something. I'm not sure of the details - clubbing's not really my scene (dancing _or_ seals) - but it's called, and I kid you not, G-Spot. Classy. That said, I don't think I've ever heard of a gay club that didn't have a hilarious name.
> 
> Kent uni has a decent gay scene, I think - I'm not really part of it, though out of my Amnesty International group (about 25 people, a roughly equal gender split), about half is gay/bi. And everybody's either vegetarian or vegan. And outside of clubs and societies, nobody cares if you're gay/bi.


None of the gay bars in Swansea or Cardiff have fun names (to my knowledge). :( They're just gay but not like innuendo gay. "Pulse." "Champers." Ffff.


----------



## octobr

Wyvern said:


> I come out to people I trust with no problems...mum comes out FOR me to people SHE trusts, but never asks me if I want them to know or not >_>
> 
> At least she's supportive, as are all my friends. Even a Canadian one that said he was completely homophobic O.o


Agh, I hate that. Mom always hints it at people I don't know and I'm like, hi, this is _sort of a personal issue._ Alas.


----------



## Drowzee64

I'm trying to figure out how to come out of the closet without advertising my sexuality. This is Texas, and chances are that at least one member of my (kind of redneck tbh) family won't accept my homosexuality. I only want a few trusted people to know about it, but rumors spread quickly and inevitably where I live. I think I'm being paranoid, but... Any advice?


----------



## Dinru

Just sort of mention it. Don't bring it up, but if the subject comes up, just say something like "Well, as the token gay guy, I..." or something?


----------



## PK

Okay so i know this is awfully late but I want to join. I'm straight, but i know a ton of gay people and they're all awesome. :D


----------



## Jolty

Drowzee64 said:


> I'm trying to figure out how to come out of the closet without advertising my sexuality. This is Texas, and chances are that at least one member of my (kind of redneck tbh) family won't accept my homosexuality. I only want a few trusted people to know about it, but rumors spread quickly and inevitably where I live. I think I'm being paranoid, but... Any advice?


maybe tell the members of your family who you're sure won't spread it? or if you think they will just like... ask them not to I dunno :(



quick update on my own life: came out (third time lucky lol) to my dad & stepmum about being trans, they were supportive, my stepmum gave me some stuff to read (she's a nurse), my dad suggested I go see my doctor, I did, I start counselling sessions of some sort on the 4th of February
woohoo


----------



## Drowzee64

I came out to my counselor today... not that it's an accomplishment or anything. You're supposed to tell counselors everything, after all.

I'm going to become "the gay kid" at school no matter how I come out. No matter how discretely I mention it, the whole school is going to know. Homosexuality is an extremely hot topic in my area right now and it is inevitable. I don't like it, but that's the way it works.


----------



## Minish

Holy crap

I just found out my childhood friend of 4 years is gay

I had _no idea_

My mind has been blown. :O Is this stupid, to be so surprised? I know I should be all normal and 'so what?' about it, which I am, it's just... really shocking, for some reason. :/

Maybe it's because I had a crush on him for a while. X3 I'm really happy for him, though, he sounds really open about it now that we've got back in contact again.

Still, though. _Whoa_.

Also, some other random guy said he was gay in Communication & Culture today. Nobody seemed surprised. The teacher said sarcastically, "Let's have a party" in a 'so what?' kind of way (we were talking about campness though, to be fair). He is someone I would expect to be homophobic judging by how... I dunno, popular he is? Most people at my school used to seem so homophobic, nobody blinked an eyelid...

Ahh, this gives me hope <3


----------



## Harlequin

Yeah, it happens. People you think are homophobic are generally like "lol who cares". In a similar vein I discovered someone I was in college with in my first year is gay. He was loudly, obnoxiously and violently homophobic (which was weird, since we got along like a house on fire...) and I sat next to his girlfriend in French.

He went to university (with his girlfriend) and then broke up with her and came out as gay. She's now his "best friend" ie fag hag. I laughed so hard when I found out. It's, like, "lol". TBH I suspected he was in Narnia when I first met him, but obv I never said anything because ... yeah.

We got along really well until his homophobic manner and fascist beliefs pissed me off too much. Oops.


----------



## Drowzee64

^lol, I had that happen to me as well. This one guy who constantly harassed me about being gay is now an open transsexual. Not saying that EVERY homophobic person is gay, but it happens.


----------



## Dannichu

You know what I love? Coming out in such a way that only LGBT people get it.

Case in point: My Mental Health lecturer was discussing how men used to be able to admit their wives to mental asylums with no evidence, and mentioned that there were a couple of novels about it, including "a book by an alumnus from this university, but I forget her name", so I said "is it Sarah Waters?" and she asked me what the book title was, so I said that it was Fingersmith, and it was one of my favourite books (it is - I have it signed :D), and about three other girls in the lecture hall gave me a 'knowing smile', it was awesome XD

Enjoying Sarah Waters novels is _the_ British lesbian litmus test.


----------



## octobr

I have never heard of her. *L8!!*

Being a girl sucks cocks, as does waiting for Khaos Komix to _keep on with this climactic moment ahh_


----------



## Wyvern

Eep! Meeting a guy today for the first time, I'm so nervous T_T


----------



## Vladimir Putin's LJ

Verne said:


> Being a girl sucks cocks, as does waiting for Khaos Komix to _keep on with this climactic moment ahh_


omg I know right Tab better not freak on us again >:/ need Monday update post-haste.

In other news I got a binder and it is too large and doesn't squash anything enough fml


----------



## octobr

Vladimir Putin's LJ said:


> omg I know right Tab better not freak on us again >:/ need Monday update post-haste.
> 
> In other news I got a binder and it is too large and doesn't squash anything enough fml


of course tom is so hardcore he'd be like AND NOW I AM A SUPERHERO or something. tom. o tom.

sucks :c I hear sizing is hard to do with binders ... where'd you get it from? I think some let you return them for sizing issues.


----------



## ZimD

not even going to try and update the list of people who joined this in the like year that i've been inactive on this website for.

i came out to a friend a few days ago and he was pretty cool with it so that was nice. (though i really didnt expect him to NOT be cool with it, since he's a hardcore liberal atheist)

considering coming out to like everyone but idk if i want to yet, i know that i want to at some point in the near future just to get it out of the way since i'm sick of keeping something secret that has no reason to be kept secret beyond potential hatred and ignorance from other people. idk how i would do it either which sucks because i want to try and think of a good way by the end of 8th grade, def before the end of freshman year, just because i don't want to be like a senior in high school before i tell people that i love the cock.

any advice on how to grow some balls and just fucking do it?


----------



## Vladimir Putin's LJ

Verne said:


> of course tom is so hardcore he'd be like AND NOW I AM A SUPERHERO or something. tom. o tom.
> 
> sucks :c I hear sizing is hard to do with binders ... where'd you get it from? I think some let you return them for sizing issues.


A PRETENDER?!?

T-Kingdom who unfortunately only does refunds if you re-send the binder in its original packed state. I could have tried to fake it but the box got tossed rrr. Will probably just buy a Medium one next time :/ this one just kind of binds it too low so I have a weird tumor on top of my chest. LOOKIN GOOD BRO. Can't even wear it right now due to throat infection so build-up of fluid in the lungs would be horrible.

I hadn't told my mum I'd bought it and she found it today when I was standing like a foot away from her. lol. She looked a bit disturbed and then went back to normal and then came to talk to me and tell me she was concerned because she was afraid I'd bought PILLZ on the same site. (pills? muuum that's the other kind of tranny)
Her policy is basically 'just wait until you're overage and away from this school because college is magical acceptance land and surely no one will find it odd that you're slowly turning into a man as the year progresses'. Which is kind of. rargh. All her psychiatrist friends (including my own shrink, unfortunately) have told her transkids are too retarded to know what they want so they have to wait until they're in college so they're SURE (my convictions about something as serious as my gender will totally change in 1.5 years). Awesome.

Zim, I guess it depends on how your school is, in general. For instance, my mother doesn't want me to come out because my school's pretty conservative and she's scared they might... _call me names!!!_ oh no I've never had that before in my life help.
If you go to a tough anti-gay school it might be wise to wait until you leave it, but if it's just mildly 'phobic and/or you've got tough skin, try to get it out with when you think is a good idea. When people are calm, you're having a good conversation, etc. Right before a test or when everyone's pissed off due to some sort of unfair decision is not the best of times. Basically, common sense I suppose. I can't give much advice since I've only come out to three people and two of those have fucked up (the thrid being my mother who just doesn't really get it I guess). If it's an open and accepting school full of normal people then you're alright.
Good luck!


----------



## ZimD

it's only mildly homophobic really. some kid got outed recently (his sister mentioned something about it on his facebook wall and then other people saw it and found out, or something) and people make fun of him behind his back of course but really they don't say too much shit to his face. it's not totally accepting but it's not like i'd get called a faggot on a daily basis and get beaten up or anything too bad like that. i was also thinking that i'm probably just going to casually mention it during a conversation with someone or something like that. i've came out to 4 people and that's pretty much how i did it with all of them

thanksss


----------



## octobr

o tom :c i wish you had said you _were_ a transformer

parentals are silly but also very worried
I think it's sort of important that they go wahhh and freak out, since it's how parents show they care. Cause they kinda suck.

meanwhile my mom still calls me 'princess' and 'girly girl' and wtf


----------



## Dannichu

I don't have the link, but there was an article in some British newspaper (I'm betting the farm it was the DM, though) a few weeks ago about the youngest trans kid (17/18, I think) getting a MtF operation funded by the NHS and the comments were pretty much split between "He's too YOUNG to know what he wants!" and "Taxpayers shouldn't have to pay because this guy wants to be a girl!". Charming. :/

On the plus side, I forget if anyone's posted this before, but I've rediscovered it thanks to my newfound love of West Wing (and, by extention, Allison Janney), and it works as a cheer-up! vid for myself...

So imagine if someone took everyone good in the world (okay, not everyone, but a decent amount of them; Jack Black, Neil Patrick Harris, Elliot off Scrubs and way more) and put them in a hilarious, satirical, pro-gay 3-minute musical.


----------



## octobr

Bahahahaha that.


----------



## Zuu

that was awesome.


----------



## Drowzee64

I made my sexuality (and atheism, yay for two closets) public to friends on my profile... after removing all family from my friends list, of course. My brother is the only one left because he knows and is OK with it.

You'd be surprised at how many people are liberal enough to support gay marriage in Houston, Texas, of all places. It's mainly my generation and people of various minority groups, but we have a lot of those here so it's all good. Still gonna have to deal with my homophobic older family members, but I don't care very much at this point. Being myself > acceptance from haters


----------



## Dannichu

Yeah, I've heard that while the Southern US states are regarded as, like, homophobia central, the big cities are more okay with it. Good for you! :D

The more I hear about people getting hateful comments from older family members, the more I'm glad I don't have any old family members (few people in my family live past 60; my oldest family member is my dad's sister, at 55), and then I feel really bad.


----------



## surskitty

Wait, what?


----------



## Drowzee64

Dannichu said:


> Yeah, I've heard that while the Southern US states are regarded as, like, homophobia central, the big cities are more okay with it. Good for you! :D
> 
> The more I hear about people getting hateful comments from older family members, the more I'm glad I don't have any old family members (few people in my family live past 60; my oldest family member is my dad's sister, at 55), and then I feel really bad.


The problems with my family are: 

-It has a history of long life, so there are many old people in my family. In fact, two of my great-grandparents and all of my grandparents are still alive.
-A good portion of my family lives in Stereotypically Racist, Sexist, and Homophobic Rural Texas™.
-I've heard them say and do some seriously messed-up shit. My mom totally flipped out when my brother and I were acting somewhat sexual with our friends for the lulz and my dad once refused to watch a movie about two guys who were only _pretending_ to be gay just because of the gay theme. The crowning jewel? My mom, dad, and brother were talking with my aunt about a cross dresser that they saw in D.C. and my aunt replied "Some people are just messed up in the head..." in an amused and mocking tone of voice. No one called her out on it.

Ugh... it took forever for me to accept myself, probably because of these family issues and the fact that I was disgusted by gay people just like mommy and daddy for the longest time. Then my attractions developed. I was very confused about my sexuality at the Age In Which Hormones Make Everyone Bicurious, and when I finally figured it out almost a year ago, I obsessed over it for the longest time... I still am, but to a lesser extent. Does this kind of shit really happen in 2010, or am I alone?

Well, it could be worse. If I was trans, I would probably be kicked out if I told my family.


----------



## EvilCrazyMonkey

Drowzee64 said:


> The problems with my family are:
> 
> -It has a history of long life, so there are many old people in my family. In fact, two of my great-grandparents and all of my grandparents are still alive.
> -A good portion of my family lives in Stereotypically Racist, Sexist, and Homophobic Rural Texas™.


Well, I can't say I know how it is to have family in Texas (they're worse than SC :/ ). But doesn't Houston have a gay mayor now?




Drowzee64 said:


> -I've heard them say and do some seriously messed-up shit. My mom totally flipped out when my brother and I were acting somewhat sexual with our friends for the lulz and my dad once refused to watch a movie about two guys who were only _pretending_ to be gay just because of the gay theme. The crowning jewel? My mom, dad, and brother were talking with my aunt about a cross dresser that they saw in D.C. and my aunt replied "Some people are just messed up in the head..." in an amused and mocking tone of voice. No one called her out on it.


Yeah, stuff like this does really suck. I know what you mean, though. I've had to listen to my stepdad say that he wouldn't hire anyone gay, and if his current employees turned out to be gay, he'd fire them. The only thing to do is grin and bear it unless you're certain your family won't freak out if you defend gay people.
Well, a friend of mine is very religious and refused to watch Juno because it involves a teen pregnancy. She's a good person, but that still annoyed me a bit. (Of course, I'm not saying that your parents are necessarily good people. From what you've said, they sound like jerks, to be honest.)



Drowzee64 said:


> Ugh... it took forever for me to accept myself, probably because of these family issues and the fact that I was disgusted by gay people just like mommy and daddy for the longest time. Then my attractions developed. I was very confused about my sexuality at the Age In Which Hormones Make Everyone Bicurious, and when I finally figured it out almost a year ago, I obsessed over it for the longest time... I still am, but to a lesser extent. Does this kind of shit really happen in 2010, or am I alone?
> 
> Well, it could be worse. If I was trans, I would probably be kicked out if I told my family.


I was notorious for calling people gay and faggot in elementary/middle school, but now I'm notorious for calling people out on doing it. :/ The past is the past, and you're obviously not thinking like you once did (which is very good), so there's no reason to criticize you for it.
To answer your question, yes, stuff does happen, unfortunately. I'm stuck with my homophobic family, too. I guess that it's important you find a place to go if things get rough. I have, and I always think that if my dad beats me up, or if they kick me out, or if I get into another argument about gay rights with them, that I can simply stay with decent people. It's very nice and reassuring.


----------



## Dannichu

It's terrible, but yes, stuff like that does happen in 2010. It was mentioned by someone in another thread that gays now have full equality or something, but we're still miles off equality on paper, and even further from equality within society. We'll get there in time, but, like this article shows, we've still got a ways to go.

Guh, it's so annoying when someone says something homophobic and you want so badly to call them out on it and then don't. It bugs me for the rest of the day if I just let something really offensive slide, but if someone's joking around and comes out with something really sexist or homophobic or racist or whatever, it's so, so hard to tell them that they're being an idiot, especially when you know it'll only make them laugh at you. I've been on a bus and told fourteen-year-old kids off for calling each other gay as an insult and/or writing "GAY" in the condensation on the windows (okay, less "telling off" and more "nobody thinks you're big and clever and you actually look like an idiot"), but it's so much harder when the person who's saying it is a friend, and harder still when they're in a position of authority. 
In my Sex Gender Socialisation class last term, I asked my seminar leader if we'd be doing any reading of stuff by transgender people, since they have an above-average awareness of the pressure the gender binary puts on people, and she went on a speil about how "weird" she thought transgender people were. :/

It's not all bad, though - I get emails from my uni's LGBT society and even though I don't go to the meetings and such, I like to keep up with what's happening, and they got a motion passed to have toilets in the soon-to-be-rebuit nightclub on-campus for transgender people.

Also, this is taken from the most recent email, and it sounds absolutely fantastic:



> I recently met with the Senior Health Advisor for East and Coastal Kent who has informed that a trial of new HIV testing is currently being run in Canterbury.
> 
> This test is completely groundbreaking - taking just a pinch of blood from your finger rather than a full blood test, and gets the results within 20 minutes, rather than the current standard of 7 days. It also can detect the presence of the HIV virus in the human system quicker than the standard test, which has a 3 month window from infection.
> 
> The trial of the test is being run so that they can compare the accuracy of the new test to that of the old test (therefore those undergoing the trial have to do both) - but the new test is completely safe. The trial is there to hopefully prove that the new test is ready to become standard practise within sexual health testing.
> 
> The trial is only open to those who are considered a 'high risk' in contracting the HIV virus - which therefore puts men who have sex with men in that bracket. I would please urge all the men who recieve this email to go and get the test done - not only will you be providing a big help for the NHS in order to get the test standardised, but you will be making a sensible decision by getting tested anyway!


Awesome, no?


----------



## Harlequin

Yo, transpeople of tcodf. specifically ftms

http://www.balian-buschbaum.de/galerie/wie-mich-die-welt-sieht.html this guy is ftm

found this earlier whilst looking at lists of hot men and stuff.


----------



## spaekle

He's not bad-looking. :v

I can't read German; is he a model or what?


----------



## Wyvern

Dannichu said:


> It's terrible, but yes, stuff like that does happen in 2010. It was mentioned by someone in another thread that gays now have full equality or something, but we're still miles off equality on paper, and even further from equality within society. We'll get there in time, but, like this article shows, we've still got a ways to go.


Gays have no equality here in Australia, though that's the way it should stay tbqh. We have an organisation called PFLAG (Parents For Lesbians And Gays) who are fighting for equal marriage rights. This is a stupid idea.

Two gay guys living together as individuals get far more benefits from the government than a married couple do. In that sense, we're actually at a _benefit_ over straights. Now, I understand that some people want to be married, but a lot of us don't. If you love someone enough, there's no need to fork out thousands of dollars to say a few words and get a piece of paper.

I facepaw 9001 times at my friends when they say they're going to attend a gay marriage rights march, especially the ones who still go through Centrelink (look it up). I know two people in a "de facto" relationship that absolutely HATE the idea of equal marriage rights, and I definitely don't want to lose my benefits because some idiots who are _*parents*_ of LGBTs, not LGBTs themselves, want equality. Sorry parents, but to give us equality, you'd have to take away, not give.


So yeah, that's my opinion.


----------



## Minish

Wyvern said:


> Gays have no equality here in Australia, though that's the way it should stay tbqh. We have an organisation called PFLAG (Parents For Lesbians And Gays) who are fighting for equal marriage rights. This is a stupid idea.
> 
> Two gay guys living together as individuals get far more benefits from the government than a married couple do. In that sense, we're actually at a _benefit_ over straights. Now, I understand that some people want to be married, but a lot of us don't. If you love someone enough, there's no need to fork out thousands of dollars to say a few words and get a piece of paper.
> 
> I facepaw 9001 times at my friends when they say they're going to attend a gay marriage rights march, especially the ones who still go through Centrelink (look it up). I know two people in a "de facto" relationship that absolutely HATE the idea of equal marriage rights, and I definitely don't want to lose my benefits because some idiots who are _*parents*_ of LGBTs, not LGBTs themselves, want equality. Sorry parents, but to give us equality, you'd have to take away, not give.
> 
> 
> So yeah, that's my opinion.


_What_? What about people who don't care about having to pay more taxes if it means they can legally be called husband/wife to eachother?

I don't understand what getting equal marriage rights would suddenly force all those gay people living together as 'individuals' to get married and pay all of their taxes. Why on earth would _you_ lose benefits just because all the other LGBT people who want social equality get it?

Also, social equality =/= economic equality. Personally speaking? I'd prefer social equality. Shock horror if I'd have to pay the same taxes as straight married couples, it's not like being on the same level is what LGBT is all about!


----------



## Jolty

Harlequin said:


> Yo, transpeople of tcodf. specifically ftms
> 
> http://www.balian-buschbaum.de/galerie/wie-mich-die-welt-sieht.html this guy is ftm
> 
> found this earlier whilst looking at lists of hot men and stuff.


wow
I have no other words lmao 


...how many FTMs do we have at tcod anyway?


----------



## Harlequin

like ... four? idk

ALSO Ricky Martin is officially gay

cue 'this isn't news'


----------



## Dannichu

Uh, ditto pretty much everything Cirrus said. Why on earth should gays get benefits that straights don't? I don't get it o.o



Harlequin said:


> ALSO Ricky Martin is officially gay
> 
> cue 'this isn't news'


My friend told me this today. Then we gave a semi-public performance of Livin' La Vida Loca in the middle of Victoria Place in London to celebrate.

...it was one of those things where you had to be there.


----------



## Harlequin

No, I can totes appreciate it and I'd have joined in if possible. But I mean, it's not exactly *news*, is it? I've assumed he's gay for years, now. He was always slightly too fabulous to be straight.


----------



## Wyvern

Cirrus said:


> _What_? What about people who don't care about having to pay more taxes if it means they can legally be called husband/wife to eachother?
> 
> I don't understand what getting equal marriage rights would suddenly force all those gay people living together as 'individuals' to get married and pay all of their taxes. Why on earth would _you_ lose benefits just because all the other LGBT people who want social equality get it?
> 
> Also, social equality =/= totally not economic equality. Personally speaking? I'd prefer social equality. Shock horror if I'd have to pay the same taxes as straight married couples, it's not like being on the same level is what LGBT is all about!









First of all it wouldn't force them to be married, it'd force them to declare themselves as a de facto couple.

You see, it's not just married couple that would get affected. Even non-married gay couple would have to declare that they're in a relationship, thus losing the benefits of being two singles living together.

To me, LGBT is not about social equality, it's about social _acceptance_, where people don't find reasons to fire you just because you're gay, or your parents don't throw you out because you discover you're not supposed to be a dude. Laws against discrimination to exist, but people find ways around them. LGBT to me is the idea of completely eliminating homophobia for good, not bawwwing about the fact that we can't marry.

Like I said before, why do you need to marry if you love someone. Thousands of dollars wasted for a piece of paper and to say something that _*both of you should already know*_

[/rant]


----------



## Harlequin

Wyvern said:


> First of all it wouldn't force them to be married, it'd force them to declare themselves as a de facto couple.
> 
> You see, it's not just married couple that would get affected. Even non-married gay couple would have to declare that they're in a relationship, thus losing the benefits of being two singles living together.
> 
> To me, LGBT is not about social equality, it's about social _acceptance_, where people don't find reasons to fire you just because you're gay, or your parents don't throw you out because you discover you're not supposed to be a dude. Laws against discrimination to exist, but people find ways around them. LGBT to me is the idea of completely eliminating homophobia for good, not bawwwing about the fact that we can't marry.
> 
> Like I said before, why do you need to marry if you love someone. Thousands of dollars wasted for a piece of paper and to say something that _*both of you should already know*_
> 
> [/rant]


No law is going to force gay couples to declare themselves a couple. That's impossible, because two men can live together without being gay, right?

And no, actually, we're looking for equality. I don't want _more_ rights than everyone else and nor do I want _less_. I want to be able to do the same things that straight people do and not have to fear discrimination because of it. I don't want to be denied a job because of my sexuality. I don't want to be told I'm an unfit parent because I'm gay.

You're missing the point, as well. Just because you don't want to get married doesn't mean that other people share your view.


----------



## Wyvern

Harlequin said:


> No law is going to force gay couples to declare themselves a couple. That's impossible, because two men can live together without being gay, right?
> 
> And no, actually, we're looking for equality. I don't want _more_ rights than everyone else and nor do I want _less_. I want to be able to do the same things that straight people do and not have to fear discrimination because of it. I don't want to be denied a job because of my sexuality. I don't want to be told I'm an unfit parent because I'm gay.
> 
> You're missing the point, as well. Just because you don't want to get married doesn't mean that other people share your view.


[PAINFUL 'HOLD IT' PW IMAGE]

Well like I said in my original post, and I quote



			
				Wyvern said:
			
		

> So yeah, that's my *opinion*.


Don't get your underwear in a knot over what I'm saying, although judging by the amount of times you said "I", I'll assume that it's your _opinion_ as well.

Also, who's this "we're". What do you mean be "we".


----------



## Vladimir Putin's LJ

The vast majority of the LGBT spectrum ?_? the whole point of Pride is for everyone under the umbrella to be treated (as closely as possible) like any heterosexual/cisgendered person would. Why should we get special tax evasions if the foundation of what we say is 'we're like you guys'?


----------



## nyuu

(Opinions can be wrong. "BUT IT'S MY *OPINION* IT INHERENTLY AS VALID AND SPECIAL AS YOURS" is not a defense or an argument.)

Giving gays marriage doesn't necessitate you losing your better-than-marriage cohab-benefits. (curious: are they better than the benefits for an unmarried straight couple?) You also won't be forced to marry another man just because you have the right to so, especially not on the grounds of the government giving you less money.

Just because you don't want to take advantage of a right of some kind, does not mean you need to fight to deny it of everyone else. Why do your personal intents deserve to define how other people can act?

There are plenty of reasons for established couples/+ to not marry. It can be arbitrarily limiting and can add a lot of baggage for people even tangentially involved. If you dislike it so, again, don't get one? Other people want to, straights already can. Equalize this how?

How does gay marriage hurt you? (and yes, social acceptance is fine and dandy. The fact that we aren't there yet is not an excuse to perpetuate legal inequality. What the hell man)


----------



## Flazeah

Grr. When we were watching the Grand National yesterday, someone mentioned that the person reporting, a woman, had recently got married to another woman, and my grandad, who was staying with us, said something like, "Oh, she's one of _them_, is she?" My mum very firmly said, "Good for her!", but that didn't seem to discourage him. I wasn't fully concentrating on the next part of the conversation, but I _think_ that he and my step-grandma, who was also staying with us, went on to talk about some people they knew, two women, who were soon to be married, wondering whether they'd be invited to the wedding, and my grandad said he hoped not.

 ...Seriously, they said it in a way that sounded pretty damn rude. I love how they're fanatical about politeness and manners and... oh wait. They don't know I like females, so it's not as if their remarks were aimed at me, but eugh.


----------



## Kinova

While that seems sort of obnoxious of your grandad, Flazeah, at least your mum said something against his comment! That's pretty cool. And hey, maybe if they did get invited to the wedding it might change his attitude a little.

... But while we're on the subject of family obnoxiousness! My dad is a pain. I know he and my mother have at least considered that I might be gay (way to go guys the window is open and I am _on the other side of it_ also voices travel more than one floor up) but for some reason he seems to be trying to put his opinion on the subject across by making random statements about it...? Uh, like at the moment there's a lesbian storyline starting in a soap my mum watches. My mum mentions this; he goes off to do something and while passing through the living room says loudly 'I AM NOT WATCHING [SOAP] TONIGHT' to nobody in particular.

...? Then the next day he mentioned the soap, and made a joke about the girl's father:

'Just when he thought things couldn't get any worse!' Chuckle chuckle hurr hurr.

I don't know whether I'm misinterpreting this stuff but it does keep coming up and it's not really inducing a great amount of faith. Though I do realise it could be much worse. :v


----------



## Dinru

@Flazeah: Give your Mom a high-five for saying what she said. Don't invite grandad to the wedding.

My uncle is homophobic but has a lesbian fetish, so he's 'accepting' of bisexual women (so that he can get them in bed of course). About three minutes after coming out to my family (most of which were just 'eh' about it), he mentions how much better the US would be if...



> "All the gays moved to New York or something and left us straights alone."
> 
> Me: "What about the bisexuals?"
> 
> Him: "They have to pick one or the other at some point anyway, right? But all the bisexual women can come to my bedroom, hurr."
> 
> Me: "UM!"
> 
> Him: *keeps going on his merry way*


----------



## Flazeah

Hm... that must get pretty annoying when your dad does that, Kinova. >.< However, my dad used to joke around about gay people sometimes, but more gently than that - guess it's possible yours doesn't dislike gays or anything, but is just taking opportunities to create what he thinks are amusing moments. My parents are fine about my liking females, and said so as soon as I came out.

 Aw, sorry to hear you had to be in that situation, Dinru. :< Can't have been much fun.  Guess some people fail to realise that you don't just "lose" your attraction to the gender that isn't the gender of the person you're with if you're bisexual once you decide to be with someone of a certain gender.

 ...Oops, that sentence is a bit confusing. Er, hopefully you can decipher it! You probably know what I mean, anyway.

 Also, I think that if I get married to a female, I'll invite my grandad anyway, if he's still alive. I'd feel good to have invited him anyway for some reason. I'd be pretty tempted not to, heh. Sort of hoping that he'll accept me... you never know. I think he'd be disappointed, at least at first - he's always asking whether I've got a boyfriend. Or something along those lines.


----------



## Jolty

on the subject of family

yesterday my dad told me he thinks I'm making a big mistake with the whole trans thing
and that I should go to uni as a girl

which brings the total number of people irl who are cool with me being how I am to probably like, two
:|


----------



## surskitty

My school's GSA is doing Ally Week this week and I have gotten most of my lit class to wear lavender ribbons~!

Given that this school's kind of homophobic (it has a slight case of catholicism) it's kind of impressive I guess.


----------



## Vladimir Putin's LJ

I wish my school HAD a GSA >:/ I tried to create one but I never heard back from the student union thing wtf


----------



## octobr

My school hasn't got a GSA, but they started a 'Diversity Club' this year -- and they got the Day of Silence to be posted on the website which is pretty freaking awesome and I am v. happy. Shame I have no one to be quiet at except my dogs.


----------



## Dinru

Who all is participating in the DOS this year, anyway? I am, and I managed to get two other people to this year so that I'm not the only one again. Yaay.


----------



## surskitty

I am.


----------



## spaekle

I'm going to try as hard as I can this year! At least until the end of the school day.


----------



## nyuu

I am. I haven't been in school late enough in the day to sign up, but I'll do it


----------



## Jolty

why am I never at school on DOS grrrr

I will still attempt it however
I only realised it was tomorrow (er... today) a few hours ago and I wouldn't have made plans with my very loud friend if I had known lol :B

I WILL BE SILENT IN SPIRIT.


----------



## Harlequin

oops I didn't even know it was DOS and also I don't care so um. :c


----------



## Keltena

Being silent here~ Wish I was actually GOING TO SCHOOL TODAY, though :<


----------



## Minish

I'm not at school today, so yeah... not much point. Plus last year was a disaster because it caused arguments between me and my friends, so yeah, probably won't be doing it with them again. :|

I was... pretty silent today. I think the only thing I said was "well that's just shit" when I realised I had woken up at 2 in the afternoon.


----------



## Vladimir Putin's LJ

Didn't know it was today and I'm trying to get a date for tomorrow so uh ;_; I can stay silent for the next 1:30 hours but there's no real point.

Also I got my Underworks binder yesterday and it is superior to T-Kingdom. I also got this shirt I ordered so uh two-in-one photo deal haha





It makes me look way skinnier than I actually am. Ignore how gross my hair is too, I've washed it since!

Either way, passable? I know I can't pass irl (lol massive hips + horrid voice) yet but photos are a start!

EDIT: gay date set up: I rule.


----------



## Dinru

Vladimir Putin's LJ said:


> Didn't know it was today and I'm trying to get a date for tomorrow so uh ;_; I can stay silent for the next 1:30 hours but there's no real point.
> 
> Also I got my Underworks binder yesterday and it is superior to T-Kingdom. I also got this shirt I ordered so uh two-in-one photo deal haha
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It makes me look way skinnier than I actually am. Ignore how gross my hair is too, I've washed it since!
> 
> Either way, passable? I know I can't pass irl (lol massive hips + horrid voice) yet but photos are a start!
> 
> EDIT: gay date set up: I rule.


Very passable. Showed the picture to an unbiased party and she said it looked very male to her b^^d

I've been silent most of the day, but about two hours I decided to break the silence early (rather than at midnight like I did last year).


----------



## Minish

VPLJ: I totally forget you're trans most of the time so I was like "wait what is he trying to pass for". :D Which seems like it's a good thing!

...although really, your skin is way too perfect for a guy. I am jealous.

Go Dinru~! :3


----------



## Jolty

vplj looks a bit like me lol
except without glasses

hmm if underworks is better I might get a binder from them at some point
my t-kingdom one seems to be less tight no matter what I do now B| I've only had it a month and a half


----------



## octobr

man i've never even gotten around to buying a binder


it's not very practical i guess

I DON'T LEAVE THE HOUSE besides tiny titties whoop

that shirt is boss because i hate rubik's cubes


also i'll lol give you massive hips :| motherfucking ... 31 inch waist, 39 inch hips
WHY


----------



## Drowzee64

I had to go to a funeral yesterday, but everyone was pretty silent anyways for obvious reasons and I never talk at school anyways, so do I win DOS?

Speaking of DOS, I _love_ the idiotic pricks who don't know that they're acting very homophobic, then get uber defensive and I-am-right-stop-being-offended when you call them out on it.

Also, I tallied the amount of times I heard the word faggot by 10 minutes into my 6th period class. 5 times! New record! :/


----------



## Minish

Drowzee64 said:


> Also, I tallied the amounts of time I heard the word faggot by 10 minutes into my 6th period class. 5 times! New record! :/


Amusingly, nobody seems to use any homophobic slang here in the UK. Nobody knows what the other meaning of dyke is, I don't remember anyone ever saying faggot (mainly because it's a sausage or something) and a fag is only ever a cigarette.

The worse thing I get is this random hoarde of year sevens and eights who follow us and go "OH MY GOD, YOU'RE... YOU'RE GAY!" Yes, well done, child. I actually already know, but really. Thanks.

And in Sociology whenever we're arguing on gay adoption and the like the guy behind me is constantly like "GOD WHY DO YOU ALWAYS DISAGREE WITH ME. GOD." Oh. I have no idea... maybe because you're a douchebag and you're saying that I shouldn't be able to adopt children one day? I'm basically known as That Girl Who Defends Gay People rather than Member of the Lesbian Gang like I used to be. lulz, Lesbian Gang. None of us were actually lesbians.


----------



## Jolty

Cirrus said:


> Amusingly, nobody seems to use any homophobic slang here in the UK. Nobody knows what the other meaning of dyke is, I don't remember anyone ever saying faggot (mainly because it's a sausage or something) and a fag is only ever a cigarette.


you lucky so and so

I got dyke all the freaking time :( and people use faggot constantly, as well as bazillions of other words...

Everyone still uses gay as insult though :| even my sister and I have to yell at her /every time/ for it
How am I related to her she is literally the polar opposite of me


----------



## Minish

I think I actually *am* lucky. Now that I think about it, I don't hear 'gay' being used as an insult much these days where I live. Maybe it's just 'cause my peers are now older or something, but I think people actually don't use it because its kind of iffy and offensive... this all coming from a pretty Tory county. What. 

It's crap in other ways though. :P

Ahh, it sucks when family members use 'gay' as an insult, I'm sure I've heard my sister say it and then _look at me_ to see if I'm offended or not. Why doesn't she just, y'know, not use it at all? @_@


----------



## Dannichu

'Gay' as an insult/something you call an irritating inanimate object seems to have fallen out of fashion where I live, too, though it's an expression used more by secondary school kids, and I don't spend any time with them, so I don't know. I remember back in th' day, some of my teachers would tell kids off for calling stuff gay, and I'd be there, silently cheering. 
Though there was one time in Psychology A-level when a friend and I were talking about something, possibly to do with homosexuality as it's studied in psychology, and our teacher only heard a bit of it and told us off for 'using homophobic language' or something. I have no idea what it was we said that she heard and was annoyed by, though o.O

One of my friends has a habit of using "being homosexual" as a substitute for "not working" when referring to electronics for some reason. But he keeping going up to London where his rich male friends take him to see things like La Cage Aux Follies and Priscilla Queen of the Desert, so I really have no idea what's up there.

VP's shirt is _fantastic_. You look brilliant :D


----------



## octobr

WANNA SEE SOMETHING ABSOLUTELY STUPID

http://slog.thestranger.com/slog/ar...ended-a-transgendered-student-back-in-january


WHOOOP


----------



## Ryan the Terrible

I felt like I should join a club or two, and looking down the first page, this seems to be the only thing I fit into. xD

So am I in or what?


----------



## Keltena

You are most certainly in~ c: Welcome!

So... you know the friend I have a crush on? She IMed me yesterday and asked straight-out if I liked her (I guess it was kind of obvious ^^;), and when I said yes, she said it was okay and she didn't feel awkward about it or anything, and she just wants to be friends.

God, I'm so relieved.


----------



## Minish

Salamander said:


> You are most certainly in~ c: Welcome!
> 
> So... you know the friend I have a crush on? She IMed me yesterday and asked straight-out if I liked her (I guess it was kind of obvious ^^;), and when I said yes, she said it was okay and she didn't feel awkward about it or anything, and she just wants to be friends.
> 
> God, I'm so relieved.


Ahh, that's so good for you. :D I've never had a crush on a straight girl before, but I can imagine how it could make friendships awkward.


----------



## Keltena

I know; I'm glad she's okay with it. She's not straight, actually, buuut still. It's a 'just friends' thing.


----------



## Lady Grimdour

I may as well join the club. Can you believe it; Grim's finally out to himself as to having a girl side! Woo, celebrate.

Sorry to hijack but I gathered that this didn't warrant its own thread. Anyway, I'm still not sure myself but I think I have transgender tendencies. To the point where I have looked into HRT. However, I'm still fine with myself as male, but I wouldn't mind (understatement) to be female for half my life. Not as a fetish too; I only get a peace of mind when in girlmode, but at the same time I don't want to get rid of my male self. Also I hate the term "transvestite", it sounds too much like a porn genre and therefore, is degrading.

And since there is no way I am coming out to anyone who shares my blood, I stand at a crossroads; to either wait until university and start living as basically two people there, or just be fine with my manly self. Any suggestions?


----------



## octobr

Have you looked into the umbrella of genderqueer, Grimdour? It sounds a lot like what you're describing, and I know a lot of people who fall under certain aspects of the label do transition.


----------



## Lady Grimdour

Gary Oak said:


> Have you looked into the umbrella of genderqueer, Grimdour? It sounds a lot like what you're describing, and I know a lot of people who fall under certain aspects of the label do transition.


I guess. Though I know for a fact I don't every want to transition because I'm too attached to my male ego with all the heavy metal rage and such.

Though I may be able to do that as a girl.


----------



## surskitty

So this friday I might finally be able to lead the discussion in the GSA that I've been trying to bring up for around a month!  As such, I'm looking for _suggestions_.

What are some notable portrayals of gay characters in media?


----------



## octobr

KURT FROM GLEE


----------



## Dewgong

^ that


----------



## Keltena

Willow from Buffy the Vampire Slayer, maybe?


----------



## Vladimir Putin's LJ

You've got your usual Will & Grace, etc. 
Thirteen from House is bisexual but I always thought that was kind of a random fanservice decision since it's presented kind of weirdly? And everyone else on the show keeps implying she's gonna cheat on Foreman with a girl (even Taub who defended her 5 minutes earlier in the same episode wtf) which I'm not sure just reflects everyone's jerkiness or the writers'.
Oz is lesser known (it's from 1998-2000) but it took place in a prison and two inmates (Chris Keller and Toby Beecher) actually had a relationship that didn't involve rape before it all went to hell haha
Eastenders apparently has a new storyline about a muslim man and some guy having a relationship that has the British Islamic community up in arms but I don't watch the show so uh. They were the first programme to show a gay kiss on prime time, iirc.
A good number of British sitcoms used to have pretty obviously gay characters that kind of lived on stereotypes :v like Are You Being Served?'s Mr Humphreys, who I don't really have a problem with (because I love camp humour) but I know many people do. Gruber from 'Allo 'Allo fits here too, though he's pretty tame for an 80s Britcom tbh.

In films there's famous stuff like Brokeback Mountain but there are a lot of cool lesser-known LGBT films like Beautiful Thing, Transamerica, In & Out (I really like this movie for no readily available reason) and Latter Days.

It could be interesting to mention really old gay-themed films, like Anders Als Die Andern, a German educational film from 1913 which was partly written by Dr. Magnus Hirschfeld (a famous physician and sexologist who was himself gay). It even mentions transsexuality, and stars Conrad Veidt. It's about blackmail and obviously ends with the usual suicide but the doctor shows up at the end to tell Veidt's family SEE IF YOU'D BEEN ACCEPTING THIS WOULDN'T HAVE HAPPENED.
In 1931 the first lesbian film was made (also in Germany), and though I haven't been able to find it yet I'm told it's quite good. It's called Mädchen in Uniform. There's another one from 1928 called Geschlecht in Fesseln which I've yet to see but is also supposed to be good (spoiler: someone dies). All of these films were burned by the Nazis, of course.

France also has a history of gay cinema, of course. Two well-known oldies off the top of my head are Les Amitiés Particuliéres (The Special Friendships, 1964) which takes place in a French boarding school in the 40s (and also ends in a suicide. The film is a bit creepy though since one boy looks way older than the other, haha ;__; in the book he's only supposed to be two years older. The author was a bit of a paedo though so I'm not sure whether this was intentional), Un Chant D'Amour (made by famous writer Jean Genet during the 50s and slightly pornographic, happens in a jail. It's only about 20 minutes long) and Nous Etions Un Seul Homme, which is also a 60s film iirc about a Nazi and French guy (and they die).
France is probably more famous for films like La Cage Aux Folles but they have a tradition of portraying gay characters as normal people with intense love-lives, but the latter is just because they're French.

99% of this is probably hella boring and useless but I got carried away, pft. Also even though gay films are consistently getting blander (with occasional surprises like CANNIBAL PSYCHOLOGICAL DRAMA WHAUGH) I'm glad everyone stops DYING at the end because Christ.


----------



## Minish

Ryan from High School Musical

I'd agree with Willow from Buffy, or maybe Maxxie from Skins?


----------



## Lady Grimdour

Captain Jack Harkness.

Then you can stem it into how John Barrowman has positively influenced the gay community here in the UK.


----------



## surskitty

Thanks!

... It's a pity I'm not actually familiar with any of these except possibly Willow from Buffy.


----------



## Lady Grimdour

James said:


> Thanks!
> 
> ... It's a pity I'm not actually familiar with any of these except possibly Willow from Buffy.


Watch Doctor Who if you want to know more about Harkness.


----------



## Harlequin

I'm going to second the mention of Beautiful Thing, actually: it is a very good film (especially given when it was set) and the characters there are very sympathetic and _normal_.

DO IT.


----------



## surskitty

I watch Doctor Who semi-regularly, but I don't watch Torchwood.


----------



## Dannichu

By "notable" I take it you mean "well-known", "influential" and also "positive". That last one makes it quite a bit harder :/

If you're mentioning Willow, it's really only fair that you mention Tara, too. 

You should probably mention Ellen, as in the fictional character played by Ellen Degeneres on her sitcom back in th' day. I think it was the first coming-out of a character on mainstream US TV, so she's notable.

I know The O.C. had a lesbian couple in at some point (I think their names were Alex and Mariska) - one of them was played by Olivia Wilde, but it didn't last for very long or end well.

OOH. DUMBLEDORE <3

Actually, I've just remembered something very useful.

(that's a bit of a recent list - if the poll had been taken five years ago, Willow would certianly top it, and Ellen would if it was ten, but it's still a good representation)

Aah! And afterelton have their own list, too! Awesome.

That should help :)

Edit: Haha, the top two on the women's and top three on the men's lists are from the UK XD


----------



## surskitty

I actually don't see Dumbledore as particularly positive.  His one likely romance was with a crazy evil guy.  :(  Particularly given Rowling's fondness for babies ever after....


----------



## Dannichu

You're right. I suppose he was a "positive character who was gay", but his gayness itself wasn't exactly positive. Or, uh, mentioned. Which would've probably helped. :/


----------



## octobr

You could use him as a way of showing GUESS WHAT, BEIN GAY IS JUST ONE OF MANY ASPECTS OF A PERSON.

Also Ma Vie En Rose, you should watch it because it's pretty goddamn adorable anyway. 

Oh and wiki has a whole section on this, it's just kind of hard to find. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_television_shows_with_LGBT_characters


----------



## Dannichu

...but Willow, Tara, Naomi, Emily, and the entire cast of Torchwood aren't on that list at all! And Ellen gets on there twice! D:

And holy moley, Eastenders has had a lot of LGBT characters over the years.


----------



## Dewgong

lol ellen.


----------



## Minish

Ooh, Emily and Naomi from Skins, I forgot about them.

I haven't seen the second generation of Skins which is where they were, but if the opinions of people my school are anything to go by, they were definitely positively influential.


----------



## Dewgong

totally contributing: i'm making rice


----------



## Drowzee64

Cirrus said:


> Amusingly, nobody seems to use any homophobic slang here in the UK. Nobody knows what the other meaning of dyke is, I don't remember anyone ever saying faggot (mainly because it's a sausage or something) and a fag is only ever a cigarette.
> 
> The worse thing I get is this random hoarde of year sevens and eights who follow us and go "OH MY GOD, YOU'RE... YOU'RE GAY!" Yes, well done, child. I actually already know, but really. Thanks.


Yeah, people in Houston are incredibly insensitive, not just about gay slurs, but other slurs, offensive humor, and everything else. Political correctness is a foreign concept. :/

At least this was born out of insensitivity as opposed to actual hatred. Otherwise, we wouldn't have a gay mayor. Annise Parker is _actually qualified_ to be mayor as opposed to abusing the lesbian card, so all the tea-party-independent people who claim that Obama was elected because he's black - no matter how they felt about homosexuality - felt like hypocrites to not vote for Parker just because she's a lesbian.

Anyways, am I the only gay guy on earth who is attracted to every part of a man _except_ the penis? I mean it's just an ugly dangling thing that you can rub for pleasure to me.


----------



## Dewgong

dangling... thing... ... dangling...


----------



## Drowzee64

Yeah, even when it's not dangling, I feel NOTHING.

...I apologize for any mental images I gave you guys.


----------



## Minish

Oh God. Dangling thing... XD

Well... I've never really seen the appeal of... uh, the penis, myself. :P So I can see where you're coming from. And by the way, I'm an almost-lesbian (bisexual usually with tendencies towards girls) and I used to be kind of meh about boobs and ewwwww about, uh, vajayjays and that general area.

I am such a prude.


----------



## Jolty

all genitals are gross but you just have to not think about that when you're doing whatever :B

also
today I got a letter from Nottingham Gender Idenity Clinic
I am officially on the waiting list for an appointment, I just have to fill out all these forms they sent me...
I'm actually excited about all this but at the same time it's bloody nerve wracking, probably because I'm gonna be doing this pretty much alone... I'm gonna be changing my name legally in a few months but without telling my parents
probably not the best of ideas but I don't want to be pressured into not doing any of this, like my dad has tried to do several times before


----------



## Dewgong

^ you gotta do what you gotta do, although i'd probably tell your parents to avoid... surprise finding-outs. or something. hmm...

i'm changing my name in the next couple of months as well. makes me very happy. except my parents have to agree with whatever middle name i choose and i'm having difficulties deciding.
they won't let me pick silver.


----------



## octobr

you freaking productive jerks


----------



## Dewgong

so guys.

what's a good middle name to go with sterling.


----------



## Lady Grimdour

Dewgong said:


> so guys.
> 
> what's a good middle name to go with sterling.


First name?


----------



## Minish

Dewgong said:


> so guys.
> 
> what's a good middle name to go with sterling.


...all that came into my head was 'pound'. :P


----------



## Dewgong

s-sterling pound.


----------



## octobr

Davis? Christopher? William? Donovan? Frederick? Phineas?

I like big names ;3


----------



## nyuu

Manfred


----------



## Dewgong

sterling christopher doesn't sound terribly awful.
i like big names as well.


----------



## Drowzee64

You can have my middle name - Ryan - if you want. Then I would know two people on the internet who share my middle name. :D


----------



## Dewgong

one of my closer friend's middle name is ryan and he's accuse me of stealing.


----------



## Harlequin

penises are beautiful, shut up you haters :(

they're _heroic_


----------



## Minish

Harlequin said:


> penises are beautiful, shut up you haters :(
> 
> they're _heroic_


But... but they're bulbous. And usually floppy. And just... *shudder*


----------



## Harlequin

*PENISES ARE HEROIC OKAY

*also when they're floppy they're cute :3


----------



## Minish

Harlequin said:


> also when they're floppy they're cute :3


...I actually puked a little inside my mouth when I read that


----------



## Harlequin

Cirrus said:


> ...I actually puked a little inside my mouth when I read that


*D:

*but but but they _are_!!

especially the little ones, when they're floppy they're adorable.


----------



## Jolty

lmfao heroic
now I wish I had one :( sadfaaaace


----------



## Drowzee64

The last 6 or so posts made me literally lol. XD

#1 pet peeve: People digging through my stuff
#2 pet peeve: People forcing me to do or say stuff
#3 pet peeve: Being confronted unexpectedly

Mom digging through my personal crap, reading something that reveals I'm gay, and dragging me out of the closet when I'm not even close to prepared:

_Priceless._ >/


----------



## Jolty

I have an appointment at the gender clinic in 18 days oh god
And since I'm going alone, this means I will have to use a crapload of public transport.

I also have to get up REALLY early since the appointment is at 10am >:| it takes 2 hours just to get to Nottingham on the train and then god knows how long of bus trips fff


----------



## Dewgong

i hate getting up early it's too hard


----------



## Dannichu

Drowzee64 said:


> Mom digging through my personal crap, reading something that reveals I'm gay, and dragging me out of the closet when I'm not even close to prepared:
> 
> _Priceless._ >/


): That's awful. Are you doing okay? Have you spoken to her about it?



Jolty said:


> I have an appointment at the gender clinic in 18 days oh god
> And since I'm going alone, this means I will have to use a crapload of public transport.


Good luck! :D

I don't know if anyone here has seen or even heard of the TV series Dead Like Me? It was made by the same guy who made Pushing Daisies (and was likewise prematurely cancelled).

I was watching S2 today, and there's a subplot in an episode in which one of the Reapers, Daisy, is sent to collect the soul of an S. Samson (Reapers are only given a post-it with the surname, initial and time of death of the person they're going to Reap), and she goes to the waiting room of a cosmetic surgery clinic.
She finds the person she'll be Reaping by asking "There's a problem with S. Samson's insurance", and it turns out "S" stands for Stan, the only guy in the waiting room. He tells her "Your company has made it _incredibly_ clear that you're not going to pay for me" or something, and they have a brief conversation in which Stan reveals he* wants to undergo sex reassignment surgery.
Stan's killed in an accident moments later, but Daisy can still see and talk to his soul, and invites him to come for a walk with her before he Passes On. 
They go outside and talk about how he'd always wanted to be female, and how his mother always prayed for him ("but not even a million prayers could turn me into a girl"). 
Daisy's been thinking a lot about religion in the few episodes previous, and suggests they go to a church and do some praying of their own. Stan agrees, but when they reach the (empty) church, he starts yelling at God for being so cruel (for putting him in a man's body, not letting him die). He says he'll forgive God, but only if God apologises first. As soon as he says it, the big stained-glass window is broken by a rock from outside. Daisy goes outside to investigate, and Stan Passes On while she's gone. Daisy's puzzled when she comes back and he's not there, but quickly realizes what happened. She smiles, kneels in a pew, looks up at the smashed window and prays "Blessed art thou among women".

He wasn't a major character, but I just thought it was really lovely to see a transgender character portrayed sympathetically - aside from Transamerica, I can't actually think of another TV/film protrayal of a transgender character past "she used to be a man!" jokes.

(*I'm referring to Stan as male here because the character physically presents as male and introduces himself as Stan)


----------



## octobr

I 

freaking love


dead like me.

JUS SAYIN, great show.


----------



## Zuu

i couldn't get into it.


----------



## Vladimir Putin's LJ

Also, the Portuguese president had until the 28th of April to veto or pass the gay marriage law. He has done neither.
ANIBAL GET OFF YOUR LAZY VAMPIRE ASS AND DO SOMETHING GOOD GOD


----------



## Zuu

your post made me look up the portuguese president. yeah, he looks like a vampire.


----------



## departuresong

Gah. I know it sounds awful, but I do wish I could change my sexuality. Because I know I'm inevitably going to have to come out someday. Or maybe I won't, because I'm such a freaking coward.

Mom asked me the other day if I was gay... she said it would be okay if I were. But I denied it. >_>; Ugh! Nobody outside of TCoD even knows.


----------



## Harlequin

tbh it isn't that big of a deal, really. I say this has someone who has yet to come out to his parents, but I mean, it's k. Some of my friends know, and none of them really ... care. We still do all the same shit we used to (except less often because I rarely go outside) and it's not that bad.

Just wait it out, I guess? One day you'll be in a position to do as you like regardless of your parents' and family's opinion, and whilst it isn't nice to think 'well I can cut them out of my life if they hate me', it's always a possibility. And it probably won't be that bad anyway because most people soften when it's _their_ gay child and not someone else's.

Ignore the horror stories, they're horrory.


----------



## octobr

I find nine times out of ten no one gives a shit and it's kind of disappointing. Hm.


----------



## Harlequin

hahahaha *yes*, it's like "oh okay" and then you're like "..." because the expectation is much worse than the reality.


----------



## octobr

'could you at least like act shocked or something please I mean' '[gasp.]'


----------



## Harlequin

hey faggots, post moar

no srs >:( also is anyone kind of worried now that the Conservatives are back in power? A 'rising star' in their party runs a 'pray the gay away' thingy. I FEEL UNEASY


----------



## Vladimir Putin's LJ

I am a bit, for the reason you mentioned and also because the interview Cameron did in Attitude wasn't really convincing at all. He was apparently unaware faith schools are more homophobic than non-faith ones (SHOCKER), is allied with the Polish Law & Justice Party (now led by late Lech's closeted brother, actually), said he thinks the ideal home for a kid is 'obviously' with a mum and a dad and just wouldn't give any straight answers at all.
I mean, he never really does, but in this case he just went off babbling complete nonsense.
He also looked really uncomfortable in the pictures, haha.

No changing 'civil union' to marriage any time soon at any rate.

In Belgium news: Pride this Saturday. Hoping for non-shitty weather.


----------



## Vladimir Putin's LJ

Pride was cool.

Also the Pope left Portugal and literally three days later we legalized gay marriage. 8th country in the world to do so. NOT THE LAST FOR ONCE HAHAHA who's progressive _now_ Britain


----------



## Kinova

raaaaaaarg shurrup |B Everyone I talk to here is either 'but gays have marriage already?' 'civil what now?' ect. soo with this line of thinking plus the Tory goverment I'm assuming nothing going to happen for a long while. Fft.

Good show though Portugal. \o/

Also Drowzee hope things are okay?


----------



## Harlequin

It's a Conservative-_Liberal Democrat_ government! :D but no srsly it's nowhere near as bad as a Conservative government.


----------



## Ryan the Terrible

departuresong said:


> Gah. I know it sounds awful, but I do wish I could change my sexuality. Because I know I'm inevitably going to have to come out someday. Or maybe I won't, because I'm such a freaking coward.
> 
> Mom asked me the other day if I was gay... she said it would be okay if I were. But I denied it. >_>; Ugh! Nobody outside of TCoD even knows.


I'm pretty much in the same boat. :\

I mean, I've told my sister, but that coming-out was a huge mess. I didn't exactly _tell_ her so much as pause for a really long time after she asked...but I wish I could do it over again so I wouldn't come off as so cowardly and reluctant about it. >.> Anyway, she hasn't even come close to bringing it up since; ever since about 10 minutes after I told her, it's been pretty much like I never told her in the first place, so I don't really count that, and I consider myself nearly 100% closeted.

I've always sort of told myself that if someone asks, and specifically says that they'd be okay with it, I wouldn't deny it. But seeing as that's never happened to me, I'm not exactly sure what I would do if the situation actually arose. Either way I feel like by now I should have been able to ACTUALLY tell someone.


----------



## Harlequin

It's a non-event, really, when you eventually do it. Your friends will be like "oh. so you're still coming to town Friday, right?" [insert equivalent activity there]

So like, tonight I kept flirting with girls. And forgetting I'm gay. Until after the flirting. I AM STILL DOING IT ON FACEBOOK WHYYYY


----------



## octobr

I can tell all your parents, my tact switch is permanently off.

I graduated as sarah bruno and that made me kind of feel sick but, whatever, I guess.


----------



## Harlequin

A ROSE BY ANY OTHER NAME and all that.

i mean in this cause you're like, the thorny bit that makes you bleed, but that's totally part of the rose. 


... :D


----------



## Drowzee64

Kinova said:


> Also Drowzee hope things are okay?


We haven't really talked about it since, but nonetheless things are going OK.

Uhh... In other news, for English I wrote a little thing about being gay even though the assignment had to be read to the class. Given the homophobic atmosphere of my school and my overly passive nature, that actually took a bit of guts.

Damnit I wanna see two guys or two girls holding hands or someone go trans or SOMETHING at my school. Moar rainbowz n fabulousness plox.


----------



## spaekle

[in which spaekle comes here to bitch]

Yeeeah, I have problems related to graduation. Boys and girls wear different-colored gowns for some fucking reason, which pisses me off enough, but beyond that my mom is being all LOL YOU NEED TO GET DRESSED UP YOU'RE GRADUATING HIGH SCHOOL where I'm like WHAT THE FUCK, I'M ACTUALLY KIND OF OFFENDED THAT PEOPLE CONSIDER THIS AN ACCOMPLISHMENT. JUST GIVE ME MY FUCKING LAPTOP AND LET ME GO SOMEWHERE BETTER THAN THIS SHITHOLE. 

I don't think there's any way I can get out of going to this. It's the "fuck no I'm not wearing a dress" part that's the issue. Last time I went out in a skirt (which was around two years ago) I came home honestly thinking I was going to kill myself, and I'd rather not have a repeat of that.  :\ I'm just not really sure how to make this work. I don't own anything besides pants, so we'll have to go shopping. I'm probably just going to have to be all :\ at everything until my mom _gets it_. Worst-case scenario is I get a dress and wear shorts under it, for psychological comfort more than anything else. :[

I kind of want to wear my ugly-ass blue crocs just to spite everyone.


----------



## octobr

Crocs are _never appropriate._

Never. Fucking. Ever.




Dress as Lady Gaga instead


----------



## spaekle

...that'd be awesome, actually. I have friends who'd totally do it too. :o


----------



## departuresong

What's with the hate towards dresses? Regardless of sexual preference or gender identity, there is nothing as fabulous as a well-made dress. <3


----------



## spaekle

I don't look good in them, I don't like wearing them. I feel naked not wearing pants in public. :c


----------



## Minish

departuresong said:


> What's with the hate towards dresses? Regardless of sexual preference or gender identity, there is nothing as fabulous as a well-made dress. <3


...yesterday I went out in a bright hot-pink miniskirt. With fabulous black tights. ;D And I bought a dress recently! *is a terrible tomboy*

When I was younger and more tomboyish I was squeamish at the thought of wearing a dress, but I wore a beautiful pink princess one at my prom. I actually hate it when people are like "...wow I never expected that from YOU" about that -- just because I'm not straight and like to wear masculine clothing the rest of the time, it doesn't mean I don't want to wear feminine clothes too. I hate that you have to be one or the other nowadays. :(

imo the gender binary clothing scale should just be abolished. I still totally get what you're saying, Spaekle, it's the opposite situation to me but one that I fully understand. My female friend went to our prom in an amazing suit just because she doesn't like dresses, and it's horrible that females especially have such pressure on wearing a dress at proms and graduations.


----------



## Jolty

I can't afford to go to my prom but I would've worn a suit. The only people who objected were my goddamn friends :|

I just feel /wrong/ wearing dresses or skirts... and just because all the tomboys someone knows all suddenly loved dresses after wearing one at prom doesn't mean I will too

Also, you can't really wear a binder with dresses can you? Nobody must ever see my boobs. ever.


----------



## octobr

Yeah I don't ... dresses don't fly. I don't like a healthy breeze around my privates thanks

I wore a suit with tails to my prom, but mostly I ended up without a shirt because it is hot as hell yo. 


I am so glad I have no more attachments to high school. Finally I can start NOT BEING SARAH fff. Properly anywho. And maybe actually progressing somewhere -- high school and dance have kind of restricted my movement in a forward direction, so.


----------



## Harlequin

departuresong said:


> What's with the hate towards dresses? Regardless of sexual preference or gender identity, there is nothing as fabulous as a well-made dress. <3



tru dat. DRESSES ARE FULL OF FABULOSITY AND <3


----------



## Minish

Easy for you to say when you're not the ones wearing 'em. :B


----------



## spaekle

Gary Oak said:


> I am so glad I have no more attachments to high school. Finally I can start NOT BEING SARAH fff. Properly anywho. And maybe actually progressing somewhere -- high school and dance have kind of restricted my movement in a forward direction, so.


Yeeeeah, this is a good thing. At least I'm going to an art college that has an annual drag show. Should be fun. :v


----------



## Jolty

Gary Oak said:


> I am so glad I have no more attachments to high school. Finally I can start NOT BEING SARAH fff. Properly anywho.


this!
even though like 5 people from school are going to the same uni as me ugh

I wanna get my name changed legally before I get there though
epic stealth a-go-go


speaking of stuff holy shit gender clinic tomorrow I am bricking it
but purely for the travelling. Three buses and two trains in a city far bigger than my own that I have only been to a few times WHAT COULD POSSIBLY GO WRONG


----------



## Harlequin

Cirrus said:


> Easy for you to say when you're not the ones wearing 'em. :B


ARE YOU SURE ABOUT THAT?


----------



## octobr

I'm not certain I really wanna go stealth. I mean it'd be easier, safer, but I want people to _get it_ for other people so that hopefully a little less of the trans community has to deal with the stupid bullshit so much of us get. I guess I'm just kind of a romantic?



Also Glee is being a super great thing for the lgbt community fff


----------



## spaekle

Woohoo, I'm going in a white blazer and some sort of slightly dressy shorts I found. The shorts are brown and will probably show through my gown; if they want to have sand in their vaginas about that they can go right ahead. c: I kind of have an excuse though, since I'm short and skinny as fuck and it's incredibly hard to find things that both fit at my waist and aren't too long. Everything at the store either was too long or had loud patterns or _something_. I hate being short, shopping for clothes in the future is going to be a nightmare.

(they actually put "girls can't wear pants" on the guidelines. I was sort of surprised that even my dad thinks that's bullshit. :o)


----------



## Gardevoir Girl

Hey peeps :3

Whoa, I've been gone over a year. Am I even still on the member list?

So um, nice to be back among people who don't remember me. ^_^;;

Umm, if anyone DOES happen to remember me, I actually came out as transsexual in November. I'm about to go and catch up on the 60 or so pages that have appeared since my last post. Nice to see you all again.


----------



## Dannichu

Wheeeey, well done! If you don't mind me asking, how'd it go?


----------



## Drowzee64

Verne said:


> I'm not certain I really wanna go stealth. I mean it'd be easier, safer, but I want people to _get it_ for other people so that hopefully a little less of the trans community has to deal with the stupid bullshit so much of us get. I guess I'm just kind of a romantic?


If you actually don't go stealth, then you will gain a permanent spot on my list of really badass people. Even if you do, you still get a lot of badass points for being (semi?) openly trans since the world is still in the 1800s when it comes to transsexuality.

Anyways, just thought I'd put this here for the lulz. I'm pretty sure that this guy was trolling the show... hopefully. http://www.thatvideosite.com/video/how_to_stop_being_gay

And on _another_ note, happy Pride Month people. I'm trying to make arrangements to see a pride parade on the 26th because I have nothing else to do in the summer.


----------



## Dinru

Hey you guys we need to be a little more active.

Um, to make this not!spam, guess who painted hir nails rainbowy? :D


----------



## ZimD

there are 71 pages and i am NOT looking through them all to add everyone to the list at the beginning. i might later but not right now

also: it was the end of 8th grade so i decided to come out via facebook status. since it was the end of middle school and i'm not going to see half the people who found out ever again. not many people confronted me about it bc there were two days of school left after i did, but still it felt good to. my family still does not know because i deleted the status before my sister could see it, but having all my friends and shit know who didn't yet felt good and people weren't total douches about it so that was a nice surprise.


----------



## Kinova

Clicks for Gardevoir and Zim. :D

Hey you guyyys have you all seen the Trevor Project* stuff going around on Youtube? It's a support organisation for the LGBTQ community and it's got a big publicity drive going on atm.

We could totally make a collab video being all 'hello we are the gayest forum in the world even though it's not the principle subject of the forum'. P:

(* the guy in that video seems way ott cheerful but w/e)


----------



## Ryan the Terrible

Kinova said:


> Clicks for Gardevoir and Zim. :D
> 
> Hey you guyyys have you all seen the Trevor Project* stuff going around on Youtube? It's a support organisation for the LGBTQ community and it's got a big publicity drive going on atm.
> 
> We could totally make a collab video being all 'hello we are the gayest forum in the world even though it's not the principle subject of the forum'. P:
> 
> (* the guy in that video seems way ott cheerful but w/e)


I have heard about that and it sounds like an incredible organization.


----------



## see ya

Hey all. I've watched this group from afar for quite a while and finally feel like I'm in a position to join.

So after being a rather late bloomer sexually and bouncing up and down the Kinsey scale I'm finally settling into my place...as a roughly 60/40 bisexual. None of my IRL friends or family know this, and I have absolutely no idea how to come out, or even if I should at all. What makes my anxiety even sillier is that my dad and stepmom are the two coolest people in existence when it comes to this sort of thing (My dad would probably be all like "OMG that's so cool let's throw a party for you!")...I guess I'll have to do it eventually, or else I may come home with a girlfriend and then they'll be in for a shock.

(BTW, I find these kids who pretend to be bisexual so other people will think they're cool hilarious and kind of sad. Goshdern Katy Perry and her stupid song...I wonder how many of these girls would actually kiss a girl...and like it...in a non "DERP I'M DRUNK/WHACKED OUT ON HORMONES" sense I have. :D)

Also, I'm pretty sure I'm genderqueer in some way. I don't identify as trans, but I feel weird when people refer to me with female pronouns (not weird in an "my God that's not me stop calling me that" way, just...weird). There's a lot of times where I'll forget I'm a girl entirely and if you put me in a guy's body I'd feel just fine, while there's a lot of things about being female that I find creepy and unnerving (pregnancy...*shudder*) Of course, I still dress like a woman because women's clothes are awesome and pretty (though makeup is a pain in the ass) Overall, my gender feels very fluid. Some days I feel super-girly and wear makeup and all that fun stuff, and others I just want to identify as male and never look back.

But I'll stop derailing the thread now. Wow, we truly are the gayest non-gay centered forum ever, aren't we? :P


----------



## Jolty

I know of a gayer forum than this
the population is a LOT LOT smaller but still I can assure you it's gayer than TCOD :B


----------



## Harlequin

ffft dudes GovTeen is so much gayer than tCoD. It's much bigger, though, so. :B

I AM STILL ALIVE, I DIDN'T DIE OR ANYTHING


----------



## Dinru

Skymin said:


> Also, I'm pretty sure I'm genderqueer in some way. I don't identify as trans, but I feel weird when people refer to me with female pronouns (not weird in an "my God that's not me stop calling me that" way, just...weird). There's a lot of times where I'll forget I'm a girl entirely and if you put me in a guy's body I'd feel just fine, while there's a lot of things about being female that I find creepy and unnerving (pregnancy...*shudder*) Of course, I still dress like a woman because women's clothes are awesome and pretty (though makeup is a pain in the ass) Overall, my gender feels very fluid. Some days I feel super-girly and wear makeup and all that fun stuff, and others I just want to identify as male and never look back.


You... put that very, very well. That's basically exactly how I feel. Good to know I'm not alone :D


----------



## Dannichu

Dinru said:


> Um, to make this not!spam, guess who painted hir nails rainbowy? :D


APPROVAL :D 
I've done that before. Though I have a terrible habit of picking at my nails, eating the paint and then feeling ill afterwards, though, so I don't do it anymore. I'm a fool.

I think the "genderqueer" thing is a lot more common than you'd think. I mean, who _wouldn't_ want to be free from the social pressures put on you because of your sex? You're a guy, you must like sports! You're a girl, you must like pink! The gender binary is absolutely ridiculous, and wanting to be free of it, especially if you're not heterosexual, doesn't (or, at least, shouldn't) make you strange.


----------



## Harlequin

lol im theresa may, i like gays now im supposed to


----------



## see ya

Saw something that made me incredibly happy at my job the other day. 

A woman comes through my register, wearing an absolutely huge gay pride pendant. I smiled like an idiot and told her I really liked her pendant, and that sent her into speech mode as she started talking about standing up for oneself and about America's hypocrisy (screaming "JUSTICE FOR ALL" when gays aren't even given equal rights  and a story on how she was kicked out of the Mormon church because she might "abuse the children)). She thought I was a lesbian at first, and I felt kind of bad correcting her 'cause she was getting so into it. (In retrospect I probably should have told her I'm bi, but not saying it seemed like a good idea at the time)

If you've been around me for more than five seconds on this forum, you've probably heard me say that I live in the American south, and that the rampant ignorance and conservatism of the area and the people I see every day drives me fucking nuts. So to see that this woman not only had the COURAGE to wear that pendant in public, but also an entire arsenal of arguments to defend herself at a moment's notice was the coolest thing ever. You people who live in areas where things like that are common should be very grateful, because where I live, that had NEVER happened to me before.

So I shook her hand and wished her the best of luck. I feel like my gay rights-supporting engine has been kicked into full drive now.


----------



## Dinru

Yay Skymin! That girl sounds amazing. Best of luck with everything and yeah :3

Also, this is incredible.


----------



## shy ♡

I thought this was awesome.


----------



## Lili

Pentimento, that's super touching. I hate how some Christians are judgemental and homophobic, even though their own God said that no one could judge except for him. Kind of ironic, eh?


----------



## Dannichu

Awww, I loved reading the comments section on that blogpost <3 Obviously religious people oppressing the LGBT community hurts, but gay people hating all religious people/Christians on sight is just as narrow-minded. I really love it when the two viewpoints come together like that.

Hehe, Dinru's link is eye-opening, as well as being darkly funny. Hate leaflets like the ones it's parodying are horrendous.


----------



## shy ♡

I completely agree with you both. It's just a shame that the bigoted religious people are the loudest. 

This is also awesome.



> The danger isn’t just to the millions of children with lesbian or gay parents. If their friends and classmates see that same-sex couples are raising happy and healthy children without marriage (as valid academic studies continue to show), they, too, may begin to wonder if marriage is even needed for successful child rearing.
> 
> This argument also answers the question of why domestic partnerships or civil unions won’t do. They provide some or all of the rights and benefits of marriage, but they will not—by definition—show children what it means to be “married.” Instead, they will convey that an alternative is acceptable.
> 
> This is not to say that everyone will or should regard marriage as necessary. That is a personal choice faced by each person. The sweeping exclusion of same-sex couples from marriage, however, takes it away from the realm of personal choice and makes the statement that it isn’t necessary for an entire group of people. That, as I see it, is far more damaging to the institution.”


Also OT but Dannichu, I love your user title thing. Sue ftw.


----------



## Dannichu

Hehe, thank you :)

That's really interesting and very true. I read a study a while back (it might've been posted here, actually) that essentially said that children raised with two mothers, compared to those with a mother and father, tended to be better-adjusted.

Aha, here we go:

Lesbian Parents Better at Raising Children The Times, 2009
"Compared with a group of control adolescents born to heterosexual parents with similar educational and financial backgrounds, the children of lesbian couples scored better on academic and social tests and lower on measures of rule-breaking and aggression."

Children of Lesbian Parents Do Better Than Their Peers NewScientist, 2010
"[Experts] have found, over years of research, that children brought up by female couples are more aspirational and more confident in championing social justice."

WHERE IS YOUR MARRIAGE NOW??


----------



## shy ♡

I think I saw that on The Colbert Report, of all places, haha. I love this sort of research. I wish more people knew about it, though.


----------



## opaltiger

Hi, guys! I feel like updating you on the situation in Slovenia because I am nearly allowing myself to be optimistic.

I went to Ljubljana Pride the other day. In attendance was the minister for internal affairs, and the minister for justice was absent only due to illness but provided a very strongly worded statement in support of the revised Family Code, which would legalise samesex marriage and adoption. The president of the lower house of parliament also spoke.

It passed the first reading back in March. It _should_ pass the second. The government is backing it. All the government has to do is _not fall apart._ Then the Supreme Court has to strike down any attempted referenda against it, which is slightly more of an issue, but given that they ruled that non-straight people represented a protected minority a few years back, we should be fine. Said minister for internal affairs - who is perhaps the only credible politician we have, and who has more or less single-handedly engineered this law - said she wasn't worried about a potential referendum. We shall see.

In conclusion: if luck holds just a few more months, Slovenia should legalise samesex marriage by the end of the year. It would only take effect in May next year, but still. Be optimistic with me? :D?


----------



## surskitty

How likely is it that your government will fall apart?

[is optimistic]


----------



## opaltiger

James said:


> How likely is it that your government will fall apart?
> 
> [is optimistic]


Reasonably unlikely. It is more stable than it was in April!


----------



## Vladimir Putin's LJ

Woo Slovenia <3 I'm rooting for you guys!
Also this government fail is an increasing trend in Europe, but tbh it's not that bad. We went 150+ days without it last year and right now we don't have a proper one and we're doing alright. Lol Belgium.


----------



## shy ♡

More off-topic (on-topic?) linkage - Today Show Petitioned to Include Gays in its Wedding Contest. I never watch The Today Show, but this is sorta cool.


----------



## shy ♡

Yup, double post, but this deserves it: Argentine Senate backs bill legalising gay marriage.



> Argentina has become the first country in Latin America to legalise gay marriage after the Senate voted in favour.
> 
> The country's Chamber of Deputies had already approved the legislation.


:D


----------



## Dinru

¡¡¡Viva la Argentina!!! As someone who's incredibly interested in both gay rights and Latin American culture, this is a double-whammy of awesomesauce :D


----------



## Dannichu

Whooo Slovenia! :D
God, UK, get yourself _together._

Speaking of the UK, the BBC did a report the other day and found that out of 126 hours of broadcasting, 46 minutes of it showed positive gay representation.

Also, "BBC One transmitted 44 seconds of positive and realistic portrayal of gay people in more than 39 hours of output", which is pretty shocking when one considers that the BBC is publicly funded, which really should mean the amount of airtime dedicated to representing gay people on TV is somewhat proportional to the percentage of TV license payers who are gay - which is probably around 10%.

It's actually pretty interesting because, in my experience, the UK does a pretty good job at representing gay people, but that could be because I'm comparing it to US telly, which kills of something like 80% of its lesbian characters.

Stuff like Torchwood and Skins have been pretty positive, I reckon, and while gay people deserve _actual_ representation rather than just implication, the Beeb is certianly not shy about cramming in as much gay subtext into any of its shows as humanly possible - Merlin, Dr Who, Sherlock and even stuff like Top Gear put the US's most ho!yay-ish couples to shame.

Thoughts?


----------



## Tailsy

Deputy Lib Dem leader Simon Hughes says government will allow gay couples to marry

:)!


----------



## Zeph

Jessie said:


> Deputy Lib Dem leader Simon Hughes says government will allow gay couples to marry
> 
> :)!


I never post here normally but _yesss thank you Mr. Government Man_.


----------



## Vladimir Putin's LJ

DCam: *votes for Section 28 and against gay adoption* lololol
*becomes Prime Minister*
DCam: Have I mentioned how open-minded I am today?

I mean, it's great that it's happening, but if public opinion leant in favour of playing tennis with dynamite he would immediately support it.


----------



## Tailsy

I know. It's why I hate him so much! (Along with other things such as 'he is a posh English twat' and 'I hate his face' and 'he is a Tory')

But he was tonguing the gay community's arses during the election campaign, so it's nice to see he's at least attempting to live up to his promises. :) And my brother is really happy.


----------



## Dinru

No more Proposition 8!


----------



## Dannichu

Whoooooop! :DDD


----------



## Adriane

It's not really over yet. It's definitely going to get appealed.


----------



## Diz

Hi, I'm bi, I've got a crush on a guy.

Yay rhyme.

I also live in straightsville and only one person I know IRL knows.


----------



## Zuu

I'm considering officially coming out to those I know in real life, but subtly. Or something.

In all honesty I'm bi so it's not really that big of a deal, but. Eh.

For that matter, I guess I don't really understand the point of 'coming out'. Is it really that big of a deal? I don't see the need of making an announcement of it, just respond honestly to people who ask and correct people when they make an incorrect assumption. Hrm.


----------



## Mhaladie

On Prop 8 less serious-ly; I thought this was fairly hilarious.

Definitely an excellent step on that, though! :D


----------



## spaekle

Mhaladie said:


> On Prop 8 less serious-ly; I thought this was fairly hilarious.


hahaha, I love that.

I'm sure I posted this somewhere on TCoD before but This one is great too. 

(what it's parodying, if you don't know)

Kind of funny, too - the day Prop 8 got overturned it _poured_ the rain where I live. :v


----------



## Dannichu

Mhaladie said:


> On Prop 8 less serious-ly; I thought this was fairly hilarious.
> 
> Definitely an excellent step on that, though! :D


The fact that CJ/Allison Janney is in that (and as a gay-hating Republican!) amuses me so, _so_ much <3

I love Spaekle's vid, too. The original is bloody scary, though o.O


----------



## ...

I can joinz club? I'm bi, in all definition of the word.


----------



## Diz

DeviantArt, against hate art, not against art stating to be proud of hating.


----------



## Dinru

Oh god that's horrible. I reported the stamp with a link to the news article; not sure if that'll do any good or not.


----------



## spaekle

dA's just a cesspool of retarded drama anyway. It's no wonder a lot of legit artists don't want anything to do with it.

Edit: Let's see, other stamps this person has made:

"Freedom of Speech is Verbal Bullying"
"Pansexuality is a big big lie" (with a little marquee at the bottom saying "they're all after your body" for some reason)
"I secretly pee in the shower"
"I fart secretly in public" 
"yaoi makes me wanna puke"
"I don't support fursonas or whatever you call them" (why is this person even on deviantart?)
"encyclopedia dramatica is my bible" (oh okay)
"I didn't join dA for fucking PORN" 
and then "we want more porn on dA"

...wtf? I'm assuming this homophobe one is just for the pageviews, but why does this person contradict themselves so much?


----------



## octobr

Sometimes I think maaaaybe they're just in it for the drama.

Which I can understand, so maybe that's wishful thinking


----------



## Adriane

Spaekle said:


> dA's just a cesspool of retarded drama anyway. It's no wonder a lot of legit artists don't want anything to do with it.


I'm thinking this more and more every day.



> ...wtf? I'm assuming this homophobe one is just for the pageviews, but why does this person contradict themselves so much?


I've read through their comments, and seem to just act like a /b/tard that got rejected by 4chan and has nothing better to do than troll dA instead. They're hurtful and bitter, and use sarcasm rather than logic to attack others' comments. When someone posts a completely sensible comment with nothing for him to snark at, he will ignore it completely and go find someone else's comment to make fun of.


----------



## ultraviolet

... and this is why I gave up taking deviantART seriously a long, _long _time ago. I only go there to look at other people's art, now.


----------



## ultraviolet

... and this is why I gave up taking deviantART seriously a long, _long _time ago. I only go there to look at other people's art, now.


----------



## octobr

So wow guys lately I have been having huge disconnects with my body. It's shit. I usually don't have issues with the physical thing, not huge ones anyway; most of the gender dysphoria is concerned with peoples' perception of me, so I'm more interested in someone understanding me as or seeing me as male than how my body actually looks. As of late, though, it's been a big concern for me ... sort of a deep sense of incompleteness or something, it's almost like not feeling real. 

The worst is knowing that even if, by some crazy chance, I can afford surgery and all that, I will still be short and curvy and feminine. 

Dammit I do not need this right before I go off to college


----------



## Leaftail

This has been a very... interesting summer for me. I've shown signs of homosexuality for years, but I've always either ignored or denied it (and occasionally joked about it). I never really considered myself gay or bi. But over the summer, I've started to accept it. It climaxed about a month ago when I developed a crush on... a certain male youtuber.

...May I join the club now, plz?


----------



## Harlequin

SO HEY GAYS I AM STILL ALIVE AND GAY

I am still incredibly single and in the closet. It is bad times, bad times I do say. HOWEVER I am starting university in like three weeks and apparently Cardiff has a decent LGBT group or whatever. My gay friend at Cardiff is no help there because he signed up and never went to a single meeting. OH WELL

hey Verne how is university? I SAW YOUR FACEBOOK STATUS and also it sucks with the whole body disconnect thing ;    ;


----------



## nyuu

I asked this in the gay-debate thread, but this is more of a gay-interest than a gay-debate thing SO

*dear queers:* have any of you ~come out~ to friends or family? what was it like?


----------



## Zuu

NWT said:


> *dear queers:* have any of you ~come out~ to friends or family? what was it like?


I told my mom to watch a certain movie (Momento) and I informed her that the lead actor, Guy Pearce, is cute.

she took a few moments to process it, laughed, told me not to mention it around my dad, and not a single fuck was given.


----------



## ...

Posted this in the Homosexuality Debate thread too~

Six of my best friends know, and they don't treat me any different than they did before they knew; albeit cracking up whenever a guy who doesn't know about my bisexuality jokingly hugs me. Even my best best friend, who is homophobic though I didn't know when I came out to him, hardly cares. I don't get offended by homophobic comments or gay jokes either, which is good for those who don't know I'm bi because I'm not letting on to anything. 

None of my family knows except _maybe_ my sister who may or may not have caught on in passing, but she ain't even going to say anything until she knows fo show.


----------



## Michi

Umm I think it would be best for me to join, please? :P
In response to NWT, I'm bi and I've told three friends, but not my best friend. Who happens to by the guy I like. Sooooo yeah, he totally thinks I'm straight. :[
I plan to tell my family in oh, about 10 years maybe.


----------



## spaekle

Most of my good friends know I'm queer. No one at college does yet, but I hope to remedy this by joining the LGBT club next week! 

I also came out to a teacher once. Or, well, I got outed. I was talking to her with a gay friend of mine about gay things, and she suddenly asks "so are you gay too, or...?" and my friend felt the need to answer for me all "LOL SPAEKLE'S A MAN!!!!111" at which point I had to explain to the teacher that I was queer-gendered. She didn't seem to mind, though it was never brought up again. She did make the friend who outed me apologize later though. 

Very very in the closet at home. My parents have always been very "we love you and we'll do anything for you", but they're also very conservative and I know my dad sees transsexuals as crazy people with mental problems. Something tells me they'd probably think I'm just confused or something. Though if you look back on my life and put two and two together it really all kind of makes sense.  Not sure if they'd get that or not.


----------



## Jolty

NWT said:


> *dear queers:* have any of you ~come out~ to friends or family? what was it like?


friends: they're all cool beans with it, none of them see it as a big deal
family: dad thought it was a phase for years, now accepts it as legit lol, mum doesn't mind, siblings don't care.


more relevant things
>going to uni in less than 3 weeks, I have gotten my doctor to send them a letter confirming I am doing the gender reassignment thing (their words not mine)
>so I shall be on the uni's system as Brandon and not Rebecca
>I plan to join the LGBT society in fresher's week... but as a bisexual person not a transgendered person. I don't really want people knowing I'm trans herpderp


----------



## Zeph

NWT said:


> I asked this in the gay-debate thread, but this is more of a gay-interest than a gay-debate thing SO
> 
> *dear queers:* have any of you ~come out~ to friends or family? what was it like?


Eh, may as well copy what I posted there (Also you seem to have linked to my post in that thread rather than yours).

Yeah, pretty much everybody I know knows I'm gay. It was a little weird at first but I'm fine with it now. It doesn't, uh, offend me when people attempt to make fun of me for it or anything either, it's pretty amusing really. And my friends always make mock-homophobic jokes about it (Like, uh, bad example but "No, you're incorrect, because you're gay" or whatever), which is all in good fun.

As for my family, yeah, they all know too and are fine with it, because having a liberal family is fun.


----------



## nyuu

(I wasn't sure if you'd repost! I want to put something in the other thread that's like "actually talk about this _here_" but idk we are equal opportunity posters it would seem)

I've never had to. I am ~vaguely bi I guess~ and sometimes I wish I could be a pretty princess c: but the thing is, whenever mom or dad bring up, say, hypotheticals about relationships or kids or something, they include both genders or keep it neutral. I've never done much to suggest I'm anything other than straight, which makes it doubly cool.


----------



## Minish

I'm out to pretty much everyone. It's just not a big deal for me, there was no real... coming out thing for me. My school friends are 90% queer for some reason so they don't care. In fact, we regularly poke fun at the non-queer members of our little group. >3

As for family... mum knows, threw a hissy fit of great raaaage and shoooock when she first found out and then got over it. Occasionally she'll go "ahaha well um it's not like this is relevant 'cause you won't exactly be having sex with MEN will you". I don't think she quite understands the concept of bisexuality. :| She's a bit odd about it but we don't exactly speak about my queerness so it's fine.

I haven't told my dad but if he hasn't figured out by this point he's a stranger man than I thought. Basically, nobody gives a crap about it. Me and my friends all came out at school in about... year 9 and people gave us hassle about it for a year or so but now nobody cares/has forgotten.

So. Yeah.


----------



## ...

Cirrus said:


> As for family... mum knows, threw a hissy fit of great raaaage and shoooock when she first found out and then got over it. Occasionally she'll go "ahaha well um it's not like this is relevant 'cause you won't exactly be having sex with MEN will you". I don't think she quite understands the concept of bisexuality. :| She's a bit odd about it but we don't exactly speak about my queerness so it's fine.


This is how I'd imagine my parents to be. Except with women instead of men. Sadly, at this point in my life if she found out, _she'd be right._


----------



## Bluberry Bat

Pretty much anyone who may have known me previously knows both my 'issues'. I'm rather vocal about it really, as I really don't see a need to live a lie for some randoms nor friends alike. So far none have had a(n obvious) problem with it (sans my parents, what with the hateful spewing while trying to act like they care about me, but I have to /live/ with them.. until December. Heeeee~), but I'm of the vein that if they don't like it, they can shove it outright, because I see no need to deal with them. As far as being lesbian (Well, bi/pan, but since I've got an ~*OMG GIRLFRIEND*~ most will look past that utterly) it's not like I'm going to hide it from anyone, and for the same reasons.
For the most part, people will find out immediately, I'll gauge if they're okay with it; if not we never speak again, is so we never speak /of/ it again. So it tends to work for me.


----------



## Dinru

Friends have mostly been cool about it. Christian/conservative friend was all like "OMG U WILL BURN IN HELL DON'T TOUCH ME!!!11!" at first but he got over it and has shifted his beliefs a bit.

Close family is fine with it, but my mom is sometimes like "Well, what if you AREN'T? You can't know for sure..." Otherwise everyone's cool.

Extended family doesn't talk about it, except one uncle who lectures me and my sister regularly about how we've been lead down the "devil's path" and it isn't too late to "convert", and used to rant at my mom about how she's not raising us down the "right path" (i.e. Conservative Lutheran), until my mom pointed out that she hasn't been going down that path at all since she moved out at 16. He shut up about it; and this other cousin of mine thinks that my sexuality, as well as my general views of the world, are the coolest things since sliced bread.

People in general tend to be cool about it amongst the younger crowd, although there's the occasional immature person who will call me a whore/bitch/fence-sitter, or will accuse me of cheating on my boyfriend/accuse me of being an attention whore when I tell them I'm not dating anyone else. I've perfected a glance that can shut most people up, though. And most people who are older than me know better than to do anything in regards to my sexuality.


----------



## Flazeah

My immediate family - mother, father and brother - know I like women. Some friends do too. I'm thinking at the moment that I'm bisexual, but I'm not absolutely certain. Going to uni is going to be a very interesting time in my life - I hope I meet some awesome people at my uni's LGBT club. I guess I'll join as bi.

 I did tell my mother a few weeks ago that I think I'm attracted to both after having told her previously that I only liked women, or something like that. She's probably told my dad what I've recently told her, so I'm assuming I don't need to tell him.


----------



## see ya

So I think I half-accidentally, half-intentionally came out to my dad. Either way, I'm pretty sure he knows now.

I remembered the aforementioned story with the lesbian with the gay pride pendant when he came to pick me up from work and I told him. He joked with me that I should find a nice girlfriend and run off to San Francisco. I shrugged and went "eh...", in a sort of "I could live with that" tone. Then he kind of sputtered for a brief second, and that's when I think he figured it out. 

He also made a similar joke about a week later (when I bought my "come out come out wherever you are" shirt, saying that I might just get some offers, to which I made the same reply as I did his first joke), but he hasn't really confronted me about it directly yet. Nor do I know if he's told my stepmom. Whatever it is, he seems cool with it, like I knew he'd be. :3


----------



## Dannichu

Jolty said:


> >going to uni in less than 3 weeks, I have gotten my doctor to send them a letter confirming I am doing the gender reassignment thing (their words not mine)
> >so I shall be on the uni's system as Brandon and not Rebecca
> >I plan to join the LGBT society in fresher's week... but as a bisexual person not a transgendered person. I don't really want people knowing I'm trans herpderp


Please, ignore me if I'm being invasive.

How are you going to introduce yourself at uni? Will your lecturers/seminar leaders know you're trans if you're on the register as Brandon?

On the "who knows that you're LGBT?" thing, friends at uni know (most of them are gay themselves), family almost certianly knows but we've never had a sit-down and talk about it or anything, and friends at home pretty much all identify as heterosexual but have more crushes on/sexual fantasies about the same sex than I do (my straight sister wants to do all sorts with Hayley Williams).
So they know I like women (my love of Amber Benson is hardly secret), but I don't think they know I'm gay. They're an amusing group of people.


----------



## shy ♡

Hrr, excuse me as I post out of nowhere.

I don't like the concept of 'coming out'. Straight people aren't expected to come out. Why should anyone else? If you're LGBT, it's... it just is. If someone is close enough to you to know, they'll know it because 1. you talk about finding someone attractive, 2. you have a significant other of the gender you find attractive. Coming out just seems ridiculous to me.

This is why I get annoyed whenever my mom asks me. :v She has reached the point of thinking _I_ don't know. Of course I know. I'm just annoyed at her constant questioning. 

So, er - no, I'm not 'out', but I'm not 'in' either.


----------



## Zhorken

When I was fourteen, I told my little brother that I had some big secret.  I got him to pay me $25 (in EB Games store credit he had) to tell him I was bi.

Other than that, I've only 'come out' by mentioning it offhand.  I don't get much of a reaction most of the time.  Mom was fascinated for a moment, asking me a bunch of questions—general things like "when did you realize", I forget exactly—but past that, nothing, really.  I've never told dad, but I sort of suspect mom told him.

I don't think any of my extended family knows, and my friends just sort of... know.  From seeing me talk about it.  Even more offhand than usual, I guess.


----------



## Minish

Pentimento said:


> I don't like the concept of 'coming out'. Straight people aren't expected to come out. Why should anyone else? If you're LGBT, it's... it just is. If someone is close enough to you to know, they'll know it because 1. you talk about finding someone attractive, 2. you have a significant other of the gender you find attractive. Coming out just seems ridiculous to me.


I see coming out just as a subtle change from being 'in' and being 'out'. Being out of the closet for me is feeling that if someone asks you what your sexuality is, you will give them an honest answer, that other people start to know, etc. For me, coming out is just transitioning from keeping it a relative secret to being open about it. Hence how you can be out to some people but not to all.

I think coming out has a different meaning now, as queerness becomes more accepted. It's still a relevant thing though, or at least I think so.


----------



## ultraviolet

Pentimento said:
			
		

> I don't like the concept of 'coming out'. Straight people aren't  expected to come out. Why should anyone else? If you're LGBT, it's... it  just is. If someone is close enough to you to know, they'll know it  because 1. you talk about finding someone attractive, 2. you have a  significant other of the gender you find attractive. Coming out just  seems ridiculous to me.
> 
> This is why I get annoyed whenever my mom asks me. :v She has reached the point of thinking _I_ don't know. Of course I know. I'm just annoyed at her constant questioning.
> 
> So, er - no, I'm not 'out', but I'm not 'in' either.


I feel this too - I've never felt a great need to go and tell my family or anyone who doesn't know that I'm bisexual. I don't regularly talk about my sexuality with my family anyway so it's not like it's ever come up - but nearly all of my friends know, because we _do_ talk about that stuff. I did kind of try to tell my mother about it a few years ago, but she told me it was a 'stage', and that she'd gone through the same thing and kissed a woman. :P But I don't really care or anything, I know she wouldn't care either. I guess I'm kind of lucky in that respect.


----------



## shy ♡

Cirrus said:


> I see coming out just as a subtle change from being 'in' and being 'out'. Being out of the closet for me is feeling that if someone asks you what your sexuality is, you will give them an honest answer, that other people start to know, etc. For me, coming out is just transitioning from keeping it a relative secret to being open about it. Hence how you can be out to some people but not to all.
> 
> I think coming out has a different meaning now, as queerness becomes more accepted. It's still a relevant thing though, or at least I think so.


Yes, I think the difference mostly is if someone asks you, how you answer. That meaning, whether you are out to yourself. Coming out to other people isn't important; coming out to yourself is.

But people usually realize this stuff when they're young, so it just seems like an odd question to me. Well, either when they're young or really old, heh.


----------



## Jolty

Dannichu said:


> Please, ignore me if I'm being invasive.
> 
> How are you going to introduce yourself at uni? Will your lecturers/seminar leaders know you're trans if you're on the register as Brandon?


I'd just introduce myself as if I was cisgendered. Like anyone else would.

And I dunno if my lecturers would know, as far as I know the timetables haven't been made for joint honours students yet so they might not have to know at all... but if they did know (maybe the admin people would /have/ to tell them?), so long as they used the right pronouns and everything straight away I'd have no problem with them being aware of it.


----------



## Adriane

I'm registered as Andrew because that's still my legal name, but I'm Adriane Fox to all my professors/peers because that's what I introduce myself as. *shrug*


----------



## Amfibbian

Er. Hi. I belong here I guess? 

I'm just your average teenage boy with an 'F' next to the word 'gender' on various documents pertaining to him. :/ 

But I've only really told two people irl I'm trans, which would be my dad and my best friend, though my dad told my mom (who doesn't seem to get it eugh but at the same time doesn't care). When I told my dad I was worried he would get mad or something but instead he went 'oh. Yeah I've been suspecting that for awhile now. I love you no matter what... Son.' He keeps switching between calling me a guy and a girl but what more can I expect from a guy who points at a guy with long hair running down the street in a really girly manner holding a handbag, wearing short shorts, flip-flops, and a tight T-shirt, and says "HEY LOOK AT THAT HOMO! HAHAHA!" ? (that really did happen.) He knows I like men, too. girls are cute but I'm like 'eew, boobs'

And then I told my best friend over a course of awhile, like I'd mention things at times it was relevant, and then she still didn't really get her so I told her everything, but she still doesn't get it, fff. She keeps calling me a girl (even though everyone who doesn't know me recognizes me as male, 'cause I don't look, dress, sound, or act feminine) I keep telling her to stop it because it's seriously upsetting me now. She keeps telling me I'm a girl who 'pretends' to be a guy and shit like that. Today she said I'm a girl until I 'change stuff' ;-; She's totally cool with the LGBT community and all and supports it, but she just doesn't understands the T part, it seems. :| 
I have no clue how to get her to understand and if anyone has anything helpful I could try on her I'd love them forever.


----------



## Zeph

So an interesting subject was brought up in the Sexuality thread - Does anybody beyond friends, family and peers, more specifically teachers at school/university/whatever, know of your, ah, LGBT-ness?

Myself, I'm pretty sure that several teachers probably know from my, uh, somewhat colourful clothing, overhearing conversations with friends and noticing some of the less-than-masculine tendencies I have (I know that feminine traits and colourful dressing isn't always a sign of homosexuality, before I am leapt on for this!), but I've never outright told anybody. Although I think in the GCSE religious studies exam there was a question about homosexuals being allowed to use IVF, and if I recall correctly I mentioned it in passing there as a backup to my opinion, so some examiner somewhere whom I've never met might know!

Also, welcome, Amfibbian!


----------



## Minish

Welcome, Amfibbian! :) Apart from the peculiar "hey look at that homo" thing, your dad sounds very cool. Every time I bring up trans issues to my mum she gets panicky, as if expecting me to suddenly announce that I'm trans myself. She clearly knows nothing about transgenderism, but I'm trying to educate her. I don't even want to bring it up with my dad because, awesome as he otherwise is, it's just something I reeeeally can't imagine him even beginning to comprehend (he's 57, which might go some way in explaining).

Yeah, loads of people at school know about the LGBTness of me and all my friends. One of my friends in particular, rather, considering that she has very short cropped hair and just... yeah. If she weren't so petite and feminine-looking she would be _very_ butch. The students all know us as "the lesbian crowd" (even though none of us are _actually_ lesbians) and used to gossip about us a lot, so I'm sure loads of teachers heard about us. I'm pretty sure at least a few of them have mistaken me and my friend as being girlfriends, and I've had many conversations with teachers about LGBT issues. Considering that not many people talk about LGBT stuff at my school unless they're LGBT themselves, for, I suppose, understandable reasons (we _were_ kind of bullied for a few years because of our bisexuality... yeah, 'our', my three best friends are all bisexual), the teachers probably assume.

Also, our usually-evil head of year told us we could do Day of Silence a few years ago, so I would be shocked if she hadn't figured it out. Once me and my friend had just had a thrilling argument with two boys in our class about gay marriage rights, and when they left, we proceeded to discuss how they were quite clearly going out and in denial. XD It was hilarious.

My school's pretty LGBT-friendly though. Everyone knows us as the out crowd, we act and talk about jolly old gay things all the time, and I've never met a genuinely homophobic teacher there. /ramble


----------



## Jolty

Lower school: already explained about that one teacher who pulled me out of a lesson. Other than her, I think my PE teachers knew too... iirc I told them about how I was bullied in that lesson and how getting changed was kind of the worst thing ever lol.

Upper school: I know an english teacher I had knew. One time we had to make some non-advertising leaflets, and I decided to do mine on homophobia. Lol.
Some other teachers might've known but I forget.

Sixth Form: English teachers again lol. For year 13 coursework we had to read three texts and then kind of make our own question up to write an essay on. If that makes any sense. I did mine on gender and sexuality :B

Uni: ~*who knows yet*~


----------



## Dark Shocktail

Hi. I guess I go here since I'm sexually curious and won't say no to a girl if asked. 

I haven't 'come out' so to speak. I've mention to my sister that I sometimes look at girls and think "I'd tap that", but otherwise I haven't really brought it up to anyone. Not my irl friends, my mum or anyone else. I started feeling this way after I left compulsory education, so none of my teachers where ever a bother. I knew a surprising number of lesbians though but it didn't really bother me when we changed for P.E. Me and my friends were pretty lax about that sort of thing and I wasn't their type anyway.

So yeah. Bicurious with no experience of either.


----------



## Leaftail

I've been having gay thoughts since the middle of the sixth grade (which I consider the grade where my life starting to suck). I hated it. There was one kid who said I was gay (really he just said that because I liked Pokemon) at every possible opportunity. I promised myself to prove him wrong. 

Eventually I found out I was in fact the one who was wrong all these years. When I was finally able to admit it to myself, I made a new promise - that I would be proud of who I am.

I wanted to tell my friend by the end of the first week of school. I didn't. By the end of the second week, he still doesn't know, but I told five of my other friends (I happened to end up on the same van as the 5 people on my cross country team that I am most friendly with. So I told them (in a rather fun way, actually, but I digress. And considering this post is getting pretty big, I can't afford to digress. But I digress.)).

In English class a few days ago, we got an assignment on thesis statements. We had to respnd to a prompt - "Your girlfriend/boyfriend is upset that you spend too little time with them. Take a position as arguing from the side of wanting to spend more time or wanting to spend less time together." I wasn't going to say I had a girlfriend, so...

In retrospect, I should have been ambiguous with the gender. So now, the teacher knows my dirty little secret.

...Quite a predicament I have gotten myself into. I have him on Monday for the first time since I handed in that paper. Really (and I'm not even sure why), the only thing worse than him bringing up the subject when he gives me the paper is him not saying anything about it. *Sigh* It's gonna be a tough school day tomorrow...


----------



## Amfibbian

Thanks ;)

Haha, my teacher found out. Because on the first day we received credit history sheets to review so we could plan out what to work on this year, I crossed out my name and wrote 'Robert' above it, and then crossed out the F next to gender and put an M in its place. I didn't think we had to give them back though. FFFF oh well. He doesn't care and now calls me "Lieutenant" (hes a strange man, and gives most people random nick names so it doesn't seem weird to anyone he calls me that.) 

Oh and I have a counselor who I talk to, she's actually the one who got me to tell my dad, I probably never would have said anything to him otherwise X) But my dad is cool, its fun in restaurants and such when the waiter/waitress calls me Sir and my dad acts normal. I can understand him calling me his daughter or whatever though, I mean, that's what I've been for all my life (though when my mom was pregnant he insisted I was a boy.) to him, so it's hard to suddenly change that. 

Though I wanna slap my friend for ruining every time I try introduce myself to someone new around her and she steps in and goes "shes a girl" >:c but the rest of our group of friends call me he, because they nicknamed me Sweden (APH nerds. But all these girls are adorable. fff I have a soft spot for nerdy girls, especially chubby-ish ones with glasses and dimpled cheeks.)


----------



## ...

My homophobic friend is ready to bitchslap me. 

It's hilarious.


----------



## Ryan the Terrible

Okay fun story.

So I had been actually considering the subtle change mentioned in this thread (because I lurk here when I should probably post occasionally), and I was leaning towards setting a day when I would set that change and be prepared for "the question" from then on. Then one day a couple weeks ago, one of my best friends actually came out to _me_. I acted like I would want a person to act if I told them, like he had just said he's left handed.

Really though, there were a few things going through my head:
-Wow, there's actually another homo in Missouri?
-Wonder how everyone else in Straightsville is going to take this.
-What does this mean for me coming out?

So within the next couple days he tells a few more people, things go around, and it's out there. Apart from a couple of girls who suddenly wanted to know if he wanted to go shopping with them (he didn't :P), no one really cared, even the people I thought wouldn't take it well. Now at this point I felt like a total coward who's been worrying about nothing for the past few months. Dx

So earlier today I was over at his house. We haven't really talked about it much since he told me, but today it came up, don't exactly remember how, and he said, "You know, I was actually really surprised that you didn't mind that." So I just decided what the hell. "Yeah, I just don't really find it to be a very big deal. Actually I'm gay too."

He was actually pretty surprised, I guess I should take that as a compliment. :P After that gayness ensued. (No, not THAT kind of gayness.) He wanted to know what I was planning as far as telling more people, he thinks I should start telling people now but I'm not sure I should, given that he just did. Considering it now, I think I'll just stick to the plan of answering differently. People will probably start asking me soon given the ripple effect misconceptions I predict in the near future (he's gay so all his friends must be too). And of course there'd be whole new crap going around if I said yes, however I'd never be able to avoid that no matter how I timed it, and I don't really care what people think anyway.

Probably I'll just say it. Screw people and what they think.

WOW THAT WAS A WALL OF TEXT. That happens when I space out while typing and just start saying whatever comes to mind. :P


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## ...

^TCoD needs a like button.


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## Nope

Newest bisexual in town, I guess I am. Discovered it last Tuesday, and I kind of "came out " to some of my friends and my family yesterday and today. Is it just me, or is it mentally exhausting even when you know they won't mind? ;(

So, uh, got a big crush on a girl in my class, even though I don't know her too well.

Hi?


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## Zeph

Bakun said:


> Is it just me, or is it mentally exhausting even when you know they won't mind? ;(


Oh no, it was just as bad for me! And I make sure to only associate with/be related to people who are liberal! It took many hours (as in, from start of "There's something I have to tell you" to actually admitting) for me to tell my family, and yet...!


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## Diz

Yeah, it's pretty stressful coming out, period.

And I'm never telling my family.


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## Dark Shocktail

I haven't really come out to my folks. My friends kinda know (largely because they're a queer bunch themselves) but eh...I don't really want to go up to my folks and announce it, cos that's making a big deal out of it.


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## Flazeah

I decided to admit it when the topic came up. When that time came, though, and my mum asked me whether I liked women or something - I was quite nervous. Just forced it out, I suppose.

 Then recently I told her I think I might "like both". Thing is, I don't exactly _know_ whether I'm into men as well. I've been trying to think about it seriously, and as matter of interest, attempting to remember any "signs" or indications that I might have liked blokes when I was younger. I've realised that I admired a lot of women, and I didn't really know the reason back then, but I honestly can't remember really feeling that way about blokes. *shrugs* Time will tell? Heh.


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## ...

I'm prolly never going to tell anyone in my family, even if they ask. Unless I start going out with a guy and they know it, it's not much of a big deal. To me, at least. To my parents, homosexuality of any form is repulsive and is bringing our society down. I ignore their homophobic and anti-gay comments when they come up. I'm not bringing society down in any way now, am I? And surely none of you guys are either. Soo I don't even know what they'd say or do if I ever came out to them. Plenty of my friends know. They don't treat me any different.


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## Zeph

Ryubane said:


> To my parents, homosexuality of any form is repulsive and is bringing our society down. I ignore their homophobic and anti-gay comments when they come up.


Next time they say something, you should try and turn it into a debate about homosexuality. Tell them why it's, uh, not repulsive.


...Unless they're the kind of parents who would smite you down instantly for just saying a word against their opinions.


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## ...

Zephyrous Castform said:


> ...Unless they're the kind of parents who would smite you down instantly for just saying a word against their opinions.


Yeah, this is why I have to ignore them. :(


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## Jolty

I came out to my parents kind of... in passing

"Dad I'm bi, that's okay right"
"Of course it is, but y'know you're still really young lol"
"Ok seeya"

dunno if my mum even remembers :B


Good god coming out about being transgendered though
Shitting bricks forever
Took THREE attempts to tell my dad, first two ended badly and the third I wrote a letter haha. And because /that/ worked, I did the same for my mum.


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## Nope

Hai gais, it's Celebrate Bisexuality Day which I didn't know of until a few minutes ago :D


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## ...

^YESSSSSSSS

I will celebrate epically.


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## Drowzee64

OK who turned my school proud overnight? I want to hug him/her so bad.

Basically, toward the end of last school year I noticed that the attitude towards LGBT kids in my school started to show a bit of progress. I even saw a same-sex couple holding hands for the first time ever around the time of final exams.

Then during the summer a bisexual girl asked me to start a LGBT club with her at my school. I agreed, but we still haven't worked up the guts to start it. Also over the summer, me and my new found homo homies (Don't kill me) started publicly displaying our sexualities on Facebook. (It's a GREAT alternative to coming out.)

This year, I see same-sex couples hugging, holding hands, and occasionally even kissing (Not making out, cuz not even straight people are allowed to do that lol) on a *regular basis* _and no one even stares_.

This is *awesome beyond words*.

EDIT: Also I will make sure to appreciate my bisexual friends tomorrow. :D


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## Diz

Does anyone here have Gay-dar? 

I noticed that I kinda have an ability to pick out people who might be gay at our school, but since no one is out, it's impossible to tell.

And I was wondering if anyone had some tips on using said super powers.


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## Drowzee64

I have a very weak version of that super power. These days I just Facebook confirm my crushes' sexualities and go to sleep severely disappointed because of the aforementioned FB revolution. I would recommend looking at peoples' online profiles before using the old-fashioned gaydar. People are a lot more open online, as everyone who's used the internet for more than two seconds knows. Try it, you'll save yourself at least a bit of frustration and confusion.


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## Nope

Good for you, Drowzee... I hope it'll only get better and better! :)

Also I think my crush might've found out I kind of like herrr....Tips: Don't chat with online friends on MSN about your crush when she's sitting right next to you and is prone to LEAN OVER VERY SUDDENLY AND LOOK.

Goddamnit, and this msn friend just had to mention her name at that exact moment... Argh, but it's all my fault.. I brought up the topic of her ;_;

But she didn't mention anything at all about it, although we didn't talk much. But I don't know her very well anyways sooo... and ff she confronts me about this I'm going to tell her she saw wrong and we were talking about this (imaginery) guy and my msn pal was joking around about me liking him... But of course I'll stammer and sweat and not look her in the eyes so she'll know I'm lying.

The worst part of it all? I DON'T KNOW IF SHE KNOWS AND IT'S KILLING ME

fuck i hate not knowing ;_;

On a happier note: all my friends now knows that I'm bi and they all accept me. :)

HAPPY BISEXUALITY CELEBRATION DAY, QUEERS <3


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## Zeph

_Ditto_ said:


> Does anyone here have Gay-dar?
> 
> I noticed that I kinda have an ability to pick out people who might be gay at our school, but since no one is out, it's impossible to tell.
> 
> And I was wondering if anyone had some tips on using said super powers.


Yeah, I do. It's been correct in the past! But also incorrect. Hmm. It's usually something in the eye, methinks.


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## ...

Pssh, I don't. I thought I did for a while, but then it turns out that my best friend, who I thought for the longest time was gay, turned out to be homophobic. Which is weird on so many levels...

The only occasion on which I was right was for this guy I had a crush on; I thought he was bi. And man, I am soo glad I was right, too. 

I have sort of a bad habit of thinking that any guy who I find attractive is gay, or bi at least. Because I've been told by people who know about my sexuality is that I have quite a vibe about me, and that if it's so detectable, then only guys who are gay or bi would only want to be around me because of this. I know I've been wrong about this since knowing my best friend is homophobic, so it all works out.

Off-topic: I was talking with said homophobic bff about my upcoming 17th birthday party, and told him that I was inviting my sole female crush along with my aforementioned male crush. Which he knows about. He laughed and said he was okay with it as long as I only kissed her and not him. 

I told him that I promised nothing. XD

Happy Bisexuality Celebration day!
I think we should all share stories. :o


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## Harlequin

"Gaydar" isn't a _thing_, but there's definitely evidence to suggest that gay men and women are distinct from heterosexual men and women. A bunch of research has shown that gay men have certain physical differences from straight men, ranging from finger length, penis length and girth, direction of whorls of hair, areas of difference in the brain and um bollocks I can't remember another one. 

That's _on average_, though -- you yourself might not exhibit these qualities. It used to be thought that gay men were just like women and gay women were just like men, but we're understanding that that simply isn't the case. It's been observed that homosexuals can be at the same time _more masculine_ and _more feminine_ than their heterosexual counterparts. 

It's kind of cool. I'll have to find the link again.


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## Minish

I don't have gaydar, but I do attract quite a lot of bisexual females, somehow. Three of my immediate best friends are bisexual and female, out of about four or five. My internet friends are overwhelmingly LGBT, and even my old best friend recently told me he was gay, which I had never ever expected. So, yeah. It no doubt has some correlation to us all being outcasts at school, since all of us have been bullied for being non-straight before. Odd.

On the topic of bisexual female friends, me and one of them are allllmost in a relationship. :P It will be my first ever relationship and she is awesome and I am very happy :'D

So yeah, expect me to be commenting on the school's reactions to this here. It wouldn't be a big thing, but, she's really popular and I'm universally reviled there, so I'm expecting entertainment. XD


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## Diz

Yes Harlequin, please do. That would be a very very interesting to read!

Cirrus, I'm glad that you would find a same sex relationship at your school involving you would be entertaining. I know if I showed up one day holding a guy's hand, we'd probably get lynched.


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## Harlequin

I'll have a look for it. It was p cool.

On the subject of same-sex relations(hips): HOPEFULLY this year will contain some gaying. 'Cause uh. I'm joining the LGBT group at the university.


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## Jolty

I don't have a gaydar lmao

ALSO GUYS
I've been at uni for a day now and being male 100% of the time IS AWESOME
a couple of people have been all "is that a boy or a girl" though but everyone I've spoken to properly hasn't been like that at all :B

gonna join the LGBT society at the fresher's fair in the week woop woop


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## Harlequin

yaaaaa man, awesome! um. people are still just assuming I'm straight. Like, last night there was this hot chick who was all FLIRT FLIRT FLIRT and I was just like "-.-" BUT  I shall join the LGBT society. Apparently it won awards last year. idek.


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## Zeph

...Would it be a particularly good idea if I tried to start up an LGBT club society community whatever at my school? I'm pretty sure that there, uh, isn't one as of yet, so I'm considering asking with teachers or whatever to see if I can get one going.


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## Diz

I think that that depends on how many people would join, and would support the club, and your community's level of tolerance. 

If a size able amount of people do support LGBT, go for it!


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## Zeph

I'm pretty sure the school's relatively tolerant - although to be honest I know three, maybe four openly LGBT people (not including myself) so unless there's a ton of people I don't know I guess it wouldn't exactly get a massive flood of people joining! I might look into it anyway though.


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## Music Dragon

I'm checking it so hot, so hot, wonder if he knows he's on my gaydar (on my gaydar), on my gaydar (on my gaydar)...


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## Dinru

I have no gaydar :I The only time I made the assumption that someone might be gay and was right was because of the fact that he wore a rainbow bracelet that says "Pride". The fact that he's more than a bit of a queen didn't hurt either, but there's a lot of allegedly straight queens in my area. So yeah.

Also! I've discovered that the teenagers in my general area are WAY more accepting of gay/bi people than the adults. Neither group is horribly trans-friendly, though :/


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## ...

Jeez, I'm living in the homophobia capital of the world.


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## Adriane

Ryubane said:


> Jeez, I'm living in the homophobia capital of the world.


That must mean you live a stone throw's away from me :|


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## ...

> That must mean you live a stone throw's away from me :|


Pshh, I doubt we're even that lucky in this case.


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## Diz

Ha! If you want the most conservative, ignorant, annoying, and backwards people to hang out with, come visit me.

Tip: They're Amish.


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## ...

_Ditto_ said:


> Ha! If you want the most conservative, ignorant, annoying, and backwards people to hang out with, come visit me.
> 
> Tip: They're Amish.


How are you still living?


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## Vladimir Putin's LJ

I think it's pretty surprising that considering I live in Belgium my school is so homophobic ?_? I mean we have a tiny bunch of out gay guys, there used to be this one gay couple and a lesbian one who also left. People talked about seeing them hold hands or kiss like it was the weirdest thing ever, it's completely bizarre to me, haha.

We even have two male teachers who are married to each other but they avoid any mention of the subject/homosexuality like the plague. It's not by never talking about it and treating it like the elephant in the room that we're ever going to get anywhere. :/


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## Jolty

Vladimir Putin's LJ said:


> We even have two male teachers who are married to each other


that's adorable omg
but being in a homophobic school sucks ;_;  


HEY I HAVE A QUESTION FOR ANY BISEXUALS/PEOPLE WHO LIKE MORE THAN ONE GENDER
d'you ever feel like you might be completely gay or completely straight sometimes
I keep getting the feeling that I might be panromantic homosexual (as much as I hate to use loads of labels)... goddamnit I really don't want to be anything other than bi/pan everything.
I still do get sexual attraction to women but... not NEARLY as much as with men.
Sorry if I sound like a twat :(


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## Dark Shocktail

Jolty said:


> HEY I HAVE A QUESTION FOR ANY BISEXUALS/PEOPLE WHO LIKE MORE THAN ONE GENDER
> d'you ever feel like you might be completely gay or completely straight sometimes
> I keep getting the feeling that I might be panromantic homosexual (as much as I hate to use loads of labels)... goddamnit I really don't want to be anything other than bi/pan everything.
> I still do get sexual attraction to women but... not NEARLY as much as with men.
> Sorry if I sound like a twat :(


I do. I don't think of women sexually often, not half as often as I think of men. *shrugs*


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## Minish

Jolty said:


> HEY I HAVE A QUESTION FOR ANY BISEXUALS/PEOPLE WHO LIKE MORE THAN ONE GENDER
> d'you ever feel like you might be completely gay or completely straight sometimes
> I keep getting the feeling that I might be panromantic homosexual (as much as I hate to use loads of labels)... goddamnit I really don't want to be anything other than bi/pan everything.
> I still do get sexual attraction to women but... not NEARLY as much as with men.
> Sorry if I sound like a twat :(


Not sure, I feel about the same amount of attraction for both men and women. Slightly more for women, maybe; I rarely find male celebrities genuinely attractive or anything.

I used to think I might be completely gay, but now it just sort of varies, I guess? Average day of the week, I'm probably feeling equal for both genders.


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## Dinru

Jolty said:


> that's adorable omg
> but being in a homophobic school sucks ;_;
> 
> 
> HEY I HAVE A QUESTION FOR ANY BISEXUALS/PEOPLE WHO LIKE MORE THAN ONE GENDER
> d'you ever feel like you might be completely gay or completely straight sometimes
> I keep getting the feeling that I might be panromantic homosexual (as much as I hate to use loads of labels)... goddamnit I really don't want to be anything other than bi/pan everything.
> I still do get sexual attraction to women but... not NEARLY as much as with men.
> Sorry if I sound like a twat :(


Well, I'm WAAAY more attracted to girls physically, but I've only ever had crushes on boys I think :/ But I've been pining after one and only one guy since before I was really sure in my identity so. I'd like to date a girl one day if me and my boyfriend don't quite work out. Or if he's open to me experimenting on the side, which I'm not sure he wouldn't be.

BUT ANYWAY YES, sometimes I'm not sure if I'm actually gay.


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## Diz

I'm attracted physically to guys only, pretty much, but I have romantic feelings for both genders. So I think that's a six on the Kinsey scale.

The worst part about living here is the stereotype that all gay males _want_ to be females, or all crossdress. And a few years ago there actually was a move-in open gay guy, who happened to perfectly fit the stereotype. And that has not helped.

Also the whole mentality "I'm okay with gay guys as long as they don't hit on me." Who the hell do you think you are? Some physical GOD that every guy would do immediately even though you can't get a chick? That gay people are all sexual predators?


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## Harlequin

men > women. you know it to be true. ;D


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## ultraviolet

Jolty said:
			
		

> d'you ever feel like you might be completely gay or completely straight sometimes
> I keep getting the feeling that I might be panromantic homosexual (as  much as I hate to use loads of labels)... goddamnit I really don't want  to be anything other than bi/pan everything.
> I still do get sexual attraction to women but... not NEARLY as much as with men.
> Sorry if I sound like a twat :(


yes, I feel this sometimes; now that I have a boyfriend, for example, I feel less attraction to women I guess? It's hard to explain. I think I generally am attracted to men more than I am women, except that there are specific women I know that I'm very attracted to.



			
				_Ditto_ said:
			
		

> Also the whole mentality "I'm okay with gay guys as long as they don't  hit on me." Who the hell do you think you are? Some physical GOD that  every guy would do immediately even though you can't get a chick? That  gay people are all sexual predators?


I agree, and it irritates me that many of these people wouldn't object to having heterosexual friends of the opposite sex for the same reason. If you're not attracted to someone, isn't it going to be just as uncomfortable if they hit on you regardless of their sexual orientation? I mean, if a gay person hits on you, at least you can fall back on 'sorry I don't swing that way' without making it ridiculously uncomfortable.


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## Zeph

Completely irrelevant to the current topic (But still (vaguely) related to LGBT stuff regardless!), but anyway!

I love my General Studies teacher! On our first lesson thereof, she was talking about how she used to work for Amnesty International and was once going round talking to people about gay rights and such. One man she came to apparently said something like "If it weren't illegal, I'd kill all homosexual people, they are scum raargh!" She then asked him if he had children, to which he replied "Five." She told us how utterly horrified she was that five innocent kids were going to have such awful views passed onto them. Made me smile in a weird way, since I've never actually heard a teacher talking about gay rights (Also the entire group looked similarly disgusted by this guy so I like them too).

And then today we got onto the topic of paedophilia and she gave possibly my favourite sexuality-related argument and said "It's something they can't change, they can't help being attracted to children" and people were all "Yeah but it's wrong to act on it" and she said "I don't condone sexually assaulting children, but think of it this way: If you're a straight guy and you were told you could never touch a woman ever again, how would you feel?" I don't know why but the fact she said "if you were a straight guy" rather than just, like, "If you were male" or something. Seriously I adore people who like actively recognise the existence of gay people, since most people I meet who find out I'm gay are kind of shocked in a way that gives off the idea that they'd never have considered they'd ever actually KNOW a gay person.

...Am I making any sense? I doubt it.


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## Vladimir Putin's LJ

Good on your teacher, Zeph! She sounds hella cool.
I've only rarely heard people talk about/acknowledge gay people in my school. I had an awesome English teacher who would just casually mention gay or trans people in passing (which is one of my favourite attitudes because it feels nice to see people just treat us normally) and my Biology teacher would always say 'a straight couple' whenever we talked about reproduction, haha. Then again she is more aware than others because her sister's husband divorced her to marry a guy :v and they're all coming to dinner at my house next month YEAAAAH

We're actually watching Brokeback Mountain in Advanced English and the same two guys keep making annoying groaning and mocking sounds whenever we mention the book. The teacher does NOTHING. I was the one who had to snap at them so they'd shut up, which I think is completely retarded.
But one of them is Latvian what can you expect. *elitist shrug*


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## ...

Jolty said:
			
		

> HEY I HAVE A QUESTION FOR ANY BISEXUALS/PEOPLE WHO LIKE MORE THAN ONE GENDER
> d'you ever feel like you might be completely gay or completely straight sometimes


Yepp, all the time. As far as I'm concerned with my romantic/sexual preferences, I'm dead-center on the Kinsey scale, right between purely straight and purely homosexual. So there can be some days where I'm feeling "Oh God, please make these dudes stop touching me" and there are some where I'm feeling 100% GAY MODE and you know. But in a neutral state, as I'm feeling right now as I type this, I feel dead-even between male and female. 

While I'm posting here...


			
				_Ditto_ said:
			
		

> Also the whole mentality "I'm okay with gay guys as long as they don't hit on me." Who the hell do you think you are? Some physical GOD that every guy would do immediately even though you can't get a chick? That gay people are all sexual predators?


YES.

Two of the four guys I've come out to have said that "as long as you don't come onto me" bit. I didn't say anything to them, but...yeah. You hit the nail right on the head, Ditto.


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## Diz

OH! This hits the nail on the head!

Our homecoming dance is this Friday, and on one of the posters for it, it says "No same sex couples," which on one hand really bugs me, because it would be like saying "No African Americans." But on the other, I know several guys at our school would all go together and just be mocking the whole concept which is also very insulting.

And I can't say anything about it without my sexuality coming into question and possibly outing myself to the entire school and my parents and ending my life.

EDIT: I was talking with a friend about this, and she mentioned that it was meant to stop friends going together on a cheaper couples ticket.


----------



## ...

_Ditto_ said:


> Our homecoming dance is this Friday, and on one of the posters for it, it says "No same sex couples," which on one hand really bugs me, because it would be like saying "No African Americans." But on the other, I know several guys at our school would all go together and just be mocking the whole concept which is also very insulting.
> 
> 
> 
> EDIT: I was talking with a friend about this, and she mentioned that it was meant to stop friends going together on a cheaper couples ticket.


This makes sense in context, but still, that is still discriminatory and it's sad that they even mentioned it explicitly, like that.


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## Zeph

_Ditto_ said:


> EDIT: I was talking with a friend about this, and she mentioned that it was meant to stop friends going together on a cheaper couples ticket.


Wait, so... Can't two people of opposite sex be friends? Surely they could get in cheap on a couples' ticket too? Frankly that entire concept seems illogical. Maybe you should ask about it.


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## Dannichu

Harlequin said:


> men > women. you know it to be true. ;D


gtfo D<

So! I signed up to my uni's newly-established feminist society and went to their first meeting on Monday (and dragged opal along because I could, hahaha), and we ended up being there for hours because it was excellent. During the course of conversation, I mentioned I wasn't straight and the girl opposite me (who co-runs the group) squealed like I'd just given her my firstborn and was basically going "Yay! We have a lesbian! We're a _proper_ feminist group now!"

It was pretty funny XD


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## Harlequin

It's true: it isn't a feminist group unless there's at least one lesbian. FIGHT THE GOOD FIGHT DANNI! LESBIANISE THOSE WOMEN LIKE IT'S THE SIXTIES AGAIN!!!!

I don't know if I want to join the LGBT society here in Cardiff. On the one hand it's a way to meet dudes, on the other it's slapping a massive FAG sign across my forehead. It's, like, stereotyping of me to say this, but I generally don't get on with gays. It's so bad because they just hate me instantly. I haven't quite said that I'm gay to any of my flatmates either, although I've not said I'm straight either. I should probably ... mention it or at least make it known in passing. OR SOMETHING damn my faggotry.

totally doesn't help that one of the guys I live with is really hot

[the girls in the flat next door call him 'eye candy'.]


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## Zeph

So today in Theatre Studies the teacher went away for like ten minutes and then this girl was talking about how desperately she wants to be surrogate for my (hypothetical) children and such. Someone overheard and was all "Oh, how many kids do you want?" and before I answered someone else said "Wait, are you gay?!" so I said "Yes! Yes I am!" and her face was like literally :O and then all eleven of us spent the next three minutes or so discussing my sexuality and my ex (who cheated on me with some girl and then proceeded to cheat on her immediately after he'd dropped me! Shocked them when I told them about that) and various other things. It was quite interesting and different to talk about it with such a large group of people, must say. And I was quite pleased that nobody was all sort of "OH MY GOD EW THAT'S AWFUL" or anything, or if they did think that they didn't say it~

Which reminds me, today in a free period one of my friends randomly said "Oh yeah by the way we found you a boyfriend! We don't know if he's gay, but he seems it!" My response was pretty much "...Uh?" since, uh, I do not know said person. Although I guess any opportunity should be desperately grasped, woe is me.


----------



## Ether's Bane

Joining as a bisexual.



Vixie said:


> That must mean you live a stone throw's away from me :|


You have it easy. Homosexuality is ILLEGAL here, meaning that if I came out to the wrong person, I could end up charged by law. So far, I've only come out to my brother.


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## Minish

Zephyrous Castform said:


> So today in Theatre Studies the teacher went away for like ten minutes and then this girl was talking about how desperately she wants to be surrogate for my (hypothetical) children and such. Someone overheard and was all "Oh, how many kids do you want?" and before I answered someone else said "Wait, are you gay?!" so I said "Yes! Yes I am!" and her face was like literally :O and then all eleven of us spent the next three minutes or so discussing my sexuality and my ex (who cheated on me with some girl and then proceeded to cheat on her immediately after he'd dropped me! Shocked them when I told them about that) and various other things. It was quite interesting and different to talk about it with such a large group of people, must say. And I was quite pleased that nobody was all sort of "OH MY GOD EW THAT'S AWFUL" or anything, or if they did think that they didn't say it~
> 
> Which reminds me, today in a free period one of my friends randomly said "Oh yeah by the way we found you a boyfriend! We don't know if he's gay, but he seems it!" My response was pretty much "...Uh?" since, uh, I do not know said person. Although I guess any opportunity should be desperately grasped, woe is me.


Oh my god, that genuinely sounds awesome. :') I actually love it when bemused people act so interested, usually I might take something like that as patronising, but I just can't help feeling very amused when it happens.

Although, it is kind of weird how people tend to try and set you up, like your friend is. I always overhear people going on about trying to get two gay people to sit next to eachother to see what would happen. Mrk. Although maybe that's just because the vast majority of my friends are bisexual, so I've not exactly been starved for LGBT friendships, haha.

Now that my girlfriend is beginning to come out to our school, things are... interesting. Most people are really happy for us, which makes me smile every time I think about it. I just remember when in year 8 and I came out, I was treated like an absolute freak - things have moved on so much. Although it probably helps that my girlfriend is a really popular person and wasn't a social outcast to begin with. XD


----------



## Harlequin

Am I a bad person for not joining the LGBT association at university solely because the booth was staffed by extremely stereotypical gays and lesbians? It just didn't seem like an environment I'd enjoy.


----------



## Jolty

Harlequin said:


> Am I a bad person for not joining the LGBT association at university solely because the booth was staffed by extremely stereotypical gays and lesbians? It just didn't seem like an environment I'd enjoy.


ours had 2 really stereotypical gay guys running it
but I'm gonna see how it goes anyway


----------



## Harlequin

Well, I mean, I'd join, but it's like... I won't enjoy it. I basically want to be friends with straight guys who like men. 

Basically.


----------



## Diz

I'd think it would be counter productive to have two stereotypically gay guys running the booth. It would just reinforce the idea that gay guys are all effeminate.


----------



## ...

_Ditto_ said:


> I'd think it would be counter productive to have two stereotypically gay guys running the booth. It would just reinforce the idea that gay guys are all effeminate.


Not to mention that effeminate men, even of the Camp Straight variety, are often considered to be just....ew by the non-LGBT part of society. So by having two stereotypical gays running the booth is not only reinforcing said stereotype, but turning away anyone who would be willing to support.


----------



## shy ♡

Personally I only like flamboyant gay guys. Straight-gay is creepy. I mean, ew, you like sports and have no fashion sense and other stereotypically straight stuff? Gross.


----------



## Adriane

Harlequin said:


> Am I a bad person for not joining the LGBT  association at university solely because the booth was staffed by  extremely stereotypical gays and lesbians? It just didn't seem like an  environment I'd enjoy.





_Ditto_ said:


> I'd think it would be counter productive to have  two stereotypically gay guys running the booth. It would just reinforce  the idea that gay guys are all effeminate.





Ryubane said:


> Not to mention that effeminate men, even of the Camp Straight  variety, are often considered to be just....ew by the non-LGBT part of  society. So by having two stereotypical gays running the booth is not  only reinforcing said stereotype, but turning away anyone who would be  willing to support.


By complaining about "stereotypical" effeminate gays, you are being no better than any other homophobic person. You are being judgemental against these persons because of the way they behave. And yet you expect people to not do the exact same thing to you? Way to be self-centred. They're actually, you know, _running the club_.


----------



## Diz

What? That's not what I'm trying to say at all!

I'm just saying that one of the goals of an LGBT society would be to educate everyone about how no stereotype is entirely true, and that especially holds true for homosexuals. However, by having two stereotypically gay men running the both, it's reinforcing the stereotype, being counterproductive to their goals.


----------



## ultraviolet

sure but I imagine not joining a lgbt club for that reason would be equally counter-productive, right? I mean not only are you letting that stereotype affect you, but then you're also devoiding the club of not-feminine gay men (if you are gay, anyway). 

but I mean. fair enough not joining if you don't think you'd like it. I think a lot of people assume that if you're not straight you _should _join an lgbt club, which is stupid.


----------



## Minish

_Ditto_ said:


> What? That's not what I'm trying to say at all!
> 
> I'm just saying that one of the goals of an LGBT society would be to educate everyone about how no stereotype is entirely true, and that especially holds true for homosexuals. However, by having two stereotypically gay men running the both, it's reinforcing the stereotype, being counterproductive to their goals.


That's disgusting. So what, we should discriminate against camp gays only now? "Sorry, we'd really prefer you not to run the booth; you see, you're just a stereotype, so you're not good enough in representing LGBT interests". What if they're the only people who volunteered or something?


----------



## nyuu

When you let stereotypes control your actions you're legitimizing them. Your club reps shouldn't need to be anything other than people that are into glbt peeps and straight peeps being bros.

The people who should run the club are the people most interested and most capable of running everything and drawing people in for discussion. How's that sound?


(So this old couple sat in front of me on the bus today. They were talking hushed+excitedly about going to a lady gaga show and I thought it was socute :3)


----------



## Harlequin

Vixie said:


> By complaining about "stereotypical" effeminate gays, you are being no better than any other homophobic person. You are being judgemental against these persons because of the way they behave. And yet you expect people to not do the exact same thing to you? Way to be self-centred. They're actually, you know, _running the club_.


Well, I mean, I don't care that they're stereotypical or effeminate. Do whatever the fuck you want, I actually don't give a shit. It's just that I didn't want to join it for gay friends, I wanted to join it for, like, sex: I'm simply not attracted to that sort of gay. I basically assumed (perhaps erroneously) that the club was filled with that kind of gay, so... um, yeah. But, like, when everyone assumes you're straight it's sometimes a bit difficult to actually empathise with stereotypical gays. Srsly.



ultraviolet said:


> sure but I imagine not joining a lgbt club for that reason would be equally counter-productive, right? I mean not only are you letting that stereotype affect you, but then you're also devoiding the club of not-feminine gay men (if you are gay, anyway).
> 
> but I mean. fair enough not joining if you don't think you'd like it. I think a lot of people assume that if you're not straight you _should _join an lgbt club, which is stupid.


Yeah, I mean, I basically didn't join for two reasons: 1) I really only sort of want to meet guys to have sex with them, 2) I'd like gay friends with similar interests. I've found that the hardcore stereotypical guys typically don't share my interests and I actually get along far better with straight men. It's just how it is. So, like, yeah. I'd join, but I don't think I'd enjoy it. Gay clubs aren't my thing.



Cirrus said:


> That's disgusting. So what, we should discriminate against camp gays only now? "Sorry, we'd really prefer you not to run the booth; you see, you're just a stereotype, so you're not good enough in representing LGBT interests". What if they're the only people who volunteered or something?


That's not what _I_ was saying. I basically meant "the stereotypical guys put me off joining because the implication was that that was the entire club". I don't really care what sort of gay you are, I just... well, I didn't want to join if it was _just_ that kind, and the booth sort of implied that. Plus when I walked past the fat Asian gay was all "OMG YOU'D BETTER BE GAY, PLEASE BE GAY YOU'RE HOT" and I was like "...ffs"



NWT said:


> When you let stereotypes control your actions you're legitimizing them. Your club reps shouldn't need to be anything other than people that are into glbt peeps and straight peeps being bros.
> 
> The people who should run the club are the people most interested and most capable of running everything and drawing people in for discussion. How's that sound?
> 
> 
> (So this old couple sat in front of me on the bus today. They were talking hushed+excitedly about going to a lady gaga show and I thought it was socute :3)


Well, the LGBT+ Association is technically just for gays and lesbians and bisexuals and maybe trans people, but they do mostly gay (male) events, and that's why I was interested. Why I eventually didn't join, though, was because it didn't seem like something I'd enjoy. It might be somewhat surprising, but when people meet me they actually assume I'm straight. It makes it sort of awkward. Like, really awkward. I'd rather be surrounded by other gays like that simply because that's what I _am_, and it's what I like, and really I sort of want to get laid sometime this year.

Um. Yeah.


----------



## Lorem Ipsum

:D can't believe I've never joined this

Hi, I'm Harry, and I'm a homosexual. Basically, I came out to my friends starting two Sundays ago, and I feel really really liberated because of it. And my favourite part of it was the funny Q&A sessions that lasted like an hour after I told them, mostly consisting of "do you find him attractive?" or "would you bang so and so?"

They've been really rather accepting - except for one person who hypocritically said "my attitude to you won't change", before decreeing that he was no longer going to change in the same room as me for PE, and was going to invite me to his birthday party before this, but now because I came out, he's "scared" of me and apparently afraid that I'll rape him or something.

But it feels oddly liberating to be able to remark "they're fit" when passing a group of hot guys skating, both out loud and internally. Oh and yeah this guy I really, really fancy also came out to me once I told him (as bi though)!


----------



## Nope

HAPPY COMING OUT DAY PEOPLE


----------



## ...

Bakun said:


> HAPPY COMING OUT DAY PEOPLE


OMG fo realz?


----------



## Harlequin

NCOD is ... today in the UK. I didn't bother with it.


----------



## Jolty

neither did I
everyone knows I'm bi, and I don't want people knowing I'm trans
hooray


----------



## Adriane

Today my band director showed me the concert program and asked if she had my name the way I wanted it ("Ms. Adriane Fox"). She also said I could wear a dress to concerts :> And if there were anything else she could do to help make me feel comfortable to let her know~


----------



## Clover

hellooo~ so uh. I wrote this? and um. :3 I would like to be admitted to your fine establishment.

well uh ._.7 I don't... I'm new at this... anything. I've always been an ally! for as long as I can remember. and like I mentioned I felt I was asexual for some time. but um... well, it's... someone asked recently why I thought I was lesbian, considering it wasn't one of those 'always been there' sort of things like I said. and I was like... I dunno! I can't explain it, like how I can't explain why my favorite color is orange and my favorite fruit is watermelon. it's just... there? I've only ever had... dreams about girls... although I do find some male actors cute? but I don't... like, have anyone thaaat would... uh, anyone, rn. my current situation makes that sort of thing tough.

I AM VERY CONFIDENT ABOUT ALL THIS as you can tell haha. Buuuut um. Yeah. My parents... yeah, considering what happened when it got out I was atheist... I wouldn't want to risk saying anything. The cloooosest thing I've come to saying anything or anything is a few months back with my best friend, when we were lying out under the stars talking about stuff... well, I don't remember context, but she was like "we're like smoker and hunter!" and I was like "yeah!! ... otp!" "what?" "huh?" "... :I" "... :x" "aaanyway." but she's like homoromantic asexual, soo.

UM. idk. go gays wooo o/~?


----------



## Harlequin

If it's any consolation I've thought you're a lesbian for a long time now! 

gays ftw


----------



## surskitty

Every once in a while I think ... maybe I should actually ... post ... but I'm never really sure what to say.

... I ... like girls?


----------



## ...

So the other day I was talking to one of my best female friends and I don't know how our conversation even got onto the topic, but she started asking questions, trying to find out if I was gay. I covertly texted one of my bisexual male friends asking if I should tell her and he said to go for it, and so I told her I was bi. 

And you know what?


_She's bi too._


_And has a hot boyfriend who is also bi._


----------



## shy ♡

Bingo for queer-on-queer hate.







I can't think of anything more sad, honestly. Because it's so true. :\


----------



## ...

Pentimento said:


> I can't think of anything more sad, honestly. *Because it's so true. :\*


wut


----------



## Diz

I believe Pentimento means that it's true that we fight amongst ourselves, and say things like that, not that the picture was true.


----------



## Lili

I will join due to the fact I support homosexuals and am attracted to both women and men myself.  But other than that, I'm kind of feeling like James right now.  I have no idea what else to say.


----------



## shy ♡

Ryubane said:


> wut





Diz said:


> I believe Pentimento means that it's true that we fight amongst ourselves, and say things like that, not that the picture was true.


Seriously how did you not get that. :| The picture is true in that it's a satire. So yes.


----------



## ...

Since when do we fight amongst ourselves though?


----------



## Dannichu

Is polyamory a queer issue? I mean, aside from it being a relationship-in-general issue. Huh.

It wasn't for the NCOD or anything, but I came out to one of my housemates the other day in possibly the least sensical way in recorded history. I can't even remember exactly what was said, but at some point I definitely mentioned that, if I were in a WWII concentration camp, I'd have the pink (and probably black and red) triangle sewn on me. I honestly have _no_ idea.

I think my other housemate thinks I'm sexually attracted to food. I'm not really sure how to best go about clearing that one up.


----------



## shy ♡

Ryubane said:


> Since when do we fight amongst ourselves though?


... Seriously? Read the bingo image for a clue?


----------



## Harlequin

I'M GAY, YOU'RE A FAGGOT

FAGGOT

YEAH

in other news I think I came out last night. Um. Okay.


----------



## ultraviolet

Harlequin said:
			
		

> in other news I think I came out last night. Um. Okay.


:O

how did it go?


----------



## Harlequin

ultraviolet said:


> :O
> 
> how did it go?


"really?"

"yes"

"oh"

See, my flatmates have like, a gay-scale. Basically they've rated the top five gayest people in our flat and my name wasn't actually on the list until, you know, they learnt that I actually like boys. Now I'm at the top. BUT.


----------



## Jolty

I saw that queer-on-queer hate thing on tumblr the other day
it's actually extremely true... I've gotten several of those lobbed at me before!!! and I have also /used/ one of them, as much as I don't like to admit. I've known people who actually do shove their sexuality/gender identity in everyone and anyone's face though :(

This guy I used to know, he went around telling pretty much everyone he was trans and it was ALL he ever talked about, saying stuff like "oh I'm gonna be getting hormones soon and next year I'm gonna have top surgery". Offline as well as online. Mostly offline in fact. It wasn't to make people aware of transgenders, it was because OH LOOK AT ME I AM SO COOL
He also claimed to be a different sexuality like practically every week too
And then one day, a while after he'd come out to his parents (who weren't supportive) and after he'd even had a freaking gender identity clinic appointment, he suddenly decides he's NOT trans. So I think he identifies as genderless now (with a bunch of other labels). I decided to confront him about WHY exactly he keeps yelling his orientation and gender identity to the world and he's like "GENDER AND SEXUAL ORIENTATION ARE FLUID, JEEZ"
yeah
because you can go from being gay (liking women according to him) to pansexual to asexual to whatever the fuck in a matter of a couple of weeks.
If you're still questioning or whatever, _shut the fuck up_ telling people shit like this 24/7.

AND HE WONDERS WHY PEOPLE THINK HE'S A WANKER


----------



## ultraviolet

I feel bad because I've hated other people for being bisexual because it makes me look bad; there's a girl I know who says she's bisexual all the time and she uses that to justify having sex with complete strangers at every party she goes to. :|


----------



## Harlequin

I don't feel that bad for disliking people who make me look bad. I understand that I shouldn't blame them, but it's still really, really annoying when everyone just assumes I'm heterosexual because the visible gays get all of the attention.

I want love, too ; ;


----------



## opaltiger

Dannichu said:


> It wasn't for the NCOD or anything, but I came out to one of my housemates the other day in possibly the least sensical way in recorded history. I can't even remember exactly what was said, but at some point I definitely mentioned that, if I were in a WWII concentration camp, I'd have the pink (and probably black and red) triangle sewn on me. I honestly have _no_ idea.
> 
> I think my other housemate thinks I'm sexually attracted to food. I'm not really sure how to best go about clearing that one up.


I'm sorry but this made me laugh _so much._ :D Which is which?


----------



## Harlequin

I thought lesbians didn't get pink triangles but got black ones instead? Then you'd get a black one for lesbianism and a red one for being a political prisoner.


----------



## Dannichu

...Will and I got really off-track playing Trivial Pursuit while answering some History questions, and Rachel makes orgasmically good carrot cake. _Uh_.

Well I figured that the pink triangle is a little better-known, and "I am secretly a black triangle" would be a little too subtle. Or something. Again - I have utterly no idea.

On a serious note, I think it's easy to get annoyed at people who 'feed stereotypes'; it's not them you should be angry at, though, it's the people who see a person who says "I'm bi" (or whatever) acting in a certian way and then thinks "So this is how bisexual people behave!". A straight guy can sleep around with as many women he wants, and while people might judge him as a person, nobody's going to go "Ah, that's how all heterosexuals behave!"

It basically all boils down to this on a bigger scale. When you're part of any minority, there will be people who judge everyone else who's a part of that minority by your actions.
(people could look at that comic/me and think "Lefties suck at math!" for example D:)


----------



## Clover

Harlequin said:


> If it's any consolation I've thought you're a lesbian for a long time now!
> 
> gays ftw


Um... what? :B what does that mean? why?



> I thought lesbians didn't get pink triangles but got black ones instead? Then you'd get a black one for lesbianism and a red one for being a political prisoner.


Also!



> The black triangle was a badge used in Nazi concentration camps to mark prisoners as "asocial" or "arbeitsscheu" (work-shy). It was later adopted as a lesbian or feminist symbol of pride and solidarity, on the assumption that the Nazis included lesbians in the "asocial" category.


And so.


----------



## Jolty

wow I would've been black triangle'd for sure lmao


----------



## Harlequin

MidnightSaboteur said:


> Um... what? :B what does that mean? why?
> 
> 
> 
> Also!
> 
> 
> 
> And so.


It's like how I thought Verne was trans before he actually said "I'm trans." IDK. I just. It's like. If anyone had asked me "Is Midnight a lesbian?" I would have said "probably"! IDK it's not a bad thing or anything (except in that, like, you like _girls_, ew).


----------



## octobr

Harlequin said:


> It's like how I thought Verne was trans before he actually said "I'm trans." IDK. I just. It's like. If anyone had asked me "Is Midnight a lesbian?" I would have said "probably"! IDK it's not a bad thing or anything (except in that, like, you like _girls_, ew).


Yeah no midnight you are the flamingest lesbian ever hello it's okay


----------



## opaltiger

Dannichu said:


> and Rachel makes orgasmically good carrot cake.


:ooo carrot cake


----------



## shy ♡

Dannichu I love you I think you're like my more social and person-liking braintwin. :[ Eurhg. (I also suck at maths. :[ :[ :[ )

Also uv your signature. Love. So much. <33

Okay back on subject... uh... what was the subject, carrot cakes? :v


----------



## ZimD

HOLY SHIT I'M SO EXCITED FOR SATURDAY

okay so i haven't been in this site in forever or this particular thread in even longer (even though i re-started it). but guess what's going to happen this saturday?

A local high school, not one that I go to but a very nearby one in the same district as mine, is going to be putting on a performance of "The Laramie Project" (a play about a kid who got murdered for being gay and the impact it had on society).

The Westboro Baptist Church themselves are going to show up and protest the performance. Myself and a few friends, as well as tons of other people, are going to show up and protest the protest, with gay rights signs/shirts/etc. I'm going to wear a marriage equality shirt I'm making in my graphic arts class. It's going to be fucking awesome, I'm hoping.

Will post pictures.


----------



## shy ♡

Zim Del Invasor said:


> HOLY SHIT I'M SO EXCITED FOR SATURDAY
> 
> okay so i haven't been in this site in forever or this particular thread in even longer (even though i re-started it). but guess what's going to happen this saturday?
> 
> A local high school, not one that I go to but a very nearby one in the same district as mine, is going to be putting on a performance of "The Laramie Project" (a play about a kid who got murdered for being gay and the impact it had on society).
> 
> The Westboro Baptist Church themselves are going to show up and protest the performance. Myself and a few friends, as well as tons of other people, are going to show up and protest the protest, with gay rights signs/shirts/etc. I'm going to wear a marriage equality shirt I'm making in my graphic arts class. It's going to be fucking awesome, I'm hoping.
> 
> Will post pictures.


Laramie Project is awesome. Iirc they dressed up as angels as a response to the protest? You should totally do that.


----------



## ultraviolet

Pentimento said:
			
		

> Also uv your signature. Love. So much. <33


:D!


----------



## Harlequin

Tonight I was going to do SO MUCH GAYING (like, srs gaying with actual men ;D) but Anna ruined it.

RUINED. ; ;


----------



## ZimD

Pentimento said:


> Laramie Project is awesome. Iirc they dressed up as angels as a response to the protest? You should totally do that.


i honestly never really knew it was until i just googled it. i had no idea it was about matthew shepherd even haha. i'd heard of it but wasn't sure what it was until, like. a few hours ago.

i'm probably just gonna wear a gay rights shirt that i'm making in my graphic arts class anyway, i know one of my friends said he's going to wear a purple bodysuit and bring a "HAIL XENU" sign, and i legit have no idea whether he was sarcastic or not. it'll be fun whatever ends up happening


----------



## shy ♡

ultraviolet said:


> :D!


It's astounding... time is fleeting...



Zim Del Invasor said:


> i honestly never really knew it was until i just googled it. i had no idea it was about matthew shepherd even haha. i'd heard of it but wasn't sure what it was until, like. a few hours ago.
> 
> i'm probably just gonna wear a gay rights shirt that i'm making in my graphic arts class anyway, i know one of my friends said he's going to wear a purple bodysuit and bring a "HAIL XENU" sign, and i legit have no idea whether he was sarcastic or not. it'll be fun whatever ends up happening


Mannn you should totally watch it. I think I saw it on youtubes. Go look for it. It's hella awesome and made me tear up (okay I cried a bit shush.)


----------



## Vladimir Putin's LJ

Must check out Laramie Project.

Also something I never thought would happen happened: I found another FtM in this school. And it was an accident, haha. I gave them my comic link and they connected the dots when they saw how I express myself online.
Still, when you hear 'So, um, are you transitioning? I thought I was the only at school who...' out of nowhere it's pretty astounding, haha. They pass super well though.

Using gender-neutral pronouns because I don't know what their current preferred pronoun use is.


----------



## shy ♡

BIG DAY FOR ME. I just uh, came out to someone, first time ever, and it was mostly an accident. :| Well, sort of the second time - the 'first' time was just me telling a person I'm not straight, but that was it, and most people irl already know that anyhow, or at least assume it (though I think they assume I'm gay). And since I don't think they even know about asexuality they probably didn't get it. Buuut. Not the point.

So I was uh, at my voice lesson, and we were working on Kiss From A Rose, which I (absurdly) never realized was a love song. Yeahhh. So then she mentions I should sing it softer and less angry (ahaha...) and I'm like, but that's what's fun about the song. Continues to me saying that love is bleh and she's like :O! and I'm like ... :[ and she's wondering if this is a bad past experience, no, have I never seen a guy/girl (made sure to ask both) on the street and thought 'oh they're cute', no, don't I want someone to be with me forever and support me, sure that's what friends are for. 

Well, it wasn't _that_ bad, definitely super-awkward, but in the end she didn't feel like continuing with the song, ahaha. She did suggest I get checked out to find why I'm like this because it clearly isn't the norm. (I responded that neither is homosexuality, and she quickly asserted that there's nothing _wrong_ with homosexuals, I didn't respond because duh, so she pried for an answer... she kinda missed the point :[). I think she concluded I was just very cynical.

This is why I avoid coming out. :| Ahg. So awkward.


----------



## ZimD

Zim Del Invasor said:


> SATURDAY, LARAMIE, WESTBORO BAPTIST CHURCH, ETC


Westboro Baptist Church were bullshitting and didn't show up. Didn't want to spend the incredibly small amount of money I have on a play I can probably torrent somewhere anyway.

So, basically, Saturday was no different than any other day whatsoever at all.


----------



## Jolty

Today I told the one friend I have made here that I'm transgendered

he was like "well to me, my friends' genders are irrelevant, so I don't think anything different of you at all :D"

I've known him for three weeks
my friends who knew me for years flipped out when I _hinted_ that I would prefer to be male


----------



## Flora

*awkwardly walks in* Oh, hi.

Uh, I'm Flora, I'm bisexual, and I really need to realize that if I have to ask myself whether I like someone, then the answer is an obvious yes.

Okay, to be honest I sorta knew end of freshman year, but then was like "wait...no I'm straight," then got confused, then got _really_ confused, then figured out sometime last year "oh wait yeah I'm bi."

But then again, I'm absolutely oblivious to love (or apparently crushes).

Also, would my friends either come out or _please_ stop joking about being lesbians/bi? It's incredibly frustrating because _I don't know whether or not they're serious._ And, of course, the two that joke about it are the ones that I have crushes on. :/


----------



## Ether's Bane

I'm coming out to my mum on Sunday - this will be the biggest thing I've ever done. I'll tell you guys how it went when I've done it (hopefully in the Laughing Cupboard).


----------



## Leaftail

(Dang I haven't posted here in months.)

When I eat lunch with my 'friends,' they use the... you know... f-word-for-gay-people on a minutely basis (and I'm not kidding), and that's obviously offensive. I haven't said anything about it yet, nor have I come out to them yet. But the next time anyone says it, I'll ask them to stop. Odds are they're going to correctly assume I'm gay. And I don't think they're the kind of people who would respect my sexuality. 

I'm planning on coming out to another friend via facebook in the next few days (probably on my birthday)... let's hope he doesn't have a negative reaction to it.


----------



## Harlequin

Whenever someone I know says something a bit thick about gay people I just look at them flatly, especially if it involves stereotypes, and they usually just look a bit awkward and apologise. That only works because people actually know I'm gay, though, and because I'm _not_ a stereotype... regardless, all of my flatmates are fine with it anyway.


----------



## Zeph

Actually I can't say I see (hear?) that sort of stuff happening a lot. And since pretty much everyone's aware of my, erm, sexuality, I think they kind of might avoid saying that sort of thing? Or if they do, they will glance at me and say "No offence" which doesn't, y'know, really make it any better. In fact now I think about it, I vaguely recall making several people in the past aware that I'm gay through being displeased at anti-gay things they've said. Like, uh, I don't know.
"Gay marriage should be illegal."
"...Oh, I guess I'll just have to pretend I'm married then :C"
"...REALLY?!"
"Yes."
"NO, REALLY?"
"Yes!"
"Uh, sorry..."
"Yes."


----------



## ultraviolet

I met a gay gentleman at work today who was complaining about australia's lack of gay marriage to another customer and I was all like 'yeah! I agree' and we talked about it for a whole five minutes. :>


----------



## ...

Ryubane said:


> So the other day I was talking to one of my best female friends and I don't know how our conversation even got onto the topic, but she started asking questions, trying to find out if I was gay. I covertly texted one of my bisexual male friends asking if I should tell her and he said to go for it, and so I told her I was bi.
> 
> And you know what?
> 
> 
> _She's bi too._
> 
> 
> _And has a hot boyfriend who is also bi._


Remember this? Yeah. It was a great day.

Just this past Saturday, she and I were talking about how in terms of straight-ness, I'm a complete and total virgin, never even kissed a girl. She suggested we just clear up that last statement right then, but I, being _very_ apprehensive about being with a girl (Because I started out as completely asexual and jumped right to bi) didn't want to get in the way of her currently existing relationship. She said and I quote: "You won't be getting in the way. My boyfriend wants some _guy time_ so it's okay if you kiss me too." And we talked about her boyfriend awhile (She suggested we have a threesome which I find weird on soo many levels) and then we jumped right back to the virgin thing. And just as we were about to kiss...

My sister and her boyfriend came over and completely ruined it. 

And they followed us everywhere. 

We couldn't even text a decent LGBT conversation without having one of them look over and shout "WHO YA TEXTIN".

tl;dr, I'm a little upset but also a little amused at the fact that even during the ONE TIME I get a chance at straight activity to set my record straight (literally), it gets ruined by family. 

EDIT: Completely unrelated event but I think it's funny as hell; the girl I actually do have a crush on is having some problems with an on-and-off boyfriend about him wanting sex but she's Catholic and can't/won't allow it. So she asked me for help.

That's right; she asked the single, virginal, bisexual guy about a straight relationship problem involving sex.


----------



## Lorem Ipsum

had a random influx of people I don't particularly know come up to me and say "I've heard rumours that you're gay" today, and deciding, "what the hey", told them the truth. and they were all OK with it - even somebody who I absolutely wouldn't have expected to have been (bless him he said "but you don't _act_ gay")

I officially <3 the modern day


----------



## Dannichu

This story is equal parts sad and awesome.

Call me cynical (I'm usually not, but I think I sort-of am in relation to this), I'll like the modern day when you can be gay without being bombarded with questions about it, or having to 'confirm rumours' or things. Nobody has ever been asked "So when did you realise you were heterosexual? What did your parents say?" and so on. That it's no longer (broadly speaking) seen as a bad thing is wonderful, I agree, but what I really love is for it to not be a big deal.


----------



## shy ♡

Dannichu said:


> This story is equal parts sad and awesome.
> 
> Call me cynical (I'm usually not, but I think I sort-of am in relation to this), I'll like the modern day when you can be gay without being bombarded with questions about it, or having to 'confirm rumours' or things. Nobody has ever been asked "So when did you realise you were heterosexual? What did your parents say?" and so on. That it's no longer (broadly speaking) seen as a bad thing is wonderful, I agree, but what I really love is for it to not be a big deal.


Oh, god, I don't even know what to say. I sorta teared up. :[ Mostly because a similar thing happened with my brother, this week; he 'crossdressed' for halloween, which obviously as jews my family doesn't celebrate, and following the reactions of my other brother, quickly took the costume off. My other brother and my dad were pretty damned negative about it, both about the fact he dressed up and what he chose to dress as. :\ Sigh...


----------



## Koori Renchuu

I am late for this party.  Not even fashionably late just *late*.

I am bisexual with more of an interest in men.  Came out to the world on facebook, may as well broadcast it.  I also don't really act all that gay and many people are surprised after hearing it.  I had a feeling in the first grade that I was different.  I liked watching wrestling and it excited me so much that I started, you know...

Well, I hereby join the club.


----------



## ...

Glad to have you around, Koori.


----------



## Dinru

Tsk tsk DeviantART. And I used to love you.

For the linkphobic, not long ago DeviantART took away the option to specify your gender as "undefined". If you selected a binary gender and chose to hide it, it would still show gendered pronouns in a few places. Also, the reason they took away that option was so that they could use "gender targeted marketing". You know, makeup and clothes for females, steaks and ties for males. 

Needless to say, someone complained, however...



> For those of you who don't know, I identify as neutrois -- neither male nor female. I've been in the closet about it for several years for various reasons... mainly, the fear that saying "I don't have a gender" was a way of exercising cis privilege. Lately, though, I've gotten tired of not talking about it and pretending that I consider myself female. So this is it: I'm not.
> 
> What's the relevance of this? I deleted my old account at deviantART because I was tired of the username and embarrassed about the old crappy art I'd posted years ago. Starting over with a new account sounded pretty good. But when I went to edit my profile settings on my new account, well...
> 
> I was pretty confused at how there were only options for "Male" and "Female" in their gender dropdown box. I distinctly remembered there being some third option, which I had chosen for my previous account. A brief Google search later, I found that as of May, the "Unspecified" option had been removed. I'm sure this sounds familiar to those of you who witnessed LJ's gender fail several months ago; however, unlike Livejournal, deviantART has not backtracked on this. Despite (or maybe in spite of) the numerous user complaints, dA has not offered an explanation of any sort.
> 
> I had to wonder why, so I asked in a support request. Maybe they just hadn't considered that non-binary people used their site? Or, well, existed. It wouldn't be the first time. I got a response from a user named realitysquared, aka Daniel Sowers Jr., the site's Copyright & Etiquette Administration manager:
> 
> 
> 
> Thank you for contacting deviantART, I will be assisting you with your support ticket.
> 
> A relatively recent redesign of our profile setting page now requires that you designate yourself as being male or female.
> 
> If you do not wish to designate your gender and prefer to deactivate your account due to being forced to make this choice then you may do so if you choose.
> 
> 
> 
> Missing the point much? It's not that I do not wish to designate my gender, but that I am unable to with their current setup. I replied letting him know as much:
> 
> 
> 
> It's not that I "do not wish" to designate my gender. I wouldn't mind doing so, actually! But I can't with the options you offer. I am not male and I am not female. Therefore, I CANNOT designate my gender. It's as though you offered a box for users to designate their race and only listed white and black. You missed the entire point of my support request.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Surely that would get through to him, right? I mean, maybe that would help explain my position. Surely he'd just misunderstood. Right?
> 
> Well... apparently not. Mr. Sowers replied thusly:
> 
> 
> 
> My apologies but there are only two sexes; male and female so one should apply to you. In the unusual case that you are hermaphrodite then I would suggest that you select the one which you feel applies the best.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I don't think I should have to explain what's wrong here. First of all, despite being in such a position of authority, Mr. Sowers had no grasp of proper comma usage. And second, well, there's that lie about there only being two sexes (though I wasn't actually talking about sex to begin with, but gender). Finally, do people really still use the word "hermaphrodite"? It's one thing if an intersexed person wants to identify that way on their own (I'm not, so it's not up to me to say they can't), but binary folks really don't have that right.
> 
> In the meantime, I'd found that their profile setting to "not display" the chosen gender doesn't actually work, so I left one last angry reply:
> 
> 
> 
> There are not only two sexes, and neither of them applies to me. That is extremely hateful and bigoted of you to say. Why is this website called deviantArt if you only want people who fit into neat little boxes, and why are you celebrating Spirit Day if you refuse to acknowledge the existence of intersexed (the word isn't 'hermaphrodite', thanks), genderqueer, neutrois, and other non-binary users?
> 
> I'd also like to point out that your setting to "not display" a user's chosen gender does not work. http://split-complex.deviantart.com/stats/gallery/ I have "male" chosen right now and this page refers to me with the he/him set of pronouns.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Yes. This happened on Spirit Day, of all days! At first I was baffled, but then I realized why: deviantART doesn't actually give a damn about the queer community or those kids who had killed themselves. They were just jumping on a convenient bandwagon to make themselves look all awesome and progressive.
> 
> After that, my support request was closed without further comment; attempting to re-open it did no good. By that point, I was thoroughly disgusted and tired of arguing, so I let it lie for a few days. After a while, though, I got angry again. This wasn't acceptable, and I wasn't going to stand for it. I opened three new support requests on three separate issues.
> 
> 
> 
> Request #110960: Question about site name
> 
> Hi, I'm just wondering why this website is called deviantArt when you don't welcome users unless they fit into the tiny, narrowly-defined boxes of either male or female. In fact, devArt used to be open to people of all genders, but as of earlier this year you've forbidden non-binary people from registering accounts, and I was just wondering why that is.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> ↑ This was my attempt to find out why they had made their discriminatory policy change and understand their reasoning behind it, which had not actually been explained to me.
> 
> 
> 
> Request #110955: Chosen gender isn't hidden even though I set it to be
> 
> Hi. In my settings, I set my chosen gender to be hidden. However, the page at http://split-complex.deviantart.com/stats/gallery/ uses either the he/his or she/her set of pronouns, varying with which gender I've chosen. That's not "hidden".
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> ↑ This was an attempt to at least get the problem about the stats page that I'd noticed resolved. And finally...
> 
> 
> 
> Request #110959: Abuse report: User realitysquared
> 
> In my previous support request at http://support.deviantart.com/requests/102727 a staff member with the username realitysquared basically mansplained to me that "there are only two sexes", which is a lie, and off-handedly wondered if I was a "hermaphrodite", which is actually a very offensive word when applied to humans. I'd appreciate if some action could be taken about this.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> ↑ Having been insulted to my face by deviantART's "Copyright & Etiquette Administration Manager", I thought this warranted an abuse report. So here we go.
> 
> As of today, the bug report has not been replied to. So let's just ignore that one.
> 
> My question about why the site is called deviantART was replied to by a user named Stykera, as follows:
> 
> 
> 
> Hello,
> 
> Thank you for contacting deviantART. I'm sorry but you are mistaken: we do not forbid anyone from registering on the site due to their sexuality.
> If you need any further assistance, please do not hesitate to contact us.
> 
> Kind regards,
> 
> Chris Price
> Customer Service Representative
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Talk about missing the point, right? I replied,
> 
> 
> 
> I'm sorry, but you've misunderstood my question. I didn't say anything about sexuality; I was talking about gender and how you only have options for "Male" and "Female" on the profile page.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Stykera's answer:
> 
> 
> 
> Hi,
> 
> I see you have previously discussed this same matter with us. To rephrase:
> 
> A relatively recent redesign of our profile setting page now requires that you designate yourself as being male or female.
> 
> If you do not wish to designate your gender and prefer to deactivate your account due to being forced to make this choice then you may do so if you choose.
> 
> Kind regards,
> 
> Chris Price
> Customer Service Representative
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Kind regards. L O L, am I right? She "saw" that I had previously discussed the matter with them, and then repeated the same bullshit answer I'd gotten before! I replied,
> 
> 
> 
> You have not answered my question: Why is your site called deviantART if you do not welcome deviants?
> 
> Furthermore, I do wish to designate my gender, but am unable to do so as my gender is not listed in your drop-down box. Please don't patronize me.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You'd think this would be a simple matter. But, no. After that, the request was closed without comment. I re-opened it three times asking for a response before Stykera replied,
> 
> 
> 
> Please, you have already had this issue addressed by at least two admins. There will be no further discussion here, and the ticket will be marked solved.
> 
> Kind regards,
> 
> Chris Price
> Customer Service Representative
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> So that was that, and that was why I decided to go ahead and make this post. If they won't discuss it, the least I can do is let other people know that the site is being run in a bigoted manner. Am I right?
> 
> And finally, about the matter of my abuse report... A user called y2jenn replied.
> 
> 
> 
> Dear deviant,
> We are, of course, very sorry if you feel you were mistreated in any way during your last support inquiry. That wasn't our intention. deviantART's gender choosing system is limited to the general "male or female" choices by design. We completely understand that you may not feel at home classified as either gender. But we require that all deviants choose one or the other in order to complete the registration. You are, of course, more than welcome to hide the chosen gender from public view. Please don't hesitate to let us know if you need any further assistance with this or with anything else in the future.
> 
> ☼ Jenn Lee
> Support Desk Representative
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Bullshit. Ms. Lee had decided to make it all about their ~intent~ and about their gender drop-down box (which I'd specifically opened a separate request about), ignoring the bigoted language that Mr. Sowers had used toward me. Naturally, I replied:
> 
> 
> 
> "We are, of course, very sorry if you feel you were mistreated in any way during your last support inquiry. That wasn't our intention." Intent does not matter. Realitysquared point-blank told me to my face that my gender does not exist, and now you're trying to tell me the same thing with nicer language. So far I have not received an actual answer as to why you want to throw non-binary users under the bus.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> "deviantART's gender choosing system is limited to the general "male or female" choices by design." So it's a feature, not a bug. =|
> 
> "But we require that all deviants choose one or the other"... isn't that a bit self-contradictory? How can you justify that? This was one of the few websites that didn't force such a choice, and then you took it away. Is that supposed to be progress? It look more like regression to me. This is 2010, not 1900.
> 
> "You are, of course, more than welcome to hide the chosen gender from public view." As a matter of fact, it's not completely hidden, but I've already filed a separate bug report about that.
> 
> "Please don't hesitate to let us know if you need any further assistance with this or with anything else in the future." If you seriously think this is a solution to my problem, I have to wonder how it is you made it to the position of Support Desk Representative. You also did not address realitysquared's offensive language -- "There are only two sexes" (which is a lie) and the usage of the word "hermaphrodite".
> 
> I would appreciate if you didn't mark this as solved until I agree that it is.
> 
> Can you guess what happened next? If you guessed "She completely ignored the complaint about realitysquared and made it about the gender options", you guessed right!
> 
> 
> 
> I'm sorry, but you'll need to pick one of the genders available that best suits your needs. I do see your other ticket and it will be picked up by our bug department for review. Thank you.
> 
> ☼ Jenn Lee
> Support Desk Representative
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> So, I'm done arguing with deviantART. Instead, I'm bringing the issue to the wider Internet community. Everyone has a right to know about this issue; I do think we deserve an answer from them about why they did something so stupid and discriminatory, but I doubt we're ever going to get one. (My bet? I think they did it to better focus their advertisements. Yay, sexist ad targeting! Don't you love it? I know I do!)
Click to expand...

(They DID fix it, but that doesn't excuse how they acted.)


----------



## ...

DeviantArt has had quite a notorious history of being discriminatory, if not outright unaccepting of LGBT people.


----------



## shy ♡

Dinru said:


> Tsk tsk DeviantART. And I used to love you.
> 
> For the linkphobic, not long ago DeviantART took away the option to specify your gender as "undefined". If you selected a binary gender and chose to hide it, it would still show gendered pronouns in a few places. Also, the reason they took away that option was so that they could use "gender targeted marketing". You know, makeup and clothes for females, steaks and ties for males.
> 
> Needless to say, someone complained, however...
> 
> 
> (They DID fix it, but that doesn't excuse how they acted.)


They've fixed it? Eh. Whatever, I barely used the site - so. :\ I wish Eevee would get his art site started *nudge*. Could really use a good one.


----------



## shy ♡

Sorry for the double post but this is relevant.

# I am guaranteed to find people of my sexual orientation represented in the Earlham curriculum, faculty, and administration.

I find this to be particularly true and hurtful; the fact that movies/shows are classed as 'gay' movies (not using the slang where gay means 'stupid' but where the movie has gay characters so it's automatically a queer movie) is just... evidence of how backwards we are. There aren't 'straight' movies. Wtf?


----------



## baiyune

# I can count on finding a therapist or doctor willing and able to talk about my sexuality.
Ugh. My mum took me to a psychologist ... last year, sometime, for something unrelated. I mentioned being gay to her and she just went ":/ oh. Have you always been that way?" and then quickly changed the subject. At least she didn't try and find some underlying reason for it, I suppose.

Right, uh, hi all. I'm queer/here/etc. Lesbian to be exact. Out to my close family and friends, unsubtle about it to everyone else. Hope you all don't mind me joining.


----------



## ...

Of course we don't mind you joining. We've had a shortage of new lesbians around here as of late.


----------



## surskitty

How do you figure?


----------



## ...

About all we've had join these past few weeks is a couple of bi males. We've had a couple of active bi or les girls but they've had membership for a while now. Now we have someone new, so hey. Party.


----------



## Flora

Ryubane said:


> About all we've had join these past few weeks is a couple of bi males. We've had a couple of active bi or les girls but they've had membership for a while now. Now we have someone new, so hey. Party.


*points to her gender* Gee, thanks :(

though in all honesty, my romantic troubles have less to do with liking someone than being kinda happy the person she likes liking her back while being kinda sad cause...well, I like her. Goddamn ambivalence.

See, that's the problem with crushing on your friends *sighs*


----------



## Diz

Flora would like to say hi from 18 posts ago.


----------



## Flora

Diz said:


> Flora would like to say hi from 18 posts ago.


Flora would also like to figure out why the forum keeps eating the first post on a new page.


----------



## Eloi

> About all we've had join these past few weeks is a couple of bi males. We've had a couple of active bi or les girls but they've had membership for a while now. Now we have someone new, so hey. Party.


Hi, I wanted to to get a party too, so I just impulsively decided to join. I guess I'm bisexual, tho' I think pansexual might be more accurate.


----------



## Diz

Flora said:


> Flora would also like to figure out why the forum keeps eating the first post on a new page.


I know! My CP said that you had new posts here all day and I'm all AUGHT WHY CAN'T I SEE IT BLADLJa;f

I learned a new term the other day, 'bigender,' and could totally see myself being that since I'm like two different people sometimes. Because my gaiety flops around like a light switch.


----------



## Jolty

Diz said:


> I learned a new term the other day, 'bigender,' and could totally see myself being that since I'm like two different people sometimes. Because my gaiety flops around like a light switch.


I keep wondering if I'm bigender recently 
but being female in "the real world" still makes me want to die so... I dunno maybe I'm getting having more than one gender confused with feeling feminine once in a while

I don't really want to be anything other than a guy though
...who apparently feels like a woman sometimes?


----------



## ...

Flora said:


> *points to her gender* Gee, thanks :(
> 
> though in all honesty, my romantic troubles have less to do with liking someone than being kinda happy the person she likes liking her back while being kinda sad cause...well, I like her. Goddamn ambivalence.
> 
> See, that's the problem with crushing on your friends *sighs*


You joined over two weeks ago. The post is stale. :/


----------



## Harlequin

I'M ACTUALLY SAYING SOMETHING RELEVANT TO THE THREAD!!!!

So like you know that straight list dealio up there? Well today I was doing a cell biology test (it was wank) and the PhD student giving it to us was like, hot. It was annoying because it's like, if I were straight I could reasonably expect to have a chance at sex or a relationship or whatever with an attractive straight woman, but since I'm a man it's all like ":|"

BASICALLY I'm butt-hurt because I can't just assume all guys are into me. bawwww [is a serious problem. i vote that we all wear pink triangles]


----------



## Lorem Ipsum

eugh I feel exactly the same. feels bad man


----------



## ...

Harlequin said:


> I'M ACTUALLY SAYING SOMETHING RELEVANT TO THE THREAD!!!!
> 
> So like you know that straight list dealio up there? Well today I was doing a cell biology test (it was wank) and the PhD student giving it to us was like, hot. It was annoying because it's like, if I were straight I could reasonably expect to have a chance at sex or a relationship or whatever with an attractive straight woman, but since I'm a man it's all like ":|"
> 
> BASICALLY I'm butt-hurt because I can't just assume all guys are into me. bawwww [is a serious problem. i vote that we all wear pink triangles]


I feel the same way, especially about those last two sentences. It may just be a self-esteem issue, but it's more or less the feeling that guys only want to hang out with me because of my bisexuality and that they're into me. So when they don't want to hang out...


----------



## Koori Renchuu

I seem to attract fat gay guys that want me as a sexual trophy, not as a partner.  Why is it that some gay guys want to pop my cherry before I'm ready?


----------



## Leaftail

Apparently some people at school knew that I said in my Facebook profile I was interested in guys for a while now. Today, one of my friends decided to tell me about it and (like everyone else) jumped to the conclusion that my brother hacked into my account and changed my sexuality for sh**s and giggles and/or to get revenge on me for something. So when I told them I really _was_ gay, they... really didn't care. And I was afraid to tell them all these months because I thought they wouldn't want to be friends with me anymore! 

Well, now all my friends know (which merits a smiley). :D


----------



## Flora

Ryubane said:


> You joined over two weeks ago. The post is stale. :/





			
				Ryubane said:
			
		

> About all we've had join these past few weeks is a couple of bi males. We've had a couple of active bi or les girls but they've had membership for a while now.


Your point. It has no merit.


----------



## ...

Flower Doll said:


> Your point. It has no merit.


Since when did everyone decide to make my original statement of a shortage of lesbians a big deal?


----------



## Tailsy

Ryubane said:


> Since when did everyone decide to make my original statement of a shortage of lesbians a big deal?


They're... not?

(You're just _oppressed_ by the vagina.)

Relatedly, I'm bi-curious, but that doesn't especially count because expressing a desire to know what it's like having sex with a girl is apparently grounds to be called a ho. IDK.


----------



## ...

Tailsy said:


> They're... not?
> 
> (You're just _oppressed_ by the vagina.)


I must be. :/

EDIT cuz Tailsy snuck an edit in there as I was posting:
People say that about me all the time about expressing a male sexual interest. It's hardly different from a guy wanting to experiment with a girl the same way.


----------



## Jolty

TAILSY WELCOME TO THE BEST THREAD


somewhat relevant: I just assume nobody ever is into me because it's true!! I'm a ninja so nobody irl really knows me
Many girls on the tinternets have liked me though and I cannot even remember the last time a guy liked me. Guys NEVER like me :'(


----------



## Dannichu

Harlequin said:


> I'M ACTUALLY SAYING SOMETHING RELEVANT TO THE THREAD!!!!
> 
> So like you know that straight list dealio up there? Well today I was doing a cell biology test (it was wank) and the PhD student giving it to us was like, hot. It was annoying because it's like, if I were straight I could reasonably expect to have a chance at sex or a relationship or whatever with an attractive straight woman, but since I'm a man it's all like ":|"
> 
> BASICALLY I'm butt-hurt because I can't just assume all guys are into me. bawwww [is a serious problem. i vote that we all wear pink triangles]


Oh christ, I have the same thing. And it's not just with people I'm attracted to - every so often I'll be around someone (male or female) I am _sure_ is gay and I'll feel like we have a ~special gay bond~ and then suddenly one day they mention their opposite-sex partner or whatever in passing and I feel utterly crushed and betrayed and they have absolutely no idea and I'm inwardly wailing "but how _could_ you, random guy in my cultures of embodiment class? ;;"

But my inability to identify gay people coupled with the fact that basically nobody is gay (or if they are, they're men) really sucks. I am apparently the only lesbian in the uni's feminist society, which has like 30 women in. Whoever said that every stereotype is based in truth lied so hard.


----------



## ...

Dannichu said:


> Oh christ, I have the same thing. And it's not just with people I'm attracted to - every so often I'll be around someone (male or female) I am _sure_ is gay and I'll feel like we have a ~special gay bond~ and then suddenly one day they mention their opposite-sex partner or whatever in passing and I feel utterly crushed and betrayed and they have absolutely no idea and I'm inwardly wailing "but how _could_ you, random guy in my cultures of embodiment class? ;;"


This is how I spent most of my summer.


----------



## Harlequin

Dannichu said:


> Oh christ, I have the same thing. And it's not just with people I'm attracted to - every so often I'll be around someone (male or female) I am _sure_ is gay and I'll feel like we have a ~special gay bond~ and then suddenly one day they mention their opposite-sex partner or whatever in passing and I feel utterly crushed and betrayed and they have absolutely no idea and I'm inwardly wailing "but how _could_ you, random guy in my cultures of embodiment class? ;;"
> 
> But my inability to identify gay people coupled with the fact that basically nobody is gay (or if they are, they're men) really sucks. I am apparently the only lesbian in the uni's feminist society, which has like 30 women in. Whoever said that every stereotype is based in truth lied so hard.


; ; omg yes I know exactly what you mean

(except it hurts more when you want to fuck his brains outestablish a meaningful long term emotional relationship)

Interestingly, the Harry Potter Society has a lot of lesbians (and bisexual girls). 

OH speaking of societies I eventually joined the LGBT+ Association (yeah its name is kind of faggy but basically their website is all "um we have a + because we didn't want to exclude like, asexuals or non-gender-binary dudes or ~~whatever~~")! 

... I've not gone to any meetings or whatever because um, yeah, but!


----------



## Lorem Ipsum

so... I came out to my parents yesterday. And they were fine with it. <3


----------



## opaltiger

Dannichu said:


> Oh christ, I have the same thing. And it's not just with people I'm attracted to - every so often I'll be around someone (male or female) I am _sure_ is gay and I'll feel like we have a ~special gay bond~ and then suddenly one day they mention their opposite-sex partner or whatever in passing and I feel utterly crushed and betrayed and they have absolutely no idea and I'm inwardly wailing "but how _could_ you, random guy in my cultures of embodiment class? ;;"
> 
> But my inability to identify gay people coupled with the fact that basically nobody is gay (or if they are, they're men) really sucks. I am apparently the only lesbian in the uni's feminist society, which has like 30 women in. Whoever said that every stereotype is based in truth lied so hard.


In a sort of related concept, I keep forgetting sexualities exist. I've just... stopped thinking in terms of them. I'm not gay or straight. I don't think those words are very good descriptions of anyone, really.

But of course, very few people think this way. It's a bit problematic.


----------



## Flazeah

Gah. I'm confused. Started thinking I might be bi rather than gay. Went to uni thinking I was gay, and until this week, was perfectly happy... gah. Thinking again that I might be bi, but I might just be very confused. I'm kind of struggling with feelings for a male friend of mine, wondering whether I just really care about him platonically or if it's something else.

 ...Did I mention gah? Just gah. Just to complicate things a bit more, I have a crush on someone else - a female - I've told him I'm gay, and this is pretty weird for me; I'm not used to thinking of friends this way. He told me yesterday he's bi and somehow I guessed who he likes correctly. It's a guy we both barely know who's ridiculously pretty.

 Uh. Yeah. Sorry for that ramble. Felt good to get it out.

 opaltiger, I often think that's a very useful way of thinking. Sometimes I wonder how many people really want to think like this but don't because they think it's easier to use terms like gay and straight. But then I figure that the terms are still useful for them because they honestly feel that they're only attracted to a certain gender or whatever. As for myself, I use the terms, but again, I definitely think your way of thinking is a good one, and despite the fact that I use the terms, I think I could get into this way of thinking. Meh.


----------



## Minish

opaltiger said:


> In a sort of related concept, I keep forgetting sexualities exist. I've just... stopped thinking in terms of them. I'm not gay or straight. I don't think those words are very good descriptions of anyone, really.
> 
> But of course, very few people think this way. It's a bit problematic.


Oh, don't worry, I'm exactly the same way. I kind of get irritated whenever I'm reminded sexualities do exist. It's odd getting reminded that I'm bisexual/lesbian/whatever, because it's genuinely just something I never _ever_ think of. I think of myself as belonging to the LGBT community, but only because I'm interested in gay rights and such. :/

It makes it a lot harder when I get abuse shouted at me constantly in the street every day. ): Well, when I say abuse, it's mainly people yelling "LESBIAN!" at me and my girlfriend, in massive, intimidating groups, or occasionally making obscene remarks.

It's... actually getting really annoying. Really, really annoying. The other day we got stalked all the way across town to the station by a group of snotty-nosed girls who apparently found it _very_ interesting that we are such "lesbians". Amusingly, my own year at school doesn't give us _that_ much hassle. We're just constantly followed and yelled at in town by everyone else, and everywhere I go at school I hear whispers of "it's that lesbian, don't go near her" and such like.

I don't like it. ):


----------



## baiyune

Lorem Ipsum said:


> so... I came out to my parents yesterday. And they were fine with it. <3


Yay! *cheers* It's kinda reassuring that more and more parents seem to be accepting their kids. Of course, there are still lots of horrible cases, but ... It's getting better.



Minish said:


> Amusingly, my own year at school doesn't give us _that_ much hassle. We're just constantly followed and yelled at in town by everyone else, and everywhere I go at school I hear whispers of "it's that lesbian, don't go near her" and such like.
> 
> I don't like it. ):


Ugh, that sounds awful. :( My girlfriend and I don't usually get too much trouble for it (it's an all girl's school, you're hard pressed to find a girl that doesn't at least act like she's gay, and my year in particular are all over each other) but there's one girl at school that makes snide remarks whenever she sees us holding hands. It doesn't help (or maybe it does, I don't know) that we're technically not out yet.

Regarding the sexualities thing ... I call myself lesbian because I have only ever been attracted to girls and that's the word for it, but then again I'm only sixteen, so who knows what'll happen in the future?


----------



## Harlequin

Minish said:


> Oh, don't worry, I'm exactly the same way. I kind of get irritated whenever I'm reminded sexualities do exist. It's odd getting reminded that I'm bisexual/lesbian/whatever, because it's genuinely just something I never _ever_ think of. I think of myself as belonging to the LGBT community, but only because I'm interested in gay rights and such. :/


See, I don't even think of myself as a member of the LGBT community. I'm sort of just shuffling along just being a man who happens to like other men. I don't see it as a particularly large part of my identity, and whenever someone mentions it I'm like "... oh right yeah I'm _gay_, there's a whole thing about that isn't there?" 

I mean, it's a perfectly good and descriptive label for me and what I like, but I don't really _think_ in those terms. I'm mostly just "lalalala oh look an attractive man. lalala oh look a new episode of Weeds. lalala oh a sandwich." It's just one trait of many.


----------



## opaltiger

> But then I figure that the terms are still useful for them because they honestly feel that they're only attracted to a certain gender or whatever.


At the risk of seeming presumptuous, I would venture to say that people might feel they're attracted to a certain gender precisely because they're so used to thinking in sexualities. It's either "gay", "straight", or "bi". Three points; nothing in between. So, unless you are attracted to boys and girls equally, you have to be either gay or straight. It's very polarising.



> It's odd getting reminded that I'm bisexual/lesbian/whatever


I know, right? Usually, for convenience' sake, I will say I'm straight, but that's just because I figure most people don't want to be drawn into a discussion about this sort of thing in casual conversation.



> It makes it a lot harder when I get abuse shouted at me constantly in the street every day. ): Well, when I say abuse, it's mainly people yelling "LESBIAN!" at me and my girlfriend, in massive, intimidating groups, or occasionally making obscene remarks.
> 
> It's... actually getting really annoying. Really, really annoying. The other day we got stalked all the way across town to the station by a group of snotty-nosed girls who apparently found it very interesting that we are such "lesbians". Amusingly, my own year at school doesn't give us that much hassle. We're just constantly followed and yelled at in town by everyone else, and everywhere I go at school I hear whispers of "it's that lesbian, don't go near her" and such like.
> 
> I don't like it. ):


*hugs*


----------



## ...

opaltiger said:


> In a sort of related concept, I keep forgetting sexualities exist. I've just... stopped thinking in terms of them. I'm not gay or straight. I don't think those words are very good descriptions of anyone, really.
> 
> But of course, very few people think this way. It's a bit problematic.


I must be part of that very few. 

And you know, people never actually started using the term "straight" to label people until "gay" became a widely-used term, as (usually vulgar) slang for homosexual. Now look at what's become of that. :/



Minish said:


> Oh, don't worry, I'm exactly the same way. I kind of get irritated whenever I'm reminded sexualities do exist. It's odd getting reminded that I'm bisexual/lesbian/whatever, because it's genuinely just something I never ever think of. I think of myself as belonging to the LGBT community, but only because I'm interested in gay rights and such. :/
> 
> It makes it a lot harder when I get abuse shouted at me constantly in the street every day. ): Well, when I say abuse, it's mainly people yelling "LESBIAN!" at me and my girlfriend, in massive, intimidating groups, or occasionally making obscene remarks.
> 
> It's... actually getting really annoying. Really, really annoying. The other day we got stalked all the way across town to the station by a group of snotty-nosed girls who apparently found it very interesting that we are such "lesbians". Amusingly, my own year at school doesn't give us that much hassle. We're just constantly followed and yelled at in town by everyone else, and everywhere I go at school I hear whispers of "it's that lesbian, don't go near her" and such like.
> 
> I don't like it. ):


I can sympathise. I was walking through an outdoor mall a couple of months ago and caught sight of two young women holding hands, not making any effort to conceal that they were, in fact, in a relationship. In the two or so seconds I was within earshot of their vicinity, I heard at least one vulgar insult directed at them. Were it not for the fact that I was with my (homophobic) family at the time, I would have said something. But I know how you're feeling. 



Harlequin said:


> See, I don't even think of myself as a member of the LGBT community. I'm sort of just shuffling along just being a man who happens to like other men. I don't see it as a particularly large part of my identity, and whenever someone mentions it I'm like "... oh right yeah I'm gay, there's a whole thing about that isn't there?"
> 
> I mean, it's a perfectly good and descriptive label for me and what I like, but I don't really think in those terms. I'm mostly just "lalalala oh look an attractive man. lalala oh look a new episode of Weeds. lalala oh a sandwich." It's just one trait of many.


All the members of the TCoD LGBT Club must telepathically connected. This is exactly how I feel.


----------



## Diz

Ryubane said:


> All the members of the TCoD LGBT Club must telepathically connected. This is exactly how I feel.


I'm pretty sure that's how ALL LGBTQ people feel :/

Also, my school is possibly the most homoerotic place ever. All the guys are all over each other, and girls are also a little all over girls, and nobody ever has any problem with it. It kinda makes them all hypocritical when they don't accept anyone who is actually gay.


----------



## Jolty

Minish said:


> Oh, don't worry, I'm exactly the same way. I kind of get irritated whenever I'm reminded sexualities do exist. It's odd getting reminded that I'm bisexual/lesbian/whatever, because it's genuinely just something I never _ever_ think of. I think of myself as belonging to the LGBT community, but only because I'm interested in gay rights and such. :/


Haha I must be the only one here that's the other way around, I'm forever aware that I'm not straight and sometimes I'll be like "I bet everyone else here is straight" or something because I think too much about shit.

Just to be confusing though, I don't think of myself or any of my friends as having a specific sexuality lmao. We just like whoever. No idea why I don't see randomers and everyone else like that...


----------



## Dannichu

Minish said:


> It makes it a lot harder when I get abuse shouted at me constantly in the street every day. ): Well, when I say abuse, it's mainly people yelling "LESBIAN!" at me and my girlfriend, in massive, intimidating groups, or occasionally making obscene remarks.


That's really awful ): And, in my experience, pretty unusual. I hold hands and act couple-y with lots of my female friends and I haven't had anything like that in ages. Over the summer, my sister and I were in Nottingham and were holding hands and got talking to a guy on the street who was collecting for some wildlife charity and he told us what an adorable couple we were until we set him straight (so to speak) and he was hilariously embarassed. My friend and I were shopping together at Sainsbury's and bickering about reusable bags or something and the girl serving us said we were acting like her and her boyfriend. And few things are more amusing than getting approving looks from old people on buses when they think you and your same-sex friend are together.
Maybe it just gets better as you get older?


----------



## Nope

I'm going to set my "interested in" to "Male, Female" on Facebook. To be honest, I think everyone will be okay with it. The only person I know /in the world/ whom I think might be homophobic is my grandma. And she doesn't use technology.

Haha, it's kind of like coming out, except I'm not shouting it out loud or put it as my status, I'm just letting people stumble on it themselves. :B

BUT EITHER WAY wish me luck


----------



## opaltiger

> I hold hands and act couple-y with lots of my female friends and I haven't had anything like that in ages. Over the summer, my sister and I were in Nottingham and were holding hands and got talking to a guy on the street who was collecting for some wildlife charity and he told us what an adorable couple we were until we set him straight (so to speak) and he was hilariously embarassed.


My sister and I get mistaken for a couple a lot, too. :P Especially now that we don't look as obviously related as we used to.

But yeah, in general I don't get the "holding hands = couple" mentality. I walk arm-in-arm with lots of my friends!


----------



## ...

Baku said:


> I'm going to set my "interested in" to "Male, Female" on Facebook. To be honest, I think everyone will be okay with it. The only person I know /in the world/ whom I think might be homophobic is my grandma. And she doesn't use technology.
> 
> Haha, it's kind of like coming out, except I'm not shouting it out loud or put it as my status, I'm just letting people stumble on it themselves. :B
> 
> BUT EITHER WAY wish me luck


I seriously contemplated doing this as I was setting up my account, but most of my relatives (And my mom and dad, to boot) are avid Facebookers and very apt to check the Info page. And they're as homophobic as it gets aside from being like Islamic or something. :/ Good luck and I hope it turns out well.


----------



## opaltiger

What the FUCK? What _possible message_ could this send other than "we want to execute gays but we can't :("?


----------



## ...

I fail to see how executing LGBT folks would _solve_ problems.


----------



## Zuu

opaltiger said:


> In a sort of related concept, I keep forgetting sexualities exist. I've just... stopped thinking in terms of them. I'm not gay or straight. I don't think those words are very good descriptions of anyone, really.
> 
> But of course, very few people think this way. It's a bit problematic.


precisely this. it's very terrible.

also, i changed my Facebook preferences to Male, Female a while ago and no one said anything. i have no idea if anyone even knows.


----------



## Harlequin

Ryubane said:


> I fail to see how executing LGBT folks would _solve_ problems.


you'd have no more gays/the gays you have would be too afraid to say anything therefore you wouldn't have to give gays rights or anything and everyone shuts up about it


----------



## ...

Harlequin said:


> you'd have no more gays/the gays you have would be too afraid to say anything therefore you wouldn't have to give gays rights or anything and everyone shuts up about it


Trufax, but then you're left with furious straight supporters. So what, do they want to execute straight folks too? Or is that option left to us LGBT people?


----------



## Harlequin

Ryubane said:


> Trufax, but then you're left with furious straight supporters. So what, do they want to execute straight folks too? Or is that option left to us LGBT people?


I don't think they're thinking that far ahead. It's more of a "let's just kill all the gays" situation.


----------



## ...

Harlequin said:


> I don't think they're thinking that far ahead. It's more of a "let's just kill all the gays" situation.


Of course they're not thinking that far ahead. They're straight they're  unaware that if they were to start executing LGBT people, there'd be ~10% of the population wiped out a la Holocaust, not to mention all the straight friends of LGBT people (I know I'm not the only one who has them) who'd be left wondering why anyone would want their friends gone just for being a little different.


----------



## Ryan the Terrible

Right, so I've been telling a good number of my friends in the past three weeks or so, and their reactions have shockingly normal. Which is a good thing obviously, but in a way it's kind of disappointing, for a lack of a better word. Like I was preparing for "WHAT, REALLY? I'M TOTALLY GOING TO TELL EVERYONE AND START AVOIDING YOU NOW :D", and got "Ah, neat. So what else is new?"

I should really give my friends more credit. :P


----------



## MentheLapin

I'd like to join, if that's quite alright...


----------



## ...

It is quite alright. Welcome.


----------



## Zeph

Indeed, welcome! Welcome to the coolest campest happiest LGBT-est part of tCoD!

Note to self: Shut up, Castform.


----------



## ...

Zephyrous Castform said:


> Indeed, welcome! Welcome to the coolest campest happiest LGBT-est part of tCoD!
> 
> Note to self: Shut up, Castform.


Why'd you strike all that out? Makes sense


----------



## Harlequin

We's got faggits. 

;D


----------



## shy ♡

I have a feeling no one is going to sympathize with me on this, other than Gew. :[

Okay, so I’m a huge tv addict. But lately my annoyance with tv shows has increased. With one thing in particular, to be specific. And that is the sheer amount of sex that goes on in tv these days. I mean, seriously. With at least half of the shows I watch I have to keep my finger on the fast-forward button. The shows are scattered with kissing and sex and the rest of that gross stuff, and it’s not just pecks or stuff like that it’s full-on kissing with noise as if the visual imagery wasn’t bad enough, I can’t just look away and pretend it isn’t happening, it has to be streamed into my ears.

In the past I’ve put up with this for reasons unknown. I’ve just fast-forwarded. I guess my desire to watch TV overwhelmed my disgust. But it’s getting to the point where there are certain shows I just can’t watch anymore because I know that I won’t be able to enjoy them: I can’t let my hand stray from the fast-forward button, which destroys the entire purpose of my watching tv shows, that being multitasking.

Which leads me to this question: why? Why is tv so full of sex? Can writers not think of anything else to write? Anything else to draw people in? Are people really so sex-obsessed they can’t watch anything that isn’t littered with sex sex sex constantly? If there is a show or movie that has no romance in it at all, are people worried no one will watch it because that’s all anyone ever thinks about? Or do people write it all the time in their shows /because/ that’s all they think about? They can’t write anything else because they can’t think of anything else to write?

Literally the only shows with no kissing are talk shows. And children shows. I know that people have sex and they kiss. But really, they do other things too. And those things are probably more interesting. Or at least as interesting. And maybe we could spend some time featuring those things. Because, god dammit, I’m sick and tired of my eyes and ears being assaulted. :|

(And just to clarify because I just know someone is going to say this, I know some people enjoy the sex. Okay, most people. Fine. I get it. But why do they have to make everyone _see it_. Why. Why. Go have sex. Please. Go do it. But not in my face or on my computer screen. :|)


----------



## Harlequin

Sex is a perfectly normal part of life. The majority of humans on the planet will, at some point, experience sexual urges. Television is meant to be a land of various fantasies, and pretty much every human activity is shown on television. Sex just happens to be a really important part of most people's lives, and it's going to be featured on television. The search for someone to love and hold and kiss is something with which most people on the planet symapthise and recognise from their own lives.

It's just how most of us are wired. We enjoy it. Sometimes it might make us feel a little squeamish depending on what sort of upbringing they've had, but most people can watch most television sex scenes without discomfort. I mean. It's like. It's not _omg totally important_ to have romance and sex everywhere, but it's something that, if it's not there, you notice is missing. 

It's just a part of life. It's a fact of life for many, many, many people alive and watching television right now and I don't think it's going to go away. 

(also yeah i've had this same discussion before with kusari so um. :D)


----------



## shy ♡

But going to the bathroom is a perfectly normal and commonday part of life too. And, I don't know, masturbating. Or, uh, dying. People die. People fart. And burp. And sometimes they don't wear make up. But those things are never featured on tv. (Not that I want to see them either, except for the dying, possibly.)

It just sort of creeps me out how much tv is ruled by sex. I know it's a part of life. But it could be a smaller part of it. Like. Not every second of a tv show. :[


----------



## Harlequin

Dying is featured on television all the time. Masturbation is featured, to a lesser extent. Off the top of my head I can think about _Weeds_ where it was commonly featured. In one episode Shane was caught masturbating over old pictures of his mother. Sometimes people don't wear make up, and that's featured, too. So are the other bodily functions you mentioned.

Maybe you're just watching too many American television programmes, but British produced ones generally contain a lot more _normal_ things. 

It also depends what sort of programme you're watching. If it's something that's supposed to be sexy and dangerous and alluring (for example, _True Blood_) then of course there's going to be a lot of sex.


----------



## shy ♡

I watch a lot of British shows too, though they last a lot less time so there's less to watch. But like, shows that aren't meant to be about sex, like Chuck, are impossible to watch because every 2 seconds there's kissing. :[ Ironically Weeds doesn't have nearly as much kissing as Chuck. Bleh. I honestly don't mind True Blood, because like you said, it's basically just about sex. That's what you're expecting. But a show like Chuck isn't supposed to be about that at all! Whyyy. Why. :[ Why?


----------



## ...

Because sex sells. And it's a very mature topic in most cases (When it's not the butt of rude, crude jokes a la Two and a Half Men), so you're likely to attract a more mature crowd if your film or television show includes some form of sex. Otherwise, in this day and age, it either gets labelled as "run-of-the-mill" or a kid's show. Plus, like Harlequin said, it's relatable to the mature audience, giving it some justification. 

Take, for example, a popular American show like CSI or Criminal Minds; the plot of an episode frequently features sex as a primary motif, in the "jilted lover" manner, thus, justified. Otherwise, it makes for a darker and edgier show. 

So Pentimento, your problem is certainly understandable, and not irrational. But it's just a fact of life. And don't take this the wrong way, because I'm not trying to sound forceful or anything, but you'll just have to deal with it. Because it doesn't look like it's going away anytime soon.


----------



## Dannichu

I don't mind sex on TV as long as there's a bit of warning for it. I remember a couple of times watching series 6 of Buffy when a scene with standard Buffyish stuff would suddenly cut to Buffy and Spike having noisy sex and it would always make me go O.o

I think most people have things that squick them that happen on TV, though - I absolutely cannot _stand_ torture scenes, and the vaguest suggestion of rape makes me stop watching. It means there are shows that I'd happily watch otherwise, or I have to watch with my trigger-finger on the fastforward button, but that's how it is. I have a friend who can't watch House because she can't stand watching people have seizures. I don't think people are obsessed with sex, it just... happens.

(can I suggest The West Wing as a good adult TV show with no sex and minimal kissing/romance? :D)


----------



## shy ♡

Ryubane said:


> Because sex sells. And it's a very mature topic in most cases (When it's not the butt of rude, crude jokes a la Two and a Half Men), so you're likely to attract a more mature crowd if your film or television show includes some form of sex. Otherwise, in this day and age, it either gets labelled as "run-of-the-mill" or a kid's show. Plus, like Harlequin said, it's relatable to the mature audience, giving it some justification.
> 
> Take, for example, a popular American show like CSI or Criminal Minds; the plot of an episode frequently features sex as a primary motif, in the "jilted lover" manner, thus, justified. Otherwise, it makes for a darker and edgier show.
> 
> So Pentimento, your problem is certainly understandable, and not irrational. But it's just a fact of life. And don't take this the wrong way, because I'm not trying to sound forceful or anything, but you'll just have to deal with it. Because it doesn't look like it's going away anytime soon.


Sex doesn't strike me as a very mature subject. It seems more... animalistic. Which doesn't make it good or bad, it's just not exactly a 'mature' subject. Mature subjects would be, let's say, politics, or something of the sort. Sex is just something humans do, like eating, because our bodies tell us we want to.

Now, the things you mentioned, like rape and etc. on shows like CSI and Criminal minds are things that are _caused_ by sex, or mis-using it. They rarely even show the actual sex (which is part of what I love about Criminal Minds). It really isn't about the act itself, it's about how people twist it into perverted things.

Also 'it's not good change' is both obvious and redundant. :| About 1% of the population isn't interested in sex. Which is sad imo but whatever. On the other hand, the same has been said for homophobia and racism, etc. (not that these things are the same), so having such an attitude is really not helpful.



Dannichu said:


> I don't mind sex on TV as long as there's a bit of warning for it. I remember a couple of times watching series 6 of Buffy when a scene with standard Buffyish stuff would suddenly cut to Buffy and Spike having noisy sex and it would always make me go O.o
> 
> I think most people have things that squick them that happen on TV, though - I absolutely cannot _stand_ torture scenes, and the vaguest suggestion of rape makes me stop watching. It means there are shows that I'd happily watch otherwise, or I have to watch with my trigger-finger on the fastforward button, but that's how it is. I have a friend who can't watch House because she can't stand watching people have seizures. I don't think people are obsessed with sex, it just... happens.
> 
> (can I suggest The West Wing as a good adult TV show with no sex and minimal kissing/romance? :D)


Hm, I never really considered that it might be the same for people who can't handle blood/gore or other things. I guess that's a good point. I do think there should be a warning (not like WATCH OUT SEX AHEAD but just some sort of hint of what's going on) before though, like you said. Those Buffy/Spike seasons were the worst. :[ Especially since I loved Spike so much. _Why?_

You know I'm adding The West Wing to my to-watch list, even though last time I tried it it was really annoying. I'm just so easy to convince. (Only by you though ;D)


----------



## Dannichu

I remember on rental videos (and possibly DVDs? I'm showing my age now, haha), they used to break down the film's classification into "Language, Sex, Violence, Other" (also, incidentally, a Stereophonics album name), which was useful to me because I don't care about language - I really don't understand why things like comedy or shows like The Thick of It get 18 ratings just because of certian swear words used - or psychological horror or whatnot, but I like to know before I start watching how graphic the violence will be, or if there'll be a gratuitious sex scene midway. I don't like censorship, but I do think that people should be able to choose what they watch.

Bleeeh, I'm so with you on the Buffy/Spike thing. I miss Something Blue, back in series 4, when the idea of Spike and Buffy making out was hilarious D:

Incidentally (and very on-topic with the club, no less!) the double-standard that exists for same-sex romantic depictions angers me very much. You can have heterosexual sex scenes all over the place, but you can't have a canonical same-sex relationship without it becoming something to protect the children from. Back to Buffy, there was a semi-sexual scene the writers wanted to include between Willow and Tara that the networks cut, but an episode later, another character was _skinned and immolated_ and nobody questioned it.

Media aimed at the youngest of children has a heavy focus on heterosexual relationships (everything from the main character's parents to the Disney princes and princesses getting together), but can you think of a single canonically queer character on a show aimed at kids? Captain Jack Harkness, yes, but the writers of Doctor Who are _that awesome_

(Aww, really? It's one of my absolute favourites ever <3)


----------



## shy ♡

Generally if I'm watching a show I can learn what sort of show it is, though there are changes, like, with Buffy. The warnings never help, really, and are more laughable than anything (watching Oz and getting that warning every time was just lul). Really, I'd just like some hint that there's about to be kissing or something so I can fastforward. :[

And uhg, I _so_ agree with you. It extends way past just sex, though, into actual relationships (and obviously, characters themselves). A huge example of this is in the latest season of Glee, Kurt has gotten a much larger storyline. And _everyone_ has been complaining about it becoming 'the Kurt show'. How is Kurt having a storyline any different than Quinn, Rachel, Finn, etc. having a storyline in the first season? I don't know. :| (There has actually been a huge amount of homophobia towards Kurt in the fandom, which is really, really disgusting. I'm just thankful the writers know better than to listen and keep writing this storyline because it's a great one and deserves to be written.)

Anyhow outside of Glee (I am seriously obsessed someone help me aaaa), it's really depressing how right you are. :\ Although I care more about having actual gay _characters_ in shows that have romantic relationships than seeing their sexy times, personally. But that's me again. :D 

DW isn't... really aimed at kids, is it? No more than Glee is. Well, Glee is aimed at teens. :v There's also Ugly Betty, which was also probably aimed at teens. To be fair though I have no idea what shows are aimed at kids other than like, Wizards of Waverly Place or something. (Oh, in my mind Jesse, Joey and Danny from Full House were a poly couple. Totally canon.)


----------



## opaltiger

> DW isn't... really aimed at kids, is it? No more than Glee is. Well, Glee is aimed at teens. :v There's also Ugly Betty, which was also probably aimed at teens. To be fair though I have no idea what shows are aimed at kids other than like, Wizards of Waverly Place or something. (Oh, in my mind Jesse, Joey and Danny from Full House were a poly couple. Totally canon.)


Doctor Who is a "family show", which translates into "lots of subtext". Though it isn't quite as bad as Merlin.


----------



## Dannichu

Mmm, but while I'm an ardent lover of subtext, there's really something to be said for maintext. I love Sherlock ripping John's clothes off in a darkened swimming pool as much as the next person (okay, perhaps a bit more), but regulating gay relationships to _just_ subtext is pretty problematic; they're never allowed to be as 'real' as heterosexual relationships (especially when it's just done for the lulz) and the actuality of same-sex love is still deemed unsuitable for children. 

But said I said, subtext's still absolutely delightful, and one of the many reasons the BBC owns my soul, and while not as good as some form of maintext would be, it still helps normalize homosexuality, which can only be good, particularly in the face of a lot of rampant homophobia on television, especially American TV (I'm looking at _you_, Two and a Half Men).

That the Glee fandom is homophobic breaks my heart. And, thinking about it, my brain. I mean, _how_??


----------



## Butterfree

*hops in*

Unlike going to the bathroom or not wearing makeup, sex is pretty inherently exciting to most people above a certain age, and not even just in the directly titillating way. That's just how we're wired. While I fully agree that romance frequently just gets in the way of the plots we're actually watching for, when people truly start cheering for two characters to get together, they will usually find it more satisfying to actually see them kissing passionately or getting it on than if they were just told, "Oh, they got together! The end."

Furthermore, having that status as something most people spend a lot of time thinking about and desiring even though it is somewhat taboo, and with the intensity, usual privacy and discreetness of the act itself, it is easy to use sex to say something interesting about a character that wouldn't be shown so easily otherwise. I liked season six Buffy/Spike because I found it psychologically compelling; though showing somewhat _less_ of it wouldn't have hurt, I honestly think the show was better for having it happen and, yes, showing some of it.

So yeah, if you ask me, that's why there is so much sex on television. Everybody has things they're uncomfortable watching, but unfortunately, that's not exactly the writers' problem - they couldn't possibly tiptoe around every conceivable squick in the universe, and again, most people enjoy, rather than detest, watching sex or suggestions of sex. :/

That said, that's exactly why they shouldn't tipetoe around showing homosexual characters/relationships/kissing/sex just because some silly portion of the population will find it wrong or gross.


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## shy ♡

Man I didn't mean to start a serious debate here xD I was simply annoyed at being forced to watch sex constantly and wanted to vent. 

I really can't empathize with any of what you've illustrated, Butterchu. I'll accept that other people feel that way but I don't care for seeing characters 'get together' romantically or otherwise, so. That said, I do think that often has to do with the writing; _very_ often the writing for romance is just goddamn terrible. So it's probably a mix of my not caring for romance to begin with, and then there not being any interest in the characters or their interactions. For example (one of very few)... I loved Pam and Jim from The Office (US version). I was one of those who, once they got together, was paranoid they'd have troubles and break up. They're a perfect couple, I love them both as individuals and I love seeing them together, and perhaps as a bonus I barely ever have to see them kissing.

Mostly though I just don't care. :[ I don't expect others to feel like this. I was just venting and I know I'm weird.

Anyhow! Dannichu! I have to disagree regarding Sherlock - I'm really, really glad they stuck to just subtext because it leaves Sherlock as an ace! :D Which is _so much better_ because there are practically no aces on tv. Way less represented than gays, sry. 

I'll never understand how a Glee fan can be homophobic... The thing is, it extends so deep and into smaller things they do, that they don't even realize are homophobic. Like how Kurt's behavior is creepy but Rachel's and Will's are normal. I've actually heard people say that. :[ What? I don't try to defend Kurt's lesser moments, but what?


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## Dannichu

Funny you should say that; I really liked Dawn and Tim's relationship in the UK version of The Office. I don't want to ruin it if you've not seen it (if you haven't, I recommend it - it's two series of six half-hour episodes, so you can see the whole thing in an afternoon, with the adorableness that is Martin Freeman offsetting the annoyance that is Ricky Gervais), but the final episode was utterly _wonderful_.

Oh no, I'm glad that they left everything ambiguous in Sherlock; I don't think they could make them get together without some serious change of characterization; that sort of stuff's much better left to fandom.
But there's a trend on TV, epecially in recent years, of having 'bromances' rather than anything exploring the possibility of two guys actually having a romantic relationship, and that, I feel, is a shame. 

God, I remember when JKR said Dumbledore was gay and suddenly a ton of people went "Who knows what he and Harry got up to in his office, ho-ho!". Which really just makes _no_ sense.


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## Butterfree

Pentimento said:


> I really can't empathize with any of what you've illustrated, Butterchu. I'll accept that other people feel that way but I don't care for seeing characters 'get together' romantically or otherwise, so. That said, I do think that often has to do with the writing; _very_ often the writing for romance is just goddamn terrible. So it's probably a mix of my not caring for romance to begin with, and then there not being any interest in the characters or their interactions. For example (one of very few)... I loved Pam and Jim from The Office (US version). I was one of those who, once they got together, was paranoid they'd have troubles and break up. They're a perfect couple, I love them both as individuals and I love seeing them together, and perhaps as a bonus I barely ever have to see them kissing.
> 
> Mostly though I just don't care. :[ I don't expect others to feel like this. I was just venting and I know I'm weird.


Oh, I completely understand - again, we all have different preferences in what we like to watch, and that's why I specifically said _most_ people. It was just a response to this paragraph:



> Which leads me to this question: why? Why is tv so full of sex? Can writers not think of anything else to write? Anything else to draw people in? Are people really so sex-obsessed they can’t watch anything that isn’t littered with sex sex sex constantly? If there is a show or movie that has no romance in it at all, are people worried no one will watch it because that’s all anyone ever thinks about? Or do people write it all the time in their shows /because/ that’s all they think about? They can’t write anything else because they can’t think of anything else to write?


My point was simply that there can be reasons why the writers would want to include sex that aren't "they can't think of anything else to write or draw people in". You seemed to be implying that the very presence of sex on television was utterly baffling to you, so I was just attempting to unbaffle it (that is totally a word). No debate intended.

Though I forgot to directly address the "why isn't there anything with no romance in it at all" bit, which I completely agree with. Most works don't need romance to begin with and, as I mentioned, have it just get in the way of the plot we're actually watching for.

*waves "Sherlock is asexual" banner* :D Gay relationships are great and there do need to be more of them, but I love my bromances.



> God, I remember when JKR said Dumbledore was gay and suddenly a ton of people went "Who knows what he and Harry got up to in his office, ho-ho!". Which really just makes no sense.


Lolwhut. Imagine that happening if JKR confirmed McGonagall was straight.


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## Vladimir Putin's LJ

One of the things that angered me the most about the new film was Holmes' sex life (on top of his hobo looks). He's asexual goddamn youuu and he's a mysoginist :( gdi get it right.

Is Sherlock that good, then? I'm asking because I usually have an intense hatred for modern adaptations of old stuff (and nowadays book-to-film stuff has been horrendously disappointing), i.e. I almost literally cried at the 2004 Dorian Gray film (and the 2009 one but for different reasons HELLO BLOWJOB HEY I DON'T SEEM TO REMEMBER YOU).


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## Dannichu

Aaaaaahhhh it is _so_ good :D 

It's a modern updating, but it's done by people who clearly absolutely _adore_ the source material and rather than make a film with lots of sex and explosions, want to do justice to the things that Sherlock Holmes has always been about, and without the trappings of hansom cabs and pipes, it's actually a lot more true to the source material than many of the 'classic' interpretations. Sherlock is the _only_ SH adapation I've seen where Watson is the Watson of the books (a doctor and a soldier, and intelligent enough for Sherlock to want to keep him around) and not some doddering fool. 
That which has been changed (and it's not nearly as much as you'd imagine) is done with fans of the original in mind - Sherlock talking about knowledge of the solar system using up memory on his mental hard drive is an amusing metaphor for those new to all things Holmesian, but it's ten times more brilliant if you know it's an update of Holmes telling Watson about unnessesary things taking up space in his "mental attic". 

And the subtext. It's _glorious_. It's everything slashy about House and Wilson cranked up to eleven. :D


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## shy ♡

Bachuru said:


> Though I forgot to directly address the "why isn't there anything with no romance in it at all" bit, which I completely agree with. Most works don't need romance to begin with and, as I mentioned, have it just get in the way of the plot we're actually watching for.
> 
> *waves "Sherlock is asexual" banner* :D Gay relationships are great and there do need to be more of them, but I love my bromances.


Uhg, yes. I sort of see romance as a plot point that shouldn't be added unless it adds something in itself to the story (because isn't that why _everything_ is added?), and most romance doesn't do that at all. Weirdly though, I tend to enjoy gay relationships in tv more than straight ones. I think I'm biased though. :P 

Also, er, I probably was implying that and it's often how I feel. Mostly because I have to suffer through it _so often_ and it adds absolutely nothing to the story, so I get just so sick of it. But you know, it's hard to sympathize with something you can't... really experience or understand yourself. :\ (Which is why I enjoy the serial killers so much! Ahahaha okay.)



> Lolwhut. Imagine that happening if JKR confirmed McGonagall was straight.


cannot unsee *bleaches eyes*



Dannichu said:


> Funny you should say that; I really liked Dawn and Tim's relationship in the UK version of The Office. I don't want to ruin it if you've not seen it (if you haven't, I recommend it - it's two series of six half-hour episodes, so you can see the whole thing in an afternoon, with the adorableness that is Martin Freeman offsetting the annoyance that is Ricky Gervais), but the final episode was utterly _wonderful_.
> 
> Oh no, I'm glad that they left everything ambiguous in Sherlock; I don't think they could make them get together without some serious change of characterization; that sort of stuff's much better left to fandom.
> But there's a trend on TV, epecially in recent years, of having 'bromances' rather than anything exploring the possibility of two guys actually having a romantic relationship, and that, I feel, is a shame.
> 
> God, I remember when JKR said Dumbledore was gay and suddenly a ton of people went "Who knows what he and Harry got up to in his office, ho-ho!". Which really just makes _no_ sense.


Of course I saw the UK version! Don't you know me by now? :P While I did like it, I admit to preferring the US version. I'm not sure what exactly I like more about it... the humour was very different even though the writing was very similar, and there was a lot more of the *glances at camera* from Jim, and, I don't know. Also, I really hate the actress who plays Dawn. I don't know why, either. The way she talks or something... uhg.

As long as you agree with me about Sherlock I can agree with you. :D Ahaha no I really do though. The few shows that really show gay kissing go too far for me, like Queer As Folk, which I tried to watch and just couldn't. A really good should though, is Six Feet Under, which gives completely equal coverage to the gay and straight characters (and is also a super awesome show). Oh, and Oz, also awesome. 

... I am super glad I don't get so deep into HP fandom. :|

Also yes Sherlock = one of the best shows I have ever seen and everyone should watch it.


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## Vladimir Putin's LJ

Six Feet Under is the best show I've ever seen and I really do reccommend it for a million reasons, but relevant for this thread: I love the way David and Keith's relationship is portrayed, and I'm really pleased to see a show that handled everything so well re:David's homosexuality. There's a big focus on it, but at the same time, it's not ridiculous or annoying and is actually pretty subtle while successfully putting the point across.
But the entire show is amazing and pff the ending ;__; oh god

Haha, I watched all of Oz in like three days, basically. It's good even though it's got its moments (Beecher's nail-killing is hilarious).

I'll make sure to check out Sherlock, and to keep an open mind. I'm just so awful when it comes to accepting updates, haha. I'm pretty conservative in that respect.


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## shy ♡

Vladimir Putin's LJ said:


> Six Feet Under is the best show I've ever seen and I really do reccommend it for a million reasons, but relevant for this thread: I love the way David and Keith's relationship is portrayed, and I'm really pleased to see a show that handled everything so well re:David's homosexuality. There's a big focus on it, but at the same time, it's not ridiculous or annoying and is actually pretty subtle while successfully putting the point across.
> But the entire show is amazing and pff the ending ;__; oh god
> 
> Haha, I watched all of Oz in like three days, basically. It's good even though it's got its moments (Beecher's nail-killing is hilarious).


So much agreement! I love David and Keith's relationship. Honestly I love every single character from SFU. Such a good show. And I watched all the seasons in around a week, speaking of crazy-speed-watching, since I was sick at the time and literally couldn't get off the couch. And hell yeah at the ending, possibly the best ending to a show I have _ever_ seen. So good. 

Oz can be super-narm but it's still one of the best shows ever, ever. And Beecher is awesome don't deny it.

(This is totally on-topic I swear.)


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## Harlequin

Brothers & Sisters totally has gay romance! It's aaaaawesome! Scotty/Kevin otp ; ; it's so adorable. The best thing? _They gay stuff is treated no differently to the straight stuff!_ Kevin and Scotty are basically just two more characters who have lives and stories, it's awesome.

And adorable. <3


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## ...

Harlequin said:


> Brothers & Sisters totally has gay romance! It's aaaaawesome! Scotty/Kevin otp ; ; it's so adorable. The best thing? *They gay stuff is treated no differently to the straight stuff!* Kevin and Scotty are basically just two more characters who have lives and stories, it's awesome.
> 
> And adorable. <3


And _why_ have I not heard of this before? I must see this show. The boldface stands out for me. <3


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## Harlequin

It's awesome. <3 Kevin is basically just another member of the family who sometimes gets storylines, and he just happens to be gay!

also, have a video

http://www.snagfilms.com/films/title/straight_acting/

this guy was a Mormon missionary, now he plays in a gay rugby team

WATCH IT FAGGOTS/UNSEXUALS


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## Eloi

On the topic of too much sex on television, I am inclined to agree for different reasons, especially for comedic shows. 

I just find sex, so, utterly_ boring_. If it is a comedy based around sex (which is, oh, all of them on every damn channel today), it is really, really dull. I mean it is like:

TV: A-ha. We just made a sly reference to copulation. Aren't we clever?
Me: Not after the 67th time, no.

Its like a dead horse, bludgeoned to death by other dead horses.


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## Vladimir Putin's LJ

Of course I search for Oz clips to refresh my memory and one of the first things I find is this
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sVAOqJsnx-I
I'll never get it out of my mind now.


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## MentheLapin

Vladimir Putin's LJ said:


> Of course I search for Oz clips to refresh my memory and one of the first things I find is this
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sVAOqJsnx-I
> I'll never get it out of my mind now.


Can never unsee. Ever.

But now I have a strange compelling urge to watch Oz.


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## ultraviolet

This thread's huge! Please continue discussion at the new thread. C:


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