# I'm vaguely interested in metal but I don't really know where to start



## #1 bro

(see thread title) 

since it seems that half the people at this forum are metalheads, it seemed like here would be a nice place to ask. I kind of like some metal songs I've heard, but there are so many metal bands, and no band really stands out to listen to first. And furthermore, so much of it is so similar...

Er, but I wouldn't say I'm interested in _all_ metal. I definitely don't like the really brutal stuff (e.g. Cannibal Corpse) and I'm not a huge fan of the growling vocal style. I know that metal is an incredibly diverse genre with more subgenres than there are actual bands and so I can't possibly try to comprehend the difference between all the different varieties, but I'm about to try...

I _think_ I like power metal, progressive metal, gothic metal, and symphonic metal. Also, I heard this folk metal song (called Trollhammerin or somethng) once and it was pretty cool.

The only metal I actually have on my hard drive right now is two albums by Dream Theater (which are pretty good) and Opeth's Damnation (which is awesome, but not quite metal...) I also really like Porcupine Tree. Even though they aren't metal, that may give you an accurate estimate of what I like? Maybe not...


anyway, my middle finger on my right hand really hurts, so I'm just going to go ahead and post this now... hope it's enough information for you to help me out.


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## Tarvos

Ooh, well, metal is a tricky genre to like. I recommend you get started on more proggy and regular metal things first, and then move your way onwards into the different metal genres.

Ergo, start at the roots, and listen to the classics: Black Sabbath, Iron Maiden, Deep Purple etc. Then move onto Metallica and Slayer.

If you enjoy prog and power metal, check out Opeth's Blackwater Park (that's their best), DT was mentioned, and then you have so many options.

Here's just a few bands:

Pain of Salvation
Anathema
Katatonia
Helloween
Blind Guardian
Iced Earth
Nightwish
Sonata Arctica
Kamelot
Symphony X

There's many more I could mention, but these are just to name a few. I like a lot of esoteric stuff as well, so you may want to try Neurosis for example. If you need any specifics on albums, just PM me or Retsu (if you are into the symphonic female stuff, which is alright, but I'm a bit saturated with it).

Currently listening to Summoning actually which is damn awesome.


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## Retsu

Right now you're in the lighter end of the spectrum (power, symphonic, gothic) which is also where my tastes are. While I would like to say "there aren't any other ways to go except heavier," in reality none of that stuff is very atmospheric. I'm not nearly as fluent in metalhead as Altmer is, but I'd definitely recommend some of the more progressive metal acts all over the place.

Stream of Passion, The Gathering, Anathema, Katatonia, Kamelot, and (gasp) Tristania are all wonderful places to start. I was never able to just jump from one metal subgenre to another - I had to let the bands lead me into them. It went from Evanescence (alternative rock) to Within Temptation and Nightwish (symphonic metal) to Epica (symphonic gothic metal) to Tristania (gothic metal) to other bands like Draconian (gothic/doom metal)... see what I mean? :P

*ETA:* Stay away from Sonata Arctica if you value your sanity.


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## Zuu

Here's a list, I guess. I'll try not to name bands already mentioned.

Power: Falconer, Angra, Galneryus (pretty decent j-metal)
Folk: Falconer, Ensiferum, Elvenking, Tyr
Trad. (Maiden, Judas Priest): 3 Inches of Blood 
Melodeath: Amon Amarth, Ensiferum, The Black Dahlia Murder
Death: Vital Remains (Dechristianized mostly; Icons of Evil is alright), 
Melodic/symphonic black: Graveworm
Black: Immortal
Doom: The Sword
Prog.: Unexpect (thanks Furret)

wow my music collection is bare. I need moar!


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## Tarvos

Unexpect is great but seriously hard to get into. Unexpect is so radically jarring, avant-garde and weird I wouldn't recommend it unless you are a huge fan of bands such as Mr. Bungle, Dog Fashion Disco, Dillinger Escape Plan, and such.

To be honest I don't like folk metal that much, especially the overly flutey stuff, it's too bromantic and gay for my tastes; I prefer folk in my black metal rather than power or death metal. 

Another thing: do you like hardcore-punk style shouted vocals or death growls? If not, I really recommend you start with Maiden, Priest, and power metal because it takes an age to get used to them (I am now, but you work your way through genres generally).

Then you can slowly ease into that vocal style without getting annoyed. The only band I like that is prog enough and has growls to be good is Opeth, so.

Also for doom, Candlemass is a must.


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## Lady Grimdour

Like Watershed said, you can first roll with the classics and see what happens.

Go with either old Sabbath/Maiden stuff then see where that takes you.

I highly suggest Exodus, Metallica (sans Black album to St. Anger) and probably Iced Earth (The Glorious Burden is good).


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## Fireworks

going to mention a few albums you should hear as a start to get into the genre more

Sonata Arctica - Ecliptica, Reckoning Night
Pain Of Salvation - Remedy Lane
Iron Maiden - Powerslave, Brave New World, The Number Of The Beast, Seventh Son Of A Seventh Son
Dream Theater - Scenes From A Memory, Images And Words, Octavarium, Train Of Thought
Kamelot - The Black Halo
Opeth - Blackwater Park (it has growls in it, but this was, for me at least, the key album to get used to growls; on first listen I was annoyed by the growls, but when I decided to give it a 2nd chance, I was no longer bothered by the growls at all and was amazed by the entire album, and from there on could get into any band with growls)
Symphony X - Paradise Lost
Katatonia - Viva Emptiness


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## Ether's Bane

Recommended albums by subgenre: (I don't own all these albums, but I've listened to many of the songs off these albums on Youtube.)

Heavy metal:

Black Sabbath - Paranoid
Motorhead - Ace of Spades
Deep Purple - Machine Head
AC/DC - Dirty Deeds Done Dirt Cheap
Iron Maiden - Killers
Ozzy Osbourne - Blizzard of Ozz
Iron Maiden - The Number of the Beast
Avenged Sevenfold - City of Evil
Judas Priest - Painkiller
Judas Priest - Screaming for Vengeance
Scorpions - Love at First Sting

Thrash metal:
Slayer - Reign in Blood
Metallica - Ride the Lightning
Metallica - Master of Puppets
Megadeth - Peace Sells... but Who's Buying?
Anthrax - Fistful of Metal
Testament - Souls of Black
Metallica - Death Magnetic
Metallica - Load
Megadeth - United Abominations
Testament - Demonic
Iced Earth - Iced Earth
Slayer - Seasons in the Abyss

Power metal:
DragonForce - Inhuman Rampage
Blind Guardian - Tales from the Twilight World
Blind Guardian - Nightfall in Middle-Earth
DragonForce - Ultra Beatdown
Iced Earth - Something Wicked This Way Comes
Helloween - Keeper of the Seven Keys, Parts 1 and 2
Sonata Arctica - Winterheart's Guild

Death metal:
Morbid Angel - Blessed are the Sick
Children of Bodom - Are You Dead Yet
Morbid Angel - Heretic
Dethklok - The Dethalbum
Cannibal Corpse - Gallery of Suicide
In Flames - Clayman
In Flames - Come Clarity
Cannibal Corpse - Vile

I'll edit in more another time.


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## Tarvos

Grimdour The Desecrater said:


> Like Watershed said, you can first roll with the classics and see what happens.
> 
> Go with either old Sabbath/Maiden stuff then see where that takes you.
> 
> I highly suggest Exodus, Metallica (sans Black album to St. Anger) and probably Iced Earth (The Glorious Burden is good).



Exodus are alright once you get into thrash, but The Glorious Burden is a terrible IE album. Stick with their 90s output. And Horror Show I guess. I'm a fan, so I own everything but the debut (and no official copy of something wicked) but meh.



> Recommended albums by subgenre:
> 
> Heavy metal:
> 
> *Black Sabbath - Paranoid*
> *Motorhead - Ace of Spades*
> *Deep Purple - Machine Head*
> _AC/DC - Dirty Deeds Done Dirt Cheap_ AC/DC is overrated
> Iron Maiden - Killers (this album is ok but it has no Dickinson therefore inferior)
> *Ozzy Osbourne - Blizzard of Ozz*
> *Iron Maiden - The Number of the Beast*
> _Avenged Sevenfold - City of Evil_ Terrible band
> *Judas Priest - Painkiller*
> *Judas Priest - Screaming for Vengeance*
> Scorpions - Love at First Sting
> 
> Thrash metal:
> *Slayer - Reign in Blood*
> *Metallica - Ride the Lightning*
> *Metallica - Master of Puppets*
> _Megadeth - Peace Sells... but Who's Buying?_ Two good songs: Rust in Peace is better, though this isn't too bad to get into the genre
> Anthrax - Fistful of Metal (not heard this one but Among the Living is their best)
> Testament - Souls of Black
> _Metallica - Death Magnetic_ (listen to Justice for all instead)
> _Metallica - Load_ (FUCKING SKIP THIS ONE UNLESS YOU'RE AN IDIOT)
> _Megadeth - United Abominations_ (listen to RIP or Countdown to Extinction instead)
> Testament - Demonic
> *Slayer - Seasons in the Abyss *


Bolded ones I recommend, ones in italic I would hold off on. Also for Slayer, South of Heaven is essential listening.

Squarewalkers recs are good.


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## Zuu

Yeah, for thrash, pretty much get everything by Megadeth. I don't know, I'm kind of obsessed with them. Mustaine is an arrogant faggot but he's pretty good at writing music so whatever. Countdown to Extinction, Rust in Peace, maybe Peace Sells but it's all up to personal taste.


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## Music Dragon

Also, I think I speak for everyone here when I say that you must absolutely start listening to DragonForce.


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## Tarvos

Music Dragon said:


> Also, I think I speak for everyone here when I say that you must absolutely start listening to DragonForce.


:huh:


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## Music Dragon

Oh yes, and Poison! Can't get anywhere without having heard them.


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## BCM

I recommend Candlemass, Solitude Aeturnus, and While Heaven Wept for epic doom, but there isn't much I can say that wouldn't be redundant.

If you want to get into growls, I suggest Shape of Despair (particularly Angels of Distress) and Swallow the Sun, that's how I got into them.

I love Acid Bath, try them, they're mostly sludge but are kind of a mix.


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## Tarvos

Music Dragon said:


> Oh yes, and Poison! Can't get anywhere without having heard them.


yeah that would be pretty wise

to skip


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## Zuu

You know, sometimes I can't tell whether or not MD is being serious.


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## Ether's Bane

Here's the full list.

Heavy metal:
Black Sabbath - Paranoid
Motorhead - Ace of Spades
Deep Purple - Machine Head
AC/DC - Dirty Deeds Done Dirt Cheap
Iron Maiden - Killers
Ozzy Osbourne - Blizzard of Ozz
Iron Maiden - The Number of the Beast
Avenged Sevenfold - City of Evil
Judas Priest - Painkiller
Judas Priest - Screaming for Vengeance
Scorpions - Love at First Sting
Priestess - Hello Master
Dio - Holy Diver
Loudness - On the Prowl
Skid Row - Slave to the Grind
Ozzy Osbourne - Bark at the Moon

Thrash metal:
Slayer - Reign in Blood
Metallica - Ride the Lightning
Metallica - Master of Puppets
Megadeth - Peace Sells... but Who's Buying?
Anthrax - Fistful of Metal
Testament - Souls of Black
Metallica - Death Magnetic
Metallica - Load
Megadeth - United Abominations
Testament - Demonic
Iced Earth - Iced Earth
Slayer - Seasons in the Abyss

Power metal:
DragonForce - Inhuman Rampage
Blind Guardian - Tales from the Twilight World
Blind Guardian - Nightfall in Middle-Earth
DragonForce - Ultra Beatdown
Iced Earth - Something Wicked This Way Comes
Helloween - Keeper of the Seven Keys, Parts 1 and 2
Sonata Arctica - Winterheart's Guild
X Japan - Art of Life
X Japan - Blue Blood

Death metal:
Morbid Angel - Blessed are the Sick
Children of Bodom - Are You Dead Yet
Morbid Angel - Heretic
Dethklok - The Dethalbum
Cannibal Corpse - Gallery of Suicide
In Flames - Clayman
In Flames - Come Clarity
Cannibal Corpse - Vile
Nile - In Their Darkened Shrines
Children of Bodom - Blooddrunk

Now, on to three often-derided subgenres of metal: metalcore, glam metal, and nu-metal. (A lot of you, look away now.)

Metalcore:
All That Remains - The Fall of Ideals
Avenged Sevenfold - Sounding the Seventh Trumpet
Killswitch Engage - Alive or Just Breathing
All That Remains - Overcome
Bullet for My Valentine - Scream Aim Fire

Glam metal:
Poison - Look What the Cat Dragged In
Winger - Winger
Poison - Open Up and Say... Ahh!
Twisted Sister - Stay Hungry
Bon Jovi - Slippery When Wet
Poison - Flesh & Blood

Nu-metal:
Disturbed - The Sickness
Slipknot - Slipknot
Disturbed - Ten Thousand Fists
Disturbed - Indestructible
Slipknot - The Subliminal Verses
Slipknot - All Hope Is Gone

(yes, Disturbed and Slipknot are the only somewhat-decent nu-metal bands, at least in my opinion)


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## Tarvos

> Power metal:
> _DragonForce - Inhuman Rampage_ Ignore this band until later.
> *Blind Guardian - Tales from the Twilight World
> Blind Guardian - Nightfall in Middle-Earth* These two, and Imaginations from the Other Side as well.
> _DragonForce - Ultra Beatdown_ (terrible)
> *Iced Earth - Something Wicked This Way Comes* (excellent album: burnt offerings is better)
> *Helloween - Keeper of the Seven Keys, Parts 1 and 2
> Sonata Arctica - Winterheart's Guild* (listen to other SA albums that squarewalker mentioned first)
> X Japan - Art of Life
> X Japan - Blue Blood
> 
> Death metal:
> *Morbid Angel - Blessed are the Sick*
> _Children of Bodom - Are You Dead Yet_ (this isn't death metal, not even fucking close. follow the reaper is better)
> Morbid Angel - Heretic
> Dethklok - The Dethalbum
> _Cannibal Corpse - Gallery of Suicide_ (keep this one for later)
> *In Flames - Clayman*
> In Flames - Come Clarity
> _Cannibal Corpse - Vile_
> *Nile - In Their Darkened Shrines* (Annihilation of the Wicked is better)
> _Children of Bodom - Blooddrunk_


Death - Human needs a mention for death metal definitely.


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## Music Dragon

Dezzuu said:


> You know, sometimes I can't tell whether or not MD is being serious.


Why don't you think highly of me? *gentle weeping*

In other news, I must also strongly recommend Warrant.


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## Tarvos

Just listen to Motley Crue and be done with it. Glam metal is terrible.

also going to see DragonForce tomorrow :x


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## #1 bro

haha, have fun. I heard they're terrible live but then again, I'm sure you already know that. I'm assuming you're only going because your friends are going? :|

hey, what a coincidence, it's for the same reason that I'm listening to the Killers right now :O


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## Tarvos

Yeah a friend of mine is going but also I've been stuck inside for six weeks and am extremely fucking bored. Also Turisas are opening and they have an accordion. Also it was cheap.

So yeah.


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## Retsu

As I've officially converted a friend of mine to metal lover with this CD, I must recommend it:

Sirenia - _The 13th Floor_


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## Lady Grimdour

Until the band sobers up during events, DF is a shit band to watch live. Li messes up his usually mach-5 riffs badly.

I also suggest GnR (anything pre-Illusion sans ChinDem) if you wanna go technical. Slash and Buckethead deliver.


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## Tarvos

guns and roses suck

really bad

also df was entertaining thanx to them all being drunk they screw up alot tho


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## Retsu

why is GnR being recommended in a thread about metal


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## #1 bro

honestly guys, I'm not really too inclined to listen to AC/DC, Metallica, Iron Maiden, Guns 'N' Roses (are they even metal?) and such, because I kind of have those bands filed away in a little corner of my brain labeled "DOUCHEBAG MUSIC - DO NOT LISTEN". This isn't really anything that has to do with the bands themselves, but the fact that all these d-bags at my school are into that kind of stuff. Which I admit is a stupid reason to not listen to certain bands, but still. :| 

However, don't think that I'm not listening to your recommendations, because I am. I especially liked that one experimental band that someone talked about... can't remember what it was called now, but I heard a song by them and it rocked. \m/ (>_<) \m/

EDIT: looks like Retsu ninja'd me on the GnR being metal thing


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## Tarvos

Iron Maiden is worthy though.

Was it Unexpect?


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## Zuu

Probably, since Unexpect is so kickass. :3


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## Tarvos

Yeah they are good.


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## Lady Grimdour

Volbeat.

Pretty decent once you get used to the vocals.


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## Tarvos

Volbeat sucks. It's like weird metal 'n' roll and I don't like it.


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## Morbid

rock-ground said:


> Death metal:
> Morbid Angel - Blessed are the Sick
> Children of Bodom - Are You Dead Yet
> Morbid Angel - Heretic
> Dethklok - The Dethalbum
> Cannibal Corpse - Gallery of Suicide
> In Flames - Clayman
> In Flames - Come Clarity
> Cannibal Corpse - Vile
> Nile - In Their Darkened Shrines
> Children of Bodom - Blooddrunk


Bodom and In Flames are not death metal in any way. Not counting those some nice bands there (never heard Dethklok though), I would recommend not listening to Heretic or Darkened Shrines if you're new to death metal though as Heretic's production is very off putting and Darkened Shrines is very difficult to get into to start with. I can recommend Get Dead Or Die Trying by The Rotted for someone new to death metal - it's still heavy as hell and very awesome, but at the same time it's a lot more accessible than most albums without compromising the music. Awesome shit.


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## Tarvos

In Flames' old work (up to like colony/clayman) is death metal and then they went melodic and faggy but i still like them


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## #1 bro

Watershed said:


> Was it Unexpect?


yeah, that's who it was.


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## see ya

Watershed said:


> guns and roses suck
> 
> really bad


Off topic, but DEAR GOD THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR SAYING THIS!

On topic, I'm not a Metal person by any means, but if you like Dream Theater, you'll probably also like Operation: Mindcrime by Queensryche.


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## Tarvos

backing operation: mindcrime

awesome album


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## Teh Ebil Snorlax

Some of my preferred metal bands;

System of a Down, Scars on Broadway, Serj Tankian, Outcry Collective, Avenged Sevenfold, Cancer Bats, Linkin Park, KoRn, Slipknot, Papa Roach, Rammestein, Marilyn Manson, Bring Me the Horizon, Rolo Tomassi, Metallica, Trivium, Satyricon, Amon Amarth, Alexisonfire, Black Lungs and Wolverine.

Also, not really metal but Fair to Midland and God Is An Astronaut own.


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## Zuu

Teh Ebil Snorlax said:


> Some of my preferred metal bands;
> 
> System of a Down, Scars on Broadway, Serj Tankian, Outcry Collective, Avenged Sevenfold, Cancer Bats, Linkin Park, KoRn, Slipknot, Papa Roach, Rammestein, Marilyn Manson, Bring Me the Horizon, Rolo Tomassi, Metallica, Trivium, Satyricon, Amon Amarth, Alexisonfire, Black Lungs and Wolverine.
> 
> Also, not really metal but Fair to Midland and God Is An Astronaut own.


85% of those are either nu-metal, metalcore (which isn't metal), or hardcore (which also isn't metal). so I don't know where you're going with this.

also I have adopted this stance recently: if a song can bring three minutes of joy to one person's miserably short human existence, then it's probably good and I don't feel like bashing it.

except for rap. good god NO.


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## Tarvos

Amon Amarth and Rammstein are good though. Not listened to System of a Down in a while though, but they are also good. I like the new Trivium as well.


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## Retsu

Teh Ebil Snorlax said:


> Some of my preferred metal bands;
> 
> System of a Down, Scars on Broadway, Serj Tankian, Outcry Collective, Avenged Sevenfold, Cancer Bats, Linkin Park, KoRn, Slipknot, Papa Roach, Rammestein, Marilyn Manson, Bring Me the Horizon, Rolo Tomassi, Metallica, Trivium, Satyricon, Amon Amarth, Alexisonfire, Black Lungs and Wolverine.


I did you a favor and crossed out all of the bands that aren't metal.

Is it possible for people to be this stupid?


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## Tarvos

Rammstein are metal, and SoaD you can doubt, but otherwise correct.


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## Retsu

Rammstein most certainly aren't metal in the traditional sense... they follow some of the artistic conventions, but they are, at their heart, neue deutsche härte - which is an offshoot of electronic music, not metal.

But yeah, I see where you're coming from, and I guess they're heavy enough to be called "metal", but... it's just a pet peeve.


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## Tarvos

Iono, they call themselves Tanzmetall (German for dance metal), and I always qualify them as industrial metal (industrial being the electronic genre, and then metal). I always thought they just married both, so I considered them metal as well as industrial.


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## Retsu

Neue deutsche härte itself isn't metal, but the thing that really confuses people (including myself) is when bands like Rammstein and Oomph! add metal elements to it. But bands like L'Âme Immortelle, ASP, Letzte Instanz, etc. aren't metal.


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## Music Dragon

Retsu said:


> Is it possible for people to be this stupid?


No, but it's possible for them to lack your expertise.


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## Tarvos

Retsu said:


> Neue deutsche härte itself isn't metal, but the thing that really confuses people (including myself) is when bands like Rammstein and Oomph! add metal elements to it. But bands like L'Âme Immortelle, ASP, Letzte Instanz, etc. aren't metal.


No no, I agree, but Rammstein clearly are very metal-influenced, and so are Pain (industrial metal project of Peter Tagtgren, which I am incidentally gonna see this Friday)


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## Retsu

It's not a matter of having "expertise" or not. Those bands simply don't sound metal in any sense of the word - to the point where it's plainly obvious.


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## Tarvos

they sound like an industrial electronic subgenre really.


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## Retsu

I was replying to MD with that. :P


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## Tarvos

I know that.


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## Music Dragon

Retsu said:


> It's not a matter of having "expertise" or not. Those bands simply don't sound metal in any sense of the word - to the point where it's plainly obvious.


Well, yes, it may be plainly obvious to someone who, like you, is well-acquainted with the metal genre and takes music seriously. But I wouldn't accuse anyone of being stupid for considering Avenged Sevenfold and Slipknot metal.


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## Tarvos

They are technically metal, yes, but they're shit bands so not worth mentioning.


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## Zuu

Amon Amarth are fucking amazing.

Just so everyone knows.


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## Tarvos

they are pretty good yes but I am skipping out on seeing them in March


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## Zuu

aww why brah


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## Tarvos

cause they play on a shit day in a shit place which I can't reach quickly enough. i am finished at like 17:30 and the gig starts at 7 and I need to travel like an hour to get there and eat in the meanwhile

and the openers are Obituary, Keep of Kalessin and Legion of the Damned so there's no reason to miss out really.

that and I already have seen Amon Amarth when they opened for Slayer a while back.


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## Teh Ebil Snorlax

Retsu said:


> I did you a favor and crossed out all of the bands that aren't metal.
> 
> Is it possible for people to be this stupid?


Try distracted. I was a bit busy with some significantly more important things and I started confusing similar genres. And System are metal imho.


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## #1 bro

Teh Ebil Snorlax said:


> Try distracted. I was a bit busy with some significantly more important things and I started confusing similar genres. And System are metal imho.


This reeks of pathetic excuse. Why not just admit that you aren't quite sure of the exact boundaries between "metal" and "hard rock"? There's no shame in that...


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## Celestial Blade

Spineshank and Slipknot are EPIC metal!


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## Teh Ebil Snorlax

Zeta Reticuli said:


> This reeks of pathetic excuse. Why not just admit that you aren't quite sure of the exact boundaries between "metal" and "hard rock"? There's no shame in that...


If I was reading that comment from your point of view, I'd agree but I was actually, oddly enough for me, busy with quite a few things.


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## Tarvos

Celestial Blade said:


> Spineshank and Slipknot are EPIC metal!


just wait till you hear Slayer man



> If I was reading that comment from your point of view, I'd agree but I was actually, oddly enough for me, busy with quite a few things.


That is a pathetic excuse lol


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## Teh Ebil Snorlax

Fine, to avoid a big rigmarole, I am unsure of the boundaries between metal and hard rock.


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## Tarvos

Teh Ebil Snorlax said:


> Fine, to avoid a big rigmarole, I am unsure of the boundaries between metal and hard rock.


Good, because that's what everyone else is.


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## Retsu

Celestial Blade said:


> Spineshank and Slipknot are EPIC metal!


shut up and leave this thread


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## Tarvos

just because I can I'm going to recommend obscure metal nobody knows about

Windir
Deeds of Flesh
Vintersorg
Agalloch
Wolves in the Throne Room
Cult of Luna
Falconer

etc
etc
etc

that is real metal you fuckers


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## Retsu

I've heard of Cult of Luna and Agalloch and actually have listened to Falconer so there.

Still recommending Flowing Tears to absolutely everyone. Creative, interesting, and just an amazing band in general.


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## Zuu

Watershed said:


> just because I can I'm going to recommend obscure metal nobody knows about
> 
> Windir
> Deeds of Flesh
> Vintersorg
> Agalloch
> Wolves in the Throne Room
> Cult of Luna
> Falconer
> 
> etc
> etc
> etc
> 
> that is real metal you fuckers


Falconer has been one of my favorite band for a few years brah :O


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## Tarvos

yeah but you guys actually listen to metal


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## Zuu

k this thread is now about Falconer


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## Tarvos

falconer went gay when they lost Mathias Blad

Falconer needs Mathias to sound good


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## Zuu

oh you mean Grime vs Grandeur? yeah, Kristoffer or whatever his name was sucked.

glad Mathias came back for Northwind. OH HEY have you heard their newest album yet? I don't remember what it's called but I heard it's "heavier". I don't know if that's a good thing or not.


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## Tarvos

That's the only one I've heard tbh (the new one) and it is pretty damn wicked. Dunno how it compares to the others.


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## Music Dragon

Sweden has everything that's awesome.


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## Tarvos

They have Opeth, Pain of Salvation and Katatonia which are three of my favourite bands so yeah...

Also a lot of other good metal comes from Sweden... that country is a breeding ground for good metal.


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## Teh Ebil Snorlax

Where the wild metal herds roam the frozen tundra.


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## Music Dragon

Yes, the _frozen tundra_ of _Sweden_...


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## Tarvos

more like they walk through forests and burn down churches


OH WAIT THATS NORWAY SRY


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## Teh Ebil Snorlax

Music Dragon said:


> Yes, the _frozen tundra_ of _Sweden_...


http://www.thewildclassroom.com/expeditions/sweden/habitats/tundra.html


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## Music Dragon

Teh Ebil Snorlax said:


> http://www.thewildclassroom.com/expeditions/sweden/habitats/tundra.html


Well sure, but saying that there's tundra in Sweden is like that saying that there are sad people in Norway, or that there are Danes who can talk without puking, or that there are Finnish who don't love koskenkorva and salmiakki.


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## Teh Ebil Snorlax

You've lost me.


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## Tarvos

It's ridiculous stereotyping. 

Like what I did with Norwegian black metal.


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## Retsu

Music Dragon said:


> Sweden has everything that's awesome.


Draconian!


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## Teh Ebil Snorlax

Watershed said:


> It's ridiculous stereotyping.
> 
> Like what I did with Norwegian black metal.


How is it stereotyping when I know there to be tundra in Sweden?


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## Tarvos

Teh Ebil Snorlax said:


> How is it stereotyping when I know there to be tundra in Sweden?


there's tundra in norway too but why aren't you calling norway out

or finland
or russia
or canada
or the united states

plus obviously by and large not all of sweden is tundra

silly generalisation innit


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## Teh Ebil Snorlax

You were talking about Sweden in the previous post.


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## Zuu

Watershed said:


> That's the only one I've heard tbh (the new one) and it is pretty damn wicked. Dunno how it compares to the others.


ah
I have a few songs from their debut, I have all of Chapters From A Vale Forlorn, and all of Northwind. All great albums~ check them out

also since this has turned into like a metal recommendation thread, do you know of anything similar to Unexpect? 

while I'm at it, have you heard Immortal's _Sons of Northern Darkness_? I really like _Beyond the North Waves_ and I was wondering if you knew any bands that played particularly like that. but that's a wildly random question so I'm not really expecting an answer


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## #1 bro

guys guys guys

what is THE #1 all time greatest most hardcore rockin' awesome virtuoso-tastic metal album that I should get first, before any other album? 

and I don't mean "what is the greatest classic of the genre", just to clear that up


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## Zuu

ADVANCE AND VANQUISH

RUST IN PEACE

actually I have no idea as that's going to vary greatly from person to person @_@


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## Retsu

If you like Unexpect, give Diablo Swing Orchestra a try. Stolen Babies, Sleepytime Gorilla Museum, Unexpect, and DSO are all very similar.


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## Zuu

I've been meaning to listen to SGM, but I keep forgetting the name hurr. Also I have Stolen Babies, but it's not quite as "We all have schizophrenia" as Unexpect.


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## #1 bro

Dezzuu said:


> actually I have no idea as that's going to vary greatly from person to person @_@


no, yeah, I understand that

just give me your opinion


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## Zuu

in my personal opinion, _Northwind_ from Falconer is a near perfect album.

take my advice with a grain of salt though


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## Retsu

oh god I'm listening to Disturbed and I actually sort of like it @__@ someone smack me


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## see ya

Claydol girl said:


> oh god I'm listening to Disturbed and I actually sort of like it @__@ someone smack me


Is it sad that I actually like their cover of "Land of Confusion" by Genesis better than the original?

And don't bring up the In Flames cover. Way to mutilate the song, guys. If it weren't for the title, I wouldn't have known it was even a cover.


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## Ether's Bane

Claydol girl said:


> oh god I'm listening to Disturbed and I actually sort of like it


RG approves.


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## Music Dragon

Teh Ebil Snorlax said:


> You've lost me.


I mean, you _could_ say there's tundra in Sweden - or that there are sad people in Norway, or that there are Danes who can talk without puking, or that there are Finnish who don't love koskenkorva and salmiakki... but nobody's going to take you seriously!



Teh Ebil Snorlax said:


> How is it stereotyping when I know there to be tundra in Sweden?


"Rawr rawr rawr"... No one understands you, she-bear!


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## Retsu

rock-ground said:


> RG approves.


This is why I'm upset @__@


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## Tarvos

Zeta there is no clear-cut awesome metal masterpiece. I guess it's like a Slayer record for some people, and it's a fucking Opeth record for other people.

Blackwater Park by Opeth is a good place to start.

Also, in addition to what Retsu mentioned, Faith No More, Mr. Bungle, Dog Fashion Disco, Dillinger Escape Plan...


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## Retsu

I was going to say Dog Fashion Disco but I wasn't sure if they were really metal or not.


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## Tarvos

they count as metal to me though there is a bunch of stuff in there


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## #1 bro

I've never even heard of this "Dog Fashion Disco", but I like what I'm hearing. Any specific albums I should get?


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## Tarvos

I only have a compilation album I got sent by their label, you're gonna have to dig into their back catalog for that.


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## Vyraura

I'm surprised nobody mentioned Silence or Sirenia. Well furret mentioned the 13th floor but I'm afraid to see what Veland has come up with fucking _Ailyn_ in the band since Nine Destinies was as bad as Elixer was good. 

heck I'll just list all the albums I like and I'd guess other people would like without having to have the same-tuned ears as I do.

Sirenia - _At Sixes and Sevens_ 
Amon Amarth - _Twilight of the Thunder God_
Nightwish - Anything pre-Dark Passion Play but _Once _and _Century __Child _are amazing
Royal Hunt - _The Mission_ (okay it's weird shut up I hate most prog but I like this)
Sonata Arctica - _Silence, Ecliptica_ the further you go the weirder and less power-metal it gets, but _For the Sake of Revenge_ and _Reckoning Night_ are cool.
Danzig - _Danzig_ This probably doesn't count as metal but I'm putting it here anyway
Turisas - They only have two albums so try _Battle Metal_
Blind Guardian - _Nightfall in Middle Earth_

also 4 pages late but it looks like Dragonforce is actually starting to act seriously live if you look at the yt vids of their belfast performance there's much less dickery on the stage, which is nice to see.


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## Retsu

Ailyn is surprisingly good. She's no Fabienne or Henriette obviously, but she's eons ahead of Monika.


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## Tarvos

DF were shit when I saw them like... iono, two weeks ago?

Danzig counts as really good

Royal Hunt are a good band as well.


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## Vyraura

well that's why I specifically mentioned belfast
there was still much fuckery like licking the guitar and waving at the crowd during solos but they're learning

also furret do you have a 13th Floor torrent? I put uTorrent instead of bearshare on this new laptop.


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## Retsu

I found it on a private torrent site I go to, but mininova has quite a few results:

http://www.mininova.org/search/?search=the+13th+floor


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## Vyraura

Doesn't work, and I didn't find it on the other torrent links there :/


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## Retsu

What do you mean, doesn't work? o.o There are at least four torrents listed there with a decent amount of seeders.


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## Vyraura

The link said 'maintenence' and 'The 13th Floor' got no results on the torrent links they suggested.


EDIT: tried it a few more times, it works now


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## Tarvos

I saw the audio autopsy at Global Domination for Sirenia and it got a 2.25/10 average and the owner of the site likes chick metal bands so....


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## Vyraura

...they were reviewing the recent albums, I see.


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## Retsu

Watershed said:


> I saw the audio autopsy at Global Domination for Sirenia and it got a 2.25/10 average and the owner of the site likes chick metal bands so....


Good thing we don't base our opinions off those of a single person, right?

eta: review of T13F http://arcaneretsu.livejournal.com/


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## Tarvos

Claydol girl said:


> Good thing we don't base our opinions off those of a single person, right?
> 
> eta: review of T13F http://arcaneretsu.livejournal.com/


The audio autopsy features FOUR people reviewing the album and the unanimous decision is that it sucks....


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## Retsu

Obviously _The 13th Floor_ isn't going to appeal to everyone. Goth elistists will still hate the poppiness, and _9DAAD_ fans will hate it because it's not as hollow and uninspired as that album.


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## Tarvos

funny because these four are neither... i don't know I don't listen to Sirenia I have no interest in this goth pop "metal"


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## Retsu

What are you trying to prove?


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## Tarvos

nothing except you are all like SIRENIA ARE GOOD but they are barely fucken metal as it is

recommend some metal that doesn't have chicks would ya


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## Retsu

Watershed said:


> nothing except you are all like SIRENIA ARE GOOD but they are barely fucken metal as it is


... How are they not metal? Also, I never said "SIRENIA ARE GOOD." I would never use the word "are" after a band name. ;)



> recommend some metal that doesn't have chicks would ya


I hate to break it to you, but I _enjoy female vocalists in music_. This reflects through my recommendations. Nobody's forcing you to even acknowledge them ?_?

(also, you are implying that male vocalists are somehow superior?)


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## Tarvos

Claydol girl said:


> ... How are they not metal? Also, I never said "SIRENIA ARE GOOD." I would never use the word "are" after a band name. ;)


both are perfectly acceptable grammatically.

how are they metal? because they have distorted guitars and wear fishnet stockings? to me it's just another version of Evanescence, except now the guitars sound louder!




> I hate to break it to you, but I _enjoy female vocalists in music_. This reflects through my recommendations. Nobody's forcing you to even acknowledge them ?_?
> 
> (also, you are implying that male vocalists are somehow superior?)


I like chick vocals, just, this is a thread about metal and I'd rather people remind metal and good metal and not shit overdone "female-fronted" "metal" bands. Let's keep it to the real metal, shall we? 

were it a general rec thread I'd have let you off the hook though

also there's a difference between the metal you're talking about and say Arch Enemy, Doro, etc


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## Retsu

Watershed said:


> both are perfectly acceptable grammatically.
> 
> how are they metal? because they have distorted guitars and wear fishnet stockings? to me it's just another version of Evanescence, except now the guitars sound louder!


Your definition of "metal" is quite twisted. By definition, any genre must follow a number of artistic conventions, such as (in the case of metal) amplified distortion (check), extended guitar solos (check), emphatic beats (check), overall loudness (check). You don't get to make your own definition of something that's already been established, thanks.

And I do consider Evanescence metal.



> I like chick vocals, just, this is a thread about metal and I'd rather people remind metal and good metal and not shit overdone "female-fronted" "metal" bands. Let's keep it to the real metal, shall we?


hahahahahaha what
since when is your definition of "good metal" the same as everyone else's

I'm all for looking at music objectively but there has to be a line drawn somewhere. The music I'm recommending fits the definition of metal quite well.



> were it a general rec thread I'd have let you off the hook though


Gee glad to know you would have _let me off the hook_



> also there's a difference between the metal you're talking about and say Arch Enemy, Doro, etc


Yes, those bands are on the heavier side of the spectrum while mine are on the other end. Once again, I'm all for looking at music objectively but there has to be a line drawn somewhere.


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## Tarvos

what the fuck metal doesn't need solos have you ever heard Neurosis and friends



> Your definition of "metal" is quite twisted. By definition, any genre must follow a number of artistic conventions, such as (in the case of metal) amplified distortion (check), extended guitar solos (check), emphatic beats (check), overall loudness (check). You don't get to make your own definition of something that's already been established, thanks.


Actually, metal goes a LOT further than just these overall characteristics. Metal goes back to the fucking tritone, the use of the power chord, and is actually rooted in blues. If you wanna argue the theory, yeah, Sirenia use power chords. Yes, there are drums that you can consider remotely metal. But punk uses power chords: are punk bands metal? fuck no. 

Metalcore maybe? Fuck no.

Nu-metal? fuck no.

All of these bands clearly fit your characteristics. See, there's the flaw in your argument. I don't consider that shit metal. It takes more than playing power chords and knowing what a pentatonic scale is to be metal. By your definition, everything from Linkin Park to Coheed and Cambria to Trivium to As I Lay Dying are metal, and I don't consider these bands metal at all. Having power chords and distortion does NOT make you fucken metal. Else Shakira is metal, and jesus, you wanna argue that?

I'm not talking quality here, even. I like Coheed for example, and you know I like stuff outside of metal. But I gotta draw a fucking line, and though there's something to be said for the chick cumdumpster (God, I love GD terminology) goth bands to be metal, there's also something to be said for "metal descended from Black Sabbath". Then bands suddenly started SHOO-RUKING their dicks off and fucking around with synth orchestration and tuning down to Z flat and you know... I gotta draw a fucking line here. I really have to. 

Just because you're using some superficial media-approved metal characteristics, it doesn't make you fucking metal.



> hahahahahaha what
> since when is your definition of "good metal" the same as everyone else's


I consider image a part of metal as well. And fuck me, Sirenia's image is not metal. It's Hot Topic poser goth. I'm better than that, and I hope you are too.



> I'm all for looking at music objectively but there has to be a line drawn somewhere. The music I'm recommending fits the definition of metal quite well.


To use another person's words: "I should like this shit, but I got _some_ limits". I can think of a better definition. And yes, it involves penises and vaginas. 



> Yes, those bands are on the heavier side of the spectrum while mine are on the other end. Once again, I'm all for looking at music objectively but there has to be a line drawn somewhere.


Doro is not REMOTELY on the heavy end of the spectrum. Doro was in Warlock and she's been around since the 80s. Man, fuck, she's like, what, 40? 50? That skank's been around forever. Only she plays real metal.


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## Retsu

> I consider image a part of metal as well.


Your post was really good and convincing until I read this. So if Sirenia changes their image, they'll be metal?


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## Tarvos

Claydol girl said:


> Your post was really good and convincing until I read this. So if Sirenia changes their image, they'll be metal?


Depends if they do a full on makeover and play convincing metal. Considering it's Sirenia, doubt they can pull over a cloak. I mean, Sirenia suddenly riding motorcycles and drinking beer and shit, you think they can do that? I don't think so? I just think it'd be the same shitty old car with a new paint job. Image is projected by integrity. And protected by integrity. If Sirenia suddenly started doing that, you could make a case for them being metal; but even then you could ask whether they're doing that because they want to pander to a different crowd (and therefore sell to other people), or because they actually genuinely want to play that music. And I, I don't think they do or they can. They want to make heavy pop music. Same thing Tarja did in Nightwish, which is why she is gone now. Nightwish had to preserve their honesty. Whether Anette is to everyone's tastes is something else, and I don't think Anette sounds all that metal (and Nightwish are semi-metal musically anyway). But the other band members are clearly rooted in metal, in some very good metal as well; Tuomas claims the 3rd and the Mortal and Tiamat and such as influences, so, you know... And from what I gather, Anette is a VERY genuine personality. Image is being GENUINE about what you like. I think I should have worded it differently. I like metal bands that are genuine. Maybe this explains it better?

Look being metal is a sort of feeling as well. It's playing the music, but it's also the culture, the lifestyle, you know, there's a whole different level to it. Sirenia fit in that little sub niche where the "gothic" subgenre (but they sound nothing like Gothic music, whence another debate...) I mean, this is nothing or other. This just drifts somewhere between trying to write catchy rock melodies and trying to be dark so you can sell to a part of the population that totally kicks on things that are "dark" and "gothic" and "spooky". It just hits a vacuum between trying to be heavy, trying to be melodic, and trying to be ambient and atmospheric. I guess you could say in all these bands there is a "metal influence", and then you'd probably be right. But you can't you know consider Sirenia metal unless they actually live the whole thing out.

I know in some cases the borderlines get really fucking tedious. Rammstein for example, they have this problem too: clearly there is a huge Metallica and Pantera influence there, but are they metal? I don't know, there's a KMFDM and such influence as well. Are they industrial? They don't stick to a lot of particular conventions of that genre either. So what are they? In Rammstein's case, I'm tempted to say they're metal because I think in their sound and in their image and in the way they project themselves to their audience, they are pretty metal and they are very authentic. But you can of course argue the other side of the equation.

Well stuff like Sirenia has the same problem. I'm a bit bored of the hype over all these kinds of bands, so I'm tempted to take shots at every single one of them every once in a while just because I can because it's getting annoying to see every sixteen year old kid wearing a fucking Within Temptation or Tristania or whatever fucking band shirt when you know, they probably don't know who Carcass are, or Bathory, or Celtic Frost, or Watchtower. I really have to draw lines because even though I am not that old or anything (I wish I'd been there in the 80s to hear Anthrax or Slayer) but you know, the scene is so much more than these hyped "metal" bands when real metal as it originated sounds nothing like those modern female fronted metal bands at all. I know metal has split and branched and for some bands in the genre, I mean, say, Draconian, I can think that in their case you could say there is a case they are actually metal (the Opeth and My Dying Bride influences are huge).

In this case, the genre Sirenia would be closest to (doom metal, really, although just playing heavy metal slower does not make you doom metal; Sirenia don't sound like Candlemass), I mean, doom metal bands are still different from what Sirenia does. I don't like the term gothic metal a lot, though I understand why people use it; it's a mix of gothic music and metal, but since when do Sirenia sound like a cross between Bauhaus and any metal band  (which metal band anyway? Iron Maiden? Metallica? Candlemass? Solitude Aeternus?). No. They don't. They sound like a cross between pop music and metal music, and I can see the appeal in that: catchy melodies and it's still heavy in a way; but don't confuse the two. 

Seriously, Retsu, I respect the fact you like female vocalists in metal and I know where you're going with this, and actually, I don't hold a grudge against chick vocalists at all like some metalhead elitists do, but I do agree with them that I have to draw some genre lines, and that of course that the genre lines are by no means a 100% guarantee for what I enjoy musically.


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## Retsu

So what is Sirenia if not metal?


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## Tarvos

Claydol girl said:


> So what is Sirenia if not metal?


I made an edit, I hope that explains it better for you. It's a wall of text now though :*

In short, I think Sirenia are close to what you could call pop metal (doubt that is a genre). It's a bit hard to get a general term for all these kinds of bands, so people slot them under metal and people slot them under rock and people slot them wherever but I generally just go with they're basically rock bands with bonus distortion. I don't know really. I guess you *could* peg them as metal but I really think we should make up some umbrella term for these kind of bands that hover on the borderline.

You know, to me, it's falling between the ship and the quay. It's the grey genre-defining area. Sirenia are in the middle.


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## Vyraura

I agree with altmer as long as he's only referring to the newest albums, because the extremely mainstream radio songs such as My Mind's Eye sound ABSOLUTELY CAPS-LOCK NOTHING like any of the ones from previous albums that is what I associate 'Sirenia' with. So I'm a bit confused as to agree or not with you, but since the whole discussion was based off The 13th Floor I'm guessing I'd be agreeing.


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## Tarvos

yeah afaik the earlier stuff was better


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## Vyraura

It was, I'm pretty sure Lethargica, Meridian, A Shadow Of Your Own Self and Sister Nightfall make up some of the best (Norwegian) goth in existence. Although not like that's a particularly prolific genre.


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## Retsu

For me, At Sixes and Sevens > The 13th Floor > Nine Destinies and a Downfall > An Elixir for Existence.

Tristania, Trail of Tears, and Theatre of Tragedy are all waaaaay ahead of Sirenia though.


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## Tarvos

THE THIRD AND THE FUCKING MORTAL

JESUS

(continue discussion)


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