# Legendary Pokemon Population Conspiracy



## SapphSabre777 (Jan 19, 2012)

Right now, I am engaged in a conflict. As many fans are aware of, Pokemon are all around us and are abundant...except legendary Pokemon. I have a firm belief that certain legendary Pokemon are rare, but in numbers. I am but one person, so I need some feedback of this situation, as well as some Pokemon that are likely abundant.


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## shy ♡ (Jan 19, 2012)

There's three legendary pokemon right here.


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## Dialga Of Time (Jan 19, 2012)

Yes, me being one of them. I am *the* TCoD Dialga.


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## sv_01 (Jan 19, 2012)

Besides Phione... There are multiple Lugia in the anime, and some other legendaries in there probably weren't the only ones. But I think it's an invention of the anime, which is weird in general. (I think there is only one Lugia, she is involved with Ho-oh and they have three children which are the Bird Trio, but this stuff is even less official.) But Deoxys... There might be more of them.


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## Momo(th) (Jan 19, 2012)

There is obviously multiple Latios and Latias in the anime. Also, there is only 1 Mewtwo, seeing as the data for him were destroyed in his rage in the first movie. Thee is 1 Arceus. So we got a few out of the way:)
Seeing as there is the pokedex to support this, Entei seems to have a (albeit incredibly small) population as a new one forms into being when a volcano erupts, but nothing like this applies for Raikou and Entei. What I believe about Deoxys is that there is an entire planet of them.
Anyone else have more theories?


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## M&F (Jan 19, 2012)

It seems more plausible for some to be multiple than others.

I mean, if there were multiple Groudon and Kyogre, the Pokémon World would be insane; however, nothing really impedes the multiplicity of less god-powerful legendaries, such as Heatran or the elemental trios from the first two generations.

It may be noteworthy that multiple Phione in Pokémon Mystery Dungeon -- eight of them appear on-screen at one time, even.


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## RespectTheBlade (Jan 19, 2012)

It's obvious that there are multiple Cresellia, Heatran, and Regigigas, as Palmer owns them and battles with them. Using this logic also says there are multiple of any battle-frontier permitted legendary, as rentals are given out to any trainers.


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## Wargle (Jan 20, 2012)

The amount of Entei and Heatran are related. iirc they are both born when a volcano erupts, and Entei roaring causes a volcano to erupt so...


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## alexguy100 (Jan 20, 2012)

i think there might be more than one Ho-oh but palkia and dialga are one of a kinds and definatley more than one bird trio


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## M&F (Jan 20, 2012)

RespectTheBlade said:


> It's obvious that there are multiple Cresellia, Heatran, and Regigigas, as Palmer owns them and battles with them. Using this logic also says there are multiple of any battle-frontier permitted legendary, as rentals are given out to any trainers.


This would imply: Latias, Articuno, Zapdos, Moltres, Regirock, Regice, Registeel, Suicune, Entei and Latios, as well as the three you mentioned.

Regigigas' Pokédex entries seem to imply there's only one, though.


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## 1. Luftballon (Jan 20, 2012)

Wargle said:


> The amount of Entei and Heatran are related. iirc they are both born when a volcano erupts, and Entei roaring causes a volcano to erupt so...


heatran, no.

yes, that is how entei reproduce, they asex by roaring. I wonder what that does to genetic variation within the species.


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## M&F (Jan 20, 2012)

sreservoir said:


> heatran, no.
> 
> yes, that is how entei reproduce, they asex by roaring. I wonder what that does to genetic variation within the species.


Probably why they're not very common, I wager.


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## DarkAura (Jan 20, 2012)

There is more than one Lugia. There was a Johto episode having a Lugia and her Lugia baby, so this implies there are many Lugia in the world, that are able to reproduce with each other.

Yeah, there are Phiones in one place in PMD.

Of course, there are many Latios and Latias. Watch the end of the movie that they appeared in.

Celebi is kind of difficult to know. In the Pokemon 4ever movie, there were many Celebi coming to heal the dead Celebi, but they could have been from the past and/or future.

So, some legendaries have more than one of themselves, but others do not.


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## Monoking (Jan 20, 2012)

Actually, it's my belief there were about 30 Celebi at the beginning the Universe, and their population has slowly descreased. Same with Mew, but Mew did more drastically.


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## Blastoise Fortooate (Jan 20, 2012)

sreservoir said:


> yes, that is how entei reproduce, they asex by roaring. I wonder what that does to genetic variation within the species.


If someone asked me to describe sreservoir in two sentences I would show them this.

Regigigas, I think, would be one for each trio of Regis, of which there is one in each important natural landmark (that crystal tree) and one main trio in each region. The most powerful Regi trio, the one in Hoenn, had to be separated from their regigigas.

There's a manaphy for each sea and several dozen phione that follow it about.

One heatran per volcano.


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## M&F (Jan 20, 2012)

Blastoise Fortooate said:


> If someone asked me to describe sreservoir in two sentences I would show them this.
> 
> Regigigas, I think, would be one for each trio of Regis, of which there is one in each important natural landmark (that crystal tree) and one main trio in each region. The most powerful Regi trio, the one in Hoenn, had to be separated from their regigigas.
> 
> ...


This theory about Hoenn's Regis definitely fits the text braille encountered in the Sealed Chamber.

"In this cave we have lived. We owe all to the Pokémon. But, we sealed the Pokémon away. We feared it. Those with courage, those with hope. Open a door. An eternal Pokémon waits."

A running theory is that this refers to Regigigas (well, A Regigigas) -- if it were referring to the other Regis, it would read "we feared _them_", among other grammatical differences. It's highly viable that the eventual Ruby/Sapphire remakes shed further light into this -- they would provide an excellent chance to meet Hoenn's Regigigas. HG/SS did give the player a shot at Hoenn's trio, so, it's not much of a stretch.


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## Dar (Jan 20, 2012)

Richie said:


> Actually, it's my belief there were about 30 Celebi at the beginning the Universe, and their population has slowly descreased. Same with Mew, but Mew did more drastically.


This explains why Mew made so many more pokemon: It got lonely.


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## Superbird (Jan 20, 2012)

There was originally only one celebi. Then it started travelling through time, and thus there is a seperate incarnation of Celebi for every time it has at one point occupied. All of these can travel through time.

Or at least, that's how I see it, time paradoxes. Probably doesn't work that way with Dialga, 'cause Dialga controls the stuff more.


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## M&F (Jan 20, 2012)

Cubone said:


> This explains why Mew made so many more pokemon: It got lonely.


If I recall correctly, Mew wasn't an outright creator, but rather, a wide-range common ancestor.


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## sv_01 (Jan 20, 2012)

I just realized that some of the Battle Tower NPC allies have legendaries. That means there is more of these legendaries:
The Latis
Cresselia
Regirock (and presumably the rest of the trio)




sreservoir said:


> yes, that is how entei reproduce, they asex by roaring. I wonder what that does to genetic variation within the species.


The genetic variation is caused by the volcanoes.


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## Monoking (Jan 20, 2012)

Mr. Fancy Pants said:


> If I recall correctly, Mew wasn't an outright creator, but rather, a wide-range common ancestor.


Actually, according to Archeisim, Arecus and Mew both created the world's Pokemon together.  Except for Porygon, Bannette, and Voltorb. And their evolutions, who were created by other means. And the Clefairy line and Deoxys came from space, of course.
(It's suggested Mew dealt more with moves and the personalities of Pokemon, though.)


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## Autumn (Jan 20, 2012)

Richie said:


> Except for Porygon, Bannette, and Voltorb.


Grimer? Kadabra? :P


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## SapphSabre777 (Jan 20, 2012)

Hrmm...There is a possibility that there are multiple Zekrom, and POSSIBLY Reshiram and Kyurem. Remember in the anime Ash encountered a Zekrom. Then in M14 (?), a Zekrom was owned by Damon, (or Ash, pending in the movie). The fact that the Zekrom did not recognize Ash meant that it had to be different, and in order for there to be balance, there must be multiples of the others.

*pant* *pant* I'm done venting my curiousity and my theory.


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## sv_01 (Jan 20, 2012)

Polymetric Sesquialtera said:


> Richie said:
> 
> 
> > Except for Porygon, Bannette, and Voltorb.
> ...


All Ghost-type lines and inanimate Poison-types. Also Steel-types that are based on machines. And Psychics based on ancient artifacts.



But according to me, the creators were Arceus and Giratina. And in the case of Unova, Giratina only helped create Meloetta. Arceus created most of the region with the help of Regigigas.


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## Nanabshuckle8 (Jan 21, 2012)

Well, lets see... There are probably multiple Articuno/Zapdos/Moltres, since their "master" appearently can have babies. Mew is a peculiar case, but perhaps Arceus created it after Dialga, Palkia and Giratina, like the first form of life, you know, like the earliest forms of life, those small one-cell thingies, only more pink and cuddly. Right, so ancestor, hmm, I'd say there's only one Mew, or just a few, like 5 in the whole world. Obviously only one Mewtwo.

As the polar opposite of Lugia, it makes sense that there are multiple Ho-ohs as well. Same goes for the Beasts. Entei definately reproduce through roaring. Yes. Celebi is a tricky one, either there's only one who travels through time and helps itself, but that just seems confusing and stuff so I'm gonna go with multiple ones, but not that many, as mentioned before, something in the area of 20-30.

Multiple Golems, including Regigigas. There are probably multiple Eons too, "brother" and "sister" = genders = breeding. Now we get to some big ones. Quite obviously only one of each in the Weather Trio, as their powers are too great to be shared with others. I honstly don't have a clue on Jirachi, did it come from space? Though the whole "asleep for a millennium" thing could explain a few things if there are many. Deoxys comes from space and there are obviously many of them, but I'd like to take this further and say that another planet also has "pokemon" or similar creatures and that they sent out Deoxys as the perfect scout due to its forms, made clearly for survival. Oh, and just cuz it comes from space doesn't make it a legendary, but it's cool enough I guess.

Only one of each Lake Guardian, obviously only one of each part of the Creation Trio. Multiple Lunar Duos, I guessing multiple Manaphys (Guessing = I have no idea what so ever) and Phiones, as well as many Heatrans and Shaymins. And of course only one Arceus.

I think there are many Victinis and Meloettas, but only one Kami trio and only one of each Musketeer. The Tao trio is odd, their power are basically buffed up versions of the Birds, but with the lack of knowledge of Kyurem it's really hard to tell, so I'll let that rest. Genesect is not a legend! I will not accept it. How does taking a prehistoric giant bug and crossing it with a car make a pokemon legendary? That said, it shouldn't be able to "breed", and it's probably the only one, which is a good thing. *shivers*

Conclusion:
Multiple:Bird Trio and Lugia, Legendary Beasts and Ho-oh, Celebi, Regis, Lati@s, Deoxys, Cresselia and Darkrai, Heatran, Shaymin, Victini, Meloetta.

Only One:Mew, Mewtwo, Weather Trio, Lake Trio, Creation Trio and Arceus, Kami trio.

Unknown: Jirachi, Manaphy, Tao Trio.


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## Luxcario (Jan 21, 2012)

Richie said:


> Actually, it's my belief there were about 30 Celebi at the beginning the Universe, and their population has slowly descreased. Same with Mew, but Mew did more drastically.


...I thought there was one Mew.

But that damned 1st generaton glitch seems to think there are loads of Mew for the damn trainers to go and glitch and catch.


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## Autumn (Jan 21, 2012)

luxcario said:


> But that damned 1st generaton glitch seems to think there are loads of Mew for the damn trainers to go and glitch and catch.


That glitch is the best don't you be hatin' >:/


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## M&F (Jan 21, 2012)

Richie said:


> Actually, according to Archeisim, Arecus and Mew both created the world's Pokemon together.  Except for Porygon, Bannette, and Voltorb. And their evolutions, who were created by other means. And the Clefairy line and Deoxys came from space, of course.
> (It's suggested Mew dealt more with moves and the personalities of Pokemon, though.)


Arceus is never directly stated to have created any species; it created the universe and most likely originated Palkia, Dialga and Giratina, but otherwise, the statement that it was responsible for any other such origination doesn't seem very likely, at least not for me.

Also, only tangentially related, but worth mentioning: it's kind of a pet peeve of mine when Arceus is treated as a Pokémon equivalent of the Christian God. It's not; at what point is it shown to be omnipotent, omniscient and/or omnipresent? Being a creating deity doesn't imply ultimate power, much as it may imply large amounts of it.



Nanabshuckle8 said:


> I honstly don't have a clue on Jirachi, did it come from space? Though the whole "asleep for a millennium" thing could explain a few things if there are many.


A single one is already powerful enough to wreck basic rules of reality (being able to grant pretty much any wish and all); more than one might be a stretch, with that in mind.



Nanabshuckle8 said:


> Deoxys comes from space and there are obviously many of them, but I'd like to take this further and say that another planet also has "pokemon" or similar creatures and that they sent out Deoxys as the perfect scout due to its forms, made clearly for survival. Oh, and just cuz it comes from space doesn't make it a legendary, but it's cool enough I guess.


Clefairy come from space just the same and they aren't legendary, mind you. Overall, the term "legendary" is fairly arbitrary, as there's hardly a common link other than rarity, power and ability to breed, and even that last one doesn't always hold up with much consistency.

Also, the idea of Deoxys being an interplanetary scout is quite interesting. Perhaps the forme-changing meteorites were "sent" over when Deoxys' "superiors" found that it was having trouble changing formes at will in this planet/galaxy/dimension?



Nanabshuckle8 said:


> I think there are many Victinis and Meloettas, but only one Kami trio and only one of each Musketeer.


Any particular reason for the Musketeer trio/quartet? They strike me as the sort of Pokémon that exists in multiples, personally.



Nanabshuckle8 said:


> Genesect is not a legend! I will not accept it. How does taking a prehistoric giant bug and crossing it with a car make a pokemon legendary? That said, it shouldn't be able to "breed", and it's probably the only one, which is a good thing. *shivers*


As I've stated earlier, the idea of "legendary" is by and at large arbitrary anyway. And I'd be willing to guess that the original species existed in multiples, but only one Genesect as we know it exists, for reasons similar to that of Mewtwo.


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## Shiny Grimer (Jan 21, 2012)

I usually look at this from the perspective of the games as I don't follow the anime and their canon is kind of different from the game canon. Also, the different game series have different canons (Pokemon Mystery Dungeon and the main series) so I'll just look at the main series games.

In-game, there appears to be one of each legendary. The story of how Raikou, Suicune, and Entei were created is that they were three Pokemon that died in the burned tower but Ho-oh revived them; as such, I always thought it made sense that they were one of a kind. I don't really pay attention to the Pokedex entry for Entei and I've always assumed it to be a legend (the Pokedex is notoriously unreliable, after all). The same goes for Ho-oh and Lugia; I don't really have any evidence for it, but I just feel it makes sense for there to be one of each.

Being that Manaphy comes from an egg, I suppose it's plausible there could be multiple Manaphy, but here we enter the question of "What laid the Manaphy egg?". After all, Manaphy can only produce Phione, not more Manaphy. Multiple Phione is very plausible, though I can't imagine Manaphy and Ditto getting it on that often.

Ultimately I admit I really like the idea of there being just one of each legendary, and so in my head-canon I always interpret it like that. I'm open to the idea of there being multiples of some of the lesser legendaries, though.


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## Nanabshuckle8 (Jan 21, 2012)

Mr. Fancy Pants said:


> A single one is already powerful enough to wreck basic rules of reality (being able to grant pretty much any wish and all); more than one might be a stretch, with that in mind.
> 
> Clefairy come from space just the same and they aren't legendary, mind you. Overall, the term "legendary" is fairly arbitrary, as there's hardly a common link other than rarity, power and ability to breed, and even that last one doesn't always hold up with much consistency.
> 
> ...


As stated about Jirachi, I really have no idea, but wasn't it so that the wishing just made it teleport stuff? I know it did that at least once in the movie, which makes me wonder why Butler didn't just wish for a Groudon instead of going through all that trouble of opening the eye and so on.

I don't really have a reason for the muketeers, other than that they are based of three particular individuals, and in-game they just seem to be one of a kind. It's probably because we have a bit too little information about them, no anime apearences, movie ain't out yet etc. I agree on the Genesect thing, there were probably many of them before, but I still can't even imagine what it looked like with all of those mechanical parts.
And you changed your name to Mr Fancy Pants! 8D *High Fives*


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## M&F (Jan 21, 2012)

Nanabshuckle8 said:


> I agree on the Genesect thing, there were probably many of them before, but I still can't even imagine what it looked like with all of those mechanical parts.


I picture the original species as being similar to Genesect in form, except, of course, with a more natural carapace instead of that purple armour. And also sans enormous cannon.

Since it's proeficient with flying (albeit jetpack flying instead of wing flying), I'd assume it was originally Bug/Flying. Its current lack of wings may owe to the fact that the original wings were likely much less hardy than the rest of the body, and as such, were lost and couldn't be restored by Team Plasma.


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## Superbird (Jan 22, 2012)

Genesect was indeed probably in multiples, back when it was natural. It was also probably something like a prehistoric Scyther. Wait, maybe Scyther evolved from prehistoric Genesect.

Present Genesect is definitely one-of-a-kind, though, because only one fossil was recovered. This whole thing has me thinking about someone sending out an Armaldo or something against Genesect and the two recognizing each other.


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## M&F (Jan 22, 2012)

Superbird said:


> This whole thing has me thinking about someone sending out an Armaldo or something against Genesect and the two recognizing each other.


As in, you've seen this somewhere, or you're having this idea now?

Also, in relation to Arceus: according to TV Tropes Wiki (and, thus, perhaps indirectly from another source), Arceus created the universe, then the dragon trio, then the lake trio, and after this, it went into slumber atop the Hall of Origin. Which would mean it didn't create other Pokémon.


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## Blastoise Fortooate (Jan 22, 2012)

The way I see it, the lake trio combined their ~mind powers~ to create Mew, who created other mew and the rest of the pokémon.


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## M&F (Jan 22, 2012)

Also, another thought on Genesect.

So far, most people have regarded its signature move as a joke. It looks like it's just a severly wimpened-up version of Judgment...

... But plot-wise, that resemblance takes on an entire different meaning. Perhaps the scientist who brought Genesect back was aiming for the ability to use Judgement? I'd call it playing God if, you know, Arceus had anything to do with God.


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## hopeandjoy (Jan 22, 2012)

Maybe they thought they could channel the creating powers of Arceus and create some legendaries for Ghetis?


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## M&F (Jan 22, 2012)

hopeandjoy said:


> Maybe they thought they could channel the creating powers of Arceus and create some legendaries for Ghetis?


It definitely sounds like Ghetsis, trying to create a legendary.


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## Superbird (Jan 22, 2012)

Mr. Fancy Pants said:


> As in, you've seen this somewhere, or you're having this idea now?


having the idea.


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## Momo(th) (Jan 22, 2012)

Well, there is obviously 1 Reshiram and 1 Zekrom. Seeing as Kyurem is possibly an alien, there might just be a planet were Deoxys and Kyurem live together.


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## Dar (Jan 22, 2012)

Chibispore said:


> Seeing as Kyurem is possibly an alien, there might just be a planet were Deoxys and Kyurem live together.


I dont believe this is true. As stated in some official pokemon thing (I believe it was the Pokedex) Kyurem used to be a regular dragon, but its energy got out of control, and it froze itself. So there are more than one of Kyurem's species, but only one Kyurem that we know of.


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## Zero Moment (Jan 22, 2012)

Kyurem, Reshiram, and Zekrom used to be one dragon. Then, one day, it split, creating Zekrom, personifying yin, and Reshiram, personifying yang. Kyurem was what was left of the dragon, and was the personification of wuji, the absence of yin and yang.


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## Dar (Jan 22, 2012)

Legendaryseeker99 said:


> Kyurem, Reshiram, and Zekrom used to be one dragon. Then, one day, it split, creating Zekrom, personifying yin, and Reshiram, personifying yang. Kyurem was what was left of the dragon, and was the personification of wuji, the absence of yin and yang.


*facepalm*
I'm going to leave this by dropping my IQ a few levels.


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## Nanabshuckle8 (Jan 23, 2012)

Well, I still think we have too little info to be compleately sure, all the glory to pokedex entries, but I'm not convinced until we et a "Grey" version.


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## M&F (Jan 23, 2012)

Nanabshuckle8 said:


> Well, I still think we have too little info to be compleately sure, all the glory to pokedex entries, but I'm not convinced until we et a "Grey" version.


The point is not to be completely sure; this title has "conspiracy" in the title. That said, indeed it's no doubt that we still have more to learn of the Tao trio, and it's quite possible that it will be unexpected -- after all, who saw Distortion World coming?


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## Karousever (Feb 4, 2012)

Superbird said:


> There was originally only one celebi. Then it started travelling through time, and thus there is a seperate incarnation of Celebi for every time it has at one point occupied. All of these can travel through time.
> 
> Or at least, that's how I see it, time paradoxes. Probably doesn't work that way with Dialga, 'cause Dialga controls the stuff more.


I think I get what you mean, like since Celebi's only relation to time is time travel, there is a Celebi (or even more) for about every moment in time, and they can all time travel, making there virtually be an infinite number of Celebi (assuming time is infinite as well and Celebi is never killed) but Dialga who doesn't time travel, yet instead controls and manipulates time, can only ever one exist...though perhaps he exists in all of time itself with there only being one of him.....if ANY of what I just said makes sense.


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## Superbird (Feb 4, 2012)

Well, they're all the same Celebi except from different periods in time. Dialga would be like that too if it didn't take the time to actually fix the paradoxes it would make by doing that, which is what I assume it does because it's actually able to.


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