# Out of Context TVTropes Mafia Quotes Mafia



## Mawile

The night is young, and everyone in Out Of Context-ville is ready for the game to begin. The GM has spent most of today writing role PMs and doesn't feel like writing a whole lot of flavor for this right now.

*Night 0 begins now. 
Night 0 will end in 24 hours, at 5pm Pacific/midnight UTC.*


----------



## Mawile

Spoiler: pings



@Mist1422
@Keldeo
@Despicable Meme
@storm
@kyeugh
@Vipera Magnifica
@IndigoEmmy
@kokorico
@Trebek
@tbh²
@Butterfree
@JackPK
@RedneckPhoenix
@Seshas
@Hydreigon25


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## Mawile

Also, just to clarify: *do not do any out of thread communication unless I have set up a PM thread for you to do so.*


----------



## Mawile

*DAY 1*​
The sun slowly rises over the bizarre little town of Out of Context-ville, which could honestly really use a better name. The mayor (me) is currently taking suggestions.

Some people sleep in, and others are early birds. Regardless, the town slowly all arrives at the town square, where the mayor has set up a small, roped off pit in the ground, with a sign in front of it reading "HELL PIT". A fitting name, because being thrown into the pit means that you are thrown straight down, deep into the ground, into a pit of lava. 

You briefly question the existence of the Hell Pit, as it wasn't there last night, but quickly decide to not ask the mayor any questions. The townspeople whisper among themselves and try to make guesses on how many people died.

Eventually, everybody shows up. The mayor does a quick roll call, and everyone is present. "good news guys", somebody whispers.

*Day 1 has begun. Nobody has died.
Day 1 will end in 48 hours, at 5pm Pacific on July 22nd and midnight UTC on July 23rd.*



Spoiler: summary



N0 - Nobody died.





Spoiler: pings



@Mist1422
@Keldeo
@Despicable Meme
@storm
@kyeugh
@Vipera Magnifica
@IndigoEmmy
@kokorico
@Trebek
@tbh²
@Butterfree
@JackPK
@RedneckPhoenix
@Seshas
@Hydreigon25


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## tbh²

good news guys


----------



## Zori

good news guys

hardclaim *Rueben, Mafia Sandwich Maker*
The sandwiches buff the rate of every ITA you make by 5% so be sure to eat them
ready to get shot D4/yeeted D2/spam grilled cheeses on Lukundo for him to whiff his shot anyways/whatever

yes this was prewritten no I don't care


----------



## qenya

aaaaa

free me from my self-imposed hell of endless 2R1B PMs

also: good news guys


----------



## tbh²

Seshas said:


> Lukundo


LMFAO oh god my lad luk

-m


----------



## Zori

A quick not about WW theory and how I will play this game--


----------



## tbh²

btw it is ACTUALLY good news this time. no deaths?!
-m


----------



## Zori

tbh² said:


> LMFAO oh god my lad luk
> 
> -m


Lilo and Stitch Mash
Lukundo carried the scumteam through after an absolute disaster of a D4
including 4 wolves dying


----------



## Zori

tbh² said:


> btw it is ACTUALLY good news this time. no deaths?!
> -m


I blame mr. doctor


----------



## qenya

tbh² said:


> btw it is ACTUALLY good news this time. no deaths?!
> -m


frankly a little disappointed tbh

from the way this game was billed I was expecting, like, eight deaths, of which at least two and a half would come back to life over the course of the day phase


----------



## tbh²

y'all should know better than to tempt fate. what's wrong with you guys
-m


----------



## Zori

kokorico said:


> tbh² said:
> 
> 
> 
> btw it is ACTUALLY good news this time. no deaths?!
> -m
> 
> 
> 
> frankly a little disappointed tbh
> 
> from the way this game was billed I was expecting, like, eight deaths, of which at least two and a half would come back to life over the course of the day phase
Click to expand...

I think wolves are saving their scattershot vig for N1


----------



## Zori

tfw you have a passive that would would be great if your role wasn't total crap


----------



## Zori

Seshas said:


> tfw you have a passive that would would be great if your role wasn't total crap


Although I guess it's good for balance if ~1/2 of the townies roles are total crap so I can't complain


----------



## Zori

the past 2 games I talked to mewt in they were wolf
the past 1 game I talked to rari in they were wolf
so now I'm scared of pocket


----------



## tbh²

well do not fear, for we are town! easy.
fwiw we are both scared of you being mafia/having to catch you now tbh considering that you've been town for HOW many games in a row,?
-m


----------



## Zori

Conclusion
None of the posts made before this one are very AI
disappointing


----------



## Zori

tbh² said:


> well do not fear, for we are town! easy.
> fwiw we are both scared of you being mafia/having to catch you now tbh considering that you've been town for HOW many games in a row,?
> -m


2, because snom
5 I think now


----------



## qenya

Seshas said:


> tfw you have a passive that would would be great if your role wasn't total crap


hmm, from this I can I infer you also have a bizarre non-action trait in addition to your "normal" role?


----------



## Zori

I think I'll just hold tbhtbh at the end of a long pole w/r/t reads
since I sadly do not have the ability to cop-check them this game


----------



## qenya

Seshas said:


> the past 2 games I talked to mewt in they were wolf
> the past 1 game I talked to rari in they were wolf
> so now I'm scared of pocket


this was my train of thought last game

it backfired horribly


----------



## Zori

kokorico said:


> Seshas said:
> 
> 
> 
> tfw you have a passive that would would be great if your role wasn't total crap
> 
> 
> 
> hmm, from this I can I infer you also have a bizarre non-action trait in addition to your "normal" role?
Click to expand...

ok I had my fun so we should probably stop softing all our roles now lol


----------



## qenya

raritini said:
			
		

>


sorry im sorry im trying to delete it


----------



## kyeugh

kokorico said:


> frankly a little disappointed tbh


 disappointed that more people didn't die?  wow openwolf much?  

good news guys, i'm truly excited for this game! :D  hope everyone has fun.  i'm glad no one died last night and we get at least one day all together, just hanging out like good chums.


----------



## JackPK

fuck yeah no deaths n0! make it rain!


----------



## qenya

Seshas said:


> kokorico said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Seshas said:
> 
> 
> 
> tfw you have a passive that would would be great if your role wasn't total crap
> 
> 
> 
> hmm, from this I can I infer you also have a bizarre non-action trait in addition to your "normal" role?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> ok I had my fun so we should probably stop softing all our roles now lol
Click to expand...

in fairness this game was explicitly advertised as "entirely power roles" and "shenanigans" so I don't think "I have a power role featuring shenanigans" really qualifies as softing


----------



## tbh²

maybe so but at least imo ... i don't really see the benefit in talking _too_ much about PRs, shenanigans or not, tbqh
-m


----------



## kyeugh

well, i do!  if we talk enough about them i can figure out who we should kill tonight, for example.


----------



## tbh²

yes queen!


----------



## RedneckPhoenix

you know i tried to use my role on stryke last night but i've been informed he's not in this game


----------



## JackPK

tbh² said:


> maybe so but at least imo ... i don't really see the benefit in talking _too_ much about PRs, shenanigans or not, tbqh
> -m


enough about power roles! let's talk about power rolls


----------



## kyeugh




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## RedneckPhoenix

so who here is the cultist.


----------



## RedneckPhoenix

here's my claim: i can make someone untraceable at night. however i also have a oneshot ability which forces them to claim truthfully the following day. i used it on herbe


----------



## Novae

Hi

I’m busy gambling my life away to get a shinx

I’ll be back sometime


----------



## RedneckPhoenix

AND my role pm states i am immune to cultification since i'm basically my own cult. can we copy paste our ooctvtq?


----------



## Mawile

RedneckPhoenix said:


> can we copy paste our ooctvtq?


the quote sure but not the pm


----------



## JackPK

oh are we actually getting to mechanical discussion on page 2? is that a thing we're doing again?


----------



## Mawile

Mawile said:


> the pm


*not the whole pm


----------



## RedneckPhoenix

you said no c/ping role pm's but i wanna c/p my flavor. what if i type it out exactly but don't actually use copy/paste


----------



## RedneckPhoenix

ok


----------



## tbh²

RedneckPhoenix said:


> you said no c/ping role pm's but i wanna c/p my flavor. what if i type it out exactly but don't actually use copy/paste


----------



## RedneckPhoenix

almost just posted my two rooms and a boom claim thru a copy paste accident


----------



## RedneckPhoenix

mewtini said:


> my 'best friend' is an abomination of nature who is emblematic of the demented hell-religion i worship


----------



## JackPK

RedneckPhoenix said:


> almost just posted my two rooms and a boom claim thru a copy paste accident


keith you know what I just realized? in tarot mafia you pulled off two booms in a room


----------



## tbh²

Oh God Eldritch Abomination
-m


----------



## RedneckPhoenix

RedneckPhoenix said:


> here's my claim: i can make someone untraceable at night. however i also have a oneshot ability which forces them to claim truthfully the following day. i used it on herbe


oop i mean the herbedra. despicable meme i think.


----------



## qenya

tbh² said:


> maybe so but at least imo ... i don't really see the benefit in talking _too_ much about PRs, shenanigans or not, tbqh
> -m


eh, fair enough. tbh I wasn't planning to say anything in the first place, just got overexcited and jumped on what seshas said in a pattern-matchy sort of way!

(though I see that since I started replying to this everyone else has started talking about PRs too, so, uh. sorry.)

this phase change time is pretty late for me so I'm probably not going to make a habit of being on at day-start, just wanted to get in on the first few pages! see y'all tomorrow. I fully expect at least one crazy day action by then. don't disappoint me tcod


----------



## RedneckPhoenix

sign up for power plant mafia


----------



## tbh²

c̷̟̲̲̰̖̣̹̫̣͢t͎̱͓̩̻͔͙̀h̡҉̩͍̮͍̜͉͇͕u̴̹̱̗͟͟l̠̱̲̝͜͡ͅͅh̴̡̖̯͙̬̬̪̹̲u̖̜̯͠ ͈̘́f̛̩̹̝̺̲͉h̡̹͍t̝̦͇̹͔̣̟̺a͙̫͚̜ģ̴̯̙̲͈̱͖n̥̬̻̫͘ 

- rari


----------



## Novae

Great news guys!!!


----------



## Despicable Meme

Hello hello everybody!

We got a fun little order last night, to paste this:

*The Flaming Scarlet Pupil of the Nonlinear Eternal Night-Bringer has cast a spell on me, and I am required to proclaim that my true alignment is that of the Town.*


----------



## RedneckPhoenix

the real play was to do that but also do that exact message but replace town with mafia and both in one post


----------



## Novae

Also I received an anonymous message last night from someone saying they need to get to know me?

also I figure I should probably claim partial miller


----------



## RedneckPhoenix

anyways my not one-shot is like, why would i ever use this as town?


----------



## Despicable Meme

RNP doesn't seem to be lying about the force-claim part of his role, but I'm not sure it's alignment indicative, or I'm not convinced it is just yet


----------



## RedneckPhoenix

why would a townie make someone untraceable. that's just self destructive


----------



## Despicable Meme

RedneckPhoenix said:


> anyways my not one-shot is like, why would i ever use this as town?


seems there must be a tracer in the mafia maybe? to trace doctors? idk


----------



## RedneckPhoenix

*ignores the mutliple games where i've committed suicide*


----------



## RedneckPhoenix

seriously though we worked hard on this setup


----------



## JackPK

so what I'm hearing is either RNP told the truth about (that part of) his role and H&M&F is v, or he lied and H&M&F/RNP are w/w and pre-coordinated this theater


----------



## tbh²

Despicable Meme said:


> RNP doesn't seem to be lying about the force-claim part of his role


why "seem to be"/the ambiguity? weren't you just forced to claim?
-m


----------



## JackPK

I want to believe that Herbe and M&F are not as reckless/dumb as that so I want to believe it's the first option, but idk


----------



## qenya

kokorico said:


> I fully expect at least one crazy day action by then. don't disappoint me tcod





Despicable Meme said:


> *The Flaming Scarlet Pupil of the Nonlinear Eternal Night-Bringer has cast a spell on me, and I am required to proclaim that my true alignment is that of the Town.*


well that was quick

(ok ok I'm gone)


----------



## RedneckPhoenix

like i said nothing abt my role says they can't claim both alignments, we don't know if they've fulfilled their action until the end of the day


----------



## Zori

RedneckPhoenix said:


> AND my role pm states i am immune to cultification since i'm basically my own cult. can we copy paste our ooctvtq?


oh god ok

in any case off to dinner now


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## RedneckPhoenix

because, again, if they don't succeed they get modkilled. i would have tried to get them modkilled for funsies but i'm not mafia aligned and i feel like gamethrowing is played out at this point


----------



## tbh²

RedneckPhoenix said:


> like i said nothing abt my role says they can't claim both alignments


sorry can you elaborate on this?
are you saying that the modkilling wouldn't happen until the end of day (i.e. if they haven't truthfully claimed by then?)
-m


----------



## tbh²

lmfao rari just panicked and checked to make sure that hmf's claim wasn't under a [random] tag.

Welcome to Out of Context TvTropes Mafia Quotes Mafia tbh.

-m


----------



## kyeugh

*I am Babey.*


----------



## tbh²

kyeugh said:


> *I am Going Crumplo Mode.*


fucking stop
oh my god i just saw the bbcode
-m


----------



## tbh²

kyeugh said:


> *I am Babey.*


i can’t stop laughing at this oh god
- rari


----------



## Mawile

kyeugh said:


> *I am Going Crumplo Mode.*


official modpost: i love this and thank you


----------



## Hydreigon25

JackPK said:


> tbh² said:
> 
> 
> 
> maybe so but at least imo ... i don't really see the benefit in talking _too_ much about PRs, shenanigans or not, tbqh
> -m
> 
> 
> 
> enough about power roles! let's talk about power rolls
Click to expand...

That looks more like Powdered Rolls


----------



## Trebek

kyeugh said:


> *I am Going Crumplo Mode.*


omfg

also hi! missed SoD bc was busy drivin 



Spoiler: me driving










 jk i followed all laws of the road

but yeah my one Thought atm is that i dont really think that the whole forceclaim stuff is RNP+Herbedra scumtheater, but the point about having to wait until EoD to check for a modkill is also valid


----------



## RedneckPhoenix

like herbemf could like. claim town, right. then like 2 minutes before EoD claim mafia like they need to


----------



## tbh²

Trebek said:


> but the point about having to wait until EoD to check for a modkill is also valid


uh, well, it's entirely dependent on what rnp's role is, innit
-m


----------



## tbh²

got ninja'd by the man himself clarifying


RedneckPhoenix said:


> like herbemf could like. claim town, right. then like 2 minutes before EoD claim mafia like they need to


thanks tbh! so does this like ... mean that they have to be clear about which claim is the real one?
-m


----------



## RedneckPhoenix

no


----------



## Novae

ok I'm back from getting a shinx and then getting dunked by literally the second gym leader anyway

AMA


----------



## Trebek

honestly my hot take is that like

every role has some like "immune to cultification" type thing like RNP's has

but then none of those actually exist in the game and we're all just like umm wheres the cult


----------



## RedneckPhoenix

it was just a message they had to c/p by eod or die. so theoretically they could say town, falsely, and also say mafia later on in the day. as far as i'm aware they don't get modkilled for Lying as long as they tell the truth before eod


----------



## tbh²

Mist1422 said:


> ok I'm back from getting a shinx and then getting dunked by literally the second gym leader anyway
> 
> AMA


are you mafia
-m


----------



## RedneckPhoenix

like if it were me i could say "yo i'm town"

and then like 2 minutes before eod say "sike i'm mafia thanks for the mislynch


----------



## Despicable Meme

tbh² said:


> Despicable Meme said:
> 
> 
> 
> RNP doesn't seem to be lying about the force-claim part of his role
> 
> 
> 
> why "seem to be"/the ambiguity? weren't you just forced to claim?
> -m
Click to expand...

taken a bit out of context - I wanted to show that i'm not sure that his force-claim role is town aligned. i didn't mean to doubt that he has that role


----------



## RedneckPhoenix

i might be overthinking but i'm just not gonna fullclear them till eod


----------



## Despicable Meme

mawile said in the pm that it was preferable if the message was c/p in our first couple of posts
you are entirely overthinking but i don't mind


----------



## RedneckPhoenix

Despicable Meme said:


> tbh² said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Despicable Meme said:
> 
> 
> 
> RNP doesn't seem to be lying about the force-claim part of his role
> 
> 
> 
> why "seem to be"/the ambiguity? weren't you just forced to claim?
> -m
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> taken a bit out of context - I wanted to show that i'm not sure that his force-claim role is town aligned. i didn't mean to doubt that he has that role
Click to expand...

to be fair i have claimed that Blatantly Mafia Roles are town roles and i'm "not sure why i got them" in the past

but i have also really just had Mafia Roles as a townie in the past, so.


----------



## RedneckPhoenix

like, i probably won't use my role the rest of the game because it's directly detrimental to the town's efforts to destroy information


----------



## Despicable Meme

RNP I thought you'd realise, post-styling on me, that I really do not overthink things and make big elaborate plans and logic threads lmao. I'm a simpleman - H


----------



## Trebek

y


RedneckPhoenix said:


> like, i probably won't use my role the rest of the game because it's directly detrimental to the town's efforts to destroy information


yeah, if it’s specifically untraceable and not like, a full jailing, idk how useful it is unless a mafia watcher exists

it would probably imply the existence of a mafia watcher but a) lolmechspec and b) who knows if the role is legit and/or town aligned


----------



## tbh²

mm, i don't think it's lolmechspec?
if rnp is telling the truth and is town it probably does legit imply a wolf-watcher/tracker
-m


----------



## tbh²

untraceability is unideal if the power gets used on like. The Wolf Executing the Kill. but i can maaaaybe see it being useful (if weird) in other scenarios i guess
-m


----------



## Despicable Meme

mild SL on Trebek right now but don't take it seriously
just posting for posterity


----------



## Trebek

tbh² said:


> mm, i don't think it's lolmechspec?
> if rnp is telling the truth and is town it probably does legit imply a wolf-watcher/tracker
> -m


er, i think i didnt document my thoughts right

i thought it was potentially lolmechspec _because _it would end up relying on rnp telling the truth

but nah i think youre right


----------



## tbh²

fwiw i am strongly of the belief that mechspec (and most spec, sans PR) is _good_ and very rarely an 'lol' provided it isn't happening like. in a distracting way or during EoD tbh. obviously there are circumstances that make it more or less  but the raw fact is that spec is how town navigates the game,
-m


----------



## Novae

tbh² said:


> Mist1422 said:
> 
> 
> 
> ok I'm back from getting a shinx and then getting dunked by literally the second gym leader anyway
> 
> AMA
> 
> 
> 
> are you mafia
> -m
Click to expand...

only on wednesdays 

wait is EoD on a wednesday


----------



## kyeugh

making someone untraceable seems a bit odd even if there is a mafia tracker, since its usefulness pretty much completely hinges on, like...  the person with the role picking up on softs and hoping they're right, i guess?  not much use on someone whose role is known.  if there is indeed a cult, it might be a useful role for a member of said cult to have since that could provide him with role information unavailable to the mafia to inform his night action decision, but given that he's un-inductable, uh, hm.  idk really what any of this means, if anything, but it does seem to be a somewhat weak role if he's telling the truth (which i'm currently inclined to believe he is, though i'm not sure it says much about his alignment)


----------



## tbh²

yeah, i was going to say that as well - that the untraceability pr would rely upon its user being really exact/spot on about their target. so i simply vibe tbh.
i just think it's hilarious that rnp apparently has my quote. :|
-m


----------



## tbh²

sinister minister hrs baby.


----------



## Trebek

tbh² said:


> yeah, i was going to say that as well - that the untraceability pr would rely upon its user being really exact/spot on about their target. so i simply vibe tbh.
> i just think it's hilarious that rnp apparently has my quote. :|
> -m


yeah i think thats what makes me a little bit weirded out about it bc like the role seems like it would work much better alongside some other way of gathering information, be it an extra component to the role or external chat

im down to just vibe for now tho


----------



## RedneckPhoenix

d1 claiming is fun let's all do it


----------



## RedneckPhoenix

mafia exploit. just lynch anyone who doesn't immediately claim


----------



## tbh²

sounds like something a cult leader would say tbh
-m


----------



## tbh²

RedneckPhoenix said:


> mafia exploit. just lynch anyone who doesn't immediately claim


isn't this literally just ToS
-m


----------



## RedneckPhoenix

i am one just not in game

anyone here like clowns?


----------



## RedneckPhoenix

tbh² said:


> RedneckPhoenix said:
> 
> 
> 
> mafia exploit. just lynch anyone who doesn't immediately claim
> 
> 
> 
> isn't this literally just ToS
> -m
Click to expand...

in my experience: yes


----------



## Trebek

tbh² said:


> RedneckPhoenix said:
> 
> 
> 
> mafia exploit. just lynch anyone who doesn't immediately claim
> 
> 
> 
> isn't this literally just ToS
> -m
Click to expand...

yes

me D1: hey [random person] claim
me: waits 1 second
me: THEY DIDNT CLAIM GET THEM


----------



## RedneckPhoenix

just claim survivor you have like a 50% chance of winning


----------



## Trebek

RedneckPhoenix said:


> just claim survivor you have like a 50% chance of winning


it only works if you re-claim survivor every 10 seconds tho


----------



## RedneckPhoenix

depends if you're playing all any or classic, i think


----------



## Trebek

RedneckPhoenix said:


> depends if you're playing all any or classic, i think


does classic even have survivor in its lineup?


----------



## Hydreigon25

this question for everyone, If you had to choose only between either red or blue what would you choose ?


----------



## RedneckPhoenix

Hydreigon25 said:


> this question for everyone, If you had to choose only between either red or blue what would you choose ?


red


----------



## RedneckPhoenix

wait can i change my answer


----------



## RedneckPhoenix

i'm gonna change my answer to red


----------



## tbh²

Hydreigon25 said:


> this question for everyone, If you had to choose only between either red or blue what would you choose ?


colours are a social construct.
- rari


----------



## RedneckPhoenix

dude did i ever tell you guys about the time i got told by an admin on a gmod server that i had to change my name bc i was redneckphoenix and some other guy was redphoenix and it confused him


----------



## kyeugh

Hydreigon25 said:


> this question for everyone, If you had to choose only between either red or blue what would you choose ?


 i rarely see the color red anyway.  a world with a colorless sky and ocean would be boring.


----------



## RedneckPhoenix

also is that times new roman


----------



## tbh²

question for everyone, if you had to choose between Decimating the Fucking Sea or Decimating All Land what would you choose?


----------



## Mawile

Hydreigon25 said:


> this question for everyone, If you had to choose only between either red or blue what would you choose ?


me, surrounded by both red and blue things that i enjoy:


----------



## kyeugh

tbh² said:


> question for everyone, if you had to choose between Decimating the Fucking Sea or Decimating All Land what would you choose?


 i would choose rayquaza.


----------



## Novae

one time on another site I play on there was a game where a neutral won because almost everyone claimed

on day one


----------



## Novae

kyeugh said:


> tbh² said:
> 
> 
> 
> question for everyone, if you had to choose between Decimating the Fucking Sea or Decimating All Land what would you choose?
> 
> 
> 
> i would choose rayquaza.
Click to expand...

i would choose latias tbh because I’m playing the remakes


----------



## Trebek

tbh² said:


> question for everyone, if you had to choose between Decimating the Fucking Sea or Decimating All Land what would you choose?


why not both


----------



## Zori

Commencing catchup
but before that
selling my soul for a shinx is definitely something I would do


----------



## Zori

RNP/HMF is w/w theater if and only if RNP is falsifying his role, which seems unlikely unless he put a large amount of foresight into it or something
v/w would resolve at EoD
w/v just
doesn't make sense, can't you wait until later then yoink someone's full role

so RNP and HMF are probably aligned for now


----------



## Zori

Trebek gives off severe cultist vibes
maybe not mafia? depends on if claims shake out the way I'm thinking


----------



## Despicable Meme

hi, everyone! as you can see, this is how I'm signing my posts


----------



## Zori

HMF is ok-enough V for now anyways unless trebek flips wolf


----------



## storm

these sure were seven densely incomprehensible pages

can we go back to memeing please


----------



## storm

thank u despicable meme!! you truly exactly what your name describes


----------



## JackPK

Seshas said:


> Trebek gives off severe cultist vibes


hm, what makes you say that?

I haven't picked up on it, but granted I have trouble reading everybody all the time in every game


----------



## Zori

Trebek said:


> honestly my hot take is that like
> 
> every role has some like "immune to cultification" type thing like RNP's has
> 
> but then none of those actually exist in the game and we're all just like umm wheres the cult


This just
feels like the exact thing a cultist would say


----------



## RedneckPhoenix

storm said:


> these sure were seven densely incomprehensible pages
> 
> can we go back to memeing please


no

you all wanna shift the meta to talk for dozens of pages every day, you're gonna GET pages of gametalk


----------



## RedneckPhoenix

if i can't meme for 10 pages nobody can


----------



## Zori

I wouldn't go too deep into the wolf tracker/watcher mechspec
sometimes hosts (read: me) put roles like that in just to be pure negative utility


----------



## JackPK

Seshas said:


> Trebek said:
> 
> 
> 
> honestly my hot take is that like
> 
> every role has some like "immune to cultification" type thing like RNP's has
> 
> but then none of those actually exist in the game and we're all just like umm wheres the cult
> 
> 
> 
> This just
> feels like the exact thing a cultist would say
Click to expand...

oh, that just sounded to me like Trebek also had an uncultifiable clause idk


----------



## storm

I cleverly forgot when day phase was starting and spent half the day ensconced in excited theorizing about destiny lore and now my brain _really_ does not want to convert to Thing That Isn't Destiny Lore so

gonna curl up into a ball instead! taking bets for how many pages we make it to while I slumber?


----------



## Zori

Choices time:
purple, team aqua has better motives but maxie looks better, and courtney is my favorite manga character


----------



## Zori

storm said:


> gonna curl up into a ball instead! taking bets for how many pages we make it to while I slumber?


10



JackPK said:


> oh, that just sounded to me like Trebek also had an uncultifiable clause idk


Specifically the last line


----------



## Trebek

it was just meant to be a meme tbh

i have no relation to or immunity from cult


----------



## Despicable Meme

Seshas said:


> I wouldn't go too deep into the wolf tracker/watcher mechspec
> sometimes hosts (read: me) put roles like that in just to be pure negative utility


----------



## RedneckPhoenix

tbh wishing i didn't force mfrbe to reveal so i could wagon them for the minion memes

might still vote for them tbh


----------



## tbh²

rnp, if i may ask, what led you to use your oneshot power n0?
- rari


----------



## RedneckPhoenix

tbh² said:


> rnp, if i may ask, what led you to use your oneshot power n0?
> - rari


you need to ask?


----------



## JackPK

RedneckPhoenix said:


> tbh² said:
> 
> 
> 
> rnp, if i may ask, what led you to use your oneshot power n0?
> - rari
> 
> 
> 
> you need to ask?
Click to expand...

well, I would normally guess "to mess with Stryke", but he's not playing this game, so


----------



## RedneckPhoenix

i could give you a whole story of my life and like psychological excuses as to why i act chaotic but honestly i'm just an asshole


----------



## Zori

tfw 21 notifications


----------



## Zori

also I swear I'm not going to be pocketed by storm again


----------



## Zori

Wooloo:
[RedneckPhoenix/Despicable Meme]

Vibing:
[tbh²] (note: aaaaaaaaaaa)
[Trebek/Hydreigon]
[kokorico/JackPK]

Ech:
[Everyone else probably}


----------



## Zori

I sort of vaguely liked Hydreigon's entrance but I don't think it's a thing to put too much stock into


----------



## tbh²

Seshas said:


> Vibing:
> [tbh²] (note: aaaaaaaaaaa)
> [_Trebek_/Hydreigon]


i thought you were reading him as cultist or something?
and is wooloo tier like, extra vibing, or is it just about you thinking that rnp/hmf are aligned
-m


----------



## Butterfree

Trebek said:


> honestly my hot take is that like
> 
> every role has some like "immune to cultification" type thing like RNP's has
> 
> but then none of those actually exist in the game and we're all just like umm wheres the cult


Galaxy brain: Trebek is actually the cult leader

(hi guys)


----------



## tbh²

lmfao you are not the first to say that!
hi bfree!
-m


----------



## tbh²

my ultra-preliminary soulread on trebek said not scum and i think that the last line of the quote bfree just posted sounds like ... something he would just joke about, but i was also assuming it was a softclaim (that his rolecard included the cult-immune thing or something). and _then_ i was like, maybe he's trying to draw out other people who are immune,

and then he said this thing


Trebek said:


> it was just meant to be a meme tbh
> 
> i have no relation to or immunity from cult


and now i'm like 

-m


----------



## Butterfree

Hydreigon25 said:


> this question for everyone, If you had to choose only between either red or blue what would you choose ?


Definitely blue


----------



## Butterfree

tbh² said:


> question for everyone, if you had to choose between Decimating the Fucking Sea or Decimating All Land what would you choose?


Nice try Hoenn team recruiter


----------



## tbh²

genuine q. is cultspec like. important? i'm assuming so considering that a cursory google implies that recruited cultists lose town powers lol ...
-m


----------



## kyeugh

I did not have private relations with that cultist.


----------



## Zori

tbh² said:


> Seshas said:
> 
> 
> 
> Vibing:
> [tbh²] (note: aaaaaaaaaaa)
> [_Trebek_/Hydreigon]
> 
> 
> 
> i thought you were reading him as cultist or something?
> and is wooloo tier like, extra vibing, or is it just about you thinking that rnp/hmf are aligned
> -m
Click to expand...

I'm reading Trebek as cultist but I don't think he's a wolf pending some mechanics working the way I think they do
Wooloo tier is: I townread these and I'm moderately confident
I have an aligned read on RNP/HMF and HMF has been moderately towny thus far


----------



## Zori

tbh² said:


> genuine q. is cultspec like. important? i'm assuming so considering that a cursory google implies that recruited cultists lose town powers lol ...
> -m


my strategy w/r/t cultists is hide in a corner and hope they go away


----------



## kyeugh

tbh² said:


> genuine q. is cultspec like. important? i'm assuming so considering that a cursory google implies that recruited cultists lose town powers lol ...
> -m


 i think so.  cults represent a serious threat to town.  since we have reason to believe one exists, and its size is at most two right now, i think it's important that we try to sort this and keep it at the forefront of our minds if possible.  in the end a cult and town victory are mutually exclusive.  if we have a vig and can eliminate the cult leader early, it improves our chances of winning by quite a lot.


----------



## Zori

cults are scary I'm scared


----------



## tbh²

kyeugh said:


> i think so. cults represent a serious threat to town. since we have reason to believe one exists, and its size is at most two right now, i think it's important that we try to sort this and keep it at the forefront of our minds if possible. in the end a cult and town victory are mutually exclusive. if we have a vig and can eliminate the cult leader early, it improves our chances of winning by quite a lot.


cool, that is about what i was thinking
i mean i realize that we should, you know, be hunting for wolves but this is sure also something
-m


----------



## Butterfree

Okay I'm caught up now, which means I'm probably gone for tonight, I need to post some art and fix a bug on TCoD.

Thoughts so far: RNP/Despicable Meme interaction probably indicates they're town, I am going to laugh so hard if Trebek actually is a cultist.


----------



## Zori

Oh yeah, kyeugh has posted a significant amount and I don't remember anything they said?
lean villa
inb4 randed alien


----------



## kyeugh

Seshas said:


> inb4 randed alien


----------



## Zori

koko and jack are in the tier where I'm vibing with them but I don't know why so probably actually more likely to be wolves
citation: the tier containing literally [Trebek/Jack/Stryke] in Tarot


----------



## Trebek

tbh² said:


> my ultra-preliminary soulread on trebek said not scum and i think that the last line of the quote bfree just posted sounds like ... something he would just joke about, but i was also assuming it was a softclaim (that his rolecard included the cult-immune thing or something). and _then_ i was like, maybe he's trying to draw out other people who are immune,
> 
> and then he said this thing
> 
> 
> Trebek said:
> 
> 
> 
> it was just meant to be a meme tbh
> 
> i have no relation to or immunity from cult
> 
> 
> 
> and now i'm like
> 
> -m
Click to expand...

oh i mean, softclaiming has happened, its just not cult related


----------



## Trebek

im just lmao bc like

the post that everyone's quoting/looking at now is like, the post that i put the least amount of cohesive thought into

i was just like haha this seems funny maybe someone else will find it funny


----------



## RedneckPhoenix

i feel that but also sometimes i think a joke is funny and then it's not funny and then i get lynched for being unfunny so it's tradition at this point


----------



## Keldeo

Greetings, fellow innocents! I'm obviously not a member of any shady criminal enterprise plotting to take over this town, nor am I a werewolf, so I am typing this post with human hands that definitely do not have any blood on them!

I unfortunately don't have a ton of capacity for mafia right now and so haven't read, but I'll be here tomorrow evening. Excited to meme here!


----------



## Trebek

hmmm

do we think is it useful speculating over why no one died last night?

bc like it could be anything from “doctor” to “mafia forgot lul” to “activated alien yikes”


----------



## JackPK

Trebek said:


> hmmm
> 
> do we think is it useful speculating over why no one died last night?
> 
> bc like it could be anything from “doctor” to “mafia forgot lul” to “activated alien yikes”


probably not useful, unless a town roleblocker/jailkeeper/etc exists and wants to come forward and point the finger at their n0 target

if it's alien, we probably have no way of figuring out who it is toDay, and if it's doc/etc, it's better to avoid spec in order to conceal them from the mafia


----------



## Trebek

alrighty, that’s what i was assuming as well but just wanted to make sure


----------



## Trebek

bc my first thought was like “if doctor healed someone then that someone is probably town owo” but that could backfire if the doctor wasn’t the reason that no kill happened


----------



## tbh²

agree with jack, i mean i guess we can talk about it but i think the options are pretty much bulletproof/alien hit or lucky doctor/roleblocker, i don't really see it being that useful



Trebek said:


> bc my first thought was like “if doctor healed someone then that someone is probably town owo” but that could backfire if the doctor wasn’t the reason that no kill happened


uhhh ... i. do not love this. i think if there's ever a situation where the doctor ends up claiming for some other reason, i agree that their n0 is probably cleared, but that's as much as i would feel comfortable saying ಠ_ಠ if you're suggesting that the doc or rb out themselves then no tbh?

-m


----------



## Trebek

tbh² said:


> agree with jack, i mean i guess we can talk about it but i think the options are pretty much bulletproof/alien hit or lucky doctor/roleblocker, i don't really see it being that useful
> 
> 
> 
> Trebek said:
> 
> 
> 
> bc my first thought was like “if doctor healed someone then that someone is probably town owo” but that could backfire if the doctor wasn’t the reason that no kill happened
> 
> 
> 
> uhhh ... i. do not love this. i think if there's ever a situation where the doctor ends up claiming for some other reason, i agree that their n0 is probably cleared, but that's as much as i would feel comfortable saying ಠ_ಠ if you're suggesting that the doc or rb out themselves then no tbh?
> 
> -m
Click to expand...

nononono

my point was that a) they shouldn’t out themselves rn and b) even if a doc claims, we don’t know if their n0 is cleared bc there could have been other reasons that a kill was prevented


----------



## tbh²

ah! gotcha! that is way better hahahaha.
-m


----------



## Despicable Meme

muckle damred cultists! weeer ye namblies be keepin me wee men?


----------



## qenya

Trebek said:


> tbh² said:
> 
> 
> 
> question for everyone, if you had to choose between Decimating the Fucking Sea or Decimating All Land what would you choose?
> 
> 
> 
> why not both
> View attachment 710
Click to expand...

a novel solution to the trolley problem 



tbh² said:


> genuine q. is cultspec like. important? i'm assuming so considering that a cursory google implies that recruited cultists lose town powers lol ...
> -m


IME this very much depends on the host's preference. I don't think it would be wise to take for granted that the cult, if it exists, doesn't have access to PRs.



JackPK said:


> probably not useful, unless a town roleblocker/jailkeeper/etc exists and wants to come forward and point the finger at their n0 target


I don't think such a person, if they exist, should do that. In a game specifically advertised as "role madness", chances are that that person is _not_ the reason why the nightkill failed, and in that case they're just revealing themself for nothing.


----------



## qenya

I kinda get the thing of sussing Trebek for what he said about cultification, but it seems a tad weak to me. It's exactly the sort of joking around that several people, me included, have already been doing about the setup. If you're going to read him as a cultist for that, why not also read me as someone who causes eight nightkills at once and then brings two and a half of them back to life over the course of the day? Hell, I could equally say that _Seshas_ seems culty for trying to pin the blame on Trebek.

If there is a cult (and despite the joking, I do think it's more likely than not - useless roles can be amusing but I'm sure Mawile has better ways to troll us) I agree with kyeugh that getting rid of them should be our first priority, as they're only going to get more powerful over the course of the game.

Finally, seconding whoever it was who wanted to go back to memeing. Kinda getting whiplash from how fast the chat pivoted to mechspec. D:


----------



## qenya

kokorico said:


> I kinda get the thing of sussing Trebek for what he said about cultification, but it seems a tad weak to me.


tbc, it's stronger than nothing, but that's literally the lowest of low bars


----------



## qenya

Despicable Meme said:


> muckle damred cultists! weeer ye namblies be keepin me wee men?


hardread H&M&F leprechaun


----------



## Zori

kokorico said:


> I kinda get the thing of sussing Trebek for what he said about cultification, but it seems a tad weak to me. It's exactly the sort of joking around that several people, me included, have already been doing about the setup. If you're going to read him as a cultist for that, why not also read me as someone who causes eight nightkills at once and then brings two and a half of them back to life over the course of the day? Hell, I could equally say that _Seshas_ seems culty for trying to pin the blame on Trebek.
> 
> If there is a cult (and despite the joking, I do think it's more likely than not - useless roles can be amusing but I'm sure Mawile has better ways to troll us) I agree with kyeugh that getting rid of them should be our first priority, as they're only going to get more powerful over the course of the game.
> 
> Finally, seconding whoever it was who wanted to go back to memeing. Kinda getting whiplash from how fast the chat pivoted to mechspec. D:


I think that the argument in the first paragraph is flawed, as I'm not bashing on the content of the post, but the awkward-ish tone. If I'm trying to pin the blame on and seriously consider voting Trebek, why would I put them in my townreads a few posts later?

For the second argument, what if I harclaimed wolf right now, but said that you shouldn't vote me because it will give more time for the cult to grow. I don't think gunning the cult is the best way to win the game, because we have approximately the same amount of leads, if not less, for cultists as for mafia, assuming there are mafia in this game, unless we have a cult-cop or something.


----------



## Zori

There's seriously a chance that there's no mafia and just a cult this game
that would explain the lack of a N0 kill


----------



## Zori

*kokorico*


----------



## Zori

Seshas said:


> *kokorico*


I feel like he's rushing a stance on the cultist thing for the purpose of taking one, instead of proceeding in good faith


----------



## Hydreigon25

Seshas said:


> *kokorico*


why that vote this early ?


----------



## Zori

ftr this makes it sound a lot more confident than I actually am


----------



## qenya

Seshas said:


> I think that the argument in the first paragraph is flawed, as I'm not bashing on the content of the post, but the awkward-ish tone. If I'm trying to pin the blame on and seriously consider voting Trebek, why would I put them in my townreads a few posts later?


yes, exactly! we're on, what, page 10? nobody's toneread is any better than random chance just yet



Seshas said:


> For the second argument, what if I harclaimed wolf right now, but said that you shouldn't vote me because it will give more time for the cult to grow. I don't think gunning the cult is the best way to win the game, because we have approximately the same amount of leads, if not less, for cultists as for mafia, assuming there are mafia in this game, unless we have a cult-cop or something.


well, if you hardclaimed wolf right now I would be suspicious of alien, but to engage with your actual point, yes, obviously if we had strong evidence about a wolf and not about a cultist then we should act on that. but we don't, at least not yet! what I'm saying is that in the _absence_ of any other info, the cult are more of a threat rn


----------



## qenya

Seshas said:


> *kokorico*


ಠ_ಠ


----------



## Hydreigon25

I mean we are still on day 1


----------



## Zori

kokorico said:


> Seshas said:
> 
> 
> 
> I think that the argument in the first paragraph is flawed, as I'm not bashing on the content of the post, but the awkward-ish tone. If I'm trying to pin the blame on and seriously consider voting Trebek, why would I put them in my townreads a few posts later?
> 
> 
> 
> yes, exactly! we're on, what, page 10? nobody's toneread is any better than random chance just yet
Click to expand...

_Tonereads are how I caught Trebek in Tarot_

Dropping the other point because I think we agree there


----------



## Zori

I think my stance on cults is that I'm salty I can no longer lean on my townbloc


----------



## Zori

I think storm is lightly wolfy if kokorico is town
I have an obligation to not explain this read


----------



## Vipera Magnifica

Hello everyone

I’d wager this is going to a very interesting game


----------



## Vipera Magnifica

If I had to predict who’s being yeeted today, it’s probably not Despicable Meme or RNP, as much as I’d love it if that was all scum theater


----------



## storm

I am actually more tired than I was yesterday! amazing. sorry guys, I will be lurking
(also sorry for tarot mafia, seshas! it was very much a guilty victory. being scum was _hard_)

but uh @Hydreigon25, I'm reading your posts in a different font, why is that?


----------



## Novae

did I miss VM also getting a gambling addiction


----------



## Hydreigon25

i don't know @storm


----------



## Zori

although I can confirm that it is in a different font


----------



## Novae

wait i mist another chance for a pun dangit


----------



## Zori

Mist1422 said:


> wait i mist another chance for a pun dangit


I was split between giving that a  and a


----------



## Zori

storm said:


> (also sorry for tarot mafia, seshas! it was very much a guilty victory. being scum was _hard_)


This is me to every townie in every wolf game tbh


----------



## Zori

Soft townread on storm for tone?
I feel like this is exactly what I did in Tarot


----------



## tbh²

Hydreigon25 said:


> I mean we are still on day 1


i don't think early voting is a bad thing tbh! at least on here where we historically wait too long haha ...


kokorico said:


> what I'm saying is that in the _absence_ of any other info, the cult are more of a threat rn


agree with this
to be clear i'm not really like. dropping trebek in my reads due to that early joke post in isolation - i really don't think i liked his recovery at all and i don't think that first post makes sense without at least some level of connection


Seshas said:


> Soft townread on storm for tone?
> I feel like this is exactly what I did in Tarot


hahah tbqh i remember getting shocked that everyone townleaned or got pocketed by storm in tarot
i think they are exactly NAI right now

-m


----------



## RedneckPhoenix

Hydreigon25 said:


> i don't know @storm


WHY IS THIS A DIFFERENT FONT


----------



## Despicable Meme

they must have hit the capital A which switches the font family
like this


----------



## tbh²

sweet sweet times new roman


----------



## RedneckPhoenix

it's not times new roman


----------



## tbh²

i think it is tbh! i checked the bbcode!
-m


----------



## RedneckPhoenix

it appears to be droid serif?


----------



## RedneckPhoenix

the lowercase i's in new roman have their uppermost serif tilted down more


----------



## Despicable Meme

this is book antiqua according to the forum

rnp it's droid serif for you bc you're on your android


----------



## RedneckPhoenix

fair


----------



## Despicable Meme

wait i suppose that hydreigon was typing in TNR


----------



## RedneckPhoenix

i know tnr and what i am currently seeing is not tnr


----------



## RedneckPhoenix

bluh bluh


----------



## Zori

FTFlush vibes


----------



## tbh²

will resurface in a few hrs, must force myself out of bed / to get work done
currently i feel like i'm not townreading enough people tbqh :'D i think i like jack and skylar. i'm not sure who else offhand
-m


----------



## tbh²

oh @Hydreigon25 forgot to ask this earlier, what experience do you have with mafia? :o
-m


----------



## Novae

RedneckPhoenix said:


> bluh bluh





Seshas said:


> FTFlush vibes


both of these posts give me entirely different flashbacks


----------



## Hydreigon25

I participated in some Pokémon Mafias


----------



## Zori

Mist1422 said:


> Seshas said:
> 
> 
> 
> FTFlush vibes
> 
> 
> 
> both of these posts give me entirely different flashbacks
Click to expand...

Hardclaiming *FTFlush, Town Zero-Posting Cop*?


----------



## Despicable Meme

agreed with tbh² that lurking isn't exactly alignment-indicative; it wasn't back in tarot either, we just all had better leads to pursue and a big ol bunch of them happened to be completely wrong

also agreed, with both my other head and tbh², that trebek is wigging me. it'd be tragicomic if he were scum yet again, but that's the random number god for ya, no mercy

seshas is... acting really weird? it's hard to say what that means alignment-wise, especially being that we notoriously haven't seen seshas' wolfgame yet. maybe we should keep seshas alive for science

I'm out here posting reads without running them by the other head first. lynch me individually, I'll multiply and post twice as many minion memes


----------



## Zori

Despicable Meme said:


> seshas is... acting really weird? it's hard to say what that means alignment-wise, especially being that we notoriously haven't seen seshas' wolfgame yet. maybe we should keep seshas alive for science


I'm fairly sure this has been brought up in every game except TvT
now all that's left is for mewt and kyeugh to start a wagon on me


----------



## Novae

Seshas said:


> Mist1422 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Seshas said:
> 
> 
> 
> FTFlush vibes
> 
> 
> 
> both of these posts give me entirely different flashbacks
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Hardclaiming *FTFlush, Town Zero-Posting Cop*?
Click to expand...

why do you insist on doing this to me


----------



## kyeugh

Seshas said:


> Despicable Meme said:
> 
> 
> 
> seshas is... acting really weird? it's hard to say what that means alignment-wise, especially being that we notoriously haven't seen seshas' wolfgame yet. maybe we should keep seshas alive for science
> 
> 
> 
> I'm fairly sure this has been brought up in every game except TvT
> now all that's left is for mewt and kyeugh to start a wagon on me
Click to expand...

 ah, tempting...

i disagree that seshas is acting weird. in fact, i’m vibing. *kokorico*


----------



## tbh²

didn’t feel great about seshas last night but after sleeping on it i think her posting is hitting me similarly to how it did in tarot/i like her posts today better than yesterday. need to reread and think on it but idk if i feel like she’s acting weird wrt tarot. what do you think @Despicable Meme ?/what strikes you as “weird”
-m


----------



## tbh²

Seshas said:


> Despicable Meme said:
> 
> 
> 
> seshas is... acting really weird? it's hard to say what that means alignment-wise, especially being that we notoriously haven't seen seshas' wolfgame yet. maybe we should keep seshas alive for science
> 
> 
> 
> I'm fairly sure this has been brought up in every game except TvT
> now all that's left is for mewt and kyeugh to start a wagon on me
Click to expand...

sorry legend. take it as a compliment tbh. you’re intimidating!
-m


----------



## tbh²

i will also readily admit that i’m avoiding reading koko after The ACNH Debacle tbh, ive tried to analyze that endlessly and i don’t know what i would’ve done differently so now i’m like. maybe i simply cannot read koko?! will revisit
-m


----------



## RedneckPhoenix

yes but why are you typing in a different font @Hydreigon25


----------



## Trebek

Mist1422 said:


> Also I received an anonymous message last night from someone saying they need to get to know me?
> 
> also I figure I should probably claim partial miller


did we want to adress either the first or second part of this? unless i’m remembering wrong it sorta got glossed over?


----------



## Trebek

didn’t tvt have some type of stalker in it

idk that’s what that message seems like to me


----------



## tbh²

mm, i saw it/took note but don't really know what to engage with tbh? tvt has jaded me wrt whispers (/idk what to glean from this since i assume it's probably the result of someone's PR) and i don't really want to go to deep into a claim
-m


----------



## Zori

Partial miller claim is probably NAI, I'm not sure what the first would be other than a straight anonymous message?


----------



## Trebek

tbh² said:


> mm, i saw it/took note but don't really know what to engage with tbh? tvt has jaded me wrt whispers (/idk what to glean from this since i assume it's probably the result of someone's PR) and i don't really want to go to deep into a claim
> -m


that’s valid, i was mostly just afraid that if we didn’t take note of it it would come back to bite us later


----------



## tbh²

Trebek said:


> didn’t tvt have some type of stalker in it
> 
> idk that’s what that message seems like to me


iirc this isn't how the stalker with a crush role manifested but @kyeugh would know better
-m


----------



## Zori

I've decided that reading tbh2 is viable, and the reason I got pocketed in tarot was because of Trebek spew, and I did peg rari in cats dead-chat
just, maybe not purely off of solving level


----------



## Zori

Trebek villager tbh


----------



## tbh²

Seshas said:


> I did peg rari in cats dead-chat


i am verily impressed by this
a deep dark secret is that i'm hydraing with rari because i'm too scared to have to read her myself-


----------



## Zori

tbh² said:


> Seshas said:
> 
> 
> 
> I did peg rari in cats dead-chat
> 
> 
> 
> i am verily impressed by this
> a deep dark secret is that i'm hydraing with rari because i'm too scared to have to read her myself-
Click to expand...

related to the reason I hydra with my brother in irl mafia
he can peg me with 100% accuracy


----------



## Zori

Seshas said:


> Trebek villager tbh


His tone just feels villagery, and unlike Tarot
This extends to probably not cult leader?


----------



## kyeugh

tbh² said:


> Trebek said:
> 
> 
> 
> didn’t tvt have some type of stalker in it
> 
> idk that’s what that message seems like to me
> 
> 
> 
> iirc this isn't how the stalker with a crush role manifested but @kyeugh would know better
> -m
Click to expand...

 mm, yeah, not quite.  for one thing, i was told up front that i was being followed by a stalker with a crush.


----------



## RedneckPhoenix

fruit vendor


----------



## RedneckPhoenix

setup: everyone is a fruit vendor but the mafia can choose who to kill based on the amount of fruit they have, either most or least fruit


----------



## RedneckPhoenix

ties are decided via rng


----------



## Zori

people who don't have enough fruit starve to death


----------



## RedneckPhoenix

THAT'S A GREAT IDEA


----------



## Trebek

Seshas said:


> people who don't have enough fruit starve to death


is this the second game in a row where i can make the “apple a day keeps the doctor away” joke


----------



## RedneckPhoenix

maybe everyone has one specific fruit. like seshas gives bananas and herbe gives oranges and like the mafia gives coconuts and durians and other dangerous fruit


----------



## Trebek

RedneckPhoenix said:


> maybe everyone has one specific fruit. like seshas gives bananas and herbe gives oranges and like the mafia gives coconuts and durians and other dangerous fruit


the winner is decided by how cohesive of a fruit salad you can make at the end


----------



## RedneckPhoenix

no i think it's town/mafia but the mvp or like winner of the sidegame is the fruit salader


----------



## RedneckPhoenix

however before i run that game i must run ppp


----------



## tbh²

Seshas said:


> His tone just feels villagery, and unlike Tarot
> This extends to probably not cult leader?


reserving most judgment for now i think but i agree that he's been quite different from acnh (where i kept screaming at rari about how trebek kept avoiding all game-related talk, and like, flippantly) and i think that the way he's talked about like ... nervously surveying the landscape feels villagery for him
-m


----------



## tbh²

tbh² said:


> acnh (and tarot)


----------



## kyeugh

tbh² said:


> Seshas said:
> 
> 
> 
> His tone just feels villagery, and unlike Tarot
> This extends to probably not cult leader?
> 
> 
> 
> reserving most judgment for now i think but i agree that he's been quite different from acnh (where i kept screaming at rari about how trebek kept avoiding all game-related talk, and like, flippantly) and i think that the way he's talked about like ... nervously surveying the landscape feels villagery for him
> -m
Click to expand...

 agreed with you both here, i feel okay about him so far.  i might even agree that he's not the cult leader, though i'm not writing off the possibility that he was inducted last night just yet.


----------



## tbh²

fwiw i don't think that we should be conflating 'not scum' with 'not cult [leader]'
if my Google Research is correct i think CL probably has some interest in participating in the game/solving normally too :v

-m


----------



## storm

tbh² said:


> hahah tbqh i remember getting shocked that everyone townleaned or got pocketed by storm in tarot


me too, how did I not get found out! I was panicking the entire time!

but about the "get to know me" message, I... might be able to point to what that is? idk much about it but part of my role is that I'm immune to being neighbourized. I had to look that up, but there might be out of thread communication being set up through neighbourhoods going on through the nights


----------



## storm

also I took a nap so I'm feeling a bit less useless and I dreamt about this game, except I was a Pokemon and during the explanation of why someone was scum I wandered off to do something else, which is basically what happens during end of day each time


----------



## kyeugh

storm said:


> but about the "get to know me" message, I... might be able to point to what that is? idk much about it but part of my role is that I'm immune to being neighbourized. I had to look that up, but there might be out of thread communication being set up through neighbourhoods going on through the nights


 hmm.  it doesn't sound like neighborizing to me if he just got an anonymous whisper, but that's good to know.  it seems like maybe there's a lot of out-of-thread communication going on in this game.


----------



## kyeugh

kyeugh said:


> hmm. it doesn't sound like neighborizing to me if *she* just got an anonymous whisper, but that's good to know. it seems like maybe there's a lot of out-of-thread communication going on in this game.


 whoops, mistyped.  *she.


----------



## storm

fair enough! I. don't know how that usually works, so if it's less subtle than that then my bad


----------



## Novae

that is _very interesting_ storm given that I'm immune to being masonized

not neighborized, masonized

which I assume makes me get come up as scum to a masonizer based off my experience with the role, hence the partial miller claim


----------



## tbh²

storm said:


> fair enough! I. don't know how that usually works, so if it's less subtle than that then my bad


yeah neighborizers start up a whole external pm! dw about it. this is interesting though ...
-m


----------



## tbh²

...
this is sure going to be A Game huh.
-m


----------



## Novae

it's based on tvt what were you expecting


----------



## JackPK

god if this game is just like, a shit ton of faction-changing -izer powers, i will be so mad


----------



## kyeugh

hm.  i'm beginning to more seriously consider that all this stuff might be a bunch of red herrings.


----------



## tbh²

kyeugh said:


> hm.  i'm beginning to more seriously consider that all this stuff might be a bunch of red herrings.


lmfao rari and i were just saying this
but i don't love the idea of just assuming that the pms are misleading on d1
-m


----------



## Trebek

kyeugh said:


> hm.  i'm beginning to more seriously consider that all this stuff might be a bunch of red herrings.


this is what i was partially considering when i made the meme post earlier, considering that i am immune to... having my house set on fire?


----------



## tbh²

i'm wondering if there are like. multiple people who even share any 'immunity'? raritini has a thus-far unique ""immunity"" ... i think if EVERYONE has differently-referenced ones it's likelier it's all just a ruse lol
-m


----------



## Trebek

tbh² said:


> i'm wondering if there are like. multiple people who even share any 'immunity'? raritini has a thus-far unique ""immunity"" ... i think if EVERYONE has differently-referenced ones it's likelier it's all just a ruse lol
> -m


yep, that’s what i was wondering

if everyone has a unique one, it seems like too much to fit in one game


----------



## tbh²

considering that if there's any semblance of town v mafia/cult in this game
we might be getting to the point where this stuff barely even fits in setup
-m


----------



## tbh²

or maybe it's just multiball. fuck it.
-m


----------



## Trebek

yeah i don’t want to write it all off just yet bc the possibility of a cult existing is still spooky but like

there’s a lot ™ happening


----------



## tbh²

Trebek said:


> considering that i am immune to... having my house set on fire?


in that phrasing? or arsonist?
-m


----------



## tbh²

anyway, yeah, as i said. i don't want to go down the GM Is Lying path as a working theory anytime soon really but this is all, intriguing,
-m


----------



## Trebek

tbh² said:


> Trebek said:
> 
> 
> 
> considering that i am immune to... having my house set on fire?
> 
> 
> 
> in that phrasing? or arsonist?
> -m
Click to expand...

it is quite literally having my house set on fire


----------



## Trebek

Trebek said:


> tbh² said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Trebek said:
> 
> 
> 
> considering that i am immune to... having my house set on fire?
> 
> 
> 
> in that phrasing? or arsonist?
> -m
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> it is quite literally having my house set on fire
Click to expand...

which could imply arsonist? i suppose the distinction between having a house set on fire or a person set on fire could vary between games


----------



## RedneckPhoenix

in recent memory i have had my house burned down and not died


----------



## RedneckPhoenix

in a mafia game i mean. lemme go find which game it was


----------



## tbh²

Trebek said:


> which could imply arsonist? i suppose the distinction between having a house set on fire or a person set on fire could vary between games


sorry to do a 180 but quite frankly i think this points towards the rolecards being red herrings
most cards seem to mention specific roles/powers (at least mine does)
-m


----------



## kyeugh

tbh² said:


> anyway, yeah, as i said. i don't want to go down the GM Is Lying path as a working theory anytime soon really but this is all, intriguing,
> -m


 i'm not sure i'm willing to go all in on the idea either, but i do think it's something we should consider.  i'd rather start thinking about it early and end up wrong than suppress my skepticism and get side-tracked by something that turns out to be smoke and mirrors.  if all this is indeed real we'll almost certainly find out before long.

for what it's worth, i have an immunity to roleswapping.


----------



## RedneckPhoenix

it was in calvinball 2019


----------



## Trebek

ok sorry adjustment after rereading

my flavorcard says “house on fire”, but the like bold tldr of my role just says “set on fire”


----------



## qenya

Not quite caught up yet, but FWIW, I also have an "immunity" that nobody's mentioned yet, and it is a clearly-defined mechanical thing rather than Trebek's "house burning down" thing.


----------



## RedneckPhoenix

when's calvinball 2020 tbh


----------



## kyeugh

RedneckPhoenix said:


> when's calvinball 2020 tbh


right now, maybe.


----------



## tbh²

i think it's like, distinctly possible that bastard-gm-mawile gave everyone immunities but gave trebek/some people a non-mech one for shits and giggles
-m


----------



## tbh²

this would also make the immunity thing roughly NAI btw
-m


----------



## kyeugh

currently it seems we're looking at:

a cult leader
a masonizer
a neighborizer
a role swapper
an arsonist
whatever koko is immune to
[insert your role here]
if all of this is true, that's close to half the roles in the game.  if cult/masons are a thing then they probably have some idea about a few more, too.


----------



## tbh²

and an eighth role from raritini's card, i don't want to reveal it yet because i don't think it's a good idea to, but. yeah.
-m


----------



## Trebek

inb4 there isn’t actually a mafia


----------



## IndigoClaudia

Just to clarify i'm not dead yet, right?


----------



## storm

that's why there wasn't a kill, it's just all us, 5000 nonlethal factions, growing paranoia and the ability to lynch,


----------



## Trebek

tbh² said:


> and an eighth role from raritini's card, i don't want to reveal it yet because i don't think it's a good idea to, but. yeah.
> -m


yeah i only revealed mine bc at best it reveals an arsonist and at worst it was a red herring

if you have a “secret immunity” that could flag a town PR, then don’t reveal it rn tbh


----------



## Mawile

IndigoEmmy said:


> Just to clarify i'm not dead yet, right?


you're alive! nobody died last night


----------



## Zori

I think mewt said something about how I read as similar to tarot. Does the fact you were wolf change your perception of that?

I am immune to any actions that would cause me to be unable to target any players on the same team as me, which would be >rand a mafia role because the vast majority of mafia roles don't benefit from targeting their teammates


----------



## Trebek

that’s an... interesting immunity lmao


----------



## Zori

Seshas said:


> Does the fact you were wolf change your perception of that?


Misread this as "werewolf" and was searching for where I made a grammar error


----------



## qenya

kyeugh said:


> if all of this is true, that's close to half the roles in the game. if cult/masons are a thing then they probably have some idea about a few more, too.


yeah, I was initially doubtful about the idea of fake/useless roles, but this is starting to get ridiculous

if all of these are actually things that are in the game I don't know what to think


----------



## tbh²

Seshas said:


> I think mewt said something about how I read as similar to tarot. Does the fact you were wolf change your perception of that?


maybe but i don't really think so! i was rereading a bit more recently too ... i will probably be revisiting you later tonight to sort my thoughts a bit better but the main thing i was talking about was what i perceived as a change between your tvt/tarot games
-m


----------



## tbh²

tbh² said:


> what i perceived as a change between your tvt/tarot games


which i later realized wasn't as drastic as i thought it was
-m


----------



## Trebek

it feels like, at least to me, we are approaching the critical mass where either a) there is no mafia and it’s all outgroup cult madness or b) these are red herrings

or everyone just has an obscene amount of things that their role is capable of and we’re all getting memed on by the GM


----------



## Zori

I think it's possible that there's a cult that converts people's abilities to said dumb stuff?


----------



## Novae

ok guys big brain plan

*Mawile*


----------



## Trebek

Seshas said:


> I think it's possible that there's a cult that converts people's abilities to said dumb stuff?


ohh true, maybe town PRs have cult variants to their PRs, which could provide enough room for all of this to exist concurrently

that’s still a lot tho


----------



## Zori

can support
*Mawile*


----------



## Trebek

i would also vote mawile but i laughed too hard when i read my role card


----------



## kyeugh

Trebek said:


> if you have a “secret immunity” that could flag a town PR, then don’t reveal it rn tbh


 mm, i kind of don’t see why not tbh. mafia already knows everyone has a power role. i don’t think narrowing down which power roles exactly are in play helps mafia more than town. it’s not like it paints a target on any specific person’s back, aside from like, “we know skylar isn’t the roleswapper” etc. but having that information does help us sort things out a bit.


Trebek said:


> it feels like, at least to me, we are approaching the critical mass where either a) there is no mafia and it’s all outgroup cult madness or b) these are red herrings
> 
> or everyone just has an obscene amount of things that their role is capable of and we’re all getting memed on by the GM


 very strongly doubt world A.


----------



## Trebek

kyeugh said:


> Trebek said:
> 
> 
> 
> it feels like, at least to me, we are approaching the critical mass where either a) there is no mafia and it’s all outgroup cult madness or b) these are red herrings
> 
> or everyone just has an obscene amount of things that their role is capable of and we’re all getting memed on by the GM
> 
> 
> 
> very strongly doubt world A.
Click to expand...

yeah should have specified, i’m leaning much towards world B, but wanted to acknowledge both possibilities


----------



## qenya

Trebek said:


> Seshas said:
> 
> 
> 
> I think it's possible that there's a cult that converts people's abilities to said dumb stuff?
> 
> 
> 
> ohh true, maybe town PRs have cult variants to their PRs, which could provide enough room for all of this to exist concurrently
> 
> that’s still a lot tho
Click to expand...

I think this is unlikely given the short amount of time Mawile said he had to come up with the roles. Occam's razor says that some or all of the immunities are just red herrings.


----------



## tbh²

agree w skylar but ftr
my thing doesn't reveal a town PR
i have other reasons to not want to say it, sorry
-m


----------



## Trebek

honestly i could see the world where like half of them are red herrings and then half of them are legit and we have to figure out which is which?


----------



## kyeugh

Trebek said:


> yeah should have specified, i’m leaning much towards world B, but wanted to acknowledge both possibilities


 i don't think it's a possibility.  my role pm says that i win when all mafia are eliminated.  doesn't yours?


----------



## Trebek

tbh² said:


> agree w skylar but ftr
> my thing doesn't reveal a town PR
> i have other reasons to not want to say it, sorry
> -m


ooooh ok

i put 2 and 2 together and got something that was apparently not 4 :p


----------



## Trebek

kyeugh said:


> Trebek said:
> 
> 
> 
> yeah should have specified, i’m leaning much towards world B, but wanted to acknowledge both possibilities
> 
> 
> 
> i don't think it's a possibility.  my role pm says that i win when all mafia are eliminated.  doesn't yours?
Click to expand...

oh jeez, yeah that’s totally a thing

it does, i just got overly excited about the tinfoil


----------



## Trebek

also, if a cult does in fact exist, is there anything stopping the cult and the mafia from being the same entity?


----------



## Zori

Wait, if town wins when all mafia are eliminated, does that make cults a non-issue?


----------



## Trebek

Seshas said:


> Wait, if town wins when all mafia are eliminated, does that make cults a non-issue?


that’s why i was wondering if the cult mechanic would be part of the mafia group, if it exists


----------



## Zori

by the way, the mechanics thing on my trebek TR was said immunity abilities, he didn't go about it like he was informed like mafia probably are


----------



## tbh²

i kinda think there is no cult because i'm starting to buy that the immunities are red herrings
but if there is one it would be anti-town by definition, wouldn't it


Trebek said:


> also, if a cult does in fact exist, is there anything stopping the cult and the mafia from being the same entity?


i would say yes
-m


----------



## kyeugh

Seshas said:


> Wait, if town wins when all mafia are eliminated, does that make cults a non-issue?


 hm?  i don't think so, no.  cults win when they're at majority, right?  so they can win even if there are still mafia remaining.


----------



## Novae

hardclaim town cult leader

not really, sorry for disappointing y'all


----------



## Zori

I guess I gotta retract that wolfclaim then


----------



## qenya

kyeugh said:


> Seshas said:
> 
> 
> 
> Wait, if town wins when all mafia are eliminated, does that make cults a non-issue?
> 
> 
> 
> hm?  i don't think so, no.  cults win when they're at majority, right?  so they can win even if there are still mafia remaining.
Click to expand...

this - and also, there's nothing saying mawile didn't use "mafia" as a shorthand for "antitown players"


----------



## Zori

kyeugh said:


> Seshas said:
> 
> 
> 
> Wait, if town wins when all mafia are eliminated, does that make cults a non-issue?
> 
> 
> 
> hm?  i don't think so, no.  cults win when they're at majority, right?  so they can win even if there are still mafia remaining.
Click to expand...

If it doesn't say in the wincon that town and cult wins are mutually exclusive then /shrug


----------



## tbh²

'scum' gets used as shorthand for antitown but i don't really want to say that that extends to cults tbh
-m


----------



## Zori

Mist1422 said:


> hardclaim town cult leader
> 
> not really, sorry for disappointing y'all


Is this Naive Cop but all their checks are correct


----------



## tbh²

tbh² said:


> 'scum' gets used as shorthand for antitown but i don't really want to say that that extends to cults tbh
> -m


or to the word 'mafia'



Seshas said:


> If it doesn't say in the wincon that town and cult wins are mutually exclusive then /shrug


i think skylar/koko/i were saying that stamping out cults would be fairly positive considering that cults sap town PRs + are fastmoving aiui
-m


----------



## Trebek

tbh² said:


> 'scum' gets used as shorthand for antitown but i don't really want to say that that extends to cults tbh
> -m


yeah, if my rolecard said “scum” i would wonder if it also included cults, but it does actually specify “mafia”

i think i can vibe with at least some of the immunities being red herrings tbh


----------



## kyeugh

Seshas said:


> kyeugh said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Seshas said:
> 
> 
> 
> Wait, if town wins when all mafia are eliminated, does that make cults a non-issue?
> 
> 
> 
> hm?  i don't think so, no.  cults win when they're at majority, right?  so they can win even if there are still mafia remaining.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> If it doesn't say in the wincon that town and cult wins are mutually exclusive then /shrug
Click to expand...

 i can't know this without being a cult member, but i'm pretty sure town and cult wins are pretty much mutually exclusive as a rule.  i don't think it makes a ton of sense otherwise—the only cases in which i can see it mattering are a) that the game doesn't end immediately when the cult achieves majority, or b) the edge case that the cult achieves majority when the final mafia is killed.  otherwise a cult victory always precludes a town one as far as i can tell.


kokorico said:


> there's nothing saying mawile didn't use "mafia" as a shorthand for "antitown players"


 mm, big doubt tbh.  i don't think town has to kill every cult member to win, that seems really hard and is also just normal mafia but with recruiting and no kill power, in which case i'm not sure why both the terms "mafia" and "cult" would be in play.


----------



## kyeugh

tbh² said:


> i think skylar/koko/i were saying that stamping out cults would be fairly positive considering that cults sap town PRs + are fastmoving aiui


 btw, just for full clarity, i don't think we should really ever use a lynch on the cult.  i'm pretty positive there's a town vig to handle this and possibly other town killing powers, bc if there aren't, then town would have to balance taking out the mafia AND the cult with a single lynch per day in order to win, which seems a bit busted.


----------



## tbh²

i am currently struggling to not side-eye anyone saying that we shouldn't be putting any brainpower into cultspec tbh, i think if true it's definitionally anti-town
-m


----------



## tbh²

tbh² said:


> i am currently struggling to not side-eye anyone saying that we shouldn't be putting any brainpower into cultspec tbh, i think if true it's definitionally anti-town
> -m


and by my ~cursory google~ i think mafia would be less interested in figuring this out since cult recruiters tend to die when they recruit mafia


----------



## Trebek

tbh² said:


> tbh² said:
> 
> 
> 
> i am currently struggling to not side-eye anyone saying that we shouldn't be putting any brainpower into cultspec tbh, i think if true it's definitionally anti-town
> -m
> 
> 
> 
> and by my ~cursory google~ i think mafia would be less interested in figuring this out since cult recruiters tend to die when they recruit mafia
Click to expand...

yeah, that’s how cult normally operates in ToS from what i remember, although they are labeled vampires in that game

although normally that also comes with a specific town PR built to counter the mechanic, which leaves town free to focus on using lynches to find mafia


----------



## Zori

tbh² said:


> and by my ~cursory google~ i think mafia would be less interested in figuring this out since cult recruiters tend to die when they recruit mafia


I always thought it was the other way around, that mafia die when they get recruited
maybe that's just ToS speaking

In any case the wincon pretty much says that a mafia exists at least


----------



## qenya

oh, ok, I guess I misunderstood the finer distinction of "scum" vs "mafia". even so, if there _is_ a cult (which I suppose we don't have any reason to believe, if we're treating the immunities as potentially misleading), I don't see what the point would be if it could win alongside town.

so actually maybe not being mentioned in the town wincon is an argument for a cult _not_ existing, and the immunities (or at least RNP's) just being bogus?


----------



## Novae

tbh² said:


> i am currently struggling to not side-eye anyone saying that we shouldn't be putting any brainpower into cultspec tbh, i think if true it's definitionally anti-town
> -m


I'm strongly of the opinion that it's a large if tbqh


----------



## kyeugh

kokorico said:


> so actually maybe not being mentioned in the town wincon is an argument for a cult _not_ existing


 how so?  town doesn't have to eliminate the cult to win, it just has to prevent it from reaching majority in order to not lose.  it would be weird if the cult was in the town wincon imo.


----------



## tbh²

Trebek said:


> yeah, that’s how cult normally operates in ToS from what i remember, although they are labeled vampires in that game





Seshas said:


> I always thought it was the other way around, that mafia die when they get recruited
> maybe that's just ToS speaking


round 1. fight!
-m


----------



## tbh²

Mist1422 said:


> I'm strongly of the opinion that it's a large if tbqh


agree with you
but idk what else there is to talk about right now
-m


----------



## Novae

tbh² said:


> Mist1422 said:
> 
> 
> 
> I'm strongly of the opinion that it's a large if tbqh
> 
> 
> 
> agree with you
> but idk what else there is to talk about right now
> -m
Click to expand...

who scum


----------



## Novae

oh for what it's worth

RNP is my top town rn


----------



## kyeugh

Mist1422 said:


> RNP is my top town rn


 how come?
i think trebek is mine tbh.


----------



## qenya

kyeugh said:


> kokorico said:
> 
> 
> 
> so actually maybe not being mentioned in the town wincon is an argument for a cult _not_ existing
> 
> 
> 
> how so?  town doesn't have to eliminate the cult to win, it just has to prevent it from reaching majority in order to not lose.  it would be weird if the cult was in the town wincon imo.
Click to expand...

because in that situation, the cult's wincon wouldn't just be "reach majority", it would be "reach majority _before the town eliminate the mafia_", which is... kinda arbitrary, and also allows the cult to be harmed by bad play from the mafia

I may be overthinking this but I don't see how it makes sense (in mafia games in general, not just this one) for town to win when not all antitown factions have been eliminated


----------



## Novae

kyeugh said:


> Mist1422 said:
> 
> 
> 
> RNP is my top town rn
> 
> 
> 
> how come?
> i think trebek is mine tbh.
Click to expand...

well I messed up something mechanically that makes it slightly weaker

but I don't think his role is a wolf one and I also don't think it's faked


----------



## tbh²

kokorico said:


> I may be overthinking this but I don't see how it makes sense (in mafia games in general, not just this one) for town to win when not all antitown factions have been eliminated


i might not be following, but doesn't town just simply ... win when all mafia are down?
-m


----------



## Trebek

tbh² said:


> Trebek said:
> 
> 
> 
> yeah, that’s how cult normally operates in ToS from what i remember, although they are labeled vampires in that game
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Seshas said:
> 
> 
> 
> I always thought it was the other way around, that mafia die when they get recruited
> maybe that's just ToS speaking
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> round 1. fight!
> -m
Click to expand...

maybe i’m wrong tbhtbh i always tried to avoid playing in setups with vampires


----------



## Trebek

tbh² said:


> kokorico said:
> 
> 
> 
> I may be overthinking this but I don't see how it makes sense (in mafia games in general, not just this one) for town to win when not all antitown factions have been eliminated
> 
> 
> 
> i might not be following, but doesn't town just simply ... win when all mafia are down?
> -m
Click to expand...

i think what koko is saying is that “win when all mafia are eliminated” doesn’t capture the full scope of what town needs to do if there is also a cult that can win before all mafia are eliminated


----------



## Zori

Trebek said:


> maybe i’m wrong tbhtbh i always tried to avoid playing in setups with vampires


same but occasionally they crop up in all any


----------



## kyeugh

kokorico said:


> because in that situation, the cult's wincon wouldn't just be "reach majority", it would be "reach majority _before the town eliminate the mafia_", which is... kinda arbitrary, and also allows the cult to be harmed by bad play from the mafia
> 
> I may be overthinking this but I don't see how it makes sense (in mafia games in general, not just this one) for town to win when not all antitown factions have been eliminated


 i mean, that just comes down to "achieve your win condition before the game ends," which i think is implicit for every possible win condition.

town and mafia are diametrically opposed because town can ONLY win when the mafia are gone, and mafia can ONLY win by killing townies, but that's not the case with the cult.  they're only "anti-town" insofar as that their win condition is at odds with town's, since it ends the game and prevents a town victory; but they don't have to achieve that by harming/killing town since the mechanism by which they approach majority is constructive (induction), not destructive (killing).


----------



## qenya

kokorico said:


> I may be overthinking this


inb4 "you always overthink things"



Trebek said:


> tbh² said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> kokorico said:
> 
> 
> 
> I may be overthinking this but I don't see how it makes sense (in mafia games in general, not just this one) for town to win when not all antitown factions have been eliminated
> 
> 
> 
> i might not be following, but doesn't town just simply ... win when all mafia are down?
> -m
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> i think what koko is saying is that “win when all mafia are eliminated” doesn’t capture the full scope of what town needs to do if there is also a cult that can win before all mafia are eliminated
Click to expand...

yes, this, and also it's unfair on the cult if poor play from the mafia harms their chance of winning (by reducing the amount of time they have in which to reach a majority)


----------



## Trebek

ok this isn’t important but i was curious so i googled it again

Mist wins round one, in ToS the cult kills their target if either a) the target is mafia or b) the cult has reached cap (4 in ToS’s case)


----------



## tbh²

i was going off of mafiascum tbh since forum.
-m


----------



## qenya

kokorico said:


> yes, this, and also it's unfair on the cult if poor play from the mafia harms their chance of winning (by reducing the amount of time they have in which to reach a majority)


though as I hit post it occurred to me the same thing could equally apply to non-faction third parties like a jester, which nobody seems to complain about much, so maybe I _am_ overthinking


----------



## Trebek

yeah i know in ToS towns wincon is always “win when all threats to town are eliminated” but this isn’t ToS :p


----------



## tbh²

Trebek said:


> yeah i know in ToS towns wincon is always “win when all threats to town are eliminated” but this isn’t ToS :p


yeah
and town has a wincon specifically saying it's mafia, not all threats, right now
-m


----------



## Trebek

kokorico said:


> kokorico said:
> 
> 
> 
> yes, this, and also it's unfair on the cult if poor play from the mafia harms their chance of winning (by reducing the amount of time they have in which to reach a majority)
> 
> 
> 
> though as I hit post it occurred to me the same thing could equally apply to non-faction third parties like a jester, which nobody seems to complain about much, so maybe I _am_ overthinking
Click to expand...

oh shoot yeah i didn’t think about it like that

like, aliens can also be screwed over by poor mafia play 

hmm ok maybe i vibe with cult now then even if rolecard doesn’t mention it


----------



## qenya

Trebek said:


> hmm ok maybe i vibe with cult now then even if rolecard doesn’t mention it


well, it's still the case that the only piece of evidence we have in favour of a cult existing is RNP's passive, which may or may not be deliberately misleading


----------



## Trebek

kokorico said:


> Trebek said:
> 
> 
> 
> hmm ok maybe i vibe with cult now then even if rolecard doesn’t mention it
> 
> 
> 
> well, it's still the case that the only piece of evidence we have in favour of a cult existing is RNP's passive, which may or may not be deliberately misleading
Click to expand...

true

i guess a better way to phrase my logic is
“i can vibe with the possibility of cult existing as opposed to just 100% believing it’s a red herring”


----------



## RedneckPhoenix

Mist1422 said:


> oh for what it's worth
> 
> RNP is my top town rn


shit that's not supposed to happen how do i undo this


----------



## Zori

I'd say the cult discussion could probably use a reread because I was head-fuzzy during the majority of it


----------



## Butterfree

I'm kind of inclined towards the immunities being red herrings, or at least _most_ of them - theoretically there could be, like, one real thing that one person is immune to, but everyone else has different immunities designed so that people can't actually tell which one's real?


----------



## storm

I am really disappointed that I thought I had something helpful to share and no it's just part of an endless array of potential red herrings, and I am but a helpless fish caught amidst them

which makes the anonymous whisper more interesting to me if it's the one concrete sign of actual out of thread communication we do have?


----------



## Novae

also something else that's probably less worth bringing up than not


----------



## tbh²

Seshas said:


> I think mewt said something about how I read as similar to tarot. Does the fact you were wolf change your perception of that?


fwiw i was a dead townie in tarot and for the entirety of d1 i was sure you were mafia because you were so different from what i perceived as your meta, so i think that mewt isn’t seeing things there


kyeugh said:


> Trebek said:
> 
> 
> 
> yeah should have specified, i’m leaning much towards world B, but wanted to acknowledge both possibilities
> 
> 
> 
> i don't think it's a possibility.  my role pm says that i win when all mafia are eliminated.  doesn't yours?
Click to expand...

one thing that passed through my mind is: what if there is a mafia…consisting of, like, one or two people only. and the rest is all true
before anything i must say i’m more inclined to believe that these immunities are all red herrings and we have a normal mafia somewhere, but depending on how things work out i might change my view


Seshas said:


> kyeugh said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Seshas said:
> 
> 
> 
> Wait, if town wins when all mafia are eliminated, does that make cults a non-issue?
> 
> 
> 
> hm?  i don't think so, no.  cults win when they're at majority, right?  so they can win even if there are still mafia remaining.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> If it doesn't say in the wincon that town and cult wins are mutually exclusive then /shrug
Click to expand...

uuuuuh i might be showing my inexperience here but. i thought that cult wins and town wins were always mutually exclusive?


kokorico said:


> so actually maybe not being mentioned in the town wincon is an argument for a cult _not_ existing





kokorico said:


> because in that situation, the cult's wincon wouldn't just be "reach majority", it would be "reach majority _before the town eliminate the mafia_", which is... kinda arbitrary, and also allows the cult to be harmed by bad play from the mafia
> 
> I may be overthinking this but I don't see how it makes sense (in mafia games in general, not just this one) for town to win when not all antitown factions have been eliminated


uh. i’m… sorry, but. i don’t know where did you get the idea that town is informed of the existence of 3p in the wincon, like, ever. you were as town in tarot and in (part of) tvt as much as i was and you didn’t receive any notification that there was an alien, even though their win would result in a town loss. why would a cult be different.
it’s the same logic as to why town isn’t informed about the mafia’s wincon (parity vs majority). your wincon is only dependant on the others’ regarding which comes first. of course cult would have to reach majority _before town or mafia wins_, but isn’t the very core of mafia “being the first to achieve your wincon”?


Trebek said:


> i think what koko is saying is that “win when all mafia are eliminated” doesn’t capture the full scope of what town needs to do if there is also a cult that can win before all mafia are eliminated


same goes here, if there’s an alien they also can win before all mafia are eliminated and cause a town loss; this is not a good enough reason to cite aliens in the town wincon.


kokorico said:


> yes, this, and also it's unfair on the cult if poor play from the mafia harms their chance of winning (by reducing the amount of time they have in which to reach a majority)





kokorico said:


> though as I hit post it occurred to me the same thing could equally apply to non-faction third parties like a jester, which nobody seems to complain about much, so maybe I _am_ overthinking


…yes tbh. aliens, jesters, cultists and… well, most 3ps in general being dependant on the mafia not sucking is just part of the game.

- rari


----------



## tbh²

Mist1422 said:


> also something else that's probably less worth bringing up than not


the thread’s pretty silent right now; if you don’t think that this something else might hurt town if pointed at i believe you should bring it up tbh.
- rari


----------



## Novae

it might hurt town is my point

something else happened to me last night that I think I caught a soft for

however the effect isn't worth outing and I don't want to give scum an easier way to hunt it out from me


----------



## kyeugh

tbh² said:


> one thing that passed through my mind is: what if there is a mafia…consisting of, like, one or two people only. and the rest is all true
> before anything i must say i’m more inclined to believe that these immunities are all red herrings and we have a normal mafia somewhere, but depending on how things work out i might change my view


 this is kind of where i'm at rn, too.


----------



## Zori

tbh² said:


> fwiw i was a dead townie in tarot and for the entirety of d1 i was sure you were mafia because you were so different from what i perceived as your meta, so i think that mewt isn’t seeing things there


I guess, I meant more in relations between this game and tarot

And normally cults and town have mutually exclusive win conditions, but if it's not precluded by the stated win conditions in this game, it's technically possible
given the shenanigan leves


----------



## Zori

Seshas said:


> given the shenanigan leves


*level


----------



## Hydreigon25

Trebek said:


> inb4 there isn’t actually a mafia


^ this could explain why there were no n0 kills


----------



## Trebek

Hydreigon25 said:


> Trebek said:
> 
> 
> 
> inb4 there isn’t actually a mafia
> 
> 
> 
> ^ this could explain why there were no n0 kills
Click to expand...

that was sarcastic tbh, especially given the info on the role cards


----------



## Zori

Butterfree is slightly vibing I guess? Wouldn't go there on D1


----------



## tbh²

urk so EoD looms, does it not :'D


Seshas said:


> Butterfree is slightly vibing I guess? Wouldn't go there on D1


yeah bfree is in my like. never lynch d1 group tbh
-m


----------



## Mawile

tbh² said:


> urk so EoD looms, does it not :'D


*EoD is in approximately 26 hours.*


----------



## tbh²

how do you tag your other hydra head to yell at them for scaring you
@tbh² screw you
-m


----------



## JackPK

tbh² said:


> i'm wondering if there are like. multiple people who even share any 'immunity'? raritini has a thus-far unique ""immunity"" ... i think if EVERYONE has differently-referenced ones it's likelier it's all just a ruse lol
> -m


confirming I also have a thus-far unique immunity tacked onto my role: immunity to being recruited by mafia



Trebek said:


> inb4 there isn’t actually a mafia


my immunity confirms that either mafia exists or immunities are bullshit (or both)


----------



## tbh²

JackPK said:


> tbh² said:
> 
> 
> 
> i'm wondering if there are like. multiple people who even share any 'immunity'? raritini has a thus-far unique ""immunity"" ... i think if EVERYONE has differently-referenced ones it's likelier it's all just a ruse lol
> -m
> 
> 
> 
> confirming I also have a thus-far unique immunity tacked onto my role: immunity to being recruited by mafia
> 
> 
> 
> Trebek said:
> 
> 
> 
> inb4 there isn’t actually a mafia
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> my immunity confirms that either mafia exists or immunities are bullshit (or both)
Click to expand...

i can’t tell if you’re being serious or not :'D
- rari


----------



## JackPK

I am being completely serious


----------



## Zori

If you have any question about any reads I make feel free to ask, I'll try to clarify/work out/stuff
just I might answer later because tired

and no I do not think there is room in this town for a cult and a mafia that recruits people


----------



## Mawile

Current vote history, with active votes bolded:

*Seshas voted kokorico (#192)
kyeugh voted kokorico (#234)*
Mist1422 voted Mawile (#313)
Seshas voted Mawile (#315)


----------



## kyeugh

JackPK said:


> tbh² said:
> 
> 
> 
> i'm wondering if there are like. multiple people who even share any 'immunity'? raritini has a thus-far unique ""immunity"" ... i think if EVERYONE has differently-referenced ones it's likelier it's all just a ruse lol
> -m
> 
> 
> 
> confirming I also have a thus-far unique immunity tacked onto my role: immunity to being recruited by mafia
> 
> 
> 
> Trebek said:
> 
> 
> 
> inb4 there isn’t actually a mafia
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> my immunity confirms that either mafia exists or immunities are bullshit (or both)
Click to expand...

bruh


----------



## Despicable Meme

we are immune to being loverised according to our pm

there's justification in flavor but my personal hc is that me and mf are good enough hydra partners that we don't need anyone else


----------



## Trebek

Despicable Meme said:


> we are immune to being loverised according to our pm
> 
> there's justification in flavor but my personal hc is that me and mf are good enough hydra partners that we don't need anyone else


i love this tbh


----------



## RedneckPhoenix

i'm a fuckin moron i just went into the roleplaying forum and wondered where this thread was


----------



## Mawile

RedneckPhoenix said:


> i'm a fuckin moron i just went into the roleplaying forum and wondered where this thread was


feel free to roleplay in this thread if you want it'll be funny


----------



## kyeugh

Mawile said:


> RedneckPhoenix said:
> 
> 
> 
> i'm a fuckin moron i just went into the roleplaying forum and wondered where this thread was
> 
> 
> 
> feel free to roleplay in this thread if you want it'll be funny
Click to expand...

*pounces u*


----------



## Mawile

kyeugh said:


> Mawile said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RedneckPhoenix said:
> 
> 
> 
> i'm a fuckin moron i just went into the roleplaying forum and wondered where this thread was
> 
> 
> 
> feel free to roleplay in this thread if you want it'll be funny
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *pounces u*
Click to expand...

*is pounced*


----------



## RedneckPhoenix

Mawile said:


> RedneckPhoenix said:
> 
> 
> 
> i'm a fuckin moron i just went into the roleplaying forum and wondered where this thread was
> 
> 
> 
> feel free to roleplay in this thread if you want it'll be funny
Click to expand...

yr implying i don't roleplay as someone who is happy all the time


----------



## kyeugh

Mawile said:


> kyeugh said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mawile said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RedneckPhoenix said:
> 
> 
> 
> i'm a fuckin moron i just went into the roleplaying forum and wondered where this thread was
> 
> 
> 
> feel free to roleplay in this thread if you want it'll be funny
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *pounces u*
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *is pounced*
Click to expand...

well, that’s enough of that for one game.


----------



## Hydreigon25

*Fires a Dragon Pulse at nothing in particular*


----------



## Despicable Meme

Despicable Meme said:


> we are immune to being loverised according to our pm
> 
> there's justification in flavor but my personal hc is that me and mf are good enough hydra partners that we don't need anyone else









having several pages to catch up to sucks for a variety of reasons but the freshly relevant one is that people figure out/point out the exact things you were thinking of- but yeah, the long and narrow of it is that cults are a lot easier to conceptualize if you compare them to aliens. no, town PMs don't normally state "kill the mafia and don't flip the alien"; yes, aliens normally win the game by themselves and deprive other factions of the win if they take it; yes, it usually matters for town to dispose of aliens one way or another; and yes, being third-party can leave you in the wind if one of the other factions loses too quickly. (I wouldn't even call it a design issue per se because that's more or less an inherent issue of mafia. town players and mafia players are, too, passible of losing just because someone on their faction sucked and there was nothing they could do about it)

(as for cult-mafia interactions, since those are more or less their own thing: theorically, there's not a strict prohibition on cults inducting mafiosi, but this is well known to create the extremely unfair scenario known as cultafia, so it's usually good game design practice to prevent mafia inductions to cult one way or another. now, there's no guarantee that there is any such prohibition in place on this specific setup -- although it's fair to assume there must be one unless there's reason to assume otherwise -- and even if there is, there's not much distinguishing what exactly it is. sometimes, cult attempting to induct mafia results in people dying, but sometimes, it just flat out doesn't work)

that said, we'd uncovered enough immunities to pin down half the setup's weight in players before a few more were claimed, so yeah, it seems exorbitantly unlikely to me that they're all honest. props to mawile if they somehow are, but, yeah. the question of whether they're are all false, or some are true, is a dicier one, but it ultimately leaves us back at square one; "there may or may not be a cult" is the exact paradigm that we start the game from.

oh well; *Mawile* can't stop _all_ of us voting to lynch him, right-


----------



## Hydreigon25

aww @kyeugh you ended the roleplay party early


----------



## tbh²

Hydreigon25 said:


> aww @kyeugh you ended the roleplay party early


*locks eyes, waves tail* we don’t need her to roleplay… *mrrrrrr*
- rari


----------



## tbh²

i'm quitting this fucking hydra
-m


----------



## Mawile

if you yeet me i'll win and everyone else will lose
(jk i'll just take the next highest vote count)


----------



## Hydreigon25

wow is that a new record for one of two people that hydras an account giving up in a mafia game ?


----------



## Despicable Meme

Mawile said:


> if you yeet me i'll win and everyone else will lose
> (jk i'll just take the next highest vote count)


----------



## Mawile

Despicable Meme said:


> Mawile said:
> 
> 
> 
> if you yeet me i'll win and everyone else will lose
> (jk i'll just take the next highest vote count)
Click to expand...

how did you figure out that i'm secretly a player in this game-


----------



## storm

*pushes *mawile* in the way of the dragon pulse!* (:<


----------



## qenya

Despicable Meme said:


> that said, we'd uncovered enough immunities to pin down half the setup's weight in players before a few more were claimed, so yeah, it seems exorbitantly unlikely to me that they're all honest. props to mawile if they somehow are, but, yeah. the question of whether they're are all false, or some are true, is a dicier one, but it ultimately leaves us back at square one; "there may or may not be a cult" is the exact paradigm that we start the game from.


well, here's some spec that may help with that

here are the claims so far:

it seems that almost everyone's relate to being immune to being forced to acquire some sort of role. the odd ones out are Trebek's (being set on fire, whatever that means) and Seshas's (being prevented from targeting her own team). mine also falls into the latter category but I don't want to reveal it rn.

if you asked me to speculate about what mawile might have been thinking when he wrote these roles, I would guess that the immunities to acquiring roles are there to pad out the numbers so that everyone has an "immunity", as cover for the small number of people (the "odd ones out") who have an actually mechanically useful passive.

(admittedly this is more just intuition than a substantiated thesis but I think it's at least more plausible than "there's a masonry and a neighbourhood and a lover pair and a roleswapper and a cult-")


----------



## Hydreigon25

*Uses a quick Dragon Tail to get storm to move out of the way before Mawile can be pushed into the dragon pulse*


----------



## Zori

meow


----------



## qenya

*flaps around in a panic trying to get away from the hungry cats*


----------



## Trebek

kokorico said:


> if you asked me to speculate about what mawile might have been thinking when he wrote these roles, I would guess that the immunities to acquiring roles are there to pad out the numbers so that everyone has an "immunity", as cover for the small number of people (the "odd ones out") who have an actually mechanically useful passive.


i think this is where i am at as well with this whole extravaganza


----------



## qenya

Mawile said:


> if you yeet me i'll win and everyone else will lose
> (jk i'll just take the next highest vote count)


I was tempted to use my Mawile-is-an-alien post from TVT as copypasta here, but good god it's cringey, even if you have the benefit of knowing in advance that it was an attempted snakewhistle D:


----------



## RedneckPhoenix

*redneckphoenix*

you guys are making me remember my old posts and that's just not fair


----------



## qenya

mawile coming up with the setup:


----------



## Despicable Meme




----------



## Trebek

Despicable Meme said:


>


jack of ALL trades


----------



## RedneckPhoenix

Trebek said:


> Despicable Meme said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jack of ALL trades
Click to expand...

hrmm.

*jackpk*


----------



## Zori

I have decided that a mindmeld with mist on the RNP read is a bad reason to TR him
I'm kind of eh on VM tbh


----------



## RedneckPhoenix

go mindmeld yourself


----------



## Zori

RedneckPhoenix said:


> go mindmeld yourself


I personally find it rather easy to think the same things as myself


----------



## Trebek

Seshas said:


> RedneckPhoenix said:
> 
> 
> 
> go mindmeld yourself
> 
> 
> 
> I personally find it rather easy to think the same things as myself
Click to expand...

that makes one of us tbh


----------



## Zori

What if I just started purring the rest of the game
that's about the level of brain I am at currently


----------



## tbh²

Seshas said:


> What if I just started purring the rest of the game
> that's about the level of brain I am at currently


oh so we’re back at RPing
- rari


----------



## Zori

tbh² said:


> oh so we’re back at RPing
> - rari


_purrs contentedly_


----------



## JackPK

kokorico said:


> View attachment 713


remind me of this post in a few days/couple of weeks when this game is over, bc I will laugh out loud if the scum team is exactly Keldeo/VM/Emmy/Butterfree/Hydreigon


----------



## JackPK

oh why does it just say "view attachment" instead of showing the actual image in the quote box :/


----------



## tbh²

JackPK said:


> oh why does it just say "view attachment" instead of showing the actual image in the quote box :/


i think that happens when the quoted image is hosted in the forums as an attachment instead of hotlinked
might be wrong, though
- rari


----------



## tbh²

figured we should tier it up now that there's less than 24h to EoD :O
mewtini's list unordered within tiers, rari's /is/ ordered


Spoiler: rari’s tierlist



*The Free Encyclopedia™*
tbh²

*featured articles*
qva

*reliable sources*
jack
trebek
mist
storm

*[dubious – discuss]*
bfree
koko
vm
hydreigon

*[citation needed]*
rnp
hmf

*marked for deletion*
seshas

*This article related to a mafia player is a stub.*
emmy
keldeo





Spoiler: mewt's tierlist









tbh²






skylar, jack






kokorico, trebek, mist, RNP, storm






bfree, hydreigon






hmf, seshas






VM, emmy, keldeo


- tbh²


----------



## RedneckPhoenix

get it. it's funny because someone said jack of all trades and i voted jack.


----------



## Trebek

tbh² said:


> figured we should tier it up now that there's less than 24h to EoD :O
> mewtini's list unordered within tiers, rari's /is/ ordered
> 
> 
> Spoiler: rari’s tierlist
> 
> 
> 
> *The Free Encyclopedia™*
> tbh²
> 
> *featured articles*
> qva
> 
> *reliable sources*
> jack
> trebek
> mist
> storm
> 
> *[dubious – discuss]*
> bfree
> koko
> vm
> hydreigon
> 
> *[citation needed]*
> rnp
> hmf
> 
> *marked for deletion*
> seshas
> 
> *This article related to a mafia player is a stub.*
> emmy
> keldeo
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler: mewt's tierlist
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> tbh²
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> skylar, jack
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> kokorico, trebek, mist, RNP, storm
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bfree, hydreigon
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> hmf, seshas
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> VM, emmy, keldeo
> 
> 
> - tbh²


please stop i cant take any more of these tier labels

theyre too good


----------



## JackPK

tbh² said:


> figured we should tier it up now that there's less than 24h to EoD :O
> mewtini's list unordered within tiers, rari's /is/ ordered
> 
> 
> Spoiler: rari’s tierlist
> 
> 
> 
> *The Free Encyclopedia™*
> tbh²
> 
> *featured articles*
> qva
> 
> *reliable sources*
> jack
> trebek
> mist
> storm
> 
> *[dubious – discuss]*
> bfree
> koko
> vm
> hydreigon
> 
> *[citation needed]*
> rnp
> hmf
> 
> *marked for deletion*
> seshas
> 
> *This article related to a mafia player is a stub.*
> emmy
> keldeo
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler: mewt's tierlist
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> tbh²
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> skylar, jack
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> kokorico, trebek, mist, RNP, storm
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bfree, hydreigon
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> hmf, seshas
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> VM, emmy, keldeo
> 
> 
> - tbh²


So if I'm reading this right, the two of you put pretty much everyone in approximately the same order-ish except koko and RNP ("fine" to mewt, lower tiers to rari) and VM ("dubious" to rari, no read to mewt)? Can y'all elaborate about why you differ on those folks or does it basically just boil down to unexplainable gut reads?


----------



## kyeugh

tbh² said:


> figured we should tier it up now that there's less than 24h to EoD :O
> mewtini's list unordered within tiers, rari's /is/ ordered
> 
> 
> Spoiler: rari’s tierlist
> 
> 
> 
> *The Free Encyclopedia™*
> tbh²
> 
> *featured articles*
> qva
> 
> *reliable sources*
> jack
> trebek
> mist
> storm
> 
> *[dubious – discuss]*
> bfree
> koko
> vm
> hydreigon
> 
> *[citation needed]*
> rnp
> hmf
> 
> *marked for deletion*
> seshas
> 
> *This article related to a mafia player is a stub.*
> emmy
> keldeo
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler: mewt's tierlist
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> tbh²
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> skylar, jack
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> kokorico, trebek, mist, RNP, storm
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bfree, hydreigon
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> hmf, seshas
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> VM, emmy, keldeo
> 
> 
> - tbh²


can you guys explain your seshas read?


----------



## tbh²

JackPK said:


> So if I'm reading this right, the two of you put pretty much everyone in approximately the same order-ish except koko and RNP ("fine" to mewt, lower tiers to rari) and VM ("dubious" to rari, no read to mewt)? Can y'all elaborate about why you differ on those folks or does it basically just boil down to unexplainable gut reads?


tbh our views are very similar on most of the roster, yeah. first and foremost i want to clarify that the [_dubious – discuss_] tier is my null pile, and not…dubious. maybe i should’ve thought this through better lol

but i digress. the koko read difference is given by a difference in skepticism regarding the culttalk between em and trebek. we both agree that the interaction is most likely v/v and koko is just a confused townie, but we also both agree that if there’s a wolf in that interaction, that is almost surely koko. that is because the whole discussion was mostly fueled by em, revolved around a spurious notion (that the town should be warned about the existence of 3ps in the wincon, which…doesn’t really make any sense) and was an effective distraction of the town from what really concerns us more – achieving our wincon (i.e. sorting out mafia) –, taking about one page and a half of real estate in the process. the bottom line is that mewt is giving em more benefit of the doubt than i am. and to be fair, she mentioned that her koko read was swinging wildly and she moved eir name a lot around her tierlist as she compiled it.

the rnp read is something similar. my read is in association with hmf, who we both are suspecting for a plethora of reasons – posts that just don’t make sense, apparently gratuitous shading, misrepresentation and longposts that only discuss very NAI mech stuff. i believe that rnp’s one-shot power is likely to be a ruse, a mere ploy for him to clear his wolfmate d1. i will bite myself in the tongue if hmf posts the copypasta declaring to be mafia-aligned one minute before EoD and/or forgets about it and gets modkilled (or worse, if one of them die and flip green), but i’m wearing that tinfoil hat. mewt agrees that hmf is looking bad, but thinks that she’d rather revisit rnp considering the association read after EoD.

finally, the vm read is the simpler: i think that his second post looks good in a way that shows that he actually made an effort to read a bit of the thread and form his own reads. it’s absolutely NAI, but it shows effort and is enough for me to move him from the no idea pile to the null pile. mewt is awaiting more posts to form a preliminary read.



kyeugh said:


> can you guys explain your seshas read?


our seshas reads are very similar – so similar, in fact, that i am going to quote what mewt sent me about her seshasthoughts and work from there:


			
				mewtini said:
			
		

> on seshas, i'm oscillating a bit because there are a few posts of hers that i liked/struck me as being vaguely towny / being in her tarot meta ... like her starting out being afraid to read us/getting pocketed by us in 23 but later getting off of the hedge in 245, somewhat. also her voicing that she was afraid of getting storm pocketed again in 154 felt good in the moment
> 
> on the other hand i think that that's all pretty much fakeable as any alignment (especially for seshas, who iirc has said that she channels town as wolf, and is also just a good enough player to make any of these comments 'offhand'). it bothers me a lot that she seems so handwavey about the cultspec - i think it's one thing to feel like the cult thing is a hoax (mist said as much and i actually liked that comment) but it's another to acknowledge it and be like, shrug, when aiui it would actually be worthwhile to at least /think/ about it if you are town and find it a possibility. i think it's not really a great look for seshas to be so nonchalant about it, especially when mafia likely have less reason to care about a cult since the existence of such would fuck up the town wincon and when mafia passively kill cult recruiters. relatedly, her attitude wrt trebek kind of threw me a bit as well (in that she was actively reading him as a cultist, but was all but happy to let him vibe, before later actively TRing him)
> 
> also i was initially fine with her vote on koko because i think tcodf could stand to start the voting phase a bit earlier, but on reread i'm like. kind of eh about it and think it was a potentially-agendaed vote. iirc koko wasn't really the only, or even the main, person pushing cultspec and seshas pointing out koko "rushing" a stance on things ... felt like seshas rushing a stance/vote in and of itself


besides everything that mewt addressed above, there are also a couple of posts of hers that can definitely be read as LAMIST; the first being 21, where she talks about randing town five times in a row (the fifth would be this present game – this is admittedly a bit of a weak evidence, but it adds to the picture) and the second being 305, quoted here fully:


Seshas said:


> I am immune to any actions that would cause me to be unable to target any players on the same team as me, which would be >rand a mafia role because the vast majority of mafia roles don't benefit from targeting their teammates


if it is not clear, our point is that making a post solely to talk about how wolfy one’s role is is nothing but LAMIST.

what i differ in my seshasread is that i don’t give much credit to the towntells that mewt pointed out in the first paragraph because i believe that wouldn’t be hard for seshas to fake – the tier title was very accurate this time when i named it _marked for deletion_. still, we both agree that *seshas* is a very decent counterwagon and a good place to put a bit of pressure on at this time of the Day.

- rari


----------



## RedneckPhoenix

mmmmmmmm i don't like this post
*tbh^2*


----------



## kyeugh

hmmm, ok. i like those thoughts even if i don’t quite agree.

i kind of like the idea of competing seshas/koko wagons because i believe they’re probably anti-aligned. do you think they could be v/v or w/w?


----------



## RedneckPhoenix

like yeah the hmf thing is easily falsifiable but, like, if i'm gonna pull the wool over someone's eyes, it's either going to be extremely logical or batshit fucking insane. why would i claim such an uncommon role and somehow get mf, local Experienced Mafia Player, to play along with it.


----------



## RedneckPhoenix

as scum i like to play in the background until i fuck people's days up completely, why would i claim, d1, a detrimental town role with a one-shot that seems like it's too good to be true unless it WAS


----------



## RedneckPhoenix

i'm going to bed but i'm not done talking abt this


----------



## kyeugh

i feel like i have seen the word “falsifiable” get misused a bunch of times in the last couple games and it has confused me more than once. i’m gonna be That Guy and point out that “falsifiable” means “possible to prove false,” not “possible to fake.”


----------



## tbh²

kyeugh said:


> hmmm, ok. i like those thoughts even if i don’t quite agree.
> 
> i kind of like the idea of competing seshas/koko wagons because i believe they’re probably anti-aligned. do you think they could be v/v or w/w?


i also think they're antialigned tbh, seshas voting on koko in that way kind of doesn't make sense to me in a w/w scenario, though i think they could very well be v/v lol


RedneckPhoenix said:


> like yeah the hmf thing is easily falsifiable but, like, if i'm gonna pull the wool over someone's eyes, it's either going to be extremely logical or batshit fucking insane. why would i claim such an uncommon role and somehow get mf, local Experienced Mafia Player, to play along with it.


ah, fwiw, rari's tinfoil isn't that you tricked hmf into it, it's that she thinks it could've been a wolfcred move
as she said earlier i think we are pretty much vibing just waiting. this is more a paranoia thought than anything and i don't really want to do anything with it until later, and what you said is essentially why you're placed where you are in my list - i think the fakeclaim doesn't really make that much sense

i am curious to hear if there's something that you dislike about the post other than just rari tinfoiling you w though
-m


----------



## tbh²

tbh² said:


> it's that she thinks it could've been a wolfcred move


where you and hmf are w/w together


----------



## JackPK

it is 3am and I have already stayed up way too late and I will have to ISO koko and Seshas when I wake up to see which one (if either) I want to put my vote on. but tentatively, prior to ISOing, I think I'm down for koko/Seshas wagons toDay

personally I feel like waiting to attempt to sort RNP and H&M&F until toMorrow so we can see what happens to H&M&F at EOD; nothing happening would put both of them in my null pile (could all be true, could all be wolf theater) whereas Something happening would be easier to sort


----------



## Despicable Meme

i'm not able to pour as much energy into this game as I was hoping so mf might take the wheel more here but right now im just like -____________-



tbh² said:


> posts that just don’t make sense, apparently gratuitous shading


bold of you to assume i have the capability to make sense on a good day. i'd be interesting in hearing specific quotes if you have anything you want to elaborate on because i really don't see in our posts what you're seeing i think.

I think MF and I might also have a fusion dynamic that is different from our independent dynamics - keep that in mind while reading us

sorry i just came here to talk about ourselves, i haven't looked into anyone else's situation closely enough to comment. i just feel like the push on us is forced, and a wolf has gotta be steering/encouraging the conversation, but that's just from my perspective.


----------



## Despicable Meme

i think the strat i like right now is posting all my lil gut scumleans and letting town do what they will with them. also ik mf said something about posting reads w/o checking w me and it's ok cause I don't disagree like enough to make a Deal out of it

that said, i'm having some difficult kyeugh vibes right now. i just.... she just feels more fake than she has in previous games where she was town? not vibing.


----------



## Keldeo

Oorgh I'm really sorry to not be present, have not been feeling mafia at all. I should be here to catch up at some point before EOD.


----------



## tbh²

Keldeo said:


> Oorgh I'm really sorry to not be present, have not been feeling mafia at all. I should be here to catch up at some point before EOD.


good to see you here! take your time, king. <3
- rari


----------



## tbh²

Despicable Meme said:


> i'd be interesting in hearing specific quotes if you have anything you want to elaborate on because i really don't see in our posts what you're seeing i think.


from the followup, it looks like this is just your strat atm and i wasn't accounting for that. but ... i just don't really love the emerging pattern of popping into thread to voice sort of ... unsubstantiated scumleans (there is other discussion as well, like 401 on cultspec, but that is what i'm seeing as NAI) and i think that those are coming off more like shade than an attempt to help solve


Spoiler: quotes






Despicable Meme said:


> seshas is... acting really weird? it's hard to say what that means alignment-wise, especially being that we notoriously haven't seen seshas' wolfgame yet.





Despicable Meme said:


> mild SL on Trebek right now but don't take it seriously
> just posting for posterity





neither of these really help town and i think i even asked for elaboration on the first thing and never got it, so i hope you understand why rari and i are kind of hmmmming right now


Despicable Meme said:


> i just feel like the push on us is forced, and a wolf has gotta be steering/encouraging the conversation, but that's just from my perspective.


this is kind of ??? to me, like, i'm not really sure where you think a wolf would be 'steering' when it's like ... raritini posted their reads 10 posts ago and there has been (thus far very limited) comment on it

@.herbe i know that you're aware that mechspec is an easy fallback for a wolf, and that's essentially what i'm basing this on - that combined with the possibly-discrediting reads, and in the absence of <other pro-town things> thus far is why you are where you are for now

on that note, can you talk more about the skylar read?

-m


----------



## Despicable Meme

i should probably get a clear head and good night's sleep before coming back but tbh i get where you're coming from a lot better now. i'll be back before eod.


----------



## Despicable Meme

oh, the seshas thing was an mfthought, you'll have to reach her - i didn't think anything was particularly off with seshas
i'll elaborate once im rested and talk through my thoughts and hopefully that'll help me figure out if they're logical on my end


----------



## Vipera Magnifica

I'll be around for EoD probably, I've just been really busy lately. Okay, that's a lie; I've been addicted to playing Xenoblade Chronicles 2: Torna - The Golden Country. I probably won't be very present here until I've 100%ed the game, which I should be able to do today.

oh fwiw I have an immunity to something. I'd rather not say what that is, because I'd rather the person(s) who can do that something waste their action on me. toodles.


----------



## Hydreigon25

Vipera Magnifica said:


> oh fwiw I have an immunity to something. I'd rather not say what that is, because I'd rather the person(s) who can do that something waste their action on me. toodles.


seem suspect to me, that VM wants to be the bait on Day 1


----------



## Zori

tbh² said:


> figured we should tier it up now that there's less than 24h to EoD :O
> mewtini's list unordered within tiers, rari's /is/ ordered
> 
> 
> Spoiler: rari’s tierlist
> 
> 
> 
> *The Free Encyclopedia™*
> tbh²
> 
> *featured articles*
> qva
> 
> *reliable sources*
> jack
> trebek
> mist
> storm
> 
> *[dubious – discuss]*
> bfree
> koko
> vm
> hydreigon
> 
> *[citation needed]*
> rnp
> hmf
> 
> *marked for deletion*
> seshas
> 
> *This article related to a mafia player is a stub.*
> emmy
> keldeo
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler: mewt's tierlist
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> tbh²
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> skylar, jack
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> kokorico, trebek, mist, RNP, storm
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bfree, hydreigon
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> hmf, seshas
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> VM, emmy, keldeo
> 
> 
> - tbh²


Could you explain the townreads on jack/mist/storm?
My reads on HMF/RNP are mostly mech based, but I doubt it's ever W/W theater, and W/V resolves itself by EoD, which leads me to believe that HMF is likely V unless they out themselves


----------



## Zori

I also vaguely liked Hydreigon's mindset, they feel like they're trying to solve noturally and not propped up by teammates


----------



## Novae

Seshas said:


> him


_squint_


Keldeo said:


> Oorgh I'm really sorry to not be present, have not been feeling mafia at all. I should be here to catch up at some point before EOD.


keldeooooooo


----------



## Zori

*her


----------



## qenya

Seshas said:


> My reads on HMF/RNP are mostly mech based, but I doubt it's ever W/W theater, and W/V resolves itself by EoD, which leads me to believe that HMF is likely V unless they out themselves


I agree with waiting to EoD to let H&M&F and RNP resolve, but why do you "doubt it's ever W/W theater"? I don't see that we have any basis to guess one way or another on that.

My own reads are disappointingly bare, possibly because I keep second-guessing myself after the fiasco that was ACNH. But raritini's list is interesting to me because the two people at the top, Jack and Skylar, are also the two people I have noted down as possibly trying to subtly encourage PR claims (#179, #317) - granted, we _did_ then in fact all start claiming our immunities once we realised they were more useful for trying to figure out the setup than they were in themselves, but Jack's at least is more about the existence/identity of a roleblocker. So I would also be curious to hear about the reasoning on those.



tbh² said:


> mewtini said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> also i was initially fine with her vote on koko because i think tcodf could stand to start the voting phase a bit earlier, but on reread i'm like. kind of eh about it and think it was a potentially-agendaed vote. iirc koko wasn't really the only, or even the main, person pushing cultspec and seshas pointing out koko "rushing" a stance on things ... felt like seshas rushing a stance/vote in and of itself
Click to expand...

Regarding this, I initially interpreted Seshas' vote on me as a joke, for precisely the reasons you're indicating (the reasoning didn't make much sense in context, etc.) That left me slightly baffled when Skylar jumped on as well, but it was early in the Day and she didn't offer any basis either, so I just kinda shrugged and moved on. Are you hypothesising, then, that the wagon on me is entirely intentional and scum have a reason to want _me_, specifically, yeeted? Because that seems... slightly odd, I can't see any reason why that would be. Unless they rolecopped me and think my role particularly threatens them for some reason?


----------



## Zori

kokorico said:


> Seshas said:
> 
> 
> 
> My reads on HMF/RNP are mostly mech based, but I doubt it's ever W/W theater, and W/V resolves itself by EoD, which leads me to believe that HMF is likely V unless they out themselves
> 
> 
> 
> I agree with waiting to EoD to let H&M&F and RNP resolve, but why do you "doubt it's ever W/W theater"? I don't see that we have any basis to guess one way or another on that.
Click to expand...

RNP  and HMF only make sense as W/W if RNP's role is something completely different from advertised, otherwise why totally waste your 1-shot ability on a mafia? Based on the way RNP claimed, I don't think it's totally faked.


----------



## Hydreigon25

what is everyone's thoughts about VM up to now ?


----------



## Zori

Hydreigon25 said:


> what is everyone's thoughts about VM up to now ?


kind of a solid null, don't feel what I think rari said about the solving in that one post?


----------



## Zori

also what does "aiui" mean


----------



## tbh²

Hydreigon25 said:


> Vipera Magnifica said:
> 
> 
> 
> oh fwiw I have an immunity to something. I'd rather not say what that is, because I'd rather the person(s) who can do that something waste their action on me. toodles.
> 
> 
> 
> seem suspect to me, that VM wants to be the bait on Day 1
Click to expand...

... why?
for what it's worth i am in the same boat wrt revealing immunity.


Seshas said:


> Could you explain the townreads on jack/mist/storm?


jack just feels soooo out of wolf meta, i think that's largely why rari and i placed him there. i remember him being so careful in tarot as scum and he just seems so stoked to be playing here ;____; this could swing clearly but. he's contributing a lot more subjective opinion this time around which i get the impression he doesn't do (or doesn't like doing) as a wolf
mist is maybe closer to null in my TLs, i have a heard time reading her but i thiiiink that she maybe hedges more as scum (but acnh is a rough game to base it off of and it's the only time i've seen her wolfgame). i appreciate that she's been vocal/given material that she can be held accountable for (like stating outright that she thinks the cult is a hoax, that RNP is her top townread, etc) so for now she vibes
storm is a baby lean, i liked that they volunteered that thing about being immune to a neighborizer / the way in which they got sad about it potentially being a bogus immunity :'D


----------



## Zori

I'm going to back of from koko because I found myself unable to reevaluate properly which is probably a bad thing


----------



## tbh²

Seshas said:


> also what does "aiui" mean


as i understand it

also these have both been mewt


----------



## Zori

Seshas said:


> I'm going to back of from koko because I found myself unable to reevaluate properly which is probably a bad thing


not as in I'm going to stop wolf-reading him but as in I'm going to stop mentally pointing out why every post he makes is wolfy because it's probably wrong


----------



## Zori

I didn't get that read on jack but probably because I only did cursory reads on them in both Tarot and here
storm still pocket scare but they can definitely live for now


----------



## tbh²

kokorico said:


> My own reads are disappointingly bare, possibly because I keep second-guessing myself after the fiasco that was ACNH. But raritini's list is interesting to me because the two people at the top, Jack and Skylar, are also the two people I have noted down as possibly trying to subtly encourage PR claims (#179, #317)


i ... do not read either of posts in the way that you seem to. in 179 jack specifically says he wants to avoid spec to conceal PRs from the mafia (and in context he was actually _discouraging _trebek from that speculation) and i don't think skylar's is an attempt to draw out PRs at all

talked about jack read above, wrt skylar i think that she is towny off of tone and has put a decent amount into trying to like ... dispel some anxiety/reason about the setup. as mafia i think she likes letting town flail. she was a strong gut townread from rari and i sort of early on by tone and we're both a bit biased because we keep mindmelding with her about the cult talk (to the point of rari and i each writing out posts during that, only to see skylar had posted something similar). there is another thing she said that i think might make her ~lock to me but i want to wait a bit
-m


----------



## tbh²

Seshas said:


> not as in I'm going to stop wolf-reading him but as in I'm going to stop mentally pointing out why every post he makes is wolfy because it's probably wrong


i understand tbh. reading koko is hard for me too tbh.
-m


----------



## Zori

If tbh is V, I trust them on this read
if tbh is W, this isn't the type of read they'd make on a teammate
conclusion: kyeugh is V


----------



## tbh²

Hydreigon25 said:


> what is everyone's thoughts about VM up to now ?


precisely solid null from raritini tbh though i maybe like what he just said about immunities (probably just NAI though). up from 'no-read' from earlier because i feel spicy right now
-m


----------



## tbh²

tbh² said:


> has put a decent amount *of time* into


words,


----------



## tbh²

noting that after having slept on it i really don't think i like hmf's pushback on the like, offhand half-sentence read that rari gave on them, it feels sort of defensive and forced

i do think rnp's annoyance at raritinfoil might've been towny though. i guess rnp/hmf will resolve itself hopefully??
-m


----------



## tbh²

tbh² said:


> noting that after having slept on it i really don't think i like hmf's pushback on the like, offhand half-sentence read that rari gave on them, it feels sort of defensive and forced


by which i mean the reaction to rari's half-sentence read in 436 being characterized as a hard 'push' in 446 (especially weird to me is the wording they used / the fact that rari and i expressed not really wanting to touch that wagon since we're hoping it resolves)

-m


----------



## tbh²

kokorico said:


> Regarding this, I initially interpreted Seshas' vote on me as a joke, for precisely the reasons you're indicating (the reasoning didn't make much sense in context, etc.) That left me slightly baffled when Skylar jumped on as well, but it was early in the Day and she didn't offer any basis either, so I just kinda shrugged and moved on. Are you hypothesising, then, that the wagon on me is entirely intentional and scum have a reason to want _me_, specifically, yeeted? Because that seems... slightly odd, I can't see any reason why that would be. Unless they rolecopped me and think my role particularly threatens them for some reason?


i don't really think it's like, intentional, and also i'm conflicted because i villaread skylar right now :v but i didn't interpret seshas' vote as a joke, just a quickly-placed one, and was assuming skylar found something off with your tone or something and got on the wagon for now.

also getting antsy on my seshas read, i am interested in hearing other thoughts about it (@Despicable Meme, @kyeugh) because every time i interact with her in realtime lately i start townreading her. and then i go back and feel weird again.
kind of afraid of EoD because my other at all-strong wolflean is on hmf and we aren't going there toDay, i don't think i really have feelings right now about anyone else on the voting table
and now i am done sorry for taking up da page
-m


----------



## kyeugh

Despicable Meme said:


> sorry i just came here to talk about ourselves, i haven't looked into anyone else's situation closely enough to comment. i just feel like the push on us is forced, and a wolf has gotta be steering/encouraging the conversation, but that's just from my perspective.


 the “push” was just tbh² voicing suspicion. are you saying you think they’re a wolf?


kokorico said:


> Jack and Skylar, are also the two people I have noted down as possibly trying to subtly encourage PR claims


 it wasn’t subtle, i think it’s good for town to know as much about the setup as possible. i wasn’t urging anyone to claim their role, i was only urging them to share information they have about the setup (at no risk to themselves). the post you quoted even explains that—i’m interested in hearing why you think that’s scummy.

popping into say that i didn’t forget about my vote but i’m not changing it either.


----------



## tbh²

Hydreigon25 said:


> My thought process is simple, i Believe VM is trying to Challenge someone to waste an action That targets VM, ( baiting a town member < if VM is a mafia > or
> baiting a mafia member < if VM is town > assuming there's a One shot bulletproof or something similar )


i disagree. we all have immunities (presumably), he's just saying that he doesn't want to claim his - if it's like mine, then it's to an anti-town role - because he doesn't want to narrow down suitable targets for that role.
going off of the rolecards, it would seem that the possibilities are much, much wider than town hits (which i don't think he was even talking about) or mafia shots
-m


----------



## tbh²

i think i understand now what seshas is saying about hydrei being ~solvy though
-m


----------



## Trebek

tbh² said:


> tbh² said:
> 
> 
> 
> noting that after having slept on it i really don't think i like hmf's pushback on the like, offhand half-sentence read that rari gave on them, it feels sort of defensive and forced
> 
> 
> 
> by which i mean the reaction to rari's half-sentence read in 436 being characterized as a hard 'push' in 446 (especially weird to me is the wording they used / the fact that rari and i expressed not really wanting to touch that wagon since we're hoping it resolves)
> 
> -m
Click to expand...

sorta mindmelding on most/all of this: i was sorta thrown off by hmf's response to the longpost, especially because only a very small portion of it actually concerned them, but i think i want to go back and ISO seshas/koko first and see if rnp/hmf resolves any further, bc my gut wants to tell me that rnp is telling the truth about his role


----------



## tbh²

tbqh if the rnp/hmf connection didn't exist i'd be voting hmf right now for pressure's sake
btw @Hydreigon25 meant to ask this earlier. you said you'd played mafia before but i'm wondering how much / how you feel as each alignment?
-m


----------



## Trebek

tbh² said:


> Hydreigon25 said:
> 
> 
> 
> My thought process is simple, i Believe VM is trying to Challenge someone to waste an action That targets VM, ( baiting a town member < if VM is a mafia > or
> baiting a mafia member < if VM is town > assuming there's a One shot bulletproof or something similar )
> 
> 
> 
> i disagree. we all have immunities (presumably), he's just saying that he doesn't want to claim his - if it's like mine, then it's to an anti-town role - because he doesn't want to narrow down suitable targets for that role.
> going off of the rolecards, it would seem that the possibilities are much, much wider than town hits (which i don't think he was even talking about) or mafia shots
> -m
Click to expand...

where is this quote from tbh


----------



## tbh²

Trebek said:


> where is this quote from tbh


...
um ... i think they deleted it? it was initially the post directly above my reply
-m


----------



## tbh²

we should probably not be able to do that.
-m


----------



## Trebek

tbh² said:


> Trebek said:
> 
> 
> 
> where is this quote from tbh
> 
> 
> 
> ...
> um ... i think they deleted it? it was initially the post directly above my reply
> -m
Click to expand...

yeah thats what i was assuming? besides i dont think youre the kind of person to accidentally quote scum/masonchat

(for the record, i agree with what you were saying in that post, and also agree that immunities that could narrow down a target list shouldn't be revealed: i revealed mine mostly bc i felt the discussion needed more immunities talked about at that specific moment in time, but understand/support other people being more secretive about it)


----------



## tbh²

well. fwiw. that hydrei post was in reply to my "why" in 464.
-m


----------



## Trebek

and i also have difficulty reading VM's post as anything resembling a "challenge": if anything i would be afraid to target VM just in case he happens to be the one that resists my hypothetical PR


----------



## Hydreigon25

tbh² said:


> Hydreigon25 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Vipera Magnifica said:
> 
> 
> 
> oh fwiw I have an immunity to something. I'd rather not say what that is, because I'd rather the person(s) who can do that something waste their action on me. toodles.
> 
> 
> 
> seem suspect to me, that VM wants to be the bait on Day 1
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> ... why?
Click to expand...

my thought process is simple, i think that assuming there's at least either a town/or/mafia sided 1 shot bulletproof or something similar, < VM ( if town could try to bait the mafia into targeting VM therby wasting an action ), or if VM is Mafia then attempt to bait a town member to use the action against VM ) in other words VM is pretty much trying a Russian Roulette tactic


----------



## tbh²

agree with trebek across these last few posts


Hydreigon25 said:


> my thought process is simple, i think that assuming there's at least either a town/or/mafia sided 1 shot bulletproof or something similar, < VM ( if town could try to bait the mafia into targeting VM therby wasting an action ), or if VM is Mafia then attempt to bait a town member to use the action against VM ) in other words VM is pretty much trying a Russian Roulette tactic


well, i guess i already replied to this but will requote :'D


tbh² said:


> i disagree. we all have immunities (presumably), he's just saying that he doesn't want to claim his - if it's like mine, then it's to an anti-town role - because he doesn't want to narrow down suitable targets for that role.
> going off of the rolecards, it would seem that the possibilities are much, much wider than town hits (which i don't think he was even talking about) or mafia shots
> -m


----------



## tbh²

btw i wanna say for future cred that rari and i think we know hydreigon's flavor.


----------



## Trebek

tbh² said:


> btw i wanna say for future cred that rari and i think we know hydreigon's flavor.


will keep this noted for future reference

but yeah i think im just not seeing a) how VM is "challenging" a PR to target him or b) why thats necessarily a bad thing?


----------



## Trebek

ok so i went and ISO'd seshas and came back absolutely head frickin empty

well not entirely empty but i currently feel uncomfy with the fact that i understand what tbh said about seshas far more than i understand how i myself feel about seshas

will have to keep poking at this until i feel more independent lul


----------



## Trebek

although maybe something as simple as an ISO won’t cut it bc what wasn’t said is probably equally important to what was said


----------



## Trebek

ok last Thought before i go back and reread again and stop spamming thread:

i’m getting vaguely uncomfy vibes from hydre (even before the interaction from just earlier), but i don’t actually think it’s the kind of uncomfiness that leads to me SRing him/i can understand people reading it as solvy , so i Vibe for now


----------



## Zori

interacting with my wolfreads real-time always makes me lessen them, usually due to guilt reasons
so just evaluate whether the stuff they're doing is town-indicative or if they're just there
yes I am talking about myself in the 3rd person


----------



## tbh²

Trebek said:


> i’m getting vaguely uncomfy vibes from hydre (even before the interaction from just earlier), but i don’t actually think it’s the kind of uncomfiness that leads to me SRing him/i can understand people reading it as solvy , so i Vibe for now


i do too
but i'm chalking it up to culture shock/unfamiliarity
-m


----------



## Zori

[Trebek] - Cool

[kyeugh/Hydreigon25] - Wooloo
[Despicable Meme/RedneckPhoenix]

[tbh²] - Weh
[Mist1422/JackPK]

[Butterfree/storm] - Noot
[Keldeo/Vipera Magnifica/IndigoEmmy]
[kokorico]


----------



## Trebek

ok i keep trying to ISO and then getting confused bc tired brain low sleep

noticed earlier that people were mentioning seshas/koko potentially anti-aligned? i understand the thought process behind them being unlikely to be w/w, but was there logic behind them not being v/v? or is it just a Vibe that i missed out on


----------



## tbh²

if there was then i missed it as well, i'm just operating under the assumption that they're d1 unlikely to be w/w
-m


----------



## Trebek

tbh² said:


> if there was then i missed it as well, i'm just operating under the assumption that they're d1 unlikely to be w/w
> -m


alrighty

i just don’t want to accidentally sheep a conclusion that didn’t actually exist lmao


----------



## tbh²

i mean ftr i think there aren't many non-mech scenarios (mech scenarios being, like, counterclaim) that lead to a not v/v read
since a lot of conflict is just confused!town
-m


----------



## Novae

hey rarini how much did the two of you discuss before making those separate readslists?


----------



## tbh²

Mist1422 said:


> hey rarini how much did the two of you discuss before making those separate readslists?


we had just gotten/talked through the last 200 posts of thread together, so a decent amount
-m


----------



## Despicable Meme

hi guys, no minions because I am late-

the seshas read, right? I apologize for not following up on the aforementioned suspicion earlier, I just completely forgot I'd mentioned it in public- but ahem. while I don't think her _tone_ is much any different from previous games, I do think that, back in tarot where I last engaged with non-tvt-seshas, what she'd say was like, about half explained and sometimes too eager to read some things as scummy, but all made sense if thought was given. here, though, all of her cultspec (and subsequent mobspec based on other people's cultspec) came across at best like someone who's never played against a cult in their entire life, and I have a linger suspicion that seshas isn't such a person. willful ignorance is, to me, a fair bit more damning than this mystical change of tone with alignment that everyone expects and not all players will have. that said, there are quite a few more posts to work with now, so, I believe I will ISO and see if I come out of it with anything more firmly built

I'd like to be more solvy in general but, we are in D1, and this has been a relatively sleepy D1, so, there's not been terribly much to latch onto. although I suppose things just got livelier and will continue to buzz harder with EoD, so, exciting times; I have a lot of close backreading to do after I post this (although I'll also be doing as much live engagement as possible on another tab)

I suppose it also technically falls to me to explain what the other head do sometimes? I think he just misread quite a bit more intent-to-lynch on tbh²'s post than there de facto was. and it's like... myself, I don't blame people for tinfoiling wrt the RNP-powered clear, it's a reasonable precaution -- but it would be pretty weird if people were, in fact, trying to make a wagon out of that tinfoil plus feeble tonereads; if I'd misread the same things as herbe, I'd no doubt be as suspicious of tbh² as he was. but yeah, it's cool


----------



## tbh²

Despicable Meme said:


> here, though, all of her cultspec (and subsequent mobspec based on other people's cultspec) came across at best like someone who's never played against a cult in their entire life, and I have a linger suspicion that seshas isn't such a person. willful ignorance is, to me, a fair bit more damning than this mystical change of tone with alignment that everyone expects and not all players will have.


this is exactly how i feel ftr
-m


----------



## kyeugh

i'm not really sure i see what the problem with seshas's cult spec is.  can you guys point to specific posts?


----------



## tbh²

kyeugh said:


> i'm not really sure i see what the problem with seshas's cult spec is.  can you guys point to specific posts?


yeah. (to be clear, my issue is that i think she seems _really_ unbothered or disengaged about it / i think that total ambivalence doesn't read town to me)


Spoiler: quotes






Seshas said:


> tbh² said:
> 
> 
> 
> genuine q. is cultspec like. important? i'm assuming so considering that a cursory google implies that recruited cultists lose town powers lol ...
> -m
> 
> 
> 
> my strategy w/r/t cultists is hide in a corner and hope they go away
Click to expand...




Seshas said:


> Seshas said:
> 
> 
> 
> *kokorico*
> 
> 
> 
> I feel like he's rushing a stance on the cultist thing for the purpose of taking one, instead of proceeding in good faith
Click to expand...

when koko was exercising like, ~understandable cult paranoia, while imo proceeding in 'good faith' on what e thought was an early trebek read (even if i disagreed)


kokorico said:


> I kinda get the thing of sussing Trebek for what he said about cultification, but it seems a tad weak to me. It's exactly the sort of joking around that several people, me included, have already been doing about the setup. If you're going to read him as a cultist for that, why not also read me as someone who causes eight nightkills at once and then brings two and a half of them back to life over the course of the day? Hell, I could equally say that _Seshas_ seems culty for trying to pin the blame on Trebek.
> 
> If there is a cult (and despite the joking, I do think it's more likely than not - useless roles can be amusing but I'm sure Mawile has better ways to troll us) I agree with kyeugh that getting rid of them should be our first priority, as they're only going to get more powerful over the course of the game.





Seshas said:


> I think my stance on cults is that I'm salty I can no longer lean on my townbloc





while seeming loosely concerned about the cult vs. mafia thing and not really doing anything about it?


Seshas said:


> There's seriously a chance that there's no mafia and just a cult this game
> that would explain the lack of a N0 kill


----------



## Despicable Meme

god daingert, you work a lot faster than me-


----------



## tbh²

i also don't think she's posted much about the Cult Fear aside from what i quoted


Despicable Meme said:


> god daingert, you work a lot faster than me-


pls add on if i missed something!


Spoiler: tinfoil






Hydreigon25 said:


> Trebek said:
> 
> 
> 
> inb4 there isn’t actually a mafia
> 
> 
> 
> ^ this could explain why there were no n0 kills
Click to expand...

does this post seem a little familiar to anyone else
i am confbiased a bit because fsr i'm hard-associating seshas and hydrei right now due to the latter being one of seshas' earliest townreads, and i thiiink seshas might be a powerwolf


-m


----------



## Despicable Meme

(ftr I acknowledge that you have posted but I want to inspect the whole situation for myself first, so I'll know where to agree or disagree with your take)


----------



## tbh²

Spoiler: tinfoil amendment






Hydreigon25 said:


> Trebek said:
> 
> 
> 
> inb4 there isn’t actually a mafia
> 
> 
> 
> ^ this could explain why there were no n0 kills
Click to expand...

does this post seem a little familiar to anyone else
i am confbiased a bit because fsr i'm hard-associating seshas and hydrei right now due to the latter being one of seshas' earliest townreads, and i thiiink seshas might be a powerwolf

+ this was the first (and one of relatively few) game-related pieces that hydreigon posted


-m


----------



## qenya

kyeugh said:


> kokorico said:
> 
> 
> 
> Jack and Skylar, are also the two people I have noted down as possibly trying to subtly encourage PR claims
> 
> 
> 
> it wasn’t subtle, i think it’s good for town to know as much about the setup as possible. i wasn’t urging anyone to claim their role, i was only urging them to share information they have about the setup (at no risk to themselves). the post you quoted even explains that—i’m interested in hearing why you think that’s scummy.
Click to expand...

I think possibly my post may have come across as way more certain than I actually am

my usual strategy is to note down absolutely everything I come across that could be seen as alignment-indicative and hope that some sort of pattern drops out when I sort by username, but I haven't been very successful so far, I think probably mostly because all the immunity-related setup spec stuff took up most of my focus while it was going on. (it's still going better than ACNH D1 tho.)

all of which is to say, instead of any sort of coherent tierlist, rn I have a bunch of unrelated categories, which in this case include for example "said things encouraging PR spec" (you, jack), "fake scumslipping" (you, Keldeo, IIRC someone else I seem to have forgotten to note down); and on the town side, "well-explained reads/logic" (raritini, ~trebek) and "joking about tendency to die early" (emmy). and this thing hydreigon's doing, which I'm more inclined to read towny than not. yes, none of these things are super helpful (or even strongly AI) in isolation, but I'm just working with what I've got. I guess I could just keep quiet until I have something definitive but it strikes me that that would be even less helpful wrt helping y'all get a read on me.

fwiw, I disagree that encouraging people to share setup info from their role PMs is necessarily no-risk or even low-risk. in this situation I think it was probably unavoidable, but (a) you/we couldn't possibly have known that before doing it, and (b) it certainly did leak information about people's roles in that we now have a reasonably good idea about who has immunities that are "anomalous"/less likely to be red herrings

(aside: having virtually nothing to go on d1 is exactly why I don't like daystart games)


----------



## tbh²

rari is probably going, to, like, yell at me for tinfoilposting but meh

i want to say that i'm not really planning on investing that much energy into off-the-wall [cult][weird role]spec because i think it's distracting me from making those classic, good mewtini reads (tm) and that i'm sorta just intending on gleaning what i can from the reactions around it. for now, anyway


kokorico said:


> fwiw, I disagree that encouraging people to share setup info from their role PMs is necessarily no-risk or even low-risk. in this situation I think it was probably unavoidable, but (a) you/we couldn't possibly have known that before doing it, and (b) it certainly did leak information about people's roles in that we now have a reasonably good idea about who has immunities that are "anomalous"/less likely to be red herrings


why? the danger that we usually try to avoid is giving mafia info on WHO has a PR; i don't really know why it would be more ideal to be in the dark considering how weird this setup could be, when it doesn't help scum PR-hunt at all (aside from, like, "well this person probably isn't X if they are immune to X")

sorry if i'm pushing this a bit, but iirc you are not usually very focused in on avoiding PR spec in the way that players like seshas and i tend to be, so i'm lightly surprised that this is something in the forefront of your mind



kokorico said:


> (aside: having virtually nothing to go on d1 is exactly why I don't like daystart games)


tbf this isn't really a daystart game, something weird just happened n0, right.

-m


----------



## Trebek

tbh² said:


> Spoiler: tinfoil amendment
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hydreigon25 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Trebek said:
> 
> 
> 
> inb4 there isn’t actually a mafia
> 
> 
> 
> ^ this could explain why there were no n0 kills
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> does this post seem a little familiar to anyone else
> i am confbiased a bit because fsr i'm hard-associating seshas and hydrei right now due to the latter being one of seshas' earliest townreads, and i thiiink seshas might be a powerwolf
> 
> + this was the first (and one of relatively few) game-related pieces that hydreigon posted
> 
> 
> -m
Click to expand...

this was actually part of my O_o on hydre as well
was also interesting that the post came after we had confirmed that town rolecards do mention mafia by name, but i’m not putting too much weight on that bc i made that mistake first :p


----------



## Trebek

tbh² said:


> rari is probably going, to, like, yell at me for tinfoilposting but meh
> 
> i want to say that i'm not really planning on investing that much energy into off-the-wall [cult][weird role]spec because i think it's distracting me from making those classic, good mewtini reads (tm) and that i'm sorta just intending on gleaning what i can from the reactions around it. for now, anyway
> 
> 
> kokorico said:
> 
> 
> 
> fwiw, I disagree that encouraging people to share setup info from their role PMs is necessarily no-risk or even low-risk. in this situation I think it was probably unavoidable, but (a) you/we couldn't possibly have known that before doing it, and (b) it certainly did leak information about people's roles in that we now have a reasonably good idea about who has immunities that are "anomalous"/less likely to be red herrings
> 
> 
> 
> why? the danger that we usually try to avoid is giving mafia info on WHO has a PR; i don't really know why it would be more ideal to be in the dark considering how weird this setup could be, when it doesn't help scum PR-hunt at all (aside from, like, "well this person probably isn't X if they are immune to X")
Click to expand...

inclined to agree with this tbh: i don’t really see the benefit mafia gets from knowing that power roles exist (bc like, obviously PRs are gonna exist), as long as we don’t match up PRs to players? i think the benefit town gets from knowing what PRs might exist outweighs the benefit mafia gets from knowing that X player doesn’t have X power (which is what it seems like immunityclaiming is doing, from my point of view?)


----------



## tbh²

Trebek said:


> inclined to agree with this tbh


as opposed to another player named tbh?!-
-m


----------



## Trebek

tbh² said:


> Trebek said:
> 
> 
> 
> inclined to agree with this tbh
> 
> 
> 
> as opposed to another player named tbh?!-
> -m
Click to expand...

sorry, let me amend!

inclined to agree with this tbh, tbh


----------



## Trebek

and yeah, i definitely think that the lack of a NK was due to PR interference, but i don’t think it’s worth it to spec on this right now bc like, for all we know multiple townies have roles that could affect the NK, and it’s no use talking about them all if we can’t even decide which one was responsible for what happened last night


----------



## qenya

tbh² said:


> kokorico said:
> 
> 
> 
> fwiw, I disagree that encouraging people to share setup info from their role PMs is necessarily no-risk or even low-risk. in this situation I think it was probably unavoidable, but (a) you/we couldn't possibly have known that before doing it, and (b) it certainly did leak information about people's roles in that we now have a reasonably good idea about who has immunities that are "anomalous"/less likely to be red herrings
> 
> 
> 
> why? the danger that we usually try to avoid is giving mafia info on WHO has a PR; i don't really know why it would be more ideal to be in the dark considering how weird this setup could be, when it doesn't help scum PR-hunt at all (aside from, like, "well this person probably isn't X if they are immune to X")
> 
> sorry if i'm pushing this a bit, but iirc you are not usually very focused in on avoiding PR spec in the way that players like seshas and i tend to be, so i'm lightly surprised that this is something in the forefront of your mind
Click to expand...

hmm, maybe I'm not explaining this very well, let me try again?

I totally agree the issue with PR spec is with revealing players' identities, as opposed to details about the setup. it's not that I think "existence of [e.g.] an arsonist" is something I think we should be hiding. what I'm concerned about is that the setup spec had the (side-)effect of revealing, or at least heavily hinting, at who has a "real" passive immunity as opposed to a red herring. and that _is _something that might be useful if you're a scumteam trying to decide who to target with your actions-who-someone-might-be-immune-to, and is exactly why I'm not revealing my immunity, which I think is more likely to fall into the former category

and yes, I think I'd probably agree with your assessment that PR spec is not usually something I pay much attention to. it's just taking up a bigger proportion of my mind atm because there is comparatively less of everything else sloshing around in there



tbh² said:


> kokorico said:
> 
> 
> 
> (aside: having virtually nothing to go on d1 is exactly why I don't like daystart games)
> 
> 
> 
> tbf this isn't really a daystart game, something weird just happened n0, right.
Click to expand...

oh, yeah, I realise that, just saying the effects on dayplay are similar


----------



## Despicable Meme

still busy with the seshas posts but--

I think it's very worth pointing out that the earlier mechspec in this thread had a very specific purpose: determining the likelihood that we may be dealing with a cult in this setup. that's worth figuring out, even at the cost of a few claims that don't otherwise help us


----------



## tbh²

Trebek said:


> and yeah, i definitely think that the lack of a NK was due to PR interference, but i don’t think it’s worth it to spec on this right now bc like, for all we know multiple townies have roles that could affect the NK, and it’s no use talking about them all if we can’t even decide which one was responsible for what happened last night


agreed
i was just pointing out that koko using the term 'daystart' wasn't quite accurate
-m


----------



## qenya

Trebek said:


> and yeah, i definitely think that the lack of a NK was due to PR interference, but i don’t think it’s worth it to spec on this right now bc like, for all we know multiple townies have roles that could affect the NK, and it’s no use talking about them all if we can’t even decide which one was responsible for what happened last night


hard agree - another reason why I thought jack's "if a roleblocker/jailkeeper targeted someone n0, maybe they could point us in the right direction?" (paraphrased) was misguided at best


----------



## Trebek

tbh² said:


> Trebek said:
> 
> 
> 
> and yeah, i definitely think that the lack of a NK was due to PR interference, but i don’t think it’s worth it to spec on this right now bc like, for all we know multiple townies have roles that could affect the NK, and it’s no use talking about them all if we can’t even decide which one was responsible for what happened last night
> 
> 
> 
> agreed
> i was just pointing out that koko using the term 'daystart' wasn't quite accurate
> -m
Click to expand...

oh, i thought e just meant that in general tbh


----------



## tbh²

kokorico said:


> hard agree - another reason why I thought jack's "if a roleblocker/jailkeeper targeted someone n0, maybe they could point us in the right direction?" (paraphrased) was misguided at best


i still think you're glazing over the second half of his post too much, which directly reads [to me] like someone avoiding spec


JackPK said:


> if it's alien, we probably have no way of figuring out who it is toDay, and if it's doc/etc, it's better to avoid spec in order to conceal them from the mafia


-m


----------



## Keldeo

Hey, I’m gonna eat something and then be here hopefully til EOD! Already doubting whether I’ll be able to read everything, so if it’s not too much trouble, could someone tell me about the most important things I should be looking at while catching up / current wagons and cliffs notes of the cases against them?


----------



## Trebek

kokorico said:


> Trebek said:
> 
> 
> 
> and yeah, i definitely think that the lack of a NK was due to PR interference, but i don’t think it’s worth it to spec on this right now bc like, for all we know multiple townies have roles that could affect the NK, and it’s no use talking about them all if we can’t even decide which one was responsible for what happened last night
> 
> 
> 
> hard agree - another reason why I thought jack's "if a roleblocker/jailkeeper targeted someone n0, maybe they could point us in the right direction?" (paraphrased) was misguided at best
Click to expand...

honestly, i got the exact opposite vibe from his post: like he did mention town PR, but then it felt like his post concluded with the decision that it wasn’t worth it?


----------



## tbh²

Trebek said:


> oh, i thought e just meant that in general tbh


it looks like e did tbh!
i was loosely considering that maybe fsr mafia couldn't kill or something n0 so i was sort of feeling it out,


----------



## tbh²

tbh² said:


> i was loosely considering that maybe fsr mafia couldn't kill or something n0 so i was sort of feeling it out,


ie i was like omg What If Slip but it was dumb.


kokorico said:


> I totally agree the issue with PR spec is with revealing players' identities, as opposed to details about the setup. it's not that I think "existence of [e.g.] an arsonist" is something I think we should be hiding. what I'm concerned about is that the setup spec had the (side-)effect of revealing, or at least heavily hinting, at who has a "real" passive immunity as opposed to a red herring. and that _is _something that might be useful if you're a scumteam trying to decide who to target with your actions-who-someone-might-be-immune-to, and is exactly why I'm not revealing my immunity, which I think is more likely to fall into the former category


mm, this is fair. i still think that the initial premise is enough for me to not think it was skylar's intention to draw out PRs, but i see what you mean now
-m


----------



## Trebek

tbh² said:


> Trebek said:
> 
> 
> 
> oh, i thought e just meant that in general tbh
> 
> 
> 
> it looks like e did tbh!
> i was loosely considering that maybe fsr mafia couldn't kill or something n0 so i was sort of feeling it out,
Click to expand...

oh, ok, cool!

i guess my only true day start experience so far was in snom where it was explicitly stated, so wasn’t sure


----------



## Hydreigon25

tbh² said:


> rari is probably going, to, like, yell at me for tinfoilposting but meh
> 
> i want to say that i'm not really planning on investing that much energy into off-the-wall [cult][weird role]spec because i think it's distracting me from making those classic, good mewtini reads (tm) and that i'm sorta just intending on gleaning what i can from the reactions around it. for now, anyway
> 
> 
> kokorico said:
> 
> 
> 
> fwiw, I disagree that encouraging people to share setup info from their role PMs is necessarily no-risk or even low-risk. in this situation I think it was probably unavoidable, but (a) you/we couldn't possibly have known that before doing it, and (b) it certainly did leak information about people's roles in that we now have a reasonably good idea about who has immunities that are "anomalous"/less likely to be red herrings
> 
> 
> 
> why? the danger that we usually try to avoid is giving mafia info on WHO has a PR; i don't really know why it would be more ideal to be in the dark considering how weird this setup could be, when it doesn't help scum PR-hunt at all (aside from, like, "well this person probably isn't X if they are immune to X")
> 
> sorry if i'm pushing this a bit, but iirc you are not usually very focused in on avoiding PR spec in the way that players like seshas and i tend to be, so i'm lightly surprised that this is something in the forefront of your mind
> 
> -m
Click to expand...

Also Note that VM might have a PR but didn't reveal it


----------



## tbh²

Hydreigon25 said:


> Also Note that VM might have a PR but didn't reveal it


hey where did the serif go?!?
can you elaborate?
-m


----------



## tbh²

Keldeo said:


> Hey, I’m gonna eat something and then be here hopefully til EOD! Already doubting whether I’ll be able to read everything, so if it’s not too much trouble, could someone tell me about the most important things I should be looking at while catching up / current wagons and cliffs notes of the cases against them?


keldeoooo! <3
working on a reply to this but it may take me a bit to get there, sorry in adv
-m


----------



## Despicable Meme

hmmmnrgh, I want to get more out of hydreigon25 but I do not have the knack for playing Keldeo questions-

someone else do it for me


----------



## qenya

tbh² said:


> kokorico said:
> 
> 
> 
> hard agree - another reason why I thought jack's "if a roleblocker/jailkeeper targeted someone n0, maybe they could point us in the right direction?" (paraphrased) was misguided at best
> 
> 
> 
> i still think you're glazing over the second half of his post too much, which directly reads [to me] like someone avoiding spec
> 
> 
> JackPK said:
> 
> 
> 
> if it's alien, we probably have no way of figuring out who it is toDay, and if it's doc/etc, it's better to avoid spec in order to conceal them from the mafia
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> -m
Click to expand...

oh, yeah, was going to mention that briefly

looking at it again I do see how you could read it either way - tbqh, I think we're not really going to know either way without explicitly asking him what he meant. and even if it were less ambiguous it's not something I would feel comfortable yeeting off d1, so.

---

now, regarding seshas, this revelation that her(+skylar's) vote on me _was_ serious and not a joke is... kinda strange

afaict it's still the case that neither have provided any sort of explanation beyond seshas' original omg-e's-talking-about-cults thing, which is a bit , but at the same time I still don't really get what an arbitrary push on me would accomplish. my mind is starting to go for more out-there explanations, like is one of them an insane/paranoid cop?

honestly I am mostly just No Thoughts Heads Empty on this and will probably go along with whatever the majority decides


----------



## tbh²

tbh² said:


> Hydreigon25 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Also Note that VM might have a PR but didn't reveal it
> 
> 
> 
> hey where did the serif go?!?
> can you elaborate?
> -m
Click to expand...

also @Hydreigon25 idk if you saw my ping earlier, can you talk more about what experience you have with mafia + how you feel playing as each alignment?


----------



## Despicable Meme

oh yeah, I guess there is one crucial one--

@Hydreigon25 , any thoughts on Seshas and/or the going speculation on Seshas?


----------



## Mawile

Vote History (please let me know if there's an error):

*Seshas voted kokorico (#192)
kyeugh voted kokorico (#234)*
Mist1422 voted Mawile (#313)
Seshas voted Mawile (#315)
Despicable Meme voted Mawile (#401)
storm voted Mawile (#409)
RedneckPhoenix voted RedneckPhoenix (#416)
RedneckPhoenix voted JackPK (#420)
*tbh^2 voted Seshas (#436)
RedneckPhoenix voted tbh^2 (#437)*

Vote count:
kokorico (2), Seshas (1), tbh^2 (1)


----------



## tbh²

Despicable Meme said:


> oh yeah, I guess there is one crucial one--
> 
> @Hydreigon25 , any thoughts on Seshas and/or the going speculation on Seshas?


(or thoughts on anyone tbh, particularly VM/seshas)


----------



## Mawile

Mawile said:


> (#420)


haha nice


----------



## JackPK

kokorico said:


> Trebek said:
> 
> 
> 
> and yeah, i definitely think that the lack of a NK was due to PR interference, but i don’t think it’s worth it to spec on this right now bc like, for all we know multiple townies have roles that could affect the NK, and it’s no use talking about them all if we can’t even decide which one was responsible for what happened last night
> 
> 
> 
> hard agree - another reason why I thought jack's "if a roleblocker/jailkeeper targeted someone n0, maybe they could point us in the right direction?" (paraphrased) was misguided at best
Click to expand...

y'know I wrote that and then went to bed and, before I drifted off to sleep, thought to myself "I didn't phrase that very well did I, people are gonna latch onto that" but didn't think it was important enough to get back up out of bed for

my intention was not to directly call for a roleblocker/etc to roleclaim now, more to encourage roleblocker/etc to come forward _once they feel they have enough evidence to firmly implicate someone_, which idk could be toDay if they're a combination roleblocker+something else that gives info, could be toMorrow, could be the next Day, the Day after, who knows. just whenever they have felt they have info that's useful enough to offset the danger of revealing themselves

(if town roleblocker/etc even exists at all)


----------



## Mawile

oh yeah also *end of day is in like 4 and a half hours*


----------



## Trebek

JackPK said:


> kokorico said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Trebek said:
> 
> 
> 
> and yeah, i definitely think that the lack of a NK was due to PR interference, but i don’t think it’s worth it to spec on this right now bc like, for all we know multiple townies have roles that could affect the NK, and it’s no use talking about them all if we can’t even decide which one was responsible for what happened last night
> 
> 
> 
> hard agree - another reason why I thought jack's "if a roleblocker/jailkeeper targeted someone n0, maybe they could point us in the right direction?" (paraphrased) was misguided at best
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> y'know I wrote that and then went to bed and, before I drifted off to sleep, thought to myself "I didn't phrase that very well did I, people are gonna latch onto that" but didn't think it was important enough to get back up out of bed for
> 
> my intention was not to directly call for a roleblocker/etc to roleclaim now, more to encourage roleblocker/etc to come forward _once they feel they have enough evidence to firmly implicate someone_, which idk could be toDay if they're a combination roleblocker+something else that gives info, could be toMorrow, could be the next Day, the Day after, who knows. just whenever they have felt they have info that's useful enough to offset the danger of revealing themselves
> 
> (if town roleblocker/etc even exists at all)
Click to expand...

this is exactly how i feel tbh. if it gets to Day 3 or 4 and all of a sudden someone goes “oh i am the role blocker and now that so and so have been cleared i know that this is what happened N0”, i think that’s better than wishy washy D1 spec


----------



## Mawile

haha pagetop







please carry on with your regularly scheduled Discussion Time


----------



## Despicable Meme

ok, so, I'm getting this out of my head so it won't keep distracting me while I'm working on seshas

I keep forgetting to talk about it but kyeugh's been landing iffy to me, esp wrt her vote on kokorico. I can understand early votes -- you all know I've done a bunch of them myself -- but what, pray tell, was the expected gain from "I'm vibing, let's wagon" that early?

anyway, this is lodged in my brain because I've turned up one or two seshas-kyeugh interactions that feel potentially w/w, but at the same time, I rather doubt that kyeugh would be distancing so little from a scumbuddy as to attempt a one-two wagon, so, hhhhhmmmmmm.


----------



## Hydreigon25

tbh² said:


> Hydreigon25 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Also Note that VM might have a PR but didn't reveal it
> 
> 
> 
> can you elaborate?
> -m
Click to expand...

Remember back when VM posted 




Vipera Magnifica said:


> oh fwiw I have an immunity to something. I'd rather not say what that is, because I'd rather the person(s) who can do that something waste their action on me.


Afaik, As far as I know having a immunity most likely is a sign of a PR


----------



## kyeugh

tbh² said:


> kyeugh said:
> 
> 
> 
> i'm not really sure i see what the problem with seshas's cult spec is.  can you guys point to specific posts?
> 
> 
> 
> yeah. (to be clear, my issue is that i think she seems _really_ unbothered or disengaged about it / i think that total ambivalence doesn't read town to me)
> 
> 
> Spoiler: quotes
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Seshas said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> tbh² said:
> 
> 
> 
> genuine q. is cultspec like. important? i'm assuming so considering that a cursory google implies that recruited cultists lose town powers lol ...
> -m
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> my strategy w/r/t cultists is hide in a corner and hope they go away
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Seshas said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Seshas said:
> 
> 
> 
> *kokorico*
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I feel like he's rushing a stance on the cultist thing for the purpose of taking one, instead of proceeding in good faith
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> when koko was exercising like, ~understandable cult paranoia, while imo proceeding in 'good faith' on what e thought was an early trebek read (even if i disagreed)
> 
> 
> kokorico said:
> 
> 
> 
> I kinda get the thing of sussing Trebek for what he said about cultification, but it seems a tad weak to me. It's exactly the sort of joking around that several people, me included, have already been doing about the setup. If you're going to read him as a cultist for that, why not also read me as someone who causes eight nightkills at once and then brings two and a half of them back to life over the course of the day? Hell, I could equally say that _Seshas_ seems culty for trying to pin the blame on Trebek.
> 
> If there is a cult (and despite the joking, I do think it's more likely than not - useless roles can be amusing but I'm sure Mawile has better ways to troll us) I agree with kyeugh that getting rid of them should be our first priority, as they're only going to get more powerful over the course of the game.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Seshas said:
> 
> 
> 
> I think my stance on cults is that I'm salty I can no longer lean on my townbloc
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> while seeming loosely concerned about the cult vs. mafia thing and not really doing anything about it?
> 
> 
> Seshas said:
> 
> 
> 
> There's seriously a chance that there's no mafia and just a cult this game
> that would explain the lack of a N0 kill
> 
> Click to expand...
Click to expand...

 i'm having trouble seeing this stuff as scummy.  i guess i don't really understand what your bar for sufficiently "bothered" or "engaged" is—these posts read to me like seshas is actually quite open to and concerned about the prospect of a cult.  what would you have rather seen them post?  you say seshas is concerned about the cult vs. mafia thing but don't like that she didn't do anything about it—what is she supposed to do?  none of us know for sure that a cult exists.  her posting about it seems apt to me, and i strongly disagree that it looks like it's coming from someone who has "never played against a cult in their entire life"


----------



## Trebek

Hydreigon25 said:


> tbh² said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hydreigon25 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Also Note that VM might have a PR but didn't reveal it
> 
> 
> 
> can you elaborate?
> -m
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Remember back when VM posted
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Vipera Magnifica said:
> 
> 
> 
> oh fwiw I have an immunity to something. I'd rather not say what that is, because I'd rather the person(s) who can do that something waste their action on me.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Afaik, As far as I know having a immunity most likely is a sign of a PR
Click to expand...

i mean, most of the discussion toDay has been based around the fact that many people seem to have immunities, so idk


----------



## Keldeo

tbh, thank you, no worries! Just want to be as useful as I can be right now.



Mawile said:


> Vote count:
> kokorico (2), Seshas (1), tbh^2 (1)


Just looking at this, would encourage more people to put votes down - doesn't have to be final, you can always change it later, etc.


----------



## Keldeo

Everyone is a PR this game, right?


----------



## Despicable Meme

roly mose, EoD is so close

welp, parking on *Seshas*; I feel like it's both a solid wagon for scumread reasons and for science reasons (which, lbr, is about as good as it gets on D1)


----------



## kyeugh

Despicable Meme said:


> I can understand early votes -- you all know I've done a bunch of them myself -- but what, pray tell, was the expected gain from "I'm vibing, let's wagon" that early?


 aren't you supposed to vote for people you think are scum?  i placed my vote because i didn't like koko's posting/tone at the time and e's done nothing to improve my opinion.


----------



## tbh²

Keldeo said:


> Hey, I’m gonna eat something and then be here hopefully til EOD! Already doubting whether I’ll be able to read everything, so if it’s not too much trouble, could someone tell me about the most important things I should be looking at while catching up / current wagons and cliffs notes of the cases against them?


realized that this game is already too crazy for me to even pretend to be able to cliffs it very well, so sorry that this is sort of shoddy, kinda just going through my/rari's notes and throwing together extended annotations from memory

- rnp claims some sort of hypno-esque role (to force someone to truthfully tell the truth about their alignment) + ability to make someone untraceable in 37, and that he used the oneshot on hmf - who responds/claims in 55. back and forth on this caused a few players (iirc seshas/mist/some other people?) to conclude that rnp/hmf are probably not antialigned
- mist claims to have received a whisper in 57
- due to rnp claiming immunity to being recruited into a cult, a fair amount of spec has gone into the Dangers of a Cult existing; in 132 seshas mentions trebek looks like a possible cultist, pages like 16 through 18 were pretty much all about cult
- we start finding out around 265ish that it looks like everyone has a distinct immunity to different roles, notably trebek's isn't mech- or role-related in the way others' are (277). 
- for an idea of things, skylar summarized all immunities claimed up to that point in 298 (though some have been claimed since then)
- 374 tbh^2/rari longposts about the culttalk while catching up
- kokorico guesses in 410 that it's likely some of the immunities are there to 'pad' the numbers out; possibly to cover for the 'real' immunities
- 418 is the main long tbh^2 readlist lol, there was some talk about that afterward

-m


----------



## Despicable Meme

hmmm. well, you're more committed to that vote than you sounded like you were, which is a point-for

not a big one but it could be worse


----------



## Keldeo

Okay, I think RNP claiming unprompted and early is pretty towny for him specifically, though I don't really know what untraceable is? I'm guessing it's like making someone else a ninja?


----------



## tbh²

kyeugh said:


> Despicable Meme said:
> 
> 
> 
> I can understand early votes -- you all know I've done a bunch of them myself -- but what, pray tell, was the expected gain from "I'm vibing, let's wagon" that early?
> 
> 
> 
> aren't you supposed to vote for people you think are scum?  i placed my vote because i didn't like koko's posting/tone at the time and e's done nothing to improve my opinion.
Click to expand...

can you talk more about that? i actually think i might be villareading koko (i think eir paranoia might be a towntell) but am curious to hear more
are you villareading seshas or do you just disagree with those posts being scummy?

-m


----------



## tbh²

Keldeo said:


> Okay, I think RNP claiming unprompted and early is pretty towny for him specifically, though I don't really know what untraceable is? I'm guessing it's like making someone else a ninja?


i think so, yeah
also compare to his reaction to the tierlist/reads raritini posted in 418, i think his frustration there seems towny for him
-m


----------



## kyeugh

Keldeo said:


> Okay, I think RNP claiming unprompted and early is pretty towny for him specifically, though I don't really know what untraceable is? I'm guessing it's like making someone else a ninja?


 i think that's the case, yeah.  the thinking is that, if rnp is town, there's probably some kind of mafia watcher role; i give some thoughts about it here.


----------



## Despicable Meme

hmngr there's no chance I'll finish a proper Seshas-dossier in time for it to actually matter I suppose

time to try and figure out the more important things to poke at


----------



## Keldeo

kyeugh said:


> Keldeo said:
> 
> 
> 
> Okay, I think RNP claiming unprompted and early is pretty towny for him specifically, though I don't really know what untraceable is? I'm guessing it's like making someone else a ninja?
> 
> 
> 
> i think that's the case, yeah.  the thinking is that, if rnp is town, there's probably some kind of mafia watcher role; i give some thoughts about it here.
Click to expand...

Okay, this makes sense to me. Otherwise his role seems to be pretty "negative utility" on town (would mess with town trackers/watchers/etc) - that was ~the thing giving me pause on the claim itself.


----------



## tbh²

kyeugh said:


> i guess i don't really understand what your bar for sufficiently "bothered" or "engaged" is—these posts read to me like seshas is actually quite open to and concerned about the prospect of a cult. what would you have rather seen them post? you say seshas is concerned about the cult vs. mafia thing but don't like that she didn't do anything about it—what is she supposed to do? none of us know for sure that a cult exists


it's not that i take issue with or think that she's not 'open' to the prospect, it's that i'm reading this like she doesn't care at all either way/isn't engaging with the idea. i'm worried that it's because the existence, or nonexistence, of a cult is irrelevant to her or something altogether
i don't really see any of those posts as 'concern' tbh, i think she sounds kinda (shrug) about the idea either way? especially when there's been a lot of threadspace devoted to it
-m


----------



## Keldeo

Keldeo said:


> Otherwise his role seems to be pretty "negative utility" on town


Love to be ninja'd by a post from two days ago


----------



## tbh²

tbh² said:


> kyeugh said:
> 
> 
> 
> i guess i don't really understand what your bar for sufficiently "bothered" or "engaged" is—these posts read to me like seshas is actually quite open to and concerned about the prospect of a cult. what would you have rather seen them post? you say seshas is concerned about the cult vs. mafia thing but don't like that she didn't do anything about it—what is she supposed to do? none of us know for sure that a cult exists
> 
> 
> 
> it's not that i take issue with or think that she's not 'open' to the prospect, it's that i'm reading this like she doesn't care at all either way/isn't engaging with the idea. i'm worried that it's because the existence, or nonexistence, of a cult is irrelevant to her or something altogether
> i don't really see any of those posts as 'concern' tbh, i think she sounds kinda (shrug) about the idea either way? especially when there's been a lot of threadspace devoted to it
> -m
Click to expand...

sorry if that doesn't really make sense. i'm not really expecting her to be panicked about it, i'm not really panicked either, but i feel like she's weirdly apathetic to the idea for being town (and that some of her posting, eg 334 insisting that it's possible for a town/cult joint-win to be in the cards just felt avoidant to me)
-m


----------



## Keldeo

Hey, MF / skylar, what / who do you think I should be focusing on? 

I'm like really tempted to townread rari checking Despicable Meme's post for a random tag, but I don't think that actually means anything lol


----------



## Despicable Meme

also, for the record: I'm out of time to do this right now but I've been trying to figure out who was the first person to state that the town PM in this game explicitly names killing all mafia as the wincon -- mafiosi have no way of knowing that for sure and would prefer for a townie to point it out first in order to pretend like they got the same thing, so being the first to claim it is a pretty towny thing

so, if someone else remembers who it was exactly... I think it was either trebek or kyeugh?


----------



## Despicable Meme

Keldeo said:


> Hey, MF / skylar, what / who do you think I should be focusing on?


well, we have a scant few hours to EoD, so, if you could check out Seshas and kokorico to see which wagon you're hopping on, that'd be grand


----------



## tbh²

Despicable Meme said:


> also, for the record: I'm out of time to do this right now but I've been trying to figure out who was the first person to state that the town PM in this game explicitly names killing all mafia as the wincon -- mafiosi have no way of knowing that for sure and would prefer for a townie to point it out first in order to pretend like they got the same thing, so being the first to claim it is a pretty towny thing
> 
> so, if someone else remembers who it was exactly... I think it was either trebek or kyeugh?


skylar! that's exactly what i was talking about here


tbh² said:


> there is another thing she said that i think might make her ~lock to me but i want to wait a bit





kyeugh said:


> Trebek said:
> 
> 
> 
> yeah should have specified, i’m leaning much towards world B, but wanted to acknowledge both possibilities
> 
> 
> 
> i don't think it's a possibility.  my role pm says that i win when all mafia are eliminated.  doesn't yours?
Click to expand...


----------



## Keldeo

Hmm, assuming that RNP is actually v, I think that makes Despicable Meme fairly likely to be v, too. Given all RNP said about his role, I think v/w isn't actually out of the cards yet of course, but like, claiming mafia now would basically be outing...

(I just conceptualized something really despicable they could do wrt that, I think it's too cursed to say out loud)


----------



## Trebek

yep! i forgot about it, and then skylar reminded me


----------



## Keldeo

Despicable Meme said:


> also, for the record: I'm out of time to do this right now but I've been trying to figure out who was the first person to state that the town PM in this game explicitly names killing all mafia as the wincon -- mafiosi have no way of knowing that for sure and would prefer for a townie to point it out first in order to pretend like they got the same thing, so being the first to claim it is a pretty towny thing
> 
> so, if someone else remembers who it was exactly... I think it was either trebek or kyeugh?


I think this is valid, I tried asking Mawile for the mafia win condition and he said he couldn't tell me anything that wasn't in my role PM


----------



## kyeugh

tbh² said:


> kyeugh said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Despicable Meme said:
> 
> 
> 
> I can understand early votes -- you all know I've done a bunch of them myself -- but what, pray tell, was the expected gain from "I'm vibing, let's wagon" that early?
> 
> 
> 
> aren't you supposed to vote for people you think are scum?  i placed my vote because i didn't like koko's posting/tone at the time and e's done nothing to improve my opinion.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> can you talk more about that? i actually think i might be villareading koko (i think eir paranoia might be a towntell) but am curious to hear more
> are you villareading seshas or do you just disagree with those posts being scummy?
> 
> -m
Click to expand...

 bit of both.  i do disagree those seshas posts are scummy at all, but the main reason i'm townreading seshas right now is because i don't think she's w/w with koko, and i believe koko is w.  my logic here is a bit circular; initially my read on em was just sort of nebulous and tone-based, and i was getting vaguely disingenuous vibes from most of the Points e was making, but i've also disliked their reaction to the votes on em—eir lack of engagement there feels to me like a wolf trying not to look like they're panicking about a few votes.  then, as we approach eod, i'm increasingly convinced these wagons are w/v, which sort of strengthens my belief here.


----------



## tbh²

kyeugh said:


> i do disagree those seshas posts are scummy at all, but the main reason i'm townreading seshas right now is because i don't think she's w/w with koko, and i believe koko is w.


cool, i agree with them not being w/w. i mentioned oscillating on my kokoread earlier and it was kinda because of what you said - the 'disingenuous' bit - and i was also vaguely thinking about the vote reaction but i also am not sure if i really think v!koko would act all that differently, it could be consistent given what e's said about eir approach to this game? i keep rereading the long cult-spec convo between you/trebek/koko/seshas/me to try to figure something out and i can't tell.

whenever rari shows back up she'll probably talk me into SRing koko again lol ...

-m


----------



## Zori

headache


----------



## storm

also headachey, having trouble following any of the posts about the reads rn. sorry guys!


----------



## Despicable Meme

okay, so, I have a bunch of other smaller suspicions of seshas that I don't have time to be sidetracked by, but, I'd like to nominate the following as the emblematic weird post:


Seshas said:


> I'm reading Trebek as cultist but I don't think he's a wolf pending some mechanics working the way I think they do
> Wooloo tier is: I townread these and I'm moderately confident
> I have an aligned read on RNP/HMF and HMF has been moderately towny thus far


"I think Trebek is in the cult but I don't feel pressed to lynch him for it", in other words -- something adjacent to what you might recognize as "eh, MF is probably scum, but why don't we lynch RNP instead" (cfr tv tropes mafia)

instead, she wanders off to push on Kokorico, in a toneread that personally I'm not remotely seeing, and park on there while also openly giving up on keeping her read of em up to real time

this overall doesn't sound to me like someone who's playing with town's best interests at heart


----------



## Keldeo

Aww I'm sorry to hear that Seshas and storm, hope you feel better soon!



Trebek said:


> yeah i think thats what makes me a little bit weirded out about it bc like the role seems like it would work much better alongside some other way of gathering information, be it an extra component to the role or external chat
> 
> im down to just vibe for now tho


idk if I should like this for the mindmeld or just, like, full commit to idea of RNP being town like I'm tempted to and hrmm at this casting doubt (but also MF did something similar, and like I mindmelded, so don't think it's super out of the blue) - leaning toward the former I guess, especially because I feel like he talked a bit less about mech super early in Tarot/ACNH, though there was less to talk about


----------



## tbh²

kyeugh said:


> initially my read on em was just sort of nebulous and tone-based, and i was getting vaguely disingenuous vibes from most of the Points e was making


oh, can you point me to a few places where you got that vibe?

getting cold feet kind of as this goes on ... but i have a bad gut feeling about seshas for the reasons i described, am hoping things sort themselves / i figure myself out within the next few hours. trying to rely more on my instincts this game and if it's between seshas/koko i think koko is sounding more within eir town meta
-m


----------



## tbh²

Despicable Meme said:


> "I think Trebek is in the cult but I don't feel pressed to lynch him for it", in other words -- something adjacent to what you might recognize as "eh, MF is probably scum, but why don't we lynch RNP instead" (cfr tv tropes mafia)


yes tbh
i wrote that off at the time to "eh, i guess she's just thinking he's a benign 3p" but then was  because of her later post about how she thinks there's a chance there's no mafia, only a cult
-m


----------



## kyeugh

Despicable Meme said:


> "I think Trebek is in the cult but I don't feel pressed to lynch him for it", in other words -- something adjacent to what you might recognize as "eh, MF is probably scum, but why don't we lynch RNP instead" (cfr tv tropes mafia)


 i don't think it's adjacent at all?  like i've said a few times, we should absolutely not be using the lynch for the cult, least of all before we know for sure a cult even exists.  it was just speculation.



tbh² said:


> i keep rereading the long cult-spec convo between you/trebek/koko/seshas/me to try to figure something out and i can't tell.


 i'm not sure what to make of the cult-spec convo either, but i will say that it didn't really feel... dialectical to me, i guess.  like, in essence i felt more like i was pushing people to accept things that they were trying hard not to accept for reasons and on grounds that remain unclear to me.  it didn't feel like the intent was to uncover truth.  idk if that means anything, i'm having trouble articulating it.


----------



## tbh²

tbh² said:


> Despicable Meme said:
> 
> 
> 
> "I think Trebek is in the cult but I don't feel pressed to lynch him for it", in other words -- something adjacent to what you might recognize as "eh, MF is probably scum, but why don't we lynch RNP instead" (cfr tv tropes mafia)
> 
> 
> 
> yes tbh
> i wrote that off at the time to "eh, i guess she's just thinking he's a benign 3p" but then was  because of her later post about how she thinks there's a chance there's no mafia, only a cult
> -m
Click to expand...

again, not that i think she should have started using this as her working theory etc. but these don't all fit together in my mind and i keep feeling like she's breezing past it in a ~sus way
-m


----------



## Keldeo

Sorry, I'm kind of confused, could you explain further? I don't have the context, but are you saying you think like, Seshas/Trebek are mafia partners and they're leaning on this cult thing to defend him? 

This is possibly a faulty assumption, but I would expect the mafia win condition to be like "when eliminating all threats to mafia is assured" or something, so then eliminating possible cult would also be ~beneficial to mafia. In other words, generically I feel like third party hunting is pro-both mafia and town but town should probably focus on hunting for mafia, so like... I guess I'm landing at ehh I feel like Seshas probably just states that regardless of alignment if they really do have a cultist read on Trebek, with the "I don't feel like killing him for it" being a 'pro-town' addendum


----------



## Keldeo

Keldeo said:


> I feel like he talked a bit less about mech super early in Tarot/ACNH, though there was less to talk about


putting a pin in fact checking this because I've got very little memory of his earlygame play in these games


----------



## kyeugh

tbh² said:


> oh, can you point me to a few places where you got that vibe?


 i tried to do this when i wrote my post about my read on em a minute ago, but i can't really, sorry.  it would basically amount to just, like, quoting eir posts and telling you to read them, haha.  it's nothing i can pinpoint so much as a bad feeling.


----------



## tbh²

Keldeo said:


> Sorry, I'm kind of confused, could you explain further? I don't have the context, but are you saying you think like, Seshas/Trebek are mafia partners and they're leaning on this cult thing to defend him?
> 
> This is possibly a faulty assumption, but I would expect the mafia win condition to be like "when eliminating all threats to mafia is assured" or something, so then eliminating possible cult would also be ~beneficial to mafia. In other words, generically I feel like third party hunting is pro-both mafia and town but town should probably focus on hunting for mafia, so like... I guess I'm landing at ehh I feel like Seshas probably just states that regardless of alignment if they really do have a cultist read on Trebek, with the "I don't feel like killing him for it" being a 'pro-town' addendum


i'm villareading trebek for now actually
it's not really that i think she had an agenda there that lined up with her being scum, it's that i thought the progression didn't make sense. like i'm seeing this as

"trebek sounds cultist" > eh, probably fine/3p, disregard > i think there's seriously a chance mafia ~= cult > [mostly discarding earlier trebek read] > shrug at prospect of cult

and aiui (as per links like this/my natural assumption) town should be concerned about the possibility of a cult existing in a way that mafia might be ambivalent to, since it doesn't really matter if a cult leader tries to recruit mafia. i'm maybe messing this up even more because i view seshas as a player who's good at, like, surveying to/respond to the landscape and it struck me as weird that she skirted around this topic when it was more or less the thread focus for a long while

-m


----------



## tbh²

tbh² said:


> own should be concerned about the possibility of a cult existing while mafia might be more ambivalent, since it doesn't really matter to a wolf if a cult leader tries to recruit mafia


unclear phrasing


----------



## Despicable Meme

I dunno; this feels quite a lot like you're both coming up with reasons why seshas could be town despite her posts, and not because of her posts. I suppose it's understandable coming from Keldeo who has to do this on a lot of unread posts and... kyeugh has a quasi mech clear anyway, but regardless


----------



## kyeugh

tbh² said:


> "trebek sounds cultist" > eh, probably fine/3p, disregard > i think there's seriously a chance mafia ~= cult > [mostly discarding earlier trebek read] > shrug at prospect of cult


 i feel like, if you're townreading trebek, this should actually suggest towniness for seshas to you.  as mafia, wouldn't she capitalize on the opportunity for a mislynch?  several people were echoing the idea that trebek was a cult member at the time.


----------



## tbh²

kyeugh said:


> tbh² said:
> 
> 
> 
> "trebek sounds cultist" > eh, probably fine/3p, disregard > i think there's seriously a chance mafia ~= cult > [mostly discarding earlier trebek read] > shrug at prospect of cult
> 
> 
> 
> i feel like, if you're townreading trebek, this should actually suggest towniness for seshas to you.  as mafia, wouldn't she capitalize on the opportunity for a mislynch?  several people were echoing the idea that trebek was a cult member at the time.
Click to expand...

i see your point, but don't know if i think that the absence of a bad push = towncred for seshas automatically, especially if she's mafia and content to let the cult grow :v

i am semi-sorry for being tunneled here.

-m


----------



## kyeugh

Despicable Meme said:


> I dunno; this feels quite a lot like you're both coming up with reasons why seshas could be town despite her posts, and not because of her posts. I suppose it's understandable coming from Keldeo who has to do this on a lot of unread posts and... kyeugh has a quasi mech clear anyway, but regardless


 i don't see how "i don't think her posts are scummy and in fact think they're fine" is reasoning in spite of her posts?  it actually seems to me like you're looking for reasons to feel bad about her posts to support your read rather than genuinely engaging with the information.  i'd probably be scumleaning you for it if not for the rnp thing, because you're definitely tunneling and on a person i'm fairly sure is town no less.



tbh² said:


> i see your point, but don't know if i think that the absence of a bad push = towncred for seshas automatically, especially if she's mafia and content to let the cult grow :v


 it may not be automatic towncred, but i definitely don't think it's a BAD look either.  also, mafia should not be content to let the cult grow whatsoever—they both win they achieve majority, and mafia is only going to shrink overtime while cult expands.


----------



## tbh²

admittedly i just don't really make reads about "they COULD have pushed more here" d1 because i think i'm not very good at that
the tl;dr is like, in my mind,
town either a) thinks a cult could exist and is at least vaguely Hmm! about it or b) thinks it's a hoax (a la mist, i think) and is fine disregarding it for now. complacency in option (a) doesn't make sense to me given what a cult could mean for town, and i agree with what hmf was saying earlier about how, at /best/, it would point to a sort of naivete (not understanding cult anti-town potential) that i don't think seshas has

while i think mafia would be happy to let it vibe/not engage in discussion because a cult doesn't endanger mafia, AND because the threadtalk has dominated/confused town so much. this is also where part of my skylar villaread comes from (and koko to a lesser extent)

-m


----------



## tbh²

tbh² said:


> a cult doesn't *immediately endanger mafia


----------



## tbh²

kyeugh said:


> it may not be automatic towncred, but i definitely don't think it's a BAD look either. also, mafia should not be content to let the cult grow whatsoever—they both win they achieve majority, and mafia is only going to shrink overtime while cult expands.


nah it's not a bad look! i just mean that it wasn't really something i was adding to a +v list yet.
i didn't really think about the second part though, thanks for pointing that out
-m


----------



## Keldeo

I mean, honestly I have no idea how to evaluate the relative likelihood of the possibilities "no cult, Mawile is just screwing with us" and "there is a cult (in which case it's an active danger etc.)". I guess we should maybe prepare for the worst, i.e. assume the latter? 

But I really don't know how we could actually hunt for cultists because like... the only "TMI" that the cult would have that could distinguish them from town is effectively (1) cult exists, (2) protect fellow cultists, (3) possibly being less solvey (but they still need to solve, right?)


----------



## kyeugh

tbh² said:


> town either a) thinks a cult could exist and is at least vaguely Hmm! about it or b) thinks it's a hoax (a la mist, i think) and is fine disregarding it for now. complacency in option (a) doesn't make sense to me given what a cult could mean for town, and i agree with what hmf was saying earlier about how, at /best/, it would point to a sort of naivete (not understanding cult anti-town potential) that i don't think seshas has


 i think we're talking in circles here so i'm not going to push you too much on this after this post, but i'm still not seeing why seshas's posting is "complacent."  i get the impression that maybe this is a feeling you had in the moment, and now you're kind of reading it into their posts?  but i don't really understand how you think town _should_ be acting towards the cult, or how seshas's play contradicts that—do you think she should be hunting for cult members, maybe?  but no one is doing that.  i feel like, given that we don't know if a cult exists, all anyone can really be expected to do is give their two cents on the matter, and seshas has done that.  i don't think the panickedness of one's tone wrt cult stuff is a good indicator of alignment here, and that's the only thing i can really see what you mean about.  i guess, like, you've kind of been going, "i feel this way, and i feel this way because of these posts," but i'm getting lost at _why_ those posts make you feel that way, i guess. it does indeed feel somewhat tunnelly to me


----------



## kyeugh

kyeugh said:


> i guess ... i guess.


 like poetry!


----------



## Keldeo

I guess the galaxy brain is that _Seshas_ is a cultist here


----------



## tbh²

Keldeo said:


> I mean, honestly I have no idea how to evaluate the relative likelihood of the possibilities "no cult, Mawile is just screwing with us" and "there is a cult (in which case it's an active danger etc.)". I guess we should maybe prepare for the worst, i.e. assume the latter?
> 
> But I really don't know how we could actually hunt for cultists because like... the only "TMI" that the cult would have that could distinguish them from town is effectively (1) cult exists, (2) protect fellow cultists, (3) possibly being less solvey (but they still need to solve, right?)


fwiw, despite all the seshas reactiontalk i've been doing i fall in camp (a); i'm not really inclined to take the existence of any of the immunity-referenced roles at face value just yet, i just have kinda latched on to this because i'm hoping there's some AI talk that's been generated by it
-m


----------



## tbh²

tbh² said:


> fwiw, despite all the seshas reactiontalk i've been doing i fall in camp (a); i'm not really inclined to take the existence of any of the immunity-referenced roles at face value just yet, i just have kinda latched on to this because i'm hoping there's some AI talk that's been generated by it
> -m


especially because jack said he's immune to a MAFIA recruiter, lol. at_ least_ one of these immunity-referenced roles almost certainly does not exist.
-m


----------



## Keldeo

I suppose I should probably keep reading to find out the latter part of this Seshas progression you're talking about instead of just talking theory


----------



## tbh²

kyeugh said:


> do you think she should be hunting for cult members, maybe? but no one is doing that. [...] i don't think the panickedness of one's tone wrt cult stuff is a good indicator of alignment here


it's pretty much that i expected her to react more, that was kind of it, i don't really mean to imply that i was wanting a hunt to begin
i will concede that maybe the second part of this is true and that it's v possible i'm projecting because i'm a bit antsy about this
-m


----------



## tbh²

hmmm. i feel kind of sheepish now so i'll try to re-evaluate and figure out how much of this really is pure tunnel.
-m


----------



## JackPK

post-ISOing koko and Seshas, I think I am comfortable putting my vote on *Seshas* for now for three reasons

1. rarimewt's arguments have just felt persuasive to me, idk

2. Seshas' posts in the early 300s (e.g. 326, 334) feel disingenuous in a way I find difficult to describe? like, Seshas is an experienced player who's demonstrated consistently that she's good at the game, so it doesn't make sense to me for her to be confused about cult mechanics. maybe I'm jumping to conclusions but it feels more like she was trying to waste time/lead discussion into an unproductive direction/raise doubts about how mechanics work when it's easy to just like... look up cults on the mafiascum and mafiauniverse wikis

3. ask me in a few Days about my third reason, I'm not comfortable explaining it yet


----------



## Despicable Meme

kyeugh said:


> tbh² said:
> 
> 
> 
> "trebek sounds cultist" > eh, probably fine/3p, disregard > i think there's seriously a chance mafia ~= cult > [mostly discarding earlier trebek read] > shrug at prospect of cult
> 
> 
> 
> i feel like, if you're townreading trebek, this should actually suggest towniness for seshas to you.  as mafia, wouldn't she capitalize on the opportunity for a mislynch?  several people were echoing the idea that trebek was a cult member at the time.
Click to expand...

I am also townreading trebek at this point fwiw, but the crucial thing is that Seshas wasn't. while mafiosi also have an incentive to hunt cult, it's worth noting that they can do this in their own time, and potentially have incentives to allow cults to spread a little before putting the kibosh on them (one, cultafia; two, the possibility that cult vannilaizes the players it recruits, which means less PRs for town)




kyeugh said:


> tbh² said:
> 
> 
> 
> i see your point, but don't know if i think that the absence of a bad push = towncred for seshas automatically, especially if she's mafia and content to let the cult grow :v
> 
> 
> 
> it may not be automatic towncred, but i definitely don't think it's a BAD look either.  also, mafia should not be content to let the cult grow whatsoever—they both win they achieve majority, and mafia is only going to shrink overtime while cult expands.
Click to expand...

the above also applies to this



kyeugh said:


> Despicable Meme said:
> 
> 
> 
> I dunno; this feels quite a lot like you're both coming up with reasons why seshas could be town despite her posts, and not because of her posts. I suppose it's understandable coming from Keldeo who has to do this on a lot of unread posts and... kyeugh has a quasi mech clear anyway, but regardless
> 
> 
> 
> i don't see how "i don't think her posts are scummy and in fact think they're fine" is reasoning in spite of her posts?  it actually seems to me like you're looking for reasons to feel bad about her posts to support your read rather than genuinely engaging with the information.  i'd probably be scumleaning you for it if not for the rnp thing, because you're definitely tunneling and on a person i'm fairly sure is town no less.
Click to expand...

funny enough, I feel the exact same way about you. the PM thing probably clears you, but if it wasn't for that, I'd be wigged to a burning intensity about how set you are on Seshas being town and Kokorico being mafia, when all you have on the former is "I disagree with the going scumspec" (which points to a null read, not a town read) and all you have on the latter is "vibe bad", despite you and Seshas being prompted to elaborate multiple times by now.

I am, admittedly, focused on the Seshas wagon about as much for the scumread that I don't have time to fully substantiate (reading seshas posts is. hard) as for the science potential and for it being the less worse wagon rn, because I can't whatsoever see these alleged kokorico tone problems

anyways -- the issue isn't that you're saying "she doesn't sound scummy", it's that you both keep introducing reasoning that Seshas herself never made. if I'm scumreading her, I'm obligated to figure out what her real thinking process was, but if you're townreading her, shouldn't her own arguments be self-sufficient?


----------



## storm

tbh² said:


> fwiw, despite all the seshas reactiontalk i've been doing i fall in camp (a); i'm not really inclined to take the existence of any of the immunity-referenced roles at face value just yet, i just have kinda latched on to this because i'm hoping there's some AI talk that's been generated by it
> -m


at least by next day hopefully we can narrow down some of the possibilities? (it should probably be pretty clear no neighbourhoods exist if no one reports being in one, ofc, or being neighbourized) I'm also wary of dismissing all the immunities, and like. mixing in some which will actually be useful alongside a bunch of baseless red herrings feels like a very bastardy, "this will fuel a lot of paranoia" thing to do

it seems pretty unlikely that mine matters at all tho, and it... still is not helpful today! :/


----------



## Keldeo

Seshas said:


> Seshas said:
> 
> 
> 
> *kokorico*
> 
> 
> 
> I feel like he's rushing a stance on the cultist thing for the purpose of taking one, instead of proceeding in good faith
Click to expand...

Inclined to say this specific tack makes Seshas/koko not w/w at least. It's like... if they were mafia partners, of course koko would be acting in "good faith" about a threat to both of them, so that occurs less to say?


----------



## tbh²

storm said:


> tbh² said:
> 
> 
> 
> fwiw, despite all the seshas reactiontalk i've been doing i fall in camp (a); i'm not really inclined to take the existence of any of the immunity-referenced roles at face value just yet, i just have kinda latched on to this because i'm hoping there's some AI talk that's been generated by it
> -m
> 
> 
> 
> at least by next day hopefully we can narrow down some of the possibilities? (it should probably be pretty clear no neighbourhoods exist if no one reports being in one, ofc, or being neighbourized) I'm also wary of dismissing all the immunities, and like. mixing in some which will actually be useful alongside a bunch of baseless red herrings feels like a very bastardy, "this will fuel a lot of paranoia" thing to do
> 
> it seems pretty unlikely that mine matters at all tho, and it... still is not helpful today! :/
Click to expand...

yeah i didn't mean that i want to dismiss them, i mean that i think it's very clear that "all of the immunity-referenced roles exist" is a false statement when the mafia recruiter/cult recruiter roles like, cannot exist in the same setup imo, and when there's a loverizer/neighborizer/masonizer claim. it is also why i (and i think VM) have been quiet; what i have isn't immediately verifiable

-m


----------



## Keldeo

Hey, storm, do you have a stance between Seshas/koko right now?


----------



## storm

I'm still really uncertain about reads in general, but what's been said about seshas seeming more confused than is warranted given her experience strikes me as the most... valid? firm? seeming reason for a vote, so I suppose that's what I'm leaning towards?

tho also my brain is currently kind of mush as weather is still Ongoing and I bet out of spite it won't abate and take my headache with it until past end of day, and the like. Greater Seshas Meta Read going on rn is essentially a vortex that eats my thoughts whenever I try to look at it


----------



## Keldeo

Despicable Meme said:


> anyways -- the issue isn't that you're saying "she doesn't sound scummy", it's that you both keep introducing reasoning that Seshas herself never made. if I'm scumreading her, I'm obligated to figure out what her real thinking process was, but if you're townreading her, shouldn't her own arguments be self-sufficient?


Ehh, probably? I don't think I'm like actually townreading them, to be clear... so far in catchup I mildly liked their early read on you/RNP situation, but idg their vote on koko really and I haven't seen most of this cultist stuff.

I feel like I'm always tempted to townread the abstracted way they phrase certain things at like all times (cf. ~treestump-punishing aspect of multiball~) because it makes it seem like there's that thought process going on that I then fill in the blanks on, but I ~trust you and tbh so maybe I should just follow.


----------



## kyeugh

Despicable Meme said:


> funny enough, I feel the exact same way about you. the PM thing probably clears you, but if it wasn't for that, I'd be wigged to a burning intensity about how set you are on Seshas being town and Kokorico being mafia, when all you have on the former is "I disagree with the going scumspec" (which points to a null read, not a town read) and all you have on the latter is "vibe bad", despite you and Seshas being prompted to elaborate multiple times by now.


 that's not really all i have for seshas.  i don't believe these wagons are v/v, and seshas voted very early and basically unprompted for a player i also scumread.  that's a good look for her in my eyes.  it just happens that i'm also not particularly convinced by the arguments against her.  i don't expect my read on koko to work for everyone, which is why i haven't been pushing it.

it's not the fact that you're scumreading seshas alone that bothers me here.  tbh² doesn't like her either, and they're one of my top town reads.  but tbh² is willing to participate in a discussion about it and critically consider their reads and the reads of others, whereas you've established a pattern of running into give your reads or point at those of others who agree with you, and then neglect to engage with points other people make beyond that you don't like them (for no clear reason other than that they contradict your read), which is something that irks me a lot.  you're not really participating in a discussion here, you're just pushing a wagon, and a fairly flimsy one at that.



Despicable Meme said:


> anyways -- the issue isn't that you're saying "she doesn't sound scummy", it's that you both keep introducing reasoning that Seshas herself never made. if I'm scumreading her, I'm obligated to figure out what her real thinking process was, but if you're townreading her, shouldn't her own arguments be self-sufficient?


 like what?


----------



## kyeugh

tbh² said:


> the mafia recruiter/cult recruiter roles like, cannot exist in the same setup im


 hmmm, why not?  mafia recruiter only works once, ime.


----------



## Keldeo

Gonna maybe repeat a mistake from Tarot, but I think if Seshas is actually mafia* here either their partners aren't present, or like... I guess Skylar's stance here would make sense as a partner, but the town role PM thing seems legit (inb4 Mawile provided mafia with sample role PMs), or there is some totally unnecessary bussing/TMIing going on.

*mafia = specifically ingroup anti-town faction etc. etc., which would make koko not-mafia imo and leave em extremely open to be pushed as a second option


----------



## tbh²

kyeugh said:


> tbh² said:
> 
> 
> 
> the mafia recruiter/cult recruiter roles like, cannot exist in the same setup im
> 
> 
> 
> hmmm, why not?  mafia recruiter only works once, ime.
Click to expand...

oh i didn't know. i was literally envisioning like. Two Cults.
-m


----------



## Keldeo

tbh² said:


> kyeugh said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> tbh² said:
> 
> 
> 
> the mafia recruiter/cult recruiter roles like, cannot exist in the same setup im
> 
> 
> 
> hmmm, why not?  mafia recruiter only works once, ime.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> oh i didn't know. i was literally envisioning like. Two Cults.
> -m
Click to expand...

One ought to have at least two,


----------



## storm

I will say during tarot mafia we were pretty... callous about defending fellow mafia from suspicion? which definitely worked in our favour for appearing innocent since we weren't working hard to keep our fellows alive, so it's possible given it worked once that mafia could be trying that again

but we also had a somewhat large group and several more useful and less useful power roles (one which was mine,,, if I had been less inexperienced I probably should've been lynched instead of trebek ksghrisgh), so if there's only a few in this game - I forget who raised that point, but I think it was very early on? - it's probably a less likely tactic?? idk


----------



## kyeugh

JackPK said:


> Seshas' posts in the early 300s (e.g. 326, 334) feel disingenuous in a way I find difficult to describe? like, Seshas is an experienced player who's demonstrated consistently that she's good at the game, so it doesn't make sense to me for her to be confused about cult mechanics. maybe I'm jumping to conclusions but it feels more like she was trying to waste time/lead discussion into an unproductive direction/raise doubts about how mechanics work when it's easy to just like... look up cults on the mafiascum and mafiauniverse wikis


 mm, i agree somewhat on this point to an extent, but i got similar and much more pronounced feelings from koko's posts here and here. i'd be curious to hear your thoughts on those and how you feel they compare to the posts from seshas's you specified.


----------



## kyeugh

Keldeo said:


> Gonna maybe repeat a mistake from Tarot, but I think if Seshas is actually mafia* here either their partners aren't present, or like... I guess Skylar's stance here would make sense as a partner, but the town role PM thing seems legit (inb4 Mawile provided mafia with sample role PMs), or there is some totally unnecessary bussing/TMIing going on.
> 
> *mafia = specifically ingroup anti-town faction etc. etc., which would make koko not-mafia imo and leave em extremely open to be pushed as a second option


 hmmmmm.  i'm curious who the seshas-voters think seshas's partners might be.


----------



## Keldeo

storm said:


> I will say during tarot mafia we were pretty... callous about defending fellow mafia from suspicion? which definitely worked in our favour for appearing innocent since we weren't working hard to keep our fellows alive, so it's possible given it worked once that mafia could be trying that again
> 
> but we also had a somewhat large group and several more useful and less useful power roles (one which was mine,,, if I had been less inexperienced I probably should've been lynched instead of trebek ksghrisgh), so if there's only a few in this game - I forget who raised that point, but I think it was very early on? - it's probably a less likely tactic?? idk


Yeah, I was thinking about how I miscleared mewtini in Tarot for bussing... although Jack's vote ended up looking bad there and I should have pressed it more. In general, though, I think the assumption that mafia do actually have some amount of self-preservation among themselves is a valid one.


----------



## tbh²

kyeugh said:


> hmmmmm. i'm curious who the seshas-voters think seshas's partners might be.


aside from 'people who aren't here' i don't really know tbh. like i guess you could make sense but. meh?
i think it's possible that jack/storm could be jumping on late (as fellow wolves w seshas) for cred or something but that's not like, something i think
-m


----------



## JackPK

kyeugh said:


> JackPK said:
> 
> 
> 
> Seshas' posts in the early 300s (e.g. 326, 334) feel disingenuous in a way I find difficult to describe? like, Seshas is an experienced player who's demonstrated consistently that she's good at the game, so it doesn't make sense to me for her to be confused about cult mechanics. maybe I'm jumping to conclusions but it feels more like she was trying to waste time/lead discussion into an unproductive direction/raise doubts about how mechanics work when it's easy to just like... look up cults on the mafiascum and mafiauniverse wikis
> 
> 
> 
> mm, i agree somewhat on this point to an extent, but i got similar and much more pronounced feelings from koko's posts here and here. i'd be curious to hear your thoughts on those and how you feel they compare to the posts from seshas's you specified.
Click to expand...

hm, good point. but fwiw it feels to me like e's more responding to the "what even _are_ cult mechanics" discussion that started with Trebek and Seshas circa 325/326, which _everyone_ in the thread was talking about at that time

if koko is scum, the posts you pointed out could be an opportunistic attempt to keep wasting time, but if e's villager, they could easily just be what everyone else was doing, talking in circles because the topic was at hand

tldr I guess I feel like those posts are kind of null indicator value because I feel like they're following the flow of everyone else in thread at that time, whereas I'm leaning more to scumreading Seshas' posts bc they're a significant part of what kicked off that topic in the first place


----------



## tbh²

tbh i do agree with skylar that this post is ?_? and i don't know if i should read it as scum stirring up confusion/halting other discourse, or as confused!townie. i have like. repeatedly gone back to this


kokorico said:


> because in that situation, the cult's wincon wouldn't just be "reach majority", it would be "reach majority _before the town eliminate the mafia_", which is... kinda arbitrary, and also allows the cult to be harmed by bad play from the mafia
> 
> I may be overthinking this but I don't see how it makes sense (in mafia games in general, not just this one) for town to win when not all antitown factions have been eliminated


-m


----------



## tbh²

i just keep kinda thinking that, gun to head, i think it sounds more earnest than not


----------



## kyeugh

JackPK said:


> kyeugh said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> JackPK said:
> 
> 
> 
> Seshas' posts in the early 300s (e.g. 326, 334) feel disingenuous in a way I find difficult to describe? like, Seshas is an experienced player who's demonstrated consistently that she's good at the game, so it doesn't make sense to me for her to be confused about cult mechanics. maybe I'm jumping to conclusions but it feels more like she was trying to waste time/lead discussion into an unproductive direction/raise doubts about how mechanics work when it's easy to just like... look up cults on the mafiascum and mafiauniverse wikis
> 
> 
> 
> mm, i agree somewhat on this point to an extent, but i got similar and much more pronounced feelings from koko's posts here and here. i'd be curious to hear your thoughts on those and how you feel they compare to the posts from seshas's you specified.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> hm, good point. but fwiw it feels to me like e's more responding to the "what even _are_ cult mechanics" discussion that started with Trebek and Seshas circa 325/326, which _everyone_ in the thread was talking about at that time
> 
> if koko is scum, the posts you pointed out could be an opportunistic attempt to keep wasting time, but if e's villager, they could easily just be what everyone else was doing, talking in circles because the topic was at hand
> 
> tldr I guess I feel like those posts are kind of null indicator value because I feel like they're following the flow of everyone else in thread at that time, whereas I'm leaning more to scumreading Seshas' posts bc they're a significant part of what kicked off that topic in the first place
Click to expand...

hmmm, ok. i think i can see where you’re coming from here. i would argue that if koko is scum then eir intention wasn’t to waste time but rather to cast doubt on the information town have access to.


----------



## storm

for what it's worth, koko's posts that kyeugh brought up have a similar vibe to me, so I'm uncertain about which, if either, denotes any kind of potential leaning towards mafia. I don't necessarily think the confusion is even out of character for them, because this seems like a deliberately very confusing setup, and the discussions and reads have... also been that


----------



## kyeugh

tbh² said:


> i just keep kinda thinking that, gun to head, i think it sounds more earnest than not


 i disagree tbh. however: i do think the fact that e emself brought up the point of it not applying to jesters etc (at least iirc) is something, and it’s given me some pause. that’s probably the major thing contradicting my read of em.

however i don’t see the wagons moving off koko/seshas, though, and until they do i think koko is where i’m going to have to stay. i might be open to a third wagon if anyone has any ideas.


----------



## Keldeo

Kind of getting to the "read 250 posts in <2 hours, brain fuzzy" point so I might take a little break. For all I've said about the Seshas cases, I think I'm vibing enough with Seshas/koko wagons, in that I haven't seen anything from them that really makes me sit up and bump them to "not today" tier.

@Seshas can you elaborate on your Trebek progression for me, and how you're viewing the possibility of cult at this time?


----------



## tbh²

what gives me pause on reading koko as earnest in the thing i quoted is that, uh, i think the 3p oversight is kind of big and i think koko would probably have known. it's kind of up to "how likely is it that e really thought emself in circles like that, given experience level" and i'm ... not sure. if seshas gets another vote i might move to balance wagons tbh
-m


----------



## tbh²

tbh² said:


> what gives me pause on reading koko as earnest in the thing i quoted is that, uh, i think the 3p oversight is kind of big and i think koko would probably have known. it's kind of up to "how likely is it that e really thought emself in circles like that, given experience level" and i'm ... not sure. if seshas gets another vote i might move to balance wagons tbh
> -m


but then e figured it out on eir own so idk
i guess that's NAI


----------



## kyeugh

can someone remind me when eod is again?


----------



## tbh²

kyeugh said:


> can someone remind me when eod is again?


at 8 eastern i think


----------



## JackPK

kyeugh said:


> can someone remind me when eod is again?





Mawile said:


> *Day 1 will end in 48 hours, at 5pm Pacific on July 22nd and midnight UTC on July 23rd.*


2 and a half hours


----------



## Mawile

kyeugh said:


> can someone remind me when eod is again?


in 2.5 hours


----------



## kyeugh

anyone? anyone at all?


----------



## Despicable Meme

Keldeo said:


> Seshas said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Seshas said:
> 
> 
> 
> *kokorico*
> 
> 
> 
> I feel like he's rushing a stance on the cultist thing for the purpose of taking one, instead of proceeding in good faith
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Inclined to say this specific tack makes Seshas/koko not w/w at least. It's like... if they were mafia partners, of course koko would be acting in "good faith" about a threat to both of them, so that occurs less to say?
Click to expand...

to respond to both this and kyeugh's prompt wrt scumbuddies, which I seem to have lost amidst the quote hell:
I do also feel quite certain that kokorico and seshas are unlikely to be w/w, which is in fact another good reason to sup the science here; and if seshas is scum, that'll reflect poorly on hydreigon, who seshas keeps randomly pointing to as towny, and on kyeugh, because the thing with the PM is a good look but like, not an obligate clear



kyeugh said:


> Despicable Meme said:
> 
> 
> 
> funny enough, I feel the exact same way about you. the PM thing probably clears you, but if it wasn't for that, I'd be wigged to a burning intensity about how set you are on Seshas being town and Kokorico being mafia, when all you have on the former is "I disagree with the going scumspec" (which points to a null read, not a town read) and all you have on the latter is "vibe bad", despite you and Seshas being prompted to elaborate multiple times by now.
> 
> 
> 
> that's not really all i have for seshas.  i don't believe these wagons are v/v, and seshas voted very early and basically unprompted for a player i also scumread.  that's a good look for her in my eyes.  it just happens that i'm also not particularly convinced by the arguments against her.  i don't expect my read on koko to work for everyone, which is why i haven't been pushing it.
> 
> it's not the fact that you're scumreading seshas alone that bothers me here.  tbh² doesn't like her either, and they're one of my top town reads.  but tbh² is willing to participate in a discussion about it and critically consider their reads and the reads of others, whereas you've established a pattern of running into give your reads or point at those of others who agree with you, and then neglect to engage with points other people make beyond that you don't like them (for no clear reason other than that they contradict your read), which is something that irks me a lot.  you're not really participating in a discussion here, you're just pushing a wagon, and a fairly flimsy one at that.
Click to expand...

oh yeah, so what you have on Seshas is that they're probably not w/w with Kokorico, which I agree with, but that ultimately just circles back to the strange level of confidence on Kokorico being scum

(that said, you finally did at least point to a couple of kokoposts that were wigging you, so, uh. time to open more tabs. my poor browser yearns for freedom I think I still have tbh²'s tier list open somewhere)



Despicable Meme said:


> anyways -- the issue isn't that you're saying "she doesn't sound scummy", it's that you both keep introducing reasoning that Seshas herself never made. if I'm scumreading her, I'm obligated to figure out what her real thinking process was, but if you're townreading her, shouldn't her own arguments be self-sufficient?


 like what?
[/QUOTE]


kyeugh said:


> like i've said a few times, we should absolutely not be using the lynch for the cult, least of all before we know for sure a cult even exists.  it was just speculation.





Keldeo said:


> In other words, generically I feel like third party hunting is pro-both mafia and town but town should probably focus on hunting for mafia, so like... I guess I'm landing at ehh I feel like Seshas probably just states that regardless of alignment if they really do have a cultist read on Trebek, with the "I don't feel like killing him for it" being a 'pro-town' addendum


----------



## Mawile

*Vote History* (please let me know if there's an error):

*Seshas voted kokorico (#192)
kyeugh voted kokorico (#234)*
Mist1422 voted Mawile (#313)
Seshas voted Mawile (#315)
Despicable Meme voted Mawile (#401)
storm voted Mawile (#409)
RedneckPhoenix voted RedneckPhoenix (#416)
RedneckPhoenix voted JackPK (#420)
*tbh^2 voted Seshas (#436)
RedneckPhoenix voted tbh^2 (#437)
Despicable Meme voted Seshas (#550)
JackPK voted Seshas (#601)

Vote Count*:
Seshas (3), kokorico (2), tbh^2 (1)


----------



## tbh²

Despicable Meme said:


> if seshas is scum, that'll reflect poorly on hydreigon, who seshas keeps randomly pointing to as towny, and on kyeugh, because the thing with the PM is a good look but like, not an obligate clear


disagree that it would look bad for skylar (by virtue of "town defending scum doesn't make town scummy")
-m


----------



## tbh²

tbh² said:


> Despicable Meme said:
> 
> 
> 
> if seshas is scum, that'll reflect poorly on hydreigon, who seshas keeps randomly pointing to as towny, and on kyeugh, because the thing with the PM is a good look but like, not an obligate clear
> 
> 
> 
> disagree that it would look bad for skylar (by virtue of "town defending scum doesn't make town scummy")
> -m
Click to expand...

i am very interested in hydreigon getting back around to giving seshas thoughts though


----------



## Keldeo

Waking nightmare that someone’s woofing hard and these wagons are actually both Just Town Here, which is actually plausibly probable, but like, hmmm no thanks anxiety.


----------



## Vipera Magnifica

I am here now, and have caught up with the thread.


----------



## Zori

ugh reading



Keldeo said:


> @Seshas can you elaborate on your Trebek progression for me, and how you're viewing the possibility of cult at this time?


I think the cults at this point in time are probably not real, since we found that our singular piece of evidence for a cult existing is untrustworthy anyways
Trebek I thought originally that "this is something a cultist would totally do, and it seems slightly awkward" and not that "town is unlikely to do this" and then I liked their tone and how they talked about the ability format in an uninformed way

I'm not that confident on W!koko but I think that's where I feel by far the most comfortable from any player


----------



## Zori

On an unrelated topic
I drew an eevee in my sketchbook and it was cute


----------



## Despicable Meme

hmmm, thinking about the kokoposts... well, they're _also_ very like someone who's never played vs a cult, but I have a much less clear idea of kokorico's mafia experience level. hmmmmm

I suppose I agree that they were strange, but I don't know about "potentially scummy" strange. for one, I'm not sure that "attempting to waste town's time with bad tangents" is, like, an actual scum strategy that anyone's ever consciously used. that said.... hmm. well, at least, the kokorico wagon seems less like red-hot nonsense to me now. with luck, I'll have an actual conclusion on whether to pursue it or stay on seshas before EoD


----------



## Zori

I continue to be keldeo-paranoid
I haven't picked up a good vibe from them but that's probably because I haven't been paying attention to thread


----------



## Vipera Magnifica

may as well try this

*Attach Lie Detector to Hydreigon25*

@Hydreigon25 do you mind answering me this real quick... are you mafia-aligned?


----------



## Zori

yet again the D1 lie detector strikes


----------



## Keldeo

I actually think the koko wagon having stood for so long is a decent look for em? I suppose the sizable opposition is... like... the existence of the Seshas push, but that seems villager-led. Maybe that's circular.


----------



## Despicable Meme

hmmmm, meh, it's ultimately not _extremely_ weird. in retrospect, I remember what I originally thought of those posts: they were pretty reminiscent of kokorico in acnh mafia, at least as much of it as I've actually read


----------



## tbh²

i am rereading and i think i might be back on villa koko tbh
-m


----------



## kyeugh

Vipera Magnifica said:


> may as well try this
> 
> *Attach Lie Detector to Hydreigon25*
> 
> @Hydreigon25 do you mind answering me this real quick... are you mafia-aligned?


wh.......!?!?!? not seshas or koko!?


----------



## tbh²

Vipera Magnifica said:


> may as well try this
> 
> *Attach Lie Detector to Hydreigon25*
> 
> @Hydreigon25 do you mind answering me this real quick... are you mafia-aligned?


why them...


----------



## tbh²

ah to be ninja'd
-m


----------



## Despicable Meme

that was a crazy awesome play but unfortunately, I'm supposing it's very easy for hydreigon to just not post for the next 2h, huh

dunno if they're even online, lesseee......


----------



## Vipera Magnifica

oh they're online, and viewing the thread


----------



## kyeugh

wait so if you happened to attach a lie detector to a mafia member could you just force them to out all their buddies lol.


----------



## Zori

I guess it's time for me to claim then? not like it matters


----------



## Zori

kyeugh said:


> wait so if you happened to attach a lie detector to a mafia member could you just force them to out all their buddies lol.


presumably they could just say "no" and it would return a lie


----------



## tbh²

Seshas said:


> I guess it's time for me to claim then? not like it matters


we still have a decent amount of time left before EoD !!
-m


----------



## Despicable Meme

kyeugh said:


> wait so if you happened to attach a lie detector to a mafia member could you just force them to out all their buddies lol.


or, well, they could just ignore the question; I'm assuming lies of omission don't count

(of course, refusing to respond to a simple alignment check would be quite a bit more directly alignment-indicative, so)


----------



## kyeugh

Seshas said:


> kyeugh said:
> 
> 
> 
> wait so if you happened to attach a lie detector to a mafia member could you just force them to out all their buddies lol.
> 
> 
> 
> presumably they could just say "no" and it would return a lie
Click to expand...

not if you ask them in sequence whether each player is mafia


----------



## kyeugh

this is beside the point i’m just lol.


----------



## Despicable Meme

well, in any case, I'm parking on *Hydreigon25* until they answer VM


----------



## Zori

Despicable Meme said:


> well, in any case, I'm parking on *Hydreigon25* until they answer VM


_screams internally_


----------



## Zori

I do see how people think of HMF as awkward, I was going to put something here but brain empty
it resolves EoD anyways


----------



## Keldeo

Given discussion of immunities, idt it's bad to reveal that I have an immunity and it is to being converted into an alien, so thinking emoji about the whole red herring thing, because obviously conversion into an alien is like... the two aliens would then have opposing win conditions so it'd be counterproductive. I think my role PM implies that aliens do exist, though, so that's a thing.


----------



## Zori

Keldeo said:


> Given discussion of immunities, idt it's bad to reveal that I have an immunity and it is to being converted into an alien


I hope that role does not exist
I think the chances of an alien or other bulletproof role being hit are lower than doctor purely because there are some players, like hydreigon, that probably aren't ever going to get N0'd


----------



## kyeugh

Keldeo said:


> Given discussion of immunities, idt it's bad to reveal that I have an immunity and it is to being converted into an alien, so thinking emoji about the whole red herring thing, because obviously conversion into an alien is like... the two aliens would then have opposing win conditions so it'd be counterproductive. I think my role PM implies that aliens do exist, though, so that's a thing.


 hmmm. my immunity is to being roleswapped—i wonder if yours is being roleswapped with the alien specifically? maybe there’s a role that swap’s two people’s roles (but not the bearer of the role)!? does this make sense. basically i’m kinda wondering if some of these immunities aren’t maybe rephrasings of the same things...?


----------



## kyeugh

if there’s no immunity to lie detector i’m gonna say these immunities might all be bullshit. i have knowledge of one other role that seems like there should be an immunity for that no one has mentioned yet.


----------



## Despicable Meme

hi, seshas! I guess I should attempt to play Keldeo Questions with you. so, leaving aside that you're the counterwagon, how strongly do you currently feel that kokorico is scum?



Keldeo said:


> Given discussion of immunities, idt it's bad to reveal that I have an immunity and it is to being converted into an alien, so thinking emoji about the whole red herring thing, because obviously conversion into an alien is like... the two aliens would then have opposing win conditions so it'd be counterproductive. I think my role PM implies that aliens do exist, though, so that's a thing.


hhhhhhhhhhmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm. man, so many of the immunities are to role-change/group-induction powers, huh


----------



## Hydreigon25

VM why would you waste that on me 



Vipera Magnifica said:


> may as well try this
> 
> *Attach Lie Detector to Hydreigon25*
> 
> @Hydreigon25 do you mind answering me this real quick... are you mafia-aligned?


I Am Not mafia-aligned


----------



## Keldeo

kyeugh said:


> Keldeo said:
> 
> 
> 
> Given discussion of immunities, idt it's bad to reveal that I have an immunity and it is to being converted into an alien, so thinking emoji about the whole red herring thing, because obviously conversion into an alien is like... the two aliens would then have opposing win conditions so it'd be counterproductive. I think my role PM implies that aliens do exist, though, so that's a thing.
> 
> 
> 
> hmmm. my immunity is to being roleswapped—i wonder if yours is being roleswapped with the alien specifically? maybe there’s a role that swap’s two people’s roles (but not the bearer of the role)!? does this make sense. basically i’m kinda wondering if some of these immunities aren’t maybe rephrasings of the same things...?
Click to expand...

That at least makes more sense to me than some kind of alien cult.


----------



## Despicable Meme

*Seshas*

also, @Hydreigon25 : are you town.


----------



## kyeugh

Despicable Meme said:


> hhhhhhhhhhmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm. man, so many of the immunities are to role-change/group-induction powers, huh


 for sure. this is what’s making me suspect maybe there are fewer roles than it appears at play and we’re getting immunities to specific applications of them? i’ll need to take another look at the immunity claims to consider how actually plausible this is.


----------



## Keldeo

Hmm. Hydreigon, can you do me a favor and say something untrue like "the sky is green" or "I am not a player in this game"?


----------



## kyeugh

Keldeo said:


> Hmm. Hydreigon, can you do me a favor and say something untrue like "the sky is green" or "I am not a player in this game"?


sure! the sky is green [gets modkilled]


----------



## Zori

Despicable Meme said:


> hi, seshas! I guess I should attempt to play Keldeo Questions with you. so, leaving aside that you're the counterwagon, how strongly do you currently feel that kokorico is scum?


Strongly enough that I feel like they have a higher chance of being a wolf than someone who has done nothing in either direction (say, emmy)
But like, I would definitely not be surprised if they flipped villager


----------



## Keldeo

kyeugh said:


> Keldeo said:
> 
> 
> 
> Hmm. Hydreigon, can you do me a favor and say something untrue like "the sky is green" or "I am not a player in this game"?
> 
> 
> 
> sure! the sky is green [gets modkilled]
Click to expand...

Uhhh I totally thought that through.

VM, what are the consequences if Hydreigon says a lie? I assumed it'd just be that if there was a lie detector, the detector would beep or something, a la that one game Superbird(?) ran ages ago


----------



## Despicable Meme

tbh² said:


> in 132 seshas mentions trebek looks like a possible cultist


herbe here - sorry guys last night was really weird and I wasn't quite thinking before posting
pulling this quote because this was the basis for my weird thoughts on kyeugh, was that i was sussing trebek early on and kyeugh was disingenuously ranking him as town but i don't really follow that line of reasoning anymore

i'm posting this but I've only read to page 28 so far just for context


----------



## Vipera Magnifica

Hydreigon25 said:


> VM why would you waste that on me
> 
> 
> 
> Vipera Magnifica said:
> 
> 
> 
> may as well try this
> 
> *Attach Lie Detector to Hydreigon25*
> 
> @Hydreigon25 do you mind answering me this real quick... are you mafia-aligned?
> 
> 
> 
> I Am Not mafia-aligned
Click to expand...

one last question: are you aligned with a cult?


----------



## Hydreigon25

Despicable Meme said:


> *Seshas*
> 
> also, @Hydreigon25 : are you town.


yes i am town 



Keldeo said:


> Hmm. Hydreigon, can you do me a favor and say something untrue like "the sky is green" or "I am not a player in this game"?


No Comment...


----------



## Trebek

hi, i’m back! attention was directed elsewhere for a bit, but now i’m almost done catching up

not sure why the lie detector was attached to hydre tbh

i think after mulling over it i am going to side with the *seshas *wagon? idk how much i like how HMF has been acting about it, as skylar has mentioned earlier, but i think i still want to vote here? idk. i just sorta have weird vibes regarding seshas’s progression on me tbh


----------



## Hydreigon25

Vipera Magnifica said:


> Hydreigon25 said:
> 
> 
> 
> VM why would you waste that on me
> 
> 
> 
> Vipera Magnifica said:
> 
> 
> 
> may as well try this
> 
> *Attach Lie Detector to Hydreigon25*
> 
> @Hydreigon25 do you mind answering me this real quick... are you mafia-aligned?
> 
> 
> 
> I Am Not mafia-aligned
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> one last question: are you aligned with a cult?
Click to expand...

No i am not


----------



## Keldeo

Keldeo said:


> Uhhh I totally thought that through.
> 
> VM, what are the consequences if Hydreigon says a lie? I assumed it'd just be that if there was a lie detector, the detector would beep or something, a la that one game Superbird(?) ran ages ago


(basically trying to stress test the hypothesis here that VM/Hydreigon is w/w and doing a bit to clear Hydreigon)


----------



## Keldeo

(but like probably that isn't falsifiable so whatever)


----------



## storm

mildly intrigued that hydreigon's font changed back between those answers


----------



## Trebek

also intrigued that half of hydre’s post dissapeared


----------



## Trebek

Trebek said:


> also intrigued that half of hydre’s post dissapeared


ok nvm i just can’t read


----------



## Vipera Magnifica

Alright @Hydreigon25 thanks for answering my questions

The lie detector was bullshit, I don't have any kind of role like that. But now I am reasonably certain that Hydreigon is town!

Gonna park my vote on *Seshas*


----------



## Despicable Meme

Despicable Meme said:


> tbh² said:
> 
> 
> 
> in 132 seshas mentions trebek looks like a possible cultist
> 
> 
> 
> herbe here - sorry guys last night was really weird and I wasn't quite thinking before posting
> pulling this quote because this was the basis for my weird thoughts on kyeugh, was that i was sussing trebek early on and kyeugh was disingenuously ranking him as town but i don't really follow that line of reasoning anymore
> 
> i'm posting this but I've only read to page 28 so far just for context
Click to expand...

by the way, other peeps who roll in hydras, you ever catch your other head's half-finished post in the textbox? because I did earlier and it was wild-

anyways, hmmm. I do feel more inclined than not to take the lie detector bit for what it is because, well, it's obviously not the first mechanic I've seen around here that forces a player to post some way or another. doesn't mean it's proven legit, but

it does diminish the expected science from lynching Seshas by one whole player, tho, which is h, although there's still not exactly a wagon I like better yet


----------



## Despicable Meme

oh ffs vm


----------



## Trebek

Vipera Magnifica said:


> Alright @Hydreigon25 thanks for answering my questions
> 
> The lie detector was bullshit, I don't have any kind of role like that. But now I am reasonably certain that Hydreigon is town!
> 
> Gonna park my vote on *Seshas*


i think i agree? the fact that hydre said “no comment” when asked to outright lie implies, at least to me, a genuine fear of what would happen if he lied

unless this is all scumtheater


----------



## Despicable Meme

Despicable Meme said:


> by the way, other peeps who roll in hydras, you ever catch your other head's half-finished post in the textbox? because I did earlier and it was wild-


this is funny because i saw this exact post in the textbox and tried to comment in it lmaoooo


----------



## Keldeo

VM, can you talk to me about your thinking on Seshas vs kokorico?


----------



## Trebek

Despicable Meme said:


> oh ffs vm


first it was the “i’m kidding i’m not actually a vig” in cats

now this


----------



## Mawile

Vote History (let me know if I made any mistakes):

*Seshas voted kokorico (#192)
kyeugh voted kokorico (#234)*
Mist1422 voted Mawile (#313)
Seshas voted Mawile (#315)
Despicable Meme voted Mawile (#401)
storm voted Mawile (#409)
RedneckPhoenix voted RedneckPhoenix (#416)
RedneckPhoenix voted JackPK (#420)
*tbh^2 voted Seshas (#436)
RedneckPhoenix voted tbh^2 (#437)*
Despicable Meme voted Seshas (#550)
*JackPK voted Seshas (#601)*
Despicable Meme voted Hydreigon25 (#660)
*Despicable Meme voted Seshas (#670)
Trebek voted Seshas (#679)
Vipera Magnifica voted Seshas (#686)*

Vote Count:
Seshas (5), kokorico (2), tbh^2 (1)


----------



## Vipera Magnifica

sorry for picking on you Hydreigon but your earlier posts were making me go  and I reckoned you would be the type of player to believe my lie detector bluff


----------



## Zori

I sort of doubt there are 2 lie detectors in a single game, so I don't really think VM is telling the truth?
But it was town-motivated anyways


----------



## Zori

_laughs in crosspost_


----------



## kyeugh

man i suspected it was fake but didn’t want to say so bc is it was that would ruin it
however. the thing about forcing someone to expose all their teammates was simply too universe brain to go unsaid


----------



## Keldeo

Trebek said:


> Vipera Magnifica said:
> 
> 
> 
> Alright @Hydreigon25 thanks for answering my questions
> 
> The lie detector was bullshit, I don't have any kind of role like that. But now I am reasonably certain that Hydreigon is town!
> 
> Gonna park my vote on *Seshas*
> 
> 
> 
> i think i agree? the fact that hydre said “no comment” when asked to outright lie implies, at least to me, a genuine fear of what would happen if he lied
> 
> unless this is all scumtheater
Click to expand...

Yeah I think this hard aligns VM and Hydreigon

The interaction still makes sense on Hydreigon’s end in a mafia VM / town Hydreigon world I guess, but... why clear town Hydreigon when he could just go after him?


----------



## Trebek

to elaborate on my current stance:

i think seshas’s dialogue during the cult discussion and progression on me both make at least some sense individually, but they feel weird together? like, wouldn’t the progression imply a much greater focus on cultspec than was actually exhibited? or am i reading wrong


----------



## kyeugh

what do y’all think the takeaways will be if seshas gets lynched and flips v


----------



## Trebek

Keldeo said:


> Trebek said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Vipera Magnifica said:
> 
> 
> 
> Alright @Hydreigon25 thanks for answering my questions
> 
> The lie detector was bullshit, I don't have any kind of role like that. But now I am reasonably certain that Hydreigon is town!
> 
> Gonna park my vote on *Seshas*
> 
> 
> 
> i think i agree? the fact that hydre said “no comment” when asked to outright lie implies, at least to me, a genuine fear of what would happen if he lied
> 
> unless this is all scumtheater
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Yeah I think this hard aligns VM and Hydreigon
> 
> The interaction still makes sense on Hydreigon’s end in a mafia VM / town Hydreigon world I guess, but... why clear town Hydreigon when he could just go after him?
Click to expand...

yeah i could buy both w/w and v/v, but w/v definitely feels off unless it’s galaxy brain pocketing


----------



## kyeugh

“why would you waste this on me” felt familiar in a way that had be vaguely considering them as cultists but idk that that really makes sense given everything else


----------



## Keldeo

Hydreigon25 said:


> VM why would you waste that on me


Mm. Do you think people should be townreading you?


----------



## Trebek

Trebek said:


> Keldeo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Trebek said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Vipera Magnifica said:
> 
> 
> 
> Alright @Hydreigon25 thanks for answering my questions
> 
> The lie detector was bullshit, I don't have any kind of role like that. But now I am reasonably certain that Hydreigon is town!
> 
> Gonna park my vote on *Seshas*
> 
> 
> 
> i think i agree? the fact that hydre said “no comment” when asked to outright lie implies, at least to me, a genuine fear of what would happen if he lied
> 
> unless this is all scumtheater
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Yeah I think this hard aligns VM and Hydreigon
> 
> The interaction still makes sense on Hydreigon’s end in a mafia VM / town Hydreigon world I guess, but... why clear town Hydreigon when he could just go after him?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> yeah i could buy both w/w and v/v, but w/v definitely feels off unless it’s galaxy brain pocketing
Click to expand...

i feel like the whole thing is NAI for VM tho so not gonna conclude terribly much from this right now

almost got ninjad by skylar but just gonna tack on to this post that that kinda makes sense tbh


----------



## kyeugh

Trebek said:


> Despicable Meme said:
> 
> 
> 
> oh ffs vm
> 
> 
> 
> first it was the “i’m kidding i’m not actually a vig” in cats
> 
> now this
Click to expand...

this actually reminds me more of the test he gave me, as well as the fakeout about who he was going to shoot. i’m somewhat tempted to townread vm bc he was town there, but i guess i don’t really know that he wouldn’t do something like that as scum


----------



## Keldeo

I actually really like koko's posting about the cult and win condition stuff and don't really see what Skylar is saying, I vibe with it seeming earnest > disingenuous.


----------



## Hydreigon25

Keldeo said:


> Hydreigon25 said:
> 
> 
> 
> VM why would you waste that on me
> 
> 
> 
> Mm. Do you think people should be townreading you?
Click to expand...

Yes because to be fair I really am town


----------



## Trebek

also, another random thought i had:

i was going to respond to skylar’s “what happens if seshas flips v” but in the process of trying to figure out my answer i re-remembered how off seshas’s TR of hydre felt (even if hydre is indeed town, it still feels like the kind of read that could be tmi-consider me x blu in acnh)

still want to respond to that question btw but just throwing this out


----------



## Keldeo

Meh I don't really feel that uneasy about Seshas's posting on the matter either, but like... a 5-2 wagon split at 1.5 hours before EOD, with even more prevailing sentiment against the 5 than there are votes, is a wagon split that makes me think maybe my opinion doesn't actually matter...?


----------



## Trebek

i think if seshas flips v i might want to reconsider wether the rnpXhmf interaction should be considered to have cleared either of them? out of the people on the seshas wagon rn thats what i feel the most awkward about


----------



## Trebek

dont remember if hmf moved their vote back but yeah.


----------



## kyeugh

Keldeo said:


> a 5-2 wagon split at 1.5 hours before EOD, with even more prevailing sentiment against the 5 than there are votes


can you explain what you mean here a bit more? don’t think i’m tracking


----------



## Keldeo

kyeugh said:


> what do y’all think the takeaways will be if seshas gets lynched and flips v


If that's the case I have a hard time seeing this as a pure wagon, so I'd look at Jack, (storm who is on the wagon in spirit afaict), Trebek, and VM, I guess? tbh like seems legit so far, and I'm currently trusting in RNP being town so Despicable Meme would be resolving at EOD.


----------



## Keldeo

kyeugh said:


> Keldeo said:
> 
> 
> 
> a 5-2 wagon split at 1.5 hours before EOD, with even more prevailing sentiment against the 5 than there are votes
> 
> 
> 
> can you explain what you mean here a bit more? don’t think i’m tracking
Click to expand...

I mean that it seems like almost everyone who's been here since the Seshas wagon popped up is like, okay with Seshas dying. Even the people not voting them, which is what I mean by prevailing sentiment. That doesn't make them town obviously (gestures to Mr. Ultracool in Cats) - it easily could point to absent or bussing partners.


----------



## Keldeo

I guess also I’d vote for Seshas to save koko, but the wagon’s ahead enough right now that I’m not super worried about that.


----------



## tbh²

Trebek said:


> i feel like the whole thing is NAI for VM tho so not gonna conclude terribly much from this right now


do you?
i kind of just immediately snapread "omg town" because i am a fool who thinks Big Gambit! Not Lurky! Town!


Despicable Meme said:


> by the way, other peeps who roll in hydras, you ever catch your other head's half-finished post in the textbox? because I did earlier and it was wild-


yes omfg.
-m


----------



## Keldeo

I don’t really know what to make of Seshas being sort of limp and seeming close to giving up recently...?


----------



## Zori

tbh² said:


> Trebek said:
> 
> 
> 
> i feel like the whole thing is NAI for VM tho so not gonna conclude terribly much from this right now
> 
> 
> 
> do you?
> i kind of just immediately snapread "omg town" because i am a fool who thinks Big Gambit! Not Lurky! Town!
Click to expand...

same tbh


----------



## Keldeo

Keldeo said:


> kyeugh said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Keldeo said:
> 
> 
> 
> a 5-2 wagon split at 1.5 hours before EOD, with even more prevailing sentiment against the 5 than there are votes
> 
> 
> 
> can you explain what you mean here a bit more? don’t think i’m tracking
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I mean that it seems like almost everyone who's been here since the Seshas wagon popped up is like, okay with Seshas dying. Even the people not voting them, which is what I mean by prevailing sentiment. That doesn't make them town obviously (gestures to Mr. Ultracool in Cats) - it easily could point to absent or bussing partners.
Click to expand...

I guess also I just feel kind of useless right now, hehe... I’m not a fan of playing from behind but that’s what I’ve been doing all today basically.


----------



## RedneckPhoenix

someone summarize the last 8 pages for me i got 1/4 thru catching up and then something came up


----------



## kyeugh

Keldeo said:


> kyeugh said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Keldeo said:
> 
> 
> 
> a 5-2 wagon split at 1.5 hours before EOD, with even more prevailing sentiment against the 5 than there are votes
> 
> 
> 
> can you explain what you mean here a bit more? don’t think i’m tracking
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I mean that it seems like almost everyone who's been here since the Seshas wagon popped up is like, okay with Seshas dying. Even the people not voting them, which is what I mean by prevailing sentiment. That doesn't make them town obviously (gestures to Mr. Ultracool in Cats) - it easily could point to absent or bussing partners.
Click to expand...

hmmm, yeah. fwiw i would say the “absent” players are butterfree, emmy, and arguably rnp/mist.


----------



## kyeugh

oh speak of the devil.


----------



## Keldeo

kyeugh said:


> oh speak of the devil.


And Here He Comes Now!


----------



## Trebek

tbh² said:


> Trebek said:
> 
> 
> 
> i feel like the whole thing is NAI for VM tho so not gonna conclude terribly much from this right now
> 
> 
> 
> do you?
> i kind of just immediately snapread "omg town" because i am a fool who thinks Big Gambit! Not Lurky! Town!
Click to expand...

that was my initial snapread as well, but i could also equally see this being w/w (or honestly even w/v bc the more i think about it the more VM trying to pocket hydre seems to be a possibility)
i think the only spread that doesnt really make sense here is v/w?


----------



## tbh²

Seshas said:


> tbh² said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Trebek said:
> 
> 
> 
> i feel like the whole thing is NAI for VM tho so not gonna conclude terribly much from this right now
> 
> 
> 
> do you?
> i kind of just immediately snapread "omg town" because i am a fool who thinks Big Gambit! Not Lurky! Town!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> same tbh
Click to expand...

it also is reminding me of the thing he did in cats where he pushed skylar into the vig guess
-m


----------



## tbh²

oh wait skylar said that.
-m


----------



## Vipera Magnifica

kyeugh said:


> Trebek said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Despicable Meme said:
> 
> 
> 
> oh ffs vm
> 
> 
> 
> first it was the “i’m kidding i’m not actually a vig” in cats
> 
> now this
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> this actually reminds me more of the test he gave me, as well as the fakeout about who he was going to shoot. i’m somewhat tempted to townread vm bc he was town there, but i guess i don’t really know that he wouldn’t do something like that as scum
Click to expand...

sometimes you gotta take a gamble and lie to try fooling the mafia


----------



## Despicable Meme

kyeugh said:


> what do y’all think the takeaways will be if seshas gets lynched and flips v


well, you'd come out of such an event looking strongly towny, and moreover, I'd be casting aspersions on the people who hopped on the wagon later, esp being that it was tied until it took off hard

beyond that, I feel like something could potentially be gleaned from the rest of the seshas posts in that occasion but I am too brainfried to puzzle it out atm

anyways, as for VM's alignment, I do agree it's very likely that he's aligned with Hydreigon, making this either a genuine spectacle or an all-around intentional farce. that VM hopped on the Seshas wagon right after pulling it means that the result of it also has a fair deal of science potential on him, but like, in ways that are more complicated than I am properly logicking rn


----------



## Keldeo

Trebek said:


> tbh² said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Trebek said:
> 
> 
> 
> i feel like the whole thing is NAI for VM tho so not gonna conclude terribly much from this right now
> 
> 
> 
> do you?
> i kind of just immediately snapread "omg town" because i am a fool who thinks Big Gambit! Not Lurky! Town!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> that was my initial snapread as well, but i could also equally see this being w/w (or honestly even w/v bc the more i think about it the more VM trying to pocket hydre seems to be a possibility)
> i think the only spread that doesnt really make sense here is v/w?
Click to expand...

I agree with you in the main, but like, why would he want to pocket Hydreigon of everyone? I'm not really seeing that.


----------



## Trebek

Keldeo said:


> Trebek said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> tbh² said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Trebek said:
> 
> 
> 
> i feel like the whole thing is NAI for VM tho so not gonna conclude terribly much from this right now
> 
> 
> 
> do you?
> i kind of just immediately snapread "omg town" because i am a fool who thinks Big Gambit! Not Lurky! Town!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> that was my initial snapread as well, but i could also equally see this being w/w (or honestly even w/v bc the more i think about it the more VM trying to pocket hydre seems to be a possibility)
> i think the only spread that doesnt really make sense here is v/w?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I agree with you in the main, but like, why would he want to pocket Hydreigon of everyone? I'm not really seeing that.
Click to expand...

thats why im not 100% invested in the theory, bc idk why he would choose that, unless its the WIFOM of "why would he choose that lol"


----------



## Zori

I think that this is solidly Town!Vipera, based of play in Cats and TvT
which is cool because Town!Hydreigon


----------



## kyeugh

Keldeo said:


> Trebek said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> tbh² said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Trebek said:
> 
> 
> 
> i feel like the whole thing is NAI for VM tho so not gonna conclude terribly much from this right now
> 
> 
> 
> do you?
> i kind of just immediately snapread "omg town" because i am a fool who thinks Big Gambit! Not Lurky! Town!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> that was my initial snapread as well, but i could also equally see this being w/w (or honestly even w/v bc the more i think about it the more VM trying to pocket hydre seems to be a possibility)
> i think the only spread that doesnt really make sense here is v/w?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I agree with you in the main, but like, why would he want to pocket Hydreigon of everyone? I'm not really seeing that.
Click to expand...

 hydreigon is the only hydra in the game that has three heads. a massive boon to be sure.


----------



## Keldeo

Seshas said:


> I think that this is solidly Town!Vipera, based of play in Cats and TvT
> which is cool because Town!Hydreigon


Seshas, I think if you're town, there's a mafia on your wagon. Do you disagree? If not, who do you think it could be?


----------



## Trebek

kyeugh said:


> Keldeo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Trebek said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> tbh² said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Trebek said:
> 
> 
> 
> i feel like the whole thing is NAI for VM tho so not gonna conclude terribly much from this right now
> 
> 
> 
> do you?
> i kind of just immediately snapread "omg town" because i am a fool who thinks Big Gambit! Not Lurky! Town!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> that was my initial snapread as well, but i could also equally see this being w/w (or honestly even w/v bc the more i think about it the more VM trying to pocket hydre seems to be a possibility)
> i think the only spread that doesnt really make sense here is v/w?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I agree with you in the main, but like, why would he want to pocket Hydreigon of everyone? I'm not really seeing that.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> hydreigon is the only hydra in the game that has three heads. a massive boon to be sure.
Click to expand...

ok embarrassing story time

when i first played through White i basically only used emboar and noone else

and when ghetsis went to send out hydreigon i panicked bc i saw "hydr-" and instead of concluding "oh like a hydra", i went "omg crap its a water type"

and for some reason i never fact checked it for ages


----------



## kyeugh

ghetsis sent out hydration!


----------



## RedneckPhoenix

to be fair emboar kinda stomps b/w


----------



## qenya

phew I finally caught up! I know I said it would be nice to have more to work with, but, well. Be careful what you wish for.

misc quick responses I picked up with the multiquote:



JackPK said:


> kokorico said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Trebek said:
> 
> 
> 
> and yeah, i definitely think that the lack of a NK was due to PR interference, but i don’t think it’s worth it to spec on this right now bc like, for all we know multiple townies have roles that could affect the NK, and it’s no use talking about them all if we can’t even decide which one was responsible for what happened last night
> 
> 
> 
> hard agree - another reason why I thought jack's "if a roleblocker/jailkeeper targeted someone n0, maybe they could point us in the right direction?" (paraphrased) was misguided at best
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> y'know I wrote that and then went to bed and, before I drifted off to sleep, thought to myself "I didn't phrase that very well did I, people are gonna latch onto that" but didn't think it was important enough to get back up out of bed for
> 
> my intention was not to directly call for a roleblocker/etc to roleclaim now, more to encourage roleblocker/etc to come forward _once they feel they have enough evidence to firmly implicate someone_, which idk could be toDay if they're a combination roleblocker+something else that gives info, could be toMorrow, could be the next Day, the Day after, who knows. just whenever they have felt they have info that's useful enough to offset the danger of revealing themselves
> 
> (if town roleblocker/etc even exists at all)
Click to expand...

this makes sense, thank you for expanding on it! good to have confirmation (a) that I did more or less get what you meant and (b) that you didn't mean anything sinister by it. as Trebek said a few posts after you, that kind of going-back-after-the-last-few-days-mechinfo-to-figure-out-conclusions is super useful



kyeugh said:


> i've also disliked their reaction to the votes on em—eir lack of engagement there feels to me like a wolf trying not to look like they're panicking about a few votes. then, as we approach eod, i'm increasingly convinced these wagons are w/v, which sort of strengthens my belief here.


in my defense, it's not as if there's really anything to engage with

neither you nor seshas have actually presented any reasoning to argue against



tbh² said:


> tbh i do agree with skylar that this post is ?_? and i don't know if i should read it as scum stirring up confusion/halting other discourse, or as confused!townie. i have like. repeatedly gone back to this
> 
> 
> kokorico said:
> 
> 
> 
> because in that situation, the cult's wincon wouldn't just be "reach majority", it would be "reach majority _before the town eliminate the mafia_", which is... kinda arbitrary, and also allows the cult to be harmed by bad play from the mafia
> 
> I may be overthinking this but I don't see how it makes sense (in mafia games in general, not just this one) for town to win when not all antitown factions have been eliminated
> 
> 
> 
> -m
Click to expand...

agh I wondered even as I was saying all that stuff whether it was wise since _someone_ would be guaranteed to misinterpret it

very abbreviated summary of where I was coming from there: I am used to the town wincon being nothing more or less than "you win when all threats to town have been eliminated, or when this cannot be prevented". in that situation a cult _would_ need to be eliminated. I wasn't sure if the difference in phrasing with the town wincon in this game was significant or not. in addition, I've never actually played against a cult before and so I was trying to reason out how it would work from a game design perspective to see what kinds of interactions with other factions' wincons would make sense.

for the record, in light of what we know now about the insane variety of immunities, my current view is that a cult is no more likely to exist than a masonizer, mafia recruiter, alieniser etc, which is to say, probably not.



tbh² said:


> what gives me pause on reading koko as earnest in the thing i quoted is that, uh, i think the 3p oversight is kind of big and i think koko would probably have known. it's kind of up to "how likely is it that e really thought emself in circles like that, given experience level" and i'm ... not sure. if seshas gets another vote i might move to balance wagons tbh
> -m


as an aside, I am perennially astonished by how high people estimate my "experience level" to be

before tvt I hadn't even played mafia for, like, three years, and the play on my previous home forum was nowhere near as high-calibre as you guys. so in terms of experience, what you see is what you got



tbh² said:


> by the way, other peeps who roll in hydras, you ever catch your other head's half-finished post in the textbox? because I did earlier and it was wild-
> 
> 
> 
> yes omfg.
> -m
Click to expand...

haha, this happened to me and blu the other day! I was like, "wh-? I didn't write this- ohhhh"

---

as far as the votes go, to nobody's surprise, I guess I'm going for *Seshas*

the discussion about her cult opinions went a bit over my head, but I get the gist where mewt and H&M&F are coming from and I still don't think we ever found out why she wanted to vote for me in the first place. plus it's not as if there are any other wagons anyway.

i am probably around until eod if anyone has questions for me.


----------



## RedneckPhoenix

heat crash man... i wanna hack my game to put heat crash on a joltik


----------



## Trebek

RedneckPhoenix said:


> to be fair emboar kinda stomps b/w


please

N's sigilyph stopped me in my tracks for weeks

bc i didnt have any rock type moves


----------



## RedneckPhoenix

n's sigilyph ain't shit why does everyone think it's so bad to fight


----------



## kyeugh

kokorico said:


> neither you nor seshas have actually presented any reasoning to argue against


 i don’t think this is true, but even if it were—surely that’s reason to ask?


----------



## Keldeo

Do you have any strong opinions that you haven't yet posted about, koko?


----------



## Keldeo

Keldeo said:


> Do you have any strong opinions that you haven't yet posted about, koko?


Related to people's alignments rather than mech speculation, I mean.


----------



## Keldeo

I'm getting some water! Stay hydrated, hydra and hydraless friends!


----------



## Despicable Meme

hmmm. I feel to press koko on what kyeugh did provide as far as reasoning, but I guess e basically just did by explaining eir thoughts from earlier?


----------



## Vipera Magnifica

@tbh² if Seshas flips wolf, who do you think will be the prime suspect for yeeting tomorrow? and what about if she flips town?


----------



## qenya

kyeugh said:


> kokorico said:
> 
> 
> 
> neither you nor seshas have actually presented any reasoning to argue against
> 
> 
> 
> i don’t think this is true, but even if it were—surely that’s reason to ask?
Click to expand...

I don't remember if I ever explicitly phrased it as a question, but I have _definitely_ commented several times on how I don't understand what the motivation is for a wagon against me, either from town or from scum. and no, "I don't like eir posts" is not what I mean by "reasoning"



Keldeo said:


> Do you have any strong opinions that you haven't yet posted about, koko?


Strong opinions, no, I don't think so. Some kind of _weak_ opinions I don't think I've mentioned yet:

raritini is probably my strongest non-mech read, because - unlike mewt in snom! - I've been consistently able to follow her logic and understand how she's come to her conclusions
I'm erring towards believing RNP, because H&M&F has been making some excellent points over the last few hours (the one that stood out to me was mentioning that kyeugh was likely town for being the first one to state the town wincon, which is a high-risk thing for them to point out as mafia), and I don't think that pairing makes sense as w/v.


----------



## qenya

kokorico said:


> raritini is probably my strongest non-mech read


non-mechn **town*read


----------



## Despicable Meme

kokorico said:


> raritini is probably my strongest non-mech read, because - unlike mewt in snom! - I've been consistently able to follow her logic and understand how she's come to her conclusions



oh yeah, I keep forgetting to mention where I'm at with tbh²'s alignment at the moment? I'm basically vibing if only because mewtini feels a world of different from tarot; I'm always wary of being pocketed and leaning too hard on unsubstantiated tone reads and whatnot, but yeah



kokorico said:


> I'm erring towards believing RNP, because H&M&F has been making some excellent points over the last few hours (the one that stood out to me was mentioning that kyeugh was likely town for being the first one to state the town wincon, which is a high-risk thing for them to point out as mafia), and I don't think that pairing makes sense as w/v.


hmmm, I feel a need to clarify, that felt halfway obvious to me when it happened; I posted about it later mostly because I could not mcfreakin remember who exactly it was-


----------



## Despicable Meme

formatting hates me today


----------



## kyeugh

kokorico said:


> I don't remember if I ever explicitly phrased it as a question, but I have _definitely_ commented several times on how I don't understand what the motivation is for a wagon against me, either from town or from scum. and no, "I don't like eir posts" is not what I mean by "reasoning"


 yeah, that is the very reaction i didn’t like tbh.

there has been more reasoning than “i don’t like eir posts.”


----------



## tbh²

we r not caught up yet sorry, one of us will be in action soon(tm)
question for da thread, is there anyone who has any interest in a third wagon? just remembered my v/v Nightmare and figure i might as well ask this for science
-m


----------



## tbh²

Vipera Magnifica said:


> @tbh² if Seshas flips wolf, who do you think will be the prime suspect for yeeting tomorrow? and what about if she flips town?


i am still not caught up, but i can say that if seshas indeed flips wolf i’ll be very determined to convince mewtini that keldeo is wolf, solely on the basis of his 580
i think his logic there talking about wincons doesn’t really add up and it’s not what i would expect of keldeo to genuinely believe in, especially considering that the town’s wincon isn’t “eliminate all threats to town”
ftr i am currently on page 30
- rari
i must wait 9 seconds


----------



## tbh²

tbh² said:


> is there anyone who has any interest in a third wagon?


er, not 'interest' per se, but any candidates they want to mention while it isn't like 15 to EoD


----------



## kyeugh

tbh² said:


> question for da thread, is there anyone who has any interest in a third wagon?


 in general, yes. specifically, no. i think everyone looks more or less fine for now, excepting players who might not appear in the thread again before eod, which isn’t ideal.


----------



## Novae

hi pokemon reborn is going to make me cry

when's EoD and what's going on


----------



## Hydreigon25

This might not get resolved by EoD1
but what does everyone think about these 3 

JackPK
 Ysabel
 Trebek​
I'm kinda thinking at least 1 might be worth looking into if not all 3 by N1/D2​


----------



## Keldeo

I think post 436 makes tbh fairly likely to be town... I'm not that interested in talking about why, I will if it becomes relevant

If there's anything I'd "hmm" at it's calling a straightforward answer to something they prompted LAMIST but I think the TR on the former thing outweighs that


----------



## tbh²

is ... ysabel in the game?
-m


----------



## kyeugh

Hydreigon25 said:


> This might not get resolved by EoD1
> but what does everyone think about these 3
> 
> JackPK
> 
> Ysabel
> 
> Trebek
> 
> 
> I'm kinda thinking at least 1 might be worth looking into if not all 3 by N1/D2


ysabel isn’t in the game i don’t think?


Mist1422 said:


> hi pokemon reborn is going to make me cry
> 
> when's EoD and what's going on


 it’s in a bit less than an hour. seshas vs koko rn, seshas leading by a good bit iirc.


----------



## Mawile

tbh² said:


> is ... ysabel in the game?
> -m


no


----------



## kyeugh

well then, i think ysabel is nice.


----------



## storm

do you have any reason for suggesting those... two?


----------



## Mawile

(pagetop yet again. i am the king of the thread)


----------



## Despicable Meme

Mist1422 said:


> when's EoD and what's going on


very soon and too much

I'm not too strongly attached to the seshas wagon, so if anyone manages to come up with a better idea in this very short timegap, I might vibe


----------



## kyeugh

i feel better than not about trebek, but it’s mostly tone and i think his tone was very good last game and he was scum, so i don’t want to put too much stock into that. still gonna say he’s ok for now.

jack is null, idk.


----------



## tbh²

Hydreigon25 said:


> This might not get resolved by EoD1
> but what does everyone think about these 3
> 
> JackPK
> 
> Ysabel
> 
> Trebek
> 
> 
> I'm kinda thinking at least 1 might be worth looking into if not all 3 by N1/D2


loosely surprised you don't mention VM in that since you seemed to be suspecting him earlier in the day, did something change? (lie detector test maybe ig?)
-m


----------



## tbh²

i'm TRing jack/trebek with some seriousness right now tbh
-m


----------



## Keldeo

tbh² said:


> Vipera Magnifica said:
> 
> 
> 
> @tbh² if Seshas flips wolf, who do you think will be the prime suspect for yeeting tomorrow? and what about if she flips town?
> 
> 
> 
> i am still not caught up, but i can say that if seshas indeed flips wolf i’ll be very determined to convince mewtini that keldeo is wolf, solely on the basis of his 580
> i think his logic there talking about wincons doesn’t really add up and it’s not what i would expect of keldeo to genuinely believe in, especially considering that the town’s wincon isn’t “eliminate all threats to town”
> ftr i am currently on page 30
> - rari
> i must wait 9 seconds
Click to expand...

Let's talk about that logic then, rari, because it is what I genuinely believe in, and I'd like to bridge that gap if we can. What doesn't make sense to you about both mafia and town wanting to hunt cultists, if the mafia win condition is indeed something like "eliminate all threats to mafia"? You can say that that's a big "if" considering the town win condition, I wouldn't dispute that.


----------



## Despicable Meme

when we have more time, I do want to a) try to figure out Jack more and b) prod Butterfree more

I am, again, more favourable than not on Trebek, but I'm not sure I even get why, and the other head may bite me for this-


----------



## Novae

I'm going to pretend Hydre derp cleared by not knowing Ysabel wasn't in the game and stick to that read for literally 0 reason


----------



## Keldeo

tbh² said:


> Hydreigon25 said:
> 
> 
> 
> This might not get resolved by EoD1
> but what does everyone think about these 3
> 
> JackPK
> 
> Ysabel
> 
> Trebek
> 
> 
> I'm kinda thinking at least 1 might be worth looking into if not all 3 by N1/D2
> 
> 
> 
> loosely surprised you don't mention VM in that since you seemed to be suspecting him earlier in the day, did something change? (lie detector test maybe ig?)
> -m
Click to expand...

He said he would clear VM for having the lie detector, but idt he updated that after VM said he lied. 

Can you tell me about Jack, mewt?


----------



## Zori

mrowr?
@ whoever said what, the dummy wagonomics steps are overrated IMO (such as there has to be a wolf on the swords wagon, etc.)
just look at stances with the votecount in mind


----------



## kyeugh

Mist1422 said:


> I'm going to pretend Hydre derp cleared by not knowing Ysabel wasn't in the game and stick to that read for literally 0 reason


 there may be a bigger derpclear for hydrei tbh.


----------



## tbh²

Keldeo said:


> Can you tell me about Jack, mewt?


distracted but this is what i said earlier


tbh² said:


> jack just feels soooo out of wolf meta, i think that's largely why rari and i placed him there. i remember him being so careful in tarot as scum and he just seems so stoked to be playing here ;____; this could swing clearly but. he's contributing a lot more subjective opinion this time around which i get the impression he doesn't do (or doesn't like doing) as a wolf


----------



## Keldeo

Despicable Meme said:


> I am, again, more favourable than not on Trebek, but I'm not sure I even get why


This basically sums up my read on Trebek lol, I think mentally I have him in "not today" tier even though I don't really remember why I put him there


----------



## Vipera Magnifica

I do think it's a little weird that Seshas has a virtually uncontested wagon right now, but something was definitely making me suspicious of their posts when I was reading earlier and the reasons other people have mentioned seem like a reasonable cause for suspicion. I'm keeping my vote on her for now because I don't really see any alternative right now? Still, I am open to the idea of a third wagon but only if it's Despicable Meme.


----------



## Zori

I might as well claim now?
I am RNP's sandwich quote, can give a sandwich each night to a player which provides a notification
and once per game I can protect someone and die in their place if they're attacked


----------



## kyeugh

i feel like i had a good reason for coming out of the “what if there’s no mafia!?” discussion with a good feeling about trebek, but now i can’t remember it and i feel weird.


----------



## Zori

Seshas said:


> I might as well claim now?
> I am RNP's sandwich quote, can give a sandwich each night to a player which provides a notification
> and once per game I can protect someone and die in their place if they're attacked


N0 Mist


----------



## kyeugh

Seshas said:


> I might as well claim now?
> I am RNP's sandwich quote, can give a sandwich each night to a player which provides a notification
> and once per game I can protect someone and die in their place if they're attacked


did anyone receive a sandwich last night that can back this up?


----------



## Trebek

Seshas said:


> I might as well claim now?
> I am RNP's sandwich quote, can give a sandwich each night to a player which provides a notification
> and once per game I can protect someone and die in their place if they're attacked


did you give out a sandwich last night?


----------



## Trebek

oh ninjad 

7 seconds haha


----------



## Keldeo

To answer MF's prompt I don't have a better idea for wagons but also don't feel bad about the current one. I'm like whatever about flipping Seshas, and idt koko or tbh is going over at this point.


----------



## Despicable Meme

Seshas said:


> I might as well claim now?
> I am RNP's sandwich quote, can give a sandwich each night to a player which provides a notification
> and once per game I can protect someone and die in their place if they're attacked


hmmmm. did someone else talk about sandwiches earlier in the thread? I vaguely remember that happenning


----------



## Novae

Seshas said:


> I might as well claim now?
> I am RNP's sandwich quote, can give a sandwich each night to a player which provides a notification
> and once per game I can protect someone and die in their place if they're attacked


confirming the sandwich tbh


----------



## kyeugh

um, if mist ends up validating this i’m going to feel really weird about her. also if she doesn’t but seshas ends up flipping town.


----------



## Keldeo

@Mist1422 Did you receive a sandwich last night?

Don't really think that what seems to be effectively fruit vendor is alignment-indicative anyway


----------



## Novae

Seshas said:


> good news guys
> 
> hardclaim *Rueben, Mafia Sandwich Maker*
> The sandwiches buff the rate of every ITA you make by 5% so be sure to eat them
> ready to get shot D4/yeeted D2/spam grilled cheeses on Lukundo for him to whiff his shot anyways/whatever
> 
> yes this was prewritten no I don't care


this is the soft I mentioned earlier


----------



## Trebek

unless anyone wants to cc a role that can send notifications?


----------



## Zori

fwiw this is almost certainly the message that she was talking about w/r/t "this could out a power role, I'm pretty sure I caught a soft for it"


----------



## Keldeo

kyeugh said:


> um, if mist ends up validating this i’m going to feel really weird about her.


Huh, why?


----------



## tbh²

yeah i'm kind of concerned about the seshas wagon growth :'D but between seshas/koko i think we probably stay on seshas unless rari's/my imminent reread uncovers something suddenly

sudden ETA seshas rolling over back there and being really into claiming early and now claiming with 40 minutes left (fruit vendor + oneshot babysitter?) is meh
-m


----------



## Novae

*kokorico*

not letting seshas go over sorry


----------



## tbh²

Seshas said:


> fwiw this is almost certainly the message that she was talking about w/r/t "this could out a power role, I'm pretty sure I caught a soft for it"


ohhhh.


----------



## kyeugh

kyeugh said:


> um, if mist ends up validating this i’m going to feel really weird about her. also if she doesn’t but seshas ends up flipping town.


uhhh, nvm actually, for some reason i was thinking the sandwich would personally identify seshas to mist and was thinking it would be weird for her to not have said anything sooner, but after thinking for literally one second that doesn’t make sense because the sandwich was probably anonymous.


----------



## Novae

removing strong townreads:
Keldeo
storm
kyeugh
Vipera Magnifica
IndigoEmmy
kokorico
Trebek
tbh²
Butterfree
JackPK


----------



## Despicable Meme

current state of thread:


----------



## Zori

I think I have to go to dinner now and may not be back by EoD
I trust you guys to make an informed decision tbh


----------



## Novae

also I did eat the sandwich

so if I die misteriously at EoD blame seshas


----------



## kyeugh

Mist1422 said:


> removing strong townreads:
> Keldeo
> storm
> kyeugh
> Vipera Magnifica
> IndigoEmmy
> kokorico
> Trebek
> tbh²
> Butterfree
> JackPK


what is this tbh. is it literally just a list of people you aren’t strongly townreading or is it somehow ordered


----------



## Mawile

Vote History (let me know if I made any mistakes):
*Seshas voted kokorico (#192)
kyeugh voted kokorico (#234)*
Mist1422 voted Mawile (#313)
Seshas voted Mawile (#315)
Despicable Meme voted Mawile (#401)
storm voted Mawile (#409)
RedneckPhoenix voted RedneckPhoenix (#416)
RedneckPhoenix voted JackPK (#420)
*tbh^2 voted Seshas (#436)
RedneckPhoenix voted tbh^2 (#437)*
Despicable Meme voted Seshas (#550)
*JackPK voted Seshas (#601)*
Despicable Meme voted Hydreigon25 (#660)
*Despicable Meme voted Seshas (#670)
Trebek voted Seshas (#679)
Vipera Magnifica voted Seshas (#686)
kokorico voted Seshas (#737)
Mist1422 voted kokorico (#794)*

Vote Count:
Seshas (6), kokorico (3), tbh^2 (1)

*EoD is in 36 minutes.*


----------



## Novae

kyeugh said:


> Mist1422 said:
> 
> 
> 
> removing strong townreads:
> Keldeo
> storm
> kyeugh
> Vipera Magnifica
> IndigoEmmy
> kokorico
> Trebek
> tbh²
> Butterfree
> JackPK
> 
> 
> 
> what is this tbh. is it literally just a list of people you aren’t strongly townreading or is it somehow ordered
Click to expand...

I just copied the pinglist and deleted the people I'm not invested in yeeting without further info against them


----------



## Keldeo

Just checking, Mist, can you do anything with the sandwich? Like, is there an option to eat it or something. 



tbh² said:


> yeah i'm kind of concerned about the seshas wagon growth :'D but between seshas/koko i think we probably stay on seshas unless rari's/my imminent reread uncovers something suddenly


Agree tbh

I'm also almost less concerned about the wagon speed because I believe that Seshas has this sandwich role and so if they are mafia, that is probably a weaker role -> more bussable for da cred?


----------



## Novae

I already ate the sandwich

I don't think it did anything


----------



## qenya

Mist1422 said:


> misteriously


very nice tbh

To be clear, is the sandwich the same thing as the "anonymous message" you mentioned here?


----------



## Novae

hmm

emmy coming into thread asking "I'm not dead yet right" is...clearing? or at least a decent look

inb4 3p


----------



## Novae

kokorico said:


> Mist1422 said:
> 
> 
> 
> misteriously
> 
> 
> 
> very nice tbh
> 
> To be clear, is the sandwich the same thing as the "anonymous message" you mentioned here?
Click to expand...

it is not tbh!

the sandwich is just a sandwich


----------



## kyeugh

can’t believe panini is with us in spirit after all.


----------



## Vipera Magnifica

Mist1422 said:


> I already ate the sandwich
> 
> I don't think it did anything


inb4 you die at EoD


----------



## Novae

{Mist, RNP, [HMF]}
{Seshas, Emmy, Hydre}
{rest}


----------



## Despicable Meme

welp, this is difficult to draw a conclusion from. the sandwich itself seems genuine enough, but a) it's not exactly an instaclear; b) it doesn't exactly seem like a role town would miss; c) even if I did conclude that seshas is town, it's hard to decide what exactly to do about it at this point

I dunno, impromtpu jackpk counterwagon?


----------



## Novae

keldeoooooo

why should I townread you this game


----------



## tbh²

Despicable Meme said:


> I dunno, impromtpu jackpk counterwagon?


why
-m


----------



## Despicable Meme

I did say it was impromptu


----------



## Butterfree

Uuuugh I'm sorry I'm recovering from my second wisdom tooth extraction and I have no brains to think with. I read the last couple of pages but I'm not caught up. Can someone quickly summarize the situation so I can try to place a vaguely informed vote?


----------



## kyeugh

Despicable Meme said:


> I dunno, impromtpu jackpk counterwagon?


mm. i could go for it. i’m not sure i especially believe it but koko clearly isn’t going anywhere today and i’m reading jack lower than seshas, at least.


----------



## tbh²

yes. but. why jack over x other player


----------



## Vipera Magnifica

you know what, *Despicable Meme*


----------



## Vipera Magnifica

for reasons I will explain later


----------



## Butterfree

Like I gather Seshas just claimed fruit vendor and I guess the other main wagon is kokorico? What's the case on kokorico?


----------



## kyeugh

Vipera Magnifica said:


> you know what, *Despicable Meme*


 could do this too! what do you think of rnp then


----------



## Keldeo

Not really on board for Despicable Meme being wagoned, I think RNP is town and so they'll resolve by themselves this EOD. 



Mist1422 said:


> keldeoooooo
> 
> why should I townread you this game


I'm too cute to be mafia. 

idk, I've been here for like 4 hours. I think if I were mafia I'd probably have found something stronger to push? Right now I feel like I'm just kind of vibing.


----------



## Vipera Magnifica

kyeugh said:


> Vipera Magnifica said:
> 
> 
> 
> you know what, *Despicable Meme*
> 
> 
> 
> could do this too! what do you think of rnp then
Click to expand...

i think they're almost always aligned together


----------



## tbh²

given what koko said about hmf's posting (that e thought it was 'excellent' lol) i don't think we get a nice antialignment with them
also i really like hmf's recent longposting >: and i think rnp town for early claim + his annoyance with raritini tierlist
-m


----------



## Despicable Meme

tbh² said:


> yes. but. why jack over x other player


the name was just within reach


----------



## tbh²

also do not think we should vote hmf/rnp toDay bc of resolving claim
-m


----------



## Vipera Magnifica

Keldeo said:


> Not really on board for Despicable Meme being wagoned, I think RNP is town and so they'll resolve by themselves this EOD.


how will they resolve, exactly?


----------



## kyeugh

hmm, yeah, not really feeling the despicable meme thing then.


----------



## Keldeo

Vipera Magnifica said:


> Keldeo said:
> 
> 
> 
> Not really on board for Despicable Meme being wagoned, I think RNP is town and so they'll resolve by themselves this EOD.
> 
> 
> 
> how will they resolve, exactly?
Click to expand...

If RNP's town, RNP said because of his role they'll get modkilled if they don't claim mafia before EOD, right?


----------



## tbh²

Vipera Magnifica said:


> Keldeo said:
> 
> 
> 
> Not really on board for Despicable Meme being wagoned, I think RNP is town and so they'll resolve by themselves this EOD.
> 
> 
> 
> how will they resolve, exactly?
Click to expand...

RNP claimed to have forced hmf to truthfully claim in ~37, says that if hmf doesn't do so by EoD it'll result in modkill
so they're tied up enough that i don't want to spend d1 lynch on them
-m


----------



## tbh²

Keldeo said:


> If RNP's town, RNP said because of his role they'll get modkilled if they don't claim mafia before EOD, right?


uh, mafia?
-m


----------



## kyeugh

Keldeo said:


> Vipera Magnifica said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Keldeo said:
> 
> 
> 
> Not really on board for Despicable Meme being wagoned, I think RNP is town and so they'll resolve by themselves this EOD.
> 
> 
> 
> how will they resolve, exactly?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> If RNP's town, RNP said because of his role they'll get modkilled if they don't claim mafia before EOD, right?
Click to expand...

 meh, if dm is mafia then rnp probably is too, the whole thing was a bullshit gambit, and nothing will happen anyway.


----------



## Vipera Magnifica

Keldeo said:


> Vipera Magnifica said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Keldeo said:
> 
> 
> 
> Not really on board for Despicable Meme being wagoned, I think RNP is town and so they'll resolve by themselves this EOD.
> 
> 
> 
> how will they resolve, exactly?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> If RNP's town, RNP said because of his role they'll get modkilled if they don't claim mafia before EOD, right?
Click to expand...

well... yeah... that's why they have to be either v/v or w/w

i don't see how that resolves though


----------



## Butterfree

Vipera Magnifica said:


> for reasons I will explain later


How firm are these reasons? Hunch or something strongly mechanical?


----------



## Keldeo

Oh I think I dropped a clause, if RNP's town and DM is mafia. 



kyeugh said:


> Keldeo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Vipera Magnifica said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Keldeo said:
> 
> 
> 
> Not really on board for Despicable Meme being wagoned, I think RNP is town and so they'll resolve by themselves this EOD.
> 
> 
> 
> how will they resolve, exactly?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> If RNP's town, RNP said because of his role they'll get modkilled if they don't claim mafia before EOD, right?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> meh, if dm is mafia then rnp probably is too, the whole thing was a bullshit gambit, and nothing will happen anyway.
Click to expand...

Yeah that's what I think too, hence "if RNP is town", which I think he is.


----------



## tbh²

tbh² said:


> Keldeo said:
> 
> 
> 
> If RNP's town, RNP said because of his role they'll get modkilled if they don't claim mafia before EOD, right?
> 
> 
> 
> uh, mafia?
> -m
Click to expand...

lol nvm thinking hard


----------



## tbh²

tbh² said:


> lol nvm thinking hard


(thought it was tmi)


----------



## Keldeo

Vipera Magnifica said:


> well... yeah... that's why they have to be either v/v or w/w
> 
> i don't see how that resolves though


Ah I'm sorry, I think that we think the same thing then but we're talking past each other. I think RNP claiming early is fairly towny for him, so I think it's more likely to be v/v. What makes you think that it's more likely w/w?


----------



## Vipera Magnifica

tbh² said:


> Vipera Magnifica said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Keldeo said:
> 
> 
> 
> Not really on board for Despicable Meme being wagoned, I think RNP is town and so they'll resolve by themselves this EOD.
> 
> 
> 
> how will they resolve, exactly?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> RNP claimed to have forced hmf to truthfully claim in ~37, says that if hmf doesn't do so by EoD it'll result in modkill
> so they're tied up enough that i don't want to spend d1 lynch on them
> -m
Click to expand...

i don't understand how this... resolves anything though?

if they're w/w and the role is completely made up it doesn't prove anything, and if they're v/v well then yeah nothing is going to happen

if we yeet dm and they flip scum, we have another scum, and if they flip town we have a virtually cleared town in rnp


----------



## Keldeo

Well, if this is all a gambit, it makes sense that he'd want to claim early anyway, I guess? idk I'm just not really feeling it.


----------



## tbh²

Keldeo said:


> Let's talk about that logic then, rari, because it is what I genuinely believe in, and I'd like to bridge that gap if we can. What doesn't make sense to you about both mafia and town wanting to hunt cultists, if the mafia win condition is indeed something like "eliminate all threats to mafia"? You can say that that's a big "if" considering the town win condition, I wouldn't dispute that.


my point is precisely that that is a very big if considering the town win condition.
also i figured i wouldn’t be able to catch up before EoD, so consider that i’m ignorant about 31-38
- rari


----------



## kyeugh

Keldeo said:


> Oh I think I dropped a clause, if RNP's town and DM is mafia.
> 
> 
> 
> kyeugh said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Keldeo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Vipera Magnifica said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Keldeo said:
> 
> 
> 
> Not really on board for Despicable Meme being wagoned, I think RNP is town and so they'll resolve by themselves this EOD.
> 
> 
> 
> how will they resolve, exactly?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> If RNP's town, RNP said because of his role they'll get modkilled if they don't claim mafia before EOD, right?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> meh, if dm is mafia then rnp probably is too, the whole thing was a bullshit gambit, and nothing will happen anyway.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Yeah that's what I think too, hence "if RNP is town", which I think he is.
Click to expand...

i’d agree, but i don’t agree that it’ll resolve itself since we don’t KNOW rnp is town.

i think the odds that we mislynch today are good no matter what. if we go for dm and it’s a mislynch, it’ll at least clear rnp; if they flip mafia, it’ll clear rnp. it does seem like a decent infolynch at least. it would clear seshas too imo. 
however i’m not sure how i feel about an info lynch myself, not really advocating this atm. just thinking aloud.


----------



## Trebek

Vipera Magnifica said:


> tbh² said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Vipera Magnifica said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Keldeo said:
> 
> 
> 
> Not really on board for Despicable Meme being wagoned, I think RNP is town and so they'll resolve by themselves this EOD.
> 
> 
> 
> how will they resolve, exactly?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> RNP claimed to have forced hmf to truthfully claim in ~37, says that if hmf doesn't do so by EoD it'll result in modkill
> so they're tied up enough that i don't want to spend d1 lynch on them
> -m
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> i don't understand how this... resolves anything though?
> 
> if they're w/w and the role is completely made up it doesn't prove anything, and if they're v/v well then yeah nothing is going to happen
> 
> if we yeet dm and they flip scum, we have another scum, and if they flip town we have a virtually cleared town in rnp
Click to expand...

i think theyre considering the edge case where RNP is town and HMF is scum, in which case voting HMF rn is sorta a wasted yeet?


----------



## qenya

Vipera Magnifica said:


> tbh² said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Vipera Magnifica said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Keldeo said:
> 
> 
> 
> Not really on board for Despicable Meme being wagoned, I think RNP is town and so they'll resolve by themselves this EOD.
> 
> 
> 
> how will they resolve, exactly?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> RNP claimed to have forced hmf to truthfully claim in ~37, says that if hmf doesn't do so by EoD it'll result in modkill
> so they're tied up enough that i don't want to spend d1 lynch on them
> -m
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> i don't understand how this... resolves anything though?
> 
> if they're w/w and the role is completely made up it doesn't prove anything, and if they're v/v well then yeah nothing is going to happen
> 
> if we yeet dm and they flip scum, we have another scum, and if they flip town we have a virtually cleared town in rnp
Click to expand...

i think the point is that if EoD passes without H&M&F saying anything else weird, it eliminates the v/w possibility, which for a couple of people has been a concern (personally I think it's unlikely but it's technically possible)


----------



## Hydreigon25

Trebek & JackPK anything to say before EoD ?​


----------



## kyeugh

i just had a thought. let me get to my computer for MAXIMUM TYPING.


----------



## Hydreigon25

i mean about if you're sided with the town ?


----------



## tbh²

quick in da moment note about how hydreigon pushing onward with their reads while not engaging with me is kind of >:( for me right now
-m


----------



## Keldeo

Oh, I see... I guess I'd just not really like to go for an infolynch in general, particularly when I'm figuring both of them are likelier town anyway so it wouldn't actually give me much info beyond strengthening that belief.


----------



## Butterfree

Hydreigon25 said:


> Trebek & JackPK anything to say before EoD ?


Is there a reason you seem kind of preoccupied with them? (Maybe there is, I haven't read everything)


----------



## Trebek

tbh² said:


> quick in da moment note about how hydreigon pushing onward with their reads while not engaging with me is kind of >:( for me right now
> -m


i was about to say the same thing tbh


----------



## tbh²

wait, did hydreigon just give up on times new roman altogether?
- rari


----------



## Despicable Meme

so like, I'm not inherently opposed to being science-lynched, but I don't think it yields remotely as much as some of y'all are assuming it yields. like, you'll get RNP clear and... do exactly what with that


----------



## JackPK

Hydreigon25 said:


> This might not get resolved by EoD1
> but what does everyone think about these 3
> 
> JackPK
> 
> Ysabel
> 
> Trebek
> 
> 
> I'm kinda thinking at least 1 might be worth looking into if not all 3 by N1/D2


omg did you literally just pick out the three of us bc [redacted] in 2R1B lmaoooooooo

rand in one game has no effect on rand in another game friend



Mist1422 said:


> hmm
> 
> emmy coming into thread asking "I'm not dead yet right" is...clearing? or at least a decent look
> 
> inb4 3p


I think that's just how Emmy posts lately, I don't think it's an indicator IMO


----------



## Keldeo

Keldeo said:


> Oh, I see... I guess I'd just not really like to go for an infolynch in general, particularly when I'm figuring both of them are likelier town anyway so it wouldn't actually give me much info beyond strengthening that belief.


Big lol keldeo moment if RNP/HMF are actually w/w tbh, cause I do agree with Skylar that I think that makes Seshas v.


----------



## Vipera Magnifica

the more i think about it the more it really just seems like a gambit to me, and i wouldn't put it past those two to do something risky like that

also i may or may not have tenuous info related to my role that would make sense if dp was scum


----------



## Vipera Magnifica

Vipera Magnifica said:


> the more i think about it the more it really just seems like a gambit to me, and i wouldn't put it past those two to do something risky like that
> 
> also i may or may not have tenuous info related to my role that would make sense if dp was scum


**dm*


----------



## tbh²

@Hydreigon25 where are you as far as the two main wagons? and can you please answer my question about your Vipera read right now
-m


----------



## tbh²

tbh² said:


> and can you please answer my question about your Vipera read right now


um, this sounded demanding. not answer right now, as in your read atm


----------



## Vipera Magnifica

tbh² said:


> tbh² said:
> 
> 
> 
> and can you please answer my question about your Vipera read right now
> 
> 
> 
> um, this sounded demanding. not answer right now, as in your read atm
Click to expand...

yes, and btw the lie detector is very much real and still on you so tell the truth


----------



## tbh²

Vipera Magnifica said:


> the more i think about it the more it really just seems like a gambit to me, and i wouldn't put it past those two to do something risky like that
> 
> also i may or may not have tenuous info related to my role that would make sense if dp was scum


why did you wait until now to say that if you had role info that made you 
-m


----------



## Butterfree

Still kind of waiting for someone to explain kokorico to me? I'd rather not vote there _just_ sheeping off the fact it's a wagon.


----------



## Vipera Magnifica

can you imagine if the lie detector _was_ real and resulted in a modkill if the target lies and i've been pulling a RNP Super Terrorist this whole time


----------



## kyeugh

laptop: booted
headphones: on
thom yorke: playing (for some reason)
vodka: consumed
yep, it's realposting time


----------



## Hydreigon25

i mean if Trebek is town he'' have nothing to hide, & same with JackPK


----------



## Butterfree

Vipera Magnifica said:


> tbh² said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> tbh² said:
> 
> 
> 
> and can you please answer my question about your Vipera read right now
> 
> 
> 
> um, this sounded demanding. not answer right now, as in your read atm
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> yes, and btw the lie detector is very much real and still on you so tell the truth
Click to expand...

What does this mean, what lie detector, please help me understand what's going on


----------



## kyeugh

Butterfree said:


> Vipera Magnifica said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> tbh² said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> tbh² said:
> 
> 
> 
> and can you please answer my question about your Vipera read right now
> 
> 
> 
> um, this sounded demanding. not answer right now, as in your read atm
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> yes, and btw the lie detector is very much real and still on you so tell the truth
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> What does this mean, what lie detector, please help me understand what's going on
Click to expand...

 vm pretended he had a lie detector object that he put on hydreigon to interrogate him about whether he was mafia or cult aligned (both no)


----------



## tbh²

Butterfree said:


> What does this mean, what lie detector, please help me understand what's going on


omfg bfree i'm so sorry
i've been trying to find posts of people talking about koko for you but i keep getting lost
-m


----------



## Trebek

Hydreigon25 said:


> i mean if Trebek is town he'' have nothing to hide, & same with JackPK


i mean i dont, but i also dont really understand what's being requested of me? like, i've talked about my thought process and why my vote is where it is? and i also don't get why you are refusing to engage with people who are asking you questions?


----------



## tbh²

@Butterfree this quote and some talk surrounding it (i think isoing skylar talking about koko might help)


kyeugh said:


> i do disagree those seshas posts are scummy at all, but the main reason i'm townreading seshas right now is because i don't think she's w/w with koko, and i believe koko is w. my logic here is a bit circular; initially my read on em was just sort of nebulous and tone-based, and i was getting vaguely disingenuous vibes from most of the Points e was making, but i've also disliked their reaction to the votes on em—eir lack of engagement there feels to me like a wolf trying not to look like they're panicking about a few votes. then, as we approach eod, i'm increasingly convinced these wagons are w/v, which sort of strengthens my belief here.


----------



## Despicable Meme

Vipera Magnifica said:


> the more i think about it the more it really just seems like a gambit to me, and i wouldn't put it past those two to do something risky like that
> 
> also i may or may not have tenuous info related to my role that would make sense if dp was scum


... and you hopped on a wagon that I was hardpushing anyway???

like I am sincerely baffled


----------



## Butterfree

Honestly I can kind of vibe with solving *Despicable Meme*? I remember at the beginning of the day kind of feeling like MF's posting resembled TV Tropes mafia? But uuuugh


----------



## Vipera Magnifica

tbh² said:


> Vipera Magnifica said:
> 
> 
> 
> the more i think about it the more it really just seems like a gambit to me, and i wouldn't put it past those two to do something risky like that
> 
> also i may or may not have tenuous info related to my role that would make sense if dp was scum
> 
> 
> 
> why did you wait until now to say that if you had role info that made you
> -m
Click to expand...

because i only just realized that what i know _might_ implicate h&m&f

it's not like, a cop-check


----------



## JackPK

Hydreigon25 said:


> i mean if Trebek is town he'' have nothing to hide, & same with JackPK


uh, first of all, that's just factually not true. in the early game, town absolutely has every reason to hide certain things to ensure mafia don't know about those things until town has enough time to gather enough info

bruh, is there any information you _actually _want out of me or are you just throwing shade for the fun of throwing shade?


----------



## tbh²

god ten minutes left and i don't feel confident about anyone haha, i just know about people who i Don't want to lynch
-m


----------



## tbh²

i have skimmed over the pages i didn’t read and did a votecount
5 - Seshas - koko, hmf, tbh², jack, trebek
3 - kokorico - seshas, qva, mist
2 - H&M&F - vm, bfree
1 - tbh² - rnp

- rari


----------



## kyeugh

ok, thinking about this rnp/dm situation a bit, i actually don't think it's going to get resolved on its own so it does seem like a good thing to use a lynch for imo, especially in the absence of actual leads to follow.  my understanding of it is as follows:

rnp/dm v/v - possible, they're both telling the truth.  if we lynch one, all their flip will confirm is the other.
rnp/dm w/w - same as above, except that they are both lying.  in this case, i think seshas is probably clear.
rnp/dm v/w - impossible.  if rnp is telling the truth and they aren't collaborating, dm would have to admit they're scum.
rnp/dm w/v - possible, they're both telling the truth (except rnp is lying about their alignment, but nothing else).
in 2/3 of these possibilities, rnp is w; in just as many, dm is v, so i think i'd rather lynch rnp than dm here if we're headed in that direction.  i've been town-reading rnp because, well, same reason as the rest of you i guess, but tbf the silencer thing or whatever does seem more like a scum role than a town one, so... ????  idk.  i'm not sure i really believe this, but resolving the rnp/dm thing isn't a bad way to go for the day i don't think, and if we're going to do that i think an rnp lynch is the way to do it.  let me know what you guys think.

also sorry in advance to keith if he's v because i mislynch him a lot but like, it's not a tone thing this time but rather an info one. i'm just trying to think this through to its logical end.


----------



## Vipera Magnifica

but like, hear me out... we get useful information about RNP's alignment even if it is a misyeet

and i don't think it will be a misyeet


----------



## Trebek

kyeugh said:


> rnp/dm v/w - impossible.  if rnp is telling the truth and they aren't collaborating, dm would have to admit they're scum.


i think the issue here is that rnp admitted that this could be the case: dm could feasibly just be waiting until the last possible minute before EoD to tell the truth


----------



## Novae

WHY are we yeeting despicable meme


----------



## kyeugh

i'm vibing personally.  i don't think a seshas lynch will give us that much useful information to go on unless she flips wolf (doubt), and koko isn't getting yeeted today.  at least this way we get a clear on a living player at minimum.  *redneckphoenix* sorry bro don't flame i feel guilty


----------



## Keldeo

Super ?_? at all this, I almost want to say it anti-aligns the [VM-Hydrei] and [MF-RNP] pairs, which I think are aligned within themselves (unless DM posts the copypasta at :59 or something)? 

I've kind of swung back to thinking Seshas is more likely to flip town with how like... not focused on them this EOD has been...? @Seshas do you have legacy reads or anything you want to share?


----------



## Novae

DO NOT VOTE MY TOP TOWNREAD


----------



## Trebek

kyeugh said:


> rnp/dm v/v - possible, they're both telling the truth.  if we lynch one, all their flip will confirm is the other.
> rnp/dm w/v - possible, they're both telling the truth (except rnp is lying about their alignment, but nothing else).


also, this seems like a contradiction? or at the very least, this means that misyeeting dm doesnt actually solve anything


----------



## Keldeo

Mist1422 said:


> DO NOT VOTE MY TOP TOWNREAD


Why are they your top townread?


----------



## tbh²

kyeugh said:


> rnp/dm w/v - possible, they're both telling the truth (except rnp is lying about their alignment, but nothing else).


no tbh
why would rnp, given that the role is indeed what he says it is, use it on a townie
if the role is real i think rnp is just town tbqh
-m


----------



## kyeugh

Trebek said:


> kyeugh said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rnp/dm v/w - impossible.  if rnp is telling the truth and they aren't collaborating, dm would have to admit they're scum.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> i think the issue here is that rnp admitted that this could be the case: dm could feasibly just be waiting until the last possible minute before EoD to tell the truth
Click to expand...

yeah, maybe.  if we lynch rnp and he flips town we can be pretty sure dm is town; otherwise dm will claim mafia in the thread and vig can shoot them.
only hole in this as far as i can tell is that if we lynch rnp, he flips town, and dm ends up looking town as a result, mafia might shoot dm overnight and we're left at square one.


----------



## Novae

Keldeo said:


> Mist1422 said:
> 
> 
> 
> DO NOT VOTE MY TOP TOWNREAD
> 
> 
> 
> Why are they your top townread?
Click to expand...

-role is never a wolf role
-role has been confirmed by herbe
-if they're w/w with DM they're tied together in a way that's really weird to pull D1


----------



## kyeugh

tbh² said:


> kyeugh said:
> 
> 
> 
> rnp/dm w/v - possible, they're both telling the truth (except rnp is lying about their alignment, but nothing else).
> 
> 
> 
> no tbh
> why would rnp, given that the role is indeed what he says it is, use it on a townie
> if the role is real i think rnp is just town tbqh
> -m
Click to expand...

 public confirmation from a townie of his role?


----------



## kyeugh

i disagree that rnp is necessarily town if he's telling the truth, because his actual role (not the one-shot part) is NAI, but more useful to scum than town.


----------



## tbh²

kyeugh said:


> public confirmation from a townie of his role?


seems WAY easier to just assume that rnp is lying in that case
if the role is real, it isn't on a wolf. i think that that's ez
and i don't want to base wagons in a possibly-clarifying post from hmf (mafia claim) that may as well come with 15 sec left in the day
-m


----------



## Novae

kyeugh said:


> i disagree that rnp is necessarily town if he's telling the truth, because his actual role (not the one-shot part) is NAI, but more useful to scum than town.


how is a public check ever a wolf role


----------



## Trebek

kyeugh said:


> i disagree that rnp is necessarily town if he's telling the truth, because his actual role (not the one-shot part) is NAI, but more useful to scum than town.


also for the record, we have no way of knowing that one half of his role being true guarantees that the other half is true without exposing a watcher


----------



## Keldeo

idt "force target to claim their role truthfully or die" is a mafia role, yeah


----------



## tbh²

this is weird vibes
why would a thread alignment check be >rand wolf when it would give town a confirmed player?!
-m


----------



## Zori

meow?


----------



## qenya

kyeugh said:


> i disagree that rnp is necessarily town if he's telling the truth, because his actual role (not the one-shot part) is NAI, but more useful to scum than town.


but the one-shot part is actively _harmful_ to scum. it essentially converts a townie into an innocent child

why would scum have that role, and if they had it, why would they use it


----------



## Trebek

tbh² said:


> this is weird vibes
> why would a thread alignment check be >rand wolf when it would give town a confirmed player?!
> -m


pocketing and/or bastard?

ftr i actually think i agree with you on this one, just thinking about possibilities


----------



## Butterfree

Okay yeeting *RedneckPhoenix* does make more sense


----------



## Zori

Mist1422 said:


> kyeugh said:
> 
> 
> 
> i disagree that rnp is necessarily town if he's telling the truth, because his actual role (not the one-shot part) is NAI, but more useful to scum than town.
> 
> 
> 
> how is a public check ever a wolf role
Click to expand...

for the some reason a public gunsmith is?


----------



## JackPK

Mist1422 said:


> kyeugh said:
> 
> 
> 
> i disagree that rnp is necessarily town if he's telling the truth, because his actual role (not the one-shot part) is NAI, but more useful to scum than town.
> 
> 
> 
> how is a public check ever a wolf role
Click to expand...

his one-shot part of his role isn't even necessarily guaranteed to be a public check, it could easily be "send message via GM" that hypowolf!rnp could've used to trick herbem&f


----------



## Novae

Seshas said:


> Mist1422 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> kyeugh said:
> 
> 
> 
> i disagree that rnp is necessarily town if he's telling the truth, because his actual role (not the one-shot part) is NAI, but more useful to scum than town.
> 
> 
> 
> how is a public check ever a wolf role
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> for the some reason a public gunsmith is?
Click to expand...

when has a public gunsmith been run


----------



## Zori

(what is happening by the way)


----------



## Vipera Magnifica

I don't know if a Seshas yeet right now is the best idea, so unless we hop on board with Despicable Meme that's what will happen? Seshas can maybe give a sandwich to tbh or Hydreigon or someone else who is very likely town


----------



## Keldeo

JackPK said:


> Mist1422 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> kyeugh said:
> 
> 
> 
> i disagree that rnp is necessarily town if he's telling the truth, because his actual role (not the one-shot part) is NAI, but more useful to scum than town.
> 
> 
> 
> how is a public check ever a wolf role
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> his one-shot part of his role isn't even necessarily guaranteed to be a public check, it could easily be "send message via GM" that hypowolf!rnp could've used to trick herbem&f
Click to expand...

Oh god ahah.


----------



## JackPK

JackPK said:


> Mist1422 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> kyeugh said:
> 
> 
> 
> i disagree that rnp is necessarily town if he's telling the truth, because his actual role (not the one-shot part) is NAI, but more useful to scum than town.
> 
> 
> 
> how is a public check ever a wolf role
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> his one-shot part of his role isn't even necessarily guaranteed to be a public check, it could easily be "send message via GM" that hypowolf!rnp could've used to trick herbem&f
Click to expand...

nvm I gave it a second thought and I was underthinking this


----------



## Butterfree

I read through some of skylar's posts on kokorico and can't quite agree largely because... they were about the cult speculation, which I did read, and I honestly kind of agreed with koko there and was surprised by how forcefully e was pushed back against?


----------



## kyeugh

Mist1422 said:


> kyeugh said:
> 
> 
> 
> i disagree that rnp is necessarily town if he's telling the truth, because his actual role (not the one-shot part) is NAI, but more useful to scum than town.
> 
> 
> 
> how is a public check ever a wolf role
Click to expand...

 i'm... not sure why it wouldn't be?  what


tbh² said:


> this is weird vibes
> why would a thread alignment check be >rand wolf when it would give town a confirmed player?!
> -m


because it's makes people feel the exact way you do now, and shenanigans.  this kind of thinking is why no one wanted to consider fishing brothers could be scum in tvt.  i'm personally not interested in assuming anyone is town purely by virtue of "their role LOOKS town" unless it's literally something like cop, because it's seeming increasingly likely to me that this is a bastard game anyway.


----------



## Zori

meow


----------



## tbh²

seshas v, she's still trying to solve i think?!
*unvote* and maybe i'll figure out where to go in a min


----------



## Vipera Magnifica

ah well i tried


----------



## Trebek

do we have a min uhhhh

i think im staying where i am bc gut says aaa


----------



## Novae

weh


----------



## Keldeo

I guess yeah I shouldn't be putting so much into "it seems town" because shenanigans but like

Ugh idk


----------



## Keldeo

Trebek said:


> gut says aaa


Honestly extremely same


----------



## kyeugh

np if it's too late to do this but meh, if not gonna go back to *kokorico*.


----------



## tbh²

tbh² said:


> seshas v, she's still trying to solve i think?!
> *unvote* and maybe i'll figure out where to go in a min


if i even have time
urk
i thought her public gunsmith post felt like town trying to make sense of spec even w impending lynch but now rari and i are flailing 
-m


----------



## Mawile

*Day 1 is now over. Any votes placed after this post will not be counted. Vote history+count coming shortly.*


----------



## tbh²

*seshas* fuck it
- rari


----------



## tbh²

FUCK


----------



## Keldeo

tbh² said:


> i thought her public gunsmith post felt like town trying to make sense of spec even w impending lynch but now rari and i are flailing


Yeeeeah tbh

Sorry Seshas.


----------



## Hydreigon25

*kokorico*


----------



## Despicable Meme

welp, I hope the record shows I was going to post _something_

I did not figure out what until it was too late tho


----------



## qenya

btw peeps

go decide on your 2r1b hostage exchange


----------



## tbh²

Hydreigon25 said:


> *kokorico*


y’know that the day ended right
- rari


----------



## Despicable Meme

tbh² said:


> Hydreigon25 said:
> 
> 
> 
> *kokorico*
> 
> 
> 
> y’know that the day ended right
> - rari
Click to expand...

do _you_ know-


----------



## Mawile

Vote History (all non-valid/overwritten votes crossed out):
*Seshas voted kokorico (#192)*
kyeugh voted kokorico (#234)
Mist1422 voted Mawile (#313)
Seshas voted Mawile (#315)
Despicable Meme voted Mawile (#401)
storm voted Mawile (#409)
RedneckPhoenix voted RedneckPhoenix (#416)
RedneckPhoenix voted JackPK (#420)
tbh^2 voted Seshas (#436)
*RedneckPhoenix voted tbh^2 (#437)*
Despicable Meme voted Seshas (#550)
*JackPK voted Seshas (#601)*
Despicable Meme voted Hydreigon25 (#660)
*Despicable Meme voted Seshas (#670)
Trebek voted Seshas (#679)*
Vipera Magnifica voted Seshas (#686)
*kokorico voted Seshas (#737)
Mist1422 voted kokorico (#794)
Vipera Magnifica voted Despicable Meme (#819)*
Butterfree voted Despicable Meme (#873)
kyeugh voted RedneckPhoenix (#882)
*Butterfree voted RedneckPhoenix (#900)
tbh^2 unvoted (#911)
kyeugh voted kokorico (#917)

Vote Count:*
Seshas (4): JackPK, Despicable Meme, Trebek, kokorico
kokorico (3): Seshas, Mist1422, kyeugh
Despicable Meme (1): Vipera Magnifica
RedneckPhoenix (1): Butterfree
tbh^2 (1): RedneckPhoenix

If your most recent vote is incorrect, *PM me in the next 15 minutes*.


----------



## Hydreigon25

well i guess I couldn't vote D1


----------



## Mawile

*End of Day 1*

The town comes together after a long night of nobody dying. Much debate occurs over the potential existence of a cult lurking in the town, but nobody has any truly conclusive evidence.

The debate continues over the full course of the day, and eventually a few groups of voters are formed. One group of people is exceptionally and vocally suspicious of the espurr Seshas, who can do little more than meow by the end of the day. The other main group of people is suspicious of the local chicken kokorico, but ultimately the town determines that they are ever-so-slightly more suspicious of poor Seshas.

The town unceremonously rifles through Seshas' pockets for a key to her house, before hoisting her up on their shoulders and tossing her straight into the Hell Pit. Her meows grow fainter and fainter, before a small _splash_ is heard at the bottom.

One of the townspeople unlocks her house using the small golden key, revealing a plethora of ...burned and broken stuff? She must have been trying to cover her tracks. Almost everything on paper was burned, her cell phone smashed, and her computer's SSD gone.

What she forgot to burn at the last second, though, was a business card for the local Subway, with a note scribbled on the back: "Use the thumbprint scanner behind the framed poster to get into the mafia lounge room."

*Seshas is dead. She was mafia.
Night 1 begins now, and will last 24 hours, until 5pm Pacific on July 23rd/midnight UTC on July 24th.*


----------



## Despicable Meme




----------



## Mawile

*DAY 2*​
The sun slowly rises again over the quiet little town. As per usual, some people wake up earlier than others, and they slowly gather in the main square. A small sign featuring Seshas' face crossed out with a bright red X is hammered into the ground nearby. They quietly whisper among themselves about the events of yesterday, and how the first person to die in the town just happened to be someone hoping for their destruction.

Meanwhile, the mayor gazes proudly into the Hell Pit. Someone walks up to him and tries to ask how he managed to dig a hole that deep so quickly, and the mayor responds, "technology is incredible." That's, uh, not really a response, but okay. The mayor also goes on for a while about a "vote-counting script" or something like that, but nobody really listens and it doesn't really matter to the townspeople.

The townspeople begin to get antsy as one of their own doesn't show up. The mayor does a head count and figures out that, indeed, somebody is missing. Trebek isn't present.

The townspeople search his car first, and didn't find him there, but somebody pockets some spare change that he had in the cup holder. Someone busts open his door, and the townspeople rush to find him, hoping for the best but expecting the worst.

Upstairs, a scream rings out. More people rush upstairs, only to find his body practically torn to shreds. Knowing they've found him dead, people inspect the rest of his belongings, and nothing incriminating comes up.

*Day 2 has begun. Trebek has died. He was not mafia.
Day 2 will end in 48 hours, at 5pm Pacific on July 25th and midnight UTC on July 26th.*



Spoiler: summary



N0 - Nobody died.
D1 - Seshas has died. She was mafia.
N1 - Trebek has died. He was not mafia.





Spoiler: pings



@Mist1422
@Keldeo
@Despicable Meme
@storm
@kyeugh
@Vipera Magnifica
@IndigoEmmy
@kokorico
@Trebek
@tbh²
@Butterfree
@JackPK
@RedneckPhoenix
@Seshas
@Hydreigon25


----------



## JackPK

prewritten longpost analyzing seshas interactions, apologies in advance if and when any part of this becomes irrelevant due to kills announced at the start of the Day



Spoiler: Seshas' readlists



prefacing this to say when I was scum in Tarot I went out of my way to pepper my scummates at random points throughout my readlists, so I don't necessarily think there's any value in looking at who's grouped together as high TRs here. still, collecting them for reference's sake



Seshas said:


> Wooloo:
> [RedneckPhoenix/Despicable Meme]
> 
> Vibing:
> [tbh²] (note: aaaaaaaaaaa)
> [Trebek/Hydreigon]
> [kokorico/JackPK]
> 
> Ech:
> [Everyone else probably}





Seshas said:


> tbh² said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Seshas said:
> 
> 
> 
> Vibing:
> [tbh²] (note: aaaaaaaaaaa)
> [_Trebek_/Hydreigon]
> 
> 
> 
> i thought you were reading him as cultist or something?
> and is wooloo tier like, extra vibing, or is it just about you thinking that rnp/hmf are aligned
> -m
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I'm reading Trebek as cultist but I don't think he's a wolf pending some mechanics working the way I think they do
> Wooloo tier is: I townread these and I'm moderately confident
> I have an aligned read on RNP/HMF and HMF has been moderately towny thus far
Click to expand...




Seshas said:


> [Trebek] - Cool
> 
> [kyeugh/Hydreigon25] - Wooloo
> [Despicable Meme/RedneckPhoenix]
> 
> [tbh²] - Weh
> [Mist1422/JackPK]
> 
> [Butterfree/storm] - Noot
> [Keldeo/Vipera Magnifica/IndigoEmmy]
> [kokorico]








Spoiler: other stuff






Seshas said:


> I wouldn't go too deep into the wolf tracker/watcher mechspec
> sometimes hosts (read: me) put roles like that in just to be pure negative utility


just noting this for now, idk whether it's worth thinking hard about or not



Seshas said:


> what if I harclaimed wolf right now, but said that you shouldn't vote me because it will give more time for the cult to grow.





Seshas said:


> I guess I gotta retract that wolfclaim then


lmao the openwolfing



Seshas said:


> storm said:
> 
> 
> 
> (also sorry for tarot mafia, seshas! it was very much a guilty victory. being scum was _hard_)
> 
> 
> 
> This is me to every townie in every wolf game tbh
Click to expand...





ok so for my analysis of Seshas' interactions with other folks, let me structure it like a tier list

*towncore*



Spoiler: tbh2 interactions






Seshas said:


> the past 2 games I talked to mewt in they were wolf
> the past 1 game I talked to rari in they were wolf
> so now I'm scared of pocket


NAI but leaving it here for amusement



tbh² said:


> kyeugh said:
> 
> 
> 
> can you guys explain your seshas read?
> 
> 
> 
> our seshas reads are very similar – so similar, in fact, that i am going to quote what mewt sent me about her seshasthoughts and work from there:
> 
> 
> 
> mewtini said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> on seshas, i'm oscillating a bit because there are a few posts of hers that i liked/struck me as being vaguely towny / being in her tarot meta ... like her starting out being afraid to read us/getting pocketed by us in 23 but later getting off of the hedge in 245, somewhat. also her voicing that she was afraid of getting storm pocketed again in 154 felt good in the moment
> 
> on the other hand i think that that's all pretty much fakeable as any alignment (especially for seshas, who iirc has said that she channels town as wolf, and is also just a good enough player to make any of these comments 'offhand'). it bothers me a lot that she seems so handwavey about the cultspec - i think it's one thing to feel like the cult thing is a hoax (mist said as much and i actually liked that comment) but it's another to acknowledge it and be like, shrug, when aiui it would actually be worthwhile to at least /think/ about it if you are town and find it a possibility. i think it's not really a great look for seshas to be so nonchalant about it, especially when mafia likely have less reason to care about a cult since the existence of such would fuck up the town wincon and when mafia passively kill cult recruiters. relatedly, her attitude wrt trebek kind of threw me a bit as well (in that she was actively reading him as a cultist, but was all but happy to let him vibe, before later actively TRing him)
> 
> also i was initially fine with her vote on koko because i think tcodf could stand to start the voting phase a bit earlier, but on reread i'm like. kind of eh about it and think it was a potentially-agendaed vote. iirc koko wasn't really the only, or even the main, person pushing cultspec and seshas pointing out koko "rushing" a stance on things ... felt like seshas rushing a stance/vote in and of itself
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> besides everything that mewt addressed above, there are also a couple of posts of hers that can definitely be read as LAMIST; the first being 21, where she talks about randing town five times in a row (the fifth would be this present game – this is admittedly a bit of a weak evidence, but it adds to the picture) and the second being 305, quoted here fully:
> 
> 
> Seshas said:
> 
> 
> 
> I am immune to any actions that would cause me to be unable to target any players on the same team as me, which would be >rand a mafia role because the vast majority of mafia roles don't benefit from targeting their teammates
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> if it is not clear, our point is that making a post solely to talk about how wolfy one’s role is is nothing but LAMIST.
> 
> what i differ in my seshasread is that i don’t give much credit to the towntells that mewt pointed out in the first paragraph because i believe that wouldn’t be hard for seshas to fake – the tier title was very accurate this time when i named it _marked for deletion_. still, we both agree that *seshas* is a very decent counterwagon and a good place to put a bit of pressure on at this time of the Day.
> 
> - rari
Click to expand...

for context, this was the very first vote on Seshas. I like this a lot and I think it looks very good for tbh2. this doesn't feel like a wolf-distancing-from-wolf to me at all. this clinches tbh as part of my towncore



tbh² said:


> seshas v, she's still trying to solve i think?!
> *unvote* and maybe i'll figure out where to go in a min





tbh² said:


> *seshas* fuck it
> - rari


(that last one made it in just after the cutoff)

these seem fine, like villager having last-minute doubts/regrets. honestly in character





Spoiler: kokorico interactions






kokorico said:


> Seshas said:
> 
> 
> 
> tfw you have a passive that would would be great if your role wasn't total crap
> 
> 
> 
> hmm, from this I can I infer you also have a bizarre non-action trait in addition to your "normal" role?
Click to expand...




kokorico said:


> tbh² said:
> 
> 
> 
> maybe so but at least imo ... i don't really see the benefit in talking _too_ much about PRs, shenanigans or not, tbqh
> -m
> 
> 
> 
> eh, fair enough. tbh I wasn't planning to say anything in the first place, just got overexcited and jumped on what seshas said in a pattern-matchy sort of way!
> 
> (though I see that since I started replying to this everyone else has started talking about PRs too, so, uh. sorry.)
Click to expand...

this is probably not too much of an indicator but feels somewhat towny to me; I can more easily believe koko as townie eagerly jumping aboard a pattern-matching train, rather than koko as scum working together with Seshas to try to set up a pattern to bait town to reply (especially when this is not a pattern that would be helpful for scum to find out whether it exists among town)



Seshas said:


> koko and jack are in the tier where I'm vibing with them but I don't know why so probably actually more likely to be wolves
> citation: the tier containing literally [Trebek/Jack/Stryke] in Tarot


and this post just oozes "trying to seed doubt in town's mind so they don't trust their townreads" lmao



Seshas said:


> *kokorico*





Seshas said:


> I feel like he's rushing a stance on the cultist thing for the purpose of taking one, instead of proceeding in good faith


and I think this pretty close to clears koko? I don't see a world in which Seshas/koko are w/w and do a wolf theater fight that ends with both of them being the primary wagons of the day

(this is also the first vote of the game, and I don't generally believe wolves are likely to start the game's first wagon on fellow wolves and leave their vote there for the entire day)



Seshas said:


> I'm going to back of from koko because I found myself unable to reevaluate properly which is probably a bad thing





Seshas said:


> not as in I'm going to stop wolf-reading him but as in I'm going to stop mentally pointing out why every post he makes is wolfy because it's probably wrong


feels to me like backpedaling to avoid getting sussed if koko dies and flips inno, but still trying to seed doubt in town's mind



kokorico said:


> as far as the votes go, to nobody's surprise, I guess I'm going for *Seshas*
> 
> the discussion about her cult opinions went a bit over my head, but I get the gist where mewt and H&M&F are coming from and I still don't think we ever found out why she wanted to vote for me in the first place. plus it's not as if there are any other wagons anyway.
> 
> i am probably around until eod if anyone has questions for me.


at this point the wagons were 5 Seshas-2 koko-1 tbh so this is not really indicative one way or the other, just including it for posterity





Spoiler: Despicable Meme(/RNP) interactions






Seshas said:


> RNP/HMF is w/w theater if and only if RNP is falsifying his role, which seems unlikely unless he put a large amount of foresight into it or something
> v/w would resolve at EoD
> w/v just
> doesn't make sense, can't you wait until later then yoink someone's full role
> 
> so RNP and HMF are probably aligned for now


noting this but not sure what (if anything) is worth gleaning from it



Despicable Meme said:


> seshas is... acting really weird? it's hard to say what that means alignment-wise, especially being that we notoriously haven't seen seshas' wolfgame yet. maybe we should keep seshas alive for science


I think this is the first time someone sussed Seshas' tone, so this helps me townread DM



RedneckPhoenix said:


> mmmmmmmm i don't like this post
> *tbh^2*


this is probably a direct response to tbh2's critique of him, but tbh2 made that critique in the same longpost as their critique/vote on Seshas, so I'm including it here for prudence's sake even though it may not necessarily be relevant



Despicable Meme said:


> the seshas read, right? I apologize for not following up on the aforementioned suspicion earlier, I just completely forgot I'd mentioned it in public- but ahem. while I don't think her _tone_ is much any different from previous games, I do think that, back in tarot where I last engaged with non-tvt-seshas, what she'd say was like, about half explained and sometimes too eager to read some things as scummy, but all made sense if thought was given. here, though, all of her cultspec (and subsequent mobspec based on other people's cultspec) came across at best like someone who's never played against a cult in their entire life, and I have a linger suspicion that seshas isn't such a person. willful ignorance is, to me, a fair bit more damning than this mystical change of tone with alignment that everyone expects and not all players will have. that said, there are quite a few more posts to work with now, so, I believe I will ISO and see if I come out of it with anything more firmly built


this looks good for DM, I don't think this is a read they make on their scumpartner if they're scum



Despicable Meme said:


> roly mose, EoD is so close
> 
> welp, parking on *Seshas*; I feel like it's both a solid wagon for scumread reasons and for science reasons (which, lbr, is about as good as it gets on D1)


also looks good for DM; this vote brought the wagons to a tie at 2 koko-2 Seshas-1 tbh

(for clarity, to sum up and cap off my reads in this folder, I see Despicable Meme as towncore and my read on RNP is mostly just towny-by-association working off the premise that DM and RNP are aligned)



*somewhat towny*



Spoiler: Trebek interactions






Seshas said:


> Trebek gives off severe cultist vibes
> maybe not mafia? depends on if claims shake out the way I'm thinking





Seshas said:


> Trebek said:
> 
> 
> 
> honestly my hot take is that like
> 
> every role has some like "immune to cultification" type thing like RNP's has
> 
> but then none of those actually exist in the game and we're all just like umm wheres the cult
> 
> 
> 
> This just
> feels like the exact thing a cultist would say
Click to expand...




Seshas said:


> tbh² said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Seshas said:
> 
> 
> 
> Vibing:
> [tbh²] (note: aaaaaaaaaaa)
> [_Trebek_/Hydreigon]
> 
> 
> 
> i thought you were reading him as cultist or something?
> -m
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I'm reading Trebek as cultist but I don't think he's a wolf pending some mechanics working the way I think they do
Click to expand...

All this cultist talk (which Seshas was kind of singlehandedly pushing and no one else was biting) kinda just feels to me like randomly throwing shade at the wall to see what sticks and what doesn't? So this makes me lightly townread Trebek

also that last one in retrospect feels like it might have been backpedaling, like "oh I forgot I was trying to get town to suss him"



Seshas said:


> Trebek villager tbh





Seshas said:


> His tone just feels villagery, and unlike Tarot
> This extends to probably not cult leader?


maybe feels like an attempt to subtly backpedal after cult leader accusations didn't stick



Seshas said:


> Keldeo said:
> 
> 
> 
> @Seshas can you elaborate on your Trebek progression for me, and how you're viewing the possibility of cult at this time?
> 
> 
> 
> I think the cults at this point in time are probably not real, since we found that our singular piece of evidence for a cult existing is untrustworthy anyways
> Trebek I thought originally that "this is something a cultist would totally do, and it seems slightly awkward" and not that "town is unlikely to do this" and then I liked their tone and how they talked about the ability format in an uninformed way
Click to expand...

again, feels like a backpedal



Trebek said:


> i think after mulling over it i am going to side with the *seshas *wagon? idk how much i like how HMF has been acting about it, as skylar has mentioned earlier, but i think i still want to vote here? idk. i just sorta have weird vibes regarding seshas’s progression on me tbh


at this point the wagons were 3 Seshas-2 koko-1 tbh so this is not really indicative one way or the other, just including it for posterity



*no thoughts/NAI*



Spoiler: Storm interactions






Seshas said:


> also I swear I'm not going to be pocketed by storm again





Seshas said:


> I think storm is lightly wolfy if kokorico is town
> I have an obligation to not explain this read





Seshas said:


> Soft townread on storm for tone?
> I feel like this is exactly what I did in Tarot





storm said:


> I'm still really uncertain about reads in general, but what's been said about seshas seeming more confused than is warranted given her experience strikes me as the most... valid? firm? seeming reason for a vote, so I suppose that's what I'm leaning towards?
> 
> tho also my brain is currently kind of mush as weather is still Ongoing and I bet out of spite it won't abate and take my headache with it until past end of day, and the like. Greater Seshas Meta Read going on rn is essentially a vortex that eats my thoughts whenever I try to look at it


leaving these here, not sure how to read them yet





Spoiler: Butterfree interactions






Seshas said:


> Butterfree is slightly vibing I guess? Wouldn't go there on D1


tough to read but included for posterity





Spoiler: Keldeo interactions






Seshas said:


> I continue to be keldeo-paranoid
> I haven't picked up a good vibe from them but that's probably because I haven't been paying attention to thread


tough to read but included for posterity



*scummy*



Spoiler: Mist interactions






Seshas said:


> Partial miller claim is probably NAI, I'm not sure what the first would be other than a straight anonymous message?





Seshas said:


> I have decided that a mindmeld with mist on the RNP read is a bad reason to TR him
> I'm kind of eh on VM tbh


maybe NAI but leaving these here anyway for posterity



Seshas said:


> Seshas said:
> 
> 
> 
> I might as well claim now?
> I am RNP's sandwich quote, can give a sandwich each night to a player which provides a notification
> and once per game I can protect someone and die in their place if they're attacked
> 
> 
> 
> N0 Mist
Click to expand...




Mist1422 said:


> Seshas said:
> 
> 
> 
> I might as well claim now?
> I am RNP's sandwich quote, can give a sandwich each night to a player which provides a notification
> and once per game I can protect someone and die in their place if they're attacked
> 
> 
> 
> confirming the sandwich tbh
Click to expand...




Mist1422 said:


> *kokorico*
> 
> not letting seshas go over sorry


either Seshas/Mist are w/w or Seshas is telling the truth about her sandwich thing and using it to pocket Mist

(at the time of that vote, wagons were 6 Seshas-2 koko-1 tbh)





Spoiler: kyeugh interactions



prefacing this by saying I really don't know how to read kyeugh, all of her interactions with Seshas seem really teammatey/scummy, but outside of Seshas interactions she feels really towny to me? so this section is mostly gonna be me dumping quotes of her Seshas interactions and being unable to analyze them

the biggest piece of evidence that makes me doubt my read and think kyeugh may be town after all is that she was the first one to quote the town wincon, but as others have said, that's not foolproof. also I think I've seen softs from her that she's an important power role (which I won't ID here so as not to give it away to the mafia if she's not mafia), but which could be equally easily read as her openwolfing. so, shrug, she is the most difficult for me to read. I don't want to yeet her immediately but if some of my other scumreads turn out accurate, I will trust myself more and be more inclined to want to yeet her


Seshas said:


> Oh yeah, kyeugh has posted a significant amount and I don't remember anything they said?
> lean villa
> inb4 randed alien





kyeugh said:


> Seshas said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Despicable Meme said:
> 
> 
> 
> seshas is... acting really weird? it's hard to say what that means alignment-wise, especially being that we notoriously haven't seen seshas' wolfgame yet. maybe we should keep seshas alive for science
> 
> 
> 
> I'm fairly sure this has been brought up in every game except TvT
> now all that's left is for mewt and kyeugh to start a wagon on me
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> ah, tempting...
> 
> i disagree that seshas is acting weird. in fact, i’m vibing. *kokorico*
Click to expand...




kyeugh said:


> hmmm, ok. i like those thoughts even if i don’t quite agree.
> 
> i kind of like the idea of competing seshas/koko wagons because i believe they’re probably anti-aligned. do you think they could be v/v or w/w?


(this is a response to tbh2's longpost sussing/voting against Seshas)


Seshas said:


> If tbh is V, I trust them on this read
> if tbh is W, this isn't the type of read they'd make on a teammate
> conclusion: kyeugh is V


based on my own experience as scum in Tarot, leaning on other people's reads is an excellent way to look solvey without having to come up with villa!yourself's ideas. this could be either Seshas taking advantage of an easy way to clear teammate!kyeugh or just seeing villager!kyeugh as a reasonable towncore person to help make their reads more plausible. so unfortunately it's probably not indicative



kyeugh said:


> tbh² said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> kyeugh said:
> 
> 
> 
> i'm not really sure i see what the problem with seshas's cult spec is.  can you guys point to specific posts?
> 
> 
> 
> yeah. (to be clear, my issue is that i think she seems _really_ unbothered or disengaged about it / i think that total ambivalence doesn't read town to me)
> 
> 
> Spoiler: quotes
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Seshas said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> tbh² said:
> 
> 
> 
> genuine q. is cultspec like. important? i'm assuming so considering that a cursory google implies that recruited cultists lose town powers lol ...
> -m
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> my strategy w/r/t cultists is hide in a corner and hope they go away
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Seshas said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Seshas said:
> 
> 
> 
> *kokorico*
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I feel like he's rushing a stance on the cultist thing for the purpose of taking one, instead of proceeding in good faith
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> when koko was exercising like, ~understandable cult paranoia, while imo proceeding in 'good faith' on what e thought was an early trebek read (even if i disagreed)
> 
> 
> kokorico said:
> 
> 
> 
> I kinda get the thing of sussing Trebek for what he said about cultification, but it seems a tad weak to me. It's exactly the sort of joking around that several people, me included, have already been doing about the setup. If you're going to read him as a cultist for that, why not also read me as someone who causes eight nightkills at once and then brings two and a half of them back to life over the course of the day? Hell, I could equally say that _Seshas_ seems culty for trying to pin the blame on Trebek.
> 
> If there is a cult (and despite the joking, I do think it's more likely than not - useless roles can be amusing but I'm sure Mawile has better ways to troll us) I agree with kyeugh that getting rid of them should be our first priority, as they're only going to get more powerful over the course of the game.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Seshas said:
> 
> 
> 
> I think my stance on cults is that I'm salty I can no longer lean on my townbloc
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> while seeming loosely concerned about the cult vs. mafia thing and not really doing anything about it?
> 
> 
> Seshas said:
> 
> 
> 
> There's seriously a chance that there's no mafia and just a cult this game
> that would explain the lack of a N0 kill
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> i'm having trouble seeing this stuff as scummy.  i guess i don't really understand what your bar for sufficiently "bothered" or "engaged" is—these posts read to me like seshas is actually quite open to and concerned about the prospect of a cult.  what would you have rather seen them post?  you say seshas is concerned about the cult vs. mafia thing but don't like that she didn't do anything about it—what is she supposed to do?  none of us know for sure that a cult exists.  her posting about it seems apt to me, and i strongly disagree that it looks like it's coming from someone who has "never played against a cult in their entire life"
Click to expand...




kyeugh said:


> however i don’t see the wagons moving off koko/seshas, though, and until they do i think koko is where i’m going to have to stay. i might be open to a third wagon if anyone has any ideas.





kyeugh said:


> i'm vibing personally.  i don't think a seshas lynch will give us that much useful information to go on unless she flips wolf (doubt), and koko isn't getting yeeted today.  at least this way we get a clear on a living player at minimum.  *redneckphoenix* sorry bro don't flame i feel guilty





kyeugh said:


> np if it's too late to do this but meh, if not gonna go back to *kokorico*.








Spoiler: Hydreigon interactions






Seshas said:


> I sort of vaguely liked Hydreigon's entrance but I don't think it's a thing to put too much stock into





Seshas said:


> I also vaguely liked Hydreigon's mindset, they feel like they're trying to solve noturally and not propped up by teammates


context: these had no real context in thread and many other folks pointed out how weird they seemed. feels like wolf trying to make fellow wolf look towny IMO



Seshas said:


> I think the chances of an alien or other bulletproof role being hit are lower than doctor purely because there are some players, like hydreigon, that probably aren't ever going to get N0'd


99% chance this is NAI but the other 1% is like, why does Hydreigon happen to be the person Seshas first thinks of here   



Seshas said:


> I think that this is solidly Town!Vipera, based of play in Cats and TvT
> which is cool because Town!Hydreigon


seems like more wolf trying to make wolf look good



Hydreigon25 said:


> *kokorico*


this vote attempt was right after the day-end cutoff, and would have flipped the wagons from Seshas majority to rand Seshas/koko. looks very bad IMO

(for posterity I should disclaim that I have tried very hard not to allow Hydreigon's baffling push on me and Trebek at EOD to factor into my thinking, but I can't necessarily ensure it's not subconsciously there)





Spoiler: VM interactions






Seshas said:


> I have decided that a mindmeld with mist on the RNP read is a bad reason to TR him
> I'm kind of eh on VM tbh





Seshas said:


> Hydreigon25 said:
> 
> 
> 
> what is everyone's thoughts about VM up to now ?
> 
> 
> 
> kind of a solid null, don't feel what I think rari said about the solving in that one post?
Click to expand...

NAI on their own but in light of their later interactions, perhaps w/w attempt at distancing? 



Vipera Magnifica said:


> Alright @Hydreigon25 thanks for answering my questions
> 
> The lie detector was bullshit, I don't have any kind of role like that. But now I am reasonably certain that Hydreigon is town!
> 
> Gonna park my vote on *Seshas*


at this point the wagons were 4 Seshas-2 koko-1 tbh so this is not really indicative one way or the other, just including it for posterity



Seshas said:


> I think that this is solidly Town!Vipera, based of play in Cats and TvT
> which is cool because Town!Hydreigon





Vipera Magnifica said:


> I don't know if a Seshas yeet right now is the best idea, so unless we hop on board with Despicable Meme that's what will happen? Seshas can maybe give a sandwich to tbh or Hydreigon or someone else who is very likely town


 at Seshas and VM both acting like each other and Hydreigon are strong towncore



Vipera Magnifica said:


> ah well i tried






*did not interact with Seshas*

Emmy

---------

ultimately I'm thinking that {Mist/kyeugh/Hydreigon/VM} probably includes at least a couple of Seshas' scummates and at least one villager whom I'm either misreading or whom Seshas intentionally seeded as a distraction?

I feel strongest about *Hydreigon* and that's where I'm placing my vote. If they flip wolf I think that reflects really badly on VM because of all the Seshas-VM-Hydreigon "we all three look towny!" TMI posts; if they don't flip wolf, I'll have to re-evaluate


----------



## Novae

well that nightkill definitely did happen so we probably have scum


----------



## JackPK

rip trebek :(


----------



## kyeugh

bad news guys


----------



## Novae

kyeugh said:


> bad news guys


yeah kinda sucks that we yeeted a wolf yesterday


----------



## kyeugh

Mist1422 said:


> kyeugh said:
> 
> 
> 
> bad news guys
> 
> 
> 
> yeah kinda sucks that we yeeted a wolf yesterday
Click to expand...

wolfy response tbh


----------



## Novae

@RedneckPhoenix 
did you get my gift

it's not sandwich related I promise


----------



## Novae

oh and fwiw

my townread on RNP was entirely posturing I just wanted to get my n1 action off on him because it's always +ev

I also propose we let him survive today unconditionally for the same reasons


----------



## tbh²

well, this is bittersweet. rip trebek :(
during the night, we have arrived to the same conclusion about *hydreigon25* as jack did, so we’re parking our vote at them for now. we’re going to post our case on them later tonight.
- rari


----------



## RedneckPhoenix

Mist1422 said:


> @RedneckPhoenix
> did you get my gift
> 
> it's not sandwich related I promise


i recieved... something.

you want me to claim what it was?


----------



## RedneckPhoenix

i didn't use my ability last night bc why would i


----------



## Novae

RedneckPhoenix said:


> Mist1422 said:
> 
> 
> 
> @RedneckPhoenix
> did you get my gift
> 
> it's not sandwich related I promise
> 
> 
> 
> i recieved... something.
> 
> you want me to claim what it was?
Click to expand...

your call

though I would say it's probably better to hold off until tomorrow


----------



## storm

I cannot recall, did hydreigon post an immunity??

also I can now say I had some weird feelings about seshas claiming to be pocketed by me in tarot when I do not. actually recall interacting much specifically beyond asking a few questions?? I found it odd that it stuck out so much that it came up several times as a fear when reading me, but now I feel it probably was also to better establish a town vibe? if that makes sense??

and it definitely put me off but I thought actually saying something so early on would be needlessly confrontational, and tbh I was a bit intimidated,,,


----------



## RedneckPhoenix

probs. either way, since you knew about it before i even claimed it, i think i can vouch for mist


----------



## RedneckPhoenix

did i have a sandwich quote? seshas said i did but it didn't occur to me until now to look for it 

and i cant find it


----------



## Hydreigon25

Seshas said:


> Wooloo:
> [RedneckPhoenix/Despicable Meme]
> 
> Vibing:
> [tbh²]
> [Trebek/Hydreigon]
> [kokorico/JackPK]
> 
> ​


​
After careful consideration i have reason to believe this was a possible mafia hit-list & anyone. not on that list could be mafia


----------



## kyeugh

why would she share that information publicly lol


----------



## Butterfree

Well that was a plot twist.

I still haven't finished catching up on the posts I missed yesterday and am still a bit fried after the operation (though feeling better) so don't expect me to contribute too hard just yet. Reserving judgement on Hydreigon et al until I've actually done the reading.

Is mafia fruit vendor a thing? I was kind of assuming not, and that this made Mist aligned with Seshas, but maybe it's just shenanigans being shenanigans(tm).


----------



## tbh²

@kyeugh what does your read list look like vaguely? if you have it
-m


----------



## Novae

I mean

we don't know exactly what the sandwich does, so


----------



## tbh²

Hydreigon25 said:


> After careful consideration i have reason to believe this was a possible mafia hit-list & anyone. not on that list could be mafia


hey where'd your font go
are you saying that everyone on there is clear?
-m


----------



## storm

the mystery of the disappearing serif


----------



## tbh²

RedneckPhoenix said:


> did i have a sandwich quote? seshas said i did but it didn't occur to me until now to look for it
> 
> and i cant find it


i think it’s the one i have in my sig. something about “the only way i would take orders from you is if my job applications at subway went through”
- rari


----------



## Hydreigon25

VP since you tried shenanigans before the EoD 1 i question your motive, i also find Keldeo's EoD Response suspicious


----------



## tbh²

Hydreigon25 said:


> VP since you tried shenanigans before the EoD 1 i question your motive, i also find Keldeo's EoD Response suspicious


what do you find suspicious and which keldeo response are you referring to?
-m


----------



## Hydreigon25

tbh² said:


> Hydreigon25 said:
> 
> 
> 
> After careful consideration i have reason to believe this was a possible mafia hit-list & anyone. not on that list could be mafia
> 
> 
> 
> hey where'd your font go
> are you saying that everyone on there is clear?
> -m
Click to expand...

at least in my opinion, because we lost a town member that I was questioning D1


----------



## Despicable Meme

storm said:


> I cannot recall, did hydreigon post an immunity??


seconding this question - I'm particularly interested in this, me and mf were talking last night that seshas flipping scum looks yikesbad for hydre

@Hydreigon25 , do you have an immunity?


----------



## Hydreigon25

tbh² said:


> Hydreigon25 said:
> 
> 
> 
> VP since you tried shenanigans before the EoD 1 i question your motive, i also find Keldeo's EoD Response suspicious
> 
> 
> 
> what do you find suspicious and which keldeo response are you referring to?
> -m
Click to expand...

i find the following quote suspicious 




Keldeo said:


> Sorry Seshas.


----------



## Hydreigon25

Despicable Meme said:


> storm said:
> 
> 
> 
> I cannot recall, did hydreigon post an immunity??
> 
> 
> 
> seconding this question - I'm particularly interested in this, me and mf were talking last night that seshas flipping scum looks yikesbad for hydre
> 
> @Hydreigon25 , do you have an immunity?
Click to expand...

yes It's just a basic one though


----------



## storm

I find the fact that you're not willing to elaborate on that a little suspicious! if it's basic it shouldn't be anything difficult to reveal?


----------



## Hydreigon25

Hydreigon25 said:


> Seshas said:
> 
> 
> 
> Wooloo:
> [RedneckPhoenix/Despicable Meme]
> 
> Vibing:
> [tbh²]
> [Trebek/Hydreigon]
> [kokorico/JackPK]
> 
> 
> 
> 
> After careful consideration i have reason to believe this was a possible mafia hit-list & anyone. not on that list could be mafia
Click to expand...

Another thought I just had, was it could be possible that Seshas might not have been able to complete that list due to being yeeted D1


----------



## tbh²

Hydreigon25 said:


> Another thought I just had, was it could be possible that Seshas might not have been able to complete that list due to being yeeted D1


to complete writing the list? but she wrote it in the first few hours of the phase

-m


----------



## Hydreigon25

storm said:


> I find the fact that you're not willing to elaborate on that a little suspicious! if it's basic it shouldn't be anything difficult to reveal?


until I can get the permission to reveal it, all i can say is that it's a passive one


----------



## Despicable Meme

.... yeah they're all passive haha. who are you asking permission from? most of us have shared ours without consequence so Mawile is clearly ok w  it


----------



## Hydreigon25

tbh² said:


> Hydreigon25 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Another thought I just had, was it could be possible that Seshas might not have been able to complete that list due to being yeeted D1
> 
> 
> 
> to complete writing the list? but she wrote it in the first few hours of the phase
> 
> -m
Click to expand...

i mean Whoever Seshas was working with might have a more complete list


----------



## tbh²

Despicable Meme said:


> who are you asking permission from?


from the mafia desu?!
-m


----------



## kyeugh

tbh² said:


> @kyeugh what does your read list look like vaguely? if you have it
> -m


sure!  was thinking a bit about this overNight.

to preface, i'm going to say that i was of course majorly wrong about seshas, but for reasons that i still feel were valid and that i'll explain at a later time.  i expect to receive some heat today for having defended her, and that's fine, but i do ask that you kind of give me the benefit of the doubt on this.  for what it's worth, and i'm sure that isn't much, i don't think i _ever_ go that far defending a partner.

seshas's flip ended up altering a lot of my reads, but i think at the moment my list looks something like this, vaguely ordered within tiers:


Spoiler: reads



*very probably town:*

tbh² — i've just been getting really good vibes from you.  i'm not sure what to expect from this hydra as a wolf, but i really liked the way our conversation about seshas/koko felt yesterday, and i think you've had a good, solvy mindset.
despicable meme — between the rnp thing and the early, judicious push on seshas, i'm gonna say you've got to be villager here.
*towny enough:*

rnp — sort of an association read with despicable meme.  i'm currently operating under the assumption that the entire debacle with rnp's alignment reveal was exactly as it appeared.  i was close to putting him in the higher tier, but i still am not convinced his role MUST be town, and that's kind of the only thing going for him imo, so i'm reserving a bit of suspicion.
keldeo—nothing solid here, i've just gotten good vibes.  i thought his eod felt pretty good, with the caveat that his eod was basically all of his posting yesterDay.  i feel like his thoughts felt a bit more similar to the ones he has as town—the last few games, where he's rolled wolf, i just felt that his tone was somewhat different.  not really sure i can expand on or substantiate that, which is why he's sitting in this middle tier.
*meh:*

vm—i want to say town here for the gambit with hydreigon, but i'll feel much better about you once i have a better idea of hydreigon.  if they flip wolf it means they didn't fall for the trick after all, which could have any of several implications.  i guess we'll cross that bridge when we get to it, but i don't want to read vm too highly on that point for now.  everything else from him has been kind of shrug.
storm—idk, i've never had a read on you at any point in any game, tbh.  i guess your posting seems fine but it kind of always does, so idk.  i guess you're being somewhat more aggressive here, which is a decent look.
mist—i'm finding it pretty hard to get a read on you too, but i think that's sort of normal for me.  you kind of evade me no matter what.  i want to say your switch off seshas during eod yesterday was actually townier than not?  that's pretty much the only real thought i have on you.  i get lightly scummy vibes from you at all times, but i'm trying to look past them because they don't seem to ever have anything to do with your actual alignment, lol.
jackpk—not gonna lie, i have no idea how to read you at all.  my instinct seems to be to read you as mafia for some reason.  i don't feel that you've done anything particularly towny yet though.
kokorico—i don't actually feel better than i did about em yesterday tone-wise, but i meant what i said about em and seshas not being w/w, so uh, here we are i guess.  idk, i'm not really going to push on this for now, although i'm keeping my eye on it.
*post moar:*

butterfree
indigoemmy
*ööörgh:*

hydreigon—i actually disagree that seshas's weird fixation on them was seshas trying to build up cred for her wolfbuddy.  i feel like that would be a bit heavy-handed tbh, and it was utterly unnecessary at the time as hydreigon wasn't really under any fire.  in fact, i'd say doing so put hydreigon under more fire than they would be otherwise.  however, i do think hydreigon's last minute vote was a bit weird, and i have no idea what is going on with their posting right now.  could be a culture difference?  i guess?  idk, i'm a bit wigged out.  on the other hand, if this is actually just a culture clash i'm pretty sure nothing hydreigon ever says is going to make me feel better about them, so meh.



before writing this post i feel like i had a better grasp on the gamestate, but i don't really.  any bad vibes i get from people (jack, mist, koko) are not vibes i'm interested in pushing right now, nor are they vibes i feel that i can explain (more than i already have anyway), so a bit blank and directionless at the moment.  that said, i do feel pretty good about my townreads (tbh/dm), although i suspect they feel somewhat less decent about me?  heh.


----------



## Despicable Meme

i don't think mf will object to my vote on *hydreigon25* right now, since i'm unsatisfied by their reactions in thread today and we already sussed them


----------



## Hydreigon25

tbh² said:


> Despicable Meme said:
> 
> 
> 
> who are you asking permission from?
> 
> 
> 
> from the mafia desu?!
> -m
Click to expand...

From the GM 

my passive immunity is that I'm < immune to day silencing >​


----------



## Despicable Meme

hmm. I have reason to believe that there's information being left out here.


----------



## Despicable Meme

* not necessarily left out but at least missing


----------



## Despicable Meme

is there anyone with like, _good _hydre feelings right now? or has had any good hydre feelings post- sesh flip?


----------



## JackPK

Hydreigon25 said:


> From the GM
> 
> 
> my passive immunity is that I'm < immune to day silencing >


putting this in a readable color for those of us in Roar of Time style


----------



## JackPK

Hydreigon, please just... stop using text colors altogether. You don't know what skin everyone else is using and it's just much clearer if nobody can accidentally miss some information because it blended into the background.


----------



## Hydreigon25

tbh i really am town


----------



## storm

I have the opposite of good feelings and have more I could say here but. I might hold off for now

also yes accessibility in terms of visibility is a really good idea!


----------



## kyeugh

Despicable Meme said:


> is there anyone with like, _good _hydre feelings right now? or has had any good hydre feelings post- sesh flip?


 definitely not good feelings.  however i do want to reiterate that i don't believe seshas's posting about them was necessarily a wolf buttering up their partner for the thread.  could have been going for the pocket, etc.  while i agree hydreigon looks pretty o__o rn, i think assuming that about their dynamic makes them look quite a lot worse and i don't want to end up tunnelling due to it when that might not be fair/accurate.

that said, i thinking "meh idk that i really want to pile onto this wagon, i'll let it develop a bit first" but it's way, way early into the day so i don't think there's actually any harm in placing my vote on *hydreigon25* for now.


----------



## RedneckPhoenix

Hydreigon25 said:


> tbh i really am town


damn dude never thought of it like this, guess that's dealt with


----------



## RedneckPhoenix

*hydreigon25*


----------



## tbh²

i am ... about to go play danganronpa. but i will say that i don't at all think seshas TRing hydrei was more likely to be a pocket attempt or something than a wolf trying to establish their partner in townland, from what i know seshas is a bit of a powerwolf and she also insisted that hydrei was 'solvy' based on incredibly little very early on in the Day

i don't think that "well she started doing it early" is a reason to doubt that it was powerwolfing. i would actually argue that if you're going to take that approach, you /have/ to start early on

i'm also like, terrified of tunnelling here, hence hopefully rari and i can write a case later. we never fully caught up after EoD so we have to get on that

-m


----------



## RedneckPhoenix

ooh danganronpa 

you streaming?


----------



## tbh²

RedneckPhoenix said:


> ooh danganronpa
> 
> you streaming?


hell yeah brother
-m


----------



## RedneckPhoenix

hell yeah


----------



## Despicable Meme

oh y'all i actually had an idea, idk if y'all know monster prom but it's a fun competitive dating sim, i was thinking if anyone (up to 3 other ppl per game, or maybe 4 if i'm bored of playing but still down to run it for yall) wanted to join me then i could stream it and y'all could like. tell me which answers to click when it's y'alls turns


----------



## Despicable Meme

why did i use that word 5 times in a row. i'm going to be so mocked when i go to new york


----------



## Hydreigon25

For what it's worth I'm the town messager ( i do what is best for the town )


----------



## RedneckPhoenix

sounds interesting


----------



## RedneckPhoenix

Hydreigon25 said:


> For what it's worth I'm the town messager ( i do what is best for the town )


huh? is this you misspelling messenger, or... massager


----------



## RedneckPhoenix

either way what, mechanically, do you do fam.


----------



## Novae

Despicable Meme said:


> is there anyone with like, _good _hydre feelings right now? or has had any good hydre feelings post- sesh flip?


I had good vibes from their D1 it felt lost in a not-ingroup way


----------



## Novae

Hydreigon25 said:


> For what it's worth I'm the town messager ( i do what is best for the town )


What have your actions been so far?


----------



## Despicable Meme

thank you mist. it was a genuine info-seeking question tbh, i wasn't trying to imply that it would be wrong to have those good feelings


----------



## kyeugh

RedneckPhoenix said:


> *hydreigon25*


lmfao


----------



## kyeugh

tbh² said:


> i am ... about to go play danganronpa. but i will say that i don't at all think seshas TRing hydrei was more likely to be a pocket attempt or something than a wolf trying to establish their partner in townland, from what i know seshas is a bit of a powerwolf and she also insisted that hydrei was 'solvy' based on incredibly little very early on in the Day
> 
> i don't think that "well she started doing it early" is a reason to doubt that it was powerwolfing. i would actually argue that if you're going to take that approach, you /have/ to start early on


that’s fair. i just don’t want “seshas said nice things about them for unclear reasons” to be the thing that pushes us over the line when it isn’t _necessarily_ proof of anything imo.

not that there is an absence of other material to warrant a vote at this point in time.


----------



## Hydreigon25

Mist1422 said:


> Hydreigon25 said:
> 
> 
> 
> For what it's worth I'm the town messager ( i do what is best for the town )
> 
> 
> 
> What have your actions been so far?
Click to expand...

that's classified, but I can say that trying to find out who is anti-town is hard when you're a town-messenger


----------



## kyeugh

Hydreigon25 said:


> that's classified


 wh... why...


----------



## Vipera Magnifica

I have a redcheck on* tbh²*


----------



## Vipera Magnifica

god I would have been pocketed by them all game otherwise


----------



## RedneckPhoenix

cant tell if hydrei is being intentionally scummy to get lynched as alien or is just not accustomed to our meta or is just genuinely mafish


----------



## RedneckPhoenix

Vipera Magnifica said:


> I have a redcheck on* tbh²*


who did you read n0


----------



## RedneckPhoenix

you know not to immediately change subjects

but looking back on evidence from my role pm, i'm pretty sure the passives are bullshit


----------



## Novae

*tbh^2*

the shocking betrayal...


----------



## RedneckPhoenix

i dunno if this is gonna put me in the gm's bad books but basically when i first got my role there was an empty space that just said (passive)

as if they fucked up and forgot to copy/paste a sample message


----------



## JackPK

RedneckPhoenix said:


> Vipera Magnifica said:
> 
> 
> 
> I have a redcheck on* tbh²*
> 
> 
> 
> who did you read n0
Click to expand...

seconding this question

moving my vote to *tbh2*

lmao the speed with which my reads just completely exploded


----------



## Mawile

RedneckPhoenix said:


> i dunno if this is gonna put me in the gm's bad books but basically when i first got my role there was an empty space that just said (passive)
> 
> as if they fucked up and forgot to copy/paste a sample message


it's cause i went to go eat a snack and thought i finished yours


----------



## RedneckPhoenix

why did you need time to finish writing a passive? were you trying to come up with something that made sense but didn't affect the game?


----------



## JackPK

also VM are you claiming cop, some other kind of inspection role, or are you leaving it ambiguous for now?


----------



## RedneckPhoenix

why would there be filler space in the summary for a passive if everyone didn't have one?


----------



## Vipera Magnifica

I had a greencheck on kokorico n0


----------



## Mawile

RedneckPhoenix said:


> why would there be filler space in the summary for a passive if everyone didn't have one?


thankfully i removed filler space in the summary for some people's [REDACTED], since not everyone had a [REDACTED]


----------



## RedneckPhoenix

not just one empty slot, but two. like you used a template for writing roles and forgot to fill mine.


----------



## RedneckPhoenix

typo in the role pm


----------



## Mawile

RedneckPhoenix said:


> not just one empty slot, but two. like you used a template for writing roles and forgot to fill mine.


yes because i filled in each thing as i wrote the flavor


----------



## RedneckPhoenix

so you're admitting that the passives are tied only to flavor and not actual mechanical aspects of the game. very illuminating


----------



## Mawile

RedneckPhoenix said:


> so you're admitting that the passives are tied only to flavor and not actual mechanical aspects of the game. very illuminating


clearly also the actual powers of each roles are tied to flavor, since i wrote those first too


----------



## storm

okay so this might be even more relevant now - I tracked hydreigon last night, but my result was. not hydreigon at all, but tbh² and I sure would like an explanation of what happened there!

(for what it's worth, they did not appear to target anyone)


----------



## Mawile

(i just like writing flavor and i had a Method for writing role PMs where I would fill in the flavor and then fill in the corresponding part of the summary for each part of a role as I went, and clearly this method failed on both you and another person due to me getting distracted. i apologize for the inconvenience)


----------



## JackPK

storm said:


> okay so this might be even more relevant now - I tracked hydreigon last night, but my result was. not hydreigon at all, but tbh² and I sure would like an explanation of what happened there!
> 
> (for what it's worth, they did not appear to target anyone)


what was your n0 result?


----------



## RedneckPhoenix

Mawile said:


> (i just like writing flavor and i had a Method for writing role PMs where I would fill in the flavor and then fill in the corresponding part of the summary for each part of a role as I went, and clearly this method failed on both you and another person due to me getting distracted. i apologize for the inconvenience)


you're supposed to get illogically angry and modkill me


----------



## JackPK

storm said:


> okay so this might be even more relevant now - I tracked hydreigon last night, but my result was. not hydreigon at all, but tbh² and I sure would like an explanation of what happened there!
> 
> (for what it's worth, they did not appear to target anyone)


wait fuck if your results were swapped that means VM's probably were too

*Hydreigon* again


----------



## storm

I tracked despicable meme, who also didn't target anyone! this would have been very uneventful if not for getting results from someone completely different


----------



## Mawile

RedneckPhoenix said:


> Mawile said:
> 
> 
> 
> (i just like writing flavor and i had a Method for writing role PMs where I would fill in the flavor and then fill in the corresponding part of the summary for each part of a role as I went, and clearly this method failed on both you and another person due to me getting distracted. i apologize for the inconvenience)
> 
> 
> 
> you're supposed to get illogically angry and modkill me
Click to expand...

lmao no i'm having too much fun being entertained to modkill people for stuff like that


----------



## kyeugh

*vipera magnifica*
will explain after mewt's stream
the answer may shock you


----------



## RedneckPhoenix

damn, my childhood really _didn't_ prepare me for life


----------



## Novae

*unvote*

i no longer understand anything


----------



## RedneckPhoenix

oh i never shared my role name huh. 's called sensei.


----------



## Vipera Magnifica

JackPK said:


> storm said:
> 
> 
> 
> okay so this might be even more relevant now - I tracked hydreigon last night, but my result was. not hydreigon at all, but tbh² and I sure would like an explanation of what happened there!
> 
> (for what it's worth, they did not appear to target anyone)
> 
> 
> 
> wait fuck if your results were swapped that means VM's probably were too
> 
> *Hydreigon* again
Click to expand...

no... mine were definitely not swapped


----------



## storm

it's only been a few hours, how many times can I use the wow reaction? So Many More than I would ever have anticipated,


----------



## JackPK

Vipera Magnifica said:


> JackPK said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> storm said:
> 
> 
> 
> okay so this might be even more relevant now - I tracked hydreigon last night, but my result was. not hydreigon at all, but tbh² and I sure would like an explanation of what happened there!
> 
> (for what it's worth, they did not appear to target anyone)
> 
> 
> 
> wait fuck if your results were swapped that means VM's probably were too
> 
> *Hydreigon* again
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> no... mine were definitely not swapped
Click to expand...

are you saying your result PM used tbh's username?


----------



## Vipera Magnifica

JackPK said:


> Vipera Magnifica said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> JackPK said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> storm said:
> 
> 
> 
> okay so this might be even more relevant now - I tracked hydreigon last night, but my result was. not hydreigon at all, but tbh² and I sure would like an explanation of what happened there!
> 
> (for what it's worth, they did not appear to target anyone)
> 
> 
> 
> wait fuck if your results were swapped that means VM's probably were too
> 
> *Hydreigon* again
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> no... mine were definitely not swapped
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> are you saying your result PM used tbh's username?
Click to expand...

yes


----------



## storm

I also could clearly see that my results were swapped! I imagine it would be the same for vm or any other role where you get information back at the end of the night phase


----------



## RedneckPhoenix

yeah, are you?


----------



## RedneckPhoenix

someone's lying here and i intend to find out who


...later


----------



## kyeugh

actually, i'm going to just say it now.  my role is the witness.  i have the power to check someone's alignment each night or, if that person dies, i receive the alignment of their killer. i watched tbh² n0 and had my result redirected to koko, and received a red check (hence my day yesterday).  i watched jack last night and was blocked.

vm, if you're town, one of us is insane.  i'm actually going to move my vote off you for now because i don't think it's impossible you're telling the truth and are just insane, but i'm going to move to *kokorico* instead.


----------



## kyeugh

kyeugh said:


> i watched tbh² n0 and had my result redirected to koko, and received a red check (hence my day yesterday).


ftr, to dispel ambiguity, my result pm clearly stated that "despite watching tbh², i discovered that kokorico is mafia."


----------



## RedneckPhoenix

imagine being quiet abt a redcheck

*kokorico*


----------



## Novae

I may be able to resolve this conflict tonight tbh so I think going after one of koko/tbh^2 is not the worst of ideas


----------



## kyeugh

RedneckPhoenix said:


> imagine being quiet abt a redcheck
> 
> *kokorico*


 i wasn't exactly quiet, and outing yourself as cop d1 is a pretty bad move.  not like we didn't end up lynching mafia anyway tbh.


----------



## JackPK

*unvote* and I'm gonna need awhile to think through the implications of all these claims

at least somebody and maybe multiple people have to be lying/tampered with/unreliable


----------



## Vipera Magnifica

big hmmm at kyeugh's role and mine existing in the same setup


----------



## Novae

Can you two both claim your flavor


----------



## kyeugh

Vipera Magnifica said:


> big hmmm at kyeugh's role and mine existing in the same setup


 i don't really think it's all that weird considering that, if you're telling the truth, one of us is insane.  seems about right for this game imo, given how bastardy it's looking.


Mist1422 said:


> Can you two both claim your flavor


 i forget, are we allowed to post our flavor quotes directly?


----------



## JackPK

@Despicable Meme @tbh² do either of you have a night action? if so, did you use it or abstain from using it on the night storm claims to have tracked you (n0 DM, n1 tbh)

I may be going somewhere with this depending on the replies I get, not sure yet


----------



## Mawile

kyeugh said:


> i forget, are we allowed to post our flavor quotes directly?


if you mean the quote i assigned you from TVTropes Mafia, yes you can


----------



## storm

yeah I am. really confused with what's going on

at least given kyeugh was also redirected, it seems pretty certain that's a power in play - tho I'm essentially a noob, idk if that's common in these setups. I'd forgotten cops could have less than 100% true results until now,,,


----------



## kyeugh

ok, cool, thanks.  my quote is this:


mewtini said:


> i'm not even lying rn i had a dream the other night that i got married to ed sheeran and i woke up in a cold sweat at 5:30am
> anyway


with the logic being that, since i wake up so early, i stroll around town in the mornings while everyone else is sleeping and look into their windows for fun, and since no one thinks to conceal evidence within their own homes, i'm able to discern their alignments.


----------



## Vipera Magnifica

my role flavor is


Vipera Magnifica said:


> Joking? You think I'm _joking_? My claim was 100% serious, and you know what? Having just consulted my role PM again... I see now that I also get the irl bank account details of all players in the mafia, starting on N1! Can't believe I missed that...


pretty self-explanatory


----------



## kyeugh

storm said:


> yeah I am. really confused with what's going on
> 
> at least given kyeugh was also redirected, it seems pretty certain that's a power in play - tho I'm essentially a noob, idk if that's common in these setups. I'd forgotten cops could have less than 100% true results until now,,,


 yeah, i'm certain it's in play now that you've mentioned being affected by it too.  whether it's town or not, who knows.  by the way, when i was talking yesterDay about being unsure about the immunities since i had knowledge of another role that hadn't been mentioned but seemed like something someone should be immune to, redirection is what i was talking about.


----------



## kyeugh

kyeugh said:


> yeah, i'm certain it's in play now that you've mentioned being affected by it too.


 heh, well, i was certain of it before since i was affected by it.  but.  you get it.  it seems to be someone's role, not a passive effect or a weird one-off thing or something like that.


----------



## JackPK

Vipera Magnifica said:


> my role flavor is
> 
> 
> Vipera Magnifica said:
> 
> 
> 
> Joking? You think I'm _joking_? My claim was 100% serious, and you know what? Having just consulted my role PM again... I see now that I also get the irl bank account details of all players in the mafia, starting on N1! Can't believe I missed that...
> 
> 
> 
> pretty self-explanatory
Click to expand...

I have a gutread on this and I need to ask you something weird, please bear with me. I will explain myself after you answer

is your entire role (cop) + (unclaimed immunity) or do you have a third mechanical aspect? regardless of whether that answer was yes or no, please describe how your role PM connected your flavor quote to all the non-cop part(s) of your role

(it's ok with me if you sidestep around claiming any more mech details, I am purely interested in flavor)


----------



## Vipera Magnifica

JackPK said:


> Vipera Magnifica said:
> 
> 
> 
> my role flavor is
> 
> 
> Vipera Magnifica said:
> 
> 
> 
> Joking? You think I'm _joking_? My claim was 100% serious, and you know what? Having just consulted my role PM again... I see now that I also get the irl bank account details of all players in the mafia, starting on N1! Can't believe I missed that...
> 
> 
> 
> pretty self-explanatory
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I have a gutread on this and I need to ask you something weird, please bear with me. I will explain myself after you answer
> 
> is your entire role (cop) + (unclaimed immunity) or do you have a third mechanical aspect? regardless of whether that answer was yes or no, please describe how your role PM connected your flavor quote to all the non-cop part(s) of your role
> 
> (it's ok with me if you sidestep around claiming any more mech details, I am purely interested in flavor)
Click to expand...

I am a cop with an immunity to cult recruitment (I didn't want to say this because I'd rather the cult waste an action trying to recruit me)


----------



## storm

alright I am still Very Intrigued and Confused but gonna go to bed, looking forward to more wow reactions when I wake up,


----------



## Novae

VM do you have a separate 1-shot action

my role implies that everyone does


----------



## kyeugh

Vipera Magnifica said:


> JackPK said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Vipera Magnifica said:
> 
> 
> 
> my role flavor is
> 
> 
> Vipera Magnifica said:
> 
> 
> 
> Joking? You think I'm _joking_? My claim was 100% serious, and you know what? Having just consulted my role PM again... I see now that I also get the irl bank account details of all players in the mafia, starting on N1! Can't believe I missed that...
> 
> 
> 
> pretty self-explanatory
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I have a gutread on this and I need to ask you something weird, please bear with me. I will explain myself after you answer
> 
> is your entire role (cop) + (unclaimed immunity) or do you have a third mechanical aspect? regardless of whether that answer was yes or no, please describe how your role PM connected your flavor quote to all the non-cop part(s) of your role
> 
> (it's ok with me if you sidestep around claiming any more mech details, I am purely interested in flavor)
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I am a cop with an immunity to cult recruitment (I didn't want to say this because I'd rather the cult waste an action trying to recruit me)
Click to expand...

 i think jack was mostly asking about the stuff other than this tbh, like an extra action as mist says + the specific flavor mawile used to connect your quote to your power.


----------



## Hydreigon25

Vipera Magnifica said:


> I am a cop with an immunity to cult recruitment (I didn't want to say this because I'd rather the cult waste an action trying to recruit me)


my latest read is VM seems town to me at least for now, unless VM is faking and is actually a vig which would making him a wildcard ( not mafiia nor pure town )


----------



## JackPK

kyeugh said:


> Vipera Magnifica said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> JackPK said:
> 
> 
> 
> I have a gutread on this and I need to ask you something weird, please bear with me. I will explain myself after you answer
> 
> is your entire role (cop) + (unclaimed immunity) or do you have a third mechanical aspect? regardless of whether that answer was yes or no, please describe how your role PM connected your flavor quote to all the non-cop part(s) of your role
> 
> (it's ok with me if you sidestep around claiming any more mech details, I am purely interested in flavor)
> 
> 
> 
> I am a cop with an immunity to cult recruitment (I didn't want to say this because I'd rather the cult waste an action trying to recruit me)
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> i think jack was mostly asking about the stuff other than this tbh, like an extra action as mist says + the specific flavor mawile used to connect your quote to your power.
Click to expand...

I have a saved message I was about to post on the assumption VM doesn't have an extra action and isn't willing to go more indepth in flavor, but yes, this

I will hold off on my saved message for a bit to allow VM to respond


----------



## Vipera Magnifica

right I see what you're probably thinking about

I had a 1-shot motion detector ability that I used on Despicable Meme n0 and got no result, so that's why I figured the H&M&F/RNP thing must have been scum theater


----------



## kyeugh

that is actually very interesting to know tbh


----------



## JackPK

_please sir may I have some flavor explanation_


----------



## kyeugh

JackPK said:


> _please sir may I have some flavor explanation_


----------



## Vipera Magnifica

The explanation is that through analyzing people's bank details, I can look for any suspicious transactions connected to the criminal underworld

I can also look at someone's bank statements to see if they sent or received money on a certain day (the motion detector power)


----------



## RedneckPhoenix

Vipera Magnifica said:


> right I see what you're probably thinking about
> 
> I had a 1-shot motion detector ability that I used on Despicable Meme n0 and got no result, so that's why I figured the H&M&F/RNP thing must have been scum theater


waitwaitwait

wait

allow me a few moments to call you on your bullshit


----------



## Vipera Magnifica

RedneckPhoenix said:


> Vipera Magnifica said:
> 
> 
> 
> right I see what you're probably thinking about
> 
> I had a 1-shot motion detector ability that I used on Despicable Meme n0 and got no result, so that's why I figured the H&M&F/RNP thing must have been scum theater
> 
> 
> 
> waitwaitwait
> 
> wait
> 
> allow me a few moments to call you on your bullshit
Click to expand...

this should be good


----------



## RedneckPhoenix

i was told that you can only use either one-shots or your normal night ability, yet you say you simultaneously got a greencheck on koko AND motion detected DM?


----------



## RedneckPhoenix

i was told you CANNOT use both a one-shot and a normal night ability in the same night.


----------



## RedneckPhoenix

"ah but mine says you can"


----------



## kyeugh

this was the case with me as well, i have to choose one OR the other.  i'd be curious to hear if anyone else has the option to do both.


----------



## RedneckPhoenix

answer to that. flounder. try to wriggle out of your pathetic web of lies. say that yours is different, i dare you


----------



## RedneckPhoenix

*vm*


----------



## RedneckPhoenix

why am i turning into an edgy lawyer


----------



## JackPK

Vipera Magnifica said:


> The explanation is that through analyzing people's bank details, I can look for any suspicious transactions connected to the criminal underworld
> 
> I can also look at someone's bank statements to see if they sent or received money on a certain day (the motion detector power)


ok! here we go

my quote is 


kyeugh said:


> oh, i don’t think so. i’m not falling for the old “give a tcod person my bank information” trick again.


I thought since these quotes were riffing off each other in TVTMafia, they might be related to each other in this game. so I was trying to fish for whether your flavor/powers might be related to mine in some way, but that does not seem to be the case

_however_, my passive immunity (as I claimed yesterDay) is to being recruited by mafia, and my flavor specifically connects this with the fact that I have not given someone my bank information

if you're telling the truth about your flavor quote, my gutread is that either you're mafia (and thus Mawile chose to make our flavor quotes align by making me immune to being recruited by your faction [regardless of whether such a recruiting power exists at all]) OR our flavors were written completely independently and Mawile didn't think to link them


----------



## JackPK

kyeugh said:


> this was the case with me as well, i have to choose one OR the other.  i'd be curious to hear if anyone else has the option to do both.


I do not have the option to do both, but that's natural as a result of the fact that mine are mutually exclusive, so I had not thought to consider whether other people did or did not have the option to do both simultaneously


----------



## kyeugh

hmmmmm.  i want to say jack v for this.

i'm not sure i'm particularly convinced by the flavor association thing, just because i'm a bit uneasy about making reads based on that, but i don't fault jack for running with it.

i am somewhat more alarmed by rnp's observation about the one-shot action/regular action being mutually exclusive, because the only possibility in my mind that he's town is that he's an insane cop, but if he's lying about his check on someone i got a redcheck on, well...  (for the record, i'm pretty sure that if one of us is insane here, it's him, because koko w/tbh² v makes much more sense to me than the other way around.)

as far as i can tell, koko is a wolf if vm is town (bc he's insane), and e's a wolf if he isn't (because my check is still real, and his was to cover for a partner), so i think my vote is exactly where it should be.


----------



## Despicable Meme

storm said:


> okay so this might be even more relevant now - I tracked hydreigon last night, but my result was. not hydreigon at all, but tbh² and I sure would like an explanation of what happened there!
> 
> (for what it's worth, they did not appear to target anyone)


if tbh and hydre were somehow swapped last night that is very relevant information. 


storm said:


> I tracked despicable meme, who also didn't target anyone! this would have been very uneventful if not for getting results from someone completely different


ftr we didn't target anyone but i thought rnp's action would have made up untrackable n0?


JackPK said:


> @Despicable Meme @tbh² do either of you have a night action? if so, did you use it or abstain from using it on the night storm claims to have tracked you (n0 DM, n1 tbh)
> 
> I may be going somewhere with this depending on the replies I get, not sure yet


we do and we didn't use it

these *vm* vibes are atrocious (and rnp's note really tipped me over to vote here) and i'm pretty sure hydre and vm are w/w but i'm ok with just the vm yeet today


----------



## Despicable Meme

vm were you still gonna do a push on us today you were talking about yesterDay or did you drop it?


----------



## kyeugh

Despicable Meme said:


> ftr we didn't target anyone but i thought rnp's action would have made up untrackable n0?


 i don't think so, since rnp says himself that he can't use his one-shot ability and his normal one at the same time.


----------



## Despicable Meme

(mf is off playing the civ vi update today so it's the herbe show for now)


----------



## Despicable Meme

kyeugh said:


> Despicable Meme said:
> 
> 
> 
> ftr we didn't target anyone but i thought rnp's action would have made up untrackable n0?
> 
> 
> 
> i don't think so, since rnp says himself that he can't use his one-shot ability and his normal one at the same time.
Click to expand...

ahhh, misunderstood that bit when i read it the first time and didn't go back in thread


----------



## kyeugh

herbe, you mention hydrei/vm being w/w; can you give me some thoughts on this?





kyeugh said:


> as far as i can tell, koko is a wolf if vm is town (bc he's insane), and e's a wolf if he isn't (because my check is still real, and his was to cover for a partner), so i think my vote is exactly where it should be.


----------



## RedneckPhoenix

you guys think there's a terrorist in this game?


----------



## Despicable Meme

well, i was more certain of it before i found out tbh and hydre might have gotten switched last night, but i could totally see vm orchestrating the lie detector stunt for cred


----------



## Despicable Meme

RedneckPhoenix said:


> you guys think there's a terrorist in this game?


yes. it's you


----------



## kyeugh

Despicable Meme said:


> well, i was more certain of it before i found out tbh and hydre might have gotten switched last night, but i could totally see vm orchestrating the lie detector stunt for cred


 ah, i meant can you give me some thoughts on the quote i attached.  sorry, my phrasing was kind of confusing there.


----------



## RedneckPhoenix

not twice in a row. sadly...


----------



## Despicable Meme

kyeugh said:


> herbe, you mention hydrei/vm being w/w; can you give me some thoughts on this?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> kyeugh said:
> 
> 
> 
> as far as i can tell, koko is a wolf if vm is town (bc he's insane), and e's a wolf if he isn't (because my check is still real, and his was to cover for a partner), so i think my vote is exactly where it should be.
Click to expand...

i think it makes perfect sense from your perspective as town yknow? i guess i'm a bit too tunneled on vm to entertain a world where he's town but theres no way he's a sane cop haha. your kokovote is fine


----------



## kyeugh

do you think it's possible that koko is town?


----------



## RedneckPhoenix

everyone is guilty until proven innocent in my eyes and suchly far dm is the one set of people who fits that bill


----------



## Despicable Meme

kyeugh said:


> do you think it's possible that koko is town?


i mean if you're lying sure


----------



## Despicable Meme

like, i don't necessarily tone scumread koko, but if the mech is there the mech is there. honestly i haven't given koko's tone much thought (another reason why i'm more comfy voting vm)


----------



## Despicable Meme

i keep seeing y'all write dm and my brain says Dungeon Master every time


----------



## kyeugh

Despicable Meme said:


> kyeugh said:
> 
> 
> 
> do you think it's possible that koko is town?
> 
> 
> 
> i mean if you're lying sure
Click to expand...

 if you're sure vm is either scum or insane, do you really think i'm lying?


----------



## Despicable Meme

kyeugh said:


> Despicable Meme said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> kyeugh said:
> 
> 
> 
> do you think it's possible that koko is town?
> 
> 
> 
> i mean if you're lying sure
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> if you're sure vm is either scum or insane, do you really think i'm lying?
Click to expand...

no, so that's the only way that koko could be town. so e's scum


----------



## Despicable Meme

i like this thing where we talk out stuff so i'm forced to Think cause man am i bad at it sometimes


----------



## Despicable Meme

Something being possible/impossible and something being a thing I believe in are two different categories in my mind


----------



## kyeugh

Despicable Meme said:


> kyeugh said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Despicable Meme said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> kyeugh said:
> 
> 
> 
> do you think it's possible that koko is town?
> 
> 
> 
> i mean if you're lying sure
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> if you're sure vm is either scum or insane, do you really think i'm lying?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> no, so that's the only way that koko could be town. so e's scum
Click to expand...

 mm, okay.  if we agree on that point, i feel like koko is mechanically the better lynch here, since the option remains that vm is an insane cop (however unlikely; i do agree he's likely scum as well).

i guess i'm trying to work out here, like... i can definitely vibe with a vm lynch, although i'm curious what he'll have to say next. his silence is kind of ?, but it's also nearly 1am for him, so meh.

however, i believe koko _must_ be a wolf here, regardless of vm's alignment and regardless of your pov, and that's why i think lynching em makes more sense.  the only way e can possibly be town from my pov is that _i _am insane, vm is scum, and his check on em was a throwaway lie*—from everyone else's pov, there's also the possibility that i'm lying.  which, fair enough i guess, but unless you actually believe i'm lying or really have reason to believe that edge case, i think koko makes the most sense for the lynch today.



Spoiler: *



* i only bring this up because the thought that i might be insane occurred to me after seshas's lynch yesterday, since i really did believe the w/v thing and as a witness i would have a method of eventually mechanically confirming my own sanity; but given the stuff that's transpired toDay, i think it's way, way more likely that i'm simply sane, and everything really is as it looks to me right now.


----------



## kyeugh

kyeugh said:


> 1am


** 2am, even.


----------



## RedneckPhoenix

really, i dunno who to vote for. every time I think i have a good hold on the sitch, it changes, so. cool beans. however i will state that i'm still feeling a vm lynch today. am open to lynching koko if that's the play here. 

...really wish i had a more useful role to town. gets boring having weird roles like this. every night i can block info? damn, what a deal, that.

oh, uh, i forget if i said this but i didn't use my normal ability last night.


----------



## RedneckPhoenix

nobody would like that tbh. even i wouldn't like that. sucks that it's not even a funny role.


----------



## RedneckPhoenix

Despicable Meme said:


> i like this thing where we talk out stuff so i'm forced to Think cause man am i bad at it sometimes


haha, me too. only usually like to think on alternating weekends, but mafia makes it so i have to think daily. truly saddening.


----------



## JackPK

assuming one of these cops is either lying scum or insane, and the other is sane (bc I don't want to believe in a world where both sets of results are not to be trusted):

kyeugh claims red on koko, vm claims green on koko and red on tbh

so

if koko yeeted and flips red -> kyeugh cleared+sane, vm implicated or insane, tbh cleared by extension of vm
if koko yeeted and flips green -> kyeugh implicated or insane, vm cleared+sane, tbh mafia by extension of vm
if vm yeeted and flips red -> tbh cleared, koko implicated, kyeugh cleared (sanity tbd based on koko's subsequent flip)
if vm yeeted and flips green -> nothing known (depends heavily on vm's sanity)
if kyeugh yeeted and flips red -> koko cleared, vm cleared+sane, tbh mafia by vm's check
if kyeugh yeeted and flips green -> nothing known (depends heavily on kyeugh's sanity)
if tbh yeeted and flips red -> vm cleared+sane, koko cleared by vm's check, kyeugh implicated or insane
if tbh yeeted and flips green -> vm implicated or insane, koko mafia by vm's check, kyeugh cleared+sane by extension of koko

if nobody's insane then koko/vm are aligned, kyeugh/tbh are aligned, and these pairs are anti-aligned
if somebody's insane then my brain hurts and I don't know how to solve the gordian knot so I'm ignoring this world for now

if koko is scum -> kyeugh is truthful, vm is lying or insane
if koko is villager -> kyeugh is lying or insane AND vm is probably still lying about being able to use two actions at once

I doubt the "both are lying" universe more so I'd rather yeet one of the koko/vm pair first to try to solve these four. and if we yeet the inforole-claiming member of either pair we risk learning nothing bc sanities if they flip green, so I'd rather yeet the non-inforole-claiming one of the pair

therefore, *kokorico*

(I was gonna wait for tbh's answer to my question about storm's claim, but then I thought it through and realized it's not relevant to this particular interaction. I would still like to hear it bc it is relevant to other interactions that I'm interested in)


----------



## Despicable Meme

well done kyeugh you talked me into it
also jack helped

*kokorico*


----------



## RedneckPhoenix

eh.
*kokorico*

still feeling vm but i'll help the wagon


----------



## RedneckPhoenix

still want vm to claim that the role is fsr different to all our current evidence on one-shot simultaneosity


----------



## JackPK

last thoughts before bed

wolf!koko universe means at least one of koko/seshas was outgroup, OR seshas was willing to start a wagon on fellow ingroup scum as the Very First Wagon of the game

wolf!tbh universe means at least one of tbh/seshas was outgroup, OR tbh was willing to derail a wagon on a villager by starting a wagon on fellow ingroup scum

neither-are-wolves universe means either 1) vm is scum and picked a random real villager to claim green to seem plausible, and kyeugh is insane, OR 2) vm is the kind of insane that gets randomized results instead of inverted ones, and kyeugh is insane or scum



I think I have to make myself believe that at least one of seshas/{koko or tbh} was/is outgroup, because every other scenario is either too implausible or too bastard


----------



## JackPK

JackPK said:


> make myself believe


I say this because I'm really, really, really, really, really fucking afraid of neither-are-wolves universe possibility number 1


----------



## kyeugh

JackPK said:


> wolf!koko universe means at least one of koko/seshas was outgroup, OR seshas was willing to start a wagon on fellow ingroup scum as the Very First Wagon of the game


 meh, tbf seshas didn’t really make much of a case against koko. it could’ve been distancing that she was forced to stick with once she became the leading wagon and no other competition developed/her buddies bussed. i think she may have expected that the thread would move on; she wouldn’t have had much reason to anticipate someone else strongly advocating a koko wagon at that point. most of the argument about them being anti-aligned was from me, because i was leaning into the “seshas is v, therefore koko is w” angle since i couldn’t say that i had a red check. not impossible that one is outgroup, and maybe it’s even likely, but i don’t think it HAS to be the case.


----------



## tbh²

lol i haven't read anything but i see that a lot has occurred?! sorry, have only just stopped my stream, hoping to get through a bit here before going to sleep

first thing:


JackPK said:


> @Despicable Meme @tbh² do either of you have a night action? if so, did you use it or abstain from using it on the night storm claims to have tracked you (n0 DM, n1 tbh)


yes we have a night action, yes we used it both nights, but it wouldn't come up in a tracking result - it's targetless tbh!
-m


----------



## tbh²

Hey gamers, Mewtini Griffin here, to catch up on ... (cough)


RedneckPhoenix said:


> oh i never shared my role name huh. 's called sensei.


because ... you make ... ninjas ... HAHAHAHA omg. love


Vipera Magnifica said:


> big hmmm at kyeugh's role and mine existing in the same setup


why tbh? if you have a bastard / insane cop role i think that it would make perfect sense.
as an aside i think that, on flavor, this quote sounds like it could very well be bastard tbh


Vipera Magnifica said:


> Joking? You think I'm _joking_? My claim was 100% serious, and you know what? Having just consulted my role PM again... I see now that I also get the irl bank account details of all players in the mafia, starting on N1! Can't believe I missed that...


sidenote that i really like jack's inquisitiveness through all this, esp that flavor catch (like skylar, kind of nervous of putting too much stock into it, but i think it's a really good look for jack to have been thinking that way)


Hydreigon25 said:


> my latest read is VM seems town to me at least for now, unless VM is faking and is actually a vig which would making him a wildcard ( not mafiia nor pure town )


why do you think he would be vig??


Vipera Magnifica said:


> I am a cop with an immunity to cult recruitment (I didn't want to say this because I'd rather the cult waste an action trying to recruit me)


is this the first time we've seen a repeated immunity tbh (rnp also claimed this in #39)
maybe this is a weird thing to be  about but it is interesting tbh
-m


----------



## tbh²

kyeugh said:


> do you think it's possible that koko is town?


urgh, maybe? i'm not really following this mech stuff hahaha but
rari and i were like, really townreading koko on tone yesterDay because (i think i said this already but) the paranoia e had felt ~towny and i liked that e mentioned feeling anxious post acnh, that like. sort of earnest reflectiveness out of em reads town as opposed to the quieter meticulous/sort of detached persona e had in cats that made me SR em early on.
we also believe in the w/v read from the way seshas voted em ... there are two possibilities, right (btw, this spec is independent from the Revelations reached)
a) w/w, seshas was distancing from koko
b) w/v, seshas was feeling out the wagon/wanted to shade a villa
we (and especially rari) think that option a makes a lot less sense than option b just because of how out of the blue seshas' vote on koko came. like ... it definitely isn't impossible that they're w/w, but i think assuming that seshas thought that it wouldn't pick up speed / go unnoticed is a bit more out of the way than "seshas just wanted to fuck with a villager." especially considering that it came early in d1, before anyone would've known what thread climate looked like

tbh we're TRing em to the point that we're like. throwing around the idea of em being a miller or something :'D

anyway, i think we figured something out that explains the storm/skylar redirection circus.


Trebek said:


> also hi! missed SoD bc was *busy drivin*
> 
> 
> Spoiler: me driving
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jk i followed all laws of the road


-m


----------



## tbh²

quickthoughts about the Situation before i sleep (lol 5am): as keith/everyone else has pointed out, the fact that we can't multitask night actions does not look great at all for vm lol. and of course, from our pov, he's only town if he's insane cop - which is a possibility, but see the prev sentence. we wanna wait for koko to claim/talk so we have that information as well.

keeping our vote where it is because we think some pressure on hydreigon is ideal/don't want that discourse to get entirely washed away lmfao. feelsbad that we didn't get to the case today but ... tomorrow is another day ... !

-m


----------



## Hydreigon25

does anybody find it weird that we haven't heard anything from Bluwiiikoon.  <- Just something to consider


----------



## storm

I... don't think bluwiikoon is in this game! you can check who is through the pinglist at the start of each phase, or on the first page of the thread


----------



## qenya

jesus christ I leave y'all alone for 12 hours and look what happens


----------



## Hydreigon25

Apparently spectators don't count i apologize for thinking they do


----------



## qenya

ok here are my abridged thoughts

kyeugh's explanation of why she was tunnelling so hard on me certainly makes a good deal of sense in hindsight. so either she is telling the truth about her role, or it's a lie she's been masterfully planning from the beginning of the game

VM's claims certainly pinged me as weird as soon as I saw them, for exactly the same reason as everyone else - I also have both a main ability and a oneshot ability that I'm not allowed to use on the same night. the thing is, if that applies to everyone, I don't see how scum!VM could fail to have known it? which is... also weird

obviously I maintain that I am town and don't know how kyeugh got her redcheck on me, if that is what happened. but I mean, if we're assuming one or more people are insane, might as well also consider the possibility that I'm an undeclared miller. would not be overly surprised given the degree of bastardry in this game tbh

considering these two pieces of information in combination
* kyeugh claims her n0 check on raritini redirected to me
* VM claims his n0 check on me was _not_ redirected
if both kyeugh + VM are telling the truth, Trebek's bus driver soft _cannot_ explain what happened

i think of all the checks claimed so far (other than the ones on me), the one I believe _least_ is red on raritini. she was my top townread yesterDay and hasn't really done anything to shake that. I also don't get why VM would have chosen to target a person near the top of several people's townpiles, rather than someone in more need of sorting (e.g. storm, jack, hydreigon)

I'm starting to forget stuff and my spreadsheet was really not designed to deal with redirectors (a mistake in hindsight) so I'm going to try to get it into a more intelligible format and see if I can divine anything else. back soon


----------



## qenya

kokorico said:


> i think of all the checks claimed so far (other than the ones on me), the one I believe _least_ is red on raritini.


actually, scratch that, I don't think there _have_ been any other checks claimed so far (although I still don't really believe the one on raritini)

@kyeugh who did you check n1?


----------



## qenya

assume VM is town

then the scumteam must be exactly seshas+rnp+h&m&f+{me or raritini depending on VM's sanity}+potentially one more

which I guess can't be fully disproven, but even if I were looking at it from outside I think it would be far from the most likely solution

for this reason I think I'm going *VM* for now


----------



## kyeugh

tbh² said:


> tbh we're TRing em to the point that we're like. throwing around the idea of em being a miller or something :'D


 hmmmm. i think it’s actually impossible for koko to be town from your pov unless i’m insane. i won’t push on you too hard but i think you should really try and wrap your head around the mech stuff if you can.


kokorico said:


> considering these two pieces of information in combination
> * kyeugh claims her n0 check on raritini redirected to me
> * VM claims his n0 check on me was _not_ redirected
> if both kyeugh + VM are telling the truth, Trebek's bus driver soft _cannot_ explain what happened


 i’m not convinced vm actually checked you, but strictly speaking, i’m not sure i follow this. if the redirector rerouted actions on mewtini into you, then this is the expected outcome.


kokorico said:


> @kyeugh who did you check n1?


 jack, but i was blocked.


----------



## Novae

*VM *for 1-shot power inconsistency

hydre knowing that blu is a spectator is like...???


----------



## kyeugh

Mist1422 said:


> hydre knowing that blu is a spectator is like...???


 meh he’s been liking loads of messages


----------



## kyeugh

mm, i’m kind of coming around to a vm lynch over a koko one. i’m gonna think on it for a bit.


----------



## Novae

kyeugh said:


> Mist1422 said:
> 
> 
> 
> hydre knowing that blu is a spectator is like...???
> 
> 
> 
> meh he’s been liking loads of messages
Click to expand...

ok that's fair but I'm paranoid that it's like they saw him in scum chat and thought he was a player

I'm probably just insane though


----------



## Vipera Magnifica

I am pretty certain I cannot be an insane cop just based on talking to Mawile about cop sanities and knowing he wouldn't do that... so I would have to assume that *kyeugh* is lying and just wants to discredit my results?

Also the "insane cop" argument wouldn't explain the n0 motion detector result coming up with a negative on Despicable Meme, so from my perspective, the scum team has to be exactly Despicable Meme/RNP/kyeugh

Now why am I not including tbh², who I have a redcheck on? Because DM/RNP/kyeugh/tbh/Seshas would be too many mafia for a game this size, and just based on the info I have, tbh² being targeted by a framer seems more likely than any of DM/RNP/kyeugh telling the truth... tbh I didn't think tbh seemed scummy at all tbh, but tbh I wanted to know if tbh was town for sure in case I was getting pocketed so that's why I targeted them last night tbh

Also, not sure why me being able to use a 1-shot power and role action on the same night is weird at all? Not all the roles work the same way and I'm sure Mawile realized there's no way I would ever elect _not_ to use my cop check just to use a motion detector ability. Honestly I should be pushing to yeet Despicable Meme again today but I'd rather we yeet kyeugh to prove she is scum and then prove DM/RNP are also scum. _That would essentially mean town wins._


----------



## Novae

If we want to go with the Potentially Boring Option we could always yeet Hydre and use my role to resolve the VM/kyeugh situation


----------



## Vipera Magnifica

Actually I just realized that Despicable Meme/RNP could be cultists, so there's still room for tbh² to be mafia


----------



## kyeugh

Mist1422 said:


> If we want to go with the Potentially Boring Option we could always yeet Hydre and use my role to resolve the VM/kyeugh situation


i don’t really feel as strongly about hydrei and am not really confident both you and i will survive the night in this case


----------



## RedneckPhoenix

except i'm immune to cults, jackass

*vipera magnifica* again


----------



## Novae

kyeugh said:


> Mist1422 said:
> 
> 
> 
> If we want to go with the Potentially Boring Option we could always yeet Hydre and use my role to resolve the VM/kyeugh situation
> 
> 
> 
> i don’t really feel as strongly about hydrei and am not really confident both you and i will survive the night in this case
Click to expand...

well if you die and flip town then VM is basically just confirmed scum and imagine me ever getting nightkilled on this site


----------



## Vipera Magnifica

RedneckPhoenix said:


> except i'm immune to cults, jackass
> 
> *vipera magnifica* again


No, Keith. You are the cults.

And then, Keith was was a cultist.


----------



## kyeugh

Mist1422 said:


> kyeugh said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mist1422 said:
> 
> 
> 
> If we want to go with the Potentially Boring Option we could always yeet Hydre and use my role to resolve the VM/kyeugh situation
> 
> 
> 
> i don’t really feel as strongly about hydrei and am not really confident both you and i will survive the night in this case
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> well if you die and flip town then VM is basically just confirmed scum and imagine me ever getting nightkilled on this site
Click to expand...

or we could simply flip vm now tbh. i don’t really see the benefit in doing it the long way.

gonna move to *vipera magnifica* i think.


----------



## RedneckPhoenix

Vipera Magnifica said:


> Also, not sure why me being able to use a 1-shot power and role action on the same night is weird at all? Not all the roles work the same way and I'm sure Mawile realized there's no way I would ever elect _not_ to use my cop check just to use a motion detector ability.


because thusly far NOBODY's role works the same way as yours


----------



## Vipera Magnifica

RedneckPhoenix said:


> Vipera Magnifica said:
> 
> 
> 
> Also, not sure why me being able to use a 1-shot power and role action on the same night is weird at all? Not all the roles work the same way and I'm sure Mawile realized there's no way I would ever elect _not_ to use my cop check just to use a motion detector ability.
> 
> 
> 
> because thusly far NOBODY's role works the same way as yours
Click to expand...

I already explained _why_ I can use mine that way and it makes the most sense from a setup perspective, I don't see how that's the big "gotcha" you think it is?


----------



## Novae

I think I'm already voting VM but in case I'm not *VM*

to be clear this is not me particularly doubling down on the vote I just forgot if I unvoted or not


----------



## RedneckPhoenix

if i'm mafia or cult why would i ever use MY one shot instead of my sensei ability? unless you think i'm lying about that


----------



## RedneckPhoenix

i do particularly enjoy how fitting mist's pfp is for this setup what with all the one-shots


----------



## Vipera Magnifica

RedneckPhoenix said:


> if i'm mafia or cult why would i ever use MY one shot instead of my sensei ability? unless you think i'm lying about that


I don't think you used it at all, it was just cult theater to make you both look towny


----------



## RedneckPhoenix

Vipera Magnifica said:


> RedneckPhoenix said:
> 
> 
> 
> if i'm mafia or cult why would i ever use MY one shot instead of my sensei ability? unless you think i'm lying about that
> 
> 
> 
> I don't think you used it at all, it was just cult theater to make you both look towny
Click to expand...

i can prove you wrong but i think i'm gonna wait till tomorrow


----------



## Vipera Magnifica

RedneckPhoenix said:


> Vipera Magnifica said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RedneckPhoenix said:
> 
> 
> 
> if i'm mafia or cult why would i ever use MY one shot instead of my sensei ability? unless you think i'm lying about that
> 
> 
> 
> I don't think you used it at all, it was just cult theater to make you both look towny
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> i can prove you wrong but i think i'm gonna wait till tomorrow
Click to expand...

How would you prove me wrong if it's a one-shot ability and you already claim to have used it?


----------



## RedneckPhoenix

also i'm not saying- like you're saying "i can use both of them at once because why would i choose one over the other" but the same thing goes for my role, why would i choose to ninjafy someone if i could clear them? but mine still has me choose one over the other


----------



## RedneckPhoenix

Vipera Magnifica said:


> RedneckPhoenix said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Vipera Magnifica said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RedneckPhoenix said:
> 
> 
> 
> if i'm mafia or cult why would i ever use MY one shot instead of my sensei ability? unless you think i'm lying about that
> 
> 
> 
> I don't think you used it at all, it was just cult theater to make you both look towny
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> i can prove you wrong but i think i'm gonna wait till tomorrow
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> How would you prove me wrong if it's a one-shot ability and you already claim to have used it?
Click to expand...

you know what? fuck it, we're doing it now

look at 1099, 1100, and 1101


----------



## RedneckPhoenix

first letter of every sentence


----------



## RedneckPhoenix

THAT was mist's gift to me


----------



## RedneckPhoenix

i was gonna wait till tomorrow to say this but i'm irrationally pissed at you today


----------



## Vipera Magnifica

recharged one-shot?

and you're calling _my_ ability inconsistent?


----------



## Vipera Magnifica

if we are to believe your ability can be recharged how is that any more plausible than me being able to use mine in addition to my night action?


----------



## RedneckPhoenix

mist gave me a gift last night which recharged my one shot ability. normally i wouldn't be able to use it twice


----------



## RedneckPhoenix

i now humbly request that the transporter, if not mafia, uses their ability on me


----------



## RedneckPhoenix

no, wait. what's it called in mafia. bus driver?


----------



## Hydreigon25

let's recap during day 1



Despicable Meme said:


> Hello hello everybody!
> 
> We got a fun little order last night, to paste this:
> 
> *The Flaming Scarlet Pupil of the Nonlinear Eternal Night-Bringer has cast a spell on me, and I am required to proclaim that my true alignment is that of the Town.*


What are everyone's thoughts about that. is that the Truth or B___S____ ? Just something to think about, 

Btw did any special actions happen during night 1 ?


----------



## Novae

transporter/bus driver are both used

also it could be a redirector not a transporter


----------



## RedneckPhoenix

hydre is trying to help von discredit me prolly

scumchat blowing up rn, i know von is a fast typer so if he had a response already he woulda said it


----------



## RedneckPhoenix

gotta go talk to his lil scum buddies. gotta collude and try n' make a big argument against me and have everyone defend that claim


----------



## Novae

also fwiw I should probably confirm that I did indeed give RNP the gift

not claiming whether that's my main or 1-shot ability but I will confirm that I noactioned n0


----------



## RedneckPhoenix

von has a nasty habit of being a silver-tongued rat whom somehow weasels his way out of votes so i'm just gonna badger him till eod


----------



## RedneckPhoenix

heh. mammal jokes.


----------



## Hydreigon25

RedneckPhoenix said:


> scumchat blowing up rn


how would you know that unless you personally have access to that chat @RedneckPhoenix

i mean something about that seems suspicions, because town would never have access to something they aren't a part of


----------



## kyeugh

RedneckPhoenix said:


> silver-tongued rat


 i think this is unnecessary tbh. :s

i was really straining myself to give hydreigon the benefit of the doubt up until now, but i feel like these recent posts align them with vm pretty much for sure, and i'm getting the impression they've got some kind of out-of-thread communication since their talking points seem to be somewhat in line. that might be me reading something that isn't there, but the vibes are bad.


----------



## RedneckPhoenix

Hydreigon25 said:


> RedneckPhoenix said:
> 
> 
> 
> scumchat blowing up rn
> 
> 
> 
> how would you know that unless you personally have access to that chat @RedneckPhoenix
> 
> i mean something about that seems suspicions, because town would never have access to something they aren't a part of
Click to expand...

...what?


----------



## RedneckPhoenix

i'm saying scumchat is prolly blowing up cuz y'all are prolly freaking the fuck out with vm getting voted by damn near everyone


----------



## RedneckPhoenix

kyeugh said:


> RedneckPhoenix said:
> 
> 
> 
> silver-tongued rat
> 
> 
> 
> i think this is unnecessary tbh. :s
Click to expand...

i couldn't think of another mammal joke


----------



## RedneckPhoenix

hydre, you're really reaching to make me look like scum


----------



## Hydreigon25

How would you know if anything is happening other than here unless you are either Mafia, Cult or a Spectator @RedneckPhoenix


----------



## RedneckPhoenix

don't you fucking ping me like you know me


----------



## storm

hydreigon, he was pretty clearly making a confident-sounding assumption - that's just what rnp's general tone is like! this line of argument looks... really desperate to single him out, and it's making you look much worse


----------



## RedneckPhoenix

you're really not getting that i'm saying what might be happening as opposed to what actually is huh.


----------



## Hydreigon25

RedneckPhoenix said:


> i'm saying scumchat is prolly blowing up cuz y'all are prolly freaking the fuck out with vm getting voted by damn near everyone


all of a sudden you change your tune and say that you assume it is, hmm....


----------



## storm

hey hydreigon, are you willing to share your night actions now?


----------



## RedneckPhoenix

hydre. respectfully, stop posting. it's not helping you out any.


----------



## Hydreigon25

I could be over thinking things


----------



## RedneckPhoenix

Hydreigon25 said:


> RedneckPhoenix said:
> 
> 
> 
> i'm saying scumchat is prolly blowing up cuz y'all are prolly freaking the fuck out with vm getting voted by damn near everyone
> 
> 
> 
> all of a sudden you change your tune and say that you assume it is, hmm....
Click to expand...

i didn't change my fuckin tune i clarified for the good of everyone so that nobody else grossly misunderstands my confidence like you did


----------



## RedneckPhoenix

i'm gonna go stream now


----------



## Vipera Magnifica

okay, first of all, in the universe where I am mafia and we're already down one Seshas, _why on earth_ would I stick my neck out like I'm doing right now to claim cop? Like, sure, it would have gotten the real cop to claim, but what would have happened once my redcheck or the other cop flipped town? Do you think I would have just _talked _my way out of that? Do you think I was just going to be like "Oh whoops looks like I was the insane cop"?

It makes a lot more sense for _kyeugh_ to the be the wolf counterclaiming me, because she very much had an incentive to do so. With the scum numbers as low as they probably are right now, they couldn't afford to lose another, and it would be especially bad if I figured out the entire scum team. I'm sure it was their plan to get me yeeted today and it's kinda obvious now how they're all kinda ganging up on me? Hell, if the town wants to yeet me today that would at least prove kyeugh/tbh/DM/RNP are anti-town when I flip town, but we can arrive at that conclusion a _lot faster_ if we just yeet kyeugh today.

idk what to make of the Mist/RNP interaction except RNP probably _did _have some kind of one-shot ability he used (to further the ends of the cult/mafia), and Mist, being able to recharge someone's one-shot ability, used it on RNP, thinking it would recharge the "force claim" ability to benefit the town. If I were v!Mist that's exactly what I'd do in that situation so it makes sense to me.


----------



## RedneckPhoenix

either you're realllllly tinfoiling or you're wolf and i haven't known you to tinfoil this hard


----------



## Vipera Magnifica

RedneckPhoenix said:


> von has a nasty habit of being a silver-tongued rat whom somehow weasels his way out of votes so i'm just gonna badger him till eod


I'll take that as a compliment for my wolf-game but sadly I am not wolf in this game (but you already know that)


----------



## qenya

kyeugh said:


> kokorico said:
> 
> 
> 
> considering these two pieces of information in combination
> * kyeugh claims her n0 check on raritini redirected to me
> * VM claims his n0 check on me was _not_ redirected
> if both kyeugh + VM are telling the truth, Trebek's bus driver soft _cannot_ explain what happened
> 
> 
> 
> i’m not convinced vm actually checked you, but strictly speaking, i’m not sure i follow this. if the redirector rerouted actions on mewtini into you, then this is the expected outcome.
Click to expand...

oh, I agree if there's a _redirector_, everything works

but a little bit up-thread tbh pointed out what she thought was trebek softing _bus driver_

if a _bus driver_ is why actions were screwed up, I would expect vm's check to be redirected onto raritini, as well as yours being redirected onto me

would be really helpful if trebek could tell us what he did n0, huh


----------



## RedneckPhoenix

react to this post if you-

nah that would be cheatinf


----------



## Novae

it's only cheating if you get caught :3


----------



## RedneckPhoenix

anyways tldr vote vm


----------



## kyeugh

i'm not really sure how, if you're actually town, you can genuinely be sure you're not insane.  your conclusions here—that tbh² and dm are anti-town—do not make any amount of sense outside the context of your checks.  tbh² had absolutely no reason in the world to help start and drive the wagon against a teammate d1, nor did dm, and your read on dm is dependent on the existence of a cult, for which there is also no evidence.  your koko read is directly contradicted by a check from another cop claim—both that and the presence of an additional alignment-checking role make sense only in a world in which you are insane.  i understand not immediately accepting the idea, but the fact that you aren't considering it at all strikes me as anti-town.  you're betting a lot on this for no solid reason.  if you are actually trying to solve for the right reasons, you should be trying to work through this information in good faith rather than doubling down and trying to shade the guy who claimed against you for no reason other than baseless security in your role's sanity.


----------



## qenya

let's live, for a moment, in the world where trebek is bus driver and VM is lying

we're thinking trebek switched me and raritini on n0

storm's n1 check on hydreigon got redirected to raritini, so presumably hydrei+raritini were trebek's n1 targets...

this might be a bit of a stretch, but is there anyone (other than VM) who targeted raritini last night and could confirm whether or not their action was redirected to hydreigon...? you don't need to say what the action is if you're concerned


----------



## Vipera Magnifica

RedneckPhoenix said:


> anyways tldr vote vm


if you're cult i really don't get why you're helping mafia but maybe my original theory is the correct one and you _are _mafia

boy is it going to be awkward for you when i get offed and flip town tonight


----------



## kyeugh

tbh i don't really think we should read too far into this trebek soft thing that could have very easily not been a soft until he comes in here to confirm it, especially since it's the only reason to assume a swap when all the rest of this information points to a simple redirect.


----------



## qenya

kyeugh said:


> until he comes in here to confirm it


bu- but he's dead


----------



## qenya

but, fair. honestly the strongest evidence we're going to have either way is whether or not the actions are still fucked up on n2


----------



## RedneckPhoenix

Vipera Magnifica said:


> RedneckPhoenix said:
> 
> 
> 
> anyways tldr vote vm
> 
> 
> 
> if you're cult i really don't get why you're helping mafia but maybe my original theory is the correct one and you _are _mafia
> 
> boy is it going to be awkward for you when i get offed and flip town tonight
Click to expand...

bOy iS iT GoNNa bE AwKWaRd shut up


----------



## kyeugh

kokorico said:


> kyeugh said:
> 
> 
> 
> until he comes in here to confirm it
> 
> 
> 
> bu- but he's dead
Click to expand...

 oh yeah! rip


----------



## RedneckPhoenix

_i'm _supposed to be the one who makes comments like that


----------



## Despicable Meme

*vm*

don't think i've felt this confident about a vote in a long long time


----------



## kyeugh

i was like, it's weird that he's reacting to stuff but hasn't come in to provide confirmation one way or the other yet.  lol.



RedneckPhoenix said:


> bOy iS iT GoNNa bE AwKWaRd shut up


----------



## RedneckPhoenix

i should reiterate that i genuinely care for each member of this community but when playing games i hate everyone who isn't helping me win


----------



## Despicable Meme

kokorico said:


> this might be a bit of a stretch, but is there anyone (other than VM) who targeted raritini last night and could confirm whether or not their action was redirected to hydreigon...? you don't need to say what the action is if you're concerned


we targeted hydre last night and what we expected to happen, didn't happen


----------



## Despicable Meme

wait shit i forgot that kyeughlogic makes koko scum maybe i shouldn't have responded to that ugh


----------



## kyeugh

Despicable Meme said:


> kokorico said:
> 
> 
> 
> this might be a bit of a stretch, but is there anyone (other than VM) who targeted raritini last night and could confirm whether or not their action was redirected to hydreigon...? you don't need to say what the action is if you're concerned
> 
> 
> 
> we targeted hydre last night and what we expected to happen, didn't happen
Click to expand...

 i'm guessing no, but would you have any way of knowing if it happened to someone else instead?


----------



## Despicable Meme

we would know if it like. went through on someone else successfully. but it didnt go through
for context the same events could have happened if we were roleblocked? i find that less likely though


----------



## kyeugh

Despicable Meme said:


> we would know if it like. went through on someone else successfully. but it didnt go through
> for context the same events could have happened if we were roleblocked? i find that less likely though


 huh.  if you were just redirected, though, wouldn't it appear to have gone through to you, since the action wasn't actually being cancelled?  i was definitely roleblocked as last night (i was told i got NO result, whereas i still received results when i was redirected n0), so if you were too it sounds like maybe there are multiple roleblockers at play


----------



## Vipera Magnifica

Despicable Meme said:


> we would know if it like. went through on someone else successfully. but it didnt go through
> for context the same events could have happened if we were roleblocked? i find that less likely though


either you're lying or raritini had an immunity to your action


----------



## Despicable Meme

yeah after i heard the redirector was at play i was thinking raritini had an immunity too, actually


----------



## Despicable Meme

its just. it would have been obvious if it went through.
i get that im being vague but its d2 and i dont want to show my hand that early


----------



## tbh²

kyeugh said:


> tbh i don't really think we should read too far into this trebek soft thing that could have very easily not been a soft until he comes in here to confirm it, especially since it's the only reason to assume a swap when all the rest of this information points to a simple redirect.


he said he had a soft, that is why we looked


Trebek said:


> oh i mean, softclaiming has happened, its just not cult related


also


Vipera Magnifica said:


> either you're lying or raritini had an immunity to your action


we don't have an immunity to stuff like what hmf is describing, idk what happened in this case tbqh

-m


----------



## Vipera Magnifica

tbh² said:


> we don't have an immunity to stuff like what hmf is describing, idk what happened in this case tbqh
> 
> -m


and how would you even know that when hmf hasn't said their role?


----------



## tbh²

kokorico said:


> I also don't get why VM would have chosen to target a person near the top of several people's townpiles, rather than someone in more need of sorting (e.g. storm, jack, hydreigon)


i kinda think if town, vm did it exactly because of what you describe at the end tbh. :'D


Vipera Magnifica said:


> I am pretty certain I cannot be an insane cop just based on talking to Mawile about cop sanities and knowing he wouldn't do that... so I would have to assume that *kyeugh* is lying and just wants to discredit my results?


i don't know why you're so certain about this, your flavor straight-up reads bastard


Vipera Magnifica said:


> Joking? You think I'm _joking_? My claim was 100% serious, and you know what? Having just consulted my role PM again... I see now that I also get the irl bank account details of all players in the mafia, starting on N1! Can't believe I missed that...


this was literally about a jokeclaim. i also think mawile would have thought of that considering the pretty clear context of the role
VM how certain are you that he wouldn't do that? what did he say that makes you think that?


Vipera Magnifica said:


> Also, not sure why me being able to use a 1-shot power and role action on the same night is weird at all? Not all the roles work the same way


because literally no one else is able to use their powers in this way, lol
sorry if you really are the one exception but


Vipera Magnifica said:


> Actually I just realized that Despicable Meme/RNP could be cultists, so there's still room for tbh² to be mafia


why would this make it EASIER for us to be mafia?? that only drives down the number of possible mafia because it would cut into town numbers too much (especially when the cult would get recruits)

-m


----------



## tbh²

Vipera Magnifica said:


> and how would you even know that when hmf hasn't said their role?


?????????????????????
because what we're immune to doesn't fit their description, at all
i can't really elaborate without claiming but idk how this is hard to accept
-m


----------



## tbh²

Vipera Magnifica said:


> okay, first of all, in the universe where I am mafia and we're already down one Seshas, _why on earth_ would I stick my neck out like I'm doing right now to claim cop? Like, sure, it would have gotten the real cop to claim, but what would have happened once my redcheck or the other cop flipped town? Do you think I would have just _talked _my way out of that?


but then this gets me, i don't know where rari is (probably not here) but this seems like such a weird play for mafia to make that i almost loop back around to VM town

-m


----------



## tbh²

tbh² said:


> Vipera Magnifica said:
> 
> 
> 
> I am a cop with an immunity to cult recruitment (I didn't want to say this because I'd rather the cult waste an action trying to recruit me)
> 
> 
> 
> is this the first time we've seen a repeated immunity tbh (rnp also claimed this in #39)
> maybe this is a weird thing to be  about but it is interesting tbh
> -m
Click to expand...

did anyone talk about this btw
-m


----------



## tbh²

tbh² said:


> Vipera Magnifica said:
> 
> 
> 
> and how would you even know that when hmf hasn't said their role?
> 
> 
> 
> ?????????????????????
> because what we're immune to doesn't fit their description, at all
> i can't really elaborate without claiming but idk how this is hard to accept
> -m
Click to expand...

holy shit wait
@Despicable Meme what if i told you i know what happened. can you guess at what went down then?

-m


----------



## tbh²

not via immunity
-m


----------



## kyeugh

tbh² said:


> Vipera Magnifica said:
> 
> 
> 
> okay, first of all, in the universe where I am mafia and we're already down one Seshas, _why on earth_ would I stick my neck out like I'm doing right now to claim cop? Like, sure, it would have gotten the real cop to claim, but what would have happened once my redcheck or the other cop flipped town? Do you think I would have just _talked _my way out of that?
> 
> 
> 
> but then this gets me, i don't know where rari is (probably not here) but this seems like such a weird play for mafia to make that i almost loop back around to VM town
> 
> -m
Click to expand...

 it is indeed weird, but if vm is mafia, he's made several ballsy gambits in this game.  the first was the thing "clearing" hydreigon—incidentally, when he came in to claim his red check on you, it was when under hydreigon was under a bunch of heat.  i do get vague feelings of desperate town from his recent posting, but at the same time, his refusal to consider any world except for that he is sane and i am lying does not strike me as particularly pro-town, so idk.


tbh² said:


> tbh² said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Vipera Magnifica said:
> 
> 
> 
> I am a cop with an immunity to cult recruitment (I didn't want to say this because I'd rather the cult waste an action trying to recruit me)
> 
> 
> 
> is this the first time we've seen a repeated immunity tbh (rnp also claimed this in #39)
> maybe this is a weird thing to be  about but it is interesting tbh
> -m
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> did anyone talk about this btw
> -m
Click to expand...

 don't think so.  but paired with the thing about him being able to use his one-shot power at the same time as his normal role, my impression is that it's just made up tbh.  gonna feel silly if he flips town but this is indeed a lot of  moments piling up here.  too many things we're expected to believe are true only of him.  hard to feel like he's not just making stuff up.


----------



## tbh²

tbh² said:


> holy shit wait
> @Despicable Meme what if i told you i know what happened. can you guess at what went down then?


@Despicable Meme just to be clear, i don't think you should reveal it if you do figure it out. but raritini got a notification that sorts this (and that lets us know your role), i hope you can guess at what it is in that case with this new info ... !



kyeugh said:


> it was when under hydreigon was under a bunch of heat.


this is exactly why rari and i wanted to at least keep our vote on hydrei for some sort of bookmark tbh but fuck it tbh, we'll remember to come back to this. *VM*
i am worried about that desperate town tone though + the "just flip me if it helps" mentality but i agree that this is a lot of things adding up. and i KNOW he's insane if he's telling the truth, i kinda think that he's backtracking about the oneshot hard, etc etc ...
if i'm getting pocketed by skylar here this sucks but none of this makes sense even if i try to make myself impartial here

-m


----------



## tbh²

one last note on VM's role
the insane cop role came up pretty prominently in MF's claim, when she faked it. mawile was (obvi) around for tvt and i think may as well have put in the role as some twisted homage

-m


----------



## JackPK

Vipera Magnifica said:


> Now why am I not including tbh², who I have a redcheck on? Because DM/RNP/kyeugh/tbh/Seshas would be too many mafia for a game this size, and just based on the info I have, tbh² being targeted by a framer seems more likely than any of DM/RNP/kyeugh telling the truth... tbh I didn't think tbh seemed scummy at all tbh, but tbh I wanted to know if tbh was town for sure in case I was getting pocketed so that's why I targeted them last night tbh


"I have a redcheck but I think they were framed" is a truly wild assertion



kyeugh said:


> i was really straining myself to give hydreigon the benefit of the doubt up until now, but i feel like these recent posts align them with vm pretty much for sure, and i'm getting the impression they've got some kind of out-of-thread communication since their talking points seem to be somewhat in line. that might be me reading something that isn't there, but the vibes are bad.


definitely agree. my scum team thoughts are currently vm/hydreigon/{koko?} where koko is either fellow scum or happened to land in the wildly unfortunate spot of simultaneously being a miller to kyeugh's inspection and also being used as convenient taking-you-down-with-me fodder by vm

at this point I'm thinking vm is the most likely to be mafia, but I'm keeping my vote on koko bc that's still the death that guarantees us the most useful info regardless of flip (if we yeet vm and he somehow flips green, we have NO IDEA what to do with his results because we don't know his sanity)


----------



## kyeugh

tbh² said:


> if i'm getting pocketed by skylar here this sucks but none of this makes sense even if i try to make myself impartial here


 hahaha.  fwiw, i'm not really deadset on burying vm here.  i think the chance that he's town but insane exists, and if he's willing to work under that pretense and go for a koko lynch to make heads or tails of all this, that'd be ideal (since i'm of the opinion that koko is mechanically somewhat more likely to be scum than he is, although i think eir tone is better).  but flipping vm is just as well to me.  if i survive the night, i'll have a pretty good idea about my own sanity anyway.


----------



## Vipera Magnifica

Do I even have to respond to the questions of someone I have a redcheck on?

I am _very positive_ that I am NOT an insane cop and I will personally send everyone in this game $100 if that turns out to be the case. Even bringing up the possibility of insane cop seems like a very scummy play to me and it's frustrating me that no one else is seeing that.

Butterfree, Keldeo, Emmy, whoever else hasn't voted yet can you _please_ vote kyeugh and stop the scum from piling up on your cop?


----------



## kyeugh

Vipera Magnifica said:


> Even bringing up the possibility of insane cop seems like a very scummy play to me and it's frustrating me that no one else is seeing that.


 why?


----------



## tbh²

Vipera Magnifica said:


> Do I even have to respond to the questions of someone I have a redcheck on?


are you for real right now lol


Vipera Magnifica said:


> Also the "insane cop" argument wouldn't explain the n0 motion detector result coming up with a negative on Despicable Meme, so from my perspective, the scum team has to be exactly Despicable Meme/RNP/kyeugh
> 
> Now why am I not including tbh², who I have a redcheck on? Because DM/RNP/kyeugh/tbh/Seshas would be too many mafia for a game this size, and just based on the info I have, tbh² being targeted by a framer seems more likely than any of DM/RNP/kyeugh telling the truth...


from my pov you are either insane or literally a wolf, and i'm still trying to work with you. can you please do the same tbh

-m


----------



## Vipera Magnifica

JackPK said:


> "I have a redcheck but I think they were framed" is a truly wild assertion


well I don't know... I was just trying to think how it could be possible that Seshas/HMF/RNP/kyeugh/raritini could _all_ be scum when 5 out of 15 scum players is tremendously one-sided.

That was before I realized HMF/RNP cult and Seshas/kyeugh/raritini mafia made a lot more sense.


----------



## tbh²

you don't get to say "oh wait, i don't want to include them on my hypoteam, because maybe they were framed!" and then ignore my posting lol
-m


----------



## RedneckPhoenix

you'll send a hundo bucks to everyone if you're an insane cop? sounds like something someone who's not a cop at all would say


----------



## RedneckPhoenix

even if you're not scum, the fact that you're so vehemently trying to say that this MUST be what's happening and refusing to respond to questioning makes you not useful to the town if you are a cop


----------



## RedneckPhoenix

even /i/ can admit when i'm wrong. and i was raised by giant assholes


----------



## tbh²

Vipera Magnifica said:


> Even bringing up the possibility of insane cop seems like a very scummy play to me and it's frustrating me that no one else is seeing that.


?????
i am bringing it up because i want to think of ways that you could be town tbh!! i don't know how that's scummy, especially when there are flavor + TVT metagame reasons for me to wonder

-m


----------



## RedneckPhoenix

i'm actually really strapped for cash i really hope von is an insane cop


----------



## Vipera Magnifica

RedneckPhoenix said:


> you'll send a hundo bucks to everyone if you're an insane cop? sounds like something someone who's not a cop at all would say


oh my god

I literally asked Mawile if cop sanities were a thing in this game and he said he doesn't like ever using them (that was my first thought too when I got a redcheck on raritini)

either lynch rari or skylar today or yeet me then vig/yeet them both when i flip town. i don't even care anymore.


----------



## kyeugh

Vipera Magnifica said:


> I literally asked Mawile if cop sanities were a thing in this game and he said he doesn't like ever using them (that was my first thought too when I got a redcheck on raritini)


 wait, you asked him this after you got your role?


----------



## Vipera Magnifica

kyeugh said:


> Vipera Magnifica said:
> 
> 
> 
> I literally asked Mawile if cop sanities were a thing in this game and he said he doesn't like ever using them (that was my first thought too when I got a redcheck on raritini)
> 
> 
> 
> wait, you asked him this after you got your role?
Click to expand...

no, i asked last night


----------



## tbh²

this is maybe awkward since i'm affected tbh but
would he have directly said 'yes' even if you were insane tbh?
-m


----------



## RedneckPhoenix

that's, like, asking your dad how babies are made


----------



## kyeugh

Vipera Magnifica said:


> kyeugh said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Vipera Magnifica said:
> 
> 
> 
> I literally asked Mawile if cop sanities were a thing in this game and he said he doesn't like ever using them (that was my first thought too when I got a redcheck on raritini)
> 
> 
> 
> wait, you asked him this after you got your role?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> no, i asked last night
Click to expand...

 last night is after the game started, so yes, that means you asked after you received your role.  why on earth would you believe anything mawile tells you about your own role, especially a question to which giving a reliable answer would ruin the point, in a game where it's established the gm can't be trusted? o_o that's really why you're so sure you're not insane?


----------



## RedneckPhoenix

is he gonna tell the truth? or is he gonna give you a sideways answer and say he doesn't know?


----------



## qenya

Vipera Magnifica said:


> I literally asked Mawile if cop sanities were a thing in this game and he said he doesn't like ever using them (that was my first thought too when I got a redcheck on raritini)


very much doubt this tbh

nearly every question I've asked mawile about my role has been answered with calculated vagueness


----------



## RedneckPhoenix

even flavor-wise, it doesn't make sense. if you're insane and ask... god? yourself? what is the gm in this situation idk. if you ask your inner self if you're insane are they gonna say yes


----------



## kyeugh




----------



## Vipera Magnifica

explain the one-shot ability then

do you think i'm some kind of insane motion detector as well?

of course the actual scumteam wants to bring up the idea of cop sanities just to discredit me. the last time an insane cop was even suggested was MF's fakeclaim in TVT mafia and we all know how that turned out


----------



## tbh²

i can't wait for the other head to get back here and tell me what to think. because i am Lost
vm still sounds like frustrated!town recently but i'm just so ... ?!?!?!
and why did he not reveal that _this _was why he was so sure of his sanity before??

-m


----------



## tbh²

Vipera Magnifica said:


> explain the one-shot ability then


i don't think it's real tbh
multitasking doesn't seem to be allowed tbh

**if anyone CAN use their oneshot/regular ability at the same time, please speak up tbh

-m


----------



## RedneckPhoenix

i mean, if you're telling the truth about the motion detector- and that's a BIG if- it could also be insane, innit, explaining why my visit didn't show up. but occam's razor you're lying out your ass


----------



## tbh²

Vipera Magnifica said:


> of course the actual scumteam wants to bring up the idea of cop sanities just to discredit me


if the actual scumteam saw this and went "oh fuck, it's the cop" why would they not simply kill you overNight tbh instead of some people, i.e. ME who got 'redchecked,' trying to finagle ways that you could _still be town_

-m


----------



## Vipera Magnifica

tbh² said:


> and why did he not reveal that _this _was why he was so sure of his sanity before??


i did though???


Vipera Magnifica said:


> I am pretty certain I cannot be an insane cop just based on talking to Mawile about cop sanities and knowing he wouldn't do that... so I would have to assume that *kyeugh* is lying and just wants to discredit my results?


----------



## RedneckPhoenix

that was toDay tho wasnt it


----------



## tbh²

that was vague reason tbqh

-m


----------



## RedneckPhoenix

not even toDay just today


----------



## kyeugh

Vipera Magnifica said:


> explain the one-shot ability then
> 
> do you think i'm some kind of insane motion detector as well?
> 
> of course the actual scumteam wants to bring up the idea of cop sanities just to discredit me. the last time an insane cop was even suggested was MF's fakeclaim in TVT mafia and we all know how that turned out


 your one shot ability is probably fine, idk? i’m kind of bewildered that you really believe you’re not insane because you... asked the gm, who IMPLIED no. the entire point of the mechanic is that it’s bastardy, and that you don’t know. if you’re insane, what was he supposed to say? even clamming up and refusing comment is an answer of its own.

“someone fake claimed insane” is also really not a good reason to believe sanity can never be a mechanic again.


----------



## tbh²

tbh² said:


> that was vague reason tbqh
> 
> -m


and still doesn't really account for the fact that you're so unwilling to consider alt worlds even when i think a lot of things are pointing at you being insane

if you are town can you please humor everyone and try to work with these prospects. you even admit that your checks came as a surprise to you

-m


----------



## tbh²

kokorico said:


> nearly every question I've asked mawile about my role has been answered with calculated vagueness


we can also corroborate that gm-communication is really clearly intentionally vague this game tbh

-m


----------



## kyeugh

yeah, “trying to discredit” you is kind of the opposite of what’s happening here—everyone’s trying to figure out a way make to make sense of your results and rationalize how you might be telling the truth here, and you’re insisting that it’s impossible because you’re taking the gm at his word about an intently bastardy mechanic and frantically shading everyone speculating about it. ?_?

anyway, this is weird but i’m pretty sure *kokorico* is once again the move for now.


----------



## Vipera Magnifica

this isn't even the first time i've talked to mawile about bastardy mechanics like cop sanities (we talked about this when he was spectating tarot mafia)

if i was even the slightest bit unsure about my sanity why would i pledge to give everyone money? kyeugh can attest to me donating the 30 dollars i said i would in cats mafia if i turned out to be wrong



tbh² said:


> and still doesn't really account for the fact that you're so unwilling to consider alt worlds even when i think a lot of things are pointing at you being insane
> 
> if you are town can you please humor everyone and try to work with these prospects. you even admit that your checks came as a surprise to you


_no_ i'm not letting you talk your way out of a redcheck and yeet kokorico who is confirmed town


----------



## RedneckPhoenix

we don't KNOW if e's confirmed because you might be INSANE


----------



## tbh²

Vipera Magnifica said:


> _no_ i'm not letting you talk your way out of a redcheck and yeet kokorico who is confirmed town


what are you talking about
from my pov there are two cops, either counterclaimed or one insane, and i'm confirmed town to myself
why are you insisting that kokorico is confirmed town to the thread when e _isn't, _we don't know that

-m


----------



## tbh²

*kokorico*

-m


----------



## Keldeo

Sorry pretty overwhelmed / not processing stuff well right now, I'll be here in the evening to do catchup for real.



RedneckPhoenix said:


> Vipera Magnifica said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RedneckPhoenix said:
> 
> 
> 
> anyways tldr vote vm
> 
> 
> 
> if you're cult i really don't get why you're helping mafia but maybe my original theory is the correct one and you _are _mafia
> 
> boy is it going to be awkward for you when i get offed and flip town tonight
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> bOy iS iT GoNNa bE AwKWaRd shut up
Click to expand...

Aw cmon man, you don't gotta be like that.


----------



## kyeugh

tbh, this is kind of circular. vm isn’t going to budge on this, but he’s only got one vote, and as long as the rest of us can agree on what to do, it’s fine. i still think koko is the move for the time being, since the odds that vm is insane but v aren’t bad imo.


----------



## RedneckPhoenix

*vm *still


----------



## RedneckPhoenix

i had panda express for lunch and my fortune says "a recent discovery will bring about great friendship" so like if we go along with my "vm is lying about one-shots and normal actions" discovery he will be killed, flip mafia, and we will all be friends


----------



## Vipera Magnifica

tbh² said:


> Vipera Magnifica said:
> 
> 
> 
> _no_ i'm not letting you talk your way out of a redcheck and yeet kokorico who is confirmed town
> 
> 
> 
> what are you talking about
> from my pov there are two cops, either counterclaimed or one insane, and i'm confirmed town to myself
> why are you insisting that kokorico is confirmed town to the thread when e _isn't, _we don't know that
> 
> -m
Click to expand...

do you really honestly truly think the two wagons on day one were w/w?

i should have been vaguely side-eyeing everyone on the kokorico wagon tbh


----------



## RedneckPhoenix

you're not the boss of the town von you're barely staying away from being voted out


----------



## tbh²

Vipera Magnifica said:


> do you really honestly truly think the two wagons on day one were w/w?
> 
> i should have been vaguely side-eyeing everyone on the kokorico wagon tbh


1. i don't! i have said over and over that i'm conflicted because rari and i were TRing koko off of d1! but the mech seems to work out a certain way so i'm just going to vibe/try to comb back through this with rari when she comes back
2. town does not always vote correctly tbh ??

-m


----------



## RedneckPhoenix

odds are i'm gonna either die or get roleblocked toNight but tbf that would probably be more useful seeing as some might still see my forced claims as scum theater


----------



## Vipera Magnifica

yeet either kyeugh or me, either way you get several confirmed alignments out of it

there is no way kokorico is scum and if you vote for koko you're only helping the mafia


----------



## kyeugh

i’m not too sure why you would die tonight tbh. your role isn’t that useful and your death would pretty much confirm dm.


----------



## kyeugh

Vipera Magnifica said:


> yeet either kyeugh or me, either way you get several confirmed alignments out of it
> 
> there is no way kokorico is scum and if you vote for koko you're only helping the mafia


what does anyone learn if either of us flip town?


----------



## tbh²

Vipera Magnifica said:


> there is no way kokorico is scum


how ... is this ... the case. isn't this only true from your pov with a greencheck??
lynching within {VM, skylar} doesn't actually give us anything i think, off of pure mech, because y'all could very well BOTH be townies/<some type> cops.

-m


----------



## Vipera Magnifica

and i'm certain _i _will either die today or tonight and my flip is going to pretty much solve the entire game so i'm okay with that


----------



## Vipera Magnifica

obviously though i'd prefer if we just yeeted skylar and she flipped scum


----------



## kyeugh

your flip won’t solve anything unless it’s red because it doesn’t confirm your sanity. the best thing we can do is flip koko (our shared check) and work out the implications from there.


----------



## RedneckPhoenix

kyeugh said:


> i’m not too sure why you would die tonight tbh. your role isn’t that useful and your death would pretty much confirm dm.


like i said my one-shot has been recharged and i can use it to clear or implicate someone again


----------



## RedneckPhoenix

on a somewhat unrelated note i asked if, when roleblocked, my one-shot charge would go away, and i was told "it depends but also not gonna tell you"


----------



## RedneckPhoenix

still feeling a vm vote today


----------



## tbh²

RedneckPhoenix said:


> still feeling a vm vote today


i understand tbh but i think skylar is right, flipping either 'cop' doesn't give us anything unless one flips red. at least koko is the check they have in common. hh. honestly if we knew we had a vig i'd say that this would be an ideal situation so we could talk about, like, hydreigon or something and have skylar/VM sorted that way

-m


----------



## Vipera Magnifica

I'm kinda tired of arguing with all the players I am pretty sure are scum so I'm going to wait for like Keldeo or Butterfree or someone to give an outsider's read of the situation

_but come on_, cop claims with a redcheck -> scum counterclaims cop -> scum try to pain me as insane cop
it's so obviously a scum ploy and i feel like i'm wasting my time trying to argue to the wolves that there is no cop sanity


----------



## tbh²

tbh² said:


> hydreigon or something *in the meantime and have skylar/VM sorted overnight


----------



## tbh²

Vipera Magnifica said:


> it's so obviously a scum ploy and i feel like i'm wasting my time trying to argue to the wolves that there is no cop sanity


still do not know why you're bent on "anyone trying to figure out ways i could be town, and suggesting an insane cop role to that end" = scum
as i said if i were scum and i thought you were cop, i would simply nk you tbh. not go through this long conversation purely for the cred of being 'charitable' especially when you're seeing this rationalization as scummy somehow?? and when even skylar isn't saying "meh let's lynch VM"

-m


----------



## Vipera Magnifica

Vipera Magnifica said:


> I'm kinda tired of arguing with all the players I am pretty sure are scum so I'm going to wait for like Keldeo or Butterfree or someone to give an outsider's read of the situation
> 
> _but come on_, cop claims with a redcheck -> scum counterclaims cop -> scum try to pain me as insane cop
> it's so obviously a scum ploy and i feel like i'm wasting my time trying to argue to the wolves that there is no cop sanity


and of course scum's idea on how to resolve this is "yeet the one guy who the real cop cleared as town"

what are they going to do when koko flips town, are they going to make the case that _skylar_ is an insane cop?


----------



## Novae

for what it's worth

I am fully available to be tipped into a hydre wagon


----------



## qenya

tbh² said:


> as i said if i were scum and i thought you were cop, i would simply nk you tbh.


hol up

haven't really been paying attention for the last little while cos I'm getting ready for 2r1b daystart, but didn't VM only announce his "redcheck" on you _today_? there wouldn't have been a chance to nightkill him


----------



## tbh²

Vipera Magnifica said:


> and of course scum's idea on how to resolve this is "yeet the one guy who the real cop cleared as town"


*we don't know that you're the real cop*
_*we are trying to figure out who the real cop is*_

omg



Mist1422 said:


> for what it's worth
> 
> I am fully available to be tipped into a hydre wagon


what are you thinking about hydre right now? i remember you saying that you got good vibes off of their d1, have you changed a bit on that read?

-m


----------



## tbh²

kokorico said:


> tbh² said:
> 
> 
> 
> as i said if i were scum and i thought you were cop, i would simply nk you tbh.
> 
> 
> 
> hol up
> 
> haven't really been paying attention for the last little while cos I'm getting ready for 2r1b daystart, but didn't VM only announce his "redcheck" on you _today_? there wouldn't have been a chance to nightkill him
Click to expand...

as in scum would nk him tonight

my conversation here would purely be a huge gambit to save myself

-m


----------



## Despicable Meme

tbh² said:


> tbh² said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Vipera Magnifica said:
> 
> 
> 
> and how would you even know that when hmf hasn't said their role?
> 
> 
> 
> ?????????????????????
> because what we're immune to doesn't fit their description, at all
> i can't really elaborate without claiming but idk how this is hard to accept
> -m
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> holy shit wait
> @Despicable Meme what if i told you i know what happened. can you guess at what went down then?
> 
> -m
Click to expand...


if theres some stuff at play i think i could totally pick up what you put down. a notif of some kind?


----------



## qenya

tbh² said:


> kokorico said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> tbh² said:
> 
> 
> 
> as i said if i were scum and i thought you were cop, i would simply nk you tbh.
> 
> 
> 
> hol up
> 
> haven't really been paying attention for the last little while cos I'm getting ready for 2r1b daystart, but didn't VM only announce his "redcheck" on you _today_? there wouldn't have been a chance to nightkill him
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> as in scum would nk him tonight
> 
> my conversation here would purely be a huge gambit to save myself
Click to expand...

oic

that makes much more sense


----------



## tbh²

tbh² said:


> as i said if i were scum and i thought you were cop, i would simply nk you tbh. not go through this long conversation


@kokorico i kinda said it in the rest of this quote hahaha. glossed over the fact that i guess i could be wagoned but like, by the time i got here i wasn't even a leading wagon so that wasn't really on my mind at all.

why not just lay low and get rid of vm as opposed to very publicly embroiling myself in this (+ vm posits that skylar and i are w/w. then we would both pretty much be doing this whole thing to save me)

-m


----------



## Despicable Meme

mmmmmmmmm koko is probably the move for today but i want to talk to my other head first before flip flopping
anyone got a votecount?


----------



## tbh²

Despicable Meme said:


> if theres some stuff at play i think i could totally pick up what you put down. a notif of some kind?


yep, notification that lets me know what action you took

-m


----------



## Despicable Meme




----------



## Despicable Meme

how did it not go through though?


----------



## Vipera Magnifica

tbh² said:


> Vipera Magnifica said:
> 
> 
> 
> it's so obviously a scum ploy and i feel like i'm wasting my time trying to argue to the wolves that there is no cop sanity
> 
> 
> 
> still do not know why you're bent on "anyone trying to figure out ways i could be town, and suggesting an insane cop role to that end" = scum
> as i said if i were scum and i thought you were cop, i would simply nk you tbh. not go through this long conversation purely for the cred of being 'charitable' especially when you're seeing this rationalization as scummy somehow?? and when even skylar isn't saying "meh let's lynch VM"
> 
> -m
Click to expand...

it honestly strikes me exactly as something you would do


----------



## Mawile

Despicable Meme said:


> anyone got a votecount?


i'll write an official one up in like an hour or so


----------



## Despicable Meme

Mawile said:


> Despicable Meme said:
> 
> 
> 
> anyone got a votecount?
> 
> 
> 
> i'll write an official one up in like an hour or so
Click to expand...

thanks papa


----------



## Despicable Meme

wait, raritini. don't tell me. omg.
do you understand the conspiracy theory i might be moved to?


----------



## tbh²

Despicable Meme said:


> how did it not go through though?


it did go through to me; can you think of what would have nullified it on my end?



Vipera Magnifica said:


> it honestly strikes me exactly as something you would do


how lol
my wolfmeta is "acting town"

-m


----------



## tbh²

Despicable Meme said:


> wait, raritini. don't tell me. omg.
> do you understand the conspiracy theory i might be moved to?


i do not tbh!
-m


----------



## Novae

tbh² said:


> what are you thinking about hydre right now? i remember you saying that you got good vibes off of their d1, have you changed a bit on that read?


it has officially passed out of too wack to be scum to "oh wait this could totally be scum wack I'm dumb"


----------



## kyeugh

Vipera Magnifica said:


> what are they going to do when koko flips town, are they going to make the case that _skylar_ is an insane cop?


if koko flips town then y’all can lynch me if it makes everyone feel better, idrc. but in that event, when i flip green everyone will realize that i was indeed insane cop, and this entire thing will look silly. much more likely that koko just flips red though.

anyway, town is ahead right now. we lynched scum d1 after no kill on n0. it’s shouldn’t really be the end of the world to lynch koko rn even from your perspective, as it would at least clear you.


----------



## Despicable Meme

OHHHHHHHH


----------



## Despicable Meme

LIGHTBULB MOMENT


----------



## tbh²

Despicable Meme said:


> OHHHHHHHH


ily king!
-m


----------



## Despicable Meme

but also think about my tinfoil conspiracy theory from a moment from my end and see if you puzzle anything out


----------



## Despicable Meme

ily2


----------



## tbh²

Mist1422 said:


> tbh² said:
> 
> 
> 
> what are you thinking about hydre right now? i remember you saying that you got good vibes off of their d1, have you changed a bit on that read?
> 
> 
> 
> it has officially passed out of too wack to be scum to "oh wait this could totally be scum wack I'm dumb"
Click to expand...

do you have any thoughts on the vm/hydreigon alignment thing?
also, i guess you would maybe know the best among us. do you think wolf!seshas would have talked about scumbuddy hydreigon in the way that she did? or do you think it's more unlikely 

-m


----------



## Despicable Meme

Despicable Meme said:


> but also think about my tinfoil conspiracy theory from a moment from my end and see if you puzzle anything out


or dont worry about it. ill tell you sometime haha


----------



## Novae

tbh² said:


> Mist1422 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> tbh² said:
> 
> 
> 
> what are you thinking about hydre right now? i remember you saying that you got good vibes off of their d1, have you changed a bit on that read?
> 
> 
> 
> it has officially passed out of too wack to be scum to "oh wait this could totally be scum wack I'm dumb"
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> do you have any thoughts on the vm/hydreigon alignment thing?
> also, i guess you would maybe know the best among us. do you think wolf!seshas would have talked about scumbuddy hydreigon in the way that she did? or do you think it's more unlikely
> 
> -m
Click to expand...

I literally don't remember the last time I read seshas correctly without mechanical info helping me out

so I am unfortunately not an expert also what vm/hydre thing I'm stupid


----------



## Despicable Meme

Mist1422 said:


> so I am unfortunately not an expert also what vm/hydre thing I'm stupid


ur not stupid good friend! that was just me saying that i think they're w/w and vm orchestrated the lie detector thing as scum theatre right as hydre was getting heat. and came in w a redcheck on tbh too


----------



## tbh²

Mist1422 said:


> so I am unfortunately not an expert also what vm/hydre thing I'm stupid


iso hydreigon's most recent posts. there was some talk about how vm/hydreigon are likely aligned since hydreigon has been devoting most of their posting to townreading vm for ?reasons? (i will add that this comes after they found him 'suspect' d1, for a post in d2, and then flipped)
eg this post


kyeugh said:


> i was really straining myself to give hydreigon the benefit of the doubt up until now, but i feel like these recent posts align them with vm pretty much for sure, and i'm getting the impression they've got some kind of out-of-thread communication since their talking points seem to be somewhat in line.


do you think that this is valid, and what would you read into it given however you feel about vm

-m


----------



## tbh²

Despicable Meme said:


> that was just me saying that i think they're w/w and vm orchestrated the lie detector thing as scum theatre right as hydre was getting heat. and came in w a redcheck on tbh too


oh lmfao! skylar and i already sort of implied that as well tbh, i didn't think that's what you were hinting at because i'd mentioned it in here a bit earlier
-m


----------



## Despicable Meme

No no that was me stealing what you guys said in order to sum it for mist


----------



## Novae

appreciated

I'll read over it in a little bit


----------



## tbh²

i'll shut up about vm after this probably but i was thinking that big-gambit play seemed ~town for him because of the vig thing in cats but now i'm thinking that maybe it's NAI because he did make some level of big plays in tvt even though he was lurkier on the whole, i'll have to rethink about the ramifications though because i do think it's sort of ?! for mafia to come out of the gate with fakechecks - one of them on someone getting townread - when his flip would immediately implicate his greencheck

i am interested in hearing from him on what about a (skylar/me w/w team making an insane cop gambit, in the process entertaining that he could be town, and willingly voting away from VM despite being able to just coast on the counterclaim) makes him view us as scum, or why he thinks that's "exactly something" that i would do given my wolf games and meta. i know that maybe i'm biased since i am me, but i really don't see it in my scum appearances so far

-m


----------



## RedneckPhoenix

i still think we should just vote vm today i have Plans for tonight


----------



## RedneckPhoenix

someone protect me from roleblocks somehow pls


----------



## tbh²

Mist1422 said:


> appreciated
> 
> I'll read over it in a little bit


lmk what you think, i'm sort of afraid of tunneling hydreigon but i think i'll actually get the chance to start looking at them in a few hours now that This Thing has blown over a bit for now. definitely want to talk about it with you then

-m


----------



## Mawile

*Vote History:*


Spoiler



JackPK voted Hydreigon25 (#933)
tbh^2 voted Hydreigon25 (#941)
Despicable Meme voted Hydreigon25 (#970)
kyeugh voted Hydreigon25 (#979)
RedneckPhoenix voted Hydreigon25 (#981)
Vipera Magnifica voted tbh^2 (#999)
Mist1422 voted tbh^2 (#1004)
JackPK voted tbh^2 (#1006)
JackPK voted Hydreigon25 (#1022)
kyeugh voted Vipera Magnifica (#1025)
Mist1422 voted nobody (#1027)
kyeugh voted kokorico (#1036)
RedneckPhoenix voted kokorico (#1038)
JackPK voted nobody (#1041)
RedneckPhoenix voted Vipera Magnifica (#1071)
Despicable Meme voted Vipera Magnifica (#1076)
JackPK voted kokorico (#1102)
Despicable Meme voted kokorico (#1103)
RedneckPhoenix voted kokorico (#1104)
kokorico voted Vipera Magnifica (#1119)
Mist1422 voted Vipera Magnifica (#1121)
Vipera Magnifica voted kyeugh (#1125)
RedneckPhoenix voted Vipera Magnifica (#1129)
kyeugh voted Vipera Magnifica (#1132)
Mist1422 voted Vipera Magnifica (#1135)
Despicable Meme voted Vipera Magnifica (#1190)
tbh^2 voted Vipera Magnifica (#1210)
kyeugh voted kokorico (#1246)
tbh^2 voted kokorico (#1250)
RedneckPhoenix voted Vipera Magnifica (#1253)



*Active Votes (+ post numbers):*


Spoiler



JackPK voted kokorico (#1102)
kokorico voted Vipera Magnifica (#1119)
Vipera Magnifica voted kyeugh (#1125)
Mist1422 voted Vipera Magnifica (#1135)
Despicable Meme voted Vipera Magnifica (#1190)
kyeugh voted kokorico (#1246)
tbh^2 voted kokorico (#1250)
RedneckPhoenix voted Vipera Magnifica (#1253)



*Vote Count:*
Vipera Magnifica (4): kokorico (#1119), Mist1422 (#1135), Despicable Meme (#1190), RedneckPhoenix (#1253)
kokorico (3): JackPK (#1102), kyeugh (#1246), tbh^2 (#1250)
kyeugh (1): Vipera Magnifica (#1125)
(Nonvoters: Keldeo, storm, IndigoEmmy, Trebek, Butterfree, Seshas, Hydreigon25)


----------



## Mawile

whoops forgot to cross off Trebek and Seshas from nonvoters cause they're dead

as per usual, let me know if i missed a vote


----------



## JackPK

Mawile said:


> whoops forgot to cross off Trebek and Seshas from nonvoters cause they're dead


----------



## tbh²

jack i am v curious to hear about your thoughts on everything too
ty for cranking up raritini's reaction score tbh
-m


----------



## Mawile

Mawile said:


> whoops forgot to cross off Trebek and Seshas from nonvoters cause they're dead
> 
> as per usual, let me know if i missed a vote


also i have a script now so all i have to do is plug in the vote history and it does the whole post


----------



## Hydreigon25

For what it's worth i didn't write VM off completely ( i still suspect him but I've been taking a wait & see approach ) before determine if VM was actually town or mafia )


----------



## JackPK

tbh² said:


> jack i am v curious to hear about your thoughts on everything too
> ty for cranking up raritini's reaction score tbh
> -m


my thoughts basically haven't changed from what I've said earlier? koko is the yeet that gets us the most guaranteed info, vm is probably fakeclaiming mafia but possibly insane cop, hydreigon probably w/w with vm

if koko flips red -> vig should kill hydreigon; doctor should heal kyeugh; kyeugh should witness vm; this gives us the best information to judge whether vm is mafia or insane cop for purposes of the next day's yeet

if koko flips green -> vig should kill tbh; doctor should heal vm; vm should inspect kyeugh; this gives us the best information to judge whether kyeugh is mafia or insane witness for purposes of the next day's yeet

if vm flips red -> vig should kill koko; doctor should kill kyeugh; koko's flip should allow us to judge kyeugh's sanity

if vm flips green -> no immediate useful information, but then IF vig kills tbh, this should in theory determine kyeugh's sanity, _but that's two dead villagers where every other scenario gets us only one dead villager_


----------



## JackPK

JackPK said:


> if vm flips green -> no immediate useful information, but then IF vig kills tbh, this should in theory determine kyeugh's sanity, _but that's two dead villagers where every other scenario gets us only one dead villager_


*_potentially _two dead villagers, rather


----------



## JackPK

JackPK said:


> _every other scenario gets us only one dead villager_


_maximum _of only one dead villager, wow, I am sloppy when I'm rushing trying to figure out cause and effect logic


----------



## Novae

JackPK said:


> doctor should kill kyeugh


----------



## RedneckPhoenix

"Very well, that's how I lost my medical license."


----------



## RedneckPhoenix

you didn't all have to disappear at once


----------



## JackPK

RNP you're the only person left on the internet. All the rest of us abruptly died.

--------

This out-of-office message was sent automatically by Outlook. If you received this message in error, click here.


----------



## Novae

i'm not dead!

well, dead inside, but--


----------



## Mawile

Everybody on the internet is dead except you.


----------



## Mawile

Mawile said:


> Everybody on the internet is dead except you.


Trebek is surprisingly reactive for a dead person.


----------



## RedneckPhoenix

JackPK said:


> RNP you're the only person left on the internet. All the rest of us abruptly died.
> 
> --------
> 
> This out-of-office message was sent automatically by Outlook. If you received this message in error, click here.


did you know you can preview links? it's how i avoid these things


----------



## Hydreigon25

Mist1422 said:


> i'm not dead!


i'm not dead either ​


----------



## Novae

RedneckPhoenix said:


> JackPK said:
> 
> 
> 
> RNP you're the only person left on the internet. All the rest of us abruptly died.
> 
> --------
> 
> This out-of-office message was sent automatically by Outlook. If you received this message in error, click here.
> 
> 
> 
> did you know you can preview links? it's how i avoid these things
Click to expand...

I just assume every unidentified link is a rickroll until proven otherwise tbh


----------



## RedneckPhoenix

Hydreigon25 said:


> Mist1422 said:
> 
> 
> 
> i'm not dead!
> 
> 
> 
> i'm not dead either
Click to expand...

stop with the font colors


----------



## Despicable Meme

I saw the bit.ly link, i KNEW what i was in for, and i clicked it just to jam out. I'm having an excellent time


----------



## Despicable Meme

Oh, and since our vote'll tip the scales, here's one for *kokorico.*


----------



## Hydreigon25

Stop using Roar of time style


----------



## Mawile

Hydreigon25 said:


> Stop using Roar of time style


i run dark theme on every website you can't stop me


----------



## Mawile

*Vote History:*


Spoiler



JackPK voted Hydreigon25 (#933)
tbh^2 voted Hydreigon25 (#941)
Despicable Meme voted Hydreigon25 (#970)
kyeugh voted Hydreigon25 (#979)
RedneckPhoenix voted Hydreigon25 (#981)
Vipera Magnifica voted tbh^2 (#999)
Mist1422 voted tbh^2 (#1004)
JackPK voted tbh^2 (#1006)
JackPK voted Hydreigon25 (#1022)
kyeugh voted Vipera Magnifica (#1025)
Mist1422 voted nobody (#1027)
kyeugh voted kokorico (#1036)
RedneckPhoenix voted kokorico (#1038)
JackPK voted nobody (#1041)
RedneckPhoenix voted Vipera Magnifica (#1071)
Despicable Meme voted Vipera Magnifica (#1076)
JackPK voted kokorico (#1102)
Despicable Meme voted kokorico (#1103)
RedneckPhoenix voted kokorico (#1104)
kokorico voted Vipera Magnifica (#1119)
Mist1422 voted Vipera Magnifica (#1121)
Vipera Magnifica voted kyeugh (#1125)
RedneckPhoenix voted Vipera Magnifica (#1129)
kyeugh voted Vipera Magnifica (#1132)
Mist1422 voted Vipera Magnifica (#1135)
Despicable Meme voted Vipera Magnifica (#1190)
tbh^2 voted Vipera Magnifica (#1210)
kyeugh voted kokorico (#1246)
tbh^2 voted kokorico (#1250)
RedneckPhoenix voted Vipera Magnifica (#1253)
Despicable Meme voted kokorico (#1331)



*Active Votes (+ post numbers):*


Spoiler



JackPK voted kokorico (#1102)
kokorico voted Vipera Magnifica (#1119)
Vipera Magnifica voted kyeugh (#1125)
Mist1422 voted Vipera Magnifica (#1135)
kyeugh voted kokorico (#1246)
tbh^2 voted kokorico (#1250)
RedneckPhoenix voted Vipera Magnifica (#1253)
Despicable Meme voted kokorico (#1331)



*Vote Count:*
kokorico (4): JackPK (#1102), kyeugh (#1246), tbh^2 (#1250), Despicable Meme (#1331)
Vipera Magnifica (3): kokorico (#1119), Mist1422 (#1135), RedneckPhoenix (#1253)
kyeugh (1): Vipera Magnifica (#1125)
(Nonvoters: Keldeo, storm, IndigoEmmy, Trebek, Butterfree, Seshas, Hydreigon25)


----------



## Hydreigon25

@Mawile My post was directed towards RedneckPhoenix NOT you


----------



## Mawile

i'm just posting for reaction points and cause this is my game lmao


----------



## storm

honestly darker skins and themes are not only often more efficient but help prevent eyestrain

Accessibility Is Important, even when we are all engaging in a game of imaginary death and mass suspicion


----------



## Mawile

Mawile said:


> i'm just posting for reaction points and cause this is my game lmao


----------



## RedneckPhoenix

Hydreigon25 said:


> Stop using Roar of time style


i have choice words but i am choosing tp restrain myself because chances are i'd get modkilled or something


----------



## Mawile

RedneckPhoenix said:


> Hydreigon25 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Stop using Roar of time style
> 
> 
> 
> i have choice words but i am choosing tp restrain myself because chances are i'd get modkilled or something
Click to expand...

i only modkill for Specific Things and this isn't one of them


----------



## RedneckPhoenix

don't fucking tell me what to do you font-changing scum


----------



## RedneckPhoenix

...to put it mildly.


----------



## RedneckPhoenix

why the fuck should i strain my eyes cuz you refuse to stop with the font effects from 2007


----------



## RedneckPhoenix

i used to use colored text on forums! when i was 7.


----------



## RedneckPhoenix

it was the cartoon network forums and it was a discussion about total drama island and i got my account locked


----------



## Butterfree

RNP, please, be kind.

Anyway, this has, uh, been A Ride to catch up on. *VM* probably makes the most sense? I'm having a really hard time making sense of what's even going on here (maybe it'll be easier sometime when it's not seven AM), and he sounds super honestly desperate and it's hard to see why he'd do any of this as mafia, but ?_?


----------



## Mawile

approximately *15 and a half hours until EoD *(assuming I can do math correctly at 1am)


----------



## Herbe

it looks like the wagons are 4/4 right now


----------



## Herbe

ah shit i forgot to log into my hydra account


----------



## Despicable Meme

^ what he said


----------



## Despicable Meme

hey bfree, i know its like a ridiculous amt of info but do you have any opinions on the logic trees jack has set up? abt what to do in each case if koko or vm flip red or green? take as much time as you need to assess the situation haha no rush rn


----------



## Keldeo

Haha, time to sign up for another shenanigans game! Surely nothing mechanically complicated or confusing to puzzle out will


----------



## Keldeo

Notes/etc. from catchup that are not related to the mechanical situation, which I'm honestly still trying to wrap my head around but I'll make another post about it:

Can I townread Jack for evidently having ISOed Seshas overnight, is that allowed. Agree with tbh that him looking at VM's flavor from the POV that he had is pretty good too. Although this is coming from me who townread his POV throughout him counterclaiming Butterfree in Tarot, oops.

Has IndigoEmmy checked in at all this phase? Hope she's doing okay. :>

I think I like the ~consistency between Butterfree not thinking a mafia fruit vendor was a thing and how she treated Seshas last EOD? I do think that consistency could be because it's something she believes as either alignment... but if she was w/w with mafia fruit vendor Seshas, then it wouldn't be a belief.

I'm kind of confused by Hydreigon's moves, I feel like I'm flopping between too esoteric to be mafia and like, too esoteric to be "too esoteric to be mafia." (this is similar to Mist's read on them, I think?) My read is also maybe badly calibrated because I think several like, presuppositions in their posts point to them being used to a different meta than there is here. 
- I think I agree with kyeugh that Seshas pointing out Hydreigon as towny doesn't necessarily make them partnered with them, because it did draw attention to them, but also I'm not really sure what their agenda would be in doing that if Hydreigon is town. Like I don't really feel like it was presented in a way to secure a pocket or suck up to them or something - the read felt pretty straightforward but also not really founded in a lot.
- However, now I think my "VM and Hydreigon are aligned" read probably takes precedence over any read I make on Seshas/Hydreigon...?

In the world that RNP is town, Mist recharging his one-shot is a very pro-town way for her to use her ability (given that the recharging works how it's said to and won't like... kill him or something when he tries to use the ability again? which I kind of hate is a caveat that I have to add but #shenanigans.) I am tempted to say it aligns them with him, but a little unsure - v/w and w/v are maybe still possibilities, and also RNP softing what happened would be some fairly slick scum theater if w/w.  

--

@kokorico, sorry if I missed it among speculation, but can you summarize for me what your current take is on the most likely mechanical situation and the best yeet today? 

@Mist1422, what changed your mind on Hydreigon between yesterDay and toDay?



RedneckPhoenix said:


> don't fucking tell me what to do you font-changing scum


Hey, I agree Hydreigon changing their post styling would help with accessibility, but this and some of the things you said to VM have made me a little uncomfortable. :(

@Hydreigon25, are you running into a technical issue or something with removing the colors from your posts? I feel like in general, if an issue could be resolved by one person changing something (text color) vs. many people changing something (forum style), usually it's easier if the one person makes the change, even though it may be a bit more hassle for them than for each of the many people individually. I'm sure we'd all like to be able to easily read what you have to say!

--

(just realized my above post could be read as criticism - is joke, I knew what I was getting into,  Mawile)



Vipera Magnifica said:


> tbh I didn't think tbh seemed scummy at all tbh, but tbh I wanted to know if tbh was town for sure in case I was getting pocketed so that's why I targeted them last night tbh


attn: @Boquise 



Mist1422 said:


> JackPK said:
> 
> 
> 
> doctor should kill kyeugh
Click to expand...




Stryke said:


> ******HEAL NOT KILL


----------



## Keldeo

Keldeo said:


> and won't like... kill him or something when he tries to use the ability again?


It occurs to me that I can probably trace my fear of this specific thing happening in any vaguely shenanigansy game to the wonderful Third-Party Party MFia from like two years ago.

Kratos's guns... not even once.


----------



## Keldeo

Mist1422 said:


> If we want to go with the Potentially Boring Option we could always yeet Hydre and use my role to resolve the VM/kyeugh situation


Collecting a loose end I forgot to - Mist, can you elaborate on whether you think this could still help given Jack's worlds laid out in #1316?


----------



## tbh²

ok i was going to longpost tonight but a lot of things happened and i couldn’t; now i’m too tired to think straight. i’ll try to log in much earlier and do it in the early afternoon tbh.

bottom line is: i caught up to the thread with mewt and we talked at lengths about the current situation. after much discussion, i managed to convince her that the best lynch toDay is *vipera magnifica*. tomorrow’s longpost will explain it all, but i believe it’s important to lay this vote now.

- rari


----------



## Keldeo

These are the relevant claims, right?

VM: n0 cop koko town + motion detect DM nothing; n1 cop TBH mafia (not swapped)
kyeugh: n0 witness TBH -> witness koko mafia; n1 witness Jack -> blocked
RNP: n0 truth-compel DM, n1 nothing
storm: n0 track DM nowhere, n1 track Hydreigon -> TBH went nowhere
tbh: n0/n1 non-moving ability
DM: n0 non-moving ability, n1 targeted Hydreigon -> "unexpected"

Couple questions that I assume I know the answers to, but clarification doesn't hurt:

@Vipera Magnifica When you motion detected DM, does that mean the "traditional" sense of motion detect - i.e. you would receive positive feedback if DM got targeted as well, even if they didn't go anywhere? Also, why'd you choose DM?

@kyeugh When you say you learn the alignment of your target's killer if they die, and like mafia Y kills your target X, do you know if that would be like "X's killer was mafia" or "Y is mafia"?


----------



## Keldeo

Oh god my head.

I think *VM* is the best vote from the point of view of: if he's town, I disagree with Jack saying that we get no useful information - I think VM's correct that him being town implicates several people.* But I also don't think we're ever getting there based on his posting, and we very likely have the yeets to spare. And if he's mafia, yay we killed another mafia, evaluate more tomorrow i.e., uhh, I'm tired and haven't thought through the implications. I think Hydreigon is likely mafia too in this case? I still think koko/Seshas is unlikely w/w and I suppose koko could have been... really unlucky to get the "dragging em down with me" n0 plus some sort of uninformed miller thing with kyeugh, but I think along similar lines with tbh/Seshas... I guess in this case kyeugh's results probably tell us that koko/tbh is v/w or w/v so just yeeting both of them in absolute worst case nets us a wolf. 

To be clear, I'm using "town/v" and "mafia/w" essentially as shorthand for "town (who is telling the truth)" and "in-group mafia (who is lying)". There are of course other possibilities...



Spoiler






rari_teh said:


>


I think my role PM might imply that aliens exist even if the alien conversion thing isn't real. We seem to be missing the n0 scum kill, and possibly multiple further kills assuming the existence of a vig, so I'm worried that VM's extremely bold claim might be an alien move?

However... no one's brought up the possibility of alien at all unless I missed something, which makes VM continuing to fight for himself and sounding very genuine in it pretty good evidence against this possibility, imo? Like, I believe that he wants to survive, and that he's not just performing that desire to make people second-guess themselves out of him being an alien.

I guess he could be outgroup? That would basically just be the same as the "is mafia" possibility above but wreck all the associatives from it (like, Hydreigon would be town in that world, as they wouldn't be knowingly aligned, I think?) If he's a terrorist, which I imagine is the most common outgroup role, idk why he hasn't just blown up kyeugh by now or something lol.



* So... this actually has nothing to do with VM's cop results. I kind of have no idea what his most likely cop sanity would be if he's town because tbh/Seshas and koko/Seshas both seem pretty highly not w/w to me, and I also have separate reasons to townread both of them outside this associative read so I don't think the possibility that it could be an ingroup/outgroup thing helps. Maybe there's something super weird going on here that no one will ever guess like, idk, alternating night sanities or Mawile went full bastard and is generating random results or something. This is why I don't think killing koko or tbh would be the best route even in terms of information/confirming anything here. 

However, I think that except in the very specific and probably verifiable case of (1) some unfathomable weirdness having happened night 0 and (2) someone having deflected results from Hydreigon to tbh or redirected Storm to tbh on night 1, VM and storm can't be v/v due to (1) VM detecting no motion around DM night 0, when storm claimed to target DM (and presumably both got their username in the feedback) and (2) VM getting his result on tbh night 1 and storm getting their result shifted from Hydreigon to tbh that night. Same with VM and RNP for the reason in (1). 

re: kyeugh in this case... I feel like all my reasoning right now is circular. From a pure setup perspective, it seems ~unlikely that kyeugh's role exists alongside VM's as v/v - unless one of them is insane, which would have to be the case for them to be v/v anyway given their results. I don't think mafia kyeugh would counterclaim town VM in that spot unless she was partners with tbh, I feel like she'd probably let us misyeet town tbh and then turn on VM... but if VM is town and sane, tbh is mafia anyway. So uhh, I feel like that all will eventually come out in the wash.


----------



## Keldeo

Keldeo said:


> If he's a terrorist,


VM being a terrorist would be like, snakes on a plane... snakewhistling on a plane... bro...


----------



## Keldeo

I really need sleep, so I would appreciate a sanity check (ha ha) on all the above.


----------



## Novae

Keldeo said:


> @Mist1422, what changed your mind on Hydreigon between yesterDay and toDay?


someone mentioning that the ysabel thing which I derpcleared them for was actually a 2R1B based thing


Keldeo said:


> Mist1422 said:
> 
> 
> 
> If we want to go with the Potentially Boring Option we could always yeet Hydre and use my role to resolve the VM/kyeugh situation
> 
> 
> 
> Collecting a loose end I forgot to - Mist, can you elaborate on whether you think this could still help given Jack's worlds laid out in #1316?
Click to expand...

given the nature of my action it's probably more useful to just resolve normally and do what I can with mine


----------



## qenya

Keldeo said:


> @kokorico, sorry if I missed it among speculation, but can you summarize for me what your current take is on the most likely mechanical situation and the best yeet today?


My current take on the mech situation is basically the same as yesterday, but I'll happily recap.

On VM: I don't see how he can possibly be telling the truth, given that he claims to be able to use multiple night actions at once (something everyone else has been told is explicitly impossible), is happily contradicting _literally everyone_ to have offered any mech information so far, and is abjectly refusing to help solve anything. I know his "greencheck" on me is correct, but I have

On kyeugh: If she's lying, she must have been planning it from the very beginning of the game (which I suppose _might_ line up with Seshas' bizarre push on me, but still lacks any obvious motive). If she's town, then there's something else weird going on with at least one mechanic out of {sanities, redirectors, millers}.

On the best yeet target: I totally understand the argument for wanting to resolve me in order to clear people, and I don't think yeeting me would be a terrible move for town; it _would_ clear up a lot of the mech uncertainty, and we can certainly afford a single mislynch given that there was no N0 kill and we got mafia on D1. That's why I haven't really been pushing back against my wagon at all. But even so, I'm a mite peeved that there is someone who's _blatantly_ and _obviously_ lying and we're _still_ considering going for an infolynch instead. Feels like almost exactly the mistake town made in TVT, which y'all vowed never to repeat.

I haven't read the rest of your wall-of-text yet, but I'll have a look asap and get back to you.


----------



## qenya

kokorico said:


> On VM: I don't see how he can possibly be telling the truth, given that he claims to be able to use multiple night actions at once (something everyone else has been told is explicitly impossible), is happily contradicting _literally everyone_ to have offered any mech information so far, and is abjectly refusing to help solve anything. I know his "greencheck" on me is correct, but I have


Oops, hit post too soon.

I know his "greencheck" on me is correct, but I have my doubts about his "redcheck" on raritini (as I've said previously), so that doesn't really seem to fit with _any_ sanity of cop, unless the one that gets totally random results (which is worse than useless). I also agree with what RNP said earlier, that his cast-iron insistence on not being an insane cop is indicative that he's not a cop at all.


----------



## Butterfree

JackPK said:


> my thoughts basically haven't changed from what I've said earlier? koko is the yeet that gets us the most guaranteed info, vm is probably fakeclaiming mafia but possibly insane cop, hydreigon probably w/w with vm
> 
> if koko flips red -> vig should kill hydreigon; doctor should heal kyeugh; kyeugh should witness vm; this gives us the best information to judge whether vm is mafia or insane cop for purposes of the next day's yeet
> 
> if koko flips green -> vig should kill tbh; doctor should heal vm; vm should inspect kyeugh; this gives us the best information to judge whether kyeugh is mafia or insane witness for purposes of the next day's yeet
> 
> if vm flips red -> vig should kill koko; doctor should kill kyeugh; koko's flip should allow us to judge kyeugh's sanity
> 
> if vm flips green -> no immediate useful information, but then IF vig kills tbh, this should in theory determine kyeugh's sanity, _but that's two dead villagers where every other scenario gets us only one dead villager_


My thoughts on this are, hrmmm. I feel like we should be more reluctant to take kyeugh at her word that she's a witness at all? She was hard-defending Seshas yesterday, and her only info is an unconfirmed redcheck that conveniently explains why she was defending Seshas yesterday (I don't _think_ she softed this claim, other than by really wanting to lynch koko over Seshas?). Even if koko _did_ flip mafia, that doesn't really prove kyeugh's role - there would still be the possibility that the mafia yesterday would simply rather lose koko than Seshas, and kyeugh today hoped to reestablish ironclad towncred by getting koko lynched (risky move, but she was obviously very aware at the beginning of today that having defended Seshas the way she did was a very bad look).

I think VM pretty much _must_ be lying; even if he does flip green, I'd be more inclined to assume he's some kind of town-flipping outgroup mafia (or alien) than an actual cop, sane or insane.

Given these things, I'm not really on board with this elaborate logic on trying to determine the cops' sanities; I'm not entirely convinced either of them is actually a cop at all.

VM and Hydreigon do seem linked, as well as maybe VM and koko, so if VM flips red, Hydreigon and koko are probably who we should be looking at next. If VM flips green, he's probably not ingroup mafia and his information may not mean anything at all? But then he and Hydreigon at least are probably not in cahoots.

If we executed koko today, and he flipped green, I don't think this would tell us VM is a genuine sane cop, just to side-eye kyeugh more. If he flipped red, better for kyeugh but still not really proof, and VM's still an insane cop. I don't really think there's a world in which we want to kill tbh^2.


----------



## kyeugh

btw, i think that the woke take here is that me, tbh², vm, and probably dm/rnp/jack are town


Keldeo said:


> @kyeugh When you say you learn the alignment of your target's killer if they die, and like mafia Y kills your target X, do you know if that would be like "X's killer was mafia" or "Y is mafia"?


 hmmm, i’m not sure. but given how clear it was whose alignment i received n0, i also want to say it would be clear in this case too.


----------



## kyeugh

kyeugh said:


> btw, i think that the woke take here is that me, tbh², vm, and probably dm/rnp/jack are town


um, this draft is like a day old. i didn’t mean to post this


----------



## kyeugh

Butterfree said:


> Given these things, I'm not really on board with this elaborate logic on trying to determine the cops' sanities; I'm not entirely convinced either of them is actually a cop at all.


do you think there are no cops in this game then?


----------



## kyeugh

Keldeo said:


> kyeugh: n0 witness TBH -> witness koko mafia; n1 witness Jack -> blocked


 this checks out for me. btw i’ve been somewhat considering the possibility that, since no one has claimed roleblocker yet, i was blocked by scum who suspected i might be cop because of my push on koko yesterDay. which would suggest koko is scum. it’s possible i was just blocked my some unclaimed town guy because they thought i looked bad after arguing against what ended up being a scum flip, but. just a thought i had.

i can vibe with a vm yeet, although i’m indeed not really sure what i’m going to take away from it if he flips green. i guess i’ll just assume he was an insane cop after all and gun for koko again? idk. if he flips green i’m pretty sure he wasn’t lying about being a cop. however i’m increasingly bothered by the simultaneous oneshot/regular night actions and i don’t think i can look past it... i also kind of don’t believe that he really took mawile at his word when essentially asking him “am i insane.” also i feel like he didn’t really act like he had a green check on koko yesterDay?

i still believe koko is pretty likely to be scum independent of vm’s alignment, even if i think eir tone is decent.


----------



## tbh²

tbh² said:


> ok i was going to longpost tonight but a lot of things happened and i couldn’t; now i’m too tired to think straight. i’ll try to log in much earlier and do it in the early afternoon tbh.
> 
> bottom line is: i caught up to the thread with mewt and we talked at lengths about the current situation. after much discussion, i managed to convince her that the best lynch toDay is *vipera magnifica*. tomorrow’s longpost will explain it all, but i believe it’s important to lay this vote now.
> 
> - rari


i am not rari underscore teh and i don't have her longposting powers, but the gist of this conversation was that i'd been really caught up in koko being the 'safe' lynch out of all this because e was the overlapping check/could 'resolve' this situation, and that i was really fucking terrified of vm flipping green and everyone being like ?_? because i was scared of getting nothing out of it and still being as lost as we were before. i was also reading his posting as desperate!town but rari was not, so i'm coming out of that toneread a bit (which was the only thing that was giving me pause). 

most of our conversation last night was basically solidifying that the numerous holes in his claim don't add up, and *not* in a role madnessy way - most glaringly, the oneshot thing that i kept forgetting about, but that _makes no sense_ and reading back i think it's moderately/definitely likely to be the case that he messed up his fakeclaim and couldn't back out of it (consistent with the tunneled way he went on about this all, incl. the sanity talk). i also really don't know how he could have ever targeted us n1 when both storm and hmf were affected by the bus driving; it wasn't an action redirector that hit those two, it was _a bus driver swap._

i also overestimated how big of a gambit it would be for mafia to claim what he did, because i was caught up on the weirdness of his checks. this is sort of an aside, i think my main point is the stuff above, but basically i was thinking that this was like /something mafia never does/ when that isn't the case really at all; mafia-claiming-cop could easily claim koko green when the consensus was that the wagons were w/v d1, and not realize that another cop could have also checked em and could effectively counterclaim on the result. i'm also reading EoD1 now and i agree with skylar that he didn't really act as if he had a greencheck on koko yesterDay; he never mentioned em and afaict the only thing i can maybe finagle into that is


Vipera Magnifica said:


> I do think it's a little weird that Seshas has a virtually uncontested wagon right now, but something was definitely making me suspicious of their posts when I was reading earlier and the reasons other people have mentioned seem like a reasonable cause for suspicion. I'm keeping my vote on her for now because I don't really see any alternative right now? Still, I am open to the idea of a third wagon


-m


----------



## tbh²

tbh² said:


> i am not rari underscore teh and i don't have her longposting powers,


um, i didn't really expect it to turn into an actual longpost when i wrote this. lmfao
-m


----------



## Mawile

*Vote History:*


Spoiler



JackPK voted Hydreigon25 (#933)
tbh^2 voted Hydreigon25 (#941)
Despicable Meme voted Hydreigon25 (#970)
kyeugh voted Hydreigon25 (#979)
RedneckPhoenix voted Hydreigon25 (#981)
Vipera Magnifica voted tbh^2 (#999)
Mist1422 voted tbh^2 (#1004)
JackPK voted tbh^2 (#1006)
JackPK voted Hydreigon25 (#1022)
kyeugh voted Vipera Magnifica (#1025)
Mist1422 voted nobody (#1027)
kyeugh voted kokorico (#1036)
RedneckPhoenix voted kokorico (#1038)
JackPK voted nobody (#1041)
RedneckPhoenix voted Vipera Magnifica (#1071)
Despicable Meme voted Vipera Magnifica (#1076)
JackPK voted kokorico (#1102)
Despicable Meme voted kokorico (#1103)
RedneckPhoenix voted kokorico (#1104)
kokorico voted Vipera Magnifica (#1119)
Mist1422 voted Vipera Magnifica (#1121)
Vipera Magnifica voted kyeugh (#1125)
RedneckPhoenix voted Vipera Magnifica (#1129)
kyeugh voted Vipera Magnifica (#1132)
Mist1422 voted Vipera Magnifica (#1135)
Despicable Meme voted Vipera Magnifica (#1190)
tbh^2 voted Vipera Magnifica (#1210)
kyeugh voted kokorico (#1246)
tbh^2 voted kokorico (#1250)
RedneckPhoenix voted Vipera Magnifica (#1253)
Despicable Meme voted kokorico (#1331)
Butterfree voted Vipera Magnifica (#1346)
tbh^2 voted Vipera Magnifica (#1356)
Keldeo voted Vipera Magnifica (#1358)



*Active Votes (+ post numbers):*


Spoiler



JackPK voted kokorico (#1102)
kokorico voted Vipera Magnifica (#1119)
Vipera Magnifica voted kyeugh (#1125)
Mist1422 voted Vipera Magnifica (#1135)
kyeugh voted kokorico (#1246)
RedneckPhoenix voted Vipera Magnifica (#1253)
Despicable Meme voted kokorico (#1331)
Butterfree voted Vipera Magnifica (#1346)
tbh^2 voted Vipera Magnifica (#1356)
Keldeo voted Vipera Magnifica (#1358)



*Vote Count:*
Vipera Magnifica (6): kokorico (#1119), Mist1422 (#1135), RedneckPhoenix (#1253), Butterfree (#1346), tbh^2 (#1356), Keldeo (#1358)
kokorico (3): JackPK (#1102), kyeugh (#1246), Despicable Meme (#1331)
kyeugh (1): Vipera Magnifica (#1125)
(Nonvoters: storm, IndigoEmmy, Trebek, Seshas, Hydreigon25)

*EoD is in approximately 5 hours.*


----------



## JackPK

Keldeo said:


> However, I think that except in the very specific and probably verifiable case of (1) some unfathomable weirdness having happened night 0 and (2) someone having deflected results from Hydreigon to tbh or redirected Storm to tbh on night 1, VM and storm can't be v/v due to (1) VM detecting no motion around DM night 0, when storm claimed to target DM (and presumably both got their username in the feedback) and (2) VM getting his result on tbh night 1 and storm getting their result shifted from Hydreigon to tbh that night. Same with VM and RNP for the reason in (1).


Good point! I hadn't considered those interactions since I was focused on the two claimed inforoles and their claimed targets, and I wasn't thinking beyond that bubble. I've been mulling this for the past few hours and I think this is enough to convince me that VM is just as informative a yeet as koko, so I'll go ahead and switch my vote.

*Vipera Magnifica*

(but for what it's worth, my thoughts are still that VM/Hydreigon are probably scum and koko is probably either scum or a convenient pawn that scum is using)



Mawile said:


> (Nonvoters: storm, IndigoEmmy, Trebek, Seshas, Hydreigon25)


@storm What are your thoughts on everything so far?

@IndigoEmmy Just checking in, are you reading this game at all?

Trebek and Seshas are dead, no point pinging them

@Hydreigon25 You've seemed very confident in VM as town so far; are you still feeling that way? If so, who do you think should be yeeted instead? I want to hear your argument on why I should change my vote.


----------



## Hydreigon25

*Vipera Magnifica*


----------



## RedneckPhoenix

in your own words, "changing your tune", huh?


----------



## Hydreigon25

JackPK said:


> @Hydreigon25 You've seemed very confident in VM as town so far; are you still feeling that way? If so, who do you think should be yeeted instead? I want to hear your argument on why I should change my vote.


i just think we should have waited until D3 for more information about VM but it's fine otherwise


----------



## tbh²

Hydreigon25 said:


> i just think we should have waited until D3 for more information about VM but it's fine otherwise


what information were you expecting to get?
- rari

(longpost in the works btw)


----------



## Mawile

*Vote History:*


Spoiler



JackPK voted Hydreigon25 (#933)
tbh^2 voted Hydreigon25 (#941)
Despicable Meme voted Hydreigon25 (#970)
kyeugh voted Hydreigon25 (#979)
RedneckPhoenix voted Hydreigon25 (#981)
Vipera Magnifica voted tbh^2 (#999)
Mist1422 voted tbh^2 (#1004)
JackPK voted tbh^2 (#1006)
JackPK voted Hydreigon25 (#1022)
kyeugh voted Vipera Magnifica (#1025)
Mist1422 voted nobody (#1027)
kyeugh voted kokorico (#1036)
RedneckPhoenix voted kokorico (#1038)
JackPK voted nobody (#1041)
RedneckPhoenix voted Vipera Magnifica (#1071)
Despicable Meme voted Vipera Magnifica (#1076)
JackPK voted kokorico (#1102)
Despicable Meme voted kokorico (#1103)
RedneckPhoenix voted kokorico (#1104)
kokorico voted Vipera Magnifica (#1119)
Mist1422 voted Vipera Magnifica (#1121)
Vipera Magnifica voted kyeugh (#1125)
RedneckPhoenix voted Vipera Magnifica (#1129)
kyeugh voted Vipera Magnifica (#1132)
Mist1422 voted Vipera Magnifica (#1135)
Despicable Meme voted Vipera Magnifica (#1190)
tbh^2 voted Vipera Magnifica (#1210)
kyeugh voted kokorico (#1246)
tbh^2 voted kokorico (#1250)
RedneckPhoenix voted Vipera Magnifica (#1253)
Despicable Meme voted kokorico (#1331)
Butterfree voted Vipera Magnifica (#1346)
tbh^2 voted Vipera Magnifica (#1356)
Keldeo voted Vipera Magnifica (#1358)
JackPK voted Vipera Magnifica (#1372)
Hydreigon25 voted Vipera Magnifica (#1375)



*Active Votes (+ post numbers):*


Spoiler



kokorico voted Vipera Magnifica (#1119)
Vipera Magnifica voted kyeugh (#1125)
Mist1422 voted Vipera Magnifica (#1135)
kyeugh voted kokorico (#1246)
RedneckPhoenix voted Vipera Magnifica (#1253)
Despicable Meme voted kokorico (#1331)
Butterfree voted Vipera Magnifica (#1346)
tbh^2 voted Vipera Magnifica (#1356)
Keldeo voted Vipera Magnifica (#1358)
JackPK voted Vipera Magnifica (#1372)
Hydreigon25 voted Vipera Magnifica (#1375)



*Vote Count:*
Vipera Magnifica (8): kokorico (#1119), Mist1422 (#1135), RedneckPhoenix (#1253), Butterfree (#1346), tbh^2 (#1356), Keldeo (#1358), JackPK (#1372), Hydreigon25 (#1375)
kokorico (2): kyeugh (#1246), Despicable Meme (#1331)
kyeugh (1): Vipera Magnifica (#1125)
(Nonvoters: storm, IndigoEmmy, Trebek, Seshas)


----------



## Novae

ok


----------



## Hydreigon25

tbh² said:


> Hydreigon25 said:
> 
> 
> 
> i just think we should have waited until D3 for more information about VM but it's fine otherwise
> 
> 
> 
> what information were you expecting to get?
> - rari
> 
> (longpost in the works btw)
Click to expand...

i was hoping we could find out info on VM during D3, provided VM is Not a Mafia target N2 thereby possibly confirming him town but it basically is currently a theory atm


----------



## Hydreigon25

I'm just thinking out loud about my thoughts on VM


----------



## Hydreigon25

sorry for the confusion


----------



## tbh²

ok, the longpost is finally here. before anything i must say i know this will end up… very different from what i expected last night, lol. my ~fabled~ _longposting powers_ only really exist when i’m at #maximumtilt and the fact that (most of?) the town isn’t buying into vm’s bullshit and he’s set to be lynched is making me more satisfied than tilted really

i must say, though, that it was quite painful for me to read over a dozen pages of people still going _hmmm what if vm town_ even with the piling inconsistencies regarding multitasking, general attitude, bus driving, alleged GM PMing and more. i mean, i understand the sentiment, but come on guys, it is pretty apparent that this is scum fakeclaim gone wrong.

before anyone says anything else about trebek being the bus driver and/or the existence of a bus driver at all, i must remind y’all that he literally said with all words that he had crumbed his role yesterday. i challenge all of you to find a rolesoft that isn’t the *bus*y *drivin’*. from what all people that are not claiming things full of holes are saying, his actions must’ve been tbh²/kokorico n0 and tbh²/hydreigon25 n1.



tbh² said:


> but then this gets me, i don't know where rari is (probably not here) but this seems like such a weird play for mafia to make that i almost loop back around to VM town


for transparency’s sake: i fully believe that vm has a crummy passive mafia role (hence not knowing that multitasking isn’t allowed) and is sacrificing himself to out the real cop



kyeugh said:


> it is indeed weird, but if vm is mafia, he's made several ballsy gambits in this game. the first was the thing "clearing" hydreigon—incidentally, when he came in to claim his red check on you, it was when under hydreigon was under a bunch of heat. i do get vague feelings of desperate town from his recent posting, but at the same time, his refusal to consider any world except for that he is sane and i am lying does not strike me as particularly pro-town, so idk.


this isn’t weird tbh. this is exactly what mafia!vm would do. “clearing” a scumbuddy d1 and steering conversation away from said scumbuddy’s lynch d2 with a spetaculous accusatory fakeclaiming gambit. he’s full-on powerwolfing.



JackPK said:


> at this point I'm thinking vm is the most likely to be mafia, but I'm keeping my vote on koko bc that's still the death that guarantees us the most useful info regardless of flip (if we yeet vm and he somehow flips green, we have NO IDEA what to do with his results because we don't know his sanity)


this seems to make sense at first, but once you analyse it closely it does not. yes, koko’s flip would glean the most information on other people’s alignments when compared to qva or vm. but vm’s actions and inconsistencies are utmostly incompatible with town. while if vm flipped green we would be left very confused and with little information on other people’s alignments, this scenario is so absurdly improbable to happen that it should trump a koko infolynch. koko can be sorted out either toMorrow or by a vig.



kyeugh said:


> hahaha. fwiw, i'm not really deadset on burying vm here. i think the chance that he's town but insane exists, and if he's willing to work under that pretense and go for a koko lynch to make heads or tails of all this, that'd be ideal (since i'm of the opinion that koko is mechanically somewhat more likely to be scum than he is, although i think eir tone is better). but flipping vm is just as well to me. if i survive the night, i'll have a pretty good idea about my own sanity anyway.





kyeugh said:


> i still think koko is the move for the time being, since the odds that vm is insane but v aren’t bad imo.


i am. very sorry but, what makes you think that vm may be insane and just really stubborn a possibility, all things considered? do you really believe that he contacted mawile about the possibility of his role being bastard and expected a truthful answer, especially considering that vm himself is a renowned shenanigansy/lulzy gm himself?

wrt koko see my reply to jack’s post above



Vipera Magnifica said:


> I am very positive that I am NOT an insane cop and I will personally send everyone in this game $100 if that turns out to be the case. Even bringing up the possibility of insane cop seems like a very scummy play to me and it's frustrating me that no one else is seeing that.





Vipera Magnifica said:


> if i was even the slightest bit unsure about my sanity why would i pledge to give everyone money? kyeugh can attest to me donating the 30 dollars i said i would in cats mafia if i turned out to be wrong


ah, my dear viper. i can’t applaud enough your gambit here. i know that you are a snake of your word and you would never not fulfill a bet you made in earnest. that’s why you betted a grand total of $1,500 on you not being an insane cop. because you know that you can’t be insane cop if you aren’t even a cop. now let this espurr offer you an irrefusable counterproposal: if you plead to personally wire $100 to each and every one of us if you are not a town-aligned alignment cop, i will gladly move our vote off you and join your campaign for a qva lynch. how does that sound for you?



RedneckPhoenix said:


> i'm actually really strapped for cash i really hope von is an insane cop


the real gambit here is us bribing mawile to retcon von’s role to be insane cop
unrelated @Mawile can you dm me your paypal account uwu



Vipera Magnifica said:


> I literally asked Mawile if cop sanities were a thing in this game and he said he doesn't like ever using them (that was my first thought too when I got a redcheck on raritini)


i find it amusing how the story you’re sticking to is that you decided to copcheck someone you were so sure was town that, once you got a redcheck, you were so stunned you felt compelled to ask the gm of a bastard game whether you are insane or not

this is so theatrically melodramatic i can’t help but chuckle



tbh² said:


> i can't wait for the other head to get back here and tell me what to think. because i am Lost
> vm still sounds like frustrated!town recently but i'm just so ... ?!?!?!
> and why did he not reveal that this was why he was so sure of his sanity before??


i appreciate your reliance tbh uwu
once again for transparency’s sake, i earnestly don’t think that vm sounds like frustrated!town, but rather like a classical greek drama actor wailing to the choir about his downfall



tbh² said:


> **if anyone CAN use their oneshot/regular ability at the same time, please speak up tbh


i want to stress this call tbh. if anyone who’s not vm can use two active powers on the same night, quote this and say “i do”, nothing else.



kyeugh said:


> your one shot ability is probably fine, idk?


his oneshot ability is fake tbh. his real oneshot ability is probably fine, though.



Despicable Meme said:


> but also think about my tinfoil conspiracy theory from a moment from my end and see if you puzzle anything out


omfg i see it



Keldeo said:


> In the world that RNP is town, Mist recharging his one-shot is a very pro-town way for her to use her ability (given that the recharging works how it's said to and won't like... kill him or something when he tries to use the ability again? which I kind of hate is a caveat that I have to add but #shenanigans.) I am tempted to say it aligns them with him, but a little unsure - v/w and w/v are maybe still possibilities, and also RNP softing what happened would be some fairly slick scum theater if w/w.


uh. why would w!rnp implicate mist again? regardless of what rnp’s deal is, mist can be (read: probably is) just a townie who just believed in rnp/hmf and gave him a oneshot recharge in earnest.

disclaimer that i fully believe that rnp and hmf are town



kyeugh said:


> do you think there are no cops in this game then?


this is a very good question. i am willing to believe that you are cop, but on that note, @IndigoEmmy is the only person who hasn’t read toDay apparently. hey emmy! how are you doing? vm and qva just claimed cop, do you have anything to say about this? “idk” is a valid answer.



kyeugh said:


> i can vibe with a vm yeet, although i’m indeed not really sure what i’m going to take away from it if he flips green.


we wouldn’t take much away from that, but it ain’t gonna happen



kyeugh said:


> i’m increasingly bothered by the simultaneous oneshot/regular night actions and i don’t think i can look past it... i also kind of don’t believe that he really took mawile at his word when essentially asking him “am i insane.” also i feel like he didn’t really act like he had a green check on koko yesterDay?


precisely.



tbh² said:


> i am not rari underscore teh and i don't have her longposting powers


you might not have my longposting powers but you have your longposting powers of your own tbh. i said this in hydrachat before and i’ll say it again, thank you for the longpost ;u; it covered a lot of stuff that i would otherwise have to address here, only in a much less angry tone lmao

- rari


----------



## storm

whoops I was asleep, sorry! I've been trying to follow the discussion and keldeo really made a good point with the weirdness around vm not seeing my own night action

I'm not sure if it's really needed at this point given how many people have already voted, but *Vipera Magnifica*


----------



## tbh²

Hydreigon25 said:


> tbh² said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hydreigon25 said:
> 
> 
> 
> i just think we should have waited until D3 for more information about VM but it's fine otherwise
> 
> 
> 
> what information were you expecting to get?
> - rari
> 
> (longpost in the works btw)
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> i was hoping we could find out info on VM during D3, provided VM is Not a Mafia target N2 thereby possibly confirming him town but it basically is currently a theory atm
Click to expand...

sorry, i feel like you haven’t really answered to my question. _what information_ were you expecting to get?
- rari


----------



## tbh²

answered *my question wtf rari
- rari


----------



## Mawile

tbh² said:


> the real gambit here is us bribing mawile to retcon von’s role to be insane cop
> unrelated @Mawile can you dm me your paypal account uwu


----------



## Mawile

*Vote History:*


Spoiler



JackPK voted Hydreigon25 (#933)
tbh^2 voted Hydreigon25 (#941)
Despicable Meme voted Hydreigon25 (#970)
kyeugh voted Hydreigon25 (#979)
RedneckPhoenix voted Hydreigon25 (#981)
Vipera Magnifica voted tbh^2 (#999)
Mist1422 voted tbh^2 (#1004)
JackPK voted tbh^2 (#1006)
JackPK voted Hydreigon25 (#1022)
kyeugh voted Vipera Magnifica (#1025)
Mist1422 voted nobody (#1027)
kyeugh voted kokorico (#1036)
RedneckPhoenix voted kokorico (#1038)
JackPK voted nobody (#1041)
RedneckPhoenix voted Vipera Magnifica (#1071)
Despicable Meme voted Vipera Magnifica (#1076)
JackPK voted kokorico (#1102)
Despicable Meme voted kokorico (#1103)
RedneckPhoenix voted kokorico (#1104)
kokorico voted Vipera Magnifica (#1119)
Mist1422 voted Vipera Magnifica (#1121)
Vipera Magnifica voted kyeugh (#1125)
RedneckPhoenix voted Vipera Magnifica (#1129)
kyeugh voted Vipera Magnifica (#1132)
Mist1422 voted Vipera Magnifica (#1135)
Despicable Meme voted Vipera Magnifica (#1190)
tbh^2 voted Vipera Magnifica (#1210)
kyeugh voted kokorico (#1246)
tbh^2 voted kokorico (#1250)
RedneckPhoenix voted Vipera Magnifica (#1253)
Despicable Meme voted kokorico (#1331)
Butterfree voted Vipera Magnifica (#1346)
tbh^2 voted Vipera Magnifica (#1356)
Keldeo voted Vipera Magnifica (#1358)
JackPK voted Vipera Magnifica (#1372)
Hydreigon25 voted Vipera Magnifica (#1375)
storm voted Vipera Magnifica (#1383)



*Active Votes (+ post numbers):*


Spoiler



kokorico voted Vipera Magnifica (#1119)
Vipera Magnifica voted kyeugh (#1125)
Mist1422 voted Vipera Magnifica (#1135)
kyeugh voted kokorico (#1246)
RedneckPhoenix voted Vipera Magnifica (#1253)
Despicable Meme voted kokorico (#1331)
Butterfree voted Vipera Magnifica (#1346)
tbh^2 voted Vipera Magnifica (#1356)
Keldeo voted Vipera Magnifica (#1358)
JackPK voted Vipera Magnifica (#1372)
Hydreigon25 voted Vipera Magnifica (#1375)
storm voted Vipera Magnifica (#1383)



*Vote Count:*
Vipera Magnifica (9): kokorico (#1119), Mist1422 (#1135), RedneckPhoenix (#1253), Butterfree (#1346), tbh^2 (#1356), Keldeo (#1358), JackPK (#1372), Hydreigon25 (#1375), storm (#1383)
kokorico (2): kyeugh (#1246), Despicable Meme (#1331)
kyeugh (1): Vipera Magnifica (#1125)
(Nonvoters: IndigoEmmy, Trebek, Seshas)

*EoD is in approximately 1 hour.*


----------



## kyeugh

tbh² said:


> for transparency’s sake: i fully believe that vm has a crummy passive mafia role (hence not knowing that multitasking isn’t allowed) and is sacrificing himself to out the real cop


 here's the thing: if vm is scum and my results are reliable, this is beyond unneccessary.  mafia probably already had strong reason to believe i was cop after the way yesterday went, because there was no other reason for me to push on koko the way i did—and the fact that i was blocked leads me to believe they do indeed already suspect as much.  it's not necessary for vm to sacrifice himself like this if they already have this idea and can just shoot me instead.


tbh² said:


> i am. very sorry but, what makes you think that vm may be insane and just really stubborn a possibility, all things considered? do you really believe that he contacted mawile about the possibility of his role being bastard and expected a truthful answer, especially considering that vm himself is a renowned shenanigansy/lulzy gm himself?


 i'm not trying to convince anyone he's town or to move their votes off vm, i'm simply reserving the possibility because if he does flip green (which despite your certainty, is still a _possibility_ until the moment we see his flip), it has implications for the way i should be looking at the entire game.  i don't think that's particularly odd, nor do i think it's odd to attempt to reason with a cop-claim in the case—however unlikely—that they're telling the truth, because losing a cop (even if we have a backup) is worse than not.  i'm also not really sure why you seem to expect me to vote for vm over my literal redcheck here; i'm far from criticizing anyone from voting for vm, but i have far more reason to vote where i am, and i'm of the opinion that it wouldn't be a bad vote for anyone else, either.

regardless of how vm flips, if there is a vig in the game, i really think they ought to shoot koko toNight.


----------



## kyeugh

btw, i was about to post that i'm interpreting hydrei's vote as a very delayed bus, but i just realized that mist's weird message was probably from hydrei.


----------



## kyeugh

kyeugh said:


> btw, i was about to post that i'm interpreting hydrei's vote as a very delayed bus, but i just realized that mist's weird message was probably from hydrei.


 actually, i'm still pretty sure the vote is a bus and hydrei is scum.  but still.  mist's whisper was probably from hydrei, for whatever that's worth.


----------



## Keldeo

Mmm, yeah, I've rethought through stuff after more sleep and I think this is still cool. 

I was gonna say my scary 1% world of VM being like, a wagon bomb who kills people who vote him (which could explain him claiming all this weird stuff but also not really seeming alien-ish?) but I think Hydreigon voting him dispels that fear for me. 

Rari, to be clear, w!RNP world doesn't either implicate or clear Mist, to me. 

I'm not entirely sure I understand what Hydreigon is saying around their vote, so the idea that it is like a late hop on the wagon for cred makes sense to me. I believe them that they're a messenger, but that's a pretty NAI role.


----------



## kyeugh

also, i'm going to die on the hill of the abbreviation being "hydrei" and not "hydre," because the i is important and affects the pronunciation goddamn it. >:/


----------



## Keldeo

Keldeo said:


> Rari, to be clear, w!RNP world doesn't either implicate or clear Mist, to me.


- purely based on the recharging one-shot thing, don't really remember any of their other interactions.


----------



## Vipera Magnifica

y'all are making a big mistake here, but whatever

when i die and flip town, _which i know i will_, can y'all please vig either kyeugh or raritini tonight?


----------



## tbh²

Vipera Magnifica said:


> y'all are making a big mistake here, but whatever
> 
> when i die and flip town, _which i know i will_, can y'all please vig either kyeugh or raritini tonight?


could you please respond to this?


tbh² said:


> ah, my dear viper. i can’t applaud enough your gambit here. i know that you are a snake of your word and you would never not fulfill a bet you made in earnest. that’s why you betted a grand total of $1,500 on you not being an insane cop. because you know that you can’t be insane cop if you aren’t even a cop. now let this espurr offer you an irrefusable counterproposal: if you plead to personally wire $100 to each and every one of us if you are not a town-aligned alignment cop, i will gladly move our vote off you and join your campaign for a qva lynch. how does that sound for you?


- rari


----------



## Keldeo

VM, if you are actually town, I'm sorry - it seems like a pretty rough position, I've been there more than once. But if you are town, I think you are right that it cracks the game open! 

Either way, I'm pumped. We got this! \o/


----------



## kyeugh

i mostly hope vm flips red for his sake, because if he's actually town, he will either have to shell out or spend the rest of his life getting chased down by tcod loansharks.  and you don't want to cross those guys, trust me.


----------



## Keldeo

God be with ye!


----------



## kyeugh

Keldeo said:


> VM, if you are actually town, I'm sorry - it seems like a pretty rough position, I've been there more than once. But if you are town, I think you are right that it cracks the game open!
> 
> Either way, I'm pumped. We got this! \o/


 echoing this sentiment, although keldeo, i'm curious what you mean by "cracks the game open"—what do you think we should do next if he flips green?


----------



## Keldeo

kyeugh said:


> Keldeo said:
> 
> 
> 
> VM, if you are actually town, I'm sorry - it seems like a pretty rough position, I've been there more than once. But if you are town, I think you are right that it cracks the game open!
> 
> Either way, I'm pumped. We got this! \o/
> 
> 
> 
> echoing this sentiment, although keldeo, i'm curious what you mean by "cracks the game open"—what do you think we should do next if he flips green?
Click to expand...

Sorry I have to go now, but I went through this in my long post early this morning that's a couple pages back, due to how many claims VM's comes into conflict with, is there anything confusing there?


----------



## tbh²

kyeugh said:


> here's the thing: if vm is scum and my results are reliable, this is beyond unneccessary. mafia probably already had strong reason to believe i was cop after the way yesterday went, because there was no other reason for me to push on koko the way i did—and the fact that i was blocked leads me to believe they do indeed already suspect as much. it's not necessary for vm to sacrifice himself like this if they already have this idea and can just shoot me instead.


 …yeah, this makes sense tbh. hmmm.



kyeugh said:


> i'm not trying to convince anyone he's town or to move their votes off vm, i'm simply reserving the possibility because if he does flip green (which despite your certainty, is still a _possibility_ until the moment we see his flip), it has implications for the way i should be looking at the entire game. i don't think that's particularly odd, nor do i think it's odd to attempt to reason with a cop-claim in the case—however unlikely—that they're telling the truth, because losing a cop (even if we have a backup) is worse than not. i'm also not really sure why you seem to expect me to vote for vm over my literal redcheck here; i'm far from criticizing anyone from voting for vm, but i have far more reason to vote where i am, and i'm of the opinion that it wouldn't be a bad vote for anyone else, either.


i’m not trying to convince you to move votes tbh. if i were cop i would probably never not vote my redcheck. i just wanted to understand why you still consider vm being villa a possibility, even if remote
- rari


----------



## JackPK

kyeugh said:


> Keldeo said:
> 
> 
> 
> VM, if you are actually town, I'm sorry - it seems like a pretty rough position, I've been there more than once. But if you are town, I think you are right that it cracks the game open!
> 
> Either way, I'm pumped. We got this! \o/
> 
> 
> 
> echoing this sentiment, although keldeo, i'm curious what you mean by "cracks the game open"—what do you think we should do next if he flips green?
Click to expand...

here you go!:


Keldeo said:


> However, I think that except in the very specific and probably verifiable case of (1) some unfathomable weirdness having happened night 0 and (2) someone having deflected results from Hydreigon to tbh or redirected Storm to tbh on night 1, VM and storm can't be v/v due to (1) VM detecting no motion around DM night 0, when storm claimed to target DM (and presumably both got their username in the feedback) and (2) VM getting his result on tbh night 1 and storm getting their result shifted from Hydreigon to tbh that night. Same with VM and RNP for the reason in (1).


----------



## kyeugh

Keldeo said:


> kyeugh said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Keldeo said:
> 
> 
> 
> VM, if you are actually town, I'm sorry - it seems like a pretty rough position, I've been there more than once. But if you are town, I think you are right that it cracks the game open!
> 
> Either way, I'm pumped. We got this! \o/
> 
> 
> 
> echoing this sentiment, although keldeo, i'm curious what you mean by "cracks the game open"—what do you think we should do next if he flips green?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Sorry I have to go now, but I went through this in my long post early this morning that's a couple pages back, due to how many claims VM's comes into conflict with, is there anything confusing there?
Click to expand...

 oh, right!  forgot about that, sorry, thanks for pointing me back to it.


----------



## qenya

kyeugh said:


> Keldeo said:
> 
> 
> 
> VM, if you are actually town, I'm sorry - it seems like a pretty rough position, I've been there more than once. But if you are town, I think you are right that it cracks the game open!
> 
> Either way, I'm pumped. We got this! \o/
> 
> 
> 
> echoing this sentiment, although keldeo, i'm curious what you mean by "cracks the game open"—what do you think we should do next if he flips green?
Click to expand...

I think Keldeo means, if VM flips green, that implicates everyone who contradicted him about something

Though tbh, with the number of people that would be, in that case I would be more suspicious of some kind of godfather-ish thing


----------



## tbh²

tbh² said:


> if i were cop i would probably never not vote my redcheck. i just wanted to understand why you still consider vm being villa a possibility, even if remote


fwiw as per my earlier fearvoting
i'd probably be nervously pacing still except that from my pov, i know that
w vm's check is wrong one way or another. the issues with the claim don't help

-m


----------



## Mawile

you guys get an extra *15 minutes* due to me being distracted at the moment and not at my computer to count votes


----------



## kyeugh

tbh² said:


> i’m not trying to convince you to move votes tbh. if i were cop i would probably never not vote my redcheck. i just wanted to understand why you still consider vm being villa a possibility, even if remote


 100% tone—his posting reminds me of how i felt during cats.  if he's telling the truth, i think this is how he would sound.  i think he's a good enough actor to fake this reaction either way, but it's still enough to give me pause.


----------



## tbh²

tbh² said:


> fwiw as per my earlier fearvoting
> i'd probably be nervously pacing still except that from my pov, i know that vm's check is wrong one way or another. the issues with the claim don't help


wtf linebreak. fixed


kokorico said:


> I think Keldeo means, if VM flips green, that implicates everyone who contradicted him about something
> 
> Though tbh, with the number of people that would be, in that case I would be more suspicious of some kind of godfather-ish thing


i agree tbh
-m


----------



## Vipera Magnifica

Thanks for the Warlock points, folks



Vipera Magnifica said:


> Hello everyone
> 
> I’d wager this is going to a very interesting game





Vipera Magnifica said:


> If I had to predict who’s being yeeted today, it’s probably not Despicable Meme or RNP, as much as I’d love it if that was all scum theater





Vipera Magnifica said:


> sometimes you gotta take a gamble and lie to try fooling the mafia





Vipera Magnifica said:


> @tbh² if Seshas flips wolf, who do you think will be the prime suspect for yeeting tomorrow? and what about if she flips town?


N0 I predicted Despicable Meme would get yeeted
N1 I predicted myself

I'm still playing from beyond the grave, so feel free to yeet kokorico tomorrow! I wouldn't waste your vig on em, my ability blocks that.

This has sure been a lot of fun. Thanks for eating right out of my hand!


----------



## kyeugh

bruh, we still have fifteen minutes left.

simply vote kokorico tbh


----------



## tbh²

lmfaoooo i even asked rari if she thought the wagertalk was a soft


----------



## tbh²

idk if i buy this tbh 'u'
but yeah. good luck if you aren’t lying.
- rari


----------



## tbh²

Vipera Magnifica said:


> I wouldn't waste your vig on em, my ability blocks that.


?
-m


----------



## tbh²

@Vipera Magnifica what’s your flavourquote?
- rari


----------



## Mawile

never mind my game ended and i lost >:(

*day 2 is now over
votes coming shortly*


----------



## RedneckPhoenix

hi vm is spouting bullshit bye


----------



## Vipera Magnifica

Mawile god damn it I almost had a heart attack when I posted that and saw you extended 15 minutes


----------



## tbh²

RedneckPhoenix said:


> hi vm is spouting bullshit bye


i am inclined to agree.
- rari


----------



## Mawile

Vipera Magnifica said:


> Mawile god damn it I almost had a heart attack when I posted that and saw you extended 15 minutes


i was playing a game and forgot about time okay


----------



## tbh²

if we don’t survive the night:
- once vm flips w, please look at hydrei
- PLEASE look at keldeo (sorry mewt had to include this one)
- there might be a framer or some other role that tampered with qva’s n0. vm suggesting it could be a gambit similar to keldeo in cats embracing dark fishing bros (deliberate discredit via wolf endorsement) (mewt pls don’t kill me for posting this)

we can make this tbh. let’s end this unlucky streak <3

- rari


----------



## RedneckPhoenix

bus drive me pls


----------



## tbh²

RedneckPhoenix said:


> bus drive me pls


only if it’s the ghost bus
the bus driver is dead, remember
- rari


----------



## RedneckPhoenix

oh yeah.


----------



## kyeugh

simply stop posting tbh


----------



## RedneckPhoenix

witness me


----------



## Vipera Magnifica

you should learn to fear my alien play


----------



## RedneckPhoenix

kyeugh said:


> simply stop posting tbh


the time between day end and votecount is free reign


----------



## RedneckPhoenix

Vipera Magnifica said:


> you should learn to fear my alien play


birds don't fear snakes


----------



## Mawile

*Vote History:*


Spoiler



JackPK voted Hydreigon25 (#933)
tbh^2 voted Hydreigon25 (#941)
Despicable Meme voted Hydreigon25 (#970)
kyeugh voted Hydreigon25 (#979)
RedneckPhoenix voted Hydreigon25 (#981)
Vipera Magnifica voted tbh^2 (#999)
Mist1422 voted tbh^2 (#1004)
JackPK voted tbh^2 (#1006)
JackPK voted Hydreigon25 (#1022)
kyeugh voted Vipera Magnifica (#1025)
Mist1422 voted nobody (#1027)
kyeugh voted kokorico (#1036)
RedneckPhoenix voted kokorico (#1038)
JackPK voted nobody (#1041)
RedneckPhoenix voted Vipera Magnifica (#1071)
Despicable Meme voted Vipera Magnifica (#1076)
JackPK voted kokorico (#1102)
Despicable Meme voted kokorico (#1103)
RedneckPhoenix voted kokorico (#1104)
kokorico voted Vipera Magnifica (#1119)
Mist1422 voted Vipera Magnifica (#1121)
Vipera Magnifica voted kyeugh (#1125)
RedneckPhoenix voted Vipera Magnifica (#1129)
kyeugh voted Vipera Magnifica (#1132)
Mist1422 voted Vipera Magnifica (#1135)
Despicable Meme voted Vipera Magnifica (#1190)
tbh^2 voted Vipera Magnifica (#1210)
kyeugh voted kokorico (#1246)
tbh^2 voted kokorico (#1250)
RedneckPhoenix voted Vipera Magnifica (#1253)
Despicable Meme voted kokorico (#1331)
Butterfree voted Vipera Magnifica (#1346)
tbh^2 voted Vipera Magnifica (#1356)
Keldeo voted Vipera Magnifica (#1358)
JackPK voted Vipera Magnifica (#1372)
Hydreigon25 voted Vipera Magnifica (#1375)
storm voted Vipera Magnifica (#1383)



*Active Votes (+ post numbers):*


Spoiler



kokorico voted Vipera Magnifica (#1119)
Vipera Magnifica voted kyeugh (#1125)
Mist1422 voted Vipera Magnifica (#1135)
kyeugh voted kokorico (#1246)
RedneckPhoenix voted Vipera Magnifica (#1253)
Despicable Meme voted kokorico (#1331)
Butterfree voted Vipera Magnifica (#1346)
tbh^2 voted Vipera Magnifica (#1356)
Keldeo voted Vipera Magnifica (#1358)
JackPK voted Vipera Magnifica (#1372)
Hydreigon25 voted Vipera Magnifica (#1375)
storm voted Vipera Magnifica (#1383)



*Vote Count:*
Vipera Magnifica (9): kokorico (#1119), Mist1422 (#1135), RedneckPhoenix (#1253), Butterfree (#1346), tbh^2 (#1356), Keldeo (#1358), JackPK (#1372), Hydreigon25 (#1375), storm (#1383)
kokorico (2): kyeugh (#1246), Despicable Meme (#1331)
kyeugh (1): Vipera Magnifica (#1125)
(Nonvoters: IndigoEmmy, Trebek, Seshas)

as usual PM me in 15 minutes if this is wrong etc etc
i will resume playing salmon run for the next 15 minutes and then post EoD post


----------



## RedneckPhoenix

dude i love salmon run add me to yr lobby


----------



## Hydreigon25

tbh² said:


> Hydreigon25 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> tbh² said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hydreigon25 said:
> 
> 
> 
> i just think we should have waited until D3 for more information about VM but it's fine otherwise
> 
> 
> 
> what information were you expecting to get?
> - rari
> 
> (longpost in the works btw)
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> i was hoping we could find out info on VM during D3, provided VM is Not a Mafia target N2 thereby possibly confirming him town but it basically is currently a theory atm
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> sorry, i feel like you haven’t really answered to my question. _what information_ were you expecting to get?
> - rari
Click to expand...

I just thought we should've focused more on kokorico but EoD is near ​


----------



## Hydreigon25

if VM flips town then kokorico/wolf might target someone during the night ​


----------



## RedneckPhoenix

no shit


----------



## JackPK

Mawile said:


> *day 2 is now over*


----------



## Hydreigon25

if i'm wrong & both were town I will personally self-sacrifice myself


----------



## Butterfree

It would be really nice if everyone would respect the actual end of the day and actually stop making gameplay-relevant posts.


----------



## Hydreigon25

however if both VM & kokorico are town and​ i self sacrifice myself then we'll be down 3 town people


----------



## Mawile

*End of Day 2*​
The day begins with much deliberation right out of the gate. The local Hydreigon is offered up as a sacrifice to the Hell Pit at first, but then the tides slowly change.

The local snake, Vipera Magnifica offers up a redcheck on the town's hydra-Espurr, tbh^2, and chaos ensues.

From there, the snake proceeds to argue up a storm with basically everyone in the town, even stating that the Mayor himself gave him straight answers to his questions. The Mayor laughs, while eating salad, and forgets to finish up some of his writing before sending it out. The votes slowly come in for Vipera Magnifica as he tries to dig himself out of the hole he's put himself in.

Eventually, the town comes to a conclusion at sunset: the snake needs to go. The town, as per usual, hoists him up on their shoulders and brings him over to the local Hell Pit, overseen by the Mayor. He squirms out of their grip and grabs the Mayor by the shoulder, drops his house key in the Mayor's hand, and whispers in his ear a single word: "poggers".

He uncerimonously flings himself into the Hell Pit, and the town sits in silence for a moment. Is that supposed to be an admission of guilt...?

The mayor hands off the snake's key to the nearest townsperson, who then leads the march over to Vipera Magnifica's house, which is of course adorned with snakes. The townsperson unlocks the door, and walks in to an utterly confusing sight.

He has no furniture, and his walls are covered in newspaper clippings and strings connecting them, and they all seem to be completely unrelated. He's got a section about balloons, strung together to a page torn out of a book about human sacrifices, and that's strung to a page about the legal punishment for serial killers. Other miscellaneous articles he's got include pages and pages about different gods, stories about how people got away with murder, studies about the existence of souls and their weight, and one large-print article about knot-tying.

The town murmurs. What was he up to?

One person looks closer at a single paper duct taped on the inside of his door. The paper has a single phrase written on it, "# RIGHT", with a single tally below it. 

Despite the sheer amount of insanity found pinned to the walls of his house, nobody can find anything legitimately incriminating. He must have been innocent, says someone at the back of the crowd inside his house.

Everybody disappointedly walks out of his house.

*Vipera Magnifica is dead. He was not mafia.
Night 2 begins now, and will last 24 hours, until 5pm Pacific on July 26rd/midnight UTC on July 27th.*



Spoiler: Summary



N0: Nobody died.
D1: Seshas died. She was mafia.
N1: Trebek died. He was not mafia.
D2: Vipera Magnifica is dead. He was not mafia.





Spoiler: Pings



@Mist1422
@Keldeo
@Despicable Meme
@storm
@kyeugh
@Vipera Magnifica
@IndigoEmmy
@kokorico
@Trebek
@tbh²
@Butterfree
@JackPK
@RedneckPhoenix
@Seshas
@Hydreigon25


----------



## Hydreigon25

basically I am saying that if I wrong about either 1 or both VM/kokorico being mafia then i'll self sacrifice myself for the good of the town by baiting the mafia to target me during the night ​


----------



## Mawile

Mawile said:


> next 15 minutes


imagine having a sense of time tbh


----------



## Vipera Magnifica




----------



## kyeugh

Hydreigon25 said:


> basically I am saying that if I wrong about either 1 or both VM/
> kokorico being mafia then i'll self sacrifice myself for the good of the town by baiting the mafia to target me during the night


stop posting!!!!!


----------



## Hydreigon25

edit: mafia target me tonight ​


----------



## Mawile

Hydreigon25 said:


> edit:
> mafia target me tonight


shhhh go to sleep it is now night


----------



## Mawile

*DAY 3*​
The morning is cloudy and dark, and it looks as if the rain could pour down upon the town at any moment. A slight fog is overlaid over everything, making it hard to see very far.

It's the perfect day to find dead bodies, probably.

A sign lies in the square, hammered into the ground, and reads as follows:


> Hydra is likely aligned with town.


Someone clearly put it in the ground last night.

The townspeople make their way over to the square, gathering around the sign, and the mayor does the morning's head count. Something is off, though: there's more people missing than usual. Two, to be exact. The crowd murmurs to itself, and slowly figures out who the two missing townspeople are.

The first one lives in what can certainly be described as a house. It's painted in blue, pink, and white, and has a bunch of minion toys scattered around the yard. The townspeople knock on the door of Despicable Meme's house, only to find it unlocked. Inside, their body is torn to shreds, and the townspeople do their best to look for any incriminating evidence.

Nothing is found, except for a bunch of wood and instructions on how to build wagons in their backyard. Strange, sure, but nothing indicative of criminal activity. Just a hobby.

The second person lives in a nice, tidy mansion right at the edge of the beach. Like before, his door is unlocked, and the townspeople cautiously step in. JackPK is found dead, floating in his pool in his very spacious backyard, crushed to death by... something. There's nothing around that could have crushed him, so it must have been cleaned up by whoever killed him.

The townspeople sift through his belongings, filled with papers and bills, and find nothing incriminating. Someone finds a last will, sealed in an envelope with a red wax seal, and hands it off to the mayor to ensure its validity. It has to be analyzed first before it can be revealed, since there's plenty of people around who are more than willing to forge the last will of the richest person in town.

Everyone returns to the town square. A new day has begun, and more and more of their own die each day. The mayor begins to dig two more graves.

*Day 3 has begun. 
Despicable Meme has died. They were not mafia. 
JackPK has died. He was not mafia.
Day 3 will end in 48 hours, at 5pm Pacific on July 28th and midnight UTC on July 29th.*



Spoiler: pings



@Mist1422
@Keldeo
@Despicable Meme
@storm
@kyeugh
@Vipera Magnifica
@IndigoEmmy
@kokorico
@Trebek
@tbh²
@Butterfree
@JackPK
@RedneckPhoenix
@Seshas
@Hydreigon25


----------



## Novae

sup nerds

kyeugh is a legit cop

I have a red check, but I'm going to hold off on outing it


----------



## qenya

good news guys


----------



## tbh²

>:(


----------



## storm

ohhh no


----------



## kyeugh

Mist1422 said:


> I have a red check, but I'm going to hold off on outing it


 very curious about this.  i have another red check too, which either means i'm getting very lucky or i'm insane/paranoid.


----------



## kyeugh

kyeugh said:


> i'm insane/paranoid


btw, i'm currently assuming this is the case because if my results were legit, i'd probably be dead.  wanna say koko/my other red check are v for now?  if that's the case, i'll have a pretty narrowed down POE, which isn't a bad thing.  hopefully i'm not paranoid.


----------



## tbh²

kyeugh said:


> if my results were legit, i'd probably be dead


tbqh the mafia may have not targetted you because you were the most likely to be protected by a doctor toNight.
- rari


----------



## tbh²

Mawile said:


> Despicable Meme has died. They were not mafia.
> JackPK has died. He was not mafia.


so, vig?
-m


----------



## Novae

actually

if we're considering paranoid I'm just going to out that my red check is on Butterfree


----------



## Novae

Essentially, the more notable part of it is that kyeugh is a legit cop and therefore a likely villager


----------



## kyeugh

Mist1422 said:


> if we're considering paranoid I'm just going to out that my red check is on Butterfree


oh, mine too.  welp.


----------



## Novae

Mist1422
Keldeo
storm
kyeugh
IndigoEmmy
kokorico
tbh²
Butterfree
RedneckPhoenix
Hydreigon25

alive


----------



## Novae

I'm pretty sure VM was 3p, so 3 more mafia?

I think there is honestly a chance both redchecks are real and I don't see a better way to prove that than starting with pushing *Butterfree*


----------



## kyeugh

me too thanks *butterfree*


----------



## storm

ooof yeah that looks. damning

*butterfree*


----------



## kyeugh

universe brain tinfoil: i am paranoid/insane, mafia knows it, there is a mafia tracker (hence rnp's role), that tracker is mist, mist just watched me last night to see who i checked and came in here to preemptively validate my read to push along the mislynch at lightning speed


----------



## Novae

{Mist, kyeugh}
{Emmy, tbh^2???, Keldeo, RNP}
{Hydre, storm}
{koko?}
{Butterfree}


----------



## Novae

kyeugh said:


> universe brain tinfoil: i am paranoid/insane, mafia knows it, there is a mafia tracker (hence rnp's role), that tracker is mist, mist just watched me last night to see who i checked and came in here to preemptively validate my read to push along the mislynch at lightning speed


that implies there would be a role as straightforward as mafia tracker in this setup


----------



## tbh²

Mist1422 said:


> Essentially, the more notable part of it is that kyeugh is a legit cop and therefore a likely villager


wait, so if i understand correctly you’re saying that you are not a cop, but your role allows you to glean information on the alignment of your targets, correct? in that case, before voting, i would like to know in a scale from 0 to 100 how sure are you about your redcheck being legit
- rari


----------



## qenya

kyeugh said:


> universe brain tinfoil: i am paranoid/insane, mafia knows it, there is a mafia tracker (hence rnp's role), that tracker is mist, mist just watched me last night to see who i checked and came in here to preemptively validate my read to push along the mislynch at lightning speed


Honestly it's as plausible as anything anyone else has suggested. From my PoV, at least.

I would be interested to know if RNP used his claim-forcing-thing at all last night, because I would've thought I would be the obvious target, but nothing of the sort happened.

*Butterfree*, pending any additional information that comes out.


----------



## Hydreigon25

*Butterfree*​


----------



## storm

I tracked keldeo last night, once again no targeting to report

sorry guys, I wish I had more I could contribute from that


----------



## Novae

tbh² said:


> Mist1422 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Essentially, the more notable part of it is that kyeugh is a legit cop and therefore a likely villager
> 
> 
> 
> wait, so if i understand correctly you’re saying that you are not a cop, but your role allows you to glean information on the alignment of your targets, correct? in that case, before voting, i would like to know in a scale from 0 to 100 how sure are you about your redcheck being legit
> - rari
Click to expand...

nope!

I used kyeugh's action last night


----------



## Hydreigon25

Also let's revisit the list



Hydreigon25 said:


> Seshas said:
> 
> 
> 
> RedneckPhoenix
> Despicable Meme
> tbh²
> Trebek
> Hydreigon
> kokorico
> JackPK
> 
> 
> 
> 
> After careful consideration i have reason to believe this was a possible mafia hit-list & anyone. not on that list could be mafia
Click to expand...

i still think that ^



Mist1422 said:


> Mist1422
> Keldeo
> storm
> kyeugh
> IndigoEmmy
> kokorico
> tbh²
> Butterfree
> RedneckPhoenix
> Hydreigon25
> 
> alive


of the 4 underlined names probably is Mafia ( im not saying kokorico is cleared yet. just that we shouldn't waste anymore town )


----------



## Hydreigon25

Basically we need to check out / review All of the the underlined names ISO before EoD to determine the ones that are likely to be town


----------



## tbh²

Mist1422 said:


> tbh² said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mist1422 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Essentially, the more notable part of it is that kyeugh is a legit cop and therefore a likely villager
> 
> 
> 
> wait, so if i understand correctly you’re saying that you are not a cop, but your role allows you to glean information on the alignment of your targets, correct? in that case, before voting, i would like to know in a scale from 0 to 100 how sure are you about your redcheck being legit
> - rari
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> nope!
> 
> I used kyeugh's action last night
Click to expand...

in that case, *butterfree*
- rari


----------



## Novae

butterfree mafia > kokorico almost always mafia
butterfree town > kokorico...likely town? not confirmed

I do think we should also wait for RNP too


----------



## tbh²

Mist1422 said:


> I do think we should also wait for RNP too


oh, yeah! i wonder who he chose to public copcheck today.
there’s a chance he was roleblocked, though… if he wasn’t i’d dare to say the mafia doesn’t have a roleblocker
- rari


----------



## Novae

actually here's an opinion

if RNP was roleblocked and kyeugh was not, it's quite possible that might clear koko? because mafia would think kyeugh is a legit cop if koko is mafia

though then again they may think a public cop is more of a threat


----------



## Hydreigon25

Day 1's

*Vote Count:​*
 Seshas (4): ​*JackPK*​, ​*Despicable Meme*​, Trebek, kokorico
 kokorico (3): Seshas, Mist1422, kyeugh
 Despicable Meme (1): Vipera Magnifica
 RedneckPhoenix (1): Butterfree
 tbh^2 (1): RedneckPhoenix

@Mist1422 @kyeugh what was your reason for voting with Seshas against kokorico & not against Seshas D1 ?​


----------



## Novae

because I confirmed seshas gave me a sandwich n0 and a mafia sandwich vendor with no other effect felt silly at best


----------



## tbh²

Hydreigon25 said:


> ( im not saying kokorico is cleared yet. just that we shouldn't waste anymore town )


er, is this considering that kokorico inspected as mafia?
-m


----------



## tbh²

also @IndigoEmmy hey! curious to hear whatever thoughts you might have, if you've been able to read anything! hope all is well :^)

-m


----------



## kyeugh

Hydreigon25 said:


> @Mist1422 @kyeugh what was your reason for voting with Seshas against kokorico & not against Seshas D1 ?


 i had a red check on kokorico…?


----------



## Butterfree

Well that’s. Odd.

I have not been informed that I’m a miller? ?_? I don’t have the energy for this, I’m currently on my phone waiting for the codeine to kick in so I can sleep. Will try to contribute tomorrow if I’m not dead by then.


----------



## RedneckPhoenix

>:(


----------



## RedneckPhoenix

i used my oneshot on jack.


----------



## RedneckPhoenix

Hydreigon25 said:


> Day 1's
> 
> 
> *Vote Count:*
> 
> Seshas (4):
> 
> *JackPK*
> 
> ,
> 
> *Despicable Meme*
> 
> , Trebek, kokorico
> kokorico (3): Seshas, Mist1422, kyeugh
> Despicable Meme (1): Vipera Magnifica
> RedneckPhoenix (1): Butterfree
> tbh^2 (1): RedneckPhoenix
> 
> @Mist1422 @kyeugh what was your reason for voting with Seshas against kokorico & not against Seshas D1 ?


fucking STOP


----------



## RedneckPhoenix

*hydre *


----------



## RedneckPhoenix

of note: i still have the charge


i asked the gm "what if they die" and my response was "can't tell you that, fucker"


----------



## RedneckPhoenix

although..............

tinfoil time: the "recharge one-shot" ability is actually "turn a one-shot into a nightkill"


----------



## tbh²

it kinda puzzles me why people were side-eyeing jack tbh
he was one of my highest townreads and, if flavour consistency is a thing, hmf seems to be the mafia kill – which means that he was likely vigged



RedneckPhoenix said:


> of note: i still have the charge


maybe you shouldn’t have said this ಠ_ಠ

- rari


----------



## kyeugh

yeah i agree with you re jack, makes me wonder if it wasn’t a vig


----------



## tbh²

considering that rnp found him worthy of a public copcheck, i am inclined to believe there was something about him that people found suspicious that either we didn’t pick up on or we didn’t find scummy
if it wasn’t a vig, what do you think it could be?
- rari


----------



## RedneckPhoenix

i thought of someone who was unlikely to be killed but also wasn't afk for the entire game


----------



## RedneckPhoenix

tbh² said:


> it kinda puzzles me why people were side-eyeing jack tbh
> he was one of my highest townreads and, if flavour consistency is a thing, hmf seems to be the mafia kill – which means that he was likely vigged
> 
> 
> 
> RedneckPhoenix said:
> 
> 
> 
> of note: i still have the charge
> 
> 
> 
> maybe you shouldn’t have said this ಠ_ಠ
> 
> - rari
Click to expand...

i do what i want


----------



## Keldeo

Eyyy. I hope I'm not jinxing anything by saying this seems pretty sweet.

I trust kyeugh overall from her yesterday, but I'd be remiss not to say I'm hmming a bit at the actions' sanity cause I thought both Butterfree and koko were probably not partners with Seshas based on their d1s...

If the checks are true and we had w/w wagons all day 1, I really have no idea what mafia did ~nothing about it or why Butterfree seemed so something that EOD. Maybe one of w/w Seshas/koko would've been outgroup explaining the former, but it doesn't look like mafia really pushed either wagon as an alternative (Seshas wagon being mostly town, koko not going over). Could be an absent partner (= Emmy or Hydreigon or someone as the probable last one?) or I might just be misreading amount that mafia would self-preserve? 

If the checks aren't necessarily trustworthy - if they're paranoid and say nothing about koko/Butterfree's alignments, I suppose I believe in koko/Seshas not w/w more than Butterfree/Seshas, so it could be that Butterfree is still mafia with koko being town? If they're insane and mean koko/Butterfree are v/v, I do think that condenses the POE a lot, so I'll look more into that after sleep.



kokorico said:


> kyeugh said:
> 
> 
> 
> universe brain tinfoil: i am paranoid/insane, mafia knows it, there is a mafia tracker (hence rnp's role), that tracker is mist, mist just watched me last night to see who i checked and came in here to preemptively validate my read to push along the mislynch at lightning speed
> 
> 
> 
> Honestly it's as plausible as anything anyone else has suggested. From my PoV, at least.
> 
> I would be interested to know if RNP used his claim-forcing-thing at all last night, because I would've thought I would be the obvious target, but nothing of the sort happened.
> 
> *Butterfree*, pending any additional information that comes out.
Click to expand...

@kokorico I think you have a unique POV here that I'm not sure I understand right now, can you expand on why you're voting Butterfree?



storm said:


> I tracked keldeo last night, once again no targeting to report
> 
> sorry guys, I wish I had more I could contribute from that


Can confirm this report is accurate, ftr. @storm, actually, do you have any thoughts you've yet to share that aren't related to mechanics? 



RedneckPhoenix said:


> Hydreigon25 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Day 1's
> 
> 
> *Vote Count:*
> 
> Seshas (4):
> 
> *JackPK*
> 
> ,
> 
> *Despicable Meme*
> 
> , Trebek, kokorico
> kokorico (3): Seshas, Mist1422, kyeugh
> Despicable Meme (1): Vipera Magnifica
> RedneckPhoenix (1): Butterfree
> tbh^2 (1): RedneckPhoenix
> 
> @Mist1422 @kyeugh what was your reason for voting with Seshas against kokorico & not against Seshas D1 ?
> 
> 
> 
> fucking STOP
Click to expand...

Come on, dude. I'm suspicious of them too and maybe their formatting could be better, but they don't deserve to continue to be sworn at...

I do actually wonder if this quoted post is TMIing koko as town because like... hmm. @Hydreigon25, why do you see voting for kokorico and not for Seshas as suspicious? What do you think kokorico and Butterfree's alignments are?



tbh² said:


> considering that rnp found him worthy of a public copcheck, i am inclined to believe there was something about him that people found suspicious that either we didn’t pick up on or we didn’t find scummy
> if it wasn’t a vig, what do you think it could be?
> - rari


I mean I thought Jack was pretty villagery at least on a surface level, but I feel like maybe other people didn't share that opinion. I'm not really sure what could account for a second death besides a vig, though? So I'd echo that question to kyeugh. 

Also, just to make sure I'm understanding correctly, VM was probably a third party who bet on his own death yesterday and everything he claimed was BS, right. rip like all the mech analysis I did yesterday.

Does voting *Butterfree* make this a unanimous wagon besides Butterfree herself and Emmy, haha.


----------



## tbh²

Keldeo said:


> Does voting *Butterfree* make this a unanimous wagon besides Butterfree herself and Emmy, haha.


rnp is voting hydrei
- rari


----------



## Keldeo

Oh, lol, oops.



Spoiler: the joke isn't that good but I had to commit to the bit.






kyeugh said:


> i mostly hope vm flips red for his sake, because if he's actually town, he will either have to shell out or spend the rest of his life getting chased down by tcod loansharks.  and you don't want to cross those guys, trust me.


qva: Hail, good forumgoers. I come to you with a simple query. I seek a read source for use in yeeting a mafia name from scratch. Knowst any from among your ranks of such an application?

Vipera Magnifica: God be with ye! I do know of such an implement, as chance would have it. It is called My Night 1 Red Check. Unfortunately, a single factor obstructs its convenient use: I first require the creation of an account linked to your forum persona.

qva: Forsooth? Tell me more of this "obstructing" factor.

Vipera Magnifica: First you will need to privately inform me of your forum username and password. Privacy is of the utmost importance, of course. Following this, I shall bestow upon you a Scumreades List, which will initiate the installation procedure.

qva: Be this all?

Vipera Magnifica: Nay! I have also a Nigerian bank account, holding 100 Australian dollars, from which I will transfer to you funds if my Reades are incorrect. Please send me your bank information, and I shall arrange a transfer posthaste.

qva: Oho! But of course, petulant troll. No matter, my "trustworthy" fiend - I will simply transfer my sensitive details to a true stranger in exchange for a dubious implement as well as one hundred dollarinoes which exist not. Preposterous! I hope dearly that this transgression leads to your yeeting from the premises, you miscreant.

Vipera Magnifica: Fret not! I can assure you in earnest that My Night 1 Red Check does in fact exist. Here is an etching my scribe created of my motion detector in action. Do feast your eyes upon it, good patron.

qva: Aäaäh, heavens to the virgin above! This is your best attempt at pulling the wool over my pure, unadulterated Childe Eyes? Pathetic as the clay beneath my vulgar feet, you writhing warlock. Your scribe's handwriting is abysmal! Laughable, I do declare! Ohohoho!


----------



## Butterfree

Right, so.

From my point of view, I think probably the simplest explanation is just that kyeugh really is paranoid/insane? Presumably Mist copying her action will act with the same sanity, and without explaining that it is insane/paranoid (I assume you were just told something like "Butterfree's alignment is mafia"?). I thought last night that this had to be more complicated than that but nah.

Presumably there can't have been redirection since we've seen what that looks like...? Don't have the spoons to go back and check but that was a thing we established, right, that if an inspection is redirected you see who you actually inspected.

I expect then the only other real possibility is either I'm an uninformed miller, or somebody, like, targeted me with a millerizing action, which I guess _could_ exist in this game but is going a bit far with the speculation. Paranoid/insane seems more sensible.


----------



## qenya

Keldeo said:


> @kokorico I think you have a unique POV here that I'm not sure I understand right now, can you expand on why you're voting Butterfree?


Oh, I don't think it's anywhere near as bizarre as you're imagining, haha. Earlier I said that the only way kyeugh's check lined up with my alignment was if there were shenanigans involving at least one of {sanities, redirectors, millers}. Mist's independent confirmation of kyeugh's check on Butterfree seemed to eliminate the first possibility, since _two_ insane cops seemed a bit much even for this game, so I was figuring that the check on Butterfree was most likely legit, and the check on me was probably affected by something else.

But if Mist was just copying kyeugh's action, rather than using a copcheck of her own, then I guess she would copy kyeugh's sanity too. So we're back to square one, hmm.


----------



## storm

I saw your question keldeo, I just have. another goddamn headache so I will try to answer when I am more alive

hopefully there will not be any big revelations while I sleep


----------



## kyeugh

Keldeo said:


> I mean I thought Jack was pretty villagery at least on a surface level, but I feel like maybe other people didn't share that opinion. I'm not really sure what could account for a second death besides a vig, though? So I'd echo that question to kyeugh.


 not too sure.  if it's not a vig kill i suspect we probably won't find out what caused it until the end of the game.  i was kinda just sounding off because it seemed like a weird target to me, though, especially since the vig didn't fire for the first two nights even though i or someone else might have been a more logical target n1 than jack was last night


----------



## qenya

I have to say, in hindsight, I'm a bit  about the suddenness with which the wagon gained traction. as was pointed out above, _literally everyone_ is voting for bfree now except herself and rnp (and indigoemmy), so either the mafia are bussing for no good reason (we're not even sure kyeugh is sane!) or she is not in fact mafia.

I can't think of any better targets atm, though. Unless anyone wants to try to read anything into this:


Mawile said:


> A sign lies in the square, hammered into the ground, and reads as follows:
> 
> 
> 
> Hydra is likely aligned with town.
> 
> 
> 
> Someone clearly put it in the ground last night.
Click to expand...


----------



## Novae

I'm thinking if bfree and koko are both scum there would be an attempt to discredit me/kyeugh somehow

maybe this is it


----------



## tbh²

kokorico said:


> Unless anyone wants to try to read anything into this:


hydreigon claimed town messenger
so maybe that's relevant
-m


----------



## kyeugh

if my results aren't accurate, i want to say i'm insane.  i'm kind of doubting that i'm paranoid here, because afaict that would probably just leave town with no investigative role?  i don't really buy that tbh, it just makes my role worse than useless and doesn't even provide any ~drama~ about conflicting claims or anything for mawile's viewing pleasure.

if my results are reliable, well, we just yeet koko and butterfree and that's that i guess?  if not, then i'm probably insane, and we're looking at something like:

Mist1422 - power duplicator?
Keldeo
storm - tracker
kyeugh - witness
IndigoEmmy
kokorico - town via my check
tbh²
Butterfree - town via my check
RedneckPhoenix - silencer, probably town?
Hydreigon25 - messenger
factoring in tone reads, i think my reads list (if i'm insane) is:


Spoiler: reads (basically ordered)



*never yeet*
me
koko
butterfree

*prefer not to yeet*
tbh²
storm
rnp

*maybe yeet*
mist
keldeo

*the yeet zone*
hydreigon
emmy


guess i'll put a vote on *IndigoEmmy* for now, since i don't really see how we're ever going to resolve her without a flip? @IndigoEmmy, come play bitte!


----------



## Novae

storm/tbh^2 being scum are certainly worlds

not fun ones but ones that are probably a good consideration to make?


----------



## kyeugh

honestly yeah.  i don't think i'm getting there today, though.  how close are we to losing, exactly...


----------



## tbh²

okay, soooo, it seems like this is a good time to claim ...
we are the oracle tbh!


Spoiler: flavorquote






Seshas said:


> *YES. Snowboards* is manufacturer of snowboards.[1][2] It was founded in 2009 and is based in Europe.[3][4]
> 
> YES. Snowboards Inc.
> 
> TypePrivateIndustrySporting goodsFounded2009HeadquartersSwitzerlandKey peopleRomain De Marchi, JP Solberg, DCPProductsSnowboard equipment, apparel, accessoriesNumber of employees20Websitehttp://www.yesnowboard.com/





and according to king mawile, we're the Incarnation of Wikipedia or whatever. but especially of YES. Snowboards Inc. we can ask a question a night and mawile replies with a wikipedia article because of course he does.

_*on n0,*_


> how many outgroup mafia-aligned slots are there?


to which mawile replied with




__





						Zero page - Wikipedia
					






					en.wikipedia.org
				



_*on n1,*_


> how many distinct third-party wincons are there in the game?


to which mawile replied with




__





						Unary numeral system - Wikipedia
					






					en.wikipedia.org
				



_*on n2*_*,*


> how many roles are there in this game that may result in inaccurate cop results, (e.g. framers/godfathers/non-regular sanity cop)?


to which mawile replied with








						Zero-dimensional space - Wikipedia
					






					en.wikipedia.org
				




-m


----------



## tbh²

most crucially (and the reason we're claiming now) is that the n2 answer seems to indicate that a) skylar is legit, and b) there is no miller or something like that in setup. so ... we won't be moving votes, bfree/koko should be the lock lynches right now.

-m


----------



## tbh²

btw, our tierlisting in 431 was our flavorsoft :)

-m


----------



## qenya

so I was about to go "oh shit, it's a perfectly calculated fakeclaim" and vote for you, dreading the thought that you were probably just believable enough for this to be the final straw that would win the game for mafia

and then I re-read, realised this is exactly the sort of game where mawile would interpret your questions exactly and literally, and, well



tbh² said:


> _*on n2*_*,*
> 
> 
> 
> how many roles are there in this game that may result in inaccurate cop results, (e.g. framers/godfathers/non-regular sanity cop)?
> 
> 
> 
> to which mawile replied with
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Zero-dimensional space - Wikipedia
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> en.wikipedia.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> -m
Click to expand...

you may remember that kyeugh is not, in fact, a cop, but a _witness_

there are no "roles that may result in inaccurate cop results" because there are no cop results at all


----------



## kyeugh

kokorico said:


> there are no "roles that may result in inaccurate cop results" because there are no cop results at all


 this is something tbh.

gonna need to think about this a bit.


----------



## tbh²

>:


----------



## storm

wait what


----------



## kyeugh

i don’t NOT believe you, tbh², i’m just hesitant to believe i got two accurate redchecks, and koko’s point isn’t a bad one. i guess yeeting one of koko/bfree is as good a way to find out as any, though...?


----------



## tbh²

kyeugh said:


> i don’t NOT believe you, tbh², i’m just hesitant to believe i got two accurate redchecks, and koko’s point isn’t a bad one. i guess yeeting one of koko/bfree is as good a way to find out as any, though...?


maybe bfree getting flipped first makes more sense then, since you and mist separately got the check? and then figure things out from there

-m


----------



## Novae

i got explicitly told butterfree's alignment after directly targeting butterfree with the ability

I don't see how that wouldn't be a cop


----------



## qenya

Mist1422 said:


> i got explicitly told butterfree's alignment after directly targeting butterfree with the ability
> 
> I don't see how that wouldn't be a cop


this is the role kyeugh claimed earlier


----------



## kyeugh

tbh² said:


> maybe bfree getting flipped first makes more sense then, since you and mist separately got the check?


we didn’t get them separately aiui, mist got my result.


Mist1422 said:


> i got explicitly told butterfree's alignment after directly targeting butterfree with the ability
> 
> I don't see how that wouldn't be a cop


i’m not technically a “““cop,””” i’m a witness. so there would be no cop checks, only witness ones.


----------



## Novae

the 3p thing is actually very helpful

it's a fair assumption to say that was VM right

so probably 3 group scum and _maybe_ one outgroup?


----------



## kyeugh

there’s no outgroup, that was tbh²’s first question


----------



## Novae

oh right

3 scum then I think


----------



## Novae

actually

how sure are we that tbh^2's claim is legit?

I think if bfree flips town I would maybe look at tbh^2 next


----------



## storm

okay I am still headachey but why is mawile so iconic hdhsjajaj


----------



## qenya

Mist1422 said:


> how sure are we that tbh^2's claim is legit?


I don't know, the effort it would have taken is frankly pretty impressive. And also I think chances are scumchat would have picked up the problem with the phrasing.

I guess it's _possible_ that it's faked, but I'm more inclined to believe them than not, especially given the self-satisfaction with which they presented it.


----------



## qenya

kokorico said:


> the self-satisfaction with which they presented it


(I mean this in a nice way tbc! it's a lovely feeling when you get to present evidence you're _sure_ will crack the game open.)


----------



## Novae

kokorico said:


> Mist1422 said:
> 
> 
> 
> how sure are we that tbh^2's claim is legit?
> 
> 
> 
> I don't know, the effort it would have taken is frankly pretty impressive. And also I think chances are scumchat would have picked up the problem with the phrasing.
> 
> I guess it's _possible_ that it's faked, but I'm more inclined to believe them than not, especially given the self-satisfaction with which they presented it.
Click to expand...

that was my thought as well honestly

but like, I think the witness logic is too pedantic to be real and I want to townread you anyway ughhhhhhh


----------



## Novae

why can't i have rolled alien in this smh


----------



## Mawile

Mist1422 said:


> why can't i have rolled alien in this smh


it's ok maybe someday i'll run a game where everyone is aliens and i modkill people to activate them if i think it would be funny


----------



## tbh²

Mist1422 said:


> how sure are we that tbh^2's claim is legit?


let me propose you an offer… give us a very specific detail from your flavour that only you and mawile would know if it’s true or not. next night, we’ll ask “does the rolecard of the player who has the ability to recharge their target’s oneshot mention X?”. we’ll give you the result tomorrow and you’ll validate our claim or not.

i propose this because we can’t think of any more mech-related questions that would be of use.

- rari


----------



## qenya

Mawile said:


> Mist1422 said:
> 
> 
> 
> why can't i have rolled alien in this smh
> 
> 
> 
> it's ok maybe someday i'll run a game where everyone is aliens and i modkill people to activate them if i think it would be funny
Click to expand...

mafia: aliens vs serial killers


----------



## qenya

tbh² said:


> i propose this because we can’t think of any more mech-related questions that would be of use.


I mean you could just ask the same question again but with "witness" instead of "cop"

or even make it more specific/ironclad

"is there any mechanism by which kyeugh could receive a message falsely indicating a player's alignment"


----------



## qenya

kokorico said:


> "is there any mechanism by which kyeugh could receive a message falsely indicating a player's alignment"


oh, no, maybe not that exact wording, 'cause of whatever hydreigon's doing

but you get the idea


----------



## tbh²

if i'm following everything correctly, bfree's flip should take care of it though, i think? unless skylar is like. a paranoid witness lol. but meh


kokorico said:


> "is there any mechanism by which kyeugh could receive a message falsely indicating a player's alignment"


doesn't work for oracle since this q wouldn't be for setup pre-rand

-m


----------



## kyeugh

tbh² said:


> doesn't work for oracle since this q wouldn't be for setup pre-rand


say "the witness" instead then.  echoing koko's sentiment that this is probably the best use of your power unless you have a better idea.  maybe just something like "does the witness necessarily always receive accurate results about their target's alignment"


----------



## kyeugh

Mist1422 said:


> but like, I think the witness logic is too pedantic to be real and I want to townread you anyway ughhhhhhh


 i don't think it's too pedantic to be real by any stretch of the imagination, if i were a bastardy gm and someone sent me a question like this i'd probably be like "haha lol" and then laugh in deadchat about it

the alternative is that i've accurately identified two wolves, which, idk, if that's the case then i think we can afford to make a mistake or two in order to be completely sure.  if it's NOT the case and we charge along assuming it is that puts us at a pretty significant disadvantage


----------



## Novae

tbh² said:


> Mist1422 said:
> 
> 
> 
> how sure are we that tbh^2's claim is legit?
> 
> 
> 
> let me propose you an offer… give us a very specific detail from your flavour that only you and mawile would know if it’s true or not. next night, we’ll ask “does the rolecard of the player who has the ability to recharge their target’s oneshot mention X?”. we’ll give you the result tomorrow and you’ll validate our claim or not.
> 
> i propose this because we can’t think of any more mech-related questions that would be of use.
> 
> - rari
Click to expand...

isn't it probably better if you ask like "is there a town tracker/announcer/whatever claimed role you want to confirm in the game"


----------



## Keldeo

Catching up real quick, I'll try to make some time to dig into this tonight but it may not end up happening until tomorrow, sorry!



storm said:


> I saw your question keldeo, I just have. another goddamn headache so I will try to answer when I am more alive
> 
> hopefully there will not be any big revelations while I sleep


Aw, I'm sorry to hear that! No worries, take as long as you need.


----------



## Keldeo

Mist1422 said:


> I'm thinking if bfree and koko are both scum there would be an attempt to discredit me/kyeugh somehow
> 
> maybe this is it


I'm a bit confused, do you mean the message of the sign? Or that you think like mafia Butterfree's teammates are bussing to get us to WIFOM ourselves out of it? I think the latter is possible, but also I feel like the people who have like talked most about the possibility of the checks being fallible are like, koko/Butterfree obviously, me, and kyeugh herself, so I don't think I get much out of that. 

Just so I don't forget, I guess it's maybe notable that DM's death flavor involved wood and wagons, and Jack was apparently rich and had a last will. I wonder if the latter will be revealed at EOD or something.


----------



## Keldeo

kyeugh said:


> if my results aren't accurate, i want to say i'm insane.  i'm kind of doubting that i'm paranoid here, because afaict that would probably just leave town with no investigative role?  i don't really buy that tbh, it just makes my role worse than useless and doesn't even provide any ~drama~ about conflicting claims or anything for mawile's viewing pleasure.
> 
> if my results are reliable, well, we just yeet koko and butterfree and that's that i guess?  if not, then i'm probably insane, and we're looking at something like:
> 
> Mist1422 - power duplicator?
> Keldeo
> storm - tracker
> kyeugh - witness
> IndigoEmmy
> kokorico - town via my check
> tbh²
> Butterfree - town via my check
> RedneckPhoenix - silencer, probably town?
> Hydreigon25 - messenger
> factoring in tone reads, i think my reads list (if i'm insane) is:
> 
> 
> Spoiler: reads (basically ordered)
> 
> 
> 
> *never yeet*
> me
> koko
> butterfree
> 
> *prefer not to yeet*
> tbh²
> storm
> rnp
> 
> *maybe yeet*
> mist
> keldeo
> 
> *the yeet zone*
> hydreigon
> emmy
> 
> 
> guess i'll put a vote on *IndigoEmmy* for now, since i don't really see how we're ever going to resolve her without a flip? @IndigoEmmy, come play bitte!


Can you tell me about Storm and Mist being where they are in this world?


----------



## Novae

Keldeo said:


> Mist1422 said:
> 
> 
> 
> I'm thinking if bfree and koko are both scum there would be an attempt to discredit me/kyeugh somehow
> 
> maybe this is it
> 
> 
> 
> I'm a bit confused, do you mean the message of the sign? Or that you think like mafia Butterfree's teammates are bussing to get us to WIFOM ourselves out of it? I think the latter is possible, but also I feel like the people who have like talked most about the possibility of the checks being fallible are like, koko/Butterfree obviously, me, and kyeugh herself, so I don't think I get much out of that.
Click to expand...

This is essentially what I’m saying

what’s the third member doing, why is koko kinda just going along with the bfree vote


----------



## Keldeo

tbh² said:


> okay, soooo, it seems like this is a good time to claim ...
> we are the oracle tbh!
> 
> 
> Spoiler: flavorquote
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Seshas said:
> 
> 
> 
> *YES. Snowboards* is manufacturer of snowboards.[1][2] It was founded in 2009 and is based in Europe.[3][4]
> 
> YES. Snowboards Inc.
> 
> TypePrivateIndustrySporting goodsFounded2009HeadquartersSwitzerlandKey peopleRomain De Marchi, JP Solberg, DCPProductsSnowboard equipment, apparel, accessoriesNumber of employees20Websitehttp://www.yesnowboard.com/
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> and according to king mawile, we're the Incarnation of Wikipedia or whatever. but especially of YES. Snowboards Inc. we can ask a question a night and mawile replies with a wikipedia article because of course he does.
> 
> _*on n0,*_
> 
> 
> 
> how many outgroup mafia-aligned slots are there?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> to which mawile replied with
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Zero page - Wikipedia
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> en.wikipedia.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _*on n1,*_
> 
> 
> 
> how many distinct third-party wincons are there in the game?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> to which mawile replied with
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unary numeral system - Wikipedia
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> en.wikipedia.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _*on n2*_*,*
> 
> 
> 
> how many roles are there in this game that may result in inaccurate cop results, (e.g. framers/godfathers/non-regular sanity cop)?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> to which mawile replied with
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Zero-dimensional space - Wikipedia
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> en.wikipedia.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> -m
Click to expand...

Oh hellll YES.







@Eifie please clap.


----------



## Keldeo

Oh.

Um... I retract my Roblox dab gif.


----------



## tbh²

Keldeo said:


> Oh hellll YES.


hahahaha
y'all seriously have no idea how many "YES." jokes rari and i have made in hydrachat.

-m


----------



## Keldeo

Well that was a rollercoaster ride for like, 20 posts. 

I trust tbh a lot off pushing Seshas day 1 and also reads on two secret things that I can talk about if it becomes a thing - mentioned one of them day 1, iirc. So I trust their claim to start, and also if they were mafia trying to chainyeet town Bfree into koko, they didn't  really need to full on claim to drive in the nails, I think?

I agree with kyeugh that I don't think pedantry is out of the question in a shenanigans game. I could honestly totally see Mawile with like a huge grin on his face making the witness role insane, and then also noticing that that question asked about cops and not witnesses, since they are different.

In other words this tbh. 





kyeugh said:


> the alternative is that i've accurately identified two wolves, which, idk, if that's the case then i think we can afford to make a mistake or two in order to be completely sure. if it's NOT the case and we charge along assuming it is that puts us at a pretty significant disadvantage


I think the move tonight would be for tbh to ask the "does the witness get accurate results about their target" question since that gets us either two townchecks or two mafia checks, as opposed to just one town or mafia check from asking whether there's a town X role, right? I kind of want to set the koko/Butterfree pair aside then and yeet elsewhere in the POE, is that mechanically sound?


----------



## Keldeo

Mist1422 said:


> Keldeo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mist1422 said:
> 
> 
> 
> I'm thinking if bfree and koko are both scum there would be an attempt to discredit me/kyeugh somehow
> 
> maybe this is it
> 
> 
> 
> I'm a bit confused, do you mean the message of the sign? Or that you think like mafia Butterfree's teammates are bussing to get us to WIFOM ourselves out of it? I think the latter is possible, but also I feel like the people who have like talked most about the possibility of the checks being fallible are like, koko/Butterfree obviously, me, and kyeugh herself, so I don't think I get much out of that.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> This is essentially what I’m saying
> 
> what’s the third member doing, why is koko kinda just going along with the bfree vote
Click to expand...

If it's purposeful WIFOM, I'm kind of falling for it ngl. I feel like it's strictly -EV for mafia koko to like, instruct a town tbh^2 on how to incriminate em overnight.


----------



## Keldeo

tbh² said:


> Keldeo said:
> 
> 
> 
> Oh hellll YES.
> 
> 
> 
> hahahaha
> y'all seriously have no idea how many "YES." jokes rari and i have made in hydrachat.
> 
> -m
Click to expand...

I would like to request a tbh^2 Hydra Chat YES. Jokes compilation in postgame tbh


----------



## Keldeo

Keldeo said:


> Mist1422 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Keldeo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mist1422 said:
> 
> 
> 
> I'm thinking if bfree and koko are both scum there would be an attempt to discredit me/kyeugh somehow
> 
> maybe this is it
> 
> 
> 
> I'm a bit confused, do you mean the message of the sign? Or that you think like mafia Butterfree's teammates are bussing to get us to WIFOM ourselves out of it? I think the latter is possible, but also I feel like the people who have like talked most about the possibility of the checks being fallible are like, koko/Butterfree obviously, me, and kyeugh herself, so I don't think I get much out of that.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> This is essentially what I’m saying
> 
> what’s the third member doing, why is koko kinda just going along with the bfree vote
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> If it's purposeful WIFOM, I'm kind of falling for it ngl. I feel like it's strictly -EV for mafia koko to like, instruct a town tbh^2 on how to incriminate em overnight.
Click to expand...

Well, I suppose that I came into reading wanting to find some way to continue to think of everyone I was previously townreading as town, because man that day 1 does not make sense to me in a Seshas/koko/Butterfree(/x) world, particularly now knowing that tbh's question said there isn't an outgroup. 

So if koko and Butterfree are wolves who've read my POV correctly and are encouraging my specific brand of tinfoil by doing that, that's neat on them. But if that is the case and I'm wrong, it looks like everyone except for me is crushing it and we'll bag this anyway, roll credits. If my original not w/w read on that was right, then me looking for that possibility with them maybe helps.


----------



## Keldeo

Oh hey, tbh's answers now probably confirm that the immunities are all BS, right? If there's only one third-party win condition and that was VM's warlock points thing, then the ones mentioning alien and cult conversions definitely don't exist.


----------



## Keldeo

Okay last thing, idr if anyone mentioned this because "car" is too short, too long, or too common to be searched for, but the n1 flavor had Trebek's car being searched, which could be another point to him being a bus driver.

Feel like *IndigoEmmy* probably has most equity to be mafia in either Butterfree world / is going to be pretty much impossible to resolve. Or should we just continue with the Butterfree yeet as originally was gonna happen and then reassess based on her flip? I'm not really sure what's mechanically best here.


----------



## RedneckPhoenix

i could just use my ability on emmy and then she either has to claim or be modkilled


----------



## kyeugh

Keldeo said:


> kyeugh said:
> 
> 
> 
> if my results aren't accurate, i want to say i'm insane.  i'm kind of doubting that i'm paranoid here, because afaict that would probably just leave town with no investigative role?  i don't really buy that tbh, it just makes my role worse than useless and doesn't even provide any ~drama~ about conflicting claims or anything for mawile's viewing pleasure.
> 
> if my results are reliable, well, we just yeet koko and butterfree and that's that i guess?  if not, then i'm probably insane, and we're looking at something like:
> 
> Mist1422 - power duplicator?
> Keldeo
> storm - tracker
> kyeugh - witness
> IndigoEmmy
> kokorico - town via my check
> tbh²
> Butterfree - town via my check
> RedneckPhoenix - silencer, probably town?
> Hydreigon25 - messenger
> factoring in tone reads, i think my reads list (if i'm insane) is:
> 
> 
> Spoiler: reads (basically ordered)
> 
> 
> 
> *never yeet*
> me
> koko
> butterfree
> 
> *prefer not to yeet*
> tbh²
> storm
> rnp
> 
> *maybe yeet*
> mist
> keldeo
> 
> *the yeet zone*
> hydreigon
> emmy
> 
> 
> guess i'll put a vote on *IndigoEmmy* for now, since i don't really see how we're ever going to resolve her without a flip? @IndigoEmmy, come play bitte!
> 
> 
> 
> Can you tell me about Storm and Mist being where they are in this world?
Click to expand...

i think maybe storm could be lower. i just think their claim checks out and i’ve liked their tone.  i liked that they mentioned the redirection although i guess maybe that’s NAI?
i also like mist for her claim, although like i mentioned before i have slight suspicions that there’s a mafia tracker and she’s just trying to pocket me/push along the bfree misyeet.


Keldeo said:


> Well that was a rollercoaster ride for like, 20 posts.
> 
> I trust tbh a lot off pushing Seshas day 1 and also reads on two secret things that I can talk about if it becomes a thing - mentioned one of them day 1, iirc. So I trust their claim to start, and also if they were mafia trying to chainyeet town Bfree into koko, they didn't  really need to full on claim to drive in the nails, I think?
> 
> I agree with kyeugh that I don't think pedantry is out of the question in a shenanigans game. I could honestly totally see Mawile with like a huge grin on his face making the witness role insane, and then also noticing that that question asked about cops and not witnesses, since they are different.
> 
> In other words this tbh.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> kyeugh said:
> 
> 
> 
> the alternative is that i've accurately identified two wolves, which, idk, if that's the case then i think we can afford to make a mistake or two in order to be completely sure. if it's NOT the case and we charge along assuming it is that puts us at a pretty significant disadvantage
> 
> 
> 
> I think the move tonight would be for tbh to ask the "does the witness get accurate results about their target" question since that gets us either two townchecks or two mafia checks, as opposed to just one town or mafia check from asking whether there's a town X role, right? I kind of want to set the koko/Butterfree pair aside then and yeet elsewhere in the POE, is that mechanically sound?
Click to expand...

 i think it’s sound. i don’t think we’re figuring emmy out any other way. on the other hand, the odds that tbh² gets shot or, more probably, blocked tonight are pretty good... maybe if doc heals tbh², and mist duplicates their action? would blocking tbh² extend to mist’s result? but then again, this would all depend on mist telling the truth...


----------



## Keldeo

kyeugh said:


> i think maybe storm could be lower. i just think their claim checks out and i’ve liked their tone. i liked that they mentioned the redirection although i guess maybe that’s NAI?
> i also like mist for her claim, although like i mentioned before i have slight suspicions that there’s a mafia tracker and she’s just trying to pocket me/push along the bfree misyeet.


Alright, thank you. I think I like Mist more than you do whereas I've not felt very strongly about Storm's tone (though I do think they're telling the truth about having track results, given their n1 track of Hydreigon - and they're probably not w/w with Hydreigon for that?) With RNP being towny from the whole DM business on day 1, I like that Mist apparently recharged RNP's shot of that ability, and iirc I liked her EOD1 treatment of Seshas for similar reasons to why I like Butterfree's treatment of it. 

Do you think like in a mafia Mist/town Storm/town Butterfree world, there would be like another mafia tracker in addition to this town tracker who specifically let Mist hatch this ability copying fake claim that would be proven immediately wrong? That seems a little complicated.


----------



## Keldeo

Oh, also there was Storm counterclaiming VM... should probably look at that sequence again, I don't know that they would've needed to, but I don't remember how direct the contradiction was. I think mechanically Storm/RNP also seem not w/w because tracker + sensei + fruit vendor is a weird combination of mafia roles, though I like RNP anyway. 

I nearly forgot that we have his recharged ability in addition to all these other inforoles. I'm a bit worried that even if Emmy got compelled she wouldn't be able to show up and post about it in time, so maybe it would be solid to have tbh^2 check kyeugh's stuff on koko/Bfree (or we could also use RNP's ability to compel one of them? dunno), then kyeugh and RNP can check/compel whoever in the remaining people? I feel pretty good about all three of those claims. I haven't really taken stock of the big picture yet, it's possible I have too many townreads.


----------



## tbh²

Keldeo said:


> Oh hey, tbh's answers now probably confirm that the immunities are all BS, right? If there's only one third-party win condition and that was VM's warlock points thing, then the ones mentioning alien and cult conversions definitely don't exist.


oh yeah i can reveal our immunity now that i know it doesn't matter
we were serial killer immune
(haven't caught up on the rest, i shall ... eventually0

-m


----------



## Mawile

i'll do a vote count when i wake up in the morning*
*like 9-10 hours from now


----------



## storm

okay now I am conscious and painfree so time to uhhh cultivate opinions and thoughts, let me read back a bit


----------



## storm

20 minutes later I am not much further along than before,,,

I am really suspicious of hydreigon still, but I almost feel that they have been deliberately ignoring a lot of direct questions about their role and actions, and making very... blatantly aggressive posts, maybe to encourage being lynched? idk I was pondering whether they were a potentially inexperienced alien trying to be obnoxious due to not knowing the site meta yet? I'm also unfamiliar with the town messenger role they've claimed and couldn't find much when I googled it. my main concern there is if they can insert whatever they choose into the day and night flavours, or if it has to be true...?

but then if they're trying to get lynched idk if that would support being the one who planted the sign about their being town, so. this is not really conclusive either way

I'm inclined to believe tbh... the detail of their questions and answers looks legit (and also like the kind of shenanigans mawile would pull. mawile I love you omg??). additionally "there are no cop results because the only cop-like role we have are witnesses" also is beginning to feel like the kind of trickery expected from this game

I am, however, very eager to hear butterfree defend herself. there's a lot going on here and I really want to try to understand more of it ;;


----------



## IndigoClaudia

kyeugh said:


> if my results aren't accurate, i want to say i'm insane.  i'm kind of doubting that i'm paranoid here, because afaict that would probably just leave town with no investigative role?  i don't really buy that tbh, it just makes my role worse than useless and doesn't even provide any ~drama~ about conflicting claims or anything for mawile's viewing pleasure.
> 
> if my results are reliable, well, we just yeet koko and butterfree and that's that i guess?  if not, then i'm probably insane, and we're looking at something like:
> 
> Mist1422 - power duplicator?
> Keldeo
> storm - tracker
> kyeugh - witness
> IndigoEmmy
> kokorico - town via my check
> tbh²
> Butterfree - town via my check
> RedneckPhoenix - silencer, probably town?
> Hydreigon25 - messenger
> factoring in tone reads, i think my reads list (if i'm insane) is:
> 
> 
> Spoiler: reads (basically ordered)
> 
> 
> 
> *never yeet*
> me
> koko
> butterfree
> 
> *prefer not to yeet*
> tbh²
> storm
> rnp
> 
> *maybe yeet*
> mist
> keldeo
> 
> *the yeet zone*
> hydreigon
> emmy
> 
> 
> guess i'll put a vote on *IndigoEmmy* for now, since i don't really see how we're ever going to resolve her without a flip? @IndigoEmmy, come play bitte!


imma doctor but i've kinda been  absent... lol.


----------



## kyeugh

mfw


----------



## Redstrykephoenix

imagine b- this is the wrong account


----------



## RedneckPhoenix

imagine being doctor twice in a row


----------



## RedneckPhoenix

*emmy*


----------



## tbh²

storm said:


> I am really suspicious of hydreigon still, but I almost feel that they have been deliberately ignoring a lot of direct questions about their role and actions, and making very... blatantly aggressive posts, maybe to encourage being lynched? idk I was pondering whether they were a potentially inexperienced alien trying to be obnoxious due to not knowing the site meta yet?


fwiw, by the n1 question we asked, they're probably not an alien
-m


----------



## IndigoClaudia

i got 

OOPS: All doctors

remember that?


----------



## RedneckPhoenix

no i don't actually i did a search for that and nothing came ul


----------



## RedneckPhoenix

up


----------



## kyeugh

gonna wait a few hours for a counterclaim and then maybe move my vote


----------



## RedneckPhoenix

if you're gonna fakeclaim a quote at least fakeclaim a quote that actually exists


----------



## IndigoClaudia

it does!


----------



## IndigoClaudia

lol ooops



Keldeo said:


> Spoiler


----------



## kyeugh

if emmy is telling the truth then imo one of me/emmy/tbh² will die and another will be blocked—if emmy isn’t the kill she’s probably the block


----------



## IndigoClaudia

yeah it's fine if i'm blocked because i'm busy doing important things lately.

And by important things i mean animal crossing.


----------



## qenya

storm said:


> there's a lot going on here and I really want to try to understand more of it ;;


word



kyeugh said:


> i think it’s sound. i don’t think we’re figuring emmy out any other way. on the other hand, the odds that tbh² gets shot or, more probably, blocked tonight are pretty good... maybe if doc heals tbh², and mist duplicates their action? would blocking tbh² extend to mist’s result? but then again, this would all depend on mist telling the truth...


I want to say this seems sound but I honestly have no conception of what's the best move at this point

someone tell me who to vote for


----------



## qenya

I don't think this should give anything too terribly important away and it should help verify the claim-

@IndigoEmmy who did you heal on each of the nights so far?


----------



## IndigoClaudia

uhh...

i forgot?


----------



## qenya

ಠ_ಠ


----------



## IndigoClaudia

in my defense, i was busy.
Busy playing animal crossing/fire emblem.


----------



## qenya

*IndigoEmmy*


----------



## IndigoClaudia

waaaaaaaaaa


----------



## Novae

emmy are you just a standard doc?


----------



## storm

yeah would you mind sharing if you have any immunities (even if they are outlandish)? I also think most roles have a one-shot ability, from what's been said?


----------



## Mawile

*Vote History:*


Spoiler



Mist1422 voted Butterfree (#1458)
kyeugh voted Butterfree (#1459)
storm voted Butterfree (#1460)
kokorico voted Butterfree (#1465)
Hydreigon25 voted Butterfree (#1466)
tbh^2 voted Butterfree (#1471)
RedneckPhoenix voted Hydreigon25 (#1484)
Keldeo voted Butterfree (#1492)
kyeugh voted IndigoEmmy (#1502)
Keldeo voted IndigoEmmy (#1547)
RedneckPhoenix voted IndigoEmmy (#1560)
kokorico voted IndigoEmmy (#1576)



*Active Votes (+ post numbers):*


Spoiler



Mist1422 voted Butterfree (#1458)
storm voted Butterfree (#1460)
Hydreigon25 voted Butterfree (#1466)
tbh^2 voted Butterfree (#1471)
kyeugh voted IndigoEmmy (#1502)
Keldeo voted IndigoEmmy (#1547)
RedneckPhoenix voted IndigoEmmy (#1560)
kokorico voted IndigoEmmy (#1576)



*Vote Count:*
IndigoEmmy (4): kyeugh (#1502), Keldeo (#1547), RedneckPhoenix (#1560), kokorico (#1576)
Butterfree (4): Mist1422 (#1458), storm (#1460), Hydreigon25 (#1466), tbh^2 (#1471)
(Nonvoters: Despicable Meme, Vipera Magnifica, IndigoEmmy, Trebek, Butterfree, JackPK, Seshas)

*EoD is in like 6 hours apparently. time is fake*


----------



## IndigoClaudia

yeah just a normal doctor


----------



## Novae

IndigoEmmy said:


> yeah just a normal doctor


any other abilities?


----------



## IndigoClaudia

nope.


----------



## RedneckPhoenix

BEEP BEEP BEEP

sorry that's just my bullshit detector going off


----------



## kyeugh




----------



## storm

*IndigoEmmy*

sorry that just seems very unlikely


----------



## IndigoClaudia

when the game ends you will see how true it is. But if you really think i am mafia, i guess i have to go with wisdom of the crowd.

*IndigoEmmy*


----------



## RedneckPhoenix

what is with people voting themselves recently

am i that intimidating


----------



## IndigoClaudia

My apologies, i also have the ability to kill one person a night. whoops.


----------



## Mawile

*Vote History:*


Spoiler



Mist1422 voted Butterfree (#1458)
kyeugh voted Butterfree (#1459)
storm voted Butterfree (#1460)
kokorico voted Butterfree (#1465)
Hydreigon25 voted Butterfree (#1466)
tbh^2 voted Butterfree (#1471)
RedneckPhoenix voted Hydreigon25 (#1484)
Keldeo voted Butterfree (#1492)
kyeugh voted IndigoEmmy (#1502)
Keldeo voted IndigoEmmy (#1547)
RedneckPhoenix voted IndigoEmmy (#1560)
kokorico voted IndigoEmmy (#1576)
storm voted IndigoEmmy (#1586)
IndigoEmmy voted IndigoEmmy (#1587)



*Active Votes (+ post numbers):*


Spoiler



Mist1422 voted Butterfree (#1458)
Hydreigon25 voted Butterfree (#1466)
tbh^2 voted Butterfree (#1471)
kyeugh voted IndigoEmmy (#1502)
Keldeo voted IndigoEmmy (#1547)
RedneckPhoenix voted IndigoEmmy (#1560)
kokorico voted IndigoEmmy (#1576)
storm voted IndigoEmmy (#1586)
IndigoEmmy voted IndigoEmmy (#1587)



*Vote Count:*
IndigoEmmy (6): kyeugh (#1502), Keldeo (#1547), RedneckPhoenix (#1560), kokorico (#1576), storm (#1586), IndigoEmmy (#1587)
Butterfree (3): Mist1422 (#1458), Hydreigon25 (#1466), tbh^2 (#1471)
(Nonvoters: Despicable Meme, Vipera Magnifica, Trebek, Butterfree, JackPK, Seshas)


----------



## RedneckPhoenix

that-
mafia doctor


----------



## IndigoClaudia

No i'm townaligned\

i can only kill once


----------



## Butterfree

Uuuuugh I have been trying to wait until I feel properly up to mafia but I still don't. Whatever, I'm going to try to post anyway.

So I'm a flavorcop. I don't really think this is terribly useful; the flavors here are obviously pretty abstract and don't reeeeally seem to strongly indicate much. N0 I checked RNP (who correctly flavorclaimed D1 anyway). N1 I pretty much randomly checked Keldeo; if you'd like to confirm, I got:



Seshas said:


> treestumping instead of nightkills is a viable solution to the deepwolf-punishing aspect of multiball


N2, as it happens, I checked tbh^2, so can back up that flavor.

That said it doesn't seem to me that it's, like, obvious that tbh^2 is therefore telling the truth? Softing a claim involving your flavor doesn't really prove that it corresponds to town oracle, and there seems to be little reason to actually fakeclaim flavor in the first place when that's the case. Hrmmm. kyeugh being insane is probably the simpler option, though.

For what it's worth, I'm also a one-shot watcher (not used) and am immune to being recruited by the mafia.


----------



## IndigoClaudia

lol typo


----------



## IndigoClaudia

So i can kill one time, am townaligned, am doctor and am immune to poison.


----------



## tbh²

IndigoEmmy said:


> uhh...
> 
> i forgot?


can you uh ... check? or do you mean you forgot to submit actions
-m


----------



## IndigoClaudia

Sounds convincing to me

*Unvote*


----------



## Butterfree

wh

what did I just walk into


----------



## IndigoClaudia

tbh² said:


> IndigoEmmy said:
> 
> 
> 
> uhh...
> 
> i forgot?
> 
> 
> 
> can you uh ... check? or do you mean you forgot to submit actions
> -m
Click to expand...

forgot to submit night actions at all


----------



## Butterfree

*IndigoEmmy*


----------



## IndigoClaudia

darn.


----------



## Butterfree

(but yeah, if anyone who hasn't flavorclaimed would like me to flavorcheck them tonight, I can do that)


----------



## tbh²

IndigoEmmy said:


> darn.


can you post your flavor quote?
-m


----------



## IndigoClaudia

i swear when this game ends i will prove that my roleclaim is 100% real.


----------



## IndigoClaudia

just to clarify i can post flavor? is that allowed?


----------



## Butterfree

You can post your flavor quote, i.e. the out-of-context quote from TV Tropes mafia. You can't post the rest of your role PM.


----------



## tbh²

IndigoEmmy said:


> just to clarify i can post flavor? is that allowed?


yeah, you can post the quote itself
but i just checked and saw it's the 'oops all doctors' thing and i just missed it before, sorry!
-m


----------



## kyeugh

IndigoEmmy said:


> just to clarify i can post flavor? is that allowed?


yep


----------



## qenya

IndigoEmmy said:


> just to clarify i can post flavor? is that allowed?


haven't you already done that

you said you were the "oops, all doctors" picture


----------



## Butterfree

You already posted the "Oops, all doctors" image, didn't you? So unless there was more to the actual flavor quote, you've already flavorclaimed.


----------



## kyeugh

can't help but get weird vibes from butterfree's posting, i don't really remember anything she's had to say except for the gratuitous doubt she's cast on everyone's claims for no clear reason


----------



## tbh²

so ... if we lynch emmy toDay then is solving the koko/bfree thing left up to vig resolution / tbh^2 getting an answer? (and hopefully not dying?)
-m


----------



## Butterfree

kyeugh said:


> can't help but get weird vibes from butterfree's posting, i don't really remember anything she's had to say except for the gratuitous doubt she's cast on everyone's claims for no clear reason


Yeah, I'm sorry, I have not been able to be very present for this game at all thanks to the timing of this immediately following my dental surgery and me being in constant pain and/or doped up on painkillers. All I've really been able to do here is try to follow the thread and make low-effort contributions like "it's possible people are lying."


----------



## kyeugh

tbh² said:


> so ... if we lynch emmy toDay then is solving the koko/bfree thing left up to vig resolution / tbh^2 getting an answer? (and hopefully not dying?)
> -m


 yep, basically.  although i'll say that the odds that we don't get any useful information overNight are not bad imo, since i expect (esp if emmy is yeeted) one of us will get blocked and the other killed


----------



## IndigoClaudia

aww i don't wanna be lynched today... tommorow maybe?

that sounded really suspicious nvm


----------



## kyeugh

Butterfree said:


> kyeugh said:
> 
> 
> 
> can't help but get weird vibes from butterfree's posting, i don't really remember anything she's had to say except for the gratuitous doubt she's cast on everyone's claims for no clear reason
> 
> 
> 
> Yeah, I'm sorry, I have not been able to be very present for this game at all thanks to the timing of this immediately following my dental surgery and me being in constant pain and/or doped up on painkillers. All I've really been able to do here is try to follow the thread and make low-effort contributions like "it's possible people are lying."
Click to expand...

 that is fair!  no worries, hope you recover soon.  just thinking out loud here because of the red check business.


----------



## tbh²

kyeugh said:


> tbh² said:
> 
> 
> 
> so ... if we lynch emmy toDay then is solving the koko/bfree thing left up to vig resolution / tbh^2 getting an answer? (and hopefully not dying?)
> -m
> 
> 
> 
> yep, basically.  although i'll say that the odds that we don't get any useful information overNight are not bad imo, since i expect (esp if emmy is yeeted) one of us will get blocked and the other killed
Click to expand...

urk
is there a reason to not sort between them now then, or am i missing something big from not being 100% caught up
-m


----------



## kyeugh

tbh² said:


> kyeugh said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> tbh² said:
> 
> 
> 
> so ... if we lynch emmy toDay then is solving the koko/bfree thing left up to vig resolution / tbh^2 getting an answer? (and hopefully not dying?)
> -m
> 
> 
> 
> yep, basically.  although i'll say that the odds that we don't get any useful information overNight are not bad imo, since i expect (esp if emmy is yeeted) one of us will get blocked and the other killed
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> urk
> is there a reason to not sort between them now then, or am i missing something big from not being 100% caught up
> -m
Click to expand...

 mm, the main reason was that we didn't know who the doctor was, so i was kind of counting on their cover, but yeah, i'm beginning to think the doctor is either emmy or dead, so that probably won't work.  i guess one of butterfree/koko might be the move now...?


----------



## kyeugh

maybe we should make sub signups more of a thing here...


----------



## RedneckPhoenix

flavor-wise emmy's claim makes no sense- i mean the doctor part maybe but like where would the kill come from. my flavor was super in-depth about how i'm the best friend of an eldritch entity and he lets me use six-dimensional radial magic to make them untrackable and can use the darkest sun's all-aware eye to force a claim. hardly any of which was even close to being mentioned in my quote


----------



## tbh²

(to be clear i think emmy is >_> tier esp with the claim/i had a bit of a weird gutread on her intro post but wanted to let her vibe bc inactive, but now i just think that sorting the bfree/koko tangle might be best considering that i might not even get to return with a 'witness'-question answer. and at least lynching in bfree/koko would sort of answer that)
-m


----------



## tbh²

RedneckPhoenix said:


> my flavor was super in-depth about how i'm the best friend of an eldritch entity and he lets me use six-dimensional radial magic to make them untrackable


hahahahahahaha omfg
-m


----------



## qenya

tbh² said:


> so ... if we lynch emmy toDay then is solving the koko/bfree thing left up to vig resolution / tbh^2 getting an answer? (and hopefully not dying?)
> -m


If I'm understanding the situation correctly, I think that's the idea, yeah. Skylar pointed out that Mist (if town) might be able to copy your action and get the answer even if you die, so I think chances are good that at least _one_ person gets a piece of information that solves the impasse.

---

Here's something else that just occurred to me: If Emmy hasn't been healing anyone all game, and the immunities are all bullshit, and there isn't an alien... then _where the hell did the N0 kill go?_ The only thing I can think of is a town roleblocker, but I feel like they would have claimed by now if it were the case, specifically in order to clear everything up. Unless it was DM or Jack?

(The alternative, I suppose, is that raritini are lying about being an oracle, and are wrong about there not being an alien. But I think I'm more inclined to believe them than Emmy at the moment.)


----------



## tbh²

RedneckPhoenix said:


> flavor-wise emmy's claim makes no sense- i mean the doctor part maybe but like where would the kill come from


anyway if i think really hard i think maybe it's like ... since it's 'oops all doctors' referring to the weird bevy of [pseudo]healing roles that were in tvt, like VM who could /switch/ between healing types, it could have to do with that if true
-m


----------



## tbh²

kokorico said:


> The only thing I can think of is a town roleblocker, but I feel like they would have claimed by now if it were the case, specifically in order to clear everything up.


hmmm. would they have?
-m


----------



## kyeugh

kokorico said:


> The only thing I can think of is a town roleblocker, but I feel like they would have claimed by now if it were the case, specifically in order to clear everything up. Unless it was DM or Jack?


 very heavily suspecting this fwiw

also for the record my one-shot power has no tie in to my flavor whatsoever


----------



## RedneckPhoenix

if i think really hard it seems like emmy is extrapolating based on "it says doctors in text and boats have cannons on them"


----------



## kyeugh

or, well, it does kind of, but it's pretty tenuous


----------



## tbh²

did jack ever claim anything?
ftr ... because it might come up (i've talked about it before), i know hmf's role, but am not sure when to reveal it :v but they weren't rb
-m


----------



## Butterfree

tbh² said:


> RedneckPhoenix said:
> 
> 
> 
> flavor-wise emmy's claim makes no sense- i mean the doctor part maybe but like where would the kill come from
> 
> 
> 
> anyway if i think really hard i think maybe it's like ... since it's 'oops all doctors' referring to the weird bevy of [pseudo]healing roles that were in tvt, like VM who could /switch/ between healing types, it could have to do with that if true
> -m
Click to expand...

There was not a weird bevy of pseudo-healing roles in TVT, guys, there were two town doctors with clashing flavors and one mafia doctor who could choose which flavor to clash with and that was it


----------



## tbh²

Butterfree said:


> one mafia doctor who could choose which flavor to clash with and that was it


... yes. this counts as 'weird bevy' imo, in that VM was technically supposed to use his power to enact a kill via clash
-m


----------



## tbh²

though mostly the point is that i don't really believe emmy's claim either
i just think we get less info out of it and that detangling things seems ~higher return aiui the gamestate
-m


----------



## tbh²

tbh² said:


> aiui the gamestate


hahahaha imagine adding words into your posts and then making the sentence actually make sense afterwards
-m


----------



## Butterfree

tbh² said:


> Butterfree said:
> 
> 
> 
> one mafia doctor who could choose which flavor to clash with and that was it
> 
> 
> 
> ... yes. this counts as 'weird bevy' imo, in that VM was technically supposed to use his power to enact a kill via clash
> -m
Click to expand...

that's not a 'bevy' of anything!!


----------



## kyeugh

i'm not really sure i see a strong reason to disbelieve emmy's claim?  if she flips mafia then of course it will have been an obvious lie but i'm not sure it's beyond the realm of possibility that she actually hasn't been playing, haha.

normally i'd say it'd be worth it to just flip her and find out, but in this particular case, having the doctor around toNight would help massively, because it would throw a wrench in the mafia's ability to disrupt our plan.  misyeeting our doc toDay would suck a lot with the gamestate exactly as it is at this moment... but i guess if she doesn't submit an action tonight it doesn't matter anyway, lol.  and the only alternative yeets that make sense to me atm would sort of defeat the purpose of the plan for the Night anyway, so idkidk.


----------



## storm

hmmmmm I just. don't like the look of emmy neglecting the details we were specifically asking about at first, and it's not clear to me if emmy is planning to catch up or do anything this night either? 

(I also feel bad for going back to butterfree when she's really not feeling well,,,,)


----------



## tbh²

yeah the way i'm seeing it is that sorting bfree/koko/skylar out would happen by a) lynching one of bfree/koko today, b) <overNight intel>, or c) doing it toMorrow. c seems ... meh when emmy is the alternative lynch for toDay, b maybe shouldn't be relied upon, so i come to option a?

like lynching emmy toDay would still be. going with her over a redcheck. which makes me :/ (though i know the fear was that the redcheck could actually be a greencheck if skylar is insane, i guess, but if skylar is really the only alignment-flipping inforole then i sort of think she's probably regular sanity. also having an insane witness makes no sense given that the inspection gets redirected to a target's killer, and it makes even less sense if skylar is indeed the /only/ alignment-investigator i think?)
-m


----------



## tbh²

storm said:


> hmmmmm I just. don't like the look of emmy neglecting the details we were specifically asking about at first, and it's not clear to me if emmy is planning to catch up or do anything this night either?


tbqh i think this particular thing is kind of just up to emmy's circumstances, she also was like that in acnh as town because she was busy irl
-m


----------



## RedneckPhoenix

well yes but now her circumstances are "animal crossing" and "fire emblem"

even when i'm playing games to the point of not noticing it's 4 AM i still post in mafia


----------



## tbh²

i just don't really want to assume too much about people's irl situations too much, tbh.
-m


----------



## tbh²

tbh² said:


> too much [...] too much


jesus fucking christ


----------



## Mawile

tbh² said:


> tbh² said:
> 
> 
> 
> too much [...] too much
> 
> 
> 
> jesus fucking christ
Click to expand...

"too much"*²*


----------



## Novae

this claim is multiple levels of yikes imo

I think her backtrack about the 1-shot ability is the worst part


----------



## qenya

Mist1422 said:


> I think her backtrack about the 1-shot ability is the worst part


I think I must have missed this, which page was it on?


----------



## IndigoClaudia

it's actually true... but i'll let you see once the game ends :/


----------



## qenya

kokorico said:


> Mist1422 said:
> 
> 
> 
> I think her backtrack about the 1-shot ability is the worst part
> 
> 
> 
> I think I must have missed this, which page was it on?
Click to expand...

nvm found it

...hmmmm


----------



## qenya

Hey, raritini, I need to ask you something quickly.


tbh² said:


> tbh² said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Vipera Magnifica said:
> 
> 
> 
> and how would you even know that when hmf hasn't said their role?
> 
> 
> 
> ?????????????????????
> because what we're immune to doesn't fit their description, at all
> i can't really elaborate without claiming but idk how this is hard to accept
> -m
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> holy shit wait
> @Despicable Meme what if i told you i know what happened. can you guess at what went down then?
> 
> -m
Click to expand...

Since DM is dead now, is this exchange something you can clarify without giving anything important away? IIRC, the context is that they claimed to have targeted Hydreigon (and presumably redirected to you), and for their action not to have taken effect as they expected.


----------



## kyeugh

idk maybe i'm just being dumb here but forgetting what one's role pm contains seems about right for someone who's not paying attention to the game at all


----------



## tbh²

kokorico said:


> Since DM is dead now, is this exchange something you can clarify without giving anything important away? IIRC, the context is that they claimed to have targeted Hydreigon (and presumably redirected to you), and for their action not to have taken effect as they expected.


i don't think it is (it would basically require that i claim hmf's role), i'm probably going to ask rari if she thinks we can talk about it or not though when she gets online because i might be overthinking this

-m


----------



## kyeugh

kyeugh said:


> idk maybe i'm just being dumb here but forgetting what one's role pm contains seems about right for someone who's not paying attention to the game at all


 why the thinking reacts


----------



## Mawile

tbh i constantly forget what the role PMs contain despite being the one who wrote them


----------



## Novae

is it weird that I feel like emmy is lolcatting with reactions


----------



## tbh²

Mist1422 said:


> is it weird that I feel like emmy is lolcatting with reactions


no, though i don't think it's out of the ordinary for her
-m


----------



## tbh²

hmm, ok, i reread her claim and no longer think the oneshot bit is as weird specifically
-m


----------



## qenya

tbh² said:


> kokorico said:
> 
> 
> 
> Since DM is dead now, is this exchange something you can clarify without giving anything important away? IIRC, the context is that they claimed to have targeted Hydreigon (and presumably redirected to you), and for their action not to have taken effect as they expected.
> 
> 
> 
> i don't think it is (it would basically require that i claim hmf's role), i'm probably going to ask rari if she thinks we can talk about it or not though when she gets online because i might be overthinking this
Click to expand...

that's what I thought, cool

being as vague as possible while still getting the point across: if I told you I rolecopped DM last Night, and advised you to look at the main roles and oneshots we know so far on the spreadsheet I'm sure you're maintaining, would you understand where I'm coming from with all my posts so far on this page, taken together?


----------



## tbh²

current votecount is 6 for emmy vs 3 for bfree. i cannot believe you are falling onto the same trap as in the game that birthed this one, guys. keldeo is doing exactly what qva did in tvt when we had a redcheck on mf. where has all that “lynch what gleans more mech info!” talk from yesterDay gone? was it all buried with jack? what the fuck will we glean from the alignment of a person who barely posted at all?



RedneckPhoenix said:


> flavor-wise emmy's claim makes no sense- i mean the doctor part maybe but like where would the kill come from.


does the word “healclashvig” ring any bells for ya



storm said:


> (I also feel bad for going back to butterfree when she's really not feeling well,,,,)


i understand where you come from and it’s cute, really, but mafiosi can feel unwell as much as townies



tbh² said:


> i know the fear was that the redcheck could actually be a greencheck if skylar is insane, i guess, but if skylar is really the only alignment-flipping inforole then i sort of think she's probably regular sanity. also having an insane witness makes no sense given that the inspection gets redirected to a target's killer, and it makes even less sense if skylar is indeed the /only/ alignment-investigator i think?


this is especially important. yesterDay when the cop confusion was going on between vm and skylar, the only person whose role was unknown and was not there to counterclaim was emmy. i was afraid that she was the real cop, or the sane counterpart to qva. now we know she is not.

this would make qva the sole alignment checker in the entire game. her flavourquote does not hint insanity in the slightest. i understand that our question was unfortunately not pedantism-proof, but regardless of that i strongly doubt that she is insane.



kokorico said:


> being as vague as possible while still getting the point across: if I told you I rolecopped DM last Night, and advised you to look at the main roles and oneshots we know so far on the spreadsheet I'm sure you're maintaining, would you understand where I'm coming from with all my posts so far on this page, taken together?


if you’re talking about roles and how they fit into the setup we see where you’re going but we don’t find it that damning, really

- rari


----------



## storm

mmmmmmmmm *butterfree *


----------



## RedneckPhoenix

"healclashvig" is a mechanical thing. my role had no mechanical flavor flavor to it so i'm assuming emmy's is not


----------



## kyeugh

tbh² said:


> what the fuck will we glean from the alignment of a person who barely posted at all?


 this is kind of a bad way of looking at it.  we win the game by sorting as many people as possible, and if we have a method of determining someone's alignment other than yeeting them, then that's preferable, and figuring out my sanity will sort koko/butterfree without the need to use a yeet on it.  the emmy wagon was started under the pretense that there was not going to be another way to learn her alignment.


tbh² said:


> her flavourquote does not hint insanity in the slightest.


 suggesting insanity in the role pm defeats the entire purpose.  this is not evidence of anything.


----------



## tbh²

kyeugh said:


> suggesting insanity in the role pm defeats the entire purpose. this is not evidence of anything.


what do you think of the other thing in re: your role that i talked about? do you think that the only alignment-gleaning investigative role in the game is an insane witness?
-m


----------



## tbh²

@IndigoEmmy for the love of arceus please come here and vote for butterfree, even if you don’t care about the game anymore
this is likely to be decisive for a town win if nobody else changes votes
- rari


----------



## Mawile

*Vote History:*


Spoiler



Mist1422 voted Butterfree (#1458)
kyeugh voted Butterfree (#1459)
storm voted Butterfree (#1460)
kokorico voted Butterfree (#1465)
Hydreigon25 voted Butterfree (#1466)
tbh^2 voted Butterfree (#1471)
RedneckPhoenix voted Hydreigon25 (#1484)
Keldeo voted Butterfree (#1492)
kyeugh voted IndigoEmmy (#1502)
Keldeo voted IndigoEmmy (#1547)
RedneckPhoenix voted IndigoEmmy (#1560)
kokorico voted IndigoEmmy (#1576)
storm voted IndigoEmmy (#1586)
IndigoEmmy voted IndigoEmmy (#1587)
IndigoEmmy voted nobody (#1597)
Butterfree voted IndigoEmmy (#1600)
storm voted Butterfree (#1658)



*Active Votes (+ post numbers):*


Spoiler



Mist1422 voted Butterfree (#1458)
Hydreigon25 voted Butterfree (#1466)
tbh^2 voted Butterfree (#1471)
kyeugh voted IndigoEmmy (#1502)
Keldeo voted IndigoEmmy (#1547)
RedneckPhoenix voted IndigoEmmy (#1560)
kokorico voted IndigoEmmy (#1576)
Butterfree voted IndigoEmmy (#1600)
storm voted Butterfree (#1658)



*Vote Count:*
IndigoEmmy (5): kyeugh (#1502), Keldeo (#1547), RedneckPhoenix (#1560), kokorico (#1576), Butterfree (#1600)
Butterfree (4): Mist1422 (#1458), Hydreigon25 (#1466), tbh^2 (#1471), storm (#1658)
(Nonvoters: Despicable Meme, Vipera Magnifica, Trebek, JackPK, Seshas, IndigoEmmy)

*EoD in half an hour or so*


----------



## kyeugh

tbh² said:


> kyeugh said:
> 
> 
> 
> suggesting insanity in the role pm defeats the entire purpose. this is not evidence of anything.
> 
> 
> 
> what do you think of the other thing in re: your role that i talked about? do you think that the only alignment-gleaning investigative role in the game is an insane witness?
> -m
Click to expand...

 could be!  not sure.  i wouldn't jump to assuming that i'm sane just because i seem to be the only cop, though.  i'm not really sure what that assumption is founded in aside from some notion of what makes sense in a setup that's intentionally misleading.

i thought i was voting for *Butterfree* already, whoops.


----------



## tbh²

i just really think insane witness makes little sense tbh, less so than insane cop. i know it's a bastardy game but ...
-m


----------



## tbh²

tbh² said:


> i just really think insane witness makes little sense tbh, less so than insane cop. i know it's a bastardy game but ...
> -m


mostly because it would lead to uncontested redchecks on vigs which just seems. incredibly mean?


----------



## kyeugh

maybe i should just have more faith in my god tier reads  definitely inspected koko on purpose


----------



## RedneckPhoenix

fuk it
*bfree i guess*

don't betray me mewtini. we were great as mafia together, you can't be mafia without me


----------



## kyeugh

@IndigoEmmy, if it's not too much trouble (and even if it is ) please submit a night action tonight on either me or tbh².  please don't announce which one you're going to target.  you can do it as soon as the day ends in twenty minutes if that makes it easier for you to remember.


----------



## qenya

ugggggggh... fine, if this is what it takes to wake y'all up. we're a ways away from lylo anyway.

you _better_ send off that question about the witness sanity, raritini

*Butterfree*


----------



## RedneckPhoenix

i'm gonna use my ability on emmy tonight


----------



## RedneckPhoenix

the hypno one not the sensei one


----------



## Novae

not here and not feeling like playing rn

bye


----------



## Novae

also please do not sad react my post or react at all that'll just make me feel worse


----------



## Mawile

*Vote History:*


Spoiler



Mist1422 voted Butterfree (#1458)
kyeugh voted Butterfree (#1459)
storm voted Butterfree (#1460)
kokorico voted Butterfree (#1465)
Hydreigon25 voted Butterfree (#1466)
tbh^2 voted Butterfree (#1471)
RedneckPhoenix voted Hydreigon25 (#1484)
Keldeo voted Butterfree (#1492)
kyeugh voted IndigoEmmy (#1502)
Keldeo voted IndigoEmmy (#1547)
RedneckPhoenix voted IndigoEmmy (#1560)
kokorico voted IndigoEmmy (#1576)
storm voted IndigoEmmy (#1586)
IndigoEmmy voted IndigoEmmy (#1587)
IndigoEmmy voted nobody (#1597)
Butterfree voted IndigoEmmy (#1600)
storm voted Butterfree (#1658)
kyeugh voted Butterfree (#1663)
RedneckPhoenix voted Butterfree (#1667)
kokorico voted Butterfree (#1669)



*Active Votes (+ post numbers):*


Spoiler



Mist1422 voted Butterfree (#1458)
Hydreigon25 voted Butterfree (#1466)
tbh^2 voted Butterfree (#1471)
Keldeo voted IndigoEmmy (#1547)
Butterfree voted IndigoEmmy (#1600)
storm voted Butterfree (#1658)
kyeugh voted Butterfree (#1663)
RedneckPhoenix voted Butterfree (#1667)
kokorico voted Butterfree (#1669)



*Vote Count:*
Butterfree (7): Mist1422 (#1458), Hydreigon25 (#1466), tbh^2 (#1471), storm (#1658), kyeugh (#1663), RedneckPhoenix (#1667), kokorico (#1669)
IndigoEmmy (2): Keldeo (#1547), Butterfree (#1600)
(Nonvoters: Despicable Meme, Vipera Magnifica, Trebek, JackPK, Seshas, IndigoEmmy)


----------



## tbh²

kokorico said:


> you _better_ send off that question about the witness sanity, raritini


we will!!!!
-m


----------



## RedneckPhoenix

got it, not sad reacting your post


----------



## kyeugh

kinda do be feeling confused about koko doe


----------



## kyeugh

RedneckPhoenix said:


> got it, not sad reacting your post


----------



## Novae

thanks rnp


----------



## RedneckPhoenix

my brain can fit 10 words and i have 4 slots constantly dedicated to "fuck you" and "self hatred"


----------



## RedneckPhoenix

so i cycle out each of the 6 remaining slots and i just didn't have space at all for the rest of- what was i talking about


----------



## qenya

Mist1422 said:


> not here and not feeling like playing rn
> 
> bye


understandable tbh. hope everything is ok.

but if you have any chance over the next 24 hours, please make sure submit your night action to copy raritini! it would bad if they got their answer and it died with them.


----------



## tbh²

just in case we don't make it to d3, reminders/revelations

- pls check keldeo toMorrow
- hmf was vig. our oneshot was bulletproof (a YES. snowboard for protection, lol,) and they hit us when trying to shoot hydreigon (trebek busdrove us and we got popped, that's why we knew what had happened)
- rnp is probably town because of hmf being green
- mist is probably town because of rnp being green
- PoE (everyone we aren't confident about) is like, storm/hydreigon/emmy/bfree/koko/keldeo
- our hypoteam right now is seshas/bfree/koko/keldeo, we think bfree/koko (if red) would've pushed there instead of on emmy


----------



## qenya

tbh² said:


> hmf was vig.


oh thank god we can stop being coy about this

_no other role_ has been duplicated as both main & oneshot

this is why I strongly disbelieve emmy

good luck & goodnight


----------



## tbh²

glhf, koko/bfree i'm sorry if y'all are town
-m


----------



## qenya

kokorico said:


> _no other role_ has been duplicated as both main & oneshot


(disclaimer: "that we know about")


----------



## kyeugh

my one-shot is similar (ish) to another role.


----------



## Mawile

*day is over, votes are final, etc etc

vote count coming shortly*


----------



## tbh²

quick keldeocase as our legacy if we die
- he was diverting town’s attention d1 with culttalk and wincon spec that didn’t really make sense, the former in conjunction with koko
- he has w/w potential with seshas. reread D1
- he tried to steer town away from a bfree/koko lynch today using the same unanimity argument he did in D2 cats with ultracool and pushed for an inactivelynch/claimed doctor

bfree will flip red. please look into keldeo and flip koko tomorrow
- rari


----------



## Mawile

*Vote History:*


Spoiler



Mist1422 voted Butterfree (#1458)
kyeugh voted Butterfree (#1459)
storm voted Butterfree (#1460)
kokorico voted Butterfree (#1465)
Hydreigon25 voted Butterfree (#1466)
tbh^2 voted Butterfree (#1471)
RedneckPhoenix voted Hydreigon25 (#1484)
Keldeo voted Butterfree (#1492)
kyeugh voted IndigoEmmy (#1502)
Keldeo voted IndigoEmmy (#1547)
RedneckPhoenix voted IndigoEmmy (#1560)
kokorico voted IndigoEmmy (#1576)
storm voted IndigoEmmy (#1586)
IndigoEmmy voted IndigoEmmy (#1587)
IndigoEmmy voted nobody (#1597)
Butterfree voted IndigoEmmy (#1600)
storm voted Butterfree (#1658)
kyeugh voted Butterfree (#1663)
RedneckPhoenix voted Butterfree (#1667)
kokorico voted Butterfree (#1669)



*Active Votes (+ post numbers):*


Spoiler



Mist1422 voted Butterfree (#1458)
Hydreigon25 voted Butterfree (#1466)
tbh^2 voted Butterfree (#1471)
Keldeo voted IndigoEmmy (#1547)
Butterfree voted IndigoEmmy (#1600)
storm voted Butterfree (#1658)
kyeugh voted Butterfree (#1663)
RedneckPhoenix voted Butterfree (#1667)
kokorico voted Butterfree (#1669)



*Vote Count:*
Butterfree (7): Mist1422 (#1458), Hydreigon25 (#1466), tbh^2 (#1471), storm (#1658), kyeugh (#1663), RedneckPhoenix (#1667), kokorico (#1669)
IndigoEmmy (2): Keldeo (#1547), Butterfree (#1600)
(Nonvoters: Despicable Meme, Vipera Magnifica, Trebek, JackPK, Seshas, IndigoEmmy)

PM me if there's errors within the next 15 minutes while I proceed to write up Flavor


----------



## Mawile

*End of Day 3*​
The fog from the morning never quite parted.

The townspeople begin to tire of the daily deliberation session, and quickly settle on two options of who to throw into the Hell Pit: Butterfree and IndigoEmmy. The mayor wanders in and out of his office, waiting for someone from the town legal department to verify Jack's will. Both Butterfree and IndigoEmmy try to defend themselves, and for a brief while, it looks like Butterfree is off the hook.

The mayor looks at his phone to determine the time, and eventually the clock strikes 5pm Pacific time. Someone from the legal department finally runs into the square and hands off Jack's will to the mayor. The town's opinion has changed, yet again, and it looks as if Butterfree will be thrown into the hell pit.

The mayor gathers everyone's attention, and begins to read out loud the last will of JackPK, local millionare.


			
				The Last Will of JackPK said:
			
		

> Hi all! So as y'all can see, my 1-shot power was to write a last will.
> 
> I have to send this in before EOD, so I won't get to see who gets yeeted and how they flip. So I'm sorry if any of this ends up irrelevant when it actually gets posted.
> 
> My main role was doctor, and my role PM's flavor had no indication that there was any possibility of another doctor existing, so I have serious doubts about Emmy's claim as a result.
> 
> I am also skeptical of Butterfree's claim in #1593, as she claims to be immune to mafia recruitment, which is MY immunity (which I claimed in #386, and Butterfree didn't bring anything up about it back then). AFAIK we have not yet seen any pairs of people with the same immunity, so this makes me suspicious that Butterfree may be fakeclaiming and simply forgot that I had already claimed this immunity.
> 
> If it helps resolve any confusion over targets, my heals were n0 Seshas (purely bc of their profile posts asking whether they'd ever survive any game past D1  ), n1 tbh2, n2 kyeugh.
> 
> Good luck town! Go get 'em!


The mayor pockets the last will, and the town readies themselves to throw Butterfree into the Hell Pit. She doesn't struggle too much, primarily due to pain and painkillers, and she is easily tossed into the Pit.

One would think that she could just fly out, being a Butterfree, but she accepts her fate. Nobody remembered to grab her house key, though, so the town briefly wonders for a second about how to enter her house.

The townspeople arrive at her house. One of them proceeds to break open one of her windows using a brick they pried up from the ground of the town square. Nearby, someone opens her door, which was unlocked the whole time.

The townspeople cautiously enter her house, only to find nearly everything shredded with a few careful uses of Air Slash. She forgot to shred a couple of things, though, namely several loose tufts of black and white fur, a bunch of loose wing scales in a plastic box, and a handwritten note to the mafia apologizing.

Wait, what?

Being as that's the only readable thing in her house, the townspeople decide that she must have belonged to the mafia. Unfortunately, she doesn't name any names, so the search has to continue, whether or not the fog leaves.

*Butterfree is dead. She was mafia.
Night 3 begins now, and will last 24 hours, until 5pm Pacific on July 29th/midnight UTC on July 30th.*



Spoiler: pings



@Mist1422
@Keldeo
@Despicable Meme
@storm
@kyeugh
@Vipera Magnifica
@IndigoEmmy
@kokorico
@Trebek
@tbh²
@Butterfree
@JackPK
@RedneckPhoenix
@Seshas
@Hydreigon25


----------



## Hydreigon25

Good Night everybody, hope to see everyone Day 4


----------



## Mawile

*DAY 4*​
If you looked outside your window this morning, you would almost think it was night. The clouds over the town only increased, blocking out a majority of the light from the sun. It's cold and windy, and the remaining townspeople have to bundle up before making their way outside. A small bit of steam rises out of the Hell Pit, one of the only sources of warmth left in the town square.

The mayor shivers in the town square, and you can see his breath as he prepares to do the head count. One, two, three, four, five, six, seven, eight. Eight people remain out of the original fifteen, all gathered in the square. The graves aren't very far away, and the townspeople dread to think that they'll have to bury more of their own.

The mayor almost sets down his megaphone, before someone hesitantly yells out, "weren't there nine of us last night?" He pauses for a second, and the town collectively holds their breath for a second. They don't want to believe it.

The townspeople quickly figure out that the missing person is another espurr, who typically dressed up in the clothes of a video game character. She's usually up early and ready to talk to everyone, so where is she now? 

Everyone wearily goes to tbh^2's house, hoping for the best but expecting the worst. Her door is ajar, as if someone had calmly walked in, and the townspeople are shocked at what they find inside.

The espurr was slumped over in her chair at her laptop, surrounded by bits of bloody confetti. A shot-put ball with confetti stuck to it was on the floor next to her, coated in blood. Nobody wants to touch the crime scene, and it's certainly a different way of murder than what everyone is accustomed to. 

Someone gently sifts through the stack of papers at her desk, which entirely consists of printed-out webpages marked up with red pens. Her bookshelf contains nothing but encyclopedias, filled with annotations and dog-eared pages, but nothing incriminating is found.

*Day 4 has begun. tbh^2 has died. They were not mafia. 
Day 4 will end in 48 hours, at 5pm Pacific on July 31st and midnight UTC on August 1st.*



Spoiler: pings



@Mist1422
@Keldeo
@Despicable Meme
@storm
@kyeugh
@Vipera Magnifica
@IndigoEmmy
@kokorico
@Trebek
@tbh²
@Butterfree
@JackPK
@RedneckPhoenix
@Seshas
@Hydreigon25


----------



## kyeugh

fuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuck

i forgot to submit a night action.  lol lol lol


----------



## kyeugh

*kokorico*


----------



## Redstrykephoenix

bad n- fuck


----------



## RedneckPhoenix

bad news guys


----------



## RedneckPhoenix

so i lied i didnt use my ability on emmy


----------



## Hydreigon25

does anyone think IndigoEmmy could be town ?


----------



## kyeugh

i am going to go play minecraft and try to forget what a brainless buffoon i am.  please vote koko, it doesn't really make sense not to.


----------



## RedneckPhoenix

i think you have something much more important to say mr. hydreigon


----------



## Hydreigon25

RedneckPhoenix said:


> so i lied i didnt use my ability on emmy


if not emmy, did you select someone that is still alive ?


----------



## RedneckPhoenix

fuck i mean mx. hydreigon sorry


----------



## RedneckPhoenix

Hydreigon25 said:


> RedneckPhoenix said:
> 
> 
> 
> so i lied i didnt use my ability on emmy
> 
> 
> 
> if not emmy, did you select someone that is still alive ?
Click to expand...

go read your dm's damnit


----------



## Hydreigon25

RNP could be up to something, be back in a hour


----------



## RedneckPhoenix

i- hydre, i used my ability on you. don't act all funny about it, i got confirmation that my action went through


----------



## RedneckPhoenix

Hydreigon25 said:


> RNP could be up to something, be back in a hour


"up to something" fucking lol


----------



## storm

ohhh no

this. doesn't look good

I'm not really here yet but my initial report: I tracked *keldeo*, who targeted tbh


----------



## Novae

I got

Egg

That's it my night result was just the wikipedia page for egg


----------



## kyeugh

nice! keldeo probably would’ve been my target if i wasn’t an utter fool, so the fact that you got something makes me feel a little better at least. l

still kinda vibing on koko for now.


----------



## Novae

Mist1422 said:


> I got
> 
> Egg
> 
> That's it my night result was just the wikipedia page for egg


I think this is the only time I've ever seen the confused reaction used well


----------



## RedneckPhoenix

egg look like number 0


----------



## Hydreigon25

*RedneckPhoenix*


----------



## kyeugh

tf


----------



## Hydreigon25

imagine having suspicious activity since D2


----------



## RedneckPhoenix

hydre responsible adults don't lash out when they're angry


----------



## RedneckPhoenix

as an irresponsible child i'm allowed to do that but you aren't


----------



## RedneckPhoenix

and next year when i'm an irresponsible adult i'll only be able to do it halfway


----------



## RedneckPhoenix

you're also not using the joke right because it usually applies to something someone else does that you don't but in case you Have Not Noticed hydre's been spouting so much bullshit i don't have to buy fertilizer this year


----------



## Novae

we have two literal guilties in the thread.


----------



## Novae

Mawile said:


> *Vote Count:*
> IndigoEmmy (4): kyeugh (#1502), Keldeo (#1547), RedneckPhoenix (#1560), kokorico (#1576)
> Butterfree (4): Mist1422 (#1458), storm (#1460), Hydreigon25 (#1466), tbh^2 (#1471)





Mawile said:


> *Vote Count:*
> IndigoEmmy (6): kyeugh (#1502), Keldeo (#1547), RedneckPhoenix (#1560), kokorico (#1576), storm (#1586), IndigoEmmy (#1587)
> Butterfree (3): Mist1422 (#1458), Hydreigon25 (#1466), tbh^2 (#1471)





Mawile said:


> *Vote Count:*
> IndigoEmmy (5): kyeugh (#1502), Keldeo (#1547), RedneckPhoenix (#1560), kokorico (#1576), Butterfree (#1600)
> Butterfree (4): Mist1422 (#1458), Hydreigon25 (#1466), tbh^2 (#1471), storm (#1658)





Mawile said:


> *Vote Count:*
> Butterfree (7): Mist1422 (#1458), Hydreigon25 (#1466), tbh^2 (#1471), storm (#1658), kyeugh (#1663), RedneckPhoenix (#1667), kokorico (#1669)
> IndigoEmmy (2): Keldeo (#1547), Butterfree (#1600)


someone smart can go over these for conclusions


----------



## RedneckPhoenix

i'm still thinking there's an outgroup somewhere and i thiiiiiiiiiiiink that outgroup might be hydre? they're acting like a sorta-new scum who has no coach


----------



## RedneckPhoenix

and refusing to just buckle down and truthclaim their alignment


----------



## Novae

RedneckPhoenix said:


> i'm still thinking there's an outgroup somewhere and i thiiiiiiiiiiiink that outgroup might be hydre? they're acting like a sorta-new scum who has no coach


tbh^2 confirmed no outgroup


----------



## RedneckPhoenix

oh. huh.

why the fuck is hydre actin so goddamn weird then


----------



## Novae

*kokorico*

has the worst voting analysis and I wanna see keldeo’s response to the redcheck first


----------



## RedneckPhoenix

mawile hydre is dming me about the game


----------



## Mawile

RedneckPhoenix said:


> mawile hydre is dming me about the game


>:( they should not do that


----------



## Mawile

*@Hydreigon25 
No out of thread communication is allowed.*


----------



## kyeugh

Mawile said:


> *@Hydreigon25
> No out of thread communication is allowed.*


wtf mawile voted


----------



## RedneckPhoenix

don't you fucking angry react me

i might push away the people i care about but i'm not a cheater


----------



## Mawile

*unvote*


----------



## RedneckPhoenix

Mawile said:


> Also, just to clarify: *do not do any out of thread communication unless I have set up a PM thread for you to do so.*


read things in bold next time hydre


----------



## Hydreigon25

F***'**g H***  

confirmed/possible Mafia

Seshas - Confirmed 
Butterfree - Confirmed
IndigoEmmy - Possible 
RNP - Possible


----------



## RedneckPhoenix

just copy/paste your message and stop almost-cursing


----------



## RedneckPhoenix

either say fuck or don't say fuck it's really thst simple


----------



## storm

hydreigon are you not going to acknowledge that I tracked keldeo with very suspicious timing? I think that would warrant being on the list more than rnp

@Keldeo there is a lot going on but do you mind explaining yourself


----------



## Novae

what was keldeo's claim? did he have one?


----------



## Mawile

*Intermission*​
The clouds hang heavy over the town as they argue in the town square. The mayor oversees all this discussion, but one person pulls another out of the way to try and talk about the game in private.

Despite the message just being two sentences long, Hydreigon was well aware of the rules set in the sign-up: no out of thread communication unless I give you the right to do so. They were not given the right to do so, and especially not the right to discuss something sent by the GM to them exclusively.

The mayor glares at the town's resident hydreigon, and the mayor raises their hand and points a finger at them. They disintegrate into dust, plain and simple. This is a warning to all remaining players: _do not break the rules._

*Hydreigon25 has been modkilled. They were not mafia.*

Please resume discussion at your leisure.


----------



## Mawile

(For reference, I was forwarded the message that Hydreigon sent, and made my judgement based on that.)


----------



## kyeugh

oh,


----------



## Novae

welp


----------



## Hydreigon25

Code:
	

[b]The Great Crawling Shadow of the Eternal and Everlasting Dominion of Blood has cast a spell on me, and I am required to proclaim that my true alignment is that of the [COLOR=rgb(97, 189, 109)]Town[/COLOR].[/b]

even though this is pointless now


----------



## Novae

you are dead

stop posting


----------



## Mawile

Hydreigon25 said:


> Code:
> 
> 
> [b]The Great Crawling Shadow of the Eternal and Everlasting Dominion of Blood has cast a spell on me, and I am required to proclaim that my true alignment is that of the [COLOR=rgb(97, 189, 109)]Town[/COLOR].[/b]
> 
> even though this is pointless now


You are dead.


----------



## kyeugh

bruh oh my god


----------



## RedneckPhoenix

why the fuck were they being so goddamn cagey abt it then


----------



## storm

wtf,,,,


----------



## Novae

anyway

so how bout those red checks right guys


----------



## RedneckPhoenix

*koko*


----------



## RedneckPhoenix

well, that loose end is tied up


----------



## RedneckPhoenix

it would appear hydre is Fucking Pissed at me now


----------



## RedneckPhoenix

wait was it koko who had a redcheck or keldeo. or both? koko. keldeo. keith. lotta k names


----------



## kyeugh

i have a redcheck on koko and storm saw keldeo visit tbh² last night, who ended up dying


----------



## RedneckPhoenix

arguments could be made for voting either but i already voted for koko


----------



## qenya

http://imgur.com/wGfONMC


----------



## qenya

Hydreigon25 said:


> Code:
> 
> 
> [b]The Great Crawling Shadow of the Eternal and Everlasting Dominion of Blood has cast a spell on me, and I am required to proclaim that my true alignment is that of the [COLOR=rgb(97, 189, 109)]Town[/COLOR].[/b]
> 
> even though this is pointless now


i know this meme has been kind of done to death already and i have no desire to cause further ill feeling, but how on earth did you manage to get _the markup itself_ to be an unreadable colour


----------



## qenya

Mist1422 said:


> I got
> 
> Egg
> 
> That's it my night result was just the wikipedia page for egg


that- what


----------



## qenya

kokorico said:


> Mist1422 said:
> 
> 
> 
> I got
> 
> Egg
> 
> That's it my night result was just the wikipedia page for egg
> 
> 
> 
> that- what
Click to expand...

OH MY GOD

I FUCKING CALLED IT

if the question raritini asked was something like "is there anything that could cause the witness not to receive an accurate result for their target"...

IT'S ME

I AM THE EGG


----------



## qenya

honestly that's so hilarious i'm not even pissed that y'all are voting for me. we're like a mile from YOLO, you guys've got this

thank you so much mawile, this made my day


----------



## qenya

leaving my full set of results here in the hope that they become useful

well, the first two aren't in the slightest and you already know the third, but the fourth's a doozy

N0 - Seshas, Fruit Vendor
N1 - kyeugh, Witness
N2 - Despicable Meme, Vigilante
N3 - IndigoEmmy, Jailkeeper


----------



## qenya

my "immunity", fwiw, is to "having my win condition altered", which was the most ominous fucking thing when I opened my role PM

my oneshot is something called "Attention Seeker", which is an absurdly complicated nonsense role that lets me _copy_ actions used on me, and also redirect them to someone else. so for example, if I'd used it on Seshas N0 instead of my rolecop, kyeugh would have got results both on me and on Seshas. obviously in that contrived example it would have turned out well, but in general I don't really see the application, which is why I haven't used it.

and this is my quote:


Keldeo said:


> TV Tropes Mafia Revival, Day 11. Every post ends with "it's not you, it's me." The mafia and Butterfree are maintaining separate spreadsheets to track each swap. No one knows who has the body snatcher role, or even if it's still alive. It's not you, it's me - I hope we can still be friends.


----------



## qenya

kokorico said:


> N3 - IndigoEmmy, Jailkeeper


tbqh I'm unclear why she didn't just claim jailkeeper

like 60% of the reason anyone was suspicious of her was that she counterclaimed a bunch of people

jailkeeper is at least NAI. maybe she didn't realise that?


----------



## Novae

kokorico said:


> kokorico said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mist1422 said:
> 
> 
> 
> I got
> 
> Egg
> 
> That's it my night result was just the wikipedia page for egg
> 
> 
> 
> that- what
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> OH MY GOD
> 
> I FUCKING CALLED IT
> 
> if the question raritini asked was something like "is there anything that could cause the witness not to receive an accurate result for their target"...
> 
> IT'S ME
> 
> I AM THE EGG
Click to expand...

Specifically, it was "egg as food"

So I'm not sure the implications of that but if it did mean you I'm worried about something that's not this game--


----------



## storm

I am very confused about the egg answer, and how it could??? mean koko??

but I AM feeling good about the lineup that we're developing


----------



## qenya

storm said:


> I am very confused about the egg answer, and how it could??? mean koko??


egg -> chicken

that's where my mind went anyway


----------



## storm

kokorico said:


> storm said:
> 
> 
> 
> I am very confused about the egg answer, and how it could??? mean koko??
> 
> 
> 
> egg -> chicken
> 
> that's where my mind went anyway
Click to expand...

oh. yeah that's rather simple!!! hfjsjsjsj I am not very awake today


----------



## Keldeo

Urgh I'm really sorry for not being able to be here, I can't read up just at the moment either but I'll be back tonight. 

Yeet *koko*, yeet Emmy, pop bottles? fwiw the flavor quote that Butterfree said she got for me yesterday is indeed my quote, so if that is indeed the team, would assume that things shifted back to Butterfree cause Emmy has a stronger than flavorcop role that they wanted to get off tonight. If it's not Emmy I'm ~leaning toward it being Hydreigon, having a hard time seeing a world with anyone else. 

Also I can receive a "limited" message from tbh^2 toNight, what should I ask / what do people want to know?


----------



## Redstrykephoenix

funny words from the one whomst killed tbh


----------



## kyeugh

Keldeo said:


> If it's not Emmy I'm ~leaning toward it being Hydreigon


 hydreigon got modkilled, they were town.


----------



## RedneckPhoenix

murderer keldeo


----------



## kyeugh

hydreigon, you need to stop posting.  you're dead.


----------



## Mawile

Hydreigon25 said:


> RedneckPhoenix said:
> 
> 
> 
> i think you have something much more important to say mr. hydreigon
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RedneckPhoenix said:
> 
> 
> 
> fuck i mean mx. hydreigon sorry
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RedneckPhoenix said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hydreigon25 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RedneckPhoenix said:
> 
> 
> 
> so i lied i didnt use my ability on emmy
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> if not emmy, did you select someone that is still alive ?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> go read your dm's damnit
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RedneckPhoenix said:
> 
> 
> 
> i- hydre, i used my ability on you. don't act all funny about it, i got confirmation that my action went through
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RedneckPhoenix said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hydreigon25 said:
> 
> 
> 
> RNP could be up to something, be back in a hour
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> "up to something" fucking lol
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RedneckPhoenix said:
> 
> 
> 
> hydre responsible adults don't lash out when they're angry
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RedneckPhoenix said:
> 
> 
> 
> as an irresponsible child i'm allowed to do that but you aren't
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RedneckPhoenix said:
> 
> 
> 
> and next year when i'm an irresponsible adult i'll only be able to do it halfway
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RedneckPhoenix said:
> 
> 
> 
> and refusing to just buckle down and truthclaim their alignment
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mawile said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RedneckPhoenix said:
> 
> 
> 
> mawile hydre is dming me about the game
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> >:( they should not do that
> 
> Click to expand...
Click to expand...

Hey, please stop posting.


----------



## RedneckPhoenix

mawile those were from before they were modkilled


----------



## Mawile

RedneckPhoenix said:


> mawile those were from before they were modkilled


no hydre posted those in the thread like 10 minutes ago and then deleted their post


----------



## Mawile

big block of quotes


----------



## RedneckPhoenix

huh i didnt think you could delete posts in this subforum


----------



## storm

so about that mafia, huh


----------



## RedneckPhoenix

i just can't comprehend why hydre wouldn't want to copy/paste a message that says "i am town"


----------



## RedneckPhoenix

and then come at me for it?


----------



## RedneckPhoenix

did they think town meant mafia? did they think i was fucking with them?


----------



## storm

yeah I can't say I understand the reasoning behind... any of their actions today


----------



## storm

anyways uhhhh end of day is today, I think? time isn't real but I am pretty sure about that (the 8 pm est has unironically been a really useful point of time to look forward to

@Keldeo I saw you target tbh, care to explain that?? also uhh what are the votes at right now, all the recent nonsense has made things hard to follow


----------



## Mawile

*Vote History:*


Spoiler



kyeugh voted kokorico (#1695)
storm voted Keldeo (#1708)
Mist1422 voted kokorico (#1726)
RedneckPhoenix voted kokorico (#1750)
Keldeo voted kokorico (#1768)



*Active Votes (+ post numbers):*


Spoiler



kyeugh voted kokorico (#1695)
storm voted Keldeo (#1708)
Mist1422 voted kokorico (#1726)
RedneckPhoenix voted kokorico (#1750)
Keldeo voted kokorico (#1768)



*Vote Count:*
kokorico (4): kyeugh (#1695), Mist1422 (#1726), RedneckPhoenix (#1750), Keldeo (#1768)
Keldeo (1): storm (#1708)
(Nonvoters: Despicable Meme, Vipera Magnifica, IndigoEmmy, kokorico, Trebek, tbh^2, Butterfree, JackPK, Seshas, Hydreigon25)

*EoD in like. 7 hours*


----------



## Novae

imagine posting :wowee:


----------



## qenya

Mist1422 said:


> imagine posting :wowee:


couldn't be me


----------



## Novae

kokorico said:


> Mist1422 said:
> 
> 
> 
> imagine posting :wowee:
> 
> 
> 
> couldn't be me
Click to expand...

don't you have a boomroom endgame to write


----------



## storm

rip


----------



## Keldeo

Sorry, my sense of urgency is like nonexistent right now because even if I get yeeted tomorrow I can still contribute or something in f3, so shrug haha.

I'm a treestump (I lose my vote and ability but can still talk after I die), my one-shot power is a limited medium that I used on tbh last night - basically I go to treestump school, where I learn accounting, botany, and what in the world the "deepwolf-punishing aspect of multiball" is, and I can tutor someone in being able to speak from the dead too. Mechanically, I can target someone alive and once they die, they can send a message to me in the following night phase, but it's limited somehow. Knowing Mawile, I don't know what this means but I assume it will be a time. 



Keldeo said:


> (cf. ~treestump-punishing aspect of multiball~)


----------



## Keldeo

I'm not _that_ mechanically incompetent and I like... just ran a game where mafia got buried by a tracker result, if I were mafia with koko there's no way I would carry the kill last night instead of em. You can track me again tonight, storm, and I won't be going anywhere. 

Any mafia who isn't Emmy today wins after two misyeets, so the agenda for them would be to widen the POE into probably including me as the easiest next misyeet and that is like... how basically everyone has been treating the tracker result, so meh I guess.


----------



## Novae

Keldeo said:


> I'm not _that_ mechanically incompetent and I like... just ran a game where mafia got buried by a tracker result, if I were mafia with koko there's no way I would carry the kill last night instead of em. You can track me again tonight, storm, and I won't be going anywhere.


That's

A fair point, actually


----------



## Mawile

*hihi day is over, vote count is here:

Vote History:*


Spoiler



kyeugh voted kokorico (#1695)
storm voted Keldeo (#1708)
Mist1422 voted kokorico (#1726)
RedneckPhoenix voted kokorico (#1750)
Keldeo voted kokorico (#1768)



*Active Votes (+ post numbers):*


Spoiler



kyeugh voted kokorico (#1695)
storm voted Keldeo (#1708)
Mist1422 voted kokorico (#1726)
RedneckPhoenix voted kokorico (#1750)
Keldeo voted kokorico (#1768)



*Vote Count:*
kokorico (4): kyeugh (#1695), Mist1422 (#1726), RedneckPhoenix (#1750), Keldeo (#1768)
Keldeo (1): storm (#1708)
(Nonvoters: Despicable Meme, Vipera Magnifica, IndigoEmmy, kokorico, Trebek, tbh^2, Butterfree, JackPK, Seshas, Hydreigon25)

gimme like 15 minutes if you have things to correct and i will write Flavor


----------



## Keldeo

It would be nice to not get yeeted but I don't really think it matters, I should go over again the mechanical stuff that I'm clearing other people for but it's _probably_ just koko/Emmy and Emmy's always dying before endgame here, so.

Boom bye scum etc.


----------



## Mawile

*End of Day 4*​
The town's discussion starts out strongly, but ends up tapering out over the course of the day.

The mayor is distracted playing modded Terraria on his computer next to the Hell Pit. The remaining villagers sort of fidget around a bit, not really talking, and not really putting in any more votes. They reluctantly hoist up the redchecked resident chicken, kokorico, and politely request eir house key, which e provides.

They toss the chicken into the Hell Pit while the mayor plays his game, and leave him to play. The townspeople shuffle over to kokorico's house, which is (of course) a large chicken coop, and unlock the front door.

Inside eir chicken coop is a desk housing a single laptop, frozen on eir browser screen, and Task Manager won't even open on it. Someone tries to reboot it, and the computer won't even turn off. Another person cautiously rifles through eir freezer, finding nothing but ice cream.

Most of the containers of ice cream are half-eaten, with spoons stuck in them. Weird, but okay.

Two people are about to pull the battery out of the laptop, when someone helpfully notices the tabs open on kokorico's screen. One of them says nothing more than "Mafia Chat [PRIVATE DO NOT READ]", which is generally agreed upon to be good evidence. It's unfortunate that the computer is frozen to the point where nobody can navigate over to that tab and click on it.

Someone pulls out the battery, and the laptop somehow doesn't turn off. It's not even plugged in, how does that work?

*kokorico is dead. E was mafia.
Night 4 begins now, and will last 24 hours, until 5pm Pacific on August 1st/midnight UTC on August 2nd.*



Spoiler: pings



@Mist1422
@Keldeo
@Despicable Meme
@storm
@kyeugh
@Vipera Magnifica
@IndigoEmmy
@kokorico
@Trebek
@tbh²
@Butterfree
@JackPK
@RedneckPhoenix
@Seshas
@Hydreigon25


----------



## Mawile

*DAY 5*​
The morning is cold and the townspeople are bitter. Fog continues to roll in from the edges of the town, and it doesn't seem to stop. A cold wind rustles the leaves of the trees surrounding the square.

The mayor is chilled to his bones, trying to make the makeshift graveyard look decent. At this point, he's had to dig nine graves (some of which are filled with their belongings instead), and make nine signs to hammer in the ground above their final resting places. He doesn't want the townspeople to have to worry about doing it. He finishes nailing a photograph of kokorico to eir memorial sign, and carefully lays down a small bundle of flowers.

Nine graves, nine signs, nine sets of flowers, all in the span of less than a week. It's all too many. The fog seems to gather the most heavily around the graves, somehow.

He heads over to the Hell Pit and begins to warm his hands. Steam, light, and warmth continue to rise out of the Hell Pit, but he can't find any solace in its warmth. The people of his own town have used it to kill a number of their own, some justly and some unjustly. The unjustly ones always hurt the most.

The townspeople wake up on their own schedules, not having much sun to judge the time of day by. They all bundle up in thick coats and shuffle into the town square, one by one, to figure out the results of last night. Nobody says a word to one another. Nobody likes the morning head count.

The mayor pulls his hands away from the warmth of the Hell Pit to grab his megaphone. Out loud, he calls peoples' names and points to people, one by one.

Mistyx, Keldeo, storm, IndigoEmmy, and RedneckPhoenix. Five people remaining. Five out of fifteen.

The mayor closes his eyes for a brief second, and exhales slowly. He calls for kyeugh, in hopes that she's just now walking over, or that maybe he just can't see her in the fog. She never answers.

He leads the routine march over to the house of the dead, and everyone follows suit, huddling together for warmth. He gently pushes open her door.

She's found dead in her kitchen, still in her pajamas, and clutching a small book, now spattered with blood. She was beaten to death with a now bloodstained club, gently placed down next to her. Someone gently prys the book out of her hands, and the cover reads "Dream Journal". Scraps of paper fall out from inside it, but they're all nonsensical dreams and records of what time she woke up each day. Inside the journal is the same.

Nothing incriminating is found in her home, and the townspeople leave her be. The mayor silently makes plans to dig her grave later.

*Day 5 has begun. kyeugh has died. She was not mafia.
Day 5 will end in 48 hours, at 5pm Pacific on August 3rd and midnight UTC on August 4th.*



Spoiler: pings



@Mistyx
@Keldeo
@Despicable Meme
@storm
@kyeugh
@Vipera Magnifica
@IndigoEmmy
@kokorico
@Trebek
@tbh²
@Butterfree
@JackPK
@RedneckPhoenix
@Seshas
@Hydreigon25


----------



## storm

oh no


----------



## RedneckPhoenix

hmmmmm. *keldeo*


----------



## storm

yeah I think that's where I'm at

*keldeo*


----------



## RedneckPhoenix

mafia i hope you didn't get rid of kyeugh expecting me to stop caring about the game because honestly i'm taking it as my fucking quest to win this game for the town


----------



## Novae

emmy is town via kyeugh action


----------



## Novae

*Keldeoooooo*

sorry bud


----------



## Novae

Emmy is confirmed not to be mafia

Can both of you two claim all of your actions this game?


----------



## Novae

n0 - noaction
n1 - recharge RNP's 1-shot ability
n2 - copy kyeugh onto butterfree - mafia result
n3 - copy tbh^2 onto myself - egg as food
n4 - copy kyeugh onto emmy - not mafia result


----------



## RedneckPhoenix

i never used my main action

i used my one-shot a total of three times, once on DM, once on Jack, once on Hydre


----------



## Novae

RedneckPhoenix said:


> i never used my main action
> 
> i used my one-shot a total of three times, once on DM, once on Jack, once on Hydre


Where did you get the third charge for it?


----------



## Novae

Also, what is your main action?


----------



## RedneckPhoenix

jack died and the charge wasn't used or i was blocked


----------



## RedneckPhoenix

sensei, i make someone unable to be tracked at night.


----------



## Novae

alright

if the game doesn't end after today I need @IndigoEmmy to target me tonight and we can force one of the two "PoE" players to die so should be auto?


----------



## storm

right okay
night 0 - tracked despicable meme, no results
night 1 - tracked hydreigon25, reflected to tbh but no results
night 2 - tracked keldeo, no results
night 3 - tracked keldeo, targeted tbh
night 4 - tracked kyeugh, targeted indigoemmy

my immunity was apparently to neighbourizers, which is definitely fake by now lmao, and I have a day phase one-shot I haven't used


----------



## Novae

no results as in no visits or you got roleblocked?


----------



## storm

sorry, no visits!


----------



## storm

I would not be that unlucky to get roleblocked twice and deflected once, I hope ;;


----------



## Novae

hmm that actually brings something up

I received a weird anonymous message n0 that still no one has claimed

was it just hydre's main and the public announcement was their 1-shot?


----------



## Novae

So, nothing's gonna happen, right

@IndigoEmmy @Keldeo 
I would like the two of you to fullclaim with all targets please


----------



## Keldeo

Dammit, I'm sorry, I've been pretty preoccupied and I thought day ended on Tuesday. 

I got this last night, thanks Wikipedia:



Spoiler






> Night - Wikipedia
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----------



## Keldeo

Mistyx said:


> @IndigoEmmy @Keldeo
> I would like the two of you to fullclaim with all targets please


I am 





Seshas said:


> treestumping instead of nightkills is a viable solution to the deepwolf-punishing aspect of multiball


and my role is


Keldeo said:


> I'm a treestump (I lose my vote and ability but can still talk after I die), my one-shot power is a limited medium that I used on tbh last night - basically I go to treestump school, where I learn accounting, botany, and what in the world the "deepwolf-punishing aspect of multiball" is, and I can tutor someone in being able to speak from the dead too. Mechanically, I can target someone alive and once they die, they can send a message to me in the following night phase, but it's limited somehow. Knowing Mawile, I don't know what this means but I assume it will be a time.


I haven't taken any action except the night before last when I mediumized tbh^2.


----------



## Keldeo

Ahhh I didn't want to do work this phase. 

If Emmy is actually town this may be headed badly because there's a chance she'll not show up to vote in final 3, and if she's a godfather or something she probably wins anyway because imagine voting a green check in LYLO (I think it is now mechanically more correct, i.e. wins in more situations, to not vote her, so don't do it tomorrow.) I know tbh had the question about roles interfering with cop results but I still think Mawile would have been pedantic about it.

Mist, just checking, your result had Emmy's name in it, right? There's no way it could have been redirected or anything?


----------



## Keldeo

Okay, if Emmy _is_ godfather, the mafia's win condition since like, two days ago? would basically have been to get her checked in the night by kyeugh and then have her endgame. Like, thinking that through, a team of koko/Butterfree/godfather Emmy probably couldn't have won with koko/Butterfree endgaming, and it'd be a lose condition for them if their misyeets (Hydrei, me?) get checked but not Emmy cause then she probably gets POE yeeted. 

I read Emmy's claim as a panic button type move (which I guess could apply as either alignment then) and koko's claim before getting yeeted that no wait, Emmy is actually just a jailer guys, as like covering for a partner, but... koko being the one to originally propose the idea that Mawile could have been pedantic between cop/witness is weird in the exact world that Emmy is godfather because otherwise the mafia could have just let everyone think that godfathers couldn't be a thing - possibly it was done for the principle of self-preservation and to give me something to latch onto, but that seems tenuous. 

I also felt like both koko and Butterfree seemed okay with Emmy dying, which could make sense in a non-godfather Emmy world if they wanted to continue to fight kyeugh's checks, but probably less so if Emmy was green checked since Emmy would basically be their only hope to endgame? Does that make sense?


----------



## Keldeo

Like, okay, the moment you stop considering bussing is the moment mafia start to bus etc. and I totally miscleared koko for feeling like e'd let Seshas die, but... bussing day 1 is heard of - bussing your godfather seems irresponsible. 

tl;dr my conclusion is that Emmy is probably just town here and not godfather, i.e. game is probably not easy, smh my head.

This probably doesn't actually have to rely on behavioral stuff, since if I am dying today, storm could track Emmy and Mist could backup their result tonight, and in the world Emmy is mafia that 100% would red check her, right? If she's a godfather ninja then (screams), if mafia have multiple kills somehow they've already won after I die, so this seems solid except for like... the wildly specific world that Emmy is exactly like godfather roleblocker and also didn't block anyone fsr last night.


----------



## Keldeo

Man, 4 starting mafia + a third-party seems like a lot. It's a weight off shoulders to know that there isn't an outgroup, though, that was a good question tbh tbh.


----------



## Keldeo

I dunno, I'm really busy today but I could like. Walk through my EOD1 and why I'd never behave how I did while the wagons were apparently actually w/w, walk through how to believe I'm mafia here you have to believe that I would care zero about Seshas dying on day 1, then go all-out defending Butterfree/koko after them being literally red checked, then for some reason carry the kill against a town tracker despite having an outed partner, then claim a role that is falsifiable by yet another town role? 

I don't know if that would actually do anything for anyone... though no matter who the last mafia is I've been setting myself up as a ripe misyeet since day 3 (probably since like day 1) and that's on me, not any of you. Projecting town is a two-way street and for a variety of reasons I didn't do it well this game - room for improvement when I come back to playing, I guess.


----------



## Keldeo

@RedneckPhoenix - Can you tell me more about why you decided to target the people that you did? 

@storm - What is your one-shot? Can I ask why'd you track kyeugh last night? 

@Mistyx - I'm specifically wondering why you voted koko apparently based on votecounts - can you tell me more about your thought process there presumably believing based on your previous action that kyeugh was the witness / after tbh just flipped?  

Also, can you three all claim your flavor if you haven't already, and speak briefly about the other two names above? "The last mafia is not them because it's Keldeo" is I suppose a fair enough thought but I want to know what about their behavior makes them town. In other words, this is a request to show your work before you get into final 3.


----------



## Keldeo

Actually, storm, could you talk about the reasoning behind all of the people you tracked? I'm sorry if I missed it somewhere!


----------



## Keldeo

Trying to decipher the Wikipedia stuff I received from tbh through Mawile, uh, I'm thinking the first section means that they asked how many (town?) doctors there are and were confused by "egg as food," which I am also confused by as an answer to this question, and the rest is reads whose value to me is tempered by the fact I'm guessing they are probably shrugtunneling me from the grave as I write this, ahah.



Mistyx said:


> hmm that actually brings something up
> 
> I received a weird anonymous message n0 that still no one has claimed
> 
> was it just hydre's main and the public announcement was their 1-shot?


Also fwiw this makes sense to me, I think everyone else's role is accounted for, outside a mafia fakeclaim but idk why seshas would fruit vendor you at the same time one of their teammates messaged you. It raises the question of who all Hydreigon targeted but I suppose they could have gotten unlucky and messaged like everyone who died or something.

re: your plan, sorry, but I'm not sure I see why any mafia in that scenario wouldn't just kill Emmy? Am I missing something?


----------



## Keldeo

Keldeo said:


> Man, 4 starting mafia + a third-party seems like a lot.


like, if VM was 3p, we have yeeted all non-town and we're still going into final 3... (still final 4 if Hydreigon hadn't died.) woweek.


----------



## Keldeo

Also, quick notes that storm tracking kyeugh to Emmy confirms that Mist isn't just making that result up, even though I see like zero reason for her to make it up, and there is also an unaccounted-for block of kyeugh n1 but not sure if that came from a fakeclaiming mafia dead or alive, or like, Hydreigon? (also on RNP, iirc?)

Without rereading, thoughts on non-Emmy people are like...

storm felt good for handling of koko/Butterfree iirc, although bets about that probably off after kyeugh claimed her koko check on day 2. I don't really remember their treatment of Seshas right now, I think they felt like onboard with the wagon but didn't actually vote there, which feels like a good look as well. I honestly am not sure what the mafia agenda was at EOD1 - Butterfree didn't seem to want Seshas to die when she checked in, but they ended up being the one to die over koko, so who knows. Mafia tracker could make sense with RNP's main role, though I'm not sure why they'd repeatedly track me - fishing for a guilty, I guess...? Or, actually, most all people had claimed at that point so that's not a point in their favor. 

Off the cuff I feel like Mist probably looks best from a bird's eye perspective, because like... in order for all these things to have happened, I think she'd basically have been going in with intent to make herself look really mechanically good, even before the redchecks came out. Getting apparently fruit vendored by Seshas n0 (and Butterfree was trying to set that up as w/w iirc), recharging RNP's action, and copying the dead townies' actions recently. Solving today is like totally fakeable but seems leg. There are notes that ring strangely, like her post pulling up all of the EOD votecounts seeming like busywork, but it's like really hard for me to say that outweighs the mechanics.

RNP had an early claim (good given old meta on him) and what seem* to be extremely protown action uses on DM/Jack/Hydrei, I don't really see much agenda in that. I suppose he could have wanted to set himself up to look good, but it uh seems like a lot, particularly because Jack appeared to be the vig shot that night so it's not like he could have pulled the old "shoot the person I'm checking." The one-shot persisting after apparently being blocked puzzles me a bit, but it looks from Hydreigon's reaction that the action went through, so that makes sense I guess. Think I would look up how Butterfree treated his d1 claim, because in hindsight I wonder whether she was like faking paranoia about all town claims and just accepting at face value the mafia claims like Seshas's. 

* Assuming that Hydreigon was telling the truth about being some sort of town messenger role, I don't know that mafia messenger and town messenger together would be something Mawile would do, so probably nix the tinfoil of RNP making up fake messages. And anyway if they were messages they had the same result as his real action, and I don't know why he wouldn't have just claimed to have targeted one of koko/Butterfree and let them "prove" their innocence. Actually probably I lied about Mist and RNP looks the best to me because of that, unless they were worried about the risk of us deciding to yeet the affected person anyway and having RNP proven wrong.

I guess that means my preliminary conclusion is it's... most likely storm, just based on Mist and RNP having mechanical stuff in favor? But off memory, there's still behavioral things that don't feel right with that world. 

I'm fading fast, I'll try to check in before deadline and stuff but don't think I can promise much. I'll reread and post more in f3 for sure, and I now see that Emmy was around to react to Mist's ping, so. glgl.


----------



## Keldeo

Keldeo said:


> I now see that Emmy was around to react to Mist's ping, so.


i.e., Emmy probably dies tonight, I don't know what I was thinking theorizing that she maybe wouldn't and also wouldn't be able to vote.


----------



## Keldeo

I'm sorry for spamming walls - was kind of just dumping thoughts and things got away from me. Actually going to go now.


----------



## Keldeo

Haha I lied one more thing, I have not been keeping any sort of spreadsheet this game but I would be if I were mafia!!


----------



## Keldeo

Uh I just realized that you have no way to know that’s true, sorry. 4 am thoughts.


----------



## Keldeo

Sorry I’m sorry I’m trying to remove it but I keep thinking of things

Storm and RNP, can you elaborate on why you thought I was the last mafia before Mist revealed her result about Emmy?


----------



## RedneckPhoenix

sorry but i don't talk to fuckin liars


----------



## RedneckPhoenix

especially when they still don't realize that someone saw them killing tbh^2


----------



## RedneckPhoenix

i respect the play keldeo but even in the parallel universe where you're town, it makes sense to lynch you bc, yknow, you visited the Hella Dead person on the night they died. that's what we in the business call Being A Prime Suspect

let's assume, for a moment, the mafia is storm. after lynching you, it's just me, mist, emmy, and storm. storm, say, decides to kill mist. in that timeline, i pester mawile about making sure emmy is around for the day phase. we lynch storm, flips mafia, win. i trust that mist would do the same if i were to die. and if emmy dies, then me and mist just. hit storm.

i don't think mist could be mafia and honestly i'd feel really fucking betrayed and probably cry if they flipped red because they recharged my one-shot which helped the town, if they were mafia they could have just said that shit in scumchat and been all "hey shut the fuck up i'm gonna recharge your one-shot, have fun" and not mentioned it in thread

if i'm mafia, then fuck you mawile i'm the only one allowed to make bastard games like this

ironically the most dangerous universe comes when emmy is theoretically mafia, because they _haven't FUCKIN posted _damn near at all so it's hard to tell if they're purposefully being quiet or just genuinely that easily distracted

i say all this with the purpose of encouraging fellow town members and threatening the members of the mafia. of course, none of this will matter when you flip red.


----------



## Novae

Keldeo said:


> Trying to decipher the Wikipedia stuff I received from tbh through Mawile, uh, I'm thinking the first section means that they asked how many (town?) doctors there are and were confused by "egg as food," which I am also confused by as an answer to this question, and the rest is reads whose value to me is tempered by the fact I'm guessing they are probably shrugtunneling me from the grave as I write this, ahah.
> 
> 
> 
> Mistyx said:
> 
> 
> 
> hmm that actually brings something up
> 
> I received a weird anonymous message n0 that still no one has claimed
> 
> was it just hydre's main and the public announcement was their 1-shot?
> 
> 
> 
> Also fwiw this makes sense to me, I think everyone else's role is accounted for, outside a mafia fakeclaim but idk why seshas would fruit vendor you at the same time one of their teammates messaged you. It raises the question of who all Hydreigon targeted but I suppose they could have gotten unlucky and messaged like everyone who died or something.
> 
> re: your plan, sorry, but I'm not sure I see why any mafia in that scenario wouldn't just kill Emmy? Am I missing something?
Click to expand...

because I simply copy emmy's action onto herself! so we get a double doc setup


----------



## Novae

my check specifically says it was emmy so that's not a world

I guess storm would be scum over RNP? but like, why fake a red check when your last partner is already set to go down


----------



## storm

I tracked kyeugh mostly because I was. not really sure if emmy was even paying attention to the game, and as I still suspect you are mafia, my assumption was you would have someone else make the kill in case I was still tracking you, so I wanted to try to catch that if I could. however I didn't really have any decent reasoning for kyeugh over anyone else - I was really indecisive over who to pick for the whole night, and secondguessed it long after I sent in my action


----------



## RedneckPhoenix

Mistyx said:


> Keldeo said:
> 
> 
> 
> Trying to decipher the Wikipedia stuff I received from tbh through Mawile, uh, I'm thinking the first section means that they asked how many (town?) doctors there are and were confused by "egg as food," which I am also confused by as an answer to this question, and the rest is reads whose value to me is tempered by the fact I'm guessing they are probably shrugtunneling me from the grave as I write this, ahah.
> 
> 
> 
> Mistyx said:
> 
> 
> 
> hmm that actually brings something up
> 
> I received a weird anonymous message n0 that still no one has claimed
> 
> was it just hydre's main and the public announcement was their 1-shot?
> 
> 
> 
> Also fwiw this makes sense to me, I think everyone else's role is accounted for, outside a mafia fakeclaim but idk why seshas would fruit vendor you at the same time one of their teammates messaged you. It raises the question of who all Hydreigon targeted but I suppose they could have gotten unlucky and messaged like everyone who died or something.
> 
> re: your plan, sorry, but I'm not sure I see why any mafia in that scenario wouldn't just kill Emmy? Am I missing something?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> because I simply copy emmy's action onto herself! so we get a double doc setup
Click to expand...

or we get emmy killed in the world she's mafia


----------



## Novae

I mean. that's not a world.

but yes


----------



## Keldeo

RedneckPhoenix said:


> i respect the play keldeo but even in the parallel universe where you're town, it makes sense to lynch you bc, yknow, you visited the Hella Dead person on the night they died. that's what we in the business call Being A Prime Suspect


Thanks for answering! I see where you’re coming from but I really don’t know how to explain better how this in fact does the opposite of make me a suspect... 



Mistyx said:


> because I simply copy emmy's action onto herself! so we get a double doc setup


Ahh, I see! This whole time I was thinking you receive people’s action results.

So the question becomes am I willing to bet the game on (Emmy being town,) Mist being town and mafia between storm and RNP not having any sort of blocking or redirecting or disruptive role. Uh. Maybe? Even if no I guess there’s not much I can do.



Mistyx said:


> my check specifically says it was emmy so that's not a world
> 
> I guess storm would be scum over RNP? but like, why fake a red check when your last partner is already set to go down


Okay cool.

So that toDay happens exactly like it has, I guess. I did actually target tbh so it’s not like they were making up a result wholesale, but that was bad luck on my part so whatever. Probably there’s some takeaway about “wolfing as town” from that haha.



storm said:


> I tracked kyeugh mostly because I was. not really sure if emmy was even paying attention to the game, and as I still suspect you are mafia, my assumption was you would have someone else make the kill in case I was still tracking you, so I wanted to try to catch that if I could. however I didn't really have any decent reasoning for kyeugh over anyone else - I was really indecisive over who to pick for the whole night, and secondguessed it long after I sent in my action


Okay, thank you. If I were mafia I’d not have had any living partners last night to send the kill, so if you are town you could have confirmed me, but that’s immaterial now.

What are your day action and flavor?


----------



## Keldeo

I guess the real plot twist would be that we are all in fact town and one of the mafia isn’t actually dead


----------



## Novae

Keldeo said:


> I guess the real plot twist would be that we are all in fact town and one of the mafia isn’t actually dead


I already tried voting mawile earlier, didn't work


----------



## storm

...honestly I have had a lot of trouble keeping track of how many potential living mafia we should have or everyone's claims so uh. I should have stuck on you but didn't! my inability to estimate is on me

I have a one-shot gladiator power, and my flavour role is a Very Angry Dog 


kyeugh said:


> View attachment 548


my tracking power is sniffing, my immunity was linked to the sheer amount of rage packed within my small frame making it impossible to speak to me without getting bitten and my gladiator challenge is through snarling at my chosen opponent. it's honestly the best flavour and I love it, thank you @Mawile 

~despite all my rage I am still just a dog in a mafia game~


----------



## Keldeo

omg, I can’t do it. I can’t vote for a small dog.


----------



## Mawile

*Vote History:*


Spoiler



RedneckPhoenix voted Keldeo (#1797)
storm voted Keldeo (#1798)
Mistyx voted Keldeo (#1801)



*Active Votes (+ post numbers):*


Spoiler



RedneckPhoenix voted Keldeo (#1797)
storm voted Keldeo (#1798)
Mistyx voted Keldeo (#1801)



*Vote Count:*
Keldeo (3): RedneckPhoenix (#1797), storm (#1798), Mistyx (#1801)
(Nonvoters: Keldeo, Despicable Meme, kyeugh, Vipera Magnifica, IndigoEmmy, kokorico, Trebek, tbh^2, Butterfree, JackPK, Seshas, Hydreigon25)

EoD in like 2 hours? Time is fake, as per usual


----------



## Hydreigon25

* a portal opens & a ghostly version of hydreigon appears *

_check RNP tonight _

* a ghostly version of hydreigon then disappears *​


----------



## Mawile

*Hydreigon, you are dead. Do not post, and especially do not post game-relevant posts.*


----------



## Keldeo

Hmm, I suppose RNP's post didn't entirely address the question of why vote me before Mist's check on Emmy was announced (the plan of yeeting me and then storm doesn't work if Emmy is a question mark). I guess "I think the track is a red check on Keldeo" is valid.

For clarity I started writing this post before Hydreigon posted.


----------



## Keldeo

Ehh, I suppose anything more I do right now is just getting a head start on final 3 work, and possibly I'd mafia-side anyway because lol my reads this game, so shrug. I think I'm down enough to trust Mist's auto plan after sleeping on it - winning this game via sheer force of mechanics seems fitting, anyway. 

I was gonna say storm should track RNP tonight because otherwise a hypothetical mafia RNP could make someone else untraceable, but I don't think that would actually help him? Should storm's track be set to a specific person?


----------



## Mawile

*EoD is in like 10 minutes, despite time being a lie*


----------



## Keldeo

Spoiler: gifs






Mistyx said:


> sup nerds
> 
> kyeugh is a legit cop
> 
> I have a red check, but I'm going to hold off on outing it











kyeugh said:


> kyeugh said:
> 
> 
> 
> i'm insane/paranoid
> 
> 
> 
> btw, i'm currently assuming this is the case
Click to expand...










tbh² said:


> _*on n2*_*,*
> 
> 
> 
> how many roles are there in this game that may result in inaccurate cop results, (e.g. framers/godfathers/non-regular sanity cop)?
> 
> 
> 
> to which mawile replied with
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Zero-dimensional space - Wikipedia
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> en.wikipedia.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> -m
Click to expand...










kokorico said:


> there are no "roles that may result in inaccurate cop results" because there are no cop results at all











Mawile said:


> Butterfree (7): Mist1422 (#1458), Hydreigon25 (#1466), tbh^2 (#1471), storm (#1658), kyeugh (#1663), RedneckPhoenix (#1667), kokorico (#1669)


----------



## Keldeo

kokorico said:


> This is the way the game ends
> This is the way the game ends
> This is the way the game ends
> Not with a bang but a





Spoiler











Spoiler



* @Mawile perform an act of clown terrorism on Mawile*


----------



## Mawile

hey keldeo did you want that post from ACNH that you just posted in here.


----------



## Mawile

*The day is now over. Flavor coming shortly.*


----------



## Mawile

*End of Day 5*​
After a small amount of discussion, the townspeople generally agree on Keldeo to throw into the Hell Pit, and retreat to their homes. The mayor continues to sit outside, warming his hands at the Hell Pit, waiting in silence.

For a brief few moments, a few people leave their houses to talk to one another in the square. Nods and brief exchanges occur, and the townspeople scurry back inside. It's simply too cold, and they've already determined who to murder, anyway.

That's all this is. It's essentially a death sentence, with the hope that the victim turns up guilty. It's not the best way to do justice, and everyone knows it. They've essentially murdered some of their innocent neighbors, while the guilty got to live another day.

Trebek's car continues to sit empty, and the mayor briefly considers just getting in it and leaving. Nobody would have to know what happened here, he could just start a new life, he could just try to forget about the ten graves he had to dig. But he started this, it was kind of his idea, he built the Hell Pit.

The mayor decides he has to see it through to the end. He doesn't leave, even though he could just drive off into the sunset. Not that there is one anyway, the clouds continue to blot out the light of the sun. He briefly wonders if the weather is a reflection of how dire their situation is.

The wind blows around some of the loose dirt on the most freshly dug grave. There's ten graves, all hand-dug, all caused by this whole mess. At least the townspeople can try to shift blame off of themselves, with the thought that "well, there had to have been mafia members helping us throw them into the Hell Pit, so it's not entirely my fault".

The mayor absentmindedly wafts his hand through the steam rising up from the Hell Pit, and checks the time with his other hand. It's time for the townspeople to gather for the execution of Keldeo.

He goes door to door, and asks each of the five remaining townspeople to come gather in the square. They quickly confirm that, yes, Keldeo is the one they wish to throw into the Hell Pit, and ready themselves to throw him in. He helpfully lets them know that his door is open, no need to shatter any windows, and that everything they need to know is inside.

Right as the townspeople start to hoist him upon their shoulders, Keldeo grabs onto the mayor, and presses a button on a remote.

The two explode into a pile of blood, guts, and confetti.

The townspeople, with shocked faces and covered in blood spatters, agree that they need to head over to Keldeo's house. The door is open, as he mentioned, and they gently push it open.

Keldeo's house is covered in classwork and miscellaneous clown stuff. His computer sits on his desk, screen on, with a Notepad document titled "Mafia Identities". It contains a list of the four mafia members in the town: Butterfree, kokorico, Seshas, and Keldeo, along with their favorite Subway sandwiches, and how to get in the secret mafia backroom in the local Subway. Another document open on his computer is simply titled "Confetti Cannons 101".

That would explain why the Subway hasn't opened this morning: it was run by the mafia. At least the townspeople can relax now.

The mafia are dead.

*Keldeo is dead. He was mafia.
Mawile is dead. He was self-aligned?* I guess?

❝ --- ❞

*A New Day*​
The townspeople sleep in, clearly relaxed after the events of the previous day. They wake up, one by one, to the warmth of the sun shining in through their windows. It's a refreshing change of weather.

The four of them eventually make their way out of their houses to the town square, where a pile of confetti waits for them beside the Hell Pit. It's the remains of the mayor and Keldeo. Everyone remaining looks solumnly at the pile of confetti, fused together with dried blood and guts. It's a shame the mayor had to die like that, at the hands of the last mafia member.

Nobody really wants to clean it, or look at it, for that matter. It's been there since last night. Everybody kind of just wants to leave it alone and go do something else.

Before everyone heads out, three balloons float out of the Hell Pit: one adorned with a snake, one with a chicken, and one with a Keldeo. The balloons float off into the sky, and are enveloped with a godly light, before disappearing.

A new day has begun, and with that, a new start for the small little town.

*The town has won. Vipera Magnifica has also won.
Setup information/night actions coming shortly.*


----------



## Novae

COPYCAT BEST ROLE


----------



## tbh²

tbh² said:


> oh hell


----------



## qenya

i still think we should yeet emmy. just to be safe


----------



## Trebek




----------



## storm

!!!!!!


----------



## Novae

if keldeo flipped town I was planning on copying storm onto themself lol


----------



## Mawile

*Roles:*​*Butterfree*: Mafia Quote Cop with 1-shot Watcher
*kokorico*: Mafia Main Role Roleblocker with 1-shot Redirector
*Seshas*: Mafia Fruit Vendor with 1-shot Bodyguard
*Keldeo*: Mafia Cannoneer with 1-shot Terrorist
*Mistyx*: Town MR Copycat with 1-shot Recharger
*Hydreigon25*: Town Messenger with 1-shot Modposter
*kyeugh*: Town Witness with 1-shot Global 1-shot Roleblocker
*storm*: Town Tracker with 1-shot Gladiator
*tbh^2*: Town Wiki Oracle with 1-shot Bulletproof
*Trebek*: Town Bus Driver with 1-shot Self-Commuter
*RedneckPhoenix*: Town Sensei with 1-shot Hypnotist
*Despicable Meme*: Town Vigilante with 1-shot Hunter
*IndigoEmmy*: Town Doctor with 1-shot Strongman
*JackPK*: Town Doctor with 1-shot Millionare
*Vipera Magnifica*: 3P Warlock with 1-shot Godly-Reviver

*Role PMs, as they were sent:*​


Spoiler: Butterfree



Hello *Butterfree*, and welcome to *Out of Context TVTropes Mafia Quotes Mafia*! Your role is:​


Vipera Magnifica said:


> Butterfree said:
> 
> 
> 
> w/w is short for "wolf/wolf" i.e. the idea that the two players being discussed are both mafia.
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 442
Click to expand...

You are two wolves, one is willing to sniff out information, and the other just kind of... stares directly at you. Both are gay, though. You don't really know what that part has to do with anything, but it's in the quote so it's a fact.

Through using the powers of the wolves, you have gained the ability to sniff out one person's quote each night, but not their alignment or actual role or anything like that. Out of context wolves can only detect more out of context quotes, after all.

Your fellow ingroup mafia members are *kokorico*, *Seshas*, and *Keldeo(ooooooo)*. Each night, anyone besides Keldeo can choose to carry out the factional nightkill. In carrying out the nightkill, you forfeit your night action for that night. Keldeo is too busy learning about clown terrorism to perform the nightkill. He still has time to talk with the mafia, though.

As long as Keldeo is alive, the mafia may abstain from performing a nightkill in favor of "storing" the nightkill to be used on another night. For example, you may opt to not perform a nightkill on nights 0 and 1, instead choosing to perform 3 nightkills on night 2. (This also means that you, kokorico, and Seshas can all carry out your own night actions on a night where you choose to store the nightkill.) If Keldeo dies, then all stored nightkills are lost.

In addition, being two wolves, you also have access to a one-time watcher ability (thanks to one of the wolves). You can choose to watch a single person and learn the names of all players who used a night action on that player that same night. If you use this, you cannot perform any other abilities that night.

Because you are so devoted to being two wolves, you simply can't fathom the idea of _not_ being a wolf. As such, you are passively immune to being recruited by the town to become a townie.
❝ --- ❞
In summary, you are a *Mafia-aligned Quote Cop* with a *1-shot Watcher ability*, and you are *passively immune to town recruitment*.
Each night, you may choose to either *find out someone's quote*, *carry out the nightkill* or *watch someone one time in the game.*
You win when the mafia makes up more than half the remaining players.
_(if you have any questions, please contact me!)_​





Spoiler: kokorico



Hello *kokorico*, and welcome to *Out of Context TVTropes Mafia Quotes Mafia*! Your role is:​


Boquise said:


> My browser froze and my task manager crashed so I had reboot the laptop, which made Windows believe it was the first time I had started the laptop so it ran the whole Windows set-up with me before letting me back. Needless to say, I spent the last hour eating ice cream tbh


You somehow managed to freeze your whole browser and broke Task Manager, somehow. In rebooting the laptop, you managed to waste a whole bunch of time, and you are extremely devoted to wasting other people's time.

By essentially "freezing" a person (through feeding them ice cream), you can choose to roleblock them for the night, but only if they aren't using any kind of one-shot ability that night. If they are, you're out of luck -- they managed to put off their Windows Updates through sheer willpower and will avoid your roleblocking ability that night. (Basically, you can only roleblock someone's main ability.)

Your fellow ingroup mafia members are *Butterfree*, *Seshas*, and *Keldeo(ooooooo)*. Each night, anyone besides Keldeo can choose to carry out the factional nightkill. In carrying out the nightkill, you forfeit your night action for that night. Keldeo is too busy learning about clown terrorism to perform the nightkill. He still has time to talk with the mafia, though.

As long as Keldeo is alive, the mafia may abstain from performing a nightkill in favor of "storing" the nightkill to be used on another night. For example, you may opt to not perform a nightkill on nights 0 and 1, instead choosing to perform 3 nightkills on night 2. (This also means that you, kokorico, and Seshas can all carry out your own night actions on a night where you choose to store the nightkill.) If Keldeo dies, then all stored nightkills are lost.

In addition, due to your quote being kind of an adventure to read through, you can manage to divert a single person's night action to another person of your choice. You can only do this once, though, since redirecting somebody's attention to someone else is a lot harder than just distracting them. If you use this, you cannot perform any other abilities that night.

Because of how you're essentially just the story of a frozen computer and wasted time, you're immune to having your win condition altered by any means. I mean, not like anybody would do that, right...?
❝ --- ❞
In summary, you are a *Mafia-aligned Main Ability Roleblocker* with a *1-shot Redirector ability*, and you are *passively immune to having your win condition altered*.
Each night, you may choose to either *roleblock somebody*, *carry out the nightkill* or *redirect somebody's action to someone else one time in the game.*
You win when the mafia makes up more than half the remaining players.
_(if you have any questions, please contact me!)_​





Spoiler: Seshas



Hello *Seshas*, and welcome to *Out of Context TVTropes Mafia Quotes Mafia*! Your role is:​


RedneckPhoenix said:


> The only way I'd take orders from you is if my job applications at Subway went through.


Guess what! You got the job at Subway. Your applications went through, and you showed up for the job one morning, only to find that Subway is actually a front for a criminal operation run by two wolves. Actual wolves, not even like the metaphorical mafia wolves we talk about in games.

You joined the mafia, apparently.

The wolves and the other mafia members decided that the absolute best use of your time is to make them sandwiches. You have to keep up the whole front of, you know, being a sandwich shop, so each night, you can give somebody a sandwich. The sandwiches don't do anything. You're not allowed access to the poisons yet, and you have to follow orders to not kill anybody with them. They can eat them if they want, you don't really care.

Your fellow ingroup mafia members are *Butterfree*, *kokorico*, and *Keldeo(ooooooo)*. Each night, anyone besides Keldeo can choose to carry out the factional nightkill. In carrying out the nightkill, you forfeit your night action for that night. Keldeo is too busy learning about clown terrorism to perform the nightkill. He still has time to talk with the mafia, though.

As long as Keldeo is alive, the mafia may abstain from performing a nightkill in favor of "storing" the nightkill to be used on another night. For example, you may opt to not perform a nightkill on nights 0 and 1, instead choosing to perform 3 nightkills on night 2. (This also means that you, kokorico, and Seshas can all carry out your own night actions on a night where you choose to store the nightkill.) If Keldeo dies, then all stored nightkills are lost.

In addition, the GM wanted to make a joke here about how bodyguards are just meat shields, and how Subway has meat sandwiches. So naturally, once in the game, you can choose to be a bodyguard and protect somebody from being killed that night. If they are targeted by a kill, you will die in their place. You know. Like a meat shield. (Even if you don't die that night, this action will still be used up if you decide to use it.) If you use this, you cannot perform any other abilities that night.

Because of how you're now legally contracted to work for Subway/the mafia, you cannot be made Disloyal. This means nobody can give your role the Disloyal modifier, which would make it impossible for you to target your fellow mafia members.
❝ --- ❞
In summary, you are a *Mafia-aligned Fruit (Sandwich?) Vendor* with a *1-shot Bodyguard ability*, and you are *passively immune to being made disloyal*.
Each night, you may choose to either *give somebody a sandwich*, *carry out the nightkill* or *become somebody's bodyguard one time in the game.*
You win when the mafia makes up more than half the remaining players.
_(if you have any questions, please contact me!)_​





Spoiler: Keldeo



Hello *Keldeo*, and welcome to *Out of Context TVTropes Mafia Quotes Mafia*! Your role is:​


mewtini said:


> ah, herbe. my sweet lad. pursue clown terrorism all that you want. anyone can be anything in this world as long as they set their mind to it <3


You followed mewtini's advice and ended up learning the honored time-honored trade of clown terrorism. As such, you enrolled in clown terrorism school, where you learned how to be a Good Mafia Member, how to do accounting, how to operate a confetti cannon, and how to also explode somebody into confetti (at the cost of your own life, of course).

So when you heard that your local mafia had an opening for a clown terrorist, of course you took the job. You still go part-time to the clown terrorism school, though.

Because your clown terrorist skills were desperately needed by this specific mafia, you're not allowed to go and perform the factional nightkill unless you're the only mafia member left. (You also have too much schoolwork to go and take the whole night off trying to kill someone.) Instead, you use your skills to passively budget out their nightkills.

Your fellow ingroup mafia members are *Butterfree*, *kokorico*, and *Seshas*. Each night, anyone besides you can choose to carry out the factional nightkill. In carrying out the nightkill, they forfeit their night action for that night. (If you are the only mafia member remaining, you may no longer use the Cannoneer ability, and you are then allowed to carry out the factional nightkill.)

As long as you are alive, the mafia may abstain from performing a nightkill in favor of "storing" the nightkill to be used on another night. For example, they may opt to not perform a nightkill on nights 0 and 1, instead choosing to perform 3 nightkills on night 2. (This also means that Butterfree, kokorico, and Seshas can all carry out their own night actions on a night where the mafia chooses to store the nightkill.) If you die, then all stored nightkills are lost, because your budgeting skills are sorely needed.

In addition, in being a clown terrorist, you can perform an act of clown terrorism at the cost of your own life. To do this, post "*@Mawile perform an act of clown terrorism on [Name]*" in bold, replacing [Name] with the person you want to explode.

Because of your heavy education in the art of avoiding aliens (as part of your courses on clown terrorism), you are aware of aliens. They exist, and no matter how hard they try, they won't turn you into one of them.
❝ --- ❞
In summary, you are a *Mafia-aligned Cannoneer* with a *1-shot Terrorist ability*, and you are *passively immune to becoming an alien*.
You do not have any night actions, but each day, you may choose to *blow someone up and die with them*. To do this, post "*@Mawile perform an act of clown terrorism on [Name]*" in bold, replacing [Name] with the person you want to explode. (The @ makes sure that I see it, so don't forget it!)
You win when the mafia makes up more than half the remaining players.
_(if you have any questions, please contact me!)_​





Spoiler: Mistyx



Hello *Mist1422*, and welcome to *Out of Context TVTropes Mafia Quotes Mafia*! Your role is:​


kyeugh said:


> i spent all day fucking with my desktop configuration so setting the word “conf” is taking me to a bad place


Like many other people who enjoy computers, you have spent a lot of time messing with your computer's settings. You can spend an entire day just emssing with your desktop configuration, saving it and reloading it and changing it in little ways.

So naturally, each night, you can essentially "save" someone's night action to your own desktop and use it on another person. It's only a temporary file, though, so you don't keep access to it after using it. In addition, the file isn't exactly human-readable, so it's kind of hard to open up the file to learn what night action you copied that night.

In addition, once per game, you can choose to reconfigure someone's one-shot action and give them an additional use of it. It takes a lot of effort, though, so you can really only do this once. If you use this, you cannot perform any other abilities that night.

Since you choose to stay in your room all day and mess with your desktop configuration, you're immune to being masonized. Why go out and talk to people when you can just sit in your room?
❝ --- ❞
In summary, you are a *Town-aligned Main Ability Copycat* with a *1-shot 1-shot Action Recharger ability*, and you are *passively immune to being masonized*.
Each night, you may choose to either *choose someone to copy their main night action on a second person* or *recharge someone's 1-shot action one time in the game.*
You win when all members of the mafia are dead.
_(if you have any questions, please contact me!)_​





Spoiler: Hydreigon25



Hello *Hydreigon25*, and welcome to *Out of Context TVTropes Mafia Quotes Mafia*! Your role is:​


Seshas said:


> How annoyed would you be if I just started typing in this font all the time


You have recently learned about the power of the font BBCode, and you have decided that everybody needs to know about it. Turns out that some people feel annoyed by people typing in Times New Roman all the time, and other people love it.

As such, once per night, you can send anybody a message about anything. You do this by sending it to me, and I will anonymously send it to them (and I will also put it in a font of my choice). The message can be about anything you want, but try to keep it to no longer than one or two sentences.

Sometimes you just really need everyone to be annoyed by seeing a message written in Times New Roman. As such, one time in the game, you can send a message to me to be posted in the main thread in the morning. The message will be posted without your name attached. If you use this, you cannot perform any other abilities that night.

In addition, your love of Times New Roman and other fonts makes you immune to being silenced from speaking during the day. Most silencers can only silence the default font, after all.
❝ --- ❞
In summary, you are a *Town-aligned Messenger* with a *1-shot Modposter ability*, and you are *passively immune to being day silenced*.
Each night, you may choose to either *send a message to somebody* or *have me post a message in the main thread when the next day phase starts one time in the game.*
You win when all members of the mafia are dead.
_(if you have any questions, please contact me!)_​





Spoiler: kyeugh



Hello *kyeugh*, and welcome to *Out of Context TVTropes Mafia Quotes Mafia*! Your role is:​


mewtini said:


> i'm not even lying rn i had a dream the other night that i got married to ed sheeran and i woke up in a cold sweat at 5:30am
> 
> anyway


You have not gotten a good night's sleep in some time, to be honest. Every night, you wake up in a cold sweat at 5:30am, and you're kind of getting a bit sick of it. You can't even really mention these dreams to a whole lot of other people without your words being taken out of context and used in a mafia game-

But, uh. That's beside the point.

Since you wake up at 5:30 am every morning, you are awake before anyone else even gets up for the day. You tend to just wander around, and you've gotten good at looking into people's windows just for fun. People in this town kind of suck at hiding incriminating evidence in their living rooms, so each night, you can choose someone's window to look in and determine their alignment.

Sometimes, though, you look in a window and see a dead body. In those cases, you simply look in the window, and if you break out in a cold sweat, then you know it was the mafia who did it. So basically, if the person you choose dies that night, you'll learn the alignment of their killer, but not who the killer is.

Since you're so accustomed to being dealt psychic damage every night, you have enough experience to be able to deal psychic damage to everyone. As such, once per game, you can choose to deal psychic damage to everyone in the game and prevent them from using a 1-shot action that night. (This will not use up their 1-shot action, and they will be notified that their action did not go through.) If you use this, you cannot perform any other abilities that night.

In addition, since your role is so intrinsically tied to how much psychic damage you're dealt by your dreams, you are immune to having your whole role switched with another person.
❝ --- ❞
In summary, you are a *Town-aligned Witness* with a *1-shot Global 1-shot Action Roleblocker*, and you are *passively immune to having your role switched*.
Each night, you may choose to either *inspect someone* or *globally roleblock all 1-shot actions one time in the game.*
You win when all members of the mafia are dead.
_(if you have any questions, please contact me!)_​





Spoiler: storm



Hello *storm*, and welcome to *Out of Context TVTropes Mafia Quotes Mafia*! Your role is:​


kyeugh said:


> View attachment 548


You are a very angry dog. That's, uh, pretty much it.

Being a dog, you have a very good nose, and you can track down anybody's scent to figure out who they targeted that night. If they didn't go anywhere, you can tell that too!

Since you are such an angry dog, you also have the option to challenge somebody during the day once. To do this, post "*@Mawile snarl at [Name]*" in bold, replacing [Name] with the person you want to challenge. By challenging somebody, you will reset all votes made so far that day, and people can only vote for either you or the person you are challenging. Using this action during the day does not prevent you from using your night action. This action can only be used once, and may not be used in the last 2 hours of the Day.

Due to the sheer amount of anger emanating off of you, any neighborizers cannot target you. You are a dog after all, and you would likely bite anybody who would try to talk to you.
❝ --- ❞
In summary, you are a *Town-aligned Tracker* with a *1-shot Gladiator ability*, and you are *passively immune to being neighborized at any time*.
Each night, you may choose to *track someone*.
Each day, you may choose to *challenge somebody one time in the game* to force people to vote for only you or your challenger. To do this, post "*@Mawile snarl at [Name]*" in bold, replacing [Name] with the person you want to challenge. (The @ makes sure that I see it, so don't forget it!)
You win when all members of the mafia are dead.
_(if you have any questions, please contact me!)_​





Spoiler: tbh^2



Hello *tbh^2*, and welcome to *Out of Context TVTropes Mafia Quotes Mafia*! Your role is the honorary:​


Seshas said:


> *YES. Snowboards* is manufacturer of snowboards.[1][2] It was founded in 2009 and is based in Europe.[3][4]
> 
> YES. Snowboards Inc.
> 
> TypePrivateIndustrySporting goodsFounded2009HeadquartersSwitzerlandKey peopleRomain De Marchi, JP Solberg, DCPProductsSnowboard equipment, apparel, accessoriesNumber of employees20Websitehttp://www.yesnowboard.com/


You are the incarnation of all Wikipedia articles, but specifically YES. Snowboards in particular. In being all Wikipedia articles at once, you have an incredible amount of knowledge. You know Everything, At All Times, That Has Ever Existed.

But even Wikipedia can't divulge the secrets of this mafia game's setup.

As such, once per night, you can PM me a question about the setup of the game. This can include questions about roles, ratios, or anything else that was determined before the roles were randomized and assigned to players. I will respond with what I deem to be an acceptable Wikipedia article as a response. These may or may not be clear responses, so good luck figuring them out!

In addition to being the human form of Wikipedia, you also have a snowboard. The snowboard is somehow bulletproof, because of the sheer quality of YES. Snowboards' snowboards. As such, the first time you are killed at night, the snowboard will automatically stop it, and will then break.

Wikipedia will not be taken down by a single evil person who is trying to go around killing everbody. As such, you are immune to being killed by a serial killer.
❝ --- ❞
In summary, you are a *Town-aligned Wikipedia Oracle* with a *1-shot Bulletproof ability*, and you are *passively immune to being killed by a serial killer*.
Each night, you may choose to *ask me a question about the setup*. In addition, *you will be automatically protected from the first nighttime kill that targets you*.
You win when all members of the mafia are dead.
_(if you have any questions, please contact me!)_​





Spoiler: Trebek



Hello *Trebek*, and welcome to *Out of Context TVTropes Mafia Quotes Mafia*! Your role is:​


rari_teh said:


> Could you elaborate?





kyeugh said:


> no


Plain and simple, you refuse to elaborate on things, because you are driving a car. You are somehow the only person in this town who owns a car, because apparently nobody else goes places. (If people in this town had cars, they would just all leave and not subject themselves to suffering through a mafia game. But instead, they get to risk death! Great.)

Because you have a car, you have made an agreement with everyone in the town that you can drive them places. Because of there now being mafia in the town, people figured that maybe they could trip up the mafia by switching who sleeps in which house at night without telling anybody. Each night, you can choose two people to switch, and actions targeting one will then target the other for that night.

In addition, due to having a car, you can leave the town completely for one night, making you completely untargetable. You can't bring a whole lot in your car, so you can really only bring supplies for one night, and then you have to return to the town the next morning. You can only do this once, because leaving on multiple nights would just make you feel guilty. If you use this, you cannot perform any other abilities that night.

Because of having a car, you are immune to having your house set on fire and burned down. You can live out of your car, I guess.
❝ --- ❞
In summary, you are a *Town-aligned Bus Driver* with a *1-shot Self-Commuter ability*, and you are *passively immune to being set on fire*.
Each night, you may choose to either *swap two people, causing them to be targeted by night actions intended for the other* or *commute yourself one time in the game.*
You win when all members of the mafia are dead.
_(if you have any questions, please contact me!)_​





Spoiler: RedneckPhoenix



Hello *RedneckPhoenix*, and welcome to *Out of Context TVTropes Mafia Quotes Mafia*! Your role is:​


mewtini said:


> my 'best friend' is an abomination of nature who is emblematic of the demented hell-religion i worship



You have somehow befriended an eldritch abomination from the Realm Beyond who refuses to tell you its True And All-Powerful Name, and have formed a whole religion around it. Nobody really wants to join your religion, because how do you worship the Great Thousand-Faced One With Seventeen Names properly in only three dimensions?


So because of your relationship with the Oldest Second Tenth-Dimensional Being, you have been granted the ability to make somebody's night action completely untrackable for that night. You suspect it's through some sixth-radial magic that the Longest Seven-Handed God bestows upon you, but you're not really questioning it, to be honest.


In addition to this, the Darkest Sun's All-Aware Eye has also gifted you a one-time ability to hypnotize somebody into being forced to reveal their role alignment in their first post the next morning. Because of the physical toll this magic takes on you, you can only use it once. If you use this, you cannot perform any other abilities that night.


(passive)

❝ --- ❞

In summary, you are a *Town-aligned Sensei* with a *1-shot Hypnotist ability*, and you are *passively immune to (passive)*.

Each night, you may choose to either *make someone's night action undetectable* or *hypnotize someone into revealing their true alignment the following day one time in the game.*

You win when all members of the mafia are dead.

_(if you have any questions, please contact me!)_​


Spoiler: The passive I forgot



You are immune to cult recruitment due to basically being your own cult.








Spoiler: Despicable Meme



Hello *Despicable Meme*, and welcome to *Out of Context TVTropes Mafia Quotes Mafia*! Your role is:​


kyeugh said:


> wagons are far too heavy for even a gigantic animal such as an elephant to throw comfortably, let alone meek humans living hundreds of miles from you.  grow up.


You chose to get strong enough to be able to throw wagons, despite not even being a gigantic elephant. Through the sheer power of minion memes, you now have the strength to throw an entire wagon hundreds of miles from you.

The typical conestoga wagon weighed about 1300 pounds, or 590 kg, which is generally heavy enough to kill a regular human person, of which everyone in the town is. (At least, you think? Hopefully everyone in the town is a regular human person.) As such, each night, you can choose to kill somebody using an old-fashioned conestoga wagon.

In addition, you are determined to get revenge upon those who have wronged you, and those who believed you could not throw a wagon. If you are ever yeeted, you can choose somebody to kill along with you. After the day ends, I will post a vote count and give everyone about 10 minutes to correct their vote if needed before I write up the day's results. During this time, post in the thread "*@Mawile throw one last wagon at [Name]*" in bold, replacing [Name] with the person you want to take with you.

(passive)
❝ --- ❞
In summary, you are a *Town-aligned Vigilante* with a *1-shot Hunter ability*, and you are *passively immune to (passive)*.
Each night, you may choose to *kill someone*.
Each day, if you are yeeted, you may choose to *take revenge and kill someone*. To do this, post "*@Mawile throw one last wagon at [Name]*" in bold, replacing [Name] with the person you want to kill. (The @ makes sure that I see it, so don't forget it!)
You win when all members of the mafia are dead.
_(if you have any questions, please contact me!)_​


Spoiler: The passive I forgot



You are passively immune to being lovers-ized, because you are so focused on building up strength to throw wagons to develop a love life.








Spoiler: IndigoEmmy



Hello *IndigoEmmy*, and welcome to *Out of Context TVTropes Mafia Quotes Mafia*! Your role is:​


Keldeo said:


> Spoiler


You are the classic Cap'n Butterfree's Oops! All Doctors, a cereal first created in the original TVTropes Mafia.

It's uh. Kind of obvious what role you would get from this, just based on the image being Oops! All Doctors. But regardless of that, you have inherited the power of all of the doctors in that image, and are therefore a doctor. Every night, you can choose someone to heal.

In addition, you also inherited the secret killing abilities of the several mafia-aligned doctors present on that image, despite still being town-aligned. As such, once in the game, you may perform a kill that goes through almost any protective abilities also performed on that player. If you use this, you cannot perform any other abilities that night.

Because you are every doctor, you also have knowledge of poisons and how to cure them. As such, you are immune to being poisoned.
❝ --- ❞
In summary, you are a *Town-aligned Doctor* with a *1-shot Strongman ability*, and you are *passively immune to being poisoned*.
Each night, you may choose to either *heal somebody* or *strongman kill someone one time in the game.*
You win when all members of the mafia are dead.
_(if you have any questions, please contact me!)_​





Spoiler: JackPK



Hello *JackPK*, and welcome to *Out of Context TVTropes Mafia Quotes Mafia*! Your role is:​


kyeugh said:


> oh, i don’t think so. i’m not falling for the old “give a tcod person my bank information” trick again.



You clearly made this mistake at least once or twice, since this quote exists, but you've learned from your mistakes. No other tcod people will recieve your bank information ever again, and your money is all your own.


Because you have money, you managed to attend a basic medical class, and learned how to tend to wounds like a stab wound, and how to give CPR. Your work may not necessarily be the best, but you have more than enough money to pay for any additional medical charges that result from your questionable care. Every night, you can choose someone to heal.


Because you learned from your mistakes and kept your bank information private, you now have a ton of money, and can afford to leave a last will. This last will can be of any length and say anything. After you die, I will give you until the next phase change to write up a last will, and I will then post it at the start of the next day phase. You will not be added to graveyard chat until the deadline for you to write a last will is up.


In addition, because you have so much money, you can pay off any mafia recruiters who try to recruit you. As such, you are immune to mafia recruitment.

❝ --- ❞

In summary, you are a *Town-aligned Doctor* with a *1-shot Millionare ability*, and you are *passively immune to being recruited by the mafia*.

Each night, you may choose to *heal somebody*. In addition, *if you are killed at any time, then you can choose to write a last will that will be posted in-thread during the next day phase*.

You win when all members of the mafia are dead.

_(if you have any questions, please contact me!)_​





Spoiler: Vipera Magnifica



Hello *Vipera Magnifica*, and welcome to *Out of Context TVTropes Mafia Quotes Mafia*! Your role is:​


Seshas said:


> If the point of the sacrifice is to raise their soul up to the sky as an offering to the gods
> 
> then we can just tie Mist to a baloon


You are determined to tie peoples' souls to balloons as an offering to the gods. However, that's kind of hard to do if people aren't dead. The gods here don't necessarily approve of outright murder, so you can't be a serial killer or anything. Instead, the best you can do is to choose someone to try and get yeeted each day, and each successful choice and yeet gets you some points with the gods.

Every night, you can choose a prediction for a specific person to get yeeted during the next day phase. If that person is then yeeted, then that counts as a correct prediction. By getting two correct predictions, your win condition will then be fulfilled. Whether or not you survive to the end of the game, if your win condition is fulfilled, then you will win along with the winning players.

Because this is a quest from the gods, the gods are willing to help you out a bit. The first time that you make a prediction and that person dies the same night, that person will automatically be revived right before the day phase begins. The gods don't want to help you out too much, though, so they'll only do it once.

The gods also refuse to let you go to a different alignment, so you're essentially cursed to be immune to any alignment changes.
❝ --- ❞
In summary, you are a *Self-aligned Warlock* with a *1-shot Targeted Reviver ability*, and you are *passively immune to alignment changes*.
Each night, you may *make a prediction of who will be yeeted the next day*, and the first time that the person you targeted is killed, *they will automatically be revived.*
You win when you have made two correct guesses on who will be yeeted during the next day phase.
_(if you have any questions, please contact me!)_​



*Retrospective:*​why did I do this lol

Good game everyone!!

I especially have to give props to the mafia for making it to D5 with 2 redchecks on them and getting one of their own yeeted D1. For those not-mafia aligned, Keldeo was originally not allowed to perform the nightkill (unless he was the only one left) to try and balance things a bit, but I changed that on the day Butterfree was yeeted, since it was just adding artifical difficulty for poor koko and Keldeo lol.

The game was incredibly entertaining to watch, and I hope everyone had fun! I wanted to play with some less-used roles (Cannoneer, Fruit Vendor, Sensei, Warlock), since I thought they would add some "fun" to things. I debated to myself a lot during N0 about how to handle bus driving an inspection role, and that ultimately gave kyeugh the free redcheck on kokorico that night.

I have to give some props to RNP for calling my bluff about the passives just because I forgot to write his in. It was super entertaining to see everyone freaking out about the passives, though. Admittently, I wasn't lying about getting distracted and sending it off unfinished, though, but the fact that I did forget it was a good enough hint that they were all fake.

Also credit to Jack for coming up with the "Goose egg -> Egg as food" wikipedia page.

I don't know what else to put here so if you have questions about why, just ask.

(also @ everyone doubting that I would put 2 doctors in this: lmao)


----------



## Keldeo

Wahoo! Good game town - I believe almost every yeet or kill power ended up being aimed at non-town, that’s something. 

Thanks and apologies to my mafia teammates, you  deserved better ;; And of course thanks Mawile for hosting!


----------



## JackPK

thank you Mawile for hosting! and woohoo, _finally_ a town win!


----------



## Mawile

OH YEAH NIGHT ACTIONS:

*Night 0 Actions:*
Trebek swaps tbh^2 and kokorico
kokorico roleblocks RedneckPhoenix's main ability (does nothing, he used a 1-shot)
JackPK heals Seshas
Mafia stored their nightkill (+1)
Despicable Meme does nothing
RedneckPhoenix hypnotizes Despicable Meme into revealing their alignment
Butterfree quote cops RedneckPhoenix
kyeugh inspects tbh^2 (-> kokorico, gets koko's result)
Seshas gives a sandwich to Mist1422
storm tracks Despicable Meme (no action)
Mist1422 does nothing
Vipera Magnifica  predicts Despicable Meme to be yeeted 
Hydreigon25 sends a message to Mist1422: "Hi! as being this anonymous person i might be able to provide helpful info, however i would need to get to know you"
tbh^2 asks me "how many outgroup mafia-aligned slots are there?" (Answer: the Wikipedia article for the base page)

*Night 0 Results:*
Mafia gains +1 stored nightkill
Despicable Meme is required to post that they are town-aligned
Butterfree finds out that RedneckPhoenix's quote is the following:


mewtini said:


> my 'best friend' is an abomination of nature who is emblematic of the demented hell-religion i worship


kyeugh finds out that kokorico is mafia
storm sees that Despicable Meme didn't target anybody
Mistyx recieves a 6-inch Sweet Onion Chicken Teriyaki sandwich on 9-Grain Wheat and an anonymous message (from Hydreigon). Mist chose to eat the sandwich, and learned that it was tasty
Vipera Magnifica does not get a point during D1
tbh^2 recieves the following article: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Base_page

*Night 1 Actions:*
Trebek swaps tbh^2 and Hydreigon25
kokorico roleblocks kyeugh's main ability
JackPK heals tbh^2 (-> Hydreigon25)
Mafia (Butterfree) nightkills tbh^2 (-> Hydreigon25, but JackPK ended up healing Hydreigon25) and Trebek. Only Trebek dies
tbh^2 automatically 1-shot protects against Despicable Meme's vig kill
Despicable Meme vig kills Hydreigon25 (-> tbh^2, but tbh^2 is protected by their 1-shot bulletproof vest)
kyeugh inspects JackPK (but is roleblocked)
RedneckPhoenix does nothing
storm tracks Hydreigon25 (-> tbh^2, doesn't see anything)
Vipera Magnifica predicts Vipera Magnifica to be yeeted
Mist1422 1-shot recharges RedneckPhoenix's 1-shot ability (+1 use)
Hydreigon25 sends a message to Keldeo: "was Seshas was a good friend, so much so that you had an alliance?"
tbh^2  "how many distinct third-party wincons are there in the game?" (Answer: the Wikipedia article for the unary numeral system)

*Night 1 Results:*
Mafia kills Trebek
tbh^2's bulletproof vest (snowboard) is popped
storm sees that tbh^2 didn't target anybody
Vipera Magnifica asks me if he can predict himself to be yeeted, and if he can still perform predictions after dying (the answer to both is yes)
Vipera Magnifica gets a point during D2 (1 point total)
RedneckPhoenix gains a charge of his 1-shot Hypnotist ability
Keldeo recieves an anonymous message (from Hydreigon)
tbh^2 recieves the following article: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unary_numeral_system

*Night 2 Actions:*
kokorico redirects Despicable Meme onto JackPK
JackPK heals kyeugh
Despicable Meme kills Hydreigon25 (-> JackPK)
Mafia (Butterfree) nightkills Despicable Meme
RedneckPhoenix tries to hypnotize JackPK (but fails, because it's hard to hypnotize a dead person)
kyeugh inspects Butterfree
storm tracks Keldeo
Mist1422 copies kyeugh's action also onto Butterfree (therefore inspecting her)
Vipera Magnifica predicts kokorico to get yeeted into the Hell Pit
Hydreigon25 modposts "Hydra is likely aligned with town"
tbh^2 asks "how many roles are there in this game that may result in inaccurate cop results, (e.g. framers/godfathers/non-regular sanity cop)?"

*Night 2 Results:*
Despicable Meme kills JackPK
Mafia kills Despicable Meme
RedneckPhoenix keeps his charge, since you can't hypnotize a dead person
kyeugh finds out that Butterfree is mafia
storm sees that Keldeo didn't target anybody
Mistyx also finds out that Butterfree is mafia
Vipera Magnifica does not get a point during D3 (1 point total)
Hydreigon25 nails a sign into the ground for me to add to the flavor text
tbh^2 recieves the following article: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zero-dimensional_space

*Night 3 Actions:*
kokorico roleblocks kyeugh
Mafia (Keldeo) nightkills tbh^2
RedneckPhoenix hypnotizes Hydreigon25
kyeugh doesn't perform an action anyway, so she roleblocks herself by accident
storm tracks Keldeo
Mist1422 copies tbh^2's action onto herself
Vipera Magnifica predicts kokorico to get yeeted into the Hell Pit, again
Hydreigon25 sends a message to tbh^2: "What are your thoughts about the recent events, & 2 people claiming doctor ?"
tbh^2 asks "how many roles are there in this game that may result in inaccurate witness / inspection results, (e.g. framers/godfathers/non-regular sanity investigative roles)?"

*Night 3 Results:*
Mafia kills tbh^2 (Note: Keldeo is now allowed to perform nightkills for the sake of balance)
Hydreigon25 is required to post that they are town-aligned
storm sees that Keldeo targeted tbh^2
Vipera Magnifica gets a point during D4 (2 points total, win condition fulfilled)
tbh^2 recieves an anonymous message (from Hydreigon)
tbh^2 recieves the following article: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Goose_egg
Mistyx also recieves the following article: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Goose_egg

*Night 4 Actions:*
Mafia (Keldeo) nightkills kyeugh
kyeugh inspects IndigoEmmy
storm tracks kyeugh
Mist1422 copies kyeugh's action on IndigoEmmy
Vipera Magnifica predicts Keldeo to get yeeted into the Hell Pit

*Night 4 Results:*
Mafia kills kyeugh
kyeugh finds out that IndigoEmmy is not mafia
Mistyx also finds out that IndigoEmmy is not mafia
storm sees that kyeugh targeted IndigoEmmy
Vipera Magnifica gets a point during D5 (3 points total, win condition fulfilled)


----------



## kyeugh

Mawile said:


> *Night 3 Actions:*
> kokorico roleblocks kyeugh


oh thank fucking god


----------



## Mawile

Mawile said:


> Vipera Magnifica gets a point during D5 (3 points total, win condition fulfilled)


kind of. w/e he got his win condition anyway


----------



## Novae

kyeugh and I same brained so hard with those actions lol


----------



## Trebek

the amount of (->) in the first two nights

yay for helping skylar find koko, but also >.< for tbh's snowboard


----------



## Mawile

Mawile said:


> Mawile said:
> 
> 
> 
> Vipera Magnifica gets a point during D5 (3 points total, win condition fulfilled)
> 
> 
> 
> kind of. w/e he got his win condition anyway
Click to expand...

also i wrote this up before Keldeo exploded me. i also wrote the A New Day epilogue before Keldeo exploded me and forgot to change the balloons in the end


----------



## Hydreigon25

I had fun sorry about the Beef between me and RNP causing me to Rage on Day 4


----------



## Novae

Emmy not submitting was bruh

Hydre getting modkilled was ???

other than that the townplay was pretty top tier


----------



## storm

idk if it's just that there's so much less pressure as town but this game was so fun! I feel I more hit my stride than in tarot where I was just. Stress

sorry for town that I had so many headaches, it's a shame the game coincided with a really unfortunately frequent period of them (including today... f) 

thank you mawile for a really great game!


----------



## Hydreigon25

Mistyx said:


> hmm that actually brings something up
> 
> I received a weird anonymous message n0 that still no one has claimed
> 
> was it just hydre's main and the public announcement was their 1-shot?


Props to you for figuring that out @Mistyx


----------



## RedneckPhoenix

hydre that was entirely your own fault it was no goddamn beef

i've half a mind to report you for breaking the rules so many god damn times even past getting modkilled

get it together


----------



## Ys_

I enjoyed the role flavours and just watching the game in general from graveyard. Mawile you're a great host and if you ever host again I'll join for sure :D I also really enjoyed watching VM get himself yeeted heh got everyone freaking out. gj town and bad luck maf :c but yay great game


----------



## RedneckPhoenix

in other news, i helped lead the town to their first victory in fucking ages, fuck you stryke i told you


----------



## Zori

uh
my 0% win rate is preserved?


----------



## Zori

I still think this game would have gone down a lot better if kyeugh did not in fact get a N0 red on koko


----------



## kyeugh

too bad i'm SUPER good at getting red checks on SCUM totally on PURPOSE!


----------



## Trebek

kyeugh said:


> too bad i'm SUPER good at getting red checks on SCUM totally on PURPOSE!


it was on purpose! if you never made that quote then no one would have been a bus driver


----------



## Despicable Meme

Despicable Meme said:


> glaring flaws aside, this has been an awesome game! like TV Tropes before, I stopped paying attention along the way (although this time I had a totally good reason, right,), but at least, I wasn't alone! and speaking of not being alone, I'll definitely look forward to hydraing with my amazing bro again
> 
> props to everyone who made this first town win happen! sure, the preposterous success rate of the night actions can't be denied to have mattered for it, but both sides of the coin still played quite well for the hands they were dealt, so it'd likely have come down to the swing nonetheless. I'll take it over the games when the swing was going either way but the mafia was staying well ahead-
> 
> and thanks for GMing, Mawile! this has been a super interesting setup, and what can I say, the flavor was rich


I accidentally made this endpost on the deadchat but here it also is in full mainchat glory


----------



## Despicable Meme

hi! herbe here!!!! i had a wonderful time this game (trying to telepathically figure out w mewtini what our roles our in-thread was fun) and my lovely elder sister was a great mafia partner!!!!!!!! also CLOWN TERRORISM MADE A COMEBACK!!!!!! WOOOOOOOOO!!!!!! My clowny soul can finally rest knowing my dreams came to life.
Love yall! On mobile in a hotel room rn so pardon the formating ehehe


----------



## RedneckPhoenix

Hydreigon25 said:


> * a portal opens & a ghostly version of hydreigon appears *
> 
> _check RNP tonight _
> 
> * a ghostly version of hydreigon then disappears *


and like this is such a weird thing to break the rules to say

to put suspicion on a town that's all but confirmed


----------



## mewtini

is everyone going to get access to graveyard?! :D


Despicable Meme said:


> trying to telepathically figure out w mewtini what our roles our in-thread was fun


hahahahahaha. god yes.

postmortem maybe coming tomorrow or, uh, at some point. but YAY TOWN, so fucking stoked that we finally pulled out a win :DDD biggest props to my better half; rari was a goddamn legend as per always, keeping me sane and delivering based takes left and right. and props to literally everyone else - gg mafia, you guys really got stuck between a rock and a hard place from d1 and i salute y'all for keeping on. and congrats to my <3 fellow townies <3 for some seriously stellar teamwork tbh!

i nearly signed this with "-m" and that tells you all you need to know about how weird it is to be operating out of my own account!


----------



## mewtini

mewtini said:


> as per always


you ever type 'as always' and then decide to go with 'as per usual' but then blackout while hitting post reply


----------



## Mawile

mewtini said:


> is everyone going to get access to graveyard?! :D


OH YEAH i forgot lmao


----------



## mewtini

i know that i'm technically already in but can you add me too tbh.


----------



## qenya

Seshas said:


> I still think this game would have gone down a lot better if kyeugh did not in fact get a N0 red on koko


well tbf it was super fun constantly finding new ways to wriggle out of it

my personal favourite was making out that raritini's oracle question about sanities must be wrong because they said "cop"

thank you so much for hosting mawile! great game <3


----------



## Hydreigon25

RedneckPhoenix said:


> Hydreigon25 said:
> 
> 
> 
> * a portal opens & a ghostly version of hydreigon appears *
> 
> _check RNP tonight _
> 
> * a ghostly version of hydreigon then disappears *
> 
> 
> 
> and like this is such a weird thing to break the rules to say
> 
> to put suspicion on a town that's all but confirmed
Click to expand...

i was spectating, & it was just to add some flavor to the game hence the ghostly version of me [ since a ghost is a spirit of a dead person ]


----------



## Hydreigon25

for everyone else that is unable to read the above post ( do to having different forum styles )



RedneckPhoenix said:


> Hydreigon25 said:
> 
> 
> 
> * a portal opens & a ghostly version of hydreigon appears *
> 
> _check RNP tonight _
> 
> * a ghostly version of hydreigon then disappears *
> 
> 
> 
> and like this is such a weird thing to break the rules to say
> 
> to put suspicion on a town that's all but confirmed
Click to expand...

i was spectating, & it was just to add some flavor to the game hence the ghostly version of me [ since a ghost is a spirit of a dead person ]


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## storm

I don't think spectators can post at all though! ysabel was only commenting in the dead chat and reacting to nonspoilery posts?

I really don't see why you keep refusing to follow the rules when they've been laid out several times!


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## Vipera Magnifica

Great game, everyone!

Plotting to get myself yeeted was incredibly fun, and thanks to town's redchecks, getting the other point for my win condition was all but guaranteed. It's certainly given me some _ideas_ if I ever rand alien in the future.

Mawile, thanks for hosting this game! The roles were deliciously well-crafted and the flavor text was an enjoyable read. Congrats to town for their first post-revival victory!


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## Ys_

For the future Hydre if you want to add flavor to the game you could ask the gm to add it to the start of day or end of day post!

And yeah, like Storm said, me and other spectators/dead players were only watching and reacting to posts unrelated to the game itself. Except Jack because he had specific permission to post a last will and even that was done through Mawile


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## Hydreigon25

Ysabel said:


> For the future Hydre if you want to add flavor to the game you could ask the gm to add it to the start of day or end of day post!
> 
> And yeah, like Storm said, me and other spectators/dead players were only watching and reacting to posts unrelated to the game itself. Except Jack because he had specific permission to post a last will and even that was done through Mawile


i was asking if it could be flavor close to the EoD flavor post though, i didn't mean to confuse mawile


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## RedneckPhoenix

you put fuckin mechanical opinions in your """flavor"""


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## Butterfree

Hydrei, I know you meant no harm and I’m sorry people are giving you a hard time about it (please be nice, RNP). But please, if you’re going to take part in a game like mafia, you need to read and understand the rules of the game. The only people who may post game-relevant content in a mafia thread are the GM and living players - it’s not just a regular thread where you can post whatever you think might be fun. If you’re in any doubt about whether something is allowed, you need to ask the GM first and make sure they say it’s okay before you do the thing - and if you’re reprimanded for breaking the rules, please just apologize and make sure you understand what you did wrong and know not to do that again in the future (if you’re confused about what you did wrong, ask the GM to explain) - don’t argue with it or get mad about it. I know it’s easy to get defensive if people are mad at you, but it makes the game less fun for everyone else if someone’s breaking the rules, and that’s not fair! I’m sure you’ll get the hang of the rules if you try and we can all have fun playing together.


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