# UK General Elections 2010



## Shiny Grimer

General elections for the UK will be held on May 6. I'm trying to keep up with this election since I've never followed any non-US election. The three main parties everyone seems to be talking about don't seem particularly attractive to me. The only opinion I have so far is that I despise the BNP.

I've heard a lot about this David Cameron guy since before this election was announced (though I can't recall if it was positive or negative). I did hear about the marriage tax and "we want to be the most family-friendly country in Europe", which sounds a little silly and old-fashioned to me (the benefits extend to civil partnerships, though, so at least that's good). Other than that, I must admit that I am ignorant of everything else. I took the Telegraph's "How should I vote" quiz and apparently I should vote for the Liberal Democrats, though were a whole lot of issues that I had no opinion on (Should we reduce the number of MPs by 10%? I don't know!) and I picked "England" as my region for the hell of it.

Also, this made me lol:


			
				sceptic3 said:
			
		

> There is an unspoken commitment within the big three to a federal Europe and a more powerful UN and the new world order.


_new world order oh my gosh put on your tinfoil hats the eu is just another attempt to turn us into slaves._ It sounds just like "NAFTA is just an attempt to get rid of our freedom!!1!".

So, what do you fellows think?


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## Minish

Mm... I can't vote yet, but I'd go for the Lib Dems if I could.

Conservatives suck, but will no doubt get in because most people think they're the only alternative to Labour and everyone hates Labour at the moment.

I think the majority of the country think the BNP are the scum of the earth, so yeah, I wouldn't worry about that.


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## Teh Ebil Snorlax

Cirrus said:


> Conservatives suck, but will no doubt get in because most people think they're the only alternative to the Tories


Conservatives = Tories. That is all.


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## Vladimir Putin's LJ

The Tories are going to win (even though Cameron seems slightly retarded whenever I read/watch an interview with him, he's still more popular than Gordo and no one knows the Lib Dems), which I will frown about. Labour will get re-elected after 4-8 years of Conservative reign, rinse and repeat.
The BNP don't stand a chance so no one cares.

I bet Cameron is sad now his bigot Polish bff Kaczynski is dead :c sorry Dave, you'll have to ally yourself with another homophobic, far-right religious nutcase.


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## Jolty

I'll be voting Lib Dems

Even though the Tories will undoubtedly win :| When everyone gets sick of one of the big two, they all go off to vote for the other one hrrrrg



> I bet Cameron is sad now his bigot Polish bff Kaczynski is dead :c sorry Dave, you'll have to ally yourself with another homophobic, far-right religious nutcase.


also I lol'd


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## Tailsy

Um, why aren't Wales and Northern Ireland in the tags? They get to vote too! 
Also those tags are shit I'm going to fix them after this post.

If the Tories won, then Scotland's probably offski (to go and be shit WITHOUT YOU GUYS). I don't mind that result.

I want Labour or the Lib Dems to win - unfortunately everyone is a bit dim and this won't happen.

And uh, 'nobody knows the Lib Dems'? _Everyone_ knows the Lib Dems, they're the third-biggest party wtf. Comedy panel shows shouldn't twist your opinion on that. In fact, their political broadcast was the first one I saw (education seems to be their focus which is kind of hilarious).


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## Dannichu

Whoo, I was hoping someone would make this thread!

So I'll probably be voting Lib Dem - I'm so excited about it; I've never voted before!

The LD's are actually likely to win in my area (our current MP's a LD), though there are Conservative posters and signs up all over the place - my dad told my sister and I to tear up any Tory signs we came across on our travels and he'd pay bail if we got arrested for damaging property.

The Conservatives are confusing me so much this election. I mean, it's quite good that the Conservative party is becoming way more middle-y rather than far-right (though I suppose the BNP stretches the UK far-right out pretty _far_ to the right... but nobody takes them seriously, so it's not too bad), but I really don't know what to think about them. I mean, they keep hammering home that they're going to protect the NHS no matter what, but if any of the three parties anyone really pays attention to were to do anything bad to the NHS, it'd surely be the Tories, right?

And that debate the other week about that gay couple being turned away from the B&B - it's not so much the discrimination I cared about, it was learning that Cameron et all were _going after the gay vote_! What madness is this? The sun rises in the east, up is the opposite of down and the Tories hate gays! My world is actually falling apart D:

In seriousness, that actually made me lose a little respect for the Tories. I mean, I dislike them and pretty much everything they stood for, but at least they _stood_ for something. Now they (and by 'they' I mean 'Cameron' - nobody else in the Conservative party seems to ever say anything) just seem to say whatever it'll take to win the election, which leaves me very suspicious of what the hell they'll do if (when) they're elected, because they don't seem to believe in anything they're saying anymore.

As a side note, I wish so, so much we had proportional representation in the UK. The system we have of voting is not only unfair (call me old-fashioned, but I think the party that _gets the most votes_ should win), it's ridiculous. Nearly everyone I know votes tactically - I wish I could vote for the Green Party, but it will definitely be a vote wasted if I do, and while I wouldn't mind doing that just to make a point, I'd rather use it to prevent the Tories getting another piece of the UK. D:


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## Tailsy

Dannichu said:


> As a side note, I wish so, so much we had proportional representation in the UK. The system we have of voting is not only unfair (call me old-fashioned, but I think the party that _gets the most votes_ should win), it's ridiculous. Nearly everyone I know votes tactically - I wish I could vote for the Green Party, but it will definitely be a vote wasted if I do, and while I wouldn't mind doing that just to make a point, I'd rather use it to prevent the Tories getting another piece of the UK. D:


Well, _you_ don't...


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## Minish

Teh Ebil Snorlax said:


> Conservatives = Tories. That is all.


wtf me
I know, I just meant to include Labour again in that sentence. What I meant to say is that the Tories will get in because people think they're the only alternative to Labour. @_@

Also, apparently my mum got really offended when I told her 'plz vote Lib Dems k :D' and is now probably going to vote Tories just to spite me. After saying that she would 'look at each of the parties and decide for herself!' like voting is actually a big deal for her. ;-;


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## Dannichu

Haha, I've got a story that's nearly the exact opposite - my sister (who's too young to vote, but 17 and old enough to make up her mind and can I just say here that having a voting age of 18 is stupid?) keeps getting election leflets and such through the post, and she was sitting at the table reading them, when our parents come in and find her reading a Conservatives leaflet. The way they reacted, you'd think they'd found her reading porn. "What is this filth? I won't stand for it in my house!" It was hilarious.

Sorry Tailsy D:


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## Blastoise Fortooate

Obama will win.

That is all.


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## Tailsy

Blastoise said:


> Obama will win.
> 
> That is all.


Oh lord, the _wit_!


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## Vladimir Putin's LJ

Jessie said:


> And uh, 'nobody knows the Lib Dems'? _Everyone_ knows the Lib Dems, they're the third-biggest party wtf. Comedy panel shows shouldn't twist your opinion on that. In fact, their political broadcast was the first one I saw (education seems to be their focus which is kind of hilarious).


I know that! What I mean is the Lib Dems have never been in power so people don't feel they _know_ them and the Liberals were last seen in the Prime Ministerial post with Lloyd George in 1922 so they're not really remembered at all.

I'm not completely retarded :0


> As a side note, I wish so, so much we had proportional representation in the UK. The system we have of voting is not only unfair (call me old-fashioned, but I think the party that gets the most votes should win), it's ridiculous. Nearly everyone I know votes tactically - I wish I could vote for the Green Party, but it will definitely be a vote wasted if I do, and while I wouldn't mind doing that just to make a point, I'd rather use it to prevent the Tories getting another piece of the UK. D:


This is pretty much the situation we have in Portugal as well :v the last election was pretty tight between the PSD and the Socialists, so the Socialists put out a message saying 'HEY LISTEN we know you like other, superior parties more (ie the Left Block) but you should vote for us or the PSD will get in instead of us! it's better to have a mediocre centrist party than a centre-right one, right.'
And it worked, unsurprisingly. My whole family stubbornly voted for the Left Block anyway but oh well.


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## Flazeah

I'll be voting either Labour or Lib Dem. Unfortunately the Tories are quite popular around here, so I suppose I should vote whichever one out of Labour and Lib Dem is more likely to get more votes here. The local Labour guy is pretty cool, though.


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## Harlequin

*NOBODY VOTE LABOUR OR CONSERVATIVE PLZ. IT IS IMPORTANT THAT EVERYONE WHO CAN VOTE VOTES LIBERAL DEMOCRAT.

*No, seriously: the Liberal Democrats are the only viable alternatives to New Labour and the Conservatives. Under New Labour we've been incrementally stripped of various rights and the Conservatives? The Conservatives will only make things _worse_. 

If the Liberal Democrats get in (or at least if it swings the vote enough for a Labour/Liberal Democrat alliance) we will finally see some degree of electoral reform, better policies for LGBT citizens and general awesomeness.

Because, yeah.

*UP WITH THE LIBERAL DEMOCRATS*


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## Minish

Yaaay I agree! Lib Deeeems. :D

And Danni, I'm in the same situation -- I'm 17 but I'm actually interested in voting and can make up my own mind. :/


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## Ruby

I'd be voting Labour if I were a month older.  The Lib Dems run my local council and they are shit.


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## Effigy of the Forgotten

I'll be voting Lib Dem, not that it'll make a jot of difference, I live in one of the most Conservative supporting areas of the country. Worth a go though eh ;)


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## Tarvos

so can we turn this into dutch elections which are in june cos I get to vote in those not shitty UK elections


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## Lady Grimdour

Lib Dem.

Mostly because I smell a failed plan from the Tories and Labour!Wales isn't doing well.


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## departuresong

Watershed said:


> so can we turn this into dutch elections which are in june cos I get to vote in those not shitty UK elections


UK is a little more important on a global scale at the moment


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## Tarvos

i'm not so sure england is the centre of the world even though our timeline is based on a city called greenwich which is basically a mouldy sandwich

although there are indeed more people in england


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## Minish

My mum said she'll vote Lib Dems for me, resuuuult :D


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## goldenquagsire

Watershed said:


> i'm not so sure england is the centre of the world even though our timeline is based on *a city called greenwich which is basically a mouldy sandwich*
> 
> although there are indeed more people in england


as much as I hate to admit it, we probably aren't all that important any more. culturally we're still pretty significant but otherwise the only kudos we get is by association with America. :(

also the boldtext is the most confusing analogy I've ever read.

oh and kiddies: please do vote Lib Dem because *there are more of you than you'd think*. also do it for me because I can't vote. ;_;


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## Harlequin

Watershed said:


> i'm not so sure england is the centre of the world even though our timeline is based on a city called greenwich which is basically a mouldy sandwich
> 
> although there are indeed more people in england


pst wales, scotland and northern ireland


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## Dannichu

Watershed said:


> our timeline is based on a city called greenwich which is basically a mouldy sandwich


This is less funny when you take into account it's pronounced "grennich".

Which is, funnily, not the most weirdly-pronounced place in London. I'm looking at _you_ Southwark.

Also - my polling card arrived yesterday! It's very exciting. I'm getting a lift with my neighbours to the polling station because I don't want to do it by myself - this sounds stupid, but I have a habit of screwing up every form I ever fill in. Block capitals, tick only one box... I've even been known to spell my name wrongly >>


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## goldenquagsire

> This is less funny when you take into account it's pronounced "grennich".


...oh, now I get the joke. :|



> Which is, funnily, not the most weirdly-pronounced place in London. I'm looking at _you _Southwark.


South + Wark = Suvvuk

Ingenious!


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## Harlequin

hay gays http://www.activehistory.co.uk/Miscellaneous/free_stuff/vote_2010/frameset.htm

do plz


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## Tailsy

... I was just trying to guess which one was which lmao


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## Harlequin

o u.

ALSO:

Liberal Democrat Manifesto -- At A Glance from the BBC.
Conservative Manifesto -- At A Glance from the BBC.
Labour Manifesto -- At A Glance from the BBC.

EDUCATE YOURSELVES if you haven't already.

also vote liberal democrat.


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## Vladimir Putin's LJ

Hey Watershed who you gonna vote for? I can't vote yet, but my stepdad's gonna go with the PvdA this year (and my dad doesn't vote). This is a pretty good thing since he was considering voting for the PVV :v



Harlequin said:


> hay gays http://www.activehistory.co.uk/Miscellaneous/free_stuff/vote_2010/frameset.htm
> 
> do plz


According to this I am 60% Labour and 40% Lib Dem. Woe.


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## Harlequin

Woe is you. :( I'm 70% LD, 20% L, 10% C


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## Teh Ebil Snorlax

56% Labour, 32% Liberal Democrat and 12% Conservative, which I'm not overly surprised by. I have to follow the elections for my history homework, so I'm just gonna track this thread and watch the news.


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## goldenquagsire

Harlequin said:


> hay gays http://www.activehistory.co.uk/Miscellaneous/free_stuff/vote_2010/frameset.htm
> 
> do plz


52% lib dem, 30% labour, 18% conservative. hrm. I used to be rather pro-labour, but it seems that on closer inspection their policies are shit. they're too focused on gimmicks and huge new projects, when what we really need is to improve the damn systems that we already have.


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## Ruby

The Liberals would be slimy as the others if they got into government, you know.  What is the point in voting for them?


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## Harlequin

What is the point of voting at all? 

The Liberal Democrats have always stood on a policy of honesty and fairness, and if they managed to get into power on such a platform it would be suicide to do an about-face and say 'sorry, we're actually cunts', because no one would vote for them again. The Liberal Democrat manifesto is simply _better_ than the other parties', and that's why you should vote for them.


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## Ruby

(My main reason for voting would be to keep the Tories out.)

Labour said "sorry, we're actually cunts" in about 2003, and are still in power now.  All governments do an about-face like that.  It's not suicide.  It's expected.  The point is that except where Liberal and Tory are the only real choices, a vote for the Liberals is a lost vote, but voting Labour actually does something.


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## Harlequin

This is false. If everyone "wasted" their vote on the Liberal Democrats there would be real results. It's pessimistic thinking that's holding people back.

Labour is a better result than the Conservatives, I'll grant you that, but the Liberal Democrats are a better result than either, and unless people vote for them it's never going to happen.


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## Ruby

So why don't you vote Green?


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## Jolty

/late

10% Conservative
33% Labour
57% Liberal Democrat


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## departuresong

15% Conservative
48% Labour
37% Liberal Democrat


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## Ruby

Finally a Labour voter.  ...Oh no, he lives in the US.


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## goldenquagsire

Ruby said:


> So why don't you vote Green?


Because lol single-issue parties?


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## Ruby

I don't agree that the Greens are a single-issue party, but at any rate they were only an example.  There are dozens of parties with "simply _better_" manifestoes than the Liberal Democrats, and I can not understand why Harle would not rather vote for one of them.


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## goldenquagsire

Ruby said:


> I don't agree that the Greens are a single-issue party, but at any rate, they are only an example.  There are dozens of parties with "simply _better_" manifestoes than the Liberal Democrats, and I can not understand why Harle would not rather vote for one of them.


because perhaps he simply _agrees with their manifesto_?


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## Zuu

20% Conservative
53% Labour
28% Liberal Democrat


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## Ruby

goldenquagsire said:


> because perhaps he simply _agrees with their manifesto_?


Really?  More than with _any_ other manifesto? I have never known someone to be politically closer to a mainstream party than to one or other of the smaller parties. Everyone I have ever met votes for the mainstream parties only as a kind of compromise.  If Harle is going to vote regardless of a party's chances of winning, he might as well vote for one he wholeheartedly agrees with, whether it is the Greens, the Socialists or the BNP.  

But perhaps he really does wholeheartedly agree with the Liberals!  Perhaps they are his perfect party. It feels foreign to me, but suppose they are.  Even then, what type of person votes for a party "regardless of its chances of winning"?


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## Harlequin

Peeve: They're not the Liberals. The Liberals no longer exist as a party. The modern-day name is the Liberal Democrats.

I agree with their manifesto. Is that a crime? I support many of their policies. I disagree with most of the Conservatives' plans and also a great deal of Labour's (although I would rather another Labour government if it comes to that). I don't support this much of any other party's manifesto (although some of the smaller parties do have some attractive policies).

Another thing to consider is that the Liberal Democrats are the only non-Labour/Conservative party with any real chance at success, however slim that chance is. Regarding why I'd vote for them and not Labour as a compromise: I don't agree with Labour and I don't want to see another Labour government, and voting for Labour as a compromise between what I want and what I don't want goes against my beliefs.

(Oh, also, it's important to remember that Wales has its own Assembly: I can vote and ignore issues of health and education because the WAG handles those. So there's that, too.)


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## Dannichu

While I disagree that the greens are a single-issue party (they oppose student fees and support better, more efficient and cheaper national railway systems, strongly support nuclear disarmament, and their economic policies, if implimented, would be fantastic - and these are the issues in this election I care most about) and would absolutely love to vote for them, there's absolutely zero point.

If I were in Canterbury, I totally would - they're actually the second-most-voted-for party up there (after the Tories, who have won there in every election for the last 150+ years and I'm not exaggerating), but nobody down in Devon, particularly in my constituency, votes for Green, and the election's definitely going to be between the Tories and LibDems (with probably a few votes for UKIP but nothing for Labour, Green or anyone), and I don't want the Tories getting in.


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## Harlequin

I think the Greens are having a better time of it in Brighton, where they actually hope to elect a Green MP. 

Silly Greens!


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## Ruby

Harlequin said:


> Peeve: They're not the Liberals. The Liberals no longer exist as a party. The modern-day name is the Liberal Democrats.


The Tories no longer exist as a party.



> I agree with their manifesto. Is that a crime? I support many of their policies. I disagree with most of the Conservatives' plans and also a great deal of Labour's (although I would rather another Labour government if it comes to that). I don't support this much of any other party's manifesto (although some of the smaller parties do have some attractive policies).
> 
> Another thing to consider is that the Liberal Democrats are the only non-Labour/Conservative party with any real chance at success, however slim that chance is. Regarding why I'd vote for them and not Labour as a compromise: I don't agree with Labour and I don't want to see another Labour government, and voting for Labour as a compromise between what I want and what I don't want goes against my beliefs.
> 
> (Oh, also, it's important to remember that Wales has its own Assembly: I can vote and ignore issues of health and education because the WAG handles those. So there's that, too.)


Very well.  Looking back, I was being too argumentative yesterday.  Still I resent the Liberals for always splitting the anti-Tory vote, and for their failures in my borough.  There is a side of the party who are extremely economically conservative, who look up to Gladstone and not Lloyd George.


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## Dannichu

Anyone else watching the debate? I (and the rest of Twitter, apparently) am very impressed by Clegg.


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## Harlequin

Danni: yes, I'm watching it right now! Nick Clegg is really coming across very, very well! He's certainly better than Brown and he's owned Cameron a few times, too.

Let's hope this translates into poll points and votes!

EDIT: Does anyone else think that Cameron and Brown seem to be taking the opportunity to say "Labour/the Conservatives are worse than we are!!!" rather than telling people why we should vote for them? I really support what Nick Clegg said at the end, and it was much, much cleaner and less of an attack than Brown or Cameron's response.

Also: LOLOLOL MY CHILDREN GO TO STATE SCHOOL ... bully for you.


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## Jolty

Clegg is awesome and most impressive indeed (Y)

Lmao did anyone else see how many times Brown said "I agree with Nick"?


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## Dannichu

Best tweets of the night:



> David Cameron looks like Sam Beckett has just Quantum Leaped into his body and doesn't know where he is #leadersdebate
> 
> Cameron looks like a melting waxwork #leadersdebate
> 
> Cameron at the next debate? "Just the other day I was talking to a young Jewish boy in a television studio..." #LeadersDebate
> 
> The moderator of this debate so sadistic, they should make him the Pope #leadersdebate
> 
> I met a young lady the other day who said she was sick of being used in madeup anecdotes #LeadersDebate
> 
> The reason they put DC in the middle is Brown would be humping Clegg's leg otherwise #leadersdebate


Well, that was fun. Clegg's closing statement was absolutely terrible - "trust your instincts"?? - but I think he was excellent in the debate overall.


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## goldenquagsire

aw shit I was watching Outnumbered instead. I need to keep up with my politics. :(


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## Harlequin

Gordon Brown has a srs mancrush on Nick Clegg. I think the poll results thus far show that Nick Clegg won this debate, and hopefully this will remain true for the next two, and that should hopefully translate into votes for the Liberal Democrats.

11% swing against Labour plz!!


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## Minish

goldenquagsire said:


> aw shit I was watching Outnumbered instead. I need to keep up with my politics. :(


Arrrrrgh same. I haven't watched anything in over a month or something, I thought the debate was in April. Now I realise it _is_ April. This happens way too much to me. :(

Good to hear that Clegg did well, though, that's brilliant. My Facebook news feed is full of people saying they might vote Lib Dems now. :'D

EDIT: I wrote 'good to hear *the* Clegg' did well by mistake, and now I think it sounds like an awesome name for a superhero. Everyone should totally refer to him as this from now on.


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## Dannichu

I'm really pleased that Clegg's doing well - these debates are going to affect people who aren't sure who to vote for and/or those who might not want to vote; it could be wishful thinking, but the TV debates, I think, mean more people will take some kind of interest in the election (it takes actual effort to look up manifestos, but none to change channel and watch TV), and it could mean more people than usual actually vote, and more of them for the Lib Dems.

While I agree that the debates should definitely be about policy and discussion and actual politics than some kind of fashion show, I'd like to say that Cameron needs to stop wearing so much makeup. And airbrushing his publicity photos. It's very counterproductive and sends a terrible message to the voters.


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## Tailsy

"WAXY-FACED MEN WILL SAVE YOUR COUNTRY!"

Sounds like an awful Doctor Who episode.


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## Jolty

I was on itv.com while watching and some of the facebook status updates were amazing



> Gordon is flirting with Nick. Nick shows him the cold shoulder. David flirts with himself.


I lol'd so hard at this one


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## Dannichu

Oh, the flirting with Nick was painful. Almost as much as Cameron thanking everyone (at some length) who asked him a bloody question.

For anyone else up at half-two in the morning with nothing better to do: have an article by JKR that raises some excellent points.


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## Harlequin

I enjoyed reading that and she did make some very good points throughout. Hooray!


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## Minish

Dannichu said:


> For anyone else up at half-two in the morning with nothing better to do: have an article by JKR that raises some excellent points.


That'll be me then. Good article, I'll never stop loving how clear-minded JKR is.


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## Shiny Grimer

Dannichu said:
			
		

> have an article by JKR


I somehow read this as "JFK" and was rather disappointed that John F. Kennedy did not come back from the grave. :(

Is the debate recorded anywhere? I totally want to see it/_the Clegg_.


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## Jolty

... said:


> I somehow read this as "JFK" and was rather disappointed that John F. Kennedy did not come back from the grave. :(
> 
> Is the debate recorded anywhere? I totally want to see it/_the Clegg_.


you are now officially awesome in my book
(and I totally did that too lol)

and, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rk5HvJmy_yg !!


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## Vladimir Putin's LJ

Jolty said:


> and, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rk5HvJmy_yg !!


So glad this was posted ahaha ;_; ty jolty


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## Lorem Ipsum

*Prepares for the onslaught*

58% Conservative
24% LibDem
18% Labour


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## departuresong

Lorem Ipsum, you're the exact opposite of me. =P


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## Harlequin

*<3

Latest opinion polls show that the Liberal Democrats at 29%*.


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## goldenquagsire

Harlequin said:


> *<3
> 
> Latest opinion polls show that the Liberal Democrats at 29%*.


iknorite? most polls are saying that they've overtaken Labour, a few are even suggesting that they're doing better than the Conservatives.

let's just hope that this hype doesn't die down before the election~


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## Lorem Ipsum

I honestly don't get the hype for the LibDems. The only reason they have a resurgence at the moment is because of their policy on cleaning up Westminster, in the bigger picture. Some of their other policies are atrocious: scrapping Trident would be horrendous for the country; the Schools' Premium would mean that rural, well-kept schools would get more money than those in London suburbs; and the £10,000 income tax allowance would give a bigger boost to one on £50,000 than one on £15,000.


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## goldenquagsire

> Some of their other policies are atrocious: scrapping Trident would be horrendous for the country;


wait what

getting rid of a huge, unnecessary, money-sucking relic is a bad thing?


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## Harlequin

goldenquagsire said:


> wait what
> 
> getting rid of a huge, unnecessary, money-sucking relic is a bad thing?


OH NO WHAT IF CHINA ATTACKS US

OH NO WHAT IF IRAN ATTACKS US

OH NO NOW PEOPLE WON'T BE SCARED OF US

also I vaguely remember someone saying something about 'scrapping it until we have the money to pay for a better one'


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## Lorem Ipsum

Harlequin said:


> OH NO WHAT IF CHINA ATTACKS US
> 
> OH NO WHAT IF IRAN ATTACKS US
> 
> OH NO NOW PEOPLE WON'T BE SCARED OF US


OH NO WHAT IF NORTH KOREA ATTACKS US

OH NO WHAT IF WE LOSE OUR SECURITY COUNCIL SEAT

OH NO IT WOULD SPELL THE END OF A MAJOR ALLIANCE WITH THE US

OH NO IT WOULD MAKE BRITAIN JUST A SHITTY LITTLE ISLAND OFF THE WEST COAST OF FRANCE

Despite what you might personally think, most people would rather that Britain remained relatively prominent, instead of becoming insignificant.


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## Harlequin

So we would instantly cease to be a world leader in rights, healthcare, various kinds of culture, academics... just because we won't have costly nuclear weapons for a few years? The system isn't even designed to meet current threats anyway.


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## Saith

Shit, the elections are this year? For some reason I thought they were in 2012.
Shit, I can't vote.


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## Vladimir Putin's LJ

There is no chance of North Korea attacking anyone but South Korea with their shitty weaponry.



> OH NO IT WOULD MAKE BRITAIN JUST A SHITTY LITTLE ISLAND OFF THE WEST COAST OF FRANCE


I've got some bad news.


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## goldenquagsire

> OH NO WHAT IF WE LOSE OUR SECURITY COUNCIL SEAT


OH NO THAT'S A FATE WORSE THAN DEATH



> OH NO IT WOULD SPELL THE END OF A MAJOR ALLIANCE WITH THE US


this is a bad thing?



> Despite what you might personally think, most people would rather that Britain remained relatively prominent, instead of becoming insignificant.


harlequin pointed this out already, but there are *other* measures of prominence and success other than "WE HAVE BIG WEAPONS THAT WE CAN USE TO help defend america BEAT UP THE BAD GUYS WITH"


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## Ruby

Most of the common arguments for nuclear weapons are muddled.  Usually they imply that we _can_ disarm, but only when we know the world will always be safe.   Obviously we can never know that!  Disarm either today or not at all, but don't talk about "waiting for the right time" or "waiting for threats to pass".  There will always be threats.


----------



## Tailsy

Your bloody nuclear weapons make Scotland sad. :(

You don't want to make Scotland _sad_, do you? Otherwise we'll all vote SNP and Labour will be screwed for like, life.

(Not really, but seriously. Why _here_.)


----------



## Dannichu

Anyone watching the election on Sky? 

Nick Clegg is "not a man of faith" - did anyone else not know this?


----------



## Flazeah

I saw it, and was quite impressed by Gordon Brown. He seemed to be pretty concise in his final speech.


----------



## Ruby

Brown was much better this time, from what I saw.  Too bad this is the Sky debate, so that hardly anyone is watching it.


----------



## Harlequin

Dannichu said:


> Anyone watching the election on Sky?
> 
> Nick Clegg is "not a man of faith" - did anyone else not know this?


Nope! I knew he's an atheist! I read an interview a while back in which he said something along those lines, something like "I don't believe but I don't have problems with belief" or something, which is a politician's way of saying "don't not vote for me because I'm an atheist".


----------



## Tarvos

I thought you could already be an atheist openly in the UK? Damn, times are worse than I thought.


----------



## Harlequin

Watershed said:


> I thought you could already be an atheist openly in the UK? Damn, times are worse than I thought.


No, he's openly atheist. So is our foreign secretary, David Miliband, but I don't know of any others off the top of my head. It's just not very good political sense to say "I'M AN ATHEIST" when you're about to go up for election because lots of religious people would rather vote for someone religious. 

IDK he never actually said he believed in God.


----------



## Tarvos

time to vote Nick Clegg all you UKers


----------



## Dannichu

I don't think that people would be more likely to vote for a religious person, they'd just be far _less_ likely to vote for someone who said "hey y'all, your religion sucks".


----------



## Tarvos

What would you want with such skittish little twats anyway? Tsssssssssssssssssssssssssk.


----------



## Tarvos

Vladimir Putin's LJ said:


> Hey Watershed who you gonna vote for? I can't vote yet, but my stepdad's gonna go with the PvdA this year (and my dad doesn't vote). This is a pretty good thing since he was considering voting for the PVV :v
> 
> 
> According to this I am 60% Labour and 40% Lib Dem. Woe.


D66.


----------



## goldenquagsire

ttly relevant video gaiz



Harlequin said:


> No, he's openly atheist.


wait

not just "doesn't really give a shit"... but outright atheist? that is bloody awesome.



> I thought you could already be an atheist openly in the UK? Damn, times are worse than I thought.


in the real world you can be, but politicians don't seem to recognise that churchgoers (and to a lesser extent believers) are in an ever-increasing minority. in my school you're regarded as a bit of an anomaly if you go to church but as Harlequin pointed out, it's quite hard to name fullblooded (and successful) atheist politicians.


----------



## Vladimir Putin's LJ

Yeah, Clegg's a real atheist iirc. 

Sadly enough the only atheist politicians I can remember right now are Josef Stalin and every other Communist leader (not the best examples), Boris Yeltsin (a drunk and a disgrace), Pim Fortuyn (shot) and Job Cohen, who's the only one doing alright I suppose.


----------



## goldenquagsire

Vladimir Putin's LJ said:


> Yeah, Clegg's a real atheist iirc.
> 
> Sadly enough the only atheist politicians I can remember right now are Josef Stalin and every other Communist leader (not the best examples), Boris Yeltsin (a drunk and a disgrace), Pim Fortuyn (shot) and Job Cohen, who's the only one doing alright I suppose.


I heard rumours that Churchill was an atheist. It's probably bullshit but awesome if true!


----------



## Tarvos

Susan B. Anthony was an atheist, I believe. Not sure.


----------



## Minish

Clegg's an atheist, but his wife and children are Catholic (or at least, the children are being raised Catholic).
I imagine it would be rather hard to raise your children to believe in someone you don't believe in. Kind of like Santa, I guess. o_o

Oh yeah, in the past few days I've been watching old Mock the Week repeats, and I find it hilarious whenever there are jokes about Clegg. "Who is he?" "He's about as likely to get into power as..." And here we are, with him top of the polls. It's kind of surreal.


----------



## Dave Strider

Buh. Just had all three main party candidates in my constituency come in to our school and answer our questions, and then we had to vote for each of them in a mock election. 

Except they didn't really answer any questions. They just said stuff that wasn't really related to the questions and basically didn't give us any information. One of them actually said: 





			
				Lib Dem Bloke said:
			
		

> Go home and tell your parents to vote for us!


Needless to say, I didn't vote for any of them.


----------



## Harlequin

David Miliband, our current foreign secretary, is also an atheist! That's a prominent politician idk.

ALSO GUYS, GORDON BROWN CALLED ME A BIGOT :(


----------



## Dannichu

HARLE YOU ARE A BIGOTED WOMAN )<

(I've read a lot of stuff about this, but I can't find what they were actually talking about before he said it - was what she was saying actually bigoted and, if so, why all the hate? Far be it from me to defend Brown, but if the shoe fits...)



Cirrus said:


> Clegg's an atheist, but his wife and children are Catholic (or at least, the children are being raised Catholic).
> I imagine it would be rather hard to raise your children to believe in someone you don't believe in. Kind of like Santa, I guess. o_o


My sister and I were raised Catholic by my mum, and my dad's an athiest. He doesn't find it hard. He just sits there and says he's a Protestant from time to time, just to annoy my mum. And he says I don't eat pork because I'm Jewish.



> Oh yeah, in the past few days I've been watching old Mock the Week repeats, and I find it hilarious whenever there are jokes about Clegg. "Who is he?" "He's about as likely to get into power as..." And here we are, with him top of the polls. It's kind of surreal.


I had a giggle the other day at Russell Howard's Good News, which aired right after the first debate (in which Clegg won resoundingly) and he only mentioned Clegg because, as his show was on the BBC, he had to. I bet he felt silly about that :p

I'm annoyed that I missed my local TV debate, but the South West's concerns and, well, anything else, are pretty trivial (the other day, a homing pigeon that went off-course made headline news. I'm not joking.), so it's not a massive deal. I'm looking forward to the big BBC one on the economy, though :)


----------



## Vladimir Putin's LJ

Is Clegg really top of the polls? I'm a bit out of it since I've been in Malta for the past week, but last time I watched Sky News saw Cameron was still on top at about 36% and Clegg had 32% or so.


----------



## Harlequin

According to the BBC the Liberal Democrats are back under 30%, with Labour taking up the difference. :(

ALSO why does David Cameron keep saying he can cut the number of immigrants to the "tens of thousands" when 80% of those immigrants come from the EU, and would therefore be exempt from any 'cap' anyway?


----------



## Dannichu

That was the best debate yet, but all the talk (mostly from Cameron) of the "deserving" and "undeserving" poor made me feel ill. 

And most of the immigration talk was rubbish - I completely support Clegg's amnesty idea, and he didn't explain it anywhere near as well as he could have ):


----------



## Harlequin

I missed the Sky debate (*:(*) but I thought that this was very good. I thought some of the policies laid out by all of the parties were interesting, but my opinion hasn't changed: I am still planning to vote Liberal Democrat next week.


----------



## Ruby

Are you in a constituency where they can win?


----------



## Harlequin

Ruby said:


> Are you in a constituency where they can win?


No, but that doesn't change the fact that I don't believe in the policies of the other two main parties, and I am certainly not voting Plaid.


----------



## Ruby

Haha.  What's wrong with Plaid?


----------



## Harlequin

Ruby said:


> Haha.  What's wrong with Plaid?


Their focus is too much on Wales and Wales alone, and not enough on the country as a whole. And that's fair, and totally expected since Plaid Cymru means Wales Party, but I want something with a broader scope because I plan to study in England and will probably move there as an adult.

Also, my constituency is an incredibly safe Labour seat: in 1918 (when it was created) it was held by the Liberals. In 1922 it was won by Labour and it's been Labour ever since. At the last general election Labour won 60% of the vote, but the Liberal Democrats won 13.8%! (Taking second place, which I think demonstrates how safe a Labour seat this is.)


----------



## Dannichu

My heart is warmed by #iloveimmigrants becoming a trending topic on Twitter following the debate.

Where I live (I'm part of the Newton Abbot constituency in Devon), it's a contest between LibDem and Tories, but LibDem are slightly more likely to win. I'll be voting for them (twice, in fact, because I'm also doing a proxy vote for my mother). 

I could have chosen to vote in Canterbury, but it's much like the Labour situation where Harle lives; they've won every year for the last 160 years or something.

My cunning plan is to get the LibDems in, have them change the voting system to something less completely unfair than the current one, and then vote for the party I actually want to win in the _next_ general election. Sorted.


----------



## Harlequin

Depending on the situation in my constituency in Sheffield (optimism yay!), I'll vote based on whichever constituency my vote will be worth the most in. As it is the Aberavon constituency sucks because it is _dominated_ by Labour and has been since its creation. The next constituency over, Neath, is also _incredibly_ Labour and has been for roughly the same amount of time as Aberavon.

I'm getting sick of seeing PETER HAIN and VOTE LABOUR posters all over the place, to be honest. I go to college in Neath and seriously it's like every other house has a Labour poster, and I've seen _no_ Liberal Democrat or Conservative posters.


----------



## Jolty

My constituency is solidly Labour too (Doncaster Central) but I'm still voting Lib Dems
Aaaand my dad just told me Lib Dems are the second most popular round here so YEEEESSSSS we have a chance

we also have a candidate for Citizens for Undead Rights and Equality lmfao


----------



## Harlequin

IDK I mean, the Lib Dems are the second most popular party in Aberavon, and they get 13.8% of the vote, so er.


----------



## Dannichu

13.9 sounds about right for the second-most popular party in Canterbury, too - which is the Greens, yay!

There's about an even split of LibDem and Tory posters around where I live - I've seen a couple of UKIP ones, but not a single Labour (though we _have_ had Labour and Green leaflets through our door). And I imagine that anyone who put a BNP poster in their garden would get their house egged. Hopefully. :p


----------



## Tailsy

I've only seen VOTE BOB (who's our Conservative candidate and never stops bloody tweeting) boards.
I think somebody wrote 'the builder' underneath one.

Stirling was p. Tory after 1983 (when they fixed the boundaries) until we all went and voted Blair, so we're a target seat :( although I think it's Labour/SNP who might win here, seeing as we voted SNP in the Scottish Parliamentary elections... then again nobody fuckin' votes there. I don't think most people even know we have an SNP candidate (or a candidate who isn't Anne McGuire, the food expenses-claiming git).


----------



## Minish

I live in Lincolnshire, where the Tories are most popular. :( I don't know anything about the local politics but since I can't even vote I don't give much of a crap yet. Not to mention I'll be buggering off as far away as possible for uni.

_All_ I've seen are Tory posters. EVERYWHERE. I don't know why but I feel really annoyed whenever I see one, like the dumb "Vote *Conservative*" stands are physically blocking my way and need to be punched aside. >|

Oh yeah, somewhere between here and Hull when I went on a Geography trip lately, there was the rather amusing one Brown alluded to in one of the debates -- a huge Conservative "I cut pensions. Let me do it again!" or something poster with a big picture of Brown doing his adorable giggly face. Well that's great Cameron. But you should have had a picture of him looking miserable!

I watched the debate yesterday, or at least I watched most of it after I realised I was missing it. It made me cringe a lot because they kept talking over eachother and just generally being an embarrassment. But it was funny seeing those 'worm lines' after the election, apparently the people chosen press buttons for who they think are doing well as they speak. Every time Brown or Clegg said something good their line would increase accordingly, but every time Cameron did it would go down. Lullllz.


----------



## Dannichu

Urgh, those giant billboards with Brown's giggly face on saying "I [did something awful]. LET ME DO IT AGAIN" are pathetic. Hate-ads have no place in a proper election, and it's not as if those things are really Brown's fault - the recession would've still happened under a Tory (or any other party for that matter)'s government.


----------



## Tailsy

I just want to give Brown a big cuddle. :<


----------



## Lorem Ipsum

Ugh, the whole Liberal consensus here is incredibly overbearing. Why is nobody able to see that a vote for the LibDems isn't only a vote for completely ridiculous policy that, far from being fair, rewards the rich more than the poor, but also a vote for complete political ruin?


----------



## Not Meowth

My mate told me his house got a leaflet from UKIP saying something like "we will only let immigrants into this country if they fluent in English". I lol'd.


----------



## Vladimir Putin's LJ

Gonna watch the second and third debates today, whoop.

Meanwhile I found this site today and am probably extremely childish for laughing at it.


----------



## Dannichu

Defaced Conservative posters make my heart sing :D


----------



## Minish

Jessie said:


> I just want to give Brown a big cuddle. :<


So do I. :C



Dannichu said:


> Defaced Conservative posters make my heart sing :D


Same here. :D
I loved the one on Mock the Week- "Look at my big shiny face!"

Also, is it just me or is Cameron rather odd-looking especially even with make-up? :/ Really, a big picture of his face is the worst thing they could have done.


----------



## Ruby

Jokes about the Tories in Scotland are always great.


----------



## Dannichu

Cirrus said:


> Also, is it just me or is Cameron rather odd-looking especially even with make-up? :/ Really, a big picture of his face is the worst thing they could have done.


The photoshopping and excessive makeup not only looks awful, but I'm amazed that nobody on Cameron's election team sees how _covering up and concealing_ blemishes to make them _look less bad than they really are_ is problematic, particularly when "you can't trust Brown" is their big election message.

Plus, they're essentially saying that the British people aren't intelligent enough to know this isn't a beauty contest, and maybe if Cameron looks young, energetic and pretty enough (you can hear Clegg cackling away here), people will vote for him. It's patronising.


----------



## goldenquagsire

Dannichu said:


> Defaced Conservative posters make my heart sing :D


I'll always love "STEP OUTSIDE, POSH BOY".


----------



## Vladimir Putin's LJ

VOTE LABOUR.
OR ELSE.


----------



## departuresong

I'm not from the UK (but you guys know how left-wing I am) and even I can't fathom why anybody would choose LibDems over Labour.


----------



## Ruby

Because they are not liars, yet.


----------



## Lorem Ipsum

Is it me or is this forum massively left/centre?


----------



## Zuu

of course we are.


----------



## Minish

Dannichu said:


> The photoshopping and excessive makeup not only looks awful, but I'm amazed that nobody on Cameron's election team sees how _covering up and concealing_ blemishes to make them _look less bad than they really are_ is problematic, particularly when "you can't trust Brown" is their big election message.
> 
> Plus, they're essentially saying that the British people aren't intelligent enough to know this isn't a beauty contest, and maybe if Cameron looks young, energetic and pretty enough (you can hear Clegg cackling away here), people will vote for him. It's patronising.


I know, it's totally messed up logic. The 'common people' don't want someone without blemishes to run the country, they want someone who'll you know, actually sort out the economy for us. It just makes me wonder whether the Conservatives really are completely removed from reality...

...I've actually seen people on Facebook going "omg nick is so dishy i'm gonna vote for him!" I... I don't know whether to laugh or cry. :P



Lorem Ipsum said:


> Is it me or is this forum massively left/centre?


You seem surprised.


----------



## Harlequin

...

...

Richard Dawkins is in support of the Liberal Democrats.

I think I came.


----------



## Ruby

departuresong said:


> I'm not from the UK (but you guys know how left-wing I am) and even I can't fathom why anybody would choose LibDems over Labour.


opal wants me to give you a proper answer to this.  Well, there are a number of reasons.  The Liberal Democrats have not been in government, so they seem like a change, their economics man Vince Cable supposedly predicted the recession years in advance, they are better for civil rights and human rights than Labour have been, they voted against Iraq and against fees for university, they are not associated with striking trade unionists nor with aristocrats and bankers, and their leader is friendly and urbane but not so rich-looking as David Cameron.


----------



## Ruby

This is the strangest thing I have read in weeks: http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2010/may/03/gordon-brown-citizensuk-leadership-debate

Edit:  Haha.  Wow. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6BA2Jz7xIXw  That was _surreal_.


----------



## Minish

Ruby said:


> This is the strangest thing I have read in weeks: http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2010/may/03/gordon-brown-citizensuk-leadership-debate


...this reminds me of the weird seven-and-a-half minute standing ovation Tony Blair received when he left office.


----------



## Murkrow

Vladimir Putin's LJ said:


> Gonna watch the second and third debates today, whoop.
> 
> Meanwhile I found this site today


These have been plastered up around my school for a week or two. It's funny when a new one gets put up that I haven't seen before. But then I find it sad that people have been putting up BNP ones even as jokes.


----------



## Tarvos

BNP are the politicial version of:


----------



## Minish

Except less attractive.


----------



## goldenquagsire

UKIP are the political version of


----------



## Tailsy

I like to think of the Lib Dems as unicorns.


----------



## Tarvos

Invisible pink ones, mind.


----------



## Vladimir Putin's LJ

Did Gordon Brown discover cocaine.


----------



## Minish

Anyone else going to watch the 'alternative' election night on Channel 4?

...I will, but purely for the reason that the rather lovely David Mitchell will be there. :D I'm not overly fond of Jimmy Carr though.


----------



## Harlequin

Jimmy Carr is awesome D: <3 David Mitchell though. IDK I was going to watch the 'alternative election night' (or record it idk) but now I'm going to 'spoons for curry club so.


----------



## Tailsy

Alternative election night, obviously.

Hell_o_, Charlie Brooker is in it...


----------



## Yami Angel Christian

I hope to hell the Tories don't get in cuz they will screw this country up so much if they do! They're only in it for themselves and they're not helped by the fact that David Cameron is a toffie nosed noob when it comes to running the country!

Thing is as well, cuz there's a local election as well, I'm also not going to be voting Lib Dem, simply cuz they've screwed our area up quite badly, what with fortnightly bin collections which is the second definition of stupidity (after political correctness)!


----------



## Lorem Ipsum

Yami Angel Christian said:


> I hope to hell the Tories don't get in cuz they will screw this country up so much if they do! They're only in it for themselves and they're not helped by the fact that David Cameron is a toffie nosed noob when it comes to running the country!


Why would they "screw this country up"? And Nick Clegg is just as posh as Cameron - both went to private schools.


----------



## Harlequin

The fact that both are products of the public school system is irrelevant to any perception of 'poshness'. Cameron's whole persona and image is that of a 'posh' person, whereas Nick Clegg seems far more down to Earth and in touch with reality.

The actuality doesn't matter: Cameron appears to be more 'posh' than Clegg.


----------



## Tailsy

Lorem Ipsum said:


> Why would they "screw this country up"?


This kind of thing, probably.


----------



## Harlequin

Jessie said:


> This kind of thing, probably.


ily for this article, ty


----------



## Minish

Harlequin said:


> Jimmy Carr is awesome D: <3 David Mitchell though. IDK I was going to watch the 'alternative election night' (or record it idk) but now I'm going to 'spoons for curry club so.


'Spoons!
I love how British this thread is. :D

Thanks for the article, Tailsy. *pastes it on Facebook*


----------



## Harlequin

Cirrus said:


> 'Spoons!
> I love how British this thread is. :D
> 
> Thanks for the article, Tailsy. *pastes it on Facebook*


... I DID THE EXACT SAME THING <3

also yeah, 'spoons. <3 'spoons. I had lunch there a fortnight ago, it was nice. Never tried curry club but whatevs, should be good times.


----------



## Ruby

I still beg everyone to vote tactically against the Conservatives tomorrow.  They may actually win a majority.


----------



## Dannichu

Harlequin said:


> also yeah, 'spoons. <3 'spoons. I had lunch there a fortnight ago, it was nice. Never tried curry club but whatevs, should be good times.


I resent Spoons for banning over 18s after, like 6pm. Even if you're only ordering food. I always forget my ID ("I'm not drinking, I don't need my driver's licence!") and get kicked out and it's so, so embarassing D:

Bleeeeeh. I think I will end up anti-Tory tactially voting. I wish so much I could vote for the party I actually _want_ to win. The voting system is so, so unfair ;~;

I'm still stupidly excited about actually voting, though :D


----------



## Harlequin

Dannichu said:


> I resent Spoons for banning over 18s after, like 6pm. Even if you're only ordering food. I always forget my ID ("I'm not drinking, I don't need my driver's licence!") and get kicked out and it's so, so embarassing D:
> 
> Bleeeeeh. I think I will end up anti-Tory tactially voting. I wish so much I could vote for the party I actually _want_ to win. The voting system is so, so unfair ;~;
> 
> I'm still stupidly excited about actually voting, though :D


Oh, god, this hit my friend, too! Luckily whenever I go there at night I take my ID, but it's so annoying to get kicked out. Apparently sometimes I actually look like an adult so you know.

I don't have to vote tactically -- safe Labour seat here. I could vote for a snail and it'd have no bearing whatsoever.


----------



## goldenquagsire

fuck I'm ten months too young to vote. ten bloody months. and the next election isn't for another five years. I even know a couple of guys at school who are *just* old enough and I utterly resent them. :(

and also argh I wanna stay up for the Alternative Election Night but I have a German exam tomorrow so I need sleep.


----------



## Harlequin

:D

I just voted Liberal Democrat! And so many of my friends did, too, and my parents did... yayyyyyy.


----------



## Tailsy

goldenquagsire said:


> fuck I'm ten months too young to vote. ten bloody months. and the next election isn't for another five years. I even know a couple of guys at school who are *just* old enough and I utterly resent them. :(
> 
> and also argh I wanna stay up for the Alternative Election Night but I have a German exam tomorrow so I need sleep.


Four months. :|


----------



## goldenquagsire

Jessie said:


> Four months. :|


uh I've been 17 since March. which is two months. 12 months minus 2 months = ten months until I'm 18.


----------



## Vladimir Putin's LJ

She has four months to go.


----------



## goldenquagsire

Vladimir Putin's LJ said:


> She has four months to go.


oic. that was a rather silly misinterpretation on my part. ^^;;


----------



## Tailsy

You're a disappointment, frankly. >:(


----------



## Dannichu

I voted! :D (twice, in fact)

Whyyyyyyy can't under 18s vote, it's ridiculous. Of course older people aren't going to vote for things like scrapping uni tuition fees; it doesn't affect them! Someone who's 17 is way more likely to care about the environment than someone who's 70!

Plus, it's just plain hypocritical. A 16-year-old can work and pay taxes, or join the armed forces, but can't have a voice to say which government they're serving!  
My best friend's brother is severely mentally disabled; he's nineteen years old, but mentally about five, but is eligible to vote. If he doesn't have to prove a level of reasoning (nor should he), 16-year olds (or 12-year-olds or, well, anyone) shouldn't have to, either.


----------



## Jolty

/late
I know someone who was 2 DAYS out from voting :B and another person whose 18th was today lmao

also I voted twice too
yay for council elections?


----------



## Tarvos

tailsy's birthday is the day before mine - that's how i remember her age cos i know she's three years younger

also i'm voting in a month


----------



## Harlequin

Three Labour seats! Zero Conservative! Zero Liberal Democrat! One Sinn Fein! ... another "other" seat!


----------



## Tailsy

It's DUP.


----------



## Harlequin

lol dup. the Alliance Party got a seat, too!

ALSO the Liberal Democrats won a seat! :3


----------



## Jolty

only 4 lib dems atm booooo


----------



## Dannichu

I like how the South West's doing - the Conservatives were beaten by Labour in Exeter and the Lib Dems in Torbay. I want to know how Newton Abbot/Teignbridge/whatever the hell my constituency's called now went!


----------



## Tailsy

Labour hold Stirling - where I live, which is lovely :> 71% turnout, too!


----------



## Dannichu

Yeah; even though the results aren't really what I'd like, the turnout in most areas is absolutely fantastic.


----------



## Ruby

Some of the results are completely random, but the Tories are still winning far too many seats.  Nice to see Huhne and Kahn keep their seats.  Too bad for Lembit.


----------



## Harlequin

!!! I am very disappointed in Wales. >:( Our system is fucking outrageous and I hope Brown is able to form a coallition government with the Lib Dems so that we can go some way to fixing it.

I want to see what's happening in Neath and Aberavon, although I assume they're going to be Labour.


----------



## Murkrow

Well there's Neath and Aberavon.

I'm waiting for Cardiff North.


----------



## Harlequin

Aberavon was predictably Labour, but the Lib Dems gained like, over a percent! ALSO Libs got Cardiff Central.


----------



## Tailsy

Scotland is like !!!!! LABOUR IS STILL HERE WTF

Guys, it's because everyone is like 8( I don't want the Tories to win yeep *labour*


----------



## Harlequin

wtf Libs had 14 seats and then they lost one :( sadness.


----------



## Jolty

^ I raged

we're still labour here
Scotland is cool beans :( and so is the South West


----------



## Harlequin

We're still Labour, yeah. But Labour > Conservatives.


----------



## Dannichu

_Whaaaah_. I was frantically refreshing Twitter, which claimed that the Lib Dems won in Newton Abbot, and then moments later, the BBC flashes up a giant CORRECTION and says that the Tories won it by 500 bloody votes. 

I'm absolutely gutted. ;~;

Totnes (which is generally hippyish and fantastic) held onto its Tory seat, too ):


----------



## Tailsy

GOD ENGLAND YOU'RE ALL SUCH DOUCHES


----------



## Harlequin

This could go any way, now. LibCon government, LibLab... AND I wish the Liberal Democrats would stealing Labour seats. NEEDS MORE CON GAINS BITCHES.


----------



## Tailsy

8( Con hold in Dumfries. I feel dirty.


----------



## Harlequin

Con gain in Camarthen West. :( laem


----------



## Dannichu

If The Green Party/Caroline Lucas doesn't win in Brighton, I'm actually going to cry. 

Also, it's a disgrace that some people weren't able to vote. Yes, people going ten minutes before closing time are a bit silly, but there's no excuse for three-hour queues or running out of polling cards )<


----------



## Harlequin

Does anyone else LOVE David Dimbleby? He's brilliant. <3 He just called the BNP the National Front. And his other comments on the leylandii. <3


----------



## Dannichu

Dimbleby's absolutely fantastic <3
Though I admit the trippy purple-and-pink background of Parliament behind him is addling my sleepy brain.

Actually, I'm absolutely loving the BBC team here; Andrew Marr, Fiona Bruce, Jeremy Paxman, Kirsty Wark and Jeremy Vine - there's nobody else I'd rather have breaking all this horrible news to me ):


----------



## Tailsy

I wish they'd stop talking to this prick Conservative MP.

No, the SNP aren't gaining any seats because _people want your party to fuck off_, you stupid cunt.


----------



## Harlequin

I really, really love Emily Maitlis. She's brilliant. I'm a bit of a fan, really.

Still disappointed with this election. ... AHAHAHAHAHA no one made a sound when the dewsbury bnp result was mentioned.


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## Murkrow

Cardiff North is conservative by less than 200 votes :(


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## Lady Grimdour

Cardiff South and Penarth are mostly Labour, with Cameron and friends behind by 10.7%.

sadly the Lib Dems are down by 16%. :(


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## Harlequin

WELL let's hope Cameron gets a Conservative minority government and then when he proves he's a dick and the Conservatives suck, a LibLab coalition (SRY for spelling that word incorrectly yesterday, I was drunk and not thinking :() can topple the government and force another election (preferably after some kind of electoral reform).


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## goldenquagsire

so uh. we have a hung parliament. what now.

also fuck's sake 57 Lib Dem seats. I thought they'd be getting much better results.


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## Zeph

Graah, Conservatives have won in both the constituencies that I am sitting on the edge of. My fault for living in such a rural area...


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## Lorem Ipsum

Conservatives have gained my constituency, and one of the Plymouth ones next door. Yay!


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## Harlequin

Well, what we wait for now is details on any possible LibCon/LibLab Con minority goverments. A Conservative minority government that falls due to a LibLab alliance blocking anything passing through Parliament is the best outcome, forcing another election soon.

Plus side: at least after we suffer through this Conservative goverrnment they'll be out of power for a while again, and a new generation of voters will have first hand experience of how shit they are.


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## Jolty

I have nothing serious to add but my friend just decided:


> Clegg is Luke Skywalker, and he's being tempted into the Dark Side by Darth Cameron as we speak, while Gordi Brown Kenobi is trying to steer him right


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## Tarvos

I rather Tories than people voting BNP


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## Ruby

Watershed said:


> I rather Tories than people voting BNP


The sort of people who might vote BNP are quite different from the sort who vote Tory.


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## Dannichu

This gave me a giggle.

I am decidedly not happy with the idea of a Lib/Con government.

I've heard that we could end up with a "traffic light" government, with Caroline Lucas and Plaid Cymru (GREEN) the SNP and Liberal Democrats (AMBER) and Labour (RED). That sounds good to me (or at least, preferable to anything else on the table at the moment). 

On the other hand, even if the Tories DO attempt a minority government, they'll not get very far, with all the concessions they'll have to make to get votes. 

That said, they'll be an incredibly unstable government even if they were a majority - most LibDems are liberal, most Labour MPs support Labour ideals, but not all Conservatives are conservative, as shown by Cameron going after the gay vote while having Phillipa Stroud (who claims that homosexuality can be "prayed away") as an MP.


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## Minish

Just saw the protest outside Westminster on the news, Clegg looked so delighted seeing so many people there! He said he was listening and of course that political reform is still his main goal.

I doubt a Con/Lib coalition will ever happen now, which is brilliant. I'm sure only good can come of this!


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## Ruby

A LibCon coalition would probably be good for the Labour Party, you know.


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## Minish

...I don't care about Labour?

How would it be good for them?


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## Ruby

Cirrus said:


> ...I don't care about Labour?


Well, I know.  I was just saying.





Cirrus said:


> How would it be good for them?


If there were a LibCon coalition, particularly one that made severe cuts, the Liberal Democrat vote would collapse, the Tory vote would leak into UKIP and the BNP, but the Labour vote would rise.  And coalitions don't last long.  An election might be held within a year, and Labour could win it with a majority.  That would be a great victory for Labour and the death of the Tory Party.


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## Minish

I doubt it. Most people I know that support the Tories are just tired of Labour. While the LibCon coalition would fall, Labour would rise in popularity and get in, but from the general population who actually don't care much about politics and just tend to vote for whoever isn't in at the moment because "they'll do better".


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## Ruby

Cirrus said:


> I doubt it. Most people I know that support the Tories are just tired of Labour. While the LibCon coalition would fall, Labour would rise in popularity and get in, but from the general population who actually don't care much about politics and just tend to vote for whoever isn't in at the moment because "they'll do better".


But what about the LibDem supporters you know?


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## Minish

Ruby said:


> But what about the LibDem supporters you know?


What about them? Most Lib Dem supporters I know are very staunch and have been supporters/voters for years. They tend to be more consistent.

This is just what I've experienced, of course.


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## Ruby

But won't they be very upset by a LibCon coalition?


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## Harlequin

Depending on what the Liberal Democrat side of the coalition opposed/supported, perhaps not. 

I'm hoping for a Conservative minority government that goes very badly, and is then brought down by a LibLabGreenPlaid alliance, forcing another general election next year.


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## Lorem Ipsum

Here's hoping for a Conservative minority government, which then calls another election in the next eighteen months, and actually wins a sizeable majority.


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## Tarvos

Not gonna happen. The Tories may be old but they are not good rulers. The spending cuts will make them extremely unpopular. And they will need to, too - the UK economy is swirling down the drain as we speak. Any person who gets their sorry ass in power now is fucked thanks to the economic crisis.


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## Lorem Ipsum

It's a shame really. I like David Cameron, and this probably means I won't see another Tory government for a decade and a half.


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## goldenquagsire

Lorem Ipsum said:


> It's a shame really. I like David Cameron,





> I like David Cameron





> David Cameron


huh

last time I checked even a sizeable majority of Conservatives hate Cameron. if there was ever a PR-manufactured, politically-correct, demographically-targeted shitbag, it was David Cameron. admittedly most politicians are like that but honestly Cameron seems to have gotten serious politics confused with fucking Britain's Got Talent.



> and this probably means I won't see another Tory government for a decade and a half.


well they had a Tory government just before you were born (actually it may have even still been in its death throes when you were a little kiddiewink - my maths fails me this evening). trust me, it wasn't much fun.


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## Shiny Grimer

goldenquagsire said:


> trust me, it wasn't much fun.


What were Margaret Thatcher's policies besides "free market yay"? I know some people who absolutely love her, though I can't fathom why. She doesn't seem to be very popular nowadays. I'm curious as to why she is just so disliked.


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## Tailsy

... said:


> What were Margaret Thatcher's policies besides "free market yay"? I know some people who absolutely love her, though I can't fathom why. She doesn't seem to be very popular nowadays. I'm curious as to why she is just so disliked.


Oh, ask the entire population of Scotland! I'm sure they'd be able to tell you.


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## Tarvos

Also, keep in mind that it's much easier to be in the opposition - you're not responsible for the running of the countries.

Another thing: ruling coalitions are common in mainland Europe, and they have quite stable governments.


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## Lorem Ipsum

I personally think that Thatcher was the best post-war PM we had, for several reasons that are probably massively unpopular amongst your liberal selves.


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## Tailsy

Lorem Ipsum said:


> I personally think that Thatcher was the best post-war PM we had, for several reasons that are probably massively unpopular amongst your liberal selves.


Ah, for these winning policies like the poll tax, eradicating the mining industry and leaving thousands jobless, kicking the shit out of the welfare state, slowly defanging every trade union..


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## Lorem Ipsum

The mining industry was taking more out of government spending than it was giving back - it was brutal, but it was necessary; it was either the unemployment of thousands or the continuing shittiness of the country's finances. Trade unions deserved to be defanged: they were far too militant and adversely affecting the country through strikes.


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## Tailsy

Oh, and of course you couldn't have taken it out of something like... I don't know... somewhere that didn't involve _ruining people's lives_? 

And uh, what? Trade unions stood for the rights of workers, wtf. OH NO PEOPLE WANT TO BE LISTENED TO :( WAAH BETTER GET RID OF THAT. You can't only think of strikes as a thing with a one-sided effect - people had to strike so their working conditions and their pay could be improved. Unfortunately, the 'neutral' media poorly portrays this side of the argument whenever there's a strike.


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## Harlequin

SHE TOOK OUR MILK DUDES, THATCHER WAS A MILK SNATCHER.

No but seriously, there is a _reason_ only 64% of voters didn't vote Conservative, and it's because the Conservatives are _doing it wrong, will do it wrong and have done it wrong._ Labour has consistently had to deal with the mess the country has been left in by the Conservatives after each time they've been allowed to rule.


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## Ruby

Thatcher was naive to be so completely taken in by an untried economic ideology which she did not even understand.


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## Dannichu

I'm with you that things like the mining industries were going to close down in the near future anyway, but the way she brutally did it and _did nothing to replace _the jobs and, really entire infrastrucure, destroyed in those communities was both callous and foolish.

Of course, this is from a woman who believed that "there is no such thing as society", so. (evil woman be dissing my subject )<)

As far as I'm concerned, Britian is still nowhere near recovered from the damage she did to the country, and I for one would do just about anything to stop her party being allowed to wreak havoc, particularly against vulnerable people (sorry, Cameron, but "We'll cut benefits for people who refuse work!" is a shockingly cruel policy and the sad thing is you'll never understand why) again.

I realize I'm biased; My parents actually think that Thatcher was the antichrist. We've got a Margret Thatcher characature teapot in a prominent place in our dining room because my dad likes looking at her twisted visage. He's especially fond of her giant nose. 
...I really don't know.


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## Ruby

The other thing I hate is that she saw almost all politics in terms of economics, and the Labour Party copied her!


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## Harlequin

Thatcher practically _destroyed_ my community. When the mines closed they weren't replaced with anything at all, and that left most of the men here jobless. How the hell is a community supposed to recover from that?!


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## Dannichu

Anyone confused by the idea of a hung parliament/The UK Election in general - watch this.

Great stuff (I mostly love the Nick Clegg post-it).


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## Lorem Ipsum

Dannichu said:


> Anyone confused by the idea of a hung parliament/The UK Election in general - watch this.
> 
> Great stuff (I mostly love the Nick Clegg post-it).


lololol I love the party leaders' post-its


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## Minish

Poor Gordon and his muckle big ears.

Thanks for the video Danni, I've seen this guy before and his videos are pretty awesome.


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## Harlequin

<3

I'm hung like Parliament. Are _you?_


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## Lorem Ipsum

Gordon Brown has, in effect, resigned as leader of the Labour Party.


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## Minish

Harlequin said:


> [image]
> 
> <3
> 
> I'm hung like Parliament. Are _you?_


I had no idea what you were talking about, so I went and looked up alternative definitions of 'hung'.

...oh Clegg. ;D


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## Harlequin

Lorem Ipsum said:


> Gordon Brown has, in effect, resigned as leader of the Labour Party.


He hasn't 'in effect' resigned -- he's resigning as soon as a new party leader is found. This is a good thing for the country, but a sad thing for poor Gordon :( Oh well, now the way is paved for a LibLab coalition!

Also Cirrus: :B [btw it's defs not an official poster, it's just awesome]


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## Murkrow

Laughing at the journalists jumping to corner everyone who comes out of Downing Street right now.


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## Vladimir Putin's LJ

Gordon leaving was predictable but I still want to give him a hug. I just feel so sorry for him with all the horrible shit constantly happening in his life, haha.


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## Tailsy

;_; GORDO

SCOTLAND LOVES YOU


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## Minish

Harlequin said:


> Also Cirrus: :B [btw it's defs not an official poster, it's just awesome]


I would be seriously amused if it _were_ an official poster. :P It should be! They should start using it!

And nooo Gordon. ;-; Now he's going to go off back home and everyone here will remember him for being incompetent... the poor bloke.


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## Tarvos

Well, he was incompetent.


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## Vladimir Putin's LJ

All that trust in the LibDems was sure worth it!
I certainly am looking forward to seeing Cameron's slimeball face on the news all the time oh my golly gosh


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## Tailsy

Well, it's possible they formed a minority government! ... Okay Clegg is still a douche but >:(

And aww omg Gordon :( his wee resignation speech was so sad.


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## Jolty

CAN I BE THE FIRST HERE TO SAY GODDAMNIT


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## Ruby

Brown actually looked relieved.


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## Minish

Well, there we go. :/

Personally, I'm not hating the Con-Lib coalition. Before the election, maybe, but it was obvious that Cameron was going to get in with or without the LDs backing him, we didn't even know the decision until after he was sworn in. I'd prefer this over a pure Conservative government, that's for sure.

Awwww Gordon. ;-; I actually got teary at his speech.


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## departuresong

Sorry your country's going to be in the shitter for a while, guys.


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## Minish

I'm a little unsure about something... as far as I know, with Clegg or without Clegg, Cameron could have become Prime Minister? Doesn't the Queen go to the person "most likely to be able to form a government"? Sure, it would be a minority government, but I've seen tons of people starting to hate Clegg because he "let Cameron become Prime Minister"?

Could someone with a better understanding of the situation clear this up for me? I want to still be able to support Clegg, it depresses me that the entirety of Facebook seem to be claiming him as the devil. Surely a Con-Lib coalition is better than what would have happened anyway (the Queen going to Cameron), because this way there are some LDs in government? If Clegg really does become Deputy PM then surely that will stop Cameron mucking up as much as he might do...


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## Harlequin

Clegg could have gone with Labour to form a LibLab minority government, as well as working with the smaller parties. THAT'S why he 'let Cameron in'.

ALSO TOTAL CONDEMNATION GOING ON HERE >:(

lol deputy pm. idk I'm in two minds, but I guess we'll just have to wait and see what happens. Maybe the Lib Dems on the Cabinet will be able to moderate the Conservatives.


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## Minish

Ah, right. But then again Labour said that they didn't want to do electoral reform, which was pretty much the LDs' biggest objective. And if Cameron's compromised on that... it's really no surprise.

And haha, I love the idea of Clegg being "deputy PM". I can just imagine Cameron making a public appearance and Clegg just in the shadows looking absolutely livid.


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## Ruby

The LibDems are trying to make it sound as if the LibCon deal was Labour's fault.


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## Harlequin

Cirrus said:


> Ah, right. But then again Labour said that they didn't want to do electoral reform, which was pretty much the LDs' biggest objective. And if Cameron's compromised on that... it's really no surprise.
> 
> And haha, I love the idea of Clegg being "deputy PM". I can just imagine Cameron making a public appearance and Clegg just in the shadows looking absolutely livid.


Rumour has it Labour was offering a bill on alternative vote ASAP and a referendum on full PR at a later date.


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## Tailsy

William Hague is foreign secretary, fml.


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## Vladimir Putin's LJ

I'd like to think Clegg would be the guy silently thwarting things in the background but tbh right now I can't imagine that Cameron and Clegg won't just perpetually suck each other off.


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## Dannichu

Cirrus said:


> I'm a little unsure about something... as far as I know, with Clegg or without Clegg, Cameron could have become Prime Minister? Doesn't the Queen go to the person "most likely to be able to form a government"? Sure, it would be a minority government, but I've seen tons of people starting to hate Clegg because he "let Cameron become Prime Minister"?


Right, what I'm about to say could be complete crap, so plese correct me if that's the case. 

Cameron could've gone ahead and formed a minority government without Nick's support, but the huge problem with that is that, without the support of any other parties, they'd never get things passed, because they always need a majority of PMs to vote on it. So a minority government is a fairly weak, ineffective government.

Add this to the fact that the Conservative part is, as far as I'm aware, a fairly internally divided party anyway. I've probably said this earlier in the thread, but while most LibDems and Labour MPs genuinely belive in the core principles of their party, I don't think anyone even knows that the core principles of the Tory party are anymore. Cameron tried to get the gay vote and proposed giving tax breaks to those in civil partnerships, while at the same time having a woman who belived that homosexuality was a disease that could be prayed away as one of the "rising stars" within his own party. He tried to put all his eggs in one basket during the election, and now he's actually large and in charge, I for one have absolutely no idea what he's going to do.

Anyway, the Tories as a minority government wouldn't have lasted long at all, because they'd be blocked at every turn, especially by Labour. So after a short, ineffective period of government, either a re-election would be forced (which the Tories would probably lose because they've just been a horrible, fail-y government for the last six months or whatever), or the other parties would join forces, become a majority and get something done.

...Possibly.


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## Minish

Thanks for clearing it up, Danni. :D A minority government would have been pretty crap imo even with a party other than the Tories, because I'd imagine nothing would actually ever get done. I thought before that you absolutely had to get a majority to ever get into power and that a coalition was necessary.

And... I realise that I'm definitely in the minority within Lib Dem supporters, but you know what? I like this coalition. I don't like the Tories, but it felt clear from the start that they were going to get in because of how unpopular Brown is. In my opinion, this is the lesser evil to a pure but minority Conservative government (and maybe even an traffic light/rainbow coalition because it would have been unstable, plus the nationalist parties are obviously going to be less inclined to try and help the entirety of the UK over their own country).

Cameron's a slightly tame Tory, he seems to change his mind on things a lot, and this is the only way the Lib Dems were ever going to have a chance of getting into power. I don't see Clegg as power-seeking and a sell-out or whatever, because this way they'll stop sucky Conservative stuff happening. Plus it means that some things I really liked in the Lib Dem manifesto, like some sort of electoral reform (I know it's only AV but it's _something_), the pupil premium thing etc. will happen... or that's what they've been saying, anyway.

Well, anyway, I'm just going to see what's going to happen. But for now I like the coalition and think less bad things will happen, and more good thingd will happen.


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## Tarvos

Tories are going to be moderated anyway. If the Tories want to enact hardline policies, they will get blocked by the LibDems. You guys know how coalitions work right? Usually when two parties form a ruling coalition, they form an agreement, formal or informal, that will contain their goals for that election period. If either of them backs out of that agreement, then the other party will step out of the coalition and force new elections. (while having a demissionary govt until those elections).

The Tories can't do SHIT without the LibDems, so it's good they're moderating the Tory influence. The LibDems will let the Tories enact *some* of their ideas. But definitely not all of them and the Tories will have to bend over here and there, or they lose their majority before you can say "Thatcher'.

I am used to coalition govts - they are common in the Netherlands where all the parties are splintered.


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## Teh Ebil Snorlax

Same in Ireland, we have PR voting, so no one has had an outright majority in decades. Even though the Greens are a tiny minority within the government, they have enough members to topple the government by pulling out and they were able to reign in Fianna Fáil on more than one occasion. If only they'd stopped NAMA...


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## Tailsy

Cirrus said:


> And... I realise that I'm definitely in the minority within Lib Dem supporters, but you know what? I like this coalition. I don't like the Tories, but it felt clear from the start that they were going to get in because of how unpopular Brown is. In my opinion, this is the lesser evil to a pure but minority Conservative government (and maybe even an traffic light/rainbow coalition because it would have been unstable, plus the nationalist parties are obviously going to be less inclined to try and help the entirety of the UK over their own country).


What!! 2003 Scottish Parliament was freakin' awesome. 7 Greens, 6 SSP and 4 Independents! Rainbow Parliaments are sparkly, mmkay. Labour/LibDem coalitions here work absolutely fine. It's hardly 'unstable', it just provides a variety of opinion instead of an elected dictatorship. Besides, it moderates all the planks. 
We have a minority government right now, actually! It's kinda cool, except the other parties are like >8( NO at an independence referendum because... fuck knows. They're dumb.


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