# Villainous Team Choice Pokémafia - Game Thread



## M&F

*Villainous Team Choice Pokémafia - Game Thread*

*Looker's daily report*

Finally, all of the bad guys are arrested! But, sadly, some them are thinking that they are still free, because they are attempting to break the jail. The jail is very solid, but even then, we want all the inmates to cooperate! That is, cooperate with us, not cooperate with them. If you cooperate with them, you are going to jail- I mean, yes, well... Anyway, please, do something about these nonrepenting crooks, hmm?

*72 hours for the actions of the night.*


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## Autumn

*Re: Villainous Team Choice Pokémafia - Game Thread*

this is beautiful

and yes i am going to continue to post in the night and if/when i die because fuck the rules. i'm a villains i'm not supposed to obey ur stupid shit world


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## M&F

*Re: Villainous Team Choice Pokémafia - Game Thread*

Whoops, that slipped past me for a bit. Can't let that keep happening.

*Seventh notch on Lysandre's cell wall.*

So, the wards want us to cooperate with them about the possible jailbreak incidents... Tch. There is nothing they can do to me right now that can top what I've already been through. I fear death no longer, for better or for worse. As I ever do, I shall simply care for my own business and, mayhap, satisfy my curiosity.

Speaking of which -- I'm told a former Magma admin was found dead in the compound this morning. *Courtney* was her name, apparently? She was dressed in something different than her usual outfit, so apparently people couldn't see the injuries straight away... But I hear they were, ah, far from beautiful. Perhaps that's supposed to be some kind of message to the prisoners who have decided to cooperate with the authorities? Either way, it doesn't affect me, seeing as I won't be coerc-

Hm? When did my bottle of nail polish become so lightweight? ... Why is it empty? Oh, there's a tag here- "Help us find the jailbreakers or else this will keep happening to your cosmetics"?

... No. _NOOOOOOO!!_

*Superbird, the Courtney, is dead. He was Innocent.

72 hours for discussion.*


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## I liek Squirtles

*Re: Villainous Team Choice Pokémafia - Game Thread*

I think that the different clothes are the most important part. Maybe someone that swapped the actual target with Superbird.


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## Autumn

*Re: Villainous Team Choice Pokémafia - Game Thread*



Metallica Fanboy said:


> Hm? When did my bottle of nail polish become so lightweight? ... Why is it empty? Oh, there's a tag here- "Help us find the jailbreakers or else this will keep happening to your cosmetics"?
> 
> ... No. _NOOOOOOO!!_


lysandre confirmed for kristoph gavin

and uh yeah wtf is up with that clothes thing. flavor text is Never irrelevant.(*whispers* never) but like wtf that's not very much to go on


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## Kratos Aurion

*Re: Villainous Team Choice Pokémafia - Game Thread*

Hm. Unusual clothes might be relevant, eh? I dunno, could be, but as this was a pretty bog-standard N1 (one death, nothing else of obvious note) I don't suppose we have anything else to talk about. Let me see if I can spitball up anything interesting.

-Superbird was not the killer's original target and was subject to some sort of redirect (assuming the flavor is something like the user of that action dressing him up as the intended target). A simple redirection effect, or maybe a bus driver? Redirect roles are _usually_ innocent in my experience, although I do wonder why you'd redirect someone on N1. If it's something like a bus driver who happens to be able to choose themselves as one of the "passengers" (I don't think they normally can?), then I guess they could try to switch themselves with someone they thought was likely to be protected/unlikely to be killed. Outside of that, I think most redirect roles usually choose a person whose action they want to redirect, which is a) a very strange thing to do on N1 when you are operating on zero information and don't know whether you're redirecting a useful/dangerous action, and b) means that they don't choose the _target_ of the redirect, which would seem to make the clothing change unnecessary. Soooo possibly either a wardrobe-swapping bus driver, or another redirect role with some other sort of targeting rules that I can't think of right now...????

-Or perhaps Superbird had a power that would let him disguise himself as someone else, a redirect-to-self sort of power? Not very Courtney-ish, for either Old Annoying Laugh Courtney or New GLaDOS Courtney, but I dunno if that'd really matter in a choice mafia. More importantly, I feel like that'd also be a risky thing to try on N1... you could disguise yourself as someone you think is likely to be protected, I guess, but if they're likely to be protected then they're also likely to be killed. Less sure about this one, but eh.

-Stepping away from redirection for a moment, is there some other reason someone might mess with another person's clothes? Maybe instead of redirecting an action, it's some other kind of disguise (that... I'm guessing... didn't work? On account of he's dead, you see)? Stealing clothing or something from him after he died? I can't think of any particularly likely roles or powers based on either of those things. Maybe something interesting will come to me when I'm less tired, eh.

...part of me wants to say it could be some kind of janitor-esque attempt to hide the body's identity, but that very clearly did not happen (it's obviously Courtney, modpost unambiguously states innocence), so, uh. Unless the intent was to make Superbird flip innocent even though he's really not, but why would that happen???? Janitors are usually mafia and the point would be either to hide the alignment outright, or to frame an innocent and make them look guilty... so... ugh yeah I should stop and get ready for bed now my ideas are getting progressively worse and nothing makes sense anymore.

...but yeah, without anything else to go on that's all speculation. Nice to keep in mind, though, I guess. Maybe someone else has some alternative ideas to consider?

(P.S. kristoph lysandre yes, this is a good plan and is a thing that should continue to happen)


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## JackPK

*Re: Villainous Team Choice Pokémafia - Game Thread*



Metallica Fanboy said:


> She was dressed in something different than her usual outfit


The fact that this is all the detail that we get, and that it isn't specified what she actually _was_ dressed in, makes me think maybe this wasn't a redirect or swapping-type power (which I would presume would be accompanied by narration about exactly what she was wearing). On the other hand, I might just be reading too much into MF's flavor-writing decisions. And even if it's not a redirect or swap, I still have no idea what it would be instead.

There's also entirely the possibility that that bit of flavor was omitted because Superbird was redirected/swapped with somebody who wears unique/easily identifiable clothing or no clothing. So that would be... Flora/Lovrina, ILS/Gengar or Ice, Butterfree/N, Nira/Ghetsis, Kratos/Wes, ZM/Gonzap, and Altissimo/whatever she ended up with. So, uh, now that I think of it, that's actually most of the list. Plenty of whom are well-known good-at-Mafia players whom the scum could totally plausibly target on night 1.

So I guess there's a pretty fair chance that my only idea was a moot point, now that I think it through pretty thoroughly.


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## Autumn

*Re: Villainous Team Choice Pokémafia - Game Thread*

I ended up with All Four Go-Rock Quads, for reference. Not that it really matters but i figured i'd share

kratos you have a lot of interesting ideas, unfortunately i am too tired to actually make sense of half of them at the moment lol i will come back later today with more substantial post i just wanted to respond to "Altissimo/whatever she ended up with"


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## Vipera Magnifica

*Re: Villainous Team Choice Pokémafia - Game Thread*

If the role I received is any indication, there's probably a few disruptive roles like redirectors, roleblockers and framers in this game.

I think MF definitely put a lot of uncommon roles in this game, because the one I got was a role I'd never seen before. So I guess we have to keep an open mind and expect some Major Fuckery in this game.


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## JackPK

*Re: Villainous Team Choice Pokémafia - Game Thread*

I guess in the interest of transparency and providing more material to work with, I'll share a bit more info. As it turns out, Team Rocket's Meowth wasn't game-canon enough for MF, so my role is Petrel, and as you can probably guess, my night action is flavored around disguises. For now, I'd rather keep to myself what exactly that night action is.

In any case, I refrained from using my night action, and after seeing the flavor of today's death, I requested and just received PM clarification from MF that yes, we are allowed to refrain from night actions, so as far as I know I'm not responsible for Courtney's disguise. So I'm guessing that either (A) we have somebody else whose night action is also flavored around disguises, or (B) we have some kind of role that can force others to use their night actions without them knowing.

God, I hope (B) isn't true, that would be a huge pain for us to take into account in trying to deduce virtually anything.


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## Kratos Aurion

*Re: Villainous Team Choice Pokémafia - Game Thread*

oh god dammit I keep mixing up the Rocket execs' English and Japanese names. I was thinking it might've had something to do with your role, but I kept telling myself that the disguise guy was Lambda. Lambda and Petrel are the same bloody person Phoenix you jerk. Ugh.

Anyway, that is interesting. I'm not surprised people can refrain from acting, but this does mean (if we choose to believe you, et cetera et cetera standard mafia game blather) that it's going to be harder to figure out what happened to Superbird. Who else would have a disguise-related role? Again assuming that the flavor _is_ actually meaningful, of course.

I guess it's safe to say that he probably didn't do that to himself, at least. Jack's power apparently fits Petrel well, and I'd say mine fits me well (though not in a way I was expecting), so I guess it's unlikely that Courtney would have a power that seems so far removed from anything she's done in the games.


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## M&F

*Re: Villainous Team Choice Pokémafia - Game Thread*

*24-hour extension.*

And here's hoping I'll actually be awake this exact time 24 hours from now.


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## Autumn

*Re: Villainous Team Choice Pokémafia - Game Thread*

and here's hoping people Say a Thing

i texted @VM 3 TIMES yelling him to post in mafia and he has not


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## Vipera Magnifica

*Re: Villainous Team Choice Pokémafia - Game Thread*

This thread is only one page long and yet you managed to not see my post :/


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## Kratos Aurion

*Re: Villainous Team Choice Pokémafia - Game Thread*

Does anyone else have anything to say at all, though? I know we had a really vanilla-looking night and the only discussion has been entirely speculative, so I guess I understand not having much to contribute, but it is nice to know people are paying attention. :/ And quiet mafia games are no fun anyway! Don't make me start ranting about how silence is useless to town again, it's too early for that >|


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## Zapi

*Re: Villainous Team Choice Pokémafia - Game Thread*

I don't have anything extraordinarily useful to add, but it might be possible that Courtney being found wearing "something other than her usual outfit" might not be... disguise-related? Like, maybe the standard Magma outfit just wasn't practical for performing whatever her night action was, for... some reason. What that reason could be, I have no idea, but. Just throwing this out there in the interest of adding to the discussion, I guess.

(Also, I think someone was wondering whether this Courtney is R/S/E Courtney or OR/AS Courtney, so I wanted to say that I am pretty clearly OR/AS Archie. Which doesn't necessarily mean that MF decided to go with OR/AS Courtney as well, but I just wanted to say that now to avoid any future confusion about who _I_ am.)


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## Flora

*Re: Villainous Team Choice Pokémafia - Game Thread*



JackPK said:


> Flora [...] good-at-Mafia players


This is hilarious because I'm so bad at mafia that I continuously forget when I'm playing

I was refraining from posting until I could formulate my thoughts, and then everyone else said anything I could've said and accidentally two days passed. Oops.

Night 1 and Day 1 are always the hugest struggles.

(Also I've been crying at Kristoph!Lysandre for days)


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## Autumn

*Re: Villainous Team Choice Pokémafia - Game Thread*



Vipera Magnifica said:


> This thread is only one page long and yet you managed to not see my post :/


ok yeah i actually did miss it -_- i fail

anyhow i don't know that i have anything to add either, i have said my shit. maybe it is time to just *abstain* as per always on the first day of mafia --


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## kyeugh

*Re: Villainous Team Choice Pokémafia - Game Thread*

Jack's, "I didn't do it because I didn't do it," isn't really sufficient to shake my suspicions entirely when the scrap of suggestive flavour we got points to him— especially given that he's not sharing the details of his role.  I agree that it might be best to *abstain* for the day, though.


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## M&F

*Re: Villainous Team Choice Pokémafia - Game Thread*

*Looker's daily report*

I see that the prisoners have truly taken charging of the situation, but as they are simple, silly criminals and not ace International Police detectives like moi, they have not made much progress. ... I have not made much progress, also.

All I could gather from their conversation was some ruckusing about the clothes that some person or other was wearing. If you are asking me, the inmates should all be wearing prison uniforms, no? Why are they not all wearing prison uniforms? But, ah, it is no good to boss around... I shall lead by example! From now on, I, Looker, will be wearing a prison uniform!

*No one was lynched.

72 hours for the actions of the night.*


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## M&F

*Re: Villainous Team Choice Pokémafia - Game Thread*

*Eighth notch on Lysandre's cell wall.*

In the end, I have managed to persuade the warden to replenish my nail polish. The strength of his beliefs simply couldn't match the strength of my beliefs. After all, low people such as that man are only good for taking and taking what belongs to others.

I do digress; my neutrality in the matter of the escaping prisoners is preserved. A great mind such as mine must maintain its sights on the bigger picture, rather than on such everyday trifles. Although... admittedly, the loss of freedom does, too, imply a certain loss of reach. Alas, for the plain entertainment of it, I might just keep an eye on what those lowly criminals might be up to.

It doesn't seem as if anyone's suffered the same fate as poor Courtney did two notches ago. On the surface, it might seem as if the tensions in the compound are waning, but the night was hardly silent. Why, myself, I have clearly heard *two people targeting JackPK*, and that must not have been the end of it. I do grow curious as to what shadows lurk these barred walls... But it simply isn't so much of a concern as to put a serious effort forth into investigation.

Now then, one thing I can still truly set my mind to, and that is beauty. Tragically, most of my fellow inmates have let go of that particular concern since their incarceration. They simply do not understand the importance of it, and this place grows uglier by the minute. It ultimately falls to me alone to preserve the beauty, and I won't fai- hmmmm? What is this that I smell in my nail polish container? Could this be... a low-quality replacement, rather than the actual substance that was once within??

_GRAAAAAAAAHHHH!!!_

... I stand corrected. Today, there has been one casualty: my nail polish bottle.

*No one has died.

72 hours for discussion.*


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## Autumn

*Re: Villainous Team Choice Pokémafia - Game Thread*



Metallica Fanboy said:


> What is this that I smell in my nail polish container? Could this be... a low-quality replacement, rather than the actual substance that was once within??
> 
> _GRAAAAAAAAHHHH!!!_
> 
> ... I stand corrected. Today, there has been one casualty: my nail polish bottle.


lysandre more confirmed for kristoph gavin

anyway wtf


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## Zero Moment

*Re: Villainous Team Choice Pokémafia - Game Thread*

The two people targeting JackPK might have been Mafia and a Doctor. Does your role announce when you're targeted every night?


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## Kratos Aurion

*Re: Villainous Team Choice Pokémafia - Game Thread*

Could be a doctor, could be a kill attempt, but could be any number of other things. I'd imagine that any inspector-esque roles would be curious about him after his partial claim yesterday, for example.

I am curious as to why we got that announcement, though... maybe Jack does have some kind of broadcasting power, although it doesn't jive with his claim and doesn't seem very Petrel-y in general (unless it's something to do with Johto TR crying for Daddy to come home over the radio?); that said, it might not be a power you want to admit to having right away. It could also be that someone else has a power that broadcasts how many people went after their target. Roles that can see who or what targeted someone else aren't uncommon; maybe instead they can reveal the number of targeters to the game at large at the cost of not being able to see/reveal the actual actions or names of the targeting players.


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## Autumn

*Re: Villainous Team Choice Pokémafia - Game Thread*

There's a lot of options but it shouldn't be ruled out entirely, the idea that jack is mafia and got targeted with a block power and idk maybe someone ELSE had the broadcasting power??? just spitballing here, there are way too many options for anything to be conclusively stated.


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## JackPK

*Re: Villainous Team Choice Pokémafia - Game Thread*

I definitely don't have a broadcasting power or anything similar. Also, at the risk of endangering myself by giving away too much, I will say that I targeted myself last night, so that accounts for one of those targets. _If_ we assume that the public infodump is the result of a night action, that would likely account for the other person targeting me.

That's the most I can deduct/assume from the situation. I'm not sure if there's anything else that can be reasonably figured out yet.


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## Autumn

*Re: Villainous Team Choice Pokémafia - Game Thread*

this game is bizarre


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## kyeugh

*Re: Villainous Team Choice Pokémafia - Game Thread*

I'll come clean; i targetted Jack last night.  I won't tell exactly what my role is, but i will say that for some reason, my night's results were targetted on myself for some reason.  (I think this should be testament to my innocence; if i had tried to kill Jack, i'd be dead right now.)  Anyway, Jack's power appears to reverse actions taken on him during the night onto his aggressors, which explains why the results ended up regarding me and not him.

That's not a kill power, to oversimplify it, so i think for right now that should clear his name.

Any other thoughts?


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## Autumn

*Re: Villainous Team Choice Pokémafia - Game Thread*

That means that if both you and Jack are telling the truth (and I'm a little suspicious of... a lot of things... tbh but let's just assume it's all truths for now) then the Mafia didn't target Jack and the reason no one died was due to some _other_ cause.

not that it really leads in any direction... but just sayin


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## Kratos Aurion

*Re: Villainous Team Choice Pokémafia - Game Thread*

Hmmm. Interesting information. Time to spitball again!

Here's what's been said so far:

- Jack can choose to target himself, and can presumably target other people (as implied by what he deduced based on asking MF for clarification—if he could unambiguously only target himself, what reason is there to suspect that a forced night action use would target another player?). He targeted no one on N1 and targeted himself last night. He doesn't have a broadcasting power, but whatever it is it does have something to do with disguises.

- Nira targeted Jack last night, but their action was bounced back to them.

- Lysandre somehow knows that (at least?) two people targeted Jack last night. He didn't seem to hear anyone targeting anyone else on the night Superbird died.

So, what can we guess at based on this?

- If both Jack and Nira are telling the truth and their suspicions are correct, they probably account for the two actions Lysandre overheard (and presumably Lysandre just overheard the initial targeting and not the results of the action, because the _final_ target of Nira's action was Nira). I say "probably" because we don't know for a fact that _only_ two people targeted Jack (although I'd agree it's likely), and we also don't know that Jack targeting himself would register as something Lysandre would hear.

- Also if both are telling the truth, obviously neither used a kill action, otherwise one or both would be dead. I wouldn't say it "clears" either as not mafia, or even that they don't _have_ a kill action—just means they didn't use it, at least not successfully. This means our mafia kill is likely still unaccounted for, yeah. Maf + doc on someone else, maf was roleblocked, delayed kill, outright mafia inaction, etc., etc., we have no way to know, etc..

- BUT if they're telling the truth, their suspicions are correct AND they are the only two targeters (i.e., Jack targeting himself is accounted for in the "two people", Nira counts as the other one even though they ultimately targeted themselves), then Lysandre's announcement didn't come from a targeting action made against Jack—otherwise that would be three people, not two. That means that either Lysandre's announcement is not related to a role at all and is some other feature of the game, or that someone has a general "reveal the number of actions taken" action that blanket reveals the number of actions against everyone.

Of course, if the last one is true then that means that a whole bunch of people didn't use their action last night. Which I guess would account for the no-kill? That's unlikely, though, because I know I used my action, and I sure as heck didn't target Jack unless my action was redirected to him somehow. I could've been roleblocked, I guess, but how likely is it that literally no one else with a targeting power acted/literally everyone else was roleblocked? And wouldn't roleblocking someone have been announced similarly, since they'd need to target someone to block them? So that's probably not how it works.

As a third option, I guess someone could have an "allow Lysandre to hear what's going on" power that targets randomly, and random targets in mafia games are not always considered "targeting actions" for mechanics like this since the user didn't actively choose who they hit.

If Lysandre's announcement is a game feature rather than the result of someone's action, why didn't he hear anything N1? Maybe it's triggered by multiple people targeting one player, and on the first night no two people had the same target? I dunno, I figure it's more likely that someone has some kind of announcement power, but that's also a possibility.

- If either Nira or Jack is telling the truth but is incorrect in their assumptions—Lysandre didn't pick up Jack targeting himself, Nira ultimately hit themselves and thus didn't register as targeting Jack, etc.—theeeeen one or both of the actions Lysandre mentions could be anything, really. Could be ZM's maf + doc suspicion, or like I said, I wouldn't be at all surprised if at least one inspectorish role was curious about Jack's claim.

- If Jack has been honest this whole time and both of their suspicions are correct, I would guess that Jack's power disguises his target as their targeter (e.g., Nira, as Ghetsis, would appear to be affecting Ghetsis rather than Petrel), which is silly flavor speak for "bounces the action back at its user". Although maybe he can choose the disguise his target will wear, e.g. for whatever reason he consciously said "I want to disguise myself as Nira/Ghetsis tonight"? Would that mean he could also say "I want to disguise Altissimo all four of them as Kratos", and anything that affects Alti that night would actually affect me? And what would happen if multiple people hit Jack's target—would all of their actions bounce to whoever the target was disguised as? Or would more silly flavor shenanigans happen and they'd all just bounce back at themselves somehow? I'm sure MF can't answer that, especially because I don't even know if I'm right and don't expect Jack to confirm, but now I'm curious as to how such a role would work...

- If one or both of them are not telling the truth, then, um. I guess they're mafia? Neither has said anything that sounds like a viable reason for an innocent to lie. They've both volunteered information when I honestly don't think any of us were expecting any, so it's not like they partial-claimed to defend themselves or anything, and lies like that would just be misleading to town. BUT of course we don't know whether they're lying or not right now, so we can't act on that. I guess it's reason enough to keep an eye on them if something contradictory shows up, though... at any rate, this would also mean the two actions Lysandre heard could be anything.

Agh. So many possibilities, nothing to actually go on. But! I have an idea. Dunno whether it will actually clear anything up/definitively prove that Jack or Nira is telling the truth or lying, but if nothing else I'm really curious about Kristophsandre, and also I _want people to talk aaaaaaaaa *flails*_.

So let's test this out - did anyone else target Jack last night? Did anyone target him on N1? We just need a yes or no answer, no need to specify who you did target if not him, no need to reveal what your action was. But if anyone else did target him this past night, maybe it might provide insight into the kinds of things Lysandre announces in the future, whether or not he can hear self-targeting, that sort of thing.

For that matter, did anyone target Nira last night? If some kind of switching shenaniganry happened, maybe someone else's action was bounced someplace weird as a result of targeting one or the other?

As I said, I didn't target Jack last night, and I didn't target Nira, so outside of redirection I shouldn't be responsible for anything Lysandre heard. I didn't target Jack on N1, either.


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## Autumn

*Re: Villainous Team Choice Pokémafia - Game Thread*

I didn't target Jack or Nira, and I didn't do so on n1, either.

as for all your textwall, well I read it all and... interesting stuff..... but I've got no idea what to make of it and I doubt at this point that any conclusions can be drawn. I feel like if anyone did something last night which would be relevant to the no-kill thing or the Jack broadcast weirdness, they would have already come forward?? like, Jack and Nira both did but we haven't heard from anyone else. Of course, several players have just not said anything yet (come on for god's sake _you JOIN the mafia game_) but I feel like everyone's had ample time to see it? So like I feel like unless someone steps forward with "well i was GONNA keep this secret bUT" or Jack/Nira clarifies on their role (which... it would make some amount of sense not to if they have told the truth so far) then we're... not gonna get much of anywhere?? i dunno maybe i'm being too quick to dismiss but I actually am having... some trouble figuring out what to make of the past night so like. I just... don't know that I can add a whole lot and if Kratos is still confused well then there's No goddamn chance lmao.


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## Kratos Aurion

*Re: Villainous Team Choice Pokémafia - Game Thread*

Yeah, like I said, there aren't a lot of conclusions to draw, but I dunno, I just feel better actually thinking all the possibilities through rather than just shrugging it off. I like posting my spitballing stuff because you never know when it's going to get someone else to notice or remember something, so why not? And dammit, if no one else is going to attempt to say anything remotely interesting then _someone_ has to.

...and, yeah, they could've come forward before now (although it hasn't been that long since Nira suggested they might be responsible for a target, as opposed to when Jack said he might be, so idk), but sometimes it takes actually demanding a specific answer about something from people to get them to talk at all, so. >| TALK. Look, people who think they have nothing to contribute, I've given you something to contribute! It's not that haaaaaard

Look, I will even be nice and summarize the actual request for those of you who don't have time to read all that: *Simple yes or no answer, did anyone target Jack or Nira last night?*


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## Autumn

*Re: Villainous Team Choice Pokémafia - Game Thread*

psychology shows the best way is actually to address them directly lmao

BUTTERFREE
VIPERA MAGNIFICA
ZAPI
FLORA
I LIEK SCYTHERS
NEGREK
ZERO MOMENT

DID ANY OF YOU TARGET JACK OR NIRA LAST NIGHT YES OR NO


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## Zero Moment

*Re: Villainous Team Choice Pokémafia - Game Thread*

Nope.


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## Negrek

*Re: Villainous Team Choice Pokémafia - Game Thread*







Ha! Only two nights into their crime spree, and already those upstarts are having trouble. It's pathetic what passes for a criminal organization these days. Team Rocket could teach them a thing or two, mark my words.

*Of course I didn't bother Petrel ((JackPK)) last night.* Team Rocket admins are perfectly capable of carrying out their work without my assistance.

*And if I overheard anyone creeping about at night, you can be sure I wouldn't yell about it, either.* In fact, the only people I know who make so much noise ((ILS' role, Alligates' role)) are concerned with broadcasting what happened to them, not what happened to other people.


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## I liek Squirtles

*Re: Villainous Team Choice Pokémafia - Game Thread*

Nope.


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## Vipera Magnifica

*Re: Villainous Team Choice Pokémafia - Game Thread*

My action isn't even a targeting action, and I haven't used it either night, so no.


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## Butterfree

*Re: Villainous Team Choice Pokémafia - Game Thread*

I didn't target either of them, either.

On the other hand, I got an interesting message last night:



> A grunt suddenly approaches you, claiming to have the results of the investigation on Superbird that you called for. You've never met them before, but they're starkly convinced that you are their commander. Despite this rather shoddy display of competence, the dispatch might be of use to you...
> 
> According to the report, Superbird's power(s) were as follows:
> 
> 
> 
> -When used at night, targets a dead player and another, living player (both chosen by the user; living target cannot be oneself). At the end of the night, if this action is successful, the living player will be informed of the dead player's "powers". This "power" is good for only five uses, and expending the final use will cause the user's death.
Click to expand...

This has nothing to do with my role - I was clearly being targeted by someone else. What's more, it _really sounds like_ the role that's being described here _is the role of the person who targeted me_, since the effect (me, a living player, learning the role of Superbird, a dead player) is exactly as described there.

I'm not sure exactly what this means. As far as I can tell, the possibilities are:

1) There simply happen to be two people with this power, Superbird and a mystery person. It's coincidence that Superbird happened to be the first person to die and thus the first dead person the mystery person reported on.
2) The disguise shenanigans with Superbird, however that happened, resulted in Superbird's role being misidentified as the mystery person... presumably by coincidence? I mean, if this is what happened, then this is the mystery person's only power, so there's no way they're responsible for disguising Superbird, at least. The flavor definitely seems to fit - disguising a person as someone else would make it appear as if they had the role of the person they're disguised as. I think that makes more sense than disguises as a convoluted redirection thing, flavor-wise; if this is a game heavy on inspectionish roles, then disguises being a thing that mixes them up makes sense as an element of the game (and means any inspectors might want to be slightly wary).
3) The mafia is trying to mess with me. Presumably this initial message would be sent in the hope that I'd assume it's genuine because it describes a role that sounds self-consistent, and then they're planning to continue to send me misleading information. I'm not really sure to what end they'd be doing that, though; this supposedly targets _dead_ players, and the mafia trying to mislead us about what roles dead players had doesn't sound all that useful to them, compared to the many more useful things they could be doing if they had the power to send misleading messages like this? I'd definitely lean towards this being genuine.

So, all in all I'm leaning towards explanation 2. I'm assuming that if a person is disguised when they die, they remain disguised for the purposes of these sorts of night actions - otherwise somebody would have had to disguise the dead Superbird again last night by coincidence, which would be pretty weird.

Now, mystery person could continue to perform these role inspections when people die, but the question is, do we actually want that information to be public? Does publishing the roles of dead players help the town more than the mafia? I'm not entirely sure. Something we might want to discuss.


----------



## Autumn

*Re: Villainous Team Choice Pokémafia - Game Thread*

4. Another person's power involves taking the power of a dead player (or perhaps they just automatically assume the power of the first dead player) and therefore they ended up as Superbird. Might explain some of the disguise shenanigans?


----------



## Zapi

*Re: Villainous Team Choice Pokémafia - Game Thread*

Okay sorry this is so late, school just started back up for me so I've been a bit busier than usual. (Also I have terrible memory and I always forget to save PMs to my sent items folder so... I wanted to make sure I was actually remembering what I did last night phase correctly lol)

Anyway, I have the power to broadcast the number of people who targeted a user of my choice, and last night I targeted Nira. I'm guessing it was redirected to Jack because he swapped himself with Nira or something? But yeah, that's where the broadcast came from (and I didn't target anyone N0, which is why we didn't get any similar information from Lysandre in his first post)

I have no idea what's going on with this whole Superbird business and I'm too tired to attempt to make any more sense of it, but. To answer Butterfree's last question, I don't really see making the abilities of dead players public as being particularly beneficial to _either_ side... The only thing it really tells us is that it's unlikely that any remaining players have that exact same ability, but considering how unique a lot of the powers this game seem to be so far, that's... not all that helpful? But I guess it doesn't really hurt, either. I dunno.


----------



## JackPK

*Re: Villainous Team Choice Pokémafia - Game Thread*



Zapi said:


> Anyway, I have the power to broadcast the number of people who targeted a user of my choice, and last night I targeted Nira. I'm guessing it was redirected to Jack because he swapped himself with Nira or something?


Well, I was hoping to get at least another night of everybody suspecting that I bounce things back, so the Mafia would avoid me and I could try to figure out a  more strategic use of my power, but since this info's out in the open now, I may as well come clean. You're exactly right — I pick two targets (self-targeting permitted) and swap everything that happens to the two of them overnight. The first night, I didn't target anybody, and the second night, I swapped myself and Nira.

Now that my power's known publicly, though, trying to do anything useful with it has a decent chance of the scum being able to outpredict me, so instead I'm just going to use an RNG to pick swaps, unless anybody has suggestions for better ways for me to use my power.


----------



## Kratos Aurion

*Re: Villainous Team Choice Pokémafia - Game Thread*

Well... that actually resulted in more information than I thought. Sorry that ended up outing you all the way, Jack, although it is kinda nice to know what all that nonsense was about. (Doesn't really clear up whether self-targeting or redirected actions are announced, but there's no point beating a dead horse; we'll just have to see what happens and whether anything else useful is revealed when Zapi acts in the future.) Defaulting to RNGing is kinda scary, but I agree that I can't think of anything better to do... not that I can think of much of anything anyway, since it's not like there's anyone specific to protect based on what we know other than yourself or just anyone you think is useful. Unless you've got some kind of idea who a doctor or someone might be and don't think the mafia would know yet, but obviously you should keep that to yourself, etc..

As for whether the dead rolecop whatever thing's information is more useful to town or mafia... hm. That would probably depend on the role that actually got inspected. Like, it'd be a pretty bad idea to announce that a doctor or similar is dead, because it lets the mafia know that there's one less healer they need to worry about, and same goes for most other traditional town power roles, but as has been said before there are probably a lot of shenanigans going on and maybe something that actually should be revealed will come up. I guess, assuming the information is true and not some kind of mafia ruse, it would be best if you/whoever else might receive the rolecop info just used their best judgement. Might also be handy information to hang onto to counterclaim in the deceased's place—someone says "hey don't lynch me i'm the doctor", someone else says "uh no the rolecop told me so-and-so-dead-guy was a doctor and i doubt there are two", etc., etc..

At the end of the day, though, I don't think we're actually any closer to any useful information to act on right now? Some confusion has been sorted out, but that's about it. For now I'm pretty confident in believing all three people who've claimed/partially claimed, no one else stands out as suspicious to me, and now that pretty much everyone has posted (no, seriously, I really appreciate that, I know I whine about it a lot but I just like it when people talk ;-; ) there's not much call for an immediate inactive lynch. I guess we've still got a little time for something interesting to happen before we resort to abstaining, but I dunno...


----------



## M&F

*Re: Villainous Team Choice Pokémafia - Game Thread*

*24-hour time extension.*


----------



## Autumn

*Re: Villainous Team Choice Pokémafia - Game Thread*

We're so good at keeping up with this. Anyone else have anything to say or should we just abstain?


----------



## kyeugh

*Re: Villainous Team Choice Pokémafia - Game Thread*

I still think we should *abstain*.


----------



## JackPK

*Re: Villainous Team Choice Pokémafia - Game Thread*

I guess *abstaining*'s fine.


----------



## Zapi

*Re: Villainous Team Choice Pokémafia - Game Thread*

*abstain*ing sounds good to me, too.


----------



## M&F

*Re: Villainous Team Choice Pokémafia - Game Thread*

*Looker's daily report*

I have enacted my brillant plan to show the prisoners that they should be wearing the prison uniform! However, since I am wearing the uniform myself and the warden believes that I "look shady", I am not being allowed outside of the complex. That is fine. I may have left at home all of the documents that prove that I am an International Police officer, since I am going undercover -- as I am always undercover, even when the criminals have already been caught -- but surely, they will understand my claims when I prove to them my wit and my abilities.

For example, the murder last night was committed by one... eh? There was no murder last night?

*No one was lynched.

72 hours for night actions.*


----------



## Autumn

*Re: Villainous Team Choice Pokémafia - Game Thread*

looker dabes

no i am not going to listen to ur stupid night rules. u know me.


----------



## M&F

*Re: Villainous Team Choice Pokémafia - Game Thread*

*Ninth notch on Lysandre's cell wall.*

With each passing moment, the overall beauty in this establishment decays. I am beginning to experience nightmares in which my appearance becomes similar to that Wulfric of Snowbelle City. _Brrrrrrrrrrr._ To keep my mind focused away from this atrocity, I must focus on the spiritual ugliness that infests this place, rather than the physical one.

And even if I were not willingly throwing myself body and soul into this distraction, it would be impossible to ignore the ongoings. After all, somebody managed to overpower *Gonzap* in direct physical combat. I haven't seen for myself what the man is capable of, but the inmates are saying that no one or two or three or four people could have brought a juggernaut of his caliber down alone. Then again, it seems that he went into death with a serene expression on his face -- perhaps he had merely accepted his fate and did not fight back. If he had, the perpretator would likely have been dealt a number of incriminating injuries; alas, it seems that this assailant's identity will remain a mystery for the time being.

I am also told that the newly-deceased's affiliation in the outside was to one Team Snagem. If I remember correctly... Petty crooks, the lot of them. No philosophy, no aim, only pointless thievery. Taking and taking and taking only for themselves, giving nothing back. Completely unlike the just battles that I had tried to fight while I was still free. It pains me to be considered an equal to such scum... At least, he and his ugly mug are no longer, and the overall beauty of this compound rises just slightly. Perhaps there is hope for beauty, after a-

Gnnrk! How long? How long must the personnel responsible for sanitation around here neglect the glass shards in this cell? This is the fourth wound to my sole within a mere day!!

*Zero Moment, the Gonzap, is dead. He was Innocent.

72 hours for discussion.*


----------



## JackPK

*Re: Villainous Team Choice Pokémafia - Game Thread*

As promised, I randomized my action and swapped ILS and Flora.

Gonzap seemed to accept his fate and not fight back, and thus had no incriminating injuries? I'm not sure what to make of that. My first instinct was a traitor-like role, but that typically would flip as scum, wouldn't it? Other than that possibility, perhaps the kill was in some way flavored as psychic/mental-based? Or maybe Gonzap was, like, a bulletproof, or got healed or something, and the kill was a strongman-like kill? (although now that I think about it, that would probably involve a lot of incriminating injuries, actually) Or, like, maybe Gonzap was a bodyguard and died protecting somebody else? Lots of possibilities off the top of my head, none of which really quite fit all that well. :/


----------



## Autumn

*Re: Villainous Team Choice Pokémafia - Game Thread*



JackPK said:


> As promised, I randomized my action and swapped ILS and Flora.
> 
> Gonzap seemed to accept his fate and not fight back, and thus had no incriminating injuries? I'm not sure what to make of that. My first instinct was a traitor-like role, but that typically would flip as scum, wouldn't it? Other than that possibility, perhaps the kill was in some way flavored as psychic/mental-based? Or maybe Gonzap was, like, a bulletproof, or got healed or something, and the kill was a strongman-like kill? (although now that I think about it, that would probably involve a lot of incriminating injuries, actually) Or, like, maybe Gonzap was a bodyguard and died protecting somebody else? Lots of possibilities off the top of my head, none of which really quite fit all that well. :/


It could also be a sign that nothing funky happened in the night - not like last night - or that ZM in particular couldn't have done anything about it (or maybe could have, but chose not to).

Idk - it's been forever since I've been in an MF mafia but part of me thinks we're reading too much into it?


----------



## Vipera Magnifica

*Re: Villainous Team Choice Pokémafia - Game Thread*

Okay I'm just gonna spill my role because I still haven't figured out exactly what it's useful for, and I can probably be more helpful if I make it public knowledge. MF explained my role as being a "Switch". At any point, I can switch on/off: voting/killing actions, and/or disruptive actions. If I switch off voting/killing actions, all the vigs, CPR doctors, vote thieves, and etc. have their actions blocked. If I switch off disruptive actions, roleblockers, redirectors, framers, and other disruptive actions will be blocked. I can even switch both off at the same time. Here's the catch: Only innocent players are affected by these switches. I can't just turn off the killing switch and prevent the mafia from ever killing (although that would be kind of hilarious).

Because of the very specific way this role affects the game, I just chose not to use it the first two nights. This last night, though, I switched off disruptive actions to see what would happen. Therefore, JackPK's action shouldn't have worked.

If you can think of any creative ways for me to use this power, let me know. If you want me to verify the role just try to vig kill me tonight, and I'll switch off the killing switch. Killswitch Disengage.


----------



## JackPK

*Re: Villainous Team Choice Pokémafia - Game Thread*



Vipera Magnifica said:


> If I switch off voting/killing actions, all the vigs, CPR doctors, vote thieves, and etc. have their actions blocked. If I switch off disruptive actions, roleblockers, redirectors, framers, and other disruptive actions will be blocked.


I wonder, were all of those examples listed in your role PM? Because if so, it may or may not be a stretch to assume that all of those examples exist as roles in this game.

Although in a MF game, who knows.


----------



## Vipera Magnifica

*Re: Villainous Team Choice Pokémafia - Game Thread*



JackPK said:


> I wonder, were all of those examples listed in your role PM? Because if so, it may or may not be a stretch to assume that all of those examples exist as roles in this game.
> 
> Although in a MF game, who knows.


They were. Well, they weren't in the _original_ PM, but when I didn't understand what the role meant and had to ask MF to elaborate, those were the examples he gave. The fact that my role exists in this game is probably evidence enough that a few of those roles are present.


----------



## Autumn

*Re: Villainous Team Choice Pokémafia - Game Thread*

general announcement - i'll be on the road most of the day tomorrow and likely won't be spending too much time on the interwebs. Then on friday and saturday i'll be v busy and saturday i'll be driving home. I'll post what I can, but just wanted to say


----------



## JackPK

*Re: Villainous Team Choice Pokémafia - Game Thread*

Well, since this is now 50+ posts and nobody seems to have made a summary, I guess I will

(I'm assuming the first night is labeled N0, then we go on to D1, N1, and so forth... but some people seem to be labeling the first night as N1, so if there are any inconsistencies based on that, I duly apologize)

Roles claimed in signup thread:
Superbird — Courtney of Team Magma

VM — Cyrus of Team Galactic

Flora — Lovrina of Cipher

ILS — Gengar of Team Meanies _or_ Ice of Team Dim Sun, hasn't claimed which one MF settled on

Butterfree — N of Team Plasma

Nira — Ghetsis of Team Plasma

Negrek — Giovanni of Team Rocket

Zapi — Archie of Team Aqua, claims he's clearly the ORAS incarnation

Kratos Aurion — Wes, formerly of Team Snagem

JackPK — Team Rocket's Meowth _or_ Petrel of Team Rocket, claims MF settled on Petrel

Zero Moment — Gonzap of Team Snagem

Altissimo — a bunch of possibilities, claims MF settled on all four of the Go-Rock Quads​
Claims and other evidence from game thread:
Superbird — died N0, flipped innocent

VM — can switch on/off either killing/voting actions and/or disruptive actions, but only affects innocents. Didn't do anything N0 or N1. Turned off disruptive actions N2.

Flora —

ILS — answered "nope" to question of whether people targeted Jack or Nira N0 or N1; others had already answered with only partial information, so it's unclear exactly how much ILS is saying

Butterfree — didn't target JackPK or Nira (presumably on both N0 and N1). Says she got a report N1 claiming that Superbird's power was to inform a living player of a dead player's powers.

Nira — not a kill power. Targeted JackPK N1 but got results regarding themself.

Negrek — not a broadcasting power. Didn't target JackPK N1.

Zapi — can broadcast the number of people who target a user of their choice. Didn't do anything N0; targeted JackPK N1.

Kratos Aurion — says their role fits Wes well, but not in a way they expected. Didn't target JackPK N0. Didn't target JackPK or Nira N1.

JackPK — can swap two targets during the night. Didn't do anything N0; swapped self and Nira N1; swapped ILS and Flora N2.

Zero Moment — didn't target JackPK or Nira N0. died N2, flipped innocent.

Altissimo — didn't target JackPK or Nira N0 or N1.​
Events of each phase:
N0 — Superbird (Courtney) died, flipped innocent

D1 — no lynch

N1 — no death, public note that two people targeted JackPK

D2 — no lynch

N2 — Zero Moment (Gonzap) died, flipped innocent​
I have a few thoughts but I'm gonna put them in a subsequent post bc I'm afraid people will kinda just speed read through this list and not notice anything I put down here at the bottom


----------



## JackPK

*Re: Villainous Team Choice Pokémafia - Game Thread*

I LIEK SCYTHERS, are you Gengar or Ice? Not that this is important at all; it's just one of the few empty spaces in my list up above, lol

FLORA, you haven't really spoken and you're the only one who hasn't made a claim whatsoever. Have anything you want to share?

ZAPI, there was no broadcast today. Did you refrain from using your power, or are we to assume it got turned off as a result of VM's switch?

And finally, did anyone get a report like the one Butterfree got yesterday? If you think it's in the innocents' best interests not to publicize the information in the report, then fine, but at least let us know if you received a report at all, please.

I also notice Altissimo has always been the first one to launch the abstain train each day so far. I'm really not suspicious yet, _but_ abstaining is generally more beneficial to scum than random lynching, so that's just something to think about in the future.


----------



## Autumn

*Re: Villainous Team Choice Pokémafia - Game Thread*



JackPK said:


> I also notice Altissimo has always been the first one to launch the abstain train each day so far. I'm really not suspicious yet, _but_ abstaining is generally more beneficial to scum than random lynching, so that's just something to think about in the future.


Mostly I do it because discussion tapers off after a while, nobody says anything as far as lynching or not lynchinc goes and i'm sick of mafias just up and dying because people don't actually _go anywhere_ during the day phase. I join these games to play and I would appreciate it if others would _do the same._


----------



## JackPK

*Re: Villainous Team Choice Pokémafia - Game Thread*



Altissimo said:


> Mostly I do it because discussion tapers off after a while, nobody says anything as far as lynching or not lynchinc goes and i'm sick of mafias just up and dying because people don't actually _go anywhere_ during the day phase. I join these games to play and I would appreciate it if others would _do the same._


Absolutely a fair point.

On the topic of lynching vs abstaining, if we assume MF started with roughly a typical amount of scum and if we assume that both of the deathflips have been correct, then right now we're sitting at probably 3 or 4 scum out of 10 remaining players, and that ratio is only going to get worse for us if we keep abstaining.

I'm not particularly suspicious of any specific person yet, but the fact of the matter is that (if the above assumptions are correct, and if the scum successfully kill each night from now on) we're only two to four abstains away from a scum win.

Abstaining is definitely better than a game dwindling and dying, but I think lynching is getting more and more likely to be better than abstaining.


----------



## Butterfree

*Re: Villainous Team Choice Pokémafia - Game Thread*



JackPK said:


> And finally, did anyone get a report like the one Butterfree got yesterday? If you think it's in the innocents' best interests not to publicize the information in the report, then fine, but at least let us know if you received a report at all, please.


I didn't get one, at least, but... that really makes sense, because last night only Superbird had died, so there was nobody new for them to target. I'd expect them to target Zero Moment tonight.

Iiii've actually been getting the biggest mafia vibes off Altissimo this game for some reason. It's purely a vague hunch about the way she's been talking and acting in the thread that I couldn't even properly explain, so you should probably not take it too seriously, buuuut last time I had these sorts of mafia vibes about somebody in a mafia game I turned out to be totally correct, so I can't help but be a bit wary.

So if we want to lynch today, and assuming we don't get any more information to point us towards somebody, I'd vote Altissimo.


----------



## Flora

*Re: Villainous Team Choice Pokémafia - Game Thread*



JackPK said:


> FLORA, you haven't really spoken and you're the only one who hasn't made a claim whatsoever. Have anything you want to share?


Yeah sorry about my quietness; my Tuesdays and Thursdays are regularly eaten by my capstone class.

My role is...weird. Basically I'm vigilante but if I hit a Mafia member I _fucking die_ so I've been abstaining nightly because i can't figure out a scenario where that's worth it.

As for altissimo, she generally has a tendency to shitpost in mafia games (or just generally post at night/when dead), so as far as I can tell her posting peculiarities aren't necessarily mafia-coded. Doesn't mean she's innocent, mind you, but that's just my take on the scenario.


----------



## Zapi

*Re: Villainous Team Choice Pokémafia - Game Thread*

Sorry again for lateness, school keeps getting in the way. I'll try to post more often from now on though



JackPK said:


> Zapi — can broadcast the number of people who target a user of their choice. Didn't do anything N0; targeted JackPK N1.


As I said before, I actually targeted Nira N1 and I'm assuming it was redirected to you. Just wanted to clarify.



JackPK said:


> ZAPI, there was no broadcast today. Did you refrain from using your power, or are we to assume it got turned off as a result of VM's switch?


I did use my power last night (on Negrek, as chosen by the almighty RNG), but I'm guessing it didn't go through because of either VM's switch or someone roleblocking me or something. (On that note, if anyone has anyone specific they want me to try to broadcast, let me know!)

Re: Butterfree's post, is Altissimo's behavior in this game any different from how she usually is in mafia games? I don't think I've been in enough mafia games with her to make a sound judgment, but I guess if no one else has any better ideas...?

Oh and I haven't gotten any PMs similar to the one Butterfree posted before, either, but as Butterfree said, that's probably because no one else died N1/D2.


----------



## Autumn

*Re: Villainous Team Choice Pokémafia - Game Thread*



Butterfree said:


> I didn't get one, at least, but... that really makes sense, because last night only Superbird had died, so there was nobody new for them to target. I'd expect them to target Zero Moment tonight.
> 
> Iiii've actually been getting the biggest mafia vibes off Altissimo this game for some reason. It's purely a vague hunch about the way she's been talking and acting in the thread that I couldn't even properly explain, so you should probably not take it too seriously, buuuut last time I had these sorts of mafia vibes about somebody in a mafia game I turned out to be totally correct, so I can't help but be a bit wary.
> 
> So if we want to lynch today, and assuming we don't get any more information to point us towards somebody, I'd vote Altissimo.


I may as well address your post while I can - since like I said I'll be away a lot tomorrow.

I... don't know that I can really take your assessment of my posting habits in this game at face value. Like obviously not because I'm the one being accused here, but... you admitted that you can't even explain the vibes you're getting. So I don't really know what I'm supposed to be getting out of this... like if you can't explain why _my_ posts in _this_ game are suspect, then how do I know you even have a reason to think I'm suspicious? Does that make sense?

If I've been posting any differently than normal, the most I can say is that it's been a while since I've been in a Mafia and I'm trying to be enthusiastic because _so many of the previous Mafias_ have just died and it's very disappointing. I know I've shitpost and generally been cryptic, but like Flora said, I do that a lot, not just in this game.


----------



## Zapi

*Re: Villainous Team Choice Pokémafia - Game Thread*



Flora said:


> As for altissimo, she generally has a tendency to shitpost in mafia games (or just generally post at night/when dead), so as far as I can tell her posting peculiarities aren't necessarily mafia-coded. Doesn't mean she's innocent, mind you, but that's just my take on the scenario.


... didn't see this before I posted, whoops. I still don't think I know enough about her to make a sound judgment myself though

(Also, has not being able to edit your own posts always been a thing in mafia threads??)


----------



## Negrek

*Re: Villainous Team Choice Pokémafia - Game Thread*



			
				Vipera Magnifica said:
			
		

> Okay I'm just gonna spill my role because I still haven't figured out exactly what it's useful for, and I can probably be more helpful if I make it public knowledge. MF explained my role as being a "Switch". At any point, I can switch on/off: voting/killing actions, and/or disruptive actions. If I switch off voting/killing actions, all the vigs, CPR doctors, vote thieves, and etc. have their actions blocked. If I switch off disruptive actions, roleblockers, redirectors, framers, and other disruptive actions will be blocked. I can even switch both off at the same time. Here's the catch: Only innocent players are affected by these switches. I can't just turn off the killing switch and prevent the mafia from ever killing (although that would be kind of hilarious).


I gotta say, this sounds like kind of the worst role ever? It would be very useful as a scum role, but I'm not seeing much way that it would be anything other than harmful to Town, considering that it can only work against innocent players. Like maybe if you had an axe-crazy vig you really want to shut down, but other than that... seriously?

Anyway, I do think we should kill someone today. There are ten players left, I'm innocent, and I'm feeling fairly confident JackPK, Nira, and possibly Zapi are innocent. Given 2-4 scum players out of the remaining six, we'd have at least a 33% chance of hitting a scum player even if we randlynched.

I haven't gotten any particular mafia vibes off of Altissimo, and tbh I'd feel kind of bad lynching her given that she's going to be away and I know from experience how shitty it is to get lynched when you're not around to be able to say anything. Haven't got any particular reason to believe she's innocent either, though.

I did not receive any notes from beyond the grave last night, but as has been pointed out I wouldn't have expected to because nobody died the previous night/day.


----------



## Negrek

*Re: Villainous Team Choice Pokémafia - Game Thread*



			
				Flora said:
			
		

> My role is...weird. Basically I'm vigilante but if I hit a Mafia member I fucking die so I've been abstaining nightly because i can't figure out a scenario where that's worth it.


That's another strange one, yeah. Given that iirc almost nobody ever uses their vig powers in MF's games, it seems weird that he'd then give you one _with downside_ unless you have some additional ability or there's some sort of weird interaction with another role. Then again, the one game where I did get a vig ability my role was set up in such a way that it was actually really a bad idea to use it (I did anyway and it was glorious).



> I did use my power last night (on Negrek, as chosen by the almighty RNG), but I'm guessing it didn't go through because of either VM's switch or someone roleblocking me or something. (On that note, if anyone has anyone specific they want me to try to broadcast, let me know!)


Wouldn't it more likely mean that nobody (besides you) targetted me last night?



			
				JackPK said:
			
		

> (Also, has not being able to edit your own posts always been a thing in mafia threads??)


It was added at some point, but I don't remember when.


----------



## I liek Squirtles

*Re: Villainous Team Choice Pokémafia - Game Thread*

My role is basically recruiting people into a separate thread (the people I choose can talk to me and each other whenever). It has no other end goal other than just... getting people all together into a thread and making them talk. First I used it on Altissimo, and then on Kratos, but last night I didn't use it. 

There's just one condition: if I die, it gets disbanded. 

From the little discussion there has been, Alti comes off as innocent. I honestly can't say about Kratos.


----------



## Negrek

*Re: Villainous Team Choice Pokémafia - Game Thread*

Why didn't you use it last night?


----------



## Zapi

*Re: Villainous Team Choice Pokémafia - Game Thread*



Negrek said:


> Wouldn't it more likely mean that nobody (besides you) targetted me last night?


I assumed my power counts myself as one of the targeters, since my role PM didn't specify otherwise, but I suppose that's a possibility as well. I'll have to ask MF for clarification.



Negrek said:


> It was added at some point, but I don't remember when.


it might've been sometime in the years I was away then. Or it might have been there since I joined, knowing my horrible memory that's always possibility lol


----------



## I liek Squirtles

*Re: Villainous Team Choice Pokémafia - Game Thread*



Negrek said:


> Why didn't you use it last night?


Forgot to send it in (schoolwork and whatnot).


----------



## Negrek

*Re: Villainous Team Choice Pokémafia - Game Thread*

I was figuring it didn't count you, based on the scenario that occurred the other night (if we have anything like an accurate picture of it): your action was redirected to JackPK, who was targeted by Nira and also himself, and the readout was two actions, whereas if yours counted I would expect three.

Best to ask, though! If it turns out your own action does count, that makes that same scenario the night before last even more interesting.


----------



## JackPK

*Re: Villainous Team Choice Pokémafia - Game Thread*



I liek Scythers said:


> My role is basically recruiting people into a separate thread (the people I choose can talk to me and each other whenever). It has no other end goal other than just... getting people all together into a thread and making them talk. First I used it on Altissimo, and then on Kratos, but last night I didn't use it.
> 
> There's just one condition: if I die, it gets disbanded.
> 
> From the little discussion there has been, Alti comes off as innocent. I honestly can't say about Kratos.





Negrek said:


> Why didn't you use it last night?





I liek Scythers said:


> Forgot to send it in (schoolwork and whatnot).


Easy enough for us to semi-verify this claim: ILS inducts someone tonight. Then tomorrow, whoever gets inducted can confirm, or if nobody confirms we can assume ILS is lying.

(Three people already in the group isn't significantly less than the number of scum I would expect us to have, so if he's faking the claim and has named his mafia buddies to corroborate his story, it'll be pretty clear either tomorrow or the next day when people stop getting inducted. That'd be a pretty sloppy way for the scum faction to lose, though, so I doubt ILS is pulling that gambit. Something to keep in mind just in case, though.)

I'd also really love to hear from Altissimo and Kratos about this thread and what their impressions are of each other's and ILS's possible innocence/scumminess.



Negrek said:


> Anyway, I do think we should kill someone today. There are ten players left, I'm innocent, and I'm feeling fairly confident JackPK, Nira, and possibly Zapi are innocent. Given 2-4 scum players out of the remaining six, we'd have at least a 33% chance of hitting a scum player even if we randlynched.
> 
> I haven't gotten any particular mafia vibes off of Altissimo, and tbh I'd feel kind of bad lynching her given that she's going to be away and I know from experience how shitty it is to get lynched when you're not around to be able to say anything. Haven't got any particular reason to believe she's innocent either, though.


Honestly, with how quick Flora was to defend Altissimo, I would somewhat suspect one of them IF the other flips mafia eventually. But honestly I'm not getting mafia vibes from them, either.

If we exclude — just for now — me, Nira and Zapi on grounds of having plausible claims, and ILS, Altissimo and Kratos on grounds that if they're playing a gambit then it'll be easily outed before long, then that leaves VM, Flora, Butterfree and Negrek as a shortlist, which could give us as much as a 50-50 shot depending on how many scum are in the game and whether the separate-thread group are all innocent, all mafia, or a mixed bag.

Anybody have any particular hunch between VM, Flora, Butterfree and Negrek? Or does anybody have a particular hunch for someone else who I didn't list? Or does anybody have any holes to poke in my logic? (please point them out if you see them, I have no idea how much sense I'm making)


----------



## Autumn

*Re: Villainous Team Choice Pokémafia - Game Thread*



JackPK said:


> I'd also really love to hear from Altissimo and Kratos about this thread and what their impressions are of each other's and ILS's possible innocence/scumminess.


The fact that ILS' power is known to Kratos and myself by definition means it like, can't be a lying roleclaim unless you choose to disbelieve both ILS and myself. But uh I can corroborate that that's what ILS' power does. It's not strictly tied to the Mafia, and of course ILS told me that he was an Innocent, but honestly, I could see it going either way, being beneficial to mafia and innocents. And I wouldn't put it past MF to have it be a Mafia role, honestly, considering the intricacy and depth that we've seen out of this game alone so far. But ILS' actual conduct in the thread doesn't strike me as too out of place. Kratos too seems trustworthy - and has certainly provided a shitton of helpful information! - though then again, I've never been the best at identifying mafia on my own unless they're just shitty players, haha.



> Anybody have any particular hunch between VM, Flora, Butterfree and Negrek? Or does anybody have a particular hunch for someone else who I didn't list? Or does anybody have any holes to poke in my logic? (please point them out if you see them, I have no idea how much sense I'm making)


VM's role seems... a bit ridiculous. Like, I could see it working in a bastard mafia, but not necessarily here where roles are a bit more standardized, and the fact that he claimed doesn't necessarily mean he's not Mafia. As Negrek pointed out, a role like that seems to benefit Mafia more than Innocents if there's not, like, an axe-happy vig (which, if Flora's claim is correct - again, that's an if - isn't the case, and either way the number of deaths doesn't support an axe-happy vig), and so like I could totally see it being a legit roleclaim, but one that comes from the Mafia side, or even just a false roleclaim in general. I dunno. It's just like, of all the claims that have been made, that one seems... extra crazy.

I'm not really leaning one way or another yet, just pointing out things as I see them.


----------



## Negrek

*Re: Villainous Team Choice Pokémafia - Game Thread*



			
				JackPK said:
			
		

> Anybody have any particular hunch between VM, Flora, Butterfree and Negrek? Or does anybody have a particular hunch for someone else who I didn't list? Or does anybody have any holes to poke in my logic? (please point them out if you see them, I have no idea how much sense I'm making)


Put Altissimo and Kratos back on the suspects list--confirming that ILS' power works as he says it does (which absolutely we should do, as you outlined) says absolutely nothing about whether or not those two are scum.



> VM's role seems... a bit ridiculous. Like, I could see it working in a bastard mafia, but not necessarily here where roles are a bit more standardized, and the fact that he claimed doesn't necessarily mean he's not Mafia. As Negrek pointed out, a role like that seems to benefit Mafia more than Innocents if there's not, like, an axe-happy vig (which, if Flora's claim is correct - again, that's an if - isn't the case, and either way the number of deaths doesn't support an axe-happy vig), and so like I could totally see it being a legit roleclaim, but one that comes from the Mafia side, or even just a false roleclaim in general. I dunno. It's just like, of all the claims that have been made, that one seems... extra crazy.


In fairness I don't think it would make a legit Mafia claim, either, simply because actually having that role on the Mafia side would be _so ridiculously OP_. Like, there appears to be no restriction on how often you can use it and how many things you can turn off at once, so... as Mafia, you could just go "okay no voting bullshit no roleblocking no vig kills, done" and leave them off every night and depending on how roles are distributed amongst the innocent faction, that potentially shuts down a large portion of the Town's ability to fight back at night. Like, if you were Mafia, you would have to be crazy not to be using that all the time unless there was some restriction/downside. It looks as though role-switching happened during N1 at least, so if in fact someone had the power to stop that, they weren't doing so at that time.


----------



## Autumn

*Re: Villainous Team Choice Pokémafia - Game Thread*



Negrek said:


> In fairness I don't think it would make a legit Mafia claim, either, simply because actually having that role on the Mafia side would be _so ridiculously OP_. Like, there appears to be no restriction on how often you can use it and how many things you can turn off at once, so... as Mafia, you could just go "okay no voting bullshit no roleblocking no vig kills, done" and leave them off every night and depending on how roles are distributed amongst the innocent faction, that potentially shuts down a large portion of the Town's ability to fight back at night. Like, if you were Mafia, you would have to be crazy not to be using that all the time unless there was some restriction/downside. It looks as though role-switching happened during N1 at least, so if in fact someone had the power to stop that, they weren't doing so at that time.


Point taken. I hadn't really thought hard enough about how that would have worked.


----------



## Kratos Aurion

*Re: Villainous Team Choice Pokémafia - Game Thread*

People are talking! And I didn't even have to yell or threaten fatherly disappointment this time! :D!!!!

I'll be fair and say that it's entirely possible that ILS's role is anti-town. Superbird and I were mafia together in E4 Choice Mafia, and Superbird's additional, non-mafkill power allowed him to communicate privately with other players. In Superbird's case I don't think his contactees could speak with _one another_, though, so there wouldn't have been anything quicktopic-like. I don't know if the fact that ILS's power lets other players speak with one another makes it more or less likely to be town. I'd hazard a guess that it is, but I can't base that on anything solid.

And yes, ILS could be innocent and have had the bad luck to hit one or more mafia, or could be mafia who chose to recruit one or more of his partners just to make things more convincing to any innocents he may try to fool later. Both of those are more likely than ILS making such a silly gambit if all of us are communicating mafiosi. I'm not defaulting to trusting either of them, and I'm well aware that I haven't made a proper claim or done much of anything other than talk in circles, so it's perfectly reasonable to keep me on a suspect list. (I mean, _I_ know I'm not mafia, of course, but while I'm in the business of making meaningless statements I should also mention that I'm an astronaut and own a pet unicorn, etc., etc..)

ILS is Gengar, by the way, not Ice.

That said, I have no particular opinion about ILS himself either way. We haven't really said much in that thread, tbh. Hasn't been much to talk about until today! I was recruited second, so I don't know if he and Alti spoke via PM or some other means before that; I assume so, given that Alti said he explicitly told her he was innocent and I don't see that in the quicktopic. (Doesn't make the statement meaningful, just means there was probably discussion I wasn't privy to.)

Alti... eh, I don't really know about her, either. I can't make much of an argument about whether her behavior is typical since I've only been in one game with her recently iirc. I appreciate that she's making an effort to be talkative and keep the game moving, especially outside the joking around, but that doesn't say much IMO. I would be a tad suspicious of frequently starting the abstain train, but that's really more of an issue when people _are_ talking than when they aren't. Presumably a day with no one voting anything at all would default to no lynch anyway, and if no one's talking and it happens when MF is close to ending the day it doesn't seem like an attempt to stifle discussion or somesuch.


re: VM: I agree that that's a really bizarre power with few obvious benefits to town; the only cited examples that sound likely to be scummy IMO are the roleblocker, the framer and the vote thief, and only the roleblocker strikes me as particularly dangerous out of those. And yeah, now Negrek mentions it, it would definitely be completely broken as mafia, so it's either a truthful but baffling innocent claim or an outright lie. I'm trying to think about why someone might make up a role that potentially unhelpful as a false claim. You'd assume that scum would make a more useful/traditional fakeclaim, but this early on there's a high risk of counterclaim, so making up a role isn't a bad idea. It's possible he went too far in the other direction and made it too unusual, though. It is also kinda convenient that it's a role that mafia would see no immediate reason to kill off, so him staying alive later in the game could easily be explained as not being worth a nightkill as opposed to him being mafia and therefore not a target in the first place.

If he is innocent then it does seem like the sort of role you might as well ask for advice about before acting... so it's just a question of how willing we are to believe that such an outlandish, mostly-detrimental role would exist. I am tempted to see if I can come up with uses for it, if only because it sounds like a fun exercise, but logically there's not much point because we don't know for a fact which potentially-blockable roles are in the game to begin with. 

For that matter... only two claimed roles match the examples listed (Flora/vig, Jack/redirector), and the other claimed roles (VM's, if we believe him; ILS/mason; Zapi/broadcaster; Superbird/rolecop; ???/rolethief, since someone else is running around with Superbird's power now) do not, and don't seem like they'd be switchable. In total that's seven roles, or just over half this game's players. So, another question: out of the remaining five roles, how likely is it that one or more of them match the cited examples? How likely is it that they're some other kind of role that would be affected by such a switch? I guess it's not unreasonable that the mafia might have roleblocking, vote stealing and framing in addition to their nightkill, and given that a lot of people are claiming weird roles or roles with drawbacks, I don't see why we wouldn't have a CPR doctor instead of a more reliable one. I'm starting to get tired now and can't decide whether that actually says anything or remember why I went off on this jag in the first place, but idk, maybe it'll be interesting again when I'm more awake.

The only other reason I can think of to include such a role as an innocent is to balance out a town that is otherwise overpowered, kinda like a miller in a more traditional game but with a useless/dangerous power as opposed to a misleading flip.


re: Flora: Also strange. Normally vigs with restrictions like that die if they hit a townie, not a mafioso, and there are ways to make vigkills one-shot without effectively punishing them for getting it right. I guess it's a little like a terrorist, but I'm not really sure what to make of it. It seems less overtly convenient/bizarre than VM's claim, so ultimately I'm still slightly more suspicious of him, I guess.


re: Butterfree and Negrek: No idea either way, although I did enjoy that in-character post from the other day. :D Both insightful enough, neither one claiming an utterly baffling role, but iirc neither one has claimed _at all_, so there's nothing to go off of there. Negrek's currently being more helpful solely considering the number of posts, whereas Butterfree has only posted twice so far, but there are plenty of other people who fit those descriptions/similar descriptions at this point.


BUT YES I am tired and still have stuff to do if I actually want to be able to use my bed tonight and there have already been several additional posts while I typed this so I'm just going to post this for now and be done with it. Everyone keep talking, it's great :D


----------



## Negrek

*Re: Villainous Team Choice Pokémafia - Game Thread*

Actually, I think if VM's role were given to Mafia and, rather than having the restriction that it only affected town, instead affected _all roles_, it would actually be really cool.

Like, imagine you have three Mafia players, one with a votestealing ability, one with a roleblocking ability, and one with VM's ability (and all three can kill, of course). So yes, you could turn off kills and not have to worry about getting vigged, if the town had a fairly large number of vigs and/or a very active one... but until you turn it back on and expose yourself to getting killed, you can't kill anybody else. Likewise, you could turn off role fuckery, which would make your kills more likely to actually work/hit the correct target, but you'd then lose your own roleblocking ability and potentially run into issues with doctors or other powerful roles you'd want to shut down. Also, considering how Town plans to verify roles can involve people claiming some kind of action manipulation and then using it on a specific person, you could fuck with the town _so hard_ but, at the same time, doing so would limit your own ability to advance. I think there'd be some real interesting cost/benefit balancing the Mafia would have to do, although overall I think it would probably still be a little overpowered as a role with no usage limits.

Anyway, this has _absolutely no bearing_ on VM's innocence or the veracity of his roleclaim or this game in general, really; I just thought it was cool.



> Negrek: No idea either way, although I did enjoy that in-character post from the other day.


Glad you liked it! tbh I was pretty pumped to RP it up at the start of this game, but nobody else seems interested, and it makes it really hard to write actual strategy posts. I am totally down for writing more goofy IC posts (or partially IC, given the need to strategize) if other people are, though.

it's 4am maybe i should sleep


----------



## Vipera Magnifica

*Re: Villainous Team Choice Pokémafia - Game Thread*

This state of affairs is... deplorable. Even though many of the criminals here claim to be "reformed", the human spirit is so weak and incomplete that these lowlifes would resort to killing each other. And for what? What could they possibly stand to gain from this? Nothing, if you think logically about it. They are still prisoners here like everyone else, and their futile bloodletting is nothing but a pitiful byproduct of the weak human heart. Had my goals of creating a new world succeeded, I could have ended such meaningless strife once and for all, but alas, my goal was never realized.

This Lovrina of Cipher, or "Flora" as some inmates call her... although her role sounds even worse then mine (always results in an innocent death?) I feel she may be telling the truth. If so, the warden is a More Fiendish individual than I originally thought. This "Altissimo", on the other hand... hasn't been very helpful at all. She, like the weak incomplete human that she is, is letting her emotions get in the way of rational, unbiased thought and making assumptions about other players without contributing any useful information of her own. It is true that she has been "leading the abstain train" as the fools often say, so I remain wary of her intentions.

It's reasonably difficult to assume anyone innocent in this situation, though aside from myself, whom I know to be innocent, I feel somewhat confident that JackPK and Zapi can be trusted. Just because someone is being "helpful" and instigating discussion isn't really an indication that they are innocent, so Kratos and Negrek should still be regarded as suspects until proven innocent. ILS' role could indeed be town-misaligned, and Nira and Butterfree haven't really given me enough reason to assume them innocent, either. That's my take on the situation. The truth of the situation will obviously take a bit more digging to get to, but nevertheless we need to pick off _somebody_ before tonight if we want to stand any chance at ending the strife that has plagued this institution.


----------



## Autumn

*Re: Villainous Team Choice Pokémafia - Game Thread*



Vipera Magnifica said:


> She, like the weak incomplete human that she is, is letting her emotions get in the way of rational, unbiased thought


*ouch*

that cuts me deep

shit's personal now, mang


----------



## Vipera Magnifica

*Re: Villainous Team Choice Pokémafia - Game Thread*

For what it's worth, you're all weak incomplete humans to me.


----------



## Autumn

*Re: Villainous Team Choice Pokémafia - Game Thread*



Spoiler: big image












(no, we haven't been talking about the game at all, this is the first time and it doesn't even really count


----------



## Zapi

*Re: Villainous Team Choice Pokémafia - Game Thread*

...While you _scamps_ have been shitposting, I've been getting answers from the GM himself! That Giovanni guy had the right idea; turns out, my broadcasts don't include me as one a' the targeters. So there's a big chance that's why nothing showed up this morning. Probably shoulda asked about this a lot earlier, since the wording in my PM was kinda confusing, but... that's life! Bwahaha!!

I also wanna mention that claims that don't seem too helpful to the town like VM's and Flora's could be some kinda lynch bait? In case they're aliens, or something like that, who'll win if they're lynched. 'Course, this is just on top of everything else those claims could be, including the truth. And they're probably not BOTH aliens... Just throwing this out there.

I gotta go now - things to do, oceans to expand - but hopefully a little later today I'll make a post about which players I'm most suspicious of and why. Not that I have much to say that hasn't already been said, but... someone's gotta walk the plank eventually, heh heh!

don't expect me to keep this up I'm terrible at Archie's voice


----------



## Vipera Magnifica

*Re: Villainous Team Choice Pokémafia - Game Thread*



Zapi said:


> ...While you _scamps_ have been shitposting





Spoiler: that's not shitposting, this is shitposting


----------



## Butterfree

*Re: Villainous Team Choice Pokémafia - Game Thread*

Alas, I don't know if I can roleplay N. It's been ages since I played B/W.

But for what it's worth, I do The Thing, except this time around it's a night action that makes my chosen gladiators face off for the entire next day phase.

Couldn't VM's role make sense for the town if we've got, say, self-aligned killing roles? Was it worded specifically as only affecting _town-aligned_ players, or just non-mafia? On the other hand, VM's role as stated would probably make the most sense if he was self-aligned.


----------



## JackPK

*Re: Villainous Team Choice Pokémafia - Game Thread*



Butterfree said:


> But for what it's worth, I do The Thing, except this time around it's a night action that makes my chosen gladiators face off for the entire next day phase.


Do you do the version of The Thing where you can pick any two people, or the version where it has to be you vs. somebody else?

i can't actually remember if I've ever seen the latter version or if I somehow made it up in my head at some point in the past, but for some reason I feel like I remember it having happened


----------



## Kratos Aurion

*Re: Villainous Team Choice Pokémafia - Game Thread*

Aw, man, I don't like The Thing. And for the entire day, really? That doesn't sound like fun. :(

VM could make some sense with self-aligned killing roles, but somehow I doubt there are any, or at least more than one. They've been awfully quiet if they are around, for one thing. Maybe they've got some kind of restriction or limit (although I doubt it would be the same as Flora's, since any sort of suicide kill would remove the player's entire faction from the game just because they did what they were supposed to do), or maybe we have an extremely lucky doctor who has managed to stop at least one kill each night. But eh... in a twelve-player game, I dunno that it's very likely we have any serial killers or what have you.

Maybe an arsonist or similar instead of an SK? That would probably be a better explanation for the lack of kills than the quiet/unlucky SK, but it's still entirely speculative and I still think twelve is a little small for any such role. Possible, but unlikely.


----------



## JackPK

*Re: Villainous Team Choice Pokémafia - Game Thread*

Guys, we only have a few hours left until the day ends, and although I think we all agree we need to lynch, nobody's really started a bandwagon yet.

The RNG says *Butterfree*. Sorry, Butterfree.


----------



## Kratos Aurion

*Re: Villainous Team Choice Pokémafia - Game Thread*

Much though I'd love to not have to deal with a discussion-stifling role like The Thing, why resort RNG when there is someone many of us seem to be suspicious of/confused by? I'm still not 100% convinced that VM's power actually exists, tbh. Furthermore, though it's kind of unfortunate to say "sorry innocent player but you're useless", even if it does exist, how much use are we really going to get out of it? So far no one's been able to think of a really good innocent use for this "switch"—stopping a roleblocker is the best I can see based on what we've been given, and there's probably only one of those if any—and while it's _possible_ that other dangerous mafia roles we don't know about could be affected, we can only guess at whether they exist in the first place. Also remember that if we're assuming that most/all of VM's cited examples exist, then the combination of those roles and the current set of claims doesn't leave much room for too many still-unknown super-dangerous powers, now, does it? And if there are unknown powerful mafia roles that could be affected, couldn't there also be unknown powerful innocent roles that are?

So yeah, basically, I'm like 70% sure this is some kind of lie or trick, and if I'm wrong, it's a power I'm willing to lose. *Vipera Magnifica* it is.

and then tonight some ridiculous mafia power happens that he could have stopped and I deeply regret my decision


----------



## JackPK

*Re: Villainous Team Choice Pokémafia - Game Thread*

Sure, I guess. I wasn't really sure whether we were suspicious enough of VM to bandwagon him instead of using an RNG. But I'll go along with it.

*VM*, then.


----------



## M&F

*Re: Villainous Team Choice Pokémafia - Game Thread*

*Looker's daily report*

Lately, the prisoners have been talking about being "in-character"... I wouldn't know what passes through their criminal brains, but I have been thinking about it. Perhaps I, too, need to be more "in-character" -- I am undercover, after all. Even if none of these people are very bright, I must not allow anyone to blow my cover! Now, then, there are enough of them in this mess hall, so... Hmmm, how should I make the voice... Alright, it is time for Looker to assault the role with gusto!

Er-hem! Scum of the society! I am only a mere crime committer, just like all of you! See, the uniform says all of it, does it not? Just like all of you, when my mama was saying to me that "stealing is wrong", I was simply not list- Ooof! What sort of manners is this? I am merely speaking, you have no reason to cast a tray- Ooof! Ooof!

... Hm? Is it over? But oh, dear, I seem to have caused quite a commotion with my stirring speech! ... Or perhaps those inmates are merely assaulting *Cyrus*. I... shall look into that later. Oh, dear goodness, _that_ is one illegal move of wrestling for sure.

*Vipera Magnifica, the Cyrus, is dead. He was innocent.

72 hours for night actions.*


----------



## M&F

*Re: Villainous Team Choice Pokémafia - Game Thread*

Whoops, sorry for the delay.

*Tenth notch on Lysandre's cell wall.*

There has been so much ruckus lately! All throughout yesterday, the air was bathed in ugly sounds. Firstly, some sort of boisterous kind of display became popular among the inmates; I desperately tried not to pay it any heed, but I sounded as if the objective was to deliver impactful lines or some other kind of nonsense. Later, there was a brawl in the refectory; possibly, the aforementioned nonsense ultimately escalated into something even more rowdy. Why, about that time, I was hoping to eat an early dinner, but it simply wasn't safe out there. And the guards did nothing about it! In fact, the one I confronted claimed they were _instructed not to_. What is this world coming to? Arrrgh, I really should have destroyed all of these people when I had the chance.

And then! In the dead of the night! *Two people were targeting JackPK* aloud yet again! It concerns me not if this individual is some kind of popular in the facility or whatnot, there is not a thing in the world that could justify that level of noise when there are other prisoners -- _id est_, myself -- hoping to maintain their beauty sleep, at least from time to time. Or every single time.

I am uncertain as to how much of this foolishness I can withstand. If this sort of spectacle is to continue much longer, you can be certain of the fact that I will lobby to be transferred into a different cell, and I will do it _with absolutely firm poise_.

*No one has died.

72 hours for discussion.*


----------



## I liek Squirtles

*Re: Villainous Team Choice Pokémafia - Game Thread*

Well, I got this thing last night from a grunt, saying it was Zero Moment's powers:



> Constantly active (does not require an activating action). Each time you're targeted by a night action that you haven't been targeted by at least once: that action's target becomes a different, randomly chosen player, and, at the end of the night, you will be informed of the description of the power that you were initially targeted by.


----------



## Negrek

*Re: Villainous Team Choice Pokémafia - Game Thread*

I'll make a more substantial post a little later, but for now I can say that I liek Squirtles added me to the quicktopic group along with Altissimo and Kratos Aurion, so his claim checks out.


----------



## Autumn

*Re: Villainous Team Choice Pokémafia - Game Thread*

btw i'm not posting tonight bc i have a raging headache and am going to bed soon but i was looking at the signups thread and i saw this



			
				Kratos Aurion said:
			
		

> or someone else who joins. i don't care. i just want some sick music to rock out to while murdering people/executing murderers okay


i forgot about it and i've not been living up to this

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-NAKIWd38Pc here


----------



## JackPK

*Re: Villainous Team Choice Pokémafia - Game Thread*

I swapped myself and Flora last night. I presume that Zapi targeted Flora. Since Zapi's broadcasts don't count as one of the targeting actions, that means somebody else targeted Flora last night.

At least, that's if we assume that disruptive actions got switched back on when VM died... if Zapi actually targeted me last night, I suppose we can assume disruptive actions are still switched off and will stay that way for the rest of the game (unless there's somehow another switch). In that case, we have at least one unaccounted-for action targeting me last night (possibly two, if mine doesn't count while switched off).

---

Assuming that note about Zero Moment's powers is accurate (I honestly think there's at least a tiny chance that we should be suspicious that somebody, possibly scum, has the power to falsify system messages like that), then that would imply that EITHER the scum tried to kill ZM on N0 but was redirected to Superbird, OR that the scum tried to kill ZM on N1 but was redirected to somebody who was healed.

---

Out of nine people remaining and nobody flipping scum, it's likely we have either 3 scum/6 innocents or (alarmingly!) 4 scum/5 innocents. If the latter is true, _we have to lynch a scum member today_ or else we lose. Even if the former is true, an incorrect lynch today and an innocent death overnight would put us in a lynch-correctly-or-lose situation tomorrow.

---

Here's an update to the chart I made last game day:

Roles claimed in signup thread:
Superbird — Courtney of Team Magma

VM — Cyrus of Team Galactic

Flora — Lovrina of Cipher

ILS — Gengar of Team Meanies _or_ Ice of Team Dim Sun, Kratos says MF settled on Gengar

Butterfree — N of Team Plasma

Nira — Ghetsis of Team Plasma

Negrek — Giovanni of Team Rocket

Zapi — Archie of Team Aqua, claims he's clearly the ORAS incarnation

Kratos Aurion — Wes, formerly of Team Snagem

JackPK — Team Rocket's Meowth _or_ Petrel of Team Rocket, claims MF settled on Petrel

Zero Moment — Gonzap of Team Snagem

Altissimo — a bunch of possibilities, claims MF settled on all four of the Go-Rock Quads​
Claims and other evidence from game thread:
Superbird — died N0, flipped innocent

VM — can switch on/off either killing/voting actions and/or disruptive actions, but only affects innocents. Didn't do anything N0 or N1. Turned off disruptive actions N2. Was lynched D3.

Flora — vigilante, but dies if she hits scum. Abstained from vig'ing N0-N2.

ILS — recruits people into a separate thread to communicate. Recruited Altissimo N0, Kratos N1, nobody N2, Negrek N3. Group is disbanded if ILS dies. Says he got a report N3 claiming that Zero Moment's power was to redirect night actions targeted at ZM and tell ZM what those actions were.

Butterfree — does a variation of The Thing that's used as a night action and affects the whole subsequent day phase. Didn't target JackPK or Nira (presumably on both N0 and N1). Says she got a report N1 claiming that Superbird's power was to inform a living player of a dead player's powers.

Nira — not a kill power. Targeted JackPK N1 but got results regarding themself.

Negrek — not a broadcasting power. Didn't target JackPK N1.

Zapi — can broadcast the number of people who target a user of their choice. Broadcasts don't count as one of the targets. Didn't do anything N0. Targeted Nira N1 and was redirected to JackPK. Tried to use power on Negrek N2, but presumably was switched off or roleblocked.

Kratos Aurion — says their role fits Wes well, but not in a way they expected. Didn't target JackPK N0. Didn't target JackPK or Nira N1.

JackPK — can swap two targets during the night. Didn't do anything N0; swapped self and Nira N1; swapped ILS and Flora N2 (but likely didn't go through b/c switch); swapped self and Flora N3.

Zero Moment — didn't target JackPK or Nira N0. died N2, flipped innocent.

Altissimo — didn't target JackPK or Nira N0 or N1.​
Events of each phase:
N0 — Superbird (Courtney) died, flipped innocent

D1 — no lynch

N1 — no death, public note that two people targeted JackPK

D2 — no lynch

N2 — Zero Moment (Gonzap) died, flipped innocent

D2 — VM was lynched, flipped innocent

N3 — no death, public note that two people targeted JackPK​
---

Couple of questions I have now:

ZAPI, did you target me or Flora last night? (We ought to be able to use this to determine whether disruptive powers are still turned off.)

FLORA, I assume you abstained from using your power again? If not, we seem to have a healer, roleblocker, bulletproof, etc. in the game.

NIRA, NEGREK, KRATOS and ALTISSIMO are the only ones who haven't claimed their exact role yet. I don't want to put too much pressure on them to out themselves yet, since they may be things like inspectors or doctors that are still more valuable under the radar. But since today is potentially a lynch-correctly-or-lose situation (and if not, tomorrow is even more likely to be), I humbly submit that perhaps some information now is more important than the prospect of getting more information later.


----------



## Negrek

*Re: Villainous Team Choice Pokémafia - Game Thread*







Night certainly fell quickly yesterday, didn't it? I must have lost track of time somehow. It's unfortunate that that... man... with the rather unfortunate facial hair... perished for nothing, but at least more bungling prevented us from losing anyone in the night. I'm sure we'll do better today; we _are_ the world's most accomplished supervillains, after all--aside from that one green-haired kid, I'm not entirely sure what he's doing here.

I asked one of my grunts to prepare a report on the current situation. Since we're all in this together, I thought I'd share:



			
				Negrek said:
			
		

> We still haven't had anyone claim a power that explains the failed kills either N1 or last night, and it wasn't me, so that makes it Kratos or Altissimo, or someone else who lied about their role.
> 
> Based on the fact that the first message that Butterfree received actually listed the dead-role-reporting power as having been _Superbird's_, originally, it seems likely that one person was actually a chameleon who picked that up after he died and has been sending the subsequent messages. It's also possible that this is a Mafia person with the ability to message innocents who's been using it for some very elaborate trolling, in which case I salute them, that's some serious dedication.
> 
> So that's two roles outstanding: one that can block nightkills somehow, and one that allows a person to message other players, potentially with info about dead players. I'm neither of them, so either that's Kratos + Altissimo right there, or one/both belong to someone lying about their role. I could see if someone's e.g. a doctor that they'd want to keep it on the down low, but a messaging power seems innocuous enough that I would be more surprised if it belonged to somebody who'd already claimed, unless it's in addition to something they've already mentioned. (No one's claimed two powers up to this point, however, so perhaps only Mafia have them this game.)
> 
> As of now I think ILS, JackPK, and Zapi's powers work as they say they do. Doesn't really mean much in terms of them being innocent/Mafia, though, although none of them strike me as particularly Mafia-esque.
> 
> I see no way of confirming Flora's roleclaim. Butterfree's is easy to confirm, but we'd lose an entire day of discussion in order to do so and would kind of want to have a Mafia suspect to make one of the targets so we wouldn't lock ourselves into lynching someone innocent.
> 
> So... as far as planning innocent actions during the night, I'm not sure that we can do too much, aside from whoever's been killblocking (they should keep that up) and JackPK's continued distruption. I don't really see that we have the tools to actually confirm roles and maybe figure out alignments that way, so it's just going to be trying to pick apart day posts, I guess.
> 
> At this point I suppose I'm most suspicious of Butterfree, Altissimo, Nira, and Flora, I guess. In addition to being somewhat unknown quantities, with or without claiming, Flora's power in particular is a little funky and difficult to confirm, which could make it a reasonable Mafia claim (although vig can be a very risky claim, because you can be something of a lynch target).
> 
> Also:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> JackPK said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Zapi — can broadcast the number of people who target a user of their choice. Broadcasts don't count as one of the targets. Didn't do anything N0. Targeted Nira N1 and was redirected to JackPK. Tried to use power on Negrek N2, but presumably was switched off or roleblocked.
> 
> 
> 
> Like I said earlier, I think it most likely that nobody else targeted me that night. I can't see how broadcasting would count as "disruptive," so that leaves only roleblocking. Which could be a thing, based on the failed kills, but I think Occam's razor is I just didn't get targeted.
> 
> At this point, the most interesting question to me is who Zapi targeted last night and what that extra targeting action was.
> 
> Finally, can I get a collective da fuq over the fact that VM was most likely telling the truth about his batshit switch power? Because seriously, da fuq???
Click to expand...

She gets a bit carried away at times, but I can't say I disagree with her analysis.



			
				Altissimo said:
			
		

> Kratos Aurion said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> or someone else who joins. i don't care. i just want some sick music to rock out to while murdering people/executing murderers okay
> i forgot about it and i've not been living up to this
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-NAKIWd38Pc here
Click to expand...

Hmm. It's a decent attempt, but if you're looking for something that _really_ rocks, you should be looking to Team Rocket.


----------



## Zapi

*Re: Villainous Team Choice Pokémafia - Game Thread*

I did indeed target Flora last night. I'm gonna have too busy of a day to make a more substantial post until later, but I just wanted to get that out of the way


----------



## JackPK

*Re: Villainous Team Choice Pokémafia - Game Thread*

Just spitballing some stuff I thought of while reading your analysis, Negrek... what if the absent nightkills and Zapi's power being turned off despite being tough to label as "disruptive" are both the result of a roleblocker? Think about it. N1 and now N3 we had a broadcast and no kill, and N2 we had a kill and no broadcast.

IF this is the case (and, admittedly, it's a dubious one), our roleblocker should probably come forward, because if they targeted the same person N1 and N3 we can be pretty sure that person is scum, or if they targeted different people it's more likely that (A) at least one of the two is scum and the other unaccounted-for absent nightkill was the result of inactive!scum, rather than (B) both absent nightkills being inactive!scum. (Wow, that was a run-on sentence. Hope it's clear enough to read.)



Zapi said:


> I did indeed target Flora last night. I'm gonna have too busy of a day to make a more substantial post until later, but I just wanted to get that out of the way


Okay, awesome, that means disruptive powers are switched back on.

That means one more person targeted Flora and got bounced to me. Anybody wanna claim that?


----------



## Autumn

*Re: Villainous Team Choice Pokémafia - Game Thread*

Just posting to say that I don't have much time now but I will be participating later today.


----------



## Autumn

*Re: Villainous Team Choice Pokémafia - Game Thread*

Okay I have some more time now, may as well spill.

I'm a doctor - the POWER OF MUSIC is substantial enough to prevent people from getting nightkilled. But because I'm all four Go-Rock Quads, this works a little differently. Basically, when I first use my power, I can choose 4 players. These 4 are then protected from any kill that can be made in the night - at the cost of one of the Go-Rock Quads' lives. Then, because I've lost one of them, I can only pick 3 players the following time I use my action, etc, etc.

This might seem a bit broken, and yeah it kind of is, but I guess it's balanced by powers like VM's (even if it never got used - mine is probably a voting/killing action in the game's eyes based on what he said) and the presence of a vigilante killer? /shrug

Anyway, I've got 1 Quad left (it's Clyde). I refrained from using my power n0, then used it the past 3 nights, so if I use it again I'm done. Which... considering the whole diminishing returns thing, I don't really want to do to keep myself alive? But, uh, maybe if I REALLY see a need to, I will. But the fact that I only have 1 left is why I'm okay with coming clean now... earlier I probably would have put a target on my back, but now since I only have 1 Quad, I don't imagine the Mafia are going to think it so important to pick me off? But I could be wrong. :/

I should also point out that I'm not notified if any of my heals were _successful_. So while it'd be tempting to say "oh yeah this is what prevented the deaths N1 and last night", and that's definitely very likely, we don't know for sure. There could well be a roleblocker somewhere (either one of the non-claimants or someone else lying about their role), or just an inactive mafia. Or something else going on we don't know about. Idk.


----------



## Butterfree

*Re: Villainous Team Choice Pokémafia - Game Thread*

Altissimo, who did you target on previous nights?


----------



## Autumn

*Re: Villainous Team Choice Pokémafia - Game Thread*

N0 I didn't target anyone, like I said.
N1 was ILS and Kratos (because I'd just been pulled into the chat, we were planning to add Kratos as well, and I wanted to keep that going), then Zapi and VM - random choices. I wouldn't have the slightest clue which one of these the Mafia did decide to target that resulted in the no-kill.
N2 was Nira, ILS again (same reason), and Flora.
N3 was Butterfree (because I was worried that the Mafia might well try to kill Butterfree in order to frame me, considering Butterfree was suspicious of me) and Flora again bc vig (which would explain the extra action on Jack after the switch). If Flora had been targeted, then the actions on Jack would have numbered 3 (my heal, Mafia kill, and Jack's switching) so it looks like Flora wasn't the target. Either it was Butterfree or something else happened.


----------



## kyeugh

*Re: Villainous Team Choice Pokémafia - Game Thread*

Everyone is roleclaiming, so i think the chances of me getting ousted as a result of explaining my role at this point are negligible.  I'll go ahead.

My role is mundane compared to the rest of yours, actually.  I have two powers: the first allows me to glean the details of someone's role, although their alignment remains undisclosed; and the second is a roleblock.  I can't use both in the same night.  I forgot to act on night zero (surprise surprise), but on night one, i inspected JackPK, and was returned with results regarding myself.  I'll divulge more as it becomes necessary— i hope that's understandable.  I'd like to stay alive, after all.


----------



## Negrek

*Re: Villainous Team Choice Pokémafia - Game Thread*

After a claim like that, I'm not sure what advantage you'd get out of _not_ saying who you'd targeted/what role results you got.


----------



## Kratos Aurion

*Re: Villainous Team Choice Pokémafia - Game Thread*

Hm... lots of discussion today... lots to analyze... or at least speculate about... ♪


A lot of interesting things have been said, although I dunno that I see much I need to respond to directly. If there is something specific you'd like me (or anyone else, let's get them quiet people a-talkin') to address, lemme know.

The few things that stand out to me are:

-Zero Moment's power. It is definitely one potential explanation for a no-kill night (unless it happened on the first night and the kill bounced to Superbird), although the flavor detail about him having gone peacefully is still gnawing at me a little. If he went peacefully, that means that he might not have been killed by an aggressive or scum-aligned power. Furthermore, if he was targeted by something scummy, why didn't he share his results when he had the chance? I guess it's possible he thought it was worth holding on to for later, although atm I can't think of why you'd do that. But it could also be that, since he has to have been hit by the same action twice, the action that killed him didn't smack of mafia when MF PM'd him about it, and he didn't want to out a useful town-sounding role right away. So then what might that role have been, and where did the mafia kill actually go that night? Was it actually directed at one of Altissimo's targets, who was protected?

It's also possible that the action was a "vanilla mafia kill" with no additional frills or powers, in which case I guess there is an argument for not bothering to post about it—the mafia can kill, the sky is blue, water is wet, what else is new—but then the action would probably have been more violent, which doesn't fit the death flavor. I know it's risky to read too much into flavor, but I don't really know what else to do with that information, so...



-The possibility of inactive mafia. I don't know that this is terribly likely, since in this day and age I'm pretty sure it's rare(?) to see a mafia with only one killing role—the norm is to let anyone in the group submit the kill, yes? Largely to guard against inactive mafia, in fact. Given that there are probably 3–4 mafiosi and not that many stubbornly silent people, surely someone in that faction is paying attention and could be sending in kills. It's not _impossible_ that they're all forgetting/inactive, or that there really is only one active killing role at a time, but my money is on Alti or someone else being extremely lucky.



I also don't understand why Nira doesn't want to give up the rest of their results. If the results sound scummy, there's no reason not to share, because we do need to lynch a mafioso soon; if they sound innocent, there's no reason not to clear people's names and try to find the mafia by process of elimination. Now, given that they don't receive alignment along with the role details, it could also be that it's very hard to tell... but then why not put at least the roles, if not also the attached usernames, out there so we can discuss them and suss it out together? Are you at least able to confirm anyone else's claim about their power?

Like, when I suggested that people use discretion when revealing the results from the death rolecop, that was because it would be bad to reveal that we were down any doctors or anything else that might tell the mafia they could attack indiscriminately. But now that lots of people have claimed, including a doctor, I don't really see the point in hiding it anymore? If there is something like an additional doctor out there, couldn't you at least say that much without outing the actual player? What could possibly be left that's worth hiding?

And why would not revealing them keep you alive? You've already claimed what appears to be a very powerful role (rolecop + roleblocker) with no apparent restrictions. That in and of itself makes you a juicy mafia target if you're telling the truth. The only thing I can think of there is that your role has a restriction wherein sharing information about X nights will kill you... but surely you could just admit to that restriction if that were the case? There's no reason to be vague about something like that, and understanding any limitations we have to work with can help us use one another's powers more effectively.

On a similar note, if you don't have a drawback... that sounds like a potent role, as I said, and no one else seems to have a role anything like that. So far most of the claims are either non-traditional altogether, or mostly traditional with some kind of twist or drawback. Jack's bus driver role (assuming we know the whole truth about it) is the most vanilla thing we've seen so far and has no restrictions, but it's also just a bus driver, not what's essentially two separate roles. I'm not sure I buy that combination as actually existing in this game, at least not without further explanation.



...At any rate... need to lynch today... haha. Nira looks... interesting... perhaps... suspicious...? ♪ But maybe we should wait... for further analysis... They should... share targets... at least explain... why they can't! ♪ Lynching... inspector... would be bad... but if they can't clear this up... may have to take the risk...

...What... why are you... looking at me? I am... just Courtney... of Team Magma... that is definitely... who I am. ♪ You can tell... because I'm wearing... Courtney's clothing... as Courtney should be! ♪ Courtney is... alive and well... That "Superbird"... stole my things... I took them back... after he was... deleted! That's totally what happened, I swear... um... haha. ♪

...Who is... Wes? I don't... know any Wes. ♪ I mean, c'mon, that kid's turned into such a goody two-shoes, why would he even end up in the slammer, I should've realized after the first time I tried to— uh... hang on, dangit, lemme get it back *ahem*... I mean... if there was ever... a "Wes"... I most certainly... am not him! Even if I was... should be obvious... I am not now! I am also... not anyone else... who is not Courtney... although it would be interesting... if I were... such a flawless master of disguise! ♪

...But yes... analysis has proven... that I am definitely, undeniably, 100% Admin Courtney of Team Magma... I am her and she is me and we are all together here! ♪ So I'm the one... who sent N and the talking gengar... information. ♪ You're welcome... haha. ♪

God, this lady's weird sing-song robot voice is killing me... Why couldn't the Italian guy have bought it first? I can do a totally great Italian accent! Ah, the travails of being a master of disguise...


----------



## Autumn

*Re: Villainous Team Choice Pokémafia - Game Thread*

those ellipses are killing my eyes man

also I just want to say re: zero moment. ZM was killed the night VM claims he used his switch power to turn off roleblock-y powers? Is there a possibility it could have extended to ZM's own personal power, letting the Mafia kill him without having prior targeted him? it seems like a long shot considering that such a constantly active action doesn't seem like it'd be affected by something like that, but since VM's role (assuming he wasn't lying about it, that is) seems kind of... situational, is the only word I can really think of... as is, maybe that's another thing that his power has the ability to affect.

re: Nira: if he has a restriction, maybe he also can't tell us about the restriction, seems like a thing MF might do lol


----------



## JackPK

*Re: Villainous Team Choice Pokémafia - Game Thread*

Kratos, I take it from your flavor text that you're claiming to be the one who inherited Superbird's power. For those of us who are a little obtuse about making inferences, can you give us a direct yes/no?



Altissimo said:


> re: Nira: if he has a restriction, maybe he also can't tell us about the restriction, seems like a thing MF might do lol


Yeah, a restriction against talking about a restriction sounds quite MFish.

Idk, I have a low level of suspicion about several people but not really a high enough level on anybody to feel confident picking a lynch target yet. I agree that it's probably in our best interest for Nira to speak up (assuming no restriction), but if they don't, idk, they + the broadcast + my switching + nobody else claiming all adds up to Nira telling the truth, at least about that night, so I don't even think they're too suspicious yet.

Unless Nira's telling the truth about their role yet is scum-aligned? Well, now that I think of it, their role would be a lot more useful to scum (find out who's got inspection/Doctor/etc roles) than to innocents (for whom a standard inspector would be the more intuitive role). Then again, nothing in this game is intuitive (thanks, MF), so I really don't know what to think.


----------



## Kratos Aurion

*Re: Villainous Team Choice Pokémafia - Game Thread*

Oh, you're no fun. >/ Yes, I inherited Superbird's role. I am (now) the death rolecop, or whatever you want to call it.

(Before anyone asks, no, I don't intend to investigate VM. I guess for now it's safe to assume he was telling the truth (???????), and given that my power is limited-use, I'd rather not kill myself by expending all of it/waste a use on an innocent who claimed. Probably obvious, but putting it out there just in case.)

I haven't played enough MFia to know whether that sounds typical, but I would definitely feel better asking—like I said, I can't see a valid reason not to share either the results themselves or to be clearer about the fact that there is a restriction. I guess we'll have to see what happens when Nira responds, although let it be known that (short of a better target showing up) I am willing to lynch if they don't/if they can't explain satisfactorily based on how oddly OP that role sounds for this game.


----------



## Negrek

*Re: Villainous Team Choice Pokémafia - Game Thread*

I will admit that I'm skeptical of "not allowed to give specifics during the day" as a restriction on Nira's power--the only other person who's claimed any sort of restriction on their power is Flora, who tbh is probably the other person I'm most suspicious of at the moment. Yes, his power would be quite, well, powerful without some kind of restriction, but it could as easily be a lie.



> God, this lady's weird sing-song robot voice is killing me... Why couldn't the Italian guy have bought it first? I can do a totally great Italian accent! Ah, the travails of being a master of disguise...


omg keep your hands off my suave you sunglass-wearing hooligan


----------



## Negrek

*Re: Villainous Team Choice Pokémafia - Game Thread*

Also btw I think we only have 23 hours left to discuss unless we get an extension, and last day we got no extension even though discussion was still going on, so if we want to avoid a kind of last-minute-only-two-people-voting-decides-fate-of-player we should probably get going?

So I'll start off by nominating *Nira*, and you have a fair few hours at your disposal to discuss/propose alternatives/change my mind etc.


----------



## Butterfree

*Re: Villainous Team Choice Pokémafia - Game Thread*

Yeeaah, I'm also _highly_ suspicious of *Nira*. How _incredibly_ convenient that the first two nights just happened to give them no information whatsoever! This hypothetical restriction being discussed would have to be a _pretty specific_ one for them to be allowed to reveal that they didn't target anyone N0 and targeted JackPK N1, but not any of the actual useful information they're implying they got after that - the only way I can see it happening is if it were literally "You may only reveal information about the first two nights", and then, again, it would be _incredibly convenient_ that those first two nights _just happened_ to give zero verifiable information.

The only thing that's making me hesitate is the possibility of some sort of alien, because this _is_ a great ploy to make people jump up to suspect them. But my instinct leans more towards mafia.


----------



## Zapi

*Re: Villainous Team Choice Pokémafia - Game Thread*

So much stuff's happening around here! How do you expect a guy like me to keep up?!

The dude with the sweet eyepiece - seriously, man, that thing's _badass_, where'd you get it? - _has_ been acting pretty suspicious. I mean, if you ask me, his whole... thing he's got going on just screams "guilty". Just look at his outfit! Sick eyepatch aside, what the hell is he _wearing_? And that hairdo... But I guess I'm not really one to talk, right? Bwahaha! 

Still, I don't really wanna jump on him right away... I may be a pirate, but I got some morals, y'know? I'll at least give a fella the chance to defend themself before I make 'em walk the plank. Besides, like the weird kid with a tree on his head said, maybe that guy's _trying_ to look suspicious so we'll vote him off. But if I got no good reason not to vote for him by the end of the day... I might just change my mind, heh heh.

Hmm, the only other scamps I'm suspicious of at all are the lass with the long pigtails (honestly, what kind of useless power...) and that loud buncha punks (they seem a bit _too_ powerful, at the start, at least, but... I think the other powers we've seen balance things out, y'know?). But I'm definitely not suspicious enough of either of 'em to suggest a vote, so I'm not gonna just yet!


----------



## kyeugh

*Re: Villainous Team Choice Pokémafia - Game Thread*

Um okay.  I actually revealed everything about my role (and was also privy to information that was proven to be true _before_ it was proven to be true so i don't see why this is even an issue???) but okay.  I didn't want to point any fingers at mafia because it would draw suspicion to me not only from the mafia, but also from my fellow villagers who are more liable to trust someone else.  But whatever.  You're all at my throat anyway for some reason so i may as well spill the beans.



Butterfree said:


> Yeeaah, I'm also _highly_ suspicious of *Nira*. How _incredibly_ convenient that the first two nights just happened to give them no information whatsoever!


This is sort of unfair; i'm busy enough with school and the like, and it's not that unrealistic for me to have forgotten night zero.  I did not forget night one— i happened to pick the one person in the mafia who _happened_ to reverse my action and okay i mean really is that my fault.  It's not "convenient," it just worked out that way, and i think it's sort of strange that you're so quick to jump on my case about it when it's not even more suspicious than perhaps some other people.  It's only suspicious that i didn't get results one night because it's convenient for you; no one seems to really care that Alti's been inactive like the whole game but suddenly it's treachery because i don't have all the information you want immediately upon roleclaiming.



Butterfree said:


> "You may only reveal information about the first two nights", and then, again, it would be _incredibly convenient_ that those first two nights _just happened_ to give zero verifiable information.


Okay this logic might be valid if i had actually acted night zero but, as i said, i did not, and that means that i only happened to pick the one guy that gave me useless results on the night i did inspect (nights afterwards that i haven't disclosed as of yet notwithstanding).  It was one time that got me results, which is a strange coincidence, but not _so_ strange that holy shit i must be scum.

Anyway.  I don't have any qualms with posting my results at this point i guess but am i going to get modkilled if i directly copy and paste the contents of the PMs i received?  I think i recall something like that happening before.


----------



## Zapi

*Re: Villainous Team Choice Pokémafia - Game Thread*



Nira said:


> Anyway.  I don't have any qualms with posting my results at this point i guess but am i going to get modkilled if i directly copy and paste the contents of the PMs i received?  I think i recall something like that happening before.


According to the rules in the sign-up thread, you can quote/copypaste from role PMs, but you can't screenshot them.


----------



## Negrek

*Re: Villainous Team Choice Pokémafia - Game Thread*



			
				Nira said:
			
		

> This is sort of unfair; i'm busy enough with school and the like, and it's not that unrealistic for me to have forgotten night zero. I did not forget night one— i happened to pick the one person in the mafia who happened to reverse my action and okay i mean really is that my fault. It's not "convenient," it just worked out that way, and i think it's sort of strange that you're so quick to jump on my case about it when it's not even more suspicious than perhaps some other people. It's only suspicious that i didn't get results one night because it's convenient for you; no one seems to really care that Alti's been inactive like the whole game but suddenly it's treachery because i don't have all the information you want immediately upon roleclaiming.


Sounds like you're pointing at JackPK there? I recall you saying he bounced your action back at you, so did you inspect him again in a later night?

I don't think Altissimo's been particularly inactive? She was making a lot of kind of jokey posts early on, but she was still making a lot more than most people.



			
				Zapi said:
			
		

> Still, I don't really wanna jump on him right away... I may be a pirate, but I got some morals, y'know? I'll at least give a fella the chance to defend themself before I make 'em walk the plank. Besides, like the weird kid with a tree on his head said, maybe that guy's trying to look suspicious so we'll vote him off. But if I got no good reason not to vote for him by the end of the day... I might just change my mind, heh heh.


I just wanted to say that I really enjoy your Archie impression, A+.


----------



## kyeugh

*Re: Villainous Team Choice Pokémafia - Game Thread*



Negrek said:


> Sounds like you're pointing at JackPK there? I recall you saying he bounced your action back at you, so did you inspect him again in a later night?


I didn't.  I had pretty much gleaned what his action was by the end of the day anyway, so i didn't waste another night verifying what i had no reason to argue.


Negrek said:


> I don't think Altissimo's been particularly inactive? She was making a lot of kind of jokey posts early on, but she was still making a lot more than most people.


Well, i guess not; i was more making a point about her taking leave ("I won't be able to post today") and no one caring, but it apparently being a big deal that i forgot to do something once.  I don't really think she's scum because she's been absent, as i've been absent too. It's more the point.


----------



## Autumn

*Re: Villainous Team Choice Pokémafia - Game Thread*

in my defense, people often just don't post but give no reason to not post, and that's why people are a bit annoyed at inactivity and things like the bastard mafia's warning-rule exist - i made a point to say that i'd be gone

besides, i was off auditioning for grad school. even the go-rock quads can improve their musical craft!!!!!


----------



## JackPK

*Re: Villainous Team Choice Pokémafia - Game Thread*

We're asking you to share any more info that you got, so you.... make a long, rambling post to defend yourself without actually giving any more info? This reeks to me of scum in over its head, unable to come up with info that won't potentially incriminate it, and therefore trying to stall giving that info.

*Nira*.



			
				Nira said:
			
		

> I did not forget night one— i happened to pick the one person in the mafia who happened to reverse my action


I'm honestly not sure whether you're trying to point the finger at me to take the heat off you, but whether you're scum or not I'm going to give you the benefit of the doubt and assume "the mafia" was a poorly worded way of saying "this mafia game."


----------



## Kratos Aurion

*Re: Villainous Team Choice Pokémafia - Game Thread*

People have been posting the results of my action (Superbird and Zero Moment's roles) without being modkilled, so you should be able to C/P the same/similar information from your PMs without fear of MF zapping you. And certainly you're not going to be modkilled just for listing names and paraphrasing the PM'd results...?

And "don't want to point fingers at mafia"? Uh, but that's the point???? How can we lynch them if we don't know who they are? It's one thing to hang onto that information early in the game so you have time to gather some more, but we're probably going to end up in a lynch-or-lose scenario tomorrow (and might be in one today, although I doubt that), and so many people have claimed that it seems silly to remain quiet. We need information. We need to be able to lynch. If you have useful information and don't want to risk sharing it outright, then you should at least have tried to find some other, subtler way to communicate it to us... or, hell, if you were suspicious of Jack, you could've tried to get a "random" lynch started or come up with some other reason for going after him, then come clean after you were proved right. It could be risky, sure, but ultimately it's more helpful to town than just sitting on useful info all day.

I try not to automatically jump to suspicion when people "forget" actions, because yeah! Sometimes they really do forget! Sometimes their actions really are unlucky! But all this bizarre caginess, now, this is just unnecessary. At this stage of the game, if you are town and you have information, it is in town's best interest for you to share that information. We've been firing pretty much blindly—or doing nothing at all—this whole game, and we can't afford to do that any longer.

But here, let's compromise. Lynch *Nira* today. If they flip innocent, and if we don't lose tonight as a result (again, doubt we will, but who knows?), JackPK can be up on the block tomorrow. I admit I've got some general low-grade suspicions about Jack anyway, but nothing I feel concrete acting on just yet. But sure, if we're wrong and Nira is innocent, then they were telling the truth about having a reason to suspect Jack, and that's all the evidence I'll need.

There's still time for my mind to be changed on this lynch—a solid reason to actually lynch Jack (or someone else) might well come up before the day ends—but I'm pretty comfy with this vote for now.



			
				Negrek said:
			
		

> omg keep your hands off my suave you sunglass-wearing hooligan


I am not wearing sunglasses, old man! Courtney doesn't wear sunglasses! What part of "master of disguise" are you not getting here?







Er... I mean... see... no sunglasses... haha. ♪


----------



## Kratos Aurion

*Re: Villainous Team Choice Pokémafia - Game Thread*

Okay, so I got ninja'd by a few posts. But even if Jack is interpreting your post correctly and you just meant "the mafia game" (so it's not Jack specifically you're suspicious of), clearly you're still suspicious of someone, since you mentioned not wanting to call out mafia members. I would suggest pointing those fingers at that someone pretty darn quick, so you can either convince us to switch our vote now, or let us know to go after them tomorrow.


----------



## kyeugh

*Re: Villainous Team Choice Pokémafia - Game Thread*



JackPK said:


> I'm honestly not sure whether you're trying to point the finger at me to take the heat off you, but whether you're scum or not I'm going to give you the benefit of the doubt and assume "the mafia" was a poorly worded way of saying "this mafia game."


Haha, whoops, yeah.  I meant the "mafia game," i don't suspect you at all.


JackPK said:


> We're asking you to share any more info that you got, so you.... make a long, rambling post to defend yourself without actually giving any more info? This reeks to me of scum in over its head, unable to come up with info that won't potentially incriminate it, and therefore trying to stall giving that info.


No, it'll be done by the end of the day!  Honestly if i didn't want to give it, i wouldn't have promised otherwise; that would make me look even worse.  I'm just making sure it's right and putting it in a readable format (and also i'm kind of busy?).


----------



## Butterfree

*Re: Villainous Team Choice Pokémafia - Game Thread*



Nira said:


> No, it'll be done by the end of the day!  Honestly if i didn't want to give it, i wouldn't have promised otherwise; that would make me look even worse.  I'm just making sure it's right and putting it in a readable format (and also i'm kind of busy?).


Uh? "Making sure it's right"? "Putting it in a readable format"? That sounds... kind of bizarre? How hard is copy-pasting a PM? If the PM were in some sort of extremely esoteric format that warrants this, why wouldn't you just tell us that instead of being so vague and evasive about why you can't give us the info?



			
				Nira said:
			
		

> This is sort of unfair; i'm busy enough with school and the like, and it's not that unrealistic for me to have forgotten night zero. I did not forget night one— i happened to pick the one person in the mafia who happened to reverse my action and okay i mean really is that my fault. It's not "convenient," it just worked out that way, and i think it's sort of strange that you're so quick to jump on my case about it when it's not even more suspicious than perhaps some other people.


Well, of course it wouldn't be your fault it turned out that way if you were innocent! When I say 'convenient', I mean that for a mafia member, claiming you're an inspector but just happened to get no useful information is extremely convenient, because then you don't say anything verifiable that could come back to bite you after making the claim. If you were innocent, things would happen to turn out this way pretty rarely, but if you were mafia, then it's _very_ likely you'd make exactly this kind of claim. This disparity (combined with the fact the ratio of mafia to innocents is much less skewed) means that you claiming this is way more likely to happen because you're mafia than because you're innocent but it turned out that way by coincidence, which means it's evidence that you're mafia. Add in your evasiveness about your N2 and N3 results, which only makes any sense for an innocent if your role happens to be something extremely esoteric but would be exactly what one would expect if you were mafia, and you're about as suspicious as it's possible to be in a mafia game. It's not _impossible_ for you not to be, but right now, given the information we have, the odds of you being mafia are a whole lot higher than for anybody else, and thus it's very reasonable to suspect you. If you really are innocent and this really is just how things happened to turn out, then you should be cursing your luck for the pileup of coincidences that are making you look so glaringly suspicious, not getting mad that we're drawing the inevitable conclusion!


----------



## kyeugh

*Re: Villainous Team Choice Pokémafia - Game Thread*

I've been out of the house until just now, piecing things together on my mobile by flipping between PMs on my bad service, pasting them into a separate application, removing the excess flavour bits that were part of the PM, and checking to make sure everything aligns with the right nights.  Anyway, here is the fruit of my labours:


Spoiler: Night Actions



*Night Zero*
forgot to send in a night action

*Night One*
Inspected Jack.  Returned my own results:


> -When used at night, targets a player (chosen by the user) and, at the end of the night, if successful, reveals the targeted player's "powers" to the user. Cannot be used in the same night as ???.
> -When used at night, targets a player (chosen by the user) and prevents that player from activating their "powers" during the same night. Cannot be used in the same night as ???.


*Night Two*
Inspected VM, returned the following:


> -When used at night, if successful, cancels the actions of voting/killing roles (such as vigs, CPR doctors, and vote thieves), and/or disruptive roles (such as roleblockers, redirectors, and framers).


*Night Three*
Roleblocked Flora.





Butterfree said:


> Well, of course it wouldn't be your fault it turned out that way if you were innocent! When I say 'convenient', I mean that for a mafia member, claiming you're an inspector but just happened to get no useful information is extremely convenient, because then you don't say anything verifiable that could come back to bite you after making the claim. If you were innocent, things would happen to turn out this way pretty rarely, but if you were mafia, then it's _very_ likely you'd make exactly this kind of claim. This disparity (combined with the fact the ratio of mafia to innocents is much less skewed) means that you claiming this is way more likely to happen because you're mafia than because you're innocent but it turned out that way by coincidence, which means it's evidence that you're mafia. Add in your evasiveness about your N2 and N3 results, which only makes any sense for an innocent if your role happens to be something extremely esoteric but would be exactly what one would expect if you were mafia, and you're about as suspicious as it's possible to be in a mafia game.


This is fair enough, which is probably why it's frustrating.  I know i'm not mafia and i've encountered a difficult situation which has predisposed everyone to distrust me (despite the fact that i _feel_ like i already proved i'm innocent by explaining Jack's role before he claimed), and there's nothing i can do because regardless of the evidence i give at this point, everyone is going to be inclined to overanalyse it and attempt to call some sort of illusory bluff.  There's no way i can prove to you that i'm innocent, which is the nature of the game; but i see everyone expending their energies trying to prove guilty someone that _i_ know is not and i think we should be focusing our attentions elsewhere.  We're wasting time when we could be finding someone that's mafia.  Hopefully the evidence above is sufficient; it's ostensibly "useless" but whatever i guess.  I picked people that looked scummy to me and investigated them and this is what i got.  (At this point i don't suspect Jack, but i clearly wasn't alone in suspecting VM.)

Anyway, hopefully this sheds a little light on... something?  I don't know.  It's probably not anything new; i was just hesitant to reveal information because i wanted to keep as much as i could private so that i wouldn't get my head cut off but i mean whatever i'm probably going to die one way or another at this point anyway so here it is.  I'm not really as mad at the conclusion itself as i am the fact that everyone's sticking to it so hard and there's nothing i can really do to dissuade suspicion because, you're right, it does seem hella fishy but i mean i can't do anything... about that...

I'm not all that opposed to being lynched, i guess, if you guys think it's your _only_ choice— i mean, i think it's stupid, because you're getting rid of a roleblocker/investigator, but whatever.  If you truly think i'm mafia, i can't stop you, but i'll do whatever i can to prove that i'm legitimate if anyone would like to put my powers to the test tonight, and risk a night death for the chance of possibly retaining the life of an innocent with valuable powers.


----------



## Negrek

*Re: Villainous Team Choice Pokémafia - Game Thread*

I'm kind of confused... why did you roleblock Flora N3, rather than inspecting? It's true she's claimed lame-vig, but at least to me it would make more sense to confirm that she was actually telling the truth about that than to block her? I mean, there's no evidence she's been going out trying to murder people, unless there was some reason you thought she might start trying that night...?

Also, you knew VM was telling the truth about his bizarro-power, but you didn't even try to make a token attempt at deflecting suspicion from him and perhaps preventing us from going off on that long tangent? And now you're complaining that we're spending a ton of effort going after someone you know is innocent? =/

Like Butterfree said, it's entirely possible you're innocent and unlucky, in which case that's super frustrating and really sucks. I have to admit, though, that your choices look pretty bizarre to me at this point, and tbh every post you've made today has made me more and more convinced that you're Mafia.

Also, I believe I'm the only person who hasn't even partial claimed (hello). I'm not quite ready to do so yet, although I will tomorrow if possible. However, since I might not live that long, I'll at least share what I know. Namely, _both JackPK and ILS are innocent_. That's all I've got in terms of alignments, and unfortunately I don't know anything that would help untangle the situation with Nira here.

So basically you shouldn't make one of them your lynch target, regardless of what happens with Nira, IMO.


----------



## I liek Squirtles

*Re: Villainous Team Choice Pokémafia - Game Thread*

Hrm.

I have a strong suspicion that *Butterfree* is mafia. The Thing is an awfully useful role to claim- town wouldn't use it unless there were strong suspicions, and a mafia would've used it almost immediately. I think Nira's telling the truth. I completely understand that he's had difficulties keeping up (I've had some similar issues).


----------



## Zapi

*Re: Villainous Team Choice Pokémafia - Game Thread*



Negrek said:


> I just wanted to say that I really enjoy your Archie impression, A+.


Whaddya mean, Archie _impression_?! I'm the real deal!

...In all seriousness, thank you! I do try. I have too much of a headache to maintain my Archie voice for the remainder of this post, though.

Anyway. I'm still not sure what to think about Nira's claims. On the one hand, nothing they've said so far has made me particularly less suspicious of them... but on the other hand, as someone who's definitely made mistakes and poor choices that have made me seem like mafia when I'm actually not, I'm willing to give them the benefit of the doubt for the time being. Also, the fact that they're saying they're "not all that opposed to being lynched" is making me wary of the possibility of some alien/other lynch-win-role fuckery.

Right now, though, I'm more interested in the last two posts in this thread, namely:



Negrek said:


> [...] I'll at least share what I know. Namely, _both JackPK and ILS are innocent_.


... Care to elaborate? I mean, randomly declaring your mafia buddies as innocent with no evidence/support seems like _way_ too obvious of a tactic for an actual mafioso to use, and I have more faith in you as a mafia player than that, but. I can't think of a reason why you'd just say this without actually explaining your role and expect people to take it at face value...?

And re: ILS' last post: I understand your reasons for finding Butterfree suspicious but I don't see how they're nearly enough to start voting for her over anyone else. Most of what she's said so far has seemed pretty reasonable to me.


----------



## Butterfree

*Re: Villainous Team Choice Pokémafia - Game Thread*



I liek Scythers said:


> Hrm.
> 
> I have a strong suspicion that *Butterfree* is mafia. The Thing is an awfully useful role to claim- town wouldn't use it unless there were strong suspicions, and a mafia would've used it almost immediately. I think Nira's telling the truth. I completely understand that he's had difficulties keeping up (I've had some similar issues).


Huh? What does a hypothetical mafia who can do The Thing have to do with anything? If I _were_ mafia, presumably I'd be lying about doing The Thing... which you appear to agree with, since you say a mafia player with The Thing would have used it by now. ?_? What a mafia that actually does have the power would do has no bearing on how likely a person who claims the power is to be mafia.

But yeah, The Thing would be a fairly convenient claim for a mafia member! I won't contest that. It is also simply _a role_, though, and one that we know MF likes to use in his games, so believing I'm mafia strongly enough to want to lynch me simply because I claimed it is a stretch, especially when Nira's claim is also there. In Nira's case, their claimed _actions and results thereof_ are _all_ such that they give no verifiable information - it is obviously and self-evidently _far_ less likely that somebody has that role _and_ they happened to get no verifiable information on any of the four separate nights so far than simply that somebody has The Thing as a role. If you believe I'm mafia _simply because I have a role that'd be convenient for the mafia to claim_, then if you wanted to be self-consistent you should believe Nira is mafia much more strongly. (Of course, you might really suspect me because you think I was too aggressive in accusing Nira or Altissimo or whatever, and that's fair enough. But saying you suspect me _just because_ I claimed The Thing, while at the same time believing Nira, is bizarre - unless you know something about Nira that you're not telling us.)

As I said in my previous post, I'm by no means claiming it's not perfectly plausible that they could have trouble keeping up with the game and miss a night action - I've done that in mafia games too! I'm claiming that lots of different things about Nira's claim and posts and supposed night actions that should be independent are all just happening to line up in such a way as to look exactly like a mafia member trying to make up something nobody will be able to contradict, and sometimes distinctly _un_like a genuine innocent. Honestly, if Negrek weren't vouching for you, I'd find it kind of suspicious how you seem to be going out of your way to ignore everything _else_ we cited as suspicious about Nira and present it as if we're just baselessly going "Nobody would ever fail to send in a night action, therefore Nira is mafia"? That's clearly not what we're saying, or what we've ever been saying, here.


----------



## JackPK

*Re: Villainous Team Choice Pokémafia - Game Thread*

I do want to point out, since people seem to be forgetting, that back on the night when I switched Nira and myself (can't remember if it was N0 or N1, and I'm on mobile so I can't be bothered to check), Nira publicly said they got results about themself _before_ I publicly roleclaimed. So I do think they're telling the truth about their role.

That's not to say they're necessarily innocent. It seems like a much more helpful role for scum to have (since they would want to find out who's inspector/doctor/etc) than for an innocent to have. Of course, this being a game with atypical roles, it may very well be an innocent role. It's tough to judge. I'm still not really sure what to think, but I'm not really inclined to retract my vote quite yet.

Meanwhile, Negrek, I'm certainly not suspicious of you yet, but surely you would have to know that — based on what you posted about alignments — if you're innocent, you're painting a huge target on your back for a nightkill, since the scum are going to assume you're an inspector. Literally just about any other claim would be safer for you to make, so why are you reticent to claim? If you're going to share inspector data, why not come out and claim inspector? (Meanwhile, if you're scum, damn, that's a clever trick: pseudoclaim inspector, so that if/when you get killed and flip scum, it immediately throws suspicion on everyone you "cleared" as innocent, tricking the town into lynching an innocent the following night. Diabolical.)


----------



## Zapi

*Re: Villainous Team Choice Pokémafia - Game Thread*



JackPK said:


> That's not to say they're necessarily innocent. It seems like a much more helpful role for scum to have (since they would want to find out who's inspector/doctor/etc) than for an innocent to have.


Now that you mention it... role inspection seems like a somewhat _overpowered_ role for a scum to have. The mafia obviously already know who's not mafia, so the drawback of it not revealing someone's alignment would be moot; and it'd make it so that mafia wouldn't even have to wait for people to roleclaim to start killing based on roles. And they could also use it to verify roleclaims (i.e. if someone claimed doctor/inspector/something else useful and the mafia wanted to make sure they weren't an alien trying to get activated). I guess in this particular game, it'd be balanced out by powers like VM's... but didn't he say that his powers didn't work on mafia?

(This in no way means Nira's innocent - they could be lying about their role completely - but it does make me suspect them a bit less.)


----------



## M&F

*Re: Villainous Team Choice Pokémafia - Game Thread*

*Looker's daily report*

The "in-character" approach was an unsuccess. Well, this International Police agent is stirred, but not shaken, as they say! Today, I have instead relied on my natural skills and tried out the approach of stealthing. Hidden at plain sight, I was not noticed at all by the criminals, and I could learn much about what they were up to today.

In fact, there was an interesting event... about that *Ghetsis*. All the day, he was spouting some foolishness on how his vile plans were close to fruitation. That is all he ever talks about, I hear, but today, his tone and his words seemed just slightly unlike his usual fare. People found this to be evidence that this time, the boy crying fox was truly being assulted by a fox! Rather, the boy crying fox was, in fact, the fox! Something of roughly that nature.

Then, one of them turns his eyes to a potted plant in the room and says "Looker, I know you are over there pretending to be a potted plant, and I know you are a cop, so just do me a favor and take this guy away." Well! I have Mission Control to obey, and that is enough for me, so I took no orders from that ruffian. Specially not one who is so rude, to the point that he kicked down the pot and my entire back still hurts from the falling.

Ah, well, at least, his behavior was all the evidence I needed! To conclude, using only my sharp intellect, that this Ghetsis was one of the people wanting to break the jail. Now that I have made this brillant deduction, perhaps the warden will see this and think, "Oh! Such detective skills! It is almost as if he is actually a detective who was mistaken for a criminal!"

*Nira, the Ghetsis, is dead. He was mafia.

72 hours for night actions.*


----------



## M&F

*Re: Villainous Team Choice Pokémafia - Game Thread*

*Eleventh notch on Lysandre's cell wall.*

all immortality and no beauty makes Lysandre a tearful boy

all immortality and no beauty makes Lysandre a tearful boy all immortality and no beauty makes Lysandre a tearful boy

all immortality and no beauty makes Lysandre a tearful boy all immortality and no beauty makes Lysandre a tearful boy all immortality and no beauty makes Lysandre a tearful boy all immortality and no beauty makes Lysandre a tearful boy all immortality and no beauty makes Lysandre a tearful boy all immortality and no beauty makes Lysandre a tearful boy all immortality and no beauty makes Lysandre a tearful boy all immortality and no beauty makes Lysandre a tearful boy all immortality and no beauty makes Lysandre a tearful boy all immortality and no beauty makes Lysandre a tearful boy all immortality and no beauty makes Lysandre a tearful boy all immortality and no beauty makes Lysandre a tearful boy all immortality and no beauty makes Lysandre a tearful boy all immortality and no beauty makes Lysandre a tearful boy all immortality and no beauty makes Lysandre a tearful boy

Hm? You want to know about- oh. Well, *Wes* is dead. I don't care.

all immortality and no beauty makes Lysandre a tearful boy all immortality and no beauty makes Lysandre a tearful boy all immortality and no beauty makes Lysandre a tearful boy all immortality and no beauty makes Lysandre a tearful boy all immortality and no beauty makes Lysandre a tearful boy all immortality and no beauty makes Lysandre a tearful boy all immortality and no beauty makes Lysandre a tearful boy all immortality and no beauty makes Lysandre a tearful boy all immortality and no beauty makes Lysandre a tearful boy all immortality and no beauty makes Lysandre a tearful boy all immortality and no beauty makes Lysandre a tearful boy all immortality and no beauty makes Lysandre a tearful boy all immortality and no beauty makes Lysandre a tearful boy all immortality and no beauty makes Lysandre a tearful boy all immortality and no beauty makes Lysandre a tearful boy all immortality and no beauty makes Lysandre a tearful boy all immortality and no beauty makes Lysandre a tearful boy all immortality and no beauty makes Lysandre a tearful boy all immortality and no beauty makes Lysandre a tearful boy all immortality and no beauty makes Lysandre a tearful boy all immortality and no beauty makes Lysandre a tearful boy all immortality and no beauty makes Lysandre a tearful boy all immortality and no beauty makes Lysandre a tearful boy all immortality and no beauty makes Lysandre a tearful boy all immortality and no beauty makes Lysandre a tearful boy all immortality and no beauty makes Lysandre a tearful boy all immortality and no beauty makes Lysandre a tearful boy all immortality and no beauty makes Lysandre a tearful boy all immortality and no beauty makes Lysandre a tearful boy all immortality and no beauty makes Lysandre a tearful boy all immortality and no beauty makes Lysandre a tearful boy all immortality and no beauty makes Lysandre a tearful boy all immortality and no beauty makes Lysandre a tearful boy all immortality and no beauty makes Lysandre a tearful boy all immortality and no beauty makes Lysandre a tearful boy all immortality and no beauty makes Lysandre a tearful boy all immortality and no beauty makes Lysandre a tearful boy all immortality and no beauty makes Lysandre a tearful boy all immortality and no beauty makes Lysandre a tearful boy all immortality and no beauty makes Lysandre a tearful boy

*Kratos Aurion, the "Wes", is dead. They were innocent.

72 hours for discussion.*


----------



## Negrek

*Re: Villainous Team Choice Pokémafia - Game Thread*



Spoiler: biggish image












Well, I suppose it's time to come clean, isn't it? I managed to accomplish what I wanted last night, although I admit, the result wasn't what I expected.

As you might imagine, someone of my stature commands considerable resources, even from within the walls of this deplorably low-class prison. While the other so-called "Mafia" has been skulking around, causing trouble at night, I've had my own intelligence agents at work following their movement back to its source. Unfortunately, the somewhat draconian restrictions on outside communication in this place make it difficult for them to relay their discoveries, but a simple binary yes or no is easy enough to arrange. This is what they've sent me so far:



> N0: "Is the number of factions in this game equal to two?" _Yes_
> N1: "Did the game begin with three scum-aligned players?" _Yes_
> N2: "Was the power to swap the night actions that target two players given to a scum-aligned role?" _No_
> N3: "Was the (non-Lover) power to recruit others to communicate out-of-thread given to a Town role?" _Yes_
> N4: "Was the power to protect multiple other players at night given to a Town role?" _No_


Of particular interest is the result I saw last night. Evidently those loud young people who have been disturbing the peace these past few nights may not be so altruistic as they claimed.

(( lysandre u okay bro? ))


----------



## Butterfree

*Re: Villainous Team Choice Pokémafia - Game Thread*

WELL.

Either Negrek is mafia or Altissimo is. I've got to admit I'm definitely leaning towards Altissimo given _those vibes, man_. That said, it's sort of odd Negrek is here to give us this info: wouldn't the mafia have gone for her last night, after that bombshell of an inspectorish softclaim? JackPK, did you by any chance swap Negrek and Kratos, or something like that? (Of course, I suppose they could have been assuming Negrek would be protected.)


----------



## Butterfree

*Re: Villainous Team Choice Pokémafia - Game Thread*

(Of course, Negrek was also pretty active in keeping the pressure on Nira yesterday, while Altissimo made one post that didn't even address the Nira accusation.)


----------



## Autumn

*Re: Villainous Team Choice Pokémafia - Game Thread*



Butterfree said:


> WELL.
> 
> Either Negrek is mafia or Altissimo is.


Obviously I'm biased toward my own safety here. But... I'm pretty sure the answer is "Negrek" in this one.

I have my reasons for thinking this is true that go beyond the simple dichotomy of "well since I'm not Mafia there's only one answer here", but unfortunately typing those up will have to wait until I have more than like 5 minutes. Obviously if you want to go voting to lynch me in the meantime, I've got no method of stopping it. :/


----------



## Autumn

*Re: Villainous Team Choice Pokémafia - Game Thread*

I will say though that I say "I'm pretty sure" Negrek is mafia because I tend to play devil's advocate everywhere and there's also the possibility that Negrek is either a) self-aligned (which would not be better than Mafia admittedly) or b) an innocent who is lying because they really have it out for me or just really think I'm Mafia and want to get me out of the game. Obviously the likelihood of Negrek _actually being Mafia_ is higher than any of these but one of my life issues is that I can't say something with certainty unless it really is 100% certain.


----------



## Autumn

*Re: Villainous Team Choice Pokémafia - Game Thread*

Okay now I have some more time.

Here's the thing about Negrek's claim. A lot of that Oracle stuff is easy to claim retrospectively. Like, we were looking at Nira's actions with that idea that "every claim that was made was something that could have been gleaned by looking in thread and is retrospective" and Negrek's claim is kind of the same way? The first two questions Negrek (supposedly) asked of MF are pretty "safe" because they were things that could almost be expected if it wasn't a surprise bastard mafia, and plus Negrek didn't even make a mention of the information they (?) received - I mean yeah if you're oracle you're gonna want to be keeping your role a secret, but look at this:



			
				Negrek said:
			
		

> Given 2-4 scum players out of the remaining six, we'd have at least a 33% chance of hitting a scum player even if we randlynched.


This is from Day 3, after Negrek had presumably already asked MF about number of factions and number of scum-aligned players - assuming Negrek is telling the truth. I'm not sure why, then, they would choose to obfuscate things with "2-4 scum players" when it would have been easier to just go "I think we can assume that, in a game this size, there are three scum players" and people would probably agree without having a reason to think they gleaned this from a night action - in other words, it's not suspicious. But _if Negrek made up the night action retrospectively_ it makes a shitload more sense that of course they wouldn't have "known" there were three Mafia aligned players back then.

Further - and here's the rub - Negrek was the last one to claim. Even Nira who flipped Mafia claimed before Negrek did. This makes it real easy to say "oh yeah I'm the Oracle" because nobody else had claimed it.

Of course... that's not a role you (general you) really want to go around claiming because of the fact that it paints a target on your back. So, yeah, I get that being the last to claim is likely because of that reason if really innocent. But it's also a convenient excuse: "I was last to claim because I was Oracle" - really, "I was last to claim because I was Mafia scouting the other claims and oh, Oracle would be _counter-intuitive_ to claim, so that's a reason why I'm innocent." But like, _choosing_ Oracle to claim justifies the late claim and so therefore is a good claim for the Mafia to choose because of that. Does that make sense? It makes sense in my head.

Anyway, it's also really easy to fabricate claims with that in mind. ILS isn't lying about his role, and the fact that many of us have been pulled into the Secret Cabal confirms that. Further, it seems unlikely to me that such a role would be Mafia, and I think that was generally accepted. So, if the Oracle uses a "safe" role to claim as innocent, then that means they can basically get away with calling any other role, whatever alignment they want it to be, because they're already "trusted" due to claiming ILS as innocent. The idea, I imagine, is that a _Mafia member posing as Oracle_ wouldn't have a reason to specifically name a certain player as _innocent_ but it could totally be done for the sake of trust? Then if you even go so far as to say both Jack and ILS are innocent, one of those players is pretty much known to be innocent, while the other was under suspicion from multiple other players. Claiming Oracle and using ILS' safe role as a cover allows Negrek to protect both themselves and Jack by claiming Jack is innocent - since ILS is innocent then Negrek must be by extension, and if Negrek is innocent then that means they're likely telling the truth because an _innocent_ fabricating the Oracle role would be ... pretty dumb, and therefore by extension again Jack must be innocent.

So I'm pretty sure this is all an elaborate set-up, a back-formation made by Negrek to gain trust and protect themselves and Jack in one fell swoop. If you want proof, consider the fact Butterfree pointed out - Negrek didn't die last night, and it was not a no-kill night, so unless Flora has something she wants to share with the class about her vig role or Jack confesses to having swapped Kratos and Negrek (assuming Jack is innocent, which may be unlikely if Negrek is Mafia) then that means the mafia _didn't target Negrek_, and honestly I can't see a reason why that would be the case.

As for myself... I'm _in ILS' chat_ with Negrek. You'd think I'd have even more reason to kill them if I was the mafia considering they were openly suspicious of me there, _and then_ made a cryptic claim that indicated they might be able to see the alignments of players, somehow (not until this morning did we get confirmation of the exact details).

Of course, we have to keep this in mind: If I'm lynched today, I'll flip innocent. That would _immediately_ put a target on Negrek's back for obvious reasons, and the most likely outcome of that is that tomorrow Negrek has a strong chance of being lynched. Then the question obviously becomes "why would the Mafia fabricate all this shit for the sake of getting _one_ innocent player lynched"... and I don't know enough about how Negrek's mind works to answer that question. I don't know enough about how the Mafia roles work to answer that question, either. Maybe there's some secret power the Mafia has access to such that "ensuring" an Innocent lynch (or hell, maybe _me_ getting lynched, not that I have any idea why it'd be me specifically) today by way of this fabrication about my role is enough to set something up for success in the future - as opposed to just letting the cards fall where they fall and "hoping" that neither Negrek nor whoever is the third Mafia is (maybe it's Jack or maybe that was a second red herring) suspected of Mafiadom during the day phase today. Does that make any sort of sense?

Actually wait I just considered something. There are most likely 5 innocent and 2 Mafia players remaining in the game (even if not part of the Oracle role, 3 does seem like a reasonable number). MF's games tend to go such that if 50% of remaining players are Mafia, the Mafia wins, right? If Negrek is gunning for my lynch, I could see the game proceeding like this:

-I'm lynched. I'm innocent (4 innocent/2 Mafia remaining).
-Innocent is nightkilled (3 innocent/2 Mafia remaining).
-Negrek is lynched because of the reasons described above (3 Innocent/1 Mafia remaining).
-Innocent is nightkilled (2 Innocent/1 Mafia remaining).

Now, here's where I think Negrek is going with this. I said earlier that I wasn't sure why Negrek would claim me as Mafia because once I'm lynched and flip innocent, this obviously means Negrek has to be Mafia and "why would you waste your life over 1 innocent's" - well, here's what I think is the answer. I kind of implied earlier that Negrek might be using the Oracle cover as a way to make us trust them because of the ILS claim, and the idea would be that Negrek could protect themselves _and Jack_. I even said it's likely that Jack is mafia if Negrek is. Well, if/when Negrek flips Mafia, suspicion would likely fall on Jack because of all the reasons I've described, _plus_ the fact that people were suspecting Jack anyway. When the game is down to 2 innocents and 1 mafia... I suspect that Jack will one of the _Innocents_, the other innocent is probably ILS, and this means the last Mafia member is the 3rd player - but the idea is that ILS and the last Mafia member will be suspecting Jack because of the suspicious-by-proxy stuff, Jack gets lynched, Mafia wins.

So I think Oracle might be a convenient claim that's being used to set up a far-reaching plan utilizing the way people tend to act in Mafia games and psychology to all but "guarantee" the win. I'm simply the first one on the chopping block because I have the ability to prevent the night kill going through, even if I end up dying because of it... and because Butterfree was already suspicious of me, I'd imagine, helps to cement that decision.

I said in my last post that Negrek could be self-aligned or an innocent that has it out for me. There is a possibility Negrek is an activated alien from an earlier no-kill night (since I don't have any way of confirming if my heals worked) who is utilizing this oracle claim to get lynched for all the same reasons I've discussed, and that's definitely a possibility to keep in mind - and the whole reason I'm not voting for Negrek immediately yet. I think the Innocent-but-lying claim is a lot less likely than I initially thought, though, enough to be discounted.

But the fact of the matter is that I'm not Mafia and I'm pretty sure - no, _very_ sure - this is just an elaborate set-up. I can't prove it any more than I've already tried to, though... if I end up getting lynched, so be it. I've said my piece, I suppose, and there isn't any more I can do. I just hope I've prevented a convincing argument, because if not, like I said I can easily see this game proceeding right into the Mafia's hands.


----------



## JackPK

*Re: Villainous Team Choice Pokémafia - Game Thread*

I actually swapped Negrek and myself last night. I was assuming she was a straight up inspector, so I figured I was most valuable as a sacrifice to get another night's worth of inspection results. I guess the scum just went a different direction altogether.

Seven of us left, of whom two are scum (if Negrek's info is to be trusted). If we assume one of Negrek and Altissimo is scum, lynch wrong today, have a nightkill, lynch the other correctly tomorrow, and then have another nightkill, at no point does that put us in a losing situation (and we'll end up, worst case scenario, two day phases from now with three people left including one scum), so I think this is a fairly safe situation for us, thankfully.

Granted, that's based on the assumption that all the people we have left are either innocent or scum, with none self-aligned. That might throw a wrench into things.

In any case, I've been more lowkey suspicious of Altissimo than Negrek so far in this game, but that's been based on tone/general impressions rather than anything actually definitive, so I'm more than open to see what everyone else wants to do before I decide who to vote for.

(This was as much as I was going to write, but then I hit preview and wooooow Altissimo that's a long post that suddenly popped up)

So yeah, that's an _awful_ lot of reasoning that frankly seems to me like it's kind of meant to confuse us as to who is and isn't scum? Like, why are you saying I'm probably scum and then saying Negrek is just trying to make it look like I'm scum and that I'm actually innocent? I have legitimately no idea what you're trying to do here if not confuse people.

Hypothesis: Negrek and Altissimo are both scum, and they're trying to pull a ploy so whoever gets lynched first and flips scum "proves" the innocence of the other, because we've been operating under an either/or assumption.


----------



## Autumn

*Re: Villainous Team Choice Pokémafia - Game Thread*



JackPK said:


> So yeah, that's an _awful_ lot of reasoning that frankly seems to me like it's kind of meant to confuse us as to who is and isn't scum? Like, why are you saying I'm probably scum and then saying Negrek is just trying to make it look like I'm scum and that I'm actually innocent? I have legitimately no idea what you're trying to do here if not confuse people.


I... wasn't trying to confuse anyone???? My intent was basically sharing my thought process. My thought process went from "Negrek is protecting the other Mafia, Jack" to "NO WAIT THAT'S NOT IT THAT'S THE THING" but I wanted to at least leave my line of reasoning there for others to follow?

Okay, here, I'll make it less confusing, here's what I think is happening.



> Actually wait I just considered something. There are most likely 5 innocent and 2 Mafia players remaining in the game (even if not part of the Oracle role, 3 does seem like a reasonable number). MF's games tend to go such that if 50% of remaining players are Mafia, the Mafia wins, right? If Negrek is gunning for my lynch, I could see the game proceeding like this:
> 
> -I'm lynched. I'm innocent (4 innocent/2 Mafia remaining).
> -Innocent is nightkilled (3 innocent/2 Mafia remaining).
> -Negrek is lynched because of the reasons described above (3 Innocent/1 Mafia remaining).
> -Innocent is nightkilled (2 Innocent/1 Mafia remaining).
> 
> Now, here's where I think Negrek is going with this. I said earlier that I wasn't sure why Negrek would claim me as Mafia because once I'm lynched and flip innocent, this obviously means Negrek has to be Mafia and "why would you waste your life over 1 innocent's" - well, here's what I think is the answer. I kind of implied earlier that Negrek might be using the Oracle cover as a way to make us trust them because of the ILS claim, and the idea would be that Negrek could protect themselves and Jack. I even said it's likely that Jack is mafia if Negrek is. Well, if/when Negrek flips Mafia, suspicion would likely fall on Jack because of all the reasons I've described, plus the fact that people were suspecting Jack anyway. When the game is down to 2 innocents and 1 mafia... I suspect that Jack will one of the Innocents, the other innocent is probably ILS, and this means the last Mafia member is the 3rd player - but the idea is that ILS and the last Mafia member will be suspecting Jack because of the suspicious-by-proxy stuff, Jack gets lynched, Mafia wins.
> 
> So I think Oracle might be a convenient claim that's being used to set up a far-reaching plan utilizing the way people tend to act in Mafia games and psychology to all but "guarantee" the win. I'm simply the first one on the chopping block because I have the ability to prevent the night kill going through, even if I end up dying because of it... and because Butterfree was already suspicious of me, I'd imagine, helps to cement that decision.


This part of the post. This is what I believe.


----------



## I liek Squirtles

*Re: Villainous Team Choice Pokémafia - Game Thread*

I'd like to hear what Flora has to say. Depending on what she says, we might be able to glean some information.


----------



## Negrek

*Re: Villainous Team Choice Pokémafia - Game Thread*

I gotta admit, at the moment I'm contemplating taking a third option: neither I nor Altissimo is Mafia, and my result last night was spurious.

The entire _reason_ I rolechecked Altissimo last night was because I was feeling pretty confident she was innocent, and if she was I thought it would practically solve the game. I explained this in the post I made in ILS' quicktopic yesterday:



Spoiler: long



Okay, the night phase should now be nearly over, and hopefully unless MF's slow on starting the day again, there's no longer time for people to discuss this/change their night actions. If I survive the night, I'll flavorify this and post it in the main thread, modifying it with the results of my night action as appropriate. If I die, I'd appreciate if someone could C/P this to the main thread for me.

Anyway, I'm the Oracle. Here are my questions/answers for N0-N3:

N0: "Is the number of factions in this game equal to two?" _Yes_
N1: "Did the game begin with three scum-aligned players?" _Yes_
N2: "Was the power to swap the night actions that target two players given to a scum-aligned role?" _No_
N3: "Was the (non-Lover) power to recruit others to communicate out-of-thread given to a Town role?" _Yes_

So there are only two Mafia members left, and we don't need to worry about any aliens when we go to lynch. Like I said, ILS and Jack are innocent--only way they wouldn't be is if they'd somehow managed to swap roles with somebody (no indication of this kind of power being available).

This night I asked, "Was the power to protect multiple other players at night given to a Town role?"

I asked about Altissimo because if what she says about her power is true, I think it allows us to infer the innocence of some other players. In particular, it looks as though N3 Butterfree was most likely the target of a kill action, and likely the only kill action in play was a Mafia kill. Therefore, I think that if Altissimo's telling the truth, Butterfree is most likely innocent.

In that case, I'm innocent, ILS is innocent, Jack's innocent, Altissimo's innocent, and Butterfree's probably innocent. Zapi, Flora, and Kratos Aurion are unaccounted for, and two of them are Mafia (unless Butterfree's Mafia).

I think Kratos is the most likely innocent, simply because it seems pretty well-established that she started with a chameleon power and now has a dead-role-reporting power, and a chameleon power would be _awful_ to give to a Mafia-aligned player. It's just asking for something to go horribly wrong.

On the other hand, Flora is the one I believe _most_ likely to be Mafia. Her claim has bothered me from the start, and the fact that Nira included her in his list of night targets troubled me more. Everything else he included in that post was publicly-available info and didn't require him to make a claim that anyone could contradict. Mentioning Flora as his target N3 would be another safe play if she were also a Mafia member and could back him up if necessary.

I think, then, that if Altissimo's innocent the most probable Mafia members are Flora and, by process of elimination, Zapi.

But that's only if Altissimo's innocent! If not, things get a whole lot murkier. Therefore, I think determining whether her claim is true is of paramount importance. One way or another, there are only two Mafia members left, so there's at least a little time left to get stuff figured out.



_Why_ I was feeling confident she was innocent was that if she's not, it opens a lot of questions about what went on in previous nights. As far as I'm aware, Zero Moment's role is the only one that could actually have prevented a Mafia kill... but there were two nights without kills. No one else has claimed doctor/jailer/etc., and we know almost all the dead innocents' roles thanks to Kratos' power. What the hell happened that second time? Also, based on what Zapi said, two people targeted Jack last night. Nobody else owned up to that second target, and obviously whatever hit him wasn't a kill role. Then again, based on Nira, it looks quite likely that the Mafia have secondary non-killing roles to work with anyway.

However, there are Mafia roles that allow them to mess with inspectors' results. I think the usual form is you choose a name, a role, and yes or no, and then anybody with an inforole gets sent the appropriate one instead of their actual result. Perhaps a Mafia player sent me a "No" when I should have gotten "Yes." Of course, they'd have no way to know whether a "yes" or "no" would benefit them because they could only guess at what I'd be asking, but that's a 50/50 chance of fucking me up, anyway (and I hope they were assuming I was Inspector anyway). Further problem: this calls into question previous nights' results as well, and potentially the innocence of Jack/ILS as a result. I think that kind of info-scrambling power is typically one-use-only, mind, but we've seen some fairly powerful roles running around with few to no restrictions on them. Also, no one had claimed anything inforoleish up until me, so there may have been no call to use it until last night.

I didn't raise this possibility last night because I wanted to see what Altissimo's reaction would be. I have to admit, "NO, NEGREK, IT IS *YOU* WHO ARE THE MAFIAS" was not as innocent-indicative as I'd been hoping for (more an "I have no idea how that happened but I'm innocent I swear"), but it's also a pretty natural defensive reaction, so eh. It's possible that I'm clinging to the idea of her being innocent so hard simply because it would validate the theory I posted under the hide tag above (and gaze upon it, is it not beautiful and logical?), but all in all I'm baffled enough by the result that I think it bears pointing out that it doesn't _necessarily_ mean that Altissimo is Mafia.

Also, let's be real: if I were Mafia, trying to frame Altissimo like this is basically the dumbest move possible. People have been kind of "eh" over her the whole game, so if I wanted her lynched I could as easily have just tried to start a hint-train, like "ehhh I dunno I still don't really like Altissimo here, so if we can't come up with anybody better to lynch..." I would have been outing myself completely--I doubt people would let me stick around long after I'd made _that_ claim, lynched Altissimo, and had her flip innocent--and for what? Eliminating a player whom I could have gotten rid of much more safely through another method? If I were going to expose myself to a counterlynch as blatantly as that, I could have picked a far better target.

Jack's idea that we're both Mafia is another possibility, but that would be way too risky a play IMO. I would understand if maybe people had been gunning hard for one or both of us to die already, but I don't think I at least was at the top of people's suspect list after yesterday, and all this mess would do would be to draw a lot of attention to the both of us and more or less guarantee one of us got lynched. Were I Mafia, I would have preferred to continue lying low at this point rather than basically giving up my partner just in hopes that this would remove suspicion from the other long enough for them to win.

Anyway, yeah, that's where my reasoning stands. Welcome to my hell. (Also I bet MF is really enjoying this, that bastard.)

As to why I claimed today rather than yesterday, when everyone else was: as I said, I expected a positive result from my rolecheck, which would in turn pretty much seal up the game. Given that, I thought it was worth the risk not to completely reveal my role with the potential payoff being narrowing down the remaining Mafia almost to a man. I also wanted to obscure the fact that I was an Oracle and not an ordinary Inspector, because Inspectors are a little easier to fight--any target-disruption power can really fuck with them, for example, and if the Mafia has one of those on their side they might have decided to leave me alive and count on that to screw with my results. In addition, because I only claimed two people's alignments despite having four nights to work with, they might have thought I wasn't a traditional Inspector/Oracle at all and instead was using some indirect means to deduce those things, thus potentially making me a less interesting target. Finally, there was little downside: even if I died in the night, I could still post the entirety of my info to the private chat group when it was too late for the Mafia to do anything with it, so I didn't have to worry about taking any of my info to the grave. (Which I did, of course.) My thought that I was I only needed _one more night_--so why not take a gamble on it?

And come on, I didn't mention the three Mafia thing earlier because being very insistent about there being three would definitely have looked weird to approximately everyone. Most people were assuming ~3 anyway, and especially early in the game the precise math doesn't matter. Likewise, if people had been really "alien oh the noes" and it was messing with the day vote, I would have said something about it, but no one threw it out there as more than an idle possibility, and commenting on it would only have drawn attention to me.

Why wouldn't the Mafia target me last night? The usual reasons, I would guess: by not targeting people claiming powerful roles you throw suspicion on them _and_ are more likely to have your attack go through, on the assumption that the innocents will be using their own powers to try to defend that person.

All that aside, though, who did you protect last night, Altissimo? And whom did you target, Zapi?


----------



## Autumn

*Re: Villainous Team Choice Pokémafia - Game Thread*

I have a lot of thoughts about all this but unfortunately they will have to wait because I am a bit busy at the moment

I will, however, respond to this:



> All that aside, though, who did you protect last night, Altissimo? And whom did you target, Zapi?


I didn't. The way my role works is that I effectively have 4 uses of the heal-power, and on the 4th one, I die. I used 1, 2, and 3 on n1, 2, and 3, so I couldn't have used the 4th last night without dying, so I didn't. 

I wasn't really sure what to do last night. Like, I knew using it to keep you alive would be a definite thing... but I was also having some suspicions already about you, which is part of the reason I wrote that whole big textwall (for the record, your post is making me rethink _significantly_ about it, but I'll type my full thoughts up later) and I really didn't want to try and use my power unless I was _sure_ the person I was protecting was innocent and _sure_ the Mafia would target them and _sure_ that something else was unlikely to interfere (ex. Jack's swapping - which, in this case, I indeed would have been screwed by, if the Mafia had even targeted Jack/Negrek in the first place, which they obviously didn't - or Flora's vig kill). It's an unlikely combination to be sure of and I know I'm being selfish with it, but I also just... want to make sure it's useful if I can, since it kills me.


----------



## M&F

*Re: Villainous Team Choice Pokémafia - Game Thread*



Negrek said:


> (Also I bet MF is really enjoying this, that bastard.)


You bet.


----------



## I liek Squirtles

*Re: Villainous Team Choice Pokémafia - Game Thread*

We have a Most Fiendish GM on our hands...


----------



## Autumn

*Re: Villainous Team Choice Pokémafia - Game Thread*

Okay! I'll write some more now. (Sorry I'm so late in following up - I had a Skype interview yesterday for grad school, then I had to study for my social psychology test - just got out of that, totally aced it lol)

I will admit that my suspicions of Negrek are not entirely assuaged. However I'm pretty sure this is due to the perseverance effect (which we've discussed in social psychology, go figure) - basically, if people are told a faulty statement and then asked to come up with a reason why the faulty statement may be true, they will continue to believe in the faulty statement and their own justification of it even if they are explicitly told the faulty statement is faulty. I'm trying my hardest to keep that in mind but it's one of those cases where emotion (NEGREK IS TOTALLY MAFIA) is battling with logic (but look, Negrek made excellent points for why your justifications are wrong!) and it's affecting my outlook.

That being said. Negrek made good points. Specifically, the statement that she is not specifically targeting me and trying to claim I'm outright mafia, as well as the explanation of why Being Mafia and fabricating this whole Oracle/asking-about-my-mafia status shebang is ridiculous, are logical and actually make a lot more sense than the theories I posited. I'll admit to having been paranoid and reaching (more than a little) to draw some of those conclusions - it really is counterproductive to be mafia and use it for the purposes I suggested. But, like I said, I was just looking for reasons and using whatever I could, because I couldn't see a reason why the Oracle question would turn out that way unless Negrek was Mafia and fabricated it.

I say that, and don't make any mention of the idea that the real mafia used some sort of disruptive power to screw up Negrek's results, because I... admittedly forgot about that being a possibility. Since Negrek's claim wasn't inspector (which could have been affected by some other powers), I honestly couldn't think of a way in which the results could have been _false_, so in my mind the only way that such a statement could have been made was if Negrek was Mafia and trying to frame me. But, uh... the idea that the results got screwed with somehow makes... more sense, honestly. Like I said, I'm not 100% sure Negrek _isn't_ Mafia, but I'm a lot less suspicious now that that possibility has been raised.

Anyway... if Negrek indeed isn't Mafia and is telling the truth about the Oracle situation, then the whole analysis about Flora and Zapi being the Mafia by process of elimination makes sense. Flora seems more suspicious of the two and while I'd like to hear what she has to say, I don't know how much it's going to help. I'm leaning toward lynching Flora today. Anyone else have any thoughts or suspicions to share? (I don't really want to outright throw my lynch vote for Flora without at least giving her (and anyone who might have a defense of her) a chance to talk, but then again I'm... not so sure that's gonna happen given her track record of silence, lol)

tl;dr Negrek makes sense and I think lynching Flora is a good move today


----------



## Zapi

*Re: Villainous Team Choice Pokémafia - Game Thread*

Sorry this is so late, I was really busy this weekend and I only had time to read over stuff without actually responding. Also due to my busy-ness, I forgot to send in a night action last night, so. No one was targeted by my broadcasting. Sorry about that...

Anyway... I think what Negrek's saying makes sense in that it's likely either all of the answers they've received to their questions are correct, meaning that Altissimo is lying about her role; or the answer they received last night was messed with, meaning that Altissimo is not lying and it's likely that I and Flora are mafia. Given that I know I'm not mafia, I'm more inclined to go with the former theory, though my bias should be obvious lol. I mean, Altissimo has also been giving me mafia vibes throughout the entire game, but that's more of a hunch than anything else.

I definitely want to give Flora a chance to defend herself before voting to lynch her... I know I've stated before that I'm suspicious of her, and I still am, but we've still got a while to go before the discussion period is up, right?


----------



## Autumn

*Re: Villainous Team Choice Pokémafia - Game Thread*

... okay, since Flora hasn't had anything to say and the day phase is winding down, I don't know that there will be a problem if I throw in my vote for *Flora.*


----------



## M&F

*Re: Villainous Team Choice Pokémafia - Game Thread*

*Looker's daily report*

Today's fine methodology of information gathering is... cuisine! I should elaborify. See, some of the prisoners are making years today, so the warden decided to bake a cake. But he's not the type of man who gets his hands dirty, oh no, so he sent for some prisoners make the recipe happen. However, I'm sure you are familiar with the saying, "too many cooks will spoil the souffle". Only a few inmates were handpicked for the task -- and one of them was I, naturally. I know this is because the warden has already noticed my exceptional and diverse talents, although some of the prisoners were joking that it was only because "low-threat level" types were being assigned to the job.

But! What's most interesting is that, for some reason, one of my fellow chefs was insisting that we place a life-size edible replica of *Lovrina* in the bottom of the cake. I was more than a little surprised that he'd made such a thing in so little time, as anyone would be. Nonetheless, it was understandable, as we _were_, figuratively and literally, the cream of the cropping in the facility where confectionery is concerned! I don't know that our birthday gentlemen are necessarily such big fans, but the prisoners do ever know each other best.

Ah, but as for the report proper... Things appear to be orderly in the compound today.

*Flora, the Lovrina, is dead. She was innocent.

72 hour for night actions.*

(hope you'll enjoy that cake, Butterfree and Negrek!)


----------



## M&F

*Re: Villainous Team Choice Pokémafia - Game Thread*

Sorry this night ran as long as it did.

*Twelfth notch on Lysandre's cell wall.*

Yoooo... Man, I was all worked up and stuff, so one of the guys was like, hey, sniff this, all shoving a vase or something on my face, but now maaaaan! This is the best thing ever! I don't know what's going on but it's awesome.

I don't really feel like doing a lot more things other than eating a bunch (they got us cake yesterday! I didn't even mind the dead gal in there!), but I swear, I just got a buncha cool superpowers! Like... I can see sound now, you know? You get what I'm talking about. Like, if *two people target JackPK last night*, I can see the waves in the air. Like, whoosh! It's uber cool. I could fight crime now or something.

Oh, the jailbreaking thing? Who caaaaaares, man. I'm good. I bet they're all killing each other all over again, but I don't even care.

*No one has died.

72 hours for discussion.*


----------



## JackPK

*Re: Villainous Team Choice Pokémafia - Game Thread*

Last night I swapped myself and Negrek again, iirc

I'm on mobile and at work, so I can't really talk a whole lot, but no death sounds an awful lot like either A) inactive scum or B) Altissimo was lying about dying when she uses up the last bit of her healing power. We don't have anybody else that can outright prevent a death, do we?


----------



## JackPK

*Re: Villainous Team Choice Pokémafia - Game Thread*

OH YEAH and I was inducted into ILS's thingy, can't really look through the Quicktopic archive at the moment (again, am on mobile and at work) but yes, this is a thing that has happened


----------



## Autumn

*Re: Villainous Team Choice Pokémafia - Game Thread*



JackPK said:


> We don't have anybody else that can outright prevent a death, do we?


Not unless someone _else_ is lying about their power - either someone here has a mafia-stopping power somehow or they're a now-active alien. (Or the mafia was just inactive, but idk how likely that is.)

I wasn't lying about my power, though. I didn't use it last night.


----------



## Butterfree

*Re: Villainous Team Choice Pokémafia - Game Thread*

Well.

Last night's lack of a death makes it obvious that Altissimo's supposed role is _not_ the only thing that could result in no nightkill in this game. Given this, Negrek's reasoning for why Altissimo was probably be innocent breaks down - whatever happened last night may also be what happened on the previous nights with no kills, so the idea that Altissimo's healing power must be real to explain them is clearly discredited.

This brings me back to my mafia vibes about Altissimo, because have I mentioned I have serious mafia vibes about Altissimo and we have an Oracle result indicating she's fishy that it turns out we dismissed on flawed grounds. I mean, I am going to feel _pretty silly_ if it turns out Negrek is mafia after all, but seriously, I think it's Altissimo and Zapi, _unless_ Negrek has some further information for us.


----------



## Autumn

*Re: Villainous Team Choice Pokémafia - Game Thread*

I can protest all I want but that's obviously not gonna help matters, since I know I can't prove anything about my own innocence, unfortunately. ~_~

I will say though that while driving home yesterday I considered something - what if the Mafia have a restriction that they can only attack on every other night? I don't know why that would be the case but it's not like weirder things haven't happened.


----------



## Negrek

*Re: Villainous Team Choice Pokémafia - Game Thread*

I'm pretty bothered by the idea that there might be some kind of healer/roleblocker power still in the wild, simply because it doesn't square well with what we already know. ILS, Jack, and Zapi's powers have all pretty much as good as been confirmed, and ILS has demonstrably been using his recruit power every night except that one he skipped near the beginning. Jack's swap power has also pretty clearly been going on, although there's less confirmation of it going off every night, and Zapi's has been used more intermittently. Basically, even if someone has a death-preventing role _in addition_ to what they've claimed, I'd be extremely surprised if they could use _two_ powers in one night, which rules out most of the remaining players as the culprit right away.



> I will say though that while driving home yesterday I considered something - what if the Mafia have a restriction that they can only attack on every other night? I don't know why that would be the case but it's not like weirder things haven't happened.


That was actually a thing in one of the games I played in, although that was a _very strange_ game in that there were no actual mafia and just a bunch of players with specific independent win conditions. It was also set up so at least one person was capable of killing on any given night. (Of course, Nira's already toast, so .) It would seem strange to restrict the Mafia in that way unless they had some crazy power(s) to balance it with, though.

The every other night pattern is interesting, though, and I hadn't noticed it before now. But there's another pattern in there that I hadn't seen before, either--every night where there isn't a death, we get one of Zapi's messages, and they're _always talking about the number of people who targeted JackPK *and it's always two people targeting him*_. I have no clue what's going on with that; it's totally possible that it's just a coincidence, but it's incredibly weird. Some kind of fake system message? Something else going on? The night phase reports have been really, really strange when you actually look at them.

Ultimately, though, while that's rather unsettling, and if anyone has any ideas what's up with it, I don't think it has a great deal of bearing on who we should lynch from here on out.

As Butterfree pointed out, much of my reasoning yesterday hinged on Altissimo having been our healer, but based on the events of last night that doesn't appear to be the case. Also, I was worried about the potential for my results having been tampered with. However, if Altissimo _were_ innocent (and there weren't any crazy secondary powers running around!), only Butterfree or Flora could be the culprits, since they were the only ones who hadn't demonstrated their abilities. Flora flipping innocent ruled her out, so last night I asked:



> Was a Gladiator-like power given to an innocent-aligned role? _Yes_


I was actually mostly trying to confirm where there was a gladiator in the game at all, because it would be an incredibly powerful role on the Mafia side and I would assume someone with the power was innocent anyway as a result. In any case, Butterfree's the only one to have claimed it and the only person besides Altissimo not to have demonstrated any power, so I think this is a pretty good confirmation she's innocent. Which brings us down to Altissimo and Zapi as potential Mafiosi, then.

I'd be fine with voting for either of them, really, although if anybody has any thoughts about the weird pattern of night deaths, I'd love to hear them.


----------



## I liek Squirtles

*Re: Villainous Team Choice Pokémafia - Game Thread*

Kekeke... Time to reveal to the world the might of Team Meanies!

I thought the issue with this Jack chump was weird... It was _always_ Jack and _always_ two people. Either those are some huge coincidences or something fishy's up!

Now, check this out... there've only been three night kills. It makes no sense for the mafia to not kill every single night- why wouldn't they? That's usually their win condition. However, we have someone on our hands with a similar claim- a claim that if they use their power four times, they die! Altissimo, care to explain? 

Additionally, they approached both me and Kratos outside of the quicktopic expressing suspicion about Negrek's role- potentially the only role that could've disrupted the plan of the Mafiosi.

Finally useful for once, kekeke! *little sparkle from PMD shows up*


----------



## Autumn

*Re: Villainous Team Choice Pokémafia - Game Thread*



I liek Scythers said:


> Now, check this out... there've only been three night kills. It makes no sense for the mafia to not kill every single night- why wouldn't they? That's usually their win condition. However, we have someone on our hands with a similar claim- a claim that if they use their power four times, they die! Altissimo, care to explain?


... explain what, exactly? Are you implying that I was telling the truth about my claim about the four Quads thing being in effect but that it actually is applicable to _night kills?_ As clever as that would be for a Mafia role... don't MF's games usually have multiple mafia people capable of killing? If I were Mafia and had that restriction there'd be no reason why Nira or whoever else couldn't just kill in my stead, and it wouldn't make sense for the "four uses" thing to apply to all of the Mafia when it's based on the _Go-Rock Quads_, I don't think.



> Additionally, they approached both me and Kratos outside of the quicktopic expressing suspicion about Negrek's role- potentially the only role that could've disrupted the plan of the Mafiosi.


Honestly I was suspicious from _well_ before the roleclaim. The roleclaim just didn't actually do anything to make me un-suspicious. The fact that it is a threatening role is coincidental.

re: Negrek _also_ thinking I'm Mafia: again, I don't know that there is anything that I can use to prove my innocence since I'm as confused as you are on how these kills keep getting prevented and I don't have any ideas as to the no-kill-night coincidences with Jack and Zapi etc either. If you want to lynch me w/e, I'm getting too drained irl (grad school interview in Florida this weekend and a lot of schoolwork surrounding it) to expend the effort of putting up much of a fight (even if I know it's the wrong decision to lynch me >:/) since there isn't anything left me for me to say anyway.


----------



## Negrek

*Re: Villainous Team Choice Pokémafia - Game Thread*

Welll, since nobody else seems inclined, I guess I'll start the voting. *Altissimo*


----------



## Autumn

*Re: Villainous Team Choice Pokémafia - Game Thread*

Of course there's only one thing I can do to try to protect myself, we all know what that is... *Negrek*


----------



## JackPK

*Re: Villainous Team Choice Pokémafia - Game Thread*

Not really sure what to believe, but I'm honestly leaning a little more toward *Altissimo*. Everybody has pretty much been able to defend themselves convincingly (either that or I'm not paying enough attention, I guess), but Altissimo just doesn't seem to have been doing a ton of trying to convince us on this particular day.

A thought: Negrek pointed out the messages have only been sent on days without a death. Might that be an either/or scum power: kill or send a message?


----------



## Autumn

*Re: Villainous Team Choice Pokémafia - Game Thread*



JackPK said:


> Not really sure what to believe, but I'm honestly leaning a little more toward *Altissimo*. Everybody has pretty much been able to defend themselves convincingly (either that or I'm not paying enough attention, I guess), but Altissimo just doesn't seem to have been doing a ton of trying to convince us on this particular day.


I tried very hard on previous days and it didn't work, as it seems. I'm not defending myself mostly because I don't see any way that I can. If people are convinced I'm mafia and have come up with reasons that must be true, then no amount of defense on my part is actually going to change anything. That's actually real psychology. So I'm like, why bother since I know how this works psychologically and nothing I say will make a difference?

Plus I'm just super busy this week and am leaving for Florida tonight so this isn't something that's at the top of my priority list. So if people want to lynch me, fine, I guess. I'm not withdrawing my vote for Negrek mostly because it's the only thing I can really do to prevent that but... whatever


----------



## Negrek

*Re: Villainous Team Choice Pokémafia - Game Thread*



> A thought: Negrek pointed out the messages have only been sent on days without a death. Might that be an either/or scum power: kill or send a message?


Could be, but wouldn't that be the worst power ever? Why would you choose _not_ to kill in favor of getting information about how many people had targeted another player? (And why the same player every damn time?)

Obviously if a different member of the Mafia was going to be the one to use their kill power for the night, there would be no reason *not* to use a shouting power, so that would make sense. Alternatively, if there were some _global_ restriction on one of the Mafiosi's powers, i.e. "If you use this power, no member of the Mafia may make a kill action tonight," and that power was also one that could only be used every other night as well, then that would also make sense. Otherwise I still find it really puzzling.


----------



## Butterfree

*Re: Villainous Team Choice Pokémafia - Game Thread*



Altissimo said:


> I tried very hard on previous days and it didn't work, as it seems. I'm not defending myself mostly because I don't see any way that I can. If people are convinced I'm mafia and have come up with reasons that must be true, then no amount of defense on my part is actually going to change anything. That's actually real psychology. So I'm like, why bother since I know how this works psychologically and nothing I say will make a difference?


Not... really? Like, yeah, it's a fact about everyday psychology that people tend to convince themselves of a position and then admit evidence that supports it and find excuses to reject evidence that doesn't, but you can't take that and say "THEREFORE these specific people are 100% definitely never going to change their minds on this specific thing", _especially_ not in an artificial situation very _unlike_ real life such as a mafia game. If you could infer that, then it would mean nobody in the history of ever has ever changed their mind on a thing, which is obviously false, and especially false in mafia games where people change their minds _all the time_ when they get new information.

That said, it's totally understandable if you just don't have the time or energy to participate at this point! You've been an excellent player thus far. Have fun in Florida.

*Altissimo*, nothing personal.


----------



## Autumn

*Re: Villainous Team Choice Pokémafia - Game Thread*



Butterfree said:


> Not... really? Like, yeah, it's a fact about everyday psychology that people tend to convince themselves of a position and then admit evidence that supports it and find excuses to reject evidence that doesn't, but you can't take that and say "THEREFORE these specific people are 100% definitely never going to change their minds on this specific thing", _especially_ not in an artificial situation very _unlike_ real life such as a mafia game. If you could infer that, then it would mean nobody in the history of ever has ever changed their mind on a thing, which is obviously false, and especially false in mafia games where people change their minds _all the time_ when they get new information.


More specifically I'm referring to a psychological phenomenon (can't remember the name of it offhand, but it was in my psych textbook - persistence effect or something?) where, when people are given a statement (which has prior been proven to be false, but the people being told the statement don't know that) and _asked to come up with reasons why the statement might be true..._ something like 70% of people end up persisting in the belief, even after told that the statement is false and proven to be false. Effectively, once a person justifies to themselves a reason why something else might be true, they have a hell of a time dis-convincing themselves of it in the face of contradicting evidence. Since you and Negrek and Jack have justified reasons why I might be/am Mafia (ignoring Negrek's oracle information because there were reasons apart from that), I don't expect that there's a lot I could do to turn that around. If real people, when shown _proof_ that their self-created beliefs are wrong, cannot dis-convince themselves of them, how are _claims_ on my part supposed to help? :/

But I might just be over-thinking this and ignoring the fact that psychology aside this is a _Mafia game._ I'm in two psych classes and am applying all of my learning all over the damn place regardless of what the actual context is lol i might be turning into one of Those People

Anyway I'm in a car and I can't use too much data on my mom's portable wi fi thingy so I probably won't be back again before MF pronounces the death knell on me (assuming it's on time)!! Alas


----------



## M&F

*Re: Villainous Team Choice Pokémafia - Game Thread*



Altissimo said:


> (assuming it's on time)


Nope! And yet.

-----

*Looker's daily report*

Today, in my newest effort to investigate, I went poking around. You might say, Looker, you buffoon, poking around and investigating are the exact same things. But that, my friends, is the sort of distinction you learn when you become an experienced International Police officer! You see, "poking around", as the name implies, it has this physical element...

... And besides, I was "poking around" in the literary sense. Most of the prisoners simply said things like "ouch" or "stop jabbing my appendix" or "what in the funk are you doing", but the one that stood out the most to me was *Altissimo*. The pressure of my pointer finger seemed to send her stumbling backwards, and then, all of a sudden, she fell down so hard, she split into four separate people! Their faces felt familiar, I had the distinct impression that they were in a band. Ah, well. Falling back and directly into a wall must have been very fatiguing for them, seeing as they have been napping on the floor ever since! The silly gooseis. 

Unfortunately, however, I have discovered little else. Although, the bruises I have gotten from other inmates do add to my dashing, hard-boiled looks.

*Altissimo, the Go-Rock Quads, is dead. She was, like, four mafia.

72 hours for night actions.*


----------



## Autumn

*Re: Villainous Team Choice Pokémafia - Game Thread*

so it goes.


----------



## Zero Moment

*Re: Villainous Team Choice Pokémafia - Game Thread*

rip X4


----------



## Autumn

*Re: Villainous Team Choice Pokémafia - Game Thread*

rip in piss


----------



## M&F

*Re: Villainous Team Choice Pokémafia - Game Thread*

*Thirteenth notch on Lysandre's cell wall.*

Why, oh why, _oh why_, in the name of everything that is holy or spoiled by the stain of human kind, did I accept a strange substance from a strange person? This torture may pale compared to the sorry situations I've found myself in as an immortal who happened to be in a crumbling underground building, and yet, the agony is very present and very real. Hrrrrrrrrrmmmmmmmm.

But, ah, there are perhaps some good news to glean from this absolute mess. Last night... well, I believe I will no longer find my sleep disrupted by any more of that "JackPK this, JackPK that" nonsense. After all, *Petrel*'s screams of deathly despair were the disturbance of my peace in the dusk previous. Right now, losing that sleep only adds to the sheerness of my migraine, but on the long term, perhaps I will finally restore my sleeping schedule. And that day, perhaps, the beauty will return.

... You're saying something about how awful it is that I seem to be stone-faced before such tragedy as the loss of human life? Ha. The excess of human life is pushing our world to its limits, but there is no such a thing as an excess of beauty, even if I strive to approach that impossible apex. Thus, I know which of these two matters the most to me. Now, then, if I can perhaps arrange for a more comfortable pillow, that my plan may be likelier to succeed...

*JackPK, the Petrel, is dead. He was innocent.

72 hours for discussion.*


----------



## Autumn

*Re: Villainous Team Choice Pokémafia - Game Thread*

gud


----------



## Negrek

*Re: Villainous Team Choice Pokémafia - Game Thread*



> Was the power to cause bold messages to appear during the day phase given to an innocent-aligned role? _Yes_


well

I reeeeally should have asked "given to a Mafia-aligned role" instead, because actually we don't know what Flora's power(s) was or if she ever used them, so she might also have had some sort of system message power, idk.


----------



## Butterfree

*Re: Villainous Team Choice Pokémafia - Game Thread*

Weeell, it's definitely looking like our last mafia is *Zapi*.


----------



## I liek Squirtles

*Re: Villainous Team Choice Pokémafia - Game Thread*

I targeted *Zapi* last night, but someone redirected my action to Negrek. :P


----------



## Negrek

*Re: Villainous Team Choice Pokémafia - Game Thread*

I'm wary, but... I do think *Zapi* is the best overall choice at the moment, yes.


----------



## Zapi

*Re: Villainous Team Choice Pokémafia - Game Thread*

Sorry for not being around much these past few days, but can someone catch me up on why I'm being suspected all of a sudden...? tried reading through posts from the past few days but i'm too sleepy/confused i think whoops


----------



## Negrek

*Re: Villainous Team Choice Pokémafia - Game Thread*

Process of elimination and the fact that your power has a weird tendency to go off _only_ on nights when the Mafia don't kill anyone, and then always targeting Jack.


----------



## Zapi

*Re: Villainous Team Choice Pokémafia - Game Thread*

Ah, that's... understandable? I genuinely have no idea why my powers have ended up targeting Jack so many times - he's just so happened to swap himself with whoever I was targeting that many times, which I agree sounds suspicious, but... it's the only explanation I have. Nor do I know why it's happened to coincide with no-kill nights... I think the explanation that the mafia can only kill every other night for some reason is the most sensible I've seen based on what we know from the game, but there's probably something else I'm missing...

The best I can do at this point is list who I targeted each night, and hope it helps my case in some way:


Spoiler: targets



N0 I didn't target anyone. Wasn't sure how to best use my power yet, etc.
N1 I targeted Nira. iirc my reasoning was, I was suspicious of Jack at that point, and if someone would have targeted Nira (who voiced suspicion of Jack in the thread just before the end of D1) it would have maybe pointed to him even if Nira didn't die? But then Jack swapped himself with Nira.
N2 I targeted Negrek, as decided by RNG.
N3 I targeted Flora (again from RNG), who Jack apparently swapped himself with.
N4 I forgot to turn in a night action.
N5 I targeted Negrek. I can't remember if this was RNG again or if I had some other reason.
N6 (last night) I, again, forgot to turn in a night action.


I'll throw in a vote for *Butterfree*, because my mild suspicions of her roleclaim still haven't entirely been assuaged. In case I get lynched anyway: good luck catching the actual mafia, I guess?


----------



## M&F

*Re: Villainous Team Choice Pokémafia - Game Thread*

*Looker's final report*

Once again, the genius that is Looker has come through! By a very simple process of deduction, I have, all by myself, discovered the last of the criminals inside the criminals -- *Zapi*! I would have turned that one in for a resounding incarceration, but some of the more civilized inmates, convinced of some silly idea that they were the ones to solve the mystery, have insisted that they will be applying their personal their personal brand of justice instead. I have graciously allowed them to live out their fantasy, on the one condition that, at the end of it, the crook should be sent off to jail.

Now that my work is finished, I should abandon this silly prisoner wardrobe and return to the headquarters. After all, even as I pen this, another mystery is beginning to take shape, someplace far away. I wonder what my next assignment shall be?

-----

*Fourteenth notch on Lysandre's cell wall.*

It is hard to believe that two weeks have passed. Both in the sense that it has been quite some time, and in the sense that it has been too little time for the state of affairs to have already become so deplorable.

However, this otherwise plain notch in the passage of time may yet to prove a promising point of turning. With one Archie dead in the water as it were, it may appear as if we have seen the last of the prisoners attempting a jailbreak, dead and caught. However... even now, there remain inmates who may harbor and develop those plans after all.

Just now, I happened to be privy to some ruckus in the warden's room, resulting from an inmate's unsuccessful bluffing. I believe he was trying to convince the authorities that he was a member of the International Police, and that he was merely posing as a prisoner in order to carry out an undercover investigation. I'll freely admit that the sheer folly cracked a small smile across my weary face for a fleeting moment.

Ineffectual as though this particular case may be, I am struck by the sense that this compound is bound by fate to boil with conflicts just underneath the surface. However... when one sees the body count left just by the altercation that spread across this week... One may be tempted to dream of the day when the facility and the inmates alike have seen their numbers and resources spread so thin, that they may not be able to put a stop to the escape of a prisoner who has lost his fear of death.

And that day... beauty shall finally return to the world.

-----

*Zapi, the Archie, is dead. She was mafia.

Town wins!*



Spoiler: Role PM log (ps.: please start an argument over whose rap sheet is the most metal)



[hide=Superbird]
Given name: *Courtney*
Former affiliation: Team Magma
Accusations include: Theft, robbery, breaking and entering, unleashing an ancient all-consuming catastrophe upon the world (as accomplice, attempted), actively preventing a different all-consuming catastrophe from destroying the world (attempted), truancy (in Pokémon Emerald)
Mugshot:






Psychological report:
Appears to be *Innocent*.
Will win when all scum players are dead, even if she is also dead.

"Powers":
SUPER RECON - When used at night, targets a dead player and another, living player (both chosen by the user; living target cannot be oneself). At the end of the night, if this action is successful, the living player will be informed of the dead player's "powers". This "power" is good for only five uses, and expending the final use will cause the user's death.





Spoiler: Vipera Magnifica



Given name: *Cyrus*
Former affiliation: Team Galactic
Accusations include: Theft, terrorism, disturbing local wildlife, fraud, racketeering, Pokémon abuse, destroying the entire universe (attempted), enraging a violent eldritch monster from another dimension, making hundreds of people wear stupid outfits
Mugshot:






Psychological report:
Appears to be *Innocent*.
Will win when all scum players are dead, even if he is also dead.

"Powers":
END STRIFE - When used at night, the user can designate killing- and voting-type actions and/or disruptive-type actions in order to prevent any actions of the selected type(s) from being used by Innocent-aligned players in this night.





Spoiler: Flora



Given name: Lovrina
Former affiliation: Cipher
Accusations include: Theft, extortion, kidnapping, Pokémon abuse, making "fetch" happen (attempted)
Mugshot:






Psychological report:
Appears to be *Innocent*.
Will win when all scum players are dead, even if she is also dead.

"Powers":
SO MUCH DISLIKE - When used at night, targets a player (chosen by the user) and kills that player. If this "power" targets a player of Guilty alignment, its user dies at the end of the night.





Spoiler: Butterfree



Given name: *Natural "N" Harmonia Gropius*
Former affiliation: Team Plasma
Accusations include: N did nothing wro- hey, who are you and how did you hijack the compound database _again_?
Mugshot:






Psychological report:
Appears to be *Innocent*.
Will win when all scum players are dead, even if he is also dead.

"Powers":
TRUTH VERSUS IDEALS - When used at night, targets two different players (chosen by the user; self-targeting is permitted). If the action is successful, at the beginning of the next Day phase, a fight will break out between the two targeted players, changing the structure of the Day poll such that: only the targeted players may speak, and only players other than the targeted players may cast votes, and they may only vote for one of the targeted players. This "power" is good for only one use and will disappear after being used successfully.





Spoiler: I Liek Squirtles



Given name: *Gengar*
Former affiliation: Team... Meanies?
Accusations include: Look, I have no idea, this guy just waltzed in here the other day saying he "used to be a human" and wanted to turn himself in?
Mugshot:





(credit: Toastypk)

Psychological report:
Appears to be *Innocent*.
Will win when all scum players are dead, even if he is also dead.

"Powers":
ENTER DREAM - When used, targets a player (chosen by the user) and, at the end of the night, if successful, allows the user to communicate privately with that player. Multiple players affected by this "power" may communicate with each other as well, but only while the original user is alive.





Spoiler: Nira



Given name: *Ghetsis* "freaking" *Harmonia*
Former affiliation: Team Plasma
Accusations include: Theft, robbery, fraud, extortion, obstruction of justice, Pokémon abuse, child abuse, resisting arrest, escaping from custody, blasting an entire city with ice missiles, murder (attempted), exposing young children to a choir that sounds a whole lot like they're singing "penis" over and over
Mugshot:






Psychological report:
Appears to be *Guilty*. Engage carefully -- behaves unpredictably and tends to launch off on tirades about his purpoted diabolical plans.
Will win if 50% of the living players are Guilty, even if he is dead.
His accomplices are not currently known. Seems to have no contact with the accomplices -- they don't seem to be aware of him at all, in fact. It seems that they might be able to discover his identity and establish communication with him, but at the expense of his "powers".

"Powers":
GATHER KNOWLEDGE - When used at night, targets a player (chosen by the user) and, at the end of the night, if successful, reveals the targeted player's "powers" to the user. Cannot be used in the same night as Cane Plunge.
CANE PLUNGE - When used at night, targets a player (chosen by the user) and prevents that player from activating their "powers" during the same night. Cannot be used in the same night as Gather Knowledge.





Spoiler: Negrek



Given name: *Giovanni*
Former affiliation: Team Rocket
Accusations include: Theft, disturbing the peace, corrupting the youth, fossil smuggling, running an illegal gambling enterprise, breaking and entering, kidnapping, extortion (attempted), Pokémon abuse, perpetuating harmful Italian stereotypes
Mugshot:






Psychological report:
Appears to be *Innocent*.
Will win when all scum players are dead, even if he is also dead.

"Powers":
BROADCAST RECEIVED - When used at night, allows the player to send the GM a question to gain information about the setup. This must be a yes-or-no question, and it may only regard information that existed before the players were assigned to their alignments and roles (ie, "is x scum" or "did x kill y" are not viable questions, but "is there a doctor" is). The answer is received at the end of the night, if the action is successful.





Spoiler: Zapi



Given name: *Archie*
Former affiliation: Team Aqua
Accusations include: Theft, robbery, crimes against the environment (attempted), breaking and entering, hijacking a vehicle, unleashing an ancient all-consuming catastrophe upon the world (attempted), swimming in unauthorized locations
Mugshot:






Psychological report:
Appears to be *Guilty*. After unsuccessfully lobbying 89 times to officialize "Talk Like a Pirate Day" in the compound's calendar, seems to have secretly decided to just break out.
Will win if 50% of the living players are Guilty, even if he is dead.
Suspected accomplice: *The Go-Rock Quads (Altissimo)*. Apparently capable of communicating with the accomplices away from the compound's surveillance. Also suspected to have another, currently unknown accomplice; thought to be able to use a night action (along with any others) to discover that accomplice's identity and gain communication with them (both at the end of the night), but doing so is thought to remove that accomplice's "powers".

"Powers":
KEELHAUL - When used at night, targets a player (chosen by the user) and kills that player. Cannot be used in the same night as the accomplice's "power". If the targeted player has activated an informative-type power during the same night, that player is not killed by this power. If the targeted player is not killed by this power for any reason, the user is instead informed of the targeted player's powers.





Spoiler: JackPK



Given name: Many, but "*Petrel*" occours most commonly
Former affiliation: Team Rocket
Accusations include: Theft, disturbing local wildlife, kidnapping, identity theft, fraud, overconfident villain babble
Mugshot:






Psychological report:
Appears to be *Innocent*.
Will win when all scum players are dead, even if he is also dead.

"Powers":
MASTER OF DISGUISE - When used at night, targets two different players (chosen by the user, self-targeting is permitted). If any other powers activating in the same night would target the first player, they will target the second player instead, and vice-versa.





Spoiler: Kratos Aurion



Given name: *Fein*, but insistently refers to self as *"Wes"*
Former affiliation: Claims to be ex-Team Snagem, but was arrested as a Cipher peon
Accusations include: Theft, identity theft, calumny, Pokémon abuse, doing a Beatles joke outdated by almost four decades (at the occasion)
Mugshot:






Psychological report:
Appears to be *Innocent*.
Will win when all scum players are dead, even if he is also dead.

"Powers":
IMPERSONATE - The first time an Innocent-aligned player dies in the game, this power changes into that player's powers.





Spoiler: Zero Moment



Given name: *Gonzap*
Former affiliation: Team Snagem
Accusations include: Theft, robbery, Pokémon abuse, illegal steroid smmugling
Mugshot:






Psychological report:
Appears to be *Innocent*.
Will win when all Guilty players are dead, even if he is also dead.

"Powers":
BUFF REBUFF - Constantly active (does not require an activating action). Each time you're targeted by a night action that you haven't been targeted by at least once: that action's target becomes a different, randomly chosen player, and, at the end of the night, you will be informed of the description of the power that you were initially targeted by.





Spoiler: Altissimo



Given nameS: *Billy, Tiffany, Clyde, Garret*
Former affiliation: Go-Rock Squad (all four)
Accusations include: Disturbing local wildlife (all four), violating local noise regulations (all four), making people carry her shopping bags (Tiffany), standoffish artistic integrity (Clyde), sassing a court officer (Garret), assaulting the same court officer (Billy), stacking together inside a trenchcoat and insisting that they are a single person (all four)
MugshotS:






Psychological report:
Appear to be *Guilty*. Claim that they were actually just hired to do a prison gig and are now attempting to break out of the compound.
Will win if 50% of the living players are Guilty, even if the four of them are dead.
Suspected accomplice: *Archie (Zapi)*. Apparently capable of communicating with the accomplice away from the compound's surveillance. Also suspected to have another, currently unknown accomplice; thought to be able to use a night action (along with any others) to discover that accomplice's identity and gain communication with them (both at the end of the night), but doing so is thought to remove that accomplice's "powers".

"Powers":
SUPER GO-ROCK DOGPILE ATTACK - When used at night, targets a player (chosen by the user) and kills that player. Cannot be used in the same night as the accomplice's "power". If the targeted player has activated a disruption-type power during the same night, that player is not killed by this power. If the targeted player is not killed by this power for any reason, in the beginning of the next day, it will be publically revealed that the targeted player was targeted by someone in the previous night (the identity of the targeting player(s) will not be revealed, but the amount of targeting players will be revealed).


[/hide]



Spoiler: Action log






Spoiler: Night Zero



=NIGHT ZERO=
Vipera Magnifica(Cyrus) does not use END STRIFE.
JackPK(Petrel) does not use MASTER OF DISGUISE.
Zapi(Archie) uses KEELHAUL. Superbird(Courtney) is bleeding.
Flora(Lovrina) does not use SO MUCH DISLIKE.
Butterfree(N) does not use TRUTH VERSUS IDEALS.
ILS(Gengar) uses ENTER DREAM, targeting Altissimo(Go-Rock Quads).
Negrek(Giovanni) uses BROADCAST RECEIVED, asking the question: "Is the number of factions in this game equal to two?".
Nira(Ghetsis) uses GATHER KNOWLEDGE, investigating Altissmo(Go-Rock Quads).
END OF NIGHT: Superbird dies. Negrek's question is answered "yes". Nira discovers Altissimo's powers. ILS gains private comms with Altissimo. Kratos Aurion("Wes") inherits Superbird's powers.





Spoiler: Day/Night One



=DAY ONE=
No one is lynched.

=NIGHT ONE=
Vipera Magnifica(Cyrus) does not use END STRIFE.
JackPK(Petrel) uses MASTER OF DISGUISE to swap himself and Nira(Ghetsis) around.
Altissimo(Go-Rock Quads) uses SUPER GO-ROCK DOGPILE ATTACK. Due to MASTER OF DISGUISE, JackPK(Petrel) is attacked. As JackPK(Petrel) has activated a disruptive power this night, JackPK(Petrel) is not killed. Instead, the amount of players who have targeted JackPK(Petrel) will be published.
Flora(Lovrina) does not use SO MUCH DISLIKE.
Butterfree(N) does not use TRUTH VERSUS IDEALS.
ILS(Gengar) uses ENTER DREAM, targeting Kratos Aurion("Wes").
Negrek(Giovanni) uses BROADCAST RECEIVED, asking the question: "Did the game begin with three scum-aligned players?".
Nira(Ghetsis) uses GATHER KNOWLEDGE, investigating JackPK(Petrel). Due to MASTER OF DISGUISE, however, Nira(Ghetsis) will investigate Nira(Ghetsis).
Kratos Aurion("Wes") uses SUPER RECON, investigating Superbird(Courtney) and sending the results to Butterfree(N).
END OF NIGHT: Negrek's question is answered "yes". Nira discovers Nira's role powers (gasp!). Butterfree discovers Superbird's role powers, due to Kratos Aurion's power. ILS gains private comms with Kratos Aurion. The amount of players who targeted JackPK (2) is published as Altissimo couldn't kill him.





Spoiler: Day/Night Two



=DAY TWO=
No one is lynched.

=NIGHT TWO=
Vipera Magnifica(Cyrus) uses END STRIFE, blocking off all of town's disrupting night powers.
JackPK(Petrel) attempts to use MASTER OF DISGUISE to swap I Liek Squirtles(Gengar) and Flora(Courtney) around. END STRIFE prevents the power from being activated.
Nira(Ghetsis) does not use CANE PLUNGE or GATHER KNOWLEDGE.
Altissimo(Go-Rock Quads) uses SUPER GO-ROCK DOGPILE ATTACK. Zero Moment(Gonzap)'s BUFF REBUFF activates. The action is not redirected due to END STRIFE. Zero Moment(Gonzap) is bleeding.
The accomplices calls Nira(Ghetsis) back.
Flora(Lovrina) does not use SO MUCH DISLIKE.
Butterfree(N) does not use TRUTH VERSUS IDEALS.
ILS(Gengar) does not use ENTER DREAM.
Negrek(Giovanni) uses BROADCAST RECEIVED, asking the question: "Was the power to swap the night actions that target two players given to a scum-aligned role?".
Kratos Aurion("Wes") does not use SUPER RECON.
END OF NIGHT: Zero Moment(Gonzap) discovers the description of SUPER GO-ROCK DOGPILE ATTACK as a result of being targeted and dies. Negrek's question is answered "no". Nira(Ghetsis) is revealed to the accomplices and gains the ability to communicate with them, but loses his other powers.





Spoiler: Day/Night Three



=DAY THREE=
Vipera Magnifica(Cyrus) is lynched.

=NIGHT THREE=
JackPK(Petrel) uses MASTER OF DISGUISE to swap himself and Flora(Lovrina) around.
Altissimo(Go-Rock Quads) uses SUPER GO-ROCK DOGPILE ATTACK. Due to MASTER OF DISGUISE, JackPK(Petrel) is attacked. As JackPK(Petrel) has activated a disruptive power this night, JackPK(Petrel) is not killed. Instead, the amount of players who have targeted JackPK(Petrel) will be published.
Flora(Lovrina) does not use SO MUCH DISLIKE.
Butterfree(N) does not use TRUTH VERSUS IDEALS.
ILS(Gengar) uses ENTER DREAM, targeting Negrek(Giovanni).
Negrek(Giovanni) uses BROADCAST RECEIVED, asking the question: "Was the (non-Lover) power to recruit others to communicate out-of-thread given to a Town role?".
Kratos Aurion("Wes") uses SUPER RECON, investigating Zero Moment(Gonzap) and sending the results to ILS(Gengar).
END OF NIGHT: Negrek's question is answered "yes". ILS discovers Zero Moment's role powers, due to Kratos Aurion's power. ILS gains private comms with Negrek. The amount of players who targeted JackPK (2) is published as Altissimo couldn't kill him.





Spoiler: Day/Night Four



=DAY FOUR=
Dazel(Ghetsis) is lynched.

=NIGHT FOUR=
JackPK(Petrel) uses MASTER OF DISGUISE to swap himself and Negrek(Giovanni) around.
Altissimo(Go-Rock Quads) uses SUPER GO-ROCK DOGPILE ATTACK. Kratos Aurion ("Wes") is bleeding.
Flora(Lovrina) does not use SO MUCH DISLIKE.
Butterfree(N) does not use TRUTH VERSUS IDEALS.
ILS(Gengar) uses ENTER DREAM, targeting Butterfree(N).
Negrek(Giovanni) uses BROADCAST RECEIVED, asking the question: "Was the power to protect multiple other players at night given to a Town role?".
Kratos Aurion("Wes") does not use SUPER RECON.
END OF NIGHT: Kratos Aurion("Wes") dies. Negrek's question is answered "no". ILS gains private comms with Butterfree(N).





Spoiler: Day/Night Five



=DAY FIVE=
Flora(Lovrina) is lynched.

=NIGHT FIVE=
JackPK(Petrel) uses MASTER OF DISGUISE to swap himself and Negrek(Giovanni) around.
Altissimo(Go-Rock Quads) uses SUPER GO-ROCK DOGPILE ATTACK. Due to MASTER OF DISGUISE, JackPK(Petrel) is attacked. As JackPK(Petrel) has activated a disruptive power this night, JackPK(Petrel) is not killed. Instead, the amount of players who have targeted JackPK(Petrel) will be published.
Butterfree(N) does not use TRUTH VERSUS IDEALS.
ILS(Gengar) uses ENTER DREAM, targeting JackPK(Petrel).
Negrek(Giovanni) uses BROADCAST RECEIVED, asking the question: "Was a Gladiator-like power given to an innocent-aligned role?".
END OF NIGHT: Negrek's question is answered "yes". ILS gains private comms with JackPK(Petrel). The amount of players who targeted JackPK (2) is published as Altissimo couldn't kill him.





Spoiler: Day/Night Six



=DAY SIX=
Altissimo(Go-Rock Quads) is lynched.

=NIGHT SIX=
JackPK(Petrel) uses MASTER OF DISGUISE to swap Zapi(Archie) and Negrek(Giovanni) around.
Zapi(Archie) uses KEELHAUL. JackPK(Petrel) is bleeding.
Butterfree(N) does not use TRUTH VERSUS IDEALS.
ILS(Gengar) uses ENTER DREAM, targeting Zapi(Archie). Due to MASTER OF DISGUISE, Negrek(Giovanni) is targeted.
Negrek(Giovanni) uses BROADCAST RECEIVED, asking the question: "Was the power to cause bold messages to appear during the day phase given to an innocent-aligned role?".
END OF NIGHT: JackPK(Petrel) dies. Negrek's question is answered "yes" (for the record, deploying The Thing kind of causes a lot of bold messages to appear, alright?). ILS gets a bogus communication gain PM with Negrek.





Spoiler: Day Seven



=DAY SEVEN=
Zapi(Archie) is lynched.






Well! A few of the roles I had running about were definitely a little too experimental for their own good, but all in all I managed to achieve more or less the balance and dynamic that I was expecting out of this setup. I for one am calling it a success.

That said, it'll probably be a while before I have more MFia up and running -- if I don't just run games constantly, it'll be a lot harder for me to burn out or run out of ideas.

Anyways, I hope everyone- or, well, more realistically, most of you enjoyed the game.


----------



## Kratos Aurion

*Re: Villainous Team Choice Pokémafia - Game Thread*

wait does that mean I wouldn't have died if I'd used my power :(

Fun game! Gah that announcement thing was baffling; definitely didn't see it turning out that way, haha.

whoo go town, etc., etc..


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## JackPK

*Re: Villainous Team Choice Pokémafia - Game Thread*

oh my god

EVERY TIME the bold text came up talking about me it's because Altissimo tried to kill me but failed b/c I had used my powers that night

_EVERY TIME_

i cannot fucking imagine how frustrating that must have been for the scum



(A+ game! I really love the scumkill variations where they fail against people who used a certain type of power, making it important to correctly pick the person to execute the scumkill based on the target's presumed powers.)


----------



## Negrek

*Re: Villainous Team Choice Pokémafia - Game Thread*

I'M FREE! FREEEEEEEE!!!!







wait what do you mean I don't get clemency for assisting the investigation???

(Yes, actually, my entire motivation for choosing Giovanni was to get an excuse to use that gif.)

Good game! Not the twistiest of the MF games I've participated in, but it definitely had its surprises. No wonder Altissimo was going on about Jack the entire game, heh--that had to be incredibly frustrating.

What on earth was up with Flora and VM's roles, though? I guess VM's is an interesting one in that it could make the innocents play around with it, inadvertently shooting themselves in the foot, but Flora's appears to be just... really, really bad.



> (for the record, deploying The Thing kind of causes a lot of bold messages to appear, alright?)


Fair. I really had no idea about what was going on with the day messages, so I didn't want to risk a false negative by assuming too much in the way I worded my question and stuck to something pretty generic. Obviously I went too broad.


----------



## Zero Moment

*Re: Villainous Team Choice Pokémafia - Game Thread*

ofc VM had to turn off my powers the moment they're useful. I had this whole spiel prepared about being a pure nexus and immune to kills but with a secondary lose condition >:(


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## Autumn

*Re: Villainous Team Choice Pokémafia - Game Thread*



JackPK said:


> oh my god
> 
> EVERY TIME the bold text came up talking about me it's because Altissimo tried to kill me but failed b/c I had used my powers that night
> 
> _EVERY TIME_
> 
> i cannot fucking imagine how frustrating that must have been for the scum
> 
> 
> 
> (A+ game! I really love the scumkill variations where they fail against people who used a certain type of power, making it important to correctly pick the person to execute the scumkill based on the target's presumed powers.)


You have no. Goddamn. _Idea._

So yes, it was not a coincidence that Zapi's so-called power went off every time there was not a nightkill, but it _was_ a coincidence that the only times my power failed were when I targeted someone with whom Jack swapped, and I was so irritated I couldn't explain that when Zapi was under suspicion. :(

other thoughts:
-God fucking damn it ILS on _night one_ of the game when you inducted me into your circle _I told you I was a healer_ you could have _used_ that because it was the whole reason I claimed healer publicly but nooooo
-although to be fair:


Altissimo said:


> if anyone had asked me to roleclaim late game i had a contingency plan, Music Therapist aka I heal people with the power of musics xD


this was from username mafia in 2012 and I had 100% forgotten about it lmao
-KRATOS I'M SORRY I HAD TO KILL YOU I REALLY AM YOU WERE SO MUCH FUN TO PLAY WITH I'M NOT EVEN JOKING
-all in all this was the best mafia i've done in a while because holy shit if it wasn't totally crazy and that's what I like to see!!!!!


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## Autumn

*Re: Villainous Team Choice Pokémafia - Game Thread*



> -God fucking damn it ILS on night one of the game when you inducted me into your circle I told you I was a healer you could have used that because it was the whole reason I claimed healer publicly but nooooo


TO ADD TO THIS I WAS SO PROUD OF THE WAY I STRUCTURED THE HEALER CLAIM BECAUSE IT TOTALLY FIT WITH MY ROLE BUT NO YOU COULDNT HAVE DEFENDED ME USING THE NUGGET I PROVIDED ON NIGHT FUCKING ONE

I AM SALTY


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## Autumn

*Re: Villainous Team Choice Pokémafia - Game Thread*

also i can't get over the fact that negrek specifically found out i was mafia and did not believe the results

i thought we had a chance then :( i was so excited!


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## Zapi

*Re: Villainous Team Choice Pokémafia - Game Thread*

I don't know if I ever commented on the flavor for this game, MF, but I _love_ it. All of it. and seeing all the role PMs made me love it even more!

and i still can't believe Jack managed to swap himself with the person we were trying to target like _three times_. i mean the first time it was actually beneficial because otherwise we would've killed Nira... but the other times. why. We should've killed you while we had the Chance


----------



## I liek Squirtles

*Re: Villainous Team Choice Pokémafia - Game Thread*

You... told me you were a healer? I forgot lol

At least i got a cool rescue team out of it


----------



## Kratos Aurion

*Re: Villainous Team Choice Pokémafia - Game Thread*



Altissimo said:


> -KRATOS I'M SORRY I HAD TO KILL YOU I REALLY AM YOU WERE SO MUCH FUN TO PLAY WITH I'M NOT EVEN JOKING


THEN WHY DID YOU DO IT YOU COULD'VE KILLED NEGREK OR SOMEONE INSTEAD


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## Autumn

*Re: Villainous Team Choice Pokémafia - Game Thread*

we had our reasons :(

and yes ILS on n1 i asked what your deal was and you asked me and I said "pretty generic healer" gdi


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## Negrek

*Re: Villainous Team Choice Pokémafia - Game Thread*



> also i can't get over the fact that negrek specifically found out i was mafia and did not believe the results


I am just really bad at Mafia, it's kind of ridiculous. =/



> and i still can't believe Jack managed to swap himself with the person we were trying to target like three times. i mean the first time it was actually beneficial because otherwise we would've killed Nira... but the other times. why. We should've killed you while we had the Chance


And also, wasn't he just swapping 100% at random? That is some _serious_ RNG hate.


----------



## Superbird

*Re: Villainous Team Choice Pokémafia - Game Thread*

This was wonderful to watch the entire way through. That's really all I can say, though


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## Butterfree

*Re: Villainous Team Choice Pokémafia - Game Thread*

Good game! We've had more brainmelting roles, but I think some of the playing that resulted from this was excellent - the day Negrek and Altissimo concluded they were both innocent was pretty great. I kind of started to believe it. (But my vibes were right all along, oh my god.)

JackPK's wild success at stopping the mafia with random swaps is hilarious. Poor mafia didn't stand a chance against the RNG gods.


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## Autumn

*Re: Villainous Team Choice Pokémafia - Game Thread*



Butterfree said:


> JackPK's wild success at stopping the mafia with random swaps is hilarious. Poor mafia didn't stand a chance against the RNG gods.


BULLSHIT we TOTALLY WOULD HAVE if you guys hadn't lynched me


----------



## Autumn

*Re: Villainous Team Choice Pokémafia - Game Thread*



Negrek said:


> And also, wasn't he just swapping 100% at random? That is some _serious_ RNG hate.


The first time I don't think it was random (he only declared he'd be using RNG once we figured out what his power was), then the second time was random, then the third time I think was his trying to protect you by swapping with you. (And you know we had an idea this would happen but there was literally no way around it: in order to kill you I had to target you, but if Jack swapped with you then my kill would fail, but if I tried to target Jack it would fail for the same reasons, and if Zapi tried to target you it would fail, and if Zapi tried to target Jack it would fail ... so all we could do was target you and hope Jack didn't fuck it up A THIRD TIME)

this did lead to the most hilarious thing that Zapi said to me via PM though: "Of course this is just assuming everything goes right and no Jack switching fuckery prevents negrek from getting #negrekt tonight"

re: kratos: we had our reasons for killing you:



			
				Zapi in PM said:
			
		

> Alright then. My two cents: we should kill Kratos tonight, and attempt to frame it on Negrek. Here's my reasoning:
> 
> - Obviously Flora and Jack should be left alive since they're suspicious, and Butterfree (if she makes it til then) since some people are suspicious of her. That just leaves ILS and the other two from the communication chain.
> - Killing Negrek would most definitely point ILS and Kratos towards you, since they (Neg) were openly suspicious of you (Alti) in the thread. So that's also a no-go. That leaves ILS and Kratos.
> - Now, like you said, Alti - if you kill ILS tonight, it's likely that Kratos would be able to guess it was you. If you kill Kratos, however, I'm highly doubtful that ILS would be able to guess it was you - he seems pretty suspicious of Negrek, and Kratos dying would probably confirm his suspicion. This, combined with the fact that they suspected Nira and me, and that they definitely need to die before you (Alti) do so my claim doesn't get fucked up, makes Kratos a pretty good target imo.
> 
> Ideally, once Kratos is dead, ILS will start a lynch train for Negrek the following day... which, in turn, will make him look suspicious the next day if Negrek gets lynched and flips innocent.





			
				me said:
			
		

> My initial thought was to get rid of either Butterfree or Kratos, too: Butterfree because, despite the heavy suspicions against her, Negrek's totally right that she's most likely to be innocent if my healing claim is true. I also don't want to see The Thing happen, but Kratos being killed is probably much, much better for us. (I kind of didn't want to kill Kratos because they're so suspicious of Jack and Flora and Negrek but it looks like this is how stuff's gonna go down. :( lol)
> 
> I PMed ILS and Kratos and asked them who they thought we should induct into the group tonight. Kratos gave the following logic:
> -Nira's on the chopping block
> -ILS and myself are suspicious of Butterfree
> -We're all suspicious of Jack
> -This leaves Flora and Zapi
> -Flora probably wouldn't be much help
> -Zapi it is. Kratos did say this: "I still have a tiny niggling suspicion about Zapi, but less so after I realized I'd misremembered the targeting Jack thing, and I'm not aware of any particular problems either of you have with them." but it's very small compared with the other suspicions they have (though Kratos isn't particularly suspicious of Butterfree).
> 
> Kratos seems very positive Jack will flip mafia if Nira does, by the way.
> 
> I'll keep up the dialogue with the group and you during the night phase. There may well yet be a way another choice is better if the discussion turns out that way. But for now Kratos seems like as good a bet as any.





			
				Zapi said:
			
		

> Hmm, you're right in that Butterfree might also be an option worth considering... but I guess Kratos is more of a priority. Also I'm pretty sure some other people are suspicious of Flora and Jack, so it's not too bad of a loss. *prays Butterfree doesn't do The Thing tonight*


We had some interesting PM conversations


----------



## M&F

*Re: Villainous Team Choice Pokémafia - Game Thread*



Kratos Aurion said:


> wait does that mean I wouldn't have died if I'd used my power :(


Nah. That would've been the case if it was Zapi murdering you, but since it was Altissimo, you'd have died either way.



Negrek said:


> What on earth was up with Flora and VM's roles, though? I guess VM's is an interesting one in that it could make the innocents play around with it, inadvertently shooting themselves in the foot, but Flora's appears to be just... really, really bad.


Past me was convinced that it had pseudo-informative functions, which would be good for a number of reasons. In the end it just really sucks, but eh, GMing MFia sometimes gets to be a hit-or-miss affair.



Zapi said:


> I don't know if I ever commented on the flavor for this game, MF, but I _love_ it. All of it. and seeing all the role PMs made me love it even more!


Thanks! But I should also mention, the RP'd posts were excellent overall as well. I didn't say much when they were rolling since that carried a minor risk of modconfirming someone's flavor claim (and I have on some occasions messed even with choice flavor, so that would've mattered), but seriously, seeing posts like those is probably the most fun I can have in the game without laughing at anybody's fate.



Altissimo said:


> in order to kill you I had to target you, but if Jack swapped with you then my kill would fail, but if I tried to target Jack it would fail for the same reasons, and if Zapi tried to target you it would fail, and if Zapi tried to target Jack it would fail ... so all we could do was target you and hope Jack didn't fuck it up A THIRD TIME)


... Oh boy. Were you folks aware that only the action of your final target counted for the self-limitation on the kill?


----------



## Autumn

*Re: Villainous Team Choice Pokémafia - Game Thread*



Metallica Fanboy said:


> ... Oh boy. Were you folks aware that only the action of your final target counted for the self-limitation on the kill?


clearly not

_noooooooooooooooooooo_


----------



## Autumn

*Re: Villainous Team Choice Pokémafia - Game Thread*

i demand a do-over!


----------



## Negrek

*Re: Villainous Team Choice Pokémafia - Game Thread*

Niiiiiice.

Also, since I forgot to say it earlier, thanks for a great game, MF! I'll be looking forward to whatever you host next.


----------



## Autumn

*Re: Villainous Team Choice Pokémafia - Game Thread*

oh right i know this is way late but for the record we killed (or tried to kill) most of the people we did in the early game because they were inactive and i was pissed as shit at people being inactive


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