# Activity pit of doom



## Phantom

It's getting sad around here. 

ASB's dead, Mafia's been dead, and roleplaying before that...

TCoD's dying. 

Any ideas to boost activity? Like, say, advertising? *Hasnoidea*

Obviously we can expect a boost in activity with the new games, but that might not last. Ideas?


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## kyeugh

It seems like we're all waiting on each other to make posts, and no one does, so we just kinda sit here.


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## Murkrow

I'm up for any ideas anyone has :(

I've noticed fewer threads recently and decided to make threads every time I get the idea for one rather than thinking "nah, it'll annoy people!" but I can't think of what else I could do beyond just being a bit more proactive about posting here.


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## I liek Squirtles

According to Negrek, if anyone wants to take up the ASB baton they should contact her. We just need someone who is experienced and willing enough to run it.


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## Tailsy

I'm waiting for all of you to drown so I can drink the marrow from your bones and arise as the queen of the internet.


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## Jolty

did everyone piss off to irc or something


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## Zhorken

Hahah I wish but no, #tcod's been in basically the same boat for years.  It hasn't been getting any quieter I guess but it isn't showing any signs of making a comeback either.


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## kyeugh

What if we all try to contribute three posts a day?


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## I liek Squirtles

The important thing is not the amount of posts, but what you post. You could make fifty posts in the Games forum, but that's not exactly contributing to the forum.


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## Music Dragon

I'm more interested in what punishment we should come up with for those who don't post enough.


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## Butterfree

I've been under the impression a large amount of the activity dip is because of the "server busy" messages. I couldn't quite judge it personally since they don't show up for admins, but I know one forum I went to started showing that message all the time and I just gave up trying to go there regularly after a while.

In which case it could get somewhat better once I manage to actually get the time to move the forums.


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## Spoon

Yeah, things should improve once we get a new server, but it's unlikely to rebound to what it was anytime soon.  

Condensing and pruning things here might help. For instance, the creativity section seems really spaced considering the activity it gets.

Also bringing new things to the table and discussing interesting stuff that is already here could help, perhaps? (New Phoenix Wright? Edward Snowden and lack of online privacy? Pet photo thread?)


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## Phantom

I have a ton of ideas for threads, but I am worried about it being basically considered spam.


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## ultraviolet

i personally think it's because there's not really anything new to discuss in serious business, and that that ASB/Mafia/SZ etc. have all slowed down or are empty. those are the kinds of things people come back for: arguing and playing games. lots of people that have left were mostly here for ASB or something.


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## Superbird

...because I have no idea what to post here.

I just read the entire thread so far and was thinking "I don't know what to post because I don't really have anything to input on this subject" and then I was like, "wait a sec."


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## kyeugh

It's simple then, to me-- open up ASB, and try to spark some new interest in the SZ.


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## I liek Squirtles

It's just not opening ASB, it's getting refs, having someone man the shops, etc.


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## shy ♡

You can't just say 'open ASB', you need someone who is actually able to open it. Who is willing capable of that? Probably only people that are super busy, if anyone. 

Getting refs and such would come later, if the person running ASB was quality.


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## Eta Carinae

I think if ASB is brought back, it should be run by multiple people.  With a divided workload (and the added help from the ASB Control Panel, which I hope is brought back), even if someone running it gets busy there will be enough people in control to keep it running smoothly.


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## I liek Squirtles

We could have about 5 people running everything and 2 of those could be the heads of ASB.


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## Zero Moment

Butterfree said:


> I've been under the impression a large amount of the activity dip is because of the "server busy" messages. I couldn't quite judge it personally since they don't show up for admins, but I know one forum I went to started showing that message all the time and I just gave up trying to go there regularly after a while.
> 
> In which case it could get somewhat better once I manage to actually get the time to move the forums.


this was p. much it for me


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## ultraviolet

i am p. sure there is an effort from some people to bring ASB back at least...! but rest assured that yeah it does take a lot of effort and time and saying stuff like 'well we should just bring it back' or 'we could just have a whole team of people instead of one person' works better on paper than in practice! these are obvious solutions but it is a little more complex than that (coordinating a group of people, finding time, dividing the workload, etc.).


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## I liek Squirtles

But how do we know how well it works without trying?


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## Autumn

i wouldn't mind doing some stuff in charge of ASB. I used to be a ref way back in the day but i don't want to do that, i mean just kind of running monetary affairs or something?


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## hopeandjoy

I have the time, I just don't have the experience. But if there was a team, jobs could be worked out.


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## 42aruaour

Before I even knew of TCoD, I made up my own version of ASB but it failed badly. My friends and I enjoyed it, but it relied on the trust system too much, and that caused problems. I think that if ASB here was revived (I didn't even know it was dead, I hadn't checked yet), then it would attract a whole slew of new members who like something different and possibly more challenging. Too bad I don't have the time for that.



Butterfree said:


> I've been under the impression a large amount of the activity dip is because of the "server busy" messages. I couldn't quite judge it personally since they don't show up for admins, but I know one forum I went to started showing that message all the time and I just gave up trying to go there regularly after a while.


I agree you Butterfree. For the past few days, I gave up on coming on because of the "server is busy" messages. I still do check, but it is rather annoying, and I'm also afraid that I might get that message after writing a long post or something. I'm also guessing that when people need to start going back to school after the summer, they won't be able to come on as often. I know that I won't be able to come on as often once the school year starts for me.


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## Superbird

Put it this way, I'd love to do /something/ to help with ASB, but Junior year starts in a month and I'm completely certain I wouldn't be able to make the commitment. 

If it is open, I'd participate and probably ref a bit, though.


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## Eta Carinae

Superbird said:


> Put it this way, I'd love to do /something/ to help with ASB, but Junior year starts in a month and I'm completely certain I wouldn't be able to make the commitment.
> 
> If it is open, I'd participate and probably ref a bit, though.


I am in the exact same situation (even down to Junior year).  I want to help, but I'm way too unreliable.


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## hopeandjoy

I'm going into senior year, but I'm most likely moving into a less intensive school. I have college stuff to worry about, but I finish homework fast enough that I could help as long as I have a co-ASB runner.


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## Autumn

hopeandjoy said:


> I'm going into senior year, but I'm most likely moving into a less intensive school. I have college stuff to worry about, but I finish homework fast enough that I could help as long as I have a co-ASB runner.


Depending on the nature of being a co-ASB runner, I could help with that. I probably couldn't do anything directly related to actual battles since I haven't actually been involved in ASB in years but I do like organization and numbers and shit.


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## kyeugh

I could do it. I'll be homeschooled next year, so I'll have a lot of time. I suppose I'm still to much of a junior member, though.


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## RespectTheBlade

I'd love to help bring ASB back. I do have senior year coming up, but I'm pretty sure I'll at least have some time to help out and stuff. (I realize I've been gone from the forums for a bit, but i'd stay for this. (also second note i'm not that experienced so I don't think I'd be qualified to help run it or anything but idk.))


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## I liek Squirtles

I'd also love to help in anything. I'd be best organizing things.


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## hopeandjoy

I'm just going to say this though, and it's not an accusation to anyone here (really, it applies to me too). If we do this, we need to be absolutely committed. This isn't an RP we can just let die.


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## Autumn

hopeandjoy said:


> I'm just going to say this though, and it's not an accusation to anyone here (really, it applies to me too). If we do this, we need to be absolutely committed. This isn't an RP we can just let die.


Of course! I can do that.


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## RespectTheBlade

hopeandjoy said:


> I'm just going to say this though, and it's not an accusation to anyone here (really, it applies to me too). If we do this, we need to be absolutely committed. This isn't an RP we can just let die.


I understand. I'm not sure what size of a contribution I can make, but whatever it is, I won't just give up on it unless my computer explodes or something.


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## hopeandjoy

We need some way to plan together. I'm out until Monday without a computer, and Monday I'm celebrating my belated birthday. Email might work best, since you can't have a PM with multiple people.

When we know who's helping, I'll do a mass email to everyone involved.

I can coordinate everyone, and maybe judge refs because I'm a writer. We'll assign jobs officially later when we know how many people we have. Just state your talents.


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## Negrek

Okay, look. I really didn't want to get into this because it's not my business anymore, but I did already get a proposal from a group of people to take over the running of the league back in June. I have no idea why they've apparently decided they need to be so ~secretive~ about it, but before you get all worked up and start organizing things, you should talk to them because they've presumably been working on things for the last couple of months. You can see their names at the bottom of this page.


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## hopeandjoy

Yeah, I'll go PM them.

It would've been nice if they had come into the thread, though.


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## Phantom

.





hopeandjoy said:


> Yeah, I'll go PM them.
> 
> It would've been nice if they had come into the thread, though.


Or would have said anything at all. WTF guys? Why wouldn't you tell anyone? And why weren't members told of people being modded, ASB mods or not. Keeping shit behind closed doors and doing things behind backs is why so many members, senior members at that, left. We're in this together.


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## hopeandjoy

Yeah, they're still working on it.


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## Eta Carinae

I'm glad there are people out there who wanted to act, but unlike me had enough confidence to do something.  I'd love to see a public address or something talking about when we can expect the league back, and what kind of changes are coming.


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## Autumn

Phantom said:


> Keeping shit behind closed doors and doing things behind backs is why so many members, senior members at that, left.


was it, now? i don't recall that being the reason?


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## kyeugh

Have they even started reconstructing or anything yet?


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## Phantom

Altissimo said:


> was it, now? i don't recall that being the reason?


From the ones that I've talked to, it was a part of it, though small. 

Most of it was disagreements about *events* involving the Battle for ASB, which pretty much killed ASB. 

Has anyone even gotten a response from any of them?

And why were the modded and nothing announced? I get that they're not 'true' mods, but there still was action taken without notifying the rest of the forum? I mean, like we would oppose anything, but it still would have been nice to know so none of us would waste our time.


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## ultraviolet

I am really disappointed that the response to people actually working on ASB is 'WHY DIDN'T THEY TELL US???' 'HAS ANYTHING EVEN BEEN FIXED YET???'. People are taking time out of their lives to put something together for the forum here? Do you think maybe people haven't been keeping it a ~secret~ and instead didn't want to announce it until things had actually been organised? People have already been approached for extra help (like me) and I'm sure other people will be contacted if you're needed?

I know people are impatient - and I am, too - but ASB isn't exactly a tame beast to ride, okay! There's a lot of shit to do and it really, really bugs me for people to get upset that they ~_weren't told_~ even though there's still a whole bunch to do. From what I understand we're probably going to have to run ASB pre-hack for a while (at least). 

tl:dr; can we not do this??? it's like 1000% more drama than is actually needed, guys.



Phantom said:


> Or would have said anything at all. WTF guys? Why wouldn't you tell anyone? And why weren't members told of people being modded, ASB mods or not. Keeping shit behind closed doors and doing things behind backs is why so many members, senior members at that, left. We're in this together.


and we also don't need this kind of attitude? what do you think they've been doing, rigging ASB or something? I am pretty sure that people trying to reconstruct ASB for the forum is a *little* different than some members being secretive and making events no fun for a lot of people? also i am pretty sure you can't speak for 'so many senior members'.


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## Phantom

^That's not what I meant _at all_. 

I'm just saying decisions were made and no one was told. I'm not angry, I'm just a bit confused and concerned. Perhaps people would have like to have known who to contact if they wished to help? Because if Neg hadn't linked I never would have even known, I mean, who regularly checks the staff listing?

And I can speak a bit for the few I have talked to. I went out of my way to contact them because I was concerned cared about people. (I was sad they left, because I actually care about you people here at TCoD a lot.)

I said "is why so many members, senior members at that, left.". Now, I note it might not be as clearly put as it could be, but what I meant from that is; so many members, and many senior members at that, left. And it's true, from what I understand of course, though there is more to it that doesn't need to be said.

Sorry about cursing, no filter, been playing too much Call of Duty.


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## Autumn

Phantom said:


> And I can speak a bit for the few I have talked to. I went out of my way to contact them because I was concerned and actually freaking cared about people. (I was sad they left, because I actually care about you people here at TCoD a lot.)


is the implication here that no one else cares about some tcodians ?_?


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## Eta Carinae

ultraviolet said:


> I know people are impatient - and I am, too - but ASB isn't exactly a tame beast to ride, okay! There's a lot of shit to do and it really, really bugs me for people to get upset that they ~_weren't told_~ even though there's still a whole bunch to do. From what I understand we're probably going to have to run ASB pre-hack for a while (at least).


I think people are acting impatient because of the fact progress actually is being made.  I'm sure a lot of people weren't happy about the ASB shutdown in the first place, but at the time there wasn't much hope.  Now we have something to look forward to, and the overflow of frustration from before is being displayed.

Personally I apologize if I sound impatient.  If they do say something, I'm sure our only reaction will be praise.


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## Phantom

Altissimo said:


> is the implication here that no one else cares about some tcodians ?_?


Whoah, what? I never said that?! Nothing I said even _hinted_ at that. All I said was a checked up because I cared. There was no hidden implication or anything. I was just saying I cared. If _anyone _left because they felt hurt or anything I'd ask them if I could do something or help. It's just _how_ _I am_. I just. 

That's not what I _meant goddamn it. _Maybe you just read it in the wrong like, voice. 

Seriously. I even just had a friend read over that and tell me what he thought I was saying, because I'm seriously confused and appparently can't say things right. 

 If I wanted to say something poly, I would have said it straight up, but I didn't, so I never said that. Ever. Wut. 

Ah powers just fucking shoot me already.


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## Autumn

Phantom said:


> Whoah, what? I never said that?! Nothing I said even _hinted_ at that. All I said was a checked up because I cared. There was no hidden implication or anything. I was just saying I cared. If _anyone _left because they felt hurt or anything I'd ask them if I could do something or help. It's just _how_ _I am_. I just.
> 
> That's not what I _meant goddamn it. _Maybe you just read it in the wrong like, voice.
> 
> Seriously. I even just had a friend read over that and tell me what he thought I was saying, because I'm seriously confused and appparently can't say things right.
> 
> If I wanted to say something poly, I would have said it straight up, but I didn't, so I never said that. Ever. Wut.
> 
> Ah powers just fucking shoot me already.


that's how it came across to me and i have a feeling others could have construed it that way or not. whether you meant it or not that was actually pret-ty strongly implied sorry


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## Phantom

Altissimo said:


> that's how it came across to me and i have a feeling others could have construed it that way or not. whether you meant it or not that was actually pret-ty strongly implied sorry


I just need to find a corner and just sit there humming Kansas songs off key.

Translation: Dammit. Forgive me poly, and anyone that misread that post. I just. I'm having trouble picking the right words lately. I'm not right in the head lately. Sorry again. I can has forgives?


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## 42aruaour

I forgive you (even though I'm new).

I think I'll try to help in anyway I can. I know I probably won't be able to come on everyday, but I can find some time to come on at least once a week, so if there is anything I could do to help, even though I'm new, I wouldn't mind doing so since I'm not planning on leaving anytime soon... Unless I somehow lose internet.


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## Butterfree

I agree that it would have made sense to give a little announcement or heads-up that people were in the process of resurrecting ASB - in fact, I had seen people discussing it on IRC but because there had been no announcement and nothing had been posted in the ASB forum, I assumed that meant the idea had been abandoned. But the cry for _transparency!!_ doesn't make a lot of sense to me - this is just organizational clumsiness among some members of a Pokémon forum, not shady government officials trying to cover up something that actually matters. Wanting to know about an ASB revival is entirely understandable, but being utterly scandalized to hear you didn't know it was happening seems like a wee bit of an overreaction.


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## Mai

Introductory sorry! I get that at the point people were discussing opening it themselves, we really should've said something, but UV pretty much got it:



ultraviolet said:


> Do you think maybe people haven't been keeping it a ~secret~ and instead didn't want to announce it until things had actually been organised? People have already been approached for extra help (like me) and I'm sure other people will be contacted if you're needed?


It's been a while since we first started planning to reopen ASB! A lot of things have happened since then, but we're still not ready. I really don't think it would've been better if we said we were working on it a month ago; announcing something like that with nothing to show for it would probably make everyone even more frustrated about it than they are now.



Phantom said:


> And why were the modded and nothing announced? I get that they're not 'true' mods, but there still was action taken without notifying the rest of the forum? I mean, like we would oppose anything, but it still would have been nice to know so none of us would waste our time.


Because we can only mod a dead forum at the moment, and we were planning an announcement for when we were actually ready? This isn't something where we're secretly going along and doing... something. Running the entire forum from behind the scenes? I get that it would be nice to know, but. We were hoping it would be nice to make one big surprise announcement when the league was ready and running again.



Ampharos said:


> I'm glad there are people out there who wanted to act, but unlike me had enough confidence to do something.  I'd love to see a public address or something talking about when we can expect the league back, and what kind of changes are coming.


For when the league is ready to come back... we're not really sure. We can't access the hack, and we don't have records/data of all the pokemon and items that exist in there right now. Once we have that, though, it shouldn't be much longer.

We already have the opening announcement ready, and we pretty much know what we're trying to do. At this point, I don't think we'll need to ask for help! That might change once ASB is actually open, but for now, we're fine.

... Butterfree ninja'd me, and I guess that makes a lot of my post redundant, but I don't really know what I should say other than that.


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## 42aruaour

That's nice to know. Thanks for the heads up and hopefully you can get the necessary data soon.


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## Music Dragon

I'm really happy with the way this thread turned out. It's just like the good old days - which means TCoD's back on track! Boy, we sure dodged a bullet on that one, huh?


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## Sokka217

If we need any extra hands doing something, I'm avaliable! ^_^'
I've been getting involved in some table top RPGs lately, so if we ever brought ASB back, I could help with that (I did do some of that when I was active a year ago >.>), I do artsy stuff.. Uh.. ..I do animating.. Uh.. Yeah. Not really good at any scripting though. So. XD


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## Karousever

I'm glad Maimi came and cleared things up, I know what to look forward to now. I think it's a big help, at least, I don't know about you guys.


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## 1. Luftballon

also we're not some secretive cabal or anything like that really, we just don't have a pr department and didn't feel the need to hire one before we were done reoorganising


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## kyeugh

I think the reason people are getting upset is because they really wanted to work on ASB and now they can't!  Perhaps you could let some of the people that you feel contribute do so!


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## mewtini

Haha, bringing back ASB would definitely cause a surge of activity.

I'd love to help but as most of you know, I'm ~undercover~ and so can't make a real commitment.


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## blazheirio889

Right, apologies again for the lack of communication! I'm apparently designated social but the problem is I'm halfway across the world from where I usually am and without reliable internet, so. Since we're new to this and all we're kinda clumsy and not very coordinated, but we hope to improve with time! (I mean, we'd /better/ improve if we want things to go smoothly...)

We appreciate the amount of people who want to help, we really do! But the main reason we don't want to add any more people to our team is that a larger group means communication and coordination is more difficult, and as you can probably see we're already struggling with that... OTL As for now, a small team is probably the best way to go. We'll re-evaluate the situation as time goes on and maybe invite more people. But when ASB re-opens, what we'd really appreciate most from you guys is activity and participation! Everyone can help, even if they're not on the team, by being active, battling, and reffing!


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## Phantom

Yeah. Great people you've chosen to run ASB there.

I think they forgot I was still a member at their little website where they plotted for BfA. Remember guys? I technically was in the fight for all of five seconds. 



Spoiler: Yup














Spoiler: For sure














Spoiler:  Next...


















And just like they said, I'm going to get chewed out on this. Because you just know I'm the sad _victim_ who always needs to be pitied and WHY ARE YOU ALL PILING UP ON ME, STAHP, PLZ! THAT HURTZ MY FEELINGS. Just because I can't seem to fucking phrase things right and always dance around trying to not be mean and be everyone's fucking friend. 

res also linked in two posts, one some random ass post from Datura about mods, the other was a link to a conversation between me and another member asking about what happened in the BfA, where I simply said I didn't know enough to say anything. (Also would it kill the guy to use some sort of grammar.)

I think it's time I released one of the messages I got from a member that left, note, not my words and I'll only put in what was mentioned about the BfA and not the OTHER stuff, which is just as interesting. Remember, not my words. Copied from a PM, thanks "random" person!



> There was also the ASB event. We had a lot of soreness about that. Between res and *namewithheld lording over every single new member's pokemon (let them choose what they want holy shit) And the entire 'hero side' exploding and whining and complaining about Moony and Kat spying and being on the other side when the whole thing was a Negrek-approved plot point... it caused all of us a lot of stress. Res liked to fire thinly-veiled insults at us. He directly insulted Moony and Kat's intelligence several times. They accused me of every queer thing to happen to our 'heroes' since that, as well. Here's a fun after the fact thing for you: I was spying too. And Negrek knew about that, and approved it. I wasn't allowed to like, give them your entire command strings. But I was allowed to drop hints, so they wouldn't be at a total disadvantage while they were outnumbered 6 to 1. But I never tried to actively sabotage you all in any way. You know, besides not being willing to listen to res' orders because he's a big dick.
> 
> We had a big ol' story line planned out after the event was to end.
> 
> Fandom secret: res is one of the reasons Neg closed ASB. So you can thank him for all this. And yes, this is straight from her mouth.


So the guy that's responsible for the death of ASB, according to the head herself, is now going to revive it? Sounds like a fucking backdoor policy to me. 

You know what blahzy? I was never mad before? Probably because I didn't think you nice pm was being done under the direction of someone else. 

OTHER MEMBERS OF THE FORUM; DO YOU WANT TO KNOW WHY WE CAN'T HAVE NICE THINGS?

PEOPLE PULLING THIS SHIT.

EDIT: Also, I just recently went to visit the site again, I've been banned. Some spine you got there.


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## Butterfree

You know what? I have no idea what the fuck this drama is even about. I didn't know what the hell Battle for Asber was even while it was going on. ASB was Negrek's baby; if she'd like to weigh in on all this, she probably has a way better perspective on it than I do. I don't know what exactly res did to apparently ruin it for everyone or whether he learned his lesson or whatever.

I will say that mocking other members behind their backs is a dickish thing to do even if you think they can't see it, and also that making big public angry confrontations is generally not a good way to deal with things - it's a way to cause irritating drama, heightened emotions and defensiveness that ensures nothing gets done. Can we please talk about the issue like adults?


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## 1. Luftballon

(if you'd like to compare me to wwii-era personages, you're welcome to, by the way. it'd be highly amusing after the initial "what" period.)


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## ultraviolet

Perhaps I'm overstepping my lines here, but I personally am very uncomfortable with the idea that those who were I guess _centrally involved_ with the drama and subsequent shutting down of The Battle of Asber - whoever's _fault _it was - are now those who are in charge of restoring it, and I am sure I'm not alone here. I am also probably not alone in feeling uncomfortable that someone who declares itself to be "an evil douchebag bastard stalker" and "obnoxious and disliked" is possibly going to be in charge of something that is important to a lot of members and formed a core part of this forum's activity (which is what this thread was actually about, if anyone remembers). Whether this is a 'personal feud' between res and other forum members or not, it is ultimately tied into a major source of conflict within the old ASB, and is certainly relevant to the new one. I am not interested in seeing a new ASB fail because of various 'personal feuds'. 

I suppose now is a good time to say that I did not know the discussion about Phantom was happening (I was also not part of The Battle of Asber drama, I didn't even join in), because majority of the forum was hidden from me, and that I do not support or appreciate the kind of behavior that has taken place. Whether or not Phantom was the intended audience, openly gossiping about and mocking a member of the forums is really not the kind of behavior you really want to see from anyone with authority, like an ASB moderator? And the fact that more of this behavior keeps being pulled up from a variety of sources does not really do much to help. Whether you are 'no good at PR' or not, you do need to kind of not be a douchebag if you're going to head ASB, if only because it also goes against the general grain of the forums.

As such, I am absolving my help from this project. I would like to make it clear that I do not support anything going on here unless some major things change - you cannot be openly rude and obnoxious to people and also lead a community. 

I'm also going to add that if anyone feels they should say something, _do so _(as long as you're doing so respectfully) - this is a community thing, after all, and ASB will presumably be used by you.


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## The Omskivar

Ugh I hate this sort of thing _and on my birthday too guys :/_

I'd like to also publicly state that I had _no idea_ that any discussion regarding Phantom in any way was going on, and I have _zero approval_ for it.  It's not okay and it's not friendly and it certainly isn't becoming of someone trying to lead.  I won't go as far as to absolve my help in the project, mostly because I'm barely doing anything as it is and it wouldn't affect anything, but I would like to apologize to Phantom, if not on the behalf of blazhy/res, the on behalf of myself, having been completely ignorant.

I really don't have any opinions on res that are relevant to the conversation, except that sarcastically calling things "adorable" and inviting further hostilities towards it might not be the way it wants to handle the original hostilities (justified or no, hostilities are what they are).  If it is bad at PR, then it should *learn* instead of using it as a justification for saying/doing whatever it wants without consideration.


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## 42aruaour

I can't really say much other than, _Why now?_ What the heck even is Battle for Asber? This is the first time I heard of it. I understand that you'd be annoyed, I know of people where that sort of misunderstanding and mis-phrasing occurs. You can give a point, and thats fine. You can prove your point, and that's ok. You can be aggressive and attack someone, and that's not ok.

Also, why would anyone here talk about people behind their backs. If you have a problem with them, then go right ahead and tell them, but nicely. That sort of stuff is what causes tension, and when it breaks, the result is never good. This sort of stuff should never occur if people are able to talk straight with others, or themselves for that matter. Same goes for being rude and annoying to others. I hope that _this_ does not occur on this thread in the near future again.


----------



## 1. Luftballon

ed: okay, so it might be helpful to read through the last hide first; I think that's the most important part. the context hide is lots of tangentially-relevants after skipping through most of it. useful notes, perhaps -- if the second hide doesn't make sense out of context, it could be worth reading.

this post's ordering is kind of wonky because it was written over the course of, like, three and a half hours and moving around as I wrote it. I'm going to leave that as-is, though.

—

oh, bah, no, wrong turn; I mean, I'm probably just as bad at expressing as phantom thinks itself. (this is why I _don't do this sort of thing_ anymore. it doesn't work very well.) it just happens to be that my express is mostly string together quotes of things well past their expiration dates out of context.

so okay, that probably didn't help at all. before setting about this business of context, a ... disclaimer, I guess? that seems like the wrong word, but: if this, somehow, sounds _even worse_ (I'd hope not) ... um actually I'm not sure what to say.

in chronological order, let's say.



Spoiler: context



[hide=Social History of the Battle for Asber]the battle for asber was kind of a fracas. I'm actually really not sure how it got that way. it started with extensive excitement, I mean, and a lot of, uh, culture, happened. our first forums were here. (is that public information yet? ... no matter, it hasn't been a real secret for a year.)

things started to go wrong. well, more, things started by going wrong. for the first round, I basically wrote up the whole round. I expected it to be seamlessly integrated; there _were_ almost certainly some failure mode, but given that we were conceded private commands, I considered the failure modes I imagined sufficiently obscure and not otherwise useful that they'd need a miracle to imagine them without seeing the commands and they'd be wrong to choose them.

well at least one of those assumptions was wrong. so we abandoned tight integration in favour of loose coupling. I still think that tight integration would have worked better if our commands had stayed private.

somewhere we have a pm from negrek and the original legendary plotting quicktopic indicating that we were betrayed from the beginning ... which is, ah, slightly at odds with the other side's official spiel. (I don't have these on hand, and they probably wouldn't help in any case; but mai could probably dig it out from somewhere.)

we became very suspicious after round ... 7, with the perfectly timed teleport. things going _well_ for the opponents, that can be explained by incorrect balancing. understandable. we figured we could win in the end on the basis of mental attrition, and we called for increased participation. but you just generally don't get that many coincidences in that few rounds. something of a cabal split off and we did our own thing to some extent. the suspicions were voiced. we went through a few rounds of negotiations with negrek as things were shuffled around. the original legendary contenders dropped out, were replaced.

we really were trying to get ... balance. something we could reasonably accept as fair. slightly balanced, at least. an arrangement where a victory wasn't a foregone conclusion. negrek being collusive to some extent was clear, of course, but we figured _justice_ was a goal we could agree on.

things fell apart after that.





Spoiler: On Personal Feuds



that's quite a lot of ... well, it's background on drama. from over a year ago; well past its expiration date. I suppose I can't presume the irrelevance of personal feuds, but year-old ones involving parties that seemingly haven't been around for as long (in part _because_ of these incidents, supposedly).

quite a lovely amount of blame went on after that. on all sides, certainly. insults to intelligence, comparisons to wwii personages, extensive swearing? well, extensive swearing from one side. we tried to avoid it. it _was_ stressful, in retrospect, I'd concur, though; personal attacks do that.





Spoiler: res the douchebag



oh, this one is excellent. if I recall correctly, it occurred subsequent to the addition of players to bfa. there were ... two incidents, I think it was, when someone decided to register with _ridiculous_ pokémon choices. naturally (well, in context), whivit accused me of that. (one of them involved someone preemptively pming me over ... tor or something. I suspect that one _was_ whivit, but, well, no solid evidence ever surfaced around that case.) those incidents were initially worrying, but after negrek agreed that those didn't count, just mildly amusing.

(honeybee snrk)

oh and whivit told me I was a douchebag and started calling me that until we stopped interacting much. (what am I now? an eczema, was it?) the rest of the cabal agreed.





Spoiler: res the evil stalker



well, I made use of some questionably legitimate means of acquiring information. mostly persistent monitoring for access, ip, blah blah I'm not sure what I did. I know it wasn't very efficient, nor very effective. well, slightly effective. res deducing geography became something of an amusement.

as for evil? well.





Spoiler: res the evil bastard



after asb died, our cabal tried to design an asb. an unknown and unacknowledged descendant, you see, a bastard, with bastardfriends.

long words wear down somewhat.





Spoiler: ragealot lump



愛发火团 might be the original form. I'd assume by analogy to the 可愛的bluzzy which 特別可愛.

愛发火 liberally, and we had the impression that 团 is for lumpy things.





Spoiler: I'm obnoxious and disliked (you know that, sir)



oh come on really, that's right up there with abstaining courteously!

I, uh, enjoy musicals. musicals are a major sources of things I enjoy quoting out of context. (most of the rest is allie.)

I actually am obnoxious and disliked by something of a segment, I guess, though.





Spoiler: Du mußt versteh’n!



I'm also something of a fan of, ah, let's call it witchery 101.


[/hide]



The Omskivar said:


> Ugh I hate this sort of thing _and on my birthday too guys :/_
> 
> I'd like to also publicly state that I had _no idea_ that any discussion regarding Phantom in any way was going on, and I have _zero approval_ for it.  It's not okay and it's not friendly and it certainly isn't becoming of someone trying to lead.  I won't go as far as to absolve my help in the project, mostly because I'm barely doing anything as it is and it wouldn't affect anything, but I would like to apologize to Phantom, if not on the behalf of blazhy/res, the on behalf of myself, having been completely ignorant.


ah, I wouldn't say you could be blamed.

(well sorry about your birthday)



The Omskivar said:


> I really don't have any opinions on res that are relevant to the conversation, except that sarcastically calling things "adorable" and inviting further hostilities towards it might not be the way it wants to handle the original hostilities (justified or no, hostilities are what they are).  If it is bad at PR, then it should *learn* instead of using it as a justification for saying/doing whatever it wants without consideration.


well I do generally try to avoid pr-type business. judgment failure, though, sorry.

the "adorable" wasn't sarcasm, though, for the record; I might use "cute" in sarcasm, never "adorable". but no, really, between the camelcasing and the insult, it's adorable! ... maybe it isn't if you're not me. maybe it's context-sensitive.

also I'm just apparently very bad at trying to resolve hostilities: I see the dead horse (well, I identify it as a dead unicorn) and I think it's ridiculous; I attempt to show that it's kind of ridiculous and ... no profit.

actually there are a lot of context problems around here, aren't there.



Spoiler: The Subject of Drama



it's not malice, in case that needs to be cleared up; I'd hope nobody else around here is malicious, either, but I, of course, can't speak for everyone else around here.

since I've lived the context of this incident here and according to what everything above have empathy shortage, I have something of difficulty with what's dramaful here. I'll try, though:

I assume that the cited posts above are being interpreted as mockery.

okay, well, I guess it kind of is, if you're receptive to interpreting it that way. we ... weren't, not so much.

see, we generally want things to go through well; I don't think anyone would say that failure is something we want to aim for; and an abundance of evidence indicates that, well each of us doing its own thing tends to blows up in our face.

so now we generally send out at least initial messages as a collective. and we try to satisfy as much as possible. we try not to offend. (we blew it this time, but. well.) and, well, in seeking to do that, we have to identify what could offend. when we were communicating with negrek, we had terrible things to say of negrek, and _we said them_. we had terrible things to say of sunflower and zora then, and _we said them_. we have terrible things to say of phantom, and, well, as displayed above, _we've said them_. as a rule of thumb, we've said terrible things of everyone we've contacted collectively ever.

and there was no ill will in that, none at all in the general case. perhaps that we need to at all is a failing of our own, that we can't communicate that sort of thing without describing it. but if it is, we do have that failing, and what comes off as speaking of people behind their backs is our means of _compensating_ for it. that's ... how our group dynamic works, I think. taken another way, we try to ... distribute our efforts of communication; and, I might be going off on a limb here, but when communicating with others, one has to take into account those others' triggers and such. possibly there are people who are just naturally good at that sort of thing and can avoid them without being told (I am not aware of any, but, well), but I don't think any of us are of that sort. so we have to tell each other this sort of thing. out of context, it seems like open mockery; to us (to me, at least), it is a thought process manifest.

with that sort of thing going around -- do we seem a hateful lot? I wouldn't expect anyone who hasn't lived through the some year and a half of our thousands (myriads, perhaps even) of posts, the our corpus of _context_, to be able to see that and not judge harshly. that's ... why it's closed. on my part (I can't speak for the others), it's too much effort to explain. it's sensitive content, and exactly the sort of thing we'd most like to explain to people individually. and given it's been such a closed group for so long, I ... well, it would be just as hard, harder, perhaps, to absorb more people. we haven't tried that.

and then for all that we try as hard as we can, this happens and things get taken out of that much context, and everything pops.

so try to understand. and if that doesn't do ... I don't think there's much we can do. maybe someone else can explain it better.

if you can offer advice, though, it's always welcome.​



(and, um, sorry about the birthday.)


----------



## Tailsy

maybe we could have a bake sale to get things going again idk lmao


----------



## 1. Luftballon

also apparently cookies-based read/unreadness is at least noticeably, if not significantly, a cause of inactivity; it's became a pain to tell in the first place where there are unread things anyway and then things vanish off new post/stop looking unread too fast.


----------



## Tailsy

yeah fuck we need to bake more fucking cookies that's the damn problem, you stuuuupid kids!!!


----------



## hopeandjoy

Gosh, Tailsy, I can only bake so fast!


----------



## The Omskivar

Tailsy said:


> yeah fuck we need to bake more fucking cookies that's the damn problem, you stuuuupid kids!!!


_but all we ever have is tea and cod what sort of bake sale are we going to have with those_


----------



## Autumn

i can't bake :(


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## Tailsy

A FUCKING DISGUSTING BAKE SALE, THAT IS WHAT.

I MEAN, WE'RE GOING TO HAVE TO FUND THE BUS FOR THE TRIP TO SECTIONALS SOMEHOW!! who has pot. we'll lace them with pot POT-COD BROWNIES HUP HUP HUP


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## The Omskivar

I don't have pot because we call them toilets here


----------



## Music Dragon

sreservoir, I'll share with you the wisdom of half a lifetime spent on TCoD: though being quirky and indecipherable can be a lot of fun (probably not for anyone else, obviously, but you know), there are times when it helps to be understood by the people you're talking to. I think this is a situation that warrants transparency. Unless you're not actually doing it on purpose, in which case, uh... you should work on that, I guess!

Phantom, I'll share with you the wisdom of the other half lifetime: I think you have legitimate reasons for being upset, but you're just gonna make things worse for yourself (and a lot of other people) by pointing fingers and revealing private messages and pulling other people into all this drama and generally being very melodramatic in public. Sarcasm and hostility lead nowhere. Try to stay cool and level-headed (good advice in virtually any situation, if I may say so myself), then confront the people who've hurt you and talk it out with them, or just ignore them if they can't be reasoned with (though really, most people can be). Emotions aren't always easy to contain, but trust me, act calm and mature and I guarantee* you'll come out on top literally every single time.

Tailsy, I'll share with you the wisdom of the past few minutes: now that I've refreshed the thread and seen all these new posts, I'm kinda just going to sit the rest of this one out on the sidelines and let you do the "light-hearted banter to avert drama" thing. Maybe throw in a hilariously appropriate GIF for good measure. Keep up the good work!

*Not a legally binding statement.


----------



## 1. Luftballon

Tailsy said:


> yeah fuck we need to bake more fucking cookies that's the damn problem, you stuuuupid kids!!!


bah, that, well, of course, but my point was more that we need to bake _smaller_ cookies. smaller, and more of them, and we can keep more in the oven so that they'll be nice and warm when we take them out!


----------



## Tailsy

Music Dragon said:


> Tailsy, I'll share with you the wisdom of the past few minutes: now that I've refreshed the thread and seen all these new posts, I'm kinda just going to sit the rest of this one out on the sidelines and let you do the "light-hearted banter to avert drama" thing. Maybe throw in a hilariously appropriate GIF for good measure. Keep up the good work!


presses hand to your face (your entire face). i have taken the lessons, and now i am graduating from the light-hearted banter program. i can only hope you are proud of me.

in other news, I DON'T MEAN TOILETS toilet brownies would be terrible. unless you're making toilets out of modelling chocolate and just putting them ON the brownies, which would be sort of cute.


----------



## hopeandjoy

Cute, but if they were chocolate no one would buy them. Come on guys, at least try!


----------



## blazheirio889

Right, I'm kind of at work which starts in a few minutes, so I only had time to skim the messages and I'll have to make this brief. But I want to make it clear that the main point of PMing Phantom was to reduce hostility towards people running ASB because if no-one trusts the running team, how is the place going to work? Of course, it seems to have backfired horribly, but it was hardly plotting to cover our asses - I only asked for the opinions of others and, when I didn't really get a yes or no, went ahead and sent the PM. Since it concerned the running team, or a large portion of it, I figured they'd want to see what was being said, but in the next PM Phantom emphasized the private nature of the messages so I stopped there. There seems to be a negative impression of us stemming from BfA and the reasons behind what happened never fully came to light. However, if we posted a thread attempting to clarify things, that would just stir up events long past and probably a whole lot of drama besides. After seeing Phantom's posts, I decided to ask just her, one person, her impression of what happened, to minimize drama... again, which seems to have backfired horribly.

I really apologize for speaking to you in that forum that way, Phantom, and I'm not going to make excuses for that. I'd just like if you could understand that the drama from BfA took a huge toll on us and we're tired of being misunderstood and mistrusted because of it. Whenever those things resurface, we tend to be very snappish about it.


----------



## Phantom

ultraviolet said:


> Perhaps I'm overstepping my lines here, but I personally am very uncomfortable with the idea that those who were I guess _centrally involved_ with the drama and subsequent shutting down of The Battle of Asber - whoever's _fault _it was - are now those who are in charge of restoring it, and I am sure I'm not alone here. I am also probably not alone in feeling uncomfortable that someone who declares itself to be "an evil douchebag bastard stalker" and "obnoxious and disliked" is possibly going to be in charge of something that is important to a lot of members and formed a core part of this forum's activity (which is what this thread was actually about, if anyone remembers). Whether this is a 'personal feud' between res and other forum members or not, it is ultimately tied into a major source of conflict within the old ASB, and is certainly relevant to the new one. I am not interested in seeing a new ASB fail because of various 'personal feuds'.
> 
> I suppose now is a good time to say that I did not know the discussion about Phantom was happening (I was also not part of The Battle of Asber drama, I didn't even join in), because majority of the forum was hidden from me, and that I do not support or appreciate the kind of behavior that has taken place. Whether or not Phantom was the intended audience, openly gossiping about and mocking a member of the forums is really not the kind of behavior you really want to see from anyone with authority, like an ASB moderator? And the fact that more of this behavior keeps being pulled up from a variety of sources does not really do much to help. Whether you are 'no good at PR' or not, you do need to kind of not be a douchebag if you're going to head ASB, if only because it also goes against the general grain of the forums.



uv said it better than I ever could. I agree and hold similar viewpoint.


----------



## Negrek

Well, I had been preparing a quite long, carefully-worded post explaining how I saw the situation and the reasons for my decision, but I got tired of having to use politician-speak to avoid naming names or otherwise blowing the drama open wider. So I'll try to cut things down to something candid and succinct:

I do not like the fact that several of the current ASB moderators were heavily involved with the drama that ultimately closed the league down in the first place. If I had to guess, I like it far, far less than general-you do. When I agreed to hand the reins over to them, I made a bad choice because I did not see any good choices in front of me, and so I picked the option that I thought was most likely to lead, eventually, to a stable and functioning league.

Ultimately, I asked whether anyone was interested in taking over the administration of the league. These are the people that answered. The choice was not exactly "them or no one," but it was damn close.

The way the current group of ASB moderators has handled things does not inspire confidence in their ability to oversee the league, and I agree that the behavior of sreservoir and blazheirio889 in the posts presented is pretty damn awful. I remain unsure what to do about it.

I apologize to the people who are uninvolved with, and probably largely unaware of, all of the drama and who would really just like to play some ASB already. This is definitely a case where a very small number of people are ruining things for everyone else. I also have to apologize to some of the new ASB moderators: some of you have next to nothing to do with this issue and have just gotten dragged into it as a result of your position.

One way or another, I believe that a new ASB league, under _any_ leadership, is in great danger of being taken down by these "personal issues." A lot of people have been hurt, in one way or another, by the fallout of all this drama, and I do not foresee the various people involved being able to reconcile their differences, either. I have tried to restrict the number of people it affected as much as possible by handling it in private as much as possible, but it's looking increasingly like the only way this is going to get resolved is by letting it play out and deciding how to proceed after people have gotten things out of their systems.


----------



## blazheirio889

At this point I'd like to apologize again. The scathing posts towards Phantom were born out of exhausted irritation from having the BfA drama stirred up again, and again (irritation is putting it quite mildly, really). Directing these frustrations at her was an asshole-ish thing to do, and contrary to what the posts presented may indicate, I bear no malice towards her, except for maybe bringing up BfA again - but when people don't understand what happened, I guess it's unavoidable for things to keep coming to the surface. At this point I'm unsure whether to just... continue to try to keep things private, or explain them, or /what/, because no matter what it seems like drama keeps popping up. 

At any rate, while apologies are important and all, that's not the main point of this post. As I said earlier, it's vital for leaders to be respected or at least not blatantly disliked by the community they're leading. Unfortunately, it seems res and I are headed towards the "blatantly disliked" section, and as such we've agreed that since ASB is a community thing, we'll step down if the community thinks it will be for the greater good. When Negrek asked if anyone wanted to take over the league, practically no-one else but us stepped up. However, as indicated by this thread, there are people willing to lend a hand, people who were not involved in the heart of the drama. Perhaps then, drama and personal issues will be less relevant and will have less of a chance of bringing the league down.

(as a side note, some people seemed confused about res' bigpost and I can attempt an English-to-English translation about any relevant bits, should anyone require it. Normally I'd just en-en trans it voluntarily, because it does contain context and important explanations, but I'm kind of exhausted (physically /and/ of all this drama) and if no-one's interested, then there's no real point...!)


----------



## kyeugh

Honestly, I think bring back ASB is, well, bringing back ASB.  Perhaps something happened in the past that caused these people not to be the first people for the job (I'm relatively new, so I'm not sure what it is), but hey!  They stepped up to the plate to help with it, and I think that's all we've been asking for since the beginning, isn't it?  Even if person A) doesn't want person B) to work on ASB, tough luck!  They were selected, and whether you like it or not, it seems like the group is at least trying to bring back ASB.  I don't understand what all the big fuss is-- you're getting what you want in the long run anyway, even if it _isn't_ under the management that you would prefer.  When it's all said and done, ASB will be back, and you'll have gotten what you wanted.

Either that, or I'm extremely ignorant and everything I just said was crap and you're going to hate me for it.  Either option is possible.


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## Pook

For me a lot of inactivity has to do with whenever the server is busy

Then I just ask for another waiter


----------



## Superbird

The cookies thing about how read/unread memory is handled is part of why I'm such a lurker now -- when I do get on here, I make sure that I only do so when I have enough time to scour everything that has happened, because if I take more than a 20-minute break I lose track of all the unread posts.


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## shy ♡

Superbird said:


> The cookies thing about how read/unread memory is handled is part of why I'm such a lurker now -- when I do get on here, I make sure that I only do so when I have enough time to scour everything that has happened, because if I take more than a 20-minute break I lose track of all the unread posts.


Same. It's such a pain in the ass, honest. :\


----------



## Music Dragon

To be fair, as far as I can tell, it seems to have fixed the "server busy" messages. Haven't really had that problem since the change anyway.


----------



## shy ♡

Music Dragon said:


> To be fair, as far as I can tell, it seems to have fixed the "server busy" messages. Haven't really had that problem since the change anyway.


No it didn't - I had the problem all the time before Butterfree changed the server.


----------



## Butterfree

The forums are still on the same server. Only the site moved. I do plan to try to move the forums to a new server as well, but I haven't had the chance yet. Whatever you've been noticing, it's not the new server.


----------



## shy ♡

... Oh, well, maybe it has worked then.


----------



## Murkrow

The server hasn't been busy for ages but people still seem to be leaving :(


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## kyeugh

Murkrow said:


> The server hasn't been busy for ages but people still seem to be leaving :(


The plain truth is that this place is dying, and I don't think anything other than ASB can get it out of that, really.  We'll just have to see after ASB starts back up; we can start referring people.  I'm sure some old users will come back for that, and some new people will come just to try it.  If that doesn't work... then this place is pretty much damned, sorry.

(And by damned, I mean we'll be staying with the current company for quite some time.  Most of the new users don't end up sticking around, and they're very few and far between.)


----------



## hopeandjoy

It's been that way for a while though. I can't think of anyone major who's left.

There's no way of knowing when or if we will get a new round of permanent members, but it could still happen.


----------



## surskitty

I think a lot of people are just busy, or aren't seeing much to respond to of interest.  

I haven't really been that inclined to try making new friends of late, and most of the people I like here, I talk to elsewhere, haha.  :/  I check here daily but posting's too much effort.


----------



## RespectTheBlade

It should also be said that the months from february to about may are pretty bad on late high school and college students, and I assume a lot of people on here fall in that category. (I know I do.)


----------



## Phantom

One of the reasons the place is dying is because there's nothing to talk about. There was a little more activity for a while when I was posting new threads, but seriously, it was too much for one person to keep coming up with new threads. If others helped out, just making a thread here and there we might be able to keep the place limping along for a while.


----------



## ultraviolet

personally I don't really understand the desperate need to _save the forums!!!_ when they're not exactly going anywhere? purposefully making new threads just to make discussion at all feels very strained and seems to make the lack of activity more obvious. discussion should be a fairly easy and effortless thing, after all.

i mean yeah it's sad but i guess i came to terms with it ages and ages ago. sometimes communities fall apart! swap contact details with the people you want to talk to and check the forum every couple of days like basically everyone else seems to be doing, i guess? it's not as though the forum URL is going to spontaneously disappear. unless that was Butterfree's plan _the whole time_ to save on server costs!


----------



## Tailsy

maybe ya'll fuckin nerdlords need to come play mafia with us, yo


----------



## Autumn

Tailsy said:


> maybe ya'll fuckin nerdlords need to come play mafia with us, yo


would but cant


----------



## Murkrow

ultraviolet said:


> swap contact details with the people you want to talk to


Some of us are too socially awkward to know how to ask to do this without making ourselves look stupid.

And part of the reason I bumped this thread wasn't just because the forums were inactive, but because a lot of people I would have liked to talk to had been leaving.


----------



## kyeugh

ultraviolet said:


> personally I don't really understand the desperate need to _save the forums!!!_ when they're not exactly going anywhere? purposefully making new threads just to make discussion at all feels very strained and seems to make the lack of activity more obvious. discussion should be a fairly easy and effortless thing, after all.
> 
> i mean yeah it's sad but i guess i came to terms with it ages and ages ago. sometimes communities fall apart! swap contact details with the people you want to talk to and check the forum every couple of days like basically everyone else seems to be doing, i guess? it's not as though the forum URL is going to spontaneously disappear. unless that was Butterfree's plan _the whole time_ to save on server costs!


/nods head in agreement

If this place is going to die, it's going to die.  It's not the lack of communication or there being no threads or anything, it's just that... this place is generally inactive.  Like I said, hopefully ASB will fix that, and bring a bunch of new people in.  But for the time being, this place is basically slated to remain stagnant.  There's not really a need to throw some kind of giant Reconstruction Party; if the forums are going to die, they will; and if not, they won't.


----------



## Mai

Tailsy said:


> maybe ya'll fuckin nerdlords need to come play mafia with us, yo


in agreement with this

and the forums are pretty quiet but being desperate doesn't help, I think - agreeing that things seem to be basically continuing on as it is, save for the mafia forum, which seems to be getting some life back and that's good. Play mafia.


----------



## Murkrow

ultraviolet said:


> purposefully making new threads just to make discussion at all feels very strained and seems to make the lack of activity more obvious.


Also I disagree with this. I don't post much because there aren't many threads I want to reply to. I assume others think the same. I would post if more threads interested me, so I figure making new threads would make it less inactive.


----------



## Phantom

ultraviolet said:


> personally I don't really understand the desperate need to _save the forums!!!_ when they're not exactly going anywhere? purposefully making new threads just to make discussion at all feels very strained and seems to make the lack of activity more obvious. discussion should be a fairly easy and effortless thing, after all.


I disagree with this as well. 

Some of us actually still care about the place, and aren't just going to roll over and let it die without at least putting in some effort to save it. I get that everything has its time, but that doesn't mean that there is nothing we can do to give it a fighting chance.

ASB is one of the only things that could really save it. In the meantime we need to keep the few members we have, and to make it more appealing to new members, and a steady activity rate and places to make conversation are the first steps to doing so. 

I had a handful of people thank me for what I was doing, and activity did go up when I was posting a lot of threads. Even just basic chitchat threads are _something_. 

This sort of giving up attitude isn't going to help at all, in fact, that negative attitude is counterproductive to what the few people that DO still care and that DO want to save it, are trying to do. 

I'm going to start making threads again, and I hope that others join me.

 Also:



Tailsy said:


> maybe ya'll fuckin nerdlords need to come play mafia with us, yo


 You guys keep starting games without me! I like went away for two days and OMG LOOK AT ALL THE MAFIA!


----------



## Tailsy

Then I will start games!!! Maybe. Once my university stuff is all done. (I'm graduating this year!)


----------



## Vipera Magnifica

Phantom said:


> Some of us actually still care about the place, and aren't just going to roll over and let it die without at least putting in some effort to save it. I get that everything has its time, but that doesn't mean that there is nothing we can do to give it a fighting chance.


Yeah, I'm way too invested in this place to just let it die. This is the only semi-active forum that I still frequent. I still compulsively check new posts like every 30 minutes even on fairly inactive days.

Reviving ASB will be important to bringing back activity, but we should also try doing more RPs and mafia games. Maybe after ASB is back, Butterfree can send one of those mass e-mails to encourage old members to return? I see old members pop in every now and then on the visitors list, but few of them post at all.


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## hopeandjoy

The hardest part about RPs is getting people to partcipate. RPs are a commitment and most people here are very busy college and older high school students.


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## Hiikaru

How many new members used to go to roleplays and mafia and ASB? Also in addition to those, I think it seems like new members tend to like forum games (they don't take much commitment, so they're something to do while you test out the forums), so adding more of those could help. It would be nice to have more where there's some kind of actual goal like I Spy. It'd also be nice to have some games besides ASB and Mafia that would interest different groups of people, but I have no idea what.

I don't really mind strained conversation. It's still fun to watch and see what people say! And it adds some point to refreshing the forums, so then I actually exist to see threads and reply if I think of something to say. Also the main reason I don't post or make threads is because I'm not sure if anyone's actually there to reply back, so the threads made just for the sake of making threads help with that. Apparently there are still a lot of people secretly hanging around. Also it's kind of nerve-racking making a thread or post if there aren't many, because it's like you're suddenly in the spotlight.

Also I don't know anyone well enough to trade contact information with! I just kind of watch people talk and sometimes say something about writing or battling. I don't have any good contact information, either. E-mail? Skype? I don't even like Skype.

But, mostly, what else is there to do? It's not very fun just sitting around waiting for a super-engaging discussion to just pop up from nowhere.

I think part of it is also that the main site isn't updated too often, but there's not much we can do about that.


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## Music Dragon

Phantom said:


> Some of us actually still care about the place, and aren't just going to roll over and let it die without at least putting in some effort to save it. I get that everything has its time, but that doesn't mean that there is nothing we can do to give it a fighting chance.
> 
> [...]
> 
> This sort of giving up attitude isn't going to help at all, in fact, that negative attitude is counterproductive to what the few people that DO still care and that DO want to save it, are trying to do.


Hey now! I think it's unfair to imply that people don't care about the forums, or want them to stay alive, just because they're not actively making new threads. I've been around since before I was born again (in 2004 - it's a long story), so I've naturally grown quite attached to the forums and I'd love for there to be a bit more activity around here, but I don't feel like the problem is a lack of threads to post in. I think it's more that there's nothing truly _interesting_ to talk about. It's hard to maintain a conversation if the topic at hand isn't very engaging. The way I remember it, some of our hottest threads over the years have concerned things like sexuality, religion and politics... but after years of arguing with random people on the internet, I imagine one might become sort of jaded, what with these things being pretty personal and all. I think a lot of people just can't be bothered with that kind of stuff anymore.

Most people don't even really "leave" as such; but I guess when you've been hanging out with the same group of people for years, you eventually run out of meaningful things to publicly discuss, and maybe you kind of end up growing close to a handful of members and you talk to them in private about everyday stuff. I think it's a pretty natural progression. Tossing a few icebreakers out there certainly can't hurt, but those longtime members who've stopped posting probably won't come back to talk about, like, shoes or whatever. 

Sometimes you just can't force life back into things. It's like when your pet frog dies, you know? And you try to revive it with an advanced combination of chemistry and neurobiology, and you get it to move around and croak and things? Just like it used to? And you can hold your little Gulliver and pet him and he just stares at you with those cold, dead eyes, and you realize it's not the same? But you keep him around anyway, and you introduce him to all your friends and say "Hello, this is Gulliver, he's my pet frog, he used to be dead but I made him come back!" and they stop being friends with you, but at least you have your pet frog? It's kinda like that, I guess. I think an important lesson to take away from this experience is that if you fall in love with a girl, but she starts going out with a guy who has an actual live pet frog, and you become depressed, and you sit in your room all day clutching your dead pet frog... I forgot where I was going with this.

Something that might possibly attract interest would be a compelling philosophical discussion, I think. We've had some of those throughout the years, it seems like the sort of thing people enjoy. It promotes interaction, since you actually have to respond to each other as opposed to just butting in to tell everyone your favorite mollusk color. That's the sort of thing people could perhaps get invested in. But hell if I can think of anything to talk about. Maybe the ethics of restoring dead animals to life?


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## I liek Squirtles

If you guys need some long running game, we can try rebooting my failed Poké Drama Island. Of course, we'd need people to run it, preferably a group of about five. PDI is really big on the Serebii forums, but it's on hiatus since last year. This is why it would be ideal if various people ran it; that way, someone can write one episode, and a nice rotation could be set up. 

The problem is that some of us never got here and established bonds super quickly that carry over onto email and stuff like that. I joined in 2011, so the forum was already nearing its current hiatus; most of the people I talk to and established bonds with joined around that time. Besides, it's kinda hard to let the fourm go when I'm at (or nearing) the age where many of you guys started contributing a lot to tCoD.


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## RespectTheBlade

It may seem a bit far-fetched (not gonna capitalize on that pun opportunity) but I think something that might work for another sort of forum thing would be some sort of writing contest, perhaps? Or maybe some type of mass collaborative story? (like an RP, but more open for expansive writing and sort of independent of deadlines, which would allow for participation from those who might not be able to keep up with an RP.)

I don't know, just shooting ideas.


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## Murkrow

When I used to frequent Serebii I liked the caption competition that was there. It was forum related since it was usually a "screenshot" of a Pokémon game. We could do something like that here. The only problem is it would go in forum games. I haven't been there for a while so I don't know how active it is, but I can't imagine that section being active would cause the rest of the forum to do so.


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## ultraviolet

Murkrow said:


> When I used to frequent Serebii I liked the caption competition that was there. It was forum related since it was usually a "screenshot" of a Pokémon game. We could do something like that here. The only problem is it would go in forum games. I haven't been there for a while so I don't know how active it is, but I can't imagine that section being active would cause the rest of the forum to do so.


Someone started an I Spy game that went pretty well for a little while, so I don't see why something like this wouldn't work. I like games! they tend to work better at fostering communities than most other things. 



			
				MD said:
			
		

> Something that might possibly attract interest would be a compelling philosophical discussion, I think.


You should start a mathematics-based thread, there are a few math people around still I think!


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## Superbird

RespectTheBlade said:


> Or maybe some type of mass collaborative story? (like an RP, but more open for expansive writing and sort of independent of deadlines, which would allow for participation from those who might not be able to keep up with an RP.)


Small groups on the forum have, as you are probably aware, organized these before. My experience with that is that the group just died because everyone but me either left and gave up, so I used the general premise of what we were planning to write for my own story, and to date I think it's the best novel I've written. While I agree this would be a fun idea, I have to admit that I'm skeptical whether it would work. Deadlines would be shaky because occasionally things just wouldn't happen at all, and while it would be more open to expansive writing, it would also be constrained to following a pre-planned plotline which, unlike an RP, can only really deviate in a few directions, and must then be tied up neatly. Unless, of course, we were to do something wherein people take turns writing chapters, but that would take forever and thus defeat the purpose of using it as an activity boost.

I would totally post in a math-based thread. And I rather like the poké drama island idea -- I don't remember that at all despite being part of it, but it does look fun.


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## Music Dragon

ultraviolet said:


> You should start a mathematics-based thread, there are a few math people around still I think!


Well, you know that's a topic I love talking about, but the problem is that it's... kinda not something you _discuss_, I guess? Most things in mathematics aren't really up for debate. I suppose you could talk about solutions to various problems, or personal feelings about math, but yeah. I dunno.


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## Karousever

I think if we want to provoke discussion we should focus our energies on digging up topics that lots of people can discuss and give input on, math is just sort of...Well a lot of people don't like math, I guess is what I mean. So that's great for those who do but it's only going to attract people who like to (and can) discuss math, as opposed to a subject nearly everybody has an opinion on.

Also I'd have nothing to contribute to a math thread since I'm currently failing Pre-Calculus.


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## 1. Luftballon

surprisingly, there isn't actually a thread quota ...


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## Hiikaru

jaketiger1116 said:


> I think if we want to provoke discussion we should focus our energies on digging up topics that lots of people can discuss and give input on, math is just sort of...Well a lot of people don't like math, I guess is what I mean. So that's great for those who do but it's only going to attract people who like to (and can) discuss math, as opposed to a subject nearly everybody has an opinion on.
> 
> Also I'd have nothing to contribute to a math thread since I'm currently failing Pre-Calculus.


You don't have to like math to talk about it! You could also complain about it or get help. And you could argue about not liking it! It could be like "math is boring and I don't get why we have to learn it in school!" "But what about shopping?! Or... balancing a check book?!" "Okay shopping math has nothing to do with pre-calculus, also, what even is balancing a check book." "Nooo shopping isn't why you learn math, you learn it because it's awesome." "No it's not, it's boring!" "But what about hexaflexagons! Wait have you never seen the hexaflexagon videos look look look. _Also_ chicken nugget math." "... why would you put math into chicken nuggets that's horrible." "Why not?!"

Also yeah like res said we're not stuck to a certain number of threads.

Also math just keeps going! You can talk about math _forever_. Like if you do "what's your favourite colour?" sure, maybe everyone has a favourite colour, but once they all say one it's over! Whereas people will keep running into math and getting annoyed by math and getting excited by math _forever_.

(doesn't failing pre-calculus give you any opinions? I'd have lots of opinions about that. Also, questions.)

I'm not sure why we need to sit around talking about a math thread, let's just have one. (The real problem isn't interest but whether it should be about math or maths.)


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## Karousever

My point didn't really come out the way I wanted it to, what I was trying to get at is that in the interest of boosting discussion you could try the sorts of topics that almost everybody has opinions on (hopefully aggressive opinions!), etc etc. Though I guess Hiikaru makes it sound like math could do just that XD

But myself, all I can say about math is I'm failing it. I have no need or interest in saying more :P


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## Sandstone-Shadow

The nice thing about threads is not everybody has to be interested in all of them! The worst that can happen is the thread dies. It doesn't need to cater to everyone specifically.


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## Kung Fu Ferret

Yeah... This forum is pretty much dead. Sad but true. I think we need to recruit new members. Any ideas as to how?


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## Skoonk

Kung Fu Ferret said:


> Yeah... This forum is pretty much dead. Sad but true. I think we need to recruit new members. Any ideas as to how?


Getting the forums name out there might help a bit. One way of doing this might be to add another series to the forums instead of leaving it as just Pokemon. I know that this site has a bunch of other sibling sites and all of that jazz, but it seems that sticking to one thing isn't going very well. Perhaps if the site expanded to another game series, that might influence those fans to come here and tell their Pokemon/new game loving friends to as well. This doesn't mean the forum should just abandon Pokemon, but instead not isolate itself to just Pokemon


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## Autumn

this has been around since 2002. everything dies eventually, i don't get why it's crucial that we get attention


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## Butterfree

Derpy Mage said:


> Getting the forums name out there might help a bit. One way of doing this might be to add another series to the forums instead of leaving it as just Pokemon. I know that this site has a bunch of other sibling sites and all of that jazz, but it seems that sticking to one thing isn't going very well. Perhaps if the site expanded to another game series, that might influence those fans to come here and tell their Pokemon/new game loving friends to as well. This doesn't mean the forum should just abandon Pokemon, but instead not isolate itself to just Pokemon


People can already discuss non-Pokémon stuff here; it's not "isolating itself to just Pokémon". People who aren't Pokémon fans at all have no reason to come here, no, but the number of Pokémon fans in the world is clearly not the bottleneck keeping this forum from being the most popular forum in the world.

Also consider how this forum is attached to a Pokémon website, as opposed to a Pokémon-and-something-else website, and refer to my FAQ entry on why it would make no sense whatsoever to turn my site into a Pokémon-and-something-else website.

I honestly don't give a damn how active my forums are. I'm as sad as anyone to see a once-lively community drift apart, and I'd be thrilled if we managed to revive it organically, but desperate marketing stunts to get more people here are not something I'm even remotely interested in. You're free to go and promote it however you want if you think it'll help, but I'm not going to pull something like changing the theme of the forums.


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## Skoonk

Butterfree said:


> People can already discuss non-Pokémon stuff here; it's not "isolating itself to just Pokémon". People who aren't Pokémon fans at all have no reason to come here, no, but the number of Pokémon fans in the world is clearly not the bottleneck keeping this forum from being the most popular forum in the world.
> 
> Also consider how this forum is attached to a Pokémon website, as opposed to a Pokémon-and-something-else website, and refer to my FAQ entry on why it would make no sense whatsoever to turn my site into a Pokémon-and-something-else website.
> 
> I honestly don't give a damn how active my forums are. I'm as sad as anyone to see a once-lively community drift apart, and I'd be thrilled if we managed to revive it organically, but desperate marketing stunts to get more people here are not something I'm even remotely interested in. You're free to go and promote it however you want if you think it'll help, but I'm not going to pull something like changing the theme of the forums.


You make a very clear point on what you think the forum should be, and that point is also a very good one. It really makes sense to just keep the site for Pokemon, so... sorry about that.


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## Vipera Magnifica

The link to the forums isn't featured very prominently on the main page. I'm sure most of the people who visit the main page don't even know that there _is_ a forum if they don't check all the links on the sidebar or see the forums when they Google it.


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## Music Dragon

How much do YouTube ads cost?


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## Phantom

How much do TV ads cost?


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## Butterfree

How much do billboards in Times Square cost?


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## Karousever

Blimps, guys.


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## kyeugh

Better yet, we create a TCoD musical and sell it on Broadway. Fans will be streaming in like minnows on a moldy piece of bread. It's foolproof. It's necessary. It's time.


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## Superbird

Music Dragon said:


> How much do YouTube ads cost?


YouTube ads are paid for by the view, ranging from 10¢ to 30¢ per view, so the overall cost would depend on where you were advertising. To show it to 10,000 people would cost anywhere from $1,000 to $3,000 depending on which type of ad you chose. (1)


Phantom said:


> How much do TV ads cost?


Assuming you've already actually made the ad, a 30-second commercial can range from $100,000 to $500,000 depending on how popular the network/channel is that you're advertising it on. During national events, especially the Super Bowl and the like, they can go up to almost $4 million. (2)


Butterfree said:


> How much do billboards in Times Square cost?


Billboards in general range from $1,000 to $2,500 depending on the city (but not necessarily on the city's population) and, presumably, the company who made the billboard, for one billboard for one month. (3) In Times Square, the scrolling text thing costs ~$1.1 million per year (~$90,000 per month), and the larger pictures/video things cost somewhere between 2 and 4 million dollars per year ($167,000 to $333,000 per month). (4)


jaketiger1116 said:


> Blimps, guys.


$5 million for the blimp, another $5 million for the hangar, around $800 in operating costs per hour, and ~$10,000 in insurance costs. (5)


Majora said:


> Better yet, we create a TCoD musical and sell it on Broadway. Fans will be streaming in like minnows on a moldy piece of bread. It's foolproof. It's necessary. It's time.


It'll cost between $5,000 and $10,000 to get a bunch of equity actors and do a 29-hour reading, which puts us at around $1,500 to $3,000 per 10 hours of rehearsal, which we can put closer to $2,000 per 10 hours. (6) Now, broadway shows usually rehearse for 6-8 weeks (let's assume 6), with each rehearsal lasting around 7 hours, assuming 6 rehearsals a week.(7) That's 6 * 7 * 6 = 252 --> 25.2 * $2000 = a little more than $50,000 to set that up. Throw in some props and other expenses, and I'll estimate it to be around $55,000 total. Now, to actually perform it on broadway is another $5-20 million, which basically sets that $55,000 irrelevant. (6)

So in review, in terms of cost, Blimps > Musical > TV ads > YouTube ads > Billboards. 

Overall, YouTube ads would probably be the most effective in spreading the message to the most people at the least cost. More than one billboard adds up really quickly.


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## Murkrow

Who needs youtube ads when we could just make a youtube video outselves and engineer it to go viral. That way we get publicity AND get money off of the ads. That is obviously the best option and is a 100% flawless plan.


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## Vipera Magnifica

How about we just kidnap the president while claiming to be part of a terrorist organization known as the "Cave of Dragonflies"? Think of all the publicity we would get!


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## Karousever

No one's going to clap for Superbird? I loved that post.

*claps for Superbird*

He deserves it!


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## 1. Luftballon

jaketiger1116 said:


> Blimps, guys.


!!

how much would it cost to build a model hindenburg, put an ad on it, and then have it go all hindenburg

we could recover some of that cost by selling seats on it ofc, surely there are thrill-seekers who'd enjoy it, too


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## RespectTheBlade

Or we could subliminally broadcast the idea of coming to the forums via radio, television, and inconspicuous propaganda leaflets dropped from the conspicuous blimps.


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## Skoonk

You guys think to small. We'll just put screens all over the Dubai Tower with ads for the site on them.


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## Kung Fu Ferret

Derpy Mage said:


> You guys think to small. We'll just put screens all over the Dubai Tower with ads for the site on them.


I was going to suggest social media advertisements (ie: Facebook, Twitter, Instagram, etc)


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