Butterfree
Admin
Website: The Cave of Dragonflies

Well, that was anticlimactic.

[13/11/2011 21:07:04]

AbsentNumeral

I just read through this page and am now simultaneously laughing and facepalming.

[13/11/2011 21:03:15]

Judgement

LOL MADE YOU TEXTWALL. didn't read, my job here is done

[13/11/2011 20:03:49]

Butterfree
Admin
Website: The Cave of Dragonflies

You're really desperate to be uncovering some kind of a grand conspiracy.



The fact is that most people are good people and most things people do are done in good faith. People love to attribute things other people do that they don't like to those people's fundamentally bad nature; it's a known psychological principle called the fundamental attribution error. But in reality, they usually believe they're doing the right thing, just as much as you believe you're doing the right thing.



My mods are not bad people. Can they make poor decisions, act rashly, take out a bad mood on innocent members? Of course. That happens to everyone. People have bad days. People misunderstand things. People just plain make poor judgements sometimes. But they are not systematically evil or oppressive. I've made poor judgements, too. Yeah, I let Furret in after he'd abused far too many chances. Why? Because I liked him, I knew he could be a perfectly nice member when he put his mind to it, and I really wanted to believe he was sincere when he said this time he wasn't going to end up making trouble. Naïve? Sure. Poor judgement. Yeah, probably. Corrupt? Really?



I don't know where you're getting the idea that the members in general feel the mods in general are abusive. I received complaints about one mod a while ago (and subsequently tried to keep an eye on them), and one member left the other day because she thought a mod's post in a debate was rude towards her (which it wasn't to any particular degree; somewhat condescending and irritating in tone, perhaps, but not inflammatory and clearly less so than many other debating posts), but that's it. And seeing as you've given ample evidence for the fact you haven't even been a member of the forums in years, I can't help feeling generally skeptical that you actually have any idea what is going on at the forums right now; I suspect you're just basing this on some nebulous feeling that if you haven't been on a forum in some time, everything must still be the same as when you left. Things change. People change, especially teenagers. And people generally just aren't evil and out to get you.



Incidentally, the name Helen has no significance to me and has just been making you sound silly; if this is yet another thing that has something to do with something that happened in 2005, I've forgotten and whatever it is you're trying to do with it isn't working. And as far as I can remember, Nidokingu left on his own. My memory may be fuzzy on it because he left at least twice; the first time he definitely just deleted his account and then whined about getting re-admined when he came back. Maybe I did de-admin him when we broke up, what with having only admined him in the first place because he insisted he had some God-given right to be an admin because he was my boyfriend. I don't remember, I don't really want to remember because that was a pretty screwed-up time in my life, and it doesn't matter because like I said, there is no reason members should care if I de-admin somebody - even less reason than to care whether I admin somebody.



Also, I don't have a "modding system". Yet again, you keep acting like I have some special, unusual "system" in place for modding people, when I just don't. Some years ago we modded upstanding regulars as a kind of prize for being upstanding regulars even though we didn't really need mods, but again, that was years ago and since then about three people have been modded.



As for the limiting freedom of speech thing: First of all, you can't see infractions, so you have no basis for claiming X got an infraction but Y didn't. And second of all, we make a distinction between attacking a person and attacking an argument, which may be what's confusing you - "That statement is stupid" is not equal to "You're stupid". If you have actual specific examples where a mod clearly flames a member, point it out; don't just stand there going "this happens all the time, really!" with nothing to back it up. Maybe something really did slip under the radar and I'd be glad to hear about it.

[13/11/2011 19:22:43]

Kevin

While this guestbook has nothing to do with music, I'm going to bring this up, simply as the ridiculousness of Justice and this drama is getting boring.



I play Euphonium, sort of. Actually, I have to play the Marching Euphonium for concert band, because my high school's band program is terrible - our only Concert Euphonium is so terrible it can't even be played.



However, auditions for a district's Honor Band (basically, the best players from around the surrounding counties play in an ensemble for a few days), and, because it is more professional than our high school band, I wouldn't be able to use the Marching Euphonium.



Auditions are pretty hard in general, and they make sure they can't see you and you don't say anything. Therefor, I have no way of explaining to them my problem (even if I could, they want the people with the best tone, which I can't do on the instrument because of its issues). So, basically, I'm really scared I wouldn't make it on Euphonium.



There's a couple other options, though.



I could go on Trombone, which I used to play, but I haven't really played it for a few years, and it may be difficult to readjust from valves back to a slide.



Then, there's the option of going on Tuba or Trumpet. Both are valved instruments, like the Euphonium, so the transition would be easier, but they're music is different. Trumpet is on Treble Clef, which I can't read, and Tuba's music is written below the staff, which, because Euphonium's don't go that low, I'm not very comfortable with.



I could always simply rewrite any music I get, slowly, with a composition program I have, so that's not too big of a problem, but I'm risking that they don't give out new music at District Band itself; after auditions, if you made it, you get the music you'll be playing for the actual program, but, sometimes, after you get there, they give you more. I'm worried that, as slow as it is to rewrite music like that, that I wouldn't have enough time to that.



One last thing - they do allow you to audition on two instruments, but no more.



Any input on what I should do is appreciated.

[13/11/2011 19:17:25]

Justice

I've misread "Reversed" as "Received", my bad.



You wanted an example of how your forums limit freedom of speech; go through any old thread that presents argument between mods and banned members, typically you will see the 19-year-old nerdier mod (If not a mod - yet) making statements such as "Your posts show clear lack of intelligence" and when the 13-year-old retaliates with something as simple as "ur stupid", the 13-year-old gets an infraction of 30 for flamming while the mod goes empty handed - When both have said the same thing, just put down differently. This is one mere example out of many, again, don't pretend as if you're forum drama is not linked to your Modding system and as if its the trend in other forums as well

[13/11/2011 18:21:47]

Spunky the Raichu

"Again - You received an infraction that even you felt was unfair, and while you barely post in the forums. Think of what most active forum members must be going through. Or rather; listen. These complaints are nothing new."



What are you even talking about?

[13/11/2011 17:01:44]

Justice

We can easily go the the About Me and copypaste your name but this would kill the whole idea of why we are misspelling it. Try thinking back ;-)



Again - You received an infraction that even you felt was unfair, and while you barely post in the forums. Think of what most active forum members must be going through. Or rather; listen. These complaints are nothing new.



It's not you single-handedly, as we have said, it's your modding system. In other words, the corrupt-by-nature, abusive people you choose to approve the mod power to. You failed in listening to your members' voices as, in your view, they may just want popular members to become mods, but I'd say the mods are choosing the popular members amongst each other, as well.



We all remember what happened when it comes to Nidokingu's case. He was De-adminstrated and in result he left the forums.



Forums having drama the way this one did is not common for sure. If you think this is how forums are generally run, then something has gone horribly wrong.

[13/11/2011 05:57:58]

Amaterasu
Website: Age of War

Hey, I have an idea, let's stop being idiots and fighting over a guestbook. If either of you have something to say to each other's faces, find the other in real life. Nobody really wants to read walls of text, we just wanna have fun and chat here.

[13/11/2011 04:14:52]

Butterfree
Admin
Website: The Cave of Dragonflies

Did you actually want me to be engaging you in some kind of a discussion? I got the impression you were just ranting in the hope of making guestbook viewers see the light and hate me or something. You didn't even address me; it was just a declaration referring to me in the third person with a name that isn't my name and talking about how fascist I am.



But fine, I'll humour you for now.



Most of your 'accusations' honestly aren't worth replying to, because they're so vague as to be meaningless. You keep talking about how dictatorial I am; I genuinely don't have the faintest idea what you're talking about, because as I pointed out, I barely even do anything on the forums. I've given exactly two infractions this year, one of them to ban a member who PMed me to ask to be banned. (I also reversed one infraction that I thought was unfair.) You also imply people are banned "for their views" all the time, but don't give any examples, and again I have no idea what you're talking about. You say the forums are especially uptight about members' behaviour, citing the fact the rules contain rules against things like flaming and mini-modding that are banned on most forums (and they don't have a rule against "bad English", only a guideline saying posts should be decently readable). You say I don't allow people to make mistakes (??), when mine is, I think, the only forum I know of where ban evasion is not actually a bannable offense, exactly because I think people should be able to get a second chance even if they screw up once. You insist my forums have an unusual amount of members being nervous about breaking the rules. You act as if forums having drama is a highly unusual thing. You seem to think I'm some kind of an evil mastermind. All of this just makes me scratch my head; I don't have the vaguest inkling of how you even got to these conclusions. How on earth am I supposed to respond to something that, as far as I can see, has simply been pulled out of thin air?



Other comments you make are just ludicrously outdated, such as the one about Furret and your general obsession with Nidokingu. For the record, I admined him at his insistence, because I was fifteen and stupid and bought his blather about how because we were in a relationship he should get an equal share in the site and forums, and I didn't de-admin him at all because he left the forums on his own - not that that actually makes the complaint valid, because forums aren't democracies and forum admins aren't in positions of power that warrant a democratic process behind them. There is no reason members should have a say in whether a mod becomes an admin; I can see the argument for wanting to have a say in who becomes a mod, maybe, since that could affect them, but an admin doesn't have any more power over members than a mod does, so why should they care? The added power an admin has is the power to vandalize the forums as a whole; the owner of the forums obviously has by far the biggest stake in ensuring admins are trustworthy.



Even then, like I said, forums aren't democracies - I don't think I've ever been to a forum where moddings weren't a matter of the admins (or current mods) just picking out regulars who seem to act responsibly, with no member input. Ultimately forums are a privately owned platform, and a private owner would rather mod people they view as responsible and capable, rather than whoever is most popular among the members. (Not that I've been personally involved with the last couple of moddings beyond just okaying the people that were nominated and voted on by the other mods.) I just run my forums the way forums are generally run, and I have no idea why you're trying to lynch me for it.

[13/11/2011 01:12:30]

Justice

Amaterasu, I'm just as surprised myself. Banning members for their views is rather fashionable across Helen's forums.



Another problem Helen seems to face is her lack of honesty and not only with us but with herself out of all people. Helen, unfortunately, your urge to reply to our accusations is too obvious. As you have done so already, only with the refusal to address us directly in which comes off as a rather try-hard attempt to balance out between Ignoring and replying, it's in our standards to inform you that this is not getting in-tact very well and it's making you seem somewhat desperate in your attempt, and this, Helen, is what we refer to as your politics.



"to deal with people in an opportunistic, manipulative, or devious way." - Dictonary.com



The pressure inflected on members doesn't run by you single handedly. It's in the system your forums operates. It's in your rules and it's in your absolute selectivity with who gets to become a Mod, and it's in your morality, it's in your breath, it's in every trace you make, it's the person that you just are, Helen.



If you want an example, out of the blue - An ethical person wouldn't Administrate a person all of a sudden for being a "your boyfriend", without regard to your members viewpoints, let alone - De-administrate him, out of the blue and with no warning - without regard to the members' viewpoints. Democracy 101.

[12/11/2011 23:56:46]

Butterfree
Admin
Website: The Cave of Dragonflies

It's just some inane ramble about how apparently I DICTATE EVERYTHING on my forums even though all I ever really do on them is read threads and post an average of less than two posts a day. Also he thinks this has something to do with politics. It's too silly and vague to be threatening. In fact, I find it mildly entertaining.

[12/11/2011 23:01:35]

Amaterasu
Website: Age of War

Okay Justice, if you have a problem, I suggest you shove it *insert rant here* and take off. This may seem as offensive, but still, you need to shut it. I haven't even been here all that long and I know you're being a jerk. I'm surprised Butterfree hasn't banned your IP yet.

[12/11/2011 19:42:01]

Justice

we are familiar with your sleazy politics Hely, it was cute when you're 15 but you're too old for such games now



It would be nice if we were inaccurate Helen but if that was the case your forums wouldn't have gone through the so-called drama it did throughout the last 10 years. Everything would've been smooth and A-okay, just like in many other forums. I think you can agree that yours was no where close to such place, our only disagreement? We believe its you that's completely at fault.



If you take a closer look you will see that most drama were centered around particular subjects; Mod Abuse and to what others identified as the "Kool Kids Krew", your forums DID witness a wave of change in the last 3 years, many mods, for starters, are now banned and even demodded which is a good step. However If your forums, or rather, your attitude was absolutely perfect, this place wouldn't have gone through a decade of instability. Better yet, there wouldn't have been major changes such as this one - but only after continuous pressure from members, of course. Remember when you and Nidokingu went as far as to ban topics that fuse drama?



Our only warning is that the so-called wave of change won't last as long as your dictatorial attitude stays where it is.



Allow people to make mistakes - just let the culture of this place grow naturally. How you think you can dictate what this place can or can't be by force is the source to all its problems.



These words are that of many. Go through your forums history and you will see a few topics talking about similar subjects. If not exactly the same subject. You can behave as if such criticism are absolutely inaccurate even though our voices have been echoing within the last 10 years, over and over - Your close-mindedness to criticism evidently proves your arrogance.

[12/11/2011 18:47:52]

Butterfree
Admin
Website: The Cave of Dragonflies

That guy has nothing to say on the current state of the forum, because he obviously hasn't been on it in several years (most egregiously, he still thinks Furret, a member who left years ago, is relevant).

[12/11/2011 18:10:28]

Spunky raichu

"TCoD limits creativity and freedom of thought. More to come later, take care"



…No, it doesn't. This is fact, the only place where I feel free to show others my creativty.

It's a website about pokemon, not 1984.

"Freedom of thought"

Te loca, freedom of thought…

[12/11/2011 16:36:09]

Butterfree
Admin
Website: The Cave of Dragonflies

Lolwut.



I think the most amusing thing about this is how there doesn't seem to be a sentence in it that isn't factually inaccurate in ways that parody themselves.

[12/11/2011 14:59:34]

Justice

It's been a few years, and whenever I think of TCoD, I just imagine what would a country be if Helen was in control? She loves talking about liberalism all across your forums. Her attitude however, in the way she controls the forums from A to Z proves otherwise; until today, she's the most fascist individual I have ever met.



1. The so called "Rules" works as Filtering rather than actual rules. For starters, it literally doesn't let you in if you don't fully read them. I heard this addition is no longer there and I hope that's true, but overall; it dictates what kind of person you MUST be to join the forums, It's hardly about 'rules'. This comes in the degree of 'Warnings' for things such as posting to many emoticons, 'flaming' (30 points?), 'backseat modding', 'bad english', it's almost as if these forums want to be in control of it's image, and it's people, than to just give people to space to be. The number of people banned from the forums simply for being different, is a great indicator. Why is it that other forums are relaxed about how their people behave, unless it gets absolutely serious - while this one pressures people's to the tip of their mind? "Am I saying this right", "is this post in the right forums..", and the constant justification people make after they make a topic, from "I was bored" to "i'm not sure this is in the right place bu i concluded it is because ect", just reflects such pressure.



2. Selectivity in mods. You're modding method is simple: You mod people who are exactly like you. People as uptight and as aggressive and as arrogant as you are. No one would dare think he has the freedom to be himself under this great leadership.



2. Corruption. See; Furret. There's obvious selectivity in who is allowed in the forums, and who isn't.



TCoD limits creativity and freedom of thought. More to come later, take care

[12/11/2011 11:12:27]

Butterfree
Admin
Website: The Cave of Dragonflies

I would make one splash. Just like I didn't make a splash for 3,500,000 because that was less than a month after 3,000,000 and clearly came about because somebody was really bored and spent a few days refreshing the front page incessantly.

[11/11/2011 02:23:07]

Kevin

That was supposed to say "in like 24 hours". I have no idea why Number Lock was off…



That's another thing that bugs me - people who say the only people to use the number pad are accountants and such. I use it all the time - I almost never use the ones above the letters. Even more, I prefer the Enter key over there, for whatever reason.

[11/11/2011 02:17:56]